TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
CRA Meeting and Workshops
Thursday, November 12, 2009
9:00 a.m. CRA
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09:05:30 >>CHAIRMAN GWEN MILLER: Councilwoman Mary Mulhern.
09:05:34 >>MARY MULHERN: This morning we have the honor of a
09:05:38 young woman, Derricka Crawley, a senior at Bayshore
09:05:42 Christian school in Tampa, a member of the mayor's
09:05:48 youth corps, her parents, including her mother Janet,
09:05:50 served in the U.S. Air Force, her father is a command
09:05:55 chief of MacDill Air Force Base, she is student
09:05:58 council vice president, captain of the varsity
09:05:59 cheerleading squad, and volunteers at MacDill Air
09:06:03 Force Base youth center.
09:06:05 Derricka is going to give our invocation this morning.
09:06:08 Please stand for that and remain standing for the
09:06:10 pledge of allegiance.
09:06:11 >> Let us pray.
09:06:20 In the words of Lois avray, Mahatma Gandhi reminded us
09:06:24 it is the action, not the fruit of the action, that is
09:06:24 important. He ask that you do the right thing.
09:06:29 It may not be in our power and it may not be in our
09:06:33 time that there will be any fruit, but that doesn't
09:06:36 mean we stop doing the right thing.
09:06:37 We may never know what results come from our actions.
09:06:41 If we do nothing, there will be no result.
09:06:43 Doing just is easy.
09:06:47 Doing right is often terribly difficult especially when
09:06:50 we take a stand that makes us unpopular.
09:06:57 May we in this room today be motivated to right another
09:07:00 wrong in our world, no matter how large or how small
09:07:05 the action may be.
09:07:06 Grant the members of this meeting the power to make
09:07:08 just and fair decisions.
09:07:10 Allow the actions of the meeting to be fruitful and
09:07:13 benefit the good of this community.
09:07:15 In your name, amen.
09:07:18 (Pledge of Allegiance)
09:07:36 >> That was lovely.
09:07:37 >> Thank you very much.
09:07:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Roll call.
09:07:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
09:07:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
09:07:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:07:47 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
09:07:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
09:07:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:07:51 We turn it over to Mark Huey.
09:07:53 >>MARK HUEY: Economic development administrator.
09:07:56 The first item this morning, we have Miss Van Best, the
09:08:02 chair of the East Tampa revitalization partnership,
09:08:04 community advisory committee there.
09:08:06 It's appropriate that Van is here because probably the
09:08:10 highlight of your agenda is the last item today, which
09:08:14 is the approval of the East Tampa strategic action
09:08:16 plan, which the community has worked very hard to
09:08:21 Van, welcome.
09:08:23 >>> Good morning.
09:08:32 Again I say good morning so I can calm myself down a
09:08:34 little bit.
09:08:35 I'm Evangeline Best, the chairman of the East Tampa
09:08:37 community advisory board.
09:08:40 I come before you, as this is my second term.
09:08:46 As you know the community did reappoint me and I'm very
09:08:50 grateful that they put their trust in me.
09:08:54 One of the things I do want to say to the honorable
09:08:59 Gwen Miller, who is a native of Tampa, and I have known
09:09:04 her a long time, and to the other councilmen.
09:09:07 I want you to just let me talk to you.
09:09:11 I wrote a little speech, but I wanted to just talk to
09:09:13 you about some of the neat things that have happened in
09:09:17 East Tampa.
09:09:21 I want to thank each of you for your wisdom.
09:09:27 And when I contacted you to introduce myself to you, I
09:09:30 hope you see some improvement and encouragement, and
09:09:36 that your guidance did help me.
09:09:39 To Ed Johnson, and Sydney and Michelle, thank you for
09:09:48 allowing me to learn from and with you.
09:09:53 It's been an exciting journey.
09:09:55 We did it.
09:09:57 And I do appreciate your availability, the
09:10:02 accommodation that you offered me and the answers to
09:10:10 the questions I have had, and I have had many.
09:10:12 Allow me to really speak to the most dedicated
09:10:16 committee members that we have had for the last two
09:10:22 They are Rosa Cambridge, Juan Davis, Maxine Woodside,
09:10:25 Robert Blunt, Carrol Marshall, Donald Brookins, Michael
09:10:32 Farmer, and Leeron Benjamin, Sr.
09:10:38 These persons are no longer on the committee, but I
09:10:41 want to tell you, they were awesome.
09:10:47 They wore many times two and three hats, not only
09:10:49 attending every-other-month meetings, but they also
09:10:54 chaired meeting of the standing committees for the East
09:10:58 Tampa community partnership.
09:11:02 We spent many hours with ed and his staff because we
09:11:06 were determined to learn what our role was of the and
09:11:08 so we asked a lot of questions.
09:11:10 We asked them to go and get information for us when we
09:11:15 weren't sure what we were hearing, and they provided
09:11:17 for us.
09:11:18 Now, to the new members that we have.
09:11:23 David Benson, Diane Hart and Michael Kelly.
09:11:28 We have met already twice.
09:11:31 They, too, have come prepared.
09:11:33 They were prompt at their meetings.
09:11:36 They came prepared with their advisory already
09:11:41 They were ready to ask questions especially about the
09:11:44 strategic plan.
09:11:44 They read what we did, at the last meeting when you
09:11:49 were present, but they had additional questions.
09:11:52 And let me just back up for a moment.
09:11:54 I forgot some people, and I don't like doing that.
09:11:58 We do have some current members that will be remaining
09:12:02 on, and they are Molbert Scrivens, Ernest Coney, Jr,
09:12:09 Denise James, Tatiana Denson, William Denson. They too
09:12:14 was a part of the old team and they are transitioning
09:12:16 over. I want to give some kudos to them also.
09:12:20 Now, for our report card.
09:12:24 These are the things that we submit to you.
09:12:27 First of all, there are six completed jobs that we
09:12:34 completed in the past two years.
09:12:36 They are the Seminole Heights park and the landscaping,
09:12:45 over $5,000.
09:12:46 The green park.
09:12:48 The batting cage.
09:12:51 There's a connection stand and repairs.
09:12:53 The sidewalks around three clusters of our schools.
09:12:57 That's one of our proud moments because the community
09:13:00 asked us to have sidewalks for our children to walk
09:13:05 away, to walk home, and be out of the streets.
09:13:08 And we have completed that task.
09:13:11 The 34th street repaving around the Tampa Police
09:13:19 The street paving, 19, 20 and 21st around the Cyrus
09:13:24 green pool.
09:13:25 Rainbow Heights, also, has had resurfacing of phase
09:13:30 That we have completed.
09:13:34 Which is totaling over a million dollars.
09:13:37 And we are very proud that we can say that out of the
09:13:39 budget we did spend over a million dollars in the
09:13:43 Now, how did we do this?
09:13:46 We as a committee, we maintained our monthly meetings
09:13:52 with the East Tampa community group.
09:13:55 We listened to what they said, what the community said,
09:14:00 was the top priority.
09:14:02 We watch you every Thursday, after committee.
09:14:08 If you couldn't come down here and sit with me, please
09:14:11 put it on and let's watch so we can learn, and we can
09:14:15 hear what's being said, not just what Ed is bringing
09:14:21 back to us but we wanted to get a feel for what
09:14:23 direction you wanted us to go into.
09:14:26 We also have a minimum of two-hour meetings with the
09:14:34 community advisory board.
09:14:38 What a were the priorities that came out of this?
09:14:40 One as I just pointed out, the street resurfacing.
09:14:47 One of the things that we learned is that that's a long
09:14:50 process, and we really learned a lot.
09:14:56 We had, with the help of ed getting in touch with
09:14:58 department heads, they came before us, they showed us
09:15:00 how they could evaluate the streets, what was a top
09:15:08 priority, what was a low property, and they came and
09:15:11 told us all that.
09:15:12 Then they told us that first of all we need to try to
09:15:14 spend our money a little wisely, find out where the
09:15:18 city is going to be in these areas, as we looked at the
09:15:20 low areas, and that was the criteria that we used in
09:15:23 terms of matching our funds and the streets that we
09:15:26 chose to use.
09:15:29 As I pointed out earlier, the sidewalks.
09:15:32 It is our pride and joy to know that our children are
09:15:34 off the streets and that they are safe.
09:15:39 One of the things I do want to give you -- would you
09:15:46 pass that out? -- I know that Ed already distributed
09:15:49 this but the reason I point this out to you, this is
09:15:51 the second time a report has appeared in the Florida
09:15:55 sentinel full-page ad that the community could see.
09:16:02 And I really pride myself and say that the community
09:16:06 has a chance to see everything.
09:16:07 Yes, this is mailed out.
09:16:09 Yes, it's distributed at our meeting.
09:16:12 But this is put in the newspaper, and we are very happy
09:16:17 about that.
09:16:27 Some of the other accomplishments that we would like to
09:16:29 address this morning is the housing.
09:16:34 Our rehab program.
09:16:36 We completed 29 houses this year.
09:16:40 And for the past six years, we have completed 119 homes
09:16:46 in East Tampa.
09:16:52 Some of the accomplishments that we have is that the
09:16:56 mayor has appointed a task force that is earmarked to
09:17:00 really sit down with her and some of the other
09:17:03 community leaders and staff in terms of trying to
09:17:07 figure out how we can use funds to directly help
09:17:12 residents in East Tampa in terms of construction.
09:17:18 When we get tasks like that we are very proud of it
09:17:21 because she came up with it and we are now in a meeting
09:17:24 process about it.
09:17:25 One other thing that we did is that we called for the
09:17:31 developers from the quality INN to come meet with the
09:17:35 CAC group and with the president of pines, and they
09:17:43 gave us an update on what they are doing.
09:17:45 But the real outcome of this is that they opened the
09:17:50 door and set up employment to be held -- the screening
09:17:54 process was being done in East Tampa.
09:17:58 They decided that they were going to be doing the
09:18:01 interviewing, CDC of Tampa, and I'm happy to tell you
09:18:06 that we have already confirmed it.
09:18:13 There are going to be three with this company for East
09:18:15 We are hoping for more.
09:18:18 Now, what have you as City Council done?
09:18:23 First of all, as you know, you have approved the
09:18:29 dedication of the 18th Avenue playground to the Al
09:18:35 Barnes playground.
09:18:36 And thank you for that.
09:18:38 But one of the neat things that has also come out of
09:18:41 this is that we had an improvement of over $19,000
09:18:45 improvement of that park through the city, not TIF
09:18:49 funds this time.
09:18:51 The rededication of two community -- lakes.
09:19:01 We are very proud we have two lakes in the name of
09:19:04 Robert coal, Sr., and Robert -- Sr.
09:19:11 This to me sends a notice to the community that there
09:19:13 is some physical improvement that is we all can see day
09:19:15 to day in East Tampa.
09:19:20 Some improvements this year.
09:19:24 At Middleton Sr. high school, they partnered and they
09:19:33 engaged students to do a draft from Middleton to
09:19:43 Sulphur Springs.
09:19:45 What they did in terms of the underground, the students
09:19:47 got in groups and they had a project.
09:19:53 The team that was most active in how you were going to
09:19:59 hire, things of this nature, they did get a
09:20:02 This group did come before the ETCRB and presented the
09:20:06 project to us, because it's one thing for them to be
09:20:08 doing it at school but we want the community to know
09:20:11 our students are learning and they are doing some neat
09:20:15 One other thing I would like to point out about
09:20:17 Middleton is that the new principal, Mr. Young, he has
09:20:20 come to our meetings, he's made himself known to us,
09:20:25 and he keeps saying to the community, "I need your
09:20:29 As a matter of fact, some of you were present when he
09:20:31 came to our workshop, and he told me to tell you he
09:20:35 still extends the invitation to you at any time, you
09:20:38 are welcome to stop by.
09:20:40 One of the major improvements he wanted the public to
09:20:43 know, since school opened, there has not been but one
09:20:52 behavior problem, not a major problem.
09:20:54 I want you to hear that again.
09:20:56 And that says that we are on the turn of moving forward
09:21:00 at Middleton.
09:21:02 Some other activities I would like to point out to you.
09:21:05 Some of you did attend what we call the meet and greet,
09:21:10 that we had a reception just for our association
09:21:14 Why did we do this?
09:21:15 Because we really as a committee wanted them to know we
09:21:19 listened to you.
09:21:20 Some of you were present.
09:21:21 And if you noticed they told us what they wanted.
09:21:24 And what did you and I do?
09:21:26 We listened.
09:21:27 And we are just trying to make sure they know we want
09:21:32 to the hear what you are saying.
09:21:33 More than ten of these association presidents, were
09:21:38 present, and we feel that was a proclamation for us.
09:21:41 We also had a job fair because of the economic
09:21:48 We wanted to really try to identify those that are in
09:21:55 We are trying to work that in to spread it to the other
09:21:58 agencies that are doing that.
09:22:00 We had over 500 persons to show up so we know that
09:22:04 there's a need for jobs in East Tampa.
09:22:13 He coordinated that under the economic development
09:22:15 We also had what we call making sure for public safety.
09:22:23 Again it was a great turnout.
09:22:26 We had what we call the annual welcome new teacher
09:22:30 Some of you attended that.
09:22:32 And why do we do that?
09:22:34 Because we really wants our teachers to know, we do
09:22:37 welcome them.
09:22:40 We invite them.
09:22:41 At the same time we provide them with resources, how to
09:22:44 navigate East Tampa, where do you go to find help,
09:22:49 where do you go to get coded? Because if you don't
09:22:51 know where there are these things you say we don't have
09:22:56 them in East Tampa, but we know they are there.
09:22:59 We also have the annual survivor day, and that's an
09:23:04 event that covers everything.
09:23:05 It's an all-day event.
09:23:08 We do everything there.
09:23:10 But again it was a big turnout there.
09:23:14 Lastly, we had what we call the tree lighting, the
09:23:20 giveaways that was donated, and children in East Tampa
09:23:27 benefited from it.
09:23:28 I also want to invite you this year in December.
09:23:32 So you are welcome and I know you already have your
09:23:34 invitation through miss Denise James.
09:23:39 I can't say enough about the neighborhood association
09:23:45 and the crime watch group's coordinators.
09:23:49 In my mind, they make the difference in East Tampa.
09:23:53 They really make the difference.
09:23:55 When we call upon them, they are having their monthly
09:24:02 They make certain they come to our meetings, and they
09:24:05 take the information back and forth.
09:24:06 So I just can't say enough.
09:24:08 And I do want to give kudos to those presidents and
09:24:14 watch group persons.
09:24:15 So of the special opportunities that we dedicated from,
09:24:21 we did a bus trip to Sarasota, and we had an
09:24:26 opportunity to visit with Lorna, one of our friends,
09:24:33 and we shared, and see how it works and ours, and we
09:24:40 saw a lot of things, and we compared, and we are going
09:24:45 to continue that type of dialogue and continue meeting.
09:24:52 Some of us go to the state CRA in Sarasota -- or in
09:24:57 That again we were able to meet new persons, get a lot
09:25:00 of material that we brought back to the other committee
09:25:03 members, and we are going to be sharing.
09:25:07 We also attended the USF community engagement.
09:25:15 I want you to know that this morning I'm very pleased
09:25:18 to be standing before you to say it's been a long haul
09:25:23 in terms of the strategic plan.
09:25:26 We are the first to say that.
09:25:28 Sometimes we got a little anxious and what's going over
09:25:32 there with those people, why we can't get some results
09:25:35 or whatever.
09:25:35 But I stand before you, I'm very happy to say.
09:25:43 We have been seeing what's going on, the East Tampa
09:25:52 community partnership.
09:25:53 And on this past Tuesday, with 66 persons present, I
09:25:59 can tell you, for our first beginning year, that was
09:26:05 one of the things that was on the agenda, and they
09:26:07 approved the strategic plan.
09:26:11 I want you to know that I'm very grateful to be able to
09:26:14 stand before you for this opportunity to share with you
09:26:16 some of the good things that's happening in East Tampa.
09:26:20 And I just want to say thank you again.
09:26:22 If you have any questions, I'll be here.
09:26:24 Thank you.
09:26:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Any questions by council members?
09:26:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
09:26:30 You have the largest, the most complicated, the
09:26:32 greatest number of moving parts in terms of
09:26:35 organization, CRA district, of any of them.
09:26:37 And you have been an amazing leader, and we are all
09:26:41 grateful to you.
09:26:42 Because if you hadn't stuck with it through all of it,
09:26:45 I don't know if it would have gotten done as thoroughly
09:26:48 and conscientiously and inclusively.
09:26:52 So thank you. Thank you for everything you have done,
09:26:55 for your community, for our community. Keep taking
09:27:00 your iron pills because you are just a wonderful
09:27:02 >>> Thank you.
09:27:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thanks for all you do and your
09:27:07 enthusiasm is definitely contagious.
09:27:10 I'm curious, the last time we were at your community
09:27:14 meeting, a couple of women stood up and talked about
09:27:18 community gardens, and that definitely was exciting
09:27:22 news to several of us who are excited about community
09:27:26 Has there been any follow-up?
09:27:28 >>> Yes, it has been.
09:27:31 They are providing I think setting up for a nonprofit.
09:27:36 Those two ladies have gone.
09:27:38 As a matter of fact, they are even going to be in
09:27:41 partnership with USF.
09:27:43 They were at the meeting.
09:27:45 This is just beginning to move up.
09:27:47 They are really moving it.
09:27:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I know eventually they said they
09:27:52 were going to approach your CAC.
09:27:54 >>> They are not ready yet, but they are informed.
09:27:59 They are talking to ed and he's given them step by
09:28:03 But they are trying to get interested persons.
09:28:08 They have done a lot of surveys, giving out flyers,
09:28:11 trying to see who is really interested so they are at
09:28:14 that stage right now.
09:28:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Great.
09:28:16 Because when you get to that point and you guys are
09:28:18 supportive, I think we ought to be as well, and you
09:28:20 will keep us posted on that.
09:28:22 >>> Sure.
09:28:23 >>GWEN MILLER: I have to say every time I see you we
09:28:26 I don't have to tell what you a great job you are
09:28:29 Reverend Scott.
09:28:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me just echo all the comments of
09:28:34 all the other board members, not only to what you have
09:28:36 done, but also the prior board, going back to those who
09:28:41 really got started early on, and those persons who are
09:28:44 going off, that you recognize those persons that are no
09:28:49 longer serving.
09:28:50 >>> No, but I sure would love to have that happen.
09:28:52 >> I guess I would like to also ask if we can -- I
09:28:59 don't know, do we make presentation?
09:29:03 City Council always gives a commendation.
09:29:05 I thought maybe we could do something.
09:29:07 So I will move that we recognize those who have served.
09:29:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:29:13 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
09:29:15 All in favor?
09:29:17 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to thank you in
09:29:21 particular because I know, the East Tampa CAC board,
09:29:26 because I know how much time they put into it.
09:29:28 And it's incredible in this city and especially in East
09:29:33 Tampa how much volunteer time our citizens are putting
09:29:38 in to this in our CRA districts.
09:29:41 And I don't know.
09:29:42 People in the -- if people in the public realize it,
09:29:47 but it's a thankless job at times, I know.
09:29:52 It's difficult to have to juggle all the different
09:29:57 hopes and interests of all the people and
09:29:59 But you're doing it without getting paid.
09:30:01 And we realize that and we appreciate it.
09:30:04 Thank you.
09:30:05 You're doing a great job.
09:30:06 >>> Thank you.
09:30:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Before you come up, I would like to do
09:30:11 a presentation.
09:30:13 Council members and public in the audience, I would
09:30:15 like for you to help us to welcome students from mount
09:30:19 pleasant, the school's history class, Mr. Riviera,
09:30:27 They wanted to come down and see City Council and polo
09:30:30 ticks in action.
09:30:32 Would you all please stand?
09:30:34 [ Applause ]
09:30:40 Would you like to say something?
09:30:44 >>> Good morning.
09:30:53 My name is David Dempsey, the school resource for mount
09:30:57 pleasant middle school.
09:30:59 And we would like to say that we are proud to be here
09:31:05 And Mr. Rivera is our history teacher for mount
09:31:10 >>> Good morning.
09:31:17 I wasn't expecting to come up here and make a speech,
09:31:20 but I am the history teacher.
09:31:22 It's an honor and pleasure to be the history teacher.
09:31:28 Now more than ever history is very important.
09:31:31 I believe history is truly an important subject with
09:31:33 the changes going on in our world today.
09:31:35 My goal is to always create an impact on our children,
09:31:38 because I believe they are going to leave a part of
09:31:44 history before they leave this earth.
09:31:45 So my goal is to impact my students.
09:31:47 And that's my focus today in being here.
09:31:50 Thank you.
09:31:50 >>GWEN MILLER: I hope you have a very productive and
09:31:55 enjoyable stay while you are here but before you leave
09:31:58 make sure they go to my office and see my legislative
09:32:01 aide Libby.
09:32:02 She has some nice gifts for them.
09:32:04 Make sure they get them before they leave.
09:32:06 I would like to thank you for bringing them down.
09:32:08 Whenever you want to come, just let us know.
09:32:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Madam Chair.
09:32:21 I would like to recognize today councilman Charlie
09:32:25 Miranda had a birthday on November 1st.
09:32:28 So we want to say happy birthday to him.
09:32:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 39!
09:32:36 [ Laughter ]
09:32:37 >> The second thing is he was inducted into the
09:32:39 Jefferson high school Hall of Fame last week.
09:32:42 So we want to recognize him.
09:32:47 [ Applause ]
09:32:49 And congratulations.
09:33:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I wanted to thank Mr. Rivera and
09:33:10 Mr. Denham.
09:33:12 I used to teach middle school, seventh graders.
09:33:17 These are sixth graders?
09:33:20 Wow, they are big.
09:33:21 I know middle school can be a challenge but I also
09:33:23 found it to be tremendously rewarding because in middle
09:33:25 school, they are so excited about learning and the
09:33:29 opportunity that faces them.
09:33:33 By high school they get a little jaded.
09:33:35 So you have a great opportunity there.
09:33:36 And children, listen to your teacher, okay.
09:33:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Huey, you may come back.
09:33:43 >>MARK HUEY: I'm wondering, in light of miss best's
09:33:52 presentation to you, the last item on your agenda this
09:33:55 morning, item number 10, is approval of the strategic
09:33:58 action plan.
09:34:00 And I'm wondering, in case she might not be able to be
09:34:02 here for the entire meeting, if we could handle that
09:34:06 out of order this morning.
09:34:06 >>GWEN MILLER: It's fine with us.
09:34:09 You may go to that item now.
09:34:10 >>MARK HUEY: Okay.
09:34:12 I'll just say before you receive any public comments
09:34:15 that we provided to you a complete copy of the plan in
09:34:19 its final form.
09:34:20 It includes modifications since the draft that was sent
09:34:25 to you, and we sent you a separate document that
09:34:29 cross-references the changes that were made tots
09:34:32 They were important changes.
09:34:34 But they did not change materially the basic direction
09:34:37 and recommendation of the plan.
09:34:40 So with that, staff would certainly recommend that you
09:34:44 move forward in approving the plan, especially with the
09:34:49 very committed support of the community.
09:34:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Public comments first?
09:34:57 We will now go to the public.
09:34:59 If you have any comments please come up and speak.
09:35:01 You have three minutes.
09:35:03 Anyone in the public that would like to speak, please
09:35:04 come up.
09:35:11 Al Davis: Good morning.
09:35:19 I'm Al Davis from the East Tampa CRA community.
09:35:28 I would like to inquire, the board received
09:35:33 communications addressed to them and to --
09:35:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
09:35:39 >>> Very well.
09:35:44 Then hopefully the council will give it due
09:35:48 And I reserve my other minutes for a later time.
09:35:52 Thank you.
09:35:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else like to speak?
09:36:00 Reverend Scott.
09:36:00 >> Just a couple questions and then I am going to move
09:36:04 this plan.
09:36:07 At our last public meeting, also in East Tampa a few
09:36:12 weeks ago relative to the plan, there were some issues
09:36:14 raised about the baseball field, $50,000.
09:36:26 >>> Ed Johnson, East Tampa urban development manager.
09:36:29 Yes, councilman Scott, we addressed the issue with the
09:36:34 funding that was set aside for the improvements at
09:36:38 Cyrus green community center.
09:36:40 I know, as I reported last time, the comments that were
09:36:45 around use of the dollars for Belmont Heights little
09:36:48 league, and I reported to you that the dollars had to
09:36:51 be put into funding for Cyrus green, to include the
09:36:55 whole total Cyrus green complex, not just individually
09:36:58 for the little league, that has been shared with the
09:37:02 group, and they understand.
09:37:05 We are moving forward with spending additional dollars
09:37:08 in the Cyrus green complex next to the little league
09:37:13 concession stand to take care of issues like the
09:37:16 parking lot, which needs regrading, and the bleachers
09:37:19 that need to be replaced.
09:37:20 That will all be handled here shortly.
09:37:23 >> Thank you.
09:37:25 Madam Chair, I will say again, I want to say thanks to
09:37:30 Ed and to again the East Tampa advisory board, all of
09:37:36 those that work on this plan.
09:37:38 Those that can't see it, they need to drive down MLK
09:37:42 and see some of the beautification that's gone on, at
09:37:45 34th street, at some things that are happening,
09:37:47 that I am very pleased with it.
09:37:51 There are some things that are happening.
09:37:52 And of course we still have a long way to go, but
09:37:56 that's some things that happened to us, some
09:37:59 improvements taking place, and it's just good to see
09:38:02 that, and I'm excited that we have a plan in place here
09:38:05 So Madam Chair, I want to move to approve this
09:38:07 strategic plan.
09:38:08 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
09:38:11 Question on the motion, Ms. Saul-Sena.
09:38:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Great plan.
09:38:14 Real small issue.
09:38:16 In the discussion of making bicycling safer in East
09:38:20 Tampa, it says recommendation to implement a pedestrian
09:38:26 I think that's a great idea.
09:38:28 I think that you should also look at bicycles as
09:38:31 commuting as part of that plan.
09:38:33 It's one of the bullet points under bicycle and
09:38:36 pedestrian activity, page 28, in the right upper --
09:38:41 left hand column.
09:38:46 There is a commitment in here to using the greenways
09:38:50 and trails plan for looking at bicycle improvements.
09:38:53 But bicycle improvements and greenways and trails,
09:38:57 that's about recreational uses, which I certainly
09:39:00 support, but in East Tampa, as well as city-wide, we
09:39:03 need to use bicycles for commuting, also.
09:39:06 And we need to make things safer.
09:39:08 So under the bullet point, it's not a bullet exactly.
09:39:12 It's kind of a square star shape, with the CRA wide
09:39:19 pedestrian plan study, I think as long as you are doing
09:39:21 that you should look at bicycles as commuting to, and
09:39:24 blend that in, as long as you are paying some
09:39:26 transportation people to look at it, put that in there,
09:39:29 And secondly, the bullet thing underneath it says
09:39:32 incorporate bike lanes, $25,000 per mile.
09:39:35 I think that's crazy.
09:39:36 Because what we are really talking about is striping,
09:39:40 And that is $25 thousand a mile.
09:39:45 I think that's a highly inflated price.
09:39:47 I think that number is enough to make everybody go, oh,
09:39:51 my God, we can't afford it.
09:39:53 I think it's a question of thinking more strategically
09:39:56 about how to create bike lanes and doing the restriping
09:40:00 as we do the maintenance on the roads.
09:40:02 So in both those cases if we could make those tiny,
09:40:06 tiny tweaks.
09:40:07 And I don't know.
09:40:10 It's just as you are planning, bicycles for commuting.
09:40:15 I think that's an important distinction.
09:40:17 By the way, Tampa just got -- there's this nationwide
09:40:22 study called mean streets about people, cities with,
09:40:27 the safest and least safe bicycle pedestrian
09:40:30 And we are at the top of the least column, and in the
09:40:36 last six years St. Petersburg right next to us went to
09:40:41 the top with Madison in terms of safety, and that's
09:40:44 because they spent a lot of money on this.
09:40:47 And they made at priority.
09:40:48 They spent $34 million which in terms of what we spend
09:40:51 on transportation is not an enormous amount.
09:40:54 We all as council and CRA board are going to be looking
09:40:57 at our capital CIT money for the next five years.
09:41:03 And if we prioritize bicycle safety, bicycles for
09:41:07 commuting, pedestrian safety, we can really change our
09:41:10 status from a dangerous place to a safe place.
09:41:13 >> Good observations.
09:41:16 And we can integrate those.
09:41:18 And I think most of you, we did a presentation on the
09:41:23 22nd street plan in East Tampa, which is the most
09:41:26 significant infrastructure improvement the CRA has
09:41:30 undertaken in East Tampa, and that includes bicycle
09:41:34 So we certainly agree with the points that you are
09:41:38 >> And just one last thing.
09:41:41 Maybe we could have Mr. Johnson or whoever just address
09:41:44 the light rail component in the plan.
09:41:46 I think that's very important.
09:41:50 To have East Tampa talk about light rail, and this
09:41:53 light rail part of the plan for East Tampa.
09:41:56 I have been trying to express that.
09:41:57 If you can just take a minute just to highlight that,
09:42:00 for those who are watching.
09:42:02 That would be very good.
09:42:03 >>MARK HUEY: If you go back to page ten in the plan --
09:42:14 and it's actually been a part of the study process
09:42:18 since the first day -- but if you look at really what
09:42:22 we have tried to include as a summary page, it's called
09:42:26 East Tampa's strategic action plan at a glance.
09:42:28 And if you look at strategy number 5, you will see the
09:42:38 significant role we see transit playing in the
09:42:42 redevelopment of East Tampa.
09:42:43 >> Is there a possibility you can put that on the
09:42:48 >>MARK HUEY: Sure.
09:42:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So this will be shown over the next
09:42:51 several weeks so that people can see that we had
09:42:55 discussion that light rail is very much a part --
09:42:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Put it down.
09:43:01 Strategy number 5.
09:43:10 >>MARK HUEY: It says continue to enhance
09:43:13 transportation linkages and prepare for light rail,
09:43:16 density and associated redevelopment opportunities.
09:43:19 And then it calls out some short-term and long-term
09:43:23 And I believe there have been representatives from Hart
09:43:28 who have been meeting with their community, in two
09:43:32 And that dialogue is continuing.
09:43:34 As you know, Hart is right now doing the corridor study
09:43:38 for the transit paths from downtown to the university
09:43:45 And it's not sure where that exact alignment is going
09:43:49 to occur.
09:43:50 But the study area includes a wide swath of East Tampa.
09:43:55 So we will be monitoring that.
09:43:57 The community is very engaged.
09:43:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Any other questions?
09:44:01 We have a motion and second is.
09:44:02 All in favor of that motion say Aye.
09:44:04 Opposed, Nay.
09:44:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Congratulations.
09:44:12 [ Applause ]
09:44:18 >> Also congratulations to Crawley from URS, the lead
09:44:24 consultants on the project.
09:44:28 I know Ed and Michelle and zippy are thanked for their
09:44:34 I would also like to acknowledge Mike Chen who played a
09:44:38 critical role in bringing the study to closure so we
09:44:41 appreciate Mike's hard work as well.
09:44:44 Congratulations to everyone.
09:44:44 >> The high point of the meeting.
09:44:56 The next item on the agenda going back to the staff
09:44:58 report is item 2, which is the monthly reports.
09:45:03 We have provided you a copy of the monthly reports.
09:45:07 You saw a wide range of activity going on in our
09:45:09 redevelopment area downtown.
09:45:11 We have the opening of the riverwalk plaza adjacent to
09:45:15 the history center.
09:45:17 It's a great event.
09:45:18 We continue to work very hard with the potential for
09:45:24 heritage place to develop the St. Andrews AME church
09:45:30 The downtown market, the downtown partnership fostered
09:45:35 opened two weeks ago, and it's always exciting to have
09:45:38 that activity occurring in our downtown.
09:45:41 Channel District, we had a very engaging and successful
09:45:46 first meeting on the community park occurred and more
09:45:51 meetings will be coming.
09:45:52 We are working on a survey to show the need for a
09:45:55 grocery store in the district.
09:45:57 You are going to be hearing in just a minute about a
09:45:59 lot of work going on relating to the York street
09:46:03 stormwater vault in Ybor.
09:46:05 We are working toward the vision plan for Ybor 2, as a
09:46:10 complement to the vision plan that we have in place for
09:46:14 Ybor 1.
09:46:16 East Tampa, I have nothing to add to all the things
09:46:20 that Dan shared.
09:46:24 They have quite a bit of activity and energy there.
09:46:27 I'll just add that we have three major items that
09:46:33 should be opening up by the end of the year.
09:46:34 The quality INN and suites, the retail center and the
09:46:39 office building, all coming to completion, scheduled to
09:46:42 open up.
09:46:42 I'm sure there will be some events associated with
09:46:44 those, but hopefully you can participate in.
09:46:49 Central Park, we continues to work particularly on the
09:46:52 comprehensive plan, the map amendment there relating to
09:46:57 land, north of the Central Park, in the Heights.
09:47:04 You heard recently about the announcement built
09:47:07 University of South Florida, that they have an interest
09:47:10 in developing a training, very cutting edge, robotic
09:47:15 surgery training center that would bring surgeons in
09:47:18 from around the world to be trained in the latest in
09:47:21 surgical technology.
09:47:23 That would include the training center, conference
09:47:27 center, would include a hotel that's an important part
09:47:29 of that, and a parking garage.
09:47:31 We are working very hard with the university, with the
09:47:34 county and with the developer to try to make that
09:47:40 Overall we have the brownfield grant consultant
09:47:42 approved by you a week ago.
09:47:45 And that now is moving forward.
09:47:48 The facade grant program, I'll give you a brief update
09:47:51 on that a little bit later.
09:47:53 We continue to be involved in a lot of discussions
09:47:55 about transit, as was acknowledged earlier relating to
09:47:58 East Tampa.
09:47:58 All the CRA, downtown, Ybor, in particular Central Park
09:48:03 are engaged in considering the possibility of various
09:48:07 transit initiatives.
09:48:08 High speed and light rail.
09:48:10 So that's an overview of some of the things in the
09:48:14 Lots going on.
09:48:14 And if there's any questions I'll be happy to answer
09:48:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thanks, mark.
09:48:23 There's always a lot going on in your group.
09:48:29 I see on your summary of activities, our Web site is
09:48:33 being completely redesigned, six to nine-month project,
09:48:38 and I'm confident especially based on our earlier
09:48:40 discussions but some other sort of media issues that
09:48:45 will have plenty of board involvement and inclusion in
09:48:49 this process.
09:48:49 >>MARK HUEY: Yes.
09:48:59 We have a very outdated Web site, so we are looking
09:49:02 forward to really making it more current.
09:49:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I just don't want to circle back to
09:49:09 the same kind of discussions we had before.
09:49:10 >>MARK HUEY: Certainly anyone who has any thoughts or
09:49:13 ideas about the Web site, and if would you like to
09:49:15 contact me, I would be open to any ideas anyone would
09:49:18 >> And vice versa A.make it a two-way.
09:49:24 >>MARK HUEY: Okay.
09:49:28 Any other questions?
09:49:29 Let's move on to the next item.
09:49:31 As you know, roughly on a quarterly basis we try to
09:49:36 come see you and give you an update on the very
09:49:38 important work we are doing in the Channel District to
09:49:40 plan infrastructure in the public realm and Wilson
09:49:45 miller is our lead consultant and they are here today
09:49:48 to update you on their work, and in particular the York
09:49:52 street stormwater vault, which is an upcoming structure
09:49:58 improvement that you have budgeted funds for, and that
09:50:01 we are working hard to accomplish, because it's a key
09:50:06 for other improvements that we want to make in the
09:50:09 We have to do this improvement first.
09:50:11 So it's a critical efforts that the community and the
09:50:14 staff and our friends at Wilson Miller are involved in.
09:50:21 Would you like to come forward?
09:50:25 >>> Good morning.
09:50:37 I'm Hami from Wilson Miller.
09:50:40 Thank you for the opportunity to give you an update on
09:50:43 our current activity in Channel District.
09:50:47 As Mark pointed out the focus of our work is on
09:50:52 infrastructure improvements that have to be done up
09:50:55 front due to the permitting requirements of water
09:50:58 management district.
09:51:00 We are very fortunate that SWFWMD has, with the
09:51:03 assistance of the city stormwater department, has been
09:51:06 very cooperative in reviewing our options and given us
09:51:10 an opportunity to come up with a single design for the
09:51:13 entire district.
09:51:15 Initially, the way the stormwater system is in the
09:51:19 district, there's the basin to the north and basin to
09:51:23 the south, you have to treat both of them, but through
09:51:28 negotiation of SWFWMD we were able to narrow that down
09:51:31 to one system, which unfortunately these graphics are
09:51:37 kind of small to see, but gives you an idea that
09:51:41 primarily within the core of the district, all the
09:51:44 basin, the stormwater that is picked up through the
09:51:49 core of the district, bounded by Trinity and Whiting,
09:51:57 to assist them down to York where we are going to
09:52:04 propose a new vault facility, and again my apology.
09:52:09 These graphics are kind of hard to see.
09:52:11 But the stormwater vault that you see here would be
09:52:16 constructed under York, and at the 90% level plan, and
09:52:24 getting ready to proceed in January with the
09:52:29 construction following 12 months basically.
09:52:34 However, the core of the construction would be in the
09:52:40 month of April and September, then gives us the
09:52:46 opportunity to be able to operate a little better on
09:52:48 York since it has such a major impact.
09:52:51 Just to give you an idea of what it potentially would
09:52:54 look like, even though this is not exactly our project
09:52:59 but it gives you an idea of the magnitude of the work
09:53:02 that's going to have to take place.
09:53:04 This is very similar to the vault that we would put
09:53:09 under York.
09:53:10 That's going to require closure of three lanes and a in
09:53:17 the process of going through now the traffic being
09:53:19 finalized and to be able to accomplish this in a short
09:53:23 period of time.
09:53:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: When we talk about a vault,
09:53:28 basically we are saying that's when the rain comes down
09:53:31 and it goes into the storm sewer, that's where the
09:53:33 water would go down there in the Channelside area.
09:53:36 Into that big concrete container.
09:53:40 We call that a vault.
09:53:43 I haven't I haven't misspoken.
09:53:45 >> No, that's correct.
09:53:47 That's perfect.
09:53:48 And I appreciate the point.
09:53:49 I should have taken the time to explain.
09:53:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This is like a modern version.
09:54:04 Is there a newer, more sustainable solution to
09:54:06 stormwater than just sticking it underground in a big
09:54:09 concrete slab?
09:54:12 >>> Primarily, all the methods that are used
09:54:17 unfortunately do not remove the amount currently in
09:54:22 practice unless you have substantial amount of land
09:54:24 available to what they call a train method to capture
09:54:26 all everything that is generated so they are capturing
09:54:31 the stormwater, the structure that -- standard
09:54:40 The vault water doesn't hold the water.
09:54:42 It goes through a filter media before it discharges
09:54:45 into the bay.
09:54:47 So that's really to clean up the water.
09:54:49 So the water that is captured from this basin will
09:54:52 receive the most treatment that is currently available
09:54:56 and the water that will be discharged meets all the
09:54:58 criteria for discharging.
09:55:01 >> In other words, the nitrogen will be removed and
09:55:04 that sort of thing?
09:55:05 >> Yes.
09:55:06 >> Because you want to catch your first flush.
09:55:08 This is for the short term, for that big 20-minute
09:55:11 storm, so you have to catch it quick.
09:55:14 And then it will ease out afterwards, right of? In a
09:55:18 slower fashion?
09:55:19 >> That's right.
09:55:20 It's basically in this case the first half inch of
09:55:23 run-off that's generated is captured in the vault,
09:55:29 treatment to the drain system through a filter media
09:55:32 and then clean water is discharged.
09:55:34 The overflow, the storms that are higher than that,
09:55:38 bypass the system and they discharge into the bay.
09:55:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What is the annual cost of
09:55:43 maintaining this, in removing the oils?
09:55:51 >>> I have to say I do not have any numbers available
09:55:54 that I can say.
09:55:55 But because of the system, the way it's designed, the
09:55:59 maintenance on it actually is relative and minimum.
09:56:02 In other words, they actually have to go into it every
09:56:05 few years to clean, you know, anything that gets
09:56:10 captured, because you have silt built up in the
09:56:15 facility, so it has to be cleaned up every few years.
09:56:19 The system is designed in such a way that they have
09:56:21 access where they can actually put equipment inside and
09:56:24 makes it fast and a efficient to remove any kind of
09:56:29 The filter media that is put in is probably depends on
09:56:33 its performance, it needs to be replaced.
09:56:40 >> I'm thinking of the analogy of an air conditioner
09:56:42 where you have to clean the filters every month.
09:56:44 You don't have to do that?
09:56:50 (telephone rings).
09:56:51 >> I should have turned this off.
09:56:53 I'm sorry.
09:56:54 I really apologize.
09:56:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It doesn't have to be changed every
09:57:00 >> No, ma'am.
09:57:01 >> So this is the same principle as a septic system?
09:57:06 In other words, the silt and stuff ends up on the
09:57:08 >>> In a reverse way, actually, yes.
09:57:13 And basically what it does is when the water is
09:57:16 captured in the vault, initially, the solid is at the
09:57:26 That's why we purposely made this long because water
09:57:30 comes into one end.
09:57:32 So it slows down and all the solvent goes to the
09:57:38 water -- to the bottom.
09:57:41 And in a sense, it is in a similar application.
09:57:46 >>GWEN MILLER: You may continue.
09:57:48 >>> Just kind of briefly to cover the rest of the
09:57:51 project that is associated with that.
09:57:55 If the section of Washington street, which is from
09:58:00 Channelside to Meridian, and along with that is a part
09:58:06 that's going to be at Washington and a -- we will talk
09:58:12 about that a little more -- and that's the focus of our
09:58:14 projects for next year.
09:58:15 >>> Leah Deltosto, Wilson Miller.
09:58:27 I want to talk to you about our public meeting that we
09:58:29 had on the Channel District that was held on October
09:58:32 13th, and close to 40 people attended.
09:58:37 I think it was a very well received meeting and to give
09:58:40 everybody a chance to play designer for an evening and
09:58:42 come up with their own park plans and then present them
09:58:45 back to the rest of the group that was there.
09:58:48 And basically how it started, we told them a little bit
09:58:52 about where the park stood as far as other amenities
09:59:06 for parks that were in the community.
09:59:08 The park is 12th and Washington and shows the number of
09:59:14 park facilities that were in the half mail radius being
09:59:17 the first circle and then the 1.5-mile radius being the
09:59:22 second circle.
09:59:22 So there's diversity from the passive park to active
09:59:26 park to all different kinds of amenities that each of
09:59:30 them offer.
09:59:39 This is a picture of the land that we are currently
09:59:43 designing on that is at 12th and Washington.
09:59:50 Kind of a birds' eye sketch highlighting the area.
09:59:53 If you walk out to the site, it's kind of difficult to
09:59:55 see exactly the scale, because we don't own all the
10:00:00 land, it's vacant there.
10:00:02 Only about half of that amount.
10:00:05 The size of the buildings around it at this point.
10:00:07 And kind of falls within the district.
10:00:14 After the orientation, we gave them a sampling of
10:00:18 different pictures of the park.
10:00:22 But they wanted their design skills with the imagery
10:00:27 that will help them -- we probably provided about 40
10:00:33 different slides of different things.
10:00:51 And this slide is showing basically what culminate ad
10:00:53 out of all the different groups.
10:00:55 We have five different groups of about anywhere from
10:00:58 like four to ten people in each group that got up and
10:01:03 presented their ideas that they came up with, and
10:01:06 amazingly all of them came out with similar type of
10:01:11 items of that they would like to see.
10:01:13 And we synopsized into basically four main elements
10:01:18 that were recurring though those themes, primary they
10:01:23 wanted a dog area for the community.
10:01:25 Someplace you can go out and let the dogs run wild
10:01:27 versus having to have them on a leash and walk them
10:01:30 Unfortunately, the scale of our park doesn't really a
10:01:32 allow for a full-blown dog park so we are providing an
10:01:36 area that can at least give a little bit of space to
10:01:41 run around.
10:01:43 Also, public art came out as being an important
10:01:46 So we are looking to include that.
10:01:48 And then social gathering space with shade, so that
10:01:52 after work people can gather and sit with their
10:01:56 neighbors and talk.
10:01:57 And then also some kind of play element.
10:02:01 Even though there's not a lot of children in the
10:02:03 community right now they felt it was important that
10:02:05 there be something in there, not maybe a traditional
10:02:08 playground but something that would allow them to have
10:02:11 a chance to go out and run around and play and
10:02:15 Some of the other activities that came out was the
10:02:18 ability to have exercise in the park, whether it be a
10:02:21 workout station, or bocce, volleyball, that sort of
10:02:27 thing, also the ability to have classes or performance
10:02:34 And also being sustainable.
10:02:37 Any material that we use will last over time.
10:02:40 Looking at xeriscape for the planting and different
10:02:47 And also looking at buffering the sides of the park
10:02:52 from some of the negative uses adjacent to a parking
10:02:55 lot on one side, like to screen that, and providing
10:03:00 space so it felt very comfortable when you are in the
10:03:03 park and you didn't have to worry about it being an
10:03:07 unsafe place or place where people could hang out and
10:03:10 not be seen.
10:03:11 So that was all the elements.
10:03:13 Where we stand right now is that we are in the concept
10:03:17 development stage taking all these ideas, and coming up
10:03:19 with some concepts.
10:03:22 We plan to get together after Thanksgiving with the
10:03:26 public again and showing some of the ideas, and then
10:03:29 get some more input from them on which direction they
10:03:32 would like to see the park go at that point.
10:03:34 And our goal is to be able to complete construction
10:03:37 documents by the early part of next year and hopefully
10:03:42 get it on the same scheduled construction as the
10:03:46 Washington street and the York street vault so the
10:03:49 people can have a park to enjoy by the end of next
10:03:52 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm just looking at the map.
10:04:02 And the public -- this one, looking at the overhead.
10:04:09 The public gathering space with shade, I hope that will
10:04:15 be green and it will be trees.
10:04:17 Trees provide shade.
10:04:19 I worry about -- I saw that the pictures you provided
10:04:22 mostly looked great, but I also think that
10:04:26 traditionally parks that work -- and we saw them -- I
10:04:31 don't know if you were able to attend that downtown
10:04:33 partnership lunch with Bryant park.
10:04:36 >>> Yes.
10:04:37 >>MARY MULHERN: Basically a traditional park that's
10:04:40 got trees and pathways and chairs.
10:04:49 Chairs and maybe tables so that maybe they could think
10:04:51 about that sort of open space as the programming.
10:04:57 It sounds like they want to do a lot and there's only
10:05:01 this little park.
10:05:03 But also just want to make sure, I don't want to see
10:05:07 hard escape there, because as you showed us, this is
10:05:10 that one little dot in the middle of the Channel
10:05:15 If it's going to be the only green we have that we know
10:05:20 of now, so I would like to suggest to them that they
10:05:22 stay with plans.
10:05:23 Also a couple of ideas I had as far as the green and it
10:05:28 could be public art or it could be parks and gardens,
10:05:32 is that there are vertical gardens that people are
10:05:35 putting up now, for growing which is my big thing.
10:05:42 I guess community gardening wasn't one of the ideas
10:05:45 that came up.
10:05:46 >> It was thrown out as one of the possibilities, but
10:05:50 it wasn't incorporated by any of the groups.
10:05:54 >> There wasn't interest in it.
10:05:56 But, anyway, just an idea of urban spaces, two true of
10:06:02 the vertical garden because it adds green but you can
10:06:06 grow vegetables or whatever you want.
10:06:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:06:11 This is so encouraging.
10:06:12 The communities wanted a park for a reel really long
10:06:15 I'm glad we are there.
10:06:16 Is the funding in this year's budget cycle for
10:06:20 >> I believe so.
10:06:20 >>> Bob McDonaugh, downtown Channel District urban
10:06:29 Yes, it is.
10:06:30 What you saw today, both the underground, the
10:06:34 streetscape on Washington and this park, it totals $10
10:06:38 million in improvements.
10:06:40 And the money for the purchase of the park and the
10:06:42 improvements of the park are in the 2009-2010 budget.
10:06:45 So yes, the money is there.
10:06:47 And I'm in the process right now of actually working
10:06:50 with our finance department to go out and borrow some
10:06:54 money because I felt it was important not just to do
10:06:57 the underground utilities on York street butt to do
10:07:00 something in the neighborhood.
10:07:01 And that underground utility by itself is almost $5
10:07:05 million but it's the backbone for all the improvements
10:07:07 we do after that.
10:07:09 So we are going to do Washington street.
10:07:11 I'm going out and doing a traditional bank loan and
10:07:14 borrowing the that money to do Washington street, so
10:07:16 that way we have the streetscape on Washington and we
10:07:19 have the park.
10:07:20 And it will give an indication to the neighborhood
10:07:22 that, yes, this is what our neighborhood is going to
10:07:25 look like.
10:07:26 This huge underground vault is great and it's necessary
10:07:28 for the neighborhood.
10:07:30 And it's $5 million.
10:07:32 But it doesn't add anything to the neighborhood
10:07:34 And so I'm sure we will be back in front of you in the
10:07:38 not-too-distant future to talk about bank lending and
10:07:41 construction contracts and progress.
10:07:43 We are moving forward.
10:07:44 So, yes, the money is there, and yes, the money is
10:07:47 available for spending to do the park.
10:07:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Wonderful.
10:07:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
10:07:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thanks.
10:07:55 This is really to both of you.
10:07:57 Two things.
10:07:58 Can you put that photograph up?
10:08:00 I think it was actually a photo or maybe a drawing or
10:08:05 photo of the cross section of the park.
10:08:07 It was a couple of pictures back.
10:08:09 >>> The perspective?
10:08:18 >> Yes.
10:08:19 And one before that.
10:08:20 >>> The photo of the --
10:08:24 >> Yes, that's it.
10:08:25 That extra mural.
10:08:31 It's the side of somebody else's building they don't
10:08:34 care B.but we had a beautiful mural done at Macfarlane
10:08:36 Park on the side of the rocket ball courts, and, you
10:08:41 know, maybe you can work with somebody there.
10:08:46 >>> The only concern I would have with that, as Leah
10:08:50 point out, we don't own all that land.
10:08:53 So this land in front of the building could potentially
10:08:56 be built on.
10:08:57 So we could build a mural and have it disappear.
10:09:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Even for awhile.
10:09:05 >> It's only taken ten years.
10:09:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Even for awhile it might be really
10:09:11 >> Something green?
10:09:14 >> If we could sponsor that.
10:09:16 And then the other thing I was going to say, I saw a
10:09:19 picture of Bocce or some similar thing.
10:09:25 I don't know.
10:09:26 Obviously it's going to be their decision because they
10:09:28 live there.
10:09:29 And something like bocce that doesn't take up a whole
10:09:35 lot of room might be neat.
10:09:36 But my son is up in New York City and he goes out to
10:09:41 the park at noon and plays a form of bocce like every
10:09:45 day weather permitting and it's kind of a nice sort of
10:09:48 spirit, that sort of thing.
10:09:50 >>MARY MULHERN: John, thanks for asking to put that
10:09:56 Because what strikes me as would be a great programming
10:10:00 opportunity with that blank wall which wouldn't be
10:10:04 permanent would be to show movies on it.
10:10:07 So movies in the park sort of thing.
10:10:09 And, you know, when the next building gets put up
10:10:13 there, you just -- but that's a public art idea.
10:10:22 You can talk to Robin Nigh about that.
10:10:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 4.
10:10:54 >>MARK HUEY: Thanks for the great update.
10:10:56 Lots of good progress in the Channel District.
10:10:58 Item 4 on your agenda is a community advisory policy
10:11:04 amendment suggestions that have come through YCDC.
10:11:11 About a week after your last board meeting I provided
10:11:14 you briefing papers on each of those.
10:11:17 And we put on the agenda today for your discussion.
10:11:22 I also have some feedback this morning to share with
10:11:26 you about the comments from other advisory committees.
10:11:29 As you might recall, that was a commitment that I made
10:11:32 was to take the request of YCDC to each of the advisory
10:11:37 committee members and provide you feedback, and I have
10:11:43 a memorandum to that effect.
10:11:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Did you ever organize a meeting
10:12:01 among -- last year we asked the advisory committees to
10:12:04 get together, talk directly to each other.
10:12:06 Did that ever happen?
10:12:08 >>MARK HUEY: Yes, yes.
10:12:09 Since that, we have had a number of meetings of all the
10:12:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No, I meant everybody.
10:12:17 >>MARK HUEY: No, I have not orchid a combined meeting
10:12:20 of all advisory committee members.
10:12:23 >> Because I heard some feedback from different
10:12:25 advisory committees that they would really like to have
10:12:28 And I think that it would be valuable, because
10:12:33 currently your staff is their gatekeeper.
10:12:39 And they would like to be able to communicate directly
10:12:43 with each other.
10:12:43 They don't have any sunshine issues.
10:12:45 One is here, one is there.
10:12:46 But they would like to be able to hear what things are
10:12:49 going on, in recognition, that all of our different
10:12:53 areas are different.
10:12:53 They have different characteristics, different, you
10:12:55 know, very different cultures.
10:13:00 But there is value in sharing information among them.
10:13:03 And this kind of policy, we are not trying to make one
10:13:07 size fits all, right?
10:13:09 >> Well, it's your policy.
10:13:11 It's really up to you.
10:13:12 Generally, you have put in place a policy, and for the
10:13:16 viewing audience in November 8th, 2007, the board
10:13:24 adopted its community advisory committee policy.
10:13:26 And what has come forward from YCDC are two requests
10:13:31 for changes, and it really will be up to you to decide
10:13:35 whether you change your policy in that regard and how
10:13:43 they apply. If you like I can sort of introduce those
10:13:46 requests to changes for you, and then you can discuss.
10:13:53 The first change relates tots role of ex-officio
10:13:56 Certain of your advisory committees, and in the work
10:13:59 paper, that we provided you, you can see which advisory
10:14:03 committees have ex-officio members.
10:14:05 Most of them do.
10:14:07 Again for the benefit of the viewing audience, an
10:14:10 example of that would be in Drew Park, Tampa
10:14:16 International Airport has an ex-officio member part of
10:14:19 the advisory committee in the Channel District.
10:14:21 The port has a representative ex-officio.
10:14:29 Your policy that you adopted in 2007 did not place a
10:14:32 term limit on those representatives of two years.
10:14:36 All other advisory committee members, your policy was
10:14:39 very clear that their terms went on for two years.
10:14:49 So that is one element of what YCDC brought forward, is
10:14:54 can you make clear that exofficio members are subject
10:14:56 to the same two-year limitations as non-ex-officio
10:15:02 board members?
10:15:03 The second item that was brought up in that is really
10:15:07 an item that is unique to Ybor City.
10:15:09 And that is that those ex-officio members be subject to
10:15:15 a popular vote of the board.
10:15:17 Why is that unique to Ybor City?
10:15:21 There are only two of your advisory committees, East
10:15:25 Tampa and Ybor City, which bring to you a slate in
10:15:29 advance of their elections for a approval.
10:15:32 So in your policy, your existing policy, they are
10:15:35 treated differently than the other advisory committees
10:15:39 that you have in place.
10:15:40 The reason for that was they all had established
10:15:45 organizations in place that were serving in an advisory
10:15:50 In the case of East Tampa, it's the East Tampa
10:15:53 community revitalization partnership that is chaired by
10:15:55 Ms. vest, and in Ybor City it is the Ybor City
10:16:00 Development Corporation.
10:16:01 If you will note on your chart, East Tampa doesn't have
10:16:04 any ex-officio members.
10:16:06 So, therefore, this issue really doesn't apply to that.
10:16:10 So Ybor City is really the only redevelopment area
10:16:14 where this issue of having a popular vote of the board
10:16:20 in support or not of ex-officio members has bearing.
10:16:27 And we have provided some discussion for you on that
10:16:32 And again I'll assume that you have read through it and
10:16:35 that will be part of your discussion.
10:16:38 The second change that is being requested has to do
10:16:43 with the terms of service for CAC chairman and vice
10:16:47 In your original policy, the policy states that those
10:16:53 roles will serve for two year, those who are elected to
10:16:56 serve in those roles will serve for two years.
10:17:00 YCDC is requesting that that be changed to one year.
10:17:05 And you can see in the write-up, the rationale for
10:17:10 Basically what they are saying is that because an
10:17:15 advisory committee member serves for a two-year period,
10:17:18 if someone were to come in to YCDC, as a new member of
10:17:24 that advisory committee, they are there for a two-year
10:17:26 term, they could be renewed for a second-year term, but
10:17:30 they could never really serve as a president unless in
10:17:33 their first term they would be elected into a vice
10:17:36 chair role.
10:17:38 So they have said in our environment that's
10:17:41 And we have identified in our staff comment some of the
10:17:49 observations they have shared with us that are unique
10:17:51 to Ybor City, which provide credence for their feelings
10:17:54 on that matter.
10:17:58 And those are my brief comments and introduction to the
10:18:01 And I can go into more detail if you like.
10:18:04 Or I can just turn it over to the board for discussion,
10:18:07 and we can answer questions.
10:18:09 As you see fit.
10:18:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: To we want to hear from any board
10:18:21 members who are here and not to speak to it?
10:18:24 Any board members who want to speak to this?
10:18:26 >>GWEN MILLER: Any board members here that would like
10:18:32 to speak on that item?
10:18:34 No, okay.
10:18:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Madam Chairman, as I said earlier,
10:18:40 I feel like each of our CRA areas is distinctive, they
10:18:44 have different boundaries, different goals, different
10:18:48 values, and I feel like we should respect that, so I
10:18:57 would move to support their request for policy changes
10:19:01 that reflect the uniqueness of their neighborhood and
10:19:03 the characteristics.
10:19:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I have a question.
10:19:08 In terms of the one-year, the way its structured now,
10:19:14 the chairman is elected every two years, right?
10:19:16 >>MARK HUEY: That's correct.
10:19:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The election is one.
10:19:20 >>MARK HUEY: Let me make it clear.
10:19:23 I you made a mistake when I answered your question.
10:19:26 The adoption of your policy up to now, they elect a
10:19:31 chair and vice chairperson on an annual basis.
10:19:33 When the board adopted its policy, it shifted to the
10:19:37 board's policy, which was every two years.
10:19:40 Now having a little bit of experience with that, they
10:19:42 are finding it to not be very workable, which is why
10:19:45 they are coming forward to request this change.
10:19:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I was always of the opinion, though,
10:19:53 that the chairperson served two years, and the election
10:19:58 was annually.
10:20:00 So that's not now it's done.
10:20:02 So my understanding was, the chairperson can only serve
10:20:07 like two years, I thought, the way it was structured.
10:20:09 >>VINCE PARDO: Ybor City CRA.
10:20:15 Prior to change in the YCDC board bylaws to conform
10:20:21 with the policy, there were no term limits.
10:20:24 We, in fact, if you look back at annual elections of
10:20:28 the chair, I think in ten years, actually only once has
10:20:32 the chairperson done another term because it was in
10:20:39 So this is in conformance with the two year terms for
10:20:43 all board members but annual elections for the officers
10:20:46 The officers only.
10:20:46 >> Okay, but my question, though, is the officer, for
10:20:51 instance, if I was running for the chairperson, you
10:20:55 would have the election annually, but can I do two
10:20:59 Can I run two terms, and it's up to the board or
10:21:03 whoever to elect me for those two terms?
10:21:06 >>VINCE PARDO: The way the bylaws are now that the
10:21:10 person elected vice chair becomes president-elect.
10:21:13 That person would rotate out, the president-elect.
10:21:17 If the majority of the board recommended and the slate
10:21:19 came to you, you are approving the slate of full
10:21:22 directors, and they vote in their first organization
10:21:26 meeting of officers.
10:21:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: But if you want to do that was on the
10:21:35 second part of that chairman term that the "elect --
10:21:41 becomes the chairman elect.
10:21:42 >> And it's that way to conform.
10:21:46 >> That's fine.
10:21:47 I'll support the motion.
10:21:48 >> Second.
10:21:52 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:21:54 Any questions?
10:21:54 All in favor say Aye.
10:21:56 Opposed, Nay.
10:21:57 >>MARK HUEY: Just for my clarification did you
10:22:05 approve --
10:22:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: All three issues raise dollars by
10:22:08 YCDC that were identified in the handout that was given
10:22:11 to us.
10:22:11 >> That's what I requested.
10:22:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
10:22:17 Do we need to specifically -- there were two on page
10:22:19 one and one on page two.
10:22:22 >>MARK HUEY: What we will be doing is adding in policy
10:22:27 and will redraft the policy and bring it back to you
10:22:30 next month for approval.
10:22:33 We will add into the policy that ex-officio members
10:22:36 will have a two-year term limit, and we will add into
10:22:42 the policy which applies only to Ybor that the board
10:22:44 will vote on that ex-officio member in advance of it
10:22:51 coming to you, and then we will insert into the policy
10:22:56 on the term of service an acknowledgment, if I
10:23:01 understood the board right, that depends -- if the
10:23:05 board wants to stick with your current policy of
10:23:07 serving every two years, they can do that, a chair or
10:23:15 vice chair will say in their circumstances to have
10:23:17 one-year terms of service, that they can do that.
10:23:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can I also mention the Drew Park
10:23:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Make a motion.
10:23:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'll make a separate motion to
10:23:28 accept the Drew Park request to also include in these
10:23:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
10:23:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
10:23:33 All in favor say Aye.
10:23:35 Opposed, Nay.
10:23:35 >>SAL TERRITO: We are talking about ex-officio members,
10:23:42 not organizational.
10:23:43 We are talking about the person who will serve for that
10:23:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Are you saying the institution --
10:23:54 >>SAL TERRITO: You indicated in your policy you want
10:23:56 certain institutions to serve on the board.
10:23:58 Now we are not talking about changing those
10:24:01 institutional representations.
10:24:02 We are talking about the person hole serve.
10:24:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The individuals, right.
10:24:05 >>SAL TERRITO: And you want the advisory committees to
10:24:08 have that option rather than the ex-officio institution
10:24:11 to have that option.
10:24:12 That's what you are saying.
10:24:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's what they requested.
10:24:17 >>SAL TERRITO: I just wanted to clarify what it is you
10:24:19 are approving.
10:24:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm making -- my motions are made
10:24:24 based on my understanding of the request of the YCDC
10:24:27 and Drew Park.
10:24:28 If I didn't get it right -- Mr. Huey, if we could take
10:24:31 this back to make sure that we as a CRA board correctly
10:24:36 understood their request and reflected them.
10:24:40 Trying to reflect what they asked for.
10:24:43 If I word it properly.
10:24:45 Just bring it back and make sure we have it right so we
10:24:48 are reflecting what they want.
10:24:49 I think it's very, very important for us to listen to
10:24:53 their needs.
10:24:55 >>MARK HUEY: It's a learning process for everybody as
10:24:59 we are doing this.
10:25:00 And we are happy to accommodate.
10:25:01 What we'll do is we'll redraft the policy based on the
10:25:04 direction that I have heard.
10:25:05 We'll send it out to all the community advisory
10:25:07 committees, make sure that we have got everybody on
10:25:10 board with changes we are making and bring it to you
10:25:12 next month for adoption.
10:25:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I want to say to Mr. Huey and to
10:25:22 councilman Saul-Sena, it's my understanding these
10:25:25 requests are coming directly from the advisory board.
10:25:28 So we are trying to accommodate the request of the
10:25:31 advisory board.
10:25:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That is my understanding.
10:25:33 >>MARK HUEY: Absolutely.
10:25:36 Good clarification.
10:25:38 And a couple of quick items on our community advisory
10:25:42 committees, if I can have the Elmo.
10:25:44 >>GWEN MILLER: It's upside down.
10:25:51 >>> Can't quite see all of that information.
10:25:58 But we are right now recruiting members for advisory
10:26:01 committees, and you can see each of the advisory boards
10:26:04 listed there, the number of seats that are open.
10:26:06 You can see that we have two information meetings that
10:26:11 are scheduled.
10:26:14 And the application process, the information session is
10:26:18 November 17th and November 18th.
10:26:21 There's a 30-day recruitment period going on.
10:26:29 Ms. Investigate spoke with enthusiasm.
10:26:35 If you want to make a difference in your neighborhood,
10:26:37 your community, we would encourage you to submit an
10:26:40 And I also wanted to recognize quickly Michael Kelly,
10:26:45 who is a new member of one of your advisory committees
10:26:47 in East Tampa.
10:26:49 And Michael, where are you?
10:26:53 Thank you for coming.
10:26:53 This is hires first time to come to a CRA board
10:26:57 We appreciate your volunteering in East Tampa.
10:27:14 >> The of Florida redevelopment agency held its annual
10:27:17 conference a couple of weeks ago.
10:27:18 And as you are aware, the Florida redevelopment agency
10:27:23 is a coalition that represents all the redevelopment
10:27:25 agencies around the state.
10:27:27 Hundreds are involved.
10:27:29 And Tampa was a awarded two awards at that conference.
10:27:35 There were 14 categories.
10:27:37 Again hundreds of applications for each of the
10:27:39 categories and two of your initiatives, the community's
10:27:43 initiatives were recognized.
10:27:45 One was in Drew Park, the partnership that we had with
10:27:48 the Tampa Police Department to eliminate adult uses in
10:27:54 Drew Park.
10:27:56 That was recognized.
10:27:58 And then the commercial that was produced in Ybor City
10:28:02 also won recognition for an out-of-the-box marketing
10:28:10 We appreciated Linda being there for part of the
10:28:12 And we appreciated the recognition.
10:28:15 There is no national redevelopment organization, so FRA
10:28:19 is really the highest award recognized in the work that
10:28:24 we do, and we do appreciate that recognition and the
10:28:28 work of our staff in accomplishing that.
10:28:30 >> Congratulations.
10:28:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Keep up the good work.
10:28:33 >>MARK HUEY: The next item, I already covered really
10:28:36 the recruiting update.
10:28:39 So I'll move to the facade grant program.
10:28:42 I just wanted to update you there that that's a program
10:28:45 you worked hard to put in place.
10:28:49 We have in fact been moving forward on the marketing.
10:28:53 In East Tampa five applications everybody requested and
10:28:56 we have already received one of those, and in new
10:29:00 business items nine applications have been requested
10:29:02 and we received one of those, and there's some activity
10:29:05 in Drew Park as well.
10:29:07 Two applications everybody picked up.
10:29:09 I just wanted to make you aware that the marketing of
10:29:11 that program is -- program is active and we already
10:29:15 have some applicants, so everyone in this economy, I
10:29:17 think in large part because we are offering an
10:29:19 incentive, the private sector is responding to a
10:29:22 potential opportunity.
10:29:28 Any questions on that?
10:29:29 Our next item is item 8, which is a carry-over from a
10:29:35 rezoning that was before you in East Tampa.
10:29:37 And I'll have Ed Johnson, our East Tampa redevelopment
10:29:41 manager, speak to that item.
10:29:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Hopefully give us the good news.
10:29:51 >> Urban development manager for East Tampa.
10:29:54 The issue at hand was the location of Osborne and 22nd
10:30:01 The property was sold as part of the rezoning
10:30:05 application last week to Tampa family health centers to
10:30:09 construct a new 15,000 square foot health clinic at the
10:30:15 corner of Osborne and 22nd.
10:30:17 And councilman Dingfelder and Councilwoman Saul-Sena
10:30:21 were inquiring with concerning the house that was
10:30:24 located at that corner, senator Hargrett's house.
10:30:28 Senator Hargrett used that facility as an office for a
10:30:31 number of years, but since sold the property, and it
10:30:36 was requested that we look for an opportunity to
10:30:38 relocate that home and to try to save it.
10:30:42 The house is a 2400 square foot two-story Victorian
10:30:45 style with a wrap-around porch, and --
10:30:51 >> How old is the home?
10:30:52 >> I don't know that offhand.
10:30:55 I didn't get the actual age of it.
10:30:57 But we did have some inquiry from our historic
10:31:00 preservation manager, Dennis Fernandez also was
10:31:03 interested in trying to figure out if there was a way
10:31:05 that we could collaborate, try to save this property.
10:31:09 Subsequently, I located eight parcels that are in the
10:31:14 vicinity of this house, that the house could be moved
10:31:18 But, also, that's one of the options.
10:31:21 We are looking at these eight parcels as a potential
10:31:24 place to relocate the home, and inquiring as to the
10:31:28 cost to move the home and relocate it.
10:31:35 I am privileged to have worked with Elaine Elise with
10:31:41 She spared with me the cost of what it took to move
10:31:44 some of the houses that they recently moved.
10:31:47 The numbers are staggering for me.
10:31:50 She said some of the smaller homes that they moved cost
10:31:52 in the neighborhood of 40 to $50,000.
10:31:56 They had moved several two-story structures in their
10:32:01 One of the latest one that they moved was a red brick
10:32:05 that they moved up to Columbus, was moved several
10:32:09 blocks to the tune of $120,000.
10:32:14 So it's not inexpensive to relocate, but we'll take a
10:32:20 look at it, figure out if it's feasible or not.
10:32:25 But subsequently, subsequent to that conversation, I
10:32:28 had a conversation with miss Kelly falon in our
10:32:34 audience this morning.
10:32:34 Kelly is one of our graduates from our community real
10:32:37 estate development training program at the USF that we
10:32:41 have had some successful projects come out of it.
10:32:44 And mentioning this particular house, Kelly
10:32:46 immediately -- the light bulb went off and she has a
10:32:50 relationship with St. Peter Claver church, and the
10:32:54 church, she had taken this idea of utilizing this home,
10:33:01 and the church St. Peter Claver would like very
10:33:04 seriously to pursue relocating that house to their
10:33:07 campus to become a home for one of the sisters that
10:33:13 would like to live on that campus.
10:33:15 And they would provide the property to do that.
10:33:18 The question obviously is the cost of relocating it
10:33:21 from Osborne down to their complex along Nebraska
10:33:26 But I want to give them an opportunity this morning if
10:33:29 you would give them a couple of minutes to speak to you
10:33:31 about their desire to possibly move this particular
10:33:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let me respond to Ed real quick
10:33:41 before she does, if I could.
10:33:42 The only thing I wanted to point out is, yes, we are
10:33:46 talking about a lot of money, $120,000, a lot of money.
10:33:50 But what you are starting with is a free structure.
10:33:54 >>> That's correct.
10:33:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Because the organization indicated
10:33:59 they didn't care.
10:33:59 Frankly they are going to be putting probably $5,000
10:34:02 into demolition, I would think.
10:34:04 >> A little over $8,000 to demolish.
10:34:07 >> Right.
10:34:07 So maybe they might even want to help or something like
10:34:10 that, part of that demolition fund to go toward helping
10:34:16 somebody move it, a good cause like your cause or
10:34:21 perhaps one Kelly is going to tell us about.
10:34:30 >>> Good morning.
10:34:31 Kelly Calon, brought some special guest today's.
10:34:39 This is sister Maria, the principal of St. Peter Claver
10:34:43 This is father Hugh from St. Peter Claver church.
10:34:48 And Mike Kelly.
10:34:49 I am going to let Mike Kelly speak first on the actual
10:34:52 moving of the house.
10:34:53 >> My name is Mike Kelly.
10:34:56 I was meeting with both Ed and Evangeline when this
10:35:02 subject came up so moving as fast as we possibly can.
10:35:05 I belong to Sacred Heart parish downtown, and our
10:35:10 mission this year is to support St. Peter Claver,
10:35:13 there's an opportunity for synergy here.
10:35:16 I'm also an engineer and general contractor.
10:35:18 So I can speak to Ed's comments about how costly it
10:35:21 might be.
10:35:21 But I can also speak to councilman Dingfelder's
10:35:25 comments that we are actually getting a house for free.
10:35:28 So if you do all the net costs, it's an opportunity for
10:35:32 a win-win.
10:35:34 And I'm committing my company and our resources to help
10:35:38 this project as best we can.
10:35:39 I think it's the right thing to do.
10:35:42 Short notice for father Hugh, also, so he asked me to
10:35:46 speak on his behalf.
10:35:47 They are very interested in the project.
10:35:51 The sister would actually be living in the house on the
10:35:54 Sister Marie is the principal.
10:35:56 So they are 100 percent behind this.
10:35:58 We'll do all we can to make it happen.
10:36:00 They'll do all they can to make it happen.
10:36:02 Thank you.
10:36:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to compliment all of you for
10:36:05 your creativity, and moving a house and reusing it is
10:36:12 by far the greenest most sustainable thing we can do
10:36:16 and I challenge to you create a new beautiful two-story
10:36:19 house for $100,000.
10:36:23 I think this project is worthy of CRA funding, for
10:36:28 Cindy Miller funding for taking a viable structure and
10:36:32 reusing it for housing.
10:36:36 Excuse me.
10:36:37 I think this is a really exciting project and I would
10:36:39 hope that we would consider using either some of our
10:36:42 CRA resources and/or some of our moneys that are
10:36:47 administered through Sharon West and Cindy Miller to
10:36:51 help accomplish this.
10:36:52 I think this would ab win-win-win.
10:36:55 Plus it's a historic structure.
10:36:57 And the location next to your historic school just has
10:37:01 a right feeling about it.
10:37:03 So in any way that we at City Council can help you,
10:37:06 please call.
10:37:08 >>> I would like to say one thing in addition.
10:37:12 In that area there are in our class project that we
10:37:14 did, there's two shotgun houses on -- in the vicinity
10:37:19 area, as well as Ebernezer church historic area.
10:37:24 So it's really lending itself to some marvelous
10:37:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
10:37:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mark, clearly this would involve
10:37:40 some creativity and fast moving on the part of the CRA
10:37:44 and the city and anybody else who is going to be
10:37:48 But I see it that there might be a possibility for
10:37:53 perhaps some bridge funding or something like that, you
10:37:56 know, from the government side perhaps to facilitate
10:38:04 Because long-term there is an asset there, that maybe
10:38:08 that's something we'll keep in mind.
10:38:10 >>MARK HUEY: We are certainly at the table with
10:38:13 everybody and trying to be a part of the team making
10:38:16 something happen.
10:38:18 So how we are involved in going forward, I can't really
10:38:20 represent to you, but certainly share with you at the
10:38:26 table trying to be supportive.
10:38:27 >> I would like to make a motion just to encourage the
10:38:31 staff to continue using its utmost efforts to see if we
10:38:36 can make this happen.
10:38:37 It's not saying it's gonna happen.
10:38:40 It's not saying, you know, that the city is going to
10:38:42 spend X amount or the city is going to spend XYZ, but
10:38:49 just a general feeling from this body to encourage
10:38:51 staff to keep working hard on this issue.
10:38:53 >> You and report back at our next CRA meeting?
10:38:56 >> Yes.
10:38:57 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:38:59 Comments on the motion.
10:39:00 >> My question of what we are trying to do here, where
10:39:04 is the money going to come from?
10:39:06 I have a real issue with we are talking about taking
10:39:08 CRA dollars and spending that money, because here
10:39:11 again, to go back to the establishment through the
10:39:13 state legislature, and I'm not sure it qualifies.
10:39:16 Do you want to speak to that, Mr. Attorney?
10:39:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We don't know what we are talking
10:39:21 about, though.
10:39:21 >>SAL TERRITO: I have not looked at the question yet.
10:39:25 I'm aware of the issue.
10:39:26 I think there's some room to discuss this issue, that
10:39:28 there may be a way of doing this.
10:39:30 But I don't know the answer directly yet.
10:39:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And the other thing I would say is
10:39:35 that money available through the historic preservation,
10:39:39 that may be the way to go if that fund is available, or
10:39:46 through Cindy Miller's office, CDBG.
10:39:50 I just have a real issue with CRA money, and the way
10:39:53 the statute set this up as really for redevelopment,
10:39:57 economic development, now, and that sort of thing.
10:40:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to echo some of those
10:40:11 sentiments that were said.
10:40:12 I'm not going to vote against the intent.
10:40:14 However, before I vote on something, I have got to know
10:40:17 the real cost.
10:40:18 Nothing in life is free.
10:40:20 Not one thing is free.
10:40:23 Let's get that on the table.
10:40:25 Let's also get on the table that when you move
10:40:27 something, it's just not the moving.
10:40:30 It's the repairing.
10:40:33 I don't know what condition that house is in.
10:40:35 So before we do all this, why don't we go inspect the
10:40:38 house, somebody, and say what it needs?
10:40:41 For me to give a blank idea, I'm not into the blanking
10:40:47 of any idea unless I know what the costs are.
10:40:50 There's certainly a human side to this.
10:40:52 And I welcome and appreciate that very much.
10:40:54 But we are talking about Osborne and 22nd, a long way
10:40:58 to move a wooden house.
10:41:01 It has to be more likely, I don't think you are going
10:41:03 to move in the one piece.
10:41:05 That porch has got to come out.
10:41:07 Different things have to come off.
10:41:11 More likely be moved in two or three pieces.
10:41:13 Then you have to assemble it.
10:41:14 Then you have to put it back together.
10:41:16 Then you have to balance it.
10:41:17 Then you have to do the plumbing.
10:41:18 And you have got to do whatever code.
10:41:21 When that house was built there was no code.
10:41:23 Then you have to bring that dwelling into standards.
10:41:26 What is all that going to cost?
10:41:28 Then you vote on it.
10:41:29 So I'm going to support the motion but I'm telling you
10:41:32 with reservations, I am not going to support, state
10:41:39 money on a home that was in a rezoning that has
10:41:42 wonderful ideas, well intended, but I'm very stringent
10:41:48 with my spending of money.
10:41:49 Thank you.
10:41:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Has that house been designated as
10:41:54 >>MARK HUEY: No, to our knowledge it is not designated
10:41:57 historic structure.
10:41:58 That's what everyone is trying to research.
10:42:00 >>GWEN MILLER: As part of this motion, see if it's
10:42:04 historic in this motion being made.
10:42:06 >>MARK HUEY: Right.
10:42:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Other questions?
10:42:10 We have a motion and second.
10:42:12 All in favor say Aye.
10:42:13 Opposed, Nay.
10:42:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, council.
10:42:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
10:42:18 We will go to public comments.
10:42:20 Is there anyone in the public that would like to speak?
10:42:37 >>> Al Davis: Madam Chairman, members of the CRA
10:42:41 board, when you asked ask for public comment, and my
10:42:52 reaction to it was this experimentation of the dog when
10:43:01 you ring the bell, he's slobbercated, so when I hear
10:43:10 the word "public comment" I came arunning.
10:43:15 But my comment was incorrect for the purpose for which
10:43:20 you call for public comment.
10:43:23 So I have got to be mindful when I hear the bell,
10:43:28 public comment, I'm going to respond to what is being
10:43:34 called for.
10:43:35 Madam Chairman, this is a comment for the section -- I
10:43:44 mean, if that be the case.
10:43:47 So my earlier comment, Madam Chairman, should have been
10:43:50 addressed to the matter related to the strategic action
10:44:05 So I am going to have to fast forward and hopefully my
10:44:08 earlier comment would remind to the comment I would
10:44:10 have made had I -- if I hadn't gotten that bell mixed
10:44:16 As far as the strategic action plan, Madam Chairman,
10:44:28 the deal has been done.
10:44:30 It's over.
10:44:33 But when we move forward, Madam Chairman, I hope we
10:44:38 would be mindful of how we use those TIF dollars for
10:44:43 the purpose of riding East Tampa of blight.
10:44:53 I don't see what that plan is going to do for that
10:44:58 because we already have a redevelopment plan.
10:45:00 We have the City of Tampa strategic plan with focus on
10:45:05 East Tampa.
10:45:06 We have got now the City of Tampa comprehensive plan,
10:45:11 and every topic related to the quality of life in East
10:45:14 Tampa is also addressed in that plan.
10:45:19 So I'm just wondering, Madam Chairman, are we using our
10:45:23 TIF dollars specifically for that purpose?
10:45:26 The other thing, Madam Chairman, real quickly, and I
10:45:29 hope you would do, give consideration to the earlier
10:45:32 communication that I sent to you.
10:45:33 And that is concerning the policies of this board.
10:45:38 And I would ask the attorney, if I may, Madam Chairman.
10:45:42 >>GWEN MILLER: You can meet with him after the
10:45:44 meeting, Mr. Territo.
10:45:46 >>> But this needs to be for the record.
10:45:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Your time is up, though.
10:45:51 Is it a short question or long question?
10:45:53 >>> The question, Madam Chairman, forgive me, is, is
10:45:57 this board policy subject to the Florida statute 120
10:46:05 concerning administrative act?
10:46:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Territo, do you want to answer
10:46:14 >>SAL TERRITO: This came up the last time.
10:46:15 The city itself is not subject to chapter 120
10:46:18 administrative code.
10:46:19 The CRA is a dependent special district of the city.
10:46:24 It would be my opinion that it is also not subject to
10:46:26 the administrative procedures act.
10:46:29 I don't know the answer specifically.
10:46:32 I have to research this.
10:46:33 But as a dependent district of the city which the CRA
10:46:37 is, I would think it would fall under the same rules.
10:46:39 I just don't know the answer to that.
10:46:41 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: City attorney.
10:46:47 Entities like the CRA and the city are specifically
10:46:49 exempted under chapter 120 from the Florida
10:46:53 administrative procedures act.
10:46:54 We have other procedures and other due process
10:46:57 requirements but we are not subject to that statute.
10:46:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:47:05 Mr. Huey, number 9.
10:47:08 >>MARK HUEY: Our quarterly financial report, it's our
10:47:13 way of being accountable to you as a board and the
10:47:16 community for the spending of TIF resources.
10:47:20 This is the year-end report so it's a significant one
10:47:23 and we appreciate the extra work.
10:47:25 >> So moved.
10:47:27 >> Second it.
10:47:27 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:47:29 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
10:47:31 Opposed, Nay.
10:47:33 Is there any information from council members, any
10:47:37 We need to receive and file.
10:47:38 >> So moved.
10:47:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
10:47:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to receive and file.
10:47:43 (Motion carried).
10:47:46 >>MARY MULHERN: I had a couple of items of new
10:47:48 business for the CRA.
10:47:49 I would want to ask for a couple of reports perhaps at
10:47:51 our next meeting.
10:47:54 One would be an update on the plans for the former site
10:47:57 of Gene's Bar.
10:47:59 And the other would be a report on the plans for the
10:48:02 former site of the honky tonk.
10:48:05 If we could have that at our next meeting.
10:48:07 >> Second.
10:48:08 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:48:10 All in favor?
10:48:12 Anything else?
10:48:12 We stand adjourned.
10:48:35 Tampa City Council.
10:50:31 Thursday, November 12, 2009
10:50:36 10:30 a.m. session
10:51:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come to
10:51:48 We'll have roll call.
10:51:51 Excuse me.
10:51:56 Our meeting is now in session.
10:51:57 Thank you.
10:51:57 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
10:52:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
10:52:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
10:52:05 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
10:52:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
10:52:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
10:52:09 The chair will now yield to Councilwoman Miller.
10:52:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Good morning, council.
10:52:28 We are going to recognize our officers of the month,
10:52:31 detective Jeff McGrath.
10:52:33 I am going to turn it over to chief Jane castor.
10:52:36 >> Chief Castor: As now this is quite the honor for me
10:52:41 to be able to present our officers of the month.
10:52:44 And this month as every other, we have an amazing
10:52:48 All of our detectives at the Tampa Police Department
10:52:51 are stellar at what they do, and Jeff McGrath goes
10:52:56 above and beyond what many of the other officers and
10:52:59 detectives do in our department on a daily basis.
10:53:03 And I'll give you just a couple of examples that span a
10:53:06 two-month period.
10:53:08 He was an integral part of the Seminole Heights
10:53:10 investigation where the elderly woman was viciously
10:53:14 raped in her residence.
10:53:17 And as you all know we had basically a city-wide man
10:53:20 hunt for the suspect who was eventually identified as
10:53:22 Joseph Frye.
10:53:24 And Detective McGrath was as I stated an integral
10:53:28 part of that investigation.
10:53:29 At the same time, he was given a robbery case where a
10:53:34 young woman was robbed at gunpoint by two individuals
10:53:37 in the presence of her five-year-old child, really had
10:53:41 no evidence to go on at all except part of the stolen
10:53:43 property was a cell phone.
10:53:45 He received permission to go up on the cell phone by
10:53:50 the owner and was able to track that immediately, ended
10:53:53 up tracking down these two individuals who had in the
10:53:57 short time that it took him to effect the arrest had
10:53:59 committed two more armed robberies.
10:54:02 So just outstanding work on his part.
10:54:06 In addition, the squad that he works on out in district
10:54:08 2, which is the northern part of the city, he is the
10:54:12 lead detective on that squad, and all of the other
10:54:14 detectives come to him as a point of reference,
10:54:19 investigative skills, helping with his -- their
10:54:22 They always know that he will assist in any way that he
10:54:26 He is an outstanding detective and an a outstanding
10:54:30 representation of the Tampa Police Department.
10:54:33 And for those reasons and what he does every day, it is
10:54:36 my pleasure to present detective Jesse McGrath as the
10:54:42 Officer of the Month for October 2009.
10:54:45 [ Applause ]
10:54:50 >> On behalf of City Council I would like to issue a
10:54:54 I am not going to read it since she said all those good
10:54:57 things about you.
10:54:59 At this time the public is going to -- the private
10:55:00 sector will give you some gifts.
10:55:03 I have something from Charlie's steak house.
10:55:07 Come on this side so you can receive the other gifts.
10:55:09 >> Good morning.
10:55:12 A job well done.
10:55:13 On behalf of Jim and Judy and Todd Stepp and Stepps
10:55:19 towing service we would like to present this statue
10:55:22 Utah for a job well done and a certificate at Lee Roy
10:55:25 Enjoy some good barbecue.
10:55:29 >> Jimmy mark from the Tampa PBA, happy to receive a
10:55:37 $100 gift certificate for yours or your wife's shopping
10:55:43 Congratulations and good job.
10:55:46 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Congratulations and welcome.
10:55:51 It's good to see you.
10:55:52 On behalf of Bryn Allen studios we are going to present
10:55:55 you with a $100 gift certificate so you can have your
10:55:57 pictures taken for you and your family.
10:55:59 On behalf of Bern's steak house we are providing a $100
10:56:02 gift certificate to enjoy yourself at Bern's.
10:56:05 On behalf of rigatoni's restaurant go enjoy lunch or
10:56:08 dinner, $50 gift certificate.
10:56:10 >> Chief Castor: Danny Lewis wasn't able to make data
10:56:23 but Bill Currie Ford presents you with a watch, also.
10:56:28 [ Applause ]
10:56:31 >>> I'm actually a little embarrassed to be standing
10:56:33 here right now for the recognition for something that I
10:56:36 do on a daily basis when I come to work.
10:56:38 I'm very grateful for the council and also to business
10:56:41 representatives and the citizens to recognize an
10:56:45 officer from the Tampa Police Department once a month,
10:56:48 very grateful for that.
10:56:51 I'm also very thankful for my supervision led by my
10:56:55 major John Newman and my sergeant Mary O'Connor for
10:57:00 recommending me for an award.
10:57:01 I didn't expect it because again I feel like every day
10:57:03 I come to work.
10:57:05 Following their lead makes it very simple to come to
10:57:07 work and do the job that we do.
10:57:09 But I'm very grateful for the recognition.
10:57:12 I thank everybody who is here.
10:57:14 And I thank my wife, also, because I put a lot of work.
10:57:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is she here?
10:57:21 Is your wife here?
10:57:22 Have her come up, stand up with you.
10:57:24 Have her come forward and your family.
10:57:26 >> She's very patient because a lot of time our job
10:57:30 takes us late into the night and many of those hours
10:57:33 are unpaid because that's just our desire to do that.
10:57:35 We don't wants to give up.
10:57:37 We keep on working.
10:57:39 So she's very patient with me.
10:57:44 She works at Tampa Police Department as well.
10:57:46 She works in our communications section.
10:57:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Good job.
10:57:53 [ Applause ]
10:58:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Congratulations.
10:58:01 Thank you for what you do.
10:58:02 Very much.
10:58:06 Any other comments from board members?
10:58:09 If not we will move to our agenda, which calls for our
10:58:14 10:30 discussion on the vendor preference.
10:58:18 So we will have Mr. Spearman com forward and make a
10:58:29 >>GREG SPEARMAN: Good morning, Chairman Scott, members
10:58:31 of council.
10:58:32 Greg Spearman, director of purchasing for the City of
10:58:34 Tampa purchasing department.
10:58:36 We have a presentation we would like to make to you
10:58:38 this morning regarding the vendor, local preference
10:58:45 program, followed by some program alternatives that
10:58:47 will be presented by the city attorney, and of course
10:58:50 any discussions you might care to have after that.
10:58:52 So if we could ask the staff to bring up the
10:58:57 We would like to focus on the outline for a moment.
10:59:08 We want to cover some definitions, methods, and methods
10:59:13 examples, regional definitions, geographic options,
10:59:17 purchasing statistics, some pros and cons of a regional
10:59:21 preference program, some areas of consideration,
10:59:23 conclusions, recommendations, parameters,
10:59:25 recommendation, and also regional preference policy
10:59:33 In terms of definition, we view a regional preference
10:59:37 program as a mandate policy award which imposes
10:59:41 legislative requirements in the public bidding process
10:59:43 to award contracts to regional vendors.
10:59:46 We look at a regional vendor as a business located
10:59:49 within a specific geographic boundary or location.
10:59:54 In terms of preference methods, there are many
10:59:56 different types of preference methods, but the one that
11:00:01 we are looking at for this presentation is the match
11:00:05 method which does not increase the cost of the bid to
11:00:07 the city.
11:00:08 In a match method, if the bid of a regional vendor is
11:00:11 within 5% of the lowest responses and responsible
11:00:16 nonregional bid, the regional vendor is given the
11:00:19 chance, one chance, to match the low bid.
11:00:24 On the screen before you is an example of how the match
11:00:28 method would work.
11:00:29 Let's say, for example, you have two bids.
11:00:31 You have a non-regional vendor who is the low bidder of
11:00:36 $250,000, and you have a regional vendor who is the
11:00:40 high bidder at $260,000.
11:00:42 The bid difference is obviously $10,000.
11:00:46 With the 5% preference, that comes to $12,500.
11:00:51 So that means that the regional bidder will fall within
11:00:54 the 5% preference and will be given one opportunity to
11:00:58 match the bid of a non-regional vendor.
11:01:03 So that's what we are talking about in terms of a match
11:01:09 The next slide focuses on --
11:01:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: If this is going to be a little
11:01:17 complicated I wonder if we can stop and ask a question
11:01:20 before we get to the end of the whole presentation.
11:01:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: How long is your presentation?
11:01:26 >>> We have just a few more slides.
11:01:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think you can finish and then just
11:01:31 jot down your questions.
11:01:32 >>> The next slide is a proposed regional definition.
11:01:35 We look at a vendor as being occupation licensed issued
11:01:40 by municipal or county government within the area or an
11:01:46 address located within the geographical area at the
11:01:49 time the bid is submitted.
11:01:51 The next slide presents to you some geographic options
11:01:54 in terms of establishing a local preference boundary.
11:01:58 City of Tampa, Hillsborough County, the current small
11:02:01 local bid does not apply to a program which covers the
11:02:04 five-county area, TBARTA regional area which includes
11:02:10 the five-county areas, plus citrus, Sarasota, across
11:02:18 the State of Florida.
11:02:19 In terms of specifics, in terms of the existing dollars
11:02:22 awarded by the City of Tampa, overall, 76% of all city
11:02:29 contracts are awarded within the SLBE area. And 24%
11:02:38 awarded outside of the five-county area. In terms of
11:02:38 the dollars or construction contracts, 82% of all
11:02:42 construction contracts are awarded within the SLBE area
11:02:47 and a 86% for construction-related contract dollars
11:02:50 awarded within the SLBE area.
11:02:55 Then we have to focus on some regional preference
11:02:59 A regional preference program may eliminate out of
11:03:02 state bidders who do not have regional area knowledge
11:03:05 and subcontract contacts.
11:03:09 Regional vendors may be given an additional opportunity
11:03:11 to be awarded city contracts.
11:03:12 Dollars may be kept within the region.
11:03:14 And it gives regional vendors an advantage in the bid
11:03:20 It also encourages regional vendors to bid for the
11:03:25 region and of course with the match system does not
11:03:28 increase the cost to the city.
11:03:31 Now in terms of some regional preference program, the
11:03:36 regional vendors are already receiving a substantial
11:03:38 share of the city's business.
11:03:41 And often have a positive impact on the regional
11:03:44 economy and can offer expanded job opportunities for
11:03:47 workers within the region, can actually discourage
11:03:51 economic development.
11:03:56 A regional preference program discourages competition
11:04:00 and eventually reduces the pool of competing bidders.
11:04:03 It costs money for these companies to put together
11:04:05 these bid packages N.some cases we are told into the
11:04:09 thousands of dollars.
11:04:12 Competition will eventually result in higher costs and
11:04:15 encourages exclusion in ordinance as cross the state
11:04:19 which will bring harm to vendors in our region.
11:04:23 Also local preference program would be subject to legal
11:04:27 Continuing, regional a vendors already have an inherent
11:04:32 cost advantage in delivering product and services,
11:04:36 preference unfairly exaggerates that advantage.
11:04:39 Lastly it would significantly increase the staffing
11:04:42 workload to administer the bidding preference program.
11:04:45 We listed for you several things under number 10 in
11:04:47 terms of the additional workload imposed.
11:04:54 Areas of consideration for exclusion and exemption, we
11:04:58 would recommend this only applies to construction
11:05:01 projects only.
11:05:02 But keep in mind that 82% of construction prime
11:05:07 contracts and 86% of construction related contracts are
11:05:10 already awarded within SLBE area.
11:05:15 With regards to conclusions, regional vendors are
11:05:19 already receiving vast majority of the city's business.
11:05:23 It currently is not a problem.
11:05:25 Regional vendors often have a great earth impact on the
11:05:28 economy and competing regional businesses --
11:05:33 nonregional vendors have a great impact on the economy
11:05:38 of competing regional vendors.
11:05:39 Regional vendors may lose business due to the enactment
11:05:43 of exclusion of an ordinance across the state.
11:05:50 It will increase time involved to review the bids
11:05:52 because of local preference.
11:05:53 Less competition will result in higher costs to
11:05:58 And the cost of the vendors to prepare bid packages so
11:06:03 the non-regional vendors will have reluctance to bid if
11:06:07 they know that a local vendor is going to have a
11:06:10 In terms of recommendations, we recommend continuing to
11:06:14 promote the benefits of doing business with regional
11:06:17 companies, avoid placing additional restrictions upon
11:06:21 the procurement basis, and continue to encourage local
11:06:27 companies to do business with the City of Tampa.
11:06:29 In terms of ordinance recommendations, if council
11:06:33 chooses to go forward with this program, the
11:06:35 administration recommendations inclusion of the
11:06:37 following principles.
11:06:39 The region a.m. approach was TBARTA plus hope
11:06:43 applicable only to formal construction bids, can't cost
11:06:47 the taxpayers more money, and cannot add any additional
11:06:50 expense to the budget.
11:06:56 Lastly, we do have some comments, I believe, that may
11:07:01 be coming from the city attorney.
11:07:04 And we are available for discussion.
11:07:05 >> Before we get to that point, we need to discuss what
11:07:09 you already put on our plate before we get to the legal
11:07:12 aspects of it.
11:07:16 And Councilwoman Saul-Sena, councilman Dingfelder, and
11:07:20 Councilwoman Mulhern.
11:07:22 Can I just ask one question?
11:07:24 >>> Yes, sir.
11:07:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I thought we asked that you pull
11:07:28 together a committee to review and make recommendation.
11:07:31 Are these recommendations from that committee?
11:07:32 >>> We did, Chairman Scott, have an opportunity to talk
11:07:35 with the Chamber of Commerce and also with the downtown
11:07:41 This was several months ago, to meet with them.
11:07:43 They were very interested in learning what a local
11:07:46 preference program was about, what the pros and cons
11:07:53 We did reach out in the community with those two groups
11:07:55 to tell them about the program and answer their
11:07:59 >> But my question is, as I understand the motion,
11:08:01 there was a committee to be formed.
11:08:04 Am I correct on that?
11:08:06 With you as chairman of the committee and then bring
11:08:08 back a recommendation based on that.
11:08:10 That's how I remember the motion.
11:08:13 So there was no committee pulled together?
11:08:15 I understand you met with the partnership.
11:08:17 I understand you met with the chamber.
11:08:19 But was there a committee that was pulled together?
11:08:22 >>> We did not have a committee.
11:08:23 We met with the chamber.
11:08:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have to say there's a huge amount
11:08:29 of misinformation going around and I appreciate the
11:08:32 work you have done and you brought back to us, but I
11:08:34 don't believe you brought back what we asked you to do,
11:08:37 quite frankly.
11:08:38 My memory was we asked you not just to focus on
11:08:41 construction but to go beyond everything.
11:08:43 And I see nods from members of Tampa independent
11:08:45 business alliance to that effect.
11:08:47 Secondly, a local construction firm manager who is very
11:08:53 conscientious came to me the other night and said,
11:08:56 Linda, Linda, our regional headquarters is somewhere
11:08:58 else, everyone though we had an office here for a dozen
11:09:03 There's inaccurate information floating around.
11:09:05 I'm not saying it's from you but I just want to say
11:09:07 that people don't understand what's in front of us.
11:09:10 You're not saying that the national or international
11:09:13 headquarters from the business needs to be in Tampa.
11:09:16 You're saying that an office needs to be in Tampa.
11:09:20 And that's something that's been very misconstrued by
11:09:22 the public.
11:09:25 And I'll let them ask other questions.
11:09:31 But some of the points that you make are absolutely not
11:09:34 They are not -- they are more -- some of the specific
11:09:39 points such as a match, that this will cost more.
11:09:47 It won't necessarily cost more and it might be more
11:09:50 work for your staff, but what you are saying is a match
11:09:54 proposal that the lowest cost is met, that does not
11:09:57 cost more.
11:09:58 I mean, the other premise you put forth is that there
11:10:01 will be benefit to having non-regional people bidding.
11:10:11 Well, that's a benefit.
11:10:12 Based on what?
11:10:13 >> If I could respond, Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
11:10:16 We are not saying that the match program in and itself
11:10:19 will cost more.
11:10:20 But we are saying that over time, because regional
11:10:24 vendors will not bid because we have a match program,
11:10:27 that we can --
11:10:29 >> We are talking about --
11:10:31 >>> Because of a lack of competition.
11:10:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This is not -- it's my
11:10:36 understanding that when you look at a matrix of
11:10:38 considerations that this is not the only consideration.
11:10:43 This is one of many.
11:10:44 >>> This is one of many.
11:10:46 But this is the one that will not cost the city in
11:10:52 terms of bids.
11:10:53 There are programs out there that will cost the city
11:10:55 money in terms of how to implement the preference.
11:10:57 But a match program initially does not cost us more.
11:10:59 But in the long run it could.
11:11:01 >> It could.
11:11:02 But you state these things in your presentation as if
11:11:05 it's gospel and it's not.
11:11:10 I feel we have asked you to do something you don't want
11:11:12 to do and you have come back with many reasons why you
11:11:15 don't want to do it or why it's not comfortable and
11:11:17 it's very frustrating for us because I don't feel like
11:11:20 you are giving us objective information.
11:11:21 >>> Well, let me just share with you, councilman
11:11:25 Saul-Sena, one real example of how a local preference
11:11:29 program could negatively impact --
11:11:32 >> Could.
11:11:33 >>> Yes.
11:11:33 I did speak with several other individuals that have
11:11:37 implemented local preference including Collier County,
11:11:40 and also Orange County.
11:11:42 I was informed by the purchasing staff at Collier
11:11:45 County that a local vendor in Collier County happened
11:11:49 to be on a $4 million contract in Orange County.
11:11:53 Orange County has a reciprocal local preference
11:11:57 program, which means that they have told the same
11:12:00 preference on a vendor who is non-local that may be
11:12:06 imposed upon them.
11:12:07 This vendor in Orange County lost the bid -- Collier
11:12:10 County, excuse me, lost the bid in Orange County
11:12:12 because of the reciprocal no local preference program
11:12:18 so it did have an effect in terms of that local vendor
11:12:21 in Collier County.
11:12:22 I spoke with Orange County to have find out how the
11:12:24 program worked and what they told me this morning was,
11:12:27 yes, whatever restrictions that are impose imposed upon
11:12:30 our vendors, we impose those same convenience
11:12:34 restrictions on your vendors if the vendor is bidding
11:12:37 from out of the area.
11:12:38 So that potentially has a negative effect.
11:12:40 And that happened just in recent months.
11:12:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Legal?
11:12:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I thought you said we were going to
11:12:50 finish this discussion before we debate.
11:12:52 >> I just want to stick to an issue.
11:12:55 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Just to clarify two points for
11:13:00 purposes of discussion.
11:13:01 I had provided you all back in June a memo on policy
11:13:04 options that council needs to decide to move forward.
11:13:09 One of those is that definition of what is local.
11:13:11 So that is one of the things you all will need to
11:13:15 The other issue that you all need to decide is the type
11:13:19 of local preference and what you are hearing from the
11:13:22 administration is they are recommending a match as
11:13:26 opposed to a preference which would be a percentage,
11:13:28 higher allowed for the local vendors.
11:13:30 So I think some of the comments were within that
11:13:35 What councilman Saul-Sena described is a definition of
11:13:39 local, is the most common that I found and I laid out
11:13:42 some other options a well.
11:13:44 Just for clarification the discussion I thought it
11:13:46 would be helpful to give that you context.
11:13:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Chip, do you have a copy of that
11:13:53 Because I do remember reading it.
11:13:55 It seemed to be in my package.
11:13:56 So maybe if we get copies of that.
11:13:58 >>> I'll have additional copies made.
11:14:01 I have one right now.
11:14:02 >> Greg, just a couple of questions.
11:14:05 And thanks for your work on this.
11:14:07 I think it is critical when you come up with these
11:14:11 statistics of 76% or will 2%, 86%, that sort of thing,
11:14:15 that we have a clear understanding of how you define
11:14:19 when you went looking for those numbers how you define
11:14:22 what a local -- what local was, and I think Linda
11:14:26 brought up that point as well.
11:14:27 I am not going to try to answer that question.
11:14:29 I want you to answer it.
11:14:30 I mean, did you say this is where the bid package
11:14:33 originated at this person's local address in Tampa?
11:14:37 Or is it where we do the billing and invoicing, too?
11:14:40 Because those could be very different scenarios.
11:14:43 And I'll explain for people who don't understand that.
11:14:46 You can have a company up in Cleveland or something
11:14:49 that wants to do business in Tampa, and they have a
11:14:51 local rep, okay.
11:14:54 He might not even be an employee but might just be a
11:14:57 representative of company X in Cleveland, with a local
11:14:59 address, and that person works out of their home in
11:15:04 some part of Tampa or Hillsborough County, or even
11:15:07 Pasco or Pinellas, the argument we are saying, and then
11:15:10 they might have ten companies for those products, all
11:15:15 products and that sort of thing, but their address is
11:15:18 local when they are submitting that bid package.
11:15:21 So that's why I'm real curious as to how we came up
11:15:24 with these numbers of 76%, 82%, 86% on our statistics.
11:15:29 >> Gregory Hart is here and he can probably expound on
11:15:35 that more but we basically use the SBLE area, the five
11:15:40 county area.
11:15:40 When we have bids submitted to the city we basically
11:15:43 pull that information off of those bids and it gets fed
11:15:45 into the diversity management system that's run by the
11:15:49 MBE office.
11:15:50 We track it by this.
11:15:52 We track it by locality in terms of city and state.
11:15:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But the key question there is what
11:15:58 are we using for the address or the zip code?
11:16:01 And what you are saying to me, I think, and maybe Greg
11:16:05 can elaborate a little bit, is that this is where the
11:16:08 bid originated.
11:16:10 Not necessarily where the company is headquartered.
11:16:13 Not everyone necessarily who the owners or operators of
11:16:15 that company are.
11:16:17 But where the bid originated.
11:16:18 >> Gregory Hart.
11:16:24 >> Do you have a clear understanding of my question?
11:16:26 And my concern about how these statistics came up.
11:16:29 >>> Yes.
11:16:30 The statistics which you are referring to is based upon
11:16:34 the physical address of the corporation or company, and
11:16:38 where the payment is sent.
11:16:41 So it is a fact of where the company -- excuse me,
11:16:47 physical address, which is one of the five counties,
11:16:49 under the SLBE market area, and that's where the city
11:16:53 has issued payment for services rendered.
11:16:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And is it possible that this person
11:16:59 man or woman, who is running this company out of their
11:17:04 home or small one-person shop in this city, or in the
11:17:07 area, okay, is the one that does the invoices or the
11:17:11 payments through their business?
11:17:13 >>> It's highly unlikely.
11:17:15 First and foremost the corporation or business in which
11:17:19 we are sending the payment to must have a physical
11:17:22 address through which the actual service or goods are
11:17:27 being delivered from.
11:17:30 And so it's highly unlikely that the city would be
11:17:33 sending payment to an individual or an entity that's
11:17:38 not actually conducting services or providing goods
11:17:41 from the physical location.
11:17:44 If that helps the question.
11:17:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It does but I'm wondering how close
11:17:51 we really looked at that.
11:17:52 I'm not saying you should have looked at it
11:17:54 necessarily, but I'm just wondering how closely we
11:17:56 really looked at it.
11:17:58 Because having been in that -- involved in that type of
11:18:01 businesses in the past, the world of reps, that sort of
11:18:06 thing, that there are a lot of people who will respond
11:18:11 to a bid out of their little small shop and put the bid
11:18:15 in and then bill it through their little small shop and
11:18:18 that sort of thing, and then pass that on to the
11:18:21 corporation or the bigger entity elsewhere.
11:18:22 >>> Sure, it's possible that that does exist.
11:18:27 But I would have to say and submit to you that based
11:18:30 upon best practices and standard procurement practices
11:18:35 that payments made to vendors and corporations are
11:18:40 verified in terms of physical address location.
11:18:47 The corporate registration would be in one of the five
11:18:52 So it's pretty much verified.
11:18:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I am going to definitely come over
11:18:58 to you all's offices and dig into that paperwork a
11:19:01 little bit, because I find it hard to believe that 76
11:19:05 to 86% of our money stays local.
11:19:08 I really don't.
11:19:10 We looked at these contracts and purchases all day
11:19:14 long, week in and week out, and many, many, many of
11:19:18 them are out of town.
11:19:19 I just pulled, you know, obviously all of our big
11:19:22 chemical purchases for millions and millions and
11:19:24 millions of dollars for water and wastewater treatment
11:19:26 plant, Wayne, Pennsylvania, Suffolk county, Virginia.
11:19:32 Now I'm not saying we can get these locally because I
11:19:34 know many of these chemicals are not available locally.
11:19:36 But the bottom line is that these are millions of
11:19:38 dollars that I can't understand why this wouldn't skew
11:19:41 the results a little more than I'm hearing.
11:19:45 I have one other question, and that is -- and this is I
11:19:50 guess more of a comment, Greg.
11:19:51 You came to a conclusion that out-of-town vendors might
11:19:54 be discouraged if we go into any type of process, even
11:19:57 including your match process, and I commend you for the
11:20:01 match thing being as perhaps a compromise.
11:20:04 But I think that the out-of-town vendors, if they
11:20:09 realize this is going on, they might sharpen their
11:20:11 pencils a little bit.
11:20:12 And you and I have been in the purchasing world, you a
11:20:16 lot longer than I.
11:20:17 But I think they might sharpen their pencils knowing we
11:20:21 can't go in there casually and get those bids like we
11:20:24 used to because we are going to put a bid in and then
11:20:26 those local guys are going to match it so we better
11:20:29 sharpen our pencils and that's something nobody can
11:20:32 match because it's a really, really good price.
11:20:34 I think that's a possibility, Greg.
11:20:36 >> It may be possible, councilman Dingfelder, but let
11:20:39 me point out to you, too, that one of the concerns with
11:20:41 the match method, a local vendor may actually harm
11:20:46 themselves ifs they try to match a bid that's lower,
11:20:50 from out of town, and we potentially could increase the
11:20:55 default rate.
11:20:56 So if a vendor believes he submitted a legitimate bid,
11:21:00 has all of the costs included, then he's going to be
11:21:02 asked or given the opportunity to match a bid from out
11:21:04 of town that would give the vendors locally, then there
11:21:09 is a concern about what the default rate may be because
11:21:12 the vendor has basically taken money off the table.
11:21:16 So we are concerned about that.
11:21:17 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, chairman.
11:21:21 Thank you for the presentation and the research, and
11:21:24 thanks also to Gregory Hart, who gave us a lot of these
11:21:31 I'm very encouraged by the statistics, but I am a
11:21:35 little skeptical as is councilman Dingfelder just
11:21:41 because we see those and I think the chemical example
11:21:44 as he submitted are probably vendors that we need to go
11:21:48 out of town for.
11:21:50 But our experience in approving purchasing and
11:21:57 contracts every week, it does not feel that the
11:22:01 overwhelming sense is not by such a large majority
11:22:06 going to a local bidder, so I think we do need to look
11:22:09 at how those numbers are being arrived at.
11:22:11 And I also think because it's been cleared since I
11:22:16 initiated these discussions over a year ago, that the
11:22:19 administration's position is that they do not want to
11:22:22 institute local business preferences.
11:22:25 As we get these statistics from you, they tend to lean
11:22:32 toward, you know, and I also feel that, you know, when
11:22:39 I came in here the first time, or opened this
11:22:41 discussion up, I had a stack of books, and I have a
11:22:47 folder full of research, and I don't print it all out.
11:22:51 I'm trying to be green.
11:22:52 But there is data out there, and the reason that cities
11:22:55 and counties all over the country, not just in Florida,
11:22:58 are moving toward this, is because of the economic
11:23:02 So one question to you is, have you looked at what the
11:23:07 economic benefit, the long-term, not the short-term,
11:23:11 but the money coming back, is there anything that you
11:23:15 can show me that the data we have shows that for every
11:23:18 dollar spent locally, three times more comes back into
11:23:23 the economy, that compared to what if you are not
11:23:28 spending it locally or regionally.
11:23:30 And I'm wondering, have you done any research or any
11:23:33 reading on those?
11:23:34 And if you can tell me.
11:23:36 Because we are debating, everyone if your statistics
11:23:39 are absolutely correct, that 76% of our money is going
11:23:44 to city dollars are being spent locally, would it be
11:23:48 bad if two more percent perhaps if we adopted even a
11:23:52 matching program, the ability to match?
11:23:55 Have you looked at that, the benefit of the economic?
11:24:00 And I mean research with numbers and looking at other
11:24:04 Because I feel like -- now, one phone call to another
11:24:08 county is not enough to convince me that all the other
11:24:13 research that I have seen that overwhelmingly shows the
11:24:17 money used locally stays in your economy, build your
11:24:21 So is there -- have you looked at that?
11:24:27 And what have you seen if you have?
11:24:29 >>> Councilwoman Mulhern, I did not look at that.
11:24:32 I did make an attempt to issue a nationwide e-mail
11:24:35 through the purchasing network to see if anyone has
11:24:39 actually done that, and no one came back with a
11:24:42 The other step that I took was I did call USF and I
11:24:45 spoke with one of the professors of economics.
11:24:47 I can't remember the name, to see if they had done any
11:24:51 studies like that.
11:24:52 And the answer was, no, they had not.
11:24:53 >>MARY MULHERN: There's an entire industry that's
11:24:59 doing that kind of study right now.
11:25:01 And a couple of Google searches will show you.
11:25:04 And there are cities like Grand Rapids, Michigan,
11:25:07 Madison, Wisconsin, Miami Broward, all kinds of cities
11:25:12 and counties are doing that research, and, you know, my
11:25:18 point is it's not going to be any different.
11:25:19 We don't have to spend the money.
11:25:21 We don't have to hire somebody to do the research to
11:25:24 show us that, because all these other cities have
11:25:26 already done it.
11:25:27 So to me, I would like to also point out, the entire
11:25:33 reason this discussion came up was to benefit our local
11:25:37 economy, especially in these economic times.
11:25:40 This isn't about, you know, the suggestion that this is
11:25:45 somehow political.
11:25:46 It's ridiculous.
11:25:47 The whole point of this was to see how we could get
11:25:50 more jobs, how we could make this a more vibrant city,
11:25:54 how we could retain our own local identity.
11:25:57 It's not about, you know, catering to whoever.
11:26:06 Another question I have, you know, I think the big
11:26:10 question is these definitions and how the data that you
11:26:14 are providing us, and Mr. Hart is providing us, is it
11:26:21 really -- are these really local businesses?
11:26:23 Because I think every national and global company --
11:26:28 even in the construction area, which I don't see any
11:26:30 reason why if we do this it should be limited to
11:26:33 construction -- we already have the SLBE, and the MBE
11:26:38 ordinances that help in those areas.
11:26:42 It's more to me in purchasing.
11:26:44 So this is another question for you.
11:26:45 Does this data include all purchases?
11:26:48 Or are we just talking about contracts?
11:26:51 >> The data, the overall 76% does include purchasing
11:26:57 However, if you look at professional services
11:26:59 contracts, that are bid out through purchasing, such as
11:27:05 auditing, legal, professional staffing, and medical
11:27:08 services, the statistics are even higher, 92%.
11:27:12 >>MARY MULHERN: Let me ask this question then, just to
11:27:17 be certain that we are all talking about the same
11:27:23 I have this report from the diversity management
11:27:26 initiative distribution of all industry contracts
11:27:30 awarded, okay, prime contracts.
11:27:34 What's the number?
11:27:35 What's the total amount that the city spends in a year,
11:27:40 calendar or fiscal, whichever you have, on all
11:27:44 contracts and all purchases?
11:27:46 >>> Based upon the report that you have before you that
11:27:48 was generated by Mr. Hart's office, $280,236,635 from
11:27:57 the period October 1, 2007 through September 30, 2008.
11:28:01 >> Okay.
11:28:02 And that is how much -- every check we write, every
11:28:09 >>> That's correct.
11:28:10 That covers all of the five-county areas.
11:28:12 >> Okay.
11:28:16 I think I would like to hear from -- we are going to
11:28:20 hear from the public, I think.
11:28:21 But I would like to hear from them if they feel that a
11:28:24 task force something that we should have, or a
11:28:28 commission to discuss this, and, if so, I'll volunteer
11:28:32 to head that, and we'll call it whatever councilman
11:28:36 Dingfelder ended up calling his group that studied the
11:28:41 green initiative.
11:28:42 So I want to hear that when people speak.
11:28:48 There was one other thing I was going to ask about.
11:28:53 In investigating this and doing my research, I think
11:28:55 part of our problem is even using the word "local."
11:28:59 So I think it's good that you have changed the wording
11:29:02 to "regional" because I think we are not just talking
11:29:05 about the City of Tampa.
11:29:06 We are talking about this area.
11:29:07 I have questions about whether we should go into
11:29:12 I think that the local business area that we use right
11:29:18 now would be more apt.
11:29:20 But what I notice that people don't want to talk about
11:29:25 And I think maybe we can drop that word.
11:29:27 Maybe we can call it "support."
11:29:30 I don't know what.
11:29:31 But I see it as having an even playing field.
11:29:33 We have a Chamber of Commerce that goes out seeking
11:29:38 employers from other areas to come here and offer big
11:29:43 tax incentives and the city pays for that.
11:29:45 We are asked to approve that, to bring jobs here.
11:29:48 That is not an even playing field, when an existing
11:29:52 small business here doesn't get any kind of a tax
11:29:55 incentive offered.
11:29:56 So I think we are talking about fair play, in who we
11:30:03 are using and who we are purchasing from. Anyway,
11:30:06 finally, this is way found out is the more acceptable
11:30:11 across the board concept which can be used to support
11:30:16 local businesses, best value purchasing.
11:30:20 Has the city adopted best value purchasing as a method?
11:30:26 >>GREG SPEARMAN: We have not, councilman Mulhern.
11:30:28 We have to look to see if that fits into our charter
11:30:31 and the charter would a allow that type procurement.
11:30:33 So we have to sit down and talk with legal about that.
11:30:36 >> I think it's now become a best practice for cities.
11:30:41 And what that does -- and this would help us not just
11:30:44 economically but this would help us environmentally and
11:30:49 If you look at what the long-term effects of -- what is
11:30:55 the value of your purchase based on many factors?
11:31:06 And I know you are doing that every day.
11:31:08 But I think best practice being advocated all over and
11:31:13 it is something that could help to us support our local
11:31:16 And if we could start to look at that, I think it's
11:31:19 time for Tampa to do that.
11:31:20 >> We do have a form of best practices, councilman
11:31:24 Mulhern, with the RFP process, because the RFP process,
11:31:28 bids are not just awarded on price alone.
11:31:30 We look at experience.
11:31:31 We look at technical expertise.
11:31:35 We look at the firm's history.
11:31:38 We look at costs.
11:31:39 So we look at all those factors, and once we go through
11:31:42 the process of evaluating those criteria, against each
11:31:47 proposer, we think the one that has the greatest value
11:31:50 to the city based upon a score.
11:31:52 And in a sense we do do a formal best practices but
11:31:56 not --
11:31:56 >> Right.
11:31:57 This goes beyond.
11:31:58 This new ideas, best value purchasing, that's what it's
11:32:01 called, and you get a million hits if you look it up on
11:32:04 the Internet.
11:32:06 But I think it allows you to look at whether that money
11:32:09 is going to stay here, and what those benefits, and it
11:32:14 also would allow you to see if it's going to be
11:32:16 negatively impacting the environment.
11:32:19 You can be purchasing green products.
11:32:22 There are all sorts of benefits to us.
11:32:24 So I hope that we can start to look at them.
11:32:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano.
11:32:32 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I'm a little puzzled with this
11:32:37 As Mr. Dingfelder brought up, "local vendor."
11:32:40 I know when I met with you the other day I wasn't aware
11:32:43 of all these ramifications of local vendor.
11:32:46 They could hire some guy.
11:32:48 Co-work out of his bedroom and be a representative for
11:32:50 a certain company.
11:32:52 And to me it's puzzling.
11:32:58 And the whole object of this is for those dollars that
11:33:03 are being spent with this company could come back to
11:33:06 this environment.
11:33:09 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: City attorney.
11:33:15 One of the things that is in the memo that I provided
11:33:19 to you all this summer was examples of how that issue
11:33:21 is addressed in various other local preference
11:33:24 ordinances, and that's something that we'll need to
11:33:27 grapple with, is how do we want to do that?
11:33:30 A common way of looking at it is to require that there
11:33:34 be a local presence, for lack of a bitter word, which
11:33:39 would be much more than what you just described.
11:33:41 It would be local office, activities out of that
11:33:44 office, more than just a rep with a P.O. box.
11:33:48 In fact virtually all the ordinances I looked at
11:33:50 specifically exclude a P.O. box as a valid local
11:33:54 preference -- excuse me, local presence.
11:33:57 So that would be something that is really key to
11:34:00 whatever ordinance you all would decide to go forward,
11:34:04 and like I said provide you options to consider that
11:34:07 would all exclude what you describe.
11:34:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I could follow up with Chip on
11:34:14 >> Yes.
11:34:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't know where the board is
11:34:16 going on this, where council is going on this.
11:34:19 But, I mean, is it possible that we could create our
11:34:23 own definition of what "local" is in terms of maybe
11:34:26 it's five employees, or something like that.
11:34:30 You know, with a local presence.
11:34:33 Just something a little more meaningful because you
11:34:36 could still have one person with a local address that's
11:34:39 not a P.O. box with an occupational license, but at the
11:34:43 end of the day it's still one person representing some
11:34:47 outside entity making -- taking in tens of millions of
11:34:52 dollars out of the community.
11:34:53 Right 9/11.
11:34:54 >> Sure.
11:34:54 And as we can discuss, there are different ways of
11:34:57 addressing that.
11:34:59 And we need to balance that with the difficulty of
11:35:03 actually enforcing whatever that standard is, so it's
11:35:08 something we would need to look at, and you all -- the
11:35:11 number of employees might work provisional services
11:35:13 from that location.
11:35:15 And it's not just a rep.
11:35:16 It has to be somebody that actually does the work.
11:35:20 There's a variety of different ways of looking at that.
11:35:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: My issue today, board, is that we come
11:35:28 right back around to where I tried to raise the issue
11:35:31 before, and with all due respect, Mr. Spearman, Mr.
11:35:36 Hart, I think have done a great job on the
11:35:39 If you recall the discussion came up.
11:35:40 I said to you all, let's not use Mr. Spearman, let's
11:35:46 make this fair.
11:35:48 So I have a great respect for him.
11:35:50 Nothing against him.
11:35:50 You all told me, no.
11:35:53 Do you all remember that?
11:35:54 No, he can do the job, and he can do the job.
11:35:57 Now we are questioning the data and now talking about a
11:36:02 task force.
11:36:05 The other issue for me is that they met with us, pulled
11:36:12 together the data.
11:36:14 If the data is not accurate they are still going to
11:36:17 have to go to the city and get the same information.
11:36:19 Is that right?
11:36:20 Is that right?
11:36:22 They have to go back to the same computer, same
11:36:25 software, and pull up the same data.
11:36:30 Mr. Spearman, can I follow up with another question to
11:36:33 >>> Yes, sir.
11:36:34 >> We talk about you can call it local vendor
11:36:38 preference, regional preference, support, whatever
11:36:40 terminology, whatever you want to call it.
11:36:44 How many counties in the State of Florida -- let's talk
11:36:46 about the seven urban counties have this ordinance?
11:36:50 I know Broward has.
11:36:52 How many counties?
11:36:53 >>> I did do some research, Chairman Scott, on that.
11:36:59 Let me just get that information.
11:37:01 >> While you are pulling that --
11:37:06 >>GREG SPEARMAN: Miami-Dade has a local preference
11:37:10 I did call them to find out how their program works.
11:37:13 But they have not gotten back with me.
11:37:16 Martin county has a local preference policy.
11:37:19 Broward County.
11:37:22 Soho water authority.
11:37:23 City of Palm Bay.
11:37:24 City of Gainesville.
11:37:25 Collier County.
11:37:26 City of Tallahassee and Orange County.
11:37:28 >> Seven urban counties.
11:37:33 There's Hillsborough, Broward -- Broward about 20
11:37:42 How many times have they used it?
11:37:43 >> Broward has not used it -- they have had it in
11:37:47 effect now for several years and only used it a handful
11:37:50 of times.
11:37:51 I think ten or twelve times.
11:37:53 The city of Tallahassee has had theirs since 2004.
11:37:57 They used it zero times.
11:37:59 Collier County has had their program in place for a
11:38:04 number of years.
11:38:06 They only used it four or five times in the last year.
11:38:09 City of Gainesville has had their program in place
11:38:12 since 2004.
11:38:13 It's only been used three or four times.
11:38:15 >> Okay, that's fine.
11:38:16 Let me follow up.
11:38:17 So then does Hillsborough County have it?
11:38:19 >> No.
11:38:20 >> Pinellas County?
11:38:21 Manatee County?
11:38:24 >>> No.
11:38:24 >> Sarasota?
11:38:25 >>> No.
11:38:26 >> All the regional players --
11:38:29 >>> Do not have a program.
11:38:46 >> Support small businesses or businesses here on this
11:38:52 Worked hard to put in place, the board did, SBLE, and I
11:38:56 was surprised.
11:38:57 I thought Sarasota was included in that but I see it's
11:38:59 not included in the SLBE.
11:39:02 But based on the fact that information that
11:39:09 Councilwoman Mulhern referred to earlier, here again I
11:39:12 have this handout, and that is of the construction
11:39:17 contract plan, already 82.94% is going, quote-unquote,
11:39:24 local, right?
11:39:26 >>> Within the region.
11:39:27 >> Within the region, which is spelled out on this
11:39:30 If you look at the same report, on the second page we
11:39:34 have for distribution, construction-related services,
11:39:40 87.9% is going, right?
11:39:45 >> Within the region.
11:39:46 >> Look at the next page.
11:39:49 Correct me if I am wrong.
11:39:50 I'm just going by what information you gave here to me.
11:39:55 Construction awarded here 79.7%.
11:40:00 Is that right?
11:40:00 >>> Within the region.
11:40:01 >> Within the region.
11:40:03 Let me go a step further.
11:40:04 I'm just going by what you gave me.
11:40:11 Next sheet.
11:40:12 Construction prime.
11:40:15 They have 84.3% --
11:40:19 >>> In the region.
11:40:19 >> Within the region.
11:40:21 And the last one the issue is distribution of goods,
11:40:26 because that is only 52.4%.
11:40:29 >>> That's correct.
11:40:30 >> So I thought we had a problem in the area of goods
11:40:32 and services, right?
11:40:34 >>> And one of the reasons, Chairman Scott, is because
11:40:40 a lot of these products that we buy are manufactured
11:40:43 other places.
11:40:44 We don't have manufacturing plants in which to buy
11:40:46 these things locally.
11:40:47 >> I understand.
11:40:48 >>> We have to go outside.
11:40:51 That accounts for that particular percentage.
11:40:53 >> I'm just highlighting the figures.
11:40:56 Councilman Miranda, then I think legal wants to speak
11:40:58 and then we'll hear from the public.
11:41:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Just one second, if I may ask Mr.
11:41:06 Mr. Spearman, this is talking about prime contractors.
11:41:08 >>> Correct.
11:41:09 >> Does that mean that in the scheme of operation and
11:41:14 doing something constructionwise that all the subs have
11:41:19 to be the same as the prime?
11:41:21 >>> A lot of the prime contractors do include
11:41:24 subcontractors as part of the work.
11:41:26 And I don't know if -- we do track that separately.
11:41:32 But we don't have those stats for you.
11:41:34 >> That's why I am asking the questions.
11:41:37 You may get something that meets your quote-unquote
11:41:40 local preference to local contractors, and then the
11:41:43 subs are from Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, wherever.
11:41:48 That's a possibility.
11:41:49 >>> That is possible.
11:41:50 I believe -- and I could ask Mr. Vaughan and Mr.
11:41:55 Daignault, but I believe most of our subcontractors are
11:41:59 >> I understand that.
11:42:00 But we are talking about possibilities or figures, and
11:42:05 this is inequity.
11:42:06 Then I would say this to myself.
11:42:07 Oh, so if I apply this, to me I would have to be born
11:42:11 in Tampa, Florida or the five counties to run for
11:42:17 That doesn't necessarily mean because you were born
11:42:19 here and in those five counties you're the smartest.
11:42:22 So I'm looking at this as objective as I can.
11:42:29 And, you know, years back, there was some shenanigans
11:42:35 going on in this area, and I'm not saying this will
11:42:37 happen, but it used to be in a lot of areas,
11:42:41 construction, you take this job, I take that job and
11:42:44 take the other job.
11:42:45 And there was a big scandal here years ago.
11:42:48 I remember that.
11:42:49 What I'm saying is when you reduce -- it costs money to
11:42:54 do a bid.
11:42:55 It costs time to do a bid.
11:42:57 And because it takes a lot of time, that means it takes
11:43:00 some money, whether small amount or great amount.
11:43:03 When you start to going the process other than the one
11:43:09 we have now, the lowest responsible bid, and everyone
11:43:11 at that point, sometimes the lowest responsible bid is
11:43:15 not the best.
11:43:16 I've seen here in my years of service, when not only
11:43:20 the lowest responsible bid took the job on, and guess
11:43:25 what happened.
11:43:27 Couldn't meet the obligation to do the job.
11:43:29 That was a local vendor.
11:43:30 We had to go to the second responsible vendor.
11:43:32 That also was not a responsible vendor.
11:43:35 So we had to go to the third vendor to get something
11:43:39 And guess what.
11:43:40 It was done.
11:43:43 I don't know if the figures are correct but I have to
11:43:46 make an assumption that -- it is hard for me to
11:43:54 understand this concept when at the end of the day,
11:44:00 what they haven't brought up on this side of the dais
11:44:03 is the cost, and there is a cost that they have a
11:44:08 certain plus of 3%, whatever that figure is going to
11:44:11 be, to correct that.
11:44:12 What about retaliation to those companies that are here
11:44:16 in this area that want to do business in some other
11:44:19 Do you think those counties are going to openly hug
11:44:22 them and say welcome in?
11:44:24 You are the lowest bidder, but guess what -- since you
11:44:27 are from that area, you get this.
11:44:33 It is about the City of Tampa being an open city to do
11:44:36 It is a lot more to find and not define this
11:44:43 conversation that we are talking about.
11:44:44 It is a city where tough freedom that if you have the
11:44:46 right to do things, and the employment to do things,
11:44:50 and the equipment to do things, and the business acumen
11:44:56 to do it right with all the things that you need
11:44:58 including your insurance, your policies, this, that and
11:45:01 the other, that you can bid and still get the job.
11:45:09 To me, we are treading on protectionism, and that's
11:45:14 something that will be against us as these companies go
11:45:18 out and bid somewhere else.
11:45:20 It sounds great.
11:45:22 It really does sound great.
11:45:24 And a it may be great.
11:45:26 But I question the authenticity of these companies
11:45:30 being able to compete in the open global organization
11:45:36 that we are in the marketplace.
11:45:38 This is no longer about us.
11:45:39 This is us competing against us.
11:45:42 And we don't want -- at least I don't want to see this
11:45:46 type of a reduction of the pool of individuals, whoever
11:45:54 they may be, to have the authority because they are
11:45:58 going to say if I am the lowest bid and somebody
11:46:00 matches me and I'm from out of town, don't forget the
11:46:03 out-of-towner has to pay the higher cost of bringing
11:46:06 the equipment, has to find the employees.
11:46:08 Where are they going to find them?
11:46:09 They are not going to bring them.
11:46:10 Here again I'm making an assumption that these
11:46:13 employees are going to come locally from these fivers
11:46:16 areas F.not who is going to come and move for a small
11:46:19 amount of time, five or six months?
11:46:22 Here again, all this that we have today is assumptions.
11:46:25 And therefore it would be -- I would have to really be
11:46:30 moved and shown facts and figures that these things are
11:46:33 contrary to my beliefs.
11:46:36 And my belief is it's a system that we have in place
11:46:38 now by the numbers that you have given us, it's
11:46:41 certainly working.
11:46:44 There is nothing wrong with bidders from all over, and
11:46:46 if you are the local bidder, God bless you, you should
11:46:49 be the lowest bidder because you are already here.
11:46:51 You already have the due diligence.
11:46:52 You already have your employment.
11:46:55 You already have your equipment.
11:46:56 You already have your contacts.
11:46:58 You already know where you are at.
11:47:00 And if you can't do that and be the low bidder, don't
11:47:04 hold me responsible.
11:47:05 You had your shot when you made the bid.
11:47:07 And these things take an enormous amount of time to put
11:47:13 And sometimes they are within dollars as you well know.
11:47:16 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11:47:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me hear from the public.
11:47:19 Mr. Fletcher, do you want to add anything right quick
11:47:22 so we can give the public?
11:47:23 It's 15 minutes to 12.
11:47:24 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: No, sir, I think I covered most of
11:47:28 the issues.
11:47:28 Again we are directed back to the June memo.
11:47:30 The only other points I would mention is if you all
11:47:33 decide to go forward with setting up a commission or a
11:47:37 study group, while this isn't legally something you can
11:47:44 do there are parameters in which to work, so I would
11:47:47 mention if we do go with a group that's going to
11:47:49 develop a recommendation, you need to work with them to
11:47:51 make sure they stay within those constraints.
11:47:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We'll have public comment if you all
11:47:57 would come forward.
11:47:57 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to say in addition to
11:48:00 that, I am only proposing doing that if we get the
11:48:04 public input that is asking us to do that.
11:48:08 >> Those that are going to address council, will you
11:48:12 please come up if you are going to be speaking, please?
11:48:16 Come on.
11:48:19 Almost lunch time.
11:48:23 And I'm hungry, too.
11:48:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: State your name and address.
11:48:26 >>> C. Cona with Associated Builders and Contractors.
11:48:29 I represent associated builders and contractors made up
11:48:35 of commercial and industrial contractors.
11:48:37 We are a local, state and national association.
11:48:40 Here locally, I represent about 450 general
11:48:43 contractors, subcontractors, members that do 95% of all
11:48:48 construction that the city and county has to offer.
11:48:53 ABC, it's members are truly against or opposed to local
11:48:57 preferences as stated by many already, that it does
11:49:00 increase the cost of construction, and it decreases the
11:49:03 competition, and also it's unfair competition as
11:49:08 commissioner Miranda stated.
11:49:10 You are giving somebody the opportunity to bid again,
11:49:13 although he didn't win that bid, to justify his bid.
11:49:15 And that's really unfair labor of contract or bidding
11:49:21 processes here.
11:49:22 Local preferences, what you are doing is you are
11:49:23 setting up walls between cities and counties, okay.
11:49:28 Sarasota does have a preference.
11:49:30 So you might want to recheck that.
11:49:32 And then say there have been no litigation against them
11:49:37 because there has been no work there for people to bid.
11:49:41 This local preference always comes up during a downturn
11:49:46 Did you discuss this three or four years ago when
11:49:48 things were hopping?
11:49:52 This happened three or four times already.
11:49:54 In fact, ABC right now has language that they are
11:49:56 developing in the state legislature to have a
11:50:01 preference law passed this session that will eliminate
11:50:04 all this discussion.
11:50:05 You have to look at the legal aspects also.
11:50:08 You are looking at statewide licensed contractors.
11:50:11 You are taking away their right to bid in any local
11:50:14 They have the right under the state laws of Florida to
11:50:17 bid any type of work without any preferences.
11:50:19 Those are going to be challenged, I guarantee you, and
11:50:23 from my members.
11:50:24 I have some of them here today.
11:50:26 Those are going to be challenged.
11:50:28 You are taking aware their ability to work all over the
11:50:33 state and out of state also.
11:50:35 It takes away from the local businesses here.
11:50:38 And it doesn't.
11:50:44 There are a staff of professional people who manage
11:50:46 those jobs.
11:50:47 But the builders are the subcontractors.
11:50:50 And 95% or greater of those subcontractors awarded the
11:50:54 jobs are within a three-county radius here, employ
11:50:57 individuals from that three or four-county radius to
11:51:00 man their jobs.
11:51:01 So you are not increasing that workforce at all.
11:51:06 You are building walls if you do pass something like
11:51:08 this, you are building walls in each community.
11:51:09 And again, if you want to look at something, look at
11:51:12 what Orange County has done, a reciprocating policy.
11:51:18 You take those that you would have in your county pay a
11:51:20 penalty price.
11:51:21 I don't agree with that at all.
11:51:24 Hopefully this legislation will do away with any
11:51:29 geographical preference.
11:51:33 That's basically it in a nutshell.
11:51:35 The subcontractors build the projects, they are the one
11:51:39 that is employ the people, compete with the local
11:51:41 general contractors to ab warded those projects.
11:51:44 They work together in that construction management
11:51:45 process to be awarded the county government projects.
11:51:49 With that I'll close and say thank you for the
11:51:52 opportunity to speak before you today.
11:51:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
11:51:54 >> Christine Burdick with the Tampa downtown
11:52:04 As Mr. Spearman mentioned we did have a chance to meet
11:52:07 with him.
11:52:10 We asked representatives from the Tampa independent
11:52:11 business alliance to meet with us as well.
11:52:13 And I will tell you that at this point we have not
11:52:16 taken -- we have learned enough about the process to
11:52:19 know that it's very complicated, it's multi-layered,
11:52:24 buying uniforms and buying contract and a chemicals for
11:52:29 your water treatment.
11:52:30 And so I a applaud your persistence now, I think 18
11:52:35 months of looking into this issue, but I would just
11:52:37 recommend, and we would hope that you would continue to
11:52:43 consider all the ramifications.
11:52:45 I think to do this well you need more than one policy.
11:52:48 You need maybe four or five or six layers of both in
11:52:52 definition of what the definition of "local" is.
11:52:56 And so I think the idea, if you feel strongly about
11:53:00 proceeding, the idea to take up a task force with input
11:53:04 to really understand and make an effective action that
11:53:08 will address exactly what you want, and will help the
11:53:12 community and our region and the businesses.
11:53:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
11:53:19 >>> My name is Bob Warlack, the president and CEO of
11:53:25 the greater Tampa Chamber of Commerce and the board
11:53:27 asked me to come speak with you today.
11:53:29 First I want to congratulate you and thank you for
11:53:31 thinking about business in Tampa and Hillsborough
11:53:34 County and keeping in mind how we can work with them
11:53:37 and help with them.
11:53:38 That's important.
11:53:39 And we want to do that.
11:53:41 And we would encourage you not to enact a policy at
11:53:46 this time.
11:53:46 To give you a specific example.
11:53:48 This summer there was a community commission to Canada,
11:53:52 to Toronto, to encourage business. They asked us
11:53:54 specifically why are you here if you are considering an
11:53:56 ordinance that would hurt us from coming to do business
11:54:01 It was friendly conversation but that's an awkward
11:54:03 conversation to have and how we would address that.
11:54:06 We think we have wonderful businesses here who are
11:54:09 capable of competing, and can compete, and we want to
11:54:12 make sure that we are doing things to encourage that
11:54:16 We really should rename interstate 4 to be commerce
11:54:20 There is tremendous commerce that goes back and forth.
11:54:22 We want to make sure we are not putting speed bumps on
11:54:25 that corridor that could inhibit any form of commerce.
11:54:27 The economy is showing us that we need to be supporting
11:54:30 the American free enterprise system, and encouraging
11:54:33 ways to make that stronger, enabling our businesses to
11:54:35 do that.
11:54:36 That is the critical need.
11:54:38 That's what's going to get us out of the recession is
11:54:40 how we can help our businesses be more and more
11:54:44 If a business is not currently in town wins a contract
11:54:47 and does work, that is potentially tomorrow's existing
11:54:51 They see the opportunity to succeed here.
11:54:55 We can work with them to set up an operation here.
11:54:57 It actually happened with one of the engineering firms
11:54:59 that worked on the sunshine bridge in the 80s.
11:55:02 I was here working on the committees of 100 and we met
11:55:04 with those companies, and they set up a shop here.
11:55:06 So they see it's in their best interest to operate here
11:55:11 as the winning contracts are coming in so it's a way to
11:55:15 entice them to come in and want to be here.
11:55:17 We know our businesses can compete.
11:55:19 We encourage you to have faith that they can compete.
11:55:22 Last thing in a point of clarification on incentives,
11:55:24 in a previous role, enterprise Florida, the states
11:55:27 contracted economic development agency, negotiated
11:55:31 state level incentives and most of them require local
11:55:33 involvement to be awarded the state incentive.
11:55:36 The incentives for the State of Florida are based upon
11:55:39 new job creation, whether it's a new business coming
11:55:41 in, or an existing business growing.
11:55:43 It was done that way so it wouldn't be unfair to
11:55:46 existing businesses.
11:55:47 Basically most of the programs, a requirement of ten
11:55:52 new jobs being created, and they can be eligible for
11:55:57 So we encourage to you keep that in mind, new job
11:56:00 creation, not a new business.
11:56:03 That helps our existing community.
11:56:06 So we would be willing to work with you on task force
11:56:09 if you go that route.
11:56:10 Again we applaud you for thinking of small businesses.
11:56:13 That's vital to our community.
11:56:15 Thank you.
11:56:18 >>> John -- I'm the general manager of Skanska here in
11:56:25 Florida. You may not know this but Skanska is an
11:56:29 international company headquartered actually in Europe.
11:56:31 I've lived in Tampa for 15 years.
11:56:34 Most of my people lived here their entire life or a big
11:56:37 part of it. We are supporting the community.
11:56:40 And if you look around, maybe this local preference
11:56:42 would help us on the surface. But I'm here today to
11:56:46 tell you that we oppose it. We oppose it because it
11:56:50 establishes unfair competition in the industry. And
11:56:54 that's not healthy for our industry.
11:56:57 You know, we have a term in the industry "bid
11:57:00 And this match program is bid shopping. And we get
11:57:05 chastised for it from the subcontracting community all
11:57:08 the time. Unfortunately, it happens in our industry.
11:57:11 We don't do it. But others do.
11:57:14 And now the city wants to turn around and make it legal
11:57:18 for them to bid shop, which basically gives somebody a
11:57:22 second chance to change their bid after they see what
11:57:25 the low number is.
11:57:26 It's unfair.
11:57:27 And it violates the really the tenet of fair
11:57:32 competition in anything that we do.
11:57:34 You know, we hire some out-of-state subcontractors, I
11:57:38 can tell you. We hire because they have a better
11:57:41 And they have agreed to meet the requirements of the
11:57:43 contract when maybe the locals haven't. We try to use
11:57:51 the locals.
11:57:52 We try to use them anytime that we can.
11:57:54 But our obligation to you as a client is to get the
11:57:57 best deal for you.
11:57:58 And if that means we have to go outside occasionally we
11:58:01 do. When we do, 90% of their labor is local.
11:58:04 They hire local.
11:58:05 They might bring in a supervisor or two.
11:58:07 But that's about it.
11:58:12 So I am here today to tell you that Skanska opposes
11:58:16 And it might help us locally.
11:58:17 It's going to hinder us across the state.
11:58:19 And we work across this entire state.
11:58:21 We have four offices in Florida.
11:58:23 And so we would just prefer that you not do this.
11:58:28 We think it's a bad idea.
11:58:30 And it really doesn't help the city and probably ends
11:58:33 up costing you money.
11:58:34 Thank you for your time today.
11:58:35 I appreciate it.
11:58:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Could I ask you a question?
11:58:39 Could I ask John a question?
11:58:41 The gentleman who just spoke?
11:58:42 >>> Yes, sir.
11:58:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
11:58:49 Which project are you on now?
11:58:50 >> We are doing Tampa Museum of Art, Tampa General
11:58:52 Hospital, Moffitt hospital, several.
11:58:55 >> I thought it was including the museum.
11:58:57 Because the museum is actually one of the poster
11:58:59 children for this issue as related to this deal which
11:59:04 with I am sure that you are probably aware.
11:59:08 >>> I could give you the details of that decision if
11:59:09 you would like to hear them.
11:59:10 >> Well, on this point, and Mr. HALE isn't here from
11:59:18 the local steel company because I think he has very
11:59:21 strong comments about this and how the locals, their
11:59:24 company, didn't get the fabrication work, and your
11:59:28 company is the general or whatever, want to call it
11:59:31 contract manager, and ultimately your steel company you
11:59:35 have chosen is Alabama.
11:59:36 >>> Yes, sir.
11:59:37 >> I'm sure there is a long and tortuous discussion
11:59:40 about this.
11:59:41 But if you want to give us maybe a 30, 40-second
11:59:46 version if Mr. Chairman could accommodate that.
11:59:48 I think it's important.
11:59:49 Because as I recall, that was one of the original big
11:59:53 That was the multi-million dollar steel fabrication
11:59:58 >>> I'll give you the short version.
12:00:02 We put it out for bid.
12:00:04 The designers of the project created specifics or list
12:00:08 of qualifications that each bidder has to follow.
12:00:12 We expect them to follow that because we don't have the
12:00:15 authority to change that.
12:00:18 We got the bids.
12:00:19 We asked the local steel subcontractor, got his price,
12:00:24 which was $140,000 higher than the guy from Alabama.
12:00:29 And he did not include certifications that the
12:00:32 specifications says he is supposed to have, one is AISC
12:00:38 I don't know what that cost a company.
12:00:40 Probably cost them something.
12:00:43 So he didn't meet the specks.
12:00:45 He didn't meet the qualification criteria.
12:00:48 And he was $140,000 higher.
12:00:52 I have an obligation to you and the people I work for,
12:00:55 like Mr. Daignault, to bring the best deal that I can
12:00:58 for this city.
12:00:59 >> Show in the abstract doesn't help.
12:01:04 How big was that?
12:01:05 >>> Well, today the contract is close to $50 million
12:01:09 but 140,000 is a lot of money.
12:01:11 >> So it was one percent?
12:01:14 >>> Yes, sir.
12:01:14 Percentagewise it's probably minor.
12:01:17 But did it change the economic outlook for Tampa?
12:01:22 I think all of the steel guys' people, except for the
12:01:27 people that made the steel, of course they are up in
12:01:29 But then the people here are local people.
12:01:34 But that's the minor story of it.
12:01:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What sort of kicked off this
12:01:41 >> I was told by staff there was a local that really
12:01:45 did install the steel.
12:01:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think it's being fabricated up
12:01:52 >>> It is fabricated --
12:01:54 We'll continue with the public.
12:01:55 But council, can we hear -- excuse me, sir, just a
12:01:58 >>> If you have a committee I'll volunteer to serve on
12:02:01 >> Okay.
12:02:02 I need council's approval that we hear at least the
12:02:05 last person.
12:02:06 Then we will recess for lunch.
12:02:09 Is that fine with everybody?
12:02:11 It's 12:00.
12:02:12 Our rule calls for us to either take a vote or waive.
12:02:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Actually, council, the rule states
12:02:20 that a recess for lunch shall be taken at noon or as
12:02:23 close as possible unless waived by majority vote of
12:02:25 City Council.
12:02:26 You do have another item that was scheduled for
12:02:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Ten more minutes and let these four
12:02:32 people speak.
12:02:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's what I am trying to get to.
12:02:35 >>MARY MULHERN: Let the last person in line.
12:02:37 >> Everybody in line.
12:02:40 Yes, ma'am.
12:02:40 >>> My name is Ellen brown.
12:02:43 I own the old Tampa book company, used book store on
12:02:47 Tampa street and I'm a member of the Tampa independent
12:02:50 business alliance.
12:02:51 What I have to say seems bizarre to me in terms of the
12:02:57 relationship with building huge buildings like the
12:03:00 Tampa Museum of Art and my membership on the board of
12:03:03 the Tampa business alliance.
12:03:05 We are not talking about huge contracts.
12:03:07 We are talking about supporting independent local, buy
12:03:13 local in terms of goods.
12:03:15 And buy local in terms of goods means that when you
12:03:18 shop at a locally owned -- and I don't mean Home Depot,
12:03:25 I mean Bay to Bay hardware.
12:03:29 When you shop at Home Depot, the profits that they take
12:03:32 in go immediately to a headquarters in another state.
12:03:37 They do not stay in this community for homes and
12:03:43 property and taxes and have a revolving and multiplying
12:03:46 effect of the money that we get in taxes.
12:03:49 And so I urge you to define, not to try and do a huge
12:03:57 umbrella throwing us in with steel purchases from
12:04:01 Alabama, but talking about how the kind of preference
12:04:04 the city gives when it buys goods from locally owned
12:04:10 businesses, changes the character of the community that
12:04:13 we live in.
12:04:15 That we don't get pushed out by chains.
12:04:18 We buy local.
12:04:19 And I hope that you will think about that in your
12:04:22 purchasing here in the City of Tampa.
12:04:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, ma'am.
12:04:25 Next speaker.
12:04:25 >>> My name is Jim Smith.
12:04:29 I'm the owner and president of Burrell Electric.
12:04:33 We have been in business in Tampa since 1947.
12:04:35 And I'm pleased to be in front of you to kind of voice
12:04:38 our opinion.
12:04:40 It may seem that on the surface that this is a good
12:04:43 idea and it will help local contractors, but we are
12:04:46 here to tell you that we feel it would be
12:04:48 anti-competitive, and it depends everything -- it's
12:04:52 against everything having we have been taught against
12:04:54 ethics as far as bids go, because by the work and time
12:04:57 and effort that goes into a bid, and you previously
12:05:02 read our reference to the museum, that cost our company
12:05:07 close to $25,000 worth of work from the time the bid
12:05:14 was produced until the final budgeting and pricing.
12:05:17 A significant amount of money.
12:05:18 And from the perspective of a contractor, if I was
12:05:21 going to go into another community, which we have been
12:05:24 posed with in the past, where an advantage would be
12:05:27 given to a local contractor on the basis of percentage,
12:05:30 we chose not to bid the jobs.
12:05:32 So what happens is you are going to lose the bids from
12:05:35 these people that are outside of this area and reduce
12:05:38 the quantity of the bids you are going to give to only
12:05:41 So it's anti-competitive.
12:05:42 And eventually it will cost more money.
12:05:46 It won't appear to be that way at first.
12:05:48 But by losing the competition that you have, that
12:05:51 creates the good pricing, and the quality that goes
12:05:54 into these jobs, that's how it's going to affect our
12:05:58 And so I appreciate your consideration.
12:06:02 Thank you very much.
12:06:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
12:06:04 >>> Good afternoon.
12:06:11 Post construction.
12:06:11 I'm a local here in Tampa, incorporated here in Tampa,
12:06:14 and I'm usually the renegade when speaking to council.
12:06:19 And I'll be that way again.
12:06:20 With all due respect --
12:06:22 >> State your name again.
12:06:23 >> Lisa Montlione.
12:06:27 When we discussed local bidders and local contract and
12:06:32 construction, our company is a member of the SBLE group
12:06:36 and we are finding more and more competition.
12:06:41 It used to be only a few contractors show up to do the
12:06:44 walk-throughs and look at the bids.
12:06:46 Now it is many, many more because of the condition of
12:06:48 the construction industry here in Tampa.
12:06:51 All across the state.
12:06:52 And when talking about how it would prevent
12:06:57 construction companies from doing business with other
12:07:00 counties, you are talking about much larger companies.
12:07:03 A foreign company which is three, four employees
12:07:06 strong, right now, because we had to let go so many
12:07:09 employees, we can't even think about doing work in
12:07:11 Manatee County.
12:07:12 It's just not -- or anyplace else.
12:07:15 Even going to Pasco County is a stretch for us these
12:07:17 days because of the time involved in traveling back and
12:07:20 So I think there's a difference between truly small or
12:07:24 local businesses an supporting those businesses and the
12:07:27 ones that you heard the gentleman from Skanska are
12:07:30 multi-national corporations.
12:07:32 So there's a huge difference between when you talk
12:07:35 local and small, or you talk local and have a
12:07:40 headquarters in multi-national companies and where are
12:07:43 those profits going?
12:07:44 Again, in looking at what has been suggested to a
12:07:48 multi-layered types of policies because what's going to
12:07:52 apply in one industry isn't going to apply to others.
12:07:55 Trying to buy local, looking at green initiatives and
12:07:57 saving greenhouse gas emissions and carbon footprints,
12:08:01 Producing and buying local is very important.
12:08:03 And one of the reasons why we can't buy all of our
12:08:06 products local as was mentioned we don't have
12:08:08 manufacturing here so maybe if we -- maybe it would
12:08:12 spur local manufacturing initiatives and building up
12:08:15 what this country was made up back in the day where we
12:08:19 had a lot of manufacturing processes taking place
12:08:22 We don't have that anymore.
12:08:23 And why?
12:08:24 Maybe it's because we are buying so many products from
12:08:27 out of state, or out of the country, or on the other
12:08:30 side of the world.
12:08:32 Thank you.
12:08:32 >> Thank you.
12:08:33 Next speaker.
12:08:33 >>> My name is Jonathan Graham, owner of forest
12:08:38 construction services, and UPM incorporated, also a
12:08:43 small minority business located here in Tampa.
12:08:52 And the reason I'm here is to oppose the law of local
12:08:55 preference we also do work in different parts, in
12:09:09 different areas.
12:09:10 And if we impose this preference here, it will limit me
12:09:17 in growing my business and other businesses that have
12:09:19 grown from this area.
12:09:21 It will limit a lot of different things that I don't
12:09:23 think that were given due consideration to.
12:09:27 But I do applaud you for looking at things that will
12:09:32 help our businesses.
12:09:36 It's very good for you to keep an eye on things that
12:09:39 may help our businesses or helps the community.
12:09:41 So I applaud you for that.
12:09:43 But as far as making it to where locals are given an
12:09:50 unfair preference, I definitely oppose that.
12:09:53 Thank you.
12:09:54 >> Thank you, sir.
12:09:55 Next speaker.
12:09:56 >>> Good morning.
12:09:59 Chuck javelin, and fortunate enough to be representing
12:10:04 Skanska and building the New Tampa Museum of Art,
12:10:08 Curtis Hicks on waterfront park, and I welcome the
12:10:11 opportunity this morning to clarify some things and to
12:10:14 state some realtime facts on our project.
12:10:18 And I support what Greg said.
12:10:21 And currently we have 43 contracts over there, bid
12:10:26 Out of those 43, 34 are absolutely local Tampa
12:10:32 The other seven are within a 50, 60-mile radius so they
12:10:38 are still in Florida.
12:10:39 But there is two contractors and that would be
12:10:43 McGrath who is in association with McNichols who
12:10:49 has the biggest portion of that contract but the
12:10:51 perforated holes, there was really no opportunity
12:10:56 As far as the structural steel, you know, part of my
12:10:59 job for the City of Tampa, which is my job to get the
12:11:04 best price, the best competition, and to make sure that
12:11:08 it meets the contract requirements as well, is a
12:11:11 quality project.
12:11:13 I had to beg a contractor from out of state on the
12:11:17 structural steel.
12:11:18 That was a complex project with very heavy lifts and
12:11:22 extreme complicated fabrication, and in addition to
12:11:26 that there was requirements of contract documents to
12:11:32 have a certified ASIC advanced erection certification.
12:11:40 And the locals, for whatever reason, didn't have that,
12:11:43 or excluded it, so they didn't want to do that.
12:11:48 It wasn't necessary.
12:11:49 In addition to that, there was a requirement in all our
12:11:51 contracts because we wanted minority participation.
12:11:53 That local contractor and other local contractors
12:11:56 excluded the minority participation, which was a deal
12:12:02 In addition, the local contractor didn't want to sign
12:12:04 the terms and the conditions of our contract, which 42
12:12:10 other contractors did.
12:12:11 And, you know, lastly, I think the gentleman stated it
12:12:17 was 140,000.
12:12:18 Actually it was 104,000.
12:12:22 If you put apples to apples, that's the actual dollars
12:12:25 on paper.
12:12:25 But there was a lot of -- how do you put value to not
12:12:28 having a minority contractor?
12:12:30 How do you put value to not being able to abide by all
12:12:36 the rules that the rest of us have to abide by?
12:12:38 And how do you put a dollar value on not signing the
12:12:42 So my point, I guess, is this, real information, we
12:12:47 have to get a job done, we have to get it done right,
12:12:50 and sometimes it takes contractors from out of state to
12:12:53 be competitive, and not only be competitive but to meet
12:12:56 the requirements of the contract.
12:12:57 So I think, council, you need to take into
12:13:03 Thank you very much.
12:13:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank all of you today.
12:13:06 And I want to commend Skanska for what they are doing,
12:13:10 and the opportunity to involve minority contractors.
12:13:14 They have really done that.
12:13:16 And so I want to commend them on that minority as well
12:13:19 as small businesses, over the past, what, ten years
12:13:23 now, I think, and it goes on and on.
12:13:27 So I thank all of you for coming out and speaking today
12:13:31 on this particular issue.
12:13:33 Okay, council.
12:13:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What are we going to do
12:13:38 Are we going to have a little discussion among
12:13:40 ourselves after lunch?
12:13:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We are not set to come back till this
12:13:46 evening at five.
12:13:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I Just wanted to say two things if
12:13:50 I could real quick.
12:13:51 For one I want to look closely at the statistics,
12:13:54 before we pat ourselves on the back too much, I looked
12:13:56 at some of the stats that you all gave us.
12:13:58 46% of the number of contracts that we issued in
12:14:04 number, not the dollar amount, the 46% of the number of
12:14:06 contracts that we issue in the City of Tampa total,
12:14:09 okay, leave this area.
12:14:11 So let's not pat ourselves on the back too much.
12:14:15 If you talk about dollar amounts, it goes higher.
12:14:17 But what that tells me is that some of our smaller
12:14:19 contracts, okay, are staying local, but the bigger
12:14:25 contracts are leaving. Anyway, number one.
12:14:27 Number two is, I think this workshop has been
12:14:30 I think we have learned a lot.
12:14:31 I know I have learned a lot.
12:14:33 And frankly at this point in time I'm not going to
12:14:36 support a local preference.
12:14:37 And I have been actually one who says maybe we should.
12:14:40 But I think that you all have been very persuasive and
12:14:44 I think it takes us back to high school or college
12:14:47 I think that we are talking about protectionism.
12:14:50 And I think when we hear about Orlando is doing it and
12:14:53 Dade is doing it and Sarasota is doing it and pretty
12:14:55 soon it's like everybody is putting up these walls, and
12:14:59 it becomes a little scary.
12:15:01 And then maybe we need to put up these walls, too, to
12:15:03 protect our businesses.
12:15:04 But maybe that's not the right approach.
12:15:06 Way really liked and way heard was that the ABC,
12:15:10 American association building contractors group, said
12:15:13 they are going to go to Tallahassee and look for a
12:15:15 statewide law that says take down these barriers.
12:15:19 And if everybody took them down, then we would be back
12:15:22 to the level playing field we were before.
12:15:24 I think this free market works.
12:15:26 And I think that overall Tampa is a big player.
12:15:30 We are a big player state regionally.
12:15:32 We are a big player nationally.
12:15:33 And I think that we can compete.
12:15:36 And I'm good with that.
12:15:39 Now am I a supporter of local businesses?
12:15:41 I do shop locally personally and everything else?
12:15:43 I try to.
12:15:44 I really try to. But now we are in a computer age,
12:15:47 And we are all jump on line and we Google shop and
12:15:50 everything else.
12:15:51 You know, who knows what package is going to show up at
12:15:55 my door from Google purchases?
12:15:57 But, anyway, I just think that in the spirit of
12:16:02 everything that's been talked about today, I think
12:16:04 we'll just let it rest for awhile.
12:16:05 But I would like a resolution from this council to
12:16:08 support the ABC motion to eliminate the barriers across
12:16:11 the state.
12:16:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If you are making that motion I'll
12:16:17 second it.
12:16:18 I love my good new best friend today.
12:16:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That is a motion that we support
12:16:23 the ABC resolution in Tallahassee.
12:16:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.
12:16:27 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want to say what I got out of
12:16:31 today was between all the people who responsible that
12:16:34 this is a complex issue, and I felt that there was
12:16:38 interest in talking about how we could help local
12:16:42 I think one of the interesting things pretty much most
12:16:45 of the people who have spoken against preferences were
12:16:47 in the construction area, which we all have agreed, I
12:16:53 think, that we are already doing a pretty good job
12:16:55 there, and that's not the area where we need it.
12:16:58 I think what we heard from the small local businesses
12:17:01 that were in favor of looking at some kind of greater
12:17:05 support or preference was in goods and purchasing.
12:17:09 And the area where we saw we didn't have the highest
12:17:16 percentage there.
12:17:16 So I am disappointed that just because we had -- and I
12:17:20 think that I'm disappointed because no one is looking
12:17:24 at the numbers and the data here.
12:17:27 I mean, we had it presented by the team of
12:17:31 By the way, one of the biggest advocates for local
12:17:34 preference is Carla Jimenez who is sick today and not
12:17:42 able to re-read again how much goes back into the local
12:17:44 economy if you hire locally.
12:17:49 So I think it's absolutely documented that when you are
12:17:51 talking about purchasing goods and services that it is
12:17:54 a benefit especially good to the local economy.
12:17:58 So I'm still happy to talk to anyone who wants to talk
12:18:05 about ways that we can support our local businesses
12:18:10 But it doesn't look like we are going to have any kind
12:18:11 of majority here.
12:18:12 So I guess we'll just have to have lunch and talk.
12:18:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to thank everyone who came
12:18:20 down today.
12:18:21 It's obvious that the local construction firms don't
12:18:26 think this would be advantageous.
12:18:28 I think that the area that council, at least many of us
12:18:33 are most interested, is in the purchase of goods. And
12:18:35 since it's obvious under this administration we are not
12:18:37 going to be able to accomplish this, I think that
12:18:40 individually, rather than through the city, we need to
12:18:43 all commit ourselves to shopping at local restaurants,
12:18:46 local stores, ways that will benefit our local
12:18:50 community, and I think each of us in our lives can try
12:18:53 to do that.
12:18:55 And I just wanted to share, Mr. Spearman wasn't
12:19:00 completely correct.
12:19:01 I handed out to council and to him an ordinance that
12:19:03 was adopted by the city of Sarasota this year.
12:19:05 That is a local preference ordinance.
12:19:07 So thank you all for coming down today.
12:19:08 >>GWEN MILLER: I just want to congratulate Mr.
12:19:15 Spearman and Mr. Hart for the hard work they have done.
12:19:18 I know they did a lot of research and put a lot of time
12:19:21 and effort and I think what they are telling us is the
12:19:23 information they got is true.
12:19:25 And I think they would bring us no false information
12:19:28 because they had to spend more time to do it.
12:19:30 And we always talk about local preference.
12:19:33 We always say support our own.
12:19:35 Now you say we need to go out.
12:19:38 So do we want to help out the city or do we want to
12:19:40 help out other cities?
12:19:41 So we need to come to agreement.
12:19:45 I shop locally.
12:19:46 I don't Google and all that.
12:19:48 So everything I get is local.
12:19:50 I love going to the malls.
12:19:51 I love going to restaurants.
12:19:53 I like to keep everything home so we can bring all that
12:19:57 environment up and bring the economy up so we know the
12:20:00 economy is down.
12:20:01 We are going to bring the economy back.
12:20:04 So I would say let's keep the local preference.
12:20:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
12:20:08 Let me just say to -- this was a very good workshop
12:20:13 A lot of information.
12:20:14 And again, the information received prior to also has
12:20:19 been very beneficial.
12:20:20 Mr. Spearman, Mr. Hart, and Mr. Daignault, you know.
12:20:25 It was very good to meet with them prior to and get all
12:20:29 this information.
12:20:32 We were very much prepared today.
12:20:34 So thank you for all the comments and everything that
12:20:36 have been made today.
12:20:37 I would say, though, for small businesses, again the
12:20:41 issue to you me is the SBLE for small companies, small
12:20:46 I think that's where you have got to focus and that's
12:20:48 where you have to pay more attention to it and look at
12:20:51 this data.
12:20:52 We had a report a few weeks ago, a few months ago,
12:20:55 which I still have some concerns there, but we work
12:20:59 Worked two years on that, a year and a half?
12:21:02 So we just got to keep our eyes on that as well.
12:21:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I just want to say again thanks to
12:21:11 Local is the main thing.
12:21:12 My wife is local.
12:21:13 My kids are local.
12:21:14 My grandkids are all local.
12:21:15 Everybody is local.
12:21:19 And I don't buy anything on the computer because I
12:21:21 don't have one.
12:21:21 And I pay sales tax.
12:21:22 So that's even better local.
12:21:25 And what I'm saying is that thank God that we live in
12:21:29 America, no matter what we think of today's problems,
12:21:31 when you look at the world around us, they are much
12:21:35 worse off than we are.
12:21:36 And Mr. Chairman, I don't know how to end this debate
12:21:39 other than saying maybe we should just receive and file
12:21:41 all the documents.
12:21:46 I'll follow Mr. Dingfelder's lead, my new best friend.
12:21:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion on the floor that we
12:21:52 support the ABC group going to Tallahassee for
12:21:55 statewide, removing the walls in terms of local
12:21:58 It's been moved and seconded.
12:22:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I could have a clarification.
12:22:04 Do you want that in the form of a written resolution to
12:22:05 be brought back to council?
12:22:07 >> Yes.
12:22:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Does that deal with construction?
12:22:10 >> No, my understanding is just remove local
12:22:12 I guess we can get more information on that.
12:22:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I could just have ask the people
12:22:20 who have done the research from ABC.
12:22:22 >> Somebody has it.
12:22:23 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm not going to support that
12:22:26 considering that we came in here to talk about whether
12:22:30 local preference is a good idea, to jump to the other
12:22:34 side and support going to the state level and opposing
12:22:40 them, I find that very surprising motion to even hear
12:22:43 today so I am not going to support that.
12:22:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And I'm not going to support it
12:22:47 because I think it's audacious for us to tell Miami and
12:22:50 Sarasota and Gainesville and Broward and orange what to
12:22:55 I think as a municipal they have their own
12:23:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Would it take away local preference for
12:23:05 Hillsborough County too?
12:23:06 >> It would take away from all the other counties.
12:23:08 Well, what the intent is, is to level the playing
12:23:13 That's the whole intent.
12:23:14 So, therefore, no counties will have it if you do that,
12:23:17 which I support that.
12:23:18 There's a motion.
12:23:19 Moved and seconded.
12:23:20 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
12:23:27 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena and Mulhern
12:23:30 voting no.
12:23:31 >> You have a motion to receive and file.
12:23:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion to receive and file
12:23:37 all the documents received on this subject matter and
12:23:39 all received today.
12:23:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
12:23:43 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
12:23:45 Okay. One last item. That is the other workshop we
12:23:48 need to remove from today's agenda, reschedule at
12:23:52 >> And if it could be removed, motion to remove from
12:23:55 today's agenda and at a future regular meeting.
12:23:58 >> So moved.
12:24:00 >> Second.
12:24:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And then put on the regular agenda.
12:24:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'll bring it up under new business
12:24:07 under the regular agenda for rescheduling.
12:24:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
12:24:10 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
12:24:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: A quick commendation to Ashdod, our
12:24:16 sister city, which I will present next week.
12:24:20 >> So moved.
12:24:22 >> Second.
12:24:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Made by councilwoman Saul-Sena,
12:24:22 seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
12:24:27 I have one item for new business.
12:24:29 And that is a letter from Ron Rotella requesting that
12:24:33 the Westshore alliance be scheduled for a workshop to
12:24:38 present their plan initiative, the business community
12:24:44 in the future.
12:24:47 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor?
12:24:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is that a workshop day?
12:24:54 >> I guess we don't have anything in January.
12:24:57 January or February.
12:24:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry, you have a January
12:25:00 workshop on the 28th and a February workshop on
12:25:02 the --
12:25:03 Is there anything on those dates?
12:25:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: For commendations?
12:25:07 >> No, this is for a workshop on Westshore.
12:25:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Your January workshops, you have a
12:25:15 calendar in front of you.
12:25:16 >> I'll just bring a date back down.
12:25:19 We stand adjourned.
12:25:20 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Before you go, council, I'm sorry,
12:25:22 Mr. Chairman, Mr. Miranda.
12:25:24 Next week, the clerk is going to be bringing you an
12:25:29 option for a calendar, for your coming year.
12:25:32 And today you had one of those situations where you had
12:25:34 a split CRA today/workshop day.
12:25:39 Council, I just would ask you to consider if you are
12:25:41 not happy with the way the scheduling of that works,
12:25:44 perhaps we can consider alternatives.
12:25:45 But you can see the problems that come up --
12:25:48 Yes. Council decides but I suggest that they not do
12:25:53 this in the future because we never finish.
12:25:55 It just creates problems for us.
12:25:57 We stand adjourned.
12:25:58 Thank you.
12:25:59 Recess until this evening at 5:00.
12:26:02 Recess until 5:01.
12:26:06 Thank you.
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