TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, January 7, 2009
9:00 a.m. session
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09:07:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come to
09:07:25 Let me say happy new year to everybody.
09:07:27 And the chair will now yield to the honorable Linda
09:07:30 Saul-Sena for the introduction of our person doing the
09:07:34 >> Good morning, everyone.
09:07:35 It's my pleasure this morning to introduce reverend
09:07:38 James Harnish from the Hyde Park United Methodist
09:07:43 He has been a leader in our community for a number of
09:07:46 He's always spoken to the heart of the needs of the
09:07:49 communities, and it's a great pleasure to have you here
09:07:52 with us at Tampa City Council today as we start the new
09:07:56 Would everyone please rise for the invocation and
09:07:59 remain standing for the pledge of allegiance?
09:08:02 >> Thank you.
09:08:03 And I'll be leading us in words as the prayer of the
09:08:06 opening of the United States Senate, in its first
09:08:09 session in 1947.
09:08:14 Almighty God, if ever we needed your wisdom and
09:08:17 guidance, it is now.
09:08:18 As we begin this new session, standing on the threshold
09:08:23 of a new year, fraught with so many dangerous
09:08:28 opportunities, we pray that you will bless these chosen
09:08:31 by the people, for you know them, now their needs,
09:08:36 their motives, their hopes, and their fears.
09:08:41 Lets us not be frightened by the problems that confront
09:08:44 us but rather give thanks that we have been matched for
09:08:48 the needs of this hour.
09:08:50 Give to them courage and faith and a quiet mind.
09:08:54 Give life to their good intentions.
09:08:57 Bless them in all that is right and correct them in all
09:09:01 that is wrong, in the name of the God who loves and
09:09:07 cares for all of his children.
09:09:10 (Pledge of Allegiance).
09:09:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We will have roll call.
09:09:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
09:09:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:09:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:09:38 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
09:09:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
09:09:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
09:09:41 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, if I may, from this
09:09:46 point going forward there are going to be requests to
09:09:48 the City Council to make a motion to formally adopt
09:09:50 your minutes from the last meeting.
09:09:52 So with council's approval I would ask there be made a
09:09:55 motion to approve the agenda for the regular meeting of
09:09:58 December 17, 2009.
09:09:59 >>GWEN MILLER: So moved.
09:10:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:10:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:10:07 At some point I would like to have a discussion with
09:10:09 the city attorney on that item.
09:10:11 I did not know that had to be done so I would like to
09:10:14 have some discussion relative to that issue, okay?
09:10:23 We have a ceremony item.
09:10:24 The chair will yield to councilman John Dingfelder.
09:10:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Good morning, council, happy new
09:10:37 We are here with the boy scouts of America organization
09:10:40 And it's their 100th anniversary.
09:10:43 So with that, we would have the local chapter, George
09:10:50 And Chris brown.
09:10:52 And they are going to say a few words to us about the
09:10:55 boy scouts organization and the 100th anniversary
09:10:59 and some of the things going on in our community and
09:11:00 then I'll give a commendation, well-deserved.
09:11:03 >> We appreciate the opportunity to appear here before
09:11:07 you and to tell you a little about scouting on behalf
09:11:11 of the 32,000 youth that we have involved in our
09:11:13 program and the 5,000 adult leaders.
09:11:16 We are excited to be here for a part of our 100th
09:11:21 anniversary, 100 years of scouting.
09:11:23 It's a great tradition.
09:11:24 It has more than 100 million alumni come through our
09:11:28 program in the last 100 years.
09:11:29 And we have had just recently 2 million scouts come
09:11:34 about in boy scouts of America as well.
09:11:36 We continue our long legacy of character and duties to
09:11:39 God, duty to country, duty to others, what we teach our
09:11:45 But as we look forward and celebrate the past, we also
09:11:48 help to look forward to the future as well.
09:11:50 And the things that we are doing in this council here,
09:11:54 particularly in Hillsborough County, working with the
09:11:55 Tampa Housing Authority and expanding our scouting
09:11:58 program there with programs, and also with the youth
09:12:03 program they are doing, we are excited about that for
09:12:06 these 16 to 23-year-old dropouts helping teach them
09:12:14 life skills.
09:12:14 We also have a program for the first time of nonviolent
09:12:18 offenders that we work with youth on.
09:12:20 We are looking to and in the process of developing an
09:12:22 outdoor education center to teach science and arts to
09:12:25 our children, as well as the community.
09:12:28 We are excited to have our in-school characterization
09:12:33 program called loading for life that we have here in
09:12:35 the Hillsborough County school system which is doing
09:12:37 really well, and our traditional programs as you all
09:12:39 know which is our cub scout, Boy Scout adventuring.
09:12:44 Our high school programs which is exploring, career
09:12:48 We are looking forward to moving into that.
09:12:50 So we are excited about all these things, and the
09:12:52 events that are coming up.
09:12:53 We are going to present you all a gift.
09:12:55 It's a backpack that we have.
09:12:57 And in there are some materials about the 100th
09:12:59 anniversary, celebration.
09:13:01 Christine is our chairman.
09:13:02 And it talks about the adventure based 100 coming up at
09:13:05 the strawberry festival which is a monster 10,000
09:13:10 square foot exhibit.
09:13:11 We are one of the few cities in the country that is
09:13:14 going to be hosting that on the 12th, 14th of
09:13:17 March, as well as a huge get-together at MOSI in
09:13:20 So we welcome you to come out to all those.
09:13:23 You will have invitations.
09:13:25 We hope you will be a part of this as well.
09:13:28 John, thank you.
09:13:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We wanted to give you this
09:13:32 Before we do that, I wanted to mention, I know there's
09:13:35 at least one eagle scout who was wondering around a
09:13:39 moment ago, our very own Brad Baird, head of our water
09:13:43 I downtown know if any other members were scouters.
09:13:46 My dad was an eagle scout.
09:13:53 Anyway, on behalf of Tampa City Council I would like to
09:13:56 give you this commendation and read as follows: The
09:13:58 boy scouts of America is one of the nation's largest
09:14:01 most prominent based youth development organizations.
09:14:04 Boy scouts of America provides a program that will
09:14:06 build character, trains them in the responsibilities of
09:14:08 participating citizenship and develops personal
09:14:11 For the past 100 years, the organization has helped
09:14:14 build the future leaders of this country by combining
09:14:17 educational activities and life-long values.
09:14:20 Boy scouts of America believes and through a century of
09:14:24 experience knows that helping youth is a key to
09:14:26 building a more conscientious, responsible and
09:14:28 productive society.
09:14:29 Therefore, it's my honor on behalf of Tampa City
09:14:31 Council to recognize the contributions of boy scouts of
09:14:35 America, congratulate you on your 100th
09:14:49 [ Applause ]
09:14:49 Chris is going to give us these backpacks.
09:14:52 Thank you very much.
09:14:53 Just pass them to Marty.
09:14:55 >> For all a of you who were not boy scouts may become
09:15:05 boy scouts.
09:15:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you so much.
09:15:17 >> Very nice.
09:15:19 Thank you.
09:15:19 >> Thank you very much.
09:15:33 Good to see all of the distinguished guests we have
09:15:37 with us today.
09:15:37 Governor Martinez, school board members, mayor, sue
09:15:47 Candy Olson.
09:15:48 Good to see all of you here today.
09:15:50 I'm sure you are here on item 26, I'm sure.
09:15:53 How did I know that?
09:15:56 Okay, we'll review our agenda at this time.
09:15:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Good morning, members of City
09:16:03 Happy new year.
09:16:03 Before you, you have the addendum for today's agenda.
09:16:07 The first request would be obviously you had the
09:16:11 ceremonial item added on as part of the motion to
09:16:14 approve the agenda to make that formal to have that
09:16:21 added onto the agenda.
09:16:22 Likewise, you have a subject matter that's related to
09:16:26 item 47 which is the adoption of the revised calendar.
09:16:29 So when that item number 47 is taken up.
09:16:33 You have received a copy of the revised calendar from
09:16:36 city clerk Shirley Foxx-Knowles, and that would require
09:16:39 your approval to amend your calendar at that time.
09:16:44 You also have a request for a special meeting of City
09:16:46 Council of January 14th by assistant chief
09:16:50 assistant stern Sal Territo who is present here.
09:16:54 If he could come up at this point and make that request
09:16:56 of council, if that could be a separate motion formally
09:17:02 >>SAL TERRITO: What I am requesting is a special
09:17:04 meeting of City Council immediately before your CRA
09:17:06 meeting next week.
09:17:07 We have an item that is coming up that requires a
09:17:09 approval by both.
09:17:11 So we would just like to take that request, if we may.
09:17:14 >>GWEN MILLER: So moved.
09:17:16 >> Second.
09:17:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:17:19 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:17:23 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.
09:17:25 Item 35 at the time it's taken up, you have received a
09:17:27 substitute ordinance per council's direction.
09:17:31 And we would ask that that substitute ordinance be
09:17:35 taken up at that time for item 35.
09:17:38 Item 44 is a request by Karen Palus for a continuance
09:17:43 on the item regarding the tree canopy.
09:17:46 Likewise, on item 45, you have received a memo from
09:17:49 Cynthia Miller requesting continuance on the report on
09:17:52 the diversion program.
09:17:53 Both have suggested, council, January 21st.
09:17:57 However, council, I would point out to you that on that
09:18:01 day you already have nine staff reports scheduled.
09:18:06 I have had an opportunity to speak to the chief of
09:18:08 staff Darrell Smith.
09:18:10 If it were council's pleasure to move that to February
09:18:12 4th when you only have one staff report scheduled,
09:18:16 the administration would have no objection.
09:18:18 So is it council's pleasure to move it?
09:18:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
09:18:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
09:18:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
09:18:27 >>MARTIN SHELBY: For both items?
09:18:29 >> Yes, both items.
09:18:29 >> And other than that I am not aware of any additions
09:18:32 or corrections to today's agenda and I submit it for
09:18:35 your approval.
09:18:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: On the new business I want to add the
09:18:38 commendation to plant football and volleyball team for
09:18:41 their accomplishment.
09:18:43 Over the last, what, three out of four years being
09:18:50 Miranda and did that without you playing for them.
09:18:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yeah, I'm a little old.
09:18:55 We can take it up under new business.
09:19:04 Motion to approve the agenda.
09:19:05 >> So moved.
09:19:06 >> Second.
09:19:09 (Motion carried).
09:19:10 >> We now open the floor for public comment.
09:19:13 Anyone desiring to address council other than the
09:19:19 public hearing item may come forward at this time.
09:19:21 Any item other than the public may come make comment at
09:19:24 this time and address council.
09:19:25 Three minutes.
09:19:27 State your name and address for the record.
09:19:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to point out to the
09:19:32 education foundation members that want to speak that
09:19:34 this is the time.
09:19:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
09:19:36 If they want to the speak at all.
09:19:37 I don't think you will have any problem.
09:19:46 >> I'm here in two capacities, one as the West Tampa
09:19:53 Chamber of Commerce and a school board member.
09:19:55 First let me say that I served on the Tampa museum
09:19:57 educational advisory board, and we met and it was an
09:20:01 excellent building, very, very functional.
09:20:04 I'm here today as the education chair of the West Tampa
09:20:07 Chamber of Commerce Board of Directors.
09:20:09 All of the schools in West Tampa, Blake high school,
09:20:13 Stewart middle, just elementary, Dunbar, West Tampa
09:20:18 elementary, McFarlin, Ivy elementary and Tampa Bay
09:20:24 All are members and partners of the West Tampa Chamber
09:20:27 of Commerce.
09:20:28 Imagine how much these schools, teachers and students
09:20:32 would benefit if the Hillsborough education foundation
09:20:36 teaching tools for Hillsborough schools was located in
09:20:39 their immediate neighborhood.
09:20:41 The Centro Espanol is ideally located between two major
09:20:47 arteries and near the interstate.
09:20:50 So it would be easily accessible to staff throughout
09:20:53 the district.
09:20:54 It would house valuable education resource in a
09:20:58 historic building in a multi-ethnic community.
09:21:01 The Centro Espanol would allow the Hillsborough
09:21:05 education foundation to consolidate its staff, offices,
09:21:09 services and save resources that would allow more of
09:21:11 those hard to come by resources to be redirected to our
09:21:15 I sincerely hope that you will see your way clear to
09:21:17 provide an outstanding facility to a very supportive
09:21:20 organization that serves our district's students and
09:21:25 We'll be eternally grateful.
09:21:28 Thanks for the opportunity to represent both the West
09:21:30 Tampa Chamber of Commerce and the Hillsborough County
09:21:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And I would suggest after public
09:21:35 comment let's take that item up so that they can be
09:21:37 here while we a playoff that item, give them the
09:21:41 Thank you.
09:21:41 >> Pastor Frank Williams, paradise Baptist church.
09:21:52 I think you are all aware of who I am.
09:21:54 I'm here because I'm very offended at what the City
09:21:59 Council is thinking about praying in the name of Jesus.
09:22:01 I want to read some scripture to you so you can
09:22:04 understand where I'm coming from.
09:22:06 Let not every man on his own thing but every man also
09:22:11 on the things of others.
09:22:14 Let his mind be on you which also is in Christ being in
09:22:17 the form of God, and make no separate representation to
09:22:24 perform in the form of a servant made in the likeness
09:22:28 of man, and being be humbled himself and be obedient
09:22:36 unto death even the death of the cross.
09:22:39 Where O God I highly exalted him and given him a name
09:22:44 which is above every man, that at the name of Jesus
09:22:48 every knee shall bow, things in heaven and things on
09:22:53 earth, and every tongue should confess Jesus the Lord
09:22:57 to the glory of God our father.
09:23:00 We cannot honor prayer to God without the name of Jesus
09:23:04 Whether you all accept it or not, this is God's work.
09:23:08 Another thing I want to talk about.
09:23:12 I would read the scripture to you so you all can
09:23:15 Homosexuality is an abomination to God.
09:23:18 Whether you accept it or not, what you do behind closed
09:23:22 doors is your business, but don't pass no law for
09:23:26 people to legalize homosexuals.
09:23:28 If you want to pass a law, pass a law for children's
09:23:31 rights, homeless rights, and you all pass a right for
09:23:37 dogs, cats, snakes and everything else.
09:23:39 And another thing.
09:23:40 Pass a law for the believers' rights.
09:23:44 We who believe in Jesus Christ, you all are trying to
09:23:47 hinder us from preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ.
09:23:51 And God has warned me he will bring down on all of you.
09:23:56 Thank you.
09:23:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's I don't have any recollection of
09:24:14 Since I got here that has not happened.
09:24:16 That's number one.
09:24:17 Number two is I believe that council's position is that
09:24:22 we are very diverse in this community, and that it's
09:24:25 important for us not to take any particular
09:24:32 denomination staff for anyone.
09:24:34 Therefore we try to be ecumenical.
09:24:39 I don't know of any other position that I know of that
09:24:41 council has elevated or highlighted other than that.
09:24:44 So I just want the record to reflect that.
09:24:47 Next speaker.
09:24:47 >> Good morning Mr. Chairman and City Council.
09:24:53 Thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today.
09:24:55 My name is Mike Poland, a partner with Ernst & Young,
09:24:58 I'm a Tampa resident, Hillsborough County resident.
09:25:01 I'm also the chair of the Hillsborough education
09:25:03 foundation volunteer Board of Directors.
09:25:06 We have a board of over 30 members of the community,
09:25:09 business leaders, civic leaders, many of whom,
09:25:12 Mr. Chairman, recognized this morning as we started our
09:25:15 meeting, and we are all really involved for one primary
09:25:19 We all care very deeply about education.
09:25:21 And if you look at studies, studies prove that quality
09:25:24 of life in the community is approved by the quality of
09:25:28 the education system so we are deeply concerned about
09:25:30 working with our schools to improve the education in
09:25:36 Hillsborough County.
09:25:37 The foundation is a very fiscally responsible
09:25:42 We have an annual audit, an audit committee of folks
09:25:46 who are recognized experts in the community.
09:25:49 We have very conservative budgeting and we have a very
09:25:52 strong board governance a.
09:25:53 One thing that really supports the stability of the
09:25:56 organization and our governance is I'm sure all of you
09:26:00 are aware the bill and Melinda gates foundation grant
09:26:03 that was provided to Hillsborough County schools.
09:26:05 We are serving as the fiscal agent for that, and we
09:26:11 were guided by the gates foundation in that process.
09:26:14 I the I that supports the stability that we have as an
09:26:17 We have also been in this community for 25 years,
09:26:20 supporting the Hillsborough County schools.
09:26:21 So we have been around, and we expect to be here for
09:26:25 the future, too.
09:26:26 We also have a proven track record in these types of
09:26:30 symbiotic relationships.
09:26:31 Probably the best thing we can point to is nature's
09:26:34 I think many of you are familiar with nature's
09:26:38 We worked with the school district, SWFWMD and other
09:26:40 leaders to improve nature's classroom, raise money for
09:26:43 that, in public donations and rebuild that into a
09:26:47 tremendous assets for the community and turn it back
09:26:50 over to SWFWMD and the schools.
09:26:52 So we really appreciate your support.
09:26:54 I also would like to recognize the support of Mark Huey
09:26:58 and Jeanette Fenton who worked diligently with us to
09:27:02 negotiate what we think is a very fair lease for both
09:27:05 I appreciate your attention to this matter today.
09:27:07 Thank you.
09:27:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
09:27:10 >> Good morning, chair and council members.
09:27:16 I appreciate the time to come and speak to you.
09:27:18 I'm Mary Ellen Nealy, superintendent of Hillsborough
09:27:22 county schools.
09:27:24 This is a great relationship with the education
09:27:26 Let me kind of clarify and point out from -- some of
09:27:29 the great things that are happening, that will be
09:27:31 happening, right here in the middle of the community.
09:27:34 In a very centralized location which will get a lot of
09:27:37 attention from our teachers.
09:27:40 Just to remind you, we are the largest employer in
09:27:42 Hillsborough County with 27,000 employees, 17,000 of
09:27:46 which are teachers.
09:27:47 The teaching tools program is a program that is run by
09:27:52 the foundation.
09:27:54 It was started a few years ago to support teachers, and
09:27:58 it allows the foundation to access materials that can
09:28:02 be used in our classrooms and be targeted for in
09:28:07 particular those teachers that work with students in
09:28:11 And it opens up the availability of all of those
09:28:16 Now, the foundation has run it.
09:28:18 They have been very, very proactive in making sure that
09:28:21 they have those materials available.
09:28:23 And this center, located in a very centralized place in
09:28:28 a beautiful historic building, will be the focus of the
09:28:32 availability of those materials for all a of our
09:28:35 They come to after school hours, they can collect
09:28:40 things for their students and then take them back.
09:28:42 They send letters to all of the people that donate
09:28:45 those materials.
09:28:46 And it is a great opportunity for you as City Council
09:28:50 to support the combination of win-win, I believe, for
09:28:56 all of us.
09:28:57 A very historic building that will be used constantly
09:29:00 by the very people that you want to support in the
09:29:02 community, that is our teachers and our students.
09:29:05 So I really appreciate the support, not only of the
09:29:08 foundation that 25 years has been a growing
09:29:11 relationship of strength.
09:29:14 We are moving forward in many different areas, but this
09:29:17 is an important opportunity for the foundation to
09:29:20 establish themselves here in the center of our
09:29:23 community, and to provide resources for our students.
09:29:26 So thank you very much.
09:29:27 I appreciate your support.
09:29:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:29:32 Anyone else from the public?
09:29:33 Anyone else wishing to address council?
09:29:36 Seeing none, why don't we take up item 26.
09:29:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It's so nice when there is a great
09:29:49 relationship between a need and a resource.
09:29:51 And the Centro Espanol represents a terrific
09:29:55 The historic building is so beautiful, and I'm so
09:29:59 pleased, it will be renovated beautifully and I know
09:30:09 you are raise money to put back the beautiful marble
09:30:12 staircase that has disappeared.
09:30:15 Your programs support the children in our community.
09:30:17 And bringing teachers to such a delightful environment
09:30:21 to get the supplies I think will subtly encourage them
09:30:26 to come back more, bring more supplies back to their
09:30:28 schools, encourage donors to give more, because it's
09:30:31 such an icon in West Tampa.
09:30:33 And the whole community.
09:30:35 So it's a win-win-win.
09:30:37 Thank you, Mr. Huey, for making it happen.
09:30:39 And I understand that after five years we should be
09:30:41 able to get the resources together to redo the theater
09:30:44 as a separate project, that you will build on another
09:30:48 part of the property.
09:30:49 So that again would benefit the community.
09:30:51 So I'm completely supportive.
09:30:53 And thank you all for coming down do City Council this
09:30:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'm just happy that that was a
09:31:02 partnership between the county and the city really to
09:31:05 save this.
09:31:06 A few years ago we almost lost it.
09:31:09 So it was a partnership between the county and the city
09:31:12 coming together now with the education foundation.
09:31:17 It's a wonderful opportunity.
09:31:18 So thank you all so very much.
09:31:20 Mr. Huey and administration have done a good job,
09:31:24 Jeanette, working out the details of this, and so that
09:31:27 it will continue to be a resource in the community and
09:31:29 continue to be used.
09:31:31 And I'm happy to support this today.
09:31:36 Councilman Caetano, do you want to move the motion
09:31:39 since that is part of your committee?
09:31:41 >>GWEN MILLER: 26.
09:31:46 To move 26.
09:31:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Just make a motion.
09:31:56 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Move item number 26.
09:31:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
09:32:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
09:32:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
09:32:05 All in favor?
09:32:06 So moved and ordered.
09:32:08 Thank you very much.
09:32:09 Thank you all for being here.
09:32:13 Do we have any requests for reconsideration?
09:32:16 Any legislative matter?
09:32:19 Reconsideration on any legislative matter?
09:32:27 Seeing none, then we'll move to committee reports.
09:32:31 Public safety, Councilwoman Miller.
09:32:33 >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:32:34 Move resolution 1 through 4.
09:32:36 >> Second.
09:32:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Seconded by --
09:32:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
09:32:46 Parks and recreation, Linda Saul-Sena?
09:32:49 She stepped out.
09:32:50 Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:32:52 >>MARY MULHERN: I move items 5 through 12.
09:32:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
09:33:00 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:33:02 Public works.
09:33:03 Councilman Miranda.
09:33:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move items 13 through 15.
09:33:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Second.
09:33:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:33:14 Finance Committee.
09:33:15 Councilwoman Mary Mulhern.
09:33:17 >>MARY MULHERN: I move item 16 through 23.
09:33:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
09:33:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:33:27 Building and zoning.
09:33:28 Councilman Caetano.
09:33:29 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Move 24 through 28 excluding 26
09:33:37 which we have already done.
09:33:37 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
09:33:39 (Motion carried).
09:33:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Set the public hearings for item 29
09:33:47 through 31.
09:33:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
09:33:49 (Motion carried).
09:33:58 >> The next item is public hearings, 9:30.
09:34:03 Anyone wishing to address council on item 32?
09:34:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to open 32.
09:34:11 >>GWEN MILLER: That's 32 through 35.
09:34:14 Anyone wishing to address council on item 32?
09:34:17 >> Move to close.
09:34:18 >> Second.
09:34:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Dinghy was reading these audits
09:34:34 yesterday by Mr. STOUT and his staff, and I just wanted
09:34:38 to commend them.
09:34:39 They are really very thorough. They go into each of
09:34:42 these departments and look to see what the glitches
09:34:43 are, and they always find a few, you know, because
09:34:47 nothing is ever perfect.
09:34:49 And then the department responds by saying how they are
09:34:52 going to fix this, that, and this.
09:34:55 Anyway, I just wanted to compliment Mr. Strout and his
09:34:59 I think the audit departments are kind of unsung heroes
09:35:03 in government.
09:35:05 Going to number 32 I will be glad to read the following
09:35:08 ordinance for second reading and adoption and approval.
09:35:10 An ordinance of the City of Tampa amending City of
09:35:14 Tampa code of ordinances chapter 9 code enforcement
09:35:19 section 9-4, providing for severability, providing for
09:35:22 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
09:35:24 effective date.
09:35:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:35:27 Record your vote, please.
09:36:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The machine is cold.
09:36:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Should we vote again?
09:36:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Record your vote, please.
09:36:33 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
09:36:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 33.
09:36:37 Anyone wish to address council on item 33?
09:36:41 >> Move to close.
09:36:42 >> Second.
09:36:42 (Motion carried).
09:36:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:36:46 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance being presented
09:36:49 for second reading and adoption, an ordinance of the
09:36:52 city of Tampa, Florida amending chapter 12 of the City
09:36:54 of Tampa code amending section 12-17.
09:36:57 Definitions, words defined, amending section 12-26,
09:37:01 unlawful employment practices, amending section 12-36,
09:37:07 exemptions, amending section 12-61 (2) purpose,
09:37:14 amending section 12-64, unlawful practices.
09:37:17 Amending section 12-72.
09:37:20 Definitions, words defined, amending section 12-81.
09:37:24 Sale or rental; amending section 12-82, by replacing
09:37:29 sale or rental to handicapped persons to sale or rental
09:37:32 to disabled persons, amending section 12-83-A.
09:37:36 Residential real estate related transactions amending
09:37:39 section 12-84.
09:37:41 Brokerage services and amending section 12-101-E.
09:37:46 Housing, by replacing the term handicapped with the
09:37:49 term disability as well as any grammatical variations
09:37:53 of the terms occurring therein providing for
09:37:55 severability, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
09:37:58 conflict, providing an effective date.
09:38:02 Record your vote, please.
09:38:03 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
09:38:33 >> Item 34.
09:38:35 Anyone wishing to address council on item 34?
09:38:38 >> Move to close.
09:38:39 >> Second.
09:38:40 (Motion carried).
09:38:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move an ordinance presented for
09:38:46 second reading and adoption, an ordinance of the city
09:38:48 of Tampa, Florida amending section 22-291 City of Tampa
09:38:53 code of ordinances by adopting the 2009 edition of the
09:38:56 transportation division technical manual, providing for
09:38:58 repeal of section 17.5-170 and section 25-156 City of
09:39:04 Tampa code of ordinances and all other ordinances in
09:39:07 conflict providing for severability, providing an
09:39:09 effective date.
09:39:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:39:13 Record your vote.
09:39:21 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder being
09:39:23 absent at vote.
09:39:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 35.
09:39:28 A question on item 35?
09:39:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
09:39:33 Ms. Cole, good morning.
09:39:34 Happy new year.
09:39:35 When somebody is building a new house and they are
09:39:39 building a driveway made of, let's say, paving
09:39:42 material, and they encounter the city's public
09:39:46 sidewalk, how does this ordinance address that?
09:39:50 Do they have to stop for the sidewalk?
09:39:52 Or can they put their paving material where the
09:39:54 sidewalk is?
09:39:56 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
09:39:57 The technical manual wouldn't specifically address that
09:40:02 I'm not really sure how -- that is something that is
09:40:05 typically handled by construction services and I'm not
09:40:08 really sure how they handle the interface between the
09:40:10 sidewalk and the paver situation.
09:40:12 >> It isn't addressed in our technical standard?
09:40:15 >> Our technical standards are considered the minimum
09:40:17 technical standards.
09:40:19 And so what would be addressed is whether or not
09:40:23 sidewalk or pavers, what's addressed is the minimum
09:40:26 standard the area of walkway, sidewalk area, which
09:40:30 meets ADA requirements.
09:40:32 So I think if somebody came in and showed that the
09:40:35 pavers complied with the ADA requirements, then it
09:40:38 could potentially -- how that has previously been
09:40:42 addressed, construction services, that I can't answer
09:40:46 the question.
09:40:47 >> I have received some comments from people in
09:40:49 neighborhoods who felt that it was confusing the fact
09:40:53 that the pavers took over and there wasn't a sidewalk
09:40:57 there, that it made it seem as if it was private rather
09:41:00 than public, and gave the people on the sidewalk less
09:41:05 assurance that they would be protected.
09:41:07 So you are saying we don't need to address in the our
09:41:09 technical manual, that we can address that as a
09:41:11 department policy?
09:41:13 >>JULIA COLE: I mean, yes, and you can handle it --
09:41:16 yes, you can handle it as a department policy.
09:41:18 If it's something the City Council feels needs to be an
09:41:21 enhancement to the minimum technical standard then I
09:41:24 recommend we put something in our code because again
09:41:25 the technical, the whole exercise that we went through
09:41:28 with having a technical manual that simply identifies
09:41:31 the minimum standard, that you can never go below
09:41:35 unless there's some good engineering reason why.
09:41:37 If there's something that you want to do over and above
09:41:39 that, then I would recommend that.
09:41:42 What we do is put something in our chapter 22 that
09:41:45 indicates that the situation where you can -- you have
09:41:49 to have an actual sidewalk that is connected up to the
09:41:52 remainder of the sidewalk through the same materials,
09:41:55 something like that.
09:41:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
09:41:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public wish to address
09:41:59 council on item 35?
09:42:00 Anyone from the public?
09:42:02 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
09:42:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:42:04 (Motion carried).
09:42:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to adopt the following ordinance
09:42:10 upon second reading, a substitute ordinance of the city
09:42:14 of Tampa, Florida making comprehensive revisions to
09:42:16 chapter 22, streets and sidewalks, of the City of Tampa
09:42:19 code of ordinances, repealing section 22-304 and 22-305
09:42:26 in their entirety, creating section 22-304, functional
09:42:31 classification of roadways, creating section 22-305,
09:42:36 vitrified brick streets standards, amending section
09:42:39 22-314, driveways-location, design and construction
09:42:44 standards, repealing section 22-319 in its entirety,
09:42:48 creating section 22-319, alternative design exception,
09:42:53 providing for severability, providing for repeal of all
09:42:56 ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.
09:42:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:43:01 Record your vote.
09:43:01 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
09:43:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We need to open items 36 through 43.
09:43:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, if you can, I have a
09:43:24 question, Mr. Chairman.
09:43:25 Can you please open 36 and 37 together?
09:43:30 Those are related.
09:43:32 36 is a first reading.
09:43:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: My suggestion is open all the way up to
09:43:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved 36 to 43.
09:43:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
09:43:44 Okay, we'll take up 36 and 37 together.
09:43:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And my belief, Mr. Chairman, is we
09:43:48 will have witnesses that will require to be sworn.
09:43:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone addressing council at this
09:43:52 point, will you all please stand?
09:43:54 If you are going to be addressing council on item 36
09:43:57 through 43, please stand at this time and be sworn.
09:43:59 (Oath administered by Clerk).
09:44:10 SPEAKER: Item 36 and 37 we'll take together.
09:44:13 Continued public hearing.
09:44:14 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
09:44:15 What you have in front of you is the vacation request
09:44:18 for the University of Tampa which is north "A" street
09:44:22 which I have placed on the Elmo, I think is still what
09:44:27 it's called.
09:44:30 At the last hearing on this matter there was a request
09:44:32 of City Council from the legal department to work with
09:44:35 the University of Tampa to deal with an issue which was
09:44:38 raised at your last public hearing relating to a bus
09:44:43 operator that maybe utilizes north "A" street for the
09:44:45 purposes of dropping off students ath and picking up
09:44:49 students for bus transportation services for a variety
09:44:51 of reasons.
09:44:53 The concern that was raised is whether or not by having
09:44:56 this portion of north "A" vacated and turning it into a
09:44:59 public transportation easement would in any way impact
09:45:02 that operator's ability to do what I believe they are
09:45:05 currently doing.
09:45:08 I have had an opportunity to look at our easement, did
09:45:12 a little bit of additional research on what is a
09:45:15 vacation request because it's something that I never
09:45:17 thought about in this context.
09:45:19 The way our code is drafted and the way that public
09:45:22 transportation easement is drafted, it's drafted in a
09:45:27 broad way as they typically are so that all of the City
09:45:29 of Tampa codes as it relates to public rights-of-way
09:45:32 would have the same force and effect.
09:45:36 For example, for this roadway, as I indicated to you at
09:45:39 the last hearing, there are no parking signs on this
09:45:41 area north "A" streets given the narrowness of the
09:45:51 roadway, et cetera.
09:45:52 However the way our chapter 15, parking code, is
09:45:55 drafted is while there might not be an allowance for
09:45:59 parking, the opportunity to stop a vehicle for the
09:46:01 purposes of allowing passengers to come on and off of a
09:46:05 vehicle, and for a short period of time while that
09:46:08 process is occurring, would not be considered parking
09:46:10 under our code.
09:46:11 Therefore, this bus operator today is stopping on north
09:46:17 "A" for the purposes of -- the purposes of ingress and
09:46:22 egress onto their bus.
09:46:23 That would not be a violation of the code today.
09:46:27 And if City Council were to approve this vacation,
09:46:31 which would also have the effect of approving the
09:46:36 transportation easement that code would have the exact
09:46:38 same force and effect.
09:46:39 So it's really something.
09:46:41 And I think we have said this previously, but I wanted
09:46:43 to reiterate that the movement of this property from
09:46:51 right-of-way to a transportation easement for the
09:46:52 purposes of enforcing those provisions of the code
09:46:55 would have no impact.
09:46:56 I have had this conversation with Mr. Grandoff, and I
09:46:59 believe he agrees with my assessment of this.
09:47:02 I would ask if he had any comments to go ahead and
09:47:04 address it to council.
09:47:06 But that was in line with what your request was, and I
09:47:10 hope that answers all your questions.
09:47:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
09:47:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Julia.
09:47:19 I guess my only question remaining on that would be --
09:47:26 and perhaps it's rhetorical -- is the university
09:47:29 therefore couldn't install no stopping or standing
09:47:32 signs of their own along the sides of this road to try
09:47:36 and modify behavior along there.
09:47:39 Is that correct?
09:47:40 >> It would be my opinion that they couldn't do
09:47:42 anything that would impact our easement interest, and
09:47:45 our easement interest is drafted in such a way that it
09:47:47 would be allowed under our code, and if they did
09:47:51 something, part of that right-of-way that would impact
09:47:53 what I think our easement interest is, I think we would
09:47:56 have the right to tell them to take those down or stop
09:47:59 that level of enforcement.
09:48:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
09:48:02 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: Suite 3700 Bank of America Plaza.
09:48:11 I represent university of Tampa this morning on this
09:48:15 And I agree with Ms. Cole's opinion to you.
09:48:18 We request your approval this morning.
09:48:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other comments from council?
09:48:25 Any questions from council?
09:48:28 Yes, sir, public comment.
09:48:29 >> Adam Reynolds, 14341 Diplomat Drive, Tampa, Florida.
09:48:33 I was here last time and shared my concerns.
09:48:36 I did have an opportunity to meet with Mr. Grandoff and
09:48:40 a representative from U.T.
09:48:43 So they explained it to me.
09:48:44 And as long as, you know, my understanding is correct
09:48:47 that there wouldn't be the opportunity for them to
09:48:51 close the street, because I did hear that the last
09:48:55 They said that's not their intent.
09:48:57 But apparently that would have to come back to council
09:48:59 if they wanted to close it.
09:49:02 And as long as we have the opportunity to still -- it's
09:49:07 a one-way only street so we can't enter that way.
09:49:10 So as long as we have the opportunity to exit, then I
09:49:12 don't have a problem with it as long as we still have
09:49:14 the same, you know, abilities to perform our duties as
09:49:18 we have now.
09:49:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just want to thank everybody for
09:49:23 working together and communicating, and it sounds like
09:49:26 we have come up with something that would accommodate
09:49:28 the university, accommodate the gentleman and keep the
09:49:32 brick streets.
09:49:40 Move to close.
09:49:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else from the public?
09:49:42 Is there a second?
09:49:43 >> Second.
09:49:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:49:46 All in favor?
09:49:47 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
09:49:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:49:55 Number 36.
09:49:57 I would like to move the substitute ordinance for first
09:49:59 reading, a substitute ordinance vacating closing
09:50:02 continuing and abandoning a certain right-of-way all
09:50:04 that portion of north "A" street lying north of Kennedy
09:50:06 Boulevard, south of north "B" street, east of North
09:50:09 Boulevard and west of Brevard Avenue and all that
09:50:12 alleyway lying north of Kennedy Boulevard, south of
09:50:15 north "A" street, east of North Boulevard, and west of
09:50:17 Brevard Avenue, in Hayden's subdivision, the same being
09:50:21 more fully described in section 2 hereof subject to the
09:50:23 reservation of certain easements as set forth herein,
09:50:26 subject to certain covenants, conditions or
09:50:28 restrictions as more particularly described herein,
09:50:31 providing an effective date.
09:50:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded by councilman
09:50:35 Councilman Dingfelder.
09:50:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ms. Cole, just to confirm, we
09:50:41 modified the language to insure that the process would
09:50:48 come back to council which is a little different than
09:50:51 the normal process?
09:50:52 >> That's correct. If they want to do anything to the
09:50:54 transportation easement it would require an amendment
09:50:56 to the actual ordinance.
09:50:57 >> From council?
09:50:58 >> From council.
09:50:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:51:04 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
09:51:06 The second reading of the ordinance will be held
09:51:09 January 21st at 9:30 a.m.
09:51:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 37.
09:51:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move the resolution.
09:51:16 >> Second.
09:51:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I just want to confirm with Ms. Cole.
09:51:21 That item, if it can be 37, held for second reading and
09:51:24 adoption hearing so it runs together.
09:51:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Continue it?
09:51:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It would be appropriate to do that so
09:51:32 it can be cleaned up at the same time.
09:51:35 >> What date?
09:51:37 >>THE CLERK: January 21st at 9:30 a.m.
09:51:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to continue 37 to that date.
09:51:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:51:46 All in favor?
09:51:48 Item 38.
09:51:57 Item 38.
09:51:58 Item 38.
09:51:58 Anyone wishing to address council on item 38?
09:52:01 >> Move to close.
09:52:02 >> Second.
09:52:02 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: An ordinance being presented for
09:52:04 second reading and adoption, an ordinance approving a
09:52:07 historic preservation property tax exemption
09:52:09 application relative to the restoration, renovation,
09:52:12 rehabilitation of certain property owned by Peter
09:52:14 Murphy and chase Clark located at 2506 north 12th
09:52:18 street formerly 2502 north 13th street, Tampa,
09:52:22 Florida in the Ybor City historic district, based upon
09:52:26 certain findings, providing for notice to the property
09:52:27 appraiser of Hillsborough County, providing for
09:52:30 severability, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
09:52:34 conflict, providing an effective date.
09:52:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded by councilman
09:52:39 Record your vote, please.
09:52:46 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
09:52:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 39.
09:52:52 Anyone wishing to address council on item 39?
09:52:55 >> Move to close.
09:52:56 >> Second.
09:52:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:52:59 (Motion carried)
09:53:01 Councilman Dingfelder.
09:53:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I move the following ordinance
09:53:07 adoption on second reading, an ordinance approving an
09:53:11 historic preservation property tax exemption
09:53:15 application relative to the restoration, renovation or
09:53:19 rehabilitation of certain property owned by Peter
09:53:20 Murphy and chase Clark located 2707 north 19th
09:53:24 street formerly 2506 north 15th street Tampa,
09:53:27 Florida in the Ybor City district based upon certain
09:53:30 findings providing for notice to the property appraiser
09:53:33 of Hillsborough County providing for severability,
09:53:35 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict,
09:53:37 providing an effective date.
09:53:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:53:52 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
09:53:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 40.
09:53:58 Anyone from the public wish to address council on item
09:54:04 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land Development Coordination.
09:54:06 Item number 40, 41 and 42 on your agenda requires
09:54:16 certified site plans.
09:54:17 I do have those certified by the zoning administrator.
09:54:20 I will provide them to the clerk.
09:54:21 If you have any additional questions I'm available.
09:54:25 And 43, also.
09:54:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else from the public?
09:54:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
09:54:36 >> Second.
09:54:37 (Motion carried).
09:54:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Did you need to say something?
09:54:40 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
09:54:41 I did want you to know the issue which was raised on
09:54:44 item 40, we have resolved it.
09:54:46 We have resolved the issue that got raised during the
09:54:48 public hearing.
09:54:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern on item 40.
09:54:52 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance being presented
09:54:55 for second reading and adoption, an ordinance approving
09:54:57 a special use permit S-2 approving a place of religious
09:55:01 assembly in an RS-60 residential single-family zoning
09:55:05 district in the general vicinity of 1801 and 1803 east
09:55:08 shadow lawn Avenue and 1802 east McBerry street in
09:55:12 the city of Tampa, Florida as more particularly
09:55:14 described in section 1 hereof providing an effective
09:55:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
09:55:21 Record your vote, please.
09:55:28 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
09:55:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 41.
09:55:33 Anyone from the public wish to address council?
09:55:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to close.
09:55:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:55:40 (Motion carried).
09:55:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move an ordinance approving a
09:55:43 special use S-2 approving a public school expansion in
09:55:47 an RS-100 residential single-family zoning district in
09:55:49 the general vicinity of 2415 south Himes Avenue, city
09:55:53 of Tampa, Florida more particularly described in
09:55:55 section 1 hereof providing an effective date.
09:55:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
09:56:00 Record your vote, please.
09:56:10 >> Motion carried unanimously.
09:56:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 42.
09:56:15 Item 42.
09:56:16 Anyone wishing toe address council?
09:56:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
09:56:21 >> Second.
09:56:21 (Motion carried).
09:56:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to adopt the following ordinance
09:56:25 upon second reading.
09:56:26 An ordinance amending ordinance 2006-188 passed and
09:56:32 ordained by the City Council of the City of Tampa on
09:56:35 August 3, 2006, correcting a scrivener's error by
09:56:39 substituting the approved site plan dated July 17,
09:56:43 2006, for the old site plan dated July 6, 2006,
09:56:47 attached to the ordinance that was supplied in error,
09:56:50 providing for severability, providing an effective
09:56:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded by
09:56:54 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
09:56:55 All in favor record your vote.
09:56:56 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
09:57:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 43.
09:57:08 Anyone from the public?
09:57:09 >> Move to close.
09:57:10 >> Second.
09:57:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
09:57:15 Item 43.
09:57:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move the following
09:57:18 ordinance for second reading and adoption.
09:57:19 An ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity
09:57:21 of 2402 west state street in the city of Tampa, Florida
09:57:25 and more particularly described in section 1 from
09:57:27 zoning district classifications RO-1, residential
09:57:32 office, office, business professional, to PD, planned
09:57:35 development, office, medical and business professional,
09:57:37 providing an effective date.
09:57:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
09:57:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No, Mr. Dingfelder.
09:57:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:57:48 One of them.
09:57:51 Councilman Dingfelder.
09:58:02 >> Motion carried unanimously.
09:58:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 44 and 45 have been continued.
09:58:11 They have already been continued.
09:58:20 Can we move these items up you?
09:58:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, if you wish -- 46 and
09:58:31 47 we could take now if you wish, Mr. Chairman.
09:58:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move 46, substitute resolution.
09:58:50 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to say that this was a
09:58:55 big surprise to me, the motion at the end of our -- I
09:58:59 think we had several discussions about local
09:59:04 And there was a predominance of people from the
09:59:08 building industry and a few people from the Chamber of
09:59:12 Commerce at the last meeting.
09:59:15 There weren't a lot of people here.
09:59:17 But I just don't feel that this is an appropriate thing
09:59:21 for us as a City Council to recommend to the state that
09:59:26 they limit municipalities and localities from deciding
09:59:33 on whether they want to have local preferences.
09:59:36 So I'm very up comfortable with this.
09:59:40 And if it passes, I hope that the letter to Tallahassee
09:59:46 will include my objection.
09:59:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
09:59:53 I share councilman's concern.
09:59:58 We shouldn't tell what the municipalities to do.
09:59:59 So I won't be supporting this.
10:00:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The reason I made the motion, it
10:00:06 was pretty obvious that our community and this council,
10:00:10 majority of the council, was not in favor of local
10:00:13 preference ordinance.
10:00:14 So then I look around the state and I say, well, other
10:00:17 communities are passing local preference ordinances and
10:00:20 creating an unlevel playing field.
10:00:22 And that's not right.
10:00:23 And it's kind of counterproductive to everything that
10:00:26 we have talked about.
10:00:27 So that's where I came up with the motion in support of
10:00:32 the American builders and contractors who are going up
10:00:35 to Tallahassee to try to get some legislation to say,
10:00:37 now what?
10:00:38 Let's go back to where we were probably 10, 15 years
10:00:41 ago where there was no local preference ordinance as
10:00:44 cross the whole state, level the playing field, and let
10:00:46 anybody be able to do any business wherever they want
10:00:49 across the whole state, that sort of capitalism and the
10:00:52 American way.
10:00:53 Where is my flag?
10:00:54 So, anyway, that's the basis of the motion.
10:00:57 I don't think it's all that significant for us to chime
10:01:01 in to Tallahassee.
10:01:02 They probably won't listen to us anyway.
10:01:04 But that's the source of the resolution.
10:01:08 Thank you, Marty, for drafting it.
10:01:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, if I can, just to clarify.
10:01:13 This was going the direction -- the motion of council.
10:01:16 This also does -- has been forwarded to the Gulf coast
10:01:26 Also, I want to clarify from Mrs. Muscle -- Mrs.
10:01:30 Mulhern, usually where it becomes a statement of
10:01:32 council there's no cover letter and it's not forwarded
10:01:34 to whoever, they can forward that under what process
10:01:40 they wish.
10:01:41 I would not be forwarding this to anyone.
10:01:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other question by council?
10:01:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to adopt.
10:01:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Both sides are right.
10:01:57 Both sides are wrong.
10:02:01 This is a motion for local preference.
10:02:04 I guess because of costs and things that are involved
10:02:07 in the bidding process and so forth and so on, you're
10:02:09 looking at, I have forgotten what it was, 3 to 5% in
10:02:14 addition to the regular cost for something and somehow
10:02:23 you can't do business here because you are doing
10:02:25 business here and can't do business in those counties,
10:02:27 and it got -- that's why I didn't support those things.
10:02:33 I understand the concern of my colleagues.
10:02:38 If it's going to be just a resolution, I'm not opposed
10:02:40 to it.
10:02:41 If it's going to be a letter I won't support it because
10:02:46 I don't think Tallahassee is going to have an ear.
10:02:48 This is not a significant thing to them from us.
10:02:52 It may be significant to the industry, don't get me
10:02:54 But I don't believe that this will be a persuasive
10:02:59 issue or a big priority issue with a resolution coming
10:03:03 from council to the legislature in Tallahassee.
10:03:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's a motion.
10:03:12 Is there a second?
10:03:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: My motion.
10:03:14 Any second?
10:03:15 >>GWEN MILLER: I thought Mr. Miranda seconded it.
10:03:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I didn't say that.
10:03:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You don't want to second the level
10:03:34 of playing field motion that I made?
10:03:37 >>GWEN MILLER: I'll second it.
10:03:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
10:03:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
10:03:41 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:03:43 >>THE CLERK: I believe the motion failed with Scott,
10:03:52 Saul-Sena --
10:03:54 >>GWEN MILLER: No, in a.
10:03:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do a hand count?
10:03:57 >>GWEN MILLER: It's 4 to 3.
10:03:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No.
10:04:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
10:04:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
10:04:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
10:04:09 >>MARY MULHERN: No.
10:04:12 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: No.
10:04:16 >>THE CLERK: The motion failed 2 to 5 --
10:04:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 4-3.
10:04:32 >> Saul-Sena voting no. Miranda voting no.
10:04:40 Mulhern and Caetano voting no.
10:04:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 47.
10:04:47 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, Ms. Coyle is not here
10:04:56 yet but before you, you have your calendar.
10:04:59 If we can pull that.
10:04:59 The point being to see if there was a way to go on
10:05:04 those months where you have two night meetings, whether
10:05:07 it was able to be condensed to one night meeting.
10:05:10 Other than that, once that question is resolved, then
10:05:12 council can make the decision whether to amend its
10:05:15 The purpose being that you did not want to have a
10:05:18 morning and afternoon and a night meeting all on the
10:05:21 same day.
10:05:21 >> I thought we resolved that.
10:05:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It did and this calendar resolves
10:05:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm sorry.
10:05:29 I was the one that made the motion.
10:05:31 Way was asking was do we need -- based on the value,
10:05:35 the low volume of rezoning requests we had in the last
10:05:40 eight months, we had moved to having only one rezoning
10:05:45 evening meeting a month.
10:05:46 And since I don't see -- I don't know what the volume
10:05:50 is, but Ms. Coyle can tell us whether we need to have
10:05:55 two evening rezoning meetings a month, or one.
10:06:01 Which is dependent on your recommendation.
10:06:04 If you have a greater sense of what volume requests are
10:06:06 coming in.
10:06:07 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Good morning.
10:06:09 Happy new year.
10:06:16 Land development, Ford record.
10:06:20 I have reviewed the council calendar that was updated
10:06:23 on the 5th.
10:06:24 And we went up there the cases that are on file today
10:06:27 as well as the plan amendments that are in process, and
10:06:29 being ready to be set.
10:06:32 On the memo that I passed out, it is only anticipated
10:06:36 one evening meeting will be needed from April through
10:06:38 the rest of the year.
10:06:40 I did put a caveat in the memo that if needed, if
10:06:44 volumes do increase, we will come before you and
10:06:47 advance to request additional meetings.
10:06:50 But January, February and March, we will need the two
10:06:52 meetings that are listed on the calendar, because those
10:06:55 cases have already been scheduled.
10:07:00 So way did was I included those dates, April through
10:07:03 December, as well as the anticipated times for the plan
10:07:08 amendments in May and October.
10:07:11 So September and October were the only months where for
10:07:16 our purposes it's up to council each day, if they would
10:07:20 >> I want to thank you for this.
10:07:22 I feel like it makes it more efficient when we
10:07:26 concentrate things.
10:07:28 And so do you have a sense where you give us a choice
10:07:37 between the middle or the last date which was more --
10:07:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: When it lines up with the CRA
10:07:42 If you look at the master calendar, if we go with the
10:07:45 first and the second, I guess the second Thursday,
10:07:51 that's a CRA meeting, and then that's the one they
10:07:53 recommended to leave.
10:07:58 And then the one the night of the -- the workshop.
10:08:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Then, Mr. Chairman, if you need a
10:08:05 recommendation, my recommendation would be to take Ms.
10:08:07 Coyle's recommendations and September 16th and
10:08:11 October 14th.
10:08:11 >> I'm sorry, September 16th?
10:08:17 >> Correct, to give us a choice.
10:08:21 If you look at the list, she says September 16th or
10:08:23 30th, and October 14th or 28th.
10:08:26 So my recommendation would be that we do September
10:08:28 16th, the first of the two dates she gave us, and
10:08:33 October 14th, the first of the two dates.
10:08:37 It's just a recommendation.
10:08:39 We could go with either of those.
10:08:41 >> Those do line up as Mr. Dingfelder said with your
10:08:43 CRA morning, not a regular morning.
10:08:45 So a shorter day hopefully.
10:08:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, let me raise a question on the
10:08:55 Sometimes we have only one petition.
10:08:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's why we are going to one
10:08:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, that's February.
10:09:01 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Unfortunately those are already set
10:09:03 for public hearing.
10:09:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: They got noticed and can't touch
10:09:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Advertised.
10:09:11 That's why I brought this up.
10:09:12 Maybe next year when we develop our calendar you can do
10:09:16 it in advance.
10:09:16 >>CATHERINE COYLE: We'll have a better idea towards the
10:09:19 end of this year whether the petitions pick up, the
10:09:22 economy rebounds and two may be appropriate.
10:09:24 Otherwise we'll probably stay with one.
10:09:26 >> Ms. Saul-Sena's motion to adopt the recommendation
10:09:31 of Ms. Coyle on the January 7 memo, send it to the
10:09:36 clerk, and have her merge it with our calendar.
10:09:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: So it will be delete those dates
10:09:45 that -- in terms of September 16th and October
10:09:49 14th --
10:09:51 >> And revise the calendar.
10:09:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That would be the motion.
10:09:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So the motion, this is the revised
10:09:59 calendar with those dates, October and September,
10:10:03 Moved and seconded.
10:10:04 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:10:12 Item 48.
10:10:13 >> Welcome.
10:10:21 Happy new year.
10:10:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You're early and we are early.
10:10:26 It's all good.
10:10:27 >> Bob Hunter: We started early and found out halfway
10:10:35 down here we were called to say you are moving along in
10:10:37 the agenda.
10:10:38 So good morning.
10:10:39 I appreciate the opportunity.
10:10:40 My name is Bob Hunter, Executive Director of the
10:10:43 Hillsborough County city-county Planning Commission.
10:10:45 I'm pleased to be here.
10:10:47 I am hoping I work the right buttons.
10:10:50 I think right means forward.
10:10:52 I do want to make an unrighteous plug for the planning
10:11:01 community, the awards design program.
10:11:03 Postcards are going out today.
10:11:04 I think the art work is very well done but it's on
10:11:07 April 29th.
10:11:08 You will be receiving invitations.
10:11:10 It's on our Thursdays.
10:11:12 The typical Thursday we always try to work with your
10:11:15 staff on to avoid a conflict.
10:11:18 That was my unrighteous plug.
10:11:20 What I am here to present to you won't take very long,
10:11:23 but it is -- you have received a copy of it.
10:11:27 So mine is just a quick PowerPoint.
10:11:32 The subject is by 2008-2009 in-fill workshops.
10:11:43 It started in '08.
10:11:44 And we did this, we the Planning Commission began with
10:11:48 the idea, when the development community
10:11:51 representatives of them came to me and said, okay, we
10:11:55 are working with the urban service area, but you know
10:11:58 that we are jumping over parcels.
10:12:01 We have options on parcels that are four acres, 20
10:12:04 acres, or half acres, all different sizes, and we are
10:12:08 finding that there's some impediments of developing
10:12:12 And I say, well, develop them with what the plan shows.
10:12:17 And they say, well, we tried to, but at times we see
10:12:20 that the comprehensive plan is an impediment to
10:12:22 in-fill, and that the land development regulations are
10:12:25 an impediment.
10:12:26 And so with that I asked for the participation of
10:12:32 the -- we will call them as they did the governmental
10:12:35 regulators, from your staff, Cindy Miller and her
10:12:40 staff, attended every one of them.
10:12:42 We had four, and it was a year and a half process, but
10:12:46 we had representatives from the county's planning and
10:12:48 growth management department.
10:12:55 And representatives from Plant City and Temple Terrace.
10:12:58 But we also had we call them to our civic activists who
10:13:02 wanted to participate and give us their opinions.
10:13:04 So we had essentially three groups, that is the
10:13:09 development community, and they were very well
10:13:12 represented, I feel.
10:13:14 And we had the governmental regulators.
10:13:16 And then we had the citizens.
10:13:19 It was, I thought, very, very productive.
10:13:21 You can see from some of the photographs taken during
10:13:24 the sessions, there was a good interchange and exchange
10:13:27 of ideas.
10:13:28 It just wasn't the plan, the regulations, the problem,
10:13:33 how can we get rid of them.
10:13:35 It was how to improve upon the process for in-fill.
10:13:40 I'll go to the subject of in-fill, because you have
10:13:43 planned your utility systems for that, for those sites
10:13:47 to be developed, skipped over.
10:13:50 So we are trying to find a way to take advantage of
10:13:52 essentially what all of our citizens have already paid
10:13:55 for through the utilities, through roads, gas, water,
10:13:59 electricity, schools, et cetera.
10:14:00 So that's what we were doing.
10:14:02 Well, the first was how do you define in-fill?
10:14:08 I think it was either the Planning Commission's
10:14:10 attorney or Hillsborough County's attorney or some
10:14:13 attorney raised that issue, of course.
10:14:15 And so we had one section that dealt with a definition.
10:14:19 And that's in the report.
10:14:22 But it was a good exchange of what we really mean by
10:14:26 And it Bruce us all together.
10:14:29 Citizens are concerned when we talk about in-fill,
10:14:31 because they were looking at that as an open space, and
10:14:34 a park that they could use, or even someone suggested
10:14:38 use as a community garden.
10:14:40 But it was privately owned, and the person who owned it
10:14:43 was looking to be able to develop that property and
10:14:47 receive a return on the investment that had been
10:14:51 sitting on property for 10, 13, 14 years depending on
10:14:54 how much it was skipped over.
10:14:55 So the citizens started coming around to me, I think
10:14:58 understanding the issue, but they said, but we don't
10:15:00 want a high-rise sitting next to our single-family
10:15:03 detached homes.
10:15:04 And so there was I think a good meeting of the minds
10:15:06 that if it can be compatible, and compatibility of
10:15:10 course is in the minds of the beholder, at least if it
10:15:13 doesn't infringe upon them visually, physically, to
10:15:16 where it can be less dense on the outside to be
10:15:19 compatible, a little more dense on the interior, I
10:15:24 think everybody said, yeah, that could work.
10:15:26 So we looked at not just land use and the regulations.
10:15:31 We looked at land use, transportation, discussed
10:15:34 parking as a big issue, and as an impediment to the
10:15:39 development on small parcels where they are trying to
10:15:41 get more units on there.
10:15:43 And so we looked at the possibilities of even
10:15:44 eliminating, if we are successful with our multimodal
10:15:48 transportation efforts in a few years to reducing
10:15:51 parking requirements.
10:15:52 Parking requirements would be changed.
10:15:54 It wouldn't be that we are going to get rid of them.
10:15:57 But we would be looking at moving them around so that
10:15:59 it could be community parking situations.
10:16:04 But we also looked at water, stormwater, education,
10:16:11 schools, level of service.
10:16:12 We also got seriously into the subject of
10:16:15 It's a hot topic and it's one that's not going to go
10:16:19 away when it warms up or cools down.
10:16:21 It will be here.
10:16:22 And it will be here, I think, for us, you as
10:16:26 governmental officials, we as urban planners for the
10:16:30 next 10 to 15 and 20 years.
10:16:32 That's the wave of what's going on around the globe,
10:16:35 not just here in the state and in the country.
10:16:37 But we also looked at the issues of landscaping and
10:16:39 urban agricultural.
10:16:40 Again, we talked about trying to develop on 40 acres or
10:16:46 20 acres, urban agriculture means a community garden,
10:16:49 So that didn't skip our discussion.
10:16:53 I think it's an outstanding report.
10:16:55 It's a brief report.
10:16:56 It's got over 200 items listed in it as suggestions to
10:17:01 all four governments as to how we, the governmental
10:17:04 regulators, working with the development community,
10:17:06 might proceed in improving the comp plan and the land
10:17:11 development regulations to encourage in-fill.
10:17:14 We are just asking that you receive and file the
10:17:18 We are not asking that you take direction -- take an
10:17:21 action on this or provide direction to your staff.
10:17:24 We know that the staff, not only the Planning
10:17:26 Commission, but are very overloaded right now with
10:17:34 budget reductions, adding specific things in that time
10:17:39 frame I think would be an impediment.
10:17:42 My understanding that all four governments including
10:17:43 the Planning Commission staff are looking at where we
10:17:46 can make improvements, and assigning them as work tasks
10:17:50 as we have the staff available and time available to do
10:17:54 Mr. Chairman, that summarizes my presentation.
10:17:57 I didn't want to take more than five minutes.
10:17:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Hunter, for your
10:18:07 hard work and for the presentation today.
10:18:10 When you were putting this together and looking at the
10:18:14 in-fill issue, in addition to open spaces left behind
10:18:20 there, I don't know, as lie around, did you all look at
10:18:24 redevelopment as well?
10:18:25 Because that's more typically what we see at council in
10:18:29 regard to plan changes and rezonings.
10:18:33 >> Bob Hunter: Yes, sir.
10:18:38 And it was brought to the attention, really, of the
10:18:40 regulators on this.
10:18:42 It's not just the -- I'll call it underutilized, but
10:18:47 it's the property's in-fill on something that's already
10:18:53 been developed.
10:18:54 That plus the underutilized parcels whether they had
10:18:58 been utilized or not was also brought up in the
10:19:01 discussion, besides just the development of vacant
10:19:03 Yes, we looked at it.
10:19:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Same type of conclusions or
10:19:09 Or was there --
10:19:11 >>> It's a little different, where it's already been
10:19:13 And typically some older shopping centers that we
10:19:17 all -- comes to our mind, wouldn't it be nice to have
10:19:21 it redeveloped?
10:19:22 It's a different type of incentives from this
10:19:25 standpoint of there's something physical there that has
10:19:29 to be taken down before it can be built back up.
10:19:31 It's a different set of package or financial
10:19:34 We did look at that, though, and those are in the
10:19:37 report, too.
10:19:38 When I say "in the report," 200 generalized suggestions
10:19:43 up to our local governments how to proceed with the
10:19:46 specificity to accomplish what you are talking about,
10:19:48 especially in the City of Tampa.
10:19:51 I know the point you are making.
10:19:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I was going to ask where you see
10:19:58 this report in the recommendation.
10:20:00 Thank you, Bob.
10:20:02 Going from here in regard to the city and
10:20:04 implementation, that sort of thing.
10:20:06 I know some of the issues you are working on in
10:20:09 Seminole Heights with that program really address these
10:20:13 type of in-fill redevelopment issues as well.
10:20:15 >>CINDY MILLER: Director of growth management
10:20:18 development services.
10:20:19 And I appreciate Mr. Hunter's comments of not wanting
10:20:22 to put any additional work on our staff.
10:20:24 However, I have already put some work on our staff.
10:20:27 For the 200 recommendations we have started to
10:20:30 circulate that among both my department, transportation
10:20:34 and other departments.
10:20:36 What I would like to bring back to you, that I would
10:20:39 ask that you not have me come back any earlier than say
10:20:42 your second meeting in February, and we will provide
10:20:46 knew advance of that, is a matrix of all 200 items.
10:20:50 The good news is a lot of these items are already in
10:20:54 chapter 27 and other chapters, so we are able to
10:20:56 identify these items already exist, or they have been
10:20:59 accounted for partially or fully, and we will have that
10:21:03 outlined for you.
10:21:05 But we'll get to the you in advance.
10:21:07 And that will also give you some food for thought as to
10:21:10 potential other code changes, whether they are in the
10:21:13 July cycle for chapter 27, or other chapters, as well
10:21:17 as, very frankly, all of these items were discussed.
10:21:22 That doesn't mean that we took a vote or prioritized or
10:21:26 everyone necessarily agreed on everything.
10:21:28 I think that's a fair assessment.
10:21:30 So there's going to be some things that are really open
10:21:32 for discussion that is certainly within council's
10:21:34 prerogative as to whether you direct staff to change
10:21:36 anything within the code.
10:21:37 So my recommendation is perhaps that the second meeting
10:21:41 in February we at least be able to present that
10:21:44 information to you, but give to the you about a week
10:21:46 before that, and it will give you something to work
10:21:49 And Thom Snelling and I will be back to do that,
10:21:52 because we also owe you a report from Mr. Snelling as
10:21:56 the green officer, and we could also present that
10:21:58 report at the same time.
10:21:59 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
10:22:07 Receiving this report is very timely considering the
10:22:11 situation we are in with the housing bust, and the fact
10:22:15 that we had such a surplus and we have had a lot of
10:22:20 development that's really been sprawl.
10:22:24 And it's too bad that we couldn't have implemented this
10:22:28 proactively several years ago, and we would be in such
10:22:32 better shape.
10:22:33 But I also think it's very hopeful for builders and
10:22:35 developers and the construction industry to see that we
10:22:40 do have -- and in some ways like you said we have the
10:22:48 infrastructure in place already, it will hopefully be
10:22:50 more economical to be building within the urban service
10:22:53 area, and doing in-fill development.
10:22:57 So I think this is great.
10:22:59 I am going to read the report.
10:23:00 Thank you for mentioning urban agriculture.
10:23:02 And it's interesting because from all the reading and
10:23:07 research I have been doing, I'm finding that really the
10:23:10 smaller the area, the better.
10:23:12 So really you can use economic remainders -- uneconomic
10:23:18 remainders for little gardens so you don't have to have
10:23:21 major acreage to do that.
10:23:23 You can still develop these parcels.
10:23:24 So I think this is great.
10:23:26 Thanks a lot.
10:23:26 >> The idea came from the development community itself,
10:23:33 and also I'm pleased to say local government responded.
10:23:36 We are trying to work with them.
10:23:38 Thank you.
10:23:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. Hunter.
10:23:42 This is great.
10:23:43 And I want to ask both you and Mrs. Miller as we move
10:23:46 ahead to recognize that oftentimes our goal is to
10:23:52 redevelop in these opportune places but make certain
10:23:57 that we protect the historic infrastructure of the
10:24:00 community that's in between, and it's a balancing act.
10:24:02 I know it's really challenging.
10:24:04 But it's something we really must figure out a way to
10:24:07 And, secondly, I think we would all agree that one of
10:24:11 the saddest things we see downtown are surface parking
10:24:15 lots, and in other neighborhoods.
10:24:16 And as we in the next few years develop our
10:24:21 transportation system so that people aren't so reliant
10:24:24 on their individual cars, and therefore we don't have
10:24:28 to put as much land into surface parking lots, that can
10:24:30 be a way of rethinking our development patterns.
10:24:35 But I hope that as we look toward implementing these
10:24:41 recommendations we find a way to minimize the negative
10:24:43 impact of surface parking lots because they are such a
10:24:47 blight on our neighborhoods in our center city.
10:24:51 Council members, I was going to do this under new
10:24:54 It's kind of germane.
10:24:55 There was an article --
10:24:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, we are still on this issue.
10:25:00 Thank you.
10:25:00 Motion to receive and file?
10:25:02 >> So moved.
10:25:03 >> Second.
10:25:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
10:25:07 Thank you all very much.
10:25:08 We have one last item, which is a workshop, I guess 11
10:25:13 I guess we cannot do it.
10:25:17 Is that right, Mr. Shelby?
10:25:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, legally you can.
10:25:21 But in the sense we have people here who wished to
10:25:23 discuss it in the past, I don't know whether they are
10:25:25 present now, but it would probably be prudent to wait.
10:25:28 Again there is no legal --
10:25:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, we can do that.
10:25:31 Let's take up new business.
10:25:38 Mr. Caetano.
10:25:39 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I want to make a motion that we
10:25:43 send this letter to Mr. Brad Baird in reverend to the
10:25:47 water department.
10:25:48 We have these water cops out there, and get some
10:25:54 specific answers on some of these questions.
10:26:00 I think there's an extra copy there.
10:26:07 I see these people running a around on a rainy night,
10:26:12 and they are not paying attention.
10:26:13 I have seen water meters running at night, and from my
10:26:18 investigation, I haven't seen any citations being
10:26:22 And these people are making about 17 or 18 dollars an
10:26:27 hour, plus the cost of operating the vehicle, and I
10:26:31 don't know -- it may not be necessary to have --
10:26:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Ask for a report back on staff reports
10:26:43 which means --
10:26:47 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Well, a couple weeks.
10:26:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Last meeting in January?
10:26:50 The 21st?
10:26:52 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That's a written report,
10:26:53 Mr. Chairman.
10:26:54 >>GWEN MILLER: A written report.
10:26:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do you want a written report or
10:26:59 them come talk to us?
10:27:02 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would rather have it in
10:27:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do you want both?
10:27:06 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Make the presentation and give us
10:27:08 a report because I want --
10:27:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You want both.
10:27:12 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Yes.
10:27:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You want that the 2nd 1st?
10:27:16 >> Right.
10:27:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
10:27:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
10:27:21 All in favor?
10:27:24 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I have something else to bring up
10:27:25 under new business, Mr. Chairman.
10:27:26 There was a meeting last night at the Wharton high
10:27:31 school in reference to Bruce B. Downs Boulevard.
10:27:33 And there are a lot of merchants in the point which is
10:27:37 a shopping center.
10:27:38 There's probably about 18 businesses in there.
10:27:40 And they are going to be affected real bad with the
10:27:43 closing of a road that's going into that shopping
10:27:48 When you are heading north you can cross the southbound
10:27:51 lane in order to get in there.
10:27:52 And that's only going to cause more confusion in the
10:27:55 other exit when you are leaving that shopping center,
10:27:59 because right now it's a mess.
10:28:01 Also, USAA is adding 1,000 employees to their building.
10:28:07 And those people either come in that way or leave that
10:28:12 way when they go home.
10:28:14 You have got freedom high school and liberty.
10:28:19 The traffic, according to Mike Scanlan, that area is
10:28:23 one of the second worst in the city.
10:28:27 So it needs to be taken care of.
10:28:30 Also on Bruce B. Downs Boulevard in between the mobile
10:28:34 station and McDonald's, I have been working with Mr.
10:28:39 Daignault to do something to alleviate the traffic
10:28:43 So they intend to put a red light, the county has
10:28:48 approved it, and the city is onboard.
10:28:51 I guess they have to go to the state, so if people want
10:28:53 to go north on Bruce B. Downs they have to go out the
10:28:57 northern entrance -- the southern entrance in order to
10:29:00 get out.
10:29:00 So this is going to alleviate and make things a lot
10:29:03 easier for people shopping in that shopping center.
10:29:09 That's it, Mr. Chairman.
10:29:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:29:15 I wanted to share with council members page 8 of the
10:29:19 last issue of "creative loafing," an article on green
10:29:27 community and ten recommendations how to make Tampa
10:29:29 more sustainable, and it's completely germane to the
10:29:32 conversation we just had with Mr. Hunter, the Planning
10:29:36 Number one is change the land use pattern to thoughtful
10:29:39 plan sustainable in-fill, which is exactly what we were
10:29:42 just discussing.
10:29:43 And it's fun to read something that's beautifully
10:29:46 written with a big picture view of how we can make
10:29:52 Tampa as well as our region more healthy and
10:29:55 In this article there's also identified of course
10:29:59 improving our transportation system, using reclaimed
10:30:01 water, planting trees, protecting our historic
10:30:06 resources, and really focusing on sustainability, good
10:30:10 planning and architecture.
10:30:12 So I wanted to share this with all of you as we go
10:30:15 about our deliberations in land use and transportation
10:30:18 during this next year.
10:30:19 It's kind of a great concise blueprint of the areas
10:30:22 that we might be addressing.
10:30:25 And it's pretty inspirational.
10:30:27 I wanted to share that with all of you.
10:30:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:30:31 Before we left for the holiday, I made a motion to give
10:30:34 a commendation to Copeland park football team
10:30:37 I didn't give a date.
10:30:38 I want to set it for Thursday, January 28th.
10:30:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
10:30:43 All in favor say Aye.
10:30:46 >>GWEN MILLER: That's it.
10:30:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And my earlier motion the
10:30:54 commendations to plant football so to make sure they
10:31:01 can be here.
10:31:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: They got a date on that already if
10:31:04 you want it.
10:31:08 They are available February 4th.
10:31:10 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:31:13 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
10:31:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The last item is a letter from the
10:31:21 Planning Commission, to appear in January, a workshop
10:31:28 on transit-oriented development.
10:31:32 And they want 15 minutes.
10:31:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
10:31:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The 28th which is a workshop date.
10:31:39 And we need to look at that schedule because I'm not
10:31:41 sure what we have already in January.
10:31:43 >>THE CLERK: Mr. Chairman, you have already four
10:31:57 workshops scheduled on that day.
10:32:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Chairman, we have this strange
10:32:05 phenomenon of having a number of workshops scheduled
10:32:08 and then two or three drop out and we end up having
10:32:11 extra time.
10:32:11 And I don't know how to address this other than to set
10:32:17 some kind of date if the administration is going to
10:32:19 participate that they let us know like a week in
10:32:21 advance if they are going to drop out so we can put
10:32:24 something in its stead, sort of like a waiting list or
10:32:30 fill-in, you know.
10:32:31 I would like to create that process, because we have
10:32:33 had that happen so frequently in the last year.
10:32:36 So I would like to move that this be on the -- first on
10:32:39 the waiting list, or one of these other issues that's
10:32:43 on the workshop.
10:32:43 >> Well, the only problem, though, is that they are
10:32:46 asking for a particular time.
10:32:48 And they may not drop out.
10:32:50 So what do we do then?
10:32:52 That's the issue.
10:32:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Well, we give them a week's
10:32:57 Maybe what we do is give them a solid date in March or
10:33:00 whatever, and a week's warning if this is going to move
10:33:03 I'm just suggesting to make our time well used,
10:33:07 Mr. Chairman.
10:33:08 >>MARTIN SHELBY: There is a question.
10:33:10 I don't know whether this is necessary, the ballot
10:33:12 language that might be an action, may make it time
10:33:17 I don't know if that is in fact.
10:33:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: She's nodding yes.
10:33:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What's the subject matter that we
10:33:30 are discussing?
10:33:31 >> It says time sensitive and they want to meet on the
10:33:34 4th, our regular board meeting.
10:33:36 I just think 15 minutes is a lot of time for our
10:33:39 regular board meeting, is my concern.
10:33:42 I just want to caution us being careful that we take
10:33:44 things at workshop, we put in the our regular schedule,
10:33:47 and on a day like today we probably could have done it.
10:33:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Could they come back here in the
10:33:56 next 20 minutes?
10:34:02 >> I don't know.
10:34:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I mean, we are here now.
10:34:05 If it's just our staff.
10:34:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is it Cathy?
10:34:09 >> This is on the Planning Commission.
10:34:11 It's from Bob Hunter.
10:34:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I know our staff is going to have
10:34:16 input on there, because they have been working with the
10:34:18 Planning Commission.
10:34:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: On the 21st perhaps?
10:34:28 >> Well, that's regular meeting.
10:34:30 They are requesting -- my concern is that if you have a
10:34:34 lot of items on your regular meeting, then it gets
10:34:39 pushed back.
10:34:40 So I don't know what it will look like.
10:34:42 Do we have a heavy agenda on the 21st?
10:34:48 >> Yes, we do.
10:34:49 Staff reports.
10:34:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So what about the 4th of February?
10:34:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: How about at 1:30 after the appeal
10:35:01 >>THE CLERK: Right now we have three staff reports on
10:35:04 February 4th.
10:35:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What I was suggesting, I will tell you
10:35:09 in the future I am not going to support taking items
10:35:12 that should be workshop and put on our regular agenda
10:35:14 unless we have a light day.
10:35:17 If we have a light day like this I can see that.
10:35:21 So February 4th, that means that we need to limit
10:35:23 on the 21st.
10:35:26 We have to be very careful not to stack the agenda.
10:35:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Chairman, why don't we schedule
10:35:32 it for 1:30 prior to the appeal hearing?
10:35:37 That way if it's time certain.
10:35:42 If we do this first, oftentimes you get canceled or
10:35:47 continued or whatever.
10:35:48 >> Is there a problem with that?
10:35:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: February 4th at 1:30 prayer to
10:35:55 the appeal hearing.
10:35:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is that okay with everybody?
10:36:02 Checking your calendar?
10:36:05 So the motion is that we take this item up on February
10:36:08 4th at 1:30.
10:36:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
10:36:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This would be transit oriented
10:36:15 Allocate 15 minutes is what they are requesting.
10:36:19 It's been moved an seconded.
10:36:21 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:36:26 Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:36:29 Councilman Dingfelder?
10:36:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Speaking of Boy Scouts of America,
10:36:37 I make a motion to honor two upcoming boy scouts from
10:36:40 troop 53 on obtaining rank of eagle scout, and that
10:36:44 will be William Michael Fish, and Alan William LeRoy,
10:36:54 Jr., and with the council's indulgence I'll present
10:36:56 those commendations at the ceremony.
10:36:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:37:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:37:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Addition to Plant High Schools
10:37:11 another state championship, Mr. Chairman graciously
10:37:14 recognized, Robinson high school had a great year and
10:37:18 Robinson high school coach Mike DePue was selected as
10:37:24 Hillsborough county coach of the year so as long as we
10:37:26 are in the football mode on the 4th I would like to
10:37:31 invite them down on the coach of the year selection.
10:37:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
10:37:37 (Motion carried).
10:37:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Finally, Hartline was named and
10:37:45 honored as being the state's best transit agency from
10:37:50 the state transit association, and now they are in the
10:37:53 running in the same award for the national.
10:37:57 David says he thinks we have a chance of getting in the
10:37:59 top five in the national.
10:38:03 And I would like council to recognize them January
10:38:13 Did I say Hartline?
10:38:15 >> Heart.
10:38:16 Recognize the 24th?
10:38:18 >> We have the 21st and 28th.
10:38:31 I guess it's the third meeting of the month?
10:38:33 >> Well --
10:38:41 >> The 21st.
10:38:44 Next week --
10:38:46 >> The 21st.
10:38:47 >> We just have to have some help.
10:38:52 >> Moved and seconded.
10:38:57 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:39:02 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:39:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It's my pleasure this morning to
10:39:05 introduce a USF Sr., Joe Elrod, who will be helping me
10:39:11 as an intern through the University of South Florida
10:39:13 political science internship program.
10:39:15 Welcome to City Council.
10:39:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Welcome.
10:39:23 Thank you.
10:39:24 Other new business?
10:39:27 Then we'll stand in recess till 11:00.
10:39:30 Thank you.
10:39:30 (City Council recess)
10:39:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:04:23 We have a workshop for item 49.
11:04:25 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
11:04:32 Back to the packet that we had a month ago, if you turn
11:04:34 to page 7, there were only a few remaining items.
11:04:38 Page 7 related to a motion that council made in March
11:04:43 regarding the changing the semiannual reporting period
11:04:50 for "R" classifications for alcohol to an annual
11:04:53 reporting period, so that change was made.
11:04:55 We are keeping that report in January.
11:04:59 And also looking at developing hardship criteria to
11:05:04 allow the administrative fee, so you waived under
11:05:10 certain circumstances.
11:05:11 We went back and looked at the repeat occurrences and
11:05:15 who was filing late and how.
11:05:17 And it appears that the predominant number of people
11:05:21 that report later, it's their first time.
11:05:24 They didn't necessarily know or remember.
11:05:26 They were just starting.
11:05:28 That would be the provision we put in, was that the fee
11:05:31 would be reduced to $100, if it's your first time being
11:05:36 late, and every time after that then would be 500 for
11:05:41 the history of that particular business at that
11:05:44 If the business switched to a new business at that
11:05:46 location, then this rule would apply again.
11:05:49 If it's a new business would get the allowance the
11:05:52 first time.
11:05:54 Those are the two changes that were brought forward.
11:05:59 Did you want a motion each one separately, or did you
11:06:02 want to do it all at the end?
11:06:06 >> Each one.
11:06:10 Turn your mike on.
11:06:11 >>MARY MULHERN: I'll move to make that change.
11:06:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
11:06:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
11:06:18 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:06:24 And two things that Cathy recommended.
11:06:27 Do you want to state that again?
11:06:29 >>CATHERINE COYLE: It was the change from the
11:06:31 semiannual reporting for the "R" classification to
11:06:33 annual, and then allowing -- any business that comes
11:06:39 into a location as an "R" classification, if it's their
11:06:42 first offense or their first violation of this rule,
11:06:44 that the $500 administrative late fee would be reduced
11:06:49 to $100.
11:06:50 Any occurrence afterwards would be 500.
11:06:52 And then that would be renewed for any new business
11:06:54 that came into the establishment.
11:06:57 Their first offense they would get a reduced fee.
11:07:00 Any offense after would be the $500 fee.
11:07:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Which we already had the public
11:07:09 meeting to discuss this at the last workshop on this?
11:07:13 >>CATHERINE COYLE: No, this is the continued workshop.
11:07:15 We held a public information workshop --
11:07:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I know, but we haven't allowed the
11:07:24 Before we take an action we always allow the public to
11:07:26 So I thought they had already spoken F.not then we need
11:07:30 to give them an opportunity to speak.
11:07:31 Why don't we finish the workshop, and then they'll have
11:07:34 an opportunity to speak.
11:07:35 >>CATHERINE COYLE: On page 9 is the consistent matrix.
11:07:40 This is a clean-up based on the update of the
11:07:44 comprehensive plan earlier, last year.
11:07:48 You will notice that 2015 was stricken, and this
11:07:52 consistency matrix simply refers to the comprehensive
11:07:55 The consistency matrix, just for your knowledge on
11:08:00 this, tells you what land use classifications are
11:08:02 consistent with which zoning classifications.
11:08:05 So this is very important.
11:08:06 It's the very beginning of the zoning code.
11:08:08 The references, one, two, three -- I'm sorry, one, two
11:08:13 and three on page 10 were corrected as well, because it
11:08:16 referred to certain policies in the comprehensive plan,
11:08:19 which no longer exists and have been renumbered.
11:08:22 And also HC 24, HC 35, you will notice that change.
11:08:28 Kind of in the middle of the table on page 10.
11:08:31 So those were actually -- these are required to be
11:08:33 changed based on the comprehensive plan update.
11:08:37 The next item on page 11 is 27-133, fence and wall
11:08:45 regulations related to that language security need.
11:08:50 Julia Cole from the legal department took the lead on
11:08:53 drafting the revised language.
11:08:57 And I believe she has copies of it for you, or it has
11:08:59 been distributed currently.
11:09:03 I'll let Julia go ahead and review the language with
11:09:06 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
11:09:09 When this came up as part of the last discussion we had
11:09:12 on our workshop, there were some issues and concerns
11:09:15 raised about the nature of what we had in the code
11:09:20 I think the clarifying language, upon reviewing it, it
11:09:26 became clear that it really wasn't the process that we
11:09:29 had in place for electric fence really didn't comport
11:09:33 to our code as it related to process.
11:09:35 It was simply a permit that was granted by the Variance
11:09:38 Review Board for demonstration of a security need, and
11:09:43 it became very hard to implement at the variance review
11:09:45 board because their role is to grant variance was
11:09:48 hardship criteria. When the issue came up some folks
11:09:51 submitted some language to me to try and kind of
11:09:54 increase the amount of detail in the code, but even
11:09:57 taking it a step further, what I realized is, we really
11:10:01 needed to have the electric fence process be a
11:10:05 And so because it's going to the Variance Review Board,
11:10:08 and that's their standard of review.
11:10:09 So what is in front of you -- and I took a little bit
11:10:14 of time to do this and I just did get it out to some
11:10:17 folks in the last couple of days because I really did
11:10:19 need to spend some time determining how to draft this
11:10:22 as a variance.
11:10:23 But what is within here is in essence how the idea of
11:10:27 allowing an electric fence would be reviewed as a
11:10:33 It says that in order to show that there is a hardship
11:10:37 as you would for any variance, if there's some
11:10:40 requirement of a significant need, we actually deal
11:10:45 what that means, so it's intended to give more criteria
11:10:49 for the Variance Review Board to review in this
11:10:52 As it stands today, basically the Variance Review Board
11:10:59 is to permit an electric fence on a showing of security
11:11:03 need, and in front of the Variance Review Board, there
11:11:06 is a lot of questions as to what does that mean.
11:11:08 So that's the intent of this.
11:11:10 Again, I will apologize.
11:11:11 Did it take me some time over the holiday to get this
11:11:14 And did it take me some time to get done.
11:11:16 I wanted to make sure I was on firm legal ground and
11:11:19 having basically what I would call an enhanced
11:11:22 But I'm comfortable that you can have an enhanced
11:11:25 variance but legally the Variance Review Board and the
11:11:27 other boards have a right to grants a variance allowing
11:11:32 A an electric fence with this showing of significant
11:11:34 security needs, and that's what we would be moving
11:11:38 forward with as part of this workshop.
11:11:40 I also -- if there's any additional changes we needed
11:11:45 needs to be made.
11:11:46 We could do that during the process, or if City Council
11:11:51 wanted to discuss this further we could go ahead and
11:11:53 move this to the next workshop.
11:11:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Julia, I really appreciate the work
11:11:58 that you have done on this.
11:11:59 I think that clarifying it is important.
11:12:02 Yesterday at a preservation roundtable meeting a number
11:12:06 of people expressed real concern about this, and I
11:12:09 hadn't seen the language yet, they hadn't seen the
11:12:11 language, and I don't think T.H.A.N. has seen language.
11:12:14 Do you have any time scheduled to share this
11:12:16 information with them so that changes could be made?
11:12:20 >>JULIA COLE: You know, this kind of developed in a
11:12:22 weird way because it start with just a very simple
11:12:25 clean-up and morphed into making this really fit what
11:12:29 we were trying to accomplish in terms of process.
11:12:32 So traditionally this is something that would have gone
11:12:34 for a public information meeting process, and really
11:12:38 did not do that.
11:12:39 I am happy -- and I'm not sure when this would be
11:12:43 scheduled to go to the Planning Commission, to maybe
11:12:45 schedule a public information meeting.
11:12:49 Maybe something prior to that happening.
11:12:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That would be great.
11:12:53 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
11:13:01 Based on whatever motion it is today, we would be
11:13:03 asking you to transmit as did you in December,
11:13:05 whichever amendments you have today that you want to
11:13:07 move, transmit to the Planning Commission for the next
11:13:11 available meeting, which would be in February.
11:13:12 That's when we are shooting for.
11:13:15 For their recommendation and then coming back to you
11:13:17 for adoption.
11:13:18 In February or early March.
11:13:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So we could move to include this in
11:13:21 the group but have a meeting prior to February, and if
11:13:24 there was some additional feedback would we have the
11:13:27 ability to either incorporate that or have the people
11:13:32 from the community now that they understand what's
11:13:36 being proposed present it at the Planning Commission?
11:13:38 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Yes.
11:13:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My understanding is this is better
11:13:42 than what we have now, which is a little mush.
11:13:44 This would be crisper but there might be a way for you
11:13:47 to improve it more.
11:13:48 So that would be excellent if you could have like a
11:13:52 community information meeting.
11:13:56 >> I think you are waiting for comments till the end,
11:14:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
11:14:00 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The next one at the bottom of page
11:14:10 11 is the temporary vendor property owner requirements.
11:14:13 Nothing in this is changing as far as the general
11:14:17 criteria, the number of permits are the same, the
11:14:20 dimensional standards are the same, everything is the
11:14:22 But this is just to clean up the numbering system,
11:14:25 number 6 and on, and a clean-up of the application
11:14:28 process, how the forms are filled out.
11:14:30 The vendor will sign the statement that he or she is
11:14:35 going to meet all the requirements of this section and
11:14:37 the property owner also can be held responsible, which
11:14:40 they could initially.
11:14:42 It's just a way that it's stated in the application.
11:14:44 So it's a much clearer statement in the code.
11:14:47 That was really the change.
11:14:48 Nothing else about the process is changing, though.
11:14:51 Timing is the same and a everything else.
11:14:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Just for clarity and my thought, I
11:14:59 want to give my thoughts.
11:15:02 What are the hours for vending?
11:15:04 I remember we had certain hours that we changed from
11:15:06 dawn to dusk or something like that.
11:15:09 And not supposed to have a table and chairs.
11:15:12 And I have seen table and chairs, and there's one
11:15:15 particular vendor that I haven't been by lately but I
11:15:19 know it's been there, then it leaves, a week later it's
11:15:23 It's very hard to follow.
11:15:24 It really is.
11:15:24 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The annual vendor, the one that gets
11:15:28 the annual permit, they are from dawn to dusk.
11:15:30 And they are not to occupy more than two parking
11:15:33 spaces, or 600 square feet, I think the requirement is.
11:15:37 The table and chair requirement didn't actually make it
11:15:39 through, as I recall.
11:15:40 It was discussion, but I don't recall that it made it
11:15:43 through on the motions when that was finally adopted.
11:15:46 The temporary vendor, which is the one that's before
11:15:48 you, is the 45-day continuous permit.
11:15:51 And if they want to come back they can request a new
11:15:55 Those run from 7 in the morning till 9 at night and
11:16:01 this usually covers Christmas trees, flowers,
11:16:04 seasonal-type items.
11:16:05 >> But it covers food, also, right?
11:16:08 >> People can request it for food if they want just a
11:16:11 trial location.
11:16:12 We couldn't limit --
11:16:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I understand what you're saying.
11:16:17 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The next item on the bottom of page
11:16:20 13 is the private community gardens.
11:16:26 This is spurred by people in Seminole Heights actually.
11:16:29 This language was pulled together from quite a few
11:16:32 different sources.
11:16:33 I believe St. Petersburg was one of the main focal
11:16:36 points because it was local, and they actually had code
11:16:39 for it.
11:16:42 This does cover residential properties and office and
11:16:44 commercial properties.
11:16:46 It does show that the responsibilities lie with the
11:16:52 property owner, and then any lessee of the property who
11:16:55 runs the garden.
11:16:57 The garden is a little bit broader than what you would
11:17:00 think of as just your own garden.
11:17:02 This does not preclude any individual property owner
11:17:05 from having a garden in their lot.
11:17:08 What this provision is for is calling for a special use
11:17:10 permit, an administrative special use permit that meets
11:17:15 these conditions, so that a group of individuals, or an
11:17:17 organization can come in onto a private property that
11:17:20 may not own it and operate more of a smaller-scale
11:17:25 garden operation.
11:17:26 There's permitted structures on the properties.
11:17:29 Green houses, storage sheds, pavilions, planting
11:17:33 preparation houses, and those standards for those.
11:17:38 Fund-raising events on the property are limited to four
11:17:40 events per year.
11:17:46 Fence for residential properties.
11:17:48 Harvest crops, with commercial districts allowed, and
11:17:52 not within residential unless it's for a fund-raising
11:17:55 We trade to make sure that we separated the commercial
11:17:57 activities from the residential properties as much as
11:17:59 possible, but then also allow them some of these
11:18:02 special situations.
11:18:05 This also does not stop anything that's grown on the
11:18:08 residential property in a community garden to be
11:18:10 harvested and then sold off-site at an agricultural
11:18:16 stand or piece of property that's zoned commercial.
11:18:17 They can harvest and move to another location.
11:18:20 Signage is also limited in residential districts to six
11:18:23 square feet, shall not exceed four feet in height.
11:18:29 Benches, picnic tables, garden art, things that are
11:18:32 generally allowed.
11:18:33 Walkways shall be unpaved and covered with mulch,
11:18:36 except as necessary to meet the needs of individuals
11:18:39 with disability, to try to limit impervious materials
11:18:42 as much as possible.
11:18:43 Off-street parking number 8 on page 15 is not required
11:18:46 for gardens within residential YCCD or CDB zoning
11:18:53 districts where parking is generally not required in
11:18:55 those last three anyway.
11:18:59 Within gardens within office and commercial zoning
11:19:02 districts they would be providing a space at the rate
11:19:04 of one space per ten individual plots not to exceed 15
11:19:08 We don't want these lots to become parking lots.
11:19:11 The primary premise of these lots should be the
11:19:13 community garden itself.
11:19:16 For activities on page 15, litter and dumping, alcohol
11:19:20 consumption, other unlawful activities.
11:19:27 Amplified sound.
11:19:28 Pets are not allowed in the garden.
11:19:31 Ball playing or other forms of recreation, storage or
11:19:34 use of fireworks.
11:19:36 And finally the definition community garden, private
11:19:40 green house.
11:19:42 This is the first run of the regulation to see how it
11:19:46 goes essentially.
11:19:46 Obviously with any new type of use or regulation we
11:19:49 anticipate interest within the next six months to a
11:19:52 year a process for some type of change to accommodate
11:19:56 any shift in how it actually operates.
11:19:58 But this is the first blush generated along with the
11:20:01 >>MARY MULHERN: I haven't looked at this, studied
11:20:09 this, but I will.
11:20:10 One thing that kind of jumped out at me was under the
11:20:13 noise limitations, I think that first sentence, I wish
11:20:19 you could just get rid of it, because a gardening
11:20:24 activity would be like watering, you know.
11:20:27 People are going to be watering at night.
11:20:28 So I think maybe you could change it so that it talks
11:20:32 about noise limitations not be so broad.
11:20:38 Because I think there are things that might happen
11:20:40 before or after dark in the garden.
11:20:44 That would be hand tools, watering, stuff like that.
11:20:46 >>> I think in some of the use criteria, but the
11:20:51 residential versus the commercial lands and zoning
11:20:54 classifications got smooshed a little bit.
11:20:57 I would recommendation under noise limitations that
11:20:59 maybe you limit -- and I can see why it was added in
11:21:02 there -- is that that activity is not occurring before
11:21:04 sunrise and after sunset on residential land.
11:21:07 One issue that we heard from many of the residential
11:21:11 people round the city in general was that there was
11:21:18 some concern potentially that they would have this
11:21:20 going on at 3:00 in the morning next door, and there is
11:21:25 always that rub between residential and even this type
11:21:28 of activity.
11:21:29 It's just an unknown, I think in, Tampa right now.
11:21:31 >> I don't think it's necessary.
11:21:35 I think if we are going to do that, we should just
11:21:38 outlaw lease growers, too.
11:21:42 And I'm worried that some of this might not be
11:21:44 necessary if we already have things on the books for
11:21:50 those zoning classifications.
11:21:54 I don't know.
11:21:55 I mean, I would just like to look it over and share it
11:21:58 with some community gardeners and see what they think.
11:22:04 And I'm wondering if you had a chance to look over
11:22:06 the -- I gave you some recommendations that were sort
11:22:12 of in support of community gardens, and what kind of
11:22:17 language to use in this code.
11:22:21 >>> We got that on the 17th.
11:22:25 I personally haven't had a chance.
11:22:27 I had one of the staff members glance through it.
11:22:29 And it didn't appear that anything we had written was
11:22:32 in direct conflict.
11:22:33 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, that's good.
11:22:37 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The next item on page 17 relates to
11:22:42 the ARC and BLC divisions relating to scale of
11:22:49 Ms. Kert will be addressing that with you.
11:22:50 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
11:22:52 This amendment as Cathy said deals with the role of the
11:22:57 DRC in relation to the area, height, bulk and placement
11:23:00 regulations found in the rest of chapter 27.
11:23:06 As a result of a lawsuit, we had made a previous change
11:23:08 to the code which was a general statement that said
11:23:10 that if the ARC-designed standards requires development
11:23:14 that was more restrictive than the maximums allowed in
11:23:16 the rest of the code in height, placement, then the ARC
11:23:22 standards would prevail.
11:23:24 What this is is a follow-up.
11:23:27 And we went to the court case, and every place that the
11:23:30 court said it appears that our code favored the zoning
11:23:33 regulations over the ARC regulations, we went in to the
11:23:37 specific section and altered those so there can be no
11:23:41 more concern about if the ARC regulations are more
11:23:46 restrictive and don't apply.
11:23:48 That's the main thing that it does.
11:23:50 There are two other smaller changes.
11:23:52 It adds vacating to the list of applications that the
11:23:56 ARC reviews prior to going to City Council.
11:23:58 They already review them.
11:23:59 It just wasn't required by the code.
11:24:01 And we also required notice that the applicant provide
11:24:05 a fine, posted notice, for those recommendation
11:24:10 We have been asking them to do that but the code didn't
11:24:13 require any notice for those hearings.
11:24:17 That is all from 17 through page 21.
11:24:21 Are there any questions?
11:24:27 I can do the next one, too, also on page 21.
11:24:29 >>MARY MULHERN: Wait, I did have one question on that.
11:24:32 So are you saying that this now will give the ARC
11:24:41 precedence over zoning?
11:24:46 >>REBECCA KERT: If the design standards are more
11:24:48 restrictive in the historic district then these changes
11:24:52 should make it clear it's the city's intent that the
11:24:56 design standards if more restrictive would apply.
11:24:59 And until we get to some of these codes which actually
11:25:03 set the specific Heights for each area, this is as far
11:25:07 as we can go.
11:25:11 Any other questions?
11:25:13 The next recommendation from the legal department deals
11:25:16 with the VRB, and it simply said a zoning administrator
11:25:21 as the administrator for that board.
11:25:23 All the other boards have an administrator.
11:25:24 This is just clarification for the VRB.
11:25:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?
11:25:34 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
11:25:38 That is the end.
11:25:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any more questions of council?
11:25:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think that I feel comfortable
11:25:51 moving this ahead with the additional ability for the
11:25:53 public to review both the things that I brought up and
11:25:56 the thing that Ms. Mulhern brought up about community
11:25:59 And because of the way that things are structured these
11:26:03 days, I understand that if we want to have staff there
11:26:07 as well as the community as well as any council members
11:26:09 that we have to have it on the Thursday.
11:26:12 That's my understanding.
11:26:13 So I need your recommendation on -- perhaps a special
11:26:19 discussion meeting.
11:26:19 So I think we would probably need to get it on our
11:26:22 calendar now.
11:26:23 And I would think that the last Thursday of the month,
11:26:26 which is when we have workshops scheduled in the
11:26:28 morning, and we don't have -- I need to look at
11:26:33 somebody's calendar.
11:26:34 >> We do have an evening meeting.
11:26:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My suggestion is just --
11:26:42 >>MARY MULHERN: I didn't realize this when you asked
11:26:44 for new business earlier.
11:26:45 But I had scheduled next week a special discussion on
11:26:48 brick streets.
11:26:50 And after discussion with Julia, I think it's not
11:26:55 really necessary to have that.
11:26:56 It wasn't something that the public was really showing
11:27:01 any interest in, and we passed today some changes.
11:27:03 So I think in the future we may need that.
11:27:06 So if you wanted to do it, substitute the community
11:27:13 gardening, and what was the other thing?
11:27:16 The electric fence discussion.
11:27:20 Is it 1:30 next week?
11:27:23 >> If you could get us a list of community gardening
11:27:27 >> And the electric fence people.
11:27:28 >> If you could e-mail us those, we could send out an
11:27:31 e-mail to them as well with the language.
11:27:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
11:27:35 That's a great suggestion.
11:27:36 My motion would be that we have the special discussion.
11:27:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We don't have motions right now.
11:27:40 We may hear from the public before we take any action.
11:27:44 You have three minutes.
11:27:45 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Our issue really relates to the
11:27:50 electric fence changes.
11:27:51 And first of all, there's not a huge urgency to be
11:27:55 transmitting these things immediately for
11:28:00 The first time that the city took this up, there were
11:28:03 over, I guess, over three or four months of meetings
11:28:06 with the industry to talk about what the standards
11:28:08 were, what the safety precautions were that were
11:28:11 involved in this, and how you implement a safe system.
11:28:18 What we are asking you to do is continue this to the
11:28:20 next cycle, give us an opportunity to sit down and talk
11:28:22 about this.
11:28:23 We only got this proposed ordinance yesterday.
11:28:28 And Cindy Vaughan from North Carolina wanted to be here
11:28:34 today to ask for the same kinds of things.
11:28:36 There's valuable input from the industry side, and
11:28:39 discussions need to be held.
11:28:41 These fences are only utilized in the heavy industrial
11:28:44 areas, and also in the heavy commercial areas.
11:28:48 They are not up and down every street in the City of
11:28:51 Predominantly they are in areas that have heavy types
11:28:55 of automotive uses or industrial warehouse uses.
11:28:58 They are not allowed in general commercial uses.
11:29:02 So it's not what you would consider a truly
11:29:05 neighborhood activity area that generates a lot of
11:29:09 residential concern.
11:29:10 And there are some protections in the current code for
11:29:13 setbacks and things like that, to provide for
11:29:16 residential properties.
11:29:19 One of the other things that you are dealing with is
11:29:21 most of these are small businesses, with the exceptions
11:29:24 of the larger warehouses.
11:29:26 The applicants are typically small business owners who
11:29:29 are experiencing losses.
11:29:32 They are self-insured, or they are insured, and they
11:29:34 are not making claims against their policies because it
11:29:37 drives their policy premiums up through the roof.
11:29:40 They can't afford to go through these expensive
11:29:44 You're asking them to provide for police reports and
11:29:47 for a two-year period of time.
11:29:49 Some of these people haven't even been in the business
11:29:51 for two years.
11:29:52 And you are not providing any alternative here for a
11:29:54 personal affidavit a, or an affidavit from a company
11:29:58 that may have experienced losses.
11:30:00 So we are urging you to allow more discussion to occur
11:30:02 on this, postpone this, and there's no urgency in
11:30:06 adopting this and moving it forward at this time.
11:30:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else from the public?
11:30:17 All right.
11:30:18 Anyone else from the public?
11:30:23 >> Cindy Vaughan, central security, North Carolina.
11:30:26 I would just ask that you give us an opportunity to
11:30:29 present the facts.
11:30:30 I think a lot of the facts that are out there, a lot of
11:30:36 the assumed fact are not really true.
11:30:38 I mean, there's a lot of safety information that I
11:30:44 think you may have understood, the ones that are
11:30:46 objecting to this.
11:30:48 I would like an opportunity to present the facts of the
11:30:52 system, the safety of the system, the effectiveness of
11:30:55 the system, and the need of the system.
11:31:01 Then I would like to present to the anybody who has
11:31:03 concerns or questions because I have answers for
11:31:05 everything you are concerned about.
11:31:06 I have got facts to dispute that somebody is going to
11:31:11 get killed, somebody is going to get hurt, you know.
11:31:14 We have got that.
11:31:16 We just need an opportunity to present it.
11:31:19 And so we would just -- and we came before the council.
11:31:24 It may not have been this same council but it was this
11:31:26 same -- we did this same exercise three years ago and
11:31:29 got an ordinance that the council at that time felt was
11:31:33 a good working ordinance.
11:31:36 And they will were presented with all the information,
11:31:39 It was a safe, effective ordinance.
11:31:41 And now three years later we are having to go through
11:31:43 this again.
11:31:44 It seems very unfair that an ordinance is only good for
11:31:50 three years.
11:31:50 So I would just like the opportunity to be able to
11:31:52 present individually, at a public forum, whichever it
11:32:00 Thank you.
11:32:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else from the public?
11:32:03 Councilman Dingfelder.
11:32:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, and I won't dispute that
11:32:11 several of us, one, two, three of us were here and
11:32:13 participated in that process three years ago, and we
11:32:16 had an ordinance on the book.
11:32:18 But in this past year we actually got to see the
11:32:22 ordinance play out, and we are all familiar with that
11:32:24 when it went through the variance process.
11:32:26 Ironically, I have got at least two or three members of
11:32:29 the variance board who sent me e-mails saying that the
11:32:32 ordinance needs tweaking and needs strengthening, and
11:32:37 that's what we did.
11:32:38 And this is what our process is.
11:32:39 Frankly it's not a very fast-moving process.
11:32:43 It's probably a good thing, that we can have plenty of
11:32:45 public participation.
11:32:47 So what I am hearing right now is if we just let it go
11:32:50 forward in a draft form, Julia is going to have a
11:32:53 meeting pursuant to a motion next week with the public,
11:33:01 participate including you and Mr. Michelini.
11:33:03 And then we will go out to the Planning Commission, and
11:33:06 there will be plenty of public opportunity at the
11:33:08 Planning Commission to talk about it there, and tweak
11:33:10 it up, or they can make recommendations back.
11:33:15 That will come back for first reading and there will be
11:33:17 a whole slew of public opportunity.
11:33:19 So the problem is if we just delay it then we are stuck
11:33:24 with the same ordinance.
11:33:26 Somebody might come in for a variance and we might have
11:33:28 all that same kind of controversy that we had last
11:33:31 So unless you and your industry would want us to
11:33:34 consider a moratorium on electric fences in the
11:33:36 interim, which I don't favor, because I don't like
11:33:41 moratoriums, then I think we should just go ahead and
11:33:45 show respect to the members of the variance board,
11:33:47 including Mr. LaBour who wrote us an e-mail, to just
11:33:53 let this process move forward and see where it goes.
11:33:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move to close the
11:33:59 public hearing -- or the workshop.
11:34:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do we direct all of these to go to
11:34:07 the Planning Commission now?
11:34:08 Is that the only motion?
11:34:17 >> Oh, yes, were there any changes to any of the other
11:34:21 I didn't think so.
11:34:22 So there would be a motion obviously to set the special
11:34:24 discussion meeting and then I would be discussing a
11:34:25 motion to transmit as is to the Planning Commission for
11:34:28 recommendation hearing.
11:34:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:34:33 Councilman Miranda.
11:34:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11:34:40 What I heard from Mr. Michelini was that he just
11:34:43 received this yesterday?
11:34:48 >>JULIA COLE: I will tell you that I did not have a
11:34:50 chance to complete this because I did actually have to
11:34:54 do some serious review of two things.
11:34:57 One was the standard, but also the process, because the
11:35:02 process was problematic.
11:35:05 >> And I am not trying to hold you hostage.
11:35:07 I want to make sure that the distribution went orderly.
11:35:11 >>JULIA COLE: I was not able to get this out.
11:35:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Right.
11:35:17 So I would like to see something happen.
11:35:21 And maybe those that were here three years ago can help
11:35:26 us on this.
11:35:29 Some of us did vote on this three years ago.
11:35:32 And I would like to see some more in-depth.
11:35:37 This was just received through it.
11:35:39 I had my difficulties the last month but I just
11:35:41 received this today.
11:35:44 I haven't read all this.
11:35:45 I haven't read the thing even on the vendor ordinance,
11:35:50 which it works at times, and at times it has not
11:35:56 So I'm just thinking for myself I would not support
11:35:58 anything that changes this until we have a further
11:36:01 And I'm not opposed to two weeks.
11:36:03 But one week, I don't know if I can do all of this.
11:36:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Miller and then
11:36:10 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
11:36:11 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to say if you are going to
11:36:14 send it to the Planning Commission, when are you going
11:36:16 to have an opportunity to listen to the young lady
11:36:18 and -- I would like to give her time enough to get all
11:36:25 those things in before they send it to the Planning
11:36:28 I would -- Mr. Michelini got it yesterday.
11:36:33 Have you had a chance to read it, Mr. Michelini?
11:36:35 I haven't.
11:36:36 I'm just getting it.
11:36:37 >>STEVE MICHELINI: The difficulty is you are asking us
11:36:39 to respond to a document that's presumed to be
11:36:45 favorable to the City Council.
11:36:46 So when it goes over to the Planning Commission,
11:36:48 there's a presumption that you all have endorsed this.
11:36:52 And so then we are having to fight to put language in
11:36:54 or take language out, and it puts us in a defensive
11:36:59 We ought to be on the same playing field as everyone
11:37:02 We should have the same I am put and the same
11:37:04 availability to staff and the discussions that are
11:37:06 involved here.
11:37:07 And what Ms. Vaughan said was let's sit down with the
11:37:11 city attorney office and zoning and anyone else who
11:37:15 wants to be involved and discuss what are the
11:37:17 reasonable measures that should be included in this?
11:37:19 Not to come in at the eleventh hour and say here it is,
11:37:23 take this, and then let's try to amend it.
11:37:25 With all due respect to the folks on the Variance
11:37:27 Review Board, they are the body that hears this.
11:37:31 And then they are trying to give you input about what
11:37:33 they want done with the ordinance, you know.
11:37:35 And then when we have a case going to them, are we
11:37:38 going to get a fair hearing?
11:37:39 It the same kind of stuff that happens frequently when
11:37:42 you have ordinances being proposed, and they want to
11:37:46 weigh in on something, and then they are reviewing the
11:37:48 same thing they just weighed in on?
11:37:50 We need a chance for the strip to be represented, for
11:37:53 people to have a reasonable amount of time to discuss
11:37:55 it and have input in here about things, what standards
11:37:58 can be reasonably met.
11:38:02 We appreciate your consideration for the next cycle.
11:38:04 >>GWEN MILLER: I think we need to wait and have Mrs.
11:38:09 Vaughan have a chance to meet with them and Mr.
11:38:11 Michelini before we send it to the Planning Commission
11:38:14 so we don't come back and do the same thing over and
11:38:17 We have done it once.
11:38:18 Now changing it, we have to go back again, do it again.
11:38:22 I would rather wait, and if they need two or three
11:38:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This is an excellent conversation.
11:38:32 What we are trying to do is improve our ordinances.
11:38:36 That's why we are here.
11:38:37 That's what City Council does.
11:38:38 I think two weeks is reasonable.
11:38:39 We just got this.
11:38:40 So my motion -- and that provides plenty of time for
11:38:45 people to read it.
11:38:46 It's not that complimented.
11:38:47 The real heart of the issue on the electric fence is
11:38:52 where they would be.
11:38:54 Mrs. Vaughan, the real issue we face is we have no
11:38:57 problem with electric fences in industrial areas on the
11:39:00 edge of town.
11:39:01 Our issue where the rubber meets the road is where
11:39:04 there's an electric fence near a residential use.
11:39:06 We have certain commercial corridors that have that
11:39:11 That's why our citizens are concerned about.
11:39:14 And I think that we can come up with a way where we
11:39:16 will not disallow electric fences but we will protect
11:39:20 our residential neighborhoods.
11:39:21 That's the balance that we are seeking.
11:39:23 So I would like to make a motion that we have the
11:39:26 special discussion meeting in two weeks at 1:30.
11:39:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
11:39:30 >>MARY MULHERN: I think if that's okay with councilman
11:39:34 Miranda, it's fine with me, then we can discuss all
11:39:36 these issues, electric fences as well as the community
11:39:41 >>MARY MULHERN: The vendor ordinance, too?
11:39:45 >> It's only three of them.
11:39:46 It's only the electric fence, community garden and the
11:39:49 vendor ordinance.
11:39:53 Let me finish.
11:39:54 You are talking about having a special discussion
11:39:55 meeting next week --
11:39:57 >> No, two weeks.
11:39:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: When?
11:40:00 >> 1:30.
11:40:01 >> A regular meeting.
11:40:03 The 21st, you have special discussion meeting.
11:40:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Come back at 1:30.
11:40:10 >> Five on the 21st in the afternoon.
11:40:15 >> Then at 2:30.
11:40:20 It's the only opportunity for the public and the staff
11:40:21 and council members who are able to attend to have that
11:40:24 >>MARY MULHERN: No, it's not going to work at that
11:40:30 time if we have other things scheduled at 1:30.
11:40:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have five items that afternoon.
11:40:36 >> It depends.
11:40:37 Some of them are cursory.
11:40:38 >>MARY MULHERN: Is there some reason why we couldn't
11:40:43 take those three things and have a workshop on them at
11:40:46 our next workshop date?
11:40:50 >> In January you already have nine items already.
11:40:54 And continued to February or March, I think.
11:40:56 >> Then we get way behind with the Planning Commission
11:40:59 in terms of their cycle.
11:41:00 >> What about the next CRA meeting?
11:41:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That could work.
11:41:06 >>MARY MULHERN: Like three weeks.
11:41:07 >>CATHERINE COYLE: If I could, we might as well
11:41:11 continue them into the next cycle because the next
11:41:13 cycle closes next week.
11:41:14 And then in that next cycle we are going to start a
11:41:17 whole series of workshops and discussions.
11:41:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do you support a moratorium in the
11:41:25 >> No.
11:41:26 >> I didn't suggest a moratorium.
11:41:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's my problem because we could
11:41:30 end up with the same situation at Nebraska and Florida
11:41:32 that brought this to a head to come in.
11:41:36 And the minute it comes in they are going to be bound
11:41:38 by the existing ordinance.
11:41:39 So your suggestion is delay the whole thing for six
11:41:43 additional months.
11:41:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's not accurate.
11:41:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You delay it for six additional
11:41:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No.
11:41:48 What I'm hearing you say, you say this has to be done
11:41:50 by next week.
11:41:51 Is that what you are saying?
11:41:54 To meet the cycle?
11:41:56 >> Amendments in a process they process in a batch.
11:42:00 You already sent -- this is the finally piece to go
11:42:03 with that piece F.anything continues out too much
11:42:05 farther than basically a week we are out of that cycle.
11:42:08 We are in the next cycle.
11:42:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So what you are saying to council,
11:42:12 unless you really deal with this between now and next
11:42:14 week, you are into another cycle.
11:42:15 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Because it closes next week.
11:42:19 And that's where we are.
11:42:20 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, if I can.
11:42:23 The concept of the cycle is created by City Council
11:42:26 pursuant to the code, and that is the process of where
11:42:30 everything is batched so you don't have everything
11:42:33 But what happens, for instance what cycle -- here it is
11:42:36 January 7th.
11:42:37 What cycle are you dealing with now?
11:42:40 >>CATHERINE COYLE: This is the July cycle.
11:42:41 We had several public hearing delays unfortunately.
11:42:44 Not with council, with Planning Commission and other
11:42:47 >>MARTIN SHELBY: But in conversation with Ms. Cole is
11:42:51 one of the appeal hearings on January 21st, an
11:42:55 appeal of Barrio Latino which is presently the only
11:42:58 scheduled appeal hearing.
11:43:00 Ms. Cole, I'm sorry.
11:43:02 You are telling me the appeal hearing, the barrio is
11:43:05 not going to be going, to your knowledge, and therefore
11:43:09 that will free up that time?
11:43:11 >>CATHERINE COYLE: What I am told it is not right to
11:43:15 move forward.
11:43:16 I believe there is another appeal hearing that is ripe
11:43:22 in moving forward, and I do not know what else is on
11:43:25 your agenda in the afternoon.
11:43:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Chairman, I think I have a
11:43:28 Mr. Chairman, there is a simple solution to this.
11:43:34 If we vote today to send these things on, and we have a
11:43:38 workshop in two weeks on the 21st in the afternoon
11:43:41 and determine that we are not satisfied with them, we
11:43:43 can write a letter to the Planning Commission and say
11:43:47 we don't want to move forward with that.
11:43:48 But if we don't do this today, then we have no
11:43:51 opportunity for almost a year to move on these things.
11:43:54 And what we are doing is giving ourselves time.
11:44:01 As Ms. Cole pointed out, there are like four different
11:44:05 public hearing opportunities.
11:44:06 But we need to take some action on this today, if it's
11:44:11 even to are considered, and we can stop our action on
11:44:13 the 21st if we want.
11:44:14 >>CATHERINE COYLE: These are city-initiated amendments.
11:44:19 If I appear at the Planning Commission to present these
11:44:21 and I say this one is withdrawn, it's withdrawn,
11:44:24 because it's a city-initiated amendment.
11:44:26 >> I understand one of the appeal hearings was not rape
11:44:34 to go forward.
11:44:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: One is an amendment?
11:44:37 >>JULIA COLE: No, the one from the BLC, it is ripe to
11:44:40 go forward.
11:44:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So we have a couple of appeal hearings
11:44:44 in the afternoon.
11:44:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We could schedule these at three.
11:44:47 That would be my motion to move on this today and
11:44:49 schedule a special discussion meeting at 3:00 on the
11:44:53 That's my motion.
11:44:54 >> Second.
11:44:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: My question to council again, a special
11:44:59 discussion meeting on the 21st at 3:00, right?
11:45:04 What is the intent again of workshops?
11:45:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: For special discussion.
11:45:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I don't care what it is.
11:45:14 You are having another public hearing.
11:45:19 When we created the workshop format, it is the
11:45:23 opportunity to give everybody the opportunity to come
11:45:24 in, and we hear them and they hear us.
11:45:27 We gather information
11:45:29 And at the same time you give the public the
11:45:32 opportunity to talk to us.
11:45:33 So now what we have done is the workshop, create
11:45:39 another format, you have created another format to have
11:45:41 another public hearing is what you have done.
11:45:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think your point is very well
11:45:50 And I think that -- I am going to withdraw my second to
11:45:53 Mrs. Saul-Sena's motion because I think it does jam up
11:45:56 that 21st too much.
11:45:58 I like Mr. Chairman's suggestion.
11:46:00 I am going to suggest this.
11:46:01 If we just go ahead and transmit all this stuff, so it
11:46:04 keeps chugging along, okay, we can put these issues
11:46:08 into our March workshop, because, Kathy, when would
11:46:13 this normally be scheduled for first reading?
11:46:16 >> I would be bringing it back to you for first reading
11:46:18 the second meeting in February.
11:46:19 >> First reading?
11:46:22 After the Planning Commission?
11:46:24 When is the Planning Commission?
11:46:25 >>> Planning Commission is the second Monday of the
11:46:28 So I would be bringing it back --
11:46:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: In other words, we can pull these
11:46:32 three items out.
11:46:36 As far as adoption they don't have to go with the
11:46:41 >>> That's correct.
11:46:42 I mean, get over there and back here, at that point --
11:46:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We can leave them in this cycle,
11:46:50 But pull them, schedule the workshop for these three
11:46:53 items for whenever the next workshop is available,
11:46:57 February or March, and then if we want to proceed after
11:47:02 the workshop with these, any of these, three of these,
11:47:05 we can just schedule those public hearings.
11:47:08 >>CATHERINE COYLE: That's where you have the
11:47:10 discussion, when the ordinances come back from two
11:47:14 blocks down.
11:47:14 >> So I think that's a good compromise.
11:47:18 So we go ahead, leave these into the batch, transmit
11:47:22 over to the Planning Commission, let them go the
11:47:25 course, and then when they come back, we will not hear
11:47:28 them in the February 1st readings, but go ahead and
11:47:35 defer them until after the March workshop.
11:47:40 And then that way there's plenty of time for everybody
11:47:42 to go ahead and come down here and give us their input.
11:47:45 Because Pete Johnson and Steve LaBour and some other
11:47:49 people who have been sending me e-mails as well as Ms.
11:47:54 Saul-Sena's historic preservation group have expressed
11:48:00 concern and I think that's a good compromise, if
11:48:02 everybody understand it is compromise.
11:48:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, thank you.
11:48:10 Just sitting back and listening.
11:48:12 Is this ordinance going to be specifically for certain
11:48:14 geographical areas?
11:48:16 Are we talking about where they can and cannot go?
11:48:19 Is it the whole city?
11:48:20 What is it we are talking about?
11:48:22 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Let me ask a clarifying question
11:48:25 because I think all these amendments have now been
11:48:27 jumbled up a little bit.
11:48:28 Which one?
11:48:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The fence.
11:48:31 >>> The fencing is typically industrial district.
11:48:33 And for industrial uses and heavy commercial uses.
11:48:36 So it's anywhere in the city that qualifies.
11:48:39 The clarifying language is, as Ms. Cole described, it
11:48:44 doesn't necessarily change -- what we didn't change was
11:48:47 the dimensional standards.
11:48:48 You get the right height.
11:48:50 You get right setbacks, everything else.
11:48:52 What's changing is the process.
11:48:55 What that security need is, how that's defined and the
11:48:57 process for that to demonstrate.
11:49:00 To change where it is in the city.
11:49:02 >> A little cursory review -- and I just got this
11:49:06 today -- the property demonstrates clearly the activity
11:49:13 in the prayer two years.
11:49:14 I don't know of no law that we have in the City of
11:49:16 Tampa where you have to demonstrate that something has
11:49:19 been wrongly done for two years before we take action.
11:49:31 I mean, does any corn store have to be two years being
11:49:36 robbed before we send out the police?
11:49:37 I don't think so.
11:49:38 So what I'm saying to myself is, I really need -- I'm
11:49:43 not against this at all.
11:49:44 But I really need what these things mean in
11:49:49 Not in words but in rhythm.
11:49:52 How are they going to work together in concert to solve
11:49:56 our problems?
11:49:57 You did mention heavy industrial and so forth and so
11:50:01 And I understand that.
11:50:03 And there's certainly neighborhoods have to be
11:50:06 protected, should be protected and must be protected.
11:50:09 But on the other side of the coin, for someone to have
11:50:12 to wait two years, maybe they are there only six months
11:50:16 or a year, and they have seam seen some circumstances
11:50:19 of today's society, and when you look around it's not
11:50:23 this city, it's everywhere.
11:50:27 In this country and around the world.
11:50:28 You need more and more protection for your own good and
11:50:31 your own safety.
11:50:32 Not to mention your own business.
11:50:38 I don't know.
11:50:40 I like to see a little bit more extension of this, or
11:50:46 the answer as could be properly answered.
11:50:48 We are now saying we don't want to go to the next cycle
11:50:50 but we are going to put it in this cycle, and then we
11:50:52 are going to take it out of the cycle.
11:50:54 So we are only kidding ourselves.
11:50:57 That's how I view it.
11:50:59 I'm telling myself -- I've done it myself.
11:51:02 So Charlie, you are going to put it in the next cycle?
11:51:06 But then you are going to put it up February and make
11:51:08 me take it out.
11:51:10 It's like pitching a ball and a home comes the home
11:51:13 run, and the guy says I hope I didn't pitch that ball,
11:51:16 it gone already.
11:51:17 And that's happened to me, too.
11:51:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think because this is such a
11:51:27 protracted process, we need to get this show on the
11:51:30 So I don't know who seconded John's motion.
11:51:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There wasn't a second.
11:51:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'll second it, that we move what's
11:51:40 before us, and we schedule a workshop on the three in
11:51:44 February or March is our workshop schedule allows.
11:51:47 Would you like to take a look at the workshop schedule?
11:51:49 I don't have one in front of me.
11:51:52 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Can I ask a question about the third
11:51:54 one related to vendors?
11:51:55 It sounds based on the discussion that the conversation
11:51:57 that we were having with you, Mr. Miranda, you had a
11:52:00 larger question about these temporary vendors.
11:52:03 Is that correct?
11:52:03 Because the language that's contained in here literally
11:52:06 is just changing the numbering and then how the
11:52:09 statement in the application is.
11:52:11 This does not deal with the criteria.
11:52:14 This particular change I wouldn't think would need to
11:52:16 be held up.
11:52:17 But I do understand -- because this change doesn't deal
11:52:20 with what I think you are talking about, which is when
11:52:23 do they operate and where and how?
11:52:25 That's not what this change deals with.
11:52:27 So even if this with were to be held and then moved
11:52:31 forward, it would have to go back to the cycle anyway
11:52:34 because it would have to go back to the Planning
11:52:35 Commission if you added more language, you know, and
11:52:38 how they operate.
11:52:39 Because that's not what this was to begin with, which
11:52:41 is fine.
11:52:41 I just wanted to butt that out there.
11:52:45 And I don't mind having a vendor conversation.
11:52:48 They are fascinating.
11:52:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: My suggestion at this point, know how
11:52:59 the issue is first, and then come back to the two or
11:53:02 three remaining ones.
11:53:03 >>> The first one was the alcohol changes.
11:53:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Can we just pass -- just pull the two
11:53:14 or three out and pass the other one.
11:53:16 Can we just do that?
11:53:21 Turn on your Mike, please.
11:53:22 >>MARY MULHERN: I move that transmitting the
11:53:25 recommendations to the Planning Commission excluding
11:53:28 the vendor section, the community gardens section, and
11:53:34 the -- section.
11:53:37 >> Second.
11:53:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's moved and seconded to transmit to
11:53:40 the Planning Commission, two of the three.
11:53:44 All in favor?
11:53:46 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
11:53:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
11:53:48 I think in order to move things along I would like to
11:53:51 move that we pass along to the Planning Commission
11:53:53 those others with an understanding that probably they
11:53:58 are going to be just fine as they are with additional
11:54:00 conversation study, but if not we have the opportunity
11:54:03 in the future to tweak them.
11:54:05 So my motion is to move them to the Planning
11:54:08 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
11:54:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Any discussion on those?
11:54:16 There's a motion to move the other three to the
11:54:18 Planning Commission.
11:54:19 Moved and seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
11:54:21 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:54:24 >> Roll call.
11:54:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
11:54:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No.
11:54:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
11:54:43 >>GWEN MILLER: No.
11:54:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No.
11:54:46 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
11:54:52 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: No.
11:54:53 >>CLERK: The motion failed 3 to 4 with Miranda,
11:54:56 Miller, Scott, Caetano voting no.
11:54:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to ask Ms. Coyle a
11:55:04 If we were to put these in the next batch so there
11:55:07 would be plenty of time for conversation about them,
11:55:11 would you recommend -- have you already identified a
11:55:13 time when we would have a workshop on the next batch of
11:55:17 text changes?
11:55:19 >> We would be looking at probably an April workshop.
11:55:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Let's go ahead and get that on our
11:55:23 workshop schedule which tends to fill up.
11:55:25 So not only these but other things that you will be
11:55:27 bringing forward.
11:55:28 >>> These are called the January text amendment cycle.
11:55:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move that we put
11:55:33 the January text amendment cycle as part of our April
11:55:40 Thank you.
11:55:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: We have one item scheduled at 9:15
11:55:46 and that's to discuss the digital billboard issue.
11:55:52 [ Laughter ]
11:55:54 >> After lunch.
11:55:56 [ Laughter ]
11:55:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can we put that on for 1:30 that
11:56:00 I think we have a night meeting in April so we will be
11:56:02 able to fill up our afternoon.
11:56:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: How is March?
11:56:10 >>CATHERINE COYLE: March would probably be too soon for
11:56:13 We also hold public meetings before we come to you as
11:56:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Maybe we could put these before the
11:56:18 digital billboard issue.
11:56:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What date are we talking about?
11:56:27 >> April.
11:56:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That April workshop day we don't
11:56:30 have a night meeting which is a good thing.
11:56:32 You so maybe we should just schedule this for 1:30.
11:56:37 Or 11:00.
11:56:37 Let's say 11:00.
11:56:42 Let's be optimistic.
11:56:43 I'll put it in the hands of Mr. Chairman.
11:56:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think we should put this first and
11:56:49 then the digital billboard.
11:56:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So my motion would be this be on
11:56:52 the workshop meeting of April, scheduled before the
11:56:55 digital billboard conversations.
11:56:56 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, just so the calendar
11:57:01 reflects council direction.
11:57:02 You presently have the workshop, the digital billboard
11:57:05 in April, set for 9:15.
11:57:07 Did you want to change that time and set this one --
11:57:10 did you want to set this for 9:00 after 5:00
11:57:13 indications? Right now it's presently set for 9:15.
11:57:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We can put this one ahead of that, and
11:57:21 then maybe take up the digital billboards right after
11:57:24 that, 9:45.
11:57:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think 10:00 is more realistic.
11:57:29 There are three issues we are discussing.
11:57:31 Schedule this for 9:15 and the digital billboards for
11:57:37 That's my motion.
11:57:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And that was seconded by councilman
11:57:41 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:57:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: One other quick thing.
11:57:49 I had an opportunity to speak with Julia Cole.
11:57:52 She said we actually do have rules.
11:57:54 So I would like to make a motion to receive a written
11:57:57 report on the city's transportation rules related to
11:58:00 continuous sidewalks, new driveways, and whether or not
11:58:03 we require consistent materials for public sidewalks or
11:58:07 driveways that utilize alternative materials.
11:58:10 Cathy Coyle, she understands what I said.
11:58:15 >> Second.
11:58:16 (Motion carried).
11:58:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You want a date on that or not?
11:58:23 A written report?
11:58:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Written report.
11:58:27 Does that give you enough time or would you rather have
11:58:29 February 4th?
11:58:30 >>CATHERINE COYLE: A little more time would be good
11:58:32 just to put it together.
11:58:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: February 4th.
11:58:36 Thank you.
11:58:36 February 4th.
11:58:37 >>CATHERINE COYLE: What was the date for the workshop?
11:58:41 >> April workshop.
11:58:42 >>MARTIN SHELBY: April 22nd, 2010.
11:58:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I need to make a motion, council.
11:58:50 Under new business.
11:58:51 Under the breakfast on the Martin Luther King day they
11:58:55 are going requesting a letter from the chairman.
11:58:57 So I would like to make a motion the chairman draft a
11:59:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
11:59:02 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor?
11:59:07 >>MARY MULHERN: Then I need to make the motion to
11:59:09 remove from the agenda for next week the special
11:59:12 discussion meeting on brick streets.
11:59:14 That was at 1:30.
11:59:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
11:59:17 All in favor?
11:59:21 Motion to receive and file?
11:59:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
11:59:25 >> Second.
11:59:25 (Motion carried).
11:59:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other business that needs to come
11:59:28 before council?
11:59:28 Thank you, council today.
11:59:30 We stand adjourned till next week.
11:59:33 (City Council meeting adjourned at 12:00 noon)
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