TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, February 18, 2010
9:00 a.m. session
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09:05:21 >>GWEN MILLER: The chair will yield to Mr. Charlie
09:05:25 >> Thank you, Madam Chair.
09:05:29 This morning we have an individual who started working
09:05:31 for the city years ago, then was smart enough to go on
09:05:34 his own.
09:05:42 He's a good friend of the community and has always done
09:05:45 outstanding work.
09:05:46 I see him once in a while at the Y.
09:05:49 He's here today to say the morning prayer.
09:05:51 Mr. Steve Michelini.
09:05:53 Please stand and rise for the prayer, remain standing
09:05:56 for the pledge of allegiance.
09:05:58 >>STEVE MICHELINI: We wish that those who wish to join
09:06:02 us for the invocation to do so.
09:06:04 In the beginning there was God and he created the
09:06:06 heavens and the earth, and got saw that it was good.
09:06:09 And God created two great lights, one greater for the
09:06:15 day and lesser for the night.
09:06:17 God created all things of life following each one in
09:06:20 his image and God blessed them all and he saw that
09:06:22 everything was good.
09:06:24 And so we now call upon the great giver of life, the
09:06:27 almighty God to bring those blessings and power and
09:06:30 bestow upon you the humble public and private servants
09:06:35 in your all holy and powerful name for there is no
09:06:39 authority that is greater except for the greater good
09:06:42 and power that comes from the glory of God.
09:06:44 We ask that you bring your blessings upon council and
09:06:48 all those who appear before it.
09:06:50 In his name amen.
09:06:52 (Pledge of Allegiance).
09:07:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Roll call.
09:07:09 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
09:07:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
09:07:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:07:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
09:07:24 >>GWEN MILLER: At this time we need a motion to adopt
09:07:26 the minutes.
09:07:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
09:07:29 >>GWEN MILLER: We need a second.
09:07:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second: We have a motion and
09:07:35 At this time I would turn it over to Charlie Miranda to
09:07:37 present a commendation.
09:07:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair.
09:07:57 Honorable chairwoman Miller, council members, it's my
09:08:00 pleasure this morning to be making this commendation to
09:08:02 a young lady named Barbara Kendrick.
09:08:13 Barbara comes from the Baromi family, was with raised
09:08:17 in Tampa and attended -- when her and I went to school
09:08:21 there was really only two high schools, plant and
09:08:24 Hillsborough, and then her and I went to Jefferson.
09:08:26 It was an extension of the homes.
09:08:28 She started working with the city on August 11th,
09:08:34 Under then make Nick Nuccio.
09:08:37 And she had a whopping salary of $1.24 an hour.
09:08:46 She has served 45 years, worked in many different
09:08:50 duties, did a lot of typing on something called manual,
09:08:56 and that wasn't her boyfriend, it was a manual
09:09:01 She was a switchboard operator.
09:09:03 She did handle complaints, worked for the
09:09:06 transportation, and let me tell you just a few of the
09:09:09 directors that she has trained, and one of them is here
09:09:18 Mike salmon, Steve tins Dale, Bausch Wallace, Jack
09:09:24 Morris and IRV Lee.
09:09:28 This commendation is in essence is what I just stated,
09:09:31 for her outstanding ability to work with all these
09:09:34 individuals, all these different personalities and a
09:09:37 survive 45 years under that.
09:09:41 They are really nice people, and I knew most of those.
09:09:45 I remember Nick Nuccio just like you do.
09:09:48 He's the only guy that could speak English and Spanish
09:09:52 and still got elected mayor.
09:09:54 [ Laughter ]
09:09:55 He would tell you something like this.
09:10:02 It's my pleasure, and not being disrespectful to the
09:10:06 mayor because he did something I never could do.
09:10:09 My pleasure.
09:10:10 Thank you very much.
09:10:11 [ Applause ]
09:10:19 >> I thank you, and I had a great 45 years with the
09:10:27 city, and it's an honor to serve the citizens.
09:10:30 Thank you.
09:10:32 [ Applause ]
09:10:33 Mr. Dingfelder has a commendation.
09:10:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: While he's coming up I would like
09:10:44 to remind council members we need to schedule
09:10:47 commendations on the fourth Thursday in the month in
09:10:49 the future.
09:10:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Good morning, council.
09:10:57 Good morning, Mr. Armijo, who comes to us without need
09:11:02 for introduction.
09:11:04 Well, I will introduce him.
09:11:05 Of course, David is head of our bus and transit
09:11:09 service, Hillsborough area regional transit (Hart.
09:11:22 I abbreviated it to Hart to be snappy.
09:11:26 They have been doing a lot of things lately and they
09:11:29 have been recognized by the Florida Department of
09:11:32 Transportation system, as the part of the Florida
09:11:35 Department of Transportation system of the year award,
09:11:38 and now we are like miss Florida, we are moving on to
09:11:48 To the national ranks.
09:11:49 With that I am going to read this commendation from
09:11:51 council and ask David to say a few words on behalf of
09:11:58 We congratulate transit Hart on receiving the
09:12:01 prestigious in a transportation system of the year
09:12:03 Hart achieved this honor through high marks and
09:12:08 efficiency, effectiveness, customer service, and
09:12:10 financial management.
09:12:12 In addition, achievements in safety, staff development,
09:12:15 marketing and community relations were evaluated in
09:12:19 Hart's qualifying for this coveted tribute.
09:12:22 Council applauds heart on this singular achievement and
09:12:25 believes that Hart, driven to serve you, is much more
09:12:28 than just a slogan.
09:12:29 Congratulations, David.
09:12:33 [ Applause ]
09:12:36 >> Thank you very much.
09:12:37 On behalf of the 734 employees of Hart, who work up to
09:12:43 seven days a week and up to 24 hours a day, we do have
09:12:47 extended service now 24 hours a day seven days a week.
09:12:50 They are doing a great job.
09:12:51 They transported 13 million people last year on our
09:12:54 buses, both local, express, the Teco streetcar which
09:13:00 ridership is up over last year and carries a number of
09:13:04 people there, and most importantly our Hart-plus
09:13:08 Many of you folks for the disabled throughout our
09:13:12 It's been a very challenging time here.
09:13:13 This award means a lot to the people of Hart.
09:13:16 In our 30 years we have never been recognized.
09:13:19 There's only 200 systems in the State of Florida, being
09:13:22 the fourth largest state and being number one is really
09:13:25 an important achievement for us, and something that we
09:13:27 are really looking forward to.
09:13:28 Most importantly, this award was done based on
09:13:32 quantitative measures, meaning measurable goals, both
09:13:35 ridership and cost attainment.
09:13:37 We are recognized both now locally, regionally, and in
09:13:40 Florida, and we are looking at being recognized
09:13:42 nationally, and we hope that this year will perhaps be
09:13:45 a shot at being number one for our system size.
09:13:48 With that, I really appreciate all the support this
09:13:50 council has provided to us.
09:13:53 Thank you very much for the award.
09:13:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to underscore the
09:13:57 congratulations of council and say that as we look
09:14:00 toward the referendum in November on a transit count,
09:14:04 the fact that you are so well administered and the fact
09:14:08 that the ridership is up all speaks well to the
09:14:15 competence of transit.
09:14:16 I was just saying, but we need more buses.
09:14:18 It takes too long to get from here to there because we
09:14:21 don't have more.
09:14:22 That is not a reflection on you, that's a reflection on
09:14:25 our ability to fund you better to provide additional
09:14:27 transit service.
09:14:28 So the ball is in our court.
09:14:30 Thank you for doing such an excellent job of running
09:14:33 our transit system.
09:14:33 >> Thank you.
09:14:36 I appreciate that.
09:14:37 [ Applause ]
09:14:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: One thing I was going to say, Madam
09:14:43 Chair and Linda, a lot of people don't realize, they
09:14:47 think the referendum is just about building a rail
09:14:49 line, which it is, but it also about increasing the bus
09:14:52 fleet and increasing the number of buses that will be
09:14:56 running per hour, and the whole bus system is going to
09:15:00 be upgraded tremendously if that referendum passes.
09:15:04 I just want to mention that as well.
09:15:05 Thank you, David.
09:15:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
09:15:11 >>GWEN MILLER: At this time we are going to our
09:15:15 attorney, over the amended agenda.
09:15:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The addendum to the agenda.
09:15:23 Good morning.
09:15:24 Before you, you have today's addendum to the agenda.
09:15:28 First off is a request on item 41, which is on
09:15:34 committee reports, and that's a request to move that to
09:15:37 the staff reports at 10:30 so you can have a brief
09:15:40 presentation made by staff about the comprehensive
09:15:42 annual financial report.
09:15:46 The next request would be item 68.
09:15:51 And the petitioner is here.
09:15:52 It's a resolution to set a public hearing on April
09:15:55 1st to vacate a right-of-way.
09:16:01 The petitioner is requesting that that be changed, that
09:16:04 date, from April 1st to April 15th.
09:16:07 I will also point out, council, if you look at your
09:16:10 calendar for April, you have no afternoon meeting on
09:16:15 April 1st, which means -- and I notice that with
09:16:18 regard to items 66, 67 and 68, those are all hearings
09:16:25 to vacate rights-of-way, and they are all set for April
09:16:29 1st, including this item number 68 which is being
09:16:32 requested to change to April 15th.
09:16:33 So if in fact you do pass item 66, 67, you will be
09:16:38 creating an afternoon meeting on April 1st whereas
09:16:41 you do not have one now.
09:16:42 I don't know whether that's council's intent to do
09:16:46 So if you wish to do that, have an afternoon meeting,
09:16:54 otherwise could you change all of them, 66, 67, 68 to
09:16:59 the afternoon if you wish, if on the 15th, if you
09:17:02 wish to avoid having a meeting on April 1st which I
09:17:05 believe was council's intention.
09:17:06 That being said, that would be a suggestion, in
09:17:09 addition to item number 68, and the petitioner has
09:17:12 brought that to our attention that he wishes to have
09:17:13 that date changed.
09:17:15 So is that council's plan?
09:17:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 66 and 67.
09:17:21 Anyone want to make a motion?
09:17:23 Want to make a motion to change those two?
09:17:25 >> So moved ... (off microphone).
09:17:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
09:17:34 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And we'll find out before then, I
09:17:39 Do you want to vote on that particular change?
09:17:41 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second to change
09:17:43 item 66, 67 and 68 to April 15th.
09:17:47 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
09:17:48 Opposed, Nay.
09:17:49 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.
09:17:51 Item 72 is a substitute ordinance that is being
09:18:09 Item number 78 is a report on a proposed roadway on
09:18:14 Gandy Boulevard.
09:18:15 There's been a request by the director of public works,
09:18:21 and services to continue that to March 4th, 2010.
09:18:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Madam Chairman.
09:18:31 Well, Ms. Mulhern I think wants to speak on that.
09:18:34 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
09:18:40 Did ask earlier in the week and I did check with some
09:18:42 of the citizens, and with the schedule of the
09:18:44 expressway authority, and our staff, so I think it's
09:18:47 fine for us to continue it, although there are people
09:18:50 here today who came to speak on it.
09:18:54 So they should have the opportunity to speak during
09:18:58 public comment.
09:18:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My comment was going to be that
09:19:02 what we had requested, what I understood Ms. Mulhern
09:19:07 requested, is a specific report on like how council
09:19:10 could be involved in this if we wanted to set
09:19:14 I think hearing from the public would be fine.
09:19:18 It's always confusing to the public when they see
09:19:20 something on the council agenda, we receive a
09:19:22 communication Wednesday saying put it off a few weeks,
09:19:26 and then the public hasn't had a chance to --
09:19:30 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes, I would have asked them to, you
09:19:33 know, still require them or ask them to do it today.
09:19:36 However, it turns out that the expressway authority --
09:19:39 we thought the expressway authority was going to be
09:19:41 voting on this issue this month, but they are not.
09:19:44 So whatever -- if they are going to have to take any
09:19:49 action, it's not till next month.
09:19:51 And it was kind of a short time that I gave our staff
09:19:55 to look at it.
09:19:56 So I'm fine with it.
09:19:58 I'm sorry for people who came today to talk on it, and
09:20:02 they are not going to get the staff report.
09:20:04 But we will have it in two weeks.
09:20:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And you will be able to speak
09:20:08 during public comment.
09:20:09 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
09:20:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Item 79 you received a memorandum
09:20:15 from Chief Castor regarding the enforcement of noise
09:20:17 issues and status of equipment and certifications of
09:20:25 That's been a request by councilman Dingfelder to have
09:20:30 four items removed from consent.
09:20:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let me tweak that up because it's
09:20:34 I would like to have a discussion on 29, 37 -- not 37.
09:20:39 You can cross that out because I got an answer on that
09:20:45 39, 65, and 63.
09:20:50 I thought I asked for 63 but somehow it didn't make it
09:20:53 on the report which is my fault.
09:20:56 There's 29, 39, 63, 65.
09:20:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And those will be moved to 10:30 for
09:21:04 staff report?
09:21:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes, please.
09:21:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Finally, Madam Chair, I believe you
09:21:09 have a memorandum from chair Scott on the absence --
09:21:13 his absence from today's meeting and I believe those
09:21:15 are all the changes to today's agenda unless there are
09:21:18 any other.
09:21:19 I present it for your approval.
09:21:25 I'm sorry, there is one other item, council.
09:21:34 Which number was that?
09:21:38 The resolution regarding the uses of seals.
09:21:42 I don't recall off the top of my head.
09:21:44 Item number 42, council, is a request for the legal
09:21:48 department to prepare the resolution for use of the
09:21:51 U.S. secret service to use the city seal.
09:21:54 That resolution has been provided to the clerk.
09:21:56 So when you come to 42 just move that resolution, it
09:22:00 will be complete and won't have to come back.
09:22:03 I thank you very much.
09:22:04 >>GWEN MILLER: I want to put on the record that
09:22:07 councilman Scott will not be in attendance.
09:22:09 He is out of town.
09:22:11 I need a motion.
09:22:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
09:22:16 >> Second.
09:22:17 (Motion carried).
09:22:21 >>GWEN MILLER: We go to public comments.
09:22:22 We have 30 minutes.
09:22:23 We would like to ask for ones that are going to speak
09:22:25 to items on the agenda speak first.
09:22:27 Anyone that are going to speak to items on the agenda,
09:22:30 please come and speak first.
09:22:31 >> My name is John Kieffer.
09:22:40 I'm the president of atheists of Florida.
09:22:47 I live at -- I'm not going to tell you my address
09:22:49 because I'm a hated minority.
09:22:52 I live in Tampa.
09:22:55 What you saw here today was that invocation is exactly
09:22:58 why this invocation needs to go.
09:23:04 That's somebody else's creationist.
09:23:08 In the words "in the beginning there was God."
09:23:10 What the heck is that?
09:23:14 God, my monitoring physical alien?
09:23:18 That idea by any other name would be insanity.
09:23:21 You would be on medication.
09:23:23 But I always say that.
09:23:24 I respect all religions.
09:23:26 And I only say that because you decide to bring
09:23:28 religion into government, and that is not
09:23:36 Approximately 40 years ago, I crawled around in
09:23:40 foxholes in the DMZ as an infantryman fighting for my
09:23:46 Constitution and yourself and I have to come in and am
09:23:51 not forced to pray is absolutely ridiculous.
09:23:55 It is a horrible and disgusting practice.
09:23:58 This is government.
09:23:59 You do not have rights as government.
09:24:00 I have rights as a citizen.
09:24:02 And I am demanding my Constitutional rights to come in
09:24:05 here to this city government and talk about some issue,
09:24:10 and before I get there, I have to either make a
09:24:12 decision to either pretend to pray so I don't look like
09:24:15 an outsider, or be true to my convictions and sit and
09:24:20 be identified as an outsider, possibly one of those
09:24:25 hated atheists.
09:24:26 I have spoken to this point twice before and I am
09:24:31 making it a third time and will come back every time.
09:24:34 You force me to identify myself as a religious outsider
09:24:37 is unconstitutional.
09:24:39 I did not fight in Vietnam, risk my life.
09:24:41 I watched guys get split in half, loss of life.
09:24:48 Lost his leg by an AK-47 go right by my ear.
09:24:52 Later on that today.
09:24:53 Why did I do that?
09:24:54 Because I love this country.
09:24:57 I love this Constitution.
09:24:58 For me to come in here and have to sit down because you
09:25:02 want to practice your religion in government, that is
09:25:06 absolutely than unconscionable and disgusting.
09:25:09 Thank you so much.
09:25:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker.
09:25:14 >> Glen Shull.
09:25:17 I live at 4826 west San Jose street.
09:25:21 I am here to speak on behalf of many who offer programs
09:25:26 for the city.
09:25:34 Please raise your hand.
09:25:44 We would request the council to remove clause 7 from
09:25:48 the contract which is overburdened putting unlimited
09:25:51 liability on instructors who are offering a service to
09:25:53 the city.
09:25:54 We want it reworded or removed so that it only covers
09:25:59 all liability when we are teaching a program to the
09:26:01 participants of our program, not anything that would be
09:26:04 construed as arising from the program in a remote way,
09:26:07 also to remove the hold harmless clause, we want to
09:26:10 retain the rights under Florida's indemnification law,
09:26:14 so if the city is found 100% at fault, the city pays
09:26:18 our defense at cost.
09:26:20 Also to remove the generally accepted accounting
09:26:23 principles compliance and the audit requirements
09:26:25 because we do not have any records that fall into that
09:26:28 category and we don't -- we are not CPAs.
09:26:31 We don't know what accounting principles would apply
09:26:35 but if we sign the contract we could be held
09:26:37 accountable for things we don't V.we turn the
09:26:39 attendance record over to the city.
09:26:41 They are the custodians of it, not us.
09:26:44 After termination of the contract base said we have to
09:26:48 keep liability for the city.
09:26:49 So I have to pay for liability insurance for years
09:26:52 after I stop teaching for the city.
09:26:55 That's not fair.
09:26:56 And please ask no more hoops.
09:26:58 Every time we jump through hoops they come up with
09:27:00 additional hoops we have to jump through.
09:27:02 I asked for the contract in September.
09:27:04 They said there would be no contract.
09:27:06 They said there would no contract.
09:27:07 In December they gave us a ten-page contract filled
09:27:10 with legalese.
09:27:12 I would not have spent the $300 I spent had I seen the
09:27:16 contract in the early part.
09:27:18 Four of us instructors were told we didn't even have a
09:27:20 contract before the year 2009 because Karen Palus had
09:27:27 not signed the contract.
09:27:28 Then they catch the checks every month that we had
09:27:30 turned in to them including the one in January.
09:27:33 A week ago, John Allen walked out of my tennis court
09:27:37 and said, if you are here teaching tomorrow we are
09:27:41 going to have the police serve you with a trespass
09:27:44 I said we will teach for free and see if can City
09:27:46 Council will intervene.
09:27:47 He said if you are out there teaching for free we will
09:27:50 have the police serve you with a trespass notice.
09:27:53 I stopped teaching obviously but I would like, if I
09:27:56 don't sign on as instructor, I would like a guaranteed
09:28:00 written statement from Corrada or Karen Palus if I am
09:28:04 out playing tennis and there is no payment involved and
09:28:08 we are working on skills improvement for each other
09:28:10 then I will not be served by police as a trespass
09:28:13 What questions do you have?
09:28:14 >>GWEN MILLER: None.
09:28:17 Are you finished?
09:28:19 >>> Yes, ma'am.
09:28:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Council members are not going to
09:28:22 intervene while people are speaking.
09:28:24 We are going to wait till everybody speaks and then
09:28:26 we'll address the issues you bring to us.
09:28:28 >>> Good morning.
09:28:31 I'm math thigh Cooper in Hillsborough, formerly of the
09:28:35 Carlton neighborhood.
09:28:37 Two weeks ago, a commentator said without prayer we
09:28:40 would not be here today.
09:28:43 Whether that's true or not, the issue before us is not
09:28:46 prayer but rather prayer in a public government forum.
09:28:54 Considering the dilemma, I realize many of my Christian
09:28:56 friends would ask WWJD, and now the rest.
09:29:05 So I looked into WJDD.
09:29:10 I notice in Mark 6, he went into a mountain to pray.
09:29:14 In Matthew 14, he went up into a mountain apart to
09:29:18 In Luke 9 he was alone praying.
09:29:21 In John 6 he departed again into a mountain himself
09:29:29 Described in Matthew 6 it's very clear that he expected
09:29:32 his followers to also pray in private, never in public.
09:29:39 It says: And when you pray, do not be like the
09:29:42 hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the
09:29:45 synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men.
09:29:49 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door.
09:29:56 It is difficult to imagine a clearer instruction not to
09:30:00 pray in public.
09:30:02 As a non-believer this is of course not the reason I
09:30:06 wish to have prayer removed from this forum.
09:30:09 However, it might be sufficient authority for some
09:30:12 members of council to decide not to have it in this
09:30:17 Therefore, I call on the council to follow the director
09:30:22 of Jesus as described in the book of Matthew to remove
09:30:25 prayer from this public forum.
09:30:26 Thank you very much.
09:30:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker.
09:30:29 >> Good morning.
09:30:33 My name is Debra white.
09:30:35 I live on Wisconsin Avenue in Tampa.
09:30:37 And my husband and I have operated Mr. White's windows
09:30:41 the past 20 years in the City of Tampa.
09:30:44 We are currently under your new contract.
09:30:47 My purpose today is two-fold.
09:30:49 I concur with statements that you will hear from other
09:30:52 instructors, but the manner which we have contract
09:30:56 instructors are not being paid in a timely manner.
09:31:00 Our fees are collected based on monthly attendance at
09:31:04 four separate locations.
09:31:05 The city requested payment at the beginning of the
09:31:09 month and they are processed by staff.
09:31:11 Receipt and payment forms are forwarded to the city
09:31:13 staff, and at the end of the month together with our
09:31:17 attendance verification Cathy then reviews it, prepares
09:31:21 an adjusted invoice, and forwards it to the
09:31:26 In some cases we are up to 14 days past the close of
09:31:29 the month before staff at the centers forward the
09:31:32 information to Cathy.
09:31:33 Then the fun really begins.
09:31:36 We have been told to expect an additional three weeks
09:31:39 before a payment can be processed through accounting.
09:31:42 I hope you understand the ramifications that are
09:31:47 Our program will be teaching three months, which you
09:31:50 have received two full months of payment and a third
09:31:53 one coming in before we are paid anything.
09:31:58 And you are getting interest on our proceeds, on our
09:32:02 efforts, when we are not receiving anything back.
09:32:06 Would your secretary, your aide, or even yourself be
09:32:09 willing to work for two full months without receiving
09:32:12 We did not wait two months to pay you your 30% for the
09:32:16 past 20 years.
09:32:17 We did not charge you back because you closed your
09:32:20 centers for break week or holidays,.
09:32:27 They were given the impression the program is to
09:32:29 facilitate a public-private coalition to provide
09:32:32 services to the citizens of the City of Tampa.
09:32:35 Instead, you have an extreme drop-off of actually
09:32:39 approved instructors, and if payment process, the
09:32:44 likelihood you will have none.
09:32:46 I was told you have modeled this program after the city
09:32:49 of St. Petersburg's program.
09:32:52 Their contract is two pages, and they pay their
09:32:54 instructors within two weeks at the close of the month
09:32:59 Without direction from you, this is clearly not the
09:33:02 case for us.
09:33:04 I thank you for your consideration.
09:33:06 I'm available to meet with you at any time in the
09:33:08 future to discuss the matters further.
09:33:10 Thank you.
09:33:10 >>> Good morning.
09:33:17 My name is Diane Hart.
09:33:18 I reside at 5006 east Cumberland drive.
09:33:22 I come before you as CEO of East Tampa business and
09:33:25 civic association, and a member of the Jackson height
09:33:32 center, youth education council.
09:33:35 For my concern, I don't believe when you all accepted
09:33:41 Ms. Karen Palus' explanation of what these fees would
09:33:44 be that you understood the real ramifications of what
09:33:46 it was going to do to our community.
09:33:49 Jackson height NFL center had 130 participants in
09:33:55 To date we have 48 after-school kids at Jackson
09:34:00 Fairoaks had 150 students.
09:34:03 They currently have 30 after-school children.
09:34:08 The weight structure and the fees are just astronomical
09:34:11 for people who work and for those who don't work.
09:34:14 It's $55 per child for the first child, and $50 for
09:34:18 each additional child.
09:34:19 My daughter has three.
09:34:22 It would cost her $65 a week if she got a scholarship.
09:34:26 If she did not get a scholarship, it will cost her $155
09:34:31 a week.
09:34:31 I don't know any parent who could afford to send their
09:34:34 children to our park at those prices.
09:34:37 You all are very much aware of the parks that we have
09:34:41 created in East Tampa, the Carrington community lake
09:34:46 next to Fairoaks.
09:34:48 That is currently being taken over by teenagers who can
09:34:50 no longer go to the park.
09:34:52 There is a rec fee of $15 per child, and we understand
09:34:56 that, and that's perfectly fine.
09:34:58 But this $55 a week for summer, we are going to have
09:35:02 over half of our children on the streets this summer,
09:35:06 something we can hardly afford in East Tampa.
09:35:08 My on the concern is we have not a single teenager
09:35:15 participating in Fairoaks, and those of you know that
09:35:18 our parks have always been filled with children.
09:35:20 We had over 200 children at some point at Fairoaks
09:35:24 At Jackson Heights we had it up as many as 160
09:35:29 We are begging you, please, take a look at the fee
09:35:33 It's not long-term, at least for this summer.
09:35:36 We are going to have devastating results in our
09:35:39 It's not going to be retained in just East Tampa.
09:35:42 It's going to spill out into all of our community.
09:35:45 Currently, our parks, Robles Park is being closed.
09:35:49 The stadium park is being closed.
09:35:50 Giddeon park has been turned into an arts center of
09:35:53 some sort.
09:35:55 Oak Park is going to be closed.
09:35:58 It is a nightmare for our children in East Tampa.
09:36:01 The community is coming to East Tampa business civic
09:36:04 association saying, please help us.
09:36:06 I'm not exactly sure what council can or is willing to
09:36:10 do, but we must renegotiate this fee structure, or we
09:36:14 will have no children in our parks.
09:36:16 We did not get that beautiful center built at the
09:36:18 corner of 34th and lake not to have it filled with
09:36:22 Besides the $55 a week if you don't get a scholarship,
09:36:26 anything else that you participate in is an additional
09:36:29 This is a hardship.
09:36:31 I'm also asking council to ask Ms. Palus to allow
09:36:35 considering applications to be taken at the center for
09:36:37 scholarships, to go to Himes and Columbus drive is a
09:36:41 great inconvenience for parents who don't have cars,
09:36:43 who are on the bus, who take it to go back and forth to
09:36:50 work, who don't have a privilege to get there any other
09:36:53 Please, please take a look at our fee structure.
09:36:55 >>> My name is Tim Gibbons, 6920 north 17th street.
09:37:03 I worked at the Parks and Recreation Department as an
09:37:07 independent instructor.
09:37:08 I worked with them for 20 years, first through
09:37:10 community education, which was eliminated, and then
09:37:13 last 14 years the Hyde Park rec center.
09:37:20 I collected all the money, paid my 30% back to the
09:37:23 parks and recreation department and then all of a
09:37:26 sudden things changed.
09:37:27 I was hand add contract that I was forced to sign or
09:37:31 not teach.
09:37:31 My classes are full.
09:37:37 I do children's classes, preschool classes, children's
09:37:39 classes and adult classes.
09:37:41 So to give a little bit of my background.
09:37:45 I have been teaching art classes for 34 years.
09:37:48 I graduated from high school, went to the Marine Corps,
09:37:55 west Florida, and 14 years at the Richmond center which
09:38:00 is a nonprofit organization, talked to the junior
09:38:01 colleges here in Tampa, and I taught classes all over
09:38:07 Brandon and Tampa.
09:38:08 What's gone on, it seems to me, that someone has come
09:38:11 up with some sort of contracts to force the independent
09:38:15 instructors to -- I'm not sure what the reason it is
09:38:18 but forced the independent instructors to jump through
09:38:23 Now they control when I get my money.
09:38:25 In fact, I just got something that's very humorous to
09:38:30 me, that for contract, I signed something -- this is
09:38:33 how petty this is.
09:38:36 I signed -- funded my contract, wrote back and said,
09:38:43 well, put down media fund when I had the class.
09:38:46 And they said, well, you signed up for medium art and
09:38:48 not medium fun so now I have to renegotiate the
09:38:54 Medium art and medium fun are the same thing.
09:38:57 I don't know about that.
09:38:58 Then I have painting fund, and the other is beginning
09:39:03 Well, I have to renegotiate the contract now because I
09:39:06 called it painting fund instead of calling it used
09:39:11 Painting youth, painting fund are the same thing.
09:39:14 Big and little -- I have like eight parents and two and
09:39:21 a half and five years which I love.
09:39:22 So I have that as big and little art instead of big and
09:39:26 little art class.
09:39:27 So now I have to renegotiate my contract because I had
09:39:31 big and little art fund instead of big and little art
09:39:34 This is the sort of harassment and the
09:39:36 unprofessionalism that is being fought here.
09:39:41 I have a contract -- the legal terms, I don't know what
09:39:46 they are talking about. Yeah, I'm an artist.
09:39:49 I have no idea what these people are talking about.
09:39:51 So when I signed a contract and had to put out $300, I
09:39:55 used their insurance company, and in fact that's not
09:39:59 the right insurance company so $137 in the insurance
09:40:02 company, I had to wait for a refund, and then go find
09:40:05 my own insurance company and put out money for that.
09:40:07 So I put out $300 for something I never had to put out
09:40:11 The system wasn't broke.
09:40:12 Why fix it?
09:40:13 I did it on my own.
09:40:14 I got money.
09:40:16 The money, checks signed out to me, I gave them the
09:40:20 But now all of a sudden, all this convoluted stuff and
09:40:25 it's very hard.
09:40:26 I know three instructors who are not coming back and
09:40:28 they were very good instructors.
09:40:29 Now if you do have city instructors, do you have city
09:40:34 (Bell sounds)
09:40:35 Is that my time is up?
09:40:37 Well, this is really hard for people like me to
09:40:40 perform -- conform to this and also jump through these
09:40:45 Thanks very much.
09:40:46 >>> Good morning.
09:40:50 My name is Norene Miller, East Tampa and civic
09:40:57 Resident in East Tampa, and also concerned citizen.
09:41:01 I'm here this morning to ask you if you would
09:41:04 reconsider the park and rec fees for those parks.
09:41:08 I have lately observed children playing in the street
09:41:11 again in an unsafe environment.
09:41:14 We want to ensure safety in our communities.
09:41:17 And we are always talking about in this city.
09:41:20 It appears to me that the children in East Tampa and
09:41:23 throughout the City of Tampa are not going to be able
09:41:26 to afford to go to the parks.
09:41:29 I paid my fee to go through Cyrus Greene park.
09:41:32 At one point this were over 100 children there.
09:41:35 Today there are only 35 children that are able to
09:41:38 attend that can afford it.
09:41:41 Also, there are parents coming in to bring their
09:41:43 children, one and two children, they can't afford to
09:41:49 pay the fee.
09:41:50 I do ask that you do things to ensure that our children
09:41:53 for the summer as well as the after-school programs are
09:41:55 allowed to attend the public arts in Hillsborough
09:41:58 County, in the City of Tampa.
09:42:00 One of the things that I was at last Monday, talking
09:42:04 about ordinary people doing extraordinary things.
09:42:06 I come this morning to ask you all to do some
09:42:08 extraordinary things for the children in East Tampa.
09:42:10 Thank you.
09:42:10 >>> Good morning.
09:42:17 My name is Marc Rubio.
09:42:19 I was born and raised in Tampa.
09:42:21 I'm a business owner, and a homeowner south of Gandy,
09:42:26 and I'm opposed to the Gandy extension that connect
09:42:30 from the Gandy bridge to the Crosstown.
09:42:32 We just spent $22 million revitalizing Gandy and now
09:42:36 they want to spend another $128 million tearing it up,
09:42:40 and building the connector.
09:42:42 Small businesses just went through two years of
09:42:46 We lost some of the small businesses and a lot of
09:42:50 others are on the verge of shutting down.
09:42:53 If they benefit -- it may benefit Pinellas County but
09:42:57 it the gateway to our city.
09:42:59 I haven't heard any of our city officials take a stand
09:43:01 one way or the other for the bridge.
09:43:07 Most of our community is opposed -- I'll talk about
09:43:11 that in a second.
09:43:15 75, Crosstown authority, by their own numbers, 75% of
09:43:18 the people are against it, spoke against it on 25 of
09:43:24 their numbers are for it.
09:43:25 All the businesses on Gandy are opposed.
09:43:28 To me, this has really just been a crime, that they
09:43:33 really haven't notified our elected officials along
09:43:36 with the public of what the community really wants.
09:43:39 Al is going to talk about it but we have taken vote at
09:43:42 all the civic associations and everybody has been
09:43:46 The structures of massive concrete two-story bridge
09:43:50 that is really flat-out ugly, and it's basically the
09:43:53 same from downtown to Ybor City.
09:43:56 Anybody who goes to lunch in Ybor, goes that way, you
09:43:58 go sit under that bridge, what does that look like?
09:44:01 The only thing underneath there is weeds and trash, and
09:44:04 that's the same thing they want to build down Gandy.
09:44:07 We have looked through the whole United States.
09:44:10 We are reasonable people.
09:44:11 Tell me one place in the whole United States where they
09:44:17 build a bridge like that.
09:44:18 We can't find it even in Seattle Washington, they have
09:44:21 a bridge downtown and they want to take it down because
09:44:24 it's an ugly eyesore.
09:44:26 And we know once it's built, it ain't coming down for a
09:44:29 long time.
09:44:32 It said it going to look like Main Street, like
09:44:34 Channelside after its built underneath it and we all
09:44:38 know better than that.
09:44:39 Real estate values are going to go down.
09:44:41 We talked to property a appraisers.
09:44:42 There's going to be a noise problem.
09:44:44 It's going to transfer noise, safety issues, property
09:44:47 values for homeowners will plummet even more.
09:44:50 Which results in more crime and vagrants.
09:44:55 They are concerned about their own personal agenda and
09:44:57 not the people in the community.
09:44:58 We need our elected officials to protect us against
09:45:02 this massive structure.
09:45:04 As said in the beginning, I have been active in all the
09:45:08 meetings, if we didn't want it they wouldn't build it
09:45:11 but they keep pushing it and keep telling in council
09:45:14 that the people aren't opposed to it, and it flat-out
09:45:17 not true.
09:45:17 Thank you.
09:45:22 >> Good morning.
09:45:24 My name is Janet Cordino and the chapter leader for
09:45:28 concerned women for America in Florida.
09:45:30 We are the nation's largest public policy women's with
09:45:33 organization with a rich 30-year history of helping our
09:45:37 members across the country bring Biblical principals
09:45:42 into all levels of public policy.
09:45:44 We have over 22,000 members in the State of Florida.
09:45:48 I am here to thank you today.
09:45:50 We would like you to be aware that many citizens in the
09:45:54 local Tampa Bay area are silently supporting keeping
09:45:57 the Constitutional status quo regarding the invocation
09:46:02 at these council meetings.
09:46:04 We oppose the vocal minority that would strip yet
09:46:08 another acknowledgement of our sovereign God from the
09:46:10 public atmosphere.
09:46:12 Invocation prayer is Constitutional, and there is much
09:46:15 legal support in this arena.
09:46:17 It is our understanding that your office has received
09:46:20 information about this from various legal
09:46:24 Again, the Tampa chapter of concerned women for America
09:46:28 of Florida would like to thank the members of the Tampa
09:46:30 City Council for standing strong for invocation prayer
09:46:34 at your council meetings.
09:46:41 >>> Al Steenson, 4100 west Leila Avenue, Tampa.
09:46:47 I'm also the president of Gandy sun Bay south.
09:46:50 As you heard Mr. Rubio just speak a moment ago.
09:46:54 He has a great deal at stake down there on Gandy.
09:46:59 He's also a member of our association.
09:47:02 And I'm a little disappointed that staff had a period
09:47:07 of two weeks to prepare for this, and then less than 24
09:47:12 hours prior to this morning we are noticed that they
09:47:14 want a continuance.
09:47:20 It's my job as president to put this information out to
09:47:23 our membership, and I understand they were asking for a
09:47:29 There would have been a great deal more people here
09:47:31 today, and I have documents that I had planned to put
09:47:34 into the record.
09:47:34 But we will hold them off until March the 3rd.
09:47:40 There is a tremendous amount of opposition down here to
09:47:43 this particular project.
09:47:46 I fail to see what's going to change in this whole
09:47:49 scenario between this morning and 9:00 on March
09:47:54 And as I say, I'm disappointed with staff.
09:47:58 It is this administration that invited the expressway
09:48:01 down into Gandy.
09:48:02 I have a copy of the letter that was written by the
09:48:05 administrator Steve Daignault back in December of 2007
09:48:09 that said it time for to you come down here and take a
09:48:12 look at this.
09:48:12 We did not invite them.
09:48:14 Granted, we had issues with traffic for many, many
09:48:18 years down there.
09:48:20 As Mark just mentioned, we just spent $22 million of
09:48:23 our tax-payer money getting Gandy fixed up.
09:48:27 I don't know how many of you have driven down there.
09:48:30 It working.
09:48:30 The intersections are clearing out.
09:48:32 And in the communities' opinion, and there is a lot of
09:48:39 Some of them haven't even taken a stand yet -- there is
09:48:43 tremendous opposition, and the expressway has said time
09:48:47 and time again if the committee doesn't want it and
09:48:49 business doesn't want it, we are not going to build it.
09:48:51 Well, we'll see about that in March and we'll see you
09:48:53 all on March 3rd and we'll have a lot more people
09:48:57 Thank you very kindly.
09:49:11 >> Pete Johnson.
09:49:12 It's been a busy day.
09:49:16 My main item that I am speaking on is item number 80.
09:49:21 I'm passing out the letter from Sharon West in regards
09:49:25 to my letter on January 19.
09:49:29 If you look at the first line.
09:49:31 I have a lot to go through but I'll try to dot as fast
09:49:33 as I can.
09:49:34 They say that it wasn't completed because it wasn't
09:49:39 That's a department issue for us.
09:49:41 They said they want to check public records to be sure
09:49:43 that there was no liens on the property.
09:49:46 You can do that on the Internet.
09:49:47 You don't need a credit report.
09:49:52 The city utilities departments, not going to check with
09:49:56 I was told by Cynthia Miller that's one of the things
09:49:58 they are supposed to check.
09:50:00 As a matter of fact, right here is the latest still
09:50:06 owed on this property.
09:50:09 The rehappen work is extended to structure repairs.
09:50:13 This is not what the TIF funds -- what do they call it?
09:50:25 The policy and procedures says.
09:50:28 The repairs are written up close to the time of the --
09:50:35 to repair for the code violations.
09:50:37 Well, there was no code violations for installation.
09:50:42 There was in a code violation for AC duct work.
09:50:46 I mean, this is ridiculous.
09:50:47 This was a waste of money.
09:50:48 My whole point in all of this is that three out of
09:50:54 four -- no, four out of five people living in this
09:50:59 house are on Social Security disability because of
09:51:02 health reasons.
09:51:08 For this division not to take that into consideration
09:51:10 and replace the black mold that is in the drywall and
09:51:17 in the ceiling is not acceptable: It put it me in the
09:51:23 hospital for a week with pneumonia and bedridden for 30
09:51:27 days, with injections with a PIC line to my heart,
09:51:32 because I took it upon myself to look out for the
09:51:35 health and safety of these people where the city's
09:51:39 department did not.
09:51:42 I am infuriated by the short coming.
09:51:45 I'm infuriated by the lying, the misrepresentation of
09:51:47 the truth, not being just plain honest with me and not
09:51:52 being honest with the owner, because I'm sure if we had
09:51:55 known that according to the policy and procedures that
09:52:00 drywall could have been covered, I am sure that we
09:52:04 would have not done the painting of it, and the
09:52:08 painting would have cost maybe $100, for "Paint Your
09:52:12 Heart Out," or I could have come up with another agency
09:52:15 to paint it.
09:52:16 The fact that the division did not even offer any other
09:52:19 agency to try to help correct the health problems shows
09:52:24 pure neglect.
09:52:27 And I am infuriated about it.
09:52:30 And I request that you talk to these people and try to
09:52:33 get the policy and procedures corrected.
09:52:36 This is ridiculous.
09:52:39 $30,000, and they didn't do a credit report.
09:52:41 (Bell sounds)
09:52:43 Thank you.
09:52:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Before you come up, our 30 minutes is
09:52:47 up that we allow for public comments.
09:52:49 For anyone in the public that wants to speak on an item
09:52:51 that we are going to vote on today, line up and you can
09:52:55 We are extending time for to you speak on it.
09:52:58 If you want to speak on an item that we are going to
09:53:00 vote on today, you can speak and we will extend time
09:53:02 for that.
09:53:03 But others who just wants to talk about something, you
09:53:05 can wait at the end of our meeting, you can speak at
09:53:07 the end of the meeting.
09:53:14 Anyone who is going to speak on an item that we are
09:53:16 going to vote on now, would you please line up and
09:53:18 speak first?
09:53:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's on the agenda?
09:53:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes, on the agenda.
09:53:23 >>> I'm Gary Shepherd, 3422 southeast drive in Tampa.
09:53:29 And today I am speaking for the Hillsborough County
09:53:30 tennis association.
09:53:32 And basically I'm here to support the instructors,
09:53:38 tennis instructors and other instructors as well.
09:53:41 And my basic point is I just think the city should work
09:53:43 to make this easy as possible to support the
09:53:49 instruction of any kind but especially for tennis, of
09:53:51 course, and just real quickly, one point, I last spoke
09:53:56 at August of 2007, and at that point the city ended its
09:54:01 support of tennis at Hillsborough community college,
09:54:03 and by doing so the city is saving almost half a
09:54:08 million dollars a year.
09:54:09 So tennis has already given in terms of saving money
09:54:14 for the city.
09:54:16 And I would also like to thank the council for your
09:54:20 efforts to keep tennis going at Hillsborough community
09:54:22 And I appreciate that very much.
09:54:23 That's all I have to say.
09:54:25 >>> My name is Jim lake, 4218 San Pedro street, here
09:54:33 this morning as a lawyer for the "The Tampa Tribune,"
09:54:36 and just wanted to speak very briefly about item number
09:54:39 75 on council's agenda.
09:54:41 First reading of an amendment to the news wrack
09:54:45 ordinance in the City of Tampa.
09:54:46 I'm here today with Tommy McLeod, the Tribune's
09:54:50 distribution and operations manager and Gary steel, the
09:54:52 Tribune single copy manager.
09:54:54 And I want to thank council for working with us on this
09:54:58 -- this issue.
09:54:59 You heard from me before and I appreciate that and also
09:55:01 the cooperation of the city attorney's office and
09:55:03 transportation staff in addressing some of the concerns
09:55:06 we had about an earlier draft.
09:55:08 Although the current draft we think is certainly an
09:55:10 improvement over the earlier versions, we continue to
09:55:13 have concerns about two aspects of the current
09:55:17 And I mentioned those in a letter that I sent council
09:55:20 earlier this week.
09:55:21 I know as the chair pointed out that your time is short
09:55:24 so I won't repeat way said in the letter but I do have
09:55:27 extra copies of that if the council would like that,
09:55:29 and certainly I will be here to answer any questions
09:55:31 that council has.
09:55:32 Otherwise, I won't repeat what I have already written
09:55:35 to you about.
09:55:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
09:55:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Do you have extra copies?
09:55:40 >>> Yes, ma'am.
09:55:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone else that wants to speak on an
09:55:43 item that we are going to vote on today?
09:55:46 The public hearings or staff reports.
09:55:48 >> Good morning.
09:55:50 My name is -- I I'm with East Tampa business civic
09:55:55 association as well as the ETIC.
09:55:57 The reason that I come before you this morning is the
09:55:59 matter of the park fees item 74.
09:56:04 I am a sing is will mother of two children ages 12 and
09:56:08 Both of my children have attended the City of Tampa
09:56:11 parks and recreation since they were four and five
09:56:13 years old.
09:56:16 They have attended both city and county parks.
09:56:18 As a single mother I struggle to pay park and field
09:56:22 trip costs and as the costs rose from $12 per child to
09:56:26 55 or $50 per child I could no longer afford to send
09:56:32 If as a City Council member you don't see how raising
09:56:33 the fees can -- if you don't see how raising fees is a
09:56:39 problem, then helping to strengthen our communities
09:56:42 could not possibly be on anyone's agenda.
09:56:45 I was always told as a child where there is a will
09:56:48 there is a way.
09:56:49 I plead with you to find another way to increase
09:56:52 revenue for our local government on the than raising
09:56:56 If these fees are not reduced or eliminated, again you
09:57:00 can pay now or pay for police officers who will be
09:57:03 patrolling the area and who will be needed during the
09:57:07 This leads us to idle time.
09:57:10 Idle time can quickly turn into jail time.
09:57:13 If you choose not to reconsider, then remember it may
09:57:17 be your house or your car that these kids may be
09:57:20 breaking into as they are out for the summer with no
09:57:23 recreation because of the rising costs.
09:57:26 Thank you.
09:57:26 And I hope that you will consider.
09:57:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
09:57:31 Anyone else want to speak on an item that's on the
09:57:33 agenda for a public hearing that we are going to vote
09:57:35 on or staff report?
09:57:38 >>> Ken Duncan.
09:57:39 I live in Land O' Lakes.
09:57:42 I coach a team here in the City of Tampa.
09:57:47 And I concur with what the other contract instructors
09:57:50 have had to say.
09:57:51 But also ask that the City Council implore the Parks
09:57:55 and Recreation Department to have more open discussion
09:57:57 and environment with the contract instructors, and we
09:58:01 do run quality programs. I'm a former NCAA division 1
09:58:02 swim coach who retired after 20 years, and I run a
09:58:07 quality program, but I feel like my arms are being
09:58:10 twisted, and I am being pushed into making decisions
09:58:14 that I shouldn't be making.
09:58:16 We do keep kids off the street.
09:58:18 We do reduce property crime.
09:58:20 And so I just ask that you ask the Parks and Recreation
09:58:22 Department to have more open environment with us.
09:58:25 Thank you.
09:58:32 >>> I'm Rob Curry.
09:58:34 I'm Executive Director of atheists of Florida, 3614
09:58:39 south Manhattan Avenue.
09:58:40 I would like to add my voice to those who have spoken
09:58:42 about the parks fees, because that is important how we
09:58:47 give our children an opportunity to spend their time
09:58:49 doing things that are constructive.
09:58:51 And I think that's an important issue.
09:58:54 Other issues that you have heard as well -- in fact I
09:58:58 would like to provide this for the council.
09:59:02 I know many people talked with about the invocation as
09:59:17 It certainly controversial and I would add
09:59:21 I want to thank Councilwoman Mulhern especially --
09:59:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Excuse me, are you speaking about the
09:59:26 fees or are you going to speak about something else?
09:59:28 >> I would like to speak about both.
09:59:30 >>GWEN MILLER: But we are not voting on anything but
09:59:32 the fees.
09:59:32 >> I apologize for my ignorance of the council's
09:59:38 But may I ask is this something that you might vote
09:59:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Not today.
09:59:43 It's not on the agenda.
09:59:44 >> Okay.
09:59:45 Then I simply ask that you be kind enough to review the
09:59:47 letter that the attorney is passing out, that we are
09:59:50 requesting a response within two weeks by the next
09:59:53 public session.
09:59:54 And I look forward to speaking with you later.
09:59:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
09:59:57 >> Have a wonderful day and thank you for all the
10:00:01 constructive things you do for the community.
10:00:02 >> Anyone that wants to speak on stems on the agenda
10:00:06 that we are going to be voting on today or staff
10:00:09 If you are not going to speak on those items, you can
10:00:11 stay to the end of our meeting and express your opinion
10:00:14 after that.
10:00:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I can, Madam Chairman.
10:00:17 Sorry to interrupt.
10:00:18 But just to clarify.
10:00:19 When you say public hearing, you mean legislative
10:00:21 items, not items that are set for public hearings, but
10:00:24 items that are on the agenda that are legislative or
10:00:27 appear under staff reports.
10:00:29 Those items.
10:00:30 And those people who wish to speak to other items that
10:00:32 are on the agenda, council rules do provide for the
10:00:34 opportunity for them to address council at the end of
10:00:36 today's meeting.
10:00:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Correct.
10:00:42 That's the end of our public comments.
10:00:45 Is there anyone in the public that would like to
10:00:47 request reconsideration of a legislative matter?
10:00:51 Anyone in the public that would like to request
10:00:53 reconsideration of a public matter?
10:00:59 If not, hearing none, we go to our committee reports.
10:01:03 Public safety, Mr. Charlie Miranda.
10:01:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move items 3 through 10.
10:01:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:01:15 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:01:16 (Motion carried)
10:01:18 Parks and recreation, Linda Saul-Sena.
10:01:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Off microphone)
10:01:28 I want to point out our director Karen Palus will come
10:01:31 to us at 10:30 under staff reports.
10:01:33 I would like to move items 11 through 19.
10:01:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
10:01:37 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
10:01:38 (Motion carried)
10:01:39 Public works, Mr. Charlie Miranda.
10:01:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I believe there's one item that was
10:01:44 being held by request of a council member, if I recall
10:01:50 That item was number 29.
10:01:57 So I will move except 29, through 33 with the exception
10:02:01 of 29.
10:02:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:02:02 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:02:04 (Motion carried)
10:02:06 Finance Committee, Ms. Mary Mulhern.
10:02:09 >>MARY MULHERN: I am going to move items 34 through
10:02:16 Number 39 has been pulled for staff report.
10:02:18 I am going to move item 40.
10:02:23 And it looks like item 41 is going to be on staff
10:02:26 reports at 10:30.
10:02:28 And then item 42, I need to just move the resolution.
10:02:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:02:36 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
10:02:37 (Motion carried)
10:02:39 Building and zoning.
10:02:40 Mr. Joseph Caetano.
10:02:42 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like to move items 43 to
10:02:45 65, and number 63 has been moved to staff report.
10:02:51 >>GWEN MILLER: You go to 60.
10:02:57 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Excuse me.
10:03:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Did I get a second?
10:03:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
10:03:03 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor say Aye.
10:03:05 Opposed, Nay.
10:03:06 Transportation, Mr. John Dingfelder.
10:03:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I would like to move 61, 62 and 64.
10:03:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:03:13 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
10:03:15 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
10:03:16 Opposed, Nay.
10:03:17 We now go to item number 69.
10:03:20 Is there anyone in the public that wants to speak on
10:03:23 item 69 through 72?
10:03:29 Would you please stand and raise your right hand?
10:03:31 (Oath administered by Clerk).
10:03:47 >> I ask that all written communications in City
10:03:50 Council's office be received and filed prior to action
10:03:52 by motion and vote, please.
10:03:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So moved.
10:03:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:03:55 (Motion carried).
10:04:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If there are any ex parte
10:04:03 communications between you and any member of the public
10:04:04 regarding any of today's hearings please disclose those
10:04:08 and the substance of your communications prior to the
10:04:11 Thank you.
10:04:11 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to open those items 68 through
10:04:16 >> So moved.
10:04:17 >> Second.
10:04:17 (Motion carried).
10:04:19 >>LaCHONE DOCK: Land Development Coordination.
10:04:22 Item 69, 70 and 72 all required certified site plans.
10:04:27 Those plans have been certified by the zoning
10:04:28 administrator and have been provided to the clerk.
10:04:31 Staff has copies of those plans, if you have any
10:04:34 Thank you.
10:04:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
10:04:37 would like to speak on item 69?
10:04:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
10:04:42 >> Second.
10:04:43 (Motion carried).
10:04:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder, would you read 69,
10:04:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move the following ordinance for
10:04:51 second reading and adoption.
10:04:52 An ordinance repealing ordinance number 2008-114
10:04:57 approving a special ferment S-2 for alcoholic sales of
10:05:00 small venue making lawful the sale of beverages
10:05:03 containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight not more
10:05:05 than 14% weight and wines 2(APS) in sealed containers
10:05:10 for consumption off premises only at or from that
10:05:14 certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 4808 east
10:05:17 Broadway with Avenue, Tampa, Florida as more
10:05:19 particularly described in section 3 hereof providing
10:05:21 for repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
10:05:24 effective date.
10:05:24 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion.
10:05:28 >> Second.
10:05:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Vote and record.
10:05:38 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Scott being absent.
10:05:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: On number 70, I want to share a
10:05:46 conversation that I had that was related to the vote
10:05:50 that we are taking on 70.
10:05:52 Last Friday morning at 9:00, at 8:00, I had breakfast
10:05:56 at Hugo's on Howard Avenue.
10:05:58 With a group of people who are very active in the Hyde
10:06:03 Park area including Rosemary Henderson, jack Wyatt, Del
10:06:08 Acosta, and a couple of other people who came, I can't
10:06:12 We were talking about a variety of issues including,
10:06:14 well, the clean-up of water retention pond and some on
10:06:17 the things.
10:06:18 But the reason I'm bringing this up is at that time I
10:06:21 talked about -- they complained to me about the city
10:06:26 staff didn't explain to them that City Council is very
10:06:28 limited in our review of zonings that have to do with
10:06:32 school property, and we basically can't say no but we
10:06:35 can try to make it better.
10:06:37 They said if they understood that in advance they
10:06:39 wouldn't have spent so much time and concern over the
10:06:45 rezoning or about to -- we are about to consider.
10:06:48 And I said, well, council members know this, but I
10:06:50 guess the city staff should have explained this to you,
10:06:54 and I explained it indeed council really is constrained
10:06:56 to the degree that when we review school board
10:07:00 properties, it's a different situation than normal
10:07:03 That was the content of our conversation.
10:07:07 And because it was related to this rezoning, though not
10:07:12 like the minutia of it, I wanted to share with you all.
10:07:17 >> Would anyone in the public like to speak on item 70?
10:07:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
10:07:28 >> Second.
10:07:29 >>MARY MULHERN: I had a few questions.
10:07:32 I'm sorry -- of staff at the first hearing on the whole
10:07:37 issue of the school board property and us not being
10:07:39 able to vote on it.
10:07:45 Is it that we can't vote -- we have no say about
10:07:49 anything they do on the property?
10:07:50 Or is it that if their buildings, expanding the
10:07:57 schools, we can't?
10:07:58 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
10:08:02 The first hearing on this and also at the last school
10:08:04 board item that came before you, I explained Florida
10:08:06 statutes does limit City Council's authority to review
10:08:10 rezoning for special use permits as relates to school
10:08:14 expansions, new school construction, et cetera.
10:08:17 You don't have the right to deny the use of the
10:08:19 property for whatever it is they are asking for as that
10:08:23 the school board is asking for.
10:08:25 Do you have a right to place reasonable conditions upon
10:08:27 what that request is, hearing what that request is, and
10:08:32 concerns of citizens, et cetera.
10:08:33 So I want to be clear.
10:08:38 Your limitation is the approval or denial, you do have
10:08:41 the right to place reasonable conditions on those.
10:08:44 The request that comes before you.
10:08:46 >>MARY MULHERN: The language in my backup is somewhere
10:08:52 in that, a Florida statute?
10:08:54 >>JULIA COLE: I believe it was handed outs to you at
10:08:56 the first public hearing.
10:08:58 And I do want to say in my tenure of the city which has
10:09:01 been almost six years, we never had these kind of
10:09:04 questions coming forward in terms of rezoning for
10:09:07 schools suns I have been here until for some strange
10:09:09 reason in the last few months.
10:09:11 So it's something that wasn't really on anybody's radar
10:09:15 I don't think there was that much of an understanding
10:09:20 until we got into the nuts and bolts.
10:09:23 I think we will all do a better job in the future when
10:09:26 these items come forward.
10:09:28 We do want to make sure citizens understand the role is
10:09:30 not to say, oh, we can't do anything.
10:09:32 The role is just to be there to place reasonable
10:09:34 conditions on its uses.
10:09:37 So I do want to make that clear, and I will make sure
10:09:39 that, yes, that provision is available to you, Ms.
10:09:43 I would like to make it available in previous
10:09:44 proceedings on this matter.
10:09:46 But that is where you are going forward on school board
10:09:50 >>MARY MULHERN: Since we had a similar case recently
10:09:57 where we had a very long discussion about the addition
10:09:59 at plant, and that was about classrooms, and it seemed
10:10:06 to me there was some discussion about what we -- what
10:10:09 our purview was, it wasn't that we don't have any say
10:10:13 in it.
10:10:14 So I'm sorry that I wasn't able to be here and ask
10:10:19 these questions then.
10:10:20 But I do want to read the statute.
10:10:26 It seems like it was a unanimous vote.
10:10:29 So I don't think it's going to make any difference.
10:10:32 But I would like to see that just to know.
10:10:38 >>JULIA COLE: Just so you know, the limitation is one
10:10:42 of placing these conditions on whatever request that
10:10:45 is, so with requests from the school board now and in
10:10:49 the future to put in a new school, et cetera, your role
10:10:53 as members of City Council is to review the
10:10:57 application, and if necessary to place any reasonable
10:11:01 conditions on the use of the property and the manner
10:11:04 being reflected.
10:11:05 >> But my question is because this is a parking lot,
10:11:12 not part of a school.
10:11:13 >> But it would be considered Bart of what it is they
10:11:16 are required to do, to comply with their codes.
10:11:19 The other part of this is school boards have their own
10:11:22 set of building codes, have their own set of parking
10:11:25 requirements, et cetera.
10:11:25 So that is part and parcel of that separate public
10:11:29 entity's obligation to put in place, and therefore
10:11:32 would be part of their authority under Florida statute.
10:11:36 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to ask if council would
10:11:43 give me a little time just to read this, and we can
10:11:46 vote on it in a little bit.
10:11:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I was just going to say that the
10:11:53 petitioner made a really good case for why this is a
10:11:57 good idea.
10:11:57 And it's currently -- the projections will be used for
10:12:00 a parking lot now, but that perhaps in five years it
10:12:03 would actually be used for school structures, and that
10:12:06 the piece of property is located in between Gorrie and
10:12:11 Wilson, so it could be absolutely catty-corner to both
10:12:16 to be used for overflow parking.
10:12:18 They made a really good case I think is why it was a
10:12:22 unanimous vote.
10:12:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you still want to hold that?
10:12:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just defer it to later in the
10:12:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I saw Ms. Grimes.
10:12:34 I don't know whether you want to address council.
10:12:37 But at public hearing we could defer it.
10:12:39 It hasn't been closed obviously.
10:12:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I would like to defer it to later
10:12:43 in the meeting.
10:12:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you want to speak?
10:12:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You can save your comments and hold
10:12:48 them if you wish.
10:12:49 >>GINA GRIMES: Hill ward Henderson, 101 East Kennedy.
10:12:53 I have been sworn.
10:12:54 I was just going to mention that we included in the
10:12:57 materials that were in the public hearing three weeks
10:13:00 ago a copy of the statute, the same statutory provision
10:13:04 we submitted into the record at the hearing on the
10:13:08 planned expansion, and Ms. Saul-Sena is correct.
10:13:11 While the issues for parking one of the alternative
10:13:16 uses is for future school buildings, so this is
10:13:19 something that's going to be probably most likely a
10:13:22 temporary use.
10:13:23 So similar to the plant application and at some point
10:13:27 in time it may be used for a school building.
10:13:29 >> And I have this.
10:13:31 >> I would like to direct your attention to subsection
10:13:35 13 -- 10-13.33 where it specifically says that the site
10:13:40 is consistent with the comp plan, land use policies and
10:13:43 categories in which schools are identified as allowable
10:13:45 uses, a local government may not deny the application,
10:13:50 but it may impose reasonable development, traditions
10:13:53 and standards in accordance with 10-13-51-1 and
10:13:58 consider the site plan and its adequacy as relates to
10:14:02 health, safety, welfare, and effects on adjacent
10:14:04 property, and we did make several changes to the site
10:14:07 plan as a result of council direction and motion
10:14:14 including several aesthetic changes dealing with black
10:14:19 decorative metal fencing, and then also in another
10:14:23 neighborhood association is aware of this because they
10:14:24 are now working with the board foundation to develop a
10:14:30 hedge and pay for the cost of the ornamental fencing
10:14:35 along South Boulevard.
10:14:39 And to also work with them on some historical lighting.
10:14:42 >>MARY MULHERN: Can you tell me the subsection?
10:14:48 I think it's highlighted.
10:14:53 >> Paren 13.
10:14:54 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
10:14:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Any more clarification, Mrs. Mulhern?
10:15:02 >>MARY MULHERN: I want to read this but I still would
10:15:04 like to delay voting.
10:15:06 >>GWEN MILLER: We will go to item number 71.
10:15:09 Is there anyone in the public that would like to speak
10:15:11 on item 71?
10:15:12 >> Move to close.
10:15:17 >> Second.
10:15:17 >> Motion and second to close.
10:15:19 Mr. Miranda, would you read that, please?
10:15:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Madam Chair, an ordinance presented
10:15:25 for second reading and adoption, an ordinance rezoning
10:15:27 property in the general vicinity of 4920 east Busch
10:15:29 Boulevard in the city of Tampa, Florida and more
10:15:31 particularly described in section 1 from zoning
10:15:34 district classifications RM-24 residential multifamily
10:15:38 to CG commercial general providing an effective date.
10:15:41 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:15:45 Vote and record.
10:15:52 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Scott being absent.
10:15:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
10:15:57 would like to speak on item 72?
10:15:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
10:16:04 >> Second.
10:16:04 (Motion carried).
10:16:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move the following
10:16:09 ordinance for second reading and adoption.
10:16:11 An ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity
10:16:13 of 310 south Habana Avenue in the city of Tampa,
10:16:17 Florida and more particularly described in section 1
10:16:20 from zoning district classifications RM-16 residential
10:16:23 multifamily to PD planned development,
10:16:26 business/professional office, single family
10:16:29 semi-detached congregate living facility 6 or fewer,
10:16:34 providing an effective date.
10:16:34 >> Second.
10:16:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Vote and record.
10:16:44 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Scott being absent.
10:16:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 73 is a public hearing.
10:16:51 We need to open the public hearing.
10:16:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
10:16:55 >> Second.
10:16:55 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor?
10:17:01 Opposed, Nay?
10:17:02 If you are going to speak on item 73, would you please
10:17:04 stand and raise your right hand?
10:17:06 (Oath administered by Clerk).
10:17:17 >> Ron: Staff for historic preservation.
10:17:20 Item 73, we are going to review an ad valorem tax
10:17:22 exemption for the structure located at 1609 North
10:17:24 Franklin Street that's currently owned by the Franklin
10:17:27 Street group LLC.
10:17:30 And it's partner Downtown Franklin Multiple Listing
10:17:36 I have an aerial here so you will better understand
10:17:39 where the property is located.
10:17:40 It's highlighted in the yellow box that fronts Franklin
10:17:44 Street to the west. To the north you have Henderson,
10:17:47 to the south you have Estrella, and to the east you
10:17:51 have Florida Avenue.
10:17:55 As some reference points, you have Stetson law school
10:17:58 to the west, you have Busch Ross to the northwest and
10:18:04 the Salvation Army just to the north.
10:18:08 These are some historic photos of the property.
10:18:12 If somebody comes up with a request for rehabilitation,
10:18:15 We did some research so we could guide them and get the
10:18:18 most accurate depiction of the building after
10:18:22 You see here by the arrow, you see the building in
10:18:24 question, you see the signage that was here in the
10:18:27 early 1900s.
10:18:29 You see the upper transoms and the lower display
10:18:36 This photo here is log down Franklin to the south once
10:18:40 again, the building is this one here, not the one on
10:18:44 the corner, the one in.
10:18:45 You see the larger display windows with the recessed
10:18:49 entrance and then the upper transom.
10:18:52 Prior to rehabilitation, the structure was in this
10:18:58 After rehabilitation, taking the queues from historic
10:19:02 photos --
10:19:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We can't see that very well.
10:19:07 Do you have a better one, or can you make it lighter?
10:19:13 It on the monitors.
10:19:14 That's great.
10:19:15 >> You have the lower transom how it's returned back
10:19:17 with the recessed panels.
10:19:19 The recessed, the two divisions on the storefront, and
10:19:22 then the transom of the appropriate division.
10:19:25 This building has clear glass on it.
10:19:27 This is a reflection of the building across the street.
10:19:30 We took many different photos and we couldn't get the
10:19:32 reflection out of it.
10:19:33 So this is a clearer indication of what it looks like.
10:19:37 This is the upper portion, the parapet portion here,
10:19:40 with appropriate signage.
10:19:43 Moving total enter your, it was just an open space, not
10:19:53 Two photos of that.
10:19:54 And moving to the enter your, how it is today.
10:19:57 It does function as a woodworking shop.
10:20:01 The volume was left uninterrupted from the ceiling to
10:20:05 the floor.
10:20:06 And then they brought in the traditional mechanicals
10:20:09 and some lighting in there to be as effective as
10:20:12 This is the solution for ADA, as you come in the front
10:20:16 door, very sensitive solution with appropriate
10:20:20 And just the last photo I have is just showing having
10:20:23 completed a sensitive rehabilitation all the way down
10:20:26 to the hardware.
10:20:32 This building is consistent with the Secretary of
10:20:33 Interior standards to the rehabilitation and all of our
10:20:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I hope that you make these pictures
10:20:40 available to people who are considering rehab.
10:20:42 This is such a great example.
10:20:44 And this is done by Mindy Snyder's husband, former city
10:20:51 employee retired, but such a great example of rehab,
10:20:54 and it's doing so much for that corridor.
10:20:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Kert, do you want to speak?
10:21:05 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
10:21:06 There should be an ordinance, and it should be for
10:21:09 first reading.
10:21:09 >> Is there anyone in the public that wants to speak on
10:21:13 item 73?
10:21:18 Need to close.
10:21:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
10:21:20 >> Second.
10:21:21 (Motion carried).
10:21:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move an ordinance approving a
10:21:26 historical preservation property tax exemption
10:21:28 application related to the historical restoration,
10:21:31 renovation, rehabilitation of certain properties owned
10:21:34 by Franklin Street group LLC located at 1609 North
10:21:38 Franklin Street, Tampa, Florida, in the North Franklin
10:21:42 downtown multiple properties listing group historic
10:21:45 district, the same providing for notice of the
10:21:49 property, appraisers of Hillsborough County, providing
10:21:52 for severability, providing for repeal of all
10:21:56 ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.
10:21:57 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
10:21:59 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
10:22:00 Opposed, Nay.
10:22:01 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Scott being absent.
10:22:04 Second reading of the ordinance will be held March
10:22:06 4th at 9:30 a.m.
10:22:08 >>GWEN MILLER: We go now to staff reports.
10:22:12 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm ready to vote on that other item.
10:22:18 I don't want to keep people here.
10:22:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Let's go back to item 70.
10:22:22 Anyone in the public wants to speak on item 70?
10:22:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to close.
10:22:27 >> Second.
10:22:27 (Motion carried).
10:22:31 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm going to vote no.
10:22:33 And I just want to say why.
10:22:38 I think obviously there's a good strong legal argument
10:22:46 of that we can't impose too many restrictions, but
10:22:53 since this is a complicated statute, and I haven't had
10:22:57 time to read the whole thing, but in one part that is
10:23:01 highlighted strikes me as may be questionable in that
10:23:09 subsection 13 it says: But it may impose reasonable
10:23:12 development standards and conditions in accordance with
10:23:16 10-13.51, which I haven't had a chance to read, and
10:23:20 consider the site plan and its adequacy as it relates
10:23:23 to environmental concerns, health, safety, welfare,
10:23:28 effects on adjacent property, standards and conditions.
10:23:31 So this is why I am voting no.
10:23:36 I want to have it on record that I'm not convinced that
10:23:40 we don't -- might not have a little bit more room to
10:23:48 opine on this as the zoning body for the city.
10:23:53 And I'm worried about this as a precedent.
10:23:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Would you read item 70?
10:24:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Before I do, I just want to share
10:24:04 something that's interesting to me.
10:24:05 This particular site is not part of the Hyde Park
10:24:09 historic overlay.
10:24:10 It this weird little connection of Hyde Park that isn't
10:24:15 But the school board, frankly, has improved
10:24:19 dramatically in the last few years in terms of being
10:24:22 sensitive to historic school sites, historic
10:24:25 properties, and even developments adjacent to that.
10:24:28 So I'm very hopeful that on this and in the future they
10:24:32 will continue to reflect the design characteristics and
10:24:36 standards even if they aren't bound legally to do it,
10:24:39 they have been doing it, and I really appreciate that.
10:24:41 And I see that as a tremendous cooperative step forward
10:24:44 in working with you to make sure our neighborhoods that
10:24:48 are historic in nature have the consistency which
10:24:51 frankly attracts everyone to be in those neighborhoods
10:24:53 in the first place.
10:24:53 So thank you for your cooperation.
10:24:55 Number 70.
10:24:56 Move an ordinance for second reading and adoption.
10:25:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
10:25:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: An ordinance rezoning property in
10:25:02 the general vicinity of 503 and 505 South Boulevard in
10:25:06 the city of Tampa, Florida and more particularly
10:25:08 described in section 1 from zoning district
10:25:10 classifications PD planned development, retail,
10:25:12 residential, office, to PD, planned development,
10:25:15 retail, residential, office, school parking, school,
10:25:18 providing an effective date.
10:25:18 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:25:20 Vote and record.
10:25:20 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern voting no and
10:25:33 Scott being absent.
10:25:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 74 we have at 10:30. It's not yet
10:25:49 Should we go ahead since we have staff here?
10:25:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 74?
10:25:56 >>GWEN MILLER: All of them.
10:25:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Close enough.
10:25:58 >>GWEN MILLER: We are going to go ahead.
10:25:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You also have the agenda items that
10:26:01 you pulled as well.
10:26:03 You can take those up first.
10:26:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Take those first?
10:26:09 Item 26.
10:26:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No, 29.
10:26:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 29.
10:26:20 Thank you.
10:26:29 Skip, are you there of? Item 29 was the GSQ question,
10:26:34 the group we use out of Tallahassee for the special
10:26:37 services, fees, that we assess stormwater fee and that
10:26:41 sort of thing.
10:26:45 My initial question was related to the dollar amount
10:26:47 because every year we spend, you know, 50, $60,000 to
10:26:51 have this outside group help us put the stormwater
10:26:54 assessment on the bill, but then I got an e-mail from
10:26:57 Steve Daignault, and Chip and I talked about it, and
10:27:00 I'm okay with the dollar amount.
10:27:06 But then Chip and I had a great discussion, I want to
10:27:10 give him credit, the possibility that maybe we don't
10:27:11 have to go through this exercise every year, that maybe
10:27:14 we can do it every two or three years instead, and then
10:27:18 I think we can probably save manpower and also money.
10:27:22 And not only related to the stormwater fee but possibly
10:27:25 also related to the other special district fees
10:27:29 including the Westshore district, the downtown
10:27:32 district, and the trolley district, which are the only
10:27:35 fees which come to my mind.
10:27:37 But, anyway, I just wanted to bring that up and let you
10:27:40 speak to it quickly and see if we can research that
10:27:44 down the road.
10:27:45 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: City attorney.
10:27:47 Our practice here has been to readopt all the special
10:27:50 assessments every year for those, that councilman
10:27:55 kicked indicated.
10:27:56 For most assessments there's not a requirement to be
10:27:59 adopted annually.
10:28:00 They can be put in place, unless there's statutory
10:28:04 limits, and methodology changes, so we do have the
10:28:08 option of putting these in place for longer period of
10:28:12 The stormwater fee we do need to do some research.
10:28:16 There is some case law on that to fully understand what
10:28:18 the flexibility is there.
10:28:20 But it is something that would save, we believe, the
10:28:23 city some expense potentially on a contract basis and
10:28:28 also with workload.
10:28:29 So if that was amenable to council, that would be
10:28:32 something that we could look at as a cost savings
10:28:35 With that --
10:28:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: With that I will make a motion that
10:28:40 we ask legal to research that and come back to us in 90
10:28:44 days. With that I'll move item 29.
10:28:45 >>MARY MULHERN: With Chip there, can I ask a question?
10:28:51 Are you talking about just not hiring an outside
10:28:56 service to --
10:28:59 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: If I may.
10:29:00 >>MARY MULHERN: Don't we have to ask --
10:29:05 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: There's a couple different pieces
10:29:06 and the stormwater one is a little more complicated
10:29:09 because the actual calculation is based on the size of
10:29:11 the lot, the impervious surface, a number of factors.
10:29:15 This particular contract would probably need to
10:29:18 continue to update the information every year.
10:29:21 But we wouldn't have to go through all the other things
10:29:26 related to the process of setting the assessment, which
10:29:31 may include part of what this contract is for but would
10:29:33 not include all of it.
10:29:35 But in addition to that, we do a fairly elaborate
10:29:40 process to do these every year so there's staff time,
10:29:42 there's mailing, we contract some of it, some of it is
10:29:47 paid out directly from the assessment.
10:29:49 So if we were able to eliminate that process, there
10:29:52 would be cost savings that would free up assessment
10:29:54 dollars for other things, and there would be staff time
10:29:58 >>MARY MULHERN: Right, but, for instance, if it was
10:30:01 the Westshore alliance, they would -- if we couldn't
10:30:06 vote to change it -- you're saying it would be every
10:30:12 three years that we would change it?
10:30:15 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: The next time that came up, for
10:30:17 example, stab it for a period of years rather than one
10:30:20 year and at that point talk about what that duration
10:30:22 would be and, yes, consulting with the Westshore
10:30:27 alliance would be appropriate.
10:30:28 >>MARY MULHERN: There would be no change without --
10:30:31 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: There would be no change in the
10:30:34 It set without them being notified, which in most of
10:30:36 these cases means no change in the fee.
10:30:39 >> We have to spend more time on storm bought because
10:30:46 there may be changes in the actual fee even though
10:30:48 there's not a change in the methodology.
10:30:50 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.
10:30:52 I just worry about the members of the district always
10:30:57 being apprised if there's going to be any change.
10:31:00 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: In coordination with those
10:31:04 entities it would obviously be appropriate.
10:31:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I move item 29.
10:31:08 >> Second.
10:31:09 (Motion carried).
10:31:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I would like to ask legal to come
10:31:13 back to us on all of these special districts, and this
10:31:17 idea of maybe 90 days.
10:31:20 Or sooner if they have something and want to come back
10:31:26 >> Second.
10:31:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just for a staff report.
10:31:31 >>GWEN MILLER: A written report?
10:31:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No, a verbal report.
10:31:35 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:31:38 All in favor say Aye.
10:31:39 Opposed, Nay.
10:31:40 Other items pulled?
10:31:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The next one is item 39.
10:31:53 Chip, this is yours as well.
10:31:55 This is sort of a convoluted legal issue but item 39,
10:32:01 the city -- and it's a very good thing -- we want to go
10:32:05 out and do an audit of Office Depot because of our
10:32:08 contractual relation with Office Depot, and it's
10:32:11 complicated issue that I think we have discussed in the
10:32:15 And we want to make sure that we are getting all the
10:32:17 discounts and being treated appropriately in our
10:32:20 contract with Office Depot, so that's a good thing.
10:32:23 Office Depot apparently is telling us that we can't
10:32:26 come in and do the audit unless we sign a
10:32:29 confidentiality agreement, which I guess is sort of
10:32:31 standard in some of these situations.
10:32:34 The only question I had in reading it is I think the
10:32:36 confidentiality agreement that they are asking for is
10:32:39 overly broad.
10:32:41 And I did some legal research yesterday on the issue.
10:32:46 It appears that they can ask for confidentiality from
10:32:48 public records disclosure as related specifically to
10:32:53 trade secrets, and that there is a trade secret
10:32:57 exception to the public records act, and that's state
10:32:59 law, and that's the way it is.
10:33:01 I don't necessarily agree with it but that's the way it
10:33:04 But the contractor -- the agreement they are asking us
10:33:08 to sign is broader than that, and they speak to
10:33:11 anything that they deem to be confidential as compared
10:33:15 to specifically trade secrets.
10:33:19 And I know it sounds like splitting hair, and that's
10:33:24 what we lawyers do.
10:33:25 But, anyway, I have a little bit of a problem with it.
10:33:27 I have expressed it to Chip, and Sal.
10:33:33 >>SAL TERRITO: The agreement does two things does deal
10:33:37 with confidentiality.
10:33:38 The third will be on Office Depot to assert the
10:33:42 If they are going to assert the certain documents as
10:33:44 confidential, then they are going to have to come in
10:33:46 and defend that.
10:33:47 That's what the second part of this agreement does.
10:33:49 It requires them to defend it.
10:33:51 The confidentiality requirement is basically an
10:33:54 affirmative defense.
10:33:55 We are required to produce any records that are deemed
10:33:59 to be public records.
10:34:00 They'll make a determination at some point that they
10:34:02 may think that certain records are not public records.
10:34:06 Rather than putting the burden on us to defend that,
10:34:08 they will come in and defend that.
10:34:09 They will pay all the fees associated with that, be
10:34:12 they will pay any consequences associated with that.
10:34:15 We will not be holding back any records that we deem to
10:34:18 be public records unless some court tells us otherwise,
10:34:24 and the burden is going to be on Office Depot to do
10:34:26 that, not the city.
10:34:28 And that's what this agreement is trying to do.
10:34:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm not going to support it because
10:34:33 I think it makes it sort of complicit in their
10:34:37 I think that basically they are trying to hide some of
10:34:41 There's been a lot of public discourse about this
10:34:43 master agreement that's being used all across the
10:34:46 country by governments.
10:34:47 And I think that it sort of makes us participate in
10:34:57 their secrets.
10:34:58 And frankly, I think it's too broad.
10:35:01 I think we should go in there and demand an audit and
10:35:04 say if you want to deem something a trade secret
10:35:06 because Florida statute says that trade secrets are
10:35:09 protected, that's fine because that's what Florida
10:35:12 statutes allows.
10:35:13 But I think this goes further than Florida stats United
10:35:14 States allows.
10:35:15 And I think that it really makes us violate in sort of
10:35:19 a round-about way, I think it makes us part of sort of
10:35:23 participate in violation of public records act, or at
10:35:25 least the spirit of the public records act.
10:35:28 So I won't be supporting it.
10:35:30 And frankly I prefer us to go back and renegotiate with
10:35:33 Office Depot and see if they will tweak that agreement
10:35:37 to just address the trade secrets.
10:35:40 >>MARY MULHERN: You have read that --
10:35:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes, I spent way too much time on
10:35:48 I read the agreement.
10:35:50 I read some case law, spent a couple hours on it
10:35:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone like to move 39?
10:35:58 >> Would you repeat that again?
10:36:00 Because way heard from you and way heard from a lawyer
10:36:03 who is a council member who is not a lawyer at the
10:36:06 present makes no sense to me from either one of you.
10:36:09 I want to hear the clarity of the facts, one saying you
10:36:12 can't do it, and the other saying it's fine, it puts
10:36:17 the burden on them, the other saying no, they are know
10:36:20 good, this and the other.
10:36:24 Go play tennis for two hours and come back and sweat it
10:36:27 I don't know what in the world is going on between 39
10:36:31 and the real facts.
10:36:32 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: City attorney.
10:36:35 Let me just kind of address the policy issue for
10:36:38 council, because I think there is one.
10:36:43 Basically we are in a dispute with Office Depot about
10:36:45 our right to audit their records based on the series of
10:36:48 contracts that they have used to do business with them.
10:36:50 As a way of settling that dispute, what they have
10:36:55 offered is their standard confidentiality contract,
10:36:58 which probably 85% of it is their standard
10:37:01 confidentiality contract which works in business
10:37:03 context, with a provision that basically says if
10:37:11 there's anything in here which is inconsistent with the
10:37:13 public records law, we will defend that, and indemnify
10:37:20 the city.
10:37:21 Now, the definition of confidentiality that they use is
10:37:25 very, very similar, but not exactly the same as the
10:37:28 trade secrets exemption in our statute, the public
10:37:31 records act.
10:37:32 So as a way of resolving this dispute and essentially
10:37:38 like a settlement between the two of us, this is an
10:37:41 approach of that we felt was comfortable because it
10:37:43 references the public records act and doesn't provide
10:37:46 in our view any protection beyond the public records
10:37:50 Now, I can't disagree with the statement that the way
10:37:54 the term confidential information is used here is a
10:37:56 little bit broader than what is in the trade secrets
10:38:01 But it's a compromise.
10:38:04 It is a settlement of the dispute.
10:38:06 It allows us to get in an audit a lot faster than if we
10:38:09 had to litigate our authority to audit.
10:38:12 And that's the long and the short of it.
10:38:14 So if council is not comfortable with that approach to
10:38:18 dealing with the issue, then council can vote against
10:38:21 But it will limit potentially prevent us from going in
10:38:25 and auditing without extensive litigation.
10:38:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Is this a stand-alone item or do
10:38:36 other corporations have the same or likewise same type
10:38:39 of agreements?
10:38:40 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: This type of approach is not
10:38:44 What my preference would be, frankly, is to use the
10:38:47 definition of the trade secrets in our statute which
10:38:52 for businesses -- Florida businesses we typically do.
10:38:56 This is not a Florida business so we have not been able
10:38:58 to reach that accommodation but it is a very common
10:39:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: May I continue one more and I'm
10:39:06 Are we saying the only ones that can provide us what we
10:39:08 are buying is only available from Office Depot or from
10:39:11 other sources?
10:39:12 >> I'm sorry, could you repeat?
10:39:14 >> Were you saying in this item 39 that we continue to
10:39:16 purchase from Office Depot, or are there other vendors
10:39:22 who would meet the same qualifications?
10:39:24 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: This is not changing any of our
10:39:27 procurement practices.
10:39:27 >> You can buy from anybody you want?
10:39:29 >> Whoever we have a contract with right now or whoever
10:39:31 we have a contract with in the future we can buy from.
10:39:33 >>MARY MULHERN: So this isn't part of the contract?
10:39:38 This is part of the litigation?
10:39:41 >> This is an independent contract.
10:39:43 This is just our ability to go in and figure out if
10:39:46 they owe us money.
10:39:52 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to see you -- I would
10:39:54 like to support Mr. Dingfelder and see you go back to
10:39:59 the table and tell them that we want them to adopt our
10:40:05 language, our statute language, statutory trade secrets
10:40:13 >> If I may, Madam Chair.
10:40:18 We have made that attempt with them.
10:40:20 If you all are comfortable -- aren't comfortable
10:40:25 agreeing to it we can take another shot, if we can't
10:40:27 get there, we may bring it back to you just one more
10:40:31 attempt to get it resolved.
10:40:32 We have taken that route.
10:40:36 But we can try again if that's council's pleasure.
10:40:38 >>MARY MULHERN: But I think Mr. Miranda makes an
10:40:41 excellent point that we don't -- they need us to buy
10:40:45 from them and we don't need to buy it from them.
10:40:48 >> This is somebody supposedly wanting to spend our
10:41:07 city money with them.
10:41:08 And so why don't we do this to send a message?
10:41:11 Why don't we reject item 39, okay, with no offense to
10:41:17 you, Chip, Sal, or the legal department, and the hard
10:41:21 work you have done.
10:41:21 But if we reject it we are sending a very strong
10:41:24 message that we don't like that broader language, that
10:41:28 we want them to go back to use the Florida statute
10:41:31 And then we are all comfortable with it.
10:41:33 And so on that basis I'll move to reject item 39 and
10:41:38 hopefully you can come back with better language.
10:41:39 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:41:43 All in favor say Aye.
10:41:44 Opposed, Nay.
10:41:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, council.
10:41:51 Thank you, Chip.
10:41:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Is that it?
10:41:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm getting there.
10:41:55 The next one was item 63 which staff just went and
10:41:59 explained it to me.
10:42:00 I'll move item 63.
10:42:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:42:02 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:42:04 (Motion carried).
10:42:06 >> They explained it to me yesterday but the
10:42:08 explanation yesterday wasn't satisfactory.
10:42:10 They came and reexplained it today which is better.
10:42:12 And item 65, who speaking is to that, Steve?
10:42:22 We entered into an agreement we've the southwest -- I
10:42:25 don't know who they are -- signal last year for
10:42:28 maintenance and repair and removal of traffic control
10:42:32 and streetlight systems, which is fine.
10:42:34 Now apparently we have some additional money for
10:42:37 something like that, and we want to go ahead and renew
10:42:42 the agreement for an additional year without bidding
10:42:49 Without bidding it.
10:42:50 And my point is, this is sort of a labor contract.
10:42:55 And from what I can see it a lot of labor.
10:42:57 It probably some parts but a lot of labor.
10:43:00 But I'm thinking to myself, in these economic times,
10:43:02 why aren't we bidding these things to get a cheaper
10:43:07 Everybody is hungry, okay.
10:43:10 These people have to be hungry.
10:43:11 This industry has to be hungry.
10:43:13 And I can't help but think that we can do a better job
10:43:16 if we rebid it.
10:43:18 And so that's where I'm coming from on item 65.
10:43:22 I'm sure -- sure it's a fine company.
10:43:24 I'm sure we have a God relationship with them.
10:43:26 I'm sure it was a good contract last year but now it's
10:43:29 a new million dollars that we are looking at and if we
10:43:32 can rebid it and maybe save 10% by getting them to
10:43:35 sharpen their pencils, why wouldn't we do that?
10:43:38 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Administrator for public works and
10:43:40 utility services.
10:43:42 This contract is specialty work, as it turns out.
10:43:46 They deal with our streetlights and the controllers and
10:43:48 that sort of thing for traffic control.
10:43:52 There's only a couple of companies that do this, and we
10:43:55 do bid this out on a regular basis.
10:43:59 This is a renewal of a contract that was award add
10:44:02 couple of years ago that has been a good contract, very
10:44:06 reliable, very responsive contractor.
10:44:09 That is has not always been the case, and we have some
10:44:13 high profile items, specifically the two weighing of
10:44:17 Polk, and Zack Street, and the item up in New Tampa
10:44:21 that is at regents park and Bruce B. Downs, that
10:44:29 So those items specifically are items that again this
10:44:32 contractor, we think the price are still competitive,
10:44:36 and we would still like to move ahead with it.
10:44:38 >> How do you know the prices are still competitive?
10:44:41 Because you didn't know I was pulling this item.
10:44:43 I didn't see anything in the background that indicated
10:44:45 that anybody had specifically checked.
10:44:50 Did you check?
10:44:51 >> We see what other bids are going out for these
10:44:53 items, and they don't change that much, again because
10:44:56 it is pretty much a specialty --
10:44:59 >> This is why we bid.
10:45:01 And if these people come back and they get the contract
10:45:03 again, fantastic.
10:45:05 They are doing a good job for us now, they will do a
10:45:08 good job for us later, but it a million dollars.
10:45:10 We are about to talk to Karen Palus in a few minutes
10:45:13 about five dollar feelings and $10 fees.
10:45:17 We are scraping.
10:45:18 And that comes out of the same fund.
10:45:20 It's the general fund.
10:45:21 So I just think that we should bid this.
10:45:25 And if we need to go into a temporary agreement with
10:45:28 them for a month or two, you know, while we are bidding
10:45:31 it, because we have some time delay, fine.
10:45:33 But I just think that we should bid it.
10:45:36 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: By approving this today, we will
10:45:40 just be again allowing yourself ourselves to continue
10:45:43 to use this contract.
10:45:45 It does not have to be for a year.
10:45:47 It's just for as long as we want to use them.
10:45:51 The contract will continue to be in existence.
10:45:53 We can still go forward and put together another bid
10:45:57 process and put this back out on the street.
10:45:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If you want to a sure me, this
10:46:03 councilman, that you will start the bidding process
10:46:06 today and you will rebid it within the next, you know,
10:46:10 60 days or whatever, I'll be fine to move this for
10:46:13 approval on that basis.
10:46:14 And that would be a good faith between you and me, and
10:46:17 I would be fine to move it.
10:46:18 I don't know what the rest of council would do.
10:46:21 But on that basis.
10:46:22 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: I can say that we will be moving
10:46:25 forward with putting it together in the normal process.
10:46:28 I can't guarantee you that it will be 60 days at this
10:46:31 moment, because I don't have all that under my control.
10:46:33 >> You have your purse string manager sitting there to
10:46:39 probably help you.
10:46:40 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: In reference to regent's park and
10:46:44 Bruce B. Downs, according to Mike Scanlan from the
10:46:46 traffic department, this is one of the second worst
10:46:49 intersections in the city.
10:46:51 It's impacting the traffic there.
10:46:54 One night I was on the phone with a city official and
10:46:56 he said, what's that noise?
10:46:58 I said I'm in the middle of the road and I can't move.
10:47:00 Some guy was blowing his horn.
10:47:03 Every day there's an accident at that intersection.
10:47:05 It needs to be done.
10:47:10 Evidently, this company has done a lot of work for the
10:47:13 I know it's hurting.
10:47:15 It needs to be corrected.
10:47:18 Every day there's property damage there.
10:47:20 Every day.
10:47:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to speak, if I may.
10:47:28 I'm listening to mixed signals, Madam Chair.
10:47:32 If you re-bid it, that's fine with me.
10:47:35 But what I'm hearing is 60 days are out, folks, when
10:47:39 you look at math, that's one sixth of a year.
10:47:46 Two months.
10:47:47 So could go three months.
10:47:50 What is that in math?
10:47:52 It may go four months before you get the bid back.
10:47:54 I don't know.
10:47:56 So you want to satisfy all the parties?
10:48:00 Do I think we are doing the right thing?
10:48:02 I believe if you tell me, sir, I have to take you for
10:48:08 your word, you are in trouble with other vendors in
10:48:13 this same arena, this same focus.
10:48:16 I certain don't want to have a vendor pull in a signal
10:48:19 that is faulty and then you create an accident, and now
10:48:22 through good attorneyship we find out we are going to
10:48:27 be held liable for something that somebody put out that
10:48:30 was inferior work.
10:48:31 Whether that's true or not, I really don't know.
10:48:34 But in this business, you have to make some type of
10:48:36 exception sometime in your life.
10:48:41 On one side I'm hearing one thing.
10:48:44 On the on the side hearing another thing about the
10:48:46 busiest intersection.
10:48:47 So I'm for passing this and taking your word that you
10:48:50 will rebid it or try to rebid it and what you come out
10:48:57 However, if it's higher than whoever made the motion
10:49:00 should pay for it.
10:49:02 [ Laughter ]
10:49:02 >> Salary.
10:49:08 >> That's questionable because there are others ha that
10:49:11 are going to be there, too.
10:49:13 What I am saying if that's the case then I'm all for
10:49:16 I haven't heard anything to change my mind yet.
10:49:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Clarification.
10:49:20 If we pass this, then you aren't going to rebid it.
10:49:23 If we pass this you will accept the contract for a
10:49:26 million dollars that's before us, correct?
10:49:28 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Council member, this contract will
10:49:31 expire in March.
10:49:32 If we approve this, then it will continue beyond March
10:49:35 and I will be able to continue to deal with and have
10:49:38 repairs to signals when we have accidents, when we have
10:49:42 I just need that annual contract.
10:49:45 I can terminate this contract at any time.
10:49:48 And so if we were to go out and rebid it some time
10:49:52 after you approve this, then we would stop using that
10:49:56 contract and move onto the next one.
10:49:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Council is interested in two
10:50:04 Obviously continuing to meet our needs in terms of
10:50:07 public safety.
10:50:08 And also to gets a good price.
10:50:10 Can you do the two things simultaneously?
10:50:13 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: My recommendation to you today is
10:50:15 to approve this so that I can continue to provide that
10:50:18 service, that we continue to service our needs at these
10:50:22 this signals.
10:50:23 I recognize, we all wants to do things as cheaply as we
10:50:27 possibly can.
10:50:27 At our end of the business, we also need to be
10:50:31 We need somebody to respond quickly when there's an
10:50:34 accident, when there is a need.
10:50:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Daignault, I have a suggestion
10:50:38 that's very Solomon, splitting the baby, saying six
10:50:41 months, to continue this for six months which will
10:50:43 allow more than adequate time to go and rebid it.
10:50:46 That will give you the continuity and also allow for
10:50:47 the rebidding.
10:50:48 That would be my motion.
10:50:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second to that motion.
10:50:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
10:50:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here is the problem.
10:50:57 Mr. Spearman, there's no brain surgery involved.
10:51:05 With all due respect, I used to do this purchasing.
10:51:08 There's nothing -- it's not that hard for us to get a
10:51:10 bid back on the street.
10:51:11 It's the same bid we have been doing.
10:51:13 And, Greg, we turn these things a around in 30, 60,
10:51:17 maybe at the most 90 days.
10:51:19 I don't know why we extend to the six moments.
10:51:22 So now half the year is gone and the potential savings
10:51:24 has drifted away.
10:51:26 So can't we just theoretically -- and I know we can't
10:51:32 bind the administration on this motion as Marty just
10:51:35 whispered in my ear, but can't we seriously just bid
10:51:39 this in 30, 60 days, and see what the view is?
10:51:45 >>GREG SPEARMAN: Director of purchasing.
10:51:46 We could do that.
10:51:47 But in support of Mr. Daignault's concerns, we may be
10:51:51 jeopardizing the city in terms of these intersections
10:51:55 and the --
10:51:57 >> The contract keeps going.
10:51:58 Even if you have a bid, the contract that we are
10:52:01 approving -- I'm saying we'll approve the contract
10:52:04 And the contract keeps going until you terminate it.
10:52:07 In the meantime you can rebid it.
10:52:08 My question specifically, Greg, can't you rebid this in
10:52:11 30, 60 days?
10:52:13 >> We can't rebid it within the 30 days.
10:52:21 With all due respect.
10:52:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I question whether the motion is in
10:52:25 And the reason I say this is because you have a
10:52:28 resolution before you to approve the contract as
10:52:31 You have the option of either voting it up or voting it
10:52:35 In six months you are going to in fact renegotiate a
10:52:37 contract --
10:52:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: But my motion is to approve or
10:52:40 reject the contract before us and for you to come back
10:52:43 at our next council meeting, which is in a week --
10:52:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Two weeks.
10:52:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Two weeks, with a six-month
10:52:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Fletcher?
10:52:58 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: If I understood the discussion
10:52:59 right, if I could make a suggestion which would be to
10:53:01 approve this contract with a request for them to come
10:53:04 back in six months regarding whether or not you are
10:53:07 going to rebid.
10:53:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No.
10:53:09 That's not my --
10:53:11 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Then your motion needs to just
10:53:14 deny the contract.
10:53:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My motion then is to reject this
10:53:18 contract, encouraging the administration, item number
10:53:22 65, because I know we can do better.
10:53:24 And I know that you can come back in two weeks with
10:53:26 something in six months, because a bird in the hand in
10:53:30 this economy means that they will be motivated to do
10:53:32 If they don't, then somebody else will.
10:53:35 >>MARY MULHERN: When this has come up before, we have
10:53:42 had contracts to renew, we have often, or at least the
10:53:47 few times I can remember just voted that down because
10:53:51 if you don't renew, you automatically are still under
10:53:56 That's what I've heard from you, Mr. Daignault, other
10:54:09 I agree with Mr. Miranda.
10:54:10 I trust your judgment on this.
10:54:12 I trust that you will come back with rebidding it.
10:54:19 I'll support Ms. Saul's first motion or whatever with
10:54:25 the understanding you are going to rebid.
10:54:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Shelby.
10:54:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You had a motion that Mrs. Saul-Sena
10:54:32 made on the floor regarding changing the terms of the
10:54:35 contract to six months.
10:54:36 That was seconded.
10:54:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I withdraw that and put in my
10:54:40 motion to deny.
10:54:41 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The motion now is to deny.
10:54:44 Is there a second on that one?
10:54:47 >>GWEN MILLER: No.
10:54:47 >>MARY MULHERN: I seconded the first one but not the
10:54:54 last one.
10:54:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: On one side you have this debate.
10:54:58 On the other side, what happens if nothing happens?
10:55:00 In other words, this contract ends, and you have an
10:55:04 incident where you need someone to go fix whatever you
10:55:07 got, at some intersection, and then you call these
10:55:10 people and they say, who are you?
10:55:12 I don't have a contract with you.
10:55:15 That could happen.
10:55:16 >> And they can charge any price they want.
10:55:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That could happen.
10:55:21 So what I'm saying it, it sounds great too read this
10:55:25 and feels great to hear this but in reality this is not
10:55:29 a pimple.
10:55:30 You just don't squeeze it and it's gone.
10:55:33 This is something that takes a lot more votes, and I
10:55:39 got your attention with the pimple, didn't I?
10:55:42 But what I'm saying is that this is a lot more in
10:55:46 detail, because it could happen.
10:55:48 These things do happen.
10:55:49 And you wouldn't need the lender.
10:55:52 You wouldn't need the contract ever.
10:55:54 So it does happen.
10:55:55 It does occur.
10:55:58 And now what do you do with director of public works?
10:56:02 They can charge you at whatever rate they want because
10:56:04 you do not have a contract with them.
10:56:06 There's two sides to every argument.
10:56:08 I tried to get to the middle of it.
10:56:10 >> That was my question.
10:56:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Daignault explained to us -- if we
10:56:18 pass number 65 he would come back to us and put out
10:56:21 another bid.
10:56:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Did he say that?
10:56:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes, he said he would come back.
10:56:27 Yes, did he.
10:56:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I withdraw my motion.
10:56:29 >>GWEN MILLER: So just give him a chance.
10:56:35 We are making a motion to give him six months.
10:56:37 Why don't we just pass this one and give him that time.
10:56:40 And I believe when he comes back he will have the bids
10:56:43 And that's what you are asking.
10:56:44 You want new bids and the bids to be coming back.
10:56:47 Mr. Dingfelder.
10:56:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And that's exactly what I was going
10:56:51 to say.
10:56:51 Steve and I go on each other's word a lot.
10:56:54 And once Steve says that he would rebid this, I would
10:56:57 like to see it rebid.
10:56:59 Greg said it could be rebid in 30, 60 days.
10:57:02 I am going to take you on your word that you all are
10:57:04 going to do that.
10:57:05 I pulled it because I think we can save money.
10:57:08 I'm going to move item 65 so we will have a contract in
10:57:11 It important we have this contract in place so the work
10:57:15 can continue, because this contract expires the first
10:57:17 week in March.
10:57:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Right.
10:57:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Which I think you guys should bring
10:57:21 the contracts to us earlier for the renewal, but that's
10:57:24 another issue. Anyway, I will move item 65.
10:57:28 And the side note is I am going to hold Steve to his
10:57:32 word, mano a mano that you will rebid this in the next
10:57:39 months or two.
10:57:39 >> We have a motion and second.
10:57:42 All in favor of? Opposed?
10:57:45 >>MARY MULHERN: I still have a question.
10:57:46 Because I'm going to support the motion.
10:57:50 But I asked you if we did not support the motion if the
10:57:57 contract would automatically continue.
10:58:06 >> As I said previously, this contract expires on March
10:58:09 After March 5th, if this is not approved, I do not
10:58:12 have a contract with this vendor.
10:58:14 >>MARY MULHERN: So what are these times when you come
10:58:17 in front of us and you tell us, is that a different
10:58:20 kind of contract, or renewable?
10:58:22 This is not a renewable contract.
10:58:23 Is that what you are saying?
10:58:25 >> This is renewable but it has to be renewed.
10:58:29 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Chip those all depend on what the
10:58:34 contract languages says.
10:58:36 Some automatically renew.
10:58:37 Some don't.
10:58:38 Some allow an extension.
10:58:38 >>MARY MULHERN: So that's the question, it's one of
10:58:43 those that automatically renews?
10:58:45 >> In this particular case, the answer is no.
10:58:47 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
10:58:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Mr. Daignault.
10:58:50 We now move on to staff reports.
10:58:52 Item 74.
10:58:53 >>KAREN PALUS: Parks and recreation director.
10:59:02 I'm here on item 74.
10:59:03 You had asked me to present some information regarding
10:59:07 three items, A, B and C, and I will go over them
10:59:11 Item A was the ability of the Parks and Recreation
10:59:12 Department to create a trade-off between the value done
10:59:18 for the Tampa community band, being charged fees.
10:59:23 As I believe some of you may be aware, we did offer Mr.
10:59:26 Solomon's group three options in which option 3 did
10:59:31 take into account by offering him the opportunity to
10:59:34 perform four times for us at a reduced rate and for the
10:59:39 weekly practices in which his group has requested at
10:59:43 Kate Jackson.
10:59:44 So he's got three options in which to work from.
10:59:47 One of which was an option but really one of the
10:59:52 biggest challenges this group is having and a couple
10:59:55 others that I will mention a little bit is the fact
10:59:56 that the majority of their participants are non-city
11:00:02 And so therein lies the challenge for them, about $115
11:00:07 as a non-city resident over the $15 for a city
11:00:11 So those folks that typically go to like a club
11:00:14 atmosphere, we have had some challenges with a couple
11:00:16 of those folks, one with of which was the private
11:00:19 group, the twirlers, the square dancing group out of
11:00:26 Barksdale and was predominantly nonresidents as well
11:00:29 and we worked with a couple of options they want to
11:00:32 keep and remain their club very private, and we have
11:00:34 got another band that was doing a very similar type
11:00:37 thing, but again they collected fees and wanted to keep
11:00:40 that private as well.
11:00:41 So we have tried to work with each of the groups and
11:00:44 provide options, and we are still willing to work with
11:00:46 them, but we have given Mr. Solomon's group right now
11:00:49 three options at this time.
11:00:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
11:00:51 Since there are several parks related issues if we
11:00:54 could take them one at a time.
11:00:59 I was very interested in you offering a fourth option,
11:01:01 which would be that the Tampa community band gave us
11:01:06 all a copy of all their performances, which are for the
11:01:11 benefit of the community, they are free, these aren't
11:01:15 paid musician, they are all volunteers, they are doing
11:01:17 it for the love of music and performing for free in our
11:01:20 public venues.
11:01:21 I would like to see a fourth option, and I need
11:01:25 clarification from legal.
11:01:26 Can we dictate the fees charged by parks and rec, is
11:01:34 that within council's purview?
11:01:36 >> You can set by resolution of council.
11:01:38 >> So we can do that.
11:01:39 My fourth option idea is if they provide these public
11:01:42 concerts, which indeed they do, in fact they provide
11:01:44 more than four, that we don't charge them any fee at
11:01:47 all, because my understanding is they are using a room
11:01:51 at one of our rec centers.
11:01:54 They don't require supervision.
11:01:56 They don't require any particular -- anything other
11:01:59 than the recreation center being opened, the lights
11:02:02 being on.
11:02:03 These are responsible grownups who clean up after
11:02:06 themselves, and I would like to make a resolution that
11:02:12 we -- offer them a fourth option, that if they
11:02:15 perform -- and this wouldn't be specific to this group,
11:02:19 that any group that provides a specific public service
11:02:22 such as four concerts year or four something a year, if
11:02:29 they want to practice at our facility and it doesn't
11:02:31 require, now, firing up a KILN or something additional,
11:02:35 just physically using the room, that we don't charge
11:02:38 them additional fees.
11:02:40 And I want to hear from my colleagues.
11:02:42 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Just to be clear we are not
11:02:46 talking about a special fee for this group, talking
11:02:51 about changing the fee schedule that council adopted
11:02:53 previously to create a new category that would
11:02:56 essentially do what Ms. Palus' third option was, where
11:03:03 the entity provides a service within -- a free service
11:03:07 within the system, that they would -- that would be
11:03:10 kind of the in-kind for the fee.
11:03:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you for clarifying it.
11:03:23 I don't think we need a resolution.
11:03:24 I think it's the option 3.
11:03:26 But the way Mr. Fletcher stated it, that it isn't
11:03:32 specific to this group, it specific to any public group
11:03:35 that provides a public service specifically defined for
11:03:39 the public.
11:03:40 If there were cloggers.
11:03:43 If the cloggers practiced and performed public clogging
11:03:46 and that makes people happy, that that would be, you
11:03:48 know --
11:03:50 >>MARY MULHERN: (off microphone).
11:03:54 >>KAREN PALUS: If I could address the council.
11:03:57 I want you all to keep in mind that this is one group.
11:04:00 It is.
11:04:00 However, we have multiple groups out there utilizing
11:04:05 our facilities that are doing these kind of services
11:04:08 throughout the City of Tampa.
11:04:10 Not specifically to our sites, and that's what option 3
11:04:13 Mr. Solomon's group is not providing to the City of
11:04:21 He's providing services in Carrollwood.
11:04:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: He would be required to do four
11:04:28 >> That's what the option 3 is.
11:04:34 >> And I believe they are capable of doing it and I
11:04:36 believe they are capable of doing it now.
11:04:38 He's kind of nodding that they are.
11:04:40 This would be very specifically they would be required
11:04:42 to give four benefit concerts for our citizens in
11:04:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Only if you are the lead singer.
11:04:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: You don't know what you are getting
11:04:57 The other thing they change is talk about work as man
11:05:01 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: If I could make a suggestion.
11:05:05 City attorney.
11:05:06 If I'm hearing this right, taking what Karen had
11:05:08 described as the option, what I would suggest is we try
11:05:13 to draft something and bring back to you something that
11:05:18 would fit that schedule, without creating other issues.
11:05:21 Because we do need to make sure that it's something
11:05:24 that's going to work and is applicable across the
11:05:27 And figure out how it fits in with the revenues.
11:05:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The motion would be that legal come
11:05:32 back with what we both have been discussing.
11:05:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll second it but I do think it
11:05:40 needs to be generic, so we are not just speaking to
11:05:43 this particular group, because apparently there are a
11:05:45 few on the groups out there in similar situations, and
11:05:49 I think they should be treated favorably as well.
11:05:52 >>GWEN MILLER: So the other groups out there, they
11:05:54 have to participate the same way --
11:05:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Whatever they do, they would have
11:05:59 to do it for the benefit of our parks and recreation,
11:06:03 at least four times a year.
11:06:06 And not just at the end, to specifically benefit parks
11:06:10 and recreation, because that's the universal.
11:06:15 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
11:06:18 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
11:06:19 Opposed, Nay.
11:06:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Legal come back to us at the
11:06:23 meeting March 4th with this.
11:06:25 It's not that complicated.
11:06:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I just want to make sure that's part
11:06:42 of the motion, that it show up on the agenda?
11:06:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That it's part of the agenda in,
11:06:46 written form is fine.
11:06:47 >>KAREN PALUS: There's two other items.
11:06:51 You asked to speak in regards to the new fee structure
11:06:53 that resulted in program of Parks and Recreation
11:06:54 Department being canceled.
11:06:57 As related to specifically our department canceling
11:06:59 programs, the fee structure has not impacted us in that
11:07:03 way at this time.
11:07:05 It has reduced some of our programming as you heard
11:07:08 from some of our folks today regarding after-school
11:07:11 program and such, which we anticipated back and
11:07:15 continue to work towards sharing that information.
11:07:17 I can talk a little more about what you heard
11:07:19 specifically, but as far as us canceling programs, that
11:07:23 has not been the case, as regards specifically to the
11:07:26 fee schedule.
11:07:27 We have, however, in programs, there's been a multitude
11:07:34 of things around Kate Jackson that has reduced the
11:07:37 number of attendance at that location on the beyond the
11:07:40 fee schedule.
11:07:41 We have the school closed down.
11:07:43 We have another school running its own after-school
11:07:47 We have limited facilities at that location.
11:07:48 We have gone through the school year with between four
11:07:51 to eight children participating after school.
11:07:53 What we have done is meeting with the parents to
11:07:57 incorporate them into our Cyrus green facility up the
11:08:01 road from them, and we have been looking at that with
11:08:03 our different locations to see how consolidating some
11:08:05 of those programs will make more sense beyond just the
11:08:08 facility, but also for those students, so they have the
11:08:11 opportunity to interact with more children,
11:08:15 participating in more facilities that have more to
11:08:17 So we have been looking through that through all of our
11:08:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Palus, we had heard earlier that at
11:08:30 oaks and yacht center enrollment has gone down at the
11:08:34 after-school because the fee had gone up.
11:08:36 >>KAREN PALUS: There has been a reduction.
11:08:39 We anticipated that.
11:08:41 But I will share one of the things we have been working
11:08:43 with and I can go back to the specific questions if you
11:08:45 like me to in regards to the scholarship and the
11:08:48 reduced fees.
11:08:49 For example, Cyrus green is one with that has seen a
11:08:53 reduction and they are running about 49 participants in
11:08:56 39 of those folks are on reduced fee program.
11:08:59 So they are paying five or ten dollars a week for the
11:09:02 program that was initially slated for 25.
11:09:04 We have a reduced sliding scale.
11:09:06 It's very confidential.
11:09:07 Very private and very quick.
11:09:09 We are doing that on-site.
11:09:11 I know I heard the scholarships, you have to go to
11:09:16 That's not true.
11:09:16 They can actually fill out the scholarship.
11:09:20 They can fill out the scholarship fund site.
11:09:22 We have also been bringing our fiscal folks, so it's
11:09:25 private and confidential.
11:09:26 It's not the staff that are working with the kids and
11:09:28 the families day in and day out.
11:09:30 It's it our fiscal folks that come out to the site.
11:09:33 We scheduled those.
11:09:34 We let the families know they can come in, bring their
11:09:36 information, go through the paperwork, and they know
11:09:42 then and there where they fall.
11:09:44 We processed over 950 folks through the sliding scale
11:09:47 We also offered over 30 scholarships thus far.
11:09:51 >>GWEN MILLER: So they do have right to scholarships?
11:09:54 >>KAREN PALUS: Definitely.
11:09:56 And the ones that are handling our scholarships, even
11:09:59 if they fall for reduced fee and still have a hardship,
11:10:03 they can apply for those scholarships.
11:10:06 They have been working a fund raiser to incorporate
11:10:09 In fact they just received an $11,000 grant for this
11:10:12 year's scholarships for summer program.
11:10:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Good Ms. Mulhern.
11:10:19 >>MARY MULHERN: That's good to hear.
11:10:21 I hope you will get in touch with all the mothers who
11:10:24 spoke today about this, because what we were hearing
11:10:30 from them single-family the program participation had
11:10:34 dropped specifically because people couldn't afford it.
11:10:37 And these are working mothers who mostly can't show up
11:10:42 at a council meeting.
11:10:43 So we haven't heard from everybody.
11:10:45 It sounds like you just need to get the word out.
11:10:49 And I hope that's it.
11:10:50 But I would also like to hear from you next time we
11:10:54 talk about this, what the total numbers are, the
11:11:00 numbers in the after-school program, and in the fall
11:11:05 after the summer programs, in comparison from the new
11:11:11 fee schedule to see if we really are -- if we are
11:11:14 losing a lot of people.
11:11:15 It sounds like the people we are losing are the people
11:11:17 that need us the most.
11:11:18 >>KAREN PALUS: Councilwoman Mulhern, if I can share.
11:11:27 We have lost a percentage of a lot of those locations,
11:11:30 and again we anticipated that.
11:11:32 Remember the program was completely free before
11:11:36 They had their activity fee and our numbers for
11:11:38 activity fees were a certain level, our numbers for
11:11:43 after-school were free, but could register and not
11:11:46 participate because it was a backup scenario in a lot
11:11:49 of our locations.
11:11:50 There's really the facilities that we have noticed the
11:11:52 most significant changes other than Forest Hills, and I
11:11:56 would expect that to see a more direct correlation is
11:11:59 that non-resident issue.
11:12:01 A lot of our facilities border very close to the
11:12:05 For example, I'll give the New Tampa example.
11:12:09 We have seen a reduction of 30% at that particular
11:12:12 after-school program because if you are driving down
11:12:15 Cross Creek, right across the street is the county.
11:12:18 So we have seen a lot of decrease in the area.
11:12:22 Hunt is another one that has an example of that where
11:12:24 we have seen a significant decline in the after-school
11:12:27 program, because of that location being so close to the
11:12:31 And they have all of the school facilities now have
11:12:35 after-school programs, so they don't have to worry
11:12:37 about transportation and things.
11:12:39 >>MARY MULHERN: That was another thing.
11:12:41 I brought this up before so forgive me if I am
11:12:43 repeating myself from another meeting.
11:12:45 But the facilities fees, people used to be able to join
11:12:49 their local parks facilities, right?
11:12:53 And then they can do anything there.
11:12:55 And I have heard that that's become a hardship for some
11:12:58 people as opposed to having to pay for everything.
11:13:01 And every time they want to use the pool they have to
11:13:03 pay as opposed to joining.
11:13:06 >>KAREN PALUS: What we have done before, under the old
11:13:10 program we had the activity fee which everybody pays
11:13:14 $12 whether you use after-school, whether you
11:13:16 participate in a fitness room or you just came --
11:13:20 everybody pays the same amount.
11:13:22 You do not pay anything for use of the pool, period.
11:13:24 There was no collection opportunity the way we were
11:13:27 structured previously.
11:13:29 So now everyone is paying $15.
11:13:32 If you are a city resident, everybody pays $15.
11:13:35 We also have family pass for folks available, if you
11:13:37 have more than --
11:13:39 >>MARY MULHERN: 15 for --
11:13:41 >>KAREN PALUS: $15 a year.
11:13:43 That gives you access to open gym, our voluntary
11:13:48 programs that we have available, any of our events and
11:13:52 The pools do have a fee involved and we have an annual
11:13:55 pass for that as well.
11:13:56 >> How much is that?
11:13:57 >> I don't have that off the top of my head but it's in
11:13:59 that range of $50.
11:14:02 >> That's one of the things I heard about was the
11:14:05 Sulphur Springs people where people probably can't
11:14:08 afford $50 to join.
11:14:09 >> That's for like a family.
11:14:11 We have a couple different ways to do that.
11:14:14 We can work with that.
11:14:15 And I can give you the specifics.
11:14:16 >>MARY MULHERN: If you can give me the specifics maybe
11:14:24 on Sulphur Springs, that would be good.
11:14:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have also heard about Sulphur
11:14:27 Springs, about a dramatic drop-off in the number of
11:14:31 I'm very pleased to hear about this scholarship.
11:14:35 It sounds very generous.
11:14:36 What we need to do is somehow, I don't know how to do
11:14:39 this, but recontact the people whose children used to
11:14:43 go there, who left because they thought they couldn't
11:14:45 afford it, make them aware that they can sign up and
11:14:48 perhaps receive the scholarships at the Sulphur Springs
11:14:52 rec center, and would it take you 60 days to come back
11:14:56 to us with numbers of -- before the fees and now after
11:14:59 the fees?
11:15:00 I want to give -- I want this to ab success.
11:15:03 I know that we haven't given you the money that you
11:15:07 need to do, to have to run all the programs you want to
11:15:11 I know all of us would much rather spend money on parks
11:15:14 and rec than down the road on law enforcement.
11:15:17 It just makes so much sense.
11:15:19 But keeping the kids in a healthy environment, off the
11:15:22 streets, is where we want to see our resources placed.
11:15:27 Give us some feedback numbers of kids, fees, and what
11:15:30 you are looking at in terms of lessening of the city
11:15:34 budget, because as we look ahead to this next year and
11:15:37 even as we are in the middle of this budget, we want to
11:15:40 provide you the resources that you need to make our
11:15:43 programs available to as many kids in our community as
11:15:48 Council really cares about that.
11:15:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Miranda?
11:15:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Just a couple of things.
11:15:54 I heard this morning from citizens speak about Jackson
11:15:58 Heights and different things that they were, 130
11:16:03 Now there are 48, Kate, Robles, are closed.
11:16:09 That's way heard.
11:16:11 And the thing that I'm thinking about is they were
11:16:15 saying we are going to give you more resources, and
11:16:17 then next week on the 22nd we are going to meet with
11:16:19 the mayor.
11:16:21 Now what they are going to tell us?
11:16:22 That the resources are even scarcer this year than last
11:16:27 year because you are going to have an decrease in the
11:16:31 budget of about 25 to $30 million.
11:16:34 But that's just me speaking.
11:16:37 I understand your program, and I understand that we are
11:16:40 not back in the 50s.
11:16:42 But in the 50s it was a quarter, 25 cents, to use the
11:16:50 Pay 25 cents.
11:16:51 You are for any hours you wanted.
11:16:54 With lifeguard and so forth.
11:16:55 And I know things have changed.
11:16:57 I know things have gone up.
11:16:59 I know that computer costs and employment and
11:17:01 everything else is much higher.
11:17:03 What I am getting at is we went from $15 for city
11:17:06 residents to $150 for non-city residents.
11:17:12 And I would imagine that the lost opportunities on
11:17:20 volume, yes, I believe the department, if you look at
11:17:24 it strictly on finance, it has become much more bottom
11:17:29 line profitable as you were now as you were two months
11:17:33 ago, three month ago, because some of these are paying
11:17:37 the high fees of 150.
11:17:40 But the question is how many losses did you have that
11:17:44 you would have had, and maybe the balance is zero.
11:17:47 In other words, did we make these fees up to
11:17:50 accommodate a budget figure?
11:17:52 Or because of water issues.
11:17:56 We sell water.
11:17:57 The county uses our water plant.
11:17:59 But they are charged .25 of 1 percent to buy the City
11:18:05 of Tampa's water.
11:18:06 So that's very insignificant.
11:18:08 And although they live in the county, and -- and I
11:18:12 voted for the 150.
11:18:14 So did the rest of us.
11:18:16 What I'm saying is that these fees may be so high that
11:18:21 you are going to have a further devalue of use of the
11:18:26 And at what point does that facility then become
11:18:32 I understand 15, maybe it doubles.
11:18:36 But we went to the 10th factor.
11:18:39 And maybe I voted wrong.
11:18:40 I'm very sincere.
11:18:41 I'm not perfect.
11:18:42 And I'm saying as you look at it, now you step back and
11:18:45 you take a look at it, I take a look and I said, did I
11:18:49 really do the right thing?
11:18:50 And those are things that I'm questioning myself, not
11:18:53 only on this vote, on every vote that I take.
11:18:57 So I'm a little perplexed at the way I voted and the
11:19:03 fees that increased and the amount of people that I cut
11:19:07 You see the young, and the young at heart -- which is a
11:19:10 nice way of saying "old" -- are the ones that really
11:19:15 need these facilities more than anyone else. I can
11:19:18 tell you for two rec people that worked in the city
11:19:23 park at Biscayne, and that's the one I grew up to and
11:19:28 went to every day. Miss Mexico handled the females and
11:19:28 Ross Ferlita handled the boys.
11:19:38 Between those two individuals, they must have had over
11:19:42 a thousand each.
11:19:42 We never had a problem in the park, because if you did,
11:19:45 they sent you home, and you weren't coming back.
11:19:48 And we knew that.
11:19:50 So one handled basketball, tennis.
11:19:53 The other handled baseball and football, which I never
11:19:57 excelled in any one of them.
11:19:58 But it was a great thing to go to the park and spend
11:20:01 six, seven hours.
11:20:05 They didn't baby-sit us.
11:20:06 They taught us how to play games that became -- some
11:20:10 guys came out of there in the Hall of Fame, or soon to
11:20:13 be in the Hall of Fame.
11:20:14 And what I'm saying is that did we go over and above
11:20:20 when we said 15 to 150, and with what were those
11:20:25 projections based on?
11:20:26 And like I said, maybe I voted incorrectly.
11:20:29 >>KAREN PALUS: The fees that were based, the
11:20:34 non-resident fees, the $115 is basically the 15 and 15
11:20:39 was equivalent to what the city resident and the
11:20:41 non-city resident would pay for the recreation part,
11:20:45 essentially our way of capturing the information for
11:20:47 the folks, their households and allowing them to be
11:20:51 open gym come and play, do those kind of things at
11:20:54 those locations throughout the city, and that gives you
11:20:56 access to all of our facilities.
11:20:58 That's not just the one that's right in your
11:21:01 And $15, actually over 30 facilities, indoor facilities
11:21:06 throughout the City of Tampa.
11:21:08 Right now.
11:21:09 The $100, where that came from, around what other
11:21:16 municipalities were doing, a very simple thing that
11:21:21 actually follows in line with what the city of
11:21:23 Clearwater had done, and they set a fee, that he would
11:21:26 took our overall budget and divided that by the number
11:21:29 of residents that we have in the City of Tampa.
11:21:31 And basically we spend out of the ad valorem taxes $100
11:21:35 per resident under the $340 it was at that time
11:21:41 So it was $100.
11:21:43 What we did is bring that even.
11:21:46 Right now ad valorem taxes, folks that don't pay into
11:21:48 that ad valorem tax for us, that $100 became how they
11:21:52 paid in.
11:21:53 So now everybody became even.
11:21:55 And that's how that came to be.
11:21:56 Whether that's too high, too low, what that did was not
11:21:59 require us to have every program at a different rate.
11:22:02 Remember we are all still on the hand-drawn just a few
11:22:07 moments ago and will be electronically, but right now
11:22:10 we are still hand.
11:22:11 So for us to say every program had to have a different
11:22:14 fee, we have got 200 folks out there that are working
11:22:17 with all those individuals, numerous individuals,
11:22:20 signing up for multitudes of programs.
11:22:22 To give them a different fee for everybody, resident,
11:22:25 nonresident, would have been -- would have created a
11:22:28 major, major issue for our operations.
11:22:30 So with the new software, one of the things we have
11:22:33 talked about is how can we set that up differently in
11:22:35 the future?
11:22:36 Maybe our rates are higher for programs, and it's a lot
11:22:39 easier to do it through the software because it would
11:22:42 automatically take that information.
11:22:43 Staff doesn't have to remember it.
11:22:44 It there in the program.
11:22:45 So there may be some things in the future that we'll
11:22:47 look at that may help to capture some of those folks
11:22:50 that Mr. Miranda talked about, because the last thing
11:22:52 we want is to lose customers within our facilities.
11:22:55 We enjoy having them.
11:22:56 They enjoy coming.
11:22:57 And especially we have talked with our folks that they
11:23:03 continue to have a lot of folks that are non-city
11:23:05 residents that come all the way into town to Barksdale
11:23:08 to participate.
11:23:08 So we are looking at other items.
11:23:10 We are looking at other ways to do that.
11:23:11 But simplistically-wise that's how we got there and
11:23:15 that's what made it the most easy for the citizens to
11:23:17 be able to register and not have to pay multitude of
11:23:21 different fees.
11:23:22 The other thing coming into this year, since we knew it
11:23:26 was $115 once that passed is it gave them the first
11:23:29 quarter of the year to pay back.
11:23:30 So it gave everybody, from October all the way up till
11:23:36 January to cover that cost.
11:23:37 And staff monitored that to be able to do that.
11:23:40 So we tried to work with them, and work within their
11:23:43 means to help them still be able to participate in our
11:23:46 >>MARY MULHERN: I think it's interesting, that Mr.
11:23:53 Miranda made a God point about when he used to go to
11:23:56 the park, and it hasn't changed.
11:23:58 You generally go to your neighborhood park.
11:24:02 And having a pass to go anywhere in the city, it great
11:24:06 for somebody who has a car, and some leisure time and
11:24:11 all that.
11:24:11 So what we heard from people today was that their local
11:24:19 places have become too expensive for them to have take
11:24:21 their kids to.
11:24:22 So I think -- and I also think we did debate this, and
11:24:29 I know you worked a long time on this whole fee
11:24:31 structure, but I remember discussing it, at least for
11:24:34 myself saying, okay, we are going to pass this, but we
11:24:37 have to track it, and we have to make sure that this is
11:24:40 going to work.
11:24:40 And I think that's what all of us are asking for today,
11:24:43 is to see the numbers.
11:24:45 Because anecdotally it seems like parents are losing
11:24:50 places for their kids to go, kids after school are
11:24:54 unable to use all the facilities at the park, so I
11:24:57 think that we need to see the numbers and the revenue,
11:25:00 how the revenue has changed, how the usage has changed,
11:25:05 how many programs have closed, how many participants.
11:25:10 We need to see all of that.
11:25:12 But I also think that what we are hearing is there are
11:25:14 some problems.
11:25:16 So I think that we can individually -- and I am going
11:25:18 to look through these, because I haven't looked at the
11:25:22 fee structures since -- how long has it been?
11:25:26 Just October?
11:25:27 So maybe we have the report for a year, and then we can
11:25:33 make some major corrections if we need to, because
11:25:36 that's a long time in people's lives where they have to
11:25:41 readjust everything they do, especially the daycare,
11:25:43 and a place for their children to go.
11:25:45 So I think in our defense, we all voted for it but we
11:25:51 did have reservations because we didn't know how this
11:25:53 was going to turn out.
11:25:55 I want to address the contractors, because I'm the one
11:26:01 that actually held up your whole contract on the
11:26:05 automating this, because they had so many questions.
11:26:08 And there were more people today, after the policies
11:26:14 changed, than there were when you asked us to change
11:26:18 So I would like to hear an assurance that they are
11:26:22 going to get paid, that they don't have to wait two
11:26:24 months to get paid.
11:26:26 When they are paying up front for the use of the
11:26:28 facility, that they can't get paid.
11:26:30 I mean, that was what these independent contractors --
11:26:35 and I know because I freelance, you know.
11:26:37 Can usually as a freelancer, you get a deposit before
11:26:42 you start the work.
11:26:44 So they are not getting their deposit from the
11:26:50 participants, so they are really out of luck.
11:26:52 And I know at least one person who left, at least three
11:26:56 people have left.
11:26:58 First we just were hearing from some of the sports
11:27:02 Today we are hearing from art instructors.
11:27:04 I think we have a real problem and we have to address
11:27:07 that, because these are long-term programs that people
11:27:10 really love.
11:27:13 So what can you do to get them paid?
11:27:16 >>KAREN PALUS: Let me share with you some information
11:27:17 so I can clarify some of the input that you heard this
11:27:20 In regards to the one that spoke about not being paid,
11:27:25 they had collected all their fees up to December
11:27:28 January is the first period of time in which they would
11:27:30 be paid for our process.
11:27:33 There are more of our different facilities and they
11:27:34 didn't have a discrepancy. I think actually I am going
11:27:37 to -- staff made a discrepancy like there was four
11:27:41 people, so we had to clarify that.
11:27:43 All their paperwork was submitted last week.
11:27:45 Their checks due to be cut on Thursday.
11:27:47 They'll have their check on Monday, from January.
11:27:49 And we are right now in the middle of February.
11:27:52 So that's how quickly we are processing but there was a
11:27:54 discrepancy within the paperwork that had to be
11:27:58 Again, once the software is in place, that won't
11:28:03 That's again human error.
11:28:05 There were four folks that weren't accounted for.
11:28:07 To make sure that they got properly paid for their four
11:28:10 folks, with the information they turned in, staff went
11:28:14 back and verified and have Schmidted everything for
11:28:18 That situation is not --
11:28:22 >>MARY MULHERN: The other questions, though, is about
11:28:28 did bureaucratic, changing the name of this class, and
11:28:31 people -- this is what essentially people were afraid
11:28:35 of having to deal with.
11:28:36 >> I can clarify that as well.
11:28:40 If we are going to market the program, there's a couple
11:28:42 of things in this particular art class, one of which is
11:28:47 if worry going to market the program we have to have
11:28:49 the information that was Snaith stated in the program
11:28:51 proposal to make sure it goes into our marketing
11:28:54 information properly, so we are advertising what he's
11:28:57 really doing.
11:28:58 It goes into the software, so when they are looking at
11:29:01 class can find that in there to be able to register and
11:29:04 So the names do need to be the same.
11:29:06 We don't have to renegotiate a contract.
11:29:09 What we do is they have a program proposal anytime they
11:29:11 want to add an additional program to what they are
11:29:13 currently doing, they do that for the new site, and
11:29:17 they fill out the paperwork and submit it.
11:29:20 This gentleman, we had a $35 program on target for what
11:29:25 his program proposed for.
11:29:26 However what was submit to go into the software was an
11:29:30 $80 program.
11:29:31 So, yes, we need to make sure the information was
11:29:34 We are fine with him wanting to run an $80 program but
11:29:37 we needed that information in place.
11:29:38 That's where that information was a little different.
11:29:40 >>MARY MULHERN: I want to ask one more thing.
11:29:45 When we get a report on all of the city programming,
11:29:47 and the city usage for fee-based, I would also like a
11:29:55 report on how many contractors, how those numbers have
11:30:03 >> We have 22 contractors currently since January 1.
11:30:07 They are teaching over 16-plus facility.
11:30:11 Several of them at four or five facilities.
11:30:13 Some of them are expanding.
11:30:15 We know the gentleman spoke about USDA and we have two
11:30:20 new tennis instructors that came on board already.
11:30:23 So we are doing really well with our contractors that
11:30:26 have come on board thus far.
11:30:27 We did have a situation, but again once the software is
11:30:32 in place --
11:30:34 >>MARY MULHERN: 22 total contractors?
11:30:36 >> 22 total contractors signed up on January 1.
11:30:39 >> How many did you have before that?
11:30:42 >>KAREN PALUS: As far as the ones we had before that?
11:30:45 I have to go back and look.
11:30:47 The numbers weren't nearly --
11:30:49 >> You have more now than you did before?
11:30:51 >>KAREN PALUS: Yes.
11:30:52 A lot of new folks.
11:30:53 A lot of new folks.
11:30:54 >> I would like to see that.
11:30:55 >>KAREN PALUS: Okay.
11:30:56 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: (off microphone).
11:31:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Turf your mike on.
11:31:05 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: It been brought to my attention
11:31:07 that the people who teach tennis had a one-page
11:31:09 contract, and now they have a ten-page contract.
11:31:12 I did not read the contract, but I was told that
11:31:15 there's a clause in there that if something happens
11:31:18 while whoever the contractor is, if there's an injury,
11:31:22 their liability is going to be on them.
11:31:24 >> Yes, if it's happening during their teaching
11:31:27 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: If a kid trips and falls and
11:31:33 breaks a leg, it's the instructor's fault?
11:31:36 >> If a kid trips and break his leg during the program?
11:31:39 >> Yes.
11:31:40 >> It's not the instructor's fault but that's for the
11:31:43 lawyers to work out.
11:31:45 But it one of the things that inherent risk, they sign
11:31:50 a waiver and everything in regards to participating in
11:31:52 recreational programs.
11:31:53 But I think I will let Chip speak to the issues on the
11:32:00 liability issues that we have in the contract.
11:32:01 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: This is a contract, and this is
11:32:06 new to Tampa.
11:32:07 Why this is new the Tampa I can't really tell you that,
11:32:10 but it is.
11:32:12 These contracts, there has been an issue for some time
11:32:17 about making sure that the folks that are independent
11:32:20 contractors doing work on city facilities are in fact
11:32:24 independent contractors.
11:32:26 And as a businessman you probably know from a tax
11:32:31 standpoint, IRS standpoint, maintaining that is real
11:32:35 That was what started from our standpoint, noticed to
11:32:38 get a very structured contract.
11:32:40 One of the issues that was not addressed previously was
11:32:44 insurance by independent contractors and liability for
11:32:48 activity on city properties.
11:32:50 That's a lot of what you have heard about today, risk
11:32:52 management looked at it, they made a recommendation as
11:32:54 to the apt amount of insurance required, that's in the
11:32:58 contract, and it does have liability language, and it
11:33:04 does indicate that if a contractor is on city property
11:33:08 conducting an activity that they have insurance that
11:33:10 covers that liability, and frankly we'll both get sued,
11:33:15 and the courts will work out whether it was a city
11:33:19 property problem or a instruction problem.
11:33:23 And it is a fairly general liability provision, but we
11:33:28 think it's appropriate in that context.
11:33:30 And if it was a private company, we would be dealing
11:33:33 with the same situation.
11:33:36 So it is new.
11:33:37 It is different.
11:33:38 It is changed definitely.
11:33:39 But we think it prudent and appropriate.
11:33:41 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: So legal has approved that
11:33:44 contract, correct?
11:33:46 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Yes, and actually City Council has
11:33:48 as well.
11:33:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Miranda?
11:33:52 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I'm not done yet.
11:33:54 One other thing, Mrs. Palus.
11:33:56 Last Sunday there was an article in the "St. Pete
11:33:58 Times," very critical about your department.
11:34:03 And that we have dismissed a lot of employees and hired
11:34:07 a lot of new employees.
11:34:10 So most of these employees that you have hired had, did
11:34:13 they come from the ranks that were dismissed?
11:34:15 Or did they have an opportunity to reapply?
11:34:20 >>KAREN PALUS: I'm not sure.
11:34:22 I think the two items are getting convoluted.
11:34:26 Actually the positions we have placed in parts of our
11:34:28 optimization and restructuring as parts of our
11:34:31 facilities with many of those folks are from our
11:34:35 The majority of them are.
11:34:37 They are from our folks.
11:34:39 So as far as dismissals, the majority of anything
11:34:42 that's occurred with us in reductions other than the
11:34:44 first year, we have 26 folks that were affected, back
11:34:49 in those when we had to do those initial reductions,
11:34:52 eleven of them actually left our system.
11:34:54 Since then, we have not had to release anybody as far
11:34:58 as an individual in a position.
11:35:00 We have eliminated things through vacancies, or
11:35:04 And I did send you a memo clarifying that article in
11:35:06 regards to what was written over the weekend.
11:35:09 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Okay, thank you.
11:35:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Just a couple of point here.
11:35:19 If these tennis professionals before all this have to
11:35:23 have liability insurance for the use of the court?
11:35:28 >>KAREN PALUS: Do they have to have that?
11:35:29 As far as the agreement, no.
11:35:30 What we did request from them was insurance to make
11:35:33 sure they had something documented from them.
11:35:36 >> So they did have insurance.
11:35:38 >> Yes.
11:35:39 >> So nothing has changed really.
11:35:40 >> Correct.
11:35:41 >> The next point is, I consider them, I guess, the
11:35:45 rest of us do, self-employed subcontractors.
11:35:48 >> Right.
11:35:49 >> Just today we went over a bid, no bid, let's get the
11:35:52 lowest bid possible.
11:35:53 To your knowledge, do you or anyone in your department
11:35:59 set the rate that these individuals have to charge?
11:36:02 >>KAREN PALUS: No, sir.
11:36:05 >> In other words, if I want to charge $10 an hour, $20
11:36:09 an hour, $30 an hour, $40 an hour, and somebody wants
11:36:12 to pay it, then you can do that?
11:36:15 >> Correct.
11:36:17 That's what makes them an independent contractor along
11:36:19 with several other things.
11:36:20 >> If I was to tell you that I know different would
11:36:26 that shake you up a little bit?
11:36:27 >> I would be happy to talk with you about that because
11:36:30 that is not the way this program is structured, nor is
11:36:32 it how it operates.
11:36:34 I will tell you, what will happen with some of those
11:36:36 folks is if they do price themselves out of the market,
11:36:38 I know there's been dialogue, but that's up to them, if
11:36:42 they do that.
11:36:42 >> What I'm saying is I want to make sure that
11:36:45 everybody is entitled to have the opportunity to play.
11:36:49 What I'm trying to get, is there any way in 30 days or
11:36:52 so you can tell us how many participated prior to
11:36:55 October 1st, how many are participating now?
11:36:58 >>KAREN PALUS: No, sir, I can't.
11:37:00 We have no way to tell that that.
11:37:02 We have no way to tell that.
11:37:03 >> But here is what it is.
11:37:07 And you have got to buy a rec card.
11:37:09 Then you have individual residential, 15 residential
11:37:12 and family 50, nonresidential individuals in the
11:37:17 county, 115.
11:37:19 Non-residential family 400.
11:37:22 Single-day pass, one single is $10.
11:37:25 So a family of three, let me advise you, don't buy the
11:37:29 Pay the 115.
11:37:31 You're better off.
11:37:32 But what I'm saying is that when we jump from inside
11:37:36 the city to outside the city, it skyrockets.
11:37:42 I understand that.
11:37:44 But I would make an assumption is based on the facts of
11:37:48 the fees, that you are having less participants in
11:37:52 these programs, and you and your fellow employees have
11:37:59 tried to maintain a criteria of let's get things done,
11:38:02 and let's do it right, that you have had before.
11:38:06 It's the same thing.
11:38:08 If you are charging -- you want to solve the water
11:38:13 problem, make it $25 a gallon.
11:38:15 Nobody drinks water.
11:38:16 But what we are doing here is basically the same thing.
11:38:22 And I voted for it.
11:38:23 That's what I'm saying to myself.
11:38:28 I hope that these independent contractors can set their
11:38:33 My question to myself is, was the system that broken
11:38:36 that we had to change it?
11:38:39 Was it working or not working?
11:38:40 What were the faults?
11:38:43 My mind is telling me someone had to think there was
11:38:47 fraud going on.
11:38:48 That's why we went to a computer system.
11:38:51 I don't know.
11:38:51 I can remember that you buy a card when I was in the
11:38:59 boys club, and my number was 104.
11:39:01 That's the number I needed to get in.
11:39:03 I don't know if you can put some kind of mechanisms in
11:39:05 the gate where you have a sliding card and that's how
11:39:08 you get in.
11:39:08 I don't know.
11:39:09 I'm not in recreation.
11:39:10 But there's too much voluminous points for me to figure
11:39:25 out how to fix things.
11:39:26 >>KAREN PALUS: Let me say, if you are speaking in
11:39:29 regards to specifically the instructor contract, I
11:39:30 think Mr. Fletcher addressed several of the items and
11:39:33 issues that were in place.
11:39:35 The liability issue, risk management, you have the
11:39:38 legal issues, IRS issues, and such as far as an
11:39:41 independent contractor.
11:39:42 I will tell you -- and I know Mr. Fletcher shared with
11:39:45 you that this is new to Tampa.
11:39:52 I have been in the parks and recreation field for over
11:39:55 20 years.
11:39:55 I was the front first-line supervisor.
11:39:58 That's how long when you look at other municipalities
11:40:00 this type of structure has been in place.
11:40:02 We have been able to not operate that way before.
11:40:05 However, based on all the things we are hearing, as far
11:40:07 as what I hear from my peers and what's happening out
11:40:10 in our industry, cities and municipalities were being
11:40:14 fined for not properly doing the IRS guidelines, for
11:40:20 not having all of their independent contractor
11:40:22 information in place.
11:40:23 If you will speak with some students, they are going
11:40:26 around to other municipalities thinking there's a
11:40:28 different situation where they are finding they are
11:40:30 running into the same scenario at those locates.
11:40:33 In regards to the instructor agreement, you mentioned
11:40:36 No, that is not what this is about.
11:40:37 This is about putting the right parameters, the right
11:40:40 information that's appropriate for the type of
11:40:43 relationship that we have individuals that are truly
11:40:46 self-employed conducting business on city property.
11:40:49 >> All right.
11:40:50 So if I hear right, what I am hearing is if some
11:40:56 subcontractor is at 30% they pay, so a subcontractor
11:41:00 turns in $9,000, that means their gross was $30,000,
11:41:07 So then at the end of the year I would imagine that
11:41:10 somebody gives them, what is it, W-9 or whatever it is,
11:41:15 99 or whatever the form is, that you have submitted
11:41:18 this amount to the city, and it up to the IRS to follow
11:41:22 up with what they have earned and what they have paid.
11:41:26 And that expense comes right off the top of their
11:41:30 That was a cost of doing business.
11:41:31 >> Yes.
11:41:41 I'm not confident with what the forms describe.
11:41:44 But that's correct.
11:41:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
11:41:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Karen, I know none of this is easy,
11:41:55 and change isn't easy, but that's why I was willing to
11:41:58 vote on the contract which I think came through at the
11:42:00 end of last year, as well as the new fees.
11:42:05 But that doesn't mean just because when voted on it
11:42:07 that we can't tweak it.
11:42:09 And I think that's where we are right now.
11:42:11 I think we are not trying to tell to you throw out the
11:42:14 baby with the bath water.
11:42:15 You gave us a 20-page with new fees, and we took a leap
11:42:23 of faith and said we'll run with it.
11:42:24 But now we are running into some issues.
11:42:26 You weren't in the room, but you were watching on
11:42:28 television, and you heard, you know, five or ten folks
11:42:32 get up and speak.
11:42:34 Not only on the independent contractor issue but also
11:42:37 talking about some of these families that are just
11:42:40 suffering and hurting.
11:42:42 And I think we need to do a better job on those issues.
11:42:45 But let me ask you this question.
11:42:47 How many independent contractors have we lost over the
11:42:50 last couple of months?
11:42:52 >>KAREN PALUS: I only know of two at this point in
11:42:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, I'm hearing some other things
11:43:00 from e-mails.
11:43:01 And I'll be glad to share them with you later if I
11:43:03 haven't already.
11:43:06 I think some of your contractors have signed on under
11:43:09 duress, okay, under pressure.
11:43:11 And I'll read some quotes.
11:43:14 Quote: I certainly feel like I had no voice.
11:43:17 This was rammed down my throat, as a take it or leave
11:43:19 it proposition.
11:43:20 We provided a service to public parks and rec for years
11:43:23 that requires no retirement and medical benefits from
11:43:26 the city.
11:43:27 Another person: I had to purchase a $115 park pass to
11:43:31 get on the premises to be able to teach and coach and
11:43:33 pay for a contract instructor badge I have yet to
11:43:38 Another person: Honestly, I felt pressured from the
11:43:41 start to sign and agree to things that I don't even
11:43:43 I'm wondering if this contract needs to be put under
11:43:46 public scrutiny.
11:43:48 Another person.
11:43:49 It was kind of like shoving stuff down my throat.
11:43:52 We felt like we didn't have any voice.
11:43:55 Et cetera.
11:43:58 Another group of comments about how they loved what
11:44:02 they are doing.
11:44:02 And I think we heard this morning, this person said I
11:44:05 love teaching, it's a big joy in my life and I don't
11:44:08 want to lose it so I have been playing along.
11:44:10 The contract concerned me, too, but I am no longer
11:44:13 pursuing instructing.
11:44:14 So we obviously lost that person.
11:44:16 This person says: I ran a program with 13 kids and I'm
11:44:20 at a break-even right now.
11:44:23 I am break-even after I meet the city's new
11:44:30 Are we just talking about tennis and art basically?
11:44:33 What are we talking about?
11:44:34 >>KAREN PALUS: We have a multitude -- we have fitness.
11:44:38 We have art.
11:44:39 We have youth.
11:44:40 We have all kinds of folks out there in all of our
11:44:43 >> That's the 30 instructors you are talking about?
11:44:46 >> Uh-huh.
11:44:47 >> Now this goes to the tweaking, okay?
11:44:52 And I do understand a little bit about indemnification
11:44:55 and hold harmless agreements.
11:44:57 The correspondence I have received had some problems
11:44:59 with the specific language that we are, quote, forcing
11:45:03 down these people's throats.
11:45:05 And one of it is that we are asking them to indemnify
11:45:08 the city, okay.
11:45:11 Indemnify the city.
11:45:12 Now let me give you a scenario.
11:45:13 Because I have been out there with coach Shull on the
11:45:17 tennis court.
11:45:17 He was my teacher till my shoulder went out.
11:45:21 But, anyway, so you go out on the city court, okay,
11:45:26 over at Himes Avenue, and you are playing tennis.
11:45:29 Now, if he comes over and he starts whacking me on the
11:45:32 head or something like that because he didn't like the
11:45:35 way I hit the ball, then, you know, yeah, that's why we
11:45:39 are requiring him to carry a million dollars of
11:45:41 liability policy and that sort of thing, and the city
11:45:44 should be covered under that million dollars policy.
11:45:47 But the flip side is, if somebody is on that tennis
11:45:49 court, okay, and all of our tennis courts are not in
11:45:52 the greatest shape because worry short of money, and,
11:45:55 for example, they fall apart, there's some cracks in
11:45:58 the court, if they trip over the crack in the court
11:46:02 that's on the city court, okay, why should he have to
11:46:06 indemnify the city just because he happened to be
11:46:09 giving lessons that day?
11:46:10 That is the type of thing that doesn't make sense to
11:46:14 Now, I don't want to get into this we are going to
11:46:17 leave it up to the judge and that sort of thing.
11:46:19 But we are not leaving it up to the judge.
11:46:21 We are getting up in front of that train in advance and
11:46:24 saying these contractors are going to be responsible
11:46:28 and they are going to indemnify the city.
11:46:31 That's what that contract language says.
11:46:32 And to me that's not fair.
11:46:34 And, yes, we can force them to do that.
11:46:38 We can force them to have do that because we are the
11:46:40 big City of Tampa.
11:46:42 And these are just independent contractors who are
11:46:44 trying to teach tennis or art or what have you.
11:46:47 But I don't think we should be doing that.
11:46:48 And I think the mere fact that this council signed on
11:46:51 to a brand new 10 or 20-page contract in December,
11:46:56 okay, at the end of this discussion, I am going to make
11:46:58 a motion that we bring that resolution back and revisit
11:47:01 that contract.
11:47:01 Because I think there's certain paragraphs including
11:47:04 the indemnification, the hold harmless between the
11:47:07 generally accepted accounting principals, the GATT
11:47:11 rules, that apparently a lot of them don't even
11:47:13 You are saying you just reply with all GATT rules.
11:47:17 I don't even understand that.
11:47:19 So it's kind of like I understand we need a new
11:47:22 I understand that we have to do things differently.
11:47:24 Change is not easy for us or them.
11:47:27 But let's get back, take a step back and tweak it up a
11:47:31 little bit and make it a little more palatable for
11:47:34 And the notion that you guys are trying or threatening
11:47:37 to trespass Mr. Shull because he won't sign the
11:47:40 contract while it's still under discussion of this
11:47:43 council I find absolutely disgusting.
11:47:46 Absolutely disgusting.
11:47:47 And I read it in the paper and I couldn't believe it.
11:47:49 And then I got a call from coach Shull to my office
11:47:53 saying it was true.
11:47:54 And I say, what is going on with the city?
11:47:57 That we are going to trespass our tennis instructors
11:48:00 because he wants to keep going out there and give
11:48:03 tennis lessons, a lot of them to our children, okay, to
11:48:07 Robinson high school, that sort of thing.
11:48:11 I don't get it.
11:48:12 And I'm really, really disappointed.
11:48:15 I'm disappointed.
11:48:16 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: At the appropriate time, Madam
11:48:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm fine with it today but I'm going
11:48:27 to make a motion to bring that contract back and to
11:48:29 revisit some of the language of the contract for future
11:48:33 We might have already signed on with some of these
11:48:36 contractors to do it, and maybe we can't undo those
11:48:40 But for future reference, we have a contract that we
11:48:42 agree to by resolution, okay.
11:48:45 And I would like us -- and I am going to make a motion
11:48:47 to revisit that.
11:48:48 At that point in time we can have the detailed
11:48:50 discussion that you want.
11:48:52 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: What you described is not what we
11:48:54 are asking people to sign.
11:48:55 And, number two, there needs to be some professional
11:48:58 judgment as to whether or not the facility is safe.
11:49:01 And that is a joint decision.
11:49:02 That's both the manager of the facility and the folks
11:49:05 that are bringing people out there.
11:49:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's fine.
11:49:10 But at the end of the day somebody brought that
11:49:12 contract to this council to agree.
11:49:14 >> That's correct.
11:49:15 >> And my motion is going to bring it back so we can
11:49:17 read it a little closer, because we took a leap of
11:49:20 faith and it was all Kosher.
11:49:23 I think we need a bigger discussion on some of the
11:49:25 specific parks, and I think that's our prerogative from
11:49:28 a policy perspective.
11:49:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
11:49:31 When you make that motion, Mr. Dingfelder, I will
11:49:33 second it.
11:49:33 And I looked at our calendar.
11:49:35 On March 4th, we just got rid of our afternoon
11:49:38 So we could meet in the afternoon which would give us a
11:49:42 lot of time and a time certain to revisit this.
11:49:45 And I would like to see a copy of the two-page
11:49:48 St. Petersburg contract, because perhaps -- I think
11:49:52 brevity is the soul of wit, and I think we might see
11:49:56 some value in simplifying what we have everybody
11:50:00 >> Could I make a clarification real quick for council
11:50:06 What everybody keeps relating to is the 20-page
11:50:09 contract is not a 20-page contract.
11:50:11 It is an instructor manual that talks about our
11:50:13 mission, our vision, and who we are, what our benefits
11:50:16 are to the community, what we are expecting from them,
11:50:19 what they can expect from us, is there a danger out
11:50:22 there reporting that there is a danger on the court
11:50:26 which is how Mr. Shull called us about a strap that was
11:50:32 We appreciated that.
11:50:32 We had a conversation at that time with him.
11:50:34 But that's what this is about.
11:50:35 This is more about communicating with the folks that
11:50:37 are providing services to the community on our
11:50:40 facility, so that we have a better, more tight
11:50:44 relationship with them to communicate who we are, and
11:50:46 what our expectations are, and what they can expect
11:50:48 from us.
11:50:49 And that's what this is about.
11:50:50 The contract itself, this describes what they are going
11:50:55 to teach.
11:50:55 That's all.
11:50:56 This is putting the information down and sharing that,
11:50:58 so we can properly market for them.
11:51:00 And put that into the software and have that available
11:51:03 to the public.
11:51:04 The contract that has emergency information.
11:51:06 It's standard.
11:51:07 I'll go back and make sure you all have a full copy of
11:51:10 all of that information again.
11:51:11 But it very simple.
11:51:13 It's very -- we tried to make this as simple as
11:51:15 possible for folks complying with laws and regulations
11:51:19 in which we are responsible for upholding.
11:51:21 That's all.
11:51:21 >>MARY MULHERN: If you could send all three of those
11:51:25 documents to us so that we can read them, and -- did
11:51:29 you say that was guidelines?
11:51:31 >>KAREN PALUS: Yes.
11:51:34 They are called a recreation --
11:51:35 >>MARY MULHERN: Is there a signature on that?
11:51:38 >>KAREN PALUS: No.
11:51:39 It's on the application.
11:51:40 >>MARY MULHERN: But is it referenced?
11:51:42 >>KAREN PALUS: Yes, because it has parks security.
11:51:45 >>MARY MULHERN: They are sign an agreement.
11:51:47 So they consider that a contract.
11:51:48 >>KAREN PALUS: Yes.
11:51:49 This is information so they know --
11:51:52 >>MARY MULHERN: But if they are signing it, then it
11:51:54 becomes a contract.
11:51:55 >>MARY MULHERN: Now I forgot way was going to bring up
11:52:07 after all of that.
11:52:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do you want me to make a motion and
11:52:13 get that out of the way?
11:52:14 >> It was really important.
11:52:15 Oh, I know what it was.
11:52:17 I haven't been getting any e-mails.
11:52:19 And part of my problem with this whole process is I was
11:52:23 only hearing from a couple people.
11:52:24 So I don't know what's going on.
11:52:26 If other council people are getting e-mails from
11:52:29 citizens, please share them with all of us, because I
11:52:34 heard a lot that it's the first time I ever heard it.
11:52:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: My motion with Ms. Saul-Sena's help
11:52:44 would be to bring this back for -- I'll call it a
11:52:49 special staff report on March 4th at 1:30.
11:52:53 >>GWEN MILLER: What are you bringing back?
11:52:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Bring this specific discussion
11:52:57 about the contract.
11:52:58 >>GWEN MILLER: The contract, okay.
11:52:59 >>THE CLERK: Madam Chair, we do have four public
11:53:02 hearings the afternoon of the 4th.
11:53:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Including the three that we
11:53:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The three you postponed were from
11:53:15 You have three staff reports presently set for March
11:53:18 4th in the morning and you have Judy Lisi making a
11:53:21 presentation for ten minutes at 10:30.
11:53:23 Other than those four you have no other --
11:53:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 10:30 staff reports then.
11:53:28 On March 4th.
11:53:29 And specifically related to the contract.
11:53:33 Ms. Palus will get us all copies of all of the contract
11:53:35 and anything that's new in the interim.
11:53:41 And anything else that I'm missing?
11:53:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: One other thing, Madam Chairman.
11:53:45 Several people mentioned the fact that they turn in
11:53:48 their paperwork and don't get paid for at least sixty
11:53:51 days where the old system, perhaps you can clarify
11:53:55 >>KAREN PALUS: I clarified that earlier.
11:53:58 We had one that we did have a discrepancy with their
11:54:01 information from what was the number of participants
11:54:04 versus what they had turned in.
11:54:06 They clarified that.
11:54:08 They got that full mitt submittal.
11:54:11 The usual turnaround, we tell them to expect it at six
11:54:14 weeks but it's running around two to three.
11:54:17 So once we go through the process.
11:54:19 So we are moving through the city process as quickly as
11:54:22 we can for folks on that.
11:54:23 But again once the software is in place, we wouldn't
11:54:25 have that discrepancy because they capture that
11:54:29 information already.
11:54:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That resolution was 2009, number
11:54:35 946, for those that are interested.
11:54:38 There's one point.
11:54:40 I was in the back getting a little water when I heard
11:54:42 Mr. Dingfelder discuss about a contract and so forth.
11:54:45 And I went back.
11:54:49 And is Mr. Maurice here?
11:54:52 Would you come up here?
11:54:53 I would like to ask you a couple little questions.
11:54:55 >> With the legal department.
11:55:03 >> You made a reference here in this executive order,
11:55:09 the fourth whereas.
11:55:11 Whereas under chapter 16 of the City of Tampa code, the
11:55:14 director of Parks and Recreation Department is the
11:55:18 mayor's designee.
11:55:22 I have no problem with the language.
11:55:24 I have a problem with the interpretation of the charter
11:55:27 where the mayor is the one that's really to sign
11:55:31 So it is not with Ms. Palus.
11:55:34 It with any -- in other words, if this is what you
11:55:36 wrote, and this is what you are telling this council,
11:55:41 and then future mayors is what I am most concerned
11:55:44 about, not present.
11:55:46 Then you are going to have mayors giving away their
11:55:48 authority to sign, contracts to designees.
11:55:53 Is that what I am seeing?
11:55:54 >> That is what you are seeing and that was also what
11:55:57 was done before.
11:55:58 I didn't create this on my own.
11:56:00 This was done before I believe by the prior city
11:56:05 attorney, that the mayor was authorized to execute an
11:56:08 executive order delegating her authority.
11:56:12 >> I think we are getting in foreign territory here,
11:56:15 but 1 and 1-A.
11:56:19 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: If I may jump in.
11:56:23 This is just a charter usual you, the mayor authorized
11:56:26 to designate individuals to sign contracts.
11:56:30 And if I am hearing your concern, the concern is we
11:56:34 don't want -- it should be retained with the mayor.
11:56:38 This had been the previous practice.
11:56:39 We continued it in this instance.
11:56:46 I don't see a major charter problem with it but I do
11:56:49 understand your concern about diluting the mayor's
11:56:51 control on those activities.
11:56:53 That certainly is an institutional control issue.
11:56:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: In other words we are going to
11:57:00 something really centralized to something decentralized
11:57:03 and you are going to have departments possibly making
11:57:05 contracts that could or could not be to the advantage
11:57:09 of the city.
11:57:09 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: If I could just make one other
11:57:13 The authorization is only to sign that exact contract
11:57:16 with those exact terms that were previously approved,
11:57:19 so there's not ability to change the business deal.
11:57:28 In that context we were more comfortable that was an
11:57:31 appropriate delegation.
11:57:32 >>MARY MULHERN: Are there other department heads that
11:57:36 have contracts that we have designated to do this?
11:57:53 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Again there's this kind of thing
11:57:55 where there's a form contract I think in the housing
11:57:58 There are some other things where we have cash going
11:58:01 out on a grant basis with a form contract.
11:58:04 For instance, the neighborhood stabilization, I think,
11:58:07 has some elements that are set up that way.
11:58:09 >> I think maybe this is something that should be
11:58:11 revised then, taken out, if we are going to revisit
11:58:14 this, because Ms. Palus is telling us there are only 22
11:58:20 We have hundreds of consent items on our agenda that we
11:58:23 approve and the mayor signs.
11:58:25 I don't see this as a huge burden or a huge need for
11:58:30 the mayor not to sign off on these.
11:58:32 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: If I may, we are mixing two things
11:58:38 What councilman Miranda indicated was the issue of the
11:58:40 mayor delegating to somebody else in the administration
11:58:42 to sign.
11:58:43 And that's really an internal control issue, from a
11:58:47 financial standpoint, and a delegation issue, and it's
11:58:51 in my view a valid concern.
11:58:54 What you are talking about is the concept where council
11:58:59 approves a standard contract, and then it is used over
11:59:02 and over and over again, and that is extremely common.
11:59:04 That is the way we work convention center contracts, it
11:59:08 is the way we work a variety of other contracts.
11:59:10 So those are two issues.
11:59:12 >>MARY MULHERN: It seems like everything comes in
11:59:14 front of us.
11:59:15 I don't know, that we sign and the mayor signs.
11:59:19 You would know.
11:59:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me address something that's
11:59:22 not, the convention center.
11:59:26 What happened here when conventions are bid out they
11:59:29 are bid out at a certain price throughout the country.
11:59:32 Let's say they had a convention billed out within 18
11:59:35 months, and Las Vegas was bidding on the same contract.
11:59:38 All of a sudden, the conventioneers come and they tell
11:59:43 whoever the head of the convention center was at that
11:59:45 time, we can get it for two cents less a square foot.
11:59:49 Well, by the time it went all the way around the world
11:59:53 to get here, to get approved and signed by the mayor,
11:59:56 that convention was already held in Las Vegas.
12:00:01 So we determined at that time, because I was here, to
12:00:04 give that individual the right to make that decision,
12:00:09 to have people in the center, because that creates
12:00:13 sales of other things, sales of hotel rooms, sales of
12:00:16 items that they bring, all kinds of taxes coming in for
12:00:20 both the city and the county.
12:00:21 Not to mention the state.
12:00:23 So that was a determination that was made by both sides
12:00:27 of the government to let that -- we were losing a lot
12:00:30 of money.
12:00:32 We are not losing.
12:00:34 When we changed that system, we started breaking even
12:00:37 and making a little.
12:00:39 And that's when the convention center was done a lot
12:00:44 different because there was a time factor involved that
12:00:46 we were bidding against convention centers throughout
12:00:49 the country.
12:00:49 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: If I may.
12:00:52 Sometimes the convention center contract will come back
12:00:57 to you because somebody wants to tweak the contract and
12:00:59 they were only allowed to sign the contract that was
12:01:02 When they do something a little different it has to
12:01:04 come back to you all.
12:01:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Council members, it's 12:00.
12:01:07 We need to vote on the motion to continue this or we
12:01:09 need to move on.
12:01:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The motion again is to March 4th
12:01:19 under staff reports to bring the contract resolution
12:01:23 that councilman Miranda cited.
12:01:26 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of that motion say Aye.
12:01:29 Opposed, Nay.
12:01:30 Now it's 12.
12:01:32 But 41 we need to do because we had someone paying by
12:01:35 the hour to speak of and the meeting has been going on
12:01:38 and on so we need a motion to hear 41 before we go to
12:01:42 >>MARTIN SHELBY: How long will 41 take, Ms. Grimes?
12:01:47 >>GWEN MILLER: It will be done quickly.
12:01:48 We have a motion to continue.
12:01:49 All in favor of that motion say Aye.
12:01:52 Okay, Mrs. Wise.
12:01:54 >>BONNIE WISE: Director of revenue and finance.
12:01:56 With me today I have John Desanto, a partner with Ernst
12:02:01 & Young, to review the comprehensive annual financial
12:02:03 report which was in your agenda packages.
12:02:05 I know that Lee Huffstutler contacted each of you to
12:02:09 see if you had certain questions.
12:02:13 This is coming about a month earlier than last year so
12:02:16 I am real pleased to hear that.
12:02:18 Although we still have ram for further improvement on
12:02:20 some of our findings, our findings are fewer than prior
12:02:25 I would like to thank Lee Huffstutler and his staff for
12:02:28 getting this to you, and for working on this clean
12:02:31 Especially Bill Ladd who many of you hey know announced
12:02:36 his retirement and he will be leaving the city, so of
12:02:38 course he is instrumental in getting the CAFR done each
12:02:41 If you adopt this CAFR then we can print minimal copies
12:02:47 of the CAFR.
12:02:48 However, it will be on line on the city Web site and
12:02:52 also available electronically, and of course we can get
12:02:54 you hard copies if you are so interested. So Mr.
12:02:57 Desanto is going to go through very quickly with you
12:02:59 the required communications that he has.
12:03:03 He's going to talk about the various findings, and
12:03:05 certain trends that we are seeing.
12:03:07 Many of these trends we will be discussing in the
12:03:10 mayor's meeting that we have on Monday that you all
12:03:12 referenced earlier.
12:03:13 Mr. Desanto is going to speak specifically to the
12:03:16 general fund.
12:03:17 As you know, we generally talk about the general fund
12:03:19 of utility tax fund when we combine it.
12:03:22 More to come on Monday.
12:03:24 With that I will turn it over to Mr. Desanto.
12:03:26 >> Thank you.
12:03:29 Good afternoon Madam Chair and members of City Council.
12:03:31 I do appreciate the opportunity to present the results
12:03:34 of the 2009 audit to you.
12:03:36 And in the interest of time, I know we are running
12:03:38 behind so I will try to keep it as brief as we can.
12:03:41 In addition to receiving the comprehensive annual
12:03:43 financial report, you should have received the document
12:03:46 that's entitled 2009 financial statement audit results
12:03:50 report to the City Council, and it from that document
12:03:53 that I am primarily going to be talking from.
12:03:56 Wail do first is ask that you turn to page six of that
12:04:04 document that summarizes the current audit results and
12:04:07 The first item is the summary of audit differences.
12:04:10 Those are the adjustments that we identify during the
12:04:14 Of those there was one adjustment that was recorded and
12:04:18 three that were determined by management to be
12:04:20 immaterial to your financial statements, and therefore
12:04:22 not recorded.
12:04:23 They are on page 20 of this document.
12:04:27 And I will cover them later if you would like me to.
12:04:33 As far as findings of -- internal controls over
12:04:38 financial reporting.
12:04:39 We did report two material weaknesses and internal
12:04:42 Those were both reported in the prior fiscal year and
12:04:45 those are carried forward to this year.
12:04:47 If you recall, they primarily were around information
12:04:52 system, lacking the capability to present and
12:04:55 accumulate all your financial data and the area of
12:04:58 capital asset accounting.
12:05:00 It was transferring items from construction and process
12:05:02 to an asset to start depreciating those items.
12:05:06 Those issues continue to occur and we believe that they
12:05:08 are primarily a result of system limitations.
12:05:11 As far as findings considered to be significant
12:05:15 deficiency and material weaknesses related to
12:05:18 compliance within the federal and state grant programs,
12:05:20 we did point out in our single audit report of your
12:05:23 state and federal grant programs only one finding, and
12:05:26 that was in the homeland security grant program and
12:05:33 relates that were not filed.
12:05:35 That was the only finding, for federal programs and two
12:05:38 state programs.
12:05:38 Association we only have that one finding which I did
12:05:41 consider to be pretty minor.
12:05:42 However, it is something we are required to report.
12:05:46 With respect to the management letter, we did have one
12:05:48 management letter comment in the current year and they
12:05:51 are related to the general function fund payment.
12:05:53 And it was a situation where there were early retirees,
12:05:58 the penalties for early retirement was not factored
12:06:00 into the benefit payment in five of 40 cases I sampled.
12:06:06 Page 7, how do those audit results compare to the prior
12:06:09 I know you are interested are we getting belter or
12:06:11 staying the same, where are we going?
12:06:13 So page 7 I actually showed a comparison of the audit
12:06:16 results to the prior year.
12:06:17 As far as audit differences or audit adjustments, in
12:06:21 2008 we had eight audit differences.
12:06:24 As I pointed out in 2009 we had four.
12:06:26 So I think you see a little bit of improvement there.
12:06:29 As far as findings considered to be significant
12:06:31 deficiencies and material weaknesses, we had two
12:06:35 material weaknesses and one significant deficiency in
12:06:39 2009 we only had the two material weaknesses that were
12:06:43 repeat findings, the significant deficiency was
12:06:45 actually addressed and therefore not reported in 2009.
12:06:49 As far as single audit or federal and state grant
12:06:52 program awed a it, we had two findings in the prior
12:06:55 year, both of those were addressed, and we only had one
12:06:59 new finding.
12:07:00 As far as the management letter, we had three comments
12:07:02 in the prior year in 2008, and just one comment in the
12:07:06 currents year. So I think overall there was some
12:07:09 improvement that was noted.
12:07:11 Pages 8 and 9 is what Mrs. Wise was referring to.
12:07:16 We just put together a highlight of the general fund,
12:07:19 the total fund balance as a percent of total
12:07:21 expenditures, and also the unreserved undesignated
12:07:25 general fund balance.
12:07:26 It really for your informational purposes.
12:07:28 You see from 2005, trends, fund balances, both total
12:07:34 and unreserved, undesignated increasing.
12:07:38 2010 we know it means balancing the budget you used
12:07:41 some of those reserves that everybody continuing over
12:07:43 the years.
12:07:43 What that did is it really, the 2010 budgeted numbers,
12:07:48 it pushed back about 90 days that you can cover of your
12:07:51 expenditures with, the leftover reserves, if you will,
12:07:55 at the end of 2010 based on your budget.
12:07:57 And the total general fund and unreserved undesignated
12:08:01 put it just under 60 days.
12:08:03 A rule of thumb in the industry is you want to
12:08:04 typically between your unreserved undesignated between
12:08:08 30 and 60 days, right around 58, 57.
12:08:11 So you are still fine even though you are using that.
12:08:13 But the point that I want to make is if that practice
12:08:16 continues, and they have to continue, you are going to
12:08:19 be getting down around that 30-day level, and that is
12:08:22 something obviously as a matter of policy you would
12:08:24 clearly want to manage.
12:08:32 Those are really the significant points.
12:08:33 There are some required things I am required to
12:08:39 communicate to you.
12:08:39 I am only going to highlight a few of them.
12:08:41 If you have the dock number front of you, I will point
12:08:43 out on page 15 the very first item, the adoption of or
12:08:48 change in the accounting principles.
12:08:49 There were two new accounting standards that were
12:08:51 required to be adopted by the city during fiscal '09.
12:08:55 They were both adopted.
12:08:57 Neither of them had any financial impact to the city's
12:08:59 financial statement.
12:09:03 Page 16.
12:09:04 The very last item as far as fraud and illegal act.
12:09:07 I know that's something you are interested in.
12:09:08 We are required to perform a significant number of
12:09:10 procedures to detect if there was a material fraud that
12:09:13 occurred in your organization.
12:09:14 We performed all those procedures and did not identify
12:09:17 any instances of fraud, irregularity, illegal acts or
12:09:22 anything of that nature.
12:09:24 Lastly, on page 17, there were no disagreements with
12:09:28 management during the audit, no difficulties we
12:09:31 encountered in performing the awed: In fact, we do
12:09:35 continue to receive excellent cooperation from
12:09:36 management and in performing our audit.
12:09:39 There were no consultations that management made with
12:09:41 other accountants of which we are aware and Ernst &
12:09:44 Young is independent of the city to perform your audit.
12:09:48 That's really the audit results in a nutshell.
12:09:50 If there's anything else you would like me to cover in
12:09:52 more detail, I would be happy to, or if you have any
12:09:54 questions on the CAFR as well.
12:09:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It was very well presented in the
12:10:03 amounts of cases that you found, and misappropriated of
12:10:11 things that you found and from previous years.
12:10:14 I think there was one case, if I remember, where the
12:10:16 year-ended and the moneys in the prior year, and I
12:10:20 guess that was handled at the closing or something,
12:10:24 they did that.
12:10:25 >>> Yes, that's correct.
12:10:26 That's the cut-off situation.
12:10:28 It happens from time to time.
12:10:29 Management does a really good job of having a good
12:10:32 process to detect those things.
12:10:34 >> It was very well presented.
12:10:38 And easy to understand even from a novice.
12:10:42 >> Great.
12:10:44 That's all I have for you unless you have further
12:10:45 questions or comments on the audit.
12:10:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you for coming.
12:10:49 >> Thank you again for your time.
12:10:51 I appreciate you squeezing me in right before lunch.
12:10:53 >>GWEN MILLER: We are going to recess until 1:30.
12:10:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to receive and file.
12:11:00 >> Second.
12:11:00 (Motion carried)
12:11:01 (City Council recess)
12:11:05 Saul-Sena here.
13:36:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
13:36:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. John Dingfelder will not be back
13:36:13 for the evening session.
13:36:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Afternoon?
13:36:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Afternoon.
13:36:16 The 1:30 meeting he won't be back for.
13:36:19 I don't know where he is.
13:36:25 Ordinance for first reading.
13:36:27 Mr. Miranda, do you have that?
13:36:29 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
13:36:34 Item 75 is an ordinance for first reading.
13:36:40 At our last meeting, City Council asked the staff of
13:36:44 the legal department to give further consideration to
13:36:46 two issues.
13:36:47 The first issue was flexibility in the permitting
13:36:51 process for the nonmodular news racks, the stand-alone.
13:36:56 The prior ordinance required the submittal of a site
13:36:59 The substitute ordinance requires that the applicant
13:37:02 provide the total number and exact location of each as
13:37:05 well as an affidavit that the locations are in
13:37:07 compliance with the ordinance.
13:37:14 City Council asked to us look into the imposition of
13:37:18 The prior ordinance and the current ordinance expressly
13:37:21 prohibit imposing any fees for any news wrack
13:37:26 In response, the revised ordinance allows city
13:37:31 imposition of fees for the modular niece wracks only,
13:37:35 which require the submittal of dimension site plan.
13:37:42 It allows City Council to set this by resolution.
13:37:44 If it passes on first reading today, at second reading
13:37:47 the resolution actually setting those fees will be put
13:37:50 on the agenda to go with second reading.
13:37:53 There were some issues that were brought up this
13:37:55 morning that I would like to address briefly.
13:37:57 I believe the Tribune brought up two issues.
13:38:01 The first one, they had some concerns with the
13:38:04 provision in section 22-151 that prohibit news wracks
13:38:08 from being chained, bolted or attached to traffic
13:38:11 signs, utility poles or traffic control devices.
13:38:14 Just for your information, your current ordinance as
13:38:17 it's written today prohibits news wracks to any traffic
13:38:22 control device.
13:38:23 Staff had asked that the language be expanded somewhat.
13:38:25 I realize the attorney has asked that you limit the
13:38:29 language to only be city-owned signs, utility poles or
13:38:33 traffic control device, and that would be a policy
13:38:36 I think I believe the Tribune also asked that you
13:38:39 strike at the end of that sentence the term "or similar
13:38:43 fixture" as being vague.
13:38:47 This is an area protected by the first amendment.
13:38:50 We like it to be as specific as possible.
13:38:52 Since a similar fixture is further defined by traffic
13:38:55 signage, utility pole or traffic control device, it up
13:38:59 to City Council if you feel that that is invasion with
13:39:05 the first amendment that, is up to you as well.
13:39:07 The second issue had to do with the fees.
13:39:10 Again the fee resolution had to be approved by City
13:39:12 Council at the second hearing but I do agree with their
13:39:14 statement that the fees have to be justified and be no
13:39:18 more than the processing the application.
13:39:20 I'm available if there are any questions.
13:39:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Questions from council members?
13:39:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: A little clarification, even though
13:39:25 you just said it, it wasn't clear.
13:39:33 There are fees mentioned here but we are not adopting
13:39:35 them till the next time.
13:39:37 Why aren't they addressed now?
13:39:39 >>REBECCA KERT: Because the ordinance, in its current
13:39:42 state as it exists today, prohibits the imposition of
13:39:46 any fees.
13:39:47 I had to change that to allow you to even consider a
13:39:51 >> Wasn't there some conversation in the letter from
13:39:53 the Tribune about $250 versus $25?
13:39:56 >> Yes.
13:39:56 >> But what's before us today doesn't address any
13:40:00 dollar amount?
13:40:01 >> Correct.
13:40:01 >> The on the question I have was from someone who
13:40:06 called and said, Linda, did you know that his
13:40:10 interpretation of this is that where we have these
13:40:12 modular units that individual publications are deprived
13:40:17 from having wracks or dispensing devices.
13:40:21 Is that true?
13:40:23 >>REBECCA KERT: No, that is not true.
13:40:25 And I did speak with him, and a day or so ago, and
13:40:28 advised him of such, and I sent a copy of the
13:40:32 ordinance, if you have any further questions.
13:40:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thanks for that clarification.
13:40:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Other questions by council members?
13:40:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: (off microphone).
13:40:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Mrs. Saul-Sena, would you like to read
13:40:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to place the following
13:40:52 ordinance for first reading.
13:40:53 An ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida amending
13:40:55 city Tampa code of ordinances chapter 22 streets and
13:40:58 sidewalks, section 22-5, definitions.
13:41:02 Section 22-57 regarding fees, division 3, subdivision
13:41:07 V, news wracks, establishing criteria and approval of
13:41:11 application for a modular news wrack permit on public
13:41:15 rights-of-way, and making general comprehensive changes
13:41:18 regarding news racks, repealing all ordinances or parts
13:41:22 of ordinances in conflict, providing for severability,
13:41:25 providing an effective date.
13:41:26 And the question raised by the Trib about the vague
13:41:29 language about can't be attached to this or something
13:41:33 similar, we are striking that, correct?
13:41:35 >> That is up to City Council, if would you like me to
13:41:38 strike it between first and second reading.
13:41:39 >> I would like you to.
13:41:40 I think it is extremely vague.
13:41:41 >> If that's included in your motion.
13:41:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That is included in my motion.
13:41:45 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: So we are going to wipe that
13:41:47 section out?
13:41:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Just those words.
13:41:49 >> Did K they attach to a telephone pole that doesn't
13:41:52 belong to the city?
13:41:53 >>REBECCA KERT: The way it's written now, no, they
13:41:56 cannot, cannot attach to the any traffic signs, utility
13:42:00 poles or traffic control device, period.
13:42:02 >> City toned.
13:42:04 Doesn't it say that?
13:42:04 >> No.
13:42:05 That is the proposed language by the Tribune.
13:42:07 That's not in the portion before you.
13:42:12 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm sorry, I walked in late and just
13:42:16 catching up.
13:42:16 What about the second question and the letter from the
13:42:19 Tribune lawyer?
13:42:20 >> This doesn't address the fees at all.
13:42:22 This just allows you to consider a resolution which
13:42:25 should be coming back at second reading setting the
13:42:28 The amounts are not contained in the ordinance.
13:42:29 >> And you shouldn't have fees at all.
13:42:38 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Madam Chairman, what's due on
13:42:48 these fees, are we going to start collecting
13:42:52 >>REBECCA KERT: I don't believe that there's any -- if
13:42:57 your question is to whether or not any existing modular
13:43:01 news wracks would have to pay a fee, they will have to
13:43:05 come and get a permit but it's my understanding that
13:43:06 the administration is not proposing that they have to
13:43:09 pay a fee, that they just get a permit if they are
13:43:12 already existing, because you have already worked with
13:43:14 them to install it in the right-of-way.
13:43:16 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
13:43:21 Did anyone second?
13:43:23 Nobody is seconding it?
13:43:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Are we going to get a second?
13:43:46 If not it going to die for lack of a second.
13:43:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can we continue it to next week?
13:43:53 I move to continue to our next council meeting, which
13:43:56 is March 4th under first reading.
13:44:00 That will give everybody a chance to maybe do
13:44:02 additional research.
13:44:02 >> Second.
13:44:07 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Can we have him address us on
13:44:12 that issue?
13:44:13 >>GWEN MILLER: You have to reopen.
13:44:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council's pleasure.
13:44:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to reopen.
13:44:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to reopen.
13:44:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I don't want to vote against it but
13:44:24 the way the rules read --
13:44:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did you reopen the hearing?
13:44:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We are going to hear the same thing
13:44:34 There's a hundred people in this room today that came
13:44:38 for something else on the agenda.
13:44:39 Why don't we wait till March 4th when these people
13:44:42 have had their say with us, whatever they are bringing
13:44:45 I don't know.
13:44:46 So that everybody has the chance and the opportunity to
13:44:50 be heard.
13:44:52 That's all I'm saying.
13:44:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I remove my motion.
13:44:57 I move to continue this to March 4th under second
13:45:00 reading -- first reading.
13:45:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: First reading which would be under
13:45:04 public docket.
13:45:05 >>REBECCA KERT: And I will submit a substitute
13:45:09 ordinance with the change that was included in your
13:45:11 earlier motion.
13:45:12 Is that part of your direction?
13:45:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes, thank you.
13:45:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Well, if I can clarify, or ask for
13:45:19 Normally your first readings appear as they do here,
13:45:22 not set for public hearing.
13:45:23 You have the option to do that and set it as a public
13:45:27 hearing or put it under staff report.
13:45:30 For a time certain.
13:45:31 >> I'm not sure the time certain meant time certain.
13:45:38 >> And did you want people to have the opportunity to
13:45:40 speak at that time?
13:45:43 >> We have a motion and second to continue item number
13:45:46 75 until next week.
13:45:48 >> Allowing the public to speak at that time.
13:45:56 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion say Aye.
13:45:58 Opposed, Nay.
13:46:00 And item number 76.
13:46:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We don't have a lot of time to talk
13:46:10 about this, or the number 77 today.
13:46:13 Because these other things that seem more pressing.
13:46:17 So I wonder if we could do this at the end of our
13:46:21 meeting, and the people, the staff people could watch
13:46:24 it on television and come back at the end of the
13:46:25 >>MARY MULHERN: Considering the second on this motion
13:46:33 was Mr. Dingfelder who is not here, it might make more
13:46:36 sense to continue this.
13:46:36 >> Move to continue this to March 4th under staff
13:46:43 And this will be at the top of the queue.
13:46:47 76 and 77.
13:46:49 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
13:46:52 All in favor?
13:46:54 Item 78.
13:46:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That was continued to March 4th
13:47:06 when you approved the agenda.
13:47:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 79.
13:47:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You received a written report from
13:47:11 the chief regarding that item.
13:47:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to receive and file.
13:47:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
13:47:16 (Motion carried).
13:47:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 78.
13:47:18 We have that, too.
13:47:19 Need to receive and file.
13:47:20 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That one as well if you wish.
13:47:24 >>GWEN MILLER: You need to receive and file that?
13:47:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you have a motion.
13:47:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
13:47:29 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
13:47:30 (Motion carried)
13:47:31 Item number 81.
13:47:34 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 80.
13:47:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Right, 80.
13:47:37 >>GWEN MILLER: We did that one.
13:47:41 We had the report from Pete Johnson.
13:47:43 We got a report on that.
13:47:46 We received and filed it.
13:47:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Madam Chairman, I have a question
13:47:51 for legal.
13:47:52 Legal, Mr. Shelby, or Mr. Fletcher.
13:47:57 We have heard a lot of back and forth on item 80.
13:48:00 And I just wondered, does City Council have the ability
13:48:04 to have like a special workshop meeting, and perhaps
13:48:13 clarify the issues that have been raised?
13:48:18 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: On item 80?
13:48:20 Frankly this is an issue that I would consider way down
13:48:23 in the details of how the administration manages a
13:48:28 So while certainly there could be policy issues
13:48:31 associated with how the housing program is run, in this
13:48:35 particular instance it's simply a disagreement between
13:48:38 Mr. Johnson and the staff as to how that should have
13:48:42 been run.
13:48:44 And so in that case I just don't see that as an
13:48:47 appropriate topic for council.
13:48:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion to receive and file the written
13:48:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
13:48:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
13:48:58 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor say Aye.
13:49:01 Mr. Shelby.
13:49:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Obviously as individual council
13:49:04 members you can make opportunities to hear both sides
13:49:07 of the story, and if you feel wish to have any further
13:49:10 conversation individually, that's your prerogative.
13:49:14 Based on what you heard.
13:49:15 But in terms of discussion, I agree with Mr. Fletcher,
13:49:18 and he's absolutely correct, that could get involved in
13:49:21 the administration of the particular program is outside
13:49:23 the purview.
13:49:26 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 81 need to receive and file.
13:49:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have to admit I was very
13:49:33 disappointed when I read this, that the transportation
13:49:35 department couldn't develop, then I heard something
13:49:39 encouraging and that was that the bicycle pedestrian
13:49:44 advocacy group is actually working on safe ways to get
13:49:48 to the park downtown.
13:49:50 And so what I would like to do is put this on our
13:49:53 agenda 60 days, which would be the second meeting in
13:50:01 I will give them to the beginning of May, the first
13:50:03 meeting in May, to report back to us on safe routes,
13:50:06 north, south, east, west, to get to our downtown park.
13:50:09 >> The county or the city?
13:50:11 >> The city.
13:50:11 >> Well, the city can ask the county.
13:50:16 >> I believe this is really a collaborative effort.
13:50:18 The whole point is -- the city is working on it with
13:50:28 The transportation department, representative from the
13:50:29 transportation department, is working in collaboration
13:50:31 with citizens to develop safe Blake racks.
13:50:43 I would like a report back live to appear and report
13:50:46 the first week in --
13:50:49 >> May 6th then.
13:50:51 >> Second.
13:50:51 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
13:50:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Sports magazine said that we are
13:51:04 60, a staff effort in creating these choices for our
13:51:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 82, receive and file the report.
13:51:15 >> So moved.
13:51:16 >> Second.
13:51:16 (Motion carried)
13:51:21 Item 83.
13:51:25 Anyone going to speak on those items, would you please
13:51:27 stand and raise your right hand?
13:51:28 (Oath administered by Clerk)
13:51:40 We need to open the public hearing.
13:51:41 >> So moved.
13:51:43 >> Second.
13:51:44 >> Item 83.
13:52:08 >> Land Development Coordination.
13:52:11 A question vacating unimproved alley from Himes Avenue.
13:52:24 EVERINA street.
13:52:27 Petitioner's property is highlighted in red.
13:52:33 Himes to the west.
13:52:35 And Everina to the east.
13:52:39 Behind the sports Avenue sports complex.
13:52:47 There is a picture of the alley looking west from
13:52:50 EVERINA street.
13:52:53 And you see about 100 feet in, and I have a closeup of
13:53:00 So the alley is partially blocked.
13:53:06 And there's a picture from the west end looking east
13:53:10 from Himes Avenue, and also across the alley, plus the
13:53:14 utility pole in the middle of the alley.
13:53:21 There is a picture of the petitioner's property.
13:53:27 Also at the top, this is platted in 1907.
13:53:31 This is the alley that's being petitioned for
13:53:33 highlighted in yellow.
13:53:36 There were only six alleys platted in the whole
13:53:41 And staff has no objections to vacating the request as
13:53:49 long as utilities are reserved for Verizon.
13:53:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Council members?
13:53:59 Is there anyone in the public that would like to speak
13:54:00 on item 83?
13:54:02 >> Rob Wallace, 5119 North Florida Avenue.
13:54:13 I'm hear for the petitioner.
13:54:15 And lived at this property since 1990 and the alley is
13:54:22 a nonfunctional alley.
13:54:23 It has no municipal services in it.
13:54:26 There is a pole line for utilities, Verizon, an
13:54:31 easement, so it's unused space.
13:54:39 There's 17 homes that back up onto that property.
13:54:42 17 homeowners.
13:54:43 So we just feel that the alley doesn't serve a purpose.
13:54:47 All the other ones in the vicinity have been closed.
13:54:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker.
13:54:57 Did you want to speak?
13:54:58 >> Before you speak, I'm just curious.
13:55:01 >> I'm here in regard to the closing of the alley that
13:55:06 these gentlemen have been talking to.
13:55:07 >> You need to give me your name first.
13:55:09 Put your name on the record for me.
13:55:10 >> I'm sort of deaf.
13:55:12 What did you say?
13:55:13 >> Tell me your name.
13:55:14 >> Oh, Steven Hager.
13:55:20 I'm here in regard to the alley between Himes and
13:55:26 EVERINA, and the second house in from EVERINA.
13:55:31 What they did with the whole existing alley.
13:55:34 I just want to reserve and keep it so we can get in and
13:55:42 out of the backyard.
13:55:45 What we use it for is when we have company, they can
13:55:48 come on up the street, and park in the back.
13:55:55 If we have vacation people coming down that stay two or
13:55:58 three days, they can also get off the main road.
13:56:04 In hurricane season, or bad weather season, we can
13:56:08 leave our bigger unit in the back of the home and we
13:56:17 have been there for 49 years.
13:56:20 This is the first time the subject of the alleys have
13:56:27 come up.
13:56:28 I would very much like to keep access to the alley and
13:56:32 to my backyard.
13:56:33 And as far as the rest of the alley goes, that will
13:56:37 have to be worked out.
13:56:39 Thank you.
13:56:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
13:56:40 Would anyone else like to speak?
13:56:41 >> My name is Rosyln Norman Elliott, and I am adjacent
13:56:54 to my neighbors to the back.
13:56:57 We were talking about access and right-of-way.
13:57:01 In my seven years of living there, I have not seen any
13:57:05 vehicle back and forth between that alleyway.
13:57:10 He has an existing temporary fence put up on that side
13:57:13 for the last seven years, and on the other there's no
13:57:17 So my back fence at this property line.
13:57:20 So basically has ten feet of the alleyway for the last
13:57:24 seven years at least to my knowledge.
13:57:27 So I would like for it to be closed off.
13:57:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Maybe when the public is done,
13:57:38 staff can come up.
13:57:41 Better explain.
13:57:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else like to speak?
13:57:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Could our staff come up and explain
13:57:50 with the maps where the older gentleman spoke who was
13:57:54 concerned about where it was and where the petitioner
13:57:57 is asking for a vacation?
13:57:58 >> The gentleman that spoke is the second property in.
13:58:09 The stock fence begins with the west property line.
13:58:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Could we keep the alley closed
13:58:15 behind his house and vacate it to the west?
13:58:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Closed or open?
13:58:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Leave it open for the gentleman.
13:58:25 The older gentleman.
13:58:30 Couldn't we keep it open for the first two properties
13:58:32 and then close it after that to the west?
13:58:35 >> We are not opposed to a partial vacating.
13:58:37 We have done it before in the past.
13:58:39 Technically, it already blocked off from his west
13:58:42 property line all the way to the west.
13:58:44 >> But this way with, it would allow the gentleman who
13:58:47 is using the alley for access for his garage.
13:58:51 >> I did receive a letter from the property owner to
13:58:52 the south side, the first lot here, lived there for 56
13:58:56 years, and she would like it closed.
13:58:57 >> But she's not here.
13:59:01 >> She's not here.
13:59:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just to remind you, council, the
13:59:07 purpose of the vacation is the weighing of whether it
13:59:11 remains a public purpose for the decision to vacate the
13:59:15 right-of-way, and to not necessarily weigh who comes to
13:59:23 speak and in favor of an opposition.
13:59:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Shouldn't our basic premise be it's
13:59:30 public land, and for the public, if someone wants to
13:59:32 close this, that they are making that request to the
13:59:34 city, but that our overall responsibility is the
13:59:38 And if somebody wants it open, which currently is
13:59:42 legally and somebody wants it closed, that the
13:59:45 preponderance of weight should be going to open.
13:59:48 So if we were to open the first two lot and close to
13:59:50 the west of that, that would mean the petitioner's
13:59:53 request as well as the request of the person that wants
13:59:55 it open.
13:59:56 >> After speaking with legal, we think it probably
14:00:01 better to vacate the whole thing and reserve a
14:00:04 transportation easement over the eastern portion for
14:00:06 access over the first 100 feet.
14:00:08 Technically it vacated.
14:00:10 It just going --
14:00:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It can never be blocked off.
14:00:16 >>MARY MULHERN: Don't go away, because I don't know.
14:00:23 I don't understand this.
14:00:24 When you look at the little map with the lots, the
14:00:30 plotted map, is that alley accessible between Everina
14:00:38 and Himes?
14:00:40 Can I walk from one end to the other?
14:00:44 >>JAMES COOK: Only for the first lot at Everina.
14:00:49 >> And that's the part that the gentleman doesn't want
14:00:51 to have closed.
14:00:52 >> He's on the second lot, and wants rear access to the
14:00:57 >> It's interesting to me that we have one resident on
14:01:01 all these residences asking for vacation.
14:01:05 So to vacate the whole alley --
14:01:10 >> It's been my experience over the years by people who
14:01:13 live along that alley have the opinion it's already
14:01:15 been vacated previously because they have already
14:01:18 incorporated it into their yards.
14:01:19 It all fenced off.
14:01:21 Utility structures within the alley.
14:01:24 Plants have been around since -- annexed into the city
14:01:29 in 1953.
14:01:30 >> It doesn't look like to me.
14:01:32 >> That's just the beginning of it.
14:01:34 >> But that's what we are talking about.
14:01:35 >> Beyond that fence --
14:01:39 >> Which fence?
14:01:40 At the end here?
14:01:40 >> Yes.
14:01:41 Once you get beyond that fence, there's all kinds of
14:01:43 structures and encroachments inside the alleyway.
14:01:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Which are technically illegal now
14:01:50 because the alley is off.
14:01:52 >>JAMES COOK: That's correct.
14:01:54 >>MARY MULHERN: Is the petitioner --
14:01:55 >> They are not even in the picture.
14:01:58 They are in the middle of the block.
14:01:59 They have already incorporated.
14:02:00 >> So they are using it.
14:02:10 My feeling is an alley here, it's nice when you live in
14:02:15 the city to have an alley.
14:02:16 And if anybody would like to have the alley behind
14:02:18 their backyard, that they already have access to, they
14:02:23 So if we are going to ask for vacation, I wouldn't go
14:02:28 beyond parts that have already been used illegally,
14:02:33 because that's an alley.
14:02:38 You can walk your dog out there.
14:02:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Madam Chair, you can't look at one
14:02:47 thing and isolate it in 50 different pieces.
14:02:50 It already isolated in 50 different pieces.
14:02:53 The lady at the end wants it closed.
14:02:55 The next lot wants it open.
14:02:56 You can't have cake if you are diabetic.
14:03:01 So what I'm saying here is either close it or tell the
14:03:04 people, no, you are not going to close it.
14:03:11 It's already closed down the middle, with structures on
14:03:17 So I don't understand.
14:03:19 Maybe -- you cannot apiece everyone.
14:03:25 If the -- appease everyone.
14:03:28 The lady want it closed from way heard.
14:03:31 The next one wants it open.
14:03:32 And there's evidence that says that from what I heard
14:03:34 from one of the neighbors, no one goes to the back.
14:03:37 So, I mean, I have to take what I hear as the facts.
14:03:40 >>MARY MULHERN: I was just going to say, the fact is
14:03:49 part of it is -- there is an alley.
14:03:54 Part of it exists as an alley.
14:03:56 The on the part is illegally used.
14:04:01 So I think if you have got two people, and the one
14:04:04 person wants it to remain public, I think we ought to
14:04:11 at least let him have his portion remain public.
14:04:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
14:04:17 >>JULIA COLE: And I would like to remind you legally
14:04:29 what's in front of you and what your options are.
14:04:31 >> Ronnie Kelly.
14:04:35 3401 west Dorchester street which is one of the two
14:04:38 houses the gentleman wants to keep open for his own
14:04:41 personal purposes.
14:04:44 That alley from that fence all the way back to Himes,
14:04:48 that has been closed off for nearly 40 years.
14:04:51 When the city quit using that alley for trash quickup,
14:04:54 everybody decided just to incorporate it in their own
14:04:57 and that's been over 40 years.
14:04:59 My mother-in-law, God rest her soul, was asked by this
14:05:03 gents many years ago to keep that portion of the alley
14:05:06 open for his use, and she granted it.
14:05:10 She's now gone.
14:05:11 Somebody wants to close the entire alley up.
14:05:13 Why should he say, okay, we'll let the alley from the
14:05:16 fence, the west side of his property, down to Himes be
14:05:20 closed, and then these last two we can't?
14:05:23 That's not right.
14:05:24 Either you close all the alley or you don't close any
14:05:27 of them.
14:05:27 That's all I have got to say.
14:05:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker.
14:05:33 You can't speak again.
14:05:34 The person behind you.
14:05:40 >> My name is Tim Totten, 3407 Dorchester.
14:05:47 I have been there for 40 years.
14:05:49 And it's been -- shall we say, I guess we didn't look
14:05:59 into it carefully but everybody thought the alleyway
14:06:01 was part of their jurisdiction or right to maintain
14:06:06 their five feet.
14:06:08 They had some people actually take the 10 feet halfway
14:06:13 and then the other people took the other ten feet the
14:06:15 other way and put in some gardens and things like that.
14:06:18 So there's no real structures down there.
14:06:20 But it was all fences.
14:06:22 And the gentleman here, he has been keeping it open.
14:06:25 He's been parking vans and other things in the
14:06:31 But I don't think he used in so long.
14:06:34 There is a temporary fence he put up.
14:06:36 It's the first little barricade that you hit.
14:06:39 And so basically he fenced it off a long time ago
14:06:45 And he still wants half.
14:06:47 Then I heard the comment, well, there's one person that
14:06:50 wants to close it and one person that wants it open.
14:06:53 And I just wanted you to know the room is full of many
14:06:57 more people besides just one on one.
14:06:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else like to speak?
14:07:06 You can't speak again.
14:07:07 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want to say I'm sorry, I wish I
14:07:10 hadn't said anything because I didn't realize we hadn't
14:07:12 heard from everyone.
14:07:14 So what would help me -- and the only thing that really
14:07:17 concerns me is that when I look at this photograph, and
14:07:20 I don't know how old it is.
14:07:22 It looks like it goes pretty far back but I can't tell.
14:07:24 So how many -- that's only one house?
14:07:35 Thank you.
14:07:35 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
14:07:39 The discussion in front of council when you are
14:07:41 considering a vacation is whether or not whatever is
14:07:45 being requested vacated in this particular alley.
14:07:49 If there is a need in the public interest and keep that
14:07:51 within the public trust within the city's right-of-way,
14:07:55 that it has control over.
14:07:57 You have a couple of options.
14:07:58 You can vacate the entire right-of-way after making a
14:08:03 determination after review of the evidence that this is
14:08:05 an alley that's no longer needed to be held in public
14:08:08 trust in the public interest.
14:08:09 Your other option is to have -- well, to deny it.
14:08:13 Your third option is you can keep a public
14:08:16 transportation easement over the entire area, or a
14:08:19 partial area.
14:08:22 I note that if this remains right-of-way, or
14:08:24 alternatively the entire alley remains as a public
14:08:28 easement, there can be no structures affected which
14:08:31 would block the public's use of that area.
14:08:33 So any of the structures that are currently within that
14:08:36 area that maybe have been there for a period of time
14:08:40 are not legal and will need to be removed.
14:08:43 So those are a couple of your options.
14:08:47 If City Council determines that maybe keeping a portion
14:08:49 of the alley either unvacated which is not what staff
14:08:53 would recommend but keep maybe a portion of it with a
14:08:56 public transportation easement, typically when we do
14:08:59 some kind of partial easement or partial holding open,
14:09:03 right-of-way, we always like from the transportation
14:09:06 perspective to have turn-around for traffic so they are
14:09:09 not having to back up but given that there are only two
14:09:13 or four houses this may be a situation write don't
14:09:15 think that would be necessary, and I don't know if the
14:09:18 transportation department has a concern with that.
14:09:20 I don't sense that they would but I do want to say that
14:09:23 for the record so at some point in the future if we
14:09:25 have that conversation we are able to distinguish the
14:09:27 situation from maybe another situation.
14:09:29 So those are the options and it would be up to City
14:09:31 Council to determine whether or not you want to either
14:09:33 amend the ordinance, to put in place a public
14:09:36 transportation easements for a portion of that.
14:09:38 In that case, I don't know between first and second
14:09:41 reading, if we need to continue first reading, and
14:09:44 alternatively you can approve it as it is or deny it.
14:09:48 >>MARY MULHERN: Was everyone noticed that lives
14:09:51 adjacent to this?
14:09:55 >> Our process will require that everyone who is
14:09:57 adjacent to the right-of-way would be noticed.
14:10:04 So they are noticed this is a public hearing and they
14:10:06 would be noticed.
14:10:07 So they should have been noticed.
14:10:10 >> Have they been noticed?
14:10:12 Who can tell me that?
14:10:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner, will you come back up?
14:10:16 >>> As is required by the vacating process, we had to
14:10:23 send a letter to each of the 17 property owners, and
14:10:28 the postal service verified.
14:10:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you have any closing remarks?
14:10:32 >>> Yes, ma'am, if I may.
14:10:35 Mrs. Hood, the petitioner, as I said has been there
14:10:38 since 1990.
14:10:39 Four years ago, she looked into this matter and talked
14:10:41 to some city staff people about closing the alley.
14:10:44 At the time, she was just interested in closing her
14:10:47 portion of the alley.
14:10:48 And she didn't file all the paperwork at that time.
14:10:52 What we understood is perhaps in the last couple of
14:10:54 years the city has maybe made a decision that there
14:10:56 will be no partial closing of alleys, it's either close
14:11:00 the whole alley or don't close the whole alley.
14:11:03 At least that's what we were told.
14:11:05 Staff, during the process, I thought they indicated
14:11:08 that on the west end of this alley that there was
14:11:12 either improper platting or something that led them to
14:11:15 believe that there was not a true alley all the way
14:11:19 The west end had a problem.
14:11:21 In any event, and you heard from the staff all of the
14:11:26 alleys in the vicinity have been closed.
14:11:28 There is no city function to any of those alleys.
14:11:32 This alley is in the same position.
14:11:34 There is no water lines, sewer lines or solid waste
14:11:37 pickup in the back anymore, so the petitioner is simply
14:11:40 trying to, I guess, codify what has happened over the
14:11:46 last 40 years, as you heard, where there is no function
14:11:49 there, and that land she feels should revert to the
14:11:55 property owners, and the city is not maintaining it and
14:11:57 has not maintained anything in there for decades.
14:12:00 So we would just ask you to look favorably on the
14:12:02 petition, if you feel that that western end, or the
14:12:05 eastern end of Mr. Higgins would be of some value.
14:12:09 We would not be opposed to some easement on that end.
14:12:12 That would leave it open for them.
14:12:16 By closing it, it still would not have prevented Mr.
14:12:19 Higgins from working an arrangement of having some
14:12:22 easement with his neighbors that would allow for the
14:12:26 purpose that he's still looking for.
14:12:27 So we just ask you to look favorably upon our petition.
14:12:30 >>MARY MULHERN: The question for land development
14:12:32 then, is this a policy when people come to you for
14:12:37 Do we have a policy?
14:12:40 Or you always recommend that you close an entire alley?
14:12:44 >> Well, city code prohibits you from partially
14:12:47 vacating, doing a partial vacating.
14:12:49 What happens with Tampa City Council is up to you.
14:12:53 In the past we've done partial vacatings, we have done
14:12:55 vacatings with turnarounds and without turnarounds.
14:13:00 Just to prohibit them.
14:13:03 But we can work everything out once we get over here.
14:13:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think that we have a positive
14:13:09 solution to this.
14:13:10 We can make the petitioner happy by vacating their
14:13:15 portion of it and the rest of the way down and allowing
14:13:19 a transportation easement behind the man in the red
14:13:21 sweater for two houses down.
14:13:23 That would be my motion.
14:13:24 >>GWEN MILLER: We haven't closed yet.
14:13:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I would like to ask the city a
14:13:42 You have a letter from the lady at the end that says
14:13:44 she wants it closed?
14:13:47 >> Yes.
14:13:47 >> So how can you close that and leave the next one
14:13:50 >> You can't.
14:13:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: She wasn't the petitioner.
14:13:57 >>JAMES COOK: She's on the very end.
14:13:59 >> She may not be the petitioner but she has the same
14:14:02 right the gentleman in the red sweater has.
14:14:03 >>JAMES COOK: May I make a suggestion?
14:14:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes.
14:14:11 >>JAMES COOK: Just speaking from experience.
14:14:14 The property owner on the north side of the property at
14:14:16 the very corner --
14:14:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can you push it up a little more?
14:14:21 >>JAMES COOK: It very unlikely this property owner is
14:14:25 going to rip that fence and move it halfway through the
14:14:31 I'm surprised people don't incorporate the alley once
14:14:33 it's vacated.
14:14:34 So maybe this property owner that's objecting can work
14:14:38 out, the two abutting property owners, a private
14:14:43 That way the city is out of it.
14:14:45 If they can't we reserve the transportation and go back
14:14:48 to square one and give him the opportunity to talk to
14:14:51 the people on the end.
14:14:52 That way, it can be a private fence with a gate to
14:14:56 swing open, allowing him to drive in.
14:14:58 They don't have to move this fence.
14:15:03 It would be a three-party agreement.
14:15:04 >>MARY MULHERN: The gentleman that has the objection,
14:15:07 is his property the wrought iron fence?
14:15:16 >> (off microphone).
14:15:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Sir, you have to come up --
14:15:23 >>MARY MULHERN: He didn't need to do that either.
14:15:25 I Watt just trying to figure out.
14:15:29 I would like to make a substitute motion.
14:15:31 >>GWEN MILLER: We haven't closed the public meeting.
14:15:34 Any other questions?
14:15:35 We need to close the public hearing then.
14:15:38 >> Move to close.
14:15:38 >> Second.
14:15:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to close.
14:15:42 Ms. Mulhern?
14:15:43 >> I would move, after hearing all this testimony, to
14:15:48 vacate the entire alley.
14:15:50 There's one objection.
14:15:52 And I think that perhaps -- you said we could reserve a
14:15:59 transportation easement just for that?
14:16:03 And reserve transportation easement for that.
14:16:05 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
14:16:08 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
14:16:09 Opposed, Nay.
14:16:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Motion to direct legal department to
14:16:15 come back with an ordinance that will reflect that.
14:16:18 >>JULIA COLE: That is a change that I'm comfortable we
14:16:21 can make between first and second reading so I would
14:16:23 ask that you ask the department to come back with that
14:16:25 change in the ordinance between first and second
14:16:28 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to read this then?
14:16:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes.
14:16:30 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance vacating, closing,
14:16:35 discontinuing, and abandoning a certain right-of-way,
14:16:39 alleyway, lying south of Carrington street, north of
14:16:43 Dorchester street, east of Himes Avenue, and west of
14:16:45 the EVERINA in corrected map Oakland park, a
14:16:49 subdivision in the city of Tampa, Florida, the same
14:16:52 being more fully described in section 2 hereof subject
14:16:54 to the reservation of certain permanent easements as
14:16:57 set forth herein subject to certain covenants,
14:17:00 conditions and restrictions as more particularly
14:17:02 described herein providing an effective date.
14:17:03 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
14:17:07 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
14:17:09 Opposed, Nay.
14:17:10 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Scott and Dingfelder
14:17:13 being absent.
14:17:14 Second reading of the ordinance will be held March
14:17:18 4th at 9:30 a.m.
14:17:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 84.
14:17:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Go ahead.
14:17:49 >>LaCHONE DOCK: Land Development Coordination.
14:17:53 And I have been sworn.
14:17:54 The next item on the agenda is petition number V-10-50
14:17:59 for property located at 120 Gasparilla plaza, the
14:18:03 property is currently zoned CBD2.
14:18:06 The special use is for alcohol beverage sales, large
14:18:10 venue, 4(COP-X).
14:18:12 This allows for the sale of alcoholic beverages
14:18:14 regardless of alcoholic content for consumption on
14:18:17 premises only.
14:18:20 This is the site of the Tampa Museum of Art, which of
14:18:22 course is located downtown and the existing use is a
14:18:28 public cultural facility, site contains 139,603 square
14:18:35 The area under this request is 112,920 square feet of
14:18:40 which 17,324 square feet is outdoor area, which is
14:18:45 located on the ground floor.
14:18:50 And I have an aerial
14:19:02 And this is the site located here in blue.
14:19:06 That's the area for the alcoholic sales in blue.
14:19:08 The site is located in yellow boarded with Ashley drive
14:19:11 to the east of the site.
14:19:16 And the pictures.
14:19:19 This was of course when it was under construction but
14:19:22 this is the entrance to the site off of Ashley.
14:19:25 Another view.
14:19:25 That's the children's museum located directly next
14:19:31 This is a view after construction.
14:19:36 Another view.
14:19:45 >> You keep showing us pictures of the children's
14:19:47 You really mean the Tampa Museum of Art.
14:19:51 >> It next door.
14:19:55 The development review committee has reviewed the
14:19:57 petition, finds the request inconsistent with
14:19:58 applicable City of Tampa land development regulations.
14:20:02 However, the request for modifications between first an
14:20:05 second reading, the development review committee will
14:20:07 amend its determination and find the petition
14:20:11 And the revisions that are requested are solid waste,
14:20:15 and there are actually four notes that we are
14:20:18 requesting be placed on the site plan in between first
14:20:20 and second reading.
14:20:22 And I would like to put those notes on the record, if I
14:20:24 It's on page 2 of the staff report.
14:20:28 One is that it's the full responsibility of the Museum
14:20:31 of Art to ensure the 4-cubic-yard dumpster will be
14:20:37 rolled out, to be agreed 10 by 10 service area for
14:20:39 solid waste pickup, the other note is access doors to
14:20:43 the dumpster designated areas are to remain closed at
14:20:47 all times except during time of solid waste pickup.
14:20:50 To accommodate this, City of Tampa's truck, a 16-foot
14:20:56 has been provided, and service personnel to be
14:20:59 available on-site at the time of to ensure
14:21:04 accessibility to the dumpster.
14:21:05 And those notes are requested on the site plan between
14:21:08 first and second reading.
14:21:09 And that concludes the staff's presentation.
14:21:11 I'm available if you have any questions.
14:21:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Question by council members?
14:21:19 >> Kathryn Donnelly, Holland and Knight.
14:21:26 I know this is a project you are very familiar with,
14:21:29 and if you have any questions, the notes that were
14:21:32 requested to be added to the site plan are acceptable.
14:21:36 We have not received any phone calls in opposition or
14:21:40 any issues from neighbors.
14:21:43 I would ask that you approve.
14:21:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
14:21:47 would like to speak on item 84?
14:21:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to close.
14:21:52 >> Second.
14:21:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to close.
14:21:54 (Motion carried)
14:21:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move an ordinance approving a
14:22:13 special use S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales, large
14:22:17 venue, and making lawful the sale of beverages
14:22:20 regardless of alcoholic content, beer, wine and liquor
14:22:23 4(COP-X) for consumption on premises only at or from a
14:22:26 certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 120
14:22:30 Gasparilla plaza, Tampa, Florida, more particularly
14:22:33 described in section 2 therefore, imposing certain
14:22:37 conditions based upon the location of the property,
14:22:39 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict,
14:22:41 providing an effective date.
14:22:43 Just a footnote.
14:22:44 As long as it meets the requirements as stated by the
14:22:48 city's legal department and all on the departments that
14:22:53 might be involved.
14:22:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
14:22:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: All of us on council are so proud
14:23:00 of the New Tampa Museum of Art, and this will help the
14:23:02 museum improve it's bottom line which will benefit our
14:23:07 entire community.
14:23:08 So I'm excited.
14:23:09 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
14:23:11 All in favor of the motion?
14:23:14 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried with Dingfelder and
14:23:16 Scott being absent.
14:23:18 Second reading of the ordinance will be held March
14:23:20 4th at 9:30 a.m.
14:23:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 85.
14:23:40 >>LaCHONE DOCK: Land Development Coordination.
14:23:42 And I have been sworn.
14:23:43 The next item on the agenda is petition V-10-51 for the
14:23:47 property located at 17506 preserve walk lane, unit
14:23:51 number 3.
14:23:52 Property is currently zoned PDA, planned developmental
14:23:55 alternative for commercial strip center.
14:23:57 The proposed special use is for alcoholic beverage
14:24:00 sales small venue 4(COP) which allows for the sale of
14:24:03 alcoholic beverages regardless of alcoholic content for
14:24:06 consumption on the premises and in sealed containers
14:24:10 for consumption off premises.
14:24:12 According to the application, a bar lounge located
14:24:16 within the commercial strip center.
14:24:17 The shopping center contains 12,695 square feet.
14:24:21 The special use will contain 1,663 square feet,
14:24:27 consisting of 253 square feet of outdoor seating.
14:24:31 A total of 68 spaces are required with 76 spaces being
14:24:41 And I have an aerial of the site.
14:24:48 This is the site in yellow, on preserve walk lane,
14:24:52 Bruce B. Downs Boulevard is running along the east of
14:24:54 the site, and this area in blue is the location for the
14:24:57 requested alcohol sales.
14:25:00 Here is a picture.
14:25:13 Towards the west of the site.
14:25:15 This is just the other end of the strip that the site
14:25:17 is on.
14:25:20 And that's west of it.
14:25:22 The development review committee has reviewed the
14:25:26 petition and finds it inconsistent with applicable City
14:25:28 of Tampa land development regulations.
14:25:31 However, if the requested changes are made between
14:25:33 first and second reading, the development review
14:25:35 committee will and its determination and find the
14:25:38 petition consistent.
14:25:40 On page 2 of the staff report, council, there are three
14:25:44 changes requested, and I would like to put those on
14:25:47 These are additions we would like to have made to the
14:25:48 site plan between first and second reading.
14:25:51 One is in the data table, amend the area for proposed
14:25:54 sale to 1,663 square feet including 1400 square feet
14:25:58 indoor and 263 square feet outdoor.
14:26:02 Shade the outdoor area from proposed outdoor beverage
14:26:06 sales and identify the square footage.
14:26:08 The last note is in the site data table as the total
14:26:12 building occupancy.
14:26:13 That concludes staff's presentation.
14:26:15 I'm available if you have any questions.
14:26:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
14:26:24 >> Tom Elliott, petitioner.
14:26:28 We own and operate 13 locations in the southwest and
14:26:32 central Florida area.
14:26:33 We are responsible and conscientious operation with a
14:26:36 proven track record, very excited about the possibility
14:26:38 of opening a location in New Tampa.
14:26:41 And I'm here to answer any questions you may have about
14:26:45 who we are and what we do.
14:26:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Questions from council members?
14:26:50 Mr. Caetano?
14:26:51 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: How many square feet are you
14:26:53 having outside?
14:26:54 >>> 216 or 18 feet, sir. The property itself is
14:27:04 located adjacent to a preserve, and the surrounding is
14:27:08 all commercial.
14:27:09 In our opinion an ideal location for what we do.
14:27:11 >> And do you have 78 parking spaces?
14:27:14 That's for the whole center?
14:27:16 >> That's correct.
14:27:19 A requirement from transportation for all of the center
14:27:22 and what we will require.
14:27:26 That 68 number I believe is the whole entire center,
14:27:30 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: When we close the public hearing
14:27:41 I'll have something else to say.
14:27:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone else in the public that
14:27:44 would like to speak on item 835?
14:27:46 >> Move to close.
14:27:51 >> Second.
14:27:51 (Motion carried).
14:27:53 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Madam Chairman, I'm opposed to
14:27:56 the outside seating.
14:27:57 I don't know if Mr. Elliott has been up there in the
14:28:00 evenings, especially on weekends.
14:28:04 Starbuck's has a police officer assigned now on
14:28:07 And I asked the police officer, why are you here?
14:28:10 He says because there's too much disruption from the
14:28:13 kids coming from the movies.
14:28:14 Sometimes there's 150 kids in there, between there and
14:28:17 the ice cream place.
14:28:19 And you are pretty close to the back of Starbuck's.
14:28:22 And that's where these kids hang out.
14:28:24 >>> If I may, I don't know if I have a picture of
14:28:29 exactly --
14:28:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to reopen.
14:28:31 >> Second.
14:28:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to reopen.
14:28:34 >>> The outdoor area really is insulated.
14:28:38 I do understand your point about there being some
14:28:40 traffic in the front of the center.
14:28:42 But the Starbuck's is actually in an adjacent center,
14:28:45 not even on the same parcel.
14:28:47 >> I realize that.
14:28:49 >>> I know you are in that area.
14:28:50 But where we are with the outdoor, it's important to
14:28:54 what we do, and we definitively need an outdoor area to
14:29:01 provide -- we are a smoking facility, and the outdoor,
14:29:06 you know, that's part of what we do everywhere.
14:29:08 >> Can't they smoke inside the facility?
14:29:11 >> The whole point is that the outside provides a
14:29:19 smoke-free environment for people who don't smoke.
14:29:21 And where it's located, I do understand your point
14:29:24 about the front of it perhaps being a lot of traffic
14:29:26 and whatnot.
14:29:27 But where we are in the center and where our outdoor is
14:29:31 proposed, it is really definitively insulated from
14:29:34 where you are talking about.
14:29:36 And for your own edification, that area will have an
14:29:39 awning over it, and a wrought iron type gate that
14:29:45 encloses the area, and again really insulated from any
14:29:50 potential conflict with anyone else.
14:29:54 It right in the alleyway.
14:29:55 >> I specifically stay away from there on weekends.
14:29:58 The kids come from the theater in hundreds.
14:30:03 And they are going to be in and around your place.
14:30:06 That's for sure.
14:30:07 So I could not support that outside portion of it.
14:30:09 I'll support the inside, because you have no food.
14:30:12 It just a drinking establishment.
14:30:13 >> That's correct.
14:30:14 It's a neighborhood bar.
14:30:15 >> The outdoor, and again, now, it's really important
14:30:23 to what we do and how we do it and how we present it.
14:30:27 We have got -- there are double doors that come out to
14:30:34 it and just the overall presentation and whatnot.
14:30:36 I honestly believe -- and I believe I can convince you
14:30:39 that the outdoor portion, the way we are going to do
14:30:42 it, is not going to be affected by that.
14:30:46 And again we are responsible operators.
14:30:49 We have 13 other locations.
14:30:51 We certainly had to address mitigating circumstances in
14:30:54 other areas that all of our people are trained through
14:30:57 TIPSs, and that's the responsible vendor program, and
14:31:04 100 percent capability to successfully police our
14:31:07 outdoor activity without interfering with any minors or
14:31:11 anything else.
14:31:11 And again, I will reiterate that where we are in the
14:31:14 center was really ideal, because it's in an alleyway,
14:31:18 and it actually opens onto the dumpster.
14:31:22 And where we are in the center, it truly is insulated.
14:31:29 The outdoor is paramount to what we do.
14:31:31 >> I go by there every day.
14:31:33 Every day.
14:31:34 Sometimes five times a day.
14:31:36 And if you had food, that would be a different story
14:31:39 for your nonsmokers because you can't smoke where you
14:31:42 are serving food.
14:31:43 >>> That's correct.
14:31:44 That's not what we do.
14:31:51 But the outdoor again, it's paramount to what we do.
14:31:54 And I understand your point.
14:31:57 But, at the same time, I really don't see -- can you
14:32:01 give me a circumstance where that could would be an
14:32:05 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: You have kids who have nothing to
14:32:07 do walking around, and they are going to be over your
14:32:11 way, okay?
14:32:13 It's not that far -- your front door is right behind
14:32:19 >>> Not --
14:32:22 >> Well, there's a little retention pond there.
14:32:23 And then you have the haircutting place next door.
14:32:33 Is that a chocolate place?
14:32:35 >>> It was.
14:32:35 I know you know exactly where it is.
14:32:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Why don't you put that up so we can
14:32:45 all see it?
14:32:45 >> If you look at that side right between where the
14:32:53 pillar is and the back of the building is where there
14:32:55 will be a double door, and then an awning that will
14:32:58 come out over the top, and again it's insulated into
14:33:02 that point.
14:33:03 Now, I could be agreeable to maybe further insulating
14:33:07 that front so that kids could not see that unless they
14:33:12 walked all the way around to the back toward, into the
14:33:16 alleyway where the dumpster is, so that would be
14:33:19 buffered, if you will, from that.
14:33:21 But if you look down there --
14:33:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm thinking who wants to work by a
14:33:31 But, anyway.
14:33:32 >>> The Starbuck's is a pretty good ways from where we
14:33:36 are talking about. The Starbuck's is on the front of
14:33:38 the property which abuts the street, which Mr. Caetano
14:33:41 does point out correctly that I'm sure kids come there
14:33:45 from the movie theater and whatnot.
14:33:47 But this is actually another parcel, you know,
14:33:49 significantly, in my opinion, behind it.
14:33:52 And with the outdoor being confined in that alleyway,
14:33:55 as I said, I would definitely consider doing something
14:34:02 with vegetation or whatever to further buffer that.
14:34:05 But the outdoor portion is what we do is important, and
14:34:09 would be difficult for me to move forward without the
14:34:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: A question about the natural
14:34:18 preserve area behind you.
14:34:19 It looks like it pretty deep.
14:34:21 Do you have a ballpark of how deep it is?
14:34:25 100 feet?
14:34:26 200 feet of?
14:34:28 >>> A couple hundred yards.
14:34:30 It's vegetation through that.
14:34:33 I don't know if that's accurate.
14:34:35 But it's definitely buffered.
14:34:40 We have been looking in this area for probably three
14:34:42 and a half years.
14:34:43 And when we found this spot, we thought this would be
14:34:47 the perfect spot for us, because of the mitigating
14:34:51 factors, that we can be Buford and be away from kind of
14:34:54 everything that goes on.
14:34:56 And again, I would be agreeable to maybe further buffer
14:35:00 it with some vegetation, so that the front side of the
14:35:03 outdoor maybe isn't as visible.
14:35:08 But again, it's in an alleyway where a dumpster is.
14:35:11 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to close the public hearing.
14:35:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
14:35:17 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
14:35:17 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor say Aye.
14:35:21 Do you want to read that?
14:35:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'll move an ordinance approving a
14:35:24 special use permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales
14:35:27 large venue making lawful the sale of beverages
14:35:29 containing alcohol regard -- regardless of alcoholic
14:35:32 content beer or wine or liquor 4(COP) on premises and
14:35:38 in off premises on that certain lot, plot, tract of
14:35:42 land located at 17506 preserve walk lane, unit number
14:35:47 3, Tampa, Florida, as more particularly described in
14:35:50 section 2 hereof providing for repeal of all ordinances
14:35:53 in conflict, providing an effective date.
14:35:56 >> Second.
14:35:56 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
14:36:00 >>MARY MULHERN: Did you tad three conditions?
14:36:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: With the three conditions that our
14:36:04 staff outlined.
14:36:05 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor say Aye.
14:36:06 Opposed, Nay.
14:36:07 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Nay.
14:36:11 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Scott and Dingfelder
14:36:14 being absent and Caetano voting no.
14:36:16 Second reading of the ordinance Hillsborough held March
14:36:18 4th at 9:30 a.m.
14:36:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 86.
14:36:58 >>LaCHONE DOCK: The next item is V-10-69, unit 112,
14:37:08 Channel District.
14:37:09 Proposed use is for alcoholic beverage sales, small
14:37:12 venue, 2(COP), which allows for the sale of alcoholic
14:37:14 beverages for consumption on the premises and in sealed
14:37:18 containers for consumption off premises.
14:37:22 The proposed use is a bar and lounge.
14:37:25 The site is located on the ground floor of the mixed
14:37:28 use development, Grand Central, which contains 14
14:37:33 stories, 2,439 square feet.
14:37:38 There's no outdoor seating proposed. The total of 1026
14:37:44 spaces are required for the entire development and 1401
14:37:48 spaces have been provided.
14:37:57 This is the site located with Channelside Drive to the
14:38:00 east and Meridian to the west.
14:38:02 And this is the location of the site here on the
14:38:10 And this is a picture of the site.
14:38:18 That's the north, the west side of it.
14:38:23 That's a have you looking west on Madison street.
14:38:30 The development review committee has reviewed the
14:38:33 petition and finds the request consistent with
14:38:36 applicable City of Tampa land development regulations.
14:38:38 That concludes staff's presentation.
14:38:40 I'm available if you have any questions.
14:38:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just want to say in the history
14:38:44 of the world we have never had so many extra parking
14:38:47 spaces attached to a request.
14:38:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
14:38:52 >> Timothy H. Powell, president of TSP Companies. Our
14:39:00 address is P.O. Box 1016, Tampa Florida 33601. I'm the
14:39:06 spokesperson for the applicant Pour house at Grand
14:39:10 Central, owners for the commercial tenant space,
14:39:13 address as previously mentioned.
14:39:17 It will be located in the ground floor.
14:39:19 I'll go ahead and show a site plan.
14:39:26 It will show you agent clearer the shaded area in the
14:39:29 northwest corner of the eastern building of Grand
14:39:34 As previously mentioned the current zoning of the
14:39:36 property is CD 3 which was previously approved by the
14:39:39 city under Z 03-121.
14:39:42 The Grand Central mixed use development was designed to
14:39:45 accommodate retail commercial uses of the use and size
14:39:49 as being applied for, all requiring considerations of
14:39:52 standards specifically parking, refuse and service
14:39:56 areas, utilities and drainage facilities are
14:39:58 incorporated in the existing Grand Central development
14:40:00 as incorporated into the previously approved zoning and
14:40:05 has been noted specifically on the special use site
14:40:07 plan that is part of this application.
14:40:12 Based on the city staff review and this presentation, I
14:40:15 respectfully request City Council approval, and we are
14:40:18 here to answer any questions you may have.
14:40:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
14:40:24 would like to speak on item 86?
14:40:26 >> Move to close.
14:40:27 >> Second.
14:40:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to close.
14:40:29 All in favor say Aye.
14:40:30 Opposed, Nay.
14:40:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move an ordinance approving a
14:40:44 special use permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales,
14:40:47 small venue, making lawful the sale of beverages
14:40:49 containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight not more
14:40:53 than 14% by weight and wines regardless of alcoholic
14:40:57 content beer and wine 2(COP) for consumption on
14:41:00 premises and in sealed containers for consumption off
14:41:04 premises at or from that certain lot, plot, tract of
14:41:09 land located at 1208 East Kennedy Boulevard, unit 112,
14:41:13 Tampa, Florida, as more particularly described in
14:41:15 sections 2 hereof imposing certain conditions based
14:41:19 upon the location of the property, providing for repeal
14:41:21 of all ordinances, providing an effective date.
14:41:24 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
14:41:27 (Motion carried).
14:41:28 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder and Scott
14:41:29 being absent.
14:41:31 Second reading of the ordinance will be held March
14:41:34 4th at 9:30 a.m.
14:41:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just wanted to say it's great to
14:41:39 see new businesses move into the Channel District.
14:42:05 >>LaCHONE DOCK: Land Development Coordination.
14:42:07 And I have been sworn.
14:42:07 The next item on the agenda is petition number V-10836
14:42:12 for property located at 420 south Jefferson street, 807
14:42:16 Eunice Avenue, and Channelside Drive.
14:42:19 Property is currently zoned CBD2 central business
14:42:22 district for use as a restaurant.
14:42:23 The proposed special use is alcoholic beverage sales,
14:42:26 large venue, 4(COP), which allows for the sale of
14:42:30 alcoholic beverages regardless of alcoholic content for
14:42:33 consumption on the premises, in sealed containers for
14:42:36 consumption off premises.
14:42:39 According to the affidavit submitted the use is an
14:42:41 existing restaurant.
14:42:42 The site was previously approved for a 4(COP).
14:42:45 The special use request is to extend the existing
14:42:49 Marriott an additional 2,275 square feet.
14:42:53 The site contains 24,609 square feet.
14:42:57 The special use will contain 7,828 square feet
14:43:01 consisting of 3,280 square feet indoor, and 4,548
14:43:07 square feet outdoor.
14:43:09 The site is located within the central business
14:43:12 district and the use of restaurant does not require
14:43:15 However, 29 parking spaces everybody provided.
14:43:21 And I have an aerial of the location.
14:43:28 This is the site located here in yellow on Channelside
14:43:30 across from the forum boarded with Nebraska to the
14:43:33 east, service centers to the west of the site, and this
14:43:37 is the area in blue for the proposed sale.
14:43:42 And there's a picture of the site.
14:43:48 This is the western end.
14:43:50 This is the area with the proposed addition.
14:43:53 This is the existing structure and then the outdoor
14:44:00 This is another view of the west off of Jefferson.
14:44:08 That's another view, the south end of it.
14:44:10 And that's the east side of the site.
14:44:15 From Nebraska.
14:44:17 And that's another view of the entrance into the site.
14:44:21 One of the entrances off Nebraska.
14:44:23 The development review committee has reviewed the
14:44:27 petition and finds it inconsistent with applicable City
14:44:29 of Tampa land development regulations.
14:44:32 However, if the requested changes are made between
14:44:34 first and second reading the development review
14:44:36 committee will amend its determination and find the
14:44:39 petition with the exception of solid waste whose
14:44:42 findings are related to maneuvering in the royalty.
14:44:45 Council, I also handed out a site plan revision sheet.
14:44:48 It's entitled V-10-83 site plan revision sheet,
14:44:53 February 18, 2010, today's date on the sheet.
14:44:55 It has been provided to the petitioner.
14:44:57 The petitioner agrees to make the requested changes
14:44:59 between first and second reading.
14:45:02 And that concludes staff's presentation.
14:45:04 I'm available if you have any questions.
14:45:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: When an a existing business like
14:45:12 this comes in for an expansion, it doesn't appear that
14:45:16 this triggered any landscaping requirements.
14:45:24 Do landscaping requirements ever get triggered, or does
14:45:28 it have to be a greater percentage of investment or
14:45:30 >>LaCHONE DOCK: Land development coordination.
14:45:34 In order for landscape to be reviewed in a special 2
14:45:38 use it is for new construction.
14:45:41 If it is an existing site it is reviewed for solid
14:45:44 waste and transportation.
14:45:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
14:45:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
14:45:47 >> Dixie liberty.
14:45:57 I'm the representative for Channelside.
14:45:59 I'm asking your approval to go ahead and put the deck
14:46:02 on the west side of the building.
14:46:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Will you repeat that?
14:46:09 Put what?
14:46:10 >> The deck.
14:46:11 The patio, the deck on the west side of the building.
14:46:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
14:46:20 would like to speak on item 87?
14:46:28 >> Good afternoon.
14:46:29 Bob McDonaugh, economic development, City of Tampa.
14:46:33 The only concern that I have is that we have begun to
14:46:38 receive noise complaints in that neighborhood, and
14:46:40 having large outdoor deck with 4(COP) license which is
14:46:44 a allowed to remain open until 3:00 in the morning does
14:46:47 cause some concern.
14:46:48 I spoke with the representative, and she informed me
14:46:52 that currently the music is played inside.
14:46:54 They have an inside Bandstand so the music is inside.
14:46:59 I would ask council to consider their request about
14:47:02 having a large outdoor deck open till 3:00 in the
14:47:06 morning, about perhaps limiting live music to the
14:47:09 inside of the building, or limiting it till 12:00 or
14:47:13 something like that.
14:47:14 It could save us trouble in the long-term.
14:47:16 >> Mr. McDonaugh is correct.
14:47:29 We have received numerous complaints from the
14:47:32 If you have been watching the news on television,
14:47:36 radio, newspapers and so forth, regarding properties, I
14:47:39 believe in concert with the Port Authority, they are
14:47:41 leased to the Channelside.
14:47:43 They are not paying the rent, as I recall.
14:47:48 All those things are paramount in the development of
14:47:50 some bigger picture.
14:47:53 Would you be willing to make some type of arrangements
14:47:57 for music and the loudness of those, you know, band
14:48:05 that is going to play there, how far the decibels go
14:48:08 and what the decibel range is going to be and so forth
14:48:10 and so on?
14:48:12 You are going to have to speak closer to the mike.
14:48:15 I lost my hair and I lost my hearing.
14:48:18 >> The gentleman that took over the building, he has
14:48:20 been having bands in there.
14:48:22 And it's not a very large band.
14:48:25 And as far as I know, Tampa police haven't had any
14:48:28 problems with anything like that.
14:48:32 It has not been brought to my attention, but I'm quite
14:48:37 sure that I can ask the owner of the property if that
14:48:42 would be okay if we put some times on there.
14:48:46 >> I agree with that.
14:48:48 I hope you can do that.
14:48:49 The outside venue is fine.
14:48:51 But the outside venue with music would be disastrous.
14:48:54 >> He's not putting --
14:48:56 >> I understand that.
14:48:57 That's what we are saying now but tomorrow he or she
14:48:59 may sell and somebody else may have a different idea
14:49:01 if, the zoning doesn't go with the owner, it goes with
14:49:06 the building for alcohol.
14:49:07 I hope you can understand that I'm not trying to be
14:49:09 harmful in any way.
14:49:10 I'm trying to be proactive.
14:49:12 But, at the same time, protection for those that live
14:49:15 near and around the building.
14:49:17 >> I understand that.
14:49:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So specifically, what we would like
14:49:21 is a commitment that if there is any outdoor music that
14:49:25 is over -- that it over at midnight, and that there's
14:49:29 in a outdoor amplifiers or loud speakers or anything
14:49:34 after mid night.
14:49:35 In other words, after midnight it's quiet on the deck.
14:49:38 >>> Okay.
14:49:42 >> And a question for legal.
14:49:44 Can you all write that onto the understanding of this
14:49:49 >>> That would make a site plan change between first
14:49:52 and second reading so we are trying to work out the
14:49:55 exact language.
14:49:56 >>GWEN MILLER: There would not be any music on the
14:49:58 deck, it would?
14:49:59 >> There could be music but required by midnight.
14:50:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want the record be that the
14:50:07 petitioner requested this.
14:50:08 >>> I'm just trying to go along with you.
14:50:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, I may have to go a along
14:50:15 against you then.
14:50:16 >>> Well, I can understand that they are having music
14:50:18 on the inside.
14:50:19 If we can have like a speaker or something like that up
14:50:21 until midnight, you know,.
14:50:25 They are not there seven days a week playing music.
14:50:28 I believe he's only there one day a week.
14:50:31IE MIRANDA: I understand that and I appreciate that but as
14:50:33 I stated earlier you and your owners may have the right
14:50:36 intent, but something happens, and somebody else finds
14:50:39 it, and they want to make a quick turnover, and then
14:50:42 everything rocks.
14:50:46 Not that I'm against rock music.
14:50:48 I don't want to get letters.
14:50:49 So we can go ahead and actually say that we can go
14:50:52 ahead and have music outside up until midnight.
14:50:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: An this will be worked out between
14:51:02 first and second reading.
14:51:04 >>> You can give the applicant an opportunity to speak
14:51:12 to her Clint because once it's done, it's going to be
14:51:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.
14:51:17 Can we hold this, Madam Chair, to have that opportunity
14:51:19 to speak?
14:51:21 Thank you very much.
14:51:21 >>GWEN MILLER: We will go to number 88 while we are
14:51:55 >>LaCHONE DOCK: Land Development Coordination.
14:51:57 And I have been sworn.
14:51:58 The next item on the agenda is petition number V-10-84
14:52:02 for the property located at 7201 North Boulevard.
14:52:07 I would like to point out on the staff report the date
14:52:09 of the site plan is listed as July 7, 2010, but the
14:52:13 date should be January 7th, 2010.
14:52:16 The current zoning of the property is PD planned
14:52:19 development for zoological park.
14:52:21 The proposed special use is for alcoholic beverage
14:52:23 sales, large venue, 4(COP-X), which allows for the sale
14:52:26 of beverages regardless of alcoholic content for
14:52:29 consumption on premises only.
14:52:31 The site contains 60.6 acres and has a currents
14:52:35 4(COP-X) designation which contains 24.3 acres.
14:52:40 Total area under this request contains 60.6 acres of
14:52:44 which the petitioner has imposed conditions to limit
14:52:46 the sale of alcoholic beverages in conjunction with the
14:52:49 use of a zoo.
14:52:51 In addition, the petitioner proposes to maintain the
14:52:53 current condition of no sales after 1 a.m.
14:52:59 And I have an aerial of the site.
14:53:05 This is the site bordered in yellow. Sligh is the
14:53:12 southern boundary.
14:53:15 And it's boarded with North Boulevard along the east.
14:53:21 There is a picture of the site.
14:53:30 That's from Sligh.
14:53:33 Another view of the site on Sligh.
14:53:40 North Boulevard.
14:53:50 Further north.
14:53:51 And another view.
14:53:56 The development review committee has reviewed the
14:53:59 petition and finds the request consistent with
14:54:01 applicable City of Tampa land development regulations.
14:54:04 That concludes staff's presentation.
14:54:05 I'm available if you have any questions.
14:54:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
14:54:09 >>MARY MULHERN: She can answer.
14:54:19 I just want to know if it's the entire yellow border of
14:54:22 the property that you are asking for.
14:54:29 >>LaCHONE DOCK: Land Development Coordination.
14:54:31 And, no it is not the entire border.
14:54:34 There is a border that is in blue.
14:54:36 >>MARY MULHERN: Oh, the blue.
14:54:37 >> That is for the alcoholic beverage sales zoning.
14:54:41 >> So is it the little part?
14:54:43 >> The bigger part out here.
14:54:46 Actually this area.
14:54:48 >> It's most of the area, the blue area.
14:54:52 >>LaCHONE DOCK: This is not included.
14:54:56 And that's not included.
14:54:57 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
14:55:00 You are not going to let the animals drink.
14:55:10 >> Grace Yang, Gray Robinson law firm, 201 North
14:55:16 Franklin Street, suite 2200 Tampa, Florida.
14:55:19 I have been sworn.
14:55:20 It's my pleasure this afternoon to appear on behalf of
14:55:22 the Lowry Park Zoo.
14:55:25 With me in the audience is Craig Pugh, the acting CEO
14:55:28 of the zoo and David Zimmerman the executive
14:55:34 vice-president and chief operating officer of the zoo.
14:55:37 As Ms. Dock has made in the presentation, the zoo has
14:55:41 an existing 4(COP-X) wet zoning that was approved back
14:55:46 in 1995, and that was only for about 20 acres.
14:55:50 The zoo has expanded since 1995 in acreage, and so we
14:55:54 are trying to have this new request approved to expand
14:55:58 that acreage, keep the 4(COP-X) use and expand the area
14:56:04 to cover this new area as the zoo has grown over the
14:56:10 We have met with the local neighborhood association.
14:56:14 I'm pleased to report that the neighborhood association
14:56:16 is in support of this petition, and you should have a
14:56:19 copy of the letter of support in your agenda packet.
14:56:25 You should also have in your agenda packet a letter
14:56:28 that I filed last week trying to give you some
14:56:30 additional background about this particular property.
14:56:33 The zoo was granted by special act in the Florida
14:56:40 legislature a special liquor license in 1994 to be able
14:56:43 to have a liquor license placed at the zoo.
14:56:47 The special act clearly states that it must be tied to
14:56:50 different special events at the zoo, and so we are
14:56:53 continuing to operate and abide by that special act.
14:56:58 As Ms. Dock also mentioned we are agreeing to some
14:57:01 notes to tie it to a 1 a.m. sale closing for alcohol,
14:57:07 and the alcohol must be incidental to the zoological
14:57:11 park, which is operated by the Lowry Park zoological
14:57:16 society, a 501(c)3 original.
14:57:19 The ability to expand the acreage and to have this
14:57:21 4(COP-X) would allow the zoo to continue to generate
14:57:24 rental revenues, catering and food revenues to support
14:57:28 the overall operation of the zoo.
14:57:34 In my site plan, we had added a note to say that we
14:57:38 were going to tie the use back to the state law which
14:57:43 is the special act 94-464.
14:57:47 However, after some discussions with Ms. Kert from the
14:57:50 city attorney's office today, she is recommending that
14:57:53 we remove that note from the site plan.
14:57:58 We will have to continue to abide by the special act in
14:58:03 Florida, but to remove that particular note.
14:58:05 And if that is council's pleasure and direction, we
14:58:07 would appreciate your approval of the request.
14:58:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Pleasure of council members?
14:58:14 Is there anyone in the public that would like to speak
14:58:16 on item 88?
14:58:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
14:58:21 >> Second.
14:58:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to close.
14:58:25 All in favor say Aye.
14:58:26 Opposed, Nay.
14:58:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move an ordinance repealing
14:58:36 ordinance 95-31 approving a special use permit S-2 for
14:58:40 alcoholic beverage sales, large venue, making lawful
14:58:43 the sale of beverages regardless of alcoholic content,
14:58:45 beer wind wine and liquor 4(COP-X) for consumption on
14:58:49 premises only at or from that certain lot, plot or
14:58:53 tract of land located at 7201 North Boulevard, Tampa,
14:58:57 Florida, as more particularly described in section 2
14:59:00 therefore, providing for repeal of all ordinances, an
14:59:05 conflict providing an effective date.
14:59:06 >> We have a motion and second.
14:59:08 >> Rebecca Kert, legal, with a clarification that they
14:59:12 will remove the note --
14:59:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Right.
14:59:17 Go back to the conditional one.
14:59:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
14:59:22 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder and Scott
14:59:26 being absent.
14:59:27 Second reading of the ordinance will be held March
14:59:30 4th at 9:30 a.m.
14:59:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 89.
15:00:15 >>LaCHONE DOCK: Land Development Coordination P.I have
15:00:16 been sworn.
15:00:16 The next item is the property located at 223 South
15:00:19 Howard Avenue.
15:00:20 The property is currently zoned CG commercial general.
15:00:23 The proposed special use is for alcoholic beverage
15:00:25 sales, small venue, 4(COP-R), which allows for the sale
15:00:29 of beverages regardless of alcoholic content for
15:00:32 consumption on the premises only.
15:00:34 According to the application, the existing use is a
15:00:37 The total area under this request is 1,681 square feet.
15:00:42 This request includes 1,664 square feet indoor area, 17
15:00:46 square feet outdoor area, parking required is 36
15:00:53 It should be corrected on the staff report, 36 spaces
15:00:55 required instead of 20 and 10 spaces are being
15:00:59 A waiver has been requested.
15:01:03 And I have an aerial of the site.
15:01:08 And that's this site located in yellow.
15:01:13 Boarded with plant street to the south, Howard Avenue
15:01:16 would be the site, Moody Avenue the west, and the area
15:01:20 in blue is the small area where they are requesting on
15:01:26 the corner.
15:01:27 This is a picture of the site on Howard and Platt
15:01:30 looking northwest.
15:01:33 Another view of the site.
15:01:40 This is the west side of the site.
15:01:43 Another view of the site.
15:01:47 And this is the north end of the site.
15:01:49 And that's the parking.
15:01:53 The development review committee has reviewed the
15:01:55 petition and finds it inconsistent with applicable City
15:01:57 of Tampa land development regulations.
15:02:00 However, if the requested changes are made between
15:02:02 first and second reading, the development review
15:02:04 committee will amend the determination and find the
15:02:07 petition consistent with the exception of solid waste.
15:02:16 A revision sheet, site plan revision sheet dated
15:02:20 February 18th, 2010, and it has been provided to
15:02:23 the petitioner, and these are changes requested to be
15:02:26 made to the plan between first and second reading.
15:02:29 And that concludes staff's presentation.
15:02:31 I'm available if you have any questions.
15:02:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm reading this revision sheet you
15:02:40 provided us.
15:02:40 And it says that you are asking for a waiver of
15:02:44 reduction in parking from 36 to 10 spaces, and it says
15:02:50 that that's a 28% reduction.
15:02:53 That would be a several hundred percent reduction.
15:03:03 I'll bet you can figure this out.
15:03:05 From 36 to 10 is more than a 28% reduction.
15:03:15 So how do you not object to that dramatic a decrease?
15:03:25 >>LaCHONE DOCK: The site is this currently.
15:03:30 So it's not new development.
15:03:31 The site does exist.
15:03:33 And the petitioner is recognizing that requirement of
15:03:36 the 36 parking space was the waiver.
15:03:39 So transportation is recognizing the waiver.
15:03:45 It recognizes the shortage of the parking on the site.
15:03:47 >>GWEN MILLER: How many do they have?
15:03:53 Is it ten parking spaces?
15:03:55 >>LaCHONE DOCK: Ten parking spaces war they have now
15:03:58 that are valid parking spaces per code.
15:04:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
15:04:02 I knew that map was wrong.
15:04:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Do they have parking somewhere else?
15:04:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: In other words, this is a
15:04:13 It more than 28%.
15:04:15 It's 64%?
15:04:17 >>LaCHONE DOCK: Yes.
15:04:24N THORNTON: Transportation.
15:04:25 It was a typo. It's a 72% reduction.
15:04:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's right!
15:04:30 Okay, thank you.
15:04:34 I knew it was more than 28.
15:04:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner.
15:04:42 >> Tom Ortiz. 223 S. Howard Avenue.
15:04:45 With regards to the parking, this was an existing
15:04:48 It was Strings, has been wet zoned two different
15:04:52 The last wet zoning was in '06 when it was a 2(COP-R)
15:04:56 and it was the same site plan and the same square
15:04:58 footage so there was no increase in the square footage
15:05:01 of the parcel or the wet zoning.
15:05:03 There is a request to change the wet zoning from a
15:05:06 2(COP-R) to a 4(COP-R), and our request change is
15:05:11 during the week there was misinformation given to the
15:05:16 petitioner at the time, and he requested 8:00 closing
15:05:19 from Sunday -- actually closed all day on Sunday,
15:05:22 Monday through Thursday, 8 p.m., and 1 a.m. on the
15:05:25 weekend, and unfortunately he was unable to achieve his
15:05:28 sales goals and closed.
15:05:31 So we are asking for 11:00 closing during the week
15:05:34 Sunday through Thursday and 1 a.m. on the weekends.
15:05:38 In addition to that, we do have a number of off-site
15:05:43 parking availabilities to us.
15:05:45 We own a bunch of -- a number of different restaurants
15:05:48 and bars in the area.
15:05:50 Currently, we have over 972 parking spaces that we
15:05:54 lease, own or operate in the area.
15:05:56 And the last, all the parking spaces that we had, and
15:06:07 at that time we had we have parking that we lease all
15:06:12 the way from CVS and block bust ter all the way through
15:06:15 to Kennedy Boulevard.
15:06:20 We have assistance
15:06:45 I gave you the history of the site.
15:06:47 It was zoned as a restaurant.
15:06:49 Actually since 04 that it's been a restaurant.
15:06:51 So there was no increases in square footage.
15:06:55 To date.
15:06:56 There was some concern with the outside parking, or
15:07:04 If you look at the site plan, what has happened is that
15:07:06 the wet zoned surveyor, the corner doorway is cut back
15:07:14 at the property line so if you take the corner Darway
15:07:17 that's the 17 feet that is outside that is being
15:07:19 included in the wet zoning.
15:07:20 And we have no problem with removing that in between
15:07:23 the first and second reading and bringing it back to
15:07:25 the actual doorway itself.
15:07:27 And then there would be no outside seating what -- no
15:07:30 outside area being wet zoned at all we plan on any
15:07:38 outside application or sound or anything.
15:07:46 I would like to introduce to you Tony Parker, if you
15:07:56 want to come up here.
15:07:57 >> My name is Tony Balank, third generation born and
15:08:09 raised in Tampa.
15:08:10 My grandfather owned and operate add barbershop on the
15:08:12 adjacent corner from the restaurant location for about
15:08:14 30 years.
15:08:16 It's been a life-long childhood dream of mine to open
15:08:19 my own restaurant and operate as a chef.
15:08:22 I graduated from the Florida culinary institute in West
15:08:24 Palm Beach.
15:08:25 For the past ten years working with Roys restaurant
15:08:28 doing fine dining, and broken off to do my own thing.
15:08:33 The reason we need the zoning change is we need to be
15:08:36 competitive and able to -- cocktails for our guests.
15:08:44 I have been in the restaurant business for over 15
15:08:46 years, I have seen a lot of things change.
15:08:49 The restaurants with full liquor have a better bottom
15:08:51 line and are more successful.
15:08:54 After working for ten years I have a great
15:08:56 understanding of the importance our goal is to do over
15:09:10 50% of foot sale.
15:09:11 Our goal, because we want to be a restaurant that
15:09:14 serves alcohol, not a bar that serve it food.
15:09:16 I really feel that in that area there's enough bars and
15:09:19 night clubs already.
15:09:20 And I want to add to the great restaurants that are
15:09:22 down in that area.
15:09:28 There was a request from the neighbors regarding three
15:09:36 concerns brought to our attention.
15:09:38 And one was patron noise in the parking lot.
15:09:41 Of what we have done to address that concern is that we
15:09:43 are going to have an attendant work the parking lot, to
15:09:47 park our vehicles and to curb any type of noise that
15:09:50 may come from our patrons, if there be any.
15:09:53 In addition to that, there was a question with regards
15:09:56 to litter in the parking lot or anything of that
15:09:59 We will have our cleaning team police the adjacent
15:10:02 properties as well as our properties themselves.
15:10:05 And then odor from the dumpster was a concern and we
15:10:08 have agreed to have the dumpster basically contracted
15:10:12 to be pulled every single day, which the city pulls six
15:10:17 days a week, a six-day operation.
15:10:19 So we have tried to address any concerns that have been
15:10:21 brought forth to our attention thus far and we are
15:10:23 willing to continue to address any concerns that
15:10:26 council or the neighbors may have.
15:10:28 And we are restricted by the time limit as requested by
15:10:31 council at previous hearings to 11 p.m. during the week
15:10:34 and 1 a.m. on the weekends.
15:10:36 And here is a site plan of the restaurant itself, the
15:10:43 You can see that the bar area, if my math is correct,
15:10:48 less than -- you can see the bar area here which is a
15:10:54 total of 130 square feet.
15:10:57 The restaurant itself is 1600 square feet.
15:10:59 So it's less than 8% of the overall restaurant.
15:11:02 It's more of a glorified service bar than it is an
15:11:05 actual hang-out bar.
15:11:20 There's a gentleman right behind us that's
15:11:21 catter-corner in the blue house.
15:11:23 He signed the petition as well as the neighbors to the
15:11:25 left, adjacent to the parking lot, which is an
15:11:29 apartment complex.
15:11:31 They are in support as well with.
15:11:35 I would like to submit these as soon as possible.
15:11:40 Does council have any questions?
15:11:47 SAUL-SENA: On the petition it talks about 17 outdoor --
15:11:51 there's an outdoor area?
15:11:53 >>> No, ma'am, I apologize.
15:11:54 That's 17 square feet.
15:11:56 You can see it on the plan here.
15:11:58 You see how the doorway is cut back.
15:12:00 >> That's it?
15:12:02 >> Actually we are willing to remove that if necessary
15:12:05 or put it in writing that we will not have any outdoor
15:12:07 seating or any outdoor sound.
15:12:09 What happened is that the surveyor took the property
15:12:11 line and squared it.
15:12:13 And did not take into account because the door was cut
15:12:16 It's actually 17 square feet.
15:12:17 >> Did you have a chance to see a letter from Toni.
15:12:23 >> They voted in favor of the wet zoning.
15:12:36 Now there were some neighbors who were opposed to it.
15:12:39 We only got one e-mail of the neighbor, and she's here
15:12:43 today, and we addressed those three concerns that I
15:12:47 listed to you.
15:12:48 But on the than that, we have not heard anything on the
15:12:50 than the general concerns of no more wet zonings in the
15:12:54 neighborhood or too many other customers or anything of
15:12:57 that nature.
15:12:57 >> I will ask our attorney to make a copy.
15:13:02 But this is very specifically talking about -- closing
15:13:10 >>GWEN MILLER: That concludes it?
15:13:14 >>> Yes, ma'am, unless you have other questions.
15:13:15 >> Is there anyone in the public that wants to speak on
15:13:18 item 89?
15:13:31 >> Walter Crumbley.
15:13:33 I'm the president of Courier City Oscawana homeowners
15:13:41 We did have a vote 10-6 in favor of this proposal.
15:13:52 >> Next speaker?
15:13:52 >> Good afternoon.
15:13:59 My name is Greg Root. I live at 212 South Moody
15:14:03 My address is Moody Avenue the address is actually
15:14:12 located between moody and Platt.
15:14:14 I'm actually diagonally across from the property,
15:14:17 diagonally across from the dumpster.
15:14:20 I sent an e-mail to each of you the on the morning
15:14:24 outlining my primary objections and concerns.
15:14:27 I hope everybody received that, had an opportunity to
15:14:30 look at it.
15:14:31 I did get a couple of e-mail responses back from
15:14:33 several of the administrative aides indicating that
15:14:36 they had received it, but not from all of them.
15:14:43 The presentation that was made at the neighborhood
15:14:45 association meeting also indicated that the liquor
15:14:48 sales would start at 7:00 in the morning, would be
15:14:52 7 a.m. to 11 p.m.
15:14:54 Sunday through Thursday.
15:14:57 7 a.m. till 1 a.m.
15:14:59 On Friday and Saturday.
15:15:02 And I'm very concerned about the potential for noise
15:15:05 problem, potential for unruly patrons at the end of the
15:15:11 day, concerned about speeding up and down the alley,
15:15:13 people leaving the establishment, concerned about noise
15:15:17 with trash being thrown out, especially bottles in the
15:15:20 dumpster towards the end of the night, after closing.
15:15:24 It was my understanding that there were some other
15:15:27 waivers that were being requested in addition to the
15:15:30 parking lot waiver regarding minimum, which required
15:15:35 separations from other businesses selling alcohol,
15:15:43 versus the standard.
15:15:44 Minimum separation from residential land uses, 54.5
15:15:48 feet versus the current standard of 1,000.
15:15:50 And minimum separation from institutional uses, 460
15:15:56 versus the current standard of 1,000.
15:16:01 Those standards are in place for a reason.
15:16:04 Certain establishments, certain areas, sensitive land
15:16:10 use areas.
15:16:11 And I think if all these waivers were approved, it
15:16:18 would be a travesty.
15:16:20 As a matter of fact I don't think you would need to
15:16:22 have minimum separation standards anymore if you are
15:16:24 going to reduce them that far down.
15:16:28 And I happen to be one of the people that we feel that
15:16:31 we have enough of these establishments in the South
15:16:35 Tampa area.
15:16:37 At least 15 come to mind.
15:16:41 Drynk, Mangroves, MacDintons, Cheap, the Dubliner, the
15:16:46 Lodge, Port Kennedy, Hyde Park cafe, the Rack, 717
15:16:50 south, Bella's, and the Wine Exchange, just to name a
15:16:57 So I think South Howard, and I think Platt is pretty
15:16:59 much saturated already.
15:17:03 South Tampa is a residential area first and foremost.
15:17:07 Not an entertainment district.
15:17:08 Not an extension of Ybor.
15:17:10 And I would like to see it.
15:17:14 I strongly urge you to vote no on this petition.
15:17:17 Thank you for your time.
15:17:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker.
15:17:20 >>> Good afternoon.
15:17:28 I have not been sworn.
15:17:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Did anyone else come in that needs to
15:17:32 be sworn?
15:17:33 Would you please raise your right hand?
15:17:34 (Oath administered by Clerk)
15:17:35 My name is Linda Crumbley.
15:17:45 I live at 503 south Westland Avenue.
15:17:48 That is one street over from Howard Avenue.
15:17:51 And two blocks from this establishment.
15:18:00 I supposed it.
15:18:01 I did not vote to have a wet zone here.
15:18:03 I opposed because we have been trying since we moved
15:18:07 into this neighborhood to fill this neighborhood back
15:18:09 to a quality neighborhood.
15:18:12 I lived on Davis Island before.
15:18:14 I moved here.
15:18:15 We had made great strides in this neighborhood.
15:18:19 When I moved to my home on Westland, we had crack
15:18:25 houses still available out there.
15:18:29 They were houses that had been just not cared for.
15:18:33 We had done everything to try to bring this
15:18:36 neighborhood together as a real neighborhood.
15:18:43 The noise at nighttime is deafening.
15:18:47 The young people come in.
15:18:49 They are not all neighbors that go to these
15:18:55 They are bussed in.
15:18:56 They are coming in just droves.
15:18:58 The problem with it is that they are not courteous to
15:19:06 the homeowners.
15:19:07 We wake up in the morning.
15:19:08 We have plenty of trash in our yards.
15:19:09 We have assorted things.
15:19:13 They have broken down bushes and torn up your yard or
15:19:18 They just abuse the neighborhood when they are drunk.
15:19:21 I will tell you that in the last month, in the middle
15:19:25 of the night at 2:30 in the morning, my doorbell rings.
15:19:30 We go to the door, and there is a woman, a young woman
15:19:34 who is leaning against the door.
15:19:37 And we open the door, and she was completely drunk.
15:19:46 There was a young couple who had walked with her
15:19:49 because she said, I live here.
15:19:52 I said, she does not live here.
15:19:54 She didn't even know who those people were.
15:19:57 I'm asking you to please deny this.
15:19:58 I'm sure this young man can do a great job in a
15:20:02 restaurant, but we do not need any more hard liquor to
15:20:05 be sold.
15:20:06 A good restaurant can stand on its own with beer and
15:20:11 And I ask you to please deny this.
15:20:14 And this letter ... thank you, City Council.
15:20:27 I appreciate your time.
15:20:28 Thank you.
15:20:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Go ahead.
15:20:57 >> I'm Michael Yustick, 305 south Melville, and I have
15:21:04 been sworn in.
15:21:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can you speak a little louder,
15:21:06 >>> Yes.
15:21:07 Included in the information I handed you is a copy of
15:21:10 the letter that I dropped off yesterday.
15:21:12 I don't know if you got a chance to be read it but it
15:21:15 there for you.
15:21:16 As well as a listing of the bars and restaurants on
15:21:19 South Howard and a map of the area.
15:21:24 I have composed a listing of all the closing times of
15:21:29 all the bars and restaurants on South Howard.
15:21:33 And if we go from Bayshore, working our way northward
15:21:38 toward Platt Street, you will notice that with the
15:21:42 exception of bell A's, all these restaurants close by
15:21:51 midnight on Friday and Saturday.
15:21:53 It's not until we cross over onto Swann that things
15:21:56 become a little more active.
15:21:59 The three that are open till 4:00, the Jimmy John, the
15:22:04 pizza place, and the pita pit.
15:22:08 As far as I know they do not have liquor licenses but
15:22:10 are serving food catering to the crowds.
15:22:14 Once you approach Azeele, that's when things become a
15:22:18 little more interesting and a little chaotic.
15:22:23 This listing showing that every place on here, with the
15:22:27 exception of Choi and Tijuana flats close at 3 a.m. on
15:22:36 Friday and Saturday, and some also close at 3 a.m.
15:22:39 during the week as well.
15:22:44 The map that I provided highlights these
15:22:47 establishments, and also the rezoning requests.
15:22:54 As you can see, there are ten bars, restaurants, within
15:23:00 a block and a half of the proposed site.
15:23:05 Anyone wishing to have a cocktail, all they have to do
15:23:08 is walk across the street in any one direction.
15:23:17 The problem I have with another bar, restaurant, is
15:23:19 that Howard Avenue and Platt Street has become the
15:23:23 party district.
15:23:23 We have drunks up and down Howard and back and forth on
15:23:28 Platt Street screaming and hollering all hours of the
15:23:32 I can tell you when it's 3:00 in the morning without
15:23:34 ever having to look at alarm clock, I cannot keep my
15:23:38 windows open any longer and I have to sleep with an air
15:23:42 purifier next to my bed in order to drown out the
15:23:46 This area already has a high concentration of
15:23:50 establishments that serve alcohol already.
15:23:52 I don't see where it's necessary to add yet another.
15:23:56 We have enough problems with the ones that exist now.
15:24:02 So I urge to you deny the rezoning request.
15:24:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
15:24:17 >> My name is Virginia Blanca.
15:24:24 My husband, it's not so much about -- waited tables for
15:24:29 a lot of years and you can get drunk off beer and wine
15:24:32 just as much as you can get drunk off liquor.
15:24:36 It's not trying to get people intoxicated.
15:24:39 He's serving more food than he is liquor which is part
15:24:41 of his -- I guess his license.
15:24:45 But his concept is the family plan.
15:24:51 Families can come in and eat.
15:24:52 I don't know if they give you a copy of the menu, and
15:24:54 actually don't think I have a copy of the menu, but all
15:24:57 of the food portions are based on children to FAMU --
15:25:03 family-style meals.
15:25:05 He's not trying to indicator any more drinking on that
15:25:08 I think when he saw the location he wasn't aware
15:25:10 that -- he had been looking for three or four month and
15:25:15 was actually looking in Tampa first, and he found this
15:25:17 location, and then right across diagonally opened up a
15:25:21 bar with a 3 a.m. license.
15:25:22 We are not looking to stay open that late.
15:25:24 The reason he wants the 1 a.m. license is in case
15:25:27 there's a special event, maybe a catered event for
15:25:29 parties, an anniversary, an council dinner, doesn't
15:25:32 want to kick people out at 11:00 during the weekends.
15:25:38 He would be closed on Mondays but it's pretty much
15:25:40 dinner hours.
15:25:41 The 7:00 is in case we do a luncheon special, maybe a
15:25:46 company breakfast or things that go on during the
15:25:48 A lot of people do brunches and lunches now as opposed
15:25:52 to dinner because it's less expensive and more
15:25:54 economical so that's where the 7:00 comes from.
15:25:57 The drunks that come from the Hyde Park cafe sit on the
15:26:01 corner and -- it's not going to be that kind of scene.
15:26:03 So I understand everyone's concerns about the noise.
15:26:08 But regardless of whether he has a liquor license or
15:26:11 beer and wine license, people that drink to get drunk
15:26:13 are going to get drunk.
15:26:14 And they are going to be early and that's just the way
15:26:17 they are.
15:26:18 I don't think it has anything to do with the
15:26:19 establishment or once the people leave, you can only do
15:26:23 so much to control them.
15:26:24 And everyone kind of their own individual.
15:26:26 And that's all I have to say.
15:26:27 Thank you.
15:26:27 >> Nicholas, 223 S. Howard. I am a partner in the
15:26:27 Brick restaurant. I'm also a chef. I worked with Tony
15:26:44 for quite a long time.
15:26:45 And I really want to address that I sympathize with the
15:26:49 people in the area, you know, the problems that they
15:26:51 have with the late night, the wild noises, litter and
15:26:56 Coming that area, we want to help that situation.
15:27:00 We want people to try to collaborate and make this a
15:27:02 better area we don't want just a good restaurant.
15:27:12 We want a great restaurant.
15:27:14 You know what I mean?
15:27:15 We want to get together with everybody and make it
15:27:18 We are not trying to enhance people getting drunk or
15:27:21 another place for them to get drink.
15:27:22 It's all about the food.
15:27:24 That's what we are about.
15:27:25 And that zoning will definitely help us be more
15:27:29 It definitely will.
15:27:32 That's pretty much what I have.
15:27:33 Thank you.
15:27:33 >> My name is Mike Gonzalez.
15:27:48 This is a restaurant that has a bar.
15:27:51 Not a bar that serves bar food.
15:27:54 And I hope that you approve it.
15:27:56 Thank you.
15:28:07 Just like you say, I have known Mr. Ortiz for a long
15:28:12 In fact I graduated from Jefferson.
15:28:14 He was a couple years behind me.
15:28:15 And everything he does has been first class.
15:28:17 What you have here before you is a situation where you
15:28:20 have an existing building that was previously wet
15:28:23 And whether we leave that as an eyesore or we let them
15:28:27 enhance that in an area that where the times are
15:28:32 changeable as maybe not 1:00 or 12:00, and maybe the
15:28:35 7 a.m., just in case -- for the ability to sell liquor
15:28:41 may be a concern.
15:28:42 Other than that, we have a restaurant here with a small
15:28:44 You have an existing eyesore on Howard.
15:28:47 And you have a legitimate husband and wife that are
15:28:50 going to work this restaurant and do everything they
15:28:52 can to make it first-class in the area.
15:28:55 I respectfully request that you approve this request.
15:28:57 God bless you.
15:28:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anybody else like to speak?
15:29:00 >> My name is Richard champion.
15:29:07 I own the Irish public located very close to actually
15:29:13 within eyesight of my back door.
15:29:17 The Irish pub serves beer, wine and food.
15:29:21 We everybody there nine years now and since we have
15:29:23 been open this council has forced us into a position
15:29:27 where we are competing with $10 all you can drink on a
15:29:31 Friday, college girls drink free 10 p.m. to 1 a.m.
15:29:36 Tuesday and Thursday, in Hyde Park cafe.
15:29:39 Kennedy, from 12 a.m. to 1 a.m. on Thursday.
15:29:45 It's impossible for me to compete in this market.
15:29:48 Part of the zoning requires that you basically
15:29:52 disregard the thousand foot rule in favor of the
15:29:55 60-foot rule.
15:29:58 Possibly it's too late as it is.
15:30:00 If you add more to this mix that's already something
15:30:05 akin to bourbon street down there on the weekends, the
15:30:09 residents, I feel for them, the business owners like
15:30:12 myself who have been there for many years, and are
15:30:14 being forced out because liquor sales and -- you can't
15:30:19 sell food when your neighbors are selling all you can
15:30:23 drink for ten dollars.
15:30:25 As much as this husband and wife team might have the
15:30:27 greatest intentions, I would ask you to think of the
15:30:30 tavern which started off as an Italian restaurant and
15:30:34 had great intentions and is now, you know, it's now a
15:30:39 There is nothing to stop this concept being turned into
15:30:44 basically a mirror image of that,.
15:30:53 The residents in the area, I feel for them.
15:30:55 I sympathize with them.
15:30:56 I talked to Mr. Crumbley.
15:30:58 And other people down there.
15:30:59 And apologized for the fact that we are in this
15:31:03 And I believe this council has created this down there.
15:31:07 And ultimately, I have a $12,000 a month rent to pay,
15:31:14 and I have got to pay it or go under.
15:31:16 So we are forced to stray away from our original
15:31:21 concept which is basically a good local family pub, and
15:31:24 now we have to compete with everybody selling liquor
15:31:27 next door.
15:31:27 College kids come in for ten dollars. Drinking.
15:31:30 Getting turned out, coming into our establishment,
15:31:30 breaking up our furniture, punching holes in our walls.
15:31:30 We have to hire extra security just to keep those out.
15:31:47 You add more liquor you will increase the problem.
15:31:49 >> Petitioner?
15:31:49 >> If I may address a couple of the concerns.
15:31:53 First, and foremost, we have sat in every neighborhood
15:31:58 meeting since we moved in.
15:32:00 We have requested multiple times to set up a committee
15:32:02 with the neighborhoods, where the businesses and the
15:32:04 neighbors would sit down on a month to month basis and
15:32:07 address the concerns of the neighborhoods.
15:32:09 Till this day, no one has showed up and given us that
15:32:12 We are forced to sit in a neighborhood meeting only
15:32:16 another business neighborhood relationship to be
15:32:20 So we definitely appreciate the concerns and we have
15:32:22 nothing but the intentions to develop that neighborhood
15:32:25 to like Mrs. Crumbly said to a working neighborhood for
15:32:30 It is a business/residential neighborhood.
15:32:33 That's what the development is.
15:32:35 This particular location has been a restaurant since
15:32:39 It's not something that we are asking for a new zoning
15:32:41 or a new request.
15:32:43 It was licensed as a 2(COP-R).
15:32:45 We are asking for a 4(COP-R).
15:32:47 With regards to the 7 a.m., you know, I apologize, but
15:32:51 I'm disappointed that they would not mention we were
15:33:02 requested to put the exact hours we were open.
15:33:04 Tony wanted to do breakfast.
15:33:05 So you are only allowed to operate what is stated on
15:33:08 the wet zone survey.
15:33:11 We put down 7 a.m. we would like to open for breakfast
15:33:14 at some time, not serve liquor, but we had to write
15:33:17 down that we be open till 7 a.m.
15:33:19 And we are open till 7 a.m. for breakfast.
15:33:21 To take that out of context and say we were going to
15:33:24 open at 7 and start serving liquor I think is not
15:33:27 proper, and I apologize.
15:33:28 I'm disappointed that that was taken that way.
15:33:31 In addition to the bottles, we were told that we could
15:33:33 go ahead and do a recycling bin which would curb any
15:33:38 cost with us dumping bottles late night.
15:33:40 We were happy to do that.
15:33:42 In addition to addressing the parking and the noise and
15:33:44 so forth, again, we need the neighbors to be willing to
15:33:48 sit down and work with us on a regular basis and
15:33:50 address those problems and let's find a common way that
15:33:52 we are going to work together.
15:33:56 But addressing those concerns, those are all places,
15:33:58 outdoor patio areas.
15:34:00 We have them.
15:34:01 This is an indoor restaurant only.
15:34:03 There's no outdoor seating whatsoever, and none
15:34:06 intended to be. So we don't feel we are going to have
15:34:08 those issues.
15:34:09 Plus we are closing two hours before everyone else.
15:34:11 And on the weekdays, four hours before, or five hours
15:34:16 before everybody else.
15:34:16 With regards to the time zones that Michael had brought
15:34:20 forth, again, I apologize.
15:34:22 I am not going to through go through each one.
15:34:24 But what he listed were the last seating times of a
15:34:26 number of these restaurant.
15:34:28 I'll give you two in specific.
15:34:29 Bern's and SideBern's.
15:34:31 Their last seating times are 11:00.
15:34:34 But I called specific Bern's and said, what time do you
15:34:39 And they said we'll stay open till 3 a.m. if a patron
15:34:42 wants to stay open and they are buying food and
15:34:45 So yes, their seat times are eleven or 12 but that's
15:34:49 not when they lock the door doors.
15:34:51 That's the last time they see people.
15:34:52 We would like to have our last seating between 11 and
15:34:55 12 and close by 1.
15:34:56 Last call 12:30.
15:34:58 So we are not out of concept with the restaurants in
15:35:01 the neighborhood.
15:35:01 In fact we are very much a part of that.
15:35:14 I can send you a quote from Walter Crumbley who
15:35:17 requested why I had not done anything with regards to
15:35:20 noise coming from the Governor, and what I am going to
15:35:23 do about it.
15:35:23 I'm no longer the land Lord of the governor.
15:35:29 The governor has a Wednesday night all you can drink.
15:35:32 So again, let stay true to what the issues are,
15:35:36 specifically viable restaurant space, 1600 square feet,
15:35:39 it's going to close at 11 during the week, it's going
15:35:42 to close at 1 a.m. on the weekends, it is a 51-49.
15:35:48 There is no outside noise whatsoever.
15:35:50 I can walk any person who wishes to take the walk with
15:35:53 me, that I am 982 park spots in the neighborhood.
15:35:58 I think we have a addressed everything we can and still
15:36:00 willing to go the extra mile.
15:36:01 Anything that we can do to support the neighbors, we
15:36:03 are there for.
15:36:04 But to shut everybody down because there's some bad
15:36:08 apples in the neighborhood is unfair to those of us who
15:36:10 get around for 14-plus years.
15:36:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question.
15:36:16 You mentioned this great number of parking spaces.
15:36:19 But those obviously aren't all for the petition before
15:36:22 What are the other establishments that are served by
15:36:25 those parking spaces?
15:36:27 >>> We actually -- all the establishments in the
15:36:31 neighborhood, but we ours ohs have four.
15:36:34 We have Hyde Park cafe, the Kennedy, and then the BRIC.
15:36:39 So all four restaurants would be the ones that have the
15:36:42 sole rights to those.
15:36:44 But we actually allow everyone to park in those parking
15:36:50 Again for the neighborhood.
15:36:51 If I was to tell you that I was the premiere business
15:36:53 person in the neighborhood who led the charge on
15:36:56 permanent parking alongside with the neighborhood
15:37:00 association, because I agree there is a huge problem in
15:37:02 the neighborhood with parking in the neighborhood.
15:37:03 How to curb that?
15:37:04 Put the permits in place, force everybody out and force
15:37:08 the parking in the parking lot that we have been
15:37:10 renting and leasing for five or six years.
15:37:12 And that was something we brought forth in '06.
15:37:15 So we are very pro neighborhood.
15:37:18 This isn't something we are trying to come in and just
15:37:20 take over.
15:37:20 We want to work with the neighbors.
15:37:22 I can't help but some of the other businesses are
15:37:25 choosing not to.
15:37:26 (Bell sounds).
15:37:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Other questions by council members?
15:37:34 Motion and second to close.
15:37:35 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
15:37:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, I don't know where this is
15:37:43 going, Madam Chair.
15:37:45 I can say that Mr. Blanko hasn't done anything.
15:37:49 I understand the concerns of both sides here.
15:37:51 I understand the individuals who are coming here in
15:37:54 good faith.
15:37:55 And I would be in their same shoes saying that I can't
15:37:59 sleep but two and a half hours Friday night when I have
15:38:02 to get up for Saturday, and about the drunks.
15:38:05 And about the lady knocking on the door.
15:38:08 There's so many things that are going there.
15:38:10 And it's true.
15:38:11 This is not an entertainment district.
15:38:13 This is a neighborhood district that's saturated with
15:38:21 I would be not following the rules appropriately.
15:38:31 This is a 4(COP-R), and being addressed with some of
15:38:36 these other e-mails and letters that I get is a 4(COP),
15:38:39 so there's a distinction of concern of businesses, and
15:38:44 some writings that I received.
15:38:46 I can say that we need to have more concentration of
15:38:53 those that come out at 1:30, 2:00, 3:00 drunk.
15:39:00 If we can have the least preference and presence for
15:39:03 Gasparilla, then they did one heck of a job.
15:39:08 We can send -- we can ask.
15:39:11 Let me rephrase.
15:39:12 I can't say anybody do anything.
15:39:15 Neither can the rest of us.
15:39:16 We can ask and I'm sure we can receive, and I noticed
15:39:20 one thing.
15:39:24 When something like this happens, as the presence and
15:39:31 they do their job right and they give out a couple
15:39:33 hundred tickets and couple hundred arrest for drunk
15:39:35 driving, as soon as they see you coming out and get
15:39:37 much in that car they can ticket you.
15:39:40 As soon as you start that engine, I guess.
15:39:43 It would change not only those that are going in with
15:39:50 the intent to get drunk.
15:39:51 You know, some people it takes three or four drinks to
15:39:53 get drunk.
15:39:54 Others who are already drunk only take one drink.
15:40:14 Years back when I was in the restaurant business I
15:40:15 never stayed open past 10:00 at night because I don't
15:40:18 care, I had to have two cooks, a dishwasher, and a
15:40:26 night crew, and that was PEPE.
15:40:32 I was a small minority partner there.
15:40:34 But I want to see this go forward on one side.
15:40:38 On the other side I want to see some restrictions.
15:40:41 And we didn't discuss that.
15:40:43 And I understand the restaurant business.
15:41:03 There's about six or search that do serve alcohol till
15:41:06 3:00 in the morning.
15:41:08 But I have compassion for the people who live close by.
15:41:12 So I'm asking for a little help to get this thing off
15:41:18 center, and I don't know if the petitioner is willing
15:41:22 to say, listen, instead of 1:00, I'm willing to go
15:41:27 Sunday through Thursday at 11 and Friday and Saturday
15:41:32 till 12 and see how that goes.
15:41:38 A young man for ten year at Roy, and -- it's something
15:41:45 that's imperative to see something happen.
15:41:48 And I know the corner.
15:41:49 And I remember the guy, the gentleman, I should say,
15:41:52 not guy, the gentleman who owned beans and strings.
15:41:55 He accused council for him closing.
15:42:00 I didn't make that agreement to close at 8:00.
15:42:02 I wasn't with even on council.
15:42:04 But the colleagues that were here were responsible for
15:42:07 He himself made that so I'm saying he's blaming us?
15:42:22 Throws something wrong or he bought the operation
15:42:23 without knowing what the restrictions were.
15:42:25 One of the two.
15:42:26 So it's not the City Council that put the restrictions
15:42:29 on him that closed that restaurant.
15:42:33 He himself without doing the due diligence.
15:42:36 So I'm looking for some help here from council members.
15:42:38 >>MARY MULHERN: This is my neighborhood.
15:42:45 I'm lucky enough that I don't live close enough to
15:42:48 Howard that I have noise problem or a problem from the
15:42:53 But it hags absolutely changed the character of this
15:42:56 neighborhood, all of the liquor sales there.
15:42:59 There's no doubt about it.
15:43:02 And it mostly families with kids who live around there,
15:43:07 besides the houses, and we just don't go to Howard
15:43:13 We lost our grocery store.
15:43:16 I'm not saying this is the fault of restaurants and
15:43:18 But the whole character of that neighborhood has
15:43:24 And it's no implication of anyone bringing in, you
15:43:28 know, the patrons who want to open a restaurant.
15:43:32 It's the fact that enough is enough.
15:43:34 We don't need anymore liquor sales.
15:43:37 We need -- we would love -- I would love to have a
15:43:40 restaurant that I would want to actually walk to,
15:43:42 because you are in walking distance from my house.
15:43:44 But I am never going to walk there at 11:00 at night,
15:43:48 and, you know, I am never going to take my kids there
15:43:51 because of the character of the street.
15:43:53 So what has happened is our residential neighborhood
15:43:55 has turned into Ybor.
15:43:59 That whole block of Howard.
15:44:04 We can now get a tattoo, I noticed the other day.
15:44:07 >> Are you going to get it?
15:44:13 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't know.
15:44:14 And it can also, because there's so much liquor there,
15:44:18 we have got food vendors, and showing up selling
15:44:24 hotdogs because people are hungry and need to eat.
15:44:29 So I would like to see this restaurant.
15:44:31 I would only approve it if it was just beer and wine
15:44:36 And if it closed at 11.
15:44:39 I would like to point out that we have -- I'm not sure
15:44:41 what these petitions are, but they are in favor of the
15:44:43 restaurant, but at least half of them aren't even from
15:44:47 people who live in Tampa.
15:44:49 So that's part of the record here.
15:44:53 But make sure that your petitions are signed by people
15:44:56 who actually live in the neighborhood.
15:45:02 You are asking for these waivers, distance separation
15:45:08 waivers, and, you know, it's exactly the same as what's
15:45:11 happened in Ybor and now even Channelside.
15:45:16 You hear Channelside which hardly has any residents.
15:45:20 So we just need to have a little more balance and more
15:45:24 neighborhood flavor.
15:45:24 So I would love to see you open your restaurant.
15:45:29 And you have got that bar right across the street that
15:45:32 I feel, you know, I got bamboozled on because I voted
15:45:38 for looking forward to the nice little Italian
15:45:42 restaurant and I don't know how long that was open
15:45:44 because I never got a chance to try it.
15:45:47 So I can't support it unless there's no liquor sales
15:45:54 and it closes at 11.
15:45:59 At midnight on Friday and Saturday.
15:46:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question for our attorney.
15:46:04 If we deny this today, does that allow the petitioner
15:46:09 to come back and request a lesser zoning like a
15:46:17 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes.
15:46:18 The issue of the filing is something that I have to
15:46:21 >>MARY MULHERN: Or would it be better to continue
15:46:24 I can't support what's before us and several other
15:46:27 colleagues who can't.
15:46:27 So can we continue this with the understanding that the
15:46:31 petitioner would need to come back and ask for a lesser
15:46:36 Or to turn it down?
15:46:40 I would be comfortable considering to allow the
15:46:44 petitioner to come back and ask for a lesser zoning.
15:46:47 We have such enormous waiver requests, I mean, why even
15:46:53 have rules that people are asking for restrictions from
15:46:58 1 that you feet to 60 feet.
15:47:03 I mean --
15:47:08 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I can, council.
15:47:10 A couple of things.
15:47:10 Number one is you heard a lot of testimony.
15:47:15 When the time ultimately does come to you to make a
15:47:17 decision, it would be good to reference, that you
15:47:20 supported your decision, whatever it is, by the
15:47:21 competent evidence at the hearing.
15:47:24 Obviously, Ms. Kert is standing up there.
15:47:29 She has something to say.
15:47:31 I was going to inquire of the petitioner because the
15:47:33 decision of whether to continue ultimately is the
15:47:36 request of the petitioner.
15:47:39 He obviously has heard council's conversation.
15:47:42 He does have the right to request an up or down vote on
15:47:45 his petition today.
15:47:47 If it's his desire to continue it, then it would be
15:47:51 appropriate at this time for him --
15:47:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would move to reopen the public
15:47:54 hearing to allow the dialogue.
15:47:55 >> Second.
15:47:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
15:47:58 All in favor say Aye.
15:47:59 Opposed, Nay.
15:48:00 >> Two questions.
15:48:04 One, is it possible to do a one-year -- I don't know
15:48:07 the proper language -- conditional for what we
15:48:10 Would that be amenable to council so that if we didn't
15:48:14 act as we said that next year we would come back and
15:48:18 lose our wet zoning.
15:48:19 Or is it, two, that we would move to a 2(COP-R) with
15:48:25 the 11 p.m. and the 1 a.m. closing on the weekend?
15:48:28 >>MARY MULHERN: I would support the latter.
15:48:35 I don't want to condition it.
15:48:37 >> Okay.
15:48:38 So if we agreed to do a 2(COP-R), 11 p.m. during the
15:48:42 week, 1 a.m. on the weekend, is that amenable to
15:48:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I honestly believe that if this is
15:48:50 a really good restaurant, it will do well, because
15:48:52 really good restaurants do well every place in town.
15:48:55 But this neighborhood has been so unduly burdened by
15:49:00 things that masquerade as a restaurant but really
15:49:03 aren't, that I would support the idea of merging -- of
15:49:07 doing a 2(COP-R) but have it conditional for a year.
15:49:10 And the gentleman hop is the cook, if he's as good a
15:49:13 cook as he says, he will do well.
15:49:15 I mean, good restaurants in this town are busy.
15:49:17 And I'm confident that he will do well.