Tampa City Council
Thursday, January 13, 2011
6:00 p.m. Session
The following represents an unedited version of realtime captioning which
should neither be relied upon for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
The original of this file was produced in all capital letters and any variation
thereto may be a result of third party edits and software compatibility issues.
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the proceedings may need to
hire a court reporter.
18:02:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The Tampa City Council come to order.
18:02:47 We will have roll call.
18:02:53 [Roll Call Taken]
18:02:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me read into the record.
18:02:59 I have a memorandum from Councilwoman Capin.
18:03:01 Due to a previously scheduled event, I will be arriving
18:03:05 late to our 6 p.m. meeting.
18:03:09 I understand Councilwoman Mulhern has a conflict and
18:03:11 will be arriving late as well.
18:03:17 I have not received a memo, but do you have a memo?
18:03:17 >> Yes.
18:03:21 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Want me to put in a --
18:03:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Too late.
18:03:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have also from Councilwoman Mary
18:03:28 Mulhern, due to a previously scheduled meeting, please
18:03:31 be advised that I will be late in arriving to this
18:03:33 evening's Council meeting.
18:03:43 Okay, Council, my intent was to begin the meeting and
18:03:45 have Mr. Fletcher come before us because we don't have a
18:03:49 full Council to address the issue of the panhandling.
18:03:54 What I will do is wait until those other two Council
18:03:56 persons come and have Mr. Fletcher come.
18:03:59 I did have a meeting with him today relative to this
18:04:03 issue, and I think that we can have him come forward
18:04:06 later on this evening to bring us up to date and look at
18:04:11 maybe bringing that back to us maybe perhaps at our next
18:04:14 meeting but we will take that up at that time.
18:04:20 All right, we will now have staff come and update us
18:04:24 with where we are with our agenda this evening.
18:04:28 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Good even, Council, Abbye Feeley, Land
18:04:28 Development Coordination.
18:04:31 On your agenda, all items are ready to move forward with
18:04:36 the exception of Item Number 2, which cannot be heard.
18:04:40 That is actually the second misnotice for that case
18:04:44 under Chapter 27 rules that case will be deemed
18:04:48 withdrawn and notification will be sent to the
18:04:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: They can't bring that back then.
18:04:54 >> Can we have a motion to remove that from the agenda?
18:05:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.
18:05:04 Everything else is accurate.
18:05:07 Have all the witnesses stand and to be sworn.
18:05:09 If you were going to be speaking tonight, please stand
18:05:12 and be sworn.
18:05:17 [Swearing In of Witnesses]
18:05:18 >> Mr. Chairman.
18:05:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
18:05:21 >> I ask that all written communication relative to
18:05:23 tonight's hearing which have been available for public
18:05:26 inspection in City Council's office be received and
18:05:28 filed into the record by motion.
18:05:28 >> So moved.
18:05:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?
18:05:32 >> Second.
18:05:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
18:05:34 All in favor say aye.
18:05:39 >> A quick reminder if you have verbal communication
18:05:41 with a petitioner, his or her representative or member
18:05:44 of the public in connection with tonight's hearing,
18:05:47 please prior to action disclose the person or person or
18:05:49 entity of which that communication occurred and the
18:05:52 substance of that verbal communication and lastly, I am
18:05:54 putting a sign up there to remind you that you have to
18:05:55 be sworn.
18:05:58 And if you were going to be speaking, make sure you have
18:06:01 signed the sign-in sheet that is at the lectern outside
18:06:04 so the Clerk does have a record of your name on the
18:06:05 sign-in sheet.
18:06:07 Thank you.
18:06:10 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Good evening, Council, Abbye Feeley,
18:06:12 Land Development Coordination.
18:06:18 First item on your agenda is Z10-42 located at 2207 S.
18:06:19 Dale Mabry Highway.
18:06:22 The request for you this evening is from CG Commercial
18:06:27 general and RS-75 Residential Single Family to PD
18:06:29 Planned Development for restaurant with a drive-in
18:06:34 There are two waivers being requested to reduce the
18:06:38 required queueing lane distance, separation from
18:06:40 residential from 50 feet to 35 and allow Commercial
18:06:43 traffic access to a local street.
18:06:49 This is the old Famous Tate's site on South Dale Mabry
18:06:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Famous Tate site.
18:06:59 >>TONY GARCIA: Good evening, members of Council, Tony
18:07:01 Garcia, Planning Commission staff.
18:07:02 I have been sworn in.
18:07:05 The first meeting of the new year -- first night meeting
18:07:08 of the new year.
18:07:12 Happy New Year to everyone and Council.
18:07:14 The first case is located in the South Tampa Planning
18:07:18 District which is one of your five planning districts.
18:07:21 Known as the district of stability and offers
18:07:23 opportunities for infill and your policies and
18:07:25 opportunities within the comprehensive plan to talk
18:07:27 about fostering compatible infill.
18:07:31 Let me go ahead and show you the Future Land Use Map
18:07:33 very quickly.
18:07:37 As you can see on the map, the subject site is outlined,
18:07:41 and this is located on South Dale Mabry, South of
18:07:41 Kennedy Boulevard.
18:07:45 It is the use immediately to the east over here is Plant
18:07:48 High School to give you a pretty good idea of where the
18:07:52 site is located at in is Community Mixed Use 35 a land
18:07:54 use predominant land use along Dale Mabry highway.
18:07:58 This is Palma Ceia west to the west of the site, which
18:08:01 is traditionally stable, large lot neighborhood.
18:08:05 The CMU-35 allows primarily General Commercial and
18:08:07 Neighborhood Commercial serving uses, which is really
18:08:12 the predominant character along this segment of South
18:08:12 Dale Mabry.
18:08:14 The request is for general Commercial use with the
18:08:17 allowance of a drive-thru.
18:08:19 The applicant will have to meet the appropriate
18:08:23 buffering and screening from any adjacent uses in
18:08:26 proximity to the site, the applicant has met all these
18:08:28 requirements according to the plan development which
18:08:30 they are applying for you this evening.
18:08:34 To give you a little bit more context and then will
18:08:36 conclude my -- my analysis of this particular case.
18:08:38 You can see the residential character directly to the
18:08:41 west, but you can also see if you do have this character
18:08:44 along the -- this segment of South Dale Mabry for
18:08:48 specialty retail, low-density office, and General
18:08:50 Commercial and Neighborhood Commercial serving uses.
18:08:52 Request is complementary and consistent with the
18:08:55 character along South Dale Mabry for General Commercial
18:08:59 Planning Commission staff found the proposed request
18:09:00 consistent with the comprehensive plan.
18:09:09 Thank you.
18:09:12 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Just to piggyback a little bit on what
18:09:13 Tony had just said.
18:09:16 This is Commercial General which would allow for the
18:09:20 It could have come in as a special use for the drive-in
18:09:23 window to go with the restaurant; however, the reason
18:09:26 for the PD this evening is for the access to the local
18:09:39 street which is San Rafael to the north -- San Nicholas.
18:09:45 I need to do my own aerials from now on.
18:09:49 So the request this evening at 207 South Dale Mabry is
18:09:52 to allow for the development of a restaurant with a
18:09:53 drive-in which we just discussed.
18:09:58 It will be a one-story 3233-square-foot building with
18:10:03 870-square-foot outdoor seating area and a drive-thru
18:10:06 The site is .7 acres and surrounded by Commercial uses
18:10:09 to the north, south and east and residential along San
18:10:10 Nicholas to the west.
18:10:14 The building setbacks are proposed at north 50 feet,
18:10:18 south 40 feet, west 60 feet, and east 55 feet.
18:10:23 Setbacks for the drive through include north 98 feet.
18:10:25 south 31 and west 35 feet.
18:10:29 The proposed request requires 27 parking spaces and 36
18:10:33 spaces are being provided which consistent of 34
18:10:36 standard spaces and 2 ada spaces.
18:10:50 The proposed type is 24 feet.
18:10:53 The site is shown here in green.
18:10:57 As Tony did show you, it does have a mixed land use.
18:11:00 That section you can see this better on the aerial -- on
18:11:05 the zoning atlas is actually an R-6 6 land use.
18:11:08 That part contains parking -- parking and buffering but
18:11:11 does not retain anything else related to the Commercial
18:11:15 All elements of the Commercial use, building structure,
18:11:18 dumpster, et cetera have placed up in the front portion
18:11:23 which is the CMU portion and also the CG portion of the
18:11:30 Please disregard the yellow box.
18:11:34 The site is actually down at the San Nicholas Dale Mabry
18:11:40 Show you a couple of pictures.
18:11:44 This is looking South across San Nicholas at the
18:11:48 existing structure.
18:11:55 As Tony said, there is across from Plant High School,
18:11:56 another view looking south.
18:11:59 Looking north.
18:12:08 And across Plant, toward Plant, looking south and then
18:12:16 directly across the street -- directly east.
18:12:19 Council, there is one standing objection on this request
18:12:22 this evening, and that is the access to the local
18:12:26 Transportation is finding that inconsistent.
18:12:29 Melanie Calloway is here to discuss that this evening.
18:12:33 There is a need for an in home on San Nicholas to allow
18:12:35 for the services of solid waste.
18:12:37 Ben Schrader was also here from Solid Waste this
18:12:40 evening, but the request before you is for full access
18:12:45 on to San Nicholas; therefore, you will see on Page 2 of
18:12:46 the report that transportation finds the request
18:12:50 consistent as it permits Commercial access on the local
18:12:53 street and requests that the plan does be revised so
18:12:57 that that would be an in home for the Solid Waste
18:12:58 servicing of the site.
18:13:03 The second bullet on Page 2 that discusses the sidewalks
18:13:06 that have been accommodated on the site plan so that
18:13:08 modification will not need to be made.
18:13:11 Staff is available for any questions.
18:13:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions?
18:13:16 No questions?
18:13:26 >> Good evening.
18:13:35 Alex Dunzer representing the applicant.
18:13:36 We have members of the neighborhood association as well
18:13:39 from Palma Ceia west.
18:13:41 I would like to make a couple of statements before hand.
18:13:45 We had a neighborhood meeting with Palma Ceia west and
18:13:48 invited the neighbors that live in that area.
18:13:51 There were essentially three general objections that the
18:13:53 neighborhood made.
18:13:58 The first revolved around traffic, and that was
18:14:03 described by Abbye as being a request for full access on
18:14:06 San Nicholas street, the second was relative to
18:14:09 Some of the other businesses along -- along Dale Mabry
18:14:18 have older lighting structures and issues of light
18:14:22 And the third was concerns with noise and concerns of a
18:14:26 drive-thru restaurant creating nice through the actual
18:14:28 drive-thru mechanism.
18:14:31 We investigated all three of these issues and would like
18:14:33 to address them just briefly.
18:14:37 As to traffic, the site was specifically designed to
18:14:42 minimize the amount of traffic impact onto San Nicholas
18:14:45 and our traffic engineer is here as well to answer
18:14:48 specific questions as to the impact; however, if you
18:14:52 look at your site plan -- I have a small version here --
18:15:08 you can see that the entrance -- thank you.
18:15:15 You can see coming off of Dale Mabry -- coming from Dale
18:15:21 Mabry entrance tonight site and into the drive-thru is
18:15:24 directed -- here is an entrance.
18:15:26 Here is where the cars begin to queue.
18:15:32 This is the drive-thru lane, and then they are --
18:15:36 roundabout the building and they are exited back on to
18:15:36 Dale Mabry.
18:15:39 So the site is actually designed to minimize the amount
18:15:42 of traffic that flows out on to San Nicholas from the
18:15:45 That was the primary concern of the neighborhood in
18:15:50 terms of generating traffic onto San Nicholas.
18:15:52 As far as lighting is concerned, we have actually --
18:15:56 although not part of this rezoning application, we did
18:16:00 have a lighting engineer prepare a lighting plan and
18:16:04 shows there will be no light pollution on any of the
18:16:05 residential lots adjoining the property.
18:16:08 So it all would be contained within the site.
18:16:12 Finally, as to the noise generation from the drive-thru,
18:16:16 what we have investigated and contacted our vendors for
18:16:20 the actual drive-thru mechanism, the ordering mechanism.
18:16:24 It is a modern mechanism today where you place an order
18:16:27 and rather than have the order repeated to you by the
18:16:30 order taker, it is known in a digital display so that
18:16:33 you can verify he order yourself, which minimizes the
18:16:35 amount of conversation back and forth.
18:16:39 And so really the speaker itself will only be used if a
18:16:42 customer is ordering something has a question that can't
18:16:47 be answered by the display.
18:16:50 I would like to just make one more point with respect to
18:16:53 I think there has been quite a bit of discussion about
18:16:57 the general characteristics of this neighborhood.
18:17:02 We have done a survey of the businesses between San
18:17:03 Carlos and Neptune.
18:17:07 San Carlos being the side street of which Steak 'n Shake
18:17:12 is located and that is a signalized intersection
18:17:17 allowing traffic from Plant High School cross Dale Mabry
18:17:19 all the way to Neptune.
18:17:22 And on the west side of the street, which is the same
18:17:25 side we are on, there are 37 businesses.
18:17:26 Eight of those are restaurants.
18:17:28 And each of those businesses have full access to the
18:17:30 side streets they are on.
18:17:34 This site in itself today has not only full access but
18:17:39 has unregulated access.
18:17:45 No curve on San Nicholas and allows for head-on parking
18:17:47 and complete access and the same is true for our
18:17:51 businesses located to the north on San Nicholas.
18:17:54 If you have any questions, I will be happy to answer
18:17:57 Otherwise, there are some people from the neighborhood
18:17:59 that would like to speak.
18:18:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman?
18:18:03 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I have a number of questions.
18:18:06 I see -- how close --
18:18:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Your mic.
18:18:12 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: How close is the overhead canopy
18:18:14 in the back?
18:18:15 >> The overhead canopy?
18:18:18 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: You have an overhead canopy for
18:18:23 cars to park under.
18:18:26 >> I think if what you are referring to is -- is over
18:18:29 the drive-thru window, I believe?
18:18:32 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: No right there on the left side of
18:18:36 the -- says "overhead canopy."
18:18:42 A car underneath it in the drawing and it looks like it
18:18:46 is in a parking space.
18:18:49 >> If I may jump in, Abbye Feeley, Land Development,
18:18:52 that is actually the leader that points all the way
18:18:54 It is over the menu board.
18:18:57 I guess like would you experience maybe at a
18:19:02 Chick-fil-A or something there and inclement weather if
18:19:04 you roll down your window it will cover your window but
18:19:08 the canopy is just that triangular piece right there.
18:19:10 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Over the menu board?
18:19:11 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Yes.
18:19:14 There has to be clearance for Solid Waste truck to come
18:19:16 in so there is nothing that impedes them actually
18:19:18 traversing the property.
18:19:22 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I have a couple more questions.
18:19:25 What hours is that going to be open?
18:19:29 >> Right now it is scheduled to be open for lunch and
18:19:32 dinner up to around 10 to 11 p.m. depending on the day
18:19:33 of the week.
18:19:40 10 p.m. on Sundays and 11 p.m. on weekdays.
18:19:42 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: A McDonald's or a sit-down
18:19:46 >> A quick service restaurant so more similar to a
18:19:47 McDonald's, yes.
18:19:49 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: How many employees do you expect
18:19:50 to have there?
18:19:56 >> Expect to have 52 employees.
18:19:56 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Okay.
18:19:59 So the canopy will be over the menu board where the
18:20:01 people would place their order?
18:20:02 >> Yes, yes.
18:20:07 Thanks, Abbye for pointing that out.
18:20:11 That is to avoid for people being rained on and for the
18:20:14 menu board to be rained on.
18:20:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?
18:20:18 >>CURTIS STOKES: Mr. Chairman, the back of the
18:20:21 structure, sir, how close is it to the nearest
18:20:30 >> The structure, I believe -- 35 feet?
18:20:41 We have a measurement.
18:20:45 >>CURTIS STOKES: Was it 35 feet?
18:20:47 >> 35 feet from the residential.
18:20:50 >>CURTIS STOKES: One of the waivers being offered.
18:20:52 >> The request for the waiver, but the drive through
18:20:56 will be 35 feet from -- the drive-thru will are 35 feet
18:20:58 from the residential lot to our west.
18:21:00 We have the support of the property owner which happens
18:21:07 to be the seller in this case.
18:21:10 It is owned.
18:21:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
18:21:13 Any other questions?
18:21:14 Okay, thank you, sir.
18:21:17 We will take public comment from the public at this
18:21:20 Anyone wishing to be heard may come forward at this
18:21:24 Anyone wish to address this issue, wish to be heard to
18:21:26 come forward.
18:21:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Our unemployment will go --
18:21:31 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Our unemployment will go down 55
18:21:34 jobs, right?
18:21:37 >> I have been previously sworn in.
18:21:40 I am speaking on behalf of the few neighbors that live
18:21:43 on San Nicholas between Church and Dale Mabry.
18:21:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, state your name and address for
18:21:46 the record.
18:21:50 >> Helene Miller, 3815 San Nicholas Street, the rezoning
18:21:54 from CG to PD have us concerned for multiple reasons.
18:21:58 Yes, we did have a meeting in November with SDQ and the
18:22:01 architects and they left a lot of things open.
18:22:08 Number one was the sound barrier between the final fence
18:22:11 versus a block fence, the water drainage from the
18:22:14 Right now the drainage is all onto the street and
18:22:18 whenever it is raining, the streets are impossible.
18:22:21 The -- restricting traffic so it doesn't -- you know
18:22:25 people when -- we are concerned about the two-way
18:22:28 The entrance on San Nicholas Street.
18:22:31 When -- right now they told us that the driveway on that
18:22:34 road was only for garbage trucks.
18:22:37 Well, if it is only for the garbage trucks, why not put
18:22:40 a gate like they do at McDonald's and unlock it when the
18:22:43 garbage trucks need access and lock it back.
18:22:47 But now they are wanting full, complete access, and if
18:22:49 they are wanting something like that, there needs to be
18:22:53 some kind of clam shell restriction device to where the
18:22:58 traffic cannot be going to and from the residential area
18:22:59 off of Church Street.
18:23:03 We all know that when you are heading northbound on Dale
18:23:07 Mabry, you are not going to take Dale Mabry and go left.
18:23:09 You are going to go to the back streets and on through
18:23:12 We all do it, and everybody else does it.
18:23:16 The streets cannot handle the added traffic.
18:23:21 Most people, you know, right now, the streets are not
18:23:23 They are narrow.
18:23:27 There is potholes all over the place.
18:23:29 We can not -- and people are speeding right now along
18:23:31 that stretch of road.
18:23:32 Hours of operation.
18:23:36 During the meeting, they told us that it was only open
18:23:41 from 10 p.m. from Sunday through Thursday and only open
18:23:43 on 11:00 on Friday and Saturday.
18:23:47 Now I just hear him contradict himself and say Sunday
18:23:51 only until 10:00 and every other day it is until 11:00.
18:23:54 We -- they really need to restrict the hours of
18:23:56 operation and put in the deed restriction that the
18:23:59 drive-thru window should only be allowed to be open
18:24:04 during the business of hours of operation, so when this
18:24:08 concept restaurant, if it doesn't make it, you know, we
18:24:11 know how the economy is, we need that restriction so
18:24:16 that we don't have a McDonald's opening 24 hours or a
18:24:19 Steak 'n Shake and we have the problems in the
18:24:22 Water drainage.
18:24:25 We have such problems right now when we have heavy rains
18:24:28 that you can not drive down the street.
18:24:33 I have got a picture right here that shows from my house
18:24:37 over to the restaurant, and it is very narrow, and we
18:24:39 have potholes and cracks all up and down the road.
18:24:44 Here is another one with -- almost at the driveway they
18:24:49 want with potholes all over the place.
18:24:50 There is no sidewalks.
18:24:52 We are worried about public safety.
18:24:55 With all these additional cars from -- from a drive-thru
18:24:58 I have children.
18:25:01 There are children that walk and ride their bikes to
18:25:04 Plant High School, Coleman and these narrow roads, there
18:25:06 is no public -- we are concerned about the public
18:25:08 Property values.
18:25:10 That is another one of our big concerns.
18:25:15 It this is not done the proper way, and we allow another
18:25:20 Steak 'n Shake in the neighborhood.
18:25:24 I am getting extra time from --
18:25:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No, ma'am, I don't think it works that
18:25:33 Did they have someone sign the sheet?
18:25:34 >> They signed it there.
18:25:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We should have gotten that in advance.
18:25:39 Can we have that please?
18:25:42 >> The property values with this economy has went down
18:25:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: One second, ma'am.
18:25:50 >> You are Karen --
18:25:53 >> I am Helene Miller.
18:25:58 >> This form is for Karen --
18:26:03 I don't have a speaker waiver form for you.
18:26:03 >> Okay.
18:26:05 They did have it.
18:26:08 But I will let her continue on with the property value
18:26:09 problems we have.
18:26:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
18:26:20 Anyone else?
18:26:22 Next speaker, anyone else?
18:26:24 >> Good evening, Councilmembers.
18:26:30 My name is Michael McNabb, 2404 South Clark Avenue,
18:26:31 Tampa, 33629.
18:26:34 I am here this evening representing as President of the
18:26:39 Palma Ceia -- the Palma Ceia West Neighborhood
18:26:42 Association in property is within the borders of our
18:26:44 association and our Board of Directors have met with the
18:26:48 developers of the SDQ restaurant already.
18:26:52 I talked to the neighbors on San Nicholas, the concern
18:26:57 has to due with noise, litter, parking lot, traffic,
18:27:01 buffer and the drive-thru.
18:27:05 I am there talk of the traffic issues as our board feels
18:27:09 it is the most important problem address not addressed
18:27:10 by the developer.
18:27:14 We believe those who order through the drive-thru or eat
18:27:18 in will turn left rather than right at Dale Mabry.
18:27:22 Not a traffic light at Dale Mabry and San Nicholas as
18:27:23 there is at Steak 'n Shake.
18:27:27 At lunch and dinner time hard to enter Dale Mabry, the
18:27:31 high volume and extended hours will generate many cars
18:27:33 and trucks that will cut through the residential
18:27:38 neighborhood to access Church Avenue, Lois Avenue and
18:27:42 Henderson Boulevard to go Dale Mabry south.
18:27:45 Other businesses along Dale Mabry have side entrances
18:27:48 but this restaurant is supposed to be a fast-food
18:27:51 restaurant near a business district and busy high school
18:27:54 and will be open at 11:00 at night.
18:27:56 We are requesting a traffic control meeting on the San
18:28:00 Nicholas traffic so exiting traffic will turn east to
18:28:01 Dale Mabry highway.
18:28:06 We understand the Solid Waste truck will have to access
18:28:09 for the dumpster, the Steak 'n Shake and Boston Market
18:28:13 restaurant both have traffic medians which the city
18:28:16 refers to as pork chops at the side street exits.
18:28:20 If the traffic issue is addressed and resolved, the
18:28:24 Palma Ceia Neighborhood Association board could support
18:28:25 the rezoning.
18:28:27 Thank you.
18:28:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
18:28:42 >> Good evening, Council, my name is Karen Aguero, and I
18:28:46 am a property owner at 3819 West San Nicholas Street.
18:28:47 I have been sworn in.
18:28:50 I did fill out the form to request more time.
18:28:53 It may be a little repetitive, so I will try keep it as
18:28:55 short as possible.
18:28:59 I share my neighbors' concerns in allowing a change in
18:29:02 zoning to permit a drive-thru restaurant on the corner
18:29:05 of San Nicholas and Dale Mabry with an exit not only on
18:29:10 Dale Mabry but an exit on San Nicholas.
18:29:14 Remember, the issue at hand right now is we are looking
18:29:20 at allowing Commercial traffic access to a residential
18:29:23 That's what the issue is.
18:29:28 First and foremost, San Nicholas is residential.
18:29:31 We don't have the capacity to handle the additional
18:29:35 traffic that a drive-thru restaurant is going to bring.
18:29:37 As you have seen some of the photos, the cracked asphalt
18:29:41 and the pavement, we all know what the economy is like,
18:29:44 the city doesn't have extra money.
18:29:45 None of us do.
18:29:49 Adding the additional traffic to a residential street.
18:29:51 This street wasn't made for that.
18:29:54 The additional traffic is going to impact not only the
18:29:57 actual surface, but it is going to have an impact on the
18:30:00 residents with the additional noise, traffic, and the
18:30:03 safety of our children.
18:30:07 Please remember that the affects of -- of a zoning
18:30:11 change will stay with us.
18:30:16 So if PDQ -- and I hope they stay forever and it works
18:30:21 wonderful, but what if it doesn't?
18:30:23 Who follows in their footsteps?
18:30:26 This zoning change will be there.
18:30:28 Their hours they are providing us to sound somewhat
18:30:33 reasonable, but once again, what happens if they don't
18:30:35 stay with us?
18:30:39 This zoning change will.
18:30:43 We did have a meeting with them, and they were very
18:30:46 They followed up on what they said they would
18:30:48 investigate in June.
18:30:49 We are looking at a vinyl fence.
18:30:51 35 feet.
18:30:56 That may seem like forever, but when you are hearing
18:31:00 that order called out over and over again, 35 feet
18:31:02 becomes a very short distance.
18:31:03 A vinyl fence.
18:31:05 That is what is going to be the difference, and I
18:31:08 understand because of the trees and the greenery -- and
18:31:10 we all care about that, but that's the only I think that
18:31:12 can be put there.
18:31:16 But, again, I will go back to our issue of Commercial
18:31:21 traffic access to a residential street.
18:31:29 Captivate provided us with a traffic study that they
18:31:31 themselves have done and you have access to that as
18:31:35 In their conclusion to the traffic study and if you
18:31:39 listen to few specific sentences, they stated that
18:31:41 movement at the intersection of Dale Mabry and San
18:31:47 Nicholas would experience delays and vehicles exiting
18:31:53 the site continue to Dale Mabry would experience delays.
18:31:56 We are still in the traffic study.
18:31:59 All movements on San Nicholas at the project's secondary
18:32:03 driveway would have minimal delay.
18:32:05 So I ask you.
18:32:09 You are going to a fast-food restaurant, and you have a
18:32:13 couple of choices, are you going to go --
18:32:15 >> Sorry to interrupt.
18:32:18 I was out confirming with a city attorney in is miss
18:32:22 ague RO.
18:32:22 >> Yes.
18:32:24 >> Do you wish additional time.
18:32:26 >> I do.
18:32:30 >> Mr. Chairman, I wasn't here to do that out front.
18:32:34 Robert Dorn, are you present?
18:32:38 Barbara Dorn and you haven't spoken, Doris White, Stella
18:32:41 I see you there.
18:32:47 And Sebastian Calderoni.
18:32:49 Four additional minutes, is that what you are
18:32:52 >> Yes, please.
18:32:56 I apologize but not to be repetitive but to go back in
18:32:59 their findings in their study, once again the only
18:33:05 entrance that is going to have minimal delay is San
18:33:09 So which would you choose?
18:33:12 I am a safe driver.
18:33:15 It says so on my driver's license.
18:33:22 When I leave my house, if I am heading north on Dale
18:33:29 Mabry, I don't even -- even though I am a few houses
18:33:30 away, I go to church.
18:33:36 I head toward church, and make a right on Church, which
18:33:39 will eventually lead me to a light where I can access
18:33:39 Dale Mabry.
18:33:45 I think that is what everyone else is going to do too.
18:33:51 At a very minimum, we know it is going to impact our
18:33:56 I am in real estate still.
18:33:58 And we all know what has happened to our property
18:34:05 But having the impact of making this residential street
18:34:10 have Commercial traffic access, that's going to impact
18:34:13 our property as well.
18:34:18 At a very minimum, if you choose to approve this zoning,
18:34:23 I ask that you please consider requiring the exit on San
18:34:28 Nicholas to only allow right-hand turns and keep our
18:34:30 street and neighborhood safe.
18:34:38 I also ask you to remember this zoning, how lasting
18:34:40 impact it is going to stay with us.
18:34:45 Thank you very much.
18:34:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Next speaker.
18:34:48 Anyone else?
18:34:51 Yes, ma'am.
18:34:54 >>ABBEY FEELEY: Chairman Scott, Abbye Feeley, Land
18:34:57 Julia just asked me to quickly go through what the
18:34:59 development rights on the property are today under the
18:35:03 CG so we can put into perspective what the PD is really
18:35:09 granting today, that -- or requesting today could not be
18:35:10 allowed under the CG.
18:35:15 The CG property, CG has a setback of 10 foot all the way
18:35:20 around, so they can build the building at 10 foot at
18:35:21 the CG portion.
18:35:23 They can build the restaurant today without the
18:35:27 drive-thru and without the access on to San Nicholas.
18:35:30 Really the two items before you today under this PD are
18:35:33 the drive-thru window which either could have come
18:35:38 before you as a special use or as a PD, and the reason
18:35:42 is before you as a PD is to get the full access on to
18:35:43 San Nicholas.
18:35:45 So I just wanted to be clear that a restaurant could be
18:35:49 built there today, and it could be built at far less
18:35:53 setbacks than what is being proposed, and that the
18:35:56 reasons for the request before you today are the full
18:36:00 access on San Nicholas and the drive-thru window.
18:36:01 Just to be clear on that.
18:36:06 The other things was that we wanted to clarify that no
18:36:09 traffic analysis was required as part of this submittal
18:36:10 to the city.
18:36:13 So anything related to that we couldn't comment on at
18:36:14 this time.
18:36:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So that -- they could build today this
18:36:21 restaurant -- so the neighborhood understands, they can
18:36:23 build today and build all the way to ten feet.
18:36:27 And secondly, another issue is the drive threw, they
18:36:31 would not be permitted a drive threw.
18:36:31 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Right.
18:36:37 Under CG, a drive-in is a Special Use II, which is how
18:36:40 this application was originally discussed with the
18:36:43 applicant was to come in as a special use II for the
18:36:48 Because everything else could be built.
18:36:52 So the window would be a special use in the CG zoning
18:37:00 The special use criteria for a window requires access to
18:37:04 a collector or arterial which Dale Mabry is, and they
18:37:06 will meet that special use criteria.
18:37:09 It also requires 50 feet from residential.
18:37:12 That is the one waiver before you tonight which is the
18:37:14 50 down to 35 feet.
18:37:16 The last thing would be the access here.
18:37:20 If this property were to go directly to construction
18:37:24 services and build the restaurant under the CG, this
18:37:26 access would not be allowed.
18:37:29 That's why they are here requesting that in front of
18:37:33 It would be allowed as an in only for Solid Waste
18:37:36 purposes or if Solid Waste turned around and said we
18:37:39 have to exit and enter on San Nicholas for Solid Waste
18:37:41 purposes we would allow that access.
18:37:43 But other than that we would not.
18:37:46 I wanted to put those items where we are.
18:37:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda.
18:37:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I understand and appreciate your
18:37:53 comments, but when asking for those two waivers, if the
18:37:57 difference between what can be built now and why they
18:38:01 are coming in under this particular zoning is because
18:38:04 they understand -- I assume they understand that that
18:38:09 drive-in window means about 25% of the gross sales, and,
18:38:13 therefore, why lose that without doing the other.
18:38:15 So they are not -- my opinion, they are not going to do
18:38:19 the other because 25% is a great amount of money or
18:38:25 I mean, I am comparing this to Chick-fil-A and to the
18:38:30 good people across, Steak 'n Shake, and those windows
18:38:32 were always pretty well used.
18:38:34 I have used them myself, especially when I get the
18:38:40 coupons that goes with the Plant High basketball team.
18:38:43 You buy a $4 ticket, you get a free thing -- you have to
18:38:45 buy a big drink.
18:38:49 The big drink costs you as much as you pay for both of
18:38:52 I understand the thing -- the lighting.
18:38:53 I think that can be solved.
18:38:59 The noise through the drive-thru -- had any drive-in
18:39:06 window, things with that, vinyl, plastic fence, there
18:39:09 are some different types of noise retention things that
18:39:10 could be used.
18:39:14 You got cars that are parked at an angle, and put some
18:39:17 type of styrofoam or something that will make the noise
18:39:20 bounce back, that could be mitigated to some degree, the
18:39:25 sticking point for me is the traffic, making a right
18:39:33 instead of just used for sanitation purposes and go back
18:39:37 and that will be minimal use.
18:39:43 But when off right turn out of San Nicholas to Church
18:39:47 and all the way to Henderson Boulevard or the one
18:39:51 before, Nicholas I think it is -- Neptune, I mean.
18:39:54 And a problem that I would imagine human nature would do
18:39:57 So I don't know if they can address that and make
18:40:00 changes to that, but that's my main concern with the
18:40:03 And you said traffic was here to make statements here
18:40:09 >> Melanie Calloway is here.
18:40:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: To make statements.
18:40:12 >> Thank you for mentioning the lighting.
18:40:15 No lighting on the Commercial will spill into the
18:40:18 That is code requirement, and it will be required to
18:40:21 comply with that at the time of permitting.
18:40:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano.
18:40:26 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Any discussion about a block wall
18:40:29 where that vinyl wall is?
18:40:31 >> The block wall is required by code.
18:40:34 They went through a design exception with the Zoning
18:40:36 Adminstrator and got the fence approved.
18:40:39 So right now there is an approval for the fence.
18:40:41 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: There is a vinyl fence there, but
18:40:44 that's going to go if they get their permit?
18:40:47 >> No, they requested that through an administrative
18:40:50 review with Catherine Coyle the administrator with a
18:40:52 separate process.
18:40:54 So they were approved to use the vinyl fence and
18:41:01 landscaping in lieu of the masonry wall.
18:41:04 Large tree species on that site and on your site plan, a
18:41:08 cluster 26-inch live oak.
18:41:10 You will see at all three points -- and we typically
18:41:15 don't allow for a concrete masonry wall.
18:41:17 You have to do a foundation, and it is for a greater
18:41:22 portion of -- of that.
18:41:25 The Northwest corner of the site, off large specimen
18:41:29 There are three large specimen trees here and another
18:41:31 large specimen here.
18:41:33 You only would have walls in some of those foundations,
18:41:37 but that was approved administratively prior to the
18:41:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Capin and then Melanie to
18:41:48 come and make statements.
18:41:51 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Melanie is Transportation?
18:41:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
18:41:54 >>YVONNE CAPIN: That's what I was reading there,
18:41:54 transportation --
18:41:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You want to hear from her first?
18:41:59 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes, thank you.
18:42:08 >> Melanie Calloway, Transportation.
18:42:09 I have been sworn.
18:42:13 Let me mark on Abbye's drawing here.
18:42:17 The -- the minimal driveway you can have for this site
18:42:22 will be an entrance-only off of San Nicholas.
18:42:26 It would still give the petitioner the ability to enter
18:42:29 his site, but will not allow traffic to go back into the
18:42:32 It would help Solid Waste to be able to accommodate what
18:42:40 they need also to service the site.
18:42:45 A 16-foot driveway as a left-in only is an option for
18:42:48 them help in would still like to access on that local
18:42:53 So they -- today, if they were to go through
18:42:56 construction services and say they had -- they were able
18:42:59 to do this, they would be able to have that entrance
18:43:03 home left-in for Solid Waste and all vehicles, and this
18:43:07 would not allow the traffic to go back into the
18:43:16 >> A left-in home from Dale Mabry?
18:43:21 >> Come in from Dale Mabry.
18:43:24 Come in make a right from Dale Mabry -- or a left.
18:43:25 Drive west.
18:43:30 And then make a left-in only into the drive.
18:43:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That is the shortest point to the
18:43:35 entrance to that location from Dale Mabry, correct?
18:43:38 Because -- my experience in the past has been that we do
18:43:41 these things with well intentions, the department and
18:43:43 the city and the neighborhood agrees, and then you have
18:43:47 the good folks that don't care.
18:43:53 And they will go over 8-inch, 10-inch concrete barrier
18:43:58 like Sherman went through Atlanta.
18:43:59 >> Yes.
18:44:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: To put up -- they call them bats.
18:44:06 Look about this high and did it on spruce Street and
18:44:08 somebody has a glass of water too much and they run
18:44:11 right over the bats and destroy them.
18:44:13 So it is a very difficult thing to do.
18:44:15 >> Yes, yes, you are correct.
18:44:17 We can design it as a left in only.
18:44:20 We can raise it with a curb.
18:44:23 Most people would not do that maneuver; however, it
18:44:27 deters but do not prohibit the left back into the
18:44:31 It does deter, but, of course, it does not prohibit that
18:44:38 If somebody wants to go over it, they can go over it.
18:44:40 >>YVONNE CAPIN: It is not advisable to go over it
18:44:43 because your car could get quite damaged going over one
18:44:44 of those.
18:44:47 >> I agree, I agree.
18:44:50 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
18:44:50 >> You are welcome.
18:44:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions by Council?
18:44:54 We have rebuttal.
18:44:57 Five minutes.
18:45:01 >> Yes, thank you.
18:45:05 I think there is a couple of things that -- to point
18:45:08 But there are a couple of things that were brought up,
18:45:11 and I will address those quickly because I think that
18:45:14 they were perhaps inaccurate.
18:45:17 As far as the drainage concern.
18:45:42 Of course this property is currently -- you see here is
18:45:47 existing and proposed building footprint.
18:45:51 What it results in is 61% reduction in the actual
18:45:53 footprint of the building.
18:45:58 We also are planning on increasing green space by 80%.
18:46:03 So as far as drainage is concerned and the impact on the
18:46:05 neighborhood, currently I think it is certainly a
18:46:08 positive impact.
18:46:14 Our goal, however have to work with the neighborhood and
18:46:15 find a solution.
18:46:18 The noise -- we looked into various possibilities for
18:46:21 the fence and including I think it was mentioned a
18:46:25 styrofoam buffer or something of that nature.
18:46:28 We are not opposed to do a block wall if what the
18:46:31 neighborhood would like a block wall.
18:46:33 We have been told that will not increase the noise
18:46:36 We have retained the ability to do landscaping on the
18:46:38 left side of the wall.
18:46:41 We have obtained an easement along that side to do
18:46:45 additional landscaping off-site that will be a better
18:46:46 buffer of noise.
18:46:50 I think the key issue is traffic.
18:46:54 And currently the property is under contract with the
18:46:59 requirement that we are able to -- that we are able to
18:47:02 have access on to San Nicholas.
18:47:05 The project simply isn't feasible unless we have some
18:47:07 egress access on to San Nicholas.
18:47:13 I would like to point out, it was referenced a few times
18:47:14 we were talking about Commercial traffic continue to San
18:47:18 Commercial traffic is allowed on San Nicholas at the
18:47:21 existing use and at the use across the street.
18:47:24 As I pointed out before, there are seven restaurants and
18:47:27 28 businesses that have traffic access on to the
18:47:28 residential streets.
18:47:31 Our goal, however have not to argue that point.
18:47:35 We are prepared to work with staff further to see if we
18:47:40 can't develop a right out only that will direct all
18:47:46 traffic toward Dale Mabry and allow for the entrance of
18:47:50 Solid Waste into the site from the left.
18:47:53 And that could be achieved, although we don't have a
18:47:56 final design that staff has seen, that could be achieved
18:48:01 by developing a pork chop or some sort of an obstruction
18:48:04 that would prevent people or certainly discourage people
18:48:05 from taking a left.
18:48:08 It is true that people can drive over curbs, but
18:48:12 certainly that is the best that we can do certainly to
18:48:15 create an obstruction that will avoid that.
18:48:19 Also, with respect to the comments that weren't actually
18:48:22 raised today but in all fairness was raised by the
18:48:23 neighborhood -- the neighborhood association is that
18:48:27 people might turn from San Nicholas into the site and
18:48:31 directly attempt to get into the drive-thru lane.
18:48:35 So, be there, circumventing our design of having people
18:48:37 come off Dale Mabry if they want to get in the
18:48:38 drive-thru lane.
18:48:42 and in order to address that, we have proposed -- and
18:48:45 difficult to see here -- but we have proposed some
18:48:48 flexible barriers that would -- would be lane dividers
18:48:51 so that people wouldn't be able to actually enter the
18:48:54 drive threw from the San Nicholas entrance, but they
18:49:00 would have to come from the east side building.
18:49:03 Fringe -- I have just a very brief conversation with
18:49:07 some of the neighbors this evening, and I think that
18:49:11 there is general support for the concept of a right out
18:49:16 only versus -- versus a full access left out and right
18:49:26 And I think the final note, there was one question
18:49:32 relative to the jobs created by this particular project.
18:49:35 And I think it is worth noting what is there today
18:49:39 versus what we propose, the current site as you know is
18:49:43 the former Famous Tate site is vacant so no employees.
18:49:47 We anticipate having a total of 52 employees engaged in
18:49:49 this business.
18:49:52 Obviously no sales tax revenue from the site today.
18:49:55 We anticipate significant sales tax revenue.
18:50:00 And the existing tax base is just over $1 million.
18:50:02 We estimate that will be roughly $2 million after this
18:50:03 site is completed.
18:50:08 And the cost of the site itself, the demolition and
18:50:11 construction are estimated at about $1.2 million.
18:50:20 That is direct influx of money into the City of Tampa.
18:50:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me ask you this.
18:50:38 Sales tax, 7% -- 1 40,000 would be --
18:50:40 >> 2 million a year.
18:50:45 >> Just by comparison --
18:50:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Or $6,000 a day.
18:50:50 >> Your math is perhaps better than mine, but the
18:50:54 average Chick-fil-A does $2.3 million to $2.4 million a
18:51:02 It is slightly less than that.
18:51:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?
18:51:10 Yes, Councilwoman Capin and Councilman Caetano.
18:51:17 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Melanie Calloway.
18:51:23 I live real near the CVS on Henderson and San Rafael and
18:51:29 has a median in the street, and you can tell a lot of
18:51:34 cars have been damaged there, but it has done a lot to
18:51:39 stop the traffic from going back into the neighborhood.
18:51:42 What about that?
18:51:46 >> Melanie Calloway, transportation.
18:51:53 That really famous median that really started this whole
18:51:55 There is a long story.
18:51:56 We did provide that in that location.
18:51:59 The only problem we can't do that in this location
18:52:02 because Solid Waste needs the entire street to maneuver.
18:52:04 We can channelize the driveway.
18:52:06 I believe that petitioner has two options.
18:52:12 He can either channel it as a left in only, 16 feet wide
18:52:15 as a left in only for all traffic.
18:52:16 And curb.
18:52:20 Or second option is to have a curbed channelized
18:52:25 driveway 22 feet wide for two-way traffic, left in,
18:52:26 right out.
18:52:32 That is the minimum that we need for Solid Waste to
18:52:36 But 22 feet is the widest that driveway can be, because
18:52:42 I -- any wider than, it makes it easy to maneuver around
18:52:44 the curb channelized driveway.
18:52:48 That is what I recommend, one of those two options.
18:52:49 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
18:52:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano.
18:52:55 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: So San Nicholas would be strictly
18:53:00 for the trash truck to come in, correct?
18:53:01 >> You have two options.
18:53:03 You have a left in only.
18:53:05 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Coming in.
18:53:06 >> Right.
18:53:07 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Or a right coming out.
18:53:10 >> You can have it one way, just left in only.
18:53:14 For all the traffic just left in only.
18:53:16 Or a left in right out.
18:53:19 Channelize s it right back to Dale Mabry.
18:53:20 You can channelize it.
18:53:22 >> Come in on the left.
18:53:25 Make a left and leave with a right.
18:53:25 >> That's correct.
18:53:27 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: You can have a sign for a
18:53:28 left-hand turn.
18:53:30 >> They can sign it and also raised curbing.
18:53:33 Again will deter people from making that but will not
18:53:36 eliminate people from doing it because they can violate
18:53:36 a sign at a curb.
18:53:41 It is not recommended, but it is possible if you try.
18:53:44 Most people would not, some will.
18:53:46 So just take that into consideration.
18:53:48 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I know I just had a McDonald's
18:53:49 near me --
18:53:53 >> This will be open to -- the left in and the left in
18:53:54 right out is for all traffic.
18:53:57 But that is the minimum we need to accommodate Solid
18:54:01 But will accommodate all traffic, left in, right out or
18:54:02 just left in.
18:54:05 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: As far as the noise, the
18:54:07 McDonald's near me is in a Commercial district.
18:54:11 They just went to two drive-in windows.
18:54:14 So there are two spots where they order and they order
18:54:18 verbally over the intercom system, and they both go to
18:54:20 the one window to pick up.
18:54:22 And it is not noisy.
18:54:25 And this place does $4 million a year.
18:54:31 And I know there is fear, but I look at the economy.
18:54:34 These restaurants are busier than some of your finer
18:54:38 You go to McDonald's, and you see family there is
18:54:41 eating, and that's what is going to happen here, and I
18:54:44 am looking at 55 jobs.
18:54:45 That's a lot.
18:54:49 And I am sure that residents could work with the owners
18:54:51 of this place if there are problems.
18:54:54 That is my opinion.
18:54:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I never knew there was a finer
18:54:58 restaurant than McDonald's.
18:55:02 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Especially if you have a coupon.
18:55:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other question by Council?
18:55:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You know I try to read body
18:55:15 And I am not the greatest at that time, but I don't
18:55:17 think the neighborhood is totally against this.
18:55:19 I think they are apprehensive about the traffic.
18:55:20 That's what I see.
18:55:24 That is what I sense from here.
18:55:30 I think the -- what is it left out only.
18:55:32 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Right out.
18:55:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Right out.
18:55:35 That is what happens when you are a right-hander.
18:55:39 Right out.
18:55:44 And I think it would be acceptable, but if we can come
18:55:47 to some agreement on what we can do for more protection,
18:55:49 because I have seen these things and, yeah, Corvette is
18:55:52 not going to go over that because there won't be a
18:55:55 Corvette at the other end, but nowadays more people
18:56:04 drive these higher SUVs, 250s and 150s, high-rise things
18:56:06 and they can go over anything.
18:56:09 And they can do that with some type of higher,
18:56:13 protective paddles or I don't know what you call them.
18:56:16 I wouldn't be opposed to it because I think that would
18:56:19 add protection that the neighborhood needs.
18:56:23 The wall, although I haven't seen a wall that has a
18:56:26 combination of both, I think the petitioner said there
18:56:31 were not opposed to putting a solid brick wall, and
18:56:35 maybe want circumference of the root of the trees that
18:56:37 could have the vinyl there.
18:56:39 And it would satisfy, I think, both parties.
18:56:40 That is just my suggestion.
18:56:44 It doesn't even in everyone has got to agree to that,
18:56:47 but I think if we have a nice decorative wall and then a
18:56:50 vinyl to protect the tree roots, it would be certainly
18:56:54 much more eye pleasing.
18:56:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I guess my question is does the
18:56:59 petitioner want to continue to work those details out
18:57:02 with the neighborhood so that there is a clear
18:57:05 My only apprehension at this point is many times we try
18:57:08 to do these things on the cuff, and they are not quite
18:57:14 So do you want to continue this to work with the
18:57:27 neighborhood to work out the specifics on that?
18:57:29 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Abbye Feeley, Land Development.
18:57:32 I will let the petitioner speak, but sounds like they do
18:57:34 want the full access.
18:57:37 They -- if we can channelize it to have the left in
18:57:40 right out and have it channelized and signed, that we
18:57:43 can make that modification in between first and second
18:57:47 Grown that will mean the most to the neighborhood or
18:57:50 what the pleasure of Council is, but as Melanie stated
18:57:53 those two options, the left in, channelized, or the left
18:57:55 in, right out channelized.
18:57:56 It would look --
18:58:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I am reading body language too, and I
18:58:01 am seeing, no.
18:58:02 Heads are shaking no.
18:58:10 So that's why I am suggesting maybe a continuance or at
18:58:13 least that would give the petitioner a little more time
18:58:16 unless they think they can -- excuse me one second.
18:58:18 Thank you.
18:58:20 Perhaps if they want to meet with them for a few minutes
18:58:24 outside, we can bring this back a little later.
18:58:26 The only other option at this point, if they are willing
18:58:26 to do that.
18:58:29 If they are willing to do that.
18:58:32 >> If the neighborhood is, we are certainly willing to
18:58:33 do that.
18:58:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Can we have a spokesperson for the
18:58:37 neighborhood that can come forward and speak on the
18:58:43 Come speak on the record, please.
18:58:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We have a room back here that you
18:58:46 can sit at.
18:58:48 The rent is not too high.
18:58:52 >> I don't know, we are all trying to generate revenue.
18:58:55 Again, I am Sharon.
18:58:57 I have been sworn in and I will be hope that meet and
18:58:59 try to come up with an answer.
18:59:00 I have a question.
18:59:03 Am I allowed to ask the question?
18:59:06 In one of the solutions that we are looking at, we are
18:59:11 discussing putting in the pork chop or the median that
18:59:14 directs the traffic.
18:59:18 And I think that would be their responsibility to put
18:59:21 that in their plan, correct?
18:59:25 So what happens five years from now?
18:59:27 What happens ten years from now?
18:59:29 What happens three years from now when a different
18:59:32 business comes in.
18:59:36 Is that median or direction part of the zoning or -- you
18:59:39 know, can that go away when this business goes?
18:59:42 And I think that is a question we all have.
18:59:44 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Abbye Feeley, Land Development
18:59:48 What is before us tonight is a site plan-controlled
18:59:51 This lifts every other regulation and this site plan
18:59:55 then becomes the governing regulation nor property.
18:59:57 If it shows a pork chop --
19:00:00 >> It is a pork chop.
19:00:02 >> There better be pork on the property.
19:00:05 So you guys would like to discuss outside for a couple
19:00:06 of minutes.
19:00:14 >> Sure.
19:00:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So what we will do, we need to make a
19:00:18 motion to continue this.
19:00:23 >> Do it by unanimous consent to hold it.
19:00:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Want to make sure we are legally
19:00:29 If you can go out and discuss it and come back.
19:00:34 The next case, item 3.
19:00:36 >> The hearings open this evening, were they actually --
19:00:38 there was no motion?
19:00:43 Mr. Chairman, I just want to so the record is clear move
19:00:44 to open the public hearings.
19:00:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to open the public hearings.
19:00:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: is there a second?
19:00:53 Moved and seconded, all those in favor signify by saying
19:00:57 Item 3.
19:01:01 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Item 3, Council, Land Development.
19:01:09 Item 3 on your agenda is z 10-25 located at 2612 north
19:01:13 Tampa street, the request is from a RM-16 multifamily
19:01:17 zoning district to PD, planned development for retail
19:01:19 convenience goods and shopper goods and business
19:01:25 professional office.
19:01:30 There are two waivers associated with your request this
19:01:35 Someone to reduce the vehicle usage buffer along Euclid
19:01:38 from 8 feet to 5 feet, and the second is to reduce the
19:01:48 required parking from 38 spaces to 15 spaces.
19:01:51 >>TONY GARCIA: Good evening, members of Council, once
19:01:53 again, Tony Garcia, Planning Commission staff.
19:01:58 I have been sworn in.
19:02:02 I would like to convey to you a few pertinent facts as
19:02:03 it relates to the comprehensive plan.
19:02:06 The first thing that this particular site is located
19:02:10 within the central planning district on your vision map
19:02:11 for the comprehensive plan.
19:02:14 This is one of the areas that offers one of the greatest
19:02:17 amounts of potential opportunity for economic
19:02:19 development and growth and job opportunity in the City
19:02:22 of Tampa.
19:02:25 Zooming down a little more specifically, I want to show
19:02:28 you the subject site that we are looking at this
19:02:31 This project has gone a -- through a little bit of an
19:02:33 evolution, so bear with me on my math.
19:02:37 I am showing two parcels here -- actually these are two
19:02:38 parcels here.
19:02:39 They have been eliminated.
19:02:41 They were part of the original project but they are not
19:02:45 We are talking about this brown piece of property over
19:02:47 here there are particular square in is located in the
19:02:48 Tampa heights area.
19:02:51 This is located on the Northwest corner of the
19:02:54 intersection of Columbus Drive and Tampa Street.
19:02:57 The old Jefferson High School used to be over here many,
19:03:00 many years ago.
19:03:03 So there is -- as far as your land use categories, there
19:03:05 is community Commercial 35 which allowing Commercial
19:03:07 intensive uses and general Commercial uses.
19:03:11 This is CMU-35 which allowing general Commercial uses
19:03:15 and R-20 which allows considering of low density
19:03:18 neighborhood Commercial serving uses and higher
19:03:20 intensity residential types of uses.
19:03:23 The request before you this evening is for a PD that
19:03:26 will allow a mixture of uses that are nonresidential in
19:03:30 nature on a site which currently houses one of the
19:03:32 locations for -- for the veterans.
19:03:36 And this is going to continue to operate in some
19:03:38 capacity for the veterans in addition to, I believe,
19:03:41 some ancillary uses supporting retail uses that will
19:03:44 help generate some additional revenue for -- for the
19:03:47 veterans for this particular site.
19:03:50 The request is going to be similar -- complementary as
19:03:53 far as the new design they are going to put here will be
19:03:56 an asset to the Tampa Heights area, the design also will
19:04:00 be consistent as far as scale and character to the
19:04:03 existing surrounding built environment.
19:04:05 Planning Commission staff found the proposed request
19:04:07 consistent with the comprehensive plan.
19:04:12 Thank you.
19:04:15 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Abbye Feeley, Land Development.
19:04:20 As Tony has mentioned, this is located in the Tampa
19:04:21 Heights area.
19:04:24 The request before you tonight is for a two-story,
19:04:27 10,545-square-foot Commercial building, including
19:04:31 business professional office and two types of retail,
19:04:34 convenience goods and shopper goods, the proposed
19:04:36 building is oriented to north Tampa Street with the
19:04:41 access off of Euclid and parking toward the rear of the
19:04:46 lot, the PD setbacks proposed at 5 on all sides for --
19:04:49 at 0 on all sides for maximum development.
19:04:51 It is not set back at 0 of all sides.
19:04:53 It is 0 feet on the north and east.
19:04:55 2.4 feet on the south.
19:04:57 And approximately 40 feet on the west.
19:05:02 The proposed development requires 38 spaces and 15 are
19:05:02 being provided.
19:05:05 A waiver is being requested for the deficiency.
19:05:08 Elevations have been provided and show the proposed
19:05:12 building with a Mediterranean revival-style
19:05:15 Let me go ahead and show you where we are.
19:05:18 Also, Council, just to let you know, I did provide with
19:05:25 you a letter dated December 10 from the Tampa Heights
19:05:32 Civic Association in support of the project.
19:05:34 The property known green.
19:05:38 Euclid to the north, Tampa to the east, Highlands a
19:05:43 little bit further over to the west, and Columbus is the
19:05:45 next street to the south.
19:05:47 There is a small alley that you will see in the pictures
19:05:50 is unimproved that is located along the south.
19:05:53 We did do iterations of this project that had access off
19:05:54 of that alley.
19:05:56 D.O.T. would not allow for that.
19:06:00 They -- because of the queueing for Columbus, so that
19:06:04 access has been removed and you will see on your plan
19:06:07 today there is full access off of Euclid.
19:06:16 Here is an aerial of the site.
19:06:21 Some pictures of the site, the existing building that is
19:06:30 on there today in is from Euclid looking south.
19:06:33 There is a chain-link fence there and then the building
19:06:34 is there.
19:06:42 This is from Tampa street looking west on Euclid.
19:06:46 This is the alley on the south, shows an unimproved
19:06:56 This is the northeast corner of Euclid and Tampa street.
19:06:58 This is the alley on the left.
19:07:03 This is south of the property at the corner of Columbus
19:07:10 and Tampa, the southeast corner.
19:07:19 And east across Tampa street.
19:07:22 That couple of modifications that are needed for the
19:07:25 site plan between first and second reading, the first is
19:07:27 the waiver for the parking which was omitted.
19:07:32 The second is the parking table needs to be adjusted
19:07:35 right now is including some off-street spaces and those
19:07:40 can't be counted and we need to go ahead and get that
19:07:43 revised and the rendering on the second page of the site
19:07:46 plan show that access off the alley that was no longer
19:07:52 Would like to see those things get revised and second,
19:07:57 transportation does find the parking request to be
19:07:59 There are some parking reduction.
19:08:02 The petitioner I think will speak to some alternatives
19:08:06 to parking that they are looking into for this project.
19:08:08 With those modifications in between first and second
19:08:11 readings, staff would find it consistent.
19:08:13 I have provided you with a revision sheet dated today
19:08:17 that outlines those items that do need to be modified in
19:08:18 between first and second reading.
19:08:20 I have discussed those with the petitioner and believe
19:08:22 they are amenable to those as well.
19:08:25 Staff is available for any questions.
19:08:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?
19:08:32 >> Good evening, Mr. Chairman and Councilmembers.
19:08:37 I am Patricia Ramos are an architectural and engineering
19:08:43 firm located at 2285 in Brandon, Florida.
19:08:47 My partner gil Ramos who will be assisting me tonight.
19:08:48 We have been sworn in.
19:08:51 We have been privileged to be selected by the marine
19:08:53 corp league.
19:08:55 I am here tonight to present this project and a series
19:08:57 of additional exhibits to review with you.
19:08:59 I would like to hand them out now.
19:09:01 This information is included in the public record, but
19:09:05 the formatting has been adjusted for clarity.
19:09:09 It is our incident that this project be a significant
19:09:10 contribution to the community.
19:09:12 As the project designer and architect, I will be
19:09:16 presenting the details of the project; however, the
19:09:21 marine corps league have representatives who can nil any
19:09:23 information that I leave out canned assist in answering
19:09:24 your questions.
19:09:27 The zoning request before you tonight is the rezoning of
19:09:32 the property 2612 north Tampa street, RM-16 to a PD with
19:09:33 restrictive uses.
19:09:37 Retail sales convenience goods, shoppers good, office,
19:09:42 business, professional for the marine corps league and
19:09:45 other organizations and including space for --
19:09:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here in opposition to this
19:09:52 Anyone here in opposition to this application?
19:09:53 I don't see opposition.
19:09:56 You received a question from the Tampa Heights.
19:09:59 They only had issue relative to residential in is not a
19:10:02 So just speak to that please.
19:10:03 >> Yes.
19:10:07 We removed the residential component and the
19:10:11 neighborhood seemed satisfied with that.
19:10:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay --
19:10:14 >> And wrote a letter of approval for us.
19:10:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So it is related to a Commercial
19:10:19 development as outlined in the petition.
19:10:20 >> Yes.
19:10:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do you agree to all of the revisions as
19:10:23 required by staff?
19:10:24 >> Yes, sir.
19:10:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So you all agree to that.
19:10:28 What is your pleasure.
19:10:30 I don't see anyone else -- unless you all have
19:10:37 Do you have a question?
19:10:45 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Miss Feeley, you -- you alluded to --
19:10:46 with the parking.
19:10:53 And that the petitioner had some alternative or
19:10:57 suggestion for different --
19:10:59 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Yes, Abbye Feeley, Land Development.
19:11:02 I will let miss Ramos speak to that.
19:11:04 Let me explain from our perspective, zoning perspective.
19:11:07 There is always an opportunity for applicants to work
19:11:09 with neighboring properties to get additional parking;
19:11:14 however, because sometimes those agreements ten years
19:11:17 from now go away, we always put the waiver on the plan
19:11:21 down to what they have on-site so they are never in
19:11:24 violation in and of themselves, and they have to have
19:11:26 that agreement in order to operate.
19:11:29 So we do acknowledge that waiver of what they actually
19:11:33 do have, and then it is for them to work with neighbors
19:11:36 properties or property owners in order to get some
19:11:45 additional off-site parking.
19:11:49 >> In the last few days the Marine Corps league have
19:11:54 contracted with the site adjacent.
19:11:56 Can we go to the picture.
19:12:01 This is -- this is the adjacent site at 106 west Euclid
19:12:04 Street, Avenue.
19:12:07 And they have entered into a contract to purchase the
19:12:10 property for using the existing building during
19:12:13 construction as their temporary offices.
19:12:19 And then providing parking to make up the deficiency.
19:12:36 I have a conceptual parking plan.
19:12:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You need to turn it around 180 degrees.
19:12:53 Thank you.
19:12:56 >> This is the additional parking that we see here and
19:13:02 can accommodate a minimum of 10 compact spaces that
19:13:05 raises our parking count to 25.
19:13:06 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
19:13:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions.
19:13:12 >>CURTIS STOKES: I want to make a motion that we move
19:13:12 the item.
19:13:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion to close.
19:13:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Second.
19:13:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
19:13:22 All in favor signify by saying aye.
19:13:25 Councilman Stokes.
19:13:27 >>CURTIS STOKES: thank you, sir.
19:13:29 Mr. Chairman, an ordinance rezoning property in the
19:13:34 general vicinity of 2612 north Tampa street particularly
19:13:38 described in section one from zoning district RM-16
19:13:41 residential multifamily to PD planned development
19:13:44 retail, convenience goods and shopper goods and office
19:13:48 business professional providing an effective date.
19:13:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And included in that motion would be
19:13:52 all of the revisions as outlined by staff.
19:13:54 Revisions and conditions.
19:13:57 Is there a second.
19:13:59 You made a motion.
19:14:01 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I will second it.
19:14:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Those in favor signify by saying aye.
19:14:09 >> Motion carried with Caetano, Miller and Mulhern being
19:14:11 absent at vote.
19:14:21 Second adoption reading at February 3 at 9:30 A.M.
19:14:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 4.
19:14:35 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Item 4, Council, Abbye Feeley, Land
19:14:39 Development, z 10-44 located at 3710 W. Azeele Street,
19:14:43 the request is PD planned development institutional and
19:14:46 administrative to PD planned development office, medical
19:14:52 and CN uses.
19:14:59 Not sure where Mr. Garcia -- not sure where Mr. Garcia
19:15:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Keep moving.
19:15:03 >>ABBYE FEELEY: I wanted to note real quickly that this
19:15:08 piece of property was actually part of a PD that was
19:15:10 originally approved in 1984.
19:15:16 It was a four-lot PD that went from Sterling west with
19:15:18 the exception of one piece of property which was
19:15:24 adjacent to Dale Mabry on that side.
19:15:28 So what is before you tonight is some modifications to
19:15:31 that PD which exceeds what we can approve
19:15:34 That is where we are tonight.
19:15:37 There are a couple of waivers with that.
19:15:40 Is to allow a reduction in the east buffering for the
19:15:43 office use from 3 feet to 2 feet.
19:15:46 The second is to allow reduction in the sign setback
19:15:49 from 5 feet to 1 feet for the existing sign.
19:15:53 The third is to allow a reduction in the south buffer
19:15:56 abutting single family residential from 16 feet to 7
19:16:01 feet and to allow the six-foot-high wood fence to remain
19:16:04 lieu of the required masonry wall.
19:16:07 And the last is to reduce the required number of parking
19:16:16 spaces from 17 to 14.
19:16:19 >>TONY GARCIA: Good evening, members of Council, Tony
19:16:20 Garcia once again.
19:16:21 Planning Commission staff.
19:16:22 I have been sworn.
19:16:25 Just a couple of points as it relates to the
19:16:25 comprehensive plan.
19:16:28 This site is also located within the central planning
19:16:33 district for the City of Tampa.
19:16:35 As far as some context.
19:16:39 The site is located just east of Dale Mabry in between
19:16:43 Dale Mabry and sterling, Azeele to the north and Horatio
19:16:46 to the south.
19:16:50 You are several blocks off of Kennedy Boulevard.
19:16:54 Here is an aerial to give you an idea of the
19:16:56 perspective, all the general Commercial uses along this
19:16:58 particular segment of Dale Mabry.
19:17:02 Once again the community mixed use 35 allows general
19:17:04 Commercial neighborhood Commercial serving uses and low
19:17:05 density office.
19:17:12 Azeele Street, as well as some portions of flats in some
19:17:16 segments do have this category of residential 20, which
19:17:19 does allow the consideration of low intensity
19:17:23 professional office types of uses.
19:17:26 What you have here is something that is going to be
19:17:28 complimentary and consistent with that development along
19:17:30 Azeele Street.
19:17:32 That is a request of the applicant, and Planning
19:17:35 Commission staff finds the proposed request consistent
19:17:37 and furthers the intent from comprehensive plan.
19:17:45 Thank you.
19:17:47 -- intent of the comprehensive plan.
19:17:47 Thank you.
19:17:49 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Okay, Council.
19:17:52 I just want to show you this real quick.
19:18:03 This was the original PD.
19:18:03 The four blocks.
19:18:04 The four parcels.
19:18:06 We will show you which one we are on.
19:18:09 Zoned back in '84 for a PD.
19:18:17 It was built.
19:18:19 Here we are with the third lot.
19:18:21 You can see all the PD that is show there and at the end
19:18:22 of the street.
19:18:28 This PD is Pizza Hut.
19:18:31 Dale Mabry to the west, Sterling to the east and Horatio
19:18:40 to the south and Azeele to the north.
19:18:48 The picture of the subject property.
19:18:54 There is a personal services, hair salon to the east
19:18:58 The intersection of Dale Mabry and Azeele, the Pizza Hut
19:19:01 I just referred to, these are the structures along the
19:19:02 north side.
19:19:06 Also mix of uses.
19:19:09 This is also on the north side.
19:19:11 This is also the north side.
19:19:12 Another business.
19:19:17 And then as I showed you, the salon and there is the
19:19:27 attorney's office and accountant's office on the other
19:19:32 The existing building was built under the PD on the
19:19:34 property today.
19:19:39 It is 2097 square feet and 25 feet in height.
19:19:43 It is seeking to add alternative uses, alternative site
19:19:47 circulation apply additional parking on the rear of the
19:19:49 building and seeking to increase the size of the
19:19:54 existing retention pond, the .37-acre site is located
19:19:57 east of Dale Mabry as stated and the segment of Azeele
19:19:59 that has business professional office, professional
19:20:02 services and residential in that area.
19:20:08 The PD setbacks, 53 feet south, 44 feet south, 49 feet
19:20:11 west and 15 feet east, the required parking for the
19:20:15 building at its highest intensity of the uses that it is
19:20:18 requesting is 17 spaces, and a total of 14 spaces are
19:20:20 being provided.
19:20:23 A waiver is being requested for the three spaces that
19:20:24 they are short.
19:20:27 No structural modifications are being requested for this
19:20:31 It really is the circulation and the parking to the
19:20:34 Photos of the existing structure have been provided as
19:20:39 As I previously mentioned, it was zoned in '85 as an
19:20:43 Currently seeking all cn uses which include personal
19:20:48 That is 17 spaces would be the personal services
19:20:54 There are a couple of site plan modifications.
19:20:58 The first is that the percentage of compact spaces are
19:21:01 actually measured under the number of spaces required,
19:21:06 so they just need to remove the waiver.
19:21:09 It is not shown on my staff report because I removed it
19:21:13 already, but on the site plan, it shows that they need a
19:21:15 waiver for the percentage of compact.
19:21:16 They don't.
19:21:19 The calculation was done incorrectly, and the second is
19:21:23 to ask them to combine waivers 3 and 6 on their site
19:21:26 plan to be one waiver as both items are related.
19:21:29 We have a waiver of 22 square feet of green space which
19:21:33 is very minimal in comparison to some of these requests
19:21:37 that we do.
19:21:39 Second comments from tree and landscape.
19:21:42 They need to relabel one of their trees and they also
19:21:45 need to make a visual depiction change on the site plan.
19:21:49 I have provided that on the revision sheet as well.
19:21:52 And lastly, transportation is asking that a label be
19:21:55 removed from their southern parking spaces labelling
19:22:02 them as 8x16 when they actually measure a different
19:22:07 These modifications are technical in nature and if made
19:22:10 during first and second reading staff would find the
19:22:11 request consistent.
19:22:17 Thank you.
19:22:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Go ahead, petitioner.
19:22:24 >> Good evening, Councilmembers, David Fixar.
19:22:28 representing the Applicant Linda Dollar and I have been
19:22:29 sworn in.
19:22:32 I read the staff report and agree with the changes made
19:22:33 by staff.
19:22:36 I think Miss Feeley has done really good job presenting
19:22:37 the case.
19:22:39 A couple of minor things I would like to add.
19:22:41 There is an existing structure.
19:22:44 It was renovated three or four years ago.
19:22:45 It was a house used for Commercial purposes over the
19:22:50 Went through really nice renovations in the interior and
19:22:53 exterior three or four years ago.
19:22:56 It is currently occupied for Commercial uses and the
19:22:59 owner wants to make sure that he has a clear
19:23:00 understanding --
19:23:02 >>GWEN MILLER: Can I stop you, sir.
19:23:02 Anyone opposition?
19:23:07 Anyone would like to speak on this item?
19:23:08 Motion to close.
19:23:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
19:23:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to close.
19:23:13 All in favor of the motion please say aye.
19:23:15 Opposed, nay.
19:23:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chairman, move an
19:23:23 ordinance rezoning property in general vicinity of 3710
19:23:29 W. Azeele Street and administrative, office medical and
19:23:32 -- and CN use providing an effective date.
19:23:36 Also that the items that were discussed, 3 and 6 are
19:23:44 combined, and the -- the compact deal as provided by
19:23:46 miss Feeley were all entered into the record.
19:23:48 >>GWEN MILLER: A motion and a second.
19:23:49 All in favor say aye.
19:23:50 Opposed nay.
19:24:02 We will go back to number one -- second reading adoption
19:24:12 will be at February 39:30 mill go back to item 1.
19:24:16 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Yes, ma'am, whatever is the pleasure of
19:24:19 >>JULIA COLE: Julia Cole.
19:24:21 I had an opportunity to discuss with the applicant and
19:24:23 neighbors out discussing the matter and I understand
19:24:26 they are agreeing to a request -- a continuance until
19:24:28 February 10.
19:24:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Can I get a motion.
19:24:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to continue to February 10 the
19:24:35 year 2011 --
19:24:36 >> If we can --
19:24:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Put it on the record.
19:24:40 >> On behalf the petitioner, I would like to request a
19:24:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: February 10 is what I heard.
19:24:50 >>GWEN MILLER: February 10, 6 p.m. all in favor say
19:24:52 Opposed, nay.
19:25:11 Now item number 5.
19:25:17 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Next item on your agenda, z 10-45,
19:25:24 Abbye Feeley, Land Development, 908 west Horatio
19:25:28 From PD to office business professional, school and
19:25:29 related uses.
19:25:33 Much like the case we just did, there was a PD done on
19:25:38 this property also back in the '80s.
19:25:40 No, '90s.
19:25:43 Originally z-9560.
19:25:46 It was also a multiparcel PD.
19:25:49 This is seeking to rezone just a piece of that just like
19:25:50 we just did.
19:25:54 There was previous waiver allowed for Chapter 13 to
19:26:00 reduce the vehicle use area buffer from 8 feet to 2.5
19:26:03 There are two new waivers being requested, to reduce the
19:26:08 required buffer on the east from 10 feet to 7 feet, and
19:26:12 to reduce it from 10 feet to 0 feet on the east to
19:26:14 accommodate the air conditioning unit.
19:26:17 When we now changed this use from an office, adjacent to
19:26:22 an office, and going to a school use adjacent to an
19:26:25 office when the 10-foot buffer kicks in and the two new
19:26:27 waivers and really related to the existing condition of
19:26:30 where the building is currently sitting and the air
19:26:31 conditioning unit.
19:26:35 Mr. Garcia?
19:26:37 >>TONY GARCIA: Thank you, Miss Feeley.
19:26:39 Tony Garcia, Planning Commission staff.
19:26:45 I have been sworn in.
19:26:47 Well, folks, this is the third in the row.
19:26:49 In the central planning district.
19:26:53 Three for three as far as the location of the project we
19:26:54 are looking at this evening.
19:26:56 So you know the central -- the central planning district
19:26:59 offers the most opportunity for growth and job
19:27:05 You can see over here, this is located in the historic
19:27:08 Hyde Park area just outside of the west of the urban
19:27:16 There is Gorrie Elementary and the site we are looking
19:27:19 at is right here on Horatio Street.
19:27:23 Miss Feeley told you briefly modification for the site
19:27:27 that will allow uses that will be complementary to
19:27:32 support, not necessarily gorrie specifically.
19:27:35 This school also owns and you will probably be familiar
19:27:40 with, we Ps on these parcels over here.
19:27:44 One for a mixed use project and the other one went
19:27:47 subsequently to the parking lot which was the intent for
19:27:51 additional overflow parking for the elementary school
19:27:53 and for the staff there.
19:27:57 The land uses over here are fairly -- fairly high in
19:28:00 residential -- potential residential 35.
19:28:02 This was residential 50.
19:28:06 This area really historically character wide.
19:28:07 There is not a lot of residential here.
19:28:09 If there is relation here.
19:28:11 It is pretty high in density but really what you have
19:28:14 here is a lot of professional office uses and some
19:28:15 Constitutional uses.
19:28:21 That very nice ALF built to the north of Gorrie
19:28:23 elementary that will be complimentary and served.
19:28:27 The population very nicely, the CMU-35 alongside to the
19:28:30 north which is representative characteristically of a
19:28:34 lot of professional office uses along Platt.
19:28:36 And, of course, boulevard has a lot of medical office
19:28:38 uses as well as professional office uses along the
19:28:42 street of Horatio, DeLeon.
19:28:45 That is characteristically what you will see over here,
19:28:48 the use is not going to be any more intense within that
19:28:50 is going to be proposed by the school district is really
19:28:52 going to be managing it.
19:28:54 Planning Commission staff, based on what it found over
19:28:56 here will find it consistent with the comprehensive plan
19:29:02 as the uses are complimentary and furthers the uses of
19:29:08 the comprehensive plan.
19:29:14 >>ABBYE FEELEY: As Tony said, Abbye Feeley, Land
19:29:15 Development Coordination.
19:29:17 We were here not too long ago in '09 for the piece just
19:29:19 to the south of where we are.
19:29:22 And that was purchased by the school board to do a
19:29:26 parking lot to accommodate both Gorrie, Wilson.
19:29:30 The one other piece of that same subject block.
19:29:31 Horatio to the north.
19:29:36 Edison to the west, boulevard to the east and DeLeon to
19:29:41 the south.
19:29:44 There is a mix of zoning district in the area, a lot of
19:29:49 PDs along boulevard.
19:29:57 The use right to the east of the property is Meridian
19:30:00 Many of you may be familiar with that.
19:30:13 Here is the subject property from Horatio looking south.
19:30:18 And Edison looking back toward boulevard.
19:30:25 Along Horatio to the north, looking west on Horatio.
19:30:29 This is the vacant property that is approved for the
19:30:32 parking lot.
19:30:35 This was exciting, horizon bay.
19:30:35 A beautiful building.
19:30:38 We rezoned this together three and a half to four years
19:30:46 For town homes and became the independent living
19:30:54 The request before you Council is two scenarios, one
19:30:56 would be to keep the existing building that's there and
19:30:58 allow for it either to continue as business professional
19:31:02 office or for administrative offices for the school
19:31:06 board to occupy for classroom space, the other option is
19:31:08 removing that building and being a parking lot or
19:31:10 connecting into the parking lot that has been approved
19:31:12 to the south.
19:31:19 Those modifications that are not shown on your site plan
19:31:23 which is the parking lot scenario will come back for
19:31:25 determination to make sure it is consistent with all the
19:31:29 provisions that are before you tonight.
19:31:30 Staff did find the request before you consistent, and if
19:31:34 you look on pages 2, 3 and 4 of the site plan, you can
19:31:37 see our analysis of the PD criteria and we are available
19:31:38 for any questions.
19:31:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions by Council?
19:31:47 >> Gina Grimes with the law firm of Hill, Ward and
19:31:51 101 East Kennedy boulevard --
19:31:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone near opposition to this petition
19:31:56 Anyone here in opposition to this petition?
19:31:59 What is the pleasure of Council.
19:32:00 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Can we use that little building
19:32:09 for a legal office?
19:32:11 >> I think our -- with the binder that is going into the
19:32:13 record, that it pretty much covers all of the evidence
19:32:17 that we needed to put on.
19:32:19 I think compared to the last public hearing on the
19:32:25 parking lot to the south the fact that we don't have
19:32:28 anyone in opposition means quite a bit in this
19:32:30 Unless you want us to give a presentation.
19:32:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I don't have any questions.
19:32:34 Thing is part of the bigger picture that we had two or
19:32:36 three years ago that ties everything together and gives
19:32:38 them an option of what they want to do with their
19:32:41 property, and if there is no opposition, and I don't see
19:32:43 any, I move to close.
19:32:44 >> Second.
19:32:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
19:32:49 All in favor by signifying by saying aye.
19:32:53 Councilman Caetano, do you want to read it?
19:32:56 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I will read it.
19:32:59 >> Rezoning property in the general vicinity of 908 west
19:33:02 Horatio street in the City of Tampa, Florida, more
19:33:04 particularly described in section one.
19:33:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Second.
19:33:06 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: From zoning district
19:33:10 classification, planned development office, business
19:33:13 professional, PD planned development office, business
19:33:18 professional and related uses provide an effective date.
19:33:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
19:33:22 Seconded by Councilwoman Capin.
19:33:24 All in favor signify by saying aye.
19:33:27 >> Motion carries unanimously.
19:33:30 Second reading adoption will be on February 3 at 9:30
19:33:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, miss Grimes, good
19:33:43 Item 6.
19:33:45 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Abbye Feeley, Land Development
19:33:51 Item number 6 on your edge that evening is located -- z
19:33:56 10-46 located at 3010 west DeLeon avenue and the
19:34:01 request tonight is from RM, residential multifamily 24
19:34:04 to PD planned development, office business professional.
19:34:08 There are no waivers being requested with this PD this
19:34:25 I think right now that's it.
19:34:27 >>TONY GARCIA: Good evening, once again, Tony Garcia,
19:34:28 Planning Commission staff.
19:34:30 I have been sworn.
19:34:32 We are on a roll.
19:34:36 This is number four in the central planning district.
19:34:39 Something nor planning thing as far as trying to direct
19:34:42 growth to where it needs to be in is a good thing.
19:34:47 So what we have here is located in the central planning
19:34:56 It is located a little bit more specifically -- if I can
19:34:59 find where my pen went and I will use this pen to
19:35:05 This property is located south of Kennedy Boulevard and
19:35:08 located just east of MacDill right before you get to
19:35:11 Swann, there is Parkland Estates.
19:35:17 That's what this yellow is, residential 6 on the map.
19:35:21 Memorial to the east, and this is community mixed-use 35
19:35:23 which again is representative of the character there
19:35:25 that is going to be low density office or neighborhood
19:35:28 Commercial or general Commercial types of uses.
19:35:33 This is all Residential 35 or Residential 20.
19:35:36 And then what we have is a community Commercial 35 right
19:35:40 The uses surrounding this -- this is an urban mixed use
19:35:43 60 which is really put here to recognize this is where
19:35:47 the towers are for the ALF.
19:35:51 A 10-story ALF across the street for this site.
19:35:55 The uses around this area are pretty eclectic because
19:35:57 you have some office uses here and some medical office
19:35:59 uses scattered around.
19:36:01 You have this community Commercial which goes back far
19:36:02 over here.
19:36:05 And then you have this real intense urban mixed use 60
19:36:09 category and a lot of office uses in the area.
19:36:13 It is more reflective if I were to show you the -- the
19:36:20 So you can see there is this hodgepodge of uses.
19:36:22 Here is all this parking here for these medical offices
19:36:26 Here is memorial over here and an office building over
19:36:28 there that has been there for quite a period of time.
19:36:31 And you have this little enclave over here, residential
19:36:36 enclave to the south of the site that is along Swann.
19:36:40 More Commercial uses and there are town homes over here.
19:36:42 And what we have -- here is an office use.
19:36:45 And this used to be a day-care center and now what we
19:36:49 are going to want to try to do is try to modify this for
19:36:51 use that is not going to be any more intensive as far as
19:36:54 the intensity of the surrounding uses that are there
19:36:59 from either a density aspect or intensity aspect.
19:37:03 What will be there is complimentary to the uses.
19:37:06 According to the comprehensive plan just so you know,
19:37:09 this site has to be able to meet locational criteria and
19:37:12 one of the technical issues we look at and reviewing the
19:37:15 site which means it has got to be within 250 feet of a
19:37:16 collector road.
19:37:19 The closest collector road is MacDill.
19:37:21 This happens to be 50 feet short of that.
19:37:23 So technically it doesn't meet locational criteria, but
19:37:26 the way the comprehensive plan works is we use
19:37:30 locational criteria as a barometer, but we also have to
19:37:32 look at overall and planning something overall
19:37:33 consistent and inconsistent.
19:37:36 We have to look at -- what the character is of the
19:37:38 surrounding area to you and in the existing built
19:37:42 You have a lot of larger offices in this area, larger
19:37:45 structures, more intense uses, particularly like a
19:37:48 hospital use which is one of the most intensive uses
19:37:51 that you have within the residential area.
19:37:55 Most of the residential uses within the surrounding area
19:37:59 are of a much higher intensity in is little bit of a
19:38:01 departure what you have here to the south, but this does
19:38:06 have a very good buffer from -- what the proposed use is
19:38:09 going to be over here, and the proposed use as miss
19:38:12 Feeley will go into depth on as far as it is going to
19:38:14 function is really not going to be something that will
19:38:17 necessarily pose any kind of adverse impacts to those
19:38:20 residential uses to the south, which is really the only
19:38:25 I think that you really have to be a little bit, I would
19:38:27 think, cautious about, but when you think of how the
19:38:31 site plan is and how the proposed use is going to
19:38:34 function, I think it is -- from a comprehensive plan
19:38:37 aspect, we don't see any adverse impacts that are going
19:38:40 to be opposed to those surrounding residential uses.
19:38:43 So overall on its face, even though it doesn't meet
19:38:46 locational criteria, we found it consistent with the
19:38:48 comprehensive plan because it does further the uses that
19:38:52 are there and it is complementary and the uses
19:38:55 surrounding it based on what the proposed uses are going
19:38:57 to be, the surrounding uses are more intense than what
19:38:59 we are proposing to put on the site.
19:39:00 Thank you.
19:39:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
19:39:10 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Abbye Feeley, Land Development.
19:39:12 I misspoke on the request.
19:39:16 It is for an RO not a PD which is residential office.
19:39:18 That is -- and it is for office business professional.
19:39:21 So I want to clear that up.
19:39:24 Just for the purposes of the record, I just wanted to
19:39:29 let you know that the ordinance that I submitted goes -
19:39:32 that case going from RM-24 to PD.
19:39:35 That needs to be changed to RO.
19:39:41 I will go ahead if Council's pleasure is to substitute
19:39:44 with the Clerk with the correct title and then we will
19:39:46 fix it in the morning.
19:39:47 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Sorry.
19:39:50 The request before you tonight change from RM
19:39:53 Multifamily Residential to RO, Residential Office or
19:39:55 Business Professional Office, the use that was currently
19:40:00 on the property is a day school or preschool property.
19:40:03 It is not currently been used as residential.
19:40:06 There are no waivers being requested with this
19:40:10 They are proposing to rezone to construct the
19:40:12 6,000-square-foot two-story office building.
19:40:18 The site contains 38,389 acres.
19:40:23 The 389 square feet, .88 of an acre and located one
19:40:24 block west of memorial.
19:40:27 The proposed PD setbacks are as follows.
19:40:34 North 25 feet, east 55 feet, south 95 feet, and west 55
19:40:37 I want to show they are substantial setbacks.
19:40:39 The buildings are being placed predominantly in the
19:40:40 center of the property.
19:40:44 A total of 33 parking spaces are required and 33 are
19:40:47 being provided.
19:40:51 There are a few minor modifications so let me go ahead
19:40:55 and show you photos of the site where we are.
19:40:58 I know Tony went over this, this is a site shown here in
19:41:05 green, DeLeon to the north, Swann to the south, Gomez to
19:41:13 the east and MacDill to the west.
19:41:26 And you can see some of the mix of uses on the aerial.
19:41:28 This is the subject property.
19:41:31 You will see on your site plan too there are several
19:41:35 large specimen trees, the site is heavily wooded with a
19:41:37 lot of trees.
19:41:40 It was hard to kind of get some views.
19:41:42 There is a picture a little further back.
19:41:44 The building is in there and the way the sun was hitting
19:41:50 this to the north of the property in is to the east.
19:41:53 This is also looking north.
19:42:02 And this is north.
19:42:03 The towers.
19:42:06 There are a couple outstanding issues with the site
19:42:10 They are predominantly related to tree and landscape
19:42:13 items that you will see on your revision sheet.
19:42:17 There is also a need for stormwater note to be added and
19:42:21 lastly, I just needed them to change their parking
19:42:25 They have -- the current table shows that there are no
19:42:30 compact spaces and there are actually 15 compact spaces
19:42:36 that need to be provided or shown in that table.
19:42:37 Lastly, you will see the comments from park and
19:42:42 In my staff report, I did discuss this with Kathy Beck.
19:42:46 An off-site grand tree 44.5 inches that needs to be
19:42:49 Right now it is not being measured off of the edge of
19:42:50 the trunk.
19:42:53 It was measured from the center, I just need that
19:42:56 measurement to be adjusted and once they get past the 15
19:42:59 feet, they can have 5 foot of pervious and wants this
19:43:03 reflected as well and I want to get that on the record.
19:43:05 Other than these technical modifications that can be
19:43:08 accomplished between first and second readings, staff
19:43:10 would find the request consistent, and we are available
19:43:12 should we have any questions.
19:43:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions by Council?
19:43:21 >> Good evening, Mr. Chairman, members of the Council.
19:43:22 My name is John Grandoff.
19:43:26 Suite 3700 Bank of America plaza, and I have the
19:43:36 pleasure of representing my friend ca RO le and Steve
19:43:37 Jenkins and their son.
19:43:40 Also joined by our architect of Lord prepared the site
19:43:42 plan that is before you this evening.
19:43:46 As indicated by miss Feeley and by Mr. Garcia, there are
19:43:47 no waivers required.
19:43:52 The project is consistent with all requirements.
19:43:56 The -- the changes Abbye -- that miss Feeley has
19:43:58 requested are acceptable to us and can be formed between
19:44:00 first and second reading.
19:44:02 I have three letters of support that I would like to
19:44:07 One from Cliff Myers of Palma Ceia, store across the
19:44:14 Another from -- excuse me, Jeff Italio rear on Swann and
19:44:20 MacDill and a doctor whose solves behind the property.
19:44:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone -- anyone opposition to this
19:44:24 Anyone here in opposition?
19:44:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
19:44:27 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Second.
19:44:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
19:44:29 Moved and seconded.
19:44:31 In all favor signify by saying aye.
19:44:35 You want to read it -- Councilwoman Mulhern.
19:44:38 >> That has a change on it, on the ordinance.
19:44:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Has a change -- mentioned about --
19:44:42 >>MARY MULHERN: The substitute.
19:44:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The substitute for the RO.
19:44:50 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance --
19:44:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
19:44:53 >>MARY MULHERN: Oh, I see.
19:45:00 Rezoning property in the general vicinity of 3010 West
19:45:03 DeLeon Avenue in the City of Tampa, Florida and more
19:45:05 particularly described in section one from zoning
19:45:09 district classification RM-24 Residential Multifamily to
19:45:13 Residential Office -- Office Business Professional
19:45:16 providing an effective date.
19:45:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Second.
19:45:19 Is there a second?
19:45:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
19:45:22 >>MARY MULHERN: With the changes between first and
19:45:25 second reading that Abbye Feeley mentioned.
19:45:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: As outlined by staff.
19:45:29 Moved and seconded.
19:45:30 All in favor say aye.
19:45:34 >> Motion carried with Caetano -- sorry, motion carried
19:45:39 Second readding in adoption February 3 at 9:30 A.M.
19:45:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
19:45:41 Thank you.
19:45:45 Item 7.
19:45:48 >> Council, Item 7 on your agenda this evening is z
19:45:51 In the same little area of the city all night.
19:45:56 This is located from 2908 W. Azeele Street and 408 S.
19:45:57 Gomez Avenue.
19:45:59 Again, as I mentioned to you in one of the other cases
19:46:05 tonight, this property was previously rezoned to a PD
19:46:11 back in '96, and building was constructed there.
19:46:14 The request this evening is seeking to build an
19:46:16 expansion for the building, as well as some additional
19:46:21 The request before you is PD Planned Development,
19:46:25 medical office and RM-24 residential multifamily to PD
19:46:28 planned development medical office.
19:46:30 There are several waivers.
19:46:33 This case was continued from last month so that we could
19:46:36 work out some of these waivers and really get the best
19:46:38 design on the property.
19:46:41 I feel that we have done that and went back.
19:46:44 Solid Waste, transportation, tree and landscape, and got
19:46:47 to this point.
19:46:51 The waivers are vehicle use area buffer, along Gomez
19:46:56 from 8 foot to 0 foot, to reduce the Eastern landscape
19:47:01 buffer from 15 feet to the 6-foot masonry wall to 5 foot
19:47:04 with a masonry wall to reduce the southern landscape
19:47:09 buffer from 15 feet to 6 feet with a masonry wall with a
19:47:11 6-foot masonry wall.
19:47:14 Reduce the parking from 6 per thousand to 5 per thousand
19:47:17 which is a 19% reduction and to allow for the placement
19:47:21 of Solid Waste dumpster within the required 15-foot
19:47:25 As you will see on your site plan, there are several
19:47:29 large specimen trees on the site in the 25 and 26 inches
19:47:32 and even a grand that has been preserved.
19:47:35 So some of that and the layout of the site is really
19:47:38 driven by the existing tree canopy of that area.
19:47:40 I can discuss that a little bit more in just a moment.
19:47:51 Thank you.
19:47:53 >>TONY GARCIA: Tony Garcia, Planning Commission staff.
19:47:55 I have been sworn.
19:47:58 Last case for the night.
19:48:03 But you are not done yet, I don't believe, right?
19:48:07 Whatever you say.
19:48:10 I didn't hear what you said, but --
19:48:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You normally don't.
19:48:15 >>TONY GARCIA: I am ignoring you, you are right.
19:48:18 All right, there is going to be -- again, this is in the
19:48:21 central planning district and again a very good night of
19:48:24 how we are going to direct growth in the city.
19:48:27 The site is located right down in this area, right in
19:48:29 the edge of the central planning district.
19:48:33 Let me go ahead and show you the future land use
19:48:36 Residential 20, residential 35 which is where it is at
19:48:39 on the southeast corner of Gomez and Azeele.
19:48:42 You have an existing medical office there right now that
19:48:44 is basically asking for an expansion of the existing
19:48:46 medical use.
19:48:50 So what you are having to be posed with this evening is
19:48:53 the functionalities of the site as far as -- it meeting
19:48:56 code and trying to be able to fit in and not adversely
19:48:59 impact the adjacent uses.
19:49:01 Very quickly you can see in the aerial, there are a
19:49:05 variety of office -- professional office uses around
19:49:09 this segment of Azeele, in addition to a lot of higher
19:49:14 density types of developments in proximity to the site.
19:49:16 Planning Commission staff found the proposed request
19:49:17 consistent with the comprehensive plan.
19:49:19 Thank you.
19:49:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions by Council?
19:49:29 That's right, miss Feeley.
19:49:32 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Abbye Feeley, Land Development.
19:49:35 I will quickly go through my presentation as staff did
19:49:39 find this request consistent with minor modifications.
19:49:41 This is the site here.
19:49:45 The existing PD if I may stopped that the line here.
19:49:51 And this expansion what is before you tonight is this
19:49:58 A mix of uses in this area.
19:50:03 This is the subject property existing today the port
19:50:07 cachet will come down and when the expansion built, here
19:50:12 is the existing parking area in is the property to the
19:50:14 south that will become the new parking area.
19:50:17 This is further down at the corner there, although zoned
19:50:22 RM-24, it is a counseling center there, so not
19:50:25 residential on that side.
19:50:30 There is residential on the west side of Gomez.
19:50:34 This is that south piece all the way to the corner.
19:50:40 This is immediately west of the site.
19:50:44 This is at the northwest corner of Gomez and Azeele.
19:50:46 Again we need to show you since we looked at two
19:50:48 projects we have done tonight, this was the school you
19:50:53 guys did south of Mitchell elementary.
19:50:55 It came before you last summer.
19:50:58 We want to show you this project.
19:50:58 Came out beautiful.
19:51:00 This was the original and then the addition there.
19:51:05 Nice asset to the community there.
19:51:09 Exciting because I got to see Horizon Bay tonight too.
19:51:12 Good to see that the projects are actually coming out of
19:51:13 the ground.
19:51:18 This is to expand the existing medical office from 3656
19:51:26 square feet to 6356 square feet and 2700 New Hampshire
19:51:33 square--- 2700-square-foot.
19:51:37 38 spaces are required and 31 and a waiver for is being
19:51:39 requested for the deficit.
19:51:45 A modern-style architecture.
19:51:47 Modifications to are he write one of the waivers.
19:51:50 Waiver number 5 to make a correction to an improper
19:51:53 folio that is on the site plan, and lastly to change the
19:51:58 size and label the two parking spaces located in the
19:52:03 middle island to be compact size.
19:52:06 With those modifications staff finds this consistent and
19:52:07 available for any questions.
19:52:10 >> Any question for Council?
19:52:13 >> Good evening, Mr. Chairman.
19:52:16 John Grandoff, 3700 Bank of America Plaza.
19:52:21 I represent Dr. Ed Farrier and his wife who owns this
19:52:25 Dr. Farrier's plastic surgery practice is at this
19:52:27 property and he is adding on to the building.
19:52:30 And we request we have this PD placed before you.
19:52:32 We have no opposition that I know of.
19:52:35 Andrew Madson is with me this evening and also our
19:52:37 architect on this project.
19:52:41 I am available for any questions you have.
19:52:43 We respectfully request your approval.
19:52:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone in opposition to this petition?
19:52:48 >> Move to close.
19:52:48 >> Second.
19:52:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.
19:52:52 Councilman Miranda.
19:52:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, move an
19:52:58 ordinance in the general vicinity of 2908 West Azeele
19:53:03 and 408 S. Gomez Avenue particularly described.
19:53:07 PD office medical and RM-24 multifamily and office
19:53:11 medical providing an effective date.
19:53:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.
19:53:16 Seconded which by Councilman Caetano.
19:53:20 Moved and seconded.
19:53:20 Say aye.
19:53:23 >> We can incorporate all the changes.
19:53:26 Second reading will be February 3.
19:53:28 >> Motion carried unanimously.
19:53:31 Second reading and adoption February 3 at 9:30 A.M.
19:53:33 >> Thank you for your time this evening.
19:53:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
19:53:39 Thank you.
19:53:46 Council, we have been discussing over the last couple of
19:53:49 months this issue of the panhandling, and as you know,
19:53:52 we talked about in our last meeting, last Thursday a
19:53:55 week ago an opportunity to work with the city attorney
19:53:58 to bring back something that is more legally defensible
19:54:02 and something that we perhaps can afford.
19:54:07 I had a meeting today with Mr. Chip Fletcher, and so I
19:54:11 want to make a motion to Council that we ask the legal
19:54:16 department to present to the City Council on January 20
19:54:19 meeting ordinance prohibiting solicitation on the
19:54:23 right-of-way on arterial roads within the city.
19:54:26 What that means is arterial roads are major roads in the
19:54:28 city where the state of vehicles, volume of traffic and
19:54:31 other factors present a greater safety risk to people in
19:54:34 the right-of-way, which would include Dale Mabry,
19:54:42 Kennedy, Hillsborough, Fowler and Fletcher and can come
19:54:46 back us to and Council at that time can debate if hey
19:54:47 want to vote or continue.
19:54:49 But I would like to get it on the agenda to come back to
19:54:51 under staff report.
19:54:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Did you say Martin Luther King, Jr?
19:54:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All those roads.
19:54:59 What I would like -- what I told Mr. Fletcher to do was
19:55:01 pass tonight and meet with all the City Council to
19:55:03 answer any questions you have regarding what streets,
19:55:07 what roads, and that would include -- he just kind of
19:55:10 highlighted just those few there so you would have an
19:55:13 idea when we talk about arterial roads.
19:55:16 Hopefully that by the time we come back from Thursday, a
19:55:19 lot of your questions can already be answered by him and
19:55:22 also at that time on the 20th, you don't have to pass
19:55:25 it, you can continue it or whatever, but it could be set
19:55:28 for your first public hearing or your first reading
19:55:33 First reading and then follow by two weeks later.
19:55:40 So that is my motion.
19:55:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Move.
19:55:44 >>CURTIS STOKES: I second -- I second for discussion.
19:55:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
19:55:47 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, I am a little
19:55:49 I read about this in the newspaper today.
19:55:54 I did meet with Mr. Fletcher and he showed me the map of
19:55:56 the roads that are going to be included.
19:56:01 And I know when I made a motion to move this some time
19:56:04 ago, Mr. Chairman, you stated let's wait until the
19:56:07 county finishes their plan, and we had a meeting this
19:56:08 Monday at the county.
19:56:13 In fact miss Mulhern was there, and I will tell you just
19:56:15 three of the streets that I look at, commerce way which
19:56:16 goes to freedom high school.
19:56:23 We got 1,000 workers at USAA and we have the high school
19:56:26 down there and the junior high school and we have Cross
19:56:29 Creek and we have New Tampa Boulevard, a major shopping
19:56:33 They are panhandling there now, and I can't support
19:56:36 Let's wait for the county to come back with their
19:56:42 That is what they have been meeting for months.
19:56:44 And just -- I can't support it.
19:56:48 Because I just see three streets.
19:56:53 I think we need more than what you are offering.
19:56:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Stokes.
19:56:56 >>CURTIS STOKES: Thank you very much Madam chair --
19:57:02 I would have to agree with Mr. Caetano that we need some
19:57:06 additional streets included in this, and I am sure we
19:57:10 can pick up in addition to -- I would say the first
19:57:12 reading on the 20th or 27th.
19:57:16 Also I don't know if we can make in addition to the
19:57:23 motion, Chairman Scott, that we -- that we can somehow
19:57:26 prohibit the solicitor on the streets that are not
19:57:30 listed, the ones that we are going to totally ban, on
19:57:32 the streets that are not listed that we can somehow
19:57:36 prohibit the solicitor from stepping into traffic, where
19:57:39 they have to stay on the median or they can't walk in --
19:57:43 they can't leave the median and walk in and out of
19:57:46 traffic without being summoned by the person inside the
19:57:50 So we can try to add some structure around what they are
19:57:53 doing inside the median.
19:57:56 And also if we could work with the city attorney's
19:58:01 office and t PD and public works about the size of the
19:58:03 signs that the solicitors have.
19:58:07 Some of them have these unsightly signs, but we can put
19:58:09 some structure around the streets that we are not going
19:58:13 to put a total ban on, but limit the size of the sign,
19:58:16 and also prohibit them from leaving the median on those
19:58:21 other roads, not walking in and out of traffic.
19:58:26 We can -- we need to add that to the motion.
19:58:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Add one on -- the one on Martin Luther
19:58:32 King, Jr. and Nebraska, he walks away with a dummy.
19:58:35 At first I thought it was a child because I saw it from
19:58:39 But he turned around and it was a dummy.
19:58:41 Reverend Scott.
19:58:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I am after him.
19:58:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair.
19:58:48 These problems are not going to go away.
19:58:55 These problems you can get from the arterial roads and
19:58:58 lesser and lesser and meet further into the
19:59:01 Lakeland had an ordinance a total ban to go to a
19:59:03 different structure because the judge ruled it was
19:59:07 unConstitutional what Lakeland did.
19:59:10 We have things are going -- government moves slowly and
19:59:12 for a reason.
19:59:15 There is a -- a committee that was formed.
19:59:18 I believe Mr. Caetano alluded to that in the county with
19:59:21 three or four different cities participating or solving
19:59:22 or trying to address this problem.
19:59:28 This problem becomes furthermore complex when you ban a
19:59:31 total ban on certain streets.
19:59:35 Those are the same streets that 80 or 90 or 100 people
19:59:39 came here and say that they make the food on their table
19:59:43 by selling newspapers and pooling that money so their
19:59:45 family can eat.
19:59:49 That will also take that class of hard-working people
19:59:54 who are trying to make a living on the food side things
20:00:00 and just make them panhandlers, I guess.
20:00:02 We haven't given further thought to all the
20:00:08 ramifications of solving this problem.
20:00:11 Like I said earlier, even in war, the enemy wounded are
20:00:17 treated by the other side.
20:00:21 Today we have a great operation going with certain
20:00:28 operations that take care of the needy; however, I
20:00:31 believe there is more care for the animals as there
20:00:35 should be for their own rights in the humane society
20:00:36 than we are doing for human beings.
20:00:39 We just cannot forget that when you and I have a pain,
20:00:42 we can go to the hospital and be taken care of.
20:00:45 We have insurance.
20:00:48 We also have food on the table.
20:00:51 Some of these individuals -- and I have had them here in
20:00:58 front of us are of a job with family, with kids, and
20:01:02 some of the service centers are completely full.
20:01:06 We have no answer to how do we solve this problem.
20:01:15 The moving of these individuals, and by the way, these
20:01:21 individuals -- so really, politically, I don't think I
20:01:23 am doing the right thing.
20:01:28 But in my own mind and in my heart, I really believe
20:01:31 that there is got to be an answer, and the answer should
20:01:35 not be just ban.
20:01:38 Right now the ordinance we have in place states that you
20:01:41 can not go into the street.
20:01:44 And guess what, not one of us has not seen them on the
20:01:50 street away from the median walking.
20:01:52 >>GWEN MILLER: I have.
20:01:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Not one have not.
20:01:56 How many arrests have we made?
20:02:00 Maybe they made some, but I don't know of any.
20:02:02 Right here on Ashley the other day I caught a fella
20:02:05 walking in the middle of the street.
20:02:09 And these problems are not going to get fixed by a ban.
20:02:14 It has got to have much more.
20:02:17 I think it is a start, but it has got to have much more
20:02:24 ingredients to make this process one that has something.
20:02:27 What if these people go out the dark?
20:02:28 I don't know.
20:02:30 How many of them are they?
20:02:30 I don't know.
20:02:32 How many of them have families?
20:02:33 I don't know.
20:02:36 How many of them have children that have no place to
20:02:38 I don't know.
20:02:41 I think we ought to have a different type of approach
20:02:44 that we speak to the coalition.
20:02:47 We speak to the people who are in need.
20:02:50 We speak to these individuals who are really trying to
20:02:52 make it and can't.
20:02:57 If you look at the proportionate amount of those
20:03:01 Some of them are well-educated as we are and some of
20:03:04 them have medical problems and some of them have more
20:03:05 than medical problems.
20:03:08 Some have mental problems as we do.
20:03:12 So what I am saying is, there is no one answer, no one
20:03:15 has come up with a comprehensive answer inside this
20:03:20 building and outside this building that has said this is
20:03:24 how we solve this, and then where is the money coming
20:03:27 We can say you ban.
20:03:30 We can say, yeah, you get a $500 fine and 30 days in
20:03:34 You know what, that is a laughter.
20:03:36 First don't have the 500 and then I got to feed them
20:03:39 when they are in jail, and it costs a lot of money to
20:03:42 put someone in jail.
20:03:46 So I don't have an answer.
20:03:49 And I am willing to say I don't have an answer.
20:03:52 So to just say let's get rid of something, I am not
20:03:54 saying that is what you are saying, but I haven't had a
20:03:57 chance to digest what I read because I would just come
20:04:01 in here and read the first couple of paragraphs, and it
20:04:06 is just not conducive enough for me now to set it for
20:04:09 the 20th and say I am ready to go.
20:04:11 Not unless you have the homeless coalition.
20:04:14 Not unless I have those people --
20:04:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The second to motion.
20:04:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Are you finished.
20:04:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If you want me to stop, I will stop.
20:04:23 Okay, miss Mulhern.
20:04:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I understand.
20:04:28 >>GWEN MILLER: You have three minutes.
20:04:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Five as an attorney.
20:04:31 >>MARY MULHERN: Finish.
20:04:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I wanted to make sure I had five.
20:04:36 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Half a minute left.
20:04:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I quit.
20:04:39 I understand.
20:04:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Miss Mulhern.
20:04:43 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, I will try to be brief,
20:04:46 because Mr. Miranda said pretty much what I want to say.
20:04:50 I want to remind people that -- not my colleagues, but
20:04:55 if anybody is watching or listening.
20:04:58 What we can do on City Council.
20:05:00 We are in a really tragic time right now.
20:05:04 Unemployment, although it is supposed to be -- what is
20:05:06 it around 10%.
20:05:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 13 almost.
20:05:11 >>MARY MULHERN: 13% in Florida.
20:05:13 That's just the people we are counting.
20:05:16 We are closer to 20% unemployment, the reality is a lot
20:05:19 of us don't have jobs, the reality is, a lot of us are
20:05:23 losing our homes, can't pay the rent, can't pay their
20:05:27 mortgage, have been foreclosed on or under water.
20:05:30 We are in a very tragic time right now and it is
20:05:34 difficult, but the thought if you take the people who
20:05:39 have resorted to begging on the streets or soliciting or
20:05:43 whatever you want to call it off of some of our roads is
20:05:47 going to make any difference to the reality of their
20:05:52 lives or ours, it just doesn't make sense.
20:05:57 So I -- I -- I think that we need to face this bigger
20:05:59 problem, but what we can do -- we talked about it today
20:06:02 at our CRA meeting how we are trying to create more
20:06:06 How we have community redevelopment areas that are
20:06:11 helping the private sector bring more jobs into Tampa.
20:06:14 So those kind of things are what we can do as the City
20:06:19 Council, so, you know, we can band -- we can -- tonight,
20:06:23 we can say okay, some people are pressuring us to do
20:06:27 There is a lot of pressure for us to do this, and I
20:06:30 agree with Mr. Miranda, it would be a popular thing to
20:06:33 do if we did it right now tonight, but I think we are
20:06:34 better than that.
20:06:37 We take our job more seriously.
20:06:40 And Mr. Caetano has been going to these meetings that
20:06:43 the county has been having, and I have to say this,
20:06:49 because I went to the meeting on Monday, and I was
20:06:52 discouraged from going, okay.
20:06:56 So we had to sit here and have -- and we have had to
20:07:02 have -- listen to so many people telling us that we need
20:07:06 to ban homelessness, but then when there is -- meetings
20:07:11 happening where they are talk about some -- to ban
20:07:14 panhandling, I misspoke.
20:07:17 Talking about possible solutions and a lot of good
20:07:22 I was told I shouldn't go to this meeting and if I did,
20:07:25 I shouldn't say anything.
20:07:29 But to ask your City Council to pass some legislation
20:07:35 but not to participate in trying to find out what some
20:07:38 of the solutions are and what the recommendations are,
20:07:42 there is -- there was a county sheriff, somebody from
20:07:47 Had homeless advocates there.
20:07:50 They had the newspapers, the attorney for the Tribune
20:07:54 spoke very well and had really good recommendations for
20:07:55 what we could do.
20:07:59 So this Council.
20:08:03 We need to have this kind of reporting coming back to
20:08:05 Where is Mr. Fletcher tonight.
20:08:07 Our legal department is ready for us to pass an
20:08:11 ordinance and they are not even here?
20:08:14 >> Miss Mulhern, if I may --
20:08:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: She is talking.
20:08:18 You shouldn't interrupt while she is talking.
20:08:20 >>MARY MULHERN: Where is he?
20:08:21 Is there someone from --
20:08:25 >> A motion made under new business, miss Mulhern, there
20:08:26 is not on the agenda tonight.
20:08:27 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.
20:08:31 But when we normally direct -- when we normally direct
20:08:34 the legal department to come back with an ordinance, we
20:08:37 have a recommendation for what we want in there.
20:08:38 We are not ready to do that.
20:08:43 We need to get -- we need to hear from TPD and we need
20:08:46 to hear from all these people and reports submitted to
20:08:49 that county and Mr. Caetano can back me up on this.
20:08:52 They got reports from different cities, from all kinds
20:08:56 of people, and we haven't -- none of that has been
20:08:57 presented to us.
20:09:02 So, I am perfectly willing to discuss possible solutions
20:09:07 or recommendations, but to -- to think that there is
20:09:09 going to be an ordinance that we are going to be ready
20:09:14 to pass at our next meeting, I don't think that is
20:09:16 responsible of us.
20:09:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Chairman Scott.
20:09:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me start off by saying under your
20:09:24 rules and guidelines if you want to put them on the
20:09:26 agenda, you have to bring them to the Council.
20:09:26 That is number one.
20:09:31 Secondly, it is -- it is a proposal to have the -- that
20:09:34 the legal department to bring something forth at our
20:09:39 next meeting at which time he will meet with all of City
20:09:41 Council members behind closed doors and discuss any
20:09:43 questions you may have.
20:09:49 And secondly, you -- whatever he brings forth, it don't
20:09:52 have to be voted upon or approved at your next meeting.
20:09:54 That is the fact.
20:09:58 I have been here for years now, and I have come to
20:10:00 understand system that you all put in place before I got
20:10:03 So I am functions within the system that was created
20:10:05 before I got here four years ago.
20:10:09 The other thing I will say is it is -- it is not
20:10:12 comprehensive because here again -- it allows -- my
20:10:15 intent was to allow for your input into this as we move
20:10:21 And so, therefore, -- that was just an example of some
20:10:22 of the streets.
20:10:24 That's all that was.
20:10:28 A lot more -- if you get with him and a question you
20:10:31 asked and look at the map, the other thing I wanted to
20:10:34 say was I feel no pressure.
20:10:38 I have been an elected official for 14 years, and I
20:10:41 don't vote on something because it is popular or not
20:10:44 I vote on what I believe -- my beliefs and principles
20:10:46 and convictions.
20:10:48 Anyone who knows me know that's how I vote.
20:10:52 I voted against several months ago on the transgender
20:10:56 ordinance, going against my colleagues who are clergy at
20:10:58 that time which was not popular.
20:11:00 So I am not voting on issue because it is popular or
20:11:03 I am voting on an issue.
20:11:06 I am bringing this forth as a way to discuss and the
20:11:08 only way we can do it under the sunshine law.
20:11:10 You can't do it behind closed door.
20:11:13 You can't do it in the office, the only way is in the
20:11:15 public under the sunshine.
20:11:17 The only mechanism we have.
20:11:21 Lastly my second motion is do exactly what Mr. Miranda
20:11:24 Let's have a workshop the 4th of this month, bring
20:11:28 together the social service department, the social
20:11:32 agency from the county, who represents the county, the
20:11:36 county, Hillsborough county, the homeless coalition, the
20:11:39 metropolitan ministry, any of those other agencies that
20:11:41 involve -- who are -- who are very much involved in
20:11:44 meeting the needs of these people to talk to us about
20:11:46 what are the real issues, what are some of the
20:11:49 solutions, how those issues can be addressed.
20:11:51 That is what the attempt is.
20:11:56 Not only to look at banning certain streets, but also
20:12:00 look at how to address these needs, social service needs
20:12:02 that people have, and you can only do that in a public
20:12:06 So the intent here is -- is to allow this to be put on
20:12:08 the agenda as we always do to get more information and
20:12:10 to have more input.
20:12:13 And at that time, you can vote it down or continue it,
20:12:14 whatever you want to do.
20:12:18 So the intent here is really to allow legal to come back
20:12:21 before us on the 20th, on the staff report, and at that
20:12:25 point which is your system, your guideline and your rule
20:12:27 that you had long before I got here.
20:12:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Miss Capin.
20:12:32 Go ahead.
20:12:37 >>YVONNE CAPIN: So we are looking for workshop?
20:12:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: In terms of meeting the social service
20:12:45 needs of those homeless and panhandlers, yes.
20:12:50 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Reports from Tampa -- Tampa police
20:12:57 department and code enforcement on -- on these issues.
20:12:59 What reports on that.
20:13:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The report would include -- and my
20:13:01 opinion --
20:13:05 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I mean I am asking -- I am asking --
20:13:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I don't know about code enforcement.
20:13:09 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I have asked for reports before.
20:13:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Caetano.
20:13:15 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I am not done.
20:13:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
20:13:22 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I have to commend you on the solution
20:13:26 -- Tampa is a strong and decent city, and the solution
20:13:29 has to be strong and decent.
20:13:33 And I think that is what we are -- all of us are aiming
20:13:44 for and that's what we have to get to work on.
20:13:46 Mill Councilman Caetano.
20:13:49 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, I hate to disagree
20:13:52 with you, but I asked for a workshop and you wouldn't
20:13:55 agree with my motion for workshop and miss Mulhern, you
20:13:57 were at this meeting.
20:13:59 I didn't know you were going to be there.
20:14:00 I didn't say a word.
20:14:03 And I was been very vocal at the meeting and I was
20:14:06 surprised you were there and I don't know who told you
20:14:09 not to come and the reason they told you that is it was
20:14:10 not a noticed meeting.
20:14:12 Two of us cannot be there and talk.
20:14:14 That is the statutes sponsorship didn't say the word.
20:14:15 I kept quiet.
20:14:17 I almost fell asleep I was so bored.
20:14:22 And the thing is, I have met with Mr. Lake, and I told
20:14:25 him speak with Rebecca from our legal department.
20:14:31 I would concede to a Sunday sale of newspapers with the
20:14:36 "Tribune" and "The Times," there were two attorneys
20:14:38 there and grown anyone else met with them.
20:14:43 Mr. Lake gave a comprehensive report at this meeting who
20:14:43 got killed.
20:14:46 His alcohol don't was five times higher normal -- than
20:14:51 normal, four point something.
20:14:52 I don't think it is fair.
20:14:55 The time we had the public hearing here, most of the
20:14:58 people that got up and talked were all newspaper people.
20:14:59 And I support them.
20:15:02 I know they are making money out there, but some of
20:15:04 these guys are out there knocking on windows.
20:15:05 That's not fair.
20:15:08 I know women who don't want to stop at a red light.
20:15:09 There are going through the red light.
20:15:11 A woman told me the other day, I am not going to stop.
20:15:16 Some guy is going to come and break my window.
20:15:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Miranda.
20:15:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, three things -- one the
20:15:22 sidewalk ordinance.
20:15:24 I didn't bring it up one day and vote onto a week
20:15:26 I distribute the whole ordinance.
20:15:27 Pass it out.
20:15:31 Two weeks later, pass it out to all -- neighborhood and
20:15:32 so forth and so on.
20:15:35 The pain management clinic the same way and chapter 27
20:15:38 revision of two items that should never have been in
20:15:40 Those things took weeks to do.
20:15:41 And they were done.
20:15:44 They were done with the length of time and understanding
20:15:47 and comprehensive reviews.
20:15:50 But what I am saying is that it might be the world's
20:15:53 best thing to do, but not within one week.
20:15:57 You have to have more time to bring all these things --
20:15:59 gather all the data.
20:16:02 For instance, just today during lunch as I am leaving --
20:16:06 Mr. Chip Carter was downstairs and I asked him two
20:16:08 One was about what happened at the county, and the other
20:16:11 one, what happened with the traffic study that we were
20:16:17 going to do to limit panhandling doing certain hours on
20:16:18 traffic studies.
20:16:20 That has not even been brought up.
20:16:22 I talked to the legal department for months on that idea
20:16:25 on Sunday from 6 until 2:00.
20:16:30 Maybe two days a week from 1:1:30 to 4:30.
20:16:32 Based on traffic study.
20:16:33 You must have something of substance.
20:16:35 If you are going to court, you are going to lose.
20:16:39 That is the way the American system works.
20:16:40 The city has done little.
20:16:42 Maybe they have done a lot, but certainly have reported
20:16:45 to this Council and done anything.
20:16:48 What I am saying is another one that is out there just
20:16:52 So many things out there dangling that nobody has reeled
20:16:55 them all in and said this is the comprehensive review
20:16:58 and here is how we are going to try to solve this
20:17:02 These problems could be solved, but they are going to be
20:17:04 very, very difficult to be solved.
20:17:06 Because it takes something that we don't have and that
20:17:08 is a lot of revenue.
20:17:09 Thank you.
20:17:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Stokes.
20:17:15 >>CURTIS STOKES: Thank you very much, Ms. Miller.
20:17:20 We have compassion for those less fortunate than we are.
20:17:23 Mr. Miranda, while we are still waiting for this to come
20:17:29 toward us, it would be incumbent for us as a Council to
20:17:33 put a stopgap for a way for the citizens to stop at the
20:17:35 light and stop signs who are having the aggressive
20:17:40 panhandling, the guy on the median, walking up to the
20:17:44 cars, putting the cardboard right inside the window or
20:17:46 at the window and asking them to give them money.
20:17:48 I think we need to do something and we need to -- about
20:17:51 a year and a half ago the Council passed an ordinance
20:17:55 that asked them -- to wear their orange vests.
20:17:58 I think we -- add a new section to that that prohibit
20:18:02 the solicitor from approaching cars without being
20:18:04 summoned to the car.
20:18:06 It will alleviate some of the fear that exists and
20:18:10 especially by a lot of the women in our community.
20:18:13 Because -- because that's -- that's the fear.
20:18:17 The fear is that these guys -- these aggressive guys are
20:18:17 out there.
20:18:19 They are -- they are approaching the cars.
20:18:21 They are -- they are being very aggressive.
20:18:26 So we have to do something and I applaud Reverend Scott
20:18:29 and Mr. Caetano for at least pushing the envelope on
20:18:29 this issue.
20:18:32 I think it is -- I think we need to put structure around
20:18:37 it and at least until we get all the data back, let's do
20:18:44 At least -- amend a new section to the previous
20:18:49 ordinance that does not allow them to approach a vehicle
20:18:50 unless someone asks them too.
20:18:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Reverend Scott.
20:18:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, again, the attempt here is
20:18:58 getting information.
20:19:00 All what you are saying is you are not going to get it
20:19:02 unless we will do it in the sunshine.
20:19:03 That's one.
20:19:07 Number two are, I have been working on this issue with
20:19:09 Mr. Fletcher now for weeks.
20:19:11 This didn't just pop up.
20:19:16 I can tell you today right here, the -- this -- that was
20:19:17 submitted by the "Tribune."
20:19:20 I can tell you right now and Mr. Fletcher and I talked
20:19:23 about it, some of the things you can not do and be
20:19:23 legally defensible.
20:19:27 I can also tell you based on what our discussion went --
20:19:30 my discussion with him, even if you do the training and
20:19:33 you set a fee, you do not know that the city has to
20:19:39 provide funding in order for that to happen in case some
20:19:41 of the people can't afford it, because under the
20:19:43 Constitution, you have to make sure they have access.
20:19:47 Now given the -- given the crunch we are in and the
20:19:51 budget, we prepare, set aside funding for that?
20:19:54 These are the kind of things I have -- I have been
20:19:55 asking questions.
20:19:58 These are the things I have been talking to Mr. Fletcher
20:19:59 about, okay.
20:20:04 And I agree that we -- we -- you can not -- you can not
20:20:09 get information unless we bring it here and talk about
20:20:13 it, and in the meantime, that's what I have been doing
20:20:16 with Mr. Fletcher, talking to him week after week, week
20:20:17 after week.
20:20:20 I can also tell you based on what I was told that
20:20:23 traffic study could take a long period of time even up
20:20:27 into a year or longer is what I have been told and then
20:20:30 goes back to say, when will the study be done?
20:20:32 At night or at day or at lunch.
20:20:36 A lot of ambiguity relative to that.
20:20:38 These are the kind of things I have been asking
20:20:41 I have been talking to Mr. Fletcher about.
20:20:45 This motion tonight is just simply to get us to talk in
20:20:49 the sunshine, get Mr. Fletcher coming at us, ask more
20:20:52 questions and in the meantime, whatever you have, I want
20:20:55 to have one vote.
20:20:57 That's all I have, one vote.
20:20:58 That's all.
20:20:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Miss Mulhern.
20:21:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Just one last thing.
20:21:04 County commission, that is a complete ban in the county
20:21:05 today on this issue.
20:21:06 Do you all know that?
20:21:09 A complete ban today in Plant City.
20:21:11 Did you know is that?
20:21:15 A complete ban in temple terrace.
20:21:16 Can I tell that you.
20:21:18 >>MARY MULHERN: Can I tell you something said at the
20:21:22 workshop by -- I am not exactly sure who it was but a
20:21:23 high-level county official.
20:21:27 They said we do have a ban on panhandling in the county,
20:21:30 it is just not enforced.
20:21:35 So that kind of put in a nutshell for me and the reality
20:21:39 is no matter what we do, it all depends on the
20:21:42 And when you talk about people feeling threatened or
20:21:46 aggressive panhandling, that is -- that kind of
20:21:48 threatening thing is against the law.
20:21:53 So apparently -- and, you know, the things that people
20:21:56 are doing, that kind of aggressive panhandling is all
20:21:59 about the enforcement.
20:22:04 I was not implying anything about you or anyone else on
20:22:08 I was talking about the fact that this Council has been
20:22:13 pressured to do something about this, but the
20:22:16 information that has been gathered, and the research
20:22:21 that has been done has not been brought back to us by
20:22:22 our staff.
20:22:25 We haven't gotten these reports that they are getting at
20:22:26 this county task force.
20:22:28 They haven't come back here.
20:22:33 So that's what I think needs to happen.
20:22:37 Our second-year motion to put this on a staff report.
20:22:40 I am just not sure that we will be able because we don't
20:22:42 have any of that information at this point.
20:22:46 I am not sure we are going to be able to -- to agree on
20:22:49 what kind of ordinance needs to be passed.
20:22:54 And -- I am talking about the fact that we -- this has
20:22:59 become somehow our responsibility to end panhandling
20:23:06 when the reality is, our city attorneys and staff are
20:23:09 not giving us the information -- even the information we
20:23:11 need to do the right thing.
20:23:14 And that's what I want to happen here.
20:23:17 And I want to apologize to Mr. Caetano.
20:23:20 If you asked for a workshop and I didn't support it, I
20:23:21 am really sorry.
20:23:23 I don't remember -- I don't remember that.
20:23:27 And I am sorry if I didn't support it, because I wish I
20:23:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Let me say something.
20:23:31 I have been listening to all the Councilmembers,
20:23:33 everybody got some good ideas.
20:23:35 You have been saying some of the same things, some of
20:23:39 the things are different, but what I would like to do
20:23:43 for each Councilmember write down -- or type up two
20:23:47 things will stop panhandling, and when we have this
20:23:50 workshop, all our staff members there and whoever you
20:23:51 want to invite.
20:23:53 All the suggestions written down so we can bring it out
20:23:56 and say what we want to say and maybe we can come to
20:23:59 some conclusions but tonight all of us saying --
20:24:02 everybody is saying something and everybody disagreeing.
20:24:04 We are not getting anywhere tonight.
20:24:07 I would like to say write down what you want to say, how
20:24:08 you think it should be handled.
20:24:12 Then whoever makes a motion to do a workshop, can do a
20:24:16 workshop and we can dole all this out and come to some
20:24:18 conclusion if you want to do it or don't want to do it
20:24:20 and just be through with it.
20:24:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I agree with you Madam chair.
20:24:26 In fact we have been so lax here we haven't asked our
20:24:27 police department on what they found on the ordinance
20:24:30 that is in place and the people who violated the
20:24:31 >>MARY MULHERN: We have asked.
20:24:33 We haven't gotten the answers.
20:24:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Haven't gotten the answers.
20:24:39 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to put it all down and write it
20:24:42 down and put it on paper.
20:24:45 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Chief Bennett has been at all the
20:24:49 meetings in the county building.
20:24:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We are over here.
20:24:52 >> The task force we decided to join.
20:24:54 They are coming out with a report in February.
20:24:55 There are no more meetings.
20:24:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's what I am saying.
20:25:00 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to have our own workshop.
20:25:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let's wait for a report to come in.
20:25:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Do we have a workshop?
20:25:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Sure.
20:25:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Let's not make no motions.
20:25:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I am not against information, I am
20:25:14 not against gathering or listening.
20:25:17 If we have workshops and write an ordinance to ban
20:25:19 something without the information, what about the
20:25:22 information that is contrary to what I just banned?
20:25:24 I don't know.
20:25:27 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Madam Chair, I would like to say
20:25:28 one more thing.
20:25:34 I had a long conversation with District 7 Wayne Newton
20:25:39 and he invited -- anybody over on a Sunday their program
20:25:42 is working, it is working well, and not unConstitutional
20:25:46 because "The Times" sued them in court but they turned
20:25:48 around and dropped their suit.
20:25:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Miss Capin.
20:25:52 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Just to add to that.
20:25:55 And you are talking about Pinellas County, right?
20:26:02 Pinellas County just opened a 500-bed --
20:26:05 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Right, he told me that.
20:26:08 >>YVONNE CAPIN: 500-bed roof over homeless people's
20:26:10 We don't have that in place.
20:26:13 Wear strong and decent city, and solutions have to be
20:26:15 strong and decent.
20:26:16 And that is part of it.
20:26:18 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I had a solution to that, and that
20:26:22 was don't spend $2.1 million on those parking meters.
20:26:29 No, I am serious.
20:26:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Write all of those suggestions down.
20:26:32 Write all of those suggestions.
20:26:35 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: He finally walked away and got a
20:26:37 quarter from his --
20:26:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Write all those suggestions.
20:26:40 Reverend Scott, you had a motion.
20:26:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The motion is just -- to come before us
20:26:45 on the staff report for next Thursday.
20:26:50 We don't have to take any action at that time.
20:26:53 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: If you don't like it, change it.
20:26:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Got to wait until he is finished.
20:26:57 I am going to wait until he is finished.
20:27:04 Your motion.
20:27:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The intent is to have the Legal
20:27:14 Department appear before us on our 20th meeting to
20:27:20 discuss with us and also whatever issue you all bring
20:27:24 forth to prohibiting the solicitation and right-of-way
20:27:27 of arterial roads in the City of Tampa.
20:27:28 >> I am sorry if I can.
20:27:29 I want to be clear.
20:27:31 The motion --
20:27:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Under staff report.
20:27:34 >> Under staff report.
20:27:36 Your initial intent when you made the motion initially
20:27:39 was with regard to bringing back an ordinance for -- for
20:27:42 discussion and potential first reading --
20:27:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: He can have an ordinance but --
20:27:47 >>GWEN MILLER: He changed it, didn't have the
20:27:50 He changed that and took the ordinance out.
20:27:52 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: The ordinance could only come
20:27:55 after we have a workshop.
20:27:57 >>GWEN MILLER: He took that out.
20:27:57 A second.
20:27:58 A motion and a second.
20:28:01 All those in favor say aye.
20:28:04 Opposed, nay.
20:28:08 >> Motion carried with Miller voting no.
20:28:14 Correction, motion carried unanimously.
20:28:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Can you finish.
20:28:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No, I have another motion.
20:28:21 The motion was that we reconvene the fourth Thursday of
20:28:22 the month.
20:28:23 What is the workshop.
20:28:24 >> On the 27th.
20:28:29 >> On the 27th that we convened all the -- the legal
20:28:34 department, police department, the -- the homeless
20:28:39 coalition, the metropolitan ministries, Hillsborough
20:28:43 county social service agency to talk about this whole
20:28:46 issue with us.
20:28:49 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Can we invite Mr. Merrill.
20:28:50 >> Mr. Chairman.
20:28:52 I am sorry, Madam.
20:28:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Go ahead.
20:28:56 >> I conferred with the Clerk looking at the calendar.
20:28:59 You have -- how many commendations?
20:29:03 >> Three commendations and five workshops on the 27th.
20:29:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What are they.
20:29:08 >> Workshop for bicycle safety action plan, semi Annual
20:29:11 Report regarding small local business enterprise, women
20:29:15 minority business, final draft of the amendment for
20:29:16 chapter 25.
20:29:19 Workshop for presentation by transportation division on
20:29:21 the truck route study findings.
20:29:24 And a workshop to discuss process for monitoring
20:29:29 alcoholic beverage establishments, compliance et cetera.
20:29:32 >>GWEN MILLER: We don't this then.
20:29:32 We need to change it.
20:29:35 What is the next workshop?
20:29:38 >> The next workshop February 24, two workshops
20:29:41 One to discuss possible changes to the city's noise
20:29:45 ordinance and one for the creation of a small business
20:29:48 revolving loan fund.
20:29:51 >> What time is the next workshop after that.
20:29:53 >> Those are at 9 and 9:30.
20:29:57 The next one will be after 9:30.
20:29:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 10:00.
20:30:01 >>GWEN MILLER: February the what?
20:30:02 >> February 24.
20:30:06 >> It we get a second for that.
20:30:06 >> Second.
20:30:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and a second to have the work
20:30:13 shop February 24 at 10:00.
20:30:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All the nonprofits who have an
20:30:18 >>GWEN MILLER: In all favor of that motion say aye.
20:30:19 Opposed, nay.
20:30:22 >> Motion carried with Miranda being absent at vote.
20:30:25 Just for clarification Mr. Chairman, will the Council be
20:30:27 inviting these people.
20:30:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I will coordinate it through my office.
20:30:32 I will coordinate it.
20:30:33 >> Thank you.
20:30:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Anything else, Chairman Scott?
20:30:38 Councilman Caetano.
20:30:39 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: As everyone read in the paper
20:30:43 today, evidently there is a problem with the water Bills
20:30:44 that are coming out.
20:30:47 I had three people who called me today.
20:30:50 One sent me an E-Mail to my office here, and I did talk
20:30:51 to her.
20:30:59 Her normal water mill is $150 -- Bill is $150 and gets a
20:31:01 $800 water Bill.
20:31:03 I don't know what the problem is.
20:31:06 I went out today and read a couple of meters for
20:31:08 They are pretty upset.
20:31:12 One of them normal Bill was $70 a month and one was
20:31:15 And there is no leaks.
20:31:16 I looked at the meter.
20:31:18 The meter is not moving.
20:31:22 Everything is off.
20:31:24 I don't know what the problem is, whether it is
20:31:27 something erroneous on the meter reader, I don't know
20:31:32 how it is, but we have got to get Mr. Bear in here to
20:31:34 tell us what process they are using.
20:31:37 Is this the same person going out to read the meters?
20:31:41 A big article I think in the "Tribune" today about --
20:31:46 same name as Jeffrey has $800 or something water bill.
20:31:48 His Huggins.
20:31:49 >>MARY MULHERN: I will second.
20:31:52 Do you want to make a motion for a report from --
20:31:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Are you making a motion to have them
20:31:57 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Have them here at the next
20:31:59 What is the problem.
20:32:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: On the 20th.
20:32:02 Moved and seconded.
20:32:05 All in favor signify by saying aye.
20:32:07 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I will talk to him personally to
20:32:08 find out what is going on.
20:32:14 >> I am sorry, could you state that for the record.
20:32:16 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: We want the water department
20:32:19 manager to come here and give us an analysis of what is
20:32:22 the process for reading a meter, how do they read it,
20:32:24 the same person that goes back every month to read the
20:32:27 I don't know what they are doing.
20:32:30 >> That is under staff reports next week?
20:32:36 Thank you.
20:32:38 >> Mr. Caetano, did you want him to address the concern
20:32:41 of major discrepancies.
20:32:44 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Why the discrepancies.
20:32:48 From $100 and again to $800 something.
20:32:49 That is ridiculous.
20:32:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any new business.
20:32:54 >>MARY MULHERN: That was my new business.
20:32:56 One of my new businesses.
20:33:00 You take care of that in Dana Shores and New Tampa.
20:33:02 What -- that was one of them.
20:33:08 Second one I want to ask Council to pass a resolution in
20:33:11 support of the one bay regional vision at our next
20:33:13 Council meeting.
20:33:18 And so we will have that resolution.
20:33:20 >> Do you want placed on the agenda -- do you have a
20:33:21 copy for the Clerk?
20:33:23 >> Oh, do I?
20:33:24 I think I do actually.
20:33:27 I have the resolution here.
20:33:30 >> That will appear on the next agenda.
20:33:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So that is the resolution to appear on
20:33:33 the next agenda.
20:33:35 >> For a vote.
20:33:35 Not tonight.
20:33:37 Just a motion --
20:33:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: My point is, it is a resolution to
20:33:45 appear on the next meeting.
20:33:46 >>MARY MULHERN: January 20.
20:33:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I am making a point.
20:33:49 I am making a point.
20:33:52 >>MARY MULHERN: A resolution, not an ordinance.
20:33:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Still the process is still the same.
20:33:57 >>MARY MULHERN: I have one other piece of new business.
20:33:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: A second to that motion.
20:33:59 All right.
20:34:01 I am good at processing.
20:34:02 Moved and seconded.
20:34:07 All in favor -- moved and seconded.
20:34:09 All in favor signify by saying aye.
20:34:11 >>MARY MULHERN: And then my other piece of new
20:34:16 Chairman Scott took care of, but I am going to ask for
20:34:20 another -- I am going to make another motion to add to
20:34:26 your request for -- regarding panhandling and this is
20:34:35 just to ask that TPD, legal, anyone who has been
20:34:39 participating in those county meetings next week provide
20:34:42 us with the report that has been submitted to that
20:34:46 committee because they referred to, like, two or three
20:34:48 different reports at the meeting I went to last week and
20:34:49 we haven't seen any of them.
20:34:51 So I would like to see those.
20:34:55 And I would like everyone else to be able to see them.
20:34:59 That perhaps we could have those submitted to us before
20:35:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I agree.
20:35:04 >>MARY MULHERN: Before next week's meeting.
20:35:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The whole intent to get all the
20:35:07 information before the meeting to be prepared to talk
20:35:08 about in the meeting.
20:35:10 Is there a second?
20:35:12 Is there a second to that motion?
20:35:13 Moved and seconded.
20:35:17 All in favor signify by saying aye.
20:35:18 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, when we have that
20:35:21 workshop, is the general public going to be --
20:35:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yeah, always a public meeting.
20:35:27 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Do we have to allow each person
20:35:29 three minutes to repeat the same thing?
20:35:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The rule is 30 minutes public comments
20:35:36 on -- behind each workshop.
20:35:39 30 minutes.
20:35:42 Once you reach 30 minutes that's it.
20:35:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to receive and file.
20:35:45 >> Second.
20:35:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.
20:35:51 Anything else?
20:35:52 All right, we stand adjourned.
20:35:53 Thank you.
The above represents an unedited version of realtime captioning which
should neither be relied upon for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
The original of this file was produced in all capital letters and any variation
thereto may be a result of third party edits and software compatibility issues.
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the proceedings may need to
hire a court reporter.