TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, December 2, 2010
9:00 a.m. session
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09:06:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come to
09:06:36 The chair will recognize the honorable Curtis Stokes.
09:06:44 >>CURTIS STOKES: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. If
09:06:48 there is ever indication we needed light rail it is
09:06:52 Reverend James is late coming from Brandon, and Jim
09:06:59 Crew from the City of Tampa will do our invocation.
09:07:05 >> Father, we are thank you for this beautiful cold
09:07:12 We thank you for your blessings new every morning.
09:07:15 We thank you that we can call upon your presence that
09:07:17 we can invoke your aid at any time because you said if
09:07:20 we draw near to you, you will draw near to us, and we
09:07:23 do so right now.
09:07:24 We ask for your wisdom for our servants and consider
09:07:27 this day and we thank you that you give it in Jesus
09:07:31 name whom I call Lord.
09:07:34 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
09:07:47 >> Thank you, Mr. Crew.
09:07:52 Roll call.
09:07:53 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
09:07:57 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Present.
09:07:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:07:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:08:02 >>CURTIS STOKES: Present.
09:08:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
09:08:06 Board members, it is my honor and distinct pleasure
09:08:20 today to recognize attorney Carolyn House Stewart.
09:08:25 I will ask that she join me and her husband at the
09:08:28 podium here as we make this presentation.
09:08:30 A few weeks ago, there whats a reception in honor of
09:08:35 her and the Board of Directors at the Marriott for
09:08:41 recognizing her for this great accomplishment, serving
09:08:45 as the 28th international president of the Alpha
09:08:50 Kappa alpha sorority founded in 1908.
09:08:56 It is one of the largest sororities, over 250,000
09:09:02 members internationally and globally, and so we want to
09:09:08 recognize her for this great accomplishment.
09:09:11 She has been selected as the president to head this
09:09:14 distinguished organization.
09:09:17 And also it is my understanding that first lady
09:09:22 Michelle Obama is a member as well of this great
09:09:25 So it is an honor today to have Mrs. Stewart here who
09:09:31 is an outstanding citizen in our community and bring
09:09:35 much to this community.
09:09:36 So, council, I want to thank you today as we present to
09:09:39 her this commendation for this great accomplishment.
09:09:45 And of course we look for her as she moves forward with
09:09:49 the board to accomplish great things.
09:09:52 A few weeks ago on Saturday evening, global leadership
09:09:57 through timely service, so we look forward to hearing
09:10:00 from Mrs. Stewart as she moves forward in this
09:10:05 community and nationally and internationally.
09:10:08 On behalf of the Tampa City Council we would like to
09:10:11 present you this commendation for the great
09:10:14 accomplishment in your life.
09:10:18 Nothing happens by accident.
09:10:19 And so this is a great honor and occasion for us and
09:10:25 our blessings are with you as you move forward in your
09:10:28 new assignment.
09:10:30 Thank you so very much.
09:10:33 [ Applause ]
09:10:40 >>CURTIS STOKES: Mrs. Stewart, before you leave, on
09:10:42 behalf of my brothers in alpha Phi alpha,
09:10:49 congratulations on your appointment.
09:10:50 And you will do a great job.
09:10:52 Thank you very much for what you do.
09:10:52 >>> Thank you so much, council members.
09:10:55 It is a singular honor to receive this recognition from
09:10:58 the greatest city in the world.
09:11:03 As I travel I always have Tampa with me.
09:11:05 I was educated here.
09:11:06 I received my nurturing here, my education, and most
09:11:10 importantly my inspiration from great citizens and
09:11:12 great leaders like you.
09:11:14 Thank you very much.
09:11:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to adopt the minutes.
09:11:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
09:11:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:11:40 All in favor?
09:11:42 We'll review the agenda.
09:11:43 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, members
09:11:45 of Tampa City Council.
09:11:46 In front of you, you have the addendum to today's
09:11:48 agenda, some minor changes.
09:11:52 There is a request to by Chairman Scott to add a
09:11:56 discussion regarding the recent concerns from Ybor City
09:12:00 community regarding the installation of TECO polls on
09:12:03 Fifth Avenue.
09:12:03 Would you like Mr. Scott to have that placed under
09:12:05 staff reports and have staff here to discuss that?
09:12:09 >> Yes.
09:12:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: There's also a request in front of
09:12:16 You have a substitute memorandum of understanding for
09:12:19 number 26, and city attorney Jorge Martinez is here.
09:12:27 My understanding is they are changing the name of the
09:12:30 organization to the CP development group 3 LLC and also
09:12:34 a correction of the numbers that are on the memorandum
09:12:38 of understanding totaling $3.5 million.
09:12:42 So that is a request for that.
09:12:44 When you move number 26 to move the substitution.
09:12:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Along with that, requesting someone
09:12:52 from the housing department to address this very
09:12:55 important issue for us as well.
09:12:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Then, council, you also have on item
09:13:03 35 an e-mail from councilman Miranda requesting that
09:13:10 item 35 be removed from the agenda.
09:13:14 And you have some new business items that you could
09:13:17 take up at the end of the meeting.
09:13:18 But other than that, City Council, I am not aware of
09:13:20 any other changes to today's agenda and I present to
09:13:23 the you for your approval.
09:13:24 >>GWEN MILLER: So moved.
09:13:27 >> Second.
09:13:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
09:13:41 We'll take public comment.
09:13:43 If you wish to address City Council on any item on the
09:13:45 agenda, you may come now.
09:13:47 Anyone here wish to address City Council on any item on
09:13:50 the agenda?
09:14:08 >> My name is ed Tillou, and I live in north, and I
09:14:18 live in north Tampa and I was coming to address
09:14:21 something, I understand Mr. Miranda is associated with
09:14:28 most of all.
09:14:31 Items 38 and 41 but I would like to postpone that,
09:14:35 something that had come up earlier, which is 32, I
09:14:40 Which is Cigar City brewery.
09:14:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry to interrupt you but number
09:14:47 32 is set for a particular public hearing, and comments
09:14:51 for that subject will be taken up at that time.
09:14:54 Sometime after 9:30.
09:14:55 >>> You don't know about what time?
09:14:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Sometime shortly after 9:30, I would
09:15:03 >>> Okay.
09:15:05 Then I'll come back on that.
09:15:07 But the thing I was intending to coming on, which I
09:15:11 guess relates most to 38 and 41, which ties together
09:15:19 several things around Tampa.
09:15:24 I heard Mr. Miranda speak at something like an
09:15:27 environmentalist conference, and he was saying that
09:15:31 replacement of the water mains has increased on ten
09:15:34 miles a year to 40 miles a year, but I'm a regular Hart
09:15:40 rider, and Hart should have done more about this rather
09:15:43 than the Hart rider.
09:15:45 But it was terrible disruption of the bus service.
09:15:49 I don't think that was very sensitively done regarding
09:15:52 the buses.
09:15:53 And I think 40 miles a year is more than these people
09:15:56 can cope with.
09:15:57 The ball was in their court, and they dropped it.
09:16:00 I am a civil engineer.
09:16:02 And would be that that profession has taken as good
09:16:07 care of me as Mr. Miranda seems to have taken care of
09:16:10 But the thing is, if you want work, engineers for
09:16:17 construction, you have to start looking at the roads.
09:16:19 The roads are starting to deteriorate very badly.
09:16:23 Now, I don't know if Mayor Iorio is running
09:16:32 interference for Mr. Dick Greco because they say he was
09:16:35 very good with public works.
09:16:37 She's even said that.
09:16:38 And the condition of the roads, even people like me
09:16:41 rather than supporting Mr. Turanchik would support Dick
09:16:45 He's going to do something about the roads.
09:16:47 Most especially the roads that the buses have used.
09:16:50 The worst road in the city is Lois.
09:16:52 And the ones that the buses use like 21st and 22nd
09:16:59 avenues, 15th street, even the bus lane has a few
09:17:06 real slams on it.
09:17:09 And the question, also, is when this water work gets
09:17:14 complete how well the roads are going to be fixed,
09:17:16 because it's going to be very heavy inspection of that,
09:17:20 because that is to a large extent how roads in many of
09:17:23 the cities across the country have deteriorated.
09:17:28 Some big rework of something like some kind of utility
09:17:32 in the street has never been properly fixed.
09:17:36 And these are directions I think should be moved
09:17:41 (Bell sounds).
09:17:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right, thank you very much.
09:17:45 Anyone else from the public wish to address council?
09:17:47 On any item that's not an item on the agenda or item
09:17:52 that's not on the agenda you may come.
09:17:57 No one?
09:17:58 Then we'll move to -- yes, sir?
09:18:05 You have to come to the mike.
09:18:06 You have to come to the mike.
09:18:07 Come to the mike.
09:18:08 >> I'm sorry.
09:18:12 Are we here on item number 45?
09:18:17 >> Items on the agenda, sir, unless it's a public
09:18:19 If it's a public hearing --
09:18:23 >> Oh, I'm sorry.
09:18:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That's set for 10:30.
09:18:28 And the gentleman who just spoke previously, I
09:18:32 misspoke, sir.
09:18:33 That item that you wanted to talk about looks like it's
09:18:36 number 45, and it's set for 10:30, sometime after 10:30
09:18:40 in the morning.
09:18:41 I had said 9:30 so I apologize.
09:18:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else?
09:18:47 Then we will move to item 2, ordinance being presented
09:18:52 for the first reading consideration.
09:18:54 Councilman Stokes, do you want to read that?
09:19:00 >>CURTIS STOKES: Ordinance being presented for first
09:19:01 reading consideration.
09:19:02 An ordinance amending ordinance 2010-188 passed and
09:19:07 ordained by the City Council of the City of Tampa on
09:19:10 November 18, 2010, which approved a wet zoning 2(APS)
09:19:14 for 19910 Bruce B. Downs Boulevard, changing the
09:19:17 wording from small venue to large venue, providing for
09:19:20 severability, providing an effective date.
09:19:21 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Second.
09:19:25 Can I comment on that?
09:19:28 >> Councilman Miranda already seconded.
09:19:31 >> That's in my district and I wanted to do it.
09:19:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'll withdraw my second.
09:19:35 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Evidently it was a scrivener's
09:19:38 They had a small venue, and wants to be a large venue.
09:19:43 It's a large business.
09:19:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And small and large means five
09:19:47 people and ten people or what?
09:19:49 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I don't know.
09:19:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Oh, I just wanted to clear it up.
09:19:52 >> The bottom line is the big thing.
09:19:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.
09:19:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So he seconds the motion.
09:19:57 So it's seconded by councilman Caetano.
09:20:00 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:20:03 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
09:20:05 Second reading of the ordinance will be held December
09:20:07 16th at 9:30 a.m.
09:20:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Move now to the committee reports.
09:20:13 Councilwoman Miller, public safety.
09:20:16 >> Move resolutions 3 through 13.
09:20:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
09:20:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Parks and recreation.
09:20:26 Councilman Stokes.
09:20:28 >>CURTIS STOKES: Move items 14 through 20.
09:20:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:20:36 All in favor?
09:20:39 On item 17, that's 63% SLBE.
09:20:48 63% if the backup is correct.
09:20:52 Public works.
09:20:53 Councilman Miranda.
09:20:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move item number 21.
09:20:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Capin.
09:21:01 All in favor?
09:21:05 Finance Committee, Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:21:06 >>MARY MULHERN: I move items 22 and 23.
09:21:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
09:21:14 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:21:20 Building and zoning.
09:21:21 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like to move items 24 to
09:21:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And the substitute 26, and also at
09:21:30 this point, I would like for Ms. West to come forward.
09:21:38 This is 160 units, 3.5 million in the Central Park
09:21:43 Encore area.
09:21:43 So Ms. West?
09:21:46 >> Good morning, members.
09:21:49 This is our continued partnership with the Tampa
09:21:51 Housing Authority, and the redevelopment of the former
09:21:54 Central Park Village site, and Encore development.
09:21:57 This will be the first building to be constructed.
09:22:00 The MLU allocates 3.5 million in federal funds for the
09:22:04 construction of 160 units.
09:22:07 The total construction cost is $24.6 million.
09:22:11 The project is already received tax credit allocation
09:22:15 from the Hillsborough County housing finance agency, so
09:22:19 our funding will complete the funding package.
09:22:22 The construction will begin in January 2011, and we
09:22:25 expect leasing will begin early in 2012.
09:22:28 So we are very proud to be a part of this project.
09:22:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And also understand this is for the
09:22:35 >> Yes, this is a senior project.
09:22:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So I want to highlight that, that good
09:22:42 project for the county and the city working together,
09:22:46 and a total project cost is 24 million?
09:22:50 >> 24.6 million.
09:22:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 24.6 million.
09:22:54 And the county put up most of that and we put in 3.5
09:23:00 I think that's a very good project.
09:23:02 So Central Park is on the move.
09:23:04 Very good.
09:23:05 Thank you, Ms. West, very much.
09:23:07 It's moved and seconded and we have a substitute for
09:23:10 item 26.
09:23:11 All in favor?
09:23:21 Not quite 9:30 yet for the 9:30 items.
09:23:29 We can move to any new business that anyone has.
09:23:32 Councilman Stokes, any new business?
09:23:35 Councilwoman Mulhern?
09:23:36 >>MARY MULHERN: I do.
09:23:39 I guess I'll just read it.
09:23:41 I would like to ask Mr. Shelby to prepare a resolution
09:23:46 for council on December 16th reestablishing City
09:23:50 Council's citizens advisory Budget and Finance
09:23:52 Committee commencing retroactively from October
09:23:56 1st, 2010 and ending September 30, 2011, and I
09:24:02 would like to ask each of you to appoint, or reappoint,
09:24:09 or if the appointees aren't interested in looking for
09:24:15 this to look for another appointee to do this, because
09:24:18 they are going to be reviewing the current budget as it
09:24:21 goes forward so it would be good if this council gets
09:24:24 people on board there.
09:24:26 And mark Anderson, who is the chair of the board, and
09:24:31 my appointee, has agreed to continue.
09:24:33 So I know that he, at least, will continue to do this.
09:24:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So you want us to submit, I guess, to
09:24:40 you and the clerk names of those appointees?
09:24:45 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, it's up to you how you
09:24:48 wish to do it.
09:24:49 >>MARY MULHERN: It would be great if we could have a
09:24:50 resolution to pass on the 16th, and also have the
09:24:54 appointee's name.
09:24:55 I don't remember if we included their name.
09:24:58 Not that their names --
09:25:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes.
09:25:03 If council members can have their names by next week's
09:25:08 CRA meeting, that will give you a week's time, and I
09:25:12 will be able to do the resolution, put in the names and
09:25:14 follow with the clerk so it will make it to the
09:25:17 December 16th agenda.
09:25:18 >>MARY MULHERN: You can e-mail your appointees' names
09:25:30 to Kristina or me.
09:25:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So if they want they can be
09:25:35 >>MARY MULHERN: If they are interested in doing it,
09:25:38 that would be great.
09:25:39 And I know that Spencer Kass, who was Linda's
09:25:44 appointee, I think is willing to do that again.
09:25:50 I don't remember who John's appointee was.
09:25:54 Councilwoman Capin might have to find someone new.
09:26:00 I don't remember who it is.
09:26:07 I'm sure you can.
09:26:08 >> There's a motion and a second by councilman Miranda.
09:26:14 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:26:18 Anything else?
09:26:21 Councilwoman, anything else?
09:26:25 Councilwoman Miller?
09:26:28 Councilwoman Capin?
09:26:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You have a memorandum request from
09:26:34 assistant city attorney Rebecca Kert requesting that a
09:26:37 workshop be scheduled to discuss possible changes to
09:26:39 the city's noise ordinance.
09:26:43 And looking at the calendar, I believe --
09:26:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We had that discussion.
09:26:48 The request was for the fourth Thursday in January.
09:26:52 We already have five so my suggestion would be that we
09:26:55 move to the February.
09:26:56 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And you have nothing scheduled yet
09:26:58 but the commendation for the police Officer of the
09:27:01 Month at 9:00.
09:27:05 February 24th then at 9 a.m.?
09:27:08 >> So moved.
09:27:09 >> Second.
09:27:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:27:11 All in favor?
09:27:17 Any other new business?
09:27:34 By the time we swear all the witnesses in, we'll be
09:27:37 right at 9:30.
09:27:38 If you are going to be speaking to council, please
09:27:40 stand at this time and be sworn.
09:27:41 (Oath administered by Clerk)
09:27:49 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, I ask that all written
09:27:51 communications which are relative to today's hearings
09:27:55 that have been available for public inspection in City
09:27:58 Council's office be received and filed into the record
09:27:59 by motion at this time, please.
09:28:01 >> So moved.
09:28:04 >> Second.
09:28:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: A reminder, if you have verbal
09:28:11 communication with any petitioner, his or her
09:28:13 representative or any member of the public in
09:28:15 connection with any of today's hearings, that member of
09:28:19 council should prior to action on that hearing disclose
09:28:21 the person or persons, group or entity with whom the
09:28:23 verbal communication occurred, and the substance of
09:28:25 that verbal communication.
09:28:27 Finally, ladies and gentlemen, there is a sign-up sheet
09:28:31 outside at the lectern, and if you are going to be
09:28:34 speaking, please be sure that you have signed the
09:28:36 sign-in sheet so the clerk does have a record of it.
09:28:40 Thank you very much.
09:28:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:28:45 We have two minutes.
09:28:47 We moved fast today.
09:28:47 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land Development Coordination.
09:29:06 Chairman Scott, item number 32 required a certified
09:29:09 site plan.
09:29:09 That site plan has been certified and can move to
09:29:12 second reading.
09:29:13 Item 33 had no site plans and no certification was
09:29:17 Other than that, everything for rezoning and special
09:29:19 uses is ready to move forward this morning.
09:29:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:29:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: On item 30.
09:29:40 Item 30 was a unanimous vote with councilman Caetano
09:29:46 being absent at the time of that vote.
09:29:50 The clerk has made a notation of that.
09:29:58 Item 30.
09:29:58 I was saying item 30 was a unanimous vote with the
09:30:02 councilman Caetano being absent at the time of that
09:30:04 vote according to the record by the clerk.
09:30:09 And of course this is related to alleyway, vacating of
09:30:16 an alleyway on 22nd street and Emma street.
09:30:20 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And I hear the clock strike 9:30.
09:30:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
09:30:26 Councilwoman Mulhern, do you want to read item 30?
09:30:33 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to open the public hearings.
09:30:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: On all the 9:30 items.
09:30:37 Moved and seconded.
09:30:38 All in favor?
09:30:40 Anyone from the public wish to address council on item
09:30:43 Item 30.
09:30:44 Anyone wish to address council on item 30?
09:30:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
09:30:47 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
09:30:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:30:49 All in favor?
09:30:50 Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:30:51 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance presented for
09:30:55 second reading and adoption, an ordinance vacating,
09:30:57 closing, discontinuing, abandoning a certain
09:31:00 right-of-way alleyway lying south of Cayuga street
09:31:03 north of AME street east of 22nd street and west of
09:31:06 24th street in north beauty Heights subdivision in
09:31:08 the City of Tampa, Hillsborough County, Florida, the
09:31:11 same being more fully described in section 2 hereof
09:31:14 subject to certain easements, covenants, conditions and
09:31:17 restrictions as more particularly described herein
09:31:20 providing an effective date.
09:31:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Capin.
09:31:28 Record your vote.
09:31:29 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
09:31:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 31.
09:31:39 Item 31.
09:31:40 Anyone wish to address council on item 31?
09:31:43 Item 31.
09:31:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
09:31:47 >> Second.
09:31:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
09:31:50 Councilman Miranda.
09:31:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move an ordinance presented for
09:31:53 second reading and adoption, an ordinance vacating
09:31:54 closing dis continuing abandoning a certain
09:31:57 right-of-way a portion of Cass Street, Central Avenue
09:32:00 and orange street lying south of Harrison street, north
09:32:02 of Cass Street, east of Pierce Street, and west of
09:32:05 governor street in plan of Newcomb's subdivision, a
09:32:09 portion of Scott street lying south of Kay street, east
09:32:12 of the of orange street, north of Cass Street and west
09:32:15 of governor street in Mobley subdivision, if you find
09:32:19 that location let me know, in the city of Tampa,
09:32:21 Florida, Hillsborough County, Florida, the same being
09:32:24 more fully described in section 2 hereof subject to
09:32:28 certain easements, covenants, conditions and
09:32:30 restrictions as more particularly described herein
09:32:33 providing an effective date.
09:32:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?
09:32:38 Seconded by councilman Stokes.
09:32:42 Record your vote, please.
09:32:43 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Caetano being absent
09:32:49 at vote.
09:32:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 32.
09:32:52 Anyone from the public wish to address council on item
09:32:55 Item 32.
09:32:56 Anyone wish to address council on item 32?
09:33:02 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
09:33:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:33:06 All in favor?
09:33:07 Councilwoman Miller.
09:33:08 >>GWEN MILLER: I move to adopt the following ordinance
09:33:11 upon second reading.
09:33:12 An ordinance repealing ordinance number 2008-168
09:33:16 approving a special use permit S-2 for alcoholic
09:33:19 beverage sales, small venue and making lawful the sale
09:33:23 of beverages containing alcohol regardless of alcoholic
09:33:26 content, beer, wine and liquor, 4(COP-R), for
09:33:30 consumption on the premises only in connection with a
09:33:32 restaurant business establishment at or from that
09:33:35 certain lot, plot or tract of land locate at 3035-3037
09:33:40 West Kennedy Boulevard, Tampa, Florida, as more
09:33:42 particularly described in section 3 hereof providing
09:33:45 for repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
09:33:47 effective date.
09:33:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?
09:33:51 Moved and seconded.
09:33:53 Record your vote.
09:33:55 Thank you.
09:33:55 Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:33:57 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda and Capin
09:34:08 voting no, and Caetano being absent at vote.
09:34:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 33. Anyone wish to address
09:34:27 council on item 33?
09:34:29 >> Eunice Butt, American Legion post 167.
09:34:34 I did sign up to speak and I have been sworn in.
09:34:36 I would like to take this time to thank the City
09:34:37 Council, Mrs. Feeley and anyone else that was involved
09:34:42 for the education on this particular zoning.
09:34:46 At this time, we agree, and we go along with the
09:34:51 Thank you so much for the education.
09:34:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So everything has been worked out.
09:34:57 Everything explained.
09:34:59 Thank you very much.
09:35:02 And move forward.
09:35:03 Anyone else from the public?
09:35:06 Motion to close?
09:35:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
09:35:09 >> So moved.
09:35:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:35:11 All in favor?
09:35:13 Councilwoman Capin.
09:35:16 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you, chairman.
09:35:17 I move ordinance being presented for second reading and
09:35:21 An ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity
09:35:23 of 3820 north 53rd street in the City of Tampa and
09:35:29 more particularly described in section 1 from zoning
09:35:31 district classifications RM-16 residential multifamily
09:35:36 to CG commercial general providing an effective date.
09:35:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.
09:35:43 Record your vote, please.
09:35:44 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Caetano being absent
09:35:56 at vote.
09:35:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have more one more under 9:30 and
09:36:03 we move to ten, we are way ahead of schedule.
09:36:06 If administration is listening we can move staff
09:36:08 reports up and take them a little earlier than ten.
09:36:13 Item 34.
09:36:15 Item 34.
09:36:16 Anyone wish to address council on item 34?
09:36:23 >>SAL TERRITO: I'm here for number 34 which is a pass
09:36:26 through for Tampa preparatory school, a refunding that
09:36:29 we do on a routine basis for a lot of these
09:36:32 We do receive a fee for this and the city doesn't bear
09:36:35 any financial responsibility for the for the payback.
09:36:37 >> Move the resolution.
09:36:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Was there a motion to close the
09:36:46 public hearing?
09:36:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
09:36:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do we need to close the public hearing?
09:36:52 Moved and seconded.
09:36:53 All in favor?
09:36:57 We have a motion by councilman Miranda, seconded by
09:36:59 Councilwoman Mulhern.
09:37:01 All in favor?
09:37:08 We will move now to our 10:00 items.
09:37:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Item 35 has been removed from the
09:37:17 Item 36 is a ministerial item regarding council
09:37:23 authorizing the use of the city seal.
09:37:24 That's a resolution.
09:37:25 We can move the resolution.
09:37:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
09:37:29 >> Second.
09:37:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:37:31 All in favor?
09:37:45 While the deputy chief is here we'll take up those
09:37:53 items related to, I believe, 34th street and
09:37:58 Do you want to come forward, chief?
09:38:00 >> Marc Hamlin, assistant chief of police on behalf of
09:38:09 the police department.
09:38:10 In regards to the fatality accident at 34th and
09:38:13 Chelsea, on September 2nd, 2010, our criminal
09:38:17 investigation is complete, and we forwarded our
09:38:20 findings to the state attorney's office.
09:38:24 And had some discussion was them.
09:38:25 However, we are waiting for a decision from them as far
09:38:27 as the criminal case is concerned.
09:38:29 We hope to get that decision the next couple of weeks.
09:38:31 I can't really comment publicly or release any intimate
09:38:35 details which may compromise the investigation.
09:38:37 I can tell you that our detectives found no defect in
09:38:40 the intersection or in the road conditions which are
09:38:43 contributing causes to the crash.
09:38:44 And I know that was one of the concerns of the council.
09:38:47 Our detectives believe that the crash was due solely to
09:38:50 contribute being causes of human factors, not the
09:38:55 Unfortunately, it wouldn't be fair to the families of
09:38:57 the deceased and for the judicial process for me to
09:39:01 comment any further.
09:39:03 If you have any questions I can answer them maybe one
09:39:05 on one through a phone call or anything like that
09:39:08 unless they are just general questions.
09:39:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions by council?
09:39:12 So pretty much, pending from the state attorney
09:39:19 investigation and whether they are going to file
09:39:22 >> And this is a public meeting.
09:39:24 Anything we say can be used in a criminal case and I
09:39:26 wouldn't want to compromise that right now but I can
09:39:29 talk to you guys one on one if there are any questions.
09:39:31 But I can say our detectives have no issue with the
09:39:34 intersection or anything that contributed physically
09:39:37 from the intersection to the crash.
09:39:39 Solely human factor.
09:39:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
09:39:46 >>> Happy holidays.
09:39:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You too.
09:39:54 Item 37.
09:40:05 It had to do with the schedule of fees for the park.
09:40:11 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Administrator for public works,
09:40:13 utility services.
09:40:14 I know you all are aware of our financial situation in
09:40:17 the parking division.
09:40:20 Awhile back you approved a resolution that allowed to
09:40:24 us charge special fees for reserved parking.
09:40:27 And that's gone really well in the Fort Brooke garage.
09:40:31 This resolution would allow us to do that in other
09:40:34 garages where there's a demand for again reserved
09:40:38 parking and be reserved for 24 hours.
09:40:41 Again, we have a higher fee just for that reserve
09:40:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Are there also other fees for people
09:40:50 who don't want 24-7, right?
09:40:54 There was a list of them.
09:40:55 >>> No other of our fees are changing as far as the
09:40:59 amount people are paying.
09:41:01 There's some time changes here.
09:41:02 >> And a $20 fee for something, so fort, I guess the
09:41:09 parking increases.
09:41:11 >>> Yes, sir.
09:41:12 Predominantly the only thing that's significantly
09:41:14 changing in here is again allowing us to charge that
09:41:17 reserve fee.
09:41:20 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: What's going to be the
09:41:24 anticipated increase in reserve fees and how much
09:41:27 revenue do you anticipate?
09:41:29 >>> Well, we are not planning to do it in all of the
09:41:31 garages at one time, because it's mostly downtown and
09:41:34 not some of the other garages.
09:41:37 So we are going to have to see what the demand would
09:41:40 This might be something in the order of magnitude of a
09:41:43 couple of hundred thousand dollars a year.
09:41:46 Again it's not going to fix our budget, but it will be
09:41:48 a help in that enter praise fund.
09:41:52 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Thank you.
09:41:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?
09:41:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Move the resolution.
09:41:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
09:41:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
09:42:01 Motion by Councilwoman Miller, second by councilman
09:42:04 All in favor?
09:42:07 Item 39 on MacDill.
09:42:18 >>JEAN DORZBACK: Transportation manager.
09:42:20 I have got a 51-page document that I would like to
09:42:25 provide you, if that's okay.
09:42:43 We had a number of conversations and meetings regarding
09:42:47 traffic issues in the area particularly as it relates
09:42:52 to the gate at MacDill Air Force Base, and thought
09:42:55 it might be helpful to just summarize actions that have
09:42:59 been taken over the last year to look at means to
09:43:06 mitigate the situation down there in terms of traffic,
09:43:10 and also per council motion to summarize the
09:43:15 communication, the works that we have done with
09:43:17 MacDill Air Force Base personnel.
09:43:19 So if you kind of look on the left hand column of this
09:43:23 document -- I know you are just receiving it --
09:43:26 basically, that's a summary of the action we have taken
09:43:30 through coordination with the MacDill Air Force
09:43:33 personnel to make some adjustments, to try to minimize
09:43:38 wait times and minimize other issues as relates to
09:43:40 traffic congestion.
09:43:42 Just in summary, you can see we have done a number of
09:43:45 studies, and we have adjusted signal timings at the
09:43:50 We have put signage up to address cut-through traffic,
09:43:54 gotten some positive comments back from the community
09:43:56 as far as that goes.
09:43:57 We have adjusted our truck route signage, also got
09:44:01 positive feedback from the community on that.
09:44:05 We have applied through planning and growth management
09:44:08 department a couple of grants that are going to allow
09:44:11 for increase load through this gate because of the
09:44:15 security measures that will be modified.
09:44:17 We had a recent stormwater project to reroute the
09:44:22 traffic in the area, as the portion of Bayshore was
09:44:25 closed, and we saw as evidence from that project, and
09:44:27 we certainly need that Bayshore gate to stay open, and
09:44:30 it was a good experiment for us to make some changes to
09:44:34 some of the signal timings, to allow for the traffic,
09:44:39 to continue flow during that construction.
09:44:41 Construction is complete now, and the project is done.
09:44:44 We also have funding in our capital budget for next
09:44:47 year, for a road improvement that will make some
09:44:52 improvements for congestion that occurs on Interbay
09:44:56 Boulevard as traffic is trying to get over to the gate
09:45:02 which opened up last year, and the MacDill
09:45:06 personnel in monitoring that in different measurement
09:45:10 and have given us a lot of positive feedback as far as
09:45:12 how that gate has reduced the weight times on Bayshore
09:45:18 and how they have improved their traffic flow through
09:45:20 that gate, through their modification of their security
09:45:22 checking there.
09:45:24 And finally, they have had a lot of success with their
09:45:27 flextime program.
09:45:28 They have got employees coming in between the hours of
09:45:32 6 a.m. and 9 a.m. now, and that has significantly had
09:45:36 an impact on the wait times as people are coming in
09:45:39 over a longer period of time in the morning.
09:45:41 So again, this is a summary of our work that we will
09:45:45 continue with in the MacDill group, and we have
09:45:48 seen a lot of positive outcomes thus far.
09:45:50 If you have any questions, I would be glad to take
09:45:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, let me just thank you for the
09:45:55 time that you put in, and for the attention that you
09:45:58 have given to this, as we raise the issue, and it's
09:46:02 obvious that you have been working on it, and certainly
09:46:04 council really appreciates that.
09:46:12 As well as the capital projects for next year.
09:46:14 So these very good.
09:46:16 Steve, did you want to add anything?
09:46:21 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I'm here on behalf of the Diacco
09:46:24 The issues that we talked about -- and Jean and I
09:46:28 talked about this briefly -- were to explore the
09:46:30 opportunity of a queuing lane of some kind at the
09:46:34 Bayshore gate, whether it's inside, or along the side
09:46:38 of Bayshore.
09:46:39 There's not a lot of right-of-way available, but one of
09:46:43 the grants is going to look at that.
09:46:45 Is that true?
09:46:45 >> Actually, the grant won't look at that.
09:46:49 We have done a fairly brief concept look at that
09:46:53 suggestion, and because the right-of-way as Steve
09:46:57 mentioned, and also with some bridge structures that
09:47:00 are out there along Bayshore, at this time we don't see
09:47:03 that as a cost feasible project.
09:47:04 We can go forward with.
09:47:07 We would like to continue on these other projects that
09:47:10 I mentioned and see what positive result we get through
09:47:14 those, and it may be that these other modifications to
09:47:18 the gate that the grant has proposed will offset the
09:47:22 need for a queue along the Bayshore there.
09:47:25 >>STEVE MICHELINI: If they are going to route traffic
09:47:28 through Interbay Boulevard, there are stop signs
09:47:31 between Bayshore and Dale Mabry.
09:47:36 They are trying to expedite traffic going to the west,
09:47:40 that we should probably look at those stop signs and
09:47:43 consider either changing them or eliminating them as
09:47:46 We would like to be kept advised of the actions that
09:47:49 are being taken place that will help to mitigate this
09:47:53 traffic problem, and we'll continue working with the
09:47:56 transportation department.
09:47:57 Perhaps in 60 days to come back and give us another
09:48:00 idea of whether these measures are working.
09:48:03 Since the stormwater programs that was tying up traffic
09:48:07 will be gone, and also perhaps look at some of the
09:48:10 traffic counts on that south Bayshore section.
09:48:15 To see if it's working or not.
09:48:20 >>JEAN DORZBACK: Well, I can say as far as some of
09:48:21 these recommendations that we made are more longer term
09:48:26 than 60 days.
09:48:27 The grants, we haven't heard back whether we are
09:48:30 getting funding for the grants or funding for the road
09:48:32 project, in our next year's budget.
09:48:34 So we would certainly continue our conversations with
09:48:37 Mr. Michelini, and of course the base.
09:48:40 I don't know if we will be able to come back in 60 days
09:48:43 with anything significant.
09:48:47 Maybe contact council when we have something more
09:48:51 meaningful to provide would be the best.
09:48:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, you kept me informed and briefed
09:48:57 So why don't I suggest in 60 days at least send a
09:49:04 report to me and keep me abreast, apprised.
09:49:07 >> Definitely we would like to be informed on that.
09:49:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So just pretty much a report in 60
09:49:16 days before council, I guess, probably would be in
09:49:20 Is that sufficient?
09:49:21 Even if you don't have anything, at least we, there
09:49:27 seems to be a lot of interest into Bayshore and making
09:49:30 You have done a great job.
09:49:33 I have to commend you for what you have done, and I
09:49:35 really appreciate you briefing me a couple of weeks ago
09:49:39 before you got sick.
09:49:42 >>JEAN DORZBACK: Yes.
09:49:43 Sorry about that.
09:49:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Given the background information has
09:49:45 been very helpful.
09:49:47 So I just want to say thank you and commend you for
09:49:51 what you have done, and so the motion will be just come
09:49:53 back, you know, with whatever report you have, keep us
09:49:58 kind of up to date.
09:50:05 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Ms. Dorzback, I also want to thank you.
09:50:07 I was briefed on all the projects.
09:50:08 And as someone driving Bayshore every day, I've noticed
09:50:13 the difference very much.
09:50:15 As far as Interbay and stop signs, there's residents
09:50:20 along Interbay.
09:50:21 So I would look at that of the residents along Interbay
09:50:29 as far as that's concerned.
09:50:31 Again, thank you.
09:50:33 It's an excellent job.
09:50:35 I look forward to the report.
09:50:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, there's a motion to report back
09:50:41 in 60 days.
09:50:43 Moved and seconded.
09:50:44 >> Who seconded?
09:50:47 >> Councilwoman Capin.
09:50:49 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
09:50:51 Thank you very much, Ms. Dorzback.
09:50:55 I think you are also here on 41.
09:50:58 >>JEAN DORZBACK: Yes, I am.
09:50:59 And I believe you all received this memo previously,
09:51:04 but I just wanted to have it available again in case it
09:51:07 wasn't in your packet.
09:51:08 I don't know.
09:51:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, that's fine.
09:51:11 >> Yes, there is a request to report back on our
09:51:23 walk-by plan that is actually being conducted by the
09:51:26 MPO, the metropolitan planning organization.
09:51:31 It's actually a plan, not just a study, and the plan
09:51:34 got kicked off in September, being funded by the MPO
09:51:39 and they are keeping us in as a strong partner on the
09:51:43 Basically, the product that we are looking for, to come
09:51:47 out of this, is a list of projects, bicycle improvement
09:51:51 projects, that will either be proposed through a
09:51:55 complete street upgrade or possibly a stand-alone
09:51:59 And we have a number of stakeholders that have already
09:52:02 been contacted and interviewed that are listed on your
09:52:08 memorandum there.
09:52:09 We will have additional public meetings before the
09:52:12 project is complete or the plan is complete, which is
09:52:16 scheduled to be March of this coming year.
09:52:19 There's a Web site on the metropolitan planning
09:52:22 organization for anyone in the general public that
09:52:24 would like to be involved, or make comments.
09:52:28 The issues, concerns, or projects that they think
09:52:31 should be considered.
09:52:32 Because of funding being somewhat limited, we are
09:52:36 starting out with focusing on our three major growth
09:52:39 areas, which are USF, Westshore, and the downtown, and
09:52:44 our hope is to expand the next phase as planned to look
09:52:48 at those other additional areas in the growth areas.
09:52:52 So we are expecting to have a product in March that
09:52:55 will have a listing of actual projects that we can
09:52:59 implement through either our complete streets or
09:53:01 possibly a stand-alone project.
09:53:03 >> And the funding through the federal government in
09:53:08 terms of the neighborhood stabilization program.
09:53:11 Anything of that nature will be available?
09:53:12 >> Part of what we'll do under this plan is to look at
09:53:15 different funding opportunities.
09:53:17 The challenge we have with bicycle projects is there's
09:53:20 not a dedicated fund source per se.
09:53:24 So we have to be somewhat creative and look for
09:53:27 opportunities through mainly roadway projects,
09:53:31 including other bigger projects.
09:53:33 So we will be looking at trying to come up with some
09:53:35 newer fund sources for these type projects.
09:53:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What about money coming through the
09:53:42 >> The MPO is interested in putting their sources on
09:53:48 bicycle projects.
09:53:49 Again they have to do these as the money comes along
09:53:54 but they want to make these priority projects.
09:53:56 >>MARY MULHERN: We are working with the livable
09:54:01 roadways committee with the MPO to create a bicycle
09:54:04 safety --
09:54:07 >> Action plan.
09:54:08 >> The action plan, right.
09:54:10 So we are had working on it from that level.
09:54:12 But I want to suggest to you -- and I will do this at
09:54:15 the MPO, also -- but Ray LaHood, the secretary of
09:54:20 transportation is very committed to bicycles.
09:54:22 So I think there probably are grants available from
09:54:27 somewhere in transportation.
09:54:28 There's going to be federal grants available for this.
09:54:30 So really, you know, whoever you can get on your staff
09:54:32 to do some research and see what's out there, and maybe
09:54:38 reach out to Kathy Castor's office or Bill Nelson and
09:54:42 see what's out there.
09:54:45 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Again, any part of this having to do,
09:54:54 or in the future with education for the vehicles, the
09:54:59 drivers as far as watching out for the bicyclists, you
09:55:05 know, just what exactly?
09:55:08 Is there anything in the -- that you are looking at, or
09:55:11 that --
09:55:14 >>JEAN DORZBACK: Yes, that is very important and a very
09:55:17 key issue.
09:55:17 The bicycle safety action plan that Councilwoman
09:55:22 Mulhern mentioned, we just had our first workshop on
09:55:25 Monday, and the one of the purposes of that plan is to
09:55:29 come up with strategies for engineering and enforcement
09:55:34 and education, the three E's, as they call it, to see
09:55:38 what can be done to improve safety for pedestrians and
09:55:41 bicyclists, and of course that would involve education
09:55:43 on both sides.
09:55:45 So through that bicycle safety action plan, that will
09:55:48 be addressed.
09:55:49 This particular plan, this walk-bike plan is sort of a
09:55:55 subset of the other action plan which was recently
09:55:57 directed by the BOCC and this council to undertake.
09:56:01 So this is a subset of that, to actually come up with
09:56:04 some physical projects that we can start put something
09:56:07 resources on and start building.
09:56:10 So this would be an engineering piece that would be
09:56:13 part of the bigger action plan that will be coming out
09:56:15 sometime early next year.
09:56:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?
09:56:22 Thank you very much.
09:56:23 Thank you very much.
09:56:29 We move to item 40.
09:56:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I saw Ms. Cole here.
09:56:38 I'll see if she's outside.
09:56:51 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
09:56:52 I have presented council with an ordinance which would
09:56:58 codify the previous notice provisions which I had
09:57:01 submitted to you, and we had workshops.
09:57:04 I want to say about six weeks ago.
09:57:07 And in addition to that, actually consolidate each of
09:57:13 the notice requirements in each separate portion of the
09:57:17 code into one section of the code which is why this
09:57:19 ordinance seems so large, because as I was going
09:57:21 through this process, we had been restating notice
09:57:24 requirements in a variety of different sections of
09:57:27 So in essence, it seems like a much larger ordinance.
09:57:31 It really is simply just taking everything and
09:57:34 consolidating it.
09:57:35 While I was going through that process, I saw a couple
09:57:38 places where we used appeal.
09:57:40 I changed that over to review because that's our new
09:57:42 process and a couple of minor scrivener type changes.
09:57:48 I thought we could get those cleaned up as well.
09:57:51 I committed submitted to you a bullet point of the
09:57:56 The only thing I can say for benefit of City Council
09:57:58 and benefit of the public among the largest change is
09:58:01 one in which we create a category for good neighbor
09:58:07 notice, participating organizations, which would be
09:58:09 inclusive of both the officially registered
09:58:11 neighborhood associations that today, as well as the
09:58:15 opportunity for other organizations to register online
09:58:19 to receive notice.
09:58:20 It is going to take a period of time for our I.T. folks
09:58:25 to get that portion up and running.
09:58:26 So per this ordinance, the portion of the participating
09:58:31 organization for those newly registered organizations
09:58:34 won't go into effect until March 31st, 2011.
09:58:39 So all applications filed after March 31st, 2011,
09:58:45 will be obligated to also notice these newly registered
09:58:48 participating organizations, and until that time, it
09:58:50 will really not be any different than what they are
09:58:56 doing right now.
09:58:57 If you have any questions I am happy to answer them.
09:58:59 I had brought this to you.
09:59:00 You can read the ordinance today at first reading, go
09:59:03 ahead and set second reading, or if you would like to
09:59:05 just go ahead and put this on your next agenda for
09:59:07 first reading.
09:59:08 I'll leave that up to City Council.
09:59:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This addresses the whole incident of
09:59:13 the public notice in Channelside so hopefully this
09:59:16 won't happen in the future with these changes.
09:59:18 >>JULIA COLE: Yes.
09:59:19 And for everybody's benefit the more significant change
09:59:22 that we have made is to identify specifically what list
09:59:27 is used for the purpose of notice and also that failure
09:59:32 to have proper notice in the land use.
09:59:36 Again I'm available for any questions.
09:59:37 >>MARY MULHERN: I think this is a very good change,
09:59:43 especially making it consistent.
09:59:46 And my question is -- because I think there are a lot
09:59:50 of organizations out there that are -- our list is
09:59:54 actually pretty small of the recognized neighborhood
09:59:57 So if they are going to be from education, some notice
10:00:04 about the opportunity, you know, in all the
10:00:08 publications that the city, you know, co-sponsors and
10:00:11 everything, to let the neighborhoods know, that there
10:00:16 is going to be now an opportunity to register online.
10:00:20 That's my question.
10:00:21 It's probably for -- maybe not for legal, but for --
10:00:28 >>JULIA COLE: The administration was very involved in
10:00:29 the concept of going ahead and creating the opportunity
10:00:32 for an online list, and we talked with them about
10:00:35 maybe --
10:00:36 >>MARY MULHERN: Maybe neighborhood services could do
10:00:38 That would be a really good thing.
10:00:40 Thanks, Julia.
10:00:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So we need to put it on for first
10:00:47 >>MARY MULHERN: First reading at our next regular
10:00:49 council meeting.
10:00:50 >> Second.
10:00:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The 16th, the first reading.
10:00:54 Moved and seconded.
10:00:55 That's the motion by Councilwoman Mulhern, seconded by
10:00:59 Councilwoman Capin.
10:01:00 All in favor?
10:01:04 Item 42.
10:01:07 Mr. Fletcher?
10:01:09 Somebody from legal?
10:01:15 I'm sorry, Mr. Huey from economic.
10:01:19 >>MARK HUEY: Economic development.
10:01:20 Item 42 concerns the discussion the council had a
10:01:24 number of weeks ago about assisting small businesses,
10:01:28 possibly through assisting with lending.
10:01:30 I know council is always sensitive to the plight of
10:01:35 small businesses, and certainly that discussion
10:01:36 reflected your interest in supporting small businesses.
10:01:41 I can tell you it's a very dynamic environment, and it
10:01:45 has been for small businesses since the recession
10:01:49 When the recession occurred and credit markets
10:01:52 tightened, the availability of credit to small
10:01:54 businesses was significantly cut off.
10:01:57 You should be aware the federal government did step in
10:02:01 in a very significant way through the Small Business
10:02:03 Administration, and they provided through the federal
10:02:06 stimulus program a 90% backing of small business loans,
10:02:12 so they assumed 90% of the risk.
10:02:14 Again, in an effort to stimulate small business
10:02:17 It was very successful until it expired in May.
10:02:21 And so since around May 31st, credit for small
10:02:24 businesses really dropped off.
10:02:27 The good news for small businesses is that it got
10:02:30 reinstituted, because of an outcry from small
10:02:32 businesses around the country, the program was put back
10:02:35 in place.
10:02:36 It's been in place since October but expires again in
10:02:41 That has been the major public participation in lending
10:02:46 for small businesses.
10:02:49 The City of Tampa at one time had a program in this
10:02:55 I wasn't here then.
10:02:57 I'm trying to gather up a little bit of information
10:02:59 about that.
10:03:02 It was funded through federal moneys, not through local
10:03:06 taxpayer moneys.
10:03:07 And I know that is a concern.
10:03:11 Certainly our legal department has shared some initial
10:03:14 observations about some concerns that we would like to
10:03:17 research about whether the general fund proceeds could
10:03:20 be used to back or support in any way small business
10:03:25 I can tell you some CRAs around the state have some
10:03:31 small business lending programmings.
10:03:32 We actually, before the TIF revenues in East Tampa
10:03:36 declined, looked at doing one in East Tampa.
10:03:38 CRA funding has more flexibility than the general fund.
10:03:43 Beyond that, there are many players in our community
10:03:46 who are involved in trying to help small businesses
10:03:49 with lending.
10:03:50 And you are familiar with many of them.
10:03:53 TEDCO, black business investment corporation, many
10:03:57 different intermediaries in our market, neighborhood
10:04:01 lending partners, a lot of organizations working with
10:04:04 private banks to try to provide credit.
10:04:07 So we are familiar with the issue.
10:04:10 We are familiar we've the dynamics and would be glad to
10:04:12 support council in any way they see fit and looking at
10:04:17 the matter further.
10:04:18 >> Let me just say this was brought to us by councilman
10:04:27 Stokes and I said at that time I would support it for
10:04:32 However, I wanted us to move cautiously.
10:04:37 In my discussion with legal there are some concerns
10:04:38 that they have.
10:04:39 My suggestion would be that we put it on for a
10:04:43 workshop, and more discussion, but I am concerned
10:04:47 because first of all in terms of ad valorem, we don't
10:04:50 have any -- we took what was it, 12 million.
10:04:55 >> 19 million.
10:04:57 >> 19 million out of reserves this year.
10:05:00 Make sure we have a deficit -- a shortfall.
10:05:03 So I don't know where the money would come.
10:05:05 And the projection is it's going to be worse this
10:05:07 coming fiscal year.
10:05:08 >> Right.
10:05:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So there's an issue relative to legal
10:05:12 that has a concern about.
10:05:14 But if councilman Stokes' workshop, I'm open to that to
10:05:20 listen to all parties, but I do want to be very careful
10:05:23 with this, because of the fact, I don't know the money,
10:05:28 where it's going to come from.
10:05:30 Then when you get into local government doing the
10:05:32 lending these loans, other than what we did through the
10:05:35 CRA was the facade, the facade.
10:05:40 You can do that based on the statute.
10:05:42 >>MARK HUEY: Right.
10:05:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here I have a little concern on that.
10:05:49 >>CURTIS STOKES: Thank you, councilman Scott.
10:05:52 I would support any workshop to further study this.
10:05:56 But in the absence of tightening credit, the tightening
10:06:02 credit environment by banks, I think the city should
10:06:05 step in and assist those small business owners, as they
10:06:12 get out of the terrible economic situation we have been
10:06:14 in for the past three or four years, and the board has
10:06:18 in entered into this arena with microlending to assist
10:06:21 some of those businesses.
10:06:22 The BBIC and they do a fantastic job of assistance, but
10:06:31 in the absence of private investment sometimes it's
10:06:34 necessary for government to step in to assist us in the
10:06:37 small businesses.
10:06:38 But I thank you very much, Reverend Scott.
10:06:40 I do appreciate the opportunity to do this in a
10:06:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
10:06:45 I think this is an honorable request and so forth and
10:06:48 so on by councilman Stokes.
10:06:51 The problem is, I was here when this happened the first
10:06:54 Let me tell you what happened, to my limited memory.
10:07:02 You had HUD that gave money to the city to do some of
10:07:06 these things.
10:07:07 Then you had the SBA that was guaranteed by banks.
10:07:14 The moneys dried up.
10:07:15 The banks are not loaning money.
10:07:17 So the banks are not giving money based on the
10:07:20 creditworthiness of the applicant.
10:07:22 How is are the taxpayers going to be responsible for
10:07:26 What happened is this.
10:07:28 A lot of the money went into two areas mainly.
10:07:30 Facade program to Spruce up and make the city look good
10:07:34 which in the long run saves the taxpayers money because
10:07:37 you don't have rundown neighborhoods and rundown
10:07:41 looking businesses where everybody tries to avoid, and
10:07:44 therefore you have deterioration of that area.
10:07:47 And more importantly, a lot of that money went into
10:07:51 fixtures, computers, equipment, and lighting; air
10:08:00 If the loan went bad -- and some did -- they had no
10:08:04 So you had an outstanding loan, where at the time you
10:08:09 gave the loan you had a collapsing value of the assets.
10:08:13 But now the assets have depreciated and the loan is
10:08:16 still there, so therefore the public will become
10:08:19 responsible for that.
10:08:20 And that's what I'm looking at.
10:08:23 Certainly the small business, as most of the city is
10:08:28 blessed, that we don't have many businesses that got 8,
10:08:31 10, 15, 20,000, because when the recession hits like
10:08:34 now they are the first ones to lay off a lot of people.
10:08:37 This whole area is made up mainly of small businesses,
10:08:39 and therefore, although we get hard hit hard like we
10:08:43 are now, it takes a little longer for that to hit, and
10:08:47 has hit us.
10:08:48 So, therefore, I would be very hesitant to support
10:08:53 I'm not opposed to having a workshop.
10:08:54 But I would doubt if I will support it by using
10:08:57 taxpayers moneys.
10:08:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else?
10:09:03 Councilman Stokes, do you want a workshop?
10:09:07 >>CURTIS STOKES: Yes.
10:09:07 I would make a motion we create a workshop.
10:09:14 >>MARK HUEY: And we will be glad to help coordinate
10:09:17 some of the intermediaries and maybe some of the
10:09:20 banking institutions.
10:09:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: To facilitate that.
10:09:24 Again, as I stated earlier, I'm with in Mr. Miranda, I
10:09:28 don't have a problem getting information at a workshop.
10:09:30 But I will move very cautiously.
10:09:35 >>MARK HUEY: I understand.
10:09:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: With the limited resources.
10:09:39 There's a motion and second.
10:09:40 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:09:43 >>THE CLERK: What time would that be?
10:09:45 >> we just set one for 9:00.
10:09:52 So 9:30.
10:09:55 >>THE CLERK: 9:30?
10:09:59 >>CURTIS STOKES: Thanks, mark.
10:10:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have one other AME 10:30 and that's
10:10:03 the TECO item.
10:10:05 Is someone here to address that, and legal?
10:10:13 >> They are here.
10:10:14 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: City attorney.
10:10:20 Based on your memo, we went back and looked at this
10:10:26 Essentially, we have a franchise agreement with TECO
10:10:31 that basically says to get whatever permits we would be
10:10:36 required to get under our normal permitting processes.
10:10:38 And in this case the permits that would have been
10:10:43 required for replacement of a power distribution
10:10:50 system, right-of-way permits, these permits were
10:10:54 They were issued by the right-of-way permitting
10:10:56 department within transportation.
10:10:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Fletcher, let me interrupt because
10:11:05 you and I had a discussion yesterday in my office.
10:11:09 Council, I received e-mails, relative to the issue, and
10:11:13 I talked with Mr. Fletcher about it.
10:11:16 I guess my question is again given that Ybor City is a
10:11:21 historic district, why wasn't there a hearing with the
10:11:25 Barrio Latino commission relative to this issue?
10:11:28 As you know we had a similar problem with the HCC
10:11:32 So do you want to get to that, if you don't mind?
10:11:38 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: That's where I was headed.
10:11:40 We do have a code provision that suggests pretty
10:11:46 clearly that the Howard facility would go to the
10:11:53 However, not similar to HCC, there is an exemption
10:11:59 from -- in Teco's case it's much broader than HCC --
10:12:05 exemption from land development regulations for power
10:12:08 transmission and distribution systems.
10:12:12 So in this case, we would be preempted on that
10:12:15 particular issue.
10:12:18 We do have the authority to control the placement in
10:12:21 the right-of-way.
10:12:21 We do have the authority to control the time and manner
10:12:28 of construction.
10:12:28 But in terms of the zoning and other types of things
10:12:33 that would be in our land development regulations, we
10:12:36 are preempted on that issue, in chapter 1363 and
10:12:40 chapter 380.
10:12:42 So that would be the reason why they did not go to the
10:12:47 BLC for hearing prior.
10:12:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: By Florida statute?
10:12:54 >> That's correct.
10:12:55 It's slightly different from HCC.
10:12:57 HCC still has to comply with our zoning regulations,
10:13:00 but they don't have to meet our building construction
10:13:03 regulations, which is a slightly different issue than
10:13:07 HCC but the same general issue.
10:13:11 >>MARY MULHERN: The city -- our franchise agreement
10:13:23 with TECO, what is the city's role in a big project
10:13:29 like this?
10:13:29 Was the city notified?
10:13:31 When was the city notified?
10:13:33 >> The city, I don't know when they were notified.
10:13:35 But as required --
10:13:38 >> We are the city, right?
10:13:41 >> Pardon?
10:13:42 >>MARY MULHERN: You said "they."
10:13:45 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Let me kind of get to write was
10:13:47 going with that.
10:13:48 What our clear jurisdiction under our Cote code, under
10:13:52 state law and our franchise agreement, is in the
10:13:54 right-of-way, use of the right-of-way.
10:13:59 I am don't know when it happened but there was a
10:14:01 right-of-way permit that was applied for.
10:14:04 That, I believe, was issued, and TECO is here.
10:14:07 They can probably give you exact dates.
10:14:09 I believe that was issued over the summer.
10:14:11 So sometime before that, the permit would have been
10:14:14 applied, would have been the first communication,
10:14:17 formal communication with the city on that issue.
10:14:23 And then they can speak to what other kind of
10:14:26 communications they had during that process.
10:14:28 But that was the point in time where the city as a
10:14:30 whole would have formally been notified of the types of
10:14:33 placements, the scope of the project, and the size of
10:14:37 the poles being placed.
10:14:40 All of those things would have been in that
10:14:42 >> Okay.
10:14:46 So a right-of-way application to the city, is that
10:14:50 approved by the council, also?
10:14:52 Did we approve that?
10:14:54 >> I don't believe those were approved by council.
10:14:58 >> That doesn't have to be approved by council?
10:15:00 >> I don't believe so.
10:15:01 >> Okay.
10:15:02 So if that's the case, and that's the way it has to be
10:15:05 based on the Florida statute, it seems to me that it
10:15:12 becomes the city's, the administration's
10:15:14 responsibility, to let the neighborhood residents,
10:15:19 businesses, and especially in a historic district, know
10:15:23 what is coming.
10:15:24 And that's what's disturbing about this to me, is that
10:15:28 everyone was surprised by it.
10:15:30 And, you know, it's happened before in other
10:15:36 neighborhoods, and there was such big outcry about it.
10:15:42 So whatever is required of TECO by law is what they are
10:15:46 going to do.
10:15:47 But our responsibility to our neighborhoods, especially
10:15:51 our historic neighborhoods, we need to take seriously.
10:15:54 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: If I may, there was some
10:15:58 additional outreach that TECO did voluntarily following
10:16:00 the procedures that we do have in place for larger
10:16:04 facilities that came up, I believe after the Egypt lake
10:16:10 So for larger facilities, there is a more elaborate
10:16:15 public participation process.
10:16:20 My understanding of what occurred, it's very similar to
10:16:23 that process so I believe they followed a similar type
10:16:26 of process in this case, and TECO can speak to how many
10:16:29 letters they mailed out in the meetings they had, and
10:16:32 those types of things.
10:16:33 >> Right, I know.
10:16:35 And we are going to hear from TECO in a minute.
10:16:37 I'm talking to you as our city attorney.
10:16:39 And my feeling that this council has, you know, doesn't
10:16:47 get to weigh in on these kinds of permits.
10:16:49 So there's not much we can do.
10:16:51 But the administration does see those permits, should
10:16:55 be looking at how that's going to affect the
10:16:58 neighborhood, and the city needs to be letting the
10:17:01 neighborhoods know, too.
10:17:06 So I think that really needs to happen.
10:17:08 And I would like to hear -- it does seem to be
10:17:15 something that's been occurring with Ybor City, in
10:17:20 different types of issues.
10:17:22 I mean, I know this is different than the HCC thing,
10:17:25 but there's other parking issues, road issues, things
10:17:31 like that where it keeps kind of bypassing the people
10:17:38 that are really in charge of protecting the historic
10:17:41 So I think it's the city's responsibility to do
10:17:44 something about it.
10:17:45 And I also think -- I mean, I don't know, this is a
10:17:49 legal question for you.
10:17:51 As far as the Florida statute, statewide any utility
10:18:02 does not have to abide by local zoning?
10:18:09 Is that restriction or is this something we have here
10:18:12 in Tampa and Hillsborough County?
10:18:14 >> It is not unique to Tampa.
10:18:15 It is statewide.
10:18:16 Essentially the chapter 1363, which is the chapter that
10:18:21 governs comp plans and development regulations, land
10:18:25 development orders, exempts from the definition of
10:18:28 development utility lines, transmission lines and
10:18:33 distribution lines.
10:18:34 So it takes it out of that regulatory purview.
10:18:40 Essentially, that's how that --
10:18:42 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, what about in historic
10:18:46 Is there an opportunity for some, you know, legislative
10:18:51 change we could ask for in Tallahassee that would, you
10:18:57 know, at least make the -- at the very least make the
10:19:03 notice process?
10:19:06 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: We may be able to expand the
10:19:09 notice process locally.
10:19:10 We probably could that in terms of the right-of-way
10:19:13 permitting process.
10:19:14 I can take a look at that.
10:19:15 We did go back.
10:19:16 Originally, Ybor City historic district was set up by
10:19:20 special act, which by special act we can't have more
10:19:23 authority than allowed by general law.
10:19:25 We did go back and look and see if we could rely on
10:19:28 that per jurisdiction, but when the program was
10:19:32 transferred to city ordinance, that that special act
10:19:35 was repealed, so that wasn't available to us.
10:19:37 So --
10:19:40 >>MARY MULHERN: Yeah, if you could look into that and
10:19:42 see if there's any way that we could be a little more
10:19:45 protective of the historic district.
10:19:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me just follow up.
10:19:51 Also, in terms of the community meetings, I do have
10:19:55 pictures, I guess, from TECO that was e-mailed to us
10:20:00 yesterday evening, last night, and evidently that
10:20:03 they're was some community meeting, I guess TECO is
10:20:05 here, but I don't see many people in these pictures
10:20:08 that represent the neighborhood pretty much.
10:20:10 I don't know what happened there.
10:20:11 I only see TECO workers and employees versus the
10:20:18 And so I know I have several e-mails for people in Ybor
10:20:23 City, Fran Constantino, and a few more e-mails relative
10:20:30 to that, that had no knowledge of any community public
10:20:34 hearings. So maybe TECO can address that here this
10:20:40 morning, because evidently there seems to be that the
10:20:45 neighborhood associations didn't get a notice or were
10:20:47 aware of the public meetings.
10:20:49 >> Stephani Agliano, 702 North Franklin Street.
10:20:57 I know I did send out some information yesterday to
10:21:01 council, going through the details of a public outreach
10:21:04 process that we utilized, not only with this project
10:21:07 but other projects.
10:21:09 And we did meet with several groups as noted in the
10:21:14 We met with -- and we worked very closely with the City
10:21:17 of Tampa to make sure that we are hitting neighborhood
10:21:21 leaders, and if not, residents.
10:21:24 What we do is get the pole line and we take a 500-foot
10:21:30 circle, and we notify those residents of the community
10:21:34 meeting which is one of the last things we do.
10:21:37 In fact, we even included government meetings with City
10:21:41 We usually reach out to those offices and meet with
10:21:45 each one of you all on the project to review that
10:21:49 project to have some input so that we can have all of
10:21:51 that before going into community meetings.
10:21:55 Unfortunately, I can't make people come to a meeting.
10:22:00 I was there at that meeting.
10:22:03 And when you go through the effort that we do, 850
10:22:05 letters are sent out, and three people show, and I even
10:22:09 had the person come in to see what's going on.
10:22:15 I don't know if there's much more that we can do as a
10:22:19 company to make sure people do attend so that they
10:22:21 understand the details of what's going on.
10:22:24 And we also include in the letters our Web site,
10:22:28 because on that Web site, we post the project, where
10:22:31 it's at, all the information along with it.
10:22:35 So that's what we did for this project, and that's what
10:22:38 our practice is for --
10:22:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me raise a question.
10:22:43 Were these neighborhood associations contacted, sent
10:22:47 letters or e-mail?
10:22:48 Because evidently two presidents of the neighborhood
10:22:51 association say they had no knowledge of those
10:22:54 >> As the neighborhood president, Mr. LaColla was not,
10:23:01 and I know that, my regional manager works closely with
10:23:05 City of Tampa to determine neighborhood associations'
10:23:07 key people.
10:23:08 However, as a resident, Mr. LaColla did receive a
10:23:12 For the neighborhood meeting.
10:23:13 >> Fran Constantino as well?
10:23:16 >> And we met with Fran.
10:23:17 >> What about Y CRA DC?
10:23:19 >> We met with that group.
10:23:21 We met with a group that helped put it together with
10:23:23 the FDOT to make sure we were working in sync with the
10:23:26 work that they were doing, and in fact it was the
10:23:28 request of the FDOT that we actually do the work on the
10:23:31 weekend, and we worked with the City of Tampa to make
10:23:33 sure that that was okay.
10:23:34 >> And Palmetto Beach?
10:23:38 >> Jennifer.
10:23:38 We met with Jennifer.
10:23:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So all those people were aware.
10:23:45 I have to take your word, but I am just saying based on
10:23:48 the e-mails of that I got that they said they wasn't
10:23:51 aware, had no knowledge of this.
10:23:53 Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:23:54 >>MARY MULHERN: Yeah, did you meet with us?
10:23:57 I don't remember meeting with TECO on this.
10:23:59 >> Well, and I can find out, but I believe we did, and
10:24:04 I think the only two council people were John and Linda
10:24:07 that we did not -- but we had every opportunity.
10:24:10 We called every office and offered to meet.
10:24:13 And he indicated he did meet with everyone.
10:24:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I don't have any knowledge of meeting
10:24:17 with anyone on this.
10:24:18 >>MARY MULHERN: Yeah, I don't remember meeting on
10:24:22 But my feeling is, you know, you know what your
10:24:29 responsibility is with the community.
10:24:33 My feeling is that the city, you know, you are doing
10:24:37 what you are required to do by law, and the
10:24:42 administration, who you are working closely with, they
10:24:47 need to be protecting the neighborhoods, and noticing
10:24:51 the neighborhood and making sure the neighborhood know.
10:24:54 So, you know, I think your responsibility, I trust that
10:24:58 you, you know, invited all those people and tried to
10:25:01 have all those meetings, but I'm just repeating for Mr.
10:25:07 Fletcher and for the administration that et cetera our
10:25:16 We, you know, agreed to this franchise agreement, and
10:25:20 all the stipulations in it.
10:25:21 And it's our responsibility to make sure that the
10:25:25 neighborhoods know what's coming, and especially in a
10:25:28 historic district.
10:25:29 So I think there's got to be some responsibility on the
10:25:35 part of the administration since this isn't something
10:25:37 that has to come to council.
10:25:39 So in the future, I don't remember having a meeting
10:25:44 with Andrea --
10:25:49 >> and by the way, I think our mailings, they are
10:25:53 When we send those out to the post office to make sure
10:25:56 we have got a record of everyone.
10:25:58 >> So it would be good to know.
10:26:00 It may have happened so long ago, I don't remember.
10:26:03 It's entirely possible.
10:26:04 >> And it's not uncommon.
10:26:06 A lot of people get a lot of things through the mail,
10:26:09 so "I didn't get this."
10:26:13 We did send out --
10:26:15 >>MARY MULHERN: It usually doesn't happen in my office
10:26:17 since I have a super brain in there opening the mail
10:26:19 and making sure I know everything.
10:26:22 But we can look into that.
10:26:24 But I really think that we need as a city to protect
10:26:29 our historic district.
10:26:31 In the future, just please do make -- call me and I'll
10:26:35 meet with anybody, and maybe the timing.
10:26:39 Maybe we met a year ago.
10:26:41 And certainly not going to know that your plans are
10:26:44 where to put those up whenever that was a week ago or a
10:26:47 few weeks ago.
10:26:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yeah, and as I said, I have no
10:26:52 recollection, and I could have.
10:26:56 We are getting older now.
10:26:57 [ Laughter ]
10:26:58 And so we can't recall, Charlie, sometimes, several
10:27:05 years ago.
10:27:06 But I don't have a recollection of meeting with Andrea
10:27:10 or anyone with TECO relative to this issue.
10:27:15 However, I would suggest that perhaps you meet with Mr.
10:27:19 LaColla and Fran and maybe have some discussion with
10:27:22 them as you move forward.
10:27:26 I think it will be in the best interest of TECO and the
10:27:28 community, that some type of meeting of that nature
10:27:33 take place.
10:27:33 >> Absolutely.
10:27:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:27:35 Any other questions?
10:27:39 Thank you very much.
10:27:51 Our 10:30 items.
10:27:52 If you are going to be speaking, please stand to be
10:27:54 sworn at this time.
10:27:56 If you have not been sworn, please stand to be sworn at
10:27:58 this time.
10:27:58 (Oath administered by Clerk)
10:28:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, if I can, just repeat
10:28:10 for those people who came in earlier today, the City
10:28:13 Council moved into the record all the items that have
10:28:16 been received, e-mails and written communications, that
10:28:20 they have received, and they have been available for
10:28:23 public inspection in City Council's office, and they
10:28:26 were moved by City Council into the record and made
10:28:29 part of the record at this time.
10:28:30 Also, there is a sign-up sheet outside, and I ask if
10:28:34 you do testify, you do fill out that sign-in sheet so
10:28:37 the clerk does have a record of your name and the fact
10:28:40 that you did testify.
10:28:40 There's a sign out there to be remind you that if you
10:28:46 have not been sworn please do so.
10:28:48 I assume everybody now who intends to speak has been
10:28:51 That being said, Mr. Chairman, we are a few second away
10:28:55 from 10:30.
10:28:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, we have two items at 10:30 that
10:29:02 are public hearings.
10:29:03 The other two are continued public hearings.
10:29:07 So we can get a motion to open.
10:29:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT:
10:29:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you can hold that till 10:30.
10:29:16 Just a few second away.
10:29:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think only the last four remaining
10:29:30 The only thing we have left on our agenda for the
10:29:33 43 and 44, and 45 and 46.
10:29:42 Do we have any other business that needs to come before
10:29:53 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just the 10:30.
10:29:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
10:30:02 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:30:10 Item 43.
10:30:11 >> Cathy Ginster, assistant city attorney.
10:30:25 Today, there's the first public hearing scheduled for
10:30:29 approval of a city-initiated proposal for a brownfield
10:30:33 area designation.
10:30:36 Which is located over in the north Ybor channel near
10:30:39 the intersection of Channelside Drive and Adamo Drive
10:30:44 consisting of approximately 25.7 acres.
10:30:47 This property is also located in the city's enterprise
10:30:51 zone, and a portion of the property is located within
10:30:53 the city of Channel District community redevelopment
10:30:58 The second public hearing, and council will be asked to
10:31:04 approve the brownfield area designation scheduled for
10:31:07 December 16th, 2010, in these chambers at 10:30
10:31:15 There's a staff report on file with the city clerk's
10:31:17 office for any members of the public who wish to review
10:31:20 the proposed development project.
10:31:23 And City Council's approval of the brownfield area
10:31:26 designation will allow the project property owner to
10:31:28 enter into an agreement with the EPC of Hillsborough
10:31:32 County to rehabilitate, mediate and redevelop the
10:31:38 Thank you.
10:31:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:31:42 This is a public hearing.
10:31:43 Does anyone wish to address Councilman on this item?
10:31:52 >>DAVID MECHANIK: 305 South Boulevard, Tampa, Florida.
10:31:54 I'm here on behalf of the Pinellas County.
10:31:56 We do not have anything to add beyond the staff report,
10:32:01 and what Cathy just advised council, but we are here to
10:32:03 answer any questions.
10:32:04 Thank you.
10:32:06 I appreciate your approval.
10:32:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else from the public on item 43
10:32:10 under brownfield?
10:32:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
10:32:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And second.
10:32:13 All in favor?
10:32:15 Mr. Miranda?
10:32:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, this actually requires
10:32:18 no action on City Council's part.
10:32:21 If you would just announce where he the second public
10:32:23 hearing would be, and that would be the adoption.
10:32:30 I can announce it.
10:32:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: December 16th.
10:32:35 Second public hearing will be December 16th at
10:32:37 10:30 a.m.
10:32:38 So we don't have to take any action?
10:32:41 >>MARTIN SHELBY: No, sir.
10:32:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
10:32:45 We move to item 44.
10:32:46 Item 44.
10:32:47 >> Good morning, council.
10:32:53 My name is Ron VILLA, staff for preservation.
10:32:59 Item 44 is the tax historic preservation within the
10:33:05 Hyde Park historic district.
10:33:11 You see a photo of the exterior of the building.
10:33:13 After rehabilitation, this is a structure that was
10:33:17 built in 1922, with a gable roof line.
10:33:21 You see columns here, lap siding and double-hung wood
10:33:27 Further the rehabilitation is moving to the enter your
10:33:30 as well as the exterior.
10:33:33 This is an example of the period doors that remain
10:33:37 behind, were rehabilitated and then reused, in the same
10:33:45 Turning to more photos of the interior, these are
10:33:48 double hung windows, they were also rehabilitated, and
10:33:52 you see the trim, and the picture around the top of the
10:33:59 head theory was retained.
10:34:00 Some more sensitivity to the structure.
10:34:02 The flooring, the original flooring was repaired and
10:34:06 left in place, and new wood had to be installed.
10:34:10 They installed wood to match the period wood.
10:34:13 To conclude, the circulation to the second floor is the
10:34:19 period-appropriate stairs and location was not removed
10:34:22 or changed.
10:34:24 And the stair was rehabilitated completely.
10:34:28 This application is consistent with the Secretary of
10:34:29 Interior standards for rehabilitation.
10:34:33 Thank you.
10:34:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public wish to address
10:34:38 council on item 44?
10:34:40 Anyone from the public?
10:34:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
10:34:43 >> Second.
10:34:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion by councilman Miranda, seconded
10:34:46 by Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:34:47 All in favor?
10:34:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move an ordinance for first
10:34:57 reading, an ordinance approving a historic preservation
10:35:00 property tax exemption application relative to the
10:35:03 restoration, renovation and rehabilitation of certain
10:35:06 property owned by Jon D. Pellecchia and Julie truster
10:35:12 located at 2113 west hills Avenue, Tampa, Florida in
10:35:16 the Hyde Park historic district based upon certain
10:35:19 findings providing for notice to the property appraiser
10:35:22 of Hillsborough County, providing for severability,
10:35:25 providing for real -- repeal of all ordinances in
10:35:28 conflict, providing an effective date.
10:35:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
10:35:32 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
10:35:35 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:35:38 Second reading of the ordinance will be held December
10:35:40 16th at 9:30 a.m.
10:35:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 45.
10:35:51 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Item number 45 was previously before
10:35:54 you on November 4th.
10:35:57 If it is the pleasure of council I can do a full
10:36:00 This is a request for a 2(APS) beer and wine in
10:36:06 association with a microbrewery.
10:36:08 It did have conditions for hours of operation.
10:36:12 That was Sunday through Thursday, 9 a.m. to 10 p.m. and
10:36:15 Friday and Saturday 9 a.m. to midnight.
10:36:18 Should it be your pleasure I can do a full
10:36:22 Please just let me know.
10:36:24 Oh, I'm sorry, 2(COP).
10:36:26 Not 2(APS).
10:36:27 I'm sorry, 2(COP), in association with a microbrewery
10:36:31 and the hours that I mentioned.
10:36:33 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, if I can just refresh
10:36:36 council's recollection.
10:36:38 Six members of council were present.
10:36:39 Council member Miranda was absent.
10:36:41 There was a motion made by council member Caetano,
10:36:44 seconded by council member Mulhern, to move this
10:36:47 ordinance on first reading.
10:36:49 That motion failed on a 3-3 tie: To refresh council's
10:36:55 recollection with regard to its revised procedure, if a
10:37:00 motion fails to receive at least four votes, again as
10:37:03 required by the charter, the motion fails.
10:37:06 And if another motion is not made, the public hearing
10:37:08 shall be reopened and continued to a date and time
10:37:11 certain when the full City Council may be present.
10:37:14 That day is today.
10:37:16 And under council's rules then, there is presently no
10:37:19 motion on the floor.
10:37:22 And again you are here with a continuation of a first
10:37:25 public hearing.
10:37:27 Council's policy with first public hearings, or any
10:37:31 public hearing, is during the course of a public
10:37:32 hearing, when it is continued, somebody who has
10:37:35 previously testified, a member of the public, has
10:37:39 already testified, they don't have another opportunity
10:37:41 to do so except if it moves forward to a second
10:37:46 Other than the petitioner, of course.
10:37:48 The petitioner does have the right to address any
10:37:51 additional concerns.
10:37:54 And again any member of the public who did speak
10:37:58 previously, the only thing they could talk about are
10:38:00 matters that are limited to the subject of the
10:38:02 There really is no subject of the continuance other
10:38:05 than the fact you had a council member missing.
10:38:06 So other than that, my recommendation would be if the
10:38:11 petitioner wishes to make any opening comments to do
10:38:14 so, then --
10:38:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, before we do that, let me just
10:38:23 state for the record after discussing with the attorney
10:38:27 on yesterday, evidently there was an article in the
10:38:32 creating loafing, I think it is --
10:38:35 >> TBO.
10:38:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Whatever it is, that takes my comments
10:38:39 that I made at the last public hearing and talks about
10:38:43 in that I met with the community.
10:38:45 That is not accurate.
10:38:47 I have met with no community persons on this issue.
10:38:51 I have not met with anyone on this issue.
10:38:53 And that public hearing, my statement was referenced to
10:38:55 the statement that there was no police incidents.
10:38:58 And what I was referring to were many times police
10:39:01 incidents do not get reported, that in the past I met
10:39:05 with people that have stated that they did not report
10:39:10 the incident and so forth.
10:39:11 So I want to be clear for the record.
10:39:13 So to satisfy the record and the attorney, I had in a
10:39:16 meeting with anyone in the community on the issue.
10:39:19 So the paper evidently was quoting took it out of
10:39:22 context for the meeting, the last meeting we had this
10:39:24 issue brought up.
10:39:27 >> Joe Redner.
10:39:30 And 3924 West Spruce Street.
10:39:34 >> I'm Joseph Redner, 1310 Alicia Avenue, Tampa,
10:39:41 >> I own the property.
10:39:42 Joe is the owner of the brewery.
10:39:44 We passed these out last time to everybody that was
10:39:47 here, except for councilman Miranda.
10:39:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think he has one.
10:39:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I read the one that's behind me P.I
10:39:59 don't want to have two of them.
10:40:14 >> So we can see what we are talking about here.
10:40:16 There's kind of a misconception that we are intruding
10:40:23 in a neighborhood.
10:40:31 This is the property in question.
10:40:35 The pink is where Cigar City brewery is.
10:40:40 This is offices next to that is a warehouse.
10:40:42 Next to that is a gym.
10:40:44 Next to that is the lighting company.
10:40:48 Across the street, over here, is the City of Tampa
10:40:58 where they do, this shows Spruce street here.
10:41:09 This is the property in question.
10:41:12 This is a post office.
10:41:14 This is old Sears building.
10:41:17 Again across the street over here is where they collect
10:41:24 the garbage, City of Tampa.
10:41:26 And this is a little larger picture.
10:41:28 Again, this is the area of the property in question.
10:41:33 This is Spruce.
10:41:34 This is Lincoln Gardens.
10:41:35 You can't see Carver City.
10:41:37 Maybe a little of it over here.
10:41:41 This is target.
10:41:42 This is Home Depot.
10:41:43 This is Dale Mabry.
10:41:45 This whole section is zoned commercial intensive.
10:41:56 Commercial intensive in the code is the district that
10:42:01 provides areas for intense commercial activity
10:42:04 permitting heavy commercial and service uses.
10:42:08 It's been like this for 30 or 40 years.
10:42:11 50 years this has been commercial property.
10:42:19 What we are asking for is a 2(COP) to operate Sunday
10:42:25 through Thursday from 9 to 10.
10:42:28 We want to close at 10:00 at night through Thursday.
10:42:34 On Friday and Saturday from 9 to 12 midnight.
10:42:38 We put those conditions on ourselves.
10:42:45 Cigar City is active in the community.
10:43:03 And with Make-A-Wish Foundation, whole planet
10:43:11 foundation, big brothers, big sisters, donate to school
10:43:14 auctions, grain partnership, neighborhood national
10:43:18 night out, United Way, and Easter seals.
10:43:22 We also sell beer to Bonefish grill, Circle K, World of
10:43:29 Beer, whole foods, total wine and more, ABC liquors,
10:43:34 Publix just came on, and Sweetbay just came on.
10:43:37 So it's a brewery with an impact in Tampa.
10:43:43 Very big impact.
10:43:46 You know the evidence that you the city must use to
10:43:49 base your reason to deny the zoning on is that it must
10:43:51 be competent, substantial evidence.
10:43:56 A court reviewing your decision to deny this zoning
10:43:59 will look to see if you had competent substantial
10:44:02 evidence to base your decision on.
10:44:04 You know that.
10:44:06 Your attorneys have told you that over and over again.
10:44:09 In fact, the other day your attorney even told you
10:44:12 there was a right to limited cross-examination for the
10:44:16 applicant, much to your chagrin.
10:44:20 I don't know why.
10:44:21 It just ferrets out the truth.
10:44:23 It's the law.
10:44:24 You know why it's the law.
10:44:25 It makes things fair.
10:44:27 And we all want to be fair, don't we?
10:44:30 In other words, if you deny this zoning because you
10:44:32 believe it will cause crime in the neighborhood,
10:44:36 whatever it is that you rely on to make that decision,
10:44:38 that the zoning causes crime.
10:44:41 To show crime you must have testimony from a witness,
10:44:44 too, or a victim of a crime connected to the business
10:44:46 at issue in this zoning, proof that we cause crime.
10:44:51 We have all the proof that we don't cause crime.
10:44:54 Two years of operating without an incident and without
10:44:57 a complaint according to your own police department.
10:45:08 I am going to read you from the police report.
10:45:17 An on-site inspection from the listed property was made
10:45:20 by this officer.
10:45:21 There is no reason to deny this request.
10:45:22 I ran a police calls for service for the last year.
10:45:25 He analyze those calls for service that they brought
10:45:30 That the neighborhood brought you.
10:45:31 He analyzed it.
10:45:33 I found noon calls related to complaints from the
10:45:36 There were no reports for any alcohol violations.
10:45:40 No incidents in two years.
10:45:42 That's unheard of.
10:45:46 For a place of assembly of this sort.
10:45:48 And if the neighborhood came to us with specific
10:45:50 complaints we would fix whatever it was.
10:45:59 Two years of operating without an incident, without a
10:46:02 complaint according to your own place police
10:46:04 The police department evaluated the crime statistics
10:46:06 and found that none were attributable to cigar industry
10:46:10 The neighborhood folks have been very vocal and
10:46:12 persistent in their opposition to this zoning.
10:46:14 They have been to most of the hearings to voice their
10:46:18 But I have not presented one piece of credible evidence
10:46:22 that substantiates their opinion that we cause crime in
10:46:26 the neighborhood.
10:46:26 In fact, they haven't provided any evidence at all.
10:46:30 Don't you think if they had any, they would tell you
10:46:32 about it?
10:46:33 They even hired a lawyer who couldn't come up with
10:46:36 competent substantial evidence.
10:46:37 Our evidence is indisputable.
10:46:40 We have two years of operate operation without an
10:46:42 incident or a complaint.
10:46:44 According to your own police department.
10:46:47 Frankly at the prior hearings the opinions to deny were
10:46:49 not based on evidence.
10:46:51 Which makes me question the motives.
10:46:54 You can't use evidence that you admit isn't there, like
10:46:57 Scott did in the last hearing when he said because
10:46:59 there is no evidence of crime doesn't mean there isn't
10:47:02 He just imagined some up.
10:47:05 And based his vote to deny this zoning based on that
10:47:09 made-up evidence.
10:47:11 That's not fair.
10:47:14 You can't make up evidence and use it against someone's
10:47:17 property rights.
10:47:18 So again I have to question the motive.
10:47:21 I would recommend you approve this zoning before you
10:47:24 send a message that we are a business-friendly city.
10:47:28 How do I deal with these vague allegations that the
10:47:32 Carver City neighborhood association wrote to the City
10:47:35 They said -- this is what they wrote -- since the
10:47:38 conditional one-year lease has been in place we have
10:47:40 found that the increase in traffic and crime based on
10:47:44 neighborhood observation.
10:47:46 What did they observe?
10:47:49 Of the activity at the establishment?
10:47:54 They wrote, this leads to the logical conclusion that
10:47:56 the sale of alcoholic beverages is the primary function
10:47:59 of the business establishment operated or to be
10:48:02 operated, that conditional waiver of the distance
10:48:05 separation requirements found in the City of Tampa code
10:48:09 has caused the area to resemble a commercial area
10:48:13 It is a commercial area.
10:48:14 It's been commercial for 40, 50 years.
10:48:18 Rather than a residential area.
10:48:21 They say the use of my property causes some kind of
10:48:24 How do I defend myself and my property when they
10:48:27 haven't told us what those crimes are?
10:48:30 I demand they tell me what crimes they observed.
10:48:34 I take this personally.
10:48:35 I demand you know what those crimes are.
10:48:39 And I also demand the public know what those crimes
10:48:42 I demand the civic association and their lawyer tell
10:48:45 you and I what those crimes are they observed.
10:48:50 What if someone was accusing you of misusing your
10:48:53 You would want to know what they were talking about,
10:48:55 wouldn't you?
10:48:56 You can't use that kind of evidence against the
10:49:00 You need competent substantial evidence, and your
10:49:03 lawyer has told you that.
10:49:04 You need to listen to them.
10:49:05 And if you go against your attorney's advice, and your
10:49:08 police department's advice, and every other city
10:49:11 department's advice, I have to again question your
10:49:16 Every wet zoning in the City of Tampa has to get a
10:49:19 special exception.
10:49:20 You made it that way.
10:49:21 And most wet zonings border on residential districts in
10:49:25 Tampa except in Ybor City and downtown.
10:49:27 At least we are across the street.
10:49:30 This property has been commercial intensive for the
10:49:33 equivalent for 30 or 40 years.
10:49:37 Commercial intensive is exactly where the city wants
10:49:39 you to put a bar.
10:49:42 It is the preferred designation for this type of
10:49:46 But this is much less intrusive than a normal bar.
10:49:51 It is a tasting room attached to a normal brewery, and
10:49:54 the tasting room is an integral part of the marketing
10:49:56 of the brewery.
10:49:58 You have to understand the brewery and tasting room are
10:50:01 a bona fide tourist attraction.
10:50:04 That's what they have become.
10:50:06 Cigar City brewing is going to be an asset total City
10:50:09 of Tampa on the level of the Columbia restaurant and
10:50:12 Bern's steakhouse.
10:50:13 That's a fact.
10:50:14 It's going to happen.
10:50:16 Also, a concern is that the brewery leaves, the bar
10:50:19 will still be there, a legitimate concern.
10:50:22 We are willing to condition this zoning on the brewery,
10:50:25 and when the brewery leaves so does the tasting room.
10:50:28 I don't want a bar there if the brewery goes.
10:50:30 Traffic is not a legitimate concern because there are
10:50:33 so many uses that can be put there without approval
10:50:37 that would generate more tasting, more traffic than the
10:50:41 tasting room.
10:50:50 A funeral parlor, a hospital and associated uses, a
10:50:54 hotel or a motel, a school, an airport, a bank.
10:51:03 Bank is the largest generate oar of traffic there is.
10:51:06 There is no more.
10:51:08 And we can put one there without coming to the City
10:51:11 A dry cleaning plant.
10:51:14 A kennel.
10:51:16 A light manufacturing.
10:51:21 I remember a long time ago when we were having a zoning
10:51:27 hearing before the City Council someone opposed to the
10:51:29 zoning use statistics to show there were no home sales
10:51:33 in Lincoln Gardens and said that was because no one
10:51:36 wanted to buy the homes.
10:51:37 Sounded good.
10:51:40 I knew there was something wrong with that position but
10:51:42 I couldn't figure it out in time to tell you why.
10:51:45 Later, I went for a drive in Lincoln Gardens
10:51:48 neighborhood and it hit me, the reason there were no
10:51:50 sales is because there weren't any houses for sale.
10:51:53 No one wanted to sell or leave.
10:51:54 So they used the statistics the opposite way they
10:51:58 should have been used.
10:52:04 I guess that's about it.
10:52:05 >> Joe: I would like to add, I run the business in
10:52:15 question and I'm a member of my River Bend neighborhood
10:52:18 association and I'm very active in it.
10:52:20 And I think that the City Council is at its best when
10:52:24 it's balancing the needs of citizens and neighborhoods
10:52:27 with the needs of business, and I think what a business
10:52:31 should do is prove that they can be a good neighbor
10:52:33 before they should be trusted, and I think we have done
10:52:37 that for two years, and we have done it to the best of
10:52:39 our ability, and nobody officially, if there are crimes
10:52:43 going on that aren't being reported, what I would say
10:52:45 is who is being a bad neighbor?
10:52:47 If I see a crime I'm reporting it.
10:52:50 So we have done the best we can to be a good neighbor.
10:52:52 And I think on that record of two years of operating
10:52:54 the business without incident we should get the wet
10:52:57 zoning because we proved that we can be a responsible
10:52:59 business owner.
10:53:00 >> Thank you very much.
10:53:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do you have questions, councilman
10:53:11 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Yes.
10:53:12 Mr. Redner, you put up a map there to show us the
10:53:15 commercial intensive area.
10:53:17 I think it was the last map that had you put up.
10:53:26 Is there anyone else selling alcohol in that commercial
10:53:29 intensive area?
10:53:31 >> Carrabas, total wine, whole foods.
10:53:34 >> Who is that?
10:53:35 >> Three at least.
10:53:37 Four, because there's a gas station on the corner that
10:53:39 also sells beer.
10:53:40 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: They are in that?
10:53:43 >> In this block from Dale Mabry --
10:53:47 >> Yes, there's alcohol sold here.
10:53:49 >> Where is total wine located?
10:53:52 >> Total wine is right there.
10:53:54 And then there's a gas station here that sells alcohol.
10:53:57 And there's the whole food sales alcohol and target
10:54:01 sales alcohol and the restaurant up here on the corner
10:54:04 sells alcohol.
10:54:06 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Thank you.
10:54:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?
10:54:09 >> All of these places that sell alcohol are just as
10:54:12 close to their neighbors here.
10:54:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do you have a question?
10:54:31 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Maybe this question is for Ms. Feeley.
10:54:36 Mr. Redner mention add condition of zoning.
10:54:39 When the brewery and tasting bar leave, they would be
10:54:43 agreeable to that.
10:54:45 Is that possible?
10:54:50 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land development.
10:54:51 The way that the special use is written and the request
10:54:54 for the 2(COP), it is conditioned that it is in section
10:54:58 with microbrewery.
10:54:59 >> And I am going to ask a couple more.
10:55:07 The hours of operation, is that on the -- would that be
10:55:12 on the site plan?
10:55:16 >> Yes.
10:55:19 I think there was some confusion as to what those were
10:55:22 at the last hearing, and Mr. Redner has provided me
10:55:24 with an updated site plan and we do have that, and
10:55:27 those hours as were stated on the record.
10:55:30 Sunday you this Thursday, 9 a.m. to 10 p.m., and Friday
10:55:36 and Saturday 9 a.m. to midnight.
10:55:38 >> I have a question for Mr. Redner.
10:55:46 Being that you are agreeing to conditions on your site
10:55:53 plan -- and I'm not sure that you are aware that we
10:55:58 have a workshop in January which pertains to alcoholic
10:56:02 beverage, a special use permitting.
10:56:05 And briefly, code enforcement has been stated here that
10:56:11 it is complaint-driven, and therefore I would like to
10:56:14 know if you would be in favor as a business owner --
10:56:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm going to -- are you going to ask
10:56:24 him a question outside the realm of what you are
10:56:27 deciding today?
10:56:28 The item that you have right in front of you?
10:56:31 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Uh-huh.
10:56:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Then my suggestion would be that it
10:56:34 would be inappropriate to ask him because it is not
10:56:36 relevant to this hearing.
10:56:38 >>YVONNE CAPIN: All right.
10:56:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Although you do raise a question as
10:56:40 to the enforcement of the hours of operation.
10:56:43 And perhaps if you wish to have Tampa's representative
10:56:47 address that, you are welcome to do that.
10:56:50 But you don't have to if that's not your desire.
10:56:54 >>YVONNE CAPIN: No.
10:56:54 >> Joe Redner: Is the public -- I'm sorry.
10:57:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry, but if you have any other
10:57:07 The question that I think you were about to ask would
10:57:09 not be relevant to this hearing.
10:57:12 It would be my recommendation to not ask that.
10:57:16 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
10:57:17 >>> Is the public hearing still open?
10:57:19 Could I read?
10:57:20 >> No, sir.
10:57:20 I think not right now.
10:57:22 You will have a chance on rebuttal.
10:57:24 Councilwoman Miller.
10:57:25 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a question for officer Miller.
10:57:27 >> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police department.
10:57:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Redner stated his hours will be
10:57:37 Sunday from 9 a.m. to 10 p.m.
10:57:39 What hours does he start selling alcoholic beverages?
10:57:42 >> On Sunday?
10:57:43 They changed it to 11.
10:57:47 >> So open at 9, going to be --
10:57:51 >> They have to a bid by the law, be 11:00.
10:57:54 >> Just what was on the original application.
10:57:59 >> We don't open till 11.
10:58:07 9 was put on the original application.
10:58:09 >>GWEN MILLER: You stated 9.
10:58:11 >> We wanted to open at 9:
10:58:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Did you say you have it written on your
10:58:18 >> It's on the plans -- we have never opened -- we
10:58:20 never opened at 9.
10:58:23 Our hours have always been 11 on.
10:58:25 >>GWEN MILLER: But we can't do -- a.
10:58:27 >> If the law says you can't sell beer till 11 --
10:58:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Well, you are making a statement you
10:58:33 are going to open at 9.
10:58:35 >> Are you suggesting we would purposely sell alcohol
10:58:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Why would you open at 9 then?
10:58:43 >> We are not open at 9.
10:58:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right, thank you.
10:58:47 Thank you.
10:58:48 Officer Miller, do you have anything you want to add to
10:58:50 the record?
10:58:54 Mr. Redner, you can be seated now.
10:58:57 Any other question from council?
10:59:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, just a reminder for the
10:59:03 I know I asked City Council to do this prior to the
10:59:05 10:00 30 hearings.
10:59:07 And I noticed that you did so with regard to what was
10:59:09 perceived in the newspaper article.
10:59:11 But with regard to any ex parte communications, that
10:59:15 you may have had, I ask that if you have had any
10:59:18 ex parte communications, relative to today's hearing,
10:59:22 that you, prior to taking action, divulge the substance
10:59:28 of that communication and with whom it occurred.
10:59:30 Thank you.
10:59:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, thank you.
10:59:32 >>> Is it too late to add something?
10:59:36 >> You will have opportunity to come back.
10:59:37 You will have rebuttal.
10:59:39 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, I received a call
10:59:45 on 12-1 at 8:22 in the morning from Paul J. Teppin who
10:59:52 says he supports this petition.
10:59:54 And he's a competitor, does not distribute their beer.
11:00:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:00:05 We will hear from the public, those who have not spoken
11:00:07 may come forward at this time, state your name and
11:00:10 address for the record.
11:00:11 All right.
11:00:20 >> Ed Tillou, and I live up around USF, a student
11:00:26 there, studied chemical engineering so I call this my
11:00:29 beer research, because actually a lot of chemical
11:00:32 engineers do work in the brewing industry.
11:00:34 And I visited there six or eight times, actually about
11:00:40 eight or ten.
11:00:41 I have to use the bus because I lost my cars while I
11:00:47 was sick and therefore can only testify to what happens
11:00:50 during bus use hours.
11:00:51 And maybe when the buses stop running all hell breaks
11:00:55 looks there but I don't really think so.
11:00:57 I belong to Tampa Bay beers, beer enthusiasts, and I am
11:01:03 not here as a representative of theirs.
11:01:05 Their meeting will be this Tuesday.
11:01:07 They probably would have sent people, but they weren't
11:01:11 up on it.
11:01:11 I think a lot has accrued to this and I think the
11:01:18 testament is what Joey Redner's sister said that was
11:01:21 repeat add round the bar.
11:01:22 She said she's no longer viewed as Joe Redner's
11:01:25 daughter but Joey Redner's sister.
11:01:29 So this is getting a lot of play.
11:01:33 I like their beers.
11:01:34 I like them once or twice after the third or fourth
11:01:37 time I move on.
11:01:38 And going to a lot of -- I have been going to a lot of
11:01:43 But they are good the first, second, third time.
11:01:46 So they are in competition with Shriner Baches, Genuine
11:01:53 Belgian's, Bell's Brewing, they have made a national
11:01:57 Now, taking the bus, I got off the bus one time, and
11:02:01 they were these huge kids, I mean, like teenagers,
11:02:04 about 6'3", 6'4", and I think they lived in that
11:02:10 Now, that neighborhood, I read a little about it, and
11:02:14 it goes back to the Korean war.
11:02:16 And what I see unfolding, so it's mostly grandparents
11:02:21 that live with a certain paranoia because they are
11:02:26 elderly people.
11:02:28 It's free flowing paranoia.
11:02:30 And what happened is I was raised on eastern Long
11:02:33 Island which as an appendage of New England we always
11:02:39 study a lot of the history.
11:02:40 And where he the puritans were persecuted in New
11:02:45 England, came to the United States the first item on
11:02:47 their agenda was to persecute everyone else.
11:02:50 And I think that's a lot what Lincoln Gardens is doing
11:02:52 because Korean war veterans, they couldn't find places
11:02:57 elsewhere, and now that they have been there and
11:03:00 established, they are seemingly doing the same thing to
11:03:03 other people.
11:03:06 Now, what goes with this is these very large kids, they
11:03:10 weren't a problem.
11:03:12 They were a little intimidating, but they were probably
11:03:15 grandchildren being raised by grandparents from that
11:03:17 neighborhood, and maybe this is who was throwing the
11:03:20 rocks at the woman's house, because no one knows who
11:03:24 did this.
11:03:25 But the proper place of the neighborhood association
11:03:28 here would be to be finding recreational opportunities
11:03:33 for these kids.
11:03:35 They did seem bored.
11:03:37 They weren't intimidating but they did seem bored.
11:03:40 And they would be kids about 15 or 16.
11:03:44 They weren't going there.
11:03:46 And it's a well-behaved place.
11:03:52 (Bell sounds).
11:03:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
11:03:54 Your time is up.
11:03:55 Next speaker.
11:03:58 Again, those who did not speak, at the last hearing,
11:04:03 are allowed to speak today.
11:04:04 >> Good morning.
11:04:07 My name is Dr. Murray -- president of Carver City
11:04:11 Lincoln Gardens association and resident of Lincoln
11:04:16 I just want to say thank you for the opportunity to be
11:04:18 able to speak again and to say thank you to the council
11:04:21 members that have shown their support by holding to the
11:04:24 code you have written without waiver or compromise.
11:04:29 But today is a day of questions, and maybe some answers
11:04:32 that will hopefully put this issue to rest without
11:04:36 waiver or compromise.
11:04:38 Let me answer the council's question from the last
11:04:42 hearing of where are the residents?
11:04:47 The residents of Carver City and Lincoln Gardens have
11:04:51 been here since 2008.
11:04:52 In 2008, we were told to go back, bring a bigger crowd.
11:04:58 But since you want compromise, we will compromise for
11:05:04 Now come back the next year because you don't have
11:05:06 enough for us to stand by the code and restrictions
11:05:09 that we have worked so hard to develop for the
11:05:12 protection of residents, institutions, and, yes, other
11:05:16 establishments that sell alcohol.
11:05:20 So go back, because you need complaints of criminal
11:05:25 So again we returned in 2009 with a room full of
11:05:28 people, a petition of 340 residents, and family
11:05:33 members, a three-inch thick history of complaints of
11:05:37 criminal activity of all establishments that serve or
11:05:41 sell alcohol in the area, and again we were told that
11:05:45 is enough, we will compromise for you.
11:05:52 We have to go hither and yonder to find the answers we
11:05:55 seek but today, December 2nd, 2010, our response is
11:05:58 still the same, and we don't need you to compromise for
11:06:02 us, but to stand by the code you have written because
11:06:06 without the waivers, there is no compromise.
11:06:10 Carver City Lincoln Gardens association objects to the
11:06:13 wet zone ago approval for case Z-10369, Specialty Malls
11:06:21 of Tampa Bay, Inc., and to waiving the 1,000-foot
11:06:24 restrictions for residential property, instructional
11:06:29 institutional use, and wet zoned properties, which Mr.
11:06:33 Redner has amply shown to you, which are in the
11:06:37 vicinity on his map.
11:06:39 But waiving all the restrictions under this code with
11:06:42 the objections of any parties, it is supposed to
11:06:45 protect pose a very serious question for all.
11:06:51 Why was the code written in the first place?
11:06:55 Over the past few weeks, I have been bombarded with
11:06:57 questions for the news media about Cigar City brewery
11:07:03 and it made me think, why am I getting questioned about
11:07:05 Cigar City when Specialty Mall is applying for the
11:07:12 So now I have questions for you.
11:07:16 Why do residents and neighborhood associations have to
11:07:18 go through the process of justifying why you Schuh not
11:07:23 waive a code that was written to protect us?
11:07:28 Should the applicant justify why you should waive the
11:07:34 Two, who is the real applicant for Specialty Malls of
11:07:37 Tampa with the name Joey Redner?
11:07:40 (Bell sounds).
11:07:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
11:07:45 >> My name is attorney Miriam Sumpter Richard. My
11:07:50 office is at 505 East Jackson Street, suite 303, Tampa,
11:07:55 Florida 33602 and I represent Carver City Lincoln
11:08:00 Gardens Civic Association, Inc., and support -- advance
11:08:06 their position in opposition to the approval of this
11:08:09 particular zoning request, case V-10-369.
11:08:17 Additional questions and additional information I
11:08:19 submitted on the 30th states on the application
11:08:24 that was submitted by Specialty Malls and cigar
11:08:29 industry brewery to the department of alcohol and
11:08:33 One of the key requirements of the statute when they
11:08:38 are applying for approval of the 2(COP) license is
11:08:43 whether or not that particular applicant can qualified
11:08:48 and whether or not the applicant that receives the
11:08:51 2(COP) license has any criminal convictions that will
11:08:55 prevent it, and additional questions came to mind.
11:09:02 Some are, is Joe Redner Specialty Malls of Tampa have a
11:09:07 felony conviction and therefore may not have been able
11:09:09 to obtain full liquor license?
11:09:14 Is that why the liquor license is placed with Cigar
11:09:17 City brewery LLC?
11:09:21 And who is Joseph J. Michael Redner of Cigar City
11:09:26 brewery LLC?
11:09:28 I understand that he is the adopted son of Joe Redner.
11:09:32 But in my investigation, there were various -- and
11:09:38 presented to council -- names of Joe Redner, Joseph
11:09:42 Redner, Joseph J. Michael Redner, and so forth, as I
11:09:48 put in the actual article.
11:09:49 One of the requirements was the department of alcohol
11:09:53 and tobacco, and I placed a statute also in the record.
11:10:00 If this 2(COP) license is granted to an individual,
11:10:03 then under Florida statute 561 .29-1-A and 561-17 (1)
11:10:15 was the license obtained from the division of alcohol
11:10:18 beverage and tobacco?
11:10:20 And whoever submitted this sworn application, did that
11:10:24 person do it with a direct -- indirect financial
11:10:28 interest in the license who will be engaged in the
11:10:32 business of manufacturing, bottling, distributing,
11:10:36 selling, in any other way dealing in alcoholic
11:10:40 If you reflect that on the statements that were made
11:10:42 today, by Mr. Redner, Sr., and his son, it was
11:10:50 impossible to tell, sitting in the back, who was
11:10:53 actually advancing this petition.
11:10:56 Some of the comments that were made was that where you
11:11:06 want a bar that's commercially permissive?
11:11:11 I think that came from Joseph Redner, Sr., that this is
11:11:14 really a bar that they were going to operate.
11:11:17 One of the additional informations --
11:11:21 (Bell sounds).
11:11:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, next speaker.
11:11:26 >> Good morning.
11:11:29 I rise in support of Joey Redner and Cigar City.
11:11:34 My name is Dr. Rudy Lydell, 2630 she shelrico lane in
11:11:44 Valrico, Florida, and I consider myself a regular
11:11:46 customer of Cigar City.
11:11:47 Like Joey Redner I am a business owner, I am a dentist
11:11:51 out in the Brandon area, I have 22 employees.
11:11:58 I just finished serving the west coast dental
11:12:00 association as its president.
11:12:02 I'm currently on the Board of Trustees of the Florida
11:12:05 Dental association.
11:12:06 I'm a Rotary member.
11:12:07 I'm also a member of St. Andrews Methodist church.
11:12:10 I say that.
11:12:11 There's a misconception, I think, out there that this
11:12:15 is a typical bar that you may see up around USF.
11:12:20 It's everything but.
11:12:22 A tasting room is for those of us who enjoy well-made
11:12:26 craft beer.
11:12:27 When I say well-made, I agree with Joe Redner that
11:12:31 Cigar City is making a national name for itself, and
11:12:33 it's probably regarded as one of the top ten
11:12:36 microbreweries in the country at this time.
11:12:38 I have sat in the bar and actually talked to people
11:12:41 from out of state who have made this particular tasting
11:12:46 room a destination.
11:12:48 I have seen people extend their stays in Tampa to enjoy
11:12:54 a particular event.
11:12:55 It was called Fruit in the Room.
11:13:00 I interact with people when I sit there and I have a
11:13:03 pint or two of some of their beer.
11:13:06 It's not a rowdy crowd.
11:13:08 It's a professional crowd like myself.
11:13:10 I have never witnessed myself anybody who has, in my
11:13:14 opinion, overimbibed.
11:13:17 People come there for the quality of the beer.
11:13:19 You won't find, you know, five dollar buckets of
11:13:23 Budweiser there.
11:13:24 It just doesn't happen there.
11:13:25 You have people that appreciate beer for the taste of
11:13:28 They are aficionados, if you will.
11:13:31 Another thing I was thinking about, too.
11:13:33 If you discount the number of people in the county and
11:13:37 the city, employed by state, local or federal
11:13:40 governments and big corporations, if each member of the
11:13:45 City Council made a list of 100 people, an all those
11:13:49 names were -- didn't overlap in any certain way, if
11:13:55 just 3%, three people out of a hundred had the
11:13:59 entrepreneurial spirit of a Joe Redner, that employed
11:14:02 207 employees, the unemployment rate in Hillsborough
11:14:05 County would be zero.
11:14:08 I think instead of trying to limit his business, we
11:14:11 ought to have a forum to talk to him and other small
11:14:14 business owners to find out what are the obstacles to
11:14:19 Thank you very much.
11:14:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
11:14:21 Next speaker.
11:14:22 >>> Ken Getty.
11:14:27 I'm at 14450 river circle, apartment 708, Tampa,
11:14:34 Florida 333613.
11:14:36 I'm a six and a half year resident of Tampa.
11:14:39 And I am also an MBA student at the University of South
11:14:43 I need to preface this that I have never met Mr. Redner
11:14:46 or Mr. Redner.
11:14:48 Part of the MBA program is there is a program in your
11:14:55 final two semesters to work with an existing business
11:14:57 in Tampa and really work with the employees, learn that
11:15:00 business, learn the industry, and really see what it
11:15:05 This semester, we had the chance to work with Cigar
11:15:09 City brewery and really get a feel for their operation
11:15:13 as long with the beer industry as a whole.
11:15:16 Our findings were pretty startling.
11:15:18 Even my professor was in disbelief when we presented
11:15:22 them to Cigar City.
11:15:25 Craft brewery in Florida is no easy feat.
11:15:27 You basically have the deck stacked against you.
11:15:30 The fourth highest taxes in the nation are in Florida
11:15:33 when it comes to beer.
11:15:34 On top of that you have the lopsided economy of scale
11:15:39 due to national breweries.
11:15:41 But all those things, the fact that they still possess
11:15:46 250% growth rate this year, only brewing a thousand
11:15:50 barrels of beer, and 4,000 this year, that wasn't the
11:15:53 startling fact that my professor couldn't believe.
11:15:56 Every week that we visited the tasting room, it was the
11:16:01 professional crowd that was in there, and also the
11:16:07 people from out of state, I think every time we were in
11:16:12 there there was at least an individual that drove two
11:16:14 hours to sit in that tasting room to see the brewery
11:16:18 operation and enjoy a couple of beers and take some
11:16:24 home with them.
11:16:25 Earlier today the City Council touched on small
11:16:31 Talking about the terrible economic situation it faced,
11:16:33 and it's necessary for local government to step in.
11:16:36 It's funny that this comes up right after it, and the
11:16:40 City Council is thinking of hobbling this brewery
11:16:47 I can testify that this business is truly Joey Redner's
11:16:51 I know there is kind of a statement made that this is a
11:16:54 shadow operation for Joe Redner.
11:16:56 And all of our findings, it was Joey Redner's name that
11:17:00 came to the top, that he is the integral force of this
11:17:02 brewery, and truly it is his operation.
11:17:08 On top of that, the biggest finding is really Cigar
11:17:10 City brewery is an ambassador for hmmm.
11:17:14 Not only do they encourage tourism.
11:17:16 People come in, stay longer, but they also incorporate
11:17:18 their rich cultural history of Tampa and the brands
11:17:22 they produce and distribute across the nation.
11:17:25 Thank you.
11:17:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
11:17:28 >> Natalie king with Pepin distributing company Tampa,
11:17:35 north 50th street.
11:17:36 As you know, Tom Pepin and Jay Pepin both expressed
11:17:41 their opinion in support and they asked me to come
11:17:43 This is more an economic development issue.
11:17:46 We have been here six the 60s and we are a
11:17:50 We have in a personal stake.
11:17:53 If anything, they are taking market share from us.
11:17:56 But we recognize what a great community partner we are.
11:17:58 We are proud to partner with them on many community and
11:18:00 charitable and philanthropic activities as well as the
11:18:04 fact they have taken in the last two years under their
11:18:07 temporary provision an organization from two employees
11:18:10 to 22.
11:18:11 That in the development of jobs is unheard of in this
11:18:14 Please do not take away that opportunity for our
11:18:16 And please do not hobble their ability to not only be
11:18:19 an ambassador for our community, but as well set the
11:18:22 stage for new businesses to come into our community.
11:18:25 Thank you.
11:18:30 >> Steve Williams.
11:18:32 I reside 8003 north 12th Street just north of the
11:18:36 Hillsborough River.
11:18:37 I'm speaking today on behalf of the house mates for
11:18:42 We all stand at the port of allowing Cigar City to
11:18:46 retain its tasting room.
11:18:49 Many of my friends tell me things about Cigar City.
11:18:54 It's internationally known, been told that a friend of
11:19:00 mine paid $30 in Belgium for a bottle of Cigar City
11:19:05 That's remarkable.
11:19:06 It's an internationally known brewery.
11:19:08 And in a time when unemployment is high and Tampa's
11:19:13 economy is more largely a service-based economy rather
11:19:16 than a manufacturing economy, I think that encouraging
11:19:20 small businesses like Cigar City like so many other
11:19:23 microbreweries in Tampa is the best course of action.
11:19:28 That is all.
11:19:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
11:19:29 Next speaker.
11:19:30 >> Tim Heberlein, 1259 national drive.
11:19:39 I would like to ask that you do approve the permit for
11:19:41 the Cigar City brewing company.
11:19:46 I come to you as a craft beer have you enthusiast but
11:19:49 also as the vice-president for the Hillsborough County
11:19:52 young Democrats and your drinking liberally, which a
11:19:57 group that gets together, enjoys a few Cigar City brews
11:20:02 and talks about politics and sometimes you guys, too.
11:20:04 But I also work, play and spend money in the City of
11:20:08 And I can tell you this is an incredible product that
11:20:12 Tampa has -- that Joe Redner has produced something
11:20:15 that is nationally known and I have a copy of this
11:20:19 edition of draft magazine which circulates 240,000
11:20:23 copies national nationwide.
11:20:24 In it is the top 25 beers, and Cigar City makes that
11:20:30 And not only once but it mentions it twice in there.
11:20:33 A nice little Christmas recipe for that beer.
11:20:36 So to let you know that people nationwide are paying
11:20:38 attention to this product and to this company.
11:20:41 I also got married a couple of months ago, and I
11:20:44 actually bought a keg of Cigar City beer for my wedding
11:20:49 reception because I just appreciated it so much and I
11:20:51 understand it's a great product and I really appreciate
11:20:55 them being as creative as they are.
11:20:57 And the last two years going from 2 to 22 employees is
11:21:00 an incredible kind of economic benefit this company has
11:21:05 to the City of Tampa.
11:21:06 This is something that is nationally known.
11:21:09 So I personally don't see how this particular tasting
11:21:16 room can affect -- affects traffic, and the crime area,
11:21:22 again I am not a police officer, not Department of
11:21:24 Transportation, I'm not privy to that information.
11:21:27 But from my experience this has been an incredibly
11:21:30 positive one.
11:21:32 I have traveled around the world tasting other beers in
11:21:36 their tasting rooms, and had a beer from those, and I
11:21:39 can tell you that this does generate revenue for the
11:21:41 City of Tampa.
11:21:43 And I know there's been a lot of public support for it.
11:21:45 I'm not sure if it's being presented but I know there
11:21:48 is a petition going online with over 800 signatures
11:21:51 from people not just in this city but around the state
11:21:54 and around the country.
11:21:55 And so I please ask that you approve the 2(COP) for the
11:21:59 Cigar City brewing company.
11:22:00 Thank you.
11:22:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
11:22:05 >>> My name is Bob Sylvester, I'm the president and
11:22:10 owner of St. Sell mer brewing in Tarpon Springs, so
11:22:17 technically a competitor here in support of Cigar City.
11:22:20 I see by the absence of Ms. Miller and Mr. Stokes at
11:22:24 the moment that their minds have been made up.
11:22:28 >> Say that very cautiously because that's not true.
11:22:33 I am going to tell you that's not true.
11:22:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There are televisions they are
11:22:37 watching in the back.
11:22:37 When we leave many times, we take breaks.
11:22:43 >> I apologize for that.
11:22:44 I didn't know.
11:22:45 But I can tell you from personal experience, the
11:22:48 industry that we are both in is one of the most highly
11:22:52 regulated and most overseen industries in the country.
11:22:57 I mean, we report to the TDT, ABT, they come out, they
11:23:04 visit, they take inventories, they want to know every
11:23:06 single thing that goes on every moment of the day.
11:23:11 Along with having a COP license, that adds another
11:23:15 layer of account accountability.
11:23:19 That they would have to answer to, and I think they
11:23:22 will answer to it well.
11:23:24 They have shown in the past two years that they have
11:23:28 been acting above-board, and also as few of the other
11:23:34 speakers have said, I would like to clear up a couple
11:23:36 of misconceptions about a tasting room.
11:23:39 The wine industry benefits from a more elevated
11:23:45 perception than the beer industry.
11:23:50 A lot of that has to do with the way beer has been
11:23:53 advertised over the period of the past 20 or 30 years.
11:23:57 Finally, that has turned around.
11:24:02 Brewers like myself and Cigar City have participated in
11:24:06 elevating craft beer to where it is now.
11:24:11 What we do is very difficult to get to the level we are
11:24:14 is very difficult.
11:24:15 To get to the level of Cigar City is near impossible.
11:24:19 They are really an asset to the community.
11:24:21 They do drive tourism.
11:24:23 We do have two tours coming through with people from
11:24:28 out of the city, out of the area and out of the country
11:24:30 in February through bon beer voyage beer tours, as well
11:24:36 as people from outside the country, people from Denmark
11:24:40 come to visit Cigar City.
11:24:44 A few communities in the country, Asheville, portland,
11:24:48 Oregon, Seattle, Washington, all benefit greatly from
11:24:52 the presence of higher-end craft breweries,
11:24:59 They have embraced them.
11:25:00 We are just asking that this community embrace Cigar
11:25:04 City for what they can bring to the community.
11:25:09 And that's it.
11:25:09 Thank you very much.
11:25:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
11:25:12 Next speaker.
11:25:12 >> Good morning, City Council members.
11:25:16 My name is Mable Smith, and I come down here, I have
11:25:22 read the paper last week, and I am opposed to what was
11:25:28 said in the Florida senator about the brewing area, and
11:25:33 Mr. Joe Redner showing the area, what's going on.
11:25:37 At Carver City, with no disrespect, what the
11:25:40 neighborhood needs to watch, we got young children
11:25:47 crossing the street with no guard, with no guard, and
11:25:51 we got African-American kids, young men running around,
11:25:55 with due respect to Dr. Harvey, who is over the Carver
11:25:59 City and Lincoln Gardens community, and it's not the
11:26:04 If it wasn't -- if somebody else was running it, would
11:26:09 there be so much said about it?
11:26:11 Would there be so much said about it if it was anybody
11:26:13 It brings jobs in the community.
11:26:15 What about the kids crossing the street, or the traffic
11:26:19 in the dark?
11:26:20 What about the young men standing on Hubert it?
11:26:24 We got a big art community recreation center.
11:26:28 No one is not going there.
11:26:29 And I talk to some of the neighbors who stay directly a
11:26:34 across from the brewery and they did not want to come
11:26:36 down but they don't see nothing wrong with Mr. Redner,
11:26:39 is bringing jobs in the neighborhood.
11:26:41 And you have got a big empty building right across the
11:26:44 street, and doing right, doing good.
11:26:48 Other businesses ought to give opportunities of jobs in
11:26:51 that community.
11:26:52 And I brought an article, brought the clipping out of
11:26:56 the paper.
11:26:56 I don't want this to be no black-white issue.
11:26:59 We are just doing what's right and what you all vote
11:27:02 just what's right.
11:27:03 And the comments was made in the Florida senator.
11:27:06 I brought it.
11:27:09 The vote went along the color line, with councilman
11:27:14 Scott and Stokes and Miller voting no.
11:27:17 Councilman who is running for reelection voted yes.
11:27:23 Councilman Charlie Miranda who was absent and did not
11:27:28 Dr. Harvey, president of Lincoln garden city, said they
11:27:36 already approved the brewery and didn't, and that's
11:27:39 where we have a problem.
11:27:40 He's already in business.
11:27:42 We are not trying to put him out of business.
11:27:46 The City Council -- the City Council has allowed him to
11:27:50 operate with no waivers.
11:27:52 Then it goes, the waivers allowing one thousand feet.
11:27:57 Dr. Harvey says -- Dr. Harvey said the face of the
11:28:03 council has changed now and the reality of their own
11:28:07 representative Miranda has to decide whether he will
11:28:12 We can go through the appeal process if we have to but
11:28:15 the political climate has changed, and further on
11:28:24 down -- I am not going to read it all.
11:28:25 And he goes, Councilwoman Gwen Miller says she tried to
11:28:29 convince her colleagues seeking a permanent wet zoning.
11:28:34 The residents that come before us we feel we ignored
11:28:42 We feel that we have ignored them.
11:28:44 We come to the public hearing but they don't come.
11:28:46 (Bell sounds).
11:28:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
11:28:48 Next speaker.
11:28:49 >> My name is Carl woodward.
11:28:54 I am owner and founder of the Saab store, 4025 west
11:28:59 Osborne, 33614.
11:29:02 We started here in Tampa in 1991.
11:29:05 Five of those years we were in Carver City so I know
11:29:08 the area well.
11:29:09 I am here in support of Cigar City.
11:29:13 I traveled a lot in the United States, and I hear
11:29:16 nothing but good things about this place.
11:29:18 I have talked to many people from Syracuse, New York to
11:29:22 Hawaii, that part of their travel destinations are
11:29:28 Cigar City brewing company so it is a huge tourist draw
11:29:31 for this area.
11:29:34 As far as traffic problems, I have been in and out of
11:29:36 this brewery for the last two years, many times, and
11:29:42 there's always plenty of parking.
11:29:44 I have never had problems getting in or out.
11:29:46 So there's not a traffic problem there.
11:29:47 The only traffic problem on Spruce is Home Depot up the
11:29:53 As far as any rowdiness at this bar, it is not a rowdy
11:29:58 It is a place to see the fine art of craft brewing, and
11:30:06 that's what it is.
11:30:06 It's a fine art.
11:30:10 And the next thing is, a lot of people you see here,
11:30:16 that's their jobs.
11:30:17 How can we in this economy try to get rid of jobs?
11:30:21 Thank you.
11:30:27 >> My name is Paul kabony, president of Florida
11:30:32 beverage, one of Cigar City distributors in the State
11:30:35 of Florida.
11:30:36 We don't cover the Tampa area but we cover a good
11:30:38 amount of land mass in the State of Florida.
11:30:41 We do operate in Tampa.
11:30:43 I understand Tampa very well.
11:30:45 95% of my business is craft beer.
11:30:47 And I can tell you that craft beers need their tasting
11:30:52 rooms to market.
11:30:53 You won't see a NASCAR with a craft logo on it.
11:30:58 You won't see its image at the Super Bowl.
11:31:02 This is the way that these brands market their
11:31:06 And Cigar City has become a world known brand.
11:31:11 And that has helped the City of Tampa and Florida.
11:31:15 I have retailers that are setting up trips to come to
11:31:18 Tampa from Jacksonville, Orlando, and also Tallahassee.
11:31:23 And the next 30 to 45 days.
11:31:27 Those people will not just come to the brewery.
11:31:29 They will go out and eat, they will go to other
11:31:33 locations, and spend money before they leave town.
11:31:35 They may even get hotel rooms.
11:31:38 They bring business.
11:31:39 Cigar City brings business to Tampa.
11:31:41 And as you know, business brings tax dollars.
11:31:45 So I also should let now that in 2007, we started our
11:31:52 company with four people.
11:31:54 Cigar City is the fifth largest brand.
11:31:57 And we are now at 20 people.
11:31:59 So in 2011, first quarter, I plan to hire another four
11:32:10 It's due to brands like this that I can do that and
11:32:13 hopefully take the dent out of the unemployment in the
11:32:16 State of Florida.
11:32:16 Thank you for your time.
11:32:19 >> I live on Westlawn Avenue in South Tampa so pretty
11:32:26 well aware of what bars can do to the neighborhoods.
11:32:29 First I would like to say I would like to have ten
11:32:31 Cigar Cities right next door to me than one drink on
11:32:34 the corner of Platt and Howard listening to that stuff
11:32:37 at 2:00 in the motorcycle Cigar City.
11:32:40 It's not a bar.
11:32:41 It's a tasting room.
11:32:42 I am the Executive Director of the Florida brewery
11:32:44 build, 501 C 6.
11:32:51 We have members down to Key West.
11:32:53 These are all small businesses, local businesses.
11:32:55 They employ local people.
11:32:56 They are craftsmen.
11:32:57 They are taking products and creating artistic
11:33:01 We make .5002 of the total amount of brewed beer
11:33:06 produced in Florida, less than two 100,000ths of a
11:33:14 These guys are creating fan takes tech beverages.
11:33:16 They are huge in support of the community.
11:33:18 A big issue has been brought up is tourism.
11:33:20 Beer tourism is huge all over the world.
11:33:22 People are coming and traveling just to taste the
11:33:25 artistic beverages that you can't get anywhere else
11:33:28 except at the breweries.
11:33:29 Again, reiterating people are going to come, stay in
11:33:33 hotels, eat at local restaurants.
11:33:35 These people support local restaurants.
11:33:38 They are not going to Olive Garden or things like that.
11:33:41 They are going to Tampa Bay brewing company.
11:33:43 They are spending dollars throughout the community.
11:33:45 Another issue that was brought up is economies of
11:33:48 When you look at Anheuser-Busch plant in Jacksonville
11:33:52 that makes 9 billion-barrels of beer, Cigar City is
11:33:56 doing 2 to 3,000.
11:33:58 It takes a lot of manpower.
11:34:00 It's not automated.
11:34:01 It's physical labor.
11:34:02 These gays love what they do. It's not robots that are
11:34:06 making the beer.
11:34:07 It's not computer programs that are running the
11:34:09 It's people actually doing the job.
11:34:12 It is about jobs.
11:34:12 The tasting room allows the brewery to actually fund
11:34:16 their growth, be able to fund the ability to hire new
11:34:19 Without the tasting rooms, that's not going to happen.
11:34:23 The State of Florida is built for Anheuser built.
11:34:27 It's not built for Cigar City.
11:34:29 These guys need the tasting room to be successful.
11:34:31 Thank you.
11:34:33 >> Joe Clark, a 5 Lake Shore drive.
11:34:40 I'm one of the lucky 22 that gets to work for Joey
11:34:43 I'm here to urge you --
11:34:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Excuse me, did you testify last week,
11:34:48 the week behalf before last?
11:34:50 >> No, sir.
11:34:51 I haven't been here before.
11:34:53 >> Go ahead.
11:34:53 >> Like I said I'm one of the lucky ones.
11:34:56 I'm proud to work for Joey Redner at Cigar City
11:34:59 I'm a craft beer enthusiast.
11:35:05 I love to come be part of the local Tampa community
11:35:08 working for Cigar City.
11:35:09 We do our best to export our culture, our Tampa Bay
11:35:12 culture to the rest of the.
11:35:14 Of the world and the rest of the state.
11:35:16 It's been mentioned many times a lot of beer tourism
11:35:19 comes to Tampa because of what we are doing at Cigar
11:35:22 City brewing.
11:35:25 If you guys do not vote in favor of this nine people
11:35:27 could lose their job just in time for Christmas because
11:35:30 they will be forced to lay off our tasting room staff.
11:35:33 These are all great guys that love what they do, and we
11:35:35 are all very proud to export this Tampa culture.
11:35:40 I hope your vote will assure me that made the right
11:35:42 decision to come work and pay taxes and spend money in
11:35:45 the Tampa Bay area and I would love to leave you by
11:35:49 saying I'm a craft beer enthusiast and a good neighbor.
11:35:52 Thank you.
11:35:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
11:35:54 Next speaker.
11:35:54 >> 122 Mitchell drive, Tampa, Florida.
11:36:00 I'm one of the 22 employees.
11:36:02 My job is in the tasting room.
11:36:04 I would be directly affected by this decision.
11:36:06 The staff has really helped me in many way, been
11:36:09 flexible in schedule in the fact that I have a
11:36:11 grandmother at home that suffers from dementia.
11:36:17 Due to this bills have gone out of control.
11:36:19 This job has helped us get balance back in the
11:36:21 It's as far as a caretaker.
11:36:27 As far as recklessness I have never seen any in the
11:36:30 Been there since day one pretty much.
11:36:33 I work four days a week.
11:36:34 I have seen nothing that indicates some of these
11:36:36 accusations that I have heard towards us.
11:36:38 It's been great.
11:36:39 I meet people from all over the nation; the world,
11:36:42 people are excited.
11:36:44 People that drive from Orlando.
11:36:45 And on their Disney vacations.
11:36:47 We left the kids with the grandparents, and we took an
11:36:51 hour drive over, had to come to Cigar City.
11:36:53 I go et that from Sarasota, Miami, everywhere.
11:36:57 I really don't think we are doing any harm to anyone.
11:36:59 And I really hope you see it our way.
11:37:01 Thank you.
11:37:06 >> E.P. Turso, 4606 Kilgorn court, Tampa, Florida, also
11:37:14 one of the 22 employees.
11:37:15 About 50% of my job is to give the tours.
11:37:19 So people come in to the tasting room.
11:37:22 They will actually have a beer, will walk around the
11:37:28 brewery, I go through the whole process.
11:37:30 People are so thrilled to see what we are doing with
11:37:34 the community.
11:37:35 And if we got shut down, we would lose a lot of those
11:37:40 people coming through to check us out, because it
11:37:43 wouldn't be any place for them to relax and enjoy the
11:37:46 They would only be able to look and not be able to
11:37:49 taste or anything like that.
11:37:51 So this right here would affect a lot of my job as
11:37:55 And I hope you guys do vote in favor.
11:38:00 And the rowdiest I have ever seen that bar is over a
11:38:03 friendly game of darts.
11:38:04 I have never seen anyone ever get hammered or drunk or
11:38:09 anything like that.
11:38:10 They are all friendly people, blue collar people,
11:38:13 coming in out of work, wanting to check the place out,
11:38:17 and, you know, the only time I ever see it get out of
11:38:21 control is maybe a darts game.
11:38:23 That is it.
11:38:24 So I would like to say thank you.
11:38:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
11:38:29 >> My name is Hampton Dohrman, 1813 East 18th
11:38:36 Avenue, 33605.
11:38:38 I am a nonprofit arts manager and a community advocate,
11:38:42 and I am here to speak on behalf of Cigar City and the
11:38:46 efforts they take in the community.
11:38:49 I met Joey and Wayne, I think January of last year.
11:38:54 I had an art gallery called five art gallery named best
11:38:59 art gallery in Tampa for 2009, in the cigar factory at
11:39:04 Howard and Spruce.
11:39:07 I have walked into the warehouse, and Joey and Wayne
11:39:10 were literally sitting on the floor trying to figure
11:39:13 out how to assemble one of their brewery distillers or
11:39:19 something like that.
11:39:20 I spoke to Joey and said, hey, I have an art gallery on
11:39:24 the streets, do you do any support?
11:39:26 Without batting an eye, he said absolutely.
11:39:28 The first thing they brought to the gallery looked like
11:39:30 sort of cryogenic experiments with tubes and things
11:39:33 going all over the place.
11:39:35 Since then, Joey and Cigar City brewing have sponsored
11:39:40 more than half a dozen cultural events, visual art
11:39:45 shows, music events, things that take creative approach
11:39:48 to children and literacy, and I never have to ask Joey
11:39:54 twice for anything like that.
11:39:55 So speaking in support of how good neighbors they are,
11:39:58 and how valuable an asset they are to the community,
11:40:02 not only are they bringing jobs and tourist dollars,
11:40:08 but they are doing it in a very authentic cultural way
11:40:12 by incorporating the other great attributes of the City
11:40:15 of Tampa like beers make guava made with coffee, so
11:40:21 encourage the City Council to approve whatever they
11:40:24 If I were on City Council I would just give them
11:40:26 anything they asked for.
11:40:28 [ Laughter ]
11:40:31 If there are legitimate concerns in terms of, you know,
11:40:35 100-foot setbacks or any of those sort of technicality
11:40:40 minutia, I would love to see the council show visionary
11:40:43 leadership and find solutions to those problems rather
11:40:46 than hiding behind the problems themselves.
11:40:50 Thank you.
11:40:55 >> Good morning.
11:40:56 My name is Matt Abdeney, 1202 East Broad Street Tampa,
11:41:03 I'm a 21-year resident of Tampa, went to Mitchell
11:41:07 element remit, Wilson middle school, Plant High School,
11:41:10 graduated HCC, graduate of USF.
11:41:14 My heart resides in Tampa.
11:41:17 I have a huge passion for Tampa and being a good
11:41:21 citizen of Tampa.
11:41:24 I am a distributor of Cigar City beer.
11:41:30 I am almost a ten-year friend of Joey Redner, Jr.
11:41:36 And I will tell you my experiences with Cigar City have
11:41:38 been nothing but positive from day one.
11:41:44 I was fortunate enough to conceptualize Cigar City
11:41:47 brewery years before its actual conception, physically,
11:41:52 and they have been nothing but a positive attribute for
11:41:54 our community.
11:41:57 I deal with over 50 craft brewers and specialty brewers
11:42:01 from around the world, and many of these suppliers come
11:42:04 to town very frequently.
11:42:06 Just yesterday I had the owner, president of a very
11:42:09 reputable brewery in Boulder, Colorado, which is one of
11:42:12 the best brewing communities in the country, and he had
11:42:14 nothing but rave reviews to say of Cigar City.
11:42:18 Every time someone from the brewing community comes to
11:42:20 town, they want to visit Cigar City.
11:42:23 They do visit us locally when they are here.
11:42:28 They do use our local hotels.
11:42:30 And they also want to be part of the passion and fire
11:42:36 that is behind Cigar City brewery.
11:42:39 A personal experience, I was in the brewery with an
11:42:42 associate, and a supply a couple of weeks ago.
11:42:45 I got to meet five gentlemen, indicated they are from
11:42:51 the financial banking segment, and I struck up a
11:42:54 conversation with them.
11:42:55 They noted that whenever they have clients in town they
11:43:00 bring them to Cigar City brewery so it is a tourist
11:43:03 attraction, as is Bern's steakhouse, a connoisseurship
11:43:09 rather than a loose luxury, if you will.
11:43:13 So thank you very much.
11:43:14 Please vote the tasting room.
11:43:17 Thank you.
11:43:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker it.
11:43:22 >> Cory stirman, Tampa, Florida 33613.
11:43:29 I was born in Tampa, Jesuit, graduated from USF, and
11:43:33 while I went to USF, for six years I worked at a
11:43:38 restaurant that specialized in craft beers, foreign
11:43:42 beers, stuff like that.
11:43:43 And to serve at this restaurant, go to other bars it's
11:43:46 one thing to have, you know, local beer on draft.
11:43:48 And it really matters and it's the kind of thing you
11:43:50 can be proud of.
11:43:53 Cigar City, people think of Sam Adams, they think of
11:43:57 Some day Cigar City, the same thing, a tour books kind
11:44:00 of thing.
11:44:01 People come to visit.
11:44:02 My friends in Orlando come.
11:44:05 They are looking forward to coming.
11:44:07 They will be here in town.
11:44:08 They come to this town to go to the tasting room.
11:44:12 They come to Cigar City.
11:44:14 And I just really think that you should let them have
11:44:18 Thank you.
11:44:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
11:44:19 Next speaker.
11:44:23 >> Resident of Carver City.
11:44:33 Carver City is a neighborhood being impacted by traffic
11:44:37 Joe showed you a map of total wines but if you look,
11:44:41 there is a detour for the traffic to go back towards
11:44:44 Dale Mabry.
11:44:47 BP, I may be wrong about the name, but it sells gas.
11:44:50 The people take the gas, take their beer home.
11:44:54 Total wine does, too
11:44:55 Taste of beer, I would like for the police department
11:44:58 to sit right there, pull over so many cars and see if
11:45:03 they pass the level about the drinking limit.
11:45:08 That's one good thing.
11:45:09 Now we have been fighting transportation to keep the
11:45:12 traffic out and detour and go out of Carver City.
11:45:16 We don't want Ybor City.
11:45:20 These are tax paying people.
11:45:23 We don't want Ybor City.
11:45:26 Now what I'm saying?
11:45:29 And the children in the neighborhood, we plan on
11:45:32 getting rid of that, too.
11:45:34 And by right by the park, 301 over there, right by the
11:45:38 church, we are trying to get alcohol and drugs out of
11:45:42 our black community, not impacting.
11:45:44 And City Council, people that voted you in is white.
11:45:51 Just like anybody, oh, you can have some beer.
11:45:54 These people, come on, don't speak what's right.
11:46:06 We need to come back together.
11:46:07 We are trying to work with the preachers and the police
11:46:11 department to raise our children to get them back on
11:46:13 the right path.
11:46:14 Look at your schoolhouses.
11:46:19 So let's get back to doing the right things by family.
11:46:26 Get the police to pull over brothers and sisters having
11:46:32 a tavern or beer in my neighborhood.
11:46:36 A lot of these people can't come down here and talk
11:46:39 about it, what I'm trying to say.
11:46:41 You understand what I'm saying?
11:46:42 The children are being hurt.
11:46:44 And there's only so many ways out of Carver City.
11:46:47 And we have been working with transportation.
11:46:49 It's all in your records.
11:46:53 Everybody tasting some alcohol.
11:46:58 Does that make sense?
11:47:02 So a lot of these people aren't from my neighborhood.
11:47:08 These people are taxpayers.
11:47:09 They raised children.
11:47:11 They have done good.
11:47:13 And we are trying to get people off of the corners, and
11:47:18 not seeing this type of place.
11:47:22 And we have been very impacted by traffic.
11:47:25 All the other places have a detour.
11:47:27 We have been working with the -- begging City Councils
11:47:30 to do right by the neighborhood.
11:47:32 And we have got to go through this and that.
11:47:42 Anybody killed by alcohol.
11:47:45 If anybody got something against it you can join in.
11:47:50 (Bell sounds).
11:47:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right, thank you.
11:47:56 Next speaker.
11:47:57 Thank you.
11:48:00 Your time is up, sir.
11:48:02 Next speaker.
11:48:02 >> My name is Doug, 15th Avenue south in Gulfport,
11:48:10 Florida, a production manager over at cigar industry
11:48:12 Not to correct everybody who has already spoken but I
11:48:15 believe we are actually at 23 employees.
11:48:17 Number 23 is sitting in the back right there.
11:48:19 Just added yesterday.
11:48:20 So we are still growing.
11:48:22 22 is not the limit.
11:48:24 What has fueled that growth is the tasting room.
11:48:27 As people said, we don't have millions of dollars to
11:48:29 throw into advertising and flashy ads and iguanas
11:48:34 talking on trees.
11:48:35 We feel that people coming to our brewery face to face
11:48:39 with us that kind of interaction is what grows our
11:48:42 And if we have that the business will fall and all of
11:48:45 those people will be out of work including myself.
11:48:48 I want to keep my job.
11:48:49 I'm asking City Council to let me keep my job.
11:48:52 I would also like to say that Cigar City builds on a
11:48:56 very rich history.
11:48:58 And we don't just take a little bit of history an put
11:49:00 it on the label.
11:49:01 We use locally grown products wherever we can.
11:49:04 We use local coffee, lemon leaves.
11:49:11 That is as local as it gets.
11:49:13 So we take literally take and we put it into an
11:49:17 artistic, well-received craft beverage that is world
11:49:21 I have traveled around the country with the brewery.
11:49:24 And when we first traveled, Cigar City, now it's Cigar
11:49:28 City, I want to talk to you, I want to meet you P.and
11:49:32 we tell them about Tampa.
11:49:33 People come down to our brewery, to taste our product.
11:49:38 And, yes, they stay here, they spend money here.
11:49:42 It's a feather in Tampa's cap and I would like to ask
11:49:45 City Council to not pass up this opportunity to keep in
11:49:49 the there.
11:49:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
11:49:51 Next speaker.
11:49:51 >> Sean Marquis, 19th Avenue north, St. Petersburg,
11:49:58 I'm actually a writer for freelance writer.
11:50:00 I do write for creative loafing.
11:50:03 Pi also write for the hot press, as well as
11:50:08 Alexander.com and of course my own blog.
11:50:11 I have been a craft beer writer now for a little
11:50:13 over -- almost two years now, and my very first
11:50:16 interview was with Joey, who graciously took that time,
11:50:21 just as they were really getting going to tell me what
11:50:23 they were doing, about being part of the community,
11:50:26 about working with the community.
11:50:28 I wanted to have something for Tampa to be proud of and
11:50:31 because for a long time the rest of the country and the
11:50:34 world looked at Florida as a beer wasteland, which to
11:50:38 be fair kind of was.
11:50:42 One of the misconceptions, and people referred to the
11:50:45 tasting room as a bar, and really to call the tasting
11:50:48 room a bar is like calling AP gallery for an artist
11:50:54 studio as a retail shop.
11:50:57 Because what's going on there, if you have true masters
11:51:01 of their craft, displaying their wares, offer their
11:51:06 wares people there to enjoy it.
11:51:08 People come there to enjoy them.
11:51:10 They don't just grab one and leave and don't talk about
11:51:12 People come, they come hover from St. Petersburg, they
11:51:15 come from Orlando, from South Beach, Jacksonville,
11:51:19 Detroit, California, Canada, Europe, and they come and
11:51:24 they tasted beers and they talk about how great they
11:51:26 Then they tell their friends about their trip to Tampa
11:51:29 and say, yes, here is the hotel I stay in, here are the
11:51:32 restaurants I stayed in, and they are not Olive Garden,
11:51:34 they went to the refinery, they went to decks, they
11:51:38 went to Tampa Bay brewing company, they talk about
11:51:40 these local businesses and more people come and spend
11:51:42 more money in Tampa.
11:51:44 The craft beer community is throughout the world talk
11:51:49 to each other.
11:51:50 I talk to people all over the country and all over the
11:51:52 world on AP daily base business what's going on in the
11:51:55 craft beer world.
11:51:56 People are paying attention to Tampa.
11:51:57 And largely through the efforts of Cigar City and Joey
11:52:02 People want to come to Tampa to visit Cigar City, and
11:52:06 to see the beer culture that is growing here.
11:52:09 That's good for everybody.
11:52:11 The money gets spent here.
11:52:12 The money stays here.
11:52:14 And I had an argument actually with a gentleman from
11:52:18 Britain who said when this whole council meeting
11:52:23 discussion came up, he said, oh, that's what happens
11:52:25 when you have no beer culture.
11:52:27 And I said, we have a beer culture in Florida.
11:52:30 Help me prove him wrong.
11:52:31 Thank you.
11:52:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
11:52:35 Next speaker.
11:52:37 >> My name is Bill Leon, 5637 forest haven circle,
11:52:42 Tampa 333615.
11:52:47 It seems that the City Council is frustrated, way heard
11:52:52 them say is they have had to waiver and compromise over
11:52:54 and over again, and I can understand why that build
11:52:59 tension and on their part beings and it seems that they
11:53:02 are really invested so they can't turn around even
11:53:04 though -- probably wouldn't start over in this
11:53:13 When I read the controversy, I immediately said, it
11:53:16 doesn't make sense to me.
11:53:18 These are the things they are complaining about?
11:53:20 None of it is anything I have seen.
11:53:21 And I popped in there once or twice a week.
11:53:24 And I think I might even be their rowdiest customer and
11:53:29 they don't even really know me by name, but I tipped
11:53:37 over a little beer that was in a glass and I said, oh,
11:53:40 that's a first.
11:53:41 I don't think I have ever seen it happen here before.
11:53:43 Everybody said that.
11:53:44 And tip over a little glass and spill a couple of
11:53:49 That's as rowdy as it gets in there.
11:53:54 I don't know that I ever pulled into the parking lot
11:53:56 and had anybody else right behind me.
11:53:58 I don't know if I ever pulled out and had anybody else
11:54:01 trying to get in.
11:54:02 It's always pretty easy.
11:54:04 There's about 10 on a busy day, 10, 15 people in there.
11:54:08 I usually sit next to people that are fathers and
11:54:11 grandfathers, and successors.
11:54:14 You can tell it.
11:54:16 You can smell it.
11:54:16 You can see that they are accomplished.
11:54:19 They are usually smarter than me and I'm really pretty
11:54:24 [ Laughter ]
11:54:24 And it's a point of light that place.
11:54:28 And I'm kind of new to the craft beer thing.
11:54:30 It's a point of life light and it's priss Tinley a
11:54:33 point of light, I think.
11:54:35 I love that at any given time you can ask one of the
11:54:38 guys that work there, hey, could you give me friend Jim
11:54:41 a quick tour of the brewery?
11:54:42 And Jim brews at home.
11:54:44 And they say, oh, yeah, come on.
11:54:47 And you get this really cool tour.
11:54:49 It's friendly.
11:54:50 Most of the people that go in there are beer nerds.
11:54:56 And I love the term nerds.
11:54:58 I love nerds.
11:55:00 And they created all the cool stuff.
11:55:02 And these guys are creating beer.
11:55:05 And whereas other people are creating iPods and
11:55:10 cell phones that talk to satellites.
11:55:13 And I just couldn't see anything that hold water on the
11:55:17 argument side against them.
11:55:19 And I'm happy that I actually followed through it and
11:55:21 showed up like I said I would hope to.
11:55:24 That's it.
11:55:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
11:55:27 Next speaker.
11:55:31 >> My name is Chris falamina, west San Juan.
11:55:37 I also work at creative loafing.
11:55:39 I am not a writer.
11:55:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me just interrupt for a minute.
11:55:42 It is now about five minutes to 12:00 and I see more
11:55:47 speakers rising.
11:55:48 Council, do you all -- I mean,we get into a timing
11:55:55 issue at this point.
11:55:55 We do have an appeal hearing that's set.
11:55:59 So our rule calls for us to break at 12:00.
11:56:03 Is that right, Mr. Shelby?
11:56:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Unless you decide otherwise,
11:56:07 Mr. Chairman.
11:56:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So my suggestion is if there's new
11:56:14 evidence, if you don't have nothing knew to kind of
11:56:17 limit it so we won't carry this into the afternoon.
11:56:19 Otherwise we will be coming back here at 1:30.
11:56:21 >>> I have a couple of things I would like to share.
11:56:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Go right ahead.
11:56:25 >> Wonderful.
11:56:25 Like I said, I work at creative loafing.
11:56:28 I am not the gentleman responsible for misquoting you,
11:56:31 But I am what would be called a sponsor development
11:56:39 roll over at creative loafing.
11:56:43 It's a fancy way of saying I'm a salesperson.
11:56:45 I have been working with Joey when it was just Joey and
11:56:49 Wayne when it was in its embryonic state.
11:56:52 Since that time they have been nothing but amazing
11:56:54 community partners.
11:56:55 They have supported us on numerous indications where we
11:56:58 offered to have their proceeds benefit various
11:57:03 charities from Hampton's charities that you spoke of
11:57:05 earlier to right now they are currently helping us
11:57:09 support the children's home with two wonderful items on
11:57:11 our auction.
11:57:13 These guys are truly Tampa ambassadors as well.
11:57:17 They are using local ingredients.
11:57:19 They are putting the name Tampa in front of people in
11:57:23 beer regions that do not know of Tampa.
11:57:26 Portland, Oregon, Seattle, Washington, Boulder,
11:57:30 Colorado, even upstate New York.
11:57:32 They are using local ingredients, and they are
11:57:34 stimulating the local economy.
11:57:36 They are actually a special beer, and I don't know if I
11:57:39 should be saying it but as a salesperson I hear lots of
11:57:42 Booker T. and company are supplying to have a special
11:57:47 beer produced.
11:57:48 This is something that could not be done without the
11:57:50 vision that Joey brings to the table.
11:57:54 I have been there on numerous occasions.
11:57:56 Obviously I am in direct contact working with Joey.
11:57:59 I have never on my multiple visits seen anything
11:58:02 disrespectful or rowdy or anything else like that.
11:58:07 The no traffic issues, aside from Home Depot, which I'm
11:58:11 sure everybody is aware of including the residents at
11:58:13 the neighborhood.
11:58:15 The five or ten people that may trickle in or out of
11:58:19 the brewery at any given time for a tour is not
11:58:21 impacting the neighborhood negatively.
11:58:24 All it's doing is putting Tampa on the map in a
11:58:27 positive fashion.
11:58:29 Finally I would like to address the word "bar"
11:58:32 constantly being used.
11:58:33 It's not a bar.
11:58:34 It's a tasting room.
11:58:35 It's where samples are done.
11:58:36 There's not imbibing.
11:58:38 It's not overindulgence.
11:58:40 It's samplings samples.
11:58:42 They are sampling their wares so they can sell more so
11:58:44 they can continue to have Tampa represented in a
11:58:48 I urge to you keep these 23 now jobs available so they
11:58:52 can continue to spend tax dollars.
11:58:54 Thank you.
11:58:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
11:58:59 What's the pleasure of council?
11:59:00 We have two minutes to 12.
11:59:02 I need to know.
11:59:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I can tell you one thing,
11:59:06 Mr. Chairman.
11:59:07 I don't know what new evidence can be brought up.
11:59:09 Even the same speaker said he had something new, spoke
11:59:13 about the same evidence that was said 20 times earlier.
11:59:17 I mean, I'm willing to stay, but I'm not coming back at
11:59:21 I have an appointment that is very important.
11:59:28 I mean, if they have new evidence, I'm willing to do
11:59:31 whatever is necessary.
11:59:32 But even the former speaker that just spoke said it was
11:59:35 something new, and if you check the record, there's
11:59:39 nothing new.
11:59:41 So I'm not opposed to anyone speaking.
11:59:44 I'm opposed to anyone being redundant with the evidence
11:59:47 because it's already on the record on both sides.
11:59:51 That's what I'm saying.
11:59:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council?
11:59:55 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Maybe the two speakers --
11:59:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, at this point our rules say we
11:59:59 break at 12.
12:00:01 It's one minute to 12.
12:00:02 I need to know what the pleasure of council is at this
12:00:04 >>MARY MULHERN: Maybe finish the agenda item, and we
12:00:15 are going to have to come back for the second one, for
12:00:18 the last agenda item on our meeting.
12:00:21 So if we come back for that at 1:30.
12:00:26 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I second it.
12:00:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So we continue this item?
12:00:30 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
12:00:31 And I would like to kind of second what Mr. Miranda was
12:00:35 We have heard a lot of testimony.
12:00:36 And I think this council is probably ready to vote.
12:00:39 So unless you do have something, a new fact to
12:00:44 present -- please, if you would like to speak, we don't
12:00:51 want to tell anyone not to speak.
12:00:52 We want to hear from you.
12:00:54 So just keep it to something that we haven't already
12:00:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, there's a motion that we
12:00:59 continue this item.
12:01:00 Moved and seconded.
12:01:01 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
12:01:05 It is my understanding after this item we will break
12:01:07 for lunch.
12:01:08 Is that right?
12:01:09 And come back, staff will have to come back for the
12:01:11 appeal, which we have to set time, depending on when we
12:01:17 wrap this up.
12:01:17 Next speaker.
12:01:18 >> Theodore Scott.
12:01:19 My address is 4511 west Scott lane, Tampa, Florida.
12:01:27 My background is 38 years in finance and accounting in
12:01:32 higher education.
12:01:33 So consequently, I will be the last one that would be
12:01:38 against anything of economic development.
12:01:43 However, I like to point out something.
12:01:50 In talking about how this community is business
12:01:53 And they talk about the last 40 or 50 years.
12:01:56 My family moved out in the Carver City area 57 years
12:02:02 ago, and at that time, there was no WalMart, there was
12:02:10 no Mons Venus, there was none of the businesses that
12:02:13 you see there presently now.
12:02:16 The only two businesses that were there was central
12:02:20 trucking line that was on the corner of Spruce and Dale
12:02:24 Mabry, and then Jim Walters moved in a few years later.
12:02:30 But that was not a business intensive area.
12:02:34 And that's one thing I want to make clear.
12:02:37 All of this has been developed around this community at
12:02:44 such a point to its development.
12:02:46 Now, we talk about the traffic, no problems there.
12:02:54 The Carver City lien can garden area, especially Carver
12:02:57 City, has really been gutted by the expansion of the
12:03:01 Lois Avenue area.
12:03:02 It runs right through the heart of that community.
12:03:05 It also has brought about a number of drivers driving
12:03:12 up through there the neighborhood that other people
12:03:15 don't see.
12:03:20 And with the exception of one person, all of these
12:03:25 people who are talking are outside of the community.
12:03:28 Now you might say that I'm outside of it.
12:03:30 But I have a house where I told you in the Carrollwood
12:03:35 area but I stay with my mother every night.
12:03:37 I have been doing this for approximately the last three
12:03:40 I have six other relatives who still live in the Carver
12:03:43 City lien can garden area.
12:03:46 And, you know, this is just one thing that we are
12:03:50 tackling right now.
12:03:51 But we have many problems out there.
12:03:52 They talk about youth.
12:03:54 We work with all forms of problems out in that area.
12:03:57 And I have to commend Mr. Redner for hiring 23
12:04:04 I think that's commendable.
12:04:05 But I would like to say I hope that he becomes an equal
12:04:10 employment employer.
12:04:15 I also would like to say that we are not opposed to
12:04:20 this type of business.
12:04:22 We are just opposed to where it's located.
12:04:26 I have worked in real estate for about 30 or 40 years,
12:04:31 although I am not active now.
12:04:32 But I could find many locations for that brewery.
12:04:36 We just don't want in the our community.
12:04:39 The young man that got up a few minutes ago that talked
12:04:41 about how we are trying to keep it family oriented,
12:04:46 well, we can't do it.
12:04:49 It's just one more thing, they are already out there,
12:04:51 let them go.
12:04:51 (Bell sounds)
12:04:54 Thank you.
12:04:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
12:04:54 >> Rebecca Kert, legal department.
12:04:58 Before the applicant gets rebuttal, I just wanted to
12:05:00 make a couple of clarifications for the record
12:05:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I have a series of questions I
12:05:07 would like to ask staff.
12:05:07 >>REBECCA KERT: Okay.
12:05:08 Would you like to do that before I make my
12:05:10 >> Do you want to make your clarification now or wait
12:05:13 until I get through?
12:05:16 >> That's fine.
12:05:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
12:05:17 Council, first of all let me just say, I think I need
12:05:21 to speak to the issue of economic development.
12:05:23 I don't think any of us here oppose economic
12:05:25 development, and job creation.
12:05:27 I think that the issue is more or less when we have
12:05:32 something to come before us, we have to make a decision
12:05:34 based on the facts before us.
12:05:36 I think we all recognize that we have liquor lay sense
12:05:42 and wet zoning coming before us all the time where a
12:05:44 person talks about job creation or people being hired,
12:05:48 as well as restaurants.
12:05:51 So a lot of times, the vote is based on the evidence
12:05:56 that's before us based on the public testimony.
12:05:59 Just a few weeks ago, now what happened to us, I
12:06:04 opposed that and voted for it and we had a room full of
12:06:07 neighborhood citizens in the building.
12:06:10 You know that creates jobs.
12:06:13 Other restaurants that create jobs.
12:06:20 So to say we are opposed to economic development, jobs,
12:06:22 that's inaccurate.
12:06:23 We as elected individuals have responsibility to do due
12:06:27 diligence and hear from the public and make sure that
12:06:29 we have evidence based on the decision that is made by
12:06:31 this council.
12:06:32 I want that reflected.
12:06:34 In fact, just the week laugh last, we had a sign issue,
12:06:39 and we had a room full of community folks that opposed
12:06:43 So, I mean, they certainly provide jobs.
12:06:48 [ Laughter ]
12:06:48 So we had to base our decision on the evidence and the
12:06:51 fact before us.
12:06:52 Now, with that being said, I think we need to be clear,
12:06:55 Ms. Feeley -- you need to come forward -- tell us today
12:06:59 why we are hear.
12:06:59 Go back to 2008.
12:07:00 Why is this petition before us?
12:07:04 I need to be very clear.
12:07:05 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land Development Coordination.
12:07:10 I do want to be clear, because under the CI, commercial
12:07:14 intensive zoning district, that this property is zoned,
12:07:18 a microbrewery can exist there, and distribution can
12:07:22 exist there without a special use for alcohol.
12:07:25 So I do want to make that clear.
12:07:27 If this is denied today the brewery could still stay
12:07:30 there in operation and continue to didn't.
12:07:32 They could not have a tasting room.
12:07:35 That is what is before you today is the tasting room.
12:07:38 In 2008, the petition came before you, and council
12:07:45 elected to vote, and the petitioner accepted a one-year
12:07:50 conditional approval --
12:07:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Hold it right there, just right there.
12:07:53 Let's go back.
12:07:55 So everybody knows I vote consistently when it came
12:07:58 Now, the issue is that the brewery could exist, it
12:08:00 couldn't have a tasting room.
12:08:02 Is that right?
12:08:03 >>> Correct.
12:08:04 Microbrewery with distribution is an allowable use.
12:08:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: But the reason they are before us is
12:08:09 because to have the tasting room, they do not meet the
12:08:13 Is that accurate?
12:08:15 >>> For consumption on the premises --
12:08:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: For consumption on the premises, and
12:08:19 therefore, in your report, in order for them to do
12:08:22 that, you have outlined three waivers must be granted.
12:08:28 Is that accurate?
12:08:29 >>> That's correct.
12:08:31 >>: So, again, Mr. Redner has to understand, he said
12:08:35 it's his right, based on the ordinance that City
12:08:43 Council passed some time ago, they cannot exist without
12:08:46 coming before this council in terms of the tasting
12:08:49 room, and that these requirements being waived.
12:08:52 Is that accurate?
12:08:54 >>> That is correct.
12:08:56 They would still come before you even if they did not
12:08:58 have waivers to that distance separation, because the
12:09:01 alcohol for consumption on premises is a special use.
12:09:06 On that property.
12:09:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Going to my point again.
12:09:10 Again, because they do not meet the requirement in
12:09:14 terms of distance separation, is that accurate?
12:09:17 I mean in, your report.
12:09:18 >> Waivers for distance separation, yes.
12:09:22 1,000 feet to 820 for other establishments selling
12:09:25 alcoholic beverage, 1,000 feet to 97 feet to
12:09:29 >> To what?
12:09:30 >> To residential.
12:09:31 >> To what?
12:09:32 >> To residential.
12:09:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 97 feet to what?
12:09:36 >> Residential use.
12:09:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 97 feet from 1,000 feet to
12:09:43 Are you sure that's accurate?
12:09:45 Move from 1,000 fate to 97 feet to residential?
12:09:50 >> If I may.
12:09:56 Eric brought me the zoning atlas.
12:09:57 This is the CI property, the red line.
12:10:00 This is the residential.
12:10:01 That is the 97 feet.
12:10:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I know the answer.
12:10:03 I just want everybody to be clear.
12:10:05 Because Mr. Redner stated that it's his right.
12:10:11 And to be fair, you know and I know and council knows
12:10:15 that we vote now on petitions all the time based on
12:10:17 that requirement alone, that waiver request.
12:10:22 Okay, go ahead.
12:10:25 >>ABBYE FEELEY: The last distance separation is from
12:10:26 1,000 feet to 139 feet for institutional, and that
12:10:30 would be to the fleet facility of the city, which is
12:10:35 located to the west.
12:10:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Also, the other waiver that you have,
12:10:38 other institutional use, the gas station there, right?
12:10:44 The total wine?
12:10:46 >>ABBYE FEELEY: The only two other establishments
12:10:49 selling alcohol that are within 1,000 feet of this
12:10:51 property are the radiant marathon gas station and the
12:10:54 total wine.
12:10:55 Once you get past total wine for that target or the
12:10:59 whole foods, they are outside of that 1,000 feet.
12:11:02 >> It doesn't matter.
12:11:04 The waiver says we have to waive that in order for them
12:11:06 to exist.
12:11:07 Is that accurate?
12:11:08 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Yes, that is correct.
12:11:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And so in actuality, what council did
12:11:15 two years ago was grant them a conditional use.
12:11:18 Is that right?
12:11:20 >> Yes.
12:11:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Which at that time I vote against.
12:11:25 Giving them the opportunity -- I could say a whole lot,
12:11:30 but -- well, giving them the opportunity to exist, and
12:11:39 to have the tasting room.
12:11:40 Is that accurate?
12:11:43 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Yes.
12:11:43 In 2008 a one-year conditional was granted with
12:11:46 conditions to allow for the consumption on premises
12:11:48 which would translate into the tasting room.
12:11:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So I just want the record to reflect
12:11:57 that this is -- that we are granting, and two years ago
12:12:02 we granted a waiver, three waivers, in order for this
12:12:06 tasting room to exist.
12:12:09 Is that accurate?
12:12:11 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Yes, sir.
12:12:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
12:12:14 Councilman Miranda.
12:12:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a question in general terms.
12:12:18 Ms. Feeley, to your recollection and knowledge, since
12:12:20 you are much more eh tuned to these matters than all of
12:12:24 us because you handle most of them that come in for
12:12:26 many, many years, how many petitions for alcohol came
12:12:30 in with no waivers?
12:12:35 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Gosh, I have been reviewing for Land
12:12:37 Development Coordination for close to five years now.
12:12:40 My staff has reviewed for alcohol petitions -- I cannot
12:12:46 recall one that has not had a waiver.
12:12:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
12:12:49 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a question, too.
12:12:54 I'm confused.
12:12:55 Saying this is Cigar City brewing, but they are
12:12:59 Specialty Mall.
12:13:01 What's the difference?
12:13:03 >>ABBYE FEELEY: You will notice even when we do
12:13:04 rezoning applications, you have a lot of LLCs that
12:13:07 come in, and are actually applicants, sometimes an
12:13:11 architect is an applicant.
12:13:12 We don't regulate who the applicant for an application
12:13:15 >>GWEN MILLER: You don't have to specify --
12:13:20 >> As long as the property owner authorizes that the
12:13:22 application can be submitted and that's done through
12:13:26 notarization of the application, then we do not
12:13:29 regulate that that application, whom is the applicant.
12:13:35 We only regulate that it does actually have
12:13:37 authorization from the property owner to be submitted
12:13:39 to the city to move forward.
12:13:40 >>GWEN MILLER: How many times have we given them
12:13:45 conditionals to come back before us?
12:13:46 How many times?
12:13:48 >>ABBYE FEELEY: As I stated, the first was in 2008 and
12:13:50 it had two conditions that the onpremises sales between
12:13:53 the hours of 6 p.m. and 10 p.m. only, Monday through
12:13:57 Friday, and limited to four nights per month, no more
12:14:02 than one time a week, and then the second was that the
12:14:07 off-premises consumption limited between the hours of
12:14:09 9 a.m. and 5 p.m.
12:14:11 That came up, the year expired, and they petitioned
12:14:18 again in November of 2009 requesting permanent status
12:14:22 of the alcoholic beverage permit per VO 9-430 and that
12:14:28 was granted for another one-year conditional for the
12:14:30 property with conditions, the first was that the whole
12:14:33 remain incidental to the microbrewery and the second
12:14:36 was that the hours of operation, Sunday through
12:14:39 Thursday, to close at 9 p.m. and Friday and Saturday to
12:14:43 close at 11 p.m.
12:14:46 And that is why we are before you today, is because
12:14:51 that year is now approaching expiration, and they are
12:14:55 before you to ask for permanent status.
12:14:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Do we usually give more than one
12:14:59 conditional use?
12:15:01 Do we give two conditionals?
12:15:03 Have we ever given that many?
12:15:08 >> Off the top of my head I'm trying to remember who
12:15:11 else might have had a conditional.
12:15:13 I think there may have been one or two.
12:15:15 And then I believe they came back for permanent status
12:15:18 and were granted permanent status.
12:15:20 But I would have to check back.
12:15:22 I'm sorry.
12:15:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Legal?
12:15:27 Ms. Kert?
12:15:28 >>REBECCA KERT: Rebecca Kert, legal department.
12:15:31 Did you have any questions?
12:15:33 Or it's now my time?
12:15:36 >> Depends on what you say.
12:15:38 [ Laughter ]
12:15:38 >>REBECCA KERT: I want to make some clarification that
12:15:40 kind of follows up on what Mrs. Feeley had been talking
12:15:44 The terms permit and license have been used somewhat
12:15:47 interchangeably today and I want to make it clear that
12:15:49 what City Council is going through today is a land use
12:15:51 We call at special use permit.
12:15:53 And that permit attaches to the property, which is why
12:15:56 we have to have the property owner sign off on it.
12:16:01 It does not attach to the applicant, which is why who
12:16:02 the applicant is, good, bad or indifferent, and that
12:16:05 can go many different ways, but that's not relevant to
12:16:09 your land use decision that you are making today.
12:16:11 The state in fact licenses the individual or the
12:16:14 corporation that is selling the alcohol.
12:16:17 The state has preempted us from licensing the
12:16:21 individual, and therefore any issues with the state
12:16:23 license also is not appropriate for your consideration
12:16:26 on this land use decision.
12:16:28 There is also some discussion about who has the burden
12:16:32 of paragraph to show what.
12:16:33 So I wanted to clarify and remained City Council again
12:16:35 how that works.
12:16:36 The applicant has the original initial burden to
12:16:40 demonstrate by competent, substantial evidence that
12:16:43 this use as it is conditioned meats your general
12:16:48 The general criteria in the code and they are also
12:16:51 listed in your site plan.
12:16:53 If there are any waivers to the specific criteria for
12:16:57 the use, in this case alcoholic beverage, small venue,
12:17:00 and in this case waivers that lady to the distance
12:17:03 requirement, the applicant also has the initial burden
12:17:05 to demonstrate that even with the granting of those
12:17:09 waivers, they still need meet your general criteria.
12:17:12 At that point, if the applicant meats that burden, then
12:17:15 City Council should grant the special use permit,
12:17:17 unless City Council can articulate competent
12:17:22 substantial evidence in the record that in fact the
12:17:24 application does not meet the criteria, and is adverse
12:17:28 to the public interest.
12:17:29 And that competent, substantial evidence concludes --
12:17:33 includes fact, factual evidence and expert testimony.
12:17:35 Thank you.
12:17:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: One last question, Ms. Feeley.
12:17:42 What is the current zoning?
12:17:44 In my backup material, it says this is a residential
12:17:49 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Yes, I believe that when this Cass was
12:17:54 presented to you that he made said the staff report is
12:17:58 incorrect and the zoning is CI which is commercial
12:18:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
12:18:11 Mr. Redner, you have five minutes your time.
12:18:13 Five minutes on rebuttal.
12:18:15 >> Specialty Malls is a corporation that I owned that
12:18:23 owns the property.
12:18:24 It is also the IRS's landlord.
12:18:27 It exists on property but I own it.
12:18:30 That's why Specialty Malls is asking for the wet
12:18:34 Joey leases from me.
12:18:37 Cigar City brewing leases from me.
12:18:39 He can't come in here and independent from me and ask
12:18:42 for zoning.
12:18:44 I have to come in with him.
12:18:46 >>> Would if I could.
12:18:51 [ Laughter ]
12:18:54 >> Listen to the people that were against it, still not
12:19:02 one iota of evidence that is specific.
12:19:08 No competent substantial evidence.
12:19:09 And I tell you this because I don't want to go to
12:19:11 I don't want to fight.
12:19:13 In court.
12:19:14 It's a big expense for the city.
12:19:15 It's a big expense for me.
12:19:18 But when it's in a special exemption, the presumption
12:19:23 is once the application is put in, that you have to --
12:19:27 you have to have competent substantial evidence.
12:19:29 Yes, I do have a right, Mr. DeSoto Scott.
12:19:32 It is a permitted use on that property.
12:19:33 We are not asking actually for a waiver.
12:19:35 We are asking for a special exception.
12:19:38 And it is -- the property is permitted for that.
12:19:46 There's no place in the city that you can get a wet
12:19:50 zoning without a waiver, or special exception.
12:19:54 There isn't any place that exists.
12:19:56 >>> Almost every independent is probably within 150 to
12:20:00 200-foot of a residence.
12:20:02 >> Mr. Scott, you just okayed and voted for and the
12:20:05 rest of the City Council did a wet zoning that bordered
12:20:12 on residential area.
12:20:14 Because it has to almost.
12:20:26 I thank you very much for your consideration.
12:20:28 >>> Thank you, City Council.
12:20:30 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want to ask one question out of
12:20:33 curiosity, and since we have spent so much time hearing
12:20:36 about your tasting room.
12:20:40 What is the portion when you give -- when you are
12:20:43 >> Samplers, it's one ounce, and we do sell a lot of
12:20:47 But you can buy a pint but we do price the samplers and
12:20:51 each one is an ounce.
12:20:52 >> But you can buy.
12:20:56 >> You can also buy a pint.
12:20:58 >> A generic term for a package to fill beer.
12:21:08 >>MARY MULHERN: My drinking days are long over so this
12:21:10 is new to me, beer tasting.
12:21:12 >>> Thank you, council.
12:21:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Any other questions?
12:21:17 >> Any other questions by council?
12:21:20 Motion to close?
12:21:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
12:21:22 >> Second.
12:21:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
12:21:25 What's the pleasure of council?
12:21:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, I think I have to first of all
12:21:30 I'm sorry I left the country.
12:21:32 [ Laughter ]
12:21:34 I cost a lot of people a lot of use of gas, use of
12:21:37 time, use of TV time, use of missing from their
12:21:42 But I had to do what I had to do.
12:21:47 When I reviewed all the files, I can tell you that even
12:21:49 the structure size -- and there's no notes -- is
12:21:52 114,020 feet square foot.
12:21:55 I can tell you reading all this, it was about a list of
12:21:58 eight or ten regulars, who are they, what is this, what
12:22:02 is that, and I read all of that.
12:22:05 But that really is not pertinent to the decision that
12:22:09 this council has got to make.
12:22:10 It's either good or bad based on the evidence.
12:22:14 I can tell you that tropical beer and ale, beer and
12:22:19 sale, Budweiser and Schlitz, all gave free beer away to
12:22:24 their employees.
12:22:25 And they were more than an ounce.
12:22:34 It is difficult times, I can tell you.
12:22:36 And I have tried to help the neighborhood when Home
12:22:38 Depot was zoned.
12:22:39 There was a little island put over, and guess what
12:22:44 They turned left so many times the island disappeared.
12:22:48 Through the efforts of my aide, Mary Bryant, we have
12:22:51 put -- and the city and the administration, I give them
12:22:54 credit for that, a flapper all the way down to where
12:22:57 you cannot make a left turn.
12:22:59 Guess what happens.
12:23:00 Somebody ran them over.
12:23:01 There's about eight or ten of them flappers gone.
12:23:06 Just the other day I witnessed an individual making a
12:23:09 right hand turn stopping in the middle of the road on
12:23:11 Spruce to make a left-hand turn.
12:23:13 He's got to be nuts.
12:23:15 Exposing himself and the vehicle to real danger.
12:23:21 I can also tell you that efforts have been made through
12:23:23 ours our offices and the mayor's office to study the
12:23:27 big ditch which is a bigger problem than anything your
12:23:30 neighborhood has to see what the costs are to make the
12:23:35 accommodation that your neighborhood should have and
12:23:37 any other neighborhood has, because to my knowledge
12:23:41 they are no larger ditch than that than a residential
12:23:44 area other than Drew Park, which is zoned differently.
12:23:50 I have had conversation with different neighborhood
12:23:51 associations, different individuals who collect moneys
12:23:55 on a different areas, and even government authorities
12:24:00 that we have that have moneys that will participate
12:24:02 possibly in solving that problem.
12:24:05 It won't be done during my term in office but it will
12:24:08 be done.
12:24:09 I hope.
12:24:13 I have reviewed the file.
12:24:14 I have reviewed the 2008.
12:24:18 I was here.
12:24:20 And what has happened?
12:24:23 What have we come to?
12:24:24 Where are we going?
12:24:27 When I started getting calls from Connecticut, from
12:24:30 Portland, Maine, from Seattle, from California, from
12:24:33 Texas. first of all, I didn't answer them on a city
12:24:38 phone because I'm cheap.
12:24:41 I answer them on my cell phone because it's unlimited.
12:24:44 I talked to a guy in Connecticut, first one.
12:24:50 I didn't know what he wanted.
12:24:52 And he talks to me about the brewery and the business
12:24:54 and I'm telling myself, why is this guy calling me from
12:24:58 And he tells me, I go down there and drink beer at this
12:25:00 place, and I told him it's cheaper to ship it up.
12:25:04 [ Laughter ]
12:25:04 And then he starts to tell me, he changes his story and
12:25:07 talks about his mother in New Port Richey.
12:25:09 I hear the story about the mother in New Port Richey.
12:25:12 And as I called two or three others, I didn't call any
12:25:22 On the other side of my brain decided -- the side that
12:25:25 thinks real well tells me, if I am getting calls from
12:25:28 all over the country regarding this, then I know what's
12:25:35 And let me tell you good folks what's coming.
12:25:39 If there is no substantial evidence not to grant this
12:25:46 application, and on the record you have these hundreds
12:25:49 of phone calls from all over the country that say that
12:25:53 they buy that product, I'm not afraid of a lawsuit.
12:25:57 I just don't like to lose them.
12:26:00 The preponderance would be the loss of income of that
12:26:03 business, the relocation of that business, and things
12:26:08 of nature that would cause the rest of the city an
12:26:12 enormous amount of cost.
12:26:14 And the legal department here, does anyone want to
12:26:17 answer some of these questions that imposing out there?
12:26:21 I'm sorry I woke up during lunch time.
12:26:27 >>REBECCA KERT: I promise I'm paying attention.
12:26:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Is there any evidence to turn this
12:26:34 hearing down?
12:26:41 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I can answer that.
12:26:42 Forgive me, Mr. Miranda, but you are the finders of
12:26:45 You, the City Council.
12:26:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I understand that.
12:26:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And to ask the legal department would
12:26:48 be inappropriate.
12:26:49 She can -- if the question is of a legal conclusion --
12:26:52 and I don't know --
12:26:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Legally I'm asking.
12:26:56 Is there any evidence on the record that you have found
12:26:59 to say under this point it has never been done before,
12:27:04 we have never had a waiver before, we have never done
12:27:07 anything before that would not jeopardize this case in
12:27:14 any way?
12:27:17 >>REBECCA KERT: Mr. Miranda, I do have to agree with
12:27:19 what Marty said.
12:27:21 If you are asking if there's any thought in here to
12:27:24 support or deny, that is up to City Council.
12:27:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.
12:27:28 >>REBECCA KERT: And I can again tell you that the
12:27:30 burden is on the applicant to make sure they meet your
12:27:32 general criteria even if there are waivers.
12:27:36 But the difference between -- this is not a waiver in
12:27:39 the sense that it's a variance.
12:27:40 They do not have to prove a hardship to get the waiver.
12:27:43 They just Virginia to prove that they still continue to
12:27:45 meet your general standards.
12:27:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All right.
12:27:47 Let me state what I heard then.
12:27:49 The police department report was that, way heard, was
12:27:53 there was no tide of evidence that says they created a
12:28:00 nuisance since 2008.
12:28:02 This is one of a few.
12:28:04 I am going to say few just in case.
12:28:06 Bun one of two or three maybe that has ever had by any
12:28:11 council body the one-year conditional, and when they
12:28:15 come back they sed get a second year conditional, and
12:28:18 now they are coming up for a third year with, if I
12:28:26 remember what the petitioner said, with a condition on
12:28:29 the plan that if the brewery was to go away, or the
12:28:37 tasting room went away, it all went away.
12:28:41 Am I correct?
12:28:42 Did I hear that right?
12:28:43 >> Yes, sir.
12:28:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So what I am saying is legally,
12:28:51 forget about the legally.
12:28:53 That's for somebody else to determine.
12:28:56 I don't see the evidence that would hold up in a
12:29:03 decision as this further down to a higher tribunal.
12:29:07 Therefore, I don't see somebody saying, I will never
12:29:12 vote for it again.
12:29:13 That happens to me every day.
12:29:15 It's not new.
12:29:17 Any one of us.
12:29:18 I'm not trying to be smart or joking or anything else.
12:29:21 You see, when you have a large assembly, 50% of the
12:29:24 people here are not going to like what you are going to
12:29:27 And guess what happens.
12:29:28 If you have the same people come back the second time,
12:29:30 the other 50% ain't going to like what you are going to
12:29:34 So you are going to have 100 percent against you.
12:29:37 But we were elected to make the decisions.
12:29:40 In fact, I can tell you by reading the evidence, even
12:29:43 the cost was 180,000 for the period of time of the
12:29:49 I think that's accurate.
12:29:51 So I have read the record.
12:29:53 And I'm ready to vote, Mr. Chairman.
12:29:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a motion?
12:30:04 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Should we read this?
12:30:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That's my recommendation if you wish
12:30:08 to move it.
12:30:08 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I move presenting an ordinance
12:30:10 for first reading a proving a special using permit S
12:30:12 oat 2 for alcoholic beverage sales small venue making
12:30:15 lawful the sale of beverages containing alcohol more
12:30:17 than 1% by weight and not more than 14% by weight and
12:30:22 wines regardless of alcoholic content beer and wine 24
12:30:26 cop for consumption on premises and in sealed
12:30:29 containers for consumption off premises at or from that
12:30:33 certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 3924 West
12:30:38 Spruce Street, Tampa, Florida as more particularly
12:30:41 described in section 2 hereof providing for repeal of
12:30:44 all ordinances in conflict, providing an effective
12:30:48 And we would like -- Abbye, can you give us the hours?
12:30:53 This would be added to the motion.
12:30:56 >> The modification would be just to change the hours
12:30:58 of operation for Sunday to be consistent with the hours
12:31:00 of operation governed, which are 11 a.m. until 10 p.m.
12:31:06 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
12:31:10 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Friday and Saturday 9 to
12:31:16 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Those hours are actually already on the
12:31:18 plan and are correct.
12:31:19 The only modification would be to change for the Sunday
12:31:21 so that it coincided with state law for 11 a.m. sales.
12:31:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just for the purposes of the record,
12:31:28 I just want to know if petitioner agrees with that,
12:31:32 just so it's clear, that between first and second
12:31:34 reading that change will be made?
12:31:36 >> Yes.
12:31:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you could come to the microphone,
12:31:39 >> Yes, we agree with that.
12:31:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
12:31:43 >>MARY MULHERN: I seconded it.
12:31:45 I just wanted to say that I voted for this originally
12:31:52 when it came up 3 to 3 and I think I start supported
12:31:55 both the conditional, and I feel like not only are we
12:31:59 granting this, but there were two votes by this council
12:32:07 that granted this conditional.
12:32:09 So I think -- I feel like it's part of our
12:32:14 responsibility to follow through with those
12:32:17 stipulations we made.
12:32:18 We gave them a conditional wet zoning or special use
12:32:27 permit two years ago, when they came back.
12:32:33 We found a majority of us found that they had met the
12:32:38 requirements, and there wasn't any evidence that they
12:32:42 were violating any of those things that the neighbors
12:32:47 had concerns about, the traffic problems, the crime
12:32:52 There wasn't any evidence then according to the
12:32:54 majority of this council, and then again a year ago, we
12:32:58 agreed to that, but we still put the conditional on.
12:33:00 So I think for this council to be consistent and to
12:33:08 follow through with what we are asking businesses to
12:33:12 do, we have to keep that in mind as we vote for this.
12:33:16 And I have to address the suggestion that this has
12:33:24 anything to do with the neighborhood or that has
12:33:30 anything to do with race, because we did vote earlier
12:33:33 today, I think, on an item that someone mentioned where
12:33:38 we extended the hours of a restaurant's liquor sales
12:33:43 to, I think, 3 a.m.
12:33:45 That's a restaurant on Kennedy that has residential
12:33:50 neighborhood right behind it.
12:33:51 There is zero distance separation.
12:33:54 And I'm pretty sure that's an integrated neighborhood.
12:33:58 It's absolutely not just, you know.
12:34:00 So that suggestion is really offensive to me, you know.
12:34:06 But my experience on this council, there's in a reason
12:34:09 for anyone to think that I or I don't think anyone --
12:34:14 anyone else on this council makes any kind of decision
12:34:16 based on that.
12:34:18 So I just need to say that, because if we are hearing
12:34:23 that in the press, and then we are having people repeat
12:34:25 it, it's just absolutely not true for any of us.
12:34:32 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
12:34:32 Also, would this be added to the motion?
12:34:38 The condition of zoning, with the brewery and the
12:34:44 tasting on the site plan?
12:34:45 Is that something that was agreed upon?
12:34:51 >>REBECCA KERT: The site plan already indicates that
12:34:52 all alcoholic beverage sales are incidental total
12:34:56 microbrewery or in association.
12:35:00 >>YVONNE CAPIN: So we don't have to -- thank you.
12:35:02 I also want to state that this definitely, as a
12:35:09 minority person, that being mentioned and repeated
12:35:17 again, I agree with Councilwoman Mulhern, it is
12:35:22 offensive, and none of us here.
12:35:27 It is based on fact and fact alone.
12:35:29 Thank you.
12:35:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
12:35:33 You say council voted for the waiver the first time.
12:35:35 I did not vote to give waivers.
12:35:38 I did not vote for the conditional the first or the
12:35:41 second time.
12:35:41 I will not vote for this time either.
12:35:44 We are setting a precedent.
12:35:46 We are going to give waivers almost a hundred feet more
12:35:50 than they deserve.
12:35:51 I don't think it's fair to any other person that comes
12:35:55 before us.
12:35:55 If they didn't have to have three waivers, but this is
12:35:58 asking for three waivers, and I don't see how we could
12:36:00 have granted three waivers on these conditions that we
12:36:03 are going by, because we always say that you have
12:36:09 hundred feet more for the neighborhood.
12:36:11 We are doing this, and I don't think it's fair to
12:36:13 change your policy.
12:36:15 If you are going to do it today, then somebody is
12:36:17 coming, let's start today giving the waivers.
12:36:21 Let's give them all the time.
12:36:22 And I don't think they have proved the burden that the
12:36:25 waivers should be granted, that they can have a brewery
12:36:27 without the tasting.
12:36:31 Now they are going to have the tasting P.I don't think
12:36:33 that's fair.
12:36:33 If they are going to come back to us again for
12:36:35 something else, and you are going to do the same thing,
12:36:38 it's still not fair.
12:36:39 So I am not going to support this.
12:36:42 We are going to have to stick to what we say we are
12:36:44 going to do and continue to do what we say we are going
12:36:46 to do.
12:36:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I am not going to support the motion on
12:36:49 the floor.
12:36:50 I voted against it in 2008, 2009, and a couple of weeks
12:36:54 ago, will vote against it today.
12:36:55 I have been very consistent.
12:36:57 Again, because the waiver is granted the first time is
12:37:00 very hard for you not to because of the pending
12:37:04 From my standpoint, didn't meet the criteria. Again 97
12:37:09 feet from 1,000 feet is very significant.
12:37:14 And then the other two, plus the personal testimony
12:37:18 today pointed out the traffic congestion and the
12:37:21 traffic patterns that are going through lien can
12:37:24 garden, Carver City, that's been created, plus the fact
12:37:27 on the record we heard as well that people come from
12:37:30 all over the world, all over the country, to this place
12:37:34 means that there will be more traffic, more congestion,
12:37:37 that's going to be going into the particular
12:37:39 I mean, I don't know what better evidence that's been
12:37:45 given themselves based on that testimony that it will
12:37:48 create congestion, and traffic pattern that's not
12:37:51 accustomed to a neighborhood.
12:37:52 Again, it also was testified for 57 years was
12:37:57 nothing -- wasn't nothing else there, everything else
12:38:00 has not encroached upon that neighborhood causing a lot
12:38:02 of the issues and problems now that lien can garden and
12:38:06 Carver City face.
12:38:07 And so basically what has happened now we are adding
12:38:11 another encroachment into a neighborhood that will
12:38:13 continue to force a traffic congestion pattern.
12:38:17 And I pray that nothing happens to those that are
12:38:21 driving out and been drinking or tasting, that will
12:38:24 cause accidental death to any small child that may be
12:38:29 playing or riding their bike.
12:38:31 Thank you.
12:38:35 There's a motion.
12:38:38 All in favor signify by saying Aye.
12:38:40 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miller, Stokes and
12:38:45 Scott voting no.
12:38:47 Second reading of the ordinance will be held December
12:38:50 16th at 9:30 a.m.
12:38:57 [ Applause ]
12:38:57 [Sounding gavel]
12:38:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
12:39:00 We --
12:39:01 [Sounding gavel]
12:39:02 Hold the noise down, please.
12:39:03 Council is still in session.
12:39:05 Council is still in session.
12:39:07 Council, we will stand in recess --
12:39:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Not coming back at 1:30.
12:39:13 Do you think this will be longer than 30 minutes?
12:39:15 And we can get out, don't have to come back?
12:39:20 I don't think it will last more than 30 minutes.
12:39:24 We won't need to come back at 1:30.
12:39:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, do you want to do that?
12:39:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
12:39:31 It's not going to last 30 minutes.
12:39:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
12:39:34 [Sounding gavel]
12:39:36 Council is still in session.
12:39:38 We are in session.
12:39:40 Thank you.
12:39:41 Thank you.
12:39:42 Thank you.
12:39:44 Then we'll try to take up -- if you don't think it's
12:39:53 going to last longer than 30 minutes, come on.
12:39:59 The clock is ticking.
12:40:00 >> I wasn't sworn in.
12:40:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else that hasn't been sworn,
12:40:08 please stand that's going to be speaking.
12:40:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, this is item number 46,
12:40:14 a continued public hearing on review of VRB-10-99.
12:40:20 (Oath administered by Clerk)
12:40:30 >> This is a VRB case.
12:40:35 This the board denied the request 6-0.
12:40:39 This is VRB-10-99 to increase the height of the sign.
12:40:46 Increase the height of the sign and square footage in
12:40:48 order to make the sign conforming to replace it with an
12:40:51 LED messaging center.
12:40:54 This, I believe, is a de novo?
12:41:01 This is based on the record under your previous rules.
12:41:03 >> Good afternoon, council.
12:41:11 Today we have before you the appeal of Variance Review
12:41:13 Board's denial of case VRB-10-99.
12:41:18 The property in this appeal is located at 2015 north
12:41:22 50th street and the petitioner is Sal em GASOUTI,
12:41:32 seeking variances for an existing sign.
12:41:34 Those variances included decreasing the setback for a
12:41:37 free standing sign from 15 fate to 5 feet.
12:41:41 Increasing the allowable square footage of the sign
12:41:43 from 50 square feet to 132 square feet and increase the
12:41:49 allowable height from 20 feet to 25 feet.
12:41:53 The sign at issue was constructed in 2007 which was
12:41:56 just prior to the sign code.
12:42:00 The applicable code section is section 20.5-13, which
12:42:05 regulates on-site signs, and I have copies of it.
12:42:15 Does everybody have a copy of the code?
12:42:40 All right.
12:42:45 On the bottom of the second page, paragraph C, is what
12:42:50 regulates on-site signs in industrial districts, and
12:42:52 the property in this case is zoned IG or industrial
12:42:56 zone general.
12:42:57 Paragraph C-1-C, which is if you turn over to the third
12:43:02 page, second page, moving onto the third page, is what
12:43:06 pertains to the allowable signs by code, that being
12:43:10 square footage.
12:43:13 Paragraph C-1-B the next paragraph down, allowable
12:43:18 height in the setback.
12:43:20 I have a picture of the existing sign up.
12:43:24 Petitioner's agent presented the case to the VRB and
12:43:29 stated that the sole purpose was to make the sign legal
12:43:32 conforming so they can install mess electric message
12:43:36 The Variance Review Board found there was no evidence
12:43:39 to presented to show a hardship for the granting of the
12:43:43 The board felt the sign could be brought within the
12:43:45 sign code's requirements as far as height, and
12:43:49 consequently the board voted to deny the application by
12:43:52 a vote of 6-0 on the basis of the hardship criteria had
12:43:56 not been met that would warrant the increase height in
12:43:59 square footage of the sign.
12:44:00 Furthermore, the board stated that the variance for the
12:44:03 sole purpose of adding electronic message center was
12:44:07 contrary to the spirit of the city sign code.
12:44:12 As a reminder, I don't know, Mr. Shelby, if you give a
12:44:15 quick criteria that there can be no new evidence
12:44:18 presented to you today, and your actions shall be based
12:44:22 solely on the record created during the variance review
12:44:24 board hearing.
12:44:25 And --
12:44:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I can, also, council, I am going
12:44:30 to be distributing for you section 17.5-74 the
12:44:37 application of that does have the criteria.
12:44:40 Also, council, this appeal is one of the last to come
12:44:47 through that are under the old method, not a de novo
12:44:51 method but the certiorari standards.
12:44:53 What I would like to do is pass to you the previous
12:45:00 code section 27-373, and review with you very briefly
12:45:04 the standard of review in this case.
12:45:09 I think again your decision is to look to whether the
12:45:12 board's decision, the VRB decision, was supported by
12:45:16 competent substantial evidence, two, whether due
12:45:19 process was accorded, and three, whether the essential
12:45:22 requirements of law have been observed, was the proper
12:45:26 law applied properly?
12:45:27 That is your standard of review.
12:45:29 Again, do you not have to hear this case de novo in its
12:45:34 entirety, and the petitioner, petitioner's
12:45:41 representative who is asking for the appeal, could make
12:45:43 the presentation at this point.
12:45:47 Staff, did you want to make additional presentation?
12:45:50 Thank you.
12:45:50 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, do we have the
12:46:01 amendments from the VRB?
12:46:06 >> You should have them in your backup.
12:46:09 >>> Todd Pressman.
12:46:22 P.O. Box 6015 Palm Harbor, Florida. 34684.
12:46:27 We appreciate your time today.
12:46:29 I'll make this very straightforward and brief.
12:46:33 I do want to make you aware there's been absolutely no
12:46:35 objections to this request.
12:46:37 It has come from the public as the record will show you
12:46:39 either again from the public or from the city, and in
12:46:42 terms of zoning staff.
12:46:46 This is a site that is for a mom and pop, more or less
12:46:50 a mom and pop organization.
12:46:51 We have a couple of restaurants.
12:46:54 And really all that is requested here, Mr. Chairman,
12:46:56 council members, if we go to the overhead, please.
12:47:05 What is being requested that you can see is virtually
12:47:07 the same structure.
12:47:10 The only thing that is proposed to change is the
12:47:13 message center which is going from the hand-held
12:47:15 plastic letters to the same size electric message
12:47:21 center with I would operate per city code.
12:47:23 Where I do want to make you aware is that there have
12:47:26 been quite a number of mistakes made by the VRB board
12:47:30 and they refused to accept the hardships that were
12:47:33 The site again just for orientation is located here.
12:47:39 This is north 50th street here.
12:47:42 East 10th.
12:47:43 And east Broadway.
12:47:45 You can see the site case here is at the confluence of
12:47:50 a lot of roadways, very unique roadway situation which
12:47:53 is part of the difficulty and hardship here.
12:47:55 The site had been in disrepair for quite a number of
12:47:58 years until it was taken over by this property owner
12:48:00 and dramatically improved and kept very nice, and is in
12:48:05 very nice state of repair at the moment.
12:48:07 What you will see on the record is that you will see
12:48:09 one of the board members who emphatically states
12:48:14 twice -- and I can read from the record directly for
12:48:16 you -- that there was some kind of violation, or there
12:48:20 was the inability for the board members to vote for
12:48:22 this site, quoting, it will violate the sign code that
12:48:27 specifically disallows us to change the sign based upon
12:48:30 only swapping out electronic versus non-electric sign.
12:48:33 It was stated twice very clearly.
12:48:35 And that the clearly is wrong and led the board down
12:48:45 the wrong track.
12:48:45 Wall also find is a discussion about this site having
12:48:48 to compete with large nonconforming signs, and I do
12:48:52 mean very large tall signs, and the there were
12:48:59 photographs that were handed out.
12:49:01 This is just a few.
12:49:02 This is an example of the McDonald sign which is very
12:49:05 high, very large.
12:49:08 Advanced auto parts
12:49:15 This is the shopping center to the east.
12:49:17 It's a situation where there is a hardship for more or
12:49:19 less -- JD was at the hearing and gave those to me.
12:49:27 Those are the ones that were handed out.
12:49:29 So the hardship which was presented which was not
12:49:31 accepted is this is a site uniquely located for the
12:49:35 roads shown you, that because of making what is more or
12:49:40 less a sleight of hand change of the sign would then
12:49:43 throw them into a fantastically -- a situation that
12:49:47 would put them at a disadvantage to virtually all the
12:49:51 signs in the media area.
12:49:53 So in that respect, we feel that there is a very
12:49:55 definable, credible reason or hardship that meets the
12:50:00 The board refused to accept that, and ventured along a
12:50:05 route that is incorrect.
12:50:06 The second mistake that the V rah B made was that they
12:50:09 clearly stated on the record that they agreed with the
12:50:12 reasons for the setback variance, but then ended that
12:50:16 discussion and did not approve that variance.
12:50:18 We think they would have continued, they clearly would
12:50:21 have found their way to approve the others.
12:50:24 In summary, Mr. Chairman and council members -- and we
12:50:26 appreciate you taking this case.
12:50:27 I know it's getting late.
12:50:29 We appreciate your time.
12:50:30 Clearly on the record, there is ample information to
12:50:33 prove it, ample information why the board was wrong,
12:50:37 and this comes down to a good business issue.
12:50:39 Eights good business issue for a business owner that
12:50:43 has improved the site, brought a good business and runs
12:50:46 a great organization.
12:50:47 Thank you very much.
12:50:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Pressman, the site on 40th and
12:50:50 Hillsborough has a similar sign.
12:50:52 What's the difference in that sign and this sign here?
12:50:59 The site on 40th and Hillsborough.
12:51:01 They just redid that, the sign up.
12:51:03 >> I can't say I November the details of that compared
12:51:11 to this site.
12:51:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's not the same sign.
12:51:14 >> Oh, nor operator?
12:51:16 Yes, there is a similar issue there, yes, sir.
12:51:18 What was your question?
12:51:20 >> Well, is there a difference?
12:51:21 Because I know one exists now like on 40th, right
12:51:25 at the new renovated.
12:51:27 The exact same sign.
12:51:29 >>GWEN MILLER: They are lacking 25 feet.
12:51:31 >> It is the same sign except that's being handled in
12:51:35 PD modification.
12:51:36 And that will be coming to you, yes.
12:51:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That sign is already up.
12:51:41 >> Well, it would be a slight change to electric.
12:51:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: How long do you need?
12:51:53 >>MARY MULHERN: I just had a couple questions.
12:51:55 One, we have a record that we can't see these
12:51:57 photographs at all.
12:51:58 So when you were flipping through the photographs, do
12:52:00 you have one that shows approximate the existing sign,
12:52:05 in this same photograph?
12:52:07 Can you show it to me again?
12:52:10 They are the dark black and white things in here.
12:52:19 I want -- no, Mr. Pressman, you showed us this color
12:52:23 photograph of McDonald and all the other signs.
12:52:26 In a.
12:52:26 I want to see a real, not a diagram photo.
12:52:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: She wants to see the actual.
12:52:32 >>MARY MULHERN: The photograph.
12:52:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is this the photograph of the area?
12:52:36 >>MARY MULHERN: That includes -- that shows the Salem
12:52:40 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Those photographs were not presented
12:52:46 fought board at the VRB and they are not part of the
12:52:49 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
12:52:51 So was there a photograph shown to the VRB that
12:53:01 >>ERNEST MUELLER: There is nothing in the record.
12:53:04 Being see in the packet there's in a photographs of
12:53:05 that, that was present to the board that made it into
12:53:08 the record.
12:53:10 And, you know --
12:53:12 >>MARY MULHERN: But this was in the record?
12:53:14 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Yes, ma'am.
12:53:15 >>MARY MULHERN: That's what I needed to see.
12:53:17 Thank you.
12:53:18 Here is my other question.
12:53:20 I did read through the whole record.
12:53:23 When was this sign erected, the current sign?
12:53:28 >> From reading the record, approximately -- JD is with
12:53:36 Alsabbagh engineering.
12:53:37 He was at the hearing.
12:53:39 Approximately three years ago.
12:53:40 >> I think that's in the record, too, isn't it?
12:53:44 And when was our sign code enacted?
12:53:50 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Very soon after that sign being
12:53:52 erected, yes.
12:53:53 And I'm sorry for the confusion.
12:53:56 It's my understanding the photos I showed you were part
12:53:58 of that record so there is confusion here.
12:54:00 That's an area that I do apologize.
12:54:03 >> councilman?
12:54:06 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I am going to forgo my questions,
12:54:09 Mr. Chairman.
12:54:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?
12:54:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY:
12:54:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So Mr. Pressman, pretty much it's you
12:54:15 are raising the hate and moving to electronic?
12:54:19 >> The action here is electronic.
12:54:22 But the variance difficulty is that when you hit that
12:54:27 trigger you have to conform, and then we have the
12:54:29 hardship of difficulty within the immediate vicinity.
12:54:32 So it's a number of events that causes the hardship.
12:54:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: If you want to speak.
12:54:37 >>> I am going to try to state this another way.
12:54:39 The sign is already what it is and it's too high, too
12:54:42 close, too large.
12:54:44 When the sign code came in it made it legal
12:54:50 You can't put that on a nonconforming sign.
12:54:53 The sign has to be made conforming.
12:54:55 Then they can put it on.
12:54:57 That is the reason they came to the Variance Review
12:55:00 Board to make it a legal sign so they could attach the
12:55:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: There's an indication, Mr. Attorney,
12:55:08 that the roadway has been changed, if I looked at the
12:55:13 intersection, it's much wider turns.
12:55:16 Did that in any way have to do with making the sign not
12:55:21 legal now, because evidently it was some right-of-way
12:55:25 The way I looked at that photo real quickly.
12:55:29 The intersection now has changed.
12:55:31 >>> That factual issue, I can't address exactly.
12:55:37 Although if you look back at the code --
12:55:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm not looking at the code.
12:55:41 I'm looking at the picture that was evidence.
12:55:44 >>ERNEST MUELLER: Can you speak to that at all as to
12:55:47 whether they put some right-of-way?
12:55:49 >> This was the site plan by survey that was submitted
12:55:52 at the hearing.
12:55:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: But is that for this hearing?
12:55:55 I'm looking before the hearing, before the applicant
12:55:59 put an application to make this variance possible or
12:56:02 not possible.
12:56:04 That roadwork on 50th looks like it's not normal
12:56:08 like it is all over the city.
12:56:09 It's got wider turns on all of them.
12:56:12 So there had to be some right-of-way taken.
12:56:14 >> Unfortunately on the site plan they don't show the
12:56:17 previous setbacks.
12:56:18 They don't show the previous property lines.
12:56:21 So we can't comment because I don't know for a fact
12:56:25 that's going back to the right-of-way.
12:56:26 >> All right.
12:56:30 Thank you.
12:56:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions from council?
12:56:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
12:56:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
12:56:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
12:56:40 Opposed opposes?
12:56:40 What's the pleasure of council?
12:56:42 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, move to override
12:56:45 the VRB.
12:56:50 >> Second.
12:56:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilman --
12:56:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: State one of the reasons.
12:56:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Hardship.
12:57:01 >> Definitely a hardship.
12:57:02 We don't want to hamper a business.
12:57:04 The sign is there.
12:57:05 The only thing they are going to change is the contents
12:57:07 on the screen.
12:57:10 It's not here now but a message board is still going to
12:57:14 be there.
12:57:15 It's going to be electronic.
12:57:16 There's in a difference.
12:57:17 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm not going to support overturning
12:57:24 the Variance Review Board's determination.
12:57:29 They didn't see any hardship.
12:57:32 And I don't see any hardship either.
12:57:35 Based on the photograph that we saw that was part of
12:57:38 the initial record.
12:57:40 That's a big sign, very visible.
12:57:44 It's a lower height than the McDonald's arches, but if
12:57:52 they are the same height they block each other.
12:57:53 So I don't think the height has always got to be the
12:57:56 highest height for every sign.
12:58:02 This was a sign that was put up, knowing that we were
12:58:05 going to have more height -- lower height restrictions,
12:58:12 that we were about to change our code, more
12:58:14 restrictions on signage.
12:58:16 So they put it in at the last minute, knowing it would
12:58:19 become -- it would get in -- which is fine.
12:58:23 But then to then know that you were building something
12:58:27 that at the last minute, and then once it becomes --
12:58:33 the law changes and it's not legal but nonconforming to
12:58:38 decide that had you want to change it, I don't think
12:58:42 that -- I think this is the whole reason that they
12:58:45 spent years, this council spent years before our term
12:58:49 even started working on a sign code to reduce the
12:58:54 visual blight, to make sure that as signs changed, and
12:58:58 as businesses changed, we had less clutter, less sign
12:59:03 So I don't see a hardship.
12:59:07 I didn't see it in the transcript.
12:59:09 And I haven't seen it today.
12:59:11 I also think it's worth noting that people on the
12:59:14 Variance Review Board tried to help them to give them
12:59:19 the variance to put up the LED sign by saying, well, if
12:59:25 you would reduce the height of this sign, if you
12:59:27 conform, then we would be willing to give you the
12:59:30 variance for that, or allow to you do that.
12:59:32 So I think they have other options.
12:59:35 I don't see the problem.
12:59:37 I don't think they have a hardship.
12:59:41 >>CURTIS STOKES: Mr. Chairman.
12:59:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano, then councilman.
12:59:48 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: On page 23 of the minutes, it
12:59:54 says -- I would support instead of the motion for
12:59:59 denial, I would support a motion to bring the sign down
13:00:01 so that the bottom of the proposed electronic portion
13:00:06 not go any lower than the site try angle issue of five
13:00:12 What they are saying, they want that sign to be five
13:00:15 No one is ever going to see that sign with that traffic
13:00:17 It's going to hurt the gentleman's business.
13:00:24 >>CURTIS STOKES: I'll be brief.
13:00:26 I think we have to be consistent.
13:00:28 We are going to vote to support a business who ignored
13:00:33 the neighborhoods.
13:00:35 This isn't a vote against the VRB.
13:00:37 If we are going to vote to support small businesses in
13:00:39 the City of Tampa we have to be consistent.
13:00:41 We just made a vote 20 minutes ago to support a small
13:00:45 business in a different part of the city.
13:00:48 So we have to be consistent.
13:00:49 If we are going to support businesses on one side of
13:00:51 the city and not support businesses on the other of the
13:00:54 city, hence is the frustration of sitting on this City
13:00:58 We have to be consistent.
13:01:00 What's good for this neighborhood hags to be good for
13:01:01 this neighborhood.
13:01:02 So I am going to support it, in the spirit of
13:01:06 supporting small business.
13:01:07 I am going to support this item.
13:01:09 Thank you.
13:01:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other?
13:01:11 Yes, sir.
13:01:11 >> Your motion was to overturn the decision of the VRB?
13:01:21 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: To grant the appeal.
13:01:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Based on the hardship.
13:01:24 >> Yes.
13:01:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion and second.
13:01:28 Second by councilman Stokes.
13:01:30 All in favor of the motion signify by saying Aye.
13:01:32 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern voting no.
13:01:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
13:01:40 One last thing.
13:01:40 Council, I have a request from the Moffitt cancer.
13:01:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to receive and file.
13:01:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?
13:01:47 >> Did get a second?
13:01:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Miranda seconded.
13:01:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I have a request from the Moffitt
13:01:51 cancer center that we do a commendation to them for the
13:01:54 16th and 17th at their facility.
13:01:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
13:02:00 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
13:02:03 >> Any other business to come before us other than we
13:02:05 need to do the holiday greeting right after this.
13:02:07 Then we are through for the for the day.
13:02:10 If nothing else then, we stand adjourned.
13:02:14 (The meeting adjourned at 1:02 p.m.)
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