TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, May 27, 2010
6:00 p.m. Session
The following represents an unedited version of
realtime captioning which should neither be relied upon
for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
The original of this file was produced in all capital
letters and any variation thereto may be a result of
third party edits and software compatibility issues.
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.
>> [ Roll Call ]
18:04:37 >>GWEN MILLER: We have one committee report we need to
18:04:40 do, in finance.
18:04:41 Anyone in the public like to speak on item number one?
18:04:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Madam Chair, I move the resolution
18:04:49 confirming Thomas Forward as the fire chief, head of
18:04:53 the Tampa Fire Department of the City of Tampa.
18:04:56 We are honored to have him.
18:04:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Have a motion and a second, all in favor
18:05:00 of the motion say aye.
18:05:02 Mr. Forward, would you please stand and let them be
18:05:05 recognized that we have just approved you.
18:05:07 [ Applause ]
18:05:20 >> Thank you Council, and Madam Chair.
18:05:24 And Council chairman, Tom forward, your new fire rescue
18:05:30 I'm both honored and humbled that you have, I have been
18:05:33 chosen, you have appointed me as your new fire chief of
18:05:36 the City of Tampa.
18:05:37 And it is my Endeavour to uphold the fine organization
18:05:41 that Tampa fire is, and what you have become accustomed
18:05:45 and what this community has been accustomed to, to
18:05:48 having served.
18:05:48 And I give you my, my -- I'll give you my humble, my
18:05:54 position that I will absolutely uphold this in the
18:05:56 finest tradition that you have become accustomed to.
18:05:59 Thank you again.
18:06:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you for being our chief.
18:06:02 We'd like to put on the record now that you're going to
18:06:06 be sworn in on Tuesday, June 1st in the mayor of's
18:06:11 conference room.
18:06:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You have your wife here, your children.
18:06:17 >> If my lovely wife will come up, Cynthia forward.
18:06:21 [ Applause ]
18:06:25 >> And also counsel, I have my -- Council, my entire
18:06:31 grace Mary family.
18:06:32 If they'll please stand.
18:06:36 [ Applause ]
18:06:37 >> My very close friend, Mr. Marvin Knight.
18:06:40 Marvin will stand.
18:06:43 Again, we're just humbled and I'm just honored to serve
18:06:46 such a fine community and have such support from a
18:06:49 great community and from our Council.
18:06:51 Thank you.
18:06:53 >>GWEN MILLER: You are no more honored than we are.
18:06:56 We are very honored.
18:06:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Please tell them all to stay, we
18:07:00 don't want to lose half the audience.
18:07:02 [ Laughter ]
18:07:03 >> Thank you again.
18:07:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Congratulations.
18:07:07 We are very proud, very honored, the mayor selected you
18:07:10 and recommended the approval by Council.
18:07:12 So we do that wholeheartedly and without any
18:07:16 We have no doubt that you will serve this community and
18:07:17 the city well.
18:07:19 >> Thanks again, chairman.
18:07:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thanks and also to your church family.
18:07:23 Thank you.
18:07:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And the real boss, your wife.
18:07:27 [ Laughter ]
18:07:30 >> Thanks again.
18:07:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
18:07:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Chairman, I move to open the items
18:07:40 not continued for public hearing.
18:08:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, you want to clean up the agenda?
18:08:25 >> If I, Mr. Chairman, did you want to do that first or
18:08:28 do you want to make the motion to open, public
18:08:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Maybe some of these are coming out.
18:08:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We'll take action on.
18:08:38 >> Good evening, Council, Abbye Feeley, Land
18:08:40 Development Coordination.
18:08:41 All items on your agenda this evening are moving
18:08:45 So we don't have anything to clear up and we're ready
18:08:47 to go.
18:08:49 >>GWEN MILLER: You sure?
18:08:50 >> Yes, ma'am.
18:08:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Couple items will be open, 3, 4, 5,
18:08:54 6, 7, and 8 is a continued public hearing.
18:08:58 And so is 2.
18:09:02 >> Second.
18:09:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
18:09:04 All in favor signify by saying aye.
18:09:08 >> Mr. Chairman, I ask that all written communications
18:09:10 relative to today's hearing, which have been available
18:09:12 for public inspection in City Council's office be
18:09:14 received and filed into the record at this time.
18:09:17 >> So moved.
18:09:17 >> Second.
18:09:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.
18:09:21 >> Thank you.
18:09:21 Secondly, if any members of City Council have had any
18:09:24 verbal communication with any petitioner, his or her
18:09:27 representative, or any member of the public in
18:09:30 connection with any of today's hearings, that member of
18:09:30 the public should prior to action disclose the person
18:09:32 or persons, group or entity with whom the verbal
18:09:37 communication occurred and the substance of that verbal
18:09:40 Finally, ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Chairman, I believe
18:09:42 you're going to ask the witnesses to be sworn.
18:09:44 Please make sure if you're going to be speaking, you
18:09:46 have signed in outside so the clerk does have your name
18:09:49 and that you are sworn in for the record.
18:09:51 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
18:09:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, if you're going to be speaking
18:09:56 tonight, please stand to be sworn at this time.
18:09:58 If you're going to be speaking to Council, please stand
18:10:00 and be sworn.
18:10:04 [Oath administered by Clerk]
18:10:26 >> Good evening Council, Abbye Feeley, Land Development
18:10:30 Item number 2 is a request for special use, place of
18:10:34 religious assembly, located 4,003, 4,015, 4,010 short
18:10:42 30th street and 2916 east Martin Luther King, Jr.
18:10:46 This is a special use that was previously done not too
18:10:52 long ago, maybe about 12 to 18 months ago.
18:10:55 For special use.
18:10:57 I will defer to Mr. Garcia with the Planning Commission
18:11:02 and I will come back and give you a presentation.
18:11:07 >> Good evening, members of Council, Tony Garcia,
18:11:12 Planning Commission staff.
18:11:13 I have been sworn in.
18:11:14 Very briefly, let me give you an overview with the big
18:11:17 picture as it relates to this particular project.
18:11:19 The project is located within your central Tampa
18:11:22 planning district located on your vision planning map
18:11:25 for the City of Tampa.
18:11:27 It's specifically located within East Tampa urban
18:11:30 village, also your CRA, one of your largest CRA for the
18:11:33 City of Tampa.
18:11:34 The request, as Miss Feeley has already stated to you,
18:11:38 is for the expansion of an existing place of worship.
18:11:42 I'll go ahead and show you -- upside down.
18:11:48 Right side up.
18:11:49 The location is just north of east Martin Luther King.
18:11:54 And just east of north 29th street.
18:11:57 It currently exists as a place of assembly.
18:12:02 There's some modifications that will be done to some
18:12:04 adjacent properties to allow the continued use and
18:12:06 operation of this particular place of worship, which
18:12:09 has served the community and become a fabric of the
18:12:13 community quite a long period of time.
18:12:15 Let you show you the future land use categories you
18:12:18 have several.
18:12:19 Here's the R 35 land use category.
18:12:22 Community commercial category, along Dr. Martin Luther
18:12:24 King, Jr. Boulevard.
18:12:26 And your residential 10 categories, community mixed use
18:12:30 35, which allows CG uses.
18:12:33 Those are pretty much all the categories in this
18:12:35 particular area.
18:12:35 Planning Commission staff found the proposed request
18:12:38 consistent with the comprehensive plan.
18:12:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Mr. Garcia.
18:12:46 >> Thank you, sir.
18:12:58 >> Abbye Feeley, land development.
18:13:00 As Mr. Garcia stated, this is an existing place of
18:13:03 religious assembly.
18:13:04 It was before you just a short while ago.
18:13:06 To put a fellowship building here.
18:13:09 And I have some pictures that has been under
18:13:12 What's before you tonight is a proposed expansion on
18:13:15 this existing structure here.
18:13:17 And a parking lot in this area here, to provide
18:13:23 >> As Mr. Garcia said, Martin Luther King to the south,
18:13:31 30th runs, short 30th runs in between.
18:13:34 The CSX railroad, which borders on the east side and
18:13:38 Ida Street to the north.
18:13:39 Here's a picture of the existing building from short
18:13:46 30th, looking west.
18:13:48 This is from the north, looking south.
18:13:51 This is a view looking south, where that expansion is
18:13:56 going to take place.
18:13:58 Also as you can see on your site plan drive in here and
18:14:01 have handicapped parking in the front there.
18:14:04 This is the structure to the west.
18:14:08 This is north on Ida.
18:14:12 This is immediately north on Ida right adjacent to the
18:14:19 That's the CSX portion.
18:14:24 Here's a picture of the structure, built in conjunction
18:14:33 with I believe USF.
18:14:34 Still under construction.
18:14:36 This is looking north from MLK at the portion that will
18:14:39 be the parking area.
18:14:40 There will not be an access on MLK.
18:14:45 That access will take place just to the south of that
18:14:47 existing blue building.
18:14:49 This is the property to the east.
18:14:52 On MLK, adjacent to the parking area.
18:14:56 And one more view of that.
18:15:00 It's just vacant land right now, where that parking
18:15:03 area is going to be.
18:15:04 We have been working with the petitioner and I provided
18:15:09 you with a revision sheet.
18:15:11 They've had some changes in their engineers.
18:15:13 And we have been trying to help them get this case
18:15:16 before you so they he can move forward on their
18:15:19 proposed addition.
18:15:20 As you'll see, there are series of waivers.
18:15:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We didn't get the revision sheet.
18:15:30 >> There we go.
18:15:31 A number of waivers need to be amended, in order to
18:15:35 address buffers.
18:15:37 They're predominately buffer issues.
18:15:41 I can go through those.
18:15:42 The first is to reduce the required buffer from ten
18:15:44 feet to five feet along the west, on the western
18:15:47 What I did was I broke it down into a western parcel
18:15:50 and an eastern parcel.
18:15:51 And then that parking parcel to try to break this up,
18:15:55 because it is quite a lot.
18:15:56 There are those -- there's 14 waivers in total.
18:15:59 And several of them need to be amended in between first
18:16:03 and second reading.
18:16:04 I think I've gone -- the current place of assembly
18:16:13 includes 1700 square foot building and a 2100 square
18:16:17 foot fellowship hall that was recently done under VO
18:16:23 The setbacks are 23.9 feet, south 15 feet, east
18:16:26 20.3 feet and west, 12 feet for the eastern parcel and
18:16:31 then north 40 feet, south six feet, east 22.75 feet and
18:16:35 west 20.2 feet for the western parcel.
18:16:38 Use does require 45 spaces.
18:16:40 14 spaces are being provided and a waiver is being
18:16:43 requested for the deficit.
18:16:45 Let me quickly go through the staff findings.
18:16:48 On the Land Development Coordination, in the staff
18:16:50 report, most of them are technical in nature.
18:16:52 We need them to add the waivers as exactly shown in my
18:16:55 staff report.
18:16:57 In between first and second reading.
18:16:58 Modify the building square footage.
18:17:00 Modify the northern set back.
18:17:05 Modify the site data to show the parking at 14 spaces.
18:17:10 Modify the FAR to point 28.
18:17:13 And modify the proposed building to contain fellowship
18:17:17 Solid waste, if you'll look on your site plan real
18:17:22 quick, on that western parcel, they right now have the
18:17:25 solid waste receptacles in the front yard, of the
18:17:28 building with the proposed addition.
18:17:29 We don't typically do that, so we are asking they shift
18:17:33 that to the south and everything in the report reflects
18:17:35 that being shifted.
18:17:36 There's adequate space there to accommodate that.
18:17:39 Transportation also requires that a sidewalk be shown
18:17:43 along Ida.
18:17:44 So we can do that.
18:17:45 All these are technical in nature, can be done in
18:17:48 between first and second reading and staff will work
18:17:50 with the petitioner to ensure that gets done.
18:17:56 >> Petitioner?
18:18:10 >> Good afternoon, my name is Luis Rosado, professional
18:18:15 >> My name is Allen Taylor, Allen Taylor consultant.
18:18:22 >> Do you have anything you wanted to add?
18:18:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anything else you want to add to the
18:18:27 >> Not really.
18:18:28 >> We have been working with them to try to get this
18:18:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do you agree to all the changes that
18:18:33 have been recommended on here?
18:18:34 >> Yes, that's no problem.
18:18:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do you want your petition to be
18:18:38 >> Yes.
18:18:38 Of course.
18:18:39 [ Laughter ]
18:18:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Should tell us you want that, pretty
18:18:45 >> We want our petition to be approved.
18:18:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone in opposition to this petition
18:18:51 Anyone here in opposition?
18:18:54 >> Move to close.
18:18:54 >> Second.
18:18:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
18:18:56 Just -- anyone who's in the gray area, not sure?
18:19:03 All right then.
18:19:06 >> Republican or Democrat?
18:19:07 [ Laughter ]
18:19:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion closed.
18:19:09 All in favor signify by saying aye.
18:19:12 Mr. Miranda?
18:19:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you Mr. Chairman.
18:19:16 Move an ordinance for first reading which contains a,
18:19:20 also with the case number V09-403, that's 4003, 4005,
18:19:24 4007, 4010 Short 30th Street, 2916 east Martin Luther
18:19:31 King Boulevard, that contains Land Development
18:19:35 Coordination request for solid waste and transportation
18:19:42 Shall be fixed between first and second reading,
18:19:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move ordinance requesting special as
18:19:50 special religious assembly as RS-50 residential
18:19:53 single-family district in the general vicinity of 4003,
18:19:57 4005, 4007 and 4010 Short 30th Street and 2916 east
18:20:03 Martin Luther King, Jr. Boulevard in the City of Tampa,
18:20:05 Florida, more particularly scribed in section one
18:20:07 thereof, providing an effective date.
18:20:10 >> Been moved and second.
18:20:11 All in favor signify by saying aye.
18:20:13 0 opposes?
18:20:15 >> Motion carried with Mulhern being absent.
18:20:18 Second reading and adoption will be June 24 at
18:20:20 9:35 a.m.
18:20:22 -- 9:30 a.m.
18:20:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
18:20:33 Number 3?
18:20:35 >> Thank you.
18:20:35 Item three?
18:20:57 >> Abbye Feeley, land development coordination.
18:20:59 Council, item three on your agenda this evening is
18:21:02 another special use request.
18:21:05 V10-131 is located at 4509 North Armenia Avenue.
18:21:10 This is a special use request for medical office in an
18:21:14 RO-1 district.
18:21:16 Let me not say the too much and let Mr. Garcia get up
18:21:21 I'm not used to that format.
18:21:25 >>TONY GARCIA: Good evening again, members of the
18:21:38 Council, Tony Garcia, Planning Commission staff, I have
18:21:40 been sworn.
18:21:41 The subject site is located in the central Tampa
18:21:48 planning district, which is one of our districts of
18:21:51 growth according to your vision map and comprehensive
18:21:54 It is, the site is located in the, in the general area
18:22:02 of the Wellswood neighborhood association.
18:22:04 It's right off of Wishart, as you can see by the
18:22:07 Here's Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Boulevard.
18:22:11 Still sticking with this particular Boulevard, just a
18:22:13 little bit farther to the west.
18:22:15 To give you a better context, St. Joseph's hospital is
18:22:20 about, about a mile to the west.
18:22:23 And there are a variety of, I'll zoom in a little bit
18:22:26 for you over here, so you can see some of the existing
18:22:28 uses along this particular part of North Armenia.
18:22:31 There are a variety of professional office uses, as you
18:22:34 can see, along North Armenia.
18:22:37 Here's the subject site.
18:22:38 Which is to be for a redeveloped for a medical office,
18:22:42 two story medical office.
18:22:44 There are existing already on North Armenia a variety
18:22:46 of medical offices and small scale clinics.
18:22:51 All the way up to Hillsborough avenue.
18:22:54 That's about a mile to the north.
18:22:55 And also as I said, some professional office, some
18:23:00 attorneys offices are around here and some other
18:23:02 professional offices, some existing, here's a
18:23:04 pediatrician's office, a surgeon's office, a variety of
18:23:08 different medical uses in the area.
18:23:09 This is pretty consistent with the variety of uses to.
18:23:12 Show you exactly what the underlying future land use
18:23:15 categories are that are reflective of this use,
18:23:18 community mixed use 35 along Armenia avenue which
18:23:22 allows professional offices as well as general
18:23:25 commercial uses.
18:23:26 Here's the Westwood neighborhood to the east over here,
18:23:30 predominantly residential and single-family attached
18:23:34 Residential 20, residential 35 and again residential
18:23:38 family uses over here on the west side of Armenia.
18:23:40 Planning Commission staff found the proposed request
18:23:42 consistent with the comprehensive plan.
18:23:51 >> Abbye Feeley, land defendant.
18:23:54 Council, before you this evening is for a 2,073 square
18:24:00 foot medical office building.
18:24:03 This is a special use in the RO-1, the special use
18:24:06 requires a lot size of 10,000 square feet.
18:24:08 The lot does have 14,386 square feet.
18:24:12 The building setbacks are north 17 and a half, west
18:24:15 49 feet four inches.
18:24:18 East 30 feet six inches and south, 47 feet two inches.
18:24:22 There are three waivers that are being requested.
18:24:24 One, to reduce the drive aisle width from 26 feet to
18:24:30 19 feet.
18:24:31 The second to reduce drive aisle wide N from 26 feet to
18:24:36 22 feet.
18:24:36 And last reduce the required buffer along the east to
18:24:40 four feet two inches with a six foot wood fence.
18:24:43 Let me go ahead and show you some pictures of the site.
18:24:46 The zoning atlas and an aerial.
18:24:48 As Tony mentioned, there is a mix of uses along this
18:24:54 segment of Armenia north of MLK.
18:24:57 You can see on the zoning atlas you have a series of
18:25:00 commercial general, PD, CG.
18:25:04 -- I'm sorry, RO 1, all in this area here, starting
18:25:09 from, working your way down, CG here.
18:25:14 Across the streets a series of RO-1, CG, and CN, so,
18:25:19 multitude of uses with mixed types of offices there.
18:25:23 Go ahead and show you the aerial again.
18:25:28 Armenia to the west.
18:25:30 Wishart place or MLK further to the south.
18:25:34 This is the existing structure that's on the site
18:25:39 This is going to be demolished and a new structure is
18:25:46 going to be constructed in this area.
18:25:47 To the south, the one-story.
18:25:56 Immediately to the north, another one-story office.
18:25:59 Across the street, SDI Diagnostic, which is in your
18:26:06 development two story.
18:26:08 Immediately across Armenia to the west.
18:26:17 Land Development Coordination -- sorry, the Development
18:26:20 Review Committee found this application currently
18:26:24 However, if the revisions are made in between first and
18:26:26 second reading, it would be found consistent.
18:26:30 I believe with the exception of transportation, who is
18:26:33 objecting to the 19-foot drive aisle.
18:26:36 In relation to Land Development Coordination, we had a
18:26:41 couple waivers that needed to be rewritten.
18:26:43 And just you some minor changes on the site plan.
18:26:46 Transportation also needed some, in addition to the
18:26:50 drive aisle objection, needed the turf paver changed to
18:26:54 turf block.
18:26:55 And they needed 12-inch stop bar shown.
18:26:57 And they needed a raised curb for the proposed
18:27:00 Transportation staff is here, as well as Land
18:27:03 Development Coordination should you have any questions.
18:27:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
18:27:14 >> Good evening, Council.
18:27:15 My name is Jorge Ramos.
18:27:17 I have been sworn in.
18:27:18 275 Bayshore.
18:27:22 I'm here today as the agent for Miss Mercedes Sumulong,
18:27:26 owner of the property located at 4509 North Armenia
18:27:30 The property is approximately point 33 acres in the
18:27:34 zoning, as already been mentioned, is RO-1, consistent
18:27:37 with all the medical offices in the area.
18:27:39 Abutting the property to the north and south as Abbye
18:27:42 Feeley just showed, are medical offices.
18:27:45 For all the areas predominantly use as medical.
18:27:48 We are here today to respectfully request that the use
18:27:52 of the property be changed from detached house to
18:27:54 medical office.
18:27:55 If approved, we are proposing to construct a new
18:28:00 We are working with our architects to ensure that the
18:28:04 building is within character and the facade will blend
18:28:08 in well with the surrounding neighborhood.
18:28:10 We believe that the new building and with the proposed
18:28:13 landscaping will enhance the neighborhood.
18:28:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here in objection to this
18:28:18 Anyone here in objection to this petition?
18:28:25 >> Thank you, sir.
18:28:26 I just had a question, transportation.
18:28:30 If you could just show us where the -- this is a very
18:28:34 busy site plan.
18:28:35 Just show us on the site plan where the drive aisle is
18:28:38 that you object to and why you object.
18:28:41 >> Lenroy Martin, transportation.
18:28:57 The drive aisle is for the spaces to the west -- drive
18:29:02 aisle is for the spaces to the west, 19 feet.
18:29:04 There are a couple 88 spaces and some nine by 18 spaces
18:29:07 that require 26-foot backup.
18:29:11 We do acknowledge that the building, because of the
18:29:13 constraints of the pond to the east, that it will not
18:29:16 be able to be moved to accommodate 26 feet.
18:29:19 But, we do think seven feet is excessive.
18:29:22 >> I can't hear you.
18:29:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Speak a little closer.
18:29:25 >> We do believe that the seven feet is excessive for
18:29:28 reduction in the drive aisle.
18:29:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do you see any options?
18:29:35 Are there any logistical options, things they could
18:29:39 change to accommodate your concern?
18:29:41 And does it create a concern out to the general public?
18:29:43 Is or just to the patrons of this establishment?
18:29:47 >> Just for basically for this site.
18:29:50 I don't see it being an issue for the general public.
18:29:52 I met with the agent and there really is no other
18:29:59 The drive aisle.
18:30:01 But it's just a technical objection that we have.
18:30:05 >> Thank you.
18:30:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilmember Miranda.
18:30:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Has nothing to do with zoning.
18:30:11 What kind of medical office?
18:30:16 >> It's going to be for, the name of the office is
18:30:19 going to be the pain and wellness.
18:30:21 >> Huh?
18:30:22 >> It's going to be for pain treatment office.
18:30:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I am not trying -- oh, my gosh.
18:30:31 I think we just passed and ordinance that you have to
18:30:36 jump some hoops to get it.
18:30:37 I know you're legit and all that.
18:30:40 But there's a lot of things that we just did last
18:30:43 Thursday, on an emergency basis, and we didn't go over
18:30:49 the option of moratorium, and I believe rightly so,
18:30:53 because in my feeling anyway, if you went with a
18:30:56 moratorium and legit establishment that was already
18:30:59 there, could then object and file a lawsuit and then
18:31:02 all hell would break loose in the city, just like
18:31:06 what's been going on through today.
18:31:08 I don't know what to tell you.
18:31:10 But I can the tell you one thing, I'm out looking at
18:31:13 pain and wellness very kind any more.
18:31:16 I'm not here to regulate pain and wellness.
18:31:19 I can't as a government tell you or your patient or
18:31:22 your doctor what kind of pain they have, how much pain
18:31:26 they have.
18:31:26 What kind of pills they got to take.
18:31:28 But I can tell you that there's been a lot of problems
18:31:33 in this city and I can name you four others that are
18:31:36 open that are going to be closed very shortly.
18:31:38 But I won't divulge that information today.
18:31:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I guess, I guess we need some legal
18:31:46 counsel at this point.
18:31:47 >> Mr. Chairman, again, miss Miranda stated at the
18:31:51 outset, that really does not --
18:31:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No it doesn't.
18:31:54 >> Your looking at the particular category of use, and
18:31:57 obviously there would have to comply with whatever else
18:32:01 Council has set forth in the code.
18:32:02 They'd have to comply with any other regulations.
18:32:05 With regard to this particular petition, just look to
18:32:10 what is being requested.
18:32:11 The site plan, and the compatibility, the waivers and
18:32:14 the other issues that you would normally look to, to
18:32:16 decide whether or not this is something that you wish
18:32:19 to approve.
18:32:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilmember Saul-Sena?
18:32:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I move to close the public hearing.
18:32:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other question by Council?
18:32:30 Okay, sir, anything else you want to put on the record
18:32:33 before we close the public hearing?
18:32:35 >> Oh, yes, well, I hear your concerns, councilmember.
18:32:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You can't talk about my concerns,
18:32:43 because they're not legal issues concerning the zoning
18:32:46 I just brought that up.
18:32:49 To understand where I'm at.
18:32:51 I'm not going to be ---anyway, let's leave it at that.
18:32:55 >> I believe the doctor who will be, who is planning
18:32:59 the to buy this property is a good reputation.
18:33:01 And you know, it's basically run, a well-run business.
18:33:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And this zoning is solely for
18:33:11 medical practice, not medical practice and prescription
18:33:14 at the same time?
18:33:17 >> I believe it's medical practice.
18:33:19 I'm not aware of whether they too proceed descriptions.
18:33:21 -- prescriptions.
18:33:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion to close.
18:33:26 A second?
18:33:27 Moved and second, all in favor signify by saying aye.
18:33:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Even though we are closed I'm not
18:33:37 going to ask the question regarding zoning.
18:33:39 Jewel crashes all petitions that come after last
18:33:42 Thursday under this subject matter, would have to go
18:33:44 through the new ordinance, correct?
18:33:46 >> Correct.
18:33:46 What would happen, with this or any other pain
18:33:50 management clinics falling under the definition of the
18:33:54 new ordinance that we put in place, would need to get a
18:33:56 business operating permit, as part of that permit, they
18:33:58 do need to show they are in compliance with current
18:34:01 code, so, that's how it would be handled.
18:34:05 It would be a business operating permit and wouldn't
18:34:07 have anything really to do with the zoning except to
18:34:09 the extent that they comply with coach.
18:34:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilmember Saul-Sena?
18:34:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
18:34:16 I'd like to move ordinance approving a medical office
18:34:19 building in RO-1 residential office zoning district in
18:34:23 the general vicinity of 5409 North Armenia Avenue, in
18:34:26 the City of Tampa, Florida, and is more particularly
18:34:29 described in section one here, providing an effective
18:34:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
18:34:34 Second by Council--councilmember Dingfelder.
18:34:38 All in favor.
18:34:39 >> Motion carried with Mulhern being absent.
18:34:41 Second reading and adoption will be on June 24 at
18:34:44 9:30 a.m.
18:34:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
18:34:46 Item 4?
18:35:16 >> Good evening, Abbye Feeley, land development.
18:35:18 Item number four on your agenda is V10-03, 2134, 2136,
18:35:25 2138 and 2140 West LaSalle Street.
18:35:29 1945 and 1947 West LaSalle Street, the request is
18:35:35 before you this evening is rezone to PD for a parking
18:35:37 off street principal.
18:35:43 And if you'll see on your site plan, I'm sure Tony will
18:35:48 talk about it too.
18:35:48 These are two parcels in this PD.
18:35:50 And they are not adjacent parcels.
18:35:53 So you have one close to Howard avenue and one to
18:35:57 LaSalle, further down on LaSalle as you can see on your
18:36:08 >> Good evening, Tony Garcia, Planning Commission
18:36:11 I have been sworn.
18:36:12 We are still sticking with the central business
18:36:17 district, or the central district on your vision map.
18:36:21 We have got out of the --
18:36:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Garcia, if you could -- for some
18:36:24 reason, we are not able to hear very clearly tonight.
18:36:27 I don't know if it's because our hearing dull.
18:36:33 >>TONY GARCIA: No problem.
18:36:34 How's that?
18:36:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Better.
18:36:37 >>TONY GARCIA: Of the seven cases tonight, six of the
18:36:39 cases will be in the central district.
18:36:40 The planning district on the vision map.
18:36:42 So, it's working pretty good as far as how we like to
18:36:45 see growth being directed in the city.
18:36:49 That being said this particular location is located in
18:36:51 the historic West Tampa area.
18:36:53 And is located just to the south of the interstate.
18:36:58 As you can see, depicted right here.
18:37:03 There's two locations, as Miss Feeley has told you
18:37:06 These two lots have already been developed and are
18:37:10 functioning presently as parking lots.
18:37:12 So I guess that's one of the things that you'll be
18:37:17 bringing up this evening.
18:37:19 They are to provide ancillary parking to Argosy
18:37:24 University, which was formerly the historic
18:37:28 Berriman-Morgan cigar factory built in 104.
18:37:33 Really has been restored very, very nicely.
18:37:35 As you are aware of.
18:37:37 There are already parking to the rear over here, I
18:37:39 guess to accommodate the students that go to the
18:37:41 university and the faculty and whatever other
18:37:44 supporting businesses are in this particular structure.
18:37:48 I guess the request, or the -- there was an additional
18:37:52 need for some additional parking, which is why these
18:37:55 two parcels have been acquired, or these two land areas
18:37:59 have been acquired for the purpose of providing
18:38:01 ancillary parking.
18:38:02 Here's a more zoomed in approach.
18:38:08 As you can see, this was taken while they were still
18:38:11 doing the interstate acquisition and building that
18:38:14 south part of I-275.
18:38:17 So right now, you will have a wall abutting this
18:38:21 particular location.
18:38:22 The wall goes right up to the building over here and
18:38:25 also to this particular lot.
18:38:27 One of the two lots.
18:38:28 This lot is, I think gravel, but I'm not going to get
18:38:32 into particulars as far as from a comp plan aspect.
18:38:35 Just from a functionality aspect to let you know it is
18:38:38 the historic district of course, trying to deal with
18:38:40 providing new opportunities with, the advent of the car
18:38:43 coming in, from an area that was built back in the late
18:38:47 When you didn't have a lot of cars and now you've got a
18:38:51 grid network and a lot more cars, the need for
18:38:53 ancillary parking is there.
18:38:55 So you have this, this -- this dilemma trying to
18:39:01 accommodate new economic development in historic area,
18:39:05 while preserving the historic character of the area as
18:39:08 far as the increased usage of the automobile.
18:39:11 So that's one of the things that you're having to deal
18:39:13 with over here.
18:39:14 Aesthetically too, I think Miss Feeley is probably
18:39:17 going into the details from a stormwater M:OOPS aspect
18:39:20 and a shedding aspect and green space aspect.
18:39:22 That's more what the land development regulations are.
18:39:25 I'll let her speak to those things.
18:39:27 But as far as the use allowed within the land use
18:39:29 categories, I show you right now, you do have the
18:39:32 community commercial 35 and the residential 10 category
18:39:34 over here.
18:39:36 Again this is already taken away by the expressway
18:39:39 development, so this doesn't exist any more as far as
18:39:42 land use is concerned.
18:39:43 Residential 10 does allow stormwater, retention and
18:39:47 does allow parking, ancillary parking.
18:39:50 So those are allowable uses.
18:39:52 Comprehensive plan of, does allow for these, so overall
18:39:55 based on what we found, we can find this particular
18:39:58 request overall consistent with the comprehensive plan
18:40:01 as far as the uses are concerned, rest hip to what
18:40:03 they're providing a function to, which is the Argosy
18:40:06 University structure.
18:40:07 Thank you.
18:40:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
18:40:16 >> Council, Abbye Feeley, land development.
18:40:18 As Tony mentioned, the request before you this evening
18:40:27 is for two parking lots.
18:40:30 And there are serving this PD here, which we just
18:40:35 rezoned not too long ago, together.
18:40:41 The reason why they are independent, however, is that
18:40:45 the reality always is that they could be sold off.
18:40:48 They don't meet definition of accessory parking because
18:40:50 they're not adjacent to the structure.
18:40:52 Or the zoning lot that they're serving.
18:40:54 So they are sitting here.
18:40:57 The lot to the west is adjacent to the CI that runs
18:41:00 along Howard avenue.
18:41:02 The lot over to the east is actually north of
18:41:06 nonconforming use here in the RS-50.
18:41:09 And the multifamily, that's nonconforming here in the
18:41:13 Also there are couple landmark structures that are
18:41:16 located just one door down from the lot.
18:41:20 Over here on the east.
18:41:22 Miss Anthony staff reports, she refers to this as
18:41:28 location one and location two.
18:41:29 So when I am referring to items in that staff report,
18:41:32 momentarily, it will be location here on the west and
18:41:35 location two here to the east.
18:41:38 Howard avenue, LaSalle, Albany, my arrow also shows the
18:41:41 construction of the interstate expansion there, so on
18:41:44 your zoning atlas it looks like there's some PDs and
18:41:48 lots back there.
18:41:49 That's no longer there.
18:41:50 Go ahead and show you some pictures.
18:41:56 I'm going to start of course with the Berriman-Morgan
18:42:04 cigar factory there.
18:42:06 This is the lot, location one, on the western side.
18:42:10 You'll see in your staff report, there's a number of
18:42:16 waivers that are being requested in relationship to
18:42:18 these lots.
18:42:19 More predominantly in relation to buffering and
18:42:23 screening that's required when you have a lot.
18:42:26 Parking lot, and the green space.
18:42:29 There's the six foot masonry wall there.
18:42:35 On the other side, there is no, no wall.
18:42:42 This location, as you'll see in your staff report, I
18:42:48 believe is required nine trees.
18:42:49 On the site plan, there are three trees that are going
18:42:52 to be provided.
18:42:53 Two are going to be provided in the right-of-way.
18:42:55 And one is going to be provided in this island here.
18:42:58 Other than that on this site, there's a waiver for the
18:43:01 remaining trees that were to be planted.
18:43:03 Hearse a look down the alley.
18:43:11 And the lot toward Howard.
18:43:13 And this is that house that is immediately adjacent to
18:43:22 that six foot wall.
18:43:23 Pretty tight squeeze there.
18:43:25 That's location one.
18:43:27 I'll now go to location 2.
18:43:35 This is looking at location 2.
18:43:43 Mr. Garcia did say it is gravel.
18:43:47 It appears to be that, with some wheel stops that are
18:43:50 in there now.
18:43:50 There's a chain link fence currently around the
18:43:54 This is looking south.
18:43:58 I mentioned there was a non-conforming use on that
18:44:01 southeast corner.
18:44:02 That's that game room there.
18:44:05 Commercial use.
18:44:05 Again, on this one, very limited buffering.
18:44:11 This side I believe was required 12 trees.
18:44:16 And it has the same scenario.
18:44:18 It's an identical lot, where three trees are being
18:44:20 provided, two will be provided in the right-of-way.
18:44:22 One will be provided in a small island.
18:44:27 And there's a waiver for nine trees on this site.
18:44:29 The wood fence there.
18:44:34 This is looking north toward the interstate.
18:44:37 This is the other nonconforming use I discussed with
18:44:44 you, the multifamily, just to the west.
18:44:47 This is looking back toward Howard.
18:44:49 This is looking east.
18:45:00 And I believe I had a shot of the house that is
18:45:04 immediately to the east.
18:45:09 But I don't see it -- right here.
18:45:12 This is directly on the other side of that wood fence.
18:45:15 That does not contain any other buffering.
18:45:18 The required buffer for this use would be 15 feet with
18:45:24 a six foot masonry wall.
18:45:27 You'd have the six foot masonry wall, then the 15 feet
18:45:30 of green space and then your first parking space.
18:45:33 What's being provided, the six foot wood fence.
18:45:35 One of the reasons we require a six foot masonry wall
18:45:39 in the green space is block any headlights, items that
18:45:42 could affect that residential property.
18:45:44 If the residential property is very low intensive use
18:45:47 and the parking lot is use group C or very high
18:45:50 intensity use.
18:45:51 Go ahead back to the staff report.
18:45:58 There are seven waivers associated with this request
18:46:04 The first is to reduce those buffers I just talked
18:46:07 about, from 15 feet to one foot.
18:46:10 With an existing six foot masonry wall for the first
18:46:15 And also for the second location.
18:46:18 So, that wood fence will need to be removed and
18:46:21 replaced with a miss ornery wall.
18:46:24 -- masonry wall.
18:46:26 The second is reduce the required buffer along the east
18:46:28 and west boundary from one foot to a vine to zero foot
18:46:32 without a vine for location one.
18:46:33 So that wall should be planted with a vine, if you go
18:46:35 down to that.
18:46:36 And they are requested to waive that vine.
18:46:38 Third is to reduce the required number of trees from
18:46:41 seven to zero on location one.
18:46:46 And nine to zero on location two.
18:46:48 To be revised in between first and second reading.
18:46:51 The fourth is section 13161, which is our tree and
18:47:00 And that is to reduce the required eight foot buffer to
18:47:03 zero foot.
18:47:06 When you have parking spaces immediately adjacent to
18:47:08 the right-of-way, you're required an eight foot buffer
18:47:11 until you start your spaces and that buffer is to be
18:47:14 They're going to pay for that, as fee in lieu.
18:47:17 It will be 672 square feet for location one at the time
18:47:21 of permitting and 1151 square feet for location 2 at
18:47:25 the time of permitting.
18:47:26 Waiver number six is allow the northern four parking
18:47:31 spaces in location one closest to LaSalle to maneuver
18:47:34 in the right-of-way.
18:47:35 And the last waiver is to allow the southernmost four
18:47:38 spaces in location 2, closest to LaSalle to maneuver in
18:47:41 the public right-of-way.
18:47:43 Each of these lots are 95 by 100 feet, so they contain
18:47:48 9500 square feet for a combined area of 19,000.
18:47:54 I do want to go through briefly the objections.
18:47:58 We do have a revision sheet for these modifications,
18:48:01 but land development does have some concerns in
18:48:03 relation to location number 2.
18:48:05 With location number 1, it's immediately adjacent to
18:48:10 the commercial intensive, so that's not really an
18:48:12 intrusion into the residential area.
18:48:13 But on the second lot, it is immediately adjacent to a
18:48:17 residential house, which I showed you, with minimum
18:48:20 It's now introducing traffic, parking and things back
18:48:24 into that residential area, which we typically try to
18:48:27 keep closer to the main corridors, so that that
18:48:31 transition area can occur.
18:48:32 I believe that Miss Anthony on page three and five of
18:48:41 her staff report found that location inconsistent with
18:48:44 the existing character of that area for parking lot.
18:48:47 There were some other modifications related to the
18:48:55 proposed fencing.
18:48:56 That fencing that you saw, the wrought iron on location
18:48:59 one was not included on the site plan.
18:49:01 As you all know, on a PD, planned development, you need
18:49:04 to show any fencing that is on the site plan, because
18:49:07 code refers to PDs as what is shown on the site plan
18:49:10 for all fencing.
18:49:11 On page number 3 of your staff report, there were some
18:49:17 comments from urban design that the five foot sidewalk
18:49:21 required along with south street and Albany shall be
18:49:25 con greet and the drawing incorrectly depicts the
18:49:29 potential for asphalt sidewalk along LaSalle and then
18:49:32 secondly, urban design would like to see that depressed
18:49:35 rather than removed.
18:49:36 And the existing granite curbing at the driveway
18:49:40 ingress and egress for both parking lots, which is
18:49:42 consistent with the transportation code.
18:49:45 Staff is available for any questions.
18:49:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The sheet you handed us, is this for
18:49:50 the second parking lot, for the revision or for the
18:49:53 first one?
18:49:53 That wasn't clear.
18:49:55 >> It should be for both.
18:49:56 It should be for the site plan in general.
18:49:59 On the revision sheet, there's one that says to add the
18:50:06 following waiver.
18:50:06 Which is to reduce the required buffer along the east
18:50:10 and west for location one.
18:50:11 And then they need to show all fencing.
18:50:15 So the second lot has that chain link fence.
18:50:17 That's not currently shown sand I'm not sure what
18:50:20 Mr. Jammal's intentions for the fencing on that lot is.
18:50:24 Whether to keep the chain link or install some sort of
18:50:27 wrought iron like he did on the other lot.
18:50:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilmember Miranda, then Dingfelder.
18:50:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Couple things crossed my mind.
18:50:35 No one, including unit two would with ever need a fence
18:50:38 to the north.
18:50:39 That's the expressway.
18:50:45 >> I'm not sure if they want to secure those lots.
18:50:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I mean, it's 15 to 18 feet tall.
18:50:50 And we spent a lot of money making it look nice.
18:50:53 I'm looking at Albany, and I understand there's a
18:51:00 residential house here.
18:51:02 Why couldn't Albany be closed and the land divided in
18:51:06 I'm just looking at something, I'm saying, what if, and
18:51:09 what if in my own mind.
18:51:11 Because certainly there's not going to be any traffic
18:51:13 heading north on Albany, from LaSalle.
18:51:15 I believe the northern point of that road was laurel at
18:51:19 one time.
18:51:20 And laurel has disappeared now.
18:51:22 That's the entrance ramp to the expressway.
18:51:25 Heading east.
18:51:26 So it would be no need, in my opinion -- I'm not a
18:51:31 planner, I admit to that.
18:51:33 I swear to that.
18:51:33 I'm not a traffic engineer.
18:51:35 But in my mind, I'm saying why is Albany open at that
18:51:39 It dead ends.
18:51:41 It ends to a wall that a Sherman tank couldn't go
18:51:46 Unless you fired weapons.
18:51:47 But, that's what I don't understand.
18:51:50 I understand some of the other concerns.
18:51:56 But I'll rest my case now for that.
18:51:59 Thank you.
18:51:59 You don't have to answer meet.
18:52:00 I just did myself.
18:52:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilmember Dingfelder?
18:52:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thanks.
18:52:09 So, in regard to the staff report, it says location 2,
18:52:16 surrounded by residential, less eastern south.
18:52:21 And then it adds a suggestion about the buffering.
18:52:25 Are you indicating that the, inconsistent
18:52:31 recommendation is removed if the buffering is changed?
18:52:33 Or no?
18:52:34 >> I don't believe so.
18:52:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You're the boss, so tell me.
18:52:41 >> Well--
18:52:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You're not our boss, but you're the
18:52:46 boss of your group.
18:52:48 >> I believe in Miss Anthony's discussion on page four,
18:52:51 where it talks about PD criteria and whether this use
18:52:53 is compatible, she found that given the existing
18:52:56 character of the area, the use was not compatible.
18:52:59 Because what it would generate.
18:53:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can you run back then the pictures
18:53:03 that surround that lot, that number two then?
18:53:06 And then of course the petitioner will have his chance
18:53:09 to make his case.
18:53:18 >> This is standing on LaSalle, looking north.
18:53:23 That's the fence.
18:53:30 That's the house.
18:53:32 That's the house to the east.
18:53:37 Immediately adjacent to the parking lot.
18:53:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
18:53:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Is there a house to the west?
18:53:51 >> If we turned and went south, this is a house to the
18:53:55 And then.
18:53:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Across the street.
18:53:59 >> Yes.
18:53:59 And then this is that nonconforming commercial use
18:54:06 immediately to the south.
18:54:11 >> I don't believe she has a picture -- this is looking
18:54:14 west, back toward -- the cigar factory.
18:54:17 So this is Albany, where Mr. Miranda was discussing the
18:54:20 possibility, I guess of vacating where that could be
18:54:24 And this is I believe two duplexes.
18:54:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Those are two immediately to the
18:54:32 >> Yes.
18:54:33 Across Albany.
18:54:37 >> Let me put the aerial back on and I'll show you
18:54:39 where we are.
18:54:40 So that's right over here.
18:54:42 Those are the duplexes to the west.
18:54:49 Two units here.
18:54:50 Two units here.
18:54:51 Then there's one more single-family, and then starts
18:54:55 the PD.
18:54:57 And then we were right here and I showed you there was
18:54:59 a house here.
18:55:00 Two landmarked home structures here.
18:55:03 This was that game room here.
18:55:05 There is a home here.
18:55:07 And a series of houses here.
18:55:09 So, the multifamily here is a nonconforming and the
18:55:15 Because all of this is RS-50 with the exception of when
18:55:18 you come up and hit the CR line there.
18:55:20 And then this also is nonconforming to the south there.
18:55:23 Everything else predominantly in this area is
18:55:28 single-family residential.
18:55:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Put that back up again.
18:55:32 The aerial you had.
18:55:34 Then the number one is up there closer to Howard?
18:55:38 >> Right.
18:55:38 It's immediately adjacent to this commercial use here.
18:55:41 It used to be for.
18:55:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: They're already down?
18:55:46 >> Yes, sir.
18:55:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: All right.
18:55:49 Thank you.
18:55:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?
18:56:01 >> Mr. Jammal, Jammal Engineering, 1910 West Kennedy
18:56:13 Boulevard, Tampa, 33306.
18:56:16 I have already been sworn in.
18:56:18 Couple things, Miss Feeley, didn't mention.
18:56:27 And some of it has to do with what Mr. Miranda was
18:56:31 The property that you see now as vacant land was, was
18:56:36 improved at one time.
18:56:37 And it was also a nonconforming use and it was used as
18:56:41 a commercial property.
18:56:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What are you talking about, number
18:56:46 one or number two?
18:56:47 >> Number two.
18:56:48 That was, that was a structure there at one time.
18:56:51 And DOT had acquired it through right-of-way
18:56:58 And they demolished the structure.
18:57:00 But then the alignment of the highway was changed, and
18:57:03 then the lot remained vacant.
18:57:06 And after it remained vacant, it became grounds for
18:57:11 illegal dumping, people were dumping hazardous waste
18:57:15 material, mattresses, lumber, all sorts of residential
18:57:21 trash in that area.
18:57:22 DOT owns this property.
18:57:26 We don't own it.
18:57:27 We're leasing it from DOT.
18:57:29 And we have cleaned up the property.
18:57:32 And yes, we did put gravel there.
18:57:34 And we are going through the process to acquire PD.
18:57:41 And would like for this petition to be, to be granted.
18:57:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Go ahead.
18:57:51 >> The property immediately across, what you were
18:57:55 asking on the south side, is also referred to as the
18:58:00 game room.
18:58:01 Is also a store, electrical supply store.
18:58:03 And to the west, you also got some nonconforming use.
18:58:10 So there's really no intrusion so to speak into that
18:58:13 residential area.
18:58:14 Whatever intrusion happened already happened.
18:58:19 And we're just improving something that was used for
18:58:25 illegal dumping.
18:58:26 And we have made that a lot more aesthetically pleasing
18:58:31 than it has been within the last five years.
18:58:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council Miranda, then councilmember
18:58:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to make reference to the
18:58:41 fence that I saw between property 2 and the house.
18:58:45 When I looked at it the first time, my eye didn't catch
18:58:49 it, but the second time it did.
18:58:51 I'm making an assumption that you didn't put up that
18:58:54 >> No, that was --
18:58:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Because the way the fence is
18:58:57 constructed, the homeowner had to put up the fence or
18:59:00 not, it was an illegal fence because the clear good
18:59:05 side faces your neighbor, which would be to the west.
18:59:08 No matter if there were illegal dumping or not, the law
18:59:12 requires to you have the poles or whatever holds up the
18:59:14 fence, through your side if you're the one building the
18:59:17 So, they're making reference to the fence, but that's
18:59:20 not your fence that you constructed, am I correct?
18:59:24 >> That is correct.
18:59:24 And we are going to be, just to correct what
18:59:27 Miss Feeley was with talking about.
18:59:28 We'll have a wrought iron fence similar to the property
18:59:33 on location one.
18:59:34 So it will be a lot more aesthetically pleasing.
18:59:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I got myself confused here.
18:59:42 You're going to put up a wrought iron fence between the
18:59:45 property and the house or wall fence between the
18:59:47 property and the house?
18:59:49 >> Between the house, the house to the east I think is
18:59:51 what you're talking about.
18:59:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Correct.
18:59:53 >> The house to the east, we'll be putting a masonry
18:59:57 So there will be the same layout that you see on
18:59:59 property one, will be on property two.
19:00:02 With the masonry wall, abut ting the residential lot.
19:00:07 And by the way, we do have a letter of support from
19:00:09 that property owner.
19:00:11 And they do want the wall there.
19:00:12 And they're very supportive of everything that we have
19:00:15 done in that neighborhood.
19:00:16 We have always gotten a lot of support from the other
19:00:21 neighbors on location one, in reference to the wall.
19:00:24 And one more thing before I forget, as far as urban
19:00:30 design had given an inconsistent comment.
19:00:34 But since that comment was made, urban design did
19:00:39 clarify some things to Towanda and maybe it didn't get
19:00:43 to Miss Feeley.
19:00:45 And that was already corrected.
19:00:48 And the comments that were given to Towanda were
19:00:55 >> Charlie Miranda: I understand.
19:00:55 There was a game room.
19:00:57 Before that, it was, still had electrical supply, and
19:01:01 before that it was called Albany's grocery store.
19:01:04 >> That's right.
19:01:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Garcia told me that.
19:01:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilmember Dingfelder, then
19:01:11 councilmember Saul-Sena.
19:01:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think we're probably all somewhat
19:01:18 sympathetic, the need for parking, you know, clearly
19:01:23 when you started on this project X number of years ago,
19:01:26 it was obvious that there was going to be some need for
19:01:31 But, I guess it's just a function of making sure that
19:01:35 the parking fits.
19:01:37 My dentist on Davis Island has a little office right
19:01:41 there on Davis Boulevard.
19:01:44 He needed parking, so he bought the lot behind him.
19:01:49 And a single lot, and it's sandwiched between two very
19:01:54 nice single-family houses.
19:01:56 But it's a really nice parking lot for his staff.
19:01:58 And it's sort of offsite, but it fits.
19:02:04 And I don't think anybody ever complained about it.
19:02:06 When you talk about a reduction from 16 trees down to
19:02:09 zero trees, that's, and that would be the permanent
19:02:14 condition, it doesn't seem to really add much, you
19:02:18 know, in terms of aesthetics or just sort of comfort to
19:02:22 the residential neighborhood.
19:02:23 I'm glad you're going to do the wrought iron fence.
19:02:28 The masonry wall, is that going to step down as you
19:02:31 come toward the street?
19:02:33 >> No.
19:02:34 >> Does it stay six feet all the way out?
19:02:37 >> Yes.
19:02:38 >> Well, there's a little unusual, isn't it?
19:02:41 Because what?
19:02:43 Tell me, Abbye.
19:02:46 >> Specifically, the buffer that is required does run
19:02:49 the whole property line.
19:02:50 So it would run -- it's only when you're in a
19:02:54 residential, when the residential is putting in their
19:02:56 fence that it steps down.
19:02:58 But when you're buffering, because you could park up
19:03:00 into that front couple feet of the property.
19:03:05 That required buffer is more intensive uses does run
19:03:08 the property line from start to finish.
19:03:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So when you have the commercial type
19:03:13 next to residential, that's what we like?
19:03:15 >> Uh-huh.
19:03:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Because from a street perspective,
19:03:19 it's not a great look.
19:03:21 Mine, seems like stepping down would be a better look
19:03:24 for the street.
19:03:24 But you're saying from the neighbor's perspective, they
19:03:27 might prefer that?
19:03:29 But anyway, just back to the trees, Mr. Jammal.
19:03:36 >> What do you want to talk about first?
19:03:38 The trees or the fence?
19:03:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I guess we are okay on the fence and
19:03:42 the wall.
19:03:43 Sound like.
19:03:44 You're asking for a significant reduction in trees.
19:03:47 Obviously you'd have to pay into the tree bank for that
19:03:50 But that doesn't help that neighborhood.
19:03:52 And it looks like that neighborhood is there to stay.
19:03:56 >> We're, you know, these are numbers that we didn't
19:04:01 necessarily agree on.
19:04:02 But we have committed to them.
19:04:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Committed to what?
19:04:08 >> We have committed for the, for the fee in Louvre
19:04:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I wasn't talking about that.
19:04:14 I'm talking about putting the trees in -- I've never
19:04:17 liked the in lieu thing because it doesn't add to that
19:04:20 specific neighborhood.
19:04:21 In terms of trees and green, you know, green and that
19:04:25 sort of thing.
19:04:26 >> There are some trees that are going to be planted in
19:04:30 the right-of-way.
19:04:30 And because, because some of the trees would, would
19:04:37 affect the sight trying angle, transportation was
19:04:42 against the planting of trees.
19:04:43 But, the if you notice -- so we are limited on the one
19:04:49 location number one, we're somewhat limited.
19:04:51 Now, we can plant a lot more trees, and which we'll,
19:04:55 we'll be seeking permission for that, along the north
19:04:57 side of LaSalle.
19:04:58 Which is independent of this PD.
19:05:02 But on the other side, which is location number two,
19:05:06 there's a section of green area, which is about
19:05:09 14 feet, I believe, 14 feet minus the five feet, 14.7
19:05:15 minus the five feet.
19:05:17 Around 10-foot section, that runs in the north-south
19:05:21 And --
19:05:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let me --
19:05:25 >> That's green area.
19:05:26 Let me finish.
19:05:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You're not getting to my core
19:05:30 question, which I probably haven't stated very well.
19:05:32 I think everybody who builds a parking lot in the city
19:05:35 would probably like to do it without trees so you can
19:05:37 maximum the number of spaces.
19:05:39 I'm assuming that's why you want to delete all the
19:05:42 trees, to maximize number of spaces.
19:05:46 All I'm saying is maybe there's a middle ground there.
19:05:49 Where you could add a few more trees between first and
19:05:52 second reading to make this more aesthetically pleasing
19:05:56 to the neighborhood as opposed to being 50 by 100 feet
19:06:00 of gravel lot, or whatever.
19:06:03 Without any landscaping.
19:06:05 That's what our code says.
19:06:08 Must say it for a reason.
19:06:10 And because we as a community have decided that trees
19:06:14 in parking lots are a good thing.
19:06:16 >> If you look at your side plan, you see that 14 feet
19:06:19 along the west side --
19:06:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Could somebody put it up so that
19:06:24 everybody can see what we are talking about?
19:06:44 >> There's a section on location two, and that section
19:06:48 is a green area.
19:06:49 And that's a section that we can add additional trees,
19:06:54 which would be with...
19:06:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think that's the point.
19:06:59 If you can do it, let's do it.
19:07:01 >> We could do it there.
19:07:02 There's a sidewalk.
19:07:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Your dimension of 14 feet includes
19:07:09 the five foot sidewalk.
19:07:11 So not 14 feet of green.
19:07:13 >> I said the 14 feet minus the sidewalk.
19:07:16 Which would give us about ten foot wide strip by 95.
19:07:20 And then we could add additional trees.
19:07:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You probably need to talk to Council
19:07:25 who are going to make the decision.
19:07:27 >> Thank you.
19:07:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: How about if we deferred it for one
19:07:31 or two more items, while you guys can maybe confer on
19:07:35 this a little bit.
19:07:36 Then we'll come back a little later in the evening and
19:07:39 resolve that.
19:07:40 It's important to me. I don't know if it's important
19:07:42 to the rest of Council.
19:07:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Miss Saul-Sena has her hand up.
19:07:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think what we should do, we
19:07:50 haven't heard from the public yet.
19:07:51 But I want to say, Mr. Jammal, you know I love what you
19:07:55 did with the building, historically beautiful.
19:07:58 But I can't accept this loss of trees.
19:08:00 It's just not, not the quality that we need in our
19:08:04 And also not planting a vine, that's easy.
19:08:07 So, I'd like to hear from the public and then maybe we
19:08:10 need to give the petitioner a time to make revisions,
19:08:15 if they can be made on-site.
19:08:18 And if it means giving up a couple parking space sews
19:08:21 that we can have the adequate number of trees, I think
19:08:24 that's really important.
19:08:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano and then Councilman
19:08:30 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Jammal, the entrance to
19:08:35 parking lot number two, is that going to be off LaSalle
19:08:39 or off the alleyway?
19:08:41 >> Yes, it will be off of LaSalle.
19:08:43 >> So there won't be an entrance in the back?
19:08:45 In other words--
19:08:46 >> That's correct.
19:08:48 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: The expressway.
19:08:49 >> That is correct.
19:08:50 We can add trees there in those islands.
19:08:54 We could put trees in all these islands.
19:09:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's good.
19:09:02 >> But that's something that staff didn't -- no, you
19:09:07 didn't recommend that.
19:09:08 We have been working on this since January.
19:09:10 We wanted to put trees in all these islands.
19:09:13 We could put four trees, I mean, we could do this right
19:09:16 We could put four trees in the northern part.
19:09:19 And we --
19:09:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let him finish and I will have you come
19:09:24 Go ahead.
19:09:24 >> And we could put two more trees on the south side in
19:09:28 addition to the ones on the right-of-way.
19:09:30 So we could put four on the north side.
19:09:32 And two on the south side.
19:09:34 That's six.
19:09:34 We could do the same things on the other lot.
19:09:36 We could do it.
19:09:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council Miranda?
19:09:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It sound great.
19:09:47 It sounds wonderful.
19:09:48 But when you start messing around with trees to the
19:09:51 north and that tree starts to grow, it's like planting
19:09:54 it under, we are real smart in government, we plant
19:09:56 them in the right-of-way right under the telephone
19:09:59 And then you've got to cut them.
19:10:01 Then everybody gets upset.
19:10:02 And I understand that.
19:10:03 So you plant trees there in the north, sooner or later
19:10:06 they're going to go over the expressway.
19:10:09 Unless you plant little trees that don't grow,
19:10:13 Like me, midget trees.
19:10:14 >> They will be hollies like the ones we have already.
19:10:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I was saying then, I brought it up
19:10:20 to this Council over two years ago, over 100 grand
19:10:23 trees were Dorn town by the expressway.
19:10:26 Not one peep was said.
19:10:28 >> That's because it was the federal government.
19:10:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Government treats government
19:10:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It was the federal government.
19:10:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I don't care if it's federal
19:10:37 government, state government or whatever.
19:10:38 Government does whatever they want.
19:10:40 But when it comes to individualism, you got to pay,
19:10:44 So you're going to have to put the trees or give the
19:10:47 And you sed say you want to put the trees in the north
19:10:51 in lieu of the money.
19:10:52 I'm for that.
19:10:52 But I don't know if that meets the requirement of the
19:10:55 City has more laws than passengers visit the statute of
19:11:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilmember Caetano.
19:11:05 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Miss Abbye, why don't you want
19:11:07 trees in the islands?
19:11:10 >> Abbye Feeley, land development.
19:11:11 We do want trees in the island.
19:11:13 I know that Mary requested and the problem, to plant a
19:11:16 two inch tree, you need a six foot protective radius
19:11:20 from the trunk of that tree to allow to it grow.
19:11:22 I can show you the pictures. Islands that have already
19:11:25 been constructed 0 location one.
19:11:26 And they're very small.
19:11:28 It's not sufficient.
19:11:29 We need that six foot.
19:11:31 So he's saying there's an island there.
19:11:33 I need to see that six foot protective radius that goes
19:11:36 around that tree and that island.
19:11:38 And it's not.
19:11:40 He's going to need to lose a couple spaces to
19:11:42 accommodate that by code.
19:11:43 Because the only thing we are doing is setting up a
19:11:45 tree just to die if we're not giving it amount of space
19:11:49 it needs to grow.
19:11:50 So our code requires, actually requires a ten foot.
19:11:52 But typically we'll take six.
19:11:54 And then they can use some structural soils.
19:11:57 I think on location one, it's already done, as you can
19:12:02 Location two already has that gravel there.
19:12:03 It may have little bit more ability to accommodate some
19:12:06 additional plantings.
19:12:08 That is the larger and it does require I think I said
19:12:12 12 trees.
19:12:13 So, he's going to put two in those front islands -- I'm
19:12:17 sorry, just one.
19:12:18 Here, let me show you real quick.
19:12:20 I did discuss this with Mary before I came over this
19:12:28 As you can see here, you have that triangle area.
19:12:32 So that's much substantially larger.
19:12:35 That is an island that could accommodate.
19:12:37 This right here, that can't.
19:12:38 It needs to come out and square off so you can put a
19:12:41 tree right in the middle there.
19:12:42 Right in the middle there.
19:12:43 One of the other buffers that we talked about, one of
19:12:45 the other waivers was that eight foot.
19:12:47 You're supposed to have eight foot of green before you
19:12:50 start these spaces.
19:12:51 These spaces come down.
19:12:53 Exactly to the property line.
19:12:55 So, that's one of the reasons why those additional
19:12:58 plantings can't be accommodated in the current
19:13:00 configuration that Mr. Jammal has on the site.
19:13:06 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: What type of tree are you
19:13:07 requiring there?
19:13:08 >> It would be your typically required, 50% shade and
19:13:12 60% native of the ones that you're required to plant.
19:13:15 So of the 12 trees, he would be required 50% shade
19:13:18 I'm not sure about the power line situation out there.
19:13:22 We do have power lines species that he could use.
19:13:26 Red bought or holly or something like that.
19:13:28 There are some opportunities there for shade that's
19:13:30 also kind of a lower growing tree that would, you know,
19:13:34 shade some of that surface area.
19:13:39 >> He should also put an island in the mail.
19:13:46 >>GWEN MILLER: You're saying if he lose one or two
19:13:48 parking space and put those trees in that island, that
19:13:51 would be satisfactory to you?
19:13:53 >> I think he'd be getting closer.
19:13:55 We are going to need to see that on the site plan.
19:13:58 It's rather difficult where you say I can put one here.
19:14:01 I need to measure that out with a scale to say it's
19:14:05 I would hate for us to say put them in there and then
19:14:08 we drive by the site and those plants are dead.
19:14:11 Other thing he mentioned was the fencing.
19:14:13 And that is not shown on the site plan anywhere.
19:14:15 I do want to be very clear on that.
19:14:17 That needs to be clearly delineated on that site plan,
19:14:20 where the fence, what type of fence it is.
19:14:22 Is it a knee wall with wrought iron on top?
19:14:26 Is it just wrought iron?
19:14:27 That is controlled when you go into a site plan
19:14:30 controlled zoning district.
19:14:31 So we do need more details on that.
19:14:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Jammal, go back and sit down with
19:14:37 you and you all need to go through that again and plan
19:14:38 it out.
19:14:39 >> No, ma'am.
19:14:41 >>GWEN MILLER: How you going to find out -- so you want
19:14:42 to put it on the plan?
19:14:43 So when you going to do it?
19:14:45 >> Between first and second reading?
19:14:47 >> That was one of our statements on the revision
19:14:49 But when this was originally submitted, there wasn't
19:14:51 any fencing even on lot one.
19:14:53 I have a set of pictures we took before we went to DRC,
19:14:57 there is fencing out there.
19:14:59 That's when it came to our attention there was no
19:15:02 fencing on the site plan coming before you.
19:15:04 So we needed to get that on the revision sheet and get
19:15:06 Mr. Jammal to take care of that.
19:15:09 >>GWEN MILLER: So we can do it between first and second
19:15:12 >> I think the fencing in combination with the trees,
19:15:14 probably we would like to sit down and look at before
19:15:16 you went to first reading.
19:15:18 If that's what you're going to be requesting is some
19:15:22 >>GWEN MILLER: So we need to continue this?
19:15:24 Need to be continued?
19:15:25 >> Depending on the desires of Council, yes, ma'am.
19:15:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let's hear from the public.
19:15:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
19:15:35 Finished sir?
19:15:37 Be seated.
19:15:39 Anyone from the public wish to address Council on this
19:15:43 Anyone else?
19:15:49 >> Good evening, Council.
19:15:50 Benjamin Buckley, 1705 state street.
19:15:53 And I'm vice-president of the neighborhood association
19:15:57 I wanted to--I heard councilmember Linda Saul-Sena talk
19:16:04 about what a great job he did.
19:16:06 Mr. Jammal has done a very good job there, with this
19:16:10 cigar factory.
19:16:12 He's done a first class job, I would say, every single
19:16:15 brick in the building has been repointed.
19:16:18 He's going over this building with exceptional detail.
19:16:22 And I wanted everyone to know that.
19:16:25 And I would encourage you all to go look at it and see
19:16:29 what a first class job is.
19:16:30 Secondly, I would, I would encourage the Council to
19:16:37 help Mr. Jammal and the university with this parking
19:16:41 And I'm pleased to, to know that the Council is
19:16:46 concerned about the trees.
19:16:47 We are too in the neighborhood.
19:16:48 And we would like that resolved and the trees planted.
19:16:53 And I'm sure Mr. Jammal is going to do that.
19:16:55 I've seen other projects he's done.
19:16:58 And I have if full confidence that, that he'll do a
19:17:03 good job.
19:17:04 And this neighborhood, this now, the cigar factory has
19:17:10 become kind of a landmark in the neighborhood.
19:17:12 This neighborhood, I have been there 30 years, I used
19:17:14 to live right there on Albany.
19:17:16 And that was well known as cracks Boulevard or whatever
19:17:22 you want to call it.
19:17:23 And it's really exceptional now.
19:17:25 The neighborhood's changed and I hope we can encourage
19:17:28 more people like Mr. Jammal to come in there and do
19:17:32 projects like this.
19:17:33 Thank you.
19:17:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else?
19:17:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think the appropriate thing would
19:17:42 be to continue this to allow Mr. Jammal to redraw the
19:17:49 PD showing more trees and more green space and
19:17:52 indicating the existing fences as well as the proposed
19:17:56 And I think that probably -- this is a question for
19:18:01 Mr. Jammal and staff.
19:18:03 Would 30 days accomplish that?
19:18:04 Would that give you a chance to redraw that or could do
19:18:07 you in it two weeks?
19:18:09 >> I think we could do this between first and second
19:18:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It has the to be really redrawn.
19:18:15 I think it has --
19:18:17 >> Probably redraw in ten minutes.
19:18:19 All we have to do is replicate what we have on location
19:18:21 one and show the wrought iron on location number two.
19:18:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Actually what I had in mind, you
19:18:27 were asking for such a significant waiver in terms of
19:18:30 trees -- you're asking to waive the vast majority of
19:18:36 trees on this site.
19:18:37 And I think if you were to reconfigure the beginning of
19:18:41 your, the closest to the street portion, so you have
19:18:46 more green space and more trees, that would be
19:18:51 >> The trees, the trees will survive and, two inch
19:18:55 trees can survive in these islands.
19:18:57 We have them already on the other side.
19:18:59 And they've survived fine.
19:19:01 We have had them about a year and a half to two years
19:19:04 And we can have in every one of these islands, we can
19:19:07 have trees.
19:19:08 And then once we have two on the south side, and four
19:19:12 on the north side, that's six.
19:19:14 So all we would night is a waiver for one.
19:19:16 We Kevin have three or four more trees along the west
19:19:21 With that section, that little strip of ten foot by
19:19:24 95 feet, we could put four more trees, five more trees.
19:19:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I think staff is saying they want
19:19:29 to sit down and look at it and make sure that you have
19:19:32 the right size trees and the right space diameter and
19:19:36 all that.
19:19:37 I think that's what Miss Feeley is talking about.
19:19:40 I guess it's going to take more than two weeks to do
19:19:42 that is what I'm hearing, is that right?
19:19:46 Miss Feeley, can you come to the mike please, get it on
19:19:49 the record?
19:19:52 >> Two weeks would be a morning hearing?
19:19:58 Would be June 24th, I believe.
19:20:00 Would be the next morning hearing that we cold come
19:20:04 Because the next one would be June 3rd and I don't feel
19:20:07 comfortable with June 3rd, really that is only four
19:20:10 days to look at this.
19:20:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We said.
19:20:14 >>GWEN MILLER: June are 4th would be fine.
19:20:16 >> You don't, your meeting, your next meeting is
19:20:19 June 3rd.
19:20:20 Then not again.
19:20:22 >> The next night meeting one June 10th?
19:20:25 >> The next night meeting is June 10th.
19:20:28 >>GWEN MILLER: That time enough?
19:20:30 >> I believe we could probably bring it back to you by
19:20:33 If Mr. Jammal could get it to us probably by mid week
19:20:36 next week.
19:20:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilmember Dingfelder and
19:20:41 councilmember Saul-Sena.
19:20:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm fine with that.
19:20:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My motion would be to continue this
19:20:49 till June 10th.
19:20:50 But Mr. Jammal, you really need to work to get as many
19:20:53 trees as possible to meet the required number of trees.
19:20:56 We're much more interested in having the trees planted,
19:20:59 particularly shade trees, than having an in lieu fee.
19:21:03 We really would like the shade.
19:21:05 Because the interstate is going to have a tremendous
19:21:07 heat gain.
19:21:08 And to protect the neighborhood as much as possible,
19:21:13 the trees are so important.
19:21:16 >> I agree with that.
19:21:17 And it's cheaper to plant the trees than to pay the
19:21:21 [ Laughter ]
19:21:22 >> But we have been going back and forth on this.
19:21:26 Since January.
19:21:27 Prior to January, three months before that.
19:21:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
19:21:31 Well, the motion is that you meet with staff, work out
19:21:35 the details on fencing, right?
19:21:37 And the trees.
19:21:38 Those are the two outstanding items.
19:21:40 Then come back June 10th.
19:21:44 >> If I can just inquire.
19:21:45 Do you agree with that continuance?
19:21:47 Because you have a right to have a vote tonight.
19:21:49 But you understand where Council is coming from.
19:21:52 And suggest a continuance.
19:21:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You have a right for us to take a vote,
19:21:57 but I'm going to tell you now, you'll lose tonight.
19:22:00 You have that right.
19:22:02 I'm just telling you.
19:22:04 >> Is it then you agree to the continuance, sir?
19:22:07 >> Of course, after that comment.
19:22:08 [ Laughter ]
19:22:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The motion and second, all in favor
19:22:15 signify by saying aye.
19:22:18 >> Thank you.
19:22:21 >> Motion carried.
19:22:22 Mr. Chairman, was that until June tenth?
19:22:25 >> June 10th, yes.
19:22:27 >> 6:00 p.m.?
19:22:29 >> Yes.
19:22:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And that will be first reading when
19:22:34 it comes back.
19:22:55 >> Abbye Feeley, land development.
19:22:58 Next item on your agenda is Z 10-08, located at 227
19:23:02 North Meridian Avenue.
19:23:04 The request before you this evening is to rezone from
19:23:07 CD-3, which is the Channel District site plan
19:23:11 controlled district, back to a CD-1, which is the
19:23:16 Euclidian district in the Channel District.
19:23:19 This was previously site plan controlled for a
19:23:26 residential tower.
19:23:27 With multifamily retail office, restaurant and
19:23:31 commercial general uses, which is to go tonight to the
19:23:35 CD-1, which allows for a multitude of uses, including
19:23:39 warehouse and hotel trade, which I believe Mr. Horne
19:23:42 will speak to you about.
19:23:44 >> Can I ask a question?
19:23:52 >> Good evening, again, members of Council, Tony
19:23:56 Garcia, Planning Commission staff.
19:23:58 I see my audience has dwindled a little bit.
19:24:01 Okay, I have been sworn.
19:24:04 Let me go ahead and show you real quickly.
19:24:07 This is again another one of those central district
19:24:10 This is in specifically the Channel District, which is
19:24:13 on the eastern edge of the downtown core.
19:24:15 As we all know.
19:24:16 Sandwiched in between Ybor to the north and of course
19:24:19 CBD to the west.
19:24:21 Let me show you an aerial.
19:24:23 Here's a grand central project.
19:24:26 This was the beginning of the Slade project right over
19:24:29 here, which we all know is complete and looks very
19:24:32 A very nice district to the Channel District.
19:24:34 Here's the site in question.
19:24:35 When this came to you all, it was approved a couple
19:24:39 years ago for a tower.
19:24:41 I think goes up to approximately 480 feet.
19:24:43 That would have been one of the tallest structures in
19:24:46 the Channel District.
19:24:47 So right at the intersection of Meridian and Kennedy.
19:24:54 So, this would have been one of the gateways into the
19:24:58 Channel District.
19:25:00 This was CD-1, went to CD-3, now it's coming back to
19:25:03 you again to go back to its original state of CD-1.
19:25:06 Is the last use -- land use category, before I get the
19:25:10 into the various categories.
19:25:11 Still going under a process of course because of the
19:25:14 economy and everything, we know that a lot of these
19:25:16 properties have been distressed and some of them have
19:25:20 either gone into receivership or none have been
19:25:23 developed at all.
19:25:23 Especially these larger properties to the north that
19:25:26 have already been approved for some really nice
19:25:28 development that unfortunately we haven't been able to
19:25:30 see materialize.
19:25:31 But that being the case, we do know that what still
19:25:35 exists is a little bit of a hodgepodge of warehouses,
19:25:39 such as what currently exist over here an there are a
19:25:41 couple other warehouse uses directly to the east, as
19:25:44 one goes along Kennedy to Channelside drive.
19:25:48 And there's still a couple warehouse uses also on this
19:25:52 north side of Twiggs.
19:25:54 We are still seeing evidence of that and still some
19:25:57 distressed properties along Meridian, which is
19:26:02 unfortunately one of our major gateways leading up into
19:26:05 Harbour Island.
19:26:06 That being said.
19:26:08 Let me go ahead and show you what the land use
19:26:11 categories are.
19:26:11 Most of the land use categories in the regional, levy
19:26:17 industrial uses, still along the northern part, channel
19:26:19 side drive and where Twiggs is at, some heavy
19:26:25 industrial land use category.
19:26:26 Basically the applicant is asking to revert back to wag
19:26:31 they are, I guess they're able to generate cash flow
19:26:33 with whatever the present businesses is there, which
19:26:36 deals with outdoor storage, which requires CI use,
19:26:40 which I believe is why they are coming back for CD-1.
19:26:43 There are issues with buffering and screening that
19:26:45 they're going to have to deal with because of the
19:26:47 nature of the business itself.
19:26:48 So I think that's going to be one of your main
19:26:51 But as far as the requested use under the CD-1, it is
19:26:55 consistent with the CI, what was presently there, or
19:26:58 previously there.
19:26:59 I think they had an LI use that was there.
19:27:01 But now they went to go to CI use to the reflect the
19:27:04 business currently going on.
19:27:06 Planning Commission staff requests consistent with
19:27:09 comprehensive plan as it lays underlying land use.
19:27:13 And property was previously CD-1 to begin with.
19:27:28 >> Abbye Feeley, land development.
19:27:30 I think the request before you is clear.
19:27:32 Once you go to a site plan controlled district, unless
19:27:36 that use isn't allowable use on that district, up
19:27:39 conditions have that use.
19:27:40 That's one of the reason why the applicant is before
19:27:42 you this evening.
19:27:43 The site contains 40,851 square feet.
19:27:47 And the existing use is a port related warehouse,
19:27:50 wholesale trade business.
19:27:52 Surrounded by industrial to the south.
19:27:54 Mixed use residential commercial to the east and north.
19:27:57 Going to show this to you.
19:27:58 No waivers can be granted with this.
19:28:00 No conditions either.
19:28:01 It's like if we were going back to a CG or CI district.
19:28:05 They will have to meet all code provisions.
19:28:07 If this were approved this evening, they would then go
19:28:09 through a change of use to establish that use on the
19:28:12 In which the open storage requirements for buffering
19:28:15 and screening would be required.
19:28:16 Let me go ahead and show you where we are.
19:28:22 As Tony said, and what you have down here are a lot of
19:28:31 I think one night a couple years ago we did five of
19:28:34 these in an evening.
19:28:35 We went till close to 2:00 a.m.
19:28:37 This is the Slade, that CD-3 there, with Kennedy to the
19:28:42 north, Meridian to the west.
19:28:44 Washington to the south.
19:28:46 I think Tony showed you a great aerial.
19:28:52 Here is one with grand central to the north.
19:28:55 The Slade.
19:28:56 Mostly finished here.
19:28:58 Wrapping the building.
19:28:59 And 11th over to the east, Meridian, Jackson street.
19:29:02 The pick the tour of the site standing at the corner of
19:29:12 the grand central, looking south.
19:29:20 This is looking east.
19:29:21 Across Meridian.
19:29:24 The existing warehouse structure that is on-site.
19:29:29 And that's the rear of the property.
19:29:32 This is looking east toward the Slade.
19:29:37 Just a picture of the Slade I thought pretty cool.
19:29:44 Brought one in.
19:29:46 Came out really nice.
19:29:48 This is looking east on Kennedy.
19:29:53 That's grand central.
19:29:55 Bottom grand of grand central, here's a different look
19:30:01 Looking back west.
19:30:03 And the linear type park, that runs along Meridian,
19:30:09 because are at the southeast corner of Kennedy and
19:30:13 Which is looking back into downtown.
19:30:16 As Mr. Garcia pointed out, there are other warehouse
19:30:22 uses that are still present within the Channel
19:30:25 Which I believe Miss Anthony referenced in her report
19:30:31 and found this use consistent.
19:30:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question, Miss Feeley.
19:30:39 And it's about the Channel District and design
19:30:42 It's my understanding that we have adopted design
19:30:45 guidelines for the Channel District.
19:30:47 So the question I have is, if this property lost its
19:30:53 grandfathered status because it changed.
19:30:56 It changed to a CBD-3.
19:30:58 Now it's trying to go back to a CBD-1--CD?
19:31:04 Throwing in an extra letter there.
19:31:06 Anyway, as it morphs back into something else, would
19:31:11 whatever's on there be subject to the Channel District
19:31:14 design guidelines?
19:31:17 >> Typically when you have, in this case, it's not a
19:31:20 vacant lot.
19:31:20 So you have an existing nonconforming structure that is
19:31:24 on the lot.
19:31:25 Typically conformance or compliance with the district
19:31:28 standards is usually when you are undergoing a major
19:31:31 renovation, which is 51% of the assessed value of the
19:31:35 I don't believe they're going to be making any
19:31:37 modifications where they're going to trigger compliance
19:31:40 at this time.
19:31:40 Since, if it were to be destroyed in excess of 75% and
19:31:45 built back, then they would be required to comply.
19:31:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay, this is my question.
19:31:50 What I saw in the photographs that you showed us,
19:31:53 appeared to be a chain link fence with some canvas
19:31:56 behind it and a sign saying we buy or sell cars.
19:31:59 I can't imagine that that's is in compliance with the
19:32:05 design guidelines.
19:32:06 So therefore, my question is, if we grant this zoning,
19:32:11 does that legitimize what's there?
19:32:16 >> It will make the use conforming.
19:32:18 Which is the warehouse use.
19:32:21 But this does not comply with our open storage
19:32:24 So they're first going to trigger the open storage
19:32:27 requirements for the use that they're proposing, which
19:32:29 is going to be other screening than this chain link.
19:32:33 It is going to be a wall.
19:32:34 That they're going to be required when they go through
19:32:37 change of use, they are going to be required to buffer,
19:32:40 according to 27138, which requires a wall.
19:32:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What about signage?
19:32:48 >> And they will need to comply with 20.5 as well.
19:32:51 I am not to say the photos I showed you have legal
19:32:54 signage on them.
19:32:55 I went out to the site at that time.
19:32:57 This site is currently under citation and it could be
19:32:59 that they are under citation for their signage as well.
19:33:02 I don't typically review or speak to that when we look
19:33:05 at the rezoning and requested uses that are
19:33:08 This site is going to be required to go through a chain
19:33:11 of use.
19:33:11 It is going to be required to comply with provision of
19:33:15 code, which includes signage, open storage, parking.
19:33:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: With the proposed land use change
19:33:20 allow a surface parking lot or, or used car sales?
19:33:28 >> It does not allow for a car sales lot.
19:33:31 Which is not way believe, this is a wholesale.
19:33:35 These cars come in, they go out on boats to be
19:33:37 dismantled in other countries through the port is what
19:33:41 my understanding of this use on the property.
19:33:44 I'll let Mr. Horner speak to that.
19:33:47 Let me just check the CD-1 for the surface parking,
19:33:50 which I don't believe.
19:33:50 But auto sales, typical sales lot like Honda, Toyota,
19:33:55 would not be allowed there.
19:33:57 >> Or retail.
19:33:59 >> Right.
19:33:59 We can't walk up and buy a car there.
19:34:01 That is not a permitted use.
19:34:03 So let me just double-check that chart for you while
19:34:05 Mr. Horner is making his presentation.
19:34:07 I can get back with you on that.
19:34:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
19:34:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?
19:34:12 Mr. Horner?
19:34:16 >> Chairman and Council, thank you.
19:34:17 Good evening, I'm Michael Horner, 14052 North Dale
19:34:21 Mabry Highway.
19:34:22 I have been sworn.
19:34:23 Representing the owner/applicant, Calderazzo family, BC
19:34:29 Management, Inc.
19:34:29 Mr. Chairman, quite honestly, this petition comes to
19:34:30 you with unanimous recommendations of approval,
19:34:32 consistency findings from the Planning Commission.
19:34:35 They have no objections from the review agencies.
19:34:37 And if you look in your report, you can see that on
19:34:40 every single point, would be consistent with the review
19:34:46 criteria for the CD-1 district requested.
19:34:49 However, I was made aware of an e-mail that was sent
19:34:53 out earlier this week, I think Council was copied on
19:34:57 Then I saw a couple people coming in and I realized we
19:35:00 may have some opposition tonight.
19:35:01 So allow me to make just a brief presentation.
19:35:03 So we can get some documents filed into the record.
19:35:07 My client is Calderazzo family, as I indicated.
19:35:12 Unfortunately, bill Calderazzo is out of state.
19:35:17 He was here for the May 13th for example hearing.
19:35:19 It was bumped to tonight.
19:35:20 Wishes he could have been here to present his case
19:35:23 He's very passionate about this.
19:35:26 Channelside district.
19:35:27 He's been a player in there from day one.
19:35:30 Been all the committees, all the reviews, threw his hat
19:35:33 in the ring.
19:35:34 Owned this property since 1983.
19:35:35 So no one was more excited to have this approval in
19:35:39 19 -- excuse me, 2007 for the high rise than my client.
19:35:44 For obvious reasons.
19:35:45 Everybody wins.
19:35:46 The city wins, tax ad valorem revenue, beautiful
19:35:49 building gets constructed.
19:35:50 My client would have made significant amount of money.
19:35:53 That market did not materialize, unfortunately.
19:35:55 So, tonight, we're here to go back down that ladder.
19:36:00 Everybody pushed us up.
19:36:01 Everybody indicated this is what the new direction of
19:36:03 the Channelside district.
19:36:05 We were all excited.
19:36:06 No one more so than my client.
19:36:08 With me tonight is Scott Calderazzo.
19:36:11 Bill's son is going to speak to you briefly after I
19:36:13 complete my comments.
19:36:14 We're seeking the CD-1.
19:36:17 It's a non-site plan binding district.
19:36:20 It's been in place for years.
19:36:21 My clients had that zoning for years.
19:36:23 My clients had this use under ownership, as I
19:36:27 indicated, since 1983.
19:36:28 It has been continuously used for CI type open storage,
19:36:32 manufacturing uses because it was zoned M-1 many years
19:36:37 ago, the most intensive zoning district in the City of
19:36:39 Tampa since the 1920s.
19:36:41 In fact, the initial Tampa railroad cars were
19:36:44 fabricated and constructed on this site.
19:36:46 Mr. Dingfelder, do you have a comment?
19:36:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I just have a question when you're
19:36:53 >> So we went through that approval process, my clients
19:36:56 were excited.
19:36:58 That plan was approved.
19:37:00 It was ZO, I want to say ZO-738.
19:37:04 That was documented in your plan backup materials for
19:37:11 Meridian place.
19:37:12 It was 425 feet in height.
19:37:14 Approximately 10,000 square feet of retail, boutique,
19:37:21 38 stories and about 259 units.
19:37:26 The majority of that building was on my client's
19:37:29 Extensions were granted under the options.
19:37:32 Another extension was granted for the options.
19:37:34 This was after the mad rush in 2000 to 2000 -- when was
19:37:40 Then about 2006, Council, I think everybody saw the
19:37:43 writing on the wall.
19:37:44 The clients that put this property under option were
19:37:49 with still believing the market would be accepting and
19:37:53 accommodating and would absorb those kind of units and
19:37:57 that development.
19:37:57 They tried a third option extension, then the bank said
19:38:00 you're shut down.
19:38:01 We are not going to finance any condominium projects in
19:38:05 the city.
19:38:06 So for that reason, my client reverted back to what
19:38:09 this property has been used for for the last 80, 90
19:38:13 And that is open storage, CI type development.
19:38:16 As Miss Feeley indicated, it's true.
19:38:18 This is not a used car sales lot.
19:38:20 You don't walk in.
19:38:21 You don't buy a used car.
19:38:23 This is a wholesale distribution facility.
19:38:27 This is completely regulated under the port of Tampa
19:38:31 for their import-export operations.
19:38:35 This is certainly a port-related use.
19:38:37 The cars are retained, purchased and then shipped to
19:38:40 the port and shipped primarily to South America.
19:38:42 Or they're sold to other secondary markets, scrap
19:38:46 metal, part markets.
19:38:48 They certainly are not torn apart here.
19:38:50 No fabrication, no assembly, no welding, no breaking
19:38:55 apart of the parts.
19:38:56 The vehicles are not sold piecemeal.
19:39:00 As they come in, they are shipped out.
19:39:03 It's a busy operation.
19:39:05 If you go there any day, you'll see cars pulling in
19:39:08 with trucks, loading them in, loading them out.
19:39:11 Pretty efficient operation.
19:39:12 Six employees.
19:39:13 Who depend on income, the families, food, the children,
19:39:16 school tuition.
19:39:18 These people are also residents of Tampa.
19:39:19 So what have we asked for?
19:39:22 We have asked for essentially the same district that's
19:39:25 existed for years.
19:39:26 The use has not changed.
19:39:29 The use is still same type of use that's been there for
19:39:33 a number of years.
19:39:34 Whether it says CR auto or caterpillar machinery,
19:39:39 operation was there for some years, aluminum
19:39:42 manufacturer was there for some years.
19:39:44 Other more intensive, light industrial operations.
19:39:48 This tenant has been there for the last year.
19:39:51 We have had no complaints.
19:39:51 I'm here to tell you, my office has not received one
19:39:55 call, with the exception of a courtesy call from Ken
19:39:58 Stoltenberg, developer of Grand Central.
19:40:02 Ken called me up and said you know, I just had some
19:40:05 Let's sit down and take a quick look at your plan and
19:40:08 see what your thoughts are and Larry my concerns.
19:40:10 We had a meeting this week, pleasant meeting.
19:40:13 We appreciated his time.
19:40:14 And he said going up the ladder might be tough once you
19:40:17 go down the ladder.
19:40:18 You might want to think about that.
19:40:19 A good thought.
19:40:20 My client has to pay taxes.
19:40:22 My client does not want to pad lack Loch this business
19:40:26 My client does not want to have another vacant being
19:40:30 blighted light in the City of Tampa.
19:40:32 In a perfect world, you would just wait five to 10
19:40:36 years, somehow come up with the taxes, somehow come up
19:40:40 with the property maintenance and the upkeep and hope
19:40:42 another Donald trump comes into town and says we are
19:40:45 going to give you a gazillion dollars and did a two
19:40:49 hundred story building.
19:40:50 Those days are not going to be coming here any time
19:40:52 soon, from what I'm hearing in the market criteria and
19:40:55 lending criteria.
19:40:56 In the meantime, if there's any developer that is
19:40:58 interested in my client's property, he is more than
19:41:01 willing to back zone to the CD-3 district or retain it.
19:41:06 It's been under brokerage agreements.
19:41:08 It's been discussed, it's been reviewed.
19:41:10 We will have consultant after consultant.
19:41:14 No one is interested in buying this problem.
19:41:16 Only tenant interested in using this property are those
19:41:19 related to the port.
19:41:20 We have tried to be good neighbors.
19:41:22 When Ken indicated gosh, Jim was a little concerned
19:41:25 about what it looked like.
19:41:26 My clients ran out, and put up the blue fabric.
19:41:29 That entire screening along the Meridian frontage and
19:41:33 Kennedy frontage.
19:41:34 When they said some of the cars seemed to be pulled a
19:41:36 little on the sidewalk and the gates open.
19:41:38 Client says lets take care of that.
19:41:41 Gates closed.
19:41:41 Went out there, every other week, pressure washed all
19:41:44 the sidewalks.
19:41:45 There's no oil stains.
19:41:46 Walk by there now, pretty nice looking sidewalk.
19:41:49 My clients also agree to come back and on the Meridian
19:41:52 side, paint, pressure wash and repair some of those
19:41:55 blocks so when you pull -- let's admit it, it is
19:41:59 gateway to the channel side district.
19:42:01 You come off that Kennedy bridge, it's right there
19:42:03 front and center.
19:42:04 He's agreed to try to make that look as attractive and
19:42:07 As Abbye said, this district requires nor allows any
19:42:11 We don't have a choice.
19:42:12 It's a tough nut to crack for my client.
19:42:15 He only gets certain amount of rent.
19:42:18 Has to pay taxes, operating expenses.
19:42:20 But my client has agreed he'll have to go through that
19:42:23 a change of use plan.
19:42:24 He has to agree to the screening.
19:42:27 Those agree to the buffering, landscaping, whatever it
19:42:29 takes to keep his income stream coming in at a bare
19:42:33 So they can at least stay level with inflation.
19:42:36 My client is not in a position to padlock this and
19:42:39 leave it vacant for five to 10 years and wait for
19:42:41 another developer to offer him a high rise contract.
19:42:45 You know, I went to a seminar Miss Saul-Sena, how many
19:42:53 times we heard Andre speak.
19:42:54 And I think it was American planning association
19:42:58 I want to say the Orlando meeting some years ago.
19:43:01 And the number one contributing factor to urban polite
19:43:07 and decay, everybody thought, we all raised our hands
19:43:10 and said drug dealing, and loitering and gangs.
19:43:16 And the number one contributing factor is vacant
19:43:20 That's why in all his urban redesign in the central
19:43:24 city areas, he stresses doing something on the sidewalk
19:43:30 Screening, screening the empty door front, the window
19:43:34 And allowing activity, because when you walk between
19:43:38 beautiful building front, beautiful building front, sea
19:43:42 side, seaport.
19:43:43 And then you have a vacant blur of building, it sure
19:43:46 takes away that synergy.
19:43:48 It would be a shape if going up that ladder, now coming
19:43:51 back down that my client ironically, the very, the very
19:43:55 man who says I'm throwing my hat in the ring, I believe
19:43:57 in the Channelside district, and then that was pulled
19:44:00 out from under him.
19:44:02 Now he's stuck with a real dilemma.
19:44:04 I believe in Channelside district.
19:44:07 I want the CD-3 district.
19:44:09 It expires no two years.
19:44:10 Who's going to come and close on the project?
19:44:13 No one.
19:44:13 How do I maintain this property?
19:44:15 I have a tenant in there that's responsible, tries to
19:44:19 take care of his business.
19:44:20 That has his family, pays their taxes and import taxes,
19:44:24 tries to be a good neighbor.
19:44:26 And hopefully, hopefully this time will change.
19:44:30 And we'll have a project there that everybody aspires
19:44:34 When you look at the building, and you think this would
19:44:37 have been probably one of the highest, tallest
19:44:40 skyscraper structures in the Channelside district.
19:44:43 It's beautiful.
19:44:47 Meridian place.
19:44:49 425 feet tall.
19:44:50 And I just, you know, my client and I went through all
19:44:55 the contracts.
19:44:55 I said wow, this was your dream.
19:44:57 This was the fruition of your entire desire and holing
19:45:01 this property from 1983.
19:45:02 Everybody else is pretty fortunate.
19:45:04 They tapped into that market just a little bit prior to
19:45:06 the collapse in 2005 and 2006.
19:45:09 Lending markets.
19:45:10 Unfortunately, that day has passed.
19:45:12 My client has agreed to do whatever it takes, he just
19:45:17 wants to keep what he's had and what with has been on
19:45:20 this property since the 1920s.
19:45:22 If it takes additional meetings, I was apprised when I
19:45:27 saw this e-mail because no one called my office.
19:45:30 We sent those letters out in early April.
19:45:32 And I just said, whoever wants to discuss this project,
19:45:36 meet with our clients, talk about what's happening.
19:45:38 What our thoughts are, our plans.
19:45:40 Call us.
19:45:41 Never heard a thing until I saw this e-mail.
19:45:44 It's ironic on the e-mail it talks about a comparison
19:45:47 between a used car lot, car sales I think it's
19:45:50 referenced, and a planned development high rise tower.
19:45:54 Well, I respectfully disagree, Council.
19:45:59 The true challenge that you're facing tonight is not
19:46:05 That's done.
19:46:05 There is no high rise.
19:46:06 The question is, is it an ongoing business with
19:46:12 employees in an area of commerce that's contributing to
19:46:15 the tax base, that's productive, that puts people to
19:46:19 work in a tough economy, or is vacated structure,
19:46:24 padlocked gates, weeds growing through the sidewalks.
19:46:28 No one's going to go out there and pressure wash it
19:46:31 like my client.
19:46:32 That's the challenge.
19:46:33 That's the comparison.
19:46:33 That's the tradeoff.
19:46:35 And I submit to you, the last thing Channelside
19:46:37 district need is another vacant blighted structure
19:46:40 closed down business.
19:46:42 We appreciate your time.
19:46:43 Be happy to answer any questions.
19:46:44 Can I have Scott speak also.
19:46:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let him finish the presentation.
19:46:53 Then take questions.
19:46:54 How much time they have left?
19:46:58 >> Approximately two and a half minutes.
19:47:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Two and a half minutes.
19:47:02 >> Scott Calderazzo, 104 east Fowler.
19:47:06 My father bought that building 27 years ago.
19:47:08 He had a partner, they ran a successful business out of
19:47:10 there for years.
19:47:11 When they came in, to do Channelside, he agreed.
19:47:14 We were very happy about it.
19:47:16 We moved all our stuff so they could take down the
19:47:18 bridge from Kennedy.
19:47:19 We worked any way we could.
19:47:21 Then finally, we got somebody that wanted to bite.
19:47:26 We had a Dr. of course that fell through.
19:47:28 We had to decide how to keep our building, how to pay
19:47:31 our taxes, how to maintain it.
19:47:33 We tried to go with the least effected tenant.
19:47:38 We thought we had CD-3.
19:47:40 We interpreted that as once the site plan is pulled,
19:47:43 then it changed zoning.
19:47:45 We did not know that at the time.
19:47:46 But we still tried to go with the least effective
19:47:50 Instead of going with automotive repair, we went this,
19:47:53 because it wasn't customers coming out.
19:47:55 Wasn't a lot of noise.
19:47:56 They weren't out there making a mess.
19:47:57 Jim called us, they were unhappy.
19:48:00 I went over there.
19:48:01 I promised them within a week I would have screening
19:48:04 About four days later I had that done.
19:48:06 Like Michael Horner said, we have the cleaned up, done
19:48:09 everything we possibly can to keep them happy.
19:48:11 We'll do anything in the future.
19:48:13 We're just trying to keep paying our taxes and keep our
19:48:16 building going.
19:48:16 It's not going to look good as an empty building.
19:48:19 When my father bought it, they had it remodeled and
19:48:22 moved the vagrants out.
19:48:24 He was there when everybody else was leaving.
19:48:26 We didn't just coming running in two years ago and try
19:48:30 to make a bunch of money and buy a gold mine.
19:48:32 We were there.
19:48:33 We were very happy to see it go up.
19:48:35 Hopefully, we can get our rezoning back.
19:48:38 I believe it goes back in two years anyway, is my
19:48:42 It would be a lot easier to survive the next two years
19:48:45 if we had income coming in.
19:48:47 We'll do whatever it takes to make everybody happy.
19:48:49 Thank you.
19:48:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
19:48:52 Councilmember Dingfelder?
19:48:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Real quick.
19:48:56 This is all a little confusing, if they have existing
19:49:05 structure there, you know, that sort of thing, can they
19:49:10 not operate it without going back to the CD-1?
19:49:14 >> Julie coal, two issues is, one is the actual
19:49:18 structure, which I think Abbye has is a legal
19:49:21 nonconforming structure.
19:49:23 So that structure can remain in that location until
19:49:26 it's destroyed 75%.
19:49:28 The use question.
19:49:29 I don't know that anybody's ever answer lysed what the
19:49:32 existing use was prior to the zoning versus what would
19:49:36 then be considered legal nonconforming use once you
19:49:39 change the zoning classification.
19:49:40 When that zoning classification changed, any use on
19:49:43 that property that had been in existence would retain a
19:49:45 legal nonconforming status.
19:49:46 But I don't know what that use was and what that legal
19:49:51 nonconformity then would remain.
19:49:53 So I can't answer what it is, but they should have the
19:49:57 right to at least have asked that question, what that
19:50:01 legal nonconformity is.
19:50:03 There may be reasons they don't want to retain it as a
19:50:06 legal nonconformity and the only way to make it
19:50:09 conforming would be to change the zoning
19:50:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
19:50:13 Mr. Horner?
19:50:16 >> Yes, sir?
19:50:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So, that leads to the next question.
19:50:21 Which is, you've provided a lot of what, but I'm
19:50:25 curious of why?
19:50:27 Is it a function of taxes?
19:50:28 Do you pay more taxes on a CD-3?
19:50:31 Than a CD-1?
19:50:33 Might be a possibility.
19:50:35 I don't know.
19:50:35 Or what is the underlying issue?
19:50:39 I don't get any indication from zoning that they have
19:50:42 been approached about this use, the use issue.
19:50:45 Whether or not the use was potentially grandfathered
19:50:49 So the bottom line is, why?
19:50:52 The other question is, and this is more for Linda and
19:50:55 Gwen, is it boutique?
19:50:58 Or boutique?
19:51:01 [ Laughter ]
19:51:01 Just kidding.
19:51:03 Mike and I are old friends and I can tease him.
19:51:10 >> You know, the use has been ongoing for the last
19:51:15 The problem, Mr. Dingfelder, is that at the time, the
19:51:19 CD-3 was actually approved, July 9th of 2007.
19:51:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I remember.
19:51:24 I was here.
19:51:25 >> It was an aluminum manufacturing business.
19:51:28 Much more intense than the current operation.
19:51:30 So, in retrospect, had we known the market would have
19:51:39 collapsed, my client would have said keep the aluminum
19:51:42 manufacturing business in place for the next two and a
19:51:45 half, three years.
19:51:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But I'm not saying --
19:51:49 >> So we have lost that.
19:51:51 >> But my question, have you specifically asked zoning
19:51:54 for an opinion on, on this issue?
19:51:59 Our legal staff just indicated there is some sort of
19:52:03 citation going on.
19:52:05 >> Currently under cry station for open storing in site
19:52:09 plan planned development high rise.
19:52:11 We sat down with Cathy Coyle and said, Cathy, war our
19:52:15 We have been cited.
19:52:16 We have been cited because the nonconforming use,
19:52:20 became legal nonconforming on July 9, 2007, has vacated
19:52:25 the premises some years ago.
19:52:26 My client assumed that until a CO is issued on the new
19:52:31 permit, it wasn't formally rezoned to CD-3.
19:52:34 They thought they were still zoned CD 1.
19:52:37 Anyone, it's an illegal use.
19:52:39 It's been cited.
19:52:40 What does my client want to do?
19:52:42 Keep the tenants there and even a tenant that's less
19:52:45 impacting than was there in July of 2007.
19:52:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So, Abbye, so bottom line, they have
19:52:53 had this conversation with miss Coyle, you are familiar
19:52:55 with, you're aware of that?
19:52:57 >> I am not familiar of the conversation.
19:52:59 I'm sorry.
19:53:00 We counsel so many people.
19:53:02 But I do follow the complete logic of what Mr. Horner
19:53:05 is presenting.
19:53:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So today's opinion, tonight's
19:53:08 opinion the fact that that greater use, the more
19:53:11 intensive use of whatever it was, aluminum
19:53:14 manufacturing, would not allow this less intensive use?
19:53:18 Or is it the gap in time?
19:53:19 What is it?
19:53:20 >> I believe it's a combination of those two things
19:53:23 right there.
19:53:23 In fact, listening to the chronology, so there was
19:53:27 aluminum manufacturing going on there, which would have
19:53:29 been a manufacturing use, which was allowed under the
19:53:33 This must have been a lapse of use, which on
19:53:36 non-conforming is typically 180 days.
19:53:39 At that point that use would have been lost.
19:53:41 And then to reestablish a use, you could have
19:53:44 reestablished any of the use that is were allowed under
19:53:46 the CD-3 and we would have done a substantial change.
19:53:50 And those uses would have been allowed.
19:53:52 When they went to establish this new use, which was --
19:53:56 there was no continue can United Nations of use of the
19:53:58 aluminum, that is in fact when that would have been
19:54:01 So now in order to legally establish a use on there of
19:54:05 that type, it does need to go back to the CD-1.
19:54:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me follow, Miss Feeley, before you
19:54:14 Mr. Horner said in two years, it revert automatically
19:54:17 back to the?
19:54:20 >> No, no.
19:54:21 On a CD-3, you get -- on any site plan controlled
19:54:25 district, you get five years to substantially construct
19:54:27 that under the site plan that you have.
19:54:29 If you do not, then, you still get the rights and
19:54:34 entitlements that are associated with that site plan
19:54:36 zoning, the thing is that you then have to meet the
19:54:39 code provisions are in place at the time you're
19:54:42 So, PDs do not revert.
19:54:45 Site plan districts do not revert.
19:54:47 They do not expire.
19:54:48 They continue.
19:54:49 The waivers and conditions you've got on there may not
19:54:53 be applicable at the time you finally permit it, which
19:54:56 may in fact cause to you have to rezone again.
19:54:59 To get those waivers again.
19:55:00 But it does not -- it does not expire.
19:55:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Only other thing I wanted to add,
19:55:08 Mr. Horner -- only thing I wanted to add, just for the
19:55:11 record, is we got -- in my book, I'm showing five
19:55:14 e-mails, they're all the same.
19:55:16 E-mail, but it's five different people who expressed
19:55:20 I don't know where they lived exactly, but obviously
19:55:24 they lived in the channel side.
19:55:25 >> I agree.
19:55:26 If I can make one clarification comment.
19:55:29 In speaking with my client, this goose right to
19:55:32 Mr. Dingfelder's question, the hiatus that Abbye
19:55:38 referenced, which where we lost that legal
19:55:40 nonconforming status, occurred when the Slade stepped
19:55:43 in and optioned my client's property.
19:55:46 For during their interim construction, all their
19:55:49 furnishings, all the carpeting samples, all the tile
19:55:51 samples, my client said sure, whatever we can do to
19:55:55 help you guys out, lease it to you for a little bit.
19:55:57 Then the legal nonconforming status was interrupted.
19:56:02 Now to try to reinstate the uses there now triggered
19:56:05 the zoning violation.
19:56:06 The only option we have is rezone back to the CD-1.
19:56:10 Not an easy position.
19:56:11 I think what Scott said is quite helpful and on point.
19:56:15 His parents, family did not fly in to make a quick
19:56:18 killing in the Tampa market and run back out.
19:56:20 They have been here for the long haul.
19:56:22 And this was their time in 2007.
19:56:25 2009, to make what they think reaped those benefits.
19:56:30 And unfortunately just didn't work out.
19:56:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
19:56:32 Any other question by Council?
19:56:35 Anyone from the public wish to address Council?
19:56:37 All right.
19:56:38 A lot of hands.
19:56:39 Come on down.
19:56:44 Before you start, let me ask a question.
19:56:49 How many people in opposition?
19:56:52 Who are in support?
19:56:55 Anybody here in support?
19:56:56 So everybody here is in opposition.
19:57:01 >> I have not been sworn in and I believe some of the
19:57:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else not been sworn in?
19:57:05 Stand and be sworn at this time.
19:57:06 Stand and be sworn.
19:57:08 Raise your right hand.
19:57:11 [Oath administered by Clerk]
19:57:17 >> Bob McDonaugh, City of Tampa, CRA manager for the
19:57:20 Channel District.
19:57:21 A couple corrections to some of the statements
19:57:23 Mr. Horner made.
19:57:25 I had received a number of complaints from people in
19:57:26 the neighborhood.
19:57:27 And went to the tax records to find out who the owners
19:57:30 I spoke with Mr. Calderazzo and told him it was my
19:57:34 understanding this is a phone corporal -- nonconforming
19:57:37 use, outside storage.
19:57:38 Neighbors were not happy and I suggested that, did I
19:57:41 not think it was going to be cure, that perhaps it
19:57:44 would satisfy some of the folks if he put up the
19:57:46 And did he comply with that.
19:57:48 I'm here on behalf of the Channel District CRA advisory
19:57:54 Asked me to appear tonight.
19:57:55 Based on their opinion and the folks that have come to
19:57:59 speak with them and corresponds they have had and phone
19:58:01 calls that the people in the Channel District are
19:58:04 strongly opposed to this.
19:58:05 They feel it's a step back in the improvements they
19:58:08 I think you're aware of the fact, we spent a
19:58:11 considerable amount of money in the last few years
19:58:13 improving the neighborhood.
19:58:14 Getting ready to do improvements to Kennedy Boulevard.
19:58:17 That's with the FDOT right now to make it more
19:58:21 pedestrian friendly roadway, little more attractive.
19:58:24 And many of the folks that have come up to me, because
19:58:27 I'm kind of the suppose person from the neighborhood,
19:58:29 that they feel this is not a positive step for their
19:58:33 neighborhood and they would like Council to consider
19:58:35 Thank you.
19:58:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
19:58:37 Next speaker?
19:58:40 >> Hello, councilmen.
19:58:42 My name is Matthew Midyett.
19:58:45 My brothers and I own the 30,000-foot powerhouse gym
19:58:49 across the street.
19:58:50 I'd like to set the record straight, the Channelside
19:58:53 district is coming back.
19:58:54 And largely in part of our new facility there, I don't
19:58:57 know where Mr. Horner was getting his information.
19:58:59 But, our building is 99% occupied.
19:59:03 Double occupied, ever since we opened up, property
19:59:06 values have stabilized.
19:59:07 We have a dry cleaner in there now.
19:59:09 We have a pour house -- they pour beer and wine.
19:59:14 They have another place over at Channelside over on the
19:59:17 pier over there.
19:59:18 We have Sweetbay that's very, very interested in
19:59:20 opening up in there.
19:59:21 We have a 5,000 sushi and bar and grill opening up
19:59:26 right next to us.
19:59:27 Everyone said the same thing when we came from
19:59:30 We sold our business over there.
19:59:32 We had five powerhouse gyms.
19:59:33 We came over here to Tampa.
19:59:35 Moved our families over here and we were set on opening
19:59:38 something up in downtown.
19:59:39 We investigated, we looked and we found the perfect
19:59:43 Grand Central.
19:59:44 We investigated it.
19:59:46 We found out there's 46,000 car count there.
19:59:49 We have the main artery going into Kennedy and
19:59:53 I'll be quick.
19:59:54 We asked about the lot across the street.
19:59:57 And the first thing that we were told was that it was
20:00:00 going to be a planned development.
20:00:02 More residential.
20:00:03 The place is renting out their units now.
20:00:07 All the units that were down there that didn't sell,
20:00:10 they're being rented out now.
20:00:11 We started off with 300 members.
20:00:13 We have almost 4,000 member.
20:00:15 So I'd ask him, why don't you open up a coffee shop,
20:00:18 sock like that on that corner, and the take advantage
20:00:20 of those 4,000 members.
20:00:22 Sweetbay wants to do it.
20:00:23 All the other businesses that are popping up.
20:00:26 They want that.
20:00:27 They want to capture shows people training there.
20:00:29 Everyone thought we were crazy, and I'm tired of
20:00:32 hearing all the doom and gloom about the Channel
20:00:35 The Channel District is coming back.
20:00:37 We're a part of that and all our members love the club.
20:00:40 You got to understand they bought into that walking to
20:00:42 the, walking to the restaurant.
20:00:44 Walking to the museum.
20:00:45 Walking to the gym.
20:00:46 That's that urban lifestyle.
20:00:47 Now they have to wait for flatbed trucks to go in and
20:00:51 They have to wait for all these cars to be in and out
20:00:54 of there.
20:00:55 That not only does it interrupt them, but you know,
20:00:58 there's been more accidents on that corner.
20:01:00 I know one for a fact that caused three cars from a
20:01:04 gentleman pulling out of their facility, and it caused
20:01:07 three car pileup right there.
20:01:08 I just, I understand these guys have been great and
20:01:12 But you know what, that's not way bought into.
20:01:14 I put $2 million into my facility.
20:01:16 And guess what, the it's paying off.
20:01:18 I don't want to go back.
20:01:19 I want to see that area go forward and develop even
20:01:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
20:01:24 Next speaker?
20:01:27 >> Good evening.
20:01:28 My name is Tony Foley, I live at 1238 East Kennedy
20:01:34 We are very proud of our area.
20:01:36 We're glad of many structures that's been built there.
20:01:39 We were told that it would be a nice area and that's
20:01:42 the reason we bought into the area.
20:01:43 We paid a lot of money.
20:01:45 What we see now in this project that's going up is a
20:01:48 complete eyesore aesthetically.
20:01:51 There has been accidents, as this gentleman alluded to.
20:01:54 The fencing that they have where they put the blue
20:01:58 canvas around seven adds more to the eyesore.
20:02:02 If you're coming off Meridian going into Kennedy, you
20:02:05 have to wait for the flatbed trucks to come in so it's
20:02:07 a problem for us.
20:02:08 And it doesn't go along with what we bought into when
20:02:11 we paid so much money to live there.
20:02:13 Thank you.
20:02:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker?
20:02:18 >> Good evening.
20:02:18 My name is Tray Huffman, 1211 East Cumberland.
20:02:22 I live at the Towers of Channelside, so I'm at the
20:02:25 other end.
20:02:26 This is affecting everybody in Channelside, not just
20:02:29 the people close to that property.
20:02:30 And also a member of powerhouse gym.
20:02:33 I take the walk with down Meridian and it's true, you
20:02:36 have to go around the flatbed trucks.
20:02:39 It's not true there's no oil stains, because there are.
20:02:41 I don't know how much power washing they could do.
20:02:44 They'd have to do it every single day for to it get
20:02:47 But they've ruined the sidewalk, the business is an
20:02:50 It's just -- there's nothing positive about rezoning
20:02:54 this back and letting this business operate.
20:02:56 We need to stay where it is and let the Channelside
20:02:59 district go forward and do what it was designed to do
20:03:03 So I'm definitely opposed to this.
20:03:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker?
20:03:08 >> Good evening, Council.
20:03:09 My name is Glen Counts.
20:03:12 I am a resident of Ventana, it's about a stone throw
20:03:15 away from this property.
20:03:17 I also am the president of the condominium association.
20:03:21 We have about at this point 85% occupancy of unit
20:03:25 owners, so we're doing very well.
20:03:27 We have seen a big change in that community in terms of
20:03:30 the number of people and the quality of people moving
20:03:32 into the area.
20:03:33 We want to continue to see that change.
20:03:35 It really is an eyesore for us.
20:03:37 It's like our backyard.
20:03:39 It would be Akin to having an open car lot of old cars
20:03:44 in the middle of Tampa, Tampa Palms.
20:03:46 It's the same scenario.
20:03:48 It's our community.
20:03:48 It's our home.
20:03:49 Where we take our walks.
20:03:51 It's where we go and have our coffee.
20:03:53 It's where we go to the gym to work out.
20:03:55 This is our place of residents.
20:03:57 It's our backyard.
20:03:59 So, we are strongly, strongly, and I can't say that
20:04:02 enough, opposed to this property.
20:04:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
20:04:07 Thank you very much.
20:04:12 >> My name is Tom Haddock.
20:04:14 I'm also an owner at towers of Channelside.
20:04:18 And when I bought at towers of Channelside, we looked
20:04:22 the area over and were convinced that there would be
20:04:28 positive development through this entire area.
20:04:30 We walked the area.
20:04:32 We drove around.
20:04:33 This is going backwards.
20:04:34 And I know that an awful lot of my neighbors are very
20:04:38 unhappy about this, we're not as close as the Slade or
20:04:43 Ventura, but we're impacted.
20:04:46 And we really strongly oppose this action.
20:04:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
20:04:51 Okay, anyone else?
20:04:59 >> Thank you Mr. Chairman.
20:05:01 I'll be brief.
20:05:01 Mike horner again.
20:05:02 I think Julia said it best.
20:05:05 We are in between a proverbial rock and a hard place.
20:05:09 Who came first?
20:05:10 I think my clients were first.
20:05:12 And anyone buying a tower absolutely, with all that
20:05:16 CD-1, the existing uses and the warehouses and
20:05:20 districts, I would have asked a lot of questions before
20:05:23 sinking those kind of substantial dollars.
20:05:25 Not everyone's a zoning consultant, but a quick phone
20:05:28 call to the city hopefully would have determined that
20:05:30 this use can stay as a legal nonconforming use.
20:05:34 However, it's under zoning violation.
20:05:37 This use might be sun-setted within a few months.
20:05:41 Or a new CBD application under, or new CD-3 application
20:05:46 as substantial change for the existing use, if the CD-3
20:05:50 allowed flexible, we wouldn't be in this dilemma.
20:05:53 It does not.
20:05:54 Now, we have tried to work best with the neighborhood.
20:06:00 My wife and I bought a high rise condominium in
20:06:03 downtown St. Petersburg.
20:06:04 And I looked out the window and I saw parking lot and
20:06:08 some storage vehicles.
20:06:09 Of course the Realtor said don't worry, the it's the
20:06:11 PD, new tower, going to be a beautiful tower.
20:06:14 Pulled the plans, went to the city and realized they
20:06:17 have a legal nonconforming status.
20:06:20 Beautiful place, we loved it.
20:06:22 We bought it.
20:06:22 I feel for the neighbors.
20:06:24 I wish we could make this go away and go back to where
20:06:27 it was before the entire high rise plans.
20:06:29 Think of the resources, the money, the final, the
20:06:33 Everybody was looking for the same gold.
20:06:36 The irony is by my client seeking the very same thing
20:06:39 that these people wanted, he moved himself out of that
20:06:43 arena to allow his flexibility.
20:06:46 I can assure you, had my clients known that by seeking
20:06:49 that rezoning, and not having a guarantee this high
20:06:52 rise would be built, he would have never agreed to it.
20:06:56 In retrospect, they should have added a condition that
20:06:59 existing uses shall be permitted to remain.
20:07:03 We do that in the county.
20:07:04 I think the city would have allowed that as well.
20:07:06 Prior to second reading, it wasn't done.
20:07:09 He just wants to keep his existing tenant.
20:07:12 If we have to agree to continuance, to work with staff
20:07:14 and legal, we are amenable to that.
20:07:16 We have been working with Mr. Mueller and code
20:07:19 violation status, will be stayed.
20:07:22 Happy to meet with the neighbors.
20:07:23 We're at your discretion.
20:07:27 Tell us what you would like us to do.
20:07:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilmember Saul-Sena, then
20:07:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
20:07:33 Years ago, I was a person who named the Channel
20:07:35 District, worked with the city staff to create a plan
20:07:38 for it.
20:07:39 And the original idea was that it was supposed to be a
20:07:43 combination area.
20:07:44 Of residential, entertainment, and port-related uses.
20:07:48 But things evolved.
20:07:50 And it is now primarily a residential area, with great
20:07:54 ancillary office, business and entertainment uses.
20:07:57 And the port uses are primarily focused on the port
20:08:01 And I feel like our responsibility as Councilmembers is
20:08:07 to support the plan that we have adopted.
20:08:10 We have adopted the Channel District plan.
20:08:11 And to support the businesses and individuals who have
20:08:16 invested in this area.
20:08:17 And what's being asked of us today is not, it's not
20:08:23 It's just flat out not compatible.
20:08:25 And based on that I'll make a motion when we close the
20:08:28 public hearing.
20:08:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, councilmember Dingfelder?
20:08:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, in an ideal world, they would
20:08:39 have been thrilled to have this deal consummated, this
20:08:42 high rise built.
20:08:43 We'd all be happy.
20:08:45 And we'd have a lot more tax dollars coming in with all
20:08:49 those, you know, a hundred new apartments there.
20:08:52 Condos, whatever.
20:08:53 But, it's not an ideal world.
20:08:55 So, the reality is, is when, you know, if we just flat
20:09:01 out deny this and tell these folks no, you know, build
20:09:08 this high rise, well, that's not realistic.
20:09:10 That's not going to happen in this market, probably at
20:09:14 least, optimistically, the next five years.
20:09:17 Then the question, okay, we tell them no.
20:09:19 Then they don't have any use.
20:09:20 Then as they describe, the place might get foreclosed.
20:09:25 They might have to walk away from it.
20:09:27 It they can't rent it.
20:09:28 They can't do anything.
20:09:29 And it just becomes a place for vagrants and everything
20:09:37 So I don't think we have accomplished anything by doing
20:09:39 So I like Mr. Horner's idea about a continuance.
20:09:42 A, he can have some discussions with the community,
20:09:45 because now he's aware that there's opposition.
20:09:48 B, he can explore options with our zoning staff.
20:09:52 In regard to the possibility of allowing a very limited
20:09:57 use perhaps.
20:09:58 Amending the CD-3 to allow extremely limited use with a
20:10:02 lot of conditions that maybe he can work out the
20:10:04 conditions with the neighborhood.
20:10:05 But I think just saying no, and I'm speaking to the
20:10:10 neighborhood folks who have come down, we appreciate
20:10:12 you coming down.
20:10:13 But I think just saying you no is not really
20:10:15 accomplishing what you want either.
20:10:17 As my mother would say, sort of biting off your nose to
20:10:21 spite your face.
20:10:22 I never understood what that meant.
20:10:23 But I think it's applicable here.
20:10:25 So, with Mr. Horner's suggestion, I would suggest -- it
20:10:32 doesn't look like you're in any huge hurry because your
20:10:37 enforcement action is abated while this is pending.
20:10:40 So I would suggest about a 60-day break on this to give
20:10:42 everybody a chance to talk and to work with staff.
20:10:46 And come back with a middle ground.
20:10:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilmember Miranda?
20:10:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This whole area has really changed.
20:10:56 Taken time.
20:10:56 I mean, even those good individuals that, that bought
20:11:00 in to the Channelside district in various different
20:11:04 complexes, I can understand the gentleman from
20:11:08 California and his $2 million investment.
20:11:11 But some of these penthouses may be $2 million.
20:11:15 That area there used to be no cruise ships.
20:11:19 Nor aquarium.
20:11:22 No -- excuse me, but St. Pete Times Forum.
20:11:27 Used to be the lightning center.
20:11:29 Used to be an old Coca-Cola both willing plant.
20:11:35 They -- there used to be citrus nitrate in the corner
20:11:40 where the aquarium is at.
20:11:42 They had banana boats, many of them coming in.
20:11:45 And you know what comes with bananas.
20:11:48 A lot of rodents.
20:11:50 So, we used to call that when I was growing up in that
20:11:53 area, la laga, which means the end of the world in nice
20:12:00 [ Laughter ]
20:12:01 I don't want to go specifically good words.
20:12:03 You got the message.
20:12:05 And look what it's at now.
20:12:08 You know, this -- you think you folks are between a
20:12:15 rock and a hard place.
20:12:17 Try these six shoes, pair of shoes.
20:12:20 We're in a rock and a hard place.
20:12:22 I understand what's been said.
20:12:25 I don't know what else can go into C 3, is it?
20:12:31 CD-3, other than a high rise.
20:12:33 I don't know what legitimizes that.
20:12:36 I don't know what type of other -- are you all
20:12:42 discussing C 3?
20:12:44 I don't know what -- I need help in other words to try
20:12:47 to facilitate both sides.
20:12:49 Because I understand -- if I had made an investment
20:12:54 there, based on the future, and I'm not going to
20:12:58 compare to the blowout valve that was never put in the
20:13:02 Gulf for half a million dollars.
20:13:04 That's not the case.
20:13:05 But, we have to protect what we have.
20:13:07 We made this commitment as a city and the Calderazzo
20:13:18 family made a commitment to keep their business there
20:13:22 until this came along.
20:13:24 And I was here in July of 2007, I remember the many
20:13:28 discussions we had versus the diagram and the movement
20:13:31 of the building and the siting and so forth, and the
20:13:36 type of door front and the type of this and the bottom
20:13:39 floor and all that, to have these same aesthetic values
20:13:43 that the others had.
20:13:44 This is like playing the stock market.
20:13:46 Sometimes you buy high and have to sell low.
20:13:53 And very few times you buy low and sell high.
20:13:56 If you play the stock market now, you're better gambler
20:14:02 than I am.
20:14:03 But what goes into C-3 other than high rise?
20:14:12 >>JULIA COLE: CD-3 is a site plan control, like PD.
20:14:16 So whatever is on that site plan, with whatever uses
20:14:19 are within that site plan and how that site plan is put
20:14:21 forward, that descends on this property and that is the
20:14:24 reasoning classification.
20:14:25 So if it's not in there, you're going to have to add it
20:14:29 in there.
20:14:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I was afraid you were going to say
20:14:33 But I had to ask.
20:14:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Because there was retail on the
20:14:36 bottom floor, couldn't that be allowed.
20:14:40 >> First of all, there's no more CD-3.
20:14:42 There's only CD-1 and CD-2.
20:14:45 It's very much like CBD-1 and CBD-2.
20:14:50 The uses permitted are the same.
20:14:52 But in the CD-1, just like in CBD-1, there's intensity
20:14:56 and height regulations.
20:14:58 Once you trigger above those, you have to go to site
20:15:01 planned control district, which is CD-2.
20:15:03 But if you go to the use tables, the uses you could
20:15:06 come back and ask for in site plan control district are
20:15:09 the same uses you could ask for CD-1.
20:15:15 So like in CBD central business district, you can't go
20:15:19 above 120 feet.
20:15:21 But you can have all the same uses that you could when
20:15:25 you go above 120 feet if you want to go out 120, up to
20:15:30 come in with CBD-2, which is site planned control.
20:15:34 Same thing in the channel district.
20:15:35 When you look down the use table for CD-1 and CD-2 and
20:15:39 you see bar and lounges, catering shop, cigar factory
20:15:46 is an allowable use in both CD-1 and CD-2.
20:15:50 Hazardous materials is a special use.
20:15:53 But a heliport is in CD-1 and CD-2.
20:15:56 A kennel is in CD-1.
20:15:58 A marina.
20:15:59 All of the uses are the same.
20:16:01 It's just how those uses are dimensionally and
20:16:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You know, the Trop word was used.
20:16:09 He doesn't look too good on television either.
20:16:13 When that property was -- he doesn't.
20:16:15 I mean, he looks like an arrow hit him from the
20:16:19 But you look at that property at the trump plaza that
20:16:22 was there by the bridge, that's another travesty that
20:16:26 people invested money.
20:16:28 Good hard earned money.
20:16:30 Net money.
20:16:31 And things didn't work out.
20:16:34 >> At this juncture, giving what Abbye has said, given
20:16:37 the fact there's a citation on the property, potential
20:16:40 legal nonconforming use that could be legal conforming,
20:16:42 I'm going to recommend from the legal department's
20:16:45 perspective that we continue this.
20:16:47 If 60 days is too long.
20:16:49 We can do 30 days to sit down and figure out.
20:16:52 I don't want us to do anything that takes away legal
20:16:55 use or potentially puts anybody in jeopardy legally.
20:16:59 My recommendation is we go ahead and have this
20:17:01 continued, unless the petition ser going to object to
20:17:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Looking for a second.
20:17:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We have to take the attorney's word.
20:17:13 I think I understand what Miss Saul-Sena is trying to
20:17:16 Understand what you were trying to do.
20:17:17 I was trying to find out where are we in this?
20:17:20 There's two sides to this.
20:17:22 And I understand one side you -- this doesn't mean that
20:17:27 I am here longer, I have the best right.
20:17:29 No, it doesn't mean that.
20:17:30 Certainly you're not going to do something in the
20:17:32 Channelside or the waterfront now and open up a used
20:17:36 car lot.
20:17:37 Downtown Franklin Street, that's not going to be
20:17:40 What I'm trying to get, that's why I asked that
20:17:42 question, where are we, where are we going?
20:17:44 I got the answer now to hold.
20:17:46 So I yield the floor.
20:17:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I guess the issue becomes though
20:17:49 at no interest, the legal department is recommending to
20:17:52 us a continuance.
20:17:53 In other words, Council, I understand what
20:17:58 councilmember Saul-Sena is saying, but legally saying
20:18:00 to us, before you do anything, we need to do further
20:18:03 analysis and research and that sort of thing to keep,
20:18:06 to protect the city from any legal ramifications.
20:18:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I will second Mr. Dingfelder's
20:18:15 motion for continuance for 30 days.
20:18:17 But I have a really critical question.
20:18:19 When we were, when I was working on the intent of the
20:18:23 Channel District, one of the basic premise says was it
20:18:27 was supposed to be a pedestrian oriented area.
20:18:30 That's one of the reasons why we put in the wide trail
20:18:33 on Meridian.
20:18:34 We wanted to encourage people to walk to bike ride to
20:18:37 And there's nothing like a large flatbed to discourage
20:18:41 pedestrian activity.
20:18:41 So, if we are giving the property owner the courtesy of
20:18:46 30 days to work on this, I think that they need to be
20:18:50 really conscientious about not thwarting the, being,
20:18:57 trying to make their truck activity as unintrusive as
20:19:03 If they want to do stuff, do it on their property.
20:19:06 But not over the sidewalk where it's making the
20:19:08 neighbors endangered and unhappy.
20:19:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We need to hear from Mr. Horner, you
20:19:17 represent the petitioner.
20:19:18 The motion was 60 --
20:19:21 >> 30 is fine.
20:19:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Saying 30 from Councilmember Saul-Sena.
20:19:24 Petitioner, are you amenable for the 30 day
20:19:28 >> Mr. Chairman, again, Michael Horner for the record.
20:19:31 I think 60 days would be helpful because we have a lot
20:19:33 of issues to get on the table.
20:19:35 A lot of design issue, land use matrix review,
20:19:39 nonconforming use timeline.
20:19:41 Unless there's opposition to an of 60 day, I'd like to
20:19:43 do it once and do it the right way.
20:19:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: --
20:19:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Use because I know it is driving the
20:19:55 neighbors crazy and he's buying time.
20:19:59 >> If you want 30, we'll try 30.
20:20:02 >> In all fairness, I think Mr. Horner is trying to
20:20:05 accommodate my schedule.
20:20:06 It's hard for me -- this is a significant legal issue.
20:20:09 I said I could do it in 30 days.
20:20:11 I think Mr. Horner was trying to accommodate me by
20:20:14 giving me 60 days to work through these issues and get
20:20:17 them addressed.
20:20:18 If 30 days is more practical, I'll make time and get it
20:20:21 dealt with.
20:20:22 >> Just to check your calendar, you have less than 30
20:20:25 days till your next evening meeting.
20:20:28 It is the 17th of June.
20:20:29 Is the evening meeting.
20:20:31 And then the next evening meeting is July 22nd.
20:20:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: July 22nd.
20:20:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's my motion.
20:20:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Well, I hope there's an opportunity
20:20:48 for the petitioner to work hard on this prior to that.
20:20:53 And to communicate with the neighborhood about what.
20:20:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I believe Mr. Horner, I think that you
20:20:59 did say you're going to work with the neighborhood,
20:21:01 with the residents to discuss the matter and also leave
20:21:04 any other concerns relative to, I guess flat beds and
20:21:09 blocking Kennedy and all of that.
20:21:11 >> Yes, sir.
20:21:12 They have our contact information.
20:21:13 Be happy to set up a meeting.
20:21:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Very good.
20:21:16 That's a motion.
20:21:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I seconded it.
20:21:18 But I really feel like that there's a world of
20:21:24 opportunities between a very high high-rise and a used
20:21:29 car storage place.
20:21:31 I mean, there could be retail uses.
20:21:33 There -- it doesn't have to be residential.
20:21:35 There could be an office built.
20:21:37 There could be many, many things.
20:21:38 And it's obvious to me that the petitioner obviously
20:21:42 wants to keep what he's got.
20:21:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, that's why our staff has to go
20:21:48 back, legal has to go back and look at all the
20:21:51 ramifications based on the testimony of Mrs. Abbye
20:21:55 We'll let them work all that detail out.
20:21:57 There's a motion and second.
20:21:58 All in favor signify by saying aye.
20:22:02 And that comes back July the 22nd.
20:22:04 6:00 p.m.
20:22:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. McDonaugh.
20:22:53 >> Abbye Feeley, Land Development Coordination.
20:22:56 Next case on your agenda this evening is Z 10-other,
20:22:59 located at 3224 Henderson Boulevard.
20:23:02 The applicant is reindeer dentistry.
20:23:04 The request before you is from an RO 1 residential
20:23:08 office, which is office business professional.
20:23:11 PD planned development for office, medical and business
20:23:20 >> Good evening, Council once again.
20:23:25 Tony Garcia, Planning Commission staff.
20:23:27 I have been sworn.
20:23:28 Here's that map again.
20:23:32 So we are in the central district once again.
20:23:35 Nice opportunity for growth.
20:23:39 Site is located on in this corner down over here.
20:23:45 Just right inside the central district.
20:23:47 Show you the aerial over here.
20:23:52 It's right off of Henderson Boulevard, just off Kennedy
20:23:57 This side of course I'm sure some of you are familiar,
20:24:02 most of you are familiar with it.
20:24:03 It did come to you in a previous rezoning for an office
20:24:08 I believe the square footage was a little bit more than
20:24:11 I believe the parking was a little bit more than what
20:24:14 they're asking for here.
20:24:15 I also believe that the structure was a little bit
20:24:18 larger than the structure they're proposing here.
20:24:21 One of the big sticking points as I recall was parking.
20:24:24 I don't believe -- I don't recall, but eighth I'll let
20:24:29 Miss Feeley speak to it.
20:24:31 I don't think there's any waivers on this, from what --
20:24:34 there's three?
20:24:35 Didn't know.
20:24:35 I don't know if there's a parking waiver.
20:24:39 That was I think one of the sticking points.
20:24:41 But anyway, that's getting into Miss Feeley's
20:24:46 I don't want to dig too far into that out of respect
20:24:49 for what she wants to tell you all.
20:24:52 That being said, let me go ahead and show you the
20:24:54 future land use categories.
20:24:56 You have mixed use 60 along Kennedy Boulevard,
20:24:59 residential 10.
20:25:00 And then of course you have residential 20.
20:25:05 Which allows neighborhood commercial uses and also
20:25:08 allows residential office and professional office uses.
20:25:11 As you all know and I'm sure that you all have traveled
20:25:14 this part of Henderson Boulevard quite often.
20:25:16 The character of Henderson Boulevard is mixed.
20:25:19 There are general commercial uses, there are specialty
20:25:22 retail uses.
20:25:23 And there are also medical and professional office uses
20:25:25 along this particular seg am.
20:25:29 Varying intensities and Heights and architectural
20:25:33 Request for tonight is approximately 5800 square feet
20:25:35 from what I understand, the difference between this one
20:25:37 and the prior one situate believe the setbacks are a
20:25:40 little further back.
20:25:41 Little more suburb in tile, which is allowed on
20:25:45 Henderson Boulevard according to the comprehensive
20:25:47 But this structure is further back and closer to the
20:25:50 residential, which lies directly to test a of the site
20:25:53 compared to the other structure which was much larger.
20:25:57 So it was farther away, the buffering, as it related to
20:26:00 the residential.
20:26:01 This is a small structure, less of an impact.
20:26:05 It is consistent with the form of the other offices in
20:26:09 the area.
20:26:09 So, based on the consistency of that, and the
20:26:13 compatibility of the existing uses along Henderson
20:26:16 Boulevard, we also found this particular request
20:26:18 consistent with the comprehensive plan.
20:26:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
20:26:29 >> Abbye Feeley, Land Development Coordination.
20:26:31 Wanted to look back on the last page of your staff
20:26:37 report, it does reference the zoning application, the
20:26:42 prior one 5,000 square foot medical office.
20:26:46 The request before you this evening, Council, 3224 as I
20:26:50 mentioned is a request for a 5800 square foot office
20:26:53 building containing both with medical office and
20:26:56 business professional office.
20:26:58 And it is a split equally between the two.
20:27:00 There is no parking waiver.
20:27:02 Site is going to be parked according to code.
20:27:05 There are three waivers.
20:27:07 The first is to reduce the required buffer along the
20:27:10 east from 15 feet with a six foot masonry wall to ten
20:27:13 foot with a six foot vinyl fence.
20:27:15 The second is to reduce required buffer along the south
20:27:19 from 15 feet with six foot masonry wall to 14 feet with
20:27:22 a six foot vinyl fence.
20:27:23 And the last is to reduce the required drive aisle from
20:27:27 26 feet to 24 feet.
20:27:28 Which is typical waiver on many of our requests before
20:27:34 The setbacks are as follows: 50 foot to the north.
20:27:38 Ten foot to the east.
20:27:39 Seven foot to the south and 52 feet to the west.
20:27:42 Maximum building height is proposed at 35 feet.
20:27:45 As I mentioned, total of 27 parking spaces are required
20:27:49 and 27 spaces are being provided.
20:27:51 This is the site.
20:27:57 Along Henderson.
20:27:58 Cleveland to the south.
20:28:01 Matanzas to the east.
20:28:03 There are a series of office buildings along this area.
20:28:09 I remember the last hearing on this case, on this
20:28:13 property very vividly.
20:28:14 You also have the retail shop here, which this is the
20:28:19 CG, that triangle, so that triangle comes down almost
20:28:23 to the point of the property, which has the car wash
20:28:25 and I'll show you some other pictures on where we are.
20:28:29 Here you can see the site is vacant.
20:28:35 I think it's been vacant since the last time we closed
20:28:38 out the hearing on this property.
20:28:40 Single-family to the south.
20:28:43 Single-family along Matanzas.
20:28:48 To the east, a little pocket open space area there and
20:28:51 then office here.
20:28:52 Office here.
20:28:53 Some others mixed in there.
20:28:55 Here's the site.
20:29:01 This was the parking area for the old office, that used
20:29:09 to sit in the middle there.
20:29:10 This is turning the triangle to the south,
20:29:17 single-family rest dents.
20:29:21 On that triangle parcel to the north, which is the
20:29:23 retail cigar shop.
20:29:24 This is the other office building further south on
20:29:31 This is immediately across the street.
20:29:40 That small open area I talked to you about.
20:29:43 This is going further south on Brad Ford.
20:29:50 -- Bradford.
20:29:53 At the corner of Bradford and Cleveland.
20:29:55 And this is working my way south along Cleveland toward
20:30:01 MATANZA got a couple shots looking back north from
20:30:07 Cleveland toward the site.
20:30:08 So there would be a buffer required here.
20:30:11 That's the one that's going to have the wall with the
20:30:14 14 feet.
20:30:15 This is the property immediately behind.
20:30:20 Again, another view of that south buffer.
20:30:25 And there is the office to the north.
20:30:31 It was a little sunny out there.
20:30:33 I went back by this morning because some of the
20:30:36 pictures weren't so good.
20:30:37 On staff has currently found this application
20:30:43 There needs to be some modifications to the waivers, as
20:30:47 you can see on page two of the staff report.
20:30:49 They just need to be worded a little differently in
20:30:51 order to capture what's actually occurring there.
20:30:54 There needs to be a removal of one of the waivers
20:30:56 that's currently on the plan.
20:30:58 It's not necessary.
20:30:59 And also removal of a hedge that's currently shown on
20:31:03 the driveway.
20:31:04 The second comments that are in there are from Mary,
20:31:08 the tree and landscape specialist.
20:31:10 There aren't many trees on the site and they are right
20:31:13 now seeking to remove all of them.
20:31:16 Since the site is less than an acre, that actually can
20:31:20 be done.
20:31:20 They will be required plantings.
20:31:24 But she did recommend that a note be added that larger
20:31:29 caliper trees be planted back and the applicant was
20:31:33 amenable to that.
20:31:35 There are three palm trees on-site and a pecan.
20:31:40 So there's not much.
20:31:41 When we say a hundred percent, it's hard because you
20:31:43 think it's a lot.
20:31:44 But only three trees, three palms and a pecan.
20:31:49 She is recommending all three palms are transplanted
20:31:52 and asked for a note for that.
20:31:54 And then some turf lot to be placed in some of the
20:32:00 south parking spaces.
20:32:01 Lastly -- there's two more.
20:32:05 Solid waste needed a notation added in relation to the
20:32:08 refuse carts.
20:32:09 They also needed a visual depiction corrected.
20:32:15 On that.
20:32:17 And lastly stormwater needed there to be an amendment
20:32:21 to the stormwater note to cite the correct standard
20:32:24 that this site will be held to.
20:32:26 In relationship to the PD criteria, Anthony provided an
20:32:33 analysis on there, related to the building and its
20:32:38 compatibility with the surrounding area.
20:32:42 I'm sorry.
20:32:43 I'm available for any questions.
20:32:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Questions Council?
20:32:57 >> Good evening.
20:33:01 My name is Ralph Shuler.
20:33:03 I'm with JVB Architect, 1719 North Howard Avenue.
20:33:06 I'm the agent for the petition.
20:33:08 And I have been sworn.
20:33:09 As part of the team I'd like to introduce Lesley
20:33:13 Rudolph, the doctor who is going to have a hopefully a
20:33:20 successful practice here for many, many years to come.
20:33:23 She does dentistry, pediatric dentistry.
20:33:27 And that's what we are here to present to you tonight.
20:33:31 It's been a pleasure to work with staff on this
20:33:34 There's been a history in this project.
20:33:37 We knew that going in.
20:33:38 We tried to be as sensitive as possibly could be to the
20:33:43 I think the site is a very good candidate for a project
20:33:46 like this.
20:33:47 The only reason why we are here before you tonight, is
20:33:51 that it's a PD because it's a medical use.
20:33:54 Part it of the project is medical.
20:33:56 Only half is medical.
20:33:58 Other half is professional office.
20:33:59 That's what we're proposing, that's what we are going
20:34:02 to commit to.
20:34:02 That's what we want.
20:34:04 It's two story building, first floor is medical.
20:34:06 Second floor is professional office.
20:34:08 We have two separate entrances.
20:34:09 The it's all organized correctly.
20:34:12 It's very clean and very clear.
20:34:14 We have 27 parking spaces.
20:34:16 Which is exactly what we need.
20:34:17 We are not asking for a waiver.
20:34:19 It's a medium intensity project for project like this.
20:34:23 I'm certain we could have less, previous projects had a
20:34:27 lot more.
20:34:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here in opposition?
20:34:30 Anyone here in opposition?
20:34:31 All right.
20:34:31 Go ahead.
20:34:33 >> So, the previous project that was denied earlier was
20:34:37 about 8700 square feet, I believe.
20:34:40 Of which 5,000 square feet of that was the more
20:34:43 intensive medical use.
20:34:44 So, coming into all that together, we really worked
20:34:49 really hard to come up with a residential scenario that
20:34:54 looks residential, that kind of takes bungalow
20:34:58 aesthetic from Hyde Park, makes references to, this is
20:35:04 a transition site.
20:35:08 Go from more expensive commercial to the north, more
20:35:11 intensive commercial to is the south.
20:35:12 We have three corridors very close to the site.
20:35:14 We have Kennedy to the north, Cleveland to the south
20:35:16 and of course we're on Henderson.
20:35:19 So all of those things I think make for a very strong
20:35:23 case that this is an appropriate use for this project.
20:35:27 And for this site.
20:35:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What's your communication been with
20:35:31 the neighborhood?
20:35:32 >> Of course, we noticed, we noticed of course now --
20:35:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't doubt you noticed.
20:35:39 I had my phone number, no one ever called me.
20:35:44 Miss Rudolph, the dentist made personal calls and she
20:35:48 made personal attempts to 0 meet the neighborhood.
20:35:53 She melt with the neighborhood last week.
20:35:54 I'm going to let Lesley speak to that a little bit.
20:35:58 And there seemed to be I think some hangover here,
20:36:02 I'm going to let Lesley give you kind of why she's here
20:36:11 and what transpired in the way of communication with
20:36:14 the neighborhood.
20:36:17 >> Hi, I'm Lesley Rudolph.
20:36:19 I grew up in south Tampa.
20:36:20 I'm a lifelong resident here.
20:36:22 I'm currently the only board certified pediatric
20:36:25 dentist in south Tampa.
20:36:26 And I'm just really excited to become a part of this
20:36:29 neighborhood and offer a service to the kids and the
20:36:31 overall Tampa community.
20:36:32 Last weekend I did go visit the neighbors.
20:36:36 Did I receive one call.
20:36:37 Prior to the hearing.
20:36:39 And it was suggested that I come meet the neighbors,
20:36:41 which I did.
20:36:42 And I introduced myself.
20:36:43 I passed out toothbrushes and just asked what were the
20:36:47 concerns and what could we do for people to try and
20:36:58 >> From what I understand, there was one particular
20:37:00 person who was concerned.
20:37:02 I saw some string of E-mails.
20:37:04 We tried to understand his concerns.
20:37:06 I'm sure alley talk with them.
20:37:09 But, I don't know what more we can do to make an
20:37:13 attractive infill development in this particular site.
20:37:18 I mean, everything, from building design, site design,
20:37:24 meeting with staff, understanding how, how a project
20:37:26 like this, the only things we're asking for are
20:37:31 extremely minor waivers.
20:37:32 We have a ten foot buffer at the smallest point.
20:37:35 But the angle of the building is such it's really
20:37:37 probably more like 13 or 14 on the east.
20:37:40 We're providing numerous trees on the site.
20:37:43 Going to plant 12 new trees.
20:37:44 We have a buffer to the south that meets the
20:37:46 requirement of 15 feet.
20:37:47 Other than a cart for solid waste, which intrudes on
20:37:54 But really, it's the 15 feet.
20:37:57 We're going to make this a grand slam project for this
20:38:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What's your height limit.
20:38:05 >> Two story building but because it's residential in
20:38:08 character, the height of the top of the roof is like
20:38:10 32 feet.
20:38:11 But the actual skin or the wall is only 24 feet.
20:38:15 It's a two-story building.
20:38:17 The previous development was with over parking, three
20:38:20 stories tall, much more intensive.
20:38:23 And on all fronts.
20:38:25 So, back to the building the little bit, in conclusion
20:38:31 really, again, it's a bungalow style.
20:38:35 We have two entrances that are, you know, reminiscent
20:38:38 of a front porch.
20:38:40 We have dimensional shingles, hip roof.
20:38:42 We have, we have put in real double hung windows that
20:38:46 are residential windows.
20:38:47 We are not talking store front.
20:38:49 We are going to really try and make this look as house
20:38:51 like as possible.
20:38:52 Sure, it's a business and everyone knows it's a
20:38:56 business, but as compatible to the neighborhood as we
20:38:59 could possibly make it.
20:39:00 We are going to introduce green technologies.
20:39:02 Not saying we are going to go for LEED certified.
20:39:05 We are certainly going into green technologies.
20:39:07 And, in conclusion, on the staff report it says this
20:39:12 was a great transitional project for the neighborhood.
20:39:15 I mean, that's in my opinion hits the nail right on the
20:39:20 The it's a great transition from more intensive
20:39:23 commercial to less intensive residential.
20:39:24 Thank you.
20:39:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Because of the sense the tiff of the
20:39:32 neighborhood to the previous projects, did you think at
20:39:35 all of bringing the building all the way out to
20:39:39 >> We did explore that at the beginning.
20:39:41 And there's, there's pros and cons to every
20:39:48 The con to that, they now are parking all that activity
20:39:50 and all the traffic is on the back of the property.
20:39:53 The building is really, as well as the buffering, the
20:39:55 building is buffering what is the most intense
20:39:57 activity, which is cars parking, people coming and
20:40:01 going in and out and that noise.
20:40:02 If you put the building all the way up to the front,
20:40:05 really the opposite is occurring.
20:40:06 You're channeling more of that activity, more of that
20:40:09 noise to the rear of the property, closer and more
20:40:11 adjacent to residential.
20:40:12 So that's how we determined what the right location
20:40:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
20:40:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?
20:40:21 Those in opposition, anyone here in support?
20:40:23 All opposition or support?
20:40:27 Those in support on the right, those in open potion to
20:40:29 my left.
20:40:30 To my least, opposition, support, to my right.
20:40:46 >> It's been a long day.
20:40:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Ma'am, if you come on, if you're in
20:40:53 Yes, come on.
20:40:54 You come first.
20:40:57 >> Good evening.
20:40:58 My name is Janet coach.
20:41:01 I have been a resident of this area for over 50 years.
20:41:05 I own the property at 110 south MATANZA.
20:41:08 I have a unique perspective because I was at the
20:41:11 forefront of meeting with the neighbor whose opposed
20:41:13 the previous project.
20:41:14 It was something that we would not, would not have been
20:41:20 an asset to our neighborhood.
20:41:21 It would have been very bad for our home values.
20:41:24 I was so impressed with Dr. Rudolph because she took
20:41:28 the time to go back and see what exactly the neighbors
20:41:31 objected to on the first building.
20:41:34 And she systematically eliminated the things that were
20:41:38 a problem.
20:41:38 For the neighbors that have spoken.
20:41:41 And most of the opposition here is from Bradford, well,
20:41:47 Dr. Rudolph on her plan eliminated an exit and entrance
20:41:52 on Bradford.
20:41:53 There's only one entrance on Henderson to come in and
20:41:56 out and it does not include any kind of access on
20:41:59 Bradford whatsoever.
20:42:01 Now I also am representing, as I have met with my
20:42:03 neighbors directly across the street, who are the most
20:42:06 affected by this project, if anybody.
20:42:08 They are fine with it.
20:42:11 In fact, you were mentioning the trees and things, we
20:42:13 were talking about doing planting some bamboo.
20:42:17 Which I have a surplus of in my yard.
20:42:21 That would make a complete screen.
20:42:23 But the neighbors that bordered the back of her
20:42:27 property, they're the ones, and they have given me
20:42:31 their blessing to speak.
20:42:32 They said that they are very happy, very thrilled that
20:42:35 somebody so thoughtful came in and considered their
20:42:39 She even let them choose what kind of fence would be
20:42:43 most aesthetically pleasing to them.
20:42:45 She has jumped through hoops and bent over backwards.
20:42:48 And personally speaking as a mother of two children who
20:42:51 grew up here also in South Tampa, and came back to
20:42:56 start their business, I think Tampa is losing a
20:42:59 tremendous resource if we discourage our young people
20:43:02 from coming back to our city and making their life
20:43:07 Somebody that's moved from up north is not going to
20:43:11 have the commitment and the feelings of preserving and
20:43:17 making a nice neighborhood, as people he that have been
20:43:20 here all our lives.
20:43:22 And, Miss Rudolph has been here all of her life.
20:43:26 So I would hope that you would approve this.
20:43:27 I think she is -- I wish I had small children now,
20:43:32 because she's just a wonderful, wonderful with
20:43:35 Wonderful pediatric dentist.
20:43:37 And she was the top of her class.
20:43:39 I don't think we ought to run this great asset away.
20:43:42 Thank you.
20:43:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker?
20:43:46 >> Good evening.
20:43:46 My name is Robert Potter.
20:43:48 I live at 207 South Bradford Avenue, so I'm about
20:43:51 probably three lots down from the site we are talking
20:43:55 I do have --
20:43:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You're on the south side of
20:44:01 >> I'm on the south side of Cleveland.
20:44:03 I'm on Bradford though.
20:44:04 I do have a few minutes from other people.
20:44:08 I expect to the take about five minutes.
20:44:10 We do not have --
20:44:16 >> I'm, sorry sir.
20:44:18 If I could interrupt.
20:44:19 You intend to have additional minutes, is that what
20:44:21 you're asking for?
20:44:22 >> Yes.
20:44:23 >> Okay, I see one, two, three, four, five names.
20:44:26 If you could just raise your hand and acknowledge that
20:44:29 you're here.
20:44:30 Carrie Andershaft.
20:44:34 Joseph Andershaft.
20:44:36 Josephine Kagno.
20:44:46 John Van Pelt.
20:44:48 And Ricardo Kagno.
20:44:51 And where's Mr. Van Pelt?
20:44:54 Thank you.
20:44:54 And they won't be speaking.
20:44:59 Five additional minutes.
20:45:04 >> May I begin?
20:45:06 >> All right.
20:45:06 >> We do not have an official neighborhood association.
20:45:09 But we do have a very close neighborhood.
20:45:12 Most of us have lived in the neighborhood for 35 years
20:45:15 or more.
20:45:15 I'm basically kind of the rookie at 27 years.
20:45:18 Our oldest, our patriarch and matriarch have been there
20:45:24 for 50 years.
20:45:25 And I was you can talking to our matriarch last night
20:45:28 as we were out walking our dogs and she mentioned that
20:45:31 six months after they built their home 50 years ago,
20:45:34 they began having to deal with zoning issue us to
20:45:36 protect the neighborhood.
20:45:37 Both of them are here tonight.
20:45:39 They're still protecting their neighborhood after 50
20:45:43 We spent a lot of time with each other.
20:45:46 We oftentimes have Thanksgiving dinners or 4th of July
20:45:50 get-togethers for relatively close neighborhood.
20:45:53 We try very hard to protect Bradford avenue.
20:45:56 And the reason that we're in opposition to this
20:45:59 building is because it is on Bradford every.
20:46:01 There's a large portion that fronts on Henderson.
20:46:05 We don't deny that.
20:46:06 But it is the cornerstone or the gateway onto Bradford.
20:46:11 We have raised our children in this neighborhood.
20:46:13 Many of us are now raising our grandchildren.
20:46:15 Not me, I'm too young to have grandchildren.
20:46:18 [ Laughter ]
20:46:18 >> But one, probably our -- shouldn't say our cutest
20:46:23 But one of our cute grandchildren now stands out in the
20:46:26 front yard and she shakes her fingers at the cars
20:46:29 buzzing by and yells out, slow down.
20:46:32 We have already a problem with a lot of cars and
20:46:36 traffic coming down Bradford avenue.
20:46:38 I think what's happening, they're going eastbound on
20:46:42 Kennedy, they see the light at MacDill turn red.
20:46:45 So they know if they cut down to Azeele and go on down
20:46:48 Azeele, they can get to where they're going eastbound.
20:46:51 Azeele is basically four lanes going one way, very few
20:46:55 stop lights on it.
20:46:56 So we have a lot of that traffic already buzzing down
20:46:58 our street.
20:46:59 We believe that this proposed building is going to do
20:47:04 nothing but generate more traffic.
20:47:06 Yes, she has closed off the entrance to Bradford.
20:47:10 We're very appreciative of that fact.
20:47:12 But we all know that cars are going to find ways into
20:47:15 this site that travel on the smaller roads, the quicker
20:47:19 roads, less traffic.
20:47:20 Less traffic to them, more traffic to us.
20:47:23 This use requires a change to PD.
20:47:26 When you make a change to PD, it requires that you be
20:47:30 consistent with 27.321.
20:47:33 If you read 27.321, there's at least seven references
20:47:38 to protecting the surrounding neighborhood.
20:47:40 And looking at the question of whether or not this is
20:47:43 compatible with the surrounding neighborhood.
20:47:45 We oppose this building because we do not believe that
20:47:49 it is compatible with the surrounding neighborhood.
20:47:51 Reference was made to calling it a Hyde Park bungalow.
20:48:00 I know Hyde Park bungalows, and this is not him.
20:48:04 This is a rectangular, square building, masonry with a
20:48:10 little bit of architectural flair added to the four
20:48:15 It is replacing a building that was a residential home
20:48:22 that had been converted into a doctor's office.
20:48:25 And three doctors ran their practice in that office
20:48:28 for, I'm not sure how many years, but probably 20 or
20:48:32 We took down that residential building and now we are
20:48:35 putting up what's referred to as a Hyde Park bungalow.
20:48:39 It's simply is not compatible with the neighborhood.
20:48:41 We have a neighborhood that butts up right next to
20:48:45 Kennedy Boulevard.
20:48:46 We have very, very short area in which to make a
20:48:49 About a one block area.
20:48:51 And this building is in that transition area.
20:48:54 What we want is something that is compatible with
20:48:58 residential in flight.
20:48:59 I know you hear a lot of people that come in here and
20:49:02 just site no, no, no change whatsoever.
20:49:05 There is a building directly across the street from the
20:49:09 proposed site, you have been shown a picture before.
20:49:13 I'll put it up here again.
20:49:16 I was at the timed to slap it in there and pull it back
20:49:20 off real quick, because when you first look at it, it
20:49:24 looks like a residence, it looks like a single-family
20:49:26 home with a detached garage.
20:49:28 That's what the neighborhood wants.
20:49:29 That's what the neighborhood is willing to support.
20:49:31 That's what with the neighborhood did support.
20:49:33 This structure is -- the large building, is 2,000
20:49:39 square feet on the bottom.
20:49:40 2,000 square feet on the top.
20:49:41 And the building in the back, looks like a garage, is
20:49:45 about 1500 square feet.
20:49:47 So you've got 5500 square feet in this type of
20:49:51 If I remember right, the petitioner was asking to put
20:49:53 up 5800 feet.
20:49:55 So she can essentially do this with what she's, her
20:50:01 existing property.
20:50:01 And this is what's compatible with the neighborhood.
20:50:04 This is what serves as a transition.
20:50:07 This is what the neighborhood wants.
20:50:08 We are not just here saying no to everything.
20:50:10 We are saying look, use your creativity.
20:50:14 Use your imagination, come up with something like this.
20:50:17 In fact, come up with this.
20:50:18 We don't care.
20:50:19 She could take this and build this there.
20:50:21 We'd be happy.
20:50:22 It's not impossible.
20:50:23 It's not unfeasible.
20:50:24 It's there.
20:50:25 It exists.
20:50:26 And I'm guessing she could probably build that cheaper
20:50:28 today than it was built seven years ago.
20:50:31 Parking, we're very concerned about parking.
20:50:37 Not so much parking, but we are concerned about the
20:50:40 I've already gone over that but we are already having a
20:50:43 lot of traffic up and down Bradford.
20:50:45 To the extent that our two-year-old children are
20:50:49 standing out there shaking their fingers.
20:50:52 I'll let you guess where that he got that from.
20:50:55 That he was a lot of us out there doing that because
20:50:57 it's a problem.
20:50:57 We believe that if we had something more like the
20:51:02 building we're being shown, that is more compatible to
20:51:06 the neighborhood.
20:51:06 Probably less expensive in terms of traffic, probably
20:51:09 less intensive in terms of traffic up and down our
20:51:13 But our primary opposition some this is it doesn't
20:51:17 provide that transition.
20:51:18 We have got Kennedy that's purely commercial.
20:51:20 You've got Bradford, which is purely residential.
20:51:23 What we want is some kind of reasonable transition.
20:51:25 And we have got a perfect example of it literally
20:51:29 across the street.
20:51:29 Thank you.
20:51:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
20:51:33 Next speaker?
20:51:39 >> My name's John Kabbes.
20:51:45 I live 204 South Bradford.
20:51:48 And we stand before you again from a year ago.
20:51:50 Our neighborhood would like to resolve this in a
20:51:52 positive way.
20:51:52 I'd like to give you a slide here.
20:51:55 I need the whole thing blown up.
20:52:02 Can you blow the whole thing up?
20:52:04 >> There's a button on there.
20:52:06 Zoom in and out.
20:52:27 >> The original footprint from Dr. Hampton's office,
20:52:31 which was 1500 square foot, is this area right here,
20:52:34 that there's no grass.
20:52:35 You can see the dirt area right in there.
20:52:37 So 1500 square foot and supposedly at the time, it was
20:52:42 a single doctor who's going to 0 and had his practice
20:52:47 He brought in two additional doctors.
20:52:50 And at the time, converted his garage into an operating
20:52:54 So he went from 1500 to 2,000.
20:52:57 It's all been bulldozed.
20:52:59 We don't have that any more.
20:53:00 But we had no control over that.
20:53:02 And we were told it's going to be a single doctor.
20:53:04 All of a sudden three doctors are there.
20:53:07 But with a 1500 square foot office, and that was
20:53:10 basically through working, in that footprint, they
20:53:15 didn't have enough parking with a 1500-foot, with the,
20:53:20 with 3,000, you're going to double this footprint and
20:53:23 then go two stories.
20:53:25 This is going to be an issue.
20:53:26 We welcome a building like this across the street.
20:53:31 We figure 44,500 square foot two story, more than
20:53:34 welcome to work with any developer, any doctor.
20:53:37 We'll all show up and we'll bring our shovels, be the
20:53:40 first one to break ground for them.
20:53:42 We'd be so happy to put this behind us.
20:53:45 But what we don't like is the mixed use, where, where
20:53:49 they have part medical, and then part professional
20:53:53 office space to make the parking numbers work.
20:53:57 That's not what we want.
20:53:59 We want all medical.
20:54:00 Give us parking that will cover that.
20:54:02 And you can build a 4,000 square foot medical office.
20:54:05 Medical offices rents for one to one and a half, two
20:54:09 times more than professional office.
20:54:11 Why would you want to build another 3,000 and rent to
20:54:14 it professional when you can make the whole thing a
20:54:16 dental clinic, make it smaller, make it fit the
20:54:21 Make the parking just a -- fit the site plan without
20:54:26 the camouflage of 3,000 medical, 3,000 professional.
20:54:29 That's what we're looking at.
20:54:30 And City Council isn't going to be there to monitor
20:54:33 this the next five or 10 years.
20:54:35 That's not your job.
20:54:36 Your job is make the decision today.
20:54:37 Work with us so we can work with her.
20:54:39 Let's just do pure medical and see if we can't come up
20:54:43 with a solution.
20:54:44 Thank you.
20:54:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker?
20:54:52 >> I'm Adam Kijanski, 107 South Matanzas.
20:54:56 Actually this site here.
20:54:58 This building right there, that's my house.
20:55:02 So I do butt up to the post.
20:55:04 So the impact is going to affect me and my home where
20:55:08 my child, both my children and my life wife.
20:55:11 We have a pool in the backyard.
20:55:12 So the building, the back of the property is more of an
20:55:15 issue as opposed to the parking.
20:55:18 I see it said if the parking was in the back of the
20:55:21 dentists office, most of them close by 5:00 then it's
20:55:25 going to be vacant.
20:55:31 >> I'm on one of the back sides.
20:55:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: If we gave you this picture, could
20:55:37 you show us?
20:55:38 >> Sure.
20:55:54 >> This one right over here.
20:55:56 I butt up to the commercial, currently that's right on
20:55:59 the corner.
20:55:59 I did meet with Dr. Rudolph.
20:56:03 Very pleasant.
20:56:04 I would love to see her dentistry go up there.
20:56:06 But I would like a building that's more appropriate for
20:56:08 the neighborhood.
20:56:09 And preferably, you know, without the setbacks, because
20:56:12 it would be with essentially my backyard that when I go
20:56:15 out there, I'm going to be seeing that on a regular
20:56:19 We did talk to her about landscaping and she was
20:56:22 amenable to putting up mature landscaping as opposed to
20:56:26 small trees that would take years to grow.
20:56:26 Because if you look at most of these pictures, the
20:56:28 whole neighborhood is covered in large oak trees.
20:56:30 So, clearcutting the lot and then taking time would,
20:56:34 you know, not be the most pleasant thing.
20:56:37 Thank you.
20:56:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker?
20:56:43 >> Sal McKenzie, 209 South Bradford Street.
20:56:47 I have been sworn in.
20:56:47 Again, like the rest of our neighbors, we are not
20:56:50 objecting the practice going on Bradford avenue.
20:56:53 It is the size of the building.
20:56:55 I probably pay the most taxes on the street.
20:56:58 And obviously because of the economy and everything,
20:57:01 the value of my home has dropped tremendously.
20:57:04 My taxes haven't.
20:57:06 So, by having the type of structure that they want to
20:57:10 put on that property, is just going to deter the value
20:57:13 even more.
20:57:14 So, I really would like to preserve number one, the
20:57:17 value of my house.
20:57:19 Also two, as they were all saying, the cars that come
20:57:22 down, especially around between 4:00 and 6:00 p.m.
20:57:27 Will come down Henderson, cross Bradford, to get to
20:57:31 And it's almost like we would need a traffic light at
20:57:34 the end of Bradford and Azeele.
20:57:36 Also, because of the speed that the cars do go through
20:57:40 there, when I moved there probably the four years ago
20:57:44 this weekend, it was great. I had a driveway.
20:57:46 I could park my car on the driveway.
20:57:48 And it was a better way of life for where I'm living.
20:57:52 Now, I have to park my car in the street, just to slow
20:57:56 the cars down.
20:57:57 And like the other neighbors, we will actually
20:58:01 sometimes talk right at the edge of the driveway, just
20:58:04 past almost into the road, just so cars will slow down.
20:58:08 We do have the point out to them, the kids absolute I
20:58:12 are in the neighborhood.
20:58:13 When I moved there, there was families starting.
20:58:15 Now we have children from six months and I say
20:58:18 children, but they're 17 years old.
20:58:20 So it is a family community.
20:58:21 We do watch with out for each other.
20:58:24 I am not opposed to Dr. Rudolph building a business.
20:58:27 Young, inspirational, motivational, I think it's great.
20:58:32 I think it's what we need.
20:58:33 Not that type of building on our property.
20:58:35 Thank you very much.
20:58:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker?
20:58:40 >> Hi, I'm Brian Wright.
20:58:42 212 South Bradford Avenue here in Tampa.
20:58:45 I'm basically about two issues I'd like to cover here.
20:58:49 Just so you can see quickly, she's not the one shaking
20:58:53 her finger, but she might know the one she is.
20:58:56 My lovely kids.
20:58:57 My two issues are basically, going to be safety and the
20:59:01 welfare of my family.
20:59:02 I know when have this other building here, I believe is
20:59:06 going to start getting more traffic.
20:59:08 More up and down our street.
20:59:09 The safety.
20:59:10 And I just want to make sure it's going to be very
20:59:13 Understand we are on a residential area.
20:59:15 Do I not that he the property is zoned RO 1.
20:59:18 I believe they can build a building and still maintain
20:59:21 that zoning without having to go to a PUD.
20:59:24 Just a couple more pictures here.
20:59:28 At the top one, several times, and I'm pretty sure that
20:59:34 will combine, will abide by the RO 1 zoning.
20:59:38 But I know the bottom one will not.
20:59:40 My second issue I want to address is, I don't see that
20:59:45 there's really a hardship for me to explain that, a
20:59:48 hardship for the people.
20:59:51 I went back and I did some research as to what the
20:59:55 zoning -- not zoning, but what the office vacancy rates
21:00:00 I looked at two documents here, Wilson Ellis.
21:00:02 The other one is Colliers and Arnold.
21:00:06 If you look in the CBD, you're basically 20.1%.
21:00:10 South Tampa is at 12%.
21:00:11 And you're looking at the Westchase area.
21:00:14 21.6% vacancy rate.
21:00:17 I don't see a hardship for them to build an extra large
21:00:20 building for office space for the second floor.
21:00:22 So, I'm a little concerned about the size of this
21:00:25 Hopefully you guys will take into consideration that it
21:00:28 does not really comply with our current use for the
21:00:33 Thank you very much.
21:00:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: John, you had a question?
21:00:42 >> Good evening, councilmember, my name is Bruce young,
21:00:45 201 south wood land avenue.
21:00:47 I have been sworn in.
21:00:48 Along with my neighbors, I do have some of the same
21:00:51 The first one is the size and scope of the proposed
21:00:54 The second one is the impact on the existing
21:00:57 As we have discussed, we do have a number of families
21:01:00 in the area.
21:01:01 Last count, I think we have around 35 children in the
21:01:05 There was just one actually born two weeks ago.
21:01:08 So one of my issues is also the impact on the existing
21:01:13 When I talk about the impact, I talk about parking and
21:01:16 the traffic.
21:01:17 So one of the things that we looked at was when you
21:01:21 look at the office, the top half being professional
21:01:26 office, which allows lower parking.
21:01:29 I don't think there's any guarantees and there's no way
21:01:32 to police it, that it's going to stay that way.
21:01:35 So that's one of our issues there.
21:01:37 The petitioner spoke about the three streets that
21:01:41 border that property.
21:01:43 One being Kennedy, the other being Henderson.
21:01:46 And one being Cleveland.
21:01:47 And Cleveland really splits right down southern pines
21:01:51 My house is on the corner of Cleveland and woodland.
21:01:53 So to say that that's a great street to have bordering
21:01:57 your property, that's a shortcut to get to this
21:02:01 And then in terms of the building, the building
21:02:05 blending in with the neighborhood, in our opinion, the
21:02:07 building does not meet the character of the
21:02:10 I think that's a key trait.
21:02:12 And we discussed this last time and even Miss Feeley
21:02:15 brought that up in some earlier discussions.
21:02:18 And then one other thing I wanted to bring up.
21:02:21 And it gets back to the no guarantees.
21:02:24 I'm not sure, and I don't know if this is an issue to
21:02:29 discuss here.
21:02:30 But I'm not sure that the doctor even owns this
21:02:33 Because when you look at what it says on the
21:02:35 development, it says it's red stone investment.
21:02:38 Dental office.
21:02:40 So to me, that sounds like a commercial development
21:02:43 person who's going to be leasing this building, which
21:02:46 to me I think that removes the dentist from any
21:02:52 residential liability per se.
21:02:53 I'm not saying she wouldn't be a good citizen.
21:02:56 But if you're in a commercial building, the commercial
21:03:00 owners are going to be calling the shots.
21:03:02 It happens to be a national development firm.
21:03:04 They have offices all over the country.
21:03:06 Here's their, one of their offices that they built here
21:03:09 in Tampa.
21:03:10 Which is by the McDonald on Cleveland.
21:03:13 Which is currently vacant.
21:03:15 And that is where the doctor's office, that's where the
21:03:18 doctor's business is currently registered out of.
21:03:22 So, I don't know if this commercial investment company
21:03:26 will have the same interests in the neighborhood as the
21:03:28 So, I have not met the Dr. I'm sure she has great
21:03:32 I personally would like to see a smaller office
21:03:35 building with a little bit less traffic.
21:03:39 And to me, the traffic gets into the parking
21:03:42 And I appreciate your time.
21:03:43 Thank you very much.
21:03:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker?
21:03:45 Thank you.
21:03:48 >> Good evening, Councilmembers.
21:03:51 My name is Bill Demeter.
21:03:54 I'll be very brief.
21:03:56 My wife Gayle and I have lived in the neighborhood for
21:03:58 32 years.
21:03:59 We raised two children there, now have grandchildren.
21:04:01 This is a very sensitive neighborhood.
21:04:05 Everyone is very, very close.
21:04:08 We are active on our streets.
21:04:10 We're out and about.
21:04:11 I'm here to tell you, ladies and gentlemen, that this
21:04:14 is absolutely unnecessary the tonight.
21:04:16 No zoning has to be changed.
21:04:18 I'm all for the good doctor to build a successful
21:04:21 practice there.
21:04:22 But, what can be built there with the zoning that
21:04:25 exists can be built there.
21:04:27 She can build a 5,000 square foot building like the one
21:04:31 across the street that everybody likes.
21:04:32 And get everything that she wants.
21:04:34 This rezoning is absolutely unnecessary.
21:04:36 That's all I have to say.
21:04:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
21:04:45 >> Thank you.
21:05:07 Scott Molnar -- will you raise your hand please.
21:05:11 Gayle Demeter.
21:05:15 Emma Nelson.
21:05:16 Sherry Nelson and Thor Nelson.
21:05:22 Five additional minutes.
21:05:23 >> Okay.
21:05:26 Good evening, my name is Joe Ullrich, 206 South
21:05:30 Bradford Avenue.
21:05:31 I have lived there will be 27 years in September.
21:05:33 I know everybody is tired.
21:05:35 I'll be as fast as I possibly can.
21:05:37 Try to hit the highlights.
21:05:38 Hopefully we get this straighten out.
21:05:41 You heard a lot of passionate conversation about the
21:05:44 neighborhood and the business also.
21:05:46 We really would like to see Lesley move into the area.
21:05:49 She's a great person.
21:05:50 Young, we'd like to see that kind of business.
21:05:55 But certainly not an this expense.
21:05:57 Because we're the ones right on Bradford, we are going
21:05:59 to pay the most for that business.
21:06:00 I'll show you how in just a second.
21:06:02 But the reality of the situation, we have architects
21:06:06 quoting one thing, attorneys quoting the other.
21:06:08 I'm just a guy on Bradford avenue.
21:06:11 All I have to rely on is what I know happens in the
21:06:14 We have photographs, we have got everything we could
21:06:16 possibly do to show you what the situation is there.
21:06:18 And hopefully will make our case.
21:06:21 So I'd like to start first of all with the density of
21:06:23 the area and how it's currently being used.
21:06:28 You will notice right up here where the red DOT is,
21:06:32 that's where the proposed property is going in.
21:06:34 Which is really Ruth, borders on Bradford avenue and
21:06:38 frontage on Henderson.
21:06:40 Now, what we have going on in our neighborhood, no one
21:06:43 wants to bring to your attention, is the fact Bradford
21:06:46 first of all is the most narrow street in the whole
21:06:49 southern pines estates.
21:06:50 It's a narrow street.
21:06:51 In addition to that, it's a major cut through, which
21:06:54 means people going from Azeele up to Kennedy Boulevard,
21:06:57 or picking up into Henderson, and then up to Kennedy,
21:07:00 and vice versus.
21:07:02 So any time of the morning, any time of the evening,
21:07:05 commuters are using this as a back and forth, north and
21:07:08 south back and forth.
21:07:09 Additionally, you've got a huge cut through on
21:07:12 Cleveland going, and MacDill.
21:07:14 So this little section, even though it's just 18,000
21:07:18 square feet of land and so forth and so on.
21:07:21 That's really the corner ever cut through and cut
21:07:24 That's really what we're talking about here.
21:07:26 There's a ton of traffic there.
21:07:27 This happens this is 15 days ago.
21:07:31 What is so odd, I took the picture the day before the
21:07:34 meeting was supposed to happen.
21:07:36 Obviously got rescheduled.
21:07:38 But, somebody's coming across, coming through this
21:07:41 whole cut-through on Cleveland.
21:07:44 This is at, just about 10:00 in the morning.
21:07:46 They were coming across on Cleveland heading west.
21:07:49 They he were going to go south on Henderson.
21:07:51 Somebody was coming south on Henderson and trying to go
21:07:54 east on Cleveland.
21:07:56 And you can see right here the police are there, the
21:07:58 fire department's there.
21:08:00 These people spun each other out right in the middle of
21:08:02 Henderson Boulevard.
21:08:03 Two cars blocking four lanes of traffic until they have
21:08:06 got to move the site over to the Cleveland.
21:08:09 The reality is these things happen a lot more
21:08:11 frequently in our neighborhood, in our area than it has
21:08:13 in the past and certainly in other areas.
21:08:16 We have a little exception there.
21:08:17 But in addition to the traffic, which is really
21:08:20 escalating, I might add.
21:08:22 We also have some huge parking issues.
21:08:26 Now this is a typical night in my neighborhood.
21:08:30 You have got sushi up here, right across the street
21:08:34 from that you have Edwards tobacco.
21:08:36 When Edwards tobacco does a promotion, they're parked
21:08:39 all the way down to Azeele on Bradford.
21:08:42 Keep in mind this is a narrow street.
21:08:44 People are weaving in and out.
21:08:46 People kick ting the ball, running into a the street.
21:08:48 There's going to be an accident it's not question, it's
21:08:51 going to happen.
21:08:52 But the reality. Situation, as you can see here,
21:08:56 they're turning the corner going over to Cleveland.
21:08:59 We don't have enough as you faith into our
21:09:01 neighborhood, we have subsidized all the businesses we
21:09:05 There's no more room.
21:09:08 That's why it's so important we get this right this
21:09:11 We got to get this parking issue resolved.
21:09:14 This is the proposed site right here.
21:09:16 And also right here.
21:09:19 We don't have a chance.
21:09:20 The neighborhood does not have a chance.
21:09:24 Without the proper parking, it will not bode well for
21:09:27 the neighborhood.
21:09:28 Our welfare is at stake.
21:09:29 In addition, some of my neighbors resorted to
21:09:38 getting -- you can see this one, the condition that's
21:09:41 That has been up there for years.
21:09:42 That's how much parking we have in the neighborhood.
21:09:44 As you can see, we're pretty much basic everyday
21:09:48 residential Tampa neighborhood.
21:09:49 We have some beautiful homes, two story brick, you
21:09:51 know, the singe will story, but the reality, we have
21:09:55 issues with parking, we have issues with traffic.
21:09:57 Now, the proposed property.
21:10:04 If Dr. Was good for anything, he taught us a lot.
21:10:10 Because now we are saying, okay 2900 square feet of
21:10:14 dental office.
21:10:16 Only have 2900 square feet of just for business office.
21:10:22 I was talking to a couple attorneys and an architect
21:10:25 that's a friend of mine.
21:10:27 I asked them, look, can you take where somebody has
21:10:30 lunch out of the floor plan and say hey, we're going to
21:10:33 designate that as office space now?
21:10:36 So we can allocate less, get a little bit more
21:10:39 consideration of the parking?
21:10:40 Because that's exactly what's presented to us.
21:10:43 In a letter that was circulated through the
21:10:45 neighborhood from Lesley.
21:10:47 States clearly it will be a two-story building with
21:10:49 2900 square feet of pediatric dental office on the
21:10:52 first floor and 2900 square feet on the second floor,
21:10:55 which will house my private business and staff lounge
21:10:58 for my practice.
21:10:59 Medical's medical.
21:11:01 It doesn't matter if you're eating lunch in the lounge,
21:11:04 it doesn't matter if you're sitting at your desk.
21:11:06 If you're working in a medical office, it's a medical
21:11:10 I asked and the neighborhood asked let's just call this
21:11:12 building medical and build accordingly.
21:11:14 Let's just call it what it is.
21:11:16 There's no guarantees that you can give me this evening
21:11:18 that a year from now, six months from now, two years
21:11:21 from now, five years from now, what's being proposed to
21:11:24 us this evening is actually what's going to happen on
21:11:27 that prop.
21:11:28 We don't know.
21:11:29 You can't give me those guarantees.
21:11:31 The only protection we have is to keep that RO.
21:11:33 That's it.
21:11:35 Take you that away.
21:11:36 Our neighborhood's down the tubes.
21:11:38 Now, as far as the parking goes, again, there's 27
21:11:42 spaces and based on the way this is arranged here, the
21:11:46 books formula that Dr. Janssen used to use, half
21:11:49 dental, half office, therefore we only need 27 spaces.
21:11:53 And that would be the minimum standard.
21:11:55 So I submit to you the minimum standard isn't even in
21:12:00 our neighborhood.
21:12:03 Here's Dr. Jansen, his old building, he had 18 places
21:12:05 and there were still cars parked up and down the
21:12:08 That was approximately 2,000 square feet.
21:12:10 So we are going to triple the square footage and only
21:12:14 add nine parking places?
21:12:15 It is not enough.
21:12:17 In addition, here's, I went to another sole
21:12:22 practitioner who has 6,000 square feet.
21:12:26 It doesn't exist.
21:12:26 I couldn't find much more than 2,000 square feet with
21:12:29 one exception.
21:12:30 Only thing that came close to what's being proposed
21:12:32 right now is 7250 square feet, 1010 south MacDill
21:12:41 It's around, almost 32,000 square feet.
21:12:45 They have 45 parking places.
21:12:47 45 parking places.
21:12:48 Where here, we are talking about nearly 6,000 square
21:12:51 feet with only 27 parking places.
21:12:53 Here's what it looks like on a Sunday morning about
21:12:57 This is what it looks like on a Monday morning at
21:13:02 There aren't enough parking places.
21:13:06 Edwards tobacco, are well within their criteria for
21:13:10 They didn't know they were going to be so popular.
21:13:13 But there's overflow coming into our area.
21:13:16 Same thing with SoHo sushi.
21:13:18 Great restaurant but this overflow.
21:13:22 So they're coming down Bradford.
21:13:24 Now we have a situation where somebody's claiming that
21:13:26 it's going to be a 6,000 square feet building with
21:13:29 3,000 office, 3,000 medical that could end up 6,000
21:13:32 medical just like something along this line, and 27
21:13:36 parking places aren't going to be enough for the
21:13:38 Much less the patients.
21:13:40 So I submit to you these are minimum standards.
21:13:42 We are the exception.
21:13:43 If there's a hardship here, we are the hardship.
21:13:46 The neighborhood's the hardship.
21:13:48 We need more parking in our area.
21:13:50 Now the zoning is great.
21:13:51 I'm sure worse in other areas of Tampa.
21:13:54 In this area it does not work.
21:13:56 As far as drainage goes, yes -- is that me?
21:14:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir. Yeah, your time is up.
21:14:10 >> To approve this, only one person is going to benefit
21:14:14 at the expense of dozens of families.
21:14:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
21:14:17 >> Sir, did you want to give those to the clerk?
21:14:20 >> Sure, I'd love to.
21:14:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilmember Dingfelder was fir.
21:14:24 You have a question, then Councilwoman Saul-Sena.
21:14:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mease Miss Feeley?
21:14:32 A question.
21:14:33 And then I have a couple comments.
21:14:35 We do have rebuttal --
21:14:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We do have rebuttal from the
21:14:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The RO 1 that's currently on there.
21:14:46 So, allows office use, but obviously doesn't allow any
21:14:54 medical use and that's why this petition is before us,
21:14:58 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Office use in the RO-1 is a special use
21:15:01 two, which is a public hearing before you.
21:15:03 Medical in the RO-1 is a special use 2.
21:15:08 Or a PD.
21:15:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Right.
21:15:11 But any other type of office could build there as a
21:15:16 matter of right in the RO-1?
21:15:18 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Correct.
21:15:19 Accountant, real estate.
21:15:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So if somebody decided they're going
21:15:23 to build a building there and put in 25 spaces or 35
21:15:28 spaces, if they could fit it, I mean I don't know if
21:15:31 they could fit it.
21:15:33 Maybe they could.
21:15:33 So then you've got 35 potential cars running up and
21:15:39 down the various streets of South Tampa.
21:15:42 And they wouldn't even be here today.
21:15:45 They'd just be pulling permit.
21:15:48 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Correct.
21:15:48 Which is where we went back to when we heard this case
21:15:53 before, was that there were certain rights that were on
21:15:56 the property and certain things shifting around.
21:15:58 And there are.
21:15:59 Understand the RO 1, which that district talks about
21:16:03 infill development and opportunities for infill of
21:16:05 residential non-residential uses, and it does allow for
21:16:09 the different capacity of office.
21:16:11 I could also tell you per the use table other uses that
21:16:15 it would be allowed in the RO-1 as well if you're
21:16:18 interested in that.
21:16:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here's my comment, Mr. Chairman.
21:16:23 And I'm going to throw it out now.
21:16:25 And perhaps the rebuttal can address it.
21:16:29 When I first came on Council, we approved a zoning at
21:16:34 the corner of Kennedy and KRENTEL over near Lois.
21:16:43 It was for a bank, pretty good size bank.
21:16:46 And the neighborhood said we don't necessarily oppose
21:16:49 that bank because we recognize we're right there by
21:16:53 But we're extremely concerned that that bank is going
21:16:57 to attract additional traffic cutting through our
21:17:01 So the compromise that was worked out between the
21:17:04 neighborhood, the petitioner and this Council and our
21:17:07 transportation staffer, was to close KRENTEL right
21:17:12 there at the face ever Kennedy Boulevard.
21:17:15 We have heard now through various hours and hours of
21:17:21 petitions on this property that Bradford is a bad
21:17:24 cut-through and we have 20 folks here tonight to
21:17:28 testify to that.
21:17:29 The other gentleman spoke to a lot of parking problems.
21:17:34 We have a parking code that says that X amount of
21:17:38 square footage of office slash medical office needs 27
21:17:45 I don't think it's fair or even legal of us to, you
21:17:50 know, to demand more.
21:17:51 That's what our code says, it's based upon national
21:17:55 So I'm not going to strain to the parking issue.
21:17:57 But I'd like to focus a little bit on that cut-through
21:18:01 I would love to see our Council think about the
21:18:06 solution that we did in KRENTEL.
21:18:08 You know, I know this city and this board is not
21:18:12 thrilled about closing off streets.
21:18:14 But on occasion, we do.
21:18:15 Before I came on this Council, this body closed off
21:18:20 Parkland on Swann, because there was a lot of
21:18:23 cut-through coming through there.
21:18:25 Good or bad, doesn't matter.
21:18:28 It's closed off now.
21:18:29 I think the parkland neighborhood appreciates that
21:18:31 greatly, especially with all the greater intensity on
21:18:35 Howard avenue.
21:18:35 In the SoHo area.
21:18:40 I think that if Bradford has a real problem, I don't
21:18:43 think that this particular lot with 27 spaces and a day
21:18:47 time use is really the problem.
21:18:49 I think that they're crying out for help on this other
21:18:54 And so I'd love to see us possibly explore that.
21:18:58 It's going to take a little more time.
21:19:00 And a little more effort.
21:19:02 And frankly, in the KRENTEL situation, the bank had to
21:19:05 kick in a little bit because there were costs
21:19:07 associated with closing KRENTEL.
21:19:10 I don't know if the Rudolphs heard me on that.
21:19:14 In the KRENTEL situation, the bank had to kick in a
21:19:18 little bid of money because there were cost associated
21:19:20 with closing off the street.
21:19:22 I don't know what those are.
21:19:24 But I just want to alert you to that as a possibility.
21:19:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena, Councilman
21:19:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just wanted to respond.
21:19:31 I was on Council when we closed off a couple streets
21:19:35 for commercial uses on the south side of Kennedy, when
21:19:38 miss Vizzi's neighborhood did not want the cut-through
21:19:42 It worked rather well.
21:19:44 My question's for staff.
21:19:46 And it's based on the fact that I was once a mother and
21:19:51 took the kids to pediatric dentists, are there more
21:19:55 parking spaces required for pediatric than regular
21:20:00 >> No, in fact there is not a different parking ratio
21:20:03 for a pediatrician versus a GM, versus a dentist.
21:20:07 Our medical is all grouped under medical, chiropractor,
21:20:10 all that it's all the same.
21:20:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We don't go by specialty?
21:20:16 >>ABBYE FEELEY: No.
21:20:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilmember Miranda?
21:20:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
21:20:21 I have a tendency to agree with my good friend, John
21:20:25 Dingfelder, that sometimes it is not the location, but
21:20:28 what Devil Rays the location to have the problems.
21:20:30 Yes, I was here and I did close -- maybe Miss Saul-Sena
21:20:35 and others, parkland and other streets to make it more
21:20:40 viable for those who live there.
21:20:42 I was also here when I was chairman and pushed, there
21:20:48 was no area, there was no difference between
21:20:50 residential and medical.
21:20:53 You are not listening too well today.
21:20:59 But anyway, pediatric psychiatrist.
21:21:02 But what I'm saying is that the medical was changed
21:21:07 during our, my chairmanship, because I pushed it with
21:21:13 Glorida Moreda and we made some changes.
21:21:14 I think it was for every thousand, five, six parking
21:21:19 spaces if I recall, five or six.
21:21:21 Why did we do that?
21:21:23 We did that because at any time that you get near a
21:21:26 hospital, what do you have around a hospital?
21:21:32 Doctor's offices.
21:21:33 That's only natural.
21:21:34 There were doctors' office before there was a hospital.
21:21:38 But somehow they start to duplicate because that's
21:21:41 where they do their business at.
21:21:43 And that's only normal.
21:21:45 That's for a reaction, we said there's a reaction.
21:21:48 So the reaction was that the neighborhoods were getting
21:21:51 flooded with parking that they never had before.
21:21:54 So we changed the criteria, now, not coming to anyone's
21:22:00 defense, I believe there is a difference between
21:22:03 medical and dental.
21:22:05 When you go into a medical office, they're booked every
21:22:11 15, 20 minutes.
21:22:12 When I went to the dentist last week, for a little
21:22:16 filling here, I was booked for one hour.
21:22:19 They come, they numb you, they do whatever they got to
21:22:23 He talks to you like it's not going to hurt.
21:22:26 [ Laughter ]
21:22:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: He promises you you're going to walk
21:22:29 out fine.
21:22:29 And you do.
21:22:30 Didn't hurt.
21:22:31 I didn't feel it.
21:22:32 But, it takes a little longer.
21:22:36 Do I want to change it?
21:22:37 I don't believe it should be changed because it gets
21:22:39 more confusing as more laws are put into the books.
21:22:42 But it was done for the protection of the neighborhood.
21:22:47 And it was done for protection of the whole area.
21:22:52 But when you look at this location here, has certainly
21:22:55 got I think even, we had maybe 15, 20 people today.
21:22:59 We had 40 last time.
21:23:00 So at least gotten 50% better I think.
21:23:04 And I'm not saying that jokingly.
21:23:07 But there has been improvements.
21:23:09 There has been the change, remember, that's when the
21:23:11 truck was going to go in and pick up the garbage and
21:23:14 all that kind of stuff.
21:23:15 But I believe what Mr. Dingfelder says makes some, a
21:23:20 lot of sense, not some sense.
21:23:21 I'm not saying he's smart.
21:23:24 I just said he makes a lot of sense.
21:23:26 Let me get all that together.
21:23:30 But the closing of Bradford, I mean that little island
21:23:33 here, no one lives there.
21:23:37 There's a residence here, yes, I agree to it.
21:23:40 But they have, could have ingress and egress through
21:23:46 either Cleveland or -- you got to look at that, see
21:23:50 there's no damage to that individual.
21:23:51 And I think that individual has been there, if I
21:23:54 remember, from the last zoning, came with Moses.
21:23:56 Long time ago.
21:23:58 Long time ago.
21:24:00 I remember that.
21:24:01 So what I'm saying, I don't know what, where this is
21:24:06 going, other than something is going to come to this
21:24:10 piece of property.
21:24:10 And what was stated earlier, if it's not a medical
21:24:14 office, something could come here to the same size or
21:24:19 greater without coming here.
21:24:21 That he just build and do what they want to do.
21:24:25 So, it's -- I don't know if we can ask for a delay
21:24:30 I'm not trying to make everybody come back or anything
21:24:32 like that.
21:24:33 But, I think it's paramount that Bradford be closed.
21:24:39 And if that's closed, there can't be any objections.
21:24:45 I mean, that's how I feel.
21:24:47 Maybe you all feel differently.
21:24:48 But if that's closed, then you're a hundred percent
21:24:51 sure that traffic is not coming to you.
21:24:53 And I believe that what's going on is going on,
21:24:56 because, you know, got them little signs there that
21:24:59 says no parking, five minutes only.
21:25:02 So I agree with Mr. Dingfelder.
21:25:04 I don't know what the petitioner's going to say in
21:25:07 I don't know what they want to do.
21:25:09 I know it's better than what it was.
21:25:13 Is it perfect?
21:25:15 But let's see where we are at.
21:25:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Lets hear from the petitioner.
21:25:23 >> I don't know how much you want me to go into the
21:25:27 I'll make a few brief points.
21:25:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Five minutes.
21:25:30 >> Okay.
21:25:30 Thank you.
21:25:31 First, I've heard they like the building across the
21:25:36 The building across the three Street is 300 square feet
21:25:40 smaller than our building.
21:25:41 So I guess it's aesthetic issue.
21:25:44 I think we have an attractive project.
21:25:46 They're entitled to their opinion.
21:25:47 So I'm confused on that point.
21:25:49 There's two buildings, ours is one.
21:25:52 For a dental practice, doesn't make sense to make two
21:25:56 separate buildings.
21:25:57 I work for that guy over there, doesn't work for us.
21:26:00 It depletes the property values, I don't know how an
21:26:06 empty lot increases property values.
21:26:08 I think significant development of $750,000 or more is,
21:26:12 a nice project is certainly going to increase property
21:26:16 Someone said it was mixed use.
21:26:20 It's office space.
21:26:20 Two different types of office space and it's clearly
21:26:23 delineated and separated.
21:26:25 We are not trying to cheat the system.
21:26:27 Do what Mr. Campson did, which was play back and forth.
21:26:30 We are not doing any of that.
21:26:31 We would provide all the spaces required at six per
21:26:36 thousand, which the code did change a number of years
21:26:38 ago from five to six.
21:26:39 We are complying with the six.
21:26:40 Lesley Rudolph, who is the dentist, is going to occupy
21:26:53 the building.
21:26:54 Redstone, a family friend, is the contractor/developer.
21:26:57 Expertise for the project.
21:26:57 We originally did the rezoning based on that.
21:27:00 So, there's no sinister plot here to do one thing and
21:27:05 do another.
21:27:06 Lesley established her practice.
21:27:08 She's going to own the property.
21:27:10 She'll occupy the property.
21:27:11 I heard someone once said let's build 4,000 square foot
21:27:15 of medical.
21:27:17 It is actually more intensive.
21:27:18 32 spaces, not 27.
21:27:20 It brings more traffic.
21:27:22 So, we're happy with what we presented because that's
21:27:25 why we're here.
21:27:26 On the Bradford issue, I think we are amenable to find
21:27:30 out how that works.
21:27:33 Again, we are not on Bradford.
21:27:34 90% of our project is on Henderson.
21:27:38 Our curb cut is on Henderson.
21:27:40 We don't want anyone going on Bradford either.
21:27:43 So, if the city wants to cut Bradford down and I don't
21:27:48 know if we can eliminate that entire three quarter
21:27:50 block, maybe you can do just a little wedge or somehow
21:27:54 stop it, stop it, whatever.
21:27:56 And so that person to the south can still access their
21:28:00 property, we are open to that.
21:28:02 But, frankly, we really think we have a great project.
21:28:06 We worked really hard on it and we think that this
21:28:09 deserve the merit tonight for your approval.
21:28:12 Thank you.
21:28:13 I'm sorry, Lesley wants to make a quick comment too.
21:28:19 >> I just want to clarify that I am the owner of the
21:28:22 The solely owner of the property.
21:28:24 I definitely do have concerns for children and safety.
21:28:27 That's why I'm in the profession I am.
21:28:29 I love working with event I care about their welfare.
21:28:32 Many residents did express the desire for me to plant
21:28:38 I'm very happy to do that.
21:28:39 I think it will add to my property as well as to
21:28:43 And you know, I don't want to reiterate what was said
21:28:47 But I did read the transcripts and review what the
21:28:50 neighbors had to say and do my best to build something
21:28:53 that we could all appreciate and would again add to the
21:28:55 community and service the kids.
21:29:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
21:29:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We have some transportation people
21:29:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: They're going to hate the idea.
21:29:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: They always do.
21:29:14 It's okay.
21:29:16 I remember them hating every previous one.
21:29:20 But you know what?
21:29:21 It's really worked well.
21:29:22 So the question, Julia, can we City Council ask the
21:29:30 administration to take a positive look at closing
21:29:39 >>JULIA COLE: You can ask the administration to send
21:29:41 the report back to you, as to whether or not it's
21:29:44 Obviously there would be a cost associated with that.
21:29:46 Obviously, it would be with an issue in terms of
21:29:50 management and all those kinds of issues.
21:29:52 You certainly have the right to make that request of
21:29:54 transportation and the administration.
21:29:56 Come back and give that you level of information.
21:29:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And we don't need the Army corps of
21:30:01 engineer response.
21:30:02 We could do something that's, you know, appropriate to
21:30:06 what an 18-foot street.
21:30:09 >>JULIA COLE: I mean, they would have to opine as to
21:30:12 what they could do, what the costs would be, with the
21:30:15 alternatives are.
21:30:16 That would really be within their purview.
21:30:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'd like to move we continue this
21:30:21 the for 30 days until we have opportunity to hear back
21:30:24 from the administration.
21:30:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, the problem with that, the
21:30:28 applicant has asked for a vote tonight.
21:30:30 Not a continuance.
21:30:31 That was his request.
21:30:32 So, unless he is agreeable to a 30 continuance, then we
21:30:37 have to vote up or down his request.
21:30:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: He's conferring.
21:30:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Seems to me.
21:30:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, there are two issues.
21:30:47 One is the closing of the street.
21:30:48 Other issue is, I'm hearing some folks, they like the
21:30:52 building across the street better.
21:30:54 I understand that.
21:30:58 But I'm just telling you what was said.
21:31:09 >> Council, my concern again is we're taking completely
21:31:13 separate issue.
21:31:13 I understand.
21:31:16 An issue of traffic when we are not on Bradford.
21:31:19 We never have been on Bradford.
21:31:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The question is, are you amenable for a
21:31:24 30 day continuance?
21:31:25 That's the question.
21:31:30 >> Council, again, it would be either the -- if you
21:31:34 wanted it in the evening, it would either be the
21:31:36 17th of June, you have an evening meeting, or the
21:31:40 10th of June.
21:31:41 And then you go to July 27th.
21:31:51 >> Three weeks.
21:31:54 >> I understand.
21:31:56 I have discussed with it my client.
21:31:57 And we're amiable to a continuance if we can actually
21:32:02 get some resolution to this.
21:32:03 What we are not amiable is wholesale redesign of the
21:32:07 What we want to do is find a solution on Bradford.
21:32:09 If we can curtail this continuance, I don't know, able
21:32:14 to do that again, the it's just a question.
21:32:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Curtail?
21:32:19 >> To identify a specific issue, which I believe is
21:32:22 Bradford and traffic.
21:32:23 And we specifically addressed that with staff and the
21:32:26 neighborhood together.
21:32:28 On that issue.
21:32:28 Absolutely, we would be extremely happy to, for a
21:32:35 However, I personally would prefer not to open up the
21:32:38 entire can of worms, because I don't think it's
21:32:41 But with that being said, we are open to a 30 day
21:32:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
21:32:45 30 days continuance.
21:32:47 Now, my concern is, Julia come again.
21:32:51 My concern is this.
21:32:53 Administration says no, we're not going to close it
21:33:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We got to deal with it.
21:33:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's be realistic.
21:33:05 Administration could come back and say no, we're not
21:33:08 going to close it off.
21:33:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Then we'd have to make a decision.
21:33:13 >>GWEN MILLER: My concern is they already have the
21:33:14 traffic there.
21:33:15 Is this office building, they're still going to have
21:33:20 the traffic.
21:33:22 >>JULIA COLE: If I could take a moment to put this in
21:33:24 perspective where he we're legally.
21:33:26 You have a property that has a legal allowability for
21:33:30 office use.
21:33:31 So when you are looking at this you are not looking at
21:33:34 this as if nothing is there, or there's a residential
21:33:38 use there.
21:33:39 So what you have to look at is the intensity of adding
21:33:43 the medical use.
21:33:44 When it comes to the traffic question, that really
21:33:47 seems to me to be the question that everybody is
21:33:51 struggling with, on this issue of Bradford, unless
21:33:55 there's some kind of showing that there's going to be
21:33:57 traffic coming from this site, specifically going on to
21:34:00 Bradford, I am concerned that we would be making a
21:34:04 decision based upon something the administration would
21:34:07 want to do or not want to do, to deny something when
21:34:11 there is nothing in the record showing that this site
21:34:14 is generating traffic with the increase of medical on
21:34:18 to Bradford.
21:34:19 Now, I can't say that that information doesn't exist.
21:34:22 I'm just saying there's nothing in the record tonight.
21:34:25 Something you could consider doing.
21:34:27 And I throw this out there for discussion, because I
21:34:32 would caution against denying on the basis of this
21:34:35 Bradford street issue without additional evidence.
21:34:39 You could hear it on first reading.
21:34:41 Ask for the transportation department to add further
21:34:44 information in the record, second reading, A, the
21:34:47 increase of medical, how much the traffic count could
21:34:51 B, whether or not there's any additional traffic
21:34:53 generated from the site that ends up on Bradford.
21:34:56 And then, as a separate conversation, given the
21:35:00 testimony tonight, given the concerns, whether or not
21:35:03 there are some traffic calming and or road closure
21:35:07 issues the administration can deal with.
21:35:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilmember Caetano.
21:35:15 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a
21:35:17 motion for approval, based, between the first --
21:35:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Got to close the public hearing.
21:35:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You have to read the, the ordinance.
21:35:27 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: What my motion is, Mr. Chairman,
21:35:29 to approve it for the first reading.
21:35:31 And between the second reading, see if we can close
21:35:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
21:35:42 >>JULIA COLE: Be very careful, we are not going to make
21:35:44 a decision on this rezoning based upon whether or not
21:35:47 the transportation department is going to close
21:35:49 What with I'm suggesting is between first and second
21:35:52 reading, the transportation department can come back a
21:35:54 second reading and discuss this project -- if they even
21:35:59 can do.
21:35:59 I don't know if they can.
21:36:01 But how this project with the increase of medical, what
21:36:04 impact it has on Bradford and if there's more trips
21:36:07 generated by the increased medical, and there's more
21:36:10 concern that those trips could end up on Bradford, that
21:36:13 would be a valid basis for denial.
21:36:15 Because that is where you are legally in terms of the
21:36:19 As a separate question, you can ask the administration
21:36:22 to give you information relating to whether or not, not
21:36:26 withstanding this project or not, Bradford can be
21:36:29 closed or there's other traffic calming information.
21:36:32 But I really think we'd be putting ourselves in a, in a
21:36:38 quagmire if administration comes back, says they won't
21:36:41 close Bradford, and then you decide to deny this on
21:36:44 second reading.
21:36:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
21:36:47 Councilmember Dingfelder, councilmember Saul-Sena.
21:36:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Personally, I don't have enough
21:36:52 information at this point tonight to vote.
21:36:57 I believe there's an opportunity for the city to
21:37:01 participate in the mitigation of traffic from this
21:37:05 site, by doing what, what I think it sound like a lot
21:37:10 of Council would hope the administration would
21:37:13 I also would urge Mr. Shuler to use his expertise to
21:37:19 jump in there and if he's not a traffic engineer to get
21:37:23 one, and to work with our folks to find out what would
21:37:26 be involved in doing it.
21:37:28 It's not like it's without precedent.
21:37:30 We have done it before.
21:37:31 And we can do it again.
21:37:33 This isn't -- you know, you look at this.
21:37:37 It's not rocket science.
21:37:38 It doesn't close off this neighborhood.
21:37:40 You know, if anybody actually wants to cut through
21:37:44 there, they can come down a block further and make, you
21:37:47 know, and do Cleveland.
21:37:48 So, it's not going to protect the neighborhood and
21:37:51 we're not going to shut Bradford and Cleveland.
21:37:54 But, I think it's viable.
21:37:55 And I think it's worth the 20 something days to get
21:38:01 So, you know, Julia, with all your concerns and
21:38:05 warnings, which I think are totally valid, I think it's
21:38:08 worth the wait and let's see where it goes.
21:38:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The attorney has advised us, let us
21:38:14 remind us, Council, and I appreciate Council
21:38:18 Dingfelder, jewel crashes I need applicant to hear
21:38:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Could I finish my thought then?
21:38:25 Because maybe I wasn't clear.
21:38:26 And you have said this in the past.
21:38:32 If I'm forced to vote on this tonight, okay, then I've
21:38:35 heard enough testimony to vote against it.
21:38:37 Because I think the traffic through this neighborhood
21:38:39 coming from this project, okay, is potentially harmful
21:38:43 to this neighborhood period.
21:38:45 I think it needs to be mitigated one way or the other.
21:38:48 And I'd like to see if we could try and mitigate it.
21:38:51 If we can't, then, I'll see where it goes a month from
21:38:59 >> If I could ask this petitioner would be willing to
21:39:02 confirm this on the record.
21:39:03 They have indicated to me they would be willing to take
21:39:06 a 30 day continuance to discuss the traffic issue
21:39:09 further with the transportation department.
21:39:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You stated that earlier.
21:39:12 If he wants to say it again.
21:39:14 >>JULIA COLE: Well, I think he kind of said it and
21:39:16 didn't say it.
21:39:17 So if he's willing to take the 30 day continuance and
21:39:21 willing to say it on the record, would probably be the,
21:39:23 probably be appropriate for us to go ahead and consider
21:39:26 it a continuance.
21:39:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?
21:39:32 >> I'll state again, we are happy for, or okay with
21:39:36 taking a 30 day continuance to exam the traffic portion
21:39:40 of this project.
21:39:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
21:39:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: If I may, I'd like to hear from miss
21:39:48 Vizzi, who was there for two, at least three of the
21:39:52 previous times we closed streets.
21:39:53 Can I ask her to just give a citizen's perspective?
21:39:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, the only problem with that,
21:40:01 opportunity was afforded for the public to speak.
21:40:04 Miss Vizzi chose not to speak.
21:40:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: But I'm asking her a specific
21:40:08 question based on her experience as a citizen.
21:40:13 >> I would caution against that, because that's outside
21:40:16 the scope of this area that you're dealing on tonight.
21:40:22 This particular petition.
21:40:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you for your help.
21:40:28 There is a motion by councilmember Dingfelder to
21:40:31 continue this for 30 days.
21:40:33 And then that date would be July -- June 17th.
21:40:38 >> At 6:00 p.m.
21:40:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: June 17th at 6:00 p.m.
21:40:42 The motion is to continue to allow for review.
21:40:53 We have a hearing June 17th on our calendar.
21:41:04 >> Community development block grant.
21:41:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
21:41:15 >> On the 17th is the community development block grant
21:41:18 and appeal hearing on the Barrio Latino Commission
21:41:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Are you guys not available that
21:41:33 Or you want to do the 10th?
21:41:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Didn't we continue something to the
21:41:37 17th already?
21:41:39 >>GWEN MILLER: It was the 10th.
21:41:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So then it goes to the 10th of June.
21:41:43 6:00 p.m.
21:41:44 That is the motion.
21:41:46 All in favor signify by saying aye.
21:41:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Going to have a wonderful evening on
21:41:57 the tenth.
21:41:58 Third one got continued tonight to the 10th.
21:42:18 >> The next item on your agenda this evening is V10-85.
21:42:22 It's located 3008, 3010 --
21:42:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Excuse me.
21:42:27 If we can hold the conversation down, I would
21:42:29 appreciate that.
21:42:30 Council is still in session.
21:42:31 >> East Lake Avenue.
21:42:32 3703, 3707, 3717 North 30th Street.
21:42:38 The special use request is for a place of religious
21:42:43 Council, this case was before you, this is another one
21:42:46 that was in '09.
21:42:49 Oh, this was V08-62 for a 500 seat assembly.
21:42:56 And they are seeking to add a fellowship hall.
21:42:59 >> Tony Garcia, Planning Commission staff.
21:43:10 I'm going to give you all a break.
21:43:12 This is just an expansion.
21:43:13 Planning Commission staff on the proposed request
21:43:15 consistent with the comprehensive plan.
21:43:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
21:43:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Good, Mr. Tony Garcia.
21:43:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Best one you did all night.
21:43:25 [ Laughter ]
21:43:29 >>ABBYE FEELEY: This is for an expansion and addition
21:43:32 of a 9,837 square foot building for fellowship uses.
21:43:37 The number of seats is going to stay the same.
21:43:40 So the parking is staying the same.
21:43:42 We have two revisions, I provided them on the revision
21:43:47 sheet to reduce the required buffer along the southeast
21:43:49 corner from ten feet to five feet with the existing six
21:43:53 feet chain link fence and label and chain link fence on
21:43:59 the property.
21:43:59 With those two modifications made, staff would find
21:44:03 this petition consistent.
21:44:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
21:44:12 >> I'm Joseph Belt, petitioner and I'm also
21:44:17 representing the Church Manifestation.
21:44:19 We request your approval.
21:44:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here in opposition?
21:44:26 >> We agree -- anyone here in opposition?
21:44:31 >>GWEN MILLER: We have one.
21:44:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
21:44:32 Let me hear -- come on down.
21:44:40 >> My name is Thomas Akins.
21:44:45 I live 3106 East Lake Avenue.
21:44:49 Right next door to the church.
21:44:50 I do have petition signed by some of the neighbors.
21:44:55 And the neighbors have petitioners have two concerns.
21:45:01 One is parking.
21:45:04 The problem now with parking, when they have some
21:45:13 affairs, those members park anywhere they seem fit.
21:45:18 Run across lawns, very disrespectful.
21:45:23 Another concern is when they have musical programs,
21:45:27 that music is everywhere.
21:45:29 Cannot hear anything in the neighborhood.
21:45:33 The petitioners, that's another one of my concerns.
21:45:40 I don't see noise, but the sound.
21:45:43 And although I'm a contractor myself, and normally when
21:45:50 you put up a church something like that, sound barrier,
21:45:56 put up a concrete fence, not a chain Ling fence.
21:45:59 When I built buildings, they made me put a concrete
21:46:09 block fences, not chain link fences.
21:46:13 I built building on Martin Luther King.
21:46:16 That's another concern.
21:46:18 Another concern is all the additional, wouldn't that
21:46:24 affect the retention pond?
21:46:30 Wouldn't that decrease the parking spaces?
21:46:37 Like I said, I have petitioners sign this petition.
21:46:45 That he do not oppose to the addition.
21:46:47 Of the church, which I do not oppose to.
21:46:51 But, where will they park at?
21:46:54 They park on my yard, my neighbor's yard.
21:46:58 They break peoples sprinkler systems.
21:47:01 Like I say, when they have must Cal programs, are they
21:47:06 going to put up a concrete fence?
21:47:08 Chain link fence, that's for the church to park who
21:47:17 built that.
21:47:18 Those are my concerns.
21:47:21 I do have, like I said, I do have petitioners sign this
21:47:28 If you all care to look at it.
21:47:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The petitioners are opposed to the
21:47:34 >> They do not oppose.
21:47:35 They are not opposed to the church.
21:47:39 But they have some concerns.
21:47:40 The concern is parking and noise.
21:47:47 If they can resolve that they would not oppose the
21:47:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can you pass the petitions up?
21:48:02 >>GWEN MILLER: Next?
21:48:07 >> Good evening, Councilmembers.
21:48:16 My name is Catherine Walton, and I am executive
21:48:22 administrator for Manifestations worldwide.
21:48:25 This is our congregational life center that we are
21:48:28 proposing for the Church of Manifestation.
21:48:32 I know Mr. Akin personally from volunteering in excess
21:48:38 of 70 to 80 hours a week.
21:48:41 At my church.
21:48:42 We have security for every event that's held and even
21:48:50 during our regular services, that park cars.
21:48:53 As long as I have been there, I have never seen anyone
21:48:59 park in his yard.
21:49:02 And I think I have missed three services and maybe six
21:49:05 years or so.
21:49:06 We propose to purchase as the residents will sell or
21:49:12 donate to us, all of the property from East Lake to
21:49:18 Glendale back to 34th street and back over to Lake.
21:49:21 So we have a plan for parking of which we have
21:49:26 purchased one of the lots from the city.
21:49:28 One of the infill spots there that we also use as well
21:49:32 for parking.
21:49:33 To date, we have had no residence to come forth to
21:49:38 complain of parking, or vandalizing of property or
21:49:42 As a matter of fact, we are in partnership with the
21:49:46 church immediately in front of our facility where we
21:49:49 share parking in the parking lots of one another when
21:49:53 there's overflow.
21:49:54 So, I don't perceive that we'll run into parking
21:49:59 problems because we are trying to propose the purchase
21:50:03 of the properties right within our neighborhood.
21:50:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
21:50:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can I ask a question?
21:50:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Ma'am.
21:50:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I was wondering, the gentleman
21:50:18 brought up two issues.
21:50:20 One was instead of a wooden fence, masonry wall, which
21:50:23 is the usual thing that's required.
21:50:26 The bad news, it's more expensive.
21:50:28 But the good news is it, it is not required?
21:50:31 They are asking for a waiver.
21:50:33 So I figured.
21:50:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: But that's got to do with land -- it
21:50:37 doesn't have to do with the fence or transportation.
21:50:39 That's not the issue.
21:50:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Chairman, on number three, under
21:50:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You may be look at the wrong area.
21:50:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Maybe then I need to ask staff.
21:50:55 >> They are required a ten foot landscape buffer.
21:50:58 And that waiver says they want to waive down from that
21:51:00 ten foot landscape buffer to a five foot buffer with a
21:51:04 A use group A to a use group B is a ten foot planted
21:51:10 landscape buffer.
21:51:11 So they are not required the masonry wall.
21:51:13 But they are saying they can't provide the ten feet of
21:51:16 planting, so they'd like to shrink it down to five feet
21:51:19 with a wall, which provides that opacity that the
21:51:22 larger ten foot landscape would have provided.
21:51:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you for the clarification.
21:51:27 The other waiver I read, waiver number one, was to
21:51:29 reduce the required number of parking spaces from 150
21:51:34 to 99, which is a very significant reduction.
21:51:38 And I just wondered if you could address that.
21:51:43 In terms of, I mean, that's 33%.
21:51:49 >>ABBYE FEELEY: There is currently a special use on
21:51:51 this property for a place of religious assembly with
21:51:54 that waiver already approved.
21:51:56 That is not a new waiver under this request.
21:51:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you for the clarification.
21:52:01 >> We do own two other properties adjacent to our
21:52:06 church facility, which we do park there as well.
21:52:09 And the lot that we purchased from the City of Tampa.
21:52:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
21:52:13 Thank you very much.
21:52:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Did anybody mention noise?
21:52:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, let me just speak, I'm very
21:52:19 familiar with the area.
21:52:20 Right across the railroad track there.
21:52:24 Then you have the rec center right next to that.
21:52:28 Then you have friendship Baptist church.
21:52:30 Do you own the other small church?
21:52:34 All right.
21:52:35 So, what you have here is churches in this area with
21:52:38 one park and recreation center owned by the city.
21:52:43 Number of churches there.
21:52:45 That's all that's there.
21:52:46 On both sides.
21:52:47 Except for one house on the corner.
21:52:49 And apartments in the back.
21:52:52 I guess the issue though is, what's before us, is
21:53:00 really not noise issue.
21:53:01 The issue before us is the granting of the fellowship
21:53:06 I can also tell you that if a large at the rec center,
21:53:18 traffic could spill over.
21:53:19 Or if all the churches are meeting at one time, also
21:53:23 that generates a lot of, you know, parking around the
21:53:28 But I do know they have quite a bit of considerable
21:53:33 parking that's there, grass is not paved, grass area.
21:53:38 I guess I will just only ask if they would just be more
21:53:42 considerate in terms of their, the noise issue to the
21:53:50 And the parking issue, not issue, a waiver has already
21:53:54 been granted for that, so that's not even on the table.
21:53:57 Buffer, they would meet the requirements based on what
21:53:59 Miss Feeley has given us in terms of revision.
21:54:02 Soy, I guess, I guess Council, I guess we need to hear
21:54:08 from the applicant.
21:54:13 >>GWEN MILLER: We have another speaker.
21:54:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Come on, sir.
21:54:17 I'm sorry.
21:54:17 >> My name is Rick Del Rio, I have been sworn in.
21:54:21 I am retired from the City of Tampa as the chief
21:54:25 building and site inspector.
21:54:27 I have been working with the reverend on this
21:54:31 fellowship hall for free.
21:54:33 I have been very impressed with this operation.
21:54:37 And I the tell you, that if parking is the worst
21:54:42 problem that we have from a churches being active at
21:54:47 the same time, I think we have been blessed.
21:54:49 I was very impressed with the church from the
21:54:56 I asked a question.
21:54:58 Across the front area, on the inside of the church, it
21:55:02 says Manifestation.
21:55:03 And I was very curious what he meant by Manifestation.
21:55:08 And I'm also retired from the Air Force reserve.
21:55:13 So I appreciate the military.
21:55:16 Manifestation, he says, is what they promote, which is
21:55:24 be all that you can be.
21:55:26 Just like the Army.
21:55:28 Their goal is to develop people.
21:55:33 I have seen firsthand, I have been working with the
21:55:36 church for two years now.
21:55:39 I've seen firsthand where they're pulling people and
21:55:42 helping them.
21:55:43 They're giving people who have no faith or little
21:55:46 faith, faith in their future.
21:55:48 They are giving them hope.
21:55:50 They are not turning anybody away.
21:55:52 I walked in there one day and I had a problem.
21:55:56 The reverend Jones right away, Dr. Jones, right away
21:56:03 sensed that I had a problem, and tried, and did help
21:56:08 Part of the original PD was a building that was
21:57:03 supposed to be erected there that was a modular unit.
21:57:09 Let's face it, a trailer.
21:57:11 Okay, that's gone away.
21:57:12 That's going to be parking and that's going to be the
21:57:14 underground storage is going to be.
21:57:16 Don't ever be a building there.
21:57:17 Because you're not going to be able to build on top of
21:57:21 the underground storage.
21:57:22 And there was also a very large gazebo that was part of
21:57:26 that PD.
21:57:27 Which is going away.
21:57:28 So, the addition of this fellowship hall does not
21:57:34 increase the attendance to the sanctuary.
21:57:38 The sanctuary is staying the same.
21:57:41 What it's doing is providing services to the people of
21:57:46 the neighborhood.
21:57:46 It services the government.
21:57:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That means your time is up, sir.
21:57:54 >> I'm just saying he is doing something, the city
21:57:56 can't afford to pay or the government can't afford.
21:58:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'll tell pastor Jones you delivered a
21:58:03 wonderful sermon tonight.
21:58:06 The applicant, you want to present anything else?
21:58:10 Again, I just want to say to Mr. Akins, I think the
21:58:14 church will be very amenable to your concern and issue
21:58:17 I know Dr. Jones personally.
21:58:20 I'm familiar with that area.
21:58:21 My church is right down the street from there.
21:58:26 There's a lot of churches in that area.
21:58:28 And generally churches is a complement to the
21:58:32 So I think that hearing from the administrator that
21:58:37 they will certainly, Mr. Akins, be cognizant, aware of
21:58:41 your concerns and issue.
21:58:42 I think the traffic, or the parking issue, they have
21:58:46 already addressed that.
21:58:47 And so, I think we can pretty much close this.
21:58:52 >> Mr. Chairman, you have plenty of parking in your
21:58:55 >> I could use some more, but yes, I have quite a bit
21:58:57 of parking.
21:58:58 I need some more, yeah.
21:58:59 You know, when recession set in, more folks come to
21:59:06 All in favor signify by saying aye.
21:59:10 Opposes? Okay.
21:59:13 Councilmember Miller, you want to read.
21:59:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Before I read, I'd like to include all
21:59:26 the waivers that need to be added.
21:59:30 >> There's a revision sheet with two bullets on it.
21:59:34 >>GWEN MILLER: An ordinance approving a special use
21:59:36 permit S-2, approving a place of religious assembly in
21:59:40 an RS-50 residential single-family and CN commercial
21:59:45 neighborhood zoning district in the general vicinity of
21:59:47 3008, 3010, and 3201 East Lake Avenue and 3703, 3707
21:59:55 and 3717, North 30th Street in the City of Tampa,
21:59:58 Florida, as more particularly described in section one
22:00:01 here, providing an effective date.
22:00:04 >> Second.
22:00:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moves and second.
22:00:05 Yes, sir?
22:00:06 >> Mr. Chairman, I'm sorry to interrupt.
22:00:08 But you did state you knew some of the parties that
22:00:10 were involved.
22:00:11 And your church is very -- located very close by.
22:00:14 It's my opinion based on what I've heard, that this
22:00:18 would not inure to your special private gain or loss,
22:00:21 and it's my opinion it's absolutely appropriate --
22:00:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'm not a member of the church.
22:00:25 I know a lot of pastors in the city.
22:00:29 And I have not had any conversation with anybody from
22:00:32 the church, or anybody as far as that matter.
22:00:36 However, whenever the project, I try to go by and visit
22:00:40 the site.
22:00:43 Thank you.
22:00:43 All in favor signify by saying aye.
22:00:50 >> Motion carried with Mulhern being absent.
22:00:52 Second reading and adoption will be on June 24 at 9:30
22:01:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This is our last item for the evening.
22:01:42 >> I believe that Councilmember Miller referred to that
22:01:47 Council, the last case before you this evening is
22:01:57 V10-103, it's located at 106 and 108 Renellie Drive.
22:02:04 This was before you on April 8th.
22:02:08 And I don't believe that we got to make any of our
22:02:13 presentations on the case.
22:02:15 It is a request for off street commercial parking.
22:02:20 And I'll let Mr. Garcia.
22:02:32 >>TONY GARCIA: Everyone's just a little bit tired, I
22:02:36 Tony Garcia, Planning Commission staff.
22:02:38 I have been sworn.
22:02:39 Several comments regarding.
22:02:43 This is the only one not in the central Tampa district
22:02:48 this evening.
22:02:49 This one is in the South Tampa district.
22:02:52 It's right about here.
22:02:53 So it's right on the edge of this particular district.
22:02:59 So your South Tampa district is not really a district
22:03:02 that we're focusing redevelopment and regrowth but it
22:03:06 does allow opportunities for infill development and
22:03:09 complementary development or ancillary development.
22:03:12 Which is the case right here in this particular
22:03:15 The request is for a parking lot to support the
22:03:24 commercial use, which is located right here on north
22:03:27 moody Boulevard.
22:03:28 This is located in the general vicinity of the
22:03:30 southeast corner of the intersection of Westshore
22:03:34 Boulevard and Kennedy Boulevard.
22:03:35 So you have you -- this is regional mixed use 100 right
22:03:41 over here.
22:03:42 I think we all know this is -- right over here, Taco
22:03:47 Bell is across the street.
22:03:50 I think there's a Burger King down the street too.
22:03:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: A new place is Gogos.
22:03:56 >> I haven't been to Gogos yet.
22:03:59 Anyway, the request is for this particular site, the
22:04:03 site along Renellie directly interfaces the loading
22:04:10 areas for this shopping center, which has been in
22:04:12 existence for quite a long time, but I think
22:04:15 retrofitted 10, 15 years ago.
22:04:18 15 years ago?
22:04:19 More or less.
22:04:19 So there was a lot of older use of the old Kash 'n
22:04:23 Karry was here.
22:04:24 A tuck see dough shop down here, a variety of things.
22:04:27 So anyway, this has been around for quite a long time,
22:04:30 probably 40, 45 years.
22:04:31 Mr. Miranda probably remembers what was there 45 years
22:04:37 ago at least, I'm sure.
22:04:38 So, we have got all these commercial uses over here.
22:04:41 There is a bank over here.
22:04:42 That I think Miss Feeley is going to speak to.
22:04:45 Generally speaking.
22:04:47 And of course we have the use over here, which is
22:04:50 proposed for a parking area.
22:04:53 You have one residential use to the south over here.
22:04:56 It's the site directly abuts.
22:04:58 I think it's in proximity to another commercial use,
22:05:01 residential use to the east over here, but it is, it's
22:05:06 a heavily treed and canopied area.
22:05:09 A little cluster of the site.
22:05:12 You can see this the vacant area being proposed to be
22:05:15 used for ancillary parking.
22:05:17 There's some parking in there right now.
22:05:19 Basically the uses that is being requested is
22:05:24 consistent even within the residential six lane
22:05:27 category, to allow ancillary parking for that use to
22:05:30 the north.
22:05:31 They have to meet of course the proper buffer
22:05:34 If they are adjacent to any commercial uses or of
22:05:37 course residential uses.
22:05:38 Planning Commission staffer finds the proposed request
22:05:40 consistent with the comprehensive plan.
22:05:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Mr. Garcia.
22:05:45 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Abbye Feeley, land development.
22:05:47 As Mr. Garcia, stated this is a request for a parking
22:05:52 special use for parking lot.
22:05:54 First thing I'd like to do, on the waivers listed in
22:05:57 the staff report, first one is allow non-residential
22:06:00 access to a local street.
22:06:01 That can be removed.
22:06:02 This property only has access to a local street,
22:06:04 therefore a waiver is not necessary.
22:06:06 Under this request.
22:06:07 There are two other waivers and that is to allow the
22:06:13 parking area to extend more than 100 feet into the
22:06:15 surrounding residential property abutting the closest
22:06:19 And the second is to reduce landscape buffer from
22:06:22 15-foot with six foot masonry wall to 15-foot with six
22:06:25 foot wood fence along the south.
22:06:27 Here is the zoning atlas.
22:06:33 As you can see, Renellie to the west, this is
22:06:37 Westshore, one street over to the west, Kennedy to the
22:06:41 Trask to the east, and Cleveland to the south.
22:06:43 As you can see, predominantly CG.
22:06:47 The CG comes all the way back to Cleveland, as many of
22:06:50 you might be familiar, that is Panera bread.
22:06:54 And the shopping center with that.
22:06:56 Along Kennedy, there is commercial general.
22:06:59 Uses there, as well, which this lot will serve, this
22:07:05 strip center here that has a mix of uses.
22:07:08 Here is the aerial again.
22:07:17 You can see a portion of this is being used for
22:07:22 Dumpsters currently located on this property.
22:07:25 The dumpster through this application will be enhanced,
22:07:28 placed in an enclosure.
22:07:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Where is the dumpster now?
22:07:36 >>ABBYE FEELEY: It's under this tree.
22:07:38 I'll show you.
22:07:39 I stopped by this morning after I found out I'd be
22:07:43 handling cases this evening.
22:07:44 I'll show you my pick the tours.
22:07:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Dumpster is pretty far from the
22:07:49 residential right now.
22:07:51 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Yes.
22:07:51 Here's a picture of the site.
22:07:56 Looking downed Kennedy -- down Kennedy.
22:08:08 The sun was just coming up this morning.
22:08:17 This is a picture, picture of the site.
22:08:21 That tree is going to be retained.
22:08:23 This is looking northeast.
22:08:28 Dumpster right now is right under there.
22:08:31 This is a picture of the house immediately to the
22:08:36 And one down from there.
22:08:41 This is looking up Renellie toward Kennedy.
22:08:48 Looking immediately across the street.
22:08:58 Actually I have another couple interesting ones from
22:09:02 that perspective.
22:09:03 But here is the back of the existing shopping center
22:09:07 that this will serve.
22:09:08 The sun was beating down on me.
22:09:10 This is the Gogos Greek restaurant.
22:09:14 Let me find that one.
22:09:19 This is directly looking west.
22:09:23 And let me find the one where the one today is, because
22:09:28 I swore I took it.
22:09:29 This is the dumpsters on-site right now.
22:09:42 And it's in the parking area.
22:09:44 Part of this application will actually go into an
22:10:00 enclosure, as you can see on your site plans.
22:10:02 If I can put this up.
22:10:31 Where it was today is over in this area.
22:10:35 And it's going to be moved back to the back of the
22:10:48 And placed in an enclosure.
22:10:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Right next to the single-family
22:11:01 >>ABBYE FEELEY: It's 40 feet.
22:11:02 38 -- 31.8 to the start of the parking, so, it's
22:11:08 probably about 32 or 33 feet from that residential
22:11:13 property line.
22:11:13 You can see the dimension to the start of the parking
22:11:17 is 31.8 on the plan.
22:11:18 And then you're going to go a little bit further and
22:11:21 then it will be in a required masonry wall type
22:11:25 There are some modifications and final revisions that
22:11:30 are required for this.
22:11:32 Staff did find it inconsistent.
22:11:34 Based on those items.
22:11:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do you want to testify about the
22:11:42 noise of a dumpster being dumped at 6:00 in the
22:11:45 morning, 40 feet from your bedroom?
22:11:50 >>ABBYE FEELEY: No.
22:11:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't think 40 feet is very
22:11:53 And frankly, when the dumptruck comes along, and bangs
22:11:57 it up here like this, okay, which those dumptrucks do,
22:12:01 at 6:00 in the morning, then an enclosure doesn't help.
22:12:04 And I speak from experience.
22:12:11 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Mr. Dingfelder, I knew, given our
22:12:16 discussion at the beginning of last hearing, that there
22:12:19 were some concerns about that.
22:12:20 That's part of the reason why I took that picture from
22:12:23 the south end of Renellie looking north.
22:12:26 I counted ten dumpsters, the majority not in closer,
22:12:30 very close.
22:12:31 I knew that was of a concern to you.
22:12:34 So, I think in relationship to this, it is an
22:12:39 improvement, that it's being placed there.
22:12:41 I think part of what was going on in the design of this
22:12:43 site was retention of some trees and given the turning
22:12:47 radius of the truck this was the preferred location.
22:12:51 But I can let him speak to that further.
22:12:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't think he lives there either.
22:12:57 Thank you.
22:13:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Madam Chair, on the letter I
22:13:05 They say here that certain times of the week, they're
22:13:15 waken up by the dumpster being moved at 4:00 in the
22:13:19 I thought that the regulations call for 6:00 in the
22:13:26 But I'm going to tell you I know they pick up at 4:30
22:13:30 in the morning because I went through that even with my
22:13:32 wife's sickness.
22:13:34 Picking it up at 4:30 in the morning.
22:13:36 One door from my house.
22:13:39 >> Vince Reynolds, solid waste.
22:13:42 That was brought up on the April 8th meeting, by
22:13:45 Mr. Dingfelder.
22:13:46 And April 9th, I confirmed that with operations.
22:13:50 They assured me that the collection time is no earlier,
22:13:53 between 5:15 and 5:45.
22:13:56 Only because you cannot get down Renellie any time
22:14:00 after 6:00 a.m. because delivery trucks.
22:14:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: My question is, what does the code
22:14:07 >> According to the noise ordinance for the City of
22:14:13 Tampa, the solid waste utilities department is exempt
22:14:17 from noise.
22:14:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Exempt?
22:14:20 >> Yep.
22:14:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You know, that code must change, or
22:14:25 either I died and don't know it.
22:14:27 Because I always swore it was 6:00 in the morning.
22:14:30 >> Currently states --
22:14:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: How can we exempt ourselves?
22:14:35 >> States 7:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m.
22:14:37 And down further in the noise ordinance, it states.
22:14:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It was an exception we gave years
22:14:47 back in construction.
22:14:48 When something had to be built in a rush, and we agreed
22:14:52 to -- I believe starting as early as 7:00 in the
22:14:56 morning, and even on weekends, starting at 9:00 or
22:15:00 I remember that.
22:15:01 And I don't know what happened.
22:15:02 I guess that was an emergency thing that happened.
22:15:05 When we had to do things in the city.
22:15:08 But I don't recall that at all.
22:15:09 That we were exempt.
22:15:23 >> The construction issue you're talking about may not
22:15:25 be in the noise ordinance.
22:15:27 There may be something in chapter five.
22:15:29 Off the top of my head relating to when you can start
22:15:33 There's an opportunity for the building official to
22:15:35 allow construction to go beyond that time in caves
22:15:38 emergency, or you know, if there's other accommodations
22:15:41 made, that's not part of the noise ordinance.
22:15:43 What Vince is reading from is the noise ordinance.
22:15:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I think when we did the stadium,
22:15:48 building the stadium.
22:16:01 >> I mean, it's accurate reflection of what's in the
22:16:04 noise ordinance as it pertains to when noise allowed
22:16:09 could occur.
22:16:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: City can pick up all night long,
22:16:17 because, because the city is the city.
22:16:23 >> Like I said, operations tries to start 5:00.
22:16:28 They don't go all night long.
22:16:32 Downtown does get picked up at night, but not all night
22:16:36 Also the required setback from residential to
22:16:39 commercial is 15 foot buffer.
22:16:42 This petition require -- providing 36 feet I believe.
22:16:46 From the south residential property.
22:16:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
22:16:58 >> Good evening, Council.
22:17:00 Joseph Diaz, my office at 2522 West Kennedy Boulevard.
22:17:05 We have ancillary parking facility that now
22:17:08 accommodates 14 vehicles.
22:17:10 We're trying to redesign that parking lot so that we
22:17:14 can get up to somewhere around 34 vehicles.
22:17:17 It seems like one of the super major issues in here are
22:17:22 these Dumpsters.
22:17:23 If I may share some photographs with you for a second.
22:17:25 That is what with we presently have, presently
22:17:34 Those dumpsters are about 60 feet from the property to
22:17:40 the south.
22:17:49 >> The property to the south?
22:17:51 >> That would be the residential property.
22:17:52 Property to the south would be the residential
22:17:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Where the house is?
22:18:00 Or the vacant property?
22:18:02 >> No, no, from where the dumpsters are, to that home
22:18:05 that you see in the back.
22:18:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's not to the south.
22:18:12 >> That's to the south.
22:18:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: All right.
22:18:17 I thought the prior picture we saw showed them being
22:18:24 closer to the tree.
22:18:26 For some reason.
22:18:28 >> That's where they are.
22:18:29 Look, all the property to the west is CG.
22:18:32 All the property to the north is CG.
22:18:34 All the property to the east is CN.
22:18:37 CN extends beyond our property, goes past where that
22:18:42 residential property is at back there.
22:18:44 That's what we presently have right now.
22:18:48 We're hearing a lot about Dumpsters.
22:18:54 Lets talk about dumpsters for a minute.
22:18:56 These first two Dumpsters that you see belong to Panera
22:19:03 They're the closest to Kennedy Boulevard.
22:19:05 These next three dumpsters that you see belong to
22:19:16 Starbucks with.
22:19:16 They're standing in our property and you're looking to
22:19:28 the back of Starbucks, there's our existing dumpsters,
22:19:33 there are the three Starbucks dumpsters further south.
22:19:36 By the time that you relocate these two dumpsters to
22:19:40 the new dumpster location, they're going to be almost
22:19:43 in line with those Starbucks dumpsters that you see
22:19:47 right there.
22:19:47 So now, we have accounted for two up at Panera and
22:19:53 three at Starbucks, that's five dumpsters.
22:19:56 And here are five more dumpsters in between he the
22:20:05 Panera bread dumpster and Cleveland.
22:20:07 There are a total of ten dumpsters in addition to our
22:20:13 And what the net effect of our proposal is, is to move
22:20:17 our dumpsters 30 feet to the south.
22:20:19 I know that you got a letter last time that raised a
22:20:30 whole lot of concern for you, Mr. Dingfelder.
22:20:32 Well, lets look at that letter.
22:20:35 That let ser written by someone who says we are
22:20:38 residents of a lot adjacent to the subject property.
22:20:41 First of all, we are on Renellie and he's on Trask.
22:20:50 He's the second house off of Cleveland.
22:20:53 If you granted our application and we relocated our
22:20:57 dumpster, it would be 220 feet from our dumpster to his
22:21:01 northernmost property line.
22:21:02 He then goes on to talk to you about the fact that the
22:21:08 dumpsters that are in the shopping center, those are
22:21:10 those ten dumpsters on the west side of Renellie,
22:21:14 that's not our two dumpsters.
22:21:15 And he goes on to say if there is a dumpster at the
22:21:18 rear of the parking lot, there are already two
22:21:20 dumpsters there.
22:21:21 We are just going to move them 30 feet.
22:21:24 All that's going to happen.
22:21:25 If you look at our site plan, you're going to see that
22:21:30 there's just shy of 32 feet from the edge of the
22:21:33 pavement to the south property line.
22:21:35 And the enclosure is about five feet north of that.
22:21:39 Which means that we are going to be about 37 feet from
22:21:44 residentially zoned property and city code says
22:21:47 15 feet.
22:21:48 We're more than double that distance.
22:21:51 He talks about rodents.
22:21:56 He once again is talking about the shopping center and
22:21:58 if dumpsters are placed.
22:22:00 He wants to talk about lighting.
22:22:05 All of our lighting has got to be oriented in a
22:22:09 northerly direction, away from the property to the
22:22:12 south, or in a westerly direction away from the CN to
22:22:17 the east.
22:22:17 And he talks about traffic.
22:22:22 I don't know why on God's earth anybody would want to
22:22:25 come out of this parking lot on Renellie and brave down
22:22:29 Trask street.
22:22:30 I mean he, they'd either turn right and head east and
22:22:35 west on Kennedy, why they turn left to turn back on to
22:22:40 Trask again, I haven't got the foggiest.
22:22:44 As far as the city saying it's inconsistent, if you
22:22:51 look at what the inconsistencies are, and I'm telling
22:22:55 you that we'll do all of them.
22:22:58 Whether they're telling us they want us to put striping
22:23:01 and put no parking.
22:23:02 No problem.
22:23:03 They want us to tell you how many parking spaces or on
22:23:07 the site.
22:23:08 No problem.
22:23:08 We'll be more than glad to do it.
22:23:10 They want us to change title of depiction on the site
22:23:13 Be more than glad to do it.
22:23:15 They want us to relocate the dumpster and move it a
22:23:20 little bit further to the west, so that it will be a
22:23:26 clear entrance from the trucks.
22:23:27 Move it away from the CN property to the east.
22:23:30 We're not moving it any closer to the residential
22:23:33 property to the south.
22:23:39 With respect to one of the waivers I think is a little
22:23:48 misleading and I don't have anybody to blame but
22:23:52 The waiver says that we're asking for a 15-foot buffer.
22:23:56 If you look at the site plan, the real buffer is
22:23:59 31.8 feet.
22:24:00 It's not 15 feet.
22:24:02 That's along the south side of the property.
22:24:07 Along the south end of the property.
22:24:10 Look, we really think that we're doing a wonderful
22:24:15 thing to improve this site.
22:24:18 We are not removing a single tree, not a single oak
22:24:24 tree from that site.
22:24:25 The only tree that we're removing is, Mary wants us to
22:24:31 remove a palm tree that's basically at the property
22:24:34 I guess we're going to hear some opposition, so I'd
22:24:50 like to reserve some time so I might be able to respond
22:24:54 to it.
22:24:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilmember Dingfelder?
22:25:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Abbye, the current use on the
22:25:05 northernmost lot, 106, South Renellie, it has parking
22:25:13 that has parking and I know you're pinch-hitting
22:25:17 tonight, but I appreciate it.
22:25:18 That has parking and the two dumpsters.
22:25:21 Is that a legal use right now?
22:25:23 Is that a permitted properly zoned use right now?
22:25:31 >>ABBYE FEELEY: No, they're under citation.
22:25:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm not talking about citation.
22:25:36 >> But for using the lot for parking.
22:25:38 Is what the issue is.
22:25:40 On that piece.
22:25:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is my question clear?
22:25:45 Let me know because I'm not understanding you.
22:25:49 >> He said adjacent to the commercial is that.
22:25:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Right, is it a legal use right now?
22:25:56 >> No.
22:25:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
22:25:58 >> They're under citation.
22:26:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: They are under citation?
22:26:02 I couldn't understand you.
22:26:03 I'm sorry.
22:26:04 It's getting late.
22:26:05 >> Sorry.
22:26:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You got rebuttal in a couple
22:26:12 So my point is, is you can say well this is an improved
22:26:18 location, this is a better location for the dumpster
22:26:20 than where it is.
22:26:21 Etcetera, etcetera.
22:26:22 The dumpster is not even, is not even allowed on that
22:26:27 lot right now, is that correct?
22:26:31 >>ABBYE FEELEY: On where they're showing it on the site
22:26:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No, on where it physically is today,
22:26:37 okay, in the northern lot, I think, looks like it's on
22:26:42 the northern lot or maybe its right on the lane.
22:26:45 But regardless, are either of those dumpsters legally
22:26:48 allowed there today?
22:26:49 I know they have been there, or they exist.
22:26:51 They got there.
22:26:52 But are they legally allowed there?
22:26:58 >>ABBYE FEELEY: I had to check with solid waste, I'm
22:27:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm just asking from a zoning
22:27:06 >>ABBYE FEELEY: I can't speak to the nonconformity of
22:27:09 this lot.
22:27:09 A lot of these lots along there, I traveled that border
22:27:13 this morning.
22:27:14 There are a lot that go a lot deeper.
22:27:16 So I can't speak to whether or not that those dumpsters
22:27:19 have been there for 30 years.
22:27:21 You know, and how that site was developed.
22:27:23 That's a much older development on the front of Kennedy
22:27:26 and how that's being serviced in the back.
22:27:28 So I don't feel comfortable telling you they're legal
22:27:31 non-con forging.
22:27:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let me just ask one question.
22:27:36 What's the citation for?
22:27:37 Who cited them?
22:27:39 >> For the parking lot use, is according to mine, they
22:27:42 were cited under 0905227 for parking lot use on the
22:27:47 So they're coming in to now make that legal.
22:27:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And why was the parking lot use not
22:27:56 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Because it's residentially rezoned.
22:27:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Exactly.
22:27:59 So common sense, dumpsters wouldn't be allowed out in
22:28:02 the middle of a residentially zoned lot?
22:28:04 So my whole point though, you can rebut this when you
22:28:07 get your chance, is to say that you know, this, to
22:28:11 moving them south closer to that house closer to the
22:28:14 other houses, better location, blah-blah-blah, first
22:28:18 you got to deal with the fact that the entire use has
22:28:21 not been legal all along.
22:28:23 That's why you got the citation.
22:28:25 So I think we sort of have to back up a little bit and
22:28:27 start there.
22:28:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions, Council?
22:28:34 Pardon me?
22:28:35 Public comment.
22:28:41 >> March that Vizzi, I have been sworn.
22:28:47 I don't know if I can still talk.
22:28:49 Ought to be in bed by now.
22:28:51 But I'm speaking for the Beach Park homeowners
22:28:57 And the board always takes the position, we are given
22:29:06 that not only authority, but the, that's what our
22:29:10 membership tells us to do, to protect the neighborhood.
22:29:13 You may wonder why those people who are living in those
22:29:17 homes aren't here this evening.
22:29:18 Those are all rentals.
22:29:20 As far as this particular property, when the man who
22:29:24 bought it last, there were homes on those two lots.
22:29:29 They tore them down.
22:29:31 He came to us before he bought it, and asked us if we
22:29:36 would support a land use change.
22:29:38 And we said no.
22:29:40 Because those are homes.
22:29:43 That are on that property.
22:29:45 People lived in them.
22:29:47 It's a very convenient place to live.
22:29:51 They did put up what was across the street, they were
22:29:56 I don't know what they paid for the rentals.
22:29:58 But I do know that the owners close to Cleveland paid a
22:30:02 lot of money to renovate the homes at the end of
22:30:05 Where this, these dumpsters would be closer to.
22:30:09 But what he's not bringing out is that they're also
22:30:15 going to be close to the people who are on Trask, who
22:30:19 don't hear the dumpsters across the street.
22:30:22 And they will now hear these dumpsters being dumped.
22:30:26 At whatever time they decide to pick up.
22:30:30 We are concerned and he's asking for the reduction of a
22:30:36 fence to a wood fence.
22:30:38 If you decide to do this, please make him put up the --
22:30:47 as I said, I won't with be able to speak.
22:30:49 But you know what I mean.
22:30:51 The masonry fence.
22:30:52 And also, if you decide to do this and we hope you
22:30:55 don't, because we're concerned of more dense use of the
22:31:02 building that is on Cleveland.
22:31:04 I mean on Kennedy.
22:31:07 Because when they redeveloped that after it burned,
22:31:11 they supposedly had enough parking for that use then.
22:31:15 So we do not know what the ulterior motive is of making
22:31:21 this now all this additional parking.
22:31:23 There has to be some reason for doing that.
22:31:27 But we don't know.
22:31:28 But again, the wall and the other issue, and here I
22:31:32 will talk about the neighborhood traffic.
22:31:34 If you do allow this, please make them put in the pork
22:31:40 chops to take that traffic back to Kennedy Boulevard,
22:31:44 or those things that you just had to put over at the
22:31:48 Home Depot.
22:31:48 But the place, the replacing of the dumpsters are a
22:31:54 great concern.
22:31:55 The fact that they're asking nothing masonry wall, and
22:32:00 the issue of the traffic, additional traffic.
22:32:04 Evidently they're saying they're going to be generating
22:32:09 more traffic, so that's what we don't understand.
22:32:11 We would like you to deny this because it is a
22:32:16 commercial use in the residentially zoned property.
22:32:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, ma'am.
22:32:21 >> Which as I say, people will live in if the house had
22:32:24 been still there.
22:32:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
22:32:26 Next speaker?
22:32:33 >> Good evening.
22:32:35 My name is Joseph Phillip, Jr.
22:32:37 I live at 201 South Trask Street, 33609.
22:32:41 And I have been sworn in.
22:32:42 I'm an 09er.
22:32:45 33609, and I like my neighborhood a lot.
22:32:49 I'm currently under the apprenticeship of Mrs. Vizzi.
22:32:57 [ Laughter ]
22:32:58 >> And hope to be here again in the future many, many
22:33:01 I'm a lifelong resident.
22:33:03 May I show some of these?
22:33:08 >> Please.
22:33:10 >> The reason some of our neighbors are not here
22:33:13 because you can't read the sign, okay, it's been faded
22:33:17 Bleached out.
22:33:18 Can't read it.
22:33:21 Father Hartman at Jesuit high school taught me how to
22:33:29 count pretty good.
22:33:31 I've counted 34 parking spaces on this parcel.
22:33:34 So I don't know how you can go from 34 or 14 or 17 or
22:33:38 whatever the counselor said.
22:33:40 But here's a shot from the north.
22:33:42 And I have taken a couple pick the tours.
22:33:44 And you can tell by is a -- the shadows, it's around
22:33:49 This is predominantly a lunch place.
22:33:51 I love the Euros.
22:33:53 They're good.
22:33:54 And I also use that FedEx office sometimes because it's
22:33:58 really convenient for me.
22:34:01 But to change the nature of the neighborhood, it's
22:34:05 There's plenty of parking here the way it is now.
22:34:07 Plenty of parking.
22:34:08 Even during the hours of 12:00 to 2:00.
22:34:11 Would I noticed when I went in there for lunch, I saw
22:34:16 34 people eating lunch about 12:30 in the afternoon.
22:34:19 And I counted ten employee go-go shirts.
22:34:23 So, I was in a restaurant business when I was in high
22:34:27 I don't know why you need so many employees parking
22:34:30 back there.
22:34:31 When you only got 34 seats in the place.
22:34:33 Another thing I'm concerned about is, this building,
22:34:41 this was Edy's ice cream and Blimpie's subs, two great
22:34:49 places to eat.
22:34:49 This was the Blimpie's and this was Edy's ice cream.
22:34:53 Now the lot in question behind it are two contiguous
22:34:58 When the owner purchased the property, the owner knew
22:35:02 then that time that there was two parcels, one was
22:35:05 zoned residential, one was zoned commercial.
22:35:08 So to am co back three, four years later and claim
22:35:10 ignorance or they want re-do it, I don't understand
22:35:14 With us it's very important to notice is that these two
22:35:19 buildings look brand new.
22:35:20 But actually, I watched them build it.
22:35:23 They left the foundation there.
22:35:24 I don't know why you would leave the foundation on the
22:35:27 building and then leave the bearing walls here, here
22:35:31 and here.
22:35:32 I thought it was cheaper just to tear the building down
22:35:37 and rebuild.
22:35:38 So I'm trying to figure out -- there's something rotten
22:35:41 in Denmark.
22:35:42 Why would somebody not just build a brand new building?
22:35:44 I think we all know why.
22:35:46 I think the cat is out of the bag.
22:35:48 And what we're concerned about is this.
22:35:50 If this variance is granted, that building can be torn
22:35:55 down and they can put a Seasons 52 or Outback
22:36:00 steakhouse or anything and turn that into something it
22:36:04 wasn't designed for.
22:36:05 Which is Edy's ice cream and Blimpie's sub.
22:36:11 Thank you.
22:36:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else from the public?
22:36:16 Mr. Diaz.
22:36:19 >> Let me put this picture back.
22:36:24 There's a fence right here, Mr. Dingfelder.
22:36:32 It's also depicted on the site plan and that fence is
22:36:36 roughly about the middle of the parking lot.
22:36:39 I'm going to tell that you all the parking north of
22:36:42 that fence and those dumpsters are legal.
22:36:44 I'm going to tell that you the citation that we got is
22:36:49 because they have been parking south of the chain link
22:36:55 All the parking north of the chain link fence entirely
22:37:00 So if you turn in application down, the dumpsters will
22:37:06 stay there, and the parking will continue up to the
22:37:09 chain link fence.
22:37:10 We talk about it's a very convenient place to live and
22:37:16 it's a beautiful place, except apparently nobody lives
22:37:19 there but renters.
22:37:20 And I don't know who in their right mind would want to
22:37:23 buy residential property to build a brand new home
22:37:25 facing the back of that humongous development on
22:37:29 Kennedy and Westshore, with ten dumpsters in front of
22:37:33 their house.
22:37:34 The building and the businesses have all been permitted
22:37:47 and are there with the city.
22:37:49 There is nothing illegal.
22:37:52 As a matter of fact, Gogos opened February last years.
22:37:57 And at that time, it had to go through the whole
22:38:00 And the parking was approved for the facility.
22:38:03 We're coming in here, I think city staff will tell you,
22:38:08 that long before we got at this location, Renellie has
22:38:12 been a nightmare because of Pinellas, Starbucks and
22:38:16 what's going on in that development.
22:38:18 We're actually going to improve the scenario, we are
22:38:22 going to put a parking lot there.
22:38:24 Yeah, we know they come and park on our property.
22:38:27 What we're telling you, Council, is, we're going to
22:38:49 make a phenomenal improvement to a scenario that's in
22:38:54 And the whole net effect is we're moving dumpsters
22:38:58 30 feet.
22:38:59 That's the whole net effect of this development.
22:39:02 Now, if you're going to tell me that that 30 feet is
22:39:07 that critical in noise, when we are dealing with these
22:39:12 dumpsters, then I find that somewhat surprising.
22:39:16 So, that this noise issue is going to be affected one
22:39:22 way or the other, the property to the east of us is all
22:39:28 CN, well past us.
22:39:30 For another two and a half lots, the it's still CN.
22:39:33 We would respectfully request that you approve our
22:39:38 application and we're telling you that we are willing
22:39:40 to do all of the matters that they have found for the
22:39:44 basis for their inconsistency.
22:39:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions from Council?
22:39:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have just a statement, if I may.
22:39:55 I'm looking at the properties to the east, and does
22:40:00 that parking area go beyond what we're looking at?
22:40:05 And then why wouldn't you put a masonry wall?
22:40:12 >> Mr. Miranda, if I, let me show you this drawing.
22:40:15 All of this orange property that you see here, this one
22:40:22 lot and half of this lot all fronting on Kennedy and
22:40:25 all here, that's all CG.
22:40:27 All of it.
22:40:28 All of this green property that you see here is CN.
22:40:33 Our property stops right here, where you see this blue
22:40:38 The dumpsters are actually going to be 36 feet north of
22:40:44 that blue line.
22:40:45 The dumpsters are going to fall somewhere around here.
22:40:48 The masonry wall they're talking about, there is at
22:40:55 present a very tall masonry wall that separates our
22:40:59 property from the bank to the east.
22:41:04 What miss Vizzi was talking about is the fence line
22:41:07 that separates us from the residential property to the
22:41:10 south, that is a six foot wall -- six foot wood fence.
22:41:15 Six foot wood fence.
22:41:17 So that's where she was talking about.
22:41:20 We sincerely believe that, like I say, we're 36 feet
22:41:29 One of the waivers that we're asking for is that we not
22:41:31 have to erect a masonry wall along that south boundary.
22:41:35 That's Council's pleasure, we'll do it.
22:41:42 But I haven't seen the person that owns that property,
22:41:47 I haven't seen him come in here and say one word about
22:41:50 his parcel of land.
22:41:53 Other gentleman that spoke, he lives three blocks away.
22:41:56 We are in the 100 block of Renellie.
22:41:58 He lives at 301 Trask.
22:42:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other question of Council?
22:42:06 What's the pleasure of Council?
22:42:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
22:42:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
22:42:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.
22:42:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: There is no pleasure.
22:42:23 [ Laughter ]
22:42:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It is 10:42.
22:42:29 And I think we all tired.
22:42:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would just like to say that I
22:42:39 think that renters are people too.
22:42:40 And I think that the reason that we came up with the
22:42:45 original rule that you have to have a masonry wall
22:42:48 between a commercial property and a residential
22:42:50 property is because it really does protect the
22:42:53 residential property and affords more privacy.
22:42:56 And sound.
22:42:57 So, I would be -- I'm sorry we lost the houses.
22:43:07 I always believe in protecting houses.
22:43:09 But I'm okay with this being a parking lot.
22:43:11 But I think we need to protect the neighbors.
22:43:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I agree with that protection.
22:43:16 If that's your motion, I second it.
22:43:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's my motion.
22:43:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It then ends the, the movement of
22:43:24 something any further south, I believe, unless you tear
22:43:27 down the wall with you built because it costs a lot of
22:43:31 I don't think I can say -- I can't tell somebody how to
22:43:35 rebuild their property.
22:43:37 I've season buildings, in fact, if you look at MLK, and
22:43:42 the river, there used to be an old union house there on
22:43:46 the left-hand side.
22:43:47 Big one, was there for years.
22:43:50 They knocked down everything but the structure itself.
22:43:56 All the inside, all the outside, left the beams an
22:44:02 I can't tell you -- that's speculation.
22:44:05 I understand what you're saying.
22:44:07 But, I don't think anybody that builds something,
22:44:10 they're going to do it as fine as hard as possible, and
22:44:14 as best and as economical as possible, meeting the
22:44:18 guidelines of whatever regulations they're under.
22:44:20 So I'm comparing this structure to what with I've seen,
22:44:23 and it's still going on on MLK and the river, on the
22:44:28 north side of MLK, just before the river.
22:44:31 So I would do that with the missionary wall in the --
22:44:39 masonry wall in the back, and where do you ingress and
22:44:42 egress from this, Mr. Diaz?
22:44:45 On this property?
22:44:50 >> I'm sorry.
22:44:51 Two points, if I can.
22:44:53 Number one, it would be appropriate to open up the
22:44:55 public hearing, just to answer that question.
22:44:57 Also I believe Mr. Diaz is going to make a statement
22:44:59 with regards to the masonry wall.
22:45:02 >> Move to open.
22:45:03 >> Second.
22:45:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.
22:45:09 >> I'm sorry, Mr. Miranda, your question again?
22:45:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The ingress and egress to your
22:45:15 parking lot.
22:45:15 I know you made reference to one of them bread
22:45:18 But where do they come in and out when they park behind
22:45:22 your building?
22:45:23 >> Right now, if you look at the site plan, you'll see
22:45:29 the area furthest north.
22:45:33 That's where they come in and out.
22:45:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Northwest you mean?
22:45:41 >> This is an existing driveway.
22:45:43 This is.
22:45:44 This is where all the traffic comes in and out of right
22:45:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So you only have one ingress and
22:45:51 >> That is correct at this time.
22:45:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Is there anyway to put a couple of
22:45:54 little, they look like paddles what they used to hit me
22:46:00 with in high school and junior high school when I was a
22:46:02 bad boy.
22:46:03 You can't make a left-hand turn.
22:46:04 That's the only thing I'm saying.
22:46:09 >> We would have no problem with it.
22:46:11 I think you may want to talk to solid waste.
22:46:13 Solid waste the way they run their route and the size
22:46:16 of their trucks and what have you.
22:46:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I didn't consider that, to be honest
22:46:20 with you.
22:46:21 >> That I think may affect your, apparently as I
22:46:28 understand, in speaking with solid waste, they run
22:46:31 their route from Trask towards Kennedy, because if you
22:46:34 look the way the, dumpsters are oriented, all the
22:46:39 pictures I showed you, and so I think maybe Mr. Rado
22:46:46 can answer that question best.
22:46:48 I think that the announcement, we would have no problem
22:46:53 whatsoever changing our site plan to reflect we would
22:46:56 erect a six foot masonry wall along the south boundary
22:47:00 of the site to tie it to the existing masonry wall
22:47:03 along the east running down to the west.
22:47:06 >> So you remove that waiver between first and second
22:47:10 >> That is correct.
22:47:10 >> Thank you.
22:47:23 >> Currently, this is the ingress egress here.
22:47:27 Adding the second driveway to the south of the grand
22:47:31 oak tree.
22:47:32 We can make that exit only filtering traffic back up
22:47:38 towards Kennedy.
22:47:39 As long as the commissioner agrees to have it wide
22:47:44 enough for solid waste to exit.
22:47:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Do you agree to that, Mr. Diaz?
22:47:52 I'm trying to get a compromise for your project and
22:47:57 protection all at once.
22:47:59 >> Mr. Miranda, but we haven't heard concern about
22:48:04 traffic into the neighborhood, we'll agree to channel
22:48:07 the traffic towards Kennedy on that southernmost
22:48:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All right.
22:48:17 I'm not the chairman, I'm sorry.
22:48:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mover to close.
22:48:23 >> Second.
22:48:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman.
22:48:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ding I don't care if we do it before
22:48:28 or after we close.
22:48:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
22:48:31 All in favor signify by saying aye.
22:48:36 Councilmember Dingfelder?
22:48:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I can't support it.
22:48:40 Mainly because I think it sets bad precedent for this
22:48:45 And we know from experience that up and down Kennedy,
22:48:48 there's, there has been a lot of opportunity to
22:48:52 encroach into the neighborhood.
22:48:53 I think about Lindell motors back six, seven, eight
22:49:00 years ago.
22:49:01 There was a lot of encroachment down there.
22:49:03 The banks along there have continually encroached to
22:49:07 the south.
22:49:07 Because inevitably everybody lives a little more
22:49:13 I live three lots away from a restaurant and I'm glad
22:49:17 there are three houses on those three lots and not
22:49:19 parking for the restaurant.
22:49:20 Because it keeps the restaurant small and manageable.
22:49:25 And you know, and yes, they come up and park up and
22:49:29 down the street.
22:49:30 I can live with that.
22:49:31 I'd much rather have that than have a parking lot and
22:49:34 dumpster encroaching down into my neighborhood and I
22:49:36 would with assume that these neighbors, whether or not
22:49:38 they are renters or not, would feel the same way.
22:49:41 So I can't support the motion that's coming up.
22:49:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I think if it's the same motion that
22:49:48 was on the floor, with the masonry wall and no egress
22:49:55 out of that southern area, protection's there for
22:49:59 If you look to the east of this property, it goes
22:50:01 further deeper into the neighborhood than what this
22:50:05 So I mean, this is moving one dumpster 36 feet, with
22:50:13 protection, additional protection to the neighborhood,
22:50:18 renters or not, the renters are people.
22:50:20 But when you put a masonry wall, earlier the day we
22:50:24 were talking about oh, we close the street on
22:50:26 Kensington and Kennedy, I think it is.
22:50:32 For a bank.
22:50:33 Remember that through the hearing number six.
22:50:38 If I remember.
22:50:41 That worked.
22:50:41 Now we're thinking about closing half a street.
22:50:45 That may work.
22:50:46 So I mean, I can't just think that's and that's it, I'm
22:50:53 not playing here no more.
22:50:55 I understand the opposition.
22:50:56 I really do.
22:50:57 But I also have to look at it practically that who am I
22:51:02 hurting by putting a protection of a wall where now
22:51:06 there's a chain link fence, you can see everything
22:51:09 that's going on.
22:51:10 And if there are what they said it was, that there are
22:51:15 rodents and this and that, let's find out where they
22:51:20 are at and get those individuals cited.
22:51:22 I don't believe solid waste should have the opportunity
22:51:25 to pick up these containers at 4:30 in the morning.
22:51:28 That's just a violation.
22:51:30 They're not hurting this business by doing that.
22:51:32 They're hurt ting the same neighbors that we're trying
22:51:35 to protect.
22:51:36 So, how can they have an exemption on that?
22:51:40 To me, that's worse of a problem than what we have here
22:51:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Who wants to read the ordinance?
22:51:51 -- you made the motion.
22:52:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Now she wants to hear my voice.
22:52:03 I go on the record as the maker.
22:52:05 It doesn't bother me.
22:52:06 Mr. Chairman, I move special, ordinance for first
22:52:09 reading along with the changes between first and second
22:52:13 reading approving a special use permit as to approving
22:52:17 parking off-street commercial in an RS-75 residential
22:52:20 single-family zoning district in the general vicinity
22:52:23 of 106, 108 Renellie Drive in the City of Tampa,
22:52:26 Florida as more particularly described in section one
22:52:29 thereof, providing an effective date.
22:52:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And including the motion, include all
22:52:34 the special conditions.
22:52:35 Moved and second.
22:52:39 Second by Councilmember Saul-Sena.
22:52:41 All in favor signify by saying aye.
22:52:46 >> Motion carried with Dingfelder voting no and Mulhern
22:52:51 being absent.
22:52:57 Motion carried with Scott and Dingfelder voting no and
22:53:01 Mulhern being absent.
22:53:05 Second reading and adoption will be on June 24th at
22:53:05 9:30 a.m.
22:53:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
22:53:09 I just wanted to make the administration aware that
22:53:11 this is the second time in two months that they have
22:53:14 scheduled something during an MPO meeting when four
22:53:18 Councilmembers serve on the mope and if we leave the
22:53:21 mope to go -- MPO to go to chief Forward's swearing in,
22:53:26 then the mope loses its quorum or doesn't have any city
22:53:30 And I know that -- anyway, I would really like someone
22:53:35 from the administration to be made aware that, that
22:53:39 this is not considerate.
22:53:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilmember Dingfelder?
22:53:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Miranda brings up a good point.
22:53:49 And so I'd like to get a staff report.
22:53:55 What's our second meeting in June?
22:53:57 Or do we have a second meeting in June?
22:53:59 Regular meeting?
22:54:00 3rd and 24th.
22:54:05 >> June 24th.
22:54:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So on June 24th, a report from solid
22:54:11 waste in regard to why they feel they should be treated
22:54:14 differently than the private sector hauler, as regards
22:54:19 to the hours of operation.
22:54:24 >> I'm sorry to chime in, but I have been speaking with
22:54:27 the clerk about this.
22:54:28 And it's a tremendous concern that June 24th is going
22:54:31 to be last meeting before your break.
22:54:34 Every second reading that --
22:54:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I appreciate it.
22:54:39 July what?
22:54:41 First meeting back in July?
22:54:47 >> In July, yes, the first meeting will be on the 15th.
22:54:52 Regular session.
22:54:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think there might be occasion when
22:54:55 the government needs to be treated differently than the
22:54:57 private sector.
22:54:58 But I think the government needs to, has the burden of
22:55:01 proving that.
22:55:02 And I think that they should come down and tell us why
22:55:04 they should be.
22:55:06 >> Second to that.
22:55:07 >> Moved and second.
22:55:08 All in favor signify by saying aye.
22:55:12 >> It is because of interpretation in the code and
22:55:14 Council disagrees with that policy, Council has the
22:55:16 prerogative of changing the code.
22:55:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
22:55:20 >> Mr. Chairman, why is it that some of these dumpsters
22:55:23 are not enclosed in a.
22:55:29 >> That's a different thing.
22:55:30 Commercial versus residential.
22:55:34 >> Commercial establishments are on that they have to
22:55:37 be enclosed.
22:55:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
22:55:40 Anything else to come before Council?
22:55:43 >> Receive and file.
22:55:44 >> So moved to receive and file.
22:55:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.
22:55:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Anything else?
22:55:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I thought we were really
22:55:51 collaborative tonight.
22:55:52 I was real proud.
22:55:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We stand adjourned.
22:55:55 Thank you.
The following represents an unedited version of
realtime captioning which should neither be relied upon
for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
The original of this file was produced in all capital
letters and any variation thereto may be a result of
third party edits and software compatibility issues.
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.