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TAMPA CITY COUNCIL

Thursday, October 21, 2010

9:00 a.m. session



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09:02:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come to

09:02:41 order.

09:02:41 The chair will yield to Councilwoman Mulhern.

09:02:44 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to welcome reverend Jim

09:02:46 Harnish, the senior pastor at Hyde Park United

09:02:49 Methodist to give our invocation this morning.

09:02:52 >> Good morning.

09:02:54 October 24th marks the anniversary of the United

09:02:56 Nations charter.

09:02:58 And so I want to have been share this morning a prayer

09:03:01 by Dag Hammarskjold, the heroic first secretary general

09:03:06 of the United Nations.

09:03:08 Let us be in prayer together.

09:03:11 Thou who art over us, Thou who art one of us, Thou who

09:03:16 are also with us, may all see Thee in me also.

09:03:22 May I thank Thee for all that shall fall my lot.

09:03:26 May I also not forget the needs of others.

09:03:32 Keep me in Thy love as thou wouldst that all shall be

09:03:35 kept in mine.

09:03:36 May everything in this my being be directed to thy

09:03:40 glory and may I never despair for I'm under Thy hand

09:03:44 and in these all power and goodness.

09:03:48 Give me a pure heart that I may see Thee, a humble

09:03:53 heart that I may hear Thee, a heart of love that I may

09:03:58 serve Thee, a heart of faith that I may abide in Thee.

09:04:04 O Thou who art over, with, and within us, amen.

09:04:10 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]

09:04:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.

09:04:34 Roll call.

09:04:34 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.




09:04:37 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Here.

09:04:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.

09:04:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.

09:04:50 >>CURTIS STOKES: Here.

09:04:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.

09:04:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to approve the minutes.

09:04:55 >> Second.

09:04:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?

09:05:00 Opposed?

09:05:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Before you, you have the addendum to

09:05:04 today's agenda.

09:05:05 The first item that I am asking council to take up is

09:05:11 an issue that took place at the October 14th

09:05:15 workshop session.

09:05:16 A motion was made to bring back the issues on the news

09:05:21 rack ordinance in two weeks.

09:05:22 Two weeks, actually, council, is October 28th.

09:05:25 There is no regular meeting at that time.

09:05:26 So the appearance before council should be corrected by

09:05:32 motion to read November 4th, 2010.

09:05:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.

09:05:37 >> Second.




09:05:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

09:05:39 All in favor?

09:05:40 Opposes?

09:05:41 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Item number 55 is an ordinance

09:05:44 regarding the amendment to chapter to the city ethics

09:05:49 code.

09:05:50 You have a memorandum from city attorney Chip Fletcher

09:05:52 asking that that ordinance be substituted.

09:05:55 Item number 69 is to appear and provide a verbal report

09:06:00 regarding an accident that occurred on north 34th

09:06:03 street and east Chelsea, also to advise the safety

09:06:08 measures.

09:06:08 You received a memorandum from city attorney Chip

09:06:11 Fletcher requesting a continuance of that matter to

09:06:13 November 4th, 2010.

09:06:16 Item number 71 is a resolution regarding FTC

09:06:24 incorporated.

09:06:25 You received a memorandum from Kimberley Crum asking

09:06:28 the agenda form be substituted and there is going to be

09:06:30 a presentation about that under staff reports.

09:06:36 There's a memorandum associated with that as well.

09:06:38 Item number 84 -- excuse me, this is an afternoon item.




09:06:46 Regarding the afternoon items, even though these items

09:06:49 cannot be taken up until 1:30, I bring to the council's

09:06:52 attention now, particularly to the public's attention,

09:06:55 just so they can be on notice if they are listening.

09:06:58 Item number 76, file V-10-316 at 305 and 307 West

09:07:08 Kennedy Boulevard, there's been a late request for a

09:07:12 continuance of that matter.

09:07:14 So the petitioner's agent will be asking for a

09:07:16 continuance to November 4th at 1:30.

09:07:19 Item number 79 actually can be taken care of at 1:30

09:07:26 but it will have to be removed because that number 79

09:07:30 is in error.

09:07:31 It is already rescheduled for November 4th at 1:30

09:07:34 so that won't be heard.

09:07:35 Finally, item number 84 in the afternoon which is an

09:07:39 appeal hearing regarding a decision of the variance

09:07:42 review board VRB for north 50th street cannot be

09:07:50 heard.

09:07:51 The public hearing will have to be opened and continued

09:07:54 to allow the appellant time top provide the complete

09:07:57 report record.

09:07:59 Items for highlighting, Mr. Chairman, I believe you are




09:08:01 requesting items 12 and 30 when they come up to be

09:08:04 highlighted.

09:08:05 And you have other items that you have received

09:08:08 regarding today's agenda.

09:08:11 I am not aware of any other changes, additions or

09:08:13 deletions.

09:08:14 And I present to the you for your approval.

09:08:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.

09:08:19 >> Second.

09:08:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

09:08:21 All in favor?

09:08:24 Opposes?

09:08:24 Okay.

09:08:30 At this time we'll take public comment.

09:08:33 Those who wish to address council may come forward.

09:08:36 We give preference to items on the agenda first.

09:08:39 Items that are first on the agenda may come now.

09:08:47 Okay.

09:08:48 Items on the agenda?

09:08:49 >> Good morning, City Council.

09:08:52 My name is Alan Snell, south united bicycle dealers,

09:08:59 item number 70 on your agenda.




09:09:01 I am here to urge that you move this resolution and

09:09:04 work with Hillsborough County for a countywide bicycle

09:09:06 safety action plan.

09:09:08 I think the City of Tampa needs to play a role in this

09:09:12 because the majority of accidents in Hillsborough

09:09:14 County, the City of Tampa regarding bicycle accidents.

09:09:21 The city is really good at building projects, build

09:09:24 parks, and roads, and buildings.

09:09:28 And what the city, I think, needs to improve in is

09:09:31 building attitude.

09:09:32 It's a little more difficult to put arms around it.

09:09:35 Toward that end, I'm inviting the City Council members

09:09:37 to 2001 bicycle events.

09:09:41 I'm a member of the bicycle club and you are invited to

09:09:44 come on this Saturday, 2:30 p.m., I will be leading a

09:09:48 bicycle tour of local restaurants.

09:09:50 If you know how to ride a bicycle you can do this bike

09:09:53 ride.

09:09:54 Just bring a helmet.

09:09:55 We would love to see you.

09:09:57 And you will see just the enthusiasm and what's going

09:09:59 on in the streets here in the city.




09:10:01 And then on November 7th is the bicycle bash

09:10:05 festival.

09:10:05 And that's the big annual festival to celebrate and

09:10:09 promote bicycling in the Tampa Bay area.

09:10:11 This year it's going to be on this side of the bay in

09:10:15 Hillsborough County.

09:10:16 I have had it in St. Pete and this year I am having it

09:10:19 in Hillsborough County and I'm hoping the City Council

09:10:20 members take advantage and visit.

09:10:24 We need the city to enhance attitude towards bicycling.

09:10:32 I have had a really positive discussion with Jean

09:10:36 Dorzback, the transportation director, and she seems on

09:10:38 board and is in fact working on a terrific project on

09:10:41 North Boulevard to reduce it from four to three lanes

09:10:43 and add bike lanes and add what's called sharrows on an

09:10:47 extended section of that stretch.

09:10:49 We are in favor of those kind of projects.

09:10:51 But, again, it really -- I really urge you to get

09:10:59 involved and see what bicycling is about in Tampa.

09:11:02 Our bicycle bash festival on November 7th will be

09:11:05 held against the back drop of seven bicyclists who have

09:11:08 been killed in the last two and a half months across




09:11:09 the Tampa Bay area including two here in the City of

09:11:12 Tampa.

09:11:13 We all know we can do better, so I want to work with

09:11:17 you folks toward that end.

09:11:18 I also want to thank you Councilwoman Mary Mulhern who

09:11:21 will be receiving the coveted buddy award at the

09:11:25 bicycle bash.

09:11:27 We are honoring seven people in our community that

09:11:29 stepped up, and these are not in the bicycle industry,

09:11:33 these are people who just stepped up to help bicycling

09:11:36 and I hope in the future that award will be given to

09:11:42 other City Council members.

09:11:43 Thank you very much.

09:11:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

09:11:48 >> Al Steenson, 4100 west LEILA Avenue, Tampa, this

09:11:55 morning representing Gandy sun bay south civic

09:11:58 association.

09:11:58 I'm here to speak on item 67.

09:12:01 The association would certainly like to applaud this

09:12:05 council for keeping focus on this issue.

09:12:09 And I have not seen the report that Ms. Wise has

09:12:14 presented to you or will present.




09:12:21 And in order to get a fairer picture of what kind of

09:12:24 fund we are talking about, I would certainly recommend

09:12:27 to this council that the two-year request that you did,

09:12:32 just go back a little further, possibly to 2004, when

09:12:36 we were having the big building boom, and here we have

09:12:39 a better feel and a better handle on the kind of money

09:12:43 that came in on these transportation impact fees, where

09:12:47 it came from and where it went.

09:12:49 This issue is important to the citizens, because the

09:12:56 impact fees are ultimately paid by the buyer whether

09:12:58 it's a retail store, whether it's a house, it's all

09:13:01 being paid.

09:13:01 Now, along the same lines, if I may, in the interest of

09:13:06 fair play, there was a motion made at the second public

09:13:08 hearing regarding impact fees and with regard to the

09:13:15 WalMart.

09:13:16 In the interest of fair play, if it's the pleasure of

09:13:18 council and the maker of the original motion, the

09:13:21 association would certainly respectfully request that

09:13:24 this item be continued until after the first of the

09:13:28 year for a couple of very, very important reasons.

09:13:31 Number one, December 2nd is just a few days after




09:13:35 black Friday.

09:13:35 The store will only have been open about a month and we

09:13:39 haven't even gotten to the Christmas holiday yet so any

09:13:43 report that they will come back with I think would be

09:13:45 terribly skewed.

09:13:48 In late January or February when the shopping pattern

09:13:50 is down to its normal, I think we'll get a much better

09:13:54 picture of it.

09:13:55 And we ask the city to be fair with us and do the right

09:13:59 thing.

09:13:59 We just feel this is the right thing to do for the

09:14:01 administration and the total community.

09:14:04 So if you would, we would like to continue that item

09:14:09 until January or February.

09:14:10 Thank you.

09:14:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.

09:14:18 >> Good morning.

09:14:19 My name is Pete Nelson.

09:14:21 I reside at 2806 west madison Avenue in Tampa.

09:14:25 I'm here to speak on agenda item number 64, which is

09:14:31 the proposed change of the purchasing threshold from

09:14:36 100,000 to 50,000.




09:14:39 I serve as the president of mothers organics, yard

09:14:44 waste recycling composting facility.

09:14:47 We have the contract with the City of Tampa to manage

09:14:50 the city's vegetated debris and yard waste.

09:14:53 We also manage the same type of contract with the city

09:14:57 of Clearwater, city of Tarpon Springs, and city of

09:15:01 Temple Terrace.

09:15:03 I had the benefit in most cases to have a similar type

09:15:07 of contract with multiple municipalities, and then also

09:15:11 we have a contract that has been put through the

09:15:17 threshold and above the current threshold of 100,000 so

09:15:20 I have seen both sides of it.

09:15:26 In our experience, which is unique -- and I also look

09:15:28 at this proposal -- to me it seems regressive in

09:15:31 nature.

09:15:31 When I see something that's regressive in nature then I

09:15:34 step back and say, okay, there's got to be something

09:15:37 tangible that's driving it.

09:15:39 I don't necessarily see that, but I will take it that

09:15:42 it is.

09:15:43 But from my experience, how I see this playing out is

09:15:47 two ways.




09:15:48 Number one, purchasing, with budget cuts and employee

09:15:54 cuts, is already probably taxed.

09:15:56 This is going to add a tremendous amount more work to

09:15:59 purchasing, which will then delay the bid process, lose

09:16:05 out on more opportunities.

09:16:07 Part of that is based on my opinion.

09:16:09 But way believe is truly true is there's a lot more

09:16:15 that has to go through the full purchasing process.

09:16:19 There will be absolute tangible loss N.our case we have

09:16:22 one contract that went through very quickly.

09:16:24 The city benefited.

09:16:25 We benefited.

09:16:26 The other contract took 18 months where the city lost

09:16:31 out on probably half million dollars when you include

09:16:35 lost cost savings and then consider all the staff time,

09:16:38 we would all agree that time is money.

09:16:41 So I think when we are looking at that, given that I

09:16:45 don't have all the facts that are supporting that

09:16:48 proposal, I think we need to understand or we need to

09:16:52 at least consider that the work that that will put on

09:16:57 purchasing, the rippling effect it will have on the

09:16:59 business community, and then ultimately on lost




09:17:02 opportunities, and opportunities will be a financial

09:17:08 consequence.

09:17:08 Thank you.

09:17:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Don't leave.

09:17:12 Don't leave.

09:17:13 Your name again?

09:17:15 >> Pete Nelson.

09:17:16 >> And the company you represent?

09:17:17 >> Mothers organics.

09:17:19 >> That was a contract that had a problem with the city

09:17:22 about a year ago, am I correct?

09:17:24 >> Yes, a year ago two, years ago.

09:17:26 >> I'm just putting my computer into forward motion.

09:17:28 >> Yes.

09:17:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That contract was highly debated

09:17:33 because it wasn't going to you.

09:17:35 Am I correct?

09:17:36 >> No.

09:17:37 It was going to us.

09:17:38 >> But there was a problem there that it was held up.

09:17:41 Am I correct?

09:17:42 >> There was a protest.




09:17:43 >> All right.

09:17:44 Let me ask you this.

09:17:45 So then you are coming before this council speaking on

09:17:47 your behalf only, not on the whole city's process, just

09:17:51 one individual for one company for what you need from

09:17:54 the city.

09:17:55 Am I correct?

09:17:56 >> No.

09:17:57 That was --

09:17:58 >> The whole industry.

09:18:00 So what you are telling us is that if we were to buy

09:18:04 glass ware that the prices won't change for a year, if

09:18:07 we were to buy batteries, the prices don't change for a

09:18:11 year, if we were to buy any other commodities, see,

09:18:16 government doesn't think outside the box.

09:18:18 >> I know that.

09:18:19 >> Only think inside the box.

09:18:21 So I guarantee you, there are items that can be

09:18:23 purchased on a different venue with or without state

09:18:28 contracts if we chose to do that.

09:18:30 But we don't choose to do that.

09:18:33 >> No.




09:18:33 >> In many instances.

09:18:35 Am I correct?

09:18:36 >> I don't know.

09:18:37 >> All right.

09:18:38 Let me ask you this.

09:18:40 So you have a year contract, right?

09:18:45 >> I believe it's two-year contract.

09:18:48 >> And what kind of multiples are added to that year?

09:18:51 >> I don't believe any multiples.

09:18:53 >> Any multiples.

09:18:55 So that means every year that contract is bidded out

09:18:57 with or without the 100 grand in it.

09:18:59 Right?

09:19:00 >> Yes.

09:19:00 >> What difference would it make if it's 50 to be you

09:19:03 if it's bidded out every year?

09:19:07 >> The possible effect is when it's bidded out, it has

09:19:10 to go through the full process, if there's delay --

09:19:17 >> Just answer the question.

09:19:19 Yes or no?

09:19:19 >> It's not a yes or no answer.

09:19:22 >> Well, yes, it is, because if it's bidded out every




09:19:26 year, or if it's extended every year, there is a vast

09:19:29 difference, sir.

09:19:31 In other words, I'm real tight with money.

09:19:34 I'm asking you, is your contract extended every year

09:19:38 automatically or is it bidded out?

09:19:40 >> That's up to the staff.

09:19:43 A lot of contract.

09:19:44 There's the year contract and then there's multiple

09:19:47 one-year renewals given with the vendor and the city.

09:19:50 >> So even though I voted for that contract, with your

09:19:53 company, there is a possibility that there is no bid.

09:19:57 >> Yes, there's a possibility.

09:19:59 >> Thank you very much.

09:20:00 >> Do I get to respond?

09:20:02 >> No, I'm just asking a question, sir.

09:20:05 If you want to debate me, come to the office.

09:20:08 >> I can just sit here and listen to you.

09:20:14 Thank you very much.

09:20:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.

09:20:16 >> My name is Carolyn Lawson and I'm president and

09:20:20 owner of Camilleian custom solutions, and I have a

09:20:24 contract with the city that's between 60 and 100.




09:20:28 Actually between 50 and 100,000.

09:20:31 So I'm here to talk about item 54 as well.

09:20:34 And what I am going to ask you to do, because I don't

09:20:38 know why the city wants to do this be, I'm going to ask

09:20:41 you to look at it from the perspective of the small

09:20:44 business like myself.

09:20:46 And the things that I thought about is that there's a

09:20:50 large commitment on the small business part to go

09:20:53 through the RFP process, and we are happy to do that.

09:20:58 Usually in order to win a contract with the city, we

09:21:01 have to be the lowest bid.

09:21:03 What that usually means for the small business is that

09:21:07 it's below our full cost, which is great.

09:21:11 It's still very valuable to us.

09:21:15 We need the work, so it's important that we get it.

09:21:18 The approval process, also there's set-up for the city

09:21:30 business.

09:21:30 So when we are -- if the approval process takes a

09:21:34 longer period of time, then as a small business we are

09:21:39 having a longer period of time to wait to get the

09:21:43 business awarded after making such an investment.

09:21:46 So I would ask you to really just consider the




09:21:50 perspective of the small business when you are trying

09:21:53 to make a decision.

09:21:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, let me suggest to Mr. Miranda,

09:21:59 and council, that we just hold our questions so we can

09:22:01 get through public information and questions.

09:22:03 Let's get through public comments.

09:22:06 We have two more speakers, okay?

09:22:08 Next speaker.

09:22:09 >> good morning, Chairman Scott.

09:22:17 My name is Michael young.

09:22:18 I'm the secretary for the American transit union.

09:22:24 It came to my attention yesterday approximately noon

09:22:27 with a phone call from the "The Tampa Tribune" that

09:22:29 item 63 was on the agenda.

09:22:37 It was our understanding that this item had already

09:22:39 been addressed and resolved, so I'm in front of you a

09:22:45 little bit unprepared.

09:22:49 We have a plethora of evidence, facts, statistics that

09:22:54 are all pertinent to this proposal.

09:22:56 We would like to be able to submit them at some time.

09:22:59 We realized that all paperwork was supposed to have

09:23:03 been submitted last week.




09:23:04 Unfortunately, we were unaware of this situation until

09:23:08 noon yesterday.

09:23:17 This division actually has some very good ideas that

09:23:21 may help the task force in coming up with an amendment

09:23:23 for this proposal that would make the citizens and the

09:23:26 city very happy, beneficial, cost effective, and we

09:23:30 would like to request an extension to work on this to

09:23:33 the benefit of the citizens and the City of Tampa.

09:23:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.

09:23:40 We'll take that up when we get to that item.

09:23:43 >> Good morning.

09:23:46 My name is Dick garra, the maintenance supervisor for

09:23:56 fire rescue.

09:23:57 Also I was just made aware of this yesterday afternoon.

09:23:59 I did get some documentation.

09:24:00 I don't know if you want to see it today or not.

09:24:02 To be succinct, this is only about, not to throw away

09:24:09 the proverbial baby with the bath water, we don't have

09:24:15 an exact opposition against the COPS, but what we want

09:24:20 to do is we have been working for about 20 years to get

09:24:24 the proper team member to work on our parts.

09:24:29 Now that we have them, we have had them for about four




09:24:31 years, and he has saved Tampa Fire Rescue and the City

09:24:35 of Tampa a lot of money since he has been with us.

09:24:40 And even though it may sound that we are just trying to

09:24:42 save an individual, we are trying to save a team, which

09:24:45 is Tampa Fire Rescue's maintenance shop.

09:24:48 So we would like to propose an addendum that Tampa Fire

09:24:53 Rescue's maintenance shops maintain a specialized parts

09:24:58 manager, a controller.

09:25:02 I have the document here, the documents for each one of

09:25:05 you, if you would like to have it now, so that you can

09:25:08 study it and you can see that we have some backing that

09:25:12 we went from, if anybody remembers about 14, 16 years

09:25:17 ago, we made "St. Pete Times" the maintenance shop was

09:25:21 really in big disarray.

09:25:25 It has turned around to where we are getting nothing

09:25:27 but kudos and accolades from Tampa Fire Rescue as to

09:25:33 how we have progressed and we are now serving not only

09:25:35 them but of course our taxpayers by doing a good job

09:25:38 for them.

09:25:40 Again, I would like to ask that we just make an

09:25:46 addendum or some kind of change that Tampa Fire

09:25:49 Rescue's maintenance shop is not affected by this COPS.




09:25:55 Thank you very much.

09:25:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Just for clarification to you and to

09:25:58 the prior speaker one, council does not have the

09:26:02 authority to change administration, is my

09:26:05 understanding, on the charter, we only vote it up or

09:26:07 down.

09:26:08 We can make suggestions or recommendations to them but

09:26:10 only vote it up or down.

09:26:12 That's number one.

09:26:13 Number two, we welcome any documentation you have to

09:26:17 help substantiate our vote.

09:26:20 So if you have some, I suggest you give it to the clerk

09:26:23 or give to the Mr. Shelby so we can be made aware of

09:26:27 that.

09:26:27 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Sir, you are in charge of the

09:26:29 maintenance for the fire department?

09:26:31 >>> Yes, sir.

09:26:32 >> Were you ever consulted on this proposal that's

09:26:34 before us today?

09:26:36 >>> The last time we were talking about this was about

09:26:39 six months ago, and somehow or another it got shut down

09:26:46 for a little while and evidently was reintroduced.




09:26:49 It is my understanding of it, I was never made aware of

09:26:53 it.

09:26:53 I was made aware of it about 2:30 yesterday afternoon.

09:26:56 >> So you knew about this six months ago but you

09:26:59 thought it died?

09:27:00 >>> Correct.

09:27:01 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Okay, thank you.

09:27:02 >>> Thank you very much.

09:27:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Ms. Mulhern?

09:27:08 >>MARY MULHERN: I was just going to say considering

09:27:11 they hadn't heard about it, I would really consider

09:27:13 when we get to that item continuing it so that you

09:27:15 could --

09:27:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We'll take it up at that time.

09:27:21 I don't think we need to because --

09:27:24 >>MARY MULHERN: I am not going to move to continue it.

09:27:25 I just want you to know I am going to bring that up for

09:27:28 discussion.

09:27:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, we can talk about it during

09:27:31 discussion.

09:27:31 I think a number have questions about it.

09:27:35 So just understand -- that's okay.




09:27:42 Next speaker.

09:27:42 >> I'm here to address item 64.

09:27:46 The lowering of the purchasing threshold.

09:27:50 My name is Ed Kinley. I live on Barcelona street. Our

09:27:55 company is Jack Mar, Inc.

09:27:56 We have a contract with the city for the transportation

09:27:58 and disposal of the materials that are generated at the

09:28:02 Howard Curren plant that can't be processed.

09:28:06 It's a sandy grit is what it's called.

09:28:08 We transport that to a landfill and dispose of it.

09:28:13 We are also in the business of pelletized sludge,

09:28:19 marketing and providing other environmental services.

09:28:21 So this is a small contract for us.

09:28:25 It's generally valued between 50 and $100,000.

09:28:30 It depends on the quantity of materials that the Howard

09:28:36 Curren plant wishes to dispose of, generally between 20

09:28:40 and 25 tons of this material annually, and that would

09:28:43 represent about $100,000 threshold.

09:28:45 So we are moving that material and taking it off-site.

09:28:51 For us personally some issues beyond the cost

09:28:54 associated with the duplicity of more paperwork for the

09:28:59 purchasing staff.




09:29:00 And I think that's kind of the heart of the matter, and

09:29:02 the more burden to them and costs associated with it.

09:29:09 Personally, there are some issues that I see.

09:29:13 Basically you are reducing the volume of material that

09:29:15 we would remove by half.

09:29:17 So that's going to require, if we were successful to

09:29:21 win a second $50,000 contract, it's going to require us

09:29:24 to mobilize again in the cost associated with that

09:29:28 mobilization is going to increase.

09:29:30 Secondly, I notice that several times other

09:29:35 departments, agencies, would like to use our per ton

09:29:40 rate for the removal of these materials.

09:29:42 They can also piggyback on that contract.

09:29:44 So those departments, those agencies, it's going to be

09:29:48 a narrow window that they'll have to move and to accept

09:29:53 that pricing for us for a left-handed widget or

09:29:58 whatever they may be purchasing.

09:30:04 We only have half the time to tap the money to get

09:30:06 inside that window to take advantage of a competitively

09:30:09 bid price.

09:30:11 The purchasing department has gone to great lengths to

09:30:14 solicit bids and get the most competitive price.




09:30:17 There's quite a bit of paperwork associated just with

09:30:19 us submitting a bid, an annual bid, and if you are

09:30:24 going to do this, it's going to increase the volume of

09:30:28 paperwork that we have and the volume of paperwork that

09:30:30 the purchasing department is going to have, and in

09:30:33 addition it's going to limit that time that other

09:30:36 agencies can take advantage of our pricing.

09:30:39 So I would encourage you to think beyond just the cost

09:30:44 associated with the purchasing burden, and some of

09:30:47 those logistical issues associated with lowering this

09:30:51 threshold.

09:30:52 Thank you.

09:30:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

09:30:54 Anyone else at this time?

09:30:57 Okay.

09:30:58 That concludes our public comment then.

09:31:00 Councilman Miranda.

09:31:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I just want to make a blanket

09:31:03 statement.

09:31:04 I've heard from three vendors, by all the volume of

09:31:08 documents of paperwork that is going to control and be

09:31:12 excessive use.




09:31:15 We got computers.

09:31:16 Everybody is talking about the volumes of paper.

09:31:19 I would understand that 15, 20 years ago.

09:31:22 But the truth of the matter is there would be no

09:31:27 disruption and no service if the purchasing department

09:31:30 was to send you a 90-day thing after your first six

09:31:35 months and tell you give me the quote for the next six

09:31:40 months.

09:31:41 What is so difficult about thinking outside the box?

09:31:46 That guarantees you and the city about prices.

09:31:52 The price may be lower than it was before, or your

09:31:55 price may be higher based on the economic situations

09:31:58 that you're in.

09:31:59 So what I'm saying is, I'm trying to be as fair as I

09:32:02 can so that both the taxpayers and the recipient of

09:32:07 these contracts are both protected.

09:32:10 I don't know if they are or not under a yearly

09:32:15 contract, if you have an extension, and you have this

09:32:17 and you have the other.

09:32:18 Way want to do is not put this any more in a burdensome

09:32:23 situation but simplify it so that you get noticed, and

09:32:28 later on you are going to see what I am talking about




09:32:30 where an ad was placed, and in a great newspaper with

09:32:36 very small circulation for an over $8 million job.

09:32:41 So what I'm saying is, I'm not against you.

09:32:45 I'm here to prove a fact that we can do something

09:32:48 outside the normal routine of this government and any

09:32:51 other government.

09:32:53 It's time that we look forward, not look backwards.

09:32:56 Thank you.

09:32:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

09:32:59 At this time we will take up committee reports.

09:33:09 >> Alan Snell, is he here still?

09:33:13 Alan, this pertains to bicycles and I just want to let

09:33:16 you know that last week I mentioned that down in

09:33:22 district 1, which is the SoHo area, police officers

09:33:26 were actually the residents were asking the police

09:33:29 officers if they could be on bicycles, if the fund

09:33:35 weren't there, and I mentioned the businesses got

09:33:38 together and contributed $3,000 which is going to

09:33:40 purchase two bicycles.

09:33:41 And I didn't have all the names of the businesses.

09:33:45 I didn't mention any of them.

09:33:46 I want to let you know that it was the Tony, the lime,




09:33:51 the lodge, and -- there you go.

09:33:55 Bicycles for our officers in the district one.

09:33:58 >> Yes, that's fantastic to hear.

09:34:01 Your chief of police Jane Castor is a big bicyclist and

09:34:04 she's aware of the issue, and, you know, it's fantastic

09:34:09 that we will be working with police.

09:34:11 It's extremely gratifying to hear.

09:34:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.

09:34:14 We'll move to our committee reports.

09:34:16 Public Safety Committee, Councilwoman Miller.

09:34:19 >>GWEN MILLER: I move resolutions 1 through 10.

09:34:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.

09:34:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?

09:34:26 Opposes?

09:34:27 Parks and recreation.

09:34:29 Councilman Stokes.

09:34:31 >>CURTIS STOKES: I would like to move items 11, 13, sh,

09:34:38 15, pulling item 12.

09:34:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Pulling item 12 for highlighting.

09:34:43 Is there a second?

09:34:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'll second it.

09:34:45 But don't forget 13 had something electronic.




09:34:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

09:34:57 All in favor?

09:34:58 Opposes?

09:34:59 Okay.

09:35:01 Public Works Committee, councilman Miranda.

09:35:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move items 20 through 22.

09:35:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.

09:35:13 All in favor?

09:35:14 Opposes?

09:35:14 Okay.

09:35:15 Finance Committee, Councilwoman Mulhern.

09:35:18 >>MARY MULHERN: I move items 23 through 28.

09:35:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.

09:35:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.

09:35:26 All in favor?

09:35:28 Opposes?

09:35:29 Building and zoning.

09:35:30 Councilman Caetano.

09:35:32 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: 29 through 51.

09:35:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We are pulling item 30 for highlight.

09:35:41 Is there a second?

09:35:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.




09:35:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?

09:35:50 Opposes?

09:35:50 Okay.

09:35:52 Transportation committee, Councilwoman Capin.

09:35:56 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I move items 52 to 53.

09:36:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.

09:36:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?

09:36:05 Opposes?

09:36:08 Items for public hearing?

09:36:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 54.

09:36:13 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.

09:36:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?

09:36:17 Opposes?

09:36:18 Let me go back now and highlight two items, council.

09:36:22 Item 12.

09:36:23 On item 12, in our backup, we shared a success story

09:36:37 for the city and for council.

09:36:38 That is the museum, Kiley gardens, the whole waterfront

09:36:43 park and all that, was done by Skanska.

09:36:47 If you go back and look at that, the total amount of

09:36:51 those projects came in at 43, right at 43.1.

09:36:57 Of that, WMBE participation was almost 18%.




09:37:03 I think that deserves highlighting.

09:37:05 It is that kind of cooperation and involved

09:37:11 participation that I think goes well for the city, for

09:37:17 the administration and for council.

09:37:18 This goes back to our involvement with the small

09:37:23 business and WMBE ordinance, and this is the kind of

09:37:28 thing you want to see when you have this these large

09:37:32 contracts that minorities and women are benefiting from

09:37:36 these kind of contracts from the city.

09:37:38 So that is, I believe, a success story for Skanska, who

09:37:43 kept their word, and for the city and for this council

09:37:46 has done a great job on monitoring these kind of

09:37:49 contracts.

09:37:49 I wanted to highlight that and call that to your

09:37:52 attention and to the public's attention for us.

09:37:56 Okay?

09:37:57 And item 30.

09:37:58 Item 30 is where the real estate division, I guess, we

09:38:06 are giving over -- deeding over to Hillsborough County

09:38:11 the additional property that all around the Robert

09:38:17 Saunders library.

09:38:19 That library will be demolished and construction take




09:38:21 place April 20, and the cost of that project is 7.8

09:38:32 million so it's good to see the city participation in

09:38:34 that.

09:38:35 Council participation with the reconstruction of the

09:38:43 Robert Saunders library.

09:38:44 It's going to be a major piece along the central part

09:38:47 area, the Hillsborough Avenue area, and great

09:38:53 contribution to the core and to the city.

09:38:55 So I want to highlight those.

09:38:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Are they rebuilding the Robert

09:38:59 Saunders, or are they going to move it?

09:39:05 >> It's going to be there.

09:39:06 That's why we are deeding them the property.

09:39:09 They will have more space.

09:39:13 Build a new building, new structure altogether.

09:39:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I apologize to the chairmans of

09:39:20 those committees.

09:39:21 I move item 12 and 30.

09:39:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

09:39:24 Moved and seconded.

09:39:25 All in favor?

09:39:26 Opposes?




09:39:28 Thank you.

09:39:30 We will move now to the 9:30:67 items.

09:39:45 Second readings.

09:39:54 Eastbound

09:39:55 Item 55.

09:39:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to open items 55 and 36 -- 55,

09:40:09 36, 57, still at 9:30, and 58 through 60 which are also

09:40:14 quasi-judicial.

09:40:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

09:40:17 All in favor?

09:40:18 Okay.

09:40:20 Item 55, Mr. Fletcher?

09:40:24 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: City attorney.

09:40:25 This is the nonprofit ordinance that was before you all

09:40:28 previously.

09:40:29 I ask it be continued because we have received a number

09:40:31 of informational calls both within the city, outside

09:40:35 the city.

09:40:37 No objections per se.

09:40:38 I did make two changes that were very minor.

09:40:43 That's why you submitted a substitute ordinance and I

09:40:46 will just highlight this for you.




09:40:47 On page 2, some of the excluded items included

09:40:52 sponsorship defined in city code to include city staff

09:40:56 in support.

09:40:58 And to say including city services so it's clear to the

09:41:02 reader of this ordinance what that includes.

09:41:04 And then on the attached form that's available to the

09:41:08 nonprofits for their reporting, we added a space on the

09:41:11 top of the first page indicating the fiscal year for

09:41:14 which they reported.

09:41:16 That was not also on the form and those are two minor

09:41:20 housekeeping items that we recommend.

09:41:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I just want to say that I appreciate

09:41:25 you have done.

09:41:26 But just for the public sense, just quickly highlight

09:41:28 the two or three major things about the accountability

09:41:31 and the recording things that they have to provide to

09:41:34 the city for the public's sense.

09:41:36 >> It includes a number of items that really address

09:41:41 making sure there are no -- there are not any conflicts

09:41:47 of interest.

09:41:48 For instance, they have to keep minutes of their

09:41:50 meetings.




09:41:50 They have to have a conflict of interest policy, board

09:41:58 policy, anti-nepotism policy, and they need to report

09:42:03 to the city at the end of their fiscal year that they

09:42:05 have had those in place for their fiscal year and they

09:42:07 are complying with those standards.

09:42:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda.

09:42:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

09:42:17 Move an ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida

09:42:18 amending city of chapter --

09:42:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It's a public hearing.

09:42:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public wishing to

09:42:28 speak, please?

09:42:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I see no one.

09:42:31 Move to close.

09:42:31 >> Second.

09:42:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?

09:42:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move an ordinance of the City of

09:42:34 Tampa second reading city of Tampa, Florida, City of

09:42:38 Tampa, code chapter 2, article 8, City of Tampa ethics

09:42:43 code division 2 be subdivision 5 by adding section

09:42:46 2-525 standard of conduct and accountability

09:42:50 requirements for nonprofits provided financial support




09:42:52 by the city providing for severability, repealing

09:42:54 conflicts, providing an effective date.

09:42:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.

09:42:59 Record your vote, please.

09:43:07 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.

09:43:08 And that was a substitute motion, an ordinance.

09:43:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: A substitute, yes, ma'am.

09:43:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 56.

09:43:14 Item 56.

09:43:18 Anyone from the public wish to a degrees council on

09:43:20 item 56?

09:43:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.

09:43:22 >> Second.

09:43:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

09:43:26 All in favor?

09:43:27 Councilman Stokes, do you want to read that ordinance?

09:43:33 >> An ordinance presented for second reading, City of

09:43:35 Tampa, repealing Tampa code section 14-27 relating to

09:43:40 the impoundment of motor vehicles used to facilitate

09:43:43 prostitution and drug related crimes and providing an

09:43:46 effective date.

09:43:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Capin.




09:43:50 All in favor record your vote.

09:43:51 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.

09:44:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Items 57 through 60 require the

09:44:05 witnesses to be sworn.

09:44:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: At this time if you are going to be

09:44:07 addressing council please stand to be sworn.

09:44:09 If you are going to be speaking to council, you think

09:44:13 you are going to speak, not sure you are going to

09:44:16 speak, stand anyway and be sworn.

09:44:18 (Oath administered by Clerk).

09:44:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I ask that all written communications

09:44:30 relative to today's hearings that have been held for

09:44:32 public inspection at City Council's office --

09:44:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.

09:44:36 >> Second.

09:44:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And if you do speak, please be sure

09:44:41 you signed the sign-up sheet out side the City Council

09:44:45 chambers.

09:44:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That was seconded by Councilwoman

09:44:47 Capin.

09:44:48 Okay.

09:44:50 Anyone from the public.




09:44:52 Petitioner, do you want to come forward?

09:44:54 Yes?

09:44:58 >> Towanda Anthony, land development.

09:45:01 Item 57 requires certified site plans.

09:45:04 Site plans have been certified and provided to the

09:45:05 clerk.

09:45:06 Copies are available for council.

09:45:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: State your name for the record again

09:45:12 please.

09:45:12 >> Towanda Anthony, land development.

09:45:15 >> Wes teen, I have been sworn.

09:45:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Does anyone from the public wish to

09:45:24 address council?

09:45:26 >> Moved and seconded by councilman Caetano.

09:45:29 All in favor?

09:45:32 Councilman Stokes?

09:45:45 >>CURTIS STOKES: An ordinance presented for second

09:45:47 reading and adoption, ordinance rezoning property in

09:45:48 the general vicinity of 3328 South Dale Mabry Highway

09:45:52 in the city of Tampa, Florida and more particularly

09:45:53 described in section 1 from zoning district

09:45:55 classifications CG commercial general to PD planned




09:45:58 development, commercial telecommunications tower,

09:46:02 providing an effective date.

09:46:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?

09:46:07 Seconded by councilman Caetano.

09:46:10 Record your vote.

09:46:10 >> Motion carried with Capin, Mulhern and Scott voting

09:46:29 no.

09:46:29 >> Thank you.

09:46:34 Item 58.

09:46:35 Item 58.

09:46:36 Anyone from the public wish to address council on item

09:46:39 58?

09:46:43 9/11 move to close.

09:46:44 >> Second.

09:46:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?

09:46:45 Opposes?

09:46:46 Okay.

09:46:48 Councilwoman Mulhern, do you want to read it?

09:46:54 >> I move an ordinance being presented for second

09:46:56 reading and adoption, an ordinance of the city of

09:46:58 Tampa, Florida creating the multiple properties

09:47:02 designation to include properties located at 4505 and




09:47:05 4510 west Beach Way Drive and 4508 west Rosemere road,

09:47:11 4506 Sylvan ramble, 4521 west Azeele street, 704 South

09:47:17 Westshore Boulevard, 407 and 414 royal palm way, Tampa,

09:47:22 Florida as more particularly described in section 3

09:47:25 hereof as a local landmark providing for repeal of all

09:47:28 ordinances in conflict, providing for severability,

09:47:31 providing an effective date.

09:47:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.

09:47:34 Record your vote.

09:47:35 >> Motion carried unanimously.

09:47:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 59.

09:47:47 Anyone from the public wish to address counsel on item

09:47:50 59?

09:47:51 Anyone from the public?

09:47:52 Motion to close.

09:47:52 >> So moved to have close.

09:47:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?

09:48:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move an ordinance presented for

09:48:03 second reading, an ordinance of the City of Tampa

09:48:06 designating the Roy Jenkins swimming pool, located at

09:48:08 154 Columbia drive, Tampa, Florida, more particularly

09:48:12 described in section 3 hereof, as a local landmark




09:48:14 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict

09:48:16 providing for severability, providing an effective

09:48:17 date.

09:48:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Capin.

09:48:20 Record your vote.

09:48:21 >>GWEN MILLER: There's something wrong with it.

09:48:37 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Yes.

09:48:47 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes.

09:48:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.

09:48:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.

09:48:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes.

09:48:53 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.

09:48:58 >>CURTIS STOKES: Yes.

09:48:59 >> Motion carried unanimously.

09:49:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 60.

09:49:02 Anyone from the public wish to address council on item

09:49:04 60?

09:49:05 No one from the public.

09:49:16 Item 60.

09:49:16 >>GWEN MILLER: I move to adopt the following ordinance

09:49:17 on second reading. An ordinance of the city of Tampa,

09:49:17 Florida, amending Tampa comprehensive plan definition




09:49:22 section by adding definition as more particularly

09:49:25 described in section 2 below, amendment to Tampa

09:49:30 comprehensive plan chapter 3, objective 19.7 and

09:49:33 associated policies as more particularly described in

09:49:35 section 3 below providing for severability, providing

09:49:38 an effective date.

09:49:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.

09:49:42 Record your vote.

09:49:43 >>GWEN MILLER: It still won't work.

09:49:52 >> Motion carried unanimously.

09:49:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Need to move the resolution.

09:49:57 >> Move the resolution.

09:49:58 >> Second.

09:49:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

09:50:00 All in favor?

09:50:01 Opposes?

09:50:02 Okay.

09:50:05 We are ahead of schedule, council.

09:50:07 But we can take up some items.

09:50:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Looking at the items that don't

09:50:16 necessarily require council to take any action

09:50:19 specifically to a resolution on ordinance I look as 66,




09:50:22 67 or 68 can be taken up.

09:50:25 >> Item 68 relate to have the legal department and

09:50:39 after a motion of council to prepare and discuss

09:50:41 recommendations relating to your noticed proceeds for

09:50:45 quasi-judicial hearing, the rezoning special use

09:50:48 permit, et cetera.

09:50:49 I have submitted to City Council on workshop agenda, I

09:50:52 submitted a memorandum to City Council where I outline

09:50:54 what our recommendations are as well as the code

09:50:59 language which we are suggesting.

09:51:01 I can go through this or I can just answer questions,

09:51:04 whatever the pleasure of council is.

09:51:05 But just generally, the things that we are addressing,

09:51:17 the notice of people --

09:51:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This is designed to cure the problem

09:51:21 we had on Channelside pretty much.

09:51:24 I know we had a lot that didn't get notice in the

09:51:28 condos.

09:51:29 So this will cure that problem?

09:51:32 >>JULIA COLE: First of all, one of the problems we had

09:51:35 in our code is we didn't have a good definition of what

09:51:38 "the list" was.




09:51:39 This defines what the list is and where comes from.

09:51:42 In fact when I surveyed other jurisdictions they are

09:51:45 more specific on what the list is.

09:51:46 So we have gone ahead and taken that into consideration

09:51:49 with these code provisions.

09:51:50 The second part of this, some of our other issues on

09:52:04 occasion relate to our good neighbor notice process,

09:52:07 the way our good neighbor -- there's a lot of business

09:52:18 associations, other associations of general interest

09:52:20 which are considered part of our registered

09:52:25 neighborhoods organizations.

09:52:26 So this would provide an opportunity and provide a

09:52:29 situation where we could create just a general list and

09:52:33 in fact I took this language from the county of how

09:52:35 they handle it.

09:52:36 They have more generalized list.

09:52:38 And then you can register to receive notice.

09:52:47 It provides an opportunity for other organizations to

09:52:49 register, to receive notice within certain areas of the

09:52:52 city.

09:53:02 This really would be something that an organization can

09:53:04 go online, and the good neighbor notice is sent today




09:53:14 to the officially registered neighborhood association,

09:53:17 but I wanted to make clear for the record it doesn't

09:53:18 change what the officially registered neighborhood

09:53:20 association would be in addition to them.

09:53:23 We also put in some more specific parameters for if we

09:53:39 hear through the grapevine a sign has been taken down,

09:53:42 it allows us to notify that property owner and make

09:53:44 sure they put it back up.

09:53:46 We also better define what it means in our code if you

09:53:49 don't have notice perfected before the hearing, and if

09:53:53 you don't have notice perfected after the hearing.

09:54:00 If no notice is perfected, we always say go ahead and

09:54:03 continue it to perfect notice.

09:54:05 This actually codifies that practice so you are

09:54:08 consistent with every single property.

09:54:09 It provides an opportunity that we have done that if

09:54:14 they are able to show that they can perfect notice

09:54:16 through an affidavit, we would go ahead and have

09:54:19 allowed that opportunity to occur just codifying that

09:54:22 making sure we are clear and consistent.

09:54:25 Finally, what is not in here but the intent of this is

09:54:28 to consolidate all of our notice proceeds for all of




09:54:30 our quasi-judicial proceedings.

09:54:33 You do hear a lot of quasi-judicial proceedings, that

09:54:38 come before City Council but there's a number of boards

09:54:40 and City Councils that have quasi-judicial proceedings,

09:54:43 and all of the notice requirements are different an it

09:54:45 becomes a little confusing and a little difficult to

09:54:48 figure out which process you are in.

09:54:49 So part of this exercise since we were going ahead and

09:54:52 revamping our notice requirements is to go ahead and

09:54:54 follow all the notice requirements into one section,

09:54:57 and so it will take us some time to pull those sections

09:55:00 but I think it's very important, and you know I have

09:55:02 been on a mission to try to consolidate our practices,

09:55:05 but this is just another opportunity that we are going

09:55:07 to go ahead and take to consolidate those processes.

09:55:11 That's really in a nutshell, as I said, I provided you

09:55:15 a memo with all the bullet points with the language,

09:55:18 because this is a procedural change, it does not

09:55:20 require review by Planning Commission.

09:55:24 It's simply revamping procedures and going ahead and

09:55:26 consolidating procedures.

09:55:28 So it is required to go through a Planning Commission




09:55:30 process.

09:55:31 It isn't required to go through our twice a year

09:55:33 chapter 27 process Ba because we can make procedural

09:55:36 changes.

09:55:37 So I leave it to the pleasure of council whether or not

09:55:39 they want to direct the legal department to go ahead

09:55:41 and put this in ordinance form and move this forward to

09:55:44 come to City Council.

09:55:45 I do want to just state for the purposes of the record

09:55:48 that a piece of this that relates to this registry, we

09:55:52 are still working with the IP to get that up and

09:55:56 running.

09:55:57 Even if we adopt this tomorrow.

09:55:58 Based they still need time to change their process and

09:56:02 their system to allow this registry to occur.

09:56:04 So I would encourage that we go ahead and we can get

09:56:07 this on the books so we may have an effective date

09:56:10 that's a little further out just for purposes of

09:56:12 assuring that we have the technology in place to allow

09:56:14 this registry to occur.

09:56:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Questions by council on this?

09:56:19 How much.




09:56:21 For moving expeditiously on this.

09:56:22 >>MARY MULHERN: I did have one question.

09:56:25 The first point before you talked about the online

09:56:38 registry, what are we doing to cure the problem with

09:56:40 the condo association as opposed to --

09:56:45 >> That's what we are doing.

09:56:46 We are allowing the condo -- there's a variety of

09:56:51 different types of organizations.

09:56:52 These condo associations that are within an area that

09:56:56 they have in our neighborhood a association, you have

09:56:58 business associations that are in a greater

09:57:00 neighborhood association area, and this would cure that

09:57:02 problem because it would allow a condo association to

09:57:04 be say, now what?

09:57:05 We would like separate notice in this area, and we want

09:57:08 to be able to register for that notice.

09:57:10 And that would make sure that those types of

09:57:13 organizations have that opportunity that they really

09:57:16 don't have today.

09:57:17 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to point out that there's

09:57:21 not really anything that complicated about registering.

09:57:23 I mean, seems like they could call up or mail their




09:57:29 information -- e-mail their information.

09:57:30 I don't see a lot of complication or staff time in

09:57:39 that.

09:57:39 Getting the online registration to work, I would hope

09:57:42 that wouldn't be a problem.

09:57:43 I can see where it would be, but they should be able to

09:57:48 call in.

09:57:51 Nothing complex about it.

09:57:53 >>JULIA COLE: In order to ensure that it's in a system

09:57:56 that everybody has access to.

09:57:58 Because remember once you make this a requirement if

09:58:00 you mess it up somewhere down the line, if a staff

09:58:03 person takes in information and doesn't get all the

09:58:06 right people, you now have a notice failure.

09:58:08 What we would like to is have a very uniform unified

09:58:13 process in place.

09:58:14 So that way we know -- that's kind of what we have

09:58:16 already done with the officially registered

09:58:19 neighborhood association.

09:58:20 I'm not suggesting it's going to take a super long

09:58:22 time.

09:58:23 What I am saying is what we'll need to do is make sure




09:58:26 that those are available in order to make that portion

09:58:28 of it effective, because again, once you put this in

09:58:32 our code, if it doesn't get disseminated correctly then

09:58:38 we have notice problems.

09:58:39 It doesn't seem like it should be that complicated and

09:58:41 I don't think it will be that complicated.

09:58:43 I just want to make sure we have our ducks in a row

09:58:46 before we implement.

09:58:47 >>GWEN MILLER: All right.

09:58:48 Motion, please.

09:58:50 We need a motion.

09:58:59 Two weeks?

09:59:00 >> I am going to ask for a little longer if you don't

09:59:02 mind because I am going to have other codes, 30 days

09:59:06 would be fine.

09:59:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That would be a meeting on November

09:59:11 1th.

09:59:11 The next regular meeting is December 2nd.

09:59:14 November 18th --

09:59:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: December 2nd?

09:59:17 That's fine.

09:59:17 So the motion would be December 2nd.




09:59:19 Second to the motion?

09:59:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.

09:59:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

09:59:23 All in favor?

09:59:24 Opposes?

09:59:25 Okay.

09:59:27 We have a couple of minute before ten, whatever item we

09:59:31 can take real quick.

09:59:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I don't know if anybody wants to take

09:59:35 up 66.

09:59:36 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Administrator for public works,

09:59:46 utility services.

09:59:47 Item 66 has to do with the number of handicapped

09:59:51 parking spaces that we have downtown.

09:59:55 And we submitted a memo to council.

09:59:57 We do meet the requirements oh on all street parking.

10:00:01 We meet the requirements in all of our garage parking.

10:00:03 We meet it in most of the surface lots.

10:00:07 There's a couple of surface lots that we mentioned in

10:00:10 there.

10:00:10 One of them is the Hart lot which is being sold under

10:00:13 Campbells.




10:00:14 We have a lot across the street we are going to be

10:00:16 restriping soon so we have a couple of surface lots

10:00:18 that we still need to work on.

10:00:20 But other than that we are in compliance with the

10:00:22 requirements of ADA.

10:00:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I guess the question is, also, I

10:00:32 attended one of these ADA meetings and the concern is

10:00:35 when a lot of people are coming downtown they are not

10:00:37 finding, I guess, enough parking spaces.

10:00:39 I want to verify, one, that we did have enough.

10:00:42 Secondly, around the courthouse, around county center,

10:00:47 have you all taken a look at that in terms of the

10:00:50 layout?

10:00:54 Certain areas downtown, people have a tendency to visit

10:00:56 more and especially those who fall understood the ADA

10:00:59 criteria.

10:00:59 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: We will be glad to look there

10:01:02 further.

10:01:03 However, for on street parking people with a

10:01:05 handicapped placard can park there at no cost for a

10:01:09 four-hour period.

10:01:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: But they don't know it because that




10:01:12 came up.

10:01:12 They really don't.

10:01:13 So we may need to communicate that.

10:01:17 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: People take advantage of that every

10:01:19 day downtown.

10:01:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I was at a meeting where all these

10:01:22 people were saying it was an issue.

10:01:24 So I think we need to find a way to communicate that so

10:01:27 they will be aware of that.

10:01:28 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Can you pass to us that group?

10:01:30 We will be glad to contact them.

10:01:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We'll do that.

10:01:34 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: I can address 67 while I'm here.

10:01:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

10:01:39 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: This is a question about the impact

10:01:43 fees.

10:01:44 And Bonnie Wise submitted a memo to council answering

10:01:50 the questions about what amount of moneys were

10:01:54 collected by district.

10:01:58 And what amount of moneys were spent by district.

10:02:00 And was revenue in each zone spent in the immediate

10:02:03 area?




10:02:04 Again, I maybe didn't do a good job of explaining this

10:02:09 the last time I was up here on this, but the district

10:02:12 is the smallest geographical boundary that we keep

10:02:15 track of for transportation impact fees.

10:02:18 We don't go smaller than that.

10:02:20 We don't look by block or by portions within the

10:02:25 district.

10:02:26 So we limit it by district.

10:02:28 All those moneys must be spent, spent within the

10:02:31 district and are collected just within the district.

10:02:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That was the issue raised by

10:02:42 councilman Caetano.

10:02:43 I guess he was asking for a more thorough report.

10:02:46 I know at the budget hearing you did talk about that at

10:02:49 length.

10:02:49 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Got a report by Bonnie Wise.

10:02:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I know we did.

10:02:54 Any other questions on that?

10:03:04 >>MARY MULHERN: I wanted to ask as Mr. Steenson asked

10:03:06 if we could get this same report, and thanks for

10:03:08 providing that, starting in 2004.

10:03:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, the report he was asking for is,




10:03:16 made a motion that you take a look at the WalMart and

10:03:19 the traffic so we can come back and adjust if we need

10:03:24 to.

10:03:24 I thought we asked for a report back the first of the

10:03:26 year but he's saying --

10:03:29 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: I think we had cleared for a short

10:03:32 period of time after the WalMart opened and I think he

10:03:35 was requesting that it be a longer time.

10:03:37 We are good with that.

10:03:38 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay, that's fine.

10:03:40 But that's not way was asking for.

10:03:42 He was asking that you go back to 2004, because that's

10:03:45 when the impact fees were -- he did ask for that.

10:03:51 No?

10:03:54 >> Come forward to clarify that, please.

10:03:56 >>MARY MULHERN: I thought I heard him say that.

10:04:03 >> I believe what I was asking for is the report that

10:04:05 they presented to you by Bonnie Wise was 2008 --

10:04:10 2009-2010.

10:04:11 I'm here to suggest maybe to get a better picture that

10:04:15 they do the impact fees collected and spent by zones

10:04:17 back in 2004.




10:04:21 >>MARY MULHERN: That's what I'm asking for.

10:04:23 >> Instead of two years, it's like six.

10:04:29 >>MARY MULHERN: That's what I'm talking about.

10:04:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What were you asking us to continue

10:04:34 until January and February?

10:04:37 >> Oh, that was the motion made at the second public

10:04:39 hearing regarding a report by December 2nd on any

10:04:44 irregularities regarding the WalMart.

10:04:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

10:04:49 >> Sorry for the confusion.

10:04:51 >>MARY MULHERN: I wasn't confused.

10:04:53 So if you could -- that's going to take some time, but

10:04:57 maybe you could bring back at the same time.

10:05:01 I'll make a motion to bring the report on WalMart, to

10:05:07 continue that later than December 1st to February.

10:05:10 Is that what you said?

10:05:12 >> February.

10:05:15 >>MARY MULHERN: So if you bring those back in February

10:05:19 we can make that one motion.

10:05:20 The impact fee, breakdown from 2004 to 2006 or '7.

10:05:29 And then the report on the traffic impacts.

10:05:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?




10:05:37 Moved and seconded -- seconded by Councilwoman Capin.

10:05:44 All in favor?

10:05:46 Opposes he's?

10:05:47 Thank you very much.

10:05:47 Thank you, sir.

10:05:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Although this is great when you look

10:05:53 at it in today's standards, what happened down the

10:05:55 road, 10, 15 years from now, if this set location needs

10:06:02 some additional services by the city, and there's

10:06:06 another building going down at the other end of Gandy

10:06:09 either way, or into close proximity, and you can't use

10:06:12 that money for this that needs it, that's the problem.

10:06:19 It works in the immediate confine of time.

10:06:21 But when you stretch out time, things change, buildings

10:06:24 decay, things become not so humanistically correct, and

10:06:30 then we are hampered by the amount of moneys you can

10:06:32 spend in another location, for the location that's new

10:06:37 that you would have the money to satisfy the needs of

10:06:39 that location.

10:06:40 That's my only concern.

10:06:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.

10:06:45 We'll take up our 10:00 items.




10:06:48 Item 61 is a we need to open the public hearings.

10:06:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.

10:06:58 >> Second.

10:06:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

10:07:00 All in favor?

10:07:01 Opposes?

10:07:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, I don't believe the

10:07:05 witnesses -- were sworn in for 61, or were they?

10:07:12 >>> I was sworn in at the previous swearing.

10:07:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Okay, sorry.

10:07:17 >>> Dennis Fernandez, historic preservation design

10:07:20 manager here on item 61 which is a property tax

10:07:24 exemption application for 407 south royal palm way

10:07:28 owned by Michael and Giselle ward.

10:07:43 The owners went through measures to restore the

10:07:46 appearance of the structure and to remove inappropriate

10:07:50 additions including a swimming pool which someone had

10:07:55 previously added to the front yard of the structure.

10:07:57 That was relocated to a more appropriate place in the

10:07:59 rear.

10:07:59 This application is consistent with the Secretary of

10:08:01 Interior standards rehabilitation.




10:08:05 In reviewing the project it doesn't meet the criteria

10:08:07 established by the department of state and exceeds the

10:08:10 spending threshold for the program.

10:08:13 It is our recommendation that the project is consistent

10:08:14 with the City of Tampa's historic property tax

10:08:18 exemption ordinance as submitted.

10:08:20 If you have any questions, I will be happy to answer.

10:08:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions from council?

10:08:25 Anyone from the public wish to address council?

10:08:27 Anyone from the public?

10:08:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.

10:08:31 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Second.

10:08:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?

10:08:32 Opposes?

10:08:33 >>THE CLERK: Mr. Chairman, on this particular item I

10:08:37 have not received the ordinance for this.

10:08:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Legal?

10:08:42 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.

10:08:50 If we can continue this item we can have an ordinance

10:08:52 for you later today.

10:08:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move it to the 1:30 agenda.

10:08:56 Would that that be fine?




10:08:58 >>REBECCA KERT: I would appreciate that.

10:09:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move top item 61.

10:09:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: To bring back the ordinance to be

10:09:07 read.

10:09:07 All in favor?

10:09:09 Opposes?

10:09:10 Item 62.

10:09:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Move the resolution.

10:09:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.

10:09:21 >>CINDY MILLER: Director of growth management

10:09:23 development services.

10:09:24 This is a resolution to approve Alessa agreement, a

10:09:28 license agreement between the city of and ClearWireless

10:09:31 for telecommunications equipment on top of the Centro

10:09:36 Ybor garage, and this is equipment, not a cell tower.

10:09:39 It will look very similar to existing equipment that is

10:09:41 already on that particular rooftop.

10:09:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.

10:09:45 >>MARY MULHERN: My question -- and I think I was the

10:09:48 one that asked to have this continued from the consent

10:09:53 agenda last time -- was that when you look at the

10:09:57 length of the contract and the amount from information




10:10:03 I got from talking to people in the industry, because

10:10:06 this is a historic district, I think we could have

10:10:11 negotiated for higher amounts.

10:10:14 It doesn't look like any of that has change.

10:10:17 Did you go back and talk to them?

10:10:20 Or are we still at the same amount starting with

10:10:24 15,000?

10:10:26 >>> Before we had put this in, we had already consulted

10:10:30 with our real estate division, the manager of that.

10:10:33 This is consistent with an existing piece of equipment

10:10:36 that's already there from another company.

10:10:38 This is consistent with the same dollar amount.

10:10:42 It is also consistent with what we hear of what private

10:10:45 entities are deriving for this type of equipment.

10:10:48 And so, therefore, we did not see where we were able to

10:10:52 necessarily extract any additional rental for that

10:10:54 purpose.

10:10:55 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, I think the reason -- you know,

10:10:58 what I heard from people both in the business community

10:11:01 and Ybor and people in the cell phone or cell tower

10:11:05 industry was that because this is a historic district,

10:11:08 then there's really not -- there's very few




10:11:12 opportunities to locate these.

10:11:13 I just wish we had driven a harder bargain.

10:11:18 Because there's already one there, when was that placed

10:11:20 there?

10:11:21 >> Just in the last couple of years.

10:11:23 The other situation we are looking at is whether there

10:11:25 will be other additional possibilities.

10:11:27 Depending upon the type of equipment, the

10:11:30 configuration, the height of existing buildings, we are

10:11:32 going to be looking at whether there is other

10:11:34 opportunities other than on this particular parking

10:11:36 garage.

10:11:37 The good thing is, this is the city deriving the

10:11:40 revenue.

10:11:40 We are also working with the wireless companies and

10:11:43 other telecommunications companies to see if there is

10:11:46 other opportunities for some of the various historic

10:11:49 property owners.

10:11:50 So we have this possibility.

10:11:51 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay, thanks.

10:11:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion by Councilwoman Miller,

10:11:59 seconded by councilman Miranda.




10:12:01 All in favor?

10:12:04 Opposes?

10:12:06 >>MARY MULHERN: Nay.

10:12:08 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried westbound Mulhern voting

10:12:10 no and Caetano being absent.

10:12:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 63.

10:12:27 >>GREG SPEARMAN: Director of purchasing.

10:12:28 I'm here to talk to you about item 63.

10:12:31 And if we could have the staff to please bring up the

10:12:34 PowerPoint.

10:12:37 City Council has asked the administration to look at

10:12:50 ways to reduce costs and to save money.

10:12:52 And one of the ways to do that is through what is known

10:12:55 as just in time inventory management.

10:12:58 One particular type of just in time inventory

10:13:00 management we would like to talk to you about today is

10:13:03 a contractor operated score.

10:13:06 So let's look a little more closely at what just in

10:13:10 time inventory management is.

10:13:12 Just in time inventory management is a strategy for

10:13:14 inventory management which maintenance, repair and

10:13:18 operating supplies are delivered from the vendor or




10:13:21 supplier immediately before they are need at the time

10:13:25 needed and the date in operation of by city government.

10:13:31 By example of a modern just in time management contract

10:13:34 would be, the supplies are typically ordered one day

10:13:39 and they are delivered to you the next day without the

10:13:42 need to store and stock inventory on hand.

10:13:45 Let's talk a moment about how just in time works.

10:13:47 Just in time would change the current method of

10:13:50 acquiring inventory items.

10:13:52 Just in time suppliers would stock city employee

10:13:55 guaranteeing minimum stock levels at contract pricing

10:13:59 for the city's use.

10:14:01 Departments would then place orders using the Internet

10:14:03 and just in time suppliers would deliver items to

10:14:07 predetermined city locations within the time

10:14:10 established within the JIT contract.

10:14:15 Let's talk about one type of just in time inventory

10:14:18 management.

10:14:18 This is known as a contract operated parts store,

10:14:24 defined aspirated on-site fleet maintenance part

10:14:27 inventory and distribution center designed to replace

10:14:30 the in-house operation currently being utilized.




10:14:35 So what are some of the types of things that you would

10:14:38 include in a contract operating parts store?

10:14:40 Some of the major categories would include things like

10:14:43 air conditioning parts and accessories, batteries,

10:14:46 belts, hoses, brake parts and accessories, just to name

10:14:50 a few items listed on this item before you.

10:14:55 Now, what would be the benefit for having a contract

10:14:57 operated parts store?

10:14:59 First of all, you will see a reduction in number of

10:15:03 purchase orders, invoices to be purchased by the city.

10:15:08 There will be fewer city dollars tied up in inventory,

10:15:11 on the shelf, elimination of problems associated with

10:15:15 over and understocking, elimination of obsolescence.

10:15:18 You see about an 8% savings on contract pricing from

10:15:21 fleet maintenance and we know that because we issue an

10:15:24 RFP about eight months ago and from that process we did

10:15:27 identify the savings of parts.

10:15:30 You also see about a 36% savings on personnel and

10:15:33 operating expenses.

10:15:35 And the big benefit and values that you have in 80%

10:15:39 contracted on demand rate improving availability of

10:15:42 needed parts and timeliness of fleet repairs.




10:15:49 Under a contract for operated parts store contract, the

10:15:52 terms include inventory buy back of existing stock on

10:15:57 hand, 80% on demand guarantee of inventory parts, the

10:16:03 contract would be for a term of five years, renewable

10:16:06 by lease agreement of five additional one-year period

10:16:10 and would also include termination clause, ten-day

10:16:14 notice with cost or 30 day written notice without cost.

10:16:20 The next slide is really the most compelling because it

10:16:22 basically gives you a very detailed comparison of our

10:16:26 current process today.

10:16:29 With what a contract operated parts store process would

10:16:33 be.

10:16:33 The stock availability on demand would go from 44% to

10:16:38 80%.

10:16:39 44% to 80%.

10:16:40 And what that means is we would be able to repair

10:16:43 vehicles much faster because of the higher on demand

10:16:46 rate of parts.

10:16:47 The staff salary would decrease from 343,551 to 194.

10:16:53 The annual bids will reduce from 23 to 1 so you will

10:16:58 see a lot of things there on the staff side.

10:17:01 On the administration side.




10:17:03 The average monthly purchase order to reduce from 50

10:17:06 per month down to zero.

10:17:09 And you would also see an average monthly increase,

10:17:13 invoices, rather, and checks processed from 300 down to

10:17:17 one.

10:17:19 So let's look at the current staffing.

10:17:22 Under current staffing we have five employees at this

10:17:25 location with an annual payroll of $343,551.

10:17:32 Understood the proposed contract operated parts store

10:17:36 concept, you would also have five employees from the

10:17:41 contract vendor with an annual payroll of $194,000.

10:17:47 This next slide basically shows you the contract

10:17:49 operated parts store savings to the city.

10:17:52 The first thing you see is that we will save about

10:17:55 $232,000 annually in parts.

10:17:58 We would also have a one-time buying of existing

10:18:01 inventory which has a value of about $300,000.

10:18:04 And the total first year savings would be $681,551.

10:18:08 The annual reoccurring savings would be 381,551 or

10:18:12 about $2 million over a five-year period.

10:18:17 Hillsborough County has had existing successful

10:18:22 operation since 2010, and this is a quote from Deborah




10:18:27 Benavidez, Hillsborough County fleet management.

10:18:30 Also the Palm Beach County sheriff's office has an

10:18:32 existing operation as well.

10:18:37 So what we are proposing is to reissue the RFP.

10:18:41 This particular JIT initiative would definitely

10:18:45 increase efficiency and effectiveness within city

10:18:47 government.

10:18:48 It will lower costs, improve customer service, and with

10:18:51 the contract to initiate that within 60 days of

10:18:55 approval by City Council.

10:19:10 When you start giving increases you look to your left

10:19:13 and look to your right and some brothers and sisters

10:19:15 are not going to be here, and this is evidenced by this

10:19:18 today.

10:19:18 I can also tell you that just earlier, I spoke to the

10:19:23 gentleman, I believe Mr. Young from mother nature.

10:19:27 At that time contract -- I am not trying to get to 64

10:19:33 right now.

10:19:34 I am just bringing it up because this is a five year

10:19:36 contract, not a six month contract.

10:19:38 And then I looked at the batteries the other day.

10:19:41 And nothing wrong with doing what you are doing.




10:19:42 There's nothing wrong in buying $72,000 in my mind

10:19:47 serves me correct.

10:19:49 Systems I get a glitch but since I got very little to

10:19:52 do at the house all I do is read.

10:19:54 So I'm saying, do we deliver all the batteries at once

10:19:57 or deliver as needed?

10:19:59 So then I'm saying, have we gone out of the box?

10:20:02 And guess what happened to me.

10:20:05 My battery died.

10:20:07 So I went to Uncle Sam's down the street, from Gandy

10:20:14 and Kennedy.

10:20:15 Why did I go there?

10:20:16 Because my experience was that that 36-month battery, I

10:20:21 bought it 35 months and 12 days.

10:20:25 When I got there, they installed the battery for 1.09.

10:20:30 Brand new battery.

10:20:32 Then I started looking into the prices.

10:20:36 I didn't make any comparison with your prices, even

10:20:38 though I had them.

10:20:40 But I guarantee you that if we go out of the box -- and

10:20:43 there's nothing wrong with what we are doing legally --

10:20:46 but we just don't take advantage of the personnel




10:20:49 knowledge that we have in the city.

10:20:52 I can tell you that we can buy better, we can buy at

10:20:57 cost above some price to make a profit, because no one

10:21:01 sells something at a loss.

10:21:02 If you do, they are not going to be in business long,

10:21:06 including the City of Tampa.

10:21:08 I'm not going to dispute those figures.

10:21:10 But there's all the elements that have not been

10:21:13 included in those figures.

10:21:17 What if there was no contract?

10:21:18 What if you did your own purchasing and made bids from

10:21:22 other vendors that maybe didn't qualify.

10:21:25 Later on I am going to tell you that I am going to

10:21:27 bring up the information that I read regarding the -- I

10:21:41 can tell you when you start looking at this form of

10:21:43 contract which is all legal, there's other ways of

10:21:45 doing things.

10:21:46 I don't know what the gentleman spoke about earlier,

10:21:51 Davis -- I forget his New Business item right now.

10:21:54 I'm bad with names but I'm pretty good with figures.

10:21:57 I don't know if they were addressed five months ago,

10:21:59 six months ago, yesterday, or the day before.




10:22:03 If we are trying to lower our costs and employee, just

10:22:06 tell me that's what we are trying to do, we are trying

10:22:09 to clean out the city and hire new employees at half

10:22:12 the cost.

10:22:13 Tell me that and I can accept it.

10:22:15 But when we go around and saying we go from 300 bids to

10:22:18 one bid, of course you are.

10:22:20 It's a five-year bid.

10:22:22 So I don't have time to digest all the numbers and the

10:22:25 figures as they come up because they are only here for

10:22:28 microseconds.

10:22:29 But I can tell you that it has to change the way we do

10:22:35 business.

10:22:35 It's got to be outside the box.

10:22:39 At one time we were going to buy some TV sets many

10:22:41 years ago when I was here, and I saw the bid.

10:22:45 And I went to different vendors, the same brand, the

10:22:47 same density, and guess what.

10:22:51 Just because you have a state bid, or you piggyback on

10:22:55 somebody else's bid, these the easy way.

10:22:58 You go out and look at what you are buying and price it

10:23:01 somewhere else, you would be surprised what you find.




10:23:04 That's all I have got to say, Mr. Chairman.

10:23:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.

10:23:07 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

10:23:09 I just want a couple things.

10:23:11 And I'm glad Mr. Miranda brought this up because we

10:23:14 have several things on the agenda today to discuss that

10:23:18 are three-year, five-year contracts.

10:23:22 And I don't -- I think as council, it's important for

10:23:26 us to look at those, the length of those contracts

10:23:30 seriously considering that this council and the

10:23:35 administration will be turning over in March, and so it

10:23:44 seems sort of -- doesn't really make sense to me at

10:23:48 this point to be entering into these long-term

10:23:54 arrangements when we are going to have new people

10:23:56 governing in success.

10:24:00 Really, my problem with this, and I really would

10:24:08 discourage this council from passing anything today

10:24:11 with regard to this, considering that this did come up

10:24:14 last year, and we had the opportunity to speak with

10:24:18 some of the ATU people, people from the fire

10:24:23 department, who had some really good data and good

10:24:27 arguments against privatizing this.




10:24:30 And what I would compare it to is kind of like you are

10:24:34 asking us to go from being able to take a really

10:24:39 specialized equipment, you know, fire prevention

10:24:43 equipment, our police cars, I don't know, does this

10:24:48 include -- let me ask you this question first.

10:24:50 What are we talking about?

10:24:52 We are talking about police and fire?

10:24:56 >>GREG SPEARMAN: We are talking police and fire, public

10:24:58 works.

10:24:59 >>MARY MULHERN: And public works.

10:25:00 Okay.

10:25:00 So we are talking about this really specialized

10:25:03 equipment.

10:25:03 And instead of being able to take your Nissan to your

10:25:10 Nissan dealer, you are going to have to go to NAPA,

10:25:15 instead of having specialists who only works on fire

10:25:23 trucks or garbage trucks, who know the equipment of

10:25:27 that we have, who knows -- you have been dealing with

10:25:31 for years, and you are going to go to customer service

10:25:34 clerks.

10:25:35 It just doesn't make sense from an efficiency

10:25:39 standpoint that you are going to lose the institutional




10:25:43 knowledge, and also even if you are hiring new people,

10:25:50 these people are specialists, and this is special

10:25:52 equipment, and it's really the main part of what we

10:25:57 provide and a huge amount of our tax dollars go to

10:26:01 this.

10:26:02 So I just don't think it makes sense, and I think in

10:26:05 the long-term you are going to see -- I mean, you have

10:26:10 an emergency and need a part for your fire truck, you

10:26:14 are going to call NAPA, they are going to be open?

10:26:18 I mean, it doesn't make sense that you are going to put

10:26:20 this in the hands of privatize this when it's a very

10:26:24 specialized proposition, and the people know the parts

10:26:29 and the equipment.

10:26:32 And I think that we need to trust and support our

10:26:40 long-term employees that know what they are doing.

10:26:46 But let me just say one thing that I would like to say

10:26:49 to the new council members, is you really owe

10:26:55 yourselves and the public the opportunity to really

10:26:57 look at this and get all the information before you

10:27:00 make a decision on this, because when I heard about

10:27:03 this six or eight months ago, I was very convinced by

10:27:09 the professionals who were in these jobs now that we




10:27:14 shouldn't privatize this.

10:27:15 So at the very least I think this needs to be continued

10:27:18 until we can -- everyone can look at all the

10:27:21 information that's out there.

10:27:23 And look at other municipalities who have done this.

10:27:26 Because what I understood was that there were

10:27:29 municipalities including Hillsborough County that were

10:27:31 not real happy with having privatized this.

10:27:33 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Spearman, you said we have

10:27:39 five mechanics down there now and we are still going to

10:27:41 have five?

10:27:43 >>GREG SPEARMAN: These are not ex-mechanics.

10:27:45 These are inventory employees.

10:27:48 We are not talking about mechanics.

10:27:49 We are talking about employees who run the inventory

10:27:52 operations.

10:27:52 Not mechanics.

10:27:53 We are talking about inventory employees.

10:27:56 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: So the mechanics we have, we will

10:27:57 keep them?

10:27:58 They will be employed?

10:28:00 >>> That's correct.




10:28:01 >> I guess everybody else got the same information from

10:28:04 Ron Irvin, mechanical supervisor, where they were

10:28:06 talking about an after cooler that cost them $1500, and

10:28:10 it's easy to take it off and put a new one on.

10:28:14 That's the easiest way.

10:28:15 But they ended up fixing this thing for $150.

10:28:19 So if we are going to be a parts replacement place,

10:28:23 which is very easy to do, a lot of businesses do that

10:28:26 because the consumer is going to pay for it.

10:28:28 But we are the consumers, the taxpayers, and we need to

10:28:31 watch that.

10:28:33 $150 to 1500 is a lot of money.

10:28:38 So I think we need more time on this.

10:28:41 I'm particularly not ready to vote on this today.

10:28:43 I want to do a little more research.

10:28:53 >>CURTIS STOKES: When I originally made this motion on

10:28:55 September 2nd we were in the midst of the throes of

10:28:57 budget discussion, and Mr. Miranda mentioned thinking

10:29:01 outside the box as relates to different ways that the

10:29:05 city conducts its business.

10:29:06 The City of Tampa currently has an AA rating through

10:29:11 Fitch.




10:29:12 And just a couple of things that Fitch highlighted

10:29:14 about the City of Tampa, it says that Tampa's financial

10:29:17 profile is expected to weaken with deficits in fiscal

10:29:20 years 2010-11.

10:29:22 Reserves are expected to remain healthy, nonetheless,

10:29:25 but to produce break-even or surplus results through

10:29:31 revenue enhancements including tax rate increases or

10:29:34 additional costs measures.

10:29:36 The financial profile at risk.

10:29:40 It also goes on to say that management also reports

10:29:43 that it's property tax rate increase may be considered

10:29:47 for fiscal year 2012 budget year.

10:29:50 When I originally made this motion in September

10:29:53 2nd, this is the information I was going by.

10:29:56 And thinking outside the box different ways that the

10:29:59 city could try to save additional funds as it relates

10:30:02 to the budget going forward.

10:30:04 Because next year is going to be a very bleak year

10:30:10 financially for the city and I was just looking for

10:30:11 ways to try and offset or to get ahead of the budget

10:30:16 crisis that we are going to have next year.

10:30:18 Thank you.




10:30:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This is my second term -- my second

10:30:25 time and I will honor your two speaking operations,

10:30:28 sir.

10:30:29 I would just like to ask, when you saw the difference

10:30:32 of 350,000 versus the new salary of 1,992,000 in

10:30:39 savings, let me ask this question.

10:30:42 At 350, is that a pure cost of the employees?

10:30:45 Or is that cost as that piece of paper flows through

10:30:50 different departments and there's additions added onto

10:30:53 to that cost?

10:30:54 Which is it?

10:30:56 >>GREG SPEARMAN: That cost basically represents two

10:30:58 things, the salary savings, and also the savings and

10:31:01 the parts costs.

10:31:02 >> So there's no add ons for any departments that

10:31:06 handle that paper at all, none?

10:31:09 >>> No.

10:31:10 That's correct.

10:31:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.

10:31:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, as I recall, we took this issue

10:31:16 up before under the, I guess, prior board, the other

10:31:22 council persons here, and councilman Caetano requested




10:31:28 this come back.

10:31:29 Let me just tell you what my concerns are relative to

10:31:32 this.

10:31:32 One is you're right, councilman Miranda, we have to

10:31:38 think outside the box.

10:31:39 You're right, councilman Stokes, that's going to be an

10:31:41 issue relative to this budget next year, the year

10:31:46 before that and the year before that and the last three

10:31:48 years.

10:31:49 We pretty much balanced the budget, as you look at it,

10:31:52 to make some adjustment as well as taking some money

10:31:55 out of reserves and that's a known fact.

10:31:58 Hard to do that next year because your reserves right

10:32:01 now are at 20 or 21% of your budget.

10:32:05 However, I think that when you are looking at this and

10:32:10 you talk about what the private sector is able to do, I

10:32:13 think, one, why can't government operate like a

10:32:18 business, like private sector in that regard?

10:32:22 And this is what councilman, I believe, is talking

10:32:26 about thinking outside the box.

10:32:28 Two, I think there has to be a dialogue with every

10:32:31 employee that may find themselves in this situation,




10:32:34 allow them the opportunity to come up with creative

10:32:36 ideas that can save the city money.

10:32:40 Believe me, you have people that are working for the

10:32:42 city for 20, 30 years, probably know how to save money,

10:32:48 know better than we do or those that sit in the offices

10:32:52 looking at paperwork and that kind of thing.

10:32:54 So you have employees out there.

10:32:55 Give them the opportunity to bid on these kind of

10:32:59 things, or come up with suggestions and ways how to

10:33:01 save the cost.

10:33:03 And I look at overall, the savings really are go to be

10:33:07 in eliminating those five positions.

10:33:09 Now I know you say we are going to save 282,000 parts,

10:33:16 and that's because the private sector is going to have

10:33:18 them.

10:33:18 There has got to be a way that government can do the

10:33:21 same thing thinking outside the box, how can we save in

10:33:24 terms on the parts and that sort of thing.

10:33:26 So I think there's going to be opportunity for this

10:33:29 administration or the future administration for this

10:33:33 council to have been think outside the box, think of

10:33:36 ways how to get employees to think outside the box,




10:33:38 because ultimate ultimately their jobs are on the line

10:33:42 when you look at this.

10:33:43 I think they need to have input and say, I'm willing to

10:33:46 bid, I'm willing to look at and give some ideas, how we

10:33:49 can help save our jobs, how to help save taxpayers

10:33:52 money.

10:33:53 So I think it's going to take this whole government,

10:33:56 city government, going to take this council, going to

10:33:59 take all of us trying to find ways how to balance the

10:34:01 budget without borrowing from reserves, and finding new

10:34:05 creative ways on how to do bidding on at a cheaper

10:34:11 cost.

10:34:12 So that's where I am on this particular issue.

10:34:21 >>GREG SPEARMAN: Councilman Scott, if I could make one

10:34:23 comment.

10:34:24 The mayor has implemented an efficiency and effective

10:34:26 task force.

10:34:27 You may have heard the acronym ETF that has looked at a

10:34:32 number of different ways in which the city can save

10:34:34 money, and that has been rolled out not only to the

10:34:38 department heads and administrators, but to all city

10:34:41 employees, and a number of ideas have come in, and a




10:34:44 number of those ideas have been implemented.

10:34:46 So that has been an ongoing process.

10:34:48 The reason that this particular proposal offers savings

10:34:54 is because we are talking about long-term employees who

10:34:57 have maxed out at their salary limits, and also because

10:35:02 we are talking about tapping into a supplier who has a

10:35:05 vast distribution network in place than is able to

10:35:10 offer us phenomenal pricing that we simply can't get

10:35:13 because we don't buy that volume of parts.

10:35:15 So we are benefiting from their buying power in the

10:35:18 marketplace and those savings are passed onto the city.

10:35:20 That's why we are able to save in terms of those parts.

10:35:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And I understand, Mr. Spearman.

10:35:26 I hear that.

10:35:27 I recognize administration has this committee in place.

10:35:31 But I heard an employee coming forth this morning

10:35:34 saying will you afford us the opportunity?

10:35:36 I heard that from your own city employee this morning.

10:35:39 Is that right?

10:35:39 So evidently they are not aware of this committee or

10:35:44 they have not been given an opportunity to put together

10:35:47 something.




10:35:47 So what I am talking about is, in this parameter here,

10:35:52 with this venue, the employees need opportunity to say,

10:35:56 okay, let's put together a proposal that will help save

10:35:59 our jobs and save taxpayer dollars, because that's what

10:36:02 we talk about.

10:36:04 That's exactly what we are talking about. We are

10:36:05 talking about shifting these jobs over to the private

10:36:08 sector.

10:36:10 Pretty much.

10:36:10 And at some point, you know, Mr. Spearman, at some

10:36:16 point, the next administration and this council has to

10:36:19 look at everybody's position, everybody's position in

10:36:23 terms of how you are going to cut costs, how you are

10:36:26 going to save money and move forward.

10:36:28 That's a fact.

10:36:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.

10:36:35 Mr. Chairman gave me the right to speak for the third

10:36:37 time.

10:36:38 Let me say this.

10:36:38 I agree in philosophy with what you are saying.

10:36:41 However, when it comes to the mechanics and the bolts

10:36:43 and nuts, that company, whichever company it is, has




10:36:48 the supply, we have the need for the demand.

10:36:50 Whether you buy it today or you buy on the 364th

10:36:56 day of the calendar that company is going to service

10:36:58 you at that same price.

10:36:59 But what I'm saying is, there's nothing wrong when

10:37:02 buying from that company that wants to give you the

10:37:06 discounted price.

10:37:07 Not at all.

10:37:08 If you are not going to order 10,000 batteries, you are

10:37:11 going to order the batteries that you need as it

10:37:15 becomes available for those individuals to replace

10:37:17 those batteries.

10:37:18 So I am just using that as an example.

10:37:21 So what I am saying is there is no need for inventory

10:37:24 if you have a company that's willing to give you the

10:37:26 supply on a demand use basis.

10:37:28 There's nothing wrong with that philosophy.

10:37:30 So what I'm saying is, where is the difference in

10:37:32 savings of the cost if you already have a company that

10:37:36 will negotiate with you and give you those supplies as

10:37:39 you need them instead of buying them in bulk?

10:37:42 I don't know.




10:37:43 I don't have an answer to that myself.

10:37:45 That's why I'm asking questions.

10:37:47 And if that company wants to give that break, and they

10:37:50 hold the inventory, I see nothing wrong with that.

10:37:54 Nothing at all.

10:37:55 And that should save you some money.

10:37:57 Really doesn't save you the money.

10:37:58 Saves you the interest on the money that you are

10:38:01 putting forward, and today's interest rate that you are

10:38:04 going to get at the bank is 1.5, with a lot of money in

10:38:08 the bank.

10:38:08 So that's what it's going to save you.

10:38:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, thank you, Mr. Spearman.

10:38:15 And I do take note, I want to note again that this came

10:38:18 forward as a request of this council.

10:38:20 So I want to note that, as a result of Mr. Councilman's

10:38:23 stoke's and councilman cab tan oh made a motion and

10:38:26 this council supported that motion for this

10:38:27 information.

10:38:27 So no action is required.

10:38:30 By council.

10:38:31 Thank you again for your work and for this information.




10:38:33 >>GREG SPEARMAN: Okay.

10:38:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We'll move to item 64.

10:38:37 >> If we could have the staff bring up the PowerPoint

10:38:47 for the next item, please.

10:38:51 This particular presentation deals with item 64 with

10:39:03 regard to the City of Tampa purchasing thresholds.

10:39:08 This was a result of a motion that was made on

10:39:10 September 2nd by councilman Miranda, seconded by

10:39:13 councilman Stokes.

10:39:15 What I would like to do is to a basically go over an

10:39:18 outline with you that talks about the concerns with the

10:39:21 proposed resolution.

10:39:23 I want to talk a little bit about the current process,

10:39:26 the comparison of staffing requirement, the impact of

10:39:29 lowering the purchasing threshold, the City of Tampa

10:39:32 threshold comparison with the Tampa Bay area

10:39:34 jurisdictions, and some conclusions.

10:39:38 The current process as adopted by City Council in 1992

10:39:43 and has been in place almost 20 years, and was created

10:39:46 to streamline procurement for small dollar purchases,

10:39:50 and in particular to make it easier for our small

10:39:54 business community to do business with the City of




10:39:55 Tampa by decreasing the wait time and other associated

10:39:58 factors that come into play with the small business.

10:40:03 It's important to understand that all bids are

10:40:06 competitively bid, they are a warred with policy and

10:40:13 city charter.

10:40:15 The departments initiate the procurement request to

10:40:18 purchasing, pay 5,000 and 100,000 for the department,

10:40:27 and they are awarded to the lowest responsive and

10:40:30 responsible bidders.

10:40:31 And bid results before City Council on a weekly basis.

10:40:37 Now, what are some of the typical types of items we are

10:40:39 talking?

10:40:42 Automotive tires, you heard batteries, filters, small

10:40:47 parts, services, and occasionally a piece of heavy

10:40:51 equipment such as a backhoe which will cost about

10:40:53 $75,000.

10:40:57 Now, bids that are currently over $100,000 are approved

10:41:01 by City Council.

10:41:02 They are coordinated through city administration, and

10:41:08 ton City Council for approval of the agenda process.

10:41:11 Now this chart shows the comparison of our current

10:41:14 process of awarding bids and contracts under 100,000




10:41:17 as, as opposed to the lower limit of 50, and what you

10:41:23 see there in the, you are going to add a significant

10:41:26 number of steps to the process and therefore increase

10:41:28 the amount of time it takes to award a small dollar

10:41:31 contract.

10:41:33 This chart basically shows what that looks like from a

10:41:39 graphical point of view in terms of or current process,

10:41:42 being around the 15-day mark, and the process would

10:41:47 basically take us to about 40, 45 days.

10:41:53 There's also some uncertainty in the small business

10:41:58 community, whether or not something that appears on the

10:42:00 agenda is going to be approved.

10:42:01 So there's additional staff times involved, additional

10:42:04 times for City Council to look at these small dollar

10:42:06 purchases, and there is also concern within our small

10:42:10 business community about how long it's going to take to

10:42:14 award them.

10:42:15 As we compare the City of Tampa with other Tampa Bay

10:42:18 jurisdictions, we see that Tampa is right in line with

10:42:22 what other jurisdictions are doing with regard to their

10:42:25 bid threshold.

10:42:27 Pinellas County is at 250.




10:42:29 Hillsborough County is 100,000.

10:42:31 City of St. Pete 100,000.

10:42:33 City of Clearwater 100,000.

10:42:34 The City of Tampa 100,000.

10:42:38 Adopted in 1992.

10:42:39 And it's been in place for almost 20 years.

10:42:42 Only Pasco is beneath us at 25,000.

10:42:46 So what are the impacts of lowering the threshold?

10:42:49 Well, the staff workload is going to increase because

10:42:55 now we have to turn these into resolutions.

10:42:58 The time required to obtain approval would increase and

10:43:02 therein would be some impact on the business community

10:43:04 by having to wait much longer and the degree of

10:43:07 uncertainty in terms of whether or not award is even

10:43:10 going to be approved by City Council.

10:43:15 We also will have some missed opportunities, more

10:43:23 procurement for purse because we are spending time

10:43:25 processing these small dollar purchases.

10:43:28 Decreasing the available staff time to do research in

10:43:31 terms of best practices in the industry.

10:43:34 For purchasing.

10:43:35 And less staff time available to really provide good




10:43:39 customer service, enhance customer service.

10:43:43 So our conclusion, the current bid threshold has been

10:43:48 in place for 18 years.

10:43:50 It is an efficient, effective and timely method to

10:43:53 procure a small dollar purchase.

10:43:57 There's no indication for the city or the county any

10:43:59 problems with this approach, no protests have been

10:44:01 received.

10:44:04 City Council has received the small dollar purchases

10:44:06 between 50 and 100 on a weekly basis.

10:44:09 The existing City of Tampa threshold is consistent with

10:44:12 our neighboring Tampa Bay jurisdictions.

10:44:15 Lowering of the bid threshold would unnecessarily

10:44:17 increase the workload for the administration and for

10:44:20 the City Council.

10:44:23 Additional time to approve small dollar purchases would

10:44:26 add greater value and use for high-dollar more complex

10:44:29 procurement.

10:44:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Miranda?

10:44:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I am not trying to lead into

10:44:41 everything here, but to me 50,000 is not small money.

10:44:44 It's big money.




10:44:46 That's number one.

10:44:46 Number two, I had three individuals that came to speak

10:44:50 about small business and so forth and so on.

10:44:53 I wonder how they got notified.

10:44:58 Do you know?

10:44:59 >>GREG SPEARMAN: The question, please?

10:45:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The three individuals that spoke

10:45:04 today about small business I believe were -- do you

10:45:07 know how they got notified about this meeting?

10:45:10 >> We did alert our small business partners about this

10:45:13 item being on the agenda today just to inform them so

10:45:16 that they would be informed of what was going to be

10:45:18 happening.

10:45:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And nothing else added?

10:45:24 I'm a crime knoll gist.

10:45:26 Nothing else added?

10:45:27 Just come in and speak for your behalf or come in and

10:45:29 speak for the city?

10:45:30 Which was it?

10:45:31 >> We made them aware this item was on the agenda and

10:45:34 if they had any concerns certainly they were free to

10:45:37 come to speak to City Council.




10:45:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Now, we do have computers, correct?

10:45:41 >>> We do have computers.

10:45:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Are those computers capable of

10:45:44 flagging something 90 days out?

10:45:46 You are talking about a 45 day versus 18 if I remember

10:45:48 the graph.

10:45:51 Those computers, can you put them in and red flag

10:45:53 something that's coming up within 90 days from the

10:45:57 term?

10:45:58 And you already have the vendors that have applied and

10:46:01 received the first call and lowest bid.

10:46:04 Does that mean that all the bids within 45 days of

10:46:10 ending that contract from 100 to be 50 might change?

10:46:14 Or will never change?

10:46:16 >>> We are currently flagging those today using our

10:46:19 computers.

10:46:20 They are doing it --

10:46:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So the staff time is reduced

10:46:23 somewhat by computers?

10:46:24 >>> Well, it would be increased if we lowered the

10:46:27 limit.

10:46:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I didn't ask answer that question.




10:46:29 This is like a debate for president.

10:46:31 I asked the question, don't computers help reduce that

10:46:36 staff time?

10:46:37 >>> We have been using computers for many years,

10:46:40 councilman Miranda.

10:46:42 Yes, they do have.

10:46:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So what is wrong with notifying all

10:46:44 the bidders that came in on that item, and mainly oils

10:46:52 and batteries and tires that most of the big vendors

10:46:55 have in stock.

10:46:56 Am I correct?

10:46:57 >>> Well, the problem is --

10:46:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I didn't ask you the problem.

10:47:00 I asked you if these items are in stock.

10:47:02 >>> Inventory items are in stock.

10:47:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All right.

10:47:06 Thank you.

10:47:06 >>GREG SPEARMAN: But the challenge we have, councilman

10:47:09 Miranda, is that many times he would do not know until

10:47:15 a department requests to buy something so there is no

10:47:18 way to predict 100 percent of the time when the police

10:47:20 department something, the water department, the fire




10:47:22 department, and these small dollar purchases hit us all

10:47:26 the time.

10:47:26 So what we do is try to turn those around quickly so

10:47:29 they are able to provide the service they can for the

10:47:32 public, but, you know, if we have to go through an

10:47:35 extended process, to impact the city administration,

10:47:40 City Council, but also using to some extent --

10:47:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Again 50,000 to you is small.

10:47:47 50,000 some me is big.

10:47:48 Again those departments that you are addressing, sir,

10:47:50 have also the computers and the necessary, and they can

10:47:53 tell you by the use of those items how much of that

10:47:57 product they are going to use for a year and how much

10:47:59 is divided, over, under 100 and under 50,000.

10:48:04 So the knowledge of that individual, whoever they are

10:48:07 that handle these computers, I'm not a computer guy.

10:48:10 I can do this and tell you the same thing that computer

10:48:13 is going to tell you based on the necessity of the city

10:48:16 for the last ten years.

10:48:18 So what I'm saying is, if an individual can do it

10:48:22 without a computer, how can we not say that a computer

10:48:24 can't tell you, or sen it up to a space station and




10:48:30 bring it back, that we can't do this with a computer?

10:48:33 >>> Mr. Miranda, the problem is not the computers or

10:48:37 using those.

10:48:37 It's the Tampa International additional steps we are

10:48:39 having to go through that's creating additional work

10:48:41 for the staff, for the administration, and also the

10:48:43 wait time.

10:48:45 That's what the problem is.

10:48:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Again, I don't think there is that

10:48:48 much difference, and the pricing in todays economy, in

10:48:53 my opinion, more than likely will be beneficial to the

10:48:56 city, if you are going to start looking outside the box

10:49:00 for different items to buy will be a lot more savings

10:49:05 than what you are using now and the city may -- notice

10:49:08 I said may save money.

10:49:10 It could save money and no one could debate that.

10:49:13 >>> We do competitive solicitation on all of our

10:49:16 procurements, unless it's --

10:49:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, we need to move.

10:49:24 We are a little behind here.

10:49:26 Councilwoman Mulhern.

10:49:27 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to say a couple of




10:49:30 things.

10:49:30 I think it's interesting that the vendors we heard from

10:49:34 today, mothers organic actually benefited from

10:49:39 council's involvement because they brought forward the

10:49:45 fact that because we were continually renewing bids

10:49:51 with another company that we were spending a lot more

10:49:55 money and we were duplicating steps as far as moving

10:50:00 recycled materials around.

10:50:01 So this council by actually reviewing contracts has

10:50:11 saved the city, the taxpayers, a lot of money.

10:50:13 And that was just one vendor that spoke today.

10:50:18 I think what this would do is, really this is about

10:50:23 providing more transparency.

10:50:25 And Hillsborough County, they have a higher bid level

10:50:28 because they don't -- the county commission actually

10:50:35 oversees that administration.

10:50:36 So they are more clued in on what's going on.

10:50:39 For council, if it doesn't come in front of us, it

10:50:45 doesn't come in front of us.

10:50:47 I think we would be reducing time.

10:50:51 We have, and I think this has happened a number of

10:50:54 times since I have been here, and probably when we look




10:50:59 at an expenditure we question it.

10:51:02 And those are extra eyes.

10:51:04 And those are, you know, your elected council people

10:51:07 looking at the spending. So if we are only looking at

10:51:11 about above 50,000 new now, if we are looking at the

10:51:14 smaller contracts, which I think the majority of city

10:51:16 contracts are probably fall below the $100,000 level,

10:51:21 that's more opportunity for us and the public to see

10:51:25 how we are spending our money, and to make sure that we

10:51:28 are looking at not just the fairness but the openness

10:51:39 of the bidding process.

10:51:40 And then the other thing is, if we have this additional

10:51:48 step, which is basically putting it on the council

10:51:52 agenda, and when you keep talking about this, you know,

10:51:55 all the incredible staff time involved with putting

10:51:58 something in front of City Council, I think it is true

10:52:02 we are just talking about notice to the bidders earlier

10:52:08 so that you can get on the agenda.

10:52:10 And the other thing, the administration has created all

10:52:13 of this bureaucracy about getting, you know, what you

10:52:17 have to do to notify people, and going up through the

10:52:22 whole chain of command instead of just, you know,




10:52:25 getting it on the agenda.

10:52:26 I think to me, you are exaggerating what really needs

10:52:31 to be done.

10:52:32 You are asking that we get notified earlier, and that

10:52:35 it be put on the agenda.

10:52:39 So, yeah, I can see there's a little more staff time

10:52:42 probably for the clerk.

10:52:47 But the other thing is the decision to come and, you

10:52:50 know, the administration to spend a lot of staff hours

10:52:53 lobbying council so that we, you know, approve a bid.

10:52:58 That's a decision that the administration makes.

10:53:00 It doesn't have to spend all that staff time doing it.

10:53:03 So I would support this ordinance.

10:53:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. You know we are always talking

10:53:11 about small business.

10:53:12 What can we do to help small business?

10:53:14 How can we give growth to small business?

10:53:17 Tell me what would happen if we change the policy.

10:53:21 Would small business spend more time trying to do what

10:53:24 they need to do?

10:53:29 Tell me what you have to do.

10:53:30 >>GREG SPEARMAN: Councilwoman Miller, it would




10:53:34 basically have a ripple effect.

10:53:36 One of the constant complaints from --

10:53:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Spearman, before you do that I was

10:53:41 going to be wait and ask a question.

10:53:44 Let me just ask you this.

10:53:46 Do you have any data to support what you are about to

10:53:48 say?

10:53:51 The negative impact on small business and minorities?

10:53:55 Do you have any information you can provide to council

10:53:57 that we can take a look at?

10:54:00 >>GREG SPEARMAN: The only information I can give you

10:54:01 is the anecdotal data that we got from the disparity

10:54:04 study.

10:54:05 Regarding the amount of time it takes to get through

10:54:07 the process, and try to get bids and contract awarded.

10:54:14 I have been in purchasing for 25 years, and I can tell

10:54:16 you that at every place I have ever worked, city of

10:54:20 Savannah, Georgia, Charlotte, North Carolina, Houston,

10:54:23 Texas, Tampa, Florida, the message is consistent.

10:54:26 It is the same.

10:54:27 Small businesses looking to do business with

10:54:29 government, without a lot of red tape, without a lot of




10:54:33 paperwork involved, without a lot of wait time.

10:54:36 That is a consistent thing.

10:54:38 Way hear from them is that when they know, they don't

10:54:44 know how to plan their work and their schedule.

10:54:46 They don't know whether or not they need short-term

10:54:48 financing or if they are going to be able to use the

10:54:50 money that they have until the job.

10:54:54 So to the greatest extent possible that we can make

10:54:56 this process easier for them, I think, is doing not

10:54:59 only the administration a big favor in terms of having

10:55:05 to do more with less, but we are also benefiting the

10:55:08 folks out in the community who benefit from getting

10:55:10 these jobs through the city.

10:55:12 It's a consistent thing I have heard all my life.

10:55:14 >>GWEN MILLER: I think we have to say it like it is

10:55:19 because in this time small business is having a hard

10:55:24 time anyway, and if we are going to hurt them anymore,

10:55:27 what can they do?

10:55:28 They are going to be out of business.

10:55:30 So I think we need to leave it just like it is.

10:55:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, still pretty much when I try to

10:55:37 make a decision, I try to make it based on information




10:55:40 that I have.

10:55:40 And I guess what I am looking for is, where is the

10:55:43 information that this administration provides to us,

10:55:48 that as a result of changing bids it will have a

10:55:50 negative impact on small business.

10:55:52 I hear it's a very common theme.

10:55:55 I understand that. But you have to have some data to

10:55:58 substantiate that.

10:55:59 There's got to be something to show us, okay, here is

10:56:02 the negative impact upon minorities and small business

10:56:05 as a result of this change.

10:56:05 >>GREG SPEARMAN: The only other information I can

10:56:08 offer to you, Chairman Scott, is we look at the

10:56:11 statistics from the small local business enterprise

10:56:13 program, and we can see the trend of an increase in

10:56:16 participation, and where those contract values fall

10:56:21 within that range, and you can see over time that those

10:56:23 numbers have gone up.

10:56:25 Also the number of SMBs participating programs.

10:56:32 36789 we had a young lady, a company she is with, and

10:56:35 she testified that she wanted it to stay as it is.

10:56:40 And she was saying it was working for her.




10:56:46 It must be working.

10:56:47 She came down this morning to tell us, don't change it,

10:56:50 it's helping her out.

10:56:51 I agree with her.

10:56:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.

10:56:57 My second time?

10:56:58 And I promise there won't be a third.

10:57:06 Can you send council members to all bids under 100,000?

10:57:12 >> That's correct.

10:57:12 >> Are they bids up to $99,999 estimates?

10:57:18 >> They have been on occasion, yes.

10:57:20 >> So you meet the threshold, not you directly.

10:57:22 I don't take this personal with anyone.

10:57:24 So then that bid is qualified on the 100,000.

10:57:27 Now let me say this.

10:57:30 One of the reasons, just one.

10:57:32 First of all 50,000 to me is a lot of money.

10:57:35 Second of all, you are using JOCS on some of these

10:57:39 projects or were using JOCSs up to $99,999.

10:57:48 The threshold of 100,000.

10:57:49 The same thing we are talking about helping small

10:57:52 businesses in this area is paying an additional 3 to 4%




10:57:55 on the offset just of that one bid?

10:58:00 Let me tell you where they got that information.

10:58:02 Only two ways can any company get any information from

10:58:04 the city.

10:58:05 Under public records request or they come in and not

10:58:11 you, sir, you meaning us, give them all the information

10:58:14 they put into a database, create a book, give it to you

10:58:18 and you pay them 4% for you giving them the indication

10:58:21 to do business in the city.

10:58:23 How wonderful is that?

10:58:24 That's what I am driving at.

10:58:26 That's why it's anti-small business, not pro small

10:58:29 business.

10:58:30 There is nothing wrong with a small business person at

10:58:34 50 or 100 if after the first six months period or three

10:58:40 months they are notified that that contract is coming

10:58:42 up along with the other bidders to submit a bid.

10:58:46 I'm not saying you have got to say with the same small

10:58:48 business person forever.

10:58:50 Absolutely not.

10:58:50 It would be to your advantage and the City of Tampa's

10:58:54 advantage and the taxpayers' advantage to review those




10:58:59 document to make sure we are getting the best buy.

10:59:01 Today I don't really know that's the case.

10:59:03 So I just told you exactly why.

10:59:06 And I'm not ashamed of that and I can defend that

10:59:09 stance anyway you want, sir.

10:59:10 >>> Any of those, councilman Miranda, that small dollar

10:59:17 purchase, we would be more than happy to sit down with

10:59:19 any council member and show you that.

10:59:21 We have all the documentation.

10:59:24 We are required to.

10:59:25 But if there's a question about any of that, we would

10:59:28 be happy to share that with you.

10:59:30 On occasion we do award between 50 and 100 contracts

10:59:34 renewals because the clause have been in it.

10:59:36 So what we do is go ahead and review on that basis.

10:59:39 But it's done based upon recommendation of the

10:59:42 department, it's done based upon the vendor

10:59:44 performance.

10:59:45 It's also done based upon how well that vendor compares

10:59:49 with pricing in terms of the current marketplace so

10:59:51 there is a thorough analysis that takes place in regard

10:59:54 to any renewal.




10:59:55 It's important to understand that we are taxpayers,

10:59:58 too, with the purchasing department.

11:00:01 We very seriously look at what's in the best interest

11:00:04 of the city.

11:00:05 We just don't rubber stamp anything.

11:00:07 The people, the men and women work very hard to make

11:00:11 sure citizens are getting the best bang for tax dollar.

11:00:14 They have been trained on that.

11:00:15 These are certified public purchasing agents who whose

11:00:21 training, certification, education know the best way.

11:00:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

11:00:28 Mr. Smith.

11:00:28 >> Darrell Smith, chief of staff.

11:00:40 I would like the opportunity just to provide some

11:00:42 comments based on my observations here in the council

11:00:44 chambers this morning, and particularly as it relates

11:00:47 to the ordinance that's before you.

11:00:52 That was enacted in 1992.

11:00:56 With the purpose of streamlining the procurement

11:00:59 process.

11:01:02 18 years ago.

11:01:04 And that ordinance has in it council oversight of any




11:01:09 contract that is completed within the 52 -- the 50 to

11:01:21 999,000 range.

11:01:23 And I would ask what is broken?

11:01:25 And I have heard comments about out of the box.

11:01:27 I have heard comments before we need to lean forward

11:01:30 and do business like the private sector.

11:01:34 What is broken now?

11:01:36 And why would we be considering going back to 1992,

11:01:41 when just in the last three years we have reduced city

11:01:43 staff by 13%.

11:01:47 Now, it is additional workload to accomplish these

11:01:50 transactions.

11:01:52 Why does council need to have review and transparency

11:01:57 over a $75,000 backhoe?

11:02:01 And, yes, we could look out 90 days and see a backhoe

11:02:05 requirement by the public works department.

11:02:07 But we have to go with lowest responsible bid.

11:02:10 And that's the day that the bid go goes out through

11:02:13 demand star to all of the vendors that are in the area.

11:02:18 You cannot do procurement on a transactional basis.

11:02:23 It has to be a volume basis.

11:02:25 It has to be standardized.




11:02:27 I don't even review transactions between 50 to $99,999.

11:02:33 Why?

11:02:34 Because there's a certain amount of staff time

11:02:36 available for the various work that we have required,

11:02:40 and the more we look at small dollar items the more we

11:02:45 focus on those items that don't rise to the requisite

11:02:48 level.

11:02:49 It takes away our time to look at the more important

11:02:52 large ticket items.

11:02:54 I can't provide data, Chairman Scott, on what the

11:02:58 statistics are with small businesses.

11:03:00 But there is no doubt an impact.

11:03:04 When I'm a small business, I see a demand star

11:03:06 transaction for a backhoe.

11:03:09 I submit a bid like everybody else by the deadline.

11:03:13 Within a week to ten days, the procurement department

11:03:16 can say up or down.

11:03:19 Under the proposed concept, I would have to wait three

11:03:22 weeks plus, probably even up to close to 40 days, in

11:03:26 order to fit it into a regular council agenda.

11:03:31 Again, what are you going to find wrong with a backhoe

11:03:35 that was procured in accordance with purchasing




11:03:37 policies and procedures with the lowest responsible bid

11:03:42 and of course the charter?

11:03:44 I would submit that if we approve this today we are

11:03:46 going backwards as a city.

11:03:47 Thank you, sir.

11:03:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a comment but I have to wait

11:03:55 to speak.

11:03:57 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I have a question.

11:04:01 In regard to JOCS, the way I understood it, I compared

11:04:07 this to what the insurance companies do when they come

11:04:12 out to adjust on your repair of your auto accident.

11:04:17 They know exactly what that fender, the paint, the

11:04:22 labor, everything is in there, and that's what they

11:04:25 use, and insurance companies do a lot of research in

11:04:30 order to use that system, because it saves money, and

11:04:35 it saves the insurance company money.

11:04:38 That's all I have to say about JOCS.

11:04:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I will say to this new comment in

11:04:44 terms of going backwards that if that's the case, then

11:04:48 wee when we start going backwards and start talking

11:04:51 about going back to privatizing, again if you are going

11:04:57 to use that, now if you want to apply it across the




11:05:01 board.

11:05:02 That's number one.

11:05:03 Number two is, anytime you bring the items you tell me

11:05:06 that you don't have any data to back up, you make a

11:05:10 qualifying statement, I can stand on it, and this and

11:05:13 that, but we don't have any data to substantiate that,

11:05:17 then we have a problem.

11:05:19 We definitely have a problem.

11:05:20 Because there ought to be some kind of data that's

11:05:22 there.

11:05:24 And you should be collecting that data ongoing through

11:05:29 Mr. Greg house's department.

11:05:31 So my concern is when you tell me you don't have

11:05:34 anything to back up what your position is, then I have

11:05:37 a real issue with that.

11:05:42 And my position is here, I want to support small

11:05:46 business and minorities in terms of the contract, doing

11:05:50 business with the city.

11:05:51 We also got to have information so we can make a sound

11:05:55 and prudent decision.

11:05:57 Now, councilman Miranda made the motion on this item.

11:06:00 I don't know how you want to proceed or anyone else,




11:06:02 for that matter.

11:06:03 Councilman Stokes?

11:06:05 >>CURTIS STOKES: I second the original motion by

11:06:07 councilman Miranda on the original motion September

11:06:12 2nd, as we were discussing budget issues and

11:06:16 talking about thinking outside of the box as relating

11:06:18 to small businesses.

11:06:22 Can we hear from -- I saw Mr. Davis in the back there.

11:06:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: If council requests someone to come up,

11:06:37 it's not a public hearing but you can request.

11:06:41 >>CURTIS STOKES: If he feels comfortable with that.

11:06:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What I would like to do is give the

11:06:54 administration before I -- the question I raised

11:06:59 relating to small business and minorities.

11:07:03 What is the whole impact to small businesses and

11:07:07 minority?

11:07:08 What's the negative impact on and how is it going to

11:07:11 increase and so forth?

11:07:13 Do you think you can provide that information?

11:07:15 >>GREG SPEARMAN: Chairman Scott, we don't have that,

11:07:20 but I would have to talk with the administration about

11:07:23 how we would get that, how long it takes to accumulate




11:07:27 it.

11:07:27 At this point I just don't have it.

11:07:30 So the amount of time it would take to get that, we

11:07:32 would have to certainly look at that, talk to Mr. Hart

11:07:35 to find out if he has that or how we go about getting

11:07:38 it.

11:07:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: When is the next report due?

11:07:43 Is it next week?

11:07:45 The next report that's due to us in terms of --

11:07:48 >>GREG SPEARMAN: I'm not certain about the date,

11:07:52 council.

11:07:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If I may ask one question.

11:07:54 Since you have 100 or more and there's only one by the

11:07:58 statements that were made that's in the stone age -- I

11:08:01 didn't say that, or way back, that was Pasco County.

11:08:05 If we could find out what they are doing at 25,000, and

11:08:08 how it compared, what benefit it is to them to have the

11:08:15 25, I would be more than happy to hold this for a later

11:08:18 date discussion, when that is brought in, in comparison

11:08:21 with what we are talking today.

11:08:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So 30 days give you enough time?

11:08:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Fine with me.




11:08:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 30 days, Mr. Spearman?

11:08:30 >>GREG SPEARMAN: I would say minimum of 30.

11:08:31 Perhaps more than that.

11:08:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's look at 30.

11:08:36 Let's oh go to our first meeting, December 2nd?

11:08:42 Let's place it on our agenda for December 2nd,

11:08:44 bring that data back to us.

11:08:45 I would appreciate if I could get it ahead of time, as

11:08:49 did this time.

11:08:50 You gave it to me weeks in advance so if I can get it.

11:08:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved to continue this to

11:08:55 December 2nd.

11:08:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

11:08:58 All in favor?

11:08:58 Opposes?

11:08:59 Okay.

11:08:59 Thank you very much.

11:09:00 We'll move to item 65.

11:09:13 Legal?

11:09:14 Anybody from the legal department here?

11:09:15 This is on the request by councilman Caetano and Stokes

11:09:18 to the election process.




11:09:25 Nobody here to address that then?

11:09:29 Okay, we'll come back to that item.

11:09:31 All right.

11:09:33 Item 69 is being continued.

11:09:38 This is the item on 34th street and Chelsea, an

11:09:41 accident occurred, with a death.

11:09:42 I understand that's an ongoing investigation, not

11:09:45 complete.

11:09:45 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Has that been continued?

11:09:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: February 2011.

11:09:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right then.

11:09:54 Item 70.

11:09:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: A recommendation of a bicycle

11:10:08 accident safety plan.

11:10:09 I did give you an update, the plan has not been adopted

11:10:12 by Hillsborough County Board of County Commissioners at

11:10:14 their October 6th meeting.

11:10:16 They did direct staff to bring back something to them.

11:10:19 I believe it's November 4th.

11:10:21 I don't have it in front of me.

11:10:22 But I have a draft in general in nature, a resolution

11:10:27 in support of the creation of a bicycle safety action




11:10:30 plan.

11:10:30 Council can move that agenda today, and again the

11:10:34 county will be taking up the issue in early November.

11:10:42 You can move the resolution if you wish.

11:10:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.

11:10:45 >>MARY MULHERN: Second?

11:10:46 All in favor?

11:10:48 Opposed?

11:10:50 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.

11:10:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 71.

11:10:52 >> I'm Kimberly cross, the director of human resources

11:11:08 here to provide an overview for you on item number 71

11:11:10 which is the voluntary wellness center services

11:11:13 contract with Care ATC.

11:11:16 If I could ask staff to please bring up the --

11:11:28 Currently the City of Tampa's health insurance plan has

11:11:31 over 10,000 members.

11:11:32 This includes our active employee population, our

11:11:35 nonmedicare retirees and their dependence.

11:11:39 For 2010, you will see a total spend for being active

11:11:44 population of $35 million that includes about $27

11:11:48 million of city funds and the balance being paid by




11:11:51 payroll deduction.

11:11:52 Our retirees do pay the full impact of their health

11:11:57 insurance coverage.

11:11:59 This benefit is provided for employees and retirees

11:12:04 under all bargaining unit agreements.

11:12:06 You will recall that the city is obligated to pay 100

11:12:08 percent of the individual coverage and 50% of the

11:12:11 additional dependent coverage under our agreement.

11:12:15 And we do that.

11:12:18 We have a goal as an employer of providing competitive

11:12:20 high quality benefits while effectively managing the

11:12:22 cost of those benefits for both the employee and the

11:12:25 city.

11:12:26 And it's important to know that because we are fully

11:12:29 insured through an outside carrier the cost of our plan

11:12:32 is based on claims experience, so each year our carrier

11:12:35 looks at our claims for the prior years, and determines

11:12:38 what our price will be.

11:12:42 Each year we conduct an annual plan review that's done

11:12:45 in conjunction with our benefits consultant Gallagher

11:12:49 benefits services, and in the early part of 2010 we

11:12:53 were notified by Humana that our premiums were expected




11:12:57 to increase by about 20%, and with that it was time to

11:13:00 get to work.

11:13:03 We had continuously looked for ways to make adjustments

11:13:06 to our plans, low impacts to employees and their

11:13:11 families but have great value to us in dollars.

11:13:15 And oaf the past years, we have made improvements or

11:13:18 changes such as requiring employees to use generic

11:13:22 prescription drugs, and for employees to insist on

11:13:27 using name brand drugs, they have to pay the difference

11:13:29 in cost.

11:13:30 Last year we were able to get a reduction across the

11:13:33 board from Humana because of our change in the

11:13:40 transplant program, and that was worth a million

11:13:43 dollars to us and had no real impact on employees at

11:13:45 all.

11:13:46 But I can tell you after looking at the plan this year

11:13:49 the staff and our consultant found there are really no

11:13:53 significant changes that we can make that would impact

11:13:56 the $20 -- the 20% increase.

11:14:00 So it's time to look at claims.

11:14:02 And what we found is that 8% of our claims drive 80% of

11:14:06 our costs.




11:14:06 So what's happening with those 8% of claims?

11:14:10 There are really five manageable conditions that lead

11:14:14 our large claims and you may not be surprised by what

11:14:17 they are.

11:14:17 They include high blood pressure, high cholesterol,

11:14:22 diabetes, tobacco use, and being overweight are or

11:14:25 having a high body mass index.

11:14:27 The diagnosis that can result from these risk fact

11:14:29 towers can have devastating effects on our employees,

11:14:33 retirees and their family.

11:14:35 They include things like strokes, heart attack, kidney

11:14:38 failure, vision loss, even amputation.

11:14:41 And cancer.

11:14:43 So how do we cover these risk factors early enough so

11:14:46 the treatment is most effective and our costs are

11:14:48 reduced?

11:14:50 We set in motion two requests for proposals to look for

11:14:54 an innovative approach that might help us crack the

11:14:58 code.

11:14:59 One for our health insurance carrier and one for

11:15:02 voluntary wellness centers.

11:15:03 There were two different evaluation committees that




11:15:06 were assigned to each of these RFPs, and the first

11:15:09 found that united health care has the best bid of our

11:15:13 insurance carrier for 2011.

11:15:16 You will be hearing more about that as that contract

11:15:18 comes before you in future weeks.

11:15:20 But certainly united has the largest network of

11:15:22 providers available, and they have a nationwide network

11:15:27 which helps with concerns that we had for our employees

11:15:31 who have college children that are out of town as well

11:15:35 as our retirees who live out of state.

11:15:38 They also have technology that we were very impressed

11:15:40 with, and they have some experience with wellness

11:15:42 centers.

11:15:45 Moving to the wellness center proposal, care TPC has

11:15:51 been doing this since 1998 and they have over 40

11:15:55 wellness centers in 15 states.

11:15:58 So we have been working together with these two

11:16:00 companies to for several weeks to ensure that we could

11:16:03 recommend to you a solution that has been the proven

11:16:06 approach that allows the city to stay under budget and

11:16:09 positively impact the five risk factors.

11:16:13 On the left side of this slide you will see




11:16:15 jurisdictions that are currently operating wellness

11:16:17 centers in the State of Florida.

11:16:20 On the right side you will see jurisdictions who are

11:16:23 either awaiting implementation of their centers, or in

11:16:25 the process of gaining approval.

11:16:31 So what is a voluntary wellness center?

11:16:34 Well, to utilize the best practice to reduce the rate

11:16:37 of cost escalation in the health plan.

11:16:39 And it would be available to City of Tampa employees,

11:16:41 non-medicare retirees and their dependents.

11:16:46 It will be managed by Care ATC physicians and staff.

11:16:50 This is really important to our employees that we have

11:16:52 a firewall between their personal medical information

11:16:54 and the city staff.

11:16:57 They will provide high quality, primary, acute and

11:17:01 urgent primary services and they will do that in many

11:17:03 ways, but one of which, which is key for our ability to

11:17:07 drive down costs, is to provide proactive wellness

11:17:11 screening that can uncover health issues early.

11:17:13 This is really done by making early morning

11:17:16 appointments from our covered employees, and retirees

11:17:20 and their dependents, where they will do a fasting




11:17:24 blood draw, see the doctor, and their blood will be

11:17:26 sent out for testing, they will get a full report that

11:17:29 covers a wide variety of different health profiles.

11:17:35 It's done in a dashboard type of report so that you

11:17:39 will see green means good to go, yellow light means

11:17:44 caution and red light means there may be an issue so

11:17:47 they can take that report once it's received at their

11:17:49 home address and visit either with their personal

11:17:51 physician, or with the wellness center to review that

11:17:56 report and get placed on a path to make improvements in

11:17:59 their health wherever needed.

11:18:03 It will be HIPAA compliance so that it is protected and

11:18:08 completely confidential and the recommendation is that

11:18:10 we have three convenient locations, and they will be

11:18:12 based on the geographical concentration of our planned

11:18:15 participants.

11:18:18 The benefits to the city primarily we are looking to

11:18:21 reduce the rate of cost escalation in the health plan.

11:18:27 The per visit cost will be cut in half.

11:18:30 Typically today, in our health plan, the average visit

11:18:33 to the doctor is about $95.

11:18:36 For an on-the-job injury under workers' compensation




11:18:38 the average visit is $115.

11:18:42 Under the Care ATC program, a doctor visit would be

11:18:47 estimated at less than $50.

11:18:50 All consumable medical supplies and prescriptions that

11:18:52 are held at the wellness center will be charged to the

11:18:56 city at cost.

11:18:57 And then the really exciting part is the positive

11:19:00 impact that we can have on these risk factors that

11:19:03 drive the cost of our plan.

11:19:06 We'll also see ease of appointment scheduling.

11:19:09 Our employees' time away from work will be reduced and

11:19:13 we will remove barriers to their getting treatment.

11:19:15 The cost for staff facilities and overhead are

11:19:18 prenegotiated so we know what we are paying for.

11:19:21 So while the health plan is fully insured as we

11:19:24 discussed earlier, the workers' compensation program

11:19:27 within the city is self-insured which means that we pay

11:19:29 every bill for each doctor visit for an on-the-job

11:19:32 injury or illness.

11:19:34 So that beginning with the first visit that an

11:19:38 on-the-job injured employee might make to a wellness

11:19:41 clinic, we will see the cost savings from dollar one.




11:19:45 What are the benefits to our employees?

11:19:49 The sites will be convenient.

11:19:50 They will be able to schedule their appointments either

11:19:52 by phone or online and they will be in and out

11:19:55 typically within the hour.

11:19:56 They will have zero co-payment for their visit, zero

11:19:59 co-payment for any generic prescriptions or maintenance

11:20:02 supplies that they might need.

11:20:04 They will receive continuity of care, so they will get

11:20:07 to know the doctor, and the doctor will get to know

11:20:09 them.

11:20:10 It's estimated that about two-thirds of our employees

11:20:12 today don't have an ongoing relationship with their

11:20:15 doctor.

11:20:15 They go only when something becomes an issue that they

11:20:20 can no longer deal with at home.

11:20:21 And so this gives our employees the opportunity to

11:20:23 build a relationship with our wellness center doctors.

11:20:27 They will be -- there will be support available for

11:20:30 diabetes management and weight loss and tobacco

11:20:33 cessation, and all participation in the program is

11:20:36 voluntary.




11:20:37 Employees can choose to go, choose to remain with their

11:20:41 own doctor, or make the decision based on the issue

11:20:44 they are having at the time.

11:20:49 As far as financials, I wanted to share with you for

11:20:52 our first year of 2011 fiscal year which we are

11:20:54 currently in, of course we are still through Humana at

11:20:58 the end of the year so our premiums are estimated for

11:21:00 the first quarter that we are currently in at almost

11:21:03 $8.3 million.

11:21:05 The united health care visit we received, that includes

11:21:07 our implementation of wellness centers, means that the

11:21:10 three quarters of this fiscal year next calendar year

11:21:15 will cost about $26.3 million in premium.

11:21:21 Wellness clinics will be phased in beginning with

11:21:26 January implementation so we'll have three quarters of

11:21:28 Care ATC responsibility at about $1.6 million.

11:21:32 And then our conservative estimate of on-the-job injury

11:21:37 savings is over half million dollars as you see here.

11:21:39 All that totals together is $35.6 million which leaves

11:21:44 us slightly underbudget for this fiscal year 2011.

11:21:50 As far as the cost of the contract, I wanted to point

11:21:53 out that the first year, of course, is a partial year




11:21:55 of three quarters, and that's $1.6 million as I

11:21:59 mentioned.

11:21:59 The full year with all three clinics operational is

11:22:05 estimated at $2.7 million forts fiscal years 2012 and

11:22:10 2013.

11:22:11 And then the full year cost divided by four quarters

11:22:14 you will see quarter one of fiscal year 2014 at

11:22:19 $670,000 for a total of 7.6 million.

11:22:24 So where do have we go from here?

11:22:26 With your approval today, and the wellness center

11:22:28 services contract, we can move forward to work with

11:22:32 Care ATC to determine locations for our January

11:22:35 implementation.

11:22:35 We can begin to authorize staffing, and hold open

11:22:41 houses for our employees and their families and

11:22:45 retirees and their families to get to meet the doctor

11:22:48 and get to see what the clinic is all about.

11:22:50 And they are really excited about that.

11:22:52 So while we are doing those things we will also be

11:22:54 finalizing the united health care contract which will

11:22:57 come before you in the coming weeks.

11:23:00 And we've that I want to thank you for your interest in




11:23:01 this topic, and respectfully ask for your support of

11:23:04 the contract.

11:23:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Miranda?

11:23:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to compliment you and the

11:23:10 rest of the administration for thinking outside the

11:23:12 box, or almost outside the box.

11:23:14 You got to the rim of the box but you didn't jump out.

11:23:21 Blood tests.

11:23:22 That's most doctors don't do the testing anymore for

11:23:25 whatever reason.

11:23:26 The HIPAA is normal in all medical uses now.

11:23:31 I mean, you can interrupt at any time.

11:23:33 I consider it an honor if you tell me that I am wrong.

11:23:36 X-rays.

11:23:37 Where do they go?

11:23:39 CAT scans, where do they go?

11:23:41 Pet scans, where do they go?

11:23:43 What are costs?

11:23:44 What are pass throughs?

11:23:45 There's things of those nature that I haven't been able

11:23:48 to grasp in reading the documents.

11:23:51 What are the rents? What are the locations? Who are




11:23:53 the doctors?

11:23:54 And I don't want to hear they are board certified.

11:23:56 He or she.

11:23:57 I want to hear -- who are these doctors, and have they

11:24:01 had any complaints filed against them through the

11:24:03 process of which they come from?

11:24:07 I think the public is entitled to know that.

11:24:09 What are the administrative costs?

11:24:11 Does that include bringing the doctors in and moving

11:24:14 them?

11:24:14 What are the rents?

11:24:16 For how long a period of time?

11:24:18 Where are these clinics located?

11:24:20 You see, in my sometimes, I'm not ready to vote on this

11:24:25 because all the things that I just said were not

11:24:29 addressed as to location.

11:24:32 I heard Lutz.

11:24:32 I heard Brandon.

11:24:34 Let me say this.

11:24:34 I don't open my mouth unless I think I know what I'm

11:24:37 saying.

11:24:38 That's what Abraham Lincoln once said but he said it in




11:24:41 a much eloquent way.

11:24:42 If you go to this Web site, and you look at the third

11:24:47 bullet down, they have a clinic right now on Swann and

11:24:51 Henderson.

11:24:53 Guess what that clinic says on Swann and Henderson.

11:24:57 That Brandon individuals can come visit that clinic.

11:25:02 So if we are saying we are going to open a clinic

11:25:06 outside the city limits, why don't we use existing

11:25:09 location that they have now?

11:25:11 Based on the use of other cities, I talked to the

11:25:14 people of Clearwater.

11:25:15 They have approximately 700 of their 1600 employees

11:25:19 enrolled in this program.

11:25:23 Guess what they had to do to get there.

11:25:25 It might seem easy in and out.

11:25:26 We might say they don't have a relationship with their

11:25:29 doctors, but maybe they do, with the present doctor.

11:25:32 I don't know that.

11:25:33 That's up to the individual.

11:25:34 See, I'm not on that plan.

11:25:36 I don't have any insurance with the city other than if

11:25:38 I die, somebody collects something.




11:25:42 So what I am saying is this.

11:25:44 I don't can have all that information.

11:25:49 I am not going to vote for this, if you have one clinic

11:25:53 outside the City of Tampa.

11:25:55 There is vacancies in New Tampa.

11:25:57 A lot of them.

11:25:58 And when you talk about promoting East Tampa, that's

11:26:01 close proximity to Brandon.

11:26:03 And these individuals by their own Web site, the

11:26:06 present of the company is named Ron woods.

11:26:08 I don't know if anybody checked into it.

11:26:10 I can also tell you that if they advertised that in

11:26:13 that clinic, I got to pay rent as a taxpayer to

11:26:18 something in the county where they have the right to

11:26:22 move and choose where they live.

11:26:24 I'm not stopping that.

11:26:26 Go live anywhere you want.

11:26:27 But does the United States of America open up a V.A.

11:26:30 clinic in Canada because there's a lot of retired from

11:26:33 the military there?

11:26:34 Absolutely not.

11:26:36 Do have they of the open up in Ecuador where a lot of




11:26:41 retirees go?

11:26:43 Absolutely not.

11:26:43 You put them in centers like Tampa, hest, where there's

11:26:50 a population, yes.

11:26:57 So what I am saying it was advertised in a nice

11:26:59 newspaper, the Penny Saver.

11:27:04 Why was not advertised in the Tribune or the times?

11:27:10 So those are figures that I heard, the 7.6 or 8.2.

11:27:15 What happened? Does that include the rent?

11:27:17 I don't know.

11:27:18 Does that include the pass throughs?

11:27:19 I don't know.

11:27:23 Does that include the doctors?

11:27:27 I don't know.

11:27:28 So what is it -- Clearwater was not successful in the

11:27:35 beginning.

11:27:37 They had to give $25 gift cards to Publix to give the

11:27:41 employees -- and I don't see nothing wrong with that.

11:27:44 If this is a new concept I applaud Clearwater.

11:27:47 But it has to be more than just what I'm hearing,

11:27:52 because we haven't gone out of the box.

11:27:56 You have the right to go to your own clinic.




11:28:01 But for fear of making a political mistake, I guess we

11:28:04 didn't go there.

11:28:05 We go to a company and say it's their fault, they did

11:28:08 it.

11:28:08 Well, I'm not a blame-you type guy.

11:28:11 If I have to take the heat, I take the heat.

11:28:15 And

11:28:19 I can tell you this.

11:28:25 I don't know this company, not that I should know.

11:28:29 They were judged by six individuals that are great

11:28:32 employees.

11:28:32 I don't know how much they know about health care.

11:28:34 I don't know how much they know about hospitals.

11:28:38 They had a consultant.

11:28:38 That's fine.

11:28:39 Did we try any professionals from this area of some of

11:28:43 the greatest hospitals in this country including Tampa

11:28:46 general, St. Joseph and others, that do this for a

11:28:52 living, not for them to bid but to give advice?

11:28:55 I don't know if we did that or not.

11:28:58 Maybe you did.

11:28:58 But I'm sure not aware of it.




11:29:03 I admit I don't go around saying things, and I

11:29:06 specifically told the three of us that were in that

11:29:08 room with me, I will not vote for this contract unless

11:29:11 those clinics are in the city.

11:29:14 We have a problem here.

11:29:16 We have people that have lost things.

11:29:20 And let me tell you what I think.

11:29:21 When I heard about they want to drive the big trucks up

11:29:24 to the location, that was an information to me that my

11:29:28 senses told me the locations have already been, because

11:29:33 you can't go into a small place with a big truck.

11:29:37 Let me tell you, you are taking a big risk if some city

11:29:42 driver is he or she is having a heart attack -- and I

11:29:46 hope that doesn't happen -- and now wants to drive

11:29:49 themselves to that clinic with that fear?

11:29:52 Instead of stopping and asking, for an emergency use

11:29:55 from the Tampa Fire Rescue to possibly save their

11:29:57 lives?

11:29:58 So away from that incident, a diabetic case which could

11:30:04 be me, driving to that clinic, you have a diabetic coma

11:30:08 and you have an accident and kill a couple of people

11:30:11 just to get to the clinic?




11:30:12 There is a big risk that we have never considered.

11:30:15 And it could happen to anything.

11:30:17 Could happen without any of these things, that you have

11:30:21 an accident in a city vehicle.

11:30:23 Once you start that, you open yourselves to other

11:30:26 things, and other incidents that I don't think we have

11:30:29 covered fully, and any aspect of this contract.

11:30:34 Could that happen?

11:30:42 If it can happen it will happen, maybe not today but

11:30:44 tomorrow.

11:30:45 Notice I was very careful in saying locations but you

11:30:47 never mentioned the locations.

11:30:49 So I assume that locations are already picked out.

11:30:55 Are my assumptions correct?

11:30:56 >>> The locations have not already been picked out,

11:31:00 although Care ATC has been working for some time to

11:31:03 look at locations in the area.

11:31:05 I personally have not seen any locations myself.

11:31:07 I have not done any walk-through because obviously we

11:31:10 have to have a contract first.

11:31:12 The locations are certainly a big concern of ours.

11:31:16 We want to make sure that they are located where our




11:31:19 employees will make the greatest use of the clinics.

11:31:21 Because we are looking at driving costs down, their

11:31:25 ability to use the clinics and to have them

11:31:28 conveniently located is of paramount importance to us.

11:31:31 I certainly understand the desire to have the clinics

11:31:34 within the City of Tampa, and we are reviewing that as

11:31:37 we look at any future location.

11:31:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me say this as my first time.

11:31:43 I haven't stopped for my second time.

11:31:45 But I just want to make that clear in case I get banged

11:31:50 in the head with the gavel.

11:31:52 But it's paramount to me -- I can't speak for the other

11:31:55 six-these individuals that live in the county, there's

11:31:58 nothing wrong where they live in the county.

11:32:00 This same company, don't believe me, go look at the Web

11:32:03 site.

11:32:03 It tells you and the location on Swann, that used to be

11:32:07 the old Miller orthopedic place, I believe.

11:32:11 I saw it last night.

11:32:13 I can tell you that they say a short drive from

11:32:18 Brandon, and they emphasize.

11:32:21 Do you mean to tell me that I am getting free medical,




11:32:24 and I'm not going to drive five mails to go from

11:32:26 Brandon to East Tampa, or from Lutz to New Tampa?

11:32:31 I have got to be nuts.

11:32:32 Who are the 8% that are creating the 80% of the cost?

11:32:36 Have we addressed that?

11:32:37 Have we talked to that?

11:32:39 Have you brought them in?

11:32:40 To me that's paramount.

11:32:41 If I was running a business and I had that, I would

11:32:44 bring them in.

11:32:45 I don't know if we have or not.

11:32:47 Maybe there's a legitimacy to it.

11:32:50 Maybe they have a very, very bad disease and maybe

11:32:52 that's why they are creating 80% of the cost.

11:32:55 That was brought out but it was never thoroughly

11:32:58 explained as to why they bring out 80% of the cost of

11:33:02 only 8% of those creating it.

11:33:04 You know, a treatment for chemo between 15,000 and

11:33:11 21,000, a treatment.

11:33:15 A treatment for a thumbnail, that's a couple of

11:33:18 hundred.

11:33:19 So I don't know what the rationale is, and I'm just




11:33:22 saying that in order for me, one, uno, to make a

11:33:28 decision, I have to know what these pass-throughs are,

11:33:30 I have to know who the president is, the

11:33:32 vice-president, the administrative costs, all of that

11:33:34 was not addressed.

11:33:35 All that is built into the cost.

11:33:37 The rents were built into the cost.

11:33:41 I don't know what they are.

11:33:42 They are outside the city, two of them.

11:33:44 So how would I feel if I do run for reelection -- and

11:33:48 maybe I won't -- and I say, you know, Charlie, you are

11:33:51 an idiot, you voted for something out there, and now

11:33:54 for whatever reason it's not working, and I got to pay

11:33:58 rent for three years?

11:34:00 In today's marketplace when rents are available, you go

11:34:02 talk to them, they will run them for six months because

11:34:09 they are broke.

11:34:09 So we are looking at the sites or the approximate of

11:34:15 the sites, and the costs, if I read that right, it's my

11:34:20 cost.

11:34:20 So I'm looking for the cheapest buildout, not only for

11:34:25 where they live.




11:34:26 That might be the reason we are saying it but we are

11:34:29 looking for the cheapest buildout.

11:34:31 And I can also tell you, it falls where it falls.

11:34:35 When the Centro Espanol was available, I told the

11:34:38 administration, don't give it away, make that your

11:34:40 first clinic.

11:34:41 And parking, they had the building, and the historical

11:34:45 factors, that those immigrants built it hand by hand,

11:34:48 brick by brick, and is it a use for a good cause?

11:34:53 Yes, it is.

11:34:53 But now I got to pay 300,000 as a taxpayer to fix the

11:34:58 roof and rent it for a dollar a year and go out and

11:35:01 rent three places.

11:35:02 Oh, that's a winner.

11:35:04 Right now I reserve my time for later.

11:35:07 [ Laughter ]

11:35:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Three minutes?

11:35:14 >>> Chairman, if I may, I would like to address the

11:35:17 location question.

11:35:18 There was a lot in that comment so I will start, I

11:35:21 guess with, the location question.

11:35:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me raise a question here.




11:35:26 We are getting close to 12:00, and my intent is to try

11:35:32 to deal with the issues before 12 so they don't have to

11:35:37 come back S.this time sensitive?

11:35:39 Is the item time sensitive?

11:35:42 >>> yes, sir, in our estimation it is because of the

11:35:44 cost savings that we see and because he within a year

11:35:48 we do have been a new carrier, and so we really need to

11:35:51 have a decision on this so we can move forward with

11:35:53 united health care.

11:35:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So then if this council votes this down

11:35:57 today, this hypothetical vote it down, where are we

11:36:01 with the contract?

11:36:02 >>> If this were voted down today, obviously we go with

11:36:08 united health care but their costs will be higher.

11:36:10 They have given up the bid without the wellness centers

11:36:14 embedded.

11:36:15 Obviously there will be more people going to doctors in

11:36:17 the health plan.

11:36:18 So the costs that we will have for all our employees

11:36:22 will go up.

11:36:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Speak to the location issues.

11:36:28 That's the main thing, I think, Mr. Miranda is speaking




11:36:31 to.

11:36:31 >>> I would be happy to.

11:36:32 If we could bring up the Elmo.

11:36:35 This map shows the analysis that was done by Care ATC.

11:36:41 We have given them a zip code for every employee's home

11:36:45 address and workplace.

11:36:47 And they were able to do a Geo access map.

11:36:51 You will see the darker the red, the higher the

11:36:52 concentration of city employees.

11:36:54 And so their recommendation to us was to have one

11:36:58 wellness center that would be somewhere on the 275

11:37:02 corridor, and then a high concentration north of town

11:37:07 in the Lutz Land O' Lakes, New Tampa area, and one big

11:37:11 concentration in Brandon near the route 60 to Brandon

11:37:19 regional hospital area.

11:37:20 And certainly you can see by the map that that is where

11:37:24 the concentration of employees are.

11:37:26 That does not mean, however, that an employee who lives

11:37:29 in Brandon can't visit a downtown location.

11:37:32 Or vice versa.

11:37:34 They are there for convenience of employees, and the

11:37:37 107,000 people in our plan.




11:37:38 We certainly do believe that the clinic will get a

11:37:43 great deal of use.

11:37:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?

11:37:48 >>GWEN MILLER: You are saying 275.

11:37:52 It would be easier for East Tampa area, wouldn't it?

11:37:54 >> Depending on the location, we are thinking on 275

11:37:58 would be conveniently accessible for employees and

11:38:03 retirees and their families.

11:38:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Smith?

11:38:07 >> Darrell Smith, chief of staff.

11:38:10 Chairman Scott, I realize the importance of going on to

11:38:13 your agenda and I would recommend considering this to

11:38:17 the afternoon session to give us more time to discuss

11:38:19 it.

11:38:23 I realize the importance of your next item on the

11:38:25 agenda, and if we could continue this to this

11:38:27 afternoon, cot give us more time.

11:38:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I was ready to move forward with it.

11:38:32 But if that's the pleasure of council, yes.

11:38:35 >>MARY MULHERN: If we are going to continue it, I

11:38:38 think we need to continue it for more than of a few

11:38:40 hours, maybe a few weeks.




11:38:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, it's time sensitive.

11:38:44 It's time sensitive.

11:38:46 >>MARY MULHERN: All right.

11:38:47 Well, I would like to point this out at this point.

11:38:55 I did get briefed about this but I can't remember if I

11:38:59 got briefed before or after I got my employee letter

11:39:02 telling me we had a new health care plan, awarded a new

11:39:09 health care contract and that we were doing this new

11:39:12 clinic system.

11:39:13 So it's interesting that we talked about the contract

11:39:15 between 50 and 100,000 but here we have an $8 million

11:39:21 contract that's already basically -- the employees have

11:39:25 been notified about this so it sounds like the city is

11:39:28 has already entered into an agreement.

11:39:30 And my biggest problem with this is that, well, I have

11:39:35 a lot of problems with this.

11:39:36 I think Mr. Miranda covered most of them.

11:39:38 But the fact that you are asking for this three-year

11:39:44 contract before we approved the contract for the health

11:39:50 insurance with united health care.

11:39:55 These are dependent on each other from what you told

11:39:58 us.




11:39:58 And the only savings we are going to get is if we have

11:40:01 this.

11:40:01 So I'm not comfortable with approving this now not

11:40:10 knowing.

11:40:11 There's no guarantee that we are going to get -- I'm

11:40:13 not asking the question at this point but I will be.

11:40:19 That we are going to go through with that, although

11:40:23 apparently we already have.

11:40:24 We have already entered into these.

11:40:27 I think it needs to be -- then the other thing, what I

11:40:32 asked for was a simple like one-page, maybe two,

11:40:36 spreadsheet to show me what were all the bids?

11:40:40 And I didn't get that.

11:40:41 Instead, I got -- well, human resource department or

11:40:48 health insurance company, and I can't go through this.

11:40:52 But Kristina and I both tried, and what I asked for the

11:40:57 bottom line is not in here.

11:41:01 So, you know, I'm not in favor of this at this point.

11:41:06 I think that we are taking a big risk.

11:41:10 And the fact is we are talking about a three-year

11:41:14 contract when we don't even have -- we have, what, six

11:41:17 months left.




11:41:18 And I talked about this earlier, how we are trying to

11:41:21 push through this stuff at the end of term, and I just

11:41:28 don't think -- I don't think it's a good idea.

11:41:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Fletcher, you may want to address

11:41:35 the issue of the contract being signed because I raised

11:41:38 that question and I was told it had not been sign.

11:41:42 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: No contracts have been signed.

11:41:43 We have bids from united health care which have the

11:41:47 clinic included and the clinic not included.

11:41:49 So we have those numbers.

11:41:53 I had a memo addressed to you that had those numbers in

11:41:55 there both with and without the clinic.

11:41:58 So I did not feel that in good faith we could finalize

11:42:01 negotiations with united health care until we had

11:42:04 direction from council as to whether or not we were

11:42:08 going to go forward with the clinic or not.

11:42:10 That's why the clinic is here before you ahead of that

11:42:12 contract.

11:42:13 We have the numbers fixed from the bids, but council

11:42:17 needs to make the decision whether to move forward with

11:42:19 the clinics so we can finalize the negotiation with

11:42:22 united health care and bring you a contract to




11:42:24 consummate that proposal.

11:42:27 So that's the timing we are looking at.

11:42:35 And this contract get delayed because Mace and our

11:42:39 office are woo we are working on it trying to make sure

11:42:41 it wags a solid contract to address all the business

11:42:44 terms, so it did get behind what was released to the

11:42:46 staff; that I will take responsibility for that.

11:42:50 But here's where we are.

11:42:52 We do need direction from council so we can consummate

11:42:55 the bids with united health care and determine which of

11:42:58 their bids we would accept.

11:43:02 We just didn't know which direction we were going to go

11:43:05 by action from counseling either approving or denying

11:43:07 this contract.

11:43:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, we can do one of two things.

11:43:11 I want to make this the last item on the agenda this

11:43:13 afternoon, or move forward with it.

11:43:16 I only have one concern with it.

11:43:18 You met with me and went over it, and that was the

11:43:21 issue of the locations.

11:43:24 I understand in showing the maps and all of that.

11:43:36 But we need to either continue this to the afternoon so




11:43:39 we can get more questions related, but clearly what you

11:43:41 are saying today -- and I know you have to get done

11:43:44 because you are will be assigning dates for a person to

11:43:48 be in class and I know that's being done already.

11:43:50 So what's the pleasure of council?

11:43:55 >>GWEN MILLER: I think we should vote on it.

11:43:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If I may speak.

11:43:59 This should have been done before all the public input

11:44:02 to the employees were done so that everybody knew what

11:44:04 was happening before, not after.

11:44:07 I'm not here to say anything other than that.

11:44:09 But I had talked to the previous county administrator,

11:44:14 and you got the county, you got the state attorney, and

11:44:20 you got the public defender's office.

11:44:24 Would have had much more power to barring anyone than

11:44:27 just the City of Tampa.

11:44:29 Did not mention the sheriff's office because they are

11:44:31 not in these governing agencies that we discussed.

11:44:33 So I don't know why we didn't go again and speak to the

11:44:39 other governments for one of the largest HMOs --

11:44:44 that's what it would be -- in the area.

11:44:46 I'm not saying that's right or wrong.




11:44:47 I see people anxious to come and speak and whatever.

11:44:50 But let me say this.

11:44:51 I will not vote for this.

11:44:53 I have said it before, I am going to say it again.

11:44:56 If any one of these clinics is outside the city limits.

11:44:59 Government can't service and do everything for

11:45:02 everybody.

11:45:04 When we are suffering inside the city limits, when

11:45:06 there's more available places for rent than anywhere

11:45:09 else, when we have an unemployment rate of

11:45:11 12-point-some percent, and 5% -- I can't justify that

11:45:19 cost of renting something outside where there's no tax

11:45:25 base return coming back to the city.

11:45:27 Perfectly, inside the city limits you have a lot more

11:45:30 advantage.

11:45:30 And I can't service everybody.

11:45:32 If 100 people moved to Ocala I am not going to open up

11:45:35 a clinic in Ocala.

11:45:36 So what I am saying is let's understand where we are

11:45:39 at.

11:45:40 Philosophically, I think I'm right.

11:45:43 I can't service everybody wherever they live.




11:45:46 They can come in.

11:45:47 They see football games here.

11:45:49 They see shows.

11:45:50 They see things at the lightning.

11:45:52 They go everywhere.

11:45:53 So to tell me they are not going to go somewhere for

11:45:56 free?

11:45:56 I doubt that very much.

11:45:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I guess my question today is, again,

11:46:01 do we want to continue this to this afternoon?

11:46:03 Mr. Fletcher, I want to raise one question from a legal

11:46:06 standpoint.

11:46:07 Can council pass a motion to prove contingent on a

11:46:10 location that it comes within the boundaries of the

11:46:14 City of Tampa?

11:46:15 Is that possible?

11:46:16 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I don't believe so, Mr. Chairman.

11:46:21 The way the contract is set up, it's actually silent on

11:46:25 where they would be located, the methodology as has

11:46:31 been described to you.

11:46:32 I don't believe we -- we would actually have to go back

11:46:37 and get a commitment from the administration.




11:46:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What I will do then is continue this

11:46:41 item to this afternoon, as the last item of the day.

11:46:44 Can I get a motion to that effect?

11:46:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.

11:46:46 >> Second.

11:46:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?

11:46:48 Opposes?

11:46:49 Thank you very kindly.

11:46:51 We will come back this afternoon on that item.

11:46:53 Continue it to a dialogue with that.

11:46:58 Item 72.

11:47:00 The persons who applied for the WMBE, are they here,

11:47:07 who applied to serve on the advisory council?

11:47:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.

11:47:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have two people?

11:47:15 Come on real quickly, give you a minute each to

11:47:18 introduce yourselves so we can get through with the

11:47:21 business.

11:47:21 Okay?

11:47:21 >> Good afternoon.

11:47:25 City Council.

11:47:26 My name is Sylvia Brentsmith and I am trying to be a




11:47:31 candidate for chairman -- I'm sorry, inform advisory

11:47:37 board.

11:47:39 Sorry.

11:47:43 For the -- what is it, ethnic?

11:47:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Ethnic, yes.

11:47:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: WMBE, I think it is.

11:47:53 Go ahead.

11:47:54 Is that it?

11:47:55 >> I am a Hillsborough County school diet counselor,

11:48:01 and I have a large amount of experience working with

11:48:03 the public as well as working with other advisory

11:48:07 boards.

11:48:08 And I think it's important to have a lot of experience

11:48:13 in what you say as far as for the community as well as

11:48:19 the population, explore other races of people.

11:48:27 >> thank you.

11:48:31 Are you still teaching in the public school system?

11:48:34 >> I'm guidance counselor, progress village.

11:48:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Progress village.

11:48:38 Thank you.

11:48:40 Next speaker.

11:48:40 >> Good afternoon, Chairman Scott, members of the City




11:48:47 Council.

11:48:47 My name is Jerry Mason. I'm here for the appointment

11:48:55 for the equal business opportunity advisory committee.

11:48:58 Currently involved with the Chamber of Commerce, with

11:49:00 the City of Tampa chamber and of the chair of the

11:49:04 minority business consortium.

11:49:06 I'm here hopefully to be selected for that committee to

11:49:09 provide support, advice, whatever we need to do to open

11:49:14 up the doors for small business, and to be able to

11:49:18 provide those type of opportunities which are some of

11:49:21 the things we have been able to achieve this year with

11:49:23 the chamber.

11:49:24 So I'm very excited about the opportunity.

11:49:29 Juan Davis, a member here in East Tampa and small

11:49:32 business owner, contacted me, and been involved here

11:49:35 with the city, grew up here with the city, Robles Park

11:49:39 projects, have been in banking for 21 years, so we have

11:49:43 been able to achieve a lot of things by being able to

11:49:45 provide the type of voice or support, once again very

11:49:49 excited to be here to talk about that and be able to

11:49:53 provide that type of advice if needed.

11:49:56 Thank you all for your time.




11:49:57 >> Thank you, sir.

11:49:58 Next speaker.

11:50:02 >> Good afternoon.

11:50:03 My name is Kim thresher.

11:50:05 I work for thresher PA as an attorney here in the City

11:50:08 of Tampa.

11:50:09 I would like to be appointed to the equal business

11:50:11 opportunity advisory council.

11:50:13 I am currently on the Nuisance Abatement Board for the

11:50:17 county, and also involved in several chamber

11:50:19 committees, and then several committees at my son's

11:50:23 elementary school in South Tampa.

11:50:27 As a woman, and as an employee of a small business in

11:50:32 Tampa, I certainly am aware of the issues of small

11:50:34 businesses and minorities in the Tampa area, and I

11:50:37 think I have the experience, the expertise and the

11:50:41 knowledge to be a beneficial part of this council.

11:50:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.

11:50:47 The clerk is going to give us direction.

11:50:53 We have two commissioners --

11:50:56 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Two positions, madam clerk?

11:50:58 >> Two positions and one qualify.




11:51:02 And the winner is?

11:51:18 While she's counting that let's move to the next item.

11:51:20 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, I'm sorry.

11:51:26 Just to bring back number 65, that passed while Mr.

11:51:31 Fletcher was out of the room.

11:51:33 Did you want to move that to the afternoon, number 65?

11:51:37 >> Yes, we'll take that up this afternoon.

11:51:39 That's fine.

11:51:39 65 we'll just take up this afternoon.

11:51:42 We have a motion.

11:51:44 Moved and seconded.

11:51:45 All in favor?

11:51:46 Okay.

11:51:47 Item 73 is a vacating.

11:51:52 Is that right?

11:51:53 Can we do that real quick?

11:51:55 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Item 73 and 74 require witnesses to

11:52:08 be sworn.

11:52:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: If you have not been sworn, pleas

11:52:11 stand at this time.

11:52:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 73 or 74.

11:52:14 If you are going to speak.




11:52:15 (Oath administered by Clerk)

11:52:26 >>BARBARA LYNCH: Land Development Coordination.

11:52:30 C-10-12 is a vacating an alley in East Tampa and I have

11:52:34 a map for the Elmo.

11:52:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here in opposition to this

11:52:38 vacating? Anyone in opposition to this vacating in

11:52:41 East Tampa?

11:52:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.

11:52:43 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Second.

11:52:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?

11:52:45 Opposes?

11:52:46 Okay.

11:52:49 Councilwoman Miller?

11:52:51 >>GWEN MILLER: An ordinance for first reading, an

11:52:53 ordinance vacating, closing, discontinuing, abandoning

11:52:55 certain rights-of-way, alleyway lying south of 18th

11:52:58 Avenue north interstate highway 4 east of cord street

11:53:02 and west of 46th street in Oak Park subdivision, a

11:53:05 subdivision in the City of Tampa, Hillsborough County

11:53:08 Florida the same being more fully described in section

11:53:10 2 hereof subject to certain easements, covenants,

11:53:13 conditions and restrictions as more particularly




11:53:15 described herein providing an effective date.

11:53:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded by

11:53:18 councilman Miranda.

11:53:19 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

11:53:21 Opposes?

11:53:22 >>THE CLERK: Second reading and adoption will be held

11:53:25 on November 4, 2010 at 9:30 a.m.

11:53:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 74.

11:53:30 Let me just say, I will say this now, about 10 till,

11:53:33 Councilwoman Capin has to leave at 12.

11:53:36 Is that right?

11:53:36 Has to leave at 12.

11:53:38 We also need to cure a procedural issue, council.

11:53:42 Let's deal with that first.

11:53:43 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Also, Mr. Chairman, just to remind

11:53:46 council, I will not be here for the afternoon.

11:53:50 Mr. Tore right oh will be covering for me.

11:53:54 If we can put this in a posture for this afternoon.

11:53:58 And Mr. Weaver is present.

11:53:59 I have had an opportunity to discuss with him what the

11:54:01 issues are.

11:54:01 Council, this is brought to you on a motion for




11:54:05 reconsideration

11:54:15 As you know under Robert's Rules of Order, which, by

11:54:17 the way, shall govern the proceedings of City Council

11:54:19 in all cases provided -- not provided by your own

11:54:21 rules, a motion to reconsider brings back the original

11:54:25 motion that was on the table for consideration

11:54:32 originally and that was a motion to deny.

11:54:34 Now this being a quasi-judicial hearing I am concerned

11:54:38 about a burden shifting issue.

11:54:40 I don't want council to be in a position with a motion

11:54:43 to deny and the petitioner having to go into this

11:54:45 hearing with that motion on the floor.

11:54:48 That being the case, Robert's Rules of Order

11:54:50 specifically does not allow a motion to rescind when

11:54:55 something is brought back on a motion to reconsider.

11:54:57 My request of City Council, therefore, is to make a

11:55:00 motion to waive the rules and then once doing so, then

11:55:05 rescind the motion that is on the table so that you

11:55:08 will begin the public hearing with no motion, you will

11:55:12 hear it in its entirety and then make whatever

11:55:15 appropriate motion that council feels necessary.

11:55:17 So the two actions I request a motion to waive the




11:55:20 rules to allow a motion to rescind, and I would ask Mr.

11:55:24 Weaver, do you have any objection to this?

11:55:27 >> Ron Weaver, 401 East Jackson Street, no objection.

11:55:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: With no motion on the table.

11:55:35 In order to do so you have to waive the rules because

11:55:37 Robert's Rules of Order will not allow specifically

11:55:39 what I am asking you to do.

11:55:40 >>GWEN MILLER: I waive the rules to rescind the first

11:55:43 motion.

11:55:44 >> Second.

11:55:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It would be two separate motions, a

11:55:48 motion to waive your rules.

11:55:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion to waive the rules.

11:55:52 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm sorry to say that I didn't

11:55:54 understand that.

11:55:55 Why can we not just reconsider the denial?

11:56:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Because of legal issues that have

11:56:06 required this council, very unusual circumstances, to

11:56:11 have to hear this as a sec reading all over again.

11:56:16 It would be inappropriate because it's a quasi-judicial

11:56:19 hearing, and there are certain burdens that have to be

11:56:22 met to require the petitioner to be in a position at




11:56:26 the end of the hearing for the attorney to say to

11:56:28 council, if you are in favor of denying this hearing

11:56:33 vote yes, and that is a very difficult position to be

11:56:36 in.

11:56:37 In-- it better to have it if you are going to be

11:56:40 hearing as a new public hearing to have no motion on

11:56:42 the table and have it heard clean.

11:56:44 And whatever motion gets made is the motion that will

11:56:47 be presented to council.

11:56:48 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't understand, you are saying

11:56:55 denying the hearing.

11:56:56 Aren't we reconsidering our vote on the petition?

11:57:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: No, you are doing more than that.

11:57:03 You are doing that because of legal issues that require

11:57:05 you to hear this as a second reading and adoption

11:57:08 public hearing all over again.

11:57:09 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay, okay, I get it.

11:57:11 Thanks.

11:57:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion.

11:57:13 Is there a second?

11:57:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.

11:57:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And the motion is to waive the rules.




11:57:17 Moved and seconded.

11:57:19 All in favor?

11:57:20 Opposes?

11:57:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And now a motion then to rescind the

11:57:23 motion that is on the table.

11:57:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.

11:57:27 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: So moved.

11:57:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

11:57:29 Moved by councilman Miranda, seconded by councilman

11:57:32 Caetano.

11:57:34 The motion on the table to deny.

11:57:35 Okay.

11:57:36 Moved and second.

11:57:36 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

11:57:38 Opposes?

11:57:39 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you, City Council.

11:57:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So we start the process all over

11:57:45 again.

11:57:46 Okay.

11:57:47 The problem we have now is councilman Capin has to

11:57:49 leave at 12:00.

11:57:50 Is that right?




11:57:51 The question to the petitioner, to pick this up at

11:57:58 1:30?

11:57:59 Because she has to leave.

11:58:00 And an appointment and be back at 1:30.

11:58:08 >> Ron Weaver, 401 East Jackson Street.

11:58:11 So we will have all seven present at 1:30, and we only

11:58:14 have six in about five minutes?

11:58:16 Is that what is being asked?

11:58:18 Let me ask my client.

11:58:29 1:30.

11:58:29 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

11:58:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 1:30.

11:58:31 Now, in deference to those who may be in opposition,

11:58:36 and you cannot come back, do you want to speak now to

11:58:40 council?

11:58:44 Anyone from the public who may be in opposition who

11:58:46 cannot come back?

11:58:47 You may want to speak to council now relative to this

11:58:50 petition.

11:58:51 Okay.

11:58:52 I'm assuming everybody can come back.

11:58:54 Is that right?




11:58:56 >> May I ask the same of my people?

11:58:58 Anyone who wants to speak now instead of 1:30?

11:59:03 One person, yes, sir.

11:59:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Sir, sir, you may come.

11:59:12 And I'm only doing this because I recognize that we

11:59:15 have been hear all morning, and you have been here,

11:59:17 some of you may not be able to come back so I want to

11:59:20 be fair to everybody.

11:59:21 >>> I am Chris Gannon, 1707 Watrous, and I am in favor

11:59:28 of Mangroves continuing.

11:59:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

11:59:34 Thank you, sir.

11:59:34 >> Jerry loud.

11:59:37 Thank you for the time.

11:59:38 This afternoon I won't be able to come back.

11:59:40 I'm a business partner and resident of the Mangroves.

11:59:44 I want to speak highly on behalf of what they brought

11:59:47 to our neighborhood and our community, that a lot of me

11:59:53 following this process is felt reactionary to a couple

11:59:55 of establishments that do bring problems into our

11:59:59 neighborhood, you know, with allowing the late-night

12:00:06 drinking and pay one fee and drink as much as you like,




12:00:10 the parking issues and all of that.

12:00:12 Mangroves has Nevada been a part of not wanting to

12:00:14 address those issues, even directly.

12:00:17 They have been involved with our neighborhood

12:00:18 association meetings.

12:00:20 They have come to us with solutions.

12:00:23 Two years ago when I had to approach them about an

12:00:25 issue related to the business that I'm a partner of,

12:00:29 they immediately responded with setting up improved

12:00:33 valet service, limiting the noise, and having security

12:00:37 on hand.

12:00:39 There's there are huge benefits to the small businesses

12:00:43 as well as the residents that want to have an

12:00:44 establishment to go and enjoy fine dining as well as

12:00:47 have business meetings after work for happy hour, or

12:00:51 just to socialize in a mature and well-run area.

12:00:56 So I would ask that you strongly consider the fact that

12:01:00 we need to address the problems in the neighborhood,

12:01:02 and Mangroves has never been one of those

12:01:05 establishments, that the neighborhood are concerned

12:01:09 about.

12:01:11 Thank you.




12:01:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

12:01:13 Thank you very much.

12:01:23 Oh, yes, I'm sorry.

12:01:24 >>THE CLERK: Shirley Foxx-Knowles, city clerk.

12:01:29 The individual selected for the equal business

12:01:32 opportunity advisory council for at-large is Mr. Jerry

12:01:39 mason, and for ethnic minority is Ms. Sylvia Belcher

12:01:47 Brinson.

12:01:48 >> We will pick up at 1:30.

12:01:49 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, I'm sorry.

12:01:51 If you could make a motion then to ratify that decision

12:01:54 and direct me for the November 4th meeting to bring

12:01:57 back a resolution.

12:01:58 >> So moved.

12:02:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Capin.

12:02:04 All in favor?

12:02:04 Opposes?

12:02:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Also a formal motion to continue the

12:02:08 hearing on number 74 to 1:30 in the afternoon.

12:02:10 >>GWEN MILLER: So moved.

12:02:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

12:02:13 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a question on this, I guess




12:02:16 it's for the clerk, and for legal.

12:02:18 When we come back with number 74 we are hearing it on

12:02:28 second reading, like déjà vu.

12:02:51 Oh, I'm sorry.

12:02:52 Thank you.

12:02:53 Sorry about that.

12:02:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.

12:03:00 Opposes?

12:03:00 Okay.

12:03:01 1:30 we will pick up with item 74.

12:03:04 We stand in recess till 1:30.

12:03:06 Thank you very much.

12:03:06 (Recess)

12:37:52

13:06:01

13:30:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come to

13:33:34 order.

13:33:34 We'll have roll call.

13:33:35 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.

13:33:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.

13:33:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.

13:33:41 >>CURTIS STOKES: Here.




13:33:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.

13:33:44 We have three items of that we need to continue,

13:33:47 council.

13:33:47 So what I would like to do is just get those out of the

13:33:50 way.

13:33:51 Item 76 there is a request for continuance.

13:33:55 Is the applicant here?

13:33:56 >>THE CLERK: You will need to open your public

13:33:58 hearing.

13:34:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to open the public hearing 75

13:34:02 through 84.

13:34:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Second.

13:34:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?

13:34:06 Opposes?

13:34:07 Item 76 to continue?

13:34:11 >> We are respectfully requesting that be continued to

13:34:14 November 4th.

13:34:15 >>GWEN MILLER: So moved.

13:34:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public wish to address

13:34:19 council on this continuance?

13:34:20 It been moved and sec.

13:34:22 All in favor?




13:34:25 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Thank you.

13:34:27 >>THE CLERK: That would be at 1:30?

13:34:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, 1:30. Item 79.

13:34:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to have -- move to remove 79

13:34:43 from the agenda.

13:34:43 >> Second.

13:34:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?

13:34:46 Then 84 is a request for continuance because the record

13:34:51 was not completed.

13:34:52 Is that right?

13:35:00 We have to continue it anyway because not a complete

13:35:03 record.

13:35:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion to continue.

13:35:05 >>THE CLERK: We are recommending December 2nd.

13:35:10 1:30.

13:35:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's say 10:30.

13:35:17 10:30 moved and second.

13:35:19 Moved by councilman Mulhern, seconded by councilman

13:35:23 Miranda.

13:35:23 All in favor?

13:35:25 Opposes?

13:35:26 Okay.




13:35:30 I believe that's most of the items we need to deal

13:35:32 we've in terms of continuance, is that right?

13:35:36 We are going to come back and deal we've that at the

13:35:38 end of the day.

13:35:38 Let's deal we've this item here that's before us.

13:35:42 Item 74.

13:35:45 Have the petitioner come forward at this time.

13:35:48 Does staff want to bring us up to date?

13:35:50 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land Development Coordination.

13:36:02 Staff doesn't typically give full presentation on the

13:36:06 second reading.

13:36:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No, you don't have to.

13:36:09 I wanted to know if you wanted to add anything.

13:36:11 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Per the first reading there were

13:36:14 conditions placed on the site plans and those site

13:36:16 plans an those conditions have been certified by the

13:36:18 zoning administrator.

13:36:19 I do have those plans, if you would like to review

13:36:22 them.

13:36:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.

13:36:24 Petitioner?

13:36:30 Ron Weaver, 401 East Jackson Street, attorney for the




13:36:34 Mangroves.

13:36:35 We are grateful to you for your patience and your time

13:36:37 and your letting us come back at 1:30.

13:36:41 This application is for one little thing, and it is for

13:36:45 this.

13:36:46 First of all, we are not changing from a 4(COP-R) to a

13:36:51 4(COP-X) to have any effect on any of the six parts of

13:36:57 your code and how you handle alcoholic beverage, number

13:36:59 one.

13:37:00 We are not changing the distance in specified uses.

13:37:02 That's remaining the same and the 4(COP-X) as the

13:37:06 4(COP-R).

13:37:07 The type of alcohol beer, wine and liquor is not

13:37:10 changing, from 4(COP-R) to 4(COP-X).

13:37:13 We are not changing the hours of operation by one

13:37:15 minute.

13:37:16 We are not intensifying, not increasing any additional

13:37:19 effect.

13:37:19 Number four, area of consumption is remaining the same.

13:37:22 Number five, package sales, there's none under the

13:37:26 4(COP-R) and there will be none under the 4(COP-X).

13:37:29 Size of the wet zoned areas, no change.




13:37:31 Therefore it is only the 51% food reporting requirement

13:37:35 which you heard from numerous experts in the subject of

13:37:39 this economy and the subject of the nature of the

13:37:41 business in this recession.

13:37:43 The request has been determined to not be an

13:37:46 intensification of the special use.

13:37:47 The conditions voluntarily offered by the applicant are

13:37:49 not to mitigate impact but to ensure the public that

13:37:53 they are committed to continue to operate in a

13:37:55 responsible manner as mangroves bar and grill has for

13:37:59 over 14 years.

13:38:00 We are not creating a precedent.

13:38:02 The application is heard on its own merits.

13:38:05 Since it is not an intensification under rule 27-269,

13:38:08 the standings have been determined to be met and based

13:38:11 on the existing approval.

13:38:12 The three conditions as indicated on page 13 of the

13:38:16 August 26th transcript are enforceable, number one,

13:38:20 the business shall offer full course meals consisting

13:38:23 of salads, vegetables and entrees during all hours that

13:38:28 alcoholic beverages are served.

13:38:29 Number two, of the enforceable conditions according to




13:38:32 the August transcript, security licensed by the State

13:38:36 of Florida, not just any security but any security

13:38:38 licensed by the State of Florida shall be provided to

13:38:40 commencing at 10 p.m. until one hour after closing on

13:38:43 those dates the business is open after mid nature.

13:38:45 Assurances in all cases, I repeat, security license by

13:38:49 the State of Florida shall be provided, and this is one

13:38:52 of the enforceable conditions,en commencing at 10 p.m.

13:38:56 until one hour after closing on all days the business

13:38:58 is open after midnight.

13:39:00 Number three, no live bands shall be permitted in the

13:39:03 Pa owe and patio doors are shall not be left open when

13:39:06 a band is on and these are enforceable provisions.

13:39:11 Over 14 years the million visitors as the responsible,

13:39:14 one, in the neighborhood that has been an influence and

13:39:16 example to all others in the neighborhood has for 14

13:39:19 years had not one underage violation.

13:39:24 I quote the police department.

13:39:25 The district comments, the district has no objection to

13:39:27 this request, and in fact, if I may, am I putting words

13:39:32 in your mouth, officer Miller?

13:39:34 >> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police department.




13:39:39 I have been sworn.

13:39:42 My report stands.

13:39:43 I would like to make some clarifications.

13:39:45 At no time was there any underage or arrest 9/11

13:39:49 Mangroves, not by myself or any other undercover

13:39:53 officer in the last three years.

13:39:57 I would like to clarify that for the record, in all

13:40:01 fairness, and that's it.

13:40:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.

13:40:06 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: May I ask officer Miller?

13:40:12 Can you tell me about the felony that occurred on that

13:40:15 report that had some 96 calls?

13:40:19 >> Some of the felonies?

13:40:21 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: There was one felony there.

13:40:24 >> We had an aggravated assault there.

13:40:31 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I think I discussed it with you.

13:40:33 There where somebody threw something from the

13:40:38 apartments over to Mangroves?

13:40:41 >> Right.

13:40:42 That's the only one I know of.

13:40:43 >> That's the only one that was on the report, right.

13:40:45 >> Correct.




13:40:47 Thank you.

13:40:55 >> The impacts are alcoholic beverage sales but this

13:40:59 has been found consistent, an not adverse to the public

13:41:04 health and safety of the City of Tampa or any of these

13:41:06 interests.

13:41:07 Based upon a comparison of the existing approval versus

13:41:09 the request, it is clear there are no additional

13:41:11 adverse impacts or changes related to the request.

13:41:14 The subject request is not does not set a precedent

13:41:16 since each petition is on its own merits.

13:41:21 Number four, regarding enforceability of conditions and

13:41:24 concerns raised in prior hearings the conditions and

13:41:26 special use are enforceable confirmed by your city

13:41:29 attorney's office on page 13 of the August 26th

13:41:31 transcript.

13:41:32 Violation of the conditions can result in revocation of

13:41:34 the special use according to that very tough language,

13:41:39 about the toughest he have seen that you put in during

13:41:42 our last hearing.

13:41:43 Finally police reports confirm there is no underage

13:41:46 violation and not one underage drinking violation, with

13:41:50 the highest letter of consent in 14 years of excellent




13:41:53 operation by the Mangroves with this commendation.

13:41:55 We have about a 60 local owners and 120 residents

13:41:59 within five blocks that put the red dots brought before

13:42:03 you, and made part of the record with Ms. Knolls at the

13:42:06 last meeting, it is 120 people who live within five

13:42:12 blocks who indicated support for this request.

13:42:14 Please keep the 14-year tradition of Mangroves, one of

13:42:17 the good behaviors, still in business in then

13:42:20 recession.

13:42:21 Grant one little thing, not the six things I read at

13:42:24 the beginning which we are not seeking to change, they

13:42:26 stay just like they are.

13:42:28 Please let us stay in business.

13:42:31 One last thing.

13:42:32 And that is this.

13:42:33 Regardless of what the last five summary points are,

13:42:35 they didn't have five points.

13:42:37 They had four words.

13:42:38 This is our life.

13:42:39 And it is.

13:42:40 Thank you.

13:42:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me say this.




13:42:44 If there is no change to all these things, what are we

13:42:46 doing here?

13:42:47 >> The 51% reporting requirements, sir.

13:42:50 >> Uh-huh.

13:42:52 That's the little one you are talking about, one little

13:42:54 change?

13:42:54 >> I apologize, it's not little, it's big the 51% food

13:42:59 but we offered to do 25% anyway.

13:43:02 >> Let me ask another question.

13:43:03 >> Certainly, sir.

13:43:04 >> If you were to be given what you are asking for, do

13:43:07 you have to sell any food at all?

13:43:11 >> When it's open --

13:43:12 >> I'm speaking, sir, please.

13:43:15 I stayed very quiet when you were speaking.

13:43:17 You were addressing the Mike.

13:43:18 I apologize if I interrupt you at any one time.

13:43:22 Do you have to sell any food at all?

13:43:25 Yes or no?

13:43:26 Don't tell me that you have a paper to submit because I

13:43:30 can't enforce that.

13:43:31 Tell me yes or no.




13:43:32 Do you have to sell one morsel of rice?

13:43:39 >> No one will buy, the kitchen must be open.

13:43:43 >> I didn't ask you that.

13:43:45 You sound like you're running for office.

13:43:46 >> I'm not.

13:43:53 >> We ain't going to be in business.

13:44:11 We have to stay open -- that's pretty detailed.

13:44:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions by council?

13:44:21 All right.

13:44:22 This is a public hearing.

13:44:23 Anyone from the public wish to address council?

13:44:25 Anyone from the public?

13:44:27 All the pros to my left, if you are for this stand to

13:44:30 my left.

13:44:31 Those who are against, opposed to my right. To my

13:44:34 right if you are against this.

13:44:35 To my right, which is your left.

13:44:51 Those in opposition to my right and your left.

13:45:15 Mr. Weaver, may I suggest something to you, sir?

13:45:18 >> Consolidate and only a few speakers?

13:45:20 Consolidate and not repeat everything said and maybe

13:45:23 one or two minutes instead of three, and we would




13:45:25 appreciate if you give one or two minutes back, if you

13:45:29 can.

13:45:29 If you can't, it's a public hearing.

13:45:31 Thank you, sir.

13:45:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.

13:45:33 It is a public hearing.

13:45:36 But I'm just saying if you don't have to use the full

13:45:39 three minutes we appreciate that in consolidating some

13:45:44 of the testimony.

13:45:44 We don't need to hear the same testimony about 30

13:45:47 times, you know.

13:45:48 Okay.

13:45:52 Alternate.

13:45:53 >> David boarding, 308 south west.

13:45:57 The first time we came I brought 28 petitions including

13:46:00 myself, 29, that are residents of Oscawana, not the

13:46:04 members of Oscawana but residents that fully support

13:46:08 Mangroves 4(COP-X).

13:46:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

13:46:14 Next speaker to my right.

13:46:39 >> My name is Mike eustic, 305 south Melville Avenue.

13:46:46 Everyone here is in favor of Mangroves remaining a




13:46:50 vital part of the SoHo district.

13:46:51 The difference, though, is in which method this will be

13:46:55 accomplished.

13:46:55 It is clear that the bars in the area are having a

13:46:57 negative impact on legitimate restaurants.

13:47:01 We are in a situation because of all the variances,

13:47:04 waivers and rezoning requests that City Council has

13:47:06 previously approved, and here we stand with yet another

13:47:09 one before us.

13:47:11 When will the cycle end?

13:47:13 Mangroves is claiming that the only way that they can

13:47:15 stay in business is to change their zoning.

13:47:17 This makes absolutely no sense to me.

13:47:19 In other words, the only way you can continue competing

13:47:21 with the bars is to become one?

13:47:24 Although their intentions may be honorable there is

13:47:26 absolutely no guarantee that once they receive a

13:47:28 4(COP-X) that they will remain in business.

13:47:31 It does however guarantee that a bar or club will

13:47:34 undoubtedly open if this property is sold or leased.

13:47:37 Keep in mind you are zoning the property, not the

13:47:40 business.




13:47:40 It's obvious Mangroves has a loyal customer base and

13:47:45 effective marketing skills.

13:47:46 I suggest they tap into these resources.

13:47:49 A 4(COP-X) is not the answer.

13:47:51 The handouts you received show the classification for

13:47:53 the establishments in SoHo.

13:47:55 Again this is the only one with a 4(COP-X).

13:48:00 Also the underlying reason this neighborhood has become

13:48:03 what it is.

13:48:04 Adding another 4(COP-X) would be suicide for this

13:48:07 neighborhood.

13:48:08 Here is the police activity for a two-year period,

13:48:13 several restaurants in the two blocks near Mangroves.

13:48:16 43 calls to MacDinton's.

13:48:20 Three to TC Choy.

13:48:25 Four to SoHo and to Mangroves.

13:48:32 There are 17 shy at MacDinton's.

13:48:39 Several calls, noise violation does not appear on this

13:48:41 list nor does the one where they received a violation.

13:48:46 The I'm not trying to trash Mangroves.

13:48:50 I truly want them to stay in SoHo.

13:48:52 My point is we have already had issues with this




13:48:54 establishment in the past.

13:48:56 Seems as though that the more alcohol sells are

13:48:58 involved the greater the potential for problems.

13:49:01 Eliminating the exist 51-49% will only increase alcohol

13:49:05 related problems and change the dynamics of what

13:49:08 constitutes a legitimate restaurant and what's a bar.

13:49:10 Chairman Scott made a good point regarding legitimate

13:49:13 restaurants.

13:49:14 Granting this request by its very nature changes the

13:49:16 definition of what a restaurant is.

13:49:20 There is a process underway of coming up with

13:49:22 guidelines of regulating the bars and restaurants in

13:49:24 SoHo.

13:49:25 Until this process is completed and implemented, I

13:49:27 believe a moratorium on future rezoning is in order.

13:49:31 The residents in this area have been very vocal about

13:49:33 not wanting any more bars.

13:49:35 The 4(COP-X) zoning is another bar.

13:49:39 Please reaffirm your earlier decision and deny this

13:49:41 request.

13:49:42 Thank you.

13:49:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker to my left.




13:49:49 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Excuse me, when you brought that up,

13:49:51 because that's something I requested at another

13:49:55 meeting.

13:49:56 The information you brought up here.

13:49:58 And I need to clarify something.

13:50:00 When you look at the police reports, I was told by

13:50:08 Cathy Coyle that, for instance, I just saw one that

13:50:14 said hit and run, twice.

13:50:17 What happens is when the police come -- and then Mr.

13:50:20 Miller might be able to come up here and say -- the way

13:50:23 I understand it is when they come for an incident and

13:50:26 the accident is in front, on the street, of the closest

13:50:31 establishment gets the report.

13:50:34 So it's not necessarily that they are all being called,

13:50:38 that all of these pertain to each establishment.

13:50:42 I was told -- I'm not sure, but it's the closest

13:50:47 southwest to the closest establishment southwest of

13:50:53 where the accident happened.

13:50:55 So when these calls are here, just to clarify it,

13:50:59 because I was looking at it, and I said there's hit and

13:51:02 run accidents in these establishments?

13:51:05 And that's how it was explained to me.




13:51:07 So I just want to make that clear, when you see those

13:51:10 on all of them, not just, you know, not just the

13:51:14 applicant that's before us.

13:51:15 But there are several restaurants in here that you

13:51:18 mentioned.

13:51:19 You also said no more bars.

13:51:25 I hate to differ with you, but they may act like bars,

13:51:30 but they are not bars, not by their classification.

13:51:36 That's just another clarification.

13:51:39 Thank you.

13:51:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.

13:51:43 >> Good afternoon.

13:51:46 My name is Dean Newsome, a home owner in Tampa, a human

13:51:52 resources consultant independently, and I have a Ph.D.

13:51:58 I don't have a long list of facts to give you.

13:52:01 I can only really speak from my heart.

13:52:04 Seven and a half years ago I joined an organization

13:52:06 called merge Tampa and at that time the city was

13:52:11 struggling with losing a lot of young professionals and

13:52:14 they wanted to know what can we do as a city to make

13:52:17 things better.

13:52:18 One of the things that was clearly identified was the




13:52:20 downtown area was not vibrant so over a period of seven

13:52:24 to eight years the City of Tampa put a lot of resources

13:52:26 into building up the downtown and of course that

13:52:30 includes bars and restaurants and places to live.

13:52:32 When I first moved to Tampa in 1997 most of my friends

13:52:37 would not go to the Hyde Park area.

13:52:39 One of the things that the residents failed to realize

13:52:42 is you have to take the good with the bad.

13:52:44 Places like Mangroves make South Tampa an ideal place

13:52:47 to live.

13:52:48 And when you have such high demand for a place you can

13:52:51 rent a one bedroom for about $1,000.

13:52:54 It's because of places like Mangroves.

13:52:56 People know if you can walk to places, walk to

13:53:00 restaurants, walk to bars.

13:53:01 If you look at most major cities across the United

13:53:03 States that are doing well, New York City,

13:53:06 San Francisco, you have establishments such as

13:53:08 Mangroves that support the local economy.

13:53:10 I recently saw a commercial on TV that said for every

13:53:16 85 visitors that come to Florida, to Tampa, creates one

13:53:19 new job.




13:53:20 Places like Mangroves encourage people to come visit.

13:53:23 They know there's going to be something here for them

13:53:25 to do.

13:53:27 And friends talk rightly about the South Tampa area.

13:53:31 Now, we are not here debating Roe vs. Wade or brown

13:53:35 versus the board of education or the merits of don't

13:53:37 ask don't tell.

13:53:38 We are talking about a little bar in the world that

13:53:41 wants to stay in business when every day we have

13:53:45 businesses that are closing, and you have an easy

13:53:47 choice to make.

13:53:50 To be able to help and that's all we need.

13:53:53 I believe the residents in that area will probably

13:53:55 oppose any type of change like they do with the lime,

13:53:59 but of course there's now a lawsuit because the council

13:54:02 chose till two.

13:54:04 For the most part Mangroves is busy on a Friday night.

13:54:07 All the other days of the week it's fairly quiet.

13:54:09 Their dinner ends around 10:00.

13:54:11 But we are essentially talking about plans that may or

13:54:14 may not happen around one night of the week where you

13:54:17 have a place that has up to 250 or so people.




13:54:19 From a personal perspective, I would rather not go to

13:54:22 Mangroves on a Friday night because I would rather do

13:54:26 it at a more quiet place but that doesn't mean we

13:54:29 should punish everyone else who enjoys the

13:54:31 establishment for preferences that other people might

13:54:33 have.

13:54:34 So I encourage you to step outside of what business was

13:54:39 like 20 or 30 years ago, whether because of the change

13:54:41 in business environment we should allow offshore

13:54:43 drilling or not.

13:54:44 We are not talking about those big issues.

13:54:46 We are talking about one choice that can help a bar, a

13:54:49 small business, stay in business.

13:54:51 Thank you for your time.

13:54:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.

13:55:00 >> That's a broad act to follow.

13:55:04 My name is Paula, another one of the usual suspects.

13:55:09 I have been sworn and I have resided at 308 south

13:55:12 Albany since 1989.

13:55:14 At that time the perception of SoHo was Dowdy,

13:55:20 transvestites, crack houses, all of these negative

13:55:24 things.




13:55:24 It's been wonderful to live in a vibrant community.

13:55:27 One of the most compelling advertising campaigns the

13:55:31 last 30 years was the rolling stones campaign of

13:55:34 perceptions versus reality.

13:55:37 For years, SoHo was known as restaurant row.

13:55:41 Technically that is still the reality.

13:55:44 However, the perception is borrow.

13:55:48 And this was borne out last Friday with the city times

13:55:56 Friday section.

13:55:59 Another beer bar joint mix, an unforgiving stretch of

13:56:11 competing pubs and other businesses.

13:56:16 The article discusses the need to drive more business

13:56:20 to support all of the bars in the SoHo area.

13:56:24 And these are perceived as bars.

13:56:28 The drive is there, because people love to come out to

13:56:31 party areas.

13:56:32 But the perception is going to ruin the overall mix of

13:56:35 the neighborhood.

13:56:40 Last month at a very good vibrant community meeting

13:56:42 that Councilwoman Capin held at the Kate Jackson

13:56:45 center, she mentioned that late night drive through our

13:56:49 area she's encouraged by seeing people walking home.




13:56:52 It is good to be able to walk to places that we want.

13:56:55 However, the people walking home after 1:00, 2:00, 3:00

13:57:01 in the morning are not couples going back to the

13:57:05 babysitter and return to their bungalows and their

13:57:08 homes in Palma Ceia and Hyde Park.

13:57:10 They are primarily university of Tampa students who are

13:57:15 still of the age that I used to be when I could party

13:57:18 all night long, carousing their way through the

13:57:20 neighborhood, laughing and enjoying themselves, cutting

13:57:24 up, disturbing other people's lives.

13:57:28 Mangroves is known as a restaurant.

13:57:32 However, examiner.com, which is a national Web site

13:57:42 with local coverage, this is from Mangroves South

13:57:47 Tampa.

13:57:47 If you are looking for an upscale club, Mangroves is in

13:57:51 the SoHo district of South Tampa is the place for you.

13:57:54 During the day, this venue is a full service

13:57:57 restaurant.

13:57:58 By night it's a party theme for South Tampa night owls.

13:58:04 This nightclub has a more sophisticated feel.

13:58:09 Later.

13:58:09 Drinks are relatively inexpensive.




13:58:12 The perception differs from the reality.

13:58:17 We as residents want mixed use.

13:58:20 We love the vibrancy that has come to this part of

13:58:24 town.

13:58:24 We want balanced mixed use.

13:58:27 And balanced means not a preponderance of drinking

13:58:31 establishments.

13:58:31 It means offices, complexes, residents, a vibrant

13:58:36 community.

13:58:37 And I again urge you to deny the petitioner's request

13:58:40 because this will tip the balance in the wrong

13:58:43 direction.

13:58:43 (Bell sounds).

13:58:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

13:58:45 Next speaker.

13:58:53 >> Jonathan Michael Coleman, south Audubon Avenue.

13:58:58 I have been sworn in.

13:59:01 I got a chance to speak in front of you all last

13:59:03 Thursday at the workshop.

13:59:05 I spoke on the young professionals in the area, how

13:59:10 Mangroves has been key in my opinion and other

13:59:15 neighbors and friends who went into the area and then




13:59:19 bought in the area.

13:59:23 There aren't enough places to go with this type of

13:59:25 atmosphere.

13:59:27 The article that she was reading from the Web site,

13:59:30 they described it very well, but at the same time it

13:59:34 doesn't mention all the business functions that go on,

13:59:37 that bring people like myself.

13:59:43 All of you all would fit right in at Mangroves.

13:59:46 Most every night of the week depending on what time you

13:59:49 come.

13:59:49 I wouldn't expect to see you all there very late at

13:59:52 night.

13:59:53 I also don't stay very late at night anymore.

13:59:55 I'm usually home by about midnight.

13:59:57 But it is a place where everybody can go and have a

14:00:00 good time, and that is building the area here; to

14:00:06 continue to grow, and if there's only one place on

14:00:16 Howard now that has an X, Mangroves is committed to

14:00:20 leaving their first class kitchen open and trying to

14:00:22 serve food that people like yourselves and I want to

14:00:25 buy and eat.

14:00:27 And so the later hours of the night, not just later




14:00:30 hours, like they don't want to be just serving alcohol.

14:00:34 The restaurant -- they want to come in and wine and

14:00:40 dine their friends and have people in there that want

14:00:43 more than just alcohol.

14:00:45 And if they are able to make enough money in order to

14:00:48 survive paying the rent on Howard by serving alcohol

14:00:54 and needing a little help instead of 49%, 25, whether

14:00:59 that's enforceable or not, they are committing a lot of

14:01:01 money to pay and keep people serving food and making

14:01:04 food.

14:01:05 And they are doing it openly and honestly.

14:01:09 They are coming to you and saying, we understand that

14:01:12 we are on the verge of not meeting our requirements.

14:01:15 How many other restaurants are coming here and making

14:01:18 that request and saying, you know, look at our

14:01:21 situation, look at our clientele, look at who we appeal

14:01:26 to, look who we invite to the area 14 years ago and

14:01:30 started building that bad neighbor neighborhood that

14:01:33 the last speaker was talking about.

14:01:36 I can relate to that.

14:01:37 I hope you all can relate to that.

14:01:38 They came in and said, we see it's not the perfect area




14:01:43 but we see it as potential, and they literally bridged

14:01:46 the south of Swann by bringing in the same type of

14:01:50 people that they want to continue bringing in.

14:01:53 I urge you all consider making the area a 21 and up

14:01:57 crowd if the other restaurants are acting too much

14:02:01 bars, it is 18-year-olds that might be causing the

14:02:04 problems.

14:02:05 And that's something I would ask you all to not punish

14:02:09 them because they need a little bit of help.

14:02:16 I appreciate you all's time.

14:02:18 And I am not envious of the decision you have to make

14:02:22 and I appreciate you all doing this.

14:02:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

14:02:26 Next speaker.

14:02:26 >> My name is April Black.

14:02:31 I live in the neighborhood.

14:02:32 And by the neighborhood I mean the Courier City

14:02:35 Oscawana neighborhood.

14:02:37 That's Kennedy to Swann, Armenia to the railroad

14:02:41 tracks.

14:02:41 So it's a small neighborhood.

14:02:44 We come together quarterly and have meetings, and we




14:02:49 are invest in the neighborhood.

14:02:51 We all know that the zoning change is a big investment

14:02:53 for Mangroves, for the employees of Mangroves.

14:02:58 They have invested quite a bit of time and money into

14:03:01 this investment, and so have we.

14:03:03 One of the things that I wanted to point out, it's come

14:03:07 up in a couple of different conversations.

14:03:09 I think this is the fifth one we have had, that there

14:03:13 have always been bars.

14:03:17 Well, I moved in in 1976.

14:03:20 My husband was a fireman at the fire house on the

14:03:23 corner of Azeele and Albany.

14:03:25 And so we fell in love with that little house.

14:03:30 This is hard for me.

14:03:32 I want you to know that there have been bars in Hyde

14:03:38 Park.

14:03:38 But TC Choy used to be a gas station, and Mangroves

14:03:43 wasn't always there.

14:03:43 It wasn't there in '76.

14:03:45 The Hooker T Company that just moved in that serves

14:03:50 sangria and draft beers, that was a photo lab.

14:03:52 The coin laundry was not an Irish pub back then.




14:03:59 Chief had a mom and pop convenience store on the

14:04:02 corner.

14:04:02 It also had offices.

14:04:04 The Bungalow was a doctor's office.

14:04:06 The Deck was a farm store, had dairy.

14:04:12 World of Beers, it was an ice cream place, become a

14:04:17 Chinese place.

14:04:18 MacDinton's was a veterinarian, later became a

14:04:21 restaurant called McCobb's, then the original

14:04:24 MacDinton's which had live music.

14:04:28 All the patrons were inside, not on a deck, not making

14:04:31 noise, not walking all through the neighborhoods.

14:04:36 There was no Yard of Ale.

14:04:40 The Rack was the building that had Carol salad car and

14:04:48 it was not a bar.

14:04:51 The Hyde Park cafe had a small gay bar in it, not the

14:04:55 complex it is today.

14:04:56 Yes, there were bars.

14:04:57 There were three.

14:04:59 There was a little bar by the original Whaley's.

14:05:04 There was a little bar in the building with chief and a

14:05:07 little bar that was The Carrousel where the Hyde Park




14:05:10 is.

14:05:12 People want change.

14:05:13 We like the change that's come.

14:05:15 We like the vibrant neighborhood we live in.

14:05:17 But enough is enough.

14:05:19 Okay.

14:05:20 It's time to restore the balance.

14:05:23 Each time one of these businesses changed from a

14:05:26 laundromat, a doctor's office, whatever, we came they

14:05:31 came before you and they asked for the change.

14:05:32 It time to say no.

14:05:34 It's time to put your foot down and say you are a

14:05:38 restaurant.

14:05:38 You need to remain a restaurant.

14:05:40 If you need to change your prices or whatever you have

14:05:42 to do to remain a restaurant, that's what you need to

14:05:45 do.

14:05:45 If you have fund-raisers that only require that the

14:05:47 people who come buy alcohol, then it's very, very hard

14:05:50 to maintain that 51-49% balance.

14:05:54 There are things they can do.

14:05:55 There are other restaurants in the neighborhood.




14:05:58 Bungalow is a bar.

14:05:59 It's very popular.

14:06:01 And it's serving a lot of food.

14:06:02 (Bell sounds)

14:06:04 They can, too.

14:06:04 Thank you.

14:06:08 >> Debby Hudson.

14:06:14 I'm one of the owners, and I have been sworn in.

14:06:16 We are asking for zoning today which would allow us to

14:06:18 remain as Mangroves.

14:06:20 This is the only option available to us for our

14:06:24 survival.

14:06:24 We are not making our numbers due to the economy.

14:06:27 You already heard that.

14:06:28 But we are a responsible vendor.

14:06:31 We have been in business now for almost 15 years and

14:06:33 have never had a liquor violation.

14:06:35 We have never heavy any kind of violation to do with

14:06:38 alcohol.

14:06:38 We have proven ourselves as responsible business

14:06:40 owners.

14:06:41 People come before you every hearing asking for 4(COP),




14:06:46 and you don't know, they say they are one thing and you

14:06:49 don't know what they are going to be.

14:06:50 We have proven ourselves.

14:06:52 You are going to get what you are going to get.

14:06:53 And we are not just a bar.

14:06:56 We are a restaurant.

14:06:57 We serve fine dining food.

14:06:59 We have concierges send people from all over the city

14:07:04 as far away as the Don Cesar.

14:07:06 We are on a one-way street.

14:07:08 We have a lot going against us and I am trying harder

14:07:11 than I ever have with weddings.

14:07:14 Bars don't do weddings.

14:07:15 We are pushing celebrations.

14:07:18 We are catering on-site and off-site.

14:07:23 We have been good in the community.

14:07:25 We have been gad to our neighbors.

14:07:27 We have listened to what our neighbors have to say.

14:07:30 And directly around us we are very friendly with our

14:07:34 neighbors.

14:07:35 I believe that if we had -- if we were involved in the

14:07:38 Oscawana business association, businesses and rental




14:07:43 properties, rental owners were involved, that we could

14:07:46 probably work together and get solutions.

14:07:48 We are not allowed in that association.

14:07:50 So everything that goes on in that association we don't

14:07:53 hear until later.

14:07:55 We are one of the few independent restaurants that

14:07:58 serve chef crew seen.

14:08:02 Tampa had -- cuisine.

14:08:05 St. Pete has far more dining establishments that are

14:08:07 locally owned.

14:08:07 I feel that part of this is to do with the huge change

14:08:12 of your capital growth, that has a huge amount of

14:08:15 buying power and advertising dollars.

14:08:17 Many of these chains are also in big financial downturn

14:08:22 today.

14:08:23 We have people at Mangroves that have eaten from all

14:08:27 over the world, from the Don Cesar to the Marriott

14:08:31 downtown.

14:08:31 The area 15 years ago, the chatterbox was there in

14:08:37 1976.

14:08:38 Jimmy Macs.

14:08:40 Tiny.




14:08:42 I think chatterbox opened in the 40s and I don't

14:08:45 think they served any type of food except for popcorn.

14:08:49 Also in the article that was mentioned, along with all

14:08:52 the bar fights, Mangroves is not mentioned in that

14:08:58 article.

14:08:59 We are not considered one of the bars.

14:09:00 We are not part of all these police calls either.

14:09:06 I would witness for two Fridays in a row where I saw

14:09:09 red and blue lights flashing in my driveway and I went

14:09:12 to the officer and asked what is going on?

14:09:15 Someone ran a red light.

14:09:17 And I waited for 45 minutes while he had those lights

14:09:20 on in my parking lot and asked him, is this going to go

14:09:23 against me?

14:09:24 And he said, it is on your address.

14:09:26 And I said, well now I have to prove that I had nothing

14:09:28 to do with it.

14:09:30 And he goes, yes, unfortunately, that's the way it

14:09:32 works.

14:09:35 We are not making our number.

14:09:36 And this is the only license that we have.

14:09:39 There is not a separate club license where you can




14:09:42 serve dinner.

14:09:45 (Bell sounds)

14:09:46 Sorry.

14:09:46 Thank you.

14:09:47 A little nervous.

14:09:48 >> My name is Walter Crumbley, the president of the

14:10:06 homeowners association.

14:10:11 I am a slow talker and have a long ways to get it all

14:10:14 in.

14:10:20 I think it's important we need to recognize if you

14:10:25 people approve this you can be creating within the next

14:10:28 three to five years another MacDinton's.

14:10:42 They made their reputation on food and virtually Erv

14:10:45 everybody who signed a petition or came up here to

14:10:48 speak talked about the great food, so if the food is so

14:10:52 great, why is alcohol suddenly a big problem and you

14:10:57 have you can't make your numbers on the food?

14:10:59 That's something I have not understood.

14:11:01 The police have serious problems with this as indicated

14:11:07 in their report.

14:11:19 denying this application will not set a legally binding

14:11:32 precedent, but let me tell you that everybody is




14:11:34 watching.

14:11:38 You can't believe that people who came down here in the

14:11:44 past to get all these alcohol licenses if they didn't

14:11:47 think they had a pretty good shot at it, and this is

14:11:49 borne out by the fact that within a two or three-block

14:11:53 area you have over 15 alcohol-serving places.

14:11:57 Not withstanding your city code that has separation

14:12:01 requirements and everything like that, all which were

14:12:06 routinely waived over the years.

14:12:14 One of the first mistakes I guess that ever happened

14:12:17 was MacDinton's.

14:12:20 The thing has just gone completely out of alcohol.

14:12:23 Also, a problem with drinking, DUI, parking, and you

14:12:31 all have this to some extent with the parking.

14:12:33 We still have the number two area in the City of Tampa

14:12:36 for DUI arrests is right there in the SoHo district.

14:12:45 Why would you want to create this problem or make it

14:12:47 worse than it already is?

14:12:52 Take a good look at Ybor and what happened down there

14:12:56 over the years with the granting of licenses and this

14:13:01 sort of thing?

14:13:02 And what kind of problems did you have down there when




14:13:05 you had high concentrations of places that served

14:13:08 alcohol?

14:13:09 And that's the same way that we are heading in SoHo,

14:13:13 and we are quite concerned about it.

14:13:18 Our membership is open to businesses.

14:13:23 You know, they can pay dues if they want or they can

14:13:27 just come to the meeting if they want.

14:13:28 The only hooker is we don't give anyone but residents,

14:13:33 homeowners and opportunity to vote.

14:13:36 (Bell sounds)

14:13:37 Thank you.

14:13:43 >> My name is POGOS, and I live down on Howard Avenue.

14:13:52 One of the reasons I used to live there is because of

14:13:55 places like Mangroves and what it has turned into.

14:14:00 Now today I have a lot of nonsense on the opposing side

14:14:05 concerning what the place looked like in 1976.

14:14:13 A couple of articles that ran, I don't know if they are

14:14:18 100 percent correct or not 100 percent.

14:14:20 I heard ladies or gentlemen speaking about college

14:14:23 students walking home from Mangroves.

14:14:27 I visit the place quite often.

14:14:30 It's one of my favorite places in Tampa.




14:14:32 And I have rarely ever seen a college kid in the

14:14:35 location.

14:14:35 I don't know too many college kids that can afford $12

14:14:39 martinis.

14:14:41 It's a very upscale place.

14:14:44 And Mangroves is the reason why Howard Avenue has

14:14:50 turned itself to what has slowly turned itself on its

14:14:54 own.

14:14:54 The city is spending all kind of money on Channelside,

14:14:56 here, there, trying to get walking -- where now people

14:15:03 are building apartment buildings close to Howard

14:15:05 Avenue, because of Howard and the district and the

14:15:09 upscale area it has become.

14:15:15 Well, that's all I would like to say.

14:15:17 I was very upset about some of the things I was hearing

14:15:19 from the opposing side, and they don't have their facts

14:15:24 straight.

14:15:24 Just like the gentleman said, the police department

14:15:29 says they have a lot of problems.

14:15:30 That's the first time I heard of the police department

14:15:34 saying they have a lot of problems with Mangroves.

14:15:36 Like I said, the people said they have a very clean




14:15:42 record.

14:15:42 I have never seen episodes of there the last 10, 12

14:15:46 years I have been frequently visiting the place.

14:15:48 I used to own three mortgage companies near downtown

14:15:51 Tampa.

14:15:52 I used to have a lot of clients meet there.

14:15:56 The food is superb.

14:16:00 The after-hour night life is very quiet in the area.

14:16:06 And again I enjoyed living in that neighborhood.

14:16:09 That's why I moved there.

14:16:16 Thank you.

14:16:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.

14:16:18 >> Good afternoon.

14:16:21 My name is John Smith.

14:16:22 I live -- it really is John Smith, by the way.

14:16:25 [ Laughter ]

14:16:29 1926 river crossing driver drive, Valrico. I am

14:16:35 obviously not a neighbor to Mangroves but I have been

14:16:38 going to Mangroves for eight, nine, ten years.

14:16:41 I have been going for a number of reasons.

14:16:43 Up with, the maturity of the clientele.

14:16:45 They are not the same as the rest of whatever the term




14:16:47 is, teeny boppers or SoHo.

14:16:50 They are very mature group of people, and maturity

14:16:53 comes either through the words of young people here, or

14:16:57 maturity in terms of years, as in myself.

14:17:00 And I won't tell you my age, but just suffice that I

14:17:05 remember when Eisenhower was president, so if that puts

14:17:08 it into context.

14:17:09 Mangroves caters to a wide variety of mature people,

14:17:14 mature clientele.

14:17:15 The second one as we know, the owners are very vigilant

14:17:19 and know they are vigilant on underage drinking.

14:17:22 And the third reason and equally important is the

14:17:24 first-class quality of the food and beverage.

14:17:28 And to give you a real quick real life example, earlier

14:17:33 this year I was able to host Alysse, on the popular

14:17:39 history show history detective.

14:17:41 She was here in Tampa speaking at the history center.

14:17:44 Alysse lives on the upper side of New York City so

14:17:49 she's used to a certain level of sophistication.

14:17:52 I was able to take her to a restaurant after her event

14:17:55 at the history center, and I have nothing against Sam

14:17:59 Seltzer and the cow out front, but of course I took her




14:18:03 to Mangroves, and it worked out absolutely perfectly.

14:18:06 So again I just want to affirm that it's a first-class

14:18:10 establishment who caters to mature people of all ages.

14:18:19 >> Good afternoon.

14:18:22 I have been sworn.

14:18:22 My name is Jason pally.

14:18:27 I'm a seven year employee of Mangroves.

14:18:29 Seven years I have been there.

14:18:33 I might be a little emotional up here.

14:18:36 So I apologize.

14:18:37 I do speak on behalf of the 24 employees, my family, I

14:18:43 consider the staff of Mangroves.

14:18:50 Most of us have been there, I would say, half the staff

14:18:53 over three years, and it's not just the working

14:18:59 environment that's provided that is incredible, by the

14:19:01 way, the reason we stay there.

14:19:06 For the livelihood in this economy, you know, we are

14:19:09 concerned.

14:19:11 We have staff, children, wives, family we have to take

14:19:17 care of.

14:19:17 Right now there are no jobs.

14:19:19 So if you vote against us, pretty much, 25 families are




14:19:28 impacted.

14:19:28 So I would like you to take that into consideration.

14:19:30 Now, getting back to the lady who says the reports on

14:19:38 the Internet, you need to know also that we are ranked

14:19:42 number 20 on Trip Advisor. That's one of the biggest

14:19:46 Web sites in the world for people to travel and find

14:19:49 restaurants.

14:19:49 I'm a server. If it wasn't for the clientele, the

14:19:56 critics who love our food, love our environment, I

14:19:58 wouldn't be there, obviously.

14:20:02 Like I said, if you could just please on behalf of the

14:20:06 staff to save our jobs, take into consideration.

14:20:11 Thank you very much.

14:20:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.

14:20:14 >> We have more, but I think they have graciously said

14:20:14 maybe we have covered it all, and just have a little

14:20:22 time for rebuttal, please.

14:20:31 >> Robert Clafer, 3707 West Leona. I have been sworn.

14:20:36 I am here to talk about two issues with regards to

14:20:38 Mangroves that you ought to know about.

14:20:40 First and foremost, I work for a real estate office in

14:20:45 Hyde Park, Kelly and Associates.




14:20:48 We cater to people who potentially want to move to the

14:20:51 area.

14:20:51 Of course we want to show the upside of Tampa.

14:20:54 I frequently take my clients to Mangroves who are

14:20:59 looking to buy in Hyde Park or looking to buy in South

14:21:01 Tampa, looking to buy in Palma Ceia, because it is one

14:21:04 of the few upscale restaurants outside of Bern's, that

14:21:09 they will be able to see and experience in Tampa when

14:21:11 they make a decision to move here.

14:21:13 I recently took a rain maker, as I like to call them,

14:21:17 somebody who is bringing jobs to the area to Mangroves

14:21:20 to wine and dine them to move here.

14:21:22 They subsequently did.

14:21:23 I think it was because of the food.

14:21:25 Maybe not.

14:21:26 But they did move here.

14:21:28 That's issue number one.

14:21:30 Issue number two, my child attends Roosevelt

14:21:33 elementary.

14:21:34 They are throwing their biggest fund-raiser this

14:21:36 weekend.

14:21:37 One of the biggest sponsors that's donating their time,




14:21:42 money, and food is to this cause is Mangroves.

14:21:45 They are a good community player.

14:21:47 They should be preserved.

14:21:48 Thank you.

14:21:48 >> Could we have two minutes of rebuttal?

14:21:58 In 1997 there were approximately 34 establishments that

14:22:01 served alcohol.

14:22:01 Now there are approximately 41.

14:22:03 Population has about doubled since 1997.

14:22:08 This is not the start of a precedent.

14:22:09 It's a 14 year experience.

14:22:11 And those 10 or 12 businesses -- we love our neighbors.

14:22:21 Mentioned 10, 12, 13 businesses that closed and

14:22:24 employees out of work and their families ands kids, one

14:22:27 wants to testify, she's six months but she's underage.

14:22:30 Therefore there's no underage drinking at Mangroves.

14:22:33 She is six months, Olivia Christensen and you heard

14:22:36 from her eight times already and she's welcome to stay,

14:22:39 and she is welcome to stay along with the other 25

14:22:42 families that are dependent upon -- honor is more

14:22:45 important than just those families?

14:22:46 It's the community that needs the resources to all the




14:22:49 young people, to keep the young people, to keep -- and

14:22:55 some of those national ratings and some of the things,

14:22:59 having to adapt.

14:23:00 Those 13 businesses, I know they failed because they

14:23:06 couldn't adapt.

14:23:07 We ask that you let us adapt an save this community's

14:23:09 resource.

14:23:10 Thank you.

14:23:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Questions by council?

14:23:23 >>YVONNE CAPIN: There are a couple of things that I

14:23:26 wrote down here.

14:23:28 And as you well know, I did have that community meeting

14:23:31 in October 5th, and on October the 8th, a

14:23:35 Friday evening, I walked with sergeant Torres and her

14:23:45 officers from 11 p.m. till 2 a.m. the entire, entire

14:23:51 area.

14:23:53 Howard Avenue, Platt, all of it.

14:23:56 I even went in an alley on a possible raid in a home

14:24:00 where they thought there was underage drinkers, which

14:24:03 turned out it was not.

14:24:06 It was the home of a young professional that lives two

14:24:09 blocks from Howard Avenue.




14:24:15 They were fine.

14:24:16 There was not anything other than they thought there

14:24:20 was underage university of Tampa.

14:24:23 They were young professionals.

14:24:24 They live in the area.

14:24:25 Those people walking to their houses live in the area.

14:24:31 One.

14:24:31 The other is, I agree that this neighborhood -- and the

14:24:36 reason I'm saying this is this neighborhood can't

14:24:44 sustain all the cars coming in.

14:24:46 It's meant to be a neighborhood.

14:24:48 It's meant to be -- I asked at my meeting of October

14:24:53 5th how many neighborhood associations allow

14:24:55 businesses to join, and a few hands went up.

14:24:59 That's very good because the businesses are your

14:25:01 neighbors.

14:25:04 It's a neighborhood.

14:25:05 Everyone is there.

14:25:08 I've done a lot of hours on this.

14:25:11 I've spent a lot of hours on this because this is in my

14:25:14 district.

14:25:15 And one of the things that I want to point out is that




14:25:21 I went to a brand new place on Thursday evening with my

14:25:25 daughter and son-in-law, which is in the opposite end

14:25:28 of Howard Avenue, right at Bayshore Boulevard, and I

14:25:32 looked at their cocktail menu, and there were -- their

14:25:36 cocktail menu was ten -- there was no cocktail less

14:25:39 than $10.

14:25:41 About $15.

14:25:42 And that was what was the draw there.

14:25:51 Very quiet, very sustained, very mature people there.

14:25:58 I want to just say that's the kind of places -- and

14:26:02 what I'm looking at is one of the things that was

14:26:04 brought up before, do we want to penalize the

14:26:17 businesses that are complying, are trying to, and are

14:26:24 mature, are a good neighbor, and what we have here to

14:26:31 borrow a line from a movie, what we have here is a

14:26:35 failure to comply, because I heard 14 times bars.

14:26:44 They are not bars.

14:26:45 They are incidental to primary use and restaurants.

14:26:52 Now, the problem is a failure to comply, and that is

14:26:59 what we have.

14:27:00 When you refer to these places as bars, that's wrong.

14:27:04 They are not.




14:27:08 They are not.

14:27:09 And they need to comply.

14:27:19 I had another note.

14:27:20 Again, that 51/49, I have heard this from upscale

14:27:24 restaurants that are not in that area telling me that

14:27:29 they are having a hard time because, for instance, ten

14:27:35 years ago a hamburger was $4 and a drink was 2.50 or $3

14:27:42 or beer.

14:27:43 Now you are looking at a cocktail being $8 and the

14:27:45 hamburger 7 and the cocktail 10 and hamburger 7, and

14:27:51 they are not being able -- and there are places that I

14:27:54 am sure that are very reputable, and their numbers are

14:27:58 skewed.

14:28:00 And they are trying very, very hard to stay within

14:28:03 this.

14:28:04 So I don't know what the answer is to the 49/51 but I

14:28:09 do know what the answer is to these places that are

14:28:12 being called bars, and again it is a failure to comply

14:28:17 with the conditions that were put on there.

14:28:21 Not necessarily by -- that everyone keeps going, oh,

14:28:25 this City Council, this City Council.

14:28:26 Some of these were in there 25, 30 years, way before




14:28:30 any of us were up here.

14:28:32 But how do we keep them in compliance?

14:28:39 And that is what I have been working on with legal,

14:28:44 with zoning, with law enforcement, with the fire

14:28:49 department.

14:28:54 And again I feel that we have a very reputable

14:28:59 establishment here.

14:29:00 And I am going to say this.

14:29:02 I did vote for it before, and I am going to again for

14:29:05 the same reason that I did before.

14:29:11 It is a failure to comply on everyone's part out there.

14:29:18 And here we have a very good upscale restaurant with a

14:29:24 mature --

14:29:32 Thank you.

14:29:34 >>: Thank you.

14:29:34 Selling alcohol is not a right.

14:29:38 It's a privilege.

14:29:39 You have to come and apply.

14:29:43 If you didn't have to come and apply you could sell

14:29:45 alcohol anywhere you want.

14:29:48 Why were these restrictions placed?

14:29:51 Well, I was here when it was 60/40, and I was here, and




14:29:57 one of the sponsors of 51-49 to correct the problem.

14:30:02 There is nothing wrong with the establishment.

14:30:06 I don't see anything wrong with the establishment.

14:30:08 I don't see anything wrong with having a restaurant.

14:30:10 I don't believe that this establishment or any other

14:30:14 establishment should have applies record just because

14:30:18 the incident was reported there.

14:30:19 I don't believe it at all.

14:30:22 But let me tell you what I do believe in.

14:30:25 I don't believe that the food and the alcohol at the

14:30:32 food cost, the alcohol cost has doubled and the food

14:30:34 cost has not in the last 15 years.

14:30:38 What is a case of liquor today?

14:30:40 Because you get 80% profit on alcohol.

14:30:49 And you are argue that all you want.

14:30:54 It isn't much less than food.

14:30:55 So it's more profitable to sell alcohol than it does

14:30:59 food.

14:30:59 The numbers may be skewed a percent or two different

14:31:03 but let me tell you what worries me.

14:31:05 I asked the legal department in case they know.

14:31:07 Has there ever been a switch in a restaurant business




14:31:10 in the last ten years in this city from a 4(COP-R) to a

14:31:15 4(COP-X)?

14:31:24 I'm asking.

14:31:25 I don't know.

14:31:25 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.

14:31:26 I haven't been here ten years.

14:31:28 I can't answer that question.

14:31:29 I believe it has happened but I don't have details.

14:31:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me tell what you is going to

14:31:34 happen.

14:31:34 This is going to start a process of which more and more

14:31:41 are going to come by on the same thing.

14:31:45 You can do and say what you like.

14:31:47 But the reality is you knew what you were getting in

14:31:54 when you signed that agreement verbally, or legally

14:31:57 when you applied for 51/49.

14:32:02 Sales become more important in reality.

14:32:06 When you are selling alcohol and the bar is open, and

14:32:11 you can tell me your kitchen is going to be open.

14:32:13 I'm not talking about this location.

14:32:14 Any location.

14:32:16 You can't have a complementary full kitchen staff with




14:32:19 two or three cooks, a dishwasher, a prep person, a

14:32:23 salad person, and make the numbers meet.

14:32:26 You can't do it.

14:32:27 It doesn't work out.

14:32:31 For alcohol you need one or two bartenders and a backup

14:32:34 for a bar.

14:32:35 That works out because the profit is much greater.

14:32:38 So you can debate all you want.

14:32:39 I'm not looking for a debate.

14:32:41 I'm just saying that I remember filet mignon used to be

14:32:46 5.25 a pound.

14:32:47 Now you go to Sam's, it's about $10 a pound.

14:32:52 So you are telling me that a case of not 175 but where

14:32:59 you get 30-some drinks a bottle, let's say $150.

14:33:06 Now it's 300?

14:33:08 It might be.

14:33:10 But you want to push that because now you are selling

14:33:13 $12 that was mentioned here martinis, and that's 12

14:33:18 times 31 or 32 depending on who is pouring the drink of

14:33:22 that unit cost.

14:33:24 Times 12.

14:33:26 So out of one bottle, out of one bottle, the mark-up




14:33:41 which you get, it's much more than selling a case of

14:33:44 filet mignon.

14:33:46 So what we are doing here is looking at a precedent

14:33:51 setting that will change those that says, oh, I can't

14:33:55 survive, by evidence submitted that you are a great

14:34:00 restaurant.

14:34:00 I don't doubt that at all.

14:34:03 But you do catering.

14:34:05 I don't doubt that at all.

14:34:08 That you have a great clientele.

14:34:11 I can tell by the public here today, that you have

14:34:13 people driving long distances to go there.

14:34:15 I don't doubt that at all.

14:34:17 But the most important thing that I look at is that you

14:34:21 meet your obligation on the day you got that contract

14:34:27 14 years ago.

14:34:30 So what I'm saying is, you have got one supporting it

14:34:34 and one that will not.

14:34:37 Because now you are down to five.

14:34:40 And I'm not an oddsmaker.

14:34:42 I just tell you the facts.

14:34:44 The fact are that you market it sometime back, not




14:34:47 now -- this is not yesterday's problem that sort of

14:34:50 sprung up.

14:34:51 It's slowly creeping up.

14:34:53 And you have seen it slowly creeping up and now you

14:34:57 come here and say, well, guess what, I want to be a

14:35:00 bar.

14:35:01 That's what you are if you get the 4(COP-X).

14:35:03 I don't want to hear about the contract that you want

14:35:05 to sign because that's illegal.

14:35:07 I can't take that.

14:35:08 Or the contract that you do have in place.

14:35:12 Chairman, thank you very much for the time.

14:35:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.

14:35:15 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.

14:35:16 Ms. Kert, if we give them their bar designation, their

14:35:26 4(COP-X), right?

14:35:30 That's what it's called?

14:35:32 And then as will happen, no doubt, if that happens,

14:35:40 then another restaurant -- I love that baby.

14:35:48 I think you could make money with modeling.

14:35:53 Very cute.

14:35:56 They come in, and what do we have when the next




14:36:03 restaurant comes in and comes and tells us what great

14:36:06 food they have, and they parade all their, you know,

14:36:11 clients, I guess you call them clients, diners, and

14:36:18 then we say, no, we are not going to give you a bar,

14:36:22 because really we have got too many bars in SoHo, and

14:36:25 the neighbors don't want it.

14:36:27 So we say the next restaurant that comes in, no, you

14:36:33 cannot have that.

14:36:35 Then we go to -- what's your legal opinion about how

14:36:43 you will defend that decision?

14:36:47 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.

14:36:52 We would defend that decision depending upon the

14:36:55 circumstances of the case.

14:36:58 If, for example, you granted --

14:37:01 >>MARY MULHERN: Right, I told you, what we are going

14:37:05 to deny it on is the fact that it's not compatible, and

14:37:09 that it's not to the general welfare of the

14:37:14 neighborhood, so how do you defend that?

14:37:18 >>REBECCA KERT: Council, I am going to take a step

14:37:20 back and just say -- explain a couple things.

14:37:24 Number one, every case that comes in is considered

14:37:28 uniquely.




14:37:29 They may back up to a neighborhood.

14:37:32 They may back up to commercial.

14:37:34 They may be closer to the road.

14:37:35 They may be further from the road.

14:37:37 At the same time, what people say sets a precedent, it

14:37:44 doesn't set a precedent for situations that are not the

14:37:46 same.

14:37:46 If you have a situation that comes in that's similarly

14:37:50 situated, I would expect and a court would expect that

14:37:53 you would treat the similarly situated establishment

14:37:56 the same.

14:37:59 >>MARY MULHERN: And that is part of our responsibility

14:38:01 here, right?

14:38:04 >>REBECCA KERT: Yes.

14:38:06 >>MARY MULHERN: I think that's what I wanted to get

14:38:10 across.

14:38:10 If you call it a precedent, a trend, whatever, but

14:38:14 clearly we have seen it happen much in this three

14:38:16 blocks that the more liquor sales that have been

14:38:22 approved here -- and we have approved them, and they

14:38:25 all have, you know, many, many, many of them have had

14:38:28 that waiver of the distance separation.




14:38:34 And we saw what happened in Ybor.

14:38:37 And I have to say that, you know, my four years here, I

14:38:44 don't remember, or three and a half, I don't remember

14:38:47 us ever giving a restaurant upzoning it to -- I don't

14:38:53 know.

14:38:54 Maybe Abbye does.

14:38:55 But in this neighborhood, we haven't.

14:38:58 Clearly.

14:38:58 Because MacDinton's was before I came on here.

14:39:03 So what I think council needs to remember is that we

14:39:11 have spent hours and hours and hours, this council,

14:39:15 this term, listening to people from this neighborhood

14:39:20 who wanted to sell alcohol, wanted later hours, wanted

14:39:24 longer hours, wanted, you know, to sell liquor in

14:39:27 addition to beer and wine, and we have had the

14:39:32 neighbors come in here regularly, asking us not to do

14:39:36 it.

14:39:36 So sometimes we approve it.

14:39:39 Sometimes we don't.

14:39:40 That's irrelevant.

14:39:41 But the reality is that this is what we do here.

14:39:47 And our job is to listen to the neighborhood, and what




14:39:51 they want.

14:39:52 And I can tell you that this is not some exceptional

14:39:57 case.

14:39:58 It's just like every other one where the neighbors came

14:40:01 in and said, please don't do this.

14:40:04 We are sick of it.

14:40:05 We don't want more drinking.

14:40:06 We don't want more DUIs.

14:40:08 We don't want more people acting inappropriately on

14:40:15 their way to cars, parking in front of our house.

14:40:17 I mean, hundreds and hundreds of hours in my short time

14:40:20 on this council we have spent on this.

14:40:22 So this is not -- you know, it's like one of the people

14:40:29 who doesn't live in the neighborhood, young people who

14:40:32 I'm glad that they want to, you know, stay in Tampa.

14:40:37 I would love to see my daughter come back.

14:40:39 She's not going to come back because of a restaurant

14:40:42 turned into a bar, I'll tell you that.

14:40:49 I lost my train of thought.

14:40:50 But, basically, this is just-this will continue the

14:40:57 trend.

14:40:57 And it will just open up the doors to get ready for




14:41:01 your next six months on this council.

14:41:05 Everybody will want to turn into a bar.

14:41:08 And I just have to differ with that business model that

14:41:12 in this recession the only thing you can do to stand

14:41:15 out as a business -- and that story in the Tribune

14:41:19 basically said, you know, had what's going on here?

14:41:22 Why do we need more bars?

14:41:26 If you choose in that neighborhood to turn into a bar

14:41:28 instead of a distinctive restaurant, you are setting

14:41:31 yourselves up for the toughest competition.

14:41:34 You know, Seminole Heights, somewhere else.

14:41:38 How about East Tampa, or Tampa Palms?

14:41:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Now we are going too far.

14:41:45 >>MARY MULHERN: I am not going too far.

14:41:46 I am remaining you this is my neighborhood.

14:41:48 This is my neighborhood.

14:41:50 I live there.

14:41:51 And I'm telling you that the neighbors do not want more

14:41:55 bars there.

14:41:58 And think about put yourselves in my house and see if

14:42:02 that -- or better yet, in Mr. Crumbley's house and see

14:42:07 if you want another bar.




14:42:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Hold it, hold it, hold it.

14:42:13 Councilman Caetano.

14:42:14 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Ms. Mulhern mentioned that we set

14:42:17 a precedent.

14:42:18 But every case is judged on their own merits.

14:42:22 Okay.

14:42:23 Each one individually.

14:42:26 A bar is a bar.

14:42:28 Mangroves is not a bar.

14:42:29 It's a restaurant.

14:42:30 They serve great food.

14:42:33 And sometimes I might say I'm going to the bar but it's

14:42:38 really not a bar.

14:42:39 So I think, like Mrs. Capin said here, a bar is not a

14:42:44 bar and I agree with that and every case has to be

14:42:46 based on its own merits.

14:42:48 I remember when we were doing the zoning for Busch

14:42:52 Gardens, some guy got up and said that there were 23

14:42:56 drunk drivers on Busch Boulevard.

14:42:58 Does that mean they came from Busch Gardens?

14:43:01 No.

14:43:02 My answer was it came from the blue martini.




14:43:04 They were going home on Busch Gardens.

14:43:08 [ Laughter ]

14:43:18 You weren't there.

14:43:23 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Okay.

14:43:24 Here we go.

14:43:26 I am going to go one by one here.

14:43:32 It is a privilege.

14:43:32 No one needs to sell alcoholic beverages.

14:43:36 That is an absolute privilege that we here did the

14:43:43 zoning permit so that you can go over to the state and

14:43:46 say, look, I can serve alcoholic beverages.

14:43:50 That's one.

14:43:53 The other one was we talked about alcohol and how many

14:43:56 drinks you can get out of a bottle of whatever, rum.

14:44:01 I know that there are establishments on Howard Avenue

14:44:04 that sell two and three hundred dollar bottles of wine

14:44:10 with their food.

14:44:11 They have a $600 wine bill with a $100 food bill.

14:44:18 This happens.

14:44:19 As a matter of fact, one of the officers said to me

14:44:22 that evening that out of one of these establishments,

14:44:27 granted again I go back to it is a failure of




14:44:30 compliance.

14:44:31 It is not -- they are not bars.

14:44:34 They are restaurants.

14:44:35 They are incidental to use.

14:44:39 And unless compliance comes in to play, they can call

14:44:45 them bars.

14:44:46 They are not.

14:44:47 And it is up to us, the city, to make sure that they

14:44:53 comply.

14:44:53 That's one.

14:44:54 So they are not bars.

14:44:58 Secondly, I was told by one of the police officers, you

14:45:06 know, you can't have open containers, and they are very

14:45:10 vigilant about that.

14:45:11 Well, they stopped a gentleman with a bottle of

14:45:14 champagne.

14:45:14 It happened to be a $1,000 bottle of champagne that he

14:45:18 walked out of an establishment with.

14:45:22 So, yes, you do -- particularly in the better places,

14:45:28 you do have the wine which is very, very expensive to

14:45:33 your meal.

14:45:33 So the numbers get skewed, and they do get skewed, and




14:45:39 it's no fault of the very reputable establishment that

14:45:45 has a wine cellar.

14:45:48 Also on here, we have in support -- and this goes back

14:45:53 to -- I'm looking at this.

14:45:57 This is before I was here.

14:45:58 There were 32 signed letters from residents of Courier

14:46:04 City in support of this going back, and 33606, 33609,

14:46:13 this is the neighborhood.

14:46:14 And they are in support.

14:46:15 I have it here.

14:46:19 And what I want to say is, do we want to keep, you

14:46:23 know, going to the lowest denominator instead of saying

14:46:30 stop?

14:46:31 You know, where is this reputable restaurant -- well,

14:46:36 how are we going to equate in a place that has been

14:46:40 established for 14 years to some of these places that

14:46:46 are not complying and are acting like bars, and should

14:46:50 we go along with it?

14:46:51 Oh, they are bars, they are bars, they are bars.

14:46:54 They are not bars.

14:46:55 And that is the problem.

14:46:56 And it is very aggravating to the neighborhood.




14:47:02 I understand the neighborhood's frustration.

14:47:05 I understand the reputable restaurant owners'

14:47:10 frustration with this.

14:47:12 Again, we will work on a mechanism for compliance.

14:47:17 Thank you.

14:47:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, let me just say a few things and

14:47:21 then try to bring this to closure.

14:47:24 This is about the third time that this petition has

14:47:25 been before us.

14:47:29 Things change.

14:47:32 Time brings about change.

14:47:34 Life brings about change.

14:47:37 Economics bring about change.

14:47:41 What worked 20 years ago does not work today.

14:47:45 A fact.

14:47:46 Four years ago, our school in our church was realizing

14:47:50 300 students every week.

14:47:52 300 kids.

14:47:56 No governmental subsidy, period.

14:47:58 Private support for students.

14:48:03 You have a bus to go try to pick up kids.

14:48:05 This is strictly a private school operated by a




14:48:07 religious institution, existed for 25 years, up top

14:48:13 three years ago.

14:48:14 300 kids.

14:48:18 No governmental subsidies.

14:48:20 I will tell you today we have 170 kids.

14:48:23 A majority of those kids on governmental subsidies.

14:48:31 Because the economy, the economics changed.

14:48:40 They changed.

14:48:41 Up until three years ago we didn't have to do any

14:48:47 advertisement, no marketing.

14:48:51 We do all of that now as well as go on the phone and

14:48:54 call people.

14:48:58 I want to put that on the record so we understand that

14:49:01 sometimes change takes place, not because we want it,

14:49:09 because of time, because of the economy, and that's

14:49:11 what happened, I believe, in some of these instances.

14:49:13 Secondly, I want to say we have an obligation to hear

14:49:18 every citizen that comes in this room, not just

14:49:21 neighborhoods.

14:49:21 We have an obligation to hear every citizen that walks

14:49:24 through this door.

14:49:26 I want that to be clear.




14:49:28 Everybody comes in.

14:49:29 You have opportunity when you come in here.

14:49:31 We have a right, we should hear you based on our

14:49:35 agenda, based on our time and all that.

14:49:37 We want to hear from you.

14:49:40 Second.

14:49:41 The other thing that we have to understand is that this

14:49:43 council, I will tell you that this council has taken

14:49:47 action to really protect the SoHo area.

14:49:53 I read the backup material, talked about the mitigation

14:49:55 that was put in place to address the parking issues.

14:49:58 Is that right?

14:50:01 Come on up now.

14:50:02 It's your time now.

14:50:05 There have been some impacts in the past.

14:50:07 And I understand the parking.

14:50:09 So what do we do?

14:50:10 We put what in place?

14:50:13 >>REBECCA KERT: City Council adopted a parking program

14:50:16 in the areas around the SoHo district where you are

14:50:19 only allowed to park by permit.

14:50:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And we did that to help the problem in




14:50:25 the area and to mitigate the problem and to correct

14:50:28 some of the issues that were there.

14:50:32 Is that correct?

14:50:32 >> I believe that that was the stated reason for

14:50:34 adopting the ordinance, yeah.

14:50:35 >> Thank you.

14:50:36 I will call you back in just a minute.

14:50:40 The other thing I want to say is this council since I

14:50:43 have been here has always listened to neighborhoods,

14:50:45 always tr