TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, November 4, 2010
9:00 a.m. session
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09:03:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The chair will yield to Councilwoman
09:03:40 >>MARY MULHERN: Good morning.
09:03:43 I would like to introduce Father Tom Morgan, the pastor
09:03:47 of St. Lawrence Baptist church, born in Louisiana in
09:03:52 1958, moved to Tampa in 1961.
09:03:55 He attended St. Lawrence school in Tampa and graduated
09:03:58 from Tampa Catholic in 1976.
09:04:01 After entering Florida State University, father Tom
09:04:03 left in 1977 for St. John's college seminary in Miami
09:04:09 where he received a bachelor of philosophy.
09:04:12 From there father Tom a extended St. Vincent Paul in
09:04:17 Boynton beach and he was ordained deacon in 1983 and
09:04:22 priest of the Diocese of St. Petersburg in May 1984.
09:04:25 Father Morgan is going to give our invocation this
09:04:29 Thank you.
09:04:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Would you please stand and remain
09:04:32 standing for the pledge of allegiance?
09:04:33 >> Almighty God, we ask for your blessing upon our City
09:04:38 Council as they strive to make the best decisions for
09:04:41 the people of Tampa.
09:04:43 We pray for your wisdom for each of our council
09:04:47 We thank you for the blessing of our city and the life
09:04:50 of each of us.
09:04:51 We pray that all of our citizens may work for and
09:04:54 support what is best for our city.
09:04:58 We pray that whether our families have lived here for
09:05:00 generations or those who have recently arrived that
09:05:03 each of us may embrace the gift of this great city and
09:05:06 that all of us will cherish Tampa as home.
09:05:09 In your name we pray.
09:05:11 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
09:05:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much for come and being
09:05:31 here today.
09:05:32 Thank you.
09:05:34 Roll call.
09:05:34 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
09:05:38 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Present.
09:05:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:05:42 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
09:05:43 >>CURTIS STOKES: Here.
09:05:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
09:05:48 We have a memorandum off from councilman Miranda.
09:05:59 Please be advised I will be unable to attend the
09:06:02 Thursday November 4, 2010 City Council meeting.
09:06:05 I will be out of town.
09:06:06 Please see that the reason for my absence is read into
09:06:10 the record.
09:06:11 That's from councilman Miranda.
09:06:12 Also today, councilman Capin will leave at 11:15 and
09:06:33 return back at 1:30.
09:06:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to approve the minutes.
09:06:35 >> Second.
09:06:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Oh, sorry.
09:06:40 Moved and seconded.
09:06:41 All in favor?
09:06:47 We will review our agenda and then take public
09:06:49 >>MARTIN SHELBY: In front of you, you have the
09:06:51 addendum to today.
09:06:54 You have the addendum to today's agenda.
09:06:57 Item number 1 is a substitution.
09:07:07 There's been a substitute ordinance to correct a
09:07:09 We ask that that be done.
09:07:11 Item number 7 is a lease agreement between the City of
09:07:16 Tampa and the children's museum for the leasing
09:07:19 operation of the Glazer children's museum.
09:07:24 Also a request of the legal department requesting a
09:07:26 substitution of the agreement on that.
09:07:29 Item number 3 is an agreement for land use hearing
09:07:34 And I believe you received a memorandum from Julia Cole
09:07:38 asking that that be continued, that item, to November
09:07:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Which item is that?
09:07:48 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Item number 19.
09:07:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You said item number 3.
09:07:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That's my mistake.
09:07:54 Well, thank you for mentioning that.
09:07:58 That was item 19.
09:08:00 I'm sorry.
09:08:00 Item 19.
09:08:04 I'll try not to do that again.
09:08:07 That is a request for a continuance to November
09:08:10 Ms. Cole would like the opportunity to talk with
09:08:12 council members in advance of that and schedule a
09:08:16 Item number 22 is a resolution regarding the issuance
09:08:23 of utilities tax bonds, and there is a request for a
09:08:27 substitution of exhibits A and D.
09:08:32 Item 48 is a request to substitute the ordinance to
09:08:36 change the date for the completion of the improvements
09:08:38 regarding historic preservation property tax exemption
09:08:47 Then you have, council, three items under staff
09:08:52 Number 63, 65, and 69.
09:08:58 63 under staff reports regarding a report of an
09:09:04 accident that occurred on east Chelsea and north
09:09:09 65 is to discuss the MacDill Air Force Base
09:09:15 suggestions for improvement on transportation.
09:09:19 And 69 is the bicycle master plan and sidewalk plan.
09:09:26 You have received the memorandum from Jean Dorzback on
09:09:29 that as well.
09:09:30 Unfortunately, council, Jean Dorzback is ill today and
09:09:34 Mr. Daignault ultimate is not available to be in today
09:09:37 as well, and the administration is requesting that
09:09:39 those items be continued to a suggested date which is
09:09:44 okay with the administration under staff reports for
09:09:46 December 2nd.
09:09:48 So if we can have that as part of the motion.
09:09:50 Then item 69 --
09:09:57 >> All three of those items are requested for December
09:10:00 Why not the 18th?
09:10:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You can have it on the 18th,
09:10:05 That is a possibility.
09:10:06 That is your last meeting before the Thanksgiving
09:10:11 You do have a night meeting that night.
09:10:14 And you also have the first de novo VRB hearing for
09:10:19 So if council wishes the 18th, you certainly can.
09:10:21 >>GWEN MILLER: No.
09:10:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I just think that that should
09:10:28 always give consideration of council since they
09:10:29 requested continuance, to have adequate staff
09:10:34 available, and Mr. Smith and I had a conversation about
09:10:37 that this morning.
09:10:38 I believe people getting sick and so forth.
09:10:40 But I just understand in the future when you set these
09:10:43 kind things, you know, you want to be able to move
09:10:46 forward and take care of them on City Council relative
09:10:52 to the city.
09:10:52 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And in fairness, council, that date
09:10:56 was my suggestion after consultation with the clerk.
09:10:59 The administration had no objection.
09:11:05 Number 63, 65 and 69.
09:11:15 Item 67 is with number 19, and Ms. Cole is requesting
09:11:24 item 67 be continued to November 18th.
09:11:26 Item number 70 is set for the afternoon, and I will
09:11:30 bring to council's attention now that at that time they
09:11:35 will be required to have a motion to have that item
09:11:38 Number 70 is being withdrawn.
09:11:40 Number 8 cannot be heard because the affidavit and
09:11:44 complete records were not filed.
09:11:45 And that will have to be taken up --
09:11:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Number 8?
09:11:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I did it again, council.
09:11:52 I'm so sorry.
09:11:55 Number 79.
09:11:56 You know what I did?
09:11:58 I will explain what I did.
09:11:59 I will not do it again, I promise you.
09:12:04 [ Laughter ]
09:12:10 Council --
09:12:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I hope that's not a sign of what this
09:12:16 day is going to be like.
09:12:18 [ Laughter ]
09:12:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The last one, 79.
09:12:29 I am not going to live this down.
09:12:31 It's going to be a request to have that continued.
09:12:33 It cannot be heard.
09:12:34 Actually, won't be continued.
09:12:36 It will have to be reset and will be taken up this
09:12:38 afternoon, the date being suggested is December
09:12:40 16th at 10:30 but again that can't be taken up till
09:12:44 For those who might be interested in that, that's on
09:12:46 the file number E-2010-8.
09:12:52 The hearing on Kennedy Dale Mabry center incorporated,
09:12:56 that, council, I believe are all the changes to today's
09:12:59 I am not aware of anything else.
09:13:01 I hope I haven't missed anything and I present it for
09:13:03 your approval.
09:13:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:13:05 Anything else, council?
09:13:08 Motion to approve the changes?
09:13:11 >> Second.
09:13:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The second came before the motion.
09:13:16 [ Laughter ]
09:13:18 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:13:23 Thank you.
09:13:28 We will take public comment at this time, comments on
09:13:32 the agenda first.
09:13:33 Anyone wishing to address City Council may come
09:13:35 Anyone wish to address City Council may come forward.
09:13:38 No one wish to address City Council?
09:13:41 Must be a record.
09:13:46 No public comment?
09:13:47 Then we'll move to the first item on the agenda, the
09:13:50 ordinance being presented.
09:13:51 Item number 1.
09:13:54 Mr. Stokes, do you want to read that?
09:13:59 >>CURTIS STOKES: Ordinance for first reading
09:14:00 consideration, an ordinance of the city of Tampa,
09:14:02 Florida making revisions to City of Tampa code
09:14:05 ordinance chapter 3 alcoholic beverages, chapter 27
09:14:08 zoning, chapter 28 special events, amending section
09:14:11 3-40 regarding possession of open containers on public
09:14:15 property, amending section 3-41 --
09:14:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Read the substitute.
09:14:24 >>CURTIS STOKES: You started it, Marty.
09:14:26 [ Laughter ]
09:14:27 Substitute ordinance being presented for first reading
09:14:33 An ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida making
09:14:35 revisions to City of Tampa code ordinances, chapter 3
09:14:39 alcoholic beverages, chapter 27 zoning, and chapter 28
09:14:42 special events, amending section 3-40, regarding
09:14:46 possession of open containers on public property,
09:14:49 amending section 3-41 regarding possession and
09:14:52 consumption on property operated or supervised by the
09:14:56 Parks and Recreation Department, amending section
09:14:58 27-267 regarding application requirements for special
09:15:02 use permits, amending section 28-28, regarding alcohol
09:15:06 at special events, repealing all ordinances or parts of
09:15:09 ordinances in conflict therewith, providing for
09:15:13 severability, providing an effective date.
09:15:13 >> Second.
09:15:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:15:19 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:15:21 >> Motion carried with Miranda being absent.
09:15:30 Second reading will be November 18th at 9:30 a.m.
09:15:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item number 2.
09:15:36 Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:15:37 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance being presented
09:15:40 for first reading consideration, an ordinance of the
09:15:44 city of Tampa, Florida amending City of Tampa code of
09:15:47 ordinances, chapter 22 streets and sidewalks, section
09:15:50 22-156, abandoned news racks, and section 23-5-5,
09:15:58 schedule of violations and penalties, repealing all
09:16:01 ordinances or parts of ordinances in conflict,
09:16:03 providing for severability, providing an effective
09:16:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Capin.
09:16:13 All in favor?
09:16:14 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent.
09:16:17 Second reading of the ordinance will be held November
09:16:20 18th at 9:30 a.m.
09:16:22 >> we move now to our committee reports.
09:16:26 Councilwoman Gwen Miller, public safety 69 move
09:16:29 resolutions 3 through 6.
09:16:32 >>CURTIS STOKES: Second.
09:16:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Stokes.
09:16:34 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:16:38 Parks and recreation, councilman Stokes.
09:16:43 >>CURTIS STOKES: Move item 7 through 15, please.
09:16:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have a substitute for item 7,
09:16:48 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe so, yes.
09:16:52 Mr. Chairman, if I can.
09:16:53 I had the opportunity to discuss this with Mr. Stokes.
09:16:57 The agreement references Fifth Third Bank by whom Mr.
09:17:01 Stokes is employed.
09:17:02 I have had the opportunity to review that, and it is my
09:17:07 opinion that that agreement specifically excludes Fifth
09:17:13 Third Bank.
09:17:14 This action that council is taken did not inure to
09:17:17 Fifth Third Bank's special private gain or loss and it
09:17:19 is my professional opinion that as it is Mr. Stokes'
09:17:24 obligation under the Florida statute that he vote for
09:17:26 this item.
09:17:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:17:31 All in favor?
09:17:33 Public works.
09:17:34 Councilwoman Capin.
09:17:41 All right, public works.
09:17:47 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I move item 16.
09:17:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:17:54 All in favor?
09:17:56 Finance Committee.
09:17:56 Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:17:58 >>MARY MULHERN: I move items 17 through 26,
09:18:09 including -- I'm sorry, 17 through 18, and 20 through
09:18:16 26, including a substitute ordinance for number 22,
09:18:28 substituting exhibits A and B.
09:18:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:18:36 All in favor?
09:18:38 19 we continued.
09:18:39 >>MARY MULHERN: I move that we continue item number 19
09:18:42 till November 19th.
09:18:43 >> Second.
09:18:47 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That was part of the motion.
09:18:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We already did that.
09:18:51 Building and zoning.
09:18:52 Councilman Caetano.
09:18:54 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like to move 27 through
09:18:57 number 40.
09:18:58 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
09:19:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:19:03 All in favor?
09:19:07 Transportation committee.
09:19:08 Councilwoman Capin.
09:19:11 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I move item 41.
09:19:13 >> Second.
09:19:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Stokes.
09:19:18 All in favor?
09:19:20 We set the public hearings.
09:19:21 Item 42 through 45.
09:19:23 >>GWEN MILLER: So moved.
09:19:24 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
09:19:25 >> All in favor?
09:19:38 All right.
09:19:39 We are now under the 9:30 items which we can't take up
09:19:42 right now.
09:19:43 Is that right?
09:19:44 Let's move to new business.
09:19:51 >>CURTIS STOKES: I would like to ask if we could have
09:19:55 for a presentation on the campaign next scheduled board
09:20:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That would be regular meeting, the
09:20:04 Is there a second?
09:20:07 Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:20:09 All in favor?
09:20:14 Councilwoman Mulhern?
09:20:18 Councilwoman Miller? Councilwoman Capin?
09:20:21 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you, chairman.
09:20:22 Please, I would like to make a motion to present a
09:20:25 commendation to Tyler Shoray, a Boy Scout in troop 45,
09:20:32 for attaining the rank of Eagle Scout.
09:20:38 >> Second.
09:20:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
09:20:41 Councilman Caetano?
09:20:43 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: What's that?
09:20:47 >> New business?
09:20:48 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I have no new business other
09:20:51 than -- well, I'll tell you later.
09:20:53 [ Laughter ]
09:20:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: In session you mean?
09:21:01 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I got a call this morning to take
09:21:03 a truck to Tallahassee with some fresh brooms.
09:21:07 I don't know what they are going to do with it.
09:21:08 I told them I couldn't go, that I have a meeting.
09:21:12 [ Laughter ]
09:21:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, thank you.
09:21:22 I'm going to leave that one alone.
09:21:26 I'm going to leave that alone.
09:21:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: There's an item of new business on
09:21:31 your addendum, a request by Jean Dorzback a memorandum
09:21:35 requesting scheduling of a workshop on January 27th
09:21:40 and suggested time by the clerk's office 10 a.m.
09:21:42 regarding the final draft of the amendments to chapter
09:21:45 25, your TCEA procedures, amendments to chapter 17.5
09:21:50 concurrency management.
09:21:51 If that could be set for a workshop per the request of
09:21:54 the transportation division.
09:21:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And time is 10:00.
09:22:00 Is there a motion?
09:22:02 Second to that?
09:22:04 >> Second.
09:22:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and sec he had.
09:22:06 All in favor?
09:22:10 I have an item that I need to bring to our attention,
09:22:15 And I believe in Sunday's paper there was an article
09:22:19 about the abandoned property or the property over on
09:22:23 Dale Mabry and Gray Street, the house that was there.
09:22:27 What I would like to do is request administration to
09:22:29 appear before us at our next regular meeting and to
09:22:34 really give us a report on how we can assist and help
09:22:39 to maybe identify or look at how many of these areas
09:22:42 are like this, or how many of these -- what we can do
09:22:46 to secure them, and what is being done to secure them,
09:22:51 if council needs to pass an ordinance to address that
09:22:54 issue so that we can make sure that those properties
09:22:56 such as have been put up for sale or whatever, that the
09:23:01 neighborhoods are not invaded or become insecure
09:23:07 because of those who may be living in those facilities.
09:23:10 So what I would like to do again is ask the
09:23:12 administration to appear before us at our next meeting
09:23:15 to talk about this issue, and to look at what we can do
09:23:20 as a council or as administration to work towards
09:23:24 making sure those places are safe and secure.
09:23:27 >>MARY MULHERN: That's the one on Dale Mabry?
09:23:29 >> Yes.
09:23:32 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Second.
09:23:32 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
09:23:34 All in favor?
09:23:35 >> okay.
09:23:36 Also, I also would like to have the administration and
09:23:42 legal to look at how does this fall in line with the
09:23:46 ordinance we passed relative to foreclosed property or
09:23:50 abandoned property, how they have been registered and
09:23:56 I would like them to come along with that report as
09:24:00 We can include that as part of the motion.
09:24:03 Is that something we can do?
09:24:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
09:24:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So let's include that.
09:24:07 Is that okay?
09:24:11 Any other new business before us?
09:24:14 Is there any item that we can take up?
09:24:16 We still have five minutes before 9:30 since we all
09:24:19 moved real fast this morning.
09:24:20 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And that's in spite of me taking
09:24:23 extra time.
09:24:26 Council, there's item 68 under staff reports.
09:24:33 It's just ministerial, ratifying your appointments to
09:24:36 the equal business advisory committee that you
09:24:38 originally did.
09:24:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So we can take that.
09:24:42 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just have to move the resolution.
09:24:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Move the resolution.
09:24:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Stokes.
09:24:49 Item number 68.
09:24:51 On those appointments we made at our meeting.
09:24:54 Moved and seconded.
09:24:55 All in favor?
09:24:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Ms. Kert says we can take up item 62
09:25:13 because it was also taken up as part of item 2, the
09:25:16 news rack ordinance.
09:25:17 >>REBECCA KERT: I was here about making a revision
09:25:22 regarding the abandoned news racks which I did under
09:25:25 number 2, so actually number 62 is now complete.
09:25:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 62.
09:25:30 So do we have a motion on that?
09:25:38 Moved by councilman Stokes, seconded by Councilwoman
09:25:42 All in favor?
09:25:45 Is there anything else we can take up before 9:30?
09:25:52 Then why don't we just take a four-minute break,
09:25:59 four-minute recess and then come back.
09:32:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come to
09:34:51 Roll call.
09:05:34 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
09:05:37 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Here.
09:05:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:05:42 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
09:05:43 >>CURTIS STOKES: Here.
09:05:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
09:34:59 We'll pick up now our 9:30 items.
09:35:06 Which is our first one will be item 46.
09:35:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to open.
09:35:15 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Second.
09:35:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
09:35:19 This is all our second reading on public hearings.
09:35:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The motion was to open up all of
09:35:27 >> Yes.
09:35:28 Item 46.
09:35:29 Item 46.
09:35:30 Anyone from the public wish to address council on item
09:35:37 >> Good morning.
09:35:42 I have not been sworn.
09:35:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: This is a nonquasi-judicial item.
09:35:48 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: My name is John Grandoff.
09:35:50 Residence 4611 Tennison Avenue in Sunset Park.
09:35:54 I'm here to speak to you on item 46 and urge you to
09:35:58 pass this ordinance on second reading for the simple
09:36:03 reason that it lends dignity to your office and the
09:36:08 office of the City Council, and I will leave it at
09:36:14 Thank you very much.
09:36:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else from the public?
09:36:21 Yes, Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:36:22 >>MARY MULHERN: I had a question for Chip.
09:36:27 Not here.
09:36:35 Any lawyer.
09:36:37 [ Laughter ]
09:36:40 >>SAL TERRITO: Legal department.
09:36:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Grandoff is a lawyer, now.
09:36:45 >>MARY MULHERN: I wanted to hear what Mr. Grandoff was
09:36:50 going to say, because I disagree with this that it adds
09:36:53 dignity to our office.
09:36:55 Here is my question.
09:36:56 We didn't really have a discussion about this when it
09:36:58 passed on first reading.
09:36:59 But since it did pass, a lot of people have said to me
09:37:03 that they question whether was -- could be
09:37:09 Constitutionally challenged, that we are subverting the
09:37:15 will of the voters and that we as a local City Council
09:37:18 would be telling people who can and can't run for
09:37:29 >>SAL TERRITO: Saved by the bell.
09:37:30 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: City attorney.
09:37:35 I'm sorry, I did not hear the question.
09:37:37 >>MARY MULHERN: Since this got passed on first reading
09:37:40 a lot of people questioned to me whether this could be
09:37:44 challenged Constitutionally because it's kind of
09:37:48 subverting the decision of voters and citizens about
09:37:54 whether they should be able to run for office.
09:37:58 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Yes, that sentiment, that argument
09:38:01 is the same essential argument that was made regarding
09:38:06 term limits, and the courts have held that legislative
09:38:11 bodies like yourself, local governments, have broad
09:38:13 discretion to set standards for seeking office as long
09:38:17 as there is a rational basis for that decision.
09:38:22 It's not subject to strict scrutiny.
09:38:26 So long as it doesn't effect the protected class,
09:38:30 gender, race, national origin, et cetera.
09:38:33 So in this case, it's pretty clear, I think, on its
09:38:41 face it's valid provided that council is able to
09:38:44 articulate a rational basis for the decision, and then
09:38:48 these types of ordinances can also be challenged as
09:38:53 We would have to evaluate that when in fact it was
09:38:56 challenged as applied.
09:38:57 But in the term limit cases and the other cases where
09:39:01 you do have a restriction on someone running after
09:39:03 resigning, they have been upheld in other states.
09:39:07 >>MARY MULHERN: For a new election?
09:39:10 It's a new election.
09:39:11 That's write don't see it as totally as to term limits.
09:39:17 The term limit is per term.
09:39:21 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Right.
09:39:24 And many local governments have what they call a
09:39:26 cooling-off period where you can't run offer you
09:39:28 complete those terms, or you can't --
09:39:31 >>MARY MULHERN: But do they have it in this case?
09:39:34 We have that.
09:39:37 If you served two terms in two different district
09:39:41 consecutively, you can't run again.
09:39:43 Is that correct?
09:39:46 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: You can switch between district
09:39:47 and city-wide seats.
09:39:49 We do not have a cooling-off period.
09:39:51 >>MARY MULHERN: So you could continually keep
09:39:55 switching districts?
09:39:58 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Yes, ma'am.
09:39:58 >>MARY MULHERN: To me, to put a limitation on that,
09:40:03 that makes sense.
09:40:04 Or even after two terms to say you have to take four
09:40:08 terms off.
09:40:08 But to tell someone who has only served one term that
09:40:11 they can't come back and run for a second term, to me
09:40:16 it doesn't seem fair.
09:40:17 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: And that's council's choice.
09:40:21 And I can understand that.
09:40:23 The cases where these types of things have been upheld,
09:40:26 the courts have looked to --
09:40:30 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, is there a case that's like
09:40:33 this, a resign to run slash -- to come back and run
09:40:38 for --
09:40:40 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I do not have my case file in
09:40:43 front of me, but in the northeast there is a state
09:40:46 statute that prevents people from coming back after
09:40:52 Now, there's cases where they have been enforced, which
09:40:55 would apply here; where scenarios where folks resigned
09:41:03 under a cloud of some sort.
09:41:04 In some cases where that was challenged, the individual
09:41:07 was indicted, I believe, and then acquitted or
09:41:11 convicted and then overturned on appeal.
09:41:13 I don't remember the exact factual scenario.
09:41:16 Taught sought to come back to the next election, and
09:41:19 that statute prohibited him from doing that, and that
09:41:21 statute was upheld.
09:41:23 A similar type of case are these cooling-off periods
09:41:28 where they have been extended, therefore affecting the
09:41:33 ability of past council members to run again for a
09:41:37 longer period of time, even though they have completed
09:41:40 their term limit.
09:41:42 So they are not exactly the same.
09:41:44 But they are kind of similar.
09:41:46 But all of these types of things usually are somewhat
09:41:49 unique, and this certainly is a unique one as well, to
09:41:54 my knowledge.
09:41:54 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, I think -- whatever.
09:42:02 You answered my questions.
09:42:03 But I don't see that it's that clearly -- there's that
09:42:08 clearly a residents for this and I figure if anybody
09:42:11 wanted to challenge it, I think they might have a case.
09:42:16 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: If I could just address that
09:42:20 On its face, council has the authority to do this, I
09:42:25 The question is then how it's evaluated as applied to a
09:42:30 particular candidate, and I can't address that answer
09:42:32 for you because it would depend on the facts of that
09:42:35 particular candidate.
09:42:36 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.
09:42:37 Well, what about -- I don't see a candidate necessarily
09:42:41 challenging it, but I think what I have been hearing
09:42:45 from who I have been hearing from are voters.
09:42:48 So -- okay.
09:42:52 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: The folks that have standing
09:42:55 typically are the candidates.
09:42:56 I'm not aware of a case where a voter has been able to
09:42:59 directly challenge one of these on their face.
09:43:02 I'm not saying it couldn't happen.
09:43:03 But typically the cases are as applied to a voter --
09:43:08 I'm sorry, as applied to a candidate, not a voter.
09:43:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: First of all, anything can be
09:43:17 Whether it's upheld, that's a different issue.
09:43:20 We had originally a number of court cases that's been
09:43:23 challenged for various reasons.
09:43:24 So therefore anything could be challenged by anybody.
09:43:28 If they have the money and they want to go to court,
09:43:31 they can do that.
09:43:31 That's one.
09:43:32 Secondly, it is my understanding that the structure of
09:43:35 this is if I have served on City Council, whether it be
09:43:41 one term or two year, and I decide to run for another
09:43:45 office, desire to run for another office, I resign from
09:43:50 my seat to run for another office, and I go to run
09:43:55 somewhere else, and I lose, then all of a sudden I want
09:43:57 to come back, I think that's what it's addressing here,
09:44:03 is that there's opportunity for people to understand
09:44:08 that if I want to run anyway for City Council,
09:44:10 whatever, I guess I should have applied or stayed
09:44:16 there, whatever it is.
09:44:17 That's the intent.
09:44:18 But certainly we don't want to give people the
09:44:24 opportunity where they can become, I guess, make this a
09:44:29 career, I guess it is, what it sounds like, they become
09:44:32 a career politician, that they just bounce around here
09:44:35 and there and run for everything, is what it sounds
09:44:37 like to me.
09:44:38 And an open opportunity for new people to run as well.
09:44:45 One of the things that's important here is a lot of
09:44:49 times is -- and that's what attorneys are supposed to
09:44:52 do, give opportunities for -- again I'm not a strong
09:44:55 advocate for term limits, but at the same time it
09:44:59 affords opportunity for new people to come and run for
09:45:01 the office.
09:45:02 I do believe there's value in institutional knowledge
09:45:04 as well, you know.
09:45:05 So I think that's why -- of course, councilman Miranda
09:45:11 brought this forth a few months ago and then councilman
09:45:14 Caetano brought it back a couple of weeks ago.
09:45:18 Yes, sir, councilman Caetano.
09:45:19 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, thank you.
09:45:21 This is not about any particular person or persons.
09:45:26 This will expand the participation of new people who
09:45:29 want to become a City Councilor.
09:45:32 They have new ideas, new blood.
09:45:35 It will diminish the power of incumbency.
09:45:41 Like Reverend Scott said, people make it a career, and
09:45:44 that's not what we want.
09:45:46 This will reduce the opportunity of people that want to
09:45:48 gain the system and be here, whether they were
09:45:53 convicted of a crime or essentially left on some legal
09:45:57 matters and decide they want to come back.
09:46:00 It shouldn't be used for that.
09:46:01 And that's what is going to prevent this.
09:46:06 Thank you.
09:46:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think also you need to speak to the
09:46:09 issue, because it's my understanding this only governs
09:46:13 City Council.
09:46:13 It does not govern any other municipalities or any
09:46:16 other race.
09:46:17 Only the City Council elections.
09:46:19 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Yes.
09:46:21 It only applies to folks that have resigned for office
09:46:25 or left office or been removed from office and then
09:46:28 want to seek that same type of office again.
09:46:31 So it doesn't preclude running for other offices, other
09:46:38 It's simply addressing a council member who has not
09:46:41 completed their term, whether they resigned or were
09:46:45 removed, and seeks to somehow undo that decision or
09:46:50 undo that removal by getting the voters to then
09:46:56 reinstate them, essentially.
09:46:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?
09:47:05 Anything you need to add?
09:47:07 >> No, no, ma'am.
09:47:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:47:09 Motion to close?
09:47:11 Moved and second.
09:47:17 Councilwoman Miller?
09:47:19 >>GWEN MILLER: An ordinance moved for second reading,
09:47:22 an ordinance of the City of Tampa creating section 10-3
09:47:25 of the City of Tampa code of ordinance, providing for
09:47:28 additional limitations or reelections to City Council
09:47:34 after resignation or removal from office, providing for
09:47:38 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
09:47:39 effective date.
09:47:39 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That is a motion to adopt?
09:47:42 >>GWEN MILLER: A motion to adopt for second reading.
09:47:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Stokes.
09:47:48 Record your vote.
09:47:53 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Capin and Mulhern
09:47:56 voting no, and Miranda being absent.
09:47:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:48:03 We need to swear all the witnesses in at this time.
09:48:06 If you are going to be addressing City Council, please
09:48:08 stand to be sworn at this time.
09:48:22 Oat oath.
09:48:23 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I ask that all documents received by
09:48:27 City Council office be received and filed into the
09:48:30 record at this time.
09:48:31 >> Motion.
09:48:32 >> Second.
09:48:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
09:48:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And if you have had any ex parte
09:48:38 communications relative to any of today's hearings
09:48:40 please before your vote disclose the sum and substance
09:48:43 of that communication, with whom that occurred.
09:48:45 Finally if you do speak today, please make sure that
09:48:47 you have signed the sign-in sheet at the lectern
09:48:51 Thank you very much.
09:48:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 47.
09:48:55 Item 47.
09:48:56 Anyone wish to address council on item 47?
09:48:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
09:49:01 >> Second.
09:49:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:49:04 All in favor?
09:49:05 Councilman Caetano.
09:49:06 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: An ordinance for second reading
09:49:09 and adoption.
09:49:10 An ordinance vacating, closing, discontinuing,
09:49:13 abandoning certain right-of-way of way alleyway lying
09:49:17 north south of 1th Avenue, north of interstate
09:49:21 highway 4, east of cord street, and west of 46th
09:49:25 street in Oak Park subdivision a subdivision in the
09:49:28 City of Tampa, Hillsborough County Florida the same
09:49:30 being more fully described in section 2 hereof subject
09:49:33 to certain easements, covenants, conditions and
09:49:36 restrictions as more particularly described herein
09:49:39 providing an effective date.
09:49:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:49:42 Record your vote, please.
09:49:43 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Capin absent at vote
09:49:57 and Miranda being absent.
09:49:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 48.
09:50:01 Anyone from the public wish to address council on item
09:50:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
09:50:07 >> Second.
09:50:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:50:10 All in favor?
09:50:14 Item 48 is a substitute.
09:50:15 Councilman Stokes, would you read the substitute?
09:50:19 >>GWEN MILLER: At the bottom of the painful.
09:50:21 >>CURTIS STOKES: Thank you.
09:50:21 Substitute ordinance being presented for second reading
09:50:23 and adoption.
09:50:24 An ordinance approving an historic preservation
09:50:27 property tax exemption application relative to the
09:50:29 restoration, renovation or rehabilitation of certain
09:50:31 property owned by Michael S. Ward and Giselle V. Ward
09:50:39 located at 407 South Royal Palm Way, Tampa, Florida in
09:50:43 the Beach Park multiple properties designation historic
09:50:46 district, based upon certain findings, providing for
09:50:48 notice to the property appraiser of Hillsborough
09:50:50 County, providing for severability, providing for
09:50:53 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
09:50:55 effective date.
09:50:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:50:59 Record your vote, please.
09:51:00 >> Motion carried with Capin being absent at vote and
09:51:11 Miranda being absent.
09:51:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 4849.
09:51:15 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land Development Coordination.
09:51:18 Items number 49 through 61 on your agenda this morning
09:51:22 require certified site plans.
09:51:24 The zoning administrator has certified all site plans
09:51:28 with the exception of item number 50 which she is
09:51:32 reviewing at this moment, she asks if that can be
09:51:37 continued until 1:30 this afternoon.
09:51:41 And item number 60 was not able to be certified, and
09:51:45 that would need to be continued to the next morning
09:51:48 meeting which would be November 18th at 9:30.
09:51:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 60?
09:51:55 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Yes, sir.
09:51:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And continue it to the 1th at
09:51:59 So we need a motion to continue item 50 to 1:30.
09:52:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If we can, is the petitioner here on
09:52:07 item 50?
09:52:10 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Yes.
09:52:11 I spoke with him this morning.
09:52:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Item number 50, Mr. Chairman, is a
09:52:14 case where it was a 4-3 vote on first reading, and
09:52:18 councilman Miranda is not here today, and I am
09:52:21 wondering rather than come back, unless the
09:52:26 petitioner -- may I ask the petitioner to come forward,
09:52:30 please, Mr. Chairman, with your indulgence?
09:52:33 >> Yes.
09:52:34 Petitioner, if you would come forward.
09:52:36 >> Do you want to do 49?
09:52:41 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Well, in what order do you want to
09:52:43 take it up?
09:52:46 >> Item 50.
09:52:47 My recommendation is that he may want to continue it to
09:52:50 when we have a full board, because.
09:53:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Under your new rules if there is a
09:53:02 tie vote it is continue to the next date when there is
09:53:04 a full council present.
09:53:06 It may be in council's best interest and petitioner's
09:53:11 best interest to continue this to a regular meeting
09:53:12 when the full council is present.
09:53:15 Do you have any objection to having that continued?
09:53:19 >> No, sir.
09:53:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, do you want to take it
09:53:23 up in order or take it when we come to it?
09:53:27 >> Well, to continue it to the 1th, we can go ahead
09:53:30 and include that in item 60.
09:53:31 Both can be continued to the morning of the 18th.
09:53:33 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: So moved, Mr. Chairman.
09:53:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did you want to ask if there's
09:53:39 anybody that wants to address the continuance?
09:53:41 >> Anyone here who wishes to address the continuance on
09:53:45 50 or 60?
09:53:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I see no one.
09:53:55 So it will be to continue to the 18th at 9:30 a.m.
09:54:01 All in favor?
09:54:04 Item 49.
09:54:05 Anyone from the public wish to address council on item
09:54:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
09:54:10 >> Second.
09:54:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:54:13 All in favor?
09:54:14 Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:54:15 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance being presented
09:54:19 for second reading and adoption, an ordinance approving
09:54:22 a special use permit S-2 approving a place of religious
09:54:25 assembly in an RS-60 residential single-family zoning
09:54:28 district in the general vicinity of 1106 east 109th
09:54:34 Avenue in the city of Tampa, Florida and as more
09:54:36 particularly described in section 1 hereof providing an
09:54:40 effective date.
09:54:44 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Second.
09:54:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Caetano.
09:54:48 Record your vote, please.
09:54:49 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent.
09:54:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 51.
09:55:02 Item 51.
09:55:02 Anyone wish to address council on item 51?
09:55:05 >> My name is Walter AME, residence 810 south Edison.
09:55:15 I'm here on behalf of Thad's gourmet restaurant and its
09:55:23 110 employees.
09:55:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Does anyone else here quantity to
09:55:26 speak in opposition to this petition?
09:55:28 Motion to close?
09:55:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion to close.
09:55:30 >> Second.
09:55:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
09:55:33 >>GWEN MILLER: I move to adopt the following ordinance
09:55:35 upon second reading, an ordinance repealing ordinance
09:55:39 2008-166, an ordinance approving a special use permit
09:55:43 S-2 for alcoholic beverages sales, small venue making
09:55:47 lawful the sale of beverages containing alcohol
09:55:49 regardless of alcoholic content beer, wine and liquor
09:55:53 4(COP) for consumption on the premises and in sealed
09:55:56 containers for consumption off the premises on that
09:55:58 certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 2616
09:56:02 South MacDill Avenue, Tampa, Florida, as more
09:56:06 particularly described in section 2 hereof, providing
09:56:08 for repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
09:56:11 effective date.
09:56:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:56:15 Record your vote, please.
09:56:16 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried westbound Miranda being
09:56:22 >> Thank you all very much.
09:56:25 Please have a great day.
09:56:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:56:27 Item 52.
09:56:29 Anyone wish to address council on item 572?
09:56:31 69 move to close.
09:56:33 >> Second.
09:56:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:56:35 All in favor?
09:56:37 Item 52.
09:56:38 Councilwoman Capin.
09:56:42 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I move an ordinance being presented for
09:56:44 second reading and adoption, an ordinance approving a
09:56:46 special use permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales,
09:56:49 small venue and making lawful the sale of beverages
09:56:52 containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight and not
09:56:55 more than 14% by weight and wines regardless of
09:56:59 alcoholic content, beer and wine 2(APS), in sealed
09:57:04 containers for consumption off premises only at or from
09:57:08 that certain lot, plot or tract of land located ate
09:57:11 2111 east Busch Boulevard, Tampa, Florida, as more
09:57:15 particularly described in section 2 hereof providing
09:57:19 for repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
09:57:22 effective date.
09:57:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Stokes.
09:57:27 Record your vote, please.
09:57:28 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent.
09:57:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 53.
09:57:41 Anyone wish to address council on item 53?
09:57:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
09:57:46 >> Second.
09:57:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
09:57:51 Item 53.
09:57:53 Councilman Caetano.
09:57:54 >> An ordinance being presented for second reading and
09:57:58 adoption, an ordinance approving a special use permit
09:58:00 S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales, small venue and
09:58:03 making lawful the sale of beverages containing alcohol
09:58:05 of more than 1% by weight an not more than 14% by
09:58:09 weight and wines regardless of alcoholic content beer
09:58:12 and wine 2(APS) in sealed containers for consumption
09:58:15 off premises only at or from that certain lot, plot or
09:58:20 tract of land located at 3917 north Nebraska Avenue,
09:58:24 Tampa, Florida, as more particularly described in
09:58:26 section 2 hereof, providing for repeal of all
09:58:31 ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.
09:58:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Capin.
09:58:40 Record your vote.
09:58:41 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent.
09:58:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 54.
09:58:51 Anyone from the public wish to address council on item
09:58:54 >> Move to close.
09:59:04 >> Second.
09:59:04 (Motion carried).
09:59:07 >>CURTIS STOKES: An ordinance for second reading and
09:59:09 adoption, an ordinance approving special use permit S-2
09:59:13 for alcoholic beverage sales small venue and making
09:59:16 lawful the sale of beverages containing alcohol of more
09:59:18 than 1% by weight and not more than 14% by weight and
09:59:21 wines regardless of alcoholic content beer and wine
09:59:25 2(APS) in sealed containers for consumption off
09:59:27 premises only at or from that certain lot plot or tract
09:59:30 of land located at 473 West Gandy Boulevard, Tampa,
09:59:33 Florida as more particularly described in section 2
09:59:35 hereof providing for repeal of all ordinances in
09:59:38 conflict, providing an effective date.
09:59:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:59:44 All in favor?
09:59:46 Record your vote.
09:59:48 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent.
09:59:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 55.
09:59:58 Anyone from the public wish to address council?
10:00:00 >> moved and seconded.
10:00:08 >>MARY MULHERN: Move an ordinance being presented for
10:00:11 second reading and adoption, an ordinance approving a
10:00:13 special use ferment permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage
10:00:16 sales small venue and making lawful the sale of
10:00:18 beverages containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight
10:00:21 and not more than 14% by weight and wines regardless of
10:00:24 alcoholic content beer and wine 2(APS) in sealed
10:00:27 containers for consumption off premises only at or from
10:00:30 that certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 3016
10:00:34 West Gandy Boulevard, Tampa, Florida as more
10:00:36 particularly described in section 2 hereof providing
10:00:39 for repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
10:00:42 effective date.
10:00:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Caetano.
10:00:50 Record your vote.
10:00:50 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent.
10:00:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 56.
10:01:00 Anyone from the public wish to address council on item
10:01:05 Moved and seconded.
10:01:06 All in favor?
10:01:10 >>GWEN MILLER: I move to adopt the following ordinance
10:01:12 upon second reading, an ordinance approving a special
10:01:14 use permit S-2 alcoholic beverage sales small venue
10:01:18 making lawful the sale of beverages containing alcohol
10:01:21 of more than 1% by weight and not more than 14% by
10:01:25 weight and wines regardless of alcoholic content beer
10:01:27 and wine 2(APS) in sealed containers for consumption
10:01:31 off premises only at or from that certain lot, plot or
10:01:36 tract of land located at 25502 and 2504 North Armenia
10:01:41 Avenue, Tampa, Florida as more particularly described
10:01:43 in section 2 hereof, providing for repeal of all
10:01:46 ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.
10:01:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Stokes.
10:01:52 Record your vote, please.
10:01:53 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent.
10:02:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 57.
10:02:02 Item 57.
10:02:03 Anyone from the public wish to address council?
10:02:07 Motion to close, please.
10:02:08 >> Motion to close.
10:02:13 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Second.
10:02:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 57.
10:02:17 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Move an ordinance being presented for
10:02:19 second reading and adoption, an ordinance approving a
10:02:21 special use permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales
10:02:24 small venue and making lawful the sale of beverages
10:02:26 containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight an not
10:02:30 more than 14% by weight and wines regardless of
10:02:33 alcoholic content beer and wine 2(COP) for consumption
10:02:37 on premises and in sealed containers for consumption
10:02:41 off premises at or from that certain lot, plot or tract
10:02:44 of land located at 1540 North Franklin Street and 1609
10:02:50 North Tampa Street, Tampa, Florida as more particularly
10:02:53 described in section 2 hereof providing for repeal of
10:02:56 all ordinances in conflict, providing an effective
10:02:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:03:04 Record your vote, please.
10:03:05 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent.
10:03:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 58.
10:03:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
10:03:18 >> Second.
10:03:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
10:03:20 Councilman Caetano.
10:03:22 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: An ordinance presented for second
10:03:24 reading and adoption, an ordinance rezoning property in
10:03:27 the general vicinity of 2205 north Dundee street in the
10:03:30 city of Tampa, Florida and more particularly described
10:03:32 in section 1 from zoning district classifications RS-75
10:03:35 residential single-family to PD planned development
10:03:38 single-family detached, providing an effective date.
10:03:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:03:50 Record your vote, please.
10:03:52 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent.
10:03:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 59.
10:04:01 Anyone from the public wishing to address counsel on
10:04:04 item 59?
10:04:05 >> Move to close.
10:04:05 >> Second.
10:04:08 >>CURTIS STOKES: An ordinance presented on sec reading
10:04:09 and adoption, an ordinance rezoning property in the
10:04:12 general vicinity of 3518 Henderson Boulevard and 3409
10:04:16 and 3411 West Swann Avenue in the city of Tampa,
10:04:18 Florida and more particularly described in section 1
10:04:22 from zoning district classifications CG commercial
10:04:26 general and RM-24 residential multifamily to PD planned
10:04:30 development, retail, pharmacy with drive-in window,
10:04:33 providing an effective date.
10:04:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Capin.
10:04:37 Record your vote, please.
10:04:38 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent.
10:04:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 61.
10:04:49 Item 61.
10:04:50 Anyone from the public wish to address council on item
10:04:53 >> Move to close.
10:04:59 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
10:04:59 (Motion carried).
10:05:03 (Motion carried).
10:05:03 >>MARY MULHERN: Move an ordinance for second reading
10:05:06 and adoption, an ordinance rezoning property in the
10:05:10 general vicinity of 4109, 4111 and 4113 West Cypress
10:05:14 street in the city of Tampa, Florida and more
10:05:16 particularly described in section 1 from zoning
10:05:18 district classifications RS-50 residential
10:05:21 single-family and PD planned development, office,
10:05:23 business professional, to PD, planned development,
10:05:26 office, business professional, providing an effective
10:05:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Capin.
10:05:31 Record your vote, please.
10:05:33 Roll call.
10:05:33 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Yes.
10:05:37 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes.
10:05:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
10:05:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
10:05:44 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
10:05:46 >>CURTIS STOKES: Yes.
10:05:46 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda being absent.
10:05:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We'll take up now our staff reports at
10:05:55 10:00 item.
10:05:58 Item 64.
10:06:05 Pits council's rule, I believe, relative to, I guess,
10:06:08 the parking fees, the fees that -- 64.
10:06:17 >> What about 62?
10:06:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It's been taken care of as a result
10:06:23 of passing the ordinance earlier.
10:06:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 63 has been continued.
10:06:37 Anybody here for 64?
10:06:38 >>JULIA COLE: City of Tampa legal department.
10:06:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The crosswalk.
10:06:47 >>JULIA COLE: I understand Mr. Lee was not able to be
10:06:50 here this morning, but they are reducing the fee down
10:06:53 to a rate which is approximately just about half of
10:06:56 what it is today.
10:06:57 If there's any questions, we can go ahead and continue
10:07:00 the item but if you are comfortable moving forward, I
10:07:03 think all of the backup information is in the record.
10:07:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council, do you have any question?
10:07:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Move the resolution.
10:07:09 >> Second.
10:07:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
10:07:15 All in favor?
10:07:17 Again, this is the sidewalk fees being reduced down, I
10:07:23 think $29 a linear foot.
10:07:28 Item 66.
10:07:32 Item 66.
10:07:35 Legal department.
10:07:35 >> I just spoke to Ms. Coyle and she is on her way over
10:07:39 to give a report about this particular item.
10:07:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I guess we are moving too fast today.
10:07:44 >>JULIA COLE: If you want me to go ahead and start the
10:07:51 item prior to Ms. Coyle, but she has the ordinances
10:07:54 that she wanted to hand out.
10:07:55 And I could just go ahead and procedurally tell you
10:07:58 what we have in front of us right now.
10:08:01 And I would be able to talk long enough that she is now
10:08:04 walking in the door.
10:08:10 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
10:08:12 I did -- this is not an official report.
10:08:15 I am going to give to the you verbally.
10:08:16 I just brought some interesting information in my
10:08:19 research on drive-throughs.
10:08:32 The ordinance I handed you -- and it sad Charlie is not
10:08:37 He was the chairman when this went through.
10:08:39 The ordinance went through in the 1999 that actually
10:08:41 changed drive-in windows for banks, restaurants, and --
10:08:47 banks and restaurants and regular drive-in windows
10:08:50 associated with any other use, to a special use 2 in
10:08:55 the CG district.
10:08:58 What that came from after my research and speaking with
10:09:00 the former zoning administrator, and looking back at
10:09:04 the cases that came through the city and permitting,
10:09:09 there was a drive-through associated with a pharmacy
10:09:13 that was constructed on Henderson Boulevard, and
10:09:16 apparently there was a complaint from the neighbor
10:09:18 after it was constructed to City Council, and due to
10:09:22 that complaint, City Council at that time looked into
10:09:24 the regulations of drive-in windows, and responded with
10:09:29 directing a change to make them special uses for public
10:09:34 So that the public would have the opportunity to come
10:09:36 and speak about them in that particular district.
10:09:40 There was also a change in that ordinance.
10:09:42 You can see I highlighted on the second page that they
10:09:44 would become special use 1 requests in the OP, OP-1 and
10:09:50 CI district for bank drive-ins, and S-1 in a CI
10:09:54 district for restaurant drive-ins.
10:09:57 So as it happens even today, if you hear a City Council
10:10:03 issue that comes from the public on certain uses or
10:10:06 certain items that come forward, occasionally you will
10:10:09 ask us to look at those and do some research.
10:10:12 I believe that's probably what occurred.
10:10:14 I wasn't here, obviously, 12 or 13 years ago, but
10:10:17 that's what occurred, and council directed that change.
10:10:22 That's about it.
10:10:23 I will say, also, in the next cycle, we will be looking
10:10:27 at the special uses that we have.
10:10:32 When you look at the use table, there are potential
10:10:35 conflicts or discrepancies between many of these that
10:10:38 we have.
10:10:39 As you can see with this direction that was done in
10:10:41 '99, we have had many changes like this that have been
10:10:45 kind of ad hoc, use becomes an issue and all of a
10:10:49 sudden becomes a special use.
10:10:50 What we plan to do in the January cycle is to go back
10:10:52 and evaluate all the tables including all the special
10:10:57 uses and make sure that they are trued up, if an
10:11:00 underlying use is allowed, should this still be a
10:11:03 special use or similar use as in other districts.
10:11:06 So we will be bringing that forward in the January
10:11:08 >> So the January cycle, this would include this as
10:11:15 >> I am not saying we are going to change anything with
10:11:19 this in particular unless you direct it.
10:11:20 We are going to be looking at all of the special uses,
10:11:24 and making sure that they are consistent similar use
10:11:27 categories are consistent and how they are applied and
10:11:30 >> I think, though, what caused this was the -- I think
10:11:35 the bank came back to get a window, and they sat
10:11:38 through the process, and I think you raised that.
10:11:41 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: What it was on Fowler Avenue,
10:11:46 Fifth Third Bank wanted to put a window in the back and
10:11:49 it was opposed by SunTrust next door who doesn't have a
10:11:54 And I think that's what brought it up.
10:11:56 And I didn't think it was necessary for them to come
10:11:58 here for -- unless they are there are neighbors in the
10:12:01 back, and there are no neighbors other than the mall.
10:12:05 I want to ask one other question.
10:12:07 I don't know if we have it in this city but I know in
10:12:10 Temple Terrace there's a place where you can go by
10:12:13 alcoholic beverages up to a window.
10:12:15 All right.
10:12:15 Then you have drycleaners where they drop their stuff
10:12:18 off through a window.
10:12:19 So are you going to review all of that?
10:12:22 >> If it's within the CG district it would be one that
10:12:25 would come to you, and the changes are made city-wide.
10:12:29 Not necessarily any review of certain geographical
10:12:32 locations within the city.
10:12:33 It was just this use, this thing within the entire
10:12:37 We could go back and look at certain areas of the city.
10:12:42 Maybe there are large arterial roadways like Fowler
10:12:46 Avenue, that it would seem more reasonable to have
10:12:48 these more intense uses.
10:12:52 I mean, that's something we could look at.
10:12:54 But, yes, if it's in the CG district they come to you
10:12:58 for any type of drive-in window.
10:13:00 >> I know Publix is starting a system where you can fax
10:13:05 in your grocery list or call in, whatever, and it will
10:13:08 probably come to a point where you don't even have to
10:13:10 get out of your car.
10:13:11 They will bring it to your door and you pay and put in
10:13:13 the your car and that's it.
10:13:17 Drive-through window.
10:13:18 I mean, the way things are getting.
10:13:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, that's the way it was when I grew
10:13:23 They would deliver groceries to your house and all that
10:13:26 kind of thing.
10:13:28 How many of you are old enough to remember that?
10:13:31 >> Hmmm, I don't know.
10:13:33 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: The milk man used to come on
10:13:36 Sunday mornings, and he had breakfast with us.
10:13:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, there was the issue,
10:13:41 the fact that I think the particular one on Fowler,
10:13:44 what I think attracted attention was the fact there
10:13:46 were no waivers involved, and that was one of the
10:13:50 issues that council had asked if it could be done
10:13:53 administratively if there was no need for waivers.
10:13:56 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
10:13:57 As I, along with Cathy, have been going through our
10:14:01 code and reevaluating all of our processes, one of the
10:14:04 things that we are spending some time reevaluating is
10:14:06 the special use permit process, what our legal
10:14:10 parameters are and what our practices can be, because I
10:14:13 think as Cathy mentioned, a lot of these have become
10:14:17 sort of ad hoc additions into this process called our
10:14:21 special use process, but they don't necessarily fall
10:14:24 into the category of legally what needs to be in this
10:14:27 So while this is an important question for this
10:14:30 particular drive-through issue, with what Cathy said,
10:14:34 and legally looking at it and reevaluating all of the
10:14:37 processes, this is something we feel from our
10:14:39 perspective that we need to reevaluate in this entire
10:14:43 process, and through that reevaluation it's a good
10:14:46 opportunity for to us reevaluate whether or not certain
10:14:48 types of what we now consider special use that come to
10:14:52 council, the S-2, need to be in front of council, or
10:14:56 whether or not really it should be more only coming to
10:14:58 council if there's a waiver that's necessary.
10:15:01 So we are looking at it both from the procedural and
10:15:05 policy perspective and also from the legal perspective
10:15:08 and it's part of our ongoing move to try to clean up a
10:15:10 lot of our processes.
10:15:12 Thank you.
10:15:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions by council?
10:15:19 So we don't need to take any action on this today.
10:15:21 Is that right?
10:15:23 >> According to the motion he just wanted the
10:15:26 information back.
10:15:26 If you are wanting to direct me specifically on this
10:15:28 particular use since we are looking at all of them, if
10:15:31 you are wanting to direct me to make this an
10:15:33 administrative review as opposed to a public hearing,
10:15:36 or look at the options and compare it to other
10:15:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I would suggest that you take a look at
10:15:42 it, and it will come back, right?
10:15:45 January cycle?
10:15:49 >>CATHERINE COYLE: A motion might be --
10:15:51 >> So moved.
10:15:52 >> Second.
10:15:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
10:15:54 All in favor?
10:16:00 That's our morning items.
10:16:02 Council, I want to get clarification.
10:16:03 At least I want to clarify on the new business that I
10:16:06 brought up about the article in the paper, the site,
10:16:14 went around and viewed it and got some calls from
10:16:16 people this morning that's not clear.
10:16:18 But, anyway, the intent there again is to have the
10:16:21 administration, whether it be code enforcement or law
10:16:25 enforcement, police department, to come before us at
10:16:29 our next meeting, bring a report on how we can address
10:16:34 this issue, what is being done now, do we need to move
10:16:39 an ordinance, create an ordinance to address the issue,
10:16:43 in order that we can protect neighborhood, where these
10:16:48 similar properties are.
10:16:48 So that's the underlying issue here.
10:16:51 I just want to make sure that legal is involved, code
10:16:53 enforcement is involved, administration, and come back
10:16:57 to us, and that we need to create an ordinance for
10:17:00 that, we'll do that.
10:17:01 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Where is that?
10:17:06 >> The Hop's restaurant on Dale Mabry and gray, in the
10:17:10 In fact I went to talk to the people going on top of
10:17:12 the roof and taking air.
10:17:13 Conditioners off, and people sleeping in the place, you
10:17:17 know, all kind of garbage and junk over there in the
10:17:23 parking area.
10:17:24 There's all kinds of stuff going on there.
10:17:27 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I'm glad you brought that up.
10:17:30 I spoke to Chief Castor about something else in the
10:17:34 Heights, but that came up, and we talked about that and
10:17:40 how the people -- they are using it, and it's not the
10:17:44 only one.
10:17:45 So I'm glad you brought that up.
10:17:46 Thank you.
10:17:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So we can get a report from
10:17:50 administration and see where these sites are and see
10:17:53 what we can do to make sure that they are secure.
10:17:57 Anything else need to come before council this morning?
10:18:00 Anything else?
10:18:00 You all did a good job today.
10:18:03 Got off to a rough start with Marty, but --
10:18:08 [ Laughter ]
10:18:09 >> Through all the roughness got it taken care of.
10:18:12 >> We stand in recess till 1:30.
10:18:14 Thank you.
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TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, November 4, 2010
1:30 p.m. Session
13:29:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: City Council will now come to order.
13:32:33 We'll have roll call.
13:32:36 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
13:32:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
13:32:42 >>CURTIS STOKES: Here.
13:32:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
13:32:44 Okay, we are back for our 1:30 items.
13:32:47 I have one memo from Councilwoman Mulhern.
13:32:50 I will be -- I will return late for the afternoon
13:32:56 Did you get a copy, clerk?
13:32:58 >> Yes.
13:33:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
13:33:00 We are back for our 1:30 items.
13:33:03 You're going to be speaking, stand at this time and be
13:33:08 If you're going to be speaking, testifying, stand and
13:33:14 be sworn at this time.
13:33:16 [Oath administered by Clerk]
13:33:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 70, there is, we withdraw that
13:33:30 from the agenda, is that right?
13:33:31 Item 30.
13:33:33 >> That's correct.
13:33:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion?
13:33:34 >> So moved.
13:33:36 >> Second.
13:33:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second that we withdraw items
13:33:40 70 from agenda.
13:33:40 All in favor signify by saying aye.
13:33:42 Opposes in.
13:33:43 >> Item 79 as well.
13:33:45 Mr. Chairman, needs to be reset.
13:33:48 It can't be heard.
13:33:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That will be reset to the 16th?
13:33:54 That motion to reset that to the 16th of December.
13:33:57 >> So moved.
13:33:58 >> 10:30.
13:34:00 Moved by Councilman Stokes, seconded by Councilman
13:34:06 All in favor?
13:34:07 I believe that's the items we need to clean up today.
13:34:11 Miss Abbye?
13:34:13 >> Good afternoon, Abbye Feeley Land Development
13:34:18 Your first item is V-10-316, located 3035 and 3037 West
13:34:24 Kennedy Boulevard.
13:34:25 The request before you is for a 4(COP-R), which is
13:34:29 consumption on premises in association with a
13:34:32 restaurant and reporting.
13:34:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Before you, let's have a motion to open
13:34:37 all the items please.
13:34:40 >> For continuance.
13:34:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
13:34:43 Go ahead.
13:34:43 Thank you.
13:34:47 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Go ahead and familiar rise you with the
13:34:50 This is Miguels on Kennedy Boulevard.
13:34:52 So it's at the northeast corner of Kennedy and MacDill.
13:34:56 The request before you is for an expansion of the
13:35:02 existing alcohol that's currently on one side of the
13:35:05 They are going to be moving into what was formerly a
13:35:08 doctor's office from the west side.
13:35:09 And then they are requesting that the whole parking lot
13:35:12 shown to you there in the red stripes, is also being
13:35:18 Few more pictures.
13:35:21 This is looking north.
13:35:35 This is the entrance on Kennedy.
13:35:36 From the east.
13:35:41 Standing in the back of that parking area, we're
13:35:48 talking about looking south toward Kennedy.
13:35:49 Again, looking south, other side of that parking area.
13:35:58 And then behind the medical portion, what currently was
13:36:03 the medical portion of the building.
13:36:04 This was previously given special use permit for
13:36:17 alcoholic beverage sales under V 0871 there were three
13:36:22 waivers at that time.
13:36:22 There are four waivers before you today.
13:36:26 And that is two for distance separation from a thousand
13:36:29 feet to 465 for other establishments selling alcoholic
13:36:34 beverages and from a thousand feet to 443 feet for
13:36:37 residential uses.
13:36:38 There is also one for maneuvering within the
13:36:41 right-of-way for solid waste.
13:36:43 And the last is a parking waiver.
13:36:47 Parking waiver reads from 58 spaces to 37 spaces.
13:36:51 Including one ADA.
13:36:55 So that was 38.
13:36:56 Just before the hearing Melanie Callaway discovered
13:36:59 they actually need two ADA spaces so we need to drop
13:37:03 the waiver down one additional space to be 36.
13:37:05 In order to accommodate that second ADA space going in
13:37:08 to the parking area.
13:37:09 The request before you, the -- the prior alcoholic
13:37:16 beverage permit was issued for 4,009 square feet.
13:37:20 That included the restaurant and that patio area that's
13:37:22 in the front there.
13:37:23 The request before you today is for 18,845 square feet.
13:37:28 And that includes 4,673 of indoor area and 14,172 of
13:37:35 outdoor area, including that parking lot, which
13:37:38 contains 11,442 square feet.
13:37:41 If you can refer to page two of your staff report, that
13:37:47 parking area is being talked about is being used for
13:37:50 temporary, for special events.
13:37:52 And there was a note placed on the plans that said that
13:37:56 it wouldn't be more than three special events in a
13:37:59 And then secondly, they wouldn't extend for more than a
13:38:01 period of 48 hours.
13:38:03 Staff had some concerned.
13:38:07 We talked to Mr. Michelini about our concerns relating
13:38:11 to alcoholic beverage sales in that parking lot.
13:38:14 It is a large area.
13:38:15 It is not typical to wet a parking area.
13:38:18 We had concerns about what would happen -- where do the
13:38:22 people park if a special event is going to occur there?
13:38:26 When you take that parking area and you put an
13:38:29 occupancy rate of three square feet per person per the
13:38:33 life safety code, that area could actually accommodate
13:38:38 3,813 people.
13:38:38 Which would require 935 parking spaces.
13:38:42 If you're using all the parking spaces you currently
13:38:45 have for the restaurant, which is already short, plus
13:38:48 allow for activities to occur in that area, there could
13:38:52 be adverse impact to the surrounding businesses as well
13:38:55 as the surrounding neighborhood related to the
13:38:58 potential of using that space.
13:38:59 Right now you can come in and get a temporary alcoholic
13:39:03 beverage permit for that area.
13:39:05 If you're associated with a non-profit organization.
13:39:07 If this were to become wet, this parking area, that
13:39:12 would be allowed to occur for profit purposes for the
13:39:16 And as I said, they are seeking to limit it to three
13:39:21 events per year.
13:39:22 There was no identification as to what those events
13:39:25 Is it Cinco de Mayo?
13:39:29 St. Patrick's day?
13:39:30 It would be three events.
13:39:31 On page one -- page two of the staff report, you'll see
13:39:35 if it is Council's pleasure to approve that this day,
13:39:39 staff would recommend this note be added, that each
13:39:42 special event not to exceed two days maximum with
13:39:45 ourself of 10:00 a.m. to midnight.
13:39:47 Prior to the signoffs by land development for the
13:39:50 extension of premises, which is the term for holiday,
13:39:53 go to is the state and get that license extended into
13:39:56 that area.
13:39:57 The owner is to provide a parking agreement for the
13:39:59 event to be reviewed and approved by land development
13:40:03 in coordination with the transportation division.
13:40:05 In addition to that, we had some other minor
13:40:09 modifications related to the parking waiver.
13:40:14 It's 34% per restaurant.
13:40:17 That is extensive.
13:40:18 There is a objection, finding of inconsistency from
13:40:23 transportation related to that and Melanie Calloway is
13:40:26 here to speak to that.
13:40:27 In addition to that, there were some technical
13:40:29 modifications that would need to be connected should it
13:40:33 be Council's pleasure to move forward with this
13:40:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me understand that they're wanting
13:40:38 to wet zone the parking area?
13:40:40 >> Yes, sir.
13:40:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Why wouldn't you just come in and get a
13:40:43 special event to do the three events a year?
13:40:45 Can't you do that?
13:40:46 >> For the special event it has to be associated with a
13:40:48 non-profit organization.
13:40:49 And then you cannot profit from that event occurring.
13:40:53 So, this would be the way in order for the business
13:40:57 that actually occupies the restaurant to receive
13:40:59 profits from those events.
13:41:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
13:41:03 Any other questions?
13:41:08 >> Who's going to keep track of how many events?
13:41:11 Who's going to keep track of the three events?
13:41:14 And the 48 hours?
13:41:17 >> It would be Land Development Coordination.
13:41:18 What would happen is, through their state license, they
13:41:22 would have to get an extension of premises approval by
13:41:26 the state, which requires a signoff by the local
13:41:29 So we would have to sign off to say yes, they can go
13:41:33 ahead and extend their premises into that area from
13:41:36 inside the restaurant to outside.
13:41:37 And we would keep track in our system as to how many
13:41:41 times they came in.
13:41:43 But at the same time, we're requesting that when they
13:41:45 are going to do one of these events, they would be
13:41:47 providing us with a parking, some sort of parking plan
13:41:50 for how the parking is going to be accommodated, given
13:41:54 that they will be using their parking area for the
13:41:57 event to occur.
13:41:58 So they would need to make some sort of offsite
13:42:02 arrangements for that parking, which would be more than
13:42:04 their average 38 spaces, because now they're actually
13:42:08 having the inside the restaurant, plus whatever they're
13:42:10 accommodating outside in the parking area.
13:42:14 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Maybe -- I'd like to hear where the 900
13:42:18 parking spaces are.
13:42:20 For that event.
13:42:23 >> I'll let Mr. Michelini speak to that.
13:42:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
13:42:27 Officer Miller?
13:42:32 >> Don Miller, City of Tampa Police Department.
13:42:34 City of Tampa has no objections.
13:42:37 Miguels has been a good business up and running,
13:42:42 logistically, as long as land development and the, I
13:42:45 guess petitioner could work those logistics out, we
13:42:49 won't have any objections.
13:42:50 Thank you.
13:42:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?
13:42:53 >> Good afternoon, Steve Michelini.
13:42:56 This request is not as complicated as it may seem.
13:42:59 Let me explain to you why we're asking for this in this
13:43:04 As opposed to through a typical charity.
13:43:07 As in the normal process, the state has changed some of
13:43:13 its rules and requirements.
13:43:14 And what happens is, if you have a not-for-profit
13:43:17 event, you have to surrender your license and you have
13:43:20 to stop selling any products whatsoever from the
13:43:24 owner's side.
13:43:26 Everything, including the operation of the restaurant
13:43:28 and all the sales that go through that, whether it's
13:43:31 indoors or outdoors, goes through the not for profit.
13:43:34 And it creates an administrative nightmare.
13:43:37 The not-for-profits are not set up to administer a
13:43:41 restaurant in its operations during these events.
13:43:45 Typically what happened in the past was, the charities
13:43:47 were the recipients of donations and they got a take of
13:43:51 the door.
13:43:52 And it's becoming increasingly more difficult to
13:43:57 provide support to charities without wet zoning the
13:44:00 What we had proposed to the city was that we wet zone
13:44:06 the parking lot, allow us to use it three times a year,
13:44:11 and for no more than 48 hours.
13:44:13 There is a process that we still have to go through,
13:44:16 and it's an S-1 process, the city has it in place.
13:44:20 We have already done this.
13:44:21 And they have approved what we had submitted to them
13:44:25 for the exactly the same area that you're showing on
13:44:28 there to be wet zoned.
13:44:29 The application of life safety to an area of this size
13:44:35 for, I don't know, 3,000, 4,000, whatever the number
13:44:38 was, is not practical.
13:44:41 Typically you're talking about an event that hosts
13:44:44 about 200 people.
13:44:45 And then we -- what we were going to do was to give the
13:44:50 city, in advance -- now, they don't have to sign our
13:44:54 We can go to them and they could say, we don't agree.
13:44:57 Your parking plan doesn't meet our standards.
13:44:59 But there is a process.
13:45:00 And we're committing to going through that process.
13:45:02 But what it requires is, the name and location of
13:45:07 adjacent streets.
13:45:09 It has the area, show the area to be wet zoned, the
13:45:12 parking areas and the drive ways.
13:45:14 It shows locations of the sales tent, the stages, the
13:45:18 The fencing surrounding the event, location of garbage
13:45:22 Location of bathroom facilities.
13:45:24 Show any features that are significant to the site.
13:45:26 Now, that's on the city form.
13:45:28 And that's what we would have to comply with in advance
13:45:31 of them signing our application.
13:45:33 And then we would have to take that application to the
13:45:36 state and purchase a temporary wet zoning -- an
13:45:43 extension of premises temporarily for that location.
13:45:45 We also have to have a parking and driveway plan that
13:45:50 shows how people are going to get in and out of the
13:45:53 How the cars be are going to be handled.
13:45:55 We have to submit notarized letters from property
13:45:59 owners allowing us to use their lots for parking.
13:46:03 And each time that would be, that would be different.
13:46:06 But it would always be under the control of the city
13:46:08 and how that's administered.
13:46:10 We couldn't just assume that we could start selling
13:46:13 from the parking lot.
13:46:14 Let's go back toking the site for a second.
13:46:18 This is an existing doctor's office at the corner of
13:46:22 Kennedy and MacDill.
13:46:25 And this is really designed to retrofit and to create a
13:46:32 lot more viable interest and long-term use of a site
13:46:37 that has been underutilized.
13:46:39 That particular site has been a doctor's office and has
13:46:43 been a T-shirt company and it's been a couple other
13:46:47 But what that converting into a restaurant, that is
13:46:49 already viable, and established itself as a viable
13:46:53 entity, creates a longer term in terms of hours of
13:46:57 operation, an entity which draws people into the area.
13:47:01 With respect to the parking, we're on a corridor that
13:47:05 has plenty of bus traffic.
13:47:08 It has lots of other traffic.
13:47:11 And so the waiver of these parking spaces relates to
13:47:16 your ability to either meet the code with the existing
13:47:19 parking lots, which we have maximized the best of our
13:47:23 Or you tearing down residential structures that are in
13:47:27 the rear or the other offices and start making them
13:47:29 parking lots, which don't attract the kind of attention
13:47:33 that you really want them to have.
13:47:34 Here's a picture of the front of the building.
13:47:39 The kind of traffic that you experience on Kennedy
13:47:47 But it's at a key intersection.
13:47:52 The restaurants are encouraged in the Kennedy overlay
13:47:56 You're utilizing existing building.
13:47:59 So, you're taking advantage of the construction and the
13:48:02 location that's already there.
13:48:03 And they're getting ready to spend an extremely large
13:48:07 amount of money to remodel and gentrify this location.
13:48:14 So, one of the concepts that they're working with is to
13:48:21 create an actual open patio inside the building.
13:48:26 So you would be able to dine essentially under the
13:48:30 stars, inside the building.
13:48:31 Not for the entire building, but for a section of it.
13:48:34 I think there are enough safeguards here, where there's
13:48:40 not going to be an event that's going to cause an
13:48:44 adverse impact to any surrounding property owner.
13:48:47 It will in fact help to encourage other restaurants to
13:48:52 think a little bit outside the box with respect to how
13:48:55 do we service people?
13:48:57 And how do we expand without impacting other places?
13:49:00 I think that we have accomplished that through the
13:49:04 remodeling and actually joining of the two buildings.
13:49:07 And like I said, there is a process that we have to go
13:49:10 through for any outdoor expansion.
13:49:14 That can't just happen automatically.
13:49:15 And we put that restrictions on the site plan.
13:49:18 So, we're respectfully requesting your approval.
13:49:24 I'll save any time I have for rebuttal.
13:49:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions by Council?
13:49:30 Miss Feeley, you talked to me, what is the process?
13:49:35 Really, he's saying there's a process already in place
13:49:37 for this kind -- I thought I heard earlier we have
13:49:40 never done this before in terms of wet zoning the
13:49:42 parking area.
13:49:43 I need some clarification, because he said that's a
13:49:46 process, this is nothing new, it's been done before.
13:49:50 Could you speak to us about that?
13:49:52 >>ABBYE FEELEY: The application Mr. Michelini put up
13:49:58 was the S-1 application for a temporary alcohol.
13:50:02 That is when you have a non-profit organization that is
13:50:04 the applicant.
13:50:05 Not when it is a private.
13:50:08 The only thing Mr. Michelini's client would need from
13:50:14 us would be that extension of premises.
13:50:16 It is not -- that S-1 application with the layout and
13:50:18 everything, that's not required any more.
13:50:20 Once this becomes wet under private ownership.
13:50:24 That is when you are doing it as part of a non-profit
13:50:27 And we are checking all of those elements to ensure
13:50:30 that is occurring.
13:50:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So let me be clear.
13:50:33 So we don't have a process then in place for a
13:50:36 for-profit group organization, process in place for a
13:50:41 >> Right.
13:50:42 What happens now is if you are wet inside, and you're
13:50:45 looking to do an extension, you come in under an
13:50:47 extension of premises.
13:50:48 And we review certain information under that extension
13:50:52 of premises.
13:50:53 And we sign off for that, that yes, they have the
13:50:55 appropriate license inside and now they're going to do
13:50:58 And they identify for how long of a period that is
13:51:00 going to be.
13:51:01 But we do not typically check that traffic circulation
13:51:07 or have 11,000 square feet outside that could
13:51:10 potentially be occupied by that event occurring.
13:51:13 I had discussed with Mr. Michelini the potential of
13:51:19 shrinking that area to be just what the adjacent, kind
13:51:22 of that front part of Kennedy, so that it was a little
13:51:25 bit smaller of an area, not as large.
13:51:29 When I did review this with Catherine Coyle, the zoning
13:51:33 administrator, that is how we did look at the life
13:51:35 occupancy for that area, typically how it is done.
13:51:40 That's how we take the floor plan inside and come up
13:51:42 with an occupancy.
13:51:43 So to have that same thing going on outside, that is
13:51:48 how we did that.
13:51:49 So we would need to put in some additional standards of
13:51:52 review, seeing that that application would not be the
13:51:54 applicable application.
13:51:55 Staff does not have any concerns in relation to the
13:52:00 expansion inside, in the building.
13:52:02 And then inhabiting that other portion and extending
13:52:05 the restaurant, etcetera.
13:52:06 It really is that outside area and the adverse impacts
13:52:10 that could be associated to the businesses surrounding
13:52:13 that and the residential to the north of that property.
13:52:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So then, so you have a concern about
13:52:18 Outside expansion.
13:52:19 In terms of the traffic, or the parking, each time
13:52:24 would they have to provide parking -- I mean, is there
13:52:28 a layout?
13:52:29 Is there anything that applicant has they can show us
13:52:32 how they will address the issue of parking?
13:52:36 >> Well, what we were concerned about, the staff had
13:52:39 talked to us about preparing what they were asking for
13:52:41 with the standard parking plan for the entire life of
13:52:45 the alcoholic beverage zoning.
13:52:48 The problem with that is, that the ownerships of
13:52:52 adjacent properties that you're going to utilize may
13:52:55 And so we thought it was more appropriate to bring them
13:52:59 a plan in advance that showed exactly what I just told
13:53:04 you about.
13:53:04 And we put a restriction on our site plan that says
13:53:07 that we have to do that.
13:53:09 I mean, I can read it to you verbatim.
13:53:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No, Mr. Michelini, I was talking about
13:53:15 a sample layout.
13:53:18 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Sure, I have it from the one we just
13:53:20 did this past may.
13:53:21 They just approved this to be done exactly for the same
13:53:25 area that I'm asking for now.
13:53:27 It was for a charity.
13:53:29 But I don't have -- I brought it.
13:53:31 I mean, this was just done this year on the Cinco de
13:53:35 Mayo celebration.
13:53:36 And we're not trying to avoid this process.
13:53:39 What Miss Feeley is telling you, it normally isn't
13:53:42 applied to an owner.
13:53:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's what I'm saying.
13:53:48 >> We are subjecting ourselves to that review.
13:53:50 We are not trying to avoid that review.
13:53:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What I heard staff say, Miss Feeley
13:53:57 said no we only have a process that relates to
13:54:00 We don't have one that relates to a for-profit
13:54:03 That's what I thought I heard clearly.
13:54:05 If you want to correct me on the record, that would be
13:54:07 Second thing is, they're saying they have concern about
13:54:11 wet zoning the whole parking area that, they don't have
13:54:14 a problem with extending from the inside, but going
13:54:17 outside and wet zoning the whole parking area, they
13:54:20 have a concern about that.
13:54:21 So my question was, do you have a layout that would
13:54:24 show us how you address the parking, if you're going to
13:54:28 wet zone outside your parking area, where they going to
13:54:31 Where are the customers going to park?
13:54:33 I'm saying, do you have a layout, an example?
13:54:37 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Yes, sir, I do.
13:54:38 I have it here.
13:54:39 It was done for the Cinco de Mayo, the fifth of may
13:54:42 celebration this year.
13:54:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Same site?
13:54:46 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Yes, sir.
13:54:46 Identical to what I'm just asking you for now.
13:54:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Could you put that site up there so we
13:54:50 can take a look at it?
13:55:02 >> This is Kennedy.
13:55:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Speak into the mic, okay?
13:55:10 >>STEVE MICHELINI: This is the existing Miguels
13:55:13 And then this is the parking lot, exactly as I have
13:55:16 shown you here.
13:55:18 And it shows the tents.
13:55:20 It shows the valet dropoff.
13:55:21 It shows the fence area.
13:55:23 It shows exactly how this was going to happen.
13:55:26 So it's not --
13:55:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: But where's the parking going?
13:55:32 >>STEVE MICHELINI: The parking is through agreements
13:55:34 that I have here that are offsite.
13:55:41 >> Excuse me, but that's not the same as what you're
13:55:43 asking for here.
13:55:44 This one here -- this here goes up to the line of the
13:55:48 This shows all the way to the street of New Jersey.
13:55:51 On here.
13:55:53 It's not the same.
13:55:55 It's showing parking agreement there.
13:56:00 And what you're asking here is there be no parking
13:56:04 where you're showing parking, because that would be wet
13:56:08 >> That's another person's property, where it says
13:56:10 parking area.
13:56:11 Parking agreement.
13:56:12 That's not -- right here is the --
13:56:19 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Where's New Jersey?
13:56:21 >>STEVE MICHELINI: That's another half block down.
13:56:23 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Okay, where's north A?
13:56:26 >>STEVE MICHELINI: It's up here.
13:56:27 Off the site.
13:56:28 There's an alleyway.
13:56:31 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Okay.
13:56:33 >>STEVE MICHELINI: There's an alley.
13:56:35 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Move it back up.
13:56:36 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I'm going to get a bigger plan for
13:56:39 Can you see that a little bit better?
13:56:46 This is Kennedy Boulevard.
13:56:51 And this is the restaurant.
13:56:52 This is also where we were talking about expanding the
13:57:00 The dropoff and the pickup was via the alley here,
13:57:03 north A was up here.
13:57:05 This is a law office here.
13:57:10 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Bring back the other one.
13:57:13 All right.
13:57:16 Now I see New Jersey here.
13:57:18 You're going up.
13:57:19 >>STEVE MICHELINI: That's quite a ways away.
13:57:22 >>YVONNE CAPIN: So your parking agreement was with the
13:57:24 property that is owned by someone else?
13:57:26 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Yes.
13:57:27 You have to provide offsite parking.
13:57:29 I have copies of the four letters that we had for
13:57:34 offsite parking for that special event.
13:57:36 Like I said, there's no difference between -- let me
13:57:47 There's no difference between whether we're doing this
13:57:52 as an owner or whether we're doing it for a not for
13:57:55 profit, if we have to meet the same criteria.
13:57:57 The difference is, who's processing the application?
13:58:01 And if it weren't for the state requirements that we
13:58:04 surrender the license and turned off all the operations
13:58:07 of the restaurant over to a not for profit, we wouldn't
13:58:10 do this.
13:58:10 It used to be a lot simpler.
13:58:12 The state had different rules, where you could, you
13:58:15 know, you had show them your books, you could show them
13:58:18 how much you made and the money went to them.
13:58:20 They changed the rules.
13:58:21 And so, we're not asking for this to be used all the
13:58:26 We're asking it to be used three times a year.
13:58:28 It cannot be signed off on without the staff approving
13:58:32 So whatever event we're planning can't happen if the
13:58:36 staff isn't satisfied.
13:58:37 And we're suggesting that we go through the same
13:58:40 process that you would go through as if you were a
13:58:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Mr. Michelini.
13:58:48 I guess -- Miss Feeley, you can come back.
13:58:54 >> If I may.
13:58:55 There is a difference.
13:58:56 Under the S-1, you are not required to satisfy parking.
13:59:01 Under an A one for temporary alcohol, you are not
13:59:04 It is not a criteria under 27272 of your code to meet
13:59:09 Under an S-2 for permanent alcohol, which is what is
13:59:13 before you today, there is a requirement to meet
13:59:16 And if that requirement is out there, then we need a
13:59:21 waiver for that area or whatever to say it's okay that
13:59:23 you're not going to have parking in this area when
13:59:25 you're having an event there.
13:59:27 But one of the criteria for satisfaction and approval
13:59:29 of a special use before you, is the satisfaction of
13:59:33 required parking.
13:59:34 And that's why this becomes an issue.
13:59:36 It's not that -- it's not required under an S-1 when a
13:59:40 non-profit comes in to hold a two-day event or whatever
13:59:43 it is.
13:59:44 But it is required in the application that's before you
13:59:46 And that's the fundamental difference.
13:59:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
13:59:52 >> If I could have one more second here.
13:59:54 We have that commitment on our site plan.
13:59:56 And it's a temporary event.
13:59:58 It's not a permanent event.
14:00:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Only problem -- let me hear from legal
14:00:02 on this issue, because I hear what you're saying,
14:00:06 Mr. Michelini.
14:00:07 You're saying you agree to do this, do that but I don't
14:00:10 know whether it's enforceable legal.
14:00:12 Let me hear from legal.
14:00:15 >>REBECCA KERT: What Miss Feeley said is absolutely
14:00:17 For the temporary permit, which is what I believe
14:00:20 Mr. Michelini was showing you before, some designs he
14:00:22 had proposed for parking.
14:00:24 Staff doesn't review for parking.
14:00:25 So what he showed did not necessarily meet the code
14:00:31 What Mr -- Miss Feeley also said is for the permanent
14:00:35 alcohol beverage special use permit, which is what
14:00:37 they're asking for, even if they're asking for
14:00:39 limitations on that permanent alcohol beverage special
14:00:43 use permit, they're still required to show compliance
14:00:45 with parking.
14:00:46 What I believe the staff report had proposed a
14:00:51 condition, stating that before land development would
14:00:55 sign off on approval for the state expansion, because
14:00:59 they'll already have it if you grant it from the city.
14:01:03 But before they sign off on the state, they want it to
14:01:05 be a condition that they are not allowed to expand into
14:01:08 that area until they demonstrate compliance with
14:01:11 And I think that that would be acceptable.
14:01:14 My big concern that's still out there is I hear what
14:01:19 Mr. Michelini is saying, meeting parking and
14:01:21 demonstrating compliance with parking is not
14:01:24 necessarily what Miss Feeley is considering compliance
14:01:27 with parking.
14:01:27 And there needs to be some clarification.
14:01:29 I believe that staff is saying if they're going to
14:01:32 expand into that area, they need to meet your parking
14:01:35 In fact, that's what they have to do under an S-2.
14:01:39 I'm not sure that that's exactly everyone speaking on
14:01:41 the same page.
14:01:42 But just to wrap it up, for an S-2.
14:01:46 They do need to demonstrate come plains with parking or
14:01:49 get a waiver for it.
14:01:50 And they're only asking for a limited waiver.
14:01:53 They're not asking for a waiver for the entire space
14:01:56 for this temporary event.
14:01:57 So for their temporary event, they're going to having
14:02:00 to demonstrate compliance up to code standards for
14:02:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:02:04 All right.
14:02:05 Let's take public testimony at this point.
14:02:07 Unless Council has any additional questions.
14:02:09 Okay, anyone from the public wish to address Council on
14:02:12 this petition?
14:02:13 Anyone from the public wish to come forward and address
14:02:16 Council on this petition?
14:02:31 >> Move to close.
14:02:32 >> Second.
14:02:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
14:02:35 All in favor signify by saying aye.
14:02:39 I just have some concerns.
14:02:48 I just have some real concerns.
14:02:50 I'm just telling you.
14:02:51 That's just me.
14:02:55 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I also, wet zoning of parking, open
14:02:59 parking lot is just -- when there's 18,000 square feet
14:03:04 inside is difficult.
14:03:06 It's very difficult for me.
14:03:08 I'll tell you that.
14:03:10 >> It's not 18,000 inside.
14:03:12 That's the inside and the outside.
14:03:19 >>YVONNE CAPIN: How much -- whatever it is.
14:03:25 >> If there is some conditions, you'd like, we could
14:03:29 certainly put them there.
14:03:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Michelini, if you don't mind, let
14:03:33 me run the meeting.
14:03:35 Thank you.
14:03:35 My concern is, what staff is saying is that there are
14:03:40 two different applications.
14:03:42 And that they have to demonstrate I guess before it
14:03:45 moves forward, but still, we're talking about, this is
14:03:48 not a temporary application.
14:03:50 It's a permanent application, even the though they are
14:03:52 agreeing to limit it to three, I guess events.
14:03:57 My question is, what's going to prevent them from doing
14:04:00 more than three events?
14:04:02 Or going beyond?
14:04:04 And it being enforceable?
14:04:07 >> Mr. Chairman, that is a question that Council needs
14:04:11 to address and always addresses with regard to anyone
14:04:14 of the conditions it ever places on any of its special
14:04:16 use applications.
14:04:17 The issue comes down to enforceability.
14:04:20 And the resources, whether the city will do it.
14:04:26 In this case, I believe if I understand it correctly,
14:04:30 there is no legal obligation in the code for the
14:04:36 process that Mr. Michelini is proposing.
14:04:39 It is only for not for profits.
14:04:41 And he is proposing to create a mechanism by which this
14:04:45 can be applied to a for-profit entity.
14:04:49 Which the staff has told you has not happened up until
14:04:52 this point.
14:04:52 So your question is a good one and it's a question that
14:04:56 City Council must wrestle with, with every wet zoning
14:05:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a way to, if we're going to do
14:05:03 this, is there a way to limit this to maybe one year to
14:05:06 see how it works and then have to come back?
14:05:10 >> To make this a one-year.
14:05:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Conditional?
14:05:14 >> Well, actually the code really does not provide for
14:05:19 >> I think perhaps we should separate the two issues.
14:05:24 >> Mr. Shelby, the public hearing is closed.
14:05:27 We need to open it back up.
14:05:28 >> I'm sorry.
14:05:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
14:05:31 All in favor signify by saying aye.
14:05:34 >> Obviously --
14:05:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: At this point, Mr. Michelini, let me
14:05:38 hear from staff.
14:05:38 This is issue related to what we need to deal with from
14:05:42 the city perspective at this point.
14:05:46 >> Miss Feeley, again, this area when they use it, then
14:05:54 they have to comply with the parking spaces necessary
14:05:57 for this area, to be used.
14:06:01 A parking lot, on those special events.
14:06:05 And -- tell me again.
14:06:08 >>ABBYE FEELEY: That is what staff is desiring, yes.
14:06:10 But I think that we need to, and per direction of
14:06:13 Miss Kert, we need to determine number one, what ratio
14:06:17 we are going to be using, if that is what we're going
14:06:20 to be requiring.
14:06:21 And how we are going to make sure that it is in
14:06:25 Because when they come in to us for that signoff, we
14:06:29 can say no it's not in compliance and they can say yes
14:06:32 it is, because there is no stand of review.
14:06:34 So I think through this discussion, we need to further
14:06:36 identify what that would be.
14:06:37 Is it a seven scare foot per person?
14:06:41 15 square feet per person?
14:06:43 Then, you know, how many spaces would that equate to?
14:06:47 The other thing is, somebody said well let's just limit
14:06:50 it to 200 guests per event.
14:06:52 Well, who's going to stand there with the ticker and
14:06:55 count how many people are coming in and then tell them
14:06:57 when they reach 200, that's it?
14:06:59 Then is it a fire marshal, fire safety issue because of
14:07:03 So we need -- that would need to be worked out further.
14:07:07 I think for a level of comfort, for enforcement, from
14:07:13 staff side of that situation.
14:07:20 >> That was my very first question, was who is going
14:07:23 to, and how?
14:07:27 >> The only way -- their state license will require
14:07:30 they get an extension, what they call an extension of
14:07:33 premise, which requires local government signoff.
14:07:36 So every time they will come to us for that extension
14:07:38 of premise, we're going to say okay, that was one time.
14:07:41 Okay, we are not signing off on any more because you've
14:07:44 already reached three extension of premise for this
14:07:47 So, as far as that is concerned -- then the other side
14:07:53 of that always says go back to enforcement.
14:07:56 If they're holding a special event and we haven't
14:07:59 signed off on it, then their in violation of their
14:08:01 state license.
14:08:02 So that becomes a whole other issue.
14:08:05 >>YVONNE CAPIN: They can do three consecutive uses?
14:08:08 Where it would be six days?
14:08:11 There's no time limit in between?
14:08:13 It can be done --
14:08:15 >> That's correct.
14:08:15 The way the note is currently written, three events, no
14:08:18 more than 48 hours apiece.
14:08:20 So could they do straight days straight, yes, they
14:08:23 From 10:00 a.m. to midnight each day.
14:08:28 >> When you start out to say, the parking was not
14:08:30 required for a special event like a regular 2(COP-R).
14:08:37 You say they didn't have to have a number of parking
14:08:40 Now you're saying they have to have the parking.
14:08:42 >> When a non-profit comes in under a temporary
14:08:45 application, when a non-profit comes in and applies for
14:08:49 a temporary alcohol, one of the criteria for the
14:08:52 issuance of that temporary, which is done
14:08:54 administratively through our offices is not parking.
14:09:01 >>GWEN MILLER: But that's what Miss Capin was saying.
14:09:04 >> Once we wet this under a permanent umbrella, it no
14:09:07 longer requires under that S-1 any more.
14:09:09 That goes away.
14:09:11 >>GWEN MILLER: So she should stop asking about how many
14:09:14 parking spaces.
14:09:15 Because she keeps saying how many parking space do you
14:09:17 have on the day of the event.
14:09:19 >>YVONNE CAPIN: She said nine hundred and something.
14:09:21 I heard nine hundred somewhere.
14:09:23 S that's why I keep asking.
14:09:26 >> Under the life occupancy code, which is what we use
14:09:28 for restaurants in determining occupancy.
14:09:30 And then we take that total occupancy and multiply by
14:09:33 point 25 to get the required parking.
14:09:35 So it's a quarter.
14:09:36 That area there could accommodate at a three square
14:09:42 foot per person ratio, 3,813 people.
14:09:46 Times the point 25, to get the parking, would put them
14:09:50 at 953 required spaces.
14:09:54 If this was just an outside area, they came to you,
14:09:57 they wanted to be wet all the time, have outdoor bar
14:10:00 all the time, that's what they would be required.
14:10:03 >> And would this pertain to their special event times?
14:10:08 >> Yes.
14:10:09 >>YVONNE CAPIN: It would pertain.
14:10:10 When they came, they would be required to tell us where
14:10:14 they're parking nine hundred and something cars?
14:10:17 >> If I could answer that.
14:10:21 >>YVONNE CAPIN: No.
14:10:22 >> That is I think what is unclear as today about how
14:10:26 Mr. Michelini wants to apply that.
14:10:28 Staff interception of this outdoor area at a three
14:10:33 square foot per person would equal that if you're
14:10:36 saying he's going to comply and I think that's the last
14:10:38 unknown on this application is, what is the per person
14:10:42 ratio we're going to use?
14:10:44 And that being said, how many spaces would he be
14:10:47 required to show each time he came in for an event?
14:10:50 And I think if that is the direction Council wants to
14:10:53 go, we should figure that out and have that on the
14:10:55 plans so that when he does come in, we know whether or
14:10:58 not he is complying.
14:10:59 And also, from the enforcement side, whether or not
14:11:02 there's a potential for revocation based on that.
14:11:05 Mr. Scott in relation to your one year conditional
14:11:09 question, I just wanted to get back to that real quick.
14:11:12 That would be if it was a one year conditional, it
14:11:14 would be for the entire property.
14:11:15 We couldn't kind of break out the parking lot and break
14:11:18 out the restaurant separate.
14:11:19 Those things would need to travel together under one
14:11:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council Stokes, then Caetano.
14:11:28 >>CURTIS STOKES: Are we creating a new law with this?
14:11:35 >>REBECCA KERT: You are in fact creating something that
14:11:39 the city hasn't done before.
14:11:40 Otherwise we would have a process and be able to
14:11:43 explain to you exactly what that is.
14:11:44 You do add conditions and limitations to some of your
14:11:52 special use permits.
14:11:53 And you know, in essence, that's what they're doing.
14:11:56 It's just this one comes with the addition of, you're
14:12:01 moving -- you're required to have parking.
14:12:03 And then they want to expand where people can drink
14:12:06 into their parking.
14:12:07 Therefore, removing the parking.
14:12:10 That is where everyone is struggling with.
14:12:16 >>CURTIS STOKES: What Mr. Michelini is proposing is
14:12:18 that we wet zone the parking lot and waive parking
14:12:23 Three times a year?
14:12:25 >>REBECCA KERT: No.
14:12:25 No, he is not.
14:12:27 >>CURTIS STOKES: Much more complex.
14:12:30 >>REBECCA KERT: As is proposed, and I'll let him speak
14:12:32 for himself.
14:12:33 But what was proposed as conditions to be placed on the
14:12:35 site plan is that the three times a year, that the
14:12:41 property owner demonstrates compliance with your
14:12:45 parking code.
14:12:46 Which in theory is fine.
14:12:48 But what I hear is a very divergent opinion about what
14:12:53 is compliance -- compliant with the parking code.
14:12:57 And under an S-2, as you said, if had Michelini was
14:13:01 coming in asking for a waiver from the highest and best
14:13:04 intensity that this could do, a parking waiver, for 956
14:13:09 spaces, it would be within your purview to grant that
14:13:11 he's not asking for that.
14:13:12 But staff is telling you that is what they are
14:13:16 expecting him to demonstrate when he comes in three
14:13:18 times a year.
14:13:19 >>CURTIS STOKES: Thanks.
14:13:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano?
14:13:23 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Michelini, you said we
14:13:25 approved something like this in the past?
14:13:27 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Administratively.
14:13:29 It's been approved for the expansion of premises for
14:13:32 not for profits.
14:13:36 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: And using the parking lot?
14:13:38 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Using the parking lot.
14:13:39 But here is the difficulty that we're all kind of
14:13:42 struggling with.
14:13:43 And I have talked to staff about how to accommodate
14:13:48 So, what we were trying to do was to comply with the
14:13:51 same restrictions that would apply to a charity
14:13:55 Not, we're not asking to be forgiven from that we want
14:14:00 to prove that we have the parking that is available,
14:14:03 the Port-o-lets and all those things.
14:14:06 Then we put a condition on the site plan that says
14:14:10 It says if the city is not happy with our plan, then
14:14:13 you don't sign it and we don't get an expansion of the
14:14:16 And to go back to Mr. Shelby's comment about it being
14:14:22 wet zoned and you could serve out there and there's no
14:14:24 restriction, you have to have a signoff to go to the
14:14:27 state to expand your premises beyond your building
14:14:32 You have to have that signoff.
14:14:35 And if the city doesn't give us that signoff, you don't
14:14:37 have the event.
14:14:38 And so, what I was trying to do was to create a process
14:14:43 that said okay, we're going to go through the same
14:14:47 We're going to comply with everything the city normally
14:14:50 requires for an expansion of premises.
14:14:52 We're just going to do it as an owner instead of as a
14:14:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We need to move because we have been on
14:14:58 this for a while.
14:14:59 Let me ask legal one question.
14:15:01 Thank you, Mr. Michelini.
14:15:02 Let me ask legal, because what we're doing now in
14:15:05 essence is creating something that's outside of your
14:15:08 current ordinance, right?
14:15:10 >> That is correct.
14:15:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Number two is, can this applicant go to
14:15:14 the state and ask for this?
14:15:19 >> Can they go to the state and ask for an expansion of
14:15:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Without having us to do this today?
14:15:26 That we don't have an ordinance?
14:15:27 >> The state will not approve it if the city doesn't
14:15:30 say that they have the underlying land use.
14:15:32 The appropriate special use permit.
14:15:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's all the questions I have.
14:15:37 What's the pleasure of Council?
14:15:40 >> Move to close the public hearing.
14:15:41 >> Second.
14:15:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
14:15:42 All in favor signify by saying aye.
14:15:44 What's the pleasure of Council?
14:15:46 >> An ordinance repealing number 2008 approving a
14:15:50 special use permit S two for alcohol venue saying,
14:15:54 making lawful the sale of alcohol, beer, wine and
14:15:59 liquor, both (COP-R) for consumption on premises only
14:16:02 in connection with the restaurant business and
14:16:03 establishment at or from that certain lot, plot or
14:16:06 tract of land located at 3035, 3037 West Kennedy
14:16:10 Boulevard, Tampa, Florida, as more particularly
14:16:14 described in section 3 they're off, providing for
14:16:17 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
14:16:18 effective date.
14:16:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Does that include all of Miss Feeley
14:16:23 added and all the conditions and all that other stuff
14:16:26 that she requested?
14:16:27 All that's part of the motion?
14:16:30 >> Yes.
14:16:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?
14:16:31 >> Second.
14:16:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I'm not going to support the
14:16:34 I'm not going to support the motion based on the fact
14:16:36 we don't have an ordinance in place to govern this.
14:16:39 This is something that's being created new.
14:16:42 Something like a hybrid I guess it is.
14:16:45 Something of that nature.
14:16:46 So I don't feel comfortable at this particular point
14:16:49 with that.
14:16:49 Unless we have something more, more, better process in
14:16:53 place that can address this.
14:16:54 So my standpoint, I can't support it.
14:16:59 >> I agree with chairman Scott.
14:17:01 We don't have an ordinance that governs how we do this.
14:17:04 And again, going outside of our current purview of how
14:17:07 we do these things.
14:17:08 Is against the nature of why we're here.
14:17:10 What I'd like to see is, if legal and Miss Kert and
14:17:15 Miss Feeley and Mr. Michelini can work this out prior
14:17:18 to when we come before, before we do this.
14:17:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: A motion and second --
14:17:24 >> Mr. Chairman, on that point that we don't have an
14:17:27 How could we accept something to come before us if we
14:17:29 don't have an ordinance?
14:17:32 Legal should have notified us of this fact.
14:17:35 I mean, we spent 45 minutes on this thing.
14:17:39 And it is legal to some point.
14:17:41 And it's not legal in another point.
14:17:43 We should have an ordinance pertaining to this.
14:17:45 Can we lay this on the table maybe before the second
14:17:49 When would the second reading be on this?
14:17:51 >> It would be November the 18th.
14:17:55 >> I think we need a little more time.
14:17:57 November 18th.
14:17:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, that's a motion on the floor at
14:18:00 this particular point.
14:18:01 >> I'll make that amendment to the motion.
14:18:02 >> Motion to vacate the motion to continue to
14:18:06 November 1st?
14:18:08 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I make a motion to -- I think we
14:18:10 need more time -- the 18th.
14:18:13 Today is the 4th.
14:18:14 No, the 3rd.
14:18:16 >> Is the purpose of the motion to put.
14:18:19 >> Put something in place.
14:18:20 Maybe they can put something together.
14:18:22 >> Mr. Chairman, I don't want to cause problems with
14:18:25 the Council.
14:18:25 If it is causing that much trouble, we'll delete the
14:18:28 parking lot area or meet with staff and come back.
14:18:31 I'd rather move forward with an approval of something
14:18:34 than deny, you know, this project, because they are
14:18:38 already in the process of renovating the building.
14:18:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me hear from our attorney on this
14:18:43 issue because there's a motion on the floor.
14:18:45 I guess we can always withdraw the motion.
14:18:52 But the problem is he's saying going back and meet with
14:18:54 legal to work out something.
14:18:56 And I'm still concerned, I don't want the petitioner 0
14:18:59 to come back with hopes of this being passed without --
14:19:01 my issue is that there's no ordinance in place.
14:19:04 Legally or there's no law, no ordinance in place to
14:19:06 help us address this particular issue is what I'm
14:19:09 hearing from counsel and it's setting a precedent.
14:19:13 So that is my concern relative to this.
14:19:15 So I don't want -- and I'd love for you all to do this
14:19:19 and make money.
14:19:19 But I just want to protect the city, because I don't
14:19:22 know what's going to happen.
14:19:23 Somebody get sued.
14:19:25 They said well, we did it.
14:19:27 I'm just telling you, not just for me.
14:19:30 I can only vote for me and speak for me.
14:19:32 I can't speak for nobody else.
14:19:34 >> Let me ask if the petitioner is, if this, if the
14:19:39 motioning is made to continue this, can this be
14:19:43 To address your concerns to redact what needs to be
14:19:45 redacted the next two weeks?
14:19:47 For the next regular meeting?
14:19:49 >> From our side, I think it can.
14:19:51 It's a policy issue on the administrative side, for the
14:19:54 But we certainly don't want to kill a viable project
14:19:59 because the parking lot ordinance issue is not
14:20:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I don't think we're killing it.
14:20:06 I don't want to use those words.
14:20:07 First of all, you got to understand, it's not existing
14:20:10 other than on the not for profit ordinance.
14:20:13 >> I understand.
14:20:13 I'm just saying the expansion, it would cause a severe
14:20:17 hardship for that owner, for the expansion of his
14:20:22 The parking lot area was an additional request that he
14:20:25 doesn't have to have to operate.
14:20:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:20:30 >> But the buildings he has to have.
14:20:35 >> Mr. Michelini, I just heard you a little bit
14:20:38 earlier, that he -- he, you, as his representative,
14:20:44 would be willing to withdraw the parking lot so that
14:20:46 this process can continue for his restaurant, for the
14:20:53 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Yes.
14:20:54 I mean, I certainly didn't want to put the Council in a
14:20:57 compromising position.
14:20:58 And obviously, it's causing a lot more discussion than
14:21:01 I had hoped.
14:21:04 But we can certainly remove the parking lot.
14:21:06 We can stay with the existing for profit or not for
14:21:09 profit process.
14:21:11 And take the parking lot wet zone area out.
14:21:14 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Because our attention is definitely not
14:21:16 to harm this businessman whose been in business for a
14:21:20 long time.
14:21:21 And bring the process forward.
14:21:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's bring this to landing, okay?
14:21:31 I need to hear from legal.
14:21:32 What is the direction now we need -- so we can move on?
14:21:37 >> The first reading I believe would need to be
14:21:40 So the legal description would need to be changed.
14:21:47 >> If not for profits have special events and need
14:21:50 alcohol, how do they go parking?
14:21:53 >>REBECCA KERT: They're not require -- not for profits
14:21:56 are not required.
14:21:57 >> This is not for profit organization that's going to
14:21:59 do it three times a year.
14:22:00 It's not for profit.
14:22:01 That's we said?
14:22:03 >>REBECCA KERT: No, it is -- they may or may not give
14:22:07 money to not for profits.
14:22:08 We have no control over that.
14:22:09 But it is not a not for profit that's applying for this
14:22:15 >> I guess the question for the petitioner is how soon
14:22:18 can you get the legal description in to the land
14:22:20 development and have it brought back?
14:22:22 >> I think two week continuance would be fine.
14:22:27 >> The 18th.
14:22:32 >>ABBYE FEELEY: I just want to clarify for the record,
14:22:34 we need those materials into land development one week
14:22:37 prior, which would be November 11, which is a holiday
14:22:40 for the City of Tampa.
14:22:41 So November 10th in order to allow our right-of-way
14:22:43 division to check the legal description, certify it and
14:22:46 make sure.
14:22:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You understand that Mr. Michelini?
14:22:49 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Yes, sir.
14:22:50 >> I withdraw my motion.
14:22:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Need a motion to continue to the 18th.
14:22:57 >> Moved and second.
14:22:59 To be continued to the 18th of November.
14:23:00 All in favor -- yes, sir?
14:23:03 >> Just for the time, if we do that at 10:30 a.m.
14:23:05 please in the morning?
14:23:08 10:30 a.m.?
14:23:09 >> Yes, sir.
14:23:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's fine.
14:23:12 >> Thank you.
14:23:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
14:23:14 All in favor signify by saying aye.
14:23:17 >> As the Chairman said, we have landed.
14:23:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I thought we would have been through by
14:23:26 Item 72.
14:23:28 Item 72.
14:23:31 >> Move to open the public hearing.
14:23:34 >> Moved and second.
14:23:35 All in favor signify by saying aye.
14:23:42 >> I have been sworn in.
14:23:44 Petition case V 10333, address 3863 south Dale Mabry
14:23:53 Highway, applying for 2(APS), consumption off premises
14:23:59 Show you some photos.
14:24:02 General location on south Dale Mabry Highway.
14:24:05 Right here.
14:24:07 Here's the location of the building.
14:24:10 The building has been changed.
14:24:13 This building from across the street location.
14:24:15 Being constructed, almost finished right now.
14:24:19 Looking northeast.
14:24:35 And towards the west.
14:24:37 East across the street is Britain plaza.
14:24:43 We found the site consistent.
14:24:48 No changes required.
14:24:49 Waivers for separation from 1,175 feet for residential
14:24:53 Waivers for separation for establishments selling
14:24:58 alcohol, 1,000 feet to 60 feet.
14:25:01 Total square feet, 11,626 feet.
14:25:04 54 parking spaces required.
14:25:07 -- 74 parking spaces required.
14:25:10 180 spaces required, which six are ADA compliance.
14:25:13 Hours of operation, 24 hours, seven days a week.
14:25:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
14:25:17 Officer Miller?
14:25:21 Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa Police Department has
14:25:24 no objection, special use two permit.
14:25:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, petitioner?
14:25:29 >> Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, members of Council.
14:25:32 My name is Mark Bentley, 201 North Franklin Street,
14:25:36 I represent the applicant Sembler STS partnership.
14:25:41 There are no objection.
14:25:43 Also from the home owners association.
14:25:45 So we would respectfully request.
14:25:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here in opposition to this
14:25:50 Anyone here in opposition?
14:25:52 >> I move to close.
14:25:54 >> All in favor signify by saying aye.
14:25:58 Councilwoman -- Councilman Caetano you want to read
14:26:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'm still holding you for the earlier
14:26:11 statement you made this morning about that truck.
14:26:12 [ Laughter ]
14:26:13 Go ahead.
14:26:23 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Ordinance approving a special use
14:26:25 permit S-2 for alcohol beverage sales.
14:26:28 Small venue making lawful the sale of beverages
14:26:32 containing alcohol of more than one percent by weight
14:26:34 and not more than 14% by weight and wines regardless of
14:26:38 alcohol content, beer and wine, 2(APS) in sealed
14:26:43 containers for consumption off premises only at or from
14:26:45 that certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 3863
14:26:51 south Dale Mabry Highway, Tampa, Florida.
14:26:54 As more particularly described in section two here off,
14:26:58 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict
14:27:02 providing an effective date.
14:27:03 >> Moved and second.
14:27:04 Second by Councilman Stokes.
14:27:05 All in favor signify by saying aye.
14:27:09 >> Motion carried with Mulhern and Miranda being
14:27:13 Second reading of the ordinance will be held November
14:27:16 the 18th at 9:30 a.m.
14:27:18 >> Thank you very much.
14:27:19 Have a good day.
14:27:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
14:27:21 Item 73.
14:27:22 Item 73.
14:27:30 >> Petition case V 10-369, address 3924 west Spruce
14:27:36 Applying for 2(COP) beer and wine consumption on and
14:27:40 off premises for small venue.
14:27:42 You're going to find some corrections that need to be
14:27:46 Number one, the zoning should be CI rather than the 24
14:27:51 Also there's some conditions that needed to be added.
14:27:53 Number one is the alcohol is incidental to the
14:27:59 Operations of, Sunday from Thursday, closes at p.m. and
14:28:03 Friday and Saturday, close at 11:00 p.m.
14:28:05 And on page five, there's a list of parking waiver that
14:28:09 is not required for this particular address.
14:28:12 Show you some photographs.
14:28:16 This is the location of the microbrewery, right here.
14:28:27 Spruce Street.
14:28:29 Dale Mabry is just to the east.
14:28:31 Right here.
14:28:32 This is the Home Depot.
14:28:33 There's a front location of the building.
14:28:39 There's the side location.
14:28:43 Across the street to the east, across the street to the
14:28:52 Shows some residential.
14:28:54 We found the site to be consistent.
14:28:59 Waivers for separation for 1,000 feet to 97 feet for
14:29:02 residential uses.
14:29:04 Waivers for separation from 1,820 feet for
14:29:07 establishment selling alcohol.
14:29:10 For separation 1,000 feet to 139 feet for institutional
14:29:14 Total square foot is 7,781 square feet.
14:29:18 66 parking spaces are required.
14:29:21 66 spaces are provided, of which three are ADA
14:29:26 Hours of operation Sunday through Thursday, close
14:29:28 at p.m., Saturday and Sunday, close at 11:00 p.m.
14:29:32 This request is for a permanent beverage permit to
14:29:34 replace the current one year conditional, which this
14:29:36 Council previously approved with conditions on the
14:29:40 Sale hours from 6:00 p.m. to 6:00 -- to 10:00 p.m.
14:29:44 Only Monday through Friday in conjunction to an event
14:29:46 from alcohol beverage sales off premises.
14:29:49 Sales were limited to beer and wine brewed on-site.
14:29:52 Monday through Friday and limited to four nights per
14:29:55 month, one night a week and all premises consumption
14:29:59 hours between 9:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m.
14:30:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Could you state your name for the
14:30:06 record, sir?
14:30:10 >> Joel Sousa, land development.
14:30:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Joe is new to this.
14:30:19 Thank you very much.
14:30:20 >> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa Police Department.
14:30:22 City of Tampa Police Department has no objection to
14:30:24 this special use two permit.
14:30:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Applicant?
14:30:37 >> Joe Redner, 3924 west Spruce Street.
14:30:42 For city brewing.
14:31:13 >> Mr. Redner, for our attorney?
14:31:47 >> I spoke to the -- good morning, Council -- good
14:31:51 afternoon, Council first.
14:31:53 Spoke to the, says RM-24 residential multifamily.
14:31:57 Actually it's CI commercial intensive.
14:32:00 And we came here two years ago and asked for and got a
14:32:08 very limited amount of time for a 2(COP) with a lot of
14:32:14 conditions on it.
14:32:15 And we operated that year with those conditions without
14:32:20 any incidents whatsoever.
14:32:22 Then we came back and we got our hours extended.
14:32:28 And we operated that year without any incidences
14:32:36 No incidences.
14:32:37 And what we would like to do now is get a full 2(COP).
14:32:42 For that location.
14:32:44 Then the police intelligence -- police department
14:32:59 criminal intelligence report, on the second page, he
14:33:08 states that on-site inspection of illicit property was
14:33:12 made by this officer.
14:33:14 There is no reason to deny this request.
14:33:15 He wrote police calls for service the last year, he
14:33:18 found no calls related to complaints from the
14:33:21 And there are no reports of any alcohol violations.
14:33:25 We haven't had an incident in two years.
14:33:28 If the neighborhood came to us with a problem, believe
14:33:30 me we would fix it immediately.
14:33:32 That's something we do not want is problems with the
14:33:35 That hasn't happened in the two years.
14:33:39 In the book that we provided you for you, you'll find
14:33:48 it's separated by tabs, and we have tab A.
14:33:52 And tab A, the first one is to show MSNBC has found
14:33:59 that, they bring out the top ten startup companies in
14:34:03 the country for the year.
14:34:06 And we are number one in that category.
14:34:09 And that's under tab A.
14:34:11 On tab B, in Southern Living magazine.
14:34:27 Cigar city brewery, Tampa, Florida.
14:34:29 If you read it, they just give a glowing report of this
14:34:32 I do want to tell you that we started out two years ago
14:34:36 with two employees.
14:34:37 Now, we're creating jobs.
14:34:39 Jobs is what this country is worried about.
14:34:42 We now have 22 employees there.
14:34:44 So, we are creating jobs.
14:34:46 If you'll skip over to "E" in the tabs, you'll find
14:34:55 that they have found that on some people have found
14:34:58 that this beer is the best in the world.
14:35:01 And we find that to be quite a glowing report on that.
14:35:08 F shows that it brings visitors to this area.
14:35:13 Visitors and money.
14:35:14 People come here to come to that brewery.
14:35:17 They stay in hotels.
14:35:18 They eat in restaurants.
14:35:20 And they do tours and also H, also is a testimony to
14:35:30 Also J.
14:35:34 J is a tour that goes around the world every year.
14:35:41 And that brings, they come here for cigar city brewery
14:35:44 and that brings 50 people here that stay here for this
14:35:48 tour, that come to this brewery.
14:35:51 Also like to tell you that we are at the limit of our,
14:35:57 of our license, the ed -- federal license.
14:36:00 We have already grown that much in two years.
14:36:02 That's because of the demand of course.
14:36:04 K just tells you how innovative the, our beer is.
14:36:13 How good it is.
14:36:14 How people like it.
14:36:15 And how we create a beer, we're creating beer.
14:36:19 I'm not.
14:36:19 My son is.
14:36:20 On L, it shows you this is the list of the best brewers
14:36:29 in the world, in the world.
14:36:30 We're number three on this list of the best brewers in
14:36:35 the world.
14:36:35 The next page under L will show you that we had
14:36:41 three -- four beers in the top 29 beers in the world.
14:36:46 And then on the next page, it will show you that we
14:36:49 have the top beer in the United States, draft beer,
14:36:55 right as rated by beer.com.
14:37:08 >> We supply Bonefish Grill, Circle K, World of Beer,
14:37:13 Whole Foods, Toller wine and more, ABC liquors and
14:37:18 we're proud to say we just got Publix.
14:37:20 For almost the whole state of Florida.
14:37:22 And we'll be supplying them their, our beer for them.
14:37:27 And we have a lot of independent vendors that I didn't
14:37:30 We also sell beer from here in New York, Pennsylvania,
14:37:34 Alabama, Georgia, North Carolina and South Carolina.
14:37:37 Already in these two years.
14:37:40 Want to tell you that if you go to tab T, you'll see
14:37:46 that Joey and the brewery are very active in the
14:37:51 We work with Make-A-Wish Foundation, whole planet
14:37:55 foundation, big brothers, big sisters.
14:37:58 We donate to school auctions.
14:38:02 We act green partnership, neighborhood, national night
14:38:08 United Way and Easter seals.
14:38:09 I know I'm forgetting something.
14:38:15 And we're asking for a 2(COP).
14:38:24 Thank you very much.
14:38:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Questions?
14:38:34 This is a public hearing.
14:38:39 Anyone wishes to address Council?
14:38:41 Anyone wish to address Council on this petition?
14:38:44 Any questions?
14:38:48 >>GWEN MILLER: We received a letter from the Lincoln
14:38:51 Gardens Carver City attorney.
14:38:55 Lincoln Gardens and Carver City has been coming down
14:38:58 here every time this has come before us.
14:39:03 I guess this time they are tired of coming because you
14:39:06 have disrespected their neighborhood.
14:39:09 Every time they come in droves, everybody voted against
14:39:11 They didn't think it was fair, so they had the attorney
14:39:14 send a letter.
14:39:15 They're stating since the conditional one year license
14:39:17 has been in place, we have found that the increase in
14:39:20 traffic and crime, based upon the neighborhood
14:39:24 observations, the activities at the establishment.
14:39:27 So they're saying they are opposing this again.
14:39:29 They do not want this 2(COP) in their neighborhood.
14:39:33 So I'm asking Council please respect this neighborhood.
14:39:38 They have been disrespected two or three times they
14:39:40 have been down here.
14:39:41 So I'm asking for your support this time.
14:39:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, sir?
14:39:48 >> Mr. Chairman, request all due respects to the
14:39:50 neighbors there, I personally went there about a year
14:39:54 I don't know if you know, I was there, Mr. Redner, did
14:39:56 you manager tell you that I was there?
14:39:58 >> Yes.
14:40:00 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I was very impressed.
14:40:02 And I am impressed right now when I hear they got some
14:40:05 20 something employees.
14:40:06 Because that's a focus that we heard during the
14:40:10 Everybody wants jobs.
14:40:11 And I sitting up here don't want us to put anybody out
14:40:16 of business.
14:40:17 Jobs is important.
14:40:18 We need jobs.
14:40:21 I was very, very impressed what I saw there.
14:40:23 I asked for Mr. Redner, but he wasn't there.
14:40:26 And I spoke to the manager, happened to be a female.
14:40:29 I can't remember her name.
14:40:30 And I was on my way to total wine around the corner.
14:40:34 So I says, here's Mr. Redner's place.
14:40:37 So I stopped in.
14:40:39 I was very impressed.
14:40:41 As the police report says, there's been no complaints.
14:40:44 I know the neighbors are saying there's more crime.
14:40:49 Well, the crime may not be coming from Mr. Redner's
14:40:53 We don't know where it's coming from.
14:40:54 But, I'll have to rely on the police department report
14:40:59 >> I just would believe if there was crime, if there
14:41:03 was more crime in that neighborhood, they would bring
14:41:06 some kind of a paper or some reports that said there
14:41:09 was more crime in that neighborhood than there was
14:41:11 And I would submit that the reason they don't bring
14:41:15 that is because there isn't.
14:41:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?
14:41:20 >> I doubt very seriously if there's more crime in that
14:41:23 neighborhood than there was.
14:41:24 And I know it's not from us.
14:41:27 That I know.
14:41:29 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Most of your people come there,
14:41:31 they drive and leave?
14:41:32 You don't have walkers coming there, do you?
14:41:34 >> I don't think we have ever had a walker.
14:41:36 Not that I can say there wasn't.
14:41:38 But I have never seen one.
14:41:39 No, we don't get -- we're not a neighborhood bar.
14:41:43 We do not get neighborhood people coming there.
14:41:46 We're too expensive to be a neighborhood bar in the
14:41:48 first place.
14:41:49 These people, it's a target.
14:41:51 They come there in their cars, to taste the beer.
14:41:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions by Council?
14:42:02 >>YVONNE CAPIN: What special use do you have now?
14:42:04 What is your -- you're asking for a 2(COP).
14:42:08 >> We have a 2(COP) with conditions on it.
14:42:10 And we would like to take the conditions off.
14:42:12 We have operated for a year under those conditions.
14:42:17 >> Thank you.
14:42:20 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Council, this case first came before
14:42:22 you a couple years ago in 2008.
14:42:24 In 2008, the request before you was for the 2(COP).
14:42:30 And Council issued a one year conditional at that time.
14:42:33 The applicant came back a year later and asked that
14:42:36 that one year conditional be changed to permanent
14:42:40 And at that time, at that hearing, there was
14:42:43 neighborhood concern.
14:42:45 And Council again granted another one year conditional.
14:42:48 That one year conditional is now approaching
14:42:53 So he's had two years of one year conditional.
14:42:57 Now he's back before you as that expiration approaches,
14:43:05 to ask for permanent status.
14:43:07 There are conditions on what he is asking for you
14:43:09 One is that all sales are in association with a
14:43:13 And the second is that it will close at 9:00 p.m.
14:43:17 Monday through Friday -- Monday through Thursday.
14:43:21 >> You have nine to 11.
14:43:23 >> No, it closes at 9:00.
14:43:25 It closes at 9:00 Sunday through Thursday.
14:43:28 And 11:00 p.m. on Friday and Saturday.
14:43:31 And those two conditions, that it is in association
14:43:39 with a microbrewery and those hours of 9:00 p.m. Sunday
14:43:42 through Thursday and 11:00 p.m. Friday and Saturday,
14:43:45 are on the plan that is before you today.
14:44:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions by Council?
14:44:30 You have anything else you want to ask?
14:44:34 Mr. Redner?
14:44:35 You have anything else you want to add?
14:44:41 >> Except that we're asking for a full 2(COP).
14:44:44 With full hours.
14:44:48 >> Mr. Chairman, the note it appears the site plan does
14:44:51 have the hours of operation on that.
14:44:53 And ultimately the site plan controls.
14:44:59 So the issue is, if this does go forward, they would be
14:45:07 bound by the hours of operation on the site plan.
14:45:09 Is that correct, Miss Kert?
14:45:12 Miss Feeley?
14:45:13 And this is the site plan that is submitted by the
14:45:26 >> We're asking, we're asking for a full 2(COP).
14:45:31 That is a mistake on the application.
14:45:35 If it's necessary, we'll put conditions on ourself.
14:45:43 >> Well, the conditions are on the site plan.
14:45:46 They're right here on the bottom.
14:45:47 Saturday, to 11.
14:45:50 Friday and Saturday Sunday, Thursday, to 9:00.
14:45:54 >> Those are our -- those were the ones from last time.
14:45:58 The ones, we brought that site plan, I guess that's the
14:46:02 same site plan because our site plan hasn't changed.
14:46:04 And they didn't take it off of there.
14:46:06 But in the application, we asked for a full 2(COP).
14:46:10 >> What hours?
14:46:12 >> 2(COP) hours.
14:46:14 >> What are they?
14:46:19 >> I will put conditions till 12.
14:46:26 We'd like to be open till 12 on the weekends.
14:46:28 Instead of 11.
14:46:30 On Friday and Saturday nights.
14:46:35 >>GWEN MILLER: I'm not going to support.
14:46:37 >> I didn't think you would support it anyway.
14:46:40 >>GWEN MILLER: The neighborhood don't want you there.
14:46:42 And I agree with the neighborhood.
14:46:44 We always agree with the neighborhood.
14:46:48 >> That's why we're here.
14:46:49 I understand that.
14:46:53 >> I have not obviously reviewed the notes on the site
14:46:56 But are there other conditions on this as well that
14:46:59 would apply?
14:46:59 Why O.
14:47:03 >> The only other condition, Council, is that all sales
14:47:05 are in association with a microbrewery.
14:47:10 That condition is on there.
14:47:11 And the hours were on there.
14:47:12 If it is, it's had Redner's desire that the Friday,
14:47:17 Saturday change till midnight and that's what he's
14:47:20 requested, that modification could be made in between
14:47:23 first and second reading, but, we were under the
14:47:28 impression that he was going to operate under the
14:47:30 conditions that he currently was.
14:47:31 He was just asking to move from that one year
14:47:34 conditional into a permanent step.
14:47:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right then.
14:47:40 Motion to close.
14:47:42 Is there a motion to close?
14:47:44 You have a question?
14:47:47 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, my question was going to be what
14:47:49 hours you meant to ask for?
14:47:51 So you're just asking.
14:47:52 That's it.
14:47:53 If they propose that, that can be changed between first
14:47:57 and second reading?
14:47:59 If that passes?
14:48:00 The midnight on Friday and Saturday?
14:48:03 >> Yes.
14:48:04 It would be just like you'd do with any other
14:48:06 modifications to a site plan in between first and
14:48:09 second reading, if it is had Redner's desire and
14:48:12 Council's pleasure to pass that as part of the motion,
14:48:14 you could say then that it would be approved on first
14:48:17 reading with the modification to be made to those hours
14:48:19 from the 11:00 p.m. to the midnight for Friday and
14:48:23 Everything else would remain the same.
14:48:27 >> I would agree to those hours.
14:48:30 >> And the hours for the rest of the week would be as
14:48:33 continued on the site plan?
14:48:35 >> Yes.
14:48:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, any other questions?
14:48:40 Motion to close.
14:48:41 Is there a second?
14:48:42 >> Second.
14:48:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
14:48:43 All in favor signify by saying aye.
14:48:47 Pleasure of Council?
14:48:50 >> I move for denial.
14:48:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?
14:48:59 No second.
14:49:02 >> Move for approval, Mr. Chairman.
14:49:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You have to read the ordinance, if
14:49:05 that's the case.
14:49:12 >> An ordinance approving special use permit S-2 for
14:49:16 alcohol beverage sales small venue making lawful the
14:49:19 sale of beverages containing alcohol more than one
14:49:22 percent by weight and not more than 14% by weight.
14:49:26 And wine regardless, beer and wine 2(COP) for
14:49:30 consumption on premises and in sealed containers for
14:49:33 consumption off premises at or from the certain lot,
14:49:37 plot, or tract of land located at 3924 west Spruce
14:49:41 Street, Tampa, Florida, as more particularly described
14:49:44 in section two here off, providing for repeal of all
14:49:47 ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.
14:49:49 The hours are going to be weekends will be 9:00 to 12.
14:49:58 And during the weekdays, from 9:00 to 9:00.
14:50:05 As on the site plans, except for the weekend.
14:50:08 The site plan says 11:00.
14:50:10 But it's going to be changed between the second reading
14:50:12 to 12:00.
14:50:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?
14:50:17 >> Second.
14:50:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:50:19 I'm not going to support the motion on the floor.
14:50:21 Primarily I didn't support it last time.
14:50:23 And basically, again, the petitioner asking for three
14:50:27 waivers outlined in the petition.
14:50:32 Asking to waive the minimum distance separation from a
14:50:34 thousand feet to 820.
14:50:35 Also requesting a minimum distance between a thousand
14:50:38 feet to 97 feet for residential use, which means that
14:50:41 we have ordinance that says a thousand feet.
14:50:43 But this will be moved now to 97.
14:50:47 And then third, we discuss the requirement separation
14:50:50 of thousand a to 139 institutional use.
14:50:53 So there are three conditional, three waivers that's
14:50:55 been requested by the party.
14:50:57 Then in 97 feet puts it right almost in the backyard of
14:51:01 this neighborhood.
14:51:02 It is interesting that we have all these other
14:51:07 neighborhood come in here, request, and we support
14:51:10 We voted down.
14:51:12 And we come now to this particular neighborhood and
14:51:14 then we always have an issue.
14:51:18 Rather than getting support for that.
14:51:19 And so I'm not going to support it.
14:51:21 And then, lastly, there's a letter in our files, mailed
14:51:26 to us from the neighborhood attorney, citing they have
14:51:30 had some problems and issues.
14:51:31 What you have to understand is, not all the time
14:51:33 everything is reported to the police.
14:51:35 I was out today in neighborhood, out in the grand oak
14:51:38 area looking at some complaints been made by residents
14:51:42 out there.
14:51:43 And some, you know, some occurrences.
14:51:46 An incident that has not been reported to the police as
14:51:49 So many times, people don't always report things
14:51:52 necessary to the police department.
14:51:53 So I want to go on record saying I'm not going to
14:51:57 support the petitioner.
14:51:59 There's a motion and a second.
14:52:00 All in favor signify by saying aye.
14:52:06 >> We have voice roll call?
14:52:10 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Yes.
14:52:12 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes.
14:52:14 >>GWEN MILLER: No.
14:52:16 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
14:52:18 >>CURTIS STOKES: No.
14:52:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No.
14:52:22 >> We have a split vote.
14:52:25 Voting yes.
14:52:26 Caetano, Capin and Mulhern.
14:52:28 Voting no, Miller, Stokes and Scott.
14:52:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It is my understanding that we have a
14:52:34 rule this will come back at our next regular board
14:52:36 meeting which will be the 18th at what time,
14:52:39 Mr. Shelby?
14:52:41 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The time Council would set.
14:52:42 That would be best to be done at 10:30 a.m.
14:52:47 Pursuant to rule 5 H.
14:52:50 Excuse me.
14:52:51 Pursuant to rule 6-H, if a, under new rules, revised
14:52:58 rules of motion quasi-judicial matters fails to receive
14:53:01 at least four votes the motion fails.
14:53:03 If another motion and order is not made, the public
14:53:06 hearing shall be reopened and continued to a date and
14:53:09 time certain when the full City Council may be present.
14:53:11 So it would be appropriate at this time for you to make
14:53:14 a motion to reopen the public hearing and then continue
14:53:16 it to November 18th at 10:30 a.m.
14:53:20 >> Second.
14:53:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It is my understanding though we only
14:53:23 take a vote going on that particular morning or is it
14:53:26 another full hearing?
14:53:27 >> Not a full hearing.
14:53:28 To continue it for the purposes of resolving this
14:53:32 >> I have a question.
14:53:33 How could we have a vote if someone's missing and they
14:53:36 didn't hear.
14:53:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: They have to read the transcript.
14:53:42 And the DVD.
14:53:45 >> Yes, I've done that.
14:53:46 >> Mr. Chairman, I would like to add to that, we'll
14:53:50 only have a meeting if we have a full Council?
14:53:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Pardon me.
14:53:54 >> We'll have meeting if we don't have a full Council.
14:53:57 >> I realize that.
14:53:58 But 3-3.
14:54:00 >> You'll need a full Council, obviously, it can be
14:54:04 continued to a date and time certain when the full
14:54:06 Council may be present.
14:54:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
14:54:10 Motion to reopen.
14:54:13 All in favor signify by saying aye.
14:54:17 You need a motion to continue.
14:54:20 >> So moved, Mr. Chairman.
14:54:21 >> Second.
14:54:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Been moved and second, it's continued
14:54:23 to November the 18th at 10:30.
14:54:26 Is that right?
14:54:33 What if we vote not to continue and you got a 3-3 tie?
14:54:40 >> You have to make a unanimous notion waive the rules,
14:54:43 because that's what's required.
14:54:46 If I understand your question, you're saying is what if
14:54:48 you make the motion to not continue?
14:54:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The motion is on the floor to continue
14:54:53 what if the motion is a 3-3 split on that motion?
14:54:58 >> Well, basically what happens is, it says the public
14:55:01 hearing shall be reopened and continued to date and
14:55:04 time certain.
14:55:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So if that is the case we don't need a
14:55:08 motion if it's going to be continued.
14:55:10 >> Well, it's a ministerial function.
14:55:12 Because this is a quasi-judicial matter and the charter
14:55:15 requires a vote of four in order to resolve it.
14:55:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I understand that.
14:55:18 But the question though is, there's a motion to
14:55:21 continue I don't have to support that motion.
14:55:22 I don't have to support any motion.
14:55:25 >> That's true.
14:55:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So I'm saying, what if this Council by
14:55:29 a vote of 3-3 votes, which means that motion then is
14:55:33 not continued?
14:55:35 >> That's a very good question.
14:55:40 >> It's not in the book.
14:55:42 >> The question is, why do we have to continue this?
14:55:45 Because we don't normally do, move for a continuance.
14:55:49 It just comes back.
14:55:52 I don't remember doing this before.
14:55:54 >> You never have.
14:55:55 >> Then why are we doing it now?
14:55:58 >> Because we revised our rules.
14:56:00 Because we have this issue where you don't have a
14:56:02 situation where you come back at the next regular
14:56:04 meeting, is the public hearing open, is it closed? Can
14:56:07 people speak?
14:56:08 Can people not speak?
14:56:09 And they don't know whether or not there's even notice
14:56:12 because it's not continued to a date and time certain.
14:56:15 So, from a legal standpoint, it makes more sense to
14:56:18 continue this hearing to a date and time certain and
14:56:21 not have all the restrictions about having to review
14:56:23 and entire record, because we have Councilmembers come
14:56:26 in and out, or come in late during the middle of a
14:56:28 hearing and catch up.
14:56:29 You don't require that hearing be continued and then
14:56:32 retake all the testimony.
14:56:35 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, we didn't vote to change our
14:56:36 rules so when we had a 3-3 tie it would not pass.
14:56:39 So that's essentially what he's asking to do here.
14:56:42 If he's going to vote, if he's not going to vote to
14:56:46 continue it, then we'll still have...
14:56:54 I mean, that's not what we voted to do.
14:56:58 So, if in effect you're changing the rules to that
14:57:01 effect, I don't think Council supported that when we
14:57:04 changed our rules.
14:57:05 I don't think this is working.
14:57:15 >> Counselor, in the past, I've only been here three
14:57:18 and a half years, every time it's a tie, I think the
14:57:21 rule is that it come back to the next regular meeting.
14:57:25 Why are we changing our rules?
14:57:27 >> The reason Council changed the rules -- there are
14:57:32 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: When did they change the rules?
14:57:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: They.
14:57:35 You mean us?
14:57:37 [ Laughter ]
14:57:38 They is us.
14:57:40 >> October 7th, the rules changed on October 7th.
14:57:45 And the reason the rules changed was because from a
14:57:49 legal standpoint, to not -- to have -- first of all,
14:57:53 let me preface it by saying, the City of Tampa, City
14:57:58 Council is unique in one regard with regard to the
14:58:03 Most of the boards say that it requires a majority vote
14:58:08 of the members present.
14:58:09 And most boards you probably served on require a
14:58:13 majority vote of the members present.
14:58:15 Your city charter says in order for City Council to
14:58:17 take action, whether it's action to approve or action
14:58:20 to deny, requires a vote of 4 regardless of how many
14:58:24 members are present.
14:58:25 And that poses an issue.
14:58:28 And that's a charter obligation.
14:58:32 So what I'm saying is, we have come up with situations
14:58:36 where a vote with a tie vote.
14:58:39 A Councilmember was absent.
14:58:41 It had to come back at the next regular meeting.
14:58:44 And what that meant was, that the absent members had to
14:58:48 review the entire record, review the DVDs and was
14:58:52 able to prepare for just a vote.
14:58:54 What happened, it came up under unfinished business and
14:59:01 people didn't know specifically when it would come up.
14:59:03 And whether or not they would have an opportunity to
14:59:06 The question came up as to what happens if the
14:59:08 individual absent Councilmember, after reviewing the
14:59:11 evidence and before meeting to vote, had a question
14:59:14 that they needed to have answered, would be dispositive
14:59:16 of how they would vote, do you reopen the hearing?
14:59:21 And the answer would be yes.
14:59:25 In all fairness, yes, because how would otherwise a
14:59:29 Councilmember vote?
14:59:30 But nobody had noticed they would have the opportunity
14:59:32 to have to be there to answer a question, would there
14:59:35 be any rebuttal?
14:59:37 Then it created issues that was resolved by the
14:59:39 changing of this rule.
14:59:40 And that's why --
14:59:45 >> Oh, my.
14:59:47 >>JULIA COLE: If I might.
14:59:48 Can I ask you to table the matter for five minutes so I
14:59:51 can go back and look at the rules and more properly
14:59:54 advise City Council as to what their obligation is
14:59:56 under the rules?
14:59:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You don't have to do that I'll vote to
14:59:59 continue it.
15:00:00 I'll do that today.
15:00:01 But you all need to correct the problem because I may
15:00:03 not do that in the future.
15:00:05 I understand what the intent.
15:00:06 I'm going to honor the intent.
15:00:09 But I may not do that in the future.
15:00:12 So there's a motion for continuance.
15:00:15 Let's dispose of the motion and then I'll come to you.
15:00:18 Can we do that?
15:00:20 Do you mind?
15:00:21 Don't mind?
15:00:24 >> No, because I'm going to go back.
15:00:26 The intent -- so isn't -- if in fact it was 3-3 and
15:00:32 then it was again denied, what you have done is
15:00:35 denied -- you denied the -- if it came out again 3-3 to
15:00:44 not continue, you have basically said no to this
15:00:51 >>REBECCA KERT: If I can just jump in then we can just
15:00:55 continue this and maybe have this discussion later.
15:00:57 But you cannot by a 3-3 vote have this be denied.
15:01:03 Not only do you have to affirmatively act on a floor
15:01:06 The state statute requires to you take affirmative
15:01:09 action and if you are going to deny to, as part of your
15:01:13 motion, state the reasons for that.
15:01:15 Because that has to be done by a motion.
15:01:17 This is really a ministerial act.
15:01:21 Perhaps you rules could be better amended to reflect
15:01:25 that but you are required to under state law to take
15:01:28 final action since you will not be able to do that
15:01:30 today, it is my recommendation that you just take the
15:01:33 ministerial action to continue this to your next
15:01:35 >> I would have said that.
15:01:36 [ Laughter ]
15:01:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
15:01:42 Councilwoman Mulhern?
15:01:45 >>MARY MULHERN: But my question is, this is what
15:01:48 doesn't make sense to me.
15:01:49 So, we'll maybe -- maybe we can put -- I'm going to put
15:01:55 it on the agenda at the end of the meeting to discuss
15:01:57 this further.
15:01:58 Because sounds like maybe we haven't resolved all our
15:02:02 If by state law, we can't -- is it because this is a
15:02:06 quasi-judicial, we can't deny it on a -- it has to be a
15:02:12 majority vote to deny?
15:02:15 >> Must take affirmative action in combination with
15:02:17 your charter, you can't take affirmative action without
15:02:19 four votes.
15:02:20 So you cannot just allow this to die.
15:02:24 >>MARY MULHERN: So because of what's written in our
15:02:27 But are there other municipalities that, like.
15:02:32 >> I would really recommend that we continue this.
15:02:34 >>MARY MULHERN: We'll continue the discussion later.
15:02:36 >> After the rest of the hearing.
15:02:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yeah.
15:02:38 I understand.
15:02:39 Motion to continue, all in favor signify by saying aye.
15:02:50 All right.
15:02:51 Continued till November 18th at 10:30.
15:02:56 Okay, thank you.
15:03:02 That was a good discussion.
15:03:03 A legal question.
15:03:08 We'll take up the next item.
15:03:10 >> We are going to be in New York for a beer festival.
15:03:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Why did you let us go through all that?
15:03:21 So what's the next date?
15:03:23 >> December 2nd, 10:30.
15:03:27 >> When does it expire?
15:03:30 >> December 16th.
15:03:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: December what?
15:03:41 >> December 2nd.
15:03:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Can the motion reflect December the
15:03:45 Do we need to make that all over again?
15:03:48 >> We really need to re-do it.
15:03:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to.
15:03:53 >> To continue to December 2nd.
15:03:55 >> Second.
15:03:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Till 10:30 in the morning.
15:03:57 Moved and second, all in favor signify by saying aye.
15:04:03 Thank you very kindly.
15:04:47 >> V 10-371, 17002 Palm Pointe Drive.
15:04:56 Consumption on premises only, beer and wine with
15:04:58 restaurant reporting.
15:04:59 Show you some photographs.
15:05:00 Location up in New Tampa.
15:05:06 Here's Bruce B. Downs over to the south.
15:05:09 Here's the strip center in question right here.
15:05:15 Here's the location.
15:05:18 Here's what the restaurant looks like.
15:05:24 Other side picture.
15:05:30 We found the site plan to be inconsistent.
15:05:46 Waiver number three needs to be removed and needs to
15:05:49 have state 30 parking spaces with 120 occupant load
15:05:53 times point 25 spaces equals 30 pace -- spaces
15:06:00 82 spaces provided, five handicap accessible.
15:06:03 Waivers for separation for residential uses is 1,008 to
15:06:07 448 feet.
15:06:08 Waivers for separation for establishments selling
15:06:11 alcohol is one thousand feet to 60 feet.
15:06:14 4,318 square feet.
15:06:16 Hours of operation, 11:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m.
15:06:20 Seven days a week.
15:06:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Officer Miller?
15:06:31 >> Don Miller, City of Tampa Police Department.
15:06:35 City of Tampa Police Department has no objection.
15:06:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?
15:06:46 >> Hi.
15:06:53 The address of the restaurant is 17002 Palm Pointe
15:06:57 Drive at the New Tampa area.
15:07:00 >> State your name.
15:07:00 >> My name is Li Xin Shi.
15:07:03 His name is Li Xin Shi because he don't speak English.
15:07:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Are you going to add anything to the
15:07:14 >> No.
15:07:14 We got a miss report, there is no objection.
15:07:22 No public calls for the objection.
15:07:24 And also the neighborhood association has no objection.
15:07:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anything else?
15:07:34 Anyone here in opposition to this petition?
15:07:36 Anyone here in opposition?
15:07:38 Anyone want to speak?
15:07:41 All right.
15:07:41 Motion to close?
15:07:42 >> So moved.
15:07:43 >> Second.
15:07:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
15:07:44 All in favor signify by saying aye.
15:07:47 Councilman Stokes?
15:07:52 This is up in Tampa Palms.
15:07:56 >>CURTIS STOKES: I'll read half and let Councilman
15:08:00 Caetano read the other half.
15:08:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No, we are not going to let him do
15:08:05 >> Ordinance approving special use S-2 small making
15:08:10 lawful the sale of beverages containing alcohol of more
15:08:12 than one percent by weight and not more than 14% by
15:08:15 And wines regardless of alcoholic content, 2(COP-R) for
15:08:20 consumption on the premises only in connection with the
15:08:24 restaurant business establishment on that certain lot,
15:08:27 plot or tract of land located at 170120 palm point
15:08:33 drive, Tampa, Florida as more particularly described in
15:08:35 section two here off, providing for re-- providing for
15:08:39 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
15:08:40 effective date.
15:08:41 >> Moved and second.
15:08:42 All in favor signify by saying aye.
15:08:46 >> Motion carried about Miranda being absent.
15:08:48 Second reading of the ordinance will be held November
15:08:51 the 18th at 9:30 a.m.
15:08:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 9:30 on the 18th.
15:08:58 Item 75.
15:09:00 Item 75.
15:09:21 >> V 10-3:75 property of the address is 19910 Bruce B.
15:09:26 Downs Boulevard.
15:09:29 2(APS) for consumption off premises only for beer and
15:09:32 New Tampa area, Bruce B. Downs.
15:09:45 Here's the super Walmart.
15:09:46 Here's the entryway from the west.
15:09:55 Westward through the parking lot.
15:09:59 Looking east across the street.
15:10:02 North down Bruce B. Downs.
15:10:05 South down Bruce B. Downs.
15:10:09 We found the site plan to be consistent.
15:10:13 No changes is required.
15:10:14 Waivers for separation residential uses from 1,000 feet
15:10:17 to 860 feet.
15:10:18 Waivers for institutional uses from 1,000 to 160 feet.
15:10:22 Total square footage is 199,724 square feet.
15:10:27 Provided parking required is 799.
15:10:31 Spaces provided is 897, which 18 are ADA compliance.
15:10:36 Hours of operations are 24 hours.
15:10:38 Which are governed by chapter three.
15:10:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Officer Miller?
15:10:48 >> Officer Don Miller.
15:10:49 City of Tampa Police Department.
15:10:51 City of Tampa Police Department has no objection.
15:10:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?
15:10:55 >> Good afternoon, Councilmember, Kimberly Madison,
15:10:58 Adams and Reese, 101 East Kennedy Boulevard.
15:11:01 With me today, Scott Gilner and Greg DuKay, the project
15:11:05 engineer and surveyor.
15:11:06 We agree with findings by the city and here to answer
15:11:09 any questions.
15:11:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here in opposition to this
15:11:12 Anyone here in opposition?
15:11:18 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: What hours are they permitted to
15:11:21 Store is open 24 hours.
15:11:28 >> That's governed by section 3 sub20.
15:11:31 So it would be between the hours of 7:00 a.m. on each
15:11:34 day, Monday through Saturday, ending 3:00 a.m.
15:11:37 following day and between the hours commencing
15:11:38 11:00 a.m. on Sunday and ending at 3:00 a.m. the
15:11:40 following day.
15:11:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
15:11:44 >> Move to close.
15:11:45 >> Second.
15:11:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
15:11:49 All in favor signify by saying aye.
15:11:56 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you Mr. Chairman.
15:12:00 I move an ordinance approving a special use permit K
15:12:04 two for alcoholic beverage sales, small venue and
15:12:07 making lawful the sail of beverages containing alcohol
15:12:10 more than one percent, not more than 14% by weight and
15:12:13 wines regardless of alcoholic content.
15:12:15 Beer and wine 2(APS) in sealed containers for
15:12:18 consumption off premises only at certain lot, plot or
15:12:21 tract of land located 19910 Bruce B. Downs Boulevard,
15:12:25 Tampa, Florida as more particularly described in
15:12:29 section two here off, providing for repeal of all
15:12:31 ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.
15:12:34 >> Second.
15:12:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
15:12:36 Second by Councilman Stokes.
15:12:38 All in favor signify by saying aye.
15:12:42 >> Motion carried with Miranda being absent.
15:12:45 Second reading of the ordinance will be held November
15:12:47 the 18th at 9:30 a.m.
15:12:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 76.
15:12:54 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Item number 87, Council this afternoon
15:12:57 is V-10-376, located 110 West Gasparilla plaza.
15:13:02 It is the Glazers children's museum.
15:13:04 The request before you is for a 4(COP-X).
15:13:08 And there are some distance separation waivers.
15:13:14 To other establishments selling alcoholic beverages,
15:13:17 448 feet to residential.
15:13:19 And zero feet to institutional uses.
15:13:22 I know this is a familiar site in the city.
15:13:27 Don't know how many have been over there yet.
15:13:30 This is looking northwest.
15:13:42 Another picture.
15:13:43 Out front.
15:13:48 The request before you is for 57,170 square feet.
15:13:57 For alcoholic beverage sales of which 4,042 square feet
15:14:02 are outdoors.
15:14:03 The entire site contains point 44 acres.
15:14:05 Required parking is satisfied through lease agreement
15:14:09 with the City of Tampa and Poe garage.
15:14:12 There is one minor modification, which is that the
15:14:16 outdoor square footage on the site plan, the last two
15:14:19 numbers were transposed.
15:14:20 It should be 42 feet and it's listed as -- I'm sorry,
15:14:25 should be 4,042 square feet and it's listed as 4,024.
15:14:29 So we would like that changed to between first and
15:14:31 second reading.
15:14:32 Other item is that the hours of operation shown on the
15:14:35 site plan shows 7:00 a.m. to 3:00 a.m.
15:14:39 Which is not consistent with chapter 3, which on Sunday
15:14:42 would be 11:00 a.m. to 3:00 a.m.
15:14:44 For alcoholic beverage sales.
15:14:46 We have discussed this with Miss Zelman.
15:14:48 It appears that the hours of operation for the museum
15:14:51 on Sunday begin at 1:00p.m.
15:14:53 If they would change it to be 11:00 a.m. and be
15:14:55 consistent with chapter three, then everyone would be
15:14:58 consistent and able to move forward.
15:15:00 Staff is available for any questions.
15:15:06 >> Don Miller, City of Tampa Police Department.
15:15:08 We have no objection.
15:15:10 >> Good afternoon, Andrea Zelman, Fowler White.
15:15:14 I have here with me today, Ella Najjar of the Glazer
15:15:20 children's museum.
15:15:20 We want to thank all of your staff.
15:15:22 They have been very helpful with us on this petition.
15:15:25 We do agree with the changes Abbye just mentioned and
15:15:28 will submit new site plans before second reading.
15:15:30 I just want to make clear because there's been
15:15:33 misunderstanding among the complex.
15:15:35 The museum will not be selling alcohol to visitors to
15:15:38 the museum.
15:15:39 People taking their children.
15:15:40 Although some parents may have wanted that, that will
15:15:42 not be the case.
15:15:43 The only reason we are going through this process is so
15:15:46 that they can rent the space for fundraisers, parties,
15:15:51 wedding receptions, where tears a cash bar.
15:15:54 Things like that.
15:15:55 We need to get this wet zoning in order to allow
15:15:58 alcohol to be sold for those types of events.
15:16:01 And that is part of the special act of the legislature
15:16:04 that was passed for the museum, so that is very clear.
15:16:07 I just want to make sure everyone understands that.
15:16:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Won't be selling to children either,
15:16:13 >> Will not be selling to children.
15:16:15 [ Laughter ]
15:16:15 >> So thank you very much.
15:16:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
15:16:17 Anyone from the public wish to address Council on this?
15:16:22 Motion to close?
15:16:23 >> Move to close.
15:16:24 >> Second.
15:16:24 >> All in favor signify by saying aye.
15:16:26 Who wants to read it?
15:16:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Approving a special use permit for
15:16:42 alcoholic beverage sales large venue and making lawful
15:16:44 to sell beverage regardless of alcoholic content, beer
15:16:48 wine and realty -- liquor for consumption on the
15:16:52 premises only, from certain lot, plot tract of land
15:16:55 located 110 West Gasparilla plaza, more particularly
15:16:58 described in section two here off, imposing certain
15:17:01 conditions based upon the location of the property,
15:17:05 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict,
15:17:06 providing an effective date.
15:17:08 >> Second.
15:17:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
15:17:10 Second by Councilman Stokes.
15:17:11 All in favor signify by saying aye.
15:17:15 >> Motion carried with Miranda being absent.
15:17:17 Second reading of the ordinance will be held November
15:17:19 the 18th at 9:30 a.m.
15:17:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
15:17:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 77.
15:17:41 >> Application V-10-403.
15:17:53 Address 1600 east eighth avenue, applying for four COP.
15:17:58 Allows for sale of beverages regardless of alcoholic
15:18:01 content for consumption on and sealed containers,
15:18:04 consumption off the premises for the small venue.
15:18:07 Want to make sure Mr. Scott, you received their --
15:18:13 >> Yes, we did.
15:18:21 >> Photographs.
15:18:21 Location Ybor City.
15:18:26 Location is right behind the Centro Ybor complex.
15:18:32 There's palm and here's seventh.
15:18:36 Subject to location, to the west.
15:18:46 To the north.
15:18:48 And to the west.
15:18:51 Look at the location of the unit from the south.
15:18:57 Looking at the west on eighth.
15:19:01 And to the south.
15:19:03 We found the site plan consistent.
15:19:08 No change is required at this time.
15:19:10 Waivers for separation for establishment selling
15:19:14 alcoholic beverages, 1,000 feet to 35 feet.
15:19:17 Have separation for residential uses from 1,000 feet to
15:19:21 347 feet.
15:19:22 Waivers for institutional uses 1,000 feet to 118 feet.
15:19:26 Total square foot is 100,003,450 square feet of which
15:19:31 4,238 square feet is outside.
15:19:35 Offstreet parking is not required within the YC 1
15:19:38 zoning district.
15:19:40 Hours of operation are Monday through Thursday.
15:19:43 11:00 a.m. to one a.m.
15:19:45 Friday and Saturday, 11:00 a.m. to 2:00 a.m.
15:19:48 And Sundays, 12:00 p.m. to 11:00 p.m.
15:19:51 It was a 4(COP-R) prior to coming to you today.
15:19:55 Under file WZ 06-87, ordinance 2006, 185.
15:20:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Officer Miller?
15:20:08 >> Officer Miller, City of Tampa Police Department.
15:20:11 City of Tampa Police Department has no objections.
15:20:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?
15:20:13 Chairman Scott, honorable City Council,
15:20:19 representatives, my name is Colonel John Doble.
15:20:25 The address is 1600 eighth avenue, Tampa, Florida.
15:20:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here in open position to this
15:20:34 Anyone in opposition?
15:20:35 Okay, motion to close?
15:20:36 >> So moved.
15:20:37 >> Second.
15:20:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.
15:20:41 Councilwoman Capin?
15:20:42 You want to add anything else, sir, before we vote?
15:20:46 >> We want a lot of stuff.
15:20:47 [ Laughter ]
15:20:51 >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
15:20:54 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
15:20:55 An ordinance repealing ordinance No. 200-3194,
15:21:01 approving a special use permit S-2 for alcoholic
15:21:05 beverage sales, small venue and making lawful the sale
15:21:08 of beverages containing alcohol, regardless of alcohol
15:21:11 content, beer, wine and liquor, 4(COP) for the
15:21:15 consumption on the premise and in sealed containers for
15:21:19 consumption off the premise on that certain lot, plot
15:21:22 or tract of land located at 1600 east eighth avenue,
15:21:27 Tampa, Florida, as more particularly described in
15:21:30 section 3 here off, imposing certain conditions based
15:21:33 upon the location of the property providing for repeal
15:21:37 of all ordinances in conflict, providing an effective
15:21:41 >> Second.
15:21:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
15:21:43 Second by Councilman Caetano.
15:21:45 All in favor signify by saying eye?
15:21:48 >> Motion carried with Miranda being capture -- absent.
15:21:53 Second reading, November 18th at 9:30 a.m.
15:21:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The last item is item 78.
15:21:59 Appeal hearing from the HART regional transit
15:22:12 >> After reviewing the application, I've determined
15:22:15 this does need to be heard by the Barrio Latino
15:22:17 Commission prior to coming to City Council.
15:22:20 I have advised HART and the other persons who came down
15:22:24 for notice on this particular matter and they are aware
15:22:26 that this does need to be continued.
15:22:29 In order to have it set for City Council, I'm asking
15:22:32 for it, after the BLC, I'm asking this be continued New
15:22:36 Mexico January 6, 2011.
15:22:38 >> So moved.
15:22:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
15:22:40 All in favor signify by saying aye.
15:22:44 >> Did you want a time on that?
15:22:47 Time certain?
15:22:49 >> If you want to put it on the same time as your
15:22:51 review here.
15:22:52 I think you're going to begin.
15:22:55 >> 10:30.
15:22:56 >> 10:30 or 11.
15:22:57 >> 11.
15:23:01 >> Go ahead and just put it on for your 11:00 public
15:23:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 11:00.
15:23:08 Council, anything else need to come before us?
15:23:11 Anything else?
15:23:13 Anything else from legal?
15:23:15 >> Let's talk about that.
15:23:17 >> I apologize for barging down here in the middle of
15:23:20 that hearing.
15:23:21 I had just been involved in the drafting of the rule
15:23:23 and wanted to refresh my recollection as to what was
15:23:26 intended to do.
15:23:27 The way your rule was previously drafted, it was a
15:23:30 ministerial action when there was a tie vote.
15:23:32 It would automatically go on to the next meeting date.
15:23:37 The legal department made a recommendation, both
15:23:41 myself, Mr. Shelby made a recommendation that we change
15:23:44 had that so it would continued public hearing to be
15:23:47 reset for the purposes of allowing, if there are City
15:23:50 Council members after reviewing the tape or there's
15:23:52 additional questions that come up, were not caught in a
15:23:56 procedural due process quagmire of having something
15:23:58 that hasn't been continued on the record, with no
15:24:02 notice to anybody there's a possibility there may be a
15:24:04 public hearing, while having City Council have the
15:24:08 opportunity to ask additional questions, without having
15:24:10 to re-notice.
15:24:12 The rule was intended to be self-executing, meaning it
15:24:16 did not need an action of City Council.
15:24:17 It should just happen automatically.
15:24:20 If there is' cleanup to the rule that I would
15:24:22 recommend, we didn't put in that it would continue to
15:24:24 the next, the next regular City Council agenda.
15:24:29 So it does leave up the opportunity for City Council to
15:24:32 have to take action on to when to set it.
15:24:34 And it may be a better, a better rule from a
15:24:38 ministerial action to just have the rule self-execute
15:24:41 to the extent that it continues to the next regularly
15:24:46 scheduled City Council meeting, unless there is a
15:24:49 motion and action on City Council to schedule it for
15:24:51 another time.
15:24:51 And I think that would alleviate the need for the vote
15:24:55 because I think what happened today, there was a need
15:24:57 for a vote to set it.
15:24:58 To set the actual public hearing, but it's intended to
15:25:01 be self-executing.
15:25:02 So I'm going to recommend and I actually wrote a little
15:25:04 note on the Marty's version of this to go ahead and
15:25:08 change that language and would recommend that he goes
15:25:12 ahead and brings that language change back so that we
15:25:14 don't have that com conflict in the future.
15:25:17 >> We are going to add the word that the public hearing
15:25:19 shall automatically be reopened.
15:25:21 And continued to next regular meeting at 10:30, unless
15:25:24 otherwise by motion of Council.
15:25:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think another issuing -- thank you
15:25:28 very much.
15:25:28 Do we need a motion for that?
15:25:32 >> If you wish to have this amended.
15:25:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a motion?
15:25:35 >> So moved.
15:25:36 >> Second.
15:25:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
15:25:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.
15:25:47 I just need to address the issue that was raised
15:25:51 earlier with Mr. Michelini petitioning Councilman
15:25:56 Caetano raised a question about why is it before us.
15:25:58 And I think the issue is, the staff may want to address
15:26:02 You may have advised him there was no method in place,
15:26:06 just so we're clear.
15:26:07 Because he raised the point why is this before us?
15:26:10 You know.
15:26:10 You all recall that?
15:26:15 >>REBECCA KERT: Just because we are talking about
15:26:17 something that was in the middle of a hearing, perhaps
15:26:19 it would be more appropriate for me to address that in
15:26:22 two weeks when it comes back.
15:26:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
15:26:26 I'm telling you, you all are on it today.
15:26:28 Anything else to come before -- anyone.
15:26:35 Received and filed.
15:26:36 >> So moved.
15:26:37 >> All in favor signify by saying aye.
15:26:39 Anyone from the public wish to address City Council?
15:26:41 Seeing none, okay, we stand adjourned.
15:26:43 Thank you.
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