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TAMPA CITY COUNCIL

Thursday, May 27, 2010
6:00 p.m. Session

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>> [ Roll Call ]

18:04:37 >>GWEN MILLER: We have one committee report we need to

18:04:40 do, in finance.

18:04:41 Anyone in the public like to speak on item number one?

18:04:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Madam Chair, I move the resolution

18:04:49 confirming Thomas Forward as the fire chief, head of

18:04:53 the Tampa Fire Department of the City of Tampa.

18:04:56 We are honored to have him.

18:04:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Have a motion and a second, all in favor

18:05:00 of the motion say aye.

18:05:02 Mr. Forward, would you please stand and let them be

18:05:05 recognized that we have just approved you.

18:05:07 [ Applause ]

18:05:20 >> Thank you Council, and Madam Chair.

18:05:24 And Council chairman, Tom forward, your new fire rescue

18:05:29 cleave.

18:05:30 I'm both honored and humbled that you have, I have been

18:05:33 chosen, you have appointed me as your new fire chief of

18:05:36 the City of Tampa.

18:05:37 And it is my Endeavour to uphold the fine organization

18:05:41 that Tampa fire is, and what you have become accustomed

18:05:45 and what this community has been accustomed to, to

18:05:48 having served.

18:05:48 And I give you my, my -- I'll give you my humble, my

18:05:54 position that I will absolutely uphold this in the

18:05:56 finest tradition that you have become accustomed to.

18:05:59 Thank you again.

18:06:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you for being our chief.

18:06:02 We'd like to put on the record now that you're going to

18:06:06 be sworn in on Tuesday, June 1st in the mayor of's

18:06:11 conference room.

18:06:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You have your wife here, your children.

18:06:17 >> If my lovely wife will come up, Cynthia forward.




18:06:21 [ Applause ]

18:06:25 >> And also counsel, I have my -- Council, my entire

18:06:31 grace Mary family.

18:06:32 If they'll please stand.

18:06:36 [ Applause ]

18:06:37 >> My very close friend, Mr. Marvin Knight.

18:06:40 Marvin will stand.

18:06:43 Again, we're just humbled and I'm just honored to serve

18:06:46 such a fine community and have such support from a

18:06:49 great community and from our Council.

18:06:51 Thank you.

18:06:53 >>GWEN MILLER: You are no more honored than we are.

18:06:56 We are very honored.

18:06:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Please tell them all to stay, we

18:07:00 don't want to lose half the audience.

18:07:02 [ Laughter ]

18:07:03 >> Thank you again.

18:07:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Congratulations.

18:07:07 We are very proud, very honored, the mayor selected you

18:07:10 and recommended the approval by Council.

18:07:12 So we do that wholeheartedly and without any

18:07:15 reservations.




18:07:16 We have no doubt that you will serve this community and

18:07:17 the city well.

18:07:19 >> Thanks again, chairman.

18:07:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thanks and also to your church family.

18:07:23 Thank you.

18:07:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And the real boss, your wife.

18:07:27 [ Laughter ]

18:07:30 >> Thanks again.

18:07:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

18:07:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Chairman, I move to open the items

18:07:40 not continued for public hearing.

18:07:42 [pause]

18:08:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, you want to clean up the agenda?

18:08:25 >> If I, Mr. Chairman, did you want to do that first or

18:08:28 do you want to make the motion to open, public

18:08:30 hearings?

18:08:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Maybe some of these are coming out.

18:08:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We'll take action on.

18:08:38 >> Good evening, Council, Abbye Feeley, Land

18:08:40 Development Coordination.

18:08:41 All items on your agenda this evening are moving

18:08:44 forward.




18:08:45 So we don't have anything to clear up and we're ready

18:08:47 to go.

18:08:49 >>GWEN MILLER: You sure?

18:08:50 >> Yes, ma'am.

18:08:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Couple items will be open, 3, 4, 5,

18:08:54 6, 7, and 8 is a continued public hearing.

18:08:58 And so is 2.

18:09:02 >> Second.

18:09:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.

18:09:04 All in favor signify by saying aye.

18:09:06 Opposes?

18:09:08 >> Mr. Chairman, I ask that all written communications

18:09:10 relative to today's hearing, which have been available

18:09:12 for public inspection in City Council's office be

18:09:14 received and filed into the record at this time.

18:09:17 >> So moved.

18:09:17 >> Second.

18:09:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.

18:09:20 Opposes?

18:09:21 >> Thank you.

18:09:21 Secondly, if any members of City Council have had any

18:09:24 verbal communication with any petitioner, his or her




18:09:27 representative, or any member of the public in

18:09:30 connection with any of today's hearings, that member of

18:09:30 the public should prior to action disclose the person

18:09:32 or persons, group or entity with whom the verbal

18:09:37 communication occurred and the substance of that verbal

18:09:39 communication.

18:09:40 Finally, ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Chairman, I believe

18:09:42 you're going to ask the witnesses to be sworn.

18:09:44 Please make sure if you're going to be speaking, you

18:09:46 have signed in outside so the clerk does have your name

18:09:49 and that you are sworn in for the record.

18:09:51 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

18:09:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, if you're going to be speaking

18:09:56 tonight, please stand to be sworn at this time.

18:09:58 If you're going to be speaking to Council, please stand

18:10:00 and be sworn.

18:10:04 [Oath administered by Clerk]

18:10:26 >> Good evening Council, Abbye Feeley, Land Development

18:10:29 Coordination.

18:10:30 Item number 2 is a request for special use, place of

18:10:34 religious assembly, located 4,003, 4,015, 4,010 short

18:10:42 30th street and 2916 east Martin Luther King, Jr.




18:10:45 Boulevard.

18:10:46 This is a special use that was previously done not too

18:10:52 long ago, maybe about 12 to 18 months ago.

18:10:55 For special use.

18:10:57 I will defer to Mr. Garcia with the Planning Commission

18:11:02 and I will come back and give you a presentation.

18:11:07 >> Good evening, members of Council, Tony Garcia,

18:11:12 Planning Commission staff.

18:11:13 I have been sworn in.

18:11:14 Very briefly, let me give you an overview with the big

18:11:17 picture as it relates to this particular project.

18:11:19 The project is located within your central Tampa

18:11:22 planning district located on your vision planning map

18:11:25 for the City of Tampa.

18:11:27 It's specifically located within East Tampa urban

18:11:30 village, also your CRA, one of your largest CRA for the

18:11:33 City of Tampa.

18:11:34 The request, as Miss Feeley has already stated to you,

18:11:38 is for the expansion of an existing place of worship.

18:11:42 I'll go ahead and show you -- upside down.

18:11:48 Right side up.

18:11:49 The location is just north of east Martin Luther King.




18:11:54 And just east of north 29th street.

18:11:57 It currently exists as a place of assembly.

18:12:02 There's some modifications that will be done to some

18:12:04 adjacent properties to allow the continued use and

18:12:06 operation of this particular place of worship, which

18:12:09 has served the community and become a fabric of the

18:12:13 community quite a long period of time.

18:12:15 Let you show you the future land use categories you

18:12:18 have several.

18:12:19 Here's the R 35 land use category.

18:12:22 Community commercial category, along Dr. Martin Luther

18:12:24 King, Jr. Boulevard.

18:12:26 And your residential 10 categories, community mixed use

18:12:30 35, which allows CG uses.

18:12:33 Those are pretty much all the categories in this

18:12:35 particular area.

18:12:35 Planning Commission staff found the proposed request

18:12:38 consistent with the comprehensive plan.

18:12:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Mr. Garcia.

18:12:46 >> Thank you, sir.

18:12:58 >> Abbye Feeley, land development.

18:13:00 As Mr. Garcia stated, this is an existing place of




18:13:03 religious assembly.

18:13:04 It was before you just a short while ago.

18:13:06 To put a fellowship building here.

18:13:09 And I have some pictures that has been under

18:13:12 construction.

18:13:12 What's before you tonight is a proposed expansion on

18:13:15 this existing structure here.

18:13:17 And a parking lot in this area here, to provide

18:13:20 parking.

18:13:23 >> As Mr. Garcia said, Martin Luther King to the south,

18:13:31 30th runs, short 30th runs in between.

18:13:34 The CSX railroad, which borders on the east side and

18:13:38 Ida Street to the north.

18:13:39 Here's a picture of the existing building from short

18:13:46 30th, looking west.

18:13:48 This is from the north, looking south.

18:13:51 This is a view looking south, where that expansion is

18:13:56 going to take place.

18:13:58 Also as you can see on your site plan drive in here and

18:14:01 have handicapped parking in the front there.

18:14:04 This is the structure to the west.

18:14:08 This is north on Ida.




18:14:12 This is immediately north on Ida right adjacent to the

18:14:19 CSX.

18:14:19 That's the CSX portion.

18:14:24 Here's a picture of the structure, built in conjunction

18:14:33 with I believe USF.

18:14:34 Still under construction.

18:14:36 This is looking north from MLK at the portion that will

18:14:39 be the parking area.

18:14:40 There will not be an access on MLK.

18:14:45 That access will take place just to the south of that

18:14:47 existing blue building.

18:14:49 This is the property to the east.

18:14:52 On MLK, adjacent to the parking area.

18:14:56 And one more view of that.

18:15:00 It's just vacant land right now, where that parking

18:15:03 area is going to be.

18:15:04 We have been working with the petitioner and I provided

18:15:09 you with a revision sheet.

18:15:11 They've had some changes in their engineers.

18:15:13 And we have been trying to help them get this case

18:15:16 before you so they he can move forward on their

18:15:19 proposed addition.




18:15:20 As you'll see, there are series of waivers.

18:15:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We didn't get the revision sheet.

18:15:30 >> There we go.

18:15:31 A number of waivers need to be amended, in order to

18:15:35 address buffers.

18:15:37 They're predominately buffer issues.

18:15:41 I can go through those.

18:15:42 The first is to reduce the required buffer from ten

18:15:44 feet to five feet along the west, on the western

18:15:47 parcel.

18:15:47 What I did was I broke it down into a western parcel

18:15:50 and an eastern parcel.

18:15:51 And then that parking parcel to try to break this up,

18:15:55 because it is quite a lot.

18:15:56 There are those -- there's 14 waivers in total.

18:15:59 And several of them need to be amended in between first

18:16:03 and second reading.

18:16:04 I think I've gone -- the current place of assembly

18:16:13 includes 1700 square foot building and a 2100 square

18:16:17 foot fellowship hall that was recently done under VO

18:16:22 939.

18:16:23 The setbacks are 23.9 feet, south 15 feet, east




18:16:26 20.3 feet and west, 12 feet for the eastern parcel and

18:16:31 then north 40 feet, south six feet, east 22.75 feet and

18:16:35 west 20.2 feet for the western parcel.

18:16:38 Use does require 45 spaces.

18:16:40 14 spaces are being provided and a waiver is being

18:16:43 requested for the deficit.

18:16:45 Let me quickly go through the staff findings.

18:16:48 On the Land Development Coordination, in the staff

18:16:50 report, most of them are technical in nature.

18:16:52 We need them to add the waivers as exactly shown in my

18:16:55 staff report.

18:16:57 In between first and second reading.

18:16:58 Modify the building square footage.

18:17:00 Modify the northern set back.

18:17:05 Modify the site data to show the parking at 14 spaces.

18:17:10 Modify the FAR to point 28.

18:17:13 And modify the proposed building to contain fellowship

18:17:16 activities.

18:17:17 Solid waste, if you'll look on your site plan real

18:17:22 quick, on that western parcel, they right now have the

18:17:25 solid waste receptacles in the front yard, of the

18:17:28 building with the proposed addition.




18:17:29 We don't typically do that, so we are asking they shift

18:17:33 that to the south and everything in the report reflects

18:17:35 that being shifted.

18:17:36 There's adequate space there to accommodate that.

18:17:39 Transportation also requires that a sidewalk be shown

18:17:43 along Ida.

18:17:44 So we can do that.

18:17:45 All these are technical in nature, can be done in

18:17:48 between first and second reading and staff will work

18:17:50 with the petitioner to ensure that gets done.

18:17:56 >> Petitioner?

18:17:57 Petitioner?

18:18:10 >> Good afternoon, my name is Luis Rosado, professional

18:18:13 engineer.

18:18:15 >> My name is Allen Taylor, Allen Taylor consultant.

18:18:22 >> Do you have anything you wanted to add?

18:18:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anything else you want to add to the

18:18:27 report?

18:18:27 >> Not really.

18:18:28 >> We have been working with them to try to get this

18:18:30 project.

18:18:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do you agree to all the changes that




18:18:33 have been recommended on here?

18:18:34 >> Yes, that's no problem.

18:18:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do you want your petition to be

18:18:37 approved?

18:18:38 >> Yes.

18:18:38 Of course.

18:18:39 [ Laughter ]

18:18:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Should tell us you want that, pretty

18:18:44 much.

18:18:45 >> We want our petition to be approved.

18:18:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone in opposition to this petition

18:18:51 here?

18:18:51 Anyone here in opposition?

18:18:54 >> Move to close.

18:18:54 >> Second.

18:18:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

18:18:56 Just -- anyone who's in the gray area, not sure?

18:19:03 All right then.

18:19:06 >> Republican or Democrat?

18:19:07 [ Laughter ]

18:19:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion closed.

18:19:09 All in favor signify by saying aye.




18:19:11 Opposes?

18:19:12 Okay.

18:19:12 Mr. Miranda?

18:19:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you Mr. Chairman.

18:19:16 Move an ordinance for first reading which contains a,

18:19:20 also with the case number V09-403, that's 4003, 4005,

18:19:24 4007, 4010 Short 30th Street, 2916 east Martin Luther

18:19:31 King Boulevard, that contains Land Development

18:19:35 Coordination request for solid waste and transportation

18:19:42 issue.

18:19:42 Shall be fixed between first and second reading,

18:19:45 correct.

18:19:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move ordinance requesting special as

18:19:50 special religious assembly as RS-50 residential

18:19:53 single-family district in the general vicinity of 4003,

18:19:57 4005, 4007 and 4010 Short 30th Street and 2916 east

18:20:03 Martin Luther King, Jr. Boulevard in the City of Tampa,

18:20:05 Florida, more particularly scribed in section one

18:20:07 thereof, providing an effective date.

18:20:10 >> Been moved and second.

18:20:11 All in favor signify by saying aye.

18:20:13 0 opposes?




18:20:15 >> Motion carried with Mulhern being absent.

18:20:18 Second reading and adoption will be June 24 at

18:20:20 9:35 a.m.

18:20:22 -- 9:30 a.m.

18:20:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

18:20:33 Number 3?

18:20:35 >> Thank you.

18:20:35 Item three?

18:20:57 >> Abbye Feeley, land development coordination.

18:20:59 Council, item three on your agenda this evening is

18:21:02 another special use request.

18:21:05 V10-131 is located at 4509 North Armenia Avenue.

18:21:10 This is a special use request for medical office in an

18:21:14 RO-1 district.

18:21:16 Let me not say the too much and let Mr. Garcia get up

18:21:21 here.

18:21:21 I'm not used to that format.

18:21:25 >>TONY GARCIA: Good evening again, members of the

18:21:38 Council, Tony Garcia, Planning Commission staff, I have

18:21:40 been sworn.

18:21:41 The subject site is located in the central Tampa

18:21:48 planning district, which is one of our districts of




18:21:51 growth according to your vision map and comprehensive

18:21:53 plan.

18:21:54 It is, the site is located in the, in the general area

18:22:02 of the Wellswood neighborhood association.

18:22:04 It's right off of Wishart, as you can see by the

18:22:06 aerial.

18:22:07 Here's Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Boulevard.

18:22:11 Still sticking with this particular Boulevard, just a

18:22:13 little bit farther to the west.

18:22:15 To give you a better context, St. Joseph's hospital is

18:22:20 about, about a mile to the west.

18:22:23 And there are a variety of, I'll zoom in a little bit

18:22:26 for you over here, so you can see some of the existing

18:22:28 uses along this particular part of North Armenia.

18:22:31 There are a variety of professional office uses, as you

18:22:34 can see, along North Armenia.

18:22:37 Here's the subject site.

18:22:38 Which is to be for a redeveloped for a medical office,

18:22:42 two story medical office.

18:22:44 There are existing already on North Armenia a variety

18:22:46 of medical offices and small scale clinics.

18:22:51 All the way up to Hillsborough avenue.




18:22:54 That's about a mile to the north.

18:22:55 And also as I said, some professional office, some

18:23:00 attorneys offices are around here and some other

18:23:02 professional offices, some existing, here's a

18:23:04 pediatrician's office, a surgeon's office, a variety of

18:23:08 different medical uses in the area.

18:23:09 This is pretty consistent with the variety of uses to.

18:23:12 Show you exactly what the underlying future land use

18:23:15 categories are that are reflective of this use,

18:23:18 community mixed use 35 along Armenia avenue which

18:23:22 allows professional offices as well as general

18:23:25 commercial uses.

18:23:26 Here's the Westwood neighborhood to the east over here,

18:23:30 predominantly residential and single-family attached

18:23:33 use.

18:23:34 Residential 20, residential 35 and again residential

18:23:38 family uses over here on the west side of Armenia.

18:23:40 Planning Commission staff found the proposed request

18:23:42 consistent with the comprehensive plan.

18:23:51 >> Abbye Feeley, land defendant.

18:23:54 Council, before you this evening is for a 2,073 square

18:24:00 foot medical office building.




18:24:03 This is a special use in the RO-1, the special use

18:24:06 requires a lot size of 10,000 square feet.

18:24:08 The lot does have 14,386 square feet.

18:24:12 The building setbacks are north 17 and a half, west

18:24:15 49 feet four inches.

18:24:18 East 30 feet six inches and south, 47 feet two inches.

18:24:22 There are three waivers that are being requested.

18:24:24 One, to reduce the drive aisle width from 26 feet to

18:24:30 19 feet.

18:24:31 The second to reduce drive aisle wide N from 26 feet to

18:24:36 22 feet.

18:24:36 And last reduce the required buffer along the east to

18:24:40 four feet two inches with a six foot wood fence.

18:24:43 Let me go ahead and show you some pictures of the site.

18:24:46 The zoning atlas and an aerial.

18:24:48 As Tony mentioned, there is a mix of uses along this

18:24:54 segment of Armenia north of MLK.

18:24:57 You can see on the zoning atlas you have a series of

18:25:00 commercial general, PD, CG.

18:25:04 -- I'm sorry, RO 1, all in this area here, starting

18:25:09 from, working your way down, CG here.

18:25:14 Across the streets a series of RO-1, CG, and CN, so,




18:25:19 multitude of uses with mixed types of offices there.

18:25:23 Go ahead and show you the aerial again.

18:25:28 Armenia to the west.

18:25:30 Wishart place or MLK further to the south.

18:25:34 This is the existing structure that's on the site

18:25:39 today.

18:25:39 This is going to be demolished and a new structure is

18:25:46 going to be constructed in this area.

18:25:47 To the south, the one-story.

18:25:56 Immediately to the north, another one-story office.

18:25:59 Across the street, SDI Diagnostic, which is in your

18:26:06 development two story.

18:26:08 Immediately across Armenia to the west.

18:26:17 Land Development Coordination -- sorry, the Development

18:26:20 Review Committee found this application currently

18:26:23 inconsistent.

18:26:24 However, if the revisions are made in between first and

18:26:26 second reading, it would be found consistent.

18:26:30 I believe with the exception of transportation, who is

18:26:33 objecting to the 19-foot drive aisle.

18:26:36 In relation to Land Development Coordination, we had a

18:26:41 couple waivers that needed to be rewritten.




18:26:43 And just you some minor changes on the site plan.

18:26:46 Transportation also needed some, in addition to the

18:26:50 drive aisle objection, needed the turf paver changed to

18:26:54 turf block.

18:26:55 And they needed 12-inch stop bar shown.

18:26:57 And they needed a raised curb for the proposed

18:27:00 sidewalks.

18:27:00 Transportation staff is here, as well as Land

18:27:03 Development Coordination should you have any questions.

18:27:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

18:27:07 Petitioner?

18:27:14 >> Good evening, Council.

18:27:15 My name is Jorge Ramos.

18:27:17 I have been sworn in.

18:27:18 275 Bayshore.

18:27:22 I'm here today as the agent for Miss Mercedes Sumulong,

18:27:26 owner of the property located at 4509 North Armenia

18:27:29 Avenue.

18:27:30 The property is approximately point 33 acres in the

18:27:34 zoning, as already been mentioned, is RO-1, consistent

18:27:37 with all the medical offices in the area.

18:27:39 Abutting the property to the north and south as Abbye




18:27:42 Feeley just showed, are medical offices.

18:27:45 For all the areas predominantly use as medical.

18:27:48 We are here today to respectfully request that the use

18:27:52 of the property be changed from detached house to

18:27:54 medical office.

18:27:55 If approved, we are proposing to construct a new

18:27:59 building.

18:28:00 We are working with our architects to ensure that the

18:28:04 building is within character and the facade will blend

18:28:08 in well with the surrounding neighborhood.

18:28:10 We believe that the new building and with the proposed

18:28:13 landscaping will enhance the neighborhood.

18:28:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here in objection to this

18:28:18 petition?

18:28:18 Anyone here in objection to this petition?

18:28:21 Councilman?

18:28:25 >> Thank you, sir.

18:28:26 I just had a question, transportation.

18:28:30 If you could just show us where the -- this is a very

18:28:34 busy site plan.

18:28:35 Just show us on the site plan where the drive aisle is

18:28:38 that you object to and why you object.




18:28:41 >> Lenroy Martin, transportation.

18:28:57 The drive aisle is for the spaces to the west -- drive

18:29:02 aisle is for the spaces to the west, 19 feet.

18:29:04 There are a couple 88 spaces and some nine by 18 spaces

18:29:07 that require 26-foot backup.

18:29:11 We do acknowledge that the building, because of the

18:29:13 constraints of the pond to the east, that it will not

18:29:16 be able to be moved to accommodate 26 feet.

18:29:19 But, we do think seven feet is excessive.

18:29:22 >> I can't hear you.

18:29:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Speak a little closer.

18:29:25 >> We do believe that the seven feet is excessive for

18:29:28 reduction in the drive aisle.

18:29:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do you see any options?

18:29:35 Are there any logistical options, things they could

18:29:39 change to accommodate your concern?

18:29:41 And does it create a concern out to the general public?

18:29:43 Is or just to the patrons of this establishment?

18:29:47 >> Just for basically for this site.

18:29:50 I don't see it being an issue for the general public.

18:29:52 I met with the agent and there really is no other

18:29:58 solution.




18:29:59 The drive aisle.

18:30:01 But it's just a technical objection that we have.

18:30:05 >> Thank you.

18:30:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilmember Miranda.

18:30:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Has nothing to do with zoning.

18:30:11 What kind of medical office?

18:30:16 >> It's going to be for, the name of the office is

18:30:19 going to be the pain and wellness.

18:30:21 >> Huh?

18:30:22 >> It's going to be for pain treatment office.

18:30:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I am not trying -- oh, my gosh.

18:30:31 I think we just passed and ordinance that you have to

18:30:36 jump some hoops to get it.

18:30:37 I know you're legit and all that.

18:30:40 But there's a lot of things that we just did last

18:30:43 Thursday, on an emergency basis, and we didn't go over

18:30:49 the option of moratorium, and I believe rightly so,

18:30:53 because in my feeling anyway, if you went with a

18:30:56 moratorium and legit establishment that was already

18:30:59 there, could then object and file a lawsuit and then

18:31:02 all hell would break loose in the city, just like

18:31:06 what's been going on through today.




18:31:08 I don't know what to tell you.

18:31:10 But I can the tell you one thing, I'm out looking at

18:31:13 pain and wellness very kind any more.

18:31:16 I'm not here to regulate pain and wellness.

18:31:19 I can't as a government tell you or your patient or

18:31:22 your doctor what kind of pain they have, how much pain

18:31:26 they have.

18:31:26 What kind of pills they got to take.

18:31:28 But I can tell you that there's been a lot of problems

18:31:33 in this city and I can name you four others that are

18:31:36 open that are going to be closed very shortly.

18:31:38 But I won't divulge that information today.

18:31:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I guess, I guess we need some legal

18:31:46 counsel at this point.

18:31:47 >> Mr. Chairman, again, miss Miranda stated at the

18:31:51 outset, that really does not --

18:31:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No it doesn't.

18:31:54 >> Your looking at the particular category of use, and

18:31:57 obviously there would have to comply with whatever else

18:32:01 Council has set forth in the code.

18:32:02 They'd have to comply with any other regulations.

18:32:05 With regard to this particular petition, just look to




18:32:10 what is being requested.

18:32:11 The site plan, and the compatibility, the waivers and

18:32:14 the other issues that you would normally look to, to

18:32:16 decide whether or not this is something that you wish

18:32:19 to approve.

18:32:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilmember Saul-Sena?

18:32:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I move to close the public hearing.

18:32:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other question by Council?

18:32:30 Okay, sir, anything else you want to put on the record

18:32:33 before we close the public hearing?

18:32:35 >> Oh, yes, well, I hear your concerns, councilmember.

18:32:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You can't talk about my concerns,

18:32:43 because they're not legal issues concerning the zoning

18:32:46 matter.

18:32:46 I just brought that up.

18:32:49 To understand where I'm at.

18:32:51 I'm not going to be ---anyway, let's leave it at that.

18:32:55 >> I believe the doctor who will be, who is planning

18:32:59 the to buy this property is a good reputation.

18:33:01 And you know, it's basically run, a well-run business.

18:33:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And this zoning is solely for

18:33:11 medical practice, not medical practice and prescription




18:33:14 at the same time?

18:33:17 >> I believe it's medical practice.

18:33:19 I'm not aware of whether they too proceed descriptions.

18:33:21 -- prescriptions.

18:33:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion to close.

18:33:26 A second?

18:33:27 Moved and second, all in favor signify by saying aye.

18:33:30 Opposes?

18:33:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Even though we are closed I'm not

18:33:37 going to ask the question regarding zoning.

18:33:39 Jewel crashes all petitions that come after last

18:33:42 Thursday under this subject matter, would have to go

18:33:44 through the new ordinance, correct?

18:33:46 >> Correct.

18:33:46 What would happen, with this or any other pain

18:33:50 management clinics falling under the definition of the

18:33:54 new ordinance that we put in place, would need to get a

18:33:56 business operating permit, as part of that permit, they

18:33:58 do need to show they are in compliance with current

18:34:01 code, so, that's how it would be handled.

18:34:05 It would be a business operating permit and wouldn't

18:34:07 have anything really to do with the zoning except to




18:34:09 the extent that they comply with coach.

18:34:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilmember Saul-Sena?

18:34:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.

18:34:16 I'd like to move ordinance approving a medical office

18:34:19 building in RO-1 residential office zoning district in

18:34:23 the general vicinity of 5409 North Armenia Avenue, in

18:34:26 the City of Tampa, Florida, and is more particularly

18:34:29 described in section one here, providing an effective

18:34:31 date.

18:34:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.

18:34:34 Second by Council--councilmember Dingfelder.

18:34:38 All in favor.

18:34:39 >> Motion carried with Mulhern being absent.

18:34:41 Second reading and adoption will be on June 24 at

18:34:44 9:30 a.m.

18:34:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

18:34:46 Item 4?

18:35:16 >> Good evening, Abbye Feeley, land development.

18:35:18 Item number four on your agenda is V10-03, 2134, 2136,

18:35:25 2138 and 2140 West LaSalle Street.

18:35:29 1945 and 1947 West LaSalle Street, the request is

18:35:35 before you this evening is rezone to PD for a parking




18:35:37 off street principal.

18:35:43 And if you'll see on your site plan, I'm sure Tony will

18:35:48 talk about it too.

18:35:48 These are two parcels in this PD.

18:35:50 And they are not adjacent parcels.

18:35:53 So you have one close to Howard avenue and one to

18:35:57 LaSalle, further down on LaSalle as you can see on your

18:36:01 aerial.

18:36:08 >> Good evening, Tony Garcia, Planning Commission

18:36:11 staff.

18:36:11 I have been sworn.

18:36:12 We are still sticking with the central business

18:36:17 district, or the central district on your vision map.

18:36:21 We have got out of the --

18:36:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Garcia, if you could -- for some

18:36:24 reason, we are not able to hear very clearly tonight.

18:36:27 I don't know if it's because our hearing dull.

18:36:33 >>TONY GARCIA: No problem.

18:36:34 How's that?

18:36:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Better.

18:36:37 >>TONY GARCIA: Of the seven cases tonight, six of the

18:36:39 cases will be in the central district.




18:36:40 The planning district on the vision map.

18:36:42 So, it's working pretty good as far as how we like to

18:36:45 see growth being directed in the city.

18:36:49 That being said this particular location is located in

18:36:51 the historic West Tampa area.

18:36:53 And is located just to the south of the interstate.

18:36:58 As you can see, depicted right here.

18:37:03 There's two locations, as Miss Feeley has told you

18:37:05 about.

18:37:06 These two lots have already been developed and are

18:37:10 functioning presently as parking lots.

18:37:12 So I guess that's one of the things that you'll be

18:37:17 bringing up this evening.

18:37:19 They are to provide ancillary parking to Argosy

18:37:24 University, which was formerly the historic

18:37:28 Berriman-Morgan cigar factory built in 104.

18:37:33 Really has been restored very, very nicely.

18:37:35 As you are aware of.

18:37:37 There are already parking to the rear over here, I

18:37:39 guess to accommodate the students that go to the

18:37:41 university and the faculty and whatever other

18:37:44 supporting businesses are in this particular structure.




18:37:48 I guess the request, or the -- there was an additional

18:37:52 need for some additional parking, which is why these

18:37:55 two parcels have been acquired, or these two land areas

18:37:59 have been acquired for the purpose of providing

18:38:01 ancillary parking.

18:38:02 Here's a more zoomed in approach.

18:38:08 As you can see, this was taken while they were still

18:38:11 doing the interstate acquisition and building that

18:38:14 south part of I-275.

18:38:17 So right now, you will have a wall abutting this

18:38:21 particular location.

18:38:22 The wall goes right up to the building over here and

18:38:25 also to this particular lot.

18:38:27 One of the two lots.

18:38:28 This lot is, I think gravel, but I'm not going to get

18:38:32 into particulars as far as from a comp plan aspect.

18:38:35 Just from a functionality aspect to let you know it is

18:38:38 the historic district of course, trying to deal with

18:38:40 providing new opportunities with, the advent of the car

18:38:43 coming in, from an area that was built back in the late

18:38:46 1800s.

18:38:47 When you didn't have a lot of cars and now you've got a




18:38:51 grid network and a lot more cars, the need for

18:38:53 ancillary parking is there.

18:38:55 So you have this, this -- this dilemma trying to

18:39:01 accommodate new economic development in historic area,

18:39:05 while preserving the historic character of the area as

18:39:08 far as the increased usage of the automobile.

18:39:11 So that's one of the things that you're having to deal

18:39:13 with over here.

18:39:14 Aesthetically too, I think Miss Feeley is probably

18:39:17 going into the details from a stormwater M:OOPS aspect

18:39:20 and a shedding aspect and green space aspect.

18:39:22 That's more what the land development regulations are.

18:39:25 I'll let her speak to those things.

18:39:27 But as far as the use allowed within the land use

18:39:29 categories, I show you right now, you do have the

18:39:32 community commercial 35 and the residential 10 category

18:39:34 over here.

18:39:36 Again this is already taken away by the expressway

18:39:39 development, so this doesn't exist any more as far as

18:39:42 land use is concerned.

18:39:43 Residential 10 does allow stormwater, retention and

18:39:47 does allow parking, ancillary parking.




18:39:50 So those are allowable uses.

18:39:52 Comprehensive plan of, does allow for these, so overall

18:39:55 based on what we found, we can find this particular

18:39:58 request overall consistent with the comprehensive plan

18:40:01 as far as the uses are concerned, rest hip to what

18:40:03 they're providing a function to, which is the Argosy

18:40:06 University structure.

18:40:07 Thank you.

18:40:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

18:40:16 >> Council, Abbye Feeley, land development.

18:40:18 As Tony mentioned, the request before you this evening

18:40:27 is for two parking lots.

18:40:30 And there are serving this PD here, which we just

18:40:35 rezoned not too long ago, together.

18:40:41 The reason why they are independent, however, is that

18:40:45 the reality always is that they could be sold off.

18:40:48 They don't meet definition of accessory parking because

18:40:50 they're not adjacent to the structure.

18:40:52 Or the zoning lot that they're serving.

18:40:54 So they are sitting here.

18:40:57 The lot to the west is adjacent to the CI that runs

18:41:00 along Howard avenue.




18:41:02 The lot over to the east is actually north of

18:41:06 nonconforming use here in the RS-50.

18:41:09 And the multifamily, that's nonconforming here in the

18:41:12 RS-50.

18:41:13 Also there are couple landmark structures that are

18:41:16 located just one door down from the lot.

18:41:20 Over here on the east.

18:41:22 Miss Anthony staff reports, she refers to this as

18:41:28 location one and location two.

18:41:29 So when I am referring to items in that staff report,

18:41:32 momentarily, it will be location here on the west and

18:41:35 location two here to the east.

18:41:38 Howard avenue, LaSalle, Albany, my arrow also shows the

18:41:41 construction of the interstate expansion there, so on

18:41:44 your zoning atlas it looks like there's some PDs and

18:41:48 lots back there.

18:41:49 That's no longer there.

18:41:50 Go ahead and show you some pictures.

18:41:56 I'm going to start of course with the Berriman-Morgan

18:42:04 cigar factory there.

18:42:06 This is the lot, location one, on the western side.

18:42:10 You'll see in your staff report, there's a number of




18:42:16 waivers that are being requested in relationship to

18:42:18 these lots.

18:42:19 More predominantly in relation to buffering and

18:42:23 screening that's required when you have a lot.

18:42:26 Parking lot, and the green space.

18:42:29 There's the six foot masonry wall there.

18:42:35 On the other side, there is no, no wall.

18:42:42 This location, as you'll see in your staff report, I

18:42:48 believe is required nine trees.

18:42:49 On the site plan, there are three trees that are going

18:42:52 to be provided.

18:42:53 Two are going to be provided in the right-of-way.

18:42:55 And one is going to be provided in this island here.

18:42:58 Other than that on this site, there's a waiver for the

18:43:01 remaining trees that were to be planted.

18:43:03 Hearse a look down the alley.

18:43:11 And the lot toward Howard.

18:43:13 And this is that house that is immediately adjacent to

18:43:22 that six foot wall.

18:43:23 Pretty tight squeeze there.

18:43:25 That's location one.

18:43:27 I'll now go to location 2.




18:43:35 This is looking at location 2.

18:43:43 Mr. Garcia did say it is gravel.

18:43:47 It appears to be that, with some wheel stops that are

18:43:50 in there now.

18:43:50 There's a chain link fence currently around the

18:43:53 property.

18:43:54 This is looking south.

18:43:58 I mentioned there was a non-conforming use on that

18:44:01 southeast corner.

18:44:02 That's that game room there.

18:44:05 Commercial use.

18:44:05 Again, on this one, very limited buffering.

18:44:11 This side I believe was required 12 trees.

18:44:16 And it has the same scenario.

18:44:18 It's an identical lot, where three trees are being

18:44:20 provided, two will be provided in the right-of-way.

18:44:22 One will be provided in a small island.

18:44:27 And there's a waiver for nine trees on this site.

18:44:29 The wood fence there.

18:44:34 This is looking north toward the interstate.

18:44:37 This is the other nonconforming use I discussed with

18:44:44 you, the multifamily, just to the west.




18:44:47 This is looking back toward Howard.

18:44:49 This is looking east.

18:45:00 And I believe I had a shot of the house that is

18:45:04 immediately to the east.

18:45:09 But I don't see it -- right here.

18:45:12 This is directly on the other side of that wood fence.

18:45:15 That does not contain any other buffering.

18:45:18 The required buffer for this use would be 15 feet with

18:45:24 a six foot masonry wall.

18:45:27 You'd have the six foot masonry wall, then the 15 feet

18:45:30 of green space and then your first parking space.

18:45:33 What's being provided, the six foot wood fence.

18:45:35 One of the reasons we require a six foot masonry wall

18:45:39 in the green space is block any headlights, items that

18:45:42 could affect that residential property.

18:45:44 If the residential property is very low intensive use

18:45:47 and the parking lot is use group C or very high

18:45:50 intensity use.

18:45:51 Go ahead back to the staff report.

18:45:58 There are seven waivers associated with this request

18:46:04 tonight.

18:46:04 The first is to reduce those buffers I just talked




18:46:07 about, from 15 feet to one foot.

18:46:10 With an existing six foot masonry wall for the first

18:46:14 location.

18:46:15 And also for the second location.

18:46:18 So, that wood fence will need to be removed and

18:46:21 replaced with a miss ornery wall.

18:46:24 -- masonry wall.

18:46:26 The second is reduce the required buffer along the east

18:46:28 and west boundary from one foot to a vine to zero foot

18:46:32 without a vine for location one.

18:46:33 So that wall should be planted with a vine, if you go

18:46:35 down to that.

18:46:36 And they are requested to waive that vine.

18:46:38 Third is to reduce the required number of trees from

18:46:41 seven to zero on location one.

18:46:46 And nine to zero on location two.

18:46:48 To be revised in between first and second reading.

18:46:51 The fourth is section 13161, which is our tree and

18:46:59 landscape.

18:47:00 And that is to reduce the required eight foot buffer to

18:47:03 zero foot.

18:47:06 When you have parking spaces immediately adjacent to




18:47:08 the right-of-way, you're required an eight foot buffer

18:47:11 until you start your spaces and that buffer is to be

18:47:14 green.

18:47:14 They're going to pay for that, as fee in lieu.

18:47:17 It will be 672 square feet for location one at the time

18:47:21 of permitting and 1151 square feet for location 2 at

18:47:25 the time of permitting.

18:47:26 Waiver number six is allow the northern four parking

18:47:31 spaces in location one closest to LaSalle to maneuver

18:47:34 in the right-of-way.

18:47:35 And the last waiver is to allow the southernmost four

18:47:38 spaces in location 2, closest to LaSalle to maneuver in

18:47:41 the public right-of-way.

18:47:43 Each of these lots are 95 by 100 feet, so they contain

18:47:48 9500 square feet for a combined area of 19,000.

18:47:54 I do want to go through briefly the objections.

18:47:58 We do have a revision sheet for these modifications,

18:48:01 but land development does have some concerns in

18:48:03 relation to location number 2.

18:48:05 With location number 1, it's immediately adjacent to

18:48:10 the commercial intensive, so that's not really an

18:48:12 intrusion into the residential area.




18:48:13 But on the second lot, it is immediately adjacent to a

18:48:17 residential house, which I showed you, with minimum

18:48:20 buffering.

18:48:20 It's now introducing traffic, parking and things back

18:48:24 into that residential area, which we typically try to

18:48:27 keep closer to the main corridors, so that that

18:48:31 transition area can occur.

18:48:32 I believe that Miss Anthony on page three and five of

18:48:41 her staff report found that location inconsistent with

18:48:44 the existing character of that area for parking lot.

18:48:47 There were some other modifications related to the

18:48:55 proposed fencing.

18:48:56 That fencing that you saw, the wrought iron on location

18:48:59 one was not included on the site plan.

18:49:01 As you all know, on a PD, planned development, you need

18:49:04 to show any fencing that is on the site plan, because

18:49:07 code refers to PDs as what is shown on the site plan

18:49:10 for all fencing.

18:49:11 On page number 3 of your staff report, there were some

18:49:17 comments from urban design that the five foot sidewalk

18:49:21 required along with south street and Albany shall be

18:49:25 con greet and the drawing incorrectly depicts the




18:49:29 potential for asphalt sidewalk along LaSalle and then

18:49:32 secondly, urban design would like to see that depressed

18:49:35 rather than removed.

18:49:36 And the existing granite curbing at the driveway

18:49:40 ingress and egress for both parking lots, which is

18:49:42 consistent with the transportation code.

18:49:45 Staff is available for any questions.

18:49:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The sheet you handed us, is this for

18:49:50 the second parking lot, for the revision or for the

18:49:53 first one?

18:49:53 That wasn't clear.

18:49:55 >> It should be for both.

18:49:56 It should be for the site plan in general.

18:49:59 On the revision sheet, there's one that says to add the

18:50:06 following waiver.

18:50:06 Which is to reduce the required buffer along the east

18:50:10 and west for location one.

18:50:11 And then they need to show all fencing.

18:50:15 So the second lot has that chain link fence.

18:50:17 That's not currently shown sand I'm not sure what

18:50:20 Mr. Jammal's intentions for the fencing on that lot is.

18:50:24 Whether to keep the chain link or install some sort of




18:50:27 wrought iron like he did on the other lot.

18:50:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilmember Miranda, then Dingfelder.

18:50:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Couple things crossed my mind.

18:50:35 No one, including unit two would with ever need a fence

18:50:38 to the north.

18:50:39 That's the expressway.

18:50:45 >> I'm not sure if they want to secure those lots.

18:50:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I mean, it's 15 to 18 feet tall.

18:50:50 And we spent a lot of money making it look nice.

18:50:53 I'm looking at Albany, and I understand there's a

18:51:00 residential house here.

18:51:02 Why couldn't Albany be closed and the land divided in

18:51:05 half?

18:51:06 I'm just looking at something, I'm saying, what if, and

18:51:09 what if in my own mind.

18:51:11 Because certainly there's not going to be any traffic

18:51:13 heading north on Albany, from LaSalle.

18:51:15 I believe the northern point of that road was laurel at

18:51:19 one time.

18:51:20 And laurel has disappeared now.

18:51:22 That's the entrance ramp to the expressway.

18:51:25 Heading east.




18:51:26 So it would be no need, in my opinion -- I'm not a

18:51:31 planner, I admit to that.

18:51:33 I swear to that.

18:51:33 I'm not a traffic engineer.

18:51:35 But in my mind, I'm saying why is Albany open at that

18:51:39 point?

18:51:39 It dead ends.

18:51:41 It ends to a wall that a Sherman tank couldn't go

18:51:46 through.

18:51:46 Unless you fired weapons.

18:51:47 But, that's what I don't understand.

18:51:50 I understand some of the other concerns.

18:51:56 But I'll rest my case now for that.

18:51:59 Thank you.

18:51:59 You don't have to answer meet.

18:52:00 I just did myself.

18:52:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilmember Dingfelder?

18:52:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thanks.

18:52:09 So, in regard to the staff report, it says location 2,

18:52:16 surrounded by residential, less eastern south.

18:52:21 And then it adds a suggestion about the buffering.

18:52:25 Are you indicating that the, inconsistent




18:52:31 recommendation is removed if the buffering is changed?

18:52:33 Or no?

18:52:34 >> I don't believe so.

18:52:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You're the boss, so tell me.

18:52:41 >> Well--

18:52:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You're not our boss, but you're the

18:52:46 boss of your group.

18:52:48 >> I believe in Miss Anthony's discussion on page four,

18:52:51 where it talks about PD criteria and whether this use

18:52:53 is compatible, she found that given the existing

18:52:56 character of the area, the use was not compatible.

18:52:59 Because what it would generate.

18:53:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can you run back then the pictures

18:53:03 that surround that lot, that number two then?

18:53:06 And then of course the petitioner will have his chance

18:53:09 to make his case.

18:53:18 >> This is standing on LaSalle, looking north.

18:53:23 That's the fence.

18:53:30 That's the house.

18:53:32 That's the house to the east.

18:53:37 Immediately adjacent to the parking lot.

18:53:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.




18:53:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Is there a house to the west?

18:53:51 >> If we turned and went south, this is a house to the

18:53:54 south.

18:53:55 And then.

18:53:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Across the street.

18:53:59 >> Yes.

18:53:59 And then this is that nonconforming commercial use

18:54:06 immediately to the south.

18:54:11 >> I don't believe she has a picture -- this is looking

18:54:14 west, back toward -- the cigar factory.

18:54:17 So this is Albany, where Mr. Miranda was discussing the

18:54:20 possibility, I guess of vacating where that could be

18:54:23 split.

18:54:24 And this is I believe two duplexes.

18:54:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Those are two immediately to the

18:54:32 west.

18:54:32 >> Yes.

18:54:33 Across Albany.

18:54:37 >> Let me put the aerial back on and I'll show you

18:54:39 where we are.

18:54:40 So that's right over here.

18:54:42 Those are the duplexes to the west.




18:54:49 Two units here.

18:54:50 Two units here.

18:54:51 Then there's one more single-family, and then starts

18:54:55 the PD.

18:54:56 Okay.

18:54:57 And then we were right here and I showed you there was

18:54:59 a house here.

18:55:00 Two landmarked home structures here.

18:55:03 This was that game room here.

18:55:05 There is a home here.

18:55:07 And a series of houses here.

18:55:09 So, the multifamily here is a nonconforming and the

18:55:13 RS-50.

18:55:15 Because all of this is RS-50 with the exception of when

18:55:18 you come up and hit the CR line there.

18:55:20 And then this also is nonconforming to the south there.

18:55:23 Everything else predominantly in this area is

18:55:28 single-family residential.

18:55:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Put that back up again.

18:55:32 The aerial you had.

18:55:34 Then the number one is up there closer to Howard?

18:55:38 >> Right.




18:55:38 It's immediately adjacent to this commercial use here.

18:55:41 It used to be for.

18:55:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: They're already down?

18:55:46 >> Yes, sir.

18:55:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: All right.

18:55:49 Thank you.

18:55:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?

18:55:58 Petitioner?

18:56:01 >> Mr. Jammal, Jammal Engineering, 1910 West Kennedy

18:56:13 Boulevard, Tampa, 33306.

18:56:16 I have already been sworn in.

18:56:18 Couple things, Miss Feeley, didn't mention.

18:56:27 And some of it has to do with what Mr. Miranda was

18:56:30 asking.

18:56:31 The property that you see now as vacant land was, was

18:56:36 improved at one time.

18:56:37 And it was also a nonconforming use and it was used as

18:56:41 a commercial property.

18:56:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What are you talking about, number

18:56:46 one or number two?

18:56:47 >> Number two.

18:56:48 That was, that was a structure there at one time.




18:56:51 And DOT had acquired it through right-of-way

18:56:56 acquisition.

18:56:58 And they demolished the structure.

18:57:00 But then the alignment of the highway was changed, and

18:57:03 then the lot remained vacant.

18:57:06 And after it remained vacant, it became grounds for

18:57:11 illegal dumping, people were dumping hazardous waste

18:57:15 material, mattresses, lumber, all sorts of residential

18:57:21 trash in that area.

18:57:22 DOT owns this property.

18:57:26 We don't own it.

18:57:27 We're leasing it from DOT.

18:57:29 And we have cleaned up the property.

18:57:32 And yes, we did put gravel there.

18:57:34 And we are going through the process to acquire PD.

18:57:41 And would like for this petition to be, to be granted.

18:57:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Go ahead.

18:57:51 >> The property immediately across, what you were

18:57:55 asking on the south side, is also referred to as the

18:58:00 game room.

18:58:01 Is also a store, electrical supply store.

18:58:03 And to the west, you also got some nonconforming use.




18:58:10 So there's really no intrusion so to speak into that

18:58:13 residential area.

18:58:14 Whatever intrusion happened already happened.

18:58:19 And we're just improving something that was used for

18:58:25 illegal dumping.

18:58:26 And we have made that a lot more aesthetically pleasing

18:58:31 than it has been within the last five years.

18:58:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council Miranda, then councilmember

18:58:39 Dingfelder.

18:58:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to make reference to the

18:58:41 fence that I saw between property 2 and the house.

18:58:45 When I looked at it the first time, my eye didn't catch

18:58:49 it, but the second time it did.

18:58:51 I'm making an assumption that you didn't put up that

18:58:53 fence.

18:58:54 >> No, that was --

18:58:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Because the way the fence is

18:58:57 constructed, the homeowner had to put up the fence or

18:59:00 not, it was an illegal fence because the clear good

18:59:05 side faces your neighbor, which would be to the west.

18:59:08 No matter if there were illegal dumping or not, the law

18:59:12 requires to you have the poles or whatever holds up the




18:59:14 fence, through your side if you're the one building the

18:59:17 fence.

18:59:17 So, they're making reference to the fence, but that's

18:59:20 not your fence that you constructed, am I correct?

18:59:24 >> That is correct.

18:59:24 And we are going to be, just to correct what

18:59:27 Miss Feeley was with talking about.

18:59:28 We'll have a wrought iron fence similar to the property

18:59:33 on location one.

18:59:34 So it will be a lot more aesthetically pleasing.

18:59:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I got myself confused here.

18:59:42 You're going to put up a wrought iron fence between the

18:59:45 property and the house or wall fence between the

18:59:47 property and the house?

18:59:49 >> Between the house, the house to the east I think is

18:59:51 what you're talking about.

18:59:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Correct.

18:59:53 >> The house to the east, we'll be putting a masonry

18:59:56 wall.

18:59:57 So there will be the same layout that you see on

18:59:59 property one, will be on property two.

19:00:02 With the masonry wall, abut ting the residential lot.




19:00:07 And by the way, we do have a letter of support from

19:00:09 that property owner.

19:00:11 And they do want the wall there.

19:00:12 And they're very supportive of everything that we have

19:00:15 done in that neighborhood.

19:00:16 We have always gotten a lot of support from the other

19:00:21 neighbors on location one, in reference to the wall.

19:00:24 And one more thing before I forget, as far as urban

19:00:30 design had given an inconsistent comment.

19:00:34 But since that comment was made, urban design did

19:00:39 clarify some things to Towanda and maybe it didn't get

19:00:43 to Miss Feeley.

19:00:45 And that was already corrected.

19:00:48 And the comments that were given to Towanda were

19:00:53 consistent.

19:00:55 >> Charlie Miranda: I understand.

19:00:55 There was a game room.

19:00:57 Before that, it was, still had electrical supply, and

19:01:01 before that it was called Albany's grocery store.

19:01:04 >> That's right.

19:01:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Garcia told me that.

19:01:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilmember Dingfelder, then




19:01:11 councilmember Saul-Sena.

19:01:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think we're probably all somewhat

19:01:18 sympathetic, the need for parking, you know, clearly

19:01:23 when you started on this project X number of years ago,

19:01:26 it was obvious that there was going to be some need for

19:01:30 parking.

19:01:31 But, I guess it's just a function of making sure that

19:01:35 the parking fits.

19:01:37 My dentist on Davis Island has a little office right

19:01:41 there on Davis Boulevard.

19:01:44 He needed parking, so he bought the lot behind him.

19:01:49 And a single lot, and it's sandwiched between two very

19:01:54 nice single-family houses.

19:01:56 But it's a really nice parking lot for his staff.

19:01:58 And it's sort of offsite, but it fits.

19:02:04 And I don't think anybody ever complained about it.

19:02:06 When you talk about a reduction from 16 trees down to

19:02:09 zero trees, that's, and that would be the permanent

19:02:14 condition, it doesn't seem to really add much, you

19:02:18 know, in terms of aesthetics or just sort of comfort to

19:02:22 the residential neighborhood.

19:02:23 I'm glad you're going to do the wrought iron fence.




19:02:28 The masonry wall, is that going to step down as you

19:02:31 come toward the street?

19:02:33 >> No.

19:02:34 >> Does it stay six feet all the way out?

19:02:37 >> Yes.

19:02:38 >> Well, there's a little unusual, isn't it?

19:02:41 Because what?

19:02:43 Tell me, Abbye.

19:02:46 >> Specifically, the buffer that is required does run

19:02:49 the whole property line.

19:02:50 So it would run -- it's only when you're in a

19:02:54 residential, when the residential is putting in their

19:02:56 fence that it steps down.

19:02:58 But when you're buffering, because you could park up

19:03:00 into that front couple feet of the property.

19:03:05 That required buffer is more intensive uses does run

19:03:08 the property line from start to finish.

19:03:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So when you have the commercial type

19:03:13 next to residential, that's what we like?

19:03:15 >> Uh-huh.

19:03:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Because from a street perspective,

19:03:19 it's not a great look.




19:03:21 Mine, seems like stepping down would be a better look

19:03:24 for the street.

19:03:24 But you're saying from the neighbor's perspective, they

19:03:27 might prefer that?

19:03:29 Okay.

19:03:29 But anyway, just back to the trees, Mr. Jammal.

19:03:36 >> What do you want to talk about first?

19:03:38 The trees or the fence?

19:03:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I guess we are okay on the fence and

19:03:42 the wall.

19:03:43 Sound like.

19:03:44 You're asking for a significant reduction in trees.

19:03:47 Obviously you'd have to pay into the tree bank for that

19:03:50 reduction.

19:03:50 But that doesn't help that neighborhood.

19:03:52 And it looks like that neighborhood is there to stay.

19:03:56 >> We're, you know, these are numbers that we didn't

19:04:01 necessarily agree on.

19:04:02 But we have committed to them.

19:04:04 And.

19:04:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Committed to what?

19:04:08 >> We have committed for the, for the fee in Louvre




19:04:12 payment.

19:04:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I wasn't talking about that.

19:04:14 I'm talking about putting the trees in -- I've never

19:04:17 liked the in lieu thing because it doesn't add to that

19:04:20 specific neighborhood.

19:04:21 In terms of trees and green, you know, green and that

19:04:25 sort of thing.

19:04:26 >> There are some trees that are going to be planted in

19:04:30 the right-of-way.

19:04:30 And because, because some of the trees would, would

19:04:37 affect the sight trying angle, transportation was

19:04:42 against the planting of trees.

19:04:43 But, the if you notice -- so we are limited on the one

19:04:49 location number one, we're somewhat limited.

19:04:51 Now, we can plant a lot more trees, and which we'll,

19:04:55 we'll be seeking permission for that, along the north

19:04:57 side of LaSalle.

19:04:58 Which is independent of this PD.

19:05:02 But on the other side, which is location number two,

19:05:06 there's a section of green area, which is about

19:05:09 14 feet, I believe, 14 feet minus the five feet, 14.7

19:05:15 minus the five feet.




19:05:17 Around 10-foot section, that runs in the north-south

19:05:21 direction.

19:05:21 And --

19:05:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let me --

19:05:25 >> That's green area.

19:05:26 Let me finish.

19:05:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You're not getting to my core

19:05:30 question, which I probably haven't stated very well.

19:05:32 I think everybody who builds a parking lot in the city

19:05:35 would probably like to do it without trees so you can

19:05:37 maximum the number of spaces.

19:05:39 I'm assuming that's why you want to delete all the

19:05:42 trees, to maximize number of spaces.

19:05:46 All I'm saying is maybe there's a middle ground there.

19:05:49 Where you could add a few more trees between first and

19:05:52 second reading to make this more aesthetically pleasing

19:05:56 to the neighborhood as opposed to being 50 by 100 feet

19:06:00 of gravel lot, or whatever.

19:06:03 Without any landscaping.

19:06:05 That's what our code says.

19:06:08 Must say it for a reason.

19:06:10 And because we as a community have decided that trees




19:06:14 in parking lots are a good thing.

19:06:16 >> If you look at your side plan, you see that 14 feet

19:06:19 along the west side --

19:06:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Could somebody put it up so that

19:06:24 everybody can see what we are talking about?

19:06:44 >> There's a section on location two, and that section

19:06:48 is a green area.

19:06:49 And that's a section that we can add additional trees,

19:06:54 which would be with...

19:06:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think that's the point.

19:06:59 If you can do it, let's do it.

19:07:01 >> We could do it there.

19:07:02 There's a sidewalk.

19:07:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Your dimension of 14 feet includes

19:07:09 the five foot sidewalk.

19:07:11 So not 14 feet of green.

19:07:13 >> I said the 14 feet minus the sidewalk.

19:07:16 Which would give us about ten foot wide strip by 95.

19:07:20 And then we could add additional trees.

19:07:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You probably need to talk to Council

19:07:25 who are going to make the decision.

19:07:27 >> Thank you.




19:07:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: How about if we deferred it for one

19:07:31 or two more items, while you guys can maybe confer on

19:07:35 this a little bit.

19:07:36 Then we'll come back a little later in the evening and

19:07:39 resolve that.

19:07:40 It's important to me. I don't know if it's important

19:07:42 to the rest of Council.

19:07:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Miss Saul-Sena has her hand up.

19:07:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think what we should do, we

19:07:50 haven't heard from the public yet.

19:07:51 But I want to say, Mr. Jammal, you know I love what you

19:07:55 did with the building, historically beautiful.

19:07:58 But I can't accept this loss of trees.

19:08:00 It's just not, not the quality that we need in our

19:08:04 neighborhoods.

19:08:04 And also not planting a vine, that's easy.

19:08:07 So, I'd like to hear from the public and then maybe we

19:08:10 need to give the petitioner a time to make revisions,

19:08:15 if they can be made on-site.

19:08:18 And if it means giving up a couple parking space sews

19:08:21 that we can have the adequate number of trees, I think

19:08:24 that's really important.




19:08:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano and then Councilman

19:08:29 Miranda.

19:08:30 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Jammal, the entrance to

19:08:35 parking lot number two, is that going to be off LaSalle

19:08:39 or off the alleyway?

19:08:41 >> Yes, it will be off of LaSalle.

19:08:43 >> So there won't be an entrance in the back?

19:08:45 In other words--

19:08:46 >> That's correct.

19:08:48 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: The expressway.

19:08:49 >> That is correct.

19:08:50 We can add trees there in those islands.

19:08:54 We could put trees in all these islands.

19:09:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's good.

19:09:02 >> But that's something that staff didn't -- no, you

19:09:07 didn't recommend that.

19:09:08 We have been working on this since January.

19:09:10 We wanted to put trees in all these islands.

19:09:13 We could put four trees, I mean, we could do this right

19:09:16 now.

19:09:16 We could put four trees in the northern part.

19:09:19 And we --




19:09:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let him finish and I will have you come

19:09:23 back.

19:09:24 Go ahead.

19:09:24 >> And we could put two more trees on the south side in

19:09:28 addition to the ones on the right-of-way.

19:09:30 So we could put four on the north side.

19:09:32 And two on the south side.

19:09:34 That's six.

19:09:34 We could do the same things on the other lot.

19:09:36 We could do it.

19:09:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council Miranda?

19:09:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It sound great.

19:09:47 It sounds wonderful.

19:09:48 But when you start messing around with trees to the

19:09:51 north and that tree starts to grow, it's like planting

19:09:54 it under, we are real smart in government, we plant

19:09:56 them in the right-of-way right under the telephone

19:09:59 pole.

19:09:59 And then you've got to cut them.

19:10:01 Then everybody gets upset.

19:10:02 And I understand that.

19:10:03 So you plant trees there in the north, sooner or later




19:10:06 they're going to go over the expressway.

19:10:09 Entrance.

19:10:09 Unless you plant little trees that don't grow,

19:10:11 miniature.

19:10:13 Like me, midget trees.

19:10:14 >> They will be hollies like the ones we have already.

19:10:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I was saying then, I brought it up

19:10:20 to this Council over two years ago, over 100 grand

19:10:23 trees were Dorn town by the expressway.

19:10:26 Not one peep was said.

19:10:28 >> That's because it was the federal government.

19:10:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Government treats government

19:10:32 different.

19:10:33 Can.

19:10:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It was the federal government.

19:10:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I don't care if it's federal

19:10:37 government, state government or whatever.

19:10:38 Government does whatever they want.

19:10:40 But when it comes to individualism, you got to pay,

19:10:44 brother.

19:10:44 So you're going to have to put the trees or give the

19:10:46 money.




19:10:47 And you sed say you want to put the trees in the north

19:10:51 in lieu of the money.

19:10:52 I'm for that.

19:10:52 But I don't know if that meets the requirement of the

19:10:55 city.

19:10:55 City has more laws than passengers visit the statute of

19:11:00 liberty.

19:11:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilmember Caetano.

19:11:05 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Miss Abbye, why don't you want

19:11:07 trees in the islands?

19:11:10 >> Abbye Feeley, land development.

19:11:11 We do want trees in the island.

19:11:13 I know that Mary requested and the problem, to plant a

19:11:16 two inch tree, you need a six foot protective radius

19:11:20 from the trunk of that tree to allow to it grow.

19:11:22 I can show you the pictures. Islands that have already

19:11:25 been constructed 0 location one.

19:11:26 And they're very small.

19:11:28 It's not sufficient.

19:11:29 We need that six foot.

19:11:31 So he's saying there's an island there.

19:11:33 I need to see that six foot protective radius that goes




19:11:36 around that tree and that island.

19:11:38 And it's not.

19:11:40 He's going to need to lose a couple spaces to

19:11:42 accommodate that by code.

19:11:43 Because the only thing we are doing is setting up a

19:11:45 tree just to die if we're not giving it amount of space

19:11:49 it needs to grow.

19:11:50 So our code requires, actually requires a ten foot.

19:11:52 But typically we'll take six.

19:11:54 And then they can use some structural soils.

19:11:57 I think on location one, it's already done, as you can

19:12:01 see.

19:12:02 Location two already has that gravel there.

19:12:03 It may have little bit more ability to accommodate some

19:12:06 additional plantings.

19:12:08 That is the larger and it does require I think I said

19:12:12 12 trees.

19:12:13 So, he's going to put two in those front islands -- I'm

19:12:17 sorry, just one.

19:12:18 Here, let me show you real quick.

19:12:20 I did discuss this with Mary before I came over this

19:12:27 evening.




19:12:28 As you can see here, you have that triangle area.

19:12:32 So that's much substantially larger.

19:12:35 That is an island that could accommodate.

19:12:37 This right here, that can't.

19:12:38 It needs to come out and square off so you can put a

19:12:41 tree right in the middle there.

19:12:42 Right in the middle there.

19:12:43 One of the other buffers that we talked about, one of

19:12:45 the other waivers was that eight foot.

19:12:47 You're supposed to have eight foot of green before you

19:12:50 start these spaces.

19:12:51 These spaces come down.

19:12:53 Exactly to the property line.

19:12:54 Okay.

19:12:55 So, that's one of the reasons why those additional

19:12:58 plantings can't be accommodated in the current

19:13:00 configuration that Mr. Jammal has on the site.

19:13:06 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: What type of tree are you

19:13:07 requiring there?

19:13:08 >> It would be your typically required, 50% shade and

19:13:12 60% native of the ones that you're required to plant.

19:13:15 So of the 12 trees, he would be required 50% shade




19:13:18 trees.

19:13:18 I'm not sure about the power line situation out there.

19:13:22 We do have power lines species that he could use.

19:13:26 Red bought or holly or something like that.

19:13:28 There are some opportunities there for shade that's

19:13:30 also kind of a lower growing tree that would, you know,

19:13:34 shade some of that surface area.

19:13:39 >> He should also put an island in the mail.

19:13:46 >>GWEN MILLER: You're saying if he lose one or two

19:13:48 parking space and put those trees in that island, that

19:13:51 would be satisfactory to you?

19:13:53 >> I think he'd be getting closer.

19:13:55 We are going to need to see that on the site plan.

19:13:58 It's rather difficult where you say I can put one here.

19:14:01 I need to measure that out with a scale to say it's

19:14:04 adequate.

19:14:05 I would hate for us to say put them in there and then

19:14:08 we drive by the site and those plants are dead.

19:14:11 Other thing he mentioned was the fencing.

19:14:13 And that is not shown on the site plan anywhere.

19:14:15 I do want to be very clear on that.

19:14:17 That needs to be clearly delineated on that site plan,




19:14:20 where the fence, what type of fence it is.

19:14:22 Is it a knee wall with wrought iron on top?

19:14:26 Is it just wrought iron?

19:14:27 That is controlled when you go into a site plan

19:14:30 controlled zoning district.

19:14:31 So we do need more details on that.

19:14:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Jammal, go back and sit down with

19:14:37 you and you all need to go through that again and plan

19:14:38 it out.

19:14:39 >> No, ma'am.

19:14:41 >>GWEN MILLER: How you going to find out -- so you want

19:14:42 to put it on the plan?

19:14:43 So when you going to do it?

19:14:45 >> Between first and second reading?

19:14:47 >> That was one of our statements on the revision

19:14:49 sheet.

19:14:49 But when this was originally submitted, there wasn't

19:14:51 any fencing even on lot one.

19:14:53 I have a set of pictures we took before we went to DRC,

19:14:57 there is fencing out there.

19:14:59 That's when it came to our attention there was no

19:15:02 fencing on the site plan coming before you.




19:15:04 So we needed to get that on the revision sheet and get

19:15:06 Mr. Jammal to take care of that.

19:15:09 >>GWEN MILLER: So we can do it between first and second

19:15:11 reading?

19:15:12 >> I think the fencing in combination with the trees,

19:15:14 probably we would like to sit down and look at before

19:15:16 you went to first reading.

19:15:18 If that's what you're going to be requesting is some

19:15:21 plantings.

19:15:22 >>GWEN MILLER: So we need to continue this?

19:15:24 Need to be continued?

19:15:25 >> Depending on the desires of Council, yes, ma'am.

19:15:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let's hear from the public.

19:15:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

19:15:35 Finished sir?

19:15:37 Be seated.

19:15:38 Okay.

19:15:39 Anyone from the public wish to address Council on this

19:15:42 petition?

19:15:43 Anyone else?

19:15:49 >> Good evening, Council.

19:15:50 Benjamin Buckley, 1705 state street.




19:15:53 And I'm vice-president of the neighborhood association

19:15:56 there.

19:15:57 I wanted to--I heard councilmember Linda Saul-Sena talk

19:16:04 about what a great job he did.

19:16:06 Mr. Jammal has done a very good job there, with this

19:16:10 cigar factory.

19:16:12 He's done a first class job, I would say, every single

19:16:15 brick in the building has been repointed.

19:16:18 He's going over this building with exceptional detail.

19:16:22 And I wanted everyone to know that.

19:16:25 And I would encourage you all to go look at it and see

19:16:29 what a first class job is.

19:16:30 Secondly, I would, I would encourage the Council to

19:16:37 help Mr. Jammal and the university with this parking

19:16:41 issue.

19:16:41 And I'm pleased to, to know that the Council is

19:16:46 concerned about the trees.

19:16:47 We are too in the neighborhood.

19:16:48 And we would like that resolved and the trees planted.

19:16:53 And I'm sure Mr. Jammal is going to do that.

19:16:55 I've seen other projects he's done.

19:16:58 And I have if full confidence that, that he'll do a




19:17:03 good job.

19:17:04 And this neighborhood, this now, the cigar factory has

19:17:10 become kind of a landmark in the neighborhood.

19:17:12 This neighborhood, I have been there 30 years, I used

19:17:14 to live right there on Albany.

19:17:16 And that was well known as cracks Boulevard or whatever

19:17:22 you want to call it.

19:17:23 And it's really exceptional now.

19:17:25 The neighborhood's changed and I hope we can encourage

19:17:28 more people like Mr. Jammal to come in there and do

19:17:32 projects like this.

19:17:33 Thank you.

19:17:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else?

19:17:36 Okay.

19:17:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think the appropriate thing would

19:17:42 be to continue this to allow Mr. Jammal to redraw the

19:17:49 PD showing more trees and more green space and

19:17:52 indicating the existing fences as well as the proposed

19:17:56 fences.

19:17:56 And I think that probably -- this is a question for

19:18:01 Mr. Jammal and staff.

19:18:03 Would 30 days accomplish that?




19:18:04 Would that give you a chance to redraw that or could do

19:18:07 you in it two weeks?

19:18:09 >> I think we could do this between first and second

19:18:12 reading.

19:18:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It has the to be really redrawn.

19:18:15 I think it has --

19:18:17 >> Probably redraw in ten minutes.

19:18:19 All we have to do is replicate what we have on location

19:18:21 one and show the wrought iron on location number two.

19:18:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Actually what I had in mind, you

19:18:27 were asking for such a significant waiver in terms of

19:18:30 trees -- you're asking to waive the vast majority of

19:18:36 trees on this site.

19:18:37 And I think if you were to reconfigure the beginning of

19:18:41 your, the closest to the street portion, so you have

19:18:46 more green space and more trees, that would be

19:18:50 acceptable.

19:18:51 >> The trees, the trees will survive and, two inch

19:18:55 trees can survive in these islands.

19:18:57 We have them already on the other side.

19:18:59 And they've survived fine.

19:19:01 We have had them about a year and a half to two years




19:19:04 now.

19:19:04 And we can have in every one of these islands, we can

19:19:07 have trees.

19:19:08 And then once we have two on the south side, and four

19:19:12 on the north side, that's six.

19:19:14 So all we would night is a waiver for one.

19:19:16 We Kevin have three or four more trees along the west

19:19:20 side.

19:19:21 With that section, that little strip of ten foot by

19:19:24 95 feet, we could put four more trees, five more trees.

19:19:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I think staff is saying they want

19:19:29 to sit down and look at it and make sure that you have

19:19:32 the right size trees and the right space diameter and

19:19:36 all that.

19:19:37 I think that's what Miss Feeley is talking about.

19:19:40 I guess it's going to take more than two weeks to do

19:19:42 that is what I'm hearing, is that right?

19:19:46 Miss Feeley, can you come to the mike please, get it on

19:19:49 the record?

19:19:52 >> Two weeks would be a morning hearing?

19:19:58 Would be June 24th, I believe.

19:20:00 Would be the next morning hearing that we cold come




19:20:04 back.

19:20:04 Because the next one would be June 3rd and I don't feel

19:20:07 comfortable with June 3rd, really that is only four

19:20:10 days to look at this.

19:20:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We said.

19:20:14 >>GWEN MILLER: June are 4th would be fine.

19:20:16 >> You don't, your meeting, your next meeting is

19:20:19 June 3rd.

19:20:20 Then not again.

19:20:22 >> The next night meeting one June 10th?

19:20:25 >> The next night meeting is June 10th.

19:20:27 Yes.

19:20:28 >>GWEN MILLER: That time enough?

19:20:30 >> I believe we could probably bring it back to you by

19:20:32 then.

19:20:33 If Mr. Jammal could get it to us probably by mid week

19:20:36 next week.

19:20:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilmember Dingfelder and

19:20:41 councilmember Saul-Sena.

19:20:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm fine with that.

19:20:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My motion would be to continue this

19:20:49 till June 10th.




19:20:50 But Mr. Jammal, you really need to work to get as many

19:20:53 trees as possible to meet the required number of trees.

19:20:56 We're much more interested in having the trees planted,

19:20:59 particularly shade trees, than having an in lieu fee.

19:21:03 We really would like the shade.

19:21:05 Because the interstate is going to have a tremendous

19:21:07 heat gain.

19:21:08 And to protect the neighborhood as much as possible,

19:21:13 the trees are so important.

19:21:16 >> I agree with that.

19:21:17 And it's cheaper to plant the trees than to pay the

19:21:20 fee.

19:21:21 [ Laughter ]

19:21:22 >> But we have been going back and forth on this.

19:21:26 Since January.

19:21:27 Prior to January, three months before that.

19:21:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

19:21:30 Okay.

19:21:31 Well, the motion is that you meet with staff, work out

19:21:35 the details on fencing, right?

19:21:37 And the trees.

19:21:38 Those are the two outstanding items.




19:21:40 Then come back June 10th.

19:21:44 >> If I can just inquire.

19:21:45 Do you agree with that continuance?

19:21:47 Because you have a right to have a vote tonight.

19:21:49 But you understand where Council is coming from.

19:21:52 And suggest a continuance.

19:21:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You have a right for us to take a vote,

19:21:57 but I'm going to tell you now, you'll lose tonight.

19:22:00 You have that right.

19:22:02 I'm just telling you.

19:22:04 >> Is it then you agree to the continuance, sir?

19:22:07 >> Of course, after that comment.

19:22:08 [ Laughter ]

19:22:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The motion and second, all in favor

19:22:15 signify by saying aye.

19:22:16 Opposes?

19:22:18 >> Thank you.

19:22:21 >> Motion carried.

19:22:22 Mr. Chairman, was that until June tenth?

19:22:25 >> June 10th, yes.

19:22:27 >> 6:00 p.m.?

19:22:29 >> Yes.




19:22:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And that will be first reading when

19:22:34 it comes back.

19:22:55 >> Abbye Feeley, land development.

19:22:58 Next item on your agenda is Z 10-08, located at 227

19:23:02 North Meridian Avenue.

19:23:04 The request before you this evening is to rezone from

19:23:07 CD-3, which is the Channel District site plan

19:23:11 controlled district, back to a CD-1, which is the

19:23:16 Euclidian district in the Channel District.

19:23:19 This was previously site plan controlled for a

19:23:26 residential tower.

19:23:27 With multifamily retail office, restaurant and

19:23:31 commercial general uses, which is to go tonight to the

19:23:35 CD-1, which allows for a multitude of uses, including

19:23:39 warehouse and hotel trade, which I believe Mr. Horne

19:23:42 will speak to you about.

19:23:44 >> Can I ask a question?

19:23:52 >> Good evening, again, members of Council, Tony

19:23:56 Garcia, Planning Commission staff.

19:23:58 I see my audience has dwindled a little bit.

19:24:01 Okay, I have been sworn.

19:24:04 Let me go ahead and show you real quickly.




19:24:07 This is again another one of those central district

19:24:09 developments.

19:24:10 This is in specifically the Channel District, which is

19:24:13 on the eastern edge of the downtown core.

19:24:15 As we all know.

19:24:16 Sandwiched in between Ybor to the north and of course

19:24:19 CBD to the west.

19:24:21 Let me show you an aerial.

19:24:23 Here's a grand central project.

19:24:26 This was the beginning of the Slade project right over

19:24:29 here, which we all know is complete and looks very

19:24:31 nice.

19:24:32 A very nice district to the Channel District.

19:24:34 Here's the site in question.

19:24:35 When this came to you all, it was approved a couple

19:24:39 years ago for a tower.

19:24:41 I think goes up to approximately 480 feet.

19:24:43 That would have been one of the tallest structures in

19:24:46 the Channel District.

19:24:47 So right at the intersection of Meridian and Kennedy.

19:24:54 So, this would have been one of the gateways into the

19:24:58 Channel District.




19:25:00 This was CD-1, went to CD-3, now it's coming back to

19:25:03 you again to go back to its original state of CD-1.

19:25:06 Is the last use -- land use category, before I get the

19:25:10 into the various categories.

19:25:11 Still going under a process of course because of the

19:25:14 economy and everything, we know that a lot of these

19:25:16 properties have been distressed and some of them have

19:25:20 either gone into receivership or none have been

19:25:23 developed at all.

19:25:23 Especially these larger properties to the north that

19:25:26 have already been approved for some really nice

19:25:28 development that unfortunately we haven't been able to

19:25:30 see materialize.

19:25:31 But that being the case, we do know that what still

19:25:35 exists is a little bit of a hodgepodge of warehouses,

19:25:39 such as what currently exist over here an there are a

19:25:41 couple other warehouse uses directly to the east, as

19:25:44 one goes along Kennedy to Channelside drive.

19:25:48 And there's still a couple warehouse uses also on this

19:25:52 north side of Twiggs.

19:25:54 We are still seeing evidence of that and still some

19:25:57 distressed properties along Meridian, which is




19:26:02 unfortunately one of our major gateways leading up into

19:26:05 Harbour Island.

19:26:06 That being said.

19:26:08 Let me go ahead and show you what the land use

19:26:11 categories are.

19:26:11 Most of the land use categories in the regional, levy

19:26:17 industrial uses, still along the northern part, channel

19:26:19 side drive and where Twiggs is at, some heavy

19:26:25 industrial land use category.

19:26:26 Basically the applicant is asking to revert back to wag

19:26:31 they are, I guess they're able to generate cash flow

19:26:33 with whatever the present businesses is there, which

19:26:36 deals with outdoor storage, which requires CI use,

19:26:40 which I believe is why they are coming back for CD-1.

19:26:43 There are issues with buffering and screening that

19:26:45 they're going to have to deal with because of the

19:26:47 nature of the business itself.

19:26:48 So I think that's going to be one of your main

19:26:50 concerns.

19:26:51 But as far as the requested use under the CD-1, it is

19:26:55 consistent with the CI, what was presently there, or

19:26:58 previously there.




19:26:59 I think they had an LI use that was there.

19:27:01 But now they went to go to CI use to the reflect the

19:27:04 business currently going on.

19:27:06 Planning Commission staff requests consistent with

19:27:09 comprehensive plan as it lays underlying land use.

19:27:13 And property was previously CD-1 to begin with.

19:27:28 >> Abbye Feeley, land development.

19:27:30 I think the request before you is clear.

19:27:32 Once you go to a site plan controlled district, unless

19:27:36 that use isn't allowable use on that district, up

19:27:39 conditions have that use.

19:27:40 That's one of the reason why the applicant is before

19:27:42 you this evening.

19:27:43 The site contains 40,851 square feet.

19:27:47 And the existing use is a port related warehouse,

19:27:50 wholesale trade business.

19:27:52 Surrounded by industrial to the south.

19:27:54 Mixed use residential commercial to the east and north.

19:27:57 Going to show this to you.

19:27:58 No waivers can be granted with this.

19:28:00 No conditions either.

19:28:01 It's like if we were going back to a CG or CI district.




19:28:05 They will have to meet all code provisions.

19:28:07 If this were approved this evening, they would then go

19:28:09 through a change of use to establish that use on the

19:28:12 property.

19:28:12 In which the open storage requirements for buffering

19:28:15 and screening would be required.

19:28:16 Let me go ahead and show you where we are.

19:28:22 As Tony said, and what you have down here are a lot of

19:28:30 CD-3s.

19:28:31 I think one night a couple years ago we did five of

19:28:34 these in an evening.

19:28:35 We went till close to 2:00 a.m.

19:28:37 This is the Slade, that CD-3 there, with Kennedy to the

19:28:42 north, Meridian to the west.

19:28:44 Washington to the south.

19:28:46 I think Tony showed you a great aerial.

19:28:52 Here is one with grand central to the north.

19:28:55 The Slade.

19:28:56 Mostly finished here.

19:28:58 Wrapping the building.

19:28:59 And 11th over to the east, Meridian, Jackson street.

19:29:02 The pick the tour of the site standing at the corner of




19:29:12 the grand central, looking south.

19:29:20 This is looking east.

19:29:21 Across Meridian.

19:29:24 The existing warehouse structure that is on-site.

19:29:29 And that's the rear of the property.

19:29:32 This is looking east toward the Slade.

19:29:37 Just a picture of the Slade I thought pretty cool.

19:29:44 Brought one in.

19:29:46 Came out really nice.

19:29:48 This is looking east on Kennedy.

19:29:53 That's grand central.

19:29:55 Bottom grand of grand central, here's a different look

19:30:01 there.

19:30:01 Looking back west.

19:30:03 And the linear type park, that runs along Meridian,

19:30:09 because are at the southeast corner of Kennedy and

19:30:12 Meridian.

19:30:13 Which is looking back into downtown.

19:30:16 As Mr. Garcia pointed out, there are other warehouse

19:30:22 uses that are still present within the Channel

19:30:24 District.

19:30:25 Which I believe Miss Anthony referenced in her report




19:30:31 and found this use consistent.

19:30:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question, Miss Feeley.

19:30:39 And it's about the Channel District and design

19:30:41 guidelines.

19:30:42 It's my understanding that we have adopted design

19:30:45 guidelines for the Channel District.

19:30:47 So the question I have is, if this property lost its

19:30:53 grandfathered status because it changed.

19:30:56 It changed to a CBD-3.

19:30:58 Now it's trying to go back to a CBD-1--CD?

19:31:04 Throwing in an extra letter there.

19:31:06 Anyway, as it morphs back into something else, would

19:31:11 whatever's on there be subject to the Channel District

19:31:14 design guidelines?

19:31:17 >> Typically when you have, in this case, it's not a

19:31:20 vacant lot.

19:31:20 So you have an existing nonconforming structure that is

19:31:24 on the lot.

19:31:25 Typically conformance or compliance with the district

19:31:28 standards is usually when you are undergoing a major

19:31:31 renovation, which is 51% of the assessed value of the

19:31:34 property.




19:31:35 I don't believe they're going to be making any

19:31:37 modifications where they're going to trigger compliance

19:31:40 at this time.

19:31:40 Since, if it were to be destroyed in excess of 75% and

19:31:45 built back, then they would be required to comply.

19:31:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay, this is my question.

19:31:50 What I saw in the photographs that you showed us,

19:31:53 appeared to be a chain link fence with some canvas

19:31:56 behind it and a sign saying we buy or sell cars.

19:31:59 I can't imagine that that's is in compliance with the

19:32:05 design guidelines.

19:32:06 So therefore, my question is, if we grant this zoning,

19:32:11 does that legitimize what's there?

19:32:16 >> It will make the use conforming.

19:32:18 Which is the warehouse use.

19:32:21 But this does not comply with our open storage

19:32:23 requirements.

19:32:24 So they're first going to trigger the open storage

19:32:27 requirements for the use that they're proposing, which

19:32:29 is going to be other screening than this chain link.

19:32:33 It is going to be a wall.

19:32:34 That they're going to be required when they go through




19:32:37 change of use, they are going to be required to buffer,

19:32:40 according to 27138, which requires a wall.

19:32:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What about signage?

19:32:48 >> And they will need to comply with 20.5 as well.

19:32:51 I am not to say the photos I showed you have legal

19:32:54 signage on them.

19:32:55 I went out to the site at that time.

19:32:57 This site is currently under citation and it could be

19:32:59 that they are under citation for their signage as well.

19:33:02 I don't typically review or speak to that when we look

19:33:05 at the rezoning and requested uses that are

19:33:08 appropriate.

19:33:08 This site is going to be required to go through a chain

19:33:11 of use.

19:33:11 It is going to be required to comply with provision of

19:33:15 code, which includes signage, open storage, parking.

19:33:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: With the proposed land use change

19:33:20 allow a surface parking lot or, or used car sales?

19:33:28 >> It does not allow for a car sales lot.

19:33:31 Which is not way believe, this is a wholesale.

19:33:35 These cars come in, they go out on boats to be

19:33:37 dismantled in other countries through the port is what




19:33:41 my understanding of this use on the property.

19:33:44 I'll let Mr. Horner speak to that.

19:33:47 Let me just check the CD-1 for the surface parking,

19:33:50 which I don't believe.

19:33:50 But auto sales, typical sales lot like Honda, Toyota,

19:33:55 would not be allowed there.

19:33:57 >> Or retail.

19:33:59 >> Right.

19:33:59 We can't walk up and buy a car there.

19:34:01 That is not a permitted use.

19:34:03 So let me just double-check that chart for you while

19:34:05 Mr. Horner is making his presentation.

19:34:07 I can get back with you on that.

19:34:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.

19:34:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?

19:34:12 Mr. Horner?

19:34:16 >> Chairman and Council, thank you.

19:34:17 Good evening, I'm Michael Horner, 14052 North Dale

19:34:21 Mabry Highway.

19:34:22 I have been sworn.

19:34:23 Representing the owner/applicant, Calderazzo family, BC

19:34:29 Management, Inc.




19:34:29 Mr. Chairman, quite honestly, this petition comes to

19:34:30 you with unanimous recommendations of approval,

19:34:32 consistency findings from the Planning Commission.

19:34:35 They have no objections from the review agencies.

19:34:37 And if you look in your report, you can see that on

19:34:40 every single point, would be consistent with the review

19:34:46 criteria for the CD-1 district requested.

19:34:49 However, I was made aware of an e-mail that was sent

19:34:53 out earlier this week, I think Council was copied on

19:34:56 it.

19:34:57 Then I saw a couple people coming in and I realized we

19:35:00 may have some opposition tonight.

19:35:01 So allow me to make just a brief presentation.

19:35:03 So we can get some documents filed into the record.

19:35:07 My client is Calderazzo family, as I indicated.

19:35:12 Unfortunately, bill Calderazzo is out of state.

19:35:17 He was here for the May 13th for example hearing.

19:35:19 It was bumped to tonight.

19:35:20 Wishes he could have been here to present his case

19:35:22 personally.

19:35:23 He's very passionate about this.

19:35:26 Channelside district.




19:35:27 He's been a player in there from day one.

19:35:30 Been all the committees, all the reviews, threw his hat

19:35:33 in the ring.

19:35:34 Owned this property since 1983.

19:35:35 So no one was more excited to have this approval in

19:35:39 19 -- excuse me, 2007 for the high rise than my client.

19:35:44 For obvious reasons.

19:35:45 Everybody wins.

19:35:46 The city wins, tax ad valorem revenue, beautiful

19:35:49 building gets constructed.

19:35:50 My client would have made significant amount of money.

19:35:53 That market did not materialize, unfortunately.

19:35:55 So, tonight, we're here to go back down that ladder.

19:36:00 Everybody pushed us up.

19:36:01 Everybody indicated this is what the new direction of

19:36:03 the Channelside district.

19:36:05 We were all excited.

19:36:06 No one more so than my client.

19:36:08 With me tonight is Scott Calderazzo.

19:36:11 Bill's son is going to speak to you briefly after I

19:36:13 complete my comments.

19:36:14 We're seeking the CD-1.




19:36:17 It's a non-site plan binding district.

19:36:20 It's been in place for years.

19:36:21 My clients had that zoning for years.

19:36:23 My clients had this use under ownership, as I

19:36:27 indicated, since 1983.

19:36:28 It has been continuously used for CI type open storage,

19:36:32 manufacturing uses because it was zoned M-1 many years

19:36:37 ago, the most intensive zoning district in the City of

19:36:39 Tampa since the 1920s.

19:36:41 In fact, the initial Tampa railroad cars were

19:36:44 fabricated and constructed on this site.

19:36:46 Mr. Dingfelder, do you have a comment?

19:36:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I just have a question when you're

19:36:52 done.

19:36:53 >> So we went through that approval process, my clients

19:36:56 were excited.

19:36:58 That plan was approved.

19:37:00 It was ZO, I want to say ZO-738.

19:37:04 That was documented in your plan backup materials for

19:37:11 Meridian place.

19:37:12 It was 425 feet in height.

19:37:14 Approximately 10,000 square feet of retail, boutique,




19:37:20 restaurants.

19:37:21 38 stories and about 259 units.

19:37:26 The majority of that building was on my client's

19:37:28 property.

19:37:29 Extensions were granted under the options.

19:37:32 Another extension was granted for the options.

19:37:34 This was after the mad rush in 2000 to 2000 -- when was

19:37:39 it?

19:37:40 2005.

19:37:40 Then about 2006, Council, I think everybody saw the

19:37:43 writing on the wall.

19:37:44 The clients that put this property under option were

19:37:49 with still believing the market would be accepting and

19:37:53 accommodating and would absorb those kind of units and

19:37:57 that development.

19:37:57 They tried a third option extension, then the bank said

19:38:00 you're shut down.

19:38:01 We are not going to finance any condominium projects in

19:38:05 the city.

19:38:06 So for that reason, my client reverted back to what

19:38:09 this property has been used for for the last 80, 90

19:38:12 years.




19:38:13 And that is open storage, CI type development.

19:38:16 As Miss Feeley indicated, it's true.

19:38:18 This is not a used car sales lot.

19:38:20 You don't walk in.

19:38:21 You don't buy a used car.

19:38:23 This is a wholesale distribution facility.

19:38:27 This is completely regulated under the port of Tampa

19:38:31 for their import-export operations.

19:38:35 This is certainly a port-related use.

19:38:37 The cars are retained, purchased and then shipped to

19:38:40 the port and shipped primarily to South America.

19:38:42 Or they're sold to other secondary markets, scrap

19:38:46 metal, part markets.

19:38:48 They certainly are not torn apart here.

19:38:50 No fabrication, no assembly, no welding, no breaking

19:38:55 apart of the parts.

19:38:56 The vehicles are not sold piecemeal.

19:39:00 As they come in, they are shipped out.

19:39:03 It's a busy operation.

19:39:05 If you go there any day, you'll see cars pulling in

19:39:08 with trucks, loading them in, loading them out.

19:39:11 Pretty efficient operation.




19:39:12 Six employees.

19:39:13 Who depend on income, the families, food, the children,

19:39:16 school tuition.

19:39:18 These people are also residents of Tampa.

19:39:19 So what have we asked for?

19:39:22 We have asked for essentially the same district that's

19:39:25 existed for years.

19:39:26 The use has not changed.

19:39:29 The use is still same type of use that's been there for

19:39:33 a number of years.

19:39:34 Whether it says CR auto or caterpillar machinery,

19:39:39 operation was there for some years, aluminum

19:39:42 manufacturer was there for some years.

19:39:44 Other more intensive, light industrial operations.

19:39:48 This tenant has been there for the last year.

19:39:51 We have had no complaints.

19:39:51 I'm here to tell you, my office has not received one

19:39:55 call, with the exception of a courtesy call from Ken

19:39:58 Stoltenberg, developer of Grand Central.

19:40:02 Ken called me up and said you know, I just had some

19:40:04 questions.

19:40:05 Let's sit down and take a quick look at your plan and




19:40:08 see what your thoughts are and Larry my concerns.

19:40:10 We had a meeting this week, pleasant meeting.

19:40:13 We appreciated his time.

19:40:14 And he said going up the ladder might be tough once you

19:40:17 go down the ladder.

19:40:18 You might want to think about that.

19:40:19 A good thought.

19:40:20 My client has to pay taxes.

19:40:22 My client does not want to pad lack Loch this business

19:40:26 up.

19:40:26 My client does not want to have another vacant being

19:40:30 blighted light in the City of Tampa.

19:40:32 In a perfect world, you would just wait five to 10

19:40:36 years, somehow come up with the taxes, somehow come up

19:40:40 with the property maintenance and the upkeep and hope

19:40:42 another Donald trump comes into town and says we are

19:40:45 going to give you a gazillion dollars and did a two

19:40:49 hundred story building.

19:40:50 Those days are not going to be coming here any time

19:40:52 soon, from what I'm hearing in the market criteria and

19:40:55 lending criteria.

19:40:56 In the meantime, if there's any developer that is




19:40:58 interested in my client's property, he is more than

19:41:01 willing to back zone to the CD-3 district or retain it.

19:41:06 It's been under brokerage agreements.

19:41:08 It's been discussed, it's been reviewed.

19:41:10 We will have consultant after consultant.

19:41:14 No one is interested in buying this problem.

19:41:16 Only tenant interested in using this property are those

19:41:19 related to the port.

19:41:20 We have tried to be good neighbors.

19:41:22 When Ken indicated gosh, Jim was a little concerned

19:41:25 about what it looked like.

19:41:26 My clients ran out, and put up the blue fabric.

19:41:29 That entire screening along the Meridian frontage and

19:41:33 Kennedy frontage.

19:41:34 When they said some of the cars seemed to be pulled a

19:41:36 little on the sidewalk and the gates open.

19:41:38 Client says lets take care of that.

19:41:41 Gates closed.

19:41:41 Went out there, every other week, pressure washed all

19:41:44 the sidewalks.

19:41:45 There's no oil stains.

19:41:46 Walk by there now, pretty nice looking sidewalk.




19:41:49 My clients also agree to come back and on the Meridian

19:41:52 side, paint, pressure wash and repair some of those

19:41:55 blocks so when you pull -- let's admit it, it is

19:41:59 gateway to the channel side district.

19:42:01 You come off that Kennedy bridge, it's right there

19:42:03 front and center.

19:42:04 He's agreed to try to make that look as attractive and

19:42:07 possible.

19:42:07 As Abbye said, this district requires nor allows any

19:42:10 waivers.

19:42:11 We don't have a choice.

19:42:12 It's a tough nut to crack for my client.

19:42:15 He only gets certain amount of rent.

19:42:18 Has to pay taxes, operating expenses.

19:42:20 But my client has agreed he'll have to go through that

19:42:23 a change of use plan.

19:42:24 He has to agree to the screening.

19:42:27 Those agree to the buffering, landscaping, whatever it

19:42:29 takes to keep his income stream coming in at a bare

19:42:32 minimum.

19:42:33 So they can at least stay level with inflation.

19:42:36 My client is not in a position to padlock this and




19:42:39 leave it vacant for five to 10 years and wait for

19:42:41 another developer to offer him a high rise contract.

19:42:45 You know, I went to a seminar Miss Saul-Sena, how many

19:42:53 times we heard Andre speak.

19:42:54 And I think it was American planning association

19:42:57 meeting.

19:42:58 I want to say the Orlando meeting some years ago.

19:43:01 And the number one contributing factor to urban polite

19:43:07 and decay, everybody thought, we all raised our hands

19:43:10 and said drug dealing, and loitering and gangs.

19:43:16 And the number one contributing factor is vacant

19:43:19 buildings.

19:43:20 That's why in all his urban redesign in the central

19:43:24 city areas, he stresses doing something on the sidewalk

19:43:30 side.

19:43:30 Screening, screening the empty door front, the window

19:43:34 front.

19:43:34 And allowing activity, because when you walk between

19:43:38 beautiful building front, beautiful building front, sea

19:43:42 side, seaport.

19:43:43 And then you have a vacant blur of building, it sure

19:43:46 takes away that synergy.




19:43:48 It would be a shape if going up that ladder, now coming

19:43:51 back down that my client ironically, the very, the very

19:43:55 man who says I'm throwing my hat in the ring, I believe

19:43:57 in the Channelside district, and then that was pulled

19:44:00 out from under him.

19:44:02 Now he's stuck with a real dilemma.

19:44:04 I believe in Channelside district.

19:44:07 I want the CD-3 district.

19:44:09 It expires no two years.

19:44:10 Who's going to come and close on the project?

19:44:13 No one.

19:44:13 How do I maintain this property?

19:44:15 I have a tenant in there that's responsible, tries to

19:44:19 take care of his business.

19:44:20 That has his family, pays their taxes and import taxes,

19:44:24 tries to be a good neighbor.

19:44:26 And hopefully, hopefully this time will change.

19:44:30 And we'll have a project there that everybody aspires

19:44:33 to.

19:44:34 When you look at the building, and you think this would

19:44:37 have been probably one of the highest, tallest

19:44:40 skyscraper structures in the Channelside district.




19:44:43 It's beautiful.

19:44:47 Meridian place.

19:44:49 425 feet tall.

19:44:50 And I just, you know, my client and I went through all

19:44:55 the contracts.

19:44:55 I said wow, this was your dream.

19:44:57 This was the fruition of your entire desire and holing

19:45:01 this property from 1983.

19:45:02 Everybody else is pretty fortunate.

19:45:04 They tapped into that market just a little bit prior to

19:45:06 the collapse in 2005 and 2006.

19:45:09 Lending markets.

19:45:10 Unfortunately, that day has passed.

19:45:12 My client has agreed to do whatever it takes, he just

19:45:17 wants to keep what he's had and what with has been on

19:45:20 this property since the 1920s.

19:45:22 If it takes additional meetings, I was apprised when I

19:45:27 saw this e-mail because no one called my office.

19:45:30 We sent those letters out in early April.

19:45:32 And I just said, whoever wants to discuss this project,

19:45:36 meet with our clients, talk about what's happening.

19:45:38 What our thoughts are, our plans.




19:45:40 Call us.

19:45:41 Never heard a thing until I saw this e-mail.

19:45:44 It's ironic on the e-mail it talks about a comparison

19:45:47 between a used car lot, car sales I think it's

19:45:50 referenced, and a planned development high rise tower.

19:45:54 Well, I respectfully disagree, Council.

19:45:59 The true challenge that you're facing tonight is not

19:46:04 that.

19:46:05 That's done.

19:46:05 There is no high rise.

19:46:06 The question is, is it an ongoing business with

19:46:12 employees in an area of commerce that's contributing to

19:46:15 the tax base, that's productive, that puts people to

19:46:19 work in a tough economy, or is vacated structure,

19:46:24 padlocked gates, weeds growing through the sidewalks.

19:46:28 No one's going to go out there and pressure wash it

19:46:31 like my client.

19:46:32 That's the challenge.

19:46:33 That's the comparison.

19:46:33 That's the tradeoff.

19:46:35 And I submit to you, the last thing Channelside

19:46:37 district need is another vacant blighted structure




19:46:40 closed down business.

19:46:42 We appreciate your time.

19:46:43 Be happy to answer any questions.

19:46:44 Can I have Scott speak also.

19:46:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let him finish the presentation.

19:46:53 Then take questions.

19:46:54 How much time they have left?

19:46:58 >> Approximately two and a half minutes.

19:47:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Two and a half minutes.

19:47:02 >> Scott Calderazzo, 104 east Fowler.

19:47:06 My father bought that building 27 years ago.

19:47:08 He had a partner, they ran a successful business out of

19:47:10 there for years.

19:47:11 When they came in, to do Channelside, he agreed.

19:47:14 We were very happy about it.

19:47:16 We moved all our stuff so they could take down the

19:47:18 bridge from Kennedy.

19:47:19 We worked any way we could.

19:47:21 Then finally, we got somebody that wanted to bite.

19:47:26 We had a Dr. of course that fell through.

19:47:28 We had to decide how to keep our building, how to pay

19:47:31 our taxes, how to maintain it.




19:47:33 We tried to go with the least effected tenant.

19:47:38 We thought we had CD-3.

19:47:40 We interpreted that as once the site plan is pulled,

19:47:43 then it changed zoning.

19:47:45 We did not know that at the time.

19:47:46 But we still tried to go with the least effective

19:47:49 tenant.

19:47:50 Instead of going with automotive repair, we went this,

19:47:53 because it wasn't customers coming out.

19:47:55 Wasn't a lot of noise.

19:47:56 They weren't out there making a mess.

19:47:57 Jim called us, they were unhappy.

19:48:00 I went over there.

19:48:01 I promised them within a week I would have screening

19:48:04 up.

19:48:04 About four days later I had that done.

19:48:06 Like Michael Horner said, we have the cleaned up, done

19:48:09 everything we possibly can to keep them happy.

19:48:11 We'll do anything in the future.

19:48:13 We're just trying to keep paying our taxes and keep our

19:48:16 building going.

19:48:16 It's not going to look good as an empty building.




19:48:19 When my father bought it, they had it remodeled and

19:48:22 moved the vagrants out.

19:48:24 He was there when everybody else was leaving.

19:48:26 We didn't just coming running in two years ago and try

19:48:30 to make a bunch of money and buy a gold mine.

19:48:32 We were there.

19:48:33 We were very happy to see it go up.

19:48:35 Hopefully, we can get our rezoning back.

19:48:38 I believe it goes back in two years anyway, is my

19:48:41 understanding.

19:48:42 It would be a lot easier to survive the next two years

19:48:45 if we had income coming in.

19:48:47 We'll do whatever it takes to make everybody happy.

19:48:49 Thank you.

19:48:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

19:48:52 Councilmember Dingfelder?

19:48:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Real quick.

19:48:56 This is all a little confusing, if they have existing

19:49:05 structure there, you know, that sort of thing, can they

19:49:10 not operate it without going back to the CD-1?

19:49:14 >> Julie coal, two issues is, one is the actual

19:49:18 structure, which I think Abbye has is a legal




19:49:21 nonconforming structure.

19:49:23 So that structure can remain in that location until

19:49:26 it's destroyed 75%.

19:49:28 The use question.

19:49:29 I don't know that anybody's ever answer lysed what the

19:49:32 existing use was prior to the zoning versus what would

19:49:36 then be considered legal nonconforming use once you

19:49:39 change the zoning classification.

19:49:40 When that zoning classification changed, any use on

19:49:43 that property that had been in existence would retain a

19:49:45 legal nonconforming status.

19:49:46 But I don't know what that use was and what that legal

19:49:51 nonconformity then would remain.

19:49:53 So I can't answer what it is, but they should have the

19:49:57 right to at least have asked that question, what that

19:50:01 legal nonconformity is.

19:50:03 There may be reasons they don't want to retain it as a

19:50:06 legal nonconformity and the only way to make it

19:50:09 conforming would be to change the zoning

19:50:10 classification.

19:50:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.

19:50:13 Mr. Horner?




19:50:16 >> Yes, sir?

19:50:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So, that leads to the next question.

19:50:21 Which is, you've provided a lot of what, but I'm

19:50:25 curious of why?

19:50:27 Is it a function of taxes?

19:50:28 Do you pay more taxes on a CD-3?

19:50:31 Than a CD-1?

19:50:33 Might be a possibility.

19:50:35 I don't know.

19:50:35 Or what is the underlying issue?

19:50:39 I don't get any indication from zoning that they have

19:50:42 been approached about this use, the use issue.

19:50:45 Whether or not the use was potentially grandfathered

19:50:48 in.

19:50:49 So the bottom line is, why?

19:50:52 The other question is, and this is more for Linda and

19:50:55 Gwen, is it boutique?

19:50:58 Or boutique?

19:51:01 [ Laughter ]

19:51:01 Just kidding.

19:51:03 Mike and I are old friends and I can tease him.

19:51:10 >> You know, the use has been ongoing for the last




19:51:14 year.

19:51:15 The problem, Mr. Dingfelder, is that at the time, the

19:51:19 CD-3 was actually approved, July 9th of 2007.

19:51:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I remember.

19:51:24 I was here.

19:51:25 >> It was an aluminum manufacturing business.

19:51:28 Much more intense than the current operation.

19:51:30 So, in retrospect, had we known the market would have

19:51:39 collapsed, my client would have said keep the aluminum

19:51:42 manufacturing business in place for the next two and a

19:51:45 half, three years.

19:51:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But I'm not saying --

19:51:49 >> So we have lost that.

19:51:51 >> But my question, have you specifically asked zoning

19:51:54 for an opinion on, on this issue?

19:51:59 Our legal staff just indicated there is some sort of

19:52:03 citation going on.

19:52:05 >> Currently under cry station for open storing in site

19:52:09 plan planned development high rise.

19:52:11 We sat down with Cathy Coyle and said, Cathy, war our

19:52:15 options?

19:52:15 We have been cited.




19:52:16 We have been cited because the nonconforming use,

19:52:20 became legal nonconforming on July 9, 2007, has vacated

19:52:25 the premises some years ago.

19:52:26 My client assumed that until a CO is issued on the new

19:52:31 permit, it wasn't formally rezoned to CD-3.

19:52:34 They thought they were still zoned CD 1.

19:52:37 Anyone, it's an illegal use.

19:52:39 It's been cited.

19:52:40 What does my client want to do?

19:52:42 Keep the tenants there and even a tenant that's less

19:52:45 impacting than was there in July of 2007.

19:52:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So, Abbye, so bottom line, they have

19:52:53 had this conversation with miss Coyle, you are familiar

19:52:55 with, you're aware of that?

19:52:57 >> I am not familiar of the conversation.

19:52:59 I'm sorry.

19:53:00 We counsel so many people.

19:53:02 But I do follow the complete logic of what Mr. Horner

19:53:05 is presenting.

19:53:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So today's opinion, tonight's

19:53:08 opinion the fact that that greater use, the more

19:53:11 intensive use of whatever it was, aluminum




19:53:14 manufacturing, would not allow this less intensive use?

19:53:18 Or is it the gap in time?

19:53:19 What is it?

19:53:20 >> I believe it's a combination of those two things

19:53:23 right there.

19:53:23 In fact, listening to the chronology, so there was

19:53:27 aluminum manufacturing going on there, which would have

19:53:29 been a manufacturing use, which was allowed under the

19:53:32 CD-1.

19:53:33 This must have been a lapse of use, which on

19:53:36 non-conforming is typically 180 days.

19:53:39 At that point that use would have been lost.

19:53:41 And then to reestablish a use, you could have

19:53:44 reestablished any of the use that is were allowed under

19:53:46 the CD-3 and we would have done a substantial change.

19:53:50 And those uses would have been allowed.

19:53:52 When they went to establish this new use, which was --

19:53:56 there was no continue can United Nations of use of the

19:53:58 aluminum, that is in fact when that would have been

19:54:00 lost.

19:54:01 So now in order to legally establish a use on there of

19:54:05 that type, it does need to go back to the CD-1.




19:54:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me follow, Miss Feeley, before you

19:54:12 comment.

19:54:14 Mr. Horner said in two years, it revert automatically

19:54:17 back to the?

19:54:20 >> No, no.

19:54:21 On a CD-3, you get -- on any site plan controlled

19:54:25 district, you get five years to substantially construct

19:54:27 that under the site plan that you have.

19:54:29 If you do not, then, you still get the rights and

19:54:34 entitlements that are associated with that site plan

19:54:36 zoning, the thing is that you then have to meet the

19:54:39 code provisions are in place at the time you're

19:54:42 permitting.

19:54:42 So, PDs do not revert.

19:54:45 Site plan districts do not revert.

19:54:47 They do not expire.

19:54:48 They continue.

19:54:49 The waivers and conditions you've got on there may not

19:54:53 be applicable at the time you finally permit it, which

19:54:56 may in fact cause to you have to rezone again.

19:54:59 To get those waivers again.

19:55:00 But it does not -- it does not expire.




19:55:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Only other thing I wanted to add,

19:55:08 Mr. Horner -- only thing I wanted to add, just for the

19:55:11 record, is we got -- in my book, I'm showing five

19:55:14 e-mails, they're all the same.

19:55:16 E-mail, but it's five different people who expressed

19:55:20 concern.

19:55:20 I don't know where they lived exactly, but obviously

19:55:24 they lived in the channel side.

19:55:25 >> I agree.

19:55:26 If I can make one clarification comment.

19:55:29 In speaking with my client, this goose right to

19:55:32 Mr. Dingfelder's question, the hiatus that Abbye

19:55:38 referenced, which where we lost that legal

19:55:40 nonconforming status, occurred when the Slade stepped

19:55:43 in and optioned my client's property.

19:55:46 For during their interim construction, all their

19:55:49 furnishings, all the carpeting samples, all the tile

19:55:51 samples, my client said sure, whatever we can do to

19:55:55 help you guys out, lease it to you for a little bit.

19:55:57 Then the legal nonconforming status was interrupted.

19:56:02 Now to try to reinstate the uses there now triggered

19:56:05 the zoning violation.




19:56:06 The only option we have is rezone back to the CD-1.

19:56:10 Not an easy position.

19:56:11 I think what Scott said is quite helpful and on point.

19:56:15 His parents, family did not fly in to make a quick

19:56:18 killing in the Tampa market and run back out.

19:56:20 They have been here for the long haul.

19:56:22 And this was their time in 2007.

19:56:25 2009, to make what they think reaped those benefits.

19:56:30 And unfortunately just didn't work out.

19:56:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

19:56:32 Any other question by Council?

19:56:35 Anyone from the public wish to address Council?

19:56:37 All right.

19:56:38 A lot of hands.

19:56:39 Come on down.

19:56:44 Before you start, let me ask a question.

19:56:49 How many people in opposition?

19:56:50 Okay.

19:56:52 Who are in support?

19:56:55 Anybody here in support?

19:56:56 So everybody here is in opposition.

19:57:01 >> I have not been sworn in and I believe some of the




19:57:02 --

19:57:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else not been sworn in?

19:57:05 Stand and be sworn at this time.

19:57:06 Stand and be sworn.

19:57:08 Raise your right hand.

19:57:11 [Oath administered by Clerk]

19:57:17 >> Bob McDonaugh, City of Tampa, CRA manager for the

19:57:20 Channel District.

19:57:21 A couple corrections to some of the statements

19:57:23 Mr. Horner made.

19:57:25 I had received a number of complaints from people in

19:57:26 the neighborhood.

19:57:27 And went to the tax records to find out who the owners

19:57:30 were.

19:57:30 I spoke with Mr. Calderazzo and told him it was my

19:57:34 understanding this is a phone corporal -- nonconforming

19:57:37 use, outside storage.

19:57:38 Neighbors were not happy and I suggested that, did I

19:57:41 not think it was going to be cure, that perhaps it

19:57:44 would satisfy some of the folks if he put up the

19:57:46 screen.

19:57:46 And did he comply with that.




19:57:48 I'm here on behalf of the Channel District CRA advisory

19:57:53 board.

19:57:54 Asked me to appear tonight.

19:57:55 Based on their opinion and the folks that have come to

19:57:59 speak with them and corresponds they have had and phone

19:58:01 calls that the people in the Channel District are

19:58:04 strongly opposed to this.

19:58:05 They feel it's a step back in the improvements they

19:58:08 made.

19:58:08 I think you're aware of the fact, we spent a

19:58:11 considerable amount of money in the last few years

19:58:13 improving the neighborhood.

19:58:14 Getting ready to do improvements to Kennedy Boulevard.

19:58:17 That's with the FDOT right now to make it more

19:58:21 pedestrian friendly roadway, little more attractive.

19:58:24 And many of the folks that have come up to me, because

19:58:27 I'm kind of the suppose person from the neighborhood,

19:58:29 that they feel this is not a positive step for their

19:58:33 neighborhood and they would like Council to consider

19:58:35 that.

19:58:35 Thank you.

19:58:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.




19:58:37 Next speaker?

19:58:40 >> Hello, councilmen.

19:58:42 My name is Matthew Midyett.

19:58:45 My brothers and I own the 30,000-foot powerhouse gym

19:58:49 across the street.

19:58:50 I'd like to set the record straight, the Channelside

19:58:53 district is coming back.

19:58:54 And largely in part of our new facility there, I don't

19:58:57 know where Mr. Horner was getting his information.

19:58:59 But, our building is 99% occupied.

19:59:03 Double occupied, ever since we opened up, property

19:59:06 values have stabilized.

19:59:07 We have a dry cleaner in there now.

19:59:09 We have a pour house -- they pour beer and wine.

19:59:14 They have another place over at Channelside over on the

19:59:17 pier over there.

19:59:18 We have Sweetbay that's very, very interested in

19:59:20 opening up in there.

19:59:21 We have a 5,000 sushi and bar and grill opening up

19:59:26 right next to us.

19:59:27 Everyone said the same thing when we came from

19:59:29 California.




19:59:30 We sold our business over there.

19:59:32 We had five powerhouse gyms.

19:59:33 We came over here to Tampa.

19:59:35 Moved our families over here and we were set on opening

19:59:38 something up in downtown.

19:59:39 We investigated, we looked and we found the perfect

19:59:43 building.

19:59:43 Grand Central.

19:59:44 We investigated it.

19:59:46 We found out there's 46,000 car count there.

19:59:49 We have the main artery going into Kennedy and

19:59:52 everything.

19:59:53 I'll be quick.

19:59:54 We asked about the lot across the street.

19:59:57 And the first thing that we were told was that it was

20:00:00 going to be a planned development.

20:00:01 Perfect.

20:00:02 Great.

20:00:02 More residential.

20:00:03 The place is renting out their units now.

20:00:07 All the units that were down there that didn't sell,

20:00:10 they're being rented out now.




20:00:11 We started off with 300 members.

20:00:13 We have almost 4,000 member.

20:00:15 So I'd ask him, why don't you open up a coffee shop,

20:00:18 sock like that on that corner, and the take advantage

20:00:20 of those 4,000 members.

20:00:22 Sweetbay wants to do it.

20:00:23 All the other businesses that are popping up.

20:00:26 They want that.

20:00:27 They want to capture shows people training there.

20:00:29 Everyone thought we were crazy, and I'm tired of

20:00:32 hearing all the doom and gloom about the Channel

20:00:34 District.

20:00:35 The Channel District is coming back.

20:00:37 We're a part of that and all our members love the club.

20:00:40 You got to understand they bought into that walking to

20:00:42 the, walking to the restaurant.

20:00:44 Walking to the museum.

20:00:45 Walking to the gym.

20:00:46 That's that urban lifestyle.

20:00:47 Now they have to wait for flatbed trucks to go in and

20:00:51 out.

20:00:51 They have to wait for all these cars to be in and out




20:00:54 of there.

20:00:55 That not only does it interrupt them, but you know,

20:00:58 there's been more accidents on that corner.

20:01:00 I know one for a fact that caused three cars from a

20:01:04 gentleman pulling out of their facility, and it caused

20:01:07 three car pileup right there.

20:01:08 I just, I understand these guys have been great and

20:01:11 cordial.

20:01:12 But you know what, that's not way bought into.

20:01:14 I put $2 million into my facility.

20:01:16 And guess what, the it's paying off.

20:01:18 I don't want to go back.

20:01:19 I want to see that area go forward and develop even

20:01:22 farther.

20:01:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.

20:01:24 Next speaker?

20:01:27 >> Good evening.

20:01:28 My name is Tony Foley, I live at 1238 East Kennedy

20:01:32 Boulevard.

20:01:34 We are very proud of our area.

20:01:36 We're glad of many structures that's been built there.

20:01:39 We were told that it would be a nice area and that's




20:01:42 the reason we bought into the area.

20:01:43 We paid a lot of money.

20:01:45 What we see now in this project that's going up is a

20:01:48 complete eyesore aesthetically.

20:01:51 There has been accidents, as this gentleman alluded to.

20:01:54 The fencing that they have where they put the blue

20:01:58 canvas around seven adds more to the eyesore.

20:02:02 If you're coming off Meridian going into Kennedy, you

20:02:05 have to wait for the flatbed trucks to come in so it's

20:02:07 a problem for us.

20:02:08 And it doesn't go along with what we bought into when

20:02:11 we paid so much money to live there.

20:02:13 Thank you.

20:02:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker?

20:02:18 >> Good evening.

20:02:18 My name is Tray Huffman, 1211 East Cumberland.

20:02:22 I live at the Towers of Channelside, so I'm at the

20:02:25 other end.

20:02:26 This is affecting everybody in Channelside, not just

20:02:29 the people close to that property.

20:02:30 And also a member of powerhouse gym.

20:02:33 I take the walk with down Meridian and it's true, you




20:02:36 have to go around the flatbed trucks.

20:02:39 It's not true there's no oil stains, because there are.

20:02:41 I don't know how much power washing they could do.

20:02:44 They'd have to do it every single day for to it get

20:02:47 clean.

20:02:47 But they've ruined the sidewalk, the business is an

20:02:50 eyesore.

20:02:50 It's just -- there's nothing positive about rezoning

20:02:54 this back and letting this business operate.

20:02:56 We need to stay where it is and let the Channelside

20:02:59 district go forward and do what it was designed to do

20:03:02 now.

20:03:03 So I'm definitely opposed to this.

20:03:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker?

20:03:08 >> Good evening, Council.

20:03:09 My name is Glen Counts.

20:03:12 I am a resident of Ventana, it's about a stone throw

20:03:15 away from this property.

20:03:17 I also am the president of the condominium association.

20:03:21 We have about at this point 85% occupancy of unit

20:03:25 owners, so we're doing very well.

20:03:27 We have seen a big change in that community in terms of




20:03:30 the number of people and the quality of people moving

20:03:32 into the area.

20:03:33 We want to continue to see that change.

20:03:35 It really is an eyesore for us.

20:03:37 It's like our backyard.

20:03:39 It would be Akin to having an open car lot of old cars

20:03:44 in the middle of Tampa, Tampa Palms.

20:03:46 It's the same scenario.

20:03:48 It's our community.

20:03:48 It's our home.

20:03:49 Where we take our walks.

20:03:51 It's where we go and have our coffee.

20:03:53 It's where we go to the gym to work out.

20:03:55 This is our place of residents.

20:03:57 It's our backyard.

20:03:59 So, we are strongly, strongly, and I can't say that

20:04:02 enough, opposed to this property.

20:04:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.

20:04:07 Thank you very much.

20:04:12 >> My name is Tom Haddock.

20:04:14 I'm also an owner at towers of Channelside.

20:04:18 And when I bought at towers of Channelside, we looked




20:04:22 the area over and were convinced that there would be

20:04:28 positive development through this entire area.

20:04:30 We walked the area.

20:04:32 We drove around.

20:04:33 This is going backwards.

20:04:34 And I know that an awful lot of my neighbors are very

20:04:38 unhappy about this, we're not as close as the Slade or

20:04:43 Ventura, but we're impacted.

20:04:46 And we really strongly oppose this action.

20:04:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.

20:04:51 Okay, anyone else?

20:04:52 Okay.

20:04:53 Petitioner?

20:04:59 >> Thank you Mr. Chairman.

20:05:01 I'll be brief.

20:05:01 Mike horner again.

20:05:02 I think Julia said it best.

20:05:05 We are in between a proverbial rock and a hard place.

20:05:09 Who came first?

20:05:10 I think my clients were first.

20:05:12 And anyone buying a tower absolutely, with all that

20:05:16 CD-1, the existing uses and the warehouses and




20:05:20 districts, I would have asked a lot of questions before

20:05:23 sinking those kind of substantial dollars.

20:05:25 Not everyone's a zoning consultant, but a quick phone

20:05:28 call to the city hopefully would have determined that

20:05:30 this use can stay as a legal nonconforming use.

20:05:34 However, it's under zoning violation.

20:05:37 This use might be sun-setted within a few months.

20:05:41 Or a new CBD application under, or new CD-3 application

20:05:46 as substantial change for the existing use, if the CD-3

20:05:50 allowed flexible, we wouldn't be in this dilemma.

20:05:53 It does not.

20:05:54 Now, we have tried to work best with the neighborhood.

20:06:00 My wife and I bought a high rise condominium in

20:06:03 downtown St. Petersburg.

20:06:04 And I looked out the window and I saw parking lot and

20:06:08 some storage vehicles.

20:06:09 Of course the Realtor said don't worry, the it's the

20:06:11 PD, new tower, going to be a beautiful tower.

20:06:14 Pulled the plans, went to the city and realized they

20:06:17 have a legal nonconforming status.

20:06:20 Beautiful place, we loved it.

20:06:22 We bought it.




20:06:22 I feel for the neighbors.

20:06:24 I wish we could make this go away and go back to where

20:06:27 it was before the entire high rise plans.

20:06:29 Think of the resources, the money, the final, the

20:06:32 investment.

20:06:33 Everybody was looking for the same gold.

20:06:36 The irony is by my client seeking the very same thing

20:06:39 that these people wanted, he moved himself out of that

20:06:43 arena to allow his flexibility.

20:06:46 I can assure you, had my clients known that by seeking

20:06:49 that rezoning, and not having a guarantee this high

20:06:52 rise would be built, he would have never agreed to it.

20:06:56 In retrospect, they should have added a condition that

20:06:59 existing uses shall be permitted to remain.

20:07:03 We do that in the county.

20:07:04 I think the city would have allowed that as well.

20:07:06 Prior to second reading, it wasn't done.

20:07:09 He just wants to keep his existing tenant.

20:07:12 If we have to agree to continuance, to work with staff

20:07:14 and legal, we are amenable to that.

20:07:16 We have been working with Mr. Mueller and code

20:07:19 violation status, will be stayed.




20:07:22 Happy to meet with the neighbors.

20:07:23 We're at your discretion.

20:07:27 Tell us what you would like us to do.

20:07:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilmember Saul-Sena, then

20:07:32 Dingfelder.

20:07:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.

20:07:33 Years ago, I was a person who named the Channel

20:07:35 District, worked with the city staff to create a plan

20:07:38 for it.

20:07:39 And the original idea was that it was supposed to be a

20:07:43 combination area.

20:07:44 Of residential, entertainment, and port-related uses.

20:07:48 But things evolved.

20:07:50 And it is now primarily a residential area, with great

20:07:54 ancillary office, business and entertainment uses.

20:07:57 And the port uses are primarily focused on the port

20:08:00 area.

20:08:01 And I feel like our responsibility as Councilmembers is

20:08:07 to support the plan that we have adopted.

20:08:10 We have adopted the Channel District plan.

20:08:11 And to support the businesses and individuals who have

20:08:16 invested in this area.




20:08:17 And what's being asked of us today is not, it's not

20:08:22 compatible.

20:08:23 It's just flat out not compatible.

20:08:25 And based on that I'll make a motion when we close the

20:08:28 public hearing.

20:08:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, councilmember Dingfelder?

20:08:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, in an ideal world, they would

20:08:39 have been thrilled to have this deal consummated, this

20:08:42 high rise built.

20:08:43 We'd all be happy.

20:08:45 And we'd have a lot more tax dollars coming in with all

20:08:49 those, you know, a hundred new apartments there.

20:08:52 Condos, whatever.

20:08:53 But, it's not an ideal world.

20:08:55 So, the reality is, is when, you know, if we just flat

20:09:01 out deny this and tell these folks no, you know, build

20:09:08 this high rise, well, that's not realistic.

20:09:10 That's not going to happen in this market, probably at

20:09:14 least, optimistically, the next five years.

20:09:17 Then the question, okay, we tell them no.

20:09:19 Then they don't have any use.

20:09:20 Then as they describe, the place might get foreclosed.




20:09:25 They might have to walk away from it.

20:09:27 It they can't rent it.

20:09:28 They can't do anything.

20:09:29 And it just becomes a place for vagrants and everything

20:09:36 else.

20:09:37 So I don't think we have accomplished anything by doing

20:09:39 that.

20:09:39 So I like Mr. Horner's idea about a continuance.

20:09:42 A, he can have some discussions with the community,

20:09:45 because now he's aware that there's opposition.

20:09:48 B, he can explore options with our zoning staff.

20:09:52 In regard to the possibility of allowing a very limited

20:09:57 use perhaps.

20:09:58 Amending the CD-3 to allow extremely limited use with a

20:10:02 lot of conditions that maybe he can work out the

20:10:04 conditions with the neighborhood.

20:10:05 But I think just saying no, and I'm speaking to the

20:10:10 neighborhood folks who have come down, we appreciate

20:10:12 you coming down.

20:10:13 But I think just saying you no is not really

20:10:15 accomplishing what you want either.

20:10:17 As my mother would say, sort of biting off your nose to




20:10:21 spite your face.

20:10:22 I never understood what that meant.

20:10:23 But I think it's applicable here.

20:10:25 So, with Mr. Horner's suggestion, I would suggest -- it

20:10:32 doesn't look like you're in any huge hurry because your

20:10:37 enforcement action is abated while this is pending.

20:10:40 So I would suggest about a 60-day break on this to give

20:10:42 everybody a chance to talk and to work with staff.

20:10:46 And come back with a middle ground.

20:10:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilmember Miranda?

20:10:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This whole area has really changed.

20:10:56 Taken time.

20:10:56 I mean, even those good individuals that, that bought

20:11:00 in to the Channelside district in various different

20:11:04 complexes, I can understand the gentleman from

20:11:08 California and his $2 million investment.

20:11:11 But some of these penthouses may be $2 million.

20:11:15 That area there used to be no cruise ships.

20:11:19 Nor aquarium.

20:11:22 No -- excuse me, but St. Pete Times Forum.

20:11:27 Used to be the lightning center.

20:11:29 Used to be an old Coca-Cola both willing plant.




20:11:35 They -- there used to be citrus nitrate in the corner

20:11:40 where the aquarium is at.

20:11:42 They had banana boats, many of them coming in.

20:11:45 And you know what comes with bananas.

20:11:48 A lot of rodents.

20:11:50 So, we used to call that when I was growing up in that

20:11:53 area, la laga, which means the end of the world in nice

20:12:00 words.

20:12:00 [ Laughter ]

20:12:01 I don't want to go specifically good words.

20:12:03 You got the message.

20:12:05 And look what it's at now.

20:12:08 You know, this -- you think you folks are between a

20:12:15 rock and a hard place.

20:12:17 Try these six shoes, pair of shoes.

20:12:20 We're in a rock and a hard place.

20:12:22 I understand what's been said.

20:12:25 I don't know what else can go into C 3, is it?

20:12:31 CD-3, other than a high rise.

20:12:33 I don't know what legitimizes that.

20:12:36 I don't know what type of other -- are you all

20:12:42 discussing C 3?




20:12:44 I don't know what -- I need help in other words to try

20:12:47 to facilitate both sides.

20:12:49 Because I understand -- if I had made an investment

20:12:54 there, based on the future, and I'm not going to

20:12:58 compare to the blowout valve that was never put in the

20:13:02 Gulf for half a million dollars.

20:13:04 That's not the case.

20:13:05 But, we have to protect what we have.

20:13:07 We made this commitment as a city and the Calderazzo

20:13:18 family made a commitment to keep their business there

20:13:22 until this came along.

20:13:24 And I was here in July of 2007, I remember the many

20:13:28 discussions we had versus the diagram and the movement

20:13:31 of the building and the siting and so forth, and the

20:13:36 type of door front and the type of this and the bottom

20:13:39 floor and all that, to have these same aesthetic values

20:13:43 that the others had.

20:13:44 This is like playing the stock market.

20:13:46 Sometimes you buy high and have to sell low.

20:13:53 And very few times you buy low and sell high.

20:13:56 If you play the stock market now, you're better gambler

20:14:02 than I am.




20:14:03 But what goes into C-3 other than high rise?

20:14:12 >>JULIA COLE: CD-3 is a site plan control, like PD.

20:14:16 So whatever is on that site plan, with whatever uses

20:14:19 are within that site plan and how that site plan is put

20:14:21 forward, that descends on this property and that is the

20:14:24 reasoning classification.

20:14:25 So if it's not in there, you're going to have to add it

20:14:29 in there.

20:14:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I was afraid you were going to say

20:14:33 that.

20:14:33 But I had to ask.

20:14:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Because there was retail on the

20:14:36 bottom floor, couldn't that be allowed.

20:14:40 >> First of all, there's no more CD-3.

20:14:42 There's only CD-1 and CD-2.

20:14:45 It's very much like CBD-1 and CBD-2.

20:14:50 The uses permitted are the same.

20:14:52 But in the CD-1, just like in CBD-1, there's intensity

20:14:56 and height regulations.

20:14:58 Once you trigger above those, you have to go to site

20:15:01 planned control district, which is CD-2.

20:15:03 But if you go to the use tables, the uses you could




20:15:06 come back and ask for in site plan control district are

20:15:09 the same uses you could ask for CD-1.

20:15:15 So like in CBD central business district, you can't go

20:15:19 above 120 feet.

20:15:21 But you can have all the same uses that you could when

20:15:25 you go above 120 feet if you want to go out 120, up to

20:15:30 come in with CBD-2, which is site planned control.

20:15:34 Same thing in the channel district.

20:15:35 When you look down the use table for CD-1 and CD-2 and

20:15:39 you see bar and lounges, catering shop, cigar factory

20:15:46 is an allowable use in both CD-1 and CD-2.

20:15:50 Hazardous materials is a special use.

20:15:53 But a heliport is in CD-1 and CD-2.

20:15:56 A kennel is in CD-1.

20:15:58 A marina.

20:15:59 All of the uses are the same.

20:16:01 It's just how those uses are dimensionally and

20:16:04 regulated.

20:16:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You know, the Trop word was used.

20:16:09 He doesn't look too good on television either.

20:16:13 When that property was -- he doesn't.

20:16:15 I mean, he looks like an arrow hit him from the




20:16:18 backside.

20:16:19 But you look at that property at the trump plaza that

20:16:22 was there by the bridge, that's another travesty that

20:16:26 people invested money.

20:16:28 Good hard earned money.

20:16:30 Net money.

20:16:31 And things didn't work out.

20:16:34 >> At this juncture, giving what Abbye has said, given

20:16:37 the fact there's a citation on the property, potential

20:16:40 legal nonconforming use that could be legal conforming,

20:16:42 I'm going to recommend from the legal department's

20:16:45 perspective that we continue this.

20:16:47 If 60 days is too long.

20:16:49 We can do 30 days to sit down and figure out.

20:16:52 I don't want us to do anything that takes away legal

20:16:55 use or potentially puts anybody in jeopardy legally.

20:16:59 My recommendation is we go ahead and have this

20:17:01 continued, unless the petition ser going to object to

20:17:03 that.

20:17:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Looking for a second.

20:17:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We have to take the attorney's word.

20:17:13 I think I understand what Miss Saul-Sena is trying to




20:17:15 do.

20:17:16 Understand what you were trying to do.

20:17:17 I was trying to find out where are we in this?

20:17:20 There's two sides to this.

20:17:22 And I understand one side you -- this doesn't mean that

20:17:27 I am here longer, I have the best right.

20:17:29 No, it doesn't mean that.

20:17:30 Certainly you're not going to do something in the

20:17:32 Channelside or the waterfront now and open up a used

20:17:36 car lot.

20:17:37 Downtown Franklin Street, that's not going to be

20:17:39 allowed.

20:17:40 What I'm trying to get, that's why I asked that

20:17:42 question, where are we, where are we going?

20:17:44 I got the answer now to hold.

20:17:46 So I yield the floor.

20:17:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I guess the issue becomes though

20:17:49 at no interest, the legal department is recommending to

20:17:52 us a continuance.

20:17:53 In other words, Council, I understand what

20:17:58 councilmember Saul-Sena is saying, but legally saying

20:18:00 to us, before you do anything, we need to do further




20:18:03 analysis and research and that sort of thing to keep,

20:18:06 to protect the city from any legal ramifications.

20:18:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I will second Mr. Dingfelder's

20:18:15 motion for continuance for 30 days.

20:18:17 But I have a really critical question.

20:18:19 When we were, when I was working on the intent of the

20:18:23 Channel District, one of the basic premise says was it

20:18:27 was supposed to be a pedestrian oriented area.

20:18:30 That's one of the reasons why we put in the wide trail

20:18:33 on Meridian.

20:18:34 We wanted to encourage people to walk to bike ride to

20:18:37 skate.

20:18:37 And there's nothing like a large flatbed to discourage

20:18:41 pedestrian activity.

20:18:41 So, if we are giving the property owner the courtesy of

20:18:46 30 days to work on this, I think that they need to be

20:18:50 really conscientious about not thwarting the, being,

20:18:57 trying to make their truck activity as unintrusive as

20:19:03 possible.

20:19:03 If they want to do stuff, do it on their property.

20:19:06 But not over the sidewalk where it's making the

20:19:08 neighbors endangered and unhappy.




20:19:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We need to hear from Mr. Horner, you

20:19:17 represent the petitioner.

20:19:18 The motion was 60 --

20:19:21 >> 30 is fine.

20:19:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Saying 30 from Councilmember Saul-Sena.

20:19:24 Petitioner, are you amenable for the 30 day

20:19:27 continuance?

20:19:28 >> Mr. Chairman, again, Michael Horner for the record.

20:19:31 I think 60 days would be helpful because we have a lot

20:19:33 of issues to get on the table.

20:19:35 A lot of design issue, land use matrix review,

20:19:39 nonconforming use timeline.

20:19:41 Unless there's opposition to an of 60 day, I'd like to

20:19:43 do it once and do it the right way.

20:19:45 Ding.

20:19:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: --

20:19:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Use because I know it is driving the

20:19:55 neighbors crazy and he's buying time.

20:19:59 >> If you want 30, we'll try 30.

20:20:02 >> In all fairness, I think Mr. Horner is trying to

20:20:05 accommodate my schedule.

20:20:06 It's hard for me -- this is a significant legal issue.




20:20:09 I said I could do it in 30 days.

20:20:11 I think Mr. Horner was trying to accommodate me by

20:20:14 giving me 60 days to work through these issues and get

20:20:17 them addressed.

20:20:18 If 30 days is more practical, I'll make time and get it

20:20:21 dealt with.

20:20:22 >> Just to check your calendar, you have less than 30

20:20:25 days till your next evening meeting.

20:20:28 It is the 17th of June.

20:20:29 Is the evening meeting.

20:20:31 And then the next evening meeting is July 22nd.

20:20:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: July 22nd.

20:20:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's my motion.

20:20:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Well, I hope there's an opportunity

20:20:48 for the petitioner to work hard on this prior to that.

20:20:53 And to communicate with the neighborhood about what.

20:20:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I believe Mr. Horner, I think that you

20:20:59 did say you're going to work with the neighborhood,

20:21:01 with the residents to discuss the matter and also leave

20:21:04 any other concerns relative to, I guess flat beds and

20:21:09 blocking Kennedy and all of that.

20:21:11 >> Yes, sir.




20:21:12 They have our contact information.

20:21:13 Be happy to set up a meeting.

20:21:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Very good.

20:21:16 That's a motion.

20:21:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I seconded it.

20:21:18 But I really feel like that there's a world of

20:21:24 opportunities between a very high high-rise and a used

20:21:29 car storage place.

20:21:31 I mean, there could be retail uses.

20:21:33 There -- it doesn't have to be residential.

20:21:35 There could be an office built.

20:21:37 There could be many, many things.

20:21:38 And it's obvious to me that the petitioner obviously

20:21:42 wants to keep what he's got.

20:21:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, that's why our staff has to go

20:21:48 back, legal has to go back and look at all the

20:21:51 ramifications based on the testimony of Mrs. Abbye

20:21:53 Feeley.

20:21:55 We'll let them work all that detail out.

20:21:57 There's a motion and second.

20:21:58 All in favor signify by saying aye.

20:22:00 Opposes?




20:22:02 And that comes back July the 22nd.

20:22:04 6:00 p.m.

20:22:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. McDonaugh.

20:22:53 >> Abbye Feeley, Land Development Coordination.

20:22:56 Next case on your agenda this evening is Z 10-other,

20:22:59 located at 3224 Henderson Boulevard.

20:23:02 The applicant is reindeer dentistry.

20:23:04 The request before you is from an RO 1 residential

20:23:08 office, which is office business professional.

20:23:11 PD planned development for office, medical and business

20:23:14 professional.

20:23:20 >> Good evening, Council once again.

20:23:25 Tony Garcia, Planning Commission staff.

20:23:27 I have been sworn.

20:23:28 Here's that map again.

20:23:32 So we are in the central district once again.

20:23:35 Nice opportunity for growth.

20:23:39 Site is located on in this corner down over here.

20:23:45 Just right inside the central district.

20:23:47 Show you the aerial over here.

20:23:52 It's right off of Henderson Boulevard, just off Kennedy

20:23:56 Boulevard.




20:23:57 This side of course I'm sure some of you are familiar,

20:24:02 most of you are familiar with it.

20:24:03 It did come to you in a previous rezoning for an office

20:24:08 use.

20:24:08 I believe the square footage was a little bit more than

20:24:11 this.

20:24:11 I believe the parking was a little bit more than what

20:24:14 they're asking for here.

20:24:15 I also believe that the structure was a little bit

20:24:18 larger than the structure they're proposing here.

20:24:21 One of the big sticking points as I recall was parking.

20:24:24 I don't believe -- I don't recall, but eighth I'll let

20:24:29 Miss Feeley speak to it.

20:24:31 I don't think there's any waivers on this, from what --

20:24:34 there's three?

20:24:35 Okay.

20:24:35 Didn't know.

20:24:35 I don't know if there's a parking waiver.

20:24:39 That was I think one of the sticking points.

20:24:41 But anyway, that's getting into Miss Feeley's

20:24:45 presentation.

20:24:46 I don't want to dig too far into that out of respect




20:24:49 for what she wants to tell you all.

20:24:52 That being said, let me go ahead and show you the

20:24:54 future land use categories.

20:24:56 You have mixed use 60 along Kennedy Boulevard,

20:24:59 residential 10.

20:25:00 And then of course you have residential 20.

20:25:05 Which allows neighborhood commercial uses and also

20:25:08 allows residential office and professional office uses.

20:25:11 As you all know and I'm sure that you all have traveled

20:25:14 this part of Henderson Boulevard quite often.

20:25:16 The character of Henderson Boulevard is mixed.

20:25:19 There are general commercial uses, there are specialty

20:25:22 retail uses.

20:25:23 And there are also medical and professional office uses

20:25:25 along this particular seg am.

20:25:29 Varying intensities and Heights and architectural

20:25:32 features.

20:25:33 Request for tonight is approximately 5800 square feet

20:25:35 from what I understand, the difference between this one

20:25:37 and the prior one situate believe the setbacks are a

20:25:40 little further back.

20:25:41 Little more suburb in tile, which is allowed on




20:25:45 Henderson Boulevard according to the comprehensive

20:25:47 plan.

20:25:47 But this structure is further back and closer to the

20:25:50 residential, which lies directly to test a of the site

20:25:53 compared to the other structure which was much larger.

20:25:57 So it was farther away, the buffering, as it related to

20:26:00 the residential.

20:26:01 This is a small structure, less of an impact.

20:26:05 It is consistent with the form of the other offices in

20:26:09 the area.

20:26:09 So, based on the consistency of that, and the

20:26:13 compatibility of the existing uses along Henderson

20:26:16 Boulevard, we also found this particular request

20:26:18 consistent with the comprehensive plan.

20:26:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

20:26:29 >> Abbye Feeley, Land Development Coordination.

20:26:31 Wanted to look back on the last page of your staff

20:26:37 report, it does reference the zoning application, the

20:26:42 prior one 5,000 square foot medical office.

20:26:46 The request before you this evening, Council, 3224 as I

20:26:50 mentioned is a request for a 5800 square foot office

20:26:53 building containing both with medical office and




20:26:56 business professional office.

20:26:58 And it is a split equally between the two.

20:27:00 There is no parking waiver.

20:27:02 Site is going to be parked according to code.

20:27:05 There are three waivers.

20:27:07 The first is to reduce the required buffer along the

20:27:10 east from 15 feet with a six foot masonry wall to ten

20:27:13 foot with a six foot vinyl fence.

20:27:15 The second is to reduce required buffer along the south

20:27:19 from 15 feet with six foot masonry wall to 14 feet with

20:27:22 a six foot vinyl fence.

20:27:23 And the last is to reduce the required drive aisle from

20:27:27 26 feet to 24 feet.

20:27:28 Which is typical waiver on many of our requests before

20:27:34 you.

20:27:34 The setbacks are as follows: 50 foot to the north.

20:27:38 Ten foot to the east.

20:27:39 Seven foot to the south and 52 feet to the west.

20:27:42 Maximum building height is proposed at 35 feet.

20:27:45 As I mentioned, total of 27 parking spaces are required

20:27:49 and 27 spaces are being provided.

20:27:51 This is the site.




20:27:57 Along Henderson.

20:27:58 Cleveland to the south.

20:28:01 Matanzas to the east.

20:28:03 There are a series of office buildings along this area.

20:28:09 I remember the last hearing on this case, on this

20:28:13 property very vividly.

20:28:14 You also have the retail shop here, which this is the

20:28:19 CG, that triangle, so that triangle comes down almost

20:28:23 to the point of the property, which has the car wash

20:28:25 and I'll show you some other pictures on where we are.

20:28:29 Here you can see the site is vacant.

20:28:35 I think it's been vacant since the last time we closed

20:28:38 out the hearing on this property.

20:28:40 Single-family to the south.

20:28:43 Single-family along Matanzas.

20:28:48 To the east, a little pocket open space area there and

20:28:51 then office here.

20:28:52 Office here.

20:28:53 Some others mixed in there.

20:28:55 Here's the site.

20:29:01 This was the parking area for the old office, that used

20:29:09 to sit in the middle there.




20:29:10 This is turning the triangle to the south,

20:29:17 single-family rest dents.

20:29:21 On that triangle parcel to the north, which is the

20:29:23 retail cigar shop.

20:29:24 This is the other office building further south on

20:29:31 Henderson.

20:29:31 This is immediately across the street.

20:29:40 That small open area I talked to you about.

20:29:43 This is going further south on Brad Ford.

20:29:50 -- Bradford.

20:29:53 At the corner of Bradford and Cleveland.

20:29:55 And this is working my way south along Cleveland toward

20:30:01 MATANZA got a couple shots looking back north from

20:30:07 Cleveland toward the site.

20:30:08 So there would be a buffer required here.

20:30:11 That's the one that's going to have the wall with the

20:30:14 14 feet.

20:30:15 This is the property immediately behind.

20:30:20 Again, another view of that south buffer.

20:30:25 And there is the office to the north.

20:30:31 It was a little sunny out there.

20:30:33 I went back by this morning because some of the




20:30:36 pictures weren't so good.

20:30:37 On staff has currently found this application

20:30:42 inconsistent.

20:30:43 There needs to be some modifications to the waivers, as

20:30:47 you can see on page two of the staff report.

20:30:49 They just need to be worded a little differently in

20:30:51 order to capture what's actually occurring there.

20:30:54 There needs to be a removal of one of the waivers

20:30:56 that's currently on the plan.

20:30:58 It's not necessary.

20:30:59 And also removal of a hedge that's currently shown on

20:31:03 the driveway.

20:31:04 The second comments that are in there are from Mary,

20:31:08 the tree and landscape specialist.

20:31:10 There aren't many trees on the site and they are right

20:31:13 now seeking to remove all of them.

20:31:16 Since the site is less than an acre, that actually can

20:31:20 be done.

20:31:20 They will be required plantings.

20:31:24 But she did recommend that a note be added that larger

20:31:29 caliper trees be planted back and the applicant was

20:31:33 amenable to that.




20:31:35 There are three palm trees on-site and a pecan.

20:31:40 So there's not much.

20:31:41 When we say a hundred percent, it's hard because you

20:31:43 think it's a lot.

20:31:44 But only three trees, three palms and a pecan.

20:31:49 She is recommending all three palms are transplanted

20:31:52 and asked for a note for that.

20:31:54 And then some turf lot to be placed in some of the

20:32:00 south parking spaces.

20:32:01 Lastly -- there's two more.

20:32:05 Solid waste needed a notation added in relation to the

20:32:08 refuse carts.

20:32:09 They also needed a visual depiction corrected.

20:32:15 On that.

20:32:17 And lastly stormwater needed there to be an amendment

20:32:21 to the stormwater note to cite the correct standard

20:32:24 that this site will be held to.

20:32:26 In relationship to the PD criteria, Anthony provided an

20:32:33 analysis on there, related to the building and its

20:32:38 compatibility with the surrounding area.

20:32:42 I'm sorry.

20:32:43 I'm available for any questions.




20:32:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Questions Council?

20:32:50 Petitioner?

20:32:57 >> Good evening.

20:33:01 My name is Ralph Shuler.

20:33:03 I'm with JVB Architect, 1719 North Howard Avenue.

20:33:06 I'm the agent for the petition.

20:33:08 And I have been sworn.

20:33:09 As part of the team I'd like to introduce Lesley

20:33:13 Rudolph, the doctor who is going to have a hopefully a

20:33:20 successful practice here for many, many years to come.

20:33:23 She does dentistry, pediatric dentistry.

20:33:27 And that's what we are here to present to you tonight.

20:33:31 It's been a pleasure to work with staff on this

20:33:34 project.

20:33:34 There's been a history in this project.

20:33:37 We knew that going in.

20:33:38 We tried to be as sensitive as possibly could be to the

20:33:43 site.

20:33:43 I think the site is a very good candidate for a project

20:33:46 like this.

20:33:47 The only reason why we are here before you tonight, is

20:33:51 that it's a PD because it's a medical use.




20:33:54 Part it of the project is medical.

20:33:56 Only half is medical.

20:33:58 Other half is professional office.

20:33:59 That's what we're proposing, that's what we are going

20:34:02 to commit to.

20:34:02 That's what we want.

20:34:04 It's two story building, first floor is medical.

20:34:06 Second floor is professional office.

20:34:08 We have two separate entrances.

20:34:09 The it's all organized correctly.

20:34:12 It's very clean and very clear.

20:34:14 We have 27 parking spaces.

20:34:16 Which is exactly what we need.

20:34:17 We are not asking for a waiver.

20:34:19 It's a medium intensity project for project like this.

20:34:23 I'm certain we could have less, previous projects had a

20:34:27 lot more.

20:34:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here in opposition?

20:34:30 Anyone here in opposition?

20:34:31 All right.

20:34:31 Go ahead.

20:34:33 >> So, the previous project that was denied earlier was




20:34:37 about 8700 square feet, I believe.

20:34:40 Of which 5,000 square feet of that was the more

20:34:43 intensive medical use.

20:34:44 So, coming into all that together, we really worked

20:34:49 really hard to come up with a residential scenario that

20:34:54 looks residential, that kind of takes bungalow

20:34:58 aesthetic from Hyde Park, makes references to, this is

20:35:04 a transition site.

20:35:08 Go from more expensive commercial to the north, more

20:35:11 intensive commercial to is the south.

20:35:12 We have three corridors very close to the site.

20:35:14 We have Kennedy to the north, Cleveland to the south

20:35:16 and of course we're on Henderson.

20:35:19 So all of those things I think make for a very strong

20:35:23 case that this is an appropriate use for this project.

20:35:27 And for this site.

20:35:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What's your communication been with

20:35:31 the neighborhood?

20:35:32 >> Of course, we noticed, we noticed of course now --

20:35:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't doubt you noticed.

20:35:39 I had my phone number, no one ever called me.

20:35:44 Miss Rudolph, the dentist made personal calls and she




20:35:48 made personal attempts to 0 meet the neighborhood.

20:35:53 She melt with the neighborhood last week.

20:35:54 I'm going to let Lesley speak to that a little bit.

20:35:58 And there seemed to be I think some hangover here,

20:36:01 frankly.

20:36:02 I'm going to let Lesley give you kind of why she's here

20:36:11 and what transpired in the way of communication with

20:36:14 the neighborhood.

20:36:17 >> Hi, I'm Lesley Rudolph.

20:36:19 I grew up in south Tampa.

20:36:20 I'm a lifelong resident here.

20:36:22 I'm currently the only board certified pediatric

20:36:25 dentist in south Tampa.

20:36:26 And I'm just really excited to become a part of this

20:36:29 neighborhood and offer a service to the kids and the

20:36:31 overall Tampa community.

20:36:32 Last weekend I did go visit the neighbors.

20:36:36 Did I receive one call.

20:36:37 Prior to the hearing.

20:36:39 And it was suggested that I come meet the neighbors,

20:36:41 which I did.

20:36:42 And I introduced myself.




20:36:43 I passed out toothbrushes and just asked what were the

20:36:47 concerns and what could we do for people to try and

20:36:50 understand.

20:36:58 >> From what I understand, there was one particular

20:37:00 person who was concerned.

20:37:02 I saw some string of E-mails.

20:37:04 We tried to understand his concerns.

20:37:06 I'm sure alley talk with them.

20:37:09 But, I don't know what more we can do to make an

20:37:13 attractive infill development in this particular site.

20:37:18 I mean, everything, from building design, site design,

20:37:24 meeting with staff, understanding how, how a project

20:37:26 like this, the only things we're asking for are

20:37:31 extremely minor waivers.

20:37:32 We have a ten foot buffer at the smallest point.

20:37:35 But the angle of the building is such it's really

20:37:37 probably more like 13 or 14 on the east.

20:37:40 We're providing numerous trees on the site.

20:37:43 Going to plant 12 new trees.

20:37:44 We have a buffer to the south that meets the

20:37:46 requirement of 15 feet.

20:37:47 Other than a cart for solid waste, which intrudes on




20:37:54 that.

20:37:54 But really, it's the 15 feet.

20:37:57 We're going to make this a grand slam project for this

20:38:01 site.

20:38:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What's your height limit.

20:38:05 >> Two story building but because it's residential in

20:38:08 character, the height of the top of the roof is like

20:38:10 32 feet.

20:38:11 But the actual skin or the wall is only 24 feet.

20:38:15 It's a two-story building.

20:38:17 The previous development was with over parking, three

20:38:20 stories tall, much more intensive.

20:38:23 And on all fronts.

20:38:25 So, back to the building the little bit, in conclusion

20:38:31 really, again, it's a bungalow style.

20:38:35 We have two entrances that are, you know, reminiscent

20:38:38 of a front porch.

20:38:40 We have dimensional shingles, hip roof.

20:38:42 We have, we have put in real double hung windows that

20:38:46 are residential windows.

20:38:47 We are not talking store front.

20:38:49 We are going to really try and make this look as house




20:38:51 like as possible.

20:38:52 Sure, it's a business and everyone knows it's a

20:38:56 business, but as compatible to the neighborhood as we

20:38:59 could possibly make it.

20:39:00 We are going to introduce green technologies.

20:39:02 Not saying we are going to go for LEED certified.

20:39:05 We are certainly going into green technologies.

20:39:07 And, in conclusion, on the staff report it says this

20:39:12 was a great transitional project for the neighborhood.

20:39:15 I mean, that's in my opinion hits the nail right on the

20:39:19 head.

20:39:20 The it's a great transition from more intensive

20:39:23 commercial to less intensive residential.

20:39:24 Thank you.

20:39:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Because of the sense the tiff of the

20:39:32 neighborhood to the previous projects, did you think at

20:39:35 all of bringing the building all the way out to

20:39:37 Henderson?

20:39:39 >> We did explore that at the beginning.

20:39:41 And there's, there's pros and cons to every

20:39:47 solution.

20:39:48 The con to that, they now are parking all that activity




20:39:50 and all the traffic is on the back of the property.

20:39:53 The building is really, as well as the buffering, the

20:39:55 building is buffering what is the most intense

20:39:57 activity, which is cars parking, people coming and

20:40:01 going in and out and that noise.

20:40:02 If you put the building all the way up to the front,

20:40:05 really the opposite is occurring.

20:40:06 You're channeling more of that activity, more of that

20:40:09 noise to the rear of the property, closer and more

20:40:11 adjacent to residential.

20:40:12 So that's how we determined what the right location

20:40:16 was.

20:40:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.

20:40:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?

20:40:20 Okay.

20:40:21 Those in opposition, anyone here in support?

20:40:23 All opposition or support?

20:40:27 Those in support on the right, those in open potion to

20:40:29 my left.

20:40:30 To my least, opposition, support, to my right.

20:40:46 >> It's been a long day.

20:40:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Ma'am, if you come on, if you're in




20:40:53 support.

20:40:53 Yes, come on.

20:40:54 You come first.

20:40:57 >> Good evening.

20:40:58 My name is Janet coach.

20:41:01 I have been a resident of this area for over 50 years.

20:41:05 I own the property at 110 south MATANZA.

20:41:08 I have a unique perspective because I was at the

20:41:11 forefront of meeting with the neighbor whose opposed

20:41:13 the previous project.

20:41:14 It was something that we would not, would not have been

20:41:20 an asset to our neighborhood.

20:41:21 It would have been very bad for our home values.

20:41:24 I was so impressed with Dr. Rudolph because she took

20:41:28 the time to go back and see what exactly the neighbors

20:41:31 objected to on the first building.

20:41:34 And she systematically eliminated the things that were

20:41:38 a problem.

20:41:38 For the neighbors that have spoken.

20:41:41 And most of the opposition here is from Bradford, well,

20:41:47 Dr. Rudolph on her plan eliminated an exit and entrance

20:41:52 on Bradford.




20:41:53 There's only one entrance on Henderson to come in and

20:41:56 out and it does not include any kind of access on

20:41:59 Bradford whatsoever.

20:42:01 Now I also am representing, as I have met with my

20:42:03 neighbors directly across the street, who are the most

20:42:06 affected by this project, if anybody.

20:42:08 They are fine with it.

20:42:11 In fact, you were mentioning the trees and things, we

20:42:13 were talking about doing planting some bamboo.

20:42:17 Which I have a surplus of in my yard.

20:42:21 That would make a complete screen.

20:42:23 But the neighbors that bordered the back of her

20:42:27 property, they're the ones, and they have given me

20:42:31 their blessing to speak.

20:42:32 They said that they are very happy, very thrilled that

20:42:35 somebody so thoughtful came in and considered their

20:42:38 feelings.

20:42:39 She even let them choose what kind of fence would be

20:42:43 most aesthetically pleasing to them.

20:42:45 She has jumped through hoops and bent over backwards.

20:42:48 And personally speaking as a mother of two children who

20:42:51 grew up here also in South Tampa, and came back to




20:42:56 start their business, I think Tampa is losing a

20:42:59 tremendous resource if we discourage our young people

20:43:02 from coming back to our city and making their life

20:43:07 here.

20:43:07 Somebody that's moved from up north is not going to

20:43:11 have the commitment and the feelings of preserving and

20:43:17 making a nice neighborhood, as people he that have been

20:43:20 here all our lives.

20:43:22 And, Miss Rudolph has been here all of her life.

20:43:26 So I would hope that you would approve this.

20:43:27 I think she is -- I wish I had small children now,

20:43:32 because she's just a wonderful, wonderful with

20:43:35 children.

20:43:35 Wonderful pediatric dentist.

20:43:37 And she was the top of her class.

20:43:39 I don't think we ought to run this great asset away.

20:43:42 Thank you.

20:43:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker?

20:43:46 >> Good evening.

20:43:46 My name is Robert Potter.

20:43:48 I live at 207 South Bradford Avenue, so I'm about

20:43:51 probably three lots down from the site we are talking




20:43:55 about.

20:43:55 I do have --

20:43:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You're on the south side of

20:44:01 Cleveland?

20:44:01 >> I'm on the south side of Cleveland.

20:44:03 I'm on Bradford though.

20:44:04 I do have a few minutes from other people.

20:44:08 I expect to the take about five minutes.

20:44:10 We do not have --

20:44:16 >> I'm, sorry sir.

20:44:18 If I could interrupt.

20:44:19 You intend to have additional minutes, is that what

20:44:21 you're asking for?

20:44:22 >> Yes.

20:44:23 >> Okay, I see one, two, three, four, five names.

20:44:26 If you could just raise your hand and acknowledge that

20:44:29 you're here.

20:44:30 Carrie Andershaft.

20:44:34 Joseph Andershaft.

20:44:36 Josephine Kagno.

20:44:46 John Van Pelt.

20:44:48 And Ricardo Kagno.




20:44:51 And where's Mr. Van Pelt?

20:44:54 Thank you.

20:44:54 And they won't be speaking.

20:44:59 Five additional minutes.

20:45:04 >> May I begin?

20:45:06 >> All right.

20:45:06 >> We do not have an official neighborhood association.

20:45:09 But we do have a very close neighborhood.

20:45:12 Most of us have lived in the neighborhood for 35 years

20:45:15 or more.

20:45:15 I'm basically kind of the rookie at 27 years.

20:45:18 Our oldest, our patriarch and matriarch have been there

20:45:24 for 50 years.

20:45:25 And I was you can talking to our matriarch last night

20:45:28 as we were out walking our dogs and she mentioned that

20:45:31 six months after they built their home 50 years ago,

20:45:34 they began having to deal with zoning issue us to

20:45:36 protect the neighborhood.

20:45:37 Both of them are here tonight.

20:45:39 They're still protecting their neighborhood after 50

20:45:42 years.

20:45:43 We spent a lot of time with each other.




20:45:46 We oftentimes have Thanksgiving dinners or 4th of July

20:45:50 get-togethers for relatively close neighborhood.

20:45:53 We try very hard to protect Bradford avenue.

20:45:56 And the reason that we're in opposition to this

20:45:59 building is because it is on Bradford every.

20:46:01 There's a large portion that fronts on Henderson.

20:46:05 We don't deny that.

20:46:06 But it is the cornerstone or the gateway onto Bradford.

20:46:11 We have raised our children in this neighborhood.

20:46:13 Many of us are now raising our grandchildren.

20:46:15 Not me, I'm too young to have grandchildren.

20:46:18 [ Laughter ]

20:46:18 >> But one, probably our -- shouldn't say our cutest

20:46:22 grandchild.

20:46:23 But one of our cute grandchildren now stands out in the

20:46:26 front yard and she shakes her fingers at the cars

20:46:29 buzzing by and yells out, slow down.

20:46:32 We have already a problem with a lot of cars and

20:46:36 traffic coming down Bradford avenue.

20:46:38 I think what's happening, they're going eastbound on

20:46:42 Kennedy, they see the light at MacDill turn red.

20:46:45 So they know if they cut down to Azeele and go on down




20:46:48 Azeele, they can get to where they're going eastbound.

20:46:51 Azeele is basically four lanes going one way, very few

20:46:55 stop lights on it.

20:46:56 So we have a lot of that traffic already buzzing down

20:46:58 our street.

20:46:59 We believe that this proposed building is going to do

20:47:04 nothing but generate more traffic.

20:47:06 Yes, she has closed off the entrance to Bradford.

20:47:10 We're very appreciative of that fact.

20:47:12 But we all know that cars are going to find ways into

20:47:15 this site that travel on the smaller roads, the quicker

20:47:19 roads, less traffic.

20:47:20 Less traffic to them, more traffic to us.

20:47:23 This use requires a change to PD.

20:47:26 When you make a change to PD, it requires that you be

20:47:30 consistent with 27.321.

20:47:33 If you read 27.321, there's at least seven references

20:47:38 to protecting the surrounding neighborhood.

20:47:40 And looking at the question of whether or not this is

20:47:43 compatible with the surrounding neighborhood.

20:47:45 We oppose this building because we do not believe that

20:47:49 it is compatible with the surrounding neighborhood.




20:47:51 Reference was made to calling it a Hyde Park bungalow.

20:48:00 I know Hyde Park bungalows, and this is not him.

20:48:04 This is a rectangular, square building, masonry with a

20:48:10 little bit of architectural flair added to the four

20:48:14 corners.

20:48:15 It is replacing a building that was a residential home

20:48:22 that had been converted into a doctor's office.

20:48:25 And three doctors ran their practice in that office

20:48:28 for, I'm not sure how many years, but probably 20 or

20:48:31 more.

20:48:32 We took down that residential building and now we are

20:48:35 putting up what's referred to as a Hyde Park bungalow.

20:48:39 It's simply is not compatible with the neighborhood.

20:48:41 We have a neighborhood that butts up right next to

20:48:45 Kennedy Boulevard.

20:48:46 We have very, very short area in which to make a

20:48:49 transition.

20:48:49 About a one block area.

20:48:51 And this building is in that transition area.

20:48:54 What we want is something that is compatible with

20:48:58 residential in flight.

20:48:59 I know you hear a lot of people that come in here and




20:49:02 just site no, no, no change whatsoever.

20:49:05 There is a building directly across the street from the

20:49:09 proposed site, you have been shown a picture before.

20:49:13 I'll put it up here again.

20:49:16 I was at the timed to slap it in there and pull it back

20:49:20 off real quick, because when you first look at it, it

20:49:24 looks like a residence, it looks like a single-family

20:49:26 home with a detached garage.

20:49:28 That's what the neighborhood wants.

20:49:29 That's what the neighborhood is willing to support.

20:49:31 That's what with the neighborhood did support.

20:49:33 This structure is -- the large building, is 2,000

20:49:39 square feet on the bottom.

20:49:40 2,000 square feet on the top.

20:49:41 And the building in the back, looks like a garage, is

20:49:45 about 1500 square feet.

20:49:47 So you've got 5500 square feet in this type of

20:49:50 configuration.

20:49:51 If I remember right, the petitioner was asking to put

20:49:53 up 5800 feet.

20:49:55 So she can essentially do this with what she's, her

20:50:01 existing property.




20:50:01 And this is what's compatible with the neighborhood.

20:50:04 This is what serves as a transition.

20:50:07 This is what the neighborhood wants.

20:50:08 We are not just here saying no to everything.

20:50:10 We are saying look, use your creativity.

20:50:14 Use your imagination, come up with something like this.

20:50:17 In fact, come up with this.

20:50:18 We don't care.

20:50:19 She could take this and build this there.

20:50:21 We'd be happy.

20:50:22 It's not impossible.

20:50:23 It's not unfeasible.

20:50:24 It's there.

20:50:25 It exists.

20:50:26 And I'm guessing she could probably build that cheaper

20:50:28 today than it was built seven years ago.

20:50:31 Parking, we're very concerned about parking.

20:50:37 Not so much parking, but we are concerned about the

20:50:39 traffic.

20:50:40 I've already gone over that but we are already having a

20:50:43 lot of traffic up and down Bradford.

20:50:45 To the extent that our two-year-old children are




20:50:49 standing out there shaking their fingers.

20:50:52 I'll let you guess where that he got that from.

20:50:55 That he was a lot of us out there doing that because

20:50:57 it's a problem.

20:50:57 We believe that if we had something more like the

20:51:02 building we're being shown, that is more compatible to

20:51:06 the neighborhood.

20:51:06 Probably less expensive in terms of traffic, probably

20:51:09 less intensive in terms of traffic up and down our

20:51:12 streets.

20:51:13 But our primary opposition some this is it doesn't

20:51:17 provide that transition.

20:51:18 We have got Kennedy that's purely commercial.

20:51:20 You've got Bradford, which is purely residential.

20:51:23 What we want is some kind of reasonable transition.

20:51:25 And we have got a perfect example of it literally

20:51:29 across the street.

20:51:29 Thank you.

20:51:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

20:51:33 Next speaker?

20:51:39 >> My name's John Kabbes.

20:51:45 I live 204 South Bradford.




20:51:48 And we stand before you again from a year ago.

20:51:50 Our neighborhood would like to resolve this in a

20:51:52 positive way.

20:51:52 I'd like to give you a slide here.

20:51:55 I need the whole thing blown up.

20:52:02 Can you blow the whole thing up?

20:52:04 >> There's a button on there.

20:52:06 Zoom in and out.

20:52:27 >> The original footprint from Dr. Hampton's office,

20:52:31 which was 1500 square foot, is this area right here,

20:52:34 that there's no grass.

20:52:35 You can see the dirt area right in there.

20:52:37 So 1500 square foot and supposedly at the time, it was

20:52:42 a single doctor who's going to 0 and had his practice

20:52:47 there.

20:52:47 He brought in two additional doctors.

20:52:50 And at the time, converted his garage into an operating

20:52:53 room.

20:52:54 So he went from 1500 to 2,000.

20:52:57 It's all been bulldozed.

20:52:59 We don't have that any more.

20:53:00 But we had no control over that.




20:53:02 And we were told it's going to be a single doctor.

20:53:04 All of a sudden three doctors are there.

20:53:07 But with a 1500 square foot office, and that was

20:53:10 basically through working, in that footprint, they

20:53:15 didn't have enough parking with a 1500-foot, with the,

20:53:20 with 3,000, you're going to double this footprint and

20:53:23 then go two stories.

20:53:25 This is going to be an issue.

20:53:26 We welcome a building like this across the street.

20:53:31 We figure 44,500 square foot two story, more than

20:53:34 welcome to work with any developer, any doctor.

20:53:37 We'll all show up and we'll bring our shovels, be the

20:53:40 first one to break ground for them.

20:53:42 We'd be so happy to put this behind us.

20:53:45 But what we don't like is the mixed use, where, where

20:53:49 they have part medical, and then part professional

20:53:53 office space to make the parking numbers work.

20:53:57 That's not what we want.

20:53:59 We want all medical.

20:54:00 Give us parking that will cover that.

20:54:02 And you can build a 4,000 square foot medical office.

20:54:05 Medical offices rents for one to one and a half, two




20:54:09 times more than professional office.

20:54:11 Why would you want to build another 3,000 and rent to

20:54:14 it professional when you can make the whole thing a

20:54:16 dental clinic, make it smaller, make it fit the

20:54:20 footprint.

20:54:21 Make the parking just a -- fit the site plan without

20:54:26 the camouflage of 3,000 medical, 3,000 professional.

20:54:29 That's what we're looking at.

20:54:30 And City Council isn't going to be there to monitor

20:54:33 this the next five or 10 years.

20:54:35 That's not your job.

20:54:36 Your job is make the decision today.

20:54:37 Work with us so we can work with her.

20:54:39 Let's just do pure medical and see if we can't come up

20:54:43 with a solution.

20:54:44 Thank you.

20:54:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker?

20:54:52 >> I'm Adam Kijanski, 107 South Matanzas.

20:54:56 Actually this site here.

20:54:58 This building right there, that's my house.

20:55:02 So I do butt up to the post.

20:55:04 So the impact is going to affect me and my home where




20:55:08 my child, both my children and my life wife.

20:55:11 We have a pool in the backyard.

20:55:12 So the building, the back of the property is more of an

20:55:15 issue as opposed to the parking.

20:55:18 I see it said if the parking was in the back of the

20:55:21 dentists office, most of them close by 5:00 then it's

20:55:25 going to be vacant.

20:55:31 >> I'm on one of the back sides.

20:55:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: If we gave you this picture, could

20:55:37 you show us?

20:55:38 >> Sure.

20:55:54 >> This one right over here.

20:55:56 I butt up to the commercial, currently that's right on

20:55:59 the corner.

20:55:59 I did meet with Dr. Rudolph.

20:56:03 Very pleasant.

20:56:04 I would love to see her dentistry go up there.

20:56:06 But I would like a building that's more appropriate for

20:56:08 the neighborhood.

20:56:09 And preferably, you know, without the setbacks, because

20:56:12 it would be with essentially my backyard that when I go

20:56:15 out there, I'm going to be seeing that on a regular




20:56:18 basis.

20:56:19 We did talk to her about landscaping and she was

20:56:22 amenable to putting up mature landscaping as opposed to

20:56:26 small trees that would take years to grow.

20:56:26 Because if you look at most of these pictures, the

20:56:28 whole neighborhood is covered in large oak trees.

20:56:30 So, clearcutting the lot and then taking time would,

20:56:34 you know, not be the most pleasant thing.

20:56:37 Thank you.

20:56:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker?

20:56:43 >> Sal McKenzie, 209 South Bradford Street.

20:56:47 I have been sworn in.

20:56:47 Again, like the rest of our neighbors, we are not

20:56:50 objecting the practice going on Bradford avenue.

20:56:53 It is the size of the building.

20:56:55 I probably pay the most taxes on the street.

20:56:58 And obviously because of the economy and everything,

20:57:01 the value of my home has dropped tremendously.

20:57:04 My taxes haven't.

20:57:06 So, by having the type of structure that they want to

20:57:10 put on that property, is just going to deter the value

20:57:13 even more.




20:57:14 So, I really would like to preserve number one, the

20:57:17 value of my house.

20:57:19 Also two, as they were all saying, the cars that come

20:57:22 down, especially around between 4:00 and 6:00 p.m.

20:57:27 Will come down Henderson, cross Bradford, to get to

20:57:30 Azeele.

20:57:31 And it's almost like we would need a traffic light at

20:57:34 the end of Bradford and Azeele.

20:57:36 Also, because of the speed that the cars do go through

20:57:40 there, when I moved there probably the four years ago

20:57:44 this weekend, it was great. I had a driveway.

20:57:46 I could park my car on the driveway.

20:57:48 And it was a better way of life for where I'm living.

20:57:52 Now, I have to park my car in the street, just to slow

20:57:56 the cars down.

20:57:57 And like the other neighbors, we will actually

20:58:01 sometimes talk right at the edge of the driveway, just

20:58:04 past almost into the road, just so cars will slow down.

20:58:08 We do have the point out to them, the kids absolute I

20:58:12 are in the neighborhood.

20:58:13 When I moved there, there was families starting.

20:58:15 Now we have children from six months and I say




20:58:18 children, but they're 17 years old.

20:58:20 So it is a family community.

20:58:21 We do watch with out for each other.

20:58:24 I am not opposed to Dr. Rudolph building a business.

20:58:27 Young, inspirational, motivational, I think it's great.

20:58:32 I think it's what we need.

20:58:33 Not that type of building on our property.

20:58:35 Thank you very much.

20:58:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker?

20:58:40 >> Hi, I'm Brian Wright.

20:58:42 212 South Bradford Avenue here in Tampa.

20:58:45 I'm basically about two issues I'd like to cover here.

20:58:49 Just so you can see quickly, she's not the one shaking

20:58:53 her finger, but she might know the one she is.

20:58:56 My lovely kids.

20:58:57 My two issues are basically, going to be safety and the

20:59:01 welfare of my family.

20:59:02 I know when have this other building here, I believe is

20:59:06 going to start getting more traffic.

20:59:08 More up and down our street.

20:59:09 The safety.

20:59:10 And I just want to make sure it's going to be very




20:59:13 pleasant.

20:59:13 Understand we are on a residential area.

20:59:15 Do I not that he the property is zoned RO 1.

20:59:18 I believe they can build a building and still maintain

20:59:21 that zoning without having to go to a PUD.

20:59:24 Just a couple more pictures here.

20:59:28 At the top one, several times, and I'm pretty sure that

20:59:34 will combine, will abide by the RO 1 zoning.

20:59:38 But I know the bottom one will not.

20:59:40 My second issue I want to address is, I don't see that

20:59:45 there's really a hardship for me to explain that, a

20:59:48 hardship for the people.

20:59:51 I went back and I did some research as to what the

20:59:55 zoning -- not zoning, but what the office vacancy rates

20:59:59 are.

21:00:00 I looked at two documents here, Wilson Ellis.

21:00:02 The other one is Colliers and Arnold.

21:00:06 If you look in the CBD, you're basically 20.1%.

21:00:10 South Tampa is at 12%.

21:00:11 And you're looking at the Westchase area.

21:00:14 21.6% vacancy rate.

21:00:17 I don't see a hardship for them to build an extra large




21:00:20 building for office space for the second floor.

21:00:22 So, I'm a little concerned about the size of this

21:00:25 property.

21:00:25 Hopefully you guys will take into consideration that it

21:00:28 does not really comply with our current use for the

21:00:32 area.

21:00:33 Thank you very much.

21:00:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: John, you had a question?

21:00:42 >> Good evening, councilmember, my name is Bruce young,

21:00:45 201 south wood land avenue.

21:00:47 I have been sworn in.

21:00:48 Along with my neighbors, I do have some of the same

21:00:51 concerns.

21:00:51 The first one is the size and scope of the proposed

21:00:53 project.

21:00:54 The second one is the impact on the existing

21:00:56 neighborhood.

21:00:57 As we have discussed, we do have a number of families

21:01:00 in the area.

21:01:01 Last count, I think we have around 35 children in the

21:01:04 neighborhood.

21:01:05 There was just one actually born two weeks ago.




21:01:08 So one of my issues is also the impact on the existing

21:01:12 neighborhood.

21:01:13 When I talk about the impact, I talk about parking and

21:01:16 the traffic.

21:01:17 So one of the things that we looked at was when you

21:01:21 look at the office, the top half being professional

21:01:26 office, which allows lower parking.

21:01:29 I don't think there's any guarantees and there's no way

21:01:32 to police it, that it's going to stay that way.

21:01:35 So that's one of our issues there.

21:01:37 The petitioner spoke about the three streets that

21:01:41 border that property.

21:01:43 One being Kennedy, the other being Henderson.

21:01:46 And one being Cleveland.

21:01:47 And Cleveland really splits right down southern pines

21:01:50 neighborhood.

21:01:51 My house is on the corner of Cleveland and woodland.

21:01:53 So to say that that's a great street to have bordering

21:01:57 your property, that's a shortcut to get to this

21:02:00 property.

21:02:01 And then in terms of the building, the building

21:02:05 blending in with the neighborhood, in our opinion, the




21:02:07 building does not meet the character of the

21:02:09 neighborhood.

21:02:10 I think that's a key trait.

21:02:12 And we discussed this last time and even Miss Feeley

21:02:15 brought that up in some earlier discussions.

21:02:18 And then one other thing I wanted to bring up.

21:02:21 And it gets back to the no guarantees.

21:02:24 I'm not sure, and I don't know if this is an issue to

21:02:29 discuss here.

21:02:30 But I'm not sure that the doctor even owns this

21:02:33 property.

21:02:33 Because when you look at what it says on the

21:02:35 development, it says it's red stone investment.

21:02:38 Dental office.

21:02:40 So to me, that sounds like a commercial development

21:02:43 person who's going to be leasing this building, which

21:02:46 to me I think that removes the dentist from any

21:02:52 residential liability per se.

21:02:53 I'm not saying she wouldn't be a good citizen.

21:02:56 But if you're in a commercial building, the commercial

21:03:00 owners are going to be calling the shots.

21:03:02 It happens to be a national development firm.




21:03:04 They have offices all over the country.

21:03:06 Here's their, one of their offices that they built here

21:03:09 in Tampa.

21:03:10 Which is by the McDonald on Cleveland.

21:03:13 Which is currently vacant.

21:03:15 And that is where the doctor's office, that's where the

21:03:18 doctor's business is currently registered out of.

21:03:22 So, I don't know if this commercial investment company

21:03:26 will have the same interests in the neighborhood as the

21:03:28 doctor.

21:03:28 So, I have not met the Dr. I'm sure she has great

21:03:32 intentions.

21:03:32 I personally would like to see a smaller office

21:03:35 building with a little bit less traffic.

21:03:39 And to me, the traffic gets into the parking

21:03:41 requirements.

21:03:42 And I appreciate your time.

21:03:43 Thank you very much.

21:03:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker?

21:03:45 Thank you.

21:03:48 >> Good evening, Councilmembers.

21:03:51 My name is Bill Demeter.




21:03:54 I'll be very brief.

21:03:56 My wife Gayle and I have lived in the neighborhood for

21:03:58 32 years.

21:03:59 We raised two children there, now have grandchildren.

21:04:01 This is a very sensitive neighborhood.

21:04:05 Everyone is very, very close.

21:04:08 We are active on our streets.

21:04:10 We're out and about.

21:04:11 I'm here to tell you, ladies and gentlemen, that this

21:04:14 is absolutely unnecessary the tonight.

21:04:16 No zoning has to be changed.

21:04:18 I'm all for the good doctor to build a successful

21:04:21 practice there.

21:04:22 But, what can be built there with the zoning that

21:04:25 exists can be built there.

21:04:27 She can build a 5,000 square foot building like the one

21:04:31 across the street that everybody likes.

21:04:32 And get everything that she wants.

21:04:34 This rezoning is absolutely unnecessary.

21:04:36 That's all I have to say.

21:04:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

21:04:45 >> Thank you.




21:05:07 Scott Molnar -- will you raise your hand please.

21:05:11 Gayle Demeter.

21:05:15 Emma Nelson.

21:05:16 Sherry Nelson and Thor Nelson.

21:05:22 Five additional minutes.

21:05:23 >> Okay.

21:05:26 Good evening, my name is Joe Ullrich, 206 South

21:05:30 Bradford Avenue.

21:05:31 I have lived there will be 27 years in September.

21:05:33 I know everybody is tired.

21:05:35 I'll be as fast as I possibly can.

21:05:37 Try to hit the highlights.

21:05:38 Hopefully we get this straighten out.

21:05:41 You heard a lot of passionate conversation about the

21:05:44 neighborhood and the business also.

21:05:46 We really would like to see Lesley move into the area.

21:05:49 She's a great person.

21:05:50 Young, we'd like to see that kind of business.

21:05:55 But certainly not an this expense.

21:05:57 Because we're the ones right on Bradford, we are going

21:05:59 to pay the most for that business.

21:06:00 I'll show you how in just a second.




21:06:02 But the reality of the situation, we have architects

21:06:06 quoting one thing, attorneys quoting the other.

21:06:08 I'm just a guy on Bradford avenue.

21:06:11 All I have to rely on is what I know happens in the

21:06:13 neighborhood.

21:06:14 We have photographs, we have got everything we could

21:06:16 possibly do to show you what the situation is there.

21:06:18 And hopefully will make our case.

21:06:21 So I'd like to start first of all with the density of

21:06:23 the area and how it's currently being used.

21:06:28 You will notice right up here where the red DOT is,

21:06:32 that's where the proposed property is going in.

21:06:34 Which is really Ruth, borders on Bradford avenue and

21:06:38 frontage on Henderson.

21:06:40 Now, what we have going on in our neighborhood, no one

21:06:43 wants to bring to your attention, is the fact Bradford

21:06:46 first of all is the most narrow street in the whole

21:06:49 southern pines estates.

21:06:50 It's a narrow street.

21:06:51 In addition to that, it's a major cut through, which

21:06:54 means people going from Azeele up to Kennedy Boulevard,

21:06:57 or picking up into Henderson, and then up to Kennedy,




21:07:00 and vice versus.

21:07:02 So any time of the morning, any time of the evening,

21:07:05 commuters are using this as a back and forth, north and

21:07:08 south back and forth.

21:07:09 Additionally, you've got a huge cut through on

21:07:12 Cleveland going, and MacDill.

21:07:14 So this little section, even though it's just 18,000

21:07:18 square feet of land and so forth and so on.

21:07:21 That's really the corner ever cut through and cut

21:07:23 through.

21:07:24 That's really what we're talking about here.

21:07:26 There's a ton of traffic there.

21:07:27 This happens this is 15 days ago.

21:07:31 What is so odd, I took the picture the day before the

21:07:34 meeting was supposed to happen.

21:07:36 Obviously got rescheduled.

21:07:38 But, somebody's coming across, coming through this

21:07:41 whole cut-through on Cleveland.

21:07:44 This is at, just about 10:00 in the morning.

21:07:46 They were coming across on Cleveland heading west.

21:07:49 They he were going to go south on Henderson.

21:07:51 Somebody was coming south on Henderson and trying to go




21:07:54 east on Cleveland.

21:07:56 And you can see right here the police are there, the

21:07:58 fire department's there.

21:08:00 These people spun each other out right in the middle of

21:08:02 Henderson Boulevard.

21:08:03 Two cars blocking four lanes of traffic until they have

21:08:06 got to move the site over to the Cleveland.

21:08:09 The reality is these things happen a lot more

21:08:11 frequently in our neighborhood, in our area than it has

21:08:13 in the past and certainly in other areas.

21:08:16 We have a little exception there.

21:08:17 But in addition to the traffic, which is really

21:08:20 escalating, I might add.

21:08:22 We also have some huge parking issues.

21:08:26 Now this is a typical night in my neighborhood.

21:08:30 You have got sushi up here, right across the street

21:08:34 from that you have Edwards tobacco.

21:08:36 When Edwards tobacco does a promotion, they're parked

21:08:39 all the way down to Azeele on Bradford.

21:08:42 Keep in mind this is a narrow street.

21:08:44 People are weaving in and out.

21:08:46 People kick ting the ball, running into a the street.




21:08:48 There's going to be an accident it's not question, it's

21:08:51 going to happen.

21:08:52 But the reality. Situation, as you can see here,

21:08:56 they're turning the corner going over to Cleveland.

21:08:59 We don't have enough as you faith into our

21:09:01 neighborhood, we have subsidized all the businesses we

21:09:05 can.

21:09:05 There's no more room.

21:09:08 That's why it's so important we get this right this

21:09:11 evening.

21:09:11 We got to get this parking issue resolved.

21:09:14 This is the proposed site right here.

21:09:16 And also right here.

21:09:19 We don't have a chance.

21:09:20 The neighborhood does not have a chance.

21:09:24 Without the proper parking, it will not bode well for

21:09:27 the neighborhood.

21:09:28 Our welfare is at stake.

21:09:29 In addition, some of my neighbors resorted to

21:09:38 getting -- you can see this one, the condition that's

21:09:40 in.

21:09:41 That has been up there for years.




21:09:42 That's how much parking we have in the neighborhood.

21:09:44 As you can see, we're pretty much basic everyday

21:09:48 residential Tampa neighborhood.

21:09:49 We have some beautiful homes, two story brick, you

21:09:51 know, the singe will story, but the reality, we have

21:09:55 issues with parking, we have issues with traffic.

21:09:57 Now, the proposed property.

21:10:04 If Dr. Was good for anything, he taught us a lot.

21:10:10 Because now we are saying, okay 2900 square feet of

21:10:14 dental office.

21:10:16 Only have 2900 square feet of just for business office.

21:10:22 I was talking to a couple attorneys and an architect

21:10:25 that's a friend of mine.

21:10:27 I asked them, look, can you take where somebody has

21:10:30 lunch out of the floor plan and say hey, we're going to

21:10:33 designate that as office space now?

21:10:36 So we can allocate less, get a little bit more

21:10:39 consideration of the parking?

21:10:40 Because that's exactly what's presented to us.

21:10:43 In a letter that was circulated through the

21:10:45 neighborhood from Lesley.

21:10:47 States clearly it will be a two-story building with




21:10:49 2900 square feet of pediatric dental office on the

21:10:52 first floor and 2900 square feet on the second floor,

21:10:55 which will house my private business and staff lounge

21:10:58 for my practice.

21:10:59 Medical's medical.

21:11:01 It doesn't matter if you're eating lunch in the lounge,

21:11:04 it doesn't matter if you're sitting at your desk.

21:11:06 If you're working in a medical office, it's a medical

21:11:09 office.

21:11:10 I asked and the neighborhood asked let's just call this

21:11:12 building medical and build accordingly.

21:11:14 Let's just call it what it is.

21:11:16 There's no guarantees that you can give me this evening

21:11:18 that a year from now, six months from now, two years

21:11:21 from now, five years from now, what's being proposed to

21:11:24 us this evening is actually what's going to happen on

21:11:27 that prop.

21:11:28 We don't know.

21:11:29 You can't give me those guarantees.

21:11:31 The only protection we have is to keep that RO.

21:11:33 That's it.

21:11:35 Take you that away.




21:11:36 Our neighborhood's down the tubes.

21:11:38 Now, as far as the parking goes, again, there's 27

21:11:42 spaces and based on the way this is arranged here, the

21:11:46 books formula that Dr. Janssen used to use, half

21:11:49 dental, half office, therefore we only need 27 spaces.

21:11:53 And that would be the minimum standard.

21:11:55 So I submit to you the minimum standard isn't even in

21:12:00 our neighborhood.

21:12:03 Here's Dr. Jansen, his old building, he had 18 places

21:12:05 and there were still cars parked up and down the

21:12:08 street.

21:12:08 That was approximately 2,000 square feet.

21:12:10 So we are going to triple the square footage and only

21:12:14 add nine parking places?

21:12:15 It is not enough.

21:12:17 In addition, here's, I went to another sole

21:12:22 practitioner who has 6,000 square feet.

21:12:26 It doesn't exist.

21:12:26 I couldn't find much more than 2,000 square feet with

21:12:29 one exception.

21:12:30 Only thing that came close to what's being proposed

21:12:32 right now is 7250 square feet, 1010 south MacDill




21:12:40 avenue.

21:12:41 It's around, almost 32,000 square feet.

21:12:45 They have 45 parking places.

21:12:47 45 parking places.

21:12:48 Where here, we are talking about nearly 6,000 square

21:12:51 feet with only 27 parking places.

21:12:53 Here's what it looks like on a Sunday morning about

21:12:56 11:00.

21:12:57 This is what it looks like on a Monday morning at

21:13:01 11:00.

21:13:02 There aren't enough parking places.

21:13:04 Okay.

21:13:06 Edwards tobacco, are well within their criteria for

21:13:09 parking.

21:13:10 They didn't know they were going to be so popular.

21:13:13 But there's overflow coming into our area.

21:13:16 Same thing with SoHo sushi.

21:13:18 Great restaurant but this overflow.

21:13:21 Okay?

21:13:22 So they're coming down Bradford.

21:13:24 Now we have a situation where somebody's claiming that

21:13:26 it's going to be a 6,000 square feet building with




21:13:29 3,000 office, 3,000 medical that could end up 6,000

21:13:32 medical just like something along this line, and 27

21:13:36 parking places aren't going to be enough for the

21:13:38 employees.

21:13:38 Much less the patients.

21:13:40 So I submit to you these are minimum standards.

21:13:42 We are the exception.

21:13:43 If there's a hardship here, we are the hardship.

21:13:46 The neighborhood's the hardship.

21:13:48 We need more parking in our area.

21:13:50 Now the zoning is great.

21:13:51 I'm sure worse in other areas of Tampa.

21:13:54 In this area it does not work.

21:13:56 As far as drainage goes, yes -- is that me?

21:14:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir. Yeah, your time is up.

21:14:10 >> To approve this, only one person is going to benefit

21:14:14 at the expense of dozens of families.

21:14:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.

21:14:17 >> Sir, did you want to give those to the clerk?

21:14:20 >> Sure, I'd love to.

21:14:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilmember Dingfelder was fir.

21:14:24 You have a question, then Councilwoman Saul-Sena.




21:14:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mease Miss Feeley?

21:14:32 A question.

21:14:33 And then I have a couple comments.

21:14:35 We do have rebuttal --

21:14:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We do have rebuttal from the

21:14:41 petitioner.

21:14:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The RO 1 that's currently on there.

21:14:46 So, allows office use, but obviously doesn't allow any

21:14:54 medical use and that's why this petition is before us,

21:14:57 correct?

21:14:58 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Office use in the RO-1 is a special use

21:15:01 two, which is a public hearing before you.

21:15:03 Medical in the RO-1 is a special use 2.

21:15:08 Or a PD.

21:15:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Right.

21:15:11 But any other type of office could build there as a

21:15:16 matter of right in the RO-1?

21:15:18 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Correct.

21:15:19 Accountant, real estate.

21:15:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So if somebody decided they're going

21:15:23 to build a building there and put in 25 spaces or 35

21:15:28 spaces, if they could fit it, I mean I don't know if




21:15:31 they could fit it.

21:15:33 Maybe they could.

21:15:33 So then you've got 35 potential cars running up and

21:15:39 down the various streets of South Tampa.

21:15:42 And they wouldn't even be here today.

21:15:45 They'd just be pulling permit.

21:15:48 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Correct.

21:15:48 Which is where we went back to when we heard this case

21:15:53 before, was that there were certain rights that were on

21:15:56 the property and certain things shifting around.

21:15:58 And there are.

21:15:59 Understand the RO 1, which that district talks about

21:16:03 infill development and opportunities for infill of

21:16:05 residential non-residential uses, and it does allow for

21:16:09 the different capacity of office.

21:16:11 I could also tell you per the use table other uses that

21:16:15 it would be allowed in the RO-1 as well if you're

21:16:18 interested in that.

21:16:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here's my comment, Mr. Chairman.

21:16:23 And I'm going to throw it out now.

21:16:25 And perhaps the rebuttal can address it.

21:16:29 When I first came on Council, we approved a zoning at




21:16:34 the corner of Kennedy and KRENTEL over near Lois.

21:16:43 It was for a bank, pretty good size bank.

21:16:46 And the neighborhood said we don't necessarily oppose

21:16:49 that bank because we recognize we're right there by

21:16:53 Kennedy.

21:16:53 But we're extremely concerned that that bank is going

21:16:57 to attract additional traffic cutting through our

21:17:00 neighborhood.

21:17:01 So the compromise that was worked out between the

21:17:04 neighborhood, the petitioner and this Council and our

21:17:07 transportation staffer, was to close KRENTEL right

21:17:12 there at the face ever Kennedy Boulevard.

21:17:15 We have heard now through various hours and hours of

21:17:21 petitions on this property that Bradford is a bad

21:17:24 cut-through and we have 20 folks here tonight to

21:17:28 testify to that.

21:17:29 The other gentleman spoke to a lot of parking problems.

21:17:34 We have a parking code that says that X amount of

21:17:38 square footage of office slash medical office needs 27

21:17:43 spaces.

21:17:45 I don't think it's fair or even legal of us to, you

21:17:50 know, to demand more.




21:17:51 That's what our code says, it's based upon national

21:17:54 standards.

21:17:55 So I'm not going to strain to the parking issue.

21:17:57 But I'd like to focus a little bit on that cut-through

21:18:00 issue.

21:18:01 I would love to see our Council think about the

21:18:06 solution that we did in KRENTEL.

21:18:08 You know, I know this city and this board is not

21:18:12 thrilled about closing off streets.

21:18:14 But on occasion, we do.

21:18:15 Before I came on this Council, this body closed off

21:18:20 Parkland on Swann, because there was a lot of

21:18:23 cut-through coming through there.

21:18:25 Good or bad, doesn't matter.

21:18:28 It's closed off now.

21:18:29 I think the parkland neighborhood appreciates that

21:18:31 greatly, especially with all the greater intensity on

21:18:35 Howard avenue.

21:18:35 In the SoHo area.

21:18:40 I think that if Bradford has a real problem, I don't

21:18:43 think that this particular lot with 27 spaces and a day

21:18:47 time use is really the problem.




21:18:49 I think that they're crying out for help on this other

21:18:54 issue.

21:18:54 And so I'd love to see us possibly explore that.

21:18:58 It's going to take a little more time.

21:19:00 And a little more effort.

21:19:02 And frankly, in the KRENTEL situation, the bank had to

21:19:05 kick in a little bit because there were costs

21:19:07 associated with closing KRENTEL.

21:19:10 I don't know if the Rudolphs heard me on that.

21:19:14 In the KRENTEL situation, the bank had to kick in a

21:19:18 little bid of money because there were cost associated

21:19:20 with closing off the street.

21:19:22 I don't know what those are.

21:19:24 But I just want to alert you to that as a possibility.

21:19:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Saul-Sena, Councilman

21:19:28 Miranda.

21:19:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just wanted to respond.

21:19:31 I was on Council when we closed off a couple streets

21:19:35 for commercial uses on the south side of Kennedy, when

21:19:38 miss Vizzi's neighborhood did not want the cut-through

21:19:42 traffic.

21:19:42 It worked rather well.




21:19:44 My question's for staff.

21:19:46 And it's based on the fact that I was once a mother and

21:19:51 took the kids to pediatric dentists, are there more

21:19:55 parking spaces required for pediatric than regular

21:19:59 dentist?

21:20:00 >> No, in fact there is not a different parking ratio

21:20:03 for a pediatrician versus a GM, versus a dentist.

21:20:07 Our medical is all grouped under medical, chiropractor,

21:20:10 all that it's all the same.

21:20:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We don't go by specialty?

21:20:16 >>ABBYE FEELEY: No.

21:20:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilmember Miranda?

21:20:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.

21:20:21 I have a tendency to agree with my good friend, John

21:20:25 Dingfelder, that sometimes it is not the location, but

21:20:28 what Devil Rays the location to have the problems.

21:20:30 Yes, I was here and I did close -- maybe Miss Saul-Sena

21:20:35 and others, parkland and other streets to make it more

21:20:40 viable for those who live there.

21:20:42 I was also here when I was chairman and pushed, there

21:20:48 was no area, there was no difference between

21:20:50 residential and medical.




21:20:53 You are not listening too well today.

21:20:59 But anyway, pediatric psychiatrist.

21:21:02 But what I'm saying is that the medical was changed

21:21:07 during our, my chairmanship, because I pushed it with

21:21:13 Glorida Moreda and we made some changes.

21:21:14 I think it was for every thousand, five, six parking

21:21:19 spaces if I recall, five or six.

21:21:21 Why did we do that?

21:21:23 We did that because at any time that you get near a

21:21:26 hospital, what do you have around a hospital?

21:21:32 Doctor's offices.

21:21:33 That's only natural.

21:21:34 There were doctors' office before there was a hospital.

21:21:38 But somehow they start to duplicate because that's

21:21:41 where they do their business at.

21:21:43 And that's only normal.

21:21:45 That's for a reaction, we said there's a reaction.

21:21:48 So the reaction was that the neighborhoods were getting

21:21:51 flooded with parking that they never had before.

21:21:54 So we changed the criteria, now, not coming to anyone's

21:22:00 defense, I believe there is a difference between

21:22:03 medical and dental.




21:22:05 When you go into a medical office, they're booked every

21:22:11 15, 20 minutes.

21:22:12 When I went to the dentist last week, for a little

21:22:16 filling here, I was booked for one hour.

21:22:19 They come, they numb you, they do whatever they got to

21:22:22 do.

21:22:23 He talks to you like it's not going to hurt.

21:22:26 [ Laughter ]

21:22:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: He promises you you're going to walk

21:22:29 out fine.

21:22:29 And you do.

21:22:30 Didn't hurt.

21:22:31 I didn't feel it.

21:22:32 But, it takes a little longer.

21:22:36 Do I want to change it?

21:22:37 I don't believe it should be changed because it gets

21:22:39 more confusing as more laws are put into the books.

21:22:42 But it was done for the protection of the neighborhood.

21:22:47 And it was done for protection of the whole area.

21:22:52 But when you look at this location here, has certainly

21:22:55 got I think even, we had maybe 15, 20 people today.

21:22:59 We had 40 last time.




21:23:00 So at least gotten 50% better I think.

21:23:04 And I'm not saying that jokingly.

21:23:07 But there has been improvements.

21:23:09 There has been the change, remember, that's when the

21:23:11 truck was going to go in and pick up the garbage and

21:23:14 all that kind of stuff.

21:23:15 But I believe what Mr. Dingfelder says makes some, a

21:23:20 lot of sense, not some sense.

21:23:21 I'm not saying he's smart.

21:23:24 I just said he makes a lot of sense.

21:23:26 Let me get all that together.

21:23:30 But the closing of Bradford, I mean that little island

21:23:33 here, no one lives there.

21:23:37 There's a residence here, yes, I agree to it.

21:23:40 But they have, could have ingress and egress through

21:23:46 either Cleveland or -- you got to look at that, see

21:23:50 there's no damage to that individual.

21:23:51 And I think that individual has been there, if I

21:23:54 remember, from the last zoning, came with Moses.

21:23:56 Long time ago.

21:23:58 Long time ago.

21:24:00 I remember that.




21:24:01 So what I'm saying, I don't know what, where this is

21:24:06 going, other than something is going to come to this

21:24:10 piece of property.

21:24:10 And what was stated earlier, if it's not a medical

21:24:14 office, something could come here to the same size or

21:24:19 greater without coming here.

21:24:21 That he just build and do what they want to do.

21:24:25 So, it's -- I don't know if we can ask for a delay

21:24:30 time.

21:24:30 I'm not trying to make everybody come back or anything

21:24:32 like that.

21:24:33 But, I think it's paramount that Bradford be closed.

21:24:39 And if that's closed, there can't be any objections.

21:24:45 I mean, that's how I feel.

21:24:47 Maybe you all feel differently.

21:24:48 But if that's closed, then you're a hundred percent

21:24:51 sure that traffic is not coming to you.

21:24:53 And I believe that what's going on is going on,

21:24:56 because, you know, got them little signs there that

21:24:59 says no parking, five minutes only.

21:25:02 So I agree with Mr. Dingfelder.

21:25:04 I don't know what the petitioner's going to say in




21:25:07 rebuttal.

21:25:07 I don't know what they want to do.

21:25:09 I know it's better than what it was.

21:25:13 Is it perfect?

21:25:14 No.

21:25:15 But let's see where we are at.

21:25:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Lets hear from the petitioner.

21:25:23 >> I don't know how much you want me to go into the

21:25:26 rebuttal.

21:25:27 I'll make a few brief points.

21:25:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Five minutes.

21:25:30 >> Okay.

21:25:30 Thank you.

21:25:31 First, I've heard they like the building across the

21:25:36 street.

21:25:36 The building across the three Street is 300 square feet

21:25:40 smaller than our building.

21:25:41 So I guess it's aesthetic issue.

21:25:44 I think we have an attractive project.

21:25:46 They're entitled to their opinion.

21:25:47 So I'm confused on that point.

21:25:49 There's two buildings, ours is one.




21:25:52 For a dental practice, doesn't make sense to make two

21:25:56 separate buildings.

21:25:57 I work for that guy over there, doesn't work for us.

21:26:00 It depletes the property values, I don't know how an

21:26:06 empty lot increases property values.

21:26:08 I think significant development of $750,000 or more is,

21:26:12 a nice project is certainly going to increase property

21:26:15 values.

21:26:16 Someone said it was mixed use.

21:26:20 It's office space.

21:26:20 Two different types of office space and it's clearly

21:26:23 delineated and separated.

21:26:25 We are not trying to cheat the system.

21:26:27 Do what Mr. Campson did, which was play back and forth.

21:26:30 We are not doing any of that.

21:26:31 We would provide all the spaces required at six per

21:26:36 thousand, which the code did change a number of years

21:26:38 ago from five to six.

21:26:39 We are complying with the six.

21:26:40 Lesley Rudolph, who is the dentist, is going to occupy

21:26:53 the building.

21:26:54 Redstone, a family friend, is the contractor/developer.




21:26:57 Expertise for the project.

21:26:57 We originally did the rezoning based on that.

21:27:00 So, there's no sinister plot here to do one thing and

21:27:05 do another.

21:27:06 Lesley established her practice.

21:27:08 She's going to own the property.

21:27:10 She'll occupy the property.

21:27:11 I heard someone once said let's build 4,000 square foot

21:27:15 of medical.

21:27:17 It is actually more intensive.

21:27:18 32 spaces, not 27.

21:27:20 It brings more traffic.

21:27:22 So, we're happy with what we presented because that's

21:27:25 why we're here.

21:27:26 On the Bradford issue, I think we are amenable to find

21:27:30 out how that works.

21:27:33 Again, we are not on Bradford.

21:27:34 90% of our project is on Henderson.

21:27:38 Our curb cut is on Henderson.

21:27:40 We don't want anyone going on Bradford either.

21:27:43 So, if the city wants to cut Bradford down and I don't

21:27:48 know if we can eliminate that entire three quarter




21:27:50 block, maybe you can do just a little wedge or somehow

21:27:54 stop it, stop it, whatever.

21:27:56 And so that person to the south can still access their

21:28:00 property, we are open to that.

21:28:02 But, frankly, we really think we have a great project.

21:28:06 We worked really hard on it and we think that this

21:28:09 deserve the merit tonight for your approval.

21:28:12 Thank you.

21:28:13 I'm sorry, Lesley wants to make a quick comment too.

21:28:19 >> I just want to clarify that I am the owner of the

21:28:21 property.

21:28:22 The solely owner of the property.

21:28:24 I definitely do have concerns for children and safety.

21:28:27 That's why I'm in the profession I am.

21:28:29 I love working with event I care about their welfare.

21:28:32 Many residents did express the desire for me to plant

21:28:37 trees.

21:28:38 I'm very happy to do that.

21:28:39 I think it will add to my property as well as to

21:28:42 theirs.

21:28:43 And you know, I don't want to reiterate what was said

21:28:46 already.




21:28:47 But I did read the transcripts and review what the

21:28:50 neighbors had to say and do my best to build something

21:28:53 that we could all appreciate and would again add to the

21:28:55 community and service the kids.

21:29:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

21:29:03 Council?

21:29:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We have some transportation people

21:29:07 here.

21:29:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: They're going to hate the idea.

21:29:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: They always do.

21:29:14 It's okay.

21:29:16 I remember them hating every previous one.

21:29:20 But you know what?

21:29:21 It's really worked well.

21:29:22 So the question, Julia, can we City Council ask the

21:29:30 administration to take a positive look at closing

21:29:34 Bradford?

21:29:39 >>JULIA COLE: You can ask the administration to send

21:29:41 the report back to you, as to whether or not it's

21:29:43 feasible.

21:29:44 Obviously there would be a cost associated with that.

21:29:46 Obviously, it would be with an issue in terms of




21:29:50 management and all those kinds of issues.

21:29:52 You certainly have the right to make that request of

21:29:54 transportation and the administration.

21:29:56 Come back and give that you level of information.

21:29:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And we don't need the Army corps of

21:30:01 engineer response.

21:30:02 We could do something that's, you know, appropriate to

21:30:06 what an 18-foot street.

21:30:09 >>JULIA COLE: I mean, they would have to opine as to

21:30:12 what they could do, what the costs would be, with the

21:30:15 alternatives are.

21:30:16 That would really be within their purview.

21:30:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'd like to move we continue this

21:30:21 the for 30 days until we have opportunity to hear back

21:30:24 from the administration.

21:30:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, the problem with that, the

21:30:28 applicant has asked for a vote tonight.

21:30:30 Not a continuance.

21:30:31 That was his request.

21:30:32 So, unless he is agreeable to a 30 continuance, then we

21:30:37 have to vote up or down his request.

21:30:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: He's conferring.




21:30:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Seems to me.

21:30:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, there are two issues.

21:30:47 One is the closing of the street.

21:30:48 Other issue is, I'm hearing some folks, they like the

21:30:52 building across the street better.

21:30:54 I understand that.

21:30:58 But I'm just telling you what was said.

21:31:00 Okay?

21:31:09 >> Council, my concern again is we're taking completely

21:31:13 separate issue.

21:31:13 I understand.

21:31:16 An issue of traffic when we are not on Bradford.

21:31:19 We never have been on Bradford.

21:31:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The question is, are you amenable for a

21:31:24 30 day continuance?

21:31:25 That's the question.

21:31:30 >> Council, again, it would be either the -- if you

21:31:34 wanted it in the evening, it would either be the

21:31:36 17th of June, you have an evening meeting, or the

21:31:40 10th of June.

21:31:41 And then you go to July 27th.

21:31:51 >> Three weeks.




21:31:54 >> I understand.

21:31:56 I have discussed with it my client.

21:31:57 And we're amiable to a continuance if we can actually

21:32:02 get some resolution to this.

21:32:03 What we are not amiable is wholesale redesign of the

21:32:06 project.

21:32:07 What we want to do is find a solution on Bradford.

21:32:09 If we can curtail this continuance, I don't know, able

21:32:14 to do that again, the it's just a question.

21:32:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Curtail?

21:32:19 >> To identify a specific issue, which I believe is

21:32:22 Bradford and traffic.

21:32:23 And we specifically addressed that with staff and the

21:32:26 neighborhood together.

21:32:28 On that issue.

21:32:28 Absolutely, we would be extremely happy to, for a

21:32:33 continuance.

21:32:35 However, I personally would prefer not to open up the

21:32:38 entire can of worms, because I don't think it's

21:32:41 necessary.

21:32:41 But with that being said, we are open to a 30 day

21:32:44 continuance.




21:32:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

21:32:45 30 days continuance.

21:32:47 Now, my concern is, Julia come again.

21:32:51 My concern is this.

21:32:53 Administration says no, we're not going to close it

21:32:56 off.

21:33:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We got to deal with it.

21:33:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's be realistic.

21:33:05 Administration could come back and say no, we're not

21:33:08 going to close it off.

21:33:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Then we'd have to make a decision.

21:33:13 >>GWEN MILLER: My concern is they already have the

21:33:14 traffic there.

21:33:15 Is this office building, they're still going to have

21:33:20 the traffic.

21:33:22 >>JULIA COLE: If I could take a moment to put this in

21:33:24 perspective where he we're legally.

21:33:26 You have a property that has a legal allowability for

21:33:30 office use.

21:33:31 So when you are looking at this you are not looking at

21:33:34 this as if nothing is there, or there's a residential

21:33:38 use there.




21:33:39 So what you have to look at is the intensity of adding

21:33:43 the medical use.

21:33:44 When it comes to the traffic question, that really

21:33:47 seems to me to be the question that everybody is

21:33:51 struggling with, on this issue of Bradford, unless

21:33:55 there's some kind of showing that there's going to be

21:33:57 traffic coming from this site, specifically going on to

21:34:00 Bradford, I am concerned that we would be making a

21:34:04 decision based upon something the administration would

21:34:07 want to do or not want to do, to deny something when

21:34:11 there is nothing in the record showing that this site

21:34:14 is generating traffic with the increase of medical on

21:34:18 to Bradford.

21:34:19 Now, I can't say that that information doesn't exist.

21:34:22 I'm just saying there's nothing in the record tonight.

21:34:25 Something you could consider doing.

21:34:27 And I throw this out there for discussion, because I

21:34:32 would caution against denying on the basis of this

21:34:35 Bradford street issue without additional evidence.

21:34:39 You could hear it on first reading.

21:34:41 Ask for the transportation department to add further

21:34:44 information in the record, second reading, A, the




21:34:47 increase of medical, how much the traffic count could

21:34:50 increase.

21:34:51 B, whether or not there's any additional traffic

21:34:53 generated from the site that ends up on Bradford.

21:34:56 And then, as a separate conversation, given the

21:35:00 testimony tonight, given the concerns, whether or not

21:35:03 there are some traffic calming and or road closure

21:35:07 issues the administration can deal with.

21:35:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilmember Caetano.

21:35:15 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a

21:35:17 motion for approval, based, between the first --

21:35:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Got to close the public hearing.

21:35:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You have to read the, the ordinance.

21:35:27 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: What my motion is, Mr. Chairman,

21:35:29 to approve it for the first reading.

21:35:31 And between the second reading, see if we can close

21:35:34 Bradford.

21:35:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

21:35:42 >>JULIA COLE: Be very careful, we are not going to make

21:35:44 a decision on this rezoning based upon whether or not

21:35:47 the transportation department is going to close

21:35:49 Bradford.




21:35:49 What with I'm suggesting is between first and second

21:35:52 reading, the transportation department can come back a

21:35:54 second reading and discuss this project -- if they even

21:35:59 can do.

21:35:59 I don't know if they can.

21:36:01 But how this project with the increase of medical, what

21:36:04 impact it has on Bradford and if there's more trips

21:36:07 generated by the increased medical, and there's more

21:36:10 concern that those trips could end up on Bradford, that

21:36:13 would be a valid basis for denial.

21:36:15 Because that is where you are legally in terms of the

21:36:18 analysis.

21:36:19 As a separate question, you can ask the administration

21:36:22 to give you information relating to whether or not, not

21:36:26 withstanding this project or not, Bradford can be

21:36:29 closed or there's other traffic calming information.

21:36:32 But I really think we'd be putting ourselves in a, in a

21:36:38 quagmire if administration comes back, says they won't

21:36:41 close Bradford, and then you decide to deny this on

21:36:44 second reading.

21:36:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

21:36:47 Councilmember Dingfelder, councilmember Saul-Sena.




21:36:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Personally, I don't have enough

21:36:52 information at this point tonight to vote.

21:36:55 Okay.

21:36:57 I believe there's an opportunity for the city to

21:37:01 participate in the mitigation of traffic from this

21:37:05 site, by doing what, what I think it sound like a lot

21:37:10 of Council would hope the administration would

21:37:13 consider.

21:37:13 I also would urge Mr. Shuler to use his expertise to

21:37:19 jump in there and if he's not a traffic engineer to get

21:37:23 one, and to work with our folks to find out what would

21:37:26 be involved in doing it.

21:37:28 It's not like it's without precedent.

21:37:30 We have done it before.

21:37:31 And we can do it again.

21:37:33 This isn't -- you know, you look at this.

21:37:37 It's not rocket science.

21:37:38 It doesn't close off this neighborhood.

21:37:40 You know, if anybody actually wants to cut through

21:37:44 there, they can come down a block further and make, you

21:37:47 know, and do Cleveland.

21:37:48 So, it's not going to protect the neighborhood and




21:37:51 we're not going to shut Bradford and Cleveland.

21:37:54 But, I think it's viable.

21:37:55 And I think it's worth the 20 something days to get

21:38:00 there.

21:38:01 So, you know, Julia, with all your concerns and

21:38:05 warnings, which I think are totally valid, I think it's

21:38:08 worth the wait and let's see where it goes.

21:38:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The attorney has advised us, let us

21:38:14 remind us, Council, and I appreciate Council

21:38:18 Dingfelder, jewel crashes I need applicant to hear

21:38:21 meet.

21:38:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Could I finish my thought then?

21:38:25 Because maybe I wasn't clear.

21:38:26 And you have said this in the past.

21:38:32 If I'm forced to vote on this tonight, okay, then I've

21:38:35 heard enough testimony to vote against it.

21:38:37 Because I think the traffic through this neighborhood

21:38:39 coming from this project, okay, is potentially harmful

21:38:43 to this neighborhood period.

21:38:45 I think it needs to be mitigated one way or the other.

21:38:48 And I'd like to see if we could try and mitigate it.

21:38:51 If we can't, then, I'll see where it goes a month from




21:38:55 now.

21:38:59 >> If I could ask this petitioner would be willing to

21:39:02 confirm this on the record.

21:39:03 They have indicated to me they would be willing to take

21:39:06 a 30 day continuance to discuss the traffic issue

21:39:09 further with the transportation department.

21:39:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You stated that earlier.

21:39:12 If he wants to say it again.

21:39:14 >>JULIA COLE: Well, I think he kind of said it and

21:39:16 didn't say it.

21:39:17 So if he's willing to take the 30 day continuance and

21:39:21 willing to say it on the record, would probably be the,

21:39:23 probably be appropriate for us to go ahead and consider

21:39:26 it a continuance.

21:39:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?

21:39:32 >> I'll state again, we are happy for, or okay with

21:39:36 taking a 30 day continuance to exam the traffic portion

21:39:40 of this project.

21:39:41 Absolutely.

21:39:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

21:39:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: If I may, I'd like to hear from miss

21:39:48 Vizzi, who was there for two, at least three of the




21:39:52 previous times we closed streets.

21:39:53 Can I ask her to just give a citizen's perspective?

21:39:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, the only problem with that,

21:40:01 opportunity was afforded for the public to speak.

21:40:04 Miss Vizzi chose not to speak.

21:40:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: But I'm asking her a specific

21:40:08 question based on her experience as a citizen.

21:40:13 >> I would caution against that, because that's outside

21:40:16 the scope of this area that you're dealing on tonight.

21:40:22 This particular petition.

21:40:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you for your help.

21:40:26 Okay.

21:40:28 There is a motion by councilmember Dingfelder to

21:40:31 continue this for 30 days.

21:40:33 And then that date would be July -- June 17th.

21:40:38 >> At 6:00 p.m.

21:40:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: June 17th at 6:00 p.m.

21:40:42 The motion is to continue to allow for review.

21:40:53 We have a hearing June 17th on our calendar.

21:41:04 >> Community development block grant.

21:41:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

21:41:15 >> On the 17th is the community development block grant




21:41:18 and appeal hearing on the Barrio Latino Commission

21:41:23 decision.

21:41:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Are you guys not available that

21:41:30 night?

21:41:31 17th?

21:41:33 Or you want to do the 10th?

21:41:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Didn't we continue something to the

21:41:37 17th already?

21:41:39 >>GWEN MILLER: It was the 10th.

21:41:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So then it goes to the 10th of June.

21:41:43 6:00 p.m.

21:41:44 That is the motion.

21:41:46 All in favor signify by saying aye.

21:41:50 Opposes?

21:41:51 Okay.

21:41:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Going to have a wonderful evening on

21:41:57 the tenth.

21:41:58 Third one got continued tonight to the 10th.

21:42:18 >> The next item on your agenda this evening is V10-85.

21:42:22 It's located 3008, 3010 --

21:42:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Excuse me.

21:42:27 If we can hold the conversation down, I would




21:42:29 appreciate that.

21:42:30 Council is still in session.

21:42:31 >> East Lake Avenue.

21:42:32 3703, 3707, 3717 North 30th Street.

21:42:38 The special use request is for a place of religious

21:42:42 assembly.

21:42:43 Council, this case was before you, this is another one

21:42:46 that was in '09.

21:42:49 Oh, this was V08-62 for a 500 seat assembly.

21:42:56 And they are seeking to add a fellowship hall.

21:42:59 >> Tony Garcia, Planning Commission staff.

21:43:10 I'm going to give you all a break.

21:43:12 This is just an expansion.

21:43:13 Planning Commission staff on the proposed request

21:43:15 consistent with the comprehensive plan.

21:43:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.

21:43:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Good, Mr. Tony Garcia.

21:43:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Best one you did all night.

21:43:25 [ Laughter ]

21:43:29 >>ABBYE FEELEY: This is for an expansion and addition

21:43:32 of a 9,837 square foot building for fellowship uses.

21:43:37 The number of seats is going to stay the same.




21:43:40 So the parking is staying the same.

21:43:42 We have two revisions, I provided them on the revision

21:43:47 sheet to reduce the required buffer along the southeast

21:43:49 corner from ten feet to five feet with the existing six

21:43:53 feet chain link fence and label and chain link fence on

21:43:59 the property.

21:43:59 With those two modifications made, staff would find

21:44:03 this petition consistent.

21:44:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

21:44:06 Petitioner?

21:44:12 >> I'm Joseph Belt, petitioner and I'm also

21:44:17 representing the Church Manifestation.

21:44:19 We request your approval.

21:44:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here in opposition?

21:44:26 >> We agree -- anyone here in opposition?

21:44:31 >>GWEN MILLER: We have one.

21:44:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

21:44:32 Let me hear -- come on down.

21:44:40 >> My name is Thomas Akins.

21:44:45 I live 3106 East Lake Avenue.

21:44:49 Right next door to the church.

21:44:50 I do have petition signed by some of the neighbors.




21:44:55 And the neighbors have petitioners have two concerns.

21:45:01 One is parking.

21:45:04 The problem now with parking, when they have some

21:45:13 affairs, those members park anywhere they seem fit.

21:45:18 Run across lawns, very disrespectful.

21:45:23 Another concern is when they have musical programs,

21:45:27 that music is everywhere.

21:45:29 Cannot hear anything in the neighborhood.

21:45:33 The petitioners, that's another one of my concerns.

21:45:40 I don't see noise, but the sound.

21:45:43 And although I'm a contractor myself, and normally when

21:45:50 you put up a church something like that, sound barrier,

21:45:56 put up a concrete fence, not a chain Ling fence.

21:45:59 When I built buildings, they made me put a concrete

21:46:09 block fences, not chain link fences.

21:46:13 I built building on Martin Luther King.

21:46:16 That's another concern.

21:46:18 Another concern is all the additional, wouldn't that

21:46:24 affect the retention pond?

21:46:30 Wouldn't that decrease the parking spaces?

21:46:37 Like I said, I have petitioners sign this petition.

21:46:45 That he do not oppose to the addition.




21:46:47 Of the church, which I do not oppose to.

21:46:51 But, where will they park at?

21:46:54 They park on my yard, my neighbor's yard.

21:46:58 They break peoples sprinkler systems.

21:47:01 Like I say, when they have must Cal programs, are they

21:47:06 going to put up a concrete fence?

21:47:08 Chain link fence, that's for the church to park who

21:47:17 built that.

21:47:18 Those are my concerns.

21:47:21 I do have, like I said, I do have petitioners sign this

21:47:27 petition.

21:47:28 If you all care to look at it.

21:47:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The petitioners are opposed to the

21:47:32 construction?

21:47:34 >> They do not oppose.

21:47:35 They are not opposed to the church.

21:47:39 But they have some concerns.

21:47:40 The concern is parking and noise.

21:47:47 If they can resolve that they would not oppose the

21:47:56 addition.

21:47:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can you pass the petitions up?

21:48:02 >>GWEN MILLER: Next?




21:48:07 >> Good evening, Councilmembers.

21:48:16 My name is Catherine Walton, and I am executive

21:48:22 administrator for Manifestations worldwide.

21:48:25 This is our congregational life center that we are

21:48:28 proposing for the Church of Manifestation.

21:48:32 I know Mr. Akin personally from volunteering in excess

21:48:38 of 70 to 80 hours a week.

21:48:41 At my church.

21:48:42 We have security for every event that's held and even

21:48:50 during our regular services, that park cars.

21:48:53 As long as I have been there, I have never seen anyone

21:48:59 park in his yard.

21:49:02 And I think I have missed three services and maybe six

21:49:05 years or so.

21:49:06 We propose to purchase as the residents will sell or

21:49:12 donate to us, all of the property from East Lake to

21:49:18 Glendale back to 34th street and back over to Lake.

21:49:21 So we have a plan for parking of which we have

21:49:26 purchased one of the lots from the city.

21:49:28 One of the infill spots there that we also use as well

21:49:32 for parking.

21:49:33 To date, we have had no residence to come forth to




21:49:38 complain of parking, or vandalizing of property or

21:49:42 anything.

21:49:42 As a matter of fact, we are in partnership with the

21:49:46 church immediately in front of our facility where we

21:49:49 share parking in the parking lots of one another when

21:49:53 there's overflow.

21:49:54 So, I don't perceive that we'll run into parking

21:49:59 problems because we are trying to propose the purchase

21:50:03 of the properties right within our neighborhood.

21:50:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

21:50:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can I ask a question?

21:50:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Ma'am.

21:50:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I was wondering, the gentleman

21:50:18 brought up two issues.

21:50:20 One was instead of a wooden fence, masonry wall, which

21:50:23 is the usual thing that's required.

21:50:26 The bad news, it's more expensive.

21:50:28 But the good news is it, it is not required?

21:50:31 They are asking for a waiver.

21:50:33 So I figured.

21:50:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: But that's got to do with land -- it

21:50:37 doesn't have to do with the fence or transportation.




21:50:39 That's not the issue.

21:50:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Chairman, on number three, under

21:50:46 waivers.

21:50:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You may be look at the wrong area.

21:50:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Maybe then I need to ask staff.

21:50:55 >> They are required a ten foot landscape buffer.

21:50:58 And that waiver says they want to waive down from that

21:51:00 ten foot landscape buffer to a five foot buffer with a

21:51:03 fence.

21:51:04 A use group A to a use group B is a ten foot planted

21:51:10 landscape buffer.

21:51:11 So they are not required the masonry wall.

21:51:13 But they are saying they can't provide the ten feet of

21:51:16 planting, so they'd like to shrink it down to five feet

21:51:19 with a wall, which provides that opacity that the

21:51:22 larger ten foot landscape would have provided.

21:51:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you for the clarification.

21:51:27 The other waiver I read, waiver number one, was to

21:51:29 reduce the required number of parking spaces from 150

21:51:34 to 99, which is a very significant reduction.

21:51:38 And I just wondered if you could address that.

21:51:43 In terms of, I mean, that's 33%.




21:51:49 >>ABBYE FEELEY: There is currently a special use on

21:51:51 this property for a place of religious assembly with

21:51:54 that waiver already approved.

21:51:56 That is not a new waiver under this request.

21:51:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you for the clarification.

21:52:01 >> We do own two other properties adjacent to our

21:52:06 church facility, which we do park there as well.

21:52:09 And the lot that we purchased from the City of Tampa.

21:52:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

21:52:13 Thank you very much.

21:52:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Did anybody mention noise?

21:52:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, let me just speak, I'm very

21:52:19 familiar with the area.

21:52:20 Right across the railroad track there.

21:52:24 Then you have the rec center right next to that.

21:52:28 Then you have friendship Baptist church.

21:52:30 Do you own the other small church?

21:52:34 All right.

21:52:35 So, what you have here is churches in this area with

21:52:38 one park and recreation center owned by the city.

21:52:43 Number of churches there.

21:52:45 That's all that's there.




21:52:46 On both sides.

21:52:47 Except for one house on the corner.

21:52:49 And apartments in the back.

21:52:52 I guess the issue though is, what's before us, is

21:53:00 really not noise issue.

21:53:01 The issue before us is the granting of the fellowship

21:53:06 hall.

21:53:06 I can also tell you that if a large at the rec center,

21:53:18 traffic could spill over.

21:53:19 Or if all the churches are meeting at one time, also

21:53:23 that generates a lot of, you know, parking around the

21:53:27 area.

21:53:28 But I do know they have quite a bit of considerable

21:53:33 parking that's there, grass is not paved, grass area.

21:53:38 I guess I will just only ask if they would just be more

21:53:42 considerate in terms of their, the noise issue to the

21:53:46 neighbors.

21:53:50 And the parking issue, not issue, a waiver has already

21:53:54 been granted for that, so that's not even on the table.

21:53:57 Buffer, they would meet the requirements based on what

21:53:59 Miss Feeley has given us in terms of revision.

21:54:02 Soy, I guess, I guess Council, I guess we need to hear




21:54:08 from the applicant.

21:54:13 >>GWEN MILLER: We have another speaker.

21:54:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Come on, sir.

21:54:17 I'm sorry.

21:54:17 >> My name is Rick Del Rio, I have been sworn in.

21:54:21 I am retired from the City of Tampa as the chief

21:54:25 building and site inspector.

21:54:27 I have been working with the reverend on this

21:54:31 fellowship hall for free.

21:54:33 I have been very impressed with this operation.

21:54:37 And I the tell you, that if parking is the worst

21:54:42 problem that we have from a churches being active at

21:54:47 the same time, I think we have been blessed.

21:54:49 I was very impressed with the church from the

21:54:55 beginning.

21:54:56 I asked a question.

21:54:58 Across the front area, on the inside of the church, it

21:55:02 says Manifestation.

21:55:03 And I was very curious what he meant by Manifestation.

21:55:08 And I'm also retired from the Air Force reserve.

21:55:13 So I appreciate the military.

21:55:16 Manifestation, he says, is what they promote, which is




21:55:24 be all that you can be.

21:55:26 Just like the Army.

21:55:28 Their goal is to develop people.

21:55:33 I have seen firsthand, I have been working with the

21:55:36 church for two years now.

21:55:39 I've seen firsthand where they're pulling people and

21:55:42 helping them.

21:55:43 They're giving people who have no faith or little

21:55:46 faith, faith in their future.

21:55:48 They are giving them hope.

21:55:50 They are not turning anybody away.

21:55:52 I walked in there one day and I had a problem.

21:55:56 The reverend Jones right away, Dr. Jones, right away

21:56:03 sensed that I had a problem, and tried, and did help

21:56:07 me.

21:56:08 Part of the original PD was a building that was

21:57:03 supposed to be erected there that was a modular unit.

21:57:09 Let's face it, a trailer.

21:57:11 Okay, that's gone away.

21:57:12 That's going to be parking and that's going to be the

21:57:14 underground storage is going to be.

21:57:16 Don't ever be a building there.




21:57:17 Because you're not going to be able to build on top of

21:57:21 the underground storage.

21:57:22 And there was also a very large gazebo that was part of

21:57:26 that PD.

21:57:27 Which is going away.

21:57:28 So, the addition of this fellowship hall does not

21:57:34 increase the attendance to the sanctuary.

21:57:38 The sanctuary is staying the same.

21:57:41 What it's doing is providing services to the people of

21:57:46 the neighborhood.

21:57:46 It services the government.

21:57:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That means your time is up, sir.

21:57:54 >> I'm just saying he is doing something, the city

21:57:56 can't afford to pay or the government can't afford.

21:58:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'll tell pastor Jones you delivered a

21:58:03 wonderful sermon tonight.

21:58:04 Okay.

21:58:06 The applicant, you want to present anything else?

21:58:10 Again, I just want to say to Mr. Akins, I think the

21:58:14 church will be very amenable to your concern and issue

21:58:17 tonight.

21:58:17 I know Dr. Jones personally.




21:58:20 I'm familiar with that area.

21:58:21 My church is right down the street from there.

21:58:26 There's a lot of churches in that area.

21:58:28 And generally churches is a complement to the

21:58:32 neighborhood.

21:58:32 So I think that hearing from the administrator that

21:58:37 they will certainly, Mr. Akins, be cognizant, aware of

21:58:41 your concerns and issue.

21:58:42 I think the traffic, or the parking issue, they have

21:58:46 already addressed that.

21:58:47 And so, I think we can pretty much close this.

21:58:52 >> Mr. Chairman, you have plenty of parking in your

21:58:54 church?

21:58:55 >> I could use some more, but yes, I have quite a bit

21:58:57 of parking.

21:58:58 I need some more, yeah.

21:58:59 You know, when recession set in, more folks come to

21:59:03 church.

21:59:03 Okay.

21:59:06 All in favor signify by saying aye.

21:59:10 Opposes? Okay.

21:59:13 Councilmember Miller, you want to read.




21:59:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Before I read, I'd like to include all

21:59:26 the waivers that need to be added.

21:59:30 >> There's a revision sheet with two bullets on it.

21:59:34 >>GWEN MILLER: An ordinance approving a special use

21:59:36 permit S-2, approving a place of religious assembly in

21:59:40 an RS-50 residential single-family and CN commercial

21:59:45 neighborhood zoning district in the general vicinity of

21:59:47 3008, 3010, and 3201 East Lake Avenue and 3703, 3707

21:59:55 and 3717, North 30th Street in the City of Tampa,

21:59:58 Florida, as more particularly described in section one

22:00:01 here, providing an effective date.

22:00:04 >> Second.

22:00:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moves and second.

22:00:05 Yes, sir?

22:00:06 >> Mr. Chairman, I'm sorry to interrupt.

22:00:08 But you did state you knew some of the parties that

22:00:10 were involved.

22:00:11 And your church is very -- located very close by.

22:00:14 It's my opinion based on what I've heard, that this

22:00:18 would not inure to your special private gain or loss,

22:00:21 and it's my opinion it's absolutely appropriate --

22:00:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'm not a member of the church.




22:00:25 I know a lot of pastors in the city.

22:00:29 And I have not had any conversation with anybody from

22:00:32 the church, or anybody as far as that matter.

22:00:36 However, whenever the project, I try to go by and visit

22:00:40 the site.

22:00:43 Thank you.

22:00:43 All in favor signify by saying aye.

22:00:47 Opposes?

22:00:49 Okay.

22:00:50 >> Motion carried with Mulhern being absent.

22:00:52 Second reading and adoption will be on June 24 at 9:30

22:00:58 a.m.

22:01:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This is our last item for the evening.

22:01:42 >> I believe that Councilmember Miller referred to that

22:01:47 motion.

22:01:47 Council, the last case before you this evening is

22:01:57 V10-103, it's located at 106 and 108 Renellie Drive.

22:02:04 This was before you on April 8th.

22:02:08 And I don't believe that we got to make any of our

22:02:13 presentations on the case.

22:02:15 It is a request for off street commercial parking.

22:02:20 And I'll let Mr. Garcia.




22:02:32 >>TONY GARCIA: Everyone's just a little bit tired, I

22:02:35 guess.

22:02:36 Tony Garcia, Planning Commission staff.

22:02:38 I have been sworn.

22:02:39 Several comments regarding.

22:02:43 This is the only one not in the central Tampa district

22:02:48 this evening.

22:02:49 This one is in the South Tampa district.

22:02:52 It's right about here.

22:02:53 So it's right on the edge of this particular district.

22:02:59 So your South Tampa district is not really a district

22:03:02 that we're focusing redevelopment and regrowth but it

22:03:06 does allow opportunities for infill development and

22:03:09 complementary development or ancillary development.

22:03:12 Which is the case right here in this particular

22:03:15 situation.

22:03:15 The request is for a parking lot to support the

22:03:24 commercial use, which is located right here on north

22:03:27 moody Boulevard.

22:03:28 This is located in the general vicinity of the

22:03:30 southeast corner of the intersection of Westshore

22:03:34 Boulevard and Kennedy Boulevard.




22:03:35 So you have you -- this is regional mixed use 100 right

22:03:41 over here.

22:03:42 I think we all know this is -- right over here, Taco

22:03:47 Bell is across the street.

22:03:50 I think there's a Burger King down the street too.

22:03:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: A new place is Gogos.

22:03:56 >> I haven't been to Gogos yet.

22:03:59 Anyway, the request is for this particular site, the

22:04:03 site along Renellie directly interfaces the loading

22:04:10 areas for this shopping center, which has been in

22:04:12 existence for quite a long time, but I think

22:04:15 retrofitted 10, 15 years ago.

22:04:18 15 years ago?

22:04:19 More or less.

22:04:19 So there was a lot of older use of the old Kash 'n

22:04:23 Karry was here.

22:04:24 A tuck see dough shop down here, a variety of things.

22:04:27 So anyway, this has been around for quite a long time,

22:04:30 probably 40, 45 years.

22:04:31 Mr. Miranda probably remembers what was there 45 years

22:04:37 ago at least, I'm sure.

22:04:38 So, we have got all these commercial uses over here.




22:04:41 There is a bank over here.

22:04:42 That I think Miss Feeley is going to speak to.

22:04:45 Generally speaking.

22:04:47 And of course we have the use over here, which is

22:04:50 proposed for a parking area.

22:04:53 You have one residential use to the south over here.

22:04:56 It's the site directly abuts.

22:04:58 I think it's in proximity to another commercial use,

22:05:01 residential use to the east over here, but it is, it's

22:05:06 a heavily treed and canopied area.

22:05:09 A little cluster of the site.

22:05:12 You can see this the vacant area being proposed to be

22:05:15 used for ancillary parking.

22:05:17 There's some parking in there right now.

22:05:19 Basically the uses that is being requested is

22:05:24 consistent even within the residential six lane

22:05:27 category, to allow ancillary parking for that use to

22:05:30 the north.

22:05:31 They have to meet of course the proper buffer

22:05:34 requirements.

22:05:34 If they are adjacent to any commercial uses or of

22:05:37 course residential uses.




22:05:38 Planning Commission staffer finds the proposed request

22:05:40 consistent with the comprehensive plan.

22:05:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Mr. Garcia.

22:05:45 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Abbye Feeley, land development.

22:05:47 As Mr. Garcia, stated this is a request for a parking

22:05:52 special use for parking lot.

22:05:54 First thing I'd like to do, on the waivers listed in

22:05:57 the staff report, first one is allow non-residential

22:06:00 access to a local street.

22:06:01 That can be removed.

22:06:02 This property only has access to a local street,

22:06:04 therefore a waiver is not necessary.

22:06:06 Under this request.

22:06:07 There are two other waivers and that is to allow the

22:06:13 parking area to extend more than 100 feet into the

22:06:15 surrounding residential property abutting the closest

22:06:18 boundary.

22:06:19 And the second is to reduce landscape buffer from

22:06:22 15-foot with six foot masonry wall to 15-foot with six

22:06:25 foot wood fence along the south.

22:06:27 Here is the zoning atlas.

22:06:33 As you can see, Renellie to the west, this is




22:06:37 Westshore, one street over to the west, Kennedy to the

22:06:40 north.

22:06:41 Trask to the east, and Cleveland to the south.

22:06:43 As you can see, predominantly CG.

22:06:47 The CG comes all the way back to Cleveland, as many of

22:06:50 you might be familiar, that is Panera bread.

22:06:54 And the shopping center with that.

22:06:56 Along Kennedy, there is commercial general.

22:06:59 Uses there, as well, which this lot will serve, this

22:07:05 strip center here that has a mix of uses.

22:07:08 Here is the aerial again.

22:07:17 You can see a portion of this is being used for

22:07:21 parking.

22:07:22 Dumpsters currently located on this property.

22:07:25 The dumpster through this application will be enhanced,

22:07:28 placed in an enclosure.

22:07:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Where is the dumpster now?

22:07:36 >>ABBYE FEELEY: It's under this tree.

22:07:38 I'll show you.

22:07:39 I stopped by this morning after I found out I'd be

22:07:43 handling cases this evening.

22:07:44 I'll show you my pick the tours.




22:07:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Dumpster is pretty far from the

22:07:49 residential right now.

22:07:51 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Yes.

22:07:51 Here's a picture of the site.

22:07:56 Looking downed Kennedy -- down Kennedy.

22:08:08 The sun was just coming up this morning.

22:08:17 This is a picture, picture of the site.

22:08:21 That tree is going to be retained.

22:08:23 This is looking northeast.

22:08:28 Dumpster right now is right under there.

22:08:31 This is a picture of the house immediately to the

22:08:35 south.

22:08:36 And one down from there.

22:08:41 This is looking up Renellie toward Kennedy.

22:08:48 Looking immediately across the street.

22:08:58 Actually I have another couple interesting ones from

22:09:02 that perspective.

22:09:03 But here is the back of the existing shopping center

22:09:07 that this will serve.

22:09:08 The sun was beating down on me.

22:09:10 This is the Gogos Greek restaurant.

22:09:14 Let me find that one.




22:09:19 This is directly looking west.

22:09:23 And let me find the one where the one today is, because

22:09:28 I swore I took it.

22:09:29 This is the dumpsters on-site right now.

22:09:42 And it's in the parking area.

22:09:44 Part of this application will actually go into an

22:10:00 enclosure, as you can see on your site plans.

22:10:02 If I can put this up.

22:10:31 Where it was today is over in this area.

22:10:35 And it's going to be moved back to the back of the

22:10:48 property.

22:10:48 And placed in an enclosure.

22:10:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Right next to the single-family

22:10:57 house?

22:10:59 Right?

22:11:01 >>ABBYE FEELEY: It's 40 feet.

22:11:02 38 -- 31.8 to the start of the parking, so, it's

22:11:08 probably about 32 or 33 feet from that residential

22:11:13 property line.

22:11:13 You can see the dimension to the start of the parking

22:11:17 is 31.8 on the plan.

22:11:18 And then you're going to go a little bit further and




22:11:21 then it will be in a required masonry wall type

22:11:25 enclosure.

22:11:25 There are some modifications and final revisions that

22:11:30 are required for this.

22:11:32 Staff did find it inconsistent.

22:11:34 Based on those items.

22:11:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do you want to testify about the

22:11:42 noise of a dumpster being dumped at 6:00 in the

22:11:45 morning, 40 feet from your bedroom?

22:11:50 >>ABBYE FEELEY: No.

22:11:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't think 40 feet is very

22:11:52 significant.

22:11:53 And frankly, when the dumptruck comes along, and bangs

22:11:57 it up here like this, okay, which those dumptrucks do,

22:12:01 at 6:00 in the morning, then an enclosure doesn't help.

22:12:04 And I speak from experience.

22:12:11 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Mr. Dingfelder, I knew, given our

22:12:16 discussion at the beginning of last hearing, that there

22:12:19 were some concerns about that.

22:12:20 That's part of the reason why I took that picture from

22:12:23 the south end of Renellie looking north.

22:12:26 I counted ten dumpsters, the majority not in closer,




22:12:30 very close.

22:12:31 I knew that was of a concern to you.

22:12:34 So, I think in relationship to this, it is an

22:12:39 improvement, that it's being placed there.

22:12:41 I think part of what was going on in the design of this

22:12:43 site was retention of some trees and given the turning

22:12:47 radius of the truck this was the preferred location.

22:12:51 But I can let him speak to that further.

22:12:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't think he lives there either.

22:12:57 Thank you.

22:13:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Madam Chair, on the letter I

22:13:05 received.

22:13:05 They say here that certain times of the week, they're

22:13:15 waken up by the dumpster being moved at 4:00 in the

22:13:18 morning.

22:13:19 I thought that the regulations call for 6:00 in the

22:13:25 morning.

22:13:26 But I'm going to tell you I know they pick up at 4:30

22:13:30 in the morning because I went through that even with my

22:13:32 wife's sickness.

22:13:34 Picking it up at 4:30 in the morning.

22:13:36 One door from my house.




22:13:39 >> Vince Reynolds, solid waste.

22:13:42 That was brought up on the April 8th meeting, by

22:13:45 Mr. Dingfelder.

22:13:46 And April 9th, I confirmed that with operations.

22:13:50 They assured me that the collection time is no earlier,

22:13:53 between 5:15 and 5:45.

22:13:56 Only because you cannot get down Renellie any time

22:14:00 after 6:00 a.m. because delivery trucks.

22:14:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: My question is, what does the code

22:14:07 say?

22:14:07 >> According to the noise ordinance for the City of

22:14:13 Tampa, the solid waste utilities department is exempt

22:14:17 from noise.

22:14:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Exempt?

22:14:20 >> Yep.

22:14:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You know, that code must change, or

22:14:25 either I died and don't know it.

22:14:27 Because I always swore it was 6:00 in the morning.

22:14:30 >> Currently states --

22:14:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: How can we exempt ourselves?

22:14:35 >> States 7:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m.

22:14:37 And down further in the noise ordinance, it states.




22:14:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It was an exception we gave years

22:14:47 back in construction.

22:14:48 When something had to be built in a rush, and we agreed

22:14:52 to -- I believe starting as early as 7:00 in the

22:14:56 morning, and even on weekends, starting at 9:00 or

22:15:00 10:00.

22:15:00 I remember that.

22:15:01 And I don't know what happened.

22:15:02 I guess that was an emergency thing that happened.

22:15:05 When we had to do things in the city.

22:15:08 But I don't recall that at all.

22:15:09 That we were exempt.

22:15:23 >> The construction issue you're talking about may not

22:15:25 be in the noise ordinance.

22:15:27 There may be something in chapter five.

22:15:29 Off the top of my head relating to when you can start

22:15:32 construction.

22:15:33 There's an opportunity for the building official to

22:15:35 allow construction to go beyond that time in caves

22:15:38 emergency, or you know, if there's other accommodations

22:15:41 made, that's not part of the noise ordinance.

22:15:43 What Vince is reading from is the noise ordinance.




22:15:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I think when we did the stadium,

22:15:48 building the stadium.

22:16:01 >> I mean, it's accurate reflection of what's in the

22:16:04 noise ordinance as it pertains to when noise allowed

22:16:09 could occur.

22:16:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: City can pick up all night long,

22:16:17 because, because the city is the city.

22:16:23 >> Like I said, operations tries to start 5:00.

22:16:28 They don't go all night long.

22:16:32 Downtown does get picked up at night, but not all night

22:16:35 long.

22:16:36 Also the required setback from residential to

22:16:39 commercial is 15 foot buffer.

22:16:42 This petition require -- providing 36 feet I believe.

22:16:46 From the south residential property.

22:16:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?

22:16:58 >> Good evening, Council.

22:17:00 Joseph Diaz, my office at 2522 West Kennedy Boulevard.

22:17:05 We have ancillary parking facility that now

22:17:08 accommodates 14 vehicles.

22:17:10 We're trying to redesign that parking lot so that we

22:17:14 can get up to somewhere around 34 vehicles.




22:17:17 It seems like one of the super major issues in here are

22:17:22 these Dumpsters.

22:17:23 If I may share some photographs with you for a second.

22:17:25 That is what with we presently have, presently

22:17:34 permitted.

22:17:34 Those dumpsters are about 60 feet from the property to

22:17:40 the south.

22:17:49 >> The property to the south?

22:17:51 >> That would be the residential property.

22:17:52 Property to the south would be the residential

22:17:54 property.

22:17:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Where the house is?

22:18:00 Or the vacant property?

22:18:02 >> No, no, from where the dumpsters are, to that home

22:18:05 that you see in the back.

22:18:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's not to the south.

22:18:12 >> That's to the south.

22:18:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: All right.

22:18:17 I thought the prior picture we saw showed them being

22:18:24 closer to the tree.

22:18:26 For some reason.

22:18:28 >> That's where they are.




22:18:29 Look, all the property to the west is CG.

22:18:32 All the property to the north is CG.

22:18:34 All the property to the east is CN.

22:18:37 CN extends beyond our property, goes past where that

22:18:42 residential property is at back there.

22:18:44 That's what we presently have right now.

22:18:48 We're hearing a lot about Dumpsters.

22:18:54 Lets talk about dumpsters for a minute.

22:18:56 These first two Dumpsters that you see belong to Panera

22:19:02 bread.

22:19:03 They're the closest to Kennedy Boulevard.

22:19:05 These next three dumpsters that you see belong to

22:19:16 Starbucks with.

22:19:16 They're standing in our property and you're looking to

22:19:28 the back of Starbucks, there's our existing dumpsters,

22:19:33 there are the three Starbucks dumpsters further south.

22:19:36 By the time that you relocate these two dumpsters to

22:19:40 the new dumpster location, they're going to be almost

22:19:43 in line with those Starbucks dumpsters that you see

22:19:47 right there.

22:19:47 So now, we have accounted for two up at Panera and

22:19:53 three at Starbucks, that's five dumpsters.




22:19:56 And here are five more dumpsters in between he the

22:20:05 Panera bread dumpster and Cleveland.

22:20:07 There are a total of ten dumpsters in addition to our

22:20:12 two.

22:20:13 And what the net effect of our proposal is, is to move

22:20:17 our dumpsters 30 feet to the south.

22:20:19 I know that you got a letter last time that raised a

22:20:30 whole lot of concern for you, Mr. Dingfelder.

22:20:32 Well, lets look at that letter.

22:20:35 That let ser written by someone who says we are

22:20:38 residents of a lot adjacent to the subject property.

22:20:41 First of all, we are on Renellie and he's on Trask.

22:20:50 He's the second house off of Cleveland.

22:20:53 If you granted our application and we relocated our

22:20:57 dumpster, it would be 220 feet from our dumpster to his

22:21:01 northernmost property line.

22:21:02 He then goes on to talk to you about the fact that the

22:21:08 dumpsters that are in the shopping center, those are

22:21:10 those ten dumpsters on the west side of Renellie,

22:21:14 that's not our two dumpsters.

22:21:15 And he goes on to say if there is a dumpster at the

22:21:18 rear of the parking lot, there are already two




22:21:20 dumpsters there.

22:21:21 We are just going to move them 30 feet.

22:21:24 All that's going to happen.

22:21:25 If you look at our site plan, you're going to see that

22:21:30 there's just shy of 32 feet from the edge of the

22:21:33 pavement to the south property line.

22:21:35 And the enclosure is about five feet north of that.

22:21:39 Which means that we are going to be about 37 feet from

22:21:44 residentially zoned property and city code says

22:21:47 15 feet.

22:21:48 We're more than double that distance.

22:21:51 He talks about rodents.

22:21:56 He once again is talking about the shopping center and

22:21:58 if dumpsters are placed.

22:22:00 He wants to talk about lighting.

22:22:05 All of our lighting has got to be oriented in a

22:22:09 northerly direction, away from the property to the

22:22:12 south, or in a westerly direction away from the CN to

22:22:17 the east.

22:22:17 And he talks about traffic.

22:22:22 I don't know why on God's earth anybody would want to

22:22:25 come out of this parking lot on Renellie and brave down




22:22:29 Trask street.

22:22:30 I mean he, they'd either turn right and head east and

22:22:35 west on Kennedy, why they turn left to turn back on to

22:22:40 Trask again, I haven't got the foggiest.

22:22:44 As far as the city saying it's inconsistent, if you

22:22:51 look at what the inconsistencies are, and I'm telling

22:22:55 you that we'll do all of them.

22:22:58 Whether they're telling us they want us to put striping

22:23:01 and put no parking.

22:23:02 No problem.

22:23:03 They want us to tell you how many parking spaces or on

22:23:07 the site.

22:23:08 No problem.

22:23:08 We'll be more than glad to do it.

22:23:10 They want us to change title of depiction on the site

22:23:13 plan.

22:23:13 Be more than glad to do it.

22:23:15 They want us to relocate the dumpster and move it a

22:23:20 little bit further to the west, so that it will be a

22:23:26 clear entrance from the trucks.

22:23:27 Move it away from the CN property to the east.

22:23:30 We're not moving it any closer to the residential




22:23:33 property to the south.

22:23:39 With respect to one of the waivers I think is a little

22:23:48 misleading and I don't have anybody to blame but

22:23:51 myself.

22:23:52 The waiver says that we're asking for a 15-foot buffer.

22:23:56 If you look at the site plan, the real buffer is

22:23:59 31.8 feet.

22:24:00 It's not 15 feet.

22:24:02 That's along the south side of the property.

22:24:07 Along the south end of the property.

22:24:10 Look, we really think that we're doing a wonderful

22:24:15 thing to improve this site.

22:24:18 We are not removing a single tree, not a single oak

22:24:24 tree from that site.

22:24:25 The only tree that we're removing is, Mary wants us to

22:24:31 remove a palm tree that's basically at the property

22:24:33 line.

22:24:34 I guess we're going to hear some opposition, so I'd

22:24:50 like to reserve some time so I might be able to respond

22:24:54 to it.

22:24:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilmember Dingfelder?

22:25:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Abbye, the current use on the




22:25:05 northernmost lot, 106, South Renellie, it has parking

22:25:13 that has parking and I know you're pinch-hitting

22:25:17 tonight, but I appreciate it.

22:25:18 That has parking and the two dumpsters.

22:25:21 Is that a legal use right now?

22:25:23 Is that a permitted properly zoned use right now?

22:25:31 >>ABBYE FEELEY: No, they're under citation.

22:25:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm not talking about citation.

22:25:36 >> But for using the lot for parking.

22:25:38 Is what the issue is.

22:25:40 On that piece.

22:25:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is my question clear?

22:25:45 Let me know because I'm not understanding you.

22:25:49 >> He said adjacent to the commercial is that.

22:25:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Right, is it a legal use right now?

22:25:56 >> No.

22:25:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.

22:25:58 >> They're under citation.

22:26:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: They are under citation?

22:26:02 I couldn't understand you.

22:26:03 I'm sorry.

22:26:04 It's getting late.




22:26:05 >> Sorry.

22:26:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You got rebuttal in a couple

22:26:11 minutes.

22:26:12 So my point is, is you can say well this is an improved

22:26:18 location, this is a better location for the dumpster

22:26:20 than where it is.

22:26:21 Etcetera, etcetera.

22:26:22 The dumpster is not even, is not even allowed on that

22:26:27 lot right now, is that correct?

22:26:31 >>ABBYE FEELEY: On where they're showing it on the site

22:26:33 plan?

22:26:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No, on where it physically is today,

22:26:37 okay, in the northern lot, I think, looks like it's on

22:26:42 the northern lot or maybe its right on the lane.

22:26:45 But regardless, are either of those dumpsters legally

22:26:48 allowed there today?

22:26:49 I know they have been there, or they exist.

22:26:51 They got there.

22:26:52 But are they legally allowed there?

22:26:58 >>ABBYE FEELEY: I had to check with solid waste, I'm

22:27:01 sorry.

22:27:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm just asking from a zoning




22:27:03 perspective.

22:27:06 >>ABBYE FEELEY: I can't speak to the nonconformity of

22:27:09 this lot.

22:27:09 A lot of these lots along there, I traveled that border

22:27:13 this morning.

22:27:14 There are a lot that go a lot deeper.

22:27:16 So I can't speak to whether or not that those dumpsters

22:27:19 have been there for 30 years.

22:27:21 You know, and how that site was developed.

22:27:23 That's a much older development on the front of Kennedy

22:27:26 and how that's being serviced in the back.

22:27:28 So I don't feel comfortable telling you they're legal

22:27:31 non-con forging.

22:27:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let me just ask one question.

22:27:36 What's the citation for?

22:27:37 Who cited them?

22:27:39 >> For the parking lot use, is according to mine, they

22:27:42 were cited under 0905227 for parking lot use on the

22:27:47 property.

22:27:47 So they're coming in to now make that legal.

22:27:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And why was the parking lot use not

22:27:54 legal?




22:27:56 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Because it's residentially rezoned.

22:27:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Exactly.

22:27:59 So common sense, dumpsters wouldn't be allowed out in

22:28:02 the middle of a residentially zoned lot?

22:28:04 So my whole point though, you can rebut this when you

22:28:07 get your chance, is to say that you know, this, to

22:28:11 moving them south closer to that house closer to the

22:28:14 other houses, better location, blah-blah-blah, first

22:28:18 you got to deal with the fact that the entire use has

22:28:21 not been legal all along.

22:28:23 That's why you got the citation.

22:28:25 So I think we sort of have to back up a little bit and

22:28:27 start there.

22:28:28 Anyway.

22:28:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions, Council?

22:28:34 Pardon me?

22:28:35 Public comment.

22:28:41 >> March that Vizzi, I have been sworn.

22:28:47 I don't know if I can still talk.

22:28:49 Ought to be in bed by now.

22:28:51 But I'm speaking for the Beach Park homeowners

22:28:57 association.




22:28:57 And the board always takes the position, we are given

22:29:06 that not only authority, but the, that's what our

22:29:10 membership tells us to do, to protect the neighborhood.

22:29:13 You may wonder why those people who are living in those

22:29:17 homes aren't here this evening.

22:29:18 Those are all rentals.

22:29:20 As far as this particular property, when the man who

22:29:24 bought it last, there were homes on those two lots.

22:29:29 They tore them down.

22:29:31 He came to us before he bought it, and asked us if we

22:29:36 would support a land use change.

22:29:38 And we said no.

22:29:40 Because those are homes.

22:29:43 That are on that property.

22:29:45 People lived in them.

22:29:47 It's a very convenient place to live.

22:29:51 They did put up what was across the street, they were

22:29:55 rentals.

22:29:56 I don't know what they paid for the rentals.

22:29:58 But I do know that the owners close to Cleveland paid a

22:30:02 lot of money to renovate the homes at the end of

22:30:05 Cleveland.




22:30:05 Where this, these dumpsters would be closer to.

22:30:09 But what he's not bringing out is that they're also

22:30:15 going to be close to the people who are on Trask, who

22:30:19 don't hear the dumpsters across the street.

22:30:22 And they will now hear these dumpsters being dumped.

22:30:26 At whatever time they decide to pick up.

22:30:30 We are concerned and he's asking for the reduction of a

22:30:36 fence to a wood fence.

22:30:38 If you decide to do this, please make him put up the --

22:30:47 as I said, I won't with be able to speak.

22:30:49 But you know what I mean.

22:30:51 The masonry fence.

22:30:52 And also, if you decide to do this and we hope you

22:30:55 don't, because we're concerned of more dense use of the

22:31:02 building that is on Cleveland.

22:31:04 I mean on Kennedy.

22:31:07 Because when they redeveloped that after it burned,

22:31:11 they supposedly had enough parking for that use then.

22:31:15 So we do not know what the ulterior motive is of making

22:31:21 this now all this additional parking.

22:31:23 There has to be some reason for doing that.

22:31:27 But we don't know.




22:31:28 But again, the wall and the other issue, and here I

22:31:32 will talk about the neighborhood traffic.

22:31:34 If you do allow this, please make them put in the pork

22:31:40 chops to take that traffic back to Kennedy Boulevard,

22:31:44 or those things that you just had to put over at the

22:31:48 Home Depot.

22:31:48 But the place, the replacing of the dumpsters are a

22:31:54 great concern.

22:31:55 The fact that they're asking nothing masonry wall, and

22:32:00 the issue of the traffic, additional traffic.

22:32:04 Evidently they're saying they're going to be generating

22:32:09 more traffic, so that's what we don't understand.

22:32:11 We would like you to deny this because it is a

22:32:16 commercial use in the residentially zoned property.

22:32:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, ma'am.

22:32:21 >> Which as I say, people will live in if the house had

22:32:24 been still there.

22:32:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

22:32:26 Next speaker?

22:32:33 >> Good evening.

22:32:35 My name is Joseph Phillip, Jr.

22:32:37 I live at 201 South Trask Street, 33609.




22:32:41 And I have been sworn in.

22:32:42 I'm an 09er.

22:32:45 33609, and I like my neighborhood a lot.

22:32:49 I'm currently under the apprenticeship of Mrs. Vizzi.

22:32:57 [ Laughter ]

22:32:58 >> And hope to be here again in the future many, many

22:33:01 years.

22:33:01 I'm a lifelong resident.

22:33:03 May I show some of these?

22:33:08 >> Please.

22:33:10 >> The reason some of our neighbors are not here

22:33:13 because you can't read the sign, okay, it's been faded

22:33:17 out.

22:33:17 Bleached out.

22:33:18 Can't read it.

22:33:21 Father Hartman at Jesuit high school taught me how to

22:33:29 count pretty good.

22:33:31 I've counted 34 parking spaces on this parcel.

22:33:34 So I don't know how you can go from 34 or 14 or 17 or

22:33:38 whatever the counselor said.

22:33:40 But here's a shot from the north.

22:33:42 And I have taken a couple pick the tours.




22:33:44 And you can tell by is a -- the shadows, it's around

22:33:48 noontime.

22:33:49 This is predominantly a lunch place.

22:33:51 I love the Euros.

22:33:53 They're good.

22:33:54 And I also use that FedEx office sometimes because it's

22:33:58 really convenient for me.

22:34:01 But to change the nature of the neighborhood, it's

22:34:04 unnecessary.

22:34:05 There's plenty of parking here the way it is now.

22:34:07 Plenty of parking.

22:34:08 Even during the hours of 12:00 to 2:00.

22:34:11 Would I noticed when I went in there for lunch, I saw

22:34:16 34 people eating lunch about 12:30 in the afternoon.

22:34:19 And I counted ten employee go-go shirts.

22:34:23 So, I was in a restaurant business when I was in high

22:34:26 school.

22:34:27 I don't know why you need so many employees parking

22:34:30 back there.

22:34:31 When you only got 34 seats in the place.

22:34:33 Another thing I'm concerned about is, this building,

22:34:41 this was Edy's ice cream and Blimpie's subs, two great




22:34:49 places to eat.

22:34:49 This was the Blimpie's and this was Edy's ice cream.

22:34:53 Now the lot in question behind it are two contiguous

22:34:57 parcels.

22:34:58 When the owner purchased the property, the owner knew

22:35:02 then that time that there was two parcels, one was

22:35:05 zoned residential, one was zoned commercial.

22:35:08 So to am co back three, four years later and claim

22:35:10 ignorance or they want re-do it, I don't understand

22:35:14 why.

22:35:14 With us it's very important to notice is that these two

22:35:19 buildings look brand new.

22:35:20 But actually, I watched them build it.

22:35:23 They left the foundation there.

22:35:24 I don't know why you would leave the foundation on the

22:35:27 building and then leave the bearing walls here, here

22:35:31 and here.

22:35:32 I thought it was cheaper just to tear the building down

22:35:37 and rebuild.

22:35:38 So I'm trying to figure out -- there's something rotten

22:35:41 in Denmark.

22:35:42 Why would somebody not just build a brand new building?




22:35:44 I think we all know why.

22:35:46 I think the cat is out of the bag.

22:35:48 And what we're concerned about is this.

22:35:50 If this variance is granted, that building can be torn

22:35:55 down and they can put a Seasons 52 or Outback

22:36:00 steakhouse or anything and turn that into something it

22:36:04 wasn't designed for.

22:36:05 Which is Edy's ice cream and Blimpie's sub.

22:36:11 Thank you.

22:36:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else from the public?

22:36:15 Rebuttal?

22:36:16 Mr. Diaz.

22:36:19 >> Let me put this picture back.

22:36:24 There's a fence right here, Mr. Dingfelder.

22:36:32 It's also depicted on the site plan and that fence is

22:36:36 roughly about the middle of the parking lot.

22:36:39 I'm going to tell that you all the parking north of

22:36:42 that fence and those dumpsters are legal.

22:36:44 I'm going to tell that you the citation that we got is

22:36:49 because they have been parking south of the chain link

22:36:54 fence.

22:36:55 All the parking north of the chain link fence entirely




22:37:00 legal.

22:37:00 So if you turn in application down, the dumpsters will

22:37:06 stay there, and the parking will continue up to the

22:37:09 chain link fence.

22:37:10 We talk about it's a very convenient place to live and

22:37:16 it's a beautiful place, except apparently nobody lives

22:37:19 there but renters.

22:37:20 And I don't know who in their right mind would want to

22:37:23 buy residential property to build a brand new home

22:37:25 facing the back of that humongous development on

22:37:29 Kennedy and Westshore, with ten dumpsters in front of

22:37:33 their house.

22:37:34 The building and the businesses have all been permitted

22:37:47 and are there with the city.

22:37:49 There is nothing illegal.

22:37:52 As a matter of fact, Gogos opened February last years.

22:37:57 And at that time, it had to go through the whole

22:37:59 process.

22:38:00 And the parking was approved for the facility.

22:38:03 We're coming in here, I think city staff will tell you,

22:38:08 that long before we got at this location, Renellie has

22:38:12 been a nightmare because of Pinellas, Starbucks and




22:38:16 what's going on in that development.

22:38:18 We're actually going to improve the scenario, we are

22:38:22 going to put a parking lot there.

22:38:24 Yeah, we know they come and park on our property.

22:38:27 What we're telling you, Council, is, we're going to

22:38:49 make a phenomenal improvement to a scenario that's in

22:38:53 existence.

22:38:54 And the whole net effect is we're moving dumpsters

22:38:58 30 feet.

22:38:59 That's the whole net effect of this development.

22:39:02 Now, if you're going to tell me that that 30 feet is

22:39:07 that critical in noise, when we are dealing with these

22:39:12 dumpsters, then I find that somewhat surprising.

22:39:16 So, that this noise issue is going to be affected one

22:39:22 way or the other, the property to the east of us is all

22:39:28 CN, well past us.

22:39:30 For another two and a half lots, the it's still CN.

22:39:33 We would respectfully request that you approve our

22:39:38 application and we're telling you that we are willing

22:39:40 to do all of the matters that they have found for the

22:39:44 basis for their inconsistency.

22:39:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions from Council?




22:39:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have just a statement, if I may.

22:39:55 I'm looking at the properties to the east, and does

22:40:00 that parking area go beyond what we're looking at?

22:40:05 And then why wouldn't you put a masonry wall?

22:40:12 >> Mr. Miranda, if I, let me show you this drawing.

22:40:15 All of this orange property that you see here, this one

22:40:22 lot and half of this lot all fronting on Kennedy and

22:40:25 all here, that's all CG.

22:40:27 All of it.

22:40:28 All of this green property that you see here is CN.

22:40:33 Our property stops right here, where you see this blue

22:40:38 line.

22:40:38 The dumpsters are actually going to be 36 feet north of

22:40:44 that blue line.

22:40:45 The dumpsters are going to fall somewhere around here.

22:40:48 The masonry wall they're talking about, there is at

22:40:55 present a very tall masonry wall that separates our

22:40:59 property from the bank to the east.

22:41:04 What miss Vizzi was talking about is the fence line

22:41:07 that separates us from the residential property to the

22:41:10 south, that is a six foot wall -- six foot wood fence.

22:41:15 Six foot wood fence.




22:41:17 So that's where she was talking about.

22:41:20 We sincerely believe that, like I say, we're 36 feet

22:41:27 away.

22:41:29 One of the waivers that we're asking for is that we not

22:41:31 have to erect a masonry wall along that south boundary.

22:41:35 That's Council's pleasure, we'll do it.

22:41:42 But I haven't seen the person that owns that property,

22:41:47 I haven't seen him come in here and say one word about

22:41:50 his parcel of land.

22:41:53 Other gentleman that spoke, he lives three blocks away.

22:41:56 We are in the 100 block of Renellie.

22:41:58 He lives at 301 Trask.

22:42:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other question of Council?

22:42:06 What's the pleasure of Council?

22:42:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.

22:42:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

22:42:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.

22:42:14 Opposes?

22:42:15 Pleasure?

22:42:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: There is no pleasure.

22:42:23 [ Laughter ]

22:42:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It is 10:42.




22:42:29 And I think we all tired.

22:42:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would just like to say that I

22:42:39 think that renters are people too.

22:42:40 And I think that the reason that we came up with the

22:42:45 original rule that you have to have a masonry wall

22:42:48 between a commercial property and a residential

22:42:50 property is because it really does protect the

22:42:53 residential property and affords more privacy.

22:42:56 And sound.

22:42:57 So, I would be -- I'm sorry we lost the houses.

22:43:07 I always believe in protecting houses.

22:43:09 But I'm okay with this being a parking lot.

22:43:11 But I think we need to protect the neighbors.

22:43:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I agree with that protection.

22:43:16 If that's your motion, I second it.

22:43:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's my motion.

22:43:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It then ends the, the movement of

22:43:24 something any further south, I believe, unless you tear

22:43:27 down the wall with you built because it costs a lot of

22:43:31 money.

22:43:31 I don't think I can say -- I can't tell somebody how to

22:43:35 rebuild their property.




22:43:37 I've season buildings, in fact, if you look at MLK, and

22:43:42 the river, there used to be an old union house there on

22:43:46 the left-hand side.

22:43:47 Big one, was there for years.

22:43:50 They knocked down everything but the structure itself.

22:43:56 All the inside, all the outside, left the beams an

22:44:01 rebuilding.

22:44:02 I can't tell you -- that's speculation.

22:44:05 I understand what you're saying.

22:44:07 But, I don't think anybody that builds something,

22:44:10 they're going to do it as fine as hard as possible, and

22:44:14 as best and as economical as possible, meeting the

22:44:18 guidelines of whatever regulations they're under.

22:44:20 So I'm comparing this structure to what with I've seen,

22:44:23 and it's still going on on MLK and the river, on the

22:44:28 north side of MLK, just before the river.

22:44:31 So I would do that with the missionary wall in the --

22:44:39 masonry wall in the back, and where do you ingress and

22:44:42 egress from this, Mr. Diaz?

22:44:45 On this property?

22:44:50 >> I'm sorry.

22:44:51 Two points, if I can.




22:44:53 Number one, it would be appropriate to open up the

22:44:55 public hearing, just to answer that question.

22:44:57 Also I believe Mr. Diaz is going to make a statement

22:44:59 with regards to the masonry wall.

22:45:02 >> Move to open.

22:45:03 >> Second.

22:45:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.

22:45:09 >> I'm sorry, Mr. Miranda, your question again?

22:45:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The ingress and egress to your

22:45:15 parking lot.

22:45:15 I know you made reference to one of them bread

22:45:18 companies.

22:45:18 But where do they come in and out when they park behind

22:45:22 your building?

22:45:23 >> Right now, if you look at the site plan, you'll see

22:45:29 the area furthest north.

22:45:33 That's where they come in and out.

22:45:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Northwest you mean?

22:45:41 >> This is an existing driveway.

22:45:43 This is.

22:45:44 This is where all the traffic comes in and out of right

22:45:47 now.




22:45:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So you only have one ingress and

22:45:49 egress.

22:45:51 >> That is correct at this time.

22:45:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Is there anyway to put a couple of

22:45:54 little, they look like paddles what they used to hit me

22:46:00 with in high school and junior high school when I was a

22:46:02 bad boy.

22:46:03 You can't make a left-hand turn.

22:46:04 That's the only thing I'm saying.

22:46:09 >> We would have no problem with it.

22:46:11 I think you may want to talk to solid waste.

22:46:13 Solid waste the way they run their route and the size

22:46:16 of their trucks and what have you.

22:46:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I didn't consider that, to be honest

22:46:20 with you.

22:46:21 >> That I think may affect your, apparently as I

22:46:28 understand, in speaking with solid waste, they run

22:46:31 their route from Trask towards Kennedy, because if you

22:46:34 look the way the, dumpsters are oriented, all the

22:46:39 pictures I showed you, and so I think maybe Mr. Rado

22:46:46 can answer that question best.

22:46:48 I think that the announcement, we would have no problem




22:46:53 whatsoever changing our site plan to reflect we would

22:46:56 erect a six foot masonry wall along the south boundary

22:47:00 of the site to tie it to the existing masonry wall

22:47:03 along the east running down to the west.

22:47:06 >> So you remove that waiver between first and second

22:47:09 reading.

22:47:10 >> That is correct.

22:47:10 >> Thank you.

22:47:23 >> Currently, this is the ingress egress here.

22:47:27 Adding the second driveway to the south of the grand

22:47:31 oak tree.

22:47:32 We can make that exit only filtering traffic back up

22:47:38 towards Kennedy.

22:47:39 As long as the commissioner agrees to have it wide

22:47:44 enough for solid waste to exit.

22:47:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Do you agree to that, Mr. Diaz?

22:47:52 I'm trying to get a compromise for your project and

22:47:57 protection all at once.

22:47:59 >> Mr. Miranda, but we haven't heard concern about

22:48:04 traffic into the neighborhood, we'll agree to channel

22:48:07 the traffic towards Kennedy on that southernmost

22:48:13 driveway.




22:48:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All right.

22:48:17 I'm not the chairman, I'm sorry.

22:48:19 Mill.

22:48:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mover to close.

22:48:23 >> Second.

22:48:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman.

22:48:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ding I don't care if we do it before

22:48:28 or after we close.

22:48:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.

22:48:31 All in favor signify by saying aye.

22:48:36 Councilmember Dingfelder?

22:48:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I can't support it.

22:48:40 Mainly because I think it sets bad precedent for this

22:48:44 area.

22:48:45 And we know from experience that up and down Kennedy,

22:48:48 there's, there has been a lot of opportunity to

22:48:52 encroach into the neighborhood.

22:48:53 I think about Lindell motors back six, seven, eight

22:49:00 years ago.

22:49:01 There was a lot of encroachment down there.

22:49:03 The banks along there have continually encroached to

22:49:07 the south.




22:49:07 Because inevitably everybody lives a little more

22:49:13 parking.

22:49:13 I live three lots away from a restaurant and I'm glad

22:49:17 there are three houses on those three lots and not

22:49:19 parking for the restaurant.

22:49:20 Because it keeps the restaurant small and manageable.

22:49:25 And you know, and yes, they come up and park up and

22:49:29 down the street.

22:49:30 I can live with that.

22:49:31 I'd much rather have that than have a parking lot and

22:49:34 dumpster encroaching down into my neighborhood and I

22:49:36 would with assume that these neighbors, whether or not

22:49:38 they are renters or not, would feel the same way.

22:49:41 So I can't support the motion that's coming up.

22:49:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I think if it's the same motion that

22:49:48 was on the floor, with the masonry wall and no egress

22:49:55 out of that southern area, protection's there for

22:49:58 everybody.

22:49:59 If you look to the east of this property, it goes

22:50:01 further deeper into the neighborhood than what this

22:50:05 does.

22:50:05 So I mean, this is moving one dumpster 36 feet, with




22:50:13 protection, additional protection to the neighborhood,

22:50:18 renters or not, the renters are people.

22:50:20 But when you put a masonry wall, earlier the day we

22:50:24 were talking about oh, we close the street on

22:50:26 Kensington and Kennedy, I think it is.

22:50:32 For a bank.

22:50:33 Remember that through the hearing number six.

22:50:38 If I remember.

22:50:41 That worked.

22:50:41 Now we're thinking about closing half a street.

22:50:45 That may work.

22:50:46 So I mean, I can't just think that's and that's it, I'm

22:50:53 not playing here no more.

22:50:55 I understand the opposition.

22:50:56 I really do.

22:50:57 But I also have to look at it practically that who am I

22:51:02 hurting by putting a protection of a wall where now

22:51:06 there's a chain link fence, you can see everything

22:51:09 that's going on.

22:51:10 And if there are what they said it was, that there are

22:51:15 rodents and this and that, let's find out where they

22:51:20 are at and get those individuals cited.




22:51:22 I don't believe solid waste should have the opportunity

22:51:25 to pick up these containers at 4:30 in the morning.

22:51:28 That's just a violation.

22:51:30 They're not hurting this business by doing that.

22:51:32 They're hurt ting the same neighbors that we're trying

22:51:35 to protect.

22:51:36 So, how can they have an exemption on that?

22:51:40 To me, that's worse of a problem than what we have here

22:51:44 now.

22:51:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Who wants to read the ordinance?

22:51:51 -- you made the motion.

22:52:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Now she wants to hear my voice.

22:52:03 I go on the record as the maker.

22:52:05 It doesn't bother me.

22:52:06 Mr. Chairman, I move special, ordinance for first

22:52:09 reading along with the changes between first and second

22:52:13 reading approving a special use permit as to approving

22:52:17 parking off-street commercial in an RS-75 residential

22:52:20 single-family zoning district in the general vicinity

22:52:23 of 106, 108 Renellie Drive in the City of Tampa,

22:52:26 Florida as more particularly described in section one

22:52:29 thereof, providing an effective date.




22:52:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And including the motion, include all

22:52:34 the special conditions.

22:52:35 Moved and second.

22:52:39 Second by Councilmember Saul-Sena.

22:52:41 All in favor signify by saying aye.

22:52:43 Opposes?

22:52:44 Nay.

22:52:46 >> Motion carried with Dingfelder voting no and Mulhern

22:52:51 being absent.

22:52:52 Correction.

22:52:57 Motion carried with Scott and Dingfelder voting no and

22:53:01 Mulhern being absent.

22:53:05 Second reading and adoption will be on June 24th at

22:53:05 9:30 a.m.

22:53:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

22:53:09 I just wanted to make the administration aware that

22:53:11 this is the second time in two months that they have

22:53:14 scheduled something during an MPO meeting when four

22:53:18 Councilmembers serve on the mope and if we leave the

22:53:21 mope to go -- MPO to go to chief Forward's swearing in,

22:53:26 then the mope loses its quorum or doesn't have any city

22:53:29 input.




22:53:30 And I know that -- anyway, I would really like someone

22:53:35 from the administration to be made aware that, that

22:53:39 this is not considerate.

22:53:41 Thanks.

22:53:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilmember Dingfelder?

22:53:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Miranda brings up a good point.

22:53:49 And so I'd like to get a staff report.

22:53:55 What's our second meeting in June?

22:53:57 Or do we have a second meeting in June?

22:53:59 Regular meeting?

22:54:00 3rd and 24th.

22:54:05 >> June 24th.

22:54:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So on June 24th, a report from solid

22:54:11 waste in regard to why they feel they should be treated

22:54:14 differently than the private sector hauler, as regards

22:54:19 to the hours of operation.

22:54:24 >> I'm sorry to chime in, but I have been speaking with

22:54:27 the clerk about this.

22:54:28 And it's a tremendous concern that June 24th is going

22:54:31 to be last meeting before your break.

22:54:34 Every second reading that --

22:54:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I appreciate it.




22:54:39 July what?

22:54:41 First meeting back in July?

22:54:47 >> In July, yes, the first meeting will be on the 15th.

22:54:52 Regular session.

22:54:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think there might be occasion when

22:54:55 the government needs to be treated differently than the

22:54:57 private sector.

22:54:58 But I think the government needs to, has the burden of

22:55:01 proving that.

22:55:02 And I think that they should come down and tell us why

22:55:04 they should be.

22:55:06 >> Second to that.

22:55:07 >> Moved and second.

22:55:08 All in favor signify by saying aye.

22:55:12 >> It is because of interpretation in the code and

22:55:14 Council disagrees with that policy, Council has the

22:55:16 prerogative of changing the code.

22:55:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.

22:55:20 >> Mr. Chairman, why is it that some of these dumpsters

22:55:23 are not enclosed in a.

22:55:29 >> That's a different thing.

22:55:30 Commercial versus residential.




22:55:34 >> Commercial establishments are on that they have to

22:55:37 be enclosed.

22:55:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

22:55:40 Anything else to come before Council?

22:55:43 >> Receive and file.

22:55:44 >> So moved to receive and file.

22:55:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.

22:55:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Anything else?

22:55:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I thought we were really

22:55:51 collaborative tonight.

22:55:52 I was real proud.

22:55:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We stand adjourned.

22:55:55 Thank you.

22:55:56



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