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TAMPA CITY COUNCIL

Thursday, April 1, 2010

9:00 a.m. session


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08:55:31 >> CHAIRMAN THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now

09:04:24 come to order.

09:04:25 The chair will yield to Joseph Caetano.

09:04:27 >> This morning our invocation is going to be given by

09:04:30 Mr. Steve Michelini.

09:04:33 Steve, thank you.

09:04:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Please stand and remain standing for

09:04:41 the pledge of allegiance.

09:04:43 >> We are your humble servants, to you the protector of

09:04:47 all things, the make of spiritual laws and powerful and


09:04:51 giving God.

09:04:51 There is no God like you in heaven or earth.

09:04:54 We ask that you grace and bless all those who appear

09:04:58 here today.

09:04:58 These are mighty issues that are coming before the

09:05:01 Tampa City Council, and we request through prayer your

09:05:05 guidance, your strength, your wisdom, understanding and

09:05:07 forbearance.

09:05:08 We ask that all clouds of confusion and

09:05:10 misunderstanding be lifted from their ears and their

09:05:13 eyes.

09:05:14 Hear our petition, Dear Lord, for spiritual guidance

09:05:17 and understanding.

09:05:18 Give us the ability to instill hope, dispel fear,

09:05:22 empower the right, vanquish the wrong.

09:05:25 Protect our heavenly God-given environment, our

09:05:28 families, all of our men, women and their families who

09:05:31 protect us through their security and our safety.

09:05:35 May we walk in your ways, keep your commandments, be

09:05:39 near you, Dear God, that you may uphold the just causes

09:05:42 that come before this council, show mercy when deserved

09:05:43 and firmness when required to protect the innocent and




09:05:46 uphold the righteous.

09:05:47 Let it be known that all people that we are the

09:05:50 children of God, and those who are bearing witness

09:05:52 shall have the conviction for your guided path and the

09:05:54 insight to give fair decisions so we all may know

09:05:58 through the power of your might the strength and wisdom

09:06:00 of your ways and your guidance.

09:06:02 Praise to you, God, for providing the bountiful gifts

09:06:06 of the earth and all that are we live upon it for the

09:06:08 waters and the sea and all that live under it, And for

09:06:11 the heavens above and all the good within it.

09:06:13 May your blessings be bestowed upon those present today

09:06:16 and those who will appear before this governing board

09:06:19 in all of its deliberations, provide us with all of the

09:06:22 hope that we require, the faith and desire and the

09:06:24 fortitude to prevail.

09:06:26 We ask that you hear our word, uphold the righteous,

09:06:29 lift us from despair and instill hope.

09:06:31 We ask that you never allow our faith to falter in

09:06:35 adversity or weaken in conflict.

09:06:36 Provide us with the strength to endure through

09:06:38 difficult times. In your name, through God's grace,




09:06:41 amen.

09:06:41 (Pledge of Allegiance)

09:06:44 >>GWEN MILLER: We'll have roll call.

09:07:04 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.

09:07:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.

09:07:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.

09:07:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.

09:07:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.

09:07:17 We have several --

09:07:26 >>THE CLERK: Mr. Chairman, you do have the minutes to

09:07:28 approve.

09:07:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to approve the minutes.

09:07:30 >> second.

09:07:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor? Opposes? Okay.

09:07:39 We have several ceremonial items we would like to make

09:07:45 presentations.

09:07:46 First to the Executive Director of the Aviation

09:07:47 Authority, Mr. Louis Miller, followed by councilman

09:07:53 Charlie Miranda.

09:08:02 I am going to ask Mr. Miller and his wife to come.

09:08:15 Also a presentation of the Drew Park CRA, if they will

09:08:19 come.




09:08:20 They also wanted to come and make a presentation.

09:08:22 Council, as we said a few weeks ago, that Mr. Miller

09:08:25 has served this community well since 1996, and he has

09:08:32 really, really worked hard at the Aviation Authority.

09:08:36 I served on the board for five years, five consecutive

09:08:39 years as a county commissioner.

09:08:41 I served as secretary-treasurer there, and had an

09:08:45 opportunity to work with him for five years.

09:08:47 I will tell you that this man, Mr. Louis Miller, served

09:08:51 well this community, served well the Aviation

09:08:54 Authority, and as you know, consistently and continued

09:08:58 to rank Tampa International Airport in the top three.

09:09:04 So certainly we do want to commend him today and

09:09:07 recognize him for his many contributions to the City of

09:09:10 Tampa, not only to the City of Tampa but to the entire

09:09:15 region.

09:09:16 And he is recognized not only in Tampa but throughout

09:09:18 the nation and international for the work that he has

09:09:21 done at Tampa International Airport.

09:09:26 Certainly today he is very much deserving of this

09:09:28 commendation of City Council, and others that will

09:09:33 follow.




09:09:34 So, council, thank you for voting and supporting to

09:09:38 recognize him on this day and to present this

09:09:41 commendation.

09:09:43 It says: Presented to Louis Miller has served as

09:09:47 Executive Director of the Tampa International Airport

09:09:51 and three general aviation airports, Tampa city and

09:09:55 Tampa executive, since July 1996, active in the

09:09:59 community has served on numerous boards, Tampa Bay

09:10:04 partnership, metropolitan planning organization,

09:10:06 greater Tampa Chamber of Commerce, Westshore alliance,

09:10:11 treasurer, airports council international, and

09:10:14 president of Florida airport council, 1994 he was

09:10:18 elected chairman of the North America region of the of

09:10:21 the airport council international.

09:10:24 Throughout these years, he has received awards,

09:10:27 recognition from outstanding public administration to

09:10:30 tourism, person of the year, the Herman Goldner award

09:10:36 for regional leadership, spirit award for leadership

09:10:39 and advancing the spirit of affirmative action, good

09:10:45 government award, good neighbor award, family award --

09:10:51 the list goes on and on that speaks well of your

09:10:54 contributions, what you have done in this community,




09:10:56 and internationally.

09:10:58 So for his many years of service, citizens of the City

09:11:03 of Tampa, Tampa City Council does hereby commend and

09:11:05 recognize his dedication and hard work of Lewis E.

09:11:10 Miller signed by all seven members of City Council

09:11:12 presented this first day of April 2010.

09:11:16 And so with that, Mr. Miller, we would like to present

09:11:20 this to you, and also, I believe, the CRA and Drew Park

09:11:24 has another presentation they would like to give you.

09:11:27 And again, you have been a great gentleman, a great

09:11:31 executive, great administrator to this area, and thank

09:11:35 you that I had five years to work with you and see your

09:11:38 work firsthand in this community.

09:11:41 [ Applause ]

09:11:48 >>> I'm Marissa Shertiza.

09:11:54 Mr. Miller has been active with the CRA since 2008,

09:12:02 part of the strategic planning, guiding us, setting us

09:12:04 on our way to be the great committee that I believe we

09:12:06 are with we are today.

09:12:09 His knowledge and expertise was very helpful to help us

09:12:13 form a lot of our plans.

09:12:15 We especially appreciate his vision of him and his




09:12:22 staff.

09:12:23 Air Cargo Road, the last time I was here I mentioned

09:12:26 how beautiful it is, and you went way past beyond what

09:12:29 was expected.

09:12:30 And I know it took a lot of work.

09:12:34 We appreciate it.

09:12:35 We recognize it.

09:12:37 We are thankful because it's actually a gift to Drew

09:12:39 Park, not only to Drew Park but to the City of Tampa,

09:12:42 and it's absolutely beautiful.

09:12:48 We don't want to the say we are going to miss you

09:12:50 because we hope you are still going to be with us.

09:12:53 And I want to take a moment to say that I witnessed

09:12:56 this gentleman in our meetings, and I witnessed the

09:12:58 passion and the love that he had towards the project

09:13:03 and what he wanted to leave behind as a gift to Drew

09:13:06 Park and to the City of Tampa.

09:13:08 And I want you to know we felt it and we recognize it

09:13:11 and we know that you did it with a lot of love.

09:13:14 In recognition of your years of this service with us,

09:13:18 we are going to present you with a little token so that

09:13:21 you remember us, and hopefully, like I said, you will




09:13:25 still be part of us.

09:13:29 [ Applause ]

09:13:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I don't know if council wants to

09:13:41 express any comments at this time followed by Mr.

09:13:43 Miller.

09:13:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just want to thank you

09:13:47 specifically for the project that you have undertaken

09:13:50 that have added to the beauty of our community and

09:13:54 specifically the airport.

09:13:56 You have done public art, extensive landscaping, you

09:14:01 partnered with the City of Tampa to expand the

09:14:03 reclaimed water, to enhance the landscaping, and also

09:14:07 using our resources more carefully, as well as of

09:14:10 course Cargo Road and the beauty of the different

09:14:13 terminals.

09:14:14 I think outstanding architecture is something that we

09:14:17 value in this community and something that our visitors

09:14:19 value.

09:14:19 And by selecting wonderful architects and public art,

09:14:24 it just makes the experience of for all of us at the

09:14:29 airport as a very high quality experience that's

09:14:33 memorable, that by its very attractiveness markets us




09:14:37 to our community as well as the world.

09:14:39 And I want to thank you for always valuing that and

09:14:41 investigate investing in it.

09:14:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.

09:14:49 If I can call you Lou wigs.

09:14:51 The progress that you made at the airport, your

09:14:54 improvements of recognition that you have made not only

09:14:57 for the airport but for the city are enormous.

09:15:04 When you made your extension into Drew Park it was

09:15:06 received very well, because you did it in a humanely

09:15:10 way.

09:15:10 Air Cargo Road is, believe it or not, hundreds of

09:15:15 people, maybe thousands of people money.

09:15:17 Now why?

09:15:19 You don't even realize what you did.

09:15:21 You changed the speed limit and requested the city to

09:15:24 request change the speed limit from 35 to 45 because

09:15:28 it's an open, beautiful, double-lane road that looks

09:15:32 like it's going to go to someplace beautiful, and is.

09:15:36 But you guys what you have done there, all of you in

09:15:41 your department, and that's an entrance into Drew Park

09:15:43 that will for many years help Drew Park convey itself




09:15:47 and reinvent itself.

09:15:48 And I applaud you and your family for doing such.

09:15:52 And I apologize for taking down that.

09:16:00 Thank you very much.

09:16:02 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Miller, I want to thank you

09:16:03 for everything you have done.

09:16:04 I think you have done an outstanding job and you will

09:16:06 be missed.

09:16:08 Sincere.

09:16:09 Thank you.

09:16:09 >>GWEN MILLER: They have said everything.

09:16:15 But it's a blessing to do the things that he said.

09:16:24 And I am going to miss you.

09:16:27 But you have to be at the airport so we can get

09:16:29 together again because I love working with you.

09:16:32 >> Mr. Miller: I really appreciate the opportunity

09:16:38 over the past 14 years to work with the City Council.

09:16:40 The City Council has been very cooperative and

09:16:42 supportive of what we have done with the city.

09:16:45 Mrs. Saul-Sena mentioned the reclaimed water from the

09:16:47 airport, that Davis Island we've getting the Peter O.

09:16:51 Knight airport, with giving some land back to the city




09:16:55 so they can use it for dog parks and use it for other

09:16:57 things, and just working cooperatively.

09:17:00 The city has a great staff.

09:17:01 And council members have done a great job, and

09:17:03 employees that worked for me are really what made it

09:17:06 happen.

09:17:06 I have been fortunate enough to be the one that was the

09:17:08 CEO, but I have 600 quality employees that make things

09:17:12 work and I want to say thank you very much to all of

09:17:14 you and I really appreciate this.

09:17:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We appreciate you.

09:17:20 [ Applause ]

09:17:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Before I make this commendation,

09:17:50 presentation, I want to say that the best thing about

09:17:53 Brad Baird is his son.

09:17:59 Never expect a fast ball from me because I only threw

09:18:02 them for home runs but Brad Baird's sons is one of the

09:18:09 leading pole vaulters in the State of Florida.

09:18:14 At my alma mater Jefferson he did 14-7.

09:18:20 So but the man can really pole vault.

09:18:25 And I would say by the end of this track season he will

09:18:28 be pole vaulting 15 feet which is an enormous height




09:18:32 for a high school -- he's a junior, right?

09:18:36 Keep him away from my granddaughters.

09:18:41 This from Tampa City Council to all the employees of

09:18:43 the water department for the outstanding job that you

09:18:47 have done, all of you, and it says Tampa City Council

09:18:51 supports the efforts of your department to conserve

09:18:54 water, along with the mayor's proclamation, making

09:19:00 April water wise.

09:19:03 And that means a lot.

09:19:04 Because that means the more water we save, the less

09:19:06 money we have to spend.

09:19:07 And so we are caught in a bind.

09:19:10 But Brad and his department have done an outstanding

09:19:13 job.

09:19:14 Sandra Anderson has done an outstanding job.

09:19:17 We have gone from 2200 customers in reclaimed water to

09:19:21 a little over 4,000.

09:19:23 So it's getting there.

09:19:25 It takes some time, a little longer to do.

09:19:28 But things that are easy are done quickly.

09:19:30 Things that are more difficult takes a little bit more

09:19:34 time.




09:19:36 On behalf of Tampa City Council for you and your

09:19:38 employees, we presents you this plaque and we really

09:19:40 appreciate all of you for the work that all of you have

09:19:42 done 24-7, 365, over 600,000 people, 211 square miles.

09:19:51 >>BRAD BAIRD: Very good.

09:19:52 Very good.

09:19:52 Thank you.

09:19:58 Thank you, City Council.

09:19:59 I want to remind everyone that a year ago about this

09:20:02 time we were in a severe drought.

09:20:04 Times have changed in one year.

09:20:07 But one year ago, our reservoir was low.

09:20:12 Today it's several hundred million gallons of water

09:20:16 going over that dam.

09:20:19 A year ago, we saved 1.27 billion gallons of water in

09:20:24 the water conservation efforts, thanks to your actions,

09:20:32 and the staff behind me, they are responsible for the

09:20:35 water conservation that was achieved, and thanks most

09:20:38 of all to the citizens of Tampa for stepping up,

09:20:43 listening to you, listening to the water department on

09:20:46 how to conserve water, and they really did.

09:20:48 They stepped up and saved a historical amount of water




09:20:55 for the city.

09:20:56 So thank you to all, to you and to the citizens and to

09:20:59 our staff that made it happen.

09:21:03 [ Applause ]

09:21:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Before we move to review of the

09:21:18 agenda, public comment, one last presentation to make

09:21:20 to Councilwoman Linda Saul-Sena for ten years of

09:21:24 service.

09:21:27 I know you have been around longer than that.

09:21:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's ten on top of another --

09:21:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I was going to say I thought you had

09:21:35 been around 25 or 30.

09:21:36 He has been around 50.

09:21:39 So congratulations on receiving your ten-year pin.

09:21:46 [ Applause ]

09:21:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We'll/review of the agenda at this

09:21:54 time.

09:21:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Good morning.

09:21:55 In front of you you have the addendum of today's

09:21:58 agenda.

09:21:59 You have one off-agenda item that I would like to ask

09:22:01 council to address in its motion.




09:22:03 Next week, you have a presentation set for a particular

09:22:11 date.

09:22:12 I believe that's the global date.

09:22:18 There is not going to be a presentation made at council

09:22:21 so I would like to request the date be removed from the

09:22:24 agenda, that item be removed from the agenda.

09:22:27 Thank you.

09:22:27 Also, council, you have a substitution on item 44,

09:22:35 Julia Cole, second reading on zoning administrator,

09:22:39 changes to the review process.

09:22:41 That is going to have an effective date of June

09:22:44 1st, 2010, to allow for the process to be put in

09:22:48 place, so when the ordinance does take effect, there is

09:22:53 processes that will support that.

09:22:55 Also, council, items number 39 and 40 are being asked

09:23:01 to be removed.

09:23:02 I believe it's by council member Mulhern for staff

09:23:05 report, to have staff present for that.

09:23:09 Item 49 is a memorandum from Karen Palus,

09:23:13 administration to appear regarding the Davis Islands

09:23:17 park improvement fund.

09:23:18 They are requesting a two-week continuance.




09:23:20 She's unable to attend today.

09:23:23 In review of the agenda, Chairman Scott has noted that

09:23:26 the April 15th agenda is very heavy, so he is

09:23:29 suggesting that that be for May 6th if that is

09:23:33 acceptable.

09:23:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a quick question about that.

09:23:35 When I heard about this I asked if they had contacted

09:23:38 the Davis Island civic association people who brought

09:23:40 this to their attention so that they wouldn't be

09:23:43 showing up assuming that they would have a chance ton

09:23:45 speak on it.

09:23:45 >> I permanently don't know.

09:24:02 And if you wish to have a report.

09:24:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would rather have a real person,

09:24:06 but I just don't wants the neighborhood folks coming

09:24:08 down and expecting a presentation.

09:24:11 So I just needed some reassurance that indeed they had

09:24:14 contacted the neighborhood people and told them that

09:24:15 it's going to be put off. We don't know. I would like

09:24:15 to keep it on to see if anybody shows up. And if you

09:24:15 want to do it at the beginning of May --

09:24:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What we could do, the administration




09:24:40 is not going to show. We can ask the administration to

09:24:42 make calls to the neighbors.

09:24:44 >> The people who wrote the letter asking questions.

09:24:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And let them know it's not going to be

09:24:46 on the agenda, it's going to be continued to May

09:24:49 6th, and we'll continue throughout the morning,

09:24:51 maybe stretch it through the meeting.

09:24:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'll ask my assistant to contact.

09:24:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: So then the motion would be then to

09:25:00 place it on the May 6th agenda of staff reports.

09:25:03 Thank you.

09:25:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.

09:25:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You also have a memorandum from the

09:25:07 city attorney regarding item number 52, and that would

09:25:12 be the recommendation, council, to have that item which

09:25:16 relates to the investigation at the MacKay Bay

09:25:20 facility.

09:25:20 That be removed from the agenda and not discussed

09:25:26 today.

09:25:26 Also, council, there is a request by Chairman Scott

09:25:31 that when these items come up to highlight items number

09:25:34 7, 31 and 35, and I believe we'll do that at this time




09:25:38 at that time.

09:25:41 I believe that is it.

09:25:42 I am not aware of any other changes to today's agenda

09:25:45 and I present it to you for your approval.

09:25:47 Thank you.

09:25:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Are we supposed to vote on the

09:25:53 chairman today?

09:25:55 >> No, that's the 15th.

09:25:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It's in the city charter.

09:25:59 I'm sure it is.

09:25:59 I know that this is in the city charter.

09:26:02 I see Chip Fletcher sitting in the back row.

09:26:04 I think we need to double check.

09:26:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe it's in the year of an

09:26:08 election it's held on the 1st.

09:26:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Always held on the first.

09:26:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And per council's rules, my

09:26:16 understanding is that it's held on the first regular

09:26:18 meeting after April 1st.

09:26:23 >>SAL TERRITO: Legal department.

09:26:24 You are correct on the charter provision.

09:26:25 That deals with when you have a change in office every




09:26:28 four years.

09:26:29 And I looked at the same thing, had the same question

09:26:31 you did, and it's somewhat ambiguous in your rule it

09:26:34 says the first meeting after April 1st.

09:26:41 So April 1st is the first meeting so you could have

09:26:43 done it today if you wished, but the way it's written

09:26:46 is somewhat ambiguous.

09:26:48 So there's nothing improper about not having it today

09:26:51 and having it on the 15th.

09:26:53 But maybe it should be addressed in your rules to say

09:26:56 on April 1st or the first meeting thereafter.

09:26:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That wouldn't require a charter

09:27:02 change.

09:27:02 That's a clarification.

09:27:04 Frankly, I think humor involved is always appreciated.

09:27:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, when I came over, I was told

09:27:11 it's always on April 1st, first meeting in April,

09:27:14 or April 1st, because when I was first sworn in, we

09:27:17 had the April 1st.

09:27:20 So I was told that you don't have to have it.

09:27:25 Councilman Dingfelder.

09:27:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Linda, you are in good company.




09:27:28 I came in thinking the same thing this morning.

09:27:30 But, Mr. Chairman, if we could have a separate vote and

09:27:35 just pull out of committee not for staff reports a

09:27:39 separate vote on item 7.

09:27:43 Item 19.

09:27:46 And somebody was talking about the MacKay Bay.

09:27:51 Were they talking about item 24?

09:27:56 >>MARTIN SHELBY: No.

09:27:57 Item 52 is the item I was discussing which was relating

09:28:00 to news reports about investigation at the recycling.

09:28:11 Mr. Fletcher prepared a memorandum and the suggestion

09:28:12 is to remove it from the agenda pending this

09:28:14 investigation.

09:28:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.

09:28:17 I would like to pull 24 then for discussion during

09:28:22 staff report.

09:28:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Pull 7, 19 and 24.

09:28:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 7 and 19 for discussion and then 24

09:28:32 during staff report.

09:28:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other items need to be pulled?

09:28:35 Okay, then, a motion to make all the changes including

09:28:39 the one that Ms. Saul-Sena made earlier.




09:28:42 I would like to roll that into -- that's just removing,

09:28:47 what is it, the national love day or whatever it is.

09:28:50 >> So moved.

09:28:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

09:28:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?

09:28:56 Opposes?

09:28:57 Okay.

09:28:58 At this time we take public comment.

09:28:59 Council rule is that we give the public opportunity to

09:29:01 speak first on items that are numbered.

09:29:04 So if anyone here wants to speak first on items that

09:29:07 are numbered on the agenda may come forward at this

09:29:09 time.

09:29:10 Subsequent, any item on the agenda after that, or not

09:29:13 on the agenda, may be heard.

09:29:16 And so first anyone here to speak to items on the

09:29:19 agenda that's numbered.

09:29:23 Okay.

09:29:24 Then we'll take public comment from any item.

09:29:28 State your name for the record.

09:29:29 You have three minutes.

09:29:29 >>> My name is Jason Rodriguez.




09:29:33 I am a member of district 4.

09:29:38 Despite last week's vote, obviously I went back and the

09:29:41 reason we are back is because we want to let the

09:29:44 council know, we want to let the Tampa Bay community,

09:29:48 the state, the world, everybody know that we are going

09:29:51 to remain vigilant to fight against discriminatory,

09:29:58 unjust and unnecessary practice of invocations, and

09:30:03 that we are here to fight this until we get the answers

09:30:05 we want.

09:30:06 So that's one reason that we are coming back right away

09:30:10 despite last week's vote.

09:30:12 One thing I did notice about last week's vote, it was

09:30:15 somewhat of a surprise, seemed to be an impromptu vote.

09:30:18 You don't know the entire story there.

09:30:20 But it seemed to be just a way to brush this issue to

09:30:25 the side and maintain status quo.

09:30:32 Seems to sweep it directly under the rug, and to

09:30:35 discard it, seemed like let's get rid of the problem

09:30:39 rather than resolve the problem.

09:30:40 That seemed to be what happened.

09:30:44 And the reason this is a huge issue is that it relates

09:30:47 to larger problems.




09:30:49 And here is what I mean by that.

09:30:52 There's a growing notion in our society that beliefs

09:30:57 and ideas should have rights just like people do, and

09:31:04 we are seeing this idea demonstrated in public schools,

09:31:07 even, and even in legislation.

09:31:11 For example, in public school classrooms, teachers are

09:31:16 pressured to -- they are pressured by parents and

09:31:19 administrators to give all ideas and opinions and

09:31:24 assertions that students make to treat them as equally

09:31:29 valid.

09:31:30 Councilwoman Miller, I know you had a career in

09:31:32 education, and perhaps you have encountered this in

09:31:35 your career.

09:31:39 We see the same kind of thing in proposed legislation

09:31:43 such as the anti-blasphemy law in Ireland.

09:31:51 If we were in Ireland right now I would possibly be

09:31:53 escorted out the door and fined and taken to jail,

09:31:56 because I'm expressing my views against a religion

09:32:00 practice in a government facility.

09:32:02 So that might sound like an extreme parallel, and I'm

09:32:08 not saying that you all are going to cause that to

09:32:10 happen.




09:32:11 But supporting this public prayer in this institution

09:32:20 does is, I think, it enables that kind of thinking, and

09:32:23 it allows the public to think that, well, there's

09:32:26 nothing wrong with having prayer in a government venue,

09:32:33 and this is the type of thinking that can eventually

09:32:37 lead to these type of laws.

09:32:44 So based on the vote at the last meeting, what you

09:32:48 declare to the public is that you endorse the

09:32:51 following.

09:32:53 You say that government meetings are suitable venues

09:32:58 for performing religious rituals.

09:33:02 (Bell sounds)

09:33:05 I really ask you to consider --

09:33:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

09:33:08 Next speaker.

09:33:13 >> John Kieffer.

09:33:15 I'm the president of atheists of Florida and a resident

09:33:18 of Tampa.

09:33:18 I won't disclose my address due to the fact that I am

09:33:21 an atheist and I'm not much liked out there.

09:33:26 First of all, I would like to say happy April fool's

09:33:30 day, and as usual we continue to fool the public here




09:33:35 that there is a separation between church and state.

09:33:38 Church is very alive and well here in City Council.

09:33:41 The gavel comes down.

09:33:42 Everybody is asked to rise so that an individual from

09:33:46 the community usually a clergy can state something

09:33:49 about an abysmal alien that's supposed to be monitoring

09:33:54 our thoughts and influencing our actions.

09:33:57 As atheists we don't believe that.

09:33:59 You give me only two choices.

09:34:01 Again I will say this.

09:34:03 Either pretend to pray, in other words, to stand up and

09:34:06 be not be recognized as an atheist, or to remain seated

09:34:11 and be true to my world view, then I'm recognized by

09:34:14 not only you but also by the community.

09:34:16 Notice also that we are also on televised, the entire

09:34:20 community.

09:34:21 If the camera pans into the community, into the

09:34:23 audience, they can see that I am a religious outsider.

09:34:28 It's none of their business.

09:34:30 Now, I am you very much a visible atheist.

09:34:37 In fact there's probably some up on the City Council.

09:34:40 And you are afraid to admit it.




09:34:41 There are people in the audience that are atheists and

09:34:44 basically concerned about admitting it.

09:34:45 I want to review with you some of the comments that

09:34:50 atheists that are afraid to come in here and speak.

09:34:53 We have two friends that are members of atheists of

09:34:58 Florida, attorneys.

09:34:59 I say, look, you feel strongly about this issue, why

09:35:01 don't you talk to us?

09:35:02 They are just starting up, they are brand new

09:35:04 attorneys, starting up their business, they are afraid

09:35:06 to come in here because they know of how their business

09:35:08 can be affected by outing themselves as atheists.

09:35:12 This is a very serious situation.

09:35:13 They are afraid to even come in here and speak, and one

09:35:18 lady, an attorney, spent an hour on the phone with me

09:35:23 trying to convince me on the tact to take with you.

09:35:27 And I said come in and do it.

09:35:29 She said, no, I can't, because my business would be

09:35:32 ruined.

09:35:32 But I want to share with you some other comments.

09:35:36 This person here was afraid to come in and speak.

09:35:39 All my life I was cowed into pretending to respect




09:35:43 religion.

09:35:45 Unthinkable not to be.

09:35:47 Hard to get over this.

09:35:48 This individual is a retired individual, ten years in

09:35:51 the community.

09:35:52 Seen the work of the group leaders, atheists of

09:35:56 Florida, inspired me to be more open.

09:35:58 Another individual.

09:36:02 As an employee of the school board, speaking as an

09:36:06 atheist scares me given the condescending arrogance

09:36:11 shown by you continuing to incantation, prayer.

09:36:16 And it goes on.

09:36:18 Another one here was actually in the audience, slipped

09:36:21 me a card last time we were here.

09:36:23 Thanks for upholding the rights atheists.

09:36:28 Came in to see and support you.

09:36:30 So you can see that -- in fact there's one individual

09:36:34 here, this individual is a graduate of M.I.T.,

09:36:37 brilliant man.

09:36:38 I have lived and worked in the community for 33 years.

09:36:41 I have kept my atheist world view, a relative secret in

09:36:46 order to keep my job and customers.




09:36:49 At invocation and the like I go along to avoid

09:36:54 provocation.

09:36:54 This is really a very serious civil rights issue.

09:36:57 There are people who are afraid to come in here and

09:37:00 talk to you about this.

09:37:01 And I think you ought to consider that.

09:37:03 These are Americans just like you.

09:37:06 We go to work.

09:37:08 We served our country, many of us.

09:37:11 I was in the military served in combat defending our

09:37:14 Constitution.

09:37:16 And you start your meetings with this religious ritual.

09:37:23 We ask you, why not just do a moment of reflection, a

09:37:26 moment of silence.

09:37:27 That's what the Hillsborough County school board does.

09:37:29 They do a moment of silence.

09:37:30 It's not asking too much.

09:37:32 We respect your religion.

09:37:34 I would actually fight and die if anybody stopped you

09:37:37 from praying or going to church or whatever.

09:37:40 But this is government.

09:37:42 There is a U.S. Constitution.




09:37:44 And you are infringing on my rights.

09:37:46 Thank you very much.

09:37:52 >> Good morning.

09:37:54 Frank Carl.

09:37:54 I came before you about two months ago, the only time I

09:37:58 have been before you speaking on this same issue.

09:38:01 I'm a victim of religious discrimination in the school

09:38:04 system.

09:38:07 I had the audacity to write a letter of reprimand to my

09:38:11 principal for conducting a prayer in a school event

09:38:14 that I was required to attend.

09:38:20 She didn't really accuse me or fire me because of that,

09:38:23 but she gave me such low referrals after that, from

09:38:30 that day on, that I should have been fired right on the

09:38:34 spot if I had read them.

09:38:36 It's so bad now that I can't even get back my

09:38:39 substitute teaching job that I had before I went into

09:38:42 full-time teaching.

09:38:48 But you are supporting this type of discrimination by

09:38:50 having it occur before your meetings.

09:38:55 One thing I understand why you probably think a lot

09:39:03 about conducting a prayer, because I'm sure most of you




09:39:07 really believe it.

09:39:08 You are indoctrinated from the time you are probably

09:39:11 born that you have the only true religion.

09:39:17 Unfortunately, everybody that comes into this community

09:39:19 brings their religion with them.

09:39:20 You don't all have the same religion.

09:39:23 As.

09:39:24 >>MORRIS MASSEY: Foreigners come in you are going to

09:39:25 have more and more diverse religion, you know,

09:39:29 religious background.

09:39:30 So it's not the only one.

09:39:34 The other thing I don't understand is why you feel so

09:39:37 insecure in your religion that you have to get a public

09:39:40 display of support before you can conduct your meeting.

09:39:47 That blows my mind.

09:39:49 You might say, to paraphrase a recent political ad, I'm

09:39:54 probably not one of you, I'm one of them.

09:39:57 Who is them?

09:39:59 Someone to be ignored, an outsider.

09:40:04 I don't like being one of "them."

09:40:07 I like to be one of us.

09:40:09 And you can't do that if you continue to support only a




09:40:13 religious community with your prayer.

09:40:17 You are reinforcing the concept of the majority is in

09:40:20 control and everybody else should conform.

09:40:24 So I really would like to have you reconsider having

09:40:29 prayer before City Council.

09:40:32 And you don't need them at all.

09:40:35 I have been to a meeting one day, an afternoon meeting,

09:40:40 with regular business, and the meeting went just fine.

09:40:45 It didn't need a prayer.

09:40:46 It's only to give you personal support, for some

09:40:49 reason, I don't know why.

09:40:51 If you are so Christian, I suggest that you follow your

09:40:53 own Bible which says pray in your own closet, for if

09:40:57 you do it in public, you have already received your

09:41:00 reward.

09:41:01 Thank you.

09:41:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.

09:41:04 >> Good morning.

09:41:08 Robert Perry, Executive Director, atheists of Florida,

09:41:12 3614 south Manhattan Avenue here in Tampa.

09:41:16 And a lovely day out side.

09:41:18 It's beautiful.




09:41:19 Enjoyed the spring.

09:41:21 Hope you all do, too.

09:41:22 I want to express out by expressing my thanks to this

09:41:25 council.

09:41:25 You have been very patient listening to us and we

09:41:27 appreciate that.

09:41:28 Two weeks ago, councilman Scott, Chairman Scott, you

09:41:31 welcomed atheists saying you recognize we have the same

09:41:35 free speech rights as all American citizens, as all

09:41:38 residents of Tampa, people who live, work, do business

09:41:41 in Tampa, and I appreciate that, and I want to

09:41:44 acknowledge it.

09:41:45 Because in this entire experience, it's easy to get

09:41:47 lost and mixed up and seeing the little things, like

09:41:54 Mr. Miranda said two weeks ago, don't want to get

09:41:57 involved in some game.

09:41:59 Of course not.

09:42:00 And I want to emphasize this is not a game.

09:42:04 Two weeks ago, after the City Council meeting, I was

09:42:07 contacted by a woman just out side Tampa who said that

09:42:10 she was given 30 days notice to get out of where she

09:42:14 lived.




09:42:14 She rents a room with someone.

09:42:16 The reason?

09:42:18 Her landlord said I cannot stand to rent to a

09:42:22 non-christian.

09:42:24 There are reasons people want to keep their religious

09:42:26 views private.

09:42:28 There are very important reasons.

09:42:30 And people should have the right to keep their

09:42:32 religious views private.

09:42:33 I'll share with you a personal fact.

09:42:35 I don't even know my grandmother's religion.

09:42:37 It doesn't come up in conversation.

09:42:39 And that's okay.

09:42:40 It's not an issue.

09:42:42 We have more important family connection.

09:42:45 And I think there are a lot of people in this town, in

09:42:48 this city, who don't want to push their religion on

09:42:52 others.

09:42:52 They don't wants to push their non-religion.

09:42:55 And it doesn't have to be confrontational.

09:43:00 And certainly atheists of Florida don't want to

09:43:02 treat -- we are for atheists, yes, because there must




09:43:05 be a voice for atheists.

09:43:07 If we don't speak up for our rights, no one else will.

09:43:10 No one else has.

09:43:11 We have to.

09:43:12 But because we are for atheists doesn't mean we are

09:43:15 against anyone.

09:43:15 Now, I do want to point out that it's important to be

09:43:19 mention, this is not a temporary issue.

09:43:23 We are here to stay.

09:43:24 We have been silent for a long time but that's

09:43:26 changing.

09:43:27 It's not just we are speaking here at Tampa City

09:43:30 Council.

09:43:30 We are speaking to other City Commission meetings,

09:43:33 county commission meetings, but we will be active in

09:43:35 political campaigns.

09:43:36 I know several of you are running foyer office.

09:43:38 And I want you to talk to your advisors and let them

09:43:40 know, now that this is an issue, how should we address

09:43:44 it?

09:43:45 What side are we going to take the side of fairness and

09:43:48 justice and equality for all?




09:43:50 Or are we going to take the side, well, it's a

09:43:53 tradition.

09:43:54 I was reading some newspaper articles about the

09:43:56 Montgomery bus boycott back in the 60s.

09:44:01 And a lot of people said, this is a tradition.

09:44:04 Change is scary.

09:44:05 It can be.

09:44:06 But we are not here because it's a game.

09:44:09 We are not here because we just want to be troublesome.

09:44:12 We are here because there are people who have real-life

09:44:17 repercussions to the prejudice stereotypes and

09:44:19 discrimination that many atheists face in their day to

09:44:22 day lives.

09:44:24 So we just want to bring that to your attention.

09:44:26 And also just to let the council know, there's a

09:44:30 statewide meeting at the end of April in Sarasota which

09:44:33 is bringing together atheists, humanists, and free

09:44:37 thought leaders around areas round the state including

09:44:39 the national coalition of America.

09:44:41 Sarasota.

09:44:42 Thank you.

09:44:42 (Bell sounds)




09:44:49 >> Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

09:44:51 My name is Moses Knott, Jr.

09:44:53 I reside at 2902 -- 89 Mr. Knott, we missed you.

09:44:59 Where have you been?

09:45:00 >> Ms. Miller --

09:45:07 >>GWEN MILLER: You can tell me privately.

09:45:08 >> No, you asked me where I been.

09:45:14 I need time to tell you.

09:45:15 My heart went bad and they put me on the generator, for

09:45:19 the last ten years, and the last five years, so now put

09:45:24 a new generator in.

09:45:28 Start all over.

09:45:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Everybody has been asking about you.

09:45:37 First time it's been put to the test today.

09:45:42 [ Laughter ]

09:45:44 Okay.

09:45:45 >>GWEN MILLER: You go ahead.

09:45:46 >> You know, I just thank God for his grace and his

09:45:50 mercy.

09:45:51 And then I thank God for the atheist peoples.

09:45:54 You know, I sit home at 12:00 every night and I sit

09:45:58 there and I sit there three or four times, and




09:46:02 something hit me.

09:46:08 You heard me say this man.

09:46:12 We got millions of atheist peoples.

09:46:15 Atheist peoples don't believe in God and some of them

09:46:18 are good peoples.

09:46:19 I went a long time, had no money in my pocket, I didn't

09:46:26 need God.

09:46:26 But when I got sick, you hear me three or four times

09:46:29 like right now, I just had another generator put in.

09:46:32 I could have died.

09:46:33 I could have died three times, and God put me back here

09:46:38 this morning.

09:46:38 But to say awhile ago that atheists everywhere.

09:46:46 You know, I been asked to pray three times out of my 30

09:46:51 years of coming here and I refused.

09:46:53 I refused.

09:46:55 And why I refused?

09:46:56 Because this piece of paper here.

09:47:02 But back to word of God this morning, atheists

09:47:06 everywhere.

09:47:06 But let me tell you why I thank God for these atheists.

09:47:13 Our poor peoples you talk about this morning, they




09:47:18 aren't welcome oh to come here and speak, taxpayers,

09:47:21 poor peoples, they cut the TV off, people have parking

09:47:27 tickets by the thousands come down here to speak, and

09:47:31 you know they cut the TV off.

09:47:37 For years couldn't come here but the atheists change.

09:47:41 And I want all of the citizens in this town, come to

09:47:45 town and file your complaint.

09:47:46 They are welcome to come here now.

09:47:49 Thank God for the atheists.

09:47:51 Thank God for you all.

09:47:54 And the devils walk around here, walking around with

09:48:00 chains.

09:48:01 They are all over the place.

09:48:03 The evil in this place.

09:48:04 I mean, I see people lose everything they got.

09:48:11 People like me, you know.

09:48:13 Where I live, ten foot from my house.

09:48:17 That is my house.

09:48:18 And I talk with the gentleman and told me sue us.

09:48:25 The poor person can't.

09:48:27 But got to come from north Tampa to all the way and

09:48:31 pass out some rich people's houses and they going to




09:48:35 get sued.

09:48:35 And I want to get my part of it for what they did to

09:48:39 me.

09:48:42 The man come to my house, took a picture, "sue us."

09:48:48 And I told him poor people can't sue -- like my friend,

09:48:54 he sued the hell out of the city.

09:48:56 Can't talk about it no more.

09:49:00 That six-foot lap dancing thing, he showed you all

09:49:03 something.

09:49:05 Brought a convention here.

09:49:08 The Joe Redner place.

09:49:09 (Bell sounds)

09:49:12 >> We missed you, Mr. Knott.

09:49:19 >> My name is Clarence Townes, and I live at

09:49:25 homesteaded property at 2706 North 33rd street in

09:49:31 Tampa, Florida.

09:49:32 My topic today will be power corrupts.

09:49:35 Number one, the State of Florida has the law that makes

09:49:38 it a felony to trespass on a construction site.

09:49:42 2706 North 33rd street is such a place.

09:49:48 A construction site.

09:49:50 Number two, in the U.S. Constitution no one's land can




09:49:52 be taken over and that person forced to leave their

09:49:55 property.

09:49:55 That's called unlawful seizure.

09:49:58 Number three, a person shouldn't be threatened with

09:50:01 arrest because they report unlawful activity by people

09:50:06 saying that they are police.

09:50:08 Case in point.

09:50:10 On Tuesday, March 30th, that was just a couple of

09:50:13 days ago, 2010, at approximately 5:30 p.m., a black

09:50:18 Ford pickup truck with dark tinted windows had driven

09:50:22 about 16 feet onto the homesteaded construction site

09:50:30 and was parked on the north side of the storage shed

09:50:33 that I am building.

09:50:35 I approached the truck on the passenger side, and the

09:50:38 person rolled down the window about five inches, and I

09:50:42 asked what did they want?

09:50:44 And the driver said they were policemen and was doing

09:50:47 surveillance.

09:50:49 I asked them to leave the property.

09:50:51 They refused and ordered me away from the vehicle they

09:50:54 were in and off that portion of the homesteaded

09:50:58 property which is 49 feet by 103 feet.




09:51:01 That's right.

09:51:02 Ordered me to leave my own property.

09:51:05 That's unlawful seizure.

09:51:07 I went into the house, I and Gloria residents of the

09:51:12 property also called 911.

09:51:15 After what seemed like an eternity, they finally left.

09:51:19 Then one of them called me at 5:54 p.m. from

09:51:24 813-310-8758, and he told me if I ever called 911 on

09:51:34 him again, I will be arrested.

09:51:37 Mind you that after they had already committed a felony

09:51:42 for trespass and a civil rights violation ordering me

09:51:45 off my property unlawful seizure.

09:51:49 And now I'm being threatened with arrest for reporting

09:51:52 unlawful activity by people saying they are policemen.

09:51:58 Oh, by the way, they did get their guy, or should I

09:52:02 say, a car, a '96 or '97 Nissan Maxima with 20-inch

09:52:10 rims, could have been 22, 24s, from 2703 north

09:52:14 33rd street.

09:52:16 They were towed away by supreme towing and the driver

09:52:19 of the car left walking.

09:52:21 That was about ten-something that evening.

09:52:24 So what's up with that?




09:52:25 The police break laws in order to repossess a car for

09:52:28 someone?

09:52:29 I don't think, but I know the action of these so-called

09:52:33 officers should be looked into.

09:52:35 The number again, I got that arrest threat from is area

09:52:38 code 813-310-8758.

09:52:45 Man, your police force is out of control.

09:52:47 Oh, yes, I called a 911 and I had the right to.

09:52:55 Two guys --

09:52:56 (Bell sounds).

09:52:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.

09:52:58 Let me suggest to you that because we have a process, I

09:53:00 recommend that you meet with the city attorney, and he

09:53:05 can advise you as to the process to address that

09:53:08 concern relative to law enforcement.

09:53:10 Okay?

09:53:11 Thank you.

09:53:14 Next speaker.

09:53:14 >> Gerald White, Hillsborough County community

09:53:22 activist.

09:53:24 First, I am a Christian, and I stand here before the

09:53:26 people of the City of Tampa and rebuke the devil and




09:53:30 all of its wicked ways.

09:53:32 This is a Christian community.

09:53:34 We rely on prayer.

09:53:36 We think God has blessed the City of Tampa,

09:53:40 Hillsborough County, and it's really disappointing,

09:53:45 here we are getting ready to celebrate Good Friday,

09:53:48 this holy period in America, that these folks will come

09:53:52 up here and call for change in something that has

09:53:56 served the City of Tampa so well.

09:53:58 And that is prayer.

09:53:59 And so if I had to say anything before Good Friday is

09:54:03 that the government, the City of Tampa, should continue

09:54:06 prayer, continue to look to God for blessing and for

09:54:11 hope, and for positive change in the City of Tampa.

09:54:14 And so, as a registered voter here in this community,

09:54:20 stay the course.

09:54:21 Don't be moved by people that come from outside of the

09:54:24 City of Tampa, outside of Hillsborough County, outside

09:54:28 of the State of Florida, requesting unnecessary,

09:54:33 unjustified change for the people of the City of Tampa.

09:54:37 And I also come this morning just to say thank you to

09:54:40 this council for the work that you do in this very




09:54:44 difficult time.

09:54:45 I watch your meetings.

09:54:46 I watch your proceedings, your workshops, and something

09:54:49 just told me just to come down here just to thank you,

09:54:53 and to continue to work hard, work with the mayor in

09:54:56 these tough economic times, and try to find solutions.

09:55:00 I know some of you all are contemplating higher office,

09:55:05 but we need your service now.

09:55:07 Do all that you can before the next administration

09:55:10 comes next year to make and keep our city strong.

09:55:12 We need you desperately.

09:55:15 It's very important that we maintain as much -- as many

09:55:21 qualified people to keep our city whole and keep us

09:55:25 moving forward.

09:55:26 I just thank you for what you do, and just keep it up,

09:55:29 and be strong.

09:55:31 And I saw in the paper that the people that were lining

09:55:33 up for jobs in Central Park, I came before this council

09:55:37 last year and requested that this council, this sitting

09:55:39 council today, do something related to Central Park

09:55:42 before your term ends.

09:55:44 And you have.




09:55:44 You have done it.

09:55:46 Development is taking place.

09:55:47 People are being hired.

09:55:49 Thank you for that.

09:55:50 That is a remarkable accomplishment.

09:55:53 And the Tampa City Council, the mayor of the city, and

09:55:55 the Housing Authority is to be commended for getting

09:55:58 the job done, working with the state, working with the

09:56:01 county, working with the federal government to bring

09:56:03 money to our community.

09:56:05 And so you guys are on course.

09:56:09 You are making it happen.

09:56:10 You are doing it the right way.

09:56:12 You have been inclusive.

09:56:13 You are being open.

09:56:15 And you are keeping this community moving forward.

09:56:17 And so my message this morning to this government is

09:56:21 thank you for what you do, and don't turn away.

09:56:24 Keep striving to do better and better and better for

09:56:28 the people of the City of Tampa.

09:56:29 God bless you.

09:56:31 Happy Good Friday.




09:56:32 And keep the faith.

09:56:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Mr. White.

09:56:36 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. White, I have known you about

09:56:39 15 years, or maybe a little longer.

09:56:41 I want to thank you for everything that you do for the

09:56:44 community, because you do a lot.

09:56:46 And your opinion is very much appreciated.

09:56:49 >> Thank you, council.

09:56:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

09:56:54 We will now ask for any reconsideration of a

09:56:57 legislative matter.

09:56:58 Anyone who wishes to address council on a

09:57:00 reconsideration of a legislative matter.

09:57:03 Okay, then we'll move to our committee reports.

09:57:06 Councilwoman Gwen Miller, public safety.

09:57:08 >>GWEN MILLER: I move items 3, 4 and 5.

09:57:11 >> Second.

09:57:13 >> Seconded.

09:57:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.

09:57:17 Councilwoman Saul-Sena, Councilwoman Mulhern,

09:57:22 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.

09:57:24 Parks and recreation.




09:57:25 I want to highlight item 7.

09:57:27 Item 7, I want to say to council is $2.5 million to be

09:57:31 used for the Spring Hill park community center in

09:57:34 Sulphur Springs.

09:57:36 And they are a deserving center, very deserving

09:57:39 project, and it will be approved today by City Council,

09:57:46 look forward to that.

09:57:48 2.5 million.

09:57:49 >>MARY MULHERN: I move items 6 through 13.

09:57:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.

09:57:58 All in favor say Aye.

09:57:59 Public Works Committee, pulling item 19 and 24.

09:58:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move 14 through 18.

09:58:10 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.

09:58:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Moved and seconded.

09:58:17 All in favor?

09:58:19 Opposes?

09:58:21 Finance Committee.

09:58:21 Councilwoman Mulhern.

09:58:23 Pulling 19 and 24.

09:58:25 >>MARY MULHERN: I move items 20 through 23 and 257

09:58:30 through 27.




09:58:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.

09:58:39 All in favor?

09:58:39 Opposes?

09:58:40 Okay.

09:58:41 Building and zoning.

09:58:42 Councilman Caetano.

09:58:43 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like to pull items --

09:58:47 approve items 28 through 37.

09:58:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I would like to highlight 31.

09:58:56 Item 31 we are moving approval today of the

09:58:59 registration of the foreclosed or vacant properties in

09:59:03 the City of Tampa.

09:59:05 That would be, as you know, administration moved

09:59:07 forward, $125 fee per year annually.

09:59:12 And so I want to highlight that we move forward with

09:59:14 that item.

09:59:16 And then item 35.

09:59:19 Item 35 is the stimulus program, the neighborhood

09:59:25 stabilization program, where $10 million is going to be

09:59:28 allocated for East Tampa.

09:59:31 $10 million allocated for East Tampa and the boundaries

09:59:34 are north of the Dr. MLK Boulevard, south Adamo Drive,




09:59:40 west, Florida Avenue, east, city limits.

09:59:44 And that is $10 million earmarked for East Tampa for

09:59:47 the neighborhood stabilization program.

09:59:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can I ask a question on that?

09:59:51 It says it's foreclosed, to help foreclosures, to

09:59:56 mitigate foreclosures.

09:59:57 And the question is, we will be administering that, I

10:00:01 assume, under Mrs. Miller's department.

10:00:04 And I just wonder, we haven't had such a fabulous track

10:00:09 record in terms of some of the other federal moneys we

10:00:11 have gotten.

10:00:13 I would assume that this is going to be between the

10:00:15 property owners or banks, and we will be providing

10:00:19 funding as a stop gap measure so they are able to stay

10:00:22 in their houses and maybe renegotiate.

10:00:24 I just would like to hear back after we receive this

10:00:27 and after the program gets going on maybe an

10:00:32 every-three-month basis how it's going, because I feel

10:00:36 like the public is really interested in knowing.

10:00:38 And we are thrilled to be getting this money.

10:00:40 We want to be sure it's being used in a timely way.

10:00:43 So perhaps my motion would be after we get through this




10:00:46 to vice-president a staff report, appear and provide a

10:00:50 staff report.

10:00:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Just one correction.

10:00:54 I think the article that was put in the paper on the

10:00:56 stabilization program was not accurate.

10:00:58 You recall Mrs. Miller came forth and gave us some

10:01:01 updated numbers relative to that.

10:01:03 I just want to let counsel know that -- council know

10:01:09 that was done a couple months ago.

10:01:11 Did we get a second?

10:01:13 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.

10:01:15 Linda, are you going to make that motion after?

10:01:18 >> Moved and seconded.

10:01:19 All in favor say Aye.

10:01:21 Opposed?

10:01:22 Okay, Councilwoman.

10:01:23 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to say what might be

10:01:26 helpful in that staff report, add this, is if we could

10:01:31 get a report on what the requirements are for spend,

10:01:36 allocating and spending that money, and if we are going

10:01:39 to be meeting the deadline, and if we don't, what the

10:01:41 problems are.




10:01:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My motion would be to get a staff

10:01:46 report in 90 days for the staff to appear and provide a

10:01:49 rundown on how we are doing in using the $10 million

10:01:54 under the neighborhood stabilization program for

10:01:58 foreclosure mitigation, and what the guidelines are and

10:02:00 how we are doing.

10:02:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If I may add to that it's not he is

10:02:06 you just to say one thing.

10:02:07 But whatever is vacant, let's not say that you think

10:02:12 the city is going to take them over, and all of them,

10:02:15 because there's a continuous movement forwards and

10:02:18 backwards on people leaving and people coming in that

10:02:22 are trying to increase their portfolio, and they are in

10:02:28 competition.

10:02:29 What you might want to buy today has already been sold

10:02:33 yesterday, because there's this REBC, whatever, these

10:02:39 auctions, and there's auctions going on all the time.

10:02:42 By the time the city gets there.

10:02:43 They may not be what's left for them to buy.

10:02:46 So maybe that could be in the report.

10:02:49 How many they wanted to buy and how many they could buy

10:02:50 because they were gone.




10:02:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I know in working with the county

10:02:56 advisory board on this program that a lot of times the

10:03:02 private investors, that's what you are talking about.

10:03:09 There's a process you have with government, where

10:03:11 private investors are able to move much faster, and

10:03:14 they kind of take it pretty fast, pretty quickly.

10:03:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My understanding is this is to keep

10:03:21 the people who currently have mortgages that aren't

10:03:23 able to provide to provide some relief so they are able

10:03:26 to stay in their homes and work out some other kind of

10:03:29 pavement schedule.

10:03:30 We'll find out when we get the report back.

10:03:32 >>MARY MULHERN: I thought that's what it was, too.

10:03:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I don't think it's like that.

10:03:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Ninety days.

10:03:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can we start in 30 days and go over

10:03:42 90 days after that?

10:03:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: All right, I amend my motion to say

10:03:46 30 days.

10:03:48 And also that helps get the word out to the public that

10:03:50 this program is being initiated.

10:03:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: This would apply to the first as




10:03:59 well as this one?

10:04:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.

10:04:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

10:04:02 All in favor?

10:04:03 Opposes?

10:04:04 Okay.

10:04:04 Transportation.

10:04:04 Councilman Dingfelder.

10:04:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ms. Mulhern pulled 39 and 40.

10:04:13 We'll discuss that later.

10:04:15 38, 41, 42, and 43.

10:04:18 >> Second.

10:04:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

10:04:23 All in favor?

10:04:25 Opposes?

10:04:26 Okay.

10:04:26 Now --

10:04:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We appreciate the city's

10:04:32 contribution on item 41.

10:04:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

10:04:37 Then we will now take up the 9:30 items.

10:04:40 I think that completed all our committee reports.




10:04:45 Except the items that are pulled.

10:04:47 They will come up under staff reports.

10:04:49 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I wasn't sure whether councilman

10:04:54 Dingfelder wants just a separate vote on a particular

10:04:56 item.

10:04:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: One item was item 7.

10:04:58 I know you wanted a separate vote.

10:05:01 He was not here at that time.

10:05:02 Item 7.

10:05:03 What about 19?

10:05:04 You pulled 19.

10:05:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I apologize for not being here on 7.

10:05:09 Let me say what I was going to say on 7, even though my

10:05:12 vote I guess would be signified by being absent.

10:05:17 But it's a wonderful thing that we are building this

10:05:20 rec center, 2.5 million.

10:05:24 We saved up for many years to build it and I think it's

10:05:26 fantastic.

10:05:27 The only thing I'm a little disappointed about is that

10:05:31 in our green ordinance we passed two years ago, the

10:05:36 intent of the green ordinance, one of the intents was

10:05:39 we were following the federal and the state government




10:05:42 which basically said from now on we are going to build

10:05:48 LEED silver buildings, and somehow or another, I guess

10:05:54 when we passed it, the ordinance ultimately said LEED

10:05:57 silver or equivalent.

10:05:58 And in this case, they opted to go for the equivalent.

10:06:02 And I didn't make a big stink about it, because I think

10:06:07 it's more important that we build this building.

10:06:09 But I think that even the mayor's task force on energy,

10:06:13 one of their recommendations was that the city build

10:06:17 LEED silver buildings.

10:06:18 So when we do have these big investments, we build them

10:06:21 in an energy efficient way, and we actually get it

10:06:24 certified by an independent body.

10:06:26 So I'm just standing here on my little soap box today,

10:06:31 and I would like for us in the future to address this

10:06:34 issue, to build -- that we need to stand by what we

10:06:39 said two years ago, we need to build buildings that are

10:06:43 legitimate green buildings, and are certified as LEED

10:06:48 silver, and I just hope we try to do a better job in

10:06:52 the future.

10:06:52 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm hoping that this is going to be

10:06:57 LEED certified silver or gold, because I was at the




10:07:01 task force report to the mayor last week and the mayor

10:07:06 herself said, when she was told about a new fire

10:07:12 station in St. Pete that was going to be LEED

10:07:14 certified, she said, well, all of our new buildings are

10:07:17 going to be LEED certified.

10:07:21 And we have a new fire station being built wilt will be

10:07:24 LEED certified.

10:07:25 She didn't mention this particular building, but she

10:07:28 was clear about that, and I'm glad you brought this up

10:07:32 because I was wondering, that was my question, which I

10:07:34 wasn't able to ask at that meeting.

10:07:36 But whether that was part of our -- so our green

10:07:40 ordinance actually says LEED certified or equivalent,

10:07:43 and maybe that's something that we should change in the

10:07:46 ordinance, so it actually is LEED certified.

10:07:59 I'll support that.

10:08:01 Maybe staff is going to come over to talk about the two

10:08:03 items I pulled so they can let us know if this is going

10:08:07 to be LEED certified.

10:08:08 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: There was a town hall meeting

10:08:11 last night, green elementary school, and Chief Jones

10:08:17 introduced station number 22, which is LEED certified,




10:08:21 fully.

10:08:21 So it will go under construction within a few months.

10:08:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, I think we need to get

10:08:29 clarification from Mr. Vaughan, because Mr. Daignault

10:08:31 and I have had a bunch of conversations on this issue,

10:08:35 and I think the city staff's position is we can save a

10:08:37 little bit of money and take this generic or equivalent

10:08:43 position as opposed to actually getting LEED certified.

10:08:46 If these buildings were going to be LEED certified,

10:08:49 then we would be having a ceremony and a little plaque,

10:08:52 and people from the green building council coming in to

10:08:54 give us our little plaque that says that we have

10:08:57 evaluated these buildings and they are LEED certified.

10:09:00 That's not -- I don't think that's in the plans.

10:09:02 But, anyway, I just wanted to bring it up.

10:09:05 We are going to move forward.

10:09:06 We are going to build that rec center.

10:09:08 It's going to be a wonderful thing.

10:09:09 But I think we can do better.

10:09:11 The other item I wanted to mention, what was it,

10:09:14 Mr. Chairman, that I pulled?

10:09:16 19?




10:09:17 If we vote on that?

10:09:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You wanted to pull those items to have

10:09:26 staff come over under staff report.

10:09:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And on 19 I just wanted a separate

10:09:32 vote, if somebody wants to move it as an item.

10:09:34 That's the Montanaro settlement agreement.

10:09:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: What is the Montanaro?

10:09:56 Was it us, was it mistake or stupidity?

10:10:01 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I tried to get with each member on

10:10:04 this one, and I was not able to get with Mr. Miranda or

10:10:08 Mr. Dingfelder.

10:10:10 This goes back, I believe, initiated in 2001.

10:10:15 It was a zoning administrator decision, and the 2002

10:10:22 time frame, was appealed and went to council in 2003.

10:10:25 It's a lot division where our staff and council through

10:10:33 that process denied the lot division.

10:10:37 There was a writ of cert which was granted by state

10:10:45 circuit court in order to subdivision back in that time

10:10:47 frame in the 2003 time frame, and then subsequently

10:10:53 there was action for damages under section 1983 of

10:10:56 federal code.

10:11:00 In the fall there was a jury verdict against the city




10:11:05 in that case awarding actual damages and interests.

10:11:08 What is before you is the settlement that would resolve

10:11:10 that case including attorneys' fees, which under

10:11:14 section 1983 they have a right to.

10:11:20 This settlement would pay those fees at an amount that

10:11:24 is significantly less than what they filed the request

10:11:27 for in court.

10:11:29 We could go forward and litigate the attorney's fees,

10:11:33 but considering the discount that we were offered, we

10:11:35 thought it was prudent to bring that to council for

10:11:37 council's consideration.

10:11:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: What department did this?

10:11:42 I mean, somebody overstepped their bounds, I guess, but

10:11:48 we got sued?

10:11:51 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: It was a zoning administrator

10:11:53 decision on the lot division, and we could go through

10:11:55 kind of the -- point to where mistakes were made.

10:11:59 There were a number of items that the plaintiff's

10:12:01 attorney pointed to in their closing argument.

10:12:05 One of the items before you also today is a change in

10:12:08 how we handle the zoning administrator processes where

10:12:13 those determinations would be more formal, there would




10:12:15 be a written order, there would be an opportunity to go

10:12:17 to a hearing officer.

10:12:20 That helps mitigate these issues because part of what

10:12:22 happened here is there was not a formal order rendered.

10:12:27 The way it was written did not provide us with a good

10:12:29 opportunity to defend it.

10:12:32 And frankly the allegation by the plaintiffs was that

10:12:35 we treated these folks differently due to community

10:12:38 pressure, and that was a key piece of their claim.

10:12:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So what did council do in this

10:12:48 process?

10:12:49 You made some statements there about we did something

10:12:51 to community pressure so that means it was us.

10:12:56 With me you don't have to hide anything.

10:12:57 Just tell me.

10:12:58 Tell me if I made a stupid mistake.

10:13:00 Tell me.

10:13:01 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: In this instance, I don't know

10:13:05 that that happened because there was the same decision

10:13:09 rendered by the zoning administrator, the Variance

10:13:11 Review Board and City Council.

10:13:13 They all consistently denied it.




10:13:16 So I can't tell you that there was an action like that

10:13:20 at council.

10:13:22 I don't know that.

10:13:24 But certainly --

10:13:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Fletcher, what did the courts

10:13:28 determine?

10:13:29 The courts said that this board erred, so there had

10:13:34 to -- erred.

10:13:38 They had to have a finding by this case.

10:13:40 >> In this instance it's a jury verdict so there is not

10:13:42 a finding on the particular elements.

10:13:44 What was argued was that we used a code provision, and

10:13:48 the zoning administrator, the VRB and City Council, to

10:13:52 deny the lot division which was the only time that it

10:13:55 had been used to deny a lot division.

10:13:59 In addition to that, there was situation can't pressure

10:14:03 from the community, and according to their land use

10:14:06 planning expert, this was the only time this decision

10:14:10 was made, and it was treating differently these folks,

10:14:15 these applicants, and her view based on community

10:14:21 pressure.

10:14:21 So that was the scenario that we believe the jury




10:14:25 accepted, without a written order it's somewhat

10:14:29 difficult to get into the minds of the jury but that

10:14:32 was the argument accepted by the jury.

10:14:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If you could tell me when that

10:14:36 happened.

10:14:36 I want to look at that file, how I voted, how others

10:14:40 voted.

10:14:40 I just want to review it for my own satisfaction.

10:14:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I wasn't here.

10:14:48 >>MARY MULHERN: I wasn't here either but I did get a

10:14:52 good briefing on this but Mr. Miranda raises a question

10:14:55 that I think he can answer.

10:14:56 What was that specific code provision?

10:15:00 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I don't have the citation.

10:15:02 But what it is, it disfavors unusual-shaped lots.

10:15:08 So it is as well somewhat unclear as to exactly what

10:15:12 that means.

10:15:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder, Miller,

10:15:18 Saul-Sena.

10:15:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I remember the case well.

10:15:24 Council, at the end of the day, was supporting staff's

10:15:27 recommendation.




10:15:27 We were supporting the neighborhood's testimony.

10:15:31 It wasn't just neighborhood pressure.

10:15:32 It wasn't like it was back room deals with the

10:15:35 neighborhood.

10:15:36 It was the neighbors standing at that very podium

10:15:40 giving us their opinions about compatible or

10:15:42 incompatible and consistent and inconsistent

10:15:45 development immediately adjacent on the residential

10:15:47 street.

10:15:49 You know, there is nothing sneaky about it.

10:15:53 Unfortunately, the judge and the jury eventually didn't

10:15:55 see it that way.

10:15:56 And that's fine.

10:15:57 That's our system.

10:15:58 Okay.

10:15:59 I just want to remind council that we shouldn't

10:16:01 overreact to this sort of thing.

10:16:05 And maybe it's a mistake that I even pulled this item

10:16:07 for discussion.

10:16:08 But that's okay.

10:16:09 We can air it out.

10:16:10 But I don't want us to overreact to this.




10:16:13 We made, over this period of time in the 06 context,

10:16:19 were making hundreds and hundreds of zoning decisions a

10:16:22 year, and this is one of the first that I can recall

10:16:26 that actually got bounced.

10:16:28 And at the end of the day, the judge and the jury said

10:16:32 that they didn't agree with us, and that's fine.

10:16:34 That's our system.

10:16:35 But I don't want us to overreact and be fearful of

10:16:40 making good decisions that support our neighborhoods,

10:16:44 that support our staff recommendations, and that sort

10:16:47 of thing.

10:16:47 And when attorneys -- and the reason I say that,

10:16:53 attorneys will stand at that podium, and they will put

10:16:55 their court reporters over there and type away, and the

10:16:59 threat is we might get sued, we might get sued.

10:17:02 Okay, we might get sued.

10:17:04 And on occasion we might lose.

10:17:07 But at the end of the day we are here because we have

10:17:09 to make the best judgments for our community, and I

10:17:11 think we do a great job at it, and I think we should

10:17:14 continue to do that, and especially in support of our

10:17:17 neighborhoods.




10:17:19 That's all.

10:17:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Hear-hear.

10:17:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to say I'm not afraid

10:17:27 attorneys.

10:17:27 I'm not afraid of court reporters.

10:17:29 I'm not afraid of anyone, period.

10:17:32 What I'm afraid of is that I make a mistake.

10:17:35 That is very hard for me to live with.

10:17:37 So I don't look at 20 people versus one.

10:17:41 I look at -- and I have said this before.

10:17:44 I can name you many cases right now where I said we are

10:17:47 heading in the wrong direction.

10:17:49 You can't tell somebody to put a sidewalk or land that

10:17:53 they own because you want it that way.

10:17:55 And we have done that many times.

10:17:58 I can tell you right now, on one case there was a big

10:18:01 plot of land an it and it was by wetlands, and we

10:18:05 forced them to say we'll put the sidewalk on our

10:18:08 property, because you can't put it on the wetlands.

10:18:11 That's wrong.

10:18:11 And I stated that night, to put it wherever you want.

10:18:16 And if I own the property and put a chain link fence




10:18:19 around it so you aren't going to Pell tell me what I do

10:18:22 with my property.

10:18:23 I believe in the right of people.

10:18:25 But I also believe there's got to be a balance between

10:18:27 what I want and what reality is.

10:18:31 Thank you.

10:18:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a motion for item 19?

10:18:35 >> So moved.

10:18:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Chairman, I'll support the

10:18:38 item.

10:18:38 I just wanted to say one more thing.

10:18:40 And I won't belabor.

10:18:44 They called me as a witness, the other side in this

10:18:46 case, and I sat there and testified in this case in

10:18:50 front of the judge to try to explain what council's

10:18:52 position was that day.

10:18:53 And when I did that, it reinforced the fact that I

10:18:56 think we made the right decision.

10:18:58 You know, but sometimes it doesn't work out that way.

10:19:01 And as Chip indicated, Mr. Fletcher indicated, there

10:19:04 were some procedural glitches that we are now fixing,

10:19:08 you know, as a city to make our administrator decisions




10:19:13 stronger and more defensible and to help us as we go

10:19:16 through those processes.

10:19:17 So maybe if this came along in that posture at a future

10:19:21 date we might not have lost.

10:19:23 But we are not perfect.

10:19:24 By no means.

10:19:25 We make mistakes sometimes, and we'll look back 10, 20

10:19:28 years from now and we'll see situations and cases where

10:19:30 we erred.

10:19:32 In this case it don't think we erred but we do have to

10:19:35 pay this settlement because the judge and the jury says

10:19:40 we do.

10:19:41 I'll move it.

10:19:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

10:19:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

10:19:45 All in favor say Aye.

10:19:46 Opposes?

10:19:48 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda voting no and

10:19:50 Caetano being absent.

10:19:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Then we'll move to item 44.

10:19:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 24 was pulled for discussion.

10:19:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Under staff report, right?




10:20:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to do it.

10:20:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think all items come up under staff

10:20:05 report.

10:20:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 24, I wanted a quick explanation.

10:20:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's move to the item and then go back

10:20:12 to it under staff report.

10:20:13 All pulled items generally come up under staff report.

10:20:16 Or do you just want a separate vote on it?

10:20:19 >>> Item 44?

10:20:30 Julia Cole, legal department.

10:20:31 I am very excited to present to you item 44 which is

10:20:34 change to our zoning administrator process and our

10:20:36 review process, in order to assist in some of these

10:20:40 procedural questions.

10:20:41 I did change the order to change the date to June

10:20:44 1st.

10:20:45 This will go into effect in order to give staff and the

10:20:47 clerk's office time to make the necessary changes,

10:20:49 forms, et cetera.

10:20:50 I will be coming forward with a new resolution in the

10:20:54 future to deal with the costs associated.

10:20:57 We need to put in the new.




10:21:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?

10:21:06 Opposes?

10:21:06 That concludes all of the 9:30 public hearing items.

10:21:21 Item 44.

10:21:22 We need to read that, right?

10:21:25 Does anyone in the public wish to address council on

10:21:27 item 44?

10:21:28 Anyone from the public?

10:21:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to close.

10:21:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

10:21:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor say Aye.

10:21:34 Councilman Dingfelder.

10:21:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: As a matter of personal privy want

10:21:38 to introduce my brilliant nephew sitting in the front

10:21:41 row there.

10:21:43 He's Daniel, my brother's son.

10:21:45 And he's visiting us from Philadelphia.

10:21:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Welcome.

10:21:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move item 44.

10:21:55 An ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida making

10:21:58 comprehensive revisions to the City of Tampa code of

10:22:00 ordinances chapter 27, zoning, repealing article 15,




10:22:05 administration, creating article 15, administration,

10:22:08 repealing all ordinances or parts of ordinances in

10:22:10 conflict therewith, providing for severability,

10:22:12 providing an effective date.

10:22:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

10:22:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

10:22:18 Record your vote.

10:22:26 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Caetano being absent.

10:22:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I just thank Ms. Julia Cole and the

10:22:36 city attorney's office for doing excellent work in

10:22:38 making this first step happen.

10:22:42 It's a process that I think will help us in the future,

10:22:44 and deal with some of those items that we hopefully

10:22:47 will not have the problem that we had just on the

10:22:52 MONTANARO case.

10:22:52 >>JULIA COLE: If I could take one moment to thank Mr.

10:22:55 Fletcher for making it possible for me to have the

10:22:58 opportunity, and also the entire zoning staff that

10:23:01 specifically helped, and spent a lot of time and

10:23:06 working with city staff, and thank you to council and

10:23:08 the other folks.

10:23:09 This is a tremendous change in our process.




10:23:12 Thank you.

10:23:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think it's a good one and will help

10:23:15 us in the process.

10:23:17 Item 45.

10:23:18 Anyone from the public wish to address council on item

10:23:20 45?

10:23:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.

10:23:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?

10:23:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

10:23:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

10:23:31 Councilwoman Mulhern.

10:23:31 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

10:23:41 I move an ordinance being presented for second reading

10:23:43 and adoption vacating, closing, discontinuing,

10:23:45 abandoning a certain right-of-way all that portion of

10:23:47 alleyway lying south of 38th Avenue north of north

10:23:50 Bay Street, east of 33rd street, and west of north

10:23:53 34th street in ALTAMIRA Heights, a subdivision in

10:23:59 the city of Tampa, Florida the same being more fully

10:24:01 described in section 2 thereof subject to certain

10:24:03 covenants, conditions and restrictions as more

10:24:06 particularly described herein, providing an effective




10:24:07 date.

10:24:07 >> Second.

10:24:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

10:24:11 All in favor, record your vote.

10:24:20 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Caetano being absent.

10:24:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: On item 46, Ms. Miller wanted to speak

10:24:29 on this item and then Councilwoman Saul-Sena.

10:24:33 Anyone from the public wish to address council on item

10:24:36 46?

10:24:37 Item 46.

10:24:37 >>LaCHONE DOCK: Land Development Coordination.

10:24:43 Council, items 46 and 47 require certified site plans.

10:24:48 These plans have been certified by the zoning

10:24:49 administrator and have been provided to the clerk.

10:24:52 I have copies of these plans if you have any questions.

10:24:54 Thank you.

10:24:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me swear the witnesses in on this

10:24:57 as well.

10:24:59 Those that have not been sworn please stand to be sworn

10:25:03 at this time.

10:25:03 (Oath administered by Clerk).

10:25:16 >>GWEN MILLER: On item 46 last time I voted.




10:25:19 We had to think about it, wasn't the right thing to do.

10:25:24 On 22nd street, we had a lot of problems, the police

10:25:27 department really worked hard to make 22nd street a

10:25:29 street that you wanted to drive through, and then we

10:25:32 had such a good area, CRA, talk about redoing 22nd

10:25:41 street.

10:25:41 I drove down there.

10:25:42 And there's a lot of young people out there, and a lot

10:25:44 of people that were out on their porches, and before

10:25:49 they could not go Do this because you wouldn't want to

10:25:52 go down 22nd street because it was so bad.

10:25:54 And I don't want to give the police department another

10:25:58 job to go back to 22nd street and clean it up again, so

10:26:01 I cannot support it.

10:26:03 I will have to vote against it because I want 22nd

10:26:05 street to stay as it is.

10:26:11 Help to get 22nd street so people can walk.

10:26:15 Now when you go, the people are traveling 22nd, it used

10:26:20 to be you wouldn't even go down 22nd street.

10:26:22 They would go other directions.

10:26:24 But I drove down two or three blocks, because everybody

10:26:27 would feel comfortable now driving down there, and I




10:26:30 wanted to stay that way.

10:26:31 I wanted the police department to have another job.

10:26:35 I don't want to have to do that.

10:26:37 So I would vote against it at this time.

10:26:40 I would ask my colleagues to support this to make sure

10:26:43 to keep 22nd street the same way.

10:26:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: May I ask a question, Mrs. Miller?

10:26:51 Would you be supportive of this if it were conditional?

10:26:53 Because that's the trickiness as we have all discussed

10:26:57 in these zonings.

10:26:58 It depends on how they run it and what kind of impact

10:27:01 it has on the neighborhood.

10:27:02 >>GWEN MILLER: I don't think I can do that either,

10:27:05 Mrs. Saul-Sena, because these are nice apartments, and

10:27:09 a lot of young people are there, and we have a school

10:27:12 bus stop that comes to that area.

10:27:15 I hate to see the kids getting off this bus going next

10:27:17 door, and I just can't support it because I said let me

10:27:23 go back down and see if this is going to be a problem,

10:27:27 and I did.

10:27:27 I went two or three times.

10:27:29 And I don't think it would be conducive for that area,




10:27:31 especially when we redo 22nd street, do around about

10:27:36 and all that, and I don't think it's going to be good

10:27:38 for that area.

10:27:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay.

10:27:39 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Councilwoman, for telling

10:27:47 us that, because I wasn't here for the first reading,

10:27:50 but now that I look at the staff report, we have got

10:27:54 three and a half pages of residences within 1,000 feet.

10:27:59 They are asking for a lot of waivers for residences,

10:28:02 and then it looks like also for institutional uses.

10:28:06 So I'm going to trust you.

10:28:11 It's your neighborhood.

10:28:16 And I will vote against this based on the fact that

10:28:18 these are some pretty significant waivers they are

10:28:20 asking for.

10:28:23 And I assume the neighbors probably are not in support

10:28:26 of this.

10:28:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, we'll let the petitioner come

10:28:32 and speak because the way it looks now -- and I am

10:28:34 going to support Mrs. Miller on this.

10:28:38 The petitioner come forward at this time.

10:28:39 Petitioner.




10:28:42 It's already open.

10:29:01 >> I'm going to be the new owner for this, north 22nd

10:29:05 street.

10:29:06 There is three additional stores in the area.

10:29:08 They all have alcohol sales.

10:29:11 There is a large residential area.

10:29:22 They are all in support of the store.

10:29:23 And alcohol sales.

10:29:25 We will not sell alcohol to minors.

10:29:29 It's going to be 21 and over.

10:29:31 ID is required.

10:29:32 It won't affect the kids in any way in the

10:29:36 neighborhood.

10:29:36 And we did get support from the neighborhood and they

10:29:38 are all in support of it.

10:29:40 There is not a local bus route on 22nd street where the

10:29:45 store is located.

10:29:46 Tallahassee approximate bus route inside of the

10:29:48 apartment complex which is over 1,000 feet from the

10:29:52 store.

10:29:52 And 22nd street has improved, and the neighborhood is

10:30:00 better, and the alcoholic sales won't affect the kids.




10:30:07 But we are also for the kids.

10:30:14 There is juice and different things the kids can have.

10:30:16 It's not just a community with kids.

10:30:17 There's a variety of different people there.

10:30:22 Adults and youth, and there are kids as well.

10:30:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.

10:30:32 I think I recall the application, looked like a little

10:30:38 convenience store.

10:30:39 >>> Correct.

10:30:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is it open yet?

10:30:43 Are you all fixing it up?

10:30:45 >>> Yes.

10:30:45 >> Which one?

10:30:46 >>> We are fixing it up to open

10:30:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We talked about hours of operation

10:30:55 last time.

10:30:56 I think we had agreed --

10:31:00 >>> Stop alcohol at 10 p.m.

10:31:02 >> 10 p.m. seven days a week?

10:31:04 >>> Yes.

10:31:05 >> And I guess Ms. Saul-Sena's suggestion, I know it's

10:31:10 going to be a new suggestion for you, is the




10:31:13 possibility that we give you a one-year conditional

10:31:17 license, or conditional approval, to see how it goes.

10:31:24 And out of concerns raised by Ms. Miller that -- and

10:31:31 the assumption would be that if you all do good for the

10:31:34 year, then you can come back next year and make your

10:31:37 case again, and then see what council does on a more

10:31:42 permanent basis.

10:31:47 I might be amenable to that personally just because I

10:31:51 think everybody deserves a chance.

10:31:53 And I know in my neighborhood, we have got 7-Elevens

10:32:00 and those type of conveniences stores up against Bay to

10:32:03 Bay, MacDill, Davis Island where Linda lives, you

10:32:06 have two convenience stores that back up close to

10:32:09 neighborhoods and that sort of thing.

10:32:10 So I think as long as it's responsible, then that's the

10:32:13 critical -- that's the critical part of it.

10:32:15 >>> Absolutely.

10:32:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm just tossing it out there.

10:32:20 Is that something that you might be interested in?

10:32:22 >>> Yes.

10:32:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder, I know what a 7-Eleven

10:32:28 is.




10:32:28 This is one door, it's not like 7-Eleven.

10:32:32 They have a drive-in.

10:32:33 It's right on the street.

10:32:34 You walk right out on the street.

10:32:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You gave the example not in terms

10:32:51 of the actual store but in terms of a convenience store

10:32:54 with food and sandwiches and a little bit of beer and

10:32:57 wine.

10:32:59 I remember it.

10:33:03 I was hoping that they would be fixing it up.

10:33:23 >> The sign said beer.

10:33:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We pointed that out last time.

10:33:27 I think that was left over from the prior occupant.

10:33:30 Because they are not even open yet.

10:33:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, anything else?

10:33:38 Yes, ma'am.

10:33:39 Anything else?

10:33:40 >>> Yes.

10:33:40 I respectfully ask for your approval again.

10:33:42 It's three stores in the area.

10:33:45 Not far from my store that sell alcohol and it's in the

10:33:49 same vicinity, the same apartment complex that Ms.




10:33:53 Miller is speaking on, is there with three additional

10:33:58 stores as well.

10:33:59 And the 7-Eleven sells alcohol as well, and they sell

10:34:06 everything that I will be selling, and alcohol sales

10:34:08 doesn't affect the kids, and kids go to 7-Elevens and

10:34:15 it doesn't affect the kids and we are responsible and

10:34:18 will do everything we need to do.

10:34:20 And I think the one-year conditional, if I have to come

10:34:22 back again, I have to pay the $2500 that I paid to come

10:34:27 in front of you guys again.

10:34:28 And we are a small business.

10:34:30 And I wanted to bring that financial part up again.

10:34:35 But I will take those conditions.

10:34:37 I would like for you guys to give us a chance.

10:34:40 >> Do you own the place?

10:34:42 >> Yes.

10:34:42 I am going to be the new owner of it.

10:34:44 We are in contract now with taking over the

10:34:48 establishment and I will be the new owner of the store.

10:34:51 >> Owner by yourself?

10:34:53 >> Yes.

10:34:53 >> Got any children?




10:34:55 >> Yes.

10:34:55 >> How many children do you have?

10:34:56 >> I have two.

10:34:57 >> Married?

10:34:58 >> Yes.

10:35:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I sit here, and I guess the only

10:35:07 thing I got in life is a pretty good memory.

10:35:10 But I wonder, in a case like yours, I'm not speaking to

10:35:15 you directly, but I have seen these things come up all

10:35:18 the time in all different parts of the neighborhoods

10:35:20 and they say, you can't sell singles.

10:35:25 They can sell singles anywhere else.

10:35:28 That hasn't been asked.

10:35:29 And I'm sure you are going to sell single bottles.

10:35:33 You have to.

10:35:36 I mean, that's only logical.

10:35:38 So I haven't heard that lately.

10:35:40 It's been quiet, on the back burner somehow.

10:35:43 But I have said all along, that is not an appropriate

10:35:47 question to ask.

10:35:50 Alcohol beverage zonings or you don't.

10:35:52 But you don't get one of the conditions I put in.




10:35:59 I can tell you ten places, and my memory is still very,

10:36:02 very good, where it's happened at.

10:36:04 And I was the only one in the beginning to vote no.

10:36:07 And you have a compelling case.

10:36:09 But I just don't think it's appropriate for the

10:36:11 neighborhood.

10:36:12 And for the record, I was born, raised -- I wasn't born

10:36:16 there but I was raised at 26th Avenue and 20th

10:36:20 street in what I thought were condominiums.

10:36:23 But they were actually the Tampa Housing Authority.

10:36:25 >>GWEN MILLER: They are condominiums now.

10:36:29 >> Condominiums now.

10:36:33 And you have solar hot water and everything else.

10:36:37 So that's where we are at.

10:36:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me follow up.

10:36:40 You own the building?

10:36:41 >> Yes, I will be owning the building.

10:36:43 I'm in contract with them now.

10:36:44 And getting the financial part.

10:36:48 I am leasing it currently from them at the moment.

10:36:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Leasing it from them.

10:36:53 Don't own it yet.




10:36:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: She's under contract.

10:36:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Under contract.

10:36:57 You own the business.

10:36:58 >> Yes.

10:37:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other stores?

10:37:03 >> No.

10:37:04 This is my first store.

10:37:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's a tough one.

10:37:10 >> It really is.

10:37:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Very tough.

10:37:13 Yes.

10:37:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I felt like council provided the

10:37:21 public as well as ourselves with the option of creating

10:37:23 the conditional which gives us time to see the impact.

10:37:27 My concern is always with people with alcohol is people

10:37:32 leaving with glass bottles, perhaps breaking the

10:37:35 bottles, you know, creating a problem for the

10:37:39 surrounding neighborhood with trash and litter and

10:37:42 broken glass.

10:37:43 That's always been my biggest concern.

10:37:47 How would you address that?

10:37:50 >> They won't sit at the establishment and drink it.




10:37:53 If they went to the 7-Eleven and purchased beer,

10:37:56 alcohol sales, they would take it and go back to their

10:37:59 residence or wherever they are going with it.

10:38:01 And we'll keep it clean as well as our store.

10:38:08 And eliminate that so that doesn't happen.

10:38:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.

10:38:22 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, for this young lady

10:38:23 to come back, it's probably around $2300, $2500 to come

10:38:28 for reapplication.

10:38:30 >>> Yes, sir.

10:38:30 >> We don't have many young people such as this lady

10:38:35 and this gentleman coming up here looking for a

10:38:37 license.

10:38:38 I will not support a conditional, but I will support

10:38:42 the motion for approval.

10:38:43 >>> Thank you.

10:38:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, we got a problem then, because I

10:38:50 was going to not vote for it at all.

10:38:52 I was leaning towards one-year conditional.

10:38:55 Leaning.

10:38:57 And I'm just concerned because a lot of work has gone

10:39:00 into that.




10:39:01 Ms. Miller is right, a lot of work has gone into

10:39:04 cleaning up the area.

10:39:05 It is a whole lot better.

10:39:06 I just don't want to open that door back up.

10:39:09 But maybe a young entrepreneur I'm willing to see one

10:39:13 year, see how it works and how well you kept the

10:39:16 property, as well as a lot of loitering and stuff

10:39:21 around, now.

10:39:22 >>> And that's what I ask for is a chance so you guys

10:39:25 can see how it goes.

10:39:32 >>GWEN MILLER: We have to close it.

10:39:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.

10:39:38 If he's not going to vote for the conditional, it's

10:39:40 going to fail anyway.

10:39:41 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: We haven't had a vote yet,

10:39:46 Mr. Chairman.

10:39:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

10:39:49 Let's close the public hearing.

10:39:56 Motion to close?

10:39:58 >> Move to close.

10:39:59 >>GWEN MILLER: I make a motion for denial.

10:40:02 In section 27-269, my motion is to deny because the use




10:40:06 is not compatible, contiguous and surrounding use is a

10:40:13 public necessity and the use will not establish a

10:40:16 precedent for low-intensity compatibility in the

10:40:21 surrounding areas.

10:40:22 That's why I am going to move for denial.

10:40:24 >>MARY MULHERN: I'll second that.

10:40:27 I just want to say, you are trying to open a small

10:40:33 business.

10:40:34 But I think this is coming after -- wasn't it last week

10:40:41 where we had a workshop discussion about our alcohol

10:40:43 policy, and what has become very clear is that this

10:40:49 council on a regular basis approves liquor licenses

10:40:59 that are asking for all these waivers.

10:41:01 So basically we have a policy, we have codes that we

10:41:06 make all these exceptions all the time.

10:41:08 And this to me looks like an example of one of those

10:41:12 places where when the idea is to not have liquor sales

10:41:17 adjacent to neighborhoods, we just go ahead and approve

10:41:21 it, because we have -- we get this request from

10:41:27 someone, which is, you know, as a personal request,

10:41:31 it's very compelling.

10:41:32 But I think that we really need to start following our




10:41:36 code more closely.

10:41:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think it's wonderful to follow

10:41:44 our code.

10:41:44 But the problem is the codes aren't realistic, because

10:41:52 this one, 22nd.

10:41:53 The ABC on Kennedy Boulevard, right down the street

10:41:56 here, backs up to residential on north "A" Boulevard,

10:42:01 the same thing on Hillsborough.

10:42:04 It backs up so our codes say don't put these liquor

10:42:07 stores within X number of feet of residential, but we

10:42:10 all know that that's just the way this city is laid

10:42:13 out, and we have our main boulevards backed right up to

10:42:16 residential, and therefore that's why we have waivers.

10:42:19 So, yes, there's a lot of waivers here.

10:42:21 It doesn't look like -- it looks like the store has

10:42:24 been here before.

10:42:26 Ms. Saul-Sena pointed out on the side of the building

10:42:28 it said beer for sale.

10:42:29 So obviously at some point, some prior establishment

10:42:32 had a state liquor license and a city zoning to allow

10:42:35 beer sales.

10:42:36 So there's not necessarily something new.




10:42:39 I think we are talking out of both sides of our mouth.

10:42:42 Because --

10:42:45 >>> Yes.

10:42:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, I'm not asking you.

10:42:47 Because even last night, I was at a discussion about

10:42:50 jobs and small business, and if any one of you were

10:42:54 there, you would have said the same thing I am saying

10:42:57 which is we need to do everything we can to create

10:42:59 jobs, to help small business, et cetera, et cetera.

10:43:03 >> Amen.

10:43:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Knott.

10:43:09 I don't know.

10:43:10 I just think to say absolutely denial sends the wrong

10:43:14 message to this young lady who has her act together,

10:43:17 she has some capital going, she wants to create a mom

10:43:21 and pop store.

10:43:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Adjusts have the grocery store and --

10:43:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay, you are interrupting me.

10:43:31 You are interrupting me, Mrs. Miller.

10:43:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Sorry better that but I --

10:43:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay, okay.

10:43:37 I can just finish in 30 seconds.




10:43:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.

10:43:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't think we should do the

10:43:42 absolute flat denial as suggested by my good friend Ms.

10:43:45 Miller.

10:43:46 I think of what we need to do is tweak it up, give her

10:43:48 a one-year conditional and see how that goes.

10:43:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano.

10:43:53 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: If this motion fails, I'll change

10:43:59 to support the one-year conditional to give these young

10:44:02 people a chance.

10:44:03 I'm a small businessman.

10:44:04 Believe me, you want to see how many stores have closed

10:44:06 in New Tampa.

10:44:08 Two of them right next door to each other.

10:44:10 A frame shop, and a barbecue place.

10:44:14 It's tough out there, believe me.

10:44:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, Mrs. Miller.

10:44:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Chairman, I'm not denying we need a

10:44:22 grocery store in that area.

10:44:23 That will be fine.

10:44:24 But we don't need no more beer in that area.

10:44:26 The police had a time cleaning that area up and that




10:44:30 was one of the places closed down because it was a

10:44:32 problem there.

10:44:33 And I don't want to have to bug the police department

10:44:35 again, but I sure will, and I know we will be bugging

10:44:39 them.

10:44:39 But the grocery store will be fine.

10:44:41 It's fine because they need someplace to buy gross

10:44:44 race.

10:44:45 It's not a big store there to buy it.

10:44:48 They will give you a lot of business with the gross

10:44:49 race.

10:44:50 So that's the only reason I say you can still have a

10:44:52 grocery there.

10:44:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, this is a tough call.

10:44:57 I am not going to support the motion on the floor, Ms.

10:45:00 Miller.

10:45:00 I am going to give deference to the opportunities with

10:45:03 a one-year conditional.

10:45:05 The unemployment rate now in this area is right at 13%.

10:45:09 On African-Americans it's higher.

10:45:11 It's higher.

10:45:12 Much higher.




10:45:13 And so I will give you the opportunities for one year.

10:45:17 For one year.

10:45:18 And so you can help your family.

10:45:22 It's up to you to make it work, keep that place clean,

10:45:26 and don't keep people hanging around.

10:45:28 I'm telling you.

10:45:29 Because it will come back.

10:45:31 Okay.

10:45:32 Record your vote on the motion.

10:45:33 Motion to deny.

10:45:35 >>THE CLERK: What I have on the system is the

10:45:40 ordinance.

10:45:42 We need to take a voice roll call.

10:45:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That wasn't her vote.

10:45:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The motion was to deny.

10:45:48 >> But the system shows the ordinance.

10:45:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Voice vote.

10:45:51 Okay.

10:45:51 >> Let's vote on the motion to deny.

10:46:09 (Roll call vote)

10:46:15 >>THE CLERK: Motion failed with Caetano, Saul-Sena,

10:46:17 Scott, and Dingfelder voting no.




10:46:20 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like to make a motion to

10:46:25 grant with a one-year conditional.

10:46:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I can, Mr. Chairman, is there a

10:46:30 second for that?

10:46:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

10:46:33 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That would require that the ordinance

10:46:35 have to be revised.

10:46:36 Ms. Kert, would you advise council as to the best way

10:46:38 to proceed?

10:46:39 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.

10:46:40 After the next alcohol permit, I can try to have that

10:46:43 done before the end of the day depending on how long

10:46:45 the staff reports are.

10:46:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: To come back as first reading.

10:46:50 >>REBECCA KERT: For first reading.

10:46:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What is this young lady's name again?

10:46:54 Can you come forward, ma'am?

10:46:55 >> Boyd.

10:47:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We are going to give you the

10:47:04 opportunity.

10:47:04 I hope you own this business and this building.

10:47:08 If I find out otherwise, if you have given false




10:47:12 statement to this body --

10:47:14 >>> Oh, no.

10:47:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And I believe that we have a right to

10:47:20 revoke that if a false statement has been given.

10:47:22 >> That's never come up, but that would be committing

10:47:29 perjury which is a chargeable offense.

10:47:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You need to look at that.

10:47:34 Okay.

10:47:34 So I want you to know, you are given the opportunity.

10:47:38 Make good on it.

10:47:39 >>> I will.

10:47:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Chairman, just to clarify the

10:47:43 record, two things.

10:47:44 One, officer Miller gave testimony last time and TPD

10:47:51 has no objections.

10:47:52 So I just wanted to clarify that.

10:47:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

10:47:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And the other thing is just so

10:47:57 there's no misunderstanding about the ownership of the

10:47:59 building, you said you had it under contract, and you

10:48:02 hope to be buying it soon.

10:48:04 Correct?




10:48:06 >> Correct.

10:48:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's move to item --

10:48:10 >> We haven't voted.

10:48:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: To bring it back.

10:48:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: To direct the legal department to do

10:48:15 that.

10:48:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The motion then.

10:48:16 Was there a second?

10:48:17 >> Second.

10:48:18 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want to ask legal.

10:48:20 Hopefully the end of the day is noon today.

10:48:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.

10:48:29 Opposes?

10:48:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And I am going to qualify my vote

10:48:32 Nay.

10:48:33 I don't speak out of both sides of my mouth.

10:48:35 I'm not asking you or anyone else about not selling

10:48:39 singles, which you are.

10:48:41 This council has always said that, which I have always

10:48:44 disagreed with them.

10:48:45 Thank you very much.

10:48:46 Have a nice day.




10:48:46 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miller and Miranda

10:48:50 voting no.

10:48:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 47.

10:48:59 This is a public hearing.

10:49:01 Does anyone wish to address council?

10:49:02 It's a public hearing.

10:49:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I see none.

10:49:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.

10:49:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor say Aye.

10:49:10 Mr. Miranda, number 47.

10:49:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move an ordinance approving a

10:49:14 special use permit SU for alcohol zoning sales on

10:49:20 second reading large venue and making lawful sales

10:49:22 regardless of alcoholic beer, wine and liquor, it looks

10:49:27 like 2-C -- 11-C for consumption on the premises only

10:49:35 to members and guests of members of nonprofit private

10:49:38 clubs on or from that certain lot, plot or tract of

10:49:41 land located at 1610 North Tampa Street, Tampa,

10:49:44 Florida, as more particularly described in section 2

10:49:47 hereof, providing for repeal of all ordinances in

10:49:49 conflict, providing an effective date.

10:49:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a certificated?




10:49:54 Record your vote.

10:49:55 Moved and seconded.

10:50:07 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena being

10:50:08 absent.

10:50:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 48.

10:50:13 Item 48.

10:50:13 Anyone from the public wish to address council on item

10:50:16 48?

10:50:19 Motion to close?

10:50:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So moved.

10:50:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?

10:50:22 >> Second.

10:50:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.

10:50:26 Okay.

10:50:27 Item 48.

10:50:28 Ms. Miller.

10:50:29 >>GWEN MILLER: I move an item for second reading, a

10:50:45 plan amendment future land use map for the property at

10:50:50 3075 north Rocky Point drive east from medium density

10:50:54 residential 35, R-35 to community mixed use-35 --

10:51:03 >> There's a new one.

10:51:04 Sorry.




10:51:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to adopt the following ordinance

10:51:07 future land use map for the property located in the

10:51:08 general vicinity of 3075 north Rocky Point drive east

10:51:11 from medium density residential 35, R-35, to community

10:51:15 mixed use 35, CMU-35, providing for repeal of all

10:51:20 ordinances in conflict, providing for severability,

10:51:23 providing an effective date.

10:51:23 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Second.

10:51:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

10:51:26 Record your vote.

10:51:33 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda and Saul-Sena

10:51:40 being absent.

10:51:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We are down to our staff reports.

10:51:45 Mr. Smith, I see you are here.

10:51:47 Any particular item you are here for?

10:51:52 Chief of staff Darrell Smith.

10:51:57 >>DARRELL SMITH: I was just here with the riverwalk

10:52:00 items that were pulled by Ms. Mulhern, item 39 and 40.

10:52:06 I have riverwalk manager Lee Hoffman here available to

10:52:09 speak to the technical aspects of this resolution.

10:52:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

10:52:13 We will take those items first.




10:52:14 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.

10:52:16 Mr. Smith, you can probably answer most of my

10:52:19 questions.

10:52:21 And only a couple of technical questions.

10:52:24 It's really more about the budget.

10:52:32 The project is supposed to call 2.5 million, the total,

10:52:36 for this portion.

10:52:36 Okay.

10:52:38 And the city gets reimbursed 1.5 million from the local

10:52:43 option gas tax from FDOT.

10:52:46 Is that correct?

10:52:48 >>> Yes.

10:52:49 >>MARY MULHERN: There's one million there.

10:52:52 Really this is my main question.

10:52:55 We approved in this year's budget 350,000 toward the

10:53:01 riverwalk under this, and under that line item.

10:53:06 And I want to know where we are expecting the remaining

10:53:10 $650,000 to come from.

10:53:13 You know, where is that coming from?

10:53:15 >> I'll let Lee Hoffman address that in detail, but

10:53:19 it's from the friends of the riverwalk, and a grant

10:53:21 that we received from the feds.




10:53:26 Lee would be a better one to be speak to that in

10:53:27 detail.

10:53:28 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.

10:53:31 >> Lee Hoffman, development manager, City of Tampa.

10:53:36 Yes, ma'am, that's correct.

10:53:36 >>MARY MULHERN: How much is the grant, and where is

10:53:39 the grants coming from?

10:53:40 >>> The grant is an economic development grant that we

10:53:43 got from economic -- from HUD, and that's $200,000 that

10:53:49 will go against this, in addition to community funds

10:53:53 through friends of the riverwalk for 350,000.

10:53:55 >> Okay.

10:53:57 And the HUD grant, was that specifically for the

10:54:00 riverwalk?

10:54:01 >>> Yes, ma'am.

10:54:02 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to see the backup on

10:54:09 that.

10:54:09 Is that something we already have that money?

10:54:11 >>> Yes, ma'am.

10:54:12 That was an '08 allocation to us, and we are going to

10:54:16 place that against -- it was specifically for marine

10:54:20 construction and we had a little delay on our




10:54:22 construction because FDOT rules changed just a little

10:54:26 bit but did not allow us to build it when we wanted to.

10:54:29 That has since been addressed through FDOT and that's

10:54:32 what the agreement is today that will allow us to go

10:54:34 ahead and spend this money to construct it and then

10:54:37 reimburse in 2012 from FDOT.

10:54:40 >> So that 200 is separate.

10:54:43 >>> Yes, ma'am.

10:54:47 >> So do you have the 350,000 from the friends or is

10:54:50 that something we are hoping to raise?

10:54:52 >> No, it is there.

10:54:54 It is just a matter of appropriating it in the account.

10:54:57 I addressed that with the Board of Directors on the

10:55:00 riverwalk side.

10:55:01 >> So you are telling me we do have that money, the

10:55:03 friends of the riverwalk does have the $350,000 right

10:55:06 now?

10:55:07 >>> That's correct.

10:55:07 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.

10:55:13 I guess that's -- my other question, it sounds like

10:55:20 this is all ---you are giving me the answers that I

10:55:24 needed and it sounds like it's all pretty much




10:55:27 earmarked basically for the riverwalk.

10:55:33 As long as that HUD money is in hand, and it was for

10:55:35 the riverwalk, that's fine.

10:55:37 >> Yes, ma'am, it is.

10:55:38 >> Okay.

10:55:40 Another question so that we know what we are approving.

10:55:45 What specific kind of work -- this is the technical

10:55:48 question -- are you going to be doing?

10:55:50 >> This is the actual construction of the riverwalk

10:55:52 that goes underneath Brorein.

10:55:55 We have completed all the way from the Channelside area

10:55:57 all the way to USF park underneath the Crosstown to

10:56:01 Brorein.

10:56:02 So this is the next piece in that sequence and it will

10:56:05 go from USF park underneath Brorein and over to what

10:56:09 used to be called the --

10:56:12 >> How are you doing that?

10:56:13 Are you building out over the river?

10:56:15 >>> Yes, ma'am.

10:56:15 It actually goes over the river and under the bridge

10:56:20 almost exactly like Platt Street.

10:56:24 >> And I had a question for Mr. Smith, since this came




10:56:26 up unrelated, was about the LEED certified building.

10:56:31 We approved that Spring Hill building.

10:56:39 >>DARRELL SMITH: I would like Steve Daignault address

10:56:41 that specifically.

10:56:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have first the riverwalk questions.

10:56:47 Let's stay on that for a minute.

10:56:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Not for you.

10:56:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We are still on the riverwalk.

10:56:54 >>MARY MULHERN: Wait, I just have something I have to

10:56:57 backtrack:

10:56:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You yield the floor to Ms. Saul-Sena

10:57:01 and then come back to you.

10:57:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you very much.

10:57:04 Last Friday, I want to tell you, I felt so much safer

10:57:10 because of the under the Platt Street connection which

10:57:13 is so attractive and so safe, and it was such a

10:57:18 qualitative improvement from previous years when there

10:57:21 wasn't a safe way to get from the Bayshore side to the

10:57:26 downtown side.

10:57:27 I want to compliment you on that and I want to ask you

10:57:30 briefly, what is the construction schedule for the

10:57:32 Platt Street bridge?




10:57:33 I know that for three or four months it will be under

10:57:36 construction.

10:57:37 >> The bridge itself?

10:57:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Platt Street.

10:57:43 Do you know when that's beginning?

10:57:47 >>> That's a county project.

10:57:48 I have not heard recently when they expect to do that.

10:57:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Maybe Mr. Daignault fault can

10:57:54 answer.

10:57:54 I wanted to compliment you on the under-the-bridge

10:57:58 connection.

10:57:58 It's so attractive.

10:58:00 >> Another said finally the downtown is a place where I

10:58:05 feel bike ago round.

10:58:07 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you for coming back to the

10:58:11 riverwalk, Linda, because my trustee assistant, my

10:58:18 brain pointed out to me we are still missing $100,000

10:58:21 in the total here.

10:58:22 So where is that coming from?

10:58:23 Because the total from HUD and from a the friends of

10:58:25 the riverwalk is 550, not 650.

10:58:30 >>> Yes, ma'am I still have another 100,000 in the




10:58:34 budget from last time.

10:58:36 If you will remember, last year, you approved $350,000.

10:58:39 The year before that was 210,000.

10:58:41 So there's some money still in my CIP account to cover

10:58:44 that.

10:58:44 And we expect it to come into that a little less than

10:58:48 2.5.

10:58:49 Hopefully it will.

10:58:49 But we have enough money to cover it if it ends up

10:58:52 being 2.5 from past CIP budget.

10:58:54 >>MARY MULHERN: I just think it's interesting that

10:58:59 none of this, as far as I know, is in the budget we

10:59:02 approved.

10:59:02 >>> Yes, ma'am.

10:59:07 >>MARY MULHERN: It was all in the budget?

10:59:09 >>> Yes, ma'am.

10:59:09 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't know.

10:59:12 I mean, I do remember asking Mr. Smith during the

10:59:14 budget how much money was going toward the riverwalk,

10:59:17 and --

10:59:18 >>> In '09 it was 210,000 N.10 it was 350,000.

10:59:23 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.




10:59:24 But you just added that 650, which I don't know that

10:59:29 was in the budget we passed?

10:59:31 >>> Yes, ma'am.

10:59:34 In '09 you passed 210,000. In '10 you passed 350,000.

10:59:41 And if I take 450,000 and add it to the other items

10:59:44 that we talked about previously, the grants, and the

10:59:47 friends of riverwalk, that ends up being 2.5 million.

10:59:50 >>MARY MULHERN: So you are going to take that 100,000

11:00:00 from CIP money.

11:00:04 That's a change, though, that we are going to have to

11:00:06 approve.

11:00:08 Right?

11:00:09 It isn't budgeted at this point for that.

11:00:13 >> When we do the financials for the bid process, all

11:00:17 that will be outlined, and from the city's standpoint,

11:00:21 we'll take 350,000 from the '10 CIP budget from

11:00:28 riverwalk and take 100,000 from the '09 budget, and

11:00:32 that will be 450,000 that we need to supplement the

11:00:35 grants and the friends of riverwalk.

11:00:37 And it equals 2.5 million.

11:00:39 >> Right.

11:00:40 My concern -- and this isn't for you, this is for Mr.




11:00:44 Smith -- is that I feel like when the council passes

11:00:49 the budget, we didn't approve this stuff.

11:00:52 This is all things that are, you know, kind of coming

11:00:55 to us, after our opportunity to approve the budget, and

11:01:04 I think it should be laid out at budget time if we are

11:01:08 planning to be using all the money, especially we are

11:01:15 taking advantage of the local option gas tax which

11:01:20 could be used for any transportation projects, and it's

11:01:24 a bit of a stretch to be using it for, you know, going

11:01:27 under the river.

11:01:28 So I don't know.

11:01:32 When budget time comes around again, and I'm asking

11:01:35 these questions, I guess I have to be more specific.

11:01:44 >>DARRELL SMITH: I would like to respond to that.

11:01:46 Darrell Smith, chief of staff.

11:01:48 Just to clarify you previously approved in '09 CIP

11:01:52 money for riverwalk purposes, and you approved 350,000

11:01:55 in the 2010 budget for riverwalk in this budget, and

11:02:02 the friends of the riverwalk funds will come from out

11:02:07 side to supplement the funding for the project as will

11:02:13 the federal grant.

11:02:16 The two items were not in the budget, nor would they




11:02:19 typically be there.

11:02:21 Gas tax money is also a very important source for

11:02:25 pedestrian sources, so that we can not only drive on

11:02:30 roads that can take people out of vehicles, put them

11:02:35 into the pedestrian paths as they recreate and front

11:02:42 work.

11:02:43 >>MARY MULHERN: I understand that.

11:02:44 I just appreciate all the clarification, and, you know,

11:02:52 I think that will be okay.

11:02:53 I'll ask more questions at our next budget hearings.

11:02:58 I just want to say this, that we are in tough times.

11:03:00 I mean, just a lot of people just are losing their

11:03:03 jobs, and the money is scarce, and we have bridges that

11:03:07 need fixing and roads thatch need work.

11:03:10 So --

11:03:14 >>> This is a 2.5 million construction project that

11:03:17 will provide jobs for the local economy.

11:03:19 >>GWEN MILLER:

11:03:20 >>MARY MULHERN: Provide jobs.

11:03:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.

11:03:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: In the bigger picture of the

11:03:26 riverwalk, I think there's nothing hidden, because




11:03:35 these things come in.

11:03:36 But they sort of come in piecemeal.

11:03:39 And that's no criticism of you.

11:03:41 You have done a great job.

11:03:42 I think the best thing to do -- and I'll leave this up

11:03:44 to you to schedule -- but why don't you try to schedule

11:03:47 to come back maybe during one of our workshops, give us

11:03:49 15 or 20 minutes, make a full presentation on the

11:03:52 progress that we have made over the last seven years in

11:03:55 continuing this riverwalk.

11:03:56 This riverwalk wasn't started by this administration.

11:03:58 It was started by prior admissions, we have a great

11:04:01 river, and we need to create a great riverwalk.

11:04:05 So why don't you come in, give us a presentation not

11:04:08 only on the success that we have made and the segments

11:04:10 that we build, but also give us the dollar amounts

11:04:13 associated with each one, okay.

11:04:15 Break it out.

11:04:16 The Channelside segment, you know, was built, in this

11:04:20 particular year.

11:04:21 I'm not talking down to the penny.

11:04:23 But 100,000 came from this.




11:04:25 A 5th hundred thousand came from this.

11:04:27 1 million came from this.

11:04:29 And just walk us down the river and say this is the

11:04:31 segment we are building, this is how we are building,

11:04:34 this is what we paid for, the community deserves to

11:04:36 know that.

11:04:36 I think a lot of the money has come from the federal

11:04:38 government, has come from the state government, some of

11:04:40 it comes from local government.

11:04:41 Let's just air it out, so we don't have as many

11:04:45 confusions and questions.

11:04:46 And then that way, I think it would be a good exercise,

11:04:50 because generally speaking, this council has been

11:04:52 supportive of it.

11:04:53 Obviously the mayor is supportive of it.

11:04:55 And at the end of the day, I think we'll all look back

11:04:59 and say it was a good project.

11:05:00 >>> I totally agree blood pressure reviewing the past

11:05:05 and we can include where we are today what the

11:05:07 immediate goals are for the future.

11:05:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll let you all schedule that.

11:05:13 >>MARY MULHERN: One more thing.




11:05:15 I just got this information.

11:05:18 So -- sorry.

11:05:24 I guess this is my last question.

11:05:29 We closed out the money for the '09 budget, right?

11:05:32 >> Closed the fund balance.

11:05:35 >>MARY MULHERN: So we are taking this out of fund

11:05:37 balance.

11:05:37 It's not still in that account.

11:05:39 >>> It wags earmarked for the accounts, year end to

11:05:42 close the fund balance and it would take another

11:05:45 resolution to move it from fund balance back into --

11:05:49 >>> Right.

11:05:50 We are going to have to move all of that stuff around.

11:05:52 So we didn't approve that when we approved the budget,

11:05:55 is what I am trying to say.

11:05:56 And --

11:05:58 >> Approved it in the 08-09 budget.

11:06:04 >> But when we hear what the fund balance is, and we,

11:06:07 now, we are hearing all of this, this is not part of

11:06:09 the budget.

11:06:10 I mean, you have to add that money back in, right?

11:06:13 >> Yes, ma'am.




11:06:15 But it is very normal.

11:06:17 And that's the way the CIP budget works day in and day

11:06:21 out year to year.

11:06:21 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.

11:06:23 Thanks.

11:06:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

11:06:31 That was on item 39 and 40, those two items.

11:06:37 Okay.

11:06:41 Motion to approve item 39 and 40.

11:06:44 >> So moved.

11:06:45 >> Second.

11:06:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

11:06:48 All in favor?

11:06:48 Opposes?

11:06:49 >>MARY MULHERN: Nay.

11:06:50 >>GWEN MILLER:

11:06:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Then an item from councilman

11:06:56 Dingfelder.

11:06:57 Item 24.

11:06:58 >> We were just talking about it.

11:07:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You can't talk from the audience, sir.

11:07:03 You have to be on the record.




11:07:04 >>GWEN MILLER: You have to come to the mike.

11:07:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.

11:07:09 Item 24.

11:07:10 I was a little confused.

11:07:12 And Ms. Brickhouse and Mr. Fletcher will clear up my

11:07:15 confusion.

11:07:16 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: City attorney.

11:07:19 What is before you on item 24 is an agreement to

11:07:23 terminate the agreement previously negotiated between

11:07:27 TECO and the city for sale of power from the MacKay

11:07:30 Bay.

11:07:35 It had a precondition in that agreement that if

11:07:38 approved by the PSC before it becomes effective, Public

11:07:42 Service Commission regulates rates for TECO.

11:07:46 They deferred this numerous times, and failed to take

11:07:49 action, and indicated they will likely not be approving

11:07:52 it.

11:07:53 So we have recommended with TECO to terminate that

11:07:57 agreement.

11:07:58 We will seek to sell our power to other amenities that

11:08:02 have more flexibility in their rates.

11:08:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda.




11:08:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me tell what you "good" means

11:08:14 for me.

11:08:15 We are adamant about putting these two agreements

11:08:18 together.

11:08:19 Some of us.

11:08:20 Some of us said, no, leave them separate.

11:08:23 We made another mistake.

11:08:25 Once you put them together, and correct me anytime you

11:08:29 want because I'm a novice.

11:08:33 I'm a novice but I know just enough to be dangerous.

11:08:40 When we put these together, it falls where?

11:08:42 The Public Service Commission.

11:08:48 They say, why are you paying the City of Tampa these

11:08:50 kind of rates?

11:08:51 That means that the rest of the taxpayers are

11:08:53 subsidizing the city.

11:08:54 Am I correct?

11:09:00 I'm saying that the Public Service Commission said, why

11:09:03 are you paying what you are paying to the City of

11:09:06 Tampa?

11:09:07 Yes,.

11:09:09 >> yes, the public service reaction I believe was this




11:09:12 was too good of a deal for the city for them to

11:09:14 approve.

11:09:15 >> In their minds they said why should the rate payers

11:09:17 subsidize the city.

11:09:19 Am I correct?

11:09:20 In essence?

11:09:21 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Could you look at it that way.

11:09:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.

11:09:25 That's a half yes and a half no.

11:09:27 I appreciate that.

11:09:28 That's what you get paid to do.

11:09:30 So then immaterial telling myself, let me see how smart

11:09:33 we were.

11:09:34 We wanted to tell what to do, when to do it, and didn't

11:09:37 have the authority to tell them what to do, when to do

11:09:40 it and how to dot and I'm not an employee of TECO. I

11:09:43 said that then.

11:09:45 But my common sense told me, this that's the Public

11:09:48 Service Commission.

11:09:49 Leave that alone.

11:09:51 We tainted it.

11:09:54 It became part of the contract.




11:09:55 Now guess what.

11:09:58 At the end of the day, whenever that day comes,

11:10:02 something called wheeling.

11:10:04 How are you going to carry that electricity from where

11:10:07 it's at in our plan that produces enough energy for

11:10:12 about 15,000 homes a day to wherever it's going?

11:10:15 You carry it in a wheelbarrow?

11:10:18 Absolutely not.

11:10:20 You carry it in TECO's lines.

11:10:23 Guess who is going to make a net profit.

11:10:27 Did I hear you say TECO?

11:10:29 Because I saw it went through your minds, it said TECO.

11:10:34 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Under federal law they are

11:10:36 required to transmit it from our facility to another

11:10:40 wholesale prior.

11:10:41 By federal law there is a tariff that they will get for

11:10:43 that wheeling.

11:10:46 >> Right.

11:10:47 That's calling wheeling.

11:10:48 I looked up wheeling yesterday in the dictionary but I

11:10:50 just couldn't read it.

11:10:52 I didn't have my glasses.




11:10:53 So then I am telling myself, isn't this nice?

11:10:56 We strung this out, created a furor in the city, and

11:11:01 the losers are going to be us because now we have got

11:11:03 to pay the wheeling price, and we have to sell to the

11:11:07 somebody else, wherever they may be, and in my mind I

11:11:10 am thinking one of two may be it.

11:11:14 TECO never needed us.

11:11:18 This low reduction of water and electricity because

11:11:22 people are hurting.

11:11:23 So now instead of having to buy it, they don't have to

11:11:25 buy it.

11:11:26 They may not even want it and have to buy it now.

11:11:29 And again I am not speaking for TECO. Speaking for me,

11:11:33 as a taxpayer first.

11:11:35 So now we go through all of that.

11:11:37 We go through that exercise.

11:11:38 We look good in the eyes of a few.

11:11:43 And now look what happens.

11:11:44 This is the same thing as that $400,000 settlement.

11:11:51 And my opinion -- and I am entitled to a mistake, and

11:11:55 if I make one, I admit to it.

11:11:57 But in my opinion we keep doing this.




11:11:59 We talk about jobs.

11:12:01 We talk about -- we are ruining ourselves.

11:12:05 We meddle in things that we don't have the authority to

11:12:08 do.

11:12:09 And I appreciate you and your staff at times say, hey,

11:12:15 that's none of your business, you can't regulate that,

11:12:18 you don't have the authority.

11:12:19 But now who are we going to sell it to?

11:12:21 I'm just thinking of one.

11:12:25 Seminole.

11:12:25 Because they have another entity.

11:12:30 So when are they going to pay?

11:12:32 How long do they need it for?

11:12:33 And what are we paying in attorney's fees?

11:12:39 I'm not here to embarrass anybody.

11:12:41 But I guarantee by the time you figure out what we pay

11:12:44 in attorney fees to work this thing out, it's in the

11:12:47 hundreds of thousands of dollars.

11:12:51 And who gains?

11:12:53 Not the taxpayers.

11:12:55 They are the losers.

11:12:58 That's all I have got to say, Mr. Chairman.




11:12:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.

11:13:02 Any other questions by council?

11:13:04 If not then we'll move -- I'm sorry.

11:13:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just want to say that the Public

11:13:08 Service Commission, I think, was not helpful to the

11:13:13 City of Tampa or the citizens of Tampa.

11:13:16 And I think our legal department has done a decent job,

11:13:19 and I hope that the next administration is somehow

11:13:21 better able to re-look at our agreements to be better

11:13:26 for the community.

11:13:27 >> Just address two items.

11:13:31 One, just for clarity, because we mentioned tying

11:13:35 agreement agreements together.

11:13:36 This does not disturb the franchise agreement that was

11:13:38 approved by council.

11:13:39 This is a separate independent agreement.

11:13:42 And our view was at the time that it was approved by

11:13:46 council, submitted to the PSC, that it did meet the

11:13:49 legal test because it wags below the cost what TECO is

11:13:54 spending on other items for power, and that's why we

11:13:57 felt that it was legally appropriate to do that.

11:13:59 They obviously didn't agree with that.




11:14:01 So that's where we are today.

11:14:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Going by memory, if I remember,

11:14:07 they had to buy a certain percent.

11:14:10 I don't know if it was 70, 80, 90 of whatever we

11:14:14 produced.

11:14:15 Now we are going to have to find a buyer for whatever

11:14:18 amount, 70, 80, 90% of that.

11:14:21 And if you don't have a buyer for that --

11:14:26 >> Be if we don't have a buyer for that, then we will

11:14:28 be able to sell it actually to TECO.

11:14:31 >> At what rate?

11:14:32 >> Well, at the rate PSC was trying to get us to sell

11:14:35 to.

11:14:35 >> So a contract would have been separately, the

11:14:38 citizens would have won.

11:14:41 I didn't hear you.

11:14:46 Say anything you want but say yes.

11:14:48 >> I don't agree with that but I don't really want to

11:14:51 argue with you.

11:14:51 >> You don't disagree with it either, do you?

11:14:55 I'm having a little discussion with you one on one.

11:14:58 There's no cameras here.




11:15:00 [ Laughter ]

11:15:01 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Well, in my opinion, the agreement

11:15:04 that we worked out with TECO at the rate we were being

11:15:06 paid will not materially effect anybody's power rates.

11:15:09 It's such a small portion of what TECO uses that TECO

11:15:15 demands to meet their needs.

11:15:16 It will not affect anyone's rates.

11:15:18 >> I agree with that.

11:15:19 However, it will affect the city's income.

11:15:20 >> Yes.

11:15:21 >> That's what I wanted to get around.

11:15:24 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Yes.

11:15:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 50, we need to receive and file.

11:15:28 That is the report from chuck Walters, stormwater.

11:15:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: 24.

11:15:41 Miranda I am going to move it because there's no

11:15:43 options here.

11:15:43 I mean, it's not in my committee.

11:15:46 And I hope that Ms. Mulhern doesn't hold it against me

11:15:50 but there's no options here.

11:15:51 They told us what to do.

11:15:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.




11:15:55 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

11:15:57 Opposes?

11:15:58 Okay.

11:15:58 Item 50.

11:16:00 Motion to receive.

11:16:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.

11:16:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

11:16:05 Second?

11:16:06 >> Ye second.

11:16:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Pass on to the stormwater

11:16:15 department my appreciation for them working on this

11:16:17 issue.

11:16:18 But now the stormwater department, I guess, is -- it's

11:16:23 going to a different department, correct?

11:16:25 Going to public works.

11:16:27 So I just want to make sure that there's somebody

11:16:35 specifically who is going to be following through on

11:16:37 this Chambree issue.

11:16:44 I don't want to the slip.

11:16:45 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Public works and utility services.

11:16:48 The project will continue on.

11:16:50 It will keep on schedule.




11:16:52 >> So I can look to you personally to make sure?

11:16:56 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Yes, sir.

11:16:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.

11:16:58 >>MARY MULHERN: Can I ask a question?

11:17:01 I'm sorry I stepped out.

11:17:02 So did you ask something about the --

11:17:12 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: What is the question?

11:17:16 >>MARY MULHERN: The park hill community center.

11:17:18 Is that going to be LEED certified?

11:17:20 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: It is going to be designed to meet

11:17:22 LEED silver certification.

11:17:24 That's correct.

11:17:24 >>MARY MULHERN: So what John says -- hold on.

11:17:29 And the mayor did say that all of our new building was

11:17:31 going to be, I thought I heard it, LEED certified.

11:17:36 So isn't that our policy then?

11:17:41 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Council member, if I'm not

11:17:43 mistaken, our current ordinance requires that they be

11:17:46 LEED certifiable.

11:17:48 By that, that they are designed to that level.

11:17:54 It would be designed -- they will be constructed to

11:17:58 LEED silver level.




11:17:59 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, the mayor didn't say that.

11:18:02 She said that it would be LEED certified gold.

11:18:05 Is that what she said?

11:18:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It's in this recommendation.

11:18:10 >>MARY MULHERN: In the recommendation.

11:18:11 >> Well, it wasn't a recommendation.

11:18:14 She told the committee that a that was our policy.

11:18:19 So I'm going to bring it up in new business.

11:18:23 So we change our ordinance to reflect that.

11:18:26 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: If it's gold, then it will be at

11:18:32 that level.

11:18:33 But it will be again constructed, designed and

11:18:35 constructed to meet that level of certification.

11:18:38 We will not have a certified piece of paper that says

11:18:41 that it has been certified by the LEED people --

11:18:47 >>GWEN MILLER:

11:18:48 >>MARY MULHERN: I understand what you are saying

11:18:50 because that's what we passed in the ordinance but the

11:18:52 mayor went beyond that, she did not make those -- you

11:18:56 know, she didn't say it would be up to those standards.

11:18:58 She said our new buildings would be LEED certified.

11:19:01 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Again, we have been, even before




11:19:08 that ordinance was approved, we have been increasing

11:19:12 the efficiency and trying to pursue that level of

11:19:15 construction.

11:19:18 As you all know and have said, even today, these are

11:19:21 tough times.

11:19:22 So if you even have to spend an extra 30 or 40 or

11:19:26 $50,000 on a project that's a 2.5 million project to

11:19:30 get a piece of paper, that may not be, in my opinion,

11:19:35 the best solution or the best expenditure of funds.

11:19:39 So we are again pursuing the letter of the ordinance,

11:19:43 and we are again designing and constructing to that

11:19:47 LEED certified level, but we are not pursuing the LEEDs

11:19:53 approval, and piece of paper.

11:19:54 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.

11:19:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Along those same lines, you are

11:20:03 going to construct the building.

11:20:06 That meets all the new requirements, as I get it from

11:20:09 the conversation I have been hearing sitting here, to a

11:20:12 level of something, whether silver or gold or bronze or

11:20:17 titanium or whatever it is.

11:20:19 What you are not going to do -- and I am going to ask

11:20:21 the question -- how much does it cost to have something




11:20:24 certified something?

11:20:27 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Sir, the answer it varies depending

11:20:30 on the size and complexity.

11:20:31 The Spring Hill project, for example, would certainly

11:20:33 be cheaper than, say, the Tampa Museum of Art.

11:20:37 And it depends on the size and the type of materials

11:20:40 that you are using, and the things that you are using

11:20:43 for your points, whether it's the roof, the air

11:20:45 conditioning system, the type of things you are using

11:20:48 to get -- add up to your points.

11:20:52 Things like access to transportation are part of the

11:20:58 point system.

11:20:59 How close are you to transit?

11:21:00 How close to bicycle paths?

11:21:03 Those sorts of things all add up.

11:21:05 So again our staff has gone and had LEEDs training, and

11:21:10 they review, and we hire architects and engineers who

11:21:15 have LEED certifications to do the design.

11:21:18 We make sure that we have again the accrued points to

11:21:22 meet what's in our ordinance.

11:21:23 But we do not pursue, again with the LEEDs folks, the

11:21:27 actual certification.




11:21:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: In other words, you meet all the

11:21:33 criteria of whatever you are going to build, other than

11:21:37 you are saying, I don't want to spend the money to get

11:21:39 it certified something.

11:21:41 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Correct.

11:21:44 And just to be clear, it's not as simple as when we are

11:21:47 done we send off a piece of paper and they put a stamp

11:21:50 on it and send it back.

11:21:51 It requires that they test, that they are there on the

11:21:55 ground during construction, so it's an extra layer of

11:21:57 inspection throughout the project that you pay for,

11:22:01 just like civil engineering and inspection.

11:22:03 It's an additional layer of inspection throughout the

11:22:06 project.

11:22:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder, then

11:22:12 Councilwoman Mulhern.

11:22:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Since we are a community of laws,

11:22:18 let me read one.

11:22:19 The ordinance that we passed says as related to

11:22:22 government buildings, any buildings in excess of

11:22:25 5,000 -- excuse me, all the construction of buildings

11:22:29 regardless of in excess of 5,000 square feet of air




11:22:32 conditioning space shall be built to satisfy the USGB

11:22:38 LEED certified standard.

11:22:40 Interesting.

11:22:42 Then we go on and talk about our incentive program in

11:22:44 the private sector.

11:22:46 Then in the private sector, we say property own hoarse

11:22:50 receive a permit for single family multifamily

11:22:53 instituted may be eligible if the structure constructed

11:22:56 is appropriately certified as a green structure by the

11:22:59 USGBC or the USGBC.

11:23:03 The

11:23:04 You know, there is a slight difference in the wording

11:23:08 but I'm really not sure that there's that difference in

11:23:10 the intent.

11:23:12 And, frankly, like I said, we are not going to stop the

11:23:15 buildings that are under construction, that we have

11:23:17 already approved, et cetera.

11:23:18 But I think we need to have a debate and discussion

11:23:21 about what the intent was.

11:23:22 And I think that just like the feds don't equivocate

11:23:26 and the state government doesn't equivocate, both the

11:23:29 state and the feds that both said we are going to do




11:23:32 LEED, silver on our new buildings, and frankly, I think

11:23:36 that's what this council's intent was two years ago.

11:23:38 So let's discuss it another day.

11:23:40 But that's what the ordinance says today.

11:23:41 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to point out one thing

11:23:49 when you talk about the costs.

11:23:51 I believe that we have at least one, if not two or more

11:23:54 people, on staff now who have LEED certification.

11:23:58 So maybe whatever this cost as being so onerous, we

11:24:06 have trained people who have can do some of that so I

11:24:10 don't think it's as onerous as you are making it sound.

11:24:13 The recommendation from the task force, the citizens,

11:24:18 mayor's TECO task force, the city should continue to

11:24:21 implement energy conservation practices such as LEED,

11:24:24 silver or the Florida building council recommendation

11:24:26 on all city projects and programs.

11:24:29 So I think I would support O it does say "or."

11:24:41 I think I would be in support of revising our ordinance

11:24:44 and I would maybe ask Mr. Shelby to work on that for

11:24:47 us, to just require LEED certification.

11:24:51 That's a motion.

11:24:52 >> Second.




11:24:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I am not going to support the

11:24:57 motion, if I may.

11:24:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The motion for workshop or to pass

11:25:02 it?

11:25:02 I don't think I want to pass it yet.

11:25:04 We need to talk about it.

11:25:05 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm asking him to come back with a

11:25:09 revision so we can talk about it.

11:25:11 So whatever you want to do -- I guess as a workshop.

11:25:14 Do we have to do it as a workshop?

11:25:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: July 15th when we are gone.

11:25:20 >>MARY MULHERN: Do it as a workshop.

11:25:24 >> To discuss all of the recommendations.

11:25:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, it's not on our agenda today.

11:25:29 What I would suggest is you think about it and bring it

11:25:31 up under new business if you want a workshop.

11:25:36 My goal is to get us out by 12 and you all are not

11:25:40 helping me today.

11:25:47 Did we move that item, item 50?

11:25:52 >>THE CLERK: You moved the motion to receive and file.

11:25:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.

11:25:56 Opposes?




11:25:56 Okay.

11:25:57 Item 51.

11:25:58 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: I'm sorry I wasn't in here, but I

11:26:04 asked Shirley.

11:26:05 She's not passed if you passed number 7 which was the

11:26:07 Spring Hill.

11:26:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.

11:26:09 That's done.

11:26:09 >>> Thank you.

11:26:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

11:26:13 51.

11:26:14 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Item 51 is a suggestion,

11:26:20 recommendation that we look at traffic calming measures

11:26:24 between MacDill and Bayshore on some of those

11:26:26 streets.

11:26:28 Council members, we have looked at that repeatedly.

11:26:31 We think that putting signs up there is not going to

11:26:34 stop cut-through traffic.

11:26:35 We can put some signs up, and try that during the

11:26:39 certain hours.

11:26:40 There's in a right turn during certain hours.

11:26:42 We have been out and melt with colonel Barnes and his




11:26:48 staff at MacDill Air Force Base.

11:26:50 They have a number of issues in the morning getting

11:26:51 folks into their gates.

11:26:53 They believe that they have about a 15 to 20-minute

11:26:56 time for the queue to get in which quite frankly isn't

11:26:59 the worst time sitting in a queue that we are aware of

11:27:04 around the city.

11:27:04 So we are going to continue working with them.

11:27:06 We have actually improved some things, adjusted the

11:27:10 timing of the lights there at MacDill and inner

11:27:13 bay, and that seems to have helped them a lot.

11:27:16 They have opened up the gate over at tanker way to

11:27:20 civilian vehicles as well as to construction equipment,

11:27:23 and that helps them a little bit.

11:27:25 We are also exploring -- they have got big construction

11:27:30 project, but they are telling us that they don't really

11:27:32 expect a bigger increase, a huge increase in numbers of

11:27:35 people coming in there.

11:27:36 So that's a good thing.

11:27:38 But again we will put up a couple signs on this no

11:27:44 right turn at certain times of the day, and see if that

11:27:47 helps the situation.




11:27:49 Again we'll watch and make sure we don't have people

11:27:51 doing lots of I turns and stuff and impacting the

11:27:54 citizens, but we'll see if we can't improve things on

11:27:56 that neighborhood for a little bit.

11:27:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We don't need to take action on that.

11:28:02 Okay.

11:28:03 Thank you; Mr. Daignault.

11:28:08 Item 53.

11:28:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe that's councilman Miranda's

11:28:12 issue.

11:28:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

11:28:14 Then we'll hold that up till he comes back.

11:28:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Number 54 is receive and file.

11:28:22 The report.

11:28:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to receive and file.

11:28:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

11:28:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor say Aye.

11:28:28 Opposes?

11:28:28 All right.

11:28:29 We'll have Mrs. Boyd's petition come back.

11:28:33 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You have an ordinance for first

11:28:34 reading.




11:28:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: On 54, Mr. Chairman, I appreciate

11:28:39 the motion.

11:28:39 I got an e-mail from Mr. Spearman, and I think you all

11:28:43 got the written report.

11:28:45 A month ago we pulled this item to discuss it because

11:28:47 they had a single source for jet fuel as a single

11:28:51 bidder and we went ahead and passed it because we were

11:28:54 in a bind and they said they needed the jet fuel and

11:28:57 couldn't hold them up.

11:28:58 But I subsequently found out that there are two vendors

11:29:00 that theoretically could provide -- that are providing

11:29:03 jet fuel to other companies at TIA.

11:29:08 And Greg said the last I heard from Greg was he said we

11:29:12 were going to contact them and see if they were

11:29:14 interested in bidding the next time we bid it.

11:29:16 I said, well, if they are, then we need to plug into

11:29:19 that.

11:29:19 So I wanted to pat council on the back a little bit.

11:29:25 We need to be diligent on these types of items.

11:29:27 And make sure that staff is dotting the Is and

11:29:33 crossing the Ts.

11:29:35 >>MARY MULHERN: Thanks for bringing that up.




11:29:37 I think Linda brought that up.

11:29:39 My question is that there's more than one pipeline.

11:29:41 Isn't there more than one pipeline?

11:29:43 We share it?

11:29:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The ordinance.

11:29:53 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: An ordinance approving a special

11:29:56 using permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales small

11:30:01 venue containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight and

11:30:04 not more than 14% by weight and wines regardless of

11:30:07 alcohol content beer and wine 2(APS) in sealed

11:30:11 containers for consumption off premises only at or from

11:30:15 that certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 3209

11:30:19 north 22nd street, Tampa, Florida, as more particularly

11:30:23 described in section 2 hereof, providing for repeal of

11:30:26 all ordinances in conflict, providing an effective

11:30:30 date.

11:30:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And that includes the one-year

11:30:33 conditional and the 10 p.m. no sale, I think it is.

11:30:36 Is that accurate?

11:30:36 >> Second.

11:30:40 >>REBECCA KERT: It is a one-year conditional in the

11:30:42 ordinance.




11:30:42 And the no sale after 10 p.m. is on the site plan.

11:30:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Seven days a week?

11:30:50 >>REBECCA KERT: Seven days a week.

11:30:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Sundays, too?

11:30:53 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just a reminder that this is back to

11:31:00 you on first reading, and this would not be adopted,

11:31:03 would not take effect until after the adoption of

11:31:06 public hearing in two weeks.

11:31:08 As long as the petitioner is aware of that as well.

11:31:10 >>MARY MULHERN: You are just saying this is first

11:31:13 reading, right?

11:31:14 I just wanted to say that since Mr. Miranda stepped

11:31:19 out, I hope he will be here in a year from now to

11:31:22 provide the institutional memory.

11:31:28 Who knows who will be here.

11:31:29 So it will be interesting to see when it comes up

11:31:31 again.

11:31:35 It's a whole new hearing.

11:31:38 Is that correct, Mrs. Kert?

11:31:42 >> Well, what is the policy of council after they go

11:31:49 off?

11:31:52 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Hags to be compensated for that.




11:31:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We couldn't go before county

11:32:01 commission, on council for two years or address

11:32:04 council.

11:32:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You can do it as a citizen as long

11:32:11 as you are not representing anybody.

11:32:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So if there are issues and problems, I

11:32:18 will personally come down and speak on this issue

11:32:20 against it.

11:32:32 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, would you support it if he --

11:32:34 you are not supporting it.

11:32:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion.

11:32:37 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

11:32:39 Opposes?

11:32:42 >>THE CLERK: I have Miller and Miranda voting no.

11:32:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

11:32:48 We are down to new business, I believe.

11:32:50 >>THE CLERK: Second reading on April 15th at 9:30

11:32:55 a.m.

11:32:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What time?

11:32:58 >>THE CLERK: 9:30.

11:32:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, Mrs. Boyd, you have to come back

11:33:03 again on the 15th.




11:33:04 >> 53.

11:33:07 >> Who is that gentleman?

11:33:09 That's your husband?

11:33:10 >>> Mr. Chairman, this is on the item related to

11:33:35 towing, and researching that issue at the request of

11:33:39 council, what I have given, had Mr. Shelby didn't is

11:33:44 something that has a starting point to work on we

11:33:48 thought would be possible to address the issue that was

11:33:52 articulated about not essential towing, being towed to

11:33:58 a particular location, unsecured, left there while

11:34:01 additional vehicles are towed before taken to the

11:34:04 state-approved secure lot.

11:34:07 And it does appear to be an issue being wrestled with

11:34:15 out throughout the city.

11:34:16 We could require that it be taken directly to the

11:34:19 secured state licensed lot, should address that

11:34:23 corralling issue.

11:34:25 What we would recommend is before council take action

11:34:28 on it, if it's all right with you all to circulate that

11:34:31 to the towing industry, the PTC, other effective folks,

11:34:35 to make sure that it fits with the currents regulatory

11:34:39 scheme as well, and in addition, there is a local bill




11:34:43 moving through the legislature that would allow the PTC

11:34:46 to directly regulate these non-essential towing

11:34:50 operations from private property.

11:34:51 We think that would additionally help, and we want to

11:34:54 make sure that anything we do is consistent with what

11:34:56 we expect to be the new authority for the PTC.

11:34:59 >> I like what you said.

11:35:06 I'm not opposed to passing it and let the whole

11:35:11 industry look at it because it says just take it to

11:35:13 your property that you own that's under surveillance

11:35:19 cameras so nobody can gob in, but don't dump them in

11:35:23 the neighborhood like has been done in the past in many

11:35:26 instances.

11:35:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, is it council's

11:35:31 pleasure then to have this put on for first reading at

11:35:33 a future date when you get a report back from the city

11:35:37 attorney after distributing it?

11:35:39 Or do you want to have a tentative date on the docket

11:35:42 now?

11:35:42 However you wish to do it.

11:35:44 Or do you wish to bring it up on your own?

11:35:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If I can continue to speak, I think




11:35:50 we set it up for first date on first reading whatever

11:35:53 time is necessary to notify those in the wrecker

11:35:57 business, and those in the towing business, and those

11:36:00 in the PTC what's coming.

11:36:03 And I'm just trying to be fair with all of them.

11:36:08 So if we can settle a date I would be so appreciative.

11:36:11 >> Maybe appropriate the first meeting in May would

11:36:13 give us roughly 30 days to make those --

11:36:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's a motion.

11:36:21 Moved and seconded.

11:36:22 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

11:36:24 Opposes?

11:36:25 Is that it?

11:36:29 Okay.

11:36:29 Then we'll move to new business.

11:36:32 Councilman Dingfelder.

11:36:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Chairman, I saw the memo from

11:36:40 Mrs. Wise as related to council's budget.

11:36:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I was going to bring that up but go

11:36:44 ahead.

11:36:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, I'll follow your leaders

11:36:46 around as always.




11:36:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Go ahead.

11:36:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I just wanted to see where we were

11:36:53 going to chat about it, workshop it.

11:36:55 I think there are probably some items in there that we

11:36:57 can tweak and spend a little less.

11:37:01 And maybe there's items that we need to spend a little

11:37:03 more.

11:37:04 >> Well, I met with the mayor on that, and what she

11:37:08 suggested to all, what they are doing is rolling back

11:37:11 to the 2009 budget level, because you have the action

11:37:14 on that now.

11:37:16 Which means that as you can see there, you rolled out

11:37:20 in 2009, you will be saving approximately a little over

11:37:24 $20,000 so I said to the mayor I don't think council

11:37:26 has a problem rolling back to the 2009.

11:37:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think the net effect is good.

11:37:33 I think we should cut our budget just like we ask all

11:37:36 the other departments to cut there's.

11:37:39 I saw on communications services that we have a budget

11:37:43 in the neighborhood of $600,000 depending on the year

11:37:46 and I asked what that's related to, and somebody said,

11:37:49 well, we have four fax lines coming in, and we have




11:37:53 several cell phones that are dedicated to City Council.

11:37:55 I didn't know that because I don't have a City Council

11:37:59 phone number.

11:38:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I don't have one.

11:38:01 Don't want one.

11:38:02 >>MARY MULHERN: Does anybody have a City Council cell

11:38:06 phone?

11:38:06 You do?

11:38:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But, anyway, I am not going to get

11:38:13 into individual whether they want one or not.

11:38:16 But as related total four fax lines, we don't need four

11:38:19 fax lines.

11:38:20 Nobody faxes things anyway.

11:38:21 So if we have one fax line for the whole office we

11:38:23 could probably save some money there.

11:38:25 Other than that I will leave it to your discretion,

11:38:27 Mr. Chairman.

11:38:27 >>MARY MULHERN: We could probably share a fax line

11:38:32 between the main number for City Council and fax.

11:38:34 We could look at that.

11:38:36 I don't know if that would be a problem for incoming

11:38:38 calls or not.




11:38:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman, since you brought it up

11:38:43 let me make a motion that we roll back to the 2009

11:38:45 action which is what the mayor is doing with her

11:38:47 departments, if you want to do that.

11:38:49 And then we can make those other adjustments we want to

11:38:52 when the budget is presented, or you can include it in

11:38:55 the motion, however you want to proceed.

11:38:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Right.

11:38:59 I will make that motion and ask, Mr. Chairman, to also

11:39:02 look into the communications service line item and see

11:39:05 if we can tweak that up as well.

11:39:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.

11:39:08 >>MARY MULHERN: I am going to look at this.

11:39:11 Thanks for looking a it the line items.

11:39:13 And I haven't reviewed it.

11:39:14 But I am going to give you some of my office budget

11:39:19 this year, but I am going to give whatever is left

11:39:22 after today back.

11:39:23 And I don't know.

11:39:25 I guess this is a question for Mr. Shelby.

11:39:28 Can I return that money and put it into -- back into

11:39:39 general funds?




11:39:41 To parks for scholarships?

11:39:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You can request it but that's an

11:39:45 administrative function, and of course they are not

11:39:48 bound by the request.

11:39:49 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.

11:39:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You have a question on the motion?

11:39:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just want to comment that I want

11:39:54 to give some of my travel money to a staff person that

11:39:57 needed to go to a conference, and then the

11:39:59 administration wouldn't allow it.

11:40:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's a motion.

11:40:03 Yes, sir.

11:40:05 Councilman Miranda.

11:40:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Things come around and go around

11:40:10 but in '07 I said I don't want no travel money.

11:40:14 I don't want no cell phone.

11:40:16 I don't want no computer.

11:40:19 I don't want anything.

11:40:23 I just want to be able to function as I do and answer

11:40:27 the many thousands -- and the books are there if you

11:40:31 want to look at them that have called.

11:40:33 I'm so happy to see this change is coming.




11:40:37 In 2008, I didn't take the 2.8% increase in salary.

11:40:41 I gave it back.

11:40:42 Right back to the general fund.

11:40:45 Where the travel money went.

11:40:47 2009, I saw things getting worse.

11:40:51 Of us can live with less.

11:40:53 I gave back another percent.

11:40:57 And I haven't decided what I am going to do this year

11:40:59 yet.

11:41:00 But I can tell you one thing.

11:41:05 We have to look beyond the offices that we hold.

11:41:10 I'm looking at making recommendation that next week of

11:41:15 combining city clerk's office and City Council's

11:41:17 office, so I'm not trying to fire anyone, to suspend

11:41:25 anyone, to do any of that stuff.

11:41:27 But the people that are going to retire in the next

11:41:30 calendar year or so, not have those positions filled.

11:41:35 I don't know what it takes, but these ideas that have

11:41:39 been coming in my mind, that we take shots where we

11:41:46 can, but we haven't taken any hits ourselves.

11:41:50 But what I am saying is that it's time that we make

11:41:53 recommendation, and maybe within the next two weeks,




11:41:59 bring it to the chair, and let's have a discussion on

11:42:02 what we may want to do or may not want to do.

11:42:06 I can't tell you what we may do or may not want to do.

11:42:11 I'm very fortunate -- it doesn't take much to keep me

11:42:14 going.

11:42:15 But I may be an exception to the rule.

11:42:20 So I'm not asking anybody to do what I do.

11:42:22 I'm saying be cognizant of the time, realize the

11:42:27 situation the city is in, we have had things happen

11:42:31 here.

11:42:32 I don't want to go into -- it's not about

11:42:35 personalities.

11:42:36 It's about money.

11:42:39 And we continue to lose revenue, because of the

11:42:44 reduction that we are in now.

11:42:48 In my estimation, employment is much higher than 12%.

11:42:52 You may have another 5% that quit looking for work.

11:42:55 And how many of those that were making 100, 150,000 are

11:42:59 now working for 30 and 4thdown thousand. Some he

11:43:02 those are the underemployed.

11:43:04 I would think if you look up all the numbers you are

11:43:07 20%.




11:43:08 These are not good times.

11:43:10 And I think the good old days are gone.

11:43:17 I think you will have an improvement of some sort in

11:43:19 the next four, five, six years.

11:43:21 In fact there, was an article written, I think it was

11:43:23 the "St. Pete Times."

11:43:25 I'm not here to qualify newspaper writings or

11:43:29 editorials or anything of that nature.

11:43:31 But it said, if you want to go from 9.7% -- and I only

11:43:36 read it once -- back down to 5% unemployed, it would

11:43:42 take 272,000 new jobs in this country every month until

11:43:51 the year 2015.

11:43:56 I don't think we are going to attain that.

11:43:59 That's just me speaking.

11:44:00 What's happening is you have the only ones that can

11:44:07 create jobs are the government.

11:44:12 In the public service sector.

11:44:13 No company is going to hire more people when whatever

11:44:15 they are making is not being sold.

11:44:17 So we are fooling ourselves.

11:44:20 You have to create jobs and the infrastructure of this

11:44:23 country that is crumbling or has crumbled way beyond




11:44:28 the needs and necessity of the repair of whatever it

11:44:31 is, bridge, road and so forth.

11:44:32 So I am going stop there, chairman, on that one.

11:44:35 Thank you for that.

11:44:36 Then I'll make a motion when I get to my part on new

11:44:40 business.

11:44:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion.

11:44:41 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

11:44:45 Opposes?

11:44:45 And that motion is by councilman Dingfelder that we

11:44:47 roll our budget back to the 2009 level, also included

11:44:50 in that that the chair will take a look at the fax line

11:44:53 and --

11:44:55 >> communication.

11:44:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Communication and fax line.

11:44:57 >> Did you want to have a discussion?

11:45:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: A motion in two weeks.

11:45:05 I didn't make that motion.

11:45:08 To possibly consolidate the clerk's official and City

11:45:10 Council's office all in one.

11:45:13 In fact, we work like brothers and sisters hand in hand

11:45:16 all the time.




11:45:17 We never had a problem with it.

11:45:19 And maybe this is an opportunity to review how we are

11:45:23 structured.

11:45:23 That's all I'm saying.

11:45:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We all received a letter from

11:45:33 T.H.A.N. as related to our zoning process.

11:45:37 And I would like for us to have this discussion about

11:45:42 the possibility of extending the number of minutes that

11:45:45 the neighborhood of record gets during a rezoning

11:45:50 hearing or land use hearing.

11:45:51 So I'm not really sure what the appropriate -- it

11:45:54 obviously would be a potential change in our zoning

11:45:57 code, so I'm not really sure what the appropriate

11:45:59 process would be as related to that.

11:46:03 Direct Cathy Coyle.

11:46:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That would be a council rule for

11:46:10 rezonings.

11:46:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's not in our -- okay.

11:46:15 So let's figure out the best process to go ahead and

11:46:17 have that discussion with the neighborhoods, with the

11:46:22 development community, and with ourselves.

11:46:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We have a workshop on April 22nd at




11:46:30 nothing at 10:00.

11:46:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 22nd?

11:46:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: 11:00, yes.

11:46:35 The 22nd.

11:46:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: At 10:00 is the digital billboards.

11:46:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We could make this 11:00.

11:46:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: My understanding is we didn't want to

11:46:47 put anything, as I recall, I thought the digital

11:46:50 billboards, that would be extensive.

11:46:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Chairman, we don't have an

11:46:56 evening meeting that night so we could make this at

11:46:58 1:30.

11:47:01 Just a thought, folks.

11:47:01 >>MARY MULHERN: This is a workshop?

11:47:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes, just a workshop.

11:47:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: A potential person who comes here

11:47:12 to bring something to council has 15 minutes, is that

11:47:14 correct?

11:47:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: A petitioner.

11:47:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 15 minutes.

11:47:21 And then five minutes rebuttal.

11:47:22 You may have persons from T.H.A.N. or the neighborhood,




11:47:25 there can be 20 of them.

11:47:27 They can have 60 minutes, three minutes each.

11:47:30 Am I correct?

11:47:31 >>GWEN MILLER: And plus their ten.

11:47:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And you also have --

11:47:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm just saying where it is.

11:47:40 If you have a problem with that, let me know.

11:47:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: My suggestion will be that we look at

11:47:44 scheduling for workshop discussion, okay?

11:47:47 >>MARY MULHERN: Can I make a recommendation?

11:47:49 Because I am going to ask for another workshop and

11:47:51 there's almost nothing on June 17th.

11:47:54 And I don't think this is urgent, is it?

11:47:56 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I can, I am trying to recall the

11:47:58 letter.

11:47:59 I believe it may be related to -- and you have the

11:48:02 letter in front of you, Mr. Dingfelder.

11:48:04 I referenced quasi-judicial hearings.

11:48:08 And amending the rules.

11:48:09 But this may be something where you allow 30 minutes at

11:48:11 the workshops.

11:48:13 For instance, you have the 10:00 workshop on April 22nd




11:48:17 regarding the digital billboard ordinance, and the

11:48:19 question was whether T.H.A.N. wanted to be able to

11:48:22 address council for ten minutes at workshops.

11:48:26 Was that only -- only for rezonings?

11:48:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It was rezoning.

11:48:34 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Okay.

11:48:36 I just wanted to be clear on that.

11:48:37 Because if you schedule that --

11:48:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 17th.

11:48:44 That's a motion?

11:48:46 Who made the motion?

11:48:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That would be my motion.

11:48:51 >> Second.

11:48:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor say Aye.

11:48:54 Opposes?

11:48:55 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 9 a.m. on the 17th.

11:48:58 >>MARY MULHERN: I had a couple of things.

11:49:01 One, I would like to ask for a report from Karen Palus,

11:49:06 Parks Department, at our next regular meeting, which is

11:49:08 the -- the 15th.

11:49:14 On the 15th on what the department is doing to

11:49:22 rescue the programming, the after-school and summer




11:49:26 programming.

11:49:30 What, if anything, they are doing to address the public

11:49:33 --

11:49:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me just speak to that.

11:49:36 When I suggested moving to another day we already

11:49:38 reviewed with the clerk's office that had a heavy,

11:49:41 heavy agenda all day on the 15th.

11:49:44 That's the organization meeting.

11:49:47 And now 16 public hearings.

11:49:51 You have two appeals that you have.

11:49:55 >> And then at the next meeting which would be, I

11:50:01 guess, May 6th.

11:50:05 It's a long way off.

11:50:07 May 6th.

11:50:07 >> Moved and seconded.

11:50:09 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

11:50:11 Opposes?

11:50:11 >>MARY MULHERN: And then I would like to propose a

11:50:14 workshop also on June 17th, say at ten, to discuss

11:50:20 the recommendations of the mayor's TECO citizens task

11:50:24 force on energy.

11:50:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: When is that?




11:50:27 >>MARY MULHERN: June 17th.

11:50:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: June 17th.

11:50:33 And second.

11:50:33 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.

11:50:35 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

11:50:37 Opposes?

11:50:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We can hold onto this so we don't

11:50:42 have to print it out again.

11:50:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anything else?

11:50:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: In a noncontroversial way, some

11:50:48 time back I made a motion about individuals like myself

11:50:51 who may want to run for office and resign.

11:50:56 If I was to leave and come back, I don't think that's

11:50:59 right to the taxpayers who elected me.

11:51:02 So since therein might be a possibility that I might be

11:51:05 leaving, I would like to ask the legal department

11:51:12 director or their staff to make an ordinance, bring it

11:51:14 back in two weeks, that if you are a sitting member of

11:51:18 this government and you choose to leave to run for

11:51:20 another office, that you are certainly not allowed to

11:51:24 run for office, that's not the intent, but that you

11:51:27 have to wait one full four-year cycle to run for




11:51:31 office.

11:51:32 And I would like to have that change, if that's a

11:51:36 charter to the city, chapter to the city, code or

11:51:39 chapter to the city code.

11:51:41 So maybe I get a second.

11:51:44 Maybe I get four votes.

11:51:45 Maybe I don't get anything like I did in 2007.

11:51:48 But at least it's there.

11:51:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Second.

11:51:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.

11:51:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I won't support that because I

11:51:59 really feel like it's up to the voters.

11:52:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's a motion.

11:52:05 Moved and second.

11:52:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I can.

11:52:09 I just had a very brief opportunity to talk with Mr.

11:52:12 Fletcher, but I believe the motion is to come back in

11:52:14 two weeks with an ordinance.

11:52:15 Just without coming to a conclusion at this time, a

11:52:19 part of that process will be to look at the proper

11:52:21 process for where that ordinance would go or whether

11:52:24 that requires a charter amendment, either way.




11:52:27 But you have something in two weeks.

11:52:30 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: We'll have something in two weeks

11:52:33 and resolve that issue.

11:52:34 Likely as Mr. Miranda indicated an ordinance, but we

11:52:36 will double check that issue.

11:52:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Come back April 15th.

11:52:43 >>MARY MULHERN: You don't think that would be a

11:52:48 charter change, or you don't know?

11:52:51 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: We researched it when this

11:52:53 originally came up some time ago.

11:52:54 I have not gone back and refreshed my memory so I would

11:52:57 just defer till we come back.

11:53:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 26th is fine.

11:53:03 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.

11:53:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And come back at that time for

11:53:07 discussion.

11:53:07 Is that what it is?

11:53:08 Or come back as an ordinance?

11:53:12 >>MARY MULHERN: Oh, I am not going to second an

11:53:13 ordinance.

11:53:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: An ordinance has to have two

11:53:18 readings.




11:53:18 >>MARY MULHERN: I take back my second.

11:53:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: A second?

11:53:26 >>GWEN MILLER: I already seconded it.

11:53:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

11:53:29 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

11:53:31 Opposes?

11:53:31 >>THE CLERK: Saul-Sena voting no and Dingfelder being

11:53:35 absent.

11:53:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, sir.

11:53:40 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: In discussion with Mr. Slater, we

11:53:44 have people --

11:53:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Miller.

11:53:51 >>GWEN MILLER: I have nothing.

11:53:52 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I have been in discussion where

11:53:54 Mr. Slater.

11:53:55 We have people putting signs up in parts of my

11:53:58 district.

11:54:00 They put them up.

11:54:01 Code takes them down and they are up again tomorrow.

11:54:04 And we can't be sending trucks out there with the men

11:54:08 picking these things up and they stick new ones.

11:54:11 We need some kind of penalty, if a sign is put up there




11:54:15 more than twice, there has to be some type of citation

11:54:17 that's going to cost them money.

11:54:21 Because it's not fair for us to be sending people out

11:54:24 picking these signs up, and four hours later the same

11:54:27 sign is back again.

11:54:29 Not the same sign but a duplicate.

11:54:32 And most of these signs have phone numbers on them.

11:54:35 It's either somebody selling something, for instance,

11:54:38 we just had this so-called furniture place where

11:54:43 Circuit City was.

11:54:44 They have been there for four months.

11:54:45 They got people out on the road holding signs, which is

11:54:49 permissible, plus they are putting signs on the road.

11:54:52 Which is not right.

11:54:53 Especially with the construction that's up there.

11:54:56 It's dangerous.

11:54:58 And if we can get legal to come back within 30 days

11:55:01 with some sort of an ordinance or whatever we need.

11:55:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have spoken to legal and they a

11:55:12 sure me it's way more complicated than what you think.

11:55:15 Wray suggest is you have a conversation with Mr.

11:55:16 Fletcher about it to explain why it's so complicated to




11:55:20 address.

11:55:20 Because when the signs are on public right-of-way --

11:55:27 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: They are on the right-of-way, the

11:55:29 road.

11:55:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.

11:55:31 But rather than take up time now.

11:55:33 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: That's why I said come back in 30

11:55:35 days.

11:55:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, he's requesting an ordinance but

11:55:37 we need to hear from legal.

11:55:39 I don't know whether that's legal or what.

11:55:41 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: These come up periodically.

11:55:44 The code enforcement under state law, we would cite the

11:55:47 property owner.

11:55:47 And since they are in the right-of-way we are the

11:55:50 property owner.

11:55:51 I did ask staff recently based on some comments from

11:55:54 some other council members to look to see if there's

11:55:57 any other avenues we can go through other than code

11:56:00 enforcement, and we are looking at that right now, some

11:56:04 creative potential options.

11:56:05 But frankly, I don't want to sound terribly optimistic




11:56:09 because the way that state statute is set up, we would

11:56:13 be citing ourselves and obviously that's not the

11:56:16 intent.

11:56:16 The intent is to whoever we think is putting up these

11:56:19 signs.

11:56:21 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Then maybe we need a stat statute

11:56:23 change because we can't have these people littering the

11:56:25 highway like they are doing.

11:56:27 It looks like a zoo out there.

11:56:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

11:56:33 The last item, I would like to add to the June agenda

11:56:37 the Tampa expressway authority, want to come and give

11:56:40 us an update on the conversion.

11:56:43 Lee Roy Selmon Expressway to an all electronic tolling.

11:56:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, did you want that at a

11:56:50 particular time?

11:56:50 Did you want that under staff reports at 10:30, or did

11:56:54 you want them at 9 a.m.?

11:56:58 >> All I know is they wanted an update council on that.

11:57:03 We can take it up under staff reports at 10:30.

11:57:13 Let's give them ten minutes.

11:57:15 Let's put it under staff report, first item, in the




11:57:17 first meeting in June, and give them ten minutes.

11:57:19 Okay?

11:57:20 That's my motion.

11:57:21 >> Second.

11:57:23 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.

11:57:24 All in favor of the motion say Aye.

11:57:26 Opposed,.

11:57:27 >> That's all I have.

11:57:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to receive and file.

11:57:32 >> So moved.

11:57:33 (Motion carried).

11:57:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public wish to address

11:57:36 council?

11:57:37 Anyone else?

11:57:38 Thank you, Mr. Michelini, for your sermon this morning.

11:57:44 We stand adjourned.

11:57:45



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