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TAMPA CITY COUNCIL

Thursday, December 2, 2010

9:00 a.m. session


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09:06:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come to

09:06:36 order.

09:06:36 The chair will recognize the honorable Curtis Stokes.

09:06:44 >>CURTIS STOKES: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. If

09:06:48 there is ever indication we needed light rail it is

09:06:50 now.

09:06:52 Reverend James is late coming from Brandon, and Jim

09:06:59 Crew from the City of Tampa will do our invocation.

09:07:05 >> Father, we are thank you for this beautiful cold

09:07:12 morning.

09:07:12 We thank you for your blessings new every morning.

09:07:15 We thank you that we can call upon your presence that

09:07:17 we can invoke your aid at any time because you said if

09:07:20 we draw near to you, you will draw near to us, and we

09:07:23 do so right now.

09:07:24 We ask for your wisdom for our servants and consider

09:07:27 this day and we thank you that you give it in Jesus

09:07:31 name whom I call Lord.

09:07:33 Amen.

09:07:34 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]

09:07:47 >> Thank you, Mr. Crew.

09:07:52 Roll call.

09:07:53 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.

09:07:57 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Present.

09:07:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.

09:07:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.

09:08:02 >>CURTIS STOKES: Present.

09:08:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.

09:08:06 Board members, it is my honor and distinct pleasure

09:08:20 today to recognize attorney Carolyn House Stewart.

09:08:25 I will ask that she join me and her husband at the




09:08:28 podium here as we make this presentation.

09:08:30 A few weeks ago, there whats a reception in honor of

09:08:35 her and the Board of Directors at the Marriott for

09:08:41 recognizing her for this great accomplishment, serving

09:08:45 as the 28th international president of the Alpha

09:08:50 Kappa alpha sorority founded in 1908.

09:08:56 It is one of the largest sororities, over 250,000

09:09:02 members internationally and globally, and so we want to

09:09:08 recognize her for this great accomplishment.

09:09:11 She has been selected as the president to head this

09:09:14 distinguished organization.

09:09:17 And also it is my understanding that first lady

09:09:22 Michelle Obama is a member as well of this great

09:09:25 organization.

09:09:25 So it is an honor today to have Mrs. Stewart here who

09:09:31 is an outstanding citizen in our community and bring

09:09:35 much to this community.

09:09:36 So, council, I want to thank you today as we present to

09:09:39 her this commendation for this great accomplishment.

09:09:45 And of course we look for her as she moves forward with

09:09:49 the board to accomplish great things.

09:09:52 A few weeks ago on Saturday evening, global leadership




09:09:57 through timely service, so we look forward to hearing

09:10:00 from Mrs. Stewart as she moves forward in this

09:10:05 community and nationally and internationally.

09:10:08 On behalf of the Tampa City Council we would like to

09:10:11 present you this commendation for the great

09:10:14 accomplishment in your life.

09:10:18 Nothing happens by accident.

09:10:19 And so this is a great honor and occasion for us and

09:10:25 our blessings are with you as you move forward in your

09:10:28 new assignment.

09:10:30 Thank you so very much.

09:10:33 [ Applause ]

09:10:40 >>CURTIS STOKES: Mrs. Stewart, before you leave, on

09:10:42 behalf of my brothers in alpha Phi alpha,

09:10:49 congratulations on your appointment.

09:10:50 And you will do a great job.

09:10:52 Thank you very much for what you do.

09:10:52 >>> Thank you so much, council members.

09:10:55 It is a singular honor to receive this recognition from

09:10:58 the greatest city in the world.

09:11:03 As I travel I always have Tampa with me.

09:11:05 I was educated here.




09:11:06 I received my nurturing here, my education, and most

09:11:10 importantly my inspiration from great citizens and

09:11:12 great leaders like you.

09:11:14 Thank you very much.

09:11:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to adopt the minutes.

09:11:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.

09:11:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

09:11:40 All in favor?

09:11:41 Opposes?

09:11:41 Okay.

09:11:42 We'll review the agenda.

09:11:43 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, members

09:11:45 of Tampa City Council.

09:11:46 In front of you, you have the addendum to today's

09:11:48 agenda, some minor changes.

09:11:52 There is a request to by Chairman Scott to add a

09:11:56 discussion regarding the recent concerns from Ybor City

09:12:00 community regarding the installation of TECO polls on

09:12:03 Fifth Avenue.

09:12:03 Would you like Mr. Scott to have that placed under

09:12:05 staff reports and have staff here to discuss that?

09:12:09 >> Yes.




09:12:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: There's also a request in front of

09:12:15 you.

09:12:16 You have a substitute memorandum of understanding for

09:12:19 number 26, and city attorney Jorge Martinez is here.

09:12:27 My understanding is they are changing the name of the

09:12:30 organization to the CP development group 3 LLC and also

09:12:34 a correction of the numbers that are on the memorandum

09:12:38 of understanding totaling $3.5 million.

09:12:42 So that is a request for that.

09:12:44 When you move number 26 to move the substitution.

09:12:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Along with that, requesting someone

09:12:52 from the housing department to address this very

09:12:55 important issue for us as well.

09:12:56 Okay?

09:12:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Then, council, you also have on item

09:13:03 35 an e-mail from councilman Miranda requesting that

09:13:10 item 35 be removed from the agenda.

09:13:14 And you have some new business items that you could

09:13:17 take up at the end of the meeting.

09:13:18 But other than that, City Council, I am not aware of

09:13:20 any other changes to today's agenda and I present to

09:13:23 the you for your approval.




09:13:24 >>GWEN MILLER: So moved.

09:13:27 >> Second.

09:13:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?

09:13:29 Opposes?

09:13:30 Okay.

09:13:41 We'll take public comment.

09:13:43 If you wish to address City Council on any item on the

09:13:45 agenda, you may come now.

09:13:47 Anyone here wish to address City Council on any item on

09:13:50 the agenda?

09:14:08 >> My name is ed Tillou, and I live in north, and I

09:14:18 live in north Tampa and I was coming to address

09:14:21 something, I understand Mr. Miranda is associated with

09:14:28 most of all.

09:14:31 Items 38 and 41 but I would like to postpone that,

09:14:35 something that had come up earlier, which is 32, I

09:14:38 believe.

09:14:40 Which is Cigar City brewery.

09:14:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry to interrupt you but number

09:14:47 32 is set for a particular public hearing, and comments

09:14:51 for that subject will be taken up at that time.

09:14:54 Sometime after 9:30.




09:14:55 >>> You don't know about what time?

09:14:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Sometime shortly after 9:30, I would

09:15:02 suspect.

09:15:03 >>> Okay.

09:15:05 Then I'll come back on that.

09:15:07 But the thing I was intending to coming on, which I

09:15:11 guess relates most to 38 and 41, which ties together

09:15:19 several things around Tampa.

09:15:24 I heard Mr. Miranda speak at something like an

09:15:27 environmentalist conference, and he was saying that

09:15:31 replacement of the water mains has increased on ten

09:15:34 miles a year to 40 miles a year, but I'm a regular Hart

09:15:40 rider, and Hart should have done more about this rather

09:15:43 than the Hart rider.

09:15:45 But it was terrible disruption of the bus service.

09:15:49 I don't think that was very sensitively done regarding

09:15:52 the buses.

09:15:53 And I think 40 miles a year is more than these people

09:15:56 can cope with.

09:15:57 The ball was in their court, and they dropped it.

09:16:00 I am a civil engineer.

09:16:02 And would be that that profession has taken as good




09:16:07 care of me as Mr. Miranda seems to have taken care of

09:16:10 them.

09:16:10 But the thing is, if you want work, engineers for

09:16:17 construction, you have to start looking at the roads.

09:16:19 The roads are starting to deteriorate very badly.

09:16:23 Now, I don't know if Mayor Iorio is running

09:16:32 interference for Mr. Dick Greco because they say he was

09:16:35 very good with public works.

09:16:37 She's even said that.

09:16:38 And the condition of the roads, even people like me

09:16:41 rather than supporting Mr. Turanchik would support Dick

09:16:44 Greco.

09:16:45 He's going to do something about the roads.

09:16:47 Most especially the roads that the buses have used.

09:16:50 The worst road in the city is Lois.

09:16:52 And the ones that the buses use like 21st and 22nd

09:16:59 avenues, 15th street, even the bus lane has a few

09:17:06 real slams on it.

09:17:09 And the question, also, is when this water work gets

09:17:14 complete how well the roads are going to be fixed,

09:17:16 because it's going to be very heavy inspection of that,

09:17:20 because that is to a large extent how roads in many of




09:17:23 the cities across the country have deteriorated.

09:17:28 Some big rework of something like some kind of utility

09:17:32 in the street has never been properly fixed.

09:17:36 And these are directions I think should be moved

09:17:41 toward.

09:17:41 (Bell sounds).

09:17:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right, thank you very much.

09:17:45 Anyone else from the public wish to address council?

09:17:47 On any item that's not an item on the agenda or item

09:17:52 that's not on the agenda you may come.

09:17:56 Okay.

09:17:57 No one?

09:17:57 Okay.

09:17:58 Then we'll move to -- yes, sir?

09:18:05 You have to come to the mike.

09:18:06 You have to come to the mike.

09:18:07 Come to the mike.

09:18:08 >> I'm sorry.

09:18:12 Are we here on item number 45?

09:18:17 >> Items on the agenda, sir, unless it's a public

09:18:19 hearing.

09:18:19 If it's a public hearing --




09:18:23 >> Oh, I'm sorry.

09:18:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That's set for 10:30.

09:18:28 And the gentleman who just spoke previously, I

09:18:32 misspoke, sir.

09:18:33 That item that you wanted to talk about looks like it's

09:18:36 number 45, and it's set for 10:30, sometime after 10:30

09:18:40 in the morning.

09:18:41 I had said 9:30 so I apologize.

09:18:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else?

09:18:47 Then we will move to item 2, ordinance being presented

09:18:52 for the first reading consideration.

09:18:54 Councilman Stokes, do you want to read that?

09:19:00 >>CURTIS STOKES: Ordinance being presented for first

09:19:01 reading consideration.

09:19:02 An ordinance amending ordinance 2010-188 passed and

09:19:07 ordained by the City Council of the City of Tampa on

09:19:10 November 18, 2010, which approved a wet zoning 2(APS)

09:19:14 for 19910 Bruce B. Downs Boulevard, changing the

09:19:17 wording from small venue to large venue, providing for

09:19:20 severability, providing an effective date.

09:19:21 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Second.

09:19:25 Can I comment on that?




09:19:28 >> Councilman Miranda already seconded.

09:19:31 >> That's in my district and I wanted to do it.

09:19:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'll withdraw my second.

09:19:35 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Evidently it was a scrivener's

09:19:38 error.

09:19:38 They had a small venue, and wants to be a large venue.

09:19:43 It's a large business.

09:19:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And small and large means five

09:19:47 people and ten people or what?

09:19:49 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I don't know.

09:19:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Oh, I just wanted to clear it up.

09:19:52 >> The bottom line is the big thing.

09:19:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.

09:19:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So he seconds the motion.

09:19:57 So it's seconded by councilman Caetano.

09:20:00 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

09:20:02 Opposes?

09:20:03 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.

09:20:05 Second reading of the ordinance will be held December

09:20:07 16th at 9:30 a.m.

09:20:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Move now to the committee reports.

09:20:13 Councilwoman Miller, public safety.




09:20:16 >> Move resolutions 3 through 13.

09:20:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.

09:20:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Parks and recreation.

09:20:26 Councilman Stokes.

09:20:28 >>CURTIS STOKES: Move items 14 through 20.

09:20:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.

09:20:36 All in favor?

09:20:38 Opposes?

09:20:39 On item 17, that's 63% SLBE.

09:20:48 63% if the backup is correct.

09:20:52 Okay.

09:20:52 Public works.

09:20:53 Councilman Miranda.

09:20:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move item number 21.

09:20:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Capin.

09:21:01 All in favor?

09:21:03 Opposes?

09:21:05 Finance Committee, Councilwoman Mulhern.

09:21:06 >>MARY MULHERN: I move items 22 and 23.

09:21:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.

09:21:14 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

09:21:17 Opposes?




09:21:20 Building and zoning.

09:21:21 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like to move items 24 to

09:21:24 29.

09:21:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And the substitute 26, and also at

09:21:30 this point, I would like for Ms. West to come forward.

09:21:38 This is 160 units, 3.5 million in the Central Park

09:21:43 Encore area.

09:21:43 So Ms. West?

09:21:46 >> Good morning, members.

09:21:49 This is our continued partnership with the Tampa

09:21:51 Housing Authority, and the redevelopment of the former

09:21:54 Central Park Village site, and Encore development.

09:21:57 This will be the first building to be constructed.

09:22:00 The MLU allocates 3.5 million in federal funds for the

09:22:04 construction of 160 units.

09:22:07 The total construction cost is $24.6 million.

09:22:11 The project is already received tax credit allocation

09:22:15 from the Hillsborough County housing finance agency, so

09:22:19 our funding will complete the funding package.

09:22:22 The construction will begin in January 2011, and we

09:22:25 expect leasing will begin early in 2012.

09:22:28 So we are very proud to be a part of this project.




09:22:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And also understand this is for the

09:22:34 seniors.

09:22:35 >> Yes, this is a senior project.

09:22:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So I want to highlight that, that good

09:22:42 project for the county and the city working together,

09:22:46 and a total project cost is 24 million?

09:22:50 >> 24.6 million.

09:22:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 24.6 million.

09:22:54 And the county put up most of that and we put in 3.5

09:22:58 million.

09:23:00 I think that's a very good project.

09:23:02 So Central Park is on the move.

09:23:04 Very good.

09:23:05 Thank you, Ms. West, very much.

09:23:07 It's moved and seconded and we have a substitute for

09:23:10 item 26.

09:23:11 All in favor?

09:23:17 Opposes?

09:23:21 Not quite 9:30 yet for the 9:30 items.

09:23:29 We can move to any new business that anyone has.

09:23:32 Councilman Stokes, any new business?

09:23:35 Councilwoman Mulhern?




09:23:36 >>MARY MULHERN: I do.

09:23:39 I guess I'll just read it.

09:23:41 I would like to ask Mr. Shelby to prepare a resolution

09:23:46 for council on December 16th reestablishing City

09:23:50 Council's citizens advisory Budget and Finance

09:23:52 Committee commencing retroactively from October

09:23:56 1st, 2010 and ending September 30, 2011, and I

09:24:02 would like to ask each of you to appoint, or reappoint,

09:24:09 or if the appointees aren't interested in looking for

09:24:15 this to look for another appointee to do this, because

09:24:18 they are going to be reviewing the current budget as it

09:24:21 goes forward so it would be good if this council gets

09:24:24 people on board there.

09:24:26 And mark Anderson, who is the chair of the board, and

09:24:31 my appointee, has agreed to continue.

09:24:33 So I know that he, at least, will continue to do this.

09:24:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So you want us to submit, I guess, to

09:24:40 you and the clerk names of those appointees?

09:24:45 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, it's up to you how you

09:24:48 wish to do it.

09:24:49 >>MARY MULHERN: It would be great if we could have a

09:24:50 resolution to pass on the 16th, and also have the




09:24:54 appointee's name.

09:24:55 I don't remember if we included their name.

09:24:58 Not that their names --

09:25:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes.

09:25:03 If council members can have their names by next week's

09:25:08 CRA meeting, that will give you a week's time, and I

09:25:12 will be able to do the resolution, put in the names and

09:25:14 follow with the clerk so it will make it to the

09:25:17 December 16th agenda.

09:25:18 >>MARY MULHERN: You can e-mail your appointees' names

09:25:30 to Kristina or me.

09:25:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So if they want they can be

09:25:34 reappointed.

09:25:35 >>MARY MULHERN: If they are interested in doing it,

09:25:38 that would be great.

09:25:39 And I know that Spencer Kass, who was Linda's

09:25:44 appointee, I think is willing to do that again.

09:25:50 I don't remember who John's appointee was.

09:25:54 Councilwoman Capin might have to find someone new.

09:26:00 I don't remember who it is.

09:26:07 I'm sure you can.

09:26:08 >> There's a motion and a second by councilman Miranda.




09:26:14 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

09:26:16 Opposes?

09:26:18 Anything else?

09:26:21 Councilwoman, anything else?

09:26:25 Councilwoman Miller?

09:26:28 Councilwoman Capin?

09:26:31 Okay.

09:26:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You have a memorandum request from

09:26:34 assistant city attorney Rebecca Kert requesting that a

09:26:37 workshop be scheduled to discuss possible changes to

09:26:39 the city's noise ordinance.

09:26:43 And looking at the calendar, I believe --

09:26:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We had that discussion.

09:26:48 The request was for the fourth Thursday in January.

09:26:52 We already have five so my suggestion would be that we

09:26:55 move to the February.

09:26:56 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And you have nothing scheduled yet

09:26:58 but the commendation for the police Officer of the

09:27:01 Month at 9:00.

09:27:05 February 24th then at 9 a.m.?

09:27:08 >> So moved.

09:27:09 >> Second.




09:27:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

09:27:11 All in favor?

09:27:13 Opposes?

09:27:15 Okay.

09:27:17 Any other new business?

09:27:25 Okay.

09:27:34 By the time we swear all the witnesses in, we'll be

09:27:37 right at 9:30.

09:27:38 If you are going to be speaking to council, please

09:27:40 stand at this time and be sworn.

09:27:41 (Oath administered by Clerk)

09:27:49 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, I ask that all written

09:27:51 communications which are relative to today's hearings

09:27:55 that have been available for public inspection in City

09:27:58 Council's office be received and filed into the record

09:27:59 by motion at this time, please.

09:28:01 >> So moved.

09:28:04 >> Second.

09:28:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: A reminder, if you have verbal

09:28:11 communication with any petitioner, his or her

09:28:13 representative or any member of the public in

09:28:15 connection with any of today's hearings, that member of




09:28:19 council should prior to action on that hearing disclose

09:28:21 the person or persons, group or entity with whom the

09:28:23 verbal communication occurred, and the substance of

09:28:25 that verbal communication.

09:28:27 Finally, ladies and gentlemen, there is a sign-up sheet

09:28:31 outside at the lectern, and if you are going to be

09:28:34 speaking, please be sure that you have signed the

09:28:36 sign-in sheet so the clerk does have a record of it.

09:28:40 Thank you very much.

09:28:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

09:28:45 We have two minutes.

09:28:46 Okay.

09:28:47 We moved fast today.

09:28:47 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land Development Coordination.

09:29:06 Chairman Scott, item number 32 required a certified

09:29:09 site plan.

09:29:09 That site plan has been certified and can move to

09:29:12 second reading.

09:29:13 Item 33 had no site plans and no certification was

09:29:16 required.

09:29:17 Other than that, everything for rezoning and special

09:29:19 uses is ready to move forward this morning.




09:29:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

09:29:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: On item 30.

09:29:40 Item 30 was a unanimous vote with councilman Caetano

09:29:46 being absent at the time of that vote.

09:29:50 The clerk has made a notation of that.

09:29:58 Item 30.

09:29:58 I was saying item 30 was a unanimous vote with the

09:30:02 councilman Caetano being absent at the time of that

09:30:04 vote according to the record by the clerk.

09:30:09 And of course this is related to alleyway, vacating of

09:30:16 an alleyway on 22nd street and Emma street.

09:30:20 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And I hear the clock strike 9:30.

09:30:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.

09:30:26 Councilwoman Mulhern, do you want to read item 30?

09:30:33 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to open the public hearings.

09:30:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: On all the 9:30 items.

09:30:37 Moved and seconded.

09:30:38 All in favor?

09:30:39 Opposes?

09:30:40 Anyone from the public wish to address council on item

09:30:43 30?

09:30:43 Item 30.




09:30:44 Anyone wish to address council on item 30?

09:30:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.

09:30:47 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.

09:30:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

09:30:49 All in favor?

09:30:50 Councilwoman Mulhern.

09:30:51 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance presented for

09:30:55 second reading and adoption, an ordinance vacating,

09:30:57 closing, discontinuing, abandoning a certain

09:31:00 right-of-way alleyway lying south of Cayuga street

09:31:03 north of AME street east of 22nd street and west of

09:31:06 24th street in north beauty Heights subdivision in

09:31:08 the City of Tampa, Hillsborough County, Florida, the

09:31:11 same being more fully described in section 2 hereof

09:31:14 subject to certain easements, covenants, conditions and

09:31:17 restrictions as more particularly described herein

09:31:20 providing an effective date.

09:31:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Capin.

09:31:28 Record your vote.

09:31:29 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.

09:31:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 31.

09:31:39 Item 31.




09:31:40 Anyone wish to address council on item 31?

09:31:43 Item 31.

09:31:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.

09:31:47 >> Second.

09:31:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?

09:31:49 Opposes?

09:31:50 Councilman Miranda.

09:31:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move an ordinance presented for

09:31:53 second reading and adoption, an ordinance vacating

09:31:54 closing dis continuing abandoning a certain

09:31:57 right-of-way a portion of Cass Street, Central Avenue

09:32:00 and orange street lying south of Harrison street, north

09:32:02 of Cass Street, east of Pierce Street, and west of

09:32:05 governor street in plan of Newcomb's subdivision, a

09:32:09 portion of Scott street lying south of Kay street, east

09:32:12 of the of orange street, north of Cass Street and west

09:32:15 of governor street in Mobley subdivision, if you find

09:32:19 that location let me know, in the city of Tampa,

09:32:21 Florida, Hillsborough County, Florida, the same being

09:32:24 more fully described in section 2 hereof subject to

09:32:28 certain easements, covenants, conditions and

09:32:30 restrictions as more particularly described herein




09:32:33 providing an effective date.

09:32:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?

09:32:38 Seconded by councilman Stokes.

09:32:42 Record your vote, please.

09:32:43 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Caetano being absent

09:32:49 at vote.

09:32:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 32.

09:32:52 Anyone from the public wish to address council on item

09:32:55 32?

09:32:55 Item 32.

09:32:56 Anyone wish to address council on item 32?

09:32:59 Okay.

09:33:00 Motion?

09:33:02 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.

09:33:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

09:33:06 All in favor?

09:33:07 Opposes?

09:33:07 Councilwoman Miller.

09:33:08 >>GWEN MILLER: I move to adopt the following ordinance

09:33:11 upon second reading.

09:33:12 An ordinance repealing ordinance number 2008-168

09:33:16 approving a special use permit S-2 for alcoholic




09:33:19 beverage sales, small venue and making lawful the sale

09:33:23 of beverages containing alcohol regardless of alcoholic

09:33:26 content, beer, wine and liquor, 4(COP-R), for

09:33:30 consumption on the premises only in connection with a

09:33:32 restaurant business establishment at or from that

09:33:35 certain lot, plot or tract of land locate at 3035-3037

09:33:40 West Kennedy Boulevard, Tampa, Florida, as more

09:33:42 particularly described in section 3 hereof providing

09:33:45 for repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an

09:33:47 effective date.

09:33:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?

09:33:51 Moved and seconded.

09:33:53 Record your vote.

09:33:55 Thank you.

09:33:55 Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.

09:33:57 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda and Capin

09:34:08 voting no, and Caetano being absent at vote.

09:34:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 33. Anyone wish to address

09:34:27 council on item 33?

09:34:29 >> Eunice Butt, American Legion post 167.

09:34:34 I did sign up to speak and I have been sworn in.

09:34:36 I would like to take this time to thank the City




09:34:37 Council, Mrs. Feeley and anyone else that was involved

09:34:42 for the education on this particular zoning.

09:34:46 At this time, we agree, and we go along with the

09:34:50 zoning.

09:34:51 Thank you so much for the education.

09:34:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So everything has been worked out.

09:34:57 Everything explained.

09:34:59 Thank you very much.

09:35:02 And move forward.

09:35:03 Anyone else from the public?

09:35:06 Motion to close?

09:35:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.

09:35:09 >> So moved.

09:35:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

09:35:11 All in favor?

09:35:12 Opposes?

09:35:13 Okay.

09:35:13 Councilwoman Capin.

09:35:16 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you, chairman.

09:35:17 I move ordinance being presented for second reading and

09:35:21 adoption.

09:35:21 An ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity




09:35:23 of 3820 north 53rd street in the City of Tampa and

09:35:29 more particularly described in section 1 from zoning

09:35:31 district classifications RM-16 residential multifamily

09:35:36 to CG commercial general providing an effective date.

09:35:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.

09:35:43 Record your vote, please.

09:35:44 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Caetano being absent

09:35:56 at vote.

09:35:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have more one more under 9:30 and

09:36:03 we move to ten, we are way ahead of schedule.

09:36:06 If administration is listening we can move staff

09:36:08 reports up and take them a little earlier than ten.

09:36:12 Okay.

09:36:13 Item 34.

09:36:15 Item 34.

09:36:16 Anyone wish to address council on item 34?

09:36:23 >>SAL TERRITO: I'm here for number 34 which is a pass

09:36:26 through for Tampa preparatory school, a refunding that

09:36:29 we do on a routine basis for a lot of these

09:36:32 organizations.

09:36:32 We do receive a fee for this and the city doesn't bear

09:36:35 any financial responsibility for the for the payback.




09:36:37 >> Move the resolution.

09:36:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Was there a motion to close the

09:36:46 public hearing?

09:36:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.

09:36:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do we need to close the public hearing?

09:36:51 Okay.

09:36:52 Moved and seconded.

09:36:53 All in favor?

09:36:56 Opposes?

09:36:57 We have a motion by councilman Miranda, seconded by

09:36:59 Councilwoman Mulhern.

09:37:01 All in favor?

09:37:02 Opposes?

09:37:04 Okay.

09:37:08 We will move now to our 10:00 items.

09:37:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Item 35 has been removed from the

09:37:16 agenda.

09:37:17 Item 36 is a ministerial item regarding council

09:37:23 authorizing the use of the city seal.

09:37:24 That's a resolution.

09:37:25 We can move the resolution.

09:37:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.




09:37:29 >> Second.

09:37:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

09:37:31 All in favor?

09:37:32 Opposes?

09:37:33 Okay.

09:37:45 While the deputy chief is here we'll take up those

09:37:53 items related to, I believe, 34th street and

09:37:57 Chelsea.

09:37:58 Do you want to come forward, chief?

09:38:00 >> Marc Hamlin, assistant chief of police on behalf of

09:38:09 the police department.

09:38:10 In regards to the fatality accident at 34th and

09:38:13 Chelsea, on September 2nd, 2010, our criminal

09:38:17 investigation is complete, and we forwarded our

09:38:20 findings to the state attorney's office.

09:38:24 And had some discussion was them.

09:38:25 However, we are waiting for a decision from them as far

09:38:27 as the criminal case is concerned.

09:38:29 We hope to get that decision the next couple of weeks.

09:38:31 I can't really comment publicly or release any intimate

09:38:35 details which may compromise the investigation.

09:38:37 I can tell you that our detectives found no defect in




09:38:40 the intersection or in the road conditions which are

09:38:43 contributing causes to the crash.

09:38:44 And I know that was one of the concerns of the council.

09:38:47 Our detectives believe that the crash was due solely to

09:38:50 contribute being causes of human factors, not the

09:38:53 intersection.

09:38:55 Unfortunately, it wouldn't be fair to the families of

09:38:57 the deceased and for the judicial process for me to

09:39:01 comment any further.

09:39:03 If you have any questions I can answer them maybe one

09:39:05 on one through a phone call or anything like that

09:39:08 unless they are just general questions.

09:39:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions by council?

09:39:12 So pretty much, pending from the state attorney

09:39:19 investigation and whether they are going to file

09:39:21 charges.

09:39:22 >> And this is a public meeting.

09:39:24 Anything we say can be used in a criminal case and I

09:39:26 wouldn't want to compromise that right now but I can

09:39:29 talk to you guys one on one if there are any questions.

09:39:31 But I can say our detectives have no issue with the

09:39:34 intersection or anything that contributed physically




09:39:37 from the intersection to the crash.

09:39:39 Solely human factor.

09:39:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.

09:39:46 >>> Happy holidays.

09:39:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You too.

09:39:53 Okay.

09:39:54 Item 37.

09:40:05 It had to do with the schedule of fees for the park.

09:40:11 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Administrator for public works,

09:40:13 utility services.

09:40:14 I know you all are aware of our financial situation in

09:40:17 the parking division.

09:40:20 Awhile back you approved a resolution that allowed to

09:40:24 us charge special fees for reserved parking.

09:40:27 And that's gone really well in the Fort Brooke garage.

09:40:31 This resolution would allow us to do that in other

09:40:34 garages where there's a demand for again reserved

09:40:38 parking and be reserved for 24 hours.

09:40:41 Again, we have a higher fee just for that reserve

09:40:43 parking.

09:40:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Are there also other fees for people

09:40:50 who don't want 24-7, right?




09:40:54 There was a list of them.

09:40:55 >>> No other of our fees are changing as far as the

09:40:59 amount people are paying.

09:41:01 There's some time changes here.

09:41:02 >> And a $20 fee for something, so fort, I guess the

09:41:09 parking increases.

09:41:11 >>> Yes, sir.

09:41:12 Predominantly the only thing that's significantly

09:41:14 changing in here is again allowing us to charge that

09:41:17 reserve fee.

09:41:20 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: What's going to be the

09:41:24 anticipated increase in reserve fees and how much

09:41:27 revenue do you anticipate?

09:41:29 >>> Well, we are not planning to do it in all of the

09:41:31 garages at one time, because it's mostly downtown and

09:41:34 not some of the other garages.

09:41:37 So we are going to have to see what the demand would

09:41:39 be.

09:41:40 This might be something in the order of magnitude of a

09:41:43 couple of hundred thousand dollars a year.

09:41:46 Again it's not going to fix our budget, but it will be

09:41:48 a help in that enter praise fund.




09:41:52 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Thank you.

09:41:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?

09:41:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Move the resolution.

09:41:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.

09:41:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

09:42:01 Motion by Councilwoman Miller, second by councilman

09:42:04 Miranda.

09:42:04 All in favor?

09:42:06 Opposes?

09:42:07 Item 39 on MacDill.

09:42:18 >>JEAN DORZBACK: Transportation manager.

09:42:20 I have got a 51-page document that I would like to

09:42:25 provide you, if that's okay.

09:42:43 We had a number of conversations and meetings regarding

09:42:47 traffic issues in the area particularly as it relates

09:42:52 to the gate at MacDill Air Force Base, and thought

09:42:55 it might be helpful to just summarize actions that have

09:42:59 been taken over the last year to look at means to

09:43:06 mitigate the situation down there in terms of traffic,

09:43:10 and also per council motion to summarize the

09:43:15 communication, the works that we have done with

09:43:17 MacDill Air Force Base personnel.




09:43:19 So if you kind of look on the left hand column of this

09:43:23 document -- I know you are just receiving it --

09:43:26 basically, that's a summary of the action we have taken

09:43:30 through coordination with the MacDill Air Force

09:43:33 personnel to make some adjustments, to try to minimize

09:43:38 wait times and minimize other issues as relates to

09:43:40 traffic congestion.

09:43:42 Just in summary, you can see we have done a number of

09:43:45 studies, and we have adjusted signal timings at the

09:43:49 signals.

09:43:50 We have put signage up to address cut-through traffic,

09:43:54 gotten some positive comments back from the community

09:43:56 as far as that goes.

09:43:57 We have adjusted our truck route signage, also got

09:44:01 positive feedback from the community on that.

09:44:05 We have applied through planning and growth management

09:44:08 department a couple of grants that are going to allow

09:44:11 for increase load through this gate because of the

09:44:15 security measures that will be modified.

09:44:17 We had a recent stormwater project to reroute the

09:44:22 traffic in the area, as the portion of Bayshore was

09:44:25 closed, and we saw as evidence from that project, and




09:44:27 we certainly need that Bayshore gate to stay open, and

09:44:30 it was a good experiment for us to make some changes to

09:44:34 some of the signal timings, to allow for the traffic,

09:44:39 to continue flow during that construction.

09:44:41 Construction is complete now, and the project is done.

09:44:44 We also have funding in our capital budget for next

09:44:47 year, for a road improvement that will make some

09:44:52 improvements for congestion that occurs on Interbay

09:44:56 Boulevard as traffic is trying to get over to the gate

09:45:02 which opened up last year, and the MacDill

09:45:06 personnel in monitoring that in different measurement

09:45:10 and have given us a lot of positive feedback as far as

09:45:12 how that gate has reduced the weight times on Bayshore

09:45:18 and how they have improved their traffic flow through

09:45:20 that gate, through their modification of their security

09:45:22 checking there.

09:45:24 And finally, they have had a lot of success with their

09:45:27 flextime program.

09:45:28 They have got employees coming in between the hours of

09:45:32 6 a.m. and 9 a.m. now, and that has significantly had

09:45:36 an impact on the wait times as people are coming in

09:45:39 over a longer period of time in the morning.




09:45:41 So again, this is a summary of our work that we will

09:45:45 continue with in the MacDill group, and we have

09:45:48 seen a lot of positive outcomes thus far.

09:45:50 If you have any questions, I would be glad to take

09:45:53 those.

09:45:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, let me just thank you for the

09:45:55 time that you put in, and for the attention that you

09:45:58 have given to this, as we raise the issue, and it's

09:46:02 obvious that you have been working on it, and certainly

09:46:04 council really appreciates that.

09:46:12 As well as the capital projects for next year.

09:46:14 So these very good.

09:46:15 Okay.

09:46:16 Steve, did you want to add anything?

09:46:21 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I'm here on behalf of the Diacco

09:46:24 family.

09:46:24 The issues that we talked about -- and Jean and I

09:46:28 talked about this briefly -- were to explore the

09:46:30 opportunity of a queuing lane of some kind at the

09:46:34 Bayshore gate, whether it's inside, or along the side

09:46:38 of Bayshore.

09:46:39 There's not a lot of right-of-way available, but one of




09:46:43 the grants is going to look at that.

09:46:45 Is that true?

09:46:45 >> Actually, the grant won't look at that.

09:46:49 We have done a fairly brief concept look at that

09:46:53 suggestion, and because the right-of-way as Steve

09:46:57 mentioned, and also with some bridge structures that

09:47:00 are out there along Bayshore, at this time we don't see

09:47:03 that as a cost feasible project.

09:47:04 We can go forward with.

09:47:07 We would like to continue on these other projects that

09:47:10 I mentioned and see what positive result we get through

09:47:14 those, and it may be that these other modifications to

09:47:18 the gate that the grant has proposed will offset the

09:47:22 need for a queue along the Bayshore there.

09:47:25 >>STEVE MICHELINI: If they are going to route traffic

09:47:28 through Interbay Boulevard, there are stop signs

09:47:31 between Bayshore and Dale Mabry.

09:47:36 They are trying to expedite traffic going to the west,

09:47:40 that we should probably look at those stop signs and

09:47:43 consider either changing them or eliminating them as

09:47:45 well.

09:47:46 We would like to be kept advised of the actions that




09:47:49 are being taken place that will help to mitigate this

09:47:53 traffic problem, and we'll continue working with the

09:47:56 transportation department.

09:47:57 Perhaps in 60 days to come back and give us another

09:48:00 idea of whether these measures are working.

09:48:03 Since the stormwater programs that was tying up traffic

09:48:07 will be gone, and also perhaps look at some of the

09:48:10 traffic counts on that south Bayshore section.

09:48:15 To see if it's working or not.

09:48:20 >>JEAN DORZBACK: Well, I can say as far as some of

09:48:21 these recommendations that we made are more longer term

09:48:26 than 60 days.

09:48:27 The grants, we haven't heard back whether we are

09:48:30 getting funding for the grants or funding for the road

09:48:32 project, in our next year's budget.

09:48:34 So we would certainly continue our conversations with

09:48:37 Mr. Michelini, and of course the base.

09:48:40 I don't know if we will be able to come back in 60 days

09:48:43 with anything significant.

09:48:47 Maybe contact council when we have something more

09:48:51 meaningful to provide would be the best.

09:48:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, you kept me informed and briefed




09:48:56 me.

09:48:57 So why don't I suggest in 60 days at least send a

09:49:04 report to me and keep me abreast, apprised.

09:49:07 >> Definitely we would like to be informed on that.

09:49:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So just pretty much a report in 60

09:49:16 days before council, I guess, probably would be in

09:49:18 order.

09:49:20 Is that sufficient?

09:49:21 Even if you don't have anything, at least we, there

09:49:27 seems to be a lot of interest into Bayshore and making

09:49:30 sure.

09:49:30 You have done a great job.

09:49:33 I have to commend you for what you have done, and I

09:49:35 really appreciate you briefing me a couple of weeks ago

09:49:39 before you got sick.

09:49:42 >>JEAN DORZBACK: Yes.

09:49:43 Sorry about that.

09:49:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Given the background information has

09:49:45 been very helpful.

09:49:47 So I just want to say thank you and commend you for

09:49:51 what you have done, and so the motion will be just come

09:49:53 back, you know, with whatever report you have, keep us




09:49:58 kind of up to date.

09:50:00 Okay.

09:50:05 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Ms. Dorzback, I also want to thank you.

09:50:07 I was briefed on all the projects.

09:50:08 And as someone driving Bayshore every day, I've noticed

09:50:13 the difference very much.

09:50:15 As far as Interbay and stop signs, there's residents

09:50:20 along Interbay.

09:50:21 So I would look at that of the residents along Interbay

09:50:29 as far as that's concerned.

09:50:31 Again, thank you.

09:50:33 It's an excellent job.

09:50:35 I look forward to the report.

09:50:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, there's a motion to report back

09:50:41 in 60 days.

09:50:43 Moved and seconded.

09:50:44 >> Who seconded?

09:50:47 >> Councilwoman Capin.

09:50:49 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

09:50:51 Opposes?

09:50:51 Thank you very much, Ms. Dorzback.

09:50:55 I think you are also here on 41.




09:50:58 >>JEAN DORZBACK: Yes, I am.

09:50:59 And I believe you all received this memo previously,

09:51:04 but I just wanted to have it available again in case it

09:51:07 wasn't in your packet.

09:51:08 I don't know.

09:51:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, that's fine.

09:51:11 >> Yes, there is a request to report back on our

09:51:23 walk-by plan that is actually being conducted by the

09:51:26 MPO, the metropolitan planning organization.

09:51:31 It's actually a plan, not just a study, and the plan

09:51:34 got kicked off in September, being funded by the MPO

09:51:39 and they are keeping us in as a strong partner on the

09:51:42 project.

09:51:43 Basically, the product that we are looking for, to come

09:51:47 out of this, is a list of projects, bicycle improvement

09:51:51 projects, that will either be proposed through a

09:51:55 complete street upgrade or possibly a stand-alone

09:51:59 project.

09:51:59 And we have a number of stakeholders that have already

09:52:02 been contacted and interviewed that are listed on your

09:52:08 memorandum there.

09:52:09 We will have additional public meetings before the




09:52:12 project is complete or the plan is complete, which is

09:52:16 scheduled to be March of this coming year.

09:52:19 There's a Web site on the metropolitan planning

09:52:22 organization for anyone in the general public that

09:52:24 would like to be involved, or make comments.

09:52:28 The issues, concerns, or projects that they think

09:52:31 should be considered.

09:52:32 Because of funding being somewhat limited, we are

09:52:36 starting out with focusing on our three major growth

09:52:39 areas, which are USF, Westshore, and the downtown, and

09:52:44 our hope is to expand the next phase as planned to look

09:52:48 at those other additional areas in the growth areas.

09:52:52 So we are expecting to have a product in March that

09:52:55 will have a listing of actual projects that we can

09:52:59 implement through either our complete streets or

09:53:01 possibly a stand-alone project.

09:53:03 >> And the funding through the federal government in

09:53:08 terms of the neighborhood stabilization program.

09:53:11 Anything of that nature will be available?

09:53:12 >> Part of what we'll do under this plan is to look at

09:53:15 different funding opportunities.

09:53:17 The challenge we have with bicycle projects is there's




09:53:20 not a dedicated fund source per se.

09:53:24 So we have to be somewhat creative and look for

09:53:27 opportunities through mainly roadway projects,

09:53:31 including other bigger projects.

09:53:33 So we will be looking at trying to come up with some

09:53:35 newer fund sources for these type projects.

09:53:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What about money coming through the

09:53:41 MPO?

09:53:42 >> The MPO is interested in putting their sources on

09:53:48 bicycle projects.

09:53:49 Again they have to do these as the money comes along

09:53:54 but they want to make these priority projects.

09:53:56 >>MARY MULHERN: We are working with the livable

09:54:01 roadways committee with the MPO to create a bicycle

09:54:04 safety --

09:54:07 >> Action plan.

09:54:08 >> The action plan, right.

09:54:10 So we are had working on it from that level.

09:54:12 But I want to suggest to you -- and I will do this at

09:54:15 the MPO, also -- but Ray LaHood, the secretary of

09:54:20 transportation is very committed to bicycles.

09:54:22 So I think there probably are grants available from




09:54:27 somewhere in transportation.

09:54:28 There's going to be federal grants available for this.

09:54:30 So really, you know, whoever you can get on your staff

09:54:32 to do some research and see what's out there, and maybe

09:54:38 reach out to Kathy Castor's office or Bill Nelson and

09:54:42 see what's out there.

09:54:45 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Again, any part of this having to do,

09:54:54 or in the future with education for the vehicles, the

09:54:59 drivers as far as watching out for the bicyclists, you

09:55:05 know, just what exactly?

09:55:08 Is there anything in the -- that you are looking at, or

09:55:11 that --

09:55:14 >>JEAN DORZBACK: Yes, that is very important and a very

09:55:17 key issue.

09:55:17 The bicycle safety action plan that Councilwoman

09:55:22 Mulhern mentioned, we just had our first workshop on

09:55:25 Monday, and the one of the purposes of that plan is to

09:55:29 come up with strategies for engineering and enforcement

09:55:34 and education, the three E's, as they call it, to see

09:55:38 what can be done to improve safety for pedestrians and

09:55:41 bicyclists, and of course that would involve education

09:55:43 on both sides.




09:55:45 So through that bicycle safety action plan, that will

09:55:48 be addressed.

09:55:49 This particular plan, this walk-bike plan is sort of a

09:55:55 subset of the other action plan which was recently

09:55:57 directed by the BOCC and this council to undertake.

09:56:01 So this is a subset of that, to actually come up with

09:56:04 some physical projects that we can start put something

09:56:07 resources on and start building.

09:56:10 So this would be an engineering piece that would be

09:56:13 part of the bigger action plan that will be coming out

09:56:15 sometime early next year.

09:56:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?

09:56:22 Thank you very much.

09:56:23 Thank you very much.

09:56:29 We move to item 40.

09:56:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I saw Ms. Cole here.

09:56:38 I'll see if she's outside.

09:56:51 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.

09:56:52 I have presented council with an ordinance which would

09:56:58 codify the previous notice provisions which I had

09:57:01 submitted to you, and we had workshops.

09:57:04 I want to say about six weeks ago.




09:57:07 And in addition to that, actually consolidate each of

09:57:13 the notice requirements in each separate portion of the

09:57:17 code into one section of the code which is why this

09:57:19 ordinance seems so large, because as I was going

09:57:21 through this process, we had been restating notice

09:57:24 requirements in a variety of different sections of

09:57:26 code.

09:57:27 So in essence, it seems like a much larger ordinance.

09:57:31 It really is simply just taking everything and

09:57:34 consolidating it.

09:57:35 While I was going through that process, I saw a couple

09:57:38 places where we used appeal.

09:57:40 I changed that over to review because that's our new

09:57:42 process and a couple of minor scrivener type changes.

09:57:48 I thought we could get those cleaned up as well.

09:57:51 I committed submitted to you a bullet point of the

09:57:56 changes.

09:57:56 The only thing I can say for benefit of City Council

09:57:58 and benefit of the public among the largest change is

09:58:01 one in which we create a category for good neighbor

09:58:07 notice, participating organizations, which would be

09:58:09 inclusive of both the officially registered




09:58:11 neighborhood associations that today, as well as the

09:58:15 opportunity for other organizations to register online

09:58:19 to receive notice.

09:58:20 It is going to take a period of time for our I.T. folks

09:58:25 to get that portion up and running.

09:58:26 So per this ordinance, the portion of the participating

09:58:31 organization for those newly registered organizations

09:58:34 won't go into effect until March 31st, 2011.

09:58:39 So all applications filed after March 31st, 2011,

09:58:45 will be obligated to also notice these newly registered

09:58:48 participating organizations, and until that time, it

09:58:50 will really not be any different than what they are

09:58:56 doing right now.

09:58:57 If you have any questions I am happy to answer them.

09:58:59 I had brought this to you.

09:59:00 You can read the ordinance today at first reading, go

09:59:03 ahead and set second reading, or if you would like to

09:59:05 just go ahead and put this on your next agenda for

09:59:07 first reading.

09:59:08 I'll leave that up to City Council.

09:59:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This addresses the whole incident of

09:59:13 the public notice in Channelside so hopefully this




09:59:16 won't happen in the future with these changes.

09:59:18 >>JULIA COLE: Yes.

09:59:19 And for everybody's benefit the more significant change

09:59:22 that we have made is to identify specifically what list

09:59:27 is used for the purpose of notice and also that failure

09:59:32 to have proper notice in the land use.

09:59:36 Again I'm available for any questions.

09:59:37 >>MARY MULHERN: I think this is a very good change,

09:59:43 especially making it consistent.

09:59:46 And my question is -- because I think there are a lot

09:59:50 of organizations out there that are -- our list is

09:59:54 actually pretty small of the recognized neighborhood

09:59:56 associations.

09:59:57 So if they are going to be from education, some notice

10:00:04 about the opportunity, you know, in all the

10:00:08 publications that the city, you know, co-sponsors and

10:00:11 everything, to let the neighborhoods know, that there

10:00:16 is going to be now an opportunity to register online.

10:00:20 That's my question.

10:00:21 It's probably for -- maybe not for legal, but for --

10:00:28 >>JULIA COLE: The administration was very involved in

10:00:29 the concept of going ahead and creating the opportunity




10:00:32 for an online list, and we talked with them about

10:00:35 maybe --

10:00:36 >>MARY MULHERN: Maybe neighborhood services could do

10:00:38 this.

10:00:38 That would be a really good thing.

10:00:40 Okay.

10:00:40 Thanks, Julia.

10:00:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So we need to put it on for first

10:00:47 reading.

10:00:47 >>MARY MULHERN: First reading at our next regular

10:00:49 council meeting.

10:00:50 >> Second.

10:00:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The 16th, the first reading.

10:00:54 Moved and seconded.

10:00:55 That's the motion by Councilwoman Mulhern, seconded by

10:00:59 Councilwoman Capin.

10:01:00 All in favor?

10:01:01 Opposes?

10:01:03 Okay.

10:01:04 Item 42.

10:01:07 Mr. Fletcher?

10:01:09 Somebody from legal?




10:01:15 I'm sorry, Mr. Huey from economic.

10:01:19 >>MARK HUEY: Economic development.

10:01:20 Item 42 concerns the discussion the council had a

10:01:24 number of weeks ago about assisting small businesses,

10:01:28 possibly through assisting with lending.

10:01:30 I know council is always sensitive to the plight of

10:01:35 small businesses, and certainly that discussion

10:01:36 reflected your interest in supporting small businesses.

10:01:41 I can tell you it's a very dynamic environment, and it

10:01:45 has been for small businesses since the recession

10:01:47 occurred.

10:01:49 When the recession occurred and credit markets

10:01:52 tightened, the availability of credit to small

10:01:54 businesses was significantly cut off.

10:01:57 You should be aware the federal government did step in

10:02:01 in a very significant way through the Small Business

10:02:03 Administration, and they provided through the federal

10:02:06 stimulus program a 90% backing of small business loans,

10:02:12 so they assumed 90% of the risk.

10:02:14 Again, in an effort to stimulate small business

10:02:16 lending.

10:02:17 It was very successful until it expired in May.




10:02:21 And so since around May 31st, credit for small

10:02:24 businesses really dropped off.

10:02:27 The good news for small businesses is that it got

10:02:30 reinstituted, because of an outcry from small

10:02:32 businesses around the country, the program was put back

10:02:35 in place.

10:02:36 It's been in place since October but expires again in

10:02:39 December.

10:02:41 That has been the major public participation in lending

10:02:46 for small businesses.

10:02:49 The City of Tampa at one time had a program in this

10:02:52 arena.

10:02:55 I wasn't here then.

10:02:57 I'm trying to gather up a little bit of information

10:02:59 about that.

10:03:02 It was funded through federal moneys, not through local

10:03:06 taxpayer moneys.

10:03:07 And I know that is a concern.

10:03:11 Certainly our legal department has shared some initial

10:03:14 observations about some concerns that we would like to

10:03:17 research about whether the general fund proceeds could

10:03:20 be used to back or support in any way small business




10:03:25 lending.

10:03:25 I can tell you some CRAs around the state have some

10:03:31 small business lending programmings.

10:03:32 We actually, before the TIF revenues in East Tampa

10:03:36 declined, looked at doing one in East Tampa.

10:03:38 CRA funding has more flexibility than the general fund.

10:03:43 Beyond that, there are many players in our community

10:03:46 who are involved in trying to help small businesses

10:03:49 with lending.

10:03:50 And you are familiar with many of them.

10:03:53 TEDCO, black business investment corporation, many

10:03:57 different intermediaries in our market, neighborhood

10:04:01 lending partners, a lot of organizations working with

10:04:04 private banks to try to provide credit.

10:04:07 So we are familiar with the issue.

10:04:10 We are familiar we've the dynamics and would be glad to

10:04:12 support council in any way they see fit and looking at

10:04:17 the matter further.

10:04:18 >> Let me just say this was brought to us by councilman

10:04:27 Stokes and I said at that time I would support it for

10:04:31 information.

10:04:32 However, I wanted us to move cautiously.




10:04:37 In my discussion with legal there are some concerns

10:04:38 that they have.

10:04:39 My suggestion would be that we put it on for a

10:04:43 workshop, and more discussion, but I am concerned

10:04:47 because first of all in terms of ad valorem, we don't

10:04:50 have any -- we took what was it, 12 million.

10:04:55 >> 19 million.

10:04:57 >> 19 million out of reserves this year.

10:05:00 Make sure we have a deficit -- a shortfall.

10:05:03 So I don't know where the money would come.

10:05:05 And the projection is it's going to be worse this

10:05:07 coming fiscal year.

10:05:08 >> Right.

10:05:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So there's an issue relative to legal

10:05:12 that has a concern about.

10:05:14 But if councilman Stokes' workshop, I'm open to that to

10:05:20 listen to all parties, but I do want to be very careful

10:05:23 with this, because of the fact, I don't know the money,

10:05:28 where it's going to come from.

10:05:30 Then when you get into local government doing the

10:05:32 lending these loans, other than what we did through the

10:05:35 CRA was the facade, the facade.




10:05:40 You can do that based on the statute.

10:05:42 >>MARK HUEY: Right.

10:05:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here I have a little concern on that.

10:05:49 >>CURTIS STOKES: Thank you, councilman Scott.

10:05:52 I would support any workshop to further study this.

10:05:56 But in the absence of tightening credit, the tightening

10:06:02 credit environment by banks, I think the city should

10:06:05 step in and assist those small business owners, as they

10:06:12 get out of the terrible economic situation we have been

10:06:14 in for the past three or four years, and the board has

10:06:18 in entered into this arena with microlending to assist

10:06:21 some of those businesses.

10:06:22 The BBIC and they do a fantastic job of assistance, but

10:06:31 in the absence of private investment sometimes it's

10:06:34 necessary for government to step in to assist us in the

10:06:37 small businesses.

10:06:38 But I thank you very much, Reverend Scott.

10:06:40 I do appreciate the opportunity to do this in a

10:06:42 workshop.

10:06:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.

10:06:45 I think this is an honorable request and so forth and

10:06:48 so on by councilman Stokes.




10:06:51 The problem is, I was here when this happened the first

10:06:54 time.

10:06:54 Let me tell you what happened, to my limited memory.

10:07:02 You had HUD that gave money to the city to do some of

10:07:06 these things.

10:07:07 Then you had the SBA that was guaranteed by banks.

10:07:14 The moneys dried up.

10:07:15 The banks are not loaning money.

10:07:17 So the banks are not giving money based on the

10:07:20 creditworthiness of the applicant.

10:07:22 How is are the taxpayers going to be responsible for

10:07:24 that?

10:07:26 What happened is this.

10:07:28 A lot of the money went into two areas mainly.

10:07:30 Facade program to Spruce up and make the city look good

10:07:34 which in the long run saves the taxpayers money because

10:07:37 you don't have rundown neighborhoods and rundown

10:07:41 looking businesses where everybody tries to avoid, and

10:07:44 therefore you have deterioration of that area.

10:07:47 And more importantly, a lot of that money went into

10:07:51 fixtures, computers, equipment, and lighting; air

10:07:57 conditioning.




10:08:00 If the loan went bad -- and some did -- they had no

10:08:04 value.

10:08:04 So you had an outstanding loan, where at the time you

10:08:09 gave the loan you had a collapsing value of the assets.

10:08:13 But now the assets have depreciated and the loan is

10:08:16 still there, so therefore the public will become

10:08:19 responsible for that.

10:08:20 And that's what I'm looking at.

10:08:23 Certainly the small business, as most of the city is

10:08:28 blessed, that we don't have many businesses that got 8,

10:08:31 10, 15, 20,000, because when the recession hits like

10:08:34 now they are the first ones to lay off a lot of people.

10:08:37 This whole area is made up mainly of small businesses,

10:08:39 and therefore, although we get hard hit hard like we

10:08:43 are now, it takes a little longer for that to hit, and

10:08:47 has hit us.

10:08:48 So, therefore, I would be very hesitant to support

10:08:51 this.

10:08:53 I'm not opposed to having a workshop.

10:08:54 But I would doubt if I will support it by using

10:08:57 taxpayers moneys.

10:08:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else?




10:09:03 Councilman Stokes, do you want a workshop?

10:09:07 >>CURTIS STOKES: Yes.

10:09:07 I would make a motion we create a workshop.

10:09:13 February.

10:09:14 >>MARK HUEY: And we will be glad to help coordinate

10:09:17 some of the intermediaries and maybe some of the

10:09:20 banking institutions.

10:09:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: To facilitate that.

10:09:24 Again, as I stated earlier, I'm with in Mr. Miranda, I

10:09:28 don't have a problem getting information at a workshop.

10:09:30 But I will move very cautiously.

10:09:35 >>MARK HUEY: I understand.

10:09:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: With the limited resources.

10:09:39 There's a motion and second.

10:09:40 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

10:09:42 Opposes?

10:09:43 >>THE CLERK: What time would that be?

10:09:45 >> we just set one for 9:00.

10:09:52 So 9:30.

10:09:55 >>THE CLERK: 9:30?

10:09:59 >>CURTIS STOKES: Thanks, mark.

10:10:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have one other AME 10:30 and that's




10:10:03 the TECO item.

10:10:05 Is someone here to address that, and legal?

10:10:13 >> They are here.

10:10:14 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: City attorney.

10:10:20 Based on your memo, we went back and looked at this

10:10:25 issue.

10:10:26 Essentially, we have a franchise agreement with TECO

10:10:31 that basically says to get whatever permits we would be

10:10:36 required to get under our normal permitting processes.

10:10:38 And in this case the permits that would have been

10:10:43 required for replacement of a power distribution

10:10:50 system, right-of-way permits, these permits were

10:10:52 pulled.

10:10:54 They were issued by the right-of-way permitting

10:10:56 department within transportation.

10:10:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Fletcher, let me interrupt because

10:11:05 you and I had a discussion yesterday in my office.

10:11:09 Council, I received e-mails, relative to the issue, and

10:11:13 I talked with Mr. Fletcher about it.

10:11:16 I guess my question is again given that Ybor City is a

10:11:21 historic district, why wasn't there a hearing with the

10:11:25 Barrio Latino commission relative to this issue?




10:11:28 As you know we had a similar problem with the HCC

10:11:31 building.

10:11:32 So do you want to get to that, if you don't mind?

10:11:38 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: That's where I was headed.

10:11:40 We do have a code provision that suggests pretty

10:11:46 clearly that the Howard facility would go to the

10:11:52 Barrio.

10:11:53 However, not similar to HCC, there is an exemption

10:11:59 from -- in Teco's case it's much broader than HCC --

10:12:05 exemption from land development regulations for power

10:12:08 transmission and distribution systems.

10:12:12 So in this case, we would be preempted on that

10:12:15 particular issue.

10:12:18 We do have the authority to control the placement in

10:12:21 the right-of-way.

10:12:21 We do have the authority to control the time and manner

10:12:28 of construction.

10:12:28 But in terms of the zoning and other types of things

10:12:33 that would be in our land development regulations, we

10:12:36 are preempted on that issue, in chapter 1363 and

10:12:40 chapter 380.

10:12:42 So that would be the reason why they did not go to the




10:12:47 BLC for hearing prior.

10:12:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: By Florida statute?

10:12:54 >> That's correct.

10:12:55 It's slightly different from HCC.

10:12:57 HCC still has to comply with our zoning regulations,

10:13:00 but they don't have to meet our building construction

10:13:03 regulations, which is a slightly different issue than

10:13:07 HCC but the same general issue.

10:13:11 >>MARY MULHERN: The city -- our franchise agreement

10:13:23 with TECO, what is the city's role in a big project

10:13:29 like this?

10:13:29 Was the city notified?

10:13:31 When was the city notified?

10:13:33 >> The city, I don't know when they were notified.

10:13:35 But as required --

10:13:38 >> We are the city, right?

10:13:41 >> Pardon?

10:13:42 >>MARY MULHERN: You said "they."

10:13:45 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Let me kind of get to write was

10:13:47 going with that.

10:13:48 What our clear jurisdiction under our Cote code, under

10:13:52 state law and our franchise agreement, is in the




10:13:54 right-of-way, use of the right-of-way.

10:13:59 I am don't know when it happened but there was a

10:14:01 right-of-way permit that was applied for.

10:14:04 That, I believe, was issued, and TECO is here.

10:14:07 They can probably give you exact dates.

10:14:09 I believe that was issued over the summer.

10:14:11 So sometime before that, the permit would have been

10:14:14 applied, would have been the first communication,

10:14:17 formal communication with the city on that issue.

10:14:23 And then they can speak to what other kind of

10:14:26 communications they had during that process.

10:14:28 But that was the point in time where the city as a

10:14:30 whole would have formally been notified of the types of

10:14:33 placements, the scope of the project, and the size of

10:14:37 the poles being placed.

10:14:40 All of those things would have been in that

10:14:41 application.

10:14:42 >> Okay.

10:14:46 So a right-of-way application to the city, is that

10:14:50 approved by the council, also?

10:14:52 Did we approve that?

10:14:54 >> I don't believe those were approved by council.




10:14:58 >> That doesn't have to be approved by council?

10:15:00 >> I don't believe so.

10:15:01 >> Okay.

10:15:02 So if that's the case, and that's the way it has to be

10:15:05 based on the Florida statute, it seems to me that it

10:15:12 becomes the city's, the administration's

10:15:14 responsibility, to let the neighborhood residents,

10:15:19 businesses, and especially in a historic district, know

10:15:23 what is coming.

10:15:24 And that's what's disturbing about this to me, is that

10:15:28 everyone was surprised by it.

10:15:30 And, you know, it's happened before in other

10:15:36 neighborhoods, and there was such big outcry about it.

10:15:42 So whatever is required of TECO by law is what they are

10:15:46 going to do.

10:15:47 But our responsibility to our neighborhoods, especially

10:15:51 our historic neighborhoods, we need to take seriously.

10:15:54 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: If I may, there was some

10:15:58 additional outreach that TECO did voluntarily following

10:16:00 the procedures that we do have in place for larger

10:16:04 facilities that came up, I believe after the Egypt lake

10:16:09 problem.




10:16:10 So for larger facilities, there is a more elaborate

10:16:15 public participation process.

10:16:20 My understanding of what occurred, it's very similar to

10:16:23 that process so I believe they followed a similar type

10:16:26 of process in this case, and TECO can speak to how many

10:16:29 letters they mailed out in the meetings they had, and

10:16:32 those types of things.

10:16:33 >> Right, I know.

10:16:35 And we are going to hear from TECO in a minute.

10:16:37 I'm talking to you as our city attorney.

10:16:39 And my feeling that this council has, you know, doesn't

10:16:47 get to weigh in on these kinds of permits.

10:16:49 So there's not much we can do.

10:16:51 But the administration does see those permits, should

10:16:55 be looking at how that's going to affect the

10:16:58 neighborhood, and the city needs to be letting the

10:17:01 neighborhoods know, too.

10:17:06 So I think that really needs to happen.

10:17:08 And I would like to hear -- it does seem to be

10:17:15 something that's been occurring with Ybor City, in

10:17:20 different types of issues.

10:17:22 I mean, I know this is different than the HCC thing,




10:17:25 but there's other parking issues, road issues, things

10:17:31 like that where it keeps kind of bypassing the people

10:17:38 that are really in charge of protecting the historic

10:17:41 district.

10:17:41 So I think it's the city's responsibility to do

10:17:44 something about it.

10:17:45 And I also think -- I mean, I don't know, this is a

10:17:49 legal question for you.

10:17:51 As far as the Florida statute, statewide any utility

10:18:02 does not have to abide by local zoning?

10:18:09 Is that restriction or is this something we have here

10:18:12 in Tampa and Hillsborough County?

10:18:14 >> It is not unique to Tampa.

10:18:15 It is statewide.

10:18:16 Essentially the chapter 1363, which is the chapter that

10:18:21 governs comp plans and development regulations, land

10:18:25 development orders, exempts from the definition of

10:18:28 development utility lines, transmission lines and

10:18:33 distribution lines.

10:18:34 So it takes it out of that regulatory purview.

10:18:40 Essentially, that's how that --

10:18:42 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, what about in historic




10:18:44 districts?

10:18:46 Is there an opportunity for some, you know, legislative

10:18:51 change we could ask for in Tallahassee that would, you

10:18:57 know, at least make the -- at the very least make the

10:19:03 notice process?

10:19:06 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: We may be able to expand the

10:19:09 notice process locally.

10:19:10 We probably could that in terms of the right-of-way

10:19:13 permitting process.

10:19:14 I can take a look at that.

10:19:15 We did go back.

10:19:16 Originally, Ybor City historic district was set up by

10:19:20 special act, which by special act we can't have more

10:19:23 authority than allowed by general law.

10:19:25 We did go back and look and see if we could rely on

10:19:28 that per jurisdiction, but when the program was

10:19:32 transferred to city ordinance, that that special act

10:19:35 was repealed, so that wasn't available to us.

10:19:37 So --

10:19:40 >>MARY MULHERN: Yeah, if you could look into that and

10:19:42 see if there's any way that we could be a little more

10:19:45 protective of the historic district.




10:19:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me just follow up.

10:19:51 Also, in terms of the community meetings, I do have

10:19:55 pictures, I guess, from TECO that was e-mailed to us

10:20:00 yesterday evening, last night, and evidently that

10:20:03 they're was some community meeting, I guess TECO is

10:20:05 here, but I don't see many people in these pictures

10:20:08 that represent the neighborhood pretty much.

10:20:10 I don't know what happened there.

10:20:11 I only see TECO workers and employees versus the

10:20:17 community.

10:20:18 And so I know I have several e-mails for people in Ybor

10:20:23 City, Fran Constantino, and a few more e-mails relative

10:20:30 to that, that had no knowledge of any community public

10:20:34 hearings. So maybe TECO can address that here this

10:20:40 morning, because evidently there seems to be that the

10:20:45 neighborhood associations didn't get a notice or were

10:20:47 aware of the public meetings.

10:20:49 >> Stephani Agliano, 702 North Franklin Street.

10:20:57 I know I did send out some information yesterday to

10:21:01 council, going through the details of a public outreach

10:21:04 process that we utilized, not only with this project

10:21:07 but other projects.




10:21:09 And we did meet with several groups as noted in the

10:21:13 e-mail.

10:21:14 We met with -- and we worked very closely with the City

10:21:17 of Tampa to make sure that we are hitting neighborhood

10:21:21 leaders, and if not, residents.

10:21:24 What we do is get the pole line and we take a 500-foot

10:21:30 circle, and we notify those residents of the community

10:21:34 meeting which is one of the last things we do.

10:21:37 In fact, we even included government meetings with City

10:21:41 Council.

10:21:41 We usually reach out to those offices and meet with

10:21:45 each one of you all on the project to review that

10:21:49 project to have some input so that we can have all of

10:21:51 that before going into community meetings.

10:21:55 Unfortunately, I can't make people come to a meeting.

10:22:00 I was there at that meeting.

10:22:03 And when you go through the effort that we do, 850

10:22:05 letters are sent out, and three people show, and I even

10:22:09 had the person come in to see what's going on.

10:22:15 I don't know if there's much more that we can do as a

10:22:19 company to make sure people do attend so that they

10:22:21 understand the details of what's going on.




10:22:24 And we also include in the letters our Web site,

10:22:28 because on that Web site, we post the project, where

10:22:31 it's at, all the information along with it.

10:22:35 So that's what we did for this project, and that's what

10:22:38 our practice is for --

10:22:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me raise a question.

10:22:43 Were these neighborhood associations contacted, sent

10:22:47 letters or e-mail?

10:22:48 Because evidently two presidents of the neighborhood

10:22:51 association say they had no knowledge of those

10:22:53 meetings.

10:22:54 >> As the neighborhood president, Mr. LaColla was not,

10:23:01 and I know that, my regional manager works closely with

10:23:05 City of Tampa to determine neighborhood associations'

10:23:07 key people.

10:23:08 However, as a resident, Mr. LaColla did receive a

10:23:11 letter.

10:23:12 For the neighborhood meeting.

10:23:13 >> Fran Constantino as well?

10:23:16 >> And we met with Fran.

10:23:17 >> What about Y CRA DC?

10:23:19 >> We met with that group.




10:23:21 We met with a group that helped put it together with

10:23:23 the FDOT to make sure we were working in sync with the

10:23:26 work that they were doing, and in fact it was the

10:23:28 request of the FDOT that we actually do the work on the

10:23:31 weekend, and we worked with the City of Tampa to make

10:23:33 sure that that was okay.

10:23:34 >> And Palmetto Beach?

10:23:38 >> Jennifer.

10:23:38 We met with Jennifer.

10:23:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So all those people were aware.

10:23:42 Okay.

10:23:45 I have to take your word, but I am just saying based on

10:23:48 the e-mails of that I got that they said they wasn't

10:23:51 aware, had no knowledge of this.

10:23:53 Councilwoman Mulhern.

10:23:54 >>MARY MULHERN: Yeah, did you meet with us?

10:23:57 I don't remember meeting with TECO on this.

10:23:59 >> Well, and I can find out, but I believe we did, and

10:24:04 I think the only two council people were John and Linda

10:24:07 that we did not -- but we had every opportunity.

10:24:10 We called every office and offered to meet.

10:24:13 And he indicated he did meet with everyone.




10:24:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I don't have any knowledge of meeting

10:24:17 with anyone on this.

10:24:18 >>MARY MULHERN: Yeah, I don't remember meeting on

10:24:20 this.

10:24:22 But my feeling is, you know, you know what your

10:24:29 responsibility is with the community.

10:24:33 My feeling is that the city, you know, you are doing

10:24:37 what you are required to do by law, and the

10:24:42 administration, who you are working closely with, they

10:24:47 need to be protecting the neighborhoods, and noticing

10:24:51 the neighborhood and making sure the neighborhood know.

10:24:54 So, you know, I think your responsibility, I trust that

10:24:58 you, you know, invited all those people and tried to

10:25:01 have all those meetings, but I'm just repeating for Mr.

10:25:07 Fletcher and for the administration that et cetera our

10:25:16 responsibility.

10:25:16 We, you know, agreed to this franchise agreement, and

10:25:20 all the stipulations in it.

10:25:21 And it's our responsibility to make sure that the

10:25:25 neighborhoods know what's coming, and especially in a

10:25:28 historic district.

10:25:29 So I think there's got to be some responsibility on the




10:25:35 part of the administration since this isn't something

10:25:37 that has to come to council.

10:25:39 So in the future, I don't remember having a meeting

10:25:44 with Andrea --

10:25:49 >> and by the way, I think our mailings, they are

10:25:53 certified.

10:25:53 When we send those out to the post office to make sure

10:25:56 we have got a record of everyone.

10:25:58 >> So it would be good to know.

10:26:00 It may have happened so long ago, I don't remember.

10:26:03 It's entirely possible.

10:26:04 >> And it's not uncommon.

10:26:06 A lot of people get a lot of things through the mail,

10:26:09 so "I didn't get this."

10:26:13 We did send out --

10:26:15 >>MARY MULHERN: It usually doesn't happen in my office

10:26:17 since I have a super brain in there opening the mail

10:26:19 and making sure I know everything.

10:26:22 But we can look into that.

10:26:24 But I really think that we need as a city to protect

10:26:29 our historic district.

10:26:31 In the future, just please do make -- call me and I'll




10:26:35 meet with anybody, and maybe the timing.

10:26:39 Maybe we met a year ago.

10:26:41 And certainly not going to know that your plans are

10:26:44 where to put those up whenever that was a week ago or a

10:26:47 few weeks ago.

10:26:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yeah, and as I said, I have no

10:26:52 recollection, and I could have.

10:26:56 We are getting older now.

10:26:57 [ Laughter ]

10:26:58 And so we can't recall, Charlie, sometimes, several

10:27:05 years ago.

10:27:06 But I don't have a recollection of meeting with Andrea

10:27:10 or anyone with TECO relative to this issue.

10:27:12 Okay?

10:27:15 However, I would suggest that perhaps you meet with Mr.

10:27:19 LaColla and Fran and maybe have some discussion with

10:27:22 them as you move forward.

10:27:26 I think it will be in the best interest of TECO and the

10:27:28 community, that some type of meeting of that nature

10:27:33 take place.

10:27:33 >> Absolutely.

10:27:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.




10:27:35 Any other questions?

10:27:38 Okay.

10:27:39 Thank you very much.

10:27:51 Our 10:30 items.

10:27:52 If you are going to be speaking, please stand to be

10:27:54 sworn at this time.

10:27:56 If you have not been sworn, please stand to be sworn at

10:27:58 this time.

10:27:58 (Oath administered by Clerk)

10:28:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, if I can, just repeat

10:28:10 for those people who came in earlier today, the City

10:28:13 Council moved into the record all the items that have

10:28:16 been received, e-mails and written communications, that

10:28:20 they have received, and they have been available for

10:28:23 public inspection in City Council's office, and they

10:28:26 were moved by City Council into the record and made

10:28:29 part of the record at this time.

10:28:30 Also, there is a sign-up sheet outside, and I ask if

10:28:34 you do testify, you do fill out that sign-in sheet so

10:28:37 the clerk does have a record of your name and the fact

10:28:40 that you did testify.

10:28:40 There's a sign out there to be remind you that if you




10:28:46 have not been sworn please do so.

10:28:48 I assume everybody now who intends to speak has been

10:28:51 sworn.

10:28:51 That being said, Mr. Chairman, we are a few second away

10:28:55 from 10:30.

10:28:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, we have two items at 10:30 that

10:29:02 are public hearings.

10:29:03 The other two are continued public hearings.

10:29:07 So we can get a motion to open.

10:29:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT:

10:29:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you can hold that till 10:30.

10:29:16 Just a few second away.

10:29:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think only the last four remaining

10:29:29 items.

10:29:30 The only thing we have left on our agenda for the

10:29:32 morning.

10:29:33 43 and 44, and 45 and 46.

10:29:38 Okay.

10:29:42 Do we have any other business that needs to come before

10:29:53 council?

10:29:53 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just the 10:30.

10:29:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.




10:30:02 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

10:30:04 Opposes?

10:30:10 Item 43.

10:30:11 >> Cathy Ginster, assistant city attorney.

10:30:25 Today, there's the first public hearing scheduled for

10:30:29 approval of a city-initiated proposal for a brownfield

10:30:33 area designation.

10:30:36 Which is located over in the north Ybor channel near

10:30:39 the intersection of Channelside Drive and Adamo Drive

10:30:44 consisting of approximately 25.7 acres.

10:30:47 This property is also located in the city's enterprise

10:30:51 zone, and a portion of the property is located within

10:30:53 the city of Channel District community redevelopment

10:30:56 area.

10:30:58 The second public hearing, and council will be asked to

10:31:04 approve the brownfield area designation scheduled for

10:31:07 December 16th, 2010, in these chambers at 10:30

10:31:11 a.m.

10:31:15 There's a staff report on file with the city clerk's

10:31:17 office for any members of the public who wish to review

10:31:20 the proposed development project.

10:31:23 And City Council's approval of the brownfield area




10:31:26 designation will allow the project property owner to

10:31:28 enter into an agreement with the EPC of Hillsborough

10:31:32 County to rehabilitate, mediate and redevelop the

10:31:37 property.

10:31:38 Thank you.

10:31:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

10:31:42 This is a public hearing.

10:31:43 Does anyone wish to address Councilman on this item?

10:31:52 >>DAVID MECHANIK: 305 South Boulevard, Tampa, Florida.

10:31:54 I'm here on behalf of the Pinellas County.

10:31:56 We do not have anything to add beyond the staff report,

10:32:01 and what Cathy just advised council, but we are here to

10:32:03 answer any questions.

10:32:04 Thank you.

10:32:06 I appreciate your approval.

10:32:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else from the public on item 43

10:32:10 under brownfield?

10:32:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.

10:32:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And second.

10:32:13 All in favor?

10:32:15 Mr. Miranda?

10:32:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, this actually requires




10:32:18 no action on City Council's part.

10:32:21 If you would just announce where he the second public

10:32:23 hearing would be, and that would be the adoption.

10:32:30 I can announce it.

10:32:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: December 16th.

10:32:35 Second public hearing will be December 16th at

10:32:37 10:30 a.m.

10:32:38 So we don't have to take any action?

10:32:41 >>MARTIN SHELBY: No, sir.

10:32:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.

10:32:45 We move to item 44.

10:32:46 Item 44.

10:32:47 >> Good morning, council.

10:32:53 My name is Ron VILLA, staff for preservation.

10:32:59 Item 44 is the tax historic preservation within the

10:33:05 Hyde Park historic district.

10:33:11 You see a photo of the exterior of the building.

10:33:13 After rehabilitation, this is a structure that was

10:33:17 built in 1922, with a gable roof line.

10:33:21 You see columns here, lap siding and double-hung wood

10:33:26 windows.

10:33:27 Further the rehabilitation is moving to the enter your




10:33:30 as well as the exterior.

10:33:33 This is an example of the period doors that remain

10:33:37 behind, were rehabilitated and then reused, in the same

10:33:41 location.

10:33:45 Turning to more photos of the interior, these are

10:33:48 double hung windows, they were also rehabilitated, and

10:33:52 you see the trim, and the picture around the top of the

10:33:59 head theory was retained.

10:34:00 Some more sensitivity to the structure.

10:34:02 The flooring, the original flooring was repaired and

10:34:06 left in place, and new wood had to be installed.

10:34:10 They installed wood to match the period wood.

10:34:13 To conclude, the circulation to the second floor is the

10:34:19 period-appropriate stairs and location was not removed

10:34:22 or changed.

10:34:24 And the stair was rehabilitated completely.

10:34:28 This application is consistent with the Secretary of

10:34:29 Interior standards for rehabilitation.

10:34:33 Thank you.

10:34:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public wish to address

10:34:38 council on item 44?

10:34:40 Anyone from the public?




10:34:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.

10:34:43 >> Second.

10:34:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion by councilman Miranda, seconded

10:34:46 by Councilwoman Mulhern.

10:34:47 All in favor?

10:34:48 Opposes?

10:34:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move an ordinance for first

10:34:57 reading, an ordinance approving a historic preservation

10:35:00 property tax exemption application relative to the

10:35:03 restoration, renovation and rehabilitation of certain

10:35:06 property owned by Jon D. Pellecchia and Julie truster

10:35:12 located at 2113 west hills Avenue, Tampa, Florida in

10:35:16 the Hyde Park historic district based upon certain

10:35:19 findings providing for notice to the property appraiser

10:35:22 of Hillsborough County, providing for severability,

10:35:25 providing for real -- repeal of all ordinances in

10:35:28 conflict, providing an effective date.

10:35:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.

10:35:32 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

10:35:34 Opposes?

10:35:35 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.

10:35:38 Second reading of the ordinance will be held December




10:35:40 16th at 9:30 a.m.

10:35:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 45.

10:35:51 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Item number 45 was previously before

10:35:54 you on November 4th.

10:35:57 If it is the pleasure of council I can do a full

10:35:59 presentation.

10:36:00 This is a request for a 2(APS) beer and wine in

10:36:06 association with a microbrewery.

10:36:08 It did have conditions for hours of operation.

10:36:12 That was Sunday through Thursday, 9 a.m. to 10 p.m. and

10:36:15 Friday and Saturday 9 a.m. to midnight.

10:36:18 Should it be your pleasure I can do a full

10:36:21 presentation.

10:36:22 Please just let me know.

10:36:24 Oh, I'm sorry, 2(COP).

10:36:26 Not 2(APS).

10:36:27 I'm sorry, 2(COP), in association with a microbrewery

10:36:31 and the hours that I mentioned.

10:36:33 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, if I can just refresh

10:36:36 council's recollection.

10:36:38 Six members of council were present.

10:36:39 Council member Miranda was absent.




10:36:41 There was a motion made by council member Caetano,

10:36:44 seconded by council member Mulhern, to move this

10:36:47 ordinance on first reading.

10:36:49 That motion failed on a 3-3 tie: To refresh council's

10:36:55 recollection with regard to its revised procedure, if a

10:37:00 motion fails to receive at least four votes, again as

10:37:03 required by the charter, the motion fails.

10:37:06 And if another motion is not made, the public hearing

10:37:08 shall be reopened and continued to a date and time

10:37:11 certain when the full City Council may be present.

10:37:14 That day is today.

10:37:16 And under council's rules then, there is presently no

10:37:19 motion on the floor.

10:37:22 And again you are here with a continuation of a first

10:37:25 public hearing.

10:37:27 Council's policy with first public hearings, or any

10:37:31 public hearing, is during the course of a public

10:37:32 hearing, when it is continued, somebody who has

10:37:35 previously testified, a member of the public, has

10:37:39 already testified, they don't have another opportunity

10:37:41 to do so except if it moves forward to a second

10:37:44 reading.




10:37:46 Other than the petitioner, of course.

10:37:48 The petitioner does have the right to address any

10:37:51 additional concerns.

10:37:54 And again any member of the public who did speak

10:37:58 previously, the only thing they could talk about are

10:38:00 matters that are limited to the subject of the

10:38:01 continuance.

10:38:02 There really is no subject of the continuance other

10:38:05 than the fact you had a council member missing.

10:38:06 So other than that, my recommendation would be if the

10:38:11 petitioner wishes to make any opening comments to do

10:38:14 so, then --

10:38:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, before we do that, let me just

10:38:23 state for the record after discussing with the attorney

10:38:27 on yesterday, evidently there was an article in the

10:38:32 creating loafing, I think it is --

10:38:35 >> TBO.

10:38:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Whatever it is, that takes my comments

10:38:39 that I made at the last public hearing and talks about

10:38:43 in that I met with the community.

10:38:45 That is not accurate.

10:38:47 I have met with no community persons on this issue.




10:38:51 I have not met with anyone on this issue.

10:38:53 And that public hearing, my statement was referenced to

10:38:55 the statement that there was no police incidents.

10:38:58 And what I was referring to were many times police

10:39:01 incidents do not get reported, that in the past I met

10:39:05 with people that have stated that they did not report

10:39:10 the incident and so forth.

10:39:11 So I want to be clear for the record.

10:39:13 So to satisfy the record and the attorney, I had in a

10:39:16 meeting with anyone in the community on the issue.

10:39:19 So the paper evidently was quoting took it out of

10:39:22 context for the meeting, the last meeting we had this

10:39:24 issue brought up.

10:39:25 Okay.

10:39:26 Petitioner.

10:39:27 >> Joe Redner.

10:39:30 And 3924 West Spruce Street.

10:39:34 >> I'm Joseph Redner, 1310 Alicia Avenue, Tampa,

10:39:40 Florida.

10:39:41 >> I own the property.

10:39:42 Joe is the owner of the brewery.

10:39:44 We passed these out last time to everybody that was




10:39:47 here, except for councilman Miranda.

10:39:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think he has one.

10:39:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I read the one that's behind me P.I

10:39:59 don't want to have two of them.

10:40:14 >> So we can see what we are talking about here.

10:40:16 There's kind of a misconception that we are intruding

10:40:23 in a neighborhood.

10:40:31 This is the property in question.

10:40:35 The pink is where Cigar City brewery is.

10:40:40 This is offices next to that is a warehouse.

10:40:42 Next to that is a gym.

10:40:44 Next to that is the lighting company.

10:40:48 Across the street, over here, is the City of Tampa

10:40:58 where they do, this shows Spruce street here.

10:41:09 This is the property in question.

10:41:12 This is a post office.

10:41:14 This is old Sears building.

10:41:17 Again across the street over here is where they collect

10:41:24 the garbage, City of Tampa.

10:41:26 And this is a little larger picture.

10:41:28 Again, this is the area of the property in question.

10:41:33 This is Spruce.




10:41:34 This is Lincoln Gardens.

10:41:35 You can't see Carver City.

10:41:37 Maybe a little of it over here.

10:41:41 This is target.

10:41:42 This is Home Depot.

10:41:43 This is Dale Mabry.

10:41:45 This whole section is zoned commercial intensive.

10:41:56 Commercial intensive in the code is the district that

10:42:01 provides areas for intense commercial activity

10:42:04 permitting heavy commercial and service uses.

10:42:08 It's been like this for 30 or 40 years.

10:42:11 50 years this has been commercial property.

10:42:19 What we are asking for is a 2(COP) to operate Sunday

10:42:25 through Thursday from 9 to 10.

10:42:28 We want to close at 10:00 at night through Thursday.

10:42:34 On Friday and Saturday from 9 to 12 midnight.

10:42:38 We put those conditions on ourselves.

10:42:45 Cigar City is active in the community.

10:43:03 And with Make-A-Wish Foundation, whole planet

10:43:11 foundation, big brothers, big sisters, donate to school

10:43:14 auctions, grain partnership, neighborhood national

10:43:18 night out, United Way, and Easter seals.




10:43:22 We also sell beer to Bonefish grill, Circle K, World of

10:43:29 Beer, whole foods, total wine and more, ABC liquors,

10:43:34 Publix just came on, and Sweetbay just came on.

10:43:37 So it's a brewery with an impact in Tampa.

10:43:43 Very big impact.

10:43:46 You know the evidence that you the city must use to

10:43:49 base your reason to deny the zoning on is that it must

10:43:51 be competent, substantial evidence.

10:43:56 A court reviewing your decision to deny this zoning

10:43:59 will look to see if you had competent substantial

10:44:02 evidence to base your decision on.

10:44:04 You know that.

10:44:06 Your attorneys have told you that over and over again.

10:44:09 In fact, the other day your attorney even told you

10:44:12 there was a right to limited cross-examination for the

10:44:16 applicant, much to your chagrin.

10:44:20 I don't know why.

10:44:21 It just ferrets out the truth.

10:44:23 It's the law.

10:44:24 You know why it's the law.

10:44:25 It makes things fair.

10:44:27 And we all want to be fair, don't we?




10:44:30 In other words, if you deny this zoning because you

10:44:32 believe it will cause crime in the neighborhood,

10:44:36 whatever it is that you rely on to make that decision,

10:44:38 that the zoning causes crime.

10:44:41 To show crime you must have testimony from a witness,

10:44:44 too, or a victim of a crime connected to the business

10:44:46 at issue in this zoning, proof that we cause crime.

10:44:51 We have all the proof that we don't cause crime.

10:44:54 Two years of operating without an incident and without

10:44:57 a complaint according to your own police department.

10:45:08 I am going to read you from the police report.

10:45:17 An on-site inspection from the listed property was made

10:45:20 by this officer.

10:45:21 There is no reason to deny this request.

10:45:22 I ran a police calls for service for the last year.

10:45:25 He analyze those calls for service that they brought

10:45:28 you.

10:45:30 That the neighborhood brought you.

10:45:31 He analyzed it.

10:45:33 I found noon calls related to complaints from the

10:45:35 neighborhood.

10:45:36 There were no reports for any alcohol violations.




10:45:40 No incidents in two years.

10:45:42 That's unheard of.

10:45:46 For a place of assembly of this sort.

10:45:48 And if the neighborhood came to us with specific

10:45:50 complaints we would fix whatever it was.

10:45:59 Two years of operating without an incident, without a

10:46:02 complaint according to your own place police

10:46:04 department.

10:46:04 The police department evaluated the crime statistics

10:46:06 and found that none were attributable to cigar industry

10:46:10 brewing.

10:46:10 The neighborhood folks have been very vocal and

10:46:12 persistent in their opposition to this zoning.

10:46:14 They have been to most of the hearings to voice their

10:46:17 opposition.

10:46:18 But I have not presented one piece of credible evidence

10:46:22 that substantiates their opinion that we cause crime in

10:46:26 the neighborhood.

10:46:26 In fact, they haven't provided any evidence at all.

10:46:30 Don't you think if they had any, they would tell you

10:46:32 about it?

10:46:33 They even hired a lawyer who couldn't come up with




10:46:36 competent substantial evidence.

10:46:37 Our evidence is indisputable.

10:46:40 We have two years of operate operation without an

10:46:42 incident or a complaint.

10:46:44 According to your own police department.

10:46:47 Frankly at the prior hearings the opinions to deny were

10:46:49 not based on evidence.

10:46:51 Which makes me question the motives.

10:46:54 You can't use evidence that you admit isn't there, like

10:46:57 Scott did in the last hearing when he said because

10:46:59 there is no evidence of crime doesn't mean there isn't

10:47:02 any.

10:47:02 He just imagined some up.

10:47:05 And based his vote to deny this zoning based on that

10:47:09 made-up evidence.

10:47:11 That's not fair.

10:47:14 You can't make up evidence and use it against someone's

10:47:17 property rights.

10:47:18 So again I have to question the motive.

10:47:21 I would recommend you approve this zoning before you

10:47:24 send a message that we are a business-friendly city.

10:47:28 How do I deal with these vague allegations that the




10:47:32 Carver City neighborhood association wrote to the City

10:47:34 Council?

10:47:35 They said -- this is what they wrote -- since the

10:47:38 conditional one-year lease has been in place we have

10:47:40 found that the increase in traffic and crime based on

10:47:44 neighborhood observation.

10:47:46 What did they observe?

10:47:49 Of the activity at the establishment?

10:47:54 They wrote, this leads to the logical conclusion that

10:47:56 the sale of alcoholic beverages is the primary function

10:47:59 of the business establishment operated or to be

10:48:02 operated, that conditional waiver of the distance

10:48:05 separation requirements found in the City of Tampa code

10:48:09 has caused the area to resemble a commercial area

10:48:13 It is a commercial area.

10:48:14 It's been commercial for 40, 50 years.

10:48:18 Rather than a residential area.

10:48:21 They say the use of my property causes some kind of

10:48:23 crime.

10:48:24 How do I defend myself and my property when they

10:48:27 haven't told us what those crimes are?

10:48:30 I demand they tell me what crimes they observed.




10:48:34 I take this personally.

10:48:35 I demand you know what those crimes are.

10:48:39 And I also demand the public know what those crimes

10:48:41 are.

10:48:42 I demand the civic association and their lawyer tell

10:48:45 you and I what those crimes are they observed.

10:48:50 What if someone was accusing you of misusing your

10:48:53 property?

10:48:53 You would want to know what they were talking about,

10:48:55 wouldn't you?

10:48:56 You can't use that kind of evidence against the

10:48:59 property.

10:49:00 You need competent substantial evidence, and your

10:49:03 lawyer has told you that.

10:49:04 You need to listen to them.

10:49:05 And if you go against your attorney's advice, and your

10:49:08 police department's advice, and every other city

10:49:11 department's advice, I have to again question your

10:49:15 motives.

10:49:16 Every wet zoning in the City of Tampa has to get a

10:49:19 special exception.

10:49:20 You made it that way.




10:49:21 And most wet zonings border on residential districts in

10:49:25 Tampa except in Ybor City and downtown.

10:49:27 At least we are across the street.

10:49:30 This property has been commercial intensive for the

10:49:33 equivalent for 30 or 40 years.

10:49:37 Commercial intensive is exactly where the city wants

10:49:39 you to put a bar.

10:49:42 It is the preferred designation for this type of

10:49:45 activity.

10:49:46 But this is much less intrusive than a normal bar.

10:49:51 It is a tasting room attached to a normal brewery, and

10:49:54 the tasting room is an integral part of the marketing

10:49:56 of the brewery.

10:49:58 You have to understand the brewery and tasting room are

10:50:01 a bona fide tourist attraction.

10:50:04 That's what they have become.

10:50:06 Cigar City brewing is going to be an asset total City

10:50:09 of Tampa on the level of the Columbia restaurant and

10:50:12 Bern's steakhouse.

10:50:13 That's a fact.

10:50:14 It's going to happen.

10:50:16 Also, a concern is that the brewery leaves, the bar




10:50:19 will still be there, a legitimate concern.

10:50:22 We are willing to condition this zoning on the brewery,

10:50:25 and when the brewery leaves so does the tasting room.

10:50:28 I don't want a bar there if the brewery goes.

10:50:30 Traffic is not a legitimate concern because there are

10:50:33 so many uses that can be put there without approval

10:50:37 that would generate more tasting, more traffic than the

10:50:41 tasting room.

10:50:45 Example.

10:50:50 A funeral parlor, a hospital and associated uses, a

10:50:54 hotel or a motel, a school, an airport, a bank.

10:51:03 Bank is the largest generate oar of traffic there is.

10:51:06 There is no more.

10:51:08 And we can put one there without coming to the City

10:51:10 Council.

10:51:11 A dry cleaning plant.

10:51:14 A kennel.

10:51:16 A light manufacturing.

10:51:21 I remember a long time ago when we were having a zoning

10:51:27 hearing before the City Council someone opposed to the

10:51:29 zoning use statistics to show there were no home sales

10:51:33 in Lincoln Gardens and said that was because no one




10:51:36 wanted to buy the homes.

10:51:37 Sounded good.

10:51:40 I knew there was something wrong with that position but

10:51:42 I couldn't figure it out in time to tell you why.

10:51:45 Later, I went for a drive in Lincoln Gardens

10:51:48 neighborhood and it hit me, the reason there were no

10:51:50 sales is because there weren't any houses for sale.

10:51:53 No one wanted to sell or leave.

10:51:54 So they used the statistics the opposite way they

10:51:58 should have been used.

10:52:04 I guess that's about it.

10:52:05 >> Joe: I would like to add, I run the business in

10:52:15 question and I'm a member of my River Bend neighborhood

10:52:18 association and I'm very active in it.

10:52:20 And I think that the City Council is at its best when

10:52:24 it's balancing the needs of citizens and neighborhoods

10:52:27 with the needs of business, and I think what a business

10:52:31 should do is prove that they can be a good neighbor

10:52:33 before they should be trusted, and I think we have done

10:52:37 that for two years, and we have done it to the best of

10:52:39 our ability, and nobody officially, if there are crimes

10:52:43 going on that aren't being reported, what I would say




10:52:45 is who is being a bad neighbor?

10:52:47 If I see a crime I'm reporting it.

10:52:50 So we have done the best we can to be a good neighbor.

10:52:52 And I think on that record of two years of operating

10:52:54 the business without incident we should get the wet

10:52:57 zoning because we proved that we can be a responsible

10:52:59 business owner.

10:53:00 >> Thank you very much.

10:53:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do you have questions, councilman

10:53:09 Caetano?

10:53:11 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Yes.

10:53:12 Mr. Redner, you put up a map there to show us the

10:53:15 commercial intensive area.

10:53:17 I think it was the last map that had you put up.

10:53:26 Is there anyone else selling alcohol in that commercial

10:53:29 intensive area?

10:53:31 >> Carrabas, total wine, whole foods.

10:53:34 >> Who is that?

10:53:35 >> Three at least.

10:53:37 Four, because there's a gas station on the corner that

10:53:39 also sells beer.

10:53:40 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: They are in that?




10:53:43 >> In this block from Dale Mabry --

10:53:47 >> Yes, there's alcohol sold here.

10:53:49 >> Where is total wine located?

10:53:52 >> Total wine is right there.

10:53:54 And then there's a gas station here that sells alcohol.

10:53:57 And there's the whole food sales alcohol and target

10:54:01 sales alcohol and the restaurant up here on the corner

10:54:04 sells alcohol.

10:54:06 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Thank you.

10:54:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?

10:54:09 >> All of these places that sell alcohol are just as

10:54:12 close to their neighbors here.

10:54:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do you have a question?

10:54:31 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Maybe this question is for Ms. Feeley.

10:54:36 Mr. Redner mention add condition of zoning.

10:54:39 When the brewery and tasting bar leave, they would be

10:54:43 agreeable to that.

10:54:45 Is that possible?

10:54:50 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land development.

10:54:51 Yes.

10:54:51 The way that the special use is written and the request

10:54:54 for the 2(COP), it is conditioned that it is in section




10:54:58 with microbrewery.

10:54:59 >> And I am going to ask a couple more.

10:55:07 The hours of operation, is that on the -- would that be

10:55:12 on the site plan?

10:55:16 >> Yes.

10:55:19 I think there was some confusion as to what those were

10:55:22 at the last hearing, and Mr. Redner has provided me

10:55:24 with an updated site plan and we do have that, and

10:55:27 those hours as were stated on the record.

10:55:30 Sunday you this Thursday, 9 a.m. to 10 p.m., and Friday

10:55:36 and Saturday 9 a.m. to midnight.

10:55:38 >> I have a question for Mr. Redner.

10:55:46 Being that you are agreeing to conditions on your site

10:55:53 plan -- and I'm not sure that you are aware that we

10:55:58 have a workshop in January which pertains to alcoholic

10:56:02 beverage, a special use permitting.

10:56:05 And briefly, code enforcement has been stated here that

10:56:11 it is complaint-driven, and therefore I would like to

10:56:14 know if you would be in favor as a business owner --

10:56:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm going to -- are you going to ask

10:56:24 him a question outside the realm of what you are

10:56:27 deciding today?




10:56:28 The item that you have right in front of you?

10:56:31 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Uh-huh.

10:56:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Then my suggestion would be that it

10:56:34 would be inappropriate to ask him because it is not

10:56:36 relevant to this hearing.

10:56:38 >>YVONNE CAPIN: All right.

10:56:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Although you do raise a question as

10:56:40 to the enforcement of the hours of operation.

10:56:43 And perhaps if you wish to have Tampa's representative

10:56:47 address that, you are welcome to do that.

10:56:50 But you don't have to if that's not your desire.

10:56:54 >>YVONNE CAPIN: No.

10:56:54 >> Joe Redner: Is the public -- I'm sorry.

10:57:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry, but if you have any other

10:57:07 question.

10:57:07 The question that I think you were about to ask would

10:57:09 not be relevant to this hearing.

10:57:12 It would be my recommendation to not ask that.

10:57:16 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.

10:57:17 >>> Is the public hearing still open?

10:57:19 Could I read?

10:57:20 >> No, sir.




10:57:20 I think not right now.

10:57:22 You will have a chance on rebuttal.

10:57:24 Okay?

10:57:24 Councilwoman Miller.

10:57:25 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a question for officer Miller.

10:57:27 >> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police department.

10:57:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Redner stated his hours will be

10:57:37 Sunday from 9 a.m. to 10 p.m.

10:57:39 What hours does he start selling alcoholic beverages?

10:57:42 >> On Sunday?

10:57:43 They changed it to 11.

10:57:47 >> So open at 9, going to be --

10:57:51 >> They have to a bid by the law, be 11:00.

10:57:54 >> Just what was on the original application.

10:57:59 >> We don't open till 11.

10:58:07 9 was put on the original application.

10:58:09 >>GWEN MILLER: You stated 9.

10:58:11 >> We wanted to open at 9:

10:58:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Did you say you have it written on your

10:58:17 plans?

10:58:18 >> It's on the plans -- we have never opened -- we

10:58:20 never opened at 9.




10:58:23 Our hours have always been 11 on.

10:58:25 >>GWEN MILLER: But we can't do -- a.

10:58:27 >> If the law says you can't sell beer till 11 --

10:58:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Well, you are making a statement you

10:58:33 are going to open at 9.

10:58:35 >> Are you suggesting we would purposely sell alcohol

10:58:37 before?

10:58:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Why would you open at 9 then?

10:58:43 >> We are not open at 9.

10:58:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right, thank you.

10:58:47 Thank you.

10:58:48 Officer Miller, do you have anything you want to add to

10:58:50 the record?

10:58:54 Mr. Redner, you can be seated now.

10:58:57 Okay.

10:58:57 Any other question from council?

10:59:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, just a reminder for the

10:59:02 record.

10:59:03 I know I asked City Council to do this prior to the

10:59:05 10:00 30 hearings.

10:59:07 And I noticed that you did so with regard to what was

10:59:09 perceived in the newspaper article.




10:59:11 But with regard to any ex parte communications, that

10:59:15 you may have had, I ask that if you have had any

10:59:18 ex parte communications, relative to today's hearing,

10:59:22 that you, prior to taking action, divulge the substance

10:59:28 of that communication and with whom it occurred.

10:59:30 Thank you.

10:59:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, thank you.

10:59:32 >>> Is it too late to add something?

10:59:36 >> You will have opportunity to come back.

10:59:37 Okay.

10:59:37 You will have rebuttal.

10:59:39 Okay?

10:59:39 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, I received a call

10:59:45 on 12-1 at 8:22 in the morning from Paul J. Teppin who

10:59:52 says he supports this petition.

10:59:54 And he's a competitor, does not distribute their beer.

11:00:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

11:00:05 We will hear from the public, those who have not spoken

11:00:07 may come forward at this time, state your name and

11:00:10 address for the record.

11:00:11 All right.

11:00:20 >> Ed Tillou, and I live up around USF, a student




11:00:26 there, studied chemical engineering so I call this my

11:00:29 beer research, because actually a lot of chemical

11:00:32 engineers do work in the brewing industry.

11:00:34 And I visited there six or eight times, actually about

11:00:40 eight or ten.

11:00:41 I have to use the bus because I lost my cars while I

11:00:47 was sick and therefore can only testify to what happens

11:00:50 during bus use hours.

11:00:51 And maybe when the buses stop running all hell breaks

11:00:55 looks there but I don't really think so.

11:00:57 I belong to Tampa Bay beers, beer enthusiasts, and I am

11:01:03 not here as a representative of theirs.

11:01:05 Their meeting will be this Tuesday.

11:01:07 They probably would have sent people, but they weren't

11:01:11 up on it.

11:01:11 I think a lot has accrued to this and I think the

11:01:18 testament is what Joey Redner's sister said that was

11:01:21 repeat add round the bar.

11:01:22 She said she's no longer viewed as Joe Redner's

11:01:25 daughter but Joey Redner's sister.

11:01:29 So this is getting a lot of play.

11:01:33 I like their beers.




11:01:34 I like them once or twice after the third or fourth

11:01:37 time I move on.

11:01:38 And going to a lot of -- I have been going to a lot of

11:01:43 movies.

11:01:43 But they are good the first, second, third time.

11:01:46 So they are in competition with Shriner Baches, Genuine

11:01:53 Belgian's, Bell's Brewing, they have made a national

11:01:55 reputation.

11:01:57 Now, taking the bus, I got off the bus one time, and

11:02:01 they were these huge kids, I mean, like teenagers,

11:02:04 about 6'3", 6'4", and I think they lived in that

11:02:10 neighborhood.

11:02:10 Now, that neighborhood, I read a little about it, and

11:02:14 it goes back to the Korean war.

11:02:16 And what I see unfolding, so it's mostly grandparents

11:02:21 that live with a certain paranoia because they are

11:02:26 elderly people.

11:02:28 It's free flowing paranoia.

11:02:30 And what happened is I was raised on eastern Long

11:02:33 Island which as an appendage of New England we always

11:02:39 study a lot of the history.

11:02:40 And where he the puritans were persecuted in New




11:02:45 England, came to the United States the first item on

11:02:47 their agenda was to persecute everyone else.

11:02:50 And I think that's a lot what Lincoln Gardens is doing

11:02:52 because Korean war veterans, they couldn't find places

11:02:57 elsewhere, and now that they have been there and

11:03:00 established, they are seemingly doing the same thing to

11:03:03 other people.

11:03:06 Now, what goes with this is these very large kids, they

11:03:10 weren't a problem.

11:03:12 They were a little intimidating, but they were probably

11:03:15 grandchildren being raised by grandparents from that

11:03:17 neighborhood, and maybe this is who was throwing the

11:03:20 rocks at the woman's house, because no one knows who

11:03:24 did this.

11:03:25 But the proper place of the neighborhood association

11:03:28 here would be to be finding recreational opportunities

11:03:33 for these kids.

11:03:35 They did seem bored.

11:03:37 They weren't intimidating but they did seem bored.

11:03:40 And they would be kids about 15 or 16.

11:03:44 They weren't going there.

11:03:46 And it's a well-behaved place.




11:03:52 (Bell sounds).

11:03:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.

11:03:54 Your time is up.

11:03:55 Next speaker.

11:03:58 Again, those who did not speak, at the last hearing,

11:04:03 are allowed to speak today.

11:04:04 Okay.

11:04:04 >> Good morning.

11:04:07 My name is Dr. Murray -- president of Carver City

11:04:11 Lincoln Gardens association and resident of Lincoln

11:04:13 Gardens.

11:04:16 I just want to say thank you for the opportunity to be

11:04:18 able to speak again and to say thank you to the council

11:04:21 members that have shown their support by holding to the

11:04:24 code you have written without waiver or compromise.

11:04:29 But today is a day of questions, and maybe some answers

11:04:32 that will hopefully put this issue to rest without

11:04:36 waiver or compromise.

11:04:38 Let me answer the council's question from the last

11:04:42 hearing of where are the residents?

11:04:47 The residents of Carver City and Lincoln Gardens have

11:04:51 been here since 2008.




11:04:52 In 2008, we were told to go back, bring a bigger crowd.

11:04:58 But since you want compromise, we will compromise for

11:05:01 you.

11:05:04 Now come back the next year because you don't have

11:05:06 enough for us to stand by the code and restrictions

11:05:09 that we have worked so hard to develop for the

11:05:12 protection of residents, institutions, and, yes, other

11:05:16 establishments that sell alcohol.

11:05:20 So go back, because you need complaints of criminal

11:05:24 activity.

11:05:25 So again we returned in 2009 with a room full of

11:05:28 people, a petition of 340 residents, and family

11:05:33 members, a three-inch thick history of complaints of

11:05:37 criminal activity of all establishments that serve or

11:05:41 sell alcohol in the area, and again we were told that

11:05:45 is enough, we will compromise for you.

11:05:52 We have to go hither and yonder to find the answers we

11:05:55 seek but today, December 2nd, 2010, our response is

11:05:58 still the same, and we don't need you to compromise for

11:06:02 us, but to stand by the code you have written because

11:06:06 without the waivers, there is no compromise.

11:06:10 Carver City Lincoln Gardens association objects to the




11:06:13 wet zone ago approval for case Z-10369, Specialty Malls

11:06:21 of Tampa Bay, Inc., and to waiving the 1,000-foot

11:06:24 restrictions for residential property, instructional

11:06:29 institutional use, and wet zoned properties, which Mr.

11:06:33 Redner has amply shown to you, which are in the

11:06:37 vicinity on his map.

11:06:39 But waiving all the restrictions under this code with

11:06:42 the objections of any parties, it is supposed to

11:06:45 protect pose a very serious question for all.

11:06:51 Why was the code written in the first place?

11:06:55 Over the past few weeks, I have been bombarded with

11:06:57 questions for the news media about Cigar City brewery

11:07:03 and it made me think, why am I getting questioned about

11:07:05 Cigar City when Specialty Mall is applying for the

11:07:08 license?

11:07:12 So now I have questions for you.

11:07:16 Why do residents and neighborhood associations have to

11:07:18 go through the process of justifying why you Schuh not

11:07:23 waive a code that was written to protect us?

11:07:28 Should the applicant justify why you should waive the

11:07:31 code?

11:07:34 Two, who is the real applicant for Specialty Malls of




11:07:37 Tampa with the name Joey Redner?

11:07:40 (Bell sounds).

11:07:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.

11:07:45 Time.

11:07:45 >> My name is attorney Miriam Sumpter Richard. My

11:07:50 office is at 505 East Jackson Street, suite 303, Tampa,

11:07:55 Florida 33602 and I represent Carver City Lincoln

11:08:00 Gardens Civic Association, Inc., and support -- advance

11:08:06 their position in opposition to the approval of this

11:08:09 particular zoning request, case V-10-369.

11:08:17 Additional questions and additional information I

11:08:19 submitted on the 30th states on the application

11:08:24 that was submitted by Specialty Malls and cigar

11:08:29 industry brewery to the department of alcohol and

11:08:32 tobacco.

11:08:33 One of the key requirements of the statute when they

11:08:38 are applying for approval of the 2(COP) license is

11:08:43 whether or not that particular applicant can qualified

11:08:48 and whether or not the applicant that receives the

11:08:51 2(COP) license has any criminal convictions that will

11:08:55 prevent it, and additional questions came to mind.

11:09:02 Some are, is Joe Redner Specialty Malls of Tampa have a




11:09:07 felony conviction and therefore may not have been able

11:09:09 to obtain full liquor license?

11:09:14 Is that why the liquor license is placed with Cigar

11:09:17 City brewery LLC?

11:09:21 And who is Joseph J. Michael Redner of Cigar City

11:09:26 brewery LLC?

11:09:28 I understand that he is the adopted son of Joe Redner.

11:09:32 But in my investigation, there were various -- and

11:09:38 presented to council -- names of Joe Redner, Joseph

11:09:42 Redner, Joseph J. Michael Redner, and so forth, as I

11:09:48 put in the actual article.

11:09:49 One of the requirements was the department of alcohol

11:09:53 and tobacco, and I placed a statute also in the record.

11:10:00 If this 2(COP) license is granted to an individual,

11:10:03 then under Florida statute 561 .29-1-A and 561-17 (1)

11:10:15 was the license obtained from the division of alcohol

11:10:18 beverage and tobacco?

11:10:20 And whoever submitted this sworn application, did that

11:10:24 person do it with a direct -- indirect financial

11:10:28 interest in the license who will be engaged in the

11:10:32 business of manufacturing, bottling, distributing,

11:10:36 selling, in any other way dealing in alcoholic




11:10:39 beverages?

11:10:40 If you reflect that on the statements that were made

11:10:42 today, by Mr. Redner, Sr., and his son, it was

11:10:50 impossible to tell, sitting in the back, who was

11:10:53 actually advancing this petition.

11:10:56 Some of the comments that were made was that where you

11:11:06 want a bar that's commercially permissive?

11:11:11 I think that came from Joseph Redner, Sr., that this is

11:11:14 really a bar that they were going to operate.

11:11:17 One of the additional informations --

11:11:21 (Bell sounds).

11:11:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, next speaker.

11:11:26 >> Good morning.

11:11:29 I rise in support of Joey Redner and Cigar City.

11:11:34 My name is Dr. Rudy Lydell, 2630 she shelrico lane in

11:11:44 Valrico, Florida, and I consider myself a regular

11:11:46 customer of Cigar City.

11:11:47 Like Joey Redner I am a business owner, I am a dentist

11:11:51 out in the Brandon area, I have 22 employees.

11:11:58 I just finished serving the west coast dental

11:12:00 association as its president.

11:12:02 I'm currently on the Board of Trustees of the Florida




11:12:05 Dental association.

11:12:06 I'm a Rotary member.

11:12:07 I'm also a member of St. Andrews Methodist church.

11:12:10 I say that.

11:12:11 There's a misconception, I think, out there that this

11:12:15 is a typical bar that you may see up around USF.

11:12:20 It's everything but.

11:12:22 A tasting room is for those of us who enjoy well-made

11:12:26 craft beer.

11:12:27 When I say well-made, I agree with Joe Redner that

11:12:31 Cigar City is making a national name for itself, and

11:12:33 it's probably regarded as one of the top ten

11:12:36 microbreweries in the country at this time.

11:12:38 I have sat in the bar and actually talked to people

11:12:41 from out of state who have made this particular tasting

11:12:46 room a destination.

11:12:48 I have seen people extend their stays in Tampa to enjoy

11:12:54 a particular event.

11:12:55 It was called Fruit in the Room.

11:13:00 I interact with people when I sit there and I have a

11:13:03 pint or two of some of their beer.

11:13:06 It's not a rowdy crowd.




11:13:08 It's a professional crowd like myself.

11:13:10 I have never witnessed myself anybody who has, in my

11:13:14 opinion, overimbibed.

11:13:17 People come there for the quality of the beer.

11:13:19 You won't find, you know, five dollar buckets of

11:13:23 Budweiser there.

11:13:24 It just doesn't happen there.

11:13:25 You have people that appreciate beer for the taste of

11:13:28 beer.

11:13:28 They are aficionados, if you will.

11:13:31 Another thing I was thinking about, too.

11:13:33 If you discount the number of people in the county and

11:13:37 the city, employed by state, local or federal

11:13:40 governments and big corporations, if each member of the

11:13:45 City Council made a list of 100 people, an all those

11:13:49 names were -- didn't overlap in any certain way, if

11:13:55 just 3%, three people out of a hundred had the

11:13:59 entrepreneurial spirit of a Joe Redner, that employed

11:14:02 207 employees, the unemployment rate in Hillsborough

11:14:05 County would be zero.

11:14:08 I think instead of trying to limit his business, we

11:14:11 ought to have a forum to talk to him and other small




11:14:14 business owners to find out what are the obstacles to

11:14:18 success?

11:14:19 Thank you very much.

11:14:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.

11:14:21 Next speaker.

11:14:22 >>> Ken Getty.

11:14:27 I'm at 14450 river circle, apartment 708, Tampa,

11:14:34 Florida 333613.

11:14:36 I'm a six and a half year resident of Tampa.

11:14:39 And I am also an MBA student at the University of South

11:14:42 Florida.

11:14:43 I need to preface this that I have never met Mr. Redner

11:14:46 or Mr. Redner.

11:14:48 Part of the MBA program is there is a program in your

11:14:55 final two semesters to work with an existing business

11:14:57 in Tampa and really work with the employees, learn that

11:15:00 business, learn the industry, and really see what it

11:15:04 is.

11:15:05 This semester, we had the chance to work with Cigar

11:15:09 City brewery and really get a feel for their operation

11:15:13 as long with the beer industry as a whole.

11:15:16 Our findings were pretty startling.




11:15:18 Even my professor was in disbelief when we presented

11:15:22 them to Cigar City.

11:15:25 Craft brewery in Florida is no easy feat.

11:15:27 You basically have the deck stacked against you.

11:15:30 The fourth highest taxes in the nation are in Florida

11:15:33 when it comes to beer.

11:15:34 On top of that you have the lopsided economy of scale

11:15:39 due to national breweries.

11:15:41 But all those things, the fact that they still possess

11:15:46 250% growth rate this year, only brewing a thousand

11:15:50 barrels of beer, and 4,000 this year, that wasn't the

11:15:53 startling fact that my professor couldn't believe.

11:15:56 Every week that we visited the tasting room, it was the

11:16:01 professional crowd that was in there, and also the

11:16:07 people from out of state, I think every time we were in

11:16:12 there there was at least an individual that drove two

11:16:14 hours to sit in that tasting room to see the brewery

11:16:18 operation and enjoy a couple of beers and take some

11:16:24 home with them.

11:16:25 Earlier today the City Council touched on small

11:16:27 businesses.

11:16:31 Talking about the terrible economic situation it faced,




11:16:33 and it's necessary for local government to step in.

11:16:36 It's funny that this comes up right after it, and the

11:16:40 City Council is thinking of hobbling this brewery

11:16:47 today.

11:16:47 I can testify that this business is truly Joey Redner's

11:16:51 business.

11:16:51 I know there is kind of a statement made that this is a

11:16:54 shadow operation for Joe Redner.

11:16:56 And all of our findings, it was Joey Redner's name that

11:17:00 came to the top, that he is the integral force of this

11:17:02 brewery, and truly it is his operation.

11:17:08 On top of that, the biggest finding is really Cigar

11:17:10 City brewery is an ambassador for hmmm.

11:17:14 Not only do they encourage tourism.

11:17:16 People come in, stay longer, but they also incorporate

11:17:18 their rich cultural history of Tampa and the brands

11:17:22 they produce and distribute across the nation.

11:17:25 Thank you.

11:17:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.

11:17:28 >> Natalie king with Pepin distributing company Tampa,

11:17:35 north 50th street.

11:17:36 As you know, Tom Pepin and Jay Pepin both expressed




11:17:41 their opinion in support and they asked me to come

11:17:43 today.

11:17:43 This is more an economic development issue.

11:17:46 We have been here six the 60s and we are a

11:17:50 competitor.

11:17:50 We have in a personal stake.

11:17:53 If anything, they are taking market share from us.

11:17:56 But we recognize what a great community partner we are.

11:17:58 We are proud to partner with them on many community and

11:18:00 charitable and philanthropic activities as well as the

11:18:04 fact they have taken in the last two years under their

11:18:07 temporary provision an organization from two employees

11:18:10 to 22.

11:18:11 That in the development of jobs is unheard of in this

11:18:13 economy.

11:18:14 Please do not take away that opportunity for our

11:18:16 community.

11:18:16 And please do not hobble their ability to not only be

11:18:19 an ambassador for our community, but as well set the

11:18:22 stage for new businesses to come into our community.

11:18:25 Thank you.

11:18:30 >> Steve Williams.




11:18:32 I reside 8003 north 12th Street just north of the

11:18:36 Hillsborough River.

11:18:37 I'm speaking today on behalf of the house mates for

11:18:42 one.

11:18:42 We all stand at the port of allowing Cigar City to

11:18:46 retain its tasting room.

11:18:49 Many of my friends tell me things about Cigar City.

11:18:54 It's internationally known, been told that a friend of

11:19:00 mine paid $30 in Belgium for a bottle of Cigar City

11:19:04 beer.

11:19:05 That's remarkable.

11:19:06 It's an internationally known brewery.

11:19:08 And in a time when unemployment is high and Tampa's

11:19:13 economy is more largely a service-based economy rather

11:19:16 than a manufacturing economy, I think that encouraging

11:19:20 small businesses like Cigar City like so many other

11:19:23 microbreweries in Tampa is the best course of action.

11:19:28 That is all.

11:19:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.

11:19:29 Next speaker.

11:19:30 >> Tim Heberlein, 1259 national drive.

11:19:39 I would like to ask that you do approve the permit for




11:19:41 the Cigar City brewing company.

11:19:46 I come to you as a craft beer have you enthusiast but

11:19:49 also as the vice-president for the Hillsborough County

11:19:52 young Democrats and your drinking liberally, which a

11:19:57 group that gets together, enjoys a few Cigar City brews

11:20:02 and talks about politics and sometimes you guys, too.

11:20:04 But I also work, play and spend money in the City of

11:20:07 Tampa.

11:20:08 And I can tell you this is an incredible product that

11:20:12 Tampa has -- that Joe Redner has produced something

11:20:15 that is nationally known and I have a copy of this

11:20:19 edition of draft magazine which circulates 240,000

11:20:23 copies national nationwide.

11:20:24 In it is the top 25 beers, and Cigar City makes that

11:20:29 list.

11:20:30 And not only once but it mentions it twice in there.

11:20:33 A nice little Christmas recipe for that beer.

11:20:36 So to let you know that people nationwide are paying

11:20:38 attention to this product and to this company.

11:20:41 I also got married a couple of months ago, and I

11:20:44 actually bought a keg of Cigar City beer for my wedding

11:20:49 reception because I just appreciated it so much and I




11:20:51 understand it's a great product and I really appreciate

11:20:55 them being as creative as they are.

11:20:57 And the last two years going from 2 to 22 employees is

11:21:00 an incredible kind of economic benefit this company has

11:21:05 to the City of Tampa.

11:21:06 This is something that is nationally known.

11:21:09 So I personally don't see how this particular tasting

11:21:16 room can affect -- affects traffic, and the crime area,

11:21:22 again I am not a police officer, not Department of

11:21:24 Transportation, I'm not privy to that information.

11:21:27 But from my experience this has been an incredibly

11:21:30 positive one.

11:21:32 I have traveled around the world tasting other beers in

11:21:36 their tasting rooms, and had a beer from those, and I

11:21:39 can tell you that this does generate revenue for the

11:21:41 City of Tampa.

11:21:43 And I know there's been a lot of public support for it.

11:21:45 I'm not sure if it's being presented but I know there

11:21:48 is a petition going online with over 800 signatures

11:21:51 from people not just in this city but around the state

11:21:54 and around the country.

11:21:55 And so I please ask that you approve the 2(COP) for the




11:21:59 Cigar City brewing company.

11:22:00 Thank you.

11:22:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.

11:22:05 >>> My name is Bob Sylvester, I'm the president and

11:22:10 owner of St. Sell mer brewing in Tarpon Springs, so

11:22:17 technically a competitor here in support of Cigar City.

11:22:20 I see by the absence of Ms. Miller and Mr. Stokes at

11:22:24 the moment that their minds have been made up.

11:22:28 >> Say that very cautiously because that's not true.

11:22:33 I am going to tell you that's not true.

11:22:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There are televisions they are

11:22:37 watching in the back.

11:22:37 When we leave many times, we take breaks.

11:22:43 >> I apologize for that.

11:22:44 I didn't know.

11:22:45 But I can tell you from personal experience, the

11:22:48 industry that we are both in is one of the most highly

11:22:52 regulated and most overseen industries in the country.

11:22:57 I mean, we report to the TDT, ABT, they come out, they

11:23:04 visit, they take inventories, they want to know every

11:23:06 single thing that goes on every moment of the day.

11:23:11 Along with having a COP license, that adds another




11:23:15 layer of account accountability.

11:23:19 That they would have to answer to, and I think they

11:23:22 will answer to it well.

11:23:24 They have shown in the past two years that they have

11:23:28 been acting above-board, and also as few of the other

11:23:34 speakers have said, I would like to clear up a couple

11:23:36 of misconceptions about a tasting room.

11:23:39 The wine industry benefits from a more elevated

11:23:45 perception than the beer industry.

11:23:50 A lot of that has to do with the way beer has been

11:23:53 advertised over the period of the past 20 or 30 years.

11:23:57 Finally, that has turned around.

11:24:02 Brewers like myself and Cigar City have participated in

11:24:06 elevating craft beer to where it is now.

11:24:11 What we do is very difficult to get to the level we are

11:24:14 is very difficult.

11:24:15 To get to the level of Cigar City is near impossible.

11:24:19 They are really an asset to the community.

11:24:21 They do drive tourism.

11:24:23 We do have two tours coming through with people from

11:24:28 out of the city, out of the area and out of the country

11:24:30 in February through bon beer voyage beer tours, as well




11:24:36 as people from outside the country, people from Denmark

11:24:40 come to visit Cigar City.

11:24:44 A few communities in the country, Asheville, portland,

11:24:48 Oregon, Seattle, Washington, all benefit greatly from

11:24:52 the presence of higher-end craft breweries,

11:24:57 microbreweries.

11:24:59 They have embraced them.

11:25:00 We are just asking that this community embrace Cigar

11:25:04 City for what they can bring to the community.

11:25:09 And that's it.

11:25:09 Thank you very much.

11:25:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

11:25:12 Next speaker.

11:25:12 >> Good morning, City Council members.

11:25:16 My name is Mable Smith, and I come down here, I have

11:25:22 read the paper last week, and I am opposed to what was

11:25:28 said in the Florida senator about the brewing area, and

11:25:33 Mr. Joe Redner showing the area, what's going on.

11:25:37 At Carver City, with no disrespect, what the

11:25:40 neighborhood needs to watch, we got young children

11:25:47 crossing the street with no guard, with no guard, and

11:25:51 we got African-American kids, young men running around,




11:25:55 with due respect to Dr. Harvey, who is over the Carver

11:25:59 City and Lincoln Gardens community, and it's not the

11:26:03 brewing.

11:26:04 If it wasn't -- if somebody else was running it, would

11:26:09 there be so much said about it?

11:26:11 Would there be so much said about it if it was anybody

11:26:13 else?

11:26:13 It brings jobs in the community.

11:26:15 What about the kids crossing the street, or the traffic

11:26:19 in the dark?

11:26:20 What about the young men standing on Hubert it?

11:26:24 We got a big art community recreation center.

11:26:28 No one is not going there.

11:26:29 And I talk to some of the neighbors who stay directly a

11:26:34 across from the brewery and they did not want to come

11:26:36 down but they don't see nothing wrong with Mr. Redner,

11:26:39 is bringing jobs in the neighborhood.

11:26:41 And you have got a big empty building right across the

11:26:44 street, and doing right, doing good.

11:26:48 Other businesses ought to give opportunities of jobs in

11:26:51 that community.

11:26:52 And I brought an article, brought the clipping out of




11:26:56 the paper.

11:26:56 I don't want this to be no black-white issue.

11:26:59 We are just doing what's right and what you all vote

11:27:02 just what's right.

11:27:03 And the comments was made in the Florida senator.

11:27:06 I brought it.

11:27:09 The vote went along the color line, with councilman

11:27:14 Scott and Stokes and Miller voting no.

11:27:17 Councilman who is running for reelection voted yes.

11:27:23 Councilman Charlie Miranda who was absent and did not

11:27:28 vote.

11:27:28 Dr. Harvey, president of Lincoln garden city, said they

11:27:36 already approved the brewery and didn't, and that's

11:27:39 where we have a problem.

11:27:40 He's already in business.

11:27:42 We are not trying to put him out of business.

11:27:46 The City Council -- the City Council has allowed him to

11:27:50 operate with no waivers.

11:27:52 Then it goes, the waivers allowing one thousand feet.

11:27:57 Dr. Harvey says -- Dr. Harvey said the face of the

11:28:03 council has changed now and the reality of their own

11:28:07 representative Miranda has to decide whether he will




11:28:10 side.

11:28:12 We can go through the appeal process if we have to but

11:28:15 the political climate has changed, and further on

11:28:24 down -- I am not going to read it all.

11:28:25 And he goes, Councilwoman Gwen Miller says she tried to

11:28:29 convince her colleagues seeking a permanent wet zoning.

11:28:34 The residents that come before us we feel we ignored

11:28:38 them.

11:28:42 We feel that we have ignored them.

11:28:44 We come to the public hearing but they don't come.

11:28:46 (Bell sounds).

11:28:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.

11:28:48 Next speaker.

11:28:49 >> My name is Carl woodward.

11:28:54 I am owner and founder of the Saab store, 4025 west

11:28:59 Osborne, 33614.

11:29:02 We started here in Tampa in 1991.

11:29:05 Five of those years we were in Carver City so I know

11:29:08 the area well.

11:29:09 I am here in support of Cigar City.

11:29:13 I traveled a lot in the United States, and I hear

11:29:16 nothing but good things about this place.




11:29:18 I have talked to many people from Syracuse, New York to

11:29:22 Hawaii, that part of their travel destinations are

11:29:28 Cigar City brewing company so it is a huge tourist draw

11:29:31 for this area.

11:29:34 As far as traffic problems, I have been in and out of

11:29:36 this brewery for the last two years, many times, and

11:29:42 there's always plenty of parking.

11:29:44 I have never had problems getting in or out.

11:29:46 So there's not a traffic problem there.

11:29:47 The only traffic problem on Spruce is Home Depot up the

11:29:51 street.

11:29:53 As far as any rowdiness at this bar, it is not a rowdy

11:29:58 bar.

11:29:58 It is a place to see the fine art of craft brewing, and

11:30:06 that's what it is.

11:30:06 It's a fine art.

11:30:10 And the next thing is, a lot of people you see here,

11:30:16 that's their jobs.

11:30:17 How can we in this economy try to get rid of jobs?

11:30:21 Thank you.

11:30:27 >> My name is Paul kabony, president of Florida

11:30:32 beverage, one of Cigar City distributors in the State




11:30:35 of Florida.

11:30:36 We don't cover the Tampa area but we cover a good

11:30:38 amount of land mass in the State of Florida.

11:30:41 We do operate in Tampa.

11:30:43 I understand Tampa very well.

11:30:45 95% of my business is craft beer.

11:30:47 And I can tell you that craft beers need their tasting

11:30:52 rooms to market.

11:30:53 You won't see a NASCAR with a craft logo on it.

11:30:58 You won't see its image at the Super Bowl.

11:31:02 This is the way that these brands market their

11:31:05 products.

11:31:06 And Cigar City has become a world known brand.

11:31:11 And that has helped the City of Tampa and Florida.

11:31:15 I have retailers that are setting up trips to come to

11:31:18 Tampa from Jacksonville, Orlando, and also Tallahassee.

11:31:23 And the next 30 to 45 days.

11:31:27 Those people will not just come to the brewery.

11:31:29 They will go out and eat, they will go to other

11:31:33 locations, and spend money before they leave town.

11:31:35 They may even get hotel rooms.

11:31:38 They bring business.




11:31:39 Cigar City brings business to Tampa.

11:31:41 And as you know, business brings tax dollars.

11:31:45 So I also should let now that in 2007, we started our

11:31:52 company with four people.

11:31:54 Cigar City is the fifth largest brand.

11:31:57 And we are now at 20 people.

11:31:59 So in 2011, first quarter, I plan to hire another four

11:32:10 people.

11:32:10 It's due to brands like this that I can do that and

11:32:13 hopefully take the dent out of the unemployment in the

11:32:16 State of Florida.

11:32:16 Thank you for your time.

11:32:19 >> I live on Westlawn Avenue in South Tampa so pretty

11:32:26 well aware of what bars can do to the neighborhoods.

11:32:29 First I would like to say I would like to have ten

11:32:31 Cigar Cities right next door to me than one drink on

11:32:34 the corner of Platt and Howard listening to that stuff

11:32:37 at 2:00 in the motorcycle Cigar City.

11:32:40 It's not a bar.

11:32:41 It's a tasting room.

11:32:42 I am the Executive Director of the Florida brewery

11:32:44 build, 501 C 6.




11:32:51 We have members down to Key West.

11:32:53 These are all small businesses, local businesses.

11:32:55 They employ local people.

11:32:56 They are craftsmen.

11:32:57 They are taking products and creating artistic

11:33:00 beverages.

11:33:01 We make .5002 of the total amount of brewed beer

11:33:06 produced in Florida, less than two 100,000ths of a

11:33:13 percent.

11:33:14 These guys are creating fan takes tech beverages.

11:33:16 They are huge in support of the community.

11:33:18 A big issue has been brought up is tourism.

11:33:20 Beer tourism is huge all over the world.

11:33:22 People are coming and traveling just to taste the

11:33:25 artistic beverages that you can't get anywhere else

11:33:28 except at the breweries.

11:33:29 Again, reiterating people are going to come, stay in

11:33:33 hotels, eat at local restaurants.

11:33:35 These people support local restaurants.

11:33:38 They are not going to Olive Garden or things like that.

11:33:41 They are going to Tampa Bay brewing company.

11:33:43 They are spending dollars throughout the community.




11:33:45 Another issue that was brought up is economies of

11:33:48 scale.

11:33:48 When you look at Anheuser-Busch plant in Jacksonville

11:33:52 that makes 9 billion-barrels of beer, Cigar City is

11:33:56 doing 2 to 3,000.

11:33:58 It takes a lot of manpower.

11:34:00 It's not automated.

11:34:01 It's physical labor.

11:34:02 These gays love what they do. It's not robots that are

11:34:06 making the beer.

11:34:07 It's not computer programs that are running the

11:34:09 fermenters.

11:34:09 It's people actually doing the job.

11:34:12 It is about jobs.

11:34:12 The tasting room allows the brewery to actually fund

11:34:16 their growth, be able to fund the ability to hire new

11:34:19 employees.

11:34:19 Without the tasting rooms, that's not going to happen.

11:34:23 The State of Florida is built for Anheuser built.

11:34:27 It's not built for Cigar City.

11:34:29 These guys need the tasting room to be successful.

11:34:31 Thank you.




11:34:33 >> Joe Clark, a 5 Lake Shore drive.

11:34:40 I'm one of the lucky 22 that gets to work for Joey

11:34:43 Redner.

11:34:43 I'm here to urge you --

11:34:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Excuse me, did you testify last week,

11:34:48 the week behalf before last?

11:34:50 >> No, sir.

11:34:51 I haven't been here before.

11:34:53 >> Go ahead.

11:34:53 >> Like I said I'm one of the lucky ones.

11:34:56 I'm proud to work for Joey Redner at Cigar City

11:34:58 brewing.

11:34:59 I'm a craft beer enthusiast.

11:35:05 I love to come be part of the local Tampa community

11:35:08 working for Cigar City.

11:35:09 We do our best to export our culture, our Tampa Bay

11:35:12 culture to the rest of the.

11:35:14 Of the world and the rest of the state.

11:35:16 It's been mentioned many times a lot of beer tourism

11:35:19 comes to Tampa because of what we are doing at Cigar

11:35:22 City brewing.

11:35:25 If you guys do not vote in favor of this nine people




11:35:27 could lose their job just in time for Christmas because

11:35:30 they will be forced to lay off our tasting room staff.

11:35:33 These are all great guys that love what they do, and we

11:35:35 are all very proud to export this Tampa culture.

11:35:40 I hope your vote will assure me that made the right

11:35:42 decision to come work and pay taxes and spend money in

11:35:45 the Tampa Bay area and I would love to leave you by

11:35:49 saying I'm a craft beer enthusiast and a good neighbor.

11:35:52 Thank you.

11:35:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

11:35:54 Next speaker.

11:35:54 >> 122 Mitchell drive, Tampa, Florida.

11:36:00 I'm one of the 22 employees.

11:36:02 My job is in the tasting room.

11:36:04 I would be directly affected by this decision.

11:36:06 The staff has really helped me in many way, been

11:36:09 flexible in schedule in the fact that I have a

11:36:11 grandmother at home that suffers from dementia.

11:36:17 Due to this bills have gone out of control.

11:36:19 This job has helped us get balance back in the

11:36:21 household.

11:36:21 It's as far as a caretaker.




11:36:27 As far as recklessness I have never seen any in the

11:36:30 brewery.

11:36:30 Been there since day one pretty much.

11:36:33 I work four days a week.

11:36:34 I have seen nothing that indicates some of these

11:36:36 accusations that I have heard towards us.

11:36:38 It's been great.

11:36:39 I meet people from all over the nation; the world,

11:36:42 people are excited.

11:36:44 People that drive from Orlando.

11:36:45 And on their Disney vacations.

11:36:47 We left the kids with the grandparents, and we took an

11:36:51 hour drive over, had to come to Cigar City.

11:36:53 I go et that from Sarasota, Miami, everywhere.

11:36:57 I really don't think we are doing any harm to anyone.

11:36:59 And I really hope you see it our way.

11:37:01 Thank you.

11:37:06 >> E.P. Turso, 4606 Kilgorn court, Tampa, Florida, also

11:37:14 one of the 22 employees.

11:37:15 About 50% of my job is to give the tours.

11:37:19 So people come in to the tasting room.

11:37:22 They will actually have a beer, will walk around the




11:37:28 brewery, I go through the whole process.

11:37:30 People are so thrilled to see what we are doing with

11:37:34 the community.

11:37:35 And if we got shut down, we would lose a lot of those

11:37:40 people coming through to check us out, because it

11:37:43 wouldn't be any place for them to relax and enjoy the

11:37:46 products.

11:37:46 They would only be able to look and not be able to

11:37:49 taste or anything like that.

11:37:51 So this right here would affect a lot of my job as

11:37:54 well.

11:37:55 And I hope you guys do vote in favor.

11:38:00 And the rowdiest I have ever seen that bar is over a

11:38:03 friendly game of darts.

11:38:04 I have never seen anyone ever get hammered or drunk or

11:38:09 anything like that.

11:38:10 They are all friendly people, blue collar people,

11:38:13 coming in out of work, wanting to check the place out,

11:38:17 and, you know, the only time I ever see it get out of

11:38:21 control is maybe a darts game.

11:38:23 That is it.

11:38:24 So I would like to say thank you.




11:38:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.

11:38:29 >> My name is Hampton Dohrman, 1813 East 18th

11:38:36 Avenue, 33605.

11:38:38 I am a nonprofit arts manager and a community advocate,

11:38:42 and I am here to speak on behalf of Cigar City and the

11:38:46 efforts they take in the community.

11:38:49 I met Joey and Wayne, I think January of last year.

11:38:54 I had an art gallery called five art gallery named best

11:38:59 art gallery in Tampa for 2009, in the cigar factory at

11:39:04 Howard and Spruce.

11:39:07 I have walked into the warehouse, and Joey and Wayne

11:39:10 were literally sitting on the floor trying to figure

11:39:13 out how to assemble one of their brewery distillers or

11:39:19 something like that.

11:39:20 I spoke to Joey and said, hey, I have an art gallery on

11:39:24 the streets, do you do any support?

11:39:26 Without batting an eye, he said absolutely.

11:39:28 The first thing they brought to the gallery looked like

11:39:30 sort of cryogenic experiments with tubes and things

11:39:33 going all over the place.

11:39:35 Since then, Joey and Cigar City brewing have sponsored

11:39:40 more than half a dozen cultural events, visual art




11:39:45 shows, music events, things that take creative approach

11:39:48 to children and literacy, and I never have to ask Joey

11:39:54 twice for anything like that.

11:39:55 So speaking in support of how good neighbors they are,

11:39:58 and how valuable an asset they are to the community,

11:40:02 not only are they bringing jobs and tourist dollars,

11:40:08 but they are doing it in a very authentic cultural way

11:40:12 by incorporating the other great attributes of the City

11:40:15 of Tampa like beers make guava made with coffee, so

11:40:21 encourage the City Council to approve whatever they

11:40:23 want.

11:40:24 If I were on City Council I would just give them

11:40:26 anything they asked for.

11:40:28 [ Laughter ]

11:40:31 If there are legitimate concerns in terms of, you know,

11:40:35 100-foot setbacks or any of those sort of technicality

11:40:40 minutia, I would love to see the council show visionary

11:40:43 leadership and find solutions to those problems rather

11:40:46 than hiding behind the problems themselves.

11:40:50 Thank you.

11:40:55 >> Good morning.

11:40:56 My name is Matt Abdeney, 1202 East Broad Street Tampa,




11:41:03 Florida.

11:41:03 I'm a 21-year resident of Tampa, went to Mitchell

11:41:07 element remit, Wilson middle school, Plant High School,

11:41:10 graduated HCC, graduate of USF.

11:41:14 My heart resides in Tampa.

11:41:17 I have a huge passion for Tampa and being a good

11:41:21 citizen of Tampa.

11:41:24 I am a distributor of Cigar City beer.

11:41:30 I am almost a ten-year friend of Joey Redner, Jr.

11:41:36 And I will tell you my experiences with Cigar City have

11:41:38 been nothing but positive from day one.

11:41:44 I was fortunate enough to conceptualize Cigar City

11:41:47 brewery years before its actual conception, physically,

11:41:52 and they have been nothing but a positive attribute for

11:41:54 our community.

11:41:57 I deal with over 50 craft brewers and specialty brewers

11:42:01 from around the world, and many of these suppliers come

11:42:04 to town very frequently.

11:42:06 Just yesterday I had the owner, president of a very

11:42:09 reputable brewery in Boulder, Colorado, which is one of

11:42:12 the best brewing communities in the country, and he had

11:42:14 nothing but rave reviews to say of Cigar City.




11:42:18 Every time someone from the brewing community comes to

11:42:20 town, they want to visit Cigar City.

11:42:23 They do visit us locally when they are here.

11:42:28 They do use our local hotels.

11:42:30 And they also want to be part of the passion and fire

11:42:36 that is behind Cigar City brewery.

11:42:39 A personal experience, I was in the brewery with an

11:42:42 associate, and a supply a couple of weeks ago.

11:42:45 I got to meet five gentlemen, indicated they are from

11:42:51 the financial banking segment, and I struck up a

11:42:54 conversation with them.

11:42:55 They noted that whenever they have clients in town they

11:43:00 bring them to Cigar City brewery so it is a tourist

11:43:03 attraction, as is Bern's steakhouse, a connoisseurship

11:43:09 rather than a loose luxury, if you will.

11:43:13 So thank you very much.

11:43:14 Please vote the tasting room.

11:43:17 Thank you.

11:43:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker it.

11:43:22 >> Cory stirman, Tampa, Florida 33613.

11:43:29 I was born in Tampa, Jesuit, graduated from USF, and

11:43:33 while I went to USF, for six years I worked at a




11:43:38 restaurant that specialized in craft beers, foreign

11:43:42 beers, stuff like that.

11:43:43 And to serve at this restaurant, go to other bars it's

11:43:46 one thing to have, you know, local beer on draft.

11:43:48 And it really matters and it's the kind of thing you

11:43:50 can be proud of.

11:43:53 Cigar City, people think of Sam Adams, they think of

11:43:57 Boston.

11:43:57 Some day Cigar City, the same thing, a tour books kind

11:44:00 of thing.

11:44:01 People come to visit.

11:44:02 My friends in Orlando come.

11:44:05 They are looking forward to coming.

11:44:07 They will be here in town.

11:44:08 They come to this town to go to the tasting room.

11:44:12 They come to Cigar City.

11:44:14 And I just really think that you should let them have

11:44:17 that.

11:44:18 Thank you.

11:44:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

11:44:19 Next speaker.

11:44:23 >> Resident of Carver City.




11:44:33 Carver City is a neighborhood being impacted by traffic

11:44:35 already.

11:44:37 Joe showed you a map of total wines but if you look,

11:44:41 there is a detour for the traffic to go back towards

11:44:44 Dale Mabry.

11:44:47 BP, I may be wrong about the name, but it sells gas.

11:44:50 The people take the gas, take their beer home.

11:44:54 Total wine does, too

11:44:55 Taste of beer, I would like for the police department

11:44:58 to sit right there, pull over so many cars and see if

11:45:03 they pass the level about the drinking limit.

11:45:07 Okay.

11:45:08 That's one good thing.

11:45:09 Now we have been fighting transportation to keep the

11:45:12 traffic out and detour and go out of Carver City.

11:45:16 We don't want Ybor City.

11:45:20 These are tax paying people.

11:45:23 We don't want Ybor City.

11:45:26 Now what I'm saying?

11:45:29 And the children in the neighborhood, we plan on

11:45:32 getting rid of that, too.

11:45:34 And by right by the park, 301 over there, right by the




11:45:38 church, we are trying to get alcohol and drugs out of

11:45:42 our black community, not impacting.

11:45:44 And City Council, people that voted you in is white.

11:45:51 Just like anybody, oh, you can have some beer.

11:45:54 These people, come on, don't speak what's right.

11:46:01 Okay?

11:46:06 We need to come back together.

11:46:07 We are trying to work with the preachers and the police

11:46:11 department to raise our children to get them back on

11:46:13 the right path.

11:46:14 Look at your schoolhouses.

11:46:19 So let's get back to doing the right things by family.

11:46:26 Get the police to pull over brothers and sisters having

11:46:32 a tavern or beer in my neighborhood.

11:46:36 A lot of these people can't come down here and talk

11:46:39 about it, what I'm trying to say.

11:46:41 You understand what I'm saying?

11:46:42 The children are being hurt.

11:46:44 And there's only so many ways out of Carver City.

11:46:47 And we have been working with transportation.

11:46:49 It's all in your records.

11:46:53 Everybody tasting some alcohol.




11:46:58 Does that make sense?

11:47:01 Hmmm?

11:47:01 No.

11:47:02 So a lot of these people aren't from my neighborhood.

11:47:08 These people are taxpayers.

11:47:09 They raised children.

11:47:11 They have done good.

11:47:13 And we are trying to get people off of the corners, and

11:47:18 not seeing this type of place.

11:47:22 And we have been very impacted by traffic.

11:47:25 All the other places have a detour.

11:47:27 We have been working with the -- begging City Councils

11:47:30 to do right by the neighborhood.

11:47:32 And we have got to go through this and that.

11:47:42 Anybody killed by alcohol.

11:47:45 If anybody got something against it you can join in.

11:47:50 (Bell sounds).

11:47:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right, thank you.

11:47:56 Next speaker.

11:47:57 Thank you.

11:48:00 Your time is up, sir.

11:48:02 Next speaker.




11:48:02 >> My name is Doug, 15th Avenue south in Gulfport,

11:48:10 Florida, a production manager over at cigar industry

11:48:12 city.

11:48:12 Not to correct everybody who has already spoken but I

11:48:15 believe we are actually at 23 employees.

11:48:17 Number 23 is sitting in the back right there.

11:48:19 Just added yesterday.

11:48:20 So we are still growing.

11:48:22 22 is not the limit.

11:48:24 What has fueled that growth is the tasting room.

11:48:27 As people said, we don't have millions of dollars to

11:48:29 throw into advertising and flashy ads and iguanas

11:48:34 talking on trees.

11:48:35 We feel that people coming to our brewery face to face

11:48:39 with us that kind of interaction is what grows our

11:48:42 business.

11:48:42 And if we have that the business will fall and all of

11:48:45 those people will be out of work including myself.

11:48:48 I want to keep my job.

11:48:49 I'm asking City Council to let me keep my job.

11:48:52 I would also like to say that Cigar City builds on a

11:48:56 very rich history.




11:48:58 And we don't just take a little bit of history an put

11:49:00 it on the label.

11:49:01 We use locally grown products wherever we can.

11:49:04 We use local coffee, lemon leaves.

11:49:10 Foraged.

11:49:11 That is as local as it gets.

11:49:13 So we take literally take and we put it into an

11:49:17 artistic, well-received craft beverage that is world

11:49:20 renowned.

11:49:21 I have traveled around the country with the brewery.

11:49:24 And when we first traveled, Cigar City, now it's Cigar

11:49:28 City, I want to talk to you, I want to meet you P.and

11:49:32 we tell them about Tampa.

11:49:33 People come down to our brewery, to taste our product.

11:49:38 And, yes, they stay here, they spend money here.

11:49:42 It's a feather in Tampa's cap and I would like to ask

11:49:45 City Council to not pass up this opportunity to keep in

11:49:49 the there.

11:49:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

11:49:51 Next speaker.

11:49:51 >> Sean Marquis, 19th Avenue north, St. Petersburg,

11:49:57 Florida.




11:49:58 I'm actually a writer for freelance writer.

11:50:00 I do write for creative loafing.

11:50:03 Pi also write for the hot press, as well as

11:50:08 Alexander.com and of course my own blog.

11:50:11 I have been a craft beer writer now for a little

11:50:13 over -- almost two years now, and my very first

11:50:16 interview was with Joey, who graciously took that time,

11:50:21 just as they were really getting going to tell me what

11:50:23 they were doing, about being part of the community,

11:50:26 about working with the community.

11:50:28 I wanted to have something for Tampa to be proud of and

11:50:31 because for a long time the rest of the country and the

11:50:34 world looked at Florida as a beer wasteland, which to

11:50:38 be fair kind of was.

11:50:42 One of the misconceptions, and people referred to the

11:50:45 tasting room as a bar, and really to call the tasting

11:50:48 room a bar is like calling AP gallery for an artist

11:50:54 studio as a retail shop.

11:50:57 Because what's going on there, if you have true masters

11:51:01 of their craft, displaying their wares, offer their

11:51:06 wares people there to enjoy it.

11:51:08 People come there to enjoy them.




11:51:10 They don't just grab one and leave and don't talk about

11:51:12 it.

11:51:12 People come, they come hover from St. Petersburg, they

11:51:15 come from Orlando, from South Beach, Jacksonville,

11:51:19 Detroit, California, Canada, Europe, and they come and

11:51:24 they tasted beers and they talk about how great they

11:51:26 are.

11:51:26 Then they tell their friends about their trip to Tampa

11:51:29 and say, yes, here is the hotel I stay in, here are the

11:51:32 restaurants I stayed in, and they are not Olive Garden,

11:51:34 they went to the refinery, they went to decks, they

11:51:38 went to Tampa Bay brewing company, they talk about

11:51:40 these local businesses and more people come and spend

11:51:42 more money in Tampa.

11:51:44 The craft beer community is throughout the world talk

11:51:49 to each other.

11:51:50 I talk to people all over the country and all over the

11:51:52 world on AP daily base business what's going on in the

11:51:55 craft beer world.

11:51:56 People are paying attention to Tampa.

11:51:57 And largely through the efforts of Cigar City and Joey

11:52:01 Redner.




11:52:02 People want to come to Tampa to visit Cigar City, and

11:52:06 to see the beer culture that is growing here.

11:52:09 That's good for everybody.

11:52:11 The money gets spent here.

11:52:12 The money stays here.

11:52:14 And I had an argument actually with a gentleman from

11:52:18 Britain who said when this whole council meeting

11:52:23 discussion came up, he said, oh, that's what happens

11:52:25 when you have no beer culture.

11:52:27 And I said, we have a beer culture in Florida.

11:52:30 Help me prove him wrong.

11:52:31 Thank you.

11:52:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

11:52:35 Next speaker.

11:52:37 >> My name is Bill Leon, 5637 forest haven circle,

11:52:42 Tampa 333615.

11:52:47 It seems that the City Council is frustrated, way heard

11:52:52 them say is they have had to waiver and compromise over

11:52:54 and over again, and I can understand why that build

11:52:59 tension and on their part beings and it seems that they

11:53:02 are really invested so they can't turn around even

11:53:04 though -- probably wouldn't start over in this




11:53:09 direction.

11:53:13 When I read the controversy, I immediately said, it

11:53:16 doesn't make sense to me.

11:53:18 What?

11:53:18 These are the things they are complaining about?

11:53:20 None of it is anything I have seen.

11:53:21 And I popped in there once or twice a week.

11:53:24 And I think I might even be their rowdiest customer and

11:53:29 they don't even really know me by name, but I tipped

11:53:37 over a little beer that was in a glass and I said, oh,

11:53:40 that's a first.

11:53:41 I don't think I have ever seen it happen here before.

11:53:43 Everybody said that.

11:53:44 And tip over a little glass and spill a couple of

11:53:48 tablespoons.

11:53:49 That's as rowdy as it gets in there.

11:53:54 I don't know that I ever pulled into the parking lot

11:53:56 and had anybody else right behind me.

11:53:58 I don't know if I ever pulled out and had anybody else

11:54:01 trying to get in.

11:54:02 It's always pretty easy.

11:54:04 There's about 10 on a busy day, 10, 15 people in there.




11:54:08 I usually sit next to people that are fathers and

11:54:11 grandfathers, and successors.

11:54:14 You can tell it.

11:54:16 You can smell it.

11:54:16 You can see that they are accomplished.

11:54:19 They are usually smarter than me and I'm really pretty

11:54:23 smart.

11:54:24 [ Laughter ]

11:54:24 And it's a point of light that place.

11:54:28 And I'm kind of new to the craft beer thing.

11:54:30 It's a point of life light and it's priss Tinley a

11:54:33 point of light, I think.

11:54:35 I love that at any given time you can ask one of the

11:54:38 guys that work there, hey, could you give me friend Jim

11:54:41 a quick tour of the brewery?

11:54:42 And Jim brews at home.

11:54:44 And they say, oh, yeah, come on.

11:54:47 And you get this really cool tour.

11:54:49 It's friendly.

11:54:50 Most of the people that go in there are beer nerds.

11:54:56 And I love the term nerds.

11:54:58 I love nerds.




11:55:00 And they created all the cool stuff.

11:55:02 And these guys are creating beer.

11:55:05 And whereas other people are creating iPods and

11:55:10 cell phones that talk to satellites.

11:55:13 And I just couldn't see anything that hold water on the

11:55:17 argument side against them.

11:55:19 And I'm happy that I actually followed through it and

11:55:21 showed up like I said I would hope to.

11:55:24 That's it.

11:55:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

11:55:27 Next speaker.

11:55:31 >> My name is Chris falamina, west San Juan.

11:55:37 I also work at creative loafing.

11:55:39 I am not a writer.

11:55:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me just interrupt for a minute.

11:55:42 It is now about five minutes to 12:00 and I see more

11:55:47 speakers rising.

11:55:48 Council, do you all -- I mean,we get into a timing

11:55:55 issue at this point.

11:55:55 We do have an appeal hearing that's set.

11:55:59 So our rule calls for us to break at 12:00.

11:56:03 Is that right, Mr. Shelby?




11:56:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Unless you decide otherwise,

11:56:07 Mr. Chairman.

11:56:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So my suggestion is if there's new

11:56:14 evidence, if you don't have nothing knew to kind of

11:56:17 limit it so we won't carry this into the afternoon.

11:56:19 Otherwise we will be coming back here at 1:30.

11:56:21 >>> I have a couple of things I would like to share.

11:56:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Go right ahead.

11:56:25 >> Wonderful.

11:56:25 Like I said, I work at creative loafing.

11:56:28 I am not the gentleman responsible for misquoting you,

11:56:31 sir.

11:56:31 But I am what would be called a sponsor development

11:56:39 roll over at creative loafing.

11:56:43 It's a fancy way of saying I'm a salesperson.

11:56:45 I have been working with Joey when it was just Joey and

11:56:49 Wayne when it was in its embryonic state.

11:56:52 Since that time they have been nothing but amazing

11:56:54 community partners.

11:56:55 They have supported us on numerous indications where we

11:56:58 offered to have their proceeds benefit various

11:57:03 charities from Hampton's charities that you spoke of




11:57:05 earlier to right now they are currently helping us

11:57:09 support the children's home with two wonderful items on

11:57:11 our auction.

11:57:13 These guys are truly Tampa ambassadors as well.

11:57:17 They are using local ingredients.

11:57:19 They are putting the name Tampa in front of people in

11:57:23 beer regions that do not know of Tampa.

11:57:26 Portland, Oregon, Seattle, Washington, Boulder,

11:57:30 Colorado, even upstate New York.

11:57:32 They are using local ingredients, and they are

11:57:34 stimulating the local economy.

11:57:36 They are actually a special beer, and I don't know if I

11:57:39 should be saying it but as a salesperson I hear lots of

11:57:41 things.

11:57:42 Booker T. and company are supplying to have a special

11:57:47 beer produced.

11:57:48 This is something that could not be done without the

11:57:50 vision that Joey brings to the table.

11:57:54 I have been there on numerous occasions.

11:57:56 Obviously I am in direct contact working with Joey.

11:57:59 I have never on my multiple visits seen anything

11:58:02 disrespectful or rowdy or anything else like that.




11:58:07 The no traffic issues, aside from Home Depot, which I'm

11:58:11 sure everybody is aware of including the residents at

11:58:13 the neighborhood.

11:58:15 The five or ten people that may trickle in or out of

11:58:19 the brewery at any given time for a tour is not

11:58:21 impacting the neighborhood negatively.

11:58:24 All it's doing is putting Tampa on the map in a

11:58:27 positive fashion.

11:58:29 Finally I would like to address the word "bar"

11:58:32 constantly being used.

11:58:33 It's not a bar.

11:58:34 It's a tasting room.

11:58:35 It's where samples are done.

11:58:36 There's not imbibing.

11:58:38 It's not overindulgence.

11:58:40 It's samplings samples.

11:58:42 They are sampling their wares so they can sell more so

11:58:44 they can continue to have Tampa represented in a

11:58:47 polite.

11:58:48 I urge to you keep these 23 now jobs available so they

11:58:52 can continue to spend tax dollars.

11:58:54 Thank you.




11:58:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.

11:58:59 What's the pleasure of council?

11:59:00 We have two minutes to 12.

11:59:02 I need to know.

11:59:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I can tell you one thing,

11:59:06 Mr. Chairman.

11:59:07 I don't know what new evidence can be brought up.

11:59:09 Even the same speaker said he had something new, spoke

11:59:13 about the same evidence that was said 20 times earlier.

11:59:17 I mean, I'm willing to stay, but I'm not coming back at

11:59:21 1:30.

11:59:21 I have an appointment that is very important.

11:59:28 I mean, if they have new evidence, I'm willing to do

11:59:31 whatever is necessary.

11:59:32 But even the former speaker that just spoke said it was

11:59:35 something new, and if you check the record, there's

11:59:39 nothing new.

11:59:41 So I'm not opposed to anyone speaking.

11:59:44 I'm opposed to anyone being redundant with the evidence

11:59:47 because it's already on the record on both sides.

11:59:51 That's what I'm saying.

11:59:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council?




11:59:55 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Maybe the two speakers --

11:59:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, at this point our rules say we

11:59:59 break at 12.

12:00:01 It's one minute to 12.

12:00:02 I need to know what the pleasure of council is at this

12:00:04 point.

12:00:04 >>MARY MULHERN: Maybe finish the agenda item, and we

12:00:15 are going to have to come back for the second one, for

12:00:18 the last agenda item on our meeting.

12:00:21 So if we come back for that at 1:30.

12:00:26 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I second it.

12:00:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So we continue this item?

12:00:30 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.

12:00:31 And I would like to kind of second what Mr. Miranda was

12:00:34 saying.

12:00:35 We have heard a lot of testimony.

12:00:36 And I think this council is probably ready to vote.

12:00:39 So unless you do have something, a new fact to

12:00:44 present -- please, if you would like to speak, we don't

12:00:51 want to tell anyone not to speak.

12:00:52 We want to hear from you.

12:00:54 So just keep it to something that we haven't already




12:00:56 heard.

12:00:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, there's a motion that we

12:00:59 continue this item.

12:01:00 Moved and seconded.

12:01:01 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

12:01:03 Opposes?

12:01:04 Okay.

12:01:05 It is my understanding after this item we will break

12:01:07 for lunch.

12:01:08 Is that right?

12:01:09 And come back, staff will have to come back for the

12:01:11 appeal, which we have to set time, depending on when we

12:01:17 wrap this up.

12:01:17 Next speaker.

12:01:18 >> Theodore Scott.

12:01:19 My address is 4511 west Scott lane, Tampa, Florida.

12:01:27 My background is 38 years in finance and accounting in

12:01:32 higher education.

12:01:33 So consequently, I will be the last one that would be

12:01:38 against anything of economic development.

12:01:43 However, I like to point out something.

12:01:50 In talking about how this community is business




12:01:52 intensive.

12:01:53 And they talk about the last 40 or 50 years.

12:01:56 My family moved out in the Carver City area 57 years

12:02:02 ago, and at that time, there was no WalMart, there was

12:02:10 no Mons Venus, there was none of the businesses that

12:02:13 you see there presently now.

12:02:16 The only two businesses that were there was central

12:02:20 trucking line that was on the corner of Spruce and Dale

12:02:24 Mabry, and then Jim Walters moved in a few years later.

12:02:30 But that was not a business intensive area.

12:02:34 And that's one thing I want to make clear.

12:02:37 All of this has been developed around this community at

12:02:44 such a point to its development.

12:02:46 Now, we talk about the traffic, no problems there.

12:02:54 The Carver City lien can garden area, especially Carver

12:02:57 City, has really been gutted by the expansion of the

12:03:01 Lois Avenue area.

12:03:02 It runs right through the heart of that community.

12:03:05 It also has brought about a number of drivers driving

12:03:12 up through there the neighborhood that other people

12:03:15 don't see.

12:03:20 And with the exception of one person, all of these




12:03:25 people who are talking are outside of the community.

12:03:28 Now you might say that I'm outside of it.

12:03:30 But I have a house where I told you in the Carrollwood

12:03:35 area but I stay with my mother every night.

12:03:37 I have been doing this for approximately the last three

12:03:39 years.

12:03:40 I have six other relatives who still live in the Carver

12:03:43 City lien can garden area.

12:03:46 And, you know, this is just one thing that we are

12:03:50 tackling right now.

12:03:51 But we have many problems out there.

12:03:52 They talk about youth.

12:03:54 We work with all forms of problems out in that area.

12:03:57 And I have to commend Mr. Redner for hiring 23

12:04:03 employees.

12:04:04 I think that's commendable.

12:04:05 But I would like to say I hope that he becomes an equal

12:04:10 employment employer.

12:04:15 I also would like to say that we are not opposed to

12:04:20 this type of business.

12:04:22 We are just opposed to where it's located.

12:04:26 I have worked in real estate for about 30 or 40 years,




12:04:31 although I am not active now.

12:04:32 But I could find many locations for that brewery.

12:04:36 We just don't want in the our community.

12:04:39 The young man that got up a few minutes ago that talked

12:04:41 about how we are trying to keep it family oriented,

12:04:46 well, we can't do it.

12:04:49 It's just one more thing, they are already out there,

12:04:51 let them go.

12:04:51 (Bell sounds)

12:04:54 Thank you.

12:04:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

12:04:54 >> Rebecca Kert, legal department.

12:04:58 Before the applicant gets rebuttal, I just wanted to

12:05:00 make a couple of clarifications for the record

12:05:02 purposes.

12:05:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I have a series of questions I

12:05:07 would like to ask staff.

12:05:07 >>REBECCA KERT: Okay.

12:05:08 Would you like to do that before I make my

12:05:09 clarification?

12:05:10 >> Do you want to make your clarification now or wait

12:05:13 until I get through?




12:05:16 >> That's fine.

12:05:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

12:05:17 Council, first of all let me just say, I think I need

12:05:21 to speak to the issue of economic development.

12:05:23 I don't think any of us here oppose economic

12:05:25 development, and job creation.

12:05:27 I think that the issue is more or less when we have

12:05:32 something to come before us, we have to make a decision

12:05:34 based on the facts before us.

12:05:36 I think we all recognize that we have liquor lay sense

12:05:42 and wet zoning coming before us all the time where a

12:05:44 person talks about job creation or people being hired,

12:05:48 as well as restaurants.

12:05:51 So a lot of times, the vote is based on the evidence

12:05:56 that's before us based on the public testimony.

12:05:59 Just a few weeks ago, now what happened to us, I

12:06:04 opposed that and voted for it and we had a room full of

12:06:07 neighborhood citizens in the building.

12:06:10 You know that creates jobs.

12:06:13 Other restaurants that create jobs.

12:06:18 Mangroves.

12:06:20 So to say we are opposed to economic development, jobs,




12:06:22 that's inaccurate.

12:06:23 We as elected individuals have responsibility to do due

12:06:27 diligence and hear from the public and make sure that

12:06:29 we have evidence based on the decision that is made by

12:06:31 this council.

12:06:32 I want that reflected.

12:06:34 In fact, just the week laugh last, we had a sign issue,

12:06:39 and we had a room full of community folks that opposed

12:06:42 it.

12:06:43 So, I mean, they certainly provide jobs.

12:06:48 [ Laughter ]

12:06:48 So we had to base our decision on the evidence and the

12:06:51 fact before us.

12:06:52 Now, with that being said, I think we need to be clear,

12:06:55 Ms. Feeley -- you need to come forward -- tell us today

12:06:59 why we are hear.

12:06:59 Go back to 2008.

12:07:00 Why is this petition before us?

12:07:04 I need to be very clear.

12:07:05 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land Development Coordination.

12:07:10 I do want to be clear, because under the CI, commercial

12:07:14 intensive zoning district, that this property is zoned,




12:07:18 a microbrewery can exist there, and distribution can

12:07:22 exist there without a special use for alcohol.

12:07:25 Okay.

12:07:25 So I do want to make that clear.

12:07:27 If this is denied today the brewery could still stay

12:07:30 there in operation and continue to didn't.

12:07:32 They could not have a tasting room.

12:07:34 Okay?

12:07:35 That is what is before you today is the tasting room.

12:07:38 In 2008, the petition came before you, and council

12:07:45 elected to vote, and the petitioner accepted a one-year

12:07:50 conditional approval --

12:07:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Hold it right there, just right there.

12:07:53 Let's go back.

12:07:55 So everybody knows I vote consistently when it came

12:07:57 before.

12:07:58 Now, the issue is that the brewery could exist, it

12:08:00 couldn't have a tasting room.

12:08:02 Is that right?

12:08:03 >>> Correct.

12:08:04 Microbrewery with distribution is an allowable use.

12:08:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: But the reason they are before us is




12:08:09 because to have the tasting room, they do not meet the

12:08:12 requirement.

12:08:13 Is that accurate?

12:08:15 >>> For consumption on the premises --

12:08:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: For consumption on the premises, and

12:08:19 therefore, in your report, in order for them to do

12:08:22 that, you have outlined three waivers must be granted.

12:08:28 Is that accurate?

12:08:29 >>> That's correct.

12:08:31 >>: So, again, Mr. Redner has to understand, he said

12:08:35 it's his right, based on the ordinance that City

12:08:43 Council passed some time ago, they cannot exist without

12:08:46 coming before this council in terms of the tasting

12:08:49 room, and that these requirements being waived.

12:08:52 Is that accurate?

12:08:54 >>> That is correct.

12:08:56 They would still come before you even if they did not

12:08:58 have waivers to that distance separation, because the

12:09:01 alcohol for consumption on premises is a special use.

12:09:06 On that property.

12:09:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Going to my point again.

12:09:10 Again, because they do not meet the requirement in




12:09:14 terms of distance separation, is that accurate?

12:09:17 I mean in, your report.

12:09:18 >> Waivers for distance separation, yes.

12:09:22 1,000 feet to 820 for other establishments selling

12:09:25 alcoholic beverage, 1,000 feet to 97 feet to

12:09:28 residential.

12:09:29 >> To what?

12:09:30 >> To residential.

12:09:31 >> To what?

12:09:32 >> To residential.

12:09:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 97 feet to what?

12:09:36 >> Residential use.

12:09:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 97 feet from 1,000 feet to

12:09:40 residential?

12:09:43 Are you sure that's accurate?

12:09:45 Move from 1,000 fate to 97 feet to residential?

12:09:50 >> If I may.

12:09:56 Eric brought me the zoning atlas.

12:09:57 This is the CI property, the red line.

12:10:00 This is the residential.

12:10:01 That is the 97 feet.

12:10:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I know the answer.




12:10:03 I just want everybody to be clear.

12:10:05 Because Mr. Redner stated that it's his right.

12:10:11 And to be fair, you know and I know and council knows

12:10:15 that we vote now on petitions all the time based on

12:10:17 that requirement alone, that waiver request.

12:10:22 Okay, go ahead.

12:10:25 >>ABBYE FEELEY: The last distance separation is from

12:10:26 1,000 feet to 139 feet for institutional, and that

12:10:30 would be to the fleet facility of the city, which is

12:10:35 located to the west.

12:10:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Also, the other waiver that you have,

12:10:38 other institutional use, the gas station there, right?

12:10:44 The total wine?

12:10:46 >>ABBYE FEELEY: The only two other establishments

12:10:49 selling alcohol that are within 1,000 feet of this

12:10:51 property are the radiant marathon gas station and the

12:10:54 total wine.

12:10:55 Once you get past total wine for that target or the

12:10:59 whole foods, they are outside of that 1,000 feet.

12:11:02 >> It doesn't matter.

12:11:04 The waiver says we have to waive that in order for them

12:11:06 to exist.




12:11:07 Is that accurate?

12:11:08 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Yes, that is correct.

12:11:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And so in actuality, what council did

12:11:15 two years ago was grant them a conditional use.

12:11:18 Is that right?

12:11:20 >> Yes.

12:11:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Which at that time I vote against.

12:11:25 Giving them the opportunity -- I could say a whole lot,

12:11:30 but -- well, giving them the opportunity to exist, and

12:11:39 to have the tasting room.

12:11:40 Is that accurate?

12:11:43 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Yes.

12:11:43 In 2008 a one-year conditional was granted with

12:11:46 conditions to allow for the consumption on premises

12:11:48 which would translate into the tasting room.

12:11:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So I just want the record to reflect

12:11:57 that this is -- that we are granting, and two years ago

12:12:02 we granted a waiver, three waivers, in order for this

12:12:06 tasting room to exist.

12:12:09 Is that accurate?

12:12:11 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Yes, sir.

12:12:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.




12:12:14 Councilman Miranda.

12:12:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a question in general terms.

12:12:18 Ms. Feeley, to your recollection and knowledge, since

12:12:20 you are much more eh tuned to these matters than all of

12:12:24 us because you handle most of them that come in for

12:12:26 many, many years, how many petitions for alcohol came

12:12:30 in with no waivers?

12:12:35 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Gosh, I have been reviewing for Land

12:12:37 Development Coordination for close to five years now.

12:12:40 My staff has reviewed for alcohol petitions -- I cannot

12:12:46 recall one that has not had a waiver.

12:12:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.

12:12:49 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a question, too.

12:12:54 I'm confused.

12:12:55 Saying this is Cigar City brewing, but they are

12:12:59 Specialty Mall.

12:13:01 What's the difference?

12:13:03 >>ABBYE FEELEY: You will notice even when we do

12:13:04 rezoning applications, you have a lot of LLCs that

12:13:07 come in, and are actually applicants, sometimes an

12:13:11 architect is an applicant.

12:13:12 We don't regulate who the applicant for an application




12:13:15 is.

12:13:15 >>GWEN MILLER: You don't have to specify --

12:13:20 >> As long as the property owner authorizes that the

12:13:22 application can be submitted and that's done through

12:13:26 notarization of the application, then we do not

12:13:29 regulate that that application, whom is the applicant.

12:13:35 We only regulate that it does actually have

12:13:37 authorization from the property owner to be submitted

12:13:39 to the city to move forward.

12:13:40 >>GWEN MILLER: How many times have we given them

12:13:45 conditionals to come back before us?

12:13:46 How many times?

12:13:48 >>ABBYE FEELEY: As I stated, the first was in 2008 and

12:13:50 it had two conditions that the onpremises sales between

12:13:53 the hours of 6 p.m. and 10 p.m. only, Monday through

12:13:57 Friday, and limited to four nights per month, no more

12:14:02 than one time a week, and then the second was that the

12:14:07 off-premises consumption limited between the hours of

12:14:09 9 a.m. and 5 p.m.

12:14:11 That came up, the year expired, and they petitioned

12:14:18 again in November of 2009 requesting permanent status

12:14:22 of the alcoholic beverage permit per VO 9-430 and that




12:14:28 was granted for another one-year conditional for the

12:14:30 property with conditions, the first was that the whole

12:14:33 remain incidental to the microbrewery and the second

12:14:36 was that the hours of operation, Sunday through

12:14:39 Thursday, to close at 9 p.m. and Friday and Saturday to

12:14:43 close at 11 p.m.

12:14:46 And that is why we are before you today, is because

12:14:51 that year is now approaching expiration, and they are

12:14:55 before you to ask for permanent status.

12:14:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Do we usually give more than one

12:14:59 conditional use?

12:15:01 Do we give two conditionals?

12:15:03 Have we ever given that many?

12:15:08 >> Off the top of my head I'm trying to remember who

12:15:11 else might have had a conditional.

12:15:13 I think there may have been one or two.

12:15:15 And then I believe they came back for permanent status

12:15:18 and were granted permanent status.

12:15:20 But I would have to check back.

12:15:22 I'm sorry.

12:15:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Legal?

12:15:27 Ms. Kert?




12:15:28 >>REBECCA KERT: Rebecca Kert, legal department.

12:15:31 Did you have any questions?

12:15:33 Or it's now my time?

12:15:36 >> Depends on what you say.

12:15:38 [ Laughter ]

12:15:38 >>REBECCA KERT: I want to make some clarification that

12:15:40 kind of follows up on what Mrs. Feeley had been talking

12:15:43 about.

12:15:44 The terms permit and license have been used somewhat

12:15:47 interchangeably today and I want to make it clear that

12:15:49 what City Council is going through today is a land use

12:15:51 permit.

12:15:51 We call at special use permit.

12:15:53 And that permit attaches to the property, which is why

12:15:56 we have to have the property owner sign off on it.

12:16:01 It does not attach to the applicant, which is why who

12:16:02 the applicant is, good, bad or indifferent, and that

12:16:05 can go many different ways, but that's not relevant to

12:16:09 your land use decision that you are making today.

12:16:11 The state in fact licenses the individual or the

12:16:14 corporation that is selling the alcohol.

12:16:17 The state has preempted us from licensing the




12:16:21 individual, and therefore any issues with the state

12:16:23 license also is not appropriate for your consideration

12:16:26 on this land use decision.

12:16:28 There is also some discussion about who has the burden

12:16:32 of paragraph to show what.

12:16:33 So I wanted to clarify and remained City Council again

12:16:35 how that works.

12:16:36 The applicant has the original initial burden to

12:16:40 demonstrate by competent, substantial evidence that

12:16:43 this use as it is conditioned meats your general

12:16:48 criteria.

12:16:48 The general criteria in the code and they are also

12:16:51 listed in your site plan.

12:16:53 If there are any waivers to the specific criteria for

12:16:57 the use, in this case alcoholic beverage, small venue,

12:17:00 and in this case waivers that lady to the distance

12:17:03 requirement, the applicant also has the initial burden

12:17:05 to demonstrate that even with the granting of those

12:17:09 waivers, they still need meet your general criteria.

12:17:12 At that point, if the applicant meats that burden, then

12:17:15 City Council should grant the special use permit,

12:17:17 unless City Council can articulate competent




12:17:22 substantial evidence in the record that in fact the

12:17:24 application does not meet the criteria, and is adverse

12:17:28 to the public interest.

12:17:29 And that competent, substantial evidence concludes --

12:17:33 includes fact, factual evidence and expert testimony.

12:17:35 Thank you.

12:17:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: One last question, Ms. Feeley.

12:17:42 What is the current zoning?

12:17:44 In my backup material, it says this is a residential

12:17:47 multifamily.

12:17:49 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Yes, I believe that when this Cass was

12:17:54 presented to you that he made said the staff report is

12:17:58 incorrect and the zoning is CI which is commercial

12:18:01 intensive.

12:18:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

12:18:10 Petitioner?

12:18:11 Mr. Redner, you have five minutes your time.

12:18:13 Five minutes on rebuttal.

12:18:15 >> Specialty Malls is a corporation that I owned that

12:18:23 owns the property.

12:18:24 It is also the IRS's landlord.

12:18:27 It exists on property but I own it.




12:18:30 That's why Specialty Malls is asking for the wet

12:18:33 zoning.

12:18:34 Joey leases from me.

12:18:37 Cigar City brewing leases from me.

12:18:39 He can't come in here and independent from me and ask

12:18:42 for zoning.

12:18:44 I have to come in with him.

12:18:46 >>> Would if I could.

12:18:51 [ Laughter ]

12:18:54 >> Listen to the people that were against it, still not

12:19:02 one iota of evidence that is specific.

12:19:08 No competent substantial evidence.

12:19:09 And I tell you this because I don't want to go to

12:19:11 court.

12:19:11 I don't want to fight.

12:19:13 In court.

12:19:14 It's a big expense for the city.

12:19:15 It's a big expense for me.

12:19:18 But when it's in a special exemption, the presumption

12:19:23 is once the application is put in, that you have to --

12:19:27 you have to have competent substantial evidence.

12:19:29 Yes, I do have a right, Mr. DeSoto Scott.




12:19:32 It is a permitted use on that property.

12:19:33 We are not asking actually for a waiver.

12:19:35 We are asking for a special exception.

12:19:38 And it is -- the property is permitted for that.

12:19:46 There's no place in the city that you can get a wet

12:19:50 zoning without a waiver, or special exception.

12:19:54 There isn't any place that exists.

12:19:56 >>> Almost every independent is probably within 150 to

12:20:00 200-foot of a residence.

12:20:02 >> Mr. Scott, you just okayed and voted for and the

12:20:05 rest of the City Council did a wet zoning that bordered

12:20:12 on residential area.

12:20:14 Because it has to almost.

12:20:26 I thank you very much for your consideration.

12:20:28 >>> Thank you, City Council.

12:20:30 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want to ask one question out of

12:20:33 curiosity, and since we have spent so much time hearing

12:20:36 about your tasting room.

12:20:40 What is the portion when you give -- when you are

12:20:42 tasting?

12:20:43 >> Samplers, it's one ounce, and we do sell a lot of

12:20:46 samplers.




12:20:47 But you can buy a pint but we do price the samplers and

12:20:51 each one is an ounce.

12:20:52 >> But you can buy.

12:20:56 >> You can also buy a pint.

12:20:58 >> A generic term for a package to fill beer.

12:21:08 >>MARY MULHERN: My drinking days are long over so this

12:21:10 is new to me, beer tasting.

12:21:12 >>> Thank you, council.

12:21:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Any other questions?

12:21:17 >> Any other questions by council?

12:21:20 Motion to close?

12:21:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.

12:21:22 >> Second.

12:21:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?

12:21:24 Opposes?

12:21:25 What's the pleasure of council?

12:21:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, I think I have to first of all

12:21:30 speak.

12:21:30 I'm sorry I left the country.

12:21:32 [ Laughter ]

12:21:34 I cost a lot of people a lot of use of gas, use of

12:21:37 time, use of TV time, use of missing from their




12:21:41 families.

12:21:42 But I had to do what I had to do.

12:21:47 When I reviewed all the files, I can tell you that even

12:21:49 the structure size -- and there's no notes -- is

12:21:52 114,020 feet square foot.

12:21:55 I can tell you reading all this, it was about a list of

12:21:58 eight or ten regulars, who are they, what is this, what

12:22:02 is that, and I read all of that.

12:22:05 But that really is not pertinent to the decision that

12:22:09 this council has got to make.

12:22:10 It's either good or bad based on the evidence.

12:22:14 I can tell you that tropical beer and ale, beer and

12:22:19 sale, Budweiser and Schlitz, all gave free beer away to

12:22:24 their employees.

12:22:25 And they were more than an ounce.

12:22:34 It is difficult times, I can tell you.

12:22:36 And I have tried to help the neighborhood when Home

12:22:38 Depot was zoned.

12:22:39 There was a little island put over, and guess what

12:22:43 happened.

12:22:44 They turned left so many times the island disappeared.

12:22:48 Through the efforts of my aide, Mary Bryant, we have




12:22:51 put -- and the city and the administration, I give them

12:22:54 credit for that, a flapper all the way down to where

12:22:57 you cannot make a left turn.

12:22:59 Guess what happens.

12:23:00 Somebody ran them over.

12:23:01 There's about eight or ten of them flappers gone.

12:23:06 Just the other day I witnessed an individual making a

12:23:09 right hand turn stopping in the middle of the road on

12:23:11 Spruce to make a left-hand turn.

12:23:13 He's got to be nuts.

12:23:15 Exposing himself and the vehicle to real danger.

12:23:21 I can also tell you that efforts have been made through

12:23:23 ours our offices and the mayor's office to study the

12:23:27 big ditch which is a bigger problem than anything your

12:23:30 neighborhood has to see what the costs are to make the

12:23:35 accommodation that your neighborhood should have and

12:23:37 any other neighborhood has, because to my knowledge

12:23:41 they are no larger ditch than that than a residential

12:23:44 area other than Drew Park, which is zoned differently.

12:23:50 I have had conversation with different neighborhood

12:23:51 associations, different individuals who collect moneys

12:23:55 on a different areas, and even government authorities




12:24:00 that we have that have moneys that will participate

12:24:02 possibly in solving that problem.

12:24:05 It won't be done during my term in office but it will

12:24:08 be done.

12:24:09 I hope.

12:24:13 I have reviewed the file.

12:24:14 I have reviewed the 2008.

12:24:18 I was here.

12:24:19 2009.

12:24:20 And what has happened?

12:24:23 What have we come to?

12:24:24 Where are we going?

12:24:27 When I started getting calls from Connecticut, from

12:24:30 Portland, Maine, from Seattle, from California, from

12:24:33 Texas. first of all, I didn't answer them on a city

12:24:38 phone because I'm cheap.

12:24:41 I answer them on my cell phone because it's unlimited.

12:24:44 I talked to a guy in Connecticut, first one.

12:24:50 I didn't know what he wanted.

12:24:52 And he talks to me about the brewery and the business

12:24:54 and I'm telling myself, why is this guy calling me from

12:24:57 Connecticut?




12:24:58 And he tells me, I go down there and drink beer at this

12:25:00 place, and I told him it's cheaper to ship it up.

12:25:04 [ Laughter ]

12:25:04 And then he starts to tell me, he changes his story and

12:25:07 talks about his mother in New Port Richey.

12:25:09 I hear the story about the mother in New Port Richey.

12:25:12 And as I called two or three others, I didn't call any

12:25:21 more.

12:25:22 On the other side of my brain decided -- the side that

12:25:25 thinks real well tells me, if I am getting calls from

12:25:28 all over the country regarding this, then I know what's

12:25:35 coming.

12:25:35 And let me tell you good folks what's coming.

12:25:39 If there is no substantial evidence not to grant this

12:25:46 application, and on the record you have these hundreds

12:25:49 of phone calls from all over the country that say that

12:25:53 they buy that product, I'm not afraid of a lawsuit.

12:25:57 I just don't like to lose them.

12:26:00 The preponderance would be the loss of income of that

12:26:03 business, the relocation of that business, and things

12:26:08 of nature that would cause the rest of the city an

12:26:12 enormous amount of cost.




12:26:14 And the legal department here, does anyone want to

12:26:17 answer some of these questions that imposing out there?

12:26:20 Hello?

12:26:21 I'm sorry I woke up during lunch time.

12:26:27 >>REBECCA KERT: I promise I'm paying attention.

12:26:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Is there any evidence to turn this

12:26:34 hearing down?

12:26:41 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I can answer that.

12:26:42 Forgive me, Mr. Miranda, but you are the finders of

12:26:44 fact.

12:26:45 You, the City Council.

12:26:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I understand that.

12:26:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And to ask the legal department would

12:26:48 be inappropriate.

12:26:49 She can -- if the question is of a legal conclusion --

12:26:52 and I don't know --

12:26:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Legally I'm asking.

12:26:56 Is there any evidence on the record that you have found

12:26:59 to say under this point it has never been done before,

12:27:04 we have never had a waiver before, we have never done

12:27:07 anything before that would not jeopardize this case in

12:27:14 any way?




12:27:17 >>REBECCA KERT: Mr. Miranda, I do have to agree with

12:27:19 what Marty said.

12:27:21 If you are asking if there's any thought in here to

12:27:24 support or deny, that is up to City Council.

12:27:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.

12:27:28 >>REBECCA KERT: And I can again tell you that the

12:27:30 burden is on the applicant to make sure they meet your

12:27:32 general criteria even if there are waivers.

12:27:36 But the difference between -- this is not a waiver in

12:27:39 the sense that it's a variance.

12:27:40 They do not have to prove a hardship to get the waiver.

12:27:43 They just Virginia to prove that they still continue to

12:27:45 meet your general standards.

12:27:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All right.

12:27:47 Let me state what I heard then.

12:27:49 The police department report was that, way heard, was

12:27:53 there was no tide of evidence that says they created a

12:28:00 nuisance since 2008.

12:28:02 This is one of a few.

12:28:04 I am going to say few just in case.

12:28:06 Bun one of two or three maybe that has ever had by any

12:28:11 council body the one-year conditional, and when they




12:28:15 come back they sed get a second year conditional, and

12:28:18 now they are coming up for a third year with, if I

12:28:26 remember what the petitioner said, with a condition on

12:28:29 the plan that if the brewery was to go away, or the

12:28:37 tasting room went away, it all went away.

12:28:41 Am I correct?

12:28:42 Did I hear that right?

12:28:43 >> Yes, sir.

12:28:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So what I am saying is legally,

12:28:51 forget about the legally.

12:28:53 That's for somebody else to determine.

12:28:56 I don't see the evidence that would hold up in a

12:29:03 decision as this further down to a higher tribunal.

12:29:07 Therefore, I don't see somebody saying, I will never

12:29:12 vote for it again.

12:29:13 That happens to me every day.

12:29:15 It's not new.

12:29:17 Any one of us.

12:29:18 I'm not trying to be smart or joking or anything else.

12:29:21 You see, when you have a large assembly, 50% of the

12:29:24 people here are not going to like what you are going to

12:29:26 do.




12:29:27 And guess what happens.

12:29:28 If you have the same people come back the second time,

12:29:30 the other 50% ain't going to like what you are going to

12:29:33 do.

12:29:34 So you are going to have 100 percent against you.

12:29:37 But we were elected to make the decisions.

12:29:40 In fact, I can tell you by reading the evidence, even

12:29:43 the cost was 180,000 for the period of time of the

12:29:48 contract.

12:29:49 I think that's accurate.

12:29:51 So I have read the record.

12:29:53 And I'm ready to vote, Mr. Chairman.

12:29:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a motion?

12:30:04 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Should we read this?

12:30:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That's my recommendation if you wish

12:30:08 to move it.

12:30:08 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I move presenting an ordinance

12:30:10 for first reading a proving a special using permit S

12:30:12 oat 2 for alcoholic beverage sales small venue making

12:30:15 lawful the sale of beverages containing alcohol more

12:30:17 than 1% by weight and not more than 14% by weight and

12:30:22 wines regardless of alcoholic content beer and wine 24




12:30:26 cop for consumption on premises and in sealed

12:30:29 containers for consumption off premises at or from that

12:30:33 certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 3924 West

12:30:38 Spruce Street, Tampa, Florida as more particularly

12:30:41 described in section 2 hereof providing for repeal of

12:30:44 all ordinances in conflict, providing an effective

12:30:47 date.

12:30:48 And we would like -- Abbye, can you give us the hours?

12:30:53 This would be added to the motion.

12:30:56 >> The modification would be just to change the hours

12:30:58 of operation for Sunday to be consistent with the hours

12:31:00 of operation governed, which are 11 a.m. until 10 p.m.

12:31:06 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.

12:31:10 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Friday and Saturday 9 to

12:31:12 midnight?

12:31:16 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Those hours are actually already on the

12:31:18 plan and are correct.

12:31:19 The only modification would be to change for the Sunday

12:31:21 so that it coincided with state law for 11 a.m. sales.

12:31:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just for the purposes of the record,

12:31:28 I just want to know if petitioner agrees with that,

12:31:32 just so it's clear, that between first and second




12:31:34 reading that change will be made?

12:31:36 >> Yes.

12:31:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you could come to the microphone,

12:31:38 please.

12:31:39 >> Yes, we agree with that.

12:31:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.

12:31:43 >>MARY MULHERN: I seconded it.

12:31:45 I just wanted to say that I voted for this originally

12:31:52 when it came up 3 to 3 and I think I start supported

12:31:55 both the conditional, and I feel like not only are we

12:31:59 granting this, but there were two votes by this council

12:32:07 that granted this conditional.

12:32:09 So I think -- I feel like it's part of our

12:32:14 responsibility to follow through with those

12:32:17 stipulations we made.

12:32:18 We gave them a conditional wet zoning or special use

12:32:27 permit two years ago, when they came back.

12:32:33 We found a majority of us found that they had met the

12:32:38 requirements, and there wasn't any evidence that they

12:32:42 were violating any of those things that the neighbors

12:32:47 had concerns about, the traffic problems, the crime

12:32:51 problems.




12:32:52 There wasn't any evidence then according to the

12:32:54 majority of this council, and then again a year ago, we

12:32:58 agreed to that, but we still put the conditional on.

12:33:00 So I think for this council to be consistent and to

12:33:08 follow through with what we are asking businesses to

12:33:12 do, we have to keep that in mind as we vote for this.

12:33:16 And I have to address the suggestion that this has

12:33:24 anything to do with the neighborhood or that has

12:33:30 anything to do with race, because we did vote earlier

12:33:33 today, I think, on an item that someone mentioned where

12:33:38 we extended the hours of a restaurant's liquor sales

12:33:43 to, I think, 3 a.m.

12:33:45 That's a restaurant on Kennedy that has residential

12:33:50 neighborhood right behind it.

12:33:51 There is zero distance separation.

12:33:54 And I'm pretty sure that's an integrated neighborhood.

12:33:58 It's absolutely not just, you know.

12:34:00 So that suggestion is really offensive to me, you know.

12:34:06 But my experience on this council, there's in a reason

12:34:09 for anyone to think that I or I don't think anyone --

12:34:14 anyone else on this council makes any kind of decision

12:34:16 based on that.




12:34:18 So I just need to say that, because if we are hearing

12:34:23 that in the press, and then we are having people repeat

12:34:25 it, it's just absolutely not true for any of us.

12:34:32 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.

12:34:32 Also, would this be added to the motion?

12:34:38 The condition of zoning, with the brewery and the

12:34:44 tasting on the site plan?

12:34:45 Is that something that was agreed upon?

12:34:51 >>REBECCA KERT: The site plan already indicates that

12:34:52 all alcoholic beverage sales are incidental total

12:34:56 microbrewery or in association.

12:35:00 >>YVONNE CAPIN: So we don't have to -- thank you.

12:35:02 I also want to state that this definitely, as a

12:35:09 minority person, that being mentioned and repeated

12:35:17 again, I agree with Councilwoman Mulhern, it is

12:35:22 offensive, and none of us here.

12:35:27 It is based on fact and fact alone.

12:35:29 Thank you.

12:35:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

12:35:33 You say council voted for the waiver the first time.

12:35:35 I did not vote to give waivers.

12:35:38 I did not vote for the conditional the first or the




12:35:41 second time.

12:35:41 I will not vote for this time either.

12:35:44 We are setting a precedent.

12:35:46 We are going to give waivers almost a hundred feet more

12:35:50 than they deserve.

12:35:51 I don't think it's fair to any other person that comes

12:35:55 before us.

12:35:55 If they didn't have to have three waivers, but this is

12:35:58 asking for three waivers, and I don't see how we could

12:36:00 have granted three waivers on these conditions that we

12:36:03 are going by, because we always say that you have

12:36:09 hundred feet more for the neighborhood.

12:36:11 We are doing this, and I don't think it's fair to

12:36:13 change your policy.

12:36:15 If you are going to do it today, then somebody is

12:36:17 coming, let's start today giving the waivers.

12:36:21 Let's give them all the time.

12:36:22 And I don't think they have proved the burden that the

12:36:25 waivers should be granted, that they can have a brewery

12:36:27 without the tasting.

12:36:31 Now they are going to have the tasting P.I don't think

12:36:33 that's fair.




12:36:33 If they are going to come back to us again for

12:36:35 something else, and you are going to do the same thing,

12:36:38 it's still not fair.

12:36:39 So I am not going to support this.

12:36:42 We are going to have to stick to what we say we are

12:36:44 going to do and continue to do what we say we are going

12:36:46 to do.

12:36:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I am not going to support the motion on

12:36:49 the floor.

12:36:50 I voted against it in 2008, 2009, and a couple of weeks

12:36:54 ago, will vote against it today.

12:36:55 I have been very consistent.

12:36:57 Again, because the waiver is granted the first time is

12:37:00 very hard for you not to because of the pending

12:37:04 lawsuit.

12:37:04 From my standpoint, didn't meet the criteria. Again 97

12:37:09 feet from 1,000 feet is very significant.

12:37:14 And then the other two, plus the personal testimony

12:37:18 today pointed out the traffic congestion and the

12:37:21 traffic patterns that are going through lien can

12:37:24 garden, Carver City, that's been created, plus the fact

12:37:27 on the record we heard as well that people come from




12:37:30 all over the world, all over the country, to this place

12:37:34 means that there will be more traffic, more congestion,

12:37:37 that's going to be going into the particular

12:37:38 neighborhood.

12:37:39 I mean, I don't know what better evidence that's been

12:37:45 given themselves based on that testimony that it will

12:37:48 create congestion, and traffic pattern that's not

12:37:51 accustomed to a neighborhood.

12:37:52 Again, it also was testified for 57 years was

12:37:57 nothing -- wasn't nothing else there, everything else

12:38:00 has not encroached upon that neighborhood causing a lot

12:38:02 of the issues and problems now that lien can garden and

12:38:06 Carver City face.

12:38:07 And so basically what has happened now we are adding

12:38:11 another encroachment into a neighborhood that will

12:38:13 continue to force a traffic congestion pattern.

12:38:17 And I pray that nothing happens to those that are

12:38:21 driving out and been drinking or tasting, that will

12:38:24 cause accidental death to any small child that may be

12:38:29 playing or riding their bike.

12:38:31 Thank you.

12:38:35 There's a motion.




12:38:38 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

12:38:40 Opposes?

12:38:40 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miller, Stokes and

12:38:45 Scott voting no.

12:38:47 Second reading of the ordinance will be held December

12:38:50 16th at 9:30 a.m.

12:38:57 [ Applause ]

12:38:57 [Sounding gavel]

12:38:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

12:39:00 We --

12:39:01 [Sounding gavel]

12:39:02 Hold the noise down, please.

12:39:03 Council is still in session.

12:39:05 Council is still in session.

12:39:07 Council, we will stand in recess --

12:39:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Not coming back at 1:30.

12:39:13 Do you think this will be longer than 30 minutes?

12:39:15 And we can get out, don't have to come back?

12:39:20 I don't think it will last more than 30 minutes.

12:39:24 We won't need to come back at 1:30.

12:39:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, do you want to do that?

12:39:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.




12:39:31 It's not going to last 30 minutes.

12:39:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

12:39:34 [Sounding gavel]

12:39:35 Please.

12:39:36 Please.

12:39:36 Council is still in session.

12:39:38 Please.

12:39:38 We are in session.

12:39:40 Thank you.

12:39:41 Thank you.

12:39:42 Thank you.

12:39:44 Then we'll try to take up -- if you don't think it's

12:39:53 going to last longer than 30 minutes, come on.

12:39:59 The clock is ticking.

12:40:00 >> I wasn't sworn in.

12:40:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else that hasn't been sworn,

12:40:08 please stand that's going to be speaking.

12:40:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, this is item number 46,

12:40:14 a continued public hearing on review of VRB-10-99.

12:40:20 (Oath administered by Clerk)

12:40:30 >> This is a VRB case.

12:40:35 This the board denied the request 6-0.




12:40:39 This is VRB-10-99 to increase the height of the sign.

12:40:46 Increase the height of the sign and square footage in

12:40:48 order to make the sign conforming to replace it with an

12:40:51 LED messaging center.

12:40:54 This, I believe, is a de novo?

12:41:01 This is based on the record under your previous rules.

12:41:03 >> Good afternoon, council.

12:41:11 Today we have before you the appeal of Variance Review

12:41:13 Board's denial of case VRB-10-99.

12:41:18 The property in this appeal is located at 2015 north

12:41:22 50th street and the petitioner is Sal em GASOUTI,

12:41:32 seeking variances for an existing sign.

12:41:34 Those variances included decreasing the setback for a

12:41:37 free standing sign from 15 fate to 5 feet.

12:41:41 Increasing the allowable square footage of the sign

12:41:43 from 50 square feet to 132 square feet and increase the

12:41:49 allowable height from 20 feet to 25 feet.

12:41:53 The sign at issue was constructed in 2007 which was

12:41:56 just prior to the sign code.

12:42:00 The applicable code section is section 20.5-13, which

12:42:05 regulates on-site signs, and I have copies of it.

12:42:15 Does everybody have a copy of the code?




12:42:40 All right.

12:42:45 On the bottom of the second page, paragraph C, is what

12:42:50 regulates on-site signs in industrial districts, and

12:42:52 the property in this case is zoned IG or industrial

12:42:56 zone general.

12:42:57 Paragraph C-1-C, which is if you turn over to the third

12:43:02 page, second page, moving onto the third page, is what

12:43:06 pertains to the allowable signs by code, that being

12:43:10 square footage.

12:43:13 Paragraph C-1-B the next paragraph down, allowable

12:43:18 height in the setback.

12:43:20 I have a picture of the existing sign up.

12:43:24 Petitioner's agent presented the case to the VRB and

12:43:29 stated that the sole purpose was to make the sign legal

12:43:32 conforming so they can install mess electric message

12:43:35 center.

12:43:36 The Variance Review Board found there was no evidence

12:43:39 to presented to show a hardship for the granting of the

12:43:42 variance.

12:43:43 The board felt the sign could be brought within the

12:43:45 sign code's requirements as far as height, and

12:43:49 consequently the board voted to deny the application by




12:43:52 a vote of 6-0 on the basis of the hardship criteria had

12:43:56 not been met that would warrant the increase height in

12:43:59 square footage of the sign.

12:44:00 Furthermore, the board stated that the variance for the

12:44:03 sole purpose of adding electronic message center was

12:44:07 contrary to the spirit of the city sign code.

12:44:12 As a reminder, I don't know, Mr. Shelby, if you give a

12:44:15 quick criteria that there can be no new evidence

12:44:18 presented to you today, and your actions shall be based

12:44:22 solely on the record created during the variance review

12:44:24 board hearing.

12:44:25 And --

12:44:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I can, also, council, I am going

12:44:30 to be distributing for you section 17.5-74 the

12:44:37 application of that does have the criteria.

12:44:40 Also, council, this appeal is one of the last to come

12:44:47 through that are under the old method, not a de novo

12:44:51 method but the certiorari standards.

12:44:53 What I would like to do is pass to you the previous

12:45:00 code section 27-373, and review with you very briefly

12:45:04 the standard of review in this case.

12:45:09 I think again your decision is to look to whether the




12:45:12 board's decision, the VRB decision, was supported by

12:45:16 competent substantial evidence, two, whether due

12:45:19 process was accorded, and three, whether the essential

12:45:22 requirements of law have been observed, was the proper

12:45:26 law applied properly?

12:45:27 That is your standard of review.

12:45:29 Again, do you not have to hear this case de novo in its

12:45:34 entirety, and the petitioner, petitioner's

12:45:41 representative who is asking for the appeal, could make

12:45:43 the presentation at this point.

12:45:47 Staff, did you want to make additional presentation?

12:45:49 Okay.

12:45:50 Thank you.

12:45:50 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, do we have the

12:46:01 amendments from the VRB?

12:46:06 >> You should have them in your backup.

12:46:09 >>> Todd Pressman.

12:46:22 P.O. Box 6015 Palm Harbor, Florida. 34684.

12:46:27 We appreciate your time today.

12:46:29 I'll make this very straightforward and brief.

12:46:33 I do want to make you aware there's been absolutely no

12:46:35 objections to this request.




12:46:37 It has come from the public as the record will show you

12:46:39 either again from the public or from the city, and in

12:46:42 terms of zoning staff.

12:46:46 This is a site that is for a mom and pop, more or less

12:46:50 a mom and pop organization.

12:46:51 We have a couple of restaurants.

12:46:54 And really all that is requested here, Mr. Chairman,

12:46:56 council members, if we go to the overhead, please.

12:47:05 What is being requested that you can see is virtually

12:47:07 the same structure.

12:47:10 The only thing that is proposed to change is the

12:47:13 message center which is going from the hand-held

12:47:15 plastic letters to the same size electric message

12:47:21 center with I would operate per city code.

12:47:23 Where I do want to make you aware is that there have

12:47:26 been quite a number of mistakes made by the VRB board

12:47:30 and they refused to accept the hardships that were

12:47:32 presented.

12:47:33 The site again just for orientation is located here.

12:47:39 This is north 50th street here.

12:47:42 East 10th.

12:47:43 And east Broadway.




12:47:45 You can see the site case here is at the confluence of

12:47:50 a lot of roadways, very unique roadway situation which

12:47:53 is part of the difficulty and hardship here.

12:47:55 The site had been in disrepair for quite a number of

12:47:58 years until it was taken over by this property owner

12:48:00 and dramatically improved and kept very nice, and is in

12:48:05 very nice state of repair at the moment.

12:48:07 What you will see on the record is that you will see

12:48:09 one of the board members who emphatically states

12:48:14 twice -- and I can read from the record directly for

12:48:16 you -- that there was some kind of violation, or there

12:48:20 was the inability for the board members to vote for

12:48:22 this site, quoting, it will violate the sign code that

12:48:27 specifically disallows us to change the sign based upon

12:48:30 only swapping out electronic versus non-electric sign.

12:48:33 It was stated twice very clearly.

12:48:35 And that the clearly is wrong and led the board down

12:48:45 the wrong track.

12:48:45 Wall also find is a discussion about this site having

12:48:48 to compete with large nonconforming signs, and I do

12:48:52 mean very large tall signs, and the there were

12:48:59 photographs that were handed out.




12:49:01 This is just a few.

12:49:02 This is an example of the McDonald sign which is very

12:49:05 high, very large.

12:49:08 Advanced auto parts

12:49:15 This is the shopping center to the east.

12:49:17 It's a situation where there is a hardship for more or

12:49:19 less -- JD was at the hearing and gave those to me.

12:49:27 Those are the ones that were handed out.

12:49:29 So the hardship which was presented which was not

12:49:31 accepted is this is a site uniquely located for the

12:49:35 roads shown you, that because of making what is more or

12:49:40 less a sleight of hand change of the sign would then

12:49:43 throw them into a fantastically -- a situation that

12:49:47 would put them at a disadvantage to virtually all the

12:49:51 signs in the media area.

12:49:53 So in that respect, we feel that there is a very

12:49:55 definable, credible reason or hardship that meets the

12:49:59 criteria.

12:50:00 The board refused to accept that, and ventured along a

12:50:05 route that is incorrect.

12:50:06 The second mistake that the V rah B made was that they

12:50:09 clearly stated on the record that they agreed with the




12:50:12 reasons for the setback variance, but then ended that

12:50:16 discussion and did not approve that variance.

12:50:18 We think they would have continued, they clearly would

12:50:21 have found their way to approve the others.

12:50:24 In summary, Mr. Chairman and council members -- and we

12:50:26 appreciate you taking this case.

12:50:27 I know it's getting late.

12:50:29 We appreciate your time.

12:50:30 Clearly on the record, there is ample information to

12:50:33 prove it, ample information why the board was wrong,

12:50:37 and this comes down to a good business issue.

12:50:39 Eights good business issue for a business owner that

12:50:43 has improved the site, brought a good business and runs

12:50:46 a great organization.

12:50:47 Thank you very much.

12:50:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Pressman, the site on 40th and

12:50:50 Hillsborough has a similar sign.

12:50:52 What's the difference in that sign and this sign here?

12:50:59 The site on 40th and Hillsborough.

12:51:01 They just redid that, the sign up.

12:51:03 >> I can't say I November the details of that compared

12:51:11 to this site.




12:51:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's not the same sign.

12:51:14 >> Oh, nor operator?

12:51:16 Yes, there is a similar issue there, yes, sir.

12:51:18 What was your question?

12:51:20 >> Well, is there a difference?

12:51:21 Because I know one exists now like on 40th, right

12:51:25 at the new renovated.

12:51:27 The exact same sign.

12:51:29 >>GWEN MILLER: They are lacking 25 feet.

12:51:31 >> It is the same sign except that's being handled in

12:51:35 PD modification.

12:51:36 And that will be coming to you, yes.

12:51:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That sign is already up.

12:51:41 >> Well, it would be a slight change to electric.

12:51:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: How long do you need?

12:51:53 >>MARY MULHERN: I just had a couple questions.

12:51:55 One, we have a record that we can't see these

12:51:57 photographs at all.

12:51:58 So when you were flipping through the photographs, do

12:52:00 you have one that shows approximate the existing sign,

12:52:05 in this same photograph?

12:52:07 Can you show it to me again?




12:52:10 They are the dark black and white things in here.

12:52:19 I want -- no, Mr. Pressman, you showed us this color

12:52:23 photograph of McDonald and all the other signs.

12:52:26 In a.

12:52:26 I want to see a real, not a diagram photo.

12:52:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: She wants to see the actual.

12:52:32 >>MARY MULHERN: The photograph.

12:52:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is this the photograph of the area?

12:52:36 >>MARY MULHERN: That includes -- that shows the Salem

12:52:39 sign.

12:52:40 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Those photographs were not presented

12:52:46 fought board at the VRB and they are not part of the

12:52:49 record.

12:52:49 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.

12:52:51 So was there a photograph shown to the VRB that

12:52:53 compared?

12:53:01 >>ERNEST MUELLER: There is nothing in the record.

12:53:04 Being see in the packet there's in a photographs of

12:53:05 that, that was present to the board that made it into

12:53:08 the record.

12:53:10 And, you know --

12:53:12 >>MARY MULHERN: But this was in the record?




12:53:14 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Yes, ma'am.

12:53:15 >>MARY MULHERN: That's what I needed to see.

12:53:17 Thank you.

12:53:18 Here is my other question.

12:53:20 I did read through the whole record.

12:53:23 When was this sign erected, the current sign?

12:53:28 >> From reading the record, approximately -- JD is with

12:53:36 Alsabbagh engineering.

12:53:37 He was at the hearing.

12:53:39 Approximately three years ago.

12:53:40 >> I think that's in the record, too, isn't it?

12:53:43 2007.

12:53:43 Okay.

12:53:44 And when was our sign code enacted?

12:53:50 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Very soon after that sign being

12:53:52 erected, yes.

12:53:53 And I'm sorry for the confusion.

12:53:56 It's my understanding the photos I showed you were part

12:53:58 of that record so there is confusion here.

12:54:00 That's an area that I do apologize.

12:54:03 >> councilman?

12:54:06 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I am going to forgo my questions,




12:54:09 Mr. Chairman.

12:54:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?

12:54:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY:

12:54:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So Mr. Pressman, pretty much it's you

12:54:15 are raising the hate and moving to electronic?

12:54:19 >> The action here is electronic.

12:54:22 But the variance difficulty is that when you hit that

12:54:27 trigger you have to conform, and then we have the

12:54:29 hardship of difficulty within the immediate vicinity.

12:54:32 So it's a number of events that causes the hardship.

12:54:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: If you want to speak.

12:54:37 >>> I am going to try to state this another way.

12:54:39 The sign is already what it is and it's too high, too

12:54:42 close, too large.

12:54:44 When the sign code came in it made it legal

12:54:50 nonconforming.

12:54:50 You can't put that on a nonconforming sign.

12:54:53 The sign has to be made conforming.

12:54:55 Then they can put it on.

12:54:57 That is the reason they came to the Variance Review

12:55:00 Board to make it a legal sign so they could attach the

12:55:02 electronic.




12:55:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: There's an indication, Mr. Attorney,

12:55:08 that the roadway has been changed, if I looked at the

12:55:13 intersection, it's much wider turns.

12:55:16 Did that in any way have to do with making the sign not

12:55:21 legal now, because evidently it was some right-of-way

12:55:24 taken.

12:55:25 The way I looked at that photo real quickly.

12:55:29 The intersection now has changed.

12:55:31 >>> That factual issue, I can't address exactly.

12:55:37 Although if you look back at the code --

12:55:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm not looking at the code.

12:55:41 I'm looking at the picture that was evidence.

12:55:44 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Can you speak to that at all as to

12:55:47 whether they put some right-of-way?

12:55:49 >> This was the site plan by survey that was submitted

12:55:52 at the hearing.

12:55:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: But is that for this hearing?

12:55:55 I'm looking before the hearing, before the applicant

12:55:59 put an application to make this variance possible or

12:56:02 not possible.

12:56:04 That roadwork on 50th looks like it's not normal

12:56:08 like it is all over the city.




12:56:09 It's got wider turns on all of them.

12:56:12 So there had to be some right-of-way taken.

12:56:14 >> Unfortunately on the site plan they don't show the

12:56:17 previous setbacks.

12:56:18 They don't show the previous property lines.

12:56:21 So we can't comment because I don't know for a fact

12:56:25 that's going back to the right-of-way.

12:56:26 >> All right.

12:56:30 Thank you.

12:56:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions from council?

12:56:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.

12:56:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.

12:56:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?

12:56:40 Opposed opposes?

12:56:40 What's the pleasure of council?

12:56:42 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, move to override

12:56:45 the VRB.

12:56:50 >> Second.

12:56:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilman --

12:56:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: State one of the reasons.

12:56:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Hardship.

12:57:01 >> Definitely a hardship.




12:57:02 We don't want to hamper a business.

12:57:04 The sign is there.

12:57:05 The only thing they are going to change is the contents

12:57:07 on the screen.

12:57:10 It's not here now but a message board is still going to

12:57:14 be there.

12:57:15 It's going to be electronic.

12:57:16 There's in a difference.

12:57:17 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm not going to support overturning

12:57:24 the Variance Review Board's determination.

12:57:29 They didn't see any hardship.

12:57:32 And I don't see any hardship either.

12:57:35 Based on the photograph that we saw that was part of

12:57:38 the initial record.

12:57:40 That's a big sign, very visible.

12:57:44 It's a lower height than the McDonald's arches, but if

12:57:52 they are the same height they block each other.

12:57:53 So I don't think the height has always got to be the

12:57:56 highest height for every sign.

12:58:02 This was a sign that was put up, knowing that we were

12:58:05 going to have more height -- lower height restrictions,

12:58:12 that we were about to change our code, more




12:58:14 restrictions on signage.

12:58:16 So they put it in at the last minute, knowing it would

12:58:19 become -- it would get in -- which is fine.

12:58:23 But then to then know that you were building something

12:58:27 that at the last minute, and then once it becomes --

12:58:33 the law changes and it's not legal but nonconforming to

12:58:38 decide that had you want to change it, I don't think

12:58:42 that -- I think this is the whole reason that they

12:58:45 spent years, this council spent years before our term

12:58:49 even started working on a sign code to reduce the

12:58:54 visual blight, to make sure that as signs changed, and

12:58:58 as businesses changed, we had less clutter, less sign

12:59:02 clutter.

12:59:03 So I don't see a hardship.

12:59:07 I didn't see it in the transcript.

12:59:09 And I haven't seen it today.

12:59:11 I also think it's worth noting that people on the

12:59:14 Variance Review Board tried to help them to give them

12:59:19 the variance to put up the LED sign by saying, well, if

12:59:25 you would reduce the height of this sign, if you

12:59:27 conform, then we would be willing to give you the

12:59:30 variance for that, or allow to you do that.




12:59:32 So I think they have other options.

12:59:35 I don't see the problem.

12:59:37 I don't think they have a hardship.

12:59:41 >>CURTIS STOKES: Mr. Chairman.

12:59:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano, then councilman.

12:59:48 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: On page 23 of the minutes, it

12:59:54 says -- I would support instead of the motion for

12:59:59 denial, I would support a motion to bring the sign down

13:00:01 so that the bottom of the proposed electronic portion

13:00:06 not go any lower than the site try angle issue of five

13:00:11 feet.

13:00:12 What they are saying, they want that sign to be five

13:00:14 feet.

13:00:15 No one is ever going to see that sign with that traffic

13:00:17 there.

13:00:17 It's going to hurt the gentleman's business.

13:00:24 >>CURTIS STOKES: I'll be brief.

13:00:26 I think we have to be consistent.

13:00:28 We are going to vote to support a business who ignored

13:00:33 the neighborhoods.

13:00:35 This isn't a vote against the VRB.

13:00:37 If we are going to vote to support small businesses in




13:00:39 the City of Tampa we have to be consistent.

13:00:41 We just made a vote 20 minutes ago to support a small

13:00:45 business in a different part of the city.

13:00:48 So we have to be consistent.

13:00:49 If we are going to support businesses on one side of

13:00:51 the city and not support businesses on the other of the

13:00:54 city, hence is the frustration of sitting on this City

13:00:58 Council.

13:00:58 We have to be consistent.

13:01:00 What's good for this neighborhood hags to be good for

13:01:01 this neighborhood.

13:01:02 So I am going to support it, in the spirit of

13:01:06 supporting small business.

13:01:07 I am going to support this item.

13:01:09 Thank you.

13:01:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other?

13:01:11 Yes, sir.

13:01:11 >> Your motion was to overturn the decision of the VRB?

13:01:21 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: To grant the appeal.

13:01:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Based on the hardship.

13:01:24 >> Yes.

13:01:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion and second.




13:01:28 Second by councilman Stokes.

13:01:30 All in favor of the motion signify by saying Aye.

13:01:32 Opposes?

13:01:32 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern voting no.

13:01:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

13:01:40 One last thing.

13:01:40 Council, I have a request from the Moffitt cancer.

13:01:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to receive and file.

13:01:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?

13:01:47 >> Did get a second?

13:01:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Miranda seconded.

13:01:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I have a request from the Moffitt

13:01:51 cancer center that we do a commendation to them for the

13:01:54 16th and 17th at their facility.

13:01:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.

13:02:00 All in favor of the motion say Aye.

13:02:02 Opposed?

13:02:03 >> Any other business to come before us other than we

13:02:05 need to do the holiday greeting right after this.

13:02:07 Then we are through for the for the day.

13:02:10 If nothing else then, we stand adjourned.

13:02:14 (The meeting adjourned at 1:02 p.m.)






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