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TAMPA CITY COUNCIL

Thursday, March 4, 2010

9:00 a.m. session


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09:06:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Good morning.

09:07:00 Madam Chair, members of council.

09:07:02 Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

09:07:03 During this morning's recitation of the pledge of

09:07:08 allegiance there may be some who based on past

09:07:11 occurrences may find certain words within the pledge of

09:07:13 allegiance to be personally objectionable.

09:07:16 While there is no requirement to recite the pledge of

09:07:19 allegiance, one is still obliged to not disrupt the

09:07:23 assembly.

09:07:24 So out of respect and courtesy to others, those

09:07:27 individuals who find certain words objectionable are

09:07:32 asked to remain silent during recitation of those words

09:07:35 to allow others to recite the entire pledge.

09:07:38 And so as to not be disruptive.

09:07:42 Your cooperation is greatly appreciated and I thank

09:07:44 you.

09:07:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Now the chair will yield to Mr. Charlie

09:07:49 Miranda.

09:07:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It's my pleasure this morning to

09:07:51 introduce Steve Michelini to do the invocation, and

09:07:55 also this is his birthday.

09:07:57 I think it's number 27.

09:08:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Plus many, many more.

09:08:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Many, many more.

09:08:06 Please rise and remain standing for the pledge of

09:08:09 allegiance.

09:08:09 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Dear Lord, God, we have made all

09:08:16 things and made them good and established principles of

09:08:20 life.

09:08:20 God is a living and good God.

09:08:22 Pray to God and worship no others.

09:08:25 Love the Lord God with your whole heart and with your

09:08:29 whole soul and spirit and with all of your strength.

09:08:32 Good and holy one, we praise and bless you for creating

09:08:35 so many people of the earth.

09:08:36 We thank you for joining us together in prayer.

09:08:40 Forgive us for the time that we forget that we belong

09:08:42 to one family, with one father.

09:08:44 We ask that you help us seek peace among nations, among

09:08:48 the faiths, and guide our actions only towards peaceful

09:08:51 ends.

09:08:52 We look for you to guide us on this path of peace.

09:08:56 We send thanks to all the animal life and all the

09:08:59 world.

09:09:00 They have many things to teach us as people.

09:09:01 We are glad that they are here and we pray to God that

09:09:04 we will protect them and all of his people.

09:09:06 The earth is our mother.

09:09:07 Take care of her.

09:09:09 Open your heart and your soul.

09:09:11 Respect and protect all living things.

09:09:13 Take from the earth only what is needed.

09:09:15 Do what needs to be done.




09:09:17 Make things right.

09:09:18 Give thanks to God every day.

09:09:21 For God has given us so much precious gifts.

09:09:24 We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men

09:09:28 are created and endowed by the creator with certain

09:09:31 unalienable rights, among these life, liberty and

09:09:34 pursuit of happiness.

09:09:35 In support of the declaration, we affirm reliance upon

09:09:39 the protection of the divine providence.

09:09:42 We pledge to each other our lives, fortunes and sacred

09:09:45 honor in God's name.

09:09:46 We ask you to bestow your righteous blessing, strength,

09:09:49 wisdom, patience, understanding upon all governments

09:09:54 and all who appear today.

09:09:55 In his name.

09:09:56 Amen.

09:09:57 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]

09:10:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Roll call.

09:10:17 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.

09:10:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.

09:10:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.

09:10:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.




09:10:23 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.

09:10:27 >>GWEN MILLER: We need a motion to approve the

09:10:29 minutes.

09:10:29 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Madam Chairman?

09:10:34 We cannot continue to have people in the audience who

09:10:38 cannot say the pledge of allegiance properly.

09:10:41 If they can't, we have got to remove them.

09:10:46 I know how you feel, Mr. Miranda, but that's not right.

09:10:50 Okay.

09:10:53 They should keep their mouth shut.

09:10:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: These are the halls of the public.

09:11:03 You are living in a free country.

09:11:04 Let them do what they want.

09:11:06 But I am not going to start an argument today.

09:11:08 I'm not going to start an argument tomorrow.

09:11:10 I'm not going to start an argument next month.

09:11:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay, we are going to discuss it at the

09:11:16 end of our meeting.

09:11:17 We have a heavy schedule this morning.

09:11:19 We need to do our agenda.

09:11:20 Then we can discuss it at the end of the meeting.

09:11:23 We are going to move on and discuss that after the

09:11:27 meeting.

09:11:27 Mrs. Mulhern.

09:11:28 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a question.

09:11:33 Item number 70.

09:11:35 9 we are going to do that.

09:11:37 Hold it one second we need a motion to approve the

09:11:40 minutes.

09:11:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.

09:11:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

09:11:44 89 now we will go to the addendum.

09:11:46 Mr. Shelby.

09:11:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Before you, you have the addendum to

09:11:50 today's agenda.

09:11:51 Beginning with item number 2, you have a substitute

09:11:57 resolution.

09:12:05 Item number 63 is also a substitute ordinance regarding

09:12:09 news racks provided by assistant city attorney Rebecca

09:12:14 Kert.

09:12:15 Item number 61 is a case where the public hearing at

09:12:22 9:30 in the morning will have to be opened and

09:12:24 continued to March 18th at 9:30 in order to meet a

09:12:27 30-day requirement between second reading of the plan




09:12:31 amendment and the zoning petition.

09:12:33 And that is a an ordinance regarding property on north

09:12:38 Hubert Avenue and West Gray Street.

09:12:41 So that will not be heard at 9:30.

09:12:43 It will be continued.

09:12:45 Item 74 is a 1:30 hearing regarding an SU-2 at 1118 to

09:12:55 20 West Kennedy Boulevard, New Port.

09:12:58 That cannot be heard.

09:12:59 The petitioner did not perfect notice.

09:13:01 It will at 1:30 need to be removed from the agenda.

09:13:04 The amendment fee has been paid and has been

09:13:05 administratively rescheduled for April 15th of

09:13:09 2010.

09:13:10 >> Item 75 is a substitute ordinance to revise 2(COP-R)

09:13:18 at 223 South Howard Avenue.

09:13:20 That will be taken up at 1:30 in the afternoon.

09:13:22 That will add a one-year conditional use.

09:13:24 And it will be revised to a 2(COP-R).

09:13:28 Item number 76 at 1:oh 30 again in the afternoon will

09:13:33 be a request at that time by the petitioner for a

09:13:37 60-day continuance regarding an appeal from a BLC

09:13:41 decision.


09:13:42 Finally, item number 77 is also scheduled for 1:30.

09:13:46 That is a request by senior assistant attorney Julia

09:13:51 Cole to remove the stimulated agreement between the

09:13:53 DCA, Air Force, City of Tampa and spray MISER from

09:13:58 today's agenda.

09:13:59 I am not familiar with any other substitutions or

09:14:03 additions or removals to today's agenda, and I present

09:14:06 it to council for your approval.

09:14:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Mulhern?

09:14:10 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.

09:14:11 I had one question for Mr. Daignault.

09:14:15 I don't think he's here.

09:14:18 On item 70, I had asked for a report from the

09:14:23 transportation division on the proposed elevated Gandy

09:14:30 roadway, and Mr. Daignault was has asked to give a

09:14:35 PowerPoint presentation.

09:14:36 I understand that's actually a presentation from a

09:14:38 consultant, or a representative of the expressway

09:14:42 authority.

09:14:42 And that was not part of the motion.

09:14:46 It's not that I'm opposed to that happening, but I'm

09:14:49 concerned because we have a very long meeting today,




09:14:51 and I would like to have the questions that are

09:14:54 really -- the administration and legal answered

09:14:59 previous to any PowerPoint presentation.

09:15:03 And then if we have time, if we feel that DC answers

09:15:10 what we have made the motion for, answered them, if it

09:15:13 is not a PowerPoint that has been developed by our own

09:15:19 administration, then we would do that.

09:15:23 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Let me, for clarification, the

09:15:27 reason that the -- expressway authority was brought in

09:15:30 is because they are the ones working on this.

09:15:32 The city has not really had a role in this process.

09:15:36 So I guess I'm not sure what we would prepare for you.

09:15:40 We assumed that you wanted information on the proposal.

09:15:43 >>MARY MULHERN: We didn't ask for the expressway

09:15:45 authority.

09:15:46 I have been briefed, I believe probably everyone on

09:15:49 council has had a briefing from the expressway

09:15:51 authority, and the neighborhoods have had the

09:15:53 opportunity and to have participated in their meeting.

09:15:56 This was really for me to get clarification for our

09:16:07 constituents and for us about what the city's role is

09:16:09 in this.




09:16:10 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Okay.

09:16:13 >>MARY MULHERN: And that's what this was about.

09:16:15 >> We would be happy to address that at the appropriate

09:16:18 time.

09:16:19 >> And if we feel like we have time -- I don't think

09:16:21 this motion -- I think the constituents, the hearing

09:16:28 part is going to be at 9:00.

09:16:33 Anyway, I don't think they are going to be able to

09:16:36 speak during the staff report.

09:16:39 So that I understand.

09:16:40 But as far as the PowerPoint, you know, we need to know

09:16:45 how long it is, and it needs to be the last thing if we

09:16:49 are going to decide to hear it.

09:16:50 >> I am here to answer any questions and then if you

09:16:58 would like the PowerPoint.

09:17:00 >> And then Mr. Daignault -- you can let him know.

09:17:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And again if I can follow up, Madam

09:17:04 Chair, just to say that this is not for public hearing,

09:17:08 it's only for staff report, so those people who wish to

09:17:11 address the expressway issue on item 70, the

09:17:14 appropriate time to do that would be during agendaed

09:17:16 public comment at the beginning of the meeting.




09:17:17 >>GWEN MILLER: We need a motion.

09:17:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.

09:17:25 >> Second.

09:17:25 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.

09:17:27 All in favor.

09:17:28 Opposed?

09:17:29 I would like to put on the record that councilman Scott

09:17:32 is out of town and will not be attending today's

09:17:34 record, and councilman Caetano will be leaving at 12:00

09:17:37 noon.

09:17:38 We now go to our public comments.

09:17:40 We have 30 minutes.

09:17:42 For those who are going to speak on items on the agenda

09:17:44 for public hearing, we would like them to speak first,

09:17:47 and then the others can speak after that.

09:17:49 >> Al Steenson, 4100 west Leila Avenue, Tampa, Florida.

09:18:00 Again, here this morning representing the Gandy sun bay

09:18:05 south civic association.

09:18:06 Since I have been here twice before, I will be as brief

09:18:10 as I can.

09:18:11 I want to just key in on one issue and one issue only,

09:18:17 throughout the entire dialogue that we have had with




09:18:19 the expressway, the one key goal that they had was --

09:18:25 and if I may use the Elmo.

09:18:31 Throughout the entire process their goal has been --

09:18:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Put it down.

09:18:44 >>> Must have community support.

09:18:47 If you read your e-mails, seen the letters, it should

09:18:50 be pretty obvious to you right now, that it does not

09:18:55 have community support.

09:18:55 It doesn't have support of the businesses.

09:18:57 It doesn't have support of the residential.

09:18:59 I know this is not a legislative issue.

09:19:03 But we are the folks, the constituents, the voters of

09:19:07 the City of Tampa are the ones that put you where you

09:19:09 are sitting today.

09:19:10 And all we are asking you to do is to support our

09:19:14 community, to support your constituents.

09:19:17 Make phone calls, send e-mails.

09:19:20 If you wish when this item comes up as an action item

09:19:24 as the board which we understand will be March 22nd,

09:19:27 show up.

09:19:27 You're a citizen.

09:19:28 But you are also an elected official, and support our




09:19:30 community.

09:19:31 It's unfortunate that Chairman Scott is not here today.

09:19:34 He is the only member of this council that is a voting

09:19:40 member of the expressway authority, and he is not here,

09:19:42 and we certainly hope that you will express the

09:19:48 concerns that you hear here today to him in order to

09:19:52 get the support that we are asking for.

09:19:55 The expressway authority doesn't have support.

09:19:58 I don't know where it's coming from.

09:20:00 They haven't really shown a need.

09:20:01 So with that, I want to close.

09:20:04 And I have some documents here that Mr. Bill Wilson has

09:20:09 asked me to submit.

09:20:10 They are a series of petitions.

09:20:12 They have been signed.

09:20:13 I think they are somewhere in the neighborhood of 14 or

09:20:15 1500 of them.

09:20:16 I would like to put those in the record.

09:20:18 Thank you very much.

09:20:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker.

09:20:20 >> Good morning, council.

09:20:24 My name is Joseph Booker.




09:20:25 I live at 6560 South Westshore circle, for 25-plus

09:20:31 years.

09:20:32 I'm active in the Gandy sun bay south civic

09:20:34 association.

09:20:35 I serve as treasurer of that corporation.

09:20:37 I would like to make comment on item 70.

09:20:40 On the agenda.

09:20:41 First, I would like to thank Councilwoman Saul-Sena for

09:20:45 spending so much of her precious evening time at one of

09:20:49 our recent meetings to hear our real concerns.

09:20:52 We appreciate that.

09:20:53 Hopefully some of you will accept our long standing

09:20:56 open invitation to join us as future meetings and see

09:21:08 what we are trying to do.

09:21:09 We don't relish this spoiler image or the image that

09:21:14 many at Gandy that has been belabored for years.

09:21:21 We would much prefer one of an active, close community

09:21:24 union trying to improve our Tampa town.

09:21:29 And part of a team with the city government to develop

09:21:34 a plan to get positive things done to make Tampa

09:21:37 beautiful from the inside.

09:21:42 And particularly in our neighborhood, sun bay south.




09:21:46 In spite of the slick presentation the proposed

09:21:51 elevated Gandy connector, one, is not needed, two, is

09:21:55 not wanted, three, it's poorly thought out as to its

09:21:58 impact to our neighborhood, and, fourth and mostly,

09:22:03 it's divisive, further making sun bay south more not a

09:22:08 part of us -- Tampa being "us."

09:22:12 We need you to back us in our opposition to this

09:22:14 monstrosity and bring us as much political clout as you

09:22:19 can to the authorities because we can't afford any more

09:22:25 empire building.

09:22:27 I say enough of this wasteful negative energy.

09:22:31 Let's put a plan together with staff to improve the

09:22:34 quality of life in our neighborhood, and build a

09:22:38 community with single-family residences, stores, parks,

09:22:43 restaurants, sidewalks, and for sure no abandoned

09:22:49 industrial buildings.

09:22:51 Give us your support.

09:22:53 We'll give you ours.

09:22:54 Thank you.

09:22:54 >> My name is Bill Wilson.

09:23:03 I'm here to mach a statement on item 70, the Gandy

09:23:08 overhead expressway extension.




09:23:10 Ten reasons to reject these the proposed elevated

09:23:13 expressway.

09:23:14 One, aesthetic des degradation outweighs the traffic.

09:23:20 2, outweighs for a better storm evacuation route.

09:23:24 Three, if it is built it is permanent whether or not

09:23:26 the projected counts ever become reality.

09:23:29 Four, assuming there is a plus or minus 35% reduction

09:23:32 in rush hour traffic as it states, 65% of what is now

09:23:37 considered to be horrible by some will still be very

09:23:39 bad, not only in the shadow of a sky-blocking

09:23:44 structure.

09:23:45 Five, most local residents view Gandy part of the

09:23:49 neighborhood and believe an overhead structure will

09:23:51 seriously diminish the character of the their Main

09:23:55 Street; six, Joe Waggoner stated in the final PAG

09:23:59 meeting that the toll it most likely be greater than

09:24:03 the 25 cents which has been part of the sales pitch,

09:24:06 and even if the numbers don't work out to where toll

09:24:09 revenue will cover the entire cost of the project the

09:24:11 Florida Department of Transportation with taxpayer

09:24:15 money will make up the difference.

09:24:18 Seven, the actual end cost of the project will most




09:24:21 likely end up being far greater than the current

09:24:24 estimated cost, potentially dragging a large sum of tax

09:24:27 dollars into the mix.

09:24:29 Eight, businesses on Gandy which receive a noticeable

09:24:34 percentage of business from impulse shoppers tend to be

09:24:36 seriously hurt by this bypass.

09:24:38 Nine, the potential and some believe very likely

09:24:41 reduction in property values along Gandy will hurt the

09:24:44 property owners and generate fewer tax dollars for the

09:24:47 city.

09:24:49 Ten, maintained that they will not pursue the project

09:24:52 without community support, and based on the opposition

09:24:54 by the surrounding neighborhood associations, many

09:24:57 businesses and what I believe to be 70-plus percent of

09:25:02 the local residents, they do not have the support.

09:25:06 Of course the definition of community may be something

09:25:09 different.

09:25:09 Please speak up for the residents and tell them that we

09:25:12 reject this proposal.

09:25:13 Thank you.

09:25:22 >> Good morning.

09:25:23 My name is Anna Harris, and I live at 4601 west poplar




09:25:31 road in Tampa.

09:25:32 And I am secretary of the bayside west neighborhood

09:25:35 association.

09:25:37 We do not need an overpass on Gandy Boulevard.

09:25:41 Now that the Florida Department of Transportation has

09:25:45 redesigned the traffic pattern, traffic is moving much

09:25:49 more smoothly.

09:25:52 There are no backups at the traffic signals.

09:25:57 Even during rush hours.

09:26:00 We have observed this.

09:26:03 Here for the record are 57 e-mails from bayside west

09:26:13 neighbors.

09:26:14 75% of these oppose the plan to build an overpass.

09:26:20 We are counting on your representative to the Tampa

09:26:27 Hillsborough -- to the Tampa expressway authority's

09:26:30 representative.

09:26:32 We are counting on your representatives to that board

09:26:37 to take our message to the board.

09:26:42 Thank you very much.

09:26:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Give it to our attorney.

09:26:49 >>> Good morning.

09:26:56 My name is John cotton, 4612 west price Avenue, south




09:27:02 Gandy Boulevard between Trask and rinelli.

09:27:06 I am going to reiterate some of the things you already

09:27:08 heard but I have some numbers.

09:27:10 Three main things the expressway authority has said.

09:27:12 One, hurricane evacuation with the Gandy overpass.

09:27:16 Two, future congestion.

09:27:17 And, three, that it won't hurt business.

09:27:23 You have a four-lane bridge going into four-lane road,

09:27:26 into a four-lane highway.

09:27:28 Two miles of extra lanes, 30 feet in the air, it's

09:27:31 going to be a parking lot during an evacuation route.

09:27:35 God forbid if we have anything like Katrina, but when

09:27:38 that does happen all those lanes will be going east and

09:27:40 two extra lanes near the hospital.

09:27:45 The future congestion right now since the work has been

09:27:48 done, congestion is gone.

09:27:51 It flows great.

09:27:53 As the last lady said --

09:27:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Who have has a cell phone, would you

09:27:57 please turn them off or put them on silent, please?

09:28:00 Thank you.

09:28:00 >>> I left at five after eight this morning and I




09:28:04 didn't stop until I hit Bayshore.

09:28:07 I hit every light.

09:28:11 Numbers are hard to dispute.

09:28:13 We have 365 days in a year.

09:28:15 Take out the weekends and holiday you have 66% of the

09:28:18 year left of work days, 243.

09:28:23 By 24 hours a day, you have got two hours in the

09:28:25 morning, two hours in the afternoon.

09:28:27 That's four days a -- hours a day where you have heavy

09:28:30 congestion.

09:28:31 It's not even bad now.

09:28:32 That's only 16% of the work days.

09:28:35 11% for the year.

09:28:37 And the expressway authority said it was going to help

09:28:39 by 33%.

09:28:41 I think said 333 cars per thousand got on the

09:28:45 Crosstown.

09:28:46 Again, those are numbers only derived from heavy

09:28:49 traffic times.

09:28:51 There at the off hours there's not that many cars

09:28:54 getting on the Crosstown.

09:28:56 So when you take 11% of the year and 33% of that, you




09:29:01 have not even 4% for $128 million and a 30-foot

09:29:07 monstrosity down the middle of our street.

09:29:10 And I say the middle of our street because the Lee Roy

09:29:13 Selmon Expressway runs through an industrial area, you

09:29:19 hardly see a house from there except maybe across some

09:29:23 water.

09:29:24 Here 150 feet you have neighborhoods for a mile each

09:29:30 way.

09:29:35 Clearly the businesses, I drive through these streets

09:29:39 on my neighborhood, I see the kids, I see the older

09:29:41 people, I see people of every age walking to work in

09:29:44 their Sweetbay uniforms, Burger King, wherever they

09:29:48 work.

09:29:48 They are walking up these side streets to go to these

09:29:51 businesses.

09:29:52 Anything that can be -- to degradate those businesses

09:29:57 right now especially in this economy, if it could be

09:30:00 avoided, please avoid it.

09:30:03 Lastly, it's going to be a monstrosity.

09:30:07 It's ugly.

09:30:08 It's going to block out the sun.

09:30:10 This is not a corridor.




09:30:11 This is one of our streets.

09:30:12 This is not in an industrial area.

09:30:14 This is our neighborhood.

09:30:16 Please use your ability to help the expressway

09:30:20 authority see this treasure and the idea of having it

09:30:25 come through our neighborhood.

09:30:26 Thank you for your time today and God bless.

09:30:38 >> My name is Jason Rodriguez, a resident of district

09:30:41 4.

09:30:43 Before I address the council directly, I want to

09:30:46 respond to a statement that was made in a meeting two

09:30:50 weeks ago by a representative from concerned women for

09:30:54 America.

09:30:56 I don't intend to waste the council's time too much on

09:30:59 this but when somebody presents to council and the

09:31:02 public with flagrant misinformation and political

09:31:06 propaganda, I feel obligated and compelled to correct

09:31:09 that.

09:31:12 This particular representative thanks the council for

09:31:14 continuing the prayers and invocation during these

09:31:17 meetings because doing so uphold the Biblical

09:31:22 principles upon which our nation was founded.




09:31:24 If we were founded on Biblical principles, we wouldn't

09:31:27 have a democracy, we wouldn't have trials by jury of

09:31:31 our peers, and we wouldn't have laws protecting our

09:31:35 civil rights, among many other things that we enjoy

09:31:38 today.

09:31:40 Instead, we have something quite different, and frankly

09:31:43 very barbaric.

09:31:46 The Bible endorses slavery, and it even defines the

09:31:50 rules for having slaves.

09:31:53 It advocates the subrogation of women and the raping of

09:31:57 women.

09:31:58 It commands and fantasizes genocide and human

09:32:03 sacrifice.

09:32:04 And it demands the stoning of homosexuals, unruly

09:32:09 children, and nonbelievers.

09:32:12 Now I'm not just bringing this up to be confrontational

09:32:17 or pejorative.

09:32:18 I'm bringing this up because a lot of people in the

09:32:20 public don't know these things are actually in the

09:32:22 Bible so it's not common knowledge.

09:32:23 So the idea that we are founded on Biblical principles

09:32:26 is not only entirely false, it's embarrassingly absurd.




09:32:34 The founding father's didn't flee religious persecution

09:32:38 to bring it here.

09:32:39 And that's why we have a secular government.

09:32:43 In addition, the word "God" never mentioned in the

09:32:45 constitution.

09:32:47 There's certainly no mention of the Bible or the

09:32:50 Messiah or any profit in the founding documents.

09:32:53 The treaty of Tripoli says expressively the government

09:32:57 of the United States is not in any sense founded on the

09:33:02 Christian religion.

09:33:04 And this particular document was approved unanimously

09:33:07 by the Senate in 1797 and signed by John Adams.

09:33:12 So concerned women for America, this organization,

09:33:15 really needs to be more concerned about getting the

09:33:19 facts straight.

09:33:20 Now I would like to address the council directly.

09:33:23 I think that in the situation regarding invocation in

09:33:26 public meetings, we are all victims of tradition.

09:33:31 And I think that includes the council.

09:33:33 When you all arrived here, when you earned your seat on

09:33:36 the council, this practice was already in place.

09:33:39 So in a way you inherited this.




09:33:42 The difference is, unlike us, you have the power to

09:33:47 correct this problem.

09:33:49 So however you may be victims of it, you are not

09:33:55 powerless.

09:33:55 So no longer do you have to continue a tradition that

09:33:59 forces you or any of us in an unwarranted or unfair

09:34:04 situation.

09:34:05 So by removing the invocations altogether or

09:34:10 substituting them --

09:34:11 (Bell sounds).

09:34:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, sir, your time is up.

09:34:14 >>> Thank you for your time.

09:34:15 >> Good morning.

09:34:20 My name is Sandy Ross.

09:34:21 I live at 4851 West Gandy Boulevard, 15 lot 28.

09:34:27 I live in a 55-plus community called Regency cove.

09:34:32 There are over 430 households there.

09:34:35 And earlier this month, we allowed the people of the

09:34:38 community to vote and to select a position for our

09:34:44 opposition or support of the Gandy project.

09:34:49 I wrote councilman Dingfelder an e-mail, and very

09:34:54 surprised in our response by our decision, and you




09:35:00 thought you heard through the grapevine that we had

09:35:02 supported the project.

09:35:03 I'm here to bring the grapevine to you.

09:35:06 We had opposition to the project by three to one, and

09:35:11 only one fourth of the people actually supported the

09:35:14 project.

09:35:17 We live in that community.

09:35:18 We are one of those communities that's just 100 feet

09:35:22 off of Gandy Boulevard.

09:35:23 Many of our residents shop and walk in that area, and

09:35:27 we want to keep our neighborhood strong and vibrant.

09:35:29 Thank you very much.

09:35:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I wanted to ask a question.

09:35:33 How many people live in Regency cove and how many

09:35:37 participated in this?

09:35:39 >>> I don't know how many people.

09:35:41 I have household.

09:35:42 We have 430 households.

09:35:44 The houses are designed for two people.

09:35:46 But there are many single owners.

09:35:48 We allow in our February newsletter one week for the

09:35:54 ballots to come out, and in that week, 82 ballots were




09:35:59 turned in.

09:36:00 That's about a fourth of the households.

09:36:03 That responded to it.

09:36:04 And of those 82 ballots, 59 were opposed to the

09:36:09 project, three people had no comment, no opinion, and

09:36:14 only 20 were opposed to the project.

09:36:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: You mean supported it.

09:36:19 >>> Or supported president.

09:36:21 Yes.

09:36:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you for bringing the

09:36:23 information to us.

09:36:23 >>> Thank you.

09:36:24 >>> My name is John Kieffer.

09:36:30 I'm the president of atheists of Florida.

09:36:33 And our office is at 3614 south Manhattan Avenue in

09:36:41 Tampa.

09:36:42 I'm also a resident of Tampa but I'm not going to tell

09:36:45 you what my residence address is.

09:36:47 It's because I'm an atheist, and I don't want to bring

09:36:50 harm on my family.

09:36:53 We are a minority, religious minority, and as such the

09:37:00 religious majority has a tendency to have its way with




09:37:04 us.

09:37:05 And I'm trying to speak calmly.

09:37:09 I'm really enraged.

09:37:10 I'm very enraged.

09:37:13 That there's people on the City Council, and in the

09:37:19 audience here, and I respect everybody's service in the

09:37:22 military, if you served, and I served.

09:37:25 You served in Vietnam, as you know.

09:37:26 I was in combat.

09:37:29 I had friends next to me get killed.

09:37:33 I'm very lucky that I'm alive today.

09:37:38 I went over to Vietnam as a Christian.

09:37:40 I became an atheist in Vietnam.

09:37:45 That's just the way it is.

09:37:46 You can't change my world view as much as I can't

09:37:52 change yours.

09:37:52 It's just a fact.

09:37:53 But I am an atheist, and I hold true to my world view.

09:37:57 And when you do this invocation, you really give me no

09:38:00 good choice.

09:38:03 I can either stand up and pretend to act like I'm

09:38:07 praying, and that really wouldn't be true to my world




09:38:13 view.

09:38:14 Or I can remain seated, and then everyone can look and

09:38:18 see, oh, that guy is sitting down.

09:38:21 So he must not be one of us, of the majority religion,

09:38:26 he must be one of those atheists.

09:38:28 And those aren't really God choices.

09:38:32 I mean, I fought for this country, and this San good

09:38:35 country.

09:38:36 But for the majority to impose their religion on me

09:38:39 just because I want to come to City Council and conduct

09:38:41 business, it's really not fair.

09:38:47 Toss aside the Constitutional aspects, it's just not

09:38:49 fair.

09:38:50 It's just not a nice thing to do to me.

09:38:52 And I'm very angry.

09:38:55 And I'm asking you, please, to reconsider this

09:38:59 tradition.

09:39:01 And I respect everybody's religion.

09:39:04 If anyone here was stopped -- you know, I was at a

09:39:07 restaurant the other day and I looked around an not one

09:39:09 single person stopped to pray before their dinner,

09:39:12 because they didn't want to be seen praying in a




09:39:15 commercial restaurant.

09:39:16 But when it comes to government, we are just going to

09:39:19 impose it on everybody.

09:39:20 Think about that.

09:39:21 And the other thing is that I'm not alone out here.

09:39:25 There's lots of atheists.

09:39:27 In fact, the latest NORC study, national opinion

09:39:32 research commission, GSS, specifically general social

09:39:40 surveys, found that in 2004 that of the respondents,

09:39:44 14% of all ages responded "none" to asked what is your

09:39:51 religious preference?

09:39:52 They actually answered no religion.

09:39:54 The other choices were Christian, Judaism, Protestant,

09:39:59 and of course none.

09:40:02 (Bell sounds).

09:40:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, sir.

09:40:05 Your time is over.

09:40:06 >>> There's --

09:40:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, your time is over.

09:40:14 >>> Good morning.

09:40:15 My name is Christopher Koehler, 10607 Carol brook lane

09:40:19 and I work in the Gandy area.




09:40:22 I feel like I'm coming to this a little bit late in the

09:40:24 game, but I do in general support the idea of extending

09:40:28 the Crosstown.

09:40:29 I use the Crosstown frequently.

09:40:31 I would like to draw the attention to the council's --

09:40:34 to the council to the skyway bridge, which

09:40:37 unfortunately was built about 25 feet too short for the

09:40:41 largest group of cruise ships, so we don't have access

09:40:45 to those.

09:40:46 Tropicana stadium was built too short, so the baseballs

09:40:50 get caught in the rafters.

09:40:51 They had to change the rules.

09:40:52 Now they are going to have to build a new stadium.

09:40:55 And generally governments are constrained by budgetary

09:40:58 constraints and political constraints, and frequently

09:41:01 choose the cheapest and least politically risky option

09:41:06 when making decisions.

09:41:10 But I think that the reality is that this road that's

09:41:15 going to be built, so instead of saying we are not

09:41:17 going to accept that reality, why don't we think of

09:41:19 ways that we can make it benefit the community?

09:41:23 One, if they are going to build the extension, they




09:41:25 should make it the same as the rest of the Crosstown,

09:41:28 and that is four lanes, two in each direction.

09:41:32 Secondly, we are talking about building a rapid

09:41:35 transit.

09:41:37 Light rail.

09:41:38 The Crosstown expressway median going from downtown to

09:41:45 Dale Mabry and to Gandy is perfect for light rail line

09:41:47 that would serve the south of Gandy community,

09:41:51 MacDill Air Force Base, and possibly given a

09:41:53 connector going across to St. Petersburg.

09:41:57 So I can't believe that the Crosstown expressway has

09:42:02 come up with a design that does not take these things

09:42:05 into account.

09:42:06 It's crazy.

09:42:07 Let's look to the future and not be bound by penny

09:42:11 pinching here and there.

09:42:16 Finally, I noticed in their plan that they did not have

09:42:19 any plans for any entrance ramp or exit ramps.

09:42:24 There should be at Westshore Boulevard certainly an

09:42:27 entrance and an exit ramp.

09:42:29 There's trucks come from port of Tampa, the traffic jam

09:42:32 on Westshore Boulevard at rush hour goes for a mile




09:42:36 sometimes.

09:42:38 That there should be an exit ramp and entrance ramp.

09:42:42 And lastly, if we are going to build a light rail line

09:42:45 or accommodate for one in the future, perhaps we could

09:42:48 have some stations, maybe a couple of them, that would

09:42:52 serve the south of Gandy area, maybe service by buses

09:42:56 in that area.

09:42:56 So instead of just fighting this, if it's going to

09:42:59 happen, let's find a way to make it so that it actually

09:43:02 benefits the area instead of bypassing it.

09:43:05 And that's all.

09:43:06 Thank you.

09:43:06 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to ask you one question,

09:43:11 like your anecdotal experience.

09:43:13 Where do you live, Carrollwood?

09:43:15 >>> I live in Carrollwood and work in the Gandy area.

09:43:18 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.

09:43:19 So as it's designed now, would it help you in any way

09:43:23 in your commute?

09:43:24 >>> It would a little bit.

09:43:26 >>MARY MULHERN: How would you use it?

09:43:29 >>> I get on the Crosstown expressway just because of




09:43:32 the work that I do at the Willow entrance.

09:43:36 And I get off at the end of it, which feeds into Gandy,

09:43:40 and then I go to work from there.

09:43:41 But I would take it --

09:43:43 >>MARY MULHERN: Do you take 275 down to the Crosstown?

09:43:46 Is that what you do?

09:43:47 >>> No, I have business that takes me into the central

09:43:50 area of Tampa before I go to work.

09:43:52 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.

09:43:54 >>> So I hop on the Crosstown, go to Gandy.

09:43:56 And I would take it to the Westshore Boulevard exit if

09:43:59 there were one.

09:44:00 But I think it makes a lot of sense to consider this,

09:44:03 because a lot of those people that use the Crosstown

09:44:06 expressway are going to St. Pete, and they are not

09:44:08 stopping anyway.

09:44:09 But let's make room for one for people who want to use

09:44:13 the businesses, and that the people who live in that

09:44:16 area, it would be a lot quicker, even people from

09:44:18 downtown if they live in the Gandy area.

09:44:21 There are all kinds of new developments which some of

09:44:24 which got put to a screeching halt because of the real




09:44:27 estate market, but all down Westshore Boulevard, there

09:44:32 are hundreds of new homes.

09:44:36 What are we going to do with all that traffic?

09:44:38 >>MARY MULHERN: I was just wondering about your

09:44:40 personal experiences.

09:44:41 And so you have a lot of ideas, but it's really -- you

09:44:45 want to see some change, and some relief from whatever

09:44:50 problems there are with transit, transportation, but

09:44:53 it's not necessarily this plan.

09:44:55 You would like to see something, some other --

09:44:59 >>> I think this council should put some kind of

09:45:02 roadblocks to the expressway authority until they take

09:45:05 into account reasonable access for the people that live

09:45:10 and work in that area, and to alleviate this bypass

09:45:15 usual you that everybody is worried about.

09:45:18 >> Thank you very much.

09:45:18 >>> Good morning, council.

09:45:25 My name is Michael Hirst, 4007 west Tyson Avenue and

09:45:30 I'm here to speak on item 70.

09:45:33 The elevated Gandy.

09:45:37 Just a couple points.

09:45:41 Evacuation.




09:45:43 The elevated road is a two-lane road east and west.

09:45:46 And I'm assume it has single lane ramp to exit and to

09:45:54 enter on depending on your direction.

09:45:57 So in an evacuation situation, you have four lanes on

09:46:01 Gandy bridge.

09:46:02 Now you are going to try to convert that down to a

09:46:05 single lane, to follow a single lane all the way to the

09:46:08 Crosstown, which still has a single lane ramp.

09:46:12 Eventually, back to a two-lane.

09:46:14 So my question is really how effective is this.

09:46:17 And this is one of the items that the expressway

09:46:21 authority utilizes on your pitch for this project.

09:46:26 A second point is the through traffic.

09:46:31 The definition of the through traffic to some people is

09:46:35 traffic that starts at one point and goes all the way

09:46:38 through to another point.

09:46:41 Well, in the traffic movement counts, TMCs, a

09:46:50 percentage is determined by the number of vehicles that

09:46:53 go through that intersection, divided by the total

09:46:56 number of vehicles that use the intersection.

09:47:00 So if you look -- the only ones that I have are 2005

09:47:03 and 2009.




09:47:05 And the 2005 at the intersection of Gandy and

09:47:08 Westshore, that was a 21% through traffic.

09:47:13 And that was, I believe, on the eastbound movement.

09:47:18 Down at Lois, that number went to 46.6.

09:47:24 But in the report in 2009 at the intersection of

09:47:29 Manhattan, which is approximately a tenth of a mile

09:47:32 west of Lois, that number was 31.7.

09:47:37 So when it's presented, 40% of the total vehicles on

09:47:41 Gandy is through traffic.

09:47:43 Well, it depends on what intersection you are looking

09:47:47 at.

09:47:47 That number can vary from intersection to intersection.

09:47:50 And you can see in the reports, this number grows as

09:47:52 you get closer to the Crosstown.

09:47:57 To me as a resident, the important number is what is

09:48:02 coming from Pinellas County

09:48:04 What is that number?

09:48:06 And of that number, who is really going directly to the

09:48:10 Crosstown?

09:48:11 Some may go beyond that and go directly to Bayshore.

09:48:13 Some may be going to Dale Mabry.

09:48:15 Because there are two entrances to the Crosstown at




09:48:20 Dale Mabry.

09:48:20 One from the east, you go to the light and make a left,

09:48:24 there's another one.

09:48:25 So there's two entrances from that Crosstown.

09:48:29 With the recent completion of the Gandy project, I

09:48:34 drive this every day.

09:48:35 My office is in Bradenton.

09:48:37 So I drive this every day.

09:48:40 I remember the construction sitting in bumper to bumper

09:48:43 traffic on the west side of the hump, and praying that

09:48:48 there wasn't a hock you game because it would be even

09:48:50 worse.

09:48:50 But now I couldn't even tell.

09:48:52 I would go straight through there.

09:48:53 This morning I left my home at 8:05, went to the bank,

09:48:57 got on the Crosstown and sitting here --

09:49:00 (Bell sounds).

09:49:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Time is up, sir.

09:49:03 Council members, our 30 minutes is up.

09:49:06 For public comment.

09:49:07 Would you like to -- in the time that those people who

09:49:11 are going to speak numbered agenda items, just those




09:49:15 that are numbered items that we can speak to, we can

09:49:17 extend to the that.

09:49:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to give everybody a

09:49:20 minute.

09:49:21 I would like to give everybody a minute.

09:49:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?

09:49:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I know there are a few folks who

09:49:35 have been waiting to have their three minutes related

09:49:37 to a specific agenda item.

09:49:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Taking the ones that are numbered on

09:49:42 the agenda, yes.

09:49:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And then maybe the others just a

09:49:45 minute.

09:49:46 I don't know if we can do that or not.

09:49:47 >>GWEN MILLER: The pleasure of council?

09:49:53 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I'm sorry, your rules do

09:49:56 state that those people who don't have an opportunity

09:50:00 to speak do have the option to talk with council at the

09:50:02 end of today's meeting.

09:50:03 However, you are going to be taking certain -- or

09:50:07 having certain discussions that you may wish to have

09:50:09 the benefit of their comments before you hear from




09:50:13 staff.

09:50:14 So it's council's pleasure.

09:50:17 However, normally what you do do is you give preference

09:50:19 to those people who do have items on the agenda, and if

09:50:23 you want to do that for the people who have items which

09:50:25 are numbered on the agenda, you do have that

09:50:27 prerogative as well.

09:50:28 >>MARY MULHERN: I would support you, chairwoman, and

09:50:33 allowing the agenda speakers to have their three

09:50:35 minutes, agendaed item speakers.

09:50:38 Then maybe see how many non-agendaed speakers there are

09:50:42 here.

09:50:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'll second that and I want to

09:50:48 point out brevity.

09:50:51 You can do it succinctly.

09:50:53 We'll know that you are supportive as well.

09:50:57 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second to let

09:50:59 persons who are to speak on a numbered item on the

09:51:01 agenda speak for three minutes.

09:51:03 Other will have to speak with us afterwards for one

09:51:05 minute.

09:51:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Three minutes or less.




09:51:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay, three minutes or less.

09:51:09 When you come up to speak, please tell us which item

09:51:13 number you are speaking on.

09:51:13 >>> My name is Mark Rubio.

09:51:19 I'm a resident and also --

09:51:22 >> Hold on just a moment.

09:51:24 >> Is that by unanimous consent?

09:51:27 There was no vote.

09:51:29 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor?

09:51:30 Opposed?

09:51:31 Thank you.

09:51:31 >> My name is Mark Rubio.

09:51:36 The last time I was here I spoke on behalf of my

09:51:38 opposition.

09:51:39 I am not going to talk about that today.

09:51:41 I am here to represent another business owner on the

09:51:45 design of Tampa who employs a lot of Tampa on Gandy

09:51:47 Boulevard in our community.

09:51:49 He's at a business meeting in Orlando today and

09:51:51 couldn't be here to meet with us this morning.

09:51:54 I just want to let you know that he is absolutely

09:51:57 opposed to it.




09:51:58 He's right there at Lois and Gandy across from the new

09:52:02 WalMart that's going in.

09:52:04 And he stated that the overhead road will ruin the

09:52:08 whole neighborhood.

09:52:09 Who would like to shop underneath a road with the noise

09:52:11 and uncomfortable towering character.

09:52:14 Mr. Stone mentioned that you would be planting flowers

09:52:17 and small bushes.

09:52:18 I believe that they would -- that would not be enough,

09:52:22 there wouldn't be enough sun, because overhead road,

09:52:26 and they would be die and actually look -- if you look

09:52:30 as I mentioned last time, if you go from downtown Tampa

09:52:32 to Ybor City, you sit underneath the Crosstown, it's

09:52:36 just weeds and trash underneath that.

09:52:38 So that's the point.

09:52:38 There's nothing that's going to be able to grow under

09:52:41 the bridge.

09:52:44 Apparently, THEA has taken the position this

09:52:49 neighborhood supports it but the neighborhood is not

09:52:52 supporting it.

09:52:55 Please let this -- this is Michael peskensen's official

09:53:01 opposition to the proposed elevated expressway, and I




09:53:04 want to thank Linda because she came out to our

09:53:06 meeting, our association meeting.

09:53:08 We just haven't gotten a lot of support, and one of the

09:53:11 few that supported us and we appreciate it and anything

09:53:14 that you can do to help us stop this.

09:53:15 We don't want to look at this the rest of our lives.

09:53:18 Thank you.

09:53:18 >>MARY MULHERN: Can I ask you a question?

09:53:24 Is there a Gandy business association or commercial --

09:53:28 >>> There is not.

09:53:28 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.

09:53:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I just wanted to mention one thing

09:53:33 in regard to the businesses, because I think we all

09:53:36 have great concern about businesses across the whole

09:53:38 city, and we don't want to do anything to impact them.

09:53:41 When this issue came up about probably about a year

09:53:46 ago, I told the expressway authority's Executive

09:53:49 Director, I said this council is going to come out

09:53:54 strong against you unless you address the business

09:53:56 issue.

09:53:57 And I told them, I said what do we oh know about this

09:54:03 impact of the project on the businesses?




09:54:05 And as you know, basically, I convinced them, I said we

09:54:09 need to do a study, an independent study of the impact

09:54:12 of this on the businesses.

09:54:13 So they commissioned a study from the University of

09:54:15 South Florida.

09:54:16 Then I believe the university independent.

09:54:22 I think it cost the expressway authority at least

09:54:25 $50,000 to give to the university.

09:54:28 The university did the study.

09:54:29 The study, as you know -- and I won't go over the

09:54:33 details of the study.

09:54:33 The study is available.

09:54:34 The study came out kind of a wash, said some

09:54:38 businesses, it would impact some businesses negatively

09:54:41 because of the pass-through traffic, miss some of the

09:54:44 traffic going overhead, the impulse buyers, I guess it

09:54:47 would be, and then other businesses actually would do

09:54:50 better because right now there are some people who

09:54:54 avoid shopping Gandy because Gandy has been very

09:54:58 crowded.

09:55:00 Over the years.

09:55:02 I'm not making up the study, I'm just reporting a very




09:55:05 cursory summary of the study.

09:55:06 But, anyway, I just wanted -- you know it, but I wanted

09:55:11 folks who are watching to be aware that study is

09:55:13 available, if they want to take a look at it from the

09:55:16 expressway authority.

09:55:17 At the end of the day, I think it came up with a --

09:55:22 some jobs would be lost, but some jobs regained

09:55:25 depending on what type of businesses we are talking

09:55:27 about.

09:55:27 And so, anyway, I was pleased that they did the study.

09:55:33 It's not going to thrill the people who might be losing

09:55:36 their jobs, but the people who might be gaining jobs

09:55:38 would be happy.

09:55:39 >>> We didn't find anywhere in the country where they

09:55:45 put a structure like this where the businesses have

09:55:48 thrived.

09:55:48 You know, WalMart is a destination.

09:55:50 Hooters may be a destination.

09:55:52 But all the other businesses -- forget about me being a

09:55:55 business owner there.

09:55:55 I'm a resident of that community.

09:55:57 And when I leave my residence, I want to be able to go




09:56:00 out to restaurants, I want my wife to get her hair

09:56:03 done, whatever it may be.

09:56:04 So we don't need to drive to the other side of town,

09:56:07 and which really was appalling, for them to say that it

09:56:10 was going to be like Main Street, to build a bridge

09:56:14 like that.

09:56:15 It's not going to be Main Street.

09:56:16 It won't be Channelside.

09:56:18 It will be an ugly structure we have to look at for the

09:56:21 rest of our lives that nothing will grow underneath.

09:56:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I understand.

09:56:27 >>> Good morning.

09:56:28 My name is Rob Curry, Executive Director of atheists of

09:56:32 Florida, 3614 south Manhattan.

09:56:34 >>GWEN MILLER: For which number item are you speaking

09:56:36 on?

09:56:36 >> The numbered item, I'm getting to that, number 66.

09:56:40 And I want to put my support of the idea of looking

09:56:44 closely at the fees for parks, because it is a

09:56:48 regressive fee that adversely affects families.

09:56:53 Especially families with more than one child have to

09:56:56 pay $25 per child.




09:56:59 While it may not be an issue for people who have that

09:57:01 discretionary income, it's a very serious issue for

09:57:04 people who are living paycheck to paycheck who do not

09:57:07 have the luxury, and it's also a social issue, because

09:57:12 if the children are not at the parks, then where are

09:57:14 they going to be?

09:57:16 The other issue that I have, of course, I would be

09:57:19 happy to come back as I did two weeks ago and speak at

09:57:21 the end of the commission, and I'm very interested

09:57:23 about the status of the letter that I gave --

09:57:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Sir, you are on item 66.

09:57:31 You still need to talk on item 66.

09:57:33 >>> Sure.

09:57:34 I wanted to mention that briefly.

09:57:36 That's basically what I have to say regarding item 66.

09:57:38 I look forward to speaking with you later this

09:57:40 afternoon.

09:57:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.

09:57:43 >>> Spencer Kass on behalf of Virginia park

09:57:49 neighborhood association.

09:57:51 I want to state for the record that we support our

09:57:55 friend in Gandy.




09:57:57 They don't want the elevated road.

09:57:58 We don't wants the elevated road.

09:58:00 It's about our position to support other associations.

09:58:02 Their decision does not have an adverse impact on our

09:58:06 neighborhood.

09:58:06 We care about the businesses there.

09:58:07 Some of our people work on Gandy.

09:58:09 So we care about what happens to them.

09:58:11 So if they are opposed to it, we will be opposed to it.

09:58:14 Next, we have item 64 on your agenda.

09:58:18 This is about the franchise agreement.

09:58:21 It was supposed to be a report on where we stand in the

09:58:24 city on the lighting agreement.

09:58:25 That's what council had discussed.

09:58:27 The response doesn't address the lighting agreement.

09:58:29 The response talks about everything except for the

09:58:31 lighting agreement.

09:58:32 It's very simple.

09:58:34 We would like a lighting agreement in place, yes or no,

09:58:37 and if there is, does at dress -- something that will

09:58:40 save the city a lot of money, something that the

09:58:42 residents in East Tampa and West Tampa are interested




09:58:44 in.

09:58:45 And in these constrained budgets times a way to provide

09:58:48 better service for lower costs.

09:58:50 So I don't understand why we can't get a straight

09:58:52 answer from the administration whether they entered an

09:58:56 agreement or they don't.

09:58:58 Also, we are requesting two weeks ago you got a report

09:59:00 on barbed wire behind fire house number nine in West

09:59:04 Tampa.

09:59:05 It's covered in barbed wire.

09:59:07 That was not listed in the report.

09:59:11 We are asking that council get involved.

09:59:14 We asked the administration to move the barbed wire

09:59:17 there.

09:59:17 There's in movement on the part of the administration.

09:59:19 We are asking for council to get involved and make

09:59:22 arrangements to remove the barbed wire.

09:59:24 They can have whatever security they want.

09:59:26 They already have a fence.

09:59:27 By the way, the barbed wire is missing so you have

09:59:32 barbed wire then a missing section.

09:59:34 The whole thing doesn't make any sense.




09:59:35 We are asking the administration to remove it from that

09:59:37 fire house.

09:59:38 If you could help us with that, we would appreciate it.

09:59:40 Thank you.

09:59:40 >> Good morning.

09:59:47 Thank you for let speaking with us.

09:59:50 I want to speak with you regarding item 70. My

09:59:52 business is located at 4707 Gandy Boulevard.

09:59:54 So the expressway will go right over my business.

09:59:57 Six months ago, when the construction stopped, I hired

10:00:00 two more people.

10:00:05 In January, employment increased, I was still looking

10:00:08 to higher hire two or three more people within six

10:00:11 months.

10:00:11 The expressway, I get a lot of walk-in business, a lot

10:00:16 of Pinellas business.

10:00:19 6% of my business is Pinellas.

10:00:21 I am not going to be able to employ more people.

10:00:23 I might have to lay off people.

10:00:25 I am going to pay less unemployment taxes which will

10:00:28 affect everybody.

10:00:28 I know it will affect all the vendors I do business




10:00:30 with.

10:00:31 My business goes down.

10:00:32 Less people to hire.

10:00:34 Less taxes he would all pay.

10:00:36 Less vendors.

10:00:37 Their business is going to go down, too.

10:00:39 So I'm opposed, against it.

10:00:42 >> We need her name for the record.

10:00:44 >> I'm in insurance business.

10:00:46 I own a real estate agency.

10:00:47 >> Put your name on the record, please.

10:00:49 >> Gloria Ossi.

10:00:51 >> Thank you.

10:00:52 >> My name is Eileen Malo.

10:00:58 As an Air Force family we came to Tampa in 1955.

10:01:01 We purchased our home south of Gandy in 1956 and my

10:01:05 husband retired in 1968.

10:01:07 I also was military.

10:01:09 So this has been home to us most of our lives.

10:01:12 Over these few years, very few agencies have really

10:01:16 listened to our needs.

10:01:17 They have always gone ahead and done whatever was




10:01:20 planned.

10:01:20 We did not want the money wasted on anything in Gandy

10:01:24 for the future.

10:01:25 Yes, Gandy does look nice.

10:01:27 But they never stopped to realize that Gandy is our

10:01:31 only way out, there's water on three sides of us.

10:01:37 Now instead of having a number of street ways, and ways

10:01:42 out, we have only Westshore, Manhattan and Dale Mabry,

10:01:45 like we are penned in.

10:01:46 If they go to the elevated expressway, it would be like

10:01:49 looking out and seeing a larger -- St. Pete traffic has

10:01:55 never been a real problem for us.

10:01:57 I have crossed Gandy many times and have no problems

10:01:59 with it.

10:02:00 Rest assured none of the folks working on the proposal

10:02:03 for Gandy elevated live here.

10:02:05 If they did, they would be with our side.

10:02:08 Don't let them ruin our neighborhoods anymore.

10:02:11 It would break my heart to look out my front door or

10:02:14 front yard and drive north on any street south of

10:02:17 Gandy, and no longer see our connection to Tampa or the

10:02:20 world.




10:02:21 We would just see the elevated expressway.

10:02:24 And I seriously doubt that many people using that

10:02:28 expressway would pay a toll for such a short distance.

10:02:31 We don't need it.

10:02:33 We don't want it.

10:02:34 And please help us.

10:02:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.

10:02:40 >> Good morning.

10:02:48 My name is Debra white.

10:02:53 I'm on item 68, not 70.

10:02:56 My purpose today again is two-fold.

10:02:58 The first being the negotiation of the current

10:03:00 independent contract agreement.

10:03:02 I delivered to your offices yesterday a letter

10:03:04 supporting documentation outlining the need to revisit

10:03:07 the language.

10:03:13 Two of the top concerns of contract instructors.

10:03:16 I will update what the staff provided yesterday

10:03:20 afternoon, the proposed language on indemnification.

10:03:24 However they are not the only matters that should be

10:03:26 addressed.

10:03:27 It appears this contract may have been prepared from a




10:03:30 contract bid type contract.

10:03:32 The Parks and Recreation Department decided to

10:03:34 completely revamp this program.

10:03:37 We weren't given any input whatsoever at that time.

10:03:42 When the city elects to change a zoning code in the

10:03:46 police department contract, you have workshops, you

10:03:48 have meetings, and the public is allowed to speak.

10:03:52 I would specifically request council allow us the

10:03:54 opportunity to publicly speak at the end of staff

10:03:56 presentation today, or minimally require the department

10:04:00 to meet with us once during the day and once during the

10:04:05 evening to hear our concerns.

10:04:06 My second point is regarding -- councilman Miranda made

10:04:11 a comment at the last meeting that fees for not city

10:04:16 residents are like is hundred percent.

10:04:18 I have been out of school a long time and not knowing

10:04:20 the amount I, the increase for unincorporated city

10:04:24 residents is a 767% increase over what the city

10:04:31 residents pay.

10:04:32 767%.

10:04:34 This increase directly affects the number of

10:04:38 participants at your camp program, especially those




10:04:40 located on the borderlines of the city.

10:04:43 As demonstrated in the handouts from the program, it

10:04:46 had a dramatic drop in attendance, just since the

10:04:52 implementation of this park fee.

10:04:55 You have not only lost the fees but also the

10:05:03 participation fees of these people.

10:05:04 You can have a 100 percent increase for non-city

10:05:08 residents at $30.

10:05:10 A reasonable amount, bringing people in, helping

10:05:12 support your programs, helping support your budget, and

10:05:16 moving forward.

10:05:17 I appreciate your time and consideration.

10:05:21 And again I urge you to allow public comment at the end

10:05:23 of the staff reports of this matter.

10:05:26 Thank you.

10:05:26 >>MARY MULHERN: Can I ask you one question?

10:05:31 Have you signed that contract?

10:05:33 >>> I am a contract instructor.

10:05:35 I received the contract on the 11th.

10:05:42 Our program is Tae Kwon Do and we have national level

10:05:46 athletes in the competition, and we could not afford

10:05:49 not to sign.




10:05:50 >> Are you the one that gave us this?

10:05:52 >>> Yes, I am.

10:05:52 >>MARY MULHERN: So you haven't signed the contract?

10:05:55 >>> No, I have actually.

10:05:56 The contract is in there.

10:05:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Signed it under protest.

10:06:03 >>> Yes.

10:06:03 >>> Good morning.

10:06:13 My name is Diane Hart, 5006 east Cumberland drive.

10:06:18 I am CEO of East Tampa business civic association,

10:06:21 serve as president of the community advisory committee

10:06:24 over the Jackson Heights, also sit on the NFL board.

10:06:29 As you all know, I came to you a couple weeks ago to

10:06:32 talk about the increase in fees.

10:06:33 On Tuesday, I had the opportunity along with Betty

10:06:36 Wiggins and Maureen Copeland to have a meeting with

10:06:40 Karen Palus.

10:06:42 I'm somewhat disturbed by our meeting simply because

10:06:46 when we ask what can we do to rectify this, one year

10:06:52 ago paying $75 for the entire summer now. A parent

10:06:55 with a scholarship or the sliding fee scale, it is now

10:07:00 $250 for ten weeks.




10:07:03 That is not affordable.

10:07:05 Second and third child, $20 a piece, and that's with

10:07:08 the sliding fee scale.

10:07:09 So we are talking about approximately $600 for a family

10:07:14 of three to go to the park for the summer.

10:07:17 Puff four children, it's $1,000 to go to the park.

10:07:20 My suggestion to Ms. Palus was, can we possibly

10:07:23 consider rolling back these fees for the summer?

10:07:26 I understand you need to make your budget shortfall.

10:07:31 I sit on the budget review committee.

10:07:32 I'm very much aware that we have a huge budget deficit.

10:07:36 But do we do it on the backs of our children?

10:07:38 Do we put our children in our community out on the

10:07:41 street?

10:07:42 I told her about the incident over at Fairoaks.

10:07:45 If you go by Fairoaks today you have about 38 children

10:07:47 in the park, and you have 50 to 60 on the streets

10:07:52 throughout the community.

10:07:54 What I was going to do today was take a picture but did

10:07:58 not have an opportunity.

10:07:59 I need you to see it for yourselves to see the children

10:08:01 hanging around who cannot go to the parks because the




10:08:03 parents cannot afford it.

10:08:05 So she said to me, well, if we roll back the fees --

10:08:10 and I'll take a look at that -- we'll have to close the

10:08:12 center.

10:08:13 Well, I would propose you close a few centers and get

10:08:15 all the children off the street and make them go to one

10:08:18 particular park.

10:08:19 And I said to her, I'm going to council.

10:08:21 I appreciate you having a meeting with us, but I

10:08:24 cannot -- I cannot support your fee increase.

10:08:27 When we take a look at these fees, this is crazy.

10:08:30 If you don't get a sliding fee scale, if you are

10:08:33 unfortunate, it is $55 for your first child and $50 for

10:08:38 each additional child.

10:08:39 Who can afford to play in the park at these prices?

10:08:42 Nobody.

10:08:43 If you go to any of our parks today, you will see that

10:08:46 we are down probably about 60%.

10:08:49 She said, well, we expected a 40% return.

10:08:52 So I said, okay, what is it?

10:08:55 It's 55% city-wide.

10:08:56 I don't want to talk about city-wide.




10:08:58 I want to know what it is in East Tampa.

10:09:00 It is 37% on a return in East Tampa.

10:09:03 And that's not exact, because we estimated that number.

10:09:08 Nobody can tell me that the recreation department as

10:09:11 large as the City of Tampa, does not have exact

10:09:14 numbers.

10:09:15 Somebody needs to take a look at this.

10:09:16 It is not fair to the children.

10:09:18 Forget about the poor parents who are going to have to

10:09:20 leave them at home all summer.

10:09:22 Think about all of us who own businesses out in East

10:09:25 Tampa.

10:09:25 Are those of us who live in East Tampa and all around

10:09:29 the city that are going to have to worry about what

10:09:30 happens to these thousands of children who are going to

10:09:33 be on the streets this summer.

10:09:34 This is crucial.

10:09:36 I heard Mr. Miranda when he said, well, maybe we made a

10:09:40 mistake.

10:09:41 I served opt budget review.

10:09:42 Maybe I made a mistake as well.

10:09:44 Maybe I wasn't paying close attention.




10:09:46 But I assure you we have to do something and all I can

10:09:48 see is a rate roll back to something reasonable.

10:09:51 Thank you.

10:09:51 (Bell sounds)

10:09:54 >> My name is Glen Shull, west San Jose street.

10:10:02 I was up until February an independent instructor for

10:10:07 tennis.

10:10:08 Three points I would like to be address.

10:10:10 One is Karen Palus late yesterday made a revision to

10:10:15 the attorneys on the indemnification.

10:10:19 All she did was list a whole bunch of activities if we

10:10:22 did it we would be liable.

10:10:23 Yes, I think any action or omission by an independent

10:10:28 instructor, we are liable for it.

10:10:29 That's why we carry a million dollar of insurance on

10:10:31 the city and a million dollars on ourselves.

10:10:34 Actually, I carry up to six million on myself.

10:10:36 The points, indemnification, anything arising from our

10:10:41 program, anything that a participant gets hurt on in

10:10:45 the facility, we are responsible for, shouldn't be

10:10:48 responsible except the things we directly contribute

10:10:50 to.




10:10:51 Also, the accounting principles and the audit, just

10:10:55 tell us what documents to keep track of and for how

10:10:58 long, please.

10:10:59 And then liability beyond termination of our contract.

10:11:03 And this is just a symptom.

10:11:05 Karen Palus says, we can't find liability on the

10:11:13 termination of contract.

10:11:14 I said all you have to do is click on fine and write

10:11:17 the word termination there.

10:11:18 I find five within 30 seconds.

10:11:21 And they couldn't find it.

10:11:22 Second point is, one size doesn't fit all.

10:11:27 Mrs. Saul-Sena, would you be satisfied with a size 22

10:11:30 dress?

10:11:31 Mr. Miranda, would you be satisfied with a size 46

10:11:34 suit?

10:11:36 I don't think so.

10:11:38 They put on us where the city is paying a contractor a

10:11:43 million and a half dollars.

10:11:43 Yes, they have all kinds of liability.

10:11:45 We supply money to the city.

10:11:47 I pay the city almost $4800 last year just to teach




10:11:50 tennis for the city.

10:11:52 The third thing is, I get the attitude of works being

10:11:57 done by the county Parks Department but the attitude.

10:11:59 They have not answered phone calls, they have not

10:12:01 answered e-mails.

10:12:04 When Karen Palus came on, was it, February two weeks

10:12:08 ago and said -- when the recreation people said, we

10:12:11 have lost 60 to 70% of our participants, my program has

10:12:16 lost 100 percent of the participants in the program.

10:12:19 And she said, we expected that.

10:12:20 Is that the attitude we want our leadership in the

10:12:24 Parks Department to be running this city's parks

10:12:26 program?

10:12:26 I don't think so.

10:12:28 And I agree with what was said two weeks ago, when they

10:12:30 said, we'll pay for it through the parks or through the

10:12:33 police.

10:12:34 It costs 36 to $40,000 a year to support a person in

10:12:38 prison.

10:12:38 I can send someone to Florida State or University of

10:12:41 Florida or USF, books and spending money for less than

10:12:45 that.




10:12:46 Thank you.

10:12:46 >> I'm Mark Hamberg, president of East Tampa civic

10:13:05 association.

10:13:05 I'm angry because of these park fees that have been put

10:13:10 on the children of East Tampa.

10:13:17 The economy has been lousy lately.

10:13:19 It's created unprecedented stress obviously in both

10:13:22 government services and on the private sector.

10:13:24 However, this economy is of our making and not of our

10:13:28 children's.

10:13:28 We need to give voice to our children and provide them

10:13:31 the services that they deserve.

10:13:36 They don't have the voice or the power of a large

10:13:40 union.

10:13:40 They are only represented by us and you.

10:13:45 So on a regular basis, in my business that I have parks

10:13:49 and recreation people come by and solicit for funds to

10:13:52 support programs in the city-run parks, you know, I

10:13:59 just don't see why that should be, and I see stress in

10:14:01 the eyes and the faces of those that solicit for these

10:14:05 funds.

10:14:07 We also have submitted, or Diane submitted to you a




10:14:10 letter, and although it has been written anonymously, I

10:14:14 would like to read it into the record.

10:14:16 It was composed and written by a Parks and Recreation

10:14:19 Department employee, and I think it speaks volumes

10:14:24 about the morale within the department.

10:14:27 And about the conditions surrounding trying to assist

10:14:30 the children that so rightly deserve assistance.

10:14:35 It starts: Dear City of Tampa council member.

10:14:38 I'm writing not only as a concerned citizen but as a

10:14:41 concerned employee of the City of Tampa, Parks and

10:14:43 Recreation Department.

10:14:45 I watched the City Council meetings on February 18,

10:14:48 2010 where citizens of Tampa were there to express

10:14:50 their feelings about fees that started after October

10:14:54 1st, 2009.

10:14:55 In my opinion the new fee structure has resulted in

10:14:57 many programs to the Parks and Recreation Department

10:14:59 being canceled and the children of our communities are

10:15:01 suffering.

10:15:02 I understand that all departments within the city are

10:15:04 businesses, and I think the parks and recreation

10:15:07 administrators make a few non-community based business




10:15:10 decisions.

10:15:11 Our department was separated into four areas, north,

10:15:14 south, east, and west, and no formal meetings were held

10:15:19 to inform the communities or parents about the newly

10:15:22 decided fees in either area, or how this would affect

10:15:26 the communities.

10:15:26 This was not a professional business decision, in my

10:15:29 opinion, this is why I feel the competition out there

10:15:32 such as boys and girls club, YMCA, Hillsborough County

10:15:36 Parks and Recreation Department, are winning right now.

10:15:39 Prior to the new structure the City of Tampa parks and

10:15:41 recreation, the parks and programs kept an abundant

10:15:46 amount of activities for children.

10:15:49 Today there are huge or no participants in the parks

10:15:51 and programs.

10:15:52 And these programs are the cornerstone of the Parks and

10:15:54 Recreation Departments.

10:15:56 This past year, cheerleading was dropped from over 500

10:15:59 participants to less than 100 throughout the entire

10:16:01 city.

10:16:03 Also, football and basketball programs were eliminated

10:16:06 due to extra fees.




10:16:07 So what alternatives do children in the communities

10:16:09 have?

10:16:11 My second concern is that two years ago we were told

10:16:14 the park was in a hiring freeze and only hired in

10:16:18 critical and needed positions.

10:16:19 In it last things year things have changed, hiring five

10:16:23 managers, 14 supervisors, 25 science advisors, 17 site

10:16:29 coordinators with salaries ranging from 35 to 100,000 a

10:16:33 year.

10:16:33 (Bell sounds).

10:16:34 >> Can I finish the letter?

10:16:36 >> We have the letter.

10:16:37 We'll read it.

10:16:38 Thank you.

10:16:38 >> My name is Ron Murray.

10:16:47 Pastor of freedom Baptist church, 5118-17th Avenue.

10:16:53 In reference to this park condition.

10:16:59 We came into that community probably about a year ago.

10:17:04 And when we arrived, we came there with a vision. We

10:17:08 went through and canvassed the community, talking about

10:17:11 how can we make a difference in this community?

10:17:16 And what can we do?




10:17:18 And the main thing everybody in the community came up

10:17:20 with, they were talking about the kids.

10:17:24 Were concerned about the kids in the community, were

10:17:26 concerned about the kids being on the street and so

10:17:30 forth.

10:17:30 And so since we have been in the community, we have

10:17:33 been making efforts to connect with the community

10:17:36 center in order to create an opportunity to mentor

10:17:40 these kids as well.

10:17:42 And our understanding is that the Oak Park community

10:17:46 center is going to be closed due to this lack of

10:17:53 participation based on this low income thing.

10:17:56 And so that is our concern.

10:17:59 And we really would like an opportunity to sincerely

10:18:05 make an effort to turn things around in this community.

10:18:08 And there's some people who will come after me, who

10:18:11 will explain some of the ins and outs of what's

10:18:14 happening in the community, and why we really need this

10:18:16 Oak Park community center to stay open.

10:18:19 Thank you.

10:18:27 >> My name is Jewell Davis.

10:18:29 I reside at 6605 orangewood terrace.




10:18:32 My concern is the fee of the recs and park.

10:18:37 I am a foster mom, a mother of four children.

10:18:40 My children are grown and gone.

10:18:42 But I have three foster children in my home.

10:18:47 I paid last year $36 a year for those three kids.

10:18:52 It went from $36 a year to $3,600 a year, plus $60 for

10:19:03 cards because I had to pay $15 for each child.

10:19:06 I just plead with the council, please take a look at

10:19:09 the fees.

10:19:10 There is no way, no parent, working or non-working, can

10:19:15 afford that fee.

10:19:17 What I see is going to happen is we are going to have

10:19:20 kids on the streets this summer having nothing to do.

10:19:24 I go to Jackson Heights facilities.

10:19:27 I was there on Thursday.

10:19:29 There was ten young men wanted to come and just play

10:19:32 basketball, was unable to do so because they did not

10:19:36 have the $15 fee.

10:19:40 Someone needs to take a wide look at what's going on

10:19:43 with the fee.

10:19:45 I also -- our athletic director for youth football.

10:19:51 We have to pay $15 for each child on that team.




10:19:54 We have a total of five teams with 35 kids on each

10:19:58 team.

10:19:59 Do the math.

10:20:00 That's ridiculous.

10:20:02 No way these parents can pay that fee.

10:20:05 On top of that, we have to pay to use the field to

10:20:10 practice now, I was told.

10:20:12 And on top of that, we pay for that field if we use the

10:20:18 center field.

10:20:20 Someone needs to take a look.

10:20:22 I'm a taxpayer.

10:20:23 I worked for 33 years as a supervisor, manager, and a

10:20:28 social worker.

10:20:29 So what I see, the city is putting their overhead and

10:20:40 going to put the burden on another agency.

10:20:42 I can see working poor families not working because

10:20:47 that their children don't have anyplace to go, so they

10:20:50 are staying home and collect AMDC and food stamps.

10:20:54 And who is paying for that?

10:20:56 Thank you.

10:20:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ma'am, I had a question.

10:21:06 In the bigger picture we are going to be wrestling with




10:21:10 in a little while with Mrs. Palus, and I'm not positive

10:21:14 there's any good answers at all, but in regard to your

10:21:19 foster children, when we spoke to Mrs. Pal bus this

10:21:22 previously, she said that there was a nonprofit called

10:21:26 friends of the parks that has a scholarship program.

10:21:30 Did anybody tell you about that, that could help

10:21:35 defray --

10:21:36 >>> Yes.

10:21:36 I'm talking about the -- yes, these were foster

10:21:40 children.

10:21:40 She said, yes.

10:21:41 But at least you would have -- the least you can pay is

10:21:45 $25 per child.

10:21:46 >> And then Karen told me this week that there's also

10:21:50 on top of that a scholarship program that can virtually

10:21:54 eliminate that fee, also.

10:21:56 >> No, I didn't know about that fee.

10:21:59 Who should I contact?

10:22:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is anybody from parks here?

10:22:04 Just stick around for a little bit, if you can.

10:22:08 We'll get you some information on it.

10:22:09 >>> Okay, thank you.




10:22:11 >>> Good morning council members.

10:22:16 My name is Victoria Hunter, and he Rye reside at 5101

10:22:21 east 17th Avenue in the area known as Florence

10:22:26 Villa and Oak Park community.

10:22:30 Since I-4 was built our small area was cut off from any

10:22:33 benefits afforded to the west side of the interstate.

10:22:38 We have not only been neglected but also forgotten.

10:22:41 For the last nine and a half years, our park was

10:22:45 allowed to run down due to the lack of leadership.

10:22:47 We have not formed a new civic -- now formed a new

10:22:51 civic association, a new president, slate of officers,

10:22:54 and a crime watch program.

10:22:56 We hold our meetings at the center, and lately we

10:22:59 sponsored a spaghetti dinner for the neighborhood.

10:23:02 The park offers stability and training for the

10:23:05 children.

10:23:07 If this park is closed, the children in our area will

10:23:09 have to no place to go.

10:23:12 They will roam the streets, get into all sorts of

10:23:15 problems, and when they are adults, they'll land in

10:23:17 jail.

10:23:19 At the outset the city will save money by closing parks




10:23:22 but in the long run the city is going to pay more.

10:23:26 I feel strongly that the closing of this center would

10:23:29 be a terrible disservice.

10:23:30 Thank you.

10:23:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.

10:23:32 >> Good morning.

10:23:38 My name is Noreen Copeland Miller, 1911 east Chelsea

10:23:44 street in Tampa.

10:23:45 I'm the first vice-president of the East Tampa business

10:23:48 and civic association.

10:23:49 I would like to ask if our members and residents of the

10:23:53 East Tampa community would stand.

10:23:56 Thank you.

10:24:00 We are here this morning because we are very concerned

10:24:02 about the fee scale.

10:24:05 And we certainly would like to ask you all once again

10:24:07 to reconsider that fee scale.

10:24:10 As Diane Hart shared with you, we met with Karen Palus,

10:24:15 asking her to come to a happy median with the fee

10:24:19 scale, and I was very saddened that she was not even

10:24:23 willing to consider looking at the fee scale and to me

10:24:28 I feel threatened that she was going up the centers




10:24:32 what she indicated to us.

10:24:33 But she talked about the friends of the recreation

10:24:36 department and told us that they had $150,000 in a

10:24:41 budget.

10:24:44 We asked how many people would that be.

10:24:46 She said could have maybe 64 children.

10:24:50 Right now in East Tampa, I can tell you when you get

10:24:53 off from work, I can hardly come down Chelsea because

10:24:56 the streets the kids are playing in the streets, the

10:24:59 young men, the teenagers are playing football, we are

10:25:02 not able to get in our driveways.

10:25:05 I am very concerned because when I shared some of the

10:25:08 things after being born in Tampa and living here for

10:25:11 over 50 years, I have never experienced a thing of this

10:25:15 nature.

10:25:15 This is a public facility.

10:25:18 We pay taxes.

10:25:19 My taxes went up on my house in East Tampa.

10:25:22 But she was not even amenable to looking at any of

10:25:26 that.

10:25:26 But she did share with us about the new reorganization

10:25:30 of her staff, and how there were no supervisors in the




10:25:33 parks and recs before she came.

10:25:37 And you can have supervisors in an empty building,

10:25:40 because that's where we are heading, because these

10:25:43 families cannot afford to go to a park during the

10:25:45 summer, after school, our kids are heading down a road

10:25:48 of no return.

10:25:50 I come this morning pleading with you all to please

10:25:52 reconsider that fee schedule at the park.

10:25:55 At least give the folks the opportunity to prepare for

10:26:03 what we have right now because when I look at the

10:26:04 difference there's over 150% profit.

10:26:07 I hate to think that we are riding on the backs of

10:26:09 children to make our budgets right in this city.

10:26:13 I am really sad at this point.

10:26:15 But I certainly know that this council will revisit

10:26:17 that and do the right thing.

10:26:19 Thank you very much.

10:26:19 >>> Good morning.

10:26:27 My name is Sheila Murray.

10:26:28 And I am the pastor of freedom missionary Baptist

10:26:34 church which is at 5118 east 17th Avenue.

10:26:37 I'm also the newly-elected vice-president of the




10:26:41 Florence Villa Beasley Oak Park civic association.

10:26:46 We were just notified last week that our community park

10:26:49 is -- center is scheduled to close, and that the drop

10:26:55 in attendance has been because of these rate increase.

10:26:59 That's why services as a safe haven for single parents

10:27:04 whose children attend Oak Park elementary school, as

10:27:08 well as the children in the neighborhood, within a

10:27:12 one-mile radius, we have registered 30 sexual

10:27:16 offenders, four sexual predators.

10:27:20 If these children dosh not have a safe place to go,

10:27:24 they are left to roam the neighborhood.

10:27:27 Many of the children that did attend the park this past

10:27:31 year are no longer attending.

10:27:33 We see them getting off the bus, walking through the

10:27:36 church parking lot to go home, again within a one-mile

10:27:41 radius we have a total of 34 sexual offenders and

10:27:46 predators.

10:27:50 My parents work.

10:27:51 They are low income.

10:27:52 But they are working to stay off of the public

10:27:56 assistance system.

10:27:58 They are picking up their children at five or six p.m.




10:28:03 If children are getting off of the buses 2:15, 2:30, do

10:28:08 the time line.

10:28:10 We hear the news daily.

10:28:12 I get Amber alerts on my phone.

10:28:15 It does not take long for a child to disappear.

10:28:20 And they don't necessarily have to be outs of their

10:28:22 area.

10:28:24 There are three churches in our neighborhood.

10:28:26 We are one.

10:28:29 In the near future two of those churches are planning

10:28:31 to move, so we will still be the only one in the area,

10:28:35 and we have committed to partnering with the recreation

10:28:39 center to mentor these young people.

10:28:42 We have we are working with these young people, going

10:28:46 to businesses, to seek financial support for the

10:28:49 program so it offsets what the parents pay.

10:28:57 Ware asking that you please re reconsider because all

10:28:59 communities are not equal.

10:29:01 Thank you.

10:29:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Ma'am?

10:29:05 How many children are we talking about?

10:29:07 Are we talking about 50 kids or 200 kids or 20




10:29:10 children?

10:29:11 >>> There were, when we came into the community, a

10:29:13 minimum of 50 kids, full time, and then some -- and

10:29:19 they also had the summer program, and they had more

10:29:22 children in the summer.

10:29:23 I don't have the exact numbers right now.

10:29:25 When we did the Christmas wish list, where we held

10:29:27 mentoring and we provided gifts for those children, we

10:29:31 went from 45 children last year to 16.

10:29:35 >> So a total cost we are talking about, let's say 50

10:29:39 kids, would be $750 for everybody to have the $15 to be

10:29:43 a member of the parks?

10:29:46 >>> Yes.

10:29:47 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to say that from the

10:29:51 Parks Department I have these numbers.

10:29:53 The average daily attendance at Oak Park in 2009 was

10:29:58 65.

10:29:59 And the average daily attendance now is 15.

10:30:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker.

10:30:09 >>> Good morning.

10:30:13 My name is Tatiana Denson, northeast Bay Street located

10:30:19 in East Tampa.




10:30:20 I come here this morning on behalf of East Tampa in

10:30:23 support of item number 68.

10:30:26 The increase of the park and rec fees.

10:30:30 I know that you all have heard from everyone saying

10:30:33 basically the same thing and that is what the outcome

10:30:35 of our children will be if the park fees either not

10:30:38 reduced, raised, our not given a chance to prepare for

10:30:42 them.

10:30:42 I would like to say that regardless of anything, I

10:30:45 don't have any statistics, the I don't have any

10:30:47 numbers, I don't have any numerical data.

10:30:51 What I do have though is a request for you all to put

10:30:54 yourselves in these parents' shoes.

10:30:56 That's what I do have.

10:30:58 Although it may not directly affect you, it still will

10:31:01 affect you as I indicated the last time that I was

10:31:04 here.

10:31:05 We need to reconsider and put ourselves in these

10:31:08 parents' shoes and not just the parents of the east

10:31:13 park, also in support of them not closings as that is

10:31:16 the park that my children attended for several years.

10:31:19 They should not have to go out and solicit money from




10:31:23 businesses that are already struggling in this tough

10:31:25 economy.

10:31:26 You all are aware of the economy.

10:31:28 We are aware of the economy.

10:31:29 But the economy should not make the kids aware of it.

10:31:34 If we can do something else such as raise the fees, or

10:31:38 possibly cut the fees in half, there will have to be a

10:31:42 happy median where if not anyone can be happy at least

10:31:46 the children won't have to suffer.

10:31:48 Not only will the children suffer as everyone else

10:31:50 indicated today, but if you all don't do something

10:31:52 about it, there will be no future for you all, because

10:31:56 who do you think will need to take care of you all when

10:31:58 you are older or when I'm older or whoever are? As

10:32:02 they say, the children are our future.

10:32:03 And I am not understanding why the council or whomever

10:32:06 is not taking this seriously, and to do what it takes

10:32:11 to ensure our future.

10:32:12 It's not just our future, that we live in East Tampa.

10:32:15 It's your future as well.

10:32:17 So I hope you all will consider not raising fees for

10:32:19 the parents.




10:32:21 I hope you will consider not closing Oak Park down and

10:32:24 to find another way, because again as I said last time,

10:32:26 when there is a will, there is away, and I know there

10:32:29 is a better bay to way to do this, and it's not for

10:32:35 these children to suffer the consequences.

10:32:36 Thank you.

10:32:41 >>> Good morning.

10:32:42 My name is Gary Shepherd, I'm at 3422 southeast drive,

10:32:46 and I'm here today speaking on behalf of the nonprofit

10:32:49 Hillsborough County tennis association about the

10:32:52 crackers agreement, the parks and rec independent

10:32:55 contractors agreement.

10:32:56 And from the tennis community's point of view I would

10:33:00 like to reiterate that a couple of years ago when the

10:33:02 city got quit operations at Hillsborough community

10:33:07 college that saved about $400,000 a year according to

10:33:10 be city numbers at that time.

10:33:12 So from the tennis community's point of view, the

10:33:16 tennis has already given at the office, so to speak,

10:33:18 when it comes to savings.

10:33:21 Also, as Mr. Shull noted awhile ago, this is

10:33:25 instructors, independent end instructors actually




10:33:28 provide operating funds to the city, and to, I think,

10:33:32 just anyway the Hillsborough County tennis association

10:33:35 would like to say, anything that council can do to make

10:33:37 the contract more friendly, and amenable to instructors

10:33:40 is great.

10:33:41 Good instruction, low cost, instruction is very

10:33:43 important, in all activities, but of course from tennis

10:33:47 point of view particularly.

10:33:49 And a specific idea, instead of using gap accounting

10:33:55 principles, if the city would just create a form, a

10:34:00 simplified form that would allow the county just to be

10:34:04 done according to the city needs, that would eliminate

10:34:07 a pretty onerous provision in the contract.

10:34:10 That's one thought.

10:34:11 And thank you for your time.

10:34:18 >>> Good morning.

10:34:19 Johnny Richardson, also a member of freedom missionary

10:34:23 Baptist church.

10:34:25 Hearing a lot of people speaking in regards to the

10:34:27 community centers, and that's what I'm here to speak on

10:34:29 as well.

10:34:32 There's a lot of talk in the fees being raised.




10:34:35 I don't have numbers, but we recently did a survey, and

10:34:41 in those communities, the average income per family is

10:34:44 less than $20,000.

10:34:48 The increased fee is putting a real strain on these

10:34:51 families to just maintain simple living.

10:34:58 With these children not having any place to go, and not

10:35:05 to put myself too far out there, I am in a law

10:35:10 enforcement capacity, and I have seen the number of

10:35:13 juvenile offenders from a low number years ago when I

10:35:19 started to the numbers now in the violent offenders.

10:35:24 These kids have no place to go.

10:35:29 The residents in our community are going to be under

10:35:32 siege.

10:35:33 Plain and simple.

10:35:34 They need some sort of outlet.

10:35:36 And the streets isn't the place for them.

10:35:39 So whatever needs to be done, the kids are our future.

10:35:44 We need to invest in the kids right now.

10:35:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.

10:35:55 >>> My name is clay Daniels, I live at 3708 east -- I'm

10:36:07 a member of the steering committee and also a member of

10:36:09 the East Tampa revitalization.




10:36:11 We got some serious problems over there in East Tampa.

10:36:16 I have been here several times.

10:36:17 And it don't seem like you all listen to me.

10:36:20 You just won't listen.

10:36:21 We have a serious problem of noise coming from cars.

10:36:23 Those articles that I got from you, senator Steve ORR

10:36:28 out of Gainesville, representative Hayes, the Alachua,

10:36:36 Duval, Dade County, they said they are tired of this

10:36:39 noise as a problem.

10:36:40 We have a serious problem.

10:36:41 We can no longer ignore this problem.

10:36:47 I want the City Council to come to East Tampa, come

10:36:49 down to the police station or 22nd and just hear all

10:36:52 this noise.

10:36:53 It's noise from these cars, that boom, boom, boom,

10:36:56 boom, this noise is an environmental hazard, it does

10:37:01 damage to your body, you can't sleep at night.

10:37:04 I know the police department wrote several tickets.

10:37:07 But it's not doing any good.

10:37:10 We have an epidemic.

10:37:12 It's a serious problem.

10:37:13 We no longer cannot do anything about this problem.




10:37:16 And the people that complain about the noise problem

10:37:19 from cars, 2002 when I addressed this problem, looked

10:37:24 at me like I was an idiot.

10:37:27 This noise is out of control.

10:37:29 We can no longer in society let this problem just keep

10:37:32 going.

10:37:32 It's not going to get any better.

10:37:34 It's going to gets worse.

10:37:35 Summer is coming.

10:37:36 And we don't want to stay in our house.

10:37:42 I asked you last year, the program where citizens can K

10:37:46 get the tag number.

10:37:47 We have a problem.

10:37:48 And I'm asking each council member to please take time,

10:37:53 and as a taxpayer we pay you all's salary.

10:37:56 We ask you to take the time and come to East Tampa and

10:37:58 see this problem with the noise.

10:38:00 From the cars, from sun-up to sundown.

10:38:03 We are also asking you all to come see these kids on

10:38:06 the street who have been, like these people said, we

10:38:09 have a problem with that.

10:38:10 That's our future.




10:38:12 Each neighborhood is different.

10:38:14 And all neighborhoods don't have the same problem but

10:38:19 I'm asking you to join me and come out to my home or

10:38:21 come over to the police station on 22nd so you can get

10:38:25 a taste of this noise.

10:38:26 These people don't respect the police department.

10:38:29 This noise is out of control.

10:38:31 And I know you all are tired of me complaining about

10:38:33 this.

10:38:34 I'm tired, too.

10:38:36 I have to keep coming because you all don't listen.

10:38:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.

10:38:40 >> By the way, I got 500 petitions.

10:38:45 It's going to Tallahassee.

10:38:47 Senator Steve ORR's office about the live music.

10:38:50 I gave you all an article about they are going to make

10:38:55 it a moving violation.

10:38:57 That's how bad the noise is in 67 counties.

10:38:59 We have a problem.

10:39:01 I'm asking these parents to come to East Tampa oh to

10:39:05 the police station one evening and get a taste of this

10:39:08 noise.




10:39:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.

10:39:10 Is there anyone in the public that would like to

10:39:12 request -- I'm sorry, sir.

10:39:15 Did you want to speak?

10:39:17 Come on and speak.

10:39:18 >>> Tom Haddock, a resident of towers of Channelside.

10:39:26 I'm here to talk about one of the subjects the

10:39:28 gentleman just talked about, the noise, and what's

10:39:37 going on in Channelside in the evening.

10:39:38 It's really terrible.

10:39:40 21 of the 23 businesses that occupy the court yard of

10:39:44 Channelside have liquor licenses.

10:39:47 The noise goes on till 3:00 in the morning.

10:39:50 The residents at Channelside are really upset with this

10:39:55 thing.

10:39:55 We are a residential neighborhood in addition to that.

10:39:57 But what started out to be an entertainment district

10:40:01 has morphed into a nightclub district.

10:40:03 It is just unbelievable the amount of things that go

10:40:08 on, the drunkenness and the people falling down in the

10:40:12 streets, we have called the police.

10:40:14 The police do not respond.




10:40:16 They show up.

10:40:18 They talk to the nightclub owners, and basically

10:40:24 nothing happens.

10:40:26 They say they don't have noise meters.

10:40:29 We are in one of the towers at Channelside, and at 3:00

10:40:32 in the morning, they are playing rap music at the point

10:40:36 where the windows are rattling, and no one seems to be

10:40:42 concerned where this at all.

10:40:49 The only two businesses that remain in the court yard

10:40:51 that are not -- that don't have liquor licenses, the

10:40:54 candy store and the ice cream store.

10:40:57 Everybody else, it's a destination for every young

10:41:01 person in the whole Tampa area coming all the way from

10:41:05 Clearwater to points north.

10:41:08 And they are there and they are honking their horns at

10:41:11 night.

10:41:12 They are yelling and screaming at each other.

10:41:16 And one business after another is trying to outcompete

10:41:20 each other driving up the noise to attract the young

10:41:23 people.

10:41:24 And it's just gotten to the point where it's

10:41:27 preposterous.




10:41:28 So thank you for listening to me.

10:41:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.

10:41:34 Is there anyone in the public that would like to

10:41:36 request reconsideration on a legislative matter?

10:41:39 We now go to our committee reports.

10:41:40 Public safety, Mr. Charlie Miranda.

10:41:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Miranda, before you move those

10:41:50 items, I didn't gets a chance to pull item 3.

10:41:57 I would ask your deference to allow me to do that and

10:42:03 ask staff to come talk to us about item 3, specifically

10:42:06 so that it's a single-bid response for the purchase of

10:42:10 jet fuel.

10:42:11 And I guess I'm just curious why there's only one

10:42:15 company out there at the airport that is willing to

10:42:17 provide us with jet fuel over there.

10:42:21 If they could come.

10:42:22 Unless you know the answer.

10:42:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I don't know the answer directly

10:42:25 because I was just handed this but I can tell you, I

10:42:28 think there's only one company delivering fuel on the

10:42:30 ground to the airport.

10:42:33 That comes all the way down from Port Tampa and runs




10:42:35 through a very nice neighborhood all the way

10:42:37 underground into the port.

10:42:39 Maybe that's the answer. But we'll hold number 3.

10:42:42 Move item 1 and 2 on the Public Safety Committee.

10:42:44 >> Second.

10:42:46 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.

10:42:49 All in favor?

10:42:50 Opposed? Parks and recreation, Linda Saul-Sena.

10:42:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move item 4 through

10:42:55 19.

10:42:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.

10:42:58 >>CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and second.

10:42:59 All in favor say Aye.

10:43:00 Opposed, Nay.

10:43:01 Public works, Mr. Charlie Miranda.

10:43:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move items 20 through 32.

10:43:07 >> Second.

10:43:09 (Motion carried)

10:43:11 Finance Committee, Ms. Mary Mulhern.

10:43:14 >>MARY MULHERN: I move items 33 through 35.

10:43:17 >> Second.

10:43:20 >>CHAIRMAN: Motion and second.




10:43:22 Building and zoning?

10:43:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I guess Charlie Miranda day here.

10:43:27 We'll move items 36 through 48.

10:43:30 >> Second.

10:43:31 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion say Aye.

10:43:34 Transportation, Mr. Dingfelder.

10:43:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll move items 49 through 51.

10:43:40 >> better stop on 51.

10:43:46 Jet fuel.

10:43:46 >> Pull 50 and 571 with discussion with item 3.

10:43:51 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor?

10:43:56 Opposed?

10:43:56 >>MARY MULHERN: I'll move 52 and 53.

10:44:00 >> Second.

10:44:01 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor?

10:44:05 Opposed, Nay.

10:44:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: One of the items of my committee,

10:44:09 item 12, was a resolution that we are finally, five

10:44:13 years after the fact, building the bypass on Davis

10:44:15 Islands with money that was set aside that the hospital

10:44:18 donated years ago.

10:44:21 There is a balance left of about $500,000.




10:44:25 And I would like to ask that in the second meeting in

10:44:29 April -- no, let's make it the first meeting in April,

10:44:33 that we get a report back on what the balance is and

10:44:35 what the plans are to spend the rests of it.

10:44:38 >> Second.

10:44:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The swimming pool?

10:44:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I believe we all received a letter

10:44:45 the civic association requesting that information

10:44:46 because they would like to direct it.

10:44:51 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.

10:44:53 All in favor of the motion say Aye.

10:44:55 Opposed, Nay.

10:44:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Is she here?

10:45:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: She'll be coming.

10:45:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Then we will go to our public hearings.

10:45:10 No one in the -- anyone in the public that's going to

10:45:13 speak on items 53 through 54 through 61.

10:45:27 Would you please stand and raise your right hand?

10:45:30 (Oath administered by Clerk).

10:45:40 >> I move to open those hearings 54 through 61 now.

10:45:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It probably doesn't impact this

10:45:47 particular motion but I need to abstain from item 59.




10:45:52 >>GWEN MILLER: At.

10:45:53 All in favor?

10:45:54 Opposed?

10:45:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Madam Chair, I ask that all written

10:45:57 material that has been available for public inspection

10:46:00 at City Council's office be received and filed into the

10:46:02 record prior to action by motion, please.

10:46:04 >>MARY MULHERN: So moved.

10:46:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

10:46:08 >>GWEN MILLER:

10:46:09 (Motion carried).

10:46:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And a reminder if you have any

10:46:13 ex parte communications relative to any of today's

10:46:15 hearings, please prior to your vote disclose the sum

10:46:19 and substance of that communication, and with whom that

10:46:21 communication occurred.

10:46:23 Thank you.

10:46:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 54.

10:46:26 >>BARBARA LYNCH: Land Development Coordination.

10:46:28 This is the second reading on an ordinance approving a

10:46:33 vacating.

10:46:33 I just wanted to inform council that one of the




10:46:36 abutting owners on the alley contacted me this morning,

10:46:40 and he is in favor of the vacating but he is impacted

10:46:43 by the transportation easement that's going to be

10:46:45 reserved as a result of this, and he is objecting to

10:46:47 that portion of it.

10:46:48 And I just wanted to give you his e-mail, because I'm

10:46:51 not sure if he was able to attend today.

10:46:53 He was going to try.

10:46:54 I wanted to give you that.

10:47:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that

10:47:10 wants to speak on item 54?

10:47:12 >>> My name is Wade Elliott, the owner of the property

10:47:16 at 3403 west Dorchester street.

10:47:19 I'm supportive of the application to vacate the

10:47:21 alleyway but certainly strongly object to the addition

10:47:24 of the transportation easements.

10:47:26 I understand the proposed transportation easement was

10:47:28 added as a result of the discussion at the last public

10:47:30 hearing.

10:47:32 This alleyway has not been used for the six and a half

10:47:36 years that I owned and occupied my property.

10:47:38 In fact, my neighbor Ellison Kelly, 3401 west




10:47:43 Dorchester street is here today, advises that in fact

10:47:47 it's been the case since 1956.

10:47:49 In fact, the alleyway has been fenced off to prevent

10:47:51 access that entire time, and is being solely used for

10:47:55 the discussion and convenience of one property owner as

10:47:58 an extension of his backyard and not as a

10:48:00 transportation easement.

10:48:03 This wire fence blocking access to the alleyway is

10:48:06 clearly shown in the photo which is one of the exhibits

10:48:09 for today.

10:48:10 I am certainly entitled to the same rights as other

10:48:15 property owners on Dorchester to take back the extra

10:48:18 space afforded by the vacation of the alleyway.

10:48:21 My neighbors who make up three of the four property

10:48:23 owners impacted by this proposed transportation

10:48:26 easements are also feel the same way, and it's my view

10:48:31 that any complete vacation of the alleyway or none at

10:48:36 all.

10:48:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like our staff to please

10:48:38 put up a map of this, and then if you would point out

10:48:41 your property and the others. I remember last time we

10:48:43 had a lively discussion about where the line should be.




10:48:46 So that would be really helpful.

10:48:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Let me ask my question.

10:48:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Oh, this is clear.

10:48:54 Thank you.

10:48:55 >>MARY MULHERN: Are you one of the four that it

10:48:59 impacts?

10:49:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Show us where you are.

10:49:02 >>> Yes.

10:49:03 Right here.

10:49:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Then who is the person who came in

10:49:07 last time?

10:49:08 They said they wanted it left open.

10:49:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm just asking this of the

10:49:21 transportation department or legal.

10:49:22 Just because something has not been used for years,

10:49:24 that doesn't mean that it won't be used in the future.

10:49:27 So what was to happen if we close this without

10:49:32 easement, and then we have to go back in for repair, if

10:49:36 it's being used at all?

10:49:39 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.

10:49:40 If you vacate the alleyway, then the title to that

10:49:43 alleyway reverts to the adjoining property owners and




10:49:46 the City of Tampa would have no obligation to maintain

10:49:49 it, and wouldn't even have the opportunity to maintain

10:49:51 it.

10:49:52 It would be completely in public hands.

10:49:55 And even if you put a partial or total transportation

10:49:59 easement on it, whoa is responsible for maintenance

10:50:04 would change.

10:50:04 It would become the requirement of the adjoining

10:50:06 property owners.

10:50:08 >> So would that be documented in all of those property

10:50:10 owners' files with the tax assessor and so forth, that

10:50:16 if those homes are sold it comes with that easement,

10:50:19 and they have to maintain it forever?

10:50:21 >>JULIA COLE: Well, if there's an easement placed on

10:50:23 it, if one of these properties changes hands it would

10:50:27 be pulled up in their title searches, and what we can

10:50:30 do with that ordinance is we actually record that

10:50:32 afterwards.

10:50:33 So any of the easements that are retained, or

10:50:36 alternatively if it's a complete vacation, it becomes

10:50:38 part of the title of all of the properties.

10:50:41 >> So then if no easement is recorded, then whoever




10:50:46 buys the property, they have to, I guess, assume the

10:50:49 responsibility, and is that easement now at this

10:50:53 present time being used by the city?

10:50:55 I don't know if we have an answer to that right now.

10:50:57 >> That I would ask staff to respond.

10:50:59 >>> Verizon is the only utility that has a utility.

10:51:03 There's no city facility.

10:51:04 >> No sewer, no nothing there at all?

10:51:08 >>> No.

10:51:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?

10:51:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The transportation easement as it's

10:51:14 drafted on the ordinance today only goes up to the --

10:51:18 impacts these first four lots?

10:51:20 Okay.

10:51:21 And Mr. Higgins on the north side, I guess, requested

10:51:24 it last time, so co-continue to have access to his rear

10:51:27 yard?

10:51:28 >>> That's what I understand, yes.

10:51:31 >> And Mr. Elliott is here today.

10:51:32 Across the other side of the alley saying he doesn't

10:51:35 want access.

10:51:36 I guess I'm a little confused, Mr. Elliott.




10:51:38 What is the negative, if you or your neighbors or

10:51:42 somebody is allowed to put up a block there between you

10:51:47 and the Marshalls on the alley, what is the negative

10:51:52 impact of allowing, continuing to allow Mr. Higgins off

10:51:56 of that Kelly and Elliott, rear access to the yard on

10:52:00 his alley?

10:52:01 What is the negative to you?

10:52:03 >>> There's no continuing use, because there has not

10:52:06 been any use.

10:52:07 The fence is right here.

10:52:10 I don't know if you can see it.

10:52:11 But the alleyway has been blocked off westbound the

10:52:13 fence throughout the time that I have had --

10:52:16 >> Well, apparently he's indicated some theoretical

10:52:19 desire to keep rear access to his yard.

10:52:21 So I guess my question is, what is the negative?

10:52:23 >>> The negative impact to me is just like every other

10:52:26 property owner on Carrington and Dorchester street,

10:52:29 with the vacation, I should be entitled just as the

10:52:32 three of the four neighbors who are impacted by this to

10:52:35 take back that extra five feet.

10:52:38 It's not being used as a transportation easement.




10:52:40 And so it's an artificial request.

10:52:42 >> So take it back for what purpose?

10:52:46 >> Just like the application today, to vacate the

10:52:49 alleyway.

10:52:50 Everybody else has moved forward and extended their

10:52:53 fence line to five feet.

10:52:55 The only area that hasn't done so is the houses at the

10:52:59 end of the street.

10:52:59 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Can Mr. Higgins get to the back

10:53:06 of his property through the front of his property?

10:53:08 >>> That I don't know.

10:53:09 >> Not by car.

10:53:16 >> Is Mr. Higgins here?

10:53:18 >> No.

10:53:22 The house on the corner --

10:53:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We need to speak to him, too.

10:53:26 >>GWEN MILLER: Will you come up and speak?

10:53:28 >> My name is Rus Ofenbach, west Carrington street.

10:53:35 Ours and the house directly behind us, the Kelly house,

10:53:38 the only house that this alley is behind.

10:53:41 I'm concerned for security reasons in addition to why

10:53:46 that additional space, we were one of two houses on




10:53:49 this street in the 35 years we have been living in the

10:53:51 house that had an inground pool, and the alley was used

10:53:54 by kids to throw things into our pool, which required

10:53:58 us to enclose our pool for safety reasons.

10:54:02 The alley, in the 35 years of living there, the only

10:54:07 time I have seen that little chicken wire fence you

10:54:11 removed between my property and the Higgins property

10:54:13 was for Mr. Higgins to bring his van in, which sat for,

10:54:20 I think, five or ten years, and was recently towed outs

10:54:24 about six months ago, but it has not been used as an

10:54:27 entrance or exits to his backyard.

10:54:30 So I would want to have it closed for security reasons.

10:54:34 >>GWEN MILLER: All right, next speaker

10:54:41 >> Kathryn Ellison Kelly.

10:54:48 I live at 3401 west corridor Chester street.

10:54:51 I am actually the house on the corner that backs up to

10:54:54 Mr. Ofenbach.

10:54:57 I am in support of closing the alley with Mr. Ofenbach

10:55:02 in that for security reasons we have had problems with

10:55:04 children going in the back of the alley, finding empty

10:55:07 beer cans, illegal use of drug use back there, also.

10:55:14 Mr. Higgins has taken it upon his part to illegally




10:55:19 block the alley for his convenience.

10:55:23 He has taken off ten feet of the alley for his personal

10:55:27 use and give no consideration to the other three of the

10:55:33 residents that reside on the alley.

10:55:38 The initial use of the alley was for the garbage man to

10:55:41 pick up the garbage that would come down the alley.

10:55:44 It can no longer be used for that in that -- not TECO,

10:55:50 but the company has a telephone pole at the opposite

10:55:54 end of the alleyway.

10:55:55 Even if the alleyway was to be forced open all the way,

10:56:00 you still could not have access all the way through.

10:56:04 I feel like we are being penalized because one

10:56:07 individual wants it left open.

10:56:09 He has not even used this alleyway in years.

10:56:16 His original reason for wanting the alleyway open was

10:56:18 for his wife's mother who came down to visit and won

10:56:24 use the alleyway to park her car.

10:56:27 She's been dead numerous of years.

10:56:30 And that was the one and only reason for the purpose of

10:56:32 the alleyway to be open.

10:56:35 And manipulate parents agreed -- I live in the house

10:56:38 that I grew up in.




10:56:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Question.

10:56:44 Ms. Kelly, is it?

10:56:47 Since you are catty-corner to Mr. Hanson, since he's

10:56:51 not here, does he have any structures, garage or any

10:56:59 type of outstructure that faces the alley that he would

10:57:02 need to use the alley?

10:57:04 >>> No.

10:57:05 No.

10:57:06 He actually put it on himself to put an illegal fence

10:57:10 up, blocked out.

10:57:11 >> But I mean in terms of structures, or boats or

10:57:15 anything like that?

10:57:16 >> No.

10:57:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.

10:57:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker.

10:57:20 >>> Robert Wallace on behalf of the petitioner.

10:57:30 I would just like to kind of reiterate the position

10:57:33 that my client was in that started this ball rolling.

10:57:37 All other alleys have been closed by previous City

10:57:41 Council action.

10:57:41 There is no municipal function in the alley.

10:57:45 It is not a paved alley.




10:57:46 There were comments that maybe the people illegally put

10:57:50 up fences and hedges and things.

10:57:53 The city has not been maintaining that so the private

10:57:56 citizens have been maintaining it and using the area.

10:57:59 So we are just simply trying to codify that current

10:58:02 status.

10:58:06 And there has been at least six people out of the 17

10:58:08 property owners that have come forward and are in favor

10:58:12 of closing our alley.

10:58:13 I believe there's no municipal function there.

10:58:16 It's the best course to close the entire alley.

10:58:18 We originally were thinking about just closing a

10:58:21 portion of the alley that affected my client.

10:58:23 But we are told it's either all or nothing so we would

10:58:26 encourage you to try to we all the options.

10:58:30 Just one person is periodically affected by this, and

10:58:33 they can still access their backyard the way everybody

10:58:36 else accesses their backyard.

10:58:38 Thank you very much.

10:58:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm just reading this the way it is

10:58:44 written for second reading and approval.

10:58:47 It's subject to reservation of certain permanent




10:58:49 easements.

10:58:50 Does that mean the city easements, or if this council

10:58:55 was to have a change of heart and remove the easement

10:58:58 can we continue with this hearing or do we have to

10:59:00 readdress it and rewrite the ordinance?

10:59:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You can, and Ms. Cole can address

10:59:05 this, but we just discussed this.

10:59:07 You would have to go back to the original ordinance

10:59:09 which didn't come template this.

10:59:12 It would have to go back to first reading on this.

10:59:14 >>JULIA COLE: That's my concern, that if you go ahead

10:59:17 and approve this on second reading -- (microphone

10:59:24 feedback) given the nature of how this is set for

10:59:26 second reading that that would not be appropriate so I

10:59:28 would recommend that you go ahead and hear this,

10:59:30 without that condition on first reading.

10:59:32 And then move that forward.

10:59:33 >> I want those in the audience that are neighbors that

10:59:38 came up and spoke, I'm sure you understand but realize

10:59:41 that if it's our decision to go back and remove the

10:59:45 easement from the alley, we have to really start anew.

10:59:50 And I'm not opposed to that.




10:59:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question.

10:59:54 >>MARY MULHERN: Sole basically we have to go back to

11:00:02 first read field goal we want to remove the easement.

11:00:05 >>JULIA COLE: If you vote today to go ahead and you

11:00:07 want to adopt this ordinance without that condition,

11:00:09 although transportation easement, my recommendation is

11:00:13 read the ordinance again on first reading, with your

11:00:15 vote removing that condition, and that's what would

11:00:18 come back to you at second reading.

11:00:19 >> So this can be the first reading?

11:00:22 >>> Yes.

11:00:23 >> This is what I would like to say.

11:00:26 Thank you, Mr. Elliott, for bringing this very readable

11:00:29 map.

11:00:29 When we had the first reading, and I think I'm the one

11:00:32 that made the motion to allow that easement, it was

11:00:34 impossible for us to really visualize who lived where,

11:00:40 where the fence was, what part of the alley was open,

11:00:44 and in an effort to be fair to this one citizen, I

11:00:49 thought we should do that.

11:00:50 Now that I see this, clearly we are talking about this

11:00:56 portion of easement affects four residents, and we have




11:01:01 only heard from one person -- this was only one person

11:01:06 who objected to this vacation in the first place.

11:01:11 So I would be willing to remove the easement part and

11:01:15 move this on first hearing basis.

11:01:18 >> Move to close.

11:01:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Wait, we have a question from Ms.

11:01:24 Saul-Sena.

11:01:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question from legal.

11:01:26 >>GWEN MILLER: Turn your mike on.

11:01:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: If a person buys property with an

11:01:31 alley, it's a public entity, if we allow that alley to

11:01:41 be removed, what is their -- what is their ability to

11:01:49 criticize us because of taking away a point of access

11:01:52 to that provider property that they had had previously?

11:01:55 Because usually the way things work is a person

11:01:57 petitions to close the alley behind their house, but

11:02:01 because of our rule is an all or nothing thing, so

11:02:05 council has the ability to waive it.

11:02:07 We are affecting people's rights who have specifically

11:02:09 asked that their rights not be infringed upon.

11:02:12 And also how does this affect the value of the property

11:02:14 in terms of the tax collector?




11:02:17 >>JULIA COLE: To answer your first question, the whole

11:02:19 point of this process, this is the public hearing

11:02:21 process upon which we notify all the property owners

11:02:24 along the alleyway are noticed.

11:02:27 As to the petition, coming before the body, what the

11:02:31 body is determining is whether or not there's any

11:02:33 public use remaining on this which necessities leaving

11:02:37 it within the public trust versus saying we don't

11:02:40 really have a public need for it, therefore we are

11:02:42 allowing that to deed back to the adjoining property

11:02:47 owners.

11:02:47 That's really the whole analysis you are undertaking

11:02:50 today, is whether there's a public use.

11:02:52 If there's not, then you vote to vacate, alternatively

11:02:57 you don't.

11:02:57 To answer your second question, it would become part

11:02:59 and parcel of these folks' property, to have that

11:03:03 property appraisal, I wouldn't know.

11:03:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It's my understanding of what we

11:03:08 are supposed to do is be as fair as possible.

11:03:11 It seems to me we are also supposed to protect each

11:03:13 individual.




11:03:14 And if in this case given the property own area cross

11:03:17 the alley removes the right of the property owner on

11:03:21 the other side of the alley, it negatively impacts

11:03:25 their ability to get into their property.

11:03:28 What is council's responsibility?

11:03:31 >>> What your responsibility is through this process is

11:03:34 to analyze the alley as a whole, and make a

11:03:36 determination as to whether or not it retains the

11:03:40 necessity to keep this in the public use for the public

11:03:42 benefit.

11:03:43 Because at any point in time when something is

11:03:46 dedicated to the public, through this body, through

11:03:49 City Council, however that happens, you are holding it

11:03:52 in trust for the public as a whole.

11:03:54 This process for all vacations that you have that come

11:03:57 before you, your entire analysis is whether or not it

11:03:59 is necessary to keep this alley, the roadway,

11:04:04 et cetera, within the public benefit and the public

11:04:06 use, and if the determination is that it's no longer

11:04:10 necessary for the public use or the public benefit,

11:04:11 that's what you are analyzing.

11:04:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.




11:04:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Caetano, do you still have a

11:04:16 question?

11:04:17 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: No.

11:04:18 >>MARY MULHERN: Ms. Cole, my question is, whatever

11:04:24 portion of the alley we vacate, is there an equal

11:04:29 division between the two lots?

11:04:32 >>JULIA COLE: Yes.

11:04:33 >>MARY MULHERN: So they are actually gaining property.

11:04:36 Everybody gains a little bit of property.

11:04:38 >>JULIA COLE: They would be gaining the full

11:04:41 entitlement for that property.

11:04:43 They would be gaining the full entitlement of that

11:04:45 property.

11:04:46 >> Move to close.

11:04:48 >> Second.

11:04:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.

11:04:51 Mr. Miranda?

11:04:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: What I would like to do is move

11:04:54 this ordinance and bring it back for first reading

11:04:56 without the provisions of the reservation for permanent

11:05:00 easement.

11:05:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you have the first reading?




11:05:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Ms. Cole?

11:05:06 Did you wish to have the title read in its entirety

11:05:09 under this one, to have it removed -- removed and

11:05:15 brought back for second reading?

11:05:17 >>JULIA COLE: Read the title again with removing the

11:05:19 condition that the partial transportation easement --

11:05:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And this is the first reading.

11:05:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.

11:05:27 In your deference I will go ahead and read this for

11:05:30 first reading and I'll be striking the easement.

11:05:33 Move an ordinance for first reading vacating closing

11:05:36 discontinuing and abandoning a certain right-of-way

11:05:38 alleyway lying south of Carrington, north of

11:05:41 Dorchester, east of Himes Avenue, west of Everina

11:05:46 street, in corrected map Oakland park a subdivision in

11:05:49 the City of Tampa, Florida, the same being more fully

11:05:53 described as section 2 hereof subject to certain

11:05:55 covenants, conditions and restrictions as more

11:05:56 particularly described herein, providing an effective

11:05:56 date, and I struck the previously mentioned permanent

11:05:57 easement.

11:06:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to thank the creator of this




11:06:09 map it shed a lot of light but I won't be able to

11:06:12 support the resolution of council because frankly I

11:06:15 think we have to protect even one person who uses this

11:06:17 point as a point of access so I won't be going with it.

11:06:20 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.

11:06:22 All in favor?

11:06:23 Opposed?

11:06:24 >>MARY MULHERN: I want to say again about the map, the

11:06:27 reason that people have come back here is because we

11:06:30 didn't have the materials we needed to be able to make

11:06:33 a decision.

11:06:34 There was no visual -- there was no map that actually

11:06:40 diagrammed this for us so we could really understand

11:06:43 where each property was.

11:06:44 So we wouldn't have this property if maybe Mr. Elliott

11:06:49 would draw all our maps.

11:06:50 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried with Scott being

11:06:53 absent and Saul-Sena voting no.

11:06:57 The second reading of the ordinance will be held March

11:07:00 the 18th at 9:30 a.m.

11:07:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ms. Saul-Sena, I agree with you

11:07:06 completely to protect the individual but I think the




11:07:08 evidence is such from the neighbors that in that

11:07:11 particular individual hasn't been using that alley for

11:07:13 a number of years.

11:07:14 So in this case, I think the evidence outweighs that

11:07:21 issues.

11:07:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Judy Lisi, we are going to stop so you

11:07:28 can come and get back to work.

11:07:30 I know you have to get back.

11:07:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Could the people in cable --

11:07:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Mrs. Cole, could you move that piece of

11:07:40 paper there?

11:07:41 Thank you.

11:07:41 >>> Judy Lisi: I'm the president of the Straz center

11:07:51 for the performing arts.

11:07:53 And I am happy to give you a very short annual report

11:07:57 of our 22nd year of operations.

11:08:01 Our 2008-2009 season was of course challenging for

11:08:05 obvious reasons, but very, very rewarding in so many

11:08:08 more ways.

11:08:09 In the movie Shakespeare in love in which she have

11:08:12 Jeffrey rush plays the theater owner who performs

11:08:15 Shakespeare plays, he says it's one of insurmountable




11:08:21 obstacles on the road to imminent disaster.

11:08:24 Strangely enough it all turns out well.

11:08:25 It's a mystery.

11:08:26 But more than a mystery for us, we do strive for

11:08:29 planning and high quality operations.

11:08:32 And despite our ongoing struggles with the economy, we

11:08:36 managed again an operating budget surplus of $51,000,

11:08:39 and this will be 17 years of continuing operating

11:08:42 surpluses.

11:08:44 We did it by taking a close low at our operations back

11:08:47 in early summer of 2009 and made strategic belt

11:08:50 tightening in all areas.

11:08:51 The results is a leaner organization that still aims

11:08:55 for the high it evident quality in everything that we

11:08:57 do.

11:08:58 To make sure the arts are available for everyone we

11:09:02 instituted innovative prices which included early bird

11:09:09 specials, subscription payment plans and many free

11:09:12 events distributed over 66,000 complementary tickets in

11:09:15 our community.

11:09:16 The arts reflects who we are, connect us to our past,

11:09:21 help us understand the present world around us an




11:09:23 anticipate the future, in a world of cell phones,

11:09:26 soundbites and on demand everything, the arts offer a

11:09:29 respite, authentic means of human expression, contact

11:09:32 and celebration.

11:09:33 We are a very happy gathering place, a convener of our

11:09:37 community.

11:09:37 We are a presenter, a community partner, and economic

11:09:40 engine, and a producer as well as an educator.

11:09:44 We presented over 732 professional performances, and a

11:09:49 total of 4,202 events.

11:09:51 More than 600,000 people attended our performances last

11:09:55 year.

11:09:55 Billboard magazine made the hall third in attendance in

11:09:55 the world for the last decade for venues under 5,000

11:10:03 seats.

11:10:04 We hope that hosted community events, conferences and

11:10:09 meetings, reached over 50,000 students through our

11:10:11 field trip program outreaches and Patel conservatory

11:10:15 program and continues to work with the downtown

11:10:16 partnership and our downtown cultural arts district

11:10:19 neighbors including our wonderful New Tampa museum of

11:10:21 art, the Glazer children's museum, and joint marketing




11:10:25 and a PR initiative.

11:10:27 It is such a joy to see the downtown cultural district

11:10:30 continue to develop and thrive.

11:10:33 The early vision and dream of so many people in our

11:10:35 community.

11:10:37 And employ 110 full tame and 268 part-time employees,

11:10:41 we also contributes $110 million economic impact.

11:10:46 We really do regard ourselves as an economic catalyst

11:10:48 in our community.

11:10:50 We generate a 42,000 room nights for patrons, cast and

11:10:54 true and continue to produce grant opera and

11:10:57 celebrating the 15th year of our opera Tampa, as it

11:11:02 continues to build a national and international

11:11:05 reputation.

11:11:06 We also produced a new show called weight watchers, the

11:11:11 musical which is now picked up for international

11:11:13 distribution.

11:11:14 Finally, we produced our first broadway genesis project

11:11:17 called wonderland.

11:11:18 It has been an artistic and commercial success both

11:11:21 here and in Tampa, brought in an estimated 2.5 million

11:11:24 in revenue between Tampa and Houston, filled 92%




11:11:29 available seats, attracted 31,000 patrons, and 43

11:11:34 performances, and 20% repeat business, and it's now the

11:11:39 highest selling show in the theater's 60 year history

11:11:43 in Houston, and one of the recording deals picked up

11:11:46 internationally by SONY classic so we are happy about

11:11:49 where we are with that.

11:11:50 Finally, I want to talk a little about the Patel

11:11:52 conservatory, celebrating the 5th anniversary of

11:11:56 the Patel conservatory, and we have 120 outreaches, ten

11:12:01 thousand students.

11:12:02 The Patel conservatory was a dream, and succeeded

11:12:04 beyond our wildest imagination.

11:12:07 Before I conclude I just want to thank all of you for

11:12:10 what you do for our community.

11:12:12 Just like in wonderland, we have to follow our hearts.

11:12:15 That's why we do what we do in the arts, and I know

11:12:18 that's what you do as community leaders.

11:12:20 We receive generous gifts, but still need ongoing

11:12:24 support to cover our immediate needs and operating

11:12:26 programs.

11:12:26 Our goal is to ensure the health of all of our culture

11:12:30 institutions.




11:12:31 Who could have dreamed that entering Tampa there would

11:12:33 be an avenue with a conservatory, five theaters, a

11:12:36 library, art museum, beautiful park, children's museum,

11:12:40 riverwalk, and center for photography, a true Avenue of

11:12:44 the arts in the city of the arts, that expresses the

11:12:47 best of our community values.

11:12:49 So thank you.

11:12:50 I want to thank the mayor, all of our private and

11:12:53 corporate citizens for your ongoing support, and a

11:12:56 vision for our great city.

11:12:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We are so proud you're here.

11:13:03 We are so happy you are here.

11:13:04 And the recognition of the economic engine that the

11:13:08 Straz center for the arts present is huge.

11:13:12 I think it's up to you and to us to let the entire

11:13:16 community understand in addition to the cultural

11:13:19 offerings and ways to lift our spirit that the economic

11:13:22 engine is huge.

11:13:23 I know at the tourist development council we had a

11:13:28 hotelier downtown talk about the number of days that

11:13:30 were booked because of the people who came to town to

11:13:33 create wonderland, and also the restaurateurs all say




11:13:37 they know when there's a show because they are busy,

11:13:40 and it makes a huge difference.

11:13:41 So thank you for all of that.

11:13:43 And your leadership.

11:13:44 >> I want to thank my colleague Michael is here

11:13:47 somewhere, and Julie BRITON and McBride.

11:13:53 Thank you very much for this opportunity.

11:13:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you for coming.

11:13:55 We appreciate everything you are doing.

11:13:57 We go back now to our hearings for second reading.

11:14:00 I don't know, is there anyone to speak on item 55?

11:14:07 Item 55?

11:14:09 >> Move to close.

11:14:10 >> Second.

11:14:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to close.

11:14:12 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance being presented

11:14:17 for second reading and adoption, an ordinance approving

11:14:19 an historic preservation property tax exemption

11:14:22 application relative to the restoration, renovation or

11:14:25 rehabilitation of certain property owned by Franklin

11:14:27 Street group LLC located at 1609 North Franklin Street,

11:14:31 Tampa, Florida, in the North Franklin downtown multiple




11:14:34 properties listings group historic district based upon

11:14:37 certain findings, providing for notice to the property

11:14:39 appraiser of Hillsborough County, providing for

11:14:42 severability, providing for repeal of all ordinances in

11:14:45 conflict, providing an effective date.

11:14:46 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.

11:14:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

11:14:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Vote and record.

11:14:52 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder and Scott

11:15:03 being absent.

11:15:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that

11:15:06 wants to speak on item number 56?

11:15:13 >>> Good morning.

11:15:16 LaChone Dock, Land Development Coordination.

11:15:19 Items 56 through 60 require certified site plans.

11:15:22 These plans have been certified by the zoning

11:15:24 administrator and have been provided to the clerk.

11:15:26 I have copies of these plans.

11:15:28 If you have any questions.

11:15:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else like to speak?

11:15:31 >> Move to close.

11:15:34 >> Second.




11:15:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to close.

11:15:38 Mr. Miranda?

11:15:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair.

11:15:40 Move an ordinance presented for second reading and

11:15:43 adoption.

11:15:43 An ordinance approving a special using permit S-U for

11:15:46 alcoholic beverage sales making lawful the sale of

11:15:49 beverage regardless of alcoholic content beer and wine

11:15:52 liquor 4(COP-X) for consumption on premises only at or

11:15:56 from that certain lot, plot or tract of land located at

11:15:59 120 Gasparilla plaza, Tampa, Florida more particularly

11:16:02 described in section 2 hereof imposing certain

11:16:05 conditions based upon the location of the property,

11:16:07 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict,

11:16:10 providing an effective date.

11:16:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

11:16:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Vote and record.

11:16:12 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder and Scott

11:16:22 being absent.

11:16:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that

11:16:25 wants to speak on item 57?

11:16:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to close.




11:16:31 >> Second.

11:16:31 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion say Aye.

11:16:35 Ms. Saul-Sena, would you read that, please?

11:16:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'd like to move the following

11:16:42 ordinance for second reading and adoption.

11:16:43 An ordinance approving a special use permit S-2 for

11:16:50 alcoholic beverage sales, large venue and making lawful

11:16:53 the sale of beverages containing alcohol regardless of

11:16:56 alcoholic content beer, wine and liquor 4(COP) for

11:16:58 consumption on the premises and in sealed containers

11:17:01 for consumption off premises on that certain plot lot

11:17:04 plot or tract of land located at 17506 preserve walk

11:17:08 lane, unit 3, Tampa, Florida, as more particularly

11:17:11 described in section 2 hereof, providing for repeal of

11:17:14 all ordinances in conflict, providing an effective

11:17:15 date.

11:17:15 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.

11:17:18 Vote and record.

11:17:19 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder and Scott

11:17:32 being absent.

11:17:33 >> Is there anyone in the public that wants to speak on

11:17:35 item 58?




11:17:36 >> Move to close.

11:17:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

11:17:39 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor say Aye.

11:17:43 Mr. Caetano?

11:17:44 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: An ordinance being presented for

11:17:46 second reading and adoption an ordinance approving a

11:17:49 special use permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales,

11:17:52 small venue and making lawful the sale of beverage

11:17:54 containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight and not

11:17:56 more than 14% by weight and wines regardless of

11:17:59 alcoholic content beer and wine 2(COP) for consumption

11:18:03 on premises in sealed containers for consumption off

11:18:07 premises at or from that certain lot, plot or tract of

11:18:10 land located at 1208 East Kennedy Boulevard, unit

11:18:14 number 112, Tampa, Florida, more particularly described

11:18:16 in section 2 hereof imposing certain conditions based

11:18:20 upon the location of the property providing for repeal

11:18:23 of all ordinances in conflict, providing an effective

11:18:25 date.

11:18:25 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.

11:18:28 Vote and record.

11:18:28 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Scott being absent.




11:18:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public to speak

11:18:46 on item 59?

11:18:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Motion to close.

11:18:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I am going to abstain from 59.

11:18:53 My law partner has an interest in this property.

11:18:57 I have been advised by our legal council it's proper

11:19:00 under state and local law to abstain.

11:19:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And you are filing a form in relation

11:19:04 to that?

11:19:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And you are handing that to the

11:19:09 clerk as I speak.

11:19:10 >> Also we're absent at the first reading.

11:19:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Right.

11:19:15 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor?

11:19:16 Opposed?

11:19:17 Ms. Mulhern, would you read that?

11:19:20 >> I move an ordinance being presented for second

11:19:22 reading and adoption, an ordinance repealing ordinance

11:19:24 number 2006-146, approving a special use permit S-2 for

11:19:29 alcoholic beverage sales, large venue and making lawful

11:19:32 the sale of beverages containing alcohol regardless of

11:19:35 alcoholic content beer bine wine and liquor 4(COP) for




11:19:38 consumption on the premises and in sealed containers

11:19:41 for consumption off premises on that certain lot plot

11:19:44 or tract of land located at 420 south Jefferson street,

11:19:47 807 east Eunice Avenue and 450 Channelside drive,

11:19:52 Tampa, Florida as more particularly described in

11:19:54 section 3 hereof imposing certain conditions based upon

11:19:56 the location of the property, providing for repeal of

11:19:58 all ordinances in conflict, providing an effective

11:20:00 date.

11:20:00 >> I have a motion and second.

11:20:02 Vote and record.

11:20:12 Clerk clerks motion carried with Scott being absent and

11:20:14 Dingfelder abstaining.

11:20:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that

11:20:18 wants to speak on item 60?

11:20:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.

11:20:23 >> Second.

11:20:25 >>CHAIRMAN: Mr. Miranda?

11:20:26 >> Move an ordinance presented for second reading,

11:20:30 adoption, an ordinance repealing ordinance 95-31

11:20:33 approving a special use S-2 for alcoholic beverage

11:20:36 sales large venue making lawful the sale of beverages




11:20:39 regardless of alcoholic content, beer, wine and liquor,

11:20:41 4(COP-X), for consumption on premises only at or from

11:20:45 that certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 7201

11:20:49 North Boulevard, Tampa, Florida, as more particularly

11:20:53 described in section 2 thereof, providing for repeal of

11:20:58 all ordinances in conflict, providing an effective

11:20:59 date.

11:21:01 >>CHAIRMAN: We have a motion and second.

11:21:02 Vote and record.

11:21:10 THE CLERK: Motion carried with Scott being absent.

11:21:12 >>GWEN MILLER: 61 is already open.

11:21:15 We need to continue it.

11:21:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So move to continue 61.

11:21:19 To March 18th.

11:21:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

11:21:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The year 2010 at approximately 9:30

11:21:27 because it will never happen.

11:21:29 [ Laughter ]

11:21:29 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor?

11:21:31 Opposed?

11:21:32 Item number 62 we need to open.

11:21:34 >> So moved.




11:21:35 >> Second.

11:21:35 (Motion carried).

11:21:42 >>SAL TERRITO: Legal department.

11:21:43 It's a public hearing to see if you have any questions

11:21:46 or the public has any questions on this conduit bond

11:21:48 usual you doing, doing for someone else, we get a fee

11:21:51 for doing this and the city has no obligation on the

11:21:53 bonds.

11:21:53 >> Pass-through.

11:21:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Win-win.

11:21:56 >> Move to close.

11:21:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone in the public like to

11:22:01 speak on item 62?

11:22:03 >> Move to close.

11:22:04 >> Second.

11:22:05 (Motion carried).

11:22:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So move the resolution.

11:22:09 >> Second.

11:22:10 (Motion carried)

11:22:18 36789 now we go to our staff reports.

11:22:19 Item 63.

11:22:20 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.




11:22:22 Council, this ordinance is allow for modular news

11:22:34 racks.

11:22:35 You asked the staff to work with a not-for-profit group

11:22:38 to place these in the right-of-way in an effort to try

11:22:40 to get some voluntary compliance to deal with the

11:22:43 proliferation of news racks.

11:22:45 We first came to you back on November 5th.

11:22:48 City Council raised several issues that they asked

11:22:50 staff to address including fees as well as the

11:22:54 imposition of a site plan for each of the individual

11:22:56 nonbolted down news racks.

11:22:58 We came back to you last time having addressed the

11:23:01 issues at the last meeting, City Council asked to us

11:23:03 make one additional change which was to remove the

11:23:07 phrase "or similar fixture" from the prohibition of

11:23:10 attaching these racks to traffic signs, utility poles

11:23:14 or traffic utility devices.

11:23:18 I'm available for any questions that you may have.

11:23:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a couple of questions.

11:23:24 There was some concern last time about the amount of

11:23:27 the fees that we were charging.

11:23:30 Have we revised them downward?




11:23:31 >> The amount of fees is not contained in this

11:23:33 ordinance.

11:23:34 The amount of fees will be set by resolution which

11:23:36 should be coming at the same time as second reading.

11:23:38 And at that time staff will have to have explained and

11:23:44 justified the fees that they are recommending.

11:23:46 And if City Council doesn't agree with that, we can

11:23:50 revise the resolution.

11:23:51 The only thing this ordinance does is it allows for the

11:23:55 imposition of fees for the modular bolted-down news

11:23:59 racks.

11:24:00 It does not allow for fees for the nonmodular news

11:24:04 racks.

11:24:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Is there a mandate for people that

11:24:09 participate?

11:24:10 >> No.

11:24:11 There is no mandate that anyone participates.

11:24:14 It simply allows them to be there and hopes there will

11:24:18 be some voluntary compliance and the eliminate the

11:24:21 proliferation of single news racks.

11:24:24 Thank you for clarifying that.

11:24:25 With that I am happy to support that.




11:24:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the audience to

11:24:29 speak on item 63?

11:24:36 >>MARGARET VIZZI: 213 south charger really.

11:24:38 The zoning committee -- and I say the zoning committee

11:24:40 because we have not had time since this new ordinance

11:24:43 was brought forward in the last week or so, to go to

11:24:47 the T.H.A.N. members, but the T.H.A.N. zoning committee

11:24:52 met last night to discuss.

11:24:57 We had several questions about what some of this meant.

11:25:03 Spencer, I know, has been talking to the attorneys

11:25:06 about it, but still they weren't -- wanted some

11:25:11 clarification.

11:25:11 This has the possibility of affecting neighborhoods, as

11:25:15 we understand, because there's nothing in this that

11:25:19 says if you don't want one of these things in front of

11:25:22 the box, a regular newspaper box, in front of your

11:25:26 home, that you could call them and ask them to remove

11:25:28 it.

11:25:30 We don't know if that's there or not.

11:25:32 If it still is, it doesn't look lake it.

11:25:36 This is an issue similar to the billboard issue, and we

11:25:39 are a little disappointed that we were not put into the




11:25:42 loop as to how this could affect neighborhoods.

11:25:45 When it was first discussed, I really understood it was

11:25:50 the big boxes downtown, whatever you call it, the

11:25:53 modular

11:25:54 But this has gone into effect affecting even the little

11:25:59 ones that they put on the corners.

11:26:01 And even now, I know because I have called in, they put

11:26:04 these boxes in what they call the sight view.

11:26:08 And I have to call them in to make them move it.

11:26:11 If there is no site plan to prove that these things are

11:26:16 not in that sight view, and you give a permit to these

11:26:20 people, then will you be able to get them to remove

11:26:23 them and put them where they have to be?

11:26:26 These are the kinds of questions that we were asking

11:26:29 last night.

11:26:29 So basically, zoning committee -- T.H.A.N. zoning

11:26:36 committee would ask you to please put this off so that

11:26:38 we can get more of the answers that we need, and then

11:26:42 be able to support it or at least give our input to you

11:26:45 as to where our concerns really lie.

11:26:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Rebecca Kert, would you come up?

11:26:54 >> How come T.H.A.N. wasn't in the loop?




11:26:59 >>REBECCA KERT: This first came to first reading on

11:27:01 November 2nd.

11:27:02 This were members of the audience. We didn't

11:27:04 particularly send it out to T.H.A.N. but certainly it's

11:27:05 been on the agenda three or four times at this point.

11:27:10 If they would like more involvement we are happy to do

11:27:12 it.

11:27:12 But the limited question that was put forth -- well,

11:27:16 the direction from City Council was to allow for

11:27:19 modular news racks.

11:27:21 During that review we realized the ordinance had not

11:27:23 been updated since the 80s.

11:27:26 So we updated -- you had some general idea for

11:27:30 locations which would not immediate the first amendment

11:27:32 scrutiny because they were very discretionary.

11:27:34 So we made those clear, they cannot be in the sight

11:27:38 plain, they have to be parallel to the roadways.

11:27:40 The only other thing change we made as Ms. Vizzi

11:27:44 mentioned was we struck a provision which previously

11:27:46 stated that a third party adjoining property owner

11:27:50 could -- could require the racks be removed, and that's

11:27:59 not legally permissible under the current case law for




11:28:02 first amendment.

11:28:03 You cannot delegate that sort of decision-making

11:28:05 process to a third party.

11:28:07 You have to have set criteria.

11:28:08 You have to determine in advance, here are the areas

11:28:10 where it's appropriate for them to be.

11:28:13 But you can't either delegate it to a third party or

11:28:15 have that discretion even in your staff to say for no

11:28:20 other reason than we don't want it here.

11:28:22 So even though in the current time it's no longer

11:28:25 legally enforceable.

11:28:26 >> Real quickly, couldn't we say that it can't be in

11:28:30 proximity to a single-family residential land use?

11:28:38 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: We can talk about something

11:28:39 objective like that.

11:28:40 But this was raised in one of the previous meetings

11:28:43 before council.

11:28:44 We did previously advise you that the property owner

11:28:49 veto, so to speak, was not permissible.

11:28:52 And I understand what you are saying.

11:28:53 We did intend a little bit of time looking at how you

11:28:56 would set more general locational standards.




11:28:59 It's difficult to do, frankly.

11:29:01 But we could talk about how to do that.

11:29:07 If you talk about basically saying in single-family

11:29:10 zoning districts, there will be in a news racks, we

11:29:13 would then have to go and figure out what that would do

11:29:15 to the newspaper's ability to distribute their product,

11:29:19 which needs to be permitted from a first amendment

11:29:21 perspective.

11:29:22 So it's a little more complicated than just saying not

11:29:25 in this zoning classification.

11:29:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think we should defer this for

11:29:33 about a month to allow T.H.A.N. to have a little more

11:29:34 time to look at it.

11:29:36 But also to look at this issue.

11:29:38 Maybe it's not single-family zoning districts per se.

11:29:41 Maybe it's limited to the type of roadway that it's on,

11:29:47 because, you know, what's the least traveled

11:29:51 residential type of road?

11:29:53 And then we have the higher level roads and the

11:29:55 commercial roads and that sort of thing.

11:29:58 So that's where I think I think we should defer this

11:30:03 for a month for staff to perhaps look at that issue as




11:30:08 well.

11:30:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: To meet with T.H.A.N.

11:30:11 >>REBECCA KERT: If City Council wants to defer, that

11:30:15 is fine.

11:30:16 It's been pending for quite awhile.

11:30:18 It's not likely to change anything.

11:30:20 I do want to address the point that Mr. Dingfelder

11:30:23 raised about looking at whether or not we can put them

11:30:28 on certain roadways or not certain roadways F.that's

11:30:31 City Council's direction we can do that.

11:30:33 But I need to make it clear it's not a simple process.

11:30:36 The Supreme Court has said certainly you can do

11:30:39 regulations it.

11:30:41 Some jurisdictions very stringent regulations but the

11:30:44 only time the Supreme Court has upheld those is after a

11:30:47 lot of research and a lot of study and a lot of

11:30:50 analysis of what the need for the news racks, how many

11:30:54 news racks do we currently have, exactly how they are

11:30:59 operating, and where are -- I'm just saying, if you

11:31:04 want to do that, that's not going to be a 30-day

11:31:06 project of.

11:31:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: My observation is most of these are




11:31:09 not out in the neighborhoods per se anyway.

11:31:11 Most of them are off of commercial, you know,

11:31:14 boulevards anyway.

11:31:15 Maybe we can have that discussion.

11:31:17 If that's T.H.A.N.'s concern, maybe we can have that

11:31:19 discussion with the larger newspapers and other vendors

11:31:25 anyway who would be the ones that would possibly sue us

11:31:27 and see if that notion might really conflict with their

11:31:30 practice anyway.

11:31:36 But my motion would be to direct staff to work with

11:31:41 T.H.A.N. to address some of their issues, not

11:31:44 necessarily to comply with all of their issues, but to

11:31:47 discuss some of their issues, take that discussion

11:31:52 perhaps in conjunction, meet with the two major

11:31:54 newspapers and any other interested parties who are

11:31:57 doing this type of business, and get back with us in a

11:32:00 month.

11:32:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

11:32:02 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Whoever is opposed to this should

11:32:06 have been here.

11:32:06 This has been on our docket since November.

11:32:10 So I'm sure if T.H.A.N. or whoever --




11:32:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: They are here.

11:32:15 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Did they speak on it?

11:32:24 >> Spencer Kass for the Virginia park neighborhood.

11:32:27 In November I was the first one down here and first to

11:32:30 address.

11:32:30 This has been going on for quite some time.

11:32:32 The reason for my newest objection is because at the

11:32:34 last hearing, staff wanted to change the ordinance, and

11:32:39 now I am objecting to all the changes that staff made

11:32:41 because the letter that was sent in by the

11:32:42 publications.

11:32:43 So I want to gob through.

11:32:45 First of all, they are putting these things in

11:32:46 residential zones.

11:32:48 You can go into Virginia park, the border between

11:32:51 Virginia park and Palma Ceia, see that on residential

11:32:55 right-of-way, in front of houses.

11:32:58 First of all, I believe that the newspapers -- the law

11:33:03 should be applied equally to them as it is everybody

11:33:05 else.

11:33:06 If I have to do a site plan, they have to do a site

11:33:08 plan.




11:33:09 When I want to put a little oh sign in front of my

11:33:11 building, charges me $300, do a site plan.

11:33:15 Magically they can do their theirs for 50 bucks.

11:33:20 I don't know what the administration is trying to say.

11:33:22 Are they saying the signed letter from the newspaper is

11:33:24 better than assigned letter from a small business?

11:33:27 Are you trying to call us liars in the small business

11:33:30 community and somehow they are better than the rest of

11:33:32 us?

11:33:32 I don't understand that.

11:33:35 You can ban these things outright.

11:33:37 The simple thing is just ban them all.

11:33:39 That's completely Constitutional. You can say no news

11:33:42 racks anywhere. They don't have a rate to put their

11:33:45 news racks wherever they feel like.

11:33:47 The chains of news racks because the way the statute

11:33:49 has been changed, you can chain them to a fire hydrant.

11:33:52 You can chain them in Ybor to one of those poles that

11:33:56 supports the second story overhang.

11:33:58 You can chain them to that.

11:34:00 It's beyond me that as a neighborhood association

11:34:03 president, if I find one of these that I don't like, I




11:34:05 have to pay that on the site plan.

11:34:08 I can then go to the city and complain that they are

11:34:10 not in compliance with the law.

11:34:11 If they want to put these in, there's nothing that

11:34:14 stops you from doing a full blown site plan and the

11:34:17 worst offenders are the little plastic ones which are

11:34:20 the worst.

11:34:20 Rights now we have homeless people sticking their

11:34:23 belongings in there during the day.

11:34:25 You could go to the CVS on Dale Mabry and Kennedy and

11:34:28 that's what they do.

11:34:29 There's about six homeless people.

11:34:30 They take their possessions, puts them into the little

11:34:33 plastic ones, just open them and shove your stuff in

11:34:36 there.

11:34:37 And under this ordinance, you made it easiest for the

11:34:40 junkiest ones to go all over the place.

11:34:43 They are the ones who just don't have to pay the fee.

11:34:46 So respectfully, let's continues it for six months.

11:34:51 That's fine with me.

11:34:51 I really think the neighborhood should be involved.

11:34:54 It's the least that can be done.




11:34:56 I think we have a much better agreement on the

11:34:57 billboards because the neighborhoods were involved in a

11:35:00 day-to-day basis in negotiating this.

11:35:03 If you look at where we started on the billboards and

11:35:05 whereby we ended up today you will see a much better

11:35:08 agreements and there's no rush to do this today.

11:35:10 Thank you.

11:35:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker.

11:35:12 >> Jim LEY, a resident of Virginia park actually on San

11:35:20 Pedro street but also here today as a lawyer for the

11:35:22 "The Tampa Tribune" and I want to thank you council for

11:35:24 the time you have spent on this issue, and time has

11:35:26 been spent on it.

11:35:27 I also want to try to correct some misimpressions that

11:35:30 it sounds like folks have about what the proposed

11:35:33 ordinance, even in its current form would do.

11:35:36 Because there's some things that have been told to you

11:35:38 all today that just aren't right.

11:35:40 First of all, if a rack ends up in a site triangle that

11:35:47 can be removed at any time.

11:35:48 The ordinance is very clear and if there are safety

11:35:50 issues about placement of a rack, this ordinance as it




11:35:53 was originally proposed in November and in its currents

11:35:57 form would allow citizens to call and complain, no site

11:36:00 plan needs to be drawn up to complain, no license is

11:36:04 given to put a rack in an illegal location merely

11:36:10 because of permit issues.

11:36:12 So that concern is inaccurate.

11:36:13 It's not a problem under the ordinance that is proposed

11:36:15 before you.

11:36:16 Secondly, the concern just raised about a mastic news

11:36:20 rack is also incorrect.

11:36:21 The ordinance would prohibit plastic news racks.

11:36:25 They would be illegal under this proposed ordinance.

11:36:27 That also is not something that you all need to be

11:36:29 worried about today.

11:36:30 We do have some concerns about the fee issue.

11:36:33 I raised that with you all before.

11:36:35 But as Ms. Kert pointed out, we understand that staff

11:36:38 is still working on a draft resolution that will

11:36:42 present that issue to council directly.

11:36:44 I shared some comments on that, but we think it's

11:36:46 appropriate to address those more fully when that

11:36:49 resolution comes before council.




11:36:51 So we don't see a problem with moving forward today as

11:36:54 its before you, because the concerns you have heard

11:36:56 this morning just aren't accurate.

11:36:59 The only concern we continue the to have is with regard

11:37:04 to chaining racks.

11:37:07 I should also correct one objection that was raised

11:37:10 this mortgage.

11:37:10 The ordinance as proposed before the council today

11:37:14 would prohibit chaining the racks to city owned traffic

11:37:18 signs, utility poles and traffic control devices.

11:37:20 Our position is we would like that prohibition limited

11:37:22 to those city-owned fixtures that if a newspaper wants

11:37:26 to work out an arrangement with Tampa Electric, or

11:37:29 someone else, to attach racks securely so that they are

11:37:33 less likely to be vandalized and are more safe, then I

11:37:37 think there ought to be freedom to do that.

11:37:39 But this ordinance would not automatically give a rack

11:37:42 owner permission to chain a rack to someone else's

11:37:46 property.

11:37:46 It would simply say that that something, the people

11:37:48 involved can work out for themselves, that City Council

11:37:51 is simply going to say our position is those racks




11:37:54 ought not to be chained to city devices.

11:37:57 So that's all I have for today.

11:37:59 Thank you, council.

11:37:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else like to speak?

11:38:04 Council, what's your pleasure?

11:38:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll row state my motion, but

11:38:10 actually, you think we are going to need 60 days by the

11:38:16 time they meet and wrestle with the issues that have

11:38:19 been raised.

11:38:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'll second that.

11:38:22 For the record, there was only two council members who

11:38:25 did not participate in the first reading and supporting

11:38:28 this ordinance.

11:38:29 Ms. Saul-Sena was absent and I voted no.

11:38:31 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second on the

11:38:34 floor.

11:38:34 All in favor of the motion say Aye.

11:38:35 Opposed, Nay.

11:38:40 Sixty days, Mrs. Kert?

11:38:42 Thank you.

11:38:42 We are going to go to item 67.

11:38:55 >> Marc Hamlin from the police department reference




11:38:59 item 67.

11:39:02 Contrary to some of the guest speakers, we haven't been

11:39:08 ignoring this issue.

11:39:09 We are here to report in 2009 we increased our

11:39:12 enforcement on this issue over 60%.

11:39:16 We wrote 716 more citations for loud music for motor

11:39:20 vehicles, in 2009 than we did in 2008.

11:39:25 To give you the totals we wrote 1882 tickets in 2009

11:39:29 just for that violation.

11:39:30 And our goal is to keep the enforcement at that level,

11:39:34 or even increase it more in 2010, and right at this

11:39:38 point we are about 19 less, the first two months of the

11:39:42 year, so we are on track.

11:39:43 Just a small knockdown.

11:39:45 And we are going to keep talking to our officers about

11:39:48 that.

11:39:48 This remains a priority.

11:39:49 It's part of our community policing efforts.

11:39:52 We encourage the public to call us.

11:39:54 We are seeing less complaints at neighborhood watch

11:39:56 meetings and things like that.

11:39:58 But you can tell by the amount of citations written




11:40:00 it's still an issue.

11:40:03 We are fully supportive of what Mr. Daniels said about

11:40:06 the state statute being increased to a moving

11:40:08 violation, that would give us more teeth.

11:40:10 We would continue to issue the citations but obviously

11:40:12 two points on your license is a lot better than a $101

11:40:17 fine and I think would go a long way around the state

11:40:19 not only in Tampa to curtail the activity.

11:40:25 I'm willing to take any questions.

11:40:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to thank you for your

11:40:32 stepped-up enforcement.

11:40:33 I think that perhaps the cold weather, people are

11:40:36 keeping their windows rolled up so you don't hear the

11:40:39 sound as much.

11:40:40 But undoubtedly it will eventually get warm here, and

11:40:43 I'm really glad that you are paying so much attention.

11:40:45 And I appreciate your endorsement of the state statute

11:40:49 which would allow this to be addressed on a statewide

11:40:51 basis.

11:40:52 Real quickly, one of the folks in the Channel District

11:40:56 was saying that there's a problem there with very loud

11:41:00 music at night, and that you all have had some trouble




11:41:04 perhaps with your equipment.

11:41:06 Is there anything that council can do to help you get

11:41:09 your equipment in order?

11:41:11 Do you have enough?

11:41:12 >> I was unaware when I heard that information.

11:41:15 That's not been brought to our attention.

11:41:16 But I certainly took notes while he was speaking.

11:41:19 I'll loon into it.

11:41:20 We have equipment in the district 3 area.

11:41:24 You are familiar with the ordinance on loud music from

11:41:26 the properties and the property line readings.

11:41:28 Channelside district, downtown district, also Ybor

11:41:31 City, we can do random readings on the weekends.

11:41:34 We don't need a complainant.

11:41:35 And that's part of our normal protocol on the weekends

11:41:38 down in Ybor City, Channelside, is to do those random

11:41:40 readings.

11:41:41 I would still encourage residents to call us like you

11:41:43 said, because some of the music might be coming from

11:41:46 vehicles and things like that.

11:41:47 And we could issue citations.

11:41:49 >> I have an additional question.




11:41:52 We are adjusts at the end of construction of an

11:41:54 additional parking structure in Channelside across from

11:41:57 the clubs where immediately across from where a lot of

11:42:02 people live.

11:42:04 There's a concern that once this parking structure is

11:42:06 completed and people go back to their cars at night

11:42:08 that there is going to be a lot of noise coming from

11:42:12 the folks returning to their vehicles.

11:42:14 Do you -- does the police department work with the

11:42:17 security people who represent the different parking

11:42:21 structures, do they have sound meeters? And if they

11:42:23 were to, could they call you all for enforcement?

11:42:26 >> Well, anyone can call us for enforcement.

11:42:28 If it's coming from a vehicle, it has to be audible

11:42:31 over 25 feet, and the officer has to witness that

11:42:34 infraction to write the ticket.

11:42:36 So going back to some of the earlier information I

11:42:39 passed on, we want the people to call us whether it's

11:42:43 security, whether it's the residents, or anybody to

11:42:45 call us and alert us to those issues.

11:42:47 The officer that works in that area will always work in

11:42:50 that area.




11:42:51 So if they know that a chronic problem is occurring in

11:42:54 a certain location, then they can take proactive

11:42:57 measures to be there at 3:00 in the morning and

11:42:59 hopefully write some tickets, or no matter, do what it

11:43:03 takes to curtail the problem.

11:43:04 >> Thank you so much.

11:43:05 I'll share that information with those people.

11:43:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If there are no other questions,

11:43:10 council, adjusts a question that came up that was

11:43:12 raised.

11:43:13 The original motion wags to appear and provide a

11:43:15 written and visual semiannual report.

11:43:17 The next semiannual report is scheduled to be provided

11:43:20 per your sended agendas on September 2nd of 2010.

11:43:23 The question, council, was whether you wished to have

11:43:26 the deputy chief come to council, or would a written

11:43:30 report suffice?

11:43:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think it's helpful for to you

11:43:33 come in a month.

11:43:33 >> Put your name on the record for the clerk.

11:43:37 >> Marc Hamlin, assistant chief of police.

11:43:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.




11:43:42 We go back to item number 64.

11:43:48 The TECO franchise.

11:43:50 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Administrator for public works,

11:43:58 utility services.

11:43:59 Council members, we provided a written response as

11:44:02 requested previously.

11:44:04 I think the council chose not to take this up.

11:44:07 But IRV Lee had written a memo that's dated February

11:44:11 12th as provided to you prior to the last meeting.

11:44:18 I can read it to you, or provide some information on

11:44:21 there.

11:44:21 We have been meeting with TECO on a regular basis.

11:44:24 This had to do specifically with streetlights, and

11:44:28 outage of streetlights and the costs for lights being

11:44:31 out, and again we are working with TECO in that regard.

11:44:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The I thought -- maybe there was

11:44:44 some confusion on this.

11:44:45 I thought when the original motion came up -- and maybe

11:44:47 you can clarify, Linda -- that you wanted a report

11:44:52 on -- when council passed the TECO franchise agreement,

11:44:58 against my vote, and maybe yours as well, Linda, the

11:45:04 administration, specifically the mayor, said that she




11:45:07 was going to start having meetings with community

11:45:09 members, and TECO, to discuss environmental issues, and

11:45:13 the energy issues, and that's when the energy situation

11:45:24 was the number one issue and now under the

11:45:26 circumstances jobs and the economy.

11:45:27 But at that time, you know, that was what was going on

11:45:29 over on the other side of the city government.

11:45:32 I thought that's where your motion was coming from.

11:45:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Well, it was that and also the

11:45:37 issue of lights.

11:45:40 One of the things that came out in our public

11:45:41 discussion is that we don't have a complete inventory

11:45:45 of lights, and we don't have a great way of getting

11:45:49 TECO to replace bulbs when they are needed and to have

11:45:53 a way that they are penalized if they don't replace

11:45:56 them, and they have no incentive or they didn't report

11:46:00 to us which clubs are L.E.D. bulbs which salve energy,

11:46:06 and also last but not least there was discussion about

11:46:08 the fact if you wanted to do than a ornamental light,

11:46:11 you are only allowed to use one of their like five

11:46:13 choices which were very limited, not very aesthetic,

11:46:16 and very expensive.




11:46:18 And they are supposed to be some negotiation in getting

11:46:21 back to us on that.

11:46:23 For example, on Kennedy Boulevard, where we had certain

11:46:26 design standards, those lights are like $5,000 each.

11:46:31 And I know that you can get them less expensive other

11:46:34 places.

11:46:34 But we require because of our relationship with TECO

11:46:40 that the folks only go through TECO and they are

11:46:43 limited even in more expensive, and so we need to

11:46:46 have -- we need to expand the choices and lower the

11:46:49 prices.

11:46:50 But the amount of outages is one of the key issues.

11:46:52 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: You had several questions in there.

11:46:57 I would be glad to answer any of them if you narrow

11:47:01 them down to one at a time.

11:47:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: At a time, sorry.

11:47:04 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Again we have been dealing with

11:47:06 TECO. We have been working on the inventory.

11:47:08 We do have a much better grasp today of the total

11:47:10 inventory, both work on their side and our side.

11:47:14 We have been going through the city and reviewing and

11:47:17 looking at every single light to see what's out, and if




11:47:22 we are having difficulty.

11:47:23 We did an actual kind of a snapshot survey to get a

11:47:29 feel for how many lights are out at any one time.

11:47:33 And we determined that based on our survey -- an it's

11:47:36 not really a great scientific survey -- but about 97%

11:47:41 of the lights are on, and operating at any one time.

11:47:44 We have determined with TECO that they take about 72

11:47:48 hours on average to replace a light or repair a light

11:47:51 once it's reported to them.

11:47:53 We use various means, mostly, but we see, and what

11:47:58 citizens complain and say that there's an outage, we'll

11:48:01 take any input we can get reporting an out-of-service

11:48:06 light, and we will get it back in service as quickly as

11:48:09 we can.

11:48:10 With regard to light standards and fixtures, we could

11:48:14 probably spend a couple of days talking about that.

11:48:18 TECO does have standards, the poles, and the fixtures,

11:48:22 and anyone can lease them, rent them.

11:48:27 You will pay on a regular basis for them.

11:48:31 Or you could use other ones.

11:48:33 In fact, in our CRAs, they wants to -- want to use

11:48:36 different poles and fixtures.




11:48:40 The issue is, TECO does not repair them or restore

11:48:43 them.

11:48:43 So again there's a whole lot that can be talked about

11:48:46 with regard to types of poles and fixtures.

11:48:50 TECO does have a limited group.

11:48:52 You can use them.

11:48:53 It's not required.

11:48:54 Again we have a city standard which is a pole, and

11:49:01 that's the standard throughout the city.

11:49:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Excuse me.

11:49:04 And energy saving lights?

11:49:09 By the way, if 97% are on, are we paying 97% or paying

11:49:15 for 100 percent?

11:49:15 >> The reason we did that snapshot was to in fact get a

11:49:18 credit for those lights that are not on.

11:49:20 That's correct.

11:49:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Has that started yet in terms of

11:49:23 their bill and our paying?

11:49:26 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: I have not seen that exact bill.

11:49:27 I will check and be glad to give you that information,

11:49:30 whether or not that credit has occurred in this

11:49:32 payment.




11:49:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And the L.E.D. lights?

11:49:38 >> We have in a L.E.D. streetlights in the system that

11:49:42 I am aware of at this time.

11:49:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: One of the things, of course,

11:49:47 unsuccessful in getting to us include in our contract

11:49:50 are 25-year franchise agreement, is any kind of

11:49:54 incentive or requirement that they do -- that they

11:49:58 change to L.E.D. lights.

11:50:00 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: And we are still looking at the

11:50:03 possibility.

11:50:04 As you know, we are using L.E.D. lights for our

11:50:06 signals.

11:50:07 And that sort of thing wherever we can use them.

11:50:12 Where there's a requirement for a certain light level

11:50:14 to be on the streets, where we are still researching,

11:50:18 and I'm sure that the industrial is still improving the

11:50:21 quality of those L.E.D.s, we would love to have them

11:50:26 from an energy cost standpoint, but we also have to

11:50:28 have sufficient light on the roads.

11:50:30 >> Of course.

11:50:31 But they are very bright.

11:50:32 But the point is, the City of Tampa paying for our




11:50:39 electricity as a real incentive in being conserving and

11:50:42 save all of us money.

11:50:43 There's no incentive that our electric company has in

11:50:48 saving our money.

11:50:50 So it's up to us as the city to insist upon more

11:50:54 conservative cost-saving measures.

11:50:56 >> We are continuing to look into that.

11:50:59 Again, when we feel that we can do that safely, we will

11:51:03 be doing that.

11:51:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Mulhern?

11:51:11 >>MARY MULHERN: What do you mean by safely?

11:51:13 >>> I mean adequate light.

11:51:15 >>MARY MULHERN: Illumination?

11:51:17 >>> Yes.

11:51:18 >>MARY MULHERN: I saw a lot of cities that are

11:51:20 complaining changing over completely to L.E.D. lights.

11:51:23 >>> He can give you more detail but the issue is they

11:51:29 give off less light energy out to the streets.

11:51:33 You have to go through and analyze how and when

11:51:36 additional poles would need to be erected to make that

11:51:38 change.

11:51:39 That's part of what Steve's team is looking at right




11:51:41 now.

11:51:41 So that's kind of in a nutshell, that's part of that

11:51:45 issue that we need to make sure that the light coverage

11:51:48 on the street is sufficient to meet our safety

11:51:50 obligations in achieving the efficiency desire.

11:51:53 >>MARY MULHERN: Were you done with your questions?

11:51:59 Okay.

11:52:00 I have a question, and I don't know that it was part of

11:52:02 this original motion when we asked you to talk about

11:52:06 TECO.

11:52:07 But part of the discussion over the franchise agreement

11:52:12 resulted in a committee, a citizens committee that's

11:52:16 been meeting regularly to advise?

11:52:18 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: I am going to have to let someone

11:52:20 else answer those questions.

11:52:22 I don't know if Thom Snelling has any information on

11:52:25 that or not, but I don't know.

11:52:34 >>MARY MULHERN: So Thom --

11:52:36 >>THOM SNELLING: Good morning.

11:52:37 Growth management.

11:52:38 >>MARY MULHERN: I know you have been working with that

11:52:40 committee.




11:52:41 >>THOM SNELLING: We have been working with that

11:52:42 committee for the past year.

11:52:43 They have just wrapped up their recommendations.

11:52:45 They are going to be presenting those recommendations

11:52:47 to the mayor on March 25th.

11:52:51 Immediately, as soon as they are presented to the

11:52:52 mayor, I am going to immediately set up a time and

11:52:55 workshops so we can have the same conversation with

11:52:57 council, make the same presentation to council.

11:52:59 >>MARY MULHERN: Can we get an e-mail to us, to council

11:53:02 at the same time as to pam.iorio?

11:53:10 >> It's a public documents, yes, ma'am.

11:53:12 >> A lot of times they come in snail mail and we have

11:53:14 to read about it in the Tribune.

11:53:16 >>> With my other hat, I do prefer most things by

11:53:20 electronic.

11:53:21 >>MARY MULHERN: That's great to hear.

11:53:23 Thank you.

11:53:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Don't go too far.

11:53:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: When he's done I will make a

11:53:31 motion.

11:53:32 >>GWEN MILLER: As soon as we make a motion we will be




11:53:34 ready for you.

11:53:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Daignault, you are making

11:53:39 progress and that's a good thing.

11:53:40 And I'm glad we have begun to assess the number of

11:53:42 lights we are paying for and when we might get a

11:53:45 credit.

11:53:45 When do you think, 30 days or 60 days, that you might

11:53:48 be able to get back to us with how we are doing on

11:53:51 that?

11:53:51 >> I will be glad to send you an e-mail.

11:53:53 I'll do that in the next couple of days to let you know

11:53:55 where we are in that process.

11:53:56 >> Well, what I would like, because there are

11:53:59 several -- and I would be happy to meet with you

11:54:01 privately about the standards and what the rules are,

11:54:05 because that's something that I heard concern about, we

11:54:08 don't need to take up everybody's time.

11:54:10 So I would like to request a report back for you to

11:54:14 appear and report on that in 60 days.

11:54:19 On the credit, the number of lights that are out.

11:54:22 >>> I would be glad to do that.

11:54:23 >> The way I understand, people report now lights being




11:54:26 out, is you have to somehow look at the number on the

11:54:32 light post.

11:54:33 But the challenge is with the light is out, you can't

11:54:36 see it and you usually only realize it's out at night.

11:54:39 >>> We have been working through that issue as well.

11:54:43 TECO, in their database, has the number of the pole,

11:54:49 and if we have addresses so we are we are working with

11:54:54 them to cross reference for that very purpose.

11:54:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's great.

11:54:57 Maybe when you come back in 60 days you can update that

11:54:59 to us.

11:55:00 It's a concern.

11:55:02 And I'm glad that we will be getting our money's worth.

11:55:05 That's very important.

11:55:05 And also when lights are on poles, and the poles are

11:55:11 not adequately tended, they are at angles, they are

11:55:15 kind of held together with bailing wire which we saw in

11:55:19 a number of photographs in this discussion, that there

11:55:20 will be a Wray to report that and that will be

11:55:24 corrected and that we have some sort of feedback loop

11:55:28 to the electric company so they are able to know that

11:55:31 it's not right and correct it in the timely way.




11:55:34 >> We are meeting with them regularly, and it's an

11:55:37 advantage for both them and for us.

11:55:39 And so any of that information, if people would use the

11:55:44 customer service center, they can put it in on their

11:55:46 computer system or they can call us, and we will take

11:55:49 those things up, or identify those problems.

11:55:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.

11:55:53 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Daignault, don't run away,

11:55:57 please.

11:55:57 I have some streetlights out in my district and the

11:55:59 lights are out.

11:56:00 I am couldn't read the number so I went to my car and

11:56:02 got my flashlight and the numbers are there, they are

11:56:06 plain if you put a light on it.

11:56:07 Remembering in the past, we have gotten credit from

11:56:10 TECO.

11:56:13 We have been paying but they weren't lit.

11:56:15 That has happened already, hasn't it?

11:56:17 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Yes.

11:56:20 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Thank you.

11:56:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.

11:56:23 Now we go to item number 65.




11:56:25 >>THE CLERK: There was a motion on the floor.

11:56:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Oh, in I motion was to get a report

11:56:30 to appear and report back in 60 days.

11:56:33 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.

11:56:36 All in favor of the motion say Aye.

11:56:37 Opposed, Nay.

11:56:41 >>THOM SNELLING: Growth management development

11:56:43 services.

11:56:43 I'm here on item 65.

11:56:47 There's two reports.

11:56:47 Both of those documents were transmitted electronically

11:56:50 prior to the February 18th meeting, and it should

11:56:53 be available.

11:56:56 It's on your electronic agenda as well.

11:56:58 You can look at those and follow it.

11:57:00 The first document is the -- from the in-fill and

11:57:05 sustainability workshops held by the Planning

11:57:07 Commission.

11:57:09 Mr. Hunter came to council sometime back, made his

11:57:13 presentation, and talked about the workshop, what it

11:57:15 was, what they achieved, what they their intentions

11:57:18 were.




11:57:18 But one thing that didn't happen in that report was --

11:57:22 and it wasn't intended to -- they never really looked

11:57:25 at the current city policies, programs, codes,

11:57:28 ordinances, that existed, that addressed a great deal

11:57:32 of those kinds of concerns that came from that

11:57:34 workshop.

11:57:35 And what the matrix does, it shows you --

11:57:40 >> Could you put this up so we can see it?

11:57:43 >>THOM SNELLING: I can show you the copy that I have,

11:57:45 yes.

11:58:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Just start talking and it will come on.

11:58:13 >>THOM SNELLING: In the first column we identified the

11:58:14 first issues identified throughout the workshop and it

11:58:16 goes on for pages.

11:58:18 What I have done, what our staff has done is put

11:58:21 together the different types of policies that existed

11:58:23 in our existing codes and regulations.

11:58:27 Some of the items that are underway now with the Land

11:58:29 Development Coordination and other growth management

11:58:32 divisions, as well as some of the efforts that are

11:58:35 going on in transit-oriented development, as well as in

11:58:38 the community planning for code effort both in Seminole




11:58:44 Heights as well as on 40th Street.

11:58:46 So after we laid it out, in that fashion, you can see

11:58:51 that there's really a great deal of the issues and the

11:58:54 concerns were already addressed.

11:58:58 Addressed to a greater degree.

11:59:00 I'm sorry?

11:59:05 Basically, when it was organized in this fashion, we

11:59:10 put it together in the fashion of this matrix.

11:59:12 What this allows us to do is to take a look and to see

11:59:16 where other efforts can happen and what kind of

11:59:21 inventory we have and where we have been successful.

11:59:23 So it's going to be a very useful tool as we continue

11:59:26 to move forward, work with initiatives taking place in

11:59:30 the comprehensive plan as well as other current and

11:59:32 future city initiatives.

11:59:36 With that I will be happy to answer any questions if

11:59:38 you have any.

11:59:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I know we are going through the

11:59:41 process.

11:59:43 When will we see these points of work that are in

11:59:49 process adopted and able for use?

11:59:54 >>THOM SNELLING: The vision document for Seminole




11:59:55 Heights I think has already been to council.

11:59:58 The regulatory plan, Gloria Moreda, Cathy Coyle and

12:00:02 their staff I think are just finishing it up and for

12:00:06 review for all the staff.

12:00:08 I think it will be in front of you relatively shortly.

12:00:11 I can find out and send an e-mail as to what timetable.

12:00:14 >> We are talking summer?

12:00:16 >> Yeah, I think that's probably -- in terms of when

12:00:21 you get to see it?

12:00:22 Ma'am, I don't know how to answer exactly the

12:00:27 timetable.

12:00:28 I don't want to say, yeah, they will be here in the

12:00:30 summer.

12:00:31 If anybody is looking, if they have a time frame,

12:00:33 please come by and let us know what that time frame is.

12:00:36 >> But there are many things we can do that, for

12:00:38 example, let's say somebody wants to build a building

12:00:41 that has low water flow, an apartment, and we charge

12:00:47 them as if it was regular water flow in terms of the

12:00:50 impact.

12:00:52 We are not crediting in terms of implementation.

12:00:55 We don't have any structure right now to credit people




12:00:59 in the community who are doing things, building

12:01:01 buildings, single-family or commercial or multifamily,

12:01:06 that actually are having a lesser impact and are more

12:01:10 sustainable.

12:01:13 >>THOM SNELLING: That issue in terms of the water --

12:01:17 and in terms of the impact, I know that that has come

12:01:21 up, in the discussion, and I know that when you build

12:01:27 your building, your multifamily house, single-family,

12:01:31 commercial, whatever, the less you charge, the less

12:01:34 impact you have --

12:01:34 >> but we still have the same impact fees.

12:01:37 >> And those are -- I'm not comfortable addressing

12:01:41 exactly how the impact fees are structured.

12:01:43 >> Is it something that's on your radar screen, you

12:01:46 will be working through?

12:01:47 My concern is that you are so busy with this being half

12:01:51 of your job that you can't get to some of these things

12:01:53 that are important.

12:01:54 >>> I know that Brad Baird is very aware of the impact

12:01:59 fee issue and how it relates to the bonding

12:02:01 requirements that wave to pay off those bonds,

12:02:03 et cetera.




12:02:04 I know he's aware of that, and I know he's focused on

12:02:06 trying to improve those things.

12:02:07 >> You can't address it, so we should ask Brad.

12:02:12 That's fine.

12:02:13 Okay.

12:02:13 >>> I apologize.

12:02:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Mulhern.

12:02:17 >>MARY MULHERN: Thom, didn't we receive a grant to do

12:02:23 the measurement of our carbon footprint?

12:02:28 >>> Yes.

12:02:29 These my second document, my green report.

12:02:31 That's part of my green report I was going to talk

12:02:34 about.

12:02:35 >> You. Gotten there yet?

12:02:36 >>> Not yet.

12:02:37 This is just a report from the Planning Commission and

12:02:39 what we did from that because Mrs. Miller came and said

12:02:42 this is what we are doing in response to the report and

12:02:44 how it's helping us address the organization.

12:02:47 >>MARY MULHERN: I thought you were done.

12:02:49 Sorry.

12:02:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?




12:02:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I had the same question, because

12:02:55 the ordinance says we'll identify our carbon fought

12:02:58 print.

12:02:59 So tell us how we are doing that.

12:03:03 >>THOM SNELLING: The second document that you have is

12:03:05 really my green report.

12:03:07 And that is based on a report -- it goes from fiscal

12:03:11 year to fiscal year, not calendar year, so everything

12:03:14 that's in that document, sustainability report, touches

12:03:18 on all of the various activities the city has done over

12:03:21 the past year between September of '08 and October of

12:03:26 '08 and September of '09.

12:03:29 That's what this report represents.

12:03:30 There's been other activities that have taken place

12:03:32 between that, and that will show up in the next report.

12:03:36 I will answer the specific question.

12:03:37 We did get a grant, 3.7 million, as you know,

12:03:40 identified in here.

12:03:43 There's three major projects with the changeout of the

12:03:46 L.E.D. lights for traffic signals, and upgrading

12:03:49 parking garages, and also installing some energy

12:03:52 management systems.




12:03:53 One of the management systems will be in this building

12:03:55 as well.

12:03:56 On the greenhouse gas emissions, I'm I have the RFP out

12:04:01 and ready for bid on April 1st is when I'm planning

12:04:04 to have it go out, and then have that study done within

12:04:06 the six-month period.

12:04:07 Probably it will be shorter, but I would rather say six

12:04:10 months and deliver in the four rather than the other

12:04:14 way around.

12:04:15 But we have a grant to have that study done.

12:04:18 And that was part of the EGBS.

12:04:21 We did not receive that grant until the end of October

12:04:23 of last year.

12:04:24 So that's when we had the money to do it, was to do

12:04:29 that.

12:04:29 >>MARY MULHERN: (off microphone) so you have the RFP?

12:04:34 >> We are working on it now, ma'am.

12:04:36 I'm hoping April 1st.

12:04:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Snelling, you are a good guy.

12:04:41 But six months, six months when we will have the money

12:04:44 before this goes out, you could have gotten the

12:04:46 write-up done, and after we got the money at the




12:04:49 beginning of October, sent it out.

12:04:53 I am just disappointed because we all know that this is

12:04:57 really important.

12:04:58 I know you know it's important.

12:04:59 And I wish we were working in a more timely way.

12:05:03 Council first brought this issue up years ago, and we

12:05:06 have been working toward this.

12:05:07 And frankly, council has been pushing very, very hard.

12:05:11 And I know you are trying.

12:05:12 But I say to the administration, they need to give you

12:05:16 all of your time to work on this, or somebody.

12:05:18 It's really, really important.

12:05:19 And ultimately we'll save money.

12:05:22 We will save money based on this.

12:05:24 As our carbon footprint shrinks, our costs shrink, and

12:05:30 this is a priority to our community.

12:05:31 >>> Having the inventory done is important, and it is a

12:05:36 priority for us.

12:05:38 That's not to say that -- if you looked at the report

12:05:40 you will see that there are numerous activities that

12:05:42 have taken place over the course of the year that do

12:05:44 exactly that.




12:05:45 But that is already reducing the carbon footprint.

12:05:48 We are planting trees, and that's increasing -- has

12:05:52 greater ability to sequester more carbon.

12:05:57 It's not like we are waiting for that report to be done

12:05:59 before taking any action to address greenhouse

12:06:02 emissions.

12:06:04 Mrs. Brickhouse was talking about when they scheduled

12:06:07 after holiday pickups.

12:06:08 That saved about 20,000-tons of carbon emissions into

12:06:13 the air, reduced the gallons of water by 900 gallons a

12:06:16 year.

12:06:17 So those things all do exactly what you say.

12:06:19 They are reducing the amount of greenhouse gas

12:06:21 emissions.

12:06:22 I not like we are waiting and we have been pushing Ford

12:06:26 in other small areas.

12:06:27 And you will seal that all of those areas, it really

12:06:29 touches every part of the city.

12:06:30 And there's a lot of activity in here that does reduce

12:06:32 the carbon footprint.

12:06:34 So we are not waiting.

12:06:35 The inventory, I know you're anxious.




12:06:38 I'm anxious to get it going as well.

12:06:39 >> We are going to lose our quorum.

12:06:41 We have to quit.

12:06:42 >>MARY MULHERN: Let me say one thing.

12:06:45 >> He has to go.

12:06:46 He's going to walk out.

12:06:47 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.

12:06:49 Thom, thank you.

12:06:50 He's the only person we have that we can ask for any

12:06:52 kind of sustainability help.

12:06:54 And I think you are doing an incredible job with very

12:07:00 little help.

12:07:01 And I think it is shameful that the city isn't giving

12:07:07 you more help.

12:07:10 More authority.

12:07:13 And a budget.

12:07:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And time.

12:07:16 >>THOM SNELLING: It's a very tough time.

12:07:17 We have internal committees working on that.

12:07:19 And every department is contributing pieces to make

12:07:21 this thing happen.

12:07:22 It's not just me.




12:07:23 You look at your report, you are going to see that that

12:07:25 permeates throughout the entire organization.

12:07:27 Stuff that I don't know that it's going on and they are

12:07:31 reporting to me that these are sustainable things that

12:07:34 that are taking place.

12:07:35 So it's really throughout the organization.

12:07:37 I'm the coordinate our of some of that stuff.

12:07:40 I try to make sure it stays documented and continues

12:07:42 and moves forward in different opportunities.

12:07:44 A lot of the existing people that are there are taking

12:07:47 incremental steps in a positive direction.

12:07:49 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.

12:07:51 >>GWEN MILLER: We are going to recess until 1:30.

12:07:55 (City Council meeting in recess)

13:31:04

13:31:21

13:31:21 >>CHAIRMAN: Roll call.

13:44:13 [Roll Call]

13:44:14 >> There are three items on the afternoon agenda that

13:44:18 can be resolved very quickly, and those people can move

13:44:20 on.

13:44:21 If council wishes to take up items 74, 76 and 77.




13:44:29 We can at least allow those people to leave.

13:44:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 77 was continued to April

13:44:34 15th.

13:44:34 >> So moved.

13:44:36 >> Second.

13:44:36 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.

13:44:38 All in favor of that motion say Aye.

13:44:39 Opposed, Nay.

13:44:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That number was which one?

13:44:43 >>GWEN MILLER: 77.

13:44:47 74.

13:44:48 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 74 is being rescheduled to April

13:44:52 15th, removed from the agenda today.

13:44:54 Is that correct?

13:44:55 That's the one that was misnoticed?

13:44:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.

13:44:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Removed from the agenda.

13:45:00 >>GWEN MILLER: And to be sculled April 15th.

13:45:04 >> So moved.

13:45:04 >> Second.

13:45:05 (Motion carried).

13:45:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Number 76 is an appeal hearing




13:45:10 regarding 1607 to 1609 north 22nd Avenue.

13:45:15 A decision from the Barrio Latino.

13:45:19 The petitioner is here.

13:45:20 If you could, they are requesting a 60-day continuance.

13:45:23 A motion to open the public hearing.

13:45:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to open.

13:45:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

13:45:28 (Motion carried).

13:45:29 >>> Good afternoon, members of the council.

13:45:31 My name is Michael la Barbera, 1907 West Kennedy

13:45:35 Boulevard.

13:45:37 In Tampa.

13:45:38 We are moving to continue this appeal hearing for 60

13:45:42 days.

13:45:42 We are attempting to donate this property and adjoining

13:45:46 lot to the Italian club, and they are having a lot of

13:45:50 issues and regulations as well as obtaining grants and

13:45:57 loans.

13:45:57 And it would be completely dispositive if we were able

13:46:02 to give this building to the Italian club and we would

13:46:05 request a 60-day continuance.

13:46:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You have presently nothing scheduled




13:46:10 for the afternoon of May 6th but you do have

13:46:12 afternoon alcoholic schedules for May 20th.

13:46:15 So either afternoon, at council's pleasure.

13:46:24 If you want to speak to the continuance.

13:46:26 >>GWEN MILLER: Does anyone want to speak to the

13:46:28 continuance of item number 77?

13:46:31 The continuance on item 77.

13:46:34 >> Move to continue to the 20th at 1:30.

13:46:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No, this is 76 E.

13:46:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Oh, 76, okay.

13:46:45 We have a motion then?

13:46:48 >> Mr. La Barbera, thanks for coming in.

13:46:52 Without getting to the meat or merits of your issue

13:46:54 which we are glad to continue for an additional 60

13:46:57 days, it's not your client's intent to be tear it down

13:47:00 in the meantime, correct?

13:47:01 >> No, sir.

13:47:02 We could not without a Barrio Latino authority to do

13:47:05 so.

13:47:07 We don't want it torn down.

13:47:09 We were between a rock and a hard place.

13:47:11 >> I understand.




13:47:14 Thank you.

13:47:14 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor say Aye.

13:47:15 Opposed, Nay.

13:47:16 Item 77 need to remove from the agenda.

13:47:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.

13:47:22 >> Second.

13:47:22 (Motion carried).

13:47:25 >> That's May 20th at 1:30?

13:47:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes, that's correct.

13:47:29 I would like to put on the record from Mr. Joseph

13:47:32 Caetano, I would like to ask council members to at the

13:47:38 hearing item 66 and 67, please refrain from taking

13:47:41 action and voting so that I may have a vote on the

13:47:43 issue.

13:47:44 If council wishes to take any action, I ask that the

13:47:46 item be continued to the next regular meeting to allow

13:47:49 all council members to participate.

13:47:51 Thank you in advance for your courtesy to this matter.

13:47:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Madam Chairman.

13:47:55 I appreciate the request, but it seems to me that this

13:47:59 is an item that we took up two weeks ago, and now we

13:48:03 are taking it up now.




13:48:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: See where it goes.

13:48:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I don't want to prejudge whether we

13:48:11 take action.

13:48:11 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want to say that he may have an

13:48:17 opportunity to vote since we don't have a full council.

13:48:19 So if we take any action and we have four votes, it

13:48:23 will pass anyway.

13:48:24 And if it doesn't pass, then he will have an

13:48:27 opportunity to vote on it.

13:48:29 >>GWEN MILLER: He won't have an opportunity to vote.

13:48:34 >>MARY MULHERN: It won't matter, though, if we have

13:48:36 four votes for anything.

13:48:37 >>GWEN MILLER: We'll see where it goes.

13:48:39 >> Six of one, half dozen of another.

13:48:44 >> We then go to item 66.

13:48:48 >>> Good afternoon.

13:48:53 Honorable members of Tampa City Council, Santiago

13:48:55 Corrado, neighborhood services administrator.

13:48:58 Just for the sake of clarity, a number of the speakers

13:49:02 this morning that were referring to fees refer to item

13:49:05 number 66 as dealing with fees.

13:49:08 Item 66 deals with madam parks director Karen Palus




13:49:15 appearing and providing an executive summary on the

13:49:17 protection of the urban tree canopy.

13:49:19 She's already provided a report ahead of time.

13:49:21 And if you have any questions for her on item 66, we

13:49:24 could do that at this point.

13:49:27 Item 68 deals with two items, and we could certainly

13:49:29 speak to these under item 68.

13:49:32 So 66 has to do with the protection of the urban tree

13:49:35 canopy.

13:49:36 Downtown know if anyone has any questions for Mrs.

13:49:38 Palus after the report she submitted but she's

13:49:40 certainly here to answer those.

13:49:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Any questions?

13:49:43 Mrs. Saul-Sena?

13:49:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.

13:49:45 We had this fantastic survey done by a grant, the

13:49:52 University of Florida presented us with the findings,

13:49:55 and this is a follow-up.

13:49:57 And I just wondered -- I think it's the second page of

13:50:04 the report on protecting our urban forests.

13:50:07 It said utilizing the recommendations from the steering

13:50:11 committee, we anticipate the 2011 management plan --




13:50:15 and I just wondered, since it's only March of 2010, why

13:50:18 we have to wait till 2011 to implement the

13:50:22 recommendations.

13:50:22 >>KAREN PALUS: Parks and recreation director.

13:50:28 The item that you are referring to, Mrs. Saul-Sena, is

13:50:32 for July 2010 is actually when that analysis will come

13:50:35 before council to be awarded, and it will go through

13:50:39 the benchmarking, and the ecological analysis again.

13:50:44 This is the second portion of that.

13:50:45 Remember we did the five-year one initially.

13:50:47 Now we are doing the next one.

13:50:49 So we have that information along with what the

13:50:51 subcommittee had put together to bring that board, and

13:50:54 that's what we are using in this particular analysis as

13:50:58 far as that information.

13:50:59 That's going into the scope is what we came out of that

13:51:02 piece.

13:51:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: One of the things that -- things

13:51:07 that we had debate add couple of years ago, the good

13:51:09 news is we now attempt to protect grand trees.

13:51:13 And in the past, one of the things we were looking at

13:51:15 was what we call the mature trees, which aren't quite




13:51:19 grand but they are getting there, and if we don't

13:51:21 protect them, then they will never grow up to be grand.

13:51:25 And one of my understandings of what we are going to

13:51:28 try to do is figure out additional ways to protect

13:51:31 them.

13:51:32 And maybe I didn't read this properly, but my

13:51:35 understanding was select, locate, main train trees

13:51:41 appropriately to maximize benefits and minimize hazards

13:51:43 and conflicts of infrastructure.

13:51:45 We are trying to work on this.

13:51:46 Are we working on it now or waiting until 2011 to begin

13:51:50 to actually implement protections, to protect our tree

13:51:55 canopy?

13:51:56 >> If you go to the bottom paragraph where it says the

13:52:01 programs in our planning and design resource, based on

13:52:04 the following initiatives.

13:52:05 >> Which page?

13:52:06 >> It's the second page of the report.

13:52:10 You asked for things that were ongoing.

13:52:12 If you will look, there's a list of things that are

13:52:14 ongoing.

13:52:15 The big part of what our -- what we are working towards




13:52:20 now is really the education aspect, and a lot of work

13:52:24 in that with our neighborhood associations, they have

13:52:25 done a lot of work with our TECO groups, and doing

13:52:29 training, they are working very closely with our CSE

13:52:32 group as well, for the City of Tampa, Construction

13:52:35 Services Center.

13:52:37 So all of their folks, training and such, and working

13:52:41 hand in hand.

13:52:42 So there are a lot of initiatives that were from that

13:52:44 discussion, that the staff has been closely joined with

13:52:47 those two entities to work through those issues and be

13:52:49 able to work on the sustainability item.

13:52:52 These things that are moving forward right now, that I

13:52:54 think I mentioned to you before, is the survey that

13:52:57 will be going out to the neighborhoods, and that's

13:53:00 probably the middle of this month.

13:53:01 They are just doing their test piece now.

13:53:04 So that's getting ready to go out and will go out to

13:53:06 our neighborhood associations, so they have a chance to

13:53:09 weigh in on their entries, and they can use that in the

13:53:14 scope that will be putting together to the July 2010

13:53:18 analysis that will go out.




13:53:19 So that will be the next step.

13:53:21 >> So would it be appropriate if you were going to come

13:53:23 back to council, to come back in July, and you can

13:53:26 share with us what kind of survey is going to go out?

13:53:28 >> Well, the survey will be going out in March.

13:53:31 We can share with you the answers and the information

13:53:33 we received, but that's what they are using part of

13:53:35 that to go into the overall scope in 2011.

13:53:40 >> Maybe the last council meeting in July you could

13:53:43 appear and provide that report to us.

13:53:45 >> That would be great.

13:53:46 >> That would be in the form of a motion to have an

13:53:49 appearance and a report on the tree canopy.

13:53:51 >>> We have a motion and second.

13:53:54 All in favor say Aye.

13:53:56 Opposed, Nay.

13:53:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And just to follow-up.

13:53:59 I was at Seminole Heights garden center the other day

13:54:01 which is looking fabulous, but the contractor for TECO

13:54:05 came through there and just hacked up all the oaks in

13:54:07 that neighborhood recently and the neighbors were

13:54:10 livid.




13:54:10 And to whatever degree you communicate with them, it's

13:54:14 not acceptable.

13:54:16 And I assumed that the administration has some leverage

13:54:20 to --

13:54:23 >>KAREN PALUS: I can share with you what happened

13:54:24 since that incident since we came aware of that.

13:54:27 Our natural resources is now meeting with TECO in

13:54:30 advance of where they are going out to the

13:54:32 neighborhoods so that we are aware and we can look at

13:54:34 any conflicts or issues and work with them directly on

13:54:37 what we see and how they can really try to mitigate as

13:54:39 many issues in the neighborhood as possible.

13:54:41 But our staff is working very closely.

13:54:43 TECO has been very supportive in working with us, and

13:54:46 that's been much better the last neighborhood they did

13:54:49 in the South Tampa area, much better than what happened

13:54:53 in the Seminole area.

13:54:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.

13:54:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Other questions by council members?

13:54:58 Item 68.

13:54:59 >>THE CLERK: You need to vote.

13:55:02 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.




13:55:03 All in favor of the motion say Aye.

13:55:05 Opposed, Nay.

13:55:05 >>> Good afternoon again.

13:55:08 Santiago Corrada, neighborhood services administrator.

13:55:11 I believe item 68 really has three parts to it.

13:55:14 The first part has to do with us coming back as a

13:55:18 follow-up to not-for-profit group that appeared before

13:55:22 City Council self weeks ago asking for a rent-free use

13:55:26 of a facility in lieu of services that they were

13:55:29 willing to provide.

13:55:30 That option was offered by City Council subsequent to

13:55:35 that offer we received a letter that even that offer

13:55:38 was not acceptable, that that organization felt they

13:55:43 needed to be grandfathered in and the price of their

13:55:48 services needed to be evaluated and contrasted against

13:55:52 what they might have paid in rent.

13:55:54 Our position regarding not for profit groups offering a

13:55:57 service to the city and then wanting use of facilities,

13:56:02 that we would look at every individual group that

13:56:04 wanted to provide a service.

13:56:06 Look at the benefits of that service being provided to

13:56:08 the parks and rec department, and then negotiate a




13:56:12 reduced fee for the use of those facilities.

13:56:20 We are not of the opinion we should have ab free use of

13:56:23 facilities and then determine which groups should have

13:56:24 that and which groups should not.

13:56:26 We feel that we would take every one of those

13:56:28 opportunities one at a time and then evaluate them and

13:56:31 decide on a reduced rate for the use of the facilities,

13:56:34 and we feel that we can already do that within the

13:56:37 confines of what we have as far as parks and rec

13:56:40 policies.

13:56:41 So I guess that's my answer for portions 68-A.

13:56:45 The second portion -- are there any questions on that

13:56:48 from any of the council members?

13:56:50 I'll stop there.

13:56:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Mulhern.

13:56:55 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't have a question.

13:56:57 I just have a comment.

13:56:58 I was -- it was in response to one group, the

13:57:03 orchestra --

13:57:04 >> Family community band, yes, ma'am.

13:57:06 >> Right, the band.

13:57:06 But since that time, at that public meeting, at today's




13:57:11 meeting and in between all the communications we have

13:57:14 gotten, I think we need to completely review fees in

13:57:21 general, so I think that can be part.

13:57:23 >> I'm getting to these.

13:57:25 Fees.

13:57:26 I was trying to answer what was the motion before we

13:57:29 jump into fees.

13:57:30 Part B has to do with our independent contractor

13:57:34 agreements.

13:57:37 After the last meeting with this item came up, after

13:57:39 the last City Council meeting where it came up, we

13:57:42 convened a meeting this week with a representative from

13:57:45 our legal department, a representative from risk

13:57:48 management, parks and rec director, and myself, to look

13:57:51 at some of these issues that we heard ate that last

13:57:53 meeting.

13:57:53 Some of the issues we received via e-mail, and we

13:57:57 worked on clarifying some of the indemnification

13:58:00 language that some of our independent contractors had

13:58:02 an issue with.

13:58:03 We looked at some of the hold harmless language that

13:58:06 some of our independent contractors had a problem with.




13:58:08 And the generally accepted accounting principles

13:58:11 language.

13:58:11 At that meeting we cleaned up -- cleaned up a lot of

13:58:14 that language.

13:58:14 We went ahead and dropped the gap language, the

13:58:18 generally accepted accounting principles language, and

13:58:21 Mr. Chip Fletcher, our city attorney, can speak to the

13:58:24 new language.

13:58:25 Some other things were brought up today.

13:58:27 We were ready to bring an amended contract for approval

13:58:31 of City Council as soon as possible, but if we need to

13:58:35 take a time out and meet again after these changes with

13:58:38 some of the independent contractors that were here this

13:58:40 morning and are still here this afternoon, we would be

13:58:41 willing to do that and see how we can further define

13:58:44 and redefine the language to make them comfortable as

13:58:47 well as protect the city against any wrongdoing and

13:58:52 indemnifying the city.

13:58:54 So I want to thank the independent contractors that

13:58:56 brought to the our attention.

13:58:57 I want to thank the council members that brought to the

13:58:59 our attention.




13:59:00 And with that, I can turn it over to Chip Fletcher to

13:59:02 talk about some of the language that we have already

13:59:04 gone ahead and tweaked.

13:59:05 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: City attorney.

13:59:14 Rodriguez in my office and staff at Parks Department

13:59:19 met with them and worked on this issue.

13:59:21 I guess it's page 2, section 4, on the right to audit.

13:59:28 That's the obligation to use generally accepted

13:59:31 accounting principles was included.

13:59:34 Frankly, we did not think that was an onerous

13:59:37 requirement but we can take that out and simply

13:59:40 requires them to keep records.

13:59:41 It's essential that they keep independent records in

13:59:44 order to clearly identify and demarcate the city's

13:59:49 activities from their activities, and we do not have an

13:59:51 issue of that being perceived or considered by the

13:59:54 IRS's employees.

13:59:55 So under this, they will obviously keep those records,

13:59:58 whatever their business practice is, that will be

14:00:01 sufficient.

14:00:02 We have also changed the retention period from three

14:00:05 years to one year.




14:00:08 We felt that that was helpful for them on their record

14:00:11 keeping, and met our obligation to keep that

14:00:13 demarcation clear.

14:00:21 On the liability language, which is on page 4, section

14:00:24 7, essentially we have developed new language that says

14:00:31 more plainly that the instructors will be responsible

14:00:36 for their own negligence and indemnify the city for

14:00:42 liabilities that may arise from their own negligence

14:00:44 and maintain the ability for where there is a claim of

14:00:49 negligence on both parties that a court of competent

14:00:56 jurisdiction make that determination and adjudicate

14:00:59 that relative liability and allow both parties to be

14:01:04 responsible for their own liabilities, which is frankly

14:01:06 what we thought the first draft said, first language

14:01:09 said.

14:01:09 So we have got a draft to address these issues, and we

14:01:14 would be comfortable with the comments by council to

14:01:18 request the Parks Department to bring back a contract

14:01:22 for approval by council that has those changes in it.

14:01:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?

14:01:34 Anything further?

14:01:36 >>MARY MULHERN: No.




14:01:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Chip and Santiago.

14:01:43 At the last meeting, I had read the e-mail from Mike

14:01:49 Shull who is behind you there, and the e-mail I was

14:01:53 reading focused on three issues.

14:01:55 Subsequently, it came to my attention that he had seven

14:01:58 issues, and that I was four short.

14:02:02 I don't have in front of me exactly what those

14:02:04 positions are but I don't know that we really need to

14:02:09 bend them out in this body.

14:02:10 I appreciate Santiago's offer to meet with Mr. Shull

14:02:14 and the other folks who spoke to us this morning.

14:02:18 Perhaps you guys can address the outstanding remaining

14:02:21 issues.

14:02:21 I think the indemnification language is much improved,

14:02:24 and not as broad as it was earlier, but like I say, I

14:02:30 don't know that I want to bang out those other contract

14:02:32 items right now.

14:02:35 I don't think that's a good use of council's time.

14:02:37 So on that particular subject, I'm comfortable with

14:02:40 coming back in two weeks or however long you need to

14:02:45 revise the agreement, assuming that before everybody

14:02:50 leaves today you guys can reconvene with Mr. Shull and




14:02:53 the other folks and address the issue.

14:02:57 And after that, I had a bigger picture question about

14:03:01 this fee issue that we were talking about this morning.

14:03:03 But I'll hold off on that till later.

14:03:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair.

14:03:08 Speaking just to that issue that's on the issue

14:03:12 presently on the floor, I asked last time we had this

14:03:15 meeting, is this being changed because of fraud

14:03:19 somewhere in the system?

14:03:20 And the answer is no.

14:03:21 But now when I hear the presentation, it seems to me

14:03:25 you are talking about lack of money somewhere.

14:03:29 Let me finish.

14:03:30 And then you talk about insurance.

14:03:31 I'm certainly happy to see that something that should

14:03:35 have never been in there is taken out.

14:03:38 I don't see how it went through the legal department

14:03:40 where you are going to hold an individual, or

14:03:42 individuals, or groups of individuals liable for

14:03:47 something that may happen by nature.

14:03:50 A lightning rod hits the pole, the pole falls on some

14:03:54 students and hurts him or whatever and we are going to




14:03:56 hold harmless the city, and you can't do that.

14:03:59 Secondly, I looked at this thing now.

14:04:01 It says approved by workman's comp.

14:04:06 If I remember state statute -- I'm not an attorney --

14:04:09 if you are a sole practitioner, you are not covered

14:04:13 under workmans comp.

14:04:15 Am I correct?

14:04:15 >> There is a threshold for worker's comp.

14:04:18 So an individual would likely not.

14:04:21 >> Is that true?

14:04:22 I don't know if the laws are changed.

14:04:25 In workman's comp you have to have more than three

14:04:27 employees under the state statute?

14:04:29 >> The last time I checked, that was correct.

14:04:31 >> This is what ideal in every day at the horse races.

14:04:39 So I'm perplexed.

14:04:45 We should have known this before we wrote little things

14:04:48 like this and little things like the other and

14:04:52 something else add up to a big thing, and people get

14:04:55 riled up.

14:04:56 This should have never passed the muster in your

14:04:59 department.




14:05:00 It should never have.

14:05:02 Because the way it's written, you are holding me as a

14:05:06 council member if I was doing something, a contract

14:05:09 with the city, responsible for everything that can

14:05:11 happen, even if I'm not responsible for it happening.

14:05:14 And that's not the way it works.

14:05:17 And that's the only thing I can say regarding that.

14:05:21 And I will hold back on the other items when they get

14:05:25 on the floor.

14:05:26 Thank you, Madam Chair.

14:05:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Mulhern.

14:05:31 >>MARY MULHERN: Regarding the contract, I don't even

14:05:36 know where to start.

14:05:38 But let's start with my personal experience.

14:05:43 I was a part-time after-school teacher for the

14:05:46 Hillsborough school district.

14:05:48 I had to get fingerprinted, and I had to, you know,

14:05:53 pass whatever, background check, and I had to sign some

14:05:58 contract.

14:05:59 But I didn't know -- no one asked me to show that I had

14:06:03 a million dollars of liability insurance.

14:06:06 And they didn't ask for anywhere near this much.




14:06:11 Now, this isn't a legal opinion.

14:06:13 This is just my experience which I think is a little

14:06:16 comparable.

14:06:16 The school district has all kinds of people who do

14:06:18 part-time teaching as contractors.

14:06:22 So I think we could look at -- I have a lot to say, so

14:06:28 you can answer me when I'm done.

14:06:30 We can look at what the school district does.

14:06:32 Then we have one of these instructors who actually

14:06:35 brought us the St. Pete contract, and has done this

14:06:41 incredible amount of work in showing us how we can have

14:06:45 a better contract.

14:06:46 So you have that.

14:06:48 Then we have an attorney on council who has a pretty

14:06:50 good idea of how to write a contract.

14:06:54 And then we receive from the Parks Department this list

14:06:57 of all the contractors.

14:07:00 And as I go over it, there are 26 contractors.

14:07:07 Nine of them have not signed the contract.

14:07:10 And nine of our programs are not done at this point.

14:07:18 They will not be in operation.

14:07:19 I don't know how many students or residents are losing




14:07:22 out on that.

14:07:22 And then of the 17 that actually signed the contract, I

14:07:25 know at least two of them have expressed to me their

14:07:32 problems with it.

14:07:33 So my feeling about this contract is that it is not

14:07:37 going to be okay until legal and parks and at least a

14:07:46 representative of one of these -- of this group of

14:07:50 instructors agrees on a contract, sits down and

14:07:53 negotiates it, and maybe you can get a mediator.

14:07:56 I can get a mediator who will volunteer to do that.

14:07:59 You know, all these struck instructors, people who are

14:08:04 paid employees, who we are paying their benefits, who

14:08:08 no longer work for the city, all we have now are

14:08:12 freelancers.

14:08:14 So they deserve -- you know, it used to be union.

14:08:17 You would have had to negotiate with the union for this

14:08:20 kind of stuff, and you wouldn't have put this onus on

14:08:24 them.

14:08:24 So I think that these people have been providing a

14:08:28 service, many of them for decades, and have given our

14:08:33 Parks Department a great reputation.

14:08:36 And my children, and my family a great service.




14:08:39 And the other things I want to tell you, this is

14:08:42 unbelievable to me, because I'm kind of a workaholic

14:08:44 and I'm really boring, I don't drink.

14:08:47 Since I got on council, I never do anything social.

14:08:52 I have had five friends or people that I've had contact

14:08:59 with in the Parks Department on programming contact me,

14:09:04 not just like people who are calling me because they

14:09:06 know I'm on City Council.

14:09:07 These are friends of mine and saying, what is going on

14:09:10 here?

14:09:12 Incredible number of complaints.

14:09:14 I mean, it's astounding to me.

14:09:18 So what I'm going to ask council to do today is rescind

14:09:22 our approval of this contract, which I think, Chip,

14:09:26 would mean we would go back to whatever we were doing

14:09:29 in 2009, we had all these people working for us,

14:09:33 however they were working, they can sign that old

14:09:37 contract and they can get back to work, and then you

14:09:39 can spend the time working out a reasonable contract.

14:09:46 This is going to ruin our programming.

14:09:48 I mean, my son lost his tennis instructor.

14:09:53 He started out -- he told me after a few lessons, he




14:09:58 said, you know, I'm getting better.

14:10:00 I used to be -- no, I used to suck but now I'm just

14:10:03 really bad.

14:10:04 And now he doesn't have his tennis instructor anymore

14:10:07 so he's going to go back to being worse than bad.

14:10:11 So I just -- I think that I would like to make a

14:10:16 motion.

14:10:18 I don't know if we will have four votes or we'll have

14:10:20 to wait for Joseph Caetano to come back, to rescind our

14:10:24 approval of this contract, and if legally we can do

14:10:34 this and go back to whatever our previous contract was

14:10:36 with all these instructors, and then in the next month,

14:10:43 negotiate a contract with input from -- sit down at a

14:10:47 table with these people and come to an agreement.

14:10:50 >> Second.

14:10:55 >> It sounds like you are pretty close to having a

14:10:58 contract at this point but I don't think you are there

14:11:00 yet because people came to us today and gave us all

14:11:02 kinds of comments.

14:11:03 >> The IRS eats requires we treat people as employees

14:11:19 or contractors.

14:11:20 And the school board, if I understand what you




14:11:21 described, is an employee relationship.

14:11:23 Well --

14:11:26 >>MARY MULHERN: No, it was not.

14:11:27 >> Then they have got issues, okay, because the core

14:11:32 things that have to happen is that we can't supervise

14:11:36 directly how they provide their services.

14:11:39 They have to keep independent records, financial

14:11:41 records, personnel records, all those kinds of things.

14:11:44 They have to meet their state obligations.

14:11:47 For instance, like worker's comp, which in this

14:11:49 instance we have lots of folks that contract with us

14:11:53 who have more employees.

14:11:54 But those folks that aren't required to get worker's

14:11:56 comp, then they just show us that their organization is

14:12:00 under the threshold.

14:12:01 It's a fairly simple test.

14:12:04 >> But what I'm saying is, this language in here, and

14:12:12 even when you talked about two changes that were made,

14:12:15 I don't think that's enough.

14:12:16 I don't know if we can hear from the public again.

14:12:18 If we hear from these instructors that the changes you

14:12:21 are talking about are okay, maybe, but I don't think




14:12:24 even that's right because there are people who had to

14:12:28 leave.

14:12:28 Let me finish.

14:12:30 Is the IRS coming after us right now?

14:12:33 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: No, but I can't advice you to

14:12:35 enter into an agreement that is not consistent with

14:12:37 federal law.

14:12:37 >> So you are telling me that for the past however

14:12:42 long, at least decades --

14:12:46 >> The law changes over time.

14:12:50 It became apparent when we redrafted some contracts,

14:12:52 what we were being asked to put in there were

14:12:55 inconsistent with the current IRS guidelines.

14:12:57 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, unless we are being audited or

14:13:06 prosecuted, I think we can afford two weeks.

14:13:10 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: And let me get to your specific

14:13:14 question.

14:13:14 We really focused in on this after Dunedin got audited

14:13:18 and did have to treat folks as employees, pensions, all

14:13:21 that kind of stuff.

14:13:22 So it is an issue.

14:13:25 Where we are now is those kinds contracts that have




14:13:27 been signed and are in place, City Council doesn't have

14:13:29 the ability to undo those.

14:13:33 We can figure out what happens if you tell us don't

14:13:35 enter into any more contracts with this instrument,

14:13:39 which is what I'm hearing you all say.

14:13:41 >> Then we need to go forward from there.

14:13:48 >> So we can't vote to rescind our approval of the

14:13:51 contract?

14:13:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Of an ordinance.

14:13:55 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You can vote to approve as to form

14:13:59 but I think what he's advising you is go back to a form

14:14:02 which in his opinion based on his analysis said would

14:14:05 be problematic.

14:14:05 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: And those ones that have been

14:14:08 executed would continue to be in place:

14:14:11 >> It would not have a legal effect on the contract

14:14:13 that's already been executed.

14:14:14 So --

14:14:18 >> What were we doing before?

14:14:21 There was some kind of contract.

14:14:22 It just wasn't the one that you wanted.

14:14:24 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: They were different versions.




14:14:29 >>MARY MULHERN: How about if they sign a new contract?

14:14:32 They re-sign the old contract, the ones that have

14:14:34 signed that contract, they -- you go back and you write

14:14:45 a new "old" contract with them.

14:14:48 Let's see, I'm trying to find somebody here who -- so

14:14:51 Margaret, who teaches yoga, who signed the new

14:14:55 contract, would just go back and use one of the

14:14:57 contracts that we were using in 2009, and sign that,

14:15:01 which would invalidate this one, and then you have a

14:15:03 couple weeks to write a new contract.

14:15:05 >> Madam Chair, if I may, please.

14:15:10 Most of the time when I came before this body, I try to

14:15:12 appear with a win-win situation.

14:15:14 I think I presented that already this afternoon.

14:15:19 We said we already tweaked some of the language that

14:15:20 had been brought to our attention prior to today.

14:15:23 In light of that, there have been others.

14:15:25 We are willing to meet with all of these instructors,

14:15:30 change the language on the contracts, if we feel that

14:15:33 it's in the protection of all involved, and again, you

14:15:35 know, I want to make this clear for people watching on

14:15:38 TV.




14:15:40 This almost portrayal of city staff being punitive and

14:15:45 evil.

14:15:45 That's not the intention of this language.

14:15:47 This language was created to protect our city against

14:15:51 any issues that could arise.

14:15:53 So I have offered that solution.

14:15:55 I said we can meet with them today.

14:15:57 We can meet with them tomorrow.

14:15:58 In two weeks we can bring another ordinance to City

14:16:01 Council with a tweaked contract that hopefully our

14:16:06 instructors can live with, that hopefully will protect

14:16:08 the city and resolve this in two weeks.

14:16:11 That is --

14:16:12 >>MARY MULHERN: Santiago, have you read all of the

14:16:15 correspondence that we have gotten from people?

14:16:18 >> If it's not been forwarded to me, no, but I have

14:16:21 heard plenty of --

14:16:22 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay, they cannot get their phone

14:16:24 calls answers.

14:16:25 When they do finally meet with staff, they don't get

14:16:30 any compromise, they don't get anywhere.

14:16:34 They get the same answer.




14:16:39 I'm not saying you're punitive.

14:16:41 No one thinks that you're bad.

14:16:43 We just think that you are not treating these people in

14:16:49 a manner that will make your Parks Department work.

14:16:53 You have lost more than a third of your instructors,

14:16:57 okay.

14:16:57 And it's March.

14:16:59 And their programs started in January.

14:17:01 >>> And again I have said we are willing to work with

14:17:06 them and rectify.

14:17:07 You are shaking your head and saying no but I'm telling

14:17:09 you we are willing to do that and I'm also telling you

14:17:11 that -- and there was a misstatement earlier today that

14:17:14 we had not had any dialogue regarding a new independent

14:17:18 contractor agreement with instructors, and there have

14:17:20 been conversations and meetings and meeting minutes,

14:17:24 and rosters of individuals that spoke about some of

14:17:27 these changes.

14:17:28 This wasn't something that was pulled out of the hat

14:17:30 overnight.

14:17:31 And we are willing to sit down and make those changes.

14:17:33 >>MARY MULHERN: It wasn't -- you worked hard on it but




14:17:36 you did not work with these contractors.

14:17:40 And when we passed these contracts, we weren't happy

14:17:43 about it.

14:17:44 In fact, I delayed it, and I refused to, you know, to

14:17:48 sign this new system because I was already getting

14:17:52 complaints from people.

14:17:54 So that's been several months.

14:17:59 All I can say is that the only way that I know that we

14:18:02 can get as many of these instructors to continue doing

14:18:05 their good work is if we let them sign a contract that

14:18:10 they are happy with, which we do not have today, and

14:18:15 then you can have your two weeks to do what you are

14:18:18 saying you are going to do, and I trust you will do it

14:18:20 because then you will have a reason to have to do it.

14:18:22 >>> Whatever I have said I am going to do I have done.

14:18:25 Unless someone can point out different.

14:18:27 >>MARY MULHERN: That's my motion.

14:18:29 Two weeks.

14:18:34 All right, I'll wait.

14:18:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair.

14:18:36 I'm not an expert in IRS laws.

14:18:38 But I do know one thing.




14:18:41 You mentioned several things that Mr. Fletcher that

14:18:46 says when is an employee an employee?

14:18:48 When is an employee not an employee?

14:18:52 They are not an employee if they use the courts and you

14:18:56 have no jurisdiction as to what time they use it, how

14:18:59 they use it, and more importantly what they charge.

14:19:02 It is my understanding that some of these contracts

14:19:06 have been held in abeyance -- maybe I am wrong -- that

14:19:10 says you are not charging enough, you have got to meet

14:19:12 this threshold.

14:19:13 Once you say that, in my opinion, they are an employee,

14:19:17 because now you are setting the standard of rate, and

14:19:20 the standard of return.

14:19:22 And you are treading in real deep waters while you

14:19:26 think you are walking with sandals on the beach.

14:19:29 You are not.

14:19:29 You are going to hit a sinkhole.

14:19:31 >>> Can I answer that?

14:19:33 >> Yes.

14:19:33 >>> There are a variety of factors.

14:19:35 That's a big one that you described.

14:19:37 And if a situation happened where the city was telling




14:19:40 individuals what they need to charge, that would

14:19:43 definitely be a problem.

14:19:45 We would need to advise them to not do that.

14:19:47 >> Has the city ever done that, to your knowledge?

14:19:49 >>> Based on discussion at the last council meeting, I

14:19:52 did ask Mr. Rodriguez to make sure that that was not

14:19:56 occurring, and to make sure the Parks Department was

14:19:58 advised that that was not.

14:20:00 >> Let me ask another question.

14:20:02 Of the 16 or 17 that have signed contracts, at any time

14:20:06 when any one of those 16 or 17 ever told that their

14:20:08 fees were too low, they had to raise them?

14:20:12 I'm not aware --

14:20:13 >> I'm not asking you.

14:20:15 I'm asking the department.

14:20:15 >>> Councilman Miranda, the item you are speaking to

14:20:26 our tennis facility.

14:20:27 >> I'm not talking about one.

14:20:28 I'm talking about all.

14:20:30 >> The only one that I'm aware of and that's in regard

14:20:32 to our court fees in determining what's the best

14:20:34 business practice for that individual as well as for




14:20:36 the city.

14:20:37 And that's what that was determined on.

14:20:39 >> You never gave me an answer but I understand.

14:20:43 The second part of that is the ones that have the nine

14:20:45 or ten that have not had their contracts approved.

14:20:48 Have any of them submitted the contract and they are

14:20:51 not approved but waiting a certain fee schedule?

14:20:54 >>KAREN PALUS: There is two individuals I'm aware of

14:20:55 that have submitted their information and we are still

14:20:57 waiting on responses from those individuals.

14:20:59 >> Meaning that they have submitted it with a certain

14:21:02 criteria that did meet the expectations of the

14:21:05 department?

14:21:06 >>KAREN PALUS: No, it was a discussion item on that

14:21:08 individual's program of whether they were able to work

14:21:11 within those facilities or other locations that were

14:21:15 available to them.

14:21:16 >> None of this has to do with any funds that they

14:21:18 charge?

14:21:18 >> Well, you are talking about specific and there are

14:21:23 certain rates for our courts that are used on a daily

14:21:27 basis for prime and non-prime time.




14:21:30 So based on the percentages for those particular

14:21:32 individuals, if they are in the -- again tennis is 80%

14:21:38 20%, is the scenario for them.

14:21:40 If an individual charges less, if they are not charging

14:21:43 the court fee, so what we have done, we have had

14:21:45 discussion with that individual in regards to we need

14:21:47 to figure out another way to cattle cult that court

14:21:50 fee, so that way the city is at least getting what the

14:21:52 public would pay for that court, and that was a

14:21:55 business discussion with that individual in regards to

14:21:57 what the other market -- and I shared that with you at

14:22:00 the last meeting -- what the other market folks are

14:22:02 charging with the other piers in this group are

14:22:05 charging, and that's specific to that particular item

14:22:10 but that's the only one that I am aware of.

14:22:11 >> So what I am hearing, if I was one of those

14:22:14 individuals, not the instructors, one of those two or

14:22:16 three that wanted to play, I could rent a court from

14:22:19 the city, ask that individual to play with us, and then

14:22:22 I would bypass all the charges?

14:22:25 >>> You would just pay for whatever your court fee is.

14:22:28 So if that individual went out there --




14:22:30 >> There would no contract or anything if they wanted

14:22:32 to skirt the intent of the proposition that we are

14:22:34 doing here?

14:22:37 I find it --

14:22:42 >>> That's happening in our facilities all the time.

14:22:44 >> So how can we solve that problem?

14:22:46 >> What we try to do again with this type of agreement,

14:22:48 allow for those instructors to reserve space, so they

14:22:51 have a specific space or number of courts available

14:22:54 based on what they are asking to do within their

14:22:56 programs.

14:22:57 Whether they be group lessons, individual lessons, they

14:23:00 reserve the court, reserve them for those instructors

14:23:02 that are under contract with us.

14:23:04 Any individuals that come on their own to do whatever

14:23:06 they are doing, or if they are coming to play as

14:23:09 general public, call and reserve their court just like

14:23:12 the general public does.

14:23:13 >> So they won't be escorted out by the police or

14:23:18 turned into the --

14:23:21 >>> Collecting money on city property.

14:23:24 >> What I am trying to get at, if you charge $10 an




14:23:30 hour, what is the court fee?

14:23:31 >>> The court fees for our prime time are $12.

14:23:36 >> And for off-prime time?

14:23:39 >>> Eight dollars.

14:23:41 >> So if I go off prime time I could charge $10 an hour

14:23:46 if I really wanted to?

14:23:47 Yes or no?

14:23:47 >>> Yes.

14:23:48 >> Have you ever turned down a contract or sent one

14:23:51 back that didn't meet the expectations for revenue for

14:23:53 the city?

14:23:55 >>> The one individual you are speaking of we --

14:23:58 >> I never mentioned one individual.

14:24:00 You're putting words in my mouth.

14:24:01 >>> You are making it become distasteful.

14:24:06 I don't want to do that.

14:24:07 Tell me yes or no or tell me no.

14:24:09 >>> We have given the information back to the

14:24:11 individual, and we are waiting on his response.

14:24:12 >> So that means you turned down the contract?

14:24:16 >>> we shared with him the information regarding the

14:24:20 prime and non-prime in his markets peers.




14:24:23 >> You didn't answer the question.

14:24:25 You turned down the contract?

14:24:26 >> Did not turn down the contract.

14:24:28 We put that information back --

14:24:29 >> So if I say I want to charge $12 an hour, and you

14:24:33 are going to turn that contract down because it doesn't

14:24:35 meet the revenue expectations.

14:24:36 City?

14:24:37 Am I correct or not?

14:24:38 >>KAREN PALUS: Yes.

14:24:39 >> Then you turned down the contract.

14:24:42 Thank you very much.

14:24:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I appreciate the complexity of

14:24:46 changing a culture, and for years and years the parks

14:24:52 and rec system existed in a very comfortable known

14:24:56 culture, and I would call it the money in the cigar

14:24:59 box.

14:25:00 And that was -- I mean, when I was a kid I went to

14:25:04 parks and rec and that's how it was, you showed up for

14:25:06 a class, or for after-school and you put the money in

14:25:09 the cigar box, and that was always how it was.

14:25:12 But as we have grown as a city, we have greater numbers




14:25:15 of people, I appreciate that we have to become more

14:25:18 systemized, more professional, and that there's always

14:25:23 chafing when you change systems.

14:25:25 It feels -- it's less high touch.

14:25:27 It's more computer oriented.

14:25:30 And it's not as comfortable for people.

14:25:35 I actually belong to a private club, and they started

14:25:37 to make everybody type in all the stuff before their

14:25:40 classes, and the yoga teacher who is in her mid 70s

14:25:44 just almost stopped teaching because it was too much of

14:25:49 a learning curve that somebody is helping out.

14:25:51 But the point is, it is a switch.

14:25:52 However, what we have done goes beyond the cultural

14:25:55 shift.

14:25:55 It really is not being sensitive.

14:25:58 It's not being -- not just sensitive but not as smart

14:26:02 as it can be.

14:26:03 I received a letter which I'm sure you got and I'm sure

14:26:05 parks and rec got about how the art teachers, the

14:26:12 particular needs for ordering supplies are not being

14:26:15 done in a way that's perhaps economically savvy to them

14:26:20 as art teachers because it's being handled by people




14:26:22 not as familiar with the arts, and I'm happy to share

14:26:25 that letter.

14:26:26 But it's also the personal feelings of the instructors

14:26:30 who have been around for a long time, being -- being --

14:26:34 feeling as if something is being imposed upon them, and

14:26:37 as if they are not part of creating the new system and

14:26:41 being expected in the process, and also the people who

14:26:45 attend classes.

14:26:46 A number of my friends, take classes at our rec centers

14:26:53 complain to me that they are not so happy.

14:26:55 Obviously there's a problem there.

14:26:56 I don't know if two weeks is the right amount of time,

14:26:59 if a month is the right amount of time, but we have to

14:27:02 revisit this.

14:27:02 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?

14:27:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I like the intent of Mrs. Mulhern's

14:27:12 motion, and idea.

14:27:13 The problem is the reality.

14:27:15 Because we can get rid of this existing contract.

14:27:18 We can go back to the old contract.

14:27:21 But guess what we can't do.

14:27:22 We can't force the administration to enter into it




14:27:25 would anybody.

14:27:26 So because that's our limitations under the charter.

14:27:31 So what I would suggest, what I said earlier, is let's

14:27:37 take Mr. Corrada's word.

14:27:39 His word has always been good.

14:27:41 And let him meet with the folks who are sitting four

14:27:45 feet behind him, and hopefully today, and keep banging

14:27:51 out these issues and come back to us two weeks from now

14:27:53 and see what kind of progress he makes, and hopefully

14:27:55 you will bring a new contract that is tweaked up these

14:27:59 items that are of concern.

14:28:00 Under the circumstances not necessarily going to

14:28:01 address all the issues that have been spoken to in some

14:28:04 of the e-mails we have been getting.

14:28:06 But as related specifically to these contracts, maybe

14:28:10 we can hash these out, get these eight people back on

14:28:13 board, Mary, with new contracts that are probably

14:28:16 somewhat of a hybrid between where we are today and

14:28:20 where they want us to be.

14:28:22 I think that's perhaps an easier direction.

14:28:28 I won't need to make a motion.

14:28:30 I'll listen to your response.




14:28:31 >>MARY MULHERN: Here is the reason.

14:28:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Miranda?

14:28:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'll let her speak.

14:28:38 >>MARY MULHERN: I'll just answer that.

14:28:40 The problem is, we have already lost these people.

14:28:43 We have had two months of classes.

14:28:45 And the way the people sign up for a class -- you know,

14:28:55 time is of the essence if we want to keep these

14:28:57 instructors.

14:28:57 At the very least if we are going to have the ones that

14:28:59 already signed that contract stick with that till we

14:29:01 can get one that would agree to without having, you

14:29:06 know, their arm twisted, maybe these other people can

14:29:12 sign the old contract and get that to work.

14:29:15 I mean, you know, two weeks, and it's going to be

14:29:20 summer.

14:29:20 And then we are going to be talking about summer

14:29:22 programs, which haven't even come up yet, which is

14:29:26 going to be fun.

14:29:27 But that's the reason I was being so extreme about it.

14:29:30 So --

14:29:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The contract is no good and won't




14:29:35 really let them sign it anyway.

14:29:38 You know, it's not going to happen.

14:29:51 >>MARY MULHERN: I didn't hear that.

14:29:52 Is that what you are saying?

14:29:53 >> Well, the old contract has a lot of problems.

14:29:56 What I would rather frankly do is let Santiago and our

14:29:59 staff meet with these folks, see what we can figure

14:30:02 out.

14:30:02 I would like to look at whatever you all got from

14:30:04 St. Pete.

14:30:05 Because I haven't seen that yet.

14:30:06 Figure out whether that's been updated, since we have

14:30:10 had these other developments that we are responding to.

14:30:12 And go forward from there.

14:30:14 My preference personally, if you let us keep in place

14:30:18 what we have got until we have got a something that we

14:30:22 can recommend you change.

14:30:23 I can't recommend using the old contract.

14:30:25 >>MARY MULHERN: So what's your answer?

14:30:27 Maybe this is a question for Santiago. What's your

14:30:29 answer to these nine instructors we have lost?

14:30:32 And then it will be another at least two weeks if not a




14:30:36 month before you get something that they might be

14:30:38 willing to sign.

14:30:38 >> If we are successful in coming to a great

14:30:44 compromise, we can have an ordinance with a new

14:30:46 contract in front of City Council that we can execute

14:30:49 that same day with some of these instructors and go

14:30:52 back to some of the instructors that signed the current

14:30:55 contract and address the same issues with them that

14:30:57 day.

14:30:57 I don't believe that two hearings --

14:31:02 >> Just by resolution.

14:31:03 >>> By resolution.

14:31:04 That would be possible.

14:31:05 >>MARY MULHERN: Let me just ask this, and then after

14:31:11 Mr. Miranda speaks, could we maybe open the public

14:31:14 hearing to hear from some of the instructors who are

14:31:17 here?

14:31:17 Because this is the problem.

14:31:18 They have not had input up until this point.

14:31:24 And if they are satisfied with what you are proposing,

14:31:28 then I would be, too.

14:31:29 So I think it would be worth our while.




14:31:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I agree a little bit with everything

14:31:37 that's been said.

14:31:39 Mrs. Saul-Sena talked about the little cigar box or

14:31:41 whatever.

14:31:41 I understand that.

14:31:45 Culture has changed a lot of things.

14:31:48 Times have changed things.

14:31:49 People have changed.

14:31:50 The city has grown.

14:31:53 The city is in bad trouble.

14:31:55 I'm going to tell you like it is.

14:31:57 The city is in bad trouble.

14:31:58 Did it have to be changed?

14:32:01 Yes.

14:32:01 To what degree is what we are debating.

14:32:04 That's what the issue is.

14:32:05 And the future is going to get worse.

14:32:07 In '08 when there were raises, I didn't tab a raise

14:32:11 because I knew what was coming.

14:32:12 So there's a lot of things here that are going on that

14:32:15 it's not about tennis like they say it is.

14:32:18 It's about the whole thing.




14:32:19 I have got more e-mails that are concerning of tennis

14:32:26 ten to one that are concerned with other programs

14:32:29 especially Barksdale center in West Tampa.

14:32:37 They receive things.

14:32:37 And, you know, the things start flying, it becomes a

14:32:41 goal to change things.

14:32:42 And I don't blame them.

14:32:44 And they are talking about a city, an individual isn't

14:32:49 going to pay the fee, and it's right here, that

14:32:51 somebody in the county pays 115.

14:32:54 It was explained to me that all city residents pay an

14:32:56 extra $100 per year on the ad valorem tax.

14:32:59 That's not the truth.

14:33:00 That is not true.

14:33:01 And this is what they sent me.

14:33:03 But I know that's not a fact.

14:33:06 So they are good people with good intentions who get

14:33:11 something in the right frame and the right idealism to

14:33:14 work it out with the city.

14:33:20 I have to think that we have had a great drop in the

14:33:25 use of these centers not only Barksdale but the rest of

14:33:27 them because people cannot afford what we have.




14:33:31 What we are charging.

14:33:32 This is not a country club.

14:33:33 This is not Palma Ceia, or Davis Island country club,

14:33:37 or West Tampa country club if they have one, Ybor City

14:33:42 Yacht Club.

14:33:43 This is not any one of those.

14:33:44 This is the City of Tampa, a city that's supposed to

14:33:49 offer services.

14:33:51 I'm not casting any hard feelings towards you or Karen

14:33:54 or anybody else.

14:33:56 It goes back to do we pay now, or do we pay later?

14:34:01 If we don't fix the problems of kids being out on the

14:34:04 street, and problems like this is where it says you

14:34:08 cannot enter to play basketball, and we'll call the

14:34:13 police and all that. I don't know if that's true or

14:34:15 not.

14:34:16 I hope it's not true.

14:34:17 But when we start with this idealism that's being

14:34:21 spread around, this cannot continue to benefit the city

14:34:26 in no way.

14:34:30 Our police department has done an excellent job in

14:34:32 reducing crime.




14:34:33 They won't be able to handle what's coming to them if

14:34:36 this continues.

14:34:38 Because there will be more arrests, kids records will

14:34:44 be there forever, it will be less opportunity for them

14:34:47 to get a career going somewhere because they had a

14:34:51 violation with the law when they are 15, 16 or 17 or

14:34:54 whatever the age is, and these things are very

14:34:59 important to me, and I'm sure to other council members.

14:35:03 But we must somehow think, all of us, collectively,

14:35:08 with the administration, to solve this problem.

14:35:10 This is not about tennis.

14:35:12 This is not about yoga.

14:35:15 This is not about zamba.

14:35:17 I love them all.

14:35:18 But this is about these kids cannot be in the street

14:35:22 when they have very little to do and nowhere to go.

14:35:26 It's already hard enough for them to grow up with

14:35:28 everything they see and the stresses that they have

14:35:31 that I didn't have when I was growing up.

14:35:36 I was fortunate like most of us to have two parents.

14:35:40 And one of them didn't let me get out of line one I on

14:35:46 the A.the other was too busy working to support the one




14:35:48 that stayed home that didn't let me move one way or the

14:35:52 other one iota.

14:35:53 So what I am saying is if it wasn't for the recreation

14:35:56 department, like I stated before, all the kids that

14:35:59 went to that park, where he there was no Ponce DeLeon

14:36:04 park there, was later Ponce DeLeon, later became a

14:36:07 clinic, all these things have got to come together, not

14:36:10 for anyone in the audience, but for the betterment of

14:36:15 society.

14:36:15 It's got to work.

14:36:16 I know we don't have the money.

14:36:19 But somehow we must figure either doing furloughs,

14:36:23 doing something.

14:36:23 To me it's that important.

14:36:25 Taking a pay cut, reducing everybody's salary, to get

14:36:28 these kids into some type of program.

14:36:31 I don't want them to go out with a serial number unless

14:36:34 it's a lottery ticket that they won, because the

14:36:36 lottery ticket that we are going to hand them is only

14:36:38 one way -- to jail.

14:36:41 And that's not the right way of doing things.

14:36:43 Thank you, madam chair.




14:36:45 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a question of what Mr. Miranda

14:36:47 said.

14:36:47 The e-mail that the kids have not paid their fee and

14:36:51 want to come in and pay --

14:36:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: One other thing if I may add.

14:36:57 As I read these things, the $25 fee, then you have a $5

14:37:00 late charge on a Thursday you have got to pay it.

14:37:02 The problem is, psychologically I tell myself, am I

14:37:06 crazy or do people get paid on Fridays?

14:37:10 So why don't you make it the collection on Monday so

14:37:13 that you have more participants.

14:37:16 Late fee is $5 a day?

14:37:20 I don't know if it's true or not.

14:37:21 But late fee is $5 a day and every day thereafter.

14:37:24 So am I supposed to assume that a payment of $25 is not

14:37:28 paid at the end of the week, if they don't pay it they

14:37:30 owe 50?

14:37:32 Is that true?

14:37:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Do they call the police on the kids,

14:37:38 they come in and have to pay?

14:37:39 >>> No, ma'am, that's not correct.

14:37:46 One other things I want to mention.




14:37:47 In regards to the late fee, there is a late fee.

14:37:49 It is $5.

14:37:50 And we learned that from Hillsborough County because

14:37:54 they went through the first six months of their fees

14:37:56 and were behind in the majority of their folks.

14:37:59 They have found that that has not been necessary with a

14:38:01 lot of our folks, because folks have paid on time.

14:38:04 They are paying late on Thursday nights.

14:38:06 Typically most of them are paying by check and their

14:38:09 checks are in their accounts by Friday.

14:38:13 It allows us to know for sure who we have to pick up on

14:38:16 Monday from those schools in which we walk those

14:38:18 children home.

14:38:19 So we know what we can expect in the program for the

14:38:23 following week.

14:38:24 And that's all that's attributed to.

14:38:25 We also just as a reminder, we gave everybody two

14:38:29 months leeway of three programs before the October one

14:38:34 deadline to give folks a chance to pay in advance and a

14:38:36 lot of them took advantage of that.

14:38:37 Some folks did, some folks didn't.

14:38:39 But they have that information and have that time to




14:38:41 get ahead of those dollars.

14:38:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I understand what you said but I

14:38:45 don't comprehend what you said.

14:38:47 You said there's late fees, you learned it from

14:38:49 Hillsborough County, so forth and so on.

14:38:51 And I'm appreciative of that.

14:38:52 The question is, do you charge $5 a day late fee?

14:38:57 >> We do, yes.

14:38:58 However, we have not found it to be necessary.

14:39:01 >> In other words a $25 bill can become $50 to somebody

14:39:04 who didn't have the 25?

14:39:05 >> Well, we wouldn't pick up their child on Monday for

14:39:08 the program.

14:39:08 They wouldn't be registered in our program at that

14:39:10 point in time.

14:39:11 We wouldn't have the ability to bring them into our

14:39:13 care.

14:39:13 >> Do you have the amount of moneys you collected in

14:39:15 late fees?

14:39:15 >> Say that again?

14:39:17 >> Do you have the amount of mention, the numbers that

14:39:19 you collected in late fees you consider very small?




14:39:22 >> I am not aware of the late fees.

14:39:26 I did call and check with our finance folks.

14:39:27 But we don't have any way of showing that we collect

14:39:31 add bunch of late fees.

14:39:32 There's nothing right now that we are aware of that

14:39:35 everybody has been paying on time.

14:39:37 We haven't had an issue with it.

14:39:39 That was brought to my attention.

14:39:40 >> And believe me, it's not you that I am talking

14:39:42 about, I am talking about a system that I think is an

14:39:47 issue with not only me, with the other six council

14:39:49 members, because I have been inundated more on this

14:39:54 than anything in the last year and a half or so.

14:39:58 The Thursday paychecks, they are writing it out a

14:40:03 check, and yet I think they are living week to week

14:40:06 like most of us are.

14:40:07 So then that Thursday, if somehow we forget to put it

14:40:10 in the bank, and the bank gives you 48 hours for your

14:40:15 check to clear, your check may bounce.

14:40:17 Have you had any bounced checks?

14:40:18 >> Not that I'm aware of at this point.

14:40:20 I can go back and check.




14:40:22 >> I'm not asking for specific numbers.

14:40:23 I'm just trying to make it easy on those people who

14:40:26 already are having a hard time to have their kids --

14:40:30 and I understand something has got to be done.

14:40:32 I understand that.

14:40:33 I read in the paper where there was an uproar in the

14:40:35 county because they had a $5 election fee for a vote.

14:40:41 Now if I go as a city resident are they going to charge

14:40:45 me -- that's the question I am trying to ask myself.

14:40:51 I try to see through the woods but the trees keep

14:40:54 getting in the way.

14:40:55 And it's very hard for us, because we don't see the

14:40:59 day-to-day activity that you see, or Santiago sees,

14:41:03 your supervisors see.

14:41:04 We don't see that.

14:41:06 We see an action of someone.

14:41:07 And we don't know any other way of doing it other than

14:41:11 to ask these questions.

14:41:12 I have another one that says, I remember parking at

14:41:14 Barksdale was so much at the overflow I had to go into

14:41:18 the grassy area because there was no more parking

14:41:21 spaces.




14:41:21 Now parking is not a problem.

14:41:23 So I have to take that on face value.

14:41:25 Signed, sealed and delivered by the person.

14:41:29 And they are talking about they just can't take the

14:41:32 increase in fees, and they have to pay for the program,

14:41:35 and then they write, another one writes and says,

14:41:38 although city employees doing that, because if they're,

14:41:41 I am already paying their salary.

14:41:43 I don't know.

14:41:43 I really don't know.

14:41:44 I don't know if there's an instructor or city employee.

14:41:48 And I'm speaking for myself.

14:41:49 But I assume the others feel the same way.

14:41:52 So that's what I don't -- the frustration is not

14:41:58 boiling, but very detrimental to one's health, I should

14:42:01 say.

14:42:01 And the elderly need exercise. The elderly is what

14:42:08 gave us the right that we have today.

14:42:09 There's two people I try to protect the most, the very

14:42:12 young and the very old.

14:42:14 Guys like me in the middle that are bald and beautiful,

14:42:17 I don't care about.




14:42:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.

14:42:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.

14:42:24 Two things.

14:42:25 One, let's move on and see if we can resolve the

14:42:29 contract issue.

14:42:31 Independent contractor issue.

14:42:32 My motion would be to request staff to come back in two

14:42:35 weeks with a revised contract, hopefully addresses some

14:42:41 if not all of the concerns that have been raised by the

14:42:43 independent contractors.

14:42:45 That's my first motion.

14:42:46 >> I will second that for discussion.

14:42:49 >>MARY MULHERN: I want that to be worked on with

14:42:53 instructors.

14:42:56 I want a negotiated contract.

14:42:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Implicit in that motion.

14:43:04 We can't make him do it but he already said he would so

14:43:07 I take him at his word.

14:43:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We have a motion and second.

14:43:11 All in favor of the motion say Aye.

14:43:12 Opposed, Nay.

14:43:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The second issue which perhaps is




14:43:17 even bigger than the tennis court issue -- no offense,

14:43:21 Mr. Shull -- is the issue that we heard about this

14:43:25 morning, and we heard about two weeks ago, and we will

14:43:30 continue to keep hearing about it.

14:43:32 To a great extent we heard about it from East Tampa.

14:43:34 But I think pretty soon we will be hearing about it

14:43:37 across the city.

14:43:37 We also heard about it by correspondence, Mr. Miranda,

14:43:40 as you said, from the Barksdale folks.

14:43:42 The Barksdale senior center which is in your district

14:43:45 in West Tampa.

14:43:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It's also district 1, 2 and 3.

14:43:51 >> I'm saying the center.

14:43:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I know that.

14:43:57 But we still use councilman Dingfelder, Miranda, 1, 2

14:44:02 and 3, have the same responsibility that we have.

14:44:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes, correct.

14:44:07 And I want to read a quick excerpt from it looks like

14:44:11 100 folks, I assume they are mostly seniors, looks like

14:44:15 a lot of women, senior women, from the Barksdale

14:44:18 center.

14:44:19 Mr. Miranda was alluding to this earlier.




14:44:21 We all got this letter.

14:44:23 Barksdale wags once a thriving hub of activity for

14:44:26 seniors that came from all over Hillsborough County,

14:44:28 annual activity fee was reasonable, enable all seniors

14:44:31 to enjoy the programs and interact with other seniors.

14:44:34 I know we have all been there and we have seen them

14:44:36 doing all sorts of wonderful activities.

14:44:40 In October 2009 new fees were levied on programs, most

14:44:43 of which were once free and/or affordable to seniors.

14:44:47 This caused a traumatic loss of the Barksdale

14:44:49 population, reduction in participation of seniors in

14:44:52 the program.

14:44:53 Would provide them a purpose for existence, a place to

14:44:56 meet and interact with friends and motivation to

14:45:00 participate in socials.

14:45:04 I'll skip the paragraph.

14:45:05 It says we the undersigned object to the fee structure

14:45:08 and request to be bring it up at council's meeting.

14:45:10 Help us bring Barksdale back to what it once was, a

14:45:14 place where seniors can participate in activities which

14:45:16 keep them mentally alert, active and agile.

14:45:19 And I'm sure that we have many, many other similar




14:45:22 activities centers like this all across the city that

14:45:24 are now hurting, that have reduced population, that

14:45:27 have reduced activities.

14:45:29 Now, is this Santiago's fault?

14:45:32 Is this Karen Palus' fault?

14:45:34 No, of course not.

14:45:35 It's the fact that we have the severe budget crunches

14:45:39 and parks and rec is being hit the hardest by them.

14:45:42 So that addresses -- Charlie, you mentioned there's

14:45:45 nothing more important.

14:45:46 Our goal is more important probably to address seniors

14:45:49 and children than anybody else because they are in the

14:45:52 least ability to protect themselves.

14:45:53 And I think we all agree with you 100 percent.

14:45:58 The other thing I wanted to address -- and Karen, these

14:46:01 numbers come from your office, which says that our

14:46:05 current after-school program enrollment in 2009

14:46:11 numbers, which approximately was about 1700 students

14:46:15 after school, enrolled, have dropped down to 784

14:46:20 students enrolled in our after-school program.

14:46:24 For 2010 that would be obviously two months of

14:46:26 statistics.




14:46:27 And by my calculation, a greater than 50% drop in

14:46:31 enrollment.

14:46:33 That is extremely disturbing.

14:46:34 Bee heard this from folks this morning who talked about

14:46:39 the long-term ramifications of that.

14:46:42 If we aren't taking care of them in our gymnasiums,

14:46:45 then they are out running the streets, and at the end

14:46:47 of the day, I think you said, Charlie, we are going to

14:46:50 pay now or pay later.

14:46:51 And I agree with that 100 percent.

14:46:53 So then the question comes, you know, again Santiago

14:46:58 and Karen can't print money.

14:47:01 They don't have a printing press at home, and all of

14:47:05 our departments are down to next to nothing.

14:47:09 So I gave it a lot of thought.

14:47:17 And you talked to Marty and Chip.

14:47:19 We have the ability to put a straw ballot on the ballot

14:47:23 and I don't think it's something that council should

14:47:24 do.

14:47:24 We could theoretically maybe create a fee like we did

14:47:35 with stormwater seven years ago.

14:47:36 We said we didn't have enough money for stormwater.




14:47:39 We created a fee.

14:47:41 We had stormwater problems.

14:47:43 We put it on their tax bill.

14:47:46 But I'm not suggesting that for numerous reasons.

14:47:49 What I'm suggesting is that we ask legal and the parks

14:47:54 and rec department, administration as a whole, to

14:47:58 analyze this question and see if we can perhaps put

14:48:01 this issue on the straw ballot next March and ask the

14:48:05 communities, is this important for the quality of life?

14:48:10 And specifically, I think we -- I calculated this based

14:48:15 upon the stormwater approach.

14:48:17 When we started with the $12 stormwater fee which is

14:48:20 one dollar per month per household, it generated $2

14:48:23 million.

14:48:24 Okay.

14:48:24 I asked Karen earlier in the day, I said, why did we

14:48:28 raise all these fees? How much money are these new

14:48:31 fees generating?

14:48:32 And it was less than a million dollars.

14:48:33 So we caused all this uproar -- do you want to clarify,

14:48:37 Karen?

14:48:37 >> The number I gave you yearly was just in line with




14:48:43 the after-school which was $700,000 in additional fees.

14:48:48 The overall St. Louis what we put into our budget for

14:48:51 this year was is .14.

14:48:53 >> So we are still close to a million dollars, 1.2.

14:48:55 But we nobody that number is going to be going up as

14:48:58 things get worse and we have been told by the mayor

14:49:00 that things are going to get worse.

14:49:01 What I calculated was if we do a $12 per year fee as a

14:49:05 suggestion to the community, but put on the ballot one

14:49:09 dollar per month per household across the board, across

14:49:11 the city, doesn't matter where you live, this is

14:49:15 everybody's problem.

14:49:17 That that would come out to approximately about $2

14:49:20 million generated.

14:49:22 I think that $2 million -- and then if we specifically

14:49:25 earmark it, okay, specifically earmark it and say that

14:49:31 this can only be used -- children and seniors operation

14:49:36 of the rec centers so that way there's no bait and

14:49:39 switch, there's no Florida Lottery-type thing like we

14:49:42 all knoll what happened back then, and it's earmarked

14:49:47 to be additional funds for the operation of our parks

14:49:50 and rec center specifically for children and seniors.




14:49:53 Okay.

14:49:54 And then that way the community won know that this is

14:49:57 what they are voting on.

14:49:59 Now, is this going to solve this?

14:50:00 And by the way, we have a big problem coming up this

14:50:03 summer according to something I read.

14:50:06 It said this summer, the fees have gone up from $70 for

14:50:12 the summer to $55 a week.

14:50:14 I don't know.

14:50:15 Maybe we already did that last year.

14:50:18 But the bottom line is there's a great concern out in

14:50:20 the community that we are going to have children

14:50:21 running the streets this summer because they are not

14:50:24 going to be under our program.

14:50:25 Is this idea going to solve this year's problem?

14:50:27 No.

14:50:33 Mary is our budget chair.

14:50:35 We are going to have to work together to fix this

14:50:36 year's budget problem.

14:50:38 But next year, because this is not going away.

14:50:40 If we put it on the ballot in March and put it out to

14:50:42 the community and say would you be willing to gob for




14:50:44 one dollar a month, $12 a year per household,

14:50:48 specifically targeted for this problem, I think this

14:50:53 community would pass it.

14:50:54 I think this community recognizes that our children and

14:50:56 our seniors deserve it, and I think this community

14:51:02 would pass it.

14:51:04 I don't believe its burdensome.

14:51:06 And, yes, it's an additional fee.

14:51:09 It would be on everybody's tax bill across the board.

14:51:12 But I think it's worthwhile at least asking the

14:51:15 question.

14:51:15 That way, it would be a straw question.

14:51:18 The community would speak to the next council, whatever

14:51:20 council is sitting here next spring, and whatever mayor

14:51:23 is sitting here next spring, would have a message from

14:51:25 the community, and they in turn could enact whatever

14:51:29 the community decides to do or not to do.

14:51:32 But at least from that point forward, if the community

14:51:34 passed it, then there would be a mechanism in place, so

14:51:38 every single year, these same issues wouldn't have to

14:51:41 come forward.

14:51:42 We have great bricks and mortar facilities now.




14:51:48 And because of our CIT program, which by the way was

14:51:51 also a referendum how many years ago.

14:51:53 But that referendum passed so we have good facilities,

14:51:56 but now we don't have the money to operate them.

14:51:59 Okay.

14:51:59 So where are we?

14:52:01 We are back to square one.

14:52:03 You know, they are talking about locking up certain

14:52:05 facilities or closing down or reducing the hours or

14:52:08 et cetera, et cetera, because we can't afford the staff

14:52:12 to put them there.

14:52:13 We can't afford the independent contractors to put in.

14:52:15 So my motion is going to be very preliminary.

14:52:20 I know this is all new to the four of you.

14:52:23 My motion is very preliminary.

14:52:24 It's simply to direct legal and the administration to

14:52:28 work on this question of possibly putting a straw

14:52:32 ballot initiative on the ballot to address the parks

14:52:36 and rec shortfall.

14:52:39 I'm going to toss out this dollar per month per

14:52:42 household just as a starting place to generate

14:52:44 approximately $2 million per year, specifically




14:52:46 earmarked for seniors and children in our rec centers,

14:52:50 specifically to be used for operational funds and

14:52:53 nothing else.

14:52:54 If you all want to take that down the road and tinker

14:52:56 it with, that's fine, too.

14:52:58 That's my motion.

14:52:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

14:53:00 >>MARY MULHERN: Why don't you put that on the ballot

14:53:05 in 2010?

14:53:06 It can be the Dingfelder parks tax.

14:53:12 [ Laughter ]

14:53:16 >> It's a city question.

14:53:18 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm just teasing.

14:53:21 I'm just teasing.

14:53:23 And I wouldn't be opposed -- I'm not necessarily

14:53:26 opposed to doing that at our next municipal elections.

14:53:29 But I think it's too early to do that, because for one

14:53:34 thing our budget committee, I'm going to add as new

14:53:39 business then, we have a resolution to put them in

14:53:42 place again, everybody there is so much data that needs

14:53:48 to be looked at.

14:53:49 These fee changes have been so large and across the




14:53:55 board.

14:53:55 There's no way to even know, you know, how these should

14:54:01 be structured.

14:54:01 And I think it's quite clear.

14:54:03 Plus, we had to have daycare after school and I

14:54:08 couldn't wait a year and a half till I could find

14:54:11 somewhere that I could afford to send my daughter.

14:54:13 So I think that could be a long-term solution but it's

14:54:17 not the solution to the problem now where we have got,

14:54:20 what, 70%, almost 70% drop-off in after-school program

14:54:26 attendance.

14:54:27 I mean, we heard these people here today.

14:54:29 We heard the moms.

14:54:30 We heard the coaches.

14:54:32 We heard the pastors.

14:54:33 We heard the police officers.

14:54:36 And, I mean, this is a crisis.

14:54:38 I think this is a crisis.

14:54:40 And this is something that needs to be resolved.

14:54:44 And I'm going to tell you something.

14:54:46 I'm not going to read any of these e-mails because I

14:54:48 wouldn't do that.




14:54:50 To staff.

14:54:51 You say we are making you look bad.

14:54:53 You're lucky that we are not reading these outloud but

14:54:56 I want you guys to read every one of these and see

14:54:59 because there's something wrong with your priorities.

14:55:01 There's something wrong.

14:55:02 >>> Madam Chair, may a dress that, please?

14:55:06 Number one, I wanted -- and if they were here I would

14:55:10 thank them.

14:55:11 I wanted to thank the speakers that came before this

14:55:13 morning because we are not adversaries with them.

14:55:15 We are allies.

14:55:16 We have been allies with them forever.

14:55:18 The issue is that those voices were not heard, or were

14:55:22 drowned out by the folks that were screaming for tax

14:55:24 revolt a couple of years ago, that were asking folks to

14:55:28 vote for amendments to double the homestead exemption,

14:55:31 to drop my taxes like a rock, and drop like a rock was

14:55:36 the general fund that supports your Parks and

14:55:38 Recreation Department.

14:55:39 That's what happened.

14:55:40 And that's why we are here having this conversation.




14:55:42 You are really preaching to the choir.

14:55:44 We love children.

14:55:45 We love seniors.

14:55:46 We want to serve them.

14:55:47 We want to do all that.

14:55:48 And once upon a teenagers when we could afford to do

14:55:51 that, our parks and rec department had its doors open

14:55:55 to children, seniors, residents, non-residents, and

14:56:00 they were free.

14:56:01 And we could do that and we were glad to do that.

14:56:04 And we love Barksdale, and we love Kate Jackson.

14:56:09 We loved all of those things.

14:56:11 But when we started seeing the revenues decline, and

14:56:13 when we came before you with our last budget, we

14:56:16 factored in something reasonable -- and it's been said

14:56:21 our priorities are wrong.

14:56:22 Let me see a minute on that, we looked at what we were

14:56:25 going to charge, and we benchmarked against most other

14:56:28 cities and municipalities, and the fees we came up with

14:56:32 were the cheapest still in the area.

14:56:36 And let me just explain that for a moment.

14:56:38 Everybody else is charging $48 and above a week for




14:56:43 after-school service.

14:56:44 We started at $25 a week.

14:56:47 I understand when you are used to paying zero or $12 a

14:56:50 day to 25, that is dramatic.

14:56:53 But $25 a week for 20 hours of after-school care.

14:56:58 Now, if you qualify for a reduced rate, that could be

14:57:02 as little as $5 a week.

14:57:05 A dollar a day for after-school program.

14:57:08 Now, you mention the drop-off.

14:57:10 Absolutely.

14:57:10 If you go from a program where everyone is allowed in,

14:57:14 and you really don't have to register, and whether you

14:57:16 pay the $12 a year is an issue or it isn't, and you go

14:57:20 towards a service where you have to register for a

14:57:23 program, and you have to pay for a card and you have to

14:57:26 pay $25 or represent that you have a financial issue

14:57:29 and get it reduced to $5, we are not having those

14:57:33 individuals that would come out and register those

14:57:35 children come out and take advantage of those

14:57:37 opportunities.

14:57:38 We have made scholarships available.

14:57:40 We have friends of parks and rec, the NFL youth center,




14:57:44 Inc., we have had a number of folks.

14:57:46 We'll give money to offset the $25 a week for

14:57:50 after-school care.

14:57:51 I am going to go out on a limb and say $5 for 20 hours

14:57:55 of after-school care a week, that is hard to beat and

14:57:57 hard to find.

14:57:58 We don't argue with you that our attendance has dropped

14:58:00 by 45%.

14:58:02 From what it used to be.

14:58:04 And we expect that there would be a drop-off.

14:58:07 Somebody said, well, that's a bad attitude for

14:58:10 leadership to take, to project.

14:58:12 We have seen what happened in other municipalities when

14:58:14 they instituted fees.

14:58:16 We are not the first ones to do this.

14:58:17 And believe it or not with the resident-nonresident we

14:58:20 weren't the first ones to do that.

14:58:21 We benchmarked and looked at what other municipalities

14:58:25 were doing in order to fall in line and fall under from

14:58:27 what they were doing.

14:58:28 That's what they D.we weren't silly enough to say we

14:58:31 are going to be the first ones.




14:58:32 And when we presented the budget to City Council, we

14:58:34 came in with a budget that was balanced, and it had the

14:58:38 fees and other ways so that we could meet our budget,

14:58:41 and we didn't say we are going to shut down the parks

14:58:43 and rec department for three days out of the week like

14:58:46 some other municipalities proposed, and had these

14:58:49 chambers full of hundreds of people with signs

14:58:51 picketing saying save our parks.

14:58:53 You didn't see that.

14:58:54 Now we did bring up these fees.

14:58:56 Absolutely.

14:58:56 Because we had to.

14:58:57 Because we had to.

14:58:58 The fees again were balanced with other incentives in

14:59:02 the Parks Department to be able to meet the budget.

14:59:06 The fee -- I want to finish.

14:59:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Let him finish.

14:59:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let he in ask ab question.

14:59:15 >> Can be he finish his statement first?

14:59:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm asking beyond.

14:59:20 What I'm saying is if the community, by vote, okay,

14:59:23 says that they, the community wants to give you this $2




14:59:27 million that could be generated by one dollar per month

14:59:29 per household, okay, could you put it to good use for

14:59:32 the seniors and the children?

14:59:34 >>> Absolutely, council.

14:59:35 I'm not arguing that point.

14:59:36 I'm trying for the public to represent, because there

14:59:38 were lots of comments made this morning, and I watched,

14:59:41 and I wanted to be able to be address those.

14:59:43 These fees that we have now, I agree with you, I'm not

14:59:45 disagreeing, I'm saying these fees that we instituted

14:59:48 were not pulled out of thin air.

14:59:49 They were thoughtfully put in place, and yes, they are

14:59:52 excessive to some, but again, that's what we needed to

14:59:56 do to balance the budget.

14:59:57 The fees are your prerogative.

14:59:58 If you want to tweak the fees and change the fee, we

15:00:01 cannot overspend our budget like some other

15:00:03 municipalities.

15:00:03 And I won't mention them that I am very familiar with.

15:00:06 Your parks and rec department has to stay within the

15:00:08 budget it has set.

15:00:09 If you tweak the fees, we have to tweak something else




15:00:13 it may closing some underutilized centers.

15:00:15 It mate many reducing some other things.

15:00:18 That's not me saying that in a threatful manner.

15:00:21 That's me being realistic that we have set a budget

15:00:24 that we have to meet.

15:00:25 >> This year we all realize, Mary, your good points.

15:00:28 You said this year, what I said -- and I say myself, my

15:00:32 solution, okay, putting it on the ballot for next year

15:00:34 is not going to solve this year's problem.

15:00:36 It's in and out going to solve this summer's probes.

15:00:38 I admitted that when I said it.

15:00:40 So we all have to work together in our budget process

15:00:42 to come up with a better solution for this year.

15:00:47 We are all in agreements on that.

15:00:48 But this problem is not going away.

15:00:50 It's not getting any better.

15:00:51 The seniors and those children aren't going to have

15:00:53 more money.

15:00:54 And I would say that they need some help.

15:00:56 So these where I'm coming from on my suggestion.

15:00:58 >> And Madam Chair, just a moment and then I'll be

15:01:05 quiet.




15:01:05 We did meet with the citizens budget advisory committee

15:01:09 during the preparation of last year's budget.

15:01:11 And they in fact urged us to be look at fees and set

15:01:15 fees like other municipalities have done for decades.

15:01:18 And there's an argument out there.

15:01:19 Why haven't we been doing this all along?

15:01:21 Well, why would we?

15:01:23 If it increase it is quality of life and the budget is

15:01:25 there, why wouldn't we charge -- why would we charge

15:01:29 anybody be? We could have done this gradually, sure.

15:01:31 But would that have even passed the City Council to say

15:01:35 we want to charge a fee because we want to charge a

15:01:37 fee?

15:01:37 That wouldn't have made any sense.

15:01:38 So that's the situation we found ourselves in.

15:01:40 And that's why we have the fees we are talking about

15:01:42 today.

15:01:42 >>GWEN MILLER: But about a child being turned away

15:01:47 with a parent out there, is there some kind of way you

15:01:50 can have someone at that center, if a child comes, and

15:01:53 the parent is not with them, you can give that child

15:01:55 that application to take home for their parents to fill




15:01:58 out and bring back?

15:01:59 And that way he can be enrolled.

15:02:00 >>> Madam Chair, absolutely.

15:02:03 We have even gone a step further whereby we know where

15:02:05 some of kids live.

15:02:06 We have gone door to door with the application and

15:02:11 asked them to fill out the application and in some

15:02:13 cases we have been told, we don't know what -- we don't

15:02:16 know want you to know what our financial business is

15:02:19 and we are not going to fill out the application.

15:02:20 We have govern the step beyond not just giving the

15:02:23 child the application, saying take this home.

15:02:25 We have gone door to door because again it's a system

15:02:28 that's very familiar westbound the clients, they know

15:02:29 the children, they nor they live in the community, and

15:02:31 they have even gone out and visited homes.

15:02:33 >>GWEN MILLER: It seems like there should be something

15:02:38 for those kids note to be turned away.

15:02:40 I hate to see kids on the street, they want to go play

15:02:43 basketball, do it at the center and they can't because

15:02:46 their parents --

15:02:47 >>> Madam Chair, they are not being turned away from




15:02:49 using the park.

15:02:50 They are being turned ab way from programming indoors.

15:02:52 There's still outdoor basketball courts.

15:02:54 There's still playgrounds.

15:02:55 They are not being turned away from that.

15:02:57 Anybody can do that.

15:02:58 But they are being turned away from coming in and using

15:03:00 a program, if they have not been registered, if they

15:03:04 have not paid the five dollars a weak, if they have not

15:03:06 done what they needed to do.

15:03:07 >> The program you are talking about are computers?

15:03:09 >> I'm talking about -- that's correct, that's correct.

15:03:12 >>MARY MULHERN: This is way want to say.

15:03:16 I understand that for a long time everybody has done

15:03:27 something in the Parks Department.

15:03:28 The problem that I see is the way the fees are being

15:03:32 raised -- number one, since our fees were so low, you

15:03:35 can't just in one day say okay, we are gone, and from

15:03:41 paying nothing and now you have got to pay 700 percent

15:03:44 more or whatever you heard about people from out side

15:03:46 the county.

15:03:47 That's one thing.




15:03:52 I think a lot of this wouldn't have happened if you had

15:03:54 planned it on a gradual year by year, now, incremental

15:03:58 increase.

15:03:59 So that's something I think we should look at.

15:04:01 The other thing is, it depends on the program.

15:04:06 It's like councilman Miranda said, the old people and

15:04:09 the children.

15:04:09 It's those people, retirees on fixed income who can't

15:04:12 afford the fees.

15:04:14 And then we have all of these people who are here today

15:04:17 from East Tampa, who someone said -- and this sounded

15:04:22 reasonable to me P.I don't know if it's true but he

15:04:25 said the average income there is $20,000.

15:04:27 They can't afford anything.

15:04:29 So if 57 people could afford it last year and only five

15:04:35 can afford it this year, there's something really

15:04:37 wrong.

15:04:39 And instead of -- if you are finding that your sliding

15:04:45 okay, it shouldn't be something that would make people

15:04:49 feel so embarrassed.

15:04:52 You should make it easy for someone to come in and not

15:04:55 have to say, "I don't have any money, I'm poor," a kid




15:05:00 to have to come in and say that.

15:05:02 And I think the other thing that was really

15:05:04 troubling -- and I have heard you and Karen reference

15:05:06 it -- well, we may have to close some of these centers.

15:05:13 If all of these people were here from Oak Park day

15:05:15 saying please don't close our center, please don't

15:05:18 close our center, and then when I look at their

15:05:20 after-school program it went from 65 kids to 15.

15:05:24 So it's on its way to being not functioning because the

15:05:29 fees are too high.

15:05:30 So I think, you know, people on Davis Islands, people

15:05:34 in South Tampa, there are people who can afford sore of

15:05:42 the fees.

15:05:43 Maybe the art fees can go up.

15:05:45 But you have to look at this by -- we do set the fee

15:05:49 So I think we need to have our budget committee look at

15:05:52 this.

15:05:52 And I also want to remind you that when we passed both

15:05:56 this and your contract, we were all leery and said we

15:06:00 want to see how this works out.

15:06:01 So it doesn't look good.

15:06:04 At this point.




15:06:07 So there needs to be a lot of work.

15:06:09 And I don't know why we are hearing -- we are hearing

15:06:11 from you that there's all this scholarship money

15:06:15 available.

15:06:15 And we don't turn anyone away.

15:06:17 But that is not what we are hearing from people in the

15:06:19 community.

15:06:19 And I don't think they are all making it up.

15:06:23 So there's some disconnect.

15:06:24 There's some difficulty.

15:06:29 With them being able to manage that.

15:06:31 And that's just something that you all to --

15:06:34 >>GWEN MILLER: We are going to wrap.

15:06:35 We are going to let Mr. Miranda speak and we have to

15:06:37 move on.

15:06:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Fletcher, please.

15:06:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think I got a second to my

15:06:44 motion, too.

15:06:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Chip, if I may, what is a straw

15:06:49 ballot do?

15:06:49 Does it bind anything to anyone?

15:06:51 Or does it put it on the shoulders of another council?




15:06:53 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: It's not binding by that statutory

15:06:59 process.

15:06:59 It's advisory.

15:07:00 And it would be the next council to decide how and when

15:07:02 to act on that.

15:07:04 >> So I agree with Mr. Dingfelder that on the process,

15:07:07 but I disagree on just putting it on a straw ballot,

15:07:11 because then those that are here in, my opinion,

15:07:16 somebody else's problem.

15:07:20 I would like to see it done either yes, we will do it,

15:07:23 or no, we won't do it, and let the people -- let this

15:07:28 be an issue on this electoral elections period coming

15:07:33 up for recreation, that it be for water, let the people

15:07:37 who are running for council have a debate on this, let

15:07:40 the people running for mayor have a debate on this, and

15:07:44 those fortunate ones who are running for other

15:07:46 offices -- notice you I didn't mention any -- have a

15:07:49 debate on this.

15:07:50 So it's debatable.

15:07:55 I think the public, although we have good

15:07:57 representation here today, this is a small cosm of

15:08:03 what's coming.




15:08:04 If the public is entitled to hear us debate the issues

15:08:06 as to why -- you know, it might be that you have got

15:08:12 now a tea party, and you are going to have a coffee

15:08:14 party, and you are going to have the ping-pong party,

15:08:17 and you are going to have the tennis party.

15:08:18 All these committees are going to be formed, I guess,

15:08:21 to -- I'm not against telling the people the facts.

15:08:25 I don't believe anyone up here is.

15:08:27 And let them decide.

15:08:32 I'm not opposed to what Mr. Dingfelder brought up,

15:08:35 because I feel it's a necessity for those who gave us

15:08:37 the opportunity to be where we are today, to put the

15:08:41 city to the standards before we got here, and those

15:08:44 that are so young who are going to carry the tradition

15:08:46 of those who left and gave them the same opportunity.

15:08:50 Everything here works in a unit.

15:08:53 And I really don't want to build more prisons.

15:08:57 I want to build more rec centers.

15:08:59 Thank you, Madam Chair.

15:09:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can I tweak my motion?

15:09:09 Let me tweak it then.

15:09:11 Because I really feel strongly about it, that




15:09:13 particular issue, whether or not it's straw ballot or

15:09:16 something binding.

15:09:17 Let me ask legal to look at both.

15:09:19 Look at it both ways and come back to us to see if it's

15:09:23 possible to create a binding thing.

15:09:25 I wasn't even sure we could create a binding language

15:09:28 along those lines.

15:09:29 But --

15:09:31 >>> I'm not aware of one off the top of my head but we

15:09:34 can certainly look at it.

15:09:35 >> So let me look at both avenues and that would be my

15:09:40 amended motion, looking for a second.

15:09:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I learned one thing in politics.

15:09:45 You don't put two issues on the ballot at the same

15:09:47 time.

15:09:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No.

15:09:52 >> Thank you for agreeing with me.

15:09:53 Now we are best friends again.

15:09:55 So what I am saying is, if I was to bring up the water

15:09:57 issue on the ballot, is it needed?

15:10:01 Yes.

15:10:01 Is it needed as quick as this one here?




15:10:03 No.

15:10:04 So I'm not trying to weasel out of anything, but I

15:10:09 realize that the water issue is something that is 10,

15:10:13 15 years away, and I want the next council, the next

15:10:15 mayor, and those coming after me to be very well aware

15:10:19 of what it is.

15:10:19 And I will be bringing it back.

15:10:22 However, this issue is a necessity today.

15:10:28 The water issue, I can wait.

15:10:30 So if somebody wants to question me on that, I'm

15:10:32 willing to take them on.

15:10:35 Not physically, of course, unless they are smaller or

15:10:38 older than I am, then come on, baby.

15:10:41 But what I'm saying is that we have to understand the

15:10:47 priorities as things happen and this one now has more

15:10:50 priority because it needs the quick fix now.

15:10:52 The water issue can be delayed.

15:10:54 Thank you.

15:10:55 My best friend.

15:10:56 >> I seconded it.

15:11:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: My M.D. amended motion is to ask

15:11:04 staff to look into this suggestion that you raised in




15:11:08 terms of possibly the straw ballot next year, and then

15:11:11 as amended we would also ask staff, legal and staff to

15:11:15 look into a binding referendum that can only be one of

15:11:17 the two, obviously.

15:11:20 But staff will get back to us in 30 days.

15:11:23 >> We have a motion and a second.

15:11:26 All in favor of the motion say Aye.

15:11:27 Opposed, Nay.

15:11:28 >> Nay.

15:11:31 >> Motion carried with Mulhern voting no.

15:11:33 >>MARY MULHERN: Here's why I voted no, John.

15:11:39 Because you are talking about a long-term solution, and

15:11:41 this is a dire situation.

15:11:43 And we don't have a lot of power.

15:11:46 But bee were told we have the power to set these fees.

15:11:51 We have to approve the budget.

15:11:53 So we can get to work.

15:11:55 And I am going to do it and work with the budget

15:11:57 committee, and I am going to figure out -- and with

15:12:00 Karen -- to get the numbers, because there's a lot of

15:12:03 numbers we don't have.

15:12:04 So it's hard for us to analyze this.




15:12:08 But I will get with you to tell you what I need because

15:12:12 I know you are really good about getting us that stuff.

15:12:15 But we need to look at these fees, and we need to

15:12:18 change them, and we need to find money in the budget to

15:12:21 do that.

15:12:22 And we need to do that as soon as possible.

15:12:24 So that is what I would like to charge our budget

15:12:27 committee with doing as their first task, when they get

15:12:31 started very soon, and I am going to start looking.

15:12:35 But I also have to say the other thing about the ballot

15:12:37 initiative idea, I'll tell you what.

15:12:39 This, if we can't fix this problem -- I guess I'm in a

15:12:45 hurry to get on to the next wonderful issue.

15:12:49 But if we can't fix this problem, then, you know, this,

15:12:54 as Charlie said, the next mayoral debate, you better

15:12:57 talk about it because the administration makes these

15:12:59 priorities.

15:13:00 And they made all these decisions.

15:13:03 So the mayor is the one that makes these proposals, and

15:13:09 we can sift through them and try really hard, and beg

15:13:12 to have changes and, you know, cut line items, but we

15:13:17 can't make her, or he, whoever the next mayor will be,




15:13:21 spend any money.

15:13:23 So start sending your e-mails to the mayor's office,

15:13:26 too.

15:13:26 >>GWEN MILLER: We are going to move on to item number

15:13:30 69.

15:13:33 Item 69.

15:13:34 Who is here for that?

15:13:35 >>> Transportation.

15:13:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The memo we got was clear as mud.

15:13:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you want to hear from them then?

15:13:46 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: The memo from the public works

15:13:48 department -- and we can give you more detail on this,

15:13:50 but there are FDOT standards and then there are city

15:13:54 code, and basically sets out how you go about doing

15:13:57 sidewalks and how they interface with driveways.

15:14:01 And I believe what was attempted to be said is that if

15:14:07 the driveway meets the standards for the continuous

15:14:11 paved surface, if it's with pavers, up to FDOT

15:14:18 standards for pavers, then they work with the property

15:14:20 owner.

15:14:23 From prior meetings, we thought was what was desired.

15:14:27 If it's something different, we can talk about that.




15:14:29 But I guess the question is really what are you all

15:14:35 looking for?

15:14:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We have heard prosecute the Davis

15:14:42 Island civic association specifically, because there's

15:14:45 been relatively more construction there than other

15:14:47 places lately, but they are concerned that the

15:14:49 decorative drive, the decorative pavers are trumping

15:14:52 the sidewalks which gives the drivers a false sense

15:14:57 that they have priority over the people on the

15:14:59 sidewalks.

15:15:00 What I think I would like to do, because this may be

15:15:02 kind of a specialized issue, is set a special

15:15:05 discussion meeting on this and invite the

15:15:07 representatives from the neighborhood, transportation,

15:15:09 and design, because that's construction services,

15:15:12 because they are kind of at cross purposes, and I would

15:15:15 like to set that.

15:15:16 And I realize this is an issue of -- there are

15:15:20 relatively few people's interest four the afternoon of

15:15:28 March 25th at 1:30.

15:15:31 Special discussion meeting on this topic.

15:15:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.




15:15:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.

15:15:35 All in favor of the motion say Aye.

15:15:37 Opposed, Nay.

15:15:38 Item number 70.

15:15:40 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Administrator for public works and

15:15:50 utility services.

15:15:55 I heard Ms. Mulhern this morning say that she had a

15:15:59 conversation about whether or not we should have a

15:16:02 PowerPoint presentation.

15:16:04 I have a gentleman here who has been waiting since 9:00

15:16:07 this morning to give you a five-minute presentation.

15:16:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We have seen it.

15:16:12 >>MARY MULHERN: That's why I brought that up.

15:16:13 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: I realize at some time in the past

15:16:16 you have seen some pieces of information and we have

15:16:19 heard a lot from the public that has said various

15:16:21 things, some of which may or may not be consistent with

15:16:25 these presentations or what's actually going on.

15:16:27 >>MARY MULHERN: It's five minutes?

15:16:32 >> Yes.

15:16:33 >>MARY MULHERN: What I said was I wanted our questions

15:16:35 answered by legal and administration, and then we




15:16:38 could -- I'm willing to watch the PowerPoint.

15:16:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Five minutes.

15:16:44 Is that okay?

15:16:50 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: The primary question is we are not

15:16:52 aware of any city permits that would require -- this is

15:16:56 an expressway authority project on state right-of-way.

15:16:58 That's why we thought the most informative thing was to

15:17:02 explain the project to you all, and then we can answer

15:17:04 any questions.

15:17:04 But they would not need to come before you for any

15:17:07 permits, any authorization, any approvals.

15:17:09 Certainly council has an opinions on these things but

15:17:13 there's not a formal regulatory structure that's

15:17:15 relevant here.

15:17:16 >>MARY MULHERN: What about the administration?

15:17:22 The administration, transportation department, the

15:17:23 mayor, what's their role in this?

15:17:26 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: To my knowledge the administration

15:17:27 has not formulated an opinion on this item and there's

15:17:31 not again a regulatory approval process that the city

15:17:35 would have to have that kind of authority.

15:17:39 >> Then this is a question for Mr. Daignault.




15:17:41 I would like to point out there was a letter from Mr.

15:17:44 Daignault to the Department of Transportation.

15:17:48 >>> Correct.

15:17:50 Mrs. Mulhern, I know the letter you are talking about.

15:17:53 >> Perhaps you can tell us what prompted that.

15:17:55 >> I would be glad to do that.

15:17:59 As we talked about water the other day, we realized

15:18:01 that this year we are flush with water and last year we

15:18:05 couldn't find a drop of water anywhere and the drought

15:18:08 was taking the river down.

15:18:09 A few years ago, we had a lot of development going on

15:18:12 south of Gandy, Rattlesnake Point, New Port project,

15:18:16 Georgetown, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, was going

15:18:18 on.

15:18:19 The council was interested in we need to have a study

15:18:21 to see what's going on south of Gandy, in the

15:18:24 development.

15:18:25 And we did that study.

15:18:27 And the consultants came back --

15:18:30 >>MARY MULHERN: So did council ask to have the study

15:18:32 done about an overpass?

15:18:39 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: There was a request from the City




15:18:40 Council that we do a study with regard to development

15:18:45 south of Gandy.

15:18:48 I didn't say anything about --

15:18:51 >>MARY MULHERN: Not the transportation, just the

15:18:53 population.

15:18:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: As related to transportation.

15:18:56 >>> Well, how it was going to impact the roads, yes,

15:18:59 south of Gandy.

15:19:00 And the Gandy area.

15:19:02 But it was as a result of development that was

15:19:04 occurring in the south of Gandy area.

15:19:06 >> Westshore?

15:19:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And rezonings and DRIs.

15:19:14 >>> Correct.

15:19:16 And if I am not mistaken it was the Rattlesnake Point

15:19:19 was the sort of decision-making that we need to know

15:19:22 what's going on.

15:19:23 We need to see the impact of all of this development on

15:19:25 our Rhodes road system.

15:19:27 That's correct.

15:19:28 And so we did that study.

15:19:31 And that study was reported back to the City Council.




15:19:35 And there were two or three recommendations from the

15:19:39 consultant based on -- when your development gets to

15:19:43 this level, and the trip generation is at this level,

15:19:46 you will need to do these road improvements.

15:19:48 And when it gets a little higher you will need more.

15:19:50 When it gets a little higher, you will need more.

15:19:52 And they did include at that point a suggestion for

15:19:56 somehow extending the Crosstown, or the expressway, out

15:19:59 to Gandy.

15:20:03 As a result of that, and the date of my letter if I am

15:20:05 not mistaken is 2007.

15:20:07 As a result of that, we did in fact say FDOT, would you

15:20:10 put this into your planning, and look into this?

15:20:14 We would be interested in seeing -- because it was

15:20:20 approached once before with a different type of concept

15:20:22 and it whats not successful so we had stopped it.

15:20:25 So, yes, that's was we did.

15:20:26 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.

15:20:28 I think that was one of the problems I had with it.

15:20:35 In fact, when Joe Waggoner -- and I don't know if you

15:20:39 were one of the people that met with us -- but the

15:20:41 expressway authority met with -- offered to meet with




15:20:44 everyone on council, a year, more than a year ago, to

15:20:48 talk about this --

15:20:49 >>> Yes.

15:20:50 >>MARY MULHERN: And at that point, I didn't see -- and

15:20:53 I still haven't really seen any evidence of the need

15:20:59 based on the development that had been happening, and I

15:21:04 think that certainly council asking for that study, and

15:21:06 you asking FDOT for that study, made a lot of sense

15:21:09 back then, but none of those developments, they have

15:21:12 all gone bankrupt.

15:21:14 >>> And we are trying -- we are kind of getting into

15:21:18 the presentations that I would like to have you see,

15:21:22 just like with any project, you come to a point where

15:21:25 you determine, or you have to stop and back up and say,

15:21:28 is this a feasible project?

15:21:30 Does this make sense?

15:21:31 And again, if we can run through this presentation, you

15:21:34 will see that that's part of the process, and add will

15:21:38 have to be done at that some point.

15:21:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Let's see the presentation, and then

15:21:42 you ask the question after the presentation.

15:21:44 >>MARY MULHERN: Let me say way want to say, please.




15:21:47 I think this is great that I asked for this, because

15:21:51 initially there at least was some constituent and

15:21:59 elected official genesis for this project, right snow

15:22:02 now the situation is completely different.

15:22:04 So great.

15:22:04 We'll see what the project is.

15:22:06 But we have heard from the community, and that's my

15:22:08 number one question.

15:22:09 I don't know if you are working for the expressway

15:22:12 authority or -- okay.

15:22:13 >>> This is Jeff Novotny, a principal and the project

15:22:21 manager, an engineer and planner and he's with American

15:22:24 consulting engineers of Florida, and they are under

15:22:26 contract to the Tampa Hillsborough expressway

15:22:30 authority.

15:22:30 If we could bring that presentation up.

15:22:32 >>> My name is Jeff Novotny, Wesley chapel.

15:22:45 Thank you for letting me discuss the Gandy connector

15:22:48 project and where it stands today.

15:22:50 You are about to see before you identifies the general

15:22:54 location along Gandy Boulevard from just east of the

15:22:56 Gandy bridge over Tampa Bay towards Lee Roy Selmon




15:23:03 Expressway.

15:23:03 During the course of the time since Mr. Daignault

15:23:05 indicated that letter to the department, the

15:23:07 transportation department, the expressway authority did

15:23:12 a PD&E study in August 2008.

15:23:15 After that the expressway authority developed a project

15:23:17 advisory group made up of dozens of members of the

15:23:20 community, including members of elected officials,

15:23:24 agencies, that are involved.

15:23:26 The very first meeting was to identify some of the key

15:23:29 issues that exist out in the area.

15:23:31 After that possible solutions were identified, and

15:23:34 following that in April of 2009, alternative public

15:23:39 workshop presented alternatives.

15:23:41 Public hearing wags held in August of 2009 and a

15:23:45 follow-up to the project advisory group occurred in

15:23:48 2009.

15:23:49 Essentially, presented the recommendations to the

15:23:52 D.O.T., and that's where the project stands at this

15:23:54 point.

15:23:59 Is the solution that the study recommends is a two-lane

15:24:02 project for regional trips, and being a toll agency.




15:24:07 To deal with toll trips.

15:24:08 There's minimal impacts in terms of construction.

15:24:11 I'll explain how that is.

15:24:12 No impacts to residential properties in terms of

15:24:14 acquisition.

15:24:15 One business property acquisition that relates to an

15:24:17 extension of Bridge Street.

15:24:19 The issues dealt with traffic flow, hurricane

15:24:22 evacuation, as well as community issues relative to

15:24:26 business and neighborhood shopping areas.

15:24:28 Based on the issues from the advisory group we

15:24:33 developed objectives.

15:24:34 This is a picture that paints a thousand words in terms

15:24:37 of what this project is about.

15:24:38 This is along Gandy Boulevard on the south side across

15:24:40 from the Sweetbay.

15:24:42 After the construction was done, you can see the new

15:24:45 sidewalk is in place.

15:24:46 The new bridge would be roughly 30 feet in elevation.

15:24:51 We looked at various Heights, and elevation was such

15:24:55 that it increase it is -- maximizes the visibility of

15:25:00 businesses on both sides of the roadway.




15:25:02 The light poles there today are 20 feet high.

15:25:04 We also looked at another spot at Hesperides, basically

15:25:10 in line with the front of that building.

15:25:11 You can see from that perspective what this would look

15:25:13 like.

15:25:14 We overlaid the bridge structure there.

15:25:19 In terms of construction, the project like this is

15:25:21 built in terms of the segmental bridge so you basically

15:25:24 work from one end to the other, building a pier,

15:25:27 building another pier, then connecting it with pieces

15:25:29 of -- segments of concrete of the actual bridge

15:25:32 structure, so it does not results in a mass destruction

15:25:36 of what was already constructed by the Department of

15:25:37 Transportation.

15:25:39 It works within zones, within the median, to construct

15:25:42 the piers, and then to extend the bridge over the top.

15:25:47 Part of the project also involves, since the regional

15:25:49 traffic is going to be removed from a good portion of

15:25:52 the regional traffic from Pinellas, would be removed

15:25:55 from Gandy Boulevard down below, the Department of

15:25:57 Transportation has been willing to discuss improving

15:26:00 Bridge street, extending it north of Gandy, and provide




15:26:04 connection between two key residential developments,

15:26:08 Regency cove and Culbreath key, to provide access

15:26:11 points on Gandy that doesn't exist today.

15:26:13 This is one thing through the community coordination

15:26:17 that was an important point.

15:26:19 If that location is warranted, the department would be

15:26:22 willing to install a signal at that location.

15:26:26 Yes?

15:26:28 >>MARY MULHERN: Regency cove has access to Gandy now.

15:26:31 That's how you get in and out of there.

15:26:32 >>> Regency cove today actually south of Gandy in terms

15:26:39 of a right-in, right-out access from Gandy itself.

15:26:43 This would allow full access left and right in and out

15:26:47 of Regency cove from their Gandy entrance.

15:26:50 They also have access --

15:26:52 >>MARY MULHERN: They wouldn't have to pull out on

15:26:55 Gandy.

15:26:55 >>> And U-turn would have wouldn't have to occur.

15:27:00 >> I think that picture is provided now with a solid

15:27:03 median?

15:27:03 >> Yes.

15:27:04 The picture there is prior to construction, the




15:27:05 overlay.

15:27:06 >> Because previously they could come out and make a

15:27:08 left and come into Tampa.

15:27:10 Now they have to come out and make a right, go toward

15:27:12 the bridge.

15:27:12 They have to loop backwards as they go toward the

15:27:16 bridge, and then loop over and then come back.

15:27:18 >> As a result of that --

15:27:19 >> As a result of the construction.

15:27:21 >> In terms of evacuation, it was discussed this

15:27:25 morning about how a bridge would work in terms of

15:27:27 evacuation.

15:27:28 The Gandy bridge is a four-lane bridge.

15:27:30 All the eastbound traffic coming to Tampa would still

15:27:33 exist in terms of the evacuation but the westbound

15:27:36 Gandy bridge would be shut down in that situation.

15:27:38 So essentially you have two lanes coming in from

15:27:41 Pinellas.

15:27:41 This bridge would allow all the traffic from Pinellas

15:27:44 to get directly onto the bridge running the bridge in

15:27:48 the same direction.

15:27:49 So we would run contra flow with the westbound lane.




15:27:53 That would permit the Gandy roadway to serve, to fully

15:27:57 serve South Tampa residents, providing better access

15:28:00 for both South Tampa residents, and extreme line access

15:28:03 for Pinellas, so they are not mixing.

15:28:09 We had a number of meetings including eight-plus

15:28:12 meetings with individuals and groups that are very

15:28:14 aware of what's happening in terms of what the project

15:28:17 is about, and how it's come to be what it is.

15:28:20 Based on the input of the advisory group, there are at

15:28:23 least a half dozen items here that I have identified

15:28:25 that the project now includes as a result of that

15:28:29 input.

15:28:29 (Bell sounds)

15:28:32 One particular point is the transit components where we

15:28:34 looked at adding turnouts, along Gandy Boulevard, near

15:28:39 Lois, that don't exist today, to pull out onto Gandy

15:28:44 and provide a better bus stop in the areas.

15:28:47 We coordinated with Hart and PSTA on those.

15:28:50 As Mr. Dingfelder mentioned, cutter developed a

15:28:57 business study, inventoried almost 100 businesses along

15:29:00 Gandy Boulevard.

15:29:01 The negative impacts as he indicated, there was roughly




15:29:05 $1.9 million estimated revenue base, business base,

15:29:09 that maybe lost as a result of this, out of the $140

15:29:13 million generated within the area.

15:29:16 Most of those would be pass-by related impacts, roughly

15:29:22 13 jobs out of 800-plus as a result of that piece.

15:29:26 The congestion relief would provide travel time

15:29:30 savings.

15:29:31 It would allow businesses that rely on local Gandy

15:29:35 traffic to actually enhance and possibly get additional

15:29:38 traffic in.

15:29:40 The study identified potentially five new jobs, and

15:29:43 almost $1 million of revenue from those.

15:29:48 Public hearing was held.

15:29:50 Oral statements were taken, recorded.

15:29:53 Where we stand now today is the study is fitting in the

15:29:59 Department of Transportation in regards to their

15:30:01 technical review of it.

15:30:02 The plan is to complete it the PD&E study.

15:30:07 Several things have to happen.

15:30:09 One is that as the department provides the concurrence,

15:30:13 the board is anticipating to take up the study March

15:30:17 22nd at their next board meeting.




15:30:19 At that point they may elect to accept the study, and

15:30:22 pass the study along to the D.O.T. to sign as it's a

15:30:27 roadway on D.O.T. property as a state facility,

15:30:30 strategic intermodal system highway.

15:30:33 They would have the final signature on that document.

15:30:35 And a fourth point that would then allow the board to

15:30:38 authorize the design.

15:30:41 That could begin within about summertime.

15:30:44 Design generally takes about two years.

15:30:46 However, there's another important key decision point

15:30:48 that still exists.

15:30:50 In a toll facility, all toll facilities are required to

15:30:52 have an investment grade revenue study performed on

15:30:56 them.

15:30:57 That study wouldn't be undertaken until the design is

15:31:01 far enough along so the cost could be very well

15:31:04 refined.

15:31:05 That study likely would exist sometime in 2011.

15:31:08 That study could identify that the project is

15:31:10 financially feasible and forward it at that time, it

15:31:13 could identify based on traffic, the needs are going to

15:31:16 be further along, several years later, and may




15:31:21 recommend later on in the study.

15:31:22 It could recommend that the project is not feasible at

15:31:24 all.

15:31:25 In that case, you still have a study that could be

15:31:29 taken up by any agency, whether the state, the county

15:31:31 or even the city.

15:31:33 After that investment grade study, our schedule just

15:31:36 shows this is the fastest possible that this project

15:31:40 could happen would be in fiscal year 2013 where the

15:31:43 construction could begin.

15:31:44 Roughly two years.

15:31:47 Any sort of things could go in and delay the process

15:31:49 relative to the investment rate study and results of

15:31:52 that.

15:31:53 But that's another important decision point, that the

15:31:56 expressway authority will still have the final decision

15:31:59 at that point to say, do we want to move forward with

15:32:02 this project now that we have these studies and the

15:32:04 design nearly complete?

15:32:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?

15:32:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let me think about it.

15:32:20 Go ahead.




15:32:21 Come back to me, Madam Chair.

15:32:23 Oh, I forgot but now I know.

15:32:25 In the beginning you sort of glossed over the why.

15:32:28 Okay.

15:32:28 You talk about, did a great job on the what in terms of

15:32:33 how we are going to build it and what it's going to

15:32:34 look like and everything.

15:32:36 But I think we need to step back a little bit because

15:32:38 many of the questions that were raised from citizens

15:32:39 this morning have related to the "why."

15:32:43 And Mr. Daignault alluded to it a minute ago in terms

15:32:47 of the fact that we have current traffic congestion on

15:32:49 Gandy, and according to some of the numbers I was

15:32:52 seeing a few years ago, we anticipate much worse

15:32:55 traffic congestion on Gandy, which I believe is one of

15:32:59 the whys.

15:33:00 And elaborate on that, if you would.

15:33:02 And the other part you mentioned was the hurricane

15:33:04 evacuation.

15:33:06 I recall hearing about -- I wasn't down there that day

15:33:12 but I recall hearing when we had an evacuation south of

15:33:14 Gandy for a storm, within the last decade, that folks




15:33:18 could not get across Gandy Boulevard on any of the

15:33:21 cross streets, because Gandy became so congested with

15:33:26 Pinellas County evacuees that our folks who live south

15:33:29 of Gandy, and were trying to get across on Westshore on

15:33:32 Lois, on Manhattan, et cetera, couldn't get out of

15:33:36 their own neighborhoods to flee the storm that they

15:33:41 were being told to get away from. Anyway, two big

15:33:43 questions.

15:33:44 Go ahead.

15:33:44 >>> Sure.

15:33:45 If could you bring my slide show up, I do have a couple

15:33:48 slides at the end if I could go to this one.

15:33:50 This one is relative to traffic.

15:33:51 And it's obviously part of the purpose.

15:33:56 Gandy Boulevard traffic 2008, roughly wags about 40,

15:34:01 45,000 vehicles per day.

15:34:03 The construction on there obviously prohibited us from

15:34:05 really getting a true count towards the end of

15:34:08 2008-2009.

15:34:11 No doubt the project itself that was constructed has

15:34:14 streamlined some of the traffic flows through there,

15:34:17 makes it operate better.




15:34:19 That was part of the intention.

15:34:20 It wasn't going to alleviate everyone's problems and

15:34:23 fought congestion, future capacity, but would tray to

15:34:26 make the operations flow better.

15:34:28 That's one thing that's happened.

15:34:29 No doubt traffic is less all over the state.

15:34:33 No doubt businesses are down.

15:34:35 In general, I think the state Department of

15:34:40 Transportation has seen figures from 5 to 10 to 15% of

15:34:44 traffic dropping.

15:34:45 But in general, traffic has been consistent with what

15:34:48 the projections have been since 20 years ago, that

15:34:52 around this time they would be about 45 to 50,000

15:34:56 vehicles per day.

15:34:57 Projections showed by 2035, without doing anything, to

15:35:01 be about 55,000 vehicles.

15:35:06 Based upon projections here, we see about 35% of the

15:35:09 traffic on Gandy in the future time period has no end

15:35:13 points within the corridor, within the South Tampa

15:35:15 area.

15:35:15 So traffic that doesn't have a trip ending in the area.

15:35:21 It's not directional because we found about half the




15:35:23 traffic is going westbound and half is going eastbound.

15:35:26 This picture here overlays basically