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TAMPA CITY COUNCIL

Thursday, February 18, 2010

9:00 a.m. session



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09:05:21 >>GWEN MILLER: The chair will yield to Mr. Charlie

09:05:25 Miranda.

09:05:25 >> Thank you, Madam Chair.

09:05:29 This morning we have an individual who started working

09:05:31 for the city years ago, then was smart enough to go on

09:05:34 his own.

09:05:42 He's a good friend of the community and has always done

09:05:45 outstanding work.

09:05:46 I see him once in a while at the Y.
09:05:49 He's here today to say the morning prayer.

09:05:51 Mr. Steve Michelini.

09:05:53 Please stand and rise for the prayer, remain standing

09:05:56 for the pledge of allegiance.

09:05:58 >>STEVE MICHELINI: We wish that those who wish to join

09:06:02 us for the invocation to do so.

09:06:04 In the beginning there was God and he created the

09:06:06 heavens and the earth, and got saw that it was good.

09:06:09 And God created two great lights, one greater for the

09:06:15 day and lesser for the night.

09:06:17 God created all things of life following each one in

09:06:20 his image and God blessed them all and he saw that

09:06:22 everything was good.

09:06:24 And so we now call upon the great giver of life, the

09:06:27 almighty God to bring those blessings and power and

09:06:30 bestow upon you the humble public and private servants

09:06:35 in your all holy and powerful name for there is no

09:06:39 authority that is greater except for the greater good

09:06:42 and power that comes from the glory of God.

09:06:44 We ask that you bring your blessings upon council and

09:06:48 all those who appear before it.

09:06:50 In his name amen.




09:06:52 (Pledge of Allegiance).

09:07:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Roll call.

09:07:09 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.

09:07:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.

09:07:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.

09:07:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.

09:07:24 >>GWEN MILLER: At this time we need a motion to adopt

09:07:26 the minutes.

09:07:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.

09:07:29 >>GWEN MILLER: We need a second.

09:07:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second: We have a motion and

09:07:33 second.

09:07:35 At this time I would turn it over to Charlie Miranda to

09:07:37 present a commendation.

09:07:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair.

09:07:57 Honorable chairwoman Miller, council members, it's my

09:08:00 pleasure this morning to be making this commendation to

09:08:02 a young lady named Barbara Kendrick.

09:08:13 Barbara comes from the Baromi family, was with raised

09:08:17 in Tampa and attended -- when her and I went to school

09:08:21 there was really only two high schools, plant and

09:08:24 Hillsborough, and then her and I went to Jefferson.




09:08:26 It was an extension of the homes.

09:08:28 She started working with the city on August 11th,

09:08:32 1965.

09:08:34 Under then make Nick Nuccio.

09:08:37 And she had a whopping salary of $1.24 an hour.

09:08:46 She has served 45 years, worked in many different

09:08:50 duties, did a lot of typing on something called manual,

09:08:56 and that wasn't her boyfriend, it was a manual

09:09:01 typewriter.

09:09:01 She was a switchboard operator.

09:09:03 She did handle complaints, worked for the

09:09:06 transportation, and let me tell you just a few of the

09:09:09 directors that she has trained, and one of them is here

09:09:14 today.

09:09:18 Mike salmon, Steve tins Dale, Bausch Wallace, Jack

09:09:24 Morris and IRV Lee.

09:09:28 This commendation is in essence is what I just stated,

09:09:31 for her outstanding ability to work with all these

09:09:34 individuals, all these different personalities and a

09:09:37 survive 45 years under that.

09:09:41 They are really nice people, and I knew most of those.

09:09:45 I remember Nick Nuccio just like you do.




09:09:48 He's the only guy that could speak English and Spanish

09:09:52 and still got elected mayor.

09:09:54 [ Laughter ]

09:09:55 He would tell you something like this.

09:10:02 It's my pleasure, and not being disrespectful to the

09:10:06 mayor because he did something I never could do.

09:10:09 My pleasure.

09:10:10 Thank you very much.

09:10:11 [ Applause ]

09:10:19 >> I thank you, and I had a great 45 years with the

09:10:27 city, and it's an honor to serve the citizens.

09:10:30 Thank you.

09:10:32 [ Applause ]

09:10:33 Mr. Dingfelder has a commendation.

09:10:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: While he's coming up I would like

09:10:44 to remind council members we need to schedule

09:10:47 commendations on the fourth Thursday in the month in

09:10:49 the future.

09:10:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Good morning, council.

09:10:57 Good morning, Mr. Armijo, who comes to us without need

09:11:02 for introduction.

09:11:04 Well, I will introduce him.




09:11:05 Of course, David is head of our bus and transit

09:11:09 service, Hillsborough area regional transit (Hart.

09:11:21 )

09:11:22 I abbreviated it to Hart to be snappy.

09:11:26 They have been doing a lot of things lately and they

09:11:29 have been recognized by the Florida Department of

09:11:32 Transportation system, as the part of the Florida

09:11:35 Department of Transportation system of the year award,

09:11:38 and now we are like miss Florida, we are moving on to

09:11:44 national.

09:11:48 To the national ranks.

09:11:49 With that I am going to read this commendation from

09:11:51 council and ask David to say a few words on behalf of

09:11:56 Hart.

09:11:58 We congratulate transit Hart on receiving the

09:12:01 prestigious in a transportation system of the year

09:12:03 award.

09:12:03 Hart achieved this honor through high marks and

09:12:08 efficiency, effectiveness, customer service, and

09:12:10 financial management.

09:12:12 In addition, achievements in safety, staff development,

09:12:15 marketing and community relations were evaluated in




09:12:19 Hart's qualifying for this coveted tribute.

09:12:22 Council applauds heart on this singular achievement and

09:12:25 believes that Hart, driven to serve you, is much more

09:12:28 than just a slogan.

09:12:29 Congratulations, David.

09:12:33 [ Applause ]

09:12:36 >> Thank you very much.

09:12:37 On behalf of the 734 employees of Hart, who work up to

09:12:43 seven days a week and up to 24 hours a day, we do have

09:12:47 extended service now 24 hours a day seven days a week.

09:12:50 They are doing a great job.

09:12:51 They transported 13 million people last year on our

09:12:54 buses, both local, express, the Teco streetcar which

09:13:00 ridership is up over last year and carries a number of

09:13:04 people there, and most importantly our Hart-plus

09:13:07 service.

09:13:08 Many of you folks for the disabled throughout our

09:13:12 community.

09:13:12 It's been a very challenging time here.

09:13:13 This award means a lot to the people of Hart.

09:13:16 In our 30 years we have never been recognized.

09:13:19 There's only 200 systems in the State of Florida, being




09:13:22 the fourth largest state and being number one is really

09:13:25 an important achievement for us, and something that we

09:13:27 are really looking forward to.

09:13:28 Most importantly, this award was done based on

09:13:32 quantitative measures, meaning measurable goals, both

09:13:35 ridership and cost attainment.

09:13:37 We are recognized both now locally, regionally, and in

09:13:40 Florida, and we are looking at being recognized

09:13:42 nationally, and we hope that this year will perhaps be

09:13:45 a shot at being number one for our system size.

09:13:48 With that, I really appreciate all the support this

09:13:50 council has provided to us.

09:13:53 Thank you very much for the award.

09:13:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to underscore the

09:13:57 congratulations of council and say that as we look

09:14:00 toward the referendum in November on a transit count,

09:14:04 the fact that you are so well administered and the fact

09:14:08 that the ridership is up all speaks well to the

09:14:15 competence of transit.

09:14:16 I was just saying, but we need more buses.

09:14:18 It takes too long to get from here to there because we

09:14:21 don't have more.




09:14:22 That is not a reflection on you, that's a reflection on

09:14:25 our ability to fund you better to provide additional

09:14:27 transit service.

09:14:28 So the ball is in our court.

09:14:30 Thank you for doing such an excellent job of running

09:14:33 our transit system.

09:14:33 >> Thank you.

09:14:36 I appreciate that.

09:14:37 [ Applause ]

09:14:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: One thing I was going to say, Madam

09:14:43 Chair and Linda, a lot of people don't realize, they

09:14:47 think the referendum is just about building a rail

09:14:49 line, which it is, but it also about increasing the bus

09:14:52 fleet and increasing the number of buses that will be

09:14:56 running per hour, and the whole bus system is going to

09:15:00 be upgraded tremendously if that referendum passes.

09:15:04 I just want to mention that as well.

09:15:05 Thank you, David.

09:15:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.

09:15:11 >>GWEN MILLER: At this time we are going to our

09:15:15 attorney, over the amended agenda.

09:15:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The addendum to the agenda.




09:15:23 Good morning.

09:15:24 Before you, you have today's addendum to the agenda.

09:15:28 First off is a request on item 41, which is on

09:15:34 committee reports, and that's a request to move that to

09:15:37 the staff reports at 10:30 so you can have a brief

09:15:40 presentation made by staff about the comprehensive

09:15:42 annual financial report.

09:15:46 The next request would be item 68.

09:15:51 And the petitioner is here.

09:15:52 It's a resolution to set a public hearing on April

09:15:55 1st to vacate a right-of-way.

09:16:01 The petitioner is requesting that that be changed, that

09:16:04 date, from April 1st to April 15th.

09:16:07 I will also point out, council, if you look at your

09:16:10 calendar for April, you have no afternoon meeting on

09:16:15 April 1st, which means -- and I notice that with

09:16:18 regard to items 66, 67 and 68, those are all hearings

09:16:25 to vacate rights-of-way, and they are all set for April

09:16:29 1st, including this item number 68 which is being

09:16:32 requested to change to April 15th.

09:16:33 So if in fact you do pass item 66, 67, you will be

09:16:38 creating an afternoon meeting on April 1st whereas




09:16:41 you do not have one now.

09:16:42 I don't know whether that's council's intent to do

09:16:45 that.

09:16:46 So if you wish to do that, have an afternoon meeting,

09:16:54 otherwise could you change all of them, 66, 67, 68 to

09:16:59 the afternoon if you wish, if on the 15th, if you

09:17:02 wish to avoid having a meeting on April 1st which I

09:17:05 believe was council's intention.

09:17:06 That being said, that would be a suggestion, in

09:17:09 addition to item number 68, and the petitioner has

09:17:12 brought that to our attention that he wishes to have

09:17:13 that date changed.

09:17:15 So is that council's plan?

09:17:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 66 and 67.

09:17:21 Anyone want to make a motion?

09:17:23 Want to make a motion to change those two?

09:17:25 >> So moved ... (off microphone).

09:17:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.

09:17:34 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And we'll find out before then, I

09:17:38 think.

09:17:39 Do you want to vote on that particular change?

09:17:41 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second to change




09:17:43 item 66, 67 and 68 to April 15th.

09:17:47 All in favor of the motion say Aye.

09:17:48 Opposed, Nay.

09:17:49 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.

09:17:51 Item 72 is a substitute ordinance that is being

09:17:59 presented,.

09:18:09 Item number 78 is a report on a proposed roadway on

09:18:14 Gandy Boulevard.

09:18:15 There's been a request by the director of public works,

09:18:21 and services to continue that to March 4th, 2010.

09:18:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Madam Chairman.

09:18:31 Well, Ms. Mulhern I think wants to speak on that.

09:18:34 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.

09:18:40 Did ask earlier in the week and I did check with some

09:18:42 of the citizens, and with the schedule of the

09:18:44 expressway authority, and our staff, so I think it's

09:18:47 fine for us to continue it, although there are people

09:18:50 here today who came to speak on it.

09:18:54 So they should have the opportunity to speak during

09:18:58 public comment.

09:18:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My comment was going to be that

09:19:02 what we had requested, what I understood Ms. Mulhern




09:19:07 requested, is a specific report on like how council

09:19:10 could be involved in this if we wanted to set

09:19:14 something.

09:19:14 I think hearing from the public would be fine.

09:19:18 It's always confusing to the public when they see

09:19:20 something on the council agenda, we receive a

09:19:22 communication Wednesday saying put it off a few weeks,

09:19:26 and then the public hasn't had a chance to --

09:19:30 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes, I would have asked them to, you

09:19:33 know, still require them or ask them to do it today.

09:19:36 However, it turns out that the expressway authority --

09:19:39 we thought the expressway authority was going to be

09:19:41 voting on this issue this month, but they are not.

09:19:44 So whatever -- if they are going to have to take any

09:19:49 action, it's not till next month.

09:19:51 And it was kind of a short time that I gave our staff

09:19:55 to look at it.

09:19:56 So I'm fine with it.

09:19:58 I'm sorry for people who came today to talk on it, and

09:20:02 they are not going to get the staff report.

09:20:04 But we will have it in two weeks.

09:20:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And you will be able to speak




09:20:08 during public comment.

09:20:09 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.

09:20:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Item 79 you received a memorandum

09:20:15 from Chief Castor regarding the enforcement of noise

09:20:17 issues and status of equipment and certifications of

09:20:21 officers.

09:20:25 That's been a request by councilman Dingfelder to have

09:20:30 four items removed from consent.

09:20:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let me tweak that up because it's

09:20:34 changed.

09:20:34 I would like to have a discussion on 29, 37 -- not 37.

09:20:39 You can cross that out because I got an answer on that

09:20:44 satisfactorily.

09:20:45 39, 65, and 63.

09:20:50 I thought I asked for 63 but somehow it didn't make it

09:20:53 on the report which is my fault.

09:20:56 There's 29, 39, 63, 65.

09:20:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And those will be moved to 10:30 for

09:21:04 staff report?

09:21:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes, please.

09:21:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Finally, Madam Chair, I believe you

09:21:09 have a memorandum from chair Scott on the absence --




09:21:13 his absence from today's meeting and I believe those

09:21:15 are all the changes to today's agenda unless there are

09:21:18 any other.

09:21:19 I present it for your approval.

09:21:25 I'm sorry, there is one other item, council.

09:21:34 Which number was that?

09:21:38 The resolution regarding the uses of seals.

09:21:42 I don't recall off the top of my head.

09:21:44 Item number 42, council, is a request for the legal

09:21:48 department to prepare the resolution for use of the

09:21:51 U.S. secret service to use the city seal.

09:21:54 That resolution has been provided to the clerk.

09:21:56 So when you come to 42 just move that resolution, it

09:22:00 will be complete and won't have to come back.

09:22:03 I thank you very much.

09:22:04 >>GWEN MILLER: I want to put on the record that

09:22:07 councilman Scott will not be in attendance.

09:22:09 He is out of town.

09:22:11 I need a motion.

09:22:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.

09:22:16 >> Second.

09:22:17 (Motion carried).




09:22:21 >>GWEN MILLER: We go to public comments.

09:22:22 We have 30 minutes.

09:22:23 We would like to ask for ones that are going to speak

09:22:25 to items on the agenda speak first.

09:22:27 Anyone that are going to speak to items on the agenda,

09:22:30 please come and speak first.

09:22:31 >> My name is John Kieffer.

09:22:40 I'm the president of atheists of Florida.

09:22:47 I live at -- I'm not going to tell you my address

09:22:49 because I'm a hated minority.

09:22:52 I live in Tampa.

09:22:55 What you saw here today was that invocation is exactly

09:22:58 why this invocation needs to go.

09:23:04 That's somebody else's creationist.

09:23:08 In the words "in the beginning there was God."

09:23:10 What the heck is that?

09:23:14 God, my monitoring physical alien?

09:23:18 That idea by any other name would be insanity.

09:23:21 You would be on medication.

09:23:23 But I always say that.

09:23:24 I respect all religions.

09:23:26 And I only say that because you decide to bring




09:23:28 religion into government, and that is not

09:23:32 Constitutional.

09:23:36 Approximately 40 years ago, I crawled around in

09:23:40 foxholes in the DMZ as an infantryman fighting for my

09:23:46 Constitution and yourself and I have to come in and am

09:23:51 not forced to pray is absolutely ridiculous.

09:23:55 It is a horrible and disgusting practice.

09:23:58 This is government.

09:23:59 You do not have rights as government.

09:24:00 I have rights as a citizen.

09:24:02 And I am demanding my Constitutional rights to come in

09:24:05 here to this city government and talk about some issue,

09:24:10 and before I get there, I have to either make a

09:24:12 decision to either pretend to pray so I don't look like

09:24:15 an outsider, or be true to my convictions and sit and

09:24:20 be identified as an outsider, possibly one of those

09:24:25 hated atheists.

09:24:26 I have spoken to this point twice before and I am

09:24:31 making it a third time and will come back every time.

09:24:34 You force me to identify myself as a religious outsider

09:24:37 is unconstitutional.

09:24:39 I did not fight in Vietnam, risk my life.




09:24:41 I watched guys get split in half, loss of life.

09:24:48 Lost his leg by an AK-47 go right by my ear.

09:24:52 Later on that today.

09:24:53 Why did I do that?

09:24:54 Because I love this country.

09:24:57 I love this Constitution.

09:24:58 For me to come in here and have to sit down because you

09:25:02 want to practice your religion in government, that is

09:25:06 absolutely than unconscionable and disgusting.

09:25:09 Thank you so much.

09:25:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker.

09:25:14 >> Glen Shull.

09:25:17 I live at 4826 west San Jose street.

09:25:21 I am here to speak on behalf of many who offer programs

09:25:26 for the city.

09:25:34 Please raise your hand.

09:25:44 We would request the council to remove clause 7 from

09:25:48 the contract which is overburdened putting unlimited

09:25:51 liability on instructors who are offering a service to

09:25:53 the city.

09:25:54 We want it reworded or removed so that it only covers

09:25:59 all liability when we are teaching a program to the




09:26:01 participants of our program, not anything that would be

09:26:04 construed as arising from the program in a remote way,

09:26:07 also to remove the hold harmless clause, we want to

09:26:10 retain the rights under Florida's indemnification law,

09:26:14 so if the city is found 100% at fault, the city pays

09:26:18 our defense at cost.

09:26:20 Also to remove the generally accepted accounting

09:26:23 principles compliance and the audit requirements

09:26:25 because we do not have any records that fall into that

09:26:28 category and we don't -- we are not CPAs.

09:26:31 We don't know what accounting principles would apply

09:26:35 but if we sign the contract we could be held

09:26:37 accountable for things we don't V.we turn the

09:26:39 attendance record over to the city.

09:26:41 They are the custodians of it, not us.

09:26:44 After termination of the contract base said we have to

09:26:48 keep liability for the city.

09:26:49 So I have to pay for liability insurance for years

09:26:52 after I stop teaching for the city.

09:26:55 That's not fair.

09:26:56 And please ask no more hoops.

09:26:58 Every time we jump through hoops they come up with




09:27:00 additional hoops we have to jump through.

09:27:02 I asked for the contract in September.

09:27:04 They said there would be no contract.

09:27:06 They said there would no contract.

09:27:07 In December they gave us a ten-page contract filled

09:27:10 with legalese.

09:27:12 I would not have spent the $300 I spent had I seen the

09:27:16 contract in the early part.

09:27:18 Four of us instructors were told we didn't even have a

09:27:20 contract before the year 2009 because Karen Palus had

09:27:27 not signed the contract.

09:27:28 Then they catch the checks every month that we had

09:27:30 turned in to them including the one in January.

09:27:33 A week ago, John Allen walked out of my tennis court

09:27:37 and said, if you are here teaching tomorrow we are

09:27:41 going to have the police serve you with a trespass

09:27:43 notice.

09:27:44 I said we will teach for free and see if can City

09:27:46 Council will intervene.

09:27:47 He said if you are out there teaching for free we will

09:27:50 have the police serve you with a trespass notice.

09:27:53 I stopped teaching obviously but I would like, if I




09:27:56 don't sign on as instructor, I would like a guaranteed

09:28:00 written statement from Corrada or Karen Palus if I am

09:28:04 out playing tennis and there is no payment involved and

09:28:08 we are working on skills improvement for each other

09:28:10 then I will not be served by police as a trespass

09:28:13 notice.

09:28:13 What questions do you have?

09:28:14 >>GWEN MILLER: None.

09:28:17 Are you finished?

09:28:19 >>> Yes, ma'am.

09:28:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Council members are not going to

09:28:22 intervene while people are speaking.

09:28:24 We are going to wait till everybody speaks and then

09:28:26 we'll address the issues you bring to us.

09:28:28 >>> Good morning.

09:28:31 I'm math thigh Cooper in Hillsborough, formerly of the

09:28:35 Carlton neighborhood.

09:28:37 Two weeks ago, a commentator said without prayer we

09:28:40 would not be here today.

09:28:43 Whether that's true or not, the issue before us is not

09:28:46 prayer but rather prayer in a public government forum.

09:28:54 Considering the dilemma, I realize many of my Christian




09:28:56 friends would ask WWJD, and now the rest.

09:29:05 So I looked into WJDD.

09:29:10 I notice in Mark 6, he went into a mountain to pray.

09:29:14 In Matthew 14, he went up into a mountain apart to

09:29:17 pray.

09:29:18 In Luke 9 he was alone praying.

09:29:21 In John 6 he departed again into a mountain himself

09:29:25 alone.

09:29:29 Described in Matthew 6 it's very clear that he expected

09:29:32 his followers to also pray in private, never in public.

09:29:39 It says: And when you pray, do not be like the

09:29:42 hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the

09:29:45 synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men.

09:29:49 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door.

09:29:56 It is difficult to imagine a clearer instruction not to

09:30:00 pray in public.

09:30:02 As a non-believer this is of course not the reason I

09:30:06 wish to have prayer removed from this forum.

09:30:09 However, it might be sufficient authority for some

09:30:12 members of council to decide not to have it in this

09:30:16 forum.

09:30:17 Therefore, I call on the council to follow the director




09:30:22 of Jesus as described in the book of Matthew to remove

09:30:25 prayer from this public forum.

09:30:26 Thank you very much.

09:30:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker.

09:30:29 >> Good morning.

09:30:33 My name is Debra white.

09:30:35 I live on Wisconsin Avenue in Tampa.

09:30:37 And my husband and I have operated Mr. White's windows

09:30:41 the past 20 years in the City of Tampa.

09:30:44 We are currently under your new contract.

09:30:47 My purpose today is two-fold.

09:30:49 I concur with statements that you will hear from other

09:30:52 instructors, but the manner which we have contract

09:30:56 instructors are not being paid in a timely manner.

09:31:00 Our fees are collected based on monthly attendance at

09:31:04 four separate locations.

09:31:05 The city requested payment at the beginning of the

09:31:09 month and they are processed by staff.

09:31:11 Receipt and payment forms are forwarded to the city

09:31:13 staff, and at the end of the month together with our

09:31:17 attendance verification Cathy then reviews it, prepares

09:31:21 an adjusted invoice, and forwards it to the




09:31:26 departments.

09:31:26 In some cases we are up to 14 days past the close of

09:31:29 the month before staff at the centers forward the

09:31:32 information to Cathy.

09:31:33 Then the fun really begins.

09:31:36 We have been told to expect an additional three weeks

09:31:39 before a payment can be processed through accounting.

09:31:42 I hope you understand the ramifications that are

09:31:46 outlined.

09:31:47 Our program will be teaching three months, which you

09:31:50 have received two full months of payment and a third

09:31:53 one coming in before we are paid anything.

09:31:58 And you are getting interest on our proceeds, on our

09:32:02 efforts, when we are not receiving anything back.

09:32:06 Would your secretary, your aide, or even yourself be

09:32:09 willing to work for two full months without receiving

09:32:11 payment?

09:32:12 We did not wait two months to pay you your 30% for the

09:32:16 past 20 years.

09:32:17 We did not charge you back because you closed your

09:32:20 centers for break week or holidays,.

09:32:27 They were given the impression the program is to




09:32:29 facilitate a public-private coalition to provide

09:32:32 services to the citizens of the City of Tampa.

09:32:35 Instead, you have an extreme drop-off of actually

09:32:39 approved instructors, and if payment process, the

09:32:44 likelihood you will have none.

09:32:46 I was told you have modeled this program after the city

09:32:49 of St. Petersburg's program.

09:32:52 Their contract is two pages, and they pay their

09:32:54 instructors within two weeks at the close of the month

09:32:57 business.

09:32:59 Without direction from you, this is clearly not the

09:33:02 case for us.

09:33:04 I thank you for your consideration.

09:33:06 I'm available to meet with you at any time in the

09:33:08 future to discuss the matters further.

09:33:10 Thank you.

09:33:10 >>> Good morning.

09:33:17 My name is Diane Hart.

09:33:18 I reside at 5006 east Cumberland drive.

09:33:22 I come before you as CEO of East Tampa business and

09:33:25 civic association, and a member of the Jackson height

09:33:32 center, youth education council.




09:33:35 For my concern, I don't believe when you all accepted

09:33:41 Ms. Karen Palus' explanation of what these fees would

09:33:44 be that you understood the real ramifications of what

09:33:46 it was going to do to our community.

09:33:49 Jackson height NFL center had 130 participants in

09:33:54 October.

09:33:55 To date we have 48 after-school kids at Jackson

09:33:58 Heights.

09:34:00 Fairoaks had 150 students.

09:34:03 They currently have 30 after-school children.

09:34:08 The weight structure and the fees are just astronomical

09:34:11 for people who work and for those who don't work.

09:34:14 It's $55 per child for the first child, and $50 for

09:34:18 each additional child.

09:34:19 My daughter has three.

09:34:22 It would cost her $65 a week if she got a scholarship.

09:34:26 If she did not get a scholarship, it will cost her $155

09:34:31 a week.

09:34:31 I don't know any parent who could afford to send their

09:34:34 children to our park at those prices.

09:34:37 You all are very much aware of the parks that we have

09:34:41 created in East Tampa, the Carrington community lake




09:34:46 next to Fairoaks.

09:34:48 That is currently being taken over by teenagers who can

09:34:50 no longer go to the park.

09:34:52 There is a rec fee of $15 per child, and we understand

09:34:56 that, and that's perfectly fine.

09:34:58 But this $55 a week for summer, we are going to have

09:35:02 over half of our children on the streets this summer,

09:35:06 something we can hardly afford in East Tampa.

09:35:08 My on the concern is we have not a single teenager

09:35:15 participating in Fairoaks, and those of you know that

09:35:18 our parks have always been filled with children.

09:35:20 We had over 200 children at some point at Fairoaks

09:35:23 alone.

09:35:24 At Jackson Heights we had it up as many as 160

09:35:28 children.

09:35:29 We are begging you, please, take a look at the fee

09:35:32 structure.

09:35:33 It's not long-term, at least for this summer.

09:35:36 We are going to have devastating results in our

09:35:38 community.

09:35:39 It's not going to be retained in just East Tampa.

09:35:42 It's going to spill out into all of our community.




09:35:45 Currently, our parks, Robles Park is being closed.

09:35:49 The stadium park is being closed.

09:35:50 Giddeon park has been turned into an arts center of

09:35:53 some sort.

09:35:55 Oak Park is going to be closed.

09:35:58 It is a nightmare for our children in East Tampa.

09:36:01 The community is coming to East Tampa business civic

09:36:04 association saying, please help us.

09:36:06 I'm not exactly sure what council can or is willing to

09:36:10 do, but we must renegotiate this fee structure, or we

09:36:14 will have no children in our parks.

09:36:16 We did not get that beautiful center built at the

09:36:18 corner of 34th and lake not to have it filled with

09:36:21 children.

09:36:22 Besides the $55 a week if you don't get a scholarship,

09:36:26 anything else that you participate in is an additional

09:36:28 fee.

09:36:29 This is a hardship.

09:36:31 I'm also asking council to ask Ms. Palus to allow

09:36:35 considering applications to be taken at the center for

09:36:37 scholarships, to go to Himes and Columbus drive is a

09:36:41 great inconvenience for parents who don't have cars,




09:36:43 who are on the bus, who take it to go back and forth to

09:36:50 work, who don't have a privilege to get there any other

09:36:53 way.

09:36:53 Please, please take a look at our fee structure.

09:36:55 >>> My name is Tim Gibbons, 6920 north 17th street.

09:37:03 I worked at the Parks and Recreation Department as an

09:37:07 independent instructor.

09:37:08 I worked with them for 20 years, first through

09:37:10 community education, which was eliminated, and then

09:37:13 last 14 years the Hyde Park rec center.

09:37:20 I collected all the money, paid my 30% back to the

09:37:23 parks and recreation department and then all of a

09:37:26 sudden things changed.

09:37:27 I was hand add contract that I was forced to sign or

09:37:31 not teach.

09:37:31 My classes are full.

09:37:37 I do children's classes, preschool classes, children's

09:37:39 classes and adult classes.

09:37:41 So to give a little bit of my background.

09:37:45 I have been teaching art classes for 34 years.

09:37:48 I graduated from high school, went to the Marine Corps,

09:37:55 west Florida, and 14 years at the Richmond center which




09:38:00 is a nonprofit organization, talked to the junior

09:38:01 colleges here in Tampa, and I taught classes all over

09:38:07 Brandon and Tampa.

09:38:08 What's gone on, it seems to me, that someone has come

09:38:11 up with some sort of contracts to force the independent

09:38:15 instructors to -- I'm not sure what the reason it is

09:38:18 but forced the independent instructors to jump through

09:38:22 hoops.

09:38:23 Now they control when I get my money.

09:38:25 In fact, I just got something that's very humorous to

09:38:30 me, that for contract, I signed something -- this is

09:38:33 how petty this is.

09:38:36 I signed -- funded my contract, wrote back and said,

09:38:43 well, put down media fund when I had the class.

09:38:46 And they said, well, you signed up for medium art and

09:38:48 not medium fun so now I have to renegotiate the

09:38:52 contract.

09:38:54 Medium art and medium fun are the same thing.

09:38:57 I don't know about that.

09:38:58 Then I have painting fund, and the other is beginning

09:39:02 painting.

09:39:03 Well, I have to renegotiate the contract now because I




09:39:06 called it painting fund instead of calling it used

09:39:09 painting.

09:39:11 Painting youth, painting fund are the same thing.

09:39:14 Big and little -- I have like eight parents and two and

09:39:21 a half and five years which I love.

09:39:22 So I have that as big and little art instead of big and

09:39:26 little art class.

09:39:27 So now I have to renegotiate my contract because I had

09:39:31 big and little art fund instead of big and little art

09:39:34 class.

09:39:34 This is the sort of harassment and the

09:39:36 unprofessionalism that is being fought here.

09:39:41 I have a contract -- the legal terms, I don't know what

09:39:46 they are talking about. Yeah, I'm an artist.

09:39:49 I have no idea what these people are talking about.

09:39:51 So when I signed a contract and had to put out $300, I

09:39:55 used their insurance company, and in fact that's not

09:39:59 the right insurance company so $137 in the insurance

09:40:02 company, I had to wait for a refund, and then go find

09:40:05 my own insurance company and put out money for that.

09:40:07 So I put out $300 for something I never had to put out

09:40:11 before.




09:40:11 The system wasn't broke.

09:40:12 Why fix it?

09:40:13 I did it on my own.

09:40:14 I got money.

09:40:16 The money, checks signed out to me, I gave them the

09:40:19 30%.

09:40:20 But now all of a sudden, all this convoluted stuff and

09:40:25 it's very hard.

09:40:26 I know three instructors who are not coming back and

09:40:28 they were very good instructors.

09:40:29 Now if you do have city instructors, do you have city

09:40:34 people.

09:40:34 (Bell sounds)

09:40:35 Is that my time is up?

09:40:37 Well, this is really hard for people like me to

09:40:40 perform -- conform to this and also jump through these

09:40:44 hoops.

09:40:45 Thanks very much.

09:40:46 >>> Good morning.

09:40:50 My name is Norene Miller, East Tampa and civic

09:40:57 association.

09:40:57 Resident in East Tampa, and also concerned citizen.




09:41:01 I'm here this morning to ask you if you would

09:41:04 reconsider the park and rec fees for those parks.

09:41:08 I have lately observed children playing in the street

09:41:11 again in an unsafe environment.

09:41:14 We want to ensure safety in our communities.

09:41:17 And we are always talking about in this city.

09:41:20 It appears to me that the children in East Tampa and

09:41:23 throughout the City of Tampa are not going to be able

09:41:26 to afford to go to the parks.

09:41:29 I paid my fee to go through Cyrus Greene park.

09:41:32 At one point this were over 100 children there.

09:41:35 Today there are only 35 children that are able to

09:41:38 attend that can afford it.

09:41:41 Also, there are parents coming in to bring their

09:41:43 children, one and two children, they can't afford to

09:41:49 pay the fee.

09:41:50 I do ask that you do things to ensure that our children

09:41:53 for the summer as well as the after-school programs are

09:41:55 allowed to attend the public arts in Hillsborough

09:41:58 County, in the City of Tampa.

09:42:00 One of the things that I was at last Monday, talking

09:42:04 about ordinary people doing extraordinary things.




09:42:06 I come this morning to ask you all to do some

09:42:08 extraordinary things for the children in East Tampa.

09:42:10 Thank you.

09:42:10 >>> Good morning.

09:42:17 My name is Marc Rubio.

09:42:19 I was born and raised in Tampa.

09:42:21 I'm a business owner, and a homeowner south of Gandy,

09:42:26 and I'm opposed to the Gandy extension that connect

09:42:30 from the Gandy bridge to the Crosstown.

09:42:32 We just spent $22 million revitalizing Gandy and now

09:42:36 they want to spend another $128 million tearing it up,

09:42:40 and building the connector.

09:42:42 Small businesses just went through two years of

09:42:46 construction.

09:42:46 We lost some of the small businesses and a lot of

09:42:50 others are on the verge of shutting down.

09:42:53 If they benefit -- it may benefit Pinellas County but

09:42:57 it the gateway to our city.

09:42:59 I haven't heard any of our city officials take a stand

09:43:01 one way or the other for the bridge.

09:43:07 Most of our community is opposed -- I'll talk about

09:43:11 that in a second.




09:43:15 75, Crosstown authority, by their own numbers, 75% of

09:43:18 the people are against it, spoke against it on 25 of

09:43:24 their numbers are for it.

09:43:25 All the businesses on Gandy are opposed.

09:43:28 To me, this has really just been a crime, that they

09:43:33 really haven't notified our elected officials along

09:43:36 with the public of what the community really wants.

09:43:39 Al is going to talk about it but we have taken vote at

09:43:42 all the civic associations and everybody has been

09:43:45 opposed.

09:43:46 The structures of massive concrete two-story bridge

09:43:50 that is really flat-out ugly, and it's basically the

09:43:53 same from downtown to Ybor City.

09:43:56 Anybody who goes to lunch in Ybor, goes that way, you

09:43:58 go sit under that bridge, what does that look like?

09:44:01 The only thing underneath there is weeds and trash, and

09:44:04 that's the same thing they want to build down Gandy.

09:44:07 We have looked through the whole United States.

09:44:10 We are reasonable people.

09:44:11 Tell me one place in the whole United States where they

09:44:17 build a bridge like that.

09:44:18 We can't find it even in Seattle Washington, they have




09:44:21 a bridge downtown and they want to take it down because

09:44:24 it's an ugly eyesore.

09:44:26 And we know once it's built, it ain't coming down for a

09:44:29 long time.

09:44:32 It said it going to look like Main Street, like

09:44:34 Channelside after its built underneath it and we all

09:44:38 know better than that.

09:44:39 Real estate values are going to go down.

09:44:41 We talked to property a appraisers.

09:44:42 There's going to be a noise problem.

09:44:44 It's going to transfer noise, safety issues, property

09:44:47 values for homeowners will plummet even more.

09:44:50 Which results in more crime and vagrants.

09:44:55 They are concerned about their own personal agenda and

09:44:57 not the people in the community.

09:44:58 We need our elected officials to protect us against

09:45:02 this massive structure.

09:45:04 As said in the beginning, I have been active in all the

09:45:08 meetings, if we didn't want it they wouldn't build it

09:45:11 but they keep pushing it and keep telling in council

09:45:14 that the people aren't opposed to it, and it flat-out

09:45:17 not true.




09:45:17 Thank you.

09:45:22 >> Good morning.

09:45:24 My name is Janet Cordino and the chapter leader for

09:45:28 concerned women for America in Florida.

09:45:30 We are the nation's largest public policy women's with

09:45:33 organization with a rich 30-year history of helping our

09:45:37 members across the country bring Biblical principals

09:45:42 into all levels of public policy.

09:45:44 We have over 22,000 members in the State of Florida.

09:45:48 I am here to thank you today.

09:45:50 We would like you to be aware that many citizens in the

09:45:54 local Tampa Bay area are silently supporting keeping

09:45:57 the Constitutional status quo regarding the invocation

09:46:02 at these council meetings.

09:46:04 We oppose the vocal minority that would strip yet

09:46:08 another acknowledgement of our sovereign God from the

09:46:10 public atmosphere.

09:46:12 Invocation prayer is Constitutional, and there is much

09:46:15 legal support in this arena.

09:46:17 It is our understanding that your office has received

09:46:20 information about this from various legal

09:46:22 organizations.




09:46:24 Again, the Tampa chapter of concerned women for America

09:46:28 of Florida would like to thank the members of the Tampa

09:46:30 City Council for standing strong for invocation prayer

09:46:34 at your council meetings.

09:46:41 >>> Al Steenson, 4100 west Leila Avenue, Tampa.

09:46:47 I'm also the president of Gandy sun Bay south.

09:46:50 As you heard Mr. Rubio just speak a moment ago.

09:46:54 He has a great deal at stake down there on Gandy.

09:46:59 He's also a member of our association.

09:47:02 And I'm a little disappointed that staff had a period

09:47:07 of two weeks to prepare for this, and then less than 24

09:47:12 hours prior to this morning we are noticed that they

09:47:14 want a continuance.

09:47:20 It's my job as president to put this information out to

09:47:23 our membership, and I understand they were asking for a

09:47:29 continuance.

09:47:29 There would have been a great deal more people here

09:47:31 today, and I have documents that I had planned to put

09:47:34 into the record.

09:47:34 But we will hold them off until March the 3rd.

09:47:40 There is a tremendous amount of opposition down here to

09:47:43 this particular project.




09:47:46 I fail to see what's going to change in this whole

09:47:49 scenario between this morning and 9:00 on March

09:47:53 3rd.

09:47:54 And as I say, I'm disappointed with staff.

09:47:58 It is this administration that invited the expressway

09:48:01 down into Gandy.

09:48:02 I have a copy of the letter that was written by the

09:48:05 administrator Steve Daignault back in December of 2007

09:48:09 that said it time for to you come down here and take a

09:48:12 look at this.

09:48:12 We did not invite them.

09:48:14 Granted, we had issues with traffic for many, many

09:48:18 years down there.

09:48:20 As Mark just mentioned, we just spent $22 million of

09:48:23 our tax-payer money getting Gandy fixed up.

09:48:27 I don't know how many of you have driven down there.

09:48:30 It working.

09:48:30 The intersections are clearing out.

09:48:32 And in the communities' opinion, and there is a lot of

09:48:38 them.

09:48:39 Some of them haven't even taken a stand yet -- there is

09:48:43 tremendous opposition, and the expressway has said time




09:48:47 and time again if the committee doesn't want it and

09:48:49 business doesn't want it, we are not going to build it.

09:48:51 Well, we'll see about that in March and we'll see you

09:48:53 all on March 3rd and we'll have a lot more people

09:48:57 here.

09:48:57 Thank you very kindly.

09:49:11 >> Pete Johnson.

09:49:12 It's been a busy day.

09:49:16 My main item that I am speaking on is item number 80.

09:49:21 I'm passing out the letter from Sharon West in regards

09:49:25 to my letter on January 19.

09:49:29 If you look at the first line.

09:49:31 I have a lot to go through but I'll try to dot as fast

09:49:33 as I can.

09:49:34 They say that it wasn't completed because it wasn't

09:49:38 available.

09:49:39 That's a department issue for us.

09:49:41 They said they want to check public records to be sure

09:49:43 that there was no liens on the property.

09:49:46 You can do that on the Internet.

09:49:47 You don't need a credit report.

09:49:52 The city utilities departments, not going to check with




09:49:56 that.

09:49:56 I was told by Cynthia Miller that's one of the things

09:49:58 they are supposed to check.

09:50:00 As a matter of fact, right here is the latest still

09:50:06 owed on this property.

09:50:09 The rehappen work is extended to structure repairs.

09:50:13 This is not what the TIF funds -- what do they call it?

09:50:25 The policy and procedures says.

09:50:28 The repairs are written up close to the time of the --

09:50:35 to repair for the code violations.

09:50:37 Well, there was no code violations for installation.

09:50:42 There was in a code violation for AC duct work.

09:50:46 I mean, this is ridiculous.

09:50:47 This was a waste of money.

09:50:48 My whole point in all of this is that three out of

09:50:54 four -- no, four out of five people living in this

09:50:59 house are on Social Security disability because of

09:51:02 health reasons.

09:51:08 For this division not to take that into consideration

09:51:10 and replace the black mold that is in the drywall and

09:51:17 in the ceiling is not acceptable: It put it me in the

09:51:23 hospital for a week with pneumonia and bedridden for 30




09:51:27 days, with injections with a PIC line to my heart,

09:51:32 because I took it upon myself to look out for the

09:51:35 health and safety of these people where the city's

09:51:39 department did not.

09:51:42 I am infuriated by the short coming.

09:51:45 I'm infuriated by the lying, the misrepresentation of

09:51:47 the truth, not being just plain honest with me and not

09:51:52 being honest with the owner, because I'm sure if we had

09:51:55 known that according to the policy and procedures that

09:52:00 drywall could have been covered, I am sure that we

09:52:04 would have not done the painting of it, and the

09:52:08 painting would have cost maybe $100, for "Paint Your

09:52:12 Heart Out," or I could have come up with another agency

09:52:15 to paint it.

09:52:16 The fact that the division did not even offer any other

09:52:19 agency to try to help correct the health problems shows

09:52:24 pure neglect.

09:52:27 And I am infuriated about it.

09:52:30 And I request that you talk to these people and try to

09:52:33 get the policy and procedures corrected.

09:52:36 This is ridiculous.

09:52:39 $30,000, and they didn't do a credit report.




09:52:41 (Bell sounds)

09:52:43 Thank you.

09:52:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Before you come up, our 30 minutes is

09:52:47 up that we allow for public comments.

09:52:49 For anyone in the public that wants to speak on an item

09:52:51 that we are going to vote on today, line up and you can

09:52:54 speak.

09:52:55 We are extending time for to you speak on it.

09:52:58 If you want to speak on an item that we are going to

09:53:00 vote on today, you can speak and we will extend time

09:53:02 for that.

09:53:03 But others who just wants to talk about something, you

09:53:05 can wait at the end of our meeting, you can speak at

09:53:07 the end of the meeting.

09:53:14 Anyone who is going to speak on an item that we are

09:53:16 going to vote on now, would you please line up and

09:53:18 speak first?

09:53:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's on the agenda?

09:53:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes, on the agenda.

09:53:23 >>> I'm Gary Shepherd, 3422 southeast drive in Tampa.

09:53:29 And today I am speaking for the Hillsborough County

09:53:30 tennis association.




09:53:32 And basically I'm here to support the instructors,

09:53:38 tennis instructors and other instructors as well.

09:53:41 And my basic point is I just think the city should work

09:53:43 to make this easy as possible to support the

09:53:49 instruction of any kind but especially for tennis, of

09:53:51 course, and just real quickly, one point, I last spoke

09:53:56 at August of 2007, and at that point the city ended its

09:54:01 support of tennis at Hillsborough community college,

09:54:03 and by doing so the city is saving almost half a

09:54:08 million dollars a year.

09:54:09 So tennis has already given in terms of saving money

09:54:14 for the city.

09:54:16 And I would also like to thank the council for your

09:54:20 efforts to keep tennis going at Hillsborough community

09:54:22 college.

09:54:22 And I appreciate that very much.

09:54:23 That's all I have to say.

09:54:25 Thanks.

09:54:25 >>> My name is Jim lake, 4218 San Pedro street, here

09:54:33 this morning as a lawyer for the "The Tampa Tribune,"

09:54:36 and just wanted to speak very briefly about item number

09:54:39 75 on council's agenda.




09:54:41 First reading of an amendment to the news wrack

09:54:45 ordinance in the City of Tampa.

09:54:46 I'm here today with Tommy McLeod, the Tribune's

09:54:50 distribution and operations manager and Gary steel, the

09:54:52 Tribune single copy manager.

09:54:54 And I want to thank council for working with us on this

09:54:56 issue.

09:54:58 -- this issue.

09:54:59 You heard from me before and I appreciate that and also

09:55:01 the cooperation of the city attorney's office and

09:55:03 transportation staff in addressing some of the concerns

09:55:06 we had about an earlier draft.

09:55:08 Although the current draft we think is certainly an

09:55:10 improvement over the earlier versions, we continue to

09:55:13 have concerns about two aspects of the current

09:55:16 proposal.

09:55:17 And I mentioned those in a letter that I sent council

09:55:20 earlier this week.

09:55:21 I know as the chair pointed out that your time is short

09:55:24 so I won't repeat way said in the letter but I do have

09:55:27 extra copies of that if the council would like that,

09:55:29 and certainly I will be here to answer any questions




09:55:31 that council has.

09:55:32 Otherwise, I won't repeat what I have already written

09:55:35 to you about.

09:55:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.

09:55:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Do you have extra copies?

09:55:40 >>> Yes, ma'am.

09:55:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone else that wants to speak on an

09:55:43 item that we are going to vote on today?

09:55:46 The public hearings or staff reports.

09:55:48 >> Good morning.

09:55:50 My name is -- I I'm with East Tampa business civic

09:55:55 association as well as the ETIC.

09:55:57 The reason that I come before you this morning is the

09:55:59 matter of the park fees item 74.

09:56:04 I am a sing is will mother of two children ages 12 and

09:56:07 11.

09:56:08 Both of my children have attended the City of Tampa

09:56:11 parks and recreation since they were four and five

09:56:13 years old.

09:56:16 They have attended both city and county parks.

09:56:18 As a single mother I struggle to pay park and field

09:56:22 trip costs and as the costs rose from $12 per child to




09:56:26 55 or $50 per child I could no longer afford to send

09:56:30 them.

09:56:32 If as a City Council member you don't see how raising

09:56:33 the fees can -- if you don't see how raising fees is a

09:56:39 problem, then helping to strengthen our communities

09:56:42 could not possibly be on anyone's agenda.

09:56:45 I was always told as a child where there is a will

09:56:48 there is a way.

09:56:49 I plead with you to find another way to increase

09:56:52 revenue for our local government on the than raising

09:56:54 fees.

09:56:56 If these fees are not reduced or eliminated, again you

09:57:00 can pay now or pay for police officers who will be

09:57:03 patrolling the area and who will be needed during the

09:57:06 summertime.

09:57:07 This leads us to idle time.

09:57:10 Idle time can quickly turn into jail time.

09:57:13 If you choose not to reconsider, then remember it may

09:57:17 be your house or your car that these kids may be

09:57:20 breaking into as they are out for the summer with no

09:57:23 recreation because of the rising costs.

09:57:26 Thank you.




09:57:26 And I hope that you will consider.

09:57:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.

09:57:31 Anyone else want to speak on an item that's on the

09:57:33 agenda for a public hearing that we are going to vote

09:57:35 on or staff report?

09:57:38 >>> Ken Duncan.

09:57:39 I live in Land O' Lakes.

09:57:42 I coach a team here in the City of Tampa.

09:57:47 And I concur with what the other contract instructors

09:57:50 have had to say.

09:57:51 But also ask that the City Council implore the Parks

09:57:55 and Recreation Department to have more open discussion

09:57:57 and environment with the contract instructors, and we

09:58:01 do run quality programs. I'm a former NCAA division 1

09:58:02 swim coach who retired after 20 years, and I run a

09:58:07 quality program, but I feel like my arms are being

09:58:10 twisted, and I am being pushed into making decisions

09:58:14 that I shouldn't be making.

09:58:16 We do keep kids off the street.

09:58:18 We do reduce property crime.

09:58:20 And so I just ask that you ask the Parks and Recreation

09:58:22 Department to have more open environment with us.




09:58:25 Thank you.

09:58:32 >>> I'm Rob Curry.

09:58:34 I'm Executive Director of atheists of Florida, 3614

09:58:39 south Manhattan Avenue.

09:58:40 I would like to add my voice to those who have spoken

09:58:42 about the parks fees, because that is important how we

09:58:47 give our children an opportunity to spend their time

09:58:49 doing things that are constructive.

09:58:51 And I think that's an important issue.

09:58:54 Other issues that you have heard as well -- in fact I

09:58:58 would like to provide this for the council.

09:59:02 I know many people talked with about the invocation as

09:59:16 well.

09:59:17 It certainly controversial and I would add

09:59:20 disrespectful.

09:59:21 I want to thank Councilwoman Mulhern especially --

09:59:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Excuse me, are you speaking about the

09:59:26 fees or are you going to speak about something else?

09:59:28 >> I would like to speak about both.

09:59:30 >>GWEN MILLER: But we are not voting on anything but

09:59:32 the fees.

09:59:32 >> I apologize for my ignorance of the council's




09:59:38 procedures.

09:59:38 But may I ask is this something that you might vote

09:59:42 upon?

09:59:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Not today.

09:59:43 It's not on the agenda.

09:59:44 >> Okay.

09:59:45 Then I simply ask that you be kind enough to review the

09:59:47 letter that the attorney is passing out, that we are

09:59:50 requesting a response within two weeks by the next

09:59:53 public session.

09:59:54 And I look forward to speaking with you later.

09:59:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.

09:59:57 >> Have a wonderful day and thank you for all the

10:00:01 constructive things you do for the community.

10:00:02 >> Anyone that wants to speak on stems on the agenda

10:00:06 that we are going to be voting on today or staff

10:00:08 reports?

10:00:09 If you are not going to speak on those items, you can

10:00:11 stay to the end of our meeting and express your opinion

10:00:14 after that.

10:00:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I can, Madam Chairman.

10:00:17 Sorry to interrupt.




10:00:18 But just to clarify.

10:00:19 When you say public hearing, you mean legislative

10:00:21 items, not items that are set for public hearings, but

10:00:24 items that are on the agenda that are legislative or

10:00:27 appear under staff reports.

10:00:29 Those items.

10:00:30 And those people who wish to speak to other items that

10:00:32 are on the agenda, council rules do provide for the

10:00:34 opportunity for them to address council at the end of

10:00:36 today's meeting.

10:00:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Correct.

10:00:42 That's the end of our public comments.

10:00:45 Is there anyone in the public that would like to

10:00:47 request reconsideration of a legislative matter?

10:00:51 Anyone in the public that would like to request

10:00:53 reconsideration of a public matter?

10:00:59 If not, hearing none, we go to our committee reports.

10:01:03 Public safety, Mr. Charlie Miranda.

10:01:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move items 3 through 10.

10:01:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

10:01:15 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.

10:01:16 (Motion carried)




10:01:18 Parks and recreation, Linda Saul-Sena.

10:01:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Off microphone)

10:01:28 I want to point out our director Karen Palus will come

10:01:31 to us at 10:30 under staff reports.

10:01:33 I would like to move items 11 through 19.

10:01:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.

10:01:37 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.

10:01:38 (Motion carried)

10:01:39 Public works, Mr. Charlie Miranda.

10:01:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I believe there's one item that was

10:01:44 being held by request of a council member, if I recall

10:01:49 that.

10:01:50 That item was number 29.

10:01:57 So I will move except 29, through 33 with the exception

10:02:01 of 29.

10:02:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

10:02:02 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.

10:02:04 (Motion carried)

10:02:06 Finance Committee, Ms. Mary Mulhern.

10:02:09 >>MARY MULHERN: I am going to move items 34 through

10:02:14 38.

10:02:16 Number 39 has been pulled for staff report.




10:02:18 I am going to move item 40.

10:02:23 And it looks like item 41 is going to be on staff

10:02:26 reports at 10:30.

10:02:28 And then item 42, I need to just move the resolution.

10:02:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

10:02:36 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.

10:02:37 (Motion carried)

10:02:39 Building and zoning.

10:02:40 Mr. Joseph Caetano.

10:02:42 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like to move items 43 to

10:02:45 65, and number 63 has been moved to staff report.

10:02:51 >>GWEN MILLER: You go to 60.

10:02:57 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Excuse me.

10:03:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Did I get a second?

10:03:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.

10:03:03 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor say Aye.

10:03:05 Opposed, Nay.

10:03:06 Transportation, Mr. John Dingfelder.

10:03:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I would like to move 61, 62 and 64.

10:03:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

10:03:13 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.

10:03:15 All in favor of the motion say Aye.




10:03:16 Opposed, Nay.

10:03:17 We now go to item number 69.

10:03:20 Is there anyone in the public that wants to speak on

10:03:23 item 69 through 72?

10:03:29 Would you please stand and raise your right hand?

10:03:31 (Oath administered by Clerk).

10:03:47 >> I ask that all written communications in City

10:03:50 Council's office be received and filed prior to action

10:03:52 by motion and vote, please.

10:03:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So moved.

10:03:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

10:03:55 (Motion carried).

10:04:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If there are any ex parte

10:04:03 communications between you and any member of the public

10:04:04 regarding any of today's hearings please disclose those

10:04:08 and the substance of your communications prior to the

10:04:11 vote.

10:04:11 Thank you.

10:04:11 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to open those items 68 through

10:04:15 72.

10:04:16 >> So moved.

10:04:17 >> Second.




10:04:17 (Motion carried).

10:04:19 >>LaCHONE DOCK: Land Development Coordination.

10:04:22 Item 69, 70 and 72 all required certified site plans.

10:04:27 Those plans have been certified by the zoning

10:04:28 administrator and have been provided to the clerk.

10:04:31 Staff has copies of those plans, if you have any

10:04:33 questions.

10:04:34 Thank you.

10:04:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that

10:04:37 would like to speak on item 69?

10:04:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.

10:04:42 >> Second.

10:04:43 (Motion carried).

10:04:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder, would you read 69,

10:04:46 please?

10:04:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move the following ordinance for

10:04:51 second reading and adoption.

10:04:52 An ordinance repealing ordinance number 2008-114

10:04:57 approving a special ferment S-2 for alcoholic sales of

10:05:00 small venue making lawful the sale of beverages

10:05:03 containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight not more

10:05:05 than 14% weight and wines 2(APS) in sealed containers




10:05:10 for consumption off premises only at or from that

10:05:14 certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 4808 east

10:05:17 Broadway with Avenue, Tampa, Florida as more

10:05:19 particularly described in section 3 hereof providing

10:05:21 for repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an

10:05:24 effective date.

10:05:24 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion.

10:05:28 >> Second.

10:05:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Vote and record.

10:05:38 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Scott being absent.

10:05:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: On number 70, I want to share a

10:05:46 conversation that I had that was related to the vote

10:05:50 that we are taking on 70.

10:05:52 Last Friday morning at 9:00, at 8:00, I had breakfast

10:05:56 at Hugo's on Howard Avenue.

10:05:58 With a group of people who are very active in the Hyde

10:06:03 Park area including Rosemary Henderson, jack Wyatt, Del

10:06:08 Acosta, and a couple of other people who came, I can't

10:06:11 remember.

10:06:12 We were talking about a variety of issues including,

10:06:14 well, the clean-up of water retention pond and some on

10:06:17 the things.




10:06:18 But the reason I'm bringing this up is at that time I

10:06:21 talked about -- they complained to me about the city

10:06:26 staff didn't explain to them that City Council is very

10:06:28 limited in our review of zonings that have to do with

10:06:32 school property, and we basically can't say no but we

10:06:35 can try to make it better.

10:06:37 They said if they understood that in advance they

10:06:39 wouldn't have spent so much time and concern over the

10:06:45 rezoning or about to -- we are about to consider.

10:06:48 And I said, well, council members know this, but I

10:06:50 guess the city staff should have explained this to you,

10:06:54 and I explained it indeed council really is constrained

10:06:56 to the degree that when we review school board

10:07:00 properties, it's a different situation than normal

10:07:03 rezonings.

10:07:03 That was the content of our conversation.

10:07:07 And because it was related to this rezoning, though not

10:07:12 like the minutia of it, I wanted to share with you all.

10:07:17 >> Would anyone in the public like to speak on item 70?

10:07:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.

10:07:28 >> Second.

10:07:29 >>MARY MULHERN: I had a few questions.




10:07:32 I'm sorry -- of staff at the first hearing on the whole

10:07:37 issue of the school board property and us not being

10:07:39 able to vote on it.

10:07:45 Is it that we can't vote -- we have no say about

10:07:49 anything they do on the property?

10:07:50 Or is it that if their buildings, expanding the

10:07:57 schools, we can't?

10:07:58 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.

10:08:02 The first hearing on this and also at the last school

10:08:04 board item that came before you, I explained Florida

10:08:06 statutes does limit City Council's authority to review

10:08:10 rezoning for special use permits as relates to school

10:08:14 expansions, new school construction, et cetera.

10:08:17 You don't have the right to deny the use of the

10:08:19 property for whatever it is they are asking for as that

10:08:23 the school board is asking for.

10:08:25 Do you have a right to place reasonable conditions upon

10:08:27 what that request is, hearing what that request is, and

10:08:32 concerns of citizens, et cetera.

10:08:33 So I want to be clear.

10:08:38 Your limitation is the approval or denial, you do have

10:08:41 the right to place reasonable conditions on those.




10:08:44 The request that comes before you.

10:08:46 >>MARY MULHERN: The language in my backup is somewhere

10:08:52 in that, a Florida statute?

10:08:54 >>JULIA COLE: I believe it was handed outs to you at

10:08:56 the first public hearing.

10:08:58 And I do want to say in my tenure of the city which has

10:09:01 been almost six years, we never had these kind of

10:09:04 questions coming forward in terms of rezoning for

10:09:07 schools suns I have been here until for some strange

10:09:09 reason in the last few months.

10:09:11 So it's something that wasn't really on anybody's radar

10:09:15 screen.

10:09:15 I don't think there was that much of an understanding

10:09:20 until we got into the nuts and bolts.

10:09:23 I think we will all do a better job in the future when

10:09:26 these items come forward.

10:09:28 We do want to make sure citizens understand the role is

10:09:30 not to say, oh, we can't do anything.

10:09:32 The role is just to be there to place reasonable

10:09:34 conditions on its uses.

10:09:37 So I do want to make that clear, and I will make sure

10:09:39 that, yes, that provision is available to you, Ms.




10:09:42 Mulhern.

10:09:43 I would like to make it available in previous

10:09:44 proceedings on this matter.

10:09:46 But that is where you are going forward on school board

10:09:49 applications.

10:09:50 >>MARY MULHERN: Since we had a similar case recently

10:09:57 where we had a very long discussion about the addition

10:09:59 at plant, and that was about classrooms, and it seemed

10:10:06 to me there was some discussion about what we -- what

10:10:09 our purview was, it wasn't that we don't have any say

10:10:13 in it.

10:10:14 So I'm sorry that I wasn't able to be here and ask

10:10:19 these questions then.

10:10:20 But I do want to read the statute.

10:10:26 It seems like it was a unanimous vote.

10:10:29 So I don't think it's going to make any difference.

10:10:32 But I would like to see that just to know.

10:10:38 >>JULIA COLE: Just so you know, the limitation is one

10:10:42 of placing these conditions on whatever request that

10:10:45 is, so with requests from the school board now and in

10:10:49 the future to put in a new school, et cetera, your role

10:10:53 as members of City Council is to review the




10:10:57 application, and if necessary to place any reasonable

10:11:01 conditions on the use of the property and the manner

10:11:04 being reflected.

10:11:05 >> But my question is because this is a parking lot,

10:11:12 not part of a school.

10:11:13 >> But it would be considered Bart of what it is they

10:11:16 are required to do, to comply with their codes.

10:11:19 The other part of this is school boards have their own

10:11:22 set of building codes, have their own set of parking

10:11:25 requirements, et cetera.

10:11:25 So that is part and parcel of that separate public

10:11:29 entity's obligation to put in place, and therefore

10:11:32 would be part of their authority under Florida statute.

10:11:36 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to ask if council would

10:11:43 give me a little time just to read this, and we can

10:11:46 vote on it in a little bit.

10:11:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I was just going to say that the

10:11:53 petitioner made a really good case for why this is a

10:11:57 good idea.

10:11:57 And it's currently -- the projections will be used for

10:12:00 a parking lot now, but that perhaps in five years it

10:12:03 would actually be used for school structures, and that




10:12:06 the piece of property is located in between Gorrie and

10:12:11 Wilson, so it could be absolutely catty-corner to both

10:12:16 to be used for overflow parking.

10:12:18 They made a really good case I think is why it was a

10:12:22 unanimous vote.

10:12:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you still want to hold that?

10:12:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just defer it to later in the

10:12:31 meeting.

10:12:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I saw Ms. Grimes.

10:12:34 I don't know whether you want to address council.

10:12:37 But at public hearing we could defer it.

10:12:39 It hasn't been closed obviously.

10:12:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I would like to defer it to later

10:12:43 in the meeting.

10:12:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you want to speak?

10:12:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You can save your comments and hold

10:12:48 them if you wish.

10:12:49 >>GINA GRIMES: Hill ward Henderson, 101 East Kennedy.

10:12:53 I have been sworn.

10:12:54 I was just going to mention that we included in the

10:12:57 materials that were in the public hearing three weeks

10:13:00 ago a copy of the statute, the same statutory provision




10:13:04 we submitted into the record at the hearing on the

10:13:08 planned expansion, and Ms. Saul-Sena is correct.

10:13:11 While the issues for parking one of the alternative

10:13:16 uses is for future school buildings, so this is

10:13:19 something that's going to be probably most likely a

10:13:22 temporary use.

10:13:23 So similar to the plant application and at some point

10:13:27 in time it may be used for a school building.

10:13:29 >> And I have this.

10:13:30 Thanks.

10:13:31 >> I would like to direct your attention to subsection

10:13:35 13 -- 10-13.33 where it specifically says that the site

10:13:40 is consistent with the comp plan, land use policies and

10:13:43 categories in which schools are identified as allowable

10:13:45 uses, a local government may not deny the application,

10:13:50 but it may impose reasonable development, traditions

10:13:53 and standards in accordance with 10-13-51-1 and

10:13:58 consider the site plan and its adequacy as relates to

10:14:02 health, safety, welfare, and effects on adjacent

10:14:04 property, and we did make several changes to the site

10:14:07 plan as a result of council direction and motion

10:14:14 including several aesthetic changes dealing with black




10:14:19 decorative metal fencing, and then also in another

10:14:23 neighborhood association is aware of this because they

10:14:24 are now working with the board foundation to develop a

10:14:30 hedge and pay for the cost of the ornamental fencing

10:14:35 along South Boulevard.

10:14:39 And to also work with them on some historical lighting.

10:14:42 >>MARY MULHERN: Can you tell me the subsection?

10:14:48 I think it's highlighted.

10:14:49 10-13.33?

10:14:53 >> Paren 13.

10:14:54 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.

10:14:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Any more clarification, Mrs. Mulhern?

10:15:02 >>MARY MULHERN: I want to read this but I still would

10:15:04 like to delay voting.

10:15:06 >>GWEN MILLER: We will go to item number 71.

10:15:09 Is there anyone in the public that would like to speak

10:15:11 on item 71?

10:15:12 >> Move to close.

10:15:17 >> Second.

10:15:17 >> Motion and second to close.

10:15:19 Mr. Miranda, would you read that, please?

10:15:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Madam Chair, an ordinance presented




10:15:25 for second reading and adoption, an ordinance rezoning

10:15:27 property in the general vicinity of 4920 east Busch

10:15:29 Boulevard in the city of Tampa, Florida and more

10:15:31 particularly described in section 1 from zoning

10:15:34 district classifications RM-24 residential multifamily

10:15:38 to CG commercial general providing an effective date.

10:15:41 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.

10:15:45 Vote and record.

10:15:52 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Scott being absent.

10:15:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that

10:15:57 would like to speak on item 72?

10:15:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.

10:16:04 >> Second.

10:16:04 (Motion carried).

10:16:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move the following

10:16:09 ordinance for second reading and adoption.

10:16:11 An ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity

10:16:13 of 310 south Habana Avenue in the city of Tampa,

10:16:17 Florida and more particularly described in section 1

10:16:20 from zoning district classifications RM-16 residential

10:16:23 multifamily to PD planned development,

10:16:26 business/professional office, single family




10:16:29 semi-detached congregate living facility 6 or fewer,

10:16:34 providing an effective date.

10:16:34 >> Second.

10:16:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Vote and record.

10:16:44 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Scott being absent.

10:16:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 73 is a public hearing.

10:16:51 We need to open the public hearing.

10:16:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.

10:16:55 >> Second.

10:16:55 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor?

10:17:01 Opposed, Nay?

10:17:02 If you are going to speak on item 73, would you please

10:17:04 stand and raise your right hand?

10:17:06 (Oath administered by Clerk).

10:17:17 >> Ron: Staff for historic preservation.

10:17:20 Item 73, we are going to review an ad valorem tax

10:17:22 exemption for the structure located at 1609 North

10:17:24 Franklin Street that's currently owned by the Franklin

10:17:27 Street group LLC.

10:17:30 And it's partner Downtown Franklin Multiple Listing

10:17:33 Group.

10:17:36 I have an aerial here so you will better understand




10:17:39 where the property is located.

10:17:40 It's highlighted in the yellow box that fronts Franklin

10:17:44 Street to the west. To the north you have Henderson,

10:17:47 to the south you have Estrella, and to the east you

10:17:51 have Florida Avenue.

10:17:55 As some reference points, you have Stetson law school

10:17:58 to the west, you have Busch Ross to the northwest and

10:18:04 the Salvation Army just to the north.

10:18:08 These are some historic photos of the property.

10:18:12 If somebody comes up with a request for rehabilitation,

10:18:15 We did some research so we could guide them and get the

10:18:18 most accurate depiction of the building after

10:18:21 rehabilitation.

10:18:22 You see here by the arrow, you see the building in

10:18:24 question, you see the signage that was here in the

10:18:27 early 1900s.

10:18:29 You see the upper transoms and the lower display

10:18:32 windows.

10:18:36 This photo here is log down Franklin to the south once

10:18:40 again, the building is this one here, not the one on

10:18:44 the corner, the one in.

10:18:45 You see the larger display windows with the recessed




10:18:49 entrance and then the upper transom.

10:18:52 Prior to rehabilitation, the structure was in this

10:18:55 condition.

10:18:58 After rehabilitation, taking the queues from historic

10:19:02 photos --

10:19:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We can't see that very well.

10:19:07 Do you have a better one, or can you make it lighter?

10:19:13 It on the monitors.

10:19:14 That's great.

10:19:15 >> You have the lower transom how it's returned back

10:19:17 with the recessed panels.

10:19:19 The recessed, the two divisions on the storefront, and

10:19:22 then the transom of the appropriate division.

10:19:25 This building has clear glass on it.

10:19:27 This is a reflection of the building across the street.

10:19:30 We took many different photos and we couldn't get the

10:19:32 reflection out of it.

10:19:33 So this is a clearer indication of what it looks like.

10:19:37 This is the upper portion, the parapet portion here,

10:19:40 with appropriate signage.

10:19:43 Moving total enter your, it was just an open space, not

10:19:50 script.




10:19:53 Two photos of that.

10:19:54 And moving to the enter your, how it is today.

10:19:57 It does function as a woodworking shop.

10:20:01 The volume was left uninterrupted from the ceiling to

10:20:05 the floor.

10:20:06 And then they brought in the traditional mechanicals

10:20:09 and some lighting in there to be as effective as

10:20:12 possible.

10:20:12 This is the solution for ADA, as you come in the front

10:20:16 door, very sensitive solution with appropriate

10:20:19 railings.

10:20:20 And just the last photo I have is just showing having

10:20:23 completed a sensitive rehabilitation all the way down

10:20:26 to the hardware.

10:20:32 This building is consistent with the Secretary of

10:20:33 Interior standards to the rehabilitation and all of our

10:20:37 concerns.

10:20:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I hope that you make these pictures

10:20:40 available to people who are considering rehab.

10:20:42 This is such a great example.

10:20:44 And this is done by Mindy Snyder's husband, former city

10:20:51 employee retired, but such a great example of rehab,




10:20:54 and it's doing so much for that corridor.

10:20:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Kert, do you want to speak?

10:21:05 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.

10:21:06 There should be an ordinance, and it should be for

10:21:09 first reading.

10:21:09 >> Is there anyone in the public that wants to speak on

10:21:13 item 73?

10:21:18 Need to close.

10:21:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.

10:21:20 >> Second.

10:21:21 (Motion carried).

10:21:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move an ordinance approving a

10:21:26 historical preservation property tax exemption

10:21:28 application related to the historical restoration,

10:21:31 renovation, rehabilitation of certain properties owned

10:21:34 by Franklin Street group LLC located at 1609 North

10:21:38 Franklin Street, Tampa, Florida, in the North Franklin

10:21:42 downtown multiple properties listing group historic

10:21:45 district, the same providing for notice of the

10:21:49 property, appraisers of Hillsborough County, providing

10:21:52 for severability, providing for repeal of all

10:21:56 ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.




10:21:57 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.

10:21:59 All in favor of the motion say Aye.

10:22:00 Opposed, Nay.

10:22:01 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Scott being absent.

10:22:04 Second reading of the ordinance will be held March

10:22:06 4th at 9:30 a.m.

10:22:08 >>GWEN MILLER: We go now to staff reports.

10:22:12 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm ready to vote on that other item.

10:22:18 I don't want to keep people here.

10:22:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Let's go back to item 70.

10:22:22 Anyone in the public wants to speak on item 70?

10:22:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to close.

10:22:27 >> Second.

10:22:27 (Motion carried).

10:22:31 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm going to vote no.

10:22:33 And I just want to say why.

10:22:38 I think obviously there's a good strong legal argument

10:22:46 of that we can't impose too many restrictions, but

10:22:53 since this is a complicated statute, and I haven't had

10:22:57 time to read the whole thing, but in one part that is

10:23:01 highlighted strikes me as may be questionable in that

10:23:09 subsection 13 it says: But it may impose reasonable




10:23:12 development standards and conditions in accordance with

10:23:16 10-13.51, which I haven't had a chance to read, and

10:23:20 consider the site plan and its adequacy as it relates

10:23:23 to environmental concerns, health, safety, welfare,

10:23:28 effects on adjacent property, standards and conditions.

10:23:31 So this is why I am voting no.

10:23:36 I want to have it on record that I'm not convinced that

10:23:40 we don't -- might not have a little bit more room to

10:23:48 opine on this as the zoning body for the city.

10:23:53 And I'm worried about this as a precedent.

10:23:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Would you read item 70?

10:24:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Before I do, I just want to share

10:24:04 something that's interesting to me.

10:24:05 This particular site is not part of the Hyde Park

10:24:09 historic overlay.

10:24:10 It this weird little connection of Hyde Park that isn't

10:24:15 covered.

10:24:15 But the school board, frankly, has improved

10:24:19 dramatically in the last few years in terms of being

10:24:22 sensitive to historic school sites, historic

10:24:25 properties, and even developments adjacent to that.

10:24:28 So I'm very hopeful that on this and in the future they




10:24:32 will continue to reflect the design characteristics and

10:24:36 standards even if they aren't bound legally to do it,

10:24:39 they have been doing it, and I really appreciate that.

10:24:41 And I see that as a tremendous cooperative step forward

10:24:44 in working with you to make sure our neighborhoods that

10:24:48 are historic in nature have the consistency which

10:24:51 frankly attracts everyone to be in those neighborhoods

10:24:53 in the first place.

10:24:53 So thank you for your cooperation.

10:24:55 Number 70.

10:24:56 Move an ordinance for second reading and adoption.

10:25:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.

10:25:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: An ordinance rezoning property in

10:25:02 the general vicinity of 503 and 505 South Boulevard in

10:25:06 the city of Tampa, Florida and more particularly

10:25:08 described in section 1 from zoning district

10:25:10 classifications PD planned development, retail,

10:25:12 residential, office, to PD, planned development,

10:25:15 retail, residential, office, school parking, school,

10:25:18 providing an effective date.

10:25:18 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.

10:25:20 Vote and record.




10:25:20 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern voting no and

10:25:33 Scott being absent.

10:25:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 74 we have at 10:30. It's not yet

10:25:49 10:30.

10:25:49 Should we go ahead since we have staff here?

10:25:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 74?

10:25:56 >>GWEN MILLER: All of them.

10:25:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Close enough.

10:25:58 >>GWEN MILLER: We are going to go ahead.

10:25:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You also have the agenda items that

10:26:01 you pulled as well.

10:26:03 You can take those up first.

10:26:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Take those first?

10:26:08 Sure.

10:26:09 Item 26.

10:26:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No, 29.

10:26:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 29.

10:26:20 Thank you.

10:26:29 Skip, are you there of? Item 29 was the GSQ question,

10:26:34 the group we use out of Tallahassee for the special

10:26:37 services, fees, that we assess stormwater fee and that

10:26:41 sort of thing.




10:26:45 My initial question was related to the dollar amount

10:26:47 because every year we spend, you know, 50, $60,000 to

10:26:51 have this outside group help us put the stormwater

10:26:54 assessment on the bill, but then I got an e-mail from

10:26:57 Steve Daignault, and Chip and I talked about it, and

10:27:00 I'm okay with the dollar amount.

10:27:06 But then Chip and I had a great discussion, I want to

10:27:10 give him credit, the possibility that maybe we don't

10:27:11 have to go through this exercise every year, that maybe

10:27:14 we can do it every two or three years instead, and then

10:27:18 I think we can probably save manpower and also money.

10:27:22 And not only related to the stormwater fee but possibly

10:27:25 also related to the other special district fees

10:27:29 including the Westshore district, the downtown

10:27:32 district, and the trolley district, which are the only

10:27:35 fees which come to my mind.

10:27:37 But, anyway, I just wanted to bring that up and let you

10:27:40 speak to it quickly and see if we can research that

10:27:44 down the road.

10:27:45 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: City attorney.

10:27:47 Our practice here has been to readopt all the special

10:27:50 assessments every year for those, that councilman




10:27:55 kicked indicated.

10:27:56 For most assessments there's not a requirement to be

10:27:59 adopted annually.

10:28:00 They can be put in place, unless there's statutory

10:28:04 limits, and methodology changes, so we do have the

10:28:08 option of putting these in place for longer period of

10:28:10 time.

10:28:12 The stormwater fee we do need to do some research.

10:28:16 There is some case law on that to fully understand what

10:28:18 the flexibility is there.

10:28:20 But it is something that would save, we believe, the

10:28:23 city some expense potentially on a contract basis and

10:28:28 also with workload.

10:28:29 So if that was amenable to council, that would be

10:28:32 something that we could look at as a cost savings

10:28:35 measure.

10:28:35 With that --

10:28:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: With that I will make a motion that

10:28:40 we ask legal to research that and come back to us in 90

10:28:44 days. With that I'll move item 29.

10:28:45 >>MARY MULHERN: With Chip there, can I ask a question?

10:28:51 Are you talking about just not hiring an outside




10:28:56 service to --

10:28:59 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: If I may.

10:29:00 >>MARY MULHERN: Don't we have to ask --

10:29:05 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: There's a couple different pieces

10:29:06 and the stormwater one is a little more complicated

10:29:09 because the actual calculation is based on the size of

10:29:11 the lot, the impervious surface, a number of factors.

10:29:15 This particular contract would probably need to

10:29:18 continue to update the information every year.

10:29:21 But we wouldn't have to go through all the other things

10:29:26 related to the process of setting the assessment, which

10:29:31 may include part of what this contract is for but would

10:29:33 not include all of it.

10:29:35 But in addition to that, we do a fairly elaborate

10:29:40 process to do these every year so there's staff time,

10:29:42 there's mailing, we contract some of it, some of it is

10:29:47 paid out directly from the assessment.

10:29:49 So if we were able to eliminate that process, there

10:29:52 would be cost savings that would free up assessment

10:29:54 dollars for other things, and there would be staff time

10:29:57 savings.

10:29:58 >>MARY MULHERN: Right, but, for instance, if it was




10:30:01 the Westshore alliance, they would -- if we couldn't

10:30:06 vote to change it -- you're saying it would be every

10:30:12 three years that we would change it?

10:30:15 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: The next time that came up, for

10:30:17 example, stab it for a period of years rather than one

10:30:20 year and at that point talk about what that duration

10:30:22 would be and, yes, consulting with the Westshore

10:30:27 alliance would be appropriate.

10:30:28 >>MARY MULHERN: There would be no change without --

10:30:31 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: There would be no change in the

10:30:33 methodology.

10:30:34 It set without them being notified, which in most of

10:30:36 these cases means no change in the fee.

10:30:39 >> We have to spend more time on storm bought because

10:30:46 there may be changes in the actual fee even though

10:30:48 there's not a change in the methodology.

10:30:50 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.

10:30:52 I just worry about the members of the district always

10:30:57 being apprised if there's going to be any change.

10:31:00 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: In coordination with those

10:31:04 entities it would obviously be appropriate.

10:31:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I move item 29.




10:31:08 >> Second.

10:31:09 (Motion carried).

10:31:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I would like to ask legal to come

10:31:13 back to us on all of these special districts, and this

10:31:17 idea of maybe 90 days.

10:31:20 Or sooner if they have something and want to come back

10:31:24 sooner.

10:31:26 Motion.

10:31:26 >> Second.

10:31:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just for a staff report.

10:31:31 >>GWEN MILLER: A written report?

10:31:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No, a verbal report.

10:31:35 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.

10:31:38 All in favor say Aye.

10:31:39 Opposed, Nay.

10:31:40 Other items pulled?

10:31:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The next one is item 39.

10:31:53 Chip, this is yours as well.

10:31:55 This is sort of a convoluted legal issue but item 39,

10:32:01 the city -- and it's a very good thing -- we want to go

10:32:05 out and do an audit of Office Depot because of our

10:32:08 contractual relation with Office Depot, and it's




10:32:11 complicated issue that I think we have discussed in the

10:32:14 past.

10:32:15 And we want to make sure that we are getting all the

10:32:17 discounts and being treated appropriately in our

10:32:20 contract with Office Depot, so that's a good thing.

10:32:23 Office Depot apparently is telling us that we can't

10:32:26 come in and do the audit unless we sign a

10:32:29 confidentiality agreement, which I guess is sort of

10:32:31 standard in some of these situations.

10:32:34 The only question I had in reading it is I think the

10:32:36 confidentiality agreement that they are asking for is

10:32:39 overly broad.

10:32:41 And I did some legal research yesterday on the issue.

10:32:46 It appears that they can ask for confidentiality from

10:32:48 public records disclosure as related specifically to

10:32:53 trade secrets, and that there is a trade secret

10:32:57 exception to the public records act, and that's state

10:32:59 law, and that's the way it is.

10:33:01 I don't necessarily agree with it but that's the way it

10:33:03 is.

10:33:04 But the contractor -- the agreement they are asking us

10:33:08 to sign is broader than that, and they speak to




10:33:11 anything that they deem to be confidential as compared

10:33:15 to specifically trade secrets.

10:33:19 And I know it sounds like splitting hair, and that's

10:33:24 what we lawyers do.

10:33:25 But, anyway, I have a little bit of a problem with it.

10:33:27 I have expressed it to Chip, and Sal.

10:33:33 >>SAL TERRITO: The agreement does two things does deal

10:33:37 with confidentiality.

10:33:38 The third will be on Office Depot to assert the

10:33:41 confidentiality.

10:33:42 If they are going to assert the certain documents as

10:33:44 confidential, then they are going to have to come in

10:33:46 and defend that.

10:33:47 That's what the second part of this agreement does.

10:33:49 It requires them to defend it.

10:33:51 The confidentiality requirement is basically an

10:33:54 affirmative defense.

10:33:55 We are required to produce any records that are deemed

10:33:59 to be public records.

10:34:00 They'll make a determination at some point that they

10:34:02 may think that certain records are not public records.

10:34:06 Rather than putting the burden on us to defend that,




10:34:08 they will come in and defend that.

10:34:09 They will pay all the fees associated with that, be

10:34:12 they will pay any consequences associated with that.

10:34:15 We will not be holding back any records that we deem to

10:34:18 be public records unless some court tells us otherwise,

10:34:24 and the burden is going to be on Office Depot to do

10:34:26 that, not the city.

10:34:28 And that's what this agreement is trying to do.

10:34:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm not going to support it because

10:34:33 I think it makes it sort of complicit in their

10:34:36 shenanigans.

10:34:37 I think that basically they are trying to hide some of

10:34:40 this.

10:34:41 There's been a lot of public discourse about this

10:34:43 master agreement that's being used all across the

10:34:46 country by governments.

10:34:47 And I think that it sort of makes us participate in

10:34:57 their secrets.

10:34:58 And frankly, I think it's too broad.

10:35:01 I think we should go in there and demand an audit and

10:35:04 say if you want to deem something a trade secret

10:35:06 because Florida statute says that trade secrets are




10:35:09 protected, that's fine because that's what Florida

10:35:12 statutes allows.

10:35:13 But I think this goes further than Florida stats United

10:35:14 States allows.

10:35:15 And I think that it really makes us violate in sort of

10:35:19 a round-about way, I think it makes us part of sort of

10:35:23 participate in violation of public records act, or at

10:35:25 least the spirit of the public records act.

10:35:28 So I won't be supporting it.

10:35:30 And frankly I prefer us to go back and renegotiate with

10:35:33 Office Depot and see if they will tweak that agreement

10:35:37 to just address the trade secrets.

10:35:40 >>MARY MULHERN: You have read that --

10:35:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes, I spent way too much time on

10:35:48 it.

10:35:48 I read the agreement.

10:35:50 I read some case law, spent a couple hours on it

10:35:55 yesterday.

10:35:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone like to move 39?

10:35:58 >> Would you repeat that again?

10:36:00 Because way heard from you and way heard from a lawyer

10:36:03 who is a council member who is not a lawyer at the




10:36:06 present makes no sense to me from either one of you.

10:36:09 I want to hear the clarity of the facts, one saying you

10:36:12 can't do it, and the other saying it's fine, it puts

10:36:17 the burden on them, the other saying no, they are know

10:36:20 good, this and the other.

10:36:24 Go play tennis for two hours and come back and sweat it

10:36:27 off.

10:36:27 I don't know what in the world is going on between 39

10:36:31 and the real facts.

10:36:32 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: City attorney.

10:36:35 Let me just kind of address the policy issue for

10:36:38 council, because I think there is one.

10:36:43 Basically we are in a dispute with Office Depot about

10:36:45 our right to audit their records based on the series of

10:36:48 contracts that they have used to do business with them.

10:36:50 As a way of settling that dispute, what they have

10:36:55 offered is their standard confidentiality contract,

10:36:58 which probably 85% of it is their standard

10:37:01 confidentiality contract which works in business

10:37:03 context, with a provision that basically says if

10:37:11 there's anything in here which is inconsistent with the

10:37:13 public records law, we will defend that, and indemnify




10:37:20 the city.

10:37:21 Now, the definition of confidentiality that they use is

10:37:25 very, very similar, but not exactly the same as the

10:37:28 trade secrets exemption in our statute, the public

10:37:31 records act.

10:37:32 So as a way of resolving this dispute and essentially

10:37:38 like a settlement between the two of us, this is an

10:37:41 approach of that we felt was comfortable because it

10:37:43 references the public records act and doesn't provide

10:37:46 in our view any protection beyond the public records

10:37:49 act.

10:37:50 Now, I can't disagree with the statement that the way

10:37:54 the term confidential information is used here is a

10:37:56 little bit broader than what is in the trade secrets

10:38:01 exemption.

10:38:01 But it's a compromise.

10:38:04 It is a settlement of the dispute.

10:38:06 It allows us to get in an audit a lot faster than if we

10:38:09 had to litigate our authority to audit.

10:38:12 And that's the long and the short of it.

10:38:14 So if council is not comfortable with that approach to

10:38:18 dealing with the issue, then council can vote against




10:38:21 it.

10:38:21 But it will limit potentially prevent us from going in

10:38:25 and auditing without extensive litigation.

10:38:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Is this a stand-alone item or do

10:38:36 other corporations have the same or likewise same type

10:38:39 of agreements?

10:38:40 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: This type of approach is not

10:38:43 unusual.

10:38:44 What my preference would be, frankly, is to use the

10:38:47 definition of the trade secrets in our statute which

10:38:52 for businesses -- Florida businesses we typically do.

10:38:56 This is not a Florida business so we have not been able

10:38:58 to reach that accommodation but it is a very common

10:39:00 practice.

10:39:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: May I continue one more and I'm

10:39:05 out?

10:39:06 Are we saying the only ones that can provide us what we

10:39:08 are buying is only available from Office Depot or from

10:39:11 other sources?

10:39:12 >> I'm sorry, could you repeat?

10:39:14 >> Were you saying in this item 39 that we continue to

10:39:16 purchase from Office Depot, or are there other vendors




10:39:22 who would meet the same qualifications?

10:39:24 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: This is not changing any of our

10:39:27 procurement practices.

10:39:27 >> You can buy from anybody you want?

10:39:29 >> Whoever we have a contract with right now or whoever

10:39:31 we have a contract with in the future we can buy from.

10:39:33 >>MARY MULHERN: So this isn't part of the contract?

10:39:38 This is part of the litigation?

10:39:41 >> This is an independent contract.

10:39:43 This is just our ability to go in and figure out if

10:39:46 they owe us money.

10:39:52 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to see you -- I would

10:39:54 like to support Mr. Dingfelder and see you go back to

10:39:59 the table and tell them that we want them to adopt our

10:40:05 language, our statute language, statutory trade secrets

10:40:10 language.

10:40:13 >> If I may, Madam Chair.

10:40:18 We have made that attempt with them.

10:40:20 If you all are comfortable -- aren't comfortable

10:40:25 agreeing to it we can take another shot, if we can't

10:40:27 get there, we may bring it back to you just one more

10:40:31 attempt to get it resolved.




10:40:32 We have taken that route.

10:40:36 But we can try again if that's council's pleasure.

10:40:38 >>MARY MULHERN: But I think Mr. Miranda makes an

10:40:41 excellent point that we don't -- they need us to buy

10:40:45 from them and we don't need to buy it from them.

10:40:48 >> This is somebody supposedly wanting to spend our

10:41:07 city money with them.

10:41:08 And so why don't we do this to send a message?

10:41:11 Why don't we reject item 39, okay, with no offense to

10:41:17 you, Chip, Sal, or the legal department, and the hard

10:41:21 work you have done.

10:41:21 But if we reject it we are sending a very strong

10:41:24 message that we don't like that broader language, that

10:41:28 we want them to go back to use the Florida statute

10:41:30 language.

10:41:31 And then we are all comfortable with it.

10:41:33 And so on that basis I'll move to reject item 39 and

10:41:38 hopefully you can come back with better language.

10:41:39 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.

10:41:43 All in favor say Aye.

10:41:44 Opposed, Nay.

10:41:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, council.




10:41:51 Thank you, Chip.

10:41:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Is that it?

10:41:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm getting there.

10:41:55 The next one was item 63 which staff just went and

10:41:59 explained it to me.

10:42:00 I'll move item 63.

10:42:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

10:42:02 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.

10:42:04 (Motion carried).

10:42:06 >> They explained it to me yesterday but the

10:42:08 explanation yesterday wasn't satisfactory.

10:42:10 They came and reexplained it today which is better.

10:42:12 And item 65, who speaking is to that, Steve?

10:42:22 We entered into an agreement we've the southwest -- I

10:42:25 don't know who they are -- signal last year for

10:42:28 maintenance and repair and removal of traffic control

10:42:32 and streetlight systems, which is fine.

10:42:34 Now apparently we have some additional money for

10:42:37 something like that, and we want to go ahead and renew

10:42:42 the agreement for an additional year without bidding

10:42:49 it.

10:42:49 Without bidding it.




10:42:50 And my point is, this is sort of a labor contract.

10:42:55 And from what I can see it a lot of labor.

10:42:57 It probably some parts but a lot of labor.

10:43:00 But I'm thinking to myself, in these economic times,

10:43:02 why aren't we bidding these things to get a cheaper

10:43:06 price?

10:43:07 Everybody is hungry, okay.

10:43:10 These people have to be hungry.

10:43:11 This industry has to be hungry.

10:43:13 And I can't help but think that we can do a better job

10:43:16 if we rebid it.

10:43:18 And so that's where I'm coming from on item 65.

10:43:22 I'm sure -- sure it's a fine company.

10:43:24 I'm sure we have a God relationship with them.

10:43:26 I'm sure it was a good contract last year but now it's

10:43:29 a new million dollars that we are looking at and if we

10:43:32 can rebid it and maybe save 10% by getting them to

10:43:35 sharpen their pencils, why wouldn't we do that?

10:43:38 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Administrator for public works and

10:43:40 utility services.

10:43:42 This contract is specialty work, as it turns out.

10:43:46 They deal with our streetlights and the controllers and




10:43:48 that sort of thing for traffic control.

10:43:52 There's only a couple of companies that do this, and we

10:43:55 do bid this out on a regular basis.

10:43:59 This is a renewal of a contract that was award add

10:44:02 couple of years ago that has been a good contract, very

10:44:06 reliable, very responsive contractor.

10:44:09 That is has not always been the case, and we have some

10:44:13 high profile items, specifically the two weighing of

10:44:17 Polk, and Zack Street, and the item up in New Tampa

10:44:21 that is at regents park and Bruce B. Downs, that

10:44:28 intersection.

10:44:29 So those items specifically are items that again this

10:44:32 contractor, we think the price are still competitive,

10:44:36 and we would still like to move ahead with it.

10:44:38 >> How do you know the prices are still competitive?

10:44:41 Because you didn't know I was pulling this item.

10:44:43 I didn't see anything in the background that indicated

10:44:45 that anybody had specifically checked.

10:44:50 Did you check?

10:44:51 >> We see what other bids are going out for these

10:44:53 items, and they don't change that much, again because

10:44:56 it is pretty much a specialty --




10:44:59 >> This is why we bid.

10:45:01 And if these people come back and they get the contract

10:45:03 again, fantastic.

10:45:05 They are doing a good job for us now, they will do a

10:45:08 good job for us later, but it a million dollars.

10:45:10 We are about to talk to Karen Palus in a few minutes

10:45:13 about five dollar feelings and $10 fees.

10:45:17 We are scraping.

10:45:18 And that comes out of the same fund.

10:45:20 It's the general fund.

10:45:21 So I just think that we should bid this.

10:45:25 And if we need to go into a temporary agreement with

10:45:28 them for a month or two, you know, while we are bidding

10:45:31 it, because we have some time delay, fine.

10:45:33 But I just think that we should bid it.

10:45:36 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: By approving this today, we will

10:45:40 just be again allowing yourself ourselves to continue

10:45:43 to use this contract.

10:45:45 It does not have to be for a year.

10:45:47 It's just for as long as we want to use them.

10:45:51 The contract will continue to be in existence.

10:45:53 We can still go forward and put together another bid




10:45:57 process and put this back out on the street.

10:45:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If you want to a sure me, this

10:46:03 councilman, that you will start the bidding process

10:46:06 today and you will rebid it within the next, you know,

10:46:10 60 days or whatever, I'll be fine to move this for

10:46:13 approval on that basis.

10:46:14 And that would be a good faith between you and me, and

10:46:17 I would be fine to move it.

10:46:18 I don't know what the rest of council would do.

10:46:21 But on that basis.

10:46:22 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: I can say that we will be moving

10:46:25 forward with putting it together in the normal process.

10:46:28 I can't guarantee you that it will be 60 days at this

10:46:31 moment, because I don't have all that under my control.

10:46:33 >> You have your purse string manager sitting there to

10:46:39 probably help you.

10:46:40 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: In reference to regent's park and

10:46:44 Bruce B. Downs, according to Mike Scanlan from the

10:46:46 traffic department, this is one of the second worst

10:46:49 intersections in the city.

10:46:51 It's impacting the traffic there.

10:46:54 One night I was on the phone with a city official and




10:46:56 he said, what's that noise?

10:46:58 I said I'm in the middle of the road and I can't move.

10:47:00 Some guy was blowing his horn.

10:47:03 Every day there's an accident at that intersection.

10:47:05 It needs to be done.

10:47:10 Evidently, this company has done a lot of work for the

10:47:13 city.

10:47:13 I know it's hurting.

10:47:15 It needs to be corrected.

10:47:18 Every day there's property damage there.

10:47:20 Every day.

10:47:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to speak, if I may.

10:47:28 I'm listening to mixed signals, Madam Chair.

10:47:32 If you re-bid it, that's fine with me.

10:47:35 But what I'm hearing is 60 days are out, folks, when

10:47:39 you look at math, that's one sixth of a year.

10:47:46 Two months.

10:47:47 So could go three months.

10:47:50 What is that in math?

10:47:52 It may go four months before you get the bid back.

10:47:54 I don't know.

10:47:56 So you want to satisfy all the parties?




10:48:00 Do I think we are doing the right thing?

10:48:02 I believe if you tell me, sir, I have to take you for

10:48:08 your word, you are in trouble with other vendors in

10:48:13 this same arena, this same focus.

10:48:16 I certain don't want to have a vendor pull in a signal

10:48:19 that is faulty and then you create an accident, and now

10:48:22 through good attorneyship we find out we are going to

10:48:27 be held liable for something that somebody put out that

10:48:30 was inferior work.

10:48:31 Whether that's true or not, I really don't know.

10:48:34 But in this business, you have to make some type of

10:48:36 exception sometime in your life.

10:48:41 On one side I'm hearing one thing.

10:48:44 On the on the side hearing another thing about the

10:48:46 busiest intersection.

10:48:47 So I'm for passing this and taking your word that you

10:48:50 will rebid it or try to rebid it and what you come out

10:48:56 with.

10:48:57 However, if it's higher than whoever made the motion

10:49:00 should pay for it.

10:49:02 [ Laughter ]

10:49:02 >> Salary.




10:49:08 >> That's questionable because there are others ha that

10:49:11 are going to be there, too.

10:49:13 What I am saying if that's the case then I'm all for

10:49:16 it.

10:49:16 I haven't heard anything to change my mind yet.

10:49:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Clarification.

10:49:20 If we pass this, then you aren't going to rebid it.

10:49:23 If we pass this you will accept the contract for a

10:49:26 million dollars that's before us, correct?

10:49:28 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Council member, this contract will

10:49:31 expire in March.

10:49:32 If we approve this, then it will continue beyond March

10:49:35 and I will be able to continue to deal with and have

10:49:38 repairs to signals when we have accidents, when we have

10:49:42 needs.

10:49:42 I just need that annual contract.

10:49:45 I can terminate this contract at any time.

10:49:48 And so if we were to go out and rebid it some time

10:49:52 after you approve this, then we would stop using that

10:49:56 contract and move onto the next one.

10:49:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Council is interested in two

10:50:03 things.




10:50:04 Obviously continuing to meet our needs in terms of

10:50:07 public safety.

10:50:08 And also to gets a good price.

10:50:10 Can you do the two things simultaneously?

10:50:13 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: My recommendation to you today is

10:50:15 to approve this so that I can continue to provide that

10:50:18 service, that we continue to service our needs at these

10:50:22 this signals.

10:50:23 I recognize, we all wants to do things as cheaply as we

10:50:27 possibly can.

10:50:27 At our end of the business, we also need to be

10:50:29 reliable.

10:50:31 We need somebody to respond quickly when there's an

10:50:34 accident, when there is a need.

10:50:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Daignault, I have a suggestion

10:50:38 that's very Solomon, splitting the baby, saying six

10:50:41 months, to continue this for six months which will

10:50:43 allow more than adequate time to go and rebid it.

10:50:46 That will give you the continuity and also allow for

10:50:47 the rebidding.

10:50:48 That would be my motion.

10:50:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second to that motion.




10:50:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?

10:50:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here is the problem.

10:50:57 Mr. Spearman, there's no brain surgery involved.

10:51:05 With all due respect, I used to do this purchasing.

10:51:08 There's nothing -- it's not that hard for us to get a

10:51:10 bid back on the street.

10:51:11 It's the same bid we have been doing.

10:51:13 And, Greg, we turn these things a around in 30, 60,

10:51:17 maybe at the most 90 days.

10:51:19 I don't know why we extend to the six moments.

10:51:22 So now half the year is gone and the potential savings

10:51:24 has drifted away.

10:51:26 So can't we just theoretically -- and I know we can't

10:51:32 bind the administration on this motion as Marty just

10:51:35 whispered in my ear, but can't we seriously just bid

10:51:39 this in 30, 60 days, and see what the view is?

10:51:45 >>GREG SPEARMAN: Director of purchasing.

10:51:46 We could do that.

10:51:47 But in support of Mr. Daignault's concerns, we may be

10:51:51 jeopardizing the city in terms of these intersections

10:51:55 and the --

10:51:57 >> The contract keeps going.




10:51:58 Even if you have a bid, the contract that we are

10:52:01 approving -- I'm saying we'll approve the contract

10:52:03 today.

10:52:04 And the contract keeps going until you terminate it.

10:52:07 In the meantime you can rebid it.

10:52:08 My question specifically, Greg, can't you rebid this in

10:52:11 30, 60 days?

10:52:13 >> We can't rebid it within the 30 days.

10:52:21 With all due respect.

10:52:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I question whether the motion is in

10:52:25 order.

10:52:25 And the reason I say this is because you have a

10:52:28 resolution before you to approve the contract as

10:52:30 written.

10:52:31 You have the option of either voting it up or voting it

10:52:34 down.

10:52:35 In six months you are going to in fact renegotiate a

10:52:37 contract --

10:52:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: But my motion is to approve or

10:52:40 reject the contract before us and for you to come back

10:52:43 at our next council meeting, which is in a week --

10:52:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Two weeks.




10:52:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Two weeks, with a six-month

10:52:52 contract.

10:52:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Fletcher?

10:52:58 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: If I understood the discussion

10:52:59 right, if I could make a suggestion which would be to

10:53:01 approve this contract with a request for them to come

10:53:04 back in six months regarding whether or not you are

10:53:07 going to rebid.

10:53:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No.

10:53:09 No.

10:53:09 That's not my --

10:53:11 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Then your motion needs to just

10:53:14 deny the contract.

10:53:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My motion then is to reject this

10:53:18 contract, encouraging the administration, item number

10:53:22 65, because I know we can do better.

10:53:24 And I know that you can come back in two weeks with

10:53:26 something in six months, because a bird in the hand in

10:53:30 this economy means that they will be motivated to do

10:53:32 that.

10:53:32 If they don't, then somebody else will.

10:53:35 >>MARY MULHERN: When this has come up before, we have




10:53:42 had contracts to renew, we have often, or at least the

10:53:47 few times I can remember just voted that down because

10:53:51 if you don't renew, you automatically are still under

10:53:55 contract.

10:53:56 That's what I've heard from you, Mr. Daignault, other

10:53:59 times.

10:54:09 I agree with Mr. Miranda.

10:54:10 I trust your judgment on this.

10:54:12 I trust that you will come back with rebidding it.

10:54:19 I'll support Ms. Saul's first motion or whatever with

10:54:25 the understanding you are going to rebid.

10:54:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Shelby.

10:54:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You had a motion that Mrs. Saul-Sena

10:54:32 made on the floor regarding changing the terms of the

10:54:35 contract to six months.

10:54:36 That was seconded.

10:54:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I withdraw that and put in my

10:54:40 motion to deny.

10:54:41 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The motion now is to deny.

10:54:44 Is there a second on that one?

10:54:47 >>GWEN MILLER: No.

10:54:47 >>MARY MULHERN: I seconded the first one but not the




10:54:54 last one.

10:54:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: On one side you have this debate.

10:54:58 On the other side, what happens if nothing happens?

10:55:00 In other words, this contract ends, and you have an

10:55:04 incident where you need someone to go fix whatever you

10:55:07 got, at some intersection, and then you call these

10:55:10 people and they say, who are you?

10:55:12 I don't have a contract with you.

10:55:15 That could happen.

10:55:16 >> And they can charge any price they want.

10:55:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That could happen.

10:55:21 So what I'm saying it, it sounds great too read this

10:55:25 and feels great to hear this but in reality this is not

10:55:29 a pimple.

10:55:30 You just don't squeeze it and it's gone.

10:55:33 This is something that takes a lot more votes, and I

10:55:39 got your attention with the pimple, didn't I?

10:55:42 But what I'm saying is that this is a lot more in

10:55:46 detail, because it could happen.

10:55:48 These things do happen.

10:55:49 And you wouldn't need the lender.

10:55:52 You wouldn't need the contract ever.




10:55:54 So it does happen.

10:55:55 It does occur.

10:55:58 And now what do you do with director of public works?

10:56:02 They can charge you at whatever rate they want because

10:56:04 you do not have a contract with them.

10:56:06 There's two sides to every argument.

10:56:08 I tried to get to the middle of it.

10:56:10 >> That was my question.

10:56:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Daignault explained to us -- if we

10:56:18 pass number 65 he would come back to us and put out

10:56:21 another bid.

10:56:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Did he say that?

10:56:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes, he said he would come back.

10:56:27 Yes, did he.

10:56:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I withdraw my motion.

10:56:29 >>GWEN MILLER: So just give him a chance.

10:56:35 We are making a motion to give him six months.

10:56:37 Why don't we just pass this one and give him that time.

10:56:40 And I believe when he comes back he will have the bids

10:56:43 out.

10:56:43 And that's what you are asking.

10:56:44 You want new bids and the bids to be coming back.




10:56:47 Mr. Dingfelder.

10:56:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And that's exactly what I was going

10:56:51 to say.

10:56:51 Steve and I go on each other's word a lot.

10:56:54 And once Steve says that he would rebid this, I would

10:56:57 like to see it rebid.

10:56:59 Greg said it could be rebid in 30, 60 days.

10:57:02 I am going to take you on your word that you all are

10:57:04 going to do that.

10:57:05 I pulled it because I think we can save money.

10:57:08 I'm going to move item 65 so we will have a contract in

10:57:11 place.

10:57:11 It important we have this contract in place so the work

10:57:15 can continue, because this contract expires the first

10:57:17 week in March.

10:57:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Right.

10:57:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Which I think you guys should bring

10:57:21 the contracts to us earlier for the renewal, but that's

10:57:24 another issue. Anyway, I will move item 65.

10:57:28 And the side note is I am going to hold Steve to his

10:57:32 word, mano a mano that you will rebid this in the next

10:57:39 months or two.




10:57:39 >> We have a motion and second.

10:57:42 All in favor of? Opposed?

10:57:45 >>MARY MULHERN: I still have a question.

10:57:46 Because I'm going to support the motion.

10:57:50 But I asked you if we did not support the motion if the

10:57:57 contract would automatically continue.

10:58:06 >> As I said previously, this contract expires on March

10:58:08 5th.

10:58:09 After March 5th, if this is not approved, I do not

10:58:12 have a contract with this vendor.

10:58:14 >>MARY MULHERN: So what are these times when you come

10:58:17 in front of us and you tell us, is that a different

10:58:20 kind of contract, or renewable?

10:58:22 This is not a renewable contract.

10:58:23 Is that what you are saying?

10:58:25 >> This is renewable but it has to be renewed.

10:58:29 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Chip those all depend on what the

10:58:34 contract languages says.

10:58:36 Some automatically renew.

10:58:37 Some don't.

10:58:38 Some allow an extension.

10:58:38 >>MARY MULHERN: So that's the question, it's one of




10:58:43 those that automatically renews?

10:58:45 >> In this particular case, the answer is no.

10:58:47 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.

10:58:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Mr. Daignault.

10:58:50 We now move on to staff reports.

10:58:52 Item 74.

10:58:53 >>KAREN PALUS: Parks and recreation director.

10:59:02 I'm here on item 74.

10:59:03 You had asked me to present some information regarding

10:59:07 three items, A, B and C, and I will go over them

10:59:10 individually.

10:59:11 Item A was the ability of the Parks and Recreation

10:59:12 Department to create a trade-off between the value done

10:59:18 for the Tampa community band, being charged fees.

10:59:23 As I believe some of you may be aware, we did offer Mr.

10:59:26 Solomon's group three options in which option 3 did

10:59:31 take into account by offering him the opportunity to

10:59:34 perform four times for us at a reduced rate and for the

10:59:39 weekly practices in which his group has requested at

10:59:43 Kate Jackson.

10:59:44 So he's got three options in which to work from.

10:59:47 One of which was an option but really one of the




10:59:52 biggest challenges this group is having and a couple

10:59:55 others that I will mention a little bit is the fact

10:59:56 that the majority of their participants are non-city

11:00:01 residents.

11:00:02 And so therein lies the challenge for them, about $115

11:00:07 as a non-city resident over the $15 for a city

11:00:10 resident.

11:00:11 So those folks that typically go to like a club

11:00:14 atmosphere, we have had some challenges with a couple

11:00:16 of those folks, one with of which was the private

11:00:19 group, the twirlers, the square dancing group out of

11:00:26 Barksdale and was predominantly nonresidents as well

11:00:29 and we worked with a couple of options they want to

11:00:32 keep and remain their club very private, and we have

11:00:34 got another band that was doing a very similar type

11:00:37 thing, but again they collected fees and wanted to keep

11:00:40 that private as well.

11:00:41 So we have tried to work with each of the groups and

11:00:44 provide options, and we are still willing to work with

11:00:46 them, but we have given Mr. Solomon's group right now

11:00:49 three options at this time.

11:00:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.




11:00:51 Since there are several parks related issues if we

11:00:54 could take them one at a time.

11:00:59 I was very interested in you offering a fourth option,

11:01:01 which would be that the Tampa community band gave us

11:01:06 all a copy of all their performances, which are for the

11:01:11 benefit of the community, they are free, these aren't

11:01:15 paid musician, they are all volunteers, they are doing

11:01:17 it for the love of music and performing for free in our

11:01:20 public venues.

11:01:21 I would like to see a fourth option, and I need

11:01:25 clarification from legal.

11:01:26 Can we dictate the fees charged by parks and rec, is

11:01:34 that within council's purview?

11:01:36 >> You can set by resolution of council.

11:01:38 >> So we can do that.

11:01:39 My fourth option idea is if they provide these public

11:01:42 concerts, which indeed they do, in fact they provide

11:01:44 more than four, that we don't charge them any fee at

11:01:47 all, because my understanding is they are using a room

11:01:51 at one of our rec centers.

11:01:54 They don't require supervision.

11:01:56 They don't require any particular -- anything other




11:01:59 than the recreation center being opened, the lights

11:02:02 being on.

11:02:03 These are responsible grownups who clean up after

11:02:06 themselves, and I would like to make a resolution that

11:02:12 we -- offer them a fourth option, that if they

11:02:15 perform -- and this wouldn't be specific to this group,

11:02:19 that any group that provides a specific public service

11:02:22 such as four concerts year or four something a year, if

11:02:29 they want to practice at our facility and it doesn't

11:02:31 require, now, firing up a KILN or something additional,

11:02:35 just physically using the room, that we don't charge

11:02:38 them additional fees.

11:02:40 And I want to hear from my colleagues.

11:02:42 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Just to be clear we are not

11:02:46 talking about a special fee for this group, talking

11:02:51 about changing the fee schedule that council adopted

11:02:53 previously to create a new category that would

11:02:56 essentially do what Ms. Palus' third option was, where

11:03:03 the entity provides a service within -- a free service

11:03:07 within the system, that they would -- that would be

11:03:10 kind of the in-kind for the fee.

11:03:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you for clarifying it.




11:03:23 I don't think we need a resolution.

11:03:24 I think it's the option 3.

11:03:26 But the way Mr. Fletcher stated it, that it isn't

11:03:32 specific to this group, it specific to any public group

11:03:35 that provides a public service specifically defined for

11:03:39 the public.

11:03:40 If there were cloggers.

11:03:43 If the cloggers practiced and performed public clogging

11:03:46 and that makes people happy, that that would be, you

11:03:48 know --

11:03:50 >>MARY MULHERN: (off microphone).

11:03:54 >>KAREN PALUS: If I could address the council.

11:03:57 I want you all to keep in mind that this is one group.

11:04:00 It is.

11:04:00 However, we have multiple groups out there utilizing

11:04:05 our facilities that are doing these kind of services

11:04:08 throughout the City of Tampa.

11:04:10 Not specifically to our sites, and that's what option 3

11:04:13 was.

11:04:13 Mr. Solomon's group is not providing to the City of

11:04:21 Tampa.

11:04:21 He's providing services in Carrollwood.




11:04:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: He would be required to do four

11:04:27 concerts.

11:04:28 >> That's what the option 3 is.

11:04:34 >> And I believe they are capable of doing it and I

11:04:36 believe they are capable of doing it now.

11:04:38 He's kind of nodding that they are.

11:04:40 This would be very specifically they would be required

11:04:42 to give four benefit concerts for our citizens in

11:04:46 Tampa.

11:04:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Only if you are the lead singer.

11:04:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: You don't know what you are getting

11:04:57 into.

11:04:57 The other thing they change is talk about work as man

11:05:01 hours.

11:05:01 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: If I could make a suggestion.

11:05:05 City attorney.

11:05:06 If I'm hearing this right, taking what Karen had

11:05:08 described as the option, what I would suggest is we try

11:05:13 to draft something and bring back to you something that

11:05:18 would fit that schedule, without creating other issues.

11:05:21 Because we do need to make sure that it's something

11:05:24 that's going to work and is applicable across the




11:05:25 board.

11:05:27 And figure out how it fits in with the revenues.

11:05:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The motion would be that legal come

11:05:32 back with what we both have been discussing.

11:05:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll second it but I do think it

11:05:40 needs to be generic, so we are not just speaking to

11:05:43 this particular group, because apparently there are a

11:05:45 few on the groups out there in similar situations, and

11:05:49 I think they should be treated favorably as well.

11:05:52 >>GWEN MILLER: So the other groups out there, they

11:05:54 have to participate the same way --

11:05:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Whatever they do, they would have

11:05:59 to do it for the benefit of our parks and recreation,

11:06:03 at least four times a year.

11:06:06 And not just at the end, to specifically benefit parks

11:06:10 and recreation, because that's the universal.

11:06:15 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.

11:06:18 All in favor of the motion say Aye.

11:06:19 Opposed, Nay.

11:06:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Legal come back to us at the

11:06:23 meeting March 4th with this.

11:06:25 It's not that complicated.




11:06:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I just want to make sure that's part

11:06:42 of the motion, that it show up on the agenda?

11:06:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That it's part of the agenda in,

11:06:46 written form is fine.

11:06:47 >>KAREN PALUS: There's two other items.

11:06:51 You asked to speak in regards to the new fee structure

11:06:53 that resulted in program of Parks and Recreation

11:06:54 Department being canceled.

11:06:57 As related to specifically our department canceling

11:06:59 programs, the fee structure has not impacted us in that

11:07:03 way at this time.

11:07:05 It has reduced some of our programming as you heard

11:07:08 from some of our folks today regarding after-school

11:07:11 program and such, which we anticipated back and

11:07:15 continue to work towards sharing that information.

11:07:17 I can talk a little more about what you heard

11:07:19 specifically, but as far as us canceling programs, that

11:07:23 has not been the case, as regards specifically to the

11:07:26 fee schedule.

11:07:27 We have, however, in programs, there's been a multitude

11:07:34 of things around Kate Jackson that has reduced the

11:07:37 number of attendance at that location on the beyond the




11:07:40 fee schedule.

11:07:41 We have the school closed down.

11:07:43 We have another school running its own after-school

11:07:46 program.

11:07:47 We have limited facilities at that location.

11:07:48 We have gone through the school year with between four

11:07:51 to eight children participating after school.

11:07:53 What we have done is meeting with the parents to

11:07:57 incorporate them into our Cyrus green facility up the

11:08:01 road from them, and we have been looking at that with

11:08:03 our different locations to see how consolidating some

11:08:05 of those programs will make more sense beyond just the

11:08:08 facility, but also for those students, so they have the

11:08:11 opportunity to interact with more children,

11:08:15 participating in more facilities that have more to

11:08:17 offer.

11:08:17 So we have been looking through that through all of our

11:08:20 locations.

11:08:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Palus, we had heard earlier that at

11:08:30 oaks and yacht center enrollment has gone down at the

11:08:34 after-school because the fee had gone up.

11:08:36 >>KAREN PALUS: There has been a reduction.




11:08:39 We anticipated that.

11:08:41 But I will share one of the things we have been working

11:08:43 with and I can go back to the specific questions if you

11:08:45 like me to in regards to the scholarship and the

11:08:48 reduced fees.

11:08:49 For example, Cyrus green is one with that has seen a

11:08:53 reduction and they are running about 49 participants in

11:08:56 it.

11:08:56 39 of those folks are on reduced fee program.

11:08:59 So they are paying five or ten dollars a week for the

11:09:02 program that was initially slated for 25.

11:09:04 We have a reduced sliding scale.

11:09:06 It's very confidential.

11:09:07 Very private and very quick.

11:09:09 We are doing that on-site.

11:09:11 I know I heard the scholarships, you have to go to

11:09:15 Himes.

11:09:16 That's not true.

11:09:16 They can actually fill out the scholarship.

11:09:20 They can fill out the scholarship fund site.

11:09:22 We have also been bringing our fiscal folks, so it's

11:09:25 private and confidential.




11:09:26 It's not the staff that are working with the kids and

11:09:28 the families day in and day out.

11:09:30 It's it our fiscal folks that come out to the site.

11:09:33 We scheduled those.

11:09:34 We let the families know they can come in, bring their

11:09:36 information, go through the paperwork, and they know

11:09:42 then and there where they fall.

11:09:44 We processed over 950 folks through the sliding scale

11:09:47 program.

11:09:47 We also offered over 30 scholarships thus far.

11:09:51 It.

11:09:51 >>GWEN MILLER: So they do have right to scholarships?

11:09:54 >>KAREN PALUS: Definitely.

11:09:56 And the ones that are handling our scholarships, even

11:09:59 if they fall for reduced fee and still have a hardship,

11:10:03 they can apply for those scholarships.

11:10:06 They have been working a fund raiser to incorporate

11:10:09 that.

11:10:09 In fact they just received an $11,000 grant for this

11:10:12 year's scholarships for summer program.

11:10:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Good Ms. Mulhern.

11:10:19 >>MARY MULHERN: That's good to hear.




11:10:21 I hope you will get in touch with all the mothers who

11:10:24 spoke today about this, because what we were hearing

11:10:30 from them single-family the program participation had

11:10:34 dropped specifically because people couldn't afford it.

11:10:37 And these are working mothers who mostly can't show up

11:10:42 at a council meeting.

11:10:43 So we haven't heard from everybody.

11:10:45 It sounds like you just need to get the word out.

11:10:49 And I hope that's it.

11:10:50 But I would also like to hear from you next time we

11:10:54 talk about this, what the total numbers are, the

11:11:00 numbers in the after-school program, and in the fall

11:11:05 after the summer programs, in comparison from the new

11:11:11 fee schedule to see if we really are -- if we are

11:11:14 losing a lot of people.

11:11:15 It sounds like the people we are losing are the people

11:11:17 that need us the most.

11:11:18 >>KAREN PALUS: Councilwoman Mulhern, if I can share.

11:11:27 We have lost a percentage of a lot of those locations,

11:11:30 and again we anticipated that.

11:11:32 Remember the program was completely free before

11:11:34 after-school.




11:11:36 They had their activity fee and our numbers for

11:11:38 activity fees were a certain level, our numbers for

11:11:43 after-school were free, but could register and not

11:11:46 participate because it was a backup scenario in a lot

11:11:49 of our locations.

11:11:50 There's really the facilities that we have noticed the

11:11:52 most significant changes other than Forest Hills, and I

11:11:56 would expect that to see a more direct correlation is

11:11:59 that non-resident issue.

11:12:01 A lot of our facilities border very close to the

11:12:05 county.

11:12:05 For example, I'll give the New Tampa example.

11:12:09 We have seen a reduction of 30% at that particular

11:12:12 after-school program because if you are driving down

11:12:15 Cross Creek, right across the street is the county.

11:12:18 So we have seen a lot of decrease in the area.

11:12:22 Hunt is another one that has an example of that where

11:12:24 we have seen a significant decline in the after-school

11:12:27 program, because of that location being so close to the

11:12:30 county.

11:12:31 And they have all of the school facilities now have

11:12:35 after-school programs, so they don't have to worry




11:12:37 about transportation and things.

11:12:39 >>MARY MULHERN: That was another thing.

11:12:41 I brought this up before so forgive me if I am

11:12:43 repeating myself from another meeting.

11:12:45 But the facilities fees, people used to be able to join

11:12:49 their local parks facilities, right?

11:12:53 And then they can do anything there.

11:12:55 And I have heard that that's become a hardship for some

11:12:58 people as opposed to having to pay for everything.

11:13:01 And every time they want to use the pool they have to

11:13:03 pay as opposed to joining.

11:13:06 >>KAREN PALUS: What we have done before, under the old

11:13:10 program we had the activity fee which everybody pays

11:13:14 $12 whether you use after-school, whether you

11:13:16 participate in a fitness room or you just came --

11:13:20 everybody pays the same amount.

11:13:22 You do not pay anything for use of the pool, period.

11:13:24 There was no collection opportunity the way we were

11:13:27 structured previously.

11:13:29 So now everyone is paying $15.

11:13:32 If you are a city resident, everybody pays $15.

11:13:35 We also have family pass for folks available, if you




11:13:37 have more than --

11:13:39 >>MARY MULHERN: 15 for --

11:13:41 >>KAREN PALUS: $15 a year.

11:13:43 That gives you access to open gym, our voluntary

11:13:48 programs that we have available, any of our events and

11:13:50 things.

11:13:52 The pools do have a fee involved and we have an annual

11:13:55 pass for that as well.

11:13:56 >> How much is that?

11:13:57 >> I don't have that off the top of my head but it's in

11:13:59 that range of $50.

11:14:02 >> That's one of the things I heard about was the

11:14:05 Sulphur Springs people where people probably can't

11:14:08 afford $50 to join.

11:14:09 >> That's for like a family.

11:14:11 We have a couple different ways to do that.

11:14:14 We can work with that.

11:14:15 And I can give you the specifics.

11:14:16 >>MARY MULHERN: If you can give me the specifics maybe

11:14:24 on Sulphur Springs, that would be good.

11:14:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have also heard about Sulphur

11:14:27 Springs, about a dramatic drop-off in the number of




11:14:30 kids.

11:14:31 I'm very pleased to hear about this scholarship.

11:14:35 It sounds very generous.

11:14:36 What we need to do is somehow, I don't know how to do

11:14:39 this, but recontact the people whose children used to

11:14:43 go there, who left because they thought they couldn't

11:14:45 afford it, make them aware that they can sign up and

11:14:48 perhaps receive the scholarships at the Sulphur Springs

11:14:52 rec center, and would it take you 60 days to come back

11:14:56 to us with numbers of -- before the fees and now after

11:14:59 the fees?

11:15:00 I want to give -- I want this to ab success.

11:15:03 I know that we haven't given you the money that you

11:15:07 need to do, to have to run all the programs you want to

11:15:10 have.

11:15:11 I know all of us would much rather spend money on parks

11:15:14 and rec than down the road on law enforcement.

11:15:17 It just makes so much sense.

11:15:19 But keeping the kids in a healthy environment, off the

11:15:22 streets, is where we want to see our resources placed.

11:15:27 Give us some feedback numbers of kids, fees, and what

11:15:30 you are looking at in terms of lessening of the city




11:15:34 budget, because as we look ahead to this next year and

11:15:37 even as we are in the middle of this budget, we want to

11:15:40 provide you the resources that you need to make our

11:15:43 programs available to as many kids in our community as

11:15:46 possible.

11:15:48 Council really cares about that.

11:15:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Miranda?

11:15:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Just a couple of things.

11:15:54 I heard this morning from citizens speak about Jackson

11:15:58 Heights and different things that they were, 130

11:16:02 participants.

11:16:03 Now there are 48, Kate, Robles, are closed.

11:16:09 That's way heard.

11:16:11 And the thing that I'm thinking about is they were

11:16:15 saying we are going to give you more resources, and

11:16:17 then next week on the 22nd we are going to meet with

11:16:19 the mayor.

11:16:21 Now what they are going to tell us?

11:16:22 That the resources are even scarcer this year than last

11:16:27 year because you are going to have an decrease in the

11:16:31 budget of about 25 to $30 million.

11:16:34 But that's just me speaking.




11:16:37 I understand your program, and I understand that we are

11:16:40 not back in the 50s.

11:16:42 But in the 50s it was a quarter, 25 cents, to use the

11:16:49 park.

11:16:50 Pay 25 cents.

11:16:51 You are for any hours you wanted.

11:16:54 With lifeguard and so forth.

11:16:55 And I know things have changed.

11:16:57 I know things have gone up.

11:16:59 I know that computer costs and employment and

11:17:01 everything else is much higher.

11:17:03 What I am getting at is we went from $15 for city

11:17:06 residents to $150 for non-city residents.

11:17:12 And I would imagine that the lost opportunities on

11:17:20 volume, yes, I believe the department, if you look at

11:17:24 it strictly on finance, it has become much more bottom

11:17:29 line profitable as you were now as you were two months

11:17:33 ago, three month ago, because some of these are paying

11:17:37 the high fees of 150.

11:17:40 But the question is how many losses did you have that

11:17:44 you would have had, and maybe the balance is zero.

11:17:47 In other words, did we make these fees up to




11:17:50 accommodate a budget figure?

11:17:52 Or because of water issues.

11:17:56 We sell water.

11:17:57 The county uses our water plant.

11:17:59 But they are charged .25 of 1 percent to buy the City

11:18:05 of Tampa's water.

11:18:06 So that's very insignificant.

11:18:08 And although they live in the county, and -- and I

11:18:12 voted for the 150.

11:18:14 So did the rest of us.

11:18:16 What I'm saying is that these fees may be so high that

11:18:21 you are going to have a further devalue of use of the

11:18:25 facility.

11:18:26 And at what point does that facility then become

11:18:29 nonfunctional?

11:18:32 I understand 15, maybe it doubles.

11:18:36 But we went to the 10th factor.

11:18:39 And maybe I voted wrong.

11:18:40 I'm very sincere.

11:18:41 I'm not perfect.

11:18:42 And I'm saying as you look at it, now you step back and

11:18:45 you take a look at it, I take a look and I said, did I




11:18:49 really do the right thing?

11:18:50 And those are things that I'm questioning myself, not

11:18:53 only on this vote, on every vote that I take.

11:18:57 So I'm a little perplexed at the way I voted and the

11:19:03 fees that increased and the amount of people that I cut

11:19:07 out.

11:19:07 You see the young, and the young at heart -- which is a

11:19:10 nice way of saying "old" -- are the ones that really

11:19:15 need these facilities more than anyone else. I can

11:19:18 tell you for two rec people that worked in the city

11:19:23 park at Biscayne, and that's the one I grew up to and

11:19:28 went to every day. Miss Mexico handled the females and

11:19:28 Ross Ferlita handled the boys.

11:19:38 Between those two individuals, they must have had over

11:19:42 a thousand each.

11:19:42 We never had a problem in the park, because if you did,

11:19:45 they sent you home, and you weren't coming back.

11:19:48 And we knew that.

11:19:50 So one handled basketball, tennis.

11:19:53 The other handled baseball and football, which I never

11:19:57 excelled in any one of them.

11:19:58 But it was a great thing to go to the park and spend




11:20:01 six, seven hours.

11:20:05 They didn't baby-sit us.

11:20:06 They taught us how to play games that became -- some

11:20:10 guys came out of there in the Hall of Fame, or soon to

11:20:13 be in the Hall of Fame.

11:20:14 And what I'm saying is that did we go over and above

11:20:20 when we said 15 to 150, and with what were those

11:20:25 projections based on?

11:20:26 And like I said, maybe I voted incorrectly.

11:20:29 >>KAREN PALUS: The fees that were based, the

11:20:34 non-resident fees, the $115 is basically the 15 and 15

11:20:39 was equivalent to what the city resident and the

11:20:41 non-city resident would pay for the recreation part,

11:20:45 essentially our way of capturing the information for

11:20:47 the folks, their households and allowing them to be

11:20:51 open gym come and play, do those kind of things at

11:20:54 those locations throughout the city, and that gives you

11:20:56 access to all of our facilities.

11:20:58 That's not just the one that's right in your

11:20:59 neighborhood.

11:21:01 And $15, actually over 30 facilities, indoor facilities

11:21:06 throughout the City of Tampa.




11:21:08 Right now.

11:21:09 The $100, where that came from, around what other

11:21:16 municipalities were doing, a very simple thing that

11:21:21 actually follows in line with what the city of

11:21:23 Clearwater had done, and they set a fee, that he would

11:21:26 took our overall budget and divided that by the number

11:21:29 of residents that we have in the City of Tampa.

11:21:31 And basically we spend out of the ad valorem taxes $100

11:21:35 per resident under the $340 it was at that time

11:21:41 thousand.

11:21:41 So it was $100.

11:21:43 What we did is bring that even.

11:21:46 Right now ad valorem taxes, folks that don't pay into

11:21:48 that ad valorem tax for us, that $100 became how they

11:21:52 paid in.

11:21:53 So now everybody became even.

11:21:55 And that's how that came to be.

11:21:56 Whether that's too high, too low, what that did was not

11:21:59 require us to have every program at a different rate.

11:22:02 Remember we are all still on the hand-drawn just a few

11:22:07 moments ago and will be electronically, but right now

11:22:10 we are still hand.




11:22:11 So for us to say every program had to have a different

11:22:14 fee, we have got 200 folks out there that are working

11:22:17 with all those individuals, numerous individuals,

11:22:20 signing up for multitudes of programs.

11:22:22 To give them a different fee for everybody, resident,

11:22:25 nonresident, would have been -- would have created a

11:22:28 major, major issue for our operations.

11:22:30 So with the new software, one of the things we have

11:22:33 talked about is how can we set that up differently in

11:22:35 the future?

11:22:36 Maybe our rates are higher for programs, and it's a lot

11:22:39 easier to do it through the software because it would

11:22:42 automatically take that information.

11:22:43 Staff doesn't have to remember it.

11:22:44 It there in the program.

11:22:45 So there may be some things in the future that we'll

11:22:47 look at that may help to capture some of those folks

11:22:50 that Mr. Miranda talked about, because the last thing

11:22:52 we want is to lose customers within our facilities.

11:22:55 We enjoy having them.

11:22:56 They enjoy coming.

11:22:57 And especially we have talked with our folks that they




11:23:03 continue to have a lot of folks that are non-city

11:23:05 residents that come all the way into town to Barksdale

11:23:08 to participate.

11:23:08 So we are looking at other items.

11:23:10 We are looking at other ways to do that.

11:23:11 But simplistically-wise that's how we got there and

11:23:15 that's what made it the most easy for the citizens to

11:23:17 be able to register and not have to pay multitude of

11:23:21 different fees.

11:23:22 The other thing coming into this year, since we knew it

11:23:26 was $115 once that passed is it gave them the first

11:23:29 quarter of the year to pay back.

11:23:30 So it gave everybody, from October all the way up till

11:23:36 January to cover that cost.

11:23:37 And staff monitored that to be able to do that.

11:23:40 So we tried to work with them, and work within their

11:23:43 means to help them still be able to participate in our

11:23:45 programs.

11:23:46 >>MARY MULHERN: I think it's interesting, that Mr.

11:23:53 Miranda made a God point about when he used to go to

11:23:56 the park, and it hasn't changed.

11:23:58 You generally go to your neighborhood park.




11:24:02 And having a pass to go anywhere in the city, it great

11:24:06 for somebody who has a car, and some leisure time and

11:24:11 all that.

11:24:11 So what we heard from people today was that their local

11:24:19 places have become too expensive for them to have take

11:24:21 their kids to.

11:24:22 So I think -- and I also think we did debate this, and

11:24:29 I know you worked a long time on this whole fee

11:24:31 structure, but I remember discussing it, at least for

11:24:34 myself saying, okay, we are going to pass this, but we

11:24:37 have to track it, and we have to make sure that this is

11:24:40 going to work.

11:24:40 And I think that's what all of us are asking for today,

11:24:43 is to see the numbers.

11:24:45 Because anecdotally it seems like parents are losing

11:24:50 places for their kids to go, kids after school are

11:24:54 unable to use all the facilities at the park, so I

11:24:57 think that we need to see the numbers and the revenue,

11:25:00 how the revenue has changed, how the usage has changed,

11:25:05 how many programs have closed, how many participants.

11:25:10 We need to see all of that.

11:25:12 But I also think that what we are hearing is there are




11:25:14 some problems.

11:25:16 So I think that we can individually -- and I am going

11:25:18 to look through these, because I haven't looked at the

11:25:22 fee structures since -- how long has it been?

11:25:26 Just October?

11:25:27 So maybe we have the report for a year, and then we can

11:25:33 make some major corrections if we need to, because

11:25:36 that's a long time in people's lives where they have to

11:25:41 readjust everything they do, especially the daycare,

11:25:43 and a place for their children to go.

11:25:45 So I think in our defense, we all voted for it but we

11:25:51 did have reservations because we didn't know how this

11:25:53 was going to turn out.

11:25:55 I want to address the contractors, because I'm the one

11:26:01 that actually held up your whole contract on the

11:26:05 automating this, because they had so many questions.

11:26:08 And there were more people today, after the policies

11:26:14 changed, than there were when you asked us to change

11:26:17 it.

11:26:18 So I would like to hear an assurance that they are

11:26:22 going to get paid, that they don't have to wait two

11:26:24 months to get paid.




11:26:26 When they are paying up front for the use of the

11:26:28 facility, that they can't get paid.

11:26:30 I mean, that was what these independent contractors --

11:26:35 and I know because I freelance, you know.

11:26:37 Can usually as a freelancer, you get a deposit before

11:26:42 you start the work.

11:26:44 So they are not getting their deposit from the

11:26:50 participants, so they are really out of luck.

11:26:52 And I know at least one person who left, at least three

11:26:56 people have left.

11:26:58 First we just were hearing from some of the sports

11:27:01 instructors.

11:27:02 Today we are hearing from art instructors.

11:27:04 I think we have a real problem and we have to address

11:27:07 that, because these are long-term programs that people

11:27:10 really love.

11:27:13 So what can you do to get them paid?

11:27:16 >>KAREN PALUS: Let me share with you some information

11:27:17 so I can clarify some of the input that you heard this

11:27:20 morning.

11:27:20 In regards to the one that spoke about not being paid,

11:27:25 they had collected all their fees up to December




11:27:27 31st.

11:27:28 January is the first period of time in which they would

11:27:30 be paid for our process.

11:27:33 There are more of our different facilities and they

11:27:34 didn't have a discrepancy. I think actually I am going

11:27:37 to -- staff made a discrepancy like there was four

11:27:41 people, so we had to clarify that.

11:27:43 All their paperwork was submitted last week.

11:27:45 Their checks due to be cut on Thursday.

11:27:47 They'll have their check on Monday, from January.

11:27:49 And we are right now in the middle of February.

11:27:52 So that's how quickly we are processing but there was a

11:27:54 discrepancy within the paperwork that had to be

11:27:57 rectified.

11:27:58 Again, once the software is in place, that won't

11:28:02 happen.

11:28:03 That's again human error.

11:28:05 There were four folks that weren't accounted for.

11:28:07 To make sure that they got properly paid for their four

11:28:10 folks, with the information they turned in, staff went

11:28:14 back and verified and have Schmidted everything for

11:28:17 processing.




11:28:18 That situation is not --

11:28:22 >>MARY MULHERN: The other questions, though, is about

11:28:28 did bureaucratic, changing the name of this class, and

11:28:31 people -- this is what essentially people were afraid

11:28:35 of having to deal with.

11:28:36 >> I can clarify that as well.

11:28:40 If we are going to market the program, there's a couple

11:28:42 of things in this particular art class, one of which is

11:28:47 if worry going to market the program we have to have

11:28:49 the information that was Snaith stated in the program

11:28:51 proposal to make sure it goes into our marketing

11:28:54 information properly, so we are advertising what he's

11:28:57 really doing.

11:28:58 It goes into the software, so when they are looking at

11:29:01 class can find that in there to be able to register and

11:29:03 such.

11:29:04 So the names do need to be the same.

11:29:06 We don't have to renegotiate a contract.

11:29:09 What we do is they have a program proposal anytime they

11:29:11 want to add an additional program to what they are

11:29:13 currently doing, they do that for the new site, and

11:29:17 they fill out the paperwork and submit it.




11:29:20 This gentleman, we had a $35 program on target for what

11:29:25 his program proposed for.

11:29:26 However what was submit to go into the software was an

11:29:30 $80 program.

11:29:31 So, yes, we need to make sure the information was

11:29:33 accurate.

11:29:34 We are fine with him wanting to run an $80 program but

11:29:37 we needed that information in place.

11:29:38 That's where that information was a little different.

11:29:40 >>MARY MULHERN: I want to ask one more thing.

11:29:45 When we get a report on all of the city programming,

11:29:47 and the city usage for fee-based, I would also like a

11:29:55 report on how many contractors, how those numbers have

11:30:02 changed.

11:30:03 >> We have 22 contractors currently since January 1.

11:30:07 They are teaching over 16-plus facility.

11:30:11 Several of them at four or five facilities.

11:30:13 Some of them are expanding.

11:30:15 We know the gentleman spoke about USDA and we have two

11:30:20 new tennis instructors that came on board already.

11:30:23 So we are doing really well with our contractors that

11:30:26 have come on board thus far.




11:30:27 We did have a situation, but again once the software is

11:30:32 in place --

11:30:34 >>MARY MULHERN: 22 total contractors?

11:30:36 >> 22 total contractors signed up on January 1.

11:30:39 >> How many did you have before that?

11:30:42 >>KAREN PALUS: As far as the ones we had before that?

11:30:45 I have to go back and look.

11:30:47 The numbers weren't nearly --

11:30:49 >> You have more now than you did before?

11:30:51 >>KAREN PALUS: Yes.

11:30:52 A lot of new folks.

11:30:53 A lot of new folks.

11:30:54 >> I would like to see that.

11:30:55 >>KAREN PALUS: Okay.

11:30:56 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: (off microphone).

11:31:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Turf your mike on.

11:31:05 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: It been brought to my attention

11:31:07 that the people who teach tennis had a one-page

11:31:09 contract, and now they have a ten-page contract.

11:31:12 I did not read the contract, but I was told that

11:31:15 there's a clause in there that if something happens

11:31:18 while whoever the contractor is, if there's an injury,




11:31:22 their liability is going to be on them.

11:31:24 >> Yes, if it's happening during their teaching

11:31:27 program.

11:31:27 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: If a kid trips and falls and

11:31:33 breaks a leg, it's the instructor's fault?

11:31:36 >> If a kid trips and break his leg during the program?

11:31:39 >> Yes.

11:31:40 >> It's not the instructor's fault but that's for the

11:31:43 lawyers to work out.

11:31:45 But it one of the things that inherent risk, they sign

11:31:50 a waiver and everything in regards to participating in

11:31:52 recreational programs.

11:31:53 But I think I will let Chip speak to the issues on the

11:32:00 liability issues that we have in the contract.

11:32:01 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: This is a contract, and this is

11:32:06 new to Tampa.

11:32:07 Why this is new the Tampa I can't really tell you that,

11:32:10 but it is.

11:32:12 These contracts, there has been an issue for some time

11:32:17 about making sure that the folks that are independent

11:32:20 contractors doing work on city facilities are in fact

11:32:24 independent contractors.




11:32:26 And as a businessman you probably know from a tax

11:32:31 standpoint, IRS standpoint, maintaining that is real

11:32:35 important.

11:32:35 That was what started from our standpoint, noticed to

11:32:38 get a very structured contract.

11:32:40 One of the issues that was not addressed previously was

11:32:44 insurance by independent contractors and liability for

11:32:48 activity on city properties.

11:32:50 That's a lot of what you have heard about today, risk

11:32:52 management looked at it, they made a recommendation as

11:32:54 to the apt amount of insurance required, that's in the

11:32:58 contract, and it does have liability language, and it

11:33:04 does indicate that if a contractor is on city property

11:33:08 conducting an activity that they have insurance that

11:33:10 covers that liability, and frankly we'll both get sued,

11:33:15 and the courts will work out whether it was a city

11:33:19 property problem or a instruction problem.

11:33:23 And it is a fairly general liability provision, but we

11:33:28 think it's appropriate in that context.

11:33:30 And if it was a private company, we would be dealing

11:33:33 with the same situation.

11:33:36 So it is new.




11:33:37 It is different.

11:33:38 It is changed definitely.

11:33:39 But we think it prudent and appropriate.

11:33:41 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: So legal has approved that

11:33:44 contract, correct?

11:33:46 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Yes, and actually City Council has

11:33:48 as well.

11:33:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Miranda?

11:33:52 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I'm not done yet.

11:33:54 One other thing, Mrs. Palus.

11:33:56 Last Sunday there was an article in the "St. Pete

11:33:58 Times," very critical about your department.

11:34:03 And that we have dismissed a lot of employees and hired

11:34:07 a lot of new employees.

11:34:10 So most of these employees that you have hired had, did

11:34:13 they come from the ranks that were dismissed?

11:34:15 Or did they have an opportunity to reapply?

11:34:20 >>KAREN PALUS: I'm not sure.

11:34:22 I think the two items are getting convoluted.

11:34:26 Actually the positions we have placed in parts of our

11:34:28 optimization and restructuring as parts of our

11:34:31 facilities with many of those folks are from our




11:34:34 staffing.

11:34:35 The majority of them are.

11:34:37 They are from our folks.

11:34:39 So as far as dismissals, the majority of anything

11:34:42 that's occurred with us in reductions other than the

11:34:44 first year, we have 26 folks that were affected, back

11:34:49 in those when we had to do those initial reductions,

11:34:52 eleven of them actually left our system.

11:34:54 Since then, we have not had to release anybody as far

11:34:58 as an individual in a position.

11:35:00 We have eliminated things through vacancies, or

11:35:03 reclassifications.

11:35:04 And I did send you a memo clarifying that article in

11:35:06 regards to what was written over the weekend.

11:35:09 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Okay, thank you.

11:35:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Just a couple of point here.

11:35:19 If these tennis professionals before all this have to

11:35:23 have liability insurance for the use of the court?

11:35:28 >>KAREN PALUS: Do they have to have that?

11:35:29 As far as the agreement, no.

11:35:30 What we did request from them was insurance to make

11:35:33 sure they had something documented from them.




11:35:36 >> So they did have insurance.

11:35:38 >> Yes.

11:35:39 >> So nothing has changed really.

11:35:40 >> Correct.

11:35:41 >> The next point is, I consider them, I guess, the

11:35:45 rest of us do, self-employed subcontractors.

11:35:48 >> Right.

11:35:49 >> Just today we went over a bid, no bid, let's get the

11:35:52 lowest bid possible.

11:35:53 To your knowledge, do you or anyone in your department

11:35:59 set the rate that these individuals have to charge?

11:36:02 >>KAREN PALUS: No, sir.

11:36:05 >> In other words, if I want to charge $10 an hour, $20

11:36:09 an hour, $30 an hour, $40 an hour, and somebody wants

11:36:12 to pay it, then you can do that?

11:36:15 >> Correct.

11:36:17 That's what makes them an independent contractor along

11:36:19 with several other things.

11:36:20 >> If I was to tell you that I know different would

11:36:26 that shake you up a little bit?

11:36:27 >> I would be happy to talk with you about that because

11:36:30 that is not the way this program is structured, nor is




11:36:32 it how it operates.

11:36:34 I will tell you, what will happen with some of those

11:36:36 folks is if they do price themselves out of the market,

11:36:38 I know there's been dialogue, but that's up to them, if

11:36:42 they do that.

11:36:42 >> What I'm saying is I want to make sure that

11:36:45 everybody is entitled to have the opportunity to play.

11:36:49 What I'm trying to get, is there any way in 30 days or

11:36:52 so you can tell us how many participated prior to

11:36:55 October 1st, how many are participating now?

11:36:58 >>KAREN PALUS: No, sir, I can't.

11:37:00 We have no way to tell that that.

11:37:02 We have no way to tell that.

11:37:03 >> But here is what it is.

11:37:07 And you have got to buy a rec card.

11:37:09 Then you have individual residential, 15 residential

11:37:12 and family 50, nonresidential individuals in the

11:37:17 county, 115.

11:37:19 Non-residential family 400.

11:37:22 Single-day pass, one single is $10.

11:37:25 So a family of three, let me advise you, don't buy the

11:37:28 family.




11:37:29 Pay the 115.

11:37:31 You're better off.

11:37:32 But what I'm saying is that when we jump from inside

11:37:36 the city to outside the city, it skyrockets.

11:37:42 I understand that.

11:37:44 But I would make an assumption is based on the facts of

11:37:48 the fees, that you are having less participants in

11:37:52 these programs, and you and your fellow employees have

11:37:59 tried to maintain a criteria of let's get things done,

11:38:02 and let's do it right, that you have had before.

11:38:06 It's the same thing.

11:38:08 If you are charging -- you want to solve the water

11:38:13 problem, make it $25 a gallon.

11:38:15 Nobody drinks water.

11:38:16 But what we are doing here is basically the same thing.

11:38:22 And I voted for it.

11:38:23 That's what I'm saying to myself.

11:38:28 I hope that these independent contractors can set their

11:38:32 fee.

11:38:33 My question to myself is, was the system that broken

11:38:36 that we had to change it?

11:38:39 Was it working or not working?




11:38:40 What were the faults?

11:38:43 My mind is telling me someone had to think there was

11:38:47 fraud going on.

11:38:48 That's why we went to a computer system.

11:38:51 I don't know.

11:38:51 I can remember that you buy a card when I was in the

11:38:59 boys club, and my number was 104.

11:39:01 That's the number I needed to get in.

11:39:03 I don't know if you can put some kind of mechanisms in

11:39:05 the gate where you have a sliding card and that's how

11:39:08 you get in.

11:39:08 I don't know.

11:39:09 I'm not in recreation.

11:39:10 But there's too much voluminous points for me to figure

11:39:25 out how to fix things.

11:39:26 >>KAREN PALUS: Let me say, if you are speaking in

11:39:29 regards to specifically the instructor contract, I

11:39:30 think Mr. Fletcher addressed several of the items and

11:39:33 issues that were in place.

11:39:35 The liability issue, risk management, you have the

11:39:38 legal issues, IRS issues, and such as far as an

11:39:41 independent contractor.




11:39:42 I will tell you -- and I know Mr. Fletcher shared with

11:39:45 you that this is new to Tampa.

11:39:52 I have been in the parks and recreation field for over

11:39:55 20 years.

11:39:55 I was the front first-line supervisor.

11:39:58 That's how long when you look at other municipalities

11:40:00 this type of structure has been in place.

11:40:02 We have been able to not operate that way before.

11:40:05 However, based on all the things we are hearing, as far

11:40:07 as what I hear from my peers and what's happening out

11:40:10 in our industry, cities and municipalities were being

11:40:14 fined for not properly doing the IRS guidelines, for

11:40:20 not having all of their independent contractor

11:40:22 information in place.

11:40:23 If you will speak with some students, they are going

11:40:26 around to other municipalities thinking there's a

11:40:28 different situation where they are finding they are

11:40:30 running into the same scenario at those locates.

11:40:33 In regards to the instructor agreement, you mentioned

11:40:35 fraud.

11:40:36 No, that is not what this is about.

11:40:37 This is about putting the right parameters, the right




11:40:40 information that's appropriate for the type of

11:40:43 relationship that we have individuals that are truly

11:40:46 self-employed conducting business on city property.

11:40:49 >> All right.

11:40:50 So if I hear right, what I am hearing is if some

11:40:56 subcontractor is at 30% they pay, so a subcontractor

11:41:00 turns in $9,000, that means their gross was $30,000,

11:41:06 correct?

11:41:07 So then at the end of the year I would imagine that

11:41:10 somebody gives them, what is it, W-9 or whatever it is,

11:41:15 99 or whatever the form is, that you have submitted

11:41:18 this amount to the city, and it up to the IRS to follow

11:41:22 up with what they have earned and what they have paid.

11:41:26 And that expense comes right off the top of their

11:41:30 gross.

11:41:30 That was a cost of doing business.

11:41:31 >> Yes.

11:41:41 I'm not confident with what the forms describe.

11:41:44 But that's correct.

11:41:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.

11:41:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Karen, I know none of this is easy,

11:41:55 and change isn't easy, but that's why I was willing to




11:41:58 vote on the contract which I think came through at the

11:42:00 end of last year, as well as the new fees.

11:42:05 But that doesn't mean just because when voted on it

11:42:07 that we can't tweak it.

11:42:09 And I think that's where we are right now.

11:42:11 I think we are not trying to tell to you throw out the

11:42:14 baby with the bath water.

11:42:15 You gave us a 20-page with new fees, and we took a leap

11:42:23 of faith and said we'll run with it.

11:42:24 But now we are running into some issues.

11:42:26 You weren't in the room, but you were watching on

11:42:28 television, and you heard, you know, five or ten folks

11:42:32 get up and speak.

11:42:34 Not only on the independent contractor issue but also

11:42:37 talking about some of these families that are just

11:42:40 suffering and hurting.

11:42:42 And I think we need to do a better job on those issues.

11:42:45 But let me ask you this question.

11:42:47 How many independent contractors have we lost over the

11:42:50 last couple of months?

11:42:52 >>KAREN PALUS: I only know of two at this point in

11:42:55 time.




11:42:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, I'm hearing some other things

11:43:00 from e-mails.

11:43:01 And I'll be glad to share them with you later if I

11:43:03 haven't already.

11:43:06 I think some of your contractors have signed on under

11:43:09 duress, okay, under pressure.

11:43:11 And I'll read some quotes.

11:43:14 Quote: I certainly feel like I had no voice.

11:43:17 This was rammed down my throat, as a take it or leave

11:43:19 it proposition.

11:43:20 We provided a service to public parks and rec for years

11:43:23 that requires no retirement and medical benefits from

11:43:26 the city.

11:43:27 Another person: I had to purchase a $115 park pass to

11:43:31 get on the premises to be able to teach and coach and

11:43:33 pay for a contract instructor badge I have yet to

11:43:38 receive.

11:43:38 Another person: Honestly, I felt pressured from the

11:43:41 start to sign and agree to things that I don't even

11:43:43 understand.

11:43:43 I'm wondering if this contract needs to be put under

11:43:46 public scrutiny.




11:43:48 Another person.

11:43:49 It was kind of like shoving stuff down my throat.

11:43:52 We felt like we didn't have any voice.

11:43:55 Et cetera.

11:43:58 Another group of comments about how they loved what

11:44:02 they are doing.

11:44:02 And I think we heard this morning, this person said I

11:44:05 love teaching, it's a big joy in my life and I don't

11:44:08 want to lose it so I have been playing along.

11:44:10 The contract concerned me, too, but I am no longer

11:44:13 pursuing instructing.

11:44:14 So we obviously lost that person.

11:44:16 This person says: I ran a program with 13 kids and I'm

11:44:20 at a break-even right now.

11:44:23 I am break-even after I meet the city's new

11:44:26 requirements.

11:44:30 Are we just talking about tennis and art basically?

11:44:33 What are we talking about?

11:44:34 >>KAREN PALUS: We have a multitude -- we have fitness.

11:44:38 We have art.

11:44:39 We have youth.

11:44:40 We have all kinds of folks out there in all of our




11:44:42 facility.

11:44:43 >> That's the 30 instructors you are talking about?

11:44:46 >> Uh-huh.

11:44:47 >> Now this goes to the tweaking, okay?

11:44:52 And I do understand a little bit about indemnification

11:44:55 and hold harmless agreements.

11:44:57 The correspondence I have received had some problems

11:44:59 with the specific language that we are, quote, forcing

11:45:03 down these people's throats.

11:45:05 Okay.

11:45:05 And one of it is that we are asking them to indemnify

11:45:08 the city, okay.

11:45:11 Indemnify the city.

11:45:12 Now let me give you a scenario.

11:45:13 Because I have been out there with coach Shull on the

11:45:17 tennis court.

11:45:17 He was my teacher till my shoulder went out.

11:45:21 But, anyway, so you go out on the city court, okay,

11:45:26 over at Himes Avenue, and you are playing tennis.

11:45:29 Now, if he comes over and he starts whacking me on the

11:45:32 head or something like that because he didn't like the

11:45:35 way I hit the ball, then, you know, yeah, that's why we




11:45:39 are requiring him to carry a million dollars of

11:45:41 liability policy and that sort of thing, and the city

11:45:44 should be covered under that million dollars policy.

11:45:47 But the flip side is, if somebody is on that tennis

11:45:49 court, okay, and all of our tennis courts are not in

11:45:52 the greatest shape because worry short of money, and,

11:45:55 for example, they fall apart, there's some cracks in

11:45:58 the court, if they trip over the crack in the court

11:46:02 that's on the city court, okay, why should he have to

11:46:06 indemnify the city just because he happened to be

11:46:09 giving lessons that day?

11:46:10 That is the type of thing that doesn't make sense to

11:46:13 me.

11:46:14 Now, I don't want to get into this we are going to

11:46:17 leave it up to the judge and that sort of thing.

11:46:19 But we are not leaving it up to the judge.

11:46:21 We are getting up in front of that train in advance and

11:46:24 saying these contractors are going to be responsible

11:46:28 and they are going to indemnify the city.

11:46:31 That's what that contract language says.

11:46:32 And to me that's not fair.

11:46:34 And, yes, we can force them to do that.




11:46:37 Okay.

11:46:38 We can force them to have do that because we are the

11:46:40 big City of Tampa.

11:46:42 Okay.

11:46:42 And these are just independent contractors who are

11:46:44 trying to teach tennis or art or what have you.

11:46:47 But I don't think we should be doing that.

11:46:48 And I think the mere fact that this council signed on

11:46:51 to a brand new 10 or 20-page contract in December,

11:46:56 okay, at the end of this discussion, I am going to make

11:46:58 a motion that we bring that resolution back and revisit

11:47:01 that contract.

11:47:01 Because I think there's certain paragraphs including

11:47:04 the indemnification, the hold harmless between the

11:47:07 generally accepted accounting principals, the GATT

11:47:11 rules, that apparently a lot of them don't even

11:47:13 understand.

11:47:13 You are saying you just reply with all GATT rules.

11:47:17 I don't even understand that.

11:47:18 Okay.

11:47:19 So it's kind of like I understand we need a new

11:47:22 contract.




11:47:22 I understand that we have to do things differently.

11:47:24 Change is not easy for us or them.

11:47:27 But let's get back, take a step back and tweak it up a

11:47:31 little bit and make it a little more palatable for

11:47:34 everybody.

11:47:34 And the notion that you guys are trying or threatening

11:47:37 to trespass Mr. Shull because he won't sign the

11:47:40 contract while it's still under discussion of this

11:47:43 council I find absolutely disgusting.

11:47:46 Absolutely disgusting.

11:47:47 And I read it in the paper and I couldn't believe it.

11:47:49 And then I got a call from coach Shull to my office

11:47:53 saying it was true.

11:47:54 And I say, what is going on with the city?

11:47:57 That we are going to trespass our tennis instructors

11:48:00 because he wants to keep going out there and give

11:48:03 tennis lessons, a lot of them to our children, okay, to

11:48:07 Robinson high school, that sort of thing.

11:48:11 I don't get it.

11:48:12 And I'm really, really disappointed.

11:48:15 I'm disappointed.

11:48:16 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: At the appropriate time, Madam




11:48:21 Chairman.

11:48:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm fine with it today but I'm going

11:48:27 to make a motion to bring that contract back and to

11:48:29 revisit some of the language of the contract for future

11:48:33 reference.

11:48:33 We might have already signed on with some of these

11:48:36 contractors to do it, and maybe we can't undo those

11:48:39 contract.

11:48:40 But for future reference, we have a contract that we

11:48:42 agree to by resolution, okay.

11:48:45 And I would like us -- and I am going to make a motion

11:48:47 to revisit that.

11:48:48 At that point in time we can have the detailed

11:48:50 discussion that you want.

11:48:52 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: What you described is not what we

11:48:54 are asking people to sign.

11:48:55 And, number two, there needs to be some professional

11:48:58 judgment as to whether or not the facility is safe.

11:49:01 And that is a joint decision.

11:49:02 That's both the manager of the facility and the folks

11:49:05 that are bringing people out there.

11:49:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's fine.




11:49:10 But at the end of the day somebody brought that

11:49:12 contract to this council to agree.

11:49:14 >> That's correct.

11:49:15 >> And my motion is going to bring it back so we can

11:49:17 read it a little closer, because we took a leap of

11:49:20 faith and it was all Kosher.

11:49:23 I think we need a bigger discussion on some of the

11:49:25 specific parks, and I think that's our prerogative from

11:49:28 a policy perspective.

11:49:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.

11:49:31 When you make that motion, Mr. Dingfelder, I will

11:49:33 second it.

11:49:33 And I looked at our calendar.

11:49:35 On March 4th, we just got rid of our afternoon

11:49:38 meeting.

11:49:38 So we could meet in the afternoon which would give us a

11:49:42 lot of time and a time certain to revisit this.

11:49:45 And I would like to see a copy of the two-page

11:49:48 St. Petersburg contract, because perhaps -- I think

11:49:52 brevity is the soul of wit, and I think we might see

11:49:56 some value in simplifying what we have everybody

11:50:00 discussing.




11:50:00 >> Could I make a clarification real quick for council

11:50:05 members?

11:50:06 What everybody keeps relating to is the 20-page

11:50:09 contract is not a 20-page contract.

11:50:11 It is an instructor manual that talks about our

11:50:13 mission, our vision, and who we are, what our benefits

11:50:16 are to the community, what we are expecting from them,

11:50:19 what they can expect from us, is there a danger out

11:50:22 there reporting that there is a danger on the court

11:50:26 which is how Mr. Shull called us about a strap that was

11:50:31 missing.

11:50:32 We appreciated that.

11:50:32 We had a conversation at that time with him.

11:50:34 But that's what this is about.

11:50:35 This is more about communicating with the folks that

11:50:37 are providing services to the community on our

11:50:40 facility, so that we have a better, more tight

11:50:44 relationship with them to communicate who we are, and

11:50:46 what our expectations are, and what they can expect

11:50:48 from us.

11:50:49 And that's what this is about.

11:50:50 The contract itself, this describes what they are going




11:50:55 to teach.

11:50:55 That's all.

11:50:56 This is putting the information down and sharing that,

11:50:58 so we can properly market for them.

11:51:00 And put that into the software and have that available

11:51:03 to the public.

11:51:04 The contract that has emergency information.

11:51:06 It's standard.

11:51:07 I'll go back and make sure you all have a full copy of

11:51:10 all of that information again.

11:51:11 But it very simple.

11:51:13 It's very -- we tried to make this as simple as

11:51:15 possible for folks complying with laws and regulations

11:51:19 in which we are responsible for upholding.

11:51:21 That's all.

11:51:21 >>MARY MULHERN: If you could send all three of those

11:51:25 documents to us so that we can read them, and -- did

11:51:29 you say that was guidelines?

11:51:31 >>KAREN PALUS: Yes.

11:51:34 They are called a recreation --

11:51:35 >>MARY MULHERN: Is there a signature on that?

11:51:38 >>KAREN PALUS: No.




11:51:39 It's on the application.

11:51:40 >>MARY MULHERN: But is it referenced?

11:51:42 >>KAREN PALUS: Yes, because it has parks security.

11:51:45 >>MARY MULHERN: They are sign an agreement.

11:51:47 So they consider that a contract.

11:51:48 >>KAREN PALUS: Yes.

11:51:49 This is information so they know --

11:51:52 >>MARY MULHERN: But if they are signing it, then it

11:51:54 becomes a contract.

11:51:55 >>MARY MULHERN: Now I forgot way was going to bring up

11:52:07 after all of that.

11:52:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do you want me to make a motion and

11:52:13 get that out of the way?

11:52:14 >> It was really important.

11:52:15 Oh, I know what it was.

11:52:17 I haven't been getting any e-mails.

11:52:19 And part of my problem with this whole process is I was

11:52:23 only hearing from a couple people.

11:52:24 So I don't know what's going on.

11:52:26 If other council people are getting e-mails from

11:52:29 citizens, please share them with all of us, because I

11:52:34 heard a lot that it's the first time I ever heard it.




11:52:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: My motion with Ms. Saul-Sena's help

11:52:44 would be to bring this back for -- I'll call it a

11:52:49 special staff report on March 4th at 1:30.

11:52:53 >>GWEN MILLER: What are you bringing back?

11:52:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Bring this specific discussion

11:52:57 about the contract.

11:52:58 >>GWEN MILLER: The contract, okay.

11:52:59 >>THE CLERK: Madam Chair, we do have four public

11:53:02 hearings the afternoon of the 4th.

11:53:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Including the three that we

11:53:10 postponed?

11:53:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The three you postponed were from

11:53:13 April.

11:53:15 You have three staff reports presently set for March

11:53:18 4th in the morning and you have Judy Lisi making a

11:53:21 presentation for ten minutes at 10:30.

11:53:23 Other than those four you have no other --

11:53:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 10:30 staff reports then.

11:53:28 On March 4th.

11:53:29 And specifically related to the contract.

11:53:33 Ms. Palus will get us all copies of all of the contract

11:53:35 and anything that's new in the interim.




11:53:41 And anything else that I'm missing?

11:53:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: One other thing, Madam Chairman.

11:53:45 Several people mentioned the fact that they turn in

11:53:48 their paperwork and don't get paid for at least sixty

11:53:51 days where the old system, perhaps you can clarify

11:53:54 that.

11:53:55 >>KAREN PALUS: I clarified that earlier.

11:53:58 We had one that we did have a discrepancy with their

11:54:01 information from what was the number of participants

11:54:04 versus what they had turned in.

11:54:06 They clarified that.

11:54:08 They got that full mitt submittal.

11:54:11 The usual turnaround, we tell them to expect it at six

11:54:14 weeks but it's running around two to three.

11:54:17 So once we go through the process.

11:54:19 So we are moving through the city process as quickly as

11:54:22 we can for folks on that.

11:54:23 But again once the software is in place, we wouldn't

11:54:25 have that discrepancy because they capture that

11:54:29 information already.

11:54:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That resolution was 2009, number

11:54:35 946, for those that are interested.




11:54:38 There's one point.

11:54:40 I was in the back getting a little water when I heard

11:54:42 Mr. Dingfelder discuss about a contract and so forth.

11:54:45 And I went back.

11:54:49 And is Mr. Maurice here?

11:54:52 Would you come up here?

11:54:53 I would like to ask you a couple little questions.

11:54:55 >> With the legal department.

11:55:03 >> You made a reference here in this executive order,

11:55:09 the fourth whereas.

11:55:11 Whereas under chapter 16 of the City of Tampa code, the

11:55:14 director of Parks and Recreation Department is the

11:55:18 mayor's designee.

11:55:22 I have no problem with the language.

11:55:24 I have a problem with the interpretation of the charter

11:55:27 where the mayor is the one that's really to sign

11:55:30 contracts.

11:55:31 So it is not with Ms. Palus.

11:55:34 It with any -- in other words, if this is what you

11:55:36 wrote, and this is what you are telling this council,

11:55:41 and then future mayors is what I am most concerned

11:55:44 about, not present.




11:55:46 Then you are going to have mayors giving away their

11:55:48 authority to sign, contracts to designees.

11:55:53 Is that what I am seeing?

11:55:54 >> That is what you are seeing and that was also what

11:55:57 was done before.

11:55:58 I didn't create this on my own.

11:56:00 This was done before I believe by the prior city

11:56:05 attorney, that the mayor was authorized to execute an

11:56:08 executive order delegating her authority.

11:56:12 >> I think we are getting in foreign territory here,

11:56:15 but 1 and 1-A.

11:56:19 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: If I may jump in.

11:56:23 This is just a charter usual you, the mayor authorized

11:56:26 to designate individuals to sign contracts.

11:56:30 And if I am hearing your concern, the concern is we

11:56:34 don't want -- it should be retained with the mayor.

11:56:38 This had been the previous practice.

11:56:39 We continued it in this instance.

11:56:46 I don't see a major charter problem with it but I do

11:56:49 understand your concern about diluting the mayor's

11:56:51 control on those activities.

11:56:53 That certainly is an institutional control issue.




11:56:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: In other words we are going to

11:57:00 something really centralized to something decentralized

11:57:03 and you are going to have departments possibly making

11:57:05 contracts that could or could not be to the advantage

11:57:09 of the city.

11:57:09 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: If I could just make one other

11:57:13 point.

11:57:13 The authorization is only to sign that exact contract

11:57:16 with those exact terms that were previously approved,

11:57:19 so there's not ability to change the business deal.

11:57:28 In that context we were more comfortable that was an

11:57:31 appropriate delegation.

11:57:32 >>MARY MULHERN: Are there other department heads that

11:57:36 have contracts that we have designated to do this?

11:57:53 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Again there's this kind of thing

11:57:55 where there's a form contract I think in the housing

11:57:57 context.

11:57:58 There are some other things where we have cash going

11:58:01 out on a grant basis with a form contract.

11:58:04 For instance, the neighborhood stabilization, I think,

11:58:07 has some elements that are set up that way.

11:58:09 >> I think maybe this is something that should be




11:58:11 revised then, taken out, if we are going to revisit

11:58:14 this, because Ms. Palus is telling us there are only 22

11:58:20 contractors.

11:58:20 We have hundreds of consent items on our agenda that we

11:58:23 approve and the mayor signs.

11:58:25 I don't see this as a huge burden or a huge need for

11:58:30 the mayor not to sign off on these.

11:58:32 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: If I may, we are mixing two things

11:58:37 here.

11:58:38 What councilman Miranda indicated was the issue of the

11:58:40 mayor delegating to somebody else in the administration

11:58:42 to sign.

11:58:43 And that's really an internal control issue, from a

11:58:47 financial standpoint, and a delegation issue, and it's

11:58:51 in my view a valid concern.

11:58:54 What you are talking about is the concept where council

11:58:59 approves a standard contract, and then it is used over

11:59:02 and over and over again, and that is extremely common.

11:59:04 That is the way we work convention center contracts, it

11:59:08 is the way we work a variety of other contracts.

11:59:10 So those are two issues.

11:59:12 >>MARY MULHERN: It seems like everything comes in




11:59:14 front of us.

11:59:15 I don't know, that we sign and the mayor signs.

11:59:19 You would know.

11:59:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me address something that's

11:59:22 not, the convention center.

11:59:26 What happened here when conventions are bid out they

11:59:29 are bid out at a certain price throughout the country.

11:59:32 Let's say they had a convention billed out within 18

11:59:35 months, and Las Vegas was bidding on the same contract.

11:59:38 All of a sudden, the conventioneers come and they tell

11:59:43 whoever the head of the convention center was at that

11:59:45 time, we can get it for two cents less a square foot.

11:59:49 Well, by the time it went all the way around the world

11:59:53 to get here, to get approved and signed by the mayor,

11:59:56 that convention was already held in Las Vegas.

12:00:01 So we determined at that time, because I was here, to

12:00:04 give that individual the right to make that decision,

12:00:09 to have people in the center, because that creates

12:00:13 sales of other things, sales of hotel rooms, sales of

12:00:16 items that they bring, all kinds of taxes coming in for

12:00:20 both the city and the county.

12:00:21 Not to mention the state.




12:00:23 So that was a determination that was made by both sides

12:00:27 of the government to let that -- we were losing a lot

12:00:30 of money.

12:00:32 We are not losing.

12:00:34 When we changed that system, we started breaking even

12:00:37 and making a little.

12:00:39 And that's when the convention center was done a lot

12:00:44 different because there was a time factor involved that

12:00:46 we were bidding against convention centers throughout

12:00:49 the country.

12:00:49 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: If I may.

12:00:52 Sometimes the convention center contract will come back

12:00:57 to you because somebody wants to tweak the contract and

12:00:59 they were only allowed to sign the contract that was

12:01:01 preapproved.

12:01:02 When they do something a little different it has to

12:01:04 come back to you all.

12:01:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Council members, it's 12:00.

12:01:07 We need to vote on the motion to continue this or we

12:01:09 need to move on.

12:01:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The motion again is to March 4th

12:01:19 under staff reports to bring the contract resolution




12:01:23 that councilman Miranda cited.

12:01:26 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of that motion say Aye.

12:01:29 Opposed, Nay.

12:01:30 Now it's 12.

12:01:32 But 41 we need to do because we had someone paying by

12:01:35 the hour to speak of and the meeting has been going on

12:01:38 and on so we need a motion to hear 41 before we go to

12:01:42 lunch.

12:01:42 >>MARTIN SHELBY: How long will 41 take, Ms. Grimes?

12:01:47 >>GWEN MILLER: It will be done quickly.

12:01:48 We have a motion to continue.

12:01:49 All in favor of that motion say Aye.

12:01:52 Opposed?

12:01:52 Okay, Mrs. Wise.

12:01:54 >>BONNIE WISE: Director of revenue and finance.

12:01:56 With me today I have John Desanto, a partner with Ernst

12:02:01 & Young, to review the comprehensive annual financial

12:02:03 report which was in your agenda packages.

12:02:05 I know that Lee Huffstutler contacted each of you to

12:02:09 see if you had certain questions.

12:02:13 This is coming about a month earlier than last year so

12:02:16 I am real pleased to hear that.




12:02:18 Although we still have ram for further improvement on

12:02:20 some of our findings, our findings are fewer than prior

12:02:24 year.

12:02:25 I would like to thank Lee Huffstutler and his staff for

12:02:28 getting this to you, and for working on this clean

12:02:31 opinion.

12:02:31 Especially Bill Ladd who many of you hey know announced

12:02:36 his retirement and he will be leaving the city, so of

12:02:38 course he is instrumental in getting the CAFR done each

12:02:41 year.

12:02:41 If you adopt this CAFR then we can print minimal copies

12:02:47 of the CAFR.

12:02:48 However, it will be on line on the city Web site and

12:02:52 also available electronically, and of course we can get

12:02:54 you hard copies if you are so interested. So Mr.

12:02:57 Desanto is going to go through very quickly with you

12:02:59 the required communications that he has.

12:03:03 He's going to talk about the various findings, and

12:03:05 certain trends that we are seeing.

12:03:07 Many of these trends we will be discussing in the

12:03:10 mayor's meeting that we have on Monday that you all

12:03:12 referenced earlier.




12:03:13 Mr. Desanto is going to speak specifically to the

12:03:16 general fund.

12:03:17 As you know, we generally talk about the general fund

12:03:19 of utility tax fund when we combine it.

12:03:22 More to come on Monday.

12:03:24 With that I will turn it over to Mr. Desanto.

12:03:26 >> Thank you.

12:03:29 Good afternoon Madam Chair and members of City Council.

12:03:31 I do appreciate the opportunity to present the results

12:03:34 of the 2009 audit to you.

12:03:36 And in the interest of time, I know we are running

12:03:38 behind so I will try to keep it as brief as we can.

12:03:41 In addition to receiving the comprehensive annual

12:03:43 financial report, you should have received the document

12:03:46 that's entitled 2009 financial statement audit results

12:03:50 report to the City Council, and it from that document

12:03:53 that I am primarily going to be talking from.

12:03:56 Wail do first is ask that you turn to page six of that

12:04:04 document that summarizes the current audit results and

12:04:07 findings.

12:04:07 The first item is the summary of audit differences.

12:04:10 Those are the adjustments that we identify during the




12:04:14 audit.

12:04:14 Of those there was one adjustment that was recorded and

12:04:18 three that were determined by management to be

12:04:20 immaterial to your financial statements, and therefore

12:04:22 not recorded.

12:04:23 They are on page 20 of this document.

12:04:27 And I will cover them later if you would like me to.

12:04:33 As far as findings of -- internal controls over

12:04:38 financial reporting.

12:04:39 We did report two material weaknesses and internal

12:04:42 controls.

12:04:42 Those were both reported in the prior fiscal year and

12:04:45 those are carried forward to this year.

12:04:47 If you recall, they primarily were around information

12:04:52 system, lacking the capability to present and

12:04:55 accumulate all your financial data and the area of

12:04:58 capital asset accounting.

12:05:00 It was transferring items from construction and process

12:05:02 to an asset to start depreciating those items.

12:05:06 Those issues continue to occur and we believe that they

12:05:08 are primarily a result of system limitations.

12:05:11 As far as findings considered to be significant




12:05:15 deficiency and material weaknesses related to

12:05:18 compliance within the federal and state grant programs,

12:05:20 we did point out in our single audit report of your

12:05:23 state and federal grant programs only one finding, and

12:05:26 that was in the homeland security grant program and

12:05:33 relates that were not filed.

12:05:35 That was the only finding, for federal programs and two

12:05:38 state programs.

12:05:38 Association we only have that one finding which I did

12:05:41 consider to be pretty minor.

12:05:42 However, it is something we are required to report.

12:05:46 With respect to the management letter, we did have one

12:05:48 management letter comment in the current year and they

12:05:51 are related to the general function fund payment.

12:05:53 And it was a situation where there were early retirees,

12:05:58 the penalties for early retirement was not factored

12:06:00 into the benefit payment in five of 40 cases I sampled.

12:06:06 Page 7, how do those audit results compare to the prior

12:06:09 year?

12:06:09 I know you are interested are we getting belter or

12:06:11 staying the same, where are we going?

12:06:13 So page 7 I actually showed a comparison of the audit




12:06:16 results to the prior year.

12:06:17 As far as audit differences or audit adjustments, in

12:06:21 2008 we had eight audit differences.

12:06:24 As I pointed out in 2009 we had four.

12:06:26 So I think you see a little bit of improvement there.

12:06:29 As far as findings considered to be significant

12:06:31 deficiencies and material weaknesses, we had two

12:06:35 material weaknesses and one significant deficiency in

12:06:38 2008.

12:06:39 2009 we only had the two material weaknesses that were

12:06:43 repeat findings, the significant deficiency was

12:06:45 actually addressed and therefore not reported in 2009.

12:06:49 As far as single audit or federal and state grant

12:06:52 program awed a it, we had two findings in the prior

12:06:55 year, both of those were addressed, and we only had one

12:06:59 new finding.

12:07:00 As far as the management letter, we had three comments

12:07:02 in the prior year in 2008, and just one comment in the

12:07:06 currents year. So I think overall there was some

12:07:09 improvement that was noted.

12:07:11 Pages 8 and 9 is what Mrs. Wise was referring to.

12:07:16 We just put together a highlight of the general fund,




12:07:19 the total fund balance as a percent of total

12:07:21 expenditures, and also the unreserved undesignated

12:07:25 general fund balance.

12:07:26 It really for your informational purposes.

12:07:28 You see from 2005, trends, fund balances, both total

12:07:34 and unreserved, undesignated increasing.

12:07:38 2010 we know it means balancing the budget you used

12:07:41 some of those reserves that everybody continuing over

12:07:43 the years.

12:07:43 What that did is it really, the 2010 budgeted numbers,

12:07:48 it pushed back about 90 days that you can cover of your

12:07:51 expenditures with, the leftover reserves, if you will,

12:07:55 at the end of 2010 based on your budget.

12:07:57 And the total general fund and unreserved undesignated

12:08:01 put it just under 60 days.

12:08:03 A rule of thumb in the industry is you want to

12:08:04 typically between your unreserved undesignated between

12:08:08 30 and 60 days, right around 58, 57.

12:08:11 So you are still fine even though you are using that.

12:08:13 But the point that I want to make is if that practice

12:08:16 continues, and they have to continue, you are going to

12:08:19 be getting down around that 30-day level, and that is




12:08:22 something obviously as a matter of policy you would

12:08:24 clearly want to manage.

12:08:32 Those are really the significant points.

12:08:33 There are some required things I am required to

12:08:39 communicate to you.

12:08:39 I am only going to highlight a few of them.

12:08:41 If you have the dock number front of you, I will point

12:08:43 out on page 15 the very first item, the adoption of or

12:08:48 change in the accounting principles.

12:08:49 There were two new accounting standards that were

12:08:51 required to be adopted by the city during fiscal '09.

12:08:55 They were both adopted.

12:08:57 Neither of them had any financial impact to the city's

12:08:59 financial statement.

12:09:03 Page 16.

12:09:04 The very last item as far as fraud and illegal act.

12:09:07 I know that's something you are interested in.

12:09:08 We are required to perform a significant number of

12:09:10 procedures to detect if there was a material fraud that

12:09:13 occurred in your organization.

12:09:14 We performed all those procedures and did not identify

12:09:17 any instances of fraud, irregularity, illegal acts or




12:09:22 anything of that nature.

12:09:24 Lastly, on page 17, there were no disagreements with

12:09:28 management during the audit, no difficulties we

12:09:31 encountered in performing the awed: In fact, we do

12:09:35 continue to receive excellent cooperation from

12:09:36 management and in performing our audit.

12:09:39 There were no consultations that management made with

12:09:41 other accountants of which we are aware and Ernst &

12:09:44 Young is independent of the city to perform your audit.

12:09:48 That's really the audit results in a nutshell.

12:09:50 If there's anything else you would like me to cover in

12:09:52 more detail, I would be happy to, or if you have any

12:09:54 questions on the CAFR as well.

12:09:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It was very well presented in the

12:10:03 amounts of cases that you found, and misappropriated of

12:10:11 things that you found and from previous years.

12:10:14 I think there was one case, if I remember, where the

12:10:16 year-ended and the moneys in the prior year, and I

12:10:20 guess that was handled at the closing or something,

12:10:24 they did that.

12:10:25 >>> Yes, that's correct.

12:10:26 That's the cut-off situation.




12:10:28 It happens from time to time.

12:10:29 Management does a really good job of having a good

12:10:32 process to detect those things.

12:10:34 >> It was very well presented.

12:10:38 And easy to understand even from a novice.

12:10:42 >> Great.

12:10:44 That's all I have for you unless you have further

12:10:45 questions or comments on the audit.

12:10:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you for coming.

12:10:49 >> Thank you again for your time.

12:10:51 I appreciate you squeezing me in right before lunch.

12:10:53 >>GWEN MILLER: We are going to recess until 1:30.

12:10:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to receive and file.

12:11:00 >> Second.

12:11:00 (Motion carried)

12:11:01 (City Council recess)

12:11:05 Saul-Sena here.

13:36:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.

13:36:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. John Dingfelder will not be back

13:36:13 for the evening session.

13:36:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Afternoon?

13:36:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Afternoon.




13:36:16 The 1:30 meeting he won't be back for.

13:36:19 I don't know where he is.

13:36:25 Ordinance for first reading.

13:36:27 Mr. Miranda, do you have that?

13:36:29 75?

13:36:29 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.

13:36:34 Item 75 is an ordinance for first reading.

13:36:40 At our last meeting, City Council asked the staff of

13:36:44 the legal department to give further consideration to

13:36:46 two issues.

13:36:47 The first issue was flexibility in the permitting

13:36:51 process for the nonmodular news racks, the stand-alone.

13:36:56 The prior ordinance required the submittal of a site

13:36:58 plan.

13:36:59 The substitute ordinance requires that the applicant

13:37:02 provide the total number and exact location of each as

13:37:05 well as an affidavit that the locations are in

13:37:07 compliance with the ordinance.

13:37:14 City Council asked to us look into the imposition of

13:37:18 fees.

13:37:18 The prior ordinance and the current ordinance expressly

13:37:21 prohibit imposing any fees for any news wrack




13:37:25 application.

13:37:26 In response, the revised ordinance allows city

13:37:31 imposition of fees for the modular niece wracks only,

13:37:35 which require the submittal of dimension site plan.

13:37:42 It allows City Council to set this by resolution.

13:37:44 If it passes on first reading today, at second reading

13:37:47 the resolution actually setting those fees will be put

13:37:50 on the agenda to go with second reading.

13:37:53 There were some issues that were brought up this

13:37:55 morning that I would like to address briefly.

13:37:57 I believe the Tribune brought up two issues.

13:38:01 The first one, they had some concerns with the

13:38:04 provision in section 22-151 that prohibit news wracks

13:38:08 from being chained, bolted or attached to traffic

13:38:11 signs, utility poles or traffic control devices.

13:38:14 Just for your information, your current ordinance as

13:38:17 it's written today prohibits news wracks to any traffic

13:38:22 control device.

13:38:23 Staff had asked that the language be expanded somewhat.

13:38:25 I realize the attorney has asked that you limit the

13:38:29 language to only be city-owned signs, utility poles or

13:38:33 traffic control device, and that would be a policy




13:38:35 decision.

13:38:36 I think I believe the Tribune also asked that you

13:38:39 strike at the end of that sentence the term "or similar

13:38:43 fixture" as being vague.

13:38:47 This is an area protected by the first amendment.

13:38:50 We like it to be as specific as possible.

13:38:52 Since a similar fixture is further defined by traffic

13:38:55 signage, utility pole or traffic control device, it up

13:38:59 to City Council if you feel that that is invasion with

13:39:05 the first amendment that, is up to you as well.

13:39:07 The second issue had to do with the fees.

13:39:10 Again the fee resolution had to be approved by City

13:39:12 Council at the second hearing but I do agree with their

13:39:14 statement that the fees have to be justified and be no

13:39:18 more than the processing the application.

13:39:20 I'm available if there are any questions.

13:39:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Questions from council members?

13:39:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: A little clarification, even though

13:39:25 you just said it, it wasn't clear.

13:39:33 There are fees mentioned here but we are not adopting

13:39:35 them till the next time.

13:39:37 Why aren't they addressed now?




13:39:39 >>REBECCA KERT: Because the ordinance, in its current

13:39:42 state as it exists today, prohibits the imposition of

13:39:46 any fees.

13:39:47 I had to change that to allow you to even consider a

13:39:49 resolution.

13:39:51 >> Wasn't there some conversation in the letter from

13:39:53 the Tribune about $250 versus $25?

13:39:56 >> Yes.

13:39:56 >> But what's before us today doesn't address any

13:40:00 dollar amount?

13:40:01 >> Correct.

13:40:01 >> The on the question I have was from someone who

13:40:06 called and said, Linda, did you know that his

13:40:10 interpretation of this is that where we have these

13:40:12 modular units that individual publications are deprived

13:40:17 from having wracks or dispensing devices.

13:40:21 Is that true?

13:40:23 >>REBECCA KERT: No, that is not true.

13:40:25 And I did speak with him, and a day or so ago, and

13:40:28 advised him of such, and I sent a copy of the

13:40:32 ordinance, if you have any further questions.

13:40:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thanks for that clarification.




13:40:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Other questions by council members?

13:40:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: (off microphone).

13:40:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Mrs. Saul-Sena, would you like to read

13:40:49 it?

13:40:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to place the following

13:40:52 ordinance for first reading.

13:40:53 An ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida amending

13:40:55 city Tampa code of ordinances chapter 22 streets and

13:40:58 sidewalks, section 22-5, definitions.

13:41:02 Section 22-57 regarding fees, division 3, subdivision

13:41:07 V, news wracks, establishing criteria and approval of

13:41:11 application for a modular news wrack permit on public

13:41:15 rights-of-way, and making general comprehensive changes

13:41:18 regarding news racks, repealing all ordinances or parts

13:41:22 of ordinances in conflict, providing for severability,

13:41:25 providing an effective date.

13:41:26 And the question raised by the Trib about the vague

13:41:29 language about can't be attached to this or something

13:41:33 similar, we are striking that, correct?

13:41:35 >> That is up to City Council, if would you like me to

13:41:38 strike it between first and second reading.

13:41:39 >> I would like you to.




13:41:40 I think it is extremely vague.

13:41:41 >> If that's included in your motion.

13:41:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That is included in my motion.

13:41:45 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: So we are going to wipe that

13:41:47 section out?

13:41:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Just those words.

13:41:49 >> Did K they attach to a telephone pole that doesn't

13:41:52 belong to the city?

13:41:53 >>REBECCA KERT: The way it's written now, no, they

13:41:56 cannot, cannot attach to the any traffic signs, utility

13:42:00 poles or traffic control device, period.

13:42:02 >> City toned.

13:42:04 Doesn't it say that?

13:42:04 >> No.

13:42:05 That is the proposed language by the Tribune.

13:42:07 That's not in the portion before you.

13:42:12 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm sorry, I walked in late and just

13:42:16 catching up.

13:42:16 What about the second question and the letter from the

13:42:19 Tribune lawyer?

13:42:20 >> This doesn't address the fees at all.

13:42:22 This just allows you to consider a resolution which




13:42:25 should be coming back at second reading setting the

13:42:27 amount.

13:42:28 The amounts are not contained in the ordinance.

13:42:29 >> And you shouldn't have fees at all.

13:42:37 Okay.

13:42:38 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Madam Chairman, what's due on

13:42:48 these fees, are we going to start collecting

13:42:51 retroactive?

13:42:52 >>REBECCA KERT: I don't believe that there's any -- if

13:42:57 your question is to whether or not any existing modular

13:43:01 news wracks would have to pay a fee, they will have to

13:43:05 come and get a permit but it's my understanding that

13:43:06 the administration is not proposing that they have to

13:43:09 pay a fee, that they just get a permit if they are

13:43:12 already existing, because you have already worked with

13:43:14 them to install it in the right-of-way.

13:43:16 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.

13:43:21 Did anyone second?

13:43:23 Nobody is seconding it?

13:43:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Are we going to get a second?

13:43:46 If not it going to die for lack of a second.

13:43:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can we continue it to next week?




13:43:53 I move to continue to our next council meeting, which

13:43:56 is March 4th under first reading.

13:44:00 That will give everybody a chance to maybe do

13:44:02 additional research.

13:44:02 >> Second.

13:44:07 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Can we have him address us on

13:44:12 that issue?

13:44:13 >>GWEN MILLER: You have to reopen.

13:44:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council's pleasure.

13:44:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to reopen.

13:44:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to reopen.

13:44:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I don't want to vote against it but

13:44:24 the way the rules read --

13:44:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did you reopen the hearing?

13:44:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We are going to hear the same thing

13:44:32 today?

13:44:34 There's a hundred people in this room today that came

13:44:38 for something else on the agenda.

13:44:39 Why don't we wait till March 4th when these people

13:44:42 have had their say with us, whatever they are bringing

13:44:45 up.

13:44:45 I don't know.




13:44:46 So that everybody has the chance and the opportunity to

13:44:50 be heard.

13:44:52 That's all I'm saying.

13:44:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I remove my motion.

13:44:57 I move to continue this to March 4th under second

13:45:00 reading -- first reading.

13:45:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: First reading which would be under

13:45:04 public docket.

13:45:05 >>REBECCA KERT: And I will submit a substitute

13:45:09 ordinance with the change that was included in your

13:45:11 earlier motion.

13:45:12 Is that part of your direction?

13:45:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes, thank you.

13:45:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Well, if I can clarify, or ask for

13:45:18 clarification.

13:45:19 Normally your first readings appear as they do here,

13:45:22 not set for public hearing.

13:45:23 You have the option to do that and set it as a public

13:45:27 hearing or put it under staff report.

13:45:30 For a time certain.

13:45:31 >> I'm not sure the time certain meant time certain.

13:45:38 >> And did you want people to have the opportunity to




13:45:40 speak at that time?

13:45:43 >> We have a motion and second to continue item number

13:45:46 75 until next week.

13:45:48 >> Allowing the public to speak at that time.

13:45:56 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion say Aye.

13:45:58 Opposed, Nay.

13:45:59 Okay.

13:46:00 And item number 76.

13:46:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We don't have a lot of time to talk

13:46:10 about this, or the number 77 today.

13:46:13 Because these other things that seem more pressing.

13:46:17 So I wonder if we could do this at the end of our

13:46:21 meeting, and the people, the staff people could watch

13:46:24 it on television and come back at the end of the

13:46:25 meeting.

13:46:25 >>MARY MULHERN: Considering the second on this motion

13:46:33 was Mr. Dingfelder who is not here, it might make more

13:46:36 sense to continue this.

13:46:36 >> Move to continue this to March 4th under staff

13:46:41 reports.

13:46:43 And this will be at the top of the queue.

13:46:47 76 and 77.




13:46:49 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.

13:46:52 All in favor?

13:46:53 Opposed?

13:46:54 Item 78.

13:46:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That was continued to March 4th

13:47:06 when you approved the agenda.

13:47:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 79.

13:47:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You received a written report from

13:47:11 the chief regarding that item.

13:47:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to receive and file.

13:47:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.

13:47:16 (Motion carried).

13:47:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 78.

13:47:18 We have that, too.

13:47:19 Need to receive and file.

13:47:20 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That one as well if you wish.

13:47:24 >>GWEN MILLER: You need to receive and file that?

13:47:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you have a motion.

13:47:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.

13:47:29 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.

13:47:30 (Motion carried)

13:47:31 Item number 81.




13:47:34 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 80.

13:47:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Right, 80.

13:47:37 >>GWEN MILLER: We did that one.

13:47:41 We had the report from Pete Johnson.

13:47:43 We got a report on that.

13:47:46 We received and filed it.

13:47:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Madam Chairman, I have a question

13:47:51 for legal.

13:47:52 Legal, Mr. Shelby, or Mr. Fletcher.

13:47:57 We have heard a lot of back and forth on item 80.

13:48:00 And I just wondered, does City Council have the ability

13:48:04 to have like a special workshop meeting, and perhaps

13:48:13 clarify the issues that have been raised?

13:48:18 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: On item 80?

13:48:20 Frankly this is an issue that I would consider way down

13:48:23 in the details of how the administration manages a

13:48:26 program.

13:48:28 So while certainly there could be policy issues

13:48:31 associated with how the housing program is run, in this

13:48:35 particular instance it's simply a disagreement between

13:48:38 Mr. Johnson and the staff as to how that should have

13:48:42 been run.




13:48:44 And so in that case I just don't see that as an

13:48:47 appropriate topic for council.

13:48:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion to receive and file the written

13:48:53 report?

13:48:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.

13:48:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.

13:48:58 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor say Aye.

13:49:00 Opposed?

13:49:01 Mr. Shelby.

13:49:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Obviously as individual council

13:49:04 members you can make opportunities to hear both sides

13:49:07 of the story, and if you feel wish to have any further

13:49:10 conversation individually, that's your prerogative.

13:49:14 Based on what you heard.

13:49:15 But in terms of discussion, I agree with Mr. Fletcher,

13:49:18 and he's absolutely correct, that could get involved in

13:49:21 the administration of the particular program is outside

13:49:23 the purview.

13:49:26 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 81 need to receive and file.

13:49:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have to admit I was very

13:49:33 disappointed when I read this, that the transportation

13:49:35 department couldn't develop, then I heard something




13:49:39 encouraging and that was that the bicycle pedestrian

13:49:44 advocacy group is actually working on safe ways to get

13:49:48 to the park downtown.

13:49:50 And so what I would like to do is put this on our

13:49:53 agenda 60 days, which would be the second meeting in

13:50:00 April?

13:50:01 I will give them to the beginning of May, the first

13:50:03 meeting in May, to report back to us on safe routes,

13:50:06 north, south, east, west, to get to our downtown park.

13:50:09 >> The county or the city?

13:50:11 >> The city.

13:50:11 >> Well, the city can ask the county.

13:50:16 >> I believe this is really a collaborative effort.

13:50:18 The whole point is -- the city is working on it with

13:50:25 it.

13:50:28 The transportation department, representative from the

13:50:29 transportation department, is working in collaboration

13:50:31 with citizens to develop safe Blake racks.

13:50:43 I would like a report back live to appear and report

13:50:46 the first week in --

13:50:49 >> May 6th then.

13:50:51 >> Second.




13:50:51 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.

13:50:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Sports magazine said that we are

13:51:04 60, a staff effort in creating these choices for our

13:51:09 citizens.

13:51:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 82, receive and file the report.

13:51:15 >> So moved.

13:51:16 >> Second.

13:51:16 (Motion carried)

13:51:21 Item 83.

13:51:25 Anyone going to speak on those items, would you please

13:51:27 stand and raise your right hand?

13:51:28 (Oath administered by Clerk)

13:51:40 We need to open the public hearing.

13:51:41 >> So moved.

13:51:43 >> Second.

13:51:44 >> Item 83.

13:52:08 >> Land Development Coordination.

13:52:11 A question vacating unimproved alley from Himes Avenue.

13:52:24 EVERINA street.

13:52:27 Petitioner's property is highlighted in red.

13:52:33 Himes to the west.

13:52:35 And Everina to the east.




13:52:39 Behind the sports Avenue sports complex.

13:52:47 There is a picture of the alley looking west from

13:52:50 EVERINA street.

13:52:53 And you see about 100 feet in, and I have a closeup of

13:52:59 that.

13:53:00 So the alley is partially blocked.

13:53:06 And there's a picture from the west end looking east

13:53:10 from Himes Avenue, and also across the alley, plus the

13:53:14 utility pole in the middle of the alley.

13:53:21 There is a picture of the petitioner's property.

13:53:27 Also at the top, this is platted in 1907.

13:53:31 This is the alley that's being petitioned for

13:53:33 highlighted in yellow.

13:53:36 There were only six alleys platted in the whole

13:53:40 subdivision.

13:53:41 And staff has no objections to vacating the request as

13:53:49 long as utilities are reserved for Verizon.

13:53:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Council members?

13:53:59 Is there anyone in the public that would like to speak

13:54:00 on item 83?

13:54:02 >> Rob Wallace, 5119 North Florida Avenue.

13:54:13 I'm hear for the petitioner.




13:54:15 And lived at this property since 1990 and the alley is

13:54:22 a nonfunctional alley.

13:54:23 It has no municipal services in it.

13:54:26 There is a pole line for utilities, Verizon, an

13:54:31 easement, so it's unused space.

13:54:39 There's 17 homes that back up onto that property.

13:54:42 17 homeowners.

13:54:43 So we just feel that the alley doesn't serve a purpose.

13:54:47 All the other ones in the vicinity have been closed.

13:54:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker.

13:54:57 Did you want to speak?

13:54:58 >> Before you speak, I'm just curious.

13:55:01 >> I'm here in regard to the closing of the alley that

13:55:06 these gentlemen have been talking to.

13:55:07 >> You need to give me your name first.

13:55:09 Put your name on the record for me.

13:55:10 >> I'm sort of deaf.

13:55:12 What did you say?

13:55:13 >> Tell me your name.

13:55:14 >> Oh, Steven Hager.

13:55:20 I'm here in regard to the alley between Himes and

13:55:26 EVERINA, and the second house in from EVERINA.




13:55:31 What they did with the whole existing alley.

13:55:34 I just want to reserve and keep it so we can get in and

13:55:42 out of the backyard.

13:55:45 What we use it for is when we have company, they can

13:55:48 come on up the street, and park in the back.

13:55:55 If we have vacation people coming down that stay two or

13:55:58 three days, they can also get off the main road.

13:56:04 In hurricane season, or bad weather season, we can

13:56:08 leave our bigger unit in the back of the home and we

13:56:17 have been there for 49 years.

13:56:20 This is the first time the subject of the alleys have

13:56:27 come up.

13:56:28 I would very much like to keep access to the alley and

13:56:32 to my backyard.

13:56:33 And as far as the rest of the alley goes, that will

13:56:37 have to be worked out.

13:56:39 Thank you.

13:56:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.

13:56:40 Would anyone else like to speak?

13:56:41 >> My name is Rosyln Norman Elliott, and I am adjacent

13:56:54 to my neighbors to the back.

13:56:57 We were talking about access and right-of-way.




13:57:01 In my seven years of living there, I have not seen any

13:57:05 vehicle back and forth between that alleyway.

13:57:10 He has an existing temporary fence put up on that side

13:57:13 for the last seven years, and on the other there's no

13:57:17 fence.

13:57:17 So my back fence at this property line.

13:57:20 So basically has ten feet of the alleyway for the last

13:57:24 seven years at least to my knowledge.

13:57:27 So I would like for it to be closed off.

13:57:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Maybe when the public is done,

13:57:38 staff can come up.

13:57:41 Better explain.

13:57:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else like to speak?

13:57:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Could our staff come up and explain

13:57:50 with the maps where the older gentleman spoke who was

13:57:54 concerned about where it was and where the petitioner

13:57:57 is asking for a vacation?

13:57:58 >> The gentleman that spoke is the second property in.

13:58:09 The stock fence begins with the west property line.

13:58:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Could we keep the alley closed

13:58:15 behind his house and vacate it to the west?

13:58:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Closed or open?




13:58:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Leave it open for the gentleman.

13:58:25 The older gentleman.

13:58:30 Couldn't we keep it open for the first two properties

13:58:32 and then close it after that to the west?

13:58:35 >> We are not opposed to a partial vacating.

13:58:37 We have done it before in the past.

13:58:39 Technically, it already blocked off from his west

13:58:42 property line all the way to the west.

13:58:44 >> But this way with, it would allow the gentleman who

13:58:47 is using the alley for access for his garage.

13:58:51 >> I did receive a letter from the property owner to

13:58:52 the south side, the first lot here, lived there for 56

13:58:56 years, and she would like it closed.

13:58:57 >> But she's not here.

13:59:01 >> She's not here.

13:59:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just to remind you, council, the

13:59:07 purpose of the vacation is the weighing of whether it

13:59:11 remains a public purpose for the decision to vacate the

13:59:15 right-of-way, and to not necessarily weigh who comes to

13:59:23 speak and in favor of an opposition.

13:59:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Shouldn't our basic premise be it's

13:59:30 public land, and for the public, if someone wants to




13:59:32 close this, that they are making that request to the

13:59:34 city, but that our overall responsibility is the

13:59:37 community.

13:59:38 And if somebody wants it open, which currently is

13:59:42 legally and somebody wants it closed, that the

13:59:45 preponderance of weight should be going to open.

13:59:48 So if we were to open the first two lot and close to

13:59:50 the west of that, that would mean the petitioner's

13:59:53 request as well as the request of the person that wants

13:59:55 it open.

13:59:56 >> After speaking with legal, we think it probably

14:00:01 better to vacate the whole thing and reserve a

14:00:04 transportation easement over the eastern portion for

14:00:06 access over the first 100 feet.

14:00:08 Technically it vacated.

14:00:10 It just going --

14:00:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It can never be blocked off.

14:00:16 >>MARY MULHERN: Don't go away, because I don't know.

14:00:23 I don't understand this.

14:00:24 Okay.

14:00:24 When you look at the little map with the lots, the

14:00:30 plotted map, is that alley accessible between Everina




14:00:38 and Himes?

14:00:40 Can I walk from one end to the other?

14:00:44 >>JAMES COOK: Only for the first lot at Everina.

14:00:49 >> And that's the part that the gentleman doesn't want

14:00:51 to have closed.

14:00:52 >> He's on the second lot, and wants rear access to the

14:00:57 lot.

14:00:57 >> It's interesting to me that we have one resident on

14:01:01 all these residences asking for vacation.

14:01:05 So to vacate the whole alley --

14:01:10 >> It's been my experience over the years by people who

14:01:13 live along that alley have the opinion it's already

14:01:15 been vacated previously because they have already

14:01:18 incorporated it into their yards.

14:01:19 It all fenced off.

14:01:21 Utility structures within the alley.

14:01:24 Plants have been around since -- annexed into the city

14:01:29 in 1953.

14:01:30 >> It doesn't look like to me.

14:01:32 >> That's just the beginning of it.

14:01:34 >> But that's what we are talking about.

14:01:35 >> Beyond that fence --




14:01:39 >> Which fence?

14:01:40 At the end here?

14:01:40 >> Yes.

14:01:41 Once you get beyond that fence, there's all kinds of

14:01:43 structures and encroachments inside the alleyway.

14:01:47 >>

14:01:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Which are technically illegal now

14:01:50 because the alley is off.

14:01:52 >>JAMES COOK: That's correct.

14:01:54 >>MARY MULHERN: Is the petitioner --

14:01:55 >> They are not even in the picture.

14:01:58 They are in the middle of the block.

14:01:59 They have already incorporated.

14:02:00 >> So they are using it.

14:02:10 My feeling is an alley here, it's nice when you live in

14:02:15 the city to have an alley.

14:02:16 And if anybody would like to have the alley behind

14:02:18 their backyard, that they already have access to, they

14:02:21 should.

14:02:23 So if we are going to ask for vacation, I wouldn't go

14:02:28 beyond parts that have already been used illegally,

14:02:33 because that's an alley.




14:02:38 You can walk your dog out there.

14:02:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Madam Chair, you can't look at one

14:02:47 thing and isolate it in 50 different pieces.

14:02:50 It already isolated in 50 different pieces.

14:02:53 The lady at the end wants it closed.

14:02:55 The next lot wants it open.

14:02:56 You can't have cake if you are diabetic.

14:03:01 So what I'm saying here is either close it or tell the

14:03:04 people, no, you are not going to close it.

14:03:11 It's already closed down the middle, with structures on

14:03:14 it.

14:03:17 So I don't understand.

14:03:19 Maybe -- you cannot apiece everyone.

14:03:25 If the -- appease everyone.

14:03:28 The lady want it closed from way heard.

14:03:31 The next one wants it open.

14:03:32 And there's evidence that says that from what I heard

14:03:34 from one of the neighbors, no one goes to the back.

14:03:37 So, I mean, I have to take what I hear as the facts.

14:03:40 >>MARY MULHERN: I was just going to say, the fact is

14:03:49 part of it is -- there is an alley.

14:03:54 Part of it exists as an alley.




14:03:56 The on the part is illegally used.

14:04:01 So I think if you have got two people, and the one

14:04:04 person wants it to remain public, I think we ought to

14:04:11 at least let him have his portion remain public.

14:04:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

14:04:17 >>JULIA COLE: And I would like to remind you legally

14:04:29 what's in front of you and what your options are.

14:04:31 >> Ronnie Kelly.

14:04:35 3401 west Dorchester street which is one of the two

14:04:38 houses the gentleman wants to keep open for his own

14:04:41 personal purposes.

14:04:44 That alley from that fence all the way back to Himes,

14:04:48 that has been closed off for nearly 40 years.

14:04:51 When the city quit using that alley for trash quickup,

14:04:54 everybody decided just to incorporate it in their own

14:04:57 and that's been over 40 years.

14:04:59 My mother-in-law, God rest her soul, was asked by this

14:05:03 gents many years ago to keep that portion of the alley

14:05:06 open for his use, and she granted it.

14:05:10 She's now gone.

14:05:11 Somebody wants to close the entire alley up.

14:05:13 Why should he say, okay, we'll let the alley from the




14:05:16 fence, the west side of his property, down to Himes be

14:05:20 closed, and then these last two we can't?

14:05:23 That's not right.

14:05:24 Either you close all the alley or you don't close any

14:05:27 of them.

14:05:27 That's all I have got to say.

14:05:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker.

14:05:33 You can't speak again.

14:05:34 The person behind you.

14:05:39 Ding

14:05:40 >> My name is Tim Totten, 3407 Dorchester.

14:05:47 I have been there for 40 years.

14:05:49 And it's been -- shall we say, I guess we didn't look

14:05:59 into it carefully but everybody thought the alleyway

14:06:01 was part of their jurisdiction or right to maintain

14:06:06 their five feet.

14:06:08 They had some people actually take the 10 feet halfway

14:06:13 and then the other people took the other ten feet the

14:06:15 other way and put in some gardens and things like that.

14:06:18 So there's no real structures down there.

14:06:20 But it was all fences.

14:06:22 And the gentleman here, he has been keeping it open.




14:06:25 He's been parking vans and other things in the

14:06:30 backyard.

14:06:31 But I don't think he used in so long.

14:06:34 There is a temporary fence he put up.

14:06:36 It's the first little barricade that you hit.

14:06:39 And so basically he fenced it off a long time ago

14:06:43 himself.

14:06:45 And he still wants half.

14:06:47 Then I heard the comment, well, there's one person that

14:06:50 wants to close it and one person that wants it open.

14:06:53 And I just wanted you to know the room is full of many

14:06:57 more people besides just one on one.

14:06:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else like to speak?

14:07:06 You can't speak again.

14:07:07 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want to say I'm sorry, I wish I

14:07:10 hadn't said anything because I didn't realize we hadn't

14:07:12 heard from everyone.

14:07:14 So what would help me -- and the only thing that really

14:07:17 concerns me is that when I look at this photograph, and

14:07:20 I don't know how old it is.

14:07:22 It looks like it goes pretty far back but I can't tell.

14:07:24 So how many -- that's only one house?




14:07:35 Thank you.

14:07:35 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.

14:07:39 The discussion in front of council when you are

14:07:41 considering a vacation is whether or not whatever is

14:07:45 being requested vacated in this particular alley.

14:07:49 If there is a need in the public interest and keep that

14:07:51 within the public trust within the city's right-of-way,

14:07:55 that it has control over.

14:07:57 You have a couple of options.

14:07:58 You can vacate the entire right-of-way after making a

14:08:03 determination after review of the evidence that this is

14:08:05 an alley that's no longer needed to be held in public

14:08:08 trust in the public interest.

14:08:09 Your other option is to have -- well, to deny it.

14:08:13 Your third option is you can keep a public

14:08:16 transportation easement over the entire area, or a

14:08:19 partial area.

14:08:22 I note that if this remains right-of-way, or

14:08:24 alternatively the entire alley remains as a public

14:08:28 easement, there can be no structures affected which

14:08:31 would block the public's use of that area.

14:08:33 So any of the structures that are currently within that




14:08:36 area that maybe have been there for a period of time

14:08:40 are not legal and will need to be removed.

14:08:43 So those are a couple of your options.

14:08:47 If City Council determines that maybe keeping a portion

14:08:49 of the alley either unvacated which is not what staff

14:08:53 would recommend but keep maybe a portion of it with a

14:08:56 public transportation easement, typically when we do

14:08:59 some kind of partial easement or partial holding open,

14:09:03 right-of-way, we always like from the transportation

14:09:06 perspective to have turn-around for traffic so they are

14:09:09 not having to back up but given that there are only two

14:09:13 or four houses this may be a situation write don't

14:09:15 think that would be necessary, and I don't know if the

14:09:18 transportation department has a concern with that.

14:09:20 I don't sense that they would but I do want to say that

14:09:23 for the record so at some point in the future if we

14:09:25 have that conversation we are able to distinguish the

14:09:27 situation from maybe another situation.

14:09:29 So those are the options and it would be up to City

14:09:31 Council to determine whether or not you want to either

14:09:33 amend the ordinance, to put in place a public

14:09:36 transportation easements for a portion of that.




14:09:38 In that case, I don't know between first and second

14:09:41 reading, if we need to continue first reading, and

14:09:44 alternatively you can approve it as it is or deny it.

14:09:48 >>MARY MULHERN: Was everyone noticed that lives

14:09:51 adjacent to this?

14:09:55 >> Our process will require that everyone who is

14:09:57 adjacent to the right-of-way would be noticed.

14:10:04 So they are noticed this is a public hearing and they

14:10:06 would be noticed.

14:10:07 So they should have been noticed.

14:10:10 >> Have they been noticed?

14:10:12 Who can tell me that?

14:10:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner, will you come back up?

14:10:16 >>> As is required by the vacating process, we had to

14:10:23 send a letter to each of the 17 property owners, and

14:10:28 the postal service verified.

14:10:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you have any closing remarks?

14:10:32 >>> Yes, ma'am, if I may.

14:10:35 Mrs. Hood, the petitioner, as I said has been there

14:10:38 since 1990.

14:10:39 Four years ago, she looked into this matter and talked

14:10:41 to some city staff people about closing the alley.




14:10:44 At the time, she was just interested in closing her

14:10:47 portion of the alley.

14:10:48 And she didn't file all the paperwork at that time.

14:10:52 What we understood is perhaps in the last couple of

14:10:54 years the city has maybe made a decision that there

14:10:56 will be no partial closing of alleys, it's either close

14:11:00 the whole alley or don't close the whole alley.

14:11:03 At least that's what we were told.

14:11:05 Staff, during the process, I thought they indicated

14:11:08 that on the west end of this alley that there was

14:11:12 either improper platting or something that led them to

14:11:15 believe that there was not a true alley all the way

14:11:18 through.

14:11:19 The west end had a problem.

14:11:21 In any event, and you heard from the staff all of the

14:11:26 alleys in the vicinity have been closed.

14:11:28 There is no city function to any of those alleys.

14:11:32 This alley is in the same position.

14:11:34 There is no water lines, sewer lines or solid waste

14:11:37 pickup in the back anymore, so the petitioner is simply

14:11:40 trying to, I guess, codify what has happened over the

14:11:46 last 40 years, as you heard, where there is no function




14:11:49 there, and that land she feels should revert to the

14:11:55 property owners, and the city is not maintaining it and

14:11:57 has not maintained anything in there for decades.

14:12:00 So we would just ask you to look favorably on the

14:12:02 petition, if you feel that that western end, or the

14:12:05 eastern end of Mr. Higgins would be of some value.

14:12:09 We would not be opposed to some easement on that end.

14:12:12 That would leave it open for them.

14:12:16 By closing it, it still would not have prevented Mr.

14:12:19 Higgins from working an arrangement of having some

14:12:22 easement with his neighbors that would allow for the

14:12:26 purpose that he's still looking for.

14:12:27 So we just ask you to look favorably upon our petition.

14:12:30 >>MARY MULHERN: The question for land development

14:12:32 then, is this a policy when people come to you for

14:12:35 vacating?

14:12:37 Do we have a policy?

14:12:40 Or you always recommend that you close an entire alley?

14:12:44 >> Well, city code prohibits you from partially

14:12:47 vacating, doing a partial vacating.

14:12:49 What happens with Tampa City Council is up to you.

14:12:53 In the past we've done partial vacatings, we have done




14:12:55 vacatings with turnarounds and without turnarounds.

14:13:00 Just to prohibit them.

14:13:03 But we can work everything out once we get over here.

14:13:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think that we have a positive

14:13:09 solution to this.

14:13:10 We can make the petitioner happy by vacating their

14:13:15 portion of it and the rest of the way down and allowing

14:13:19 a transportation easement behind the man in the red

14:13:21 sweater for two houses down.

14:13:23 That would be my motion.

14:13:24 >>GWEN MILLER: We haven't closed yet.

14:13:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I would like to ask the city a

14:13:33 question.

14:13:42 You have a letter from the lady at the end that says

14:13:44 she wants it closed?

14:13:47 >> Yes.

14:13:47 >> So how can you close that and leave the next one

14:13:50 open?

14:13:50 >> You can't.

14:13:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: She wasn't the petitioner.

14:13:57 >>JAMES COOK: She's on the very end.

14:13:59 >> She may not be the petitioner but she has the same




14:14:02 right the gentleman in the red sweater has.

14:14:03 >>JAMES COOK: May I make a suggestion?

14:14:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes.

14:14:11 >>JAMES COOK: Just speaking from experience.

14:14:14 The property owner on the north side of the property at

14:14:16 the very corner --

14:14:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can you push it up a little more?

14:14:21 Thanks.

14:14:21 >>JAMES COOK: It very unlikely this property owner is

14:14:25 going to rip that fence and move it halfway through the

14:14:29 alleyway.

14:14:31 I'm surprised people don't incorporate the alley once

14:14:33 it's vacated.

14:14:34 So maybe this property owner that's objecting can work

14:14:38 out, the two abutting property owners, a private

14:14:41 ingress-egress.

14:14:43 That way the city is out of it.

14:14:45 If they can't we reserve the transportation and go back

14:14:48 to square one and give him the opportunity to talk to

14:14:51 the people on the end.

14:14:52 That way, it can be a private fence with a gate to

14:14:56 swing open, allowing him to drive in.




14:14:58 They don't have to move this fence.

14:15:03 It would be a three-party agreement.

14:15:04 >>MARY MULHERN: The gentleman that has the objection,

14:15:07 is his property the wrought iron fence?

14:15:16 >> (off microphone).

14:15:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Sir, you have to come up --

14:15:23 >>MARY MULHERN: He didn't need to do that either.

14:15:25 I Watt just trying to figure out.

14:15:29 I would like to make a substitute motion.

14:15:31 >>GWEN MILLER: We haven't closed the public meeting.

14:15:34 Any other questions?

14:15:35 We need to close the public hearing then.

14:15:37 Approximate.

14:15:38 >> Move to close.

14:15:38 >> Second.

14:15:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to close.

14:15:42 Ms. Mulhern?

14:15:43 >> I would move, after hearing all this testimony, to

14:15:48 vacate the entire alley.

14:15:50 There's one objection.

14:15:52 And I think that perhaps -- you said we could reserve a

14:15:59 transportation easement just for that?




14:16:03 And reserve transportation easement for that.

14:16:05 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.

14:16:08 All in favor of the motion say Aye.

14:16:09 Opposed, Nay.

14:16:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Motion to direct legal department to

14:16:15 come back with an ordinance that will reflect that.

14:16:18 >>JULIA COLE: That is a change that I'm comfortable we

14:16:21 can make between first and second reading so I would

14:16:23 ask that you ask the department to come back with that

14:16:25 change in the ordinance between first and second

14:16:27 reading.

14:16:28 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to read this then?

14:16:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes.

14:16:30 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance vacating, closing,

14:16:35 discontinuing, and abandoning a certain right-of-way,

14:16:39 alleyway, lying south of Carrington street, north of

14:16:43 Dorchester street, east of Himes Avenue, and west of

14:16:45 the EVERINA in corrected map Oakland park, a

14:16:49 subdivision in the city of Tampa, Florida, the same

14:16:52 being more fully described in section 2 hereof subject

14:16:54 to the reservation of certain permanent easements as

14:16:57 set forth herein subject to certain covenants,




14:17:00 conditions and restrictions as more particularly

14:17:02 described herein providing an effective date.

14:17:03 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.

14:17:07 All in favor of the motion say Aye.

14:17:09 Opposed, Nay.

14:17:10 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Scott and Dingfelder

14:17:13 being absent.

14:17:14 Second reading of the ordinance will be held March

14:17:18 4th at 9:30 a.m.

14:17:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 84.

14:17:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Go ahead.

14:17:49 >>LaCHONE DOCK: Land Development Coordination.

14:17:53 And I have been sworn.

14:17:54 The next item on the agenda is petition number V-10-50

14:17:59 for property located at 120 Gasparilla plaza, the

14:18:03 property is currently zoned CBD2.

14:18:06 The special use is for alcohol beverage sales, large

14:18:10 venue, 4(COP-X).

14:18:12 This allows for the sale of alcoholic beverages

14:18:14 regardless of alcoholic content for consumption on

14:18:17 premises only.

14:18:20 This is the site of the Tampa Museum of Art, which of




14:18:22 course is located downtown and the existing use is a

14:18:28 public cultural facility, site contains 139,603 square

14:18:35 feet.

14:18:35 The area under this request is 112,920 square feet of

14:18:40 which 17,324 square feet is outdoor area, which is

14:18:45 located on the ground floor.

14:18:50 And I have an aerial

14:19:02 And this is the site located here in blue.

14:19:06 That's the area for the alcoholic sales in blue.

14:19:08 The site is located in yellow boarded with Ashley drive

14:19:11 to the east of the site.

14:19:16 And the pictures.

14:19:19 This was of course when it was under construction but

14:19:22 this is the entrance to the site off of Ashley.

14:19:25 Another view.

14:19:25 That's the children's museum located directly next

14:19:28 door.

14:19:31 This is a view after construction.

14:19:36 Another view.

14:19:45 >> You keep showing us pictures of the children's

14:19:47 museum.

14:19:47 You really mean the Tampa Museum of Art.




14:19:51 >> It next door.

14:19:55 The development review committee has reviewed the

14:19:57 petition, finds the request inconsistent with

14:19:58 applicable City of Tampa land development regulations.

14:20:02 However, the request for modifications between first an

14:20:05 second reading, the development review committee will

14:20:07 amend its determination and find the petition

14:20:09 consistent.

14:20:11 And the revisions that are requested are solid waste,

14:20:15 and there are actually four notes that we are

14:20:18 requesting be placed on the site plan in between first

14:20:20 and second reading.

14:20:22 And I would like to put those notes on the record, if I

14:20:24 could.

14:20:24 It's on page 2 of the staff report.

14:20:28 One is that it's the full responsibility of the Museum

14:20:31 of Art to ensure the 4-cubic-yard dumpster will be

14:20:37 rolled out, to be agreed 10 by 10 service area for

14:20:39 solid waste pickup, the other note is access doors to

14:20:43 the dumpster designated areas are to remain closed at

14:20:47 all times except during time of solid waste pickup.

14:20:50 To accommodate this, City of Tampa's truck, a 16-foot




14:20:56 has been provided, and service personnel to be

14:20:59 available on-site at the time of to ensure

14:21:04 accessibility to the dumpster.

14:21:05 And those notes are requested on the site plan between

14:21:08 first and second reading.

14:21:09 And that concludes the staff's presentation.

14:21:11 I'm available if you have any questions.

14:21:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Question by council members?

14:21:18 Petitioner?

14:21:19 >> Kathryn Donnelly, Holland and Knight.

14:21:26 I know this is a project you are very familiar with,

14:21:29 and if you have any questions, the notes that were

14:21:32 requested to be added to the site plan are acceptable.

14:21:36 We have not received any phone calls in opposition or

14:21:40 any issues from neighbors.

14:21:43 I would ask that you approve.

14:21:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that

14:21:47 would like to speak on item 84?

14:21:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to close.

14:21:52 >> Second.

14:21:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to close.

14:21:54 (Motion carried)




14:21:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move an ordinance approving a

14:22:13 special use S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales, large

14:22:17 venue, and making lawful the sale of beverages

14:22:20 regardless of alcoholic content, beer, wine and liquor

14:22:23 4(COP-X) for consumption on premises only at or from a

14:22:26 certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 120

14:22:30 Gasparilla plaza, Tampa, Florida, more particularly

14:22:33 described in section 2 therefore, imposing certain

14:22:37 conditions based upon the location of the property,

14:22:39 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict,

14:22:41 providing an effective date.

14:22:43 Just a footnote.

14:22:44 As long as it meets the requirements as stated by the

14:22:48 city's legal department and all on the departments that

14:22:53 might be involved.

14:22:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.

14:22:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: All of us on council are so proud

14:23:00 of the New Tampa Museum of Art, and this will help the

14:23:02 museum improve it's bottom line which will benefit our

14:23:07 entire community.

14:23:08 So I'm excited.

14:23:09 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.




14:23:11 All in favor of the motion?

14:23:13 Opposed?

14:23:14 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried with Dingfelder and

14:23:16 Scott being absent.

14:23:18 Second reading of the ordinance will be held March

14:23:20 4th at 9:30 a.m.

14:23:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 85.

14:23:40 >>LaCHONE DOCK: Land Development Coordination.

14:23:42 And I have been sworn.

14:23:43 The next item on the agenda is petition V-10-51 for the

14:23:47 property located at 17506 preserve walk lane, unit

14:23:51 number 3.

14:23:52 Property is currently zoned PDA, planned developmental

14:23:55 alternative for commercial strip center.

14:23:57 The proposed special use is for alcoholic beverage

14:24:00 sales small venue 4(COP) which allows for the sale of

14:24:03 alcoholic beverages regardless of alcoholic content for

14:24:06 consumption on the premises and in sealed containers

14:24:10 for consumption off premises.

14:24:12 According to the application, a bar lounge located

14:24:16 within the commercial strip center.

14:24:17 The shopping center contains 12,695 square feet.




14:24:21 The special use will contain 1,663 square feet,

14:24:27 consisting of 253 square feet of outdoor seating.

14:24:31 A total of 68 spaces are required with 76 spaces being

14:24:37 provided.

14:24:41 And I have an aerial of the site.

14:24:48 This is the site in yellow, on preserve walk lane,

14:24:52 Bruce B. Downs Boulevard is running along the east of

14:24:54 the site, and this area in blue is the location for the

14:24:57 requested alcohol sales.

14:25:00 Here is a picture.

14:25:13 Towards the west of the site.

14:25:15 This is just the other end of the strip that the site

14:25:17 is on.

14:25:20 And that's west of it.

14:25:22 The development review committee has reviewed the

14:25:26 petition and finds it inconsistent with applicable City

14:25:28 of Tampa land development regulations.

14:25:31 However, if the requested changes are made between

14:25:33 first and second reading, the development review

14:25:35 committee will and its determination and find the

14:25:38 petition consistent.

14:25:40 On page 2 of the staff report, council, there are three




14:25:44 changes requested, and I would like to put those on

14:25:46 record.

14:25:47 These are additions we would like to have made to the

14:25:48 site plan between first and second reading.

14:25:51 One is in the data table, amend the area for proposed

14:25:54 sale to 1,663 square feet including 1400 square feet

14:25:58 indoor and 263 square feet outdoor.

14:26:02 Shade the outdoor area from proposed outdoor beverage

14:26:06 sales and identify the square footage.

14:26:08 The last note is in the site data table as the total

14:26:12 building occupancy.

14:26:13 That concludes staff's presentation.

14:26:15 I'm available if you have any questions.

14:26:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?

14:26:24 >> Tom Elliott, petitioner.

14:26:28 We own and operate 13 locations in the southwest and

14:26:32 central Florida area.

14:26:33 We are responsible and conscientious operation with a

14:26:36 proven track record, very excited about the possibility

14:26:38 of opening a location in New Tampa.

14:26:41 And I'm here to answer any questions you may have about

14:26:45 who we are and what we do.




14:26:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Questions from council members?

14:26:50 Mr. Caetano?

14:26:51 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: How many square feet are you

14:26:53 having outside?

14:26:54 >>> 216 or 18 feet, sir. The property itself is

14:27:04 located adjacent to a preserve, and the surrounding is

14:27:08 all commercial.

14:27:09 In our opinion an ideal location for what we do.

14:27:11 >> And do you have 78 parking spaces?

14:27:14 That's for the whole center?

14:27:16 >> That's correct.

14:27:19 A requirement from transportation for all of the center

14:27:22 and what we will require.

14:27:26 That 68 number I believe is the whole entire center,

14:27:30 yeah.

14:27:30 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: When we close the public hearing

14:27:41 I'll have something else to say.

14:27:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone else in the public that

14:27:44 would like to speak on item 835?

14:27:46 >> Move to close.

14:27:51 >> Second.

14:27:51 (Motion carried).




14:27:53 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Madam Chairman, I'm opposed to

14:27:56 the outside seating.

14:27:57 I don't know if Mr. Elliott has been up there in the

14:28:00 evenings, especially on weekends.

14:28:04 Starbuck's has a police officer assigned now on

14:28:07 weekends.

14:28:07 And I asked the police officer, why are you here?

14:28:10 He says because there's too much disruption from the

14:28:13 kids coming from the movies.

14:28:14 Sometimes there's 150 kids in there, between there and

14:28:17 the ice cream place.

14:28:19 And you are pretty close to the back of Starbuck's.

14:28:22 And that's where these kids hang out.

14:28:24 >>> If I may, I don't know if I have a picture of

14:28:29 exactly --

14:28:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to reopen.

14:28:31 >> Second.

14:28:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to reopen.

14:28:34 >>> The outdoor area really is insulated.

14:28:38 I do understand your point about there being some

14:28:40 traffic in the front of the center.

14:28:42 But the Starbuck's is actually in an adjacent center,




14:28:45 not even on the same parcel.

14:28:47 >> I realize that.

14:28:49 >>> I know you are in that area.

14:28:50 But where we are with the outdoor, it's important to

14:28:54 what we do, and we definitively need an outdoor area to

14:29:01 provide -- we are a smoking facility, and the outdoor,

14:29:06 you know, that's part of what we do everywhere.

14:29:08 >> Can't they smoke inside the facility?

14:29:11 >> The whole point is that the outside provides a

14:29:19 smoke-free environment for people who don't smoke.

14:29:21 And where it's located, I do understand your point

14:29:24 about the front of it perhaps being a lot of traffic

14:29:26 and whatnot.

14:29:27 But where we are in the center and where our outdoor is

14:29:31 proposed, it is really definitively insulated from

14:29:34 where you are talking about.

14:29:36 And for your own edification, that area will have an

14:29:39 awning over it, and a wrought iron type gate that

14:29:45 encloses the area, and again really insulated from any

14:29:50 potential conflict with anyone else.

14:29:54 It right in the alleyway.

14:29:55 >> I specifically stay away from there on weekends.




14:29:58 The kids come from the theater in hundreds.

14:30:03 And they are going to be in and around your place.

14:30:06 That's for sure.

14:30:07 So I could not support that outside portion of it.

14:30:09 I'll support the inside, because you have no food.

14:30:12 It just a drinking establishment.

14:30:13 >> That's correct.

14:30:14 It's a neighborhood bar.

14:30:15 >> The outdoor, and again, now, it's really important

14:30:23 to what we do and how we do it and how we present it.

14:30:27 We have got -- there are double doors that come out to

14:30:34 it and just the overall presentation and whatnot.

14:30:36 I honestly believe -- and I believe I can convince you

14:30:39 that the outdoor portion, the way we are going to do

14:30:42 it, is not going to be affected by that.

14:30:46 And again we are responsible operators.

14:30:49 We have 13 other locations.

14:30:51 We certainly had to address mitigating circumstances in

14:30:54 other areas that all of our people are trained through

14:30:57 TIPSs, and that's the responsible vendor program, and

14:31:04 100 percent capability to successfully police our

14:31:07 outdoor activity without interfering with any minors or




14:31:11 anything else.

14:31:11 And again, I will reiterate that where we are in the

14:31:14 center was really ideal, because it's in an alleyway,

14:31:18 and it actually opens onto the dumpster.

14:31:22 And where we are in the center, it truly is insulated.

14:31:29 The outdoor is paramount to what we do.

14:31:31 >> I go by there every day.

14:31:33 Every day.

14:31:34 Sometimes five times a day.

14:31:36 And if you had food, that would be a different story

14:31:39 for your nonsmokers because you can't smoke where you

14:31:42 are serving food.

14:31:43 >>> That's correct.

14:31:44 That's not what we do.

14:31:51 But the outdoor again, it's paramount to what we do.

14:31:54 And I understand your point.

14:31:57 But, at the same time, I really don't see -- can you

14:32:01 give me a circumstance where that could would be an

14:32:03 issue?

14:32:05 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: You have kids who have nothing to

14:32:07 do walking around, and they are going to be over your

14:32:11 way, okay?




14:32:13 It's not that far -- your front door is right behind

14:32:19 Starbuck's.

14:32:19 >>> Not --

14:32:22 >> Well, there's a little retention pond there.

14:32:23 And then you have the haircutting place next door.

14:32:33 Is that a chocolate place?

14:32:35 >>> It was.

14:32:35 I know you know exactly where it is.

14:32:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Why don't you put that up so we can

14:32:45 all see it?

14:32:45 >> If you look at that side right between where the

14:32:53 pillar is and the back of the building is where there

14:32:55 will be a double door, and then an awning that will

14:32:58 come out over the top, and again it's insulated into

14:33:02 that point.

14:33:03 Now, I could be agreeable to maybe further insulating

14:33:07 that front so that kids could not see that unless they

14:33:12 walked all the way around to the back toward, into the

14:33:16 alleyway where the dumpster is, so that would be

14:33:19 buffered, if you will, from that.

14:33:21 But if you look down there --

14:33:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm thinking who wants to work by a




14:33:30 dumpster?

14:33:31 But, anyway.

14:33:32 >>> The Starbuck's is a pretty good ways from where we

14:33:36 are talking about. The Starbuck's is on the front of

14:33:38 the property which abuts the street, which Mr. Caetano

14:33:41 does point out correctly that I'm sure kids come there

14:33:45 from the movie theater and whatnot.

14:33:47 But this is actually another parcel, you know,

14:33:49 significantly, in my opinion, behind it.

14:33:52 And with the outdoor being confined in that alleyway,

14:33:55 as I said, I would definitely consider doing something

14:34:02 with vegetation or whatever to further buffer that.

14:34:05 But the outdoor portion is what we do is important, and

14:34:09 would be difficult for me to move forward without the

14:34:12 outdoor.

14:34:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: A question about the natural

14:34:18 preserve area behind you.

14:34:19 It looks like it pretty deep.

14:34:21 Do you have a ballpark of how deep it is?

14:34:25 100 feet?

14:34:26 200 feet of?

14:34:28 >>> A couple hundred yards.




14:34:30 It's vegetation through that.

14:34:33 I don't know if that's accurate.

14:34:35 But it's definitely buffered.

14:34:40 We have been looking in this area for probably three

14:34:42 and a half years.

14:34:43 And when we found this spot, we thought this would be

14:34:47 the perfect spot for us, because of the mitigating

14:34:51 factors, that we can be Buford and be away from kind of

14:34:54 everything that goes on.

14:34:56 And again, I would be agreeable to maybe further buffer

14:35:00 it with some vegetation, so that the front side of the

14:35:03 outdoor maybe isn't as visible.

14:35:08 But again, it's in an alleyway where a dumpster is.

14:35:11 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to close the public hearing.

14:35:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.

14:35:17 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.

14:35:17 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor say Aye.

14:35:20 Opposed?

14:35:21 Do you want to read that?

14:35:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'll move an ordinance approving a

14:35:24 special use permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales

14:35:27 large venue making lawful the sale of beverages




14:35:29 containing alcohol regard -- regardless of alcoholic

14:35:32 content beer or wine or liquor 4(COP) on premises and

14:35:38 in off premises on that certain lot, plot, tract of

14:35:42 land located at 17506 preserve walk lane, unit number

14:35:47 3, Tampa, Florida, as more particularly described in

14:35:50 section 2 hereof providing for repeal of all ordinances

14:35:53 in conflict, providing an effective date.

14:35:56 >> Second.

14:35:56 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.

14:35:59 Did.

14:36:00 >>

14:36:00 >>MARY MULHERN: Did you tad three conditions?

14:36:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: With the three conditions that our

14:36:04 staff outlined.

14:36:05 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor say Aye.

14:36:06 Opposed, Nay.

14:36:07 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Nay.

14:36:11 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Scott and Dingfelder

14:36:14 being absent and Caetano voting no.

14:36:16 Second reading of the ordinance Hillsborough held March

14:36:18 4th at 9:30 a.m.

14:36:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 86.




14:36:58 >>LaCHONE DOCK: The next item is V-10-69, unit 112,

14:37:06 1208.

14:37:08 Channel District.

14:37:09 Proposed use is for alcoholic beverage sales, small

14:37:12 venue, 2(COP), which allows for the sale of alcoholic

14:37:14 beverages for consumption on the premises and in sealed

14:37:18 containers for consumption off premises.

14:37:22 The proposed use is a bar and lounge.

14:37:25 The site is located on the ground floor of the mixed

14:37:28 use development, Grand Central, which contains 14

14:37:33 stories, 2,439 square feet.

14:37:38 There's no outdoor seating proposed. The total of 1026

14:37:44 spaces are required for the entire development and 1401

14:37:48 spaces have been provided.

14:37:57 This is the site located with Channelside Drive to the

14:38:00 east and Meridian to the west.

14:38:02 And this is the location of the site here on the

14:38:04 corner.

14:38:10 And this is a picture of the site.

14:38:18 That's the north, the west side of it.

14:38:23 That's a have you looking west on Madison street.

14:38:30 The development review committee has reviewed the




14:38:33 petition and finds the request consistent with

14:38:36 applicable City of Tampa land development regulations.

14:38:38 That concludes staff's presentation.

14:38:40 I'm available if you have any questions.

14:38:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just want to say in the history

14:38:44 of the world we have never had so many extra parking

14:38:47 spaces attached to a request.

14:38:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?

14:38:52 >> Timothy H. Powell, president of TSP Companies. Our

14:39:00 address is P.O. Box 1016, Tampa Florida 33601. I'm the

14:39:06 spokesperson for the applicant Pour house at Grand

14:39:10 Central, owners for the commercial tenant space,

14:39:13 address as previously mentioned.

14:39:17 It will be located in the ground floor.

14:39:19 I'll go ahead and show a site plan.

14:39:26 It will show you agent clearer the shaded area in the

14:39:29 northwest corner of the eastern building of Grand

14:39:31 Central.

14:39:34 As previously mentioned the current zoning of the

14:39:36 property is CD 3 which was previously approved by the

14:39:39 city under Z 03-121.

14:39:42 The Grand Central mixed use development was designed to




14:39:45 accommodate retail commercial uses of the use and size

14:39:49 as being applied for, all requiring considerations of

14:39:52 standards specifically parking, refuse and service

14:39:56 areas, utilities and drainage facilities are

14:39:58 incorporated in the existing Grand Central development

14:40:00 as incorporated into the previously approved zoning and

14:40:05 has been noted specifically on the special use site

14:40:07 plan that is part of this application.

14:40:12 Based on the city staff review and this presentation, I

14:40:15 respectfully request City Council approval, and we are

14:40:18 here to answer any questions you may have.

14:40:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that

14:40:24 would like to speak on item 86?

14:40:26 >> Move to close.

14:40:27 >> Second.

14:40:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to close.

14:40:29 All in favor say Aye.

14:40:30 Opposed, Nay.

14:40:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move an ordinance approving a

14:40:44 special use permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales,

14:40:47 small venue, making lawful the sale of beverages

14:40:49 containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight not more




14:40:53 than 14% by weight and wines regardless of alcoholic

14:40:57 content beer and wine 2(COP) for consumption on

14:41:00 premises and in sealed containers for consumption off

14:41:04 premises at or from that certain lot, plot, tract of

14:41:09 land located at 1208 East Kennedy Boulevard, unit 112,

14:41:13 Tampa, Florida, as more particularly described in

14:41:15 sections 2 hereof imposing certain conditions based

14:41:19 upon the location of the property, providing for repeal

14:41:21 of all ordinances, providing an effective date.

14:41:24 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.

14:41:27 (Motion carried).

14:41:28 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder and Scott

14:41:29 being absent.

14:41:31 Second reading of the ordinance will be held March

14:41:34 4th at 9:30 a.m.

14:41:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just wanted to say it's great to

14:41:39 see new businesses move into the Channel District.

14:42:05 >>LaCHONE DOCK: Land Development Coordination.

14:42:07 And I have been sworn.

14:42:07 The next item on the agenda is petition number V-10836

14:42:12 for property located at 420 south Jefferson street, 807

14:42:16 Eunice Avenue, and Channelside Drive.




14:42:19 Property is currently zoned CBD2 central business

14:42:22 district for use as a restaurant.

14:42:23 The proposed special use is alcoholic beverage sales,

14:42:26 large venue, 4(COP), which allows for the sale of

14:42:30 alcoholic beverages regardless of alcoholic content for

14:42:33 consumption on the premises, in sealed containers for

14:42:36 consumption off premises.

14:42:39 According to the affidavit submitted the use is an

14:42:41 existing restaurant.

14:42:42 The site was previously approved for a 4(COP).

14:42:45 The special use request is to extend the existing

14:42:49 Marriott an additional 2,275 square feet.

14:42:53 The site contains 24,609 square feet.

14:42:57 The special use will contain 7,828 square feet

14:43:01 consisting of 3,280 square feet indoor, and 4,548

14:43:07 square feet outdoor.

14:43:09 The site is located within the central business

14:43:12 district and the use of restaurant does not require

14:43:15 parking.

14:43:15 However, 29 parking spaces everybody provided.

14:43:21 And I have an aerial of the location.

14:43:28 This is the site located here in yellow on Channelside




14:43:30 across from the forum boarded with Nebraska to the

14:43:33 east, service centers to the west of the site, and this

14:43:37 is the area in blue for the proposed sale.

14:43:42 And there's a picture of the site.

14:43:48 This is the western end.

14:43:50 This is the area with the proposed addition.

14:43:53 This is the existing structure and then the outdoor

14:43:56 area.

14:44:00 This is another view of the west off of Jefferson.

14:44:08 That's another view, the south end of it.

14:44:10 And that's the east side of the site.

14:44:15 From Nebraska.

14:44:17 And that's another view of the entrance into the site.

14:44:21 One of the entrances off Nebraska.

14:44:23 The development review committee has reviewed the

14:44:27 petition and finds it inconsistent with applicable City

14:44:29 of Tampa land development regulations.

14:44:32 However, if the requested changes are made between

14:44:34 first and second reading the development review

14:44:36 committee will amend its determination and find the

14:44:39 petition with the exception of solid waste whose

14:44:42 findings are related to maneuvering in the royalty.




14:44:45 Council, I also handed out a site plan revision sheet.

14:44:48 It's entitled V-10-83 site plan revision sheet,

14:44:53 February 18, 2010, today's date on the sheet.

14:44:55 It has been provided to the petitioner.

14:44:57 The petitioner agrees to make the requested changes

14:44:59 between first and second reading.

14:45:02 And that concludes staff's presentation.

14:45:04 I'm available if you have any questions.

14:45:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: When an a existing business like

14:45:12 this comes in for an expansion, it doesn't appear that

14:45:16 this triggered any landscaping requirements.

14:45:24 Do landscaping requirements ever get triggered, or does

14:45:28 it have to be a greater percentage of investment or

14:45:30 change?

14:45:30 >>LaCHONE DOCK: Land development coordination.

14:45:34 In order for landscape to be reviewed in a special 2

14:45:38 use it is for new construction.

14:45:41 If it is an existing site it is reviewed for solid

14:45:44 waste and transportation.

14:45:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.

14:45:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?

14:45:47 >> Dixie liberty.




14:45:57 I'm the representative for Channelside.

14:45:59 I'm asking your approval to go ahead and put the deck

14:46:02 on the west side of the building.

14:46:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Will you repeat that?

14:46:09 Put what?

14:46:10 >> The deck.

14:46:11 The patio, the deck on the west side of the building.

14:46:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that

14:46:20 would like to speak on item 87?

14:46:28 >> Good afternoon.

14:46:29 Bob McDonaugh, economic development, City of Tampa.

14:46:33 The only concern that I have is that we have begun to

14:46:38 receive noise complaints in that neighborhood, and

14:46:40 having large outdoor deck with 4(COP) license which is

14:46:44 a allowed to remain open until 3:00 in the morning does

14:46:47 cause some concern.

14:46:48 I spoke with the representative, and she informed me

14:46:52 that currently the music is played inside.

14:46:54 They have an inside Bandstand so the music is inside.

14:46:59 I would ask council to consider their request about

14:47:02 having a large outdoor deck open till 3:00 in the

14:47:06 morning, about perhaps limiting live music to the




14:47:09 inside of the building, or limiting it till 12:00 or

14:47:13 something like that.

14:47:14 It could save us trouble in the long-term.

14:47:16 >> Mr. McDonaugh is correct.

14:47:29 We have received numerous complaints from the

14:47:30 neighborhood.

14:47:32 If you have been watching the news on television,

14:47:36 radio, newspapers and so forth, regarding properties, I

14:47:39 believe in concert with the Port Authority, they are

14:47:41 leased to the Channelside.

14:47:43 They are not paying the rent, as I recall.

14:47:48 All those things are paramount in the development of

14:47:50 some bigger picture.

14:47:53 Would you be willing to make some type of arrangements

14:47:57 for music and the loudness of those, you know, band

14:48:05 that is going to play there, how far the decibels go

14:48:08 and what the decibel range is going to be and so forth

14:48:10 and so on?

14:48:12 You are going to have to speak closer to the mike.

14:48:15 I lost my hair and I lost my hearing.

14:48:18 >> The gentleman that took over the building, he has

14:48:20 been having bands in there.




14:48:22 And it's not a very large band.

14:48:25 And as far as I know, Tampa police haven't had any

14:48:28 problems with anything like that.

14:48:32 It has not been brought to my attention, but I'm quite

14:48:37 sure that I can ask the owner of the property if that

14:48:42 would be okay if we put some times on there.

14:48:46 >> I agree with that.

14:48:48 I hope you can do that.

14:48:49 The outside venue is fine.

14:48:51 But the outside venue with music would be disastrous.

14:48:54 >> He's not putting --

14:48:56 >> I understand that.

14:48:57 That's what we are saying now but tomorrow he or she

14:48:59 may sell and somebody else may have a different idea

14:49:01 if, the zoning doesn't go with the owner, it goes with

14:49:06 the building for alcohol.

14:49:07 I hope you can understand that I'm not trying to be

14:49:09 harmful in any way.

14:49:10 I'm trying to be proactive.

14:49:12 But, at the same time, protection for those that live

14:49:15 near and around the building.

14:49:17 >> I understand that.




14:49:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So specifically, what we would like

14:49:21 is a commitment that if there is any outdoor music that

14:49:25 is over -- that it over at midnight, and that there's

14:49:29 in a outdoor amplifiers or loud speakers or anything

14:49:34 after mid night.

14:49:35 In other words, after midnight it's quiet on the deck.

14:49:38 >>> Okay.

14:49:42 >> And a question for legal.

14:49:44 Can you all write that onto the understanding of this

14:49:48 petition?

14:49:49 >>> That would make a site plan change between first

14:49:52 and second reading so we are trying to work out the

14:49:55 exact language.

14:49:56 >>GWEN MILLER: There would not be any music on the

14:49:58 deck, it would?

14:49:59 >> There could be music but required by midnight.

14:50:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want the record be that the

14:50:07 petitioner requested this.

14:50:08 >>> I'm just trying to go along with you.

14:50:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, I may have to go a along

14:50:15 against you then.

14:50:16 >>> Well, I can understand that they are having music




14:50:18 on the inside.

14:50:19 If we can have like a speaker or something like that up

14:50:21 until midnight, you know,.

14:50:25 They are not there seven days a week playing music.

14:50:28 I believe he's only there one day a week.

14:50:31IE MIRANDA: I understand that and I appreciate that but as

14:50:33 I stated earlier you and your owners may have the right

14:50:36 intent, but something happens, and somebody else finds

14:50:39 it, and they want to make a quick turnover, and then

14:50:42 everything rocks.

14:50:46 Not that I'm against rock music.

14:50:48 I don't want to get letters.

14:50:49 So we can go ahead and actually say that we can go

14:50:52 ahead and have music outside up until midnight.

14:50:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: An this will be worked out between

14:51:02 first and second reading.

14:51:04 >>> You can give the applicant an opportunity to speak

14:51:12 to her Clint because once it's done, it's going to be

14:51:14 done.

14:51:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.

14:51:17 Can we hold this, Madam Chair, to have that opportunity

14:51:19 to speak?




14:51:21 Thank you very much.

14:51:21 >>GWEN MILLER: We will go to number 88 while we are

14:51:30 waiting.

14:51:55 >>LaCHONE DOCK: Land Development Coordination.

14:51:57 And I have been sworn.

14:51:58 The next item on the agenda is petition number V-10-84

14:52:02 for the property located at 7201 North Boulevard.

14:52:07 I would like to point out on the staff report the date

14:52:09 of the site plan is listed as July 7, 2010, but the

14:52:13 date should be January 7th, 2010.

14:52:16 The current zoning of the property is PD planned

14:52:19 development for zoological park.

14:52:21 The proposed special use is for alcoholic beverage

14:52:23 sales, large venue, 4(COP-X), which allows for the sale

14:52:26 of beverages regardless of alcoholic content for

14:52:29 consumption on premises only.

14:52:31 The site contains 60.6 acres and has a currents

14:52:35 4(COP-X) designation which contains 24.3 acres.

14:52:40 Total area under this request contains 60.6 acres of

14:52:44 which the petitioner has imposed conditions to limit

14:52:46 the sale of alcoholic beverages in conjunction with the

14:52:49 use of a zoo.




14:52:51 In addition, the petitioner proposes to maintain the

14:52:53 current condition of no sales after 1 a.m.

14:52:59 And I have an aerial of the site.

14:53:05 This is the site bordered in yellow. Sligh is the

14:53:12 southern boundary.

14:53:15 And it's boarded with North Boulevard along the east.

14:53:21 There is a picture of the site.

14:53:30 That's from Sligh.

14:53:33 Another view of the site on Sligh.

14:53:40 North Boulevard.

14:53:50 Further north.

14:53:51 And another view.

14:53:56 The development review committee has reviewed the

14:53:59 petition and finds the request consistent with

14:54:01 applicable City of Tampa land development regulations.

14:54:04 That concludes staff's presentation.

14:54:05 I'm available if you have any questions.

14:54:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?

14:54:09 >>MARY MULHERN: She can answer.

14:54:19 I just want to know if it's the entire yellow border of

14:54:22 the property that you are asking for.

14:54:29 >>LaCHONE DOCK: Land Development Coordination.




14:54:31 And, no it is not the entire border.

14:54:34 There is a border that is in blue.

14:54:36 >>MARY MULHERN: Oh, the blue.

14:54:37 >> That is for the alcoholic beverage sales zoning.

14:54:41 >> So is it the little part?

14:54:43 >> The bigger part out here.

14:54:46 Actually this area.

14:54:48 >> It's most of the area, the blue area.

14:54:52 >>LaCHONE DOCK: This is not included.

14:54:56 And that's not included.

14:54:57 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.

14:55:00 You are not going to let the animals drink.

14:55:10 >> Grace Yang, Gray Robinson law firm, 201 North

14:55:16 Franklin Street, suite 2200 Tampa, Florida.

14:55:19 I have been sworn.

14:55:20 It's my pleasure this afternoon to appear on behalf of

14:55:22 the Lowry Park Zoo.

14:55:25 With me in the audience is Craig Pugh, the acting CEO

14:55:28 of the zoo and David Zimmerman the executive

14:55:34 vice-president and chief operating officer of the zoo.

14:55:37 As Ms. Dock has made in the presentation, the zoo has

14:55:41 an existing 4(COP-X) wet zoning that was approved back




14:55:46 in 1995, and that was only for about 20 acres.

14:55:50 The zoo has expanded since 1995 in acreage, and so we

14:55:54 are trying to have this new request approved to expand

14:55:58 that acreage, keep the 4(COP-X) use and expand the area

14:56:04 to cover this new area as the zoo has grown over the

14:56:08 years.

14:56:10 We have met with the local neighborhood association.

14:56:14 I'm pleased to report that the neighborhood association

14:56:16 is in support of this petition, and you should have a

14:56:19 copy of the letter of support in your agenda packet.

14:56:25 You should also have in your agenda packet a letter

14:56:28 that I filed last week trying to give you some

14:56:30 additional background about this particular property.

14:56:33 The zoo was granted by special act in the Florida

14:56:40 legislature a special liquor license in 1994 to be able

14:56:43 to have a liquor license placed at the zoo.

14:56:47 The special act clearly states that it must be tied to

14:56:50 different special events at the zoo, and so we are

14:56:53 continuing to operate and abide by that special act.

14:56:58 As Ms. Dock also mentioned we are agreeing to some

14:57:01 notes to tie it to a 1 a.m. sale closing for alcohol,

14:57:07 and the alcohol must be incidental to the zoological




14:57:11 park, which is operated by the Lowry Park zoological

14:57:16 society, a 501(c)3 original.

14:57:19 The ability to expand the acreage and to have this

14:57:21 4(COP-X) would allow the zoo to continue to generate

14:57:24 rental revenues, catering and food revenues to support

14:57:28 the overall operation of the zoo.

14:57:34 In my site plan, we had added a note to say that we

14:57:38 were going to tie the use back to the state law which

14:57:43 is the special act 94-464.

14:57:47 However, after some discussions with Ms. Kert from the

14:57:50 city attorney's office today, she is recommending that

14:57:53 we remove that note from the site plan.

14:57:58 We will have to continue to abide by the special act in

14:58:03 Florida, but to remove that particular note.

14:58:05 And if that is council's pleasure and direction, we

14:58:07 would appreciate your approval of the request.

14:58:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Pleasure of council members?

14:58:14 Is there anyone in the public that would like to speak

14:58:16 on item 88?

14:58:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.

14:58:21 >> Second.

14:58:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to close.




14:58:25 All in favor say Aye.

14:58:26 Opposed, Nay.

14:58:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move an ordinance repealing

14:58:36 ordinance 95-31 approving a special use permit S-2 for

14:58:40 alcoholic beverage sales, large venue, making lawful

14:58:43 the sale of beverages regardless of alcoholic content,

14:58:45 beer wind wine and liquor 4(COP-X) for consumption on

14:58:49 premises only at or from that certain lot, plot or

14:58:53 tract of land located at 7201 North Boulevard, Tampa,

14:58:57 Florida, as more particularly described in section 2

14:59:00 therefore, providing for repeal of all ordinances, an

14:59:05 conflict providing an effective date.

14:59:06 >> We have a motion and second.

14:59:08 Question?

14:59:08 >> Rebecca Kert, legal, with a clarification that they

14:59:12 will remove the note --

14:59:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Right.

14:59:17 Go back to the conditional one.

14:59:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

14:59:22 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder and Scott

14:59:26 being absent.

14:59:27 Second reading of the ordinance will be held March




14:59:30 4th at 9:30 a.m.

14:59:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 89.

15:00:15 >>LaCHONE DOCK: Land Development Coordination P.I have

15:00:16 been sworn.

15:00:16 The next item is the property located at 223 South

15:00:19 Howard Avenue.

15:00:20 The property is currently zoned CG commercial general.

15:00:23 The proposed special use is for alcoholic beverage

15:00:25 sales, small venue, 4(COP-R), which allows for the sale

15:00:29 of beverages regardless of alcoholic content for

15:00:32 consumption on the premises only.

15:00:34 According to the application, the existing use is a

15:00:36 restaurant.

15:00:37 The total area under this request is 1,681 square feet.

15:00:42 This request includes 1,664 square feet indoor area, 17

15:00:46 square feet outdoor area, parking required is 36

15:00:50 spaces.

15:00:53 It should be corrected on the staff report, 36 spaces

15:00:55 required instead of 20 and 10 spaces are being

15:00:58 provided.

15:00:59 A waiver has been requested.

15:01:03 And I have an aerial of the site.




15:01:08 And that's this site located in yellow.

15:01:13 Boarded with plant street to the south, Howard Avenue

15:01:16 would be the site, Moody Avenue the west, and the area

15:01:20 in blue is the small area where they are requesting on

15:01:26 the corner.

15:01:27 This is a picture of the site on Howard and Platt

15:01:30 looking northwest.

15:01:33 Another view of the site.

15:01:40 This is the west side of the site.

15:01:43 Another view of the site.

15:01:47 And this is the north end of the site.

15:01:49 And that's the parking.

15:01:53 The development review committee has reviewed the

15:01:55 petition and finds it inconsistent with applicable City

15:01:57 of Tampa land development regulations.

15:02:00 However, if the requested changes are made between

15:02:02 first and second reading, the development review

15:02:04 committee will amend the determination and find the

15:02:07 petition consistent with the exception of solid waste.

15:02:16 A revision sheet, site plan revision sheet dated

15:02:20 February 18th, 2010, and it has been provided to

15:02:23 the petitioner, and these are changes requested to be




15:02:26 made to the plan between first and second reading.

15:02:29 And that concludes staff's presentation.

15:02:31 I'm available if you have any questions.

15:02:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm reading this revision sheet you

15:02:40 provided us.

15:02:40 And it says that you are asking for a waiver of

15:02:44 reduction in parking from 36 to 10 spaces, and it says

15:02:50 that that's a 28% reduction.

15:02:53 That would be a several hundred percent reduction.

15:03:03 I'll bet you can figure this out.

15:03:05 From 36 to 10 is more than a 28% reduction.

15:03:15 So how do you not object to that dramatic a decrease?

15:03:25 >>LaCHONE DOCK: The site is this currently.

15:03:30 So it's not new development.

15:03:31 The site does exist.

15:03:33 And the petitioner is recognizing that requirement of

15:03:36 the 36 parking space was the waiver.

15:03:39 So transportation is recognizing the waiver.

15:03:45 It recognizes the shortage of the parking on the site.

15:03:47 >>GWEN MILLER: How many do they have?

15:03:53 Is it ten parking spaces?

15:03:55 >>LaCHONE DOCK: Ten parking spaces war they have now




15:03:58 that are valid parking spaces per code.

15:04:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.

15:04:02 I knew that map was wrong.

15:04:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Do they have parking somewhere else?

15:04:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: In other words, this is a

15:04:13 miswriting.

15:04:13 It more than 28%.

15:04:15 It's 64%?

15:04:17 >>LaCHONE DOCK: Yes.

15:04:24N THORNTON: Transportation.

15:04:25 It was a typo. It's a 72% reduction.

15:04:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's right!

15:04:30 Okay, thank you.

15:04:34 I knew it was more than 28.

15:04:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner.

15:04:42 >> Tom Ortiz. 223 S. Howard Avenue.

15:04:45 With regards to the parking, this was an existing

15:04:48 restaurant.

15:04:48 It was Strings, has been wet zoned two different

15:04:51 occasions.

15:04:52 The last wet zoning was in '06 when it was a 2(COP-R)

15:04:56 and it was the same site plan and the same square




15:04:58 footage so there was no increase in the square footage

15:05:01 of the parcel or the wet zoning.

15:05:03 There is a request to change the wet zoning from a

15:05:06 2(COP-R) to a 4(COP-R), and our request change is

15:05:11 during the week there was misinformation given to the

15:05:16 petitioner at the time, and he requested 8:00 closing

15:05:19 from Sunday -- actually closed all day on Sunday,

15:05:22 Monday through Thursday, 8 p.m., and 1 a.m. on the

15:05:25 weekend, and unfortunately he was unable to achieve his

15:05:28 sales goals and closed.

15:05:31 So we are asking for 11:00 closing during the week

15:05:34 Sunday through Thursday and 1 a.m. on the weekends.

15:05:38 In addition to that, we do have a number of off-site

15:05:43 parking availabilities to us.

15:05:45 We own a bunch of -- a number of different restaurants

15:05:48 and bars in the area.

15:05:50 Currently, we have over 972 parking spaces that we

15:05:54 lease, own or operate in the area.

15:05:56 And the last, all the parking spaces that we had, and

15:06:07 at that time we had we have parking that we lease all

15:06:12 the way from CVS and block bust ter all the way through

15:06:15 to Kennedy Boulevard.




15:06:20 We have assistance

15:06:45 I gave you the history of the site.

15:06:47 It was zoned as a restaurant.

15:06:49 Actually since 04 that it's been a restaurant.

15:06:51 So there was no increases in square footage.

15:06:55 To date.

15:06:56 There was some concern with the outside parking, or

15:06:59 outside.

15:07:04 If you look at the site plan, what has happened is that

15:07:06 the wet zoned surveyor, the corner doorway is cut back

15:07:14 at the property line so if you take the corner Darway

15:07:17 that's the 17 feet that is outside that is being

15:07:19 included in the wet zoning.

15:07:20 And we have no problem with removing that in between

15:07:23 the first and second reading and bringing it back to

15:07:25 the actual doorway itself.

15:07:27 And then there would be no outside seating what -- no

15:07:30 outside area being wet zoned at all we plan on any

15:07:38 outside application or sound or anything.

15:07:46 I would like to introduce to you Tony Parker, if you

15:07:56 want to come up here.

15:07:57 >> My name is Tony Balank, third generation born and




15:08:09 raised in Tampa.

15:08:10 My grandfather owned and operate add barbershop on the

15:08:12 adjacent corner from the restaurant location for about

15:08:14 30 years.

15:08:16 It's been a life-long childhood dream of mine to open

15:08:19 my own restaurant and operate as a chef.

15:08:22 I graduated from the Florida culinary institute in West

15:08:24 Palm Beach.

15:08:25 For the past ten years working with Roys restaurant

15:08:28 doing fine dining, and broken off to do my own thing.

15:08:33 The reason we need the zoning change is we need to be

15:08:36 competitive and able to -- cocktails for our guests.

15:08:44 I have been in the restaurant business for over 15

15:08:46 years, I have seen a lot of things change.

15:08:49 The restaurants with full liquor have a better bottom

15:08:51 line and are more successful.

15:08:54 After working for ten years I have a great

15:08:56 understanding of the importance our goal is to do over

15:09:10 50% of foot sale.

15:09:11 Our goal, because we want to be a restaurant that

15:09:14 serves alcohol, not a bar that serve it food.

15:09:16 I really feel that in that area there's enough bars and




15:09:19 night clubs already.

15:09:20 And I want to add to the great restaurants that are

15:09:22 down in that area.

15:09:28 There was a request from the neighbors regarding three

15:09:36 concerns brought to our attention.

15:09:38 And one was patron noise in the parking lot.

15:09:41 Of what we have done to address that concern is that we

15:09:43 are going to have an attendant work the parking lot, to

15:09:47 park our vehicles and to curb any type of noise that

15:09:50 may come from our patrons, if there be any.

15:09:53 In addition to that, there was a question with regards

15:09:56 to litter in the parking lot or anything of that

15:09:59 nature.

15:09:59 We will have our cleaning team police the adjacent

15:10:02 properties as well as our properties themselves.

15:10:05 And then odor from the dumpster was a concern and we

15:10:08 have agreed to have the dumpster basically contracted

15:10:12 to be pulled every single day, which the city pulls six

15:10:17 days a week, a six-day operation.

15:10:19 So we have tried to address any concerns that have been

15:10:21 brought forth to our attention thus far and we are

15:10:23 willing to continue to address any concerns that




15:10:26 council or the neighbors may have.

15:10:28 And we are restricted by the time limit as requested by

15:10:31 council at previous hearings to 11 p.m. during the week

15:10:34 and 1 a.m. on the weekends.

15:10:36 And here is a site plan of the restaurant itself, the

15:10:42 layout.

15:10:43 You can see that the bar area, if my math is correct,

15:10:48 less than -- you can see the bar area here which is a

15:10:54 total of 130 square feet.

15:10:57 The restaurant itself is 1600 square feet.

15:10:59 So it's less than 8% of the overall restaurant.

15:11:02 It's more of a glorified service bar than it is an

15:11:05 actual hang-out bar.

15:11:20 There's a gentleman right behind us that's

15:11:21 catter-corner in the blue house.

15:11:23 He signed the petition as well as the neighbors to the

15:11:25 left, adjacent to the parking lot, which is an

15:11:29 apartment complex.

15:11:30 Complex.

15:11:31 They are in support as well with.

15:11:35 I would like to submit these as soon as possible.

15:11:40 Does council have any questions?




15:11:47 SAUL-SENA: On the petition it talks about 17 outdoor --

15:11:51 there's an outdoor area?

15:11:53 >>> No, ma'am, I apologize.

15:11:54 That's 17 square feet.

15:11:56 You can see it on the plan here.

15:11:58 You see how the doorway is cut back.

15:12:00 >> That's it?

15:12:02 >> Actually we are willing to remove that if necessary

15:12:05 or put it in writing that we will not have any outdoor

15:12:07 seating or any outdoor sound.

15:12:09 What happened is that the surveyor took the property

15:12:11 line and squared it.

15:12:13 And did not take into account because the door was cut

15:12:15 back.

15:12:16 It's actually 17 square feet.

15:12:17 >> Did you have a chance to see a letter from Toni.

15:12:23 >> They voted in favor of the wet zoning.

15:12:36 Now there were some neighbors who were opposed to it.

15:12:39 We only got one e-mail of the neighbor, and she's here

15:12:43 today, and we addressed those three concerns that I

15:12:47 listed to you.

15:12:48 But on the than that, we have not heard anything on the




15:12:50 than the general concerns of no more wet zonings in the

15:12:54 neighborhood or too many other customers or anything of

15:12:57 that nature.

15:12:57 >> I will ask our attorney to make a copy.

15:13:02 But this is very specifically talking about -- closing

15:13:10 time.

15:13:10 >>GWEN MILLER: That concludes it?

15:13:14 >>> Yes, ma'am, unless you have other questions.

15:13:15 >> Is there anyone in the public that wants to speak on

15:13:18 item 89?

15:13:31 >> Walter Crumbley.

15:13:33 I'm the president of Courier City Oscawana homeowners

15:13:37 association.

15:13:41 We did have a vote 10-6 in favor of this proposal.

15:13:52 >> Next speaker?

15:13:52 >> Good afternoon.

15:13:59 My name is Greg Root. I live at 212 South Moody

15:14:02 Avenue.

15:14:03 My address is Moody Avenue the address is actually

15:14:12 located between moody and Platt.

15:14:14 I'm actually diagonally across from the property,

15:14:17 diagonally across from the dumpster.




15:14:20 I sent an e-mail to each of you the on the morning

15:14:24 outlining my primary objections and concerns.

15:14:27 I hope everybody received that, had an opportunity to

15:14:30 look at it.

15:14:31 I did get a couple of e-mail responses back from

15:14:33 several of the administrative aides indicating that

15:14:36 they had received it, but not from all of them.

15:14:43 The presentation that was made at the neighborhood

15:14:45 association meeting also indicated that the liquor

15:14:48 sales would start at 7:00 in the morning, would be

15:14:52 7 a.m. to 11 p.m.

15:14:54 Sunday through Thursday.

15:14:57 7 a.m. till 1 a.m.

15:14:59 On Friday and Saturday.

15:15:02 And I'm very concerned about the potential for noise

15:15:05 problem, potential for unruly patrons at the end of the

15:15:11 day, concerned about speeding up and down the alley,

15:15:13 people leaving the establishment, concerned about noise

15:15:17 with trash being thrown out, especially bottles in the

15:15:20 dumpster towards the end of the night, after closing.

15:15:24 It was my understanding that there were some other

15:15:27 waivers that were being requested in addition to the




15:15:30 parking lot waiver regarding minimum, which required

15:15:35 separations from other businesses selling alcohol,

15:15:43 versus the standard.

15:15:44 Minimum separation from residential land uses, 54.5

15:15:48 feet versus the current standard of 1,000.

15:15:50 And minimum separation from institutional uses, 460

15:15:56 versus the current standard of 1,000.

15:16:01 Those standards are in place for a reason.

15:16:04 Certain establishments, certain areas, sensitive land

15:16:10 use areas.

15:16:11 And I think if all these waivers were approved, it

15:16:18 would be a travesty.

15:16:20 As a matter of fact I don't think you would need to

15:16:22 have minimum separation standards anymore if you are

15:16:24 going to reduce them that far down.

15:16:28 And I happen to be one of the people that we feel that

15:16:31 we have enough of these establishments in the South

15:16:35 Tampa area.

15:16:37 At least 15 come to mind.

15:16:41 Drynk, Mangroves, MacDintons, Cheap, the Dubliner, the

15:16:46 Lodge, Port Kennedy, Hyde Park cafe, the Rack, 717

15:16:50 south, Bella's, and the Wine Exchange, just to name a




15:16:56 few.

15:16:57 So I think South Howard, and I think Platt is pretty

15:16:59 much saturated already.

15:17:03 South Tampa is a residential area first and foremost.

15:17:07 Not an entertainment district.

15:17:08 Not an extension of Ybor.

15:17:10 And I would like to see it.

15:17:14 I strongly urge you to vote no on this petition.

15:17:17 Thank you for your time.

15:17:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker.

15:17:20 >>> Good afternoon.

15:17:28 I have not been sworn.

15:17:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Did anyone else come in that needs to

15:17:32 be sworn?

15:17:33 Would you please raise your right hand?

15:17:34 (Oath administered by Clerk)

15:17:35 My name is Linda Crumbley.

15:17:45 I live at 503 south Westland Avenue.

15:17:48 That is one street over from Howard Avenue.

15:17:51 And two blocks from this establishment.

15:18:00 I supposed it.

15:18:01 I did not vote to have a wet zone here.




15:18:03 I opposed because we have been trying since we moved

15:18:07 into this neighborhood to fill this neighborhood back

15:18:09 to a quality neighborhood.

15:18:12 I lived on Davis Island before.

15:18:14 I moved here.

15:18:15 We had made great strides in this neighborhood.

15:18:19 When I moved to my home on Westland, we had crack

15:18:25 houses still available out there.

15:18:29 They were houses that had been just not cared for.

15:18:33 We had done everything to try to bring this

15:18:36 neighborhood together as a real neighborhood.

15:18:43 The noise at nighttime is deafening.

15:18:47 The young people come in.

15:18:49 They are not all neighbors that go to these

15:18:51 establishments.

15:18:55 They are bussed in.

15:18:56 They are coming in just droves.

15:18:58 The problem with it is that they are not courteous to

15:19:06 the homeowners.

15:19:07 We wake up in the morning.

15:19:08 We have plenty of trash in our yards.

15:19:09 We have assorted things.




15:19:13 They have broken down bushes and torn up your yard or

15:19:16 whatever.

15:19:18 They just abuse the neighborhood when they are drunk.

15:19:21 I will tell you that in the last month, in the middle

15:19:25 of the night at 2:30 in the morning, my doorbell rings.

15:19:30 We go to the door, and there is a woman, a young woman

15:19:34 who is leaning against the door.

15:19:37 And we open the door, and she was completely drunk.

15:19:46 There was a young couple who had walked with her

15:19:49 because she said, I live here.

15:19:52 I said, she does not live here.

15:19:54 She didn't even know who those people were.

15:19:57 I'm asking you to please deny this.

15:19:58 I'm sure this young man can do a great job in a

15:20:02 restaurant, but we do not need any more hard liquor to

15:20:05 be sold.

15:20:06 A good restaurant can stand on its own with beer and

15:20:10 wine.

15:20:11 And I ask you to please deny this.

15:20:14 And this letter ... thank you, City Council.

15:20:27 I appreciate your time.

15:20:28 Thank you.




15:20:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Go ahead.

15:20:57 >> I'm Michael Yustick, 305 south Melville, and I have

15:21:04 been sworn in.

15:21:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can you speak a little louder,

15:21:06 please?

15:21:06 >>> Yes.

15:21:07 Included in the information I handed you is a copy of

15:21:10 the letter that I dropped off yesterday.

15:21:12 I don't know if you got a chance to be read it but it

15:21:15 there for you.

15:21:16 As well as a listing of the bars and restaurants on

15:21:19 South Howard and a map of the area.

15:21:24 I have composed a listing of all the closing times of

15:21:29 all the bars and restaurants on South Howard.

15:21:33 And if we go from Bayshore, working our way northward

15:21:38 toward Platt Street, you will notice that with the

15:21:42 exception of bell A's, all these restaurants close by

15:21:51 midnight on Friday and Saturday.

15:21:53 It's not until we cross over onto Swann that things

15:21:56 become a little more active.

15:21:59 The three that are open till 4:00, the Jimmy John, the

15:22:04 pizza place, and the pita pit.




15:22:08 As far as I know they do not have liquor licenses but

15:22:10 are serving food catering to the crowds.

15:22:14 Once you approach Azeele, that's when things become a

15:22:18 little more interesting and a little chaotic.

15:22:23 This listing showing that every place on here, with the

15:22:27 exception of Choi and Tijuana flats close at 3 a.m. on

15:22:36 Friday and Saturday, and some also close at 3 a.m.

15:22:39 during the week as well.

15:22:44 The map that I provided highlights these

15:22:47 establishments, and also the rezoning requests.

15:22:54 As you can see, there are ten bars, restaurants, within

15:23:00 a block and a half of the proposed site.

15:23:05 Anyone wishing to have a cocktail, all they have to do

15:23:08 is walk across the street in any one direction.

15:23:17 The problem I have with another bar, restaurant, is

15:23:19 that Howard Avenue and Platt Street has become the

15:23:23 party district.

15:23:23 We have drunks up and down Howard and back and forth on

15:23:28 Platt Street screaming and hollering all hours of the

15:23:30 night.

15:23:32 I can tell you when it's 3:00 in the morning without

15:23:34 ever having to look at alarm clock, I cannot keep my




15:23:38 windows open any longer and I have to sleep with an air

15:23:42 purifier next to my bed in order to drown out the

15:23:45 noise.

15:23:46 This area already has a high concentration of

15:23:50 establishments that serve alcohol already.

15:23:52 I don't see where it's necessary to add yet another.

15:23:56 We have enough problems with the ones that exist now.

15:24:02 So I urge to you deny the rezoning request.

15:24:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.

15:24:07 Next.

15:24:17 >> My name is Virginia Blanca.

15:24:24 My husband, it's not so much about -- waited tables for

15:24:29 a lot of years and you can get drunk off beer and wine

15:24:32 just as much as you can get drunk off liquor.

15:24:36 It's not trying to get people intoxicated.

15:24:39 He's serving more food than he is liquor which is part

15:24:41 of his -- I guess his license.

15:24:45 But his concept is the family plan.

15:24:51 Families can come in and eat.

15:24:52 I don't know if they give you a copy of the menu, and

15:24:54 actually don't think I have a copy of the menu, but all

15:24:57 of the food portions are based on children to FAMU --




15:25:03 family-style meals.

15:25:05 He's not trying to indicator any more drinking on that

15:25:07 corner.

15:25:08 I think when he saw the location he wasn't aware

15:25:10 that -- he had been looking for three or four month and

15:25:15 was actually looking in Tampa first, and he found this

15:25:17 location, and then right across diagonally opened up a

15:25:21 bar with a 3 a.m. license.

15:25:22 We are not looking to stay open that late.

15:25:24 The reason he wants the 1 a.m. license is in case

15:25:27 there's a special event, maybe a catered event for

15:25:29 parties, an anniversary, an council dinner, doesn't

15:25:32 want to kick people out at 11:00 during the weekends.

15:25:38 He would be closed on Mondays but it's pretty much

15:25:40 dinner hours.

15:25:41 The 7:00 is in case we do a luncheon special, maybe a

15:25:46 company breakfast or things that go on during the

15:25:48 holiday.

15:25:48 A lot of people do brunches and lunches now as opposed

15:25:52 to dinner because it's less expensive and more

15:25:54 economical so that's where the 7:00 comes from.

15:25:57 The drunks that come from the Hyde Park cafe sit on the




15:26:01 corner and -- it's not going to be that kind of scene.

15:26:03 So I understand everyone's concerns about the noise.

15:26:08 But regardless of whether he has a liquor license or

15:26:11 beer and wine license, people that drink to get drunk

15:26:13 are going to get drunk.

15:26:14 And they are going to be early and that's just the way

15:26:17 they are.

15:26:18 I don't think it has anything to do with the

15:26:19 establishment or once the people leave, you can only do

15:26:23 so much to control them.

15:26:24 And everyone kind of their own individual.

15:26:26 And that's all I have to say.

15:26:27 Thank you.

15:26:27 >> Nicholas, 223 S. Howard. I am a partner in the

15:26:27 Brick restaurant. I'm also a chef. I worked with Tony

15:26:44 for quite a long time.

15:26:45 And I really want to address that I sympathize with the

15:26:49 people in the area, you know, the problems that they

15:26:51 have with the late night, the wild noises, litter and

15:26:55 everything.

15:26:56 Coming that area, we want to help that situation.

15:27:00 We want people to try to collaborate and make this a




15:27:02 better area we don't want just a good restaurant.

15:27:12 We want a great restaurant.

15:27:14 You know what I mean?

15:27:15 We want to get together with everybody and make it

15:27:18 work.

15:27:18 We are not trying to enhance people getting drunk or

15:27:21 another place for them to get drink.

15:27:22 It's all about the food.

15:27:24 That's what we are about.

15:27:25 And that zoning will definitely help us be more

15:27:29 successful.

15:27:29 It definitely will.

15:27:32 That's pretty much what I have.

15:27:33 Thank you.

15:27:33 >> My name is Mike Gonzalez.

15:27:48 This is a restaurant that has a bar.

15:27:51 Not a bar that serves bar food.

15:27:54 And I hope that you approve it.

15:27:56 Thank you.

15:28:07 Just like you say, I have known Mr. Ortiz for a long

15:28:11 time.

15:28:12 In fact I graduated from Jefferson.




15:28:14 He was a couple years behind me.

15:28:15 And everything he does has been first class.

15:28:17 What you have here before you is a situation where you

15:28:20 have an existing building that was previously wet

15:28:22 zoned.

15:28:23 And whether we leave that as an eyesore or we let them

15:28:27 enhance that in an area that where the times are

15:28:32 changeable as maybe not 1:00 or 12:00, and maybe the

15:28:35 7 a.m., just in case -- for the ability to sell liquor

15:28:41 may be a concern.

15:28:42 Other than that, we have a restaurant here with a small

15:28:44 bar.

15:28:44 You have an existing eyesore on Howard.

15:28:47 And you have a legitimate husband and wife that are

15:28:50 going to work this restaurant and do everything they

15:28:52 can to make it first-class in the area.

15:28:55 I respectfully request that you approve this request.

15:28:57 God bless you.

15:28:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anybody else like to speak?

15:29:00 >> My name is Richard champion.

15:29:07 I own the Irish public located very close to actually

15:29:13 within eyesight of my back door.




15:29:17 The Irish pub serves beer, wine and food.

15:29:21 We everybody there nine years now and since we have

15:29:23 been open this council has forced us into a position

15:29:27 where we are competing with $10 all you can drink on a

15:29:31 Friday, college girls drink free 10 p.m. to 1 a.m.

15:29:36 Tuesday and Thursday, in Hyde Park cafe.

15:29:39 Kennedy, from 12 a.m. to 1 a.m. on Thursday.

15:29:45 It's impossible for me to compete in this market.

15:29:48 Part of the zoning requires that you basically

15:29:52 disregard the thousand foot rule in favor of the

15:29:55 60-foot rule.

15:29:58 Possibly it's too late as it is.

15:30:00 If you add more to this mix that's already something

15:30:05 akin to bourbon street down there on the weekends, the

15:30:09 residents, I feel for them, the business owners like

15:30:12 myself who have been there for many years, and are

15:30:14 being forced out because liquor sales and -- you can't

15:30:19 sell food when your neighbors are selling all you can

15:30:23 drink for ten dollars.

15:30:25 As much as this husband and wife team might have the

15:30:27 greatest intentions, I would ask you to think of the

15:30:30 tavern which started off as an Italian restaurant and




15:30:34 had great intentions and is now, you know, it's now a

15:30:38 bar.

15:30:39 There is nothing to stop this concept being turned into

15:30:44 basically a mirror image of that,.

15:30:53 The residents in the area, I feel for them.

15:30:55 I sympathize with them.

15:30:56 I talked to Mr. Crumbley.

15:30:58 And other people down there.

15:30:59 And apologized for the fact that we are in this

15:31:02 situation.

15:31:03 And I believe this council has created this down there.

15:31:07 And ultimately, I have a $12,000 a month rent to pay,

15:31:14 and I have got to pay it or go under.

15:31:16 So we are forced to stray away from our original

15:31:21 concept which is basically a good local family pub, and

15:31:24 now we have to compete with everybody selling liquor

15:31:27 next door.

15:31:27 College kids come in for ten dollars. Drinking.

15:31:30 Getting turned out, coming into our establishment,

15:31:30 breaking up our furniture, punching holes in our walls.

15:31:30 We have to hire extra security just to keep those out.

15:31:47 You add more liquor you will increase the problem.




15:31:49 >> Petitioner?

15:31:49 >> If I may address a couple of the concerns.

15:31:53 First, and foremost, we have sat in every neighborhood

15:31:58 meeting since we moved in.

15:32:00 We have requested multiple times to set up a committee

15:32:02 with the neighborhoods, where the businesses and the

15:32:04 neighbors would sit down on a month to month basis and

15:32:07 address the concerns of the neighborhoods.

15:32:09 Till this day, no one has showed up and given us that

15:32:11 opportunity.

15:32:12 We are forced to sit in a neighborhood meeting only

15:32:16 another business neighborhood relationship to be

15:32:19 cultivated.

15:32:20 So we definitely appreciate the concerns and we have

15:32:22 nothing but the intentions to develop that neighborhood

15:32:25 to like Mrs. Crumbly said to a working neighborhood for

15:32:30 all.

15:32:30 It is a business/residential neighborhood.

15:32:33 That's what the development is.

15:32:35 This particular location has been a restaurant since

15:32:37 '04.

15:32:39 It's not something that we are asking for a new zoning




15:32:41 or a new request.

15:32:43 It was licensed as a 2(COP-R).

15:32:45 We are asking for a 4(COP-R).

15:32:47 With regards to the 7 a.m., you know, I apologize, but

15:32:51 I'm disappointed that they would not mention we were

15:33:02 requested to put the exact hours we were open.

15:33:04 Tony wanted to do breakfast.

15:33:05 So you are only allowed to operate what is stated on

15:33:08 the wet zone survey.

15:33:11 We put down 7 a.m. we would like to open for breakfast

15:33:14 at some time, not serve liquor, but we had to write

15:33:17 down that we be open till 7 a.m.

15:33:19 And we are open till 7 a.m. for breakfast.

15:33:21 To take that out of context and say we were going to

15:33:24 open at 7 and start serving liquor I think is not

15:33:27 proper, and I apologize.

15:33:28 I'm disappointed that that was taken that way.

15:33:31 In addition to the bottles, we were told that we could

15:33:33 go ahead and do a recycling bin which would curb any

15:33:38 cost with us dumping bottles late night.

15:33:40 We were happy to do that.

15:33:42 In addition to addressing the parking and the noise and




15:33:44 so forth, again, we need the neighbors to be willing to

15:33:48 sit down and work with us on a regular basis and

15:33:50 address those problems and let's find a common way that

15:33:52 we are going to work together.

15:33:56 But addressing those concerns, those are all places,

15:33:58 outdoor patio areas.

15:34:00 We have them.

15:34:01 This is an indoor restaurant only.

15:34:03 There's no outdoor seating whatsoever, and none

15:34:06 intended to be. So we don't feel we are going to have

15:34:08 those issues.

15:34:09 Plus we are closing two hours before everyone else.

15:34:11 And on the weekdays, four hours before, or five hours

15:34:16 before everybody else.

15:34:16 With regards to the time zones that Michael had brought

15:34:20 forth, again, I apologize.

15:34:22 I am not going to through go through each one.

15:34:24 But what he listed were the last seating times of a

15:34:26 number of these restaurant.

15:34:28 I'll give you two in specific.

15:34:29 Bern's and SideBern's.

15:34:31 Their last seating times are 11:00.




15:34:34 But I called specific Bern's and said, what time do you

15:34:38 close?

15:34:39 And they said we'll stay open till 3 a.m. if a patron

15:34:42 wants to stay open and they are buying food and

15:34:45 beverage.

15:34:45 So yes, their seat times are eleven or 12 but that's

15:34:49 not when they lock the door doors.

15:34:51 That's the last time they see people.

15:34:52 We would like to have our last seating between 11 and

15:34:55 12 and close by 1.

15:34:56 Last call 12:30.

15:34:58 So we are not out of concept with the restaurants in

15:35:01 the neighborhood.

15:35:01 In fact we are very much a part of that.

15:35:14 I can send you a quote from Walter Crumbley who

15:35:17 requested why I had not done anything with regards to

15:35:20 noise coming from the Governor, and what I am going to

15:35:23 do about it.

15:35:23 I'm no longer the land Lord of the governor.

15:35:29 The governor has a Wednesday night all you can drink.

15:35:32 So again, let stay true to what the issues are,

15:35:36 specifically viable restaurant space, 1600 square feet,




15:35:39 it's going to close at 11 during the week, it's going

15:35:42 to close at 1 a.m. on the weekends, it is a 51-49.

15:35:48 There is no outside noise whatsoever.

15:35:50 I can walk any person who wishes to take the walk with

15:35:53 me, that I am 982 park spots in the neighborhood.

15:35:58 I think we have a addressed everything we can and still

15:36:00 willing to go the extra mile.

15:36:01 Anything that we can do to support the neighbors, we

15:36:03 are there for.

15:36:04 But to shut everybody down because there's some bad

15:36:08 apples in the neighborhood is unfair to those of us who

15:36:10 get around for 14-plus years.

15:36:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question.

15:36:16 You mentioned this great number of parking spaces.

15:36:19 But those obviously aren't all for the petition before

15:36:21 us.

15:36:22 What are the other establishments that are served by

15:36:25 those parking spaces?

15:36:27 >>> We actually -- all the establishments in the

15:36:31 neighborhood, but we ours ohs have four.

15:36:34 We have Hyde Park cafe, the Kennedy, and then the BRIC.

15:36:39 So all four restaurants would be the ones that have the




15:36:42 sole rights to those.

15:36:44 But we actually allow everyone to park in those parking

15:36:48 spaces.

15:36:50 Again for the neighborhood.

15:36:51 If I was to tell you that I was the premiere business

15:36:53 person in the neighborhood who led the charge on

15:36:56 permanent parking alongside with the neighborhood

15:37:00 association, because I agree there is a huge problem in

15:37:02 the neighborhood with parking in the neighborhood.

15:37:03 How to curb that?

15:37:04 Put the permits in place, force everybody out and force

15:37:08 the parking in the parking lot that we have been

15:37:10 renting and leasing for five or six years.

15:37:12 And that was something we brought forth in '06.

15:37:15 So we are very pro neighborhood.

15:37:18 This isn't something we are trying to come in and just

15:37:20 take over.

15:37:20 We want to work with the neighbors.

15:37:22 I can't help but some of the other businesses are

15:37:25 choosing not to.

15:37:26 (Bell sounds).

15:37:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Other questions by council members?




15:37:34 Motion and second to close.

15:37:35 All in favor of the motion say Aye.

15:37:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, I don't know where this is

15:37:43 going, Madam Chair.

15:37:45 I can say that Mr. Blanko hasn't done anything.

15:37:49 I understand the concerns of both sides here.

15:37:51 I understand the individuals who are coming here in

15:37:54 good faith.

15:37:55 And I would be in their same shoes saying that I can't

15:37:59 sleep but two and a half hours Friday night when I have

15:38:02 to get up for Saturday, and about the drunks.

15:38:05 And about the lady knocking on the door.

15:38:08 There's so many things that are going there.

15:38:10 And it's true.

15:38:11 This is not an entertainment district.

15:38:13 This is a neighborhood district that's saturated with

15:38:19 neighborhoods.

15:38:21 I would be not following the rules appropriately.

15:38:31 This is a 4(COP-R), and being addressed with some of

15:38:36 these other e-mails and letters that I get is a 4(COP),

15:38:39 so there's a distinction of concern of businesses, and

15:38:44 some writings that I received.




15:38:46 I can say that we need to have more concentration of

15:38:53 those that come out at 1:30, 2:00, 3:00 drunk.

15:39:00 If we can have the least preference and presence for

15:39:03 Gasparilla, then they did one heck of a job.

15:39:08 We can send -- we can ask.

15:39:11 Let me rephrase.

15:39:12 I can't say anybody do anything.

15:39:15 Neither can the rest of us.

15:39:16 We can ask and I'm sure we can receive, and I noticed

15:39:20 one thing.

15:39:24 When something like this happens, as the presence and

15:39:31 they do their job right and they give out a couple

15:39:33 hundred tickets and couple hundred arrest for drunk

15:39:35 driving, as soon as they see you coming out and get

15:39:37 much in that car they can ticket you.

15:39:40 As soon as you start that engine, I guess.

15:39:43 It would change not only those that are going in with

15:39:50 the intent to get drunk.

15:39:51 You know, some people it takes three or four drinks to

15:39:53 get drunk.

15:39:54 Others who are already drunk only take one drink.

15:40:14 Years back when I was in the restaurant business I




15:40:15 never stayed open past 10:00 at night because I don't

15:40:18 care, I had to have two cooks, a dishwasher, and a

15:40:26 night crew, and that was PEPE.

15:40:32 I was a small minority partner there.

15:40:34 But I want to see this go forward on one side.

15:40:38 On the other side I want to see some restrictions.

15:40:41 And we didn't discuss that.

15:40:43 And I understand the restaurant business.

15:41:03 There's about six or search that do serve alcohol till

15:41:06 3:00 in the morning.

15:41:08 But I have compassion for the people who live close by.

15:41:12 So I'm asking for a little help to get this thing off

15:41:18 center, and I don't know if the petitioner is willing

15:41:22 to say, listen, instead of 1:00, I'm willing to go

15:41:27 Sunday through Thursday at 11 and Friday and Saturday

15:41:32 till 12 and see how that goes.

15:41:38 A young man for ten year at Roy, and -- it's something

15:41:45 that's imperative to see something happen.

15:41:48 And I know the corner.

15:41:49 And I remember the guy, the gentleman, I should say,

15:41:52 not guy, the gentleman who owned beans and strings.

15:41:55 He accused council for him closing.




15:42:00 I didn't make that agreement to close at 8:00.

15:42:02 I wasn't with even on council.

15:42:04 But the colleagues that were here were responsible for

15:42:06 that.

15:42:07 He himself made that so I'm saying he's blaming us?

15:42:22 Throws something wrong or he bought the operation

15:42:23 without knowing what the restrictions were.

15:42:25 One of the two.

15:42:26 So it's not the City Council that put the restrictions

15:42:29 on him that closed that restaurant.

15:42:33 He himself without doing the due diligence.

15:42:36 So I'm looking for some help here from council members.

15:42:38 >>MARY MULHERN: This is my neighborhood.

15:42:45 I'm lucky enough that I don't live close enough to

15:42:48 Howard that I have noise problem or a problem from the

15:42:50 patrons.

15:42:53 But it hags absolutely changed the character of this

15:42:56 neighborhood, all of the liquor sales there.

15:42:59 There's no doubt about it.

15:43:02 And it mostly families with kids who live around there,

15:43:07 besides the houses, and we just don't go to Howard

15:43:12 anymore.




15:43:13 We lost our grocery store.

15:43:16 I'm not saying this is the fault of restaurants and

15:43:18 bars.

15:43:18 But the whole character of that neighborhood has

15:43:21 changed.

15:43:24 And it's no implication of anyone bringing in, you

15:43:28 know, the patrons who want to open a restaurant.

15:43:32 It's the fact that enough is enough.

15:43:34 We don't need anymore liquor sales.

15:43:37 We need -- we would love -- I would love to have a

15:43:40 restaurant that I would want to actually walk to,

15:43:42 because you are in walking distance from my house.

15:43:44 But I am never going to walk there at 11:00 at night,

15:43:48 and, you know, I am never going to take my kids there

15:43:51 because of the character of the street.

15:43:53 So what has happened is our residential neighborhood

15:43:55 has turned into Ybor.

15:43:59 That whole block of Howard.

15:44:04 We can now get a tattoo, I noticed the other day.

15:44:07 >> Are you going to get it?

15:44:13 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't know.

15:44:14 And it can also, because there's so much liquor there,




15:44:18 we have got food vendors, and showing up selling

15:44:24 hotdogs because people are hungry and need to eat.

15:44:29 So I would like to see this restaurant.

15:44:31 I would only approve it if it was just beer and wine

15:44:35 sales.

15:44:36 And if it closed at 11.

15:44:39 I would like to point out that we have -- I'm not sure

15:44:41 what these petitions are, but they are in favor of the

15:44:43 restaurant, but at least half of them aren't even from

15:44:47 people who live in Tampa.

15:44:49 So that's part of the record here.

15:44:53 But make sure that your petitions are signed by people

15:44:56 who actually live in the neighborhood.

15:45:02 You are asking for these waivers, distance separation

15:45:08 waivers, and, you know, it's exactly the same as what's