TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, May 13, 2010
11 a.m. Special Called Session
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11:00:45 >> Tampa City Council will now come to order.
11:02:59 We'll have roll call.
11:03:00 [Roll call]
11:03:00 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Here.
11:03:02 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
11:03:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
11:03:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
11:03:07 Let me read into the record a memorandum from
11:03:10 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
11:03:12 Please be advised that I will be unable to attend the
11:03:15 morning city council special called meeting scheduled
11:03:18 on Thursday, May 13, 2010.
11:03:21 This is from Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
11:03:29 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, I need to leave
11:03:31 early today.
11:03:32 I have another meeting in my district.
11:03:35 In fact, I have two meetings.
11:03:36 And I'll be leaving shortly once we get started.
11:03:39 And on item 89 that was brought up last week was a
11:03:43 motion by Mulhern Caetano that the legal department be
11:03:47 requested to bring back a resolution, the after-school
11:03:51 summer fees back to the level prior to adopting
11:03:54 resolution 2009-699.
11:03:57 The motion failed, and I voted against it.
11:04:00 And my intent was to vote to roll back those fees.
11:04:06 I don't know whether I voted improperly or -- it was
11:04:10 recorded wrong.
11:04:11 I'm not sure.
11:04:11 But I would like to make a motion for reconsideration
11:04:16 on that motion.
11:04:17 >> Well, we probably need to hear from legal.
11:04:21 That's not on our agenda.
11:04:22 And those persons that were here -- I'll let the
11:04:26 attorney speak to that real quick.
11:04:28 >>Martin Shelby: Mr. Chairman, this is the next
11:04:33 scheduled meeting but not a for example regular
11:04:35 If council wishes to take it up today, or if you wish
11:04:37 you could bring it up when you have the next regular
11:04:40 You do have a quorum today.
11:04:44 It's not inappropriate touch bring it up today if
11:04:46 council wishes to take it up.
11:04:48 If council wishes to add it to next week's agenda, you
11:04:51 can have that under unfinished business next week and
11:04:53 have a full council to have a discussion on it.
11:04:55 >> As I recall, that was the issue raised by
11:04:59 Councilwoman Mulhern, because we were having them come
11:05:04 back with a report.
11:05:07 However, I would suggest that you bring it up at our
11:05:09 next meeting so that we have a full council.
11:05:17 >>> And I think the purpose of Mr. Caetano wanting to
11:05:19 bring up this issue besides revisiting the issue is the
11:05:22 fact that his vote is recorded incorrectly.
11:05:25 So I guess it's council's decision to bring it up
11:05:29 again, did you want this added to the agenda for next
11:05:31 week or bring it up under new business for next week?
11:05:35 Do you wish to have this appear on the agenda?
11:05:38 >>Thomas Scott: Well, we could do that.
11:05:41 Another thing was the letter pertaining to the 19
11:05:44 million and the 160 million, I guess my intent was to
11:05:49 have the chairman draft a letter to the governor in
11:05:53 reference to that.
11:05:59 That request is send the governor a letter, that line
11:06:09 item out of the budget taking $19 million from the
11:06:12 expressway authority.
11:06:13 So that's where you are making a motion to that effect.
11:06:19 >>MARY MULHERN: I thought we already vetoed that.
11:06:23 >> Direct a letter on behalf of the city council
11:06:28 encouraging governor Crist to veto the portion of the
11:06:31 implementing bill that takes 19 million from the Tampa
11:06:34 Hillsborough county expressway authority further, that
11:06:39 vetoed to the language that sweeps 160 million from the
11:06:43 transportation trust fund.
11:06:57 Mr. Miranda, I'll save a seat for you in 2012.
11:07:00 >> Mr. Caetano had two letters on this issue, and the
11:07:17 motion to send out a letter on behalf of the entire
11:07:20 city council signed by the chairman.
11:07:23 And my understanding is that the governor has not
11:07:26 addressed these issues.
11:07:29 >> So there's a motion made by councilman Caetano,
11:07:34 seconded by mirror Rand A.all in favor signify by
11:07:37 saying Aye.
11:07:38 All opposes?
11:07:39 >> Mr. Chairman, with regard to item 89, the first item
11:07:44 that Mr. Caetano raised, the issue of reconsideration
11:07:47 of this motion.
11:07:49 If council would please by motion put this back under
11:07:52 unfinished business so it will appear on the agenda.
11:07:59 Moved and seconded.
11:08:00 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:08:04 Let's take up the item 1 on the agenda.
11:08:39 My concern at this point is we are going to lose our
11:08:42 quorum shortly.
11:08:43 I would like to deal with the report, the report about
11:08:49 the oil spill and whatever time we have remaining we
11:08:52 can use that for the public comments if council is so
11:08:54 amenable to that.
11:09:06 >>> I'm not sure how to proceed with this.
11:09:08 Maybe we can get Cathy's advice on this. Marty and I
11:09:09 met with Ms. Coyle on the community gardening and
11:09:18 recommended a number of changes which had been made.
11:09:21 But I didn't receive the changed ordinance until 7:00
11:09:26 last night, and I was in a meeting last night.
11:09:29 I only was able to look at it just now.
11:09:31 And we had some people from some community gardening
11:09:34 who also couldn't see it until last night. I'm not
11:09:42 comfortable with the language in this.
11:09:45 And I think we can work it out.
11:09:46 But I don't November that we have time to work it out
11:09:49 right now.
11:09:52 So I guess we could go over the changes that would make
11:09:58 it, you know, more amenable, and then transmit it.
11:10:04 If the community gardeners are happy we've that, but
11:10:09 it's not -- I am going to apologize myself because I
11:10:17 wish that I had been more proactive in drafting this,
11:10:23 because one of the things we have, which -- I don't
11:10:26 know, Robin, can you make copies of this chart you
11:10:30 She has copies.
11:10:31 Let me just say what has happened.
11:10:33 She surveyed a number of big cities, mid size cities
11:10:38 like us to see who has large community gardens,
11:10:43 components in their cities happening right now, and how
11:10:47 their ordinances work and there are a lot of things in
11:10:49 ours that they don't have.
11:10:51 So I guess maybe, Cathy, the question is, is there any
11:10:56 way we can still work on this for a little bit of time
11:10:59 and get it in the planning commission for the cycle of
11:11:06 >>Catherine Coyle: My deadline is tomorrow to get it
11:11:08 >> And what is that deadline?
11:11:10 Explain that to me.
11:11:11 >> They have a 30-day deadline to get it onto the
11:11:14 planning commission recommendation hearing schedule.
11:11:20 >>Mary Mulhern: But I know that we have a policy about
11:11:22 only doing this.
11:11:24 What do we do it, quarterly, twice a year?
11:11:27 >> Semiannually.
11:11:28 >> It's a rule?
11:11:32 >> Catherine Coyle: It's a code requirement.
11:11:35 >> It's written into our code?
11:11:37 >> Correct.
11:11:37 >> So this was already late for this cycle, right?
11:11:40 So when is the next cycle?
11:11:42 >> July 15th is the next cycle.
11:11:48 >>Thomas Scott: The issue, though, is moving it
11:11:50 You can always amend this, is that right? It's best to
11:11:53 get something, what you want and amend it in the next
11:11:58 >> It will be at least another two months before it
11:12:01 comes back.
11:12:04 >>Mary Mulhern: But here is what I would like to do.
11:12:05 And since we didn't get those amendments till last
11:12:08 night, I think we should hear from the public because
11:12:16 they can probably explain better than me what we need
11:12:18 to change.
11:12:19 But when I first looked at the initial draft of this, I
11:12:24 did believe there were actual entire requirements that
11:12:27 could be, you know, struck from here because they are
11:12:31 not necessary, and we come to find out the other cities
11:12:34 aren't doing those things either.
11:12:35 So if we could agree on some of these things, these
11:12:39 changes right now before it's transmitted, and then
11:12:44 make the other changes and have the discussion, the
11:12:48 broader discussion when it comes back up to adopt.
11:12:53 So I think what would help -- and I'm trying to move
11:12:58 this along -- if we could hear from the public.
11:13:00 >>Catherine Coyle: If I could make a suggestion.
11:13:03 If you are looking at potentially striking something
11:13:05 from this regulation, I would suggest just transmitting
11:13:08 it the way that it is.
11:13:10 You can pull things from a it when you come back.
11:13:12 It makes it more difficulty to add whole new concepts
11:13:15 when you come back, because the question always comes
11:13:18 to whether or not the state planning commission
11:13:21 reviewed it.
11:13:21 But you can take requirements out.
11:13:23 You can always make something less.
11:13:26 >>Mary Mulhern: That's very good direction.
11:13:27 So can we please hear from the public about this?
11:13:30 Because they are the ones that are the experts.
11:13:35 >>Thomas Scott: Well, let me say, I want to take up
11:13:39 different staff on both issues and whatever time we
11:13:42 have left hear from the public because we are going to
11:13:44 lose the quorum here at 11:30.
11:13:46 So the issues before us that we need to address, one
11:13:50 and two, after we hear from staff on these issues, and
11:13:53 hear from the public, in whatever time we have left.
11:13:56 I don't want to just take up one item and not get to
11:13:59 the second item as well because we are going to lose
11:14:01 the quorum.
11:14:23 >>Catherine Coyle: To be fair, these regulations have
11:14:26 been out for nine months because they were in the
11:14:28 previous cycle and they only changed the portions that
11:14:30 are in yellow which is based on our meeting that we had
11:14:33 last Wednesday.
11:14:34 The changes that were made based on the discussion that
11:14:36 we had was changing the size limitations to two acres,
11:14:41 changing the horsepower of the machinery that's used to
11:14:46 no greater than 20-horsepower, those permitted
11:14:57 structures do have to have certain setbacks which are
11:15:01 typically like in a residential zone classification.
11:15:04 The setbacks are three feet on the side and rear.
11:15:07 And then they meet 60 feet in the front.
11:15:12 It used to say shade pavilion and we changed to the
11:15:15 shade and water collection canopies because of the --
11:15:19 those water canopies that were started in the Seminole
11:15:22 Heights facility.
11:15:25 I made the change in 7-C, to say outdoor furniture as
11:15:32 opposed to benches.
11:15:38 Did say benches, I changed to the outdoor furniture.
11:15:44 The planting beds originally said that they had to meet
11:15:49 principal structure setbacks, 20 feet in the rear, 20
11:15:52 to 25 feet in the front under typical residential lots.
11:15:56 We changed that to 20 feet in the front yard to allow
11:16:01 for parking if it were there.
11:16:03 And then three feet on the side and rear.
11:16:08 Last coverage, originally it said walkways.
11:16:12 And the walkways, it's supposed to remain unpaved and
11:16:16 covered with mulch except as necessary to meet ADA
11:16:20 We changed it to basic lot coverage requirement that
11:16:25 impervious materials that are used shall not exceed 35%
11:16:28 of the site area.
11:16:32 Signage was to comply with chapter 20.5, the basic
11:16:36 standard, and also the principal operator -- and I put
11:16:43 in parenthesis garden coordinator.
11:16:47 Councilwoman Mulhern sent through a model, protections
11:16:52 for community gardens and the public health policy
11:16:56 model zoning language.
11:16:59 So I read through that and compared to the what we had,
11:17:02 and there were a lot of similarities as far as the
11:17:06 requirements from what I saw in here.
11:17:09 There were some that were actually more stringent in
11:17:12 the model language.
11:17:15 For instance, it says permitted uses, community
11:17:17 gardens, the very first one.
11:17:19 Site users must provide a phase one environmental site
11:17:25 Sources of contamination must be tested to determine
11:17:29 contamination and so on and so forth.
11:17:32 We don't have any of that in our requirements.
11:17:36 If there's environmental contamination, it's going to
11:17:38 be up to the community garden people to deal with that
11:17:41 portion of it.
11:17:42 In the model language you actually Virginia to do that
11:17:44 assessment and provide it as part of the permitted use.
11:17:47 We didn't go there in ours.
11:17:50 It does site that a garden coordinator is supposed to
11:17:54 perform the coordinating the managements.
11:17:56 Garden and that's why I put that term in here as
11:17:58 opposed to just principal operator.
11:18:00 I kind of like that term garden coordinator.
11:18:03 There was some question about using the telephone
11:18:06 number, also including some other type of contact
11:18:10 So I did add Web site or e-mail address on that
11:18:15 And those are the basic changes that I had in my notes
11:18:17 from the meeting that we had.
11:18:20 Like I said, I did go through the model language.
11:18:25 It had language in here about maintain so that water
11:18:29 and fertilizer will not drain onto adjacent property.
11:18:31 Our basic code covers that already for stormwater
11:18:36 There should be no retail sales on-site.
11:18:39 Except for produce grown on the site.
11:18:43 Residential districts that are allowed.
11:18:47 It does say in the comment that if the municipal
11:18:53 chooses it may, alternatively it could permit gardeners
11:18:57 to sell produce at a different site.
11:19:00 Typically residential lots.
11:19:03 And always been construed and regulated if it's for a
11:19:07 residential purpose.
11:19:08 We allow the four events per year in this particular
11:19:12 concept for community gardens and if you wanted to sell
11:19:15 anything else you could go to a commercial site to sell
11:19:21 Also in the model language it says that no buildings or
11:19:27 structures shall be permitted on the site.
11:19:29 However, sheds for storage, tools, limited to size, and
11:19:32 it gives you a blank.
11:19:34 We actually allow accessory structures no greater
11:19:37 height than 15 feet, which is -- it directly relates to
11:19:43 the residential accessory buildings, and that they
11:19:46 shall not exceed 20% of the garden site.
11:19:49 To keep it at an accessory use level.
11:19:55 So we kind of, without even knowing it, I felt like we
11:20:00 were fairly in line, and in some places, in some
11:20:03 instances not as restricted as the model language.
11:20:07 So I'm obviously willing to hear from the public on
11:20:11 this and what they are looking for and anything that
11:20:13 they bring up, I'll consider that, and how it's going
11:20:16 to relate, how we regulate in Tampa.
11:20:20 I obviously discussed the table.
11:20:23 The table itself looks like it highlights Tampa,
11:20:26 San Francisco, Cleveland, Nashville, royal oak,
11:20:31 Michigan, San Diego, California, and it's a yes-no
11:20:37 table, yes-no size limitation, yes or no, a lot of them
11:20:42 have nos in certain things.
11:20:44 I think for me, moving forward on this, I'll hear the
11:20:48 comments, but I would also like to go back and read the
11:20:51 regulations to see what the connotation, how it relates
11:20:54 in the rest of the regulation.
11:20:55 A simple yes or no isn't always the case especially
11:20:58 with zoning regulations.
11:21:00 There's always a caveat for something else.
11:21:01 So I think I would want to read through those.
11:21:15 >>Gwen Miller: It can be in someone's side yard, next
11:21:18 door to the side of the house?
11:21:21 >>Catherine Coyle: It could be an adjacent lot, yes.
11:21:25 >> Does the person have top agree to put thereto?
11:21:28 >> No.
11:21:28 >> Somebody can come to my house and --
11:21:30 >> On your particular property, of course you have to
11:21:34 agree to it.
11:21:34 >> I mean, next door.
11:21:36 If somebody just put a garden next door to my house?
11:21:40 >> If the owner of that particular piece of property
11:21:42 signed the application for someone to apply for a
11:21:44 community garden and it's zoned RS 50 then yes, they
11:21:47 could apply.
11:21:48 It's a special use one and approved administratively.
11:21:52 If they agree to meet these conditions then it would be
11:21:55 There's no public notice or public hearing requirement.
11:22:00 So if that property owner next to you on an adjacent
11:22:03 lot wanted to apply to have a community garden, and
11:22:06 they met the conditions, then yes, they could.
11:22:08 >> And nothing I could do about it?
11:22:10 >> No.
11:22:13 Not in that sense, no.
11:22:19 >>Gwen Miller: If I don't want it there -- you have to
11:22:21 live with it, huh?
11:22:23 If someone wanted to put that garden next to me,
11:22:26 there's nothing I could do about it?
11:22:28 >> The concept here is to allow this type of use
11:22:30 throughout the city, and virtually all the categories
11:22:34 that we have with these criteria.
11:22:37 That's correct.
11:22:38 But it doesn't matter whether or not the neighbor wants
11:22:40 It's whether that property owner wants to allow this
11:22:42 type of use to occur on their property and apply for
11:22:49 >>Thomas Scott: Councilwoman Mulhern and councilman
11:22:51 >> Councilwoman Miller, the point of the ordinance is
11:22:58 to regulate it so that if someone next door to you did
11:23:04 put in a garden, they couldn't do any of the things
11:23:07 that you might object to.
11:23:10 It's private property, and it's if the private property
11:23:14 owner wanted to plant a garden instead of building a
11:23:17 house or garage or whatever they wanted to build there,
11:23:21 and would allow for it to be used as a garden.
11:23:24 The principle of community gardening is that it be a
11:23:28 community thing, and I don't think the gardeners here
11:23:31 wouldn't have even thought about planting a garden
11:23:33 unless they had the neighborhood consent.
11:23:36 We have had community gardens that have been going for
11:23:38 a couple of years here, and in St. Pete, and there have
11:23:41 been no complaints, because no one is going to do that.
11:23:46 If you don't want it there.
11:23:47 No one is going to plant a garden somewhere where the
11:23:51 neighbors don't want it.
11:23:52 The point is that it be something that the community
11:23:54 wants and the first thing that they do, if they find
11:23:58 out if there is community support for it.
11:24:01 I think if you talk to Frances brooks and -- I don't
11:24:07 think they are here today -- but the garden we are
11:24:09 talking about B today in east Tampa they have people
11:24:11 coming by begging them, telling them about other empty
11:24:14 lots that they wish that they would do a garden there,
11:24:17 So I think we have been talking about this for years,
11:24:21 and I think if you would visit some of the gardens,
11:24:24 hear from the gardening people, your fears would be
11:24:28 allayed of this.
11:24:29 There is nothing to be afraid of.
11:24:32 It's greens and flowers, and tastes really good and
11:24:37 it's healthy.
11:24:38 But, anyway, Cathy, I think that this chart is telling,
11:24:43 because when I talk to you, I did ask to have the pet
11:24:50 exclusion taken out.
11:24:51 If we could revisit this when it comes back, that's
11:24:55 But I think the one thing that I'm really concerned
11:24:57 about is the acreage.
11:25:01 If we -- none of these other cities had an acreage
11:25:08 minimum or requirement.
11:25:09 And I think the reality is in a city that's pretty
11:25:13 built out, you are not going to find a lot of property
11:25:16 that's more than half an acre, much less larger plot.
11:25:20 So to be able to assemble that is probably going to be
11:25:26 in a partial district or park, so it's not even going
11:25:30 to be a possibility unless, you know, it's going to be
11:25:35 a pretty special circumstance when you have anything
11:25:38 And I don't see the need for that at this point.
11:25:40 And that's one of the major sticking points.
11:25:43 So as long as transmitting this today is not going to
11:25:48 lock us into that limitation, when it comes back to us.
11:25:52 That's my big thing.
11:25:55 My biggest concern.
11:25:59 >>Catherine Coyle: In that particular case I would
11:26:00 suggest that you take the limitation out, and then when
11:26:02 it came back, if thereby was an outcry that it needed
11:26:05 to be limited, that you add a limitation back.
11:26:09 >>Mary Mulhern: And we can hear from the planning
11:26:11 commission and do the research and find out if there's
11:26:13 really need for that.
11:26:15 That's my big sticking point that I think we do need to
11:26:18 hear from people.
11:26:19 >> Councilman Caetano and councilman Miranda.
11:26:33 >>Joseph Caetano: (off microphone) As Ms. Miller was
11:26:39 saying can they plant next door to her?
11:26:42 Some of these communities don't have restriction for
11:26:45 Say you have a bunch of people going there in Chicago
11:26:47 or wherever these places are, and have a little party
11:26:50 while they are gardening, don't want Mrs. Miller to be
11:26:58 >>Gwen Miller: That's right.
11:26:59 >>Charlie Miranda: I envision something there, and I
11:27:01 think I'm getting something more than what I envision.
11:27:03 I envision community gardening people getting together,
11:27:06 doing something in their backyard.
11:27:08 And I said a year ago, two years ago, that I was all
11:27:11 for this, but I didn't want the government to pay for
11:27:14 any of it.
11:27:15 Because I don't believe government should get involved
11:27:17 in this.
11:27:20 Now I read here, it says water meter, and provided by
11:27:24 city, water provided by city.
11:27:26 I don't know what that means.
11:27:27 But it means that somebody is going to get free water.
11:27:31 Let me say the city of Tampa lost $10 million from the
11:27:36 water department.
11:27:39 >>Mary Mulhern: You are reading the table, not the --
11:27:43 >>Charlie Miranda: I don't know if it's in there or
11:27:46 I'm just going by -- I just got it.
11:27:50 I'm going on what I got.
11:27:51 I don't have anything other than that.
11:27:53 Size limitation.
11:27:54 When you talk about an acre, an acre is about --
11:28:00 >>Catherine Coyle: 43.
11:28:01 >> You are looking at over 08,000 square foot of land,
11:28:05 am I correct, for two acres?
11:28:07 >>Catherine Coyle: Correct.
11:28:09 >>Charlie Miranda: What does one acre of hay yield?
11:28:13 What does two acres of hay yield, if you wanted to
11:28:17 plant hay?
11:28:18 It yield a lot of hay, because I used to be in that
11:28:21 business of buying the hay for the horses that I used
11:28:24 to have.
11:28:25 So what I'm saying is this for-profit, not-for-profit,
11:28:31 I heard of sales on the land but nothing sold other
11:28:35 than what you grow there.
11:28:36 Well, am I setting up a business within a business to
11:28:38 compete against other business?
11:28:42 That's where my problems come in.
11:28:44 Do I start something here in the city partly subsidized
11:28:48 somehow by the city, maybe not, to compete with another
11:28:52 entity of farmers who are not getting the benefit of
11:28:56 that, Plant City area, Homosassa area, Odessa area,
11:29:02 Wimauma area, all of those areas.
11:29:04 So what I'm saying, I'm not against the idea.
11:29:08 But I am not going to tell you right now, vote for
11:29:12 something that is going to have a sale next to a house
11:29:15 that I don't know if the neighborhoods -- I guess the
11:29:20 neighborhoods are notified so they can have their own
11:29:22 discussion, and I don't give carte blanche to anybody.
11:29:26 I'm very restrictive and I'm very prudent on spending
11:29:30 So what I'm saying is before we go on this there's a
11:29:35 lot of questions an answers that have to be in my
11:29:39 judgment -- I don't know about the others.
11:29:41 Maybe they meet all that criteria. I don't know what
11:29:43 they have done or haven't done.
11:29:45 I see here maximum fund-raising event restrictions.
11:29:48 I don't know what that means.
11:29:50 It could be you want to bring it back?
11:29:52 You want to sell -- I don't know what that means.
11:29:55 Sign requirements.
11:29:56 Are you going to have a sign there, a bill word board
11:29:58 that says, bye at Charlie's.
11:30:03 I don't really know.
11:30:04 I'm not trying to be funny or anything.
11:30:06 Ball playing prohibited.
11:30:08 What does that mean?
11:30:09 I don't know.
11:30:11 Alcohol restrictions.
11:30:12 Of course you can't sell alcohol unless you have a
11:30:16 And zoned.
11:30:18 Size limitation.
11:30:19 I heard that now.
11:30:20 There's a question about no greater than two acres.
11:30:23 Well, when you look at the city of Tampa, how many
11:30:26 two-acre plots are there?
11:30:31 East Tampa?
11:30:34 Drew Park?
11:30:36 >>Catherine Coyle: There are portions of the city that
11:30:37 have a fair amount of vacant land that you can
11:30:40 >> So what I'm saying is, could you do anything you
11:30:50 >>Catherine Coyle: What came up in the meeting with Ms.
11:30:52 Mulhern is about the size limitation, where the one
11:30:56 acre came from.
11:30:57 You have your typical platted lot, typically two lots
11:31:03 deep, about 600 feet long and about 200 feet deep.
11:31:06 That is 120,000 square feet which is about two and a
11:31:10 half acres.
11:31:11 There are whole blocks and portion -- in portions of
11:31:14 the city that are vacant, and maybe there's one house.
11:31:18 That was part of that discussion that we had, what to
11:31:21 limit, what not to limit.
11:31:23 And I give the example in my particular neighborhood,
11:31:27 the church that is near me in Seminole Heights had
11:31:29 large tracts of land that are not parking lots.
11:31:32 They are just grass.
11:31:33 And they don't do anything with them.
11:31:35 And the thought is could that or could that not become
11:31:38 a garden?
11:31:40 And I think for me, I'm coming from the place of a
11:31:45 regulator looking at what is the purpose of a
11:31:47 residential lot?
11:31:48 And making sure we preserve that purpose as much as
11:31:52 possible while allowing reasonable uses of those
11:31:54 properties for things like this.
11:31:58 If you assemble what would be two and a half acres of
11:32:02 land immediately surrounded by homes, in that morph
11:32:08 into a small farm or a garden?
11:32:12 And it's hard to weigh.
11:32:13 I think that's where some of the people that do this as
11:32:16 a living or a Hobby probably need to weigh in.
11:32:21 For me I'm not trying to overregulate.
11:32:24 I'm just trying to make sure we preserve the purpose of
11:32:27 the residential lot where potentially something could
11:32:29 happen, because I know you are thinking that people
11:32:31 won't come in and do that.
11:32:34 The reality is, with a regulation, they could.
11:32:37 By allowing it, they can.
11:32:39 They can come and apply for it and they can do these
11:32:41 things and it becomes an enforcement issue.
11:32:44 That's the only thing.
11:32:45 I'm trying to make sure that we don't add something to
11:32:47 the center of the neighborhood that could become a
11:32:50 We need to make sure to capture those things that could
11:32:53 become issues and make sure that we write it down now.
11:32:56 Otherwise, we can't enforce it.
11:33:02 >>Gwen Miller: I think that's what we should put in,
11:33:05 that neighbors should be notified, to notify the
11:33:09 neighbors they are going to put it in and come down.
11:33:13 >> That becomes a process question.
11:33:14 Because I am trying to not make this a public hearing.
11:33:17 This should be something that if there is a reasonable
11:33:19 request that in my opinion they should be able to come,
11:33:23 say they are going to meet the conditions and receive
11:33:25 the permit.
11:33:26 >>Gwen Miller: But the neighbors need to know.
11:33:32 >>Catherine Coyle: If you have public notice it becomes
11:33:34 a public hearing and there is a large expense with
11:33:36 There is a long time frame with that.
11:33:38 I think we can actually write the criteria the right
11:33:41 way to get those protections in here, and that way you
11:33:44 have a reasonable amount of enforcement.
11:33:46 Either way.
11:33:47 Even if they come to a public hearing and there are no
11:33:49 neighbors that say there's a problem with it, you guys
11:33:52 go ahead and approve it, there still could be
11:33:54 enforcement issues.
11:33:55 You have to have the criteria in here to make sure that
11:33:59 you can enforce it whether it's public hearing or not.
11:34:01 That's my point is making sure that we get the right
11:34:07 >>Gwen Miller: I understand that but still the
11:34:08 neighbors need to know if you are going to put a garden
11:34:10 in your neighborhood.
11:34:11 I would hate to wake up one morning and they call and
11:34:14 say, they put this garden in and I didn't know anything
11:34:18 about it and it's too late.
11:34:19 What can you do?
11:34:21 Something needs to be in there that says that they go
11:34:26 door to door or something to let the neighbors know
11:34:28 they are going to put it there, and if they are having
11:34:30 a problem with them putting it there.
11:34:32 And what can you do to put that in your criteria?
11:34:37 >>Catherine Coyle: It's something we would have to look
11:34:38 into processwise.
11:34:40 Once there's public notice there's generally a hearing
11:34:42 that goes along with it.
11:34:43 >> Julia Cole, legal department.
11:34:47 You have to have strict criteria in the code, and
11:34:49 whatever administrative person is making that decision
11:34:51 is obligated to grant a permit.
11:34:54 You can have something in your code which says there
11:34:57 will be some kind of notification, the fact that a
11:35:01 permit is pending.
11:35:02 But all that does is let people know that it's
11:35:06 What it can't do is impact the decision.
11:35:09 You can either meet the criteria or you don't.
11:35:12 In order to have that public information, have a value
11:35:16 and a meaning to it, you have to have a public hearing
11:35:19 where that information that is given by members of the
11:35:21 public is weighed by the body making the decision.
11:35:27 We have had an inherent problem with that with a lot of
11:35:29 our processes and we tried to remove those public
11:35:32 notice requirements in situations where granting public
11:35:35 notice without having an opportunity to have it be
11:35:39 meaningful just creates more problems than it solves.
11:35:41 So if it is felt that it is something where public
11:35:45 notification is felt to be necessary, I'm always going
11:35:51 to recommend that you do not have it be an
11:35:53 administrative decision, that you have it be a public
11:35:56 hearing process.
11:36:03 >>Mary Mulhern: I wanted to say to councilman Miranda
11:36:07 that there are limitations on sales, so you can't be
11:36:09 selling unless it's commercial.
11:36:13 You can't sell from that plot.
11:36:15 And I agree with you that the alcohol, I think the
11:36:20 restriction, I thought the restrictions on it was
11:36:27 pretty restrictive.
11:36:28 It like you are going to have a barbecue or you are
11:36:30 going to have friends over on your front lawn and might
11:36:34 have a beer, that might happen but it's less likely to
11:36:37 happen in a garden where this is a work space.
11:36:40 And I don't -- no one is going to go to the trouble of
11:36:44 creating something like this to, you know, to have it
11:36:46 be a venue.
11:36:47 It's just not going to happen.
11:36:49 The regulations that are written in here as is would
11:36:52 prevent that from happening.
11:36:57 And as far as the water meter, as far as the costs,
11:37:03 part of the reason that this ordinance came forward, I
11:37:07 think, is because the administration decided they
11:37:10 didn't want to partner on any of this, they didn't want
11:37:12 the parks department to be involved, they didn't want
11:37:14 to give land, they didn't want to contribute.
11:37:16 So we are trying to find a way for private property
11:37:20 owners and communities to do their thing.
11:37:24 And there's no -- there is no city investment in this
11:37:29 at all.
11:37:29 And this was a suggestion about the water meters, and
11:37:32 they are certainly not saying they want free water.
11:37:34 I think what they are saying is they want to be able to
11:37:37 have a water meter so they can buy water from the city.
11:37:40 Is that what we are saying?
11:37:49 >>Catherine Coyle: Just top reiterate.
11:37:51 As far as I know there is no subsidy from the city.
11:37:56 It's a garden private.
11:37:58 You have to come in and apply, pay for the permit, get
11:38:01 it annually, and it's all on you to make sure that it
11:38:05 works properly.
11:38:09 That's it.
11:38:12 >>Thomas Scott: Do we need to take any action to move
11:38:15 >>Catherine Coyle: I would ask that you transmit it to
11:38:17 the planning commission for consideration in the
11:38:20 January cycle.
11:38:24 >>Thomas Scott: Okay.
11:38:25 >>Mary Mulhern: I would like to hear from the public.
11:38:29 >>Thomas Scott: They will have to wait till we hear
11:38:31 from our next issue.
11:38:32 We may lose a quorum.
11:38:33 Let's hear from the fire department on our next issue.
11:38:41 >>Mary Mulhern: Excuse me, we would like to transmit
11:38:44 >>Thomas Scott: We are running out of time.
11:38:46 It is now almost 20 minutes till 12:00.
11:38:48 We can't hear from the public because we have another
11:38:50 issue or we are going to lose our quorum.
11:38:52 So what I am saying is we have another report that
11:38:56 needs to come before us.
11:38:57 Let's take the report.
11:38:58 Whatever time remains we'll hear from the public.
11:39:02 >>Mary Mulhern: We can't vote if we lose our quorum.
11:39:06 Shelby: The issue is transmittal action would have to
11:39:11 be required today.
11:39:14 >>Mary Mulhern: I'll move to transmit it.
11:39:15 And then I will hear from the public if we don't have a
11:39:19 I'll still be here.
11:39:23 Shelby: If I can, council's rules normally would
11:39:25 require we take public comment.
11:39:27 Unanimously you can waive those rules.
11:39:29 Obviously it's just a transmittal.
11:39:31 It doesn't adopt anything today.
11:39:33 So my suggestion, council, we can always expedite
11:39:36 Just very quickly make a motion to waive the rules with
11:39:40 regards to taking action just to transmit.
11:39:43 >>Mary Mulhern: Do you think that's a good precedent to
11:39:45 waive the rules, having a public hearing because it's
11:39:47 convenient for the people, the few of us that are still
11:39:52 >>Thomas Scott: It's not a public hearing, though.
11:39:54 >>Mary Mulhern: Okay, public comment.
11:39:58 Shelby: It would be my recommendation that you take
11:40:01 public comment and you can always limit to the one
11:40:04 minute or whatever council wishes.
11:40:07 >>Mary Mulhern: Give somebody one minute, please.
11:40:11 >>Thomas Scott: If we have one person that wants to
11:40:13 Yeah what I'm saying is we have another item.
11:40:18 >>Mary Mulhern: But we do want to transmit it so we
11:40:20 need to have a spokesperson.
11:40:25 >>Thomas Scott: Okay, does a spokesperson want to come,
11:40:27 one person, two minutes?
11:40:28 Okay, come on.
11:40:29 Two minutes.
11:40:30 >> Thank you.
11:40:35 Robin Milkowitz.
11:40:38 First of all, we really appreciate all the work that
11:40:43 you have done in putting this together, and Mary as
11:40:45 Some of the things that we disagree with are just, you
11:40:47 know, very small items.
11:40:49 The biggest thing is definitely the size limitation.
11:40:53 This ordinance might be talking about small gardens
11:40:57 that exist now.
11:40:58 But we could potentially be talking about large gardens
11:41:01 And the nonprofit status of community gardens can still
11:41:05 happen in a large format.
11:41:06 They do.
11:41:09 So I think if we are allowed to take anything out that
11:41:13 would be the biggest thing.
11:41:14 The next biggest thing would probably be the
11:41:18 The fund-raising requirement.
11:41:20 We do a lost things in the garden like pot lucks and
11:41:23 having people come down for dinners.
11:41:26 And we do raise money.
11:41:28 We sell T-shirts.
11:41:29 We sell other items for the garden.
11:41:31 And that's consider fund-raising.
11:41:32 And if we can't do that, that's a little much for us.
11:41:35 And if we were to talk about keeping those
11:41:38 restrictions, then maybe we could possibly change it to
11:41:40 fund-raising events with more than six people and still
11:41:45 have small events all year long.
11:41:51 Two of the things we need to talk about are that
11:41:54 community gardens are really nothing but a benefit for
11:41:57 the immediate community.
11:41:59 So many people that live near us have joined the
11:42:05 They love it.
11:42:06 They love the idea.
11:42:10 The idea of, you know, a community garden.
11:42:17 Want to make sure the community is involved and
11:42:21 It's really important.
11:42:24 I think three of the things that community gardens
11:42:28 actually does is it provides education for people to
11:42:31 eat healthy.
11:42:31 It also provides education for kids.
11:42:34 We have lots of kids that come down and learn how to
11:42:37 grow stuff.
11:42:37 I think that's really, really important, that these
11:42:40 community gardens are providing that you can't find
11:42:43 Parks and rec doesn't have that.
11:42:45 These happen somewhat but you can't get local schools
11:42:47 in my neighborhood to go over to the extension service.
11:42:50 But they can drive down to be my garden.
11:42:53 So it's a great local resource for the school.
11:42:57 But also provides an economical means for people that
11:43:01 can't afford healthy food, you know.
11:43:03 It's really -- we are not talking about keeping
11:43:07 anybody --
11:43:09 (Bell sounds)
11:43:09 Thank you.
11:43:12 >>Thomas Scott: Thank you.
11:43:12 Well, let me just say, Seminole Heights has done an
11:43:15 excellent job.
11:43:16 I was there for a press conference that we support
11:43:21 community gardens.
11:43:22 However, I'm hearing Ms. Coyle saying, you know, she
11:43:26 doesn't know the implications based on this yes or no,
11:43:29 yes or no answer.
11:43:30 So before we enact those kind of changes, she needs to
11:43:33 do some research on them.
11:43:34 I am for moving forward to the planning commission to
11:43:37 get something, because you can always come back and
11:43:40 amend this, change it.
11:43:41 So from day one I said let's get something on the books
11:43:47 and they can come back and make any kind of change that
11:43:50 you need to make.
11:43:51 It's not something that cannot be changed.
11:43:53 >> Right.
11:43:58 >>Mary Mulhern: Go ahead.
11:43:59 I'm going to move that we transmit it but I would like
11:44:01 to ask that we strike the acreage limit, and between
11:44:05 the now and the time that comes back.
11:44:11 Ms. Coyle can do research.
11:44:12 We can all do research and we can put that limitation,
11:44:16 add that limitation in once we are satisfied that it
11:44:20 needs to be there and what it should be.
11:44:24 So if we need a little more time, and that's the only
11:44:26 big problem I have with it.
11:44:30 I think everything else we can address and I do
11:44:32 appreciate all the work that Ms. Coyle and Ms. Cole
11:44:37 have done on this, and we'll be working with them.
11:44:41 And I'm sorry it took me so long to get to it.
11:44:44 But that's happens.
11:44:45 So I move that we transmit it to the planning
11:44:49 And if you can just strike the acreage limit, we can do
11:44:52 the research on that in the meantime before it comes
11:44:57 >>Charlie Miranda: I realize, Mr. Chairman, a lot of
11:44:59 people have done a lot of hard work and spent a lot of
11:45:01 time and when I first heard this concept two or three
11:45:05 years ago, it was about growing something for the poor.
11:45:10 Now I see something in front of me that talks about
11:45:13 having fund-raisers at the event, they say the city
11:45:17 would spend no money for water meters.
11:45:20 Let me say this.
11:45:21 If your water meter in a house is not used for a
11:45:24 certain period of time that water meter is pulled out.
11:45:27 Am I correct?
11:45:31 Sometimes when you redo a water line, I've had friends
11:45:34 of mine, not I, but I know of friends of mine who have
11:45:37 bought a house that has been vacant for four years, and
11:45:42 the city has done not a resurfacing but repiping of the
11:45:47 Guess what happened when they bought the house.
11:45:49 They charged them $2400 because of the costs of the new
11:45:55 line that even though they didn't have any benefit of
11:45:57 it forever, and the cost of replacing the water meter.
11:46:01 So I don't know where you are going to find properties,
11:46:03 but there are danger points in these things that no one
11:46:06 has considered.
11:46:07 Who is going to pay that kind of money in case these
11:46:10 meters are out, and in case there's been a new line put
11:46:14 in, and no one lives there?
11:46:15 And it's not going to be me.
11:46:17 I am not going to pass that off to the general public.
11:46:21 I'll tell you that right now.
11:46:22 I'm not against anybody planting anything at their
11:46:25 house in, their lawn, wherever they want.
11:46:27 That's their property.
11:46:28 But when I start talking about a block, now two acres
11:46:34 is a lot of land.
11:46:35 You can produce a lot of property product and you can
11:46:37 sell and make a good living if you know how to do it.
11:46:42 I am not going to sponsor anything -- and I'm against
11:46:48 any regulations for these kinds of things coming,
11:46:51 meaning paying $57,000, paying a consultant, paying an
11:46:56 I'm against all that.
11:46:57 But there's got to be somewhere, where the neighbors
11:47:00 have to sign something, and the neighborhood and the
11:47:03 neighborhood associations have to approve something.
11:47:08 What am I doing there?
11:47:11 I don't believe I can tell one neighborhood, listen,
11:47:15 you can't build two houses on one lot, but on that lot
11:47:19 you can put a miniature farm, I guess, because it's an
11:47:26 And there are properties that are acre or larger but
11:47:30 there's very few only in certain sector of the town.
11:47:34 We are creating something that we -- I always say for
11:47:38 every action there's a reaction.
11:47:40 What's the reaction if you live next -- I don't know.
11:47:43 Maybe they like it.
11:47:44 Maybe they don't like it but no one asked them.
11:47:47 They just drop in at I would say the eleventh hour, but
11:47:52 the eleventh hour is in 30 minutes, drop in and say,
11:47:57 I can't yes and no.
11:48:01 And the only one in Florida is Tampa.
11:48:10 And California again.
11:48:12 So what I'm saying is, I'm not prepared to pass this or
11:48:16 go anywhere until I have these answers.
11:48:20 I just don't have an answer for these answers because I
11:48:23 don't know what they are.
11:48:25 >>Mary Mulhern: Let me say this.
11:48:26 I think there is confusion here, because -- let me say
11:48:33 >>Charlie Miranda: I haven't said anything.
11:48:36 >>Mary Mulhern: We don't have an ordinance right now so
11:48:38 strike Tampa off of there.
11:48:39 What that was supposed to show us is how other cities
11:48:42 who have community gardens, how they regulated it.
11:48:46 And for us to compare.
11:48:48 So that's what we should be looking at.
11:48:51 And the reason that they have to do fund-raising is
11:48:54 because they do have to pay for things like water
11:48:56 There is no -- the whole reason we are doing this is
11:49:00 because there is no investment of taxpayer dollars.
11:49:04 This is a way to help neighborhoods and communities
11:49:07 grow food or flowers, make it a more beautiful place,
11:49:12 make it a safer place, the benefits of it are huge.
11:49:15 And I also have to say we have a bunch of community
11:49:18 gardens now in the last couple of years in the city of
11:49:21 Tampa, and there have been no -- we don't have arrest
11:49:25 reports, we don't have code enforcement violations, we
11:49:28 have had no problems.
11:49:29 So if we do run into problems, then we fix it and
11:49:32 that's when we come back and we can write stricter
11:49:36 I don't think there's anything to worry about,
11:49:38 transmitting this to the planning commission.
11:49:40 We are not adopting anything.
11:49:42 It's going to come back for adoption.
11:49:44 And I think -- hopefully Ms. Coyle's work that she's
11:49:48 done on this, she would love to see it move forward.
11:49:56 >>Thomas Scott: The problem we have today is Mr.
11:49:58 Miranda is not comfortable with the language of the
11:50:00 acreage and you are moving that in your motion.
11:50:03 Listen, folk, you are not going to get anything passed
11:50:06 today in a few minutes.
11:50:07 I can tell you.
11:50:08 So my suggestion is, Ms. Coyle has worked out some
11:50:12 I think, council, we need to move the language that
11:50:16 she's provided, that it go to the planning commission
11:50:18 and it comes back, make those changes because we have
11:50:20 too many unanswered questions here today.
11:50:23 >>Mary Mulhern: Okay, that's fine.
11:50:25 >>Thomas Scott: I think Ms. Coyle is saying, okay,
11:50:27 trust me, let's do this, and then when it comes back,
11:50:32 that's the opportunity for council to come back, and,
11:50:34 you know, correct these things.
11:50:37 Because otherwise, I can count.
11:50:38 And you are not going to have the votes.
11:50:43 Of four people.
11:50:44 >>Mary Mulhern: That's fine.
11:50:45 I move of that we transmit the proposed ordinance to
11:50:50 the planning commission.
11:50:53 >>Thomas Scott: It's not an ordinance.
11:50:55 >>Mary Mulhern: Proposed text amendment.
11:50:58 >>Charlie Miranda: Mr. Chairman, I am going to second
11:50:59 that with many, many reservations, because I guarantee
11:51:02 you, if it comes back, and I have to vote on it, and
11:51:05 these questions that I pose today are not answered, I
11:51:07 am going to vote against my own second, which is
11:51:11 perfectly legal.
11:51:12 There's got to be a neighborhood component.
11:51:14 The neighbors must sign on.
11:51:16 I don't think I have the right to do anything.
11:51:20 I don't want to plant a palm tree garden next to it.
11:51:23 Not saying it's depending to happen because there's
11:51:25 nobody that plants palm trees on only an acre.
11:51:28 You have to have many, many acres to do that.
11:51:30 But this is a business.
11:51:31 I don't care anyway you look at it.
11:51:33 It is a business.
11:51:35 And I'm willing to gob forward and I'm not ready to
11:51:40 take the last step and go down the cliff.
11:51:45 >>Thomas Scott: Just moving it forward and come back.
11:51:47 We can make those changes.
11:51:50 And put in speed bumps.
11:51:53 I know at least in the county you had to have about 51%
11:51:56 of the neighborhood that sign off on that.
11:51:59 That could be something that you can put in here in the
11:52:02 future when this comes back, something along those
11:52:05 Councilwoman Mulhern.
11:52:08 >>Gwen Miller: Who purchased the equipment, the seed,
11:52:12 what you do to grow the plants?
11:52:13 Who pays for that?
11:52:16 >>Catherine Coyle: The people that run the community
11:52:18 garden are responsible to purchase all their own
11:52:21 equipment, plant the garden, harvest it, keep it clean,
11:52:24 all the maintenance responsibilities, everything that
11:52:26 has to do with the community garden because it's a
11:52:29 private entity is the responsibility falls on the
11:52:31 community gardening group.
11:52:35 >>Gwen Miller: Not notifying the neighbor neighbors and
11:52:39 that's not going to be in there, right?
11:52:45 >>Catherine Coyle: As it sits right now, that's
11:52:48 >>Gwen Miller: I am not comfortable with that because I
11:52:49 think you need to notify the neighborhood.
11:52:52 >>Catherine Coyle: What I would hate to happen is this
11:52:54 regulation get bogged down because of that issue.
11:52:56 I think it's a process question and we can potentially
11:52:58 answer that question when it comes back.
11:53:01 >>Thomas Scott: And that's what we have been arguing
11:53:03 for the last 45 minutes is that you are really not
11:53:05 approving the ordinance or anything today.
11:53:07 You are just moving it.
11:53:08 When it comes back, you can put all that language in
11:53:11 You can work on this.
11:53:14 If we don't move it forward today, it will be the next
11:53:17 cycle before you can do that.
11:53:18 And when is that?
11:53:21 >>Catherine Coyle: The July cycle.
11:53:25 >>Charlie Miranda: They say 20-horsepower engines.
11:53:28 That sounds great when compared to an automobile
11:53:31 That's a lot more horsepower.
11:53:33 350 or whatever.
11:53:35 A little Cushman eagle has an 8.5-horsepower engine
11:53:39 that at 75 miles per hour makes a lot of noise.
11:53:42 A 12.5-horsepower Cushman makes more noise.
11:53:46 A 20-horsepower engine can pull a semi if it had to.
11:53:51 So the noise barrier has not been included in here.
11:53:55 And you don't have to have two acres.
11:53:57 A lot of these are going to be a lot, plot of land,
11:54:00 something much less than two acres.
11:54:02 So what I'm saying is these are the things that are
11:54:04 going to be addressed when it comes back to make these
11:54:08 things work.
11:54:09 So I'm letting the whole public know now that I am not
11:54:13 going to support something that makes noise.
11:54:16 The same thing they do in Ybor City or Channelside.
11:54:19 I want to get away before the problem starts.
11:54:22 I'm not against them.
11:54:23 And I want to make sure that they do what they have top
11:54:25 do, cross the TT's and dot the I's and that contained
11:54:32 of stuff, because somebody is going to get upset.
11:54:36 I don't care if it's those streets, somebody is not
11:54:39 going to like them.
11:54:39 So I want to make sure that all these things are
11:54:42 covered on the basis of what we have the public
11:54:45 That's all, Mr. Chairman.
11:54:49 >>Thomas Scott: That's a motion.
11:54:50 Moved and seconded.
11:54:51 All in favor?
11:54:55 >>Gwen Miller: Nay.
11:54:58 >>Catherine Coyle: I would say the only other
11:55:00 compromise that we might have, given the public
11:55:05 outreach of the city in creating this regulation is, as
11:55:09 Ms. Mulhern said, a lot of contact from the east Tampa
11:55:12 area to actually create these things.
11:55:14 And, of course, there is one in Seminole Heights now.
11:55:17 So this would legitimize that one once they received
11:55:20 their permit.
11:55:21 We could also take a scaled-back approach, allow this
11:55:25 within those two overlay districts only, and then if it
11:55:28 worked, as a test run, we advantage the rest of the
11:55:35 That's a compromise approach that I could write it in,
11:55:38 only allowed in those two areas of the city for now.
11:55:45 >>Mary Mulhern: Can I please ask a question of Mrs.
11:55:48 If we could transmit this with direction to legal to
11:55:51 find -- because I did bring the same thing up when we
11:55:56 talked about this about public notice and about getting
11:55:58 neighborhood involvement, direction to legal to find as
11:56:03 chairman Scott suggested, there are ways that the
11:56:05 county has done this.
11:56:06 So there is the neighborhood approval and consent
11:56:10 before you can do it.
11:56:11 So Julia, are there some things that we can veg
11:56:15 investigate when this comes back?
11:56:16 >> Julia Cole: I'm happy to have review legally
11:56:21 whether or not we can review through the process some
11:56:24 kind of notification that has legal meaning to it.
11:56:26 And I can speak with Ms. Coyle a little further about
11:56:29 that, if you want to go ahead and transmit this, the
11:56:32 procedural portions of it.
11:56:33 I would have to take it separately.
11:56:37 But procedural issues are not something the planning
11:56:40 commission has jurisdiction over.
11:56:43 >>Gwen Miller: By changing the vote you promise --
11:56:45 >> I will look into it and give my best legal advice as
11:56:48 to what we can do to go ahead and add some notification
11:56:52 provision in here without undermining the legitimacy of
11:56:55 the decision-making process.
11:56:57 >>Gwen Miller: I'll change my vote and let it be
11:57:02 >>Mary Mulhern: Thank you.
11:57:08 I move to trains change this to the planning commission
11:57:12 as text amendment.
11:57:16 >>Thomas Scott: Moved and seconded.
11:57:18 All in favor?
11:57:19 >>MARY MULHERN:And make a motion for legal to come back
11:57:21 with provisions for a public notice requirement when we
11:57:25 adopt the ordinance.
11:57:29 >>Thomas Scott: Moved and seconded.
11:57:30 All in favor say Aye.
11:57:33 Let's hear from the fire chief.
11:57:37 Tom Forward is here to give us a report on what is in
11:57:46 place to address the emergency situation should the oil
11:57:50 spill affect the city of Tampa and our beaches, our
11:57:56 Yes, sir.
11:57:58 >>> Good morning.
11:57:59 Tom Forward, acting fire chief, fire rescue, here to
11:58:05 discuss your questions concerning the provisions and
11:58:09 the protections that the city of Tampa has in place
11:58:12 with respect to the Gulf oil spill.
11:58:15 As you know, our present state, our bay area and coast
11:58:23 lane there's no imminent immediate peril with the
11:58:28 catastrophic breech out there.
11:58:29 We have been in constant collaboration, office of
11:58:33 emergency management with the county emergency
11:58:35 operations center and the state emergency operations
11:58:37 center with respect to that incident.
11:58:39 And again at this time we don't have any significant
11:58:42 danger that's being communicated with respect to our
11:58:47 So we have not spent any of our safety or any of our
11:58:56 emergency response conditions other than our normal
11:58:58 operating procedure with respect to managing this.
11:59:03 As you know it's already been managed by the BP,
11:59:06 British petroleum oil company, in connection with the
11:59:11 U.S. Coast Guard and the other FEMA person at this
11:59:23 >>Thomas Scott: Any questions?
11:59:25 >>Mary Mulhern: I want to welcome -- congratulations.
11:59:27 Thanks for pulling this together for us.
11:59:29 I just wanted to say that I'm on the regional planning
11:59:34 And we had a discussion with representatives from all
11:59:38 the cities and counties in the four-county area, and
11:59:43 unlike some other jurisdictions, the city of Tampa,
11:59:51 this council passed a resolution back in October of
11:59:57 last year asking the state not to allow more drilling.
12:00:02 So I think we need to have credit for having that
12:00:08 foresight but I want to say something that we can think
12:00:11 about here is the county did a letter after the oil
12:00:15 spill to Congress and to the state legislature, the
12:00:21 governor, and I think the president saying, you know,
12:00:26 discouraging them from allowing any more new drilling.
12:00:30 What we found out on the regional planning council is
12:00:33 we had a policy in place that talked about 100 miles
12:00:38 was the distance, and we are going to change that to
12:00:43 the distance that's in I think the federal regulation
12:00:45 that's being proposed, or I think that is being
12:00:49 So we could think about doing that encouragement.
12:00:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I just want to thank governor Crist
12:00:56 for getting his committee together to ask BP to pay at
12:01:04 least 35 million because of the tourism the state
12:01:08 depends on and we are being hurt.
12:01:10 I always say something man made is going to break.
12:01:12 And this is evident that it was man made and it broke.
12:01:16 And that these people that wanted oil drilling in the
12:01:21 Gulf of Mexico, the last time I saw was in the Ocala
12:01:26 forest hiding under a rock, because they don't seem to
12:01:30 understand that we believe taxation limits we have.
12:01:37 But we also are a tourist state.
12:01:39 And this is our live hood and it's affecting not only
12:01:45 the fishermen but all the industries -- hotels, motels,
12:01:49 food, anyone that lives in Florida, you have an
12:01:54 indirect feeling to this.
12:01:57 Maybe you don't realize it.
12:02:00 But because if somebody doesn't come in and the taxes
12:02:02 are not created then the taxes really fall own, and you
12:02:05 haven't done anything wrong.
12:02:06 So I commend the governor, and I think he's going to
12:02:10 call a special session from what I read in the
12:02:13 newspapers and see on television to maybe ban oil
12:02:17 drilling in the Gulf of Mexico.
12:02:21 You know, we live too long with too much, and it's
12:02:24 about time we start living with a little less.
12:02:27 And I commend them for doing what he's doing.
12:02:29 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
12:02:33 >>Thomas Scott: Let me just thank you for the report
12:02:34 that we have here, because it's very important for us
12:02:37 to understand what is happening, and specific relative
12:02:44 to what's going on, the oil spill and all of the
12:02:47 economic impact, including, you know, the seafood
12:02:51 industry and all of that is being impacted by this
12:02:57 It's good to know that we have something in place, and
12:03:00 that we are working to make sure should any kind of
12:03:04 catastrophe like that get close to Tampa, but we are
12:03:09 not in danger at the moment.
12:03:11 And so hopefully as we move forward and continue to
12:03:14 monitor this, and your staff and continue to work with
12:03:18 the EOC.
12:03:21 Any other questions?
12:03:22 Any other comments on that?
12:03:25 >>Gwen Miller: Thank you for coming.
12:03:28 >>Thomas Scott: Thank you very much for that.
12:03:29 We have an item.
12:03:31 >> Motion to receive and file.
12:03:36 >> So moved.
12:03:36 >> Second.
12:03:40 >>Gwen Miller: You want to give a commendation for
Mother Thelma Louise Williams Pleasant,
12:03:44 who is going to be 100 years old on June
12:03:46 8th, and I will be taking this commendation to her.
12:03:50 >> Moved and seconded.
12:03:51 All in favor?
12:03:52 Anything else to come before us?
12:03:55 >>Mary Mulhern: I have one item that I need to bring
12:03:58 We voted on days for the budget workshop last week and
12:04:03 it turns out pony wise is not going to be here on the
12:04:06 day we picked which is June 10th.
12:04:08 So I would like to propose as an alternate June
12:04:11 17th at 1:30.
12:04:14 That's day where we have a night meeting.
12:04:17 But it's a Thursday.
12:04:22 There's that, or it looks like we are going to have to
12:04:25 have it on a date other than Thursday.
12:04:27 The other date she recommended was June 22nd on a
12:04:31 Tuesday at 10 a.m.
12:04:32 And I think we have in the past done this on days that
12:04:37 were not council days.
12:04:38 So if that would be better.
12:04:41 June 22nd, Tuesday, 10 a.m.
12:04:45 >>Thomas Scott: Moved and seconded.
12:04:46 All in favor say Aye.
12:04:49 June 22nd it is.
12:04:50 >> Shelby: For purposes of the record tonight, a
12:04:55 reminder to people who may be intending to attend city
12:04:59 council tonight, that the evening session beginning at
12:05:02 501 on Thursday, May 13th, 2010, has been canceled.
12:05:06 The hearings that have been scheduled for tonight have
12:05:08 been rescheduled and shall be heard by the Tampa City
12:05:11 Council at 6 p.m. on Thursday, May 27th, 2010, in
12:05:17 city council chambers here at 315 East Kennedy
12:05:20 Thank you.
12:05:23 >>Thomas Scott: Also the public hearing tonight on
12:05:27 Sligh for the transportation referendum.
12:05:29 We want to encourage those members of the public to
12:05:32 please attend that and let their voices be heard.
12:05:35 That's tonight at 6 p.m. at the all people center on
12:05:39 Sligh Avenue.
12:05:41 With that we stand adjourned.
12:05:42 Thank you.
12:05:45 (The meeting adjourned at 12:06 a.m.)
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