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Thursday, May 13, 2010

11 a.m. Special Called Session


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11:00:45 >> Tampa City Council will now come to order.

11:02:59 We'll have roll call.

11:03:00 [Roll call]

11:03:00 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Here.

11:03:02 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.

11:03:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.

11:03:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.

11:03:07 Let me read into the record a memorandum from

11:03:10 Councilwoman Saul-Sena.

11:03:12 Please be advised that I will be unable to attend the

11:03:15 morning city council special called meeting scheduled

11:03:18 on Thursday, May 13, 2010.

11:03:21 This is from Councilwoman Saul-Sena.

11:03:27 Saul-Sena.

11:03:29 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, I need to leave

11:03:31 early today.

11:03:32 I have another meeting in my district.

11:03:35 In fact, I have two meetings.

11:03:36 And I'll be leaving shortly once we get started.

11:03:39 And on item 89 that was brought up last week was a

11:03:43 motion by Mulhern Caetano that the legal department be

11:03:47 requested to bring back a resolution, the after-school

11:03:51 summer fees back to the level prior to adopting

11:03:54 resolution 2009-699.

11:03:57 The motion failed, and I voted against it.

11:04:00 And my intent was to vote to roll back those fees.

11:04:06 I don't know whether I voted improperly or -- it was

11:04:10 recorded wrong.

11:04:11 I'm not sure.

11:04:11 But I would like to make a motion for reconsideration

11:04:16 on that motion.

11:04:17 >> Well, we probably need to hear from legal.

11:04:21 That's not on our agenda.

11:04:22 And those persons that were here -- I'll let the

11:04:26 attorney speak to that real quick.

11:04:28 >>Martin Shelby: Mr. Chairman, this is the next

11:04:33 scheduled meeting but not a for example regular

11:04:34 meeting.

11:04:35 If council wishes to take it up today, or if you wish

11:04:37 you could bring it up when you have the next regular

11:04:40 meeting.

11:04:40 You do have a quorum today.

11:04:44 It's not inappropriate touch bring it up today if

11:04:46 council wishes to take it up.

11:04:48 If council wishes to add it to next week's agenda, you

11:04:51 can have that under unfinished business next week and

11:04:53 have a full council to have a discussion on it.

11:04:55 >> As I recall, that was the issue raised by

11:04:59 Councilwoman Mulhern, because we were having them come

11:05:04 back with a report.

11:05:07 However, I would suggest that you bring it up at our

11:05:09 next meeting so that we have a full council.

11:05:17 >>> And I think the purpose of Mr. Caetano wanting to

11:05:19 bring up this issue besides revisiting the issue is the

11:05:22 fact that his vote is recorded incorrectly.

11:05:25 So I guess it's council's decision to bring it up

11:05:29 again, did you want this added to the agenda for next

11:05:31 week or bring it up under new business for next week?

11:05:35 Do you wish to have this appear on the agenda?

11:05:38 >>Thomas Scott: Well, we could do that.

11:05:41 Another thing was the letter pertaining to the 19

11:05:44 million and the 160 million, I guess my intent was to

11:05:49 have the chairman draft a letter to the governor in

11:05:53 reference to that.

11:05:59 That request is send the governor a letter, that line

11:06:09 item out of the budget taking $19 million from the

11:06:12 expressway authority.

11:06:13 So that's where you are making a motion to that effect.

11:06:19 >>MARY MULHERN: I thought we already vetoed that.

11:06:23 >> Direct a letter on behalf of the city council

11:06:28 encouraging governor Crist to veto the portion of the

11:06:31 implementing bill that takes 19 million from the Tampa

11:06:34 Hillsborough county expressway authority further, that

11:06:39 vetoed to the language that sweeps 160 million from the

11:06:43 transportation trust fund.

11:06:57 Mr. Miranda, I'll save a seat for you in 2012.

11:07:00 >> Mr. Caetano had two letters on this issue, and the

11:07:17 motion to send out a letter on behalf of the entire

11:07:20 city council signed by the chairman.

11:07:23 And my understanding is that the governor has not

11:07:26 addressed these issues.

11:07:29 >> So there's a motion made by councilman Caetano,

11:07:34 seconded by mirror Rand A.all in favor signify by

11:07:37 saying Aye.

11:07:38 All opposes?

11:07:39 Okay.

11:07:39 >> Mr. Chairman, with regard to item 89, the first item

11:07:44 that Mr. Caetano raised, the issue of reconsideration

11:07:47 of this motion.

11:07:49 If council would please by motion put this back under

11:07:52 unfinished business so it will appear on the agenda.

11:07:59 Moved and seconded.

11:08:00 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

11:08:02 Opposes?

11:08:04 Okay.

11:08:04 Let's take up the item 1 on the agenda.

11:08:39 My concern at this point is we are going to lose our

11:08:42 quorum shortly.

11:08:43 I would like to deal with the report, the report about

11:08:49 the oil spill and whatever time we have remaining we

11:08:52 can use that for the public comments if council is so

11:08:54 amenable to that.

11:09:06 >>> I'm not sure how to proceed with this.

11:09:08 Maybe we can get Cathy's advice on this. Marty and I

11:09:09 met with Ms. Coyle on the community gardening and

11:09:18 recommended a number of changes which had been made.

11:09:21 But I didn't receive the changed ordinance until 7:00

11:09:26 last night, and I was in a meeting last night.

11:09:29 I only was able to look at it just now.

11:09:31 And we had some people from some community gardening

11:09:34 who also couldn't see it until last night. I'm not

11:09:42 comfortable with the language in this.

11:09:45 And I think we can work it out.

11:09:46 But I don't November that we have time to work it out

11:09:49 right now.

11:09:52 So I guess we could go over the changes that would make

11:09:58 it, you know, more amenable, and then transmit it.

11:10:04 If the community gardeners are happy we've that, but

11:10:09 it's not -- I am going to apologize myself because I

11:10:17 wish that I had been more proactive in drafting this,

11:10:23 because one of the things we have, which -- I don't

11:10:26 know, Robin, can you make copies of this chart you

11:10:29 made?

11:10:30 She has copies.

11:10:31 Let me just say what has happened.

11:10:33 She surveyed a number of big cities, mid size cities

11:10:38 like us to see who has large community gardens,

11:10:43 components in their cities happening right now, and how

11:10:47 their ordinances work and there are a lot of things in

11:10:49 ours that they don't have.

11:10:51 So I guess maybe, Cathy, the question is, is there any

11:10:56 way we can still work on this for a little bit of time

11:10:59 and get it in the planning commission for the cycle of

11:11:04 changes?

11:11:06 >>Catherine Coyle: My deadline is tomorrow to get it

11:11:08 done.

11:11:08 >> And what is that deadline?

11:11:10 Explain that to me.

11:11:11 >> They have a 30-day deadline to get it onto the

11:11:14 planning commission recommendation hearing schedule.

11:11:20 >>Mary Mulhern: But I know that we have a policy about

11:11:22 only doing this.

11:11:24 What do we do it, quarterly, twice a year?

11:11:27 >> Semiannually.

11:11:28 >> It's a rule?

11:11:32 >> Catherine Coyle: It's a code requirement.

11:11:35 >> It's written into our code?

11:11:37 >> Correct.

11:11:37 >> So this was already late for this cycle, right?

11:11:40 So when is the next cycle?

11:11:42 >> July 15th is the next cycle.

11:11:48 >>Thomas Scott: The issue, though, is moving it

11:11:49 forward.

11:11:50 You can always amend this, is that right? It's best to

11:11:53 get something, what you want and amend it in the next

11:11:58 cycle.

11:11:58 >> It will be at least another two months before it

11:12:01 comes back.

11:12:04 >>Mary Mulhern: But here is what I would like to do.

11:12:05 And since we didn't get those amendments till last

11:12:08 night, I think we should hear from the public because

11:12:16 they can probably explain better than me what we need

11:12:18 to change.

11:12:19 But when I first looked at the initial draft of this, I

11:12:24 did believe there were actual entire requirements that

11:12:27 could be, you know, struck from here because they are

11:12:31 not necessary, and we come to find out the other cities

11:12:34 aren't doing those things either.

11:12:35 So if we could agree on some of these things, these

11:12:39 changes right now before it's transmitted, and then

11:12:44 make the other changes and have the discussion, the

11:12:48 broader discussion when it comes back up to adopt.

11:12:53 So I think what would help -- and I'm trying to move

11:12:58 this along -- if we could hear from the public.

11:13:00 >>Catherine Coyle: If I could make a suggestion.

11:13:03 If you are looking at potentially striking something

11:13:05 from this regulation, I would suggest just transmitting

11:13:08 it the way that it is.

11:13:10 You can pull things from a it when you come back.

11:13:12 It makes it more difficulty to add whole new concepts

11:13:15 when you come back, because the question always comes

11:13:18 to whether or not the state planning commission

11:13:21 reviewed it.

11:13:21 But you can take requirements out.

11:13:23 You can always make something less.

11:13:26 >>Mary Mulhern: That's very good direction.

11:13:27 So can we please hear from the public about this?

11:13:30 Because they are the ones that are the experts.

11:13:35 >>Thomas Scott: Well, let me say, I want to take up

11:13:39 different staff on both issues and whatever time we

11:13:42 have left hear from the public because we are going to

11:13:44 lose the quorum here at 11:30.

11:13:46 So the issues before us that we need to address, one

11:13:50 and two, after we hear from staff on these issues, and

11:13:53 hear from the public, in whatever time we have left.

11:13:56 I don't want to just take up one item and not get to

11:13:59 the second item as well because we are going to lose

11:14:01 the quorum.

11:14:23 >>Catherine Coyle: To be fair, these regulations have

11:14:26 been out for nine months because they were in the

11:14:28 previous cycle and they only changed the portions that

11:14:30 are in yellow which is based on our meeting that we had

11:14:33 last Wednesday.

11:14:34 The changes that were made based on the discussion that

11:14:36 we had was changing the size limitations to two acres,

11:14:41 changing the horsepower of the machinery that's used to

11:14:46 no greater than 20-horsepower, those permitted

11:14:57 structures do have to have certain setbacks which are

11:15:01 typically like in a residential zone classification.

11:15:04 The setbacks are three feet on the side and rear.

11:15:07 And then they meet 60 feet in the front.

11:15:12 It used to say shade pavilion and we changed to the

11:15:15 shade and water collection canopies because of the --

11:15:19 those water canopies that were started in the Seminole

11:15:22 Heights facility.

11:15:25 I made the change in 7-C, to say outdoor furniture as

11:15:32 opposed to benches.

11:15:38 Did say benches, I changed to the outdoor furniture.

11:15:44 The planting beds originally said that they had to meet

11:15:49 principal structure setbacks, 20 feet in the rear, 20

11:15:52 to 25 feet in the front under typical residential lots.

11:15:56 We changed that to 20 feet in the front yard to allow

11:16:01 for parking if it were there.

11:16:03 And then three feet on the side and rear.

11:16:08 Last coverage, originally it said walkways.

11:16:12 And the walkways, it's supposed to remain unpaved and

11:16:16 covered with mulch except as necessary to meet ADA

11:16:20 requirements.

11:16:20 We changed it to basic lot coverage requirement that

11:16:25 impervious materials that are used shall not exceed 35%

11:16:28 of the site area.

11:16:32 Signage was to comply with chapter 20.5, the basic

11:16:36 standard, and also the principal operator -- and I put

11:16:43 in parenthesis garden coordinator.

11:16:47 Councilwoman Mulhern sent through a model, protections

11:16:52 for community gardens and the public health policy

11:16:56 model zoning language.

11:16:59 So I read through that and compared to the what we had,

11:17:02 and there were a lot of similarities as far as the

11:17:06 requirements from what I saw in here.

11:17:09 There were some that were actually more stringent in

11:17:12 the model language.

11:17:15 For instance, it says permitted uses, community

11:17:17 gardens, the very first one.

11:17:19 Site users must provide a phase one environmental site

11:17:23 investment.

11:17:25 Sources of contamination must be tested to determine

11:17:29 contamination and so on and so forth.

11:17:32 We don't have any of that in our requirements.

11:17:36 If there's environmental contamination, it's going to

11:17:38 be up to the community garden people to deal with that

11:17:41 portion of it.

11:17:42 In the model language you actually Virginia to do that

11:17:44 assessment and provide it as part of the permitted use.

11:17:47 We didn't go there in ours.

11:17:50 It does site that a garden coordinator is supposed to

11:17:54 perform the coordinating the managements.

11:17:56 Garden and that's why I put that term in here as

11:17:58 opposed to just principal operator.

11:18:00 I kind of like that term garden coordinator.

11:18:03 There was some question about using the telephone

11:18:06 number, also including some other type of contact

11:18:10 information.

11:18:10 So I did add Web site or e-mail address on that

11:18:14 signage.

11:18:15 And those are the basic changes that I had in my notes

11:18:17 from the meeting that we had.

11:18:20 Like I said, I did go through the model language.

11:18:25 It had language in here about maintain so that water

11:18:29 and fertilizer will not drain onto adjacent property.

11:18:31 Our basic code covers that already for stormwater

11:18:34 purposes.

11:18:36 There should be no retail sales on-site.

11:18:39 Except for produce grown on the site.

11:18:43 Residential districts that are allowed.

11:18:47 It does say in the comment that if the municipal

11:18:53 chooses it may, alternatively it could permit gardeners

11:18:57 to sell produce at a different site.

11:19:00 Typically residential lots.

11:19:03 And always been construed and regulated if it's for a

11:19:07 residential purpose.

11:19:08 We allow the four events per year in this particular

11:19:12 concept for community gardens and if you wanted to sell

11:19:15 anything else you could go to a commercial site to sell

11:19:19 that.

11:19:21 Also in the model language it says that no buildings or

11:19:27 structures shall be permitted on the site.

11:19:29 However, sheds for storage, tools, limited to size, and

11:19:32 it gives you a blank.

11:19:34 We actually allow accessory structures no greater

11:19:37 height than 15 feet, which is -- it directly relates to

11:19:43 the residential accessory buildings, and that they

11:19:46 shall not exceed 20% of the garden site.

11:19:49 To keep it at an accessory use level.

11:19:55 So we kind of, without even knowing it, I felt like we

11:20:00 were fairly in line, and in some places, in some

11:20:03 instances not as restricted as the model language.

11:20:07 So I'm obviously willing to hear from the public on

11:20:11 this and what they are looking for and anything that

11:20:13 they bring up, I'll consider that, and how it's going

11:20:16 to relate, how we regulate in Tampa.

11:20:20 I obviously discussed the table.

11:20:23 The table itself looks like it highlights Tampa,

11:20:26 San Francisco, Cleveland, Nashville, royal oak,

11:20:31 Michigan, San Diego, California, and it's a yes-no

11:20:37 table, yes-no size limitation, yes or no, a lot of them

11:20:42 have nos in certain things.

11:20:44 I think for me, moving forward on this, I'll hear the

11:20:48 comments, but I would also like to go back and read the

11:20:51 regulations to see what the connotation, how it relates

11:20:54 in the rest of the regulation.

11:20:55 A simple yes or no isn't always the case especially

11:20:58 with zoning regulations.

11:21:00 There's always a caveat for something else.

11:21:01 So I think I would want to read through those.

11:21:15 >>Gwen Miller: It can be in someone's side yard, next

11:21:18 door to the side of the house?

11:21:21 >>Catherine Coyle: It could be an adjacent lot, yes.

11:21:25 >> Does the person have top agree to put thereto?

11:21:28 >> No.

11:21:28 >> Somebody can come to my house and --

11:21:30 >> On your particular property, of course you have to

11:21:34 agree to it.

11:21:34 >> I mean, next door.

11:21:36 If somebody just put a garden next door to my house?

11:21:40 >> If the owner of that particular piece of property

11:21:42 signed the application for someone to apply for a

11:21:44 community garden and it's zoned RS 50 then yes, they

11:21:47 could apply.

11:21:48 It's a special use one and approved administratively.

11:21:52 If they agree to meet these conditions then it would be

11:21:55 approved.

11:21:55 There's no public notice or public hearing requirement.

11:22:00 So if that property owner next to you on an adjacent

11:22:03 lot wanted to apply to have a community garden, and

11:22:06 they met the conditions, then yes, they could.

11:22:08 >> And nothing I could do about it?

11:22:10 >> No.

11:22:13 Not in that sense, no.

11:22:19 >>Gwen Miller: If I don't want it there -- you have to

11:22:21 live with it, huh?

11:22:23 If someone wanted to put that garden next to me,

11:22:26 there's nothing I could do about it?

11:22:28 >> The concept here is to allow this type of use

11:22:30 throughout the city, and virtually all the categories

11:22:34 that we have with these criteria.

11:22:37 That's correct.

11:22:38 But it doesn't matter whether or not the neighbor wants

11:22:40 it.

11:22:40 It's whether that property owner wants to allow this

11:22:42 type of use to occur on their property and apply for

11:22:45 this.

11:22:49 >>Thomas Scott: Councilwoman Mulhern and councilman

11:22:51 Caetano.

11:22:51 >> Councilwoman Miller, the point of the ordinance is

11:22:58 to regulate it so that if someone next door to you did

11:23:04 put in a garden, they couldn't do any of the things

11:23:07 that you might object to.

11:23:10 It's private property, and it's if the private property

11:23:14 owner wanted to plant a garden instead of building a

11:23:17 house or garage or whatever they wanted to build there,

11:23:21 and would allow for it to be used as a garden.

11:23:24 The principle of community gardening is that it be a

11:23:28 community thing, and I don't think the gardeners here

11:23:31 wouldn't have even thought about planting a garden

11:23:33 unless they had the neighborhood consent.

11:23:36 We have had community gardens that have been going for

11:23:38 a couple of years here, and in St. Pete, and there have

11:23:41 been no complaints, because no one is going to do that.

11:23:46 If you don't want it there.

11:23:47 No one is going to plant a garden somewhere where the

11:23:51 neighbors don't want it.

11:23:52 The point is that it be something that the community

11:23:54 wants and the first thing that they do, if they find

11:23:58 out if there is community support for it.

11:24:01 I think if you talk to Frances brooks and -- I don't

11:24:07 think they are here today -- but the garden we are

11:24:09 talking about B today in east Tampa they have people

11:24:11 coming by begging them, telling them about other empty

11:24:14 lots that they wish that they would do a garden there,

11:24:17 too.

11:24:17 So I think we have been talking about this for years,

11:24:21 and I think if you would visit some of the gardens,

11:24:24 hear from the gardening people, your fears would be

11:24:28 allayed of this.

11:24:29 There is nothing to be afraid of.

11:24:32 It's greens and flowers, and tastes really good and

11:24:37 it's healthy.

11:24:38 But, anyway, Cathy, I think that this chart is telling,

11:24:43 because when I talk to you, I did ask to have the pet

11:24:50 exclusion taken out.

11:24:51 If we could revisit this when it comes back, that's

11:24:55 fine.

11:24:55 But I think the one thing that I'm really concerned

11:24:57 about is the acreage.

11:25:01 If we -- none of these other cities had an acreage

11:25:08 minimum or requirement.

11:25:09 And I think the reality is in a city that's pretty

11:25:13 built out, you are not going to find a lot of property

11:25:16 that's more than half an acre, much less larger plot.

11:25:20 So to be able to assemble that is probably going to be

11:25:26 in a partial district or park, so it's not even going

11:25:30 to be a possibility unless, you know, it's going to be

11:25:35 a pretty special circumstance when you have anything

11:25:37 bigger.

11:25:38 And I don't see the need for that at this point.

11:25:40 And that's one of the major sticking points.

11:25:43 So as long as transmitting this today is not going to

11:25:48 lock us into that limitation, when it comes back to us.

11:25:52 That's my big thing.

11:25:55 My biggest concern.

11:25:59 >>Catherine Coyle: In that particular case I would

11:26:00 suggest that you take the limitation out, and then when

11:26:02 it came back, if thereby was an outcry that it needed

11:26:05 to be limited, that you add a limitation back.

11:26:09 >>Mary Mulhern: And we can hear from the planning

11:26:11 commission and do the research and find out if there's

11:26:13 really need for that.

11:26:15 That's my big sticking point that I think we do need to

11:26:18 hear from people.

11:26:19 >> Councilman Caetano and councilman Miranda.

11:26:33 >>Joseph Caetano: (off microphone) As Ms. Miller was

11:26:39 saying can they plant next door to her?

11:26:42 Some of these communities don't have restriction for

11:26:44 alcohol.

11:26:45 Say you have a bunch of people going there in Chicago

11:26:47 or wherever these places are, and have a little party

11:26:50 while they are gardening, don't want Mrs. Miller to be

11:26:55 disrupted.

11:26:58 >>Gwen Miller: That's right.

11:26:59 >>Charlie Miranda: I envision something there, and I

11:27:01 think I'm getting something more than what I envision.

11:27:03 I envision community gardening people getting together,

11:27:06 doing something in their backyard.

11:27:08 And I said a year ago, two years ago, that I was all

11:27:11 for this, but I didn't want the government to pay for

11:27:14 any of it.

11:27:15 Because I don't believe government should get involved

11:27:17 in this.

11:27:20 Now I read here, it says water meter, and provided by

11:27:24 city, water provided by city.

11:27:26 I don't know what that means.

11:27:27 But it means that somebody is going to get free water.

11:27:31 Let me say the city of Tampa lost $10 million from the

11:27:36 water department.

11:27:39 >>Mary Mulhern: You are reading the table, not the --

11:27:43 >>Charlie Miranda: I don't know if it's in there or

11:27:45 not.

11:27:46 I'm just going by -- I just got it.

11:27:50 I'm going on what I got.

11:27:51 I don't have anything other than that.

11:27:53 Size limitation.

11:27:54 When you talk about an acre, an acre is about --

11:28:00 >>Catherine Coyle: 43.

11:28:01 >> You are looking at over 08,000 square foot of land,

11:28:05 am I correct, for two acres?

11:28:07 >>Catherine Coyle: Correct.

11:28:09 >>Charlie Miranda: What does one acre of hay yield?

11:28:13 What does two acres of hay yield, if you wanted to

11:28:17 plant hay?

11:28:18 It yield a lot of hay, because I used to be in that

11:28:21 business of buying the hay for the horses that I used

11:28:24 to have.

11:28:25 So what I'm saying is this for-profit, not-for-profit,

11:28:31 I heard of sales on the land but nothing sold other

11:28:35 than what you grow there.

11:28:36 Well, am I setting up a business within a business to

11:28:38 compete against other business?

11:28:42 That's where my problems come in.

11:28:44 Do I start something here in the city partly subsidized

11:28:48 somehow by the city, maybe not, to compete with another

11:28:52 entity of farmers who are not getting the benefit of

11:28:56 that, Plant City area, Homosassa area, Odessa area,

11:29:02 Wimauma area, all of those areas.

11:29:04 So what I'm saying, I'm not against the idea.

11:29:08 But I am not going to tell you right now, vote for

11:29:12 something that is going to have a sale next to a house

11:29:15 that I don't know if the neighborhoods -- I guess the

11:29:20 neighborhoods are notified so they can have their own

11:29:22 discussion, and I don't give carte blanche to anybody.

11:29:26 I'm very restrictive and I'm very prudent on spending

11:29:29 money.

11:29:30 So what I'm saying is before we go on this there's a

11:29:35 lot of questions an answers that have to be in my

11:29:39 judgment -- I don't know about the others.

11:29:41 Maybe they meet all that criteria. I don't know what

11:29:43 they have done or haven't done.

11:29:45 I see here maximum fund-raising event restrictions.

11:29:48 I don't know what that means.

11:29:50 It could be you want to bring it back?

11:29:52 You want to sell -- I don't know what that means.

11:29:55 Sign requirements.

11:29:56 Are you going to have a sign there, a bill word board

11:29:58 that says, bye at Charlie's.

11:30:03 I don't really know.

11:30:04 I'm not trying to be funny or anything.

11:30:06 Ball playing prohibited.

11:30:08 What does that mean?

11:30:09 I don't know.

11:30:11 Alcohol restrictions.

11:30:12 Of course you can't sell alcohol unless you have a

11:30:15 license.

11:30:16 And zoned.

11:30:18 Size limitation.

11:30:19 I heard that now.

11:30:20 There's a question about no greater than two acres.

11:30:23 Well, when you look at the city of Tampa, how many

11:30:26 two-acre plots are there?

11:30:31 East Tampa?

11:30:34 Drew Park?

11:30:36 >>Catherine Coyle: There are portions of the city that

11:30:37 have a fair amount of vacant land that you can

11:30:40 assemble.

11:30:40 >> So what I'm saying is, could you do anything you

11:30:46 want.

11:30:50 >>Catherine Coyle: What came up in the meeting with Ms.

11:30:52 Mulhern is about the size limitation, where the one

11:30:56 acre came from.

11:30:57 You have your typical platted lot, typically two lots

11:31:03 deep, about 600 feet long and about 200 feet deep.

11:31:06 That is 120,000 square feet which is about two and a

11:31:10 half acres.

11:31:11 There are whole blocks and portion -- in portions of

11:31:14 the city that are vacant, and maybe there's one house.

11:31:18 That was part of that discussion that we had, what to

11:31:21 limit, what not to limit.

11:31:23 And I give the example in my particular neighborhood,

11:31:27 the church that is near me in Seminole Heights had

11:31:29 large tracts of land that are not parking lots.

11:31:32 They are just grass.

11:31:33 And they don't do anything with them.

11:31:35 And the thought is could that or could that not become

11:31:38 a garden?

11:31:40 And I think for me, I'm coming from the place of a

11:31:45 regulator looking at what is the purpose of a

11:31:47 residential lot?

11:31:48 And making sure we preserve that purpose as much as

11:31:52 possible while allowing reasonable uses of those

11:31:54 properties for things like this.

11:31:58 If you assemble what would be two and a half acres of

11:32:02 land immediately surrounded by homes, in that morph

11:32:08 into a small farm or a garden?

11:32:12 And it's hard to weigh.

11:32:13 I think that's where some of the people that do this as

11:32:16 a living or a Hobby probably need to weigh in.

11:32:21 For me I'm not trying to overregulate.

11:32:24 I'm just trying to make sure we preserve the purpose of

11:32:27 the residential lot where potentially something could

11:32:29 happen, because I know you are thinking that people

11:32:31 won't come in and do that.

11:32:34 The reality is, with a regulation, they could.

11:32:37 By allowing it, they can.

11:32:39 They can come and apply for it and they can do these

11:32:41 things and it becomes an enforcement issue.

11:32:44 That's the only thing.

11:32:45 I'm trying to make sure that we don't add something to

11:32:47 the center of the neighborhood that could become a

11:32:49 problem.

11:32:50 We need to make sure to capture those things that could

11:32:53 become issues and make sure that we write it down now.

11:32:56 Otherwise, we can't enforce it.

11:33:02 >>Gwen Miller: I think that's what we should put in,

11:33:05 that neighbors should be notified, to notify the

11:33:09 neighbors they are going to put it in and come down.

11:33:13 >> That becomes a process question.

11:33:14 Because I am trying to not make this a public hearing.

11:33:17 This should be something that if there is a reasonable

11:33:19 request that in my opinion they should be able to come,

11:33:23 say they are going to meet the conditions and receive

11:33:25 the permit.

11:33:26 >>Gwen Miller: But the neighbors need to know.

11:33:32 >>Catherine Coyle: If you have public notice it becomes

11:33:34 a public hearing and there is a large expense with

11:33:36 that.

11:33:36 There is a long time frame with that.

11:33:38 I think we can actually write the criteria the right

11:33:41 way to get those protections in here, and that way you

11:33:44 have a reasonable amount of enforcement.

11:33:46 Either way.

11:33:47 Even if they come to a public hearing and there are no

11:33:49 neighbors that say there's a problem with it, you guys

11:33:52 go ahead and approve it, there still could be

11:33:54 enforcement issues.

11:33:55 You have to have the criteria in here to make sure that

11:33:59 you can enforce it whether it's public hearing or not.

11:34:01 That's my point is making sure that we get the right

11:34:04 criteria.

11:34:07 >>Gwen Miller: I understand that but still the

11:34:08 neighbors need to know if you are going to put a garden

11:34:10 in your neighborhood.

11:34:11 I would hate to wake up one morning and they call and

11:34:14 say, they put this garden in and I didn't know anything

11:34:18 about it and it's too late.

11:34:19 What can you do?

11:34:20 Nothing.

11:34:21 Something needs to be in there that says that they go

11:34:26 door to door or something to let the neighbors know

11:34:28 they are going to put it there, and if they are having

11:34:30 a problem with them putting it there.

11:34:32 And what can you do to put that in your criteria?

11:34:37 >>Catherine Coyle: It's something we would have to look

11:34:38 into processwise.

11:34:40 Once there's public notice there's generally a hearing

11:34:42 that goes along with it.

11:34:43 >> Julia Cole, legal department.

11:34:47 You have to have strict criteria in the code, and

11:34:49 whatever administrative person is making that decision

11:34:51 is obligated to grant a permit.

11:34:54 You can have something in your code which says there

11:34:57 will be some kind of notification, the fact that a

11:35:01 permit is pending.

11:35:02 But all that does is let people know that it's

11:35:05 happening.

11:35:06 What it can't do is impact the decision.

11:35:09 You can either meet the criteria or you don't.

11:35:12 In order to have that public information, have a value

11:35:16 and a meaning to it, you have to have a public hearing

11:35:19 where that information that is given by members of the

11:35:21 public is weighed by the body making the decision.

11:35:27 We have had an inherent problem with that with a lot of

11:35:29 our processes and we tried to remove those public

11:35:32 notice requirements in situations where granting public

11:35:35 notice without having an opportunity to have it be

11:35:39 meaningful just creates more problems than it solves.

11:35:41 So if it is felt that it is something where public

11:35:45 notification is felt to be necessary, I'm always going

11:35:51 to recommend that you do not have it be an

11:35:53 administrative decision, that you have it be a public

11:35:56 hearing process.

11:36:03 >>Mary Mulhern: I wanted to say to councilman Miranda

11:36:07 that there are limitations on sales, so you can't be

11:36:09 selling unless it's commercial.

11:36:12 Right?

11:36:13 You can't sell from that plot.

11:36:15 And I agree with you that the alcohol, I think the

11:36:20 restriction, I thought the restrictions on it was

11:36:27 pretty restrictive.

11:36:28 It like you are going to have a barbecue or you are

11:36:30 going to have friends over on your front lawn and might

11:36:34 have a beer, that might happen but it's less likely to

11:36:37 happen in a garden where this is a work space.

11:36:40 And I don't -- no one is going to go to the trouble of

11:36:44 creating something like this to, you know, to have it

11:36:46 be a venue.

11:36:47 It's just not going to happen.

11:36:49 The regulations that are written in here as is would

11:36:52 prevent that from happening.

11:36:57 And as far as the water meter, as far as the costs,

11:37:03 part of the reason that this ordinance came forward, I

11:37:07 think, is because the administration decided they

11:37:10 didn't want to partner on any of this, they didn't want

11:37:12 the parks department to be involved, they didn't want

11:37:14 to give land, they didn't want to contribute.

11:37:16 So we are trying to find a way for private property

11:37:20 owners and communities to do their thing.

11:37:24 And there's no -- there is no city investment in this

11:37:29 at all.

11:37:29 And this was a suggestion about the water meters, and

11:37:32 they are certainly not saying they want free water.

11:37:34 I think what they are saying is they want to be able to

11:37:37 have a water meter so they can buy water from the city.

11:37:40 Is that what we are saying?

11:37:49 >>Catherine Coyle: Just top reiterate.

11:37:51 As far as I know there is no subsidy from the city.

11:37:56 It's a garden private.

11:37:58 You have to come in and apply, pay for the permit, get

11:38:01 it annually, and it's all on you to make sure that it

11:38:05 works properly.

11:38:09 That's it.

11:38:12 >>Thomas Scott: Do we need to take any action to move

11:38:14 forward?

11:38:15 >>Catherine Coyle: I would ask that you transmit it to

11:38:17 the planning commission for consideration in the

11:38:20 January cycle.

11:38:24 >>Thomas Scott: Okay.

11:38:25 >>Mary Mulhern: I would like to hear from the public.

11:38:29 >>Thomas Scott: They will have to wait till we hear

11:38:31 from our next issue.

11:38:32 We may lose a quorum.

11:38:33 Let's hear from the fire department on our next issue.

11:38:41 >>Mary Mulhern: Excuse me, we would like to transmit

11:38:42 today.

11:38:44 >>Thomas Scott: We are running out of time.

11:38:46 It is now almost 20 minutes till 12:00.

11:38:48 We can't hear from the public because we have another

11:38:50 issue or we are going to lose our quorum.

11:38:52 So what I am saying is we have another report that

11:38:56 needs to come before us.

11:38:57 Let's take the report.

11:38:58 Whatever time remains we'll hear from the public.

11:39:02 >>Mary Mulhern: We can't vote if we lose our quorum.

11:39:06 Shelby: The issue is transmittal action would have to

11:39:11 be required today.

11:39:14 >>Mary Mulhern: I'll move to transmit it.

11:39:15 And then I will hear from the public if we don't have a

11:39:19 quorum.

11:39:19 I'll still be here.

11:39:23 Shelby: If I can, council's rules normally would

11:39:25 require we take public comment.

11:39:27 Unanimously you can waive those rules.

11:39:29 Obviously it's just a transmittal.

11:39:31 It doesn't adopt anything today.

11:39:33 So my suggestion, council, we can always expedite

11:39:36 things.

11:39:36 Just very quickly make a motion to waive the rules with

11:39:40 regards to taking action just to transmit.

11:39:43 >>Mary Mulhern: Do you think that's a good precedent to

11:39:45 waive the rules, having a public hearing because it's

11:39:47 convenient for the people, the few of us that are still

11:39:50 here?

11:39:52 >>Thomas Scott: It's not a public hearing, though.

11:39:54 >>Mary Mulhern: Okay, public comment.

11:39:58 Shelby: It would be my recommendation that you take

11:40:01 public comment and you can always limit to the one

11:40:04 minute or whatever council wishes.

11:40:07 >>Mary Mulhern: Give somebody one minute, please.

11:40:11 >>Thomas Scott: If we have one person that wants to

11:40:13 speak.

11:40:13 Yeah what I'm saying is we have another item.

11:40:18 >>Mary Mulhern: But we do want to transmit it so we

11:40:20 need to have a spokesperson.

11:40:25 >>Thomas Scott: Okay, does a spokesperson want to come,

11:40:27 one person, two minutes?

11:40:28 Okay, come on.

11:40:29 Two minutes.

11:40:30 >> Thank you.

11:40:35 Robin Milkowitz.

11:40:38 First of all, we really appreciate all the work that

11:40:43 you have done in putting this together, and Mary as

11:40:45 well.

11:40:45 Some of the things that we disagree with are just, you

11:40:47 know, very small items.

11:40:49 The biggest thing is definitely the size limitation.

11:40:53 This ordinance might be talking about small gardens

11:40:57 that exist now.

11:40:58 But we could potentially be talking about large gardens

11:41:01 later.

11:41:01 And the nonprofit status of community gardens can still

11:41:05 happen in a large format.

11:41:06 They do.

11:41:09 So I think if we are allowed to take anything out that

11:41:13 would be the biggest thing.

11:41:14 The next biggest thing would probably be the

11:41:17 fund-raising.

11:41:18 The fund-raising requirement.

11:41:20 We do a lost things in the garden like pot lucks and

11:41:23 having people come down for dinners.

11:41:26 And we do raise money.

11:41:28 We sell T-shirts.

11:41:29 We sell other items for the garden.

11:41:31 And that's consider fund-raising.

11:41:32 And if we can't do that, that's a little much for us.

11:41:35 And if we were to talk about keeping those

11:41:38 restrictions, then maybe we could possibly change it to

11:41:40 fund-raising events with more than six people and still

11:41:45 have small events all year long.

11:41:51 Two of the things we need to talk about are that

11:41:54 community gardens are really nothing but a benefit for

11:41:57 the immediate community.

11:41:59 So many people that live near us have joined the

11:42:03 garden.

11:42:05 They love it.

11:42:06 They love the idea.

11:42:10 The idea of, you know, a community garden.

11:42:17 Want to make sure the community is involved and

11:42:20 onboard.

11:42:21 It's really important.

11:42:24 I think three of the things that community gardens

11:42:28 actually does is it provides education for people to

11:42:31 eat healthy.

11:42:31 It also provides education for kids.

11:42:34 We have lots of kids that come down and learn how to

11:42:37 grow stuff.

11:42:37 I think that's really, really important, that these

11:42:40 community gardens are providing that you can't find

11:42:42 anywhere.

11:42:43 Parks and rec doesn't have that.

11:42:45 These happen somewhat but you can't get local schools

11:42:47 in my neighborhood to go over to the extension service.

11:42:50 But they can drive down to be my garden.

11:42:53 So it's a great local resource for the school.

11:42:57 But also provides an economical means for people that

11:43:01 can't afford healthy food, you know.

11:43:03 It's really -- we are not talking about keeping

11:43:07 anybody --

11:43:09 (Bell sounds)

11:43:09 Thank you.

11:43:12 >>Thomas Scott: Thank you.

11:43:12 Well, let me just say, Seminole Heights has done an

11:43:15 excellent job.

11:43:16 I was there for a press conference that we support

11:43:21 community gardens.

11:43:22 However, I'm hearing Ms. Coyle saying, you know, she

11:43:26 doesn't know the implications based on this yes or no,

11:43:29 yes or no answer.

11:43:30 So before we enact those kind of changes, she needs to

11:43:33 do some research on them.

11:43:34 I am for moving forward to the planning commission to

11:43:37 get something, because you can always come back and

11:43:40 amend this, change it.

11:43:41 So from day one I said let's get something on the books

11:43:47 and they can come back and make any kind of change that

11:43:50 you need to make.

11:43:51 It's not something that cannot be changed.

11:43:53 >> Right.

11:43:54 Okay.

11:43:58 >>Mary Mulhern: Go ahead.

11:43:59 I'm going to move that we transmit it but I would like

11:44:01 to ask that we strike the acreage limit, and between

11:44:05 the now and the time that comes back.

11:44:11 Ms. Coyle can do research.

11:44:12 We can all do research and we can put that limitation,

11:44:16 add that limitation in once we are satisfied that it

11:44:20 needs to be there and what it should be.

11:44:24 So if we need a little more time, and that's the only

11:44:26 big problem I have with it.

11:44:30 I think everything else we can address and I do

11:44:32 appreciate all the work that Ms. Coyle and Ms. Cole

11:44:37 have done on this, and we'll be working with them.

11:44:41 And I'm sorry it took me so long to get to it.

11:44:44 But that's happens.

11:44:45 So I move that we transmit it to the planning

11:44:48 commission.

11:44:49 And if you can just strike the acreage limit, we can do

11:44:52 the research on that in the meantime before it comes

11:44:55 back.

11:44:57 >>Charlie Miranda: I realize, Mr. Chairman, a lot of

11:44:59 people have done a lot of hard work and spent a lot of

11:45:01 time and when I first heard this concept two or three

11:45:05 years ago, it was about growing something for the poor.

11:45:10 Now I see something in front of me that talks about

11:45:13 having fund-raisers at the event, they say the city

11:45:17 would spend no money for water meters.

11:45:20 Let me say this.

11:45:21 If your water meter in a house is not used for a

11:45:24 certain period of time that water meter is pulled out.

11:45:27 Am I correct?

11:45:29 Yes.

11:45:31 Sometimes when you redo a water line, I've had friends

11:45:34 of mine, not I, but I know of friends of mine who have

11:45:37 bought a house that has been vacant for four years, and

11:45:42 the city has done not a resurfacing but repiping of the

11:45:47 area.

11:45:47 Guess what happened when they bought the house.

11:45:49 They charged them $2400 because of the costs of the new

11:45:55 line that even though they didn't have any benefit of

11:45:57 it forever, and the cost of replacing the water meter.

11:46:01 So I don't know where you are going to find properties,

11:46:03 but there are danger points in these things that no one

11:46:06 has considered.

11:46:07 Who is going to pay that kind of money in case these

11:46:10 meters are out, and in case there's been a new line put

11:46:14 in, and no one lives there?

11:46:15 And it's not going to be me.

11:46:17 I am not going to pass that off to the general public.

11:46:21 I'll tell you that right now.

11:46:22 I'm not against anybody planting anything at their

11:46:25 house in, their lawn, wherever they want.

11:46:27 That's their property.

11:46:28 But when I start talking about a block, now two acres

11:46:34 is a lot of land.

11:46:35 You can produce a lot of property product and you can

11:46:37 sell and make a good living if you know how to do it.

11:46:42 I am not going to sponsor anything -- and I'm against

11:46:48 any regulations for these kinds of things coming,

11:46:51 meaning paying $57,000, paying a consultant, paying an

11:46:55 attorney.

11:46:56 I'm against all that.

11:46:57 But there's got to be somewhere, where the neighbors

11:47:00 have to sign something, and the neighborhood and the

11:47:03 neighborhood associations have to approve something.

11:47:08 What am I doing there?

11:47:11 I don't believe I can tell one neighborhood, listen,

11:47:15 you can't build two houses on one lot, but on that lot

11:47:19 you can put a miniature farm, I guess, because it's an

11:47:25 acre.

11:47:26 And there are properties that are acre or larger but

11:47:30 there's very few only in certain sector of the town.

11:47:34 We are creating something that we -- I always say for

11:47:38 every action there's a reaction.

11:47:40 What's the reaction if you live next -- I don't know.

11:47:43 Maybe they like it.

11:47:44 Maybe they don't like it but no one asked them.

11:47:47 They just drop in at I would say the eleventh hour, but

11:47:52 the eleventh hour is in 30 minutes, drop in and say,

11:47:55 okay.

11:47:57 I can't yes and no.

11:48:01 And the only one in Florida is Tampa.

11:48:05 Tennessee.

11:48:06 Ohio.

11:48:07 California.

11:48:08 Illinois.

11:48:09 Michigan.

11:48:10 And California again.

11:48:12 So what I'm saying is, I'm not prepared to pass this or

11:48:16 go anywhere until I have these answers.

11:48:20 I just don't have an answer for these answers because I

11:48:23 don't know what they are.

11:48:25 >>Mary Mulhern: Let me say this.

11:48:26 I think there is confusion here, because -- let me say

11:48:32 this.

11:48:33 >>Charlie Miranda: I haven't said anything.

11:48:36 >>Mary Mulhern: We don't have an ordinance right now so

11:48:38 strike Tampa off of there.

11:48:39 What that was supposed to show us is how other cities

11:48:42 who have community gardens, how they regulated it.

11:48:46 And for us to compare.

11:48:48 So that's what we should be looking at.

11:48:51 And the reason that they have to do fund-raising is

11:48:54 because they do have to pay for things like water

11:48:56 meters.

11:48:56 There is no -- the whole reason we are doing this is

11:49:00 because there is no investment of taxpayer dollars.

11:49:04 This is a way to help neighborhoods and communities

11:49:07 grow food or flowers, make it a more beautiful place,

11:49:12 make it a safer place, the benefits of it are huge.

11:49:15 And I also have to say we have a bunch of community

11:49:18 gardens now in the last couple of years in the city of

11:49:21 Tampa, and there have been no -- we don't have arrest

11:49:25 reports, we don't have code enforcement violations, we

11:49:28 have had no problems.

11:49:29 So if we do run into problems, then we fix it and

11:49:32 that's when we come back and we can write stricter

11:49:35 regulations.

11:49:36 I don't think there's anything to worry about,

11:49:38 transmitting this to the planning commission.

11:49:40 We are not adopting anything.

11:49:42 It's going to come back for adoption.

11:49:44 And I think -- hopefully Ms. Coyle's work that she's

11:49:48 done on this, she would love to see it move forward.

11:49:56 >>Thomas Scott: The problem we have today is Mr.

11:49:58 Miranda is not comfortable with the language of the

11:50:00 acreage and you are moving that in your motion.

11:50:03 Listen, folk, you are not going to get anything passed

11:50:06 today in a few minutes.

11:50:07 I can tell you.

11:50:08 So my suggestion is, Ms. Coyle has worked out some

11:50:12 language.

11:50:12 I think, council, we need to move the language that

11:50:16 she's provided, that it go to the planning commission

11:50:18 and it comes back, make those changes because we have

11:50:20 too many unanswered questions here today.

11:50:23 >>Mary Mulhern: Okay, that's fine.

11:50:25 >>Thomas Scott: I think Ms. Coyle is saying, okay,

11:50:27 trust me, let's do this, and then when it comes back,

11:50:32 that's the opportunity for council to come back, and,

11:50:34 you know, correct these things.

11:50:37 Because otherwise, I can count.

11:50:38 And you are not going to have the votes.

11:50:43 Of four people.

11:50:44 >>Mary Mulhern: That's fine.

11:50:45 I move of that we transmit the proposed ordinance to

11:50:50 the planning commission.

11:50:53 >>Thomas Scott: It's not an ordinance.

11:50:55 >>Mary Mulhern: Proposed text amendment.

11:50:56 Sorry.

11:50:58 >>Charlie Miranda: Mr. Chairman, I am going to second

11:50:59 that with many, many reservations, because I guarantee

11:51:02 you, if it comes back, and I have to vote on it, and

11:51:05 these questions that I pose today are not answered, I

11:51:07 am going to vote against my own second, which is

11:51:11 perfectly legal.

11:51:12 There's got to be a neighborhood component.

11:51:14 The neighbors must sign on.

11:51:16 I don't think I have the right to do anything.

11:51:20 I don't want to plant a palm tree garden next to it.

11:51:23 Not saying it's depending to happen because there's

11:51:25 nobody that plants palm trees on only an acre.

11:51:28 You have to have many, many acres to do that.

11:51:30 But this is a business.

11:51:31 I don't care anyway you look at it.

11:51:33 It is a business.

11:51:35 And I'm willing to gob forward and I'm not ready to

11:51:40 take the last step and go down the cliff.

11:51:45 >>Thomas Scott: Just moving it forward and come back.

11:51:47 We can make those changes.

11:51:50 And put in speed bumps.

11:51:53 I know at least in the county you had to have about 51%

11:51:56 of the neighborhood that sign off on that.

11:51:59 That could be something that you can put in here in the

11:52:02 future when this comes back, something along those

11:52:04 lines.

11:52:05 Councilwoman Mulhern.

11:52:08 >>Gwen Miller: Who purchased the equipment, the seed,

11:52:12 what you do to grow the plants?

11:52:13 Who pays for that?

11:52:16 >>Catherine Coyle: The people that run the community

11:52:18 garden are responsible to purchase all their own

11:52:21 equipment, plant the garden, harvest it, keep it clean,

11:52:24 all the maintenance responsibilities, everything that

11:52:26 has to do with the community garden because it's a

11:52:29 private entity is the responsibility falls on the

11:52:31 community gardening group.

11:52:35 >>Gwen Miller: Not notifying the neighbor neighbors and

11:52:39 that's not going to be in there, right?

11:52:45 >>Catherine Coyle: As it sits right now, that's

11:52:47 correct.

11:52:48 >>Gwen Miller: I am not comfortable with that because I

11:52:49 think you need to notify the neighborhood.

11:52:52 >>Catherine Coyle: What I would hate to happen is this

11:52:54 regulation get bogged down because of that issue.

11:52:56 I think it's a process question and we can potentially

11:52:58 answer that question when it comes back.

11:53:01 >>Thomas Scott: And that's what we have been arguing

11:53:03 for the last 45 minutes is that you are really not

11:53:05 approving the ordinance or anything today.

11:53:07 You are just moving it.

11:53:08 When it comes back, you can put all that language in

11:53:11 there.

11:53:11 You can work on this.

11:53:14 If we don't move it forward today, it will be the next

11:53:17 cycle before you can do that.

11:53:18 And when is that?

11:53:21 >>Catherine Coyle: The July cycle.

11:53:25 >>Charlie Miranda: They say 20-horsepower engines.

11:53:28 That sounds great when compared to an automobile

11:53:30 engine.

11:53:31 That's a lot more horsepower.

11:53:33 350 or whatever.

11:53:35 A little Cushman eagle has an 8.5-horsepower engine

11:53:39 that at 75 miles per hour makes a lot of noise.

11:53:42 A 12.5-horsepower Cushman makes more noise.

11:53:46 A 20-horsepower engine can pull a semi if it had to.

11:53:51 So the noise barrier has not been included in here.

11:53:55 And you don't have to have two acres.

11:53:57 A lot of these are going to be a lot, plot of land,

11:54:00 something much less than two acres.

11:54:02 So what I'm saying is these are the things that are

11:54:04 going to be addressed when it comes back to make these

11:54:08 things work.

11:54:09 So I'm letting the whole public know now that I am not

11:54:13 going to support something that makes noise.

11:54:16 The same thing they do in Ybor City or Channelside.

11:54:19 I want to get away before the problem starts.

11:54:22 I'm not against them.

11:54:23 And I want to make sure that they do what they have top

11:54:25 do, cross the TT's and dot the I's and that contained

11:54:32 of stuff, because somebody is going to get upset.

11:54:36 I don't care if it's those streets, somebody is not

11:54:39 going to like them.

11:54:39 So I want to make sure that all these things are

11:54:42 covered on the basis of what we have the public

11:54:44 hearing.

11:54:45 That's all, Mr. Chairman.

11:54:49 >>Thomas Scott: That's a motion.

11:54:50 Moved and seconded.

11:54:51 All in favor?

11:54:52 Opposes?

11:54:55 >>Gwen Miller: Nay.

11:54:58 >>Catherine Coyle: I would say the only other

11:55:00 compromise that we might have, given the public

11:55:05 outreach of the city in creating this regulation is, as

11:55:09 Ms. Mulhern said, a lot of contact from the east Tampa

11:55:12 area to actually create these things.

11:55:14 And, of course, there is one in Seminole Heights now.

11:55:17 So this would legitimize that one once they received

11:55:20 their permit.

11:55:21 We could also take a scaled-back approach, allow this

11:55:25 within those two overlay districts only, and then if it

11:55:28 worked, as a test run, we advantage the rest of the

11:55:34 city.

11:55:35 That's a compromise approach that I could write it in,

11:55:38 only allowed in those two areas of the city for now.

11:55:45 >>Mary Mulhern: Can I please ask a question of Mrs.

11:55:47 Miller?

11:55:48 If we could transmit this with direction to legal to

11:55:51 find -- because I did bring the same thing up when we

11:55:56 talked about this about public notice and about getting

11:55:58 neighborhood involvement, direction to legal to find as

11:56:03 chairman Scott suggested, there are ways that the

11:56:05 county has done this.

11:56:06 So there is the neighborhood approval and consent

11:56:10 before you can do it.

11:56:11 So Julia, are there some things that we can veg

11:56:15 investigate when this comes back?

11:56:16 >> Julia Cole: I'm happy to have review legally

11:56:21 whether or not we can review through the process some

11:56:24 kind of notification that has legal meaning to it.

11:56:26 And I can speak with Ms. Coyle a little further about

11:56:29 that, if you want to go ahead and transmit this, the

11:56:32 procedural portions of it.

11:56:33 I would have to take it separately.

11:56:37 But procedural issues are not something the planning

11:56:40 commission has jurisdiction over.

11:56:43 >>Gwen Miller: By changing the vote you promise --

11:56:45 >> I will look into it and give my best legal advice as

11:56:48 to what we can do to go ahead and add some notification

11:56:52 provision in here without undermining the legitimacy of

11:56:55 the decision-making process.

11:56:57 >>Gwen Miller: I'll change my vote and let it be

11:56:59 transmitted.

11:57:02 >>Mary Mulhern: Thank you.

11:57:08 I move to trains change this to the planning commission

11:57:12 as text amendment.

11:57:16 >>Thomas Scott: Moved and seconded.

11:57:18 All in favor?

11:57:19 Opposes?

11:57:19 >>MARY MULHERN:And make a motion for legal to come back

11:57:21 with provisions for a public notice requirement when we

11:57:25 adopt the ordinance.

11:57:29 >>Thomas Scott: Moved and seconded.

11:57:30 All in favor say Aye.

11:57:32 Opposes?

11:57:33 Okay.

11:57:33 Let's hear from the fire chief.

11:57:37 Tom Forward is here to give us a report on what is in

11:57:46 place to address the emergency situation should the oil

11:57:50 spill affect the city of Tampa and our beaches, our

11:57:55 shores.

11:57:56 Yes, sir.

11:57:58 >>> Good morning.

11:57:59 Tom Forward, acting fire chief, fire rescue, here to

11:58:05 discuss your questions concerning the provisions and

11:58:09 the protections that the city of Tampa has in place

11:58:12 with respect to the Gulf oil spill.

11:58:15 As you know, our present state, our bay area and coast

11:58:23 lane there's no imminent immediate peril with the

11:58:28 catastrophic breech out there.

11:58:29 We have been in constant collaboration, office of

11:58:33 emergency management with the county emergency

11:58:35 operations center and the state emergency operations

11:58:37 center with respect to that incident.

11:58:39 And again at this time we don't have any significant

11:58:42 danger that's being communicated with respect to our

11:58:47 shoreline.

11:58:47 So we have not spent any of our safety or any of our

11:58:56 emergency response conditions other than our normal

11:58:58 operating procedure with respect to managing this.

11:59:03 As you know it's already been managed by the BP,

11:59:06 British petroleum oil company, in connection with the

11:59:11 U.S. Coast Guard and the other FEMA person at this

11:59:16 time.

11:59:23 >>Thomas Scott: Any questions?

11:59:24 Yes.

11:59:25 >>Mary Mulhern: I want to welcome -- congratulations.

11:59:27 Thanks for pulling this together for us.

11:59:29 I just wanted to say that I'm on the regional planning

11:59:34 council.

11:59:34 And we had a discussion with representatives from all

11:59:38 the cities and counties in the four-county area, and

11:59:43 unlike some other jurisdictions, the city of Tampa,

11:59:51 this council passed a resolution back in October of

11:59:57 last year asking the state not to allow more drilling.

12:00:02 So I think we need to have credit for having that

12:00:08 foresight but I want to say something that we can think

12:00:11 about here is the county did a letter after the oil

12:00:15 spill to Congress and to the state legislature, the

12:00:21 governor, and I think the president saying, you know,

12:00:26 discouraging them from allowing any more new drilling.

12:00:30 What we found out on the regional planning council is

12:00:33 we had a policy in place that talked about 100 miles

12:00:38 was the distance, and we are going to change that to

12:00:43 the distance that's in I think the federal regulation

12:00:45 that's being proposed, or I think that is being

12:00:48 proposed.

12:00:49 So we could think about doing that encouragement.

12:00:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I just want to thank governor Crist

12:00:56 for getting his committee together to ask BP to pay at

12:01:04 least 35 million because of the tourism the state

12:01:08 depends on and we are being hurt.

12:01:10 I always say something man made is going to break.

12:01:12 And this is evident that it was man made and it broke.

12:01:16 And that these people that wanted oil drilling in the

12:01:21 Gulf of Mexico, the last time I saw was in the Ocala

12:01:26 forest hiding under a rock, because they don't seem to

12:01:30 understand that we believe taxation limits we have.

12:01:37 But we also are a tourist state.

12:01:39 And this is our live hood and it's affecting not only

12:01:45 the fishermen but all the industries -- hotels, motels,

12:01:49 food, anyone that lives in Florida, you have an

12:01:54 indirect feeling to this.

12:01:57 Maybe you don't realize it.

12:02:00 But because if somebody doesn't come in and the taxes

12:02:02 are not created then the taxes really fall own, and you

12:02:05 haven't done anything wrong.

12:02:06 So I commend the governor, and I think he's going to

12:02:10 call a special session from what I read in the

12:02:13 newspapers and see on television to maybe ban oil

12:02:17 drilling in the Gulf of Mexico.

12:02:21 You know, we live too long with too much, and it's

12:02:24 about time we start living with a little less.

12:02:27 And I commend them for doing what he's doing.

12:02:29 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

12:02:33 >>Thomas Scott: Let me just thank you for the report

12:02:34 that we have here, because it's very important for us

12:02:37 to understand what is happening, and specific relative

12:02:44 to what's going on, the oil spill and all of the

12:02:47 economic impact, including, you know, the seafood

12:02:51 industry and all of that is being impacted by this

12:02:56 spill.

12:02:57 It's good to know that we have something in place, and

12:03:00 that we are working to make sure should any kind of

12:03:04 catastrophe like that get close to Tampa, but we are

12:03:09 not in danger at the moment.

12:03:11 And so hopefully as we move forward and continue to

12:03:14 monitor this, and your staff and continue to work with

12:03:18 the EOC.

12:03:20 Okay.

12:03:21 Any other questions?

12:03:22 Any other comments on that?

12:03:25 >>Gwen Miller: Thank you for coming.

12:03:28 >>Thomas Scott: Thank you very much for that.

12:03:29 We have an item.

12:03:31 >> Motion to receive and file.

12:03:36 >> So moved.

12:03:36 >> Second.

12:03:40 >>Gwen Miller: You want to give a commendation for

Mother Thelma Louise Williams Pleasant,

12:03:44 who is going to be 100 years old on June

12:03:46 8th, and I will be taking this commendation to her.

12:03:50 >> Moved and seconded.

12:03:51 All in favor?

12:03:52 Opposes?

12:03:52 Anything else to come before us?

12:03:55 >>Mary Mulhern: I have one item that I need to bring

12:03:57 up.

12:03:58 We voted on days for the budget workshop last week and

12:04:03 it turns out pony wise is not going to be here on the

12:04:06 day we picked which is June 10th.

12:04:08 So I would like to propose as an alternate June

12:04:11 17th at 1:30.

12:04:14 That's day where we have a night meeting.

12:04:17 But it's a Thursday.

12:04:22 There's that, or it looks like we are going to have to

12:04:25 have it on a date other than Thursday.

12:04:27 The other date she recommended was June 22nd on a

12:04:31 Tuesday at 10 a.m.

12:04:32 And I think we have in the past done this on days that

12:04:37 were not council days.

12:04:38 So if that would be better.

12:04:41 June 22nd, Tuesday, 10 a.m.

12:04:45 >>Thomas Scott: Moved and seconded.

12:04:46 All in favor say Aye.

12:04:48 Opposes?

12:04:48 Okay.

12:04:49 June 22nd it is.

12:04:50 Yes?

12:04:50 >> Shelby: For purposes of the record tonight, a

12:04:55 reminder to people who may be intending to attend city

12:04:59 council tonight, that the evening session beginning at

12:05:02 501 on Thursday, May 13th, 2010, has been canceled.

12:05:06 The hearings that have been scheduled for tonight have

12:05:08 been rescheduled and shall be heard by the Tampa City

12:05:11 Council at 6 p.m. on Thursday, May 27th, 2010, in

12:05:17 city council chambers here at 315 East Kennedy

12:05:19 Boulevard.

12:05:20 Thank you.

12:05:23 >>Thomas Scott: Also the public hearing tonight on

12:05:27 Sligh for the transportation referendum.

12:05:29 We want to encourage those members of the public to

12:05:32 please attend that and let their voices be heard.

12:05:34 Okay.

12:05:35 That's tonight at 6 p.m. at the all people center on

12:05:39 Sligh Avenue.

12:05:40 Okay.

12:05:41 With that we stand adjourned.

12:05:42 Thank you.

12:05:45 (The meeting adjourned at 12:06 a.m.)



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