TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, April 1, 2010
9:00 a.m. session
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08:55:31 >> CHAIRMAN THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now
09:04:24 come to order.
09:04:25 The chair will yield to Joseph Caetano.
09:04:27 >> This morning our invocation is going to be given by
09:04:30 Mr. Steve Michelini.
09:04:33 Steve, thank you.
09:04:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Please stand and remain standing for
09:04:41 the pledge of allegiance.
09:04:43 >> We are your humble servants, to you the protector of
09:04:47 all things, the make of spiritual laws and powerful and
09:04:51 giving God.
09:04:51 There is no God like you in heaven or earth.
09:04:54 We ask that you grace and bless all those who appear
09:04:58 here today.
09:04:58 These are mighty issues that are coming before the
09:05:01 Tampa City Council, and we request through prayer your
09:05:05 guidance, your strength, your wisdom, understanding and
09:05:08 We ask that all clouds of confusion and
09:05:10 misunderstanding be lifted from their ears and their
09:05:14 Hear our petition, Dear Lord, for spiritual guidance
09:05:17 and understanding.
09:05:18 Give us the ability to instill hope, dispel fear,
09:05:22 empower the right, vanquish the wrong.
09:05:25 Protect our heavenly God-given environment, our
09:05:28 families, all of our men, women and their families who
09:05:31 protect us through their security and our safety.
09:05:35 May we walk in your ways, keep your commandments, be
09:05:39 near you, Dear God, that you may uphold the just causes
09:05:42 that come before this council, show mercy when deserved
09:05:43 and firmness when required to protect the innocent and
09:05:46 uphold the righteous.
09:05:47 Let it be known that all people that we are the
09:05:50 children of God, and those who are bearing witness
09:05:52 shall have the conviction for your guided path and the
09:05:54 insight to give fair decisions so we all may know
09:05:58 through the power of your might the strength and wisdom
09:06:00 of your ways and your guidance.
09:06:02 Praise to you, God, for providing the bountiful gifts
09:06:06 of the earth and all that are we live upon it for the
09:06:08 waters and the sea and all that live under it, And for
09:06:11 the heavens above and all the good within it.
09:06:13 May your blessings be bestowed upon those present today
09:06:16 and those who will appear before this governing board
09:06:19 in all of its deliberations, provide us with all of the
09:06:22 hope that we require, the faith and desire and the
09:06:24 fortitude to prevail.
09:06:26 We ask that you hear our word, uphold the righteous,
09:06:29 lift us from despair and instill hope.
09:06:31 We ask that you never allow our faith to falter in
09:06:35 adversity or weaken in conflict.
09:06:36 Provide us with the strength to endure through
09:06:38 difficult times. In your name, through God's grace,
09:06:41 (Pledge of Allegiance)
09:06:44 >>GWEN MILLER: We'll have roll call.
09:07:04 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
09:07:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
09:07:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:07:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:07:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
09:07:17 We have several --
09:07:26 >>THE CLERK: Mr. Chairman, you do have the minutes to
09:07:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to approve the minutes.
09:07:30 >> second.
09:07:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor? Opposes? Okay.
09:07:39 We have several ceremonial items we would like to make
09:07:46 First to the Executive Director of the Aviation
09:07:47 Authority, Mr. Louis Miller, followed by councilman
09:07:53 Charlie Miranda.
09:08:02 I am going to ask Mr. Miller and his wife to come.
09:08:15 Also a presentation of the Drew Park CRA, if they will
09:08:20 They also wanted to come and make a presentation.
09:08:22 Council, as we said a few weeks ago, that Mr. Miller
09:08:25 has served this community well since 1996, and he has
09:08:32 really, really worked hard at the Aviation Authority.
09:08:36 I served on the board for five years, five consecutive
09:08:39 years as a county commissioner.
09:08:41 I served as secretary-treasurer there, and had an
09:08:45 opportunity to work with him for five years.
09:08:47 I will tell you that this man, Mr. Louis Miller, served
09:08:51 well this community, served well the Aviation
09:08:54 Authority, and as you know, consistently and continued
09:08:58 to rank Tampa International Airport in the top three.
09:09:04 So certainly we do want to commend him today and
09:09:07 recognize him for his many contributions to the City of
09:09:10 Tampa, not only to the City of Tampa but to the entire
09:09:16 And he is recognized not only in Tampa but throughout
09:09:18 the nation and international for the work that he has
09:09:21 done at Tampa International Airport.
09:09:26 Certainly today he is very much deserving of this
09:09:28 commendation of City Council, and others that will
09:09:34 So, council, thank you for voting and supporting to
09:09:38 recognize him on this day and to present this
09:09:43 It says: Presented to Louis Miller has served as
09:09:47 Executive Director of the Tampa International Airport
09:09:51 and three general aviation airports, Tampa city and
09:09:55 Tampa executive, since July 1996, active in the
09:09:59 community has served on numerous boards, Tampa Bay
09:10:04 partnership, metropolitan planning organization,
09:10:06 greater Tampa Chamber of Commerce, Westshore alliance,
09:10:11 treasurer, airports council international, and
09:10:14 president of Florida airport council, 1994 he was
09:10:18 elected chairman of the North America region of the of
09:10:21 the airport council international.
09:10:24 Throughout these years, he has received awards,
09:10:27 recognition from outstanding public administration to
09:10:30 tourism, person of the year, the Herman Goldner award
09:10:36 for regional leadership, spirit award for leadership
09:10:39 and advancing the spirit of affirmative action, good
09:10:45 government award, good neighbor award, family award --
09:10:51 the list goes on and on that speaks well of your
09:10:54 contributions, what you have done in this community,
09:10:56 and internationally.
09:10:58 So for his many years of service, citizens of the City
09:11:03 of Tampa, Tampa City Council does hereby commend and
09:11:05 recognize his dedication and hard work of Lewis E.
09:11:10 Miller signed by all seven members of City Council
09:11:12 presented this first day of April 2010.
09:11:16 And so with that, Mr. Miller, we would like to present
09:11:20 this to you, and also, I believe, the CRA and Drew Park
09:11:24 has another presentation they would like to give you.
09:11:27 And again, you have been a great gentleman, a great
09:11:31 executive, great administrator to this area, and thank
09:11:35 you that I had five years to work with you and see your
09:11:38 work firsthand in this community.
09:11:41 [ Applause ]
09:11:48 >>> I'm Marissa Shertiza.
09:11:54 Mr. Miller has been active with the CRA since 2008,
09:12:02 part of the strategic planning, guiding us, setting us
09:12:04 on our way to be the great committee that I believe we
09:12:06 are with we are today.
09:12:09 His knowledge and expertise was very helpful to help us
09:12:13 form a lot of our plans.
09:12:15 We especially appreciate his vision of him and his
09:12:23 Air Cargo Road, the last time I was here I mentioned
09:12:26 how beautiful it is, and you went way past beyond what
09:12:29 was expected.
09:12:30 And I know it took a lot of work.
09:12:34 We appreciate it.
09:12:35 We recognize it.
09:12:37 We are thankful because it's actually a gift to Drew
09:12:39 Park, not only to Drew Park but to the City of Tampa,
09:12:42 and it's absolutely beautiful.
09:12:48 We don't want to the say we are going to miss you
09:12:50 because we hope you are still going to be with us.
09:12:53 And I want to take a moment to say that I witnessed
09:12:56 this gentleman in our meetings, and I witnessed the
09:12:58 passion and the love that he had towards the project
09:13:03 and what he wanted to leave behind as a gift to Drew
09:13:06 Park and to the City of Tampa.
09:13:08 And I want you to know we felt it and we recognize it
09:13:11 and we know that you did it with a lot of love.
09:13:14 In recognition of your years of this service with us,
09:13:18 we are going to present you with a little token so that
09:13:21 you remember us, and hopefully, like I said, you will
09:13:25 still be part of us.
09:13:29 [ Applause ]
09:13:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I don't know if council wants to
09:13:41 express any comments at this time followed by Mr.
09:13:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just want to thank you
09:13:47 specifically for the project that you have undertaken
09:13:50 that have added to the beauty of our community and
09:13:54 specifically the airport.
09:13:56 You have done public art, extensive landscaping, you
09:14:01 partnered with the City of Tampa to expand the
09:14:03 reclaimed water, to enhance the landscaping, and also
09:14:07 using our resources more carefully, as well as of
09:14:10 course Cargo Road and the beauty of the different
09:14:14 I think outstanding architecture is something that we
09:14:17 value in this community and something that our visitors
09:14:19 And by selecting wonderful architects and public art,
09:14:24 it just makes the experience of for all of us at the
09:14:29 airport as a very high quality experience that's
09:14:33 memorable, that by its very attractiveness markets us
09:14:37 to our community as well as the world.
09:14:39 And I want to thank you for always valuing that and
09:14:41 investigate investing in it.
09:14:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
09:14:49 If I can call you Lou wigs.
09:14:51 The progress that you made at the airport, your
09:14:54 improvements of recognition that you have made not only
09:14:57 for the airport but for the city are enormous.
09:15:04 When you made your extension into Drew Park it was
09:15:06 received very well, because you did it in a humanely
09:15:10 Air Cargo Road is, believe it or not, hundreds of
09:15:15 people, maybe thousands of people money.
09:15:17 Now why?
09:15:19 You don't even realize what you did.
09:15:21 You changed the speed limit and requested the city to
09:15:24 request change the speed limit from 35 to 45 because
09:15:28 it's an open, beautiful, double-lane road that looks
09:15:32 like it's going to go to someplace beautiful, and is.
09:15:36 But you guys what you have done there, all of you in
09:15:41 your department, and that's an entrance into Drew Park
09:15:43 that will for many years help Drew Park convey itself
09:15:47 and reinvent itself.
09:15:48 And I applaud you and your family for doing such.
09:15:52 And I apologize for taking down that.
09:16:00 Thank you very much.
09:16:02 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Miller, I want to thank you
09:16:03 for everything you have done.
09:16:04 I think you have done an outstanding job and you will
09:16:06 be missed.
09:16:09 Thank you.
09:16:09 >>GWEN MILLER: They have said everything.
09:16:15 But it's a blessing to do the things that he said.
09:16:24 And I am going to miss you.
09:16:27 But you have to be at the airport so we can get
09:16:29 together again because I love working with you.
09:16:32 >> Mr. Miller: I really appreciate the opportunity
09:16:38 over the past 14 years to work with the City Council.
09:16:40 The City Council has been very cooperative and
09:16:42 supportive of what we have done with the city.
09:16:45 Mrs. Saul-Sena mentioned the reclaimed water from the
09:16:47 airport, that Davis Island we've getting the Peter O.
09:16:51 Knight airport, with giving some land back to the city
09:16:55 so they can use it for dog parks and use it for other
09:16:57 things, and just working cooperatively.
09:17:00 The city has a great staff.
09:17:01 And council members have done a great job, and
09:17:03 employees that worked for me are really what made it
09:17:06 I have been fortunate enough to be the one that was the
09:17:08 CEO, but I have 600 quality employees that make things
09:17:12 work and I want to say thank you very much to all of
09:17:14 you and I really appreciate this.
09:17:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We appreciate you.
09:17:20 [ Applause ]
09:17:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Before I make this commendation,
09:17:50 presentation, I want to say that the best thing about
09:17:53 Brad Baird is his son.
09:17:59 Never expect a fast ball from me because I only threw
09:18:02 them for home runs but Brad Baird's sons is one of the
09:18:09 leading pole vaulters in the State of Florida.
09:18:14 At my alma mater Jefferson he did 14-7.
09:18:20 So but the man can really pole vault.
09:18:25 And I would say by the end of this track season he will
09:18:28 be pole vaulting 15 feet which is an enormous height
09:18:32 for a high school -- he's a junior, right?
09:18:36 Keep him away from my granddaughters.
09:18:41 This from Tampa City Council to all the employees of
09:18:43 the water department for the outstanding job that you
09:18:47 have done, all of you, and it says Tampa City Council
09:18:51 supports the efforts of your department to conserve
09:18:54 water, along with the mayor's proclamation, making
09:19:00 April water wise.
09:19:03 And that means a lot.
09:19:04 Because that means the more water we save, the less
09:19:06 money we have to spend.
09:19:07 And so we are caught in a bind.
09:19:10 But Brad and his department have done an outstanding
09:19:14 Sandra Anderson has done an outstanding job.
09:19:17 We have gone from 2200 customers in reclaimed water to
09:19:21 a little over 4,000.
09:19:23 So it's getting there.
09:19:25 It takes some time, a little longer to do.
09:19:28 But things that are easy are done quickly.
09:19:30 Things that are more difficult takes a little bit more
09:19:36 On behalf of Tampa City Council for you and your
09:19:38 employees, we presents you this plaque and we really
09:19:40 appreciate all of you for the work that all of you have
09:19:42 done 24-7, 365, over 600,000 people, 211 square miles.
09:19:51 >>BRAD BAIRD: Very good.
09:19:52 Very good.
09:19:52 Thank you.
09:19:58 Thank you, City Council.
09:19:59 I want to remind everyone that a year ago about this
09:20:02 time we were in a severe drought.
09:20:04 Times have changed in one year.
09:20:07 But one year ago, our reservoir was low.
09:20:12 Today it's several hundred million gallons of water
09:20:16 going over that dam.
09:20:19 A year ago, we saved 1.27 billion gallons of water in
09:20:24 the water conservation efforts, thanks to your actions,
09:20:32 and the staff behind me, they are responsible for the
09:20:35 water conservation that was achieved, and thanks most
09:20:38 of all to the citizens of Tampa for stepping up,
09:20:43 listening to you, listening to the water department on
09:20:46 how to conserve water, and they really did.
09:20:48 They stepped up and saved a historical amount of water
09:20:55 for the city.
09:20:56 So thank you to all, to you and to the citizens and to
09:20:59 our staff that made it happen.
09:21:03 [ Applause ]
09:21:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Before we move to review of the
09:21:18 agenda, public comment, one last presentation to make
09:21:20 to Councilwoman Linda Saul-Sena for ten years of
09:21:27 I know you have been around longer than that.
09:21:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's ten on top of another --
09:21:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I was going to say I thought you had
09:21:35 been around 25 or 30.
09:21:36 He has been around 50.
09:21:39 So congratulations on receiving your ten-year pin.
09:21:46 [ Applause ]
09:21:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We'll/review of the agenda at this
09:21:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Good morning.
09:21:55 In front of you you have the addendum of today's
09:21:59 You have one off-agenda item that I would like to ask
09:22:01 council to address in its motion.
09:22:03 Next week, you have a presentation set for a particular
09:22:12 I believe that's the global date.
09:22:18 There is not going to be a presentation made at council
09:22:21 so I would like to request the date be removed from the
09:22:24 agenda, that item be removed from the agenda.
09:22:27 Thank you.
09:22:27 Also, council, you have a substitution on item 44,
09:22:35 Julia Cole, second reading on zoning administrator,
09:22:39 changes to the review process.
09:22:41 That is going to have an effective date of June
09:22:44 1st, 2010, to allow for the process to be put in
09:22:48 place, so when the ordinance does take effect, there is
09:22:53 processes that will support that.
09:22:55 Also, council, items number 39 and 40 are being asked
09:23:01 to be removed.
09:23:02 I believe it's by council member Mulhern for staff
09:23:05 report, to have staff present for that.
09:23:09 Item 49 is a memorandum from Karen Palus,
09:23:13 administration to appear regarding the Davis Islands
09:23:17 park improvement fund.
09:23:18 They are requesting a two-week continuance.
09:23:20 She's unable to attend today.
09:23:23 In review of the agenda, Chairman Scott has noted that
09:23:26 the April 15th agenda is very heavy, so he is
09:23:29 suggesting that that be for May 6th if that is
09:23:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a quick question about that.
09:23:35 When I heard about this I asked if they had contacted
09:23:38 the Davis Island civic association people who brought
09:23:40 this to their attention so that they wouldn't be
09:23:43 showing up assuming that they would have a chance ton
09:23:45 speak on it.
09:23:45 >> I permanently don't know.
09:24:02 And if you wish to have a report.
09:24:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would rather have a real person,
09:24:06 but I just don't wants the neighborhood folks coming
09:24:08 down and expecting a presentation.
09:24:11 So I just needed some reassurance that indeed they had
09:24:14 contacted the neighborhood people and told them that
09:24:15 it's going to be put off. We don't know. I would like
09:24:15 to keep it on to see if anybody shows up. And if you
09:24:15 want to do it at the beginning of May --
09:24:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What we could do, the administration
09:24:40 is not going to show. We can ask the administration to
09:24:42 make calls to the neighbors.
09:24:44 >> The people who wrote the letter asking questions.
09:24:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And let them know it's not going to be
09:24:46 on the agenda, it's going to be continued to May
09:24:49 6th, and we'll continue throughout the morning,
09:24:51 maybe stretch it through the meeting.
09:24:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'll ask my assistant to contact.
09:24:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: So then the motion would be then to
09:25:00 place it on the May 6th agenda of staff reports.
09:25:03 Thank you.
09:25:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
09:25:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You also have a memorandum from the
09:25:07 city attorney regarding item number 52, and that would
09:25:12 be the recommendation, council, to have that item which
09:25:16 relates to the investigation at the MacKay Bay
09:25:20 That be removed from the agenda and not discussed
09:25:26 Also, council, there is a request by Chairman Scott
09:25:31 that when these items come up to highlight items number
09:25:34 7, 31 and 35, and I believe we'll do that at this time
09:25:38 at that time.
09:25:41 I believe that is it.
09:25:42 I am not aware of any other changes to today's agenda
09:25:45 and I present it to you for your approval.
09:25:47 Thank you.
09:25:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Are we supposed to vote on the
09:25:53 chairman today?
09:25:55 >> No, that's the 15th.
09:25:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It's in the city charter.
09:25:59 I'm sure it is.
09:25:59 I know that this is in the city charter.
09:26:02 I see Chip Fletcher sitting in the back row.
09:26:04 I think we need to double check.
09:26:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe it's in the year of an
09:26:08 election it's held on the 1st.
09:26:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Always held on the first.
09:26:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And per council's rules, my
09:26:16 understanding is that it's held on the first regular
09:26:18 meeting after April 1st.
09:26:23 >>SAL TERRITO: Legal department.
09:26:24 You are correct on the charter provision.
09:26:25 That deals with when you have a change in office every
09:26:28 four years.
09:26:29 And I looked at the same thing, had the same question
09:26:31 you did, and it's somewhat ambiguous in your rule it
09:26:34 says the first meeting after April 1st.
09:26:41 So April 1st is the first meeting so you could have
09:26:43 done it today if you wished, but the way it's written
09:26:46 is somewhat ambiguous.
09:26:48 So there's nothing improper about not having it today
09:26:51 and having it on the 15th.
09:26:53 But maybe it should be addressed in your rules to say
09:26:56 on April 1st or the first meeting thereafter.
09:26:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That wouldn't require a charter
09:27:02 That's a clarification.
09:27:04 Frankly, I think humor involved is always appreciated.
09:27:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, when I came over, I was told
09:27:11 it's always on April 1st, first meeting in April,
09:27:14 or April 1st, because when I was first sworn in, we
09:27:17 had the April 1st.
09:27:20 So I was told that you don't have to have it.
09:27:25 Councilman Dingfelder.
09:27:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Linda, you are in good company.
09:27:28 I came in thinking the same thing this morning.
09:27:30 But, Mr. Chairman, if we could have a separate vote and
09:27:35 just pull out of committee not for staff reports a
09:27:39 separate vote on item 7.
09:27:43 Item 19.
09:27:46 And somebody was talking about the MacKay Bay.
09:27:51 Were they talking about item 24?
09:27:56 >>MARTIN SHELBY: No.
09:27:57 Item 52 is the item I was discussing which was relating
09:28:00 to news reports about investigation at the recycling.
09:28:11 Mr. Fletcher prepared a memorandum and the suggestion
09:28:12 is to remove it from the agenda pending this
09:28:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
09:28:17 I would like to pull 24 then for discussion during
09:28:22 staff report.
09:28:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Pull 7, 19 and 24.
09:28:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 7 and 19 for discussion and then 24
09:28:32 during staff report.
09:28:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other items need to be pulled?
09:28:35 Okay, then, a motion to make all the changes including
09:28:39 the one that Ms. Saul-Sena made earlier.
09:28:42 I would like to roll that into -- that's just removing,
09:28:47 what is it, the national love day or whatever it is.
09:28:50 >> So moved.
09:28:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:28:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
09:28:58 At this time we take public comment.
09:28:59 Council rule is that we give the public opportunity to
09:29:01 speak first on items that are numbered.
09:29:04 So if anyone here wants to speak first on items that
09:29:07 are numbered on the agenda may come forward at this
09:29:10 Subsequent, any item on the agenda after that, or not
09:29:13 on the agenda, may be heard.
09:29:16 And so first anyone here to speak to items on the
09:29:19 agenda that's numbered.
09:29:24 Then we'll take public comment from any item.
09:29:28 State your name for the record.
09:29:29 You have three minutes.
09:29:29 >>> My name is Jason Rodriguez.
09:29:33 I am a member of district 4.
09:29:38 Despite last week's vote, obviously I went back and the
09:29:41 reason we are back is because we want to let the
09:29:44 council know, we want to let the Tampa Bay community,
09:29:48 the state, the world, everybody know that we are going
09:29:51 to remain vigilant to fight against discriminatory,
09:29:58 unjust and unnecessary practice of invocations, and
09:30:03 that we are here to fight this until we get the answers
09:30:05 we want.
09:30:06 So that's one reason that we are coming back right away
09:30:10 despite last week's vote.
09:30:12 One thing I did notice about last week's vote, it was
09:30:15 somewhat of a surprise, seemed to be an impromptu vote.
09:30:18 You don't know the entire story there.
09:30:20 But it seemed to be just a way to brush this issue to
09:30:25 the side and maintain status quo.
09:30:32 Seems to sweep it directly under the rug, and to
09:30:35 discard it, seemed like let's get rid of the problem
09:30:39 rather than resolve the problem.
09:30:40 That seemed to be what happened.
09:30:44 And the reason this is a huge issue is that it relates
09:30:47 to larger problems.
09:30:49 And here is what I mean by that.
09:30:52 There's a growing notion in our society that beliefs
09:30:57 and ideas should have rights just like people do, and
09:31:04 we are seeing this idea demonstrated in public schools,
09:31:07 even, and even in legislation.
09:31:11 For example, in public school classrooms, teachers are
09:31:16 pressured to -- they are pressured by parents and
09:31:19 administrators to give all ideas and opinions and
09:31:24 assertions that students make to treat them as equally
09:31:30 Councilwoman Miller, I know you had a career in
09:31:32 education, and perhaps you have encountered this in
09:31:35 your career.
09:31:39 We see the same kind of thing in proposed legislation
09:31:43 such as the anti-blasphemy law in Ireland.
09:31:51 If we were in Ireland right now I would possibly be
09:31:53 escorted out the door and fined and taken to jail,
09:31:56 because I'm expressing my views against a religion
09:32:00 practice in a government facility.
09:32:02 So that might sound like an extreme parallel, and I'm
09:32:08 not saying that you all are going to cause that to
09:32:11 But supporting this public prayer in this institution
09:32:20 does is, I think, it enables that kind of thinking, and
09:32:23 it allows the public to think that, well, there's
09:32:26 nothing wrong with having prayer in a government venue,
09:32:33 and this is the type of thinking that can eventually
09:32:37 lead to these type of laws.
09:32:44 So based on the vote at the last meeting, what you
09:32:48 declare to the public is that you endorse the
09:32:53 You say that government meetings are suitable venues
09:32:58 for performing religious rituals.
09:33:02 (Bell sounds)
09:33:05 I really ask you to consider --
09:33:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:33:08 Next speaker.
09:33:13 >> John Kieffer.
09:33:15 I'm the president of atheists of Florida and a resident
09:33:18 of Tampa.
09:33:18 I won't disclose my address due to the fact that I am
09:33:21 an atheist and I'm not much liked out there.
09:33:26 First of all, I would like to say happy April fool's
09:33:30 day, and as usual we continue to fool the public here
09:33:35 that there is a separation between church and state.
09:33:38 Church is very alive and well here in City Council.
09:33:41 The gavel comes down.
09:33:42 Everybody is asked to rise so that an individual from
09:33:46 the community usually a clergy can state something
09:33:49 about an abysmal alien that's supposed to be monitoring
09:33:54 our thoughts and influencing our actions.
09:33:57 As atheists we don't believe that.
09:33:59 You give me only two choices.
09:34:01 Again I will say this.
09:34:03 Either pretend to pray, in other words, to stand up and
09:34:06 be not be recognized as an atheist, or to remain seated
09:34:11 and be true to my world view, then I'm recognized by
09:34:14 not only you but also by the community.
09:34:16 Notice also that we are also on televised, the entire
09:34:21 If the camera pans into the community, into the
09:34:23 audience, they can see that I am a religious outsider.
09:34:28 It's none of their business.
09:34:30 Now, I am you very much a visible atheist.
09:34:37 In fact there's probably some up on the City Council.
09:34:40 And you are afraid to admit it.
09:34:41 There are people in the audience that are atheists and
09:34:44 basically concerned about admitting it.
09:34:45 I want to review with you some of the comments that
09:34:50 atheists that are afraid to come in here and speak.
09:34:53 We have two friends that are members of atheists of
09:34:58 Florida, attorneys.
09:34:59 I say, look, you feel strongly about this issue, why
09:35:01 don't you talk to us?
09:35:02 They are just starting up, they are brand new
09:35:04 attorneys, starting up their business, they are afraid
09:35:06 to come in here because they know of how their business
09:35:08 can be affected by outing themselves as atheists.
09:35:12 This is a very serious situation.
09:35:13 They are afraid to even come in here and speak, and one
09:35:18 lady, an attorney, spent an hour on the phone with me
09:35:23 trying to convince me on the tact to take with you.
09:35:27 And I said come in and do it.
09:35:29 She said, no, I can't, because my business would be
09:35:32 But I want to share with you some other comments.
09:35:36 This person here was afraid to come in and speak.
09:35:39 All my life I was cowed into pretending to respect
09:35:45 Unthinkable not to be.
09:35:47 Hard to get over this.
09:35:48 This individual is a retired individual, ten years in
09:35:51 the community.
09:35:52 Seen the work of the group leaders, atheists of
09:35:56 Florida, inspired me to be more open.
09:35:58 Another individual.
09:36:02 As an employee of the school board, speaking as an
09:36:06 atheist scares me given the condescending arrogance
09:36:11 shown by you continuing to incantation, prayer.
09:36:16 And it goes on.
09:36:18 Another one here was actually in the audience, slipped
09:36:21 me a card last time we were here.
09:36:23 Thanks for upholding the rights atheists.
09:36:28 Came in to see and support you.
09:36:30 So you can see that -- in fact there's one individual
09:36:34 here, this individual is a graduate of M.I.T.,
09:36:37 brilliant man.
09:36:38 I have lived and worked in the community for 33 years.
09:36:41 I have kept my atheist world view, a relative secret in
09:36:46 order to keep my job and customers.
09:36:49 At invocation and the like I go along to avoid
09:36:54 This is really a very serious civil rights issue.
09:36:57 There are people who are afraid to come in here and
09:37:00 talk to you about this.
09:37:01 And I think you ought to consider that.
09:37:03 These are Americans just like you.
09:37:06 We go to work.
09:37:08 We served our country, many of us.
09:37:11 I was in the military served in combat defending our
09:37:16 And you start your meetings with this religious ritual.
09:37:23 We ask you, why not just do a moment of reflection, a
09:37:26 moment of silence.
09:37:27 That's what the Hillsborough County school board does.
09:37:29 They do a moment of silence.
09:37:30 It's not asking too much.
09:37:32 We respect your religion.
09:37:34 I would actually fight and die if anybody stopped you
09:37:37 from praying or going to church or whatever.
09:37:40 But this is government.
09:37:42 There is a U.S. Constitution.
09:37:44 And you are infringing on my rights.
09:37:46 Thank you very much.
09:37:52 >> Good morning.
09:37:54 Frank Carl.
09:37:54 I came before you about two months ago, the only time I
09:37:58 have been before you speaking on this same issue.
09:38:01 I'm a victim of religious discrimination in the school
09:38:07 I had the audacity to write a letter of reprimand to my
09:38:11 principal for conducting a prayer in a school event
09:38:14 that I was required to attend.
09:38:20 She didn't really accuse me or fire me because of that,
09:38:23 but she gave me such low referrals after that, from
09:38:30 that day on, that I should have been fired right on the
09:38:34 spot if I had read them.
09:38:36 It's so bad now that I can't even get back my
09:38:39 substitute teaching job that I had before I went into
09:38:42 full-time teaching.
09:38:48 But you are supporting this type of discrimination by
09:38:50 having it occur before your meetings.
09:38:55 One thing I understand why you probably think a lot
09:39:03 about conducting a prayer, because I'm sure most of you
09:39:07 really believe it.
09:39:08 You are indoctrinated from the time you are probably
09:39:11 born that you have the only true religion.
09:39:17 Unfortunately, everybody that comes into this community
09:39:19 brings their religion with them.
09:39:20 You don't all have the same religion.
09:39:24 >>MORRIS MASSEY: Foreigners come in you are going to
09:39:25 have more and more diverse religion, you know,
09:39:29 religious background.
09:39:30 So it's not the only one.
09:39:34 The other thing I don't understand is why you feel so
09:39:37 insecure in your religion that you have to get a public
09:39:40 display of support before you can conduct your meeting.
09:39:47 That blows my mind.
09:39:49 You might say, to paraphrase a recent political ad, I'm
09:39:54 probably not one of you, I'm one of them.
09:39:57 Who is them?
09:39:59 Someone to be ignored, an outsider.
09:40:04 I don't like being one of "them."
09:40:07 I like to be one of us.
09:40:09 And you can't do that if you continue to support only a
09:40:13 religious community with your prayer.
09:40:17 You are reinforcing the concept of the majority is in
09:40:20 control and everybody else should conform.
09:40:24 So I really would like to have you reconsider having
09:40:29 prayer before City Council.
09:40:32 And you don't need them at all.
09:40:35 I have been to a meeting one day, an afternoon meeting,
09:40:40 with regular business, and the meeting went just fine.
09:40:45 It didn't need a prayer.
09:40:46 It's only to give you personal support, for some
09:40:49 reason, I don't know why.
09:40:51 If you are so Christian, I suggest that you follow your
09:40:53 own Bible which says pray in your own closet, for if
09:40:57 you do it in public, you have already received your
09:41:01 Thank you.
09:41:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
09:41:04 >> Good morning.
09:41:08 Robert Perry, Executive Director, atheists of Florida,
09:41:12 3614 south Manhattan Avenue here in Tampa.
09:41:16 And a lovely day out side.
09:41:18 It's beautiful.
09:41:19 Enjoyed the spring.
09:41:21 Hope you all do, too.
09:41:22 I want to express out by expressing my thanks to this
09:41:25 You have been very patient listening to us and we
09:41:27 appreciate that.
09:41:28 Two weeks ago, councilman Scott, Chairman Scott, you
09:41:31 welcomed atheists saying you recognize we have the same
09:41:35 free speech rights as all American citizens, as all
09:41:38 residents of Tampa, people who live, work, do business
09:41:41 in Tampa, and I appreciate that, and I want to
09:41:44 acknowledge it.
09:41:45 Because in this entire experience, it's easy to get
09:41:47 lost and mixed up and seeing the little things, like
09:41:54 Mr. Miranda said two weeks ago, don't want to get
09:41:57 involved in some game.
09:41:59 Of course not.
09:42:00 And I want to emphasize this is not a game.
09:42:04 Two weeks ago, after the City Council meeting, I was
09:42:07 contacted by a woman just out side Tampa who said that
09:42:10 she was given 30 days notice to get out of where she
09:42:14 She rents a room with someone.
09:42:16 The reason?
09:42:18 Her landlord said I cannot stand to rent to a
09:42:24 There are reasons people want to keep their religious
09:42:26 views private.
09:42:28 There are very important reasons.
09:42:30 And people should have the right to keep their
09:42:32 religious views private.
09:42:33 I'll share with you a personal fact.
09:42:35 I don't even know my grandmother's religion.
09:42:37 It doesn't come up in conversation.
09:42:39 And that's okay.
09:42:40 It's not an issue.
09:42:42 We have more important family connection.
09:42:45 And I think there are a lot of people in this town, in
09:42:48 this city, who don't want to push their religion on
09:42:52 They don't wants to push their non-religion.
09:42:55 And it doesn't have to be confrontational.
09:43:00 And certainly atheists of Florida don't want to
09:43:02 treat -- we are for atheists, yes, because there must
09:43:05 be a voice for atheists.
09:43:07 If we don't speak up for our rights, no one else will.
09:43:10 No one else has.
09:43:11 We have to.
09:43:12 But because we are for atheists doesn't mean we are
09:43:15 against anyone.
09:43:15 Now, I do want to point out that it's important to be
09:43:19 mention, this is not a temporary issue.
09:43:23 We are here to stay.
09:43:24 We have been silent for a long time but that's
09:43:27 It's not just we are speaking here at Tampa City
09:43:30 We are speaking to other City Commission meetings,
09:43:33 county commission meetings, but we will be active in
09:43:35 political campaigns.
09:43:36 I know several of you are running foyer office.
09:43:38 And I want you to talk to your advisors and let them
09:43:40 know, now that this is an issue, how should we address
09:43:45 What side are we going to take the side of fairness and
09:43:48 justice and equality for all?
09:43:50 Or are we going to take the side, well, it's a
09:43:54 I was reading some newspaper articles about the
09:43:56 Montgomery bus boycott back in the 60s.
09:44:01 And a lot of people said, this is a tradition.
09:44:04 Change is scary.
09:44:05 It can be.
09:44:06 But we are not here because it's a game.
09:44:09 We are not here because we just want to be troublesome.
09:44:12 We are here because there are people who have real-life
09:44:17 repercussions to the prejudice stereotypes and
09:44:19 discrimination that many atheists face in their day to
09:44:22 day lives.
09:44:24 So we just want to bring that to your attention.
09:44:26 And also just to let the council know, there's a
09:44:30 statewide meeting at the end of April in Sarasota which
09:44:33 is bringing together atheists, humanists, and free
09:44:37 thought leaders around areas round the state including
09:44:39 the national coalition of America.
09:44:42 Thank you.
09:44:42 (Bell sounds)
09:44:49 >> Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
09:44:51 My name is Moses Knott, Jr.
09:44:53 I reside at 2902 -- 89 Mr. Knott, we missed you.
09:44:59 Where have you been?
09:45:00 >> Ms. Miller --
09:45:07 >>GWEN MILLER: You can tell me privately.
09:45:08 >> No, you asked me where I been.
09:45:14 I need time to tell you.
09:45:15 My heart went bad and they put me on the generator, for
09:45:19 the last ten years, and the last five years, so now put
09:45:24 a new generator in.
09:45:28 Start all over.
09:45:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Everybody has been asking about you.
09:45:37 First time it's been put to the test today.
09:45:42 [ Laughter ]
09:45:45 >>GWEN MILLER: You go ahead.
09:45:46 >> You know, I just thank God for his grace and his
09:45:51 And then I thank God for the atheist peoples.
09:45:54 You know, I sit home at 12:00 every night and I sit
09:45:58 there and I sit there three or four times, and
09:46:02 something hit me.
09:46:08 You heard me say this man.
09:46:12 We got millions of atheist peoples.
09:46:15 Atheist peoples don't believe in God and some of them
09:46:18 are good peoples.
09:46:19 I went a long time, had no money in my pocket, I didn't
09:46:26 need God.
09:46:26 But when I got sick, you hear me three or four times
09:46:29 like right now, I just had another generator put in.
09:46:32 I could have died.
09:46:33 I could have died three times, and God put me back here
09:46:38 this morning.
09:46:38 But to say awhile ago that atheists everywhere.
09:46:46 You know, I been asked to pray three times out of my 30
09:46:51 years of coming here and I refused.
09:46:53 I refused.
09:46:55 And why I refused?
09:46:56 Because this piece of paper here.
09:47:02 But back to word of God this morning, atheists
09:47:06 But let me tell you why I thank God for these atheists.
09:47:13 Our poor peoples you talk about this morning, they
09:47:18 aren't welcome oh to come here and speak, taxpayers,
09:47:21 poor peoples, they cut the TV off, people have parking
09:47:27 tickets by the thousands come down here to speak, and
09:47:31 you know they cut the TV off.
09:47:37 For years couldn't come here but the atheists change.
09:47:41 And I want all of the citizens in this town, come to
09:47:45 town and file your complaint.
09:47:46 They are welcome to come here now.
09:47:49 Thank God for the atheists.
09:47:51 Thank God for you all.
09:47:54 And the devils walk around here, walking around with
09:48:01 They are all over the place.
09:48:03 The evil in this place.
09:48:04 I mean, I see people lose everything they got.
09:48:11 People like me, you know.
09:48:13 Where I live, ten foot from my house.
09:48:17 That is my house.
09:48:18 And I talk with the gentleman and told me sue us.
09:48:25 The poor person can't.
09:48:27 But got to come from north Tampa to all the way and
09:48:31 pass out some rich people's houses and they going to
09:48:35 get sued.
09:48:35 And I want to get my part of it for what they did to
09:48:42 The man come to my house, took a picture, "sue us."
09:48:48 And I told him poor people can't sue -- like my friend,
09:48:54 he sued the hell out of the city.
09:48:56 Can't talk about it no more.
09:49:00 That six-foot lap dancing thing, he showed you all
09:49:05 Brought a convention here.
09:49:08 The Joe Redner place.
09:49:09 (Bell sounds)
09:49:12 >> We missed you, Mr. Knott.
09:49:19 >> My name is Clarence Townes, and I live at
09:49:25 homesteaded property at 2706 North 33rd street in
09:49:31 Tampa, Florida.
09:49:32 My topic today will be power corrupts.
09:49:35 Number one, the State of Florida has the law that makes
09:49:38 it a felony to trespass on a construction site.
09:49:42 2706 North 33rd street is such a place.
09:49:48 A construction site.
09:49:50 Number two, in the U.S. Constitution no one's land can
09:49:52 be taken over and that person forced to leave their
09:49:55 That's called unlawful seizure.
09:49:58 Number three, a person shouldn't be threatened with
09:50:01 arrest because they report unlawful activity by people
09:50:06 saying that they are police.
09:50:08 Case in point.
09:50:10 On Tuesday, March 30th, that was just a couple of
09:50:13 days ago, 2010, at approximately 5:30 p.m., a black
09:50:18 Ford pickup truck with dark tinted windows had driven
09:50:22 about 16 feet onto the homesteaded construction site
09:50:30 and was parked on the north side of the storage shed
09:50:33 that I am building.
09:50:35 I approached the truck on the passenger side, and the
09:50:38 person rolled down the window about five inches, and I
09:50:42 asked what did they want?
09:50:44 And the driver said they were policemen and was doing
09:50:49 I asked them to leave the property.
09:50:51 They refused and ordered me away from the vehicle they
09:50:54 were in and off that portion of the homesteaded
09:50:58 property which is 49 feet by 103 feet.
09:51:01 That's right.
09:51:02 Ordered me to leave my own property.
09:51:05 That's unlawful seizure.
09:51:07 I went into the house, I and Gloria residents of the
09:51:12 property also called 911.
09:51:15 After what seemed like an eternity, they finally left.
09:51:19 Then one of them called me at 5:54 p.m. from
09:51:24 813-310-8758, and he told me if I ever called 911 on
09:51:34 him again, I will be arrested.
09:51:37 Mind you that after they had already committed a felony
09:51:42 for trespass and a civil rights violation ordering me
09:51:45 off my property unlawful seizure.
09:51:49 And now I'm being threatened with arrest for reporting
09:51:52 unlawful activity by people saying they are policemen.
09:51:58 Oh, by the way, they did get their guy, or should I
09:52:02 say, a car, a '96 or '97 Nissan Maxima with 20-inch
09:52:10 rims, could have been 22, 24s, from 2703 north
09:52:14 33rd street.
09:52:16 They were towed away by supreme towing and the driver
09:52:19 of the car left walking.
09:52:21 That was about ten-something that evening.
09:52:24 So what's up with that?
09:52:25 The police break laws in order to repossess a car for
09:52:29 I don't think, but I know the action of these so-called
09:52:33 officers should be looked into.
09:52:35 The number again, I got that arrest threat from is area
09:52:38 code 813-310-8758.
09:52:45 Man, your police force is out of control.
09:52:47 Oh, yes, I called a 911 and I had the right to.
09:52:55 Two guys --
09:52:56 (Bell sounds).
09:52:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
09:52:58 Let me suggest to you that because we have a process, I
09:53:00 recommend that you meet with the city attorney, and he
09:53:05 can advise you as to the process to address that
09:53:08 concern relative to law enforcement.
09:53:11 Thank you.
09:53:14 Next speaker.
09:53:14 >> Gerald White, Hillsborough County community
09:53:24 First, I am a Christian, and I stand here before the
09:53:26 people of the City of Tampa and rebuke the devil and
09:53:30 all of its wicked ways.
09:53:32 This is a Christian community.
09:53:34 We rely on prayer.
09:53:36 We think God has blessed the City of Tampa,
09:53:40 Hillsborough County, and it's really disappointing,
09:53:45 here we are getting ready to celebrate Good Friday,
09:53:48 this holy period in America, that these folks will come
09:53:52 up here and call for change in something that has
09:53:56 served the City of Tampa so well.
09:53:58 And that is prayer.
09:53:59 And so if I had to say anything before Good Friday is
09:54:03 that the government, the City of Tampa, should continue
09:54:06 prayer, continue to look to God for blessing and for
09:54:11 hope, and for positive change in the City of Tampa.
09:54:14 And so, as a registered voter here in this community,
09:54:20 stay the course.
09:54:21 Don't be moved by people that come from outside of the
09:54:24 City of Tampa, outside of Hillsborough County, outside
09:54:28 of the State of Florida, requesting unnecessary,
09:54:33 unjustified change for the people of the City of Tampa.
09:54:37 And I also come this morning just to say thank you to
09:54:40 this council for the work that you do in this very
09:54:44 difficult time.
09:54:45 I watch your meetings.
09:54:46 I watch your proceedings, your workshops, and something
09:54:49 just told me just to come down here just to thank you,
09:54:53 and to continue to work hard, work with the mayor in
09:54:56 these tough economic times, and try to find solutions.
09:55:00 I know some of you all are contemplating higher office,
09:55:05 but we need your service now.
09:55:07 Do all that you can before the next administration
09:55:10 comes next year to make and keep our city strong.
09:55:12 We need you desperately.
09:55:15 It's very important that we maintain as much -- as many
09:55:21 qualified people to keep our city whole and keep us
09:55:25 moving forward.
09:55:26 I just thank you for what you do, and just keep it up,
09:55:29 and be strong.
09:55:31 And I saw in the paper that the people that were lining
09:55:33 up for jobs in Central Park, I came before this council
09:55:37 last year and requested that this council, this sitting
09:55:39 council today, do something related to Central Park
09:55:42 before your term ends.
09:55:44 And you have.
09:55:44 You have done it.
09:55:46 Development is taking place.
09:55:47 People are being hired.
09:55:49 Thank you for that.
09:55:50 That is a remarkable accomplishment.
09:55:53 And the Tampa City Council, the mayor of the city, and
09:55:55 the Housing Authority is to be commended for getting
09:55:58 the job done, working with the state, working with the
09:56:01 county, working with the federal government to bring
09:56:03 money to our community.
09:56:05 And so you guys are on course.
09:56:09 You are making it happen.
09:56:10 You are doing it the right way.
09:56:12 You have been inclusive.
09:56:13 You are being open.
09:56:15 And you are keeping this community moving forward.
09:56:17 And so my message this morning to this government is
09:56:21 thank you for what you do, and don't turn away.
09:56:24 Keep striving to do better and better and better for
09:56:28 the people of the City of Tampa.
09:56:29 God bless you.
09:56:31 Happy Good Friday.
09:56:32 And keep the faith.
09:56:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Mr. White.
09:56:36 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. White, I have known you about
09:56:39 15 years, or maybe a little longer.
09:56:41 I want to thank you for everything that you do for the
09:56:44 community, because you do a lot.
09:56:46 And your opinion is very much appreciated.
09:56:49 >> Thank you, council.
09:56:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:56:54 We will now ask for any reconsideration of a
09:56:57 legislative matter.
09:56:58 Anyone who wishes to address council on a
09:57:00 reconsideration of a legislative matter.
09:57:03 Okay, then we'll move to our committee reports.
09:57:06 Councilwoman Gwen Miller, public safety.
09:57:08 >>GWEN MILLER: I move items 3, 4 and 5.
09:57:11 >> Second.
09:57:13 >> Seconded.
09:57:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
09:57:17 Councilwoman Saul-Sena, Councilwoman Mulhern,
09:57:22 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
09:57:24 Parks and recreation.
09:57:25 I want to highlight item 7.
09:57:27 Item 7, I want to say to council is $2.5 million to be
09:57:31 used for the Spring Hill park community center in
09:57:34 Sulphur Springs.
09:57:36 And they are a deserving center, very deserving
09:57:39 project, and it will be approved today by City Council,
09:57:46 look forward to that.
09:57:48 2.5 million.
09:57:49 >>MARY MULHERN: I move items 6 through 13.
09:57:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
09:57:58 All in favor say Aye.
09:57:59 Public Works Committee, pulling item 19 and 24.
09:58:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move 14 through 18.
09:58:10 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
09:58:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Moved and seconded.
09:58:17 All in favor?
09:58:21 Finance Committee.
09:58:21 Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:58:23 Pulling 19 and 24.
09:58:25 >>MARY MULHERN: I move items 20 through 23 and 257
09:58:30 through 27.
09:58:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
09:58:39 All in favor?
09:58:41 Building and zoning.
09:58:42 Councilman Caetano.
09:58:43 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like to pull items --
09:58:47 approve items 28 through 37.
09:58:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I would like to highlight 31.
09:58:56 Item 31 we are moving approval today of the
09:58:59 registration of the foreclosed or vacant properties in
09:59:03 the City of Tampa.
09:59:05 That would be, as you know, administration moved
09:59:07 forward, $125 fee per year annually.
09:59:12 And so I want to highlight that we move forward with
09:59:14 that item.
09:59:16 And then item 35.
09:59:19 Item 35 is the stimulus program, the neighborhood
09:59:25 stabilization program, where $10 million is going to be
09:59:28 allocated for East Tampa.
09:59:31 $10 million allocated for East Tampa and the boundaries
09:59:34 are north of the Dr. MLK Boulevard, south Adamo Drive,
09:59:40 west, Florida Avenue, east, city limits.
09:59:44 And that is $10 million earmarked for East Tampa for
09:59:47 the neighborhood stabilization program.
09:59:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can I ask a question on that?
09:59:51 It says it's foreclosed, to help foreclosures, to
09:59:56 mitigate foreclosures.
09:59:57 And the question is, we will be administering that, I
10:00:01 assume, under Mrs. Miller's department.
10:00:04 And I just wonder, we haven't had such a fabulous track
10:00:09 record in terms of some of the other federal moneys we
10:00:11 have gotten.
10:00:13 I would assume that this is going to be between the
10:00:15 property owners or banks, and we will be providing
10:00:19 funding as a stop gap measure so they are able to stay
10:00:22 in their houses and maybe renegotiate.
10:00:24 I just would like to hear back after we receive this
10:00:27 and after the program gets going on maybe an
10:00:32 every-three-month basis how it's going, because I feel
10:00:36 like the public is really interested in knowing.
10:00:38 And we are thrilled to be getting this money.
10:00:40 We want to be sure it's being used in a timely way.
10:00:43 So perhaps my motion would be after we get through this
10:00:46 to vice-president a staff report, appear and provide a
10:00:50 staff report.
10:00:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Just one correction.
10:00:54 I think the article that was put in the paper on the
10:00:56 stabilization program was not accurate.
10:00:58 You recall Mrs. Miller came forth and gave us some
10:01:01 updated numbers relative to that.
10:01:03 I just want to let counsel know that -- council know
10:01:09 that was done a couple months ago.
10:01:11 Did we get a second?
10:01:13 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
10:01:15 Linda, are you going to make that motion after?
10:01:18 >> Moved and seconded.
10:01:19 All in favor say Aye.
10:01:22 Okay, Councilwoman.
10:01:23 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to say what might be
10:01:26 helpful in that staff report, add this, is if we could
10:01:31 get a report on what the requirements are for spend,
10:01:36 allocating and spending that money, and if we are going
10:01:39 to be meeting the deadline, and if we don't, what the
10:01:41 problems are.
10:01:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My motion would be to get a staff
10:01:46 report in 90 days for the staff to appear and provide a
10:01:49 rundown on how we are doing in using the $10 million
10:01:54 under the neighborhood stabilization program for
10:01:58 foreclosure mitigation, and what the guidelines are and
10:02:00 how we are doing.
10:02:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If I may add to that it's not he is
10:02:06 you just to say one thing.
10:02:07 But whatever is vacant, let's not say that you think
10:02:12 the city is going to take them over, and all of them,
10:02:15 because there's a continuous movement forwards and
10:02:18 backwards on people leaving and people coming in that
10:02:22 are trying to increase their portfolio, and they are in
10:02:29 What you might want to buy today has already been sold
10:02:33 yesterday, because there's this REBC, whatever, these
10:02:39 auctions, and there's auctions going on all the time.
10:02:42 By the time the city gets there.
10:02:43 They may not be what's left for them to buy.
10:02:46 So maybe that could be in the report.
10:02:49 How many they wanted to buy and how many they could buy
10:02:50 because they were gone.
10:02:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I know in working with the county
10:02:56 advisory board on this program that a lot of times the
10:03:02 private investors, that's what you are talking about.
10:03:09 There's a process you have with government, where
10:03:11 private investors are able to move much faster, and
10:03:14 they kind of take it pretty fast, pretty quickly.
10:03:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My understanding is this is to keep
10:03:21 the people who currently have mortgages that aren't
10:03:23 able to provide to provide some relief so they are able
10:03:26 to stay in their homes and work out some other kind of
10:03:29 pavement schedule.
10:03:30 We'll find out when we get the report back.
10:03:32 >>MARY MULHERN: I thought that's what it was, too.
10:03:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I don't think it's like that.
10:03:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Ninety days.
10:03:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can we start in 30 days and go over
10:03:42 90 days after that?
10:03:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: All right, I amend my motion to say
10:03:46 30 days.
10:03:48 And also that helps get the word out to the public that
10:03:50 this program is being initiated.
10:03:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: This would apply to the first as
10:03:59 well as this one?
10:04:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
10:04:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
10:04:02 All in favor?
10:04:04 Councilman Dingfelder.
10:04:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ms. Mulhern pulled 39 and 40.
10:04:13 We'll discuss that later.
10:04:15 38, 41, 42, and 43.
10:04:18 >> Second.
10:04:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
10:04:23 All in favor?
10:04:26 Now --
10:04:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We appreciate the city's
10:04:32 contribution on item 41.
10:04:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:04:37 Then we will now take up the 9:30 items.
10:04:40 I think that completed all our committee reports.
10:04:45 Except the items that are pulled.
10:04:47 They will come up under staff reports.
10:04:49 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I wasn't sure whether councilman
10:04:54 Dingfelder wants just a separate vote on a particular
10:04:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: One item was item 7.
10:04:58 I know you wanted a separate vote.
10:05:01 He was not here at that time.
10:05:02 Item 7.
10:05:03 What about 19?
10:05:04 You pulled 19.
10:05:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I apologize for not being here on 7.
10:05:09 Let me say what I was going to say on 7, even though my
10:05:12 vote I guess would be signified by being absent.
10:05:17 But it's a wonderful thing that we are building this
10:05:20 rec center, 2.5 million.
10:05:24 We saved up for many years to build it and I think it's
10:05:27 The only thing I'm a little disappointed about is that
10:05:31 in our green ordinance we passed two years ago, the
10:05:36 intent of the green ordinance, one of the intents was
10:05:39 we were following the federal and the state government
10:05:42 which basically said from now on we are going to build
10:05:48 LEED silver buildings, and somehow or another, I guess
10:05:54 when we passed it, the ordinance ultimately said LEED
10:05:57 silver or equivalent.
10:05:58 And in this case, they opted to go for the equivalent.
10:06:02 And I didn't make a big stink about it, because I think
10:06:07 it's more important that we build this building.
10:06:09 But I think that even the mayor's task force on energy,
10:06:13 one of their recommendations was that the city build
10:06:17 LEED silver buildings.
10:06:18 So when we do have these big investments, we build them
10:06:21 in an energy efficient way, and we actually get it
10:06:24 certified by an independent body.
10:06:26 So I'm just standing here on my little soap box today,
10:06:31 and I would like for us in the future to address this
10:06:34 issue, to build -- that we need to stand by what we
10:06:39 said two years ago, we need to build buildings that are
10:06:43 legitimate green buildings, and are certified as LEED
10:06:48 silver, and I just hope we try to do a better job in
10:06:52 the future.
10:06:52 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm hoping that this is going to be
10:06:57 LEED certified silver or gold, because I was at the
10:07:01 task force report to the mayor last week and the mayor
10:07:06 herself said, when she was told about a new fire
10:07:12 station in St. Pete that was going to be LEED
10:07:14 certified, she said, well, all of our new buildings are
10:07:17 going to be LEED certified.
10:07:21 And we have a new fire station being built wilt will be
10:07:24 LEED certified.
10:07:25 She didn't mention this particular building, but she
10:07:28 was clear about that, and I'm glad you brought this up
10:07:32 because I was wondering, that was my question, which I
10:07:34 wasn't able to ask at that meeting.
10:07:36 But whether that was part of our -- so our green
10:07:40 ordinance actually says LEED certified or equivalent,
10:07:43 and maybe that's something that we should change in the
10:07:46 ordinance, so it actually is LEED certified.
10:07:59 I'll support that.
10:08:01 Maybe staff is going to come over to talk about the two
10:08:03 items I pulled so they can let us know if this is going
10:08:07 to be LEED certified.
10:08:08 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: There was a town hall meeting
10:08:11 last night, green elementary school, and Chief Jones
10:08:17 introduced station number 22, which is LEED certified,
10:08:21 So it will go under construction within a few months.
10:08:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, I think we need to get
10:08:29 clarification from Mr. Vaughan, because Mr. Daignault
10:08:31 and I have had a bunch of conversations on this issue,
10:08:35 and I think the city staff's position is we can save a
10:08:37 little bit of money and take this generic or equivalent
10:08:43 position as opposed to actually getting LEED certified.
10:08:46 If these buildings were going to be LEED certified,
10:08:49 then we would be having a ceremony and a little plaque,
10:08:52 and people from the green building council coming in to
10:08:54 give us our little plaque that says that we have
10:08:57 evaluated these buildings and they are LEED certified.
10:09:00 That's not -- I don't think that's in the plans.
10:09:02 But, anyway, I just wanted to bring it up.
10:09:05 We are going to move forward.
10:09:06 We are going to build that rec center.
10:09:08 It's going to be a wonderful thing.
10:09:09 But I think we can do better.
10:09:11 The other item I wanted to mention, what was it,
10:09:14 Mr. Chairman, that I pulled?
10:09:17 If we vote on that?
10:09:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You wanted to pull those items to have
10:09:26 staff come over under staff report.
10:09:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And on 19 I just wanted a separate
10:09:32 vote, if somebody wants to move it as an item.
10:09:34 That's the Montanaro settlement agreement.
10:09:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: What is the Montanaro?
10:09:56 Was it us, was it mistake or stupidity?
10:10:01 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I tried to get with each member on
10:10:04 this one, and I was not able to get with Mr. Miranda or
10:10:08 Mr. Dingfelder.
10:10:10 This goes back, I believe, initiated in 2001.
10:10:15 It was a zoning administrator decision, and the 2002
10:10:22 time frame, was appealed and went to council in 2003.
10:10:25 It's a lot division where our staff and council through
10:10:33 that process denied the lot division.
10:10:37 There was a writ of cert which was granted by state
10:10:45 circuit court in order to subdivision back in that time
10:10:47 frame in the 2003 time frame, and then subsequently
10:10:53 there was action for damages under section 1983 of
10:10:56 federal code.
10:11:00 In the fall there was a jury verdict against the city
10:11:05 in that case awarding actual damages and interests.
10:11:08 What is before you is the settlement that would resolve
10:11:10 that case including attorneys' fees, which under
10:11:14 section 1983 they have a right to.
10:11:20 This settlement would pay those fees at an amount that
10:11:24 is significantly less than what they filed the request
10:11:27 for in court.
10:11:29 We could go forward and litigate the attorney's fees,
10:11:33 but considering the discount that we were offered, we
10:11:35 thought it was prudent to bring that to council for
10:11:37 council's consideration.
10:11:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: What department did this?
10:11:42 I mean, somebody overstepped their bounds, I guess, but
10:11:48 we got sued?
10:11:51 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: It was a zoning administrator
10:11:53 decision on the lot division, and we could go through
10:11:55 kind of the -- point to where mistakes were made.
10:11:59 There were a number of items that the plaintiff's
10:12:01 attorney pointed to in their closing argument.
10:12:05 One of the items before you also today is a change in
10:12:08 how we handle the zoning administrator processes where
10:12:13 those determinations would be more formal, there would
10:12:15 be a written order, there would be an opportunity to go
10:12:17 to a hearing officer.
10:12:20 That helps mitigate these issues because part of what
10:12:22 happened here is there was not a formal order rendered.
10:12:27 The way it was written did not provide us with a good
10:12:29 opportunity to defend it.
10:12:32 And frankly the allegation by the plaintiffs was that
10:12:35 we treated these folks differently due to community
10:12:38 pressure, and that was a key piece of their claim.
10:12:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So what did council do in this
10:12:49 You made some statements there about we did something
10:12:51 to community pressure so that means it was us.
10:12:56 With me you don't have to hide anything.
10:12:57 Just tell me.
10:12:58 Tell me if I made a stupid mistake.
10:13:00 Tell me.
10:13:01 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: In this instance, I don't know
10:13:05 that that happened because there was the same decision
10:13:09 rendered by the zoning administrator, the Variance
10:13:11 Review Board and City Council.
10:13:13 They all consistently denied it.
10:13:16 So I can't tell you that there was an action like that
10:13:20 at council.
10:13:22 I don't know that.
10:13:24 But certainly --
10:13:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Fletcher, what did the courts
10:13:29 The courts said that this board erred, so there had
10:13:34 to -- erred.
10:13:38 They had to have a finding by this case.
10:13:40 >> In this instance it's a jury verdict so there is not
10:13:42 a finding on the particular elements.
10:13:44 What was argued was that we used a code provision, and
10:13:48 the zoning administrator, the VRB and City Council, to
10:13:52 deny the lot division which was the only time that it
10:13:55 had been used to deny a lot division.
10:13:59 In addition to that, there was situation can't pressure
10:14:03 from the community, and according to their land use
10:14:06 planning expert, this was the only time this decision
10:14:10 was made, and it was treating differently these folks,
10:14:15 these applicants, and her view based on community
10:14:21 So that was the scenario that we believe the jury
10:14:25 accepted, without a written order it's somewhat
10:14:29 difficult to get into the minds of the jury but that
10:14:32 was the argument accepted by the jury.
10:14:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If you could tell me when that
10:14:36 I want to look at that file, how I voted, how others
10:14:40 I just want to review it for my own satisfaction.
10:14:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I wasn't here.
10:14:48 >>MARY MULHERN: I wasn't here either but I did get a
10:14:52 good briefing on this but Mr. Miranda raises a question
10:14:55 that I think he can answer.
10:14:56 What was that specific code provision?
10:15:00 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I don't have the citation.
10:15:02 But what it is, it disfavors unusual-shaped lots.
10:15:08 So it is as well somewhat unclear as to exactly what
10:15:12 that means.
10:15:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder, Miller,
10:15:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I remember the case well.
10:15:24 Council, at the end of the day, was supporting staff's
10:15:27 We were supporting the neighborhood's testimony.
10:15:31 It wasn't just neighborhood pressure.
10:15:32 It wasn't like it was back room deals with the
10:15:36 It was the neighbors standing at that very podium
10:15:40 giving us their opinions about compatible or
10:15:42 incompatible and consistent and inconsistent
10:15:45 development immediately adjacent on the residential
10:15:49 You know, there is nothing sneaky about it.
10:15:53 Unfortunately, the judge and the jury eventually didn't
10:15:55 see it that way.
10:15:56 And that's fine.
10:15:57 That's our system.
10:15:59 I just want to remind council that we shouldn't
10:16:01 overreact to this sort of thing.
10:16:05 And maybe it's a mistake that I even pulled this item
10:16:07 for discussion.
10:16:08 But that's okay.
10:16:09 We can air it out.
10:16:10 But I don't want us to overreact to this.
10:16:13 We made, over this period of time in the 06 context,
10:16:19 were making hundreds and hundreds of zoning decisions a
10:16:22 year, and this is one of the first that I can recall
10:16:26 that actually got bounced.
10:16:28 And at the end of the day, the judge and the jury said
10:16:32 that they didn't agree with us, and that's fine.
10:16:34 That's our system.
10:16:35 But I don't want us to overreact and be fearful of
10:16:40 making good decisions that support our neighborhoods,
10:16:44 that support our staff recommendations, and that sort
10:16:47 of thing.
10:16:47 And when attorneys -- and the reason I say that,
10:16:53 attorneys will stand at that podium, and they will put
10:16:55 their court reporters over there and type away, and the
10:16:59 threat is we might get sued, we might get sued.
10:17:02 Okay, we might get sued.
10:17:04 And on occasion we might lose.
10:17:07 But at the end of the day we are here because we have
10:17:09 to make the best judgments for our community, and I
10:17:11 think we do a great job at it, and I think we should
10:17:14 continue to do that, and especially in support of our
10:17:19 That's all.
10:17:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Hear-hear.
10:17:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to say I'm not afraid
10:17:27 I'm not afraid of court reporters.
10:17:29 I'm not afraid of anyone, period.
10:17:32 What I'm afraid of is that I make a mistake.
10:17:35 That is very hard for me to live with.
10:17:37 So I don't look at 20 people versus one.
10:17:41 I look at -- and I have said this before.
10:17:44 I can name you many cases right now where I said we are
10:17:47 heading in the wrong direction.
10:17:49 You can't tell somebody to put a sidewalk or land that
10:17:53 they own because you want it that way.
10:17:55 And we have done that many times.
10:17:58 I can tell you right now, on one case there was a big
10:18:01 plot of land an it and it was by wetlands, and we
10:18:05 forced them to say we'll put the sidewalk on our
10:18:08 property, because you can't put it on the wetlands.
10:18:11 That's wrong.
10:18:11 And I stated that night, to put it wherever you want.
10:18:16 And if I own the property and put a chain link fence
10:18:19 around it so you aren't going to Pell tell me what I do
10:18:22 with my property.
10:18:23 I believe in the right of people.
10:18:25 But I also believe there's got to be a balance between
10:18:27 what I want and what reality is.
10:18:31 Thank you.
10:18:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a motion for item 19?
10:18:35 >> So moved.
10:18:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Chairman, I'll support the
10:18:38 I just wanted to say one more thing.
10:18:40 And I won't belabor.
10:18:44 They called me as a witness, the other side in this
10:18:46 case, and I sat there and testified in this case in
10:18:50 front of the judge to try to explain what council's
10:18:52 position was that day.
10:18:53 And when I did that, it reinforced the fact that I
10:18:56 think we made the right decision.
10:18:58 You know, but sometimes it doesn't work out that way.
10:19:01 And as Chip indicated, Mr. Fletcher indicated, there
10:19:04 were some procedural glitches that we are now fixing,
10:19:08 you know, as a city to make our administrator decisions
10:19:13 stronger and more defensible and to help us as we go
10:19:16 through those processes.
10:19:17 So maybe if this came along in that posture at a future
10:19:21 date we might not have lost.
10:19:23 But we are not perfect.
10:19:24 By no means.
10:19:25 We make mistakes sometimes, and we'll look back 10, 20
10:19:28 years from now and we'll see situations and cases where
10:19:30 we erred.
10:19:32 In this case it don't think we erred but we do have to
10:19:35 pay this settlement because the judge and the jury says
10:19:40 we do.
10:19:41 I'll move it.
10:19:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:19:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
10:19:45 All in favor say Aye.
10:19:48 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda voting no and
10:19:50 Caetano being absent.
10:19:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Then we'll move to item 44.
10:19:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 24 was pulled for discussion.
10:19:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Under staff report, right?
10:20:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to do it.
10:20:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think all items come up under staff
10:20:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 24, I wanted a quick explanation.
10:20:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's move to the item and then go back
10:20:12 to it under staff report.
10:20:13 All pulled items generally come up under staff report.
10:20:16 Or do you just want a separate vote on it?
10:20:19 >>> Item 44?
10:20:30 Julia Cole, legal department.
10:20:31 I am very excited to present to you item 44 which is
10:20:34 change to our zoning administrator process and our
10:20:36 review process, in order to assist in some of these
10:20:40 procedural questions.
10:20:41 I did change the order to change the date to June
10:20:45 This will go into effect in order to give staff and the
10:20:47 clerk's office time to make the necessary changes,
10:20:49 forms, et cetera.
10:20:50 I will be coming forward with a new resolution in the
10:20:54 future to deal with the costs associated.
10:20:57 We need to put in the new.
10:21:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
10:21:06 That concludes all of the 9:30 public hearing items.
10:21:21 Item 44.
10:21:22 We need to read that, right?
10:21:25 Does anyone in the public wish to address council on
10:21:27 item 44?
10:21:28 Anyone from the public?
10:21:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to close.
10:21:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:21:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor say Aye.
10:21:34 Councilman Dingfelder.
10:21:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: As a matter of personal privy want
10:21:38 to introduce my brilliant nephew sitting in the front
10:21:41 row there.
10:21:43 He's Daniel, my brother's son.
10:21:45 And he's visiting us from Philadelphia.
10:21:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Welcome.
10:21:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move item 44.
10:21:55 An ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida making
10:21:58 comprehensive revisions to the City of Tampa code of
10:22:00 ordinances chapter 27, zoning, repealing article 15,
10:22:05 administration, creating article 15, administration,
10:22:08 repealing all ordinances or parts of ordinances in
10:22:10 conflict therewith, providing for severability,
10:22:12 providing an effective date.
10:22:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:22:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
10:22:18 Record your vote.
10:22:26 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Caetano being absent.
10:22:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I just thank Ms. Julia Cole and the
10:22:36 city attorney's office for doing excellent work in
10:22:38 making this first step happen.
10:22:42 It's a process that I think will help us in the future,
10:22:44 and deal with some of those items that we hopefully
10:22:47 will not have the problem that we had just on the
10:22:52 MONTANARO case.
10:22:52 >>JULIA COLE: If I could take one moment to thank Mr.
10:22:55 Fletcher for making it possible for me to have the
10:22:58 opportunity, and also the entire zoning staff that
10:23:01 specifically helped, and spent a lot of time and
10:23:06 working with city staff, and thank you to council and
10:23:08 the other folks.
10:23:09 This is a tremendous change in our process.
10:23:12 Thank you.
10:23:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think it's a good one and will help
10:23:15 us in the process.
10:23:17 Item 45.
10:23:18 Anyone from the public wish to address council on item
10:23:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
10:23:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?
10:23:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:23:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
10:23:31 Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:23:31 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:23:41 I move an ordinance being presented for second reading
10:23:43 and adoption vacating, closing, discontinuing,
10:23:45 abandoning a certain right-of-way all that portion of
10:23:47 alleyway lying south of 38th Avenue north of north
10:23:50 Bay Street, east of 33rd street, and west of north
10:23:53 34th street in ALTAMIRA Heights, a subdivision in
10:23:59 the city of Tampa, Florida the same being more fully
10:24:01 described in section 2 thereof subject to certain
10:24:03 covenants, conditions and restrictions as more
10:24:06 particularly described herein, providing an effective
10:24:07 >> Second.
10:24:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
10:24:11 All in favor, record your vote.
10:24:20 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Caetano being absent.
10:24:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: On item 46, Ms. Miller wanted to speak
10:24:29 on this item and then Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
10:24:33 Anyone from the public wish to address council on item
10:24:37 Item 46.
10:24:37 >>LaCHONE DOCK: Land Development Coordination.
10:24:43 Council, items 46 and 47 require certified site plans.
10:24:48 These plans have been certified by the zoning
10:24:49 administrator and have been provided to the clerk.
10:24:52 I have copies of these plans if you have any questions.
10:24:54 Thank you.
10:24:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me swear the witnesses in on this
10:24:57 as well.
10:24:59 Those that have not been sworn please stand to be sworn
10:25:03 at this time.
10:25:03 (Oath administered by Clerk).
10:25:16 >>GWEN MILLER: On item 46 last time I voted.
10:25:19 We had to think about it, wasn't the right thing to do.
10:25:24 On 22nd street, we had a lot of problems, the police
10:25:27 department really worked hard to make 22nd street a
10:25:29 street that you wanted to drive through, and then we
10:25:32 had such a good area, CRA, talk about redoing 22nd
10:25:41 I drove down there.
10:25:42 And there's a lot of young people out there, and a lot
10:25:44 of people that were out on their porches, and before
10:25:49 they could not go Do this because you wouldn't want to
10:25:52 go down 22nd street because it was so bad.
10:25:54 And I don't want to give the police department another
10:25:58 job to go back to 22nd street and clean it up again, so
10:26:01 I cannot support it.
10:26:03 I will have to vote against it because I want 22nd
10:26:05 street to stay as it is.
10:26:11 Help to get 22nd street so people can walk.
10:26:15 Now when you go, the people are traveling 22nd, it used
10:26:20 to be you wouldn't even go down 22nd street.
10:26:22 They would go other directions.
10:26:24 But I drove down two or three blocks, because everybody
10:26:27 would feel comfortable now driving down there, and I
10:26:30 wanted to stay that way.
10:26:31 I wanted the police department to have another job.
10:26:35 I don't want to have to do that.
10:26:37 So I would vote against it at this time.
10:26:40 I would ask my colleagues to support this to make sure
10:26:43 to keep 22nd street the same way.
10:26:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: May I ask a question, Mrs. Miller?
10:26:51 Would you be supportive of this if it were conditional?
10:26:53 Because that's the trickiness as we have all discussed
10:26:57 in these zonings.
10:26:58 It depends on how they run it and what kind of impact
10:27:01 it has on the neighborhood.
10:27:02 >>GWEN MILLER: I don't think I can do that either,
10:27:05 Mrs. Saul-Sena, because these are nice apartments, and
10:27:09 a lot of young people are there, and we have a school
10:27:12 bus stop that comes to that area.
10:27:15 I hate to see the kids getting off this bus going next
10:27:17 door, and I just can't support it because I said let me
10:27:23 go back down and see if this is going to be a problem,
10:27:27 and I did.
10:27:27 I went two or three times.
10:27:29 And I don't think it would be conducive for that area,
10:27:31 especially when we redo 22nd street, do around about
10:27:36 and all that, and I don't think it's going to be good
10:27:38 for that area.
10:27:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay.
10:27:39 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Councilwoman, for telling
10:27:47 us that, because I wasn't here for the first reading,
10:27:50 but now that I look at the staff report, we have got
10:27:54 three and a half pages of residences within 1,000 feet.
10:27:59 They are asking for a lot of waivers for residences,
10:28:02 and then it looks like also for institutional uses.
10:28:06 So I'm going to trust you.
10:28:11 It's your neighborhood.
10:28:16 And I will vote against this based on the fact that
10:28:18 these are some pretty significant waivers they are
10:28:20 asking for.
10:28:23 And I assume the neighbors probably are not in support
10:28:26 of this.
10:28:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, we'll let the petitioner come
10:28:32 and speak because the way it looks now -- and I am
10:28:34 going to support Mrs. Miller on this.
10:28:38 The petitioner come forward at this time.
10:28:42 It's already open.
10:29:01 >> I'm going to be the new owner for this, north 22nd
10:29:06 There is three additional stores in the area.
10:29:08 They all have alcohol sales.
10:29:11 There is a large residential area.
10:29:22 They are all in support of the store.
10:29:23 And alcohol sales.
10:29:25 We will not sell alcohol to minors.
10:29:29 It's going to be 21 and over.
10:29:31 ID is required.
10:29:32 It won't affect the kids in any way in the
10:29:36 And we did get support from the neighborhood and they
10:29:38 are all in support of it.
10:29:40 There is not a local bus route on 22nd street where the
10:29:45 store is located.
10:29:46 Tallahassee approximate bus route inside of the
10:29:48 apartment complex which is over 1,000 feet from the
10:29:52 And 22nd street has improved, and the neighborhood is
10:30:00 better, and the alcoholic sales won't affect the kids.
10:30:07 But we are also for the kids.
10:30:14 There is juice and different things the kids can have.
10:30:16 It's not just a community with kids.
10:30:17 There's a variety of different people there.
10:30:22 Adults and youth, and there are kids as well.
10:30:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
10:30:32 I think I recall the application, looked like a little
10:30:38 convenience store.
10:30:39 >>> Correct.
10:30:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is it open yet?
10:30:43 Are you all fixing it up?
10:30:45 >>> Yes.
10:30:45 >> Which one?
10:30:46 >>> We are fixing it up to open
10:30:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We talked about hours of operation
10:30:55 last time.
10:30:56 I think we had agreed --
10:31:00 >>> Stop alcohol at 10 p.m.
10:31:02 >> 10 p.m. seven days a week?
10:31:04 >>> Yes.
10:31:05 >> And I guess Ms. Saul-Sena's suggestion, I know it's
10:31:10 going to be a new suggestion for you, is the
10:31:13 possibility that we give you a one-year conditional
10:31:17 license, or conditional approval, to see how it goes.
10:31:24 And out of concerns raised by Ms. Miller that -- and
10:31:31 the assumption would be that if you all do good for the
10:31:34 year, then you can come back next year and make your
10:31:37 case again, and then see what council does on a more
10:31:42 permanent basis.
10:31:47 I might be amenable to that personally just because I
10:31:51 think everybody deserves a chance.
10:31:53 And I know in my neighborhood, we have got 7-Elevens
10:32:00 and those type of conveniences stores up against Bay to
10:32:03 Bay, MacDill, Davis Island where Linda lives, you
10:32:06 have two convenience stores that back up close to
10:32:09 neighborhoods and that sort of thing.
10:32:10 So I think as long as it's responsible, then that's the
10:32:13 critical -- that's the critical part of it.
10:32:15 >>> Absolutely.
10:32:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm just tossing it out there.
10:32:20 Is that something that you might be interested in?
10:32:22 >>> Yes.
10:32:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder, I know what a 7-Eleven
10:32:28 This is one door, it's not like 7-Eleven.
10:32:32 They have a drive-in.
10:32:33 It's right on the street.
10:32:34 You walk right out on the street.
10:32:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You gave the example not in terms
10:32:51 of the actual store but in terms of a convenience store
10:32:54 with food and sandwiches and a little bit of beer and
10:32:59 I remember it.
10:33:03 I was hoping that they would be fixing it up.
10:33:23 >> The sign said beer.
10:33:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We pointed that out last time.
10:33:27 I think that was left over from the prior occupant.
10:33:30 Because they are not even open yet.
10:33:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, anything else?
10:33:38 Yes, ma'am.
10:33:39 Anything else?
10:33:40 >>> Yes.
10:33:40 I respectfully ask for your approval again.
10:33:42 It's three stores in the area.
10:33:45 Not far from my store that sell alcohol and it's in the
10:33:49 same vicinity, the same apartment complex that Ms.
10:33:53 Miller is speaking on, is there with three additional
10:33:58 stores as well.
10:33:59 And the 7-Eleven sells alcohol as well, and they sell
10:34:06 everything that I will be selling, and alcohol sales
10:34:08 doesn't affect the kids, and kids go to 7-Elevens and
10:34:15 it doesn't affect the kids and we are responsible and
10:34:18 will do everything we need to do.
10:34:20 And I think the one-year conditional, if I have to come
10:34:22 back again, I have to pay the $2500 that I paid to come
10:34:27 in front of you guys again.
10:34:28 And we are a small business.
10:34:30 And I wanted to bring that financial part up again.
10:34:35 But I will take those conditions.
10:34:37 I would like for you guys to give us a chance.
10:34:40 >> Do you own the place?
10:34:42 >> Yes.
10:34:42 I am going to be the new owner of it.
10:34:44 We are in contract now with taking over the
10:34:48 establishment and I will be the new owner of the store.
10:34:51 >> Owner by yourself?
10:34:53 >> Yes.
10:34:53 >> Got any children?
10:34:55 >> Yes.
10:34:55 >> How many children do you have?
10:34:56 >> I have two.
10:34:57 >> Married?
10:34:58 >> Yes.
10:35:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I sit here, and I guess the only
10:35:07 thing I got in life is a pretty good memory.
10:35:10 But I wonder, in a case like yours, I'm not speaking to
10:35:15 you directly, but I have seen these things come up all
10:35:18 the time in all different parts of the neighborhoods
10:35:20 and they say, you can't sell singles.
10:35:25 They can sell singles anywhere else.
10:35:28 That hasn't been asked.
10:35:29 And I'm sure you are going to sell single bottles.
10:35:33 You have to.
10:35:36 I mean, that's only logical.
10:35:38 So I haven't heard that lately.
10:35:40 It's been quiet, on the back burner somehow.
10:35:43 But I have said all along, that is not an appropriate
10:35:47 question to ask.
10:35:50 Alcohol beverage zonings or you don't.
10:35:52 But you don't get one of the conditions I put in.
10:35:59 I can tell you ten places, and my memory is still very,
10:36:02 very good, where it's happened at.
10:36:04 And I was the only one in the beginning to vote no.
10:36:07 And you have a compelling case.
10:36:09 But I just don't think it's appropriate for the
10:36:12 And for the record, I was born, raised -- I wasn't born
10:36:16 there but I was raised at 26th Avenue and 20th
10:36:20 street in what I thought were condominiums.
10:36:23 But they were actually the Tampa Housing Authority.
10:36:25 >>GWEN MILLER: They are condominiums now.
10:36:29 >> Condominiums now.
10:36:33 And you have solar hot water and everything else.
10:36:37 So that's where we are at.
10:36:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me follow up.
10:36:40 You own the building?
10:36:41 >> Yes, I will be owning the building.
10:36:43 I'm in contract with them now.
10:36:44 And getting the financial part.
10:36:48 I am leasing it currently from them at the moment.
10:36:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Leasing it from them.
10:36:53 Don't own it yet.
10:36:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: She's under contract.
10:36:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Under contract.
10:36:57 You own the business.
10:36:58 >> Yes.
10:37:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other stores?
10:37:03 >> No.
10:37:04 This is my first store.
10:37:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's a tough one.
10:37:10 >> It really is.
10:37:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Very tough.
10:37:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I felt like council provided the
10:37:21 public as well as ourselves with the option of creating
10:37:23 the conditional which gives us time to see the impact.
10:37:27 My concern is always with people with alcohol is people
10:37:32 leaving with glass bottles, perhaps breaking the
10:37:35 bottles, you know, creating a problem for the
10:37:39 surrounding neighborhood with trash and litter and
10:37:42 broken glass.
10:37:43 That's always been my biggest concern.
10:37:47 How would you address that?
10:37:50 >> They won't sit at the establishment and drink it.
10:37:53 If they went to the 7-Eleven and purchased beer,
10:37:56 alcohol sales, they would take it and go back to their
10:37:59 residence or wherever they are going with it.
10:38:01 And we'll keep it clean as well as our store.
10:38:08 And eliminate that so that doesn't happen.
10:38:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:38:22 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, for this young lady
10:38:23 to come back, it's probably around $2300, $2500 to come
10:38:28 for reapplication.
10:38:30 >>> Yes, sir.
10:38:30 >> We don't have many young people such as this lady
10:38:35 and this gentleman coming up here looking for a
10:38:38 I will not support a conditional, but I will support
10:38:42 the motion for approval.
10:38:43 >>> Thank you.
10:38:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, we got a problem then, because I
10:38:50 was going to not vote for it at all.
10:38:52 I was leaning towards one-year conditional.
10:38:57 And I'm just concerned because a lot of work has gone
10:39:00 into that.
10:39:01 Ms. Miller is right, a lot of work has gone into
10:39:04 cleaning up the area.
10:39:05 It is a whole lot better.
10:39:06 I just don't want to open that door back up.
10:39:09 But maybe a young entrepreneur I'm willing to see one
10:39:13 year, see how it works and how well you kept the
10:39:16 property, as well as a lot of loitering and stuff
10:39:21 around, now.
10:39:22 >>> And that's what I ask for is a chance so you guys
10:39:25 can see how it goes.
10:39:32 >>GWEN MILLER: We have to close it.
10:39:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
10:39:38 If he's not going to vote for the conditional, it's
10:39:40 going to fail anyway.
10:39:41 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: We haven't had a vote yet,
10:39:46 Mr. Chairman.
10:39:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:39:49 Let's close the public hearing.
10:39:56 Motion to close?
10:39:58 >> Move to close.
10:39:59 >>GWEN MILLER: I make a motion for denial.
10:40:02 In section 27-269, my motion is to deny because the use
10:40:06 is not compatible, contiguous and surrounding use is a
10:40:13 public necessity and the use will not establish a
10:40:16 precedent for low-intensity compatibility in the
10:40:21 surrounding areas.
10:40:22 That's why I am going to move for denial.
10:40:24 >>MARY MULHERN: I'll second that.
10:40:27 I just want to say, you are trying to open a small
10:40:34 But I think this is coming after -- wasn't it last week
10:40:41 where we had a workshop discussion about our alcohol
10:40:43 policy, and what has become very clear is that this
10:40:49 council on a regular basis approves liquor licenses
10:40:59 that are asking for all these waivers.
10:41:01 So basically we have a policy, we have codes that we
10:41:06 make all these exceptions all the time.
10:41:08 And this to me looks like an example of one of those
10:41:12 places where when the idea is to not have liquor sales
10:41:17 adjacent to neighborhoods, we just go ahead and approve
10:41:21 it, because we have -- we get this request from
10:41:27 someone, which is, you know, as a personal request,
10:41:31 it's very compelling.
10:41:32 But I think that we really need to start following our
10:41:36 code more closely.
10:41:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think it's wonderful to follow
10:41:44 our code.
10:41:44 But the problem is the codes aren't realistic, because
10:41:52 this one, 22nd.
10:41:53 The ABC on Kennedy Boulevard, right down the street
10:41:56 here, backs up to residential on north "A" Boulevard,
10:42:01 the same thing on Hillsborough.
10:42:04 It backs up so our codes say don't put these liquor
10:42:07 stores within X number of feet of residential, but we
10:42:10 all know that that's just the way this city is laid
10:42:13 out, and we have our main boulevards backed right up to
10:42:16 residential, and therefore that's why we have waivers.
10:42:19 So, yes, there's a lot of waivers here.
10:42:21 It doesn't look like -- it looks like the store has
10:42:24 been here before.
10:42:26 Ms. Saul-Sena pointed out on the side of the building
10:42:28 it said beer for sale.
10:42:29 So obviously at some point, some prior establishment
10:42:32 had a state liquor license and a city zoning to allow
10:42:35 beer sales.
10:42:36 So there's not necessarily something new.
10:42:39 I think we are talking out of both sides of our mouth.
10:42:42 Because --
10:42:45 >>> Yes.
10:42:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, I'm not asking you.
10:42:47 Because even last night, I was at a discussion about
10:42:50 jobs and small business, and if any one of you were
10:42:54 there, you would have said the same thing I am saying
10:42:57 which is we need to do everything we can to create
10:42:59 jobs, to help small business, et cetera, et cetera.
10:43:03 >> Amen.
10:43:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Knott.
10:43:09 I don't know.
10:43:10 I just think to say absolutely denial sends the wrong
10:43:14 message to this young lady who has her act together,
10:43:17 she has some capital going, she wants to create a mom
10:43:21 and pop store.
10:43:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Adjusts have the grocery store and --
10:43:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay, you are interrupting me.
10:43:31 You are interrupting me, Mrs. Miller.
10:43:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Sorry better that but I --
10:43:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay, okay.
10:43:37 I can just finish in 30 seconds.
10:43:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
10:43:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't think we should do the
10:43:42 absolute flat denial as suggested by my good friend Ms.
10:43:46 I think of what we need to do is tweak it up, give her
10:43:48 a one-year conditional and see how that goes.
10:43:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano.
10:43:53 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: If this motion fails, I'll change
10:43:59 to support the one-year conditional to give these young
10:44:02 people a chance.
10:44:03 I'm a small businessman.
10:44:04 Believe me, you want to see how many stores have closed
10:44:06 in New Tampa.
10:44:08 Two of them right next door to each other.
10:44:10 A frame shop, and a barbecue place.
10:44:14 It's tough out there, believe me.
10:44:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, Mrs. Miller.
10:44:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Chairman, I'm not denying we need a
10:44:22 grocery store in that area.
10:44:23 That will be fine.
10:44:24 But we don't need no more beer in that area.
10:44:26 The police had a time cleaning that area up and that
10:44:30 was one of the places closed down because it was a
10:44:32 problem there.
10:44:33 And I don't want to have to bug the police department
10:44:35 again, but I sure will, and I know we will be bugging
10:44:39 But the grocery store will be fine.
10:44:41 It's fine because they need someplace to buy gross
10:44:45 It's not a big store there to buy it.
10:44:48 They will give you a lot of business with the gross
10:44:50 So that's the only reason I say you can still have a
10:44:52 grocery there.
10:44:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, this is a tough call.
10:44:57 I am not going to support the motion on the floor, Ms.
10:45:00 I am going to give deference to the opportunities with
10:45:03 a one-year conditional.
10:45:05 The unemployment rate now in this area is right at 13%.
10:45:09 On African-Americans it's higher.
10:45:11 It's higher.
10:45:12 Much higher.
10:45:13 And so I will give you the opportunities for one year.
10:45:17 For one year.
10:45:18 And so you can help your family.
10:45:22 It's up to you to make it work, keep that place clean,
10:45:26 and don't keep people hanging around.
10:45:28 I'm telling you.
10:45:29 Because it will come back.
10:45:32 Record your vote on the motion.
10:45:33 Motion to deny.
10:45:35 >>THE CLERK: What I have on the system is the
10:45:42 We need to take a voice roll call.
10:45:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That wasn't her vote.
10:45:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The motion was to deny.
10:45:48 >> But the system shows the ordinance.
10:45:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Voice vote.
10:45:51 >> Let's vote on the motion to deny.
10:46:09 (Roll call vote)
10:46:15 >>THE CLERK: Motion failed with Caetano, Saul-Sena,
10:46:17 Scott, and Dingfelder voting no.
10:46:20 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like to make a motion to
10:46:25 grant with a one-year conditional.
10:46:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I can, Mr. Chairman, is there a
10:46:30 second for that?
10:46:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:46:33 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That would require that the ordinance
10:46:35 have to be revised.
10:46:36 Ms. Kert, would you advise council as to the best way
10:46:38 to proceed?
10:46:39 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
10:46:40 After the next alcohol permit, I can try to have that
10:46:43 done before the end of the day depending on how long
10:46:45 the staff reports are.
10:46:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: To come back as first reading.
10:46:50 >>REBECCA KERT: For first reading.
10:46:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What is this young lady's name again?
10:46:54 Can you come forward, ma'am?
10:46:55 >> Boyd.
10:47:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We are going to give you the
10:47:04 I hope you own this business and this building.
10:47:08 If I find out otherwise, if you have given false
10:47:12 statement to this body --
10:47:14 >>> Oh, no.
10:47:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And I believe that we have a right to
10:47:20 revoke that if a false statement has been given.
10:47:22 >> That's never come up, but that would be committing
10:47:29 perjury which is a chargeable offense.
10:47:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You need to look at that.
10:47:34 So I want you to know, you are given the opportunity.
10:47:38 Make good on it.
10:47:39 >>> I will.
10:47:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Chairman, just to clarify the
10:47:43 record, two things.
10:47:44 One, officer Miller gave testimony last time and TPD
10:47:51 has no objections.
10:47:52 So I just wanted to clarify that.
10:47:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:47:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And the other thing is just so
10:47:57 there's no misunderstanding about the ownership of the
10:47:59 building, you said you had it under contract, and you
10:48:02 hope to be buying it soon.
10:48:06 >> Correct.
10:48:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's move to item --
10:48:10 >> We haven't voted.
10:48:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: To bring it back.
10:48:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: To direct the legal department to do
10:48:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The motion then.
10:48:16 Was there a second?
10:48:17 >> Second.
10:48:18 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want to ask legal.
10:48:20 Hopefully the end of the day is noon today.
10:48:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:48:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And I am going to qualify my vote
10:48:33 I don't speak out of both sides of my mouth.
10:48:35 I'm not asking you or anyone else about not selling
10:48:39 singles, which you are.
10:48:41 This council has always said that, which I have always
10:48:44 disagreed with them.
10:48:45 Thank you very much.
10:48:46 Have a nice day.
10:48:46 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miller and Miranda
10:48:50 voting no.
10:48:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 47.
10:48:59 This is a public hearing.
10:49:01 Does anyone wish to address council?
10:49:02 It's a public hearing.
10:49:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I see none.
10:49:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
10:49:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor say Aye.
10:49:10 Mr. Miranda, number 47.
10:49:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move an ordinance approving a
10:49:14 special use permit SU for alcohol zoning sales on
10:49:20 second reading large venue and making lawful sales
10:49:22 regardless of alcoholic beer, wine and liquor, it looks
10:49:27 like 2-C -- 11-C for consumption on the premises only
10:49:35 to members and guests of members of nonprofit private
10:49:38 clubs on or from that certain lot, plot or tract of
10:49:41 land located at 1610 North Tampa Street, Tampa,
10:49:44 Florida, as more particularly described in section 2
10:49:47 hereof, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
10:49:49 conflict, providing an effective date.
10:49:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a certificated?
10:49:54 Record your vote.
10:49:55 Moved and seconded.
10:50:07 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena being
10:50:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 48.
10:50:13 Item 48.
10:50:13 Anyone from the public wish to address council on item
10:50:19 Motion to close?
10:50:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So moved.
10:50:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?
10:50:22 >> Second.
10:50:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:50:27 Item 48.
10:50:28 Ms. Miller.
10:50:29 >>GWEN MILLER: I move an item for second reading, a
10:50:45 plan amendment future land use map for the property at
10:50:50 3075 north Rocky Point drive east from medium density
10:50:54 residential 35, R-35 to community mixed use-35 --
10:51:03 >> There's a new one.
10:51:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to adopt the following ordinance
10:51:07 future land use map for the property located in the
10:51:08 general vicinity of 3075 north Rocky Point drive east
10:51:11 from medium density residential 35, R-35, to community
10:51:15 mixed use 35, CMU-35, providing for repeal of all
10:51:20 ordinances in conflict, providing for severability,
10:51:23 providing an effective date.
10:51:23 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Second.
10:51:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
10:51:26 Record your vote.
10:51:33 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda and Saul-Sena
10:51:40 being absent.
10:51:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We are down to our staff reports.
10:51:45 Mr. Smith, I see you are here.
10:51:47 Any particular item you are here for?
10:51:52 Chief of staff Darrell Smith.
10:51:57 >>DARRELL SMITH: I was just here with the riverwalk
10:52:00 items that were pulled by Ms. Mulhern, item 39 and 40.
10:52:06 I have riverwalk manager Lee Hoffman here available to
10:52:09 speak to the technical aspects of this resolution.
10:52:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:52:13 We will take those items first.
10:52:14 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
10:52:16 Mr. Smith, you can probably answer most of my
10:52:21 And only a couple of technical questions.
10:52:24 It's really more about the budget.
10:52:32 The project is supposed to call 2.5 million, the total,
10:52:36 for this portion.
10:52:38 And the city gets reimbursed 1.5 million from the local
10:52:43 option gas tax from FDOT.
10:52:46 Is that correct?
10:52:48 >>> Yes.
10:52:49 >>MARY MULHERN: There's one million there.
10:52:52 Really this is my main question.
10:52:55 We approved in this year's budget 350,000 toward the
10:53:01 riverwalk under this, and under that line item.
10:53:06 And I want to know where we are expecting the remaining
10:53:10 $650,000 to come from.
10:53:13 You know, where is that coming from?
10:53:15 >> I'll let Lee Hoffman address that in detail, but
10:53:19 it's from the friends of the riverwalk, and a grant
10:53:21 that we received from the feds.
10:53:26 Lee would be a better one to be speak to that in
10:53:28 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
10:53:31 >> Lee Hoffman, development manager, City of Tampa.
10:53:36 Yes, ma'am, that's correct.
10:53:36 >>MARY MULHERN: How much is the grant, and where is
10:53:39 the grants coming from?
10:53:40 >>> The grant is an economic development grant that we
10:53:43 got from economic -- from HUD, and that's $200,000 that
10:53:49 will go against this, in addition to community funds
10:53:53 through friends of the riverwalk for 350,000.
10:53:55 >> Okay.
10:53:57 And the HUD grant, was that specifically for the
10:54:01 >>> Yes, ma'am.
10:54:02 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to see the backup on
10:54:09 Is that something we already have that money?
10:54:11 >>> Yes, ma'am.
10:54:12 That was an '08 allocation to us, and we are going to
10:54:16 place that against -- it was specifically for marine
10:54:20 construction and we had a little delay on our
10:54:22 construction because FDOT rules changed just a little
10:54:26 bit but did not allow us to build it when we wanted to.
10:54:29 That has since been addressed through FDOT and that's
10:54:32 what the agreement is today that will allow us to go
10:54:34 ahead and spend this money to construct it and then
10:54:37 reimburse in 2012 from FDOT.
10:54:40 >> So that 200 is separate.
10:54:43 >>> Yes, ma'am.
10:54:47 >> So do you have the 350,000 from the friends or is
10:54:50 that something we are hoping to raise?
10:54:52 >> No, it is there.
10:54:54 It is just a matter of appropriating it in the account.
10:54:57 I addressed that with the Board of Directors on the
10:55:00 riverwalk side.
10:55:01 >> So you are telling me we do have that money, the
10:55:03 friends of the riverwalk does have the $350,000 right
10:55:07 >>> That's correct.
10:55:07 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
10:55:13 I guess that's -- my other question, it sounds like
10:55:20 this is all ---you are giving me the answers that I
10:55:24 needed and it sounds like it's all pretty much
10:55:27 earmarked basically for the riverwalk.
10:55:33 As long as that HUD money is in hand, and it was for
10:55:35 the riverwalk, that's fine.
10:55:37 >> Yes, ma'am, it is.
10:55:38 >> Okay.
10:55:40 Another question so that we know what we are approving.
10:55:45 What specific kind of work -- this is the technical
10:55:48 question -- are you going to be doing?
10:55:50 >> This is the actual construction of the riverwalk
10:55:52 that goes underneath Brorein.
10:55:55 We have completed all the way from the Channelside area
10:55:57 all the way to USF park underneath the Crosstown to
10:56:02 So this is the next piece in that sequence and it will
10:56:05 go from USF park underneath Brorein and over to what
10:56:09 used to be called the --
10:56:12 >> How are you doing that?
10:56:13 Are you building out over the river?
10:56:15 >>> Yes, ma'am.
10:56:15 It actually goes over the river and under the bridge
10:56:20 almost exactly like Platt Street.
10:56:24 >> And I had a question for Mr. Smith, since this came
10:56:26 up unrelated, was about the LEED certified building.
10:56:31 We approved that Spring Hill building.
10:56:39 >>DARRELL SMITH: I would like Steve Daignault address
10:56:41 that specifically.
10:56:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have first the riverwalk questions.
10:56:47 Let's stay on that for a minute.
10:56:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Not for you.
10:56:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We are still on the riverwalk.
10:56:54 >>MARY MULHERN: Wait, I just have something I have to
10:56:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You yield the floor to Ms. Saul-Sena
10:57:01 and then come back to you.
10:57:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you very much.
10:57:04 Last Friday, I want to tell you, I felt so much safer
10:57:10 because of the under the Platt Street connection which
10:57:13 is so attractive and so safe, and it was such a
10:57:18 qualitative improvement from previous years when there
10:57:21 wasn't a safe way to get from the Bayshore side to the
10:57:26 downtown side.
10:57:27 I want to compliment you on that and I want to ask you
10:57:30 briefly, what is the construction schedule for the
10:57:32 Platt Street bridge?
10:57:33 I know that for three or four months it will be under
10:57:37 >> The bridge itself?
10:57:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Platt Street.
10:57:43 Do you know when that's beginning?
10:57:47 >>> That's a county project.
10:57:48 I have not heard recently when they expect to do that.
10:57:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Maybe Mr. Daignault fault can
10:57:54 I wanted to compliment you on the under-the-bridge
10:57:58 It's so attractive.
10:58:00 >> Another said finally the downtown is a place where I
10:58:05 feel bike ago round.
10:58:07 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you for coming back to the
10:58:11 riverwalk, Linda, because my trustee assistant, my
10:58:18 brain pointed out to me we are still missing $100,000
10:58:21 in the total here.
10:58:22 So where is that coming from?
10:58:23 Because the total from HUD and from a the friends of
10:58:25 the riverwalk is 550, not 650.
10:58:30 >>> Yes, ma'am I still have another 100,000 in the
10:58:34 budget from last time.
10:58:36 If you will remember, last year, you approved $350,000.
10:58:39 The year before that was 210,000.
10:58:41 So there's some money still in my CIP account to cover
10:58:44 And we expect it to come into that a little less than
10:58:49 Hopefully it will.
10:58:49 But we have enough money to cover it if it ends up
10:58:52 being 2.5 from past CIP budget.
10:58:54 >>MARY MULHERN: I just think it's interesting that
10:58:59 none of this, as far as I know, is in the budget we
10:59:02 >>> Yes, ma'am.
10:59:07 >>MARY MULHERN: It was all in the budget?
10:59:09 >>> Yes, ma'am.
10:59:09 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't know.
10:59:12 I mean, I do remember asking Mr. Smith during the
10:59:14 budget how much money was going toward the riverwalk,
10:59:17 and --
10:59:18 >>> In '09 it was 210,000 N.10 it was 350,000.
10:59:23 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.
10:59:24 But you just added that 650, which I don't know that
10:59:29 was in the budget we passed?
10:59:31 >>> Yes, ma'am.
10:59:34 In '09 you passed 210,000. In '10 you passed 350,000.
10:59:41 And if I take 450,000 and add it to the other items
10:59:44 that we talked about previously, the grants, and the
10:59:47 friends of riverwalk, that ends up being 2.5 million.
10:59:50 >>MARY MULHERN: So you are going to take that 100,000
11:00:00 from CIP money.
11:00:04 That's a change, though, that we are going to have to
11:00:09 It isn't budgeted at this point for that.
11:00:13 >> When we do the financials for the bid process, all
11:00:17 that will be outlined, and from the city's standpoint,
11:00:21 we'll take 350,000 from the '10 CIP budget from
11:00:28 riverwalk and take 100,000 from the '09 budget, and
11:00:32 that will be 450,000 that we need to supplement the
11:00:35 grants and the friends of riverwalk.
11:00:37 And it equals 2.5 million.
11:00:39 >> Right.
11:00:40 My concern -- and this isn't for you, this is for Mr.
11:00:44 Smith -- is that I feel like when the council passes
11:00:49 the budget, we didn't approve this stuff.
11:00:52 This is all things that are, you know, kind of coming
11:00:55 to us, after our opportunity to approve the budget, and
11:01:04 I think it should be laid out at budget time if we are
11:01:08 planning to be using all the money, especially we are
11:01:15 taking advantage of the local option gas tax which
11:01:20 could be used for any transportation projects, and it's
11:01:24 a bit of a stretch to be using it for, you know, going
11:01:27 under the river.
11:01:28 So I don't know.
11:01:32 When budget time comes around again, and I'm asking
11:01:35 these questions, I guess I have to be more specific.
11:01:44 >>DARRELL SMITH: I would like to respond to that.
11:01:46 Darrell Smith, chief of staff.
11:01:48 Just to clarify you previously approved in '09 CIP
11:01:52 money for riverwalk purposes, and you approved 350,000
11:01:55 in the 2010 budget for riverwalk in this budget, and
11:02:02 the friends of the riverwalk funds will come from out
11:02:07 side to supplement the funding for the project as will
11:02:13 the federal grant.
11:02:16 The two items were not in the budget, nor would they
11:02:19 typically be there.
11:02:21 Gas tax money is also a very important source for
11:02:25 pedestrian sources, so that we can not only drive on
11:02:30 roads that can take people out of vehicles, put them
11:02:35 into the pedestrian paths as they recreate and front
11:02:43 >>MARY MULHERN: I understand that.
11:02:44 I just appreciate all the clarification, and, you know,
11:02:52 I think that will be okay.
11:02:53 I'll ask more questions at our next budget hearings.
11:02:58 I just want to say this, that we are in tough times.
11:03:00 I mean, just a lot of people just are losing their
11:03:03 jobs, and the money is scarce, and we have bridges that
11:03:07 need fixing and roads thatch need work.
11:03:10 So --
11:03:14 >>> This is a 2.5 million construction project that
11:03:17 will provide jobs for the local economy.
11:03:19 >>GWEN MILLER:
11:03:20 >>MARY MULHERN: Provide jobs.
11:03:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder.
11:03:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: In the bigger picture of the
11:03:26 riverwalk, I think there's nothing hidden, because
11:03:35 these things come in.
11:03:36 But they sort of come in piecemeal.
11:03:39 And that's no criticism of you.
11:03:41 You have done a great job.
11:03:42 I think the best thing to do -- and I'll leave this up
11:03:44 to you to schedule -- but why don't you try to schedule
11:03:47 to come back maybe during one of our workshops, give us
11:03:49 15 or 20 minutes, make a full presentation on the
11:03:52 progress that we have made over the last seven years in
11:03:55 continuing this riverwalk.
11:03:56 This riverwalk wasn't started by this administration.
11:03:58 It was started by prior admissions, we have a great
11:04:01 river, and we need to create a great riverwalk.
11:04:05 So why don't you come in, give us a presentation not
11:04:08 only on the success that we have made and the segments
11:04:10 that we build, but also give us the dollar amounts
11:04:13 associated with each one, okay.
11:04:15 Break it out.
11:04:16 The Channelside segment, you know, was built, in this
11:04:20 particular year.
11:04:21 I'm not talking down to the penny.
11:04:23 But 100,000 came from this.
11:04:25 A 5th hundred thousand came from this.
11:04:27 1 million came from this.
11:04:29 And just walk us down the river and say this is the
11:04:31 segment we are building, this is how we are building,
11:04:34 this is what we paid for, the community deserves to
11:04:36 know that.
11:04:36 I think a lot of the money has come from the federal
11:04:38 government, has come from the state government, some of
11:04:40 it comes from local government.
11:04:41 Let's just air it out, so we don't have as many
11:04:45 confusions and questions.
11:04:46 And then that way, I think it would be a good exercise,
11:04:50 because generally speaking, this council has been
11:04:52 supportive of it.
11:04:53 Obviously the mayor is supportive of it.
11:04:55 And at the end of the day, I think we'll all look back
11:04:59 and say it was a good project.
11:05:00 >>> I totally agree blood pressure reviewing the past
11:05:05 and we can include where we are today what the
11:05:07 immediate goals are for the future.
11:05:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll let you all schedule that.
11:05:13 >>MARY MULHERN: One more thing.
11:05:15 I just got this information.
11:05:18 So -- sorry.
11:05:24 I guess this is my last question.
11:05:29 We closed out the money for the '09 budget, right?
11:05:32 >> Closed the fund balance.
11:05:35 >>MARY MULHERN: So we are taking this out of fund
11:05:37 It's not still in that account.
11:05:39 >>> It wags earmarked for the accounts, year end to
11:05:42 close the fund balance and it would take another
11:05:45 resolution to move it from fund balance back into --
11:05:49 >>> Right.
11:05:50 We are going to have to move all of that stuff around.
11:05:52 So we didn't approve that when we approved the budget,
11:05:55 is what I am trying to say.
11:05:56 And --
11:05:58 >> Approved it in the 08-09 budget.
11:06:04 >> But when we hear what the fund balance is, and we,
11:06:07 now, we are hearing all of this, this is not part of
11:06:09 the budget.
11:06:10 I mean, you have to add that money back in, right?
11:06:13 >> Yes, ma'am.
11:06:15 But it is very normal.
11:06:17 And that's the way the CIP budget works day in and day
11:06:21 out year to year.
11:06:21 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
11:06:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:06:31 That was on item 39 and 40, those two items.
11:06:41 Motion to approve item 39 and 40.
11:06:44 >> So moved.
11:06:45 >> Second.
11:06:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
11:06:48 All in favor?
11:06:49 >>MARY MULHERN: Nay.
11:06:50 >>GWEN MILLER:
11:06:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Then an item from councilman
11:06:57 Item 24.
11:06:58 >> We were just talking about it.
11:07:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You can't talk from the audience, sir.
11:07:03 You have to be on the record.
11:07:04 >>GWEN MILLER: You have to come to the mike.
11:07:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
11:07:09 Item 24.
11:07:10 I was a little confused.
11:07:12 And Ms. Brickhouse and Mr. Fletcher will clear up my
11:07:16 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: City attorney.
11:07:19 What is before you on item 24 is an agreement to
11:07:23 terminate the agreement previously negotiated between
11:07:27 TECO and the city for sale of power from the MacKay
11:07:35 It had a precondition in that agreement that if
11:07:38 approved by the PSC before it becomes effective, Public
11:07:42 Service Commission regulates rates for TECO.
11:07:46 They deferred this numerous times, and failed to take
11:07:49 action, and indicated they will likely not be approving
11:07:53 So we have recommended with TECO to terminate that
11:07:58 We will seek to sell our power to other amenities that
11:08:02 have more flexibility in their rates.
11:08:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda.
11:08:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me tell what you "good" means
11:08:14 for me.
11:08:15 We are adamant about putting these two agreements
11:08:19 Some of us.
11:08:20 Some of us said, no, leave them separate.
11:08:23 We made another mistake.
11:08:25 Once you put them together, and correct me anytime you
11:08:29 want because I'm a novice.
11:08:33 I'm a novice but I know just enough to be dangerous.
11:08:40 When we put these together, it falls where?
11:08:42 The Public Service Commission.
11:08:48 They say, why are you paying the City of Tampa these
11:08:50 kind of rates?
11:08:51 That means that the rest of the taxpayers are
11:08:53 subsidizing the city.
11:08:54 Am I correct?
11:09:00 I'm saying that the Public Service Commission said, why
11:09:03 are you paying what you are paying to the City of
11:09:09 >> yes, the public service reaction I believe was this
11:09:12 was too good of a deal for the city for them to
11:09:15 >> In their minds they said why should the rate payers
11:09:17 subsidize the city.
11:09:19 Am I correct?
11:09:20 In essence?
11:09:21 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Could you look at it that way.
11:09:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
11:09:25 That's a half yes and a half no.
11:09:27 I appreciate that.
11:09:28 That's what you get paid to do.
11:09:30 So then immaterial telling myself, let me see how smart
11:09:33 we were.
11:09:34 We wanted to tell what to do, when to do it, and didn't
11:09:37 have the authority to tell them what to do, when to do
11:09:40 it and how to dot and I'm not an employee of TECO. I
11:09:43 said that then.
11:09:45 But my common sense told me, this that's the Public
11:09:48 Service Commission.
11:09:49 Leave that alone.
11:09:51 We tainted it.
11:09:54 It became part of the contract.
11:09:55 Now guess what.
11:09:58 At the end of the day, whenever that day comes,
11:10:02 something called wheeling.
11:10:04 How are you going to carry that electricity from where
11:10:07 it's at in our plan that produces enough energy for
11:10:12 about 15,000 homes a day to wherever it's going?
11:10:15 You carry it in a wheelbarrow?
11:10:18 Absolutely not.
11:10:20 You carry it in TECO's lines.
11:10:23 Guess who is going to make a net profit.
11:10:27 Did I hear you say TECO?
11:10:29 Because I saw it went through your minds, it said TECO.
11:10:34 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Under federal law they are
11:10:36 required to transmit it from our facility to another
11:10:40 wholesale prior.
11:10:41 By federal law there is a tariff that they will get for
11:10:43 that wheeling.
11:10:46 >> Right.
11:10:47 That's calling wheeling.
11:10:48 I looked up wheeling yesterday in the dictionary but I
11:10:50 just couldn't read it.
11:10:52 I didn't have my glasses.
11:10:53 So then I am telling myself, isn't this nice?
11:10:56 We strung this out, created a furor in the city, and
11:11:01 the losers are going to be us because now we have got
11:11:03 to pay the wheeling price, and we have to sell to the
11:11:07 somebody else, wherever they may be, and in my mind I
11:11:10 am thinking one of two may be it.
11:11:14 TECO never needed us.
11:11:18 This low reduction of water and electricity because
11:11:22 people are hurting.
11:11:23 So now instead of having to buy it, they don't have to
11:11:25 buy it.
11:11:26 They may not even want it and have to buy it now.
11:11:29 And again I am not speaking for TECO. Speaking for me,
11:11:33 as a taxpayer first.
11:11:35 So now we go through all of that.
11:11:37 We go through that exercise.
11:11:38 We look good in the eyes of a few.
11:11:43 And now look what happens.
11:11:44 This is the same thing as that $400,000 settlement.
11:11:51 And my opinion -- and I am entitled to a mistake, and
11:11:55 if I make one, I admit to it.
11:11:57 But in my opinion we keep doing this.
11:11:59 We talk about jobs.
11:12:01 We talk about -- we are ruining ourselves.
11:12:05 We meddle in things that we don't have the authority to
11:12:09 And I appreciate you and your staff at times say, hey,
11:12:15 that's none of your business, you can't regulate that,
11:12:18 you don't have the authority.
11:12:19 But now who are we going to sell it to?
11:12:21 I'm just thinking of one.
11:12:25 Because they have another entity.
11:12:30 So when are they going to pay?
11:12:32 How long do they need it for?
11:12:33 And what are we paying in attorney's fees?
11:12:39 I'm not here to embarrass anybody.
11:12:41 But I guarantee by the time you figure out what we pay
11:12:44 in attorney fees to work this thing out, it's in the
11:12:47 hundreds of thousands of dollars.
11:12:51 And who gains?
11:12:53 Not the taxpayers.
11:12:55 They are the losers.
11:12:58 That's all I have got to say, Mr. Chairman.
11:12:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
11:13:02 Any other questions by council?
11:13:04 If not then we'll move -- I'm sorry.
11:13:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just want to say that the Public
11:13:08 Service Commission, I think, was not helpful to the
11:13:13 City of Tampa or the citizens of Tampa.
11:13:16 And I think our legal department has done a decent job,
11:13:19 and I hope that the next administration is somehow
11:13:21 better able to re-look at our agreements to be better
11:13:26 for the community.
11:13:27 >> Just address two items.
11:13:31 One, just for clarity, because we mentioned tying
11:13:35 agreement agreements together.
11:13:36 This does not disturb the franchise agreement that was
11:13:38 approved by council.
11:13:39 This is a separate independent agreement.
11:13:42 And our view was at the time that it was approved by
11:13:46 council, submitted to the PSC, that it did meet the
11:13:49 legal test because it wags below the cost what TECO is
11:13:54 spending on other items for power, and that's why we
11:13:57 felt that it was legally appropriate to do that.
11:13:59 They obviously didn't agree with that.
11:14:01 So that's where we are today.
11:14:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Going by memory, if I remember,
11:14:07 they had to buy a certain percent.
11:14:10 I don't know if it was 70, 80, 90 of whatever we
11:14:15 Now we are going to have to find a buyer for whatever
11:14:18 amount, 70, 80, 90% of that.
11:14:21 And if you don't have a buyer for that --
11:14:26 >> Be if we don't have a buyer for that, then we will
11:14:28 be able to sell it actually to TECO.
11:14:31 >> At what rate?
11:14:32 >> Well, at the rate PSC was trying to get us to sell
11:14:35 >> So a contract would have been separately, the
11:14:38 citizens would have won.
11:14:41 I didn't hear you.
11:14:46 Say anything you want but say yes.
11:14:48 >> I don't agree with that but I don't really want to
11:14:51 argue with you.
11:14:51 >> You don't disagree with it either, do you?
11:14:55 I'm having a little discussion with you one on one.
11:14:58 There's no cameras here.
11:15:00 [ Laughter ]
11:15:01 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Well, in my opinion, the agreement
11:15:04 that we worked out with TECO at the rate we were being
11:15:06 paid will not materially effect anybody's power rates.
11:15:09 It's such a small portion of what TECO uses that TECO
11:15:15 demands to meet their needs.
11:15:16 It will not affect anyone's rates.
11:15:18 >> I agree with that.
11:15:19 However, it will affect the city's income.
11:15:20 >> Yes.
11:15:21 >> That's what I wanted to get around.
11:15:24 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Yes.
11:15:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 50, we need to receive and file.
11:15:28 That is the report from chuck Walters, stormwater.
11:15:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: 24.
11:15:41 Miranda I am going to move it because there's no
11:15:43 options here.
11:15:43 I mean, it's not in my committee.
11:15:46 And I hope that Ms. Mulhern doesn't hold it against me
11:15:50 but there's no options here.
11:15:51 They told us what to do.
11:15:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Dingfelder.
11:15:55 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:15:58 Item 50.
11:16:00 Motion to receive.
11:16:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
11:16:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:16:06 >> Ye second.
11:16:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Pass on to the stormwater
11:16:15 department my appreciation for them working on this
11:16:18 But now the stormwater department, I guess, is -- it's
11:16:23 going to a different department, correct?
11:16:25 Going to public works.
11:16:27 So I just want to make sure that there's somebody
11:16:35 specifically who is going to be following through on
11:16:37 this Chambree issue.
11:16:44 I don't want to the slip.
11:16:45 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Public works and utility services.
11:16:48 The project will continue on.
11:16:50 It will keep on schedule.
11:16:52 >> So I can look to you personally to make sure?
11:16:56 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Yes, sir.
11:16:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
11:16:58 >>MARY MULHERN: Can I ask a question?
11:17:01 I'm sorry I stepped out.
11:17:02 So did you ask something about the --
11:17:12 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: What is the question?
11:17:16 >>MARY MULHERN: The park hill community center.
11:17:18 Is that going to be LEED certified?
11:17:20 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: It is going to be designed to meet
11:17:22 LEED silver certification.
11:17:24 That's correct.
11:17:24 >>MARY MULHERN: So what John says -- hold on.
11:17:29 And the mayor did say that all of our new building was
11:17:31 going to be, I thought I heard it, LEED certified.
11:17:36 So isn't that our policy then?
11:17:41 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Council member, if I'm not
11:17:43 mistaken, our current ordinance requires that they be
11:17:46 LEED certifiable.
11:17:48 By that, that they are designed to that level.
11:17:54 It would be designed -- they will be constructed to
11:17:58 LEED silver level.
11:17:59 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, the mayor didn't say that.
11:18:02 She said that it would be LEED certified gold.
11:18:05 Is that what she said?
11:18:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It's in this recommendation.
11:18:10 >>MARY MULHERN: In the recommendation.
11:18:11 >> Well, it wasn't a recommendation.
11:18:14 She told the committee that a that was our policy.
11:18:19 So I'm going to bring it up in new business.
11:18:23 So we change our ordinance to reflect that.
11:18:26 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: If it's gold, then it will be at
11:18:32 that level.
11:18:33 But it will be again constructed, designed and
11:18:35 constructed to meet that level of certification.
11:18:38 We will not have a certified piece of paper that says
11:18:41 that it has been certified by the LEED people --
11:18:47 >>GWEN MILLER:
11:18:48 >>MARY MULHERN: I understand what you are saying
11:18:50 because that's what we passed in the ordinance but the
11:18:52 mayor went beyond that, she did not make those -- you
11:18:56 know, she didn't say it would be up to those standards.
11:18:58 She said our new buildings would be LEED certified.
11:19:01 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Again, we have been, even before
11:19:08 that ordinance was approved, we have been increasing
11:19:12 the efficiency and trying to pursue that level of
11:19:18 As you all know and have said, even today, these are
11:19:21 tough times.
11:19:22 So if you even have to spend an extra 30 or 40 or
11:19:26 $50,000 on a project that's a 2.5 million project to
11:19:30 get a piece of paper, that may not be, in my opinion,
11:19:35 the best solution or the best expenditure of funds.
11:19:39 So we are again pursuing the letter of the ordinance,
11:19:43 and we are again designing and constructing to that
11:19:47 LEED certified level, but we are not pursuing the LEEDs
11:19:53 approval, and piece of paper.
11:19:54 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
11:19:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Along those same lines, you are
11:20:03 going to construct the building.
11:20:06 That meets all the new requirements, as I get it from
11:20:09 the conversation I have been hearing sitting here, to a
11:20:12 level of something, whether silver or gold or bronze or
11:20:17 titanium or whatever it is.
11:20:19 What you are not going to do -- and I am going to ask
11:20:21 the question -- how much does it cost to have something
11:20:24 certified something?
11:20:27 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Sir, the answer it varies depending
11:20:30 on the size and complexity.
11:20:31 The Spring Hill project, for example, would certainly
11:20:33 be cheaper than, say, the Tampa Museum of Art.
11:20:37 And it depends on the size and the type of materials
11:20:40 that you are using, and the things that you are using
11:20:43 for your points, whether it's the roof, the air
11:20:45 conditioning system, the type of things you are using
11:20:48 to get -- add up to your points.
11:20:52 Things like access to transportation are part of the
11:20:58 point system.
11:20:59 How close are you to transit?
11:21:00 How close to bicycle paths?
11:21:03 Those sorts of things all add up.
11:21:05 So again our staff has gone and had LEEDs training, and
11:21:10 they review, and we hire architects and engineers who
11:21:15 have LEED certifications to do the design.
11:21:18 We make sure that we have again the accrued points to
11:21:22 meet what's in our ordinance.
11:21:23 But we do not pursue, again with the LEEDs folks, the
11:21:27 actual certification.
11:21:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: In other words, you meet all the
11:21:33 criteria of whatever you are going to build, other than
11:21:37 you are saying, I don't want to spend the money to get
11:21:39 it certified something.
11:21:41 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Correct.
11:21:44 And just to be clear, it's not as simple as when we are
11:21:47 done we send off a piece of paper and they put a stamp
11:21:50 on it and send it back.
11:21:51 It requires that they test, that they are there on the
11:21:55 ground during construction, so it's an extra layer of
11:21:57 inspection throughout the project that you pay for,
11:22:01 just like civil engineering and inspection.
11:22:03 It's an additional layer of inspection throughout the
11:22:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Dingfelder, then
11:22:12 Councilwoman Mulhern.
11:22:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Since we are a community of laws,
11:22:18 let me read one.
11:22:19 The ordinance that we passed says as related to
11:22:22 government buildings, any buildings in excess of
11:22:25 5,000 -- excuse me, all the construction of buildings
11:22:29 regardless of in excess of 5,000 square feet of air
11:22:32 conditioning space shall be built to satisfy the USGB
11:22:38 LEED certified standard.
11:22:42 Then we go on and talk about our incentive program in
11:22:44 the private sector.
11:22:46 Then in the private sector, we say property own hoarse
11:22:50 receive a permit for single family multifamily
11:22:53 instituted may be eligible if the structure constructed
11:22:56 is appropriately certified as a green structure by the
11:22:59 USGBC or the USGBC.
11:23:04 You know, there is a slight difference in the wording
11:23:08 but I'm really not sure that there's that difference in
11:23:10 the intent.
11:23:12 And, frankly, like I said, we are not going to stop the
11:23:15 buildings that are under construction, that we have
11:23:17 already approved, et cetera.
11:23:18 But I think we need to have a debate and discussion
11:23:21 about what the intent was.
11:23:22 And I think that just like the feds don't equivocate
11:23:26 and the state government doesn't equivocate, both the
11:23:29 state and the feds that both said we are going to do
11:23:32 LEED, silver on our new buildings, and frankly, I think
11:23:36 that's what this council's intent was two years ago.
11:23:38 So let's discuss it another day.
11:23:40 But that's what the ordinance says today.
11:23:41 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to point out one thing
11:23:49 when you talk about the costs.
11:23:51 I believe that we have at least one, if not two or more
11:23:54 people, on staff now who have LEED certification.
11:23:58 So maybe whatever this cost as being so onerous, we
11:24:06 have trained people who have can do some of that so I
11:24:10 don't think it's as onerous as you are making it sound.
11:24:13 The recommendation from the task force, the citizens,
11:24:18 mayor's TECO task force, the city should continue to
11:24:21 implement energy conservation practices such as LEED,
11:24:24 silver or the Florida building council recommendation
11:24:26 on all city projects and programs.
11:24:29 So I think I would support O it does say "or."
11:24:41 I think I would be in support of revising our ordinance
11:24:44 and I would maybe ask Mr. Shelby to work on that for
11:24:47 us, to just require LEED certification.
11:24:51 That's a motion.
11:24:52 >> Second.
11:24:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I am not going to support the
11:24:57 motion, if I may.
11:24:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The motion for workshop or to pass
11:25:02 I don't think I want to pass it yet.
11:25:04 We need to talk about it.
11:25:05 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm asking him to come back with a
11:25:09 revision so we can talk about it.
11:25:11 So whatever you want to do -- I guess as a workshop.
11:25:14 Do we have to do it as a workshop?
11:25:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: July 15th when we are gone.
11:25:20 >>MARY MULHERN: Do it as a workshop.
11:25:24 >> To discuss all of the recommendations.
11:25:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, it's not on our agenda today.
11:25:29 What I would suggest is you think about it and bring it
11:25:31 up under new business if you want a workshop.
11:25:36 My goal is to get us out by 12 and you all are not
11:25:40 helping me today.
11:25:47 Did we move that item, item 50?
11:25:52 >>THE CLERK: You moved the motion to receive and file.
11:25:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:25:57 Item 51.
11:25:58 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: I'm sorry I wasn't in here, but I
11:26:04 asked Shirley.
11:26:05 She's not passed if you passed number 7 which was the
11:26:07 Spring Hill.
11:26:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
11:26:09 That's done.
11:26:09 >>> Thank you.
11:26:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:26:14 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Item 51 is a suggestion,
11:26:20 recommendation that we look at traffic calming measures
11:26:24 between MacDill and Bayshore on some of those
11:26:28 Council members, we have looked at that repeatedly.
11:26:31 We think that putting signs up there is not going to
11:26:34 stop cut-through traffic.
11:26:35 We can put some signs up, and try that during the
11:26:39 certain hours.
11:26:40 There's in a right turn during certain hours.
11:26:42 We have been out and melt with colonel Barnes and his
11:26:48 staff at MacDill Air Force Base.
11:26:50 They have a number of issues in the morning getting
11:26:51 folks into their gates.
11:26:53 They believe that they have about a 15 to 20-minute
11:26:56 time for the queue to get in which quite frankly isn't
11:26:59 the worst time sitting in a queue that we are aware of
11:27:04 around the city.
11:27:04 So we are going to continue working with them.
11:27:06 We have actually improved some things, adjusted the
11:27:10 timing of the lights there at MacDill and inner
11:27:13 bay, and that seems to have helped them a lot.
11:27:16 They have opened up the gate over at tanker way to
11:27:20 civilian vehicles as well as to construction equipment,
11:27:23 and that helps them a little bit.
11:27:25 We are also exploring -- they have got big construction
11:27:30 project, but they are telling us that they don't really
11:27:32 expect a bigger increase, a huge increase in numbers of
11:27:35 people coming in there.
11:27:36 So that's a good thing.
11:27:38 But again we will put up a couple signs on this no
11:27:44 right turn at certain times of the day, and see if that
11:27:47 helps the situation.
11:27:49 Again we'll watch and make sure we don't have people
11:27:51 doing lots of I turns and stuff and impacting the
11:27:54 citizens, but we'll see if we can't improve things on
11:27:56 that neighborhood for a little bit.
11:27:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We don't need to take action on that.
11:28:03 Thank you; Mr. Daignault.
11:28:08 Item 53.
11:28:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe that's councilman Miranda's
11:28:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:28:14 Then we'll hold that up till he comes back.
11:28:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Number 54 is receive and file.
11:28:22 The report.
11:28:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to receive and file.
11:28:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
11:28:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor say Aye.
11:28:28 All right.
11:28:29 We'll have Mrs. Boyd's petition come back.
11:28:33 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You have an ordinance for first
11:28:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: On 54, Mr. Chairman, I appreciate
11:28:39 the motion.
11:28:39 I got an e-mail from Mr. Spearman, and I think you all
11:28:43 got the written report.
11:28:45 A month ago we pulled this item to discuss it because
11:28:47 they had a single source for jet fuel as a single
11:28:51 bidder and we went ahead and passed it because we were
11:28:54 in a bind and they said they needed the jet fuel and
11:28:57 couldn't hold them up.
11:28:58 But I subsequently found out that there are two vendors
11:29:00 that theoretically could provide -- that are providing
11:29:03 jet fuel to other companies at TIA.
11:29:08 And Greg said the last I heard from Greg was he said we
11:29:12 were going to contact them and see if they were
11:29:14 interested in bidding the next time we bid it.
11:29:16 I said, well, if they are, then we need to plug into
11:29:19 So I wanted to pat council on the back a little bit.
11:29:25 We need to be diligent on these types of items.
11:29:27 And make sure that staff is dotting the Is and
11:29:33 crossing the Ts.
11:29:35 >>MARY MULHERN: Thanks for bringing that up.
11:29:37 I think Linda brought that up.
11:29:39 My question is that there's more than one pipeline.
11:29:41 Isn't there more than one pipeline?
11:29:43 We share it?
11:29:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The ordinance.
11:29:53 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: An ordinance approving a special
11:29:56 using permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales small
11:30:01 venue containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight and
11:30:04 not more than 14% by weight and wines regardless of
11:30:07 alcohol content beer and wine 2(APS) in sealed
11:30:11 containers for consumption off premises only at or from
11:30:15 that certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 3209
11:30:19 north 22nd street, Tampa, Florida, as more particularly
11:30:23 described in section 2 hereof, providing for repeal of
11:30:26 all ordinances in conflict, providing an effective
11:30:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And that includes the one-year
11:30:33 conditional and the 10 p.m. no sale, I think it is.
11:30:36 Is that accurate?
11:30:36 >> Second.
11:30:40 >>REBECCA KERT: It is a one-year conditional in the
11:30:42 And the no sale after 10 p.m. is on the site plan.
11:30:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Seven days a week?
11:30:50 >>REBECCA KERT: Seven days a week.
11:30:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Sundays, too?
11:30:53 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just a reminder that this is back to
11:31:00 you on first reading, and this would not be adopted,
11:31:03 would not take effect until after the adoption of
11:31:06 public hearing in two weeks.
11:31:08 As long as the petitioner is aware of that as well.
11:31:10 >>MARY MULHERN: You are just saying this is first
11:31:13 reading, right?
11:31:14 I just wanted to say that since Mr. Miranda stepped
11:31:19 out, I hope he will be here in a year from now to
11:31:22 provide the institutional memory.
11:31:28 Who knows who will be here.
11:31:29 So it will be interesting to see when it comes up
11:31:35 It's a whole new hearing.
11:31:38 Is that correct, Mrs. Kert?
11:31:42 >> Well, what is the policy of council after they go
11:31:52 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Hags to be compensated for that.
11:31:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We couldn't go before county
11:32:01 commission, on council for two years or address
11:32:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You can do it as a citizen as long
11:32:11 as you are not representing anybody.
11:32:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So if there are issues and problems, I
11:32:18 will personally come down and speak on this issue
11:32:20 against it.
11:32:32 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, would you support it if he --
11:32:34 you are not supporting it.
11:32:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion.
11:32:37 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:32:42 >>THE CLERK: I have Miller and Miranda voting no.
11:32:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:32:48 We are down to new business, I believe.
11:32:50 >>THE CLERK: Second reading on April 15th at 9:30
11:32:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What time?
11:32:58 >>THE CLERK: 9:30.
11:32:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, Mrs. Boyd, you have to come back
11:33:03 again on the 15th.
11:33:04 >> 53.
11:33:07 >> Who is that gentleman?
11:33:09 That's your husband?
11:33:10 >>> Mr. Chairman, this is on the item related to
11:33:35 towing, and researching that issue at the request of
11:33:39 council, what I have given, had Mr. Shelby didn't is
11:33:44 something that has a starting point to work on we
11:33:48 thought would be possible to address the issue that was
11:33:52 articulated about not essential towing, being towed to
11:33:58 a particular location, unsecured, left there while
11:34:01 additional vehicles are towed before taken to the
11:34:04 state-approved secure lot.
11:34:07 And it does appear to be an issue being wrestled with
11:34:15 out throughout the city.
11:34:16 We could require that it be taken directly to the
11:34:19 secured state licensed lot, should address that
11:34:23 corralling issue.
11:34:25 What we would recommend is before council take action
11:34:28 on it, if it's all right with you all to circulate that
11:34:31 to the towing industry, the PTC, other effective folks,
11:34:35 to make sure that it fits with the currents regulatory
11:34:39 scheme as well, and in addition, there is a local bill
11:34:43 moving through the legislature that would allow the PTC
11:34:46 to directly regulate these non-essential towing
11:34:50 operations from private property.
11:34:51 We think that would additionally help, and we want to
11:34:54 make sure that anything we do is consistent with what
11:34:56 we expect to be the new authority for the PTC.
11:34:59 >> I like what you said.
11:35:06 I'm not opposed to passing it and let the whole
11:35:11 industry look at it because it says just take it to
11:35:13 your property that you own that's under surveillance
11:35:19 cameras so nobody can gob in, but don't dump them in
11:35:23 the neighborhood like has been done in the past in many
11:35:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, is it council's
11:35:31 pleasure then to have this put on for first reading at
11:35:33 a future date when you get a report back from the city
11:35:37 attorney after distributing it?
11:35:39 Or do you want to have a tentative date on the docket
11:35:42 However you wish to do it.
11:35:44 Or do you wish to bring it up on your own?
11:35:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If I can continue to speak, I think
11:35:50 we set it up for first date on first reading whatever
11:35:53 time is necessary to notify those in the wrecker
11:35:57 business, and those in the towing business, and those
11:36:00 in the PTC what's coming.
11:36:03 And I'm just trying to be fair with all of them.
11:36:08 So if we can settle a date I would be so appreciative.
11:36:11 >> Maybe appropriate the first meeting in May would
11:36:13 give us roughly 30 days to make those --
11:36:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's a motion.
11:36:21 Moved and seconded.
11:36:22 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:36:25 Is that it?
11:36:29 Then we'll move to new business.
11:36:32 Councilman Dingfelder.
11:36:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Chairman, I saw the memo from
11:36:40 Mrs. Wise as related to council's budget.
11:36:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I was going to bring that up but go
11:36:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, I'll follow your leaders
11:36:46 around as always.
11:36:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Go ahead.
11:36:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I just wanted to see where we were
11:36:53 going to chat about it, workshop it.
11:36:55 I think there are probably some items in there that we
11:36:57 can tweak and spend a little less.
11:37:01 And maybe there's items that we need to spend a little
11:37:04 >> Well, I met with the mayor on that, and what she
11:37:08 suggested to all, what they are doing is rolling back
11:37:11 to the 2009 budget level, because you have the action
11:37:14 on that now.
11:37:16 Which means that as you can see there, you rolled out
11:37:20 in 2009, you will be saving approximately a little over
11:37:24 $20,000 so I said to the mayor I don't think council
11:37:26 has a problem rolling back to the 2009.
11:37:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think the net effect is good.
11:37:33 I think we should cut our budget just like we ask all
11:37:36 the other departments to cut there's.
11:37:39 I saw on communications services that we have a budget
11:37:43 in the neighborhood of $600,000 depending on the year
11:37:46 and I asked what that's related to, and somebody said,
11:37:49 well, we have four fax lines coming in, and we have
11:37:53 several cell phones that are dedicated to City Council.
11:37:55 I didn't know that because I don't have a City Council
11:37:59 phone number.
11:38:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I don't have one.
11:38:01 Don't want one.
11:38:02 >>MARY MULHERN: Does anybody have a City Council cell
11:38:06 You do?
11:38:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But, anyway, I am not going to get
11:38:13 into individual whether they want one or not.
11:38:16 But as related total four fax lines, we don't need four
11:38:19 fax lines.
11:38:20 Nobody faxes things anyway.
11:38:21 So if we have one fax line for the whole office we
11:38:23 could probably save some money there.
11:38:25 Other than that I will leave it to your discretion,
11:38:27 Mr. Chairman.
11:38:27 >>MARY MULHERN: We could probably share a fax line
11:38:32 between the main number for City Council and fax.
11:38:34 We could look at that.
11:38:36 I don't know if that would be a problem for incoming
11:38:38 calls or not.
11:38:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman, since you brought it up
11:38:43 let me make a motion that we roll back to the 2009
11:38:45 action which is what the mayor is doing with her
11:38:47 departments, if you want to do that.
11:38:49 And then we can make those other adjustments we want to
11:38:52 when the budget is presented, or you can include it in
11:38:55 the motion, however you want to proceed.
11:38:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Right.
11:38:59 I will make that motion and ask, Mr. Chairman, to also
11:39:02 look into the communications service line item and see
11:39:05 if we can tweak that up as well.
11:39:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
11:39:08 >>MARY MULHERN: I am going to look at this.
11:39:11 Thanks for looking a it the line items.
11:39:13 And I haven't reviewed it.
11:39:14 But I am going to give you some of my office budget
11:39:19 this year, but I am going to give whatever is left
11:39:22 after today back.
11:39:23 And I don't know.
11:39:25 I guess this is a question for Mr. Shelby.
11:39:28 Can I return that money and put it into -- back into
11:39:39 general funds?
11:39:41 To parks for scholarships?
11:39:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You can request it but that's an
11:39:45 administrative function, and of course they are not
11:39:48 bound by the request.
11:39:49 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
11:39:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You have a question on the motion?
11:39:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just want to comment that I want
11:39:54 to give some of my travel money to a staff person that
11:39:57 needed to go to a conference, and then the
11:39:59 administration wouldn't allow it.
11:40:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's a motion.
11:40:03 Yes, sir.
11:40:05 Councilman Miranda.
11:40:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Things come around and go around
11:40:10 but in '07 I said I don't want no travel money.
11:40:14 I don't want no cell phone.
11:40:16 I don't want no computer.
11:40:19 I don't want anything.
11:40:23 I just want to be able to function as I do and answer
11:40:27 the many thousands -- and the books are there if you
11:40:31 want to look at them that have called.
11:40:33 I'm so happy to see this change is coming.
11:40:37 In 2008, I didn't take the 2.8% increase in salary.
11:40:41 I gave it back.
11:40:42 Right back to the general fund.
11:40:45 Where the travel money went.
11:40:47 2009, I saw things getting worse.
11:40:51 Of us can live with less.
11:40:53 I gave back another percent.
11:40:57 And I haven't decided what I am going to do this year
11:41:00 But I can tell you one thing.
11:41:05 We have to look beyond the offices that we hold.
11:41:10 I'm looking at making recommendation that next week of
11:41:15 combining city clerk's office and City Council's
11:41:17 office, so I'm not trying to fire anyone, to suspend
11:41:25 anyone, to do any of that stuff.
11:41:27 But the people that are going to retire in the next
11:41:30 calendar year or so, not have those positions filled.
11:41:35 I don't know what it takes, but these ideas that have
11:41:39 been coming in my mind, that we take shots where we
11:41:46 can, but we haven't taken any hits ourselves.
11:41:50 But what I am saying is that it's time that we make
11:41:53 recommendation, and maybe within the next two weeks,
11:41:59 bring it to the chair, and let's have a discussion on
11:42:02 what we may want to do or may not want to do.
11:42:06 I can't tell you what we may do or may not want to do.
11:42:11 I'm very fortunate -- it doesn't take much to keep me
11:42:15 But I may be an exception to the rule.
11:42:20 So I'm not asking anybody to do what I do.
11:42:22 I'm saying be cognizant of the time, realize the
11:42:27 situation the city is in, we have had things happen
11:42:32 I don't want to go into -- it's not about
11:42:36 It's about money.
11:42:39 And we continue to lose revenue, because of the
11:42:44 reduction that we are in now.
11:42:48 In my estimation, employment is much higher than 12%.
11:42:52 You may have another 5% that quit looking for work.
11:42:55 And how many of those that were making 100, 150,000 are
11:42:59 now working for 30 and 4thdown thousand. Some he
11:43:02 those are the underemployed.
11:43:04 I would think if you look up all the numbers you are
11:43:08 These are not good times.
11:43:10 And I think the good old days are gone.
11:43:17 I think you will have an improvement of some sort in
11:43:19 the next four, five, six years.
11:43:21 In fact there, was an article written, I think it was
11:43:23 the "St. Pete Times."
11:43:25 I'm not here to qualify newspaper writings or
11:43:29 editorials or anything of that nature.
11:43:31 But it said, if you want to go from 9.7% -- and I only
11:43:36 read it once -- back down to 5% unemployed, it would
11:43:42 take 272,000 new jobs in this country every month until
11:43:51 the year 2015.
11:43:56 I don't think we are going to attain that.
11:43:59 That's just me speaking.
11:44:00 What's happening is you have the only ones that can
11:44:07 create jobs are the government.
11:44:12 In the public service sector.
11:44:13 No company is going to hire more people when whatever
11:44:15 they are making is not being sold.
11:44:17 So we are fooling ourselves.
11:44:20 You have to create jobs and the infrastructure of this
11:44:23 country that is crumbling or has crumbled way beyond
11:44:28 the needs and necessity of the repair of whatever it
11:44:31 is, bridge, road and so forth.
11:44:32 So I am going stop there, chairman, on that one.
11:44:35 Thank you for that.
11:44:36 Then I'll make a motion when I get to my part on new
11:44:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion.
11:44:41 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:44:45 And that motion is by councilman Dingfelder that we
11:44:47 roll our budget back to the 2009 level, also included
11:44:50 in that that the chair will take a look at the fax line
11:44:53 and --
11:44:55 >> communication.
11:44:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Communication and fax line.
11:44:57 >> Did you want to have a discussion?
11:45:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: A motion in two weeks.
11:45:05 I didn't make that motion.
11:45:08 To possibly consolidate the clerk's official and City
11:45:10 Council's office all in one.
11:45:13 In fact, we work like brothers and sisters hand in hand
11:45:16 all the time.
11:45:17 We never had a problem with it.
11:45:19 And maybe this is an opportunity to review how we are
11:45:23 That's all I'm saying.
11:45:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We all received a letter from
11:45:33 T.H.A.N. as related to our zoning process.
11:45:37 And I would like for us to have this discussion about
11:45:42 the possibility of extending the number of minutes that
11:45:45 the neighborhood of record gets during a rezoning
11:45:50 hearing or land use hearing.
11:45:51 So I'm not really sure what the appropriate -- it
11:45:54 obviously would be a potential change in our zoning
11:45:57 code, so I'm not really sure what the appropriate
11:45:59 process would be as related to that.
11:46:03 Direct Cathy Coyle.
11:46:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That would be a council rule for
11:46:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's not in our -- okay.
11:46:15 So let's figure out the best process to go ahead and
11:46:17 have that discussion with the neighborhoods, with the
11:46:22 development community, and with ourselves.
11:46:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We have a workshop on April 22nd at
11:46:30 nothing at 10:00.
11:46:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 22nd?
11:46:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: 11:00, yes.
11:46:35 The 22nd.
11:46:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: At 10:00 is the digital billboards.
11:46:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We could make this 11:00.
11:46:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: My understanding is we didn't want to
11:46:47 put anything, as I recall, I thought the digital
11:46:50 billboards, that would be extensive.
11:46:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Chairman, we don't have an
11:46:56 evening meeting that night so we could make this at
11:47:01 Just a thought, folks.
11:47:01 >>MARY MULHERN: This is a workshop?
11:47:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes, just a workshop.
11:47:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: A potential person who comes here
11:47:12 to bring something to council has 15 minutes, is that
11:47:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: A petitioner.
11:47:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 15 minutes.
11:47:21 And then five minutes rebuttal.
11:47:22 You may have persons from T.H.A.N. or the neighborhood,
11:47:25 there can be 20 of them.
11:47:27 They can have 60 minutes, three minutes each.
11:47:30 Am I correct?
11:47:31 >>GWEN MILLER: And plus their ten.
11:47:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And you also have --
11:47:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm just saying where it is.
11:47:40 If you have a problem with that, let me know.
11:47:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: My suggestion will be that we look at
11:47:44 scheduling for workshop discussion, okay?
11:47:47 >>MARY MULHERN: Can I make a recommendation?
11:47:49 Because I am going to ask for another workshop and
11:47:51 there's almost nothing on June 17th.
11:47:54 And I don't think this is urgent, is it?
11:47:56 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I can, I am trying to recall the
11:47:59 I believe it may be related to -- and you have the
11:48:02 letter in front of you, Mr. Dingfelder.
11:48:04 I referenced quasi-judicial hearings.
11:48:08 And amending the rules.
11:48:09 But this may be something where you allow 30 minutes at
11:48:11 the workshops.
11:48:13 For instance, you have the 10:00 workshop on April 22nd
11:48:17 regarding the digital billboard ordinance, and the
11:48:19 question was whether T.H.A.N. wanted to be able to
11:48:22 address council for ten minutes at workshops.
11:48:26 Was that only -- only for rezonings?
11:48:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It was rezoning.
11:48:34 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Okay.
11:48:36 I just wanted to be clear on that.
11:48:37 Because if you schedule that --
11:48:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 17th.
11:48:44 That's a motion?
11:48:46 Who made the motion?
11:48:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That would be my motion.
11:48:51 >> Second.
11:48:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor say Aye.
11:48:55 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 9 a.m. on the 17th.
11:48:58 >>MARY MULHERN: I had a couple of things.
11:49:01 One, I would like to ask for a report from Karen Palus,
11:49:06 Parks Department, at our next regular meeting, which is
11:49:08 the -- the 15th.
11:49:14 On the 15th on what the department is doing to
11:49:22 rescue the programming, the after-school and summer
11:49:30 What, if anything, they are doing to address the public
11:49:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me just speak to that.
11:49:36 When I suggested moving to another day we already
11:49:38 reviewed with the clerk's office that had a heavy,
11:49:41 heavy agenda all day on the 15th.
11:49:44 That's the organization meeting.
11:49:47 And now 16 public hearings.
11:49:51 You have two appeals that you have.
11:49:55 >> And then at the next meeting which would be, I
11:50:01 guess, May 6th.
11:50:05 It's a long way off.
11:50:07 May 6th.
11:50:07 >> Moved and seconded.
11:50:09 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:50:11 >>MARY MULHERN: And then I would like to propose a
11:50:14 workshop also on June 17th, say at ten, to discuss
11:50:20 the recommendations of the mayor's TECO citizens task
11:50:24 force on energy.
11:50:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: When is that?
11:50:27 >>MARY MULHERN: June 17th.
11:50:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: June 17th.
11:50:33 And second.
11:50:33 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
11:50:35 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:50:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We can hold onto this so we don't
11:50:42 have to print it out again.
11:50:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anything else?
11:50:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: In a noncontroversial way, some
11:50:48 time back I made a motion about individuals like myself
11:50:51 who may want to run for office and resign.
11:50:56 If I was to leave and come back, I don't think that's
11:50:59 right to the taxpayers who elected me.
11:51:02 So since therein might be a possibility that I might be
11:51:05 leaving, I would like to ask the legal department
11:51:12 director or their staff to make an ordinance, bring it
11:51:14 back in two weeks, that if you are a sitting member of
11:51:18 this government and you choose to leave to run for
11:51:20 another office, that you are certainly not allowed to
11:51:24 run for office, that's not the intent, but that you
11:51:27 have to wait one full four-year cycle to run for
11:51:32 And I would like to have that change, if that's a
11:51:36 charter to the city, chapter to the city, code or
11:51:39 chapter to the city code.
11:51:41 So maybe I get a second.
11:51:44 Maybe I get four votes.
11:51:45 Maybe I don't get anything like I did in 2007.
11:51:48 But at least it's there.
11:51:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Second.
11:51:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
11:51:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I won't support that because I
11:51:59 really feel like it's up to the voters.
11:52:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's a motion.
11:52:05 Moved and second.
11:52:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I can.
11:52:09 I just had a very brief opportunity to talk with Mr.
11:52:12 Fletcher, but I believe the motion is to come back in
11:52:14 two weeks with an ordinance.
11:52:15 Just without coming to a conclusion at this time, a
11:52:19 part of that process will be to look at the proper
11:52:21 process for where that ordinance would go or whether
11:52:24 that requires a charter amendment, either way.
11:52:27 But you have something in two weeks.
11:52:30 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: We'll have something in two weeks
11:52:33 and resolve that issue.
11:52:34 Likely as Mr. Miranda indicated an ordinance, but we
11:52:36 will double check that issue.
11:52:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Come back April 15th.
11:52:43 >>MARY MULHERN: You don't think that would be a
11:52:48 charter change, or you don't know?
11:52:51 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: We researched it when this
11:52:53 originally came up some time ago.
11:52:54 I have not gone back and refreshed my memory so I would
11:52:57 just defer till we come back.
11:53:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 26th is fine.
11:53:03 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
11:53:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And come back at that time for
11:53:07 Is that what it is?
11:53:08 Or come back as an ordinance?
11:53:12 >>MARY MULHERN: Oh, I am not going to second an
11:53:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: An ordinance has to have two
11:53:18 >>MARY MULHERN: I take back my second.
11:53:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: A second?
11:53:26 >>GWEN MILLER: I already seconded it.
11:53:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
11:53:29 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:53:31 >>THE CLERK: Saul-Sena voting no and Dingfelder being
11:53:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, sir.
11:53:40 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: In discussion with Mr. Slater, we
11:53:44 have people --
11:53:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Miller.
11:53:51 >>GWEN MILLER: I have nothing.
11:53:52 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I have been in discussion where
11:53:54 Mr. Slater.
11:53:55 We have people putting signs up in parts of my
11:54:00 They put them up.
11:54:01 Code takes them down and they are up again tomorrow.
11:54:04 And we can't be sending trucks out there with the men
11:54:08 picking these things up and they stick new ones.
11:54:11 We need some kind of penalty, if a sign is put up there
11:54:15 more than twice, there has to be some type of citation
11:54:17 that's going to cost them money.
11:54:21 Because it's not fair for us to be sending people out
11:54:24 picking these signs up, and four hours later the same
11:54:27 sign is back again.
11:54:29 Not the same sign but a duplicate.
11:54:32 And most of these signs have phone numbers on them.
11:54:35 It's either somebody selling something, for instance,
11:54:38 we just had this so-called furniture place where
11:54:43 Circuit City was.
11:54:44 They have been there for four months.
11:54:45 They got people out on the road holding signs, which is
11:54:49 permissible, plus they are putting signs on the road.
11:54:52 Which is not right.
11:54:53 Especially with the construction that's up there.
11:54:56 It's dangerous.
11:54:58 And if we can get legal to come back within 30 days
11:55:01 with some sort of an ordinance or whatever we need.
11:55:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have spoken to legal and they a
11:55:12 sure me it's way more complicated than what you think.
11:55:15 Wray suggest is you have a conversation with Mr.
11:55:16 Fletcher about it to explain why it's so complicated to
11:55:20 Because when the signs are on public right-of-way --
11:55:27 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: They are on the right-of-way, the
11:55:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
11:55:31 But rather than take up time now.
11:55:33 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: That's why I said come back in 30
11:55:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, he's requesting an ordinance but
11:55:37 we need to hear from legal.
11:55:39 I don't know whether that's legal or what.
11:55:41 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: These come up periodically.
11:55:44 The code enforcement under state law, we would cite the
11:55:47 property owner.
11:55:47 And since they are in the right-of-way we are the
11:55:50 property owner.
11:55:51 I did ask staff recently based on some comments from
11:55:54 some other council members to look to see if there's
11:55:57 any other avenues we can go through other than code
11:56:00 enforcement, and we are looking at that right now, some
11:56:04 creative potential options.
11:56:05 But frankly, I don't want to sound terribly optimistic
11:56:09 because the way that state statute is set up, we would
11:56:13 be citing ourselves and obviously that's not the
11:56:16 The intent is to whoever we think is putting up these
11:56:21 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Then maybe we need a stat statute
11:56:23 change because we can't have these people littering the
11:56:25 highway like they are doing.
11:56:27 It looks like a zoo out there.
11:56:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:56:33 The last item, I would like to add to the June agenda
11:56:37 the Tampa expressway authority, want to come and give
11:56:40 us an update on the conversion.
11:56:43 Lee Roy Selmon Expressway to an all electronic tolling.
11:56:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, did you want that at a
11:56:50 particular time?
11:56:50 Did you want that under staff reports at 10:30, or did
11:56:54 you want them at 9 a.m.?
11:56:58 >> All I know is they wanted an update council on that.
11:57:03 We can take it up under staff reports at 10:30.
11:57:13 Let's give them ten minutes.
11:57:15 Let's put it under staff report, first item, in the
11:57:17 first meeting in June, and give them ten minutes.
11:57:20 That's my motion.
11:57:21 >> Second.
11:57:23 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
11:57:24 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
11:57:27 >> That's all I have.
11:57:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to receive and file.
11:57:32 >> So moved.
11:57:33 (Motion carried).
11:57:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public wish to address
11:57:37 Anyone else?
11:57:38 Thank you, Mr. Michelini, for your sermon this morning.
11:57:44 We stand adjourned.
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