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Tampa City Council meeting
Thursday, January 28,2010
6:00 p.m. session

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18:06:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The Tampa City Council will come to order.

18:06:16 We will have roll call.

18:06:16 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.

18:06:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.

18:06:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.

18:06:24 >> Dingfelder and --

18:06:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Scott here.

18:06:27 >> For the record, we have a memo from Councilwoman

18:06:29 Miller.

18:06:33 Please be advised I am not able to attend tonight's City

18:06:33 Council meeting.

18:06:36 I need to carry my mother to the emergency room

18:06:36 immediately.

18:06:39 I am sorry for any inconvenience my absence may cause.

18:06:41 Regrettably yours.

18:06:44 This is from Councilwoman Miller.

18:06:48 And this morning, we had one from Councilwoman Mulhern,

18:06:49 right?

18:06:49 >> That's correct.

18:06:53 And she -- I have been contacted by her office, and I have

18:06:56 been informed she is not able to be here again tonight,

18:07:01 and she apologizes for her absence.

18:07:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So thus far we only have four City

18:07:05 Council persons tonight.

18:07:09 So let's find out where we go from here.

18:07:11 >> We can do one item at least.

18:07:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I know we have one continuance request.

18:07:17 Item number 4, I believe.

18:07:20 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Good evening, Council, Abbye Feeley, Land

18:07:21 Development Coordination.

18:07:25 On your agenda tonight, you do have six items.

18:07:29 Item number four, we have received written correspondence

18:07:33 from attorney James Porter requesting a continuance to

18:07:37 February 25, 2010 at 6 p.m.

18:07:40 >> If we can have a motion to open the public hearing.

18:07:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to open.

18:07:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved and opened.

18:07:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

18:07:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All of them, not just -- 2 through 6.

18:07:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.

18:07:53 Opposes.

18:07:55 Is the petitioner here?

18:07:57 >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Board.

18:08:01 Jim Porter, asking for a continuance.

18:08:04 We have provided notice -- written notice to all of the

18:08:05 people who received original notice.

18:08:09 I would like to submit that into the record and would like

18:08:11 to go forward February 25.

18:08:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: February 25.

18:08:15 Anyone from the public wish to address Council on this














18:08:16 continuance?

18:08:20 Anyone here from the public wish to address Council?

18:08:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.

18:08:23 >> Second.

18:08:23 [Inaudible]

18:08:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.

18:08:32 Opposes?

18:08:37 >> Thank you, Council.

18:08:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Miss Feeley.

18:08:44 Do we have any other continuances?

18:08:45 Is that the only one?

18:08:48 >>ABBYE FEELEY: That I am aware of at this time, yes,

18:08:48 sir.

18:08:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: If you were going to be addressing

18:08:52 Council tonight, please stand and be sworn.

18:08:55 If you were going to talk, speak, say good evening,

18:09:00 whatever, stand up and be sworn.

18:09:00 [Oath Adminstered by Clerk]

18:09:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, we need to find out -- I think it

18:09:21 requires five Council persons so you may ask for a

18:09:22 continuance.

18:09:23 Do you want to speak to that?

18:09:26 >> Actually, Mr. Chairman, there is no formal rule with

18:09:27 regard to the number of councilmembers.

18:09:32 The charter requires that in order for Council to take














18:09:35 action both for or against any item, it requires a vote of

18:09:36 four.

18:09:41 As you know, four also is a quorum, but in this case

18:09:45 having only four councilmembers will require an unanimous

18:09:49 decision by this decision-making board relative to

18:09:50 somebody's petition.

18:09:54 That being the case, Council, that could be perceived as

18:09:58 an unreasonable burden, but I would ask if anybody wishes

18:10:02 to go -- wishes to ask for a continuance, now would be a

18:10:05 time to ask for a continuance being as how there are only

18:10:06 four members present.

18:10:11 If you do go forward, that you do go forward knowing that

18:10:15 it would require an unanimous vote and an affirmative

18:10:18 choice on the petitioner's part to seek to go forward

18:10:22 knowing there were only four councilmembers present.

18:10:27 That being said, Mr. Chairman, you may request inquiries

18:10:32 for anyone who may ask for a continuance of the four

18:10:36 members of the board constituting an entire board.

18:10:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's go down.

18:10:37 Item 1.

18:10:39 Is someone here?

18:10:40 The petitioner here.

18:10:47 Do you want a continuance on item 1, Z09-30?

18:10:50 >> Gina Grimes, Hill, Ward and Henderson.

18:10:52 We are going to move forward tonight.














18:10:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Going to move forward tonight.

18:11:00 Item 2, file number Z10-02.

18:11:02 Petitioner, Item 2.

18:11:07 >> Mr. Chairman, do we know if Mr. Dingfelder --

18:11:09 We would like to move forward.

18:11:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: On Item 2 as well.

18:11:17 Item 3 on file number Z10-01.

18:11:21 Busch Realty -- is that yours?

18:11:23 >> He said we like to move forward.

18:11:28 He is representing the petitioner on 3.

18:11:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So you -- okay.

18:11:30 All right.

18:11:35 Let the record reflect that he is nodding his head in the

18:11:36 affirmative.

18:11:41 Okay, Item 5, z09-45.

18:11:43 >> I am here -- Jim Shimberg.

18:11:44 I am here for 5 and 6.

18:11:46 I just have a quick question.

18:11:51 If it was continued, when would that be?

18:11:56 And what happens if it goes toward and 2-2, 3-1 and 3-3?

18:12:00 Does that automatically continue it to a time when it is a

18:12:02 full board?

18:12:03 [Inaudible]

18:12:10 -- the schedule is February -- excuse me, February 25;

18:12:16 however, counsel you are aware of the fact --














18:12:17 >> We can't have it on the 25th.

18:12:19 That is a long agenda.

18:12:21 I can tell that you agenda is going to be heavy.

18:12:25 >> The other options would be to either push it to March,

18:12:28 or there is presently nothing at night scheduled for

18:12:29 February 11.

18:12:31 That meeting has been cancelled, but that evening meeting

18:12:34 is available if Council so chooses.

18:12:36 A CRA in the morning.

18:12:37 Nothing scheduled in the evening.

18:12:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Why don't we move this to the 25th

18:12:43 because we only have one meeting.

18:12:44 >> So the next meeting would be March.

18:12:49 The next evening meeting will be the 11th, but you have a

18:12:54 5:00 amendment to the Tampa Comprehensive Plan.

18:12:57 And community development block grant.

18:13:01 I don't know how many rezonings are scheduled presently.

18:13:04 Doesn't look like many March, so that will be --

18:13:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: March.

18:13:09 >> But per Council's rules, failure to receive four votes

18:13:13 either for or against would be continued to the next

18:13:15 regular meeting under unfinished business and the

18:13:18 councilmembers who were absent would have the opportunity

18:13:21 to review the record and be able to vote on that day.

18:13:23 The public hearing would be closed and no additional














18:13:27 testimony would be taken unless the councilmember who is

18:13:30 absent wishes to make inquiries, but other than that just

18:13:32 an up and down vote.

18:13:34 >> I know a number of people here for this item and I need

18:13:36 to consult with my client if possible.

18:13:38 I know that you have a couple others that you are going to

18:13:39 take.

18:13:41 Can we come back and tell you our decision?

18:13:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's fine.

18:13:45 Then we will proceed with Item 1.

18:13:48 >> Mr. Chairman, if we can, and I apologize, before we

18:13:52 begin, all written communication relative to tonight's

18:13:55 hearing that has been available for public inspection in

18:13:58 City Council's office be received and filed into record by

18:13:59 motion please.

18:14:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.

18:14:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

18:14:04 All in favor signify by saying aye.

18:14:08 >> A brief reminder if any members of Council had any

18:14:14 verbal communication with any member of the public, that

18:14:16 member should disclose the person or persons with whom the

18:14:19 verbal communication occurred and the substance of that

18:14:24 verbal communication.

18:14:28 Once again a sign-up sheet is outside, and I am asking

18:14:32 that you sign it if you are testifying and I am putting a














18:14:34 reminder that all those who testify have to be sworn.

18:14:35 Thank you.

18:14:40 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Good evening, Council, Abbye Feeley, Land

18:14:45 Development, the first case on your agenda is case Z09-30.

18:14:47 503 and 505 South Boulevard.

18:14:51 The request is from PD planned development, retail

18:14:55 residential office to PD, planned development, retail

18:14:59 residential office, school parking and school.

18:15:03 Going to turn this over to Mr. Garcia to discuss the

18:15:07 Planning Commission portion -- sorry to miss coal to

18:15:07 discuss this.

18:15:10 This rezoning -- Miss Cole to discuss this.

18:15:13 This rezoning -- the third time we have rezoned this piece

18:15:13 together.

18:15:17 We rezoned it twice together a couple of years ago.

18:15:20 The desire is to keep the current PD on the property and

18:15:23 add two additional uses which would be school parking and

18:15:25 potential future school building.

18:15:33 >>JULIA COLE: Julia Cole, Legal Department.

18:15:36 I just wanted to remind Council that similar to other

18:15:39 rezoning petitions which have been brought forward by the

18:15:42 school board, if the school board is seeking to expand or

18:15:46 create a new school site, you are limited in how you

18:15:47 review that petition.

18:15:50 You do not have the authority to deny the petition.














18:15:53 You are simply reviewing the petition for the purposes of

18:15:57 determining reasonable conditions which can be placed upon

18:15:58 the -- the approval.

18:16:04 So it is similar to a previous one that we handled I want

18:16:07 to say about a month ago because it is the school board

18:16:09 coming forward with a petition.

18:16:11 You are limited by Florida statutes in the actions you can

18:16:12 take.

18:16:12 Thank you.

18:16:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Planning Commission.

18:16:23 >>TONY GARCIA: Good evening, members of Council, Tony

18:16:25 Garcia, Planning Commission staff.

18:16:26 I have been sworn.

18:16:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Good evening.

18:16:35 >>TONY GARCIA: We will go straight to our vision map for

18:16:38 the city.

18:16:40 This site is located within the central district, which is

18:16:43 one of our districts that we are looking at for

18:16:47 concentrating growth and long with the Westshore district

18:16:49 and the University district.

18:16:52 We have our two stable districts within the city which are

18:16:55 the South district and north district.

18:17:01 Specifically within this district is the parcel in

18:17:05 question that Miss Feeley earlier alluded to.

18:17:11 In the proximity of Gorrie Elementary and also to Wilson














18:17:11 elementary school.

18:17:15 I know that despite one of the uses, we already know this

18:17:18 has been zoned -- the first time was for this one parcel

18:17:20 and then acquired the second parcel that was likely moved

18:17:22 to the second zoning.

18:17:25 As a result of that, what was brought forward to you was a

18:17:29 very nice vertically integrated mixed use project which is

18:17:32 really the type of thing we were wanting to see for this

18:17:35 particular area.

18:17:39 Consequently because of the economy, the applicant was

18:17:42 forced to try to seek a different kind of alternative than

18:17:44 what they currently have.

18:17:47 The school board has come into agreement with them to

18:17:51 acquire the property or the process of acquiring that

18:17:54 property to allow the PD to develop should future economic

18:17:57 conditions move forward in a positive manner which we are

18:17:59 hoping will happen fairly soon, or the option of either

18:18:04 putting a school building on the site or have it serve as

18:18:08 parking for the -- for the school site.

18:18:11 I am not clear appeared you will probably have to find out

18:18:14 from the school district if this will be parking available

18:18:17 to both schools because in walking distance from both

18:18:17 schools.

18:18:21 I wasn't too clear if it was available for both or not.

18:18:24 It is in the district so it is considered for this type of














18:18:26 infill development and this type of growth.

18:18:32 As you can see from the aerial -- sorry.

18:18:37 This is a pretty stable residential area even though it is

18:18:38 within the central district.

18:18:43 You can see that you do have a -- an urban village here

18:18:47 which is Hyde Park which is very stable in particular area

18:18:50 basically represents what we consider professional office

18:18:55 district, the central business district which lies to the

18:18:55 east.

18:18:57 The Planning Commission based on the facts presented finds

18:19:01 the proposed request made by the applicant consistent with

18:19:03 the comprehensive plan.

18:19:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Miss Feeley.

18:19:11 Any questions by Council?

18:19:14 >> As Mr. Garcia stated, this is a request to rezone PD to

18:19:15 PD.

18:19:18 There are -- and you will see in the staff report, there

18:19:20 were several waivers that were requested under the

18:19:21 existing PD.

18:19:23 There are a couple of waivers that are being requested

18:19:28 under this PD, and that is to reduce the required buffer

18:19:30 from 10 feet to 3 feet.

18:19:34 Also to reduce the required drive aisle from 26 feet to 24

18:19:38 feet, which is typical, and to allow Commercial traffic

18:19:44 access to a local street which is west DeLeon.














18:19:50 That was a waiver that was approved and required again.

18:19:53 Also I will go ahead and briefly show you pictures of the

18:19:54 site.

18:19:57 I do want to mention the request under the parking lot

18:19:59 would be for 90-space parking lot.

18:20:02 The site is .98 acres.

18:20:09 And it would have access on to the Boulevard and DeLeon.

18:20:14 The future school building would be developed under the

18:20:18 arm 24 standards, but as most you know in a PD or planned

18:20:20 development we have an administrative process called a

18:20:23 substantial change process in which we would review those

18:20:27 modifications to make sure they work concurrent with those

18:20:27 standards.

18:20:30 So there is not currently a site plan that would address

18:20:31 that future building.

18:20:34 We would handle it through that process.

18:20:39 I also provided for the record a letter of support from

18:20:42 the President of Hyde Park North neighborhood that was

18:20:52 received by the Land Development Coordination office.

18:20:55 Sorry about that.

18:20:59 I will go ahead and show you the zoning atlas.

18:21:02 There are many PDs in this area.

18:21:05 This is Boulevard running north-South just to the east of

18:21:06 the property.

18:21:07 Swann down to the South.














18:21:09 And Leon to the South.

18:21:11 Horatio to the north.

18:21:15 I am about to show you some pictures of the PD here for

18:21:18 Horizon Bay assisted living facility.

18:21:25 You have parking along here.

18:21:29 As Mr. Garcia mentioned Gorrie Elementary here.

18:21:32 Wilson elementary school in this area.

18:21:36 And a series of PDs and RO-1s for office uses along this

18:21:39 segment of Boulevard.

18:21:43 The site is currently vacant.

18:21:50 As you can see.

18:21:53 I actually went back out today because the first time I

18:21:57 was out, they had not broken ground on that, and I wanted

18:21:59 to provide some pictures of that.

18:22:04 This is the site today.

18:22:06 Grass a little bit affected by the freeze.

18:22:09 Immediately across the street, gorrie.

18:22:19 Another shot of gorrie, looking north.

18:22:20 And Boulevard.

18:22:26 This is the southeast corner of Boulevard and DeLeon.

18:22:32 This is another picture looking north.

18:22:36 This is the additional parking that is north of the site

18:22:38 that serves Meridian research.

18:22:42 I have some additional pictures if necessary.

18:22:44 I think you all are familiar with this area.














18:22:48 Staff did find this request consistent with the exception

18:22:51 of the Transportation division that has an objection to

18:22:54 the parking lot having access on to DeLeon.

18:22:56 Transportation is present this evening to speak to that

18:22:59 finding of inconsistency.

18:23:01 Staff is available for any questions.

18:23:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions?

18:23:06 >>ABBYE FEELEY: We did have one revision that would be

18:23:10 necessary between first and second reading to address

18:23:21 measurement of the trees.

18:23:29 >> Is staff going to speak to their objection?

18:23:31 >> Manuel Martin, Transportation.

18:23:34 Transportation's objection to the local street is based on

18:23:37 receiving a lot of complaints of parking in the area.

18:23:41 We believe that the -- included residential trips that

18:23:47 allow for internal capture, allow for residents to work

18:23:48 there and not be able to drive.

18:23:52 But this rezoning is for 100% Commercial trips.

18:23:57 The frontage -- the frontage on Boulevard is enough for

18:24:01 two full access driveways.

18:24:06 I told the petitioner that at DRZ, but the neighborhood

18:24:09 was against having two full-access drives on Boulevard,

18:24:14 but having spoken with traffic calming and the complaints

18:24:17 that we have gotten because of the parking and I did go --

18:24:18 I have a field trip today.














18:24:23 And it is parking across the sidewalks on DeLeon.

18:24:26 They are double parking on DeLeon.

18:24:32 And that's the reason for the standing objection.

18:24:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just as a long shot having been a

18:24:38 Gorrie dad, some of that parking you are seeing on the

18:24:43 street might be alleviated by the parking that I assume

18:24:45 the school is about to tell us about.

18:24:48 >> Yes, we are not objecting to the parking that actually

18:24:52 would help relieve some of the parking issues in the area.

18:24:56 Like the concentration of traffic to be on --

18:24:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No residential that I can picture

18:25:01 right in that immediate block or so, is there?

18:25:02 >> There is some --

18:25:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Like across --

18:25:07 >> Down DeLeon Boulevard.

18:25:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I mean -- you are objecting to parking

18:25:12 on -- on into the access on DeLeon.

18:25:16 But right across DeLeon from there is Commercial, isn't

18:25:17 it?

18:25:19 >> Yes.

18:25:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.

18:25:22 The other -- the other concern I would have about your

18:25:28 concern is that Boulevard is kind of busy for people to

18:25:31 get in and out -- you know in and out and in and out.

18:25:36 A lot easier to get in and out on DeLeon than Boulevard.














18:25:39 >> Actually with the field visit, we determined it was not

18:25:40 that busy.

18:25:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What time did you go.

18:25:45 >> When the school let out at 2:15.

18:25:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It is busier at rush hour.

18:25:47 Okay.

18:25:49 Thank you.

18:25:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner.

18:25:56 >> Good evening, Councilmembers, Gina Grimes with Hill,

18:26:00 Ward and Henderson, 101 East Kennedy Boulevard.

18:26:02 We represent the school district on this matter.

18:26:05 And joining me this evening representing the school

18:26:09 district as well is Kathy Valdez, the chief facilities

18:26:16 officer, Lorraine Duffy-Suarez who will speak later as an

18:26:19 expert witness who is manager of Growth Management and

18:26:24 joining us is the assistant principal from Gorrie, Miss

18:26:25 Harrison.

18:26:28 I believe Miss Feeley mentioned the school board has a

18:26:29 contract to purchase this property.

18:26:31 They don't tone as of yet.

18:26:36 And I want to just address also why we are here before you

18:26:37 with a PD.

18:26:41 You may recall that this matter and this item came before

18:26:44 you a couple different times in the fall, and that was

18:26:47 because when the school board was in negotiations with the














18:26:50 property owner to enter into a contract, the property

18:26:57 owner found a RM-4 zoning application for this property to

18:26:59 accommodate the school use.

18:27:02 RM-24 does in fact allow school -- including school

18:27:03 parking.

18:27:06 That was what was initially filed.

18:27:09 However, once the contract was actually entered into, the

18:27:11 neighborhood association spoke to the school board and

18:27:13 said they were a little bit concerned with it being

18:27:16 rezoned to RM-24 for a school.

18:27:19 They were concerned about the -- the broad number of uses

18:27:23 that were allowed under the RM-24.

18:27:25 So the school board amended the petition back in September

18:27:29 to a PD so we would be able to address concerns of the

18:27:32 neighborhood association and anyone else that had

18:27:32 concerns.

18:27:35 So that's why we have a PD as opposed to RM-24.

18:27:39 Most of that area is in fact zoned RM-24.

18:27:42 Both Miss Feeley and Mr. Garcia told you what the proposal

18:27:43 is.

18:27:44 I am not going to repeat that.

18:27:47 I know you have a long agenda and a lot of people here to

18:27:50 speak, but what I want to explain is what this rezoning

18:27:56 will do for the school board as far as the purpose of it.

18:27:59 This acquisition and the rezoning will allow the school














18:28:02 district to address both the present needs for Gorrie

18:28:06 elementary and the future needs for Gorrie elementary.

18:28:10 It will address the future needs by providing a school

18:28:12 site that will allow an additional school building, and

18:28:16 that's one of our alternative uses.

18:28:20 Right now this year Gorrie Elementary was 23 students over

18:28:25 capacity, and Miss Suarez is going to address you later as

18:28:27 far as the growth projections nor area and perhaps the

18:28:31 need in the future for an additional school building to

18:28:36 serve both Gorrie and as they grow and will Allison

18:28:37 likewise grow.

18:28:40 This zoning -- this application and this rezoning will

18:28:44 also allow us to address the present need of Gorrie and

18:28:44 this is parking.

18:28:48 There is a serious parking shortage at Gorrie Elementary,

18:28:51 and I know there is -- we understand there have been

18:28:54 questions raised about whether there really is in fact a

18:28:58 parking shortage at Gorrie and whether we really do need

18:29:03 this parking lot because there is another school board lot

18:29:05 a little further north on Boulevard.

18:29:07 I know there are a lot of people here that deal with the

18:29:09 parking shortage every day and they will be able to tell

18:29:12 you firsthand their frustrations with the parking

18:29:16 situation, but what I would like to do quickly is address

18:29:19 the Florida building code's response to parking.














18:29:22 We talked last month when we had the presentation for

18:29:24 plant high school and expansion, we talked about the

18:29:26 Florida building code and how it applies to schools a

18:29:29 little differently than it applies to other buildings and

18:29:31 remember there are the requirements for educational

18:29:36 facilities, the SREF that sets out the requirements for

18:29:38 school construction and one of those requirements is a

18:29:39 parking requirement.

18:29:44 And the parking requirement requires one space per staff

18:29:47 member and one face per 100 students.

18:29:52 For Gorrie Elementary, that would mean 59 spaces will have

18:29:55 to meet the state building cold, the SREF.

18:29:57 However, there are only 52 spaces on-site.

18:30:01 A 17-space deficiency right now as far as meeting building

18:30:07 code.

18:30:12 I have included in a package of materials that Mr. Macy

18:30:15 passed out to you a comparison of other elementary schools

18:30:17 of similar size.

18:30:23 Gorrie has the lowest number of parking spaces as similar.

18:30:27 Even Charimonte with fewer students and few every staff.

18:30:30 So for purposes of the could he had and law, there is a

18:30:33 parking deficiency at Gorrie.

18:30:36 Keep in mind too, there are other parking needs for Gorrie

18:30:36 Elementary.

18:30:41 Not just the staff and not just the occasional visitor.














18:30:44 Right now they have nine student interns from the

18:30:46 University of Tampa with no place to park, no assigned

18:30:48 parking from them.

18:30:51 You have paint volunteers that come by the school and help

18:30:53 out, help to assist the teachers from time to time.

18:30:57 You also have special teachers that come to the school

18:30:59 from time to time too to work with individual children.

18:31:02 There is no place for those to park.

18:31:06 And they are not counted within the 64 spaces needed for

18:31:06 the staff.

18:31:11 And also you have the events that occur from time to time,

18:31:17 either music performances, sports programs, those kinds of

18:31:18 things.

18:31:20 And I think Mr. Garcia also mentioned wasn't sure if the

18:31:24 parking lot was intended to serve Wilson, it is.

18:31:28 Even though Wilson has a satellite lot, this lot would be

18:31:32 available to serve Wilson as needed and any overflow

18:31:35 parking, especially for events at Wilson, they will be

18:31:39 able to utilize this lot.

18:31:44 Abbye covered the site plan that there are 90 spaces in

18:31:46 the interim parking lot and the future school district

18:31:51 will be under the RM-24 subject substantial criteria.

18:31:53 I would like to address the waivers and Mr. Dingfelder

18:31:56 mentioned something that I think is important and I need

18:32:00 to set the -- I need to establish the record on that.














18:32:03 We did request two waivers.

18:32:06 One to waive the landscape buffer on the north from 10

18:32:08 feet to 3 feet.

18:32:12 There is an office Commercial use to the north there.

18:32:15 Their parking lot also backs up to the site.

18:32:18 So waiving the buffer from 10 feet to 3 feet we don't

18:32:20 think is significant.

18:32:22 And then I also need to make the point that the school

18:32:25 board, by state law, is not subject to landscape

18:32:26 standards.

18:32:29 So even though there is a condition on the site plan

18:32:32 requesting a waiver of the city's landscape code,

18:32:35 technically speaking, the school board is not subject to

18:32:37 landscape standards but we included it nonetheless.

18:32:40 The other waiver was the reduction of the drive aisle from

18:32:42 26 feet to 24 feet.

18:32:47 It is very routine for developers, individuals to request

18:32:51 that waiver, that reduction of the aisle width and it is

18:32:53 routinely granted, the last waiver.

18:32:58 The last waiver request to allow Commercial traffic

18:33:03 continue to DeLeon is something that is important to the

18:33:05 -- to the flow of traffic on this site, as well as

18:33:08 consistency with the adjacent uses in the surrounding

18:33:12 area.

18:33:13 Transportation objected.














18:33:14 They always object.

18:33:17 They have a standard objection and they never vary it.

18:33:20 If you are requesting access of Commercial traffic onto a

18:33:25 local road, they object and they will not budge from

18:33:26 objecting.

18:33:29 I explained to them that the current zoning, the PD, page

18:33:33 two of our site plan actually requests a waiver and has

18:33:36 access a driveway on to DeLeon and Council granted the

18:33:38 waiver in that instance.

18:33:40 I explained that and they said it didn't matter.

18:33:42 They weren't going to remove their objection.

18:33:44 I also explained that the previous development that

18:33:50 existed on this site and who was two driveways on DeLeon.

18:33:54 Commercial traffic on a local road.

18:33:58 They said nonetheless, they maintained their objection.

18:34:01 Lastly, and I want to show you a picture of this, this is

18:34:03 what Mr. Dingfelder mentioned.

18:34:08 The use across the street actually has three driveways on

18:34:13 DeLeon, and this an office use Commercial traffic, one,

18:34:19 two -- one, two, and then further down it three right

18:34:24 before you get to the stop sign.

18:34:28 One, two, three access points continue to DeLeon.

18:34:31 And even though I explained that, they said they are

18:34:31 sorry.

18:34:33 They are maintaining their objection to the waiver and it














18:34:38 would be up to Council to grant the waiver.

18:34:41 And what -- what we would argue to you is we are not

18:34:44 asking for a waiver that haven't been previously granted,

18:34:47 that isn't applicable to the site right now.

18:34:49 We are not changing the status quo of anything.

18:34:51 We are improving the status quo because we are removing

18:34:55 one of the driveways on DeLeon that previously existed for

18:34:56 this site.

18:34:59 Both the Planning Commission staff and the city staff have

18:35:02 recommended approval with the exception of the

18:35:04 Transportation objection.

18:35:07 And so likewise, we would request your approval of it.

18:35:12 And the one item -- last item I would like to address is

18:35:14 the community outreach we conducted.

18:35:17 As I mentioned, we converted this application from a

18:35:21 standard rezoning application of RM-24 to PD so that we

18:35:24 could meet with the neighborhood and the neighborhood

18:35:26 association and get their input.

18:35:28 We had a community meeting back in December.

18:35:30 There were very few people there.

18:35:33 We sent notices out beyond the notice area, letting them

18:35:35 know about that meeting.

18:35:38 We coordinated with the historic Hyde Park neighborhood

18:35:40 association about that meeting date as well, and there

18:35:43 were just a handful of people who came to that meeting.














18:35:46 There are some letters of no objection that I have

18:35:48 included in the package of materials.

18:35:51 Because we also sent out courtesy letters after the

18:35:57 meeting explain -- explain to people some of the details

18:35:59 of our proposal.

18:36:01 We have made numerous contacts with the neighborhood

18:36:03 association to try to get their input.

18:36:07 Back in September, they said they wanted a continuance

18:36:11 from the RM-24 hearing date so they could meet and discuss

18:36:12 their concerns with the school board.

18:36:15 Even though we tried to contact the historic Hyde Park

18:36:18 neighborhood association several times, the only feedback

18:36:23 we got was just this past week we got a response from them

18:36:25 that they are opposed to the parking lot and they would

18:36:27 like a continuance so they could discuss it further with

18:36:29 us.

18:36:31 We would submit to you that is the same motion they made

18:36:34 back in September and we have gotten no input from them,

18:36:38 although we tried and we see no purpose of continuing for

18:36:41 further discussion, the other neighborhood association,

18:36:47 Hyde Park -- Hyde Park preservation, inc. did give us a

18:36:49 list of requests and conditions and we tried to meet

18:36:50 those.

18:36:54 They had two requests that we did, in fact, incorporate

18:36:55 into our site plan.














18:36:56 The first was fence.

18:37:00 They asked for a fence along South Boulevard for it to be

18:37:03 a decorative metal fence similar to what exists on the

18:37:07 Gorrie site, and we agreed to do that and that is

18:37:09 incorporated into our site plan.

18:37:11 They asked for the lot to be paved with marked spots.

18:37:14 That is also incorporated into our site plan.

18:37:16 The last two items that they requested that we cannot

18:37:20 agree to is they wanted us to remove the access on to

18:37:21 South Boulevard.

18:37:23 And you heard Transportation division saying they don't

18:37:26 want us to have access on DeLeon and the neighborhood

18:37:29 association says they don't want us to have access to

18:37:30 South Boulevard.

18:37:33 With all due respect to both, we would request that we

18:37:35 have access to both.

18:37:39 We are willing to -- in fact we have incorporated a

18:37:41 mitigation done address this concern about South

18:37:41 Boulevard.

18:37:44 Their concern was you would be able to see the parking

18:37:46 along South Boulevard.

18:37:49 What we have incorporated into the site plan is a

18:37:54 landscape hedge that would block views of the cars.

18:37:58 Miss Suarez has made a traffic to show you what it would

18:38:02 look like once the hedges were grown.














18:38:04 The other thing they asked is that the future school

18:38:08 building comply with the Hyde Park design guidelines, and

18:38:11 this is also another item that we can not agree to.

18:38:15 This property is outside of the Hyde Park historic

18:38:16 district.

18:38:19 I included in the materials the map of the historic

18:38:22 district that is just outside district.

18:38:25 The district runs along DeLeon and South Boulevard and

18:38:27 then it is outside the district.

18:38:29 What we did agree to do, we incorporated another

18:38:33 mitigation condition to address their concern and it

18:38:36 states the future school building should be designed in a

18:38:39 manner consistent with or compatible with Gorrie

18:38:42 Elementary and Wilson middle school.

18:38:47 We will agree -- even though we are not in the historic

18:38:52 district we agreed to design it consistent to both of

18:38:55 those schools but had do not agree to be subject to the

18:38:56 Hyde Park design guidelines.

18:39:00 With that I will turn it over to Miss Suarez who will

18:39:03 quickly address the compatibility of these proposed uses

18:39:05 with the surrounding properties and she has several other

18:39:07 pictures she would like to share with you.

18:39:08 Thank you.

18:39:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Quick question before we go on.

18:39:17 Miss Grimes, I was looking at the site plan and Gorrie has














18:39:20 been pretty consistent in surrounding itself -- I know

18:39:23 whenever there has been an addition -- to surround itself

18:39:27 with the black metal wrought iron and I think that looks

18:39:30 really nice and consistent, but I am sort of surprised you

18:39:32 are only talking about facing -- doing that on the face of

18:39:36 Boulevard as opposed to Boulevard and DeLeon.

18:39:39 Has that been discussed and is that a big issue?

18:39:41 >> It has been discussed and before you make up your mind

18:39:43 on that, if --

18:39:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Never make up my mind prematurely.

18:39:50 >> And to show you how attractive it can be.

18:39:52 The Hyde Park -- I guess these two neighborhood

18:39:53 associations.

18:39:57 The Hyde Park neighborhood association actually wanted no

18:39:58 fence at all.

18:39:59 They didn't want a fence at all.

18:40:02 The other association in fact wanted a fence.

18:40:05 So we included just the fence along South Boulevard.

18:40:08 But actually the graphic she has to show you, you can see

18:40:13 that it is still very attractive with the fence along

18:40:16 South Boulevard.

18:40:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?

18:40:20 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.

18:40:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, I looked at the site plan

18:40:24 and I didn't see the fence.














18:40:25 Is it on there?

18:40:28 >> There is a note.

18:40:31 >> If you look down at the bottom --

18:40:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I didn't see it on there.

18:40:40 >> If you look right under where it says "South Boulevard"

18:40:46 proposed 4-foot-high black, metal, decorative fence.

18:40:49 Right where the word "South Boulevard" is.

18:40:51 Just kind of -- right --

18:40:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Gotcha.

18:41:02 >> We are trying to balance one association that wants no

18:41:04 fence and the other association that wants a fence.

18:41:09 So we came up with that hybrid.

18:41:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Which association is the property

18:41:12 actually in?

18:41:14 >> That is a good question also, because the historic Hyde

18:41:19 Park association web site -- their own web site show this

18:41:22 is not within their neighborhood jurisdiction, but then

18:41:28 the City of Tampa neighborhood map show that it is in the

18:41:30 historic Hyde Park neighborhood association.

18:41:34 So we felt like in fairness, we had to deal with both

18:41:37 associations,

18:41:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I would have thought it would have

18:41:41 been Hyde Park North.

18:41:45 >> We also worked with them.

18:41:47 >> They supported.














18:41:51 >> Not clear whether in or out of historic Hyde Park.

18:41:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Shannon's testimony, I guess.

18:41:57 >> Good evening, Council.

18:42:01 I am Lorraine Duffy-Suarez, the General Manager of Growth

18:42:06 Management and development for public schools.

18:42:09 I have a few facts I would like to share with you with the

18:42:10 district needs in here.

18:42:12 I think Miss Grimes have covered it very well.

18:42:17 We really are here to meet an existing and future need.

18:42:20 As you know there is a shortage -- I think Gina has gone

18:42:23 that through with you very well.

18:42:25 We want to look down the road for our future needs.

18:42:28 And the Florida Department of Education does projections

18:42:32 for school districts, for every school district going out

18:42:33 ten years.

18:42:37 And they have projected last year that our k-5 enrollment

18:42:41 in Hillsborough County schools will rise by 6,000 students

18:42:43 in the next five years.

18:42:47 If any of you are baby boomers and have grandchildren,

18:42:48 those would be the children.

18:42:49 They are already starting to come.

18:42:52 There was a surge in birth five years ago.

18:42:55 Kindergarten enrollment is anticipated to be growing over

18:42:57 the next several years.

18:43:03 We have a demographer try to disaggregate that growth for














18:43:03 us.

18:43:12 Will probably come in region 1 or area 1 which is our

18:43:14 South Tampa school area.

18:43:15 So that is just a short run.

18:43:18 We may be able to accommodate some of those in our

18:43:21 existing capacity in schools, but we realize looking down

18:43:22 the road, we have to be prepared.

18:43:25 We look at the ten-year projection from the Florida

18:43:27 Department of Education, in addition to the 6,000

18:43:33 students, they project another 10,000 students, the

18:43:36 elementary school students coming into Hillsborough County

18:43:38 schools by the year 2019.

18:43:39 We have to be planning ahead.

18:43:42 We have to be acquiring land.

18:43:45 Mr. Garcia spoke to you about the comprehensive plan and

18:43:48 this is an area to concentrate growth.

18:43:51 Back in 2006 though, the school board anticipated that we

18:43:53 might run into these issues.

18:43:55 Well, a lot of our school sites are landlocked especially

18:43:57 in the City of Tampa.

18:44:00 They authorized the facilities division to go out and

18:44:04 start acquire properties adjacent to our existing schools,

18:44:06 and we have been doing that.

18:44:11 In fact, we have secured sites -- and just a few I was

18:44:16 able to think of, Lomax, Mitchell and Edison where we have














18:44:20 purchased property adjacent for those schools for a future

18:44:20 need.

18:44:24 We can't say right now exactly how we are going to use it,

18:44:25 but we know that the opportunity to buy land that is

18:44:28 affordable in the right direction doesn't come along that

18:44:29 often.

18:44:33 Here we have an opportunity to put that land to serve the

18:44:36 needs for two schools.

18:44:39 Wilson needs it for overflow for events.

18:44:44 Gorrie needs it on a daily basis.

18:44:48 Mr. Chairman, may I have a couple of minutes to go through

18:44:48 a graphic or two.

18:44:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

18:44:51 Two minutes.

18:44:52 >> Two minutes should do it.

18:44:54 I am a quick talker.

18:45:04 This is a -- is there a zoom out?

18:45:11 Are you there for me.

18:45:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Got to work on your coloring miss

18:45:17 Duffy-Suarez.

18:45:18 >> Rudimentary drawing.

18:45:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Staying in the eyes.

18:45:23 >> The color code is for your convenience.

18:45:25 The green areas are office uses.

18:45:29 And the orange areas are parking facilities.














18:45:37 You can see this subject site has parking on about 50% on

18:45:41 our north boundary, approximately 100% of the South is

18:45:44 Edison street there, and then right behind Edison is the

18:45:47 parking for the apartments.

18:45:48 Right behind us.

18:45:52 And the group to the South and their parking facility that

18:45:55 they showed you with the three access points right here.

18:46:02 Our nearest neighbor on DeLeon is ourselves on Wilson and

18:46:08 -- [Inaudible]-- there are numerous areas along Boulevard

18:46:11 as you see as you head South.

18:46:13 The parking fronting right on Boulevard.

18:46:16 It is not uncommon to have parking fronting on Boulevard

18:46:19 in this area as you drive up and down.

18:46:25 The adjacent use, Wilson, multifamily and office.

18:46:30 The area is a mix of uses.

18:46:33 They are in the historic district but I understand just

18:46:37 two contributing structures, one of which is Gorrie right

18:46:42 in our immediate area.

18:46:46 The ALS -- right now if you drive down Boulevard, the most

18:46:50 dominant feature you see is Gorrie but pretty soon the ALS

18:46:52 will be the most dominant feature you see because it is

18:46:53 massive -- it is quite large.

18:46:55 I have been out there during the construction and seeing

18:46:57 it.

18:47:01 The visual compatibility is what is often faced in these














18:47:04 types of decisions and people often think is this the

18:47:04 same.

18:47:07 I can show you right there in that graphic that we are the

18:47:10 same for parking facilities that have many uses and our

18:47:12 future school facility will be the same as our school

18:47:13 facilities.

18:47:17 So I think compatibility doesn't mean the same but we are

18:47:18 very close to the same.

18:47:21 But often -- the true definition would be capable of exist

18:47:25 in harmony together, and I think we will be in harmony.

18:47:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

18:47:27 Thank you.

18:47:29 Thank you very much.

18:47:29 A public hearing.

18:47:33 Those who wish to address Council on this issue may begin

18:47:36 to line up and come forward at this time.

18:47:39 Anyone who wishes to address Council on this petition.

18:47:46 Keeping in mind as you come forward, again -- where is the

18:47:53 attorney.

18:47:57 As you come forward to speak on the issue, be mindful we

18:48:00 have been advised by our legal Council that we can not

18:48:02 deny this petition, but we can place reasonable

18:48:05 conditions, whatever that means because what might be

18:48:08 reasonable to you all might not be -- might nobody be

18:48:09 reasonable to them.














18:48:12 But that is a matter of interpretation but for the record

18:48:14 state that one more time.

18:48:14 >>JULIA COLE: That's correct.

18:48:18 As I indicated to you in previous petitions brought by the

18:48:20 school board in your role is different.

18:48:24 You have the authority to preach reasonable conditions

18:48:26 based on the request but you do not have the authority to

18:48:28 deny the petition.

18:48:28 Thank you.

18:48:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Come forward and state your name and

18:48:31 address for the record.

18:48:32 You have three minutes.

18:48:37 >> Hello, Gornia O'Rourke, and I live at South Dakota

18:48:39 avenue.

18:48:40 I am sworn in.

18:48:45 On I am a five-year resident of Hyde Park, a board member,

18:48:49 a mother of two Gorrie students and a Wilson student.

18:48:53 The current PTA President at Gorrie.

18:48:56 Like many people here, I am an active member of the

18:48:59 community and do that because I love living here and want

18:49:01 to maintain the quality and warmth and safety of our

18:49:02 neighborhood, and talking neighborhoods.

18:49:05 What would this be without our two brilliant schools that

18:49:06 predate us all.

18:49:10 They are an integral part of our local community, the very














18:49:12 reason many of us have chosen to live and invest into this

18:49:15 community and to attend them.

18:49:19 I feel I am very well versed to comment on our parking

18:49:21 debacle.

18:49:23 One of the many families that live on the outer boundary

18:49:27 where is bus something not available and alternative to

18:49:33 the car is practical and timely.

18:49:36 I use my car regularly and less than a quarter of the

18:49:38 students ride the bus.

18:49:42 Less than 400 children are transported by other means,

18:49:44 predominantly the car.

18:49:48 That's a lot of cars with wholly inadequate park and I can

18:49:50 testify to the level of stress this adds to our school

18:49:51 runs.

18:49:57 Normal days are congested, and on school event days we

18:49:58 experience gridlock.

18:50:00 I had to leave my car running numerous times to advise

18:50:03 other drivers how to progress out the situation.

18:50:06 This usually results in verbal onslaught from a person who

18:50:11 any other time day is sane and calm.

18:50:15 Even our principal receives the wrath of these drivers.

18:50:18 Our lack of parking not only causes unnecessary stress but

18:50:21 presents very dangerous situations where students are

18:50:25 dropped off in inappropriate places, between parked cars,

18:50:31 doors flung open mid-route, unauthorized u-turns and














18:50:33 excessive speed.

18:50:37 Younger students have to block blocks away for sleeping

18:50:43 babies and toddlers across busy roads and across parked

18:50:47 cars exacerbated by the weather and roadwork.

18:50:49 I want to point out we often experience lots of delays in

18:50:52 meetings, conferences and school nights and absences

18:50:56 because parents just can't be bothered with turning up and

18:51:00 facing the parking problems.

18:51:04 The opposers to this -- the sale of this land and the

18:51:07 parking lot will state we have ample parking

18:51:10 opportunities, but in local businesses, side streets and

18:51:12 even on Magnolia.

18:51:14 And I am thankful for all those businesses and their

18:51:18 generosity, but this is hardly screen them, and it is not

18:51:20 a long-term solution for us.

18:51:24 I, myself, would not feel so strongly about this if it was

18:51:28 just isolated to Gorrie, but when faced with the same

18:51:34 dilemma Wilson, when it becomes a car park, I feel it is

18:51:36 completely unreasonable to expect our biggest community

18:51:40 assets to have such inadequate parking when there is a

18:51:42 once in a lifetime opportunity to purchase open land for

18:51:45 the good of the most oldest and respected teaching

18:51:47 establish numbers our neighborhood.

18:51:50 And I would ask those who oppose who I assume have no

18:51:53 students at these schools or may be concerned that the














18:51:55 future expansion may lead to an influx of students from

18:51:59 other neighborhoods, that they consider a great

18:52:01 opportunity as well for generation of South Tampa.

18:52:06 And one last point, I would like to expect the parking --

18:52:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.

18:52:14 Next speaker.

18:52:15 >> Good evening, Council.

18:52:19 Lara Curlin.

18:52:23 I have a kindergartner at Gorrie and two other little ones

18:52:28 so I will be a Gorrie and or Wilson parent for the next 12

18:52:28 years.

18:52:30 This is an important issue for me.

18:52:33 The current parking situation as you already heard does

18:52:36 not even accommodate the faculty and the staff.

18:52:40 So where -- where is everybody else supposed to park?

18:52:42 And what is happening is that parents and visitors are

18:52:47 parking in private yards, in private parking lots, up

18:52:48 continue to curbs.

18:52:51 They are blocking access ways, they are blocking alley

18:52:54 ways, they are blocking other cars.

18:52:57 I know on Brevard which usually can handle two-way

18:53:01 traffic, cars are parked on both sides so difficult for

18:53:05 one door get through causing traffic jams every day.

18:53:08 Cars are parking up to stop signs which is a big problem

18:53:10 with visibility at intersections.














18:53:12 I think because of all the parking problems, parents are

18:53:14 dropping their children off in the middle of the street

18:53:17 and walking across the street as cars are zooming by.

18:53:20 And they are parking all around the neighborhood.

18:53:23 So a dozen cross points for kids where they are crossing

18:53:27 the streets instead of having one supervised, organized

18:53:28 crosswalks.

18:53:31 All of these problems can be alleviated and solved with a

18:53:34 parking lot, one central area where all of the parents and

18:53:37 visitors can park and safely walk across the street to the

18:53:39 school.

18:53:43 I talked to the principal of Gorrie and she said they are

18:53:45 averaging two new students a month this year.

18:53:48 This problem is only going to get worse and the best way

18:53:52 is to solve it now before it does is this parking lot.

18:53:54 Finally what a great opportunity for the school board to

18:53:57 find one vacant large lot adjacent to two of its schools

18:54:03 to benefit two of its schools to -- to solve an immediate

18:54:05 need and then have the ability to create a joint use

18:54:09 facility or an expansion for two of its schools.

18:54:11 The chances for one piece of property becoming available

18:54:15 in that area to benefit two schools is not high.

18:54:16 We appreciate your support.

18:54:16 Thank you.

18:54:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.














18:54:23 Next speaker, please.

18:54:24 >> Good evening.

18:54:25 My name is Jenny Warner.

18:54:28 I live at 834 South Dakota Avenue.

18:54:34 I am member of HHPI and a mother of two children at Gorrie

18:54:36 Elementary now.

18:54:37 We love Gorrie.

18:54:39 We moved to the neighborhood so my children could attend

18:54:43 it and our only concern is Gorrie's ability to

18:54:46 appropriately deal with its expanding population.

18:54:50 I also have a little one who will be at Gorrie next year,

18:54:53 and for that reason, like the previous speaker, I feel

18:54:55 that safety is the biggest issue that needs to be

18:54:56 addressed.

18:54:58 People are double parked.

18:55:00 People block visibility even for the crossing guard.

18:55:03 People drop their children off at inappropriate places,

18:55:05 and for this reason, we need to have more capacity to

18:55:05 park.

18:55:08 It is that simple.

18:55:10 It becomes worse on rainy days.

18:55:12 They have rainy day dismissals.

18:55:15 Parking becomes more congested.

18:55:18 I heard people say I am not going to attend this event

18:55:21 because I know I won't be able to find a parking spot and














18:55:22 that just seems crazy.

18:55:25 So, yes, it is inconvenience and, yes, it is stressful,

18:55:28 but I think we all have to consider that the safety of our

18:55:30 children is paramount to the system.

18:55:30 Thank you.

18:55:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.

18:55:35 Next speaker.

18:55:39 >> Hi, my name is Pat Ashby, and I am also a Hyde Park

18:55:41 resident, and I have three children.

18:55:44 A 5th grader who will be in Wilson next year.

18:55:49 I have a 3rd grader incoming kindergartner next year, and

18:55:52 I have been in charge of Gorrie fall carnival for the last

18:55:55 three years, and it is a family event where everybody gets

18:55:55 together.

18:56:00 They come after work, and there is games and bouncys and

18:56:03 it is just one thing that our kids love to come to every

18:56:04 year.

18:56:08 And we could get over 500 people coming to this one event.

18:56:10 And one of the biggest complaints I have heard is that

18:56:11 there is no parking.

18:56:16 And a lot of times what happens is Gorrie events will be

18:56:17 around the 6:00 time frame.

18:56:21 The husbands or wives coming from work, meeting the other

18:56:24 spouse at Gorrie with the kids to go to the event.

18:56:26 So now we have two cars per family.














18:56:30 So you could get up to, you know, 500 cars coming to that

18:56:31 one event.

18:56:34 And the fall carnival is just one event.

18:56:38 And we have got music programs, sporting events.

18:56:39 So -- sorry.

18:56:43 And I also volunteer at the school a lot during the day.

18:56:47 And I hear a lot from other parents that, oh, you know,

18:56:50 this is such a fine go and find parking so I am just not

18:56:53 going to volunteer or go on the field trips and what not.

18:56:56 So this will definitely help to alleviate a lot of the

18:57:00 parking problems, and I am for the district obtaining this

18:57:01 land for parking.

18:57:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

18:57:09 Next speaker.

18:57:14 >> Hi, I am the President of Gorrie Elementary.

18:57:17 I am also a safety patrol in 5th grade.

18:57:20 The job of safety patrol is to make sure all of the

18:57:23 students of Gorrie make to and from school safely.

18:57:29 Every day, I see kids in very dangerous situations.

18:57:31 Parents stopping the middle of the street to let their

18:57:34 kids hop out of the car and walk up to school.

18:57:37 I have seen near accidents where kids race across the

18:57:43 street to miss oncoming cars that do not see them.

18:57:45 Parents get so stressed out trying to find a place to park

18:57:49 that it takes their minds off -- minds off what is going














18:57:50 on around them.

18:57:54 They don't seat kids who cross between double-parked cars

18:57:57 or the kids who have to make it through the traffic

18:58:00 because their parent let them out of the car without

18:58:02 walking them to school.

18:58:04 I bet a lot of those parents would walk their kids to

18:58:06 school if they had a place to park.

18:58:09 I have heard my own parents comment on how horrible the

18:58:13 parking situation is are, and this it makes it so

18:58:17 inconvenient and dangerous to get my sister and me to

18:58:17 school and back.

18:58:20 I have been tardy to school a few times on mornings that

18:58:22 my mom is volunteering in class.

18:58:24 She just can't drop us off.

18:58:25 She has to find parking.

18:58:28 Sometimes we have to drive around the block three times to

18:58:29 find somewhere to park.

18:58:33 We have a parking problem at Gorrie, and the land across

18:58:36 the street will definitely help the kids to get to and

18:58:37 from school safely.

18:58:37 Thank you.

18:58:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.

18:58:42 >> Mr. Chairman, pretty exciting we got to hear from two

18:58:43 presidents today.

18:58:46 [Laughter]














18:58:47 [Applause]

18:58:52 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: From your district, John.

18:58:55 >> Councilmembers, Suzanne Leonard.

18:58:59 I am President of the Gorrie foundation -- so you have

18:59:00 three today.

18:59:01 You should feel very honor.

18:59:04 As President of the foundation and as a parent of Gorrie

18:59:09 Elementary students wanting.

18:59:12 I can attest to the parking situation at the school, the

18:59:13 difficulty of parents and volunteers.

18:59:17 Additionally as Council probably knows, Gorrie Elementary,

18:59:20 the foundation, raised money to support and purchase and

18:59:25 build a multimillion dollar facility at Gorrie Elementary.

18:59:27 Unfortunately with the parking situation, the event we

18:59:30 hold there, some parents are held back from attending, and

18:59:32 it affects our future fund raising.

18:59:35 One thing we have done and we have fund raised in the past

18:59:40 as you -- as Council has indicated that we have paid for

18:59:47 as Gorrie foundation several upgrades and certain things

18:59:51 like that that are in line in the Hyde Park district.

18:59:57 I have a rendering that one of our board members did.

19:00:00 Upside down.

19:00:03 You can see on the top corner they have the before picture

19:00:07 and this is my understanding but I state that briefly of

19:00:12 what the school district -- you see the fence there -- get














19:00:15 it nice in color.

19:00:17 You see the fence there and you see the bushes as well as

19:00:22 that the school district is willing to do.

19:00:25 Jack Myer, who is an architect and also a board member of

19:00:30 the foundation then did this rendering based on that, and

19:00:34 you can see Councilwoman had mentioned pillars, an

19:00:36 additional fence.

19:00:39 The foundation at this point cannot promise that.

19:00:43 A 21-member board and it would have to be voted on and

19:00:47 would have to be supported through funding are.

19:00:49 We have done things like this in the past and will do

19:00:51 things like this in the future to support this area which

19:00:54 will be very important for all parents at Gorrie

19:00:57 Elementary as well as Wilson Middle School.

19:00:59 I can also say I am a local business owner.

19:01:00 I am an attorney.

19:01:02 And I have my own law firm.

19:01:05 I looked at buildings near Gorrie Elementary to house my

19:01:09 firm, and decided not to do that because of the parking

19:01:11 issue and because I was told by business owners in the

19:01:14 area, if you buy this building, you will never be able to

19:01:15 park in your own parking space.

19:01:19 Additionally, I am an attorney with personal injuries.

19:01:22 I will just reiterate the fact that what our student

19:01:26 President said, which it seems there this is an accident














19:01:29 waiting to happen and we really need a designated parking

19:01:29 space.

19:01:30 Thank you.

19:01:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

19:01:37 Next speaker or speakers.

19:01:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Double teamed.

19:01:42 >> Good evening.

19:01:45 My name is Alexa Wall, and I live at 1801 Bayshore

19:01:49 Boulevard, Tampa, Florida, 33606.

19:01:49 >> I am Ava.

19:01:52 I live on Delaware street in Hyde Park.

19:01:57 I am in 3rd grade and my sister is a 6th grader at Wilson

19:01:58 Middle School.

19:02:03 >> I am a 3rd grade student at Gorrie Elementary.

19:02:06 My brother Danny is a 6th grade student at Wilson Middle

19:02:07 School.

19:02:09 I want to say thank you for this privilege of being able

19:02:12 to speak to the city leaders and members of community

19:02:17 about something that is important to me and 565 of my

19:02:20 friends at Gorrie and their parents.

19:02:25 I love my school, and I wanted it to improve year after

19:02:26 year.

19:02:30 Last year when I was in second grade, there are 529

19:02:32 students at my school.

19:02:35 This year there are 566.














19:02:38 I think that the number will continue to grow because

19:02:42 Gorrie is such a great school, and because my family --

19:02:45 and because families will not be able to continue to

19:02:47 afford private schools.

19:02:50 More students mean more cars.

19:02:52 I wish I had a picture to show you the neighborhood around

19:02:57 Gorrie that it looks like every morning and afternoon,

19:02:59 especially during school time.

19:03:03 Cars lining the street bumper to bumper for many blocks

19:03:04 around the neighborhood.

19:03:05 It's dangerous.

19:03:07 And I am sure that our neighbors get very angry because of

19:03:08 it.

19:03:14 Gorrie has -- Gorrie currently has a 52 parking lot.

19:03:17 The problem is we need a 59 spaces just for the teachers

19:03:18 and staff.

19:03:23 That does not include all volunteers and student interns

19:03:24 and staff.

19:03:29 Perhaps one day soon, we will even need space for more

19:03:31 classrooms because of all the new students.

19:03:34 I hope you will approve this petition tonight so that we

19:03:37 can have a safer neighborhood-friendly school.

19:03:39 Thank you.

19:03:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

19:03:39 [Applause]














19:03:47 Councilman Miranda.

19:03:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I believe I heard the President and

19:03:53 Vice President of the future hear speaking.

19:03:59 >> Almost went -- I am a principal.

19:04:01 I am the Principal of Wilson Middle School and I have been

19:04:02 for the last seven years.

19:04:07 I feel we are -- we are a very important member of South

19:04:09 Tampa and the community around.

19:04:11 And we strive to be a good neighbor.

19:04:15 I believe the parking lot will help us become a better

19:04:16 neighbor.

19:04:18 Instead of stressing everything that has already been

19:04:20 said, I will tell you, we have about 50 evening

19:04:22 activities.

19:04:24 Our largest being open house.

19:04:26 One of the beautiful things about Wilson Middle School is

19:04:28 the traditions.

19:04:31 Our open house, we have about 1100 people come, although

19:04:34 we only have 600 students.

19:04:35 640 students.

19:04:38 We have 1100 people because our students come, our new

19:04:41 students and their parents who attended Wilson and their

19:04:44 grandparents who attended Wilson.

19:04:46 And it is really a beautiful event.

19:04:48 So the parking lot will help me and my school with the














19:04:50 overflow of our night activities.

19:04:54 And that's why we are in favor of this addition.

19:04:55 Thank you.

19:04:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: State your name for the record please

19:04:58 again.

19:04:58 >> Stephanie Woodford

19:05:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much, Madam Principal.

19:05:07 >> Good evening, Christina Ramirez.

19:05:10 I live at 655 Rivera Drive.

19:05:12 I am currently not the President of anything but will be

19:05:16 the President of the PTSA at Wilson next year.

19:05:20 I don't have anything different or unique to say that

19:05:22 hasn't already been said other than to reiterate my

19:05:28 parental support of this use of this land for parking.

19:05:33 There is as a former board parent for several years and a

19:05:36 current Wilson parent, a substantial need for parking at

19:05:43 Gorrie on a daily basis and at Wilson for special events,

19:05:47 and the use of this parking -- this land for parking would

19:05:51 alleviate a problem that we experienced on a daily basis.

19:05:53 Thank you.

19:05:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

19:05:56 >> Thank you.

19:05:59 My name is Rochelle Reba.

19:06:01 I am a double stakeholder in the neighborhood.

19:06:05 My business is north of the lot at 405 Azeele.














19:06:10 My home is on Delaware in the Old Hyde Park residential

19:06:11 area.

19:06:15 I have a child who attended Gorrie and currently attends

19:06:19 Wilson, and I am here to oppose this petition.

19:06:25 Apparently I am alone, but I -- I strongly oppose it, but

19:06:27 I also want to point out that with respect to the Hyde

19:06:32 Park preservation, inc. comments that were related before.

19:06:35 The board of Hyde Park preservation, inc. of which I have

19:06:40 been a member for at least 10 years are all hard-working

19:06:42 people, and they have the best interest of the

19:06:46 neighborhood at heart, but on this particular issue, I do

19:06:49 believe that the membership has not been polled, and that

19:06:54 comments in favor of the parking lot do not represent all

19:06:54 the membership.

19:06:58 I will speak for myself in saying that because we are --

19:07:02 the lot is not in the district directly, formal notice was

19:07:08 not provided, and if there was a community meeting, it was

19:07:12 not noticed to me at either of my -- either my business or

19:07:13 at my home.

19:07:19 And so I am concerned that -- that the neighborhood

19:07:23 association position doesn't accurately represent the

19:07:25 feelings of the members of the neighbors.

19:07:26 So that's number one.

19:07:31 Number two, I -- I want to just point out that the most

19:07:34 consistent and very compelling argument that you heard in














19:07:38 favor of the parking lot is kind of appalling.

19:07:44 It's that the parents are such terrible drivers and so

19:07:49 aggressive in wanting to get to where they are going that

19:07:52 they have created a dangerous situation.

19:07:58 And I think that that's a very difficult argument to base

19:08:03 this particular decision on granting the school board the

19:08:04 rezoning for a parking lot.

19:08:07 First of all, the rezoning is aesthetically and

19:08:11 environmentally very short-sighted.

19:08:14 Aesthetically, this request is completely opposed to the

19:08:18 goals of neighborhood preservation on what is a major

19:08:21 north-South gateway into a historic neighborhood.

19:08:26 And frankly, I don't want South Boulevard which I drive

19:08:29 both ways every day or walk both ways and often ride a

19:08:31 bike both ways to be fronted by yet another parking lot so

19:08:35 it begins to look more like the parts of Nebraska Avenue

19:08:39 that this Council is trying to revitalize.

19:08:42 There is also a parking lot there across from Gorrie and

19:08:45 it is owned by the school board and it is unkempt and

19:08:46 hazardous.

19:08:49 Putting up what is termed to be an attractive wall or

19:08:51 fence is no solution.

19:08:54 It makes it worse frankly, because walling off another lot

19:08:57 which will remain empty almost every night I think is an

19:09:01 invitation to attract crime behind the wall and behind of














19:09:02 hedges to our neighborhoods.

19:09:05 Also I am convinced that creating another parking lot for

19:09:09 the school is short-sighted and unsustainable and it

19:09:13 addresses something that really shouldn't be a problem

19:09:16 because we pay to have school buses run to Davis Island

19:09:22 and Harbour Island, and majority of parents as a Gorrie

19:09:28 parents that I saw were parents from Davis Island and

19:09:32 Harbour Island who don't want their kids riding the bus.

19:09:34 I think it is just not addressed.

19:09:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

19:09:42 Next speaker.

19:09:44 Yes, come on, ma'am, yes.

19:09:47 >> My name is Agnes Stanfield.

19:09:54 I live at 212 West Feagle.

19:09:56 Founding member of the Hyde Park Neighborhood Association

19:10:01 in 1996 and the first problem we ran into were bylaws that

19:10:04 were horrendous and we rejected them.

19:10:08 And our bylaws from the founding members 1996 made it

19:10:11 clear we had to do things -- the board had to do things

19:10:15 the way all over the United States and all over Tampa is

19:10:16 what we just said.

19:10:20 In late summer and early fall, I attended a land use

19:10:23 meeting and it turned out -- I didn't know what they were

19:10:27 talking about at first, but apparently the board had some

19:10:29 meetings with the school board and school principals and














19:10:32 stuff and were totally opposed to this project.

19:10:36 And apparently further, they were representing themselves

19:10:39 as representing the neighbors.

19:10:44 And so I contacted the school because I am a Gorrie-Wilson

19:10:48 person, and I think we need the schools, and I trusted

19:10:49 school board.

19:10:51 If we need parking, then we need it.

19:10:55 If we need new buildings, we need it.

19:11:00 The -- so I contacted the school.

19:11:02 And said I would like to know more about this thing I am

19:11:04 supposed to be opposed to.

19:11:06 And we had some conversations and meetings.

19:11:11 I went to a Gorrie PTA meeting and most of parents were

19:11:18 Davis island and HPPI and they are well administered,

19:11:21 intelligently run organizations and I sit up and explain.

19:11:23 Hyde Park, I am a member.

19:11:25 I know nothing about this.

19:11:28 And the parents were jumping up and down going this is

19:11:28 wrong.

19:11:29 This is wrong.

19:11:33 No neighborhood association board is allowed to represent

19:11:39 themselves as representing the members of the association

19:11:43 of the subject like schools, anybody who lives in these

19:11:45 neighborhoods regardless of whether they belong.

19:11:48 And so I am going to give you something I am legally














19:11:51 allowed to give you.

19:11:57 Jack Wyatt was responding to Lorraine Duffy-Suarez, and

19:12:03 what he promises in this is -- he is going to let the

19:12:03 neighborhood --

19:12:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, ma'am.

19:12:17 You have to -- anyway, he promised in a number of ways he

19:12:20 would promise that people in historic Hyde Park would know

19:12:24 about it and I guess he was overambitious because Jack

19:12:26 would never lie to the school board.

19:12:30 So I do want to you know there has been very little notice

19:12:33 and we don't really know how the people in our

19:12:36 neighborhood feel and there are people who obviously don't

19:12:39 want it, but Wilson is such a wonderful school, and we,

19:12:44 the voters of Florida -- can't blame anybody else, we the

19:12:48 voters of Florida voted that the public schools of Florida

19:12:52 have to have restricted class size.

19:12:53 This is state law and we did it.

19:12:55 And I think we forgot about it.

19:12:59 And the newspapers kept talking -- we don't need schools

19:13:00 because people are leaving Florida.

19:13:03 Well, thank God they are leaving, but --

19:13:03 [ Laughter ]

19:13:09 -- because that -- that limit -- Wilson is one of the

19:13:13 schools -- that is not changed the deadline which is

19:13:14 August of this year.














19:13:18 And Wilson will be not in legal compliance.

19:13:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

19:13:20 >> Thank you.

19:13:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.

19:13:26 Next speaker.

19:13:27 >> Linda.

19:13:30 I live at 930 South Dakota avenue.

19:13:34 I am -- I do live in Hyde Park, old Hyde Park.

19:13:36 I am in favor of using this piece of property for our

19:13:37 parking.

19:13:39 I actually have a petition.

19:13:42 If I and this up with 105 signatures of neighbors,

19:13:46 business owners that are -- that are in favor of this

19:13:49 rezoning and this parking lot because of the safety for

19:13:53 our children and just -- it is just horrible that we only

19:14:02 basically have three parking spots -- and you heard it all

19:14:07 from everyone here tonight, but I want to tell you I am

19:14:09 definitely in favor of rezoning for the safety of our

19:14:10 children.

19:14:11 Thank you.

19:14:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.

19:14:15 Next speaker.

19:14:17 >> Hello, I am Monica Culpepper.

19:14:22 I live on Davis island.

19:14:24 I am here in support of rezoning the school.














19:14:28 I have been in public school at Gorrie and Wilson for the

19:14:32 last seven years, and the blue ribbon National schools.

19:14:34 And all the things that you are hearing this evening are

19:14:36 what's going on in front of the school.

19:14:41 But what's going on behind the school is even more --

19:14:44 provides even more safety concerns than the front.

19:14:50 Right now with the construction of the multilevel horizon

19:14:54 bay assisted living facility, you now have the only area

19:14:58 that Gorrie families used to go and park and will Swanson

19:15:00 park now chain-linked off.

19:15:03 You have a multi high-rise being built.

19:15:09 You have 50 new workers that come into 100 sometimes each

19:15:12 day that are not familiar with the area, not familiar with

19:15:15 the traffic size, not familiar with the traffic flow.

19:15:18 This morning we had two boom cranes going at once.

19:15:23 We have a 25-foot flat-bed truck delivering headers.

19:15:27 There were 20 spaces on -- Horatio is behind Gorrie

19:15:29 Elementary.

19:15:31 You have two buses dropping off kids.

19:15:35 You have 20 spaces on the west side Friday morning music

19:15:39 that is being occupied by workers at the site.

19:15:42 You have ten spaces on the right side, on the east side

19:15:46 Friday morning music which is also being occupied by

19:15:46 workers.

19:15:49 This morning, there were eight different crosswalks and














19:15:54 parents and people maneuvering around a boom crane, a

19:15:59 25-foot semi delivering headers, two buses.

19:16:03 And it is for the safety of our kids.

19:16:04 Please rezone this space.

19:16:08 As a Wilson parent, it is not unusual to go to a

19:16:10 basketball game for times during basketball season at

19:16:16 Wilson and have 250 families -- 250 people in the

19:16:20 gymnasium because you have Madison, Monroe, Coleman.

19:16:22 You have invited another school to play.

19:16:25 You start at 6:00 in the evenings with the girls games.

19:16:27 7:00 in the evenings with the boys games and you have 250

19:16:30 cars that have absolutely nowhere to park.

19:16:33 You have people driving around the neighborhood that

19:16:37 aren't paying attention to where they are driving.

19:16:38 They are just trying to find a space.

19:16:40 And they are visiting our school.

19:16:43 It is a wonderful opportunity to be able to purchase this

19:16:45 property and rezone.

19:16:46 We love our school.

19:16:50 Gorrie Elementary is the oldest operating elementary

19:16:50 school.

19:16:55 As a founding member of the capital campaign to build the

19:16:58 gymnasium, I can assure you that we will maintain the lot

19:17:02 with the adequate landscaping, fencing or whatever the

19:17:03 community needs.














19:17:06 The foundation can raise the money, and we will make sure

19:17:08 it is aesthetically pleasing to Hyde Park.

19:17:13 And let's just please keep our children safe, because as

19:17:17 of right now, it is an unsafe situation, and I would love

19:17:20 to see you guys have this opportunity to change it and

19:17:21 keep our future safe.

19:17:22 Thank you.

19:17:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

19:17:28 Next speaker.

19:17:30 >> My name is Don Wallace.

19:17:33 Thank you for the opportunity to ask you to support

19:17:36 something that I am strongly in favor of.

19:17:41 There is no doubt that we need more parking at Gorrie and

19:17:42 Wilson.

19:17:46 We have got a son who is in the 6th grade at Wilson, and

19:17:49 that little blonde-headed thing that was up here in the

19:17:52 3rd grade at Gorrie.

19:17:55 Let me warn you, you don't want to say no to her.

19:17:57 [Laughter]

19:18:00 I don't have to tell you how the schools are growing.

19:18:02 You've heard that tonight.

19:18:06 But in thinking about this, what I -- why are they growing

19:18:08 like they are?

19:18:11 Three reasons that I can think of.

19:18:12 One, they are great schools.














19:18:16 The parents are involved, and the parents care about the

19:18:18 kids in the neighborhood.

19:18:21 Number two, it's a beautiful place to live.

19:18:26 And you can give some of the different organizations that

19:18:30 you have heard talk about tonight full credit for that.

19:18:33 And number three, a lot of parents just cannot afford

19:18:36 private schools any longer.

19:18:38 That means we need more parking.

19:18:40 It is as simple as that.

19:18:42 And you have heard all the reasons.

19:18:50 It's true we have got to learn to drive better as one lady

19:18:52 said tonight, but that doesn't solve the problem about

19:18:53 where do you park.

19:18:56 And it's true we need to take great care of the

19:18:57 facilities.

19:19:01 I have seen the proof that the parents at Wilson and

19:19:04 Gorrie will do that.

19:19:07 About three years ago we decided we wanted to build a new

19:19:09 facility at Gorrie.

19:19:11 We call it a multipurpose facility.

19:19:16 The foundation raised over $2 million to pay for that

19:19:17 facility.

19:19:21 And then gave it to the school board.

19:19:25 We spent $400,000 on the building to make it compatible

19:19:27 with the neighborhood.














19:19:33 Now you can say, well, you had to do that, but that's not

19:19:34 true.

19:19:35 The parents gave the noun pay for that.

19:19:39 They didn't have to -- gave the money to pay for that.

19:19:42 They didn't have to give that money.

19:19:44 They did it because they care.

19:19:47 Finally sometimes we forget to take great care of the

19:19:51 surroundings like we have a parking lot we have got right

19:19:51 now.

19:19:53 But you will see that change.

19:19:55 You know sometimes your wife has got to tell you need a

19:19:59 haircut and some of the neighbors told us we needed to

19:20:04 take better care of that parking lot.

19:20:06 This is a hard decision.

19:20:09 You have really good people on both sides of it, but I

19:20:12 hope we can remember that it is not about who is right and

19:20:14 who is wrong.

19:20:17 There is not one group that is good, one group that is

19:20:17 bad.

19:20:22 We all care about our neighborhood.

19:20:25 It is just about is this the best use for that piece of

19:20:27 property.

19:20:29 s Tate right thing to do?

19:20:33 I think we all know the answer to that question, and we

19:20:34 appreciate your support.














19:20:35 Thank you.

19:20:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.

19:20:49 >> We have a speaker waiver form with four names.

19:20:50 Raise your hand.

19:20:57 Linda Wyatt, Anna Knight, Karim Plumber and Gerald Warren.

19:21:00 An extra four minutes for a total of seven.

19:21:00 >> Thank you.

19:21:01 My name is Jack Wyatt.

19:21:07 I live at 613 South Delaware avenue 23 years and I am also

19:21:09 another President of historic Hyde Park neighborhood

19:21:09 association.

19:21:13 It is a tough crowd out here, and I hate to be opposed to

19:21:16 this to and I hope for our association to be, but let me

19:21:18 read a motion and I also have some information that I need

19:21:23 to give to each of you.

19:21:37 How many -- this is a motion.

19:21:42 A new motion -- we passed this on 1/18/10.

19:21:49 Since the board opposed before the City Council of the

19:21:51 rezoning of this parcel at the Northwest corner of South

19:21:55 Boulevard at DeLeon we hereby request a continuance.

19:21:58 We never had given that position before, but we still

19:22:00 think there is some work to be done on this.

19:22:03 Now we have reasons why and I would like to read it.

19:22:05 The historic Hyde Park neighborhood association is intent

19:22:08 on maintaining the Hyde Park historic district.














19:22:11 The neighborhood has been listed under National register

19:22:15 of historic places because the Hyde Park historic district

19:22:19 is the geographically definable area of significant

19:22:22 concentration of buildings, structures, sites and objects

19:22:28 aesthetically defined by the physical development.

19:22:32 This district has maintained the scale and massing of an

19:22:35 early 20th century walkable community and enjoyed a

19:22:39 noteworthy rehabilitation over the past 35 years.

19:22:42 In order to maintain the character and defining features

19:22:45 of historic park, low-rise buildings, pedestrian-friendly

19:22:47 sidewalks and landscape public and private areas, the

19:22:50 historic Hyde Park neighborhood association rejects to the

19:22:53 rezoning of the Northwest corner of South Boulevard and

19:22:58 DeLeon for service parking for the following reasons: one,

19:23:02 a parking lot would not comport with the historic land use

19:23:03 patterns.

19:23:06 The only parking lots on South Boulevard avenue are

19:23:09 immediately adjacent to a user building, except for a

19:23:11 free-standing parking lot at the Northwest section --

19:23:14 intersection of South Boulevard and Horatio.

19:23:19 The existing parking lot does not meet the existing land

19:23:20 use patterns on South Boulevard.

19:23:25 The lot is not landscaped.

19:23:27 I have got some pictures here.

19:23:28 Hope this works.














19:23:37 Like that.

19:23:40 That is the cricket house that they move there.

19:23:43 This property, by the way, John, is in our neighborhood

19:23:46 association.

19:23:49 And so it is in our -- it is outside the district, but it

19:23:52 is in the National historic district, okay.

19:23:56 It is not -- just because it is out of the local -- you --

19:24:00 you should take more concern with that than within the

19:24:01 district.

19:24:04 This is also a picture of the lot before we had a

19:24:05 conversation with them.

19:24:10 And we threw these down in the next month or so -- they

19:24:12 took a backhoe.

19:24:12 It took trailers.

19:24:14 It took trucks to get this out.

19:24:16 This was years of neglect.

19:24:18 You couldn't get down the sidewalk.

19:24:23 That is our experience with the lot on a historic area on

19:24:25 Boulevard and Horatio at the corner.

19:24:29 I mean, just -- if you go by there now, it looks like a

19:24:33 park, but for years -- so that's our experience.

19:24:33 All right.

19:24:36 Let me continue here.

19:24:40 The proposed vacant lot is only a parcel located at the

19:24:42 intersection of South Boulevard and deLeon.














19:24:47 Not located in the Hyde Park historical district.

19:24:51 Located on each sides of the Boulevard buildings designed

19:24:54 as contributing buildings in the local historic building.

19:24:56 All land South and east of the subject property must

19:24:59 adhere to the Hyde Park guidelines which have been adopted

19:25:01 by the City Council.

19:25:05 The Hyde Park design guidelines state in parts one, no

19:25:08 more than minimum parking spaces would be approved.

19:25:11 Obscure parking from pedestrians' view.

19:25:13 Three, parking has the least amount of visibility from the

19:25:13 street.

19:25:16 And shared parking arrangements are encouraged.

19:25:20 According to the subject -- according to the subject

19:25:23 property reduce the school board's property tax income,

19:25:26 future tax income for subject property could -- for a part

19:25:28 of construction of a parking garage and other improvements

19:25:31 at the Gorrie-Wilson school site.

19:25:35 Ultimate Louis for expansion of Gorrie-Wilson middle

19:25:38 school should be explored in conjunction with long-range

19:25:41 planning of the school board and projections in five, ten

19:25:42 years, et cetera.

19:25:46 The Tampa and Central Florida will be embarking on a mass

19:25:47 transit project in the next few years.

19:25:51 Will this change the on-site parking for public

19:25:51 facilities.














19:25:55 And the spirit of the community support the historic Hyde

19:25:57 Park association would like to work with the applicant on

19:26:02 appropriate designs to identify alternate parking solution

19:26:04 for this section of historic Hyde Park.

19:26:09 Now I would like to -- in the next thing back there -- the

19:26:10 next thing.

19:26:12 If you flip it over, I actually did a survey of the

19:26:16 existing parking that the lot.

19:26:18 -- of the faculty lot.

19:26:25 The -- the results were that -- the results were -- and I

19:26:27 did it the day school started.

19:26:29 And I did it this month.

19:26:32 I did -- there was 28 visits.

19:26:34 323 vacancies.

19:26:39 An average of 12 spaces daily were vacant in that lot.

19:26:42 A 23% nonutilization of that lot every day that I

19:26:43 averaged.

19:26:45 They were not utilizing that lot completely.

19:26:53 I will run with my dog ever day to do it.

19:26:55 Two miles from my house by the way.

19:26:58 They have a contract with the music house, 15 spaces.

19:27:00 If you look on Friday, it doesn't change.

19:27:01 15 spaces there.

19:27:03 They tore a building down and by contract they had 15

19:27:05 spaces there.














19:27:08 You mentioned the closing of Brevard avenue.

19:27:11 Well, closing of Brevard avenue made this parking

19:27:12 available.

19:27:15 Another 15 spaces.

19:27:18 Assistant principal parking.

19:27:20 Using another 15 space there is.

19:27:23 And 7:00 in the morning next to a lawyer's office.

19:27:24 Nobody else is there.

19:27:26 They are taking all the spaces.

19:27:28 All right.

19:27:31 Just -- I on my own went and talked to the Hyde Park

19:27:32 Methodist church.

19:27:36 There is a lot, Magnolia and Horatio.

19:27:38 They said they would be glad to let the parents park

19:27:38 there.

19:27:40 There is plenty of parking for parents.

19:27:43 It is 100 steps from the campus without crossing the

19:27:44 street.

19:27:49 Now when they close this street for the -- for the -- the

19:27:51 big argument was, hey, we can't do that.

19:27:53 We have got to close the street, because we can't close

19:27:54 the street.

19:27:57 When they say they are going to build a school building,

19:28:00 remember, you expect walk kids across the street to go to

19:28:00 school.














19:28:02 It would have to be self-contained and with its own

19:28:05 playground, you have another parking problem.

19:28:07 So additional school and additional people and additional

19:28:10 kids in isn't a solution.

19:28:13 What this ends up being is a parent lot, okay.

19:28:14 This is for parents, okay.

19:28:16 And they admit it.

19:28:17 This is for parents.

19:28:19 Valdez admitted it in a meeting.

19:28:20 It is for parents.

19:28:24 Now a million five plus $10 per square foot of improvement

19:28:26 cost at 40,000 square feet.

19:28:28 That is a million nine.

19:28:31 That is $21,000 a space for parents to park.

19:28:35 Now I got a few more minutes, right.

19:28:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's it, seven minutes.

19:28:38 >> I am finished then.

19:28:41 Sorry.

19:28:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: You got a lot in there.

19:28:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have a question, Jack.

19:28:45 Mr. Chairman.

19:28:46 >> Yes, sir.

19:28:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I can see that you love Gorrie.

19:28:51 Tough on your shirt.

19:28:53 >> I am a Gorrie dad.














19:28:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We appreciate that.

19:28:58 Mr. Chairman pointed out with our legal staff at the

19:29:02 beginning of the public participation that, you know,

19:29:06 regardless of how -- what our conclusion is after all this

19:29:10 testimony, that we are legally constrained under the state

19:29:12 statute to approve this, but we can approve it with

19:29:14 modifications.

19:29:18 We can approve it with appropriate conditions, which is --

19:29:20 as Mr. Chairman said have yet to be defined.

19:29:22 I read through your comments.

19:29:26 We have listened to your comments.

19:29:29 It sounds like you are advocating denying this approval

19:29:32 which would get news court very fast if we were so

19:29:35 inclined to go that route, I am not saying we are, but

19:29:39 anyway, you know, you and I have worked together on many

19:29:40 issues in Hyde Park.

19:29:45 Are there any constructive compromises or solutions that

19:29:50 the organization has to offer to make this a better

19:29:52 parking lot?

19:29:52 >> Yes.

19:29:55 We think the existing parking lot, the existing faculty

19:29:59 lot could be in an urban area gone up with the same amount

19:30:02 of money be built up so you would have an urban building.

19:30:03 I am just --

19:30:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I am talking about the parcel that is














19:30:06 up for rezoning today.

19:30:09 505, 503 --

19:30:12 >> We would like that -- if they only need 15 spaces, why

19:30:16 are we making 90 and we could make the front part almost a

19:30:19 park and the back part adequate parking.

19:30:24 We don't think parents will park their car, walk across

19:30:26 the street and walk back to their car.

19:30:27 We don't think that is reasonable.

19:30:30 If you did half a park, you didn't need all that parking

19:30:33 at front and make it a park and make it look nice so we

19:30:36 can use it a little bit as opposed to not using three

19:30:38 quarters -- we are only using this facility three quarters

19:30:40 of the year and only part of the day.

19:30:43 So if it could be worked that the neighborhood got

19:30:45 something out of it and it didn't look totally like a

19:30:49 parking lot with -- they have stadium lights in the other

19:30:50 lots.

19:30:53 In fact the stadium lights are on at night at 10:00 in

19:30:55 this lot now.

19:30:57 So there are some things -- this is a half a city block

19:31:00 you are talking about with 17 spaces.

19:31:03 And -- I mean I am not saying 17 spaces.

19:31:04 I am saying let's make it reasonable.

19:31:08 You don't always have 50,000 people from this school.

19:31:11 I live two blocks away, there are no --














19:31:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Sir, I need to stop you.

19:31:16 You have seven minutes and you answered the question.

19:31:17 >> Thank you.

19:31:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.

19:31:21 Next speaker.

19:31:22 >> Good evening.

19:31:30 I am Chandra Henthorn, South Dakota Avenue, a 23-year

19:31:31 resident.

19:31:34 A child of Gorrie and now at Wilson.

19:31:36 I am here tonight whether this property is chosen for

19:31:41 parking or potential future classroom space, an

19:31:43 ice-skating rink, it doesn't really matter to me really

19:31:49 because I think societally we as Tampa residents over the

19:31:52 past 20-plus years, you as a Council, I as a member of

19:31:55 this community have promoted and have benefited from

19:31:56 increased density.

19:31:59 And as our decisions from that density, we now have

19:32:03 Harbour Island which is at full capacity I think.

19:32:06 I am surprised its not beginning to sink, you know.

19:32:09 Davis island is certainly still at capacity, and our South

19:32:12 Tampa community, we are continuing to build high-density

19:32:14 towers.

19:32:17 Every child in all of those areas have been fed into these

19:32:19 two fabulous schools.

19:32:22 These schools have accommodated this increased density.














19:32:25 They have performed beyond expectations, and I think just

19:32:29 as a review, Stephanie Woodford the principal of Wilson,

19:32:32 shared with me of the 250 schools in our beautiful

19:32:35 district, Wilson middle school is number 2 in being

19:32:37 overcrowded.

19:32:42 So as we have this nugget, this gold nugget, perfectly

19:32:46 positioned between Gorrie and Wilson, I think we owe it

19:32:47 back to our community.

19:32:49 We value benefited from the density.

19:32:52 Let's now help those two facilities minimize the burden

19:32:56 they have taken on so willfully by providing long-term

19:32:58 relief.

19:32:59 And little piece of land.

19:33:02 And I thank you for your kind consideration.

19:33:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.

19:33:14 >> I am Rose Perry Henderson and I live at 2001 Bayshore

19:33:14 Boulevard.

19:33:17 And I am here to speak simply for myself.

19:33:20 These are my own personal viewpoints.

19:33:23 I am past President of the historic Hyde Park neighborhood

19:33:27 association, and I am still serving on the board.

19:33:31 And although I did not agree with our board on this, I

19:33:33 have so much respect for the work that our board has put

19:33:38 in and the research and the very thorough, thorough job

19:33:40 they have done on this.














19:33:43 So I have a great deal of respect for everything that our

19:33:46 board did to come with this decision.

19:33:51 And I really understand a lot of the objections, and I

19:33:55 also don't like the way the parking lot looked -- has

19:34:00 looked recently or in the fall.

19:34:05 I would like to see a lot of other assurances, but the

19:34:10 bottom line, I am such a big supporter and fan of our

19:34:14 public schools.

19:34:17 I think our schools and our neighborhood and the value of

19:34:20 our property and more than anything else.

19:34:23 And I am the past President of the Wilson PTSA and the

19:34:29 plant PTSA, and I just -- I could not find it to myself to

19:34:31 oppose this.

19:34:34 I -- I just want to see a way to make it work.

19:34:39 It may not be too late to still come up with some other

19:34:44 conditions or whatever, but I -- I personally would like

19:34:49 to see a lot more landscaping on the front half of the

19:34:49 lot.

19:34:53 I don't think the whole lot has to be a parking lot.

19:34:55 It we can do the front third, a grassy area with low

19:35:00 landscaping or whatever.

19:35:03 I feel for the neighbors right there who have concern

19:35:04 about the stadium lighting.

19:35:07 Maybe there would be a way to address that and come up

19:35:08 with some kind of solution on that.














19:35:14 I also would really like to see a way to comply with the

19:35:15 Hyde Park design guidelines.

19:35:19 And that's what our board's purpose is, is to ensure the

19:35:22 integrity of the neighborhood.

19:35:26 So anything we can do to give us some assurance that any

19:35:28 future building will do that.

19:35:32 And I appreciate you saying that it will be consistent and

19:35:33 compatible with both the schools.

19:35:38 But really need to emphasize that.

19:35:42 Those were the major concerns to me.

19:35:43 The idea of the fence, I think it sounds nice.

19:35:48 That sounds like there is some debate on that.

19:35:53 But again, these are my personal viewpoints, and I just

19:35:57 feel strongly any way I can I would like to support our

19:35:58 neighborhood schools.

19:35:59 Thank you.

19:36:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.

19:36:04 Okay.

19:36:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do you have a question?

19:36:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question for staff.

19:36:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.

19:36:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question for staff.

19:36:16 Since this is a PD and since maintenance of the parking

19:36:19 areas is a concern of the neighborhood, could we build

19:36:28 into the PD some commitment from maintenance?














19:36:30 >> Abbye Feeley, Land Development Coordination.

19:36:31 I will speak that our code requires general maintenance

19:36:35 under chapter 5 and chapter 19 of properties regardless

19:36:38 whether or not you put conditions on this PD.

19:36:41 If you see a property that is in disarray, be it this

19:36:43 property or another property in the city, to that property

19:36:45 owner is required a level of maintenance.

19:36:49 So that being out there, I would defer to Miss Cole as to

19:36:53 the enforcement of a condition on a PD related to

19:36:53 maintenance.

19:36:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Well, we have heard clearly from the

19:36:59 neighborhood it is a concern based on experiences they

19:37:01 have had with the lack of maintenance.

19:37:05 And so if that's one of the concerns, I wonder if we can't

19:37:05 build it in.

19:37:08 >>ABBYE FEELEY: My response to that is if you put a

19:37:11 condition on there that is really not enforceable, I would

19:37:13 hope to lead you down the road to feel that a note like

19:37:16 that would be enforceable and not have it be legally

19:37:17 enforceable.

19:37:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me call it to Council's attention

19:37:21 that the school board did not previously own this

19:37:22 property.

19:37:24 So we need to keep that in mind.

19:37:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: They were talking about the lot that














19:37:27 they do own to the north.

19:37:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, they have to speak to that.

19:37:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: While Julia is coming up.

19:37:37 The other thing I have as the neighborhood mentioned, they

19:37:41 would like to see an additional setback which would be

19:37:45 like a minor site plan change because perhaps they give up

19:37:48 the spaces fronting on north Boulevard and push that back

19:37:50 and have a little more grass or something like that.

19:37:53 Can we do that -- is that something that can be done

19:37:56 between first and second reading?

19:37:58 >>JULIA COLE: I would -- that sounds like something that

19:38:01 would be part of our minor site plan review.

19:38:05 A revision that could be done between first and second

19:38:05 reading.

19:38:08 I would want to ask the school board relating to what

19:38:10 their feelings are on it.

19:38:13 I will tell thought ability to place reasonable conditions

19:38:15 is based upon what is being requested.

19:38:19 The only caveat statutorily to the definition of

19:38:21 reasonable conditions, they can't be something that are in

19:38:27 violation of the -- the board building codes.

19:38:29 >> Sure, sure, but of course they believe in maintenance.

19:38:31 >>JULIA COLE: The maintenance issue is a different

19:38:34 question and I don't know if that is so much related to

19:38:37 the school board question or just a general matter.














19:38:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The other question is the -- I looked

19:38:44 at the map of the Hyde Park overlay -- you know

19:38:47 architectural review guidelines and it is completely

19:38:49 squirrely.

19:38:51 Completely gerrymandered.

19:38:54 Here is Gorrie and I was involved when we wrote the plan

19:38:58 and a squiggly line that runs around Gorrie.

19:39:00 I don't know why it is not included in the local oversight

19:39:02 because it is in the National district.

19:39:06 My question is because the brick piers are part of the

19:39:10 overall design of Gorrie.

19:39:14 Can we have the school board go in and put brick piers

19:39:17 before first and second reading.

19:39:19 >>JULIA COLE: Let me go through those.

19:39:22 Let me start with maintenance.

19:39:24 The maintenance issue because that is really the bigger

19:39:25 question.

19:39:29 There are general standards in our code for maintenance.

19:39:32 If you were to say in any PD, put a condition in to say

19:39:36 that you will maintain, there will be no difference in a

19:39:40 code enforcement process versus a chapter 5 or chapter 19

19:39:44 violation versus a chapter 27 violation.

19:39:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Would be on notice that is the concern

19:39:49 of the neighborhood and it is in your PD.

19:39:51 >>JULIA COLE: Within you put in your PD, that has to be














19:39:53 something enforceable.

19:39:55 That is beyond just notice.

19:39:58 If we violate that we need a standard upon which -- not

19:40:01 just in violation of chapter 19.

19:40:05 In any PD, the school board that has standards in it.

19:40:09 You have vials of your PD and actual zoning violation on

19:40:10 your property.

19:40:13 You are required to maintain isn't enough to give you

19:40:15 something that I have a code enforcement officer that they

19:40:17 can go out and enforce against.

19:40:20 I cannot aware that we ever put that type of condition to

19:40:21 an PD.

19:40:24 I thing it would be difficult to enforce, and I am not

19:40:28 sure I would ever recommend that you put that type of

19:40:31 condition on the PD that says you are required to maintain

19:40:32 unless --

19:40:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: You are saying no.

19:40:35 >>JULIA COLE: I am saying no.

19:40:36 But I am saying no generally.

19:40:39 I don't want that to be seen as I am just saying it for

19:40:42 this property, because I think that's a question that goes

19:40:44 beyond just a reasonable condition.

19:40:46 That is a question of being -- I don't know that I would

19:40:49 have a different opinion no matter what PD you are talking

19:40:50 about.














19:40:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Maybe we can hear from the school

19:40:52 board --

19:40:54 >>JULIA COLE: But to answer your question about being in

19:40:58 a historic district and requirements to maybe comply with

19:40:59 guidelines.

19:41:02 They are not in the district and I have -- Miss Feeley and

19:41:05 I both have conversations with Mr. Fernandez as to why.

19:41:09 I mean, he -- he just said that when they were going

19:41:12 through this process, properties were placed in,

19:41:13 properties were placed out.

19:41:16 He would have to go and really do research to find that

19:41:19 out and frankly, whether or not we can figure out why a

19:41:21 certain property was in or a certain property was out

19:41:24 would be probably pretty difficult to do.

19:41:26 As it relates to a condition on the site plan relating to

19:41:29 either complying with -- you know one of the guidelines or

19:41:33 a specific construction standard for materials, et cetera,

19:41:37 I would actually want to hear from them, because I don't

19:41:39 know what is required under their building code as it

19:41:42 relates to construction materials, et cetera.

19:41:46 So in terms of making that a condition, I think they need

19:41:49 to opine if you are going to have piers, et cetera,

19:41:51 whether or not that is something that either budgetary,

19:41:55 what they can do, or within the confines of what is

19:41:57 provided for on their building -- in their building code.














19:41:59 I just simply cannot answer.

19:42:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Seems to me that what we need to do is

19:42:04 have a time out.

19:42:07 I think the sense of the community is that this -- this

19:42:11 property is probably necessary to purchase, but some

19:42:15 design tweaking needs to happen.

19:42:17 >>JULIA COLE: If you are suggesting this should be

19:42:19 continued, I think that is really for the school board to

19:42:21 opine whether or not --

19:42:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can we approve this on first reading

19:42:26 with the understanding there will be changes on the site

19:42:27 man for first and second reading.

19:42:30 >>JULIA COLE: No, when you make a change between first

19:42:34 and second reading it needs to be delineated in first

19:42:38 reading because to move forward on second reading, they

19:42:40 need to make a motion --

19:42:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Couldn't we say specific things like

19:42:45 we approve this with the understanding there will be brick

19:42:48 piers, not have stadium lighting and the school board will

19:42:51 maintain it, but not only this but other --

19:42:53 >>JULIA COLE: Again, I think the maintenance is probably

19:42:56 not an appropriate condition, but anything terms of the

19:43:00 pier, I would want to hear that is something they are

19:43:01 willing to do.

19:43:03 We can have a general condition and come back at second














19:43:05 reading showing they are doing that, but I think we need

19:43:06 to hear from the school board.

19:43:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And that's -- my suggestion is that we

19:43:13 kind of just hear from Miss Grimes who represent the

19:43:13 school board.

19:43:18 I know you have five minutes of rebuttal.

19:43:22 So maybe you want to spend some time addressing the issue.

19:43:24 >> I will do my best.

19:43:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

19:43:29 >> Let me start with the maintenance issue, miss

19:43:30 Saul-Sena.

19:43:32 There have been instances -- the school board owns a lot

19:43:34 of property and instances in the past where there have

19:43:36 been maintenance issues and the school board was actually

19:43:40 cited and notice was provided to the downtown

19:43:44 administration and those matters were taken care of right

19:43:44 away.

19:43:48 I know myself because I represented them on a matter.

19:43:51 It was corrected, the maintenance violation was corrected

19:43:55 so quickly it never made it to the code enforce.

19:43:58 The zoning master process.

19:44:02 The Horatio parking lot, was in fact an oversight.

19:44:05 This is now on Miss Valdez's radar screen.

19:44:07 It will not happen again.

19:44:10 Also some issues with -- with some sort of wetland area on














19:44:12 that site too as well.

19:44:15 As you can see it is being well maintained and will be

19:44:21 continued to maintain that lot in accordance with the

19:44:26 standards that everybody else is held to.

19:44:29 Let me go back and say generally a lot of the objectors

19:44:30 are focusing on the parking lot.

19:44:33 Remember the parking lot is an interim use.

19:44:35 The site is being purchased to also serve as the site for

19:44:37 future school building.

19:44:41 So it is not just going to be just a stand-alone parking

19:44:43 lot for all that long.

19:44:46 It is being slated -- bought for two purposes president of

19:44:51 present needs of Gorrie and the future needs of Gorrie.

19:44:55 They are focusing on their objection to the parking and is

19:44:56 shortsighted.

19:44:58 Long term, we are talking about purchasing a piece of

19:45:02 property at a reasonable price in close proximity to two

19:45:08 schools for a future school building.

19:45:12 As far as the stadium light something concerned, remember

19:45:15 we are also subject to the SREF.

19:45:17 The state building code.

19:45:20 The state building code has lighting standards for

19:45:20 schools.

19:45:24 We can't just agree to some sort of aesthetic lighting.

19:45:26 We have to comply with the state building code requirement














19:45:27 for lighting on school.

19:45:30 They have a whole section in their code, in the state

19:45:34 building code dealing, with school lighting.

19:45:37 We can ensure that the lighting will be directed away from

19:45:39 any residential areas that you require of other

19:45:41 developments, but we have to comply with the SREF

19:45:42 lighting.

19:45:45 And we also have -- the school board has a policy, a

19:45:48 lights out policy, where all school lighting goes out

19:45:51 after a certain hour of every single night.

19:45:53 So I don't think it will be an issue for stadium lighting

19:45:58 at night.

19:46:02 Mr. White said that he -- he thought that the parking lot

19:46:05 was consistent with several policies that I am not sure he

19:46:08 was reading from the design guidelines or where.

19:46:10 But keep in mind that the hedge that we are talking about

19:46:14 installing will screen the visibility of the cars from

19:46:16 South Boulevard and from DeLeon.

19:46:20 A hedge will go all the way around all four sides of that

19:46:24 site.

19:46:27 He mentioned the alternative parking arrangements and that

19:46:30 was a good idea to postpone this -- this hearing so those

19:46:33 kinds of discussions could take place, the Hyde Park

19:46:38 Methodist may be willing to work with the school district

19:46:42 on parking, but we are buying this site, remember, long














19:46:45 term for a future school building site.

19:46:49 So the Hyde Park Methodist option or alternative is a

19:46:55 short-term solution to a long-term problem.

19:46:58 He also mentioned that we need to make it so the

19:47:00 neighborhood is getting something out of this.

19:47:04 I am not exactly sure why he feels that way.

19:47:06 Because the neighborhood is enhanced by Gorrie Elementary

19:47:08 and Wilson.

19:47:11 That neighborhood is developed the way it has because

19:47:15 people specifically move into this area to attend our

19:47:15 schools.

19:47:17 That's why you have seen -- you have seen the

19:47:20 redevelopment of Hyde Park in the way that you have.

19:47:23 But what the neighborhood is getting out of this and the

19:47:26 neighborhoods consistent of not just the neighborhood

19:47:30 associations but it consists of the people who actually

19:47:32 live in the community and what they are get something

19:47:35 enhanced safety, not just for the -- for the Gorrie

19:47:39 students but all the people who live around the Gorrie

19:47:40 site.

19:47:43 And they also -- the other thing they are getting out of

19:47:46 this is they are being -- they are addressing the needs of

19:47:49 the future of Gorrie Elementary so it can remain the fine

19:47:50 school that it is.

19:47:52 So we think the neighborhood is in fact getting something














19:47:57 out of it.

19:48:00 I think one of your last questions was about the piers,

19:48:04 the school district does not fund those kind of aesthetic

19:48:05 improvements.

19:48:05 It never has.

19:48:09 You might remember that the piers and the fence at plant

19:48:09 high school.

19:48:12 That all done through private funding.

19:48:14 They are stewards of taxpayers money.

19:48:18 They can't spend money, taxpayers money for aesthetic

19:48:21 improvements at request of the neighborhood association.

19:48:24 What they can do is they will be happy to work with the

19:48:28 foundation, if the foundation wants to do private fund

19:48:30 raising to install that just like they did for the

19:48:34 multipurpose facility on the Gorrie site.

19:48:38 They would, in fact, allow those kind of enhancements, but

19:48:40 would not agree to a condition that would require them to

19:48:48 install those piers.

19:48:52 And lastly on the historic district, you have a copy of

19:48:56 the map that I provided Miss Saul-Sena in the booklet.

19:48:59 And the one thing I noticed it because I thought to myself

19:49:00 the same question.

19:49:02 Why is the line drawn this way.

19:49:04 And I think the reason why is if you look at the

19:49:09 contributing structures, north of DeLeon and west of South














19:49:15 Boulevard, you see very few as oppose to all the areas

19:49:17 within the historic district have a substantial number of

19:49:20 contributing structures and I believe that is in fact why

19:49:22 the line was drawn in the location that it was.

19:49:26 The school is in this historic district.

19:49:30 The parking lot and future school site is not.

19:49:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

19:49:36 Mr. Miranda and then Councilman Dingfelder.

19:49:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

19:49:40 When you look at the good people here today, that's why

19:49:43 you have good students, for or against.

19:49:45 But the students do their homework first.

19:49:48 When you see -- look at Gorrie and you look at Mitchell

19:49:53 and you look at Dale Mabry, they have one thing in common.

19:49:54 They are surrounded.

19:49:56 And you have very little parking.

19:49:59 When you look at Dale Mabry especially, that is the one I

19:50:04 am the most familiar with because I have had six

19:50:06 granddaughters go through there.

19:50:08 I think I am telling my age now.

19:50:11 You see parking up to the sidewalk, all the way around.

19:50:14 But there is a lot of land, and then when you look at the

19:50:17 land, there is a track-and-field which they should have

19:50:22 and on the other side there is the -- Tampa Bay little

19:50:22 league.














19:50:27 So that whole quadrant is full of activity day and night,

19:50:30 just like it is in Gorrie, just likes in Mitchell.

19:50:35 It is very difficult to modernize yourself if you were not

19:50:37 willing to look forward.

19:50:43 It is very, very difficult to do that.

19:50:45 When the young lady mentioned basketball, I can tell you

19:50:49 four out of five years Coleman beat Wilson.

19:50:51 But last year Wilson beat Coleman and one of my

19:50:53 granddaughters is not happy.

19:50:56 She will be the center there next year so watch her.

19:51:00 So it's -- it's a challenging thing, and those games, you

19:51:02 have a lot of participation.

19:51:10 You have a lot of rivalry, not in the sense of dislike,

19:51:12 but in the sense of pride to win and both of them end up

19:51:14 at the same high school, plant.

19:51:17 I am cheering for all them schools and went to Jefferson.

19:51:20 So there is a battle going on where I am at now currently

19:51:22 living with my grandchildren.

19:51:25 And there are two things I got to do before they can play

19:51:29 sports, they got to beat me at basketball and they do that

19:51:33 at age 4, and they have to make very good grades.

19:51:37 And much better than what I had done when I was in high

19:51:37 school.

19:51:42 I am proud to say that Gorrie need a continuation process

19:51:48 forward, a process that has in my opinion very little














19:51:52 negativity, although there has been some brought up and

19:51:56 maybe some can be worked out, but at 6:20 today, an hour

19:52:01 and 35 minutes ago, our attorney told us, it can not be

19:52:01 denied.

19:52:03 It can be moved around.

19:52:05 It can be circled.

19:52:08 It can be -- you talk about ingress and outgress.

19:52:11 You are talking about the North Boulevard, DeLeon.

19:52:15 What we forget to mention is the alleys.

19:52:24 The alley just 50, 100 feet, 150 feet north of north

19:52:27 Boulevard what's there all the way from the village of

19:52:32 Hyde Park, living and with residences.

19:52:34 Doctors a offices and lawyer offices and from north

19:52:38 Boulevard on down, they park in the alleys.

19:52:41 The alleys where a lot of the businesses do their parking.

19:52:44 So that tells you that you have a parking problem.

19:52:47 Because they are not parking in the street, only the

19:52:56 customers the attorneys, the doctors, they have very small

19:52:57 spaces.

19:53:00 It is a quaint village and very beautiful place to live.

19:53:05 Mr. Chairman, I don't see any reason for the -- we haven't

19:53:07 closed yet I know.

19:53:10 But I am going to tell you that I am going to support this

19:53:12 for the reason I stated above.

19:53:15 Gorrie needs to look forward.














19:53:18 Those people who left, evidently they are coming back.

19:53:21 Because they had a terrible winter up north, and those

19:53:25 people who think their taxes were high here when they got

19:53:28 where they were going, they said, oh, my God, we made a

19:53:28 mistake.

19:53:31 And the reason they come back is because we have two

19:53:35 seasons here in this area, summer and Christmas, and they

19:53:35 love that.

19:53:39 And they love to live here in a city that has a lot more

19:53:43 to offer than a lot of other good places, arts,

19:53:46 recreation, sports.

19:53:49 You can do about anything you want to do in the City of

19:53:54 Tampa now where 50 years ago it was not considered.

19:53:58 So it is incumbent upon all of us here to get along.

19:54:00 This is a neighborhood that is not split.

19:54:03 This is a neighborhood that just has a difference of

19:54:04 opinion on one matter.

19:54:06 And that's the way it should be.

19:54:09 That is the process that we have in this great country in

19:54:09 which we live.

19:54:14 So I will wait until the closure of the hearing, Mr.

19:54:15 Chairman, to make a motion please.

19:54:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.

19:54:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.

19:54:21 One or two questions and we can hopefully wrap up.














19:54:24 Miss Grimes.

19:54:28 The -- the site plan you have given us shows the -- as you

19:54:31 call it the temporary use of -- but I was looking through

19:54:35 your notebook to see if there is a site plan that showed

19:54:40 the proposed future school building.

19:54:45 Is there one, and if not, what -- how do we deal with that

19:54:49 procedurally because it is a PD.

19:54:51 How do we know what the footprint.

19:54:55 What the future footprint will be of that school, future

19:55:00 school building.

19:55:03 >> The site plan provides at the time future school

19:55:06 building is built it will be built in accordance with the

19:55:08 RM-24 standards.

19:55:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What -- I am sure it is there.

19:55:16 I just didn't see it.

19:55:17 >> At the bottom.

19:55:20 >> Proposed property use, school --

19:55:22 >> Hang on.

19:55:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: There we go.

19:55:25 B.

19:55:25 1-B.

19:55:30 I need to change the prescription on my glasses.

19:55:34 >> There it is under the proposed property uses, it is.

19:55:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That describes your setbacks, et

19:55:37 cetera.














19:55:40 >> Right below that is the condition that we agreed to

19:55:44 include to address the concern about the design, the

19:55:46 future school building will be designed in a manner

19:55:50 consistent and compatible with Gorrie Elementary and

19:55:52 Wilson middle schools.

19:55:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I was just concerned about the

19:55:58 footprint.

19:56:02 >> Yes Miss Cole -- thank you, Miss Grimes.

19:56:04 On the brick piers.

19:56:08 I agree on the one hand with miss Saul-Sena.

19:56:11 Aesthetically, it will be more consistent with what has

19:56:18 been done I think both at Wilson and Gorrie.

19:56:20 But at the same time, I don't believe that is an

19:56:25 appropriate use of tax money to be, you know, mandating

19:56:28 that kind of aesthetic feature.

19:56:33 So what I am thinking is, maybe just so -- just so the

19:56:34 site plan is clear.

19:56:39 Maybe what we could do sort of on a voluntary basis just

19:56:43 say at the school board's option, if this -- you know if

19:56:45 the foundation or some other -- you know some other

19:56:52 private entity wants to pay for it, they could do the

19:56:52 tiers.

19:56:57 And that way the site plan will reflect the piers, so when

19:57:00 it goes to development -- they say it didn't get approved

19:57:02 with piers.














19:57:05 I wanted to allow the school board and the foundation the

19:57:08 flexibility to have that as an option, but not a mandated

19:57:09 option.

19:57:11 >> If you can give me one moment.

19:57:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.

19:57:20 And the last thing -- Miss Grimes, while they are

19:57:27 confirming on the ES -- SREF.

19:57:28 >> SREF.

19:57:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Couldn't read that one either, SREF.

19:57:34 I mean, I haven't looked at that code and I am not

19:57:38 familiar with it at all, but is there any consideration of

19:57:41 a lower density lighting or is it just, you know, one size

19:57:43 fits all.

19:57:47 >> I can't tell you the details of it but a comprehensive

19:57:50 section in the SREF dealing with lighting in parking areas

19:57:52 which is different than lighting for schools, different

19:57:54 than lighting for athletic field.

19:57:58 I know there are comprehensive regulations on lighting.

19:58:02 As I -- keep in mind I mentioned there is a -- the school

19:58:04 board and Hillsborough County school board has policy for

19:58:05 a lights out.

19:58:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I mean obviously we want it to be safe

19:58:11 as possible when the parents are there in the evening or

19:58:15 the faculty stay late, we want it to be safe and lit for

19:58:18 those folks, but at the same time, I mean, we want to be














19:58:21 sensitive and not have K-Mart or Wal-Mart lighting.

19:58:23 >> Right, I understand.

19:58:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Could I speak to that as well?

19:58:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yeah, looks like Miss Valdez may have

19:58:29 a suggestion on it.

19:58:32 >> Miss Valdez says the standards are minimal.

19:58:36 It doesn't require, you know, very, very bright lighting.

19:58:37 Does not require that.

19:58:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Maybe what we can put in there is

19:58:44 something like -- will make all best attempts to be

19:58:45 consistent and compatible with the surrounding

19:58:48 neighborhood.

19:58:50 Something like that and you can all do your best to do

19:58:52 that.

19:58:55 >> We can say something like the lighting shall comply to

19:58:57 the SREF and to the extent possible, the school board

19:59:00 will, you know, work to ensure that it doesn't have a

19:59:04 negative impact on adjacent uses.

19:59:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That will be wonderful.

19:59:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Miss Saul-Sena.

19:59:12 >> Will not object to the option of having the piers if it

19:59:15 is at our option, to allow it to be developed if the

19:59:17 funding is made.

19:59:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Miss Saul-Sena, let me wrap up real

19:59:20 quick.














19:59:25 >>JULIA COLE: Let me address that issue.

19:59:28 Abby is figuring out the best way to have that note read

19:59:30 so it fits into the site plan.

19:59:35 What I will have her go do is read that into the record

19:59:39 and clarify as part of your mission.

19:59:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Last thing I wanted to wrap up.

19:59:43 When my children were going to Gorrie.

19:59:45 I was a Gorrie dad.

19:59:47 We lived all the way at the end of Davis island.

19:59:51 I mean at the end of Davis island out by the airport.

19:59:54 Not walking distance by any means and did put the kids on

19:59:58 the bus most of the time as I recall, but, you know, there

19:59:59 are a lot of times when you are picking them up to take

20:00:03 them to an appointment or to the doctor or to dance

20:00:08 recitals and this and that and becoming a distant memory,

20:00:13 but, you know, so do go over there and drive to the school

20:00:17 or if there is a parent-teacher conference or doing PTA or

20:00:20 the corn value which -- I think I was in the dunk tank but

20:00:24 I hope nobody has pictures or anything, but anyway, so

20:00:27 there is a lot of good reasons that a lot of Gorrie

20:00:31 parents and Wilson parents have to use the cars.

20:00:34 There are a lot of folks that are lucky enough to live

20:00:35 five or six blocks from the schools.

20:00:41 So those districts go a long distance away including I

20:00:46 think Harbour Island used to be, Davis Island is all














20:00:46 covered.

20:00:52 And then folks in Hyde Park who still live a good distance

20:00:54 including like the Wallaces.

20:00:57 So anyway, you know, I think there are some reasonable

20:01:00 compromises here but I will definitely support the parking

20:01:01 lot.

20:01:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.

20:01:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.

20:01:10 I was really involved with Gorrie school and I was safety

20:01:13 patrol and the President of the Student Council and I

20:01:15 wrote the Hyde Park plan.

20:01:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Were you -- were you President?

20:01:19 Were you President?

20:01:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: President.

20:01:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Of the school.

20:01:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: In the 6th grade.

20:01:26 And the most important thing I went down to the school

20:01:27 board to argue.

20:01:30 They were going to tear Gorrie school down and make it for

20:01:32 a parking lot for Wilson.

20:01:35 I went there as a young planner writing the Hyde Park

20:01:36 plan.

20:01:39 I said trust me, kids in the neighborhood and don't tear

20:01:40 it down.

20:01:43 Then they did something dreadful.














20:01:46 Covered all the windows with cement block because you

20:01:48 needed 17 feet of running blackboard.

20:01:51 They didn't take it into consideration it was a historic

20:01:51 building.

20:01:54 And I was thrilled to death years later when the school

20:01:58 system removed the cement blocks -- I mean I still

20:02:00 remember the architect -- but removed the cement blocks

20:02:03 and now children have the ability to look out the historic

20:02:04 windows which is great.

20:02:08 So in that spirit, even though for some bizarre reason

20:02:11 that none of us understand why it is not in the historic

20:02:13 district, when you get ready to build a building, I hope

20:02:17 it will be truly compatible and brick and appropriate.

20:02:20 But the other thing is, when you put in the lights, maybe

20:02:23 they can be historically compatible with some of the Hyde

20:02:24 Park lighting.

20:02:26 That will be really nice.

20:02:28 I think it is strategically smart to purchase this

20:02:31 property that makes all the sense in the world, but Hyde

20:02:34 Park looks great, and it looks great because people have

20:02:35 invested a lot in their yards and maintenance and

20:02:36 everything.

20:02:41 The foundation seems willing to put some energy into I had

20:02:45 stead of -- I am looking at the trees on north Boulevard,

20:02:45 South Boulevard.














20:02:49 Instead of the usual lollipop trees we could have trees

20:02:52 that could actually provide shade and create a lovely edge

20:02:54 there.

20:02:56 And I think that the -- anything that can be done to

20:03:00 enhance the aesthetics, particularly along South Boulevard

20:03:01 will be all to the good.

20:03:05 So I hope that you all will do that.

20:03:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions by Council.

20:03:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move.

20:03:10 >> Second.

20:03:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion and second.

20:03:16 All those in favor signify by saying aye.

20:03:18 >> Mr. Chairman, if I can, if you notice your agenda does

20:03:21 make reference to RM-24.

20:03:24 The Clerk has been provided with substitute ordinance.

20:03:27 We ask that the substitute ordinance be read which is for

20:03:30 the PD.

20:03:33 >>JULIA COLE: Prior to taking any vote, Miss Feeley needs

20:03:39 to read the additional language.

20:03:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The brick piers as an option.

20:03:45 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Something to this effect.

20:03:48 Abbye Feeley, Land Development Coordination.

20:03:51 I first wanted to -- the one nod if I occasion that was

20:03:54 included on your action agenda was the protective radius

20:03:57 of the trees need to be fixed.














20:03:59 And I have talked to the engineer on this project and that

20:04:02 was going to be taken care of in between first and second

20:04:04 reading, the second would be addition of the following

20:04:06 note concerning parking lot lighting.

20:04:10 Parking lot lighting shall comply with SREF and

20:04:17 Hillsborough County School Board to the expense possible,

20:04:20 minimize any adverse impacts on adjacent uses.

20:04:23 The other would be -- the third would be in relationship

20:04:26 to the piers that were discussed this evening and that

20:04:31 would be, there is currently a note on the plan that says

20:04:35 proposed 4-foot-high decorative metal fencing and this

20:04:41 note to be amended to state may include columns consistent

20:04:45 with the design at Gorrie across the street.

20:04:48 So I am not sure what the height of those columns are out

20:04:50 there, so I don't want to call out the height of those

20:04:52 columns.

20:04:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Not columns, they are piers, brick

20:04:59 piers, at Hillsborough County school board option.

20:05:02 This would have a minimum 8-foot separations that is

20:05:06 consistent with our code and meet all site visibility at

20:05:12 the intersections, the other thing is the hedge per my

20:05:13 discussion just out in with Miss Duffy.

20:05:16 I would like to see that hedge at 3 foot and the fence at

20:05:19 4 foot so it does not -- does not become a complete opaque

20:05:23 barrier but that plus the break-ups Of the column and that














20:05:26 note will get you guys where you want to be at the option

20:05:27 of the School Board.

20:05:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: One phrase more, the lighting.

20:05:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: She said the lighting.

20:05:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: To be added to the record.

20:05:37 But one thing to add to be historically appropriate if

20:05:43 possible.

20:05:45 >> At the option of the School Board.

20:05:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want written down.

20:05:50 I am not saying it is mandated but it is possible.

20:05:53 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Historically appropriate at the option of

20:05:54 the school.

20:05:56 Again that is something that --

20:05:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I understand --

20:06:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It is an option.

20:06:03 >> The second note as I read into the record would then be

20:06:09 amended to include and be historically appropriate at the

20:06:14 option of the school board.

20:06:21 And just want to make sure.

20:06:27 I believe I did read that in related to piers.

20:06:31 I read it in twice at the option of the Hillsborough

20:06:31 County school board.

20:06:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay, Mr. Chairman I will move the

20:06:36 following ordinance.

20:06:36 >> Second.














20:06:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: General vicinity of 503 and 505 South

20:06:44 Boulevard in the city Tampa, Florida, and more

20:06:46 particularly described in Section 1 from zoning district

20:06:53 from PD planned development retail residential office.

20:06:57 Provide an amended date with the amendments by Miss

20:06:58 Feeley.

20:07:02 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman on the motion, if this

20:07:06 motion passes is defeated, I would like to see the Tampa

20:07:08 police department do a survey to check the stop signs, the

20:07:12 no parking signs and sufficient markings on the

20:07:14 crosswalks.

20:07:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

20:07:16 We will come back to that.

20:07:17 A motion that has been moved and seconded.

20:07:20 Seconded by Councilman Miranda.

20:07:24 All in favor signify by saying aye.

20:07:24 Oppose owes.

20:07:27 >> Motion carries with Miller and Mulhern absent.

20:07:30 Second reading and adoption on February 18 at 9:30 A.M.

20:07:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano.

20:07:38 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, I would like to see

20:07:40 the Tampa police department send their traffic division

20:07:43 there to do a check on the stop signs, the no parking

20:07:46 signs, and sufficient markings indicating the crosswalks,

20:07:49 because we heard, you know, conflicting stories.














20:07:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

20:08:01 >> The Transportation department or t PD.

20:08:06 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Okay, the administration.

20:08:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

20:08:08 All in favor say aye.

20:08:10 Opposed.

20:08:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to request that the

20:08:15 preservation department -- I guess I would ask the

20:08:22 administration would look at the boundaries and --

20:08:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Clear in the computer.

20:08:26 >> Of the neighborhood boundaries?

20:08:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The boundaries of the district -- of

20:08:31 the historic district and give a written report back to us

20:08:35 in 30 days and whether to make them more rational.

20:08:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is that a motion?

20:08:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's a motion.

20:08:44 I will give them 60 days, yeah.

20:08:48 Actually -- actually to appear because maybe -- maybe they

20:08:49 can figure out why --

20:08:53 >> Could you be more specific as to what the intention of

20:08:54 Council is?

20:08:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: To make sure that the historic

20:09:02 district boundaries reflect the historic fabric of Hyde

20:09:06 Park to --

20:09:11 >> So are you asking the administration --














20:09:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Of South Boulevard and to the north --

20:09:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Can we pick that up when -- we need to

20:09:20 take at least a five-minute break because we are short of

20:09:23 Councilmembers tonight so a five-minute break.

20:09:23

20:20:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The Tampa City Council will now come to

20:20:25 order.

20:20:28 Roll call.

20:20:30 >> [Roll Call Taken]

20:20:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

20:20:36 We will pick up item 2.

20:20:40 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Council, if I may, I would like to

20:20:42 introduce Tawanda Anthony.

20:20:44 The first night before City Council.

20:20:47 She has been with the city for several years and comes

20:20:50 with us by way of Tallahassee and the Department of

20:20:52 Community Affair, and we are happy to have her before you

20:20:53 this evening.

20:20:54 Thank you.

20:20:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We will try to be nice.

20:20:58 >> Thank you, Abbye.

20:21:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: State your name.

20:21:03 >> Tawanda Anthony, Land Development Coordination.

20:21:04 I have been sworn.

20:21:07 Petition Z10-02.














20:21:12 The property address is 310 South Habana Avenue.

20:21:17 To rezone from RM-16 multifamily to PD planned development

20:21:19 to include the following uses, business professional

20:21:25 office, single-family single detached and congregate

20:21:26 facilities.

20:21:30 Council, I would like to know in the staff report it shows

20:21:36 daycare, nursery, retail sales and specialty goods as uses

20:21:39 and the petitioner asked that those uses be removed.

20:21:45 At this time, Tony Garcia with Planning Commission.

20:21:51 >>TONY GARCIA: Tony Garcia, Planning Commission staff.

20:22:01 I have been sworn in.

20:22:06 The request presently before you is right on the border

20:22:10 when you look at the provision map that is on your screen,

20:22:14 it borders in between the central district and the South

20:22:15 Tampa district.

20:22:19 It is located in the -- right off of South of Kennedy

20:22:23 Boulevard from habana and most people are really thinking

20:22:26 habana of being part of west Tampa but this particular one

20:22:28 is South of Kennedy parcel.

20:22:32 Let me go ahead and show you the future land use category

20:22:32 --

20:22:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Tony, your coloring is much better

20:22:39 than Miss Duffy-Suarez.

20:22:45 >>TONY GARCIA: Thanks.

20:22:47 The predominant land use category for this particular area














20:22:48 is Residential-20.

20:22:51 And then you have Residential-35 to the South.

20:22:54 South habana and here is Azeele.

20:23:02 The site is not quite mid-block in between Platt and

20:23:02 Azeele.

20:23:05 Let me get this mic here.

20:23:08 If I show you a larger scale, you can obviously see that

20:23:13 the site is located South of Kennedy Boulevard, in between

20:23:17 the collectors of Azeele and Platt.

20:23:22 In this area along Platt and Azeele, you pretty much see

20:23:23 low density office types of uses.

20:23:26 There was one that was approved not too long ago which was

20:23:29 this parcel over here for an office use.

20:23:32 Then we have some professional office uses over here.

20:23:34 In going with the concept.

20:23:36 What you have over here right now is -- it is a

20:23:38 residential type of structure.

20:23:41 The request is going to be for a series of types of uses

20:23:44 that would be considered community serving when you see

20:23:49 the list of uses that the applicant is requesting.

20:23:54 Going along with the concept of -- that the city is trying

20:23:57 to move forward with right now, what we are looking at

20:24:00 really is the design of the box and not necessarily the

20:24:00 use.

20:24:03 Predicated really on what your road network is.














20:24:06 You have to take that into consideration.

20:24:10 This is located habana in this particular part of town is

20:24:12 considered a neighborhood local street.

20:24:14 What you are looking at here is something that has been

20:24:15 blocked.

20:24:19 The only issue I would have in looking at this asking for

20:24:22 retail or Commercial type of use and does not fit the

20:24:25 criteria for a residential land use category predicated on

20:24:27 its proximity to a collector road.

20:24:30 If it is directly on the collector road, I can see our

20:24:33 retail neighbor, Commercial type use would be much more

20:24:38 viable, but since it is almost mid-block, and the -- the

20:24:41 intensity -- it is like a fine line, but when you think of

20:24:45 a neighborhood Commercial use and specialty retail type of

20:24:51 use, that puts it up -- ratcheting it into that gray area

20:24:54 where you will be a little hesitant of doing that.

20:24:56 All the other uses that are requested, professional

20:25:00 office, ALF, daycare center.

20:25:02 All of those other types of things are community serving

20:25:05 uses and lower type of intensities that fit into the

20:25:07 character of that particular area.

20:25:09 Planning Commission staff overall finds in proposed

20:25:11 request consistent with the comprehensive plan.

20:25:13 Conditionally, if the applicant can come in and strike the

20:25:16 proposed use for retail and neighborhood Commercial.














20:25:19 Also there is a list of requested uses.

20:25:22 Thank you.

20:25:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Questions by Council?

20:25:26 Okay.

20:25:30 Miss Anthony.

20:25:34 >> Tawanda Anthony, Land Development Coordination.

20:25:38 Again as Tony stated, the request is to rezone from RM-16,

20:25:41 residential multifamily to planned development, the

20:25:45 applicable codes are as follows: To reduce the required

20:25:49 buffer along the north and 15 feet with the 6-foot masonry

20:25:55 wall to 3.5 feet with a 6-foot fence and 2.8 feet with the

20:25:56 6-foot fence.

20:25:59 To reduce the required buffer along the east from 15 feet

20:26:05 with the 6-foot masonry wall to 5 feet to 2.7 feet with

20:26:07 the 6-foot fence.

20:26:12 To reduce the required buffer along the South and 15 feet

20:26:16 with the 6-foot masonry wall, the 10 feet with the 6-foot

20:26:19 fence and 3.9 feet with the 6-foot fence.

20:26:24 And to reduce the drive width from 20 feet to 16.42 feet

20:26:29 at the driveway entrance adjacent to the 29-inch oak and

20:26:34 to 18.8 feet width for remainder of the driveway adjacent

20:26:39 to the north property line, and this is to be amended

20:26:44 between first and second reading.

20:26:48 The petitioner is proposing to rezone the duplex from

20:26:52 RM-16 to PD to allow for alternative uses including














20:26:56 offices, congregate living facility and the retention of

20:26:59 the single family semi detached dwelling unit.

20:27:03 The current RM-16 zoning district allows for the following

20:27:04 requested uses.

20:27:08 Single-family semi detached up to 8 units and congregate

20:27:10 living facilities six or fewer.

20:27:14 In addition, the PD is requesting office.

20:27:20 The PD setbacks are as follows: North, 19.8 feet.

20:27:21 East, 58 feet.

20:27:23 South, 41 feet.

20:27:25 And west, 29.9 feet.

20:27:29 The maximum required number of parking spaces is 7.

20:27:39 And 7 spaces are being provided.

20:27:40 Here is a picture.

20:27:42 A zoning atlas.

20:27:50 And you can see the site is hatched green.

20:27:56 To the north by Platt, to the east by Arawana and to the

20:27:57 South by Azeele.

20:28:00 The RM-16 zoning surrounding the property as well as TD

20:28:04 zoning along Azeele which is a thoroughfare.

20:28:09 And recently, Council, you rezoned the PD to the southwest

20:28:19 corner.

20:28:29 This is an -- an aerial of the site.

20:28:41 Here is a view of the property.

20:28:42 Here is another view of the property.














20:28:48 You can also see the access point here is a view of the

20:28:51 rear property to show where the parking will be.

20:28:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can you go back one picture.

20:28:57 >> Sure.

20:28:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's more multi--

20:29:02 >> The access on Habana.

20:29:04 >> Some kind of multifamily next door.

20:29:07 >> These are multifamily townhouses.

20:29:10 And there will be a one-foot buffer.

20:29:13 And this shows the parking in the rear which will allow

20:29:20 the neighborhood character and feel to remain.

20:29:26 These are the town houses to the north.

20:29:31 This is the single family to the South.

20:29:34 This is multifamily to the west.

20:29:37 Additional multifamily to the west.

20:29:39 And these are some of the office uses that are along

20:29:48 Azeele.

20:29:58 The staff finds the petition inconsistent due to technical

20:30:04 standards that the petitioner revises the site plan with

20:30:07 the required note and site revisions stated in the report

20:30:12 below between first and second reading then staff will

20:30:14 find the plant consistent.

20:30:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder and then

20:30:18 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.

20:30:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I am good for now.














20:30:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.

20:30:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have one question.

20:30:29 Page 2 of the staff report at the bottom at the number 2.

20:30:32 They state please note there are a total of eight trees

20:30:35 that were planted to satisfy the violation for removal of

20:30:39 a 28-inch tree without permits that must be shown.

20:30:40 That they weren't on the tree table.

20:30:44 What -- do you know what the story was on the 28-inch

20:30:44 tree.

20:30:47 Was it this petitioner or some previous property owner?

20:30:50 I didn't know if you knew.

20:30:51 >> I am not sure.

20:30:54 I am sure the petitioner maybe can speak more to that.

20:30:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay, thank you.

20:30:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I am sorry, Mr. Chairman, I did have a

20:30:58 question.

20:30:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.

20:31:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.

20:31:04 Which one did you say your -- that they were voluntarily

20:31:07 -- daycare and nursery.

20:31:12 >> Daycare and nursery as well as retail and specialty

20:31:12 goods.

20:31:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Those have been removed.

20:31:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And the congregate living seems very

20:31:19 consistent.














20:31:21 Multifamily.

20:31:24 But the business professional has me scratching my head a

20:31:32 little bit at 1900 square feet.

20:31:35 What -- do we -- in the code, do we limit or do we speak

20:31:37 to what type of business we are talking about, business

20:31:40 professional.

20:31:44 Or -- I mean, I am mainly concerned about parking, and I

20:31:49 know you are showing -- the code says 3.3 spaces per

20:31:53 thousand square feet which I guess will be, like you say,

20:31:57 seven spaces and they meet that, but if you have -- you

20:32:01 know, 1900 square feet is not that small.

20:32:04 >> Probably be a small business, maybe a law firm or some

20:32:07 type of use that could -- office use that could adequately

20:32:10 use the site.

20:32:12 And with that, they are remaining the existing building,

20:32:17 so you will still get that residential feel and so it is

20:32:20 not intrusive in that neighborhood.

20:32:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I am concerned because the area is

20:32:25 pretty tight in parking with the school not very far away

20:32:27 and et cetera, et cetera.

20:32:29 We will hear from the petitioner on that but I have a

20:32:32 little concern about parking and maybe put a limitation on

20:32:33 what type of professional use.

20:32:34 Okay.

20:32:36 Thank you.














20:32:40 >> To put on the record some of the staff findings.

20:32:42 Solid waste in the site planning says it was inconsistent

20:32:47 and that a clarification and they did find the plan

20:32:48 consistent.

20:32:51 Transportation, technical modifications that the

20:32:58 petitioner has agreed to between first and second reading.

20:32:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.

20:33:01 >> If you have any questions, staff is available.

20:33:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.

20:33:07 Petitioner.

20:33:12 >> And I will like to note you have the revision sheet z

20:33:13 10-02.

20:33:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We do.

20:33:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here we go.

20:33:21 >> Gina Grimes, Hill, Ward and Henderson.

20:33:24 101 East Kennedy Boulevard suite 3700.

20:33:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Isn't there a once per night rule.

20:33:28 >> I know, I wish there was.

20:33:32 You will be tired of me by the time I am done.

20:33:35 We are handing out our presentation binders that actually

20:33:39 Mr. Shelby, they contain the change sheet in there.

20:33:41 The last item in there.

20:33:45 I represent the William A. Brown Family limited

20:33:50 partnership and Mr. Brown is here with me this evening.

20:33:52 We have the contract to purchase this property at 310














20:33:54 South Habana.

20:33:58 And his office is currently -- his offices are currently

20:33:58 in North Tampa.

20:34:01 He is a resident of South Tampa and has been searching for

20:34:04 some time for a residential scale office where he could

20:34:05 move his offices to.

20:34:08 He is in the investment business and is also involved in

20:34:10 many civic activities.

20:34:13 And so the office Mr. Dingfelder would be principally used

20:34:17 for that purpose.

20:34:20 I have some photos of the site, and I know you saw a

20:34:23 couple of them but I would like to show you these because

20:34:25 there are a couple of things I want to show you.

20:34:30 The structure that exists existed there since 1949, 51

20:34:30 years old.

20:34:33 And what I want to emphasize here is the lot sizes.

20:34:36 You can see it is an expansive lot.

20:34:40 It is 15,000 square feet, a little over a third of an

20:34:44 acre, and it has on it only a 2,000-square-foot house.

20:34:48 Here is -- here is the -- the property line to the north

20:34:53 and adjacent to it is a multifamily apartment building.

20:34:57 I believe, though, it is a condominum form of ownership

20:35:00 and you can see what is facing the site right now is just

20:35:02 the air conditioning unit.

20:35:06 And that's what the apartment complex faces on the -- on














20:35:08 the north elevation of this building.

20:35:13 In the back yard, you can see a very large area.

20:35:16 This will be torn off and that is where the parking will

20:35:16 go.

20:35:20 We are providing seven parking spaces, the parking

20:35:23 requirements, Mr. Dingfelder, in your code are 3.3 per

20:35:25 thousand feet so 6.6 spaces.

20:35:27 We are providing 7 spaces.

20:35:28 So we meet code.

20:35:30 We are not asking for any waiver of the parking.

20:35:37 Again this is the area where the parking will go.

20:35:39 The South elevation of the house.

20:35:41 What I wanted you to see here, this is -- this is the

20:35:45 single-family home that is on Azeele that backs up to the

20:35:49 property, and what I wanted you to see was the distance

20:35:58 between the single family home on the South and the and

20:36:00 the southern part of the wall structure.

20:36:03 In the past it has been used as a duplex for renters

20:36:04 mostly.

20:36:08 As ta Wanda mentioned we have an alternative scenario

20:36:12 retain the existing structure and use it for office,

20:36:18 congregate living facility, and -- and or a duplex.

20:36:21 As mentioned they removed the day care use and removed the

20:36:27 specialty retail use, but something that we need to note

20:36:33 is that some of the uses by definition in your city code














20:36:36 is specifically in single family and multifamily districts

20:36:39 and RM-16.

20:36:42 It is already a permitted use, the day care although we

20:36:45 are removing is also a permitted use and so is the single

20:36:46 family.

20:36:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: With I bring up.

20:36:51 Is there any opposition.

20:36:52 >> Yes.

20:36:56 The principal purpose of this application and the other

20:37:00 uses we are requesting approval for.

20:37:03 The principal purpose is for business professional office.

20:37:06 That is the principal purpose for the are zoning

20:37:07 application.

20:37:10 The second alternative development scenario would be to

20:37:12 demolish the existing structure and use it in accordance

20:37:16 with the RM-16 uses and standards which is what it is

20:37:17 zoned for right now.

20:37:20 The setbacks and some of the site plan detail.

20:37:25 I wanted to emphasize the extensive setbacks for the

20:37:28 existing structure, the front setback is 30 feet, which is

20:37:31 greater than what is required under the code.

20:37:35 The side setback on the north is 19.8 feet, almost 20

20:37:36 feet.

20:37:39 In the rear, the setback is 58 feet from the property line

20:37:41 to the back of the structure.














20:37:47 And on the South, which is also a side, it is 41 feet from

20:37:50 the South wall to the South property line.

20:37:54 The far at 2,000 square feet is only .16 which is

20:37:57 one-third of what is allowed under the comp plan.

20:38:01 The comp plan a .5.

20:38:03 This is .16.

20:38:03 One-third.

20:38:07 The green space.

20:38:09 This lot and this structure has maintained all of the

20:38:11 green space that exists right now.

20:38:14 This site has 46.7% green space.

20:38:15 If you compare it to all the surrounding uses and

20:38:22 structures, you will see that it has far more green space

20:38:24 than any of the surrounding uses and we already mentioned

20:38:26 the parking.

20:38:27 The staff report.

20:38:31 The city staff after we agreed to make the modifications

20:38:35 that are in your change sheet have agreed to support the

20:38:37 application or find it consistent.

20:38:39 And I also wanted to point out something in the Planning

20:38:42 Commission staff report, Mr. Garcia.

20:38:44 I noticed that the reports are different now that you have

20:38:46 a new comp plan, and something I thought was interesting

20:38:51 is that oftentimes we find or if people believe how the

20:38:53 perception that office or neighborhood Commercial is --














20:38:56 has a negative impact to neighborhoods, to residential

20:39:01 areas, and he points out three policies in the new comp

20:39:03 plan that are counter to that.

20:39:05 What he is saying is a mixture of uses like this, maintain

20:39:08 neighborhood stability because they enhance livability,

20:39:13 stability, and mobility, he also says that the picture of

20:39:17 uses foster compatible infill, and as long as the size of

20:39:20 the -- of the use is consistent in size and scale that it

20:39:23 will be compatible land fill.

20:39:27 And lastly, he also makes note of the fact that the -- the

20:39:30 mixture of uses enhance the neighborhood economic

20:39:34 development plan by supporting neighborhood business he

20:39:37 says that enhances the vitality and quality of life in a

20:39:44 community and improve the entire multifamily area.

20:39:47 Tawanda went over with you the waivers we are asking.

20:39:50 In a sense we are only requesting two waivers.

20:39:53 Someone a landscape buffer waiver, and other is a waiver

20:39:54 to the drive aisle.

20:39:57 And I am going to address the second one first.

20:40:01 The drive aisle is on the northern side of the property.

20:40:03 This is the existing driveway.

20:40:07 What the waiver request says is that we are reducing the

20:40:14 driveway width from 20 feet to 16 feet, but what I want

20:40:16 to point out only at the very entrance of the driveway,

20:40:20 the reduced four feet and that is to accommodate the














20:40:21 existing tree.

20:40:25 We had comments from Mary Bryson that said she wanted to

20:40:29 be sure that we maintained a protective radius around that

20:40:35 tree and in order to have -- since the driveway exists we

20:40:39 had to request waiver from 20 feet down to 16, but for the

20:40:42 remainder of the driveway, the driveway aisle reduction is

20:40:45 from 20 feet to 18.8 feet.

20:40:50 So a very small waiver of only 1.2 feet of the required

20:40:54 drive aisle lift, the second waiver dealing with the

20:40:55 landscape buffer.

20:40:59 We are, in fact, requesting a reduction of the landscape

20:40:59 buffer on the north.

20:41:03 It is adjacent to where you saw the multifamily air

20:41:05 conditioners and the back of that building.

20:41:07 That building is very, very close to the property line.

20:41:18 Want to say it's seven feet away from their South property

20:41:19 line.

20:41:20 It is already very close.

20:41:23 What we will do is put an opaque fence there and we will

20:41:25 plant a vine that will grow along that fence.

20:41:29 On the east side, which is toward the back, we have a

20:41:32 landscape area of 5 feet.

20:41:35 Although it is actually 5 feet to the shed right here that

20:41:38 will be -- that will remain on-site, but it is actually

20:41:40 about 11 feet to the parking area.














20:41:44 So it is a reduction from 15 feet really to only 11 feet

20:41:46 for most of the Eastern boundary of the property.

20:41:51 And on the South, we had to request a waiver of 15 feet to

20:41:52 10 feet.

20:41:54 That is just for this existing pavement.

20:41:57 The distance to the new pavement, and this existing

20:42:02 pavement have to stay at the request of the -- of the

20:42:06 parks department because it is around this very large

20:42:10 camphor tree and they don't want the pavement to be

20:42:13 removed because it may damage the roots.

20:42:17 A waiver of the landscape buffer from 15 feet to 10 feet,

20:42:21 but actually it is 15 feet to the new pavement and 10 feet

20:42:24 to the existing pavement.

20:42:27 We think that both of these waiver requests are very

20:42:30 reasonable and they are being done to accommodate trees

20:42:35 and to accommodate the existing site.

20:42:37 Additionally as far as the landscape waivers are

20:42:43 concerned, Mr. Brown virtually went door to door in this

20:42:46 neighborhood to speak with the neighbors and make sure

20:42:51 they understood the substance of his proposal and sat down

20:42:56 with the doctor who lives just to the South.

20:42:59 There is a letter of no -- or an E-Mail of no objection in

20:43:01 your file and the documents we provided.

20:43:04 He has -- since we removed the day care and removed the

20:43:07 retail, has no objections to this proposal.














20:43:10 The individuals who own these town houses back here think

20:43:11 this gentleman Mr. Frazier.

20:43:16 He has lived there, Mr. Brown said, for I think 52 years.

20:43:19 And he is very happy that it is going to be redeveloped

20:43:22 into something other than what it has been, which has been

20:43:23 a duplex.

20:43:26 As well, the property owner who owns of two these units

20:43:27 here.

20:43:31 He is Mr. Bela Virigi.

20:43:35 He told Mr. Brown that he has no objection to his

20:43:36 proposal.

20:43:38 There are two individuals, I believe.

20:43:45 I spoke to one of them -- who is here in opposition to it.

20:43:48 This live across the street in the town house development

20:43:50 on this side the street.

20:43:56 Mr. Brown spoke briefly it Mr. Purey.

20:43:58 He is one the individuals and I spoke to him on the phone

20:43:59 and E-Mailed him as well.

20:44:02 His objection is to the congregate living facility and his

20:44:04 position is that it is a Commercial use and it is not

20:44:06 appropriate in this area.

20:44:09 Well, in fact, your city code defines it as or says it is

20:44:12 a permitted use in single family.

20:44:15 It is a permitted use under the current zoning.

20:44:19 Even if there wasn't a rezoning congregate living facility














20:44:21 it would be permitted.

20:44:25 We had a brief conversation before we went up here, if we

20:44:28 remove the congregate living facility they would not

20:44:31 object to the office proposal.

20:44:33 Mr. Brown feels after a brief discussion with him, feels

20:44:36 that this congregate living facilities are already

20:44:39 permitted in this zoning district and even in

20:44:43 single-family zoning districts that he should have the

20:44:45 right to retain that as an optional use.

20:44:48 So basically the proposed uses are office, congregate

20:44:52 living facility, and then -- and single family semi

20:44:56 detached.

20:44:59 With that, we will be available to answer any questions.

20:45:03 I don't know if Mr. Brown wants to say anything.

20:45:03 No?

20:45:07 And we will be available for rebuttal as well.

20:45:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council?

20:45:09 No questions.

20:45:13 Those who -- those who wish to address Council, you may

20:45:18 come forward at this time.

20:45:21 Let me just raise the question.

20:45:23 Have you all been sworn.

20:45:26 Has everybody here been sworn?

20:45:29 Has anyone has not been sworn tonight that will be

20:45:31 addressing Council.














20:45:35 Please stand at this time and be sworn.

20:45:35 [Oath Adminstered by Clerk]

20:45:45 >> Thank you.

20:45:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: State your name and address.

20:45:52 >> Joe Dascora at 303 South Habana Avenue Unit B.

20:45:54 We are right across the street.

20:45:56 I don't want to bore you, but I am probably the 7th

20:45:57 President here this evening.

20:46:02 I am President of the Habana Homeowners Association.

20:46:07 I have been President for unwillingly for about seven

20:46:08 years.

20:46:15 The -- the structure itself, it was built -- our structure

20:46:19 itself was built in 1998 and it is 12 years old.

20:46:22 Most of us have lived there since the inception.

20:46:26 I have been there for nine years.

20:46:31 It is a -- it is a community.

20:46:37 It is bounded by Azeele and by Platt.

20:46:40 A block away it is Mitchell middle school, which adds to

20:46:42 the charm, but also adds to the congestion.

20:46:51 And also adds to in the mornings lining up parking with

20:46:54 our -- I guess it is in front of our gated community.

20:46:56 And also in the afternoon.

20:46:58 It is something that we live with.

20:47:04 With that in mind, the objection that we have -- this

20:47:07 property directly across the street from us have gone














20:47:13 through a lot of phases, mostly negative.

20:47:18 It has been a rental, and rentals don't always take care

20:47:19 of the property.

20:47:24 Our objection would be that if it continues to be a

20:47:29 multifamily that's fine because it is a duplex.

20:47:33 If it becomes an office or both become an office which was

20:47:37 mentioned, maybe a small business, lawyer, CPA, something

20:47:40 like that, that would be fine also, because the only

20:47:48 reason we are saying that is we want to eliminate or -- or

20:47:53 try to minimize any kind of parking on a very narrow

20:47:59 street that is a thoroughfare.

20:48:06 Our objection is beyond that a congregate living facility.

20:48:10 I am not sure what "congregate" means.

20:48:14 It sounds like it can become anything.

20:48:16 I think we have a problem with it can become anything and

20:48:19 once we say okay and it is agreed to, we really have no

20:48:19 control.

20:48:26 And then our nice, little, local neighborhood community

20:48:28 becomes a very busy business way.

20:48:30 That is what we object to.

20:48:35 We are in agreement that we -- to have it as a multifamily

20:48:42 and small business, that's fine because I think that is --

20:48:47 whether the statutes say CLF 6, whatever that means is

20:48:47 okay.

20:48:52 Given the fact that it is described in detail and could be














20:48:56 in the future that's why we object to it.

20:49:04 I would like to introduce is Shawn Perry, who is a legal

20:49:05 counsel and also a resident.

20:49:09 I do have some pictures if this would help that I took, so

20:49:12 please be very nice about them.

20:49:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Just put them down and we will see

20:49:14 them.

20:49:22 Other way.

20:49:25 Mr. Chairman, can we have a moment for the camera to zoom

20:49:25 in.

20:49:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: They can do that while the next speaker

20:49:28 comes up.

20:49:29 >> How is that.

20:49:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Great.

20:49:34 >> You see on the upper left hand corner.

20:49:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Sir, your time is up.

20:49:38 What we will do is have the camera people just zoom in on

20:49:38 it.

20:49:39 Okay.

20:49:43 They can zoom on it while the next speaker comes.

20:49:45 >> My associate can carry on.

20:49:48 Thank you very much for your time, I appreciate it.

20:49:49 >> Hello, John Kerry.

20:49:53 309 South Habana Avenue.

20:49:58 As he just told you guys, I am counsel for the














20:50:02 association, and he pretty much hit the nail on the head

20:50:05 when he said we aren't opposed to small office, we aren't

20:50:10 opposed to single family, even multifamily use, but we

20:50:14 believe it might be getting out of hand when we even talk

20:50:18 about law offices and small medical practices because as

20:50:21 Miss Grimes stated, the park something all in the rear,

20:50:24 and realistically speaking, my concerns realistically is

20:50:27 that people aren't going to know that the park something

20:50:29 in the rear.

20:50:32 People aren't going to care that the parking is in the

20:50:32 rear.

20:50:35 They will want to park in the front because the front is

20:50:36 nearest to the front door.

20:50:40 If it were a small office, say a medical facility, you

20:50:46 would have the potential for people who didn't want to

20:50:47 park in the back.

20:50:50 I am speaking in terms of realism here.

20:50:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just for the record.

20:50:56 Can we get clarification, I don't think it can be medical.

20:51:01 I just want to say -- it can't be medical because medical

20:51:02 is a different category.

20:51:06 Carry on with anything else but it can't be medical.

20:51:09 >> But otherwise, even a small business I believe -- it

20:51:12 would dramatically or potentially dramatically increase

20:51:16 the amount of congestion and traffic on that -- on our














20:51:16 road.

20:51:19 Again, he live immediately across the street.

20:51:25 So I would be directly impacted by any sort of increase in

20:51:32 density and traffic.

20:51:35 As this picture shows these are town homes right here.

20:51:39 I haven't had a chance to really go through these.

20:51:42 The property in issue and my house is immediately across

20:51:43 the street over there.

20:51:48 And Miss Grimes mentioned something about how the property

20:51:51 isn't being fully used to its capacity which means there

20:51:55 is potential construction that they are considering about

20:51:59 demolishing this structure and rebuilding it to maximize

20:52:04 the amount of space that they actually have and could use

20:52:07 which means again traffic, construction.

20:52:12 Things that I would be directly affected by if there was

20:52:16 any sort of rezoning.

20:52:20 Again, I am actually renege whether or not I would object

20:52:25 based on statements made by the petitioner as potential

20:52:31 demolition and reconstruction that -- that I will be

20:52:32 absolutely opposed to.

20:52:37 I think it should be maintained as is, as multifamily and

20:52:40 no change to the use.

20:52:42 Thank you.

20:52:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can I have legal before the next

20:52:49 speaker comes back.














20:52:50 For our attorney.

20:52:59 In -- in a rezoning, Council in making a determination

20:53:02 doesn't have any power whether the building stays or go if

20:53:07 it is not a historic structure, suspect that correct?

20:53:09 >> That's correct.

20:53:11 >> We can't address whether the petitioner keeps the

20:53:12 building, tear it is down.

20:53:14 >>JULIA COLE: But they actually -- what they have done is

20:53:18 place a note on their site plan that says it -- that the

20:53:21 existing building under the configuration of the existing

20:53:26 building has the opportunity for office and retaining, I

20:53:30 think, the right to be an assisted living facility.

20:53:36 And the site plan says that they do.

20:53:43 They will be governed by the RM-16 zoning.

20:53:46 If they did tear it down, they would have to be RM-16

20:53:50 setback, uses, et cetera.

20:53:53 >> To go back to where they are right now.

20:53:54 >>JULIA COLE: Correct.

20:53:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Right now they are RM-16.

20:53:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

20:54:05 Next speaker.

20:54:23 >> My name is Scott Reynolds, the Treasurer and secretary

20:54:25 of the condo association which is the building just north

20:54:30 of this building at 306 and 304 South Habana.

20:54:33 I don't currently live there but I own a condominum there














20:54:34 as investment property.

20:54:37 If you look at the pictures, you can see that one of our

20:54:40 main concerns is that you can see the building fronts

20:54:42 right up to the north side.

20:54:47 These are all windows back here so any traffic that flows

20:54:52 through the -- flows into a parking lot.

20:54:54 You can see they want to put a parking lot back here.

20:54:57 This will greatly effect our personal ownership of that

20:54:58 property.

20:55:00 In addition to the people living there, it will affect the

20:55:02 quality of their lives.

20:55:05 And so our major concern with having any kind of

20:55:08 Commercial property there is that the increase in traffic.

20:55:12 In fact in the letter that we got it said all parking will

20:55:15 be located to the rear of the property which eliminates

20:55:17 the need for a circular driveway around the rear and

20:55:19 southern side of the property.

20:55:22 This is being done to avoid adding traffic and noise

20:55:25 closer to the single-family home.

20:55:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Where is your residence?

20:55:29 >> We are on the other side.

20:55:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Of what?

20:55:30 >> Of this building.

20:55:34 The single-family dwelling on the corner I have a zeal and

20:55:35 Habana.














20:55:37 We are the next building north of it.

20:55:40 It is nestled between us and the single-family dwelling.

20:55:41 Okay.

20:55:44 So as you can see, even putting up a small opaque wall

20:55:47 here with vines growing on it will not lower the traffic,

20:55:50 the noise coming through there, and a great concern --

20:55:52 concern of our residents.

20:55:54 Me personally and of our residents there.

20:55:57 Feel any kind of business that would bring Commercial

20:56:00 traffic in there will bring a lot of noise and would be a

20:56:04 potential disaster for -- any us trying to rent our

20:56:07 condos, if they looked back and saw this big parking lot

20:56:11 as opposed to the green space there now, this would really

20:56:15 be a detriment to people who have investment property

20:56:16 there also.

20:56:19 I also would like to point out that on average, this is --

20:56:21 this is the corner of Azeele and Habana.

20:56:23 I used to work from home.

20:56:26 I lived in my condo for seven years.

20:56:28 On average there were traffic accidents between the hours

20:56:33 of 8 a.m. and 6 p.m. I ran out there five times a month,

20:56:36 major collisions at that intersection.

20:56:39 And I believe any traffic that is brought into that area

20:56:42 will only increase that hazard and the study should be

20:56:45 done to make sure this is much record and I am actually on














20:56:48 record by the Tampa police department running out there to

20:56:50 assist the people in automobile accidents out there.

20:56:54 And while there are Commercial properties along Azeele,

20:57:01 and that makes sense because it is a major thoroughfare,

20:57:04 this kind of puts residential right in the middle of

20:57:06 Commercial property and that doesn't seem right.

20:57:07 Thank you for your time.

20:57:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Your address again.

20:57:12 >> Personal address 608 North New Jersey Avenue, but I am

20:57:16 still an owner of a condo in the association --

20:57:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: In the long strip there.

20:57:21 >> In the long strip.

20:57:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Only about two blocks long --

20:57:25 >> What's that.

20:57:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: New Jersey is about two blocks long.

20:57:30 >> Two blocks long.

20:57:32 A lot of people don't know where New Jersey is.

20:57:36 >> A nice quiet area there.

20:57:38 >> And I got myself a house there.

20:57:39 Thank you.

20:57:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.

20:57:50 >> My name is Jim Hayes and I live at 304 South Habana,

20:57:54 and I am the President of the condo association and the

20:57:56 residence and two buildings there and 16 units, eight in

20:57:58 each building.














20:58:01 And I don't know much more what I can say.

20:58:05 But what Scott said is that we do, you know, are concerned

20:58:09 about the amount of traffic that will go up and down that

20:58:11 driveway in the back.

20:58:15 It is bad enough that Habana has become a thoroughfare,

20:58:18 and there are tons of traffic on that every day because

20:58:23 there is a hospital sign at Kennedy, and that -- Habana

20:58:25 goes right down to memorial hospital.

20:58:29 And I would like to see what kind of a study some day to

20:58:32 figure out how much traffic, but it is like a road rage

20:58:36 going down there daily.

20:58:38 That's pretty much my concern.

20:58:41 I didn't know until tonight that they wanted to pull the

20:58:44 day care thing and really are opposed to that in the

20:58:44 traffic.

20:58:48 But we didn't know until we got here and I still think

20:58:50 Commercial building on that street would take away from

20:58:53 the aesthetics of the property and also the values of the

20:58:54 property.

20:58:54 Thank you for your time.

20:58:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.

20:58:59 Anyone else here to speak on this?

20:59:03 Petitioner.

20:59:08 >> Gina Grimes.

20:59:12 He want to emphasize that, again, the objection to the














20:59:14 congregate living facility.

20:59:16 Again, congregate living facility is already a permitted

20:59:19 use under the current zoning.

20:59:23 Likewise, as Mr. Purey mentioned he would be opposed to

20:59:25 any kind of redevelopment to the site because of the

20:59:28 traffic and construction impacts it would have to his

20:59:29 property.

20:59:31 The property owner is entitled to do that now under the

20:59:35 RM-16 zoning and demolish the structure and rebuild.

20:59:37 All we are asking to do.

20:59:42 Mr. Reynolds from the Franklin Park Condominum

20:59:42 Association.

20:59:47 As I mentioned Mr. Brown actually went door to door to

20:59:50 everyone that abutted this lot, and he spoke to three of

20:59:56 the individuals that own units at 306 South Habana, and

20:59:56 they had no objections.

20:59:59 He wasn't able to reach some of the other ones.

21:00:02 Obviously he wasn't able to reach Mr. Reynolds, but not

21:00:04 everyone in that association or that apartment complex has

21:00:11 an objection to the -- to the proposal.

21:00:15 Mr. Purey also mentioned that the parking will occur on

21:00:19 the right-of-way.

21:00:24 We will be willing to put signage.

21:00:31 If parking on the right-of-way we have enforcement to

21:00:32 address that concern.














21:00:34 We think that and the Planning Commission thinks and your

21:00:36 staff thinks that the office uses are compatible and

21:00:39 consistent with this area that is comprised mostly of

21:00:44 multifamily and single family attached, semi detached

21:00:44 units.

21:00:47 You heard the reasons under the comp plan why it would be

21:00:50 consistent to have this mixture of uses.

21:00:52 And given that all of the competent and substantial

21:00:55 evidence you heard supports this proposal, we would

21:00:57 request your approval.

21:01:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.

21:01:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.

21:01:04 Miss Grimes, on Page 2 of the zoning report, there is a

21:01:07 question of the removal of a 28-inch tree without permits

21:01:13 and whether the eight trees that are supposed to be

21:01:17 planted to satisfy the violation are indicated.

21:01:19 What was the story --

21:01:23 >> Apparently the people that owned the lot before the

21:01:25 current owners -- Mr. Brown has a contract to phi it from

21:01:28 the Fernandezs.

21:01:30 That is who own it is now.

21:01:34 Before the Fernandezs owned it someone removed a tree in

21:01:37 the back yard and several replacement trees to address

21:01:40 that violation and Miss Bryson noted that a couple of

21:01:43 those replacement trees were not in good health and were














21:01:45 declining or were dead.

21:01:48 We agreed as part of this application to replace the

21:01:50 replacement trees.

21:01:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thanks for the clarification.

21:01:52 Thank you.

21:01:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?

21:01:56 Councilman Dingfelder.

21:02:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Miss Grimes, the -- the concern I have

21:02:06 -- and I don't know if it was a big concern, but I guess

21:02:08 it was a concern of the neighbors across the street

21:02:11 especially was the congregate living facility and sitting

21:02:14 here looking at our -- at our code definition of

21:02:18 congregate living facility which is fairly lengthy.

21:02:22 It is limited to -- and you can self-impose limitation to

21:02:24 six or fewer residents which is good.

21:02:27 >> Sorry, I should have said that.

21:02:30 We do have that limitation, six or fewer.

21:02:33 >> The only thing I don't see on here and maybe staff can

21:02:40 help me with is -- is what type of resident care is

21:02:46 allowed or disallowed under our definition, specifically I

21:02:49 guess I would be a little concerned with the neighborhood

21:02:52 -- established neighborhood like this that -- of drug and

21:02:53 alcohol treatment.

21:02:55 And that sort of thing.

21:02:58 So -- because I am not seeing any reference --














21:03:02 >> In that same definition you are looking at.

21:03:06 Says personal care services does not include medical or

21:03:06 nursing treatment.

21:03:10 A little further down in the definition.

21:03:14 So congregate living facility is one where personal care

21:03:17 services are provided but those services cannot include

21:03:19 nursing and medical treatment.

21:03:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I understand that, but if I lived

21:03:26 right there adjacent especially -- and everything else I

21:03:27 don't think this would be an appropriate place for a drug

21:03:31 and alcohol ACL.

21:03:35 So -- I don't know if -- if we speak to it in the code,

21:03:38 and frankly I would be thrilled if the applicant

21:03:41 self-imposed a limitation that said they wouldn't do drug

21:03:43 and alcohol HCLS.

21:03:45 Go ahead.

21:03:48 >> Personal residential services are not permitted in

21:03:50 congregate living facilities.

21:03:57 It wouldn't -- professional residential facilities are not

21:03:57 permitted.

21:04:03 So it would be a prohibited use.

21:04:07 The drug and alcohol use --

21:04:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What if a congregate facility, drug

21:04:13 and rehab type thing.

21:04:17 >>ABBYE FEELEY: I am sorry, Abbye Feeley, Land














21:04:17 Development.

21:04:19 Not per the congregate.

21:04:22 Alcohol and drug rehab is captured under what we call

21:04:24 professional residential facility.

21:04:28 Professional residential facilities are not permitted in

21:04:30 the residential multifamily district.

21:04:33 Therefore that use could not occur.

21:04:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: In light of that I would feel more

21:04:40 comfortable if we expressly stated that in the conditions.

21:04:41 >> We have no objection to that.

21:04:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.

21:04:47 As far as -- as far as other types of ALCFs, and I am

21:04:49 speaking to the residents who oppose this.

21:04:55 You know other types of ALCFs are allowed in our

21:04:55 neighborhood.

21:05:03 And handicapped folks, that sort of thing, people who

21:05:06 can't take care of themselves and they need a little bit

21:05:07 of help.

21:05:10 You are only talking about six of them and don't have much

21:05:12 vehicle traffic when do you that because you will have

21:05:14 maybe one two caretakers.

21:05:16 So I don't think that is a big imposition and frankly they

21:05:19 could do that right now without the PD.

21:05:22 So anyway, if we can just put that condition in about drug

21:05:25 and alcohol, I think that would be --














21:05:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda.

21:05:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

21:05:31 Just on the congregate living facility.

21:05:34 Close to the where I live there is a few, Tampa bay and

21:05:36 Gomez that is functioning very well.

21:05:38 I don't even know it is there and within four or five

21:05:40 blocks of the house.

21:05:42 Another one Habana and Tampa bay.

21:05:43 That is functioning well.

21:05:46 I don't even know that they are there.

21:05:50 One that has a different type next to Saint John's

21:05:51 Presbyterian Church.

21:05:54 I don't know they are there.

21:05:56 There are no cars going in and out.

21:06:00 It is a shame not enough cars going in and out.

21:06:05 Because that means that very few people visit those that

21:06:07 really need help from the family.

21:06:13 And the larger one on Columbus drive and Gomez was -- was

21:06:17 an apartment complex that gave the prior administration

21:06:18 headaches.

21:06:22 And prior administration worked out, and it became

21:06:24 assisted living facility.

21:06:28 And that assisted living facility has brought up the

21:06:29 values of the property.

21:06:33 There is about 24 to 30 units there.














21:06:36 They have excellent care, and there is a difference.

21:06:39 They bring in a doctor once a week to examine the patients

21:06:44 that are there that are sick.

21:06:46 They have ample parking.

21:06:49 Never, ever do I see more than six or seven cars there.

21:06:55 Because we forget who helped us get to where we are at.

21:06:57 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

21:06:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.

21:07:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: One other thing.

21:07:03 Miss Grimes, the only other concern I have if I lived

21:07:06 across the street and I don't have any doubt that Mr.

21:07:09 Brown will do what he says he is going to do in the short

21:07:11 term, but if he sold it down the road in terms of the

21:07:15 professional office, there is no limitation on the number

21:07:20 of professionals, you know, and employees that could

21:07:22 potentially be there.

21:07:24 So therefore -- there is a lot of opportunity for

21:07:27 on-street parking along there, but that might start

21:07:30 imposing again on the neighborhood.

21:07:34 So if y'all can just huddle up and say what is a

21:07:40 reasonable number of professionals and employees total

21:07:43 that would be there every day, I would think three or

21:07:47 four, five at the most or something like that.

21:07:51 >> A congregate living facility is limited to six.

21:07:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Six residences.














21:07:59 Anyway, if you all can think of something reasonable --

21:08:01 >> It is a 2,000-square-foot structure.

21:08:05 You can only fit so many people and run an office of a

21:08:09 certain size within a 2,000-square-foot structure.

21:08:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yeah, well, you can put a lot of

21:08:16 people in little cubicles and have a lot more people in a

21:08:19 2,000 -- yeah, -- just think about it if you can.

21:08:23 I think -- I think it is reasonable in light of the fact

21:08:25 that it is a neighborhood and we just -- we want to put a

21:08:29 reasonable professional use in there, and it is a PD.

21:08:33 It you all could consider that for a second.

21:08:34 Thank you.

21:08:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?

21:08:38 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.

21:08:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I really -- this is a question for

21:08:44 Miss Grimes.

21:08:46 I really understood the concerns of the neighbors that

21:08:50 the back yard which had been grassy and trees is now going

21:08:53 to be paved and you are asking for some waivers, I

21:08:53 believe.

21:08:56 Are you asking -- actually not of the green space, no.

21:09:02 I made the point that even when it is all paved, 46.7% of

21:09:04 the entire site is green space.

21:09:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That is impressive.

21:09:09 >> Substantially more what their town home project is as














21:09:09 far as green space.

21:09:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Is there going to be any Commercial

21:09:14 lighting back there or very low key.

21:09:15 >> No, no lighting.

21:09:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Will there be any Commercial signage

21:09:21 in front?

21:09:24 >> The -- I don't think we have a signage provision on

21:09:28 this site plan, but we would be to agree -- willing to

21:09:31 agree on the same limitations on the signage you have in

21:09:35 your RO district would have to be residential in

21:09:37 character.

21:09:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Pretty small.

21:09:39 >> Yes.

21:09:42 The intent is to maintain the residential appearance of

21:09:43 this structure.

21:09:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That is what I think the neighbors

21:09:49 really want to look and feel like it is just a residence.

21:09:54 >> What we would add to the change sheet is Mr.

21:09:57 Dingfelder's request that we make clear that it does not

21:10:01 -- the congregate living facility does not allow for

21:10:04 professional, residential treatment facility which

21:10:06 includes drug and alcohol care.

21:10:12 And that we would be willing to agree since we have seven

21:10:14 parking spaces, seven employees.

21:10:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: When you don't have a guest.














21:10:24 >> At this stage, Mr. Browne, it will only be him there,

21:10:25 just one.

21:10:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I know.

21:10:29 >> I understand your concern if it is sold, but it is hard

21:10:33 -- it is difficult to establish a number when we are not

21:10:35 certain what it is going to be used for.

21:10:37 So I thought that would be fair.

21:10:38 Between 6 and 7.

21:10:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I asked for your number, thank you.

21:10:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda.

21:10:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I am going to turn -- everything is

21:10:50 different, but if you look at something -- turn this thing

21:10:53 around and say that the house was there and the apartment

21:10:56 complex was not.

21:10:59 Two-story complex.

21:11:03 People who owned the house might say, oh, I don't want

21:11:05 that two-story complex there because they will look down

21:11:08 the backs of my house out of a second-story window.

21:11:11 Well you are not -- for the last three months I moved out

21:11:13 of my house for various reasons and I am living in a

21:11:16 two-story beautiful home.

21:11:22 I have yet to look out the back door or the back window.

21:11:25 I don't know who -- in case it was the other way around,

21:11:26 why you look down.

21:11:30 You think somebody will spend all day looking out a window














21:11:32 from this house -- you know what I am trying to say, just

21:11:35 the opposite of what we hear a lot of zonings.

21:11:39 So I am telling myself -- let me understand what I heard.

21:11:43 We got a residential property, and you got a Commercial

21:11:47 property R&D both of them have been living together for a

21:11:47 long time.

21:11:50 In a peaceful situation.

21:11:55 You can have that same residential property and have a

21:12:00 father, a mother, and six teenager, and you have eight

21:12:03 cars.

21:12:05 I am experiencing that where I am at now.

21:12:06 I have five cars.

21:12:08 So I am not trying to make a joke out of it.

21:12:10 That's the facts of life.

21:12:15 If there was a -- a living facility, you would have no

21:12:18 cars other than one or two persons who come to help those

21:12:20 people who need the help.

21:12:21 So what are we doing.

21:12:23 I am telling you the truth.

21:12:25 Some of you are saying he is crazy.

21:12:27 No, I am telling you the truth.

21:12:30 >> We would prefer to have no restriction on the size

21:12:33 other than the structure itself which is 2,000 square

21:12:35 feet.

21:12:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I am not disagreeing --














21:12:40 >> We will agree to the signage restriction and the

21:12:42 restriction on no drug and alcohol treatment.

21:12:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's fine.

21:12:44 [Inaudible]

21:12:48 >> I did but Mr. Miranda is questioning that.

21:12:50 We prefer not to have it.

21:12:52 I didn't offer it but I agreed to it.

21:12:55 Well, there is a big difference if you were saying -- if

21:12:58 you caucus with your client and say if they agree to it.

21:13:03 I don't -- if I am put in a position where it is going to

21:13:06 mean that it may not move forward, then, of course, I am

21:13:09 going to agree to it, but we prefer not to have it.

21:13:11 We didn't propose it.

21:13:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I was looking for something reasonable

21:13:13 --

21:13:13 [Inaudible]

21:13:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions from Council?

21:13:27 Okay.

21:13:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to close.

21:13:30 >> Second.

21:13:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.

21:13:37 >> Council, I am sorry, but I just wanted a clarification

21:13:40 with regard to the conditions that will be placed on the

21:13:43 site plan between first and second reading.

21:13:45 I know there has been a lot of negotiation going on.














21:13:49 But for the sake of the record and for the sake of Land

21:13:51 Development, I would ask for clarity on what has been

21:14:00 decided.

21:14:06 >> Tawanda Anthony of Land Development.

21:14:09 The two provisions should not include professional

21:14:15 residential facility, which includes drugs and alcohol and

21:14:22 provision for the signage to be restricted to RO-1 signage

21:14:27 standards.

21:14:28 Thank you.

21:14:31 >> That is in addition to the change sheet revision.

21:14:32 >> Yes.

21:14:38 >> Thank you.

21:14:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do we have a motion?

21:14:42 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, an ordinance rezoning

21:14:48 property in the general vicinity of 310 South Habana in

21:14:49 the City of Tampa, Florida.

21:14:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

21:14:55 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: From zoning classification RM-16,

21:14:57 residential multifamily to PD, planned development,

21:15:01 business professional office, single family, single

21:15:05 detached congregate living facility six or fewer, day

21:15:08 care, nursery, retail sales, specialty goods providing

21:15:10 effective date --

21:15:14 >> No, I think we have a substitute.

21:15:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: A substitute ordinance.














21:15:30 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: so excluding nursery --

21:15:32 >>JULIA COLE: I apologize.

21:15:34 When we prepared the ordinance we didn't take the unit to

21:15:36 remove that from the actual title.

21:15:39 I am actually going to strike it on my version.

21:15:42 When you read the title you are reading the correct title.

21:15:44 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: What are we striking.

21:15:48 >> Day care nursery, retail sales and specialty goods and

21:15:50 I will give a copy with the ordinance of the corrected

21:15:53 title I have stricken the terms to the Clerk.

21:15:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: As well as the sheet supplied by staff in

21:15:58 moving the items from the ordinance.

21:16:02 And that will be a part of the record.

21:16:07 And the motion along with the addition chance

21:16:10 commissioners read into the record as well.

21:16:14 >> Mr. Caetano, if you could take -- Mr. Caetano, you can

21:16:17 take it from the point that you had the uses unless you

21:16:20 want to read it from its entirety.

21:16:25 Why don't you just read it in its entirety.

21:16:27 Kate thank you, an ordinance rezoning --

21:16:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I don't understand why we have to reread

21:16:31 it.

21:16:33 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Striking --

21:16:35 >> There statutes.

21:16:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You got to reread it?














21:16:40 >> A statutory requirement.

21:16:43 >> Ordinance rezoning property 310 South Habana Avenue in

21:16:45 the City of Tampa, Florida, and more particularly

21:16:49 described in section 1 from zoning district classification

21:16:53 RM-16, residential multifamily to PD planned development,

21:16:56 business professional office, single family, semi

21:16:59 detached, congregate living facility, providing an

21:17:04 effective date.

21:17:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

21:17:10 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: After a facility six and fewer and

21:17:13 we strike out day care nursery, retail sales, specialty

21:17:13 goods.

21:17:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And an attachment again --

21:17:18 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: To the supplement sheet.

21:17:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Supplement sheet and other conditions

21:17:22 read into the record.

21:17:24 >>JULIA COLE: Attached and for the purposes of the

21:17:26 record, you have received a copy of the ordinance which

21:17:29 has the statements as stricken.

21:17:33 I will be providing a cleaned-up version of that ordinance

21:17:34 for second reading.

21:17:34 Thank you.

21:17:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.

21:17:38 All in favor signify by saying aye.

21:17:39 Opposes.














21:17:42 >> Motion carries with Miller and Mulhern being absent.

21:17:45 Second reading and adoption on February 18 at 9:30 A.M.

21:17:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Number 3.

21:18:39 >> Petition number Z1001.

21:18:44 Property address 4920 East Busch Boulevard petition to

21:18:50 rezone from RM-24 residential multifamily to cg Commercial

21:18:50 general.

21:18:54 Again my name is Tawanda Anthony, Land Development

21:18:55 Coordination.

21:19:01 Tony Garcia will take over with the Planning Commission.

21:19:09 >>TONY GARCIA: Tony Garcia, Planning Commission staff.

21:19:16 I have been sworn in.

21:19:18 The proposed request is located as far as the planning

21:19:20 district within the university district.

21:19:24 I have the vision map up there so you can see the

21:19:24 University district.

21:19:27 Also one of the areas in addition to the central district

21:19:31 and the Westshore district that are basically three of the

21:19:34 five districts we have on the vision maps that we are

21:19:38 focusing to address in direct growth and opportunity in

21:19:43 the City of Tampa.

21:19:51 Let me go ahead and show you the future us will category.

21:19:54 That has been changed -- subject to the plan amendment

21:19:56 that came before this Council and subsequently approved

21:19:57 it.














21:20:01 And the reason for that.

21:20:07 Let me show you this bigger one there.

21:20:11 That R-20 category has part of a building on it.

21:20:15 The land use change was basically done to recognize the

21:20:22 building that is there, because technically the building

21:20:25 is not currently -- was not allowed under that current

21:20:26 land use category.

21:20:30 Subsequently the plan amendment was in front of this body

21:20:33 and approved to allow the CMU-35.

21:20:40 So this pink color has basically been extended all the way

21:20:44 up to include this parcel, adequately reflecting the --

21:20:48 the access to that -- to that particular warehouse on the

21:20:54 northern side.

21:20:58 Now the applicant for the PD to recognize the entire

21:21:01 building site and bring it into conformity.

21:21:02 Planning Commission staff finds the proposed request based

21:21:06 on technical requests consistent with the comprehensive

21:21:09 plan.

21:21:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.

21:21:17 >> Tawanda Anthony, Land Development Coordination.

21:21:21 As Tony stated, this is a rezoning from R-24 residential

21:21:24 multifamily to cg, commercial general, the petitioner is

21:21:27 proposing to rezone the property to build an existing

21:21:31 shopping -- bring an existing shopping center into zoning

21:21:31 compliance.














21:21:34 Based on the nature of this request, no waivers will be

21:21:37 granted and development must adhere to all applicable City

21:21:39 of Tampa Land Development regulation at time of

21:21:43 permitting.

21:21:46 Here is the zoning atlas.

21:21:51 As you see, the property is here hatched in green.

21:21:58 It is bordered by temple heights to the north, to the east

21:22:04 and Busch to the South.

21:22:08 To the rear of the property and cg uses are here along

21:22:11 Busch Boulevard and this is the big lots shopping plaza.

21:22:18 Here is the PD here with also more Commercial uses.

21:22:22 This is the rear of the property that -- for the zoning

21:22:28 request to come into compliance.

21:22:32 The rear of the property is abutting residential

21:22:41 multifamily to the north.

21:22:43 The development review committee has reviewed the

21:22:46 petition.

21:22:49 Council, we find the petition consistent with the City of

21:22:54 Tampa Land Development code.

21:22:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions by Council?

21:22:57 >> Thank you.

21:22:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner.

21:23:03 >> Chairman, members of the City Council.

21:23:05 One City Tampa Center.

21:23:09 Was here last year fixing a plan amendment.














21:23:13 Other than Tony's map that scared the heck out of me

21:23:15 because it wasn't accurate.

21:23:19 It is the proper comp plan and bringing in conformance

21:23:22 that allows the shopping center.

21:23:24 I don't believe there is anyone in attendance this

21:23:26 evening.

21:23:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here wish to speak to this

21:23:28 petition?

21:23:32 Anyone from the public wish to address Council on this

21:23:33 petition?

21:23:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Close.

21:23:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

21:23:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: He gets the award tonight.

21:23:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

21:23:45 Mr. Chairman, move an ordinance rezoning property in the

21:23:49 general vicinity of 4920 east Busch Boulevard in the City

21:23:52 of Tampa more particularly prescribed classification

21:23:57 RM-24, residential multifamily to cg Commercial general

21:24:01 providing an effective date.

21:24:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

21:24:04 Seconded by Councilman Dingfelder.

21:24:06 All in favor signify by saying aye.

21:24:09 Opposed.

21:24:12 >> Motion carries with Miller and Mulhern being absent.

21:24:15 Second reading and adoption on February 18 at 9:30 A.M.














21:24:23 >> Mr. Chairman.

21:24:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.

21:24:25 >> If I can.

21:24:29 Number 6 is a -- an alcoholic beverage special use that is

21:24:33 related to the property; however, these are separate items

21:24:38 and I ask that they not be joined in any way or confused

21:24:39 in any way.

21:24:43 That you take number 5 separately.

21:24:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, sir.

21:24:52 You are the attorney.

21:25:02 All right.

21:25:05 >>ABBYE FEELEY, Abbye Feeley, Land Development

21:25:05 Coordination.

21:25:15 The last at 905, and 6811 the request is from CI

21:25:18 Commercial intensive to PD, planned development retail

21:25:25 sales, pharmacy.

21:25:31 Mr. Garcia.

21:25:33 >>TONY GARCIA: Tony Garcia, Planning Commission staff.

21:25:39 I have been sworn in.

21:25:42 On the vision map, as far as the districts are concerned,

21:25:46 there is located within the central district.

21:25:49 The central district is one of the three districts where

21:25:51 we talked about redirecting growth and development which

21:25:53 is what we are talking about here tonight.

21:25:57 Redevelopment of -- a corner that has existing use on it














21:26:01 for the purpose of a general technical, a general use

21:26:05 within the CI zoning district which will go to a PD now.

21:26:08 We have two different land use categories on this site.

21:26:14 You have cg-35 and residential 10.

21:26:20 There is the aerial of the site that you can see.

21:26:24 Located within the Seminole Heights -- greater Seminole

21:26:24 Heights.

21:26:26 The greater Seminole Heights area because it is

21:26:29 represented by three neighborhood associations in is a

21:26:31 historic area.

21:26:35 Seminole Heights has been around since the early 1900s in

21:26:36 consistent variety of different uses.

21:26:39 The interesting thing about Seminole Heights is it is

21:26:43 bisected by a variety of arterial roads as you can see

21:26:44 right here on this corner.

21:26:46 You are looking at the corner of an intersection that

21:26:50 meets on two arterial roads, Sligh Avenue and Hillsborough

21:26:53 Avenue where you have a significant amount of automotive

21:27:00 activity.

21:27:00 Hillsborough.

21:27:01 Did I say Hillsborough?

21:27:03 Well, Hillsborough got a lot of traffic too.

21:27:05 [Laughter]

21:27:11 How about Nebraska and Sligh, how is that.

21:27:16 The point is -- the point is, they are both arterial roads














21:27:20 and both generate a lot of vehicular traffic during the

21:27:21 course of a day.

21:27:24 As far as the character of Seminole Heights, we know that

21:27:26 Seminole Heights is one of the original urban

21:27:28 neighborhoods in the City of Tampa established before in

21:27:30 the early 1900s.

21:27:33 What we have here this evening is an interesting type of

21:27:35 dichotomy.

21:27:37 We have a use that is coming in that will basically

21:27:40 promote some type of economic development for the area

21:27:43 even though you have an existing use on the site.

21:27:46 Conversely, what we have here also is a neighborhood that

21:27:49 has been struggling to try to revitalize its Commercial

21:27:54 corridors for the last ten years at least.

21:27:56 There has been quite a cities am between the residential

21:27:58 people who live in this community and the Commercial

21:28:01 people trying to make a living on a daily basis, and there

21:28:04 has been dialogue that has occurred at least over the last

21:28:08 seven or eight years I have been intimately involved with

21:28:13 this particular neighborhood.

21:28:15 You have before you now a new comprehensive plan that has

21:28:18 teeth as it relates to urban design and that is the crux

21:28:20 of the argument we are looking at this evening.

21:28:24 What is being proposed to you tonight is good for economic

21:28:29 development for the corridor but not good for the overall














21:28:31 type of vision that the people have in the community of

21:28:35 Seminole Heights, that the leadership has been striving

21:28:38 for and fighting for for these many years.

21:28:41 We have an urban design outline now within our

21:28:43 comprehensive plan that let's us address situations such

21:28:44 as this.

21:28:49 Seminole heights is an urban village and defined as such

21:28:51 in the comprehensive plan because it has unique

21:28:54 characteristics that allow it to be defined as such and

21:28:58 also within an area known as a mixed use corridor village,

21:29:03 which has certain arterial roads that demonstrate certain

21:29:04 type of character.

21:29:07 We have urban design guidelines now that are basically

21:29:12 there to protect and help to promote the revitalization of

21:29:18 that character for these particular unique neighborhoods.

21:29:21 As far as the request is concerned over here, what you

21:29:27 really have is a suburban type of design in what we just

21:29:30 characterized in your comprehensive plans plan as an urban

21:29:30 village.

21:29:32 It is an urban village.

21:29:35 What you have presented to you this evening is suburban in

21:29:36 design.

21:29:38 So the decision before you this evening will be will you

21:29:42 allow suburban development to continue in an urban village

21:29:45 even though you have urban design guidelines in your














21:29:47 comprehensive plan now that discourage it.

21:29:49 And this is inconsistent with.

21:29:52 Which is why we are going to find this inconsistent,

21:29:55 because exactly of that particular issue, you have a

21:30:00 suburban design in an urban environment approximately if

21:30:04 you look at your report on the last page, you will be able

21:30:09 to see that you have -- form guidelines.

21:30:12 And in those form guidelines, buildings that need to be

21:30:15 sided up to the corridor to create a consistent street

21:30:17 rule and entrances across the street and parking located

21:30:21 to the side and behind buildings accommodated in parking

21:30:28 structures.

21:30:31 So what you have before you tonight if you go ahead

21:30:35 approve this, it will pretty much be business as usual as

21:30:38 far as just approving a Commercial type of use on these

21:30:39 type of corridors.

21:30:40 So it is not going to be any different.

21:30:43 The big difference though is what we are trying to

21:30:45 establish over here is that you do have a comprehensive

21:30:49 plan that everyone has worked for, to try to make sure

21:30:53 that we can -- one of the basic tenants is to preserve the

21:30:55 historic character for urban districts.

21:31:01 You have two historic districts designated in the Seminole

21:31:02 Heights area.

21:31:04 And I understand the dilemma that some of the residents














21:31:07 and leaders within the Seminole Heights area has regarding

21:31:11 this and would like to see revitalization, Commercial

21:31:14 revitalization, but at what cost do you allow Commercial

21:31:17 revitalization to come into your area?

21:31:20 To have it come in just for the sake of coming in.

21:31:24 Or to be true to yourself and what you have fought for for

21:31:25 all these years.

21:31:28 So the use as far as the use itself allowed under the

21:31:32 cc-35, the design guidelines are entirely compatible with

21:31:35 what you have in your urban design guidelines in the

21:31:36 comprehensive plan.

21:31:39 Based on that weight, we are going with the finding of

21:31:42 inconsistency with this particular case.

21:31:44 And that's our recommendation.

21:31:48 Thank you.

21:31:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.

21:31:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Tony, you may want to leave that up

21:31:54 for a second.

21:31:59 The form guidelines that we adopted last year and I assume

21:32:02 that they are legally applicable.

21:32:06 Which form guidelines are you referring to.

21:32:10 >> The ones you have up on the screen.

21:32:12 >> The comp plan or city code.

21:32:16 >> I assume this is the comp plan.

21:32:18 >> The comp plan, that's correct.














21:32:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What sort of things could they have

21:32:30 done from -- from a design or a urban character

21:32:36 perspective that might have convinced you to find it

21:32:36 consistent.

21:32:39 And I guess one of the things that I am sitting here

21:32:47 reading here is in looking at the site plan, looks like

21:32:52 the CVS at Swann and Howard where you have parking on

21:33:00 Howard and then the store as opposed to here the comp plan

21:33:04 is suggesting that we pull these up to the sidewalk and

21:33:07 have parking in the rear.

21:33:07 >>.

21:33:08 >>TONY GARCIA: Correct.

21:33:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Would that be one of the things you

21:33:11 are suggesting.

21:33:13 >>TONY GARCIA: Kind of funny you bring that up on Swann

21:33:16 and Howard and another bone of contention.

21:33:18 When it was built out there, I don't think it is what the

21:33:21 people wanted to see built out there initially, as well as

21:33:26 the -- I think adjacent residential use probably on the --

21:33:29 across the street which was also suburban in character

21:33:30 that was built there.

21:33:33 It's kind of like you have something that is really urban

21:33:36 in character which is the Panera across the street if you

21:33:38 want to talk about designs.

21:33:41 That is the kind of example you would like to have on the














21:33:44 corner for an urban neighborhood, which is that particular

21:33:46 southwest corner.

21:33:50 The CVS that you are describing in Soho.

21:33:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Your form guidelines speak to a mixed

21:33:53 use.

21:33:56 Are you necessarily suggesting that if they didn't provide

21:34:02 a mixed use that you -- a lot of double negatives, that

21:34:03 you wouldn't find.

21:34:07 >>TONY GARCIA: Those are a lot of double negatives.

21:34:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Triple negatives.

21:34:12 >>TONY GARCIA: Coming in for a PD.

21:34:14 We have allowed cg many times.

21:34:17 What this does is encourage a mixture of uses to allow for

21:34:22 more compatible and compact development in the vertical

21:34:23 integration of uses.

21:34:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But not to say that a developer can't

21:34:27 have a single use.

21:34:28 >>TONY GARCIA: Correct.

21:34:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: All right, thank you.

21:34:33 >>TONY GARCIA: As far as your other questions asking

21:34:38 about design, Mr. Callahan from the urban design for the

21:34:41 City of Tampa will elaborate that.

21:34:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda.

21:34:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Since you are talking about the CVS

21:34:48 Swann and Howard.














21:34:51 What was there long time ago.

21:34:52 >> Hardware store.

21:34:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: What was next to the hardware store.

21:35:00 A horse and stable that belonged to the Fontay family.

21:35:03 What we are saying is see how we progress and we really

21:35:06 don't go forward too often.

21:35:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.

21:35:17 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Good evening, Council, Abbye Feeley, Land

21:35:18 Development Coordination.

21:35:21 To return -- kind of odd this new format.

21:35:25 As Tony mentioned, the request this evening is from CI

21:35:28 Commercial intensive to PD, planned development retail

21:35:29 sales pharmacy.

21:35:31 There are seven waivers associated with the request this

21:35:33 evening, and I would like to go through those waivers and

21:35:38 then I will give you my photo presentation and then return

21:35:39 to the staff report.

21:35:43 The first waiver is to allow for the removal of one

21:35:47 40-inch nonhazardous grand tree.

21:35:51 And let me just mention on this that this is a 2.79-acre

21:35:51 site.

21:35:55 When I am going through all these waivers, I didn't

21:35:56 mention that.

21:35:58 2.79-acre site.

21:36:01 The first is to allow for one 40-inch nonhazardous grand














21:36:05 tree, the second to remove three hazardous grand trees,

21:36:09 39-inch, 44-inch, and a 45-inch.

21:36:11 The third is to increase the percentage of trees removed

21:36:14 from the site from 50% to 75%.

21:36:17 The fourth is to reduce a portion of the required north

21:36:20 vehicle use area buffer adjacent to Sligh Avenue

21:36:24 right-of-way from 8 foot to 7 foot, adjacent to the

21:36:28 proposed bus stop and shelter, and associated waiver of

21:36:32 170 square feet of green space would be assessed at the

21:36:33 time of permitting.

21:36:37 The fifth is to reduce the required buffer from 15 feet

21:36:42 with a six-foot masonry wall to 16 feet with a six-foot

21:36:46 PVC fence along the east and southern border adjacent to

21:36:47 residential zoning.

21:36:50 The sixth is to reduce a portion of the northern drive

21:36:53 aisle with the 39-inch grand tree from 26 feet to 24 feet

21:36:57 and the last is to reduce the required loading berth from

21:37:06 two to one.

21:37:09 I didn't show you the zoning atlas.

21:37:10 Site shown here in green.

21:37:13 Tony mentioned.

21:37:14 Nebraska to the west.

21:37:15 Sligh to the north.

21:37:17 There is Commercial general in this spot here.

21:37:21 Everything is CI up the Nebraska corridor and you can see














21:37:22 that red line.

21:37:25 And it is a little thinner north of Sligh.

21:37:35 And you do have abutting residential in this area.

21:37:39 It permits the drive-in window toward SU-1 which would be

21:37:42 an administrative process but given the amount of waivers

21:37:45 put on this request this evening, that's why they have to

21:37:48 go to a PD in order to accommodate that because they

21:37:51 couldn't get that through the special use 1.

21:37:54 Aerial of the site, and you see a lot of the tree coverage

21:37:56 on there.

21:37:58 Nebraska to the west.

21:38:00 Sligh to the north.

21:38:02 There is a funeral home here.

21:38:03 A gas station here.

21:38:05 Car lot here.

21:38:10 Another car lot on the site, and some heavier Commercial

21:38:11 use in the back here.

21:38:20 Show you a couple of pictures.

21:38:24 Also I brought Mary's pictures of the trees with me and

21:38:26 Dave riley is here to speak on that matter as well.

21:38:36 This is a view of the existing site.

21:38:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Back when I couldn't get financed.

21:38:45 >> Looking east on Sligh.

21:38:49 This is the bp station to the north of the site.

21:38:54 This is immediately across Nebraska to the west looking














21:38:58 down Nebraska.

21:39:04 This is the back portion of the existing site.

21:39:07 This is looking South as well.

21:39:18 This is across the site from the site across Nebraska.

21:39:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can the car lot legal.

21:39:23 The existing car lot.

21:39:31 >> The CI.

21:39:33 The petitioner is proposing to rezone the property to

21:39:39 construct the 13,189-square-foot retail store with

21:39:42 pharmacy, drive-in window.

21:39:44 2.79-acre site.

21:39:48 Proposing full access on both Nebraska and Sligh Avenues.

21:39:54 The proposed project consists of a single-story single

21:39:56 building 30-foot in height.

21:39:59 The site is currently located the southeast corner of the

21:40:01 intersection of Sligh and Nebraska.

21:40:04 Uses surrounding it, I just went over those.

21:40:07 The PD the setbacks are as follows.

21:40:09 North 121 feet.

21:40:10 South, 72 feet.

21:40:12 West, 60 feet.

21:40:14 East, 288 feet.

21:40:19 The project requires 53 parking spaces and 68 spaces are

21:40:23 being provided.

21:40:26 I would like to take a few minutes and go through the fact














21:40:29 finding on this petition.

21:40:35 As Land Development Coordination is finding this petition

21:40:38 inconsistent with the comp plan and PD criteria.

21:40:42 Urban design coordination -- urban design coordinator Mr.

21:40:46 Callahan reviewed this and also finding this inconsistent.

21:40:49 Mary tree and landscape is finding this inconsistent.

21:40:53 And parks and recreation and natural resources Mr. Riley

21:40:57 is here and also finding this application inconsistent.

21:41:00 Would like to go back and go through my findings of

21:41:02 inconsistency.

21:41:06 As you will notice on the front page of the report, these

21:41:09 are not inconsistencies that can be rectified before first

21:41:13 and second reading and be revised to address what has been

21:41:14 brought up this evening.

21:41:15 I would like to briefly go through.

21:41:20 The site under its current land use could have a far

21:41:24 potential of 2 which would get it at 219,000 square feet

21:41:29 which you will see in my staff report.

21:41:30 On page 5.

21:41:34 What is being proposed is 13,000 square feet or roughly 6%

21:41:39 of the redevelopment potential that could be on this site.

21:41:42 First PD criteria talks about this efficient use of land

21:41:44 and infrastructure.

21:41:48 Staff finds that the proposed development is definitely an

21:41:51 insufficient use of land in relation to the development














21:41:54 potential that could be approved on this site.

21:41:56 It is funny, Council, we bring a lot of developments to

21:41:59 you and everybody says we have suburban code.

21:42:00 We have a suburban code.

21:42:01 We have a suburban code.

21:42:04 Here is a suburban project coming before you this evening

21:42:08 with seven waivers, to a code that is supposed to be

21:42:10 suburban.

21:42:15 They are asking for 78% tree removal and 2.79-acre site.

21:42:18 As you know from all the rezonings that we do, we don't

21:42:22 get a lot of 2.79-acre sites in the heart of the city for

21:42:22 redevelopment.

21:42:24 This is a large opportunity.

21:42:29 And a PD which allows for flexibility, design ingenuity,

21:42:32 could allow this to be a lot more than what it is before

21:42:36 you this evening at a far greater potential and it is not.

21:42:40 And staff cannot support that.

21:42:44 Want to make sure that I do cover everything.

21:42:48 In addition to comprehensive plan amounts, policies,

21:42:53 goals, objectives that Tony brought up, I would like to go

21:42:57 back just through a few of them, specifically on page 4 of

21:42:58 your staff report.

21:43:02 Policy 16.1.9 talks about redevelopment.

21:43:05 The city shall promote redevelopment patterns and

21:43:08 streetscape improvements that transform the visual and














21:43:10 physical character of these corridors by the following

21:43:12 methods.

21:43:14 Put buildings close to the sidewalks.

21:43:16 This will create a consistent street wall.

21:43:19 Will allow through traffic to see shops and make it

21:43:22 interesting for people to walk through the corridor.

21:43:25 Introduce taller buildings consistent with the underlying

21:43:28 plan category, consider placing parking in the rear of the

21:43:29 building.

21:43:32 Create an attractive front and rear facade and entry for

21:43:33 pedestrians.

21:43:36 Create pedestrian pathways between the uses and the

21:43:38 corridor and the neighborhoods behind.

21:43:40 If I can stop on that for just a minute.

21:43:44 When I went over the PD setbacks, the PD setbacks to this

21:43:50 building off of Sligh and Nebraska is 120 feet off -- is

21:43:55 121 feet off of Sligh and 60 feet off of Nebraska.

21:43:59 This site is serviced by HART route number 2, the highest

21:44:05 ridership of HART's line in the entire network and the

21:44:08 building is being set back 60 feet off of Nebraska which

21:44:10 is currently serviced by this route.

21:44:14 We talked about transit-oriented development.

21:44:15 We talked about sustainable.

21:44:17 We talked about the opportunities to create a livable city

21:44:20 and this opportunity is before us tonight.














21:44:22 This is a hard policy decision for you.

21:44:25 It may not be a hard one, but this is the first

21:44:27 development of this kind under the new comprehensive plan

21:44:31 that now has design elements in it that can promote a

21:44:34 different type of development than what we have seen in

21:44:40 this city in the past years.

21:44:43 Somebody said tonight about a car park.

21:44:50 I did mention that this site requires 53 spaces.

21:44:54 58 spaces and 15 spaces above what they are required.

21:44:57 Just wanted to go back and bring that --

21:45:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Maybe just parking when the light rail

21:45:02 coming.

21:45:02 >> Maybe.

21:45:05 I would like to go through the PD criteria if I may.

21:45:09 I also wanted to mention that the -- that Sligh and

21:45:13 Nebraska were designated in the new comprehensive plan as

21:45:14 gateways.

21:45:16 Potential gateways to the city, corridors for

21:45:18 redevelopment.

21:45:23 This is part of the urban village.

21:45:26 Mixed use -- it is part of a mixed use corridor of

21:45:29 villages as designated and page 5 of my staff report,

21:45:33 policy 18.5.2 of the comprehensive plan talks about

21:45:36 focusing initiatives and design controls on private

21:45:40 developing -- development fronting major new, existing and














21:45:44 historic corridors including parkways, Boulevards, and

21:45:47 avenues citywide, specifically recognize and address

21:45:53 significant intersections and gateway to the city Sligh

21:45:57 and Nebraska have both been identified as those potential

21:45:59 gateways.

21:46:02 My last paragraph there talks about location in Seminole

21:46:05 Heights at the intersection of sly and Nebraska.

21:46:08 This area and associated roadway have been identified as

21:46:10 urban village.

21:46:11 A transit corridor.

21:46:16 Mixed use village, potential scenic corridor and gateway

21:46:19 by the City of Tampa comprehensive plan.

21:46:21 The proposed redevelopment of the property does not

21:46:26 support nor promote the city's long-range vision and the

21:46:29 associated comprehensive plan goals, object sieves and

21:46:34 policies to promote a livable community.

21:46:39 If I could just go through the PD criteria on pages 6 and

21:46:44 7 of my report briefly, and then I will turn over to Mr.

21:46:44 Callahan.

21:46:49 The first of the PD criteria -- first of all, the PD

21:46:52 purpose, full read that back on page 5.

21:46:55 PDs talk about unique circumstances.

21:46:58 And we have been here many a night trying to squeeze the

21:47:01 biggest box into the tiniest piece of property.

21:47:06 It is amazing what we have put on 50 x 100 lots or 100 x














21:47:07 100 lots.

21:47:09 We are talking about 2.79 acres tonight.

21:47:14 That is a very large lot for us in the City of Tampa.

21:47:16 It talks about unique conditions.

21:47:18 Ability to allow design, flexibility and the integration

21:47:19 of uses.

21:47:22 This is a single use.

21:47:24 Single building.

21:47:30 One story on a huge piece of property.

21:47:33 It is very hard for me to find where it is meeting an

21:47:36 unique condition or unique characteristic or the purpose

21:47:39 behind why we have a PD to allow for this design

21:47:42 flexibility.

21:47:45 Promoting the efficient and sustainable use of land and

21:47:47 infrastructure with careful consideration of potential

21:47:49 adverse impact to on-site natural elements.

21:47:52 I would like to stop right there.

21:47:55 Impact to on-site natural elements.

21:47:56 The trees.

21:48:01 They are asking for the removal of a very healthy 40-inch

21:48:01 grand tree.

21:48:05 They are asking for the removal of 78% of their trees.

21:48:08 And any site over an acre in the City of Tampa is required

21:48:12 to retain 50% of the trees.

21:48:15 They have got close to 3 acres and they are asking for














21:48:19 removal of 78% of the trees.

21:48:23 This also goes back to the efficient and sustainable use

21:48:25 of land and infrastructure.

21:48:27 That is where I mentioned to you about 6% of the

21:48:30 development potential of what could potentially be on this

21:48:31 site.

21:48:38 Removal of the grand trees.

21:48:42 PD purpose, item number 2, to allow the integration of

21:48:44 different land uses and densities in one development that

21:48:48 would not -- otherwise not be provided by a traditional

21:48:52 zoning district in a single-use, single building and not a

21:48:56 mix of uses or increased densities.

21:49:00 On your number 4 where it says acknowledge changing needs.

21:49:04 Technologies, economics and consumer preferences allowing

21:49:08 for ingenuity and planning in the imagination of

21:49:11 relatively large tracks under large controls.

21:49:17 This is rather large tract in the city, 2.79 acres, two

21:49:18 major arterials.

21:49:23 As you may know, form base code was at sore Seminole

21:49:27 Heights and it passed unanimously and will come back to

21:49:27 you.

21:49:30 We worked hard with this neighborhood over the past two

21:49:32 years to identify the vision for this area and this vision

21:49:36 for this note is actually a major community node at the

21:49:39 intersection of Sligh and Nebraska.














21:49:42 Number 7 talks about promoting a more desirable living and

21:49:45 working environment that would otherwise be possible

21:49:47 through the strict application, minimum requirements of

21:49:49 other zoning districts.

21:49:53 The development potential on this property again single

21:49:56 use, single buildings.

21:49:59 Number 8 talks about the architectural features and

21:49:59 elements.

21:50:03 I will let Mr. Callahan speak to that because I think I

21:50:05 have already talked to a number of the issues.

21:50:07 Mary unfortunately not here this evening.

21:50:10 Her mother passed away this morning.

21:50:14 She has worked very diligently with the petitioner.

21:50:17 We tried to get certain things moved around.

21:50:21 I do want to talk about that for a couple of minutes.

21:50:24 She is objecting to the removal of more than the 50% of

21:50:29 the trees saying this is not in -- meaning the intent of

21:50:33 chapter 13 which is our tree and landscape code and lastly

21:50:35 again parks and recreation.

21:50:40 The removal of the nonhazardous tree and the plan needs to

21:50:42 meet the protected zone.

21:50:44 This has been a long journey.

21:50:46 We have worked with the petitioner on this case many,

21:50:49 many, many meetings, the building started in a whole

21:50:52 different direction than what you see tonight and it has














21:50:53 gotten better.

21:50:57 It is not the best that it could be before you tonight.

21:51:00 If we allow this redevelopment to happen on this site at

21:51:02 the 13,000 which is 6%.

21:51:05 That is 6% going to be there for a very, very, very long

21:51:09 time.

21:51:12 The community has been work thong for long-range vision

21:51:13 for the area.

21:51:16 The city has been working on long-range vision for this

21:51:18 area with the adoption of the comprehensive plan.

21:51:21 Staff cannot support the petition that is before you this

21:51:25 evening.

21:51:30 >> Mr. Chairman, Councilmembers, Mike Callahan, urban

21:51:31 design coordinator.

21:51:34 You know I don't get many chances to come up before -- in

21:51:36 fact I think this is the first time.

21:51:37 So it is a delight to do that.

21:51:40 I want to talk to you tonight about a very important

21:51:43 rezoning for the Seminole Heights community.

21:51:46 And why is it important? It is worn because it tells the

21:51:53 community that we are here to protect and implement the

21:51:56 plan they work so hard over the years crafting and this is

21:51:57 a very important site.

21:52:00 This is an important site for that plan.

21:52:05 With the submission of this application depicting as Abby














21:52:09 said a single use suburban-style building surrounded by

21:52:12 pavement at the entry to the community.

21:52:16 It ignores our new comp plan, pure and simple.

21:52:19 It undermines the last two years of citizens' work and

21:52:22 staff, time, energy, taxpayer expense devoted to the

21:52:25 Seminole Heights vision plan, and specifically our

21:52:28 form-base code initiative which we are right in the middle

21:52:32 of and coming like a freight train.

21:52:35 The Seminole Heights community has a much better vision

21:52:38 for this corridor and I know that hopefully most of you

21:52:40 have driven down Nebraska.

21:52:42 It has come a long way over the last couple of years.

21:52:46 It is starting to develop some -- the roadway is much

21:52:47 improved.

21:52:51 But I would like to show if I could for a few minutes, how

21:52:54 this proposed plan does not mimic some of the newer and

21:52:59 historic fabric along Nebraska.

21:53:09 I think you are aware of the -- what I would like to point

21:53:11 out to you is just the relationship of just the building

21:53:12 to the street.

21:53:16 This is the church on the west side of Nebraska.

21:53:24 The deeper life ministries.

21:53:26 The state has a department of juvenile -- of juvenile

21:53:28 justice.

21:53:32 It is not the prettiest building in the world, but it














21:53:35 defines the street.

21:53:37 There is a restaurant.

21:53:43 If you haven't visited, I recommend it to you.

21:53:44 >> Are you paying?

21:53:45 [Laughter]

21:53:47 >> It is on the east side.

21:53:51 I think it is just South of the MLK intersection.

21:53:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is that a new building or rehab.

21:53:59 >> That's a rehab.

21:54:01 But it is also -- if you look at the relationship to the

21:54:08 street there again, it is along the Nebraska corridor.

21:54:14 We have remnant of back strip which again look at the

21:54:16 reels to the street.

21:54:17 A small diner in the strip.

21:54:22 Yes, it is only one story but remnant of what was there in

21:54:23 Nebraska.

21:54:26 There is a beautiful building that is in the throes of

21:54:28 restoration right now.

21:54:32 Still trying to find its -- its rightful owner.

21:54:35 It is -- it is I think a beautiful building and has great

21:54:42 potential for redevelopment there.

21:54:44 A mixed use building.

21:54:46 Certainly not the most beautiful building but office on

21:54:51 the bottom and residential on the top.

21:54:53 Even our beloved fire department recognized the need to














21:55:00 pull the building up to the street along Nebraska there.

21:55:01 So we have that example.

21:55:06 Do we know what the -- do we know what the form -- do we

21:55:09 know what this new application will look like, we

21:55:09 certainly do.

21:55:17 We have it on the corner of MLK and Nebraska as you can

21:55:17 see.

21:55:19 Look at the relationship between the building -- there is

21:55:22 no relationship between the building and the street.

21:55:27 You have to walk across the parking lot, and we have that

21:55:30 shot of looking Easterly.

21:55:32 And we also have another shot from the South look together

21:55:34 north.

21:55:39 And I would suggest to you that our applicant will do a

21:55:42 lot better than this and we have been working with him to

21:55:46 try and make him understand that this is possible.

21:55:51 As part of the urban design component, we are working

21:55:51 hard.

21:55:54 We are attempting to enhance the urban design standards

21:55:55 throughout our community.

21:55:58 This intersection as Abby noted a few minutes ago will be

21:56:04 identified as a community node that will be allowed to be

21:56:07 a urban village as seen in the Seminole Heights vision

21:56:08 plan map.

21:56:11 You saw this -- I think Tony put this up there and that














21:56:12 intersection.

21:56:18 This is a community Commercial 35 with a 2.0 far

21:56:22 allowable.

21:56:24 It is part of the urban village.

21:56:28 We are encouraging the applicants to pull buildings to the

21:56:31 street and enhance the public round.

21:56:34 To place parking beside or behind the building, create

21:56:40 enhanced pedestrian pathways, provide street trees, street

21:56:40 furniture.

21:56:44 Beyond the fact that this form of the development is

21:56:47 inappropriate for the Seminole Heights plan.

21:56:51 Developer is also leaving close to 90% of the site's

21:56:53 development potential on the table.

21:56:57 So what is -- what would be the preferable plan for this

21:57:00 based on what the Seminole Heights community has -- has

21:57:03 proffered and worked so hard.

21:57:09 Particular show you the site plan right now -- can I zoom

21:57:10 out a little bit.

21:57:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yeah, pull out.

21:57:27 As you can see, Abbye has different dimensions but 70 feet

21:57:29 off Nebraska side which is here.

21:57:33 We have 140 feet off the Sligh.

21:57:37 We have a proposed retention pond along the frontage of

21:57:39 Nebraska.

21:57:42 And then the building as you can see sits there.














21:57:47 We have the grand tree that parks department is so adamant

21:57:51 about keeping and I can understand that.

21:57:56 What I have done is proposed a realignment of the -- of

21:58:17 the development whereby -- do you see that?

21:58:23 Resite the building closer to the street.

21:58:25 How do I know it works.

21:58:31 It works because exactly what CVS did in St. Pete.

21:58:32 The exact site plan.

21:58:35 A little smaller building than what we are asking for now.

21:58:38 It is pulled up to the street.

21:58:41 There could be an arcade along Nebraska.

21:58:42 We moved the retention to the back.

21:58:46 The parking is as much if not more than what they need.

21:58:47 We saved the grand tree.

21:58:53 The provision, the same ingress, egress along Sligh and we

21:58:56 do move it a little north along Nebraska.

21:58:59 How do I know it is the same plan, well, for one, I went

21:59:00 out there and I measured it.

21:59:08 And this is what it looks like.

21:59:09 This is on 4th.

21:59:19 4th street and St. Petersburg in the garden district.

21:59:20 This was up one view --

21:59:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: When was that -- ballpark.

21:59:29 >> Within the last five, six, seven years.

21:59:30 Another view.














21:59:32 This -- this could be Nebraska and this could be Sligh.

21:59:37 But this -- this is 4th avenue and this is 9th street.

21:59:50 And you can see barely the drive-in on the back.

21:59:55 Their competitor, Walgreen's, is certainly not foreign

21:59:58 doing an urban style building.

22:00:02 I am not sure -- I pulled it out of the file and I can't

22:00:05 remember exactly where that is.

22:00:08 So I think we can do better than what they proposed.

22:00:10 We have tried to work with them, and I think -- I still

22:00:12 think that they would be amenable.

22:00:15 We are not against this development.

22:00:17 It is not no.

22:00:18 It's a work with us.

22:00:21 Work with the assistance of Seminole Heights.

22:00:26 I would ask -- as I -- as Abbye said, we find this

22:00:28 inconsistent with the future vision of the Seminole

22:00:31 Heights community and the Tampa Comprehensive Plan.

22:00:35 I would ask that you request that the applicant -- the

22:00:39 applicant work with us to devise and come up with a better

22:00:49 site plan in my presentation.

22:00:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner.

22:01:00 >> Good even, Councilmembers.

22:01:03 For the record Jim shimberg with who will LAN land and

22:01:04 knight.

22:01:07 100 North Tampa Street, representing CVS pharmacy and














22:01:09 Armstrong development.

22:01:13 And I would much rather be up here tonight with staff

22:01:17 saying this is perfect and everything -- in every way and

22:01:20 not have to waste your time, but unfortunately that is not

22:01:22 the situation we face, and so it will take us a little

22:01:23 time to go through this.

22:01:26 And I know the hour is late.

22:01:29 First thing that is important to recognize that the

22:01:31 existing zoning of CI on that property.

22:01:35 So, you know, you know what the existing uses are which is

22:01:39 a used car lot, the roofing company, four units of

22:01:41 transitional housing for metropolitan ministries and a

22:01:42 vacant home.

22:01:45 Adjacent to the site, we have a gas station, we have a

22:01:48 funeral home, auto sales, and vacant land.

22:01:53 This project has been about 30 months in the works.

22:01:56 The assemblage of the four parcels took a lot of time and

22:02:01 had something to do with the size of the property that we

22:02:03 are coming to you today with.

22:02:06 The process of working with staff as Abbye said, many,

22:02:09 many meetings with staff and the process of working with

22:02:11 the residents and the community groups in Seminole Heights

22:02:15 have been very extensive and I think you will hear a

22:02:18 little about that tonight when the public has a chance to

22:02:21 speak to the petition.














22:02:25 This projects a evolved a lot since the original site plan

22:02:29 which is rather typical CVS suburban design.

22:02:32 There have been a number changes that we believe has

22:02:35 greatly improved the application and reflect the design

22:02:39 that we believe is acceptable to the majority of the

22:02:44 community and has public support that you will hear.

22:02:48 One thing I think you just heard from city staff and from

22:02:57 -- is that mine -- yeah.

22:03:00 Okay -- what we seem to be hearing from city staff and

22:03:04 from the Planning Commission staff is that our project is

22:03:08 too small for this site and that they would prefer a

22:03:13 project ten times the size that they believe is more in

22:03:15 keeping with the vision with the redevelopment of this

22:03:17 area.

22:03:18 What I am going to try to explain to you tonight with the

22:03:22 help of some other people and some of the residents is

22:03:24 that we believe we have a project that is consistent with

22:03:27 the comprehensive plan and your Land Development code and

22:03:28 should be approved.

22:03:31 First, let me say to you that bringing any project to you

22:03:37 in this difficult economy is -- you know is not easy.

22:03:42 And I have been -- I stood before you for several great

22:03:44 projects that have been approved and still vacant lots and

22:03:48 have not been built, and that is not a good thing either.

22:03:51 This is a project that because of the financial strength














22:03:53 of the parties concerned and because of the approvals that

22:03:56 have already taken place at the highest Corporate levels

22:03:59 there are project will move forward immediately upon

22:04:03 approval.

22:04:06 Unfortunately, a larger mixed use site or design at this

22:04:10 location is just not financially feasible at this time.

22:04:12 And we only want to bring you something that is feasible

22:04:17 and is going to be able to go forward.

22:04:19 I would like to enter into the record a petition that was

22:04:22 signed by over 100 people supporting the probably.

22:04:28 And we will go ahead and give that to the Clerk.

22:04:31 Here is a map that show where some of the people live in

22:04:38 relation to the site.

22:04:47 In support of the project.

22:04:50 There are changes to the plan since originally submit.

22:04:54 In your book page 7 I will list those items specifically.

22:04:57 We reduced the number of parking spaces from the original

22:05:01 submittal and from the -- from the traditional CVS

22:05:02 prototype.

22:05:06 CVS.

22:05:08 Their Corporate requirements are that they are very

22:05:12 convenient, located parking and very ample parking for

22:05:14 their customers and that is what they do with the

22:05:15 location.

22:05:18 Additionally the site plan was changed to eliminate














22:05:22 parking along Nebraska and move the site -- the building

22:05:26 much closer to Nebraska Avenue.

22:05:29 We were also able to preserve more of the trees by moving

22:05:32 the building closer to Nebraska Avenue.

22:05:34 The application does still call for removal of one

22:05:37 nonhazardous grand tree and three grand trees that the

22:05:41 city staff agreed were hazardous; however, we will save a

22:05:46 total of five nonhazardous grand trees as well as grand

22:05:49 tree that is in the right away.

22:05:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Jim, in the absence of a Chairman I

22:05:55 will raise my hand and be recognized just for a second.

22:05:58 In life the hour, if we can cut -- sort of cut to the

22:06:01 chase, and I just read a lot of what you are saying.

22:06:03 It looks like y'all have made some really good

22:06:04 improvements.

22:06:06 It looks like you have some neighborhood support out there

22:06:10 and I am sure we are going to hear some opposition, but

22:06:13 when I looked at that time originally, you know, 15

22:06:18 minutes ago, and before -- when staff was getting going,

22:06:21 and then I looked at what Tony showed us we have done in

22:06:22 the comprehensive plan.

22:06:25 And I am sure you guys are well aware of it and has been

22:06:29 involved in this.

22:06:31 Is not a surprise we have these new type of guidelines in

22:06:32 Seminole Heights.














22:06:35 I looked at it and said why don't we turn it sideways and

22:06:39 turn up to the corner, and I am aware of urban CVS.

22:06:46 I visit my daughter in D.C. and very urban CVS.

22:06:50 I didn't realize the one on 4th street was in St.

22:06:53 Petersburg 30 miles from here.

22:06:56 It is like why not.

22:06:58 >> That is a good question.

22:07:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The bottom line is, yes, we all want

22:07:02 CVS there.

22:07:05 Every single person in that neighborhood wants a CVS there

22:07:09 because probably not one there close otherwise and nice

22:07:11 redevelopment, but why not.

22:07:15 >> I am going to speak briefly and ask Danny Gallagher the

22:07:20 CVS in-house architect to speak a little more about that

22:07:21 one particular issue.

22:07:24 First of all, the 4th and 9th street site.

22:07:25 I was involved in that deal.

22:07:31 That was one of CVS's first deals in this market, when

22:07:34 they had literally no presence in the area at all.

22:07:37 And that's -- that is what was sort of essentially

22:07:39 required and demanded in order to get the deal.

22:07:42 This is a totally different -- by the city and the

22:07:43 residents and everybody else.

22:07:47 This is a totally different economic climate that we are

22:07:47 in today.














22:07:50 They are not building very many new stores especially in

22:07:54 areas that are still in transition.

22:07:56 So --

22:07:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We want the store and we appreciate

22:08:00 the fact that in this economic climate, anyone who wants

22:08:02 to build anything is a wonderful thing, but at the same

22:08:06 time, we have gone to great efforts to create these new

22:08:10 urban design standards, specifically starting out in

22:08:11 Seminole Heights.

22:08:15 I just don't understand why now.

22:08:19 >> Let me let Danny come up and speak to that, if we did

22:08:22 that, we would lose additional grand trees.

22:08:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That is our decision.

22:08:27 That is our decision because that is a trade-off.

22:08:28 >> Let her speak to that first.

22:08:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I am just saying.

22:08:32 Whether that is true or not, if it is true, it is a

22:08:34 trade-off we can make on a PD.

22:08:34 >> Understood.

22:08:37 Dani Gallagher.

22:08:39 The CVS project construction manager.

22:08:43 I have been working on this project for 30 months or

22:08:44 whatever working on this month.

22:08:47 We are in a different economic state.

22:08:52 And we do absolutely realize that there is -- there are














22:08:54 plans that have been developed for this corner.

22:08:58 And we would like to as much as we can comply to that, but

22:09:00 we have -- it is a big corporation.

22:09:05 CVS pharmacies are out -- you know it in D.C. in an urban

22:09:06 environment.

22:09:09 We have specific guidelines, and part of our process is to

22:09:14 go through, acknowledge the demographics of the area, the

22:09:17 exact kind of location, analyze the population, the growth

22:09:21 that is projected over the term of the five years, ten

22:09:24 years, 15, as long as we are planning to be there and even

22:09:25 longer.

22:09:29 We absolutely want to look at it with the most optimistic

22:09:34 growth because obviously that is -- with all of that --

22:09:36 with all of the effort we put into it, we come back and

22:09:40 analyze that site and try to determine the best type of

22:09:44 structure and the best, you know, footprint for the site.

22:09:47 And this while we do recognize it as an urban type

22:09:51 development, and we try to address it in other means, the

22:09:56 site circulation -- the proven method of our pharmacy, how

22:09:59 it operates, the drive-thru and also the front door and

22:10:03 that the safety of the site to get pedestrians on the

22:10:07 site, to get vehicles on the site, to actually use the

22:10:10 drive through in the manner that, you know, we sell our

22:10:15 drugs through that back window, the prescriptions, we feel

22:10:17 that this type of layout works better.














22:10:20 But the proposal you saw earlier that kind of shifted it

22:10:26 up and changed it, we have prototypical footprints

22:10:29 I don't change the footprints.

22:10:30 I never changed the footprint.

22:10:33 I guarantee you that you will not go into a store that we

22:10:37 are building today and find a different type of footprint.

22:10:39 We have several to choose from, but they don't get -- they

22:10:41 don't come in different sizes.

22:10:43 There is very little change there.

22:10:47 And what it is based on a lot of individuals smarter than

22:10:50 I have gotten together to figure out how many categories

22:10:51 we need in the store.

22:10:53 How many prescriptions will sell.

22:10:57 How many baby diapers and come up with the size.

22:10:59 The number of aisles and circulation will meet the

22:11:00 requirements for codes.

22:11:01 The circulation within the store.

22:11:04 And that footprint of ours does not change.

22:11:06 The location of the drive-thru while we have three

22:11:08 different options, you can move it around the corner.

22:11:13 You can't put it closer to the front entrance.

22:11:17 It is always in an opposite type location.

22:11:22 If we are in an urban environment where it is a truly

22:11:25 urban downtown location, most of the times you will not

22:11:26 find a drive through.














22:11:33 The demographics -- and the -- this location doesn't work

22:11:36 if we don't put a drive-thru on it.

22:11:38 We can't make enough money without that drive-thru

22:11:45 component that warrants a drive - through for that site.

22:11:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What about for argument sake.

22:11:48 A nice tree.

22:11:50 Otherwise we wouldn't be hyped about it.

22:11:53 Just for argument sake, that tree goes away.

22:11:57 Could you then slide this up toward the street?

22:12:00 >> The -- the one -- the large tree that we are saving

22:12:03 that we put the pervious area around, the one that you

22:12:05 see on the plan.

22:12:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Right.

22:12:11 >> If it were to go away, I mean, it doesn't -- it doesn't

22:12:14 change the ultimate layout of the site we are trying to

22:12:18 circulate it and put some area toward the front of the

22:12:18 building.

22:12:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Right.

22:12:22 What I am saying maybe you can bring it all the way up and

22:12:28 just have, you know, like you have on Nebraska.

22:12:34 You have one layer of parking and you can do the same

22:12:38 thing and have one layer of parking on the Sligh side.

22:12:39 >> I absolutely --

22:12:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Which I think -- I don't know -- are

22:12:46 you guys the Dale Mabry and Kennedy or that Walgreen's.














22:12:48 >> That's us.

22:12:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's what you have there.

22:12:51 >> We have two and two.

22:12:53 I built it.

22:12:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You don't have a lot of parking there.

22:12:57 >> No.

22:12:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You don't have four layers of parking.

22:13:04 >> Truthfully, this plan -- that is one of the reasons we

22:13:07 modified the way we did to get up against Nebraska, up

22:13:09 against the side.

22:13:10 We were trying to understand the concerns and trying to

22:13:12 get the building closer.

22:13:14 We are 60 feet back.

22:13:16 That is actually less than what you are thinking of at the

22:13:19 corner of Kennedy and Dale Mabry.

22:13:28 It is actually, you know, -- it seems like a big number if

22:13:30 this building was up against the sidewalk, and this

22:13:35 building is very visible, and part of what we have done to

22:13:40 try to -- to make some strides toward fitting into this

22:13:45 plan is we have taken the -- the look of a CVS and we have

22:13:47 taken prototype.

22:13:50 That I can change and so we have come back and we tried to

22:13:52 marry it up with elements in the neighborhood.

22:13:55 We have worked very, very closely with the neighborhood

22:14:04 groups to try to understand what they would like to see.














22:14:08 , The public and on Nebraska.

22:14:11 They have two areas on Nebraska.

22:14:14 But we are taking elements of that and we are trying to --

22:14:19 we tried to give on the Nebraska side and take on the

22:14:19 Sligh Avenue.

22:14:21 But the bottom line is, you are right.

22:14:24 I still have parking at the front door and ultimately that

22:14:27 is what I need from a Corporate standpoint in order to get

22:14:29 this to move forward.

22:14:33 If I was to come back from tonight's hearing with the

22:14:38 result that I have to move this building up on the street

22:14:41 front, we will not do a development.

22:14:46 And that's -- it is just unfortunate, but the way CVS is

22:14:46 right now.

22:14:49 We got decisions to make and look at the overall numbers

22:14:51 and look at our layout and we have to understand how much

22:15:00 we give up and how it impacts us.

22:15:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is 4th street successful.

22:15:05 >> Not all that successful.

22:15:08 I random graphics and not what we consider a horrible

22:15:12 store, but it doesn't hold its -- the type of pro forma

22:15:20 this store would.

22:15:27 -- I don't know how you turn this on, but this is a --

22:15:30 this is the proposed rendering.

22:15:33 We actually have one of our designers take a photomontage














22:15:36 of the existing site right now.

22:15:48 And we overlaid the building design on it to show you.

22:15:51 Yes -- actually I left them out so they wouldn't be in the

22:15:52 way, but they are still there.

22:15:59 But the trees are reminiscent of the of the actual trees

22:15:59 on-site.

22:16:03 You can see -- you can see how close it is to the Nebraska

22:16:07 side.

22:16:10 Recognize what the goal of the overall plan is and being a

22:16:15 designer myself, I understand a lot of -- a chance to get

22:16:23 the long-range vision plan in place we don't want to turn

22:16:26 our backs to it but try the development an trying for many

22:16:27 months --

22:16:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Too bad you don't have any customers

22:16:32 at that store --

22:16:36 >> We are actually hoping -- the bus line to bring them

22:16:36 in.

22:16:39 We do -- we do want the parking.

22:16:42 We want the pedestrians to come into the store and we want

22:16:44 to use the drive-thru.

22:16:51 And it is all relative to the business of the pharmacy.

22:16:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, one of the first ones

22:17:01 you open up is Osbourne and Nebraska, right?

22:17:03 Called Rose Drugs.

22:17:04 Right or wrong.














22:17:08 then brought uncle Jack out.

22:17:09 Right.

22:17:11 Jack Eckerd.

22:17:12 >> That's right.

22:17:13 We did.

22:17:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: How many of those stores -- he was my

22:17:18 uncle.

22:17:21 I used to call him uncle Jack.

22:17:23 He never knew it though.

22:17:28 How many of those stores are still in operation?

22:17:30 >> I don't know the total number of purchase versus the

22:17:35 total number converted, but the eckerd's location makes up

22:17:39 the primary that we took over in Florida.

22:17:44 I would say more than 90%.

22:17:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: What I am trying to get at, one on

22:17:51 Columbus and MacDill is not too far off the front.

22:17:56 25, 30 feet from Columbus drive and MacDill Avenue.

22:17:59 I go there.

22:18:00 I didn't say I buy there.

22:18:03 I said I went there.

22:18:08 But it's.

22:18:10 Your people are very smart but they have that marketing

22:18:16 tool where you need that little card to get a discount and

22:18:22 the other the w will tell you $5 off the next purchase.

22:18:24 They are not too smart because I ain't going to wait for














22:18:28 the next purchase.

22:18:32 What I am saying is what is so difficult -- I am trying to

22:18:34 get at this because I don't know the psychology.

22:18:36 That's what I am getting at.

22:18:39 What makes a buyer to say I want --

22:18:42 >> Our primary customer -- well, we have several

22:18:44 demographics that shop our store.

22:18:47 >> A football stadium walk two miles to go see a game.

22:18:51 I am not trying be funny and I am trying to say there are

22:18:54 specific reasons for specific thoughts.

22:18:57 >> One of our core customers is the mom.

22:19:00 The -- you know the core customer shows up.

22:19:02 She's got to get her kids.

22:19:06 Her children out of the car to go into the store to pick

22:19:07 up a prescription.

22:19:08 The baby is sick.

22:19:11 She is going to pick up some groceries hopefully or

22:19:13 diapers or whatever she needs.

22:19:18 That customer is driving to the store in most cases.

22:19:21 And they want to park close to the front door.

22:19:25 We have elderly -- I mean prescriptions in Florida is a

22:19:27 big -- is a big sell.

22:19:32 And a lot of our elderly customers -- I do think in this

22:19:35 location you will have -- you will have some coming on the

22:19:37 HARTline.














22:19:40 You will also have the vehicular access -- we have a lot

22:19:44 of people that utilize the drive-thru.

22:19:48 I don't have the specific number of what our -- off of the

22:19:52 drive-thru versus off of the front store -- or versus

22:19:55 inside the store but we do a significant amount of the

22:19:58 drive-thru.

22:20:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: One store in Tampa Ucle Jack's on

22:20:05 Henderson Boulevard and right before Manhattan.

22:20:10 It is in an angle that I have never seen in my life.

22:20:12 >> It is now a CVS.

22:20:15 >> Go in the back door to go through the front door.

22:20:18 >> Two aisles of parking along henderson and four aisles

22:20:23 on a weird shaped corner on the other.

22:20:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I bet you that store is doing good.

22:20:26 >> It is doing well.

22:20:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So what I am saying is not all that is

22:20:32 the same is always perfect.

22:20:33 >> No.

22:20:35 But the footprint --

22:20:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I understand.

22:20:38 >> Is the same.

22:20:40 That is what I am trying to say.

22:20:44 We have a lot of -- I have a lot of ability to alter the

22:20:48 look of this to make it fit into the structure.

22:20:51 Make it fit into the fabric of the neighborhood.














22:20:54 What I cannot alter is that footprint.

22:20:56 I can't make the building a different shape.

22:20:58 He can't make it a different size.

22:21:11 I can increase the height of it in a false sense.

22:21:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Follow it around.

22:21:15 >> We can follow it around but our footprint in the

22:21:18 demographics for this store is a 3-2 layout.

22:21:21 Three parking rows on one side and two on the other.

22:21:27 And in an effort to work with staff, I went in front of

22:21:29 our CVS early on.

22:21:33 I wouldn't normally have done that until we had approval,

22:21:35 and I went in front of them and told them we needed

22:21:37 something to work with.

22:21:40 I didn't want the project just to -- to just stop.

22:21:44 And so I gained approval to reduce down to this one row of

22:21:45 parking on Nebraska.

22:21:50 But I also came away with it with -- that's why I can

22:21:53 stand here and tell that you it will not go forward if I

22:21:55 have to push the building up on the road.

22:22:05 That's not the demographic for this store.

22:22:10 >> I know we want to hear from the residents and I have a

22:22:13 whole list of a bunch of things to go through, but maybe

22:22:16 we should go ahead and let the residents speak and if we

22:22:18 can come up and finish our presentation at the end if you

22:22:20 have additional questions.














22:22:22 Because there have been a lot of changes and a lot of

22:22:24 things that we have agreed to in consultation with the

22:22:28 residents that we think create a better product, and I

22:22:29 think you will hear a lot of that from them and I don't

22:22:32 think we want to rehash it, but still do have a lot of

22:22:35 additional items, but maybe if we go ahead.

22:22:38 I know there has been a number of people waiting for a

22:22:40 long time.

22:22:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Those who want to address Council pros

22:22:47 and cons.

22:22:54 Opposed to my left --

22:22:55 >> Wait.

22:22:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: My left.

22:23:04 You are in favor to my left, which is your right.

22:23:07 If you are for this project -- if you are for the project

22:23:10 to my left, which is your right.

22:23:13 If you are opposed to it.

22:23:23 You are to my right which is to my left.

22:23:30 >> Mr. Shelby, can you remind the public of your rules if

22:23:33 you have a vested interest, you have to stave it like if

22:23:35 you are involved in the construction or the property owner

22:23:49 or something like that.

22:24:09 Let me read Council's rules.

22:24:13 City Council must disclose any direct or indirect business

22:24:22 or personal interest between themselves and the but goes














22:24:24 to the weight of the evidence, information or opinion

22:24:25 provided.

22:24:28 And I assume that everybody here is under oath.

22:24:29 Is that correct.

22:24:31 Anyone who is not sworn in.

22:24:32 Okay.

22:24:37 Thank you.

22:24:39 >> My name is Connie Dowling.

22:24:45 I live at 6810 north 10th Street just South of where 10th

22:24:49 street dead-ends into a cul-de-sac just prior to reaching

22:24:53 Sligh Avenue.

22:24:56 And runs parallel to it.

22:25:01 The homes on my street are modest and attractive with well

22:25:04 maintained exteriors and yards.

22:25:07 The majority of the residents have lived on 10th street

22:25:11 for 15 years or more and largely due to the dead end

22:25:12 component.

22:25:16 It is a very quiet street with traffic and criminal

22:25:20 activity being practically nonexistent.

22:25:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Now you told them where you are

22:25:31 though.

22:25:31
(Change of Captioners)




22:25:53 >> We are heartened by CVS's desire to guarantee our

22:26:00 safety and security and privacy by agreeing to erect an

22:26:05 eight-foot concrete wall between the east edge of

22:26:08 pharmacy property this barrier should provide

22:26:20 considerable retention once the rambles and wooded

22:26:24 overgrowth is cleared away.

22:26:27 More over, CVS's willingness to ensure that the

22:26:32 wildlife that presently resides in that wooded area

22:26:39 rather than being completely displaced to our

22:26:42 residences and businesses will be humanely tracked and

22:26:49 a relocated to protected rural areas and in other

22:26:53 counties.

22:27:00 Second, as a neighborhood resident who has participated

22:27:04 in many form-based sessions over the past two and a

22:27:07 half years, I applaud the efforts of CVS to greatly

22:27:14 revise their original site plan in favor of one much

22:27:17 more in keeping with form-based parameters.

22:27:22 Granted, the new plan may not be in 100 percent

22:27:27 compliance with form-based guidelines.

22:27:30 However, many concessions certainly have been made to




22:27:37 ensure a much more pedestrian-friendly venue.

22:27:43 In evidence also will be a very significant green

22:27:47 space, and a unique largely brick building that I think

22:27:52 has a definite 30s, 40s sort of Seminole Heights

22:27:57 feel to it has been created.

22:28:00 (Bell sounds).

22:28:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, thank you.

22:28:04 Next speaker.

22:28:07 Yes, ma'am.

22:28:07 >> Susan Long, 920 East Broad Street, and I have been

22:28:16 sworn in.

22:28:17 I'm looking at the lineup here thinking, I think I'm in

22:28:20 the vast minority here.

22:28:23 I want to thank CVS for working with us in their

22:28:26 guidelines and the developers for pushing CVS beyond

22:28:29 their usual limitations because they did.

22:28:31 They spent a lot of time with us.

22:28:33 They make great strides to our neighborhood requests.

22:28:40 They are wonderful people and we enjoyed working with

22:28:42 them.

22:28:43 I, however, cannot stand this PD.

22:28:45 If we approve this PD, how do we make the next




22:28:49 developer or business conform to form-based zoning

22:28:52 which we worked for over two years to get in.

22:28:55 This is a pleasant building with many architectural

22:28:58 features that we requested, it does not meet the format

22:29:02 that we laid out for form-based zoning.

22:29:04 Monday, just three days ago, we stood in front of the

22:29:07 Planning Commission to get form-based planning

22:29:11 approved.

22:29:12 Now we stand here at a major intersection in our

22:29:15 neighborhood that is not consistent with form-based

22:29:17 zoning?

22:29:18 The largest expanse of parking, and the use of the

22:29:23 large lot do not meet any of these objectives we laid

22:29:25 out.

22:29:26 With the short fall of parking space in the

22:29:30 neighborhood such a large amount of land for CVS-only

22:29:33 parking in my opinion is counterproductive to our goal

22:29:36 of developing the commercial corridors in Seminole

22:29:38 Heights.

22:29:39 I have spoken with many of my neighbors who disagree

22:29:42 with me.

22:29:42 Some are so thirsty for clean neighborhood-serving




22:29:45 businesses that they'll take anything.

22:29:48 Others feel that CVS by saving that one large grand

22:29:51 tree in the middle of their parking lot is doing more

22:29:56 for the tree canopy than the next guy would.

22:30:00 Some believe that we since they are willing to

22:30:04 compromise on some items we should compromise on the

22:30:07 rest.

22:30:08 I would rather wait for a form based zoning each though

22:30:12 I too am thirsty for clean neighborhood-serving

22:30:15 businesses.

22:30:16 I cannot support a development to compromise the

22:30:17 form-based zoning which we worked so hard for.

22:30:20 I cannot support a sea that we have fought so hard to

22:30:25 convert to shared parking.

22:30:26 I cannot support a single use building on such a

22:30:28 uniquely large piece of property.

22:30:30 I'm afraid that approval of this PD will jeopardize all

22:30:33 our hard work and make it much more difficult to

22:30:35 require other developers for inform based zoning.

22:30:43 In essence, we were selected to be the beta test or

22:30:46 model for other neighborhoods.

22:30:47 What kind of a model is it, our first opportunity to




22:30:52 step forward and approve a project to virtually any of

22:30:55 the requirements that we laid out.

22:30:57 Please do not accept this PD as currently designed.

22:30:59 Thank you.

22:30:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

22:31:02 Next speaker.

22:31:02 >> My name is Rick Pfeiffer, 1408 east Hanna, here

22:31:15 representing businesses of Seminole Heights.

22:31:17 >>MARTIN SHELBY: A question if I can.

22:31:29 The letter is not from you?

22:31:31 >> No.

22:31:33 She gave me a speaker waiver form.

22:31:35 >> Is Ingrid here?

22:31:38 Thank you.

22:31:38 >>> I participated in the form-based workshops.

22:31:42 I have gone to the vision plan.

22:31:43 I'm here speaking for the business guild of Seminole

22:31:46 Heights.

22:31:47 We are endorsing the project.

22:31:50 For a variety of different reasons.

22:31:51 And we have heard a lot of what we wanted, and I was at

22:31:54 the Planning Commission meeting and spoke in favor of




22:31:57 them putting forward the plan.

22:31:59 Is that inconsistent?

22:32:00 I don't believe so.

22:32:01 I believe it is looking at the fact that everything

22:32:04 that we do in this community has to be the result of

22:32:07 some degree of compromise.

22:32:10 CVS has gone a long ways in listening to our community.

22:32:15 You have most of the people here I think are supportive

22:32:18 or neutral.

22:32:19 But through this project, they have tried to find a

22:32:22 balance between the competing ideals of reflecting

22:32:27 historical architectural elements found in Seminole

22:32:30 Heights, commercial and residential environments,

22:32:34 preserving the mature tree canopy, and I heard about

22:32:37 the large number of trees being taken out.

22:32:39 It doesn't specify what trees those trees are that are

22:32:42 being taken out.

22:32:44 But it is going to mean that we are going to have a new

22:32:47 development but is not going to have the lollipop sized

22:32:51 trees that Mrs. Saul-Sena referred to earlier which is

22:32:53 what you would see if you go down to Panera at Howard

22:32:57 and, what is that, Azeele or Swann.




22:33:06 At the same time a vision of a more urban streetscape.

22:33:09 They did move the building up considerably.

22:33:11 It will be one of the closest developments to that.

22:33:13 When we talk about putting parking on the side, or to

22:33:17 the rear of the property, what's getting lost in this

22:33:20 particular case, Sligh Avenue is the side.

22:33:24 They have only one row of parking up on the front of

22:33:26 this building, in this proposal.

22:33:30 It has been a compromise.

22:33:32 And, yes, we have had to compromise.

22:33:35 Seminole Heights has a long record of supporting and

22:33:39 opposing things that we think are contrary to our

22:33:40 vision of our community and where we would like to go.

22:33:46 I have a list of items that CVS is committed to doing

22:33:48 regarding this.

22:33:51 That I will also submit.

22:33:52 But in looking at what we can do and what we can't do,

22:33:55 we have to realize the economic circumstances that we

22:33:58 are in and realize that it is a gamble to get somebody

22:34:01 to be the first one to come in to our neighborhood in a

22:34:05 very long time and put this kind of investment in.

22:34:08 And they have worked with us.




22:34:10 And if we lose this project, what are we going to be

22:34:15 left with?

22:34:16 A crappy looking car lot, an empty lot across the

22:34:21 street.

22:34:21 And when we were talking about drug treatment centers,

22:34:25 right across the street is the alcohol treatment

22:34:27 center's detox facility.

22:34:29 So we are trying to transition our neighborhood.

22:34:32 And we can't arrive at our ultimate goal in one "fell

22:34:40 swoop" with this project.

22:34:41 It has to be the result of compromise.

22:34:43 I think they have worked very hard to do that.

22:34:45 The items here I have already presented to CVS that we

22:34:47 have discussed about putting them into the plan.

22:34:50 I would like to put those up as well.

22:34:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You are handing me a list --

22:35:02 >>GWEN MILLER: You have to speak on the record, Mr.

22:35:03 Speaker.

22:35:04 >> Those are a list of items that we have discussed

22:35:07 with CVS that includes the eight-foot masonry wall,

22:35:11 that we are requesting to put a.

22:35:13 Fence.




22:35:14 Now they are actually going above the eight-foot wall.

22:35:17 It's the brick facade, the historic lighting for the

22:35:21 parking, the bus stop that they propose to put in that,

22:35:27 also reflect the architecture that they are using for

22:35:29 the building.

22:35:30 Those are very specific things that we have discussed

22:35:32 with CVS.

22:35:34 It.

22:35:34 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Now, my understanding, Ms. Cole, I

22:35:36 don't believe these are -- I think the eight-foot

22:35:39 masonry wall is code, I understand, code requirement.

22:35:50 It goes to eight feet.

22:35:52 It's on the site plan?

22:35:53 It is not on the site plan.

22:35:54 >>JULIA COLE: I think that's my issue.

22:35:56 My issue is whether or not these provisions that

22:35:58 apparently there may have been some agreements here.

22:36:00 I don't understand that they have been put on the site

22:36:03 plan and I haven't heard that CVS is requesting these

22:36:07 to actually be placed as conditions on the site plan,

22:36:09 and I don't know if staff had an opportunity to review

22:36:13 this.




22:36:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY: So my concern with this, council,

22:36:17 even if we put this in the record, these are not on the

22:36:20 site plan, to the best of my knowledge, or are they?

22:36:23 And they are not legally enforceable and the city will

22:36:25 not be a party to enforcing these, an agreement between

22:36:29 your organization and the developer.

22:36:33 So I'm just concerned for the purpose for which you are

22:36:36 placing it in the record.

22:36:37 >>JIM SHIMBERG: Some of those are on there and the rest

22:36:43 were intended to be put on after this hearing prior to

22:36:46 second reading.

22:36:47 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Well, I am going to hand this over so

22:36:52 it goes into the record then.

22:36:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.

22:36:55 >> Good evening.

22:37:00 My name is Gary else worth, 111 west Chelsea street.

22:37:05 I want to say for the record I am not speaking on

22:37:07 behalf of south Seminole Heights this evening.

22:37:09 I am, however, speaking on behalf of myself who has

22:37:13 participated in the form-based code projects for the

22:37:15 last two years.

22:37:18 Probably if there needed to be a line somewhere, not




22:37:21 all the way there, but kind of somewhere in the middle,

22:37:24 because I certainly support what CVS is trying to do,

22:37:27 but I also would ask you to please make sure that we

22:37:29 don't compromise on the work that we are going to be

22:37:34 waving in front of you and you probably haven't seen

22:37:36 this yet but you will shortly.

22:37:38 It's a Seminole Heights vision plan.

22:37:40 And I think that -- and I would just ask you to keep

22:37:45 that in mind, not as much as what we are lag for, for

22:37:48 next week, but what we are looking as a start for the

22:37:51 next 30 years throughout our neighborhood.

22:37:53 So I just ask you to keep that in mind.

22:37:56 Thank you.

22:37:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Excuse me.

22:37:59 I totally misunderstand what you said in terms --

22:38:02 >> That's because we all probably need a pharmacy right

22:38:05 about now.

22:38:06 [ Laughter ]

22:38:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Could you clarify?

22:38:12 >> I just ask council when making a decisions that we

22:38:15 are not compromising on the work that's been put in the

22:38:18 form-based code.




22:38:19 I don't think that the solution should be we have got

22:38:22 crappy looking corners now so it either this or crappy

22:38:25 looking corners.

22:38:26 >> So to clarify, are you supporting the proposal

22:38:29 before us?

22:38:30 >> I am not supporting the proposal before you, but I

22:38:33 do appreciate the work CVS has done to get where we are

22:38:37 now.

22:38:37 But I still feel to some degree we are compromising on

22:38:41 the work that we have put into this process in the

22:38:43 form-based code.

22:38:44 >> That was clearer.

22:38:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman.

22:38:53 SPEAKER: Thank you, sir.

22:38:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The speaker and others have made

22:39:02 reference to the Seminole Heights plan, the form-based

22:39:06 code that has not been adopted.

22:39:11 And my concern and advice to council is that you do not

22:39:14 take that into account.

22:39:15 However, if you would inquire of Ms. Feeley, your comp

22:39:19 plan does set forth the requirements which do form the

22:39:25 basis for the implementation which is going to be




22:39:29 coming forth in the Seminole Heights plan.

22:39:33 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land Development Coordination.

22:39:35 The new comprehensive plan does identify form-based

22:39:38 code as an approach.

22:39:40 In addition, it identifies Seminole Heights as one of

22:39:43 those form-based code areas.

22:39:45 So although that is not an adopted documentation and

22:39:48 supported by the comprehensive plan it will be coming

22:39:51 forward.

22:39:51 >> Thank you.

22:39:52 Next speaker.

22:39:53 >> Morris Hintzman, President, Metropolitan Ministries.

22:40:00 2002 North Florida Avenue.

22:40:03 I have been sworn.

22:40:05 I'm speaking as Metropolitan Ministries owns a facility

22:40:13 in this property area, 905 -- is it east Sligh?

22:40:21 I believe it is.

22:40:21 So I'm speaking on behalf of not only the families,

22:40:26 that we have four young families that live there, with

22:40:30 small children, and this particular project, while we

22:40:34 are in no way want these families to be uprooted and

22:40:39 moved elsewhere, what this will do for us is allow us




22:40:46 through this transaction to replace that facility and

22:40:50 be able to care for between six and eight more families

22:40:53 with the reinvestment of these funds.

22:40:56 So it's not something that we aren't willing to work

22:41:00 with.

22:41:01 The other part is we just -- back in May opened a town

22:41:08 home facility just up the street from this, and one of

22:41:11 the things that those 12 families deal with is having a

22:41:16 place that is convenient, which they all have small

22:41:20 children, and where they can get prescription drugs and

22:41:24 diapers and all those things that are convenient for

22:41:28 raising a young family.

22:41:29 So we certainly, whether it for their basic needs or

22:41:36 other people that we are working with in that

22:41:40 neighborhood that have similar needs, we certainly

22:41:42 would support and recognize the value of CVS, making

22:41:48 the investment.

22:41:49 I'll be the last one to comment on design and

22:41:52 footprints and all of that.

22:41:54 I'll leave that to the others.

22:41:55 But I certainly support this, because it does in fact

22:42:00 affect us, and it does in fact affect four families,




22:42:05 and in the future will end up affecting six to eight

22:42:08 families in a positive way.

22:42:10 Thank you.

22:42:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you for everything you do for

22:42:12 our community.

22:42:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.

22:42:16 >> Tom Chamberlain. I live at 1426 east Comanche.

22:42:21 I also have a small business that's in the district

22:42:24 very near to where I hope there is going to be a CVS

22:42:27 soon.

22:42:28 I'm here sharing my Thursday evening with you.

22:42:30 There are three other places that I could be -- at home

22:42:34 with my wife being one of them, but I am out because I

22:42:37 think this is so important.

22:42:38 I look around, and I was struck by the two different

22:42:41 pictures that we saw.

22:42:42 What's there now is this old eyesore tire shop.

22:42:46 Compare that with the proposed CVS that is this great

22:42:49 building, and to have an opportunity to have an eyesore

22:42:53 removed and replaced not just by something that's

22:42:56 aesthetically pleasing but by a corporate entity that

22:43:01 has a reputation to protect it obviously cares about




22:43:04 the surrounding community that use as lot of time and

22:43:07 resources doing that which they obviously do.

22:43:09 I think it so critical.

22:43:11 And I really urge you to allow that to happen.

22:43:14 I think when I look at the alternative, if you refuse

22:43:18 to let that happen, two different things that I see,

22:43:22 fairly dire consequences.

22:43:23 One, CVS says, fine, we are going somewhere else, we

22:43:26 are going to let you have that tire shop.

22:43:28 But then the other thing, I think a longer-term

22:43:32 consequence is the next company or the next business

22:43:34 that wants to come in will look at what happened with

22:43:36 CVS and say, why bother?

22:43:38 So we'll be stuck with the tire shops, and we'll be

22:43:41 stuck with these grungy motels.

22:43:47 I think for those reasons this is vital to the

22:43:49 community to allow this to happen.

22:43:51 It would be a tremendous resource.

22:43:53 It would be jobs.

22:43:54 It would spur economic activity both directly and the

22:43:57 indirect economic activity, with the restaurant uses,

22:44:02 just the tangential economic benefits I think would be




22:44:06 tremendous.

22:44:06 So I please urge you to allow this to happen.

22:44:09 Thank you.

22:44:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

22:44:16 Next speaker.

22:44:16 >> Good evening.

22:44:19 My name is Jeff hock and I live at 1006 east Idlewild.

22:44:23 >> Jeff, what were the good old days when -- agreed

22:44:29 about everything?

22:44:30 >> Yes, back when the Indians lived there, I think.

22:44:34 I have lived in Seminole Heights 12 years now.

22:44:36 I have been active in the community, as you have seen

22:44:38 me up here before.

22:44:40 One with of the things I think that brought about

22:44:42 form-based zoning, and what the features that you see

22:44:46 on the comprehensive plan, was almost a pervasive

22:44:51 desire through our neighborhood to get rid of some of

22:44:53 these car lots, to get rid of some of these eyesores

22:44:56 that the first session that you had in here, what is

22:45:00 the example she used? We don't want to look like what

22:45:04 the box is.

22:45:06 That's been the current underlying theme.




22:45:08 So I guess one of my questions is, what are we getting

22:45:12 if our solution doesn't get us there?

22:45:16 What we would like to get is a neighborhood-serving

22:45:19 business.

22:45:19 What exists right there is nothing of the sort.

22:45:23 We have a car lot.

22:45:24 We have a commercial intensive use.

22:45:28 This would be serving so many needs.

22:45:30 And I understand that this doesn't meet all the

22:45:33 requirements or it's not a perfect plan.

22:45:35 Nothing ever is.

22:45:37 And I'll point out that a very, very popular

22:45:41 development is the Starbuck's that exists at the corner

22:45:43 of central and Hillsborough.

22:45:46 That's an example of a building that did not meet the

22:45:49 initial guidelines.

22:45:51 All the neighbors in the area, it's a very contentious

22:45:55 issue.

22:45:56 We worked very diligently with Starbuck's.

22:45:58 They came up with a building which is very, very

22:46:01 similar to what CVS is proposing.

22:46:05 That was a very long night, similar to this one right




22:46:08 here.

22:46:09 What they ended up proposing was nothing that was

22:46:12 really supported by the ARC guidelines.

22:46:17 And one of the things that we were told is, you get

22:46:19 this building and have the frontage with the parking

22:46:22 lot.

22:46:23 It won't meet your urban village design.

22:46:25 People won't go to it.

22:46:27 But look at it today.

22:46:29 There is more foot traffic than there is car traffic

22:46:33 today.

22:46:34 I live over a mile away, and I walk to that Starbuck's.

22:46:37 So I don't think that while this isn't perfect, I don't

22:46:41 see it as the end of the world.

22:46:43 This corner, Sligh and Nebraska, is nowhere close to

22:46:46 being an urban village.

22:46:48 And I wonder if we don't allow this project, how long

22:46:53 will we have to wait before we do get something like

22:46:56 this?

22:46:57 And while I know that it may not meet all the

22:47:00 parameters of the comprehensive plan, I know that it

22:47:05 will be a linchpin for further development that is so




22:47:10 desperately needed in our neighborhood, especially in

22:47:12 these economic times.

22:47:13 So I urge you to a approve this plan.

22:47:17 And I appreciate your time.

22:47:18 Thank you.

22:47:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

22:47:19 Next speaker.

22:47:26 >> My name is iron, here on behalf of Francine daycare

22:47:33 center, 912 east Sligh Avenue.

22:47:35 We are kind of, you know, we totally, wholeheartedly

22:47:39 support CVS coming in.

22:47:40 We have a lot of families coming in, and we have also a

22:47:44 lot of kids coming in to our daycare.

22:47:47 So we think it would benefit our families greatly to

22:47:50 have something so close, and a also be a one-stop-shop

22:47:53 for the moms and dads that are running out to pick up

22:47:56 the kids and get on their way as quick as possible.

22:48:00 I feel it's going to improve the appearance of our

22:48:02 surrounding area which right now it quite an eyesore on

22:48:06 each corner.

22:48:07 So everyone else said the same thing.

22:48:09 But we definitely are in favor for it.




22:48:11 Thank you.

22:48:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

22:48:14 Next speaker.

22:48:15 >> My name is James Lessier, 6718 north 10th

22:48:25 street, which is right behind the proposed CVS.

22:48:31 I have been in the area since 1999 doing home

22:48:34 improvement and building, and the urban development

22:48:40 scenario is delusional.

22:48:42 I go up and down Nebraska Avenue instead of taking 275

22:48:46 to see the improvements.

22:48:48 And the only one withs spending money there is Pam

22:48:51 Iorio on the crosswalks and sidewalks and some

22:48:57 landscaping.

22:48:59 No one is doing any kind of building over there,

22:49:02 because they don't have the pockets for it.

22:49:04 If you don't allow CVS to do this kind of building, you

22:49:07 are never going to get the improvement you want in the

22:49:09 area.

22:49:11 Nothing is going to happen.

22:49:12 Nothing is going to change.

22:49:13 We'll be back here ten years from now trying to change

22:49:17 that used car lot into a mom and pop diner, because




22:49:21 that's all you are going to get there.

22:49:23 And that's what's happening in the area.

22:49:26 If they are not allowed to do it because they are the

22:49:28 only ones with deep enough pockets to do it, there's

22:49:32 not going to be any improvement here.

22:49:34 The values of our houses are going to stay down, and

22:49:37 you are not going to have anything done on Nebraska

22:49:39 Avenue for a long, long time.

22:49:42 Thank you.

22:49:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.

22:49:51 >> Good evening.

22:49:52 My name is Sandra Kyle, 6711 north Wellington.

22:49:57 I stood before you ten years ago, thereabouts, on

22:50:01 almost the same issue.

22:50:04 Unfortunately, at that point in time I did not have the

22:50:07 support of the staff or plan development.

22:50:11 I am happy to say tonight I have all the support of

22:50:14 staff and plan development and Tony Garcia, and I'm so

22:50:19 happy for that, because I do not support this CVS

22:50:24 design, the development.

22:50:28 I agree with all that staff has said.

22:50:34 I agree with form-based zoning.




22:50:37 The citizens of Seminole Heights have worked very hard

22:50:40 for that.

22:50:41 And I am just glad I could be here tonight to say that.

22:50:47 It's nothing against CVS.

22:50:48 But my corner is doing just fine without their

22:50:51 competitor, now almost ten years later.

22:50:55 I think that there is room for development.

22:50:57 I would like to see something come in on my corner, but

22:51:01 I would like to see the best use possible, to be

22:51:06 allowed to build there, and I think we would be

22:51:08 compromising that if we allowed this particular

22:51:13 proposal to go forward.

22:51:14 So I respectfully ask you to deny this request.

22:51:16 Thank you.

22:51:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

22:51:20 Okay.

22:51:21 Anyone else?

22:51:22 Okay.

22:51:24 Petitioner?

22:51:24 >> Just a couple of quick items.

22:51:28 I actually --

22:51:29 >> Name?




22:51:32 >> Didn't you say five minutes?

22:51:35 >> If you listen to --

22:51:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: How much time are we going to need?

22:51:41 It's out of sequence.

22:51:42 I know we generally have five minutes.

22:51:44 >> That's fine.

22:51:46 >>THE CLERK: There were about eight minute left on his

22:51:48 presentation time when we stopped the presentation.

22:51:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So he has eight minutes left on the

22:51:52 time?

22:51:53 >>THE CLERK: 8 minutes 50 seconds to be exact.

22:51:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.

22:51:56 >> When you heard Mr. Garcia give his presentation, he

22:51:59 went through a lot of detail, and in listening to what

22:52:03 he said, I felt like he could have come out the other

22:52:06 way if he would have wanted to but he was trying to

22:52:08 make a point that this is something that the city has

22:52:10 decided was important for him to support that.

22:52:13 But there's plenty of positive in the comp plan that

22:52:16 you could argue, that we are consistent with.

22:52:18 And we heard it.

22:52:20 I knew the residents in the community would be a lot




22:52:22 more articulate and that's what I wanted them to come

22:52:25 up and obviously they were not in all.

22:52:27 But they all agreed that our clients have been working

22:52:30 hard to try to put forward the best project that they

22:52:33 can.

22:52:33 And, you know, we never like to stand up here and say

22:52:36 you can't change anything, and that's not the way to do

22:52:40 business.

22:52:41 And sometimes, the corporate reality kind of takes

22:52:43 over.

22:52:45 You know, I don't know what's going to happen if you

22:52:50 make any changes in this project and Annie Gallagher

22:52:53 does because she's been on the real estate committee

22:52:56 and in this environment they are not looking for

22:52:58 storage that are marginal or, you know, not great.

22:53:00 They are only looking for stores that are going to do

22:53:02 really well, because that's just the economy that we

22:53:05 are in.

22:53:06 They don't have the circulation, if they don't have the

22:53:09 proper location of the drive-through, there are things

22:53:12 they are just not going to take a chance right now.

22:53:14 I'm not saying they aren't going to come back at some




22:53:18 time but right now not do the deal.

22:53:19 So I really feel like when you look at the overall

22:53:22 picture, I know that Mike Calahan is doing his job and

22:53:26 Abbye is doing her job and Tony is doing his job.

22:53:30 And the vision plan and the form-based zoning is -- Mr.

22:53:35 Shelby, you cannot use that as a factor against us.

22:53:38 The comprehensive plan has a lot of different policies

22:53:40 in there that I think work, and I'll go through the

22:53:44 list of all the ones that I think we are consistent

22:53:46 with.

22:53:46 It's obviously a somewhat subjective decision and you

22:53:51 guys are the elected officials and you can make the

22:53:53 decision as to whether something is consistent with the

22:53:56 comprehensive plan or not.

22:53:57 You can listen to all the testimony, then you have to

22:54:00 make the decision, because that's what you are elected

22:54:02 to do.

22:54:03 I think overall, when you look at the area we are

22:54:08 talking about -- and it's great to put a lot of effort

22:54:11 into a community vision, and obviously everybody would

22:54:14 love to see community visions come through exactly the

22:54:16 way that they are envisioned by people, and sometimes




22:54:20 that happens.

22:54:21 But a lot of times, it doesn't.

22:54:22 And I understand it's going to be a long time before

22:54:27 someone comes to this site and wants to build 130,000

22:54:30 square feet or 220,000 square feet of a mixed use

22:54:33 building.

22:54:33 And maybe it will happen some day, and maybe it won't

22:54:36 and we'll go back, as someone said, used to be Sligh

22:54:43 and Howard.

22:54:44 I want to primarily stress that our client has listened

22:54:48 to the community and has tried to respond positively to

22:54:51 as many of the suggestions as possible.

22:54:53 Whether it was responding to the requests that a bus

22:54:57 lane be added in order to relieve some traffic

22:55:01 congestion.

22:55:02 We know this is a highly Hartline site and we hope

22:55:09 people will use the facility when they stop T at that

22:55:11 location, the shell we are building for them.

22:55:14 I know some of the architectural issues, Julia may talk

22:55:18 about whether that's appropriate on the site plan.

22:55:20 We think it is, and we have made these commitments.

22:55:22 And we are going to follow through with them whether




22:55:24 it's on the site plan or not.

22:55:27 This picture that we are showing, there's no other CVS

22:55:30 in the country that looks like this.

22:55:31 So what Ms. Gallagher did was try to do the things she

22:55:37 could do and change the things she could change, while

22:55:40 she was not able to do some of the things that Mike

22:55:44 Callahan an other people asked us -- asked us to do.

22:55:47 We are trying to emulate the 1940s architecture, that

22:55:52 brick is supposed to match the color of the historic

22:55:55 buildings in Seminole Heights, architectural design on

22:56:00 all four sides, special brick paver, walkways for bed

22:56:05 traffic, two bike racks to further encourage the

22:56:07 pedestrian activity, old-fashioned streetlights, wider

22:56:12 sidewalks than is required by the city, wrought iron

22:56:16 ornamental fence, closing out the portion of the

22:56:19 property to safeguard against trespassers, eleven

22:56:23 parking spaces, impervious pavement, reduction --

22:56:27 originally requested parking, handrails around the

22:56:32 grand trees.

22:56:41 You heard about the raccoons we were going to relocate

22:56:44 out of the back of the property.

22:56:49 On the bus stop, CVS is committed to use local art work




22:56:52 to further incorporate the community's character.

22:56:55 Residents will be asked for input on the color and the

22:56:58 style of the brick to use on the building exterior.

22:57:03 We believe that we meet goal 13 of the comprehensive

22:57:09 plan which is to build a livable city, that enhances

22:57:12 the unique attributes through urban design.

22:57:15 The policies that we think we meet ensure the design of

22:57:18 the development is compatible with the development and

22:57:21 the cultural characteristics.

22:57:22 We think we do that, with this custom design, and with

22:57:26 the changes we made to the site plan.

22:57:33 You can ask the residents themselves, I don't know if

22:57:35 they are interested in a design that is ten times the

22:57:37 size of what we are proposing, or even 15 or 16 times

22:57:40 the size which is what you heard from staff could be

22:57:43 built there. We don't think that's in character with

22:57:45 the surrounding neighborhood.

22:57:53 With respect to the trees, we are replacing inch for

22:57:56 inch the trees we are removing, a number of the trees

22:57:59 being removed are considered in hazardous condition by

22:58:01 the city.

22:58:02 We are saving five grand trees plus the one on the




22:58:05 right-of-way.

22:58:08 We are talking about whether we can reconfigure the

22:58:11 site to comply with issues related to location of the

22:58:15 building.

22:58:16 I'm not sure if you can -- how you would have any

22:58:21 chance of doing that as well.

22:58:22 I am trying to go through this real quickly.

22:58:24 I know that Earl Connell is here who is the CVS

22:58:27 district manager responsible for 18 or 20 of these

22:58:30 locations.

22:58:30 And he was going to testify to that 12 to 13 permanent

22:58:34 positions will be created, the number of construction

22:58:37 jobs that will be created during the site, and his

22:58:39 commitment to make sure that the store manager follows

22:58:42 through with all the commitment to the community which

22:58:44 is keeping the parking lot clean, keeping the parking

22:58:47 lot well lit, making sure that -- those are the things

22:58:53 that CVS does in all their location and that's what

22:58:55 they commit to do in this location.

22:58:59 This application has been vetted and revetted by the

22:59:03 residents.

22:59:05 We met over and over with staff.




22:59:07 We have done the best that we think we can with what we

22:59:10 have to work with. It's not perfect, but we have come

22:59:13 up with a plan that we think should meet your approval.

22:59:16 We are asking for your approval here tonight.

22:59:18 We are available.

22:59:18 Our team is here to answer any questions you may have.

22:59:21 Thanks for your indulgence and consideration tonight.

22:59:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have a number of questions.

22:59:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just a couple questions.

22:59:40 I was trying to equate the drawing with the -- I mean

22:59:44 the picture, the rendering with the site plan.

22:59:52 Is that a little stem wall around the perimeter or

22:59:55 landscaping?

22:59:56 >> I'm sorry, Dana Gallagher, CVS.

23:00:00 It's actually a hedge line.

23:00:02 It's just plantings that we have, that part of the

23:00:05 landscape code for the city will require the perimeter

23:00:08 buffer, the landscape buffer.

23:00:10 That's a component of this.

23:00:15 We have a landscape plan that will get developed.

23:00:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Are there breaks in it?

23:00:19 >> Absolutely.




23:00:20 And there are specifics on the site plan itself.

23:00:23 You can see specifically -- it will be done in brick

23:00:28 pavers to lead the pedestrians from to the front door

23:00:32 to the sidewalk around the building.

23:00:33 >> And Mr. Shimberg, you went through a lengthy laundry

23:00:41 list of positive things, and I was trying to find them

23:00:48 on the site plan in one precise location.

23:00:51 Are they scattered?

23:00:53 Are they there?

23:00:54 Are they not there?

23:00:55 You know from all the years you have been here, if they

23:00:57 are not there, they don't mean anything.

23:00:59 So we need to just make sure they are all there.

23:01:03 >> And a lot of those items have been developed

23:01:05 basically since the last site plan, December 16th,

23:01:09 I believe, to now.

23:01:10 And our intention is to add all of those things that

23:01:14 are able to be added to the site plan, to the site plan

23:01:16 that comes back to you --

23:01:19 >> You had them on a list and if you initialed them and

23:01:25 we submit them into the record we could do it because

23:01:27 then we could incorporate that into the site plan for




23:01:30 second reading.

23:01:31 >>> I'm sorry, if I may, most of them are already on

23:01:33 the site plan.

23:01:34 They are just part of the design.

23:01:36 The pulloff for the buses is part of the design.

23:01:38 >>JULIA COLE: I'm sorry to interrupt.

23:01:42 That's part of the problem when I was trying to deal

23:01:43 with some of these issues, I keep hearing it kind of

23:01:46 getting layered back on and back off.

23:01:48 As you know an elevation is submitted as part of the

23:01:51 site plan process, it is not for the purposes of the

23:01:55 building looking that way, it is for the architectural

23:01:59 features, it's simply for the purposes of mass and

23:02:01 scale.

23:02:01 If there is intended to be conditions relating to how

23:02:05 it's going to look, we need to have -- we have to have

23:02:11 specific types of conditions that make it clear, when

23:02:14 we get to permitting, what those are supposed to mean.

23:02:17 And I've heard and seen a sheet from a gentleman in the

23:02:24 audience, I was looking on what he had on his sheet,

23:02:27 and they are very generalized, build with bricks, and

23:02:31 those can't have meaning when you get to the permitting




23:02:33 process.

23:02:35 And I'm really, really concerned.

23:02:37 And then I also heard Mr. Shimberg read off a list, and

23:02:42 typically we see a change sheet with those, that could

23:02:44 be made part of the record between first and second

23:02:47 reading, and those are the kinds of issues that we need

23:02:50 to be able to have.

23:02:51 So whatever is legal and enforceable.

23:02:55 >>JIM SHIMBERG: But also I think we have had this in

23:02:58 the past, when you have a situation where staff is

23:03:00 recommending it's inconsistent, you don't have a change

23:03:04 sheet.

23:03:04 They are not suggest field goal you make these changes.

23:03:06 And we are happy -- if council is inclined to favorably

23:03:11 consider this we'll go back and work with your staff or

23:03:14 come back and present with you a detailed list.

23:03:16 We don't have to do that tonight.

23:03:17 If you are inclined to move forward with this.

23:03:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, okay, okay.

23:03:26 I just need a question answered.

23:03:28 Okay.

23:03:29 Anyone else having a question?




23:03:30 My issue, I have some major issues from a legal

23:03:33 standpoint.

23:03:34 Let me just tell you.

23:03:37 I like CVS.

23:03:40 I purchase from there.

23:03:42 Saying it on the record.

23:03:44 I'm pro development.

23:03:46 But the bigger issue and the larger I shall is not

23:03:49 development.

23:03:50 The issue is not jobs.

23:03:51 The issue is the comprehensive plan and the urban

23:03:57 design as outlined.

23:04:03 In three years I have been here, I have never heard Ms.

23:04:06 Feeley make a presentation like she did tonight in

23:04:09 terms of the intensity, the intensity -- she's a very

23:04:12 good presenter, but listened very intently to the

23:04:19 intensity of the presentation, and then to have an

23:04:21 urban planner, I believe, come in.

23:04:24 I have been here three years.

23:04:25 I have never seen him come in and make a presentation

23:04:28 to us.

23:04:29 And then, which I understand is, you have a




23:04:32 comprehensive plan, you have staff not supporting it,

23:04:37 you have the county commission not supporting it.

23:04:39 We turn around and approve that.

23:04:42 Watch what happens.

23:04:43 We turn around and approve that.

23:04:46 Someone else comes in and wants to do that.

23:04:51 We got chaos legally.

23:04:56 So my issue is, you know, and I hear CVS saying we

23:05:09 can't do this.

23:05:10 Yes, you can do it.

23:05:11 You can do whatever you want to do when you want

23:05:13 customers and you want business.

23:05:16 You do it.

23:05:18 The issue is, and we have a comprehensive plan.

23:05:22 We have urban design.

23:05:25 We have a requirement.

23:05:26 And we have to be very careful.

23:05:30 And Seminole Heights needs to watch what's happening

23:05:36 because once that gets approved anything you do is

23:05:38 going to be thrown out, I'm telling you.

23:05:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Shimberg, did you meet with Mr.

23:05:52 Callahan and see what he proposed?




23:05:55 It's not that we don't support CVS.

23:05:57 It that what he showed us tonight does meet the

23:06:02 guidelines.

23:06:05 And that's what we would like to see there.

23:06:08 We would like the CVS and the configuration that meets

23:06:12 the design guidelines that Mr. Callahan showed, and

23:06:16 thinking that what might be productive is to continue

23:06:19 this to allow you to get beyond prototype B.

23:06:25 And to really -- you make many concessions, and the

23:06:29 neighbors I think are here because they appreciate the

23:06:31 fact that you have listened to them and made a number

23:06:33 of concessions that are meaningful, like the masonry

23:06:36 wall, like a number of things.

23:06:40 But I think that maybe the architect for CVS -- and I

23:06:44 know the corporations tend to be inflexible.

23:06:47 But as we all know, it's a new economy.

23:06:49 It's a tough economy.

23:06:51 And it's a new day.

23:06:52 And flexibility is the order of the day.

23:06:54 So I think perhaps the best thing would be a

23:06:57 continuance to allow you to take Michael Callahan's

23:07:02 plan back, and relocate the store.




23:07:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm not opposed to a continuance.

23:07:15 What I'm opposed to is if he already told us they are

23:07:18 not going to approve it, why continue it?

23:07:22 What I'm trying to say, if your client, Mr. Shimberg,

23:07:25 has determined, those in higher up, not the young lady

23:07:28 who is here trying to do the best she can to meet all

23:07:30 the criteria, and satisfy the Planning Commission, the

23:07:33 staff, neighborhood on this side, neighborhood on the

23:07:38 other side for and against, you have a tough job.

23:07:40 If he says they are going to tell me no, or they

23:07:44 already told me know, then what is the value of the

23:07:47 continuance?

23:07:48 Do you agree or disagree?

23:07:51 >>JIM SHIMBERG: I agree with what you are saying,

23:07:53 because what Ms. Gallagher and myself have been told is

23:07:58 that, okay, we will not move the building up to the

23:08:02 absolute corner to accommodate Mr. Callahan.

23:08:04 We had numerous meetings with in Callahan and the

23:08:06 staff.

23:08:07 This thing has evolved, and they can tell you it has

23:08:10 changed, and we changed it as much as we absolutely

23:08:12 could.




23:08:13 We never want to come before you and get inconsistent

23:08:18 recommendations from your staff and you do have the

23:08:19 ability to make your decision, and Mr. Scott is

23:08:22 correct, you don't want to go against your staff all

23:08:24 the time, but you have to make the decisions.

23:08:26 You heard from the residents.

23:08:27 You heard the arguments made in support of this and you

23:08:29 have to make your decision.

23:08:31 The form-based code is not approved yet.

23:08:33 The vision plan is not approved yet.

23:08:35 The comprehensive plan is approved but it has some

23:08:37 flexibility.

23:08:37 And you are the ones that have to interpret that.

23:08:40 And they may do it for you, but you make the final

23:08:43 decision.

23:08:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We are the decision maker, Mr.

23:08:46 Shimberg.

23:08:46 You should know now in 12 years with the opportunity to

23:08:49 work with someone, I do that.

23:08:51 But don't see that here in this case.

23:08:53 I'm just telling you because it took a comprehensive

23:08:55 plan at risk, it puts our code at risk, and then also




23:08:59 puts Seminole Heights, what in case they don't know it,

23:09:03 puts the whole plan at risk in the future, to be thrown

23:09:06 out, period.

23:09:07 And so my position is we ought to continue this to at

23:09:13 least give you the opportunity to go back and dialogue.

23:09:15 And you can always say come back later and say, no, we

23:09:17 don't want it.

23:09:18 It's better to do that than to ultimately deny and you

23:09:21 can't come back for a year.

23:09:23 I would much rather continue it, give you the

23:09:25 opportunity to go back, take another look at it, bring

23:09:28 it back so we can look at it, listen.

23:09:32 Again, I want to do what I can to help Seminole

23:09:35 Heights.

23:09:36 I want to do what I can to help this community.

23:09:38 We need jobs.

23:09:39 We need development.

23:09:40 But I'm not willing to do it at any cost or any risk

23:09:43 throwing out everything that we work hard for and staff

23:09:46 has brought to us.

23:09:48 We just adopted this comprehensive plan this year, this

23:09:52 past year.




23:09:53 It's more of a legal issue from my standpoint.

23:09:58 Yes?

23:10:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: As one of the gentlemen said, I

23:10:04 think it was Jeff, it does feel like deja vu in

23:10:10 Starbuck's.

23:10:11 Did you do Starbuck's, Jim?

23:10:13 To me there's a lot of parallels.

23:10:17 And I think there were different issues in Starbuck's,

23:10:20 but it wasn't a precisely meeting code, that they were

23:10:26 all caffeined up that night anyway.

23:10:28 [ Laughter ]

23:10:29 But, anyway, so to me, it has a lot of similarities.

23:10:36 I have a different take on this notion of the

23:10:39 comprehensive plan.

23:10:42 You know, as I read these provisions in the

23:10:44 comprehensive plan pages 2 through 3, 4 of our staff

23:10:50 report, it's not precise code, okay.

23:10:55 It's sort of Lucy goosy stuff because that's what the

23:10:59 comp plan is, respect Tampa's scale and that sort of

23:11:03 thing, relate the buildings to the context of the

23:11:05 neighborhood and the community.

23:11:07 That's the way you write a comprehensive plan.




23:11:09 Then the next thing do you is you write a code, and you

23:11:12 put in the chapter 27.

23:11:13 And that's what we are in the process of doing right

23:11:15 now.

23:11:16 So in terms of precedent, I think there's a very good

23:11:18 arguable position that because the code hasn't been

23:11:22 adopted yet that we are still sort of in the state of

23:11:26 flux and the state of change.

23:11:28 And I think that we have a good argument in that

23:11:31 regard.

23:11:34 But that's --

23:11:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Go ahead, I'm sorry.

23:11:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's just my humble opinion.

23:11:39 And I don't think there's no pure answer to that, as

23:11:45 you said, Tom.

23:11:46 But anyway, looking at the bigger picture, you know,

23:11:52 these are difficult economic times.

23:11:55 There's nothing under construction.

23:11:57 You know, I was like so thrilled that -- I guess it was

23:12:03 a big ALS facility next to Gorrie Elementary.

23:12:07 It's under construction.

23:12:08 It's like, oh, my gosh, there's something actually




23:12:11 under construction in our community.

23:12:13 It just puts a smile on my face.

23:12:16 Most of us went to see the President Obama, that other

23:12:21 president today, and he talked about compromises and

23:12:27 that sort of thing, and how important it is to, in

23:12:31 government, to compromise.

23:12:32 I'm not saying we should compromise our values.

23:12:35 We should compromise, you know, our moralities and that

23:12:38 sort of thing.

23:12:39 Those core things.

23:12:40 But I think that when it comes to this, I think

23:12:44 especially in these difficult economic times, I think

23:12:47 we have to consider compromise.

23:12:49 Then what do I do?

23:12:50 I say, okay, let me listen to that neighborhood.

23:12:55 All right, let me listen to that neighborhood and see

23:12:57 if that neighborhood is willing to compromise.

23:12:59 And I don't usually count heads.

23:13:00 But I have got to tell you it is somewhat persuasive

23:13:03 that it appears that the majority of that neighborhood,

23:13:05 who has signed the petitions and come out tonight, is

23:13:08 willing to compromise.




23:13:10 They are probably not thrilled either.

23:13:12 They would probably see it be up in the corner but at

23:13:16 the end of the day they want the CVS the same way they

23:13:18 wanted a Starbuck's.

23:13:19 It's not perfect.

23:13:21 It's getting closer.

23:13:22 The other thing is persuasive is Ms. Gallagher, who was

23:13:27 under oath, she said she was under oath, I think, you

23:13:30 know, I think she sounds like a pretty progressive

23:13:33 architect or builder or whatever she is, and she went

23:13:37 to her corporate people.

23:13:38 And I hate that corporate mind-set, Linda.

23:13:41 I hate it.

23:13:41 It like we just do plan A, B or C, that's it.

23:13:45 Cookie cutters.

23:13:46 I hate it.

23:13:46 Most of the time we fought it in better economic times.

23:13:49 But in these difficult economic times, sometimes maybe

23:13:52 we just have to say, okay, you know, you got us on this

23:13:57 one, go ahead and do it because the neighborhood

23:14:00 really, really wants a CVS, and they want new

23:14:03 development, and they want, you know, they want that




23:14:07 economic positive things going on in their community.

23:14:15 So, anyway, I think, you know, we can do it.

23:14:20 As Charlie said, we can do a continuance.

23:14:23 But I agree with Charlie, from all indications, from

23:14:27 Ms. Gallagher, you know, even if she went back to

23:14:30 corporate, I don't know that they would change their

23:14:33 mind even if she took it back.

23:14:35 So where do we end up?

23:14:37 Anyway, that's how I feel.

23:14:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I am going -- most of the time,

23:14:43 based on the comprehensive plan, and I'm surprised,

23:14:46 councilman.

23:14:50 When we make our decision we base it on staff

23:14:52 recommendation and the comprehensive plan that is

23:14:53 before us.

23:14:54 If that is the case, then we need to throw out the

23:14:56 comprehensive plan and say it don't mean anything.

23:14:59 I need to hear from Julia, our attorney.

23:15:02 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, I have had my hand

23:15:06 up for ten minutes.

23:15:08 Evidently the car lot is going to stay there for

23:15:11 another ten years.




23:15:12 And I don't care if the form-based zoning has been

23:15:14 approved or not.

23:15:15 But we do have urban design in this building, and we

23:15:19 need to move on.

23:15:20 I mean, we are wasting our time.

23:15:22 I got a 45-minute ride to go home.

23:15:28 No streetcar.

23:15:29 It doesn't go up there.

23:15:33 But I'm ready to vote on this and I'll vote yes.

23:15:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Ms. Cole, could you come speak to the

23:15:39 legal issue? I think councilman Dingfelder raised the

23:15:41 issue from a legal standpoint that comprehensive plan

23:15:46 is kind of loose.

23:15:48 I need to you speak to this.

23:15:49 >> Well, your comprehensive plan says what it says, and

23:15:52 all development that occurs within the city of

23:15:54 development must be consistent with it.

23:15:57 Yes.

23:15:57 What occurred is you have a comprehensive plan, and you

23:16:00 go through the process of implementing through your

23:16:03 chapter 27.

23:16:04 However, until the time that occurs, you are measuring




23:16:07 this against your comprehensive plan.

23:16:09 It is my opinion that if you were to deny this project

23:16:12 on the basis of your comprehensive plan, that would be

23:16:15 legally defensible.

23:16:16 >> Or, the flip side?

23:16:17 >> Flip side --

23:16:19 >> We approve this under the comprehensive plan.

23:16:23 You could defend that, too.

23:16:25 >> I could defend that, too.

23:16:27 But -- no, let me continue when I say that.

23:16:30 But here is the thing, is you have your professional

23:16:32 staff indicating to you that it is inconsistent with

23:16:34 your comprehensive plan, in addition you have your

23:16:37 professional staff telling you that it's inconsistent

23:16:39 with the PD criteria, but that is what you measure

23:16:42 against all of these things, and you have a

23:16:45 comprehensive plan, you recently changed, and you

23:16:48 recently changed to support more -- put more teeth into

23:16:51 it and that is what occurred.

23:16:53 I do feel compelled to say one other thing.

23:16:56 Whether City Council makes a decision tonight to go

23:16:58 ahead and approve this on first reading, I understand




23:17:02 there's a rendering.

23:17:03 I have no conditions to enforce that rendering.

23:17:06 There was a couple of things written.

23:17:08 I was willing to try and assist this process by going

23:17:11 ahead and drafting that in such a way that would be

23:17:15 defensible that we could actually enforce against that.

23:17:18 But -- I just wanted to make that clear, because that

23:17:24 is something we cannot do tonight.

23:17:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The other issue, council, is let me

23:17:33 remind you, as I do often, your decision needs to be

23:17:36 based on competent, substantial evidence.

23:17:40 Now, there were references made to specific provisions

23:17:42 of the comprehensive plan by people who testified, and

23:17:46 they gave their opinion on that.

23:17:47 Now, with regard to the decision as to whether or not

23:17:52 there are provisions in the comprehensive plan that

23:17:54 might support this, the question is, did you hear any

23:17:56 testimony as to what those provisions were, and to

23:18:00 whether or not you can base your decision on competent,

23:18:03 substantial evidence?

23:18:04 Ultimately, that is where -- whatever decision this

23:18:06 council makes to be legally sustainable.




23:18:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Chairman, I would like to move

23:18:12 that we continue this till the first evening meeting in

23:18:15 March at 6:00.

23:18:18 I don't believe we have enough votes here to move this

23:18:23 one way or the other.

23:18:24 I believe that whatever happens, our legal staff feels

23:18:27 compelled to get stuff in writing.

23:18:31 And I guess my motion would be to close the public

23:18:34 hearing but continue it.

23:18:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I don't know if they agree to the

23:18:38 continuance or not.

23:18:39 >>JIM SHIMBERG: Continuing it for the purpose of

23:18:44 continuing it and not having any indication -- you want

23:18:47 to us work with staff?

23:18:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No, my reason for continuing it

23:18:50 would be for you to go back one final time to the

23:18:53 corporate folks at CVS and say that our land use staff

23:18:58 makes a recommendation that this be the location of the

23:19:02 store, that's what it needs to be to comport with our

23:19:04 comprehensive plan.

23:19:06 That will be the reason.

23:19:09 And the City Council wanted to support a comprehensive




23:19:12 plan in this way.

23:19:13 Because before it was just speculative, you were trying

23:19:16 to make the neighbors happy.

23:19:17 Now you have had an opportunity to hear council

23:19:20 members' concerns reflected, a and this might change

23:19:24 thing.

23:19:24 Because if not I'll make a motion for denial.

23:19:26 >>JIM SHIMBERG: Okay.

23:19:29 The gentleman from CVS corporate wants to say one thing

23:19:32 real quick to answer your question.

23:19:34 But let me understand.

23:19:35 You are asking us to continue this, go back, show them

23:19:38 that and come back and tell you yes or no, hear more

23:19:43 testimony, and then vote it up or down at that point?

23:19:45 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It would have to be reopened to find

23:19:50 out --

23:19:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay.

23:19:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If it's going to be continued you

23:19:54 would not close the public hearing.

23:19:55 >>> Kyle.

23:20:06 I opened up 12 projects.

23:20:08 And this one here in particular I have been really in




23:20:11 tune with.

23:20:12 I know for sure that tonight, if we do not get what we

23:20:16 need tonight, the project will be moved on to another

23:20:20 project, or to another store.

23:20:24 Now, I opened a store last year, in another community.

23:20:26 And I can only tell you, single moms desperate for work

23:20:30 are working there now.

23:20:31 I walk in that store.

23:20:33 "thank you for opening the store."

23:20:35 I see the same thing in Seminole Heights.

23:20:36 I see the same thing in our community, that we can

23:20:38 bring jobs, security, people that can walk to work.

23:20:43 Let this happen.

23:20:44 Because I'm the one that takes over the store, when the

23:20:50 project is done, I train people, we get it done, treat

23:20:53 the customers well, keep our customers healthy.

23:20:56 Don't let this go back to the board again because I

23:21:00 know it's not going to happen, because I have been in

23:21:03 the conference calls.

23:21:07 That's what we need to make it work.

23:21:08 >>JIM SHIMBERG: He's saying they are not going to be

23:21:14 able to change the location of the store which is what




23:21:16 Mr. Callahan is asking us to do, so we would just be

23:21:19 coming back in six weeks to tell you that they have

23:21:21 gone back and they said that's the way we have to do

23:21:24 it, and then you have to vote.

23:21:25 So I understand staff's position.

23:21:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Is it better than a car lot?

23:21:33 Yes, there's in a doubt.

23:21:34 In the old days, it would take an overriding majority,

23:21:37 super majority, and somehow it changed.

23:21:41 It used to be in order to override the Planning

23:21:44 Commission or city staff you needed five votes, not

23:21:47 four.

23:21:48 To approve.

23:21:49 That has changed.

23:21:51 It changed sometime between -- I don't know when it

23:21:58 happened but it happened.

23:21:59 It was not in this form it is now.

23:22:04 Is it going to be something better than what we have?

23:22:06 I don't really know.

23:22:09 If Suzy walks away, W. comes in because they have done

23:22:15 their due diligence.

23:22:16 Where you see one, you see the other.




23:22:19 Exxon Mobil.

23:22:21 When you see a shell, you see a B.P.

23:22:24 It's a competitive market.

23:22:26 The whole thing, the whole way of life now is the

23:22:29 bottom line.

23:22:30 And I understand that you all have done your due

23:22:32 diligence.

23:22:33 I appreciate that.

23:22:34 But that's one side of it.

23:22:36 On the other side of me here, I have had to deal with

23:22:39 myself, and what we passed on that comprehensive plan.

23:22:43 It's not easy to say no.

23:22:47 It is much difficult to say no than to say yes.

23:22:51 I understand that.

23:22:54 But we -- I can't speak for everybody but we, I,

23:23:01 others, I guess, are looking at this as the opportunity

23:23:04 of productivity -- missed productivity for both of us.

23:23:10 You may not get your store and we may have that car lot

23:23:12 for another couple of years or ten years.

23:23:14 But the question becomes, why did we pass what we

23:23:17 passed?

23:23:17 Why did we adhere to what we adhered to?




23:23:20 You can't change go trout fishing at the Hillsborough

23:23:29 River and get fried chicken or something out of the

23:23:32 ocean.

23:23:32 It doesn't happen.

23:23:33 And I know it's a sad position you are in and I think

23:23:36 you have done an excellent job in making your

23:23:38 presentation for your client.

23:23:39 And I appreciate it very much.

23:23:41 But it's not about the time of night.

23:23:44 I could stay here till all hours of the morning.

23:23:46 But what I'm saying is, somewhere along the line, some

23:23:50 elected officials say this is what it's going to be,

23:23:54 and those are the guidelines that I'm looking at.

23:23:57 Certainly I would like to see Metropolitan Ministries

23:24:00 have four.

23:24:01 But this is not about Metropolitan Ministries.

23:24:03 It's about what we did to ourselves, what we put on the

23:24:06 record.

23:24:07 I have to live with this.

23:24:11 And that's the dilemma I'm in.

23:24:12 Do I want to see it?

23:24:13 Yes.




23:24:14 But I also have to comply with something that I myself

23:24:18 more than likely voted for.

23:24:19 >> Can I ask you one question?

23:24:22 If you would like to continue this to give me an

23:24:25 opportunity to come back and do a better job to explain

23:24:27 to you why it is consistent with the comprehensive plan

23:24:29 I'm happy to do that.

23:24:30 That's not going to move the building but I may not

23:24:33 have done a good job of explaining that council member

23:24:35 Scott and others and Mr. Dingfelder understand that you

23:24:38 guys interpret the comprehensive plan.

23:24:40 They are the experts but you don't have follow them.

23:24:44 I could do a better job of going through every single

23:24:46 policy that makes them Kintz.

23:24:47 >> I never said you didn't do a good job.

23:24:51 You did an excellent job.

23:24:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: You did an excellent job.

23:24:54 >> But it's what you have to work with that we

23:24:57 determine where it comes in and where it comes out.

23:24:59 What is right and what is wrong.

23:25:01 It certainly would be an enhancement.

23:25:05 When I look at an entryway into a city which Nebraska




23:25:08 Avenue is, see used cars.

23:25:21 A used car there, there?

23:25:27 It's something that's very difficult to vote on.

23:25:29 And we ourselves put ourselves in this position.

23:25:37 Not you.

23:25:38 Not CVS.

23:25:39 Not the neighborhood.

23:25:40 We did it.

23:25:43 And it up to us to either do or not do.

23:25:48 And here is where the difficulty comes in, sir.

23:25:51 >>JIM SHIMBERG: I think you have a window of

23:25:56 opportunity to make the decision that you can interpret

23:25:57 and still be consistent.

23:25:58 But the form-based code is not in place.

23:26:00 The vision plan --

23:26:04 >> It's not about form-based code right now.

23:26:06 No, it's not.

23:26:07 It's about the comprehensive plan.

23:26:09 It's about what about what the city planners put on the

23:26:12 record.

23:26:13 It's about what the gentleman put on the record.

23:26:15 It's about a lot of other things.




23:26:17 It's like a vegetable soup any vegetables in it yet.

23:26:22 It's getting there.

23:26:24 And I see people shaking their heads.

23:26:27 You know, I can only do -- I cannot do what we have

23:26:30 done in a couple hours.

23:26:32 I just can't do it.

23:26:35 That's just me.

23:26:36 >> You know, I'm very passionate about the

23:26:51 comprehensive plan, and maybe perhaps what Seminole

23:26:58 Heights is supporting.

23:27:03 I'm trying to keep the plan in place so that it is not

23:27:05 thrown out by the next person that comes in.

23:27:08 And you are going to have what you don't want.

23:27:11 With this, with the doors opening up, you are in it a

23:27:17 whole lot more that you don't really want to have

23:27:20 because it going to go to court, and they are going to

23:27:23 throw it out.

23:27:25 Okay.

23:27:25 And so I just can't support what's been said tonight.

23:27:32 Yes?

23:27:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move to close the

23:27:35 public hearing.




23:27:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

23:27:45 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

23:27:48 Okay.

23:27:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This is tough, because the people

23:27:52 who live in Seminole Heights have individually spent so

23:27:56 much energy on their home, the residential parts of

23:27:59 Seminole Heights are fantastic.

23:28:00 You spent years coming up with a plan, and now

23:28:03 everybody has agreed that the final improvement of the

23:28:06 commercial area, and it's very tough not to say yes to

23:28:12 this.

23:28:13 But based on the recommendation of the Planning

23:28:15 Commission staff, and the city staff, which do I need

23:28:21 to say them out loud?

23:28:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is the staff report the one you are

23:28:27 making reference to in the staff report?

23:28:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And I truly believe that the

23:28:30 petitioner has worked in good -- diligently with the

23:28:36 neighborhood to satisfy their needs, which is why there

23:28:39 are so many of them here tonight supporting of this.

23:28:41 But I just feel like this is not the right thing for

23:28:43 the neighborhood.




23:28:44 So based on the Tampa comprehensive plan goal 13,

23:28:55 objective 13-1 -- do I need to read all of this, Mr.

23:28:58 Shelby?

23:29:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You can make reference to the

23:29:02 provisions in the staff report.

23:29:03 You don't have to do each one of them individually.

23:29:05 But you are talking about -- if you wish to, you can

23:29:08 make reference to the findings if you wish that are on

23:29:14 specific changes.

23:29:15 >>JULIA COLE: What I would recommend is there's a

23:29:18 number of objectives in the policies that are set forth

23:29:20 in the Planning Commission, staff report.

23:29:23 If you want to just make reference to the objectives

23:29:26 and the associated policy that's support for your

23:29:29 position, that would be adequate.

23:29:32 In addition, if you would like to just reference the

23:29:35 general PD criteria, that would be acceptable as well.

23:29:38 But I would start with the comprehensive plan

23:29:40 provisions.

23:29:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The report from the Planning

23:29:43 Commission recognizes the following issues, consistency

23:29:51 with furthering the intent of our comp plan, urban




23:29:53 design objective 13.1, policy 13.1.3, new buildings and

23:30:00 development in the context of the neighborhood and

23:30:01 community, policy 13 .1.16, small development, policy

23:30:10 13.1.10, urban villages, which is objective 15.1,

23:30:18 supporting the -- support the urban village

23:30:20 designations, policy 15.1.3, policy 15.1.4, mobility

23:30:30 choices, 15.1.5 place, 16.1, mixed use corridor

23:30:39 villages, policy 16.1.1, redeveloping oriented corners,

23:30:48 16.1.5, corridor development, 16.1.9, redevelopment,

23:30:53 objective 18.4 compatible development, and then in our

23:31:00 staff recommendations, request for the waivers.

23:31:07 There were a number of waivers that were asked for.

23:31:10 Section 27-324.

23:31:20 Is that enough?

23:31:23 1 through 4.

23:31:27 And also the provisions under the PD section 27-321.6,

23:31:33 promote and encourage compatibility where appropriate,

23:31:35 and than compatibility with the surrounding

23:31:38 neighborhood.

23:31:39 And open space density, 27.321 (2).

23:31:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Legislature says we have to have a

23:31:51 comprehensive motion when you are denying so that's




23:31:53 what Mrs. Saul-Sena was saying.

23:31:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.

23:31:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?

23:31:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.

23:32:03 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: If we are going to be the next

23:32:05 great city, we can't be doing stuff like this, because

23:32:08 we are going to be the same old city with a used car

23:32:11 lot, and maybe we'll have a flea market there that

23:32:13 might even be better.

23:32:16 All right?

23:32:17 We have got to get off the dime.

23:32:19 It's not right.

23:32:21 You have got a business.

23:32:22 You heard the president today saying he wants to create

23:32:25 jobs.

23:32:28 Okay.

23:32:31 Mr. Dingfelder --

23:32:33 >> Don't yell.

23:32:36 >> I'm not yelling.

23:32:37 This city is being run backwards.

23:32:39 For years.

23:32:42 Move the motion, Mr. Chairman.




23:32:43 >> (off microphone).

23:32:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: He's talking about the original

23:32:56 motion.

23:32:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's moved and seconded.

23:32:58 All in favor?

23:33:00 Opposes?

23:33:01 The motion fails.

23:33:03 >>THE CLERK: The motion did not carry with Caetano and

23:33:05 Dingfelder voting no and Miller and Mulhern being

23:33:08 absent.

23:33:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It will be continued to our next

23:33:11 regular meeting.

23:33:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Actually, council, the motion, to be

23:33:15 more specific, did not fail, it did not get the

23:33:18 required four votes.

23:33:19 So under rule 4-C, if a motion to approve, deny or

23:33:29 continue an ordinance or resolution fails to receive at

23:33:31 least four votes either in support or opposition, it

23:33:33 shall automatically be brought before council at the

23:33:36 next regular council meeting as unfinished business.

23:33:39 Again the public hearing is closed.

23:33:41 I will notify the offices of council, Mulhern and




23:33:50 Miller to have the opportunity to review the record and

23:33:52 see if they can be prepared to vote at the next regular

23:33:55 meeting.

23:33:55 >> What's the date?

23:33:57 >> The next regular meeting is next Thursday, February

23:33:59 4th, sometime after 10:30 a.m.

23:34:02 >>JULIA COLE: We have another item after this.

23:34:09 Given the vote on this I am going to recommend that

23:34:12 this item be continued.

23:34:13 >> Move to continue item 7, is it?

23:34:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 6.

23:34:23 Motion and second.

23:34:23 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

23:34:25 Opposes?

23:34:28 Okay.

23:34:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That will be continued again till

23:34:31 February 4 another 10:30, staff reports at 10:30 a.m.

23:34:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 6.

23:34:45 Item 6.

23:34:46 Okay.

23:34:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just so that we are all clear, Mr.

23:34:53 Miranda made a motion to open all the public hearings




23:34:56 tonight.

23:34:56 So that one has been opened and it is being continued.

23:34:59 So it won't have to be reopened.

23:35:01 It's already been opened and will just be a continued

23:35:03 process.

23:35:04 We are talking about the associated alcoholic beverage.

23:35:12 Mr. Shimberg, is that agreeable?

23:35:17 Is that understood, sir?

23:35:19 Okay.

23:35:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Under new business, council, we voted

23:35:22 this morning, just to make it clear, on the 25th

23:35:25 we'll have the invitation to the council to attend the

23:35:30 women's history month, celebration held on March

23:35:32 2nd.

23:35:36 Commendation for supporting the mayor's proclamation,

23:35:40 recognizing the recipient of the Josephine Stafford

23:35:48 award, that the resolution be adopted at the February

23:35:52 25th meeting.

23:35:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's a mouthful.

23:35:59 >> All those in favor say Aye.

23:36:01 Opposed, Nay.

23:36:01 Passed unanimously.




23:36:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other business to come before

23:36:05 council?

23:36:06 >>THE CLERK: Mr. Chairman, there was a motion which

23:36:08 was not disposed of earlier about the written report

23:36:12 from the administration in 60 days.

23:36:15 There was discussion it was not completed.

23:36:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Oh, on the boundaries of the Hyde

23:36:20 Park historic district, staff report.

23:36:22 >>THE CLERK: It was actually seconded by Mr. Caetano.

23:36:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: To be here to explain it.

23:36:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Are you requesting -- I'm sorry to

23:36:31 ask, but are you asking to be specifically to address

23:36:36 the redrawing of the boundaries of that plan, or to

23:36:40 explain how that plan boundaries were --

23:36:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The request is to ask staff to

23:36:46 consider redrawing the boundaries to be more inclusive

23:36:49 of the national historic district.

23:36:50 >>JULIA COLE: That's a whole on the discussion than if

23:36:54 you just wanted a report.

23:36:55 The process would be City Council would actually have

23:36:58 to make a motion to request Historic Preservation

23:37:00 Commission place on the work plan the redrawing of the




23:37:05 district.

23:37:05 >> So let's just have an explanation of why the

23:37:07 boundaries are drawn --

23:37:11 >>JULIA COLE: That would be better.

23:37:12 >> When do you want it?

23:37:13 >> It just an explanation.

23:37:17 In 30 days.

23:37:18 >> Moved and seconded.

23:37:19 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

23:37:21 Opposes?

23:37:21 Okay.

23:37:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move that we allow myself to give

23:37:27 a commendation to students from South America attending

23:37:29 USF.

23:37:30 They will be here.

23:37:31 We just send them out.

23:37:34 We'll do it in the back.

23:37:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

23:37:36 Moved and seconded.

23:37:37 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

23:37:39 Opposes?

23:37:40 Motion to receive and file?




23:37:42 >> So moved.

23:37:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

23:37:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?

23:37:45 Opposes?

23:37:45 Anything else to come before council?

23:37:46 Anything else?

23:37:47 Anything else, attorneys?

23:37:49 Okay, then, we stand adjourned.

23:37:50 Thank you.

23:37:51 (Meeting adjourned)





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