TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, October 21, 2010
9:00 a.m. session
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09:02:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come to
09:02:41 The chair will yield to Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:02:44 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to welcome reverend Jim
09:02:46 Harnish, the senior pastor at Hyde Park United
09:02:49 Methodist to give our invocation this morning.
09:02:52 >> Good morning.
09:02:54 October 24th marks the anniversary of the United
09:02:56 Nations charter.
09:02:58 And so I want to have been share this morning a prayer
09:03:01 by Dag Hammarskjold, the heroic first secretary general
09:03:06 of the United Nations.
09:03:08 Let us be in prayer together.
09:03:11 Thou who art over us, Thou who art one of us, Thou who
09:03:16 are also with us, may all see Thee in me also.
09:03:22 May I thank Thee for all that shall fall my lot.
09:03:26 May I also not forget the needs of others.
09:03:32 Keep me in Thy love as thou wouldst that all shall be
09:03:35 kept in mine.
09:03:36 May everything in this my being be directed to thy
09:03:40 glory and may I never despair for I'm under Thy hand
09:03:44 and in these all power and goodness.
09:03:48 Give me a pure heart that I may see Thee, a humble
09:03:53 heart that I may hear Thee, a heart of love that I may
09:03:58 serve Thee, a heart of faith that I may abide in Thee.
09:04:04 O Thou who art over, with, and within us, amen.
09:04:10 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
09:04:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
09:04:34 Roll call.
09:04:34 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
09:04:37 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Here.
09:04:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:04:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:04:50 >>CURTIS STOKES: Here.
09:04:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
09:04:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to approve the minutes.
09:04:55 >> Second.
09:04:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
09:05:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Before you, you have the addendum to
09:05:04 today's agenda.
09:05:05 The first item that I am asking council to take up is
09:05:11 an issue that took place at the October 14th
09:05:15 workshop session.
09:05:16 A motion was made to bring back the issues on the news
09:05:21 rack ordinance in two weeks.
09:05:22 Two weeks, actually, council, is October 28th.
09:05:25 There is no regular meeting at that time.
09:05:26 So the appearance before council should be corrected by
09:05:32 motion to read November 4th, 2010.
09:05:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
09:05:37 >> Second.
09:05:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:05:39 All in favor?
09:05:41 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Item number 55 is an ordinance
09:05:44 regarding the amendment to chapter to the city ethics
09:05:50 You have a memorandum from city attorney Chip Fletcher
09:05:52 asking that that ordinance be substituted.
09:05:55 Item number 69 is to appear and provide a verbal report
09:06:00 regarding an accident that occurred on north 34th
09:06:03 street and east Chelsea, also to advise the safety
09:06:08 You received a memorandum from city attorney Chip
09:06:11 Fletcher requesting a continuance of that matter to
09:06:13 November 4th, 2010.
09:06:16 Item number 71 is a resolution regarding FTC
09:06:25 You received a memorandum from Kimberley Crum asking
09:06:28 the agenda form be substituted and there is going to be
09:06:30 a presentation about that under staff reports.
09:06:36 There's a memorandum associated with that as well.
09:06:38 Item number 84 -- excuse me, this is an afternoon item.
09:06:46 Regarding the afternoon items, even though these items
09:06:49 cannot be taken up until 1:30, I bring to the council's
09:06:52 attention now, particularly to the public's attention,
09:06:55 just so they can be on notice if they are listening.
09:06:58 Item number 76, file V-10-316 at 305 and 307 West
09:07:08 Kennedy Boulevard, there's been a late request for a
09:07:12 continuance of that matter.
09:07:14 So the petitioner's agent will be asking for a
09:07:16 continuance to November 4th at 1:30.
09:07:19 Item number 79 actually can be taken care of at 1:30
09:07:26 but it will have to be removed because that number 79
09:07:30 is in error.
09:07:31 It is already rescheduled for November 4th at 1:30
09:07:34 so that won't be heard.
09:07:35 Finally, item number 84 in the afternoon which is an
09:07:39 appeal hearing regarding a decision of the variance
09:07:42 review board VRB for north 50th street cannot be
09:07:51 The public hearing will have to be opened and continued
09:07:54 to allow the appellant time top provide the complete
09:07:57 report record.
09:07:59 Items for highlighting, Mr. Chairman, I believe you are
09:08:01 requesting items 12 and 30 when they come up to be
09:08:05 And you have other items that you have received
09:08:08 regarding today's agenda.
09:08:11 I am not aware of any other changes, additions or
09:08:14 And I present to the you for your approval.
09:08:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
09:08:19 >> Second.
09:08:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:08:21 All in favor?
09:08:30 At this time we'll take public comment.
09:08:33 Those who wish to address council may come forward.
09:08:36 We give preference to items on the agenda first.
09:08:39 Items that are first on the agenda may come now.
09:08:48 Items on the agenda?
09:08:49 >> Good morning, City Council.
09:08:52 My name is Alan Snell, south united bicycle dealers,
09:08:59 item number 70 on your agenda.
09:09:01 I am here to urge that you move this resolution and
09:09:04 work with Hillsborough County for a countywide bicycle
09:09:06 safety action plan.
09:09:08 I think the City of Tampa needs to play a role in this
09:09:12 because the majority of accidents in Hillsborough
09:09:14 County, the City of Tampa regarding bicycle accidents.
09:09:21 The city is really good at building projects, build
09:09:24 parks, and roads, and buildings.
09:09:28 And what the city, I think, needs to improve in is
09:09:31 building attitude.
09:09:32 It's a little more difficult to put arms around it.
09:09:35 Toward that end, I'm inviting the City Council members
09:09:37 to 2001 bicycle events.
09:09:41 I'm a member of the bicycle club and you are invited to
09:09:44 come on this Saturday, 2:30 p.m., I will be leading a
09:09:48 bicycle tour of local restaurants.
09:09:50 If you know how to ride a bicycle you can do this bike
09:09:54 Just bring a helmet.
09:09:55 We would love to see you.
09:09:57 And you will see just the enthusiasm and what's going
09:09:59 on in the streets here in the city.
09:10:01 And then on November 7th is the bicycle bash
09:10:05 And that's the big annual festival to celebrate and
09:10:09 promote bicycling in the Tampa Bay area.
09:10:11 This year it's going to be on this side of the bay in
09:10:15 Hillsborough County.
09:10:16 I have had it in St. Pete and this year I am having it
09:10:19 in Hillsborough County and I'm hoping the City Council
09:10:20 members take advantage and visit.
09:10:24 We need the city to enhance attitude towards bicycling.
09:10:32 I have had a really positive discussion with Jean
09:10:36 Dorzback, the transportation director, and she seems on
09:10:38 board and is in fact working on a terrific project on
09:10:41 North Boulevard to reduce it from four to three lanes
09:10:43 and add bike lanes and add what's called sharrows on an
09:10:47 extended section of that stretch.
09:10:49 We are in favor of those kind of projects.
09:10:51 But, again, it really -- I really urge you to get
09:10:59 involved and see what bicycling is about in Tampa.
09:11:02 Our bicycle bash festival on November 7th will be
09:11:05 held against the back drop of seven bicyclists who have
09:11:08 been killed in the last two and a half months across
09:11:09 the Tampa Bay area including two here in the City of
09:11:13 We all know we can do better, so I want to work with
09:11:17 you folks toward that end.
09:11:18 I also want to thank you Councilwoman Mary Mulhern who
09:11:21 will be receiving the coveted buddy award at the
09:11:25 bicycle bash.
09:11:27 We are honoring seven people in our community that
09:11:29 stepped up, and these are not in the bicycle industry,
09:11:33 these are people who just stepped up to help bicycling
09:11:36 and I hope in the future that award will be given to
09:11:42 other City Council members.
09:11:43 Thank you very much.
09:11:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:11:48 >> Al Steenson, 4100 west LEILA Avenue, Tampa, this
09:11:55 morning representing Gandy sun bay south civic
09:11:58 I'm here to speak on item 67.
09:12:01 The association would certainly like to applaud this
09:12:05 council for keeping focus on this issue.
09:12:09 And I have not seen the report that Ms. Wise has
09:12:14 presented to you or will present.
09:12:21 And in order to get a fairer picture of what kind of
09:12:24 fund we are talking about, I would certainly recommend
09:12:27 to this council that the two-year request that you did,
09:12:32 just go back a little further, possibly to 2004, when
09:12:36 we were having the big building boom, and here we have
09:12:39 a better feel and a better handle on the kind of money
09:12:43 that came in on these transportation impact fees, where
09:12:47 it came from and where it went.
09:12:49 This issue is important to the citizens, because the
09:12:56 impact fees are ultimately paid by the buyer whether
09:12:58 it's a retail store, whether it's a house, it's all
09:13:01 being paid.
09:13:01 Now, along the same lines, if I may, in the interest of
09:13:06 fair play, there was a motion made at the second public
09:13:08 hearing regarding impact fees and with regard to the
09:13:16 In the interest of fair play, if it's the pleasure of
09:13:18 council and the maker of the original motion, the
09:13:21 association would certainly respectfully request that
09:13:24 this item be continued until after the first of the
09:13:28 year for a couple of very, very important reasons.
09:13:31 Number one, December 2nd is just a few days after
09:13:35 black Friday.
09:13:35 The store will only have been open about a month and we
09:13:39 haven't even gotten to the Christmas holiday yet so any
09:13:43 report that they will come back with I think would be
09:13:45 terribly skewed.
09:13:48 In late January or February when the shopping pattern
09:13:50 is down to its normal, I think we'll get a much better
09:13:54 picture of it.
09:13:55 And we ask the city to be fair with us and do the right
09:13:59 We just feel this is the right thing to do for the
09:14:01 administration and the total community.
09:14:04 So if you would, we would like to continue that item
09:14:09 until January or February.
09:14:10 Thank you.
09:14:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
09:14:18 >> Good morning.
09:14:19 My name is Pete Nelson.
09:14:21 I reside at 2806 west madison Avenue in Tampa.
09:14:25 I'm here to speak on agenda item number 64, which is
09:14:31 the proposed change of the purchasing threshold from
09:14:36 100,000 to 50,000.
09:14:39 I serve as the president of mothers organics, yard
09:14:44 waste recycling composting facility.
09:14:47 We have the contract with the City of Tampa to manage
09:14:50 the city's vegetated debris and yard waste.
09:14:53 We also manage the same type of contract with the city
09:14:57 of Clearwater, city of Tarpon Springs, and city of
09:15:01 Temple Terrace.
09:15:03 I had the benefit in most cases to have a similar type
09:15:07 of contract with multiple municipalities, and then also
09:15:11 we have a contract that has been put through the
09:15:17 threshold and above the current threshold of 100,000 so
09:15:20 I have seen both sides of it.
09:15:26 In our experience, which is unique -- and I also look
09:15:28 at this proposal -- to me it seems regressive in
09:15:31 When I see something that's regressive in nature then I
09:15:34 step back and say, okay, there's got to be something
09:15:37 tangible that's driving it.
09:15:39 I don't necessarily see that, but I will take it that
09:15:42 it is.
09:15:43 But from my experience, how I see this playing out is
09:15:47 two ways.
09:15:48 Number one, purchasing, with budget cuts and employee
09:15:54 cuts, is already probably taxed.
09:15:56 This is going to add a tremendous amount more work to
09:15:59 purchasing, which will then delay the bid process, lose
09:16:05 out on more opportunities.
09:16:07 Part of that is based on my opinion.
09:16:09 But way believe is truly true is there's a lot more
09:16:15 that has to go through the full purchasing process.
09:16:19 There will be absolute tangible loss N.our case we have
09:16:22 one contract that went through very quickly.
09:16:24 The city benefited.
09:16:25 We benefited.
09:16:26 The other contract took 18 months where the city lost
09:16:31 out on probably half million dollars when you include
09:16:35 lost cost savings and then consider all the staff time,
09:16:38 we would all agree that time is money.
09:16:41 So I think when we are looking at that, given that I
09:16:45 don't have all the facts that are supporting that
09:16:48 proposal, I think we need to understand or we need to
09:16:52 at least consider that the work that that will put on
09:16:57 purchasing, the rippling effect it will have on the
09:16:59 business community, and then ultimately on lost
09:17:02 opportunities, and opportunities will be a financial
09:17:08 Thank you.
09:17:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Don't leave.
09:17:12 Don't leave.
09:17:13 Your name again?
09:17:15 >> Pete Nelson.
09:17:16 >> And the company you represent?
09:17:17 >> Mothers organics.
09:17:19 >> That was a contract that had a problem with the city
09:17:22 about a year ago, am I correct?
09:17:24 >> Yes, a year ago two, years ago.
09:17:26 >> I'm just putting my computer into forward motion.
09:17:28 >> Yes.
09:17:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That contract was highly debated
09:17:33 because it wasn't going to you.
09:17:35 Am I correct?
09:17:36 >> No.
09:17:37 It was going to us.
09:17:38 >> But there was a problem there that it was held up.
09:17:41 Am I correct?
09:17:42 >> There was a protest.
09:17:43 >> All right.
09:17:44 Let me ask you this.
09:17:45 So then you are coming before this council speaking on
09:17:47 your behalf only, not on the whole city's process, just
09:17:51 one individual for one company for what you need from
09:17:54 the city.
09:17:55 Am I correct?
09:17:56 >> No.
09:17:57 That was --
09:17:58 >> The whole industry.
09:18:00 So what you are telling us is that if we were to buy
09:18:04 glass ware that the prices won't change for a year, if
09:18:07 we were to buy batteries, the prices don't change for a
09:18:11 year, if we were to buy any other commodities, see,
09:18:16 government doesn't think outside the box.
09:18:18 >> I know that.
09:18:19 >> Only think inside the box.
09:18:21 So I guarantee you, there are items that can be
09:18:23 purchased on a different venue with or without state
09:18:28 contracts if we chose to do that.
09:18:30 But we don't choose to do that.
09:18:33 >> No.
09:18:33 >> In many instances.
09:18:35 Am I correct?
09:18:36 >> I don't know.
09:18:37 >> All right.
09:18:38 Let me ask you this.
09:18:40 So you have a year contract, right?
09:18:45 >> I believe it's two-year contract.
09:18:48 >> And what kind of multiples are added to that year?
09:18:51 >> I don't believe any multiples.
09:18:53 >> Any multiples.
09:18:55 So that means every year that contract is bidded out
09:18:57 with or without the 100 grand in it.
09:19:00 >> Yes.
09:19:00 >> What difference would it make if it's 50 to be you
09:19:03 if it's bidded out every year?
09:19:07 >> The possible effect is when it's bidded out, it has
09:19:10 to go through the full process, if there's delay --
09:19:17 >> Just answer the question.
09:19:19 Yes or no?
09:19:19 >> It's not a yes or no answer.
09:19:22 >> Well, yes, it is, because if it's bidded out every
09:19:26 year, or if it's extended every year, there is a vast
09:19:29 difference, sir.
09:19:31 In other words, I'm real tight with money.
09:19:34 I'm asking you, is your contract extended every year
09:19:38 automatically or is it bidded out?
09:19:40 >> That's up to the staff.
09:19:43 A lot of contract.
09:19:44 There's the year contract and then there's multiple
09:19:47 one-year renewals given with the vendor and the city.
09:19:50 >> So even though I voted for that contract, with your
09:19:53 company, there is a possibility that there is no bid.
09:19:57 >> Yes, there's a possibility.
09:19:59 >> Thank you very much.
09:20:00 >> Do I get to respond?
09:20:02 >> No, I'm just asking a question, sir.
09:20:05 If you want to debate me, come to the office.
09:20:08 >> I can just sit here and listen to you.
09:20:14 Thank you very much.
09:20:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
09:20:16 >> My name is Carolyn Lawson and I'm president and
09:20:20 owner of Camilleian custom solutions, and I have a
09:20:24 contract with the city that's between 60 and 100.
09:20:28 Actually between 50 and 100,000.
09:20:31 So I'm here to talk about item 54 as well.
09:20:34 And what I am going to ask you to do, because I don't
09:20:38 know why the city wants to do this be, I'm going to ask
09:20:41 you to look at it from the perspective of the small
09:20:44 business like myself.
09:20:46 And the things that I thought about is that there's a
09:20:50 large commitment on the small business part to go
09:20:53 through the RFP process, and we are happy to do that.
09:20:58 Usually in order to win a contract with the city, we
09:21:01 have to be the lowest bid.
09:21:03 What that usually means for the small business is that
09:21:07 it's below our full cost, which is great.
09:21:11 It's still very valuable to us.
09:21:15 We need the work, so it's important that we get it.
09:21:18 The approval process, also there's set-up for the city
09:21:30 So when we are -- if the approval process takes a
09:21:34 longer period of time, then as a small business we are
09:21:39 having a longer period of time to wait to get the
09:21:43 business awarded after making such an investment.
09:21:46 So I would ask you to really just consider the
09:21:50 perspective of the small business when you are trying
09:21:53 to make a decision.
09:21:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, let me suggest to Mr. Miranda,
09:21:59 and council, that we just hold our questions so we can
09:22:01 get through public information and questions.
09:22:03 Let's get through public comments.
09:22:06 We have two more speakers, okay?
09:22:08 Next speaker.
09:22:09 >> good morning, Chairman Scott.
09:22:17 My name is Michael young.
09:22:18 I'm the secretary for the American transit union.
09:22:24 It came to my attention yesterday approximately noon
09:22:27 with a phone call from the "The Tampa Tribune" that
09:22:29 item 63 was on the agenda.
09:22:37 It was our understanding that this item had already
09:22:39 been addressed and resolved, so I'm in front of you a
09:22:45 little bit unprepared.
09:22:49 We have a plethora of evidence, facts, statistics that
09:22:54 are all pertinent to this proposal.
09:22:56 We would like to be able to submit them at some time.
09:22:59 We realized that all paperwork was supposed to have
09:23:03 been submitted last week.
09:23:04 Unfortunately, we were unaware of this situation until
09:23:08 noon yesterday.
09:23:17 This division actually has some very good ideas that
09:23:21 may help the task force in coming up with an amendment
09:23:23 for this proposal that would make the citizens and the
09:23:26 city very happy, beneficial, cost effective, and we
09:23:30 would like to request an extension to work on this to
09:23:33 the benefit of the citizens and the City of Tampa.
09:23:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
09:23:40 We'll take that up when we get to that item.
09:23:43 >> Good morning.
09:23:46 My name is Dick garra, the maintenance supervisor for
09:23:56 fire rescue.
09:23:57 Also I was just made aware of this yesterday afternoon.
09:23:59 I did get some documentation.
09:24:00 I don't know if you want to see it today or not.
09:24:02 To be succinct, this is only about, not to throw away
09:24:09 the proverbial baby with the bath water, we don't have
09:24:15 an exact opposition against the COPS, but what we want
09:24:20 to do is we have been working for about 20 years to get
09:24:24 the proper team member to work on our parts.
09:24:29 Now that we have them, we have had them for about four
09:24:31 years, and he has saved Tampa Fire Rescue and the City
09:24:35 of Tampa a lot of money since he has been with us.
09:24:40 And even though it may sound that we are just trying to
09:24:42 save an individual, we are trying to save a team, which
09:24:45 is Tampa Fire Rescue's maintenance shop.
09:24:48 So we would like to propose an addendum that Tampa Fire
09:24:53 Rescue's maintenance shops maintain a specialized parts
09:24:58 manager, a controller.
09:25:02 I have the document here, the documents for each one of
09:25:05 you, if you would like to have it now, so that you can
09:25:08 study it and you can see that we have some backing that
09:25:12 we went from, if anybody remembers about 14, 16 years
09:25:17 ago, we made "St. Pete Times" the maintenance shop was
09:25:21 really in big disarray.
09:25:25 It has turned around to where we are getting nothing
09:25:27 but kudos and accolades from Tampa Fire Rescue as to
09:25:33 how we have progressed and we are now serving not only
09:25:35 them but of course our taxpayers by doing a good job
09:25:38 for them.
09:25:40 Again, I would like to ask that we just make an
09:25:46 addendum or some kind of change that Tampa Fire
09:25:49 Rescue's maintenance shop is not affected by this COPS.
09:25:55 Thank you very much.
09:25:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Just for clarification to you and to
09:25:58 the prior speaker one, council does not have the
09:26:02 authority to change administration, is my
09:26:05 understanding, on the charter, we only vote it up or
09:26:08 We can make suggestions or recommendations to them but
09:26:10 only vote it up or down.
09:26:12 That's number one.
09:26:13 Number two, we welcome any documentation you have to
09:26:17 help substantiate our vote.
09:26:20 So if you have some, I suggest you give it to the clerk
09:26:23 or give to the Mr. Shelby so we can be made aware of
09:26:27 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Sir, you are in charge of the
09:26:29 maintenance for the fire department?
09:26:31 >>> Yes, sir.
09:26:32 >> Were you ever consulted on this proposal that's
09:26:34 before us today?
09:26:36 >>> The last time we were talking about this was about
09:26:39 six months ago, and somehow or another it got shut down
09:26:46 for a little while and evidently was reintroduced.
09:26:49 It is my understanding of it, I was never made aware of
09:26:53 I was made aware of it about 2:30 yesterday afternoon.
09:26:56 >> So you knew about this six months ago but you
09:26:59 thought it died?
09:27:00 >>> Correct.
09:27:01 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Okay, thank you.
09:27:02 >>> Thank you very much.
09:27:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Ms. Mulhern?
09:27:08 >>MARY MULHERN: I was just going to say considering
09:27:11 they hadn't heard about it, I would really consider
09:27:13 when we get to that item continuing it so that you
09:27:15 could --
09:27:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We'll take it up at that time.
09:27:21 I don't think we need to because --
09:27:24 >>MARY MULHERN: I am not going to move to continue it.
09:27:25 I just want you to know I am going to bring that up for
09:27:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, we can talk about it during
09:27:31 I think a number have questions about it.
09:27:35 So just understand -- that's okay.
09:27:42 Next speaker.
09:27:42 >> I'm here to address item 64.
09:27:46 The lowering of the purchasing threshold.
09:27:50 My name is Ed Kinley. I live on Barcelona street. Our
09:27:55 company is Jack Mar, Inc.
09:27:56 We have a contract with the city for the transportation
09:27:58 and disposal of the materials that are generated at the
09:28:02 Howard Curren plant that can't be processed.
09:28:06 It's a sandy grit is what it's called.
09:28:08 We transport that to a landfill and dispose of it.
09:28:13 We are also in the business of pelletized sludge,
09:28:19 marketing and providing other environmental services.
09:28:21 So this is a small contract for us.
09:28:25 It's generally valued between 50 and $100,000.
09:28:30 It depends on the quantity of materials that the Howard
09:28:36 Curren plant wishes to dispose of, generally between 20
09:28:40 and 25 tons of this material annually, and that would
09:28:43 represent about $100,000 threshold.
09:28:45 So we are moving that material and taking it off-site.
09:28:51 For us personally some issues beyond the cost
09:28:54 associated with the duplicity of more paperwork for the
09:28:59 purchasing staff.
09:29:00 And I think that's kind of the heart of the matter, and
09:29:02 the more burden to them and costs associated with it.
09:29:09 Personally, there are some issues that I see.
09:29:13 Basically you are reducing the volume of material that
09:29:15 we would remove by half.
09:29:17 So that's going to require, if we were successful to
09:29:21 win a second $50,000 contract, it's going to require us
09:29:24 to mobilize again in the cost associated with that
09:29:28 mobilization is going to increase.
09:29:30 Secondly, I notice that several times other
09:29:35 departments, agencies, would like to use our per ton
09:29:40 rate for the removal of these materials.
09:29:42 They can also piggyback on that contract.
09:29:44 So those departments, those agencies, it's going to be
09:29:48 a narrow window that they'll have to move and to accept
09:29:53 that pricing for us for a left-handed widget or
09:29:58 whatever they may be purchasing.
09:30:04 We only have half the time to tap the money to get
09:30:06 inside that window to take advantage of a competitively
09:30:09 bid price.
09:30:11 The purchasing department has gone to great lengths to
09:30:14 solicit bids and get the most competitive price.
09:30:17 There's quite a bit of paperwork associated just with
09:30:19 us submitting a bid, an annual bid, and if you are
09:30:24 going to do this, it's going to increase the volume of
09:30:28 paperwork that we have and the volume of paperwork that
09:30:30 the purchasing department is going to have, and in
09:30:33 addition it's going to limit that time that other
09:30:36 agencies can take advantage of our pricing.
09:30:39 So I would encourage you to think beyond just the cost
09:30:44 associated with the purchasing burden, and some of
09:30:47 those logistical issues associated with lowering this
09:30:52 Thank you.
09:30:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:30:54 Anyone else at this time?
09:30:58 That concludes our public comment then.
09:31:00 Councilman Miranda.
09:31:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I just want to make a blanket
09:31:04 I've heard from three vendors, by all the volume of
09:31:08 documents of paperwork that is going to control and be
09:31:12 excessive use.
09:31:15 We got computers.
09:31:16 Everybody is talking about the volumes of paper.
09:31:19 I would understand that 15, 20 years ago.
09:31:22 But the truth of the matter is there would be no
09:31:27 disruption and no service if the purchasing department
09:31:30 was to send you a 90-day thing after your first six
09:31:35 months and tell you give me the quote for the next six
09:31:41 What is so difficult about thinking outside the box?
09:31:46 That guarantees you and the city about prices.
09:31:52 The price may be lower than it was before, or your
09:31:55 price may be higher based on the economic situations
09:31:58 that you're in.
09:31:59 So what I'm saying is, I'm trying to be as fair as I
09:32:02 can so that both the taxpayers and the recipient of
09:32:07 these contracts are both protected.
09:32:10 I don't know if they are or not under a yearly
09:32:15 contract, if you have an extension, and you have this
09:32:17 and you have the other.
09:32:18 Way want to do is not put this any more in a burdensome
09:32:23 situation but simplify it so that you get noticed, and
09:32:28 later on you are going to see what I am talking about
09:32:30 where an ad was placed, and in a great newspaper with
09:32:36 very small circulation for an over $8 million job.
09:32:41 So what I'm saying is, I'm not against you.
09:32:45 I'm here to prove a fact that we can do something
09:32:48 outside the normal routine of this government and any
09:32:51 other government.
09:32:53 It's time that we look forward, not look backwards.
09:32:56 Thank you.
09:32:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:32:59 At this time we will take up committee reports.
09:33:09 >> Alan Snell, is he here still?
09:33:13 Alan, this pertains to bicycles and I just want to let
09:33:16 you know that last week I mentioned that down in
09:33:22 district 1, which is the SoHo area, police officers
09:33:26 were actually the residents were asking the police
09:33:29 officers if they could be on bicycles, if the fund
09:33:35 weren't there, and I mentioned the businesses got
09:33:38 together and contributed $3,000 which is going to
09:33:40 purchase two bicycles.
09:33:41 And I didn't have all the names of the businesses.
09:33:45 I didn't mention any of them.
09:33:46 I want to let you know that it was the Tony, the lime,
09:33:51 the lodge, and -- there you go.
09:33:55 Bicycles for our officers in the district one.
09:33:58 >> Yes, that's fantastic to hear.
09:34:01 Your chief of police Jane Castor is a big bicyclist and
09:34:04 she's aware of the issue, and, you know, it's fantastic
09:34:09 that we will be working with police.
09:34:11 It's extremely gratifying to hear.
09:34:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
09:34:14 We'll move to our committee reports.
09:34:16 Public Safety Committee, Councilwoman Miller.
09:34:19 >>GWEN MILLER: I move resolutions 1 through 10.
09:34:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
09:34:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
09:34:27 Parks and recreation.
09:34:29 Councilman Stokes.
09:34:31 >>CURTIS STOKES: I would like to move items 11, 13, sh,
09:34:38 15, pulling item 12.
09:34:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Pulling item 12 for highlighting.
09:34:43 Is there a second?
09:34:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'll second it.
09:34:45 But don't forget 13 had something electronic.
09:34:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:34:57 All in favor?
09:35:01 Public Works Committee, councilman Miranda.
09:35:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move items 20 through 22.
09:35:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:35:13 All in favor?
09:35:15 Finance Committee, Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:35:18 >>MARY MULHERN: I move items 23 through 28.
09:35:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
09:35:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
09:35:26 All in favor?
09:35:29 Building and zoning.
09:35:30 Councilman Caetano.
09:35:32 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: 29 through 51.
09:35:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We are pulling item 30 for highlight.
09:35:41 Is there a second?
09:35:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
09:35:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
09:35:52 Transportation committee, Councilwoman Capin.
09:35:56 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I move items 52 to 53.
09:36:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
09:36:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
09:36:08 Items for public hearing?
09:36:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 54.
09:36:13 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
09:36:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
09:36:18 Let me go back now and highlight two items, council.
09:36:22 Item 12.
09:36:23 On item 12, in our backup, we shared a success story
09:36:37 for the city and for council.
09:36:38 That is the museum, Kiley gardens, the whole waterfront
09:36:43 park and all that, was done by Skanska.
09:36:47 If you go back and look at that, the total amount of
09:36:51 those projects came in at 43, right at 43.1.
09:36:57 Of that, WMBE participation was almost 18%.
09:37:03 I think that deserves highlighting.
09:37:05 It is that kind of cooperation and involved
09:37:11 participation that I think goes well for the city, for
09:37:17 the administration and for council.
09:37:18 This goes back to our involvement with the small
09:37:23 business and WMBE ordinance, and this is the kind of
09:37:28 thing you want to see when you have this these large
09:37:32 contracts that minorities and women are benefiting from
09:37:36 these kind of contracts from the city.
09:37:38 So that is, I believe, a success story for Skanska, who
09:37:43 kept their word, and for the city and for this council
09:37:46 has done a great job on monitoring these kind of
09:37:49 I wanted to highlight that and call that to your
09:37:52 attention and to the public's attention for us.
09:37:57 And item 30.
09:37:58 Item 30 is where the real estate division, I guess, we
09:38:06 are giving over -- deeding over to Hillsborough County
09:38:11 the additional property that all around the Robert
09:38:17 Saunders library.
09:38:19 That library will be demolished and construction take
09:38:21 place April 20, and the cost of that project is 7.8
09:38:32 million so it's good to see the city participation in
09:38:35 Council participation with the reconstruction of the
09:38:43 Robert Saunders library.
09:38:44 It's going to be a major piece along the central part
09:38:47 area, the Hillsborough Avenue area, and great
09:38:53 contribution to the core and to the city.
09:38:55 So I want to highlight those.
09:38:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Are they rebuilding the Robert
09:38:59 Saunders, or are they going to move it?
09:39:05 >> It's going to be there.
09:39:06 That's why we are deeding them the property.
09:39:09 They will have more space.
09:39:13 Build a new building, new structure altogether.
09:39:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I apologize to the chairmans of
09:39:20 those committees.
09:39:21 I move item 12 and 30.
09:39:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:39:24 Moved and seconded.
09:39:25 All in favor?
09:39:28 Thank you.
09:39:30 We will move now to the 9:30:67 items.
09:39:45 Second readings.
09:39:55 Item 55.
09:39:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to open items 55 and 36 -- 55,
09:40:09 36, 57, still at 9:30, and 58 through 60 which are also
09:40:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:40:17 All in favor?
09:40:20 Item 55, Mr. Fletcher?
09:40:24 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: City attorney.
09:40:25 This is the nonprofit ordinance that was before you all
09:40:29 I ask it be continued because we have received a number
09:40:31 of informational calls both within the city, outside
09:40:35 the city.
09:40:37 No objections per se.
09:40:38 I did make two changes that were very minor.
09:40:43 That's why you submitted a substitute ordinance and I
09:40:46 will just highlight this for you.
09:40:47 On page 2, some of the excluded items included
09:40:52 sponsorship defined in city code to include city staff
09:40:56 in support.
09:40:58 And to say including city services so it's clear to the
09:41:02 reader of this ordinance what that includes.
09:41:04 And then on the attached form that's available to the
09:41:08 nonprofits for their reporting, we added a space on the
09:41:11 top of the first page indicating the fiscal year for
09:41:14 which they reported.
09:41:16 That was not also on the form and those are two minor
09:41:20 housekeeping items that we recommend.
09:41:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I just want to say that I appreciate
09:41:25 you have done.
09:41:26 But just for the public sense, just quickly highlight
09:41:28 the two or three major things about the accountability
09:41:31 and the recording things that they have to provide to
09:41:34 the city for the public's sense.
09:41:36 >> It includes a number of items that really address
09:41:41 making sure there are no -- there are not any conflicts
09:41:47 of interest.
09:41:48 For instance, they have to keep minutes of their
09:41:50 They have to have a conflict of interest policy, board
09:41:58 policy, anti-nepotism policy, and they need to report
09:42:03 to the city at the end of their fiscal year that they
09:42:05 have had those in place for their fiscal year and they
09:42:07 are complying with those standards.
09:42:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda.
09:42:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:42:17 Move an ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida
09:42:18 amending city of chapter --
09:42:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It's a public hearing.
09:42:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public wishing to
09:42:28 speak, please?
09:42:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I see no one.
09:42:31 Move to close.
09:42:31 >> Second.
09:42:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
09:42:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move an ordinance of the City of
09:42:34 Tampa second reading city of Tampa, Florida, City of
09:42:38 Tampa, code chapter 2, article 8, City of Tampa ethics
09:42:43 code division 2 be subdivision 5 by adding section
09:42:46 2-525 standard of conduct and accountability
09:42:50 requirements for nonprofits provided financial support
09:42:52 by the city providing for severability, repealing
09:42:54 conflicts, providing an effective date.
09:42:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:42:59 Record your vote, please.
09:43:07 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
09:43:08 And that was a substitute motion, an ordinance.
09:43:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: A substitute, yes, ma'am.
09:43:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 56.
09:43:14 Item 56.
09:43:18 Anyone from the public wish to a degrees council on
09:43:20 item 56?
09:43:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
09:43:22 >> Second.
09:43:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:43:26 All in favor?
09:43:27 Councilman Stokes, do you want to read that ordinance?
09:43:33 >> An ordinance presented for second reading, City of
09:43:35 Tampa, repealing Tampa code section 14-27 relating to
09:43:40 the impoundment of motor vehicles used to facilitate
09:43:43 prostitution and drug related crimes and providing an
09:43:46 effective date.
09:43:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Capin.
09:43:50 All in favor record your vote.
09:43:51 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
09:44:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Items 57 through 60 require the
09:44:05 witnesses to be sworn.
09:44:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: At this time if you are going to be
09:44:07 addressing council please stand to be sworn.
09:44:09 If you are going to be speaking to council, you think
09:44:13 you are going to speak, not sure you are going to
09:44:16 speak, stand anyway and be sworn.
09:44:18 (Oath administered by Clerk).
09:44:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I ask that all written communications
09:44:30 relative to today's hearings that have been held for
09:44:32 public inspection at City Council's office --
09:44:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
09:44:36 >> Second.
09:44:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And if you do speak, please be sure
09:44:41 you signed the sign-up sheet out side the City Council
09:44:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That was seconded by Councilwoman
09:44:50 Anyone from the public.
09:44:52 Petitioner, do you want to come forward?
09:44:58 >> Towanda Anthony, land development.
09:45:01 Item 57 requires certified site plans.
09:45:04 Site plans have been certified and provided to the
09:45:06 Copies are available for council.
09:45:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: State your name for the record again
09:45:12 >> Towanda Anthony, land development.
09:45:15 >> Wes teen, I have been sworn.
09:45:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Does anyone from the public wish to
09:45:24 address council?
09:45:26 >> Moved and seconded by councilman Caetano.
09:45:29 All in favor?
09:45:32 Councilman Stokes?
09:45:45 >>CURTIS STOKES: An ordinance presented for second
09:45:47 reading and adoption, ordinance rezoning property in
09:45:48 the general vicinity of 3328 South Dale Mabry Highway
09:45:52 in the city of Tampa, Florida and more particularly
09:45:53 described in section 1 from zoning district
09:45:55 classifications CG commercial general to PD planned
09:45:58 development, commercial telecommunications tower,
09:46:02 providing an effective date.
09:46:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?
09:46:07 Seconded by councilman Caetano.
09:46:10 Record your vote.
09:46:10 >> Motion carried with Capin, Mulhern and Scott voting
09:46:29 >> Thank you.
09:46:34 Item 58.
09:46:35 Item 58.
09:46:36 Anyone from the public wish to address council on item
09:46:43 9/11 move to close.
09:46:44 >> Second.
09:46:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
09:46:48 Councilwoman Mulhern, do you want to read it?
09:46:54 >> I move an ordinance being presented for second
09:46:56 reading and adoption, an ordinance of the city of
09:46:58 Tampa, Florida creating the multiple properties
09:47:02 designation to include properties located at 4505 and
09:47:05 4510 west Beach Way Drive and 4508 west Rosemere road,
09:47:11 4506 Sylvan ramble, 4521 west Azeele street, 704 South
09:47:17 Westshore Boulevard, 407 and 414 royal palm way, Tampa,
09:47:22 Florida as more particularly described in section 3
09:47:25 hereof as a local landmark providing for repeal of all
09:47:28 ordinances in conflict, providing for severability,
09:47:31 providing an effective date.
09:47:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
09:47:34 Record your vote.
09:47:35 >> Motion carried unanimously.
09:47:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 59.
09:47:47 Anyone from the public wish to address counsel on item
09:47:51 Anyone from the public?
09:47:52 Motion to close.
09:47:52 >> So moved to have close.
09:47:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
09:48:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move an ordinance presented for
09:48:03 second reading, an ordinance of the City of Tampa
09:48:06 designating the Roy Jenkins swimming pool, located at
09:48:08 154 Columbia drive, Tampa, Florida, more particularly
09:48:12 described in section 3 hereof, as a local landmark
09:48:14 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict
09:48:16 providing for severability, providing an effective
09:48:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Capin.
09:48:20 Record your vote.
09:48:21 >>GWEN MILLER: There's something wrong with it.
09:48:37 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Yes.
09:48:47 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes.
09:48:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
09:48:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
09:48:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes.
09:48:53 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
09:48:58 >>CURTIS STOKES: Yes.
09:48:59 >> Motion carried unanimously.
09:49:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 60.
09:49:02 Anyone from the public wish to address council on item
09:49:05 No one from the public.
09:49:16 Item 60.
09:49:16 >>GWEN MILLER: I move to adopt the following ordinance
09:49:17 on second reading. An ordinance of the city of Tampa,
09:49:17 Florida, amending Tampa comprehensive plan definition
09:49:22 section by adding definition as more particularly
09:49:25 described in section 2 below, amendment to Tampa
09:49:30 comprehensive plan chapter 3, objective 19.7 and
09:49:33 associated policies as more particularly described in
09:49:35 section 3 below providing for severability, providing
09:49:38 an effective date.
09:49:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:49:42 Record your vote.
09:49:43 >>GWEN MILLER: It still won't work.
09:49:52 >> Motion carried unanimously.
09:49:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Need to move the resolution.
09:49:57 >> Move the resolution.
09:49:58 >> Second.
09:49:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:50:00 All in favor?
09:50:05 We are ahead of schedule, council.
09:50:07 But we can take up some items.
09:50:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Looking at the items that don't
09:50:16 necessarily require council to take any action
09:50:19 specifically to a resolution on ordinance I look as 66,
09:50:22 67 or 68 can be taken up.
09:50:25 >> Item 68 relate to have the legal department and
09:50:39 after a motion of council to prepare and discuss
09:50:41 recommendations relating to your noticed proceeds for
09:50:45 quasi-judicial hearing, the rezoning special use
09:50:48 permit, et cetera.
09:50:49 I have submitted to City Council on workshop agenda, I
09:50:52 submitted a memorandum to City Council where I outline
09:50:54 what our recommendations are as well as the code
09:50:59 language which we are suggesting.
09:51:01 I can go through this or I can just answer questions,
09:51:04 whatever the pleasure of council is.
09:51:05 But just generally, the things that we are addressing,
09:51:17 the notice of people --
09:51:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This is designed to cure the problem
09:51:21 we had on Channelside pretty much.
09:51:24 I know we had a lot that didn't get notice in the
09:51:29 So this will cure that problem?
09:51:32 >>JULIA COLE: First of all, one of the problems we had
09:51:35 in our code is we didn't have a good definition of what
09:51:38 "the list" was.
09:51:39 This defines what the list is and where comes from.
09:51:42 In fact when I surveyed other jurisdictions they are
09:51:45 more specific on what the list is.
09:51:46 So we have gone ahead and taken that into consideration
09:51:49 with these code provisions.
09:51:50 The second part of this, some of our other issues on
09:52:04 occasion relate to our good neighbor notice process,
09:52:07 the way our good neighbor -- there's a lot of business
09:52:18 associations, other associations of general interest
09:52:20 which are considered part of our registered
09:52:25 neighborhoods organizations.
09:52:26 So this would provide an opportunity and provide a
09:52:29 situation where we could create just a general list and
09:52:33 in fact I took this language from the county of how
09:52:35 they handle it.
09:52:36 They have more generalized list.
09:52:38 And then you can register to receive notice.
09:52:47 It provides an opportunity for other organizations to
09:52:49 register, to receive notice within certain areas of the
09:53:02 This really would be something that an organization can
09:53:04 go online, and the good neighbor notice is sent today
09:53:14 to the officially registered neighborhood association,
09:53:17 but I wanted to make clear for the record it doesn't
09:53:18 change what the officially registered neighborhood
09:53:20 association would be in addition to them.
09:53:23 We also put in some more specific parameters for if we
09:53:39 hear through the grapevine a sign has been taken down,
09:53:42 it allows us to notify that property owner and make
09:53:44 sure they put it back up.
09:53:46 We also better define what it means in our code if you
09:53:49 don't have notice perfected before the hearing, and if
09:53:53 you don't have notice perfected after the hearing.
09:54:00 If no notice is perfected, we always say go ahead and
09:54:03 continue it to perfect notice.
09:54:05 This actually codifies that practice so you are
09:54:08 consistent with every single property.
09:54:09 It provides an opportunity that we have done that if
09:54:14 they are able to show that they can perfect notice
09:54:16 through an affidavit, we would go ahead and have
09:54:19 allowed that opportunity to occur just codifying that
09:54:22 making sure we are clear and consistent.
09:54:25 Finally, what is not in here but the intent of this is
09:54:28 to consolidate all of our notice proceeds for all of
09:54:30 our quasi-judicial proceedings.
09:54:33 You do hear a lot of quasi-judicial proceedings, that
09:54:38 come before City Council but there's a number of boards
09:54:40 and City Councils that have quasi-judicial proceedings,
09:54:43 and all of the notice requirements are different an it
09:54:45 becomes a little confusing and a little difficult to
09:54:48 figure out which process you are in.
09:54:49 So part of this exercise since we were going ahead and
09:54:52 revamping our notice requirements is to go ahead and
09:54:54 follow all the notice requirements into one section,
09:54:57 and so it will take us some time to pull those sections
09:55:00 but I think it's very important, and you know I have
09:55:02 been on a mission to try to consolidate our practices,
09:55:05 but this is just another opportunity that we are going
09:55:07 to go ahead and take to consolidate those processes.
09:55:11 That's really in a nutshell, as I said, I provided you
09:55:15 a memo with all the bullet points with the language,
09:55:18 because this is a procedural change, it does not
09:55:20 require review by Planning Commission.
09:55:24 It's simply revamping procedures and going ahead and
09:55:26 consolidating procedures.
09:55:28 So it is required to go through a Planning Commission
09:55:31 It isn't required to go through our twice a year
09:55:33 chapter 27 process Ba because we can make procedural
09:55:37 So I leave it to the pleasure of council whether or not
09:55:39 they want to direct the legal department to go ahead
09:55:41 and put this in ordinance form and move this forward to
09:55:44 come to City Council.
09:55:45 I do want to just state for the purposes of the record
09:55:48 that a piece of this that relates to this registry, we
09:55:52 are still working with the IP to get that up and
09:55:57 Even if we adopt this tomorrow.
09:55:58 Based they still need time to change their process and
09:56:02 their system to allow this registry to occur.
09:56:04 So I would encourage that we go ahead and we can get
09:56:07 this on the books so we may have an effective date
09:56:10 that's a little further out just for purposes of
09:56:12 assuring that we have the technology in place to allow
09:56:14 this registry to occur.
09:56:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Questions by council on this?
09:56:19 How much.
09:56:21 For moving expeditiously on this.
09:56:22 >>MARY MULHERN: I did have one question.
09:56:25 The first point before you talked about the online
09:56:38 registry, what are we doing to cure the problem with
09:56:40 the condo association as opposed to --
09:56:45 >> That's what we are doing.
09:56:46 We are allowing the condo -- there's a variety of
09:56:51 different types of organizations.
09:56:52 These condo associations that are within an area that
09:56:56 they have in our neighborhood a association, you have
09:56:58 business associations that are in a greater
09:57:00 neighborhood association area, and this would cure that
09:57:02 problem because it would allow a condo association to
09:57:04 be say, now what?
09:57:05 We would like separate notice in this area, and we want
09:57:08 to be able to register for that notice.
09:57:10 And that would make sure that those types of
09:57:13 organizations have that opportunity that they really
09:57:16 don't have today.
09:57:17 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to point out that there's
09:57:21 not really anything that complicated about registering.
09:57:23 I mean, seems like they could call up or mail their
09:57:29 information -- e-mail their information.
09:57:30 I don't see a lot of complication or staff time in
09:57:39 Getting the online registration to work, I would hope
09:57:42 that wouldn't be a problem.
09:57:43 I can see where it would be, but they should be able to
09:57:48 call in.
09:57:51 Nothing complex about it.
09:57:53 >>JULIA COLE: In order to ensure that it's in a system
09:57:56 that everybody has access to.
09:57:58 Because remember once you make this a requirement if
09:58:00 you mess it up somewhere down the line, if a staff
09:58:03 person takes in information and doesn't get all the
09:58:06 right people, you now have a notice failure.
09:58:08 What we would like to is have a very uniform unified
09:58:13 process in place.
09:58:14 So that way we know -- that's kind of what we have
09:58:16 already done with the officially registered
09:58:19 neighborhood association.
09:58:20 I'm not suggesting it's going to take a super long
09:58:23 What I am saying is what we'll need to do is make sure
09:58:26 that those are available in order to make that portion
09:58:28 of it effective, because again, once you put this in
09:58:32 our code, if it doesn't get disseminated correctly then
09:58:38 we have notice problems.
09:58:39 It doesn't seem like it should be that complicated and
09:58:41 I don't think it will be that complicated.
09:58:43 I just want to make sure we have our ducks in a row
09:58:46 before we implement.
09:58:47 >>GWEN MILLER: All right.
09:58:48 Motion, please.
09:58:50 We need a motion.
09:58:59 Two weeks?
09:59:00 >> I am going to ask for a little longer if you don't
09:59:02 mind because I am going to have other codes, 30 days
09:59:06 would be fine.
09:59:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That would be a meeting on November
09:59:11 The next regular meeting is December 2nd.
09:59:14 November 18th --
09:59:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: December 2nd?
09:59:17 That's fine.
09:59:17 So the motion would be December 2nd.
09:59:19 Second to the motion?
09:59:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
09:59:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:59:23 All in favor?
09:59:27 We have a couple of minute before ten, whatever item we
09:59:31 can take real quick.
09:59:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I don't know if anybody wants to take
09:59:35 up 66.
09:59:36 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Administrator for public works,
09:59:46 utility services.
09:59:47 Item 66 has to do with the number of handicapped
09:59:51 parking spaces that we have downtown.
09:59:55 And we submitted a memo to council.
09:59:57 We do meet the requirements oh on all street parking.
10:00:01 We meet the requirements in all of our garage parking.
10:00:03 We meet it in most of the surface lots.
10:00:07 There's a couple of surface lots that we mentioned in
10:00:10 One of them is the Hart lot which is being sold under
10:00:14 We have a lot across the street we are going to be
10:00:16 restriping soon so we have a couple of surface lots
10:00:18 that we still need to work on.
10:00:20 But other than that we are in compliance with the
10:00:22 requirements of ADA.
10:00:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I guess the question is, also, I
10:00:32 attended one of these ADA meetings and the concern is
10:00:35 when a lot of people are coming downtown they are not
10:00:37 finding, I guess, enough parking spaces.
10:00:39 I want to verify, one, that we did have enough.
10:00:42 Secondly, around the courthouse, around county center,
10:00:47 have you all taken a look at that in terms of the
10:00:54 Certain areas downtown, people have a tendency to visit
10:00:56 more and especially those who fall understood the ADA
10:00:59 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: We will be glad to look there
10:01:03 However, for on street parking people with a
10:01:05 handicapped placard can park there at no cost for a
10:01:09 four-hour period.
10:01:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: But they don't know it because that
10:01:12 came up.
10:01:12 They really don't.
10:01:13 So we may need to communicate that.
10:01:17 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: People take advantage of that every
10:01:19 day downtown.
10:01:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I was at a meeting where all these
10:01:22 people were saying it was an issue.
10:01:24 So I think we need to find a way to communicate that so
10:01:27 they will be aware of that.
10:01:28 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Can you pass to us that group?
10:01:30 We will be glad to contact them.
10:01:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We'll do that.
10:01:34 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: I can address 67 while I'm here.
10:01:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:01:39 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: This is a question about the impact
10:01:44 And Bonnie Wise submitted a memo to council answering
10:01:50 the questions about what amount of moneys were
10:01:54 collected by district.
10:01:58 And what amount of moneys were spent by district.
10:02:00 And was revenue in each zone spent in the immediate
10:02:04 Again, I maybe didn't do a good job of explaining this
10:02:09 the last time I was up here on this, but the district
10:02:12 is the smallest geographical boundary that we keep
10:02:15 track of for transportation impact fees.
10:02:18 We don't go smaller than that.
10:02:20 We don't look by block or by portions within the
10:02:26 So we limit it by district.
10:02:28 All those moneys must be spent, spent within the
10:02:31 district and are collected just within the district.
10:02:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That was the issue raised by
10:02:42 councilman Caetano.
10:02:43 I guess he was asking for a more thorough report.
10:02:46 I know at the budget hearing you did talk about that at
10:02:49 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Got a report by Bonnie Wise.
10:02:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I know we did.
10:02:54 Any other questions on that?
10:03:04 >>MARY MULHERN: I wanted to ask as Mr. Steenson asked
10:03:06 if we could get this same report, and thanks for
10:03:08 providing that, starting in 2004.
10:03:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, the report he was asking for is,
10:03:16 made a motion that you take a look at the WalMart and
10:03:19 the traffic so we can come back and adjust if we need
10:03:24 I thought we asked for a report back the first of the
10:03:26 year but he's saying --
10:03:29 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: I think we had cleared for a short
10:03:32 period of time after the WalMart opened and I think he
10:03:35 was requesting that it be a longer time.
10:03:37 We are good with that.
10:03:38 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay, that's fine.
10:03:40 But that's not way was asking for.
10:03:42 He was asking that you go back to 2004, because that's
10:03:45 when the impact fees were -- he did ask for that.
10:03:54 >> Come forward to clarify that, please.
10:03:56 >>MARY MULHERN: I thought I heard him say that.
10:04:03 >> I believe what I was asking for is the report that
10:04:05 they presented to you by Bonnie Wise was 2008 --
10:04:11 I'm here to suggest maybe to get a better picture that
10:04:15 they do the impact fees collected and spent by zones
10:04:17 back in 2004.
10:04:21 >>MARY MULHERN: That's what I'm asking for.
10:04:23 >> Instead of two years, it's like six.
10:04:29 >>MARY MULHERN: That's what I'm talking about.
10:04:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What were you asking us to continue
10:04:34 until January and February?
10:04:37 >> Oh, that was the motion made at the second public
10:04:39 hearing regarding a report by December 2nd on any
10:04:44 irregularities regarding the WalMart.
10:04:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:04:49 >> Sorry for the confusion.
10:04:51 >>MARY MULHERN: I wasn't confused.
10:04:53 So if you could -- that's going to take some time, but
10:04:57 maybe you could bring back at the same time.
10:05:01 I'll make a motion to bring the report on WalMart, to
10:05:07 continue that later than December 1st to February.
10:05:10 Is that what you said?
10:05:12 >> February.
10:05:15 >>MARY MULHERN: So if you bring those back in February
10:05:19 we can make that one motion.
10:05:20 The impact fee, breakdown from 2004 to 2006 or '7.
10:05:29 And then the report on the traffic impacts.
10:05:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?
10:05:37 Moved and seconded -- seconded by Councilwoman Capin.
10:05:44 All in favor?
10:05:46 Opposes he's?
10:05:47 Thank you very much.
10:05:47 Thank you, sir.
10:05:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Although this is great when you look
10:05:53 at it in today's standards, what happened down the
10:05:55 road, 10, 15 years from now, if this set location needs
10:06:02 some additional services by the city, and there's
10:06:06 another building going down at the other end of Gandy
10:06:09 either way, or into close proximity, and you can't use
10:06:12 that money for this that needs it, that's the problem.
10:06:19 It works in the immediate confine of time.
10:06:21 But when you stretch out time, things change, buildings
10:06:24 decay, things become not so humanistically correct, and
10:06:30 then we are hampered by the amount of moneys you can
10:06:32 spend in another location, for the location that's new
10:06:37 that you would have the money to satisfy the needs of
10:06:39 that location.
10:06:40 That's my only concern.
10:06:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
10:06:45 We'll take up our 10:00 items.
10:06:48 Item 61 is a we need to open the public hearings.
10:06:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
10:06:58 >> Second.
10:06:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
10:07:00 All in favor?
10:07:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, I don't believe the
10:07:05 witnesses -- were sworn in for 61, or were they?
10:07:12 >>> I was sworn in at the previous swearing.
10:07:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Okay, sorry.
10:07:17 >>> Dennis Fernandez, historic preservation design
10:07:20 manager here on item 61 which is a property tax
10:07:24 exemption application for 407 south royal palm way
10:07:28 owned by Michael and Giselle ward.
10:07:43 The owners went through measures to restore the
10:07:46 appearance of the structure and to remove inappropriate
10:07:50 additions including a swimming pool which someone had
10:07:55 previously added to the front yard of the structure.
10:07:57 That was relocated to a more appropriate place in the
10:07:59 This application is consistent with the Secretary of
10:08:01 Interior standards rehabilitation.
10:08:05 In reviewing the project it doesn't meet the criteria
10:08:07 established by the department of state and exceeds the
10:08:10 spending threshold for the program.
10:08:13 It is our recommendation that the project is consistent
10:08:14 with the City of Tampa's historic property tax
10:08:18 exemption ordinance as submitted.
10:08:20 If you have any questions, I will be happy to answer.
10:08:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions from council?
10:08:25 Anyone from the public wish to address council?
10:08:27 Anyone from the public?
10:08:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
10:08:31 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Second.
10:08:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
10:08:33 >>THE CLERK: Mr. Chairman, on this particular item I
10:08:37 have not received the ordinance for this.
10:08:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Legal?
10:08:42 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
10:08:50 If we can continue this item we can have an ordinance
10:08:52 for you later today.
10:08:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move it to the 1:30 agenda.
10:08:56 Would that that be fine?
10:08:58 >>REBECCA KERT: I would appreciate that.
10:09:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move top item 61.
10:09:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: To bring back the ordinance to be
10:09:07 All in favor?
10:09:10 Item 62.
10:09:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Move the resolution.
10:09:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
10:09:21 >>CINDY MILLER: Director of growth management
10:09:23 development services.
10:09:24 This is a resolution to approve Alessa agreement, a
10:09:28 license agreement between the city of and ClearWireless
10:09:31 for telecommunications equipment on top of the Centro
10:09:36 Ybor garage, and this is equipment, not a cell tower.
10:09:39 It will look very similar to existing equipment that is
10:09:41 already on that particular rooftop.
10:09:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded.
10:09:45 >>MARY MULHERN: My question -- and I think I was the
10:09:48 one that asked to have this continued from the consent
10:09:53 agenda last time -- was that when you look at the
10:09:57 length of the contract and the amount from information
10:10:03 I got from talking to people in the industry, because
10:10:06 this is a historic district, I think we could have
10:10:11 negotiated for higher amounts.
10:10:14 It doesn't look like any of that has change.
10:10:17 Did you go back and talk to them?
10:10:20 Or are we still at the same amount starting with
10:10:26 >>> Before we had put this in, we had already consulted
10:10:30 with our real estate division, the manager of that.
10:10:33 This is consistent with an existing piece of equipment
10:10:36 that's already there from another company.
10:10:38 This is consistent with the same dollar amount.
10:10:42 It is also consistent with what we hear of what private
10:10:45 entities are deriving for this type of equipment.
10:10:48 And so, therefore, we did not see where we were able to
10:10:52 necessarily extract any additional rental for that
10:10:55 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, I think the reason -- you know,
10:10:58 what I heard from people both in the business community
10:11:01 and Ybor and people in the cell phone or cell tower
10:11:05 industry was that because this is a historic district,
10:11:08 then there's really not -- there's very few
10:11:12 opportunities to locate these.
10:11:13 I just wish we had driven a harder bargain.
10:11:18 Because there's already one there, when was that placed
10:11:21 >> Just in the last couple of years.
10:11:23 The other situation we are looking at is whether there
10:11:25 will be other additional possibilities.
10:11:27 Depending upon the type of equipment, the
10:11:30 configuration, the height of existing buildings, we are
10:11:32 going to be looking at whether there is other
10:11:34 opportunities other than on this particular parking
10:11:37 The good thing is, this is the city deriving the
10:11:40 We are also working with the wireless companies and
10:11:43 other telecommunications companies to see if there is
10:11:46 other opportunities for some of the various historic
10:11:49 property owners.
10:11:50 So we have this possibility.
10:11:51 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay, thanks.
10:11:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion by Councilwoman Miller,
10:11:59 seconded by councilman Miranda.
10:12:01 All in favor?
10:12:06 >>MARY MULHERN: Nay.
10:12:08 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried westbound Mulhern voting
10:12:10 no and Caetano being absent.
10:12:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 63.
10:12:27 >>GREG SPEARMAN: Director of purchasing.
10:12:28 I'm here to talk to you about item 63.
10:12:31 And if we could have the staff to please bring up the
10:12:37 City Council has asked the administration to look at
10:12:50 ways to reduce costs and to save money.
10:12:52 And one of the ways to do that is through what is known
10:12:55 as just in time inventory management.
10:12:58 One particular type of just in time inventory
10:13:00 management we would like to talk to you about today is
10:13:03 a contractor operated score.
10:13:06 So let's look a little more closely at what just in
10:13:10 time inventory management is.
10:13:12 Just in time inventory management is a strategy for
10:13:14 inventory management which maintenance, repair and
10:13:18 operating supplies are delivered from the vendor or
10:13:21 supplier immediately before they are need at the time
10:13:25 needed and the date in operation of by city government.
10:13:31 By example of a modern just in time management contract
10:13:34 would be, the supplies are typically ordered one day
10:13:39 and they are delivered to you the next day without the
10:13:42 need to store and stock inventory on hand.
10:13:45 Let's talk a moment about how just in time works.
10:13:47 Just in time would change the current method of
10:13:50 acquiring inventory items.
10:13:52 Just in time suppliers would stock city employee
10:13:55 guaranteeing minimum stock levels at contract pricing
10:13:59 for the city's use.
10:14:01 Departments would then place orders using the Internet
10:14:03 and just in time suppliers would deliver items to
10:14:07 predetermined city locations within the time
10:14:10 established within the JIT contract.
10:14:15 Let's talk about one type of just in time inventory
10:14:18 This is known as a contract operated parts store,
10:14:24 defined aspirated on-site fleet maintenance part
10:14:27 inventory and distribution center designed to replace
10:14:30 the in-house operation currently being utilized.
10:14:35 So what are some of the types of things that you would
10:14:38 include in a contract operating parts store?
10:14:40 Some of the major categories would include things like
10:14:43 air conditioning parts and accessories, batteries,
10:14:46 belts, hoses, brake parts and accessories, just to name
10:14:50 a few items listed on this item before you.
10:14:55 Now, what would be the benefit for having a contract
10:14:57 operated parts store?
10:14:59 First of all, you will see a reduction in number of
10:15:03 purchase orders, invoices to be purchased by the city.
10:15:08 There will be fewer city dollars tied up in inventory,
10:15:11 on the shelf, elimination of problems associated with
10:15:15 over and understocking, elimination of obsolescence.
10:15:18 You see about an 8% savings on contract pricing from
10:15:21 fleet maintenance and we know that because we issue an
10:15:24 RFP about eight months ago and from that process we did
10:15:27 identify the savings of parts.
10:15:30 You also see about a 36% savings on personnel and
10:15:33 operating expenses.
10:15:35 And the big benefit and values that you have in 80%
10:15:39 contracted on demand rate improving availability of
10:15:42 needed parts and timeliness of fleet repairs.
10:15:49 Under a contract for operated parts store contract, the
10:15:52 terms include inventory buy back of existing stock on
10:15:57 hand, 80% on demand guarantee of inventory parts, the
10:16:03 contract would be for a term of five years, renewable
10:16:06 by lease agreement of five additional one-year period
10:16:10 and would also include termination clause, ten-day
10:16:14 notice with cost or 30 day written notice without cost.
10:16:20 The next slide is really the most compelling because it
10:16:22 basically gives you a very detailed comparison of our
10:16:26 current process today.
10:16:29 With what a contract operated parts store process would
10:16:33 The stock availability on demand would go from 44% to
10:16:39 44% to 80%.
10:16:40 And what that means is we would be able to repair
10:16:43 vehicles much faster because of the higher on demand
10:16:46 rate of parts.
10:16:47 The staff salary would decrease from 343,551 to 194.
10:16:53 The annual bids will reduce from 23 to 1 so you will
10:16:58 see a lot of things there on the staff side.
10:17:01 On the administration side.
10:17:03 The average monthly purchase order to reduce from 50
10:17:06 per month down to zero.
10:17:09 And you would also see an average monthly increase,
10:17:13 invoices, rather, and checks processed from 300 down to
10:17:19 So let's look at the current staffing.
10:17:22 Under current staffing we have five employees at this
10:17:25 location with an annual payroll of $343,551.
10:17:32 Understood the proposed contract operated parts store
10:17:36 concept, you would also have five employees from the
10:17:41 contract vendor with an annual payroll of $194,000.
10:17:47 This next slide basically shows you the contract
10:17:49 operated parts store savings to the city.
10:17:52 The first thing you see is that we will save about
10:17:55 $232,000 annually in parts.
10:17:58 We would also have a one-time buying of existing
10:18:01 inventory which has a value of about $300,000.
10:18:04 And the total first year savings would be $681,551.
10:18:08 The annual reoccurring savings would be 381,551 or
10:18:12 about $2 million over a five-year period.
10:18:17 Hillsborough County has had existing successful
10:18:22 operation since 2010, and this is a quote from Deborah
10:18:27 Benavidez, Hillsborough County fleet management.
10:18:30 Also the Palm Beach County sheriff's office has an
10:18:32 existing operation as well.
10:18:37 So what we are proposing is to reissue the RFP.
10:18:41 This particular JIT initiative would definitely
10:18:45 increase efficiency and effectiveness within city
10:18:48 It will lower costs, improve customer service, and with
10:18:51 the contract to initiate that within 60 days of
10:18:55 approval by City Council.
10:19:10 When you start giving increases you look to your left
10:19:13 and look to your right and some brothers and sisters
10:19:15 are not going to be here, and this is evidenced by this
10:19:18 I can also tell you that just earlier, I spoke to the
10:19:23 gentleman, I believe Mr. Young from mother nature.
10:19:27 At that time contract -- I am not trying to get to 64
10:19:33 right now.
10:19:34 I am just bringing it up because this is a five year
10:19:36 contract, not a six month contract.
10:19:38 And then I looked at the batteries the other day.
10:19:41 And nothing wrong with doing what you are doing.
10:19:42 There's nothing wrong in buying $72,000 in my mind
10:19:47 serves me correct.
10:19:49 Systems I get a glitch but since I got very little to
10:19:52 do at the house all I do is read.
10:19:54 So I'm saying, do we deliver all the batteries at once
10:19:57 or deliver as needed?
10:19:59 So then I'm saying, have we gone out of the box?
10:20:02 And guess what happened to me.
10:20:05 My battery died.
10:20:07 So I went to Uncle Sam's down the street, from Gandy
10:20:14 and Kennedy.
10:20:15 Why did I go there?
10:20:16 Because my experience was that that 36-month battery, I
10:20:21 bought it 35 months and 12 days.
10:20:25 When I got there, they installed the battery for 1.09.
10:20:30 Brand new battery.
10:20:32 Then I started looking into the prices.
10:20:36 I didn't make any comparison with your prices, even
10:20:38 though I had them.
10:20:40 But I guarantee you that if we go out of the box -- and
10:20:43 there's nothing wrong with what we are doing legally --
10:20:46 but we just don't take advantage of the personnel
10:20:49 knowledge that we have in the city.
10:20:52 I can tell you that we can buy better, we can buy at
10:20:57 cost above some price to make a profit, because no one
10:21:01 sells something at a loss.
10:21:02 If you do, they are not going to be in business long,
10:21:06 including the City of Tampa.
10:21:08 I'm not going to dispute those figures.
10:21:10 But there's all the elements that have not been
10:21:13 included in those figures.
10:21:17 What if there was no contract?
10:21:18 What if you did your own purchasing and made bids from
10:21:22 other vendors that maybe didn't qualify.
10:21:25 Later on I am going to tell you that I am going to
10:21:27 bring up the information that I read regarding the -- I
10:21:41 can tell you when you start looking at this form of
10:21:43 contract which is all legal, there's other ways of
10:21:45 doing things.
10:21:46 I don't know what the gentleman spoke about earlier,
10:21:51 Davis -- I forget his New Business item right now.
10:21:54 I'm bad with names but I'm pretty good with figures.
10:21:57 I don't know if they were addressed five months ago,
10:21:59 six months ago, yesterday, or the day before.
10:22:03 If we are trying to lower our costs and employee, just
10:22:06 tell me that's what we are trying to do, we are trying
10:22:09 to clean out the city and hire new employees at half
10:22:12 the cost.
10:22:13 Tell me that and I can accept it.
10:22:15 But when we go around and saying we go from 300 bids to
10:22:18 one bid, of course you are.
10:22:20 It's a five-year bid.
10:22:22 So I don't have time to digest all the numbers and the
10:22:25 figures as they come up because they are only here for
10:22:29 But I can tell you that it has to change the way we do
10:22:35 It's got to be outside the box.
10:22:39 At one time we were going to buy some TV sets many
10:22:41 years ago when I was here, and I saw the bid.
10:22:45 And I went to different vendors, the same brand, the
10:22:47 same density, and guess what.
10:22:51 Just because you have a state bid, or you piggyback on
10:22:55 somebody else's bid, these the easy way.
10:22:58 You go out and look at what you are buying and price it
10:23:01 somewhere else, you would be surprised what you find.
10:23:04 That's all I have got to say, Mr. Chairman.
10:23:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:23:07 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:23:09 I just want a couple things.
10:23:11 And I'm glad Mr. Miranda brought this up because we
10:23:14 have several things on the agenda today to discuss that
10:23:18 are three-year, five-year contracts.
10:23:22 And I don't -- I think as council, it's important for
10:23:26 us to look at those, the length of those contracts
10:23:30 seriously considering that this council and the
10:23:35 administration will be turning over in March, and so it
10:23:44 seems sort of -- doesn't really make sense to me at
10:23:48 this point to be entering into these long-term
10:23:54 arrangements when we are going to have new people
10:23:56 governing in success.
10:24:00 Really, my problem with this, and I really would
10:24:08 discourage this council from passing anything today
10:24:11 with regard to this, considering that this did come up
10:24:14 last year, and we had the opportunity to speak with
10:24:18 some of the ATU people, people from the fire
10:24:23 department, who had some really good data and good
10:24:27 arguments against privatizing this.
10:24:30 And what I would compare it to is kind of like you are
10:24:34 asking us to go from being able to take a really
10:24:39 specialized equipment, you know, fire prevention
10:24:43 equipment, our police cars, I don't know, does this
10:24:48 include -- let me ask you this question first.
10:24:50 What are we talking about?
10:24:52 We are talking about police and fire?
10:24:56 >>GREG SPEARMAN: We are talking police and fire, public
10:24:59 >>MARY MULHERN: And public works.
10:25:00 So we are talking about this really specialized
10:25:03 And instead of being able to take your Nissan to your
10:25:10 Nissan dealer, you are going to have to go to NAPA,
10:25:15 instead of having specialists who only works on fire
10:25:23 trucks or garbage trucks, who know the equipment of
10:25:27 that we have, who knows -- you have been dealing with
10:25:31 for years, and you are going to go to customer service
10:25:35 It just doesn't make sense from an efficiency
10:25:39 standpoint that you are going to lose the institutional
10:25:43 knowledge, and also even if you are hiring new people,
10:25:50 these people are specialists, and this is special
10:25:52 equipment, and it's really the main part of what we
10:25:57 provide and a huge amount of our tax dollars go to
10:26:02 So I just don't think it makes sense, and I think in
10:26:05 the long-term you are going to see -- I mean, you have
10:26:10 an emergency and need a part for your fire truck, you
10:26:14 are going to call NAPA, they are going to be open?
10:26:18 I mean, it doesn't make sense that you are going to put
10:26:20 this in the hands of privatize this when it's a very
10:26:24 specialized proposition, and the people know the parts
10:26:29 and the equipment.
10:26:32 And I think that we need to trust and support our
10:26:40 long-term employees that know what they are doing.
10:26:46 But let me just say one thing that I would like to say
10:26:49 to the new council members, is you really owe
10:26:55 yourselves and the public the opportunity to really
10:26:57 look at this and get all the information before you
10:27:00 make a decision on this, because when I heard about
10:27:03 this six or eight months ago, I was very convinced by
10:27:09 the professionals who were in these jobs now that we
10:27:14 shouldn't privatize this.
10:27:15 So at the very least I think this needs to be continued
10:27:18 until we can -- everyone can look at all the
10:27:21 information that's out there.
10:27:23 And look at other municipalities who have done this.
10:27:26 Because what I understood was that there were
10:27:29 municipalities including Hillsborough County that were
10:27:31 not real happy with having privatized this.
10:27:33 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Spearman, you said we have
10:27:39 five mechanics down there now and we are still going to
10:27:41 have five?
10:27:43 >>GREG SPEARMAN: These are not ex-mechanics.
10:27:45 These are inventory employees.
10:27:48 We are not talking about mechanics.
10:27:49 We are talking about employees who run the inventory
10:27:52 Not mechanics.
10:27:53 We are talking about inventory employees.
10:27:56 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: So the mechanics we have, we will
10:27:57 keep them?
10:27:58 They will be employed?
10:28:00 >>> That's correct.
10:28:01 >> I guess everybody else got the same information from
10:28:04 Ron Irvin, mechanical supervisor, where they were
10:28:06 talking about an after cooler that cost them $1500, and
10:28:10 it's easy to take it off and put a new one on.
10:28:14 That's the easiest way.
10:28:15 But they ended up fixing this thing for $150.
10:28:19 So if we are going to be a parts replacement place,
10:28:23 which is very easy to do, a lot of businesses do that
10:28:26 because the consumer is going to pay for it.
10:28:28 But we are the consumers, the taxpayers, and we need to
10:28:31 watch that.
10:28:33 $150 to 1500 is a lot of money.
10:28:38 So I think we need more time on this.
10:28:41 I'm particularly not ready to vote on this today.
10:28:43 I want to do a little more research.
10:28:53 >>CURTIS STOKES: When I originally made this motion on
10:28:55 September 2nd we were in the midst of the throes of
10:28:57 budget discussion, and Mr. Miranda mentioned thinking
10:29:01 outside the box as relates to different ways that the
10:29:05 city conducts its business.
10:29:06 The City of Tampa currently has an AA rating through
10:29:12 And just a couple of things that Fitch highlighted
10:29:14 about the City of Tampa, it says that Tampa's financial
10:29:17 profile is expected to weaken with deficits in fiscal
10:29:20 years 2010-11.
10:29:22 Reserves are expected to remain healthy, nonetheless,
10:29:25 but to produce break-even or surplus results through
10:29:31 revenue enhancements including tax rate increases or
10:29:34 additional costs measures.
10:29:36 The financial profile at risk.
10:29:40 It also goes on to say that management also reports
10:29:43 that it's property tax rate increase may be considered
10:29:47 for fiscal year 2012 budget year.
10:29:50 When I originally made this motion in September
10:29:53 2nd, this is the information I was going by.
10:29:56 And thinking outside the box different ways that the
10:29:59 city could try to save additional funds as it relates
10:30:02 to the budget going forward.
10:30:04 Because next year is going to be a very bleak year
10:30:10 financially for the city and I was just looking for
10:30:11 ways to try and offset or to get ahead of the budget
10:30:16 crisis that we are going to have next year.
10:30:18 Thank you.
10:30:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This is my second term -- my second
10:30:25 time and I will honor your two speaking operations,
10:30:29 I would just like to ask, when you saw the difference
10:30:32 of 350,000 versus the new salary of 1,992,000 in
10:30:39 savings, let me ask this question.
10:30:42 At 350, is that a pure cost of the employees?
10:30:45 Or is that cost as that piece of paper flows through
10:30:50 different departments and there's additions added onto
10:30:53 to that cost?
10:30:54 Which is it?
10:30:56 >>GREG SPEARMAN: That cost basically represents two
10:30:58 things, the salary savings, and also the savings and
10:31:01 the parts costs.
10:31:02 >> So there's no add ons for any departments that
10:31:06 handle that paper at all, none?
10:31:09 >>> No.
10:31:10 That's correct.
10:31:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
10:31:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, as I recall, we took this issue
10:31:16 up before under the, I guess, prior board, the other
10:31:22 council persons here, and councilman Caetano requested
10:31:28 this come back.
10:31:29 Let me just tell you what my concerns are relative to
10:31:32 One is you're right, councilman Miranda, we have to
10:31:38 think outside the box.
10:31:39 You're right, councilman Stokes, that's going to be an
10:31:41 issue relative to this budget next year, the year
10:31:46 before that and the year before that and the last three
10:31:49 We pretty much balanced the budget, as you look at it,
10:31:52 to make some adjustment as well as taking some money
10:31:55 out of reserves and that's a known fact.
10:31:58 Hard to do that next year because your reserves right
10:32:01 now are at 20 or 21% of your budget.
10:32:05 However, I think that when you are looking at this and
10:32:10 you talk about what the private sector is able to do, I
10:32:13 think, one, why can't government operate like a
10:32:18 business, like private sector in that regard?
10:32:22 And this is what councilman, I believe, is talking
10:32:26 about thinking outside the box.
10:32:28 Two, I think there has to be a dialogue with every
10:32:31 employee that may find themselves in this situation,
10:32:34 allow them the opportunity to come up with creative
10:32:36 ideas that can save the city money.
10:32:40 Believe me, you have people that are working for the
10:32:42 city for 20, 30 years, probably know how to save money,
10:32:48 know better than we do or those that sit in the offices
10:32:52 looking at paperwork and that kind of thing.
10:32:54 So you have employees out there.
10:32:55 Give them the opportunity to bid on these kind of
10:32:59 things, or come up with suggestions and ways how to
10:33:01 save the cost.
10:33:03 And I look at overall, the savings really are go to be
10:33:07 in eliminating those five positions.
10:33:09 Now I know you say we are going to save 282,000 parts,
10:33:16 and that's because the private sector is going to have
10:33:18 There has got to be a way that government can do the
10:33:21 same thing thinking outside the box, how can we save in
10:33:24 terms on the parts and that sort of thing.
10:33:26 So I think there's going to be opportunity for this
10:33:29 administration or the future administration for this
10:33:33 council to have been think outside the box, think of
10:33:36 ways how to get employees to think outside the box,
10:33:38 because ultimate ultimately their jobs are on the line
10:33:42 when you look at this.
10:33:43 I think they need to have input and say, I'm willing to
10:33:46 bid, I'm willing to look at and give some ideas, how we
10:33:49 can help save our jobs, how to help save taxpayers
10:33:53 So I think it's going to take this whole government,
10:33:56 city government, going to take this council, going to
10:33:59 take all of us trying to find ways how to balance the
10:34:01 budget without borrowing from reserves, and finding new
10:34:05 creative ways on how to do bidding on at a cheaper
10:34:12 So that's where I am on this particular issue.
10:34:21 >>GREG SPEARMAN: Councilman Scott, if I could make one
10:34:24 The mayor has implemented an efficiency and effective
10:34:26 task force.
10:34:27 You may have heard the acronym ETF that has looked at a
10:34:32 number of different ways in which the city can save
10:34:34 money, and that has been rolled out not only to the
10:34:38 department heads and administrators, but to all city
10:34:41 employees, and a number of ideas have come in, and a
10:34:44 number of those ideas have been implemented.
10:34:46 So that has been an ongoing process.
10:34:48 The reason that this particular proposal offers savings
10:34:54 is because we are talking about long-term employees who
10:34:57 have maxed out at their salary limits, and also because
10:35:02 we are talking about tapping into a supplier who has a
10:35:05 vast distribution network in place than is able to
10:35:10 offer us phenomenal pricing that we simply can't get
10:35:13 because we don't buy that volume of parts.
10:35:15 So we are benefiting from their buying power in the
10:35:18 marketplace and those savings are passed onto the city.
10:35:20 That's why we are able to save in terms of those parts.
10:35:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And I understand, Mr. Spearman.
10:35:26 I hear that.
10:35:27 I recognize administration has this committee in place.
10:35:31 But I heard an employee coming forth this morning
10:35:34 saying will you afford us the opportunity?
10:35:36 I heard that from your own city employee this morning.
10:35:39 Is that right?
10:35:39 So evidently they are not aware of this committee or
10:35:44 they have not been given an opportunity to put together
10:35:47 So what I am talking about is, in this parameter here,
10:35:52 with this venue, the employees need opportunity to say,
10:35:56 okay, let's put together a proposal that will help save
10:35:59 our jobs and save taxpayer dollars, because that's what
10:36:02 we talk about.
10:36:04 That's exactly what we are talking about. We are
10:36:05 talking about shifting these jobs over to the private
10:36:10 Pretty much.
10:36:10 And at some point, you know, Mr. Spearman, at some
10:36:16 point, the next administration and this council has to
10:36:19 look at everybody's position, everybody's position in
10:36:23 terms of how you are going to cut costs, how you are
10:36:26 going to save money and move forward.
10:36:28 That's a fact.
10:36:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
10:36:35 Mr. Chairman gave me the right to speak for the third
10:36:38 Let me say this.
10:36:38 I agree in philosophy with what you are saying.
10:36:41 However, when it comes to the mechanics and the bolts
10:36:43 and nuts, that company, whichever company it is, has
10:36:48 the supply, we have the need for the demand.
10:36:50 Whether you buy it today or you buy on the 364th
10:36:56 day of the calendar that company is going to service
10:36:58 you at that same price.
10:36:59 But what I'm saying is, there's nothing wrong when
10:37:02 buying from that company that wants to give you the
10:37:06 discounted price.
10:37:07 Not at all.
10:37:08 If you are not going to order 10,000 batteries, you are
10:37:11 going to order the batteries that you need as it
10:37:15 becomes available for those individuals to replace
10:37:17 those batteries.
10:37:18 So I am just using that as an example.
10:37:21 So what I am saying is there is no need for inventory
10:37:24 if you have a company that's willing to give you the
10:37:26 supply on a demand use basis.
10:37:28 There's nothing wrong with that philosophy.
10:37:30 So what I'm saying is, where is the difference in
10:37:32 savings of the cost if you already have a company that
10:37:36 will negotiate with you and give you those supplies as
10:37:39 you need them instead of buying them in bulk?
10:37:42 I don't know.
10:37:43 I don't have an answer to that myself.
10:37:45 That's why I'm asking questions.
10:37:47 And if that company wants to give that break, and they
10:37:50 hold the inventory, I see nothing wrong with that.
10:37:54 Nothing at all.
10:37:55 And that should save you some money.
10:37:57 Really doesn't save you the money.
10:37:58 Saves you the interest on the money that you are
10:38:01 putting forward, and today's interest rate that you are
10:38:04 going to get at the bank is 1.5, with a lot of money in
10:38:08 the bank.
10:38:08 So that's what it's going to save you.
10:38:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, thank you, Mr. Spearman.
10:38:15 And I do take note, I want to note again that this came
10:38:18 forward as a request of this council.
10:38:20 So I want to note that, as a result of Mr. Councilman's
10:38:23 stoke's and councilman cab tan oh made a motion and
10:38:26 this council supported that motion for this
10:38:27 So no action is required.
10:38:30 By council.
10:38:31 Thank you again for your work and for this information.
10:38:33 >>GREG SPEARMAN: Okay.
10:38:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We'll move to item 64.
10:38:37 >> If we could have the staff bring up the PowerPoint
10:38:47 for the next item, please.
10:38:51 This particular presentation deals with item 64 with
10:39:03 regard to the City of Tampa purchasing thresholds.
10:39:08 This was a result of a motion that was made on
10:39:10 September 2nd by councilman Miranda, seconded by
10:39:13 councilman Stokes.
10:39:15 What I would like to do is to a basically go over an
10:39:18 outline with you that talks about the concerns with the
10:39:21 proposed resolution.
10:39:23 I want to talk a little bit about the current process,
10:39:26 the comparison of staffing requirement, the impact of
10:39:29 lowering the purchasing threshold, the City of Tampa
10:39:32 threshold comparison with the Tampa Bay area
10:39:34 jurisdictions, and some conclusions.
10:39:38 The current process as adopted by City Council in 1992
10:39:43 and has been in place almost 20 years, and was created
10:39:46 to streamline procurement for small dollar purchases,
10:39:50 and in particular to make it easier for our small
10:39:54 business community to do business with the City of
10:39:55 Tampa by decreasing the wait time and other associated
10:39:58 factors that come into play with the small business.
10:40:03 It's important to understand that all bids are
10:40:06 competitively bid, they are a warred with policy and
10:40:13 city charter.
10:40:15 The departments initiate the procurement request to
10:40:18 purchasing, pay 5,000 and 100,000 for the department,
10:40:27 and they are awarded to the lowest responsive and
10:40:30 responsible bidders.
10:40:31 And bid results before City Council on a weekly basis.
10:40:37 Now, what are some of the typical types of items we are
10:40:42 Automotive tires, you heard batteries, filters, small
10:40:47 parts, services, and occasionally a piece of heavy
10:40:51 equipment such as a backhoe which will cost about
10:40:57 Now, bids that are currently over $100,000 are approved
10:41:01 by City Council.
10:41:02 They are coordinated through city administration, and
10:41:08 ton City Council for approval of the agenda process.
10:41:11 Now this chart shows the comparison of our current
10:41:14 process of awarding bids and contracts under 100,000
10:41:17 as, as opposed to the lower limit of 50, and what you
10:41:23 see there in the, you are going to add a significant
10:41:26 number of steps to the process and therefore increase
10:41:28 the amount of time it takes to award a small dollar
10:41:33 This chart basically shows what that looks like from a
10:41:39 graphical point of view in terms of or current process,
10:41:42 being around the 15-day mark, and the process would
10:41:47 basically take us to about 40, 45 days.
10:41:53 There's also some uncertainty in the small business
10:41:58 community, whether or not something that appears on the
10:42:00 agenda is going to be approved.
10:42:01 So there's additional staff times involved, additional
10:42:04 times for City Council to look at these small dollar
10:42:06 purchases, and there is also concern within our small
10:42:10 business community about how long it's going to take to
10:42:14 award them.
10:42:15 As we compare the City of Tampa with other Tampa Bay
10:42:18 jurisdictions, we see that Tampa is right in line with
10:42:22 what other jurisdictions are doing with regard to their
10:42:25 bid threshold.
10:42:27 Pinellas County is at 250.
10:42:29 Hillsborough County is 100,000.
10:42:31 City of St. Pete 100,000.
10:42:33 City of Clearwater 100,000.
10:42:34 The City of Tampa 100,000.
10:42:38 Adopted in 1992.
10:42:39 And it's been in place for almost 20 years.
10:42:42 Only Pasco is beneath us at 25,000.
10:42:46 So what are the impacts of lowering the threshold?
10:42:49 Well, the staff workload is going to increase because
10:42:55 now we have to turn these into resolutions.
10:42:58 The time required to obtain approval would increase and
10:43:02 therein would be some impact on the business community
10:43:04 by having to wait much longer and the degree of
10:43:07 uncertainty in terms of whether or not award is even
10:43:10 going to be approved by City Council.
10:43:15 We also will have some missed opportunities, more
10:43:23 procurement for purse because we are spending time
10:43:25 processing these small dollar purchases.
10:43:28 Decreasing the available staff time to do research in
10:43:31 terms of best practices in the industry.
10:43:34 For purchasing.
10:43:35 And less staff time available to really provide good
10:43:39 customer service, enhance customer service.
10:43:43 So our conclusion, the current bid threshold has been
10:43:48 in place for 18 years.
10:43:50 It is an efficient, effective and timely method to
10:43:53 procure a small dollar purchase.
10:43:57 There's no indication for the city or the county any
10:43:59 problems with this approach, no protests have been
10:44:04 City Council has received the small dollar purchases
10:44:06 between 50 and 100 on a weekly basis.
10:44:09 The existing City of Tampa threshold is consistent with
10:44:12 our neighboring Tampa Bay jurisdictions.
10:44:15 Lowering of the bid threshold would unnecessarily
10:44:17 increase the workload for the administration and for
10:44:20 the City Council.
10:44:23 Additional time to approve small dollar purchases would
10:44:26 add greater value and use for high-dollar more complex
10:44:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Miranda?
10:44:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I am not trying to lead into
10:44:41 everything here, but to me 50,000 is not small money.
10:44:44 It's big money.
10:44:46 That's number one.
10:44:46 Number two, I had three individuals that came to speak
10:44:50 about small business and so forth and so on.
10:44:53 I wonder how they got notified.
10:44:58 Do you know?
10:44:59 >>GREG SPEARMAN: The question, please?
10:45:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The three individuals that spoke
10:45:04 today about small business I believe were -- do you
10:45:07 know how they got notified about this meeting?
10:45:10 >> We did alert our small business partners about this
10:45:13 item being on the agenda today just to inform them so
10:45:16 that they would be informed of what was going to be
10:45:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And nothing else added?
10:45:24 I'm a crime knoll gist.
10:45:26 Nothing else added?
10:45:27 Just come in and speak for your behalf or come in and
10:45:29 speak for the city?
10:45:30 Which was it?
10:45:31 >> We made them aware this item was on the agenda and
10:45:34 if they had any concerns certainly they were free to
10:45:37 come to speak to City Council.
10:45:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Now, we do have computers, correct?
10:45:41 >>> We do have computers.
10:45:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Are those computers capable of
10:45:44 flagging something 90 days out?
10:45:46 You are talking about a 45 day versus 18 if I remember
10:45:48 the graph.
10:45:51 Those computers, can you put them in and red flag
10:45:53 something that's coming up within 90 days from the
10:45:58 And you already have the vendors that have applied and
10:46:01 received the first call and lowest bid.
10:46:04 Does that mean that all the bids within 45 days of
10:46:10 ending that contract from 100 to be 50 might change?
10:46:14 Or will never change?
10:46:16 >>> We are currently flagging those today using our
10:46:20 They are doing it --
10:46:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So the staff time is reduced
10:46:23 somewhat by computers?
10:46:24 >>> Well, it would be increased if we lowered the
10:46:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I didn't ask answer that question.
10:46:29 This is like a debate for president.
10:46:31 I asked the question, don't computers help reduce that
10:46:36 staff time?
10:46:37 >>> We have been using computers for many years,
10:46:40 councilman Miranda.
10:46:42 Yes, they do have.
10:46:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So what is wrong with notifying all
10:46:44 the bidders that came in on that item, and mainly oils
10:46:52 and batteries and tires that most of the big vendors
10:46:55 have in stock.
10:46:56 Am I correct?
10:46:57 >>> Well, the problem is --
10:46:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I didn't ask you the problem.
10:47:00 I asked you if these items are in stock.
10:47:02 >>> Inventory items are in stock.
10:47:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All right.
10:47:06 Thank you.
10:47:06 >>GREG SPEARMAN: But the challenge we have, councilman
10:47:09 Miranda, is that many times he would do not know until
10:47:15 a department requests to buy something so there is no
10:47:18 way to predict 100 percent of the time when the police
10:47:20 department something, the water department, the fire
10:47:22 department, and these small dollar purchases hit us all
10:47:26 the time.
10:47:26 So what we do is try to turn those around quickly so
10:47:29 they are able to provide the service they can for the
10:47:32 public, but, you know, if we have to go through an
10:47:35 extended process, to impact the city administration,
10:47:40 City Council, but also using to some extent --
10:47:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Again 50,000 to you is small.
10:47:47 50,000 some me is big.
10:47:48 Again those departments that you are addressing, sir,
10:47:50 have also the computers and the necessary, and they can
10:47:53 tell you by the use of those items how much of that
10:47:57 product they are going to use for a year and how much
10:47:59 is divided, over, under 100 and under 50,000.
10:48:04 So the knowledge of that individual, whoever they are
10:48:07 that handle these computers, I'm not a computer guy.
10:48:10 I can do this and tell you the same thing that computer
10:48:13 is going to tell you based on the necessity of the city
10:48:16 for the last ten years.
10:48:18 So what I'm saying is, if an individual can do it
10:48:22 without a computer, how can we not say that a computer
10:48:24 can't tell you, or sen it up to a space station and
10:48:30 bring it back, that we can't do this with a computer?
10:48:33 >>> Mr. Miranda, the problem is not the computers or
10:48:37 using those.
10:48:37 It's the Tampa International additional steps we are
10:48:39 having to go through that's creating additional work
10:48:41 for the staff, for the administration, and also the
10:48:43 wait time.
10:48:45 That's what the problem is.
10:48:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Again, I don't think there is that
10:48:48 much difference, and the pricing in todays economy, in
10:48:53 my opinion, more than likely will be beneficial to the
10:48:56 city, if you are going to start looking outside the box
10:49:00 for different items to buy will be a lot more savings
10:49:05 than what you are using now and the city may -- notice
10:49:08 I said may save money.
10:49:10 It could save money and no one could debate that.
10:49:13 >>> We do competitive solicitation on all of our
10:49:16 procurements, unless it's --
10:49:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, we need to move.
10:49:24 We are a little behind here.
10:49:26 Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:49:27 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to say a couple of
10:49:30 I think it's interesting that the vendors we heard from
10:49:34 today, mothers organic actually benefited from
10:49:39 council's involvement because they brought forward the
10:49:45 fact that because we were continually renewing bids
10:49:51 with another company that we were spending a lot more
10:49:55 money and we were duplicating steps as far as moving
10:50:00 recycled materials around.
10:50:01 So this council by actually reviewing contracts has
10:50:11 saved the city, the taxpayers, a lot of money.
10:50:13 And that was just one vendor that spoke today.
10:50:18 I think what this would do is, really this is about
10:50:23 providing more transparency.
10:50:25 And Hillsborough County, they have a higher bid level
10:50:28 because they don't -- the county commission actually
10:50:35 oversees that administration.
10:50:36 So they are more clued in on what's going on.
10:50:39 For council, if it doesn't come in front of us, it
10:50:45 doesn't come in front of us.
10:50:47 I think we would be reducing time.
10:50:51 We have, and I think this has happened a number of
10:50:54 times since I have been here, and probably when we look
10:50:59 at an expenditure we question it.
10:51:02 And those are extra eyes.
10:51:04 And those are, you know, your elected council people
10:51:07 looking at the spending. So if we are only looking at
10:51:11 about above 50,000 new now, if we are looking at the
10:51:14 smaller contracts, which I think the majority of city
10:51:16 contracts are probably fall below the $100,000 level,
10:51:21 that's more opportunity for us and the public to see
10:51:25 how we are spending our money, and to make sure that we
10:51:28 are looking at not just the fairness but the openness
10:51:39 of the bidding process.
10:51:40 And then the other thing is, if we have this additional
10:51:48 step, which is basically putting it on the council
10:51:52 agenda, and when you keep talking about this, you know,
10:51:55 all the incredible staff time involved with putting
10:51:58 something in front of City Council, I think it is true
10:52:02 we are just talking about notice to the bidders earlier
10:52:08 so that you can get on the agenda.
10:52:10 And the other thing, the administration has created all
10:52:13 of this bureaucracy about getting, you know, what you
10:52:17 have to do to notify people, and going up through the
10:52:22 whole chain of command instead of just, you know,
10:52:25 getting it on the agenda.
10:52:26 I think to me, you are exaggerating what really needs
10:52:31 to be done.
10:52:32 You are asking that we get notified earlier, and that
10:52:35 it be put on the agenda.
10:52:39 So, yeah, I can see there's a little more staff time
10:52:42 probably for the clerk.
10:52:47 But the other thing is the decision to come and, you
10:52:50 know, the administration to spend a lot of staff hours
10:52:53 lobbying council so that we, you know, approve a bid.
10:52:58 That's a decision that the administration makes.
10:53:00 It doesn't have to spend all that staff time doing it.
10:53:03 So I would support this ordinance.
10:53:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. You know we are always talking
10:53:11 about small business.
10:53:12 What can we do to help small business?
10:53:14 How can we give growth to small business?
10:53:17 Tell me what would happen if we change the policy.
10:53:21 Would small business spend more time trying to do what
10:53:24 they need to do?
10:53:29 Tell me what you have to do.
10:53:30 >>GREG SPEARMAN: Councilwoman Miller, it would
10:53:34 basically have a ripple effect.
10:53:36 One of the constant complaints from --
10:53:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Spearman, before you do that I was
10:53:41 going to be wait and ask a question.
10:53:44 Let me just ask you this.
10:53:46 Do you have any data to support what you are about to
10:53:51 The negative impact on small business and minorities?
10:53:55 Do you have any information you can provide to council
10:53:57 that we can take a look at?
10:54:00 >>GREG SPEARMAN: The only information I can give you
10:54:01 is the anecdotal data that we got from the disparity
10:54:05 Regarding the amount of time it takes to get through
10:54:07 the process, and try to get bids and contract awarded.
10:54:14 I have been in purchasing for 25 years, and I can tell
10:54:16 you that at every place I have ever worked, city of
10:54:20 Savannah, Georgia, Charlotte, North Carolina, Houston,
10:54:23 Texas, Tampa, Florida, the message is consistent.
10:54:26 It is the same.
10:54:27 Small businesses looking to do business with
10:54:29 government, without a lot of red tape, without a lot of
10:54:33 paperwork involved, without a lot of wait time.
10:54:36 That is a consistent thing.
10:54:38 Way hear from them is that when they know, they don't
10:54:44 know how to plan their work and their schedule.
10:54:46 They don't know whether or not they need short-term
10:54:48 financing or if they are going to be able to use the
10:54:50 money that they have until the job.
10:54:54 So to the greatest extent possible that we can make
10:54:56 this process easier for them, I think, is doing not
10:54:59 only the administration a big favor in terms of having
10:55:05 to do more with less, but we are also benefiting the
10:55:08 folks out in the community who benefit from getting
10:55:10 these jobs through the city.
10:55:12 It's a consistent thing I have heard all my life.
10:55:14 >>GWEN MILLER: I think we have to say it like it is
10:55:19 because in this time small business is having a hard
10:55:24 time anyway, and if we are going to hurt them anymore,
10:55:27 what can they do?
10:55:28 They are going to be out of business.
10:55:30 So I think we need to leave it just like it is.
10:55:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, still pretty much when I try to
10:55:37 make a decision, I try to make it based on information
10:55:40 that I have.
10:55:40 And I guess what I am looking for is, where is the
10:55:43 information that this administration provides to us,
10:55:48 that as a result of changing bids it will have a
10:55:50 negative impact on small business.
10:55:52 I hear it's a very common theme.
10:55:55 I understand that. But you have to have some data to
10:55:58 substantiate that.
10:55:59 There's got to be something to show us, okay, here is
10:56:02 the negative impact upon minorities and small business
10:56:05 as a result of this change.
10:56:05 >>GREG SPEARMAN: The only other information I can
10:56:08 offer to you, Chairman Scott, is we look at the
10:56:11 statistics from the small local business enterprise
10:56:13 program, and we can see the trend of an increase in
10:56:16 participation, and where those contract values fall
10:56:21 within that range, and you can see over time that those
10:56:23 numbers have gone up.
10:56:25 Also the number of SMBs participating programs.
10:56:32 36789 we had a young lady, a company she is with, and
10:56:35 she testified that she wanted it to stay as it is.
10:56:40 And she was saying it was working for her.
10:56:46 It must be working.
10:56:47 She came down this morning to tell us, don't change it,
10:56:50 it's helping her out.
10:56:51 I agree with her.
10:56:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.
10:56:57 My second time?
10:56:58 And I promise there won't be a third.
10:57:06 Can you send council members to all bids under 100,000?
10:57:12 >> That's correct.
10:57:12 >> Are they bids up to $99,999 estimates?
10:57:18 >> They have been on occasion, yes.
10:57:20 >> So you meet the threshold, not you directly.
10:57:22 I don't take this personal with anyone.
10:57:24 So then that bid is qualified on the 100,000.
10:57:27 Now let me say this.
10:57:30 One of the reasons, just one.
10:57:32 First of all 50,000 to me is a lot of money.
10:57:35 Second of all, you are using JOCS on some of these
10:57:39 projects or were using JOCSs up to $99,999.
10:57:48 The threshold of 100,000.
10:57:49 The same thing we are talking about helping small
10:57:52 businesses in this area is paying an additional 3 to 4%
10:57:55 on the offset just of that one bid?
10:58:00 Let me tell you where they got that information.
10:58:02 Only two ways can any company get any information from
10:58:04 the city.
10:58:05 Under public records request or they come in and not
10:58:11 you, sir, you meaning us, give them all the information
10:58:14 they put into a database, create a book, give it to you
10:58:18 and you pay them 4% for you giving them the indication
10:58:21 to do business in the city.
10:58:23 How wonderful is that?
10:58:24 That's what I am driving at.
10:58:26 That's why it's anti-small business, not pro small
10:58:30 There is nothing wrong with a small business person at
10:58:34 50 or 100 if after the first six months period or three
10:58:40 months they are notified that that contract is coming
10:58:42 up along with the other bidders to submit a bid.
10:58:46 I'm not saying you have got to say with the same small
10:58:48 business person forever.
10:58:50 Absolutely not.
10:58:50 It would be to your advantage and the City of Tampa's
10:58:54 advantage and the taxpayers' advantage to review those
10:58:59 document to make sure we are getting the best buy.
10:59:01 Today I don't really know that's the case.
10:59:03 So I just told you exactly why.
10:59:06 And I'm not ashamed of that and I can defend that
10:59:09 stance anyway you want, sir.
10:59:10 >>> Any of those, councilman Miranda, that small dollar
10:59:17 purchase, we would be more than happy to sit down with
10:59:19 any council member and show you that.
10:59:21 We have all the documentation.
10:59:24 We are required to.
10:59:25 But if there's a question about any of that, we would
10:59:28 be happy to share that with you.
10:59:30 On occasion we do award between 50 and 100 contracts
10:59:34 renewals because the clause have been in it.
10:59:36 So what we do is go ahead and review on that basis.
10:59:39 But it's done based upon recommendation of the
10:59:42 department, it's done based upon the vendor
10:59:45 It's also done based upon how well that vendor compares
10:59:49 with pricing in terms of the current marketplace so
10:59:51 there is a thorough analysis that takes place in regard
10:59:54 to any renewal.
10:59:55 It's important to understand that we are taxpayers,
10:59:58 too, with the purchasing department.
11:00:01 We very seriously look at what's in the best interest
11:00:04 of the city.
11:00:05 We just don't rubber stamp anything.
11:00:07 The people, the men and women work very hard to make
11:00:11 sure citizens are getting the best bang for tax dollar.
11:00:14 They have been trained on that.
11:00:15 These are certified public purchasing agents who whose
11:00:21 training, certification, education know the best way.
11:00:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:00:28 Mr. Smith.
11:00:28 >> Darrell Smith, chief of staff.
11:00:40 I would like the opportunity just to provide some
11:00:42 comments based on my observations here in the council
11:00:44 chambers this morning, and particularly as it relates
11:00:47 to the ordinance that's before you.
11:00:52 That was enacted in 1992.
11:00:56 With the purpose of streamlining the procurement
11:01:02 18 years ago.
11:01:04 And that ordinance has in it council oversight of any
11:01:09 contract that is completed within the 52 -- the 50 to
11:01:21 999,000 range.
11:01:23 And I would ask what is broken?
11:01:25 And I have heard comments about out of the box.
11:01:27 I have heard comments before we need to lean forward
11:01:30 and do business like the private sector.
11:01:34 What is broken now?
11:01:36 And why would we be considering going back to 1992,
11:01:41 when just in the last three years we have reduced city
11:01:43 staff by 13%.
11:01:47 Now, it is additional workload to accomplish these
11:01:52 Why does council need to have review and transparency
11:01:57 over a $75,000 backhoe?
11:02:01 And, yes, we could look out 90 days and see a backhoe
11:02:05 requirement by the public works department.
11:02:07 But we have to go with lowest responsible bid.
11:02:10 And that's the day that the bid go goes out through
11:02:13 demand star to all of the vendors that are in the area.
11:02:18 You cannot do procurement on a transactional basis.
11:02:23 It has to be a volume basis.
11:02:25 It has to be standardized.
11:02:27 I don't even review transactions between 50 to $99,999.
11:02:34 Because there's a certain amount of staff time
11:02:36 available for the various work that we have required,
11:02:40 and the more we look at small dollar items the more we
11:02:45 focus on those items that don't rise to the requisite
11:02:49 It takes away our time to look at the more important
11:02:52 large ticket items.
11:02:54 I can't provide data, Chairman Scott, on what the
11:02:58 statistics are with small businesses.
11:03:00 But there is no doubt an impact.
11:03:04 When I'm a small business, I see a demand star
11:03:06 transaction for a backhoe.
11:03:09 I submit a bid like everybody else by the deadline.
11:03:13 Within a week to ten days, the procurement department
11:03:16 can say up or down.
11:03:19 Under the proposed concept, I would have to wait three
11:03:22 weeks plus, probably even up to close to 40 days, in
11:03:26 order to fit it into a regular council agenda.
11:03:31 Again, what are you going to find wrong with a backhoe
11:03:35 that was procured in accordance with purchasing
11:03:37 policies and procedures with the lowest responsible bid
11:03:42 and of course the charter?
11:03:44 I would submit that if we approve this today we are
11:03:46 going backwards as a city.
11:03:47 Thank you, sir.
11:03:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a comment but I have to wait
11:03:55 to speak.
11:03:57 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I have a question.
11:04:01 In regard to JOCS, the way I understood it, I compared
11:04:07 this to what the insurance companies do when they come
11:04:12 out to adjust on your repair of your auto accident.
11:04:17 They know exactly what that fender, the paint, the
11:04:22 labor, everything is in there, and that's what they
11:04:25 use, and insurance companies do a lot of research in
11:04:30 order to use that system, because it saves money, and
11:04:35 it saves the insurance company money.
11:04:38 That's all I have to say about JOCS.
11:04:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I will say to this new comment in
11:04:44 terms of going backwards that if that's the case, then
11:04:48 wee when we start going backwards and start talking
11:04:51 about going back to privatizing, again if you are going
11:04:57 to use that, now if you want to apply it across the
11:05:02 That's number one.
11:05:03 Number two is, anytime you bring the items you tell me
11:05:06 that you don't have any data to back up, you make a
11:05:10 qualifying statement, I can stand on it, and this and
11:05:13 that, but we don't have any data to substantiate that,
11:05:17 then we have a problem.
11:05:19 We definitely have a problem.
11:05:20 Because there ought to be some kind of data that's
11:05:24 And you should be collecting that data ongoing through
11:05:29 Mr. Greg house's department.
11:05:31 So my concern is when you tell me you don't have
11:05:34 anything to back up what your position is, then I have
11:05:37 a real issue with that.
11:05:42 And my position is here, I want to support small
11:05:46 business and minorities in terms of the contract, doing
11:05:50 business with the city.
11:05:51 We also got to have information so we can make a sound
11:05:55 and prudent decision.
11:05:57 Now, councilman Miranda made the motion on this item.
11:06:00 I don't know how you want to proceed or anyone else,
11:06:02 for that matter.
11:06:03 Councilman Stokes?
11:06:05 >>CURTIS STOKES: I second the original motion by
11:06:07 councilman Miranda on the original motion September
11:06:12 2nd, as we were discussing budget issues and
11:06:16 talking about thinking outside of the box as relating
11:06:18 to small businesses.
11:06:22 Can we hear from -- I saw Mr. Davis in the back there.
11:06:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: If council requests someone to come up,
11:06:37 it's not a public hearing but you can request.
11:06:41 >>CURTIS STOKES: If he feels comfortable with that.
11:06:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What I would like to do is give the
11:06:54 administration before I -- the question I raised
11:06:59 relating to small business and minorities.
11:07:03 What is the whole impact to small businesses and
11:07:08 What's the negative impact on and how is it going to
11:07:11 increase and so forth?
11:07:13 Do you think you can provide that information?
11:07:15 >>GREG SPEARMAN: Chairman Scott, we don't have that,
11:07:20 but I would have to talk with the administration about
11:07:23 how we would get that, how long it takes to accumulate
11:07:27 At this point I just don't have it.
11:07:30 So the amount of time it would take to get that, we
11:07:32 would have to certainly look at that, talk to Mr. Hart
11:07:35 to find out if he has that or how we go about getting
11:07:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: When is the next report due?
11:07:43 Is it next week?
11:07:45 The next report that's due to us in terms of --
11:07:48 >>GREG SPEARMAN: I'm not certain about the date,
11:07:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If I may ask one question.
11:07:54 Since you have 100 or more and there's only one by the
11:07:58 statements that were made that's in the stone age -- I
11:08:01 didn't say that, or way back, that was Pasco County.
11:08:05 If we could find out what they are doing at 25,000, and
11:08:08 how it compared, what benefit it is to them to have the
11:08:15 25, I would be more than happy to hold this for a later
11:08:18 date discussion, when that is brought in, in comparison
11:08:21 with what we are talking today.
11:08:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So 30 days give you enough time?
11:08:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Fine with me.
11:08:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 30 days, Mr. Spearman?
11:08:30 >>GREG SPEARMAN: I would say minimum of 30.
11:08:31 Perhaps more than that.
11:08:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's look at 30.
11:08:36 Let's oh go to our first meeting, December 2nd?
11:08:42 Let's place it on our agenda for December 2nd,
11:08:44 bring that data back to us.
11:08:45 I would appreciate if I could get it ahead of time, as
11:08:49 did this time.
11:08:50 You gave it to me weeks in advance so if I can get it.
11:08:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved to continue this to
11:08:55 December 2nd.
11:08:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
11:08:58 All in favor?
11:08:59 Thank you very much.
11:09:00 We'll move to item 65.
11:09:14 Anybody from the legal department here?
11:09:15 This is on the request by councilman Caetano and Stokes
11:09:18 to the election process.
11:09:25 Nobody here to address that then?
11:09:29 Okay, we'll come back to that item.
11:09:31 All right.
11:09:33 Item 69 is being continued.
11:09:38 This is the item on 34th street and Chelsea, an
11:09:41 accident occurred, with a death.
11:09:42 I understand that's an ongoing investigation, not
11:09:45 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Has that been continued?
11:09:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: February 2011.
11:09:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right then.
11:09:54 Item 70.
11:09:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: A recommendation of a bicycle
11:10:08 accident safety plan.
11:10:09 I did give you an update, the plan has not been adopted
11:10:12 by Hillsborough County Board of County Commissioners at
11:10:14 their October 6th meeting.
11:10:16 They did direct staff to bring back something to them.
11:10:19 I believe it's November 4th.
11:10:21 I don't have it in front of me.
11:10:22 But I have a draft in general in nature, a resolution
11:10:27 in support of the creation of a bicycle safety action
11:10:30 Council can move that agenda today, and again the
11:10:34 county will be taking up the issue in early November.
11:10:42 You can move the resolution if you wish.
11:10:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
11:10:45 >>MARY MULHERN: Second?
11:10:46 All in favor?
11:10:50 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.
11:10:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 71.
11:10:52 >> I'm Kimberly cross, the director of human resources
11:11:08 here to provide an overview for you on item number 71
11:11:10 which is the voluntary wellness center services
11:11:13 contract with Care ATC.
11:11:16 If I could ask staff to please bring up the --
11:11:28 Currently the City of Tampa's health insurance plan has
11:11:31 over 10,000 members.
11:11:32 This includes our active employee population, our
11:11:35 nonmedicare retirees and their dependence.
11:11:39 For 2010, you will see a total spend for being active
11:11:44 population of $35 million that includes about $27
11:11:48 million of city funds and the balance being paid by
11:11:51 payroll deduction.
11:11:52 Our retirees do pay the full impact of their health
11:11:57 insurance coverage.
11:11:59 This benefit is provided for employees and retirees
11:12:04 under all bargaining unit agreements.
11:12:06 You will recall that the city is obligated to pay 100
11:12:08 percent of the individual coverage and 50% of the
11:12:11 additional dependent coverage under our agreement.
11:12:15 And we do that.
11:12:18 We have a goal as an employer of providing competitive
11:12:20 high quality benefits while effectively managing the
11:12:22 cost of those benefits for both the employee and the
11:12:26 And it's important to know that because we are fully
11:12:29 insured through an outside carrier the cost of our plan
11:12:32 is based on claims experience, so each year our carrier
11:12:35 looks at our claims for the prior years, and determines
11:12:38 what our price will be.
11:12:42 Each year we conduct an annual plan review that's done
11:12:45 in conjunction with our benefits consultant Gallagher
11:12:49 benefits services, and in the early part of 2010 we
11:12:53 were notified by Humana that our premiums were expected
11:12:57 to increase by about 20%, and with that it was time to
11:13:00 get to work.
11:13:03 We had continuously looked for ways to make adjustments
11:13:06 to our plans, low impacts to employees and their
11:13:11 families but have great value to us in dollars.
11:13:15 And oaf the past years, we have made improvements or
11:13:18 changes such as requiring employees to use generic
11:13:22 prescription drugs, and for employees to insist on
11:13:27 using name brand drugs, they have to pay the difference
11:13:29 in cost.
11:13:30 Last year we were able to get a reduction across the
11:13:33 board from Humana because of our change in the
11:13:40 transplant program, and that was worth a million
11:13:43 dollars to us and had no real impact on employees at
11:13:46 But I can tell you after looking at the plan this year
11:13:49 the staff and our consultant found there are really no
11:13:53 significant changes that we can make that would impact
11:13:56 the $20 -- the 20% increase.
11:14:00 So it's time to look at claims.
11:14:02 And what we found is that 8% of our claims drive 80% of
11:14:06 our costs.
11:14:06 So what's happening with those 8% of claims?
11:14:10 There are really five manageable conditions that lead
11:14:14 our large claims and you may not be surprised by what
11:14:17 they are.
11:14:17 They include high blood pressure, high cholesterol,
11:14:22 diabetes, tobacco use, and being overweight are or
11:14:25 having a high body mass index.
11:14:27 The diagnosis that can result from these risk fact
11:14:29 towers can have devastating effects on our employees,
11:14:33 retirees and their family.
11:14:35 They include things like strokes, heart attack, kidney
11:14:38 failure, vision loss, even amputation.
11:14:41 And cancer.
11:14:43 So how do we cover these risk factors early enough so
11:14:46 the treatment is most effective and our costs are
11:14:50 We set in motion two requests for proposals to look for
11:14:54 an innovative approach that might help us crack the
11:14:59 One for our health insurance carrier and one for
11:15:02 voluntary wellness centers.
11:15:03 There were two different evaluation committees that
11:15:06 were assigned to each of these RFPs, and the first
11:15:09 found that united health care has the best bid of our
11:15:13 insurance carrier for 2011.
11:15:16 You will be hearing more about that as that contract
11:15:18 comes before you in future weeks.
11:15:20 But certainly united has the largest network of
11:15:22 providers available, and they have a nationwide network
11:15:27 which helps with concerns that we had for our employees
11:15:31 who have college children that are out of town as well
11:15:35 as our retirees who live out of state.
11:15:38 They also have technology that we were very impressed
11:15:40 with, and they have some experience with wellness
11:15:45 Moving to the wellness center proposal, care TPC has
11:15:51 been doing this since 1998 and they have over 40
11:15:55 wellness centers in 15 states.
11:15:58 So we have been working together with these two
11:16:00 companies to for several weeks to ensure that we could
11:16:03 recommend to you a solution that has been the proven
11:16:06 approach that allows the city to stay under budget and
11:16:09 positively impact the five risk factors.
11:16:13 On the left side of this slide you will see
11:16:15 jurisdictions that are currently operating wellness
11:16:17 centers in the State of Florida.
11:16:20 On the right side you will see jurisdictions who are
11:16:23 either awaiting implementation of their centers, or in
11:16:25 the process of gaining approval.
11:16:31 So what is a voluntary wellness center?
11:16:34 Well, to utilize the best practice to reduce the rate
11:16:37 of cost escalation in the health plan.
11:16:39 And it would be available to City of Tampa employees,
11:16:41 non-medicare retirees and their dependents.
11:16:46 It will be managed by Care ATC physicians and staff.
11:16:50 This is really important to our employees that we have
11:16:52 a firewall between their personal medical information
11:16:54 and the city staff.
11:16:57 They will provide high quality, primary, acute and
11:17:01 urgent primary services and they will do that in many
11:17:03 ways, but one of which, which is key for our ability to
11:17:07 drive down costs, is to provide proactive wellness
11:17:11 screening that can uncover health issues early.
11:17:13 This is really done by making early morning
11:17:16 appointments from our covered employees, and retirees
11:17:20 and their dependents, where they will do a fasting
11:17:24 blood draw, see the doctor, and their blood will be
11:17:26 sent out for testing, they will get a full report that
11:17:29 covers a wide variety of different health profiles.
11:17:35 It's done in a dashboard type of report so that you
11:17:39 will see green means good to go, yellow light means
11:17:44 caution and red light means there may be an issue so
11:17:47 they can take that report once it's received at their
11:17:49 home address and visit either with their personal
11:17:51 physician, or with the wellness center to review that
11:17:56 report and get placed on a path to make improvements in
11:17:59 their health wherever needed.
11:18:03 It will be HIPAA compliance so that it is protected and
11:18:08 completely confidential and the recommendation is that
11:18:10 we have three convenient locations, and they will be
11:18:12 based on the geographical concentration of our planned
11:18:18 The benefits to the city primarily we are looking to
11:18:21 reduce the rate of cost escalation in the health plan.
11:18:27 The per visit cost will be cut in half.
11:18:30 Typically today, in our health plan, the average visit
11:18:33 to the doctor is about $95.
11:18:36 For an on-the-job injury under workers' compensation
11:18:38 the average visit is $115.
11:18:42 Under the Care ATC program, a doctor visit would be
11:18:47 estimated at less than $50.
11:18:50 All consumable medical supplies and prescriptions that
11:18:52 are held at the wellness center will be charged to the
11:18:56 city at cost.
11:18:57 And then the really exciting part is the positive
11:19:00 impact that we can have on these risk factors that
11:19:03 drive the cost of our plan.
11:19:06 We'll also see ease of appointment scheduling.
11:19:09 Our employees' time away from work will be reduced and
11:19:13 we will remove barriers to their getting treatment.
11:19:15 The cost for staff facilities and overhead are
11:19:18 prenegotiated so we know what we are paying for.
11:19:21 So while the health plan is fully insured as we
11:19:24 discussed earlier, the workers' compensation program
11:19:27 within the city is self-insured which means that we pay
11:19:29 every bill for each doctor visit for an on-the-job
11:19:32 injury or illness.
11:19:34 So that beginning with the first visit that an
11:19:38 on-the-job injured employee might make to a wellness
11:19:41 clinic, we will see the cost savings from dollar one.
11:19:45 What are the benefits to our employees?
11:19:49 The sites will be convenient.
11:19:50 They will be able to schedule their appointments either
11:19:52 by phone or online and they will be in and out
11:19:55 typically within the hour.
11:19:56 They will have zero co-payment for their visit, zero
11:19:59 co-payment for any generic prescriptions or maintenance
11:20:02 supplies that they might need.
11:20:04 They will receive continuity of care, so they will get
11:20:07 to know the doctor, and the doctor will get to know
11:20:10 It's estimated that about two-thirds of our employees
11:20:12 today don't have an ongoing relationship with their
11:20:15 They go only when something becomes an issue that they
11:20:20 can no longer deal with at home.
11:20:21 And so this gives our employees the opportunity to
11:20:23 build a relationship with our wellness center doctors.
11:20:27 They will be -- there will be support available for
11:20:30 diabetes management and weight loss and tobacco
11:20:33 cessation, and all participation in the program is
11:20:37 Employees can choose to go, choose to remain with their
11:20:41 own doctor, or make the decision based on the issue
11:20:44 they are having at the time.
11:20:49 As far as financials, I wanted to share with you for
11:20:52 our first year of 2011 fiscal year which we are
11:20:54 currently in, of course we are still through Humana at
11:20:58 the end of the year so our premiums are estimated for
11:21:00 the first quarter that we are currently in at almost
11:21:03 $8.3 million.
11:21:05 The united health care visit we received, that includes
11:21:07 our implementation of wellness centers, means that the
11:21:10 three quarters of this fiscal year next calendar year
11:21:15 will cost about $26.3 million in premium.
11:21:21 Wellness clinics will be phased in beginning with
11:21:26 January implementation so we'll have three quarters of
11:21:28 Care ATC responsibility at about $1.6 million.
11:21:32 And then our conservative estimate of on-the-job injury
11:21:37 savings is over half million dollars as you see here.
11:21:39 All that totals together is $35.6 million which leaves
11:21:44 us slightly underbudget for this fiscal year 2011.
11:21:50 As far as the cost of the contract, I wanted to point
11:21:53 out that the first year, of course, is a partial year
11:21:55 of three quarters, and that's $1.6 million as I
11:21:59 The full year with all three clinics operational is
11:22:05 estimated at $2.7 million forts fiscal years 2012 and
11:22:11 And then the full year cost divided by four quarters
11:22:14 you will see quarter one of fiscal year 2014 at
11:22:19 $670,000 for a total of 7.6 million.
11:22:24 So where do have we go from here?
11:22:26 With your approval today, and the wellness center
11:22:28 services contract, we can move forward to work with
11:22:32 Care ATC to determine locations for our January
11:22:35 We can begin to authorize staffing, and hold open
11:22:41 houses for our employees and their families and
11:22:45 retirees and their families to get to meet the doctor
11:22:48 and get to see what the clinic is all about.
11:22:50 And they are really excited about that.
11:22:52 So while we are doing those things we will also be
11:22:54 finalizing the united health care contract which will
11:22:57 come before you in the coming weeks.
11:23:00 And we've that I want to thank you for your interest in
11:23:01 this topic, and respectfully ask for your support of
11:23:04 the contract.
11:23:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Miranda?
11:23:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to compliment you and the
11:23:10 rest of the administration for thinking outside the
11:23:12 box, or almost outside the box.
11:23:14 You got to the rim of the box but you didn't jump out.
11:23:21 Blood tests.
11:23:22 That's most doctors don't do the testing anymore for
11:23:25 whatever reason.
11:23:26 The HIPAA is normal in all medical uses now.
11:23:31 I mean, you can interrupt at any time.
11:23:33 I consider it an honor if you tell me that I am wrong.
11:23:37 Where do they go?
11:23:39 CAT scans, where do they go?
11:23:41 Pet scans, where do they go?
11:23:43 What are costs?
11:23:44 What are pass throughs?
11:23:45 There's things of those nature that I haven't been able
11:23:48 to grasp in reading the documents.
11:23:51 What are the rents? What are the locations? Who are
11:23:53 the doctors?
11:23:54 And I don't want to hear they are board certified.
11:23:56 He or she.
11:23:57 I want to hear -- who are these doctors, and have they
11:24:01 had any complaints filed against them through the
11:24:03 process of which they come from?
11:24:07 I think the public is entitled to know that.
11:24:09 What are the administrative costs?
11:24:11 Does that include bringing the doctors in and moving
11:24:14 What are the rents?
11:24:16 For how long a period of time?
11:24:18 Where are these clinics located?
11:24:20 You see, in my sometimes, I'm not ready to vote on this
11:24:25 because all the things that I just said were not
11:24:29 addressed as to location.
11:24:32 I heard Lutz.
11:24:32 I heard Brandon.
11:24:34 Let me say this.
11:24:34 I don't open my mouth unless I think I know what I'm
11:24:38 That's what Abraham Lincoln once said but he said it in
11:24:41 a much eloquent way.
11:24:42 If you go to this Web site, and you look at the third
11:24:47 bullet down, they have a clinic right now on Swann and
11:24:53 Guess what that clinic says on Swann and Henderson.
11:24:57 That Brandon individuals can come visit that clinic.
11:25:02 So if we are saying we are going to open a clinic
11:25:06 outside the city limits, why don't we use existing
11:25:09 location that they have now?
11:25:11 Based on the use of other cities, I talked to the
11:25:14 people of Clearwater.
11:25:15 They have approximately 700 of their 1600 employees
11:25:19 enrolled in this program.
11:25:23 Guess what they had to do to get there.
11:25:25 It might seem easy in and out.
11:25:26 We might say they don't have a relationship with their
11:25:29 doctors, but maybe they do, with the present doctor.
11:25:32 I don't know that.
11:25:33 That's up to the individual.
11:25:34 See, I'm not on that plan.
11:25:36 I don't have any insurance with the city other than if
11:25:38 I die, somebody collects something.
11:25:42 So what I am saying is this.
11:25:44 I don't can have all that information.
11:25:49 I am not going to vote for this, if you have one clinic
11:25:53 outside the City of Tampa.
11:25:55 There is vacancies in New Tampa.
11:25:57 A lot of them.
11:25:58 And when you talk about promoting East Tampa, that's
11:26:01 close proximity to Brandon.
11:26:03 And these individuals by their own Web site, the
11:26:06 present of the company is named Ron woods.
11:26:08 I don't know if anybody checked into it.
11:26:10 I can also tell you that if they advertised that in
11:26:13 that clinic, I got to pay rent as a taxpayer to
11:26:18 something in the county where they have the right to
11:26:22 move and choose where they live.
11:26:24 I'm not stopping that.
11:26:26 Go live anywhere you want.
11:26:27 But does the United States of America open up a V.A.
11:26:30 clinic in Canada because there's a lot of retired from
11:26:33 the military there?
11:26:34 Absolutely not.
11:26:36 Do have they of the open up in Ecuador where a lot of
11:26:41 retirees go?
11:26:43 Absolutely not.
11:26:43 You put them in centers like Tampa, hest, where there's
11:26:50 a population, yes.
11:26:57 So what I am saying it was advertised in a nice
11:26:59 newspaper, the Penny Saver.
11:27:04 Why was not advertised in the Tribune or the times?
11:27:10 So those are figures that I heard, the 7.6 or 8.2.
11:27:15 What happened? Does that include the rent?
11:27:17 I don't know.
11:27:18 Does that include the pass throughs?
11:27:19 I don't know.
11:27:23 Does that include the doctors?
11:27:27 I don't know.
11:27:28 So what is it -- Clearwater was not successful in the
11:27:37 They had to give $25 gift cards to Publix to give the
11:27:41 employees -- and I don't see nothing wrong with that.
11:27:44 If this is a new concept I applaud Clearwater.
11:27:47 But it has to be more than just what I'm hearing,
11:27:52 because we haven't gone out of the box.
11:27:56 You have the right to go to your own clinic.
11:28:01 But for fear of making a political mistake, I guess we
11:28:04 didn't go there.
11:28:05 We go to a company and say it's their fault, they did
11:28:08 Well, I'm not a blame-you type guy.
11:28:11 If I have to take the heat, I take the heat.
11:28:19 I can tell you this.
11:28:25 I don't know this company, not that I should know.
11:28:29 They were judged by six individuals that are great
11:28:32 I don't know how much they know about health care.
11:28:34 I don't know how much they know about hospitals.
11:28:38 They had a consultant.
11:28:38 That's fine.
11:28:39 Did we try any professionals from this area of some of
11:28:43 the greatest hospitals in this country including Tampa
11:28:46 general, St. Joseph and others, that do this for a
11:28:52 living, not for them to bid but to give advice?
11:28:55 I don't know if we did that or not.
11:28:58 Maybe you did.
11:28:58 But I'm sure not aware of it.
11:29:03 I admit I don't go around saying things, and I
11:29:06 specifically told the three of us that were in that
11:29:08 room with me, I will not vote for this contract unless
11:29:11 those clinics are in the city.
11:29:14 We have a problem here.
11:29:16 We have people that have lost things.
11:29:20 And let me tell you what I think.
11:29:21 When I heard about they want to drive the big trucks up
11:29:24 to the location, that was an information to me that my
11:29:28 senses told me the locations have already been, because
11:29:33 you can't go into a small place with a big truck.
11:29:37 Let me tell you, you are taking a big risk if some city
11:29:42 driver is he or she is having a heart attack -- and I
11:29:46 hope that doesn't happen -- and now wants to drive
11:29:49 themselves to that clinic with that fear?
11:29:52 Instead of stopping and asking, for an emergency use
11:29:55 from the Tampa Fire Rescue to possibly save their
11:29:58 So away from that incident, a diabetic case which could
11:30:04 be me, driving to that clinic, you have a diabetic coma
11:30:08 and you have an accident and kill a couple of people
11:30:11 just to get to the clinic?
11:30:12 There is a big risk that we have never considered.
11:30:15 And it could happen to anything.
11:30:17 Could happen without any of these things, that you have
11:30:21 an accident in a city vehicle.
11:30:23 Once you start that, you open yourselves to other
11:30:26 things, and other incidents that I don't think we have
11:30:29 covered fully, and any aspect of this contract.
11:30:34 Could that happen?
11:30:42 If it can happen it will happen, maybe not today but
11:30:45 Notice I was very careful in saying locations but you
11:30:47 never mentioned the locations.
11:30:49 So I assume that locations are already picked out.
11:30:55 Are my assumptions correct?
11:30:56 >>> The locations have not already been picked out,
11:31:00 although Care ATC has been working for some time to
11:31:03 look at locations in the area.
11:31:05 I personally have not seen any locations myself.
11:31:07 I have not done any walk-through because obviously we
11:31:10 have to have a contract first.
11:31:12 The locations are certainly a big concern of ours.
11:31:16 We want to make sure that they are located where our
11:31:19 employees will make the greatest use of the clinics.
11:31:21 Because we are looking at driving costs down, their
11:31:25 ability to use the clinics and to have them
11:31:28 conveniently located is of paramount importance to us.
11:31:31 I certainly understand the desire to have the clinics
11:31:34 within the City of Tampa, and we are reviewing that as
11:31:37 we look at any future location.
11:31:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me say this as my first time.
11:31:43 I haven't stopped for my second time.
11:31:45 But I just want to make that clear in case I get banged
11:31:50 in the head with the gavel.
11:31:52 But it's paramount to me -- I can't speak for the other
11:31:55 six-these individuals that live in the county, there's
11:31:58 nothing wrong where they live in the county.
11:32:00 This same company, don't believe me, go look at the Web
11:32:03 It tells you and the location on Swann, that used to be
11:32:07 the old Miller orthopedic place, I believe.
11:32:11 I saw it last night.
11:32:13 I can tell you that they say a short drive from
11:32:18 Brandon, and they emphasize.
11:32:21 Do you mean to tell me that I am getting free medical,
11:32:24 and I'm not going to drive five mails to go from
11:32:26 Brandon to East Tampa, or from Lutz to New Tampa?
11:32:31 I have got to be nuts.
11:32:32 Who are the 8% that are creating the 80% of the cost?
11:32:36 Have we addressed that?
11:32:37 Have we talked to that?
11:32:39 Have you brought them in?
11:32:40 To me that's paramount.
11:32:41 If I was running a business and I had that, I would
11:32:44 bring them in.
11:32:45 I don't know if we have or not.
11:32:47 Maybe there's a legitimacy to it.
11:32:50 Maybe they have a very, very bad disease and maybe
11:32:52 that's why they are creating 80% of the cost.
11:32:55 That was brought out but it was never thoroughly
11:32:58 explained as to why they bring out 80% of the cost of
11:33:02 only 8% of those creating it.
11:33:04 You know, a treatment for chemo between 15,000 and
11:33:11 21,000, a treatment.
11:33:15 A treatment for a thumbnail, that's a couple of
11:33:19 So I don't know what the rationale is, and I'm just
11:33:22 saying that in order for me, one, uno, to make a
11:33:28 decision, I have to know what these pass-throughs are,
11:33:30 I have to know who the president is, the
11:33:32 vice-president, the administrative costs, all of that
11:33:34 was not addressed.
11:33:35 All that is built into the cost.
11:33:37 The rents were built into the cost.
11:33:41 I don't know what they are.
11:33:42 They are outside the city, two of them.
11:33:44 So how would I feel if I do run for reelection -- and
11:33:48 maybe I won't -- and I say, you know, Charlie, you are
11:33:51 an idiot, you voted for something out there, and now
11:33:54 for whatever reason it's not working, and I got to pay
11:33:58 rent for three years?
11:34:00 In today's marketplace when rents are available, you go
11:34:02 talk to them, they will run them for six months because
11:34:09 they are broke.
11:34:09 So we are looking at the sites or the approximate of
11:34:15 the sites, and the costs, if I read that right, it's my
11:34:20 So I'm looking for the cheapest buildout, not only for
11:34:25 where they live.
11:34:26 That might be the reason we are saying it but we are
11:34:29 looking for the cheapest buildout.
11:34:31 And I can also tell you, it falls where it falls.
11:34:35 When the Centro Espanol was available, I told the
11:34:38 administration, don't give it away, make that your
11:34:40 first clinic.
11:34:41 And parking, they had the building, and the historical
11:34:45 factors, that those immigrants built it hand by hand,
11:34:48 brick by brick, and is it a use for a good cause?
11:34:53 Yes, it is.
11:34:53 But now I got to pay 300,000 as a taxpayer to fix the
11:34:58 roof and rent it for a dollar a year and go out and
11:35:01 rent three places.
11:35:02 Oh, that's a winner.
11:35:04 Right now I reserve my time for later.
11:35:07 [ Laughter ]
11:35:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Three minutes?
11:35:14 >>> Chairman, if I may, I would like to address the
11:35:17 location question.
11:35:18 There was a lot in that comment so I will start, I
11:35:21 guess with, the location question.
11:35:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me raise a question here.
11:35:26 We are getting close to 12:00, and my intent is to try
11:35:32 to deal with the issues before 12 so they don't have to
11:35:37 come back S.this time sensitive?
11:35:39 Is the item time sensitive?
11:35:42 >>> yes, sir, in our estimation it is because of the
11:35:44 cost savings that we see and because he within a year
11:35:48 we do have been a new carrier, and so we really need to
11:35:51 have a decision on this so we can move forward with
11:35:53 united health care.
11:35:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So then if this council votes this down
11:35:57 today, this hypothetical vote it down, where are we
11:36:01 with the contract?
11:36:02 >>> If this were voted down today, obviously we go with
11:36:08 united health care but their costs will be higher.
11:36:10 They have given up the bid without the wellness centers
11:36:15 Obviously there will be more people going to doctors in
11:36:17 the health plan.
11:36:18 So the costs that we will have for all our employees
11:36:22 will go up.
11:36:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Speak to the location issues.
11:36:28 That's the main thing, I think, Mr. Miranda is speaking
11:36:31 >>> I would be happy to.
11:36:32 If we could bring up the Elmo.
11:36:35 This map shows the analysis that was done by Care ATC.
11:36:41 We have given them a zip code for every employee's home
11:36:45 address and workplace.
11:36:47 And they were able to do a Geo access map.
11:36:51 You will see the darker the red, the higher the
11:36:52 concentration of city employees.
11:36:54 And so their recommendation to us was to have one
11:36:58 wellness center that would be somewhere on the 275
11:37:02 corridor, and then a high concentration north of town
11:37:07 in the Lutz Land O' Lakes, New Tampa area, and one big
11:37:11 concentration in Brandon near the route 60 to Brandon
11:37:19 regional hospital area.
11:37:20 And certainly you can see by the map that that is where
11:37:24 the concentration of employees are.
11:37:26 That does not mean, however, that an employee who lives
11:37:29 in Brandon can't visit a downtown location.
11:37:32 Or vice versa.
11:37:34 They are there for convenience of employees, and the
11:37:37 107,000 people in our plan.
11:37:38 We certainly do believe that the clinic will get a
11:37:43 great deal of use.
11:37:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?
11:37:48 >>GWEN MILLER: You are saying 275.
11:37:52 It would be easier for East Tampa area, wouldn't it?
11:37:54 >> Depending on the location, we are thinking on 275
11:37:58 would be conveniently accessible for employees and
11:38:03 retirees and their families.
11:38:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Smith?
11:38:07 >> Darrell Smith, chief of staff.
11:38:10 Chairman Scott, I realize the importance of going on to
11:38:13 your agenda and I would recommend considering this to
11:38:17 the afternoon session to give us more time to discuss
11:38:23 I realize the importance of your next item on the
11:38:25 agenda, and if we could continue this to this
11:38:27 afternoon, cot give us more time.
11:38:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I was ready to move forward with it.
11:38:32 But if that's the pleasure of council, yes.
11:38:35 >>MARY MULHERN: If we are going to continue it, I
11:38:38 think we need to continue it for more than of a few
11:38:40 hours, maybe a few weeks.
11:38:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, it's time sensitive.
11:38:44 It's time sensitive.
11:38:46 >>MARY MULHERN: All right.
11:38:47 Well, I would like to point this out at this point.
11:38:55 I did get briefed about this but I can't remember if I
11:38:59 got briefed before or after I got my employee letter
11:39:02 telling me we had a new health care plan, awarded a new
11:39:09 health care contract and that we were doing this new
11:39:12 clinic system.
11:39:13 So it's interesting that we talked about the contract
11:39:15 between 50 and 100,000 but here we have an $8 million
11:39:21 contract that's already basically -- the employees have
11:39:25 been notified about this so it sounds like the city is
11:39:28 has already entered into an agreement.
11:39:30 And my biggest problem with this is that, well, I have
11:39:35 a lot of problems with this.
11:39:36 I think Mr. Miranda covered most of them.
11:39:38 But the fact that you are asking for this three-year
11:39:44 contract before we approved the contract for the health
11:39:50 insurance with united health care.
11:39:55 These are dependent on each other from what you told
11:39:58 And the only savings we are going to get is if we have
11:40:01 So I'm not comfortable with approving this now not
11:40:11 There's no guarantee that we are going to get -- I'm
11:40:13 not asking the question at this point but I will be.
11:40:19 That we are going to go through with that, although
11:40:23 apparently we already have.
11:40:24 We have already entered into these.
11:40:27 I think it needs to be -- then the other thing, what I
11:40:32 asked for was a simple like one-page, maybe two,
11:40:36 spreadsheet to show me what were all the bids?
11:40:40 And I didn't get that.
11:40:41 Instead, I got -- well, human resource department or
11:40:48 health insurance company, and I can't go through this.
11:40:52 But Kristina and I both tried, and what I asked for the
11:40:57 bottom line is not in here.
11:41:01 So, you know, I'm not in favor of this at this point.
11:41:06 I think that we are taking a big risk.
11:41:10 And the fact is we are talking about a three-year
11:41:14 contract when we don't even have -- we have, what, six
11:41:17 months left.
11:41:18 And I talked about this earlier, how we are trying to
11:41:21 push through this stuff at the end of term, and I just
11:41:28 don't think -- I don't think it's a good idea.
11:41:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Fletcher, you may want to address
11:41:35 the issue of the contract being signed because I raised
11:41:38 that question and I was told it had not been sign.
11:41:42 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: No contracts have been signed.
11:41:43 We have bids from united health care which have the
11:41:47 clinic included and the clinic not included.
11:41:49 So we have those numbers.
11:41:53 I had a memo addressed to you that had those numbers in
11:41:55 there both with and without the clinic.
11:41:58 So I did not feel that in good faith we could finalize
11:42:01 negotiations with united health care until we had
11:42:04 direction from council as to whether or not we were
11:42:08 going to go forward with the clinic or not.
11:42:10 That's why the clinic is here before you ahead of that
11:42:13 We have the numbers fixed from the bids, but council
11:42:17 needs to make the decision whether to move forward with
11:42:19 the clinics so we can finalize the negotiation with
11:42:22 united health care and bring you a contract to
11:42:24 consummate that proposal.
11:42:27 So that's the timing we are looking at.
11:42:35 And this contract get delayed because Mace and our
11:42:39 office are woo we are working on it trying to make sure
11:42:41 it wags a solid contract to address all the business
11:42:44 terms, so it did get behind what was released to the
11:42:46 staff; that I will take responsibility for that.
11:42:50 But here's where we are.
11:42:52 We do need direction from council so we can consummate
11:42:55 the bids with united health care and determine which of
11:42:58 their bids we would accept.
11:43:02 We just didn't know which direction we were going to go
11:43:05 by action from counseling either approving or denying
11:43:07 this contract.
11:43:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, we can do one of two things.
11:43:11 I want to make this the last item on the agenda this
11:43:13 afternoon, or move forward with it.
11:43:16 I only have one concern with it.
11:43:18 You met with me and went over it, and that was the
11:43:21 issue of the locations.
11:43:24 I understand in showing the maps and all of that.
11:43:36 But we need to either continue this to the afternoon so
11:43:39 we can get more questions related, but clearly what you
11:43:41 are saying today -- and I know you have to get done
11:43:44 because you are will be assigning dates for a person to
11:43:48 be in class and I know that's being done already.
11:43:50 So what's the pleasure of council?
11:43:55 >>GWEN MILLER: I think we should vote on it.
11:43:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If I may speak.
11:43:59 This should have been done before all the public input
11:44:02 to the employees were done so that everybody knew what
11:44:04 was happening before, not after.
11:44:07 I'm not here to say anything other than that.
11:44:09 But I had talked to the previous county administrator,
11:44:14 and you got the county, you got the state attorney, and
11:44:20 you got the public defender's office.
11:44:24 Would have had much more power to barring anyone than
11:44:27 just the City of Tampa.
11:44:29 Did not mention the sheriff's office because they are
11:44:31 not in these governing agencies that we discussed.
11:44:33 So I don't know why we didn't go again and speak to the
11:44:39 other governments for one of the largest HMOs --
11:44:44 that's what it would be -- in the area.
11:44:46 I'm not saying that's right or wrong.
11:44:47 I see people anxious to come and speak and whatever.
11:44:50 But let me say this.
11:44:51 I will not vote for this.
11:44:53 I have said it before, I am going to say it again.
11:44:56 If any one of these clinics is outside the city limits.
11:44:59 Government can't service and do everything for
11:45:04 When we are suffering inside the city limits, when
11:45:06 there's more available places for rent than anywhere
11:45:09 else, when we have an unemployment rate of
11:45:11 12-point-some percent, and 5% -- I can't justify that
11:45:19 cost of renting something outside where there's no tax
11:45:25 base return coming back to the city.
11:45:27 Perfectly, inside the city limits you have a lot more
11:45:30 And I can't service everybody.
11:45:32 If 100 people moved to Ocala I am not going to open up
11:45:35 a clinic in Ocala.
11:45:36 So what I am saying is let's understand where we are
11:45:40 Philosophically, I think I'm right.
11:45:43 I can't service everybody wherever they live.
11:45:46 They can come in.
11:45:47 They see football games here.
11:45:49 They see shows.
11:45:50 They see things at the lightning.
11:45:52 They go everywhere.
11:45:53 So to tell me they are not going to go somewhere for
11:45:56 I doubt that very much.
11:45:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I guess my question today is, again,
11:46:01 do we want to continue this to this afternoon?
11:46:03 Mr. Fletcher, I want to raise one question from a legal
11:46:07 Can council pass a motion to prove contingent on a
11:46:10 location that it comes within the boundaries of the
11:46:14 City of Tampa?
11:46:15 Is that possible?
11:46:16 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I don't believe so, Mr. Chairman.
11:46:21 The way the contract is set up, it's actually silent on
11:46:25 where they would be located, the methodology as has
11:46:31 been described to you.
11:46:32 I don't believe we -- we would actually have to go back
11:46:37 and get a commitment from the administration.
11:46:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What I will do then is continue this
11:46:41 item to this afternoon, as the last item of the day.
11:46:44 Can I get a motion to that effect?
11:46:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
11:46:46 >> Second.
11:46:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
11:46:49 Thank you very kindly.
11:46:51 We will come back this afternoon on that item.
11:46:53 Continue it to a dialogue with that.
11:46:58 Item 72.
11:47:00 The persons who applied for the WMBE, are they here,
11:47:07 who applied to serve on the advisory council?
11:47:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
11:47:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have two people?
11:47:15 Come on real quickly, give you a minute each to
11:47:18 introduce yourselves so we can get through with the
11:47:21 >> Good afternoon.
11:47:25 City Council.
11:47:26 My name is Sylvia Brentsmith and I am trying to be a
11:47:31 candidate for chairman -- I'm sorry, inform advisory
11:47:43 For the -- what is it, ethnic?
11:47:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Ethnic, yes.
11:47:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: WMBE, I think it is.
11:47:53 Go ahead.
11:47:54 Is that it?
11:47:55 >> I am a Hillsborough County school diet counselor,
11:48:01 and I have a large amount of experience working with
11:48:03 the public as well as working with other advisory
11:48:08 And I think it's important to have a lot of experience
11:48:13 in what you say as far as for the community as well as
11:48:19 the population, explore other races of people.
11:48:27 >> thank you.
11:48:31 Are you still teaching in the public school system?
11:48:34 >> I'm guidance counselor, progress village.
11:48:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Progress village.
11:48:38 Thank you.
11:48:40 Next speaker.
11:48:40 >> Good afternoon, Chairman Scott, members of the City
11:48:47 My name is Jerry Mason. I'm here for the appointment
11:48:55 for the equal business opportunity advisory committee.
11:48:58 Currently involved with the Chamber of Commerce, with
11:49:00 the City of Tampa chamber and of the chair of the
11:49:04 minority business consortium.
11:49:06 I'm here hopefully to be selected for that committee to
11:49:09 provide support, advice, whatever we need to do to open
11:49:14 up the doors for small business, and to be able to
11:49:18 provide those type of opportunities which are some of
11:49:21 the things we have been able to achieve this year with
11:49:23 the chamber.
11:49:24 So I'm very excited about the opportunity.
11:49:29 Juan Davis, a member here in East Tampa and small
11:49:32 business owner, contacted me, and been involved here
11:49:35 with the city, grew up here with the city, Robles Park
11:49:39 projects, have been in banking for 21 years, so we have
11:49:43 been able to achieve a lot of things by being able to
11:49:45 provide the type of voice or support, once again very
11:49:49 excited to be here to talk about that and be able to
11:49:53 provide that type of advice if needed.
11:49:56 Thank you all for your time.
11:49:57 >> Thank you, sir.
11:49:58 Next speaker.
11:50:02 >> Good afternoon.
11:50:03 My name is Kim thresher.
11:50:05 I work for thresher PA as an attorney here in the City
11:50:08 of Tampa.
11:50:09 I would like to be appointed to the equal business
11:50:11 opportunity advisory council.
11:50:13 I am currently on the Nuisance Abatement Board for the
11:50:17 county, and also involved in several chamber
11:50:19 committees, and then several committees at my son's
11:50:23 elementary school in South Tampa.
11:50:27 As a woman, and as an employee of a small business in
11:50:32 Tampa, I certainly am aware of the issues of small
11:50:34 businesses and minorities in the Tampa area, and I
11:50:37 think I have the experience, the expertise and the
11:50:41 knowledge to be a beneficial part of this council.
11:50:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
11:50:47 The clerk is going to give us direction.
11:50:53 We have two commissioners --
11:50:56 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Two positions, madam clerk?
11:50:58 >> Two positions and one qualify.
11:51:02 And the winner is?
11:51:18 While she's counting that let's move to the next item.
11:51:20 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, I'm sorry.
11:51:26 Just to bring back number 65, that passed while Mr.
11:51:31 Fletcher was out of the room.
11:51:33 Did you want to move that to the afternoon, number 65?
11:51:37 >> Yes, we'll take that up this afternoon.
11:51:39 That's fine.
11:51:39 65 we'll just take up this afternoon.
11:51:42 We have a motion.
11:51:44 Moved and seconded.
11:51:45 All in favor?
11:51:47 Item 73 is a vacating.
11:51:52 Is that right?
11:51:53 Can we do that real quick?
11:51:55 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Item 73 and 74 require witnesses to
11:52:08 be sworn.
11:52:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: If you have not been sworn, pleas
11:52:11 stand at this time.
11:52:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 73 or 74.
11:52:14 If you are going to speak.
11:52:15 (Oath administered by Clerk)
11:52:26 >>BARBARA LYNCH: Land Development Coordination.
11:52:30 C-10-12 is a vacating an alley in East Tampa and I have
11:52:34 a map for the Elmo.
11:52:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here in opposition to this
11:52:38 vacating? Anyone in opposition to this vacating in
11:52:41 East Tampa?
11:52:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
11:52:43 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Second.
11:52:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
11:52:49 Councilwoman Miller?
11:52:51 >>GWEN MILLER: An ordinance for first reading, an
11:52:53 ordinance vacating, closing, discontinuing, abandoning
11:52:55 certain rights-of-way, alleyway lying south of 18th
11:52:58 Avenue north interstate highway 4 east of cord street
11:53:02 and west of 46th street in Oak Park subdivision, a
11:53:05 subdivision in the City of Tampa, Hillsborough County
11:53:08 Florida the same being more fully described in section
11:53:10 2 hereof subject to certain easements, covenants,
11:53:13 conditions and restrictions as more particularly
11:53:15 described herein providing an effective date.
11:53:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's been moved and seconded by
11:53:18 councilman Miranda.
11:53:19 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:53:22 >>THE CLERK: Second reading and adoption will be held
11:53:25 on November 4, 2010 at 9:30 a.m.
11:53:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 74.
11:53:30 Let me just say, I will say this now, about 10 till,
11:53:33 Councilwoman Capin has to leave at 12.
11:53:36 Is that right?
11:53:36 Has to leave at 12.
11:53:38 We also need to cure a procedural issue, council.
11:53:42 Let's deal with that first.
11:53:43 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Also, Mr. Chairman, just to remind
11:53:46 council, I will not be here for the afternoon.
11:53:50 Mr. Tore right oh will be covering for me.
11:53:54 If we can put this in a posture for this afternoon.
11:53:58 And Mr. Weaver is present.
11:53:59 I have had an opportunity to discuss with him what the
11:54:01 issues are.
11:54:01 Council, this is brought to you on a motion for
11:54:15 As you know under Robert's Rules of Order, which, by
11:54:17 the way, shall govern the proceedings of City Council
11:54:19 in all cases provided -- not provided by your own
11:54:21 rules, a motion to reconsider brings back the original
11:54:25 motion that was on the table for consideration
11:54:32 originally and that was a motion to deny.
11:54:34 Now this being a quasi-judicial hearing I am concerned
11:54:38 about a burden shifting issue.
11:54:40 I don't want council to be in a position with a motion
11:54:43 to deny and the petitioner having to go into this
11:54:45 hearing with that motion on the floor.
11:54:48 That being the case, Robert's Rules of Order
11:54:50 specifically does not allow a motion to rescind when
11:54:55 something is brought back on a motion to reconsider.
11:54:57 My request of City Council, therefore, is to make a
11:55:00 motion to waive the rules and then once doing so, then
11:55:05 rescind the motion that is on the table so that you
11:55:08 will begin the public hearing with no motion, you will
11:55:12 hear it in its entirety and then make whatever
11:55:15 appropriate motion that council feels necessary.
11:55:17 So the two actions I request a motion to waive the
11:55:20 rules to allow a motion to rescind, and I would ask Mr.
11:55:24 Weaver, do you have any objection to this?
11:55:27 >> Ron Weaver, 401 East Jackson Street, no objection.
11:55:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: With no motion on the table.
11:55:35 In order to do so you have to waive the rules because
11:55:37 Robert's Rules of Order will not allow specifically
11:55:39 what I am asking you to do.
11:55:40 >>GWEN MILLER: I waive the rules to rescind the first
11:55:44 >> Second.
11:55:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It would be two separate motions, a
11:55:48 motion to waive your rules.
11:55:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion to waive the rules.
11:55:52 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm sorry to say that I didn't
11:55:54 understand that.
11:55:55 Why can we not just reconsider the denial?
11:56:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Because of legal issues that have
11:56:06 required this council, very unusual circumstances, to
11:56:11 have to hear this as a sec reading all over again.
11:56:16 It would be inappropriate because it's a quasi-judicial
11:56:19 hearing, and there are certain burdens that have to be
11:56:22 met to require the petitioner to be in a position at
11:56:26 the end of the hearing for the attorney to say to
11:56:28 council, if you are in favor of denying this hearing
11:56:33 vote yes, and that is a very difficult position to be
11:56:37 In-- it better to have it if you are going to be
11:56:40 hearing as a new public hearing to have no motion on
11:56:42 the table and have it heard clean.
11:56:44 And whatever motion gets made is the motion that will
11:56:47 be presented to council.
11:56:48 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't understand, you are saying
11:56:55 denying the hearing.
11:56:56 Aren't we reconsidering our vote on the petition?
11:57:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: No, you are doing more than that.
11:57:03 You are doing that because of legal issues that require
11:57:05 you to hear this as a second reading and adoption
11:57:08 public hearing all over again.
11:57:09 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay, okay, I get it.
11:57:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion.
11:57:13 Is there a second?
11:57:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
11:57:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And the motion is to waive the rules.
11:57:17 Moved and seconded.
11:57:19 All in favor?
11:57:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And now a motion then to rescind the
11:57:23 motion that is on the table.
11:57:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
11:57:27 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: So moved.
11:57:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
11:57:29 Moved by councilman Miranda, seconded by councilman
11:57:34 The motion on the table to deny.
11:57:36 Moved and second.
11:57:36 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
11:57:39 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you, City Council.
11:57:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So we start the process all over
11:57:47 The problem we have now is councilman Capin has to
11:57:49 leave at 12:00.
11:57:50 Is that right?
11:57:51 The question to the petitioner, to pick this up at
11:57:59 Because she has to leave.
11:58:00 And an appointment and be back at 1:30.
11:58:08 >> Ron Weaver, 401 East Jackson Street.
11:58:11 So we will have all seven present at 1:30, and we only
11:58:14 have six in about five minutes?
11:58:16 Is that what is being asked?
11:58:18 Let me ask my client.
11:58:29 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11:58:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 1:30.
11:58:31 Now, in deference to those who may be in opposition,
11:58:36 and you cannot come back, do you want to speak now to
11:58:44 Anyone from the public who may be in opposition who
11:58:46 cannot come back?
11:58:47 You may want to speak to council now relative to this
11:58:52 I'm assuming everybody can come back.
11:58:54 Is that right?
11:58:56 >> May I ask the same of my people?
11:58:58 Anyone who wants to speak now instead of 1:30?
11:59:03 One person, yes, sir.
11:59:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Sir, sir, you may come.
11:59:12 And I'm only doing this because I recognize that we
11:59:15 have been hear all morning, and you have been here,
11:59:17 some of you may not be able to come back so I want to
11:59:20 be fair to everybody.
11:59:21 >>> I am Chris Gannon, 1707 Watrous, and I am in favor
11:59:28 of Mangroves continuing.
11:59:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:59:34 Thank you, sir.
11:59:34 >> Jerry loud.
11:59:37 Thank you for the time.
11:59:38 This afternoon I won't be able to come back.
11:59:40 I'm a business partner and resident of the Mangroves.
11:59:44 I want to speak highly on behalf of what they brought
11:59:47 to our neighborhood and our community, that a lot of me
11:59:53 following this process is felt reactionary to a couple
11:59:55 of establishments that do bring problems into our
11:59:59 neighborhood, you know, with allowing the late-night
12:00:06 drinking and pay one fee and drink as much as you like,
12:00:10 the parking issues and all of that.
12:00:12 Mangroves has Nevada been a part of not wanting to
12:00:14 address those issues, even directly.
12:00:17 They have been involved with our neighborhood
12:00:18 association meetings.
12:00:20 They have come to us with solutions.
12:00:23 Two years ago when I had to approach them about an
12:00:25 issue related to the business that I'm a partner of,
12:00:29 they immediately responded with setting up improved
12:00:33 valet service, limiting the noise, and having security
12:00:37 on hand.
12:00:39 There's there are huge benefits to the small businesses
12:00:43 as well as the residents that want to have an
12:00:44 establishment to go and enjoy fine dining as well as
12:00:47 have business meetings after work for happy hour, or
12:00:51 just to socialize in a mature and well-run area.
12:00:56 So I would ask that you strongly consider the fact that
12:01:00 we need to address the problems in the neighborhood,
12:01:02 and Mangroves has never been one of those
12:01:05 establishments, that the neighborhood are concerned
12:01:11 Thank you.
12:01:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
12:01:13 Thank you very much.
12:01:23 Oh, yes, I'm sorry.
12:01:24 >>THE CLERK: Shirley Foxx-Knowles, city clerk.
12:01:29 The individual selected for the equal business
12:01:32 opportunity advisory council for at-large is Mr. Jerry
12:01:39 mason, and for ethnic minority is Ms. Sylvia Belcher
12:01:48 >> We will pick up at 1:30.
12:01:49 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, I'm sorry.
12:01:51 If you could make a motion then to ratify that decision
12:01:54 and direct me for the November 4th meeting to bring
12:01:57 back a resolution.
12:01:58 >> So moved.
12:02:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Capin.
12:02:04 All in favor?
12:02:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Also a formal motion to continue the
12:02:08 hearing on number 74 to 1:30 in the afternoon.
12:02:10 >>GWEN MILLER: So moved.
12:02:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
12:02:13 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a question on this, I guess
12:02:16 it's for the clerk, and for legal.
12:02:18 When we come back with number 74 we are hearing it on
12:02:28 second reading, like déjà vu.
12:02:51 Oh, I'm sorry.
12:02:52 Thank you.
12:02:53 Sorry about that.
12:02:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.
12:03:01 1:30 we will pick up with item 74.
12:03:04 We stand in recess till 1:30.
12:03:06 Thank you very much.
13:30:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come to
13:33:34 We'll have roll call.
13:33:35 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
13:33:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
13:33:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
13:33:41 >>CURTIS STOKES: Here.
13:33:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
13:33:44 We have three items of that we need to continue,
13:33:47 So what I would like to do is just get those out of the
13:33:51 Item 76 there is a request for continuance.
13:33:55 Is the applicant here?
13:33:56 >>THE CLERK: You will need to open your public
13:34:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to open the public hearing 75
13:34:02 through 84.
13:34:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Second.
13:34:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
13:34:07 Item 76 to continue?
13:34:11 >> We are respectfully requesting that be continued to
13:34:14 November 4th.
13:34:15 >>GWEN MILLER: So moved.
13:34:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public wish to address
13:34:19 council on this continuance?
13:34:20 It been moved and sec.
13:34:22 All in favor?
13:34:25 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Thank you.
13:34:27 >>THE CLERK: That would be at 1:30?
13:34:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, 1:30. Item 79.
13:34:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to have -- move to remove 79
13:34:43 from the agenda.
13:34:43 >> Second.
13:34:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
13:34:46 Then 84 is a request for continuance because the record
13:34:51 was not completed.
13:34:52 Is that right?
13:35:00 We have to continue it anyway because not a complete
13:35:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion to continue.
13:35:05 >>THE CLERK: We are recommending December 2nd.
13:35:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's say 10:30.
13:35:17 10:30 moved and second.
13:35:19 Moved by councilman Mulhern, seconded by councilman
13:35:23 All in favor?
13:35:30 I believe that's most of the items we need to deal
13:35:32 we've in terms of continuance, is that right?
13:35:36 We are going to come back and deal we've that at the
13:35:38 end of the day.
13:35:38 Let's deal we've this item here that's before us.
13:35:42 Item 74.
13:35:45 Have the petitioner come forward at this time.
13:35:48 Does staff want to bring us up to date?
13:35:50 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land Development Coordination.
13:36:02 Staff doesn't typically give full presentation on the
13:36:06 second reading.
13:36:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No, you don't have to.
13:36:09 I wanted to know if you wanted to add anything.
13:36:11 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Per the first reading there were
13:36:14 conditions placed on the site plans and those site
13:36:16 plans an those conditions have been certified by the
13:36:18 zoning administrator.
13:36:19 I do have those plans, if you would like to review
13:36:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
13:36:30 Ron Weaver, 401 East Jackson Street, attorney for the
13:36:35 We are grateful to you for your patience and your time
13:36:37 and your letting us come back at 1:30.
13:36:41 This application is for one little thing, and it is for
13:36:46 First of all, we are not changing from a 4(COP-R) to a
13:36:51 4(COP-X) to have any effect on any of the six parts of
13:36:57 your code and how you handle alcoholic beverage, number
13:37:00 We are not changing the distance in specified uses.
13:37:02 That's remaining the same and the 4(COP-X) as the
13:37:07 The type of alcohol beer, wine and liquor is not
13:37:10 changing, from 4(COP-R) to 4(COP-X).
13:37:13 We are not changing the hours of operation by one
13:37:16 We are not intensifying, not increasing any additional
13:37:19 Number four, area of consumption is remaining the same.
13:37:22 Number five, package sales, there's none under the
13:37:26 4(COP-R) and there will be none under the 4(COP-X).
13:37:29 Size of the wet zoned areas, no change.
13:37:31 Therefore it is only the 51% food reporting requirement
13:37:35 which you heard from numerous experts in the subject of
13:37:39 this economy and the subject of the nature of the
13:37:41 business in this recession.
13:37:43 The request has been determined to not be an
13:37:46 intensification of the special use.
13:37:47 The conditions voluntarily offered by the applicant are
13:37:49 not to mitigate impact but to ensure the public that
13:37:53 they are committed to continue to operate in a
13:37:55 responsible manner as mangroves bar and grill has for
13:37:59 over 14 years.
13:38:00 We are not creating a precedent.
13:38:02 The application is heard on its own merits.
13:38:05 Since it is not an intensification under rule 27-269,
13:38:08 the standings have been determined to be met and based
13:38:11 on the existing approval.
13:38:12 The three conditions as indicated on page 13 of the
13:38:16 August 26th transcript are enforceable, number one,
13:38:20 the business shall offer full course meals consisting
13:38:23 of salads, vegetables and entrees during all hours that
13:38:28 alcoholic beverages are served.
13:38:29 Number two, of the enforceable conditions according to
13:38:32 the August transcript, security licensed by the State
13:38:36 of Florida, not just any security but any security
13:38:38 licensed by the State of Florida shall be provided to
13:38:40 commencing at 10 p.m. until one hour after closing on
13:38:43 those dates the business is open after mid nature.
13:38:45 Assurances in all cases, I repeat, security license by
13:38:49 the State of Florida shall be provided, and this is one
13:38:52 of the enforceable conditions,en commencing at 10 p.m.
13:38:56 until one hour after closing on all days the business
13:38:58 is open after midnight.
13:39:00 Number three, no live bands shall be permitted in the
13:39:03 Pa owe and patio doors are shall not be left open when
13:39:06 a band is on and these are enforceable provisions.
13:39:11 Over 14 years the million visitors as the responsible,
13:39:14 one, in the neighborhood that has been an influence and
13:39:16 example to all others in the neighborhood has for 14
13:39:19 years had not one underage violation.
13:39:24 I quote the police department.
13:39:25 The district comments, the district has no objection to
13:39:27 this request, and in fact, if I may, am I putting words
13:39:32 in your mouth, officer Miller?
13:39:34 >> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police department.
13:39:39 I have been sworn.
13:39:42 My report stands.
13:39:43 I would like to make some clarifications.
13:39:45 At no time was there any underage or arrest 9/11
13:39:49 Mangroves, not by myself or any other undercover
13:39:53 officer in the last three years.
13:39:57 I would like to clarify that for the record, in all
13:40:01 fairness, and that's it.
13:40:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
13:40:06 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: May I ask officer Miller?
13:40:12 Can you tell me about the felony that occurred on that
13:40:15 report that had some 96 calls?
13:40:19 >> Some of the felonies?
13:40:21 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: There was one felony there.
13:40:24 >> We had an aggravated assault there.
13:40:31 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I think I discussed it with you.
13:40:33 There where somebody threw something from the
13:40:38 apartments over to Mangroves?
13:40:41 >> Right.
13:40:42 That's the only one I know of.
13:40:43 >> That's the only one that was on the report, right.
13:40:45 >> Correct.
13:40:47 Thank you.
13:40:55 >> The impacts are alcoholic beverage sales but this
13:40:59 has been found consistent, an not adverse to the public
13:41:04 health and safety of the City of Tampa or any of these
13:41:07 Based upon a comparison of the existing approval versus
13:41:09 the request, it is clear there are no additional
13:41:11 adverse impacts or changes related to the request.
13:41:14 The subject request is not does not set a precedent
13:41:16 since each petition is on its own merits.
13:41:21 Number four, regarding enforceability of conditions and
13:41:24 concerns raised in prior hearings the conditions and
13:41:26 special use are enforceable confirmed by your city
13:41:29 attorney's office on page 13 of the August 26th
13:41:32 Violation of the conditions can result in revocation of
13:41:34 the special use according to that very tough language,
13:41:39 about the toughest he have seen that you put in during
13:41:42 our last hearing.
13:41:43 Finally police reports confirm there is no underage
13:41:46 violation and not one underage drinking violation, with
13:41:50 the highest letter of consent in 14 years of excellent
13:41:53 operation by the Mangroves with this commendation.
13:41:55 We have about a 60 local owners and 120 residents
13:41:59 within five blocks that put the red dots brought before
13:42:03 you, and made part of the record with Ms. Knolls at the
13:42:06 last meeting, it is 120 people who live within five
13:42:12 blocks who indicated support for this request.
13:42:14 Please keep the 14-year tradition of Mangroves, one of
13:42:17 the good behaviors, still in business in then
13:42:21 Grant one little thing, not the six things I read at
13:42:24 the beginning which we are not seeking to change, they
13:42:26 stay just like they are.
13:42:28 Please let us stay in business.
13:42:31 One last thing.
13:42:32 And that is this.
13:42:33 Regardless of what the last five summary points are,
13:42:35 they didn't have five points.
13:42:37 They had four words.
13:42:38 This is our life.
13:42:39 And it is.
13:42:40 Thank you.
13:42:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me say this.
13:42:44 If there is no change to all these things, what are we
13:42:46 doing here?
13:42:47 >> The 51% reporting requirements, sir.
13:42:50 >> Uh-huh.
13:42:52 That's the little one you are talking about, one little
13:42:54 >> I apologize, it's not little, it's big the 51% food
13:42:59 but we offered to do 25% anyway.
13:43:02 >> Let me ask another question.
13:43:03 >> Certainly, sir.
13:43:04 >> If you were to be given what you are asking for, do
13:43:07 you have to sell any food at all?
13:43:11 >> When it's open --
13:43:12 >> I'm speaking, sir, please.
13:43:15 I stayed very quiet when you were speaking.
13:43:17 You were addressing the Mike.
13:43:18 I apologize if I interrupt you at any one time.
13:43:22 Do you have to sell any food at all?
13:43:25 Yes or no?
13:43:26 Don't tell me that you have a paper to submit because I
13:43:30 can't enforce that.
13:43:31 Tell me yes or no.
13:43:32 Do you have to sell one morsel of rice?
13:43:39 >> No one will buy, the kitchen must be open.
13:43:43 >> I didn't ask you that.
13:43:45 You sound like you're running for office.
13:43:46 >> I'm not.
13:43:53 >> We ain't going to be in business.
13:44:11 We have to stay open -- that's pretty detailed.
13:44:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions by council?
13:44:21 All right.
13:44:22 This is a public hearing.
13:44:23 Anyone from the public wish to address council?
13:44:25 Anyone from the public?
13:44:27 All the pros to my left, if you are for this stand to
13:44:30 my left.
13:44:31 Those who are against, opposed to my right. To my
13:44:34 right if you are against this.
13:44:35 To my right, which is your left.
13:44:51 Those in opposition to my right and your left.
13:45:15 Mr. Weaver, may I suggest something to you, sir?
13:45:18 >> Consolidate and only a few speakers?
13:45:20 Consolidate and not repeat everything said and maybe
13:45:23 one or two minutes instead of three, and we would
13:45:25 appreciate if you give one or two minutes back, if you
13:45:29 If you can't, it's a public hearing.
13:45:31 Thank you, sir.
13:45:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
13:45:33 It is a public hearing.
13:45:36 But I'm just saying if you don't have to use the full
13:45:39 three minutes we appreciate that in consolidating some
13:45:44 of the testimony.
13:45:44 We don't need to hear the same testimony about 30
13:45:47 times, you know.
13:45:53 >> David boarding, 308 south west.
13:45:57 The first time we came I brought 28 petitions including
13:46:00 myself, 29, that are residents of Oscawana, not the
13:46:04 members of Oscawana but residents that fully support
13:46:08 Mangroves 4(COP-X).
13:46:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
13:46:14 Next speaker to my right.
13:46:39 >> My name is Mike eustic, 305 south Melville Avenue.
13:46:46 Everyone here is in favor of Mangroves remaining a
13:46:50 vital part of the SoHo district.
13:46:51 The difference, though, is in which method this will be
13:46:55 It is clear that the bars in the area are having a
13:46:57 negative impact on legitimate restaurants.
13:47:01 We are in a situation because of all the variances,
13:47:04 waivers and rezoning requests that City Council has
13:47:06 previously approved, and here we stand with yet another
13:47:09 one before us.
13:47:11 When will the cycle end?
13:47:13 Mangroves is claiming that the only way that they can
13:47:15 stay in business is to change their zoning.
13:47:17 This makes absolutely no sense to me.
13:47:19 In other words, the only way you can continue competing
13:47:21 with the bars is to become one?
13:47:24 Although their intentions may be honorable there is
13:47:26 absolutely no guarantee that once they receive a
13:47:28 4(COP-X) that they will remain in business.
13:47:31 It does however guarantee that a bar or club will
13:47:34 undoubtedly open if this property is sold or leased.
13:47:37 Keep in mind you are zoning the property, not the
13:47:40 It's obvious Mangroves has a loyal customer base and
13:47:45 effective marketing skills.
13:47:46 I suggest they tap into these resources.
13:47:49 A 4(COP-X) is not the answer.
13:47:51 The handouts you received show the classification for
13:47:53 the establishments in SoHo.
13:47:55 Again this is the only one with a 4(COP-X).
13:48:00 Also the underlying reason this neighborhood has become
13:48:03 what it is.
13:48:04 Adding another 4(COP-X) would be suicide for this
13:48:08 Here is the police activity for a two-year period,
13:48:13 several restaurants in the two blocks near Mangroves.
13:48:16 43 calls to MacDinton's.
13:48:20 Three to TC Choy.
13:48:25 Four to SoHo and to Mangroves.
13:48:32 There are 17 shy at MacDinton's.
13:48:39 Several calls, noise violation does not appear on this
13:48:41 list nor does the one where they received a violation.
13:48:46 The I'm not trying to trash Mangroves.
13:48:50 I truly want them to stay in SoHo.
13:48:52 My point is we have already had issues with this
13:48:54 establishment in the past.
13:48:56 Seems as though that the more alcohol sells are
13:48:58 involved the greater the potential for problems.
13:49:01 Eliminating the exist 51-49% will only increase alcohol
13:49:05 related problems and change the dynamics of what
13:49:08 constitutes a legitimate restaurant and what's a bar.
13:49:10 Chairman Scott made a good point regarding legitimate
13:49:14 Granting this request by its very nature changes the
13:49:16 definition of what a restaurant is.
13:49:20 There is a process underway of coming up with
13:49:22 guidelines of regulating the bars and restaurants in
13:49:25 Until this process is completed and implemented, I
13:49:27 believe a moratorium on future rezoning is in order.
13:49:31 The residents in this area have been very vocal about
13:49:33 not wanting any more bars.
13:49:35 The 4(COP-X) zoning is another bar.
13:49:39 Please reaffirm your earlier decision and deny this
13:49:42 Thank you.
13:49:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker to my left.
13:49:49 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Excuse me, when you brought that up,
13:49:51 because that's something I requested at another
13:49:56 The information you brought up here.
13:49:58 And I need to clarify something.
13:50:00 When you look at the police reports, I was told by
13:50:08 Cathy Coyle that, for instance, I just saw one that
13:50:14 said hit and run, twice.
13:50:17 What happens is when the police come -- and then Mr.
13:50:20 Miller might be able to come up here and say -- the way
13:50:23 I understand it is when they come for an incident and
13:50:26 the accident is in front, on the street, of the closest
13:50:31 establishment gets the report.
13:50:34 So it's not necessarily that they are all being called,
13:50:38 that all of these pertain to each establishment.
13:50:42 I was told -- I'm not sure, but it's the closest
13:50:47 southwest to the closest establishment southwest of
13:50:53 where the accident happened.
13:50:55 So when these calls are here, just to clarify it,
13:50:59 because I was looking at it, and I said there's hit and
13:51:02 run accidents in these establishments?
13:51:05 And that's how it was explained to me.
13:51:07 So I just want to make that clear, when you see those
13:51:10 on all of them, not just, you know, not just the
13:51:14 applicant that's before us.
13:51:15 But there are several restaurants in here that you
13:51:19 You also said no more bars.
13:51:25 I hate to differ with you, but they may act like bars,
13:51:30 but they are not bars, not by their classification.
13:51:36 That's just another clarification.
13:51:39 Thank you.
13:51:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
13:51:43 >> Good afternoon.
13:51:46 My name is Dean Newsome, a home owner in Tampa, a human
13:51:52 resources consultant independently, and I have a Ph.D.
13:51:58 I don't have a long list of facts to give you.
13:52:01 I can only really speak from my heart.
13:52:04 Seven and a half years ago I joined an organization
13:52:06 called merge Tampa and at that time the city was
13:52:11 struggling with losing a lot of young professionals and
13:52:14 they wanted to know what can we do as a city to make
13:52:17 things better.
13:52:18 One of the things that was clearly identified was the
13:52:20 downtown area was not vibrant so over a period of seven
13:52:24 to eight years the City of Tampa put a lot of resources
13:52:26 into building up the downtown and of course that
13:52:30 includes bars and restaurants and places to live.
13:52:32 When I first moved to Tampa in 1997 most of my friends
13:52:37 would not go to the Hyde Park area.
13:52:39 One of the things that the residents failed to realize
13:52:42 is you have to take the good with the bad.
13:52:44 Places like Mangroves make South Tampa an ideal place
13:52:47 to live.
13:52:48 And when you have such high demand for a place you can
13:52:51 rent a one bedroom for about $1,000.
13:52:54 It's because of places like Mangroves.
13:52:56 People know if you can walk to places, walk to
13:53:00 restaurants, walk to bars.
13:53:01 If you look at most major cities across the United
13:53:03 States that are doing well, New York City,
13:53:06 San Francisco, you have establishments such as
13:53:08 Mangroves that support the local economy.
13:53:10 I recently saw a commercial on TV that said for every
13:53:16 85 visitors that come to Florida, to Tampa, creates one
13:53:19 new job.
13:53:20 Places like Mangroves encourage people to come visit.
13:53:23 They know there's going to be something here for them
13:53:25 to do.
13:53:27 And friends talk rightly about the South Tampa area.
13:53:31 Now, we are not here debating Roe vs. Wade or brown
13:53:35 versus the board of education or the merits of don't
13:53:37 ask don't tell.
13:53:38 We are talking about a little bar in the world that
13:53:41 wants to stay in business when every day we have
13:53:45 businesses that are closing, and you have an easy
13:53:47 choice to make.
13:53:50 To be able to help and that's all we need.
13:53:53 I believe the residents in that area will probably
13:53:55 oppose any type of change like they do with the lime,
13:53:59 but of course there's now a lawsuit because the council
13:54:02 chose till two.
13:54:04 For the most part Mangroves is busy on a Friday night.
13:54:07 All the other days of the week it's fairly quiet.
13:54:09 Their dinner ends around 10:00.
13:54:11 But we are essentially talking about plans that may or
13:54:14 may not happen around one night of the week where you
13:54:17 have a place that has up to 250 or so people.
13:54:19 From a personal perspective, I would rather not go to
13:54:22 Mangroves on a Friday night because I would rather do
13:54:26 it at a more quiet place but that doesn't mean we
13:54:29 should punish everyone else who enjoys the
13:54:31 establishment for preferences that other people might
13:54:34 So I encourage you to step outside of what business was
13:54:39 like 20 or 30 years ago, whether because of the change
13:54:41 in business environment we should allow offshore
13:54:43 drilling or not.
13:54:44 We are not talking about those big issues.
13:54:46 We are talking about one choice that can help a bar, a
13:54:49 small business, stay in business.
13:54:51 Thank you for your time.
13:54:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
13:55:00 >> That's a broad act to follow.
13:55:04 My name is Paula, another one of the usual suspects.
13:55:09 I have been sworn and I have resided at 308 south
13:55:12 Albany since 1989.
13:55:14 At that time the perception of SoHo was Dowdy,
13:55:20 transvestites, crack houses, all of these negative
13:55:24 It's been wonderful to live in a vibrant community.
13:55:27 One of the most compelling advertising campaigns the
13:55:31 last 30 years was the rolling stones campaign of
13:55:34 perceptions versus reality.
13:55:37 For years, SoHo was known as restaurant row.
13:55:41 Technically that is still the reality.
13:55:44 However, the perception is borrow.
13:55:48 And this was borne out last Friday with the city times
13:55:56 Friday section.
13:55:59 Another beer bar joint mix, an unforgiving stretch of
13:56:11 competing pubs and other businesses.
13:56:16 The article discusses the need to drive more business
13:56:20 to support all of the bars in the SoHo area.
13:56:24 And these are perceived as bars.
13:56:28 The drive is there, because people love to come out to
13:56:31 party areas.
13:56:32 But the perception is going to ruin the overall mix of
13:56:35 the neighborhood.
13:56:40 Last month at a very good vibrant community meeting
13:56:42 that Councilwoman Capin held at the Kate Jackson
13:56:45 center, she mentioned that late night drive through our
13:56:49 area she's encouraged by seeing people walking home.
13:56:52 It is good to be able to walk to places that we want.
13:56:55 However, the people walking home after 1:00, 2:00, 3:00
13:57:01 in the morning are not couples going back to the
13:57:05 babysitter and return to their bungalows and their
13:57:08 homes in Palma Ceia and Hyde Park.
13:57:10 They are primarily university of Tampa students who are
13:57:15 still of the age that I used to be when I could party
13:57:18 all night long, carousing their way through the
13:57:20 neighborhood, laughing and enjoying themselves, cutting
13:57:24 up, disturbing other people's lives.
13:57:28 Mangroves is known as a restaurant.
13:57:32 However, examiner.com, which is a national Web site
13:57:42 with local coverage, this is from Mangroves South
13:57:47 If you are looking for an upscale club, Mangroves is in
13:57:51 the SoHo district of South Tampa is the place for you.
13:57:54 During the day, this venue is a full service
13:57:58 By night it's a party theme for South Tampa night owls.
13:58:04 This nightclub has a more sophisticated feel.
13:58:09 Drinks are relatively inexpensive.
13:58:12 The perception differs from the reality.
13:58:17 We as residents want mixed use.
13:58:20 We love the vibrancy that has come to this part of
13:58:24 We want balanced mixed use.
13:58:27 And balanced means not a preponderance of drinking
13:58:31 It means offices, complexes, residents, a vibrant
13:58:37 And I again urge you to deny the petitioner's request
13:58:40 because this will tip the balance in the wrong
13:58:43 (Bell sounds).
13:58:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
13:58:45 Next speaker.
13:58:53 >> Jonathan Michael Coleman, south Audubon Avenue.
13:58:58 I have been sworn in.
13:59:01 I got a chance to speak in front of you all last
13:59:03 Thursday at the workshop.
13:59:05 I spoke on the young professionals in the area, how
13:59:10 Mangroves has been key in my opinion and other
13:59:15 neighbors and friends who went into the area and then
13:59:19 bought in the area.
13:59:23 There aren't enough places to go with this type of
13:59:27 The article that she was reading from the Web site,
13:59:30 they described it very well, but at the same time it
13:59:34 doesn't mention all the business functions that go on,
13:59:37 that bring people like myself.
13:59:43 All of you all would fit right in at Mangroves.
13:59:46 Most every night of the week depending on what time you
13:59:49 I wouldn't expect to see you all there very late at
13:59:53 I also don't stay very late at night anymore.
13:59:55 I'm usually home by about midnight.
13:59:57 But it is a place where everybody can go and have a
14:00:00 good time, and that is building the area here; to
14:00:06 continue to grow, and if there's only one place on
14:00:16 Howard now that has an X, Mangroves is committed to
14:00:20 leaving their first class kitchen open and trying to
14:00:22 serve food that people like yourselves and I want to
14:00:25 buy and eat.
14:00:27 And so the later hours of the night, not just later
14:00:30 hours, like they don't want to be just serving alcohol.
14:00:34 The restaurant -- they want to come in and wine and
14:00:40 dine their friends and have people in there that want
14:00:43 more than just alcohol.
14:00:45 And if they are able to make enough money in order to
14:00:48 survive paying the rent on Howard by serving alcohol
14:00:54 and needing a little help instead of 49%, 25, whether
14:00:59 that's enforceable or not, they are committing a lot of
14:01:01 money to pay and keep people serving food and making
14:01:05 And they are doing it openly and honestly.
14:01:09 They are coming to you and saying, we understand that
14:01:12 we are on the verge of not meeting our requirements.
14:01:15 How many other restaurants are coming here and making
14:01:18 that request and saying, you know, look at our
14:01:21 situation, look at our clientele, look at who we appeal
14:01:26 to, look who we invite to the area 14 years ago and
14:01:30 started building that bad neighbor neighborhood that
14:01:33 the last speaker was talking about.
14:01:36 I can relate to that.
14:01:37 I hope you all can relate to that.
14:01:38 They came in and said, we see it's not the perfect area
14:01:43 but we see it as potential, and they literally bridged
14:01:46 the south of Swann by bringing in the same type of
14:01:50 people that they want to continue bringing in.
14:01:53 I urge you all consider making the area a 21 and up
14:01:57 crowd if the other restaurants are acting too much
14:02:01 bars, it is 18-year-olds that might be causing the
14:02:05 And that's something I would ask you all to not punish
14:02:09 them because they need a little bit of help.
14:02:16 I appreciate you all's time.
14:02:18 And I am not envious of the decision you have to make
14:02:22 and I appreciate you all doing this.
14:02:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
14:02:26 Next speaker.
14:02:26 >> My name is April Black.
14:02:31 I live in the neighborhood.
14:02:32 And by the neighborhood I mean the Courier City
14:02:35 Oscawana neighborhood.
14:02:37 That's Kennedy to Swann, Armenia to the railroad
14:02:41 So it's a small neighborhood.
14:02:44 We come together quarterly and have meetings, and we
14:02:49 are invest in the neighborhood.
14:02:51 We all know that the zoning change is a big investment
14:02:53 for Mangroves, for the employees of Mangroves.
14:02:58 They have invested quite a bit of time and money into
14:03:01 this investment, and so have we.
14:03:03 One of the things that I wanted to point out, it's come
14:03:07 up in a couple of different conversations.
14:03:09 I think this is the fifth one we have had, that there
14:03:13 have always been bars.
14:03:17 Well, I moved in in 1976.
14:03:20 My husband was a fireman at the fire house on the
14:03:23 corner of Azeele and Albany.
14:03:25 And so we fell in love with that little house.
14:03:30 This is hard for me.
14:03:32 I want you to know that there have been bars in Hyde
14:03:38 But TC Choy used to be a gas station, and Mangroves
14:03:43 wasn't always there.
14:03:43 It wasn't there in '76.
14:03:45 The Hooker T Company that just moved in that serves
14:03:50 sangria and draft beers, that was a photo lab.
14:03:52 The coin laundry was not an Irish pub back then.
14:03:59 Chief had a mom and pop convenience store on the
14:04:02 It also had offices.
14:04:04 The Bungalow was a doctor's office.
14:04:06 The Deck was a farm store, had dairy.
14:04:12 World of Beers, it was an ice cream place, become a
14:04:17 Chinese place.
14:04:18 MacDinton's was a veterinarian, later became a
14:04:21 restaurant called McCobb's, then the original
14:04:24 MacDinton's which had live music.
14:04:28 All the patrons were inside, not on a deck, not making
14:04:31 noise, not walking all through the neighborhoods.
14:04:36 There was no Yard of Ale.
14:04:40 The Rack was the building that had Carol salad car and
14:04:48 it was not a bar.
14:04:51 The Hyde Park cafe had a small gay bar in it, not the
14:04:55 complex it is today.
14:04:56 Yes, there were bars.
14:04:57 There were three.
14:04:59 There was a little bar by the original Whaley's.
14:05:04 There was a little bar in the building with chief and a
14:05:07 little bar that was The Carrousel where the Hyde Park
14:05:12 People want change.
14:05:13 We like the change that's come.
14:05:15 We like the vibrant neighborhood we live in.
14:05:17 But enough is enough.
14:05:20 It's time to restore the balance.
14:05:23 Each time one of these businesses changed from a
14:05:26 laundromat, a doctor's office, whatever, we came they
14:05:31 came before you and they asked for the change.
14:05:32 It time to say no.
14:05:34 It's time to put your foot down and say you are a
14:05:38 You need to remain a restaurant.
14:05:40 If you need to change your prices or whatever you have
14:05:42 to do to remain a restaurant, that's what you need to
14:05:45 If you have fund-raisers that only require that the
14:05:47 people who come buy alcohol, then it's very, very hard
14:05:50 to maintain that 51-49% balance.
14:05:54 There are things they can do.
14:05:55 There are other restaurants in the neighborhood.
14:05:58 Bungalow is a bar.
14:05:59 It's very popular.
14:06:01 And it's serving a lot of food.
14:06:02 (Bell sounds)
14:06:04 They can, too.
14:06:04 Thank you.
14:06:08 >> Debby Hudson.
14:06:14 I'm one of the owners, and I have been sworn in.
14:06:16 We are asking for zoning today which would allow us to
14:06:18 remain as Mangroves.
14:06:20 This is the only option available to us for our
14:06:24 We are not making our numbers due to the economy.
14:06:27 You already heard that.
14:06:28 But we are a responsible vendor.
14:06:31 We have been in business now for almost 15 years and
14:06:33 have never had a liquor violation.
14:06:35 We have never heavy any kind of violation to do with
14:06:38 We have proven ourselves as responsible business
14:06:41 People come before you every hearing asking for 4(COP),
14:06:46 and you don't know, they say they are one thing and you
14:06:49 don't know what they are going to be.
14:06:50 We have proven ourselves.
14:06:52 You are going to get what you are going to get.
14:06:53 And we are not just a bar.
14:06:56 We are a restaurant.
14:06:57 We serve fine dining food.
14:06:59 We have concierges send people from all over the city
14:07:04 as far away as the Don Cesar.
14:07:06 We are on a one-way street.
14:07:08 We have a lot going against us and I am trying harder
14:07:11 than I ever have with weddings.
14:07:14 Bars don't do weddings.
14:07:15 We are pushing celebrations.
14:07:18 We are catering on-site and off-site.
14:07:23 We have been good in the community.
14:07:25 We have been gad to our neighbors.
14:07:27 We have listened to what our neighbors have to say.
14:07:30 And directly around us we are very friendly with our
14:07:35 I believe that if we had -- if we were involved in the
14:07:38 Oscawana business association, businesses and rental
14:07:43 properties, rental owners were involved, that we could
14:07:46 probably work together and get solutions.
14:07:48 We are not allowed in that association.
14:07:50 So everything that goes on in that association we don't
14:07:53 hear until later.
14:07:55 We are one of the few independent restaurants that
14:07:58 serve chef crew seen.
14:08:02 Tampa had -- cuisine.
14:08:05 St. Pete has far more dining establishments that are
14:08:07 locally owned.
14:08:07 I feel that part of this is to do with the huge change
14:08:12 of your capital growth, that has a huge amount of
14:08:15 buying power and advertising dollars.
14:08:17 Many of these chains are also in big financial downturn
14:08:23 We have people at Mangroves that have eaten from all
14:08:27 over the world, from the Don Cesar to the Marriott
14:08:31 The area 15 years ago, the chatterbox was there in
14:08:38 Jimmy Macs.
14:08:42 I think chatterbox opened in the 40s and I don't
14:08:45 think they served any type of food except for popcorn.
14:08:49 Also in the article that was mentioned, along with all
14:08:52 the bar fights, Mangroves is not mentioned in that
14:08:59 We are not considered one of the bars.
14:09:00 We are not part of all these police calls either.
14:09:06 I would witness for two Fridays in a row where I saw
14:09:09 red and blue lights flashing in my driveway and I went
14:09:12 to the officer and asked what is going on?
14:09:15 Someone ran a red light.
14:09:17 And I waited for 45 minutes while he had those lights
14:09:20 on in my parking lot and asked him, is this going to go
14:09:23 against me?
14:09:24 And he said, it is on your address.
14:09:26 And I said, well now I have to prove that I had nothing
14:09:28 to do with it.
14:09:30 And he goes, yes, unfortunately, that's the way it
14:09:35 We are not making our number.
14:09:36 And this is the only license that we have.
14:09:39 There is not a separate club license where you can
14:09:42 serve dinner.
14:09:45 (Bell sounds)
14:09:46 Thank you.
14:09:47 A little nervous.
14:09:48 >> My name is Walter Crumbley, the president of the
14:10:06 homeowners association.
14:10:11 I am a slow talker and have a long ways to get it all
14:10:20 I think it's important we need to recognize if you
14:10:25 people approve this you can be creating within the next
14:10:28 three to five years another MacDinton's.
14:10:42 They made their reputation on food and virtually Erv
14:10:45 everybody who signed a petition or came up here to
14:10:48 speak talked about the great food, so if the food is so
14:10:52 great, why is alcohol suddenly a big problem and you
14:10:57 have you can't make your numbers on the food?
14:10:59 That's something I have not understood.
14:11:01 The police have serious problems with this as indicated
14:11:07 in their report.
14:11:19 denying this application will not set a legally binding
14:11:32 precedent, but let me tell you that everybody is
14:11:38 You can't believe that people who came down here in the
14:11:44 past to get all these alcohol licenses if they didn't
14:11:47 think they had a pretty good shot at it, and this is
14:11:49 borne out by the fact that within a two or three-block
14:11:53 area you have over 15 alcohol-serving places.
14:11:57 Not withstanding your city code that has separation
14:12:01 requirements and everything like that, all which were
14:12:06 routinely waived over the years.
14:12:14 One of the first mistakes I guess that ever happened
14:12:17 was MacDinton's.
14:12:20 The thing has just gone completely out of alcohol.
14:12:23 Also, a problem with drinking, DUI, parking, and you
14:12:31 all have this to some extent with the parking.
14:12:33 We still have the number two area in the City of Tampa
14:12:36 for DUI arrests is right there in the SoHo district.
14:12:45 Why would you want to create this problem or make it
14:12:47 worse than it already is?
14:12:52 Take a good look at Ybor and what happened down there
14:12:56 over the years with the granting of licenses and this
14:13:01 sort of thing?
14:13:02 And what kind of problems did you have down there when
14:13:05 you had high concentrations of places that served
14:13:09 And that's the same way that we are heading in SoHo,
14:13:13 and we are quite concerned about it.
14:13:18 Our membership is open to businesses.
14:13:23 You know, they can pay dues if they want or they can
14:13:27 just come to the meeting if they want.
14:13:28 The only hooker is we don't give anyone but residents,
14:13:33 homeowners and opportunity to vote.
14:13:36 (Bell sounds)
14:13:37 Thank you.
14:13:43 >> My name is POGOS, and I live down on Howard Avenue.
14:13:52 One of the reasons I used to live there is because of
14:13:55 places like Mangroves and what it has turned into.
14:14:00 Now today I have a lot of nonsense on the opposing side
14:14:05 concerning what the place looked like in 1976.
14:14:13 A couple of articles that ran, I don't know if they are
14:14:18 100 percent correct or not 100 percent.
14:14:20 I heard ladies or gentlemen speaking about college
14:14:23 students walking home from Mangroves.
14:14:27 I visit the place quite often.
14:14:30 It's one of my favorite places in Tampa.
14:14:32 And I have rarely ever seen a college kid in the
14:14:35 I don't know too many college kids that can afford $12
14:14:41 It's a very upscale place.
14:14:44 And Mangroves is the reason why Howard Avenue has
14:14:50 turned itself to what has slowly turned itself on its
14:14:54 The city is spending all kind of money on Channelside,
14:14:56 here, there, trying to get walking -- where now people
14:15:03 are building apartment buildings close to Howard
14:15:05 Avenue, because of Howard and the district and the
14:15:09 upscale area it has become.
14:15:15 Well, that's all I would like to say.
14:15:17 I was very upset about some of the things I was hearing
14:15:19 from the opposing side, and they don't have their facts
14:15:24 Just like the gentleman said, the police department
14:15:29 says they have a lot of problems.
14:15:30 That's the first time I heard of the police department
14:15:34 saying they have a lot of problems with Mangroves.
14:15:36 Like I said, the people said they have a very clean
14:15:42 I have never seen episodes of there the last 10, 12
14:15:46 years I have been frequently visiting the place.
14:15:48 I used to own three mortgage companies near downtown
14:15:52 I used to have a lot of clients meet there.
14:15:56 The food is superb.
14:16:00 The after-hour night life is very quiet in the area.
14:16:06 And again I enjoyed living in that neighborhood.
14:16:09 That's why I moved there.
14:16:16 Thank you.
14:16:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
14:16:18 >> Good afternoon.
14:16:21 My name is John Smith.
14:16:22 I live -- it really is John Smith, by the way.
14:16:25 [ Laughter ]
14:16:29 1926 river crossing driver drive, Valrico. I am
14:16:35 obviously not a neighbor to Mangroves but I have been
14:16:38 going to Mangroves for eight, nine, ten years.
14:16:41 I have been going for a number of reasons.
14:16:43 Up with, the maturity of the clientele.
14:16:45 They are not the same as the rest of whatever the term
14:16:47 is, teeny boppers or SoHo.
14:16:50 They are very mature group of people, and maturity
14:16:53 comes either through the words of young people here, or
14:16:57 maturity in terms of years, as in myself.
14:17:00 And I won't tell you my age, but just suffice that I
14:17:05 remember when Eisenhower was president, so if that puts
14:17:08 it into context.
14:17:09 Mangroves caters to a wide variety of mature people,
14:17:14 mature clientele.
14:17:15 The second one as we know, the owners are very vigilant
14:17:19 and know they are vigilant on underage drinking.
14:17:22 And the third reason and equally important is the
14:17:24 first-class quality of the food and beverage.
14:17:28 And to give you a real quick real life example, earlier
14:17:33 this year I was able to host Alysse, on the popular
14:17:39 history show history detective.
14:17:41 She was here in Tampa speaking at the history center.
14:17:44 Alysse lives on the upper side of New York City so
14:17:49 she's used to a certain level of sophistication.
14:17:52 I was able to take her to a restaurant after her event
14:17:55 at the history center, and I have nothing against Sam
14:17:59 Seltzer and the cow out front, but of course I took her
14:18:03 to Mangroves, and it worked out absolutely perfectly.
14:18:06 So again I just want to affirm that it's a first-class
14:18:10 establishment who caters to mature people of all ages.
14:18:19 >> Good afternoon.
14:18:22 I have been sworn.
14:18:22 My name is Jason pally.
14:18:27 I'm a seven year employee of Mangroves.
14:18:29 Seven years I have been there.
14:18:33 I might be a little emotional up here.
14:18:36 So I apologize.
14:18:37 I do speak on behalf of the 24 employees, my family, I
14:18:43 consider the staff of Mangroves.
14:18:50 Most of us have been there, I would say, half the staff
14:18:53 over three years, and it's not just the working
14:18:59 environment that's provided that is incredible, by the
14:19:01 way, the reason we stay there.
14:19:06 For the livelihood in this economy, you know, we are
14:19:11 We have staff, children, wives, family we have to take
14:19:17 care of.
14:19:17 Right now there are no jobs.
14:19:19 So if you vote against us, pretty much, 25 families are
14:19:28 So I would like you to take that into consideration.
14:19:30 Now, getting back to the lady who says the reports on
14:19:38 the Internet, you need to know also that we are ranked
14:19:42 number 20 on Trip Advisor. That's one of the biggest
14:19:46 Web sites in the world for people to travel and find
14:19:49 I'm a server. If it wasn't for the clientele, the
14:19:56 critics who love our food, love our environment, I
14:19:58 wouldn't be there, obviously.
14:20:02 Like I said, if you could just please on behalf of the
14:20:06 staff to save our jobs, take into consideration.
14:20:11 Thank you very much.
14:20:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
14:20:14 >> We have more, but I think they have graciously said
14:20:14 maybe we have covered it all, and just have a little
14:20:22 time for rebuttal, please.
14:20:31 >> Robert Clafer, 3707 West Leona. I have been sworn.
14:20:36 I am here to talk about two issues with regards to
14:20:38 Mangroves that you ought to know about.
14:20:40 First and foremost, I work for a real estate office in
14:20:45 Hyde Park, Kelly and Associates.
14:20:48 We cater to people who potentially want to move to the
14:20:51 Of course we want to show the upside of Tampa.
14:20:54 I frequently take my clients to Mangroves who are
14:20:59 looking to buy in Hyde Park or looking to buy in South
14:21:01 Tampa, looking to buy in Palma Ceia, because it is one
14:21:04 of the few upscale restaurants outside of Bern's, that
14:21:09 they will be able to see and experience in Tampa when
14:21:11 they make a decision to move here.
14:21:13 I recently took a rain maker, as I like to call them,
14:21:17 somebody who is bringing jobs to the area to Mangroves
14:21:20 to wine and dine them to move here.
14:21:22 They subsequently did.
14:21:23 I think it was because of the food.
14:21:25 Maybe not.
14:21:26 But they did move here.
14:21:28 That's issue number one.
14:21:30 Issue number two, my child attends Roosevelt
14:21:34 They are throwing their biggest fund-raiser this
14:21:37 One of the biggest sponsors that's donating their time,
14:21:42 money, and food is to this cause is Mangroves.
14:21:45 They are a good community player.
14:21:47 They should be preserved.
14:21:48 Thank you.
14:21:48 >> Could we have two minutes of rebuttal?
14:21:58 In 1997 there were approximately 34 establishments that
14:22:01 served alcohol.
14:22:01 Now there are approximately 41.
14:22:03 Population has about doubled since 1997.
14:22:08 This is not the start of a precedent.
14:22:09 It's a 14 year experience.
14:22:11 And those 10 or 12 businesses -- we love our neighbors.
14:22:21 Mentioned 10, 12, 13 businesses that closed and
14:22:24 employees out of work and their families ands kids, one
14:22:27 wants to testify, she's six months but she's underage.
14:22:30 Therefore there's no underage drinking at Mangroves.
14:22:33 She is six months, Olivia Christensen and you heard
14:22:36 from her eight times already and she's welcome to stay,
14:22:39 and she is welcome to stay along with the other 25
14:22:42 families that are dependent upon -- honor is more
14:22:45 important than just those families?
14:22:46 It's the community that needs the resources to all the
14:22:49 young people, to keep the young people, to keep -- and
14:22:55 some of those national ratings and some of the things,
14:22:59 having to adapt.
14:23:00 Those 13 businesses, I know they failed because they
14:23:06 couldn't adapt.
14:23:07 We ask that you let us adapt an save this community's
14:23:10 Thank you.
14:23:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Questions by council?
14:23:23 >>YVONNE CAPIN: There are a couple of things that I
14:23:26 wrote down here.
14:23:28 And as you well know, I did have that community meeting
14:23:31 in October 5th, and on October the 8th, a
14:23:35 Friday evening, I walked with sergeant Torres and her
14:23:45 officers from 11 p.m. till 2 a.m. the entire, entire
14:23:53 Howard Avenue, Platt, all of it.
14:23:56 I even went in an alley on a possible raid in a home
14:24:00 where they thought there was underage drinkers, which
14:24:03 turned out it was not.
14:24:06 It was the home of a young professional that lives two
14:24:09 blocks from Howard Avenue.
14:24:15 They were fine.
14:24:16 There was not anything other than they thought there
14:24:20 was underage university of Tampa.
14:24:23 They were young professionals.
14:24:24 They live in the area.
14:24:25 Those people walking to their houses live in the area.
14:24:31 The other is, I agree that this neighborhood -- and the
14:24:36 reason I'm saying this is this neighborhood can't
14:24:44 sustain all the cars coming in.
14:24:46 It's meant to be a neighborhood.
14:24:48 It's meant to be -- I asked at my meeting of October
14:24:53 5th how many neighborhood associations allow
14:24:55 businesses to join, and a few hands went up.
14:24:59 That's very good because the businesses are your
14:25:04 It's a neighborhood.
14:25:05 Everyone is there.
14:25:08 I've done a lot of hours on this.
14:25:11 I've spent a lot of hours on this because this is in my
14:25:15 And one of the things that I want to point out is that
14:25:21 I went to a brand new place on Thursday evening with my
14:25:25 daughter and son-in-law, which is in the opposite end
14:25:28 of Howard Avenue, right at Bayshore Boulevard, and I
14:25:32 looked at their cocktail menu, and there were -- their
14:25:36 cocktail menu was ten -- there was no cocktail less
14:25:39 than $10.
14:25:41 About $15.
14:25:42 And that was what was the draw there.
14:25:51 Very quiet, very sustained, very mature people there.
14:25:58 I want to just say that's the kind of places -- and
14:26:02 what I'm looking at is one of the things that was
14:26:04 brought up before, do we want to penalize the
14:26:17 businesses that are complying, are trying to, and are
14:26:24 mature, are a good neighbor, and what we have here to
14:26:31 borrow a line from a movie, what we have here is a
14:26:35 failure to comply, because I heard 14 times bars.
14:26:44 They are not bars.
14:26:45 They are incidental to primary use and restaurants.
14:26:52 Now, the problem is a failure to comply, and that is
14:26:59 what we have.
14:27:00 When you refer to these places as bars, that's wrong.
14:27:04 They are not.
14:27:08 They are not.
14:27:09 And they need to comply.
14:27:19 I had another note.
14:27:20 Again, that 51/49, I have heard this from upscale
14:27:24 restaurants that are not in that area telling me that
14:27:29 they are having a hard time because, for instance, ten
14:27:35 years ago a hamburger was $4 and a drink was 2.50 or $3
14:27:42 or beer.
14:27:43 Now you are looking at a cocktail being $8 and the
14:27:45 hamburger 7 and the cocktail 10 and hamburger 7, and
14:27:51 they are not being able -- and there are places that I
14:27:54 am sure that are very reputable, and their numbers are
14:28:00 And they are trying very, very hard to stay within
14:28:04 So I don't know what the answer is to the 49/51 but I
14:28:09 do know what the answer is to these places that are
14:28:12 being called bars, and again it is a failure to comply
14:28:17 with the conditions that were put on there.
14:28:21 Not necessarily by -- that everyone keeps going, oh,
14:28:25 this City Council, this City Council.
14:28:26 Some of these were in there 25, 30 years, way before
14:28:30 any of us were up here.
14:28:32 But how do we keep them in compliance?
14:28:39 And that is what I have been working on with legal,
14:28:44 with zoning, with law enforcement, with the fire
14:28:54 And again I feel that we have a very reputable
14:28:59 establishment here.
14:29:00 And I am going to say this.
14:29:02 I did vote for it before, and I am going to again for
14:29:05 the same reason that I did before.
14:29:11 It is a failure to comply on everyone's part out there.
14:29:18 And here we have a very good upscale restaurant with a
14:29:24 mature --
14:29:32 Thank you.
14:29:34 >>: Thank you.
14:29:34 Selling alcohol is not a right.
14:29:38 It's a privilege.
14:29:39 You have to come and apply.
14:29:43 If you didn't have to come and apply you could sell
14:29:45 alcohol anywhere you want.
14:29:48 Why were these restrictions placed?
14:29:51 Well, I was here when it was 60/40, and I was here, and
14:29:57 one of the sponsors of 51-49 to correct the problem.
14:30:02 There is nothing wrong with the establishment.
14:30:06 I don't see anything wrong with the establishment.
14:30:08 I don't see anything wrong with having a restaurant.
14:30:10 I don't believe that this establishment or any other
14:30:14 establishment should have applies record just because
14:30:18 the incident was reported there.
14:30:19 I don't believe it at all.
14:30:22 But let me tell you what I do believe in.
14:30:25 I don't believe that the food and the alcohol at the
14:30:32 food cost, the alcohol cost has doubled and the food
14:30:34 cost has not in the last 15 years.
14:30:38 What is a case of liquor today?
14:30:40 Because you get 80% profit on alcohol.
14:30:49 And you are argue that all you want.
14:30:54 It isn't much less than food.
14:30:55 So it's more profitable to sell alcohol than it does
14:30:59 The numbers may be skewed a percent or two different
14:31:03 but let me tell you what worries me.
14:31:05 I asked the legal department in case they know.
14:31:07 Has there ever been a switch in a restaurant business
14:31:10 in the last ten years in this city from a 4(COP-R) to a
14:31:24 I'm asking.
14:31:25 I don't know.
14:31:25 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
14:31:26 I haven't been here ten years.
14:31:28 I can't answer that question.
14:31:29 I believe it has happened but I don't have details.
14:31:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me tell what you is going to
14:31:34 This is going to start a process of which more and more
14:31:41 are going to come by on the same thing.
14:31:45 You can do and say what you like.
14:31:47 But the reality is you knew what you were getting in
14:31:54 when you signed that agreement verbally, or legally
14:31:57 when you applied for 51/49.
14:32:02 Sales become more important in reality.
14:32:06 When you are selling alcohol and the bar is open, and
14:32:11 you can tell me your kitchen is going to be open.
14:32:13 I'm not talking about this location.
14:32:14 Any location.
14:32:16 You can't have a complementary full kitchen staff with
14:32:19 two or three cooks, a dishwasher, a prep person, a
14:32:23 salad person, and make the numbers meet.
14:32:26 You can't do it.
14:32:27 It doesn't work out.
14:32:31 For alcohol you need one or two bartenders and a backup
14:32:34 for a bar.
14:32:35 That works out because the profit is much greater.
14:32:38 So you can debate all you want.
14:32:39 I'm not looking for a debate.
14:32:41 I'm just saying that I remember filet mignon used to be
14:32:46 5.25 a pound.
14:32:47 Now you go to Sam's, it's about $10 a pound.
14:32:52 So you are telling me that a case of not 175 but where
14:32:59 you get 30-some drinks a bottle, let's say $150.
14:33:06 Now it's 300?
14:33:08 It might be.
14:33:10 But you want to push that because now you are selling
14:33:13 $12 that was mentioned here martinis, and that's 12
14:33:18 times 31 or 32 depending on who is pouring the drink of
14:33:22 that unit cost.
14:33:24 Times 12.
14:33:26 So out of one bottle, out of one bottle, the mark-up
14:33:41 which you get, it's much more than selling a case of
14:33:44 filet mignon.
14:33:46 So what we are doing here is looking at a precedent
14:33:51 setting that will change those that says, oh, I can't
14:33:55 survive, by evidence submitted that you are a great
14:34:00 I don't doubt that at all.
14:34:03 But you do catering.
14:34:05 I don't doubt that at all.
14:34:08 That you have a great clientele.
14:34:11 I can tell by the public here today, that you have
14:34:13 people driving long distances to go there.
14:34:15 I don't doubt that at all.
14:34:17 But the most important thing that I look at is that you
14:34:21 meet your obligation on the day you got that contract
14:34:27 14 years ago.
14:34:30 So what I'm saying is, you have got one supporting it
14:34:34 and one that will not.
14:34:37 Because now you are down to five.
14:34:40 And I'm not an oddsmaker.
14:34:42 I just tell you the facts.
14:34:44 The fact are that you market it sometime back, not
14:34:47 now -- this is not yesterday's problem that sort of
14:34:50 sprung up.
14:34:51 It's slowly creeping up.
14:34:53 And you have seen it slowly creeping up and now you
14:34:57 come here and say, well, guess what, I want to be a
14:35:01 That's what you are if you get the 4(COP-X).
14:35:03 I don't want to hear about the contract that you want
14:35:05 to sign because that's illegal.
14:35:07 I can't take that.
14:35:08 Or the contract that you do have in place.
14:35:12 Chairman, thank you very much for the time.
14:35:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern.
14:35:15 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
14:35:16 Ms. Kert, if we give them their bar designation, their
14:35:26 4(COP-X), right?
14:35:30 That's what it's called?
14:35:32 And then as will happen, no doubt, if that happens,
14:35:40 then another restaurant -- I love that baby.
14:35:48 I think you could make money with modeling.
14:35:53 Very cute.
14:35:56 They come in, and what do we have when the next
14:36:03 restaurant comes in and comes and tells us what great
14:36:06 food they have, and they parade all their, you know,
14:36:11 clients, I guess you call them clients, diners, and
14:36:18 then we say, no, we are not going to give you a bar,
14:36:22 because really we have got too many bars in SoHo, and
14:36:25 the neighbors don't want it.
14:36:27 So we say the next restaurant that comes in, no, you
14:36:33 cannot have that.
14:36:35 Then we go to -- what's your legal opinion about how
14:36:43 you will defend that decision?
14:36:47 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
14:36:52 We would defend that decision depending upon the
14:36:55 circumstances of the case.
14:36:58 If, for example, you granted --
14:37:01 >>MARY MULHERN: Right, I told you, what we are going
14:37:05 to deny it on is the fact that it's not compatible, and
14:37:09 that it's not to the general welfare of the
14:37:14 neighborhood, so how do you defend that?
14:37:18 >>REBECCA KERT: Council, I am going to take a step
14:37:20 back and just say -- explain a couple things.
14:37:24 Number one, every case that comes in is considered
14:37:29 They may back up to a neighborhood.
14:37:32 They may back up to commercial.
14:37:34 They may be closer to the road.
14:37:35 They may be further from the road.
14:37:37 At the same time, what people say sets a precedent, it
14:37:44 doesn't set a precedent for situations that are not the
14:37:46 If you have a situation that comes in that's similarly
14:37:50 situated, I would expect and a court would expect that
14:37:53 you would treat the similarly situated establishment
14:37:56 the same.
14:37:59 >>MARY MULHERN: And that is part of our responsibility
14:38:01 here, right?
14:38:04 >>REBECCA KERT: Yes.
14:38:06 >>MARY MULHERN: I think that's what I wanted to get
14:38:10 If you call it a precedent, a trend, whatever, but
14:38:14 clearly we have seen it happen much in this three
14:38:16 blocks that the more liquor sales that have been
14:38:22 approved here -- and we have approved them, and they
14:38:25 all have, you know, many, many, many of them have had
14:38:28 that waiver of the distance separation.
14:38:34 And we saw what happened in Ybor.
14:38:37 And I have to say that, you know, my four years here, I
14:38:44 don't remember, or three and a half, I don't remember
14:38:47 us ever giving a restaurant upzoning it to -- I don't
14:38:54 Maybe Abbye does.
14:38:55 But in this neighborhood, we haven't.
14:38:58 Because MacDinton's was before I came on here.
14:39:03 So what I think council needs to remember is that we
14:39:11 have spent hours and hours and hours, this council,
14:39:15 this term, listening to people from this neighborhood
14:39:20 who wanted to sell alcohol, wanted later hours, wanted
14:39:24 longer hours, wanted, you know, to sell liquor in
14:39:27 addition to beer and wine, and we have had the
14:39:32 neighbors come in here regularly, asking us not to do
14:39:36 So sometimes we approve it.
14:39:39 Sometimes we don't.
14:39:40 That's irrelevant.
14:39:41 But the reality is that this is what we do here.
14:39:47 And our job is to listen to the neighborhood, and what
14:39:51 they want.
14:39:52 And I can tell you that this is not some exceptional
14:39:58 It's just like every other one where the neighbors came
14:40:01 in and said, please don't do this.
14:40:04 We are sick of it.
14:40:05 We don't want more drinking.
14:40:06 We don't want more DUIs.
14:40:08 We don't want more people acting inappropriately on
14:40:15 their way to cars, parking in front of our house.
14:40:17 I mean, hundreds and hundreds of hours in my short time
14:40:20 on this council we have spent on this.
14:40:22 So this is not -- you know, it's like one of the people
14:40:29 who doesn't live in the neighborhood, young people who
14:40:32 I'm glad that they want to, you know, stay in Tampa.
14:40:37 I would love to see my daughter come back.
14:40:39 She's not going to come back because of a restaurant
14:40:42 turned into a bar, I'll tell you that.
14:40:49 I lost my train of thought.
14:40:50 But, basically, this is just-this will continue the
14:40:57 And it will just open up the doors to get ready for
14:41:01 your next six months on this council.
14:41:05 Everybody will want to turn into a bar.
14:41:08 And I just have to differ with that business model that
14:41:12 in this recession the only thing you can do to stand
14:41:15 out as a business -- and that story in the Tribune
14:41:19 basically said, you know, had what's going on here?
14:41:22 Why do we need more bars?
14:41:26 If you choose in that neighborhood to turn into a bar
14:41:28 instead of a distinctive restaurant, you are setting
14:41:31 yourselves up for the toughest competition.
14:41:34 You know, Seminole Heights, somewhere else.
14:41:38 How about East Tampa, or Tampa Palms?
14:41:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Now we are going too far.
14:41:45 >>MARY MULHERN: I am not going too far.
14:41:46 I am remaining you this is my neighborhood.
14:41:48 This is my neighborhood.
14:41:50 I live there.
14:41:51 And I'm telling you that the neighbors do not want more
14:41:55 bars there.
14:41:58 And think about put yourselves in my house and see if
14:42:02 that -- or better yet, in Mr. Crumbley's house and see
14:42:07 if you want another bar.
14:42:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Hold it, hold it, hold it.
14:42:13 Councilman Caetano.
14:42:14 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Ms. Mulhern mentioned that we set
14:42:17 a precedent.
14:42:18 But every case is judged on their own merits.
14:42:23 Each one individually.
14:42:26 A bar is a bar.
14:42:28 Mangroves is not a bar.
14:42:29 It's a restaurant.
14:42:30 They serve great food.
14:42:33 And sometimes I might say I'm going to the bar but it's
14:42:38 really not a bar.
14:42:39 So I think, like Mrs. Capin said here, a bar is not a
14:42:44 bar and I agree with that and every case has to be
14:42:46 based on its own merits.
14:42:48 I remember when we were doing the zoning for Busch
14:42:52 Gardens, some guy got up and said that there were 23
14:42:56 drunk drivers on Busch Boulevard.
14:42:58 Does that mean they came from Busch Gardens?
14:43:02 My answer was it came from the blue martini.
14:43:04 They were going home on Busch Gardens.
14:43:08 [ Laughter ]
14:43:18 You weren't there.
14:43:23 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Okay.
14:43:24 Here we go.
14:43:26 I am going to go one by one here.
14:43:32 It is a privilege.
14:43:32 No one needs to sell alcoholic beverages.
14:43:36 That is an absolute privilege that we here did the
14:43:43 zoning permit so that you can go over to the state and
14:43:46 say, look, I can serve alcoholic beverages.
14:43:50 That's one.
14:43:53 The other one was we talked about alcohol and how many
14:43:56 drinks you can get out of a bottle of whatever, rum.
14:44:01 I know that there are establishments on Howard Avenue
14:44:04 that sell two and three hundred dollar bottles of wine
14:44:10 with their food.
14:44:11 They have a $600 wine bill with a $100 food bill.
14:44:18 This happens.
14:44:19 As a matter of fact, one of the officers said to me
14:44:22 that evening that out of one of these establishments,
14:44:27 granted again I go back to it is a failure of
14:44:31 It is not -- they are not bars.
14:44:34 They are restaurants.
14:44:35 They are incidental to use.
14:44:39 And unless compliance comes in to play, they can call
14:44:45 them bars.
14:44:46 They are not.
14:44:47 And it is up to us, the city, to make sure that they
14:44:53 That's one.
14:44:54 So they are not bars.
14:44:58 Secondly, I was told by one of the police officers, you
14:45:06 know, you can't have open containers, and they are very
14:45:10 vigilant about that.
14:45:11 Well, they stopped a gentleman with a bottle of
14:45:14 It happened to be a $1,000 bottle of champagne that he
14:45:18 walked out of an establishment with.
14:45:22 So, yes, you do -- particularly in the better places,
14:45:28 you do have the wine which is very, very expensive to
14:45:33 your meal.
14:45:33 So the numbers get skewed, and they do get skewed, and
14:45:39 it's no fault of the very reputable establishment that
14:45:45 has a wine cellar.
14:45:48 Also on here, we have in support -- and this goes back
14:45:53 to -- I'm looking at this.
14:45:57 This is before I was here.
14:45:58 There were 32 signed letters from residents of Courier
14:46:04 City in support of this going back, and 33606, 33609,
14:46:13 this is the neighborhood.
14:46:14 And they are in support.
14:46:15 I have it here.
14:46:19 And what I want to say is, do we want to keep, you
14:46:23 know, going to the lowest denominator instead of saying
14:46:31 You know, where is this reputable restaurant -- well,
14:46:36 how are we going to equate in a place that has been
14:46:40 established for 14 years to some of these places that
14:46:46 are not complying and are acting like bars, and should
14:46:50 we go along with it?
14:46:51 Oh, they are bars, they are bars, they are bars.
14:46:54 They are not bars.
14:46:55 And that is the problem.
14:46:56 And it is very aggravating to the neighborhood.
14:47:02 I understand the neighborhood's frustration.
14:47:05 I understand the reputable restaurant owners'
14:47:10 frustration with this.
14:47:12 Again, we will work on a mechanism for compliance.
14:47:17 Thank you.
14:47:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, let me just say a few things and
14:47:21 then try to bring this to closure.
14:47:24 This is about the third time that this petition has
14:47:25 been before us.
14:47:29 Things change.
14:47:32 Time brings about change.
14:47:34 Life brings about change.
14:47:37 Economics bring about change.
14:47:41 What worked 20 years ago does not work today.
14:47:45 A fact.
14:47:46 Four years ago, our school in our church was realizing
14:47:50 300 students every week.
14:47:52 300 kids.
14:47:56 No governmental subsidy, period.
14:47:58 Private support for students.
14:48:03 You have a bus to go try to pick up kids.
14:48:05 This is strictly a private school operated by a
14:48:07 religious institution, existed for 25 years, up top
14:48:13 three years ago.
14:48:14 300 kids.
14:48:18 No governmental subsidies.
14:48:20 I will tell you today we have 170 kids.
14:48:23 A majority of those kids on governmental subsidies.
14:48:31 Because the economy, the economics changed.
14:48:40 They changed.
14:48:41 Up until three years ago we didn't have to do any
14:48:47 advertisement, no marketing.
14:48:51 We do all of that now as well as go on the phone and
14:48:54 call people.
14:48:58 I want to put that on the record so we understand that
14:49:01 sometimes change takes place, not because we want it,
14:49:09 because of time, because of the economy, and that's
14:49:11 what happened, I believe, in some of these instances.
14:49:13 Secondly, I want to say we have an obligation to hear
14:49:18 every citizen that comes in this room, not just
14:49:21 We have an obligation to hear every citizen that walks
14:49:24 through this door.
14:49:26 I want that to be clear.
14:49:28 Everybody comes in.
14:49:29 You have opportunity when you come in here.
14:49:31 We have a right, we should hear you based on our
14:49:35 agenda, based on our time and all that.
14:49:37 We want to hear from you.
14:49:41 The other thing that we have to understand is that this
14:49:43 council, I will tell you that this council has taken
14:49:47 action to really protect t