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TAMPA CITY COUNCIL

Thursday, November 4, 2010

9:00 a.m. session

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09:03:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The chair will yield to Councilwoman

09:03:39 Mulhern.

09:03:40 >>MARY MULHERN: Good morning.

09:03:43 I would like to introduce Father Tom Morgan, the pastor

09:03:47 of St. Lawrence Baptist church, born in Louisiana in

09:03:52 1958, moved to Tampa in 1961.

09:03:55 He attended St. Lawrence school in Tampa and graduated

09:03:58 from Tampa Catholic in 1976.

09:04:01 After entering Florida State University, father Tom

09:04:03 left in 1977 for St. John's college seminary in Miami

09:04:09 where he received a bachelor of philosophy.

09:04:12 From there father Tom a extended St. Vincent Paul in

09:04:17 Boynton beach and he was ordained deacon in 1983 and

09:04:22 priest of the Diocese of St. Petersburg in May 1984.

09:04:25 Father Morgan is going to give our invocation this

09:04:29 morning.

09:04:29 Thank you.

09:04:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Would you please stand and remain

09:04:32 standing for the pledge of allegiance?

09:04:33 >> Almighty God, we ask for your blessing upon our City

09:04:38 Council as they strive to make the best decisions for

09:04:41 the people of Tampa.

09:04:43 We pray for your wisdom for each of our council

09:04:46 members.

09:04:47 We thank you for the blessing of our city and the life

09:04:50 of each of us.

09:04:51 We pray that all of our citizens may work for and

09:04:54 support what is best for our city.

09:04:58 We pray that whether our families have lived here for

09:05:00 generations or those who have recently arrived that




09:05:03 each of us may embrace the gift of this great city and

09:05:06 that all of us will cherish Tampa as home.

09:05:09 In your name we pray.

09:05:10 Amen.

09:05:11 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]

09:05:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much for come and being

09:05:31 here today.

09:05:32 Thank you.

09:05:34 Roll call.

09:05:34 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.

09:05:38 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Present.

09:05:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.

09:05:42 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.

09:05:43 >>CURTIS STOKES: Here.

09:05:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.

09:05:48 We have a memorandum off from councilman Miranda.

09:05:59 Please be advised I will be unable to attend the

09:06:02 Thursday November 4, 2010 City Council meeting.

09:06:05 I will be out of town.

09:06:06 Please see that the reason for my absence is read into

09:06:10 the record.

09:06:11 That's from councilman Miranda.




09:06:12 Also today, councilman Capin will leave at 11:15 and

09:06:33 return back at 1:30.

09:06:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to approve the minutes.

09:06:35 >> Second.

09:06:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Oh, sorry.

09:06:40 Moved and seconded.

09:06:41 All in favor?

09:06:43 Opposes?

09:06:44 Okay.

09:06:47 We will review our agenda and then take public

09:06:49 comments.

09:06:49 >>MARTIN SHELBY: In front of you, you have the

09:06:51 addendum to today.

09:06:54 You have the addendum to today's agenda.

09:06:57 Item number 1 is a substitution.

09:07:07 There's been a substitute ordinance to correct a

09:07:08 spelling.

09:07:09 We ask that that be done.

09:07:11 Item number 7 is a lease agreement between the City of

09:07:16 Tampa and the children's museum for the leasing

09:07:19 operation of the Glazer children's museum.

09:07:24 Also a request of the legal department requesting a




09:07:26 substitution of the agreement on that.

09:07:29 Item number 3 is an agreement for land use hearing

09:07:33 officer.

09:07:34 And I believe you received a memorandum from Julia Cole

09:07:38 asking that that be continued, that item, to November

09:07:43 18th.

09:07:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Which item is that?

09:07:48 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Item number 19.

09:07:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You said item number 3.

09:07:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That's my mistake.

09:07:54 Well, thank you for mentioning that.

09:07:58 That was item 19.

09:08:00 I'm sorry.

09:08:00 Item 19.

09:08:04 I'll try not to do that again.

09:08:07 That is a request for a continuance to November

09:08:09 18th.

09:08:10 Ms. Cole would like the opportunity to talk with

09:08:12 council members in advance of that and schedule a

09:08:15 meeting.

09:08:16 Item number 22 is a resolution regarding the issuance

09:08:23 of utilities tax bonds, and there is a request for a




09:08:27 substitution of exhibits A and D.

09:08:32 Item 48 is a request to substitute the ordinance to

09:08:36 change the date for the completion of the improvements

09:08:38 regarding historic preservation property tax exemption

09:08:44 application.

09:08:47 Then you have, council, three items under staff

09:08:50 reports.

09:08:52 Number 63, 65, and 69.

09:08:58 63 under staff reports regarding a report of an

09:09:04 accident that occurred on east Chelsea and north

09:09:08 34th.

09:09:09 65 is to discuss the MacDill Air Force Base

09:09:15 suggestions for improvement on transportation.

09:09:19 And 69 is the bicycle master plan and sidewalk plan.

09:09:26 You have received the memorandum from Jean Dorzback on

09:09:29 that as well.

09:09:30 Unfortunately, council, Jean Dorzback is ill today and

09:09:34 Mr. Daignault ultimate is not available to be in today

09:09:37 as well, and the administration is requesting that

09:09:39 those items be continued to a suggested date which is

09:09:44 okay with the administration under staff reports for

09:09:46 December 2nd.




09:09:48 So if we can have that as part of the motion.

09:09:50 Then item 69 --

09:09:57 >> All three of those items are requested for December

09:10:00 2nd.

09:10:00 Why not the 18th?

09:10:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You can have it on the 18th,

09:10:05 council.

09:10:05 That is a possibility.

09:10:06 That is your last meeting before the Thanksgiving

09:10:11 break.

09:10:11 You do have a night meeting that night.

09:10:14 And you also have the first de novo VRB hearing for

09:10:18 10:30.

09:10:19 So if council wishes the 18th, you certainly can.

09:10:21 >>GWEN MILLER: No.

09:10:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I just think that that should

09:10:28 always give consideration of council since they

09:10:29 requested continuance, to have adequate staff

09:10:34 available, and Mr. Smith and I had a conversation about

09:10:37 that this morning.

09:10:38 I believe people getting sick and so forth.

09:10:40 But I just understand in the future when you set these




09:10:43 kind things, you know, you want to be able to move

09:10:46 forward and take care of them on City Council relative

09:10:52 to the city.

09:10:52 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And in fairness, council, that date

09:10:56 was my suggestion after consultation with the clerk.

09:10:59 The administration had no objection.

09:11:05 Number 63, 65 and 69.

09:11:15 Item 67 is with number 19, and Ms. Cole is requesting

09:11:24 item 67 be continued to November 18th.

09:11:26 Item number 70 is set for the afternoon, and I will

09:11:30 bring to council's attention now that at that time they

09:11:35 will be required to have a motion to have that item

09:11:37 withdrawn.

09:11:38 Number 70 is being withdrawn.

09:11:40 Number 8 cannot be heard because the affidavit and

09:11:44 complete records were not filed.

09:11:45 And that will have to be taken up --

09:11:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Number 8?

09:11:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I did it again, council.

09:11:52 I'm so sorry.

09:11:55 Number 79.

09:11:56 You know what I did?




09:11:58 I will explain what I did.

09:11:59 I will not do it again, I promise you.

09:12:04 [ Laughter ]

09:12:10 Council --

09:12:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I hope that's not a sign of what this

09:12:16 day is going to be like.

09:12:18 [ Laughter ]

09:12:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The last one, 79.

09:12:29 I am not going to live this down.

09:12:31 It's going to be a request to have that continued.

09:12:33 It cannot be heard.

09:12:34 Actually, won't be continued.

09:12:36 It will have to be reset and will be taken up this

09:12:38 afternoon, the date being suggested is December

09:12:40 16th at 10:30 but again that can't be taken up till

09:12:43 1:30.

09:12:44 For those who might be interested in that, that's on

09:12:46 the file number E-2010-8.

09:12:52 The hearing on Kennedy Dale Mabry center incorporated,

09:12:56 that, council, I believe are all the changes to today's

09:12:59 agenda.

09:12:59 I am not aware of anything else.




09:13:01 I hope I haven't missed anything and I present it for

09:13:03 your approval.

09:13:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

09:13:05 Anything else, council?

09:13:08 Motion to approve the changes?

09:13:11 >> Second.

09:13:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The second came before the motion.

09:13:16 [ Laughter ]

09:13:18 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

09:13:21 Opposes?

09:13:23 Thank you.

09:13:28 We will take public comment at this time, comments on

09:13:32 the agenda first.

09:13:33 Anyone wishing to address City Council may come

09:13:35 forward.

09:13:35 Anyone wish to address City Council may come forward.

09:13:38 No one wish to address City Council?

09:13:40 Okay.

09:13:41 Must be a record.

09:13:42 Okay.

09:13:46 No public comment?

09:13:47 Then we'll move to the first item on the agenda, the




09:13:50 ordinance being presented.

09:13:51 Item number 1.

09:13:54 Mr. Stokes, do you want to read that?

09:13:59 >>CURTIS STOKES: Ordinance for first reading

09:14:00 consideration, an ordinance of the city of Tampa,

09:14:02 Florida making revisions to City of Tampa code

09:14:05 ordinance chapter 3 alcoholic beverages, chapter 27

09:14:08 zoning, chapter 28 special events, amending section

09:14:11 3-40 regarding possession of open containers on public

09:14:15 property, amending section 3-41 --

09:14:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Read the substitute.

09:14:24 >>CURTIS STOKES: You started it, Marty.

09:14:26 [ Laughter ]

09:14:27 Substitute ordinance being presented for first reading

09:14:33 consideration.

09:14:33 An ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida making

09:14:35 revisions to City of Tampa code ordinances, chapter 3

09:14:39 alcoholic beverages, chapter 27 zoning, and chapter 28

09:14:42 special events, amending section 3-40, regarding

09:14:46 possession of open containers on public property,

09:14:49 amending section 3-41 regarding possession and

09:14:52 consumption on property operated or supervised by the




09:14:56 Parks and Recreation Department, amending section

09:14:58 27-267 regarding application requirements for special

09:15:02 use permits, amending section 28-28, regarding alcohol

09:15:06 at special events, repealing all ordinances or parts of

09:15:09 ordinances in conflict therewith, providing for

09:15:13 severability, providing an effective date.

09:15:13 >> Second.

09:15:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.

09:15:19 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

09:15:21 Opposes?

09:15:21 >> Motion carried with Miranda being absent.

09:15:30 Second reading will be November 18th at 9:30 a.m.

09:15:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item number 2.

09:15:36 Councilwoman Mulhern.

09:15:37 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance being presented

09:15:40 for first reading consideration, an ordinance of the

09:15:44 city of Tampa, Florida amending City of Tampa code of

09:15:47 ordinances, chapter 22 streets and sidewalks, section

09:15:50 22-156, abandoned news racks, and section 23-5-5,

09:15:58 schedule of violations and penalties, repealing all

09:16:01 ordinances or parts of ordinances in conflict,

09:16:03 providing for severability, providing an effective




09:16:04 date.

09:16:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Capin.

09:16:13 All in favor?

09:16:13 Opposes?

09:16:14 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent.

09:16:17 Second reading of the ordinance will be held November

09:16:20 18th at 9:30 a.m.

09:16:22 >> we move now to our committee reports.

09:16:26 Councilwoman Gwen Miller, public safety 69 move

09:16:29 resolutions 3 through 6.

09:16:32 >>CURTIS STOKES: Second.

09:16:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Stokes.

09:16:34 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

09:16:36 Opposes?

09:16:38 Parks and recreation, councilman Stokes.

09:16:43 >>CURTIS STOKES: Move item 7 through 15, please.

09:16:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have a substitute for item 7,

09:16:47 right?

09:16:48 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe so, yes.

09:16:52 Mr. Chairman, if I can.

09:16:53 I had the opportunity to discuss this with Mr. Stokes.

09:16:57 The agreement references Fifth Third Bank by whom Mr.




09:17:01 Stokes is employed.

09:17:02 I have had the opportunity to review that, and it is my

09:17:07 opinion that that agreement specifically excludes Fifth

09:17:13 Third Bank.

09:17:14 This action that council is taken did not inure to

09:17:17 Fifth Third Bank's special private gain or loss and it

09:17:19 is my professional opinion that as it is Mr. Stokes'

09:17:24 obligation under the Florida statute that he vote for

09:17:26 this item.

09:17:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.

09:17:31 All in favor?

09:17:32 Opposes?

09:17:33 Public works.

09:17:34 Councilwoman Capin.

09:17:41 All right, public works.

09:17:47 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I move item 16.

09:17:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.

09:17:54 All in favor?

09:17:55 Opposed?

09:17:56 Finance Committee.

09:17:56 Councilwoman Mulhern.

09:17:58 >>MARY MULHERN: I move items 17 through 26,




09:18:09 including -- I'm sorry, 17 through 18, and 20 through

09:18:16 26, including a substitute ordinance for number 22,

09:18:28 substituting exhibits A and B.

09:18:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

09:18:36 All in favor?

09:18:36 Opposes?

09:18:38 19 we continued.

09:18:39 >>MARY MULHERN: I move that we continue item number 19

09:18:42 till November 19th.

09:18:43 >> Second.

09:18:47 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That was part of the motion.

09:18:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We already did that.

09:18:50 Okay.

09:18:51 Building and zoning.

09:18:52 Councilman Caetano.

09:18:54 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like to move 27 through

09:18:57 number 40.

09:18:58 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.

09:19:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.

09:19:03 All in favor?

09:19:05 Opposes?

09:19:05 Okay.




09:19:07 Transportation committee.

09:19:08 Councilwoman Capin.

09:19:11 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I move item 41.

09:19:13 >> Second.

09:19:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Stokes.

09:19:18 All in favor?

09:19:19 Opposes?

09:19:20 We set the public hearings.

09:19:21 Item 42 through 45.

09:19:23 >>GWEN MILLER: So moved.

09:19:24 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.

09:19:25 >> All in favor?

09:19:38 Opposes?

09:19:38 All right.

09:19:39 We are now under the 9:30 items which we can't take up

09:19:42 right now.

09:19:43 Is that right?

09:19:44 Let's move to new business.

09:19:51 >>CURTIS STOKES: I would like to ask if we could have

09:19:55 for a presentation on the campaign next scheduled board

09:20:00 meeting.

09:20:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That would be regular meeting, the




09:20:03 18th.

09:20:04 Is there a second?

09:20:07 Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.

09:20:09 All in favor?

09:20:10 Opposes?

09:20:12 Okay.

09:20:14 Councilwoman Mulhern?

09:20:18 Councilwoman Miller? Councilwoman Capin?

09:20:21 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you, chairman.

09:20:22 Please, I would like to make a motion to present a

09:20:25 commendation to Tyler Shoray, a Boy Scout in troop 45,

09:20:32 for attaining the rank of Eagle Scout.

09:20:38 >> Second.

09:20:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?

09:20:40 Opposes?

09:20:41 Councilman Caetano?

09:20:43 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: What's that?

09:20:47 >> New business?

09:20:48 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I have no new business other

09:20:51 than -- well, I'll tell you later.

09:20:53 [ Laughter ]

09:20:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: In session you mean?




09:21:01 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I got a call this morning to take

09:21:03 a truck to Tallahassee with some fresh brooms.

09:21:07 I don't know what they are going to do with it.

09:21:08 I told them I couldn't go, that I have a meeting.

09:21:12 [ Laughter ]

09:21:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, thank you.

09:21:22 I'm going to leave that one alone.

09:21:26 I'm going to leave that alone.

09:21:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: There's an item of new business on

09:21:31 your addendum, a request by Jean Dorzback a memorandum

09:21:35 requesting scheduling of a workshop on January 27th

09:21:40 and suggested time by the clerk's office 10 a.m.

09:21:42 regarding the final draft of the amendments to chapter

09:21:45 25, your TCEA procedures, amendments to chapter 17.5

09:21:50 concurrency management.

09:21:51 If that could be set for a workshop per the request of

09:21:54 the transportation division.

09:21:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And time is 10:00.

09:22:00 Is there a motion?

09:22:02 Second to that?

09:22:04 >> Second.

09:22:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and sec he had.




09:22:06 All in favor?

09:22:07 Opposes?

09:22:10 I have an item that I need to bring to our attention,

09:22:14 council.

09:22:15 And I believe in Sunday's paper there was an article

09:22:19 about the abandoned property or the property over on

09:22:23 Dale Mabry and Gray Street, the house that was there.

09:22:27 What I would like to do is request administration to

09:22:29 appear before us at our next regular meeting and to

09:22:34 really give us a report on how we can assist and help

09:22:39 to maybe identify or look at how many of these areas

09:22:42 are like this, or how many of these -- what we can do

09:22:46 to secure them, and what is being done to secure them,

09:22:51 if council needs to pass an ordinance to address that

09:22:54 issue so that we can make sure that those properties

09:22:56 such as have been put up for sale or whatever, that the

09:23:01 neighborhoods are not invaded or become insecure

09:23:07 because of those who may be living in those facilities.

09:23:10 So what I would like to do again is ask the

09:23:12 administration to appear before us at our next meeting

09:23:15 to talk about this issue, and to look at what we can do

09:23:20 as a council or as administration to work towards




09:23:24 making sure those places are safe and secure.

09:23:27 >>MARY MULHERN: That's the one on Dale Mabry?

09:23:29 >> Yes.

09:23:32 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Second.

09:23:32 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.

09:23:34 All in favor?

09:23:35 Opposed?

09:23:35 >> okay.

09:23:36 Also, I also would like to have the administration and

09:23:42 legal to look at how does this fall in line with the

09:23:46 ordinance we passed relative to foreclosed property or

09:23:50 abandoned property, how they have been registered and

09:23:56 monitored.

09:23:56 I would like them to come along with that report as

09:24:00 well.

09:24:00 We can include that as part of the motion.

09:24:03 Is that something we can do?

09:24:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.

09:24:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So let's include that.

09:24:07 Is that okay?

09:24:09 Okay.

09:24:11 Any other new business before us?




09:24:14 Is there any item that we can take up?

09:24:16 We still have five minutes before 9:30 since we all

09:24:19 moved real fast this morning.

09:24:20 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And that's in spite of me taking

09:24:23 extra time.

09:24:26 Council, there's item 68 under staff reports.

09:24:33 It's just ministerial, ratifying your appointments to

09:24:36 the equal business advisory committee that you

09:24:38 originally did.

09:24:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So we can take that.

09:24:42 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just have to move the resolution.

09:24:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Move the resolution.

09:24:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Stokes.

09:24:49 Item number 68.

09:24:51 On those appointments we made at our meeting.

09:24:53 Okay?

09:24:54 Moved and seconded.

09:24:55 All in favor?

09:24:56 Opposes?

09:24:57 Okay.

09:24:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Ms. Kert says we can take up item 62

09:25:13 because it was also taken up as part of item 2, the




09:25:16 news rack ordinance.

09:25:17 >>REBECCA KERT: I was here about making a revision

09:25:22 regarding the abandoned news racks which I did under

09:25:25 number 2, so actually number 62 is now complete.

09:25:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 62.

09:25:30 So do we have a motion on that?

09:25:38 Moved by councilman Stokes, seconded by Councilwoman

09:25:42 Capin.

09:25:42 All in favor?

09:25:43 Opposes?

09:25:44 Okay.

09:25:45 Is there anything else we can take up before 9:30?

09:25:52 Then why don't we just take a four-minute break,

09:25:59 four-minute recess and then come back.

09:26:03 (Recess)

09:29:38

09:32:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come to

09:34:50 order.

09:34:51 Roll call.

09:05:34 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.

09:05:37 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Here.

09:05:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.




09:05:42 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.

09:05:43 >>CURTIS STOKES: Here.

09:05:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.

09:34:58 Okay.

09:34:59 We'll pick up now our 9:30 items.

09:35:06 Which is our first one will be item 46.

09:35:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to open.

09:35:15 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Second.

09:35:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?

09:35:19 This is all our second reading on public hearings.

09:35:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The motion was to open up all of

09:35:25 them?

09:35:27 >> Yes.

09:35:28 Item 46.

09:35:29 Item 46.

09:35:30 Anyone from the public wish to address council on item

09:35:37 46?

09:35:37 >> Good morning.

09:35:42 I have not been sworn.

09:35:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: This is a nonquasi-judicial item.

09:35:48 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: My name is John Grandoff.

09:35:50 Residence 4611 Tennison Avenue in Sunset Park.




09:35:54 I'm here to speak to you on item 46 and urge you to

09:35:58 pass this ordinance on second reading for the simple

09:36:03 reason that it lends dignity to your office and the

09:36:08 office of the City Council, and I will leave it at

09:36:13 that.

09:36:14 Thank you very much.

09:36:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else from the public?

09:36:21 Yes, Councilwoman Mulhern.

09:36:22 >>MARY MULHERN: I had a question for Chip.

09:36:27 Not here.

09:36:35 Any lawyer.

09:36:37 [ Laughter ]

09:36:40 >>SAL TERRITO: Legal department.

09:36:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Grandoff is a lawyer, now.

09:36:45 >>MARY MULHERN: I wanted to hear what Mr. Grandoff was

09:36:50 going to say, because I disagree with this that it adds

09:36:53 dignity to our office.

09:36:55 Here is my question.

09:36:56 We didn't really have a discussion about this when it

09:36:58 passed on first reading.

09:36:59 But since it did pass, a lot of people have said to me

09:37:03 that they question whether was -- could be




09:37:09 Constitutionally challenged, that we are subverting the

09:37:15 will of the voters and that we as a local City Council

09:37:18 would be telling people who can and can't run for

09:37:22 office.

09:37:29 >>SAL TERRITO: Saved by the bell.

09:37:30 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: City attorney.

09:37:35 I'm sorry, I did not hear the question.

09:37:37 >>MARY MULHERN: Since this got passed on first reading

09:37:40 a lot of people questioned to me whether this could be

09:37:44 challenged Constitutionally because it's kind of

09:37:48 subverting the decision of voters and citizens about

09:37:54 whether they should be able to run for office.

09:37:58 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Yes, that sentiment, that argument

09:38:01 is the same essential argument that was made regarding

09:38:06 term limits, and the courts have held that legislative

09:38:11 bodies like yourself, local governments, have broad

09:38:13 discretion to set standards for seeking office as long

09:38:17 as there is a rational basis for that decision.

09:38:22 It's not subject to strict scrutiny.

09:38:26 So long as it doesn't effect the protected class,

09:38:30 gender, race, national origin, et cetera.

09:38:33 So in this case, it's pretty clear, I think, on its




09:38:41 face it's valid provided that council is able to

09:38:44 articulate a rational basis for the decision, and then

09:38:48 these types of ordinances can also be challenged as

09:38:52 applied.

09:38:53 We would have to evaluate that when in fact it was

09:38:56 challenged as applied.

09:38:57 But in the term limit cases and the other cases where

09:39:01 you do have a restriction on someone running after

09:39:03 resigning, they have been upheld in other states.

09:39:07 >>MARY MULHERN: For a new election?

09:39:10 It's a new election.

09:39:11 That's write don't see it as totally as to term limits.

09:39:17 The term limit is per term.

09:39:21 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Right.

09:39:24 And many local governments have what they call a

09:39:26 cooling-off period where you can't run offer you

09:39:28 complete those terms, or you can't --

09:39:31 >>MARY MULHERN: But do they have it in this case?

09:39:34 We have that.

09:39:37 If you served two terms in two different district

09:39:41 consecutively, you can't run again.

09:39:43 Is that correct?




09:39:46 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: You can switch between district

09:39:47 and city-wide seats.

09:39:49 We do not have a cooling-off period.

09:39:51 >>MARY MULHERN: So you could continually keep

09:39:55 switching districts?

09:39:58 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Yes, ma'am.

09:39:58 >>MARY MULHERN: To me, to put a limitation on that,

09:40:03 that makes sense.

09:40:04 Or even after two terms to say you have to take four

09:40:08 terms off.

09:40:08 But to tell someone who has only served one term that

09:40:11 they can't come back and run for a second term, to me

09:40:16 it doesn't seem fair.

09:40:17 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: And that's council's choice.

09:40:21 And I can understand that.

09:40:23 The cases where these types of things have been upheld,

09:40:26 the courts have looked to --

09:40:30 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, is there a case that's like

09:40:33 this, a resign to run slash -- to come back and run

09:40:38 for --

09:40:40 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I do not have my case file in

09:40:43 front of me, but in the northeast there is a state




09:40:46 statute that prevents people from coming back after

09:40:50 resigning.

09:40:52 Now, there's cases where they have been enforced, which

09:40:55 would apply here; where scenarios where folks resigned

09:41:03 under a cloud of some sort.

09:41:04 In some cases where that was challenged, the individual

09:41:07 was indicted, I believe, and then acquitted or

09:41:11 convicted and then overturned on appeal.

09:41:13 I don't remember the exact factual scenario.

09:41:16 Taught sought to come back to the next election, and

09:41:19 that statute prohibited him from doing that, and that

09:41:21 statute was upheld.

09:41:23 A similar type of case are these cooling-off periods

09:41:28 where they have been extended, therefore affecting the

09:41:33 ability of past council members to run again for a

09:41:37 longer period of time, even though they have completed

09:41:40 their term limit.

09:41:42 So they are not exactly the same.

09:41:44 But they are kind of similar.

09:41:46 But all of these types of things usually are somewhat

09:41:49 unique, and this certainly is a unique one as well, to

09:41:54 my knowledge.




09:41:54 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, I think -- whatever.

09:42:02 You answered my questions.

09:42:03 But I don't see that it's that clearly -- there's that

09:42:08 clearly a residents for this and I figure if anybody

09:42:11 wanted to challenge it, I think they might have a case.

09:42:16 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: If I could just address that

09:42:19 clearly.

09:42:20 On its face, council has the authority to do this, I

09:42:24 believe.

09:42:25 The question is then how it's evaluated as applied to a

09:42:30 particular candidate, and I can't address that answer

09:42:32 for you because it would depend on the facts of that

09:42:35 particular candidate.

09:42:36 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.

09:42:37 Well, what about -- I don't see a candidate necessarily

09:42:41 challenging it, but I think what I have been hearing

09:42:45 from who I have been hearing from are voters.

09:42:48 So -- okay.

09:42:52 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: The folks that have standing

09:42:55 typically are the candidates.

09:42:56 I'm not aware of a case where a voter has been able to

09:42:59 directly challenge one of these on their face.




09:43:02 I'm not saying it couldn't happen.

09:43:03 But typically the cases are as applied to a voter --

09:43:08 I'm sorry, as applied to a candidate, not a voter.

09:43:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: First of all, anything can be

09:43:15 challenged.

09:43:17 Whether it's upheld, that's a different issue.

09:43:20 We had originally a number of court cases that's been

09:43:23 challenged for various reasons.

09:43:24 So therefore anything could be challenged by anybody.

09:43:28 If they have the money and they want to go to court,

09:43:31 they can do that.

09:43:31 That's one.

09:43:32 Secondly, it is my understanding that the structure of

09:43:35 this is if I have served on City Council, whether it be

09:43:41 one term or two year, and I decide to run for another

09:43:45 office, desire to run for another office, I resign from

09:43:50 my seat to run for another office, and I go to run

09:43:55 somewhere else, and I lose, then all of a sudden I want

09:43:57 to come back, I think that's what it's addressing here,

09:44:03 is that there's opportunity for people to understand

09:44:08 that if I want to run anyway for City Council,

09:44:10 whatever, I guess I should have applied or stayed




09:44:16 there, whatever it is.

09:44:17 That's the intent.

09:44:18 But certainly we don't want to give people the

09:44:24 opportunity where they can become, I guess, make this a

09:44:29 career, I guess it is, what it sounds like, they become

09:44:32 a career politician, that they just bounce around here

09:44:35 and there and run for everything, is what it sounds

09:44:37 like to me.

09:44:38 And an open opportunity for new people to run as well.

09:44:45 One of the things that's important here is a lot of

09:44:49 times is -- and that's what attorneys are supposed to

09:44:52 do, give opportunities for -- again I'm not a strong

09:44:55 advocate for term limits, but at the same time it

09:44:59 affords opportunity for new people to come and run for

09:45:01 the office.

09:45:02 I do believe there's value in institutional knowledge

09:45:04 as well, you know.

09:45:05 So I think that's why -- of course, councilman Miranda

09:45:11 brought this forth a few months ago and then councilman

09:45:14 Caetano brought it back a couple of weeks ago.

09:45:18 Yes, sir, councilman Caetano.

09:45:19 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, thank you.




09:45:21 This is not about any particular person or persons.

09:45:26 This will expand the participation of new people who

09:45:29 want to become a City Councilor.

09:45:32 They have new ideas, new blood.

09:45:35 It will diminish the power of incumbency.

09:45:41 Like Reverend Scott said, people make it a career, and

09:45:44 that's not what we want.

09:45:46 This will reduce the opportunity of people that want to

09:45:48 gain the system and be here, whether they were

09:45:53 convicted of a crime or essentially left on some legal

09:45:57 matters and decide they want to come back.

09:46:00 It shouldn't be used for that.

09:46:01 And that's what is going to prevent this.

09:46:06 Thank you.

09:46:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think also you need to speak to the

09:46:09 issue, because it's my understanding this only governs

09:46:13 City Council.

09:46:13 It does not govern any other municipalities or any

09:46:16 other race.

09:46:17 Only the City Council elections.

09:46:19 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Yes.

09:46:21 It only applies to folks that have resigned for office




09:46:25 or left office or been removed from office and then

09:46:28 want to seek that same type of office again.

09:46:31 So it doesn't preclude running for other offices, other

09:46:36 jurisdictions.

09:46:38 It's simply addressing a council member who has not

09:46:41 completed their term, whether they resigned or were

09:46:45 removed, and seeks to somehow undo that decision or

09:46:50 undo that removal by getting the voters to then

09:46:56 reinstate them, essentially.

09:46:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?

09:47:04 Okay.

09:47:05 Anything you need to add?

09:47:07 >> No, no, ma'am.

09:47:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

09:47:09 Motion to close?

09:47:11 Moved and second.

09:47:17 Councilwoman Miller?

09:47:19 >>GWEN MILLER: An ordinance moved for second reading,

09:47:22 an ordinance of the City of Tampa creating section 10-3

09:47:25 of the City of Tampa code of ordinance, providing for

09:47:28 additional limitations or reelections to City Council

09:47:34 after resignation or removal from office, providing for




09:47:38 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an

09:47:39 effective date.

09:47:39 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That is a motion to adopt?

09:47:42 >>GWEN MILLER: A motion to adopt for second reading.

09:47:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Stokes.

09:47:48 Record your vote.

09:47:53 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Capin and Mulhern

09:47:56 voting no, and Miranda being absent.

09:47:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

09:48:03 We need to swear all the witnesses in at this time.

09:48:06 If you are going to be addressing City Council, please

09:48:08 stand to be sworn at this time.

09:48:22 Oat oath.

09:48:23 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I ask that all documents received by

09:48:27 City Council office be received and filed into the

09:48:30 record at this time.

09:48:31 >> Motion.

09:48:32 >> Second.

09:48:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?

09:48:34 Opposes?

09:48:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And if you have had any ex parte

09:48:38 communications relative to any of today's hearings




09:48:40 please before your vote disclose the sum and substance

09:48:43 of that communication, with whom that occurred.

09:48:45 Finally if you do speak today, please make sure that

09:48:47 you have signed the sign-in sheet at the lectern

09:48:50 outside.

09:48:51 Thank you very much.

09:48:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 47.

09:48:55 Item 47.

09:48:56 Anyone wish to address council on item 47?

09:48:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.

09:49:01 >> Second.

09:49:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

09:49:04 All in favor?

09:49:05 Councilman Caetano.

09:49:06 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: An ordinance for second reading

09:49:09 and adoption.

09:49:10 An ordinance vacating, closing, discontinuing,

09:49:13 abandoning certain right-of-way of way alleyway lying

09:49:17 north south of 1th Avenue, north of interstate

09:49:21 highway 4, east of cord street, and west of 46th

09:49:25 street in Oak Park subdivision a subdivision in the

09:49:28 City of Tampa, Hillsborough County Florida the same




09:49:30 being more fully described in section 2 hereof subject

09:49:33 to certain easements, covenants, conditions and

09:49:36 restrictions as more particularly described herein

09:49:39 providing an effective date.

09:49:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.

09:49:42 Record your vote, please.

09:49:43 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Capin absent at vote

09:49:57 and Miranda being absent.

09:49:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 48.

09:50:01 Anyone from the public wish to address council on item

09:50:04 48?

09:50:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.

09:50:07 >> Second.

09:50:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

09:50:10 All in favor?

09:50:11 Opposes?

09:50:14 Item 48 is a substitute.

09:50:15 Councilman Stokes, would you read the substitute?

09:50:19 >>GWEN MILLER: At the bottom of the painful.

09:50:21 >>CURTIS STOKES: Thank you.

09:50:21 Substitute ordinance being presented for second reading

09:50:23 and adoption.




09:50:24 An ordinance approving an historic preservation

09:50:27 property tax exemption application relative to the

09:50:29 restoration, renovation or rehabilitation of certain

09:50:31 property owned by Michael S. Ward and Giselle V. Ward

09:50:39 located at 407 South Royal Palm Way, Tampa, Florida in

09:50:43 the Beach Park multiple properties designation historic

09:50:46 district, based upon certain findings, providing for

09:50:48 notice to the property appraiser of Hillsborough

09:50:50 County, providing for severability, providing for

09:50:53 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an

09:50:55 effective date.

09:50:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.

09:50:59 Record your vote, please.

09:51:00 >> Motion carried with Capin being absent at vote and

09:51:11 Miranda being absent.

09:51:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 4849.

09:51:15 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land Development Coordination.

09:51:18 Items number 49 through 61 on your agenda this morning

09:51:22 require certified site plans.

09:51:24 The zoning administrator has certified all site plans

09:51:28 with the exception of item number 50 which she is

09:51:32 reviewing at this moment, she asks if that can be




09:51:37 continued until 1:30 this afternoon.

09:51:41 And item number 60 was not able to be certified, and

09:51:45 that would need to be continued to the next morning

09:51:48 meeting which would be November 18th at 9:30.

09:51:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 60?

09:51:55 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Yes, sir.

09:51:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And continue it to the 1th at

09:51:59 9:30.

09:51:59 So we need a motion to continue item 50 to 1:30.

09:52:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If we can, is the petitioner here on

09:52:07 item 50?

09:52:10 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Yes.

09:52:11 I spoke with him this morning.

09:52:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Item number 50, Mr. Chairman, is a

09:52:14 case where it was a 4-3 vote on first reading, and

09:52:18 councilman Miranda is not here today, and I am

09:52:21 wondering rather than come back, unless the

09:52:26 petitioner -- may I ask the petitioner to come forward,

09:52:30 please, Mr. Chairman, with your indulgence?

09:52:33 >> Yes.

09:52:34 Petitioner, if you would come forward.

09:52:36 >> Do you want to do 49?




09:52:41 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Well, in what order do you want to

09:52:43 take it up?

09:52:46 >> Item 50.

09:52:47 My recommendation is that he may want to continue it to

09:52:50 when we have a full board, because.

09:53:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Under your new rules if there is a

09:53:02 tie vote it is continue to the next date when there is

09:53:04 a full council present.

09:53:06 It may be in council's best interest and petitioner's

09:53:11 best interest to continue this to a regular meeting

09:53:12 when the full council is present.

09:53:15 Do you have any objection to having that continued?

09:53:19 >> No, sir.

09:53:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, do you want to take it

09:53:23 up in order or take it when we come to it?

09:53:27 >> Well, to continue it to the 1th, we can go ahead

09:53:30 and include that in item 60.

09:53:31 Both can be continued to the morning of the 18th.

09:53:33 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: So moved, Mr. Chairman.

09:53:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did you want to ask if there's

09:53:39 anybody that wants to address the continuance?

09:53:41 >> Anyone here who wishes to address the continuance on




09:53:45 50 or 60?

09:53:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I see no one.

09:53:55 So it will be to continue to the 18th at 9:30 a.m.

09:54:01 All in favor?

09:54:02 Opposes?

09:54:04 Item 49.

09:54:05 Anyone from the public wish to address council on item

09:54:08 49?

09:54:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.

09:54:10 >> Second.

09:54:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

09:54:13 All in favor?

09:54:14 Councilwoman Mulhern.

09:54:15 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance being presented

09:54:19 for second reading and adoption, an ordinance approving

09:54:22 a special use permit S-2 approving a place of religious

09:54:25 assembly in an RS-60 residential single-family zoning

09:54:28 district in the general vicinity of 1106 east 109th

09:54:34 Avenue in the city of Tampa, Florida and as more

09:54:36 particularly described in section 1 hereof providing an

09:54:40 effective date.

09:54:44 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Second.




09:54:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Caetano.

09:54:48 Record your vote, please.

09:54:49 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent.

09:54:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 51.

09:55:02 Item 51.

09:55:02 Anyone wish to address council on item 51?

09:55:05 >> My name is Walter AME, residence 810 south Edison.

09:55:15 I'm here on behalf of Thad's gourmet restaurant and its

09:55:23 110 employees.

09:55:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Does anyone else here quantity to

09:55:26 speak in opposition to this petition?

09:55:27 Okay.

09:55:28 Motion to close?

09:55:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion to close.

09:55:30 >> Second.

09:55:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?

09:55:32 Opposes?

09:55:33 >>GWEN MILLER: I move to adopt the following ordinance

09:55:35 upon second reading, an ordinance repealing ordinance

09:55:39 2008-166, an ordinance approving a special use permit

09:55:43 S-2 for alcoholic beverages sales, small venue making

09:55:47 lawful the sale of beverages containing alcohol




09:55:49 regardless of alcoholic content beer, wine and liquor

09:55:53 4(COP) for consumption on the premises and in sealed

09:55:56 containers for consumption off the premises on that

09:55:58 certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 2616

09:56:02 South MacDill Avenue, Tampa, Florida, as more

09:56:06 particularly described in section 2 hereof, providing

09:56:08 for repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an

09:56:11 effective date.

09:56:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

09:56:15 Record your vote, please.

09:56:16 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried westbound Miranda being

09:56:22 absent.

09:56:22 >> Thank you all very much.

09:56:25 Please have a great day.

09:56:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

09:56:27 Item 52.

09:56:29 Anyone wish to address council on item 572?

09:56:31 69 move to close.

09:56:33 >> Second.

09:56:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

09:56:35 All in favor?

09:56:36 Opposes?




09:56:37 Item 52.

09:56:38 Councilwoman Capin.

09:56:42 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I move an ordinance being presented for

09:56:44 second reading and adoption, an ordinance approving a

09:56:46 special use permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales,

09:56:49 small venue and making lawful the sale of beverages

09:56:52 containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight and not

09:56:55 more than 14% by weight and wines regardless of

09:56:59 alcoholic content, beer and wine 2(APS), in sealed

09:57:04 containers for consumption off premises only at or from

09:57:08 that certain lot, plot or tract of land located ate

09:57:11 2111 east Busch Boulevard, Tampa, Florida, as more

09:57:15 particularly described in section 2 hereof providing

09:57:19 for repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an

09:57:22 effective date.

09:57:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Stokes.

09:57:27 Record your vote, please.

09:57:28 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent.

09:57:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 53.

09:57:41 Anyone wish to address council on item 53?

09:57:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.

09:57:46 >> Second.




09:57:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?

09:57:49 Opposes?

09:57:51 Item 53.

09:57:53 Councilman Caetano.

09:57:54 >> An ordinance being presented for second reading and

09:57:58 adoption, an ordinance approving a special use permit

09:58:00 S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales, small venue and

09:58:03 making lawful the sale of beverages containing alcohol

09:58:05 of more than 1% by weight an not more than 14% by

09:58:09 weight and wines regardless of alcoholic content beer

09:58:12 and wine 2(APS) in sealed containers for consumption

09:58:15 off premises only at or from that certain lot, plot or

09:58:20 tract of land located at 3917 north Nebraska Avenue,

09:58:24 Tampa, Florida, as more particularly described in

09:58:26 section 2 hereof, providing for repeal of all

09:58:31 ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.

09:58:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Capin.

09:58:40 Record your vote.

09:58:41 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent.

09:58:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 54.

09:58:51 Anyone from the public wish to address council on item

09:58:54 54?




09:58:54 >> Move to close.

09:59:04 >> Second.

09:59:04 (Motion carried).

09:59:07 >>CURTIS STOKES: An ordinance for second reading and

09:59:09 adoption, an ordinance approving special use permit S-2

09:59:13 for alcoholic beverage sales small venue and making

09:59:16 lawful the sale of beverages containing alcohol of more

09:59:18 than 1% by weight and not more than 14% by weight and

09:59:21 wines regardless of alcoholic content beer and wine

09:59:25 2(APS) in sealed containers for consumption off

09:59:27 premises only at or from that certain lot plot or tract

09:59:30 of land located at 473 West Gandy Boulevard, Tampa,

09:59:33 Florida as more particularly described in section 2

09:59:35 hereof providing for repeal of all ordinances in

09:59:38 conflict, providing an effective date.

09:59:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

09:59:44 All in favor?

09:59:46 Record your vote.

09:59:48 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent.

09:59:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 55.

09:59:58 Anyone from the public wish to address council?

10:00:00 >> moved and seconded.




10:00:08 >>MARY MULHERN: Move an ordinance being presented for

10:00:11 second reading and adoption, an ordinance approving a

10:00:13 special use ferment permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage

10:00:16 sales small venue and making lawful the sale of

10:00:18 beverages containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight

10:00:21 and not more than 14% by weight and wines regardless of

10:00:24 alcoholic content beer and wine 2(APS) in sealed

10:00:27 containers for consumption off premises only at or from

10:00:30 that certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 3016

10:00:34 West Gandy Boulevard, Tampa, Florida as more

10:00:36 particularly described in section 2 hereof providing

10:00:39 for repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an

10:00:42 effective date.

10:00:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Caetano.

10:00:50 Record your vote.

10:00:50 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent.

10:00:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 56.

10:01:00 Anyone from the public wish to address council on item

10:01:02 56?

10:01:05 Moved and seconded.

10:01:06 All in favor?

10:01:10 >>GWEN MILLER: I move to adopt the following ordinance




10:01:12 upon second reading, an ordinance approving a special

10:01:14 use permit S-2 alcoholic beverage sales small venue

10:01:18 making lawful the sale of beverages containing alcohol

10:01:21 of more than 1% by weight and not more than 14% by

10:01:25 weight and wines regardless of alcoholic content beer

10:01:27 and wine 2(APS) in sealed containers for consumption

10:01:31 off premises only at or from that certain lot, plot or

10:01:36 tract of land located at 25502 and 2504 North Armenia

10:01:41 Avenue, Tampa, Florida as more particularly described

10:01:43 in section 2 hereof, providing for repeal of all

10:01:46 ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.

10:01:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Stokes.

10:01:52 Record your vote, please.

10:01:53 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent.

10:02:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 57.

10:02:02 Item 57.

10:02:03 Anyone from the public wish to address council?

10:02:07 Motion to close, please.

10:02:08 >> Motion to close.

10:02:13 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Second.

10:02:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 57.

10:02:17 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Move an ordinance being presented for




10:02:19 second reading and adoption, an ordinance approving a

10:02:21 special use permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales

10:02:24 small venue and making lawful the sale of beverages

10:02:26 containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight an not

10:02:30 more than 14% by weight and wines regardless of

10:02:33 alcoholic content beer and wine 2(COP) for consumption

10:02:37 on premises and in sealed containers for consumption

10:02:41 off premises at or from that certain lot, plot or tract

10:02:44 of land located at 1540 North Franklin Street and 1609

10:02:50 North Tampa Street, Tampa, Florida as more particularly

10:02:53 described in section 2 hereof providing for repeal of

10:02:56 all ordinances in conflict, providing an effective

10:02:59 date.

10:02:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.

10:03:04 Record your vote, please.

10:03:05 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent.

10:03:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 58.

10:03:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.

10:03:18 >> Second.

10:03:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?

10:03:20 Councilman Caetano.

10:03:22 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: An ordinance presented for second




10:03:24 reading and adoption, an ordinance rezoning property in

10:03:27 the general vicinity of 2205 north Dundee street in the

10:03:30 city of Tampa, Florida and more particularly described

10:03:32 in section 1 from zoning district classifications RS-75

10:03:35 residential single-family to PD planned development

10:03:38 single-family detached, providing an effective date.

10:03:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.

10:03:50 Record your vote, please.

10:03:52 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent.

10:03:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 59.

10:04:01 Anyone from the public wishing to address counsel on

10:04:04 item 59?

10:04:05 >> Move to close.

10:04:05 >> Second.

10:04:08 >>CURTIS STOKES: An ordinance presented on sec reading

10:04:09 and adoption, an ordinance rezoning property in the

10:04:12 general vicinity of 3518 Henderson Boulevard and 3409

10:04:16 and 3411 West Swann Avenue in the city of Tampa,

10:04:18 Florida and more particularly described in section 1

10:04:22 from zoning district classifications CG commercial

10:04:26 general and RM-24 residential multifamily to PD planned

10:04:30 development, retail, pharmacy with drive-in window,




10:04:33 providing an effective date.

10:04:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Capin.

10:04:37 Record your vote, please.

10:04:38 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent.

10:04:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 61.

10:04:49 Item 61.

10:04:50 Anyone from the public wish to address council on item

10:04:52 61?

10:04:53 >> Move to close.

10:04:58 >>

10:04:59 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.

10:04:59 (Motion carried).

10:05:03 (Motion carried).

10:05:03 >>MARY MULHERN: Move an ordinance for second reading

10:05:06 and adoption, an ordinance rezoning property in the

10:05:10 general vicinity of 4109, 4111 and 4113 West Cypress

10:05:14 street in the city of Tampa, Florida and more

10:05:16 particularly described in section 1 from zoning

10:05:18 district classifications RS-50 residential

10:05:21 single-family and PD planned development, office,

10:05:23 business professional, to PD, planned development,

10:05:26 office, business professional, providing an effective




10:05:27 date.

10:05:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Capin.

10:05:31 Record your vote, please.

10:05:33 Roll call.

10:05:33 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Yes.

10:05:37 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes.

10:05:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.

10:05:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.

10:05:44 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.

10:05:46 >>CURTIS STOKES: Yes.

10:05:46 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent.

10:05:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We'll take up now our staff reports at

10:05:55 10:00 item.

10:05:58 Item 64.

10:06:05 Pits council's rule, I believe, relative to, I guess,

10:06:08 the parking fees, the fees that -- 64.

10:06:17 >> What about 62?

10:06:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It's been taken care of as a result

10:06:23 of passing the ordinance earlier.

10:06:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 63 has been continued.

10:06:28 64.

10:06:37 Anybody here for 64?




10:06:38 >>JULIA COLE: City of Tampa legal department.

10:06:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The crosswalk.

10:06:47 >>JULIA COLE: I understand Mr. Lee was not able to be

10:06:50 here this morning, but they are reducing the fee down

10:06:53 to a rate which is approximately just about half of

10:06:56 what it is today.

10:06:57 If there's any questions, we can go ahead and continue

10:07:00 the item but if you are comfortable moving forward, I

10:07:03 think all of the backup information is in the record.

10:07:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council, do you have any question?

10:07:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Move the resolution.

10:07:09 >> Second.

10:07:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

10:07:15 All in favor?

10:07:16 Opposes?

10:07:17 Again, this is the sidewalk fees being reduced down, I

10:07:23 think $29 a linear foot.

10:07:27 Okay.

10:07:28 Item 66.

10:07:32 Item 66.

10:07:35 Legal department.

10:07:35 >> I just spoke to Ms. Coyle and she is on her way over




10:07:39 to give a report about this particular item.

10:07:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I guess we are moving too fast today.

10:07:44 >>JULIA COLE: If you want me to go ahead and start the

10:07:51 item prior to Ms. Coyle, but she has the ordinances

10:07:54 that she wanted to hand out.

10:07:55 And I could just go ahead and procedurally tell you

10:07:58 what we have in front of us right now.

10:08:01 And I would be able to talk long enough that she is now

10:08:04 walking in the door.

10:08:10 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.

10:08:12 I did -- this is not an official report.

10:08:15 I am going to give to the you verbally.

10:08:16 I just brought some interesting information in my

10:08:19 research on drive-throughs.

10:08:32 The ordinance I handed you -- and it sad Charlie is not

10:08:37 here.

10:08:37 He was the chairman when this went through.

10:08:39 The ordinance went through in the 1999 that actually

10:08:41 changed drive-in windows for banks, restaurants, and --

10:08:47 banks and restaurants and regular drive-in windows

10:08:50 associated with any other use, to a special use 2 in

10:08:55 the CG district.




10:08:58 What that came from after my research and speaking with

10:09:00 the former zoning administrator, and looking back at

10:09:04 the cases that came through the city and permitting,

10:09:09 there was a drive-through associated with a pharmacy

10:09:13 that was constructed on Henderson Boulevard, and

10:09:16 apparently there was a complaint from the neighbor

10:09:18 after it was constructed to City Council, and due to

10:09:22 that complaint, City Council at that time looked into

10:09:24 the regulations of drive-in windows, and responded with

10:09:29 directing a change to make them special uses for public

10:09:32 hearings.

10:09:34 So that the public would have the opportunity to come

10:09:36 and speak about them in that particular district.

10:09:40 There was also a change in that ordinance.

10:09:42 You can see I highlighted on the second page that they

10:09:44 would become special use 1 requests in the OP, OP-1 and

10:09:50 CI district for bank drive-ins, and S-1 in a CI

10:09:54 district for restaurant drive-ins.

10:09:57 So as it happens even today, if you hear a City Council

10:10:03 issue that comes from the public on certain uses or

10:10:06 certain items that come forward, occasionally you will

10:10:09 ask us to look at those and do some research.




10:10:12 I believe that's probably what occurred.

10:10:14 I wasn't here, obviously, 12 or 13 years ago, but

10:10:17 that's what occurred, and council directed that change.

10:10:22 That's about it.

10:10:23 I will say, also, in the next cycle, we will be looking

10:10:27 at the special uses that we have.

10:10:32 When you look at the use table, there are potential

10:10:35 conflicts or discrepancies between many of these that

10:10:38 we have.

10:10:39 As you can see with this direction that was done in

10:10:41 '99, we have had many changes like this that have been

10:10:45 kind of ad hoc, use becomes an issue and all of a

10:10:49 sudden becomes a special use.

10:10:50 What we plan to do in the January cycle is to go back

10:10:52 and evaluate all the tables including all the special

10:10:57 uses and make sure that they are trued up, if an

10:11:00 underlying use is allowed, should this still be a

10:11:03 special use or similar use as in other districts.

10:11:06 So we will be bringing that forward in the January

10:11:08 cycle.

10:11:08 >> So the January cycle, this would include this as

10:11:14 well?




10:11:15 >> I am not saying we are going to change anything with

10:11:19 this in particular unless you direct it.

10:11:20 We are going to be looking at all of the special uses,

10:11:24 and making sure that they are consistent similar use

10:11:27 categories are consistent and how they are applied and

10:11:29 processed.

10:11:30 >> I think, though, what caused this was the -- I think

10:11:35 the bank came back to get a window, and they sat

10:11:38 through the process, and I think you raised that.

10:11:41 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: What it was on Fowler Avenue,

10:11:46 Fifth Third Bank wanted to put a window in the back and

10:11:49 it was opposed by SunTrust next door who doesn't have a

10:11:52 window.

10:11:54 And I think that's what brought it up.

10:11:56 And I didn't think it was necessary for them to come

10:11:58 here for -- unless they are there are neighbors in the

10:12:01 back, and there are no neighbors other than the mall.

10:12:05 I want to ask one other question.

10:12:07 I don't know if we have it in this city but I know in

10:12:10 Temple Terrace there's a place where you can go by

10:12:13 alcoholic beverages up to a window.

10:12:15 All right.




10:12:15 Then you have drycleaners where they drop their stuff

10:12:18 off through a window.

10:12:19 So are you going to review all of that?

10:12:22 >> If it's within the CG district it would be one that

10:12:25 would come to you, and the changes are made city-wide.

10:12:29 Not necessarily any review of certain geographical

10:12:32 locations within the city.

10:12:33 It was just this use, this thing within the entire

10:12:36 city.

10:12:37 We could go back and look at certain areas of the city.

10:12:42 Maybe there are large arterial roadways like Fowler

10:12:46 Avenue, that it would seem more reasonable to have

10:12:48 these more intense uses.

10:12:52 I mean, that's something we could look at.

10:12:54 But, yes, if it's in the CG district they come to you

10:12:58 for any type of drive-in window.

10:13:00 >> I know Publix is starting a system where you can fax

10:13:05 in your grocery list or call in, whatever, and it will

10:13:08 probably come to a point where you don't even have to

10:13:10 get out of your car.

10:13:11 They will bring it to your door and you pay and put in

10:13:13 the your car and that's it.




10:13:17 Drive-through window.

10:13:18 I mean, the way things are getting.

10:13:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, that's the way it was when I grew

10:13:23 up.

10:13:23 They would deliver groceries to your house and all that

10:13:26 kind of thing.

10:13:28 How many of you are old enough to remember that?

10:13:31 >> Hmmm, I don't know.

10:13:33 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: The milk man used to come on

10:13:36 Sunday mornings, and he had breakfast with us.

10:13:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, there was the issue,

10:13:41 the fact that I think the particular one on Fowler,

10:13:44 what I think attracted attention was the fact there

10:13:46 were no waivers involved, and that was one of the

10:13:50 issues that council had asked if it could be done

10:13:53 administratively if there was no need for waivers.

10:13:56 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.

10:13:57 As I, along with Cathy, have been going through our

10:14:01 code and reevaluating all of our processes, one of the

10:14:04 things that we are spending some time reevaluating is

10:14:06 the special use permit process, what our legal

10:14:10 parameters are and what our practices can be, because I




10:14:13 think as Cathy mentioned, a lot of these have become

10:14:17 sort of ad hoc additions into this process called our

10:14:21 special use process, but they don't necessarily fall

10:14:24 into the category of legally what needs to be in this

10:14:27 process.

10:14:27 So while this is an important question for this

10:14:30 particular drive-through issue, with what Cathy said,

10:14:34 and legally looking at it and reevaluating all of the

10:14:37 processes, this is something we feel from our

10:14:39 perspective that we need to reevaluate in this entire

10:14:43 process, and through that reevaluation it's a good

10:14:46 opportunity for to us reevaluate whether or not certain

10:14:48 types of what we now consider special use that come to

10:14:52 council, the S-2, need to be in front of council, or

10:14:56 whether or not really it should be more only coming to

10:14:58 council if there's a waiver that's necessary.

10:15:01 So we are looking at it both from the procedural and

10:15:05 policy perspective and also from the legal perspective

10:15:08 and it's part of our ongoing move to try to clean up a

10:15:10 lot of our processes.

10:15:12 Thank you.

10:15:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions by council?




10:15:19 So we don't need to take any action on this today.

10:15:21 Is that right?

10:15:23 >> According to the motion he just wanted the

10:15:26 information back.

10:15:26 If you are wanting to direct me specifically on this

10:15:28 particular use since we are looking at all of them, if

10:15:31 you are wanting to direct me to make this an

10:15:33 administrative review as opposed to a public hearing,

10:15:36 or look at the options and compare it to other

10:15:38 jurisdictions.

10:15:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I would suggest that you take a look at

10:15:42 it, and it will come back, right?

10:15:45 January cycle?

10:15:49 >>CATHERINE COYLE: A motion might be --

10:15:51 >> So moved.

10:15:52 >> Second.

10:15:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

10:15:54 All in favor?

10:15:55 Opposes?

10:15:56 Okay.

10:16:00 That's our morning items.

10:16:02 Council, I want to get clarification.




10:16:03 At least I want to clarify on the new business that I

10:16:06 brought up about the article in the paper, the site,

10:16:14 went around and viewed it and got some calls from

10:16:16 people this morning that's not clear.

10:16:18 But, anyway, the intent there again is to have the

10:16:21 administration, whether it be code enforcement or law

10:16:25 enforcement, police department, to come before us at

10:16:29 our next meeting, bring a report on how we can address

10:16:34 this issue, what is being done now, do we need to move

10:16:39 an ordinance, create an ordinance to address the issue,

10:16:43 in order that we can protect neighborhood, where these

10:16:48 similar properties are.

10:16:48 So that's the underlying issue here.

10:16:51 I just want to make sure that legal is involved, code

10:16:53 enforcement is involved, administration, and come back

10:16:57 to us, and that we need to create an ordinance for

10:17:00 that, we'll do that.

10:17:01 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Where is that?

10:17:06 >> The Hop's restaurant on Dale Mabry and gray, in the

10:17:09 paper.

10:17:10 In fact I went to talk to the people going on top of

10:17:12 the roof and taking air.




10:17:13 Conditioners off, and people sleeping in the place, you

10:17:17 know, all kind of garbage and junk over there in the

10:17:23 parking area.

10:17:24 There's all kinds of stuff going on there.

10:17:27 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I'm glad you brought that up.

10:17:30 I spoke to Chief Castor about something else in the

10:17:34 Heights, but that came up, and we talked about that and

10:17:40 how the people -- they are using it, and it's not the

10:17:44 only one.

10:17:45 So I'm glad you brought that up.

10:17:46 Thank you.

10:17:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So we can get a report from

10:17:50 administration and see where these sites are and see

10:17:53 what we can do to make sure that they are secure.

10:17:55 Okay.

10:17:57 Anything else need to come before council this morning?

10:18:00 Anything else?

10:18:00 You all did a good job today.

10:18:03 Got off to a rough start with Marty, but --

10:18:08 [ Laughter ]

10:18:09 >> Through all the roughness got it taken care of.

10:18:12 >> We stand in recess till 1:30.




10:18:14 Thank you.

10:18:15



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TAMPA CITY COUNCIL

Thursday, November 4, 2010

1:30 p.m. Session



13:29:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: City Council will now come to order.

13:32:33 We'll have roll call.

13:32:36 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.

13:32:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.

13:32:42 >>CURTIS STOKES: Here.

13:32:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.

13:32:44 Okay, we are back for our 1:30 items.

13:32:47 I have one memo from Councilwoman Mulhern.

13:32:50 I will be -- I will return late for the afternoon




13:32:54 session.

13:32:54 Okay.

13:32:56 Did you get a copy, clerk?

13:32:58 >> Yes.

13:33:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

13:33:00 We are back for our 1:30 items.

13:33:03 You're going to be speaking, stand at this time and be

13:33:08 sworn.

13:33:08 If you're going to be speaking, testifying, stand and

13:33:14 be sworn at this time.

13:33:16 [Oath administered by Clerk]

13:33:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 70, there is, we withdraw that

13:33:30 from the agenda, is that right?

13:33:31 Item 30.

13:33:33 >> That's correct.

13:33:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion?

13:33:34 >> So moved.

13:33:36 >> Second.

13:33:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second that we withdraw items

13:33:40 70 from agenda.

13:33:40 All in favor signify by saying aye.

13:33:42 Opposes in.




13:33:43 >> Item 79 as well.

13:33:45 Mr. Chairman, needs to be reset.

13:33:48 It can't be heard.

13:33:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That will be reset to the 16th?

13:33:54 That motion to reset that to the 16th of December.

13:33:57 >> So moved.

13:33:58 >> 10:30.

13:34:00 Moved by Councilman Stokes, seconded by Councilman

13:34:05 Caetano.

13:34:06 All in favor?

13:34:07 I believe that's the items we need to clean up today.

13:34:11 Miss Abbye?

13:34:13 >> Good afternoon, Abbye Feeley Land Development

13:34:17 Coordination.

13:34:18 Your first item is V-10-316, located 3035 and 3037 West

13:34:24 Kennedy Boulevard.

13:34:25 The request before you is for a 4(COP-R), which is

13:34:29 consumption on premises in association with a

13:34:32 restaurant and reporting.

13:34:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Before you, let's have a motion to open

13:34:37 all the items please.

13:34:40 >> For continuance.




13:34:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

13:34:43 Go ahead.

13:34:43 Thank you.

13:34:47 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Go ahead and familiar rise you with the

13:34:49 site.

13:34:50 This is Miguels on Kennedy Boulevard.

13:34:52 So it's at the northeast corner of Kennedy and MacDill.

13:34:56 The request before you is for an expansion of the

13:35:02 existing alcohol that's currently on one side of the

13:35:05 building.

13:35:05 They are going to be moving into what was formerly a

13:35:08 doctor's office from the west side.

13:35:09 And then they are requesting that the whole parking lot

13:35:12 shown to you there in the red stripes, is also being

13:35:17 wet.

13:35:18 Few more pictures.

13:35:21 This is looking north.

13:35:35 This is the entrance on Kennedy.

13:35:36 From the east.

13:35:41 Standing in the back of that parking area, we're

13:35:48 talking about looking south toward Kennedy.

13:35:49 Again, looking south, other side of that parking area.




13:35:58 And then behind the medical portion, what currently was

13:36:03 the medical portion of the building.

13:36:04 This was previously given special use permit for

13:36:17 alcoholic beverage sales under V 0871 there were three

13:36:22 waivers at that time.

13:36:22 There are four waivers before you today.

13:36:26 And that is two for distance separation from a thousand

13:36:29 feet to 465 for other establishments selling alcoholic

13:36:34 beverages and from a thousand feet to 443 feet for

13:36:37 residential uses.

13:36:38 There is also one for maneuvering within the

13:36:41 right-of-way for solid waste.

13:36:43 And the last is a parking waiver.

13:36:47 Parking waiver reads from 58 spaces to 37 spaces.

13:36:51 Including one ADA.

13:36:55 So that was 38.

13:36:56 Just before the hearing Melanie Callaway discovered

13:36:59 they actually need two ADA spaces so we need to drop

13:37:03 the waiver down one additional space to be 36.

13:37:05 In order to accommodate that second ADA space going in

13:37:08 to the parking area.

13:37:09 The request before you, the -- the prior alcoholic




13:37:16 beverage permit was issued for 4,009 square feet.

13:37:20 That included the restaurant and that patio area that's

13:37:22 in the front there.

13:37:23 The request before you today is for 18,845 square feet.

13:37:28 And that includes 4,673 of indoor area and 14,172 of

13:37:35 outdoor area, including that parking lot, which

13:37:38 contains 11,442 square feet.

13:37:41 If you can refer to page two of your staff report, that

13:37:47 parking area is being talked about is being used for

13:37:50 temporary, for special events.

13:37:52 And there was a note placed on the plans that said that

13:37:56 it wouldn't be more than three special events in a

13:37:59 year.

13:37:59 And then secondly, they wouldn't extend for more than a

13:38:01 period of 48 hours.

13:38:03 Staff had some concerned.

13:38:07 We talked to Mr. Michelini about our concerns relating

13:38:11 to alcoholic beverage sales in that parking lot.

13:38:14 It is a large area.

13:38:15 It is not typical to wet a parking area.

13:38:18 We had concerns about what would happen -- where do the

13:38:22 people park if a special event is going to occur there?




13:38:26 When you take that parking area and you put an

13:38:29 occupancy rate of three square feet per person per the

13:38:33 life safety code, that area could actually accommodate

13:38:38 3,813 people.

13:38:38 Which would require 935 parking spaces.

13:38:42 If you're using all the parking spaces you currently

13:38:45 have for the restaurant, which is already short, plus

13:38:48 allow for activities to occur in that area, there could

13:38:52 be adverse impact to the surrounding businesses as well

13:38:55 as the surrounding neighborhood related to the

13:38:58 potential of using that space.

13:38:59 Right now you can come in and get a temporary alcoholic

13:39:03 beverage permit for that area.

13:39:05 If you're associated with a non-profit organization.

13:39:07 If this were to become wet, this parking area, that

13:39:12 would be allowed to occur for profit purposes for the

13:39:15 restaurant.

13:39:16 And as I said, they are seeking to limit it to three

13:39:21 events per year.

13:39:22 There was no identification as to what those events

13:39:25 were.

13:39:25 Is it Cinco de Mayo?




13:39:29 St. Patrick's day?

13:39:30 It would be three events.

13:39:31 On page one -- page two of the staff report, you'll see

13:39:35 if it is Council's pleasure to approve that this day,

13:39:39 staff would recommend this note be added, that each

13:39:42 special event not to exceed two days maximum with

13:39:45 ourself of 10:00 a.m. to midnight.

13:39:47 Prior to the signoffs by land development for the

13:39:50 extension of premises, which is the term for holiday,

13:39:53 go to is the state and get that license extended into

13:39:56 that area.

13:39:57 The owner is to provide a parking agreement for the

13:39:59 event to be reviewed and approved by land development

13:40:03 in coordination with the transportation division.

13:40:05 In addition to that, we had some other minor

13:40:09 modifications related to the parking waiver.

13:40:14 It's 34% per restaurant.

13:40:17 That is extensive.

13:40:18 There is a objection, finding of inconsistency from

13:40:23 transportation related to that and Melanie Calloway is

13:40:26 here to speak to that.

13:40:27 In addition to that, there were some technical




13:40:29 modifications that would need to be connected should it

13:40:33 be Council's pleasure to move forward with this

13:40:35 application.

13:40:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me understand that they're wanting

13:40:38 to wet zone the parking area?

13:40:40 >> Yes, sir.

13:40:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Why wouldn't you just come in and get a

13:40:43 special event to do the three events a year?

13:40:45 Can't you do that?

13:40:46 >> For the special event it has to be associated with a

13:40:48 non-profit organization.

13:40:49 And then you cannot profit from that event occurring.

13:40:53 So, this would be the way in order for the business

13:40:57 that actually occupies the restaurant to receive

13:40:59 profits from those events.

13:41:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

13:41:03 Any other questions?

13:41:08 >> Who's going to keep track of how many events?

13:41:11 Who's going to keep track of the three events?

13:41:14 And the 48 hours?

13:41:17 >> It would be Land Development Coordination.

13:41:18 What would happen is, through their state license, they




13:41:22 would have to get an extension of premises approval by

13:41:26 the state, which requires a signoff by the local

13:41:29 government.

13:41:29 So we would have to sign off to say yes, they can go

13:41:33 ahead and extend their premises into that area from

13:41:36 inside the restaurant to outside.

13:41:37 And we would keep track in our system as to how many

13:41:41 times they came in.

13:41:43 But at the same time, we're requesting that when they

13:41:45 are going to do one of these events, they would be

13:41:47 providing us with a parking, some sort of parking plan

13:41:50 for how the parking is going to be accommodated, given

13:41:54 that they will be using their parking area for the

13:41:57 event to occur.

13:41:58 So they would need to make some sort of offsite

13:42:02 arrangements for that parking, which would be more than

13:42:04 their average 38 spaces, because now they're actually

13:42:08 having the inside the restaurant, plus whatever they're

13:42:10 accommodating outside in the parking area.

13:42:14 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Maybe -- I'd like to hear where the 900

13:42:18 parking spaces are.

13:42:20 For that event.




13:42:23 >> I'll let Mr. Michelini speak to that.

13:42:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

13:42:27 Officer Miller?

13:42:32 >> Don Miller, City of Tampa Police Department.

13:42:34 City of Tampa has no objections.

13:42:37 Miguels has been a good business up and running,

13:42:42 logistically, as long as land development and the, I

13:42:45 guess petitioner could work those logistics out, we

13:42:49 won't have any objections.

13:42:50 Thank you.

13:42:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?

13:42:53 >> Good afternoon, Steve Michelini.

13:42:56 This request is not as complicated as it may seem.

13:42:59 Let me explain to you why we're asking for this in this

13:43:03 manner.

13:43:04 As opposed to through a typical charity.

13:43:07 As in the normal process, the state has changed some of

13:43:13 its rules and requirements.

13:43:14 And what happens is, if you have a not-for-profit

13:43:17 event, you have to surrender your license and you have

13:43:20 to stop selling any products whatsoever from the

13:43:24 owner's side.




13:43:26 Everything, including the operation of the restaurant

13:43:28 and all the sales that go through that, whether it's

13:43:31 indoors or outdoors, goes through the not for profit.

13:43:34 And it creates an administrative nightmare.

13:43:37 The not-for-profits are not set up to administer a

13:43:41 restaurant in its operations during these events.

13:43:45 Typically what happened in the past was, the charities

13:43:47 were the recipients of donations and they got a take of

13:43:51 the door.

13:43:52 And it's becoming increasingly more difficult to

13:43:57 provide support to charities without wet zoning the

13:44:00 property.

13:44:00 What we had proposed to the city was that we wet zone

13:44:06 the parking lot, allow us to use it three times a year,

13:44:11 and for no more than 48 hours.

13:44:13 There is a process that we still have to go through,

13:44:16 and it's an S-1 process, the city has it in place.

13:44:20 We have already done this.

13:44:21 And they have approved what we had submitted to them

13:44:25 for the exactly the same area that you're showing on

13:44:28 there to be wet zoned.

13:44:29 The application of life safety to an area of this size




13:44:35 for, I don't know, 3,000, 4,000, whatever the number

13:44:38 was, is not practical.

13:44:41 Typically you're talking about an event that hosts

13:44:44 about 200 people.

13:44:45 And then we -- what we were going to do was to give the

13:44:50 city, in advance -- now, they don't have to sign our

13:44:53 application.

13:44:54 We can go to them and they could say, we don't agree.

13:44:57 Your parking plan doesn't meet our standards.

13:44:59 But there is a process.

13:45:00 And we're committing to going through that process.

13:45:02 But what it requires is, the name and location of

13:45:07 adjacent streets.

13:45:09 It has the area, show the area to be wet zoned, the

13:45:12 parking areas and the drive ways.

13:45:14 It shows locations of the sales tent, the stages, the

13:45:17 trucks.

13:45:18 The fencing surrounding the event, location of garbage

13:45:21 receptacles.

13:45:22 Location of bathroom facilities.

13:45:24 Show any features that are significant to the site.

13:45:26 Now, that's on the city form.




13:45:28 And that's what we would have to comply with in advance

13:45:31 of them signing our application.

13:45:33 And then we would have to take that application to the

13:45:36 state and purchase a temporary wet zoning -- an

13:45:43 extension of premises temporarily for that location.

13:45:45 We also have to have a parking and driveway plan that

13:45:50 shows how people are going to get in and out of the

13:45:52 site.

13:45:53 How the cars be are going to be handled.

13:45:55 We have to submit notarized letters from property

13:45:59 owners allowing us to use their lots for parking.

13:46:03 And each time that would be, that would be different.

13:46:06 But it would always be under the control of the city

13:46:08 and how that's administered.

13:46:10 We couldn't just assume that we could start selling

13:46:13 from the parking lot.

13:46:14 Let's go back toking the site for a second.

13:46:18 This is an existing doctor's office at the corner of

13:46:22 Kennedy and MacDill.

13:46:25 And this is really designed to retrofit and to create a

13:46:32 lot more viable interest and long-term use of a site

13:46:37 that has been underutilized.




13:46:39 That particular site has been a doctor's office and has

13:46:43 been a T-shirt company and it's been a couple other

13:46:46 things.

13:46:47 But what that converting into a restaurant, that is

13:46:49 already viable, and established itself as a viable

13:46:53 entity, creates a longer term in terms of hours of

13:46:57 operation, an entity which draws people into the area.

13:47:01 With respect to the parking, we're on a corridor that

13:47:05 has plenty of bus traffic.

13:47:08 It has lots of other traffic.

13:47:11 And so the waiver of these parking spaces relates to

13:47:16 your ability to either meet the code with the existing

13:47:19 parking lots, which we have maximized the best of our

13:47:23 effort.

13:47:23 Or you tearing down residential structures that are in

13:47:27 the rear or the other offices and start making them

13:47:29 parking lots, which don't attract the kind of attention

13:47:33 that you really want them to have.

13:47:34 Here's a picture of the front of the building.

13:47:39 The kind of traffic that you experience on Kennedy

13:47:46 Boulevard.

13:47:47 But it's at a key intersection.




13:47:52 The restaurants are encouraged in the Kennedy overlay

13:47:55 district.

13:47:56 You're utilizing existing building.

13:47:59 So, you're taking advantage of the construction and the

13:48:02 location that's already there.

13:48:03 And they're getting ready to spend an extremely large

13:48:07 amount of money to remodel and gentrify this location.

13:48:14 So, one of the concepts that they're working with is to

13:48:21 create an actual open patio inside the building.

13:48:26 So you would be able to dine essentially under the

13:48:30 stars, inside the building.

13:48:31 Not for the entire building, but for a section of it.

13:48:34 I think there are enough safeguards here, where there's

13:48:40 not going to be an event that's going to cause an

13:48:44 adverse impact to any surrounding property owner.

13:48:47 It will in fact help to encourage other restaurants to

13:48:52 think a little bit outside the box with respect to how

13:48:55 do we service people?

13:48:57 And how do we expand without impacting other places?

13:49:00 I think that we have accomplished that through the

13:49:04 remodeling and actually joining of the two buildings.

13:49:07 And like I said, there is a process that we have to go




13:49:10 through for any outdoor expansion.

13:49:14 That can't just happen automatically.

13:49:15 And we put that restrictions on the site plan.

13:49:18 So, we're respectfully requesting your approval.

13:49:24 I'll save any time I have for rebuttal.

13:49:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions by Council?

13:49:30 Miss Feeley, you talked to me, what is the process?

13:49:35 Really, he's saying there's a process already in place

13:49:37 for this kind -- I thought I heard earlier we have

13:49:40 never done this before in terms of wet zoning the

13:49:42 parking area.

13:49:43 I need some clarification, because he said that's a

13:49:46 process, this is nothing new, it's been done before.

13:49:50 Could you speak to us about that?

13:49:52 >>ABBYE FEELEY: The application Mr. Michelini put up

13:49:58 was the S-1 application for a temporary alcohol.

13:50:02 That is when you have a non-profit organization that is

13:50:04 the applicant.

13:50:05 Not when it is a private.

13:50:08 The only thing Mr. Michelini's client would need from

13:50:14 us would be that extension of premises.

13:50:16 It is not -- that S-1 application with the layout and




13:50:18 everything, that's not required any more.

13:50:20 Once this becomes wet under private ownership.

13:50:24 That is when you are doing it as part of a non-profit

13:50:26 application.

13:50:27 And we are checking all of those elements to ensure

13:50:30 that is occurring.

13:50:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So let me be clear.

13:50:33 So we don't have a process then in place for a

13:50:36 for-profit group organization, process in place for a

13:50:39 non-profit?

13:50:41 >> Right.

13:50:42 What happens now is if you are wet inside, and you're

13:50:45 looking to do an extension, you come in under an

13:50:47 extension of premises.

13:50:48 And we review certain information under that extension

13:50:52 of premises.

13:50:53 And we sign off for that, that yes, they have the

13:50:55 appropriate license inside and now they're going to do

13:50:58 this.

13:50:58 And they identify for how long of a period that is

13:51:00 going to be.

13:51:01 But we do not typically check that traffic circulation




13:51:07 or have 11,000 square feet outside that could

13:51:10 potentially be occupied by that event occurring.

13:51:13 I had discussed with Mr. Michelini the potential of

13:51:19 shrinking that area to be just what the adjacent, kind

13:51:22 of that front part of Kennedy, so that it was a little

13:51:25 bit smaller of an area, not as large.

13:51:29 When I did review this with Catherine Coyle, the zoning

13:51:33 administrator, that is how we did look at the life

13:51:35 occupancy for that area, typically how it is done.

13:51:40 That's how we take the floor plan inside and come up

13:51:42 with an occupancy.

13:51:43 So to have that same thing going on outside, that is

13:51:48 how we did that.

13:51:49 So we would need to put in some additional standards of

13:51:52 review, seeing that that application would not be the

13:51:54 applicable application.

13:51:55 Staff does not have any concerns in relation to the

13:52:00 expansion inside, in the building.

13:52:02 And then inhabiting that other portion and extending

13:52:05 the restaurant, etcetera.

13:52:06 It really is that outside area and the adverse impacts

13:52:10 that could be associated to the businesses surrounding




13:52:13 that and the residential to the north of that property.

13:52:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So then, so you have a concern about

13:52:17 that.

13:52:18 Outside expansion.

13:52:19 In terms of the traffic, or the parking, each time

13:52:24 would they have to provide parking -- I mean, is there

13:52:28 a layout?

13:52:29 Is there anything that applicant has they can show us

13:52:32 how they will address the issue of parking?

13:52:36 >> Well, what we were concerned about, the staff had

13:52:39 talked to us about preparing what they were asking for

13:52:41 with the standard parking plan for the entire life of

13:52:45 the alcoholic beverage zoning.

13:52:48 The problem with that is, that the ownerships of

13:52:52 adjacent properties that you're going to utilize may

13:52:55 change.

13:52:55 And so we thought it was more appropriate to bring them

13:52:59 a plan in advance that showed exactly what I just told

13:53:04 you about.

13:53:04 And we put a restriction on our site plan that says

13:53:07 that we have to do that.

13:53:09 I mean, I can read it to you verbatim.




13:53:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No, Mr. Michelini, I was talking about

13:53:15 a sample layout.

13:53:18 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Sure, I have it from the one we just

13:53:20 did this past may.

13:53:21 They just approved this to be done exactly for the same

13:53:25 area that I'm asking for now.

13:53:27 It was for a charity.

13:53:29 But I don't have -- I brought it.

13:53:31 I mean, this was just done this year on the Cinco de

13:53:35 Mayo celebration.

13:53:36 And we're not trying to avoid this process.

13:53:39 What Miss Feeley is telling you, it normally isn't

13:53:42 applied to an owner.

13:53:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's what I'm saying.

13:53:48 >> We are subjecting ourselves to that review.

13:53:50 We are not trying to avoid that review.

13:53:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What I heard staff say, Miss Feeley

13:53:57 said no we only have a process that relates to

13:54:00 non-profit.

13:54:00 We don't have one that relates to a for-profit

13:54:02 organization.

13:54:03 That's what I thought I heard clearly.




13:54:05 If you want to correct me on the record, that would be

13:54:07 fine.

13:54:07 Second thing is, they're saying they have concern about

13:54:11 wet zoning the whole parking area that, they don't have

13:54:14 a problem with extending from the inside, but going

13:54:17 outside and wet zoning the whole parking area, they

13:54:20 have a concern about that.

13:54:21 So my question was, do you have a layout that would

13:54:24 show us how you address the parking, if you're going to

13:54:28 wet zone outside your parking area, where they going to

13:54:31 park?

13:54:31 Where are the customers going to park?

13:54:33 I'm saying, do you have a layout, an example?

13:54:37 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Yes, sir, I do.

13:54:38 I have it here.

13:54:39 It was done for the Cinco de Mayo, the fifth of may

13:54:42 celebration this year.

13:54:43 And.

13:54:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Same site?

13:54:46 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Yes, sir.

13:54:46 Identical to what I'm just asking you for now.

13:54:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Could you put that site up there so we




13:54:50 can take a look at it?

13:55:02 >> This is Kennedy.

13:55:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Speak into the mic, okay?

13:55:10 >>STEVE MICHELINI: This is the existing Miguels

13:55:13 building.

13:55:13 And then this is the parking lot, exactly as I have

13:55:16 shown you here.

13:55:18 And it shows the tents.

13:55:20 It shows the valet dropoff.

13:55:21 It shows the fence area.

13:55:23 It shows exactly how this was going to happen.

13:55:26 So it's not --

13:55:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: But where's the parking going?

13:55:32 >>STEVE MICHELINI: The parking is through agreements

13:55:34 that I have here that are offsite.

13:55:41 >> Excuse me, but that's not the same as what you're

13:55:43 asking for here.

13:55:44 This one here -- this here goes up to the line of the

13:55:47 building.

13:55:48 This shows all the way to the street of New Jersey.

13:55:51 On here.

13:55:53 It's not the same.




13:55:55 It's showing parking agreement there.

13:56:00 And what you're asking here is there be no parking

13:56:04 where you're showing parking, because that would be wet

13:56:07 zone.

13:56:08 >> That's another person's property, where it says

13:56:10 parking area.

13:56:11 Parking agreement.

13:56:12 That's not -- right here is the --

13:56:19 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Where's New Jersey?

13:56:21 >>STEVE MICHELINI: That's another half block down.

13:56:23 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Okay, where's north A?

13:56:26 >>STEVE MICHELINI: It's up here.

13:56:27 Off the site.

13:56:28 There's an alleyway.

13:56:31 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Okay.

13:56:33 >>STEVE MICHELINI: There's an alley.

13:56:35 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Move it back up.

13:56:36 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I'm going to get a bigger plan for

13:56:38 you.

13:56:39 Can you see that a little bit better?

13:56:46 This is Kennedy Boulevard.

13:56:49 Here.




13:56:51 And this is the restaurant.

13:56:52 This is also where we were talking about expanding the

13:56:58 premises.

13:57:00 The dropoff and the pickup was via the alley here,

13:57:03 north A was up here.

13:57:05 This is a law office here.

13:57:10 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Bring back the other one.

13:57:12 B.

13:57:13 All right.

13:57:16 Now I see New Jersey here.

13:57:18 You're going up.

13:57:19 >>STEVE MICHELINI: That's quite a ways away.

13:57:22 >>YVONNE CAPIN: So your parking agreement was with the

13:57:24 property that is owned by someone else?

13:57:26 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Yes.

13:57:27 You have to provide offsite parking.

13:57:29 I have copies of the four letters that we had for

13:57:34 offsite parking for that special event.

13:57:36 Like I said, there's no difference between -- let me

13:57:46 finish.

13:57:47 There's no difference between whether we're doing this

13:57:52 as an owner or whether we're doing it for a not for




13:57:55 profit, if we have to meet the same criteria.

13:57:57 The difference is, who's processing the application?

13:58:01 And if it weren't for the state requirements that we

13:58:04 surrender the license and turned off all the operations

13:58:07 of the restaurant over to a not for profit, we wouldn't

13:58:10 do this.

13:58:10 It used to be a lot simpler.

13:58:12 The state had different rules, where you could, you

13:58:15 know, you had show them your books, you could show them

13:58:18 how much you made and the money went to them.

13:58:20 They changed the rules.

13:58:21 And so, we're not asking for this to be used all the

13:58:25 time.

13:58:26 We're asking it to be used three times a year.

13:58:28 It cannot be signed off on without the staff approving

13:58:32 it.

13:58:32 So whatever event we're planning can't happen if the

13:58:36 staff isn't satisfied.

13:58:37 And we're suggesting that we go through the same

13:58:40 process that you would go through as if you were a

13:58:43 not-for-profit.

13:58:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Mr. Michelini.




13:58:48 I guess -- Miss Feeley, you can come back.

13:58:54 >> If I may.

13:58:55 There is a difference.

13:58:56 Under the S-1, you are not required to satisfy parking.

13:59:00 Okay?

13:59:01 Under an A one for temporary alcohol, you are not

13:59:04 required.

13:59:04 It is not a criteria under 27272 of your code to meet

13:59:08 parking.

13:59:09 Under an S-2 for permanent alcohol, which is what is

13:59:13 before you today, there is a requirement to meet

13:59:16 parking.

13:59:16 And if that requirement is out there, then we need a

13:59:21 waiver for that area or whatever to say it's okay that

13:59:23 you're not going to have parking in this area when

13:59:25 you're having an event there.

13:59:27 But one of the criteria for satisfaction and approval

13:59:29 of a special use before you, is the satisfaction of

13:59:33 required parking.

13:59:34 And that's why this becomes an issue.

13:59:36 It's not that -- it's not required under an S-1 when a

13:59:40 non-profit comes in to hold a two-day event or whatever




13:59:43 it is.

13:59:44 But it is required in the application that's before you

13:59:46 today.

13:59:46 And that's the fundamental difference.

13:59:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

13:59:52 >> If I could have one more second here.

13:59:54 We have that commitment on our site plan.

13:59:56 And it's a temporary event.

13:59:58 It's not a permanent event.

14:00:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Only problem -- let me hear from legal

14:00:02 on this issue, because I hear what you're saying,

14:00:06 Mr. Michelini.

14:00:07 You're saying you agree to do this, do that but I don't

14:00:10 know whether it's enforceable legal.

14:00:12 Let me hear from legal.

14:00:15 >>REBECCA KERT: What Miss Feeley said is absolutely

14:00:17 correct.

14:00:17 For the temporary permit, which is what I believe

14:00:20 Mr. Michelini was showing you before, some designs he

14:00:22 had proposed for parking.

14:00:24 Staff doesn't review for parking.

14:00:25 So what he showed did not necessarily meet the code




14:00:30 criteria.

14:00:31 What Mr -- Miss Feeley also said is for the permanent

14:00:35 alcohol beverage special use permit, which is what

14:00:37 they're asking for, even if they're asking for

14:00:39 limitations on that permanent alcohol beverage special

14:00:43 use permit, they're still required to show compliance

14:00:45 with parking.

14:00:46 What I believe the staff report had proposed a

14:00:51 condition, stating that before land development would

14:00:55 sign off on approval for the state expansion, because

14:00:59 they'll already have it if you grant it from the city.

14:01:03 But before they sign off on the state, they want it to

14:01:05 be a condition that they are not allowed to expand into

14:01:08 that area until they demonstrate compliance with

14:01:10 parking.

14:01:11 And I think that that would be acceptable.

14:01:14 My big concern that's still out there is I hear what

14:01:19 Mr. Michelini is saying, meeting parking and

14:01:21 demonstrating compliance with parking is not

14:01:24 necessarily what Miss Feeley is considering compliance

14:01:27 with parking.

14:01:27 And there needs to be some clarification.




14:01:29 I believe that staff is saying if they're going to

14:01:32 expand into that area, they need to meet your parking

14:01:35 code.

14:01:35 In fact, that's what they have to do under an S-2.

14:01:39 I'm not sure that that's exactly everyone speaking on

14:01:41 the same page.

14:01:42 But just to wrap it up, for an S-2.

14:01:46 They do need to demonstrate come plains with parking or

14:01:49 get a waiver for it.

14:01:50 And they're only asking for a limited waiver.

14:01:53 They're not asking for a waiver for the entire space

14:01:56 for this temporary event.

14:01:57 So for their temporary event, they're going to having

14:02:00 to demonstrate compliance up to code standards for

14:02:02 parking.

14:02:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

14:02:04 All right.

14:02:05 Let's take public testimony at this point.

14:02:07 Unless Council has any additional questions.

14:02:09 Okay, anyone from the public wish to address Council on

14:02:12 this petition?

14:02:13 Anyone from the public wish to come forward and address




14:02:16 Council on this petition?

14:02:31 >> Move to close.

14:02:32 >> Second.

14:02:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.

14:02:35 All in favor signify by saying aye.

14:02:37 Opposes?

14:02:38 Okay.

14:02:39 I just have some concerns.

14:02:48 I just have some real concerns.

14:02:50 I'm just telling you.

14:02:51 That's just me.

14:02:55 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I also, wet zoning of parking, open

14:02:59 parking lot is just -- when there's 18,000 square feet

14:03:04 inside is difficult.

14:03:06 It's very difficult for me.

14:03:08 I'll tell you that.

14:03:10 >> It's not 18,000 inside.

14:03:12 That's the inside and the outside.

14:03:19 >>YVONNE CAPIN: How much -- whatever it is.

14:03:25 >> If there is some conditions, you'd like, we could

14:03:29 certainly put them there.

14:03:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Michelini, if you don't mind, let




14:03:33 me run the meeting.

14:03:34 Okay.

14:03:35 Thank you.

14:03:35 My concern is, what staff is saying is that there are

14:03:40 two different applications.

14:03:42 And that they have to demonstrate I guess before it

14:03:45 moves forward, but still, we're talking about, this is

14:03:48 not a temporary application.

14:03:50 It's a permanent application, even the though they are

14:03:52 agreeing to limit it to three, I guess events.

14:03:57 My question is, what's going to prevent them from doing

14:04:00 more than three events?

14:04:02 Or going beyond?

14:04:04 And it being enforceable?

14:04:07 >> Mr. Chairman, that is a question that Council needs

14:04:11 to address and always addresses with regard to anyone

14:04:14 of the conditions it ever places on any of its special

14:04:16 use applications.

14:04:17 The issue comes down to enforceability.

14:04:20 And the resources, whether the city will do it.

14:04:26 In this case, I believe if I understand it correctly,

14:04:30 there is no legal obligation in the code for the




14:04:36 process that Mr. Michelini is proposing.

14:04:39 It is only for not for profits.

14:04:41 And he is proposing to create a mechanism by which this

14:04:45 can be applied to a for-profit entity.

14:04:49 Which the staff has told you has not happened up until

14:04:52 this point.

14:04:52 So your question is a good one and it's a question that

14:04:56 City Council must wrestle with, with every wet zoning

14:04:59 application.

14:05:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a way to, if we're going to do

14:05:03 this, is there a way to limit this to maybe one year to

14:05:06 see how it works and then have to come back?

14:05:10 >> To make this a one-year.

14:05:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Conditional?

14:05:14 >> Well, actually the code really does not provide for

14:05:17 it.

14:05:19 >> I think perhaps we should separate the two issues.

14:05:24 >> Mr. Shelby, the public hearing is closed.

14:05:27 We need to open it back up.

14:05:28 >> I'm sorry.

14:05:29 Absolutely.

14:05:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.




14:05:31 All in favor signify by saying aye.

14:05:34 >> Obviously --

14:05:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: At this point, Mr. Michelini, let me

14:05:38 hear from staff.

14:05:38 This is issue related to what we need to deal with from

14:05:42 the city perspective at this point.

14:05:45 Yes.

14:05:46 >> Miss Feeley, again, this area when they use it, then

14:05:54 they have to comply with the parking spaces necessary

14:05:57 for this area, to be used.

14:06:01 A parking lot, on those special events.

14:06:05 And -- tell me again.

14:06:08 >>ABBYE FEELEY: That is what staff is desiring, yes.

14:06:10 But I think that we need to, and per direction of

14:06:13 Miss Kert, we need to determine number one, what ratio

14:06:17 we are going to be using, if that is what we're going

14:06:20 to be requiring.

14:06:21 And how we are going to make sure that it is in

14:06:24 compliance.

14:06:25 Because when they come in to us for that signoff, we

14:06:29 can say no it's not in compliance and they can say yes

14:06:32 it is, because there is no stand of review.




14:06:34 So I think through this discussion, we need to further

14:06:36 identify what that would be.

14:06:37 Is it a seven scare foot per person?

14:06:41 15 square feet per person?

14:06:43 Then, you know, how many spaces would that equate to?

14:06:47 The other thing is, somebody said well let's just limit

14:06:50 it to 200 guests per event.

14:06:52 Well, who's going to stand there with the ticker and

14:06:55 count how many people are coming in and then tell them

14:06:57 when they reach 200, that's it?

14:06:59 Then is it a fire marshal, fire safety issue because of

14:07:03 assembly?

14:07:03 So we need -- that would need to be worked out further.

14:07:07 I think for a level of comfort, for enforcement, from

14:07:13 staff side of that situation.

14:07:20 >> That was my very first question, was who is going

14:07:23 to, and how?

14:07:27 >> The only way -- their state license will require

14:07:30 they get an extension, what they call an extension of

14:07:33 premise, which requires local government signoff.

14:07:36 So every time they will come to us for that extension

14:07:38 of premise, we're going to say okay, that was one time.




14:07:41 Okay, we are not signing off on any more because you've

14:07:44 already reached three extension of premise for this

14:07:46 year.

14:07:47 So, as far as that is concerned -- then the other side

14:07:53 of that always says go back to enforcement.

14:07:56 If they're holding a special event and we haven't

14:07:59 signed off on it, then their in violation of their

14:08:01 state license.

14:08:02 So that becomes a whole other issue.

14:08:05 >>YVONNE CAPIN: They can do three consecutive uses?

14:08:08 Where it would be six days?

14:08:11 There's no time limit in between?

14:08:13 It can be done --

14:08:15 >> That's correct.

14:08:15 The way the note is currently written, three events, no

14:08:18 more than 48 hours apiece.

14:08:20 So could they do straight days straight, yes, they

14:08:23 could.

14:08:23 From 10:00 a.m. to midnight each day.

14:08:28 >> When you start out to say, the parking was not

14:08:30 required for a special event like a regular 2(COP-R).

14:08:37 You say they didn't have to have a number of parking




14:08:39 space.

14:08:40 Now you're saying they have to have the parking.

14:08:42 >> When a non-profit comes in under a temporary

14:08:45 application, when a non-profit comes in and applies for

14:08:49 a temporary alcohol, one of the criteria for the

14:08:52 issuance of that temporary, which is done

14:08:54 administratively through our offices is not parking.

14:09:01 >>GWEN MILLER: But that's what Miss Capin was saying.

14:09:04 >> Once we wet this under a permanent umbrella, it no

14:09:07 longer requires under that S-1 any more.

14:09:09 That goes away.

14:09:11 >>GWEN MILLER: So she should stop asking about how many

14:09:14 parking spaces.

14:09:15 Because she keeps saying how many parking space do you

14:09:17 have on the day of the event.

14:09:19 >>YVONNE CAPIN: She said nine hundred and something.

14:09:21 I heard nine hundred somewhere.

14:09:23 S that's why I keep asking.

14:09:26 >> Under the life occupancy code, which is what we use

14:09:28 for restaurants in determining occupancy.

14:09:30 And then we take that total occupancy and multiply by

14:09:33 point 25 to get the required parking.




14:09:35 So it's a quarter.

14:09:36 That area there could accommodate at a three square

14:09:42 foot per person ratio, 3,813 people.

14:09:46 Times the point 25, to get the parking, would put them

14:09:50 at 953 required spaces.

14:09:53 Yes.

14:09:54 If this was just an outside area, they came to you,

14:09:57 they wanted to be wet all the time, have outdoor bar

14:10:00 all the time, that's what they would be required.

14:10:03 >> And would this pertain to their special event times?

14:10:07 No?

14:10:07 Yes?

14:10:08 >> Yes.

14:10:09 >>YVONNE CAPIN: It would pertain.

14:10:10 When they came, they would be required to tell us where

14:10:14 they're parking nine hundred and something cars?

14:10:17 >> If I could answer that.

14:10:21 >>YVONNE CAPIN: No.

14:10:22 >> That is I think what is unclear as today about how

14:10:26 Mr. Michelini wants to apply that.

14:10:28 Staff interception of this outdoor area at a three

14:10:33 square foot per person would equal that if you're




14:10:36 saying he's going to comply and I think that's the last

14:10:38 unknown on this application is, what is the per person

14:10:42 ratio we're going to use?

14:10:44 And that being said, how many spaces would he be

14:10:47 required to show each time he came in for an event?

14:10:50 And I think if that is the direction Council wants to

14:10:53 go, we should figure that out and have that on the

14:10:55 plans so that when he does come in, we know whether or

14:10:58 not he is complying.

14:10:59 And also, from the enforcement side, whether or not

14:11:02 there's a potential for revocation based on that.

14:11:05 Mr. Scott in relation to your one year conditional

14:11:09 question, I just wanted to get back to that real quick.

14:11:12 That would be if it was a one year conditional, it

14:11:14 would be for the entire property.

14:11:15 We couldn't kind of break out the parking lot and break

14:11:18 out the restaurant separate.

14:11:19 Those things would need to travel together under one

14:11:21 umbrella.

14:11:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council Stokes, then Caetano.

14:11:28 >>CURTIS STOKES: Are we creating a new law with this?

14:11:35 >>REBECCA KERT: You are in fact creating something that




14:11:39 the city hasn't done before.

14:11:40 Otherwise we would have a process and be able to

14:11:43 explain to you exactly what that is.

14:11:44 You do add conditions and limitations to some of your

14:11:52 special use permits.

14:11:53 And you know, in essence, that's what they're doing.

14:11:56 It's just this one comes with the addition of, you're

14:12:01 moving -- you're required to have parking.

14:12:03 And then they want to expand where people can drink

14:12:06 into their parking.

14:12:07 Therefore, removing the parking.

14:12:10 That is where everyone is struggling with.

14:12:16 >>CURTIS STOKES: What Mr. Michelini is proposing is

14:12:18 that we wet zone the parking lot and waive parking

14:12:21 restrictions?

14:12:23 Three times a year?

14:12:25 >>REBECCA KERT: No.

14:12:25 No, he is not.

14:12:27 >>CURTIS STOKES: Much more complex.

14:12:30 >>REBECCA KERT: As is proposed, and I'll let him speak

14:12:32 for himself.

14:12:33 But what was proposed as conditions to be placed on the




14:12:35 site plan is that the three times a year, that the

14:12:41 property owner demonstrates compliance with your

14:12:45 parking code.

14:12:46 Which in theory is fine.

14:12:48 But what I hear is a very divergent opinion about what

14:12:53 is compliance -- compliant with the parking code.

14:12:57 And under an S-2, as you said, if had Michelini was

14:13:01 coming in asking for a waiver from the highest and best

14:13:04 intensity that this could do, a parking waiver, for 956

14:13:09 spaces, it would be within your purview to grant that

14:13:11 he's not asking for that.

14:13:12 But staff is telling you that is what they are

14:13:16 expecting him to demonstrate when he comes in three

14:13:18 times a year.

14:13:19 >>CURTIS STOKES: Thanks.

14:13:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano?

14:13:23 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Michelini, you said we

14:13:25 approved something like this in the past?

14:13:27 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Administratively.

14:13:29 It's been approved for the expansion of premises for

14:13:32 not for profits.

14:13:36 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: And using the parking lot?




14:13:38 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Using the parking lot.

14:13:39 But here is the difficulty that we're all kind of

14:13:42 struggling with.

14:13:43 And I have talked to staff about how to accommodate

14:13:48 this.

14:13:48 So, what we were trying to do was to comply with the

14:13:51 same restrictions that would apply to a charity

14:13:54 organization.

14:13:55 Not, we're not asking to be forgiven from that we want

14:14:00 to prove that we have the parking that is available,

14:14:03 the Port-o-lets and all those things.

14:14:06 Then we put a condition on the site plan that says

14:14:09 that.

14:14:10 It says if the city is not happy with our plan, then

14:14:13 you don't sign it and we don't get an expansion of the

14:14:16 premises.

14:14:16 And to go back to Mr. Shelby's comment about it being

14:14:22 wet zoned and you could serve out there and there's no

14:14:24 restriction, you have to have a signoff to go to the

14:14:27 state to expand your premises beyond your building

14:14:31 area.

14:14:32 You have to have that signoff.




14:14:35 And if the city doesn't give us that signoff, you don't

14:14:37 have the event.

14:14:38 And so, what I was trying to do was to create a process

14:14:43 that said okay, we're going to go through the same

14:14:46 process.

14:14:47 We're going to comply with everything the city normally

14:14:50 requires for an expansion of premises.

14:14:52 We're just going to do it as an owner instead of as a

14:14:54 charity.

14:14:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We need to move because we have been on

14:14:58 this for a while.

14:14:59 Let me ask legal one question.

14:15:01 Thank you, Mr. Michelini.

14:15:02 Let me ask legal, because what we're doing now in

14:15:05 essence is creating something that's outside of your

14:15:08 current ordinance, right?

14:15:10 >> That is correct.

14:15:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Number two is, can this applicant go to

14:15:14 the state and ask for this?

14:15:19 >> Can they go to the state and ask for an expansion of

14:15:22 property?

14:15:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Without having us to do this today?




14:15:26 That we don't have an ordinance?

14:15:27 >> The state will not approve it if the city doesn't

14:15:30 say that they have the underlying land use.

14:15:32 The appropriate special use permit.

14:15:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's all the questions I have.

14:15:37 What's the pleasure of Council?

14:15:40 >> Move to close the public hearing.

14:15:41 >> Second.

14:15:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.

14:15:42 All in favor signify by saying aye.

14:15:44 What's the pleasure of Council?

14:15:46 >> An ordinance repealing number 2008 approving a

14:15:50 special use permit S two for alcohol venue saying,

14:15:54 making lawful the sale of alcohol, beer, wine and

14:15:59 liquor, both (COP-R) for consumption on premises only

14:16:02 in connection with the restaurant business and

14:16:03 establishment at or from that certain lot, plot or

14:16:06 tract of land located at 3035, 3037 West Kennedy

14:16:10 Boulevard, Tampa, Florida, as more particularly

14:16:14 described in section 3 they're off, providing for

14:16:17 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an

14:16:18 effective date.




14:16:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Does that include all of Miss Feeley

14:16:23 added and all the conditions and all that other stuff

14:16:26 that she requested?

14:16:27 All that's part of the motion?

14:16:30 >> Yes.

14:16:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?

14:16:31 >> Second.

14:16:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I'm not going to support the

14:16:33 motion.

14:16:34 I'm not going to support the motion based on the fact

14:16:36 we don't have an ordinance in place to govern this.

14:16:39 This is something that's being created new.

14:16:42 Something like a hybrid I guess it is.

14:16:45 Something of that nature.

14:16:46 So I don't feel comfortable at this particular point

14:16:49 with that.

14:16:49 Unless we have something more, more, better process in

14:16:53 place that can address this.

14:16:54 So my standpoint, I can't support it.

14:16:59 >> I agree with chairman Scott.

14:17:01 We don't have an ordinance that governs how we do this.

14:17:04 And again, going outside of our current purview of how




14:17:07 we do these things.

14:17:08 Is against the nature of why we're here.

14:17:10 What I'd like to see is, if legal and Miss Kert and

14:17:15 Miss Feeley and Mr. Michelini can work this out prior

14:17:18 to when we come before, before we do this.

14:17:21 Thanks.

14:17:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: A motion and second --

14:17:24 >> Mr. Chairman, on that point that we don't have an

14:17:27 ordinance.

14:17:27 How could we accept something to come before us if we

14:17:29 don't have an ordinance?

14:17:31 Okay?

14:17:32 Legal should have notified us of this fact.

14:17:35 I mean, we spent 45 minutes on this thing.

14:17:39 And it is legal to some point.

14:17:41 And it's not legal in another point.

14:17:43 We should have an ordinance pertaining to this.

14:17:45 Can we lay this on the table maybe before the second

14:17:47 reading?

14:17:49 When would the second reading be on this?

14:17:51 >> It would be November the 18th.

14:17:55 >> I think we need a little more time.




14:17:57 November 18th.

14:17:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, that's a motion on the floor at

14:18:00 this particular point.

14:18:01 >> I'll make that amendment to the motion.

14:18:02 >> Motion to vacate the motion to continue to

14:18:06 November 1st?

14:18:08 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I make a motion to -- I think we

14:18:10 need more time -- the 18th.

14:18:13 Today is the 4th.

14:18:14 No, the 3rd.

14:18:16 >> Is the purpose of the motion to put.

14:18:19 >> Put something in place.

14:18:20 Maybe they can put something together.

14:18:22 >> Mr. Chairman, I don't want to cause problems with

14:18:25 the Council.

14:18:25 If it is causing that much trouble, we'll delete the

14:18:28 parking lot area or meet with staff and come back.

14:18:31 I'd rather move forward with an approval of something

14:18:34 than deny, you know, this project, because they are

14:18:38 already in the process of renovating the building.

14:18:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me hear from our attorney on this

14:18:43 issue because there's a motion on the floor.




14:18:45 I guess we can always withdraw the motion.

14:18:52 But the problem is he's saying going back and meet with

14:18:54 legal to work out something.

14:18:56 And I'm still concerned, I don't want the petitioner 0

14:18:59 to come back with hopes of this being passed without --

14:19:01 my issue is that there's no ordinance in place.

14:19:04 Legally or there's no law, no ordinance in place to

14:19:06 help us address this particular issue is what I'm

14:19:09 hearing from counsel and it's setting a precedent.

14:19:13 So that is my concern relative to this.

14:19:15 So I don't want -- and I'd love for you all to do this

14:19:19 and make money.

14:19:19 But I just want to protect the city, because I don't

14:19:22 know what's going to happen.

14:19:23 Somebody get sued.

14:19:25 They said well, we did it.

14:19:27 I'm just telling you, not just for me.

14:19:30 I can only vote for me and speak for me.

14:19:32 I can't speak for nobody else.

14:19:34 >> Let me ask if the petitioner is, if this, if the

14:19:39 motioning is made to continue this, can this be

14:19:41 resolved?




14:19:43 To address your concerns to redact what needs to be

14:19:45 redacted the next two weeks?

14:19:47 For the next regular meeting?

14:19:49 >> From our side, I think it can.

14:19:51 It's a policy issue on the administrative side, for the

14:19:53 staff.

14:19:54 But we certainly don't want to kill a viable project

14:19:59 because the parking lot ordinance issue is not

14:20:02 resolved.

14:20:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I don't think we're killing it.

14:20:06 I don't want to use those words.

14:20:07 First of all, you got to understand, it's not existing

14:20:10 other than on the not for profit ordinance.

14:20:13 >> I understand.

14:20:13 I'm just saying the expansion, it would cause a severe

14:20:17 hardship for that owner, for the expansion of his

14:20:20 restaurant.

14:20:22 The parking lot area was an additional request that he

14:20:25 doesn't have to have to operate.

14:20:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

14:20:30 >> But the buildings he has to have.

14:20:35 >> Mr. Michelini, I just heard you a little bit




14:20:38 earlier, that he -- he, you, as his representative,

14:20:44 would be willing to withdraw the parking lot so that

14:20:46 this process can continue for his restaurant, for the

14:20:51 building.

14:20:53 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Yes.

14:20:54 I mean, I certainly didn't want to put the Council in a

14:20:57 compromising position.

14:20:58 And obviously, it's causing a lot more discussion than

14:21:01 I had hoped.

14:21:04 But we can certainly remove the parking lot.

14:21:06 We can stay with the existing for profit or not for

14:21:09 profit process.

14:21:11 And take the parking lot wet zone area out.

14:21:14 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Because our attention is definitely not

14:21:16 to harm this businessman whose been in business for a

14:21:20 long time.

14:21:21 And bring the process forward.

14:21:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's bring this to landing, okay?

14:21:31 I need to hear from legal.

14:21:32 What is the direction now we need -- so we can move on?

14:21:37 >> The first reading I believe would need to be

14:21:39 continued.




14:21:40 So the legal description would need to be changed.

14:21:47 >> If not for profits have special events and need

14:21:50 alcohol, how do they go parking?

14:21:53 >>REBECCA KERT: They're not require -- not for profits

14:21:56 are not required.

14:21:57 >> This is not for profit organization that's going to

14:21:59 do it three times a year.

14:22:00 It's not for profit.

14:22:01 That's we said?

14:22:03 >>REBECCA KERT: No, it is -- they may or may not give

14:22:07 money to not for profits.

14:22:08 We have no control over that.

14:22:09 But it is not a not for profit that's applying for this

14:22:14 application.

14:22:15 >> I guess the question for the petitioner is how soon

14:22:18 can you get the legal description in to the land

14:22:20 development and have it brought back?

14:22:22 >> I think two week continuance would be fine.

14:22:27 >> The 18th.

14:22:32 >>ABBYE FEELEY: I just want to clarify for the record,

14:22:34 we need those materials into land development one week

14:22:37 prior, which would be November 11, which is a holiday




14:22:40 for the City of Tampa.

14:22:41 So November 10th in order to allow our right-of-way

14:22:43 division to check the legal description, certify it and

14:22:46 make sure.

14:22:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You understand that Mr. Michelini?

14:22:49 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Yes, sir.

14:22:50 >> I withdraw my motion.

14:22:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Need a motion to continue to the 18th.

14:22:57 >> Moved and second.

14:22:59 To be continued to the 18th of November.

14:23:00 All in favor -- yes, sir?

14:23:03 >> Just for the time, if we do that at 10:30 a.m.

14:23:05 please in the morning?

14:23:08 10:30 a.m.?

14:23:09 >> Yes, sir.

14:23:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's fine.

14:23:12 >> Thank you.

14:23:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.

14:23:14 All in favor signify by saying aye.

14:23:16 Opposes?

14:23:17 >> As the Chairman said, we have landed.

14:23:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I thought we would have been through by




14:23:26 now.

14:23:26 Item 72.

14:23:28 Item 72.

14:23:31 >> Move to open the public hearing.

14:23:34 >> Moved and second.

14:23:35 All in favor signify by saying aye.

14:23:38 Opposes?

14:23:42 >> I have been sworn in.

14:23:44 Petition case V 10333, address 3863 south Dale Mabry

14:23:53 Highway, applying for 2(APS), consumption off premises

14:23:59 only.

14:23:59 Show you some photos.

14:24:02 General location on south Dale Mabry Highway.

14:24:05 Right here.

14:24:07 Here's the location of the building.

14:24:10 The building has been changed.

14:24:13 This building from across the street location.

14:24:15 Being constructed, almost finished right now.

14:24:19 Looking northeast.

14:24:32 North.

14:24:35 And towards the west.

14:24:37 East across the street is Britain plaza.




14:24:43 We found the site consistent.

14:24:48 No changes required.

14:24:49 Waivers for separation from 1,175 feet for residential

14:24:53 uses.

14:24:53 Waivers for separation for establishments selling

14:24:58 alcohol, 1,000 feet to 60 feet.

14:25:01 Total square feet, 11,626 feet.

14:25:04 54 parking spaces required.

14:25:07 -- 74 parking spaces required.

14:25:10 180 spaces required, which six are ADA compliance.

14:25:13 Hours of operation, 24 hours, seven days a week.

14:25:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

14:25:17 Officer Miller?

14:25:21 Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa Police Department has

14:25:24 no objection, special use two permit.

14:25:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, petitioner?

14:25:29 >> Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, members of Council.

14:25:32 My name is Mark Bentley, 201 North Franklin Street,

14:25:35 Tampa.

14:25:36 I represent the applicant Sembler STS partnership.

14:25:41 There are no objection.

14:25:43 Also from the home owners association.




14:25:45 So we would respectfully request.

14:25:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here in opposition to this

14:25:50 petition?

14:25:50 Anyone here in opposition?

14:25:52 >> I move to close.

14:25:54 >> All in favor signify by saying aye.

14:25:56 Opposes?

14:25:57 Okay.

14:25:58 Councilwoman -- Councilman Caetano you want to read

14:26:02 that?

14:26:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'm still holding you for the earlier

14:26:11 statement you made this morning about that truck.

14:26:12 [ Laughter ]

14:26:13 Go ahead.

14:26:23 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Ordinance approving a special use

14:26:25 permit S-2 for alcohol beverage sales.

14:26:28 Small venue making lawful the sale of beverages

14:26:32 containing alcohol of more than one percent by weight

14:26:34 and not more than 14% by weight and wines regardless of

14:26:38 alcohol content, beer and wine, 2(APS) in sealed

14:26:43 containers for consumption off premises only at or from

14:26:45 that certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 3863




14:26:51 south Dale Mabry Highway, Tampa, Florida.

14:26:54 As more particularly described in section two here off,

14:26:58 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict

14:27:02 providing an effective date.

14:27:03 >> Moved and second.

14:27:04 Second by Councilman Stokes.

14:27:05 All in favor signify by saying aye.

14:27:08 Opposes?

14:27:09 >> Motion carried with Mulhern and Miranda being

14:27:12 absent.

14:27:13 Second reading of the ordinance will be held November

14:27:16 the 18th at 9:30 a.m.

14:27:18 >> Thank you very much.

14:27:19 Have a good day.

14:27:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

14:27:21 Item 73.

14:27:22 Item 73.

14:27:30 >> Petition case V 10-369, address 3924 west Spruce

14:27:36 Street.

14:27:36 Applying for 2(COP) beer and wine consumption on and

14:27:40 off premises for small venue.

14:27:42 You're going to find some corrections that need to be




14:27:45 made.

14:27:46 Number one, the zoning should be CI rather than the 24

14:27:50 showing.

14:27:51 Also there's some conditions that needed to be added.

14:27:53 Number one is the alcohol is incidental to the

14:27:57 microbrewery.

14:27:59 Operations of, Sunday from Thursday, closes at p.m. and

14:28:03 Friday and Saturday, close at 11:00 p.m.

14:28:05 And on page five, there's a list of parking waiver that

14:28:09 is not required for this particular address.

14:28:12 Show you some photographs.

14:28:16 This is the location of the microbrewery, right here.

14:28:27 Spruce Street.

14:28:28 Grady.

14:28:29 Dale Mabry is just to the east.

14:28:31 Right here.

14:28:32 This is the Home Depot.

14:28:33 There's a front location of the building.

14:28:39 There's the side location.

14:28:43 Across the street to the east, across the street to the

14:28:52 north.

14:28:52 Shows some residential.




14:28:54 We found the site to be consistent.

14:28:59 Waivers for separation for 1,000 feet to 97 feet for

14:29:02 residential uses.

14:29:04 Waivers for separation from 1,820 feet for

14:29:07 establishment selling alcohol.

14:29:10 For separation 1,000 feet to 139 feet for institutional

14:29:14 uses.

14:29:14 Total square foot is 7,781 square feet.

14:29:18 66 parking spaces are required.

14:29:21 66 spaces are provided, of which three are ADA

14:29:25 compliant.

14:29:26 Hours of operation Sunday through Thursday, close

14:29:28 at p.m., Saturday and Sunday, close at 11:00 p.m.

14:29:32 This request is for a permanent beverage permit to

14:29:34 replace the current one year conditional, which this

14:29:36 Council previously approved with conditions on the

14:29:39 premises.

14:29:40 Sale hours from 6:00 p.m. to 6:00 -- to 10:00 p.m.

14:29:44 Only Monday through Friday in conjunction to an event

14:29:46 from alcohol beverage sales off premises.

14:29:49 Sales were limited to beer and wine brewed on-site.

14:29:52 Monday through Friday and limited to four nights per




14:29:55 month, one night a week and all premises consumption

14:29:59 hours between 9:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m.

14:30:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Could you state your name for the

14:30:06 record, sir?

14:30:10 >> Joel Sousa, land development.

14:30:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Joe is new to this.

14:30:19 Thank you very much.

14:30:20 >> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa Police Department.

14:30:22 City of Tampa Police Department has no objection to

14:30:24 this special use two permit.

14:30:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Applicant?

14:30:37 >> Joe Redner, 3924 west Spruce Street.

14:30:42 For city brewing.

14:30:47 [inaudible]

14:31:13 >> Mr. Redner, for our attorney?

14:31:47 >> I spoke to the -- good morning, Council -- good

14:31:51 afternoon, Council first.

14:31:53 Spoke to the, says RM-24 residential multifamily.

14:31:57 Actually it's CI commercial intensive.

14:32:00 And we came here two years ago and asked for and got a

14:32:08 very limited amount of time for a 2(COP) with a lot of

14:32:14 conditions on it.




14:32:15 And we operated that year with those conditions without

14:32:20 any incidents whatsoever.

14:32:22 Then we came back and we got our hours extended.

14:32:28 And we operated that year without any incidences

14:32:35 whatsoever.

14:32:36 No incidences.

14:32:37 And what we would like to do now is get a full 2(COP).

14:32:42 For that location.

14:32:44 Then the police intelligence -- police department

14:32:59 criminal intelligence report, on the second page, he

14:33:08 states that on-site inspection of illicit property was

14:33:12 made by this officer.

14:33:14 There is no reason to deny this request.

14:33:15 He wrote police calls for service the last year, he

14:33:18 found no calls related to complaints from the

14:33:20 neighborhood.

14:33:21 And there are no reports of any alcohol violations.

14:33:25 We haven't had an incident in two years.

14:33:28 If the neighborhood came to us with a problem, believe

14:33:30 me we would fix it immediately.

14:33:32 That's something we do not want is problems with the

14:33:34 neighborhood.




14:33:35 That hasn't happened in the two years.

14:33:39 In the book that we provided you for you, you'll find

14:33:48 it's separated by tabs, and we have tab A.

14:33:52 And tab A, the first one is to show MSNBC has found

14:33:59 that, they bring out the top ten startup companies in

14:34:03 the country for the year.

14:34:06 And we are number one in that category.

14:34:09 And that's under tab A.

14:34:11 On tab B, in Southern Living magazine.

14:34:27 Cigar city brewery, Tampa, Florida.

14:34:29 If you read it, they just give a glowing report of this

14:34:32 brewery.

14:34:32 I do want to tell you that we started out two years ago

14:34:36 with two employees.

14:34:37 Now, we're creating jobs.

14:34:39 Jobs is what this country is worried about.

14:34:42 We now have 22 employees there.

14:34:44 So, we are creating jobs.

14:34:46 If you'll skip over to "E" in the tabs, you'll find

14:34:55 that they have found that on some people have found

14:34:58 that this beer is the best in the world.

14:35:01 And we find that to be quite a glowing report on that.




14:35:08 F shows that it brings visitors to this area.

14:35:13 Visitors and money.

14:35:14 People come here to come to that brewery.

14:35:17 They stay in hotels.

14:35:18 They eat in restaurants.

14:35:20 And they do tours and also H, also is a testimony to

14:35:27 that.

14:35:30 Also J.

14:35:34 J is a tour that goes around the world every year.

14:35:41 And that brings, they come here for cigar city brewery

14:35:44 and that brings 50 people here that stay here for this

14:35:48 tour, that come to this brewery.

14:35:51 Also like to tell you that we are at the limit of our,

14:35:57 of our license, the ed -- federal license.

14:36:00 We have already grown that much in two years.

14:36:02 That's because of the demand of course.

14:36:04 K just tells you how innovative the, our beer is.

14:36:13 How good it is.

14:36:14 How people like it.

14:36:15 And how we create a beer, we're creating beer.

14:36:19 I'm not.

14:36:19 My son is.




14:36:20 On L, it shows you this is the list of the best brewers

14:36:29 in the world, in the world.

14:36:30 We're number three on this list of the best brewers in

14:36:35 the world.

14:36:35 The next page under L will show you that we had

14:36:41 three -- four beers in the top 29 beers in the world.

14:36:46 And then on the next page, it will show you that we

14:36:49 have the top beer in the United States, draft beer,

14:36:55 right as rated by beer.com.

14:37:08 >> We supply Bonefish Grill, Circle K, World of Beer,

14:37:13 Whole Foods, Toller wine and more, ABC liquors and

14:37:18 we're proud to say we just got Publix.

14:37:20 For almost the whole state of Florida.

14:37:22 And we'll be supplying them their, our beer for them.

14:37:27 And we have a lot of independent vendors that I didn't

14:37:30 mention.

14:37:30 We also sell beer from here in New York, Pennsylvania,

14:37:34 Alabama, Georgia, North Carolina and South Carolina.

14:37:37 Already in these two years.

14:37:40 Want to tell you that if you go to tab T, you'll see

14:37:46 that Joey and the brewery are very active in the

14:37:50 community.




14:37:51 We work with Make-A-Wish Foundation, whole planet

14:37:55 foundation, big brothers, big sisters.

14:37:58 We donate to school auctions.

14:38:02 We act green partnership, neighborhood, national night

14:38:06 out.

14:38:08 United Way and Easter seals.

14:38:09 I know I'm forgetting something.

14:38:15 And we're asking for a 2(COP).

14:38:24 Thank you very much.

14:38:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Questions?

14:38:34 This is a public hearing.

14:38:39 Anyone wishes to address Council?

14:38:41 Anyone wish to address Council on this petition?

14:38:44 Any questions?

14:38:48 >>GWEN MILLER: We received a letter from the Lincoln

14:38:51 Gardens Carver City attorney.

14:38:55 Lincoln Gardens and Carver City has been coming down

14:38:58 here every time this has come before us.

14:39:03 I guess this time they are tired of coming because you

14:39:06 have disrespected their neighborhood.

14:39:09 Every time they come in droves, everybody voted against

14:39:11 them.




14:39:11 They didn't think it was fair, so they had the attorney

14:39:14 send a letter.

14:39:15 They're stating since the conditional one year license

14:39:17 has been in place, we have found that the increase in

14:39:20 traffic and crime, based upon the neighborhood

14:39:24 observations, the activities at the establishment.

14:39:27 So they're saying they are opposing this again.

14:39:29 They do not want this 2(COP) in their neighborhood.

14:39:33 So I'm asking Council please respect this neighborhood.

14:39:38 They have been disrespected two or three times they

14:39:40 have been down here.

14:39:41 So I'm asking for your support this time.

14:39:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, sir?

14:39:48 >> Mr. Chairman, request all due respects to the

14:39:50 neighbors there, I personally went there about a year

14:39:53 ago.

14:39:54 I don't know if you know, I was there, Mr. Redner, did

14:39:56 you manager tell you that I was there?

14:39:58 >> Yes.

14:40:00 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I was very impressed.

14:40:02 And I am impressed right now when I hear they got some

14:40:05 20 something employees.




14:40:06 Because that's a focus that we heard during the

14:40:10 election.

14:40:10 Everybody wants jobs.

14:40:11 And I sitting up here don't want us to put anybody out

14:40:16 of business.

14:40:17 Jobs is important.

14:40:18 We need jobs.

14:40:21 I was very, very impressed what I saw there.

14:40:23 I asked for Mr. Redner, but he wasn't there.

14:40:26 And I spoke to the manager, happened to be a female.

14:40:29 I can't remember her name.

14:40:30 And I was on my way to total wine around the corner.

14:40:34 So I says, here's Mr. Redner's place.

14:40:37 So I stopped in.

14:40:39 I was very impressed.

14:40:41 As the police report says, there's been no complaints.

14:40:44 I know the neighbors are saying there's more crime.

14:40:49 Well, the crime may not be coming from Mr. Redner's

14:40:52 place.

14:40:53 We don't know where it's coming from.

14:40:54 But, I'll have to rely on the police department report

14:40:58 also.




14:40:59 >> I just would believe if there was crime, if there

14:41:03 was more crime in that neighborhood, they would bring

14:41:06 some kind of a paper or some reports that said there

14:41:09 was more crime in that neighborhood than there was

14:41:11 before.

14:41:11 And I would submit that the reason they don't bring

14:41:15 that is because there isn't.

14:41:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?

14:41:20 >> I doubt very seriously if there's more crime in that

14:41:23 neighborhood than there was.

14:41:24 And I know it's not from us.

14:41:27 That I know.

14:41:29 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Most of your people come there,

14:41:31 they drive and leave?

14:41:32 You don't have walkers coming there, do you?

14:41:34 >> I don't think we have ever had a walker.

14:41:36 Not that I can say there wasn't.

14:41:38 But I have never seen one.

14:41:39 No, we don't get -- we're not a neighborhood bar.

14:41:43 We do not get neighborhood people coming there.

14:41:46 We're too expensive to be a neighborhood bar in the

14:41:48 first place.




14:41:49 These people, it's a target.

14:41:51 They come there in their cars, to taste the beer.

14:41:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions by Council?

14:42:02 >>YVONNE CAPIN: What special use do you have now?

14:42:04 What is your -- you're asking for a 2(COP).

14:42:08 >> We have a 2(COP) with conditions on it.

14:42:10 And we would like to take the conditions off.

14:42:12 We have operated for a year under those conditions.

14:42:17 >> Thank you.

14:42:20 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Council, this case first came before

14:42:22 you a couple years ago in 2008.

14:42:24 In 2008, the request before you was for the 2(COP).

14:42:30 And Council issued a one year conditional at that time.

14:42:33 The applicant came back a year later and asked that

14:42:36 that one year conditional be changed to permanent

14:42:39 status.

14:42:40 And at that time, at that hearing, there was

14:42:43 neighborhood concern.

14:42:45 And Council again granted another one year conditional.

14:42:48 That one year conditional is now approaching

14:42:52 expiration.

14:42:53 So he's had two years of one year conditional.




14:42:57 Now he's back before you as that expiration approaches,

14:43:05 to ask for permanent status.

14:43:07 There are conditions on what he is asking for you

14:43:09 today.

14:43:09 One is that all sales are in association with a

14:43:12 microbrewery.

14:43:13 And the second is that it will close at 9:00 p.m.

14:43:17 Monday through Friday -- Monday through Thursday.

14:43:21 >> You have nine to 11.

14:43:23 >> No, it closes at 9:00.

14:43:25 It closes at 9:00 Sunday through Thursday.

14:43:28 And 11:00 p.m. on Friday and Saturday.

14:43:31 And those two conditions, that it is in association

14:43:39 with a microbrewery and those hours of 9:00 p.m. Sunday

14:43:42 through Thursday and 11:00 p.m. Friday and Saturday,

14:43:45 are on the plan that is before you today.

14:44:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions by Council?

14:44:30 You have anything else you want to ask?

14:44:34 Mr. Redner?

14:44:35 You have anything else you want to add?

14:44:41 >> Except that we're asking for a full 2(COP).

14:44:44 With full hours.




14:44:48 >> Mr. Chairman, the note it appears the site plan does

14:44:51 have the hours of operation on that.

14:44:53 And ultimately the site plan controls.

14:44:59 So the issue is, if this does go forward, they would be

14:45:07 bound by the hours of operation on the site plan.

14:45:09 Is that correct, Miss Kert?

14:45:12 Miss Feeley?

14:45:13 And this is the site plan that is submitted by the

14:45:20 applicant.

14:45:26 >> We're asking, we're asking for a full 2(COP).

14:45:31 That is a mistake on the application.

14:45:35 If it's necessary, we'll put conditions on ourself.

14:45:43 >> Well, the conditions are on the site plan.

14:45:46 They're right here on the bottom.

14:45:47 Saturday, to 11.

14:45:50 Friday and Saturday Sunday, Thursday, to 9:00.

14:45:54 >> Those are our -- those were the ones from last time.

14:45:58 The ones, we brought that site plan, I guess that's the

14:46:02 same site plan because our site plan hasn't changed.

14:46:04 And they didn't take it off of there.

14:46:06 But in the application, we asked for a full 2(COP).

14:46:10 >> What hours?




14:46:12 >> 2(COP) hours.

14:46:14 >> What are they?

14:46:19 >> I will put conditions till 12.

14:46:26 We'd like to be open till 12 on the weekends.

14:46:28 Instead of 11.

14:46:30 On Friday and Saturday nights.

14:46:35 >>GWEN MILLER: I'm not going to support.

14:46:37 >> I didn't think you would support it anyway.

14:46:40 >>GWEN MILLER: The neighborhood don't want you there.

14:46:42 And I agree with the neighborhood.

14:46:44 We always agree with the neighborhood.

14:46:48 >> That's why we're here.

14:46:49 I understand that.

14:46:53 >> I have not obviously reviewed the notes on the site

14:46:56 plan.

14:46:56 But are there other conditions on this as well that

14:46:59 would apply?

14:46:59 Why O.

14:47:03 >> The only other condition, Council, is that all sales

14:47:05 are in association with a microbrewery.

14:47:10 That condition is on there.

14:47:11 And the hours were on there.




14:47:12 If it is, it's had Redner's desire that the Friday,

14:47:17 Saturday change till midnight and that's what he's

14:47:20 requested, that modification could be made in between

14:47:23 first and second reading, but, we were under the

14:47:28 impression that he was going to operate under the

14:47:30 conditions that he currently was.

14:47:31 He was just asking to move from that one year

14:47:34 conditional into a permanent step.

14:47:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right then.

14:47:40 Motion to close.

14:47:42 Is there a motion to close?

14:47:44 You have a question?

14:47:47 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, my question was going to be what

14:47:49 hours you meant to ask for?

14:47:51 So you're just asking.

14:47:52 That's it.

14:47:53 If they propose that, that can be changed between first

14:47:57 and second reading?

14:47:59 If that passes?

14:48:00 The midnight on Friday and Saturday?

14:48:03 >> Yes.

14:48:04 It would be just like you'd do with any other




14:48:06 modifications to a site plan in between first and

14:48:09 second reading, if it is had Redner's desire and

14:48:12 Council's pleasure to pass that as part of the motion,

14:48:14 you could say then that it would be approved on first

14:48:17 reading with the modification to be made to those hours

14:48:19 from the 11:00 p.m. to the midnight for Friday and

14:48:22 Saturday.

14:48:23 Everything else would remain the same.

14:48:27 >> I would agree to those hours.

14:48:30 >> And the hours for the rest of the week would be as

14:48:33 continued on the site plan?

14:48:35 >> Yes.

14:48:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, any other questions?

14:48:40 Motion to close.

14:48:41 Is there a second?

14:48:42 >> Second.

14:48:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.

14:48:43 All in favor signify by saying aye.

14:48:45 Opposes?

14:48:47 Pleasure of Council?

14:48:50 >> I move for denial.

14:48:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?




14:48:59 No second.

14:49:02 >> Move for approval, Mr. Chairman.

14:49:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You have to read the ordinance, if

14:49:05 that's the case.

14:49:12 >> An ordinance approving special use permit S-2 for

14:49:16 alcohol beverage sales small venue making lawful the

14:49:19 sale of beverages containing alcohol more than one

14:49:22 percent by weight and not more than 14% by weight.

14:49:26 And wine regardless, beer and wine 2(COP) for

14:49:30 consumption on premises and in sealed containers for

14:49:33 consumption off premises at or from the certain lot,

14:49:37 plot, or tract of land located at 3924 west Spruce

14:49:41 Street, Tampa, Florida, as more particularly described

14:49:44 in section two here off, providing for repeal of all

14:49:47 ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.

14:49:49 The hours are going to be weekends will be 9:00 to 12.

14:49:58 And during the weekdays, from 9:00 to 9:00.

14:50:05 As on the site plans, except for the weekend.

14:50:08 The site plan says 11:00.

14:50:10 But it's going to be changed between the second reading

14:50:12 to 12:00.

14:50:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?




14:50:17 >> Second.

14:50:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

14:50:19 I'm not going to support the motion on the floor.

14:50:21 Primarily I didn't support it last time.

14:50:23 And basically, again, the petitioner asking for three

14:50:27 waivers outlined in the petition.

14:50:32 Asking to waive the minimum distance separation from a

14:50:34 thousand feet to 820.

14:50:35 Also requesting a minimum distance between a thousand

14:50:38 feet to 97 feet for residential use, which means that

14:50:41 we have ordinance that says a thousand feet.

14:50:43 But this will be moved now to 97.

14:50:45 Okay.

14:50:47 And then third, we discuss the requirement separation

14:50:50 of thousand a to 139 institutional use.

14:50:53 So there are three conditional, three waivers that's

14:50:55 been requested by the party.

14:50:57 Then in 97 feet puts it right almost in the backyard of

14:51:01 this neighborhood.

14:51:02 It is interesting that we have all these other

14:51:07 neighborhood come in here, request, and we support

14:51:10 them.




14:51:10 We voted down.

14:51:12 And we come now to this particular neighborhood and

14:51:14 then we always have an issue.

14:51:18 Rather than getting support for that.

14:51:19 And so I'm not going to support it.

14:51:21 And then, lastly, there's a letter in our files, mailed

14:51:26 to us from the neighborhood attorney, citing they have

14:51:30 had some problems and issues.

14:51:31 What you have to understand is, not all the time

14:51:33 everything is reported to the police.

14:51:35 I was out today in neighborhood, out in the grand oak

14:51:38 area looking at some complaints been made by residents

14:51:42 out there.

14:51:43 And some, you know, some occurrences.

14:51:46 An incident that has not been reported to the police as

14:51:49 well.

14:51:49 So many times, people don't always report things

14:51:52 necessary to the police department.

14:51:53 So I want to go on record saying I'm not going to

14:51:57 support the petitioner.

14:51:59 Okay?

14:51:59 There's a motion and a second.




14:52:00 All in favor signify by saying aye.

14:52:03 Opposes?

14:52:04 Nay.

14:52:06 >> We have voice roll call?

14:52:10 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Yes.

14:52:12 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes.

14:52:14 >>GWEN MILLER: No.

14:52:16 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.

14:52:18 >>CURTIS STOKES: No.

14:52:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No.

14:52:22 >> We have a split vote.

14:52:24 3-3.

14:52:25 Voting yes.

14:52:26 Caetano, Capin and Mulhern.

14:52:28 Voting no, Miller, Stokes and Scott.

14:52:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It is my understanding that we have a

14:52:34 rule this will come back at our next regular board

14:52:36 meeting which will be the 18th at what time,

14:52:39 Mr. Shelby?

14:52:41 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The time Council would set.

14:52:42 That would be best to be done at 10:30 a.m.

14:52:47 Pursuant to rule 5 H.




14:52:50 Excuse me.

14:52:51 Sorry.

14:52:51 Pursuant to rule 6-H, if a, under new rules, revised

14:52:58 rules of motion quasi-judicial matters fails to receive

14:53:01 at least four votes the motion fails.

14:53:03 If another motion and order is not made, the public

14:53:06 hearing shall be reopened and continued to a date and

14:53:09 time certain when the full City Council may be present.

14:53:11 So it would be appropriate at this time for you to make

14:53:14 a motion to reopen the public hearing and then continue

14:53:16 it to November 18th at 10:30 a.m.

14:53:20 >> Second.

14:53:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It is my understanding though we only

14:53:23 take a vote going on that particular morning or is it

14:53:26 another full hearing?

14:53:27 >> Not a full hearing.

14:53:28 To continue it for the purposes of resolving this

14:53:30 hearing.

14:53:32 >> I have a question.

14:53:33 How could we have a vote if someone's missing and they

14:53:36 didn't hear.

14:53:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: They have to read the transcript.




14:53:42 And the DVD.

14:53:45 >> Yes, I've done that.

14:53:46 >> Mr. Chairman, I would like to add to that, we'll

14:53:50 only have a meeting if we have a full Council?

14:53:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Pardon me.

14:53:54 >> We'll have meeting if we don't have a full Council.

14:53:57 >> I realize that.

14:53:58 But 3-3.

14:54:00 >> You'll need a full Council, obviously, it can be

14:54:04 continued to a date and time certain when the full

14:54:06 Council may be present.

14:54:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

14:54:10 Motion to reopen.

14:54:13 All in favor signify by saying aye.

14:54:16 Opposes?

14:54:17 Okay.

14:54:17 You need a motion to continue.

14:54:20 >> So moved, Mr. Chairman.

14:54:21 >> Second.

14:54:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Been moved and second, it's continued

14:54:23 to November the 18th at 10:30.

14:54:26 Is that right?




14:54:33 What if we vote not to continue and you got a 3-3 tie?

14:54:40 >> You have to make a unanimous notion waive the rules,

14:54:43 because that's what's required.

14:54:46 If I understand your question, you're saying is what if

14:54:48 you make the motion to not continue?

14:54:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The motion is on the floor to continue

14:54:53 what if the motion is a 3-3 split on that motion?

14:54:58 >> Well, basically what happens is, it says the public

14:55:01 hearing shall be reopened and continued to date and

14:55:04 time certain.

14:55:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So if that is the case we don't need a

14:55:08 motion if it's going to be continued.

14:55:10 >> Well, it's a ministerial function.

14:55:12 Because this is a quasi-judicial matter and the charter

14:55:15 requires a vote of four in order to resolve it.

14:55:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I understand that.

14:55:18 But the question though is, there's a motion to

14:55:21 continue I don't have to support that motion.

14:55:22 I don't have to support any motion.

14:55:25 >> That's true.

14:55:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So I'm saying, what if this Council by

14:55:29 a vote of 3-3 votes, which means that motion then is




14:55:33 not continued?

14:55:35 >> That's a very good question.

14:55:40 >> It's not in the book.

14:55:42 >> The question is, why do we have to continue this?

14:55:45 Because we don't normally do, move for a continuance.

14:55:49 It just comes back.

14:55:50 Automatically.

14:55:52 I don't remember doing this before.

14:55:54 >> You never have.

14:55:55 >> Then why are we doing it now?

14:55:58 >> Because we revised our rules.

14:56:00 Because we have this issue where you don't have a

14:56:02 situation where you come back at the next regular

14:56:04 meeting, is the public hearing open, is it closed? Can

14:56:07 people speak?

14:56:08 Can people not speak?

14:56:09 And they don't know whether or not there's even notice

14:56:12 because it's not continued to a date and time certain.

14:56:15 So, from a legal standpoint, it makes more sense to

14:56:18 continue this hearing to a date and time certain and

14:56:21 not have all the restrictions about having to review

14:56:23 and entire record, because we have Councilmembers come




14:56:26 in and out, or come in late during the middle of a

14:56:28 hearing and catch up.

14:56:29 You don't require that hearing be continued and then

14:56:32 retake all the testimony.

14:56:35 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, we didn't vote to change our

14:56:36 rules so when we had a 3-3 tie it would not pass.

14:56:39 So that's essentially what he's asking to do here.

14:56:42 If he's going to vote, if he's not going to vote to

14:56:46 continue it, then we'll still have...

14:56:54 I mean, that's not what we voted to do.

14:56:58 So, if in effect you're changing the rules to that

14:57:01 effect, I don't think Council supported that when we

14:57:04 changed our rules.

14:57:05 I don't think this is working.

14:57:15 >> Counselor, in the past, I've only been here three

14:57:18 and a half years, every time it's a tie, I think the

14:57:21 rule is that it come back to the next regular meeting.

14:57:24 Okay.

14:57:25 Why are we changing our rules?

14:57:27 >> The reason Council changed the rules -- there are

14:57:31 several.

14:57:32 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: When did they change the rules?




14:57:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: They.

14:57:35 You mean us?

14:57:37 [ Laughter ]

14:57:38 They is us.

14:57:40 >> October 7th, the rules changed on October 7th.

14:57:45 And the reason the rules changed was because from a

14:57:49 legal standpoint, to not -- to have -- first of all,

14:57:53 let me preface it by saying, the City of Tampa, City

14:57:58 Council is unique in one regard with regard to the

14:58:03 charter.

14:58:03 Most of the boards say that it requires a majority vote

14:58:08 of the members present.

14:58:09 And most boards you probably served on require a

14:58:13 majority vote of the members present.

14:58:15 Your city charter says in order for City Council to

14:58:17 take action, whether it's action to approve or action

14:58:20 to deny, requires a vote of 4 regardless of how many

14:58:24 members are present.

14:58:25 And that poses an issue.

14:58:28 And that's a charter obligation.

14:58:32 So what I'm saying is, we have come up with situations

14:58:36 where a vote with a tie vote.




14:58:39 A Councilmember was absent.

14:58:41 It had to come back at the next regular meeting.

14:58:44 And what that meant was, that the absent members had to

14:58:48 review the entire record, review the DVDs and was

14:58:52 able to prepare for just a vote.

14:58:54 What happened, it came up under unfinished business and

14:59:01 people didn't know specifically when it would come up.

14:59:03 And whether or not they would have an opportunity to

14:59:05 speak.

14:59:06 The question came up as to what happens if the

14:59:08 individual absent Councilmember, after reviewing the

14:59:11 evidence and before meeting to vote, had a question

14:59:14 that they needed to have answered, would be dispositive

14:59:16 of how they would vote, do you reopen the hearing?

14:59:21 And the answer would be yes.

14:59:25 In all fairness, yes, because how would otherwise a

14:59:29 Councilmember vote?

14:59:30 But nobody had noticed they would have the opportunity

14:59:32 to have to be there to answer a question, would there

14:59:35 be any rebuttal?

14:59:37 Then it created issues that was resolved by the

14:59:39 changing of this rule.




14:59:40 And that's why --

14:59:45 >> Oh, my.

14:59:47 >>JULIA COLE: If I might.

14:59:48 Can I ask you to table the matter for five minutes so I

14:59:51 can go back and look at the rules and more properly

14:59:54 advise City Council as to what their obligation is

14:59:56 under the rules?

14:59:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You don't have to do that I'll vote to

14:59:59 continue it.

15:00:00 I'll do that today.

15:00:01 But you all need to correct the problem because I may

15:00:03 not do that in the future.

15:00:05 I understand what the intent.

15:00:06 I'm going to honor the intent.

15:00:08 Today.

15:00:09 But I may not do that in the future.

15:00:12 So there's a motion for continuance.

15:00:15 Let's dispose of the motion and then I'll come to you.

15:00:18 Can we do that?

15:00:20 Do you mind?

15:00:21 Don't mind?

15:00:24 >> No, because I'm going to go back.




15:00:26 The intent -- so isn't -- if in fact it was 3-3 and

15:00:32 then it was again denied, what you have done is

15:00:35 denied -- you denied the -- if it came out again 3-3 to

15:00:44 not continue, you have basically said no to this

15:00:49 petitioner.

15:00:51 >>REBECCA KERT: If I can just jump in then we can just

15:00:55 continue this and maybe have this discussion later.

15:00:57 But you cannot by a 3-3 vote have this be denied.

15:01:03 Not only do you have to affirmatively act on a floor

15:01:06 vote.

15:01:06 The state statute requires to you take affirmative

15:01:09 action and if you are going to deny to, as part of your

15:01:13 motion, state the reasons for that.

15:01:15 Because that has to be done by a motion.

15:01:17 This is really a ministerial act.

15:01:21 Perhaps you rules could be better amended to reflect

15:01:25 that but you are required to under state law to take

15:01:28 final action since you will not be able to do that

15:01:30 today, it is my recommendation that you just take the

15:01:33 ministerial action to continue this to your next

15:01:35 hearing.

15:01:35 >> I would have said that.




15:01:36 [ Laughter ]

15:01:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

15:01:42 Councilwoman Mulhern?

15:01:45 >>MARY MULHERN: But my question is, this is what

15:01:48 doesn't make sense to me.

15:01:49 So, we'll maybe -- maybe we can put -- I'm going to put

15:01:55 it on the agenda at the end of the meeting to discuss

15:01:57 this further.

15:01:58 Because sounds like maybe we haven't resolved all our

15:02:01 issues.

15:02:02 If by state law, we can't -- is it because this is a

15:02:06 quasi-judicial, we can't deny it on a -- it has to be a

15:02:12 majority vote to deny?

15:02:15 >> Must take affirmative action in combination with

15:02:17 your charter, you can't take affirmative action without

15:02:19 four votes.

15:02:20 So you cannot just allow this to die.

15:02:24 >>MARY MULHERN: So because of what's written in our

15:02:26 charter.

15:02:27 But are there other municipalities that, like.

15:02:32 >> I would really recommend that we continue this.

15:02:34 >>MARY MULHERN: We'll continue the discussion later.




15:02:36 >> After the rest of the hearing.

15:02:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yeah.

15:02:38 I understand.

15:02:39 Motion to continue, all in favor signify by saying aye.

15:02:48 Opposes?

15:02:49 Okay.

15:02:50 All right.

15:02:51 Continued till November 18th at 10:30.

15:02:56 Okay, thank you.

15:03:02 That was a good discussion.

15:03:03 A legal question.

15:03:05 Okay.

15:03:08 We'll take up the next item.

15:03:10 >> We are going to be in New York for a beer festival.

15:03:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Why did you let us go through all that?

15:03:21 So what's the next date?

15:03:23 >> December 2nd, 10:30.

15:03:27 >> When does it expire?

15:03:30 >> December 16th.

15:03:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: December what?

15:03:41 >> December 2nd.

15:03:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Can the motion reflect December the




15:03:45 second?

15:03:45 Do we need to make that all over again?

15:03:48 >> We really need to re-do it.

15:03:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to.

15:03:53 >> To continue to December 2nd.

15:03:55 >> Second.

15:03:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Till 10:30 in the morning.

15:03:57 Moved and second, all in favor signify by saying aye.

15:04:01 Opposes?

15:04:02 Okay.

15:04:02 Okay.

15:04:03 Thank you very kindly.

15:04:47 >> V 10-371, 17002 Palm Pointe Drive.

15:04:54 2(COP-R).

15:04:56 Consumption on premises only, beer and wine with

15:04:58 restaurant reporting.

15:04:59 Show you some photographs.

15:05:00 Location up in New Tampa.

15:05:06 Here's Bruce B. Downs over to the south.

15:05:09 Here's the strip center in question right here.

15:05:15 Here's the location.

15:05:18 Here's what the restaurant looks like.




15:05:24 Other side picture.

15:05:30 We found the site plan to be inconsistent.

15:05:46 Waiver number three needs to be removed and needs to

15:05:49 have state 30 parking spaces with 120 occupant load

15:05:53 times point 25 spaces equals 30 pace -- spaces

15:05:58 required.

15:06:00 82 spaces provided, five handicap accessible.

15:06:03 Waivers for separation for residential uses is 1,008 to

15:06:07 448 feet.

15:06:08 Waivers for separation for establishments selling

15:06:11 alcohol is one thousand feet to 60 feet.

15:06:14 4,318 square feet.

15:06:16 Hours of operation, 11:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m.

15:06:20 Seven days a week.

15:06:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Officer Miller?

15:06:31 >> Don Miller, City of Tampa Police Department.

15:06:35 City of Tampa Police Department has no objection.

15:06:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?

15:06:46 >> Hi.

15:06:53 The address of the restaurant is 17002 Palm Pointe

15:06:57 Drive at the New Tampa area.

15:07:00 >> State your name.




15:07:00 >> My name is Li Xin Shi.

15:07:03 His name is Li Xin Shi because he don't speak English.

15:07:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Are you going to add anything to the

15:07:13 record?

15:07:14 >> No.

15:07:14 We got a miss report, there is no objection.

15:07:22 No public calls for the objection.

15:07:24 And also the neighborhood association has no objection.

15:07:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anything else?

15:07:34 Anyone here in opposition to this petition?

15:07:36 Anyone here in opposition?

15:07:38 Anyone want to speak?

15:07:41 All right.

15:07:41 Motion to close?

15:07:42 >> So moved.

15:07:43 >> Second.

15:07:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.

15:07:44 All in favor signify by saying aye.

15:07:47 Councilman Stokes?

15:07:52 This is up in Tampa Palms.

15:07:56 >>CURTIS STOKES: I'll read half and let Councilman

15:08:00 Caetano read the other half.




15:08:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No, we are not going to let him do

15:08:04 anything.

15:08:05 >> Ordinance approving special use S-2 small making

15:08:10 lawful the sale of beverages containing alcohol of more

15:08:12 than one percent by weight and not more than 14% by

15:08:15 weight.

15:08:15 And wines regardless of alcoholic content, 2(COP-R) for

15:08:20 consumption on the premises only in connection with the

15:08:24 restaurant business establishment on that certain lot,

15:08:27 plot or tract of land located at 170120 palm point

15:08:33 drive, Tampa, Florida as more particularly described in

15:08:35 section two here off, providing for re-- providing for

15:08:39 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an

15:08:40 effective date.

15:08:41 >> Moved and second.

15:08:42 All in favor signify by saying aye.

15:08:44 Opposes?

15:08:46 >> Motion carried about Miranda being absent.

15:08:48 Second reading of the ordinance will be held November

15:08:51 the 18th at 9:30 a.m.

15:08:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 9:30 on the 18th.

15:08:58 Item 75.




15:09:00 Item 75.

15:09:02 Walmart.

15:09:21 >> V 10-3:75 property of the address is 19910 Bruce B.

15:09:26 Downs Boulevard.

15:09:29 2(APS) for consumption off premises only for beer and

15:09:32 wine.

15:09:32 New Tampa area, Bruce B. Downs.

15:09:45 Here's the super Walmart.

15:09:46 Here's the entryway from the west.

15:09:55 Westward through the parking lot.

15:09:59 Looking east across the street.

15:10:02 North down Bruce B. Downs.

15:10:05 South down Bruce B. Downs.

15:10:09 We found the site plan to be consistent.

15:10:13 No changes is required.

15:10:14 Waivers for separation residential uses from 1,000 feet

15:10:17 to 860 feet.

15:10:18 Waivers for institutional uses from 1,000 to 160 feet.

15:10:22 Total square footage is 199,724 square feet.

15:10:27 Provided parking required is 799.

15:10:31 Spaces provided is 897, which 18 are ADA compliance.

15:10:36 Hours of operations are 24 hours.




15:10:38 Which are governed by chapter three.

15:10:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Officer Miller?

15:10:48 >> Officer Don Miller.

15:10:49 City of Tampa Police Department.

15:10:51 City of Tampa Police Department has no objection.

15:10:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?

15:10:55 >> Good afternoon, Councilmember, Kimberly Madison,

15:10:58 Adams and Reese, 101 East Kennedy Boulevard.

15:11:01 With me today, Scott Gilner and Greg DuKay, the project

15:11:05 engineer and surveyor.

15:11:06 We agree with findings by the city and here to answer

15:11:09 any questions.

15:11:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here in opposition to this

15:11:12 petition?

15:11:12 Anyone here in opposition?

15:11:18 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: What hours are they permitted to

15:11:20 sell?

15:11:21 Store is open 24 hours.

15:11:28 >> That's governed by section 3 sub20.

15:11:31 So it would be between the hours of 7:00 a.m. on each

15:11:34 day, Monday through Saturday, ending 3:00 a.m.

15:11:37 following day and between the hours commencing




15:11:38 11:00 a.m. on Sunday and ending at 3:00 a.m. the

15:11:40 following day.

15:11:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

15:11:44 >> Move to close.

15:11:45 >> Second.

15:11:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.

15:11:49 All in favor signify by saying aye.

15:11:51 Opposes?

15:11:52 Okay.

15:11:56 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you Mr. Chairman.

15:12:00 I move an ordinance approving a special use permit K

15:12:04 two for alcoholic beverage sales, small venue and

15:12:07 making lawful the sail of beverages containing alcohol

15:12:10 more than one percent, not more than 14% by weight and

15:12:13 wines regardless of alcoholic content.

15:12:15 Beer and wine 2(APS) in sealed containers for

15:12:18 consumption off premises only at certain lot, plot or

15:12:21 tract of land located 19910 Bruce B. Downs Boulevard,

15:12:25 Tampa, Florida as more particularly described in

15:12:29 section two here off, providing for repeal of all

15:12:31 ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.

15:12:34 >> Second.




15:12:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.

15:12:36 Second by Councilman Stokes.

15:12:38 All in favor signify by saying aye.

15:12:40 Opposes?

15:12:42 >> Motion carried with Miranda being absent.

15:12:45 Second reading of the ordinance will be held November

15:12:47 the 18th at 9:30 a.m.

15:12:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 76.

15:12:54 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Item number 87, Council this afternoon

15:12:57 is V-10-376, located 110 West Gasparilla plaza.

15:13:02 It is the Glazers children's museum.

15:13:04 The request before you is for a 4(COP-X).

15:13:08 And there are some distance separation waivers.

15:13:14 To other establishments selling alcoholic beverages,

15:13:17 448 feet to residential.

15:13:19 And zero feet to institutional uses.

15:13:22 I know this is a familiar site in the city.

15:13:27 Don't know how many have been over there yet.

15:13:30 This is looking northwest.

15:13:42 Another picture.

15:13:43 Out front.

15:13:48 The request before you is for 57,170 square feet.




15:13:57 For alcoholic beverage sales of which 4,042 square feet

15:14:02 are outdoors.

15:14:03 The entire site contains point 44 acres.

15:14:05 Required parking is satisfied through lease agreement

15:14:09 with the City of Tampa and Poe garage.

15:14:12 There is one minor modification, which is that the

15:14:16 outdoor square footage on the site plan, the last two

15:14:19 numbers were transposed.

15:14:20 It should be 42 feet and it's listed as -- I'm sorry,

15:14:25 should be 4,042 square feet and it's listed as 4,024.

15:14:29 So we would like that changed to between first and

15:14:31 second reading.

15:14:32 Other item is that the hours of operation shown on the

15:14:35 site plan shows 7:00 a.m. to 3:00 a.m.

15:14:39 Which is not consistent with chapter 3, which on Sunday

15:14:42 would be 11:00 a.m. to 3:00 a.m.

15:14:44 For alcoholic beverage sales.

15:14:46 We have discussed this with Miss Zelman.

15:14:48 It appears that the hours of operation for the museum

15:14:51 on Sunday begin at 1:00p.m.

15:14:53 If they would change it to be 11:00 a.m. and be

15:14:55 consistent with chapter three, then everyone would be




15:14:58 consistent and able to move forward.

15:15:00 Staff is available for any questions.

15:15:06 >> Don Miller, City of Tampa Police Department.

15:15:08 We have no objection.

15:15:10 >> Good afternoon, Andrea Zelman, Fowler White.

15:15:14 I have here with me today, Ella Najjar of the Glazer

15:15:20 children's museum.

15:15:20 We want to thank all of your staff.

15:15:22 They have been very helpful with us on this petition.

15:15:25 We do agree with the changes Abbye just mentioned and

15:15:28 will submit new site plans before second reading.

15:15:30 I just want to make clear because there's been

15:15:33 misunderstanding among the complex.

15:15:35 The museum will not be selling alcohol to visitors to

15:15:38 the museum.

15:15:39 People taking their children.

15:15:40 Although some parents may have wanted that, that will

15:15:42 not be the case.

15:15:43 The only reason we are going through this process is so

15:15:46 that they can rent the space for fundraisers, parties,

15:15:51 wedding receptions, where tears a cash bar.

15:15:54 Things like that.




15:15:55 We need to get this wet zoning in order to allow

15:15:58 alcohol to be sold for those types of events.

15:16:01 And that is part of the special act of the legislature

15:16:04 that was passed for the museum, so that is very clear.

15:16:07 I just want to make sure everyone understands that.

15:16:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Won't be selling to children either,

15:16:12 right?

15:16:13 >> Will not be selling to children.

15:16:15 [ Laughter ]

15:16:15 >> So thank you very much.

15:16:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.

15:16:17 Anyone from the public wish to address Council on this?

15:16:22 Motion to close?

15:16:23 >> Move to close.

15:16:24 >> Second.

15:16:24 >> All in favor signify by saying aye.

15:16:26 Who wants to read it?

15:16:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Approving a special use permit for

15:16:42 alcoholic beverage sales large venue and making lawful

15:16:44 to sell beverage regardless of alcoholic content, beer

15:16:48 wine and realty -- liquor for consumption on the

15:16:52 premises only, from certain lot, plot tract of land




15:16:55 located 110 West Gasparilla plaza, more particularly

15:16:58 described in section two here off, imposing certain

15:17:01 conditions based upon the location of the property,

15:17:05 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict,

15:17:06 providing an effective date.

15:17:08 >> Second.

15:17:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.

15:17:10 Second by Councilman Stokes.

15:17:11 All in favor signify by saying aye.

15:17:13 Opposes?

15:17:15 >> Motion carried with Miranda being absent.

15:17:17 Second reading of the ordinance will be held November

15:17:19 the 18th at 9:30 a.m.

15:17:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.

15:17:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 77.

15:17:41 >> Application V-10-403.

15:17:53 Address 1600 east eighth avenue, applying for four COP.

15:17:58 Allows for sale of beverages regardless of alcoholic

15:18:01 content for consumption on and sealed containers,

15:18:04 consumption off the premises for the small venue.

15:18:07 Want to make sure Mr. Scott, you received their --

15:18:13 >> Yes, we did.




15:18:21 >> Photographs.

15:18:21 Location Ybor City.

15:18:26 Location is right behind the Centro Ybor complex.

15:18:32 There's palm and here's seventh.

15:18:36 Subject to location, to the west.

15:18:46 To the north.

15:18:48 And to the west.

15:18:51 Look at the location of the unit from the south.

15:18:57 Looking at the west on eighth.

15:19:01 And to the south.

15:19:03 We found the site plan consistent.

15:19:08 No change is required at this time.

15:19:10 Waivers for separation for establishment selling

15:19:14 alcoholic beverages, 1,000 feet to 35 feet.

15:19:17 Have separation for residential uses from 1,000 feet to

15:19:21 347 feet.

15:19:22 Waivers for institutional uses 1,000 feet to 118 feet.

15:19:26 Total square foot is 100,003,450 square feet of which

15:19:31 4,238 square feet is outside.

15:19:35 Offstreet parking is not required within the YC 1

15:19:38 zoning district.

15:19:40 Hours of operation are Monday through Thursday.




15:19:43 11:00 a.m. to one a.m.

15:19:45 Friday and Saturday, 11:00 a.m. to 2:00 a.m.

15:19:48 And Sundays, 12:00 p.m. to 11:00 p.m.

15:19:51 It was a 4(COP-R) prior to coming to you today.

15:19:55 Under file WZ 06-87, ordinance 2006, 185.

15:20:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Officer Miller?

15:20:08 >> Officer Miller, City of Tampa Police Department.

15:20:11 City of Tampa Police Department has no objections.

15:20:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?

15:20:13 Chairman Scott, honorable City Council,

15:20:19 representatives, my name is Colonel John Doble.

15:20:25 The address is 1600 eighth avenue, Tampa, Florida.

15:20:29 33605.

15:20:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here in open position to this

15:20:33 petition?

15:20:34 Anyone in opposition?

15:20:35 Okay, motion to close?

15:20:36 >> So moved.

15:20:37 >> Second.

15:20:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.

15:20:41 Councilwoman Capin?

15:20:42 You want to add anything else, sir, before we vote?




15:20:46 >> We want a lot of stuff.

15:20:47 [ Laughter ]

15:20:51 >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

15:20:54 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.

15:20:55 An ordinance repealing ordinance No. 200-3194,

15:21:01 approving a special use permit S-2 for alcoholic

15:21:05 beverage sales, small venue and making lawful the sale

15:21:08 of beverages containing alcohol, regardless of alcohol

15:21:11 content, beer, wine and liquor, 4(COP) for the

15:21:15 consumption on the premise and in sealed containers for

15:21:19 consumption off the premise on that certain lot, plot

15:21:22 or tract of land located at 1600 east eighth avenue,

15:21:27 Tampa, Florida, as more particularly described in

15:21:30 section 3 here off, imposing certain conditions based

15:21:33 upon the location of the property providing for repeal

15:21:37 of all ordinances in conflict, providing an effective

15:21:39 date.

15:21:41 >> Second.

15:21:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.

15:21:43 Second by Councilman Caetano.

15:21:45 All in favor signify by saying eye?

15:21:48 >> Motion carried with Miranda being capture -- absent.




15:21:53 Second reading, November 18th at 9:30 a.m.

15:21:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The last item is item 78.

15:21:59 Appeal hearing from the HART regional transit

15:22:06 authority.

15:22:12 >> After reviewing the application, I've determined

15:22:15 this does need to be heard by the Barrio Latino

15:22:17 Commission prior to coming to City Council.

15:22:20 I have advised HART and the other persons who came down

15:22:24 for notice on this particular matter and they are aware

15:22:26 that this does need to be continued.

15:22:29 In order to have it set for City Council, I'm asking

15:22:32 for it, after the BLC, I'm asking this be continued New

15:22:36 Mexico January 6, 2011.

15:22:38 >> So moved.

15:22:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.

15:22:40 All in favor signify by saying aye.

15:22:44 >> Did you want a time on that?

15:22:47 Time certain?

15:22:49 >> If you want to put it on the same time as your

15:22:51 review here.

15:22:52 I think you're going to begin.

15:22:55 >> 10:30.




15:22:56 >> 10:30 or 11.

15:22:57 >> 11.

15:23:01 >> Go ahead and just put it on for your 11:00 public

15:23:04 hearings.

15:23:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 11:00.

15:23:08 Okay.

15:23:08 Council, anything else need to come before us?

15:23:11 Anything else?

15:23:13 Anything else from legal?

15:23:15 >> Let's talk about that.

15:23:17 >> I apologize for barging down here in the middle of

15:23:20 that hearing.

15:23:21 I had just been involved in the drafting of the rule

15:23:23 and wanted to refresh my recollection as to what was

15:23:26 intended to do.

15:23:27 The way your rule was previously drafted, it was a

15:23:30 ministerial action when there was a tie vote.

15:23:32 It would automatically go on to the next meeting date.

15:23:37 The legal department made a recommendation, both

15:23:41 myself, Mr. Shelby made a recommendation that we change

15:23:44 had that so it would continued public hearing to be

15:23:47 reset for the purposes of allowing, if there are City




15:23:50 Council members after reviewing the tape or there's

15:23:52 additional questions that come up, were not caught in a

15:23:56 procedural due process quagmire of having something

15:23:58 that hasn't been continued on the record, with no

15:24:02 notice to anybody there's a possibility there may be a

15:24:04 public hearing, while having City Council have the

15:24:08 opportunity to ask additional questions, without having

15:24:10 to re-notice.

15:24:12 The rule was intended to be self-executing, meaning it

15:24:16 did not need an action of City Council.

15:24:17 It should just happen automatically.

15:24:20 If there is' cleanup to the rule that I would

15:24:22 recommend, we didn't put in that it would continue to

15:24:24 the next, the next regular City Council agenda.

15:24:29 So it does leave up the opportunity for City Council to

15:24:32 have to take action on to when to set it.

15:24:34 And it may be a better, a better rule from a

15:24:38 ministerial action to just have the rule self-execute

15:24:41 to the extent that it continues to the next regularly

15:24:46 scheduled City Council meeting, unless there is a

15:24:49 motion and action on City Council to schedule it for

15:24:51 another time.




15:24:51 And I think that would alleviate the need for the vote

15:24:55 because I think what happened today, there was a need

15:24:57 for a vote to set it.

15:24:58 To set the actual public hearing, but it's intended to

15:25:01 be self-executing.

15:25:02 So I'm going to recommend and I actually wrote a little

15:25:04 note on the Marty's version of this to go ahead and

15:25:08 change that language and would recommend that he goes

15:25:12 ahead and brings that language change back so that we

15:25:14 don't have that com conflict in the future.

15:25:17 >> We are going to add the word that the public hearing

15:25:19 shall automatically be reopened.

15:25:21 And continued to next regular meeting at 10:30, unless

15:25:24 otherwise by motion of Council.

15:25:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think another issuing -- thank you

15:25:28 very much.

15:25:28 Do we need a motion for that?

15:25:32 >> If you wish to have this amended.

15:25:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a motion?

15:25:35 >> So moved.

15:25:36 >> Second.

15:25:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.




15:25:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.

15:25:46 Opposes?

15:25:47 I just need to address the issue that was raised

15:25:51 earlier with Mr. Michelini petitioning Councilman

15:25:56 Caetano raised a question about why is it before us.

15:25:58 And I think the issue is, the staff may want to address

15:26:02 that.

15:26:02 You may have advised him there was no method in place,

15:26:06 just so we're clear.

15:26:07 Because he raised the point why is this before us?

15:26:10 You know.

15:26:10 You all recall that?

15:26:15 >>REBECCA KERT: Just because we are talking about

15:26:17 something that was in the middle of a hearing, perhaps

15:26:19 it would be more appropriate for me to address that in

15:26:22 two weeks when it comes back.

15:26:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.

15:26:24 Fine.

15:26:24 Good.

15:26:26 I'm telling you, you all are on it today.

15:26:28 Anything else to come before -- anyone.

15:26:35 Received and filed.




15:26:36 >> So moved.

15:26:37 >> All in favor signify by saying aye.

15:26:39 Anyone from the public wish to address City Council?

15:26:41 Seeing none, okay, we stand adjourned.

15:26:43 Thank you.

15:26:44



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