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TAMPA CITY COUNCIL

Thursday, January 20, 2011

9:00 a.m. and 1:30 p.m. sessions

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09:03:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come to

09:03:15 order.

09:03:16 The chair will yield to councilman Stokes.

09:03:18 >> Thank you very much, Chairman Scott.

09:03:20 This morning I would like to introduce reverend Dr.

09:03:23 Mason to give us our invocation this morning.

09:03:26 Dr. Mason acknowledged his call to ministry in 1986 and

09:03:32 licensed and ordained under the late Dr. F. G. Hilton,

09:03:37 having served as deacon and trustee of St. John's

09:03:41 Baptist church.

09:03:42 In 1998 he founded the church of Temple Terrace, a

09:03:49 Bible believing spirit congregation that is committed

09:03:53 to the Biblical mandate to go make disciples

09:03:56 The church continues to extend God's kingdom and

09:03:59 creates a local imprint for the global impact, is

09:04:04 involved in the African relief, a relief effort of 28

09:04:10 villages, in Gambia with Dr. Mary Lindsey and has shown

09:04:17 commitment to all God's children.

09:04:19 Pastor Mason is very active in the community and

09:04:21 provides quality treasures in several civic originals

09:04:27 relative to the youth and senior citizens.

09:04:29 He is a member of the Temple Terrace Chamber of

09:04:31 Commerce, the Florida faith-based association, Temple

09:04:35 Terrace and NAACP.

09:04:38 Pastor Mason has also conducted numerous workshops in

09:04:41 areas of music ministry, church leadership, and Bible

09:04:48 software problems.

09:04:49 Pastor Mason resides in Seffner, Florida with his wife

09:04:53 Peggy and children.

09:04:56 Pastor Mason.

09:04:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Stand and remain standing for the




09:05:02 pledge of allegiance.

09:05:03 >> God our father, we thank you for this day, thank you

09:05:10 for this time, thank you for this council, thank you

09:05:15 for the citizens and those who have come with concerns,

09:05:19 complaints, challenges.

09:05:21 We pray that your power of freedom, of blessings be

09:05:29 bestowed upon us, that we might conduct this meeting as

09:05:34 most meetings, in a manner that would cause this city

09:05:36 to be an attractive city, this community to be an

09:05:41 exciting community and attract other businesses and the

09:05:46 like to come to our area.

09:05:49 Make this place safe for us.

09:05:52 And thank you for this council and their commitment to

09:05:54 do so.

09:05:55 In your name we pray.

09:05:56 Amen.

09:05:57 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]

09:06:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Roll call.

09:06:18 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.

09:06:21 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Present.

09:06:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.

09:06:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.




09:06:25 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.

09:06:27 >>CURTIS STOKES: Present.

09:06:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.

09:06:29 Okay, thank you, Dr. Mason.

09:06:35 Thank you for being here today.

09:06:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to approve the minutes.

09:06:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: There's a motion and second.

09:06:41 All in favor?

09:06:42 Opposes?

09:06:42 We will now review our agenda.

09:06:43 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, members

09:06:45 of City Council. In front of you, you have the

09:06:47 addendum to today's agenda.

09:06:49 The first item of business is to ask that an item be

09:06:54 taken up under new business.

09:06:55 Early, I believe is Mr. Territo here?

09:07:01 I believe you received a memorandum from Mr. Territo

09:07:03 considering the resolution in connection with the

09:07:06 proposed issuance of solid waste refunding revenue

09:07:09 bonds in order to refund certain outstanding bonds.

09:07:13 You have that.

09:07:13 I ask that be added to the agenda and that council move




09:07:16 the resolution, please. Did you wish to take that up

09:07:21 now?

09:07:22 >> Well, we'll just cover it all at once.

09:07:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Okay.

09:07:27 Then item 1 is a request to substitute the ordinance

09:07:32 relating to installation of encroachment by Florida

09:07:38 Health Science Center, Inc.

09:07:43 Item number 58, it is a request that items should be

09:07:48 considered subsequent to the adoption of the council

09:07:51 calendar, so the item 58 is being asked to remove that

09:07:56 from the consent docket and to place that under staff

09:07:59 reports to be taken up after the calendar is adopted.

09:08:03 Item number 67.

09:08:04 And I believe council member Capin has another request.

09:08:09 And I am not aware of any others.

09:08:11 I present it for your approval.

09:08:15 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I ask that we pull number 53 off the

09:08:18 consent agenda and hold it till after we take up number

09:08:23 67 under staff reports.

09:08:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And that's a resolution setting a

09:08:29 public hearing, and I believe your request is to

09:08:32 address that after the calendar is adopted.




09:08:34 >> Correct.

09:08:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Other than that, members of council,

09:08:38 I am not aware of any other changes to today's agenda

09:08:41 and I present it for your approval.

09:08:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.

09:08:46 >> Second.

09:08:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

09:08:48 All in favor?

09:08:50 Opposes?

09:08:51 Okay.

09:08:55 At this time we'll take public comment.

09:09:05 We set aside 30 minutes for public comments so those

09:09:08 who wish to speak may come forward at this time and

09:09:10 address council.

09:09:11 Now, I need to get a sense, I guess, and see how many

09:09:14 people want to be speak on public comment, if you will

09:09:17 raise your hands so we can get a sense of it.

09:09:23 So we have -- if you want to speak hold your hand up so

09:09:25 we can get a sense.

09:09:35 Okay.

09:09:36 We might be able to make it.

09:09:39 Okay.




09:09:43 If you are speaking, will you come line up at this

09:09:44 time, please?

09:09:45 Along the wall.

09:09:46 >> Pete Johnson, 6113 MARGO drive, Tampa, Florida.

09:09:54 I'm back.

09:09:57 Not technically but I'm back.

09:09:59 I want to talk about the panhandling and what I have

09:10:00 seen, okay?

09:10:13 Handing out newspapers.

09:10:16 I have reported people being drunk or disorderly to the

09:10:19 point that they are dancing all over the street on

09:10:21 Busch.

09:10:22 And Nebraska.

09:10:27 We have to do something about it.

09:10:28 I mean, it is a particular problem everywhere.

09:10:31 As far as limiting it to only specific streets or

09:10:38 specific areas, it's not fair to the rest of the

09:10:40 neighborhoods in the rest of the city, because if you

09:10:43 limit it on Dale Mabry they are going to pack up on

09:10:49 north Nebraska Avenue more than the drug dealers and

09:10:52 the prostitutes are.

09:10:53 It's getting ridiculous. We live in a society that




09:10:57 does not tolerate this.

09:11:00 I want to tell you a little story about myself, which

09:11:02 most of you know.

09:11:05 I am on full disability.

09:11:07 I cannot get work.

09:11:08 I live on $1400 a month.

09:11:11 The state is going to charge me $700 a month for the

09:11:15 medication that I need to live on.

09:11:17 That gives me $700 for my rent, my electric, my phone,

09:11:22 my food, my car insurance and gas.

09:11:27 Let alone maybe a cocktail.

09:11:30 But I'll be damned if I am going to lower myself to the

09:11:33 point of standing on a street corner begging people for

09:11:36 money.

09:11:37 Now, some people have it worse off than I do and I

09:11:41 understand that.

09:11:41 But they can get other kinds of assistance.

09:11:43 I can't even get food stamps or any kind of other

09:11:47 assistance from either the state, the city or the

09:11:50 federal government because my $1400 a month is too

09:11:53 much.

09:11:56 That's about all I have to say about it.




09:11:58 But please, we have to do something about this

09:12:02 city-wide, not just in specific areas where the

09:12:06 tourists are going to see it.

09:12:07 We have to do it city-wide.

09:12:09 And it's disrupting the neighborhoods tremendously.

09:12:12 Thank you.

09:12:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, I apologize, but I

09:12:17 neglected to inform the public here this morning that

09:12:21 items that are placed on the agenda for staff reports

09:12:26 are not public hearings.

09:12:28 So again, for instance, the solicitation ordinance, or

09:12:30 the water bill issue, those will not have public

09:12:33 hearings so the proper time to speak is during citizen

09:12:35 comment at this time in the agenda.

09:12:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

09:12:40 >> Now or not now for the water bill?

09:12:42 Okay.

09:12:42 My name is Fern Rabil, I live at 8939 Magnolia street

09:12:47 circle in Tampa.

09:12:48 Good mornings and thank you for this opportunity to be

09:12:50 heard on the water bill issue.

09:12:52 I am one of the many City of Tampa water customers who




09:12:55 has an exceedingly high bill due to alleged high usage.

09:12:58 I am a widow and single mom.

09:13:02 Yes, I run the clothes and dishwasher every day but I

09:13:05 have always done that.

09:13:06 Nothing changed to increase my usage.

09:13:08 In fact several weeks ago I shut my automatic

09:13:10 irrigation system off because I heard a commercial

09:13:13 about every other week watering being enough during

09:13:15 this time of year.

09:13:16 After I received my record-breaking bill I called the

09:13:19 water department and was told a running toilet was

09:13:22 probably to blame so I had a licensed plumber come out,

09:13:25 $138 later the man found no leaks on my properties.

09:13:28 My irrigation is also checked regularly.

09:13:31 In looking at my past usage a year ago I had to twice

09:13:36 fill a $16 -- a.m. 16,000-gallon pool.

09:13:40 In those two billing cycles my usage, just usage is

09:13:45 half of what I am currently being billed for. We are

09:13:48 all on budgets

09:13:51 A large young active family and New Tampa home.

09:13:54 I have a neighbor with a bill of $2700, he would have

09:13:58 had to fill and dump his pool 15 times in that period




09:14:01 and he wasn't even in Tampa for a good period.

09:14:03 Another neighbor is a priest who lives alone with a

09:14:06 bill of $1400.

09:14:06 Yes, the bills are inflated because of the tiered

09:14:09 system that penalizes large families for bathing and

09:14:13 watering and washing dishes but we are talking

09:14:15 impossible alleged volume.

09:14:17 My meter was change out late this year.

09:14:19 Was it installed and calibrated correctly?

09:14:22 I checked my meter this morning before I came here.

09:14:24 If I total my usage for the last 15 days over the next

09:14:27 60-day period I'm back to my normal usage level so

09:14:31 where is the leak there?

09:14:32 If I had a leak, you would see it.

09:14:34 And because this is a utility we are being held

09:14:37 hostage.

09:14:37 There's obviously something wrong here.

09:14:39 Must we pay these bills in full or be penalized with

09:14:42 late fees or shut off service?

09:14:44 Or may we pay good faith estimates in the meantime

09:14:47 while this is hashed out?

09:14:50 We received no comment other than a deal can be worked




09:14:51 out if a leak is found.

09:14:52 But what about those of us who have no leaks? Had

09:14:58 never had leaks before as the city alleges.

09:15:01 The city's attitude is arrogant and condescending.

09:15:06 I urge you all especially Mr. Caetano of district 7 to

09:15:11 please get to the bottom of this.

09:15:12 Thank you.

09:15:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.

09:15:14 Next speaker.

09:15:14 >> Good morning.

09:15:17 My name is Ann Johnson.

09:15:19 My address is 9456 Highland oak drive in Tampa.

09:15:25 I'm here -- my official capacity is manager of Hunter's

09:15:29 Green in New Tampa which has a little over 1500 homes.

09:15:35 I am not here in that official capacity.

09:15:38 I'm here based on the number of telephone calls that we

09:15:41 have received across our community with concern on the

09:15:45 water bills.

09:15:47 As of yesterday afternoon, that number was over 200.

09:15:50 I don't know if all of these have been reported to the

09:15:53 city water department or not, but it was very -- I was

09:15:58 very disappointed this morning when I read in the paper




09:16:00 the position that's being taken.

09:16:02 We are hearing a lot about the water bills that are

09:16:05 exceeding $2,000.

09:16:07 What I wanted you to hear was the number of people that

09:16:10 are calling us whose average water bill never went over

09:16:15 $70 and they are getting hit with bills from 270 to

09:16:19 435.

09:16:20 A lot of these people are on fixed income.

09:16:23 They are terrified they are not going to be able to

09:16:25 meet those payments, and they are very afraid that this

09:16:29 is going to be the norm going forward.

09:16:32 We would ask that whatever needs to be done to be

09:16:36 relook at these situations that does take place.

09:16:40 We are being put in a position now based on what I read

09:16:43 this morning that we are going to have to tell all

09:16:45 these people who called up to contact the city

09:16:48 independently for themselves, and I would imagine given

09:16:53 the time it has taken for some of the investigation

09:16:57 that has occurred, that these people are going to be --

09:17:03 past their past due date.

09:17:05 I hope the council will look at this.

09:17:07 This is a serious issue.




09:17:08 I would like to thank you for your time on behalf of

09:17:10 our residents.

09:17:11 >> thank you very much.

09:17:14 >> My name is Tonya Wideman.

09:17:19 I used to live at 7407 south fluke street.

09:17:25 Maybe this in the paper was currently at that time my

09:17:28 neighbor.

09:17:29 I had a situation with the city.

09:17:36 My water be transferred because there was a dispute

09:17:39 over a bill that came up on my water bill.

09:17:42 I went two, three months without water, you know,

09:17:45 trying to resolve the matter.

09:17:47 And my biggest problem was I went to the mayor's office

09:17:50 six, seven times.

09:17:51 I stood there while they text, called their chief of

09:17:57 operations and I met with them.

09:17:59 He said to my face, get rid of her.

09:18:02 You know, I mean, these are elderly people.

09:18:07 They can't afford to be held 30 minutes, an hour,

09:18:11 whatever.

09:18:12 City Hall plays brutal games.

09:18:14 They don't play nice, believe me.




09:18:16 We just settled the case a week ago today because I

09:18:20 sued their chief of operations over the matter.

09:18:23 So, you know, I'm just asking City Hall on behalf of

09:18:26 the residents and the people, respond to them.

09:18:30 My situation could have been resolved in a matter of

09:18:33 five or ten minutes.

09:18:34 Yet it took months.

09:18:35 I had to go without water.

09:18:37 I ended up still paying the bill.

09:18:40 I'm not going to give you the outcome, but I ended up

09:18:44 out of money, paying the city for something they

09:18:47 clearly didn't even render a service on two occasions

09:18:52 and I ended up without water.

09:18:54 So I'm not elderly, but still I'm poor.

09:18:57 I needed my water.

09:18:59 And I'm just asking Mr. Daignault, the mayor.

09:19:03 I mean, these are all people in this -- Brickhouse,

09:19:09 don't stall the people.

09:19:10 Don't tell 'em like you told me it's beneath you to

09:19:18 handle for the taxpayer.

09:19:19 I would like to leave this for the council, please.

09:19:21 >> Thank you very much.




09:19:25 Next speaker.

09:19:25 >> My name is Barbara Malley, 6204 emens lane in Tampa,

09:19:34 Tampa Palms.

09:19:34 I have $2500 water bill.

09:19:36 I cannot fathom that I have a leaky toilet or leaky

09:19:42 anything that is causing 183,000 gallons of water.

09:19:45 I have gone historically from 56 to 71 CCF to 224 this

09:19:51 last billing cycle.

09:19:53 70% of the homes on my street have recorded usage by

09:19:56 the city between 163% and 278% last year D.all of our

09:20:08 toilets simultaneously commit suicide?

09:20:11 How do you explain the houses that are shut off and

09:20:15 people have hired leak detectors and found no leaks?

09:20:18 Why isn't anyone addressing the possibility that there

09:20:21 is an issue on their side?

09:20:23 I heard from an engineer that spent 23 years analyzing

09:20:27 utility bills and recommending ways to conserve energy.

09:20:30 He says it's perfectly obvious what the problem is --

09:20:34 air in the piping system.

09:20:36 The construction all around is a likely cause of the

09:20:39 introduction of air into the system.

09:20:41 Anytime the system is opened to accommodate expansion,




09:20:45 new construction, deterioration repairs, et cetera, air

09:20:49 enters the system and collects at high points.

09:20:52 In other areas of the country, this isn't a large

09:20:55 problem because of large changes in elevation.

09:20:58 It is easy to identify high points and install

09:21:02 automatic air valves.

09:21:04 To purge the air from the distribution system.

09:21:06 With Florida being as flat as it is, identifying high

09:21:11 spots is much more difficult.

09:21:13 In fact the elevation changes provides many

09:21:18 opportunities for air to a cult ultimate.

09:21:21 After the system is repressurized air is pushed along

09:21:23 the distribution system until it finds either an air

09:21:27 release valve or meter to escape.

09:21:30 Air will cause a meter to spin at very high rates

09:21:34 indicating high consumption.

09:21:36 And I think that's exactly what has happened here.

09:21:39 There was a disruption of service in our areas in the

09:21:41 last billing cycle which got the scenario into action.

09:21:46 I think that looking into people's usage in the billing

09:21:49 cycle will show that the numbers have gone back to

09:21:51 normal.




09:21:52 Confirming this theory and raising questions to how

09:21:55 these leaks disappeared.

09:21:57 I feel the water department has a responsibility to

09:22:00 look into this.

09:22:02 Also, why the City of Tampa feels they should be

09:22:05 raising our water rates higher with this tier system.

09:22:09 The resolutions and ordinances empowering the current

09:22:12 tier water billing system specifically states they

09:22:17 shall be based upon the quantity of water determined by

09:22:19 metering, furnished to each premise each billing

09:22:24 period.

09:22:24 The city uses a monthly billing period, but the city

09:22:29 doesn't read the meters every month.

09:22:30 Many own verse Talib to four months of estimated bills

09:22:33 in a row before a reading.

09:22:35 This ordinance is not being followed.

09:22:38 According to the city's web page, in the months where

09:22:40 there is no reading, the city uses an average of the

09:22:44 prior year's usages.

09:22:45 That is not mentioned in the ordinance as approved by

09:22:48 the City Council.

09:22:50 According to the city's web page when the meter is




09:22:53 finally read the payments for the estimated months are

09:22:55 subtracted from the amount due, but in the month the

09:22:58 meter is read, the full two to four months of usage is

09:23:02 billed pushing the usage into hire tiers.

09:23:07 (Bell sounds).

09:23:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

09:23:08 >> Following --

09:23:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Your time is up.

09:23:12 Thank you.

09:23:12 Next speaker.

09:23:12 >> My name is Louise Loooke.

09:23:19 I live at 36082 beach drive, Tampa.

09:23:23 My problem was May of 2009.

09:23:27 Rather than to go into the details, I would like to

09:23:30 give this correspondence between me and the city to you

09:23:34 people.

09:23:37 We have a problem.

09:23:44 And it has continued a long time.

09:23:50 I think I can give you recommendations.

09:23:56 We have a lot of young people that I know probably have

09:23:59 their degrees in management, maybe their masters or

09:24:03 doctors and they are 24, 25 years old, they are looking




09:24:05 for jobs, and this is the time for the City of Tampa to

09:24:10 hire.

09:24:11 Maybe as a new supervisor.

09:24:14 Also, you need a troubleshooter on your staff, not as a

09:24:19 consultant for a million dollars an hour, but on your

09:24:22 staff.

09:24:24 If there is a problem, and they say, oh, the sprinkler

09:24:28 system that's doing it, you can determine the amount of

09:24:30 water that goes through a sprinkler system and tell

09:24:34 that person, this is the amount of water that you use.

09:24:37 Now, when I had a problem, I had a new meter put in and

09:24:42 I had a ten-day billing period, and they billed me for

09:24:47 enough water that if I had run my faucet in the kitchen

09:24:53 for four days straight, that would be equivalent to the

09:24:55 bill.

09:24:56 And they said, oh, well, we don't have to pay part of

09:25:05 this, but we will pay part of this.

09:25:07 In the letter they say we can only do this once a year.

09:25:10 That's not true.

09:25:11 You can only do it once a year unless the city is at

09:25:15 fault, and then they can rebate you more.

09:25:18 I think personally that the meter that was put in was




09:25:24 not correct.

09:25:25 Now, the fellow that put it in, I know the numbers were

09:25:29 correct because I was there when he put down the

09:25:32 numbers.

09:25:32 And then when the billing period was there, that was

09:25:37 correct, too.

09:25:38 But I think that meter needed to be calibrated.

09:25:42 The meter itself was two years old and Hillsborough

09:25:44 numbers on it but I asked the city to calibrate it and

09:25:47 they said, no, they would not, that there's in a way

09:25:49 that a meter would not be calibrated correctly.

09:25:54 And also if you get a young waste management or water

09:25:58 management person, they can get on that computer and

09:26:04 they can spit out these high bills, and you can say,

09:26:08 hey, what's going on here?

09:26:09 We are not dealing with oil, we are dealing with water.

09:26:14 And the consumption of water is very important to us.

09:26:17 And so I think that there's a problem and it's got to

09:26:22 be solved.

09:26:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

09:26:24 Next speaker.

09:26:25 >> My name is Katherine Inglis, 15702 cochester road,




09:26:40 New Tampa, Tampa Palms.

09:26:41 I'm here to discuss my water bill as well.

09:26:45 There are only two people living in my home.

09:26:48 Our average water bill every month is anywhere from 150

09:26:52 to 220 dollars

09:26:54 And in November, I got a bill for 505.60.

09:27:00 And so I called the water company and we had a

09:27:04 discussion and we talked about probable causes, and

09:27:09 they did send somebody out to check for exterior leaks

09:27:12 and they found none.

09:27:13 In the meantime, I did have the plumber come out to

09:27:16 check the interior of the house for leaks, and I also

09:27:21 had the irrigation system inspected again.

09:27:24 The irrigation system is inspected every year or twice

09:27:27 a year, so I really did not have any issues that could

09:27:32 be causing such a big water bill.

09:27:35 So then my next bill in December was an estimate for

09:27:39 $169.27.

09:27:42 And I thought, oh, good, I got everything corrected,

09:27:45 everything is back on track and I'm doing fine.

09:27:47 Then I get my bill for January and it's $1043.85.

09:27:54 And my usage is the same.




09:27:57 Nothing has changed.

09:27:59 And I know everybody's situation is different, but I

09:28:01 myself am also on a budget, on a fixed income and I

09:28:05 can't afford $1,000 water bills every month.

09:28:08 Can't do it.

09:28:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Something wrong somewhere.

09:28:11 >> I think the water company has to accept some

09:28:15 responsibility because something is wrong.

09:28:16 Thank you.

09:28:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, ma'am.

09:28:20 Next speaker, please.

09:28:21 >> I'm Suzanne Austin, in Dana Shores.

09:28:28 I would like to make a suggestion because it seems like

09:28:31 there's a discrepancy between what the city is saying

09:28:34 and what the citizens are saying.

09:28:36 But maybe we take a look at individual neighborhoods,

09:28:41 for instance, Dana Shores who has less than 300 houses.

09:28:45 Take a look at the percentage of homes who have more

09:28:49 than double their water bills for the December reading

09:28:51 as opposed to the previous 12 months to see if in fact

09:28:57 there is an issue, and that once this is determined,

09:29:00 then the appropriate people can take responsibility.




09:29:04 I feel like it hasn't been investigated enough, and if

09:29:09 you do that, then possibly you can alleviate all these

09:29:14 issues.

09:29:14 Thank you.

09:29:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, ma'am.

09:29:18 Next speaker, please.

09:29:18 >> Good morning, council.

09:29:25 W. Carswell, 3625 East Idlewild Avenue.

09:29:29 And I'm here this morning because of high water bill.

09:29:35 I have been a resident at my house for over 30 years.

09:29:40 I moved in there when I was 19 and I'm 56 years old

09:29:43 now.

09:29:44 And it's only two people in the house.

09:29:47 And my average bill runs normally under $50 a month,

09:29:52 and all of a sudden it in the last couple of months has

09:29:54 been $347.

09:29:57 And I came down to the water department, and I asked

09:30:02 them what was the problem.

09:30:04 They are telling me that it's on my side.

09:30:06 Okay.

09:30:07 I they put this blue stuff in the toilet.

09:30:11 I did all of that.




09:30:12 No leaks.

09:30:13 And I address it when they say my usage was 25.

09:30:19 Okay.

09:30:20 And I asked them to come out at that time.

09:30:23 Nobody came out.

09:30:26 They told me to do it.

09:30:27 And that was in August, okay?

09:30:30 And that's when it first raised -- if you look at my

09:30:34 overall history, the water usage is consistent.

09:30:38 And I told them just look at my history on it.

09:30:41 They wouldn't do it.

09:30:44 The attitude of employees down there, they put you on

09:30:47 hold.

09:30:47 If you call, you are on hold too long and you are

09:30:50 either going to hang -- they let you hang yourself up.

09:30:53 If you go down, I mean, the attitude they take, they

09:31:00 take you through musical chairs.

09:31:01 Well, let me get my boss and let me get my boss, you

09:31:07 know what I mean?

09:31:08 I don't know, something need to be done with it.

09:31:11 And I work in construction, and I been a plumber's

09:31:15 helper before so I know what to look for.




09:31:18 Something needs to be done about it because I can't

09:31:20 afford 300-some-dollars a month on a water bill.

09:31:24 Thank you.

09:31:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.

09:31:26 Next speaker.

09:31:26 >> Good morning.

09:31:37 I'd like to address item number 64 on the agenda.

09:31:40 The proposed ordinance to prohibit solicitation in the

09:31:43 rights-of-way on major roads is not an ordinance

09:31:47 drafted by the authors of the city attorney but rather

09:31:50 a company of the one that was adopted by St. Pete.

09:31:55 As a matter of fact, if you lay the two side by side,

09:31:58 the only difference is a slight change of wording and

09:32:05 the city seal.

09:32:06 This is a great school attempt at copy and paste.

09:32:10 Chip and his honorable staff are much more capable of

09:32:14 better work than this.

09:32:15 I know because we have worked together in the past.

09:32:21 This is the easy way out.

09:32:25 Look at St. Pete.

09:32:26 What happened?

09:32:28 Sure, the panhandlers were forced off the street, but




09:32:31 is the city a safer place to live?

09:32:36 Are the streets safer?

09:32:37 What it did was take away the only opportunity that

09:32:40 many had to make an honest living by selling

09:32:44 newspapers.

09:32:47 It added to the unemployment rate and made a tough time

09:32:50 even tougher for some.

09:32:51 It didn't solve the homeless issue.

09:32:54 In fact, there are so many people sleeping in front of

09:32:57 City Hall and on the sidewalks that they had to resort

09:33:00 to spraying them down with perfume.

09:33:03 Those that could migrated here adding to our

09:33:06 challenges, compounded by the harsh recession that we

09:33:10 are in.

09:33:12 St. Pete's council decision just made our challenges

09:33:16 even greater.

09:33:19 At the rate local governments are going by passing the

09:33:21 buck on their neighbors, who is next?

09:33:23 Orlando?

09:33:24 Lakeland?

09:33:25 Pasco?

09:33:27 Atlanta?




09:33:30 Recently he would were engaged with the committee on

09:33:36 panhandling.

09:33:36 We shared our willingness to work with the

09:33:41 municipalities as well as the cities, and in good faith

09:33:44 presented reasonable alternatives and solutions.

09:33:49 Mr. Lake has been gracious enough to be propose a draft

09:33:53 ordinance which addresses safety, change, provide

09:34:02 account data and realistic alternatives.

09:34:06 If you haven't had a chance to look at it, I strongly

09:34:09 suggest that you do.

09:34:13 Please take a good hard look at our proposals which

09:34:16 also included option for helping the homeless such as

09:34:20 what is being done in Key West and in Orlando.

09:34:26 Before adopting this ordinance as it's written, please

09:34:29 reconsider.

09:34:33 By doing so, you will take away the only means that a

09:34:37 lot of people have at making a good, decent, honest

09:34:42 living.

09:34:43 It will add to the unemployment rate and might even add

09:34:47 to the crime rate.

09:34:50 Mr. Scott, you once said that you would much rather

09:34:53 have people trying to make an honest living than them




09:34:58 breaking into your house.

09:35:02 Also, thousands of people in the bay area choose to buy

09:35:07 their papers this way.

09:35:08 Well bell

09:35:10 (Bell sounds)

09:35:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: State your name for the record.

09:35:11 >> It also -- my name is Dan Kenny with the "St. Pete

09:35:14 Times."

09:35:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thanks very much.

09:35:17 Next speaker.

09:35:21 >> Good morning.

09:35:23 I am Paula Orandash, the coordinator for the muscular

09:35:29 dystrophy association, also speaking today about the

09:35:31 solicitation ban.

09:35:34 As a nonprofit organization, we provide direct services

09:35:37 to nearly 1,000 families in this area who come to us

09:35:42 for medical care, equipment, funding, resources

09:35:48 referral, summer catch programs.

09:35:50 We have a huge program of services that we do not

09:35:53 charge MDA families for, and in today's economy,

09:35:57 families are looking towards charities and social

09:36:01 service organizations for more help.




09:36:04 And that's why we are so passionate about our

09:36:08 firefighters being out on the streets helping with our

09:36:11 food drive.

09:36:13 Last year alone, our Tampa, Hillsborough County

09:36:16 firefighters raised $130,000 for us here in this area.

09:36:21 And that alone will help pay for us to provide clinical

09:36:25 services at St. Josephs children's hospital in Tampa

09:36:30 where we see children and adults twice a month, where

09:36:34 over 400 families were seen last year alone, not to

09:36:37 mention the 300 families we see in our Tampa clinic at

09:36:41 St. Anthony's hospital.

09:36:44 Specialty clinics, neurological evaluations that most

09:36:47 people do not have access to because of their health

09:36:49 care, but are available to us, and because of the fact

09:36:54 that our firefighters can go out and do a in

09:36:59 a-cost-to-us by being out there filling the boot.

09:37:03 So what we would ask is that consideration be made,

09:37:06 instead of a full-out ban on solicitation, is that

09:37:09 there will be some regulation to the ban, putting

09:37:13 specific requirements on charities, and who we have out

09:37:16 there raising money for our families and the support

09:37:19 services we provide to them.




09:37:21 Thank you so much.

09:37:21 >> Thank you, ma'am.

09:37:25 Next speaker.

09:37:26 >> My name is Brenda Campou.

09:37:36 I thank you, you can council, for the opportunity to

09:37:38 speak before you today.

09:37:40 And I am here also representing the Muscular Dystrophy

09:37:42 Association.

09:37:43 My husband and daughter have a form of muscular

09:37:47 dystrophy.

09:37:48 It's muscular dystrophy.

09:37:51 They are the only two people here in the State of

09:37:53 Florida that have this type of muscular dystrophy.

09:37:56 The services provided by the Muscular Dystrophy

09:37:57 Association go to get their therapy, get their medical

09:38:05 care.

09:38:05 In today's economy -- my daughter is 26 years old.

09:38:08 She's working.

09:38:09 She's college educated but she cannot afford health

09:38:11 insurance.

09:38:12 We cannot put her on health insurance because she's too

09:38:15 old.




09:38:15 Without the Muscular Dystrophy Association she would

09:38:18 not get the medical care that she so desperately needs.

09:38:21 She would not get the physical therapy she needs.

09:38:24 The money that's raised from the firefighters in their

09:38:29 boot drive helps to raise money to take care of not

09:38:31 only her but many other families with muscular

09:38:35 dystrophy.

09:38:38 There are over 400 families just here in Tampa that are

09:38:41 treated by the Muscular Dystrophy Association.

09:38:45 We ask that you not put a full-out ban like they did in

09:38:49 St. Petersburg, but that you give due consideration to

09:38:54 organizations like the firefighters.

09:38:57 And I don't know who else raises money by street

09:39:02 solicitation but we ask that you take consideration

09:39:04 for -- I can't think of the word, but for organizations

09:39:13 that are legitimate.

09:39:14 Legitimate organizations that had you take due

09:39:16 consideration for legitimate organizations to help them

09:39:22 raise money for these organizations that they are

09:39:24 trying to help.

09:39:24 We know that the firefighters are not out there running

09:39:26 out there being dangerous in the street.




09:39:29 They are trained to teach people safety.

09:39:33 And we know that the money that they are raising by the

09:39:35 boot are being raised safely.

09:39:39 They don't just run out there because somebody has a

09:39:41 window open.

09:39:42 They make sure that it is safe before they go out there

09:39:48 and get their boot drive.

09:39:50 So thank you for the opportunity to speak before you.

09:39:52 >> My name is Roger Kruzel.

09:40:07 I am not prepared to do this, but I have CMP.

09:40:11 I have been with muscular dystrophy since 1986.

09:40:15 I'm 57 years old.

09:40:18 And it's through this organization that I have the

09:40:23 chance to step ahead.

09:40:31 The very chair I am standing in was donated by muscular

09:40:36 dystrophy and has allowed me to now be a college

09:40:39 student.

09:40:43 The firefighters are trained to do a difficult job

09:40:50 which they hope and we hope will never happen.

09:40:57 And they don't get any practice to do it.

09:40:59 If they are willing to step out on their own, on

09:41:04 somebody else's cause, should be taken into




09:41:08 consideration with the other people have mentioned, and

09:41:15 some kind of delegation as of the panhandling

09:41:23 situation.

09:41:26 If we are willing to do for them like they do for other

09:41:33 people, people like me to have a chance, should be

09:41:35 taken into consideration.

09:41:36 Thank you.

09:41:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.

09:41:38 Before the next speaker comes, we have gone over the

09:41:41 30-minute time that has been allocated.

09:41:44 What I would propose, council, at this time is he would

09:41:47 allow the people on the wall and those standing two

09:41:50 minutes, which in essence they get two and a half

09:41:54 minutes by the clock, okay?

09:41:55 So then reset the clock, two minutes each person, only

09:41:58 those standing on the wall.

09:42:00 Otherwise, you have to come back this afternoon.

09:42:02 >> My name is Suzy Austin.

09:42:06 I'm a regional director for the Muscular Dystrophy

09:42:08 Association and I'm here to talk about street

09:42:12 solicitation.

09:42:12 MGA is a voluntary health agency that was founded in




09:42:16 the 1950s.

09:42:17 We cover 43 neuromuscular diseases.

09:42:20 A lot of people don't -- we have been providing

09:42:27 services to the ALS community for over 50 years.

09:42:29 We get no government funding.

09:42:30 We are not a United Way agency.

09:42:33 We operate solely on private and corporate

09:42:36 contributions at our fund-raising events.

09:42:39 The money that we raise locally pays for the services

09:42:42 to the people that have neuromuscular diseases that

09:42:45 live in your community.

09:42:47 We have a clinic at St. Petersburg neurology clinic.

09:42:51 We have a clinic at St. Josephs children's hospital

09:42:53 here in Tampa.

09:42:54 That's where our members are seen on a quarter early

09:42:58 basis, regardless of their income level.

09:43:00 It doesn't cost them any money.

09:43:03 They have access to a team of neurologists.

09:43:05 We also repair durable medical equipment for our

09:43:08 members.

09:43:08 We provide annual flu shots.

09:43:11 We have closets where durable medical equipment can be




09:43:16 available to our members.

09:43:17 We have a weeklong summer camp for our children.

09:43:20 We do support groups.

09:43:21 So the money that we raise locally is so very important

09:43:24 for us to be able to fund these services in the City of

09:43:27 Tampa.

09:43:30 The fill the boot is our signature event.

09:43:32 As a matter of fact, the national association of

09:43:34 firefighters is our number one national sponsor.

09:43:37 Last year, the fill-the-boot campaign across the nation

09:43:42 raised $28 million.

09:43:46 If every community followed the lead of St. Petersburg,

09:43:51 it would cripple our organization.

09:43:53 We would not be able to provide the services that we

09:43:55 do.

09:43:56 I have worked with a lot of different cities and

09:43:58 counties on street solicitation and wove come to

09:44:01 mutually agreeable ways of getting around it where it

09:44:05 doesn't affect nonprofits, doesn't affect newspapers.

09:44:11 So I'm asking you to please regulate street

09:44:14 solicitation, do not ban it.

09:44:16 Most of the time when we ban street solicitation the




09:44:18 only people that follow the rules are the firefighters

09:44:20 and the newspapers.

09:44:21 Thank you for your time.

09:44:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.

09:44:24 Next speaker.

09:44:24 >> Good morning.

09:44:27 My name is Tim Lieber, 14307 north Nebraska Avenue.

09:44:32 And I'm here in regards to the proposed ordinance of

09:44:35 banning street vending.

09:44:37 I'll tell you what, y'all.

09:44:39 I'll make it short because I know you don't have a lot

09:44:41 of time.

09:44:42 I'm 55 years old.

09:44:43 I luck out in getting a job working for the "St. Pete

09:44:45 Times" as a driver.

09:44:47 And the people I take to the corners to sell these

09:44:51 newspapers are sober drug-free. We train them to wear

09:44:56 safety vests.

09:44:56 We train them not to into the streets.

09:44:59 If the lights is green, and the true problem lies in

09:45:01 the homeless people who are bumming money to drink and

09:45:05 use drugs.




09:45:06 That's where your problem is.

09:45:07 The street people who sell newspapers, we are not the

09:45:10 problem.

09:45:11 You're taking honest money that people can earn and you

09:45:13 are putting -- you are taking their only source of

09:45:17 livelihood away from them if you stop them from selling

09:45:21 the newspapers.

09:45:22 Please take this into consideration.

09:45:24 I mean, I lost a job two years ago making $22 an hour.

09:45:31 I depend on this job on the weekends to pay my rent, my

09:45:34 light bill, my truck insurance, and buy food, and I

09:45:38 work other odd jobs just to get by for medical.

09:45:41 It's bad.

09:45:42 I mean, you all sit up here, you make these rules, and

09:45:47 you take everybody and compare them to the bad apple

09:45:50 and you take away from the good people trying to make

09:45:53 an honest living.

09:45:54 Thank you.

09:45:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

09:45:56 Next speaker.

09:45:57 >> Susan long, 920 broad street.

09:46:02 I'm here who on two issues.




09:46:03 First I want to discuss is high water bills.

09:46:05 For the last two years, my water bill has been give or

09:46:08 take five bucks, the same amount.

09:46:10 This year it was -- this month it was ten times higher.

09:46:15 In the last six to eight months -- I have two meters,

09:46:19 for inside water and outside water.

09:46:20 They replaced the outside water meter.

09:46:23 When that bill came in I immediately called a friend of

09:46:26 mine to check all the sprinklers.

09:46:28 I had a plumber come over, check all the plumbing and

09:46:30 everything.

09:46:31 They informed me that I had a small leak, a potty that

09:46:35 was running in the back of the house, and they also

09:46:38 informed me I had one bad sprinkler head which they

09:46:42 replaced.

09:46:42 My interior water bill is exactly the same as it has

09:46:45 been for the last three to five months.

09:46:47 My exterior water bills caused the whole increase.

09:46:51 That's the new water meter.

09:46:53 When they got out there, they also pulled the lid off

09:46:55 the water meter and discovered the water meter was

09:46:58 leaking.




09:46:58 It's leaking on the city side, not my side so it's not

09:47:01 turning the meter.

09:47:02 So I don't know how this happens.

09:47:03 I replaced one sprinkler head.

09:47:07 I have replaced the guts in the back of the toilet.

09:47:12 But I had my water bill on the exterior and I water

09:47:18 every day -- don't water every day, the water bill on

09:47:25 the new meter I find is amazing.

09:47:27 Can I afford to pay it?

09:47:29 Yeah.

09:47:29 Would I like to pay that big a deal?

09:47:31 No.

09:47:32 Mine isn't $2,000 but it's ten times what it normally

09:47:35 is.

09:47:35 The other thing to be speak about is panhandling.

09:47:38 You people were elected to represent us, the citizens

09:47:41 of Tampa, and I believe you told us a week or two weeks

09:47:46 ago that it was your job and not ours to decide what

09:47:49 would happen in the city.

09:47:52 I have been to neighborhood association meetings,

09:47:54 et cetera, and they all are very upset with the

09:47:57 panhandling.




09:47:58 I was driving on Westshore with my windows open, the

09:48:01 radio on, it was a beautiful afternoon, and I had one

09:48:04 of the panhandlers walk up from behind and stick his

09:48:07 hand in my car right in front of my face and say, hey,

09:48:09 you got any money, lady?

09:48:11 Scared the living tar out of me.

09:48:13 I almost hit the car in front of me.

09:48:16 But he was perfectly legal.

09:48:17 He had a reflective vest.

09:48:19 The light was red.

09:48:20 He didn't touch me.

09:48:21 He didn't touch my car.

09:48:23 He just shoved his hand in front of my face.

09:48:25 If I had been a few years older or a little sicker he

09:48:28 could have given me a heart attack and killed me.

09:48:31 But a little slower on the response I could have run

09:48:33 into the car in front of me.

09:48:34 I think we need a ban.

09:48:36 Thank you.

09:48:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

09:48:39 Next speaker.

09:48:40 >> Hi.




09:48:41 My name is Judy sellers.

09:48:44 I live at 3217 West Swann Avenue in Tampa.

09:48:47 My complaints on the water bill is for my mother-in-law

09:48:51 who has not lived in the house for quite some time.

09:48:54 No one lives there.

09:48:56 She lives at 3216 west harbor view which is behind me.

09:49:01 Their average water bill was 1.60, 1.40 for six months.

09:49:08 Minimum.

09:49:09 All of a sudden, she went from using hardly nothing to

09:49:15 62088 gallons of water.

09:49:21 No one lived in the house.

09:49:22 So her bill was -- average bill $30.92 went up to

09:49:29 343.32.

09:49:32 Something is not right.

09:49:35 We have checked for leaks.

09:49:37 We find nothing.

09:49:38 In fact, the water meter, when my husband turns the

09:49:42 hose on goes, and as soon as he turns it off it stops.

09:49:44 So we don't know what the problem is, but with no one

09:49:50 living there, something is not right.

09:49:51 We go over.

09:49:53 All we do is clean, now, make sure everything is okay.




09:49:58 There's not any toilets running.

09:49:59 No water.

09:50:00 We don't even use the city's water for sprinkling.

09:50:03 She has a pump that has been broken for two years.

09:50:08 So something is not right.

09:50:10 I would like for you to check it.

09:50:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.

09:50:13 Next speaker.

09:50:14 >> My name is Sherri.

09:50:26 I'm here to speak to you today about the water bills.

09:50:29 I have examples of water bills that I would like to

09:50:31 hand to you.

09:50:31 May I give those to you?

09:50:33 >> Yes.

09:50:33 >> The water bill that I am handing to you right now

09:50:43 represents two months.

09:50:44 It's for Christopher Carusso, rents an empty condo.

09:50:51 You will see in the months of September to October he

09:50:54 was charged for 51,300 gallons of water at a rate of

09:50:59 $403.72.

09:51:01 That condo was empty at the time.

09:51:04 The next water bill that you look at, it shows the next




09:51:07 month zero consumption.

09:51:10 There are seven days where water should have been used

09:51:12 where he would have had to go in and correct this

09:51:14 problem.

09:51:17 How can you explain to be me that a water meter shows

09:51:19 this type of consumption, no one living there, and the

09:51:23 problem is automatically corrected? The next question

09:51:25 to you is he, the next point to you is, my parents live

09:51:29 at 3906 Fontainebleau drive during the month of

09:51:33 November and December, or the October-November billing

09:51:37 cycle.

09:51:37 They were not in residence.

09:51:40 Their water bill increased from he two cubic feet,

09:51:49 September-October, to 87 cubic feet, however you want

09:51:55 to say that, and the November-December billing cycle.

09:51:58 The problem with this is I had the water department

09:52:00 came out, they looked at it and they said, oh, well,

09:52:03 your sprinkler system is leaking.

09:52:05 The amount of water that flows through the sprinkler

09:52:07 system could not generate this amount of usage.

09:52:10 I did the calculations. I was very good about giving

09:52:16 your City of Tampa water department said that a




09:52:18 sprinkler system uses approximately 15 gallons a minute

09:52:22 for a sprinkler system.

09:52:24 The 15 gallons a minute is 20 ab minute which is what

09:52:29 is supposed to flow through the meter.

09:52:32 The maximum they could have used, 30 minutes on each

09:52:34 zone would have been 37 cubic feet with that leak.

09:52:37 Not possible.

09:52:39 Also look at public record, that woman would have had

09:52:48 to flush her toilet 26 times an hour 24 hours a day for

09:52:50 60 days.

09:52:52 You also need to address the tier rate system which is

09:52:55 discriminatory against large families.

09:52:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

09:52:59 Next speaker.

09:53:02 Ma'am, your time is up.

09:53:03 Thank you.

09:53:03 >> Good morning.

09:53:07 My name is Sonya long.

09:53:09 I am at 709 north Gilchrist street, Tampa, Florida.

09:53:13 I'm coming here about the panhandling issue.

09:53:16 When we came back here before the council, I proposed

09:53:19 to the council to ask them, I challenged them to come




09:53:22 out to a supervisor.

09:53:26 I had fox news come out and follow me.

09:53:29 They did a story on me and they saw there were no

09:53:31 issues on it.

09:53:32 I have four people that are on my team.

09:53:36 Every Sunday.

09:53:37 We are there.

09:53:38 I have been with "St. Pete Times" for two and a half

09:53:42 years as a supervisor there.

09:53:44 We have never had an incident.

09:53:53 When the police come by I always tray to be a citizen

09:53:55 and help but I'm a taxpayer, too.

09:53:57 As everyone knows I'm a college graduate.

09:53:59 And I just want to know if you all come and allow this

09:54:02 ordinance to pass today, I have a daughter that will be

09:54:06 14 next Tuesday.

09:54:13 What am I to tell her?

09:54:15 She's already ashamed that I'm out there on Sunday, but

09:54:20 she's been able to deal it with.

09:54:21 I have thank God you didn't ban us then because I was

09:54:28 able to provide Christmas presents.

09:54:30 But I want you to tell me who is going to pay my TECO




09:54:33 bill?

09:54:34 Who is going to take care of my water bill next week?

09:54:37 You know?

09:54:38 It's easy for people to make decisions because of

09:54:41 elections.

09:54:42 It's about doing the right thing right now.

09:54:45 While you are in office, do the right thing.

09:54:46 Don't make a decision on pressures of what other people

09:54:49 said but when you know you are doing the right thing

09:54:52 for people to be able to survive, to make it.

09:54:54 You all have it an income.

09:54:56 Just put yourself in my shoes for one minute.

09:55:00 No one is better than anybody.

09:55:02 I have just as much college education, parents that are

09:55:07 teachers.

09:55:07 I come from an educated background. But it's the

09:55:11 economy, it is what it is right now.

09:55:13 The homeless people are there.

09:55:15 Thank God I am not on the streets yet.

09:55:20 Yet.

09:55:20 But I beg you all to do the right thing and not kick us

09:55:25 off the street.




09:55:26 As someone said they don't want to see a drunk person.

09:55:29 There are some bad apples but don't put us in that

09:55:32 whole bunch.

09:55:34 Don't put us in that bunch.

09:55:35 And then if you take us off the streets, next week I'll

09:55:39 be right here saying help me pay my bills.

09:55:41 (Bell sounds).

09:55:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.

09:55:50 Please, if you all hold the applause down, please.

09:55:53 This is not an entertainment session.

09:55:58 >> So nervous.

09:56:00 My name is Sherry Valiente, and I'm here about the

09:56:05 water bill.

09:56:06 I live at 1009 west friendly.

09:56:09 I have lived in the house almost two years.

09:56:11 I'm very much into the saving water.

09:56:14 I have a rain barrel.

09:56:16 I don't turn my dishwasher on until it's packed.

09:56:21 I'm very water conscious.

09:56:22 I got a water bill, and my water bill is $42 a month.

09:56:26 I got a water bill that almost sent me to emergency,

09:56:29 okay?




09:56:29 It was $425.

09:56:31 I am very upset.

09:56:33 I called channel eight on your side.

09:56:36 My husband doesn't even live at my house right now.

09:56:39 He wrote the letter recently.

09:56:41 I heard -- I called channel 8 on your side.

09:56:45 The lady that took my call said all these people are

09:56:47 calling.

09:56:48 I have called the water department all the time.

09:56:49 I keep running out to the street reading the meter.

09:56:52 She told me, have a relationship with your meter.

09:56:54 She says, read it every time before you do laundry and

09:56:59 read it every time before you take a shower, and I'm

09:57:01 like, okay, whatever. So I'm always calling the water

09:57:05 department.

09:57:06 And then they leave me on hold for 45 minutes.

09:57:09 It's like, what are we supposed to do?

09:57:12 I called them this morning.

09:57:14 I'm sorry, I didn't even brush my hair.

09:57:16 I just ran down here.

09:57:18 What are people supposed to do?

09:57:19 I called them this morning.




09:57:21 I said, now, I paid $125.

09:57:24 How am I supposed to afford this?

09:57:26 I don't even have a job.

09:57:27 Okay.

09:57:27 I said -- she says, well, you know, same old story,

09:57:31 same old lady again.

09:57:33 Read your meter, go out there and have a relationship

09:57:35 like I do all the time.

09:57:37 I'm sorry.

09:57:38 Something is wrong.

09:57:39 I find it very interesting that all these people all of

09:57:41 a sudden have all these hey water bills.

09:57:46 Something is not right.

09:57:46 And something needs to be done.

09:57:48 And I am mad!

09:57:49 I am I very mad.

09:57:51 What do I have to do, go outside and take a shower in

09:57:55 my rain barrel, now?

09:57:55 It just doesn't make sense.

09:57:58 I just don't understand.

09:57:59 Why can't I get any help?

09:58:00 And I have done -- I have had my irrigation system




09:58:03 checked.

09:58:04 I don't even water my yard.

09:58:07 I have done the thing with the toilet just like that

09:58:09 gentleman back there says.

09:58:12 I'm always -- I don't brush my teeth with the water

09:58:16 running.

09:58:16 I don't understand.

09:58:18 I don't know what to do.

09:58:19 I don't get any help.

09:58:21 I asked the water department to come out.

09:58:22 They told me pretty much -- and I told them today, I

09:58:27 said, now what?

09:58:28 I said we I can't pay that.

09:58:36 You are ready to shut me off.

09:58:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, ma'am.

09:58:39 >> My name is Dave Driscoll.

09:58:41 I'm an independent contractor for the St. Pete tames.

09:58:44 I'm here to talk about the ordinance that is being

09:58:46 written to try to stop newspaper sales on the street.

09:58:50 The way I see the ordinance being written is they keep

09:58:56 telling us that they don't have any data.

09:58:59 They keep asking for data for accidents, safety, and




09:59:04 they keep saying it's a public safety issue us being on

09:59:07 the street selling newspapers.

09:59:09 But nobody could find any data that we have had

09:59:11 accidents on the streets.

09:59:12 I have been doing it for five and a half years.

09:59:15 We haven't had any accidents.

09:59:17 All I'm asking -- and they say that we are a ticking

09:59:21 time bomb waiting to go off.

09:59:23 Well, life is a ticking time bomb.

09:59:26 There's bike accidents in Hillsborough County all the

09:59:28 time.

09:59:28 Are we banning bicycle riding?

09:59:31 There's cell phones in automobiles which is a danger to

09:59:35 the public safety.

09:59:36 Are we banning cell phones?

09:59:38 No.

09:59:39 We are trying to take employment away from people who

09:59:42 are down on their luck, trying to make an honest

09:59:45 living.

09:59:46 Okay.

09:59:46 The new ordinance, as I read it and see it, as written

09:59:52 by Mr. Fletcher, has allowed the City Councilors able




09:59:57 to stand on the street and run for election coming up

10:00:01 in May.

10:00:02 If you look at the way the ordinance is trying to be

10:00:04 written, obviously it benefits the council but not the

10:00:12 city newspaper people.

10:00:13 Pushing them off the street isn't good for the city.

10:00:15 We have proposed many alternatives to do a five-day

10:00:18 ban.

10:00:20 (Bell sounds).

10:00:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

10:00:22 Next speaker.

10:00:22 >> Jim Lake, 4218 west San Pedro, here today as a

10:00:29 lawyer for the "The Tampa Tribune," and with me is Gary

10:00:32 steel, the single copy manager.

10:00:34 Earlier this month I appeared before council and

10:00:37 suggested that this issue of street solicitation could

10:00:40 be addressed through tightened safety regulations, and

10:00:44 that's still our view.

10:00:45 But certainly I think my appearance here in the past

10:00:49 has indicated we are willing to work with council on

10:00:51 these issues, and I think some safety concerns could

10:00:56 address, for example, or some safety additions to the




10:00:59 ordinance could address Mr. Stokes' comments last week

10:01:01 about prohibiting approaching a vehicle unless the

10:01:04 driver summons a solicitor, or use of signs.

10:01:09 I think those are some options.

10:01:10 But if council's preference is to move forward with a

10:01:13 ban as has been proposed today, I think it could be

10:01:17 tweaked very slightly in a way that we could support,

10:01:19 and that's simply consistent with council's comments in

10:01:22 the past about the difference created by days of the

10:01:27 week and traffic levels.

10:01:29 Safety concerns vary depending on the days of the week.

10:01:33 You could pass this ordinance today with just a slight

10:01:36 change to subparagraph B, say simply it shall be

10:01:40 unlawful to engage on street vending on weekdays, or

10:01:46 between sunset and sunrise.

10:01:49 And if you did that, the result would be that street

10:01:52 solicitation would be allowed only during daylight

10:01:55 hours on Saturday and Sunday when traffic counts are

10:01:57 lower.

10:01:58 (Bell sounds)

10:01:59 Would be allowed 24 hours a week.

10:02:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.




10:02:02 >> Thank you very much.

10:02:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is Mr. Fletcher hear?

10:02:06 Let me just say to all of those who are here relative

10:02:09 to the water bill, first of all, on behalf of council,

10:02:12 we would like to apologize for the problem that you

10:02:21 experiencing.

10:02:23 I do concur -- I don't understand how over two or three

10:02:28 hundred people can have the same problem at the same

10:02:30 time.

10:02:33 Unfortunately under the charter, Mr. Fletcher, I want

10:02:36 him to come.

10:02:37 We do not have any direct jurisdiction over the

10:02:39 administration, the mayor's office.

10:02:41 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: That's correct.

10:02:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So I want you to speak to that just

10:02:46 for a minute so people understand where we are.

10:02:48 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: City attorney.

10:02:51 With the strong mayor form of government, the mayor

10:02:56 executive directs and manages the branch agencies

10:02:59 including public works and water departments, and you

10:03:01 can request information and you have done that.

10:03:04 We'll have a staff report this afternoon -- or later




10:03:07 this morning, hopefully, and that's the appropriate

10:03:10 role of council here.

10:03:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me follow up with another question.

10:03:14 Are there any other options that council has?

10:03:17 Is there a way that we can ask the administration, I

10:03:22 guess, ask administration to discontinue turning off

10:03:30 the water until this has been investigated, resolved?

10:03:35 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Could you make that request.

10:03:37 Would be outside your direct control but that would

10:03:39 certainly be an appropriate request.

10:03:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: But it's still up to the

10:03:42 administration to -- okay.

10:03:45 Council, I think we need to make such a motion.

10:03:47 I know we have a report coming later on, but I think we

10:03:50 would be in order if we make that request.

10:03:52 >>GWEN MILLER: And to add to your request, Reverend

10:03:56 Scott, if you request they delay it until something is

10:03:59 happening, what about if they still have to pay this

10:04:02 bill.

10:04:02 Will they be given an installment plan?

10:04:05 Some people can't afford to pay the whole balance.

10:04:07 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I would suggest that you direct




10:04:10 that question to Mr. Daignault when he gets here for

10:04:13 the staff report.

10:04:14 I believe we have a staff process for accommodating

10:04:16 these high bills.

10:04:20 While you heard a lot about them today, we do get these

10:04:22 from time to time.

10:04:23 It's not an out of the ordinary occurrence to

10:04:28 investigate high bills and resolve payment of those

10:04:29 bills.

10:04:31 Turning off the water is a last resort, and I would

10:04:34 think that we would be able to work through that.

10:04:36 But I would defer to Mr. Daignault as to how they set

10:04:39 up the payment programs or other types of methods for

10:04:42 getting that set up.

10:04:43 >>MARY MULHERN: Since we have so many people here who

10:04:49 had this, we are having a report from the water

10:04:54 department this afternoon.

10:04:55 So we are going --

10:04:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Shortly.

10:04:59 >>MARY MULHERN: Hopefully this morning and we are

10:05:01 going to ask all these questions.

10:05:03 But my question for you, Mr. Fletcher, City Council




10:05:05 does set the fees, right?

10:05:08 >> Yes, City Council does set the rates.

10:05:10 And that is within your purview.

10:05:12 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to suggest that if we

10:05:16 can't address this problem and take responsibility for

10:05:19 the fact that there have been these clusters, if you

10:05:23 are in any kind of business or research, or scientific

10:05:27 approach to anything, it wouldn't be these huge

10:05:30 clusters that are happening, if there weren't some kind

10:05:34 of problem with the monitoring or the reporting.

10:05:38 And we cannot direct, we can ask.

10:05:44 And ware going to, I'm sure, ask the water department

10:05:47 and public works to find out what the problem is, and

10:05:52 perhaps, you know, I don't think this should be

10:05:55 happening at the expense of all these people having to

10:05:58 hire plumbers and engineers to come out and see.

10:06:01 If our water department can't figure out what the

10:06:04 problem is, then maybe we need to get an independent --

10:06:09 someone to get out there and fine out what the problem

10:06:13 is.

10:06:14 And I think if we can't get -- treat our customers --

10:06:21 and if I got a cell phone bill that told me I was on my




10:06:24 cell phone for all these minutes, and I know I wasn't,

10:06:26 I would be able to work with my cell phone company and

10:06:29 figure out what was wrong.

10:06:30 So the city needs to work with our customers and figure

10:06:33 out what the problem is.

10:06:34 And maybe City Council will have to -- if we can't get

10:06:39 them to do that responsibly, then maybe we'll just have

10:06:43 to reduce the rates enough that your bill is ten times

10:06:47 as much as it was goes down to what it should

10:06:50 reasonably be.

10:06:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Can't do that either.

10:06:53 >> Mr. Chairman, two points.

10:06:57 One is I think Mr. Daignault when he presents this

10:06:59 afternoon or later this morning will get into whether

10:07:03 in fact there are clusters, what they have

10:07:06 investigated, what they found, so you should get some

10:07:09 information in that regard.

10:07:10 In terms of changing rates, there is a rate-making

10:07:13 process that you all would have to go through to change

10:07:15 those rates.

10:07:15 And we can't just automatically do that.

10:07:19 But that would be within council's purview to approve




10:07:21 new rates based on specific data related to cost and

10:07:25 other information.

10:07:25 >>MARY MULHERN: So that's a process we could start if

10:07:28 we can't solve this, what seems to be to obviously be

10:07:32 some kind of mechanical --

10:07:39 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: So there is a process you go

10:07:41 through.

10:07:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Part of the problem is not just going

10:07:43 out and changing rate because you do have bond

10:07:45 covenants that you have to be concerned about, too.

10:07:47 And it may put the city in default.

10:07:52 There are a lot of issues that come into play when you

10:07:54 start --

10:07:55 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, I'm just suggesting we are not

10:07:57 the ones that should be fixing this, but if we have to,

10:07:59 we have to use whatever means we have as council to try

10:08:02 to get the problem solved.

10:08:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda and councilman

10:08:07 Caetano.

10:08:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to echo what you just said.

10:08:10 It sound real simple just to lower the rates.

10:08:14 What happens then?




10:08:17 What happens to the breakage of the pipes underground?

10:08:21 How do we repair them?

10:08:22 What happens to the 40 miles a year that we are doing

10:08:24 to bring the system updated that's 80, 100 years old?

10:08:28 What happens then?

10:08:30 What happens to the agreement with SWFWMD to have

10:08:32 certain tiers? What happens then?

10:08:35 Right now, the City of Tampa has one of the lowest

10:08:40 rates if not the lowest rates in the whole west coast

10:08:43 of Florida.

10:08:44 All of them.

10:08:45 >> That's not true.

10:08:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Oh, it's not true?

10:08:49 Good.

10:08:50 Okay.

10:08:50 West coast of Florida.

10:08:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT:

10:08:55 [Sounding gavel]

10:08:55 Please, let's not have debate from the floor, from the

10:08:59 audience.

10:08:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I would like to see administration

10:09:01 come and make the presentation on what's happening




10:09:03 before we decide anything.

10:09:05 I agree that the water bills are high.

10:09:09 I can also say that I'm looking at one bill, and you

10:09:12 have a high water bill, but on the other side you have

10:09:15 got a real high sewer bill.

10:09:19 That's not in the City of Tampa.

10:09:20 So we don't control the sewer.

10:09:22 So there's something wrong somewhere.

10:09:25 And a correlation between the two.

10:09:27 I tried to look at things realistically, and I agree

10:09:30 that there's something wrong.

10:09:31 Where?

10:09:31 I can tell you that I have also called that same number

10:09:34 that you have in the water department.

10:09:36 I can tell you I was on there for 48 minutes.

10:09:39 And I can tell you that I did make calls in, and they

10:09:43 had a change months back from the finance department

10:09:47 and to the water department of that whole department.

10:09:50 And I want to listen to what they have to say because I

10:09:52 believe there was also a reduction of staff.

10:09:55 I'm not sure of that, but I believe that's one of the

10:09:58 problems.




10:09:59 I don't like meter reading twice, once every two

10:10:04 months.

10:10:05 My garbage is picked up every week.

10:10:07 And I like to have an explanation how much the cost

10:10:10 would be to the city to meter once a month.

10:10:13 Why do I say that?

10:10:15 Let's say that they are right and they have a leak.

10:10:18 Well, if you have a leak on the second day, you have

10:10:20 got to wait 58 more days for somebody to give you the

10:10:23 high water bill.

10:10:24 Then you lost 58 days of water.

10:10:26 And the other term, lose 28 days based on a 30-day

10:10:32 month.

10:10:32 So what I am saying is, I don't know what the answer is

10:10:35 until we get all of the information, and I would like

10:10:37 to see that.

10:10:38 I would ask you all to stay here so we can listen to

10:10:41 both side of this issue to you find out where we are

10:10:43 at.

10:10:43 That's all I am asking to be realistic, to find out

10:10:45 where we are at.

10:10:46 Is there a problem?




10:10:47 Somewhere along the line something is a problem.

10:10:49 I don't know if it's the way we read the meter.

10:10:53 I think it's done by a digital machine that you look at

10:10:55 it.

10:10:56 It doesn't scan it.

10:10:57 You put it in yourself.

10:10:59 There are no innovations in meter reading but that

10:11:02 costs about $30 million.

10:11:04 I don't know if they are willing to go into that, which

10:11:07 means that your meter -- and by the way, to my

10:11:09 expectation no meter runs fast.

10:11:12 It runs slow.

10:11:13 That's why they change them F.not they wouldn't change

10:11:15 them.

10:11:15 If they were running fast, they wouldn't change them.

10:11:17 They run slow.

10:11:18 That's why they change or try to change them every ten

10:11:21 years.

10:11:22 However, during those changes, humans make mistakes.

10:11:28 Even in the shuttle system they make mistakes.

10:11:32 So all it takes is one digital number wrong, and your

10:11:35 meter comes back with a high water bill.




10:11:38 So let's hear what they say.

10:11:40 Let's wait and see.

10:11:41 And then we can all try to work this thing out together

10:11:44 in a reasonable manner.

10:11:46 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

10:11:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano.

10:11:49 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: You mentioned that we have bond

10:11:54 to pay.

10:11:55 Every one of these homeowners have a bond, that's a

10:11:58 mortgage on their house.

10:11:59 When they get a $2,000 water bill, I know one who lives

10:12:03 by himself, got a $1400 bill.

10:12:06 His wastewater charge was $600.

10:12:10 He's out all day, and he's never at home.

10:12:14 He may have a house cleaner that comes in once a week.

10:12:16 I really don't know.

10:12:17 But the way we passed that ordinance back in October,

10:12:22 it anticipates a monthly measurement of water.

10:12:25 Not every two months.

10:12:27 And that's what we are doing.

10:12:29 We have 145,000 meters to read.

10:12:35 Each meter reads about 11,000 meet areas month.




10:12:38 I don't know how many hours a day they work.

10:12:40 But 11,000 comes out to about 145,000 meters.

10:12:47 I don't know how fast they work or how many meters.

10:12:49 Yesterday there was a gentle from TECO reading the

10:12:52 meters on my street, and ask him how many meters does

10:12:58 he read a day, and he took off before I could get to

10:13:01 him.

10:13:01 Mr. Fletcher, I want to ask you a question.

10:13:09 Can we suspend -- do we have a right to suspend the

10:13:13 increase that we took last October when we put the tier

10:13:17 system into effect?

10:13:22 I don't mean abolish it.

10:13:23 Suspend it until this fiasco is taken care of?

10:13:26 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: We would have to go through a

10:13:29 process, we would have to look at the impact on the

10:13:31 bond covenants and coverage of the debt on the system,

10:13:34 and come back to you on that.

10:13:38 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: How long would that take?

10:13:40 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I would have to get with the

10:13:42 finance department and find out.

10:13:43 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Who changes the meters for the

10:13:47 city?




10:13:48 I had a resident call me yesterday that someone was at

10:13:54 his house in the morning and there was no city truck, a

10:13:56 gentleman dressed in work clothes, he had no city

10:13:59 uniform, and he was there, he said he's got to change

10:14:01 your meter.

10:14:02 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I would suggest you hold that

10:14:04 question for Mr. Daignault.

10:14:06 I don't know operational about changing meters.

10:14:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Stokes and Councilwoman

10:14:14 Capin.

10:14:15 >>CURTIS STOKES: It's obvious that this is a huge issue

10:14:18 for the entire city.

10:14:22 He special reply the Tampa Palms area and Dana Shores

10:14:25 an other parts of the city.

10:14:27 Going back to your question a few minutes ago, I would

10:14:29 like to put a motion on the floor that we suspend

10:14:31 collections of water bills at least until this issue is

10:14:36 fully investigated.

10:14:43 Suspend the collection of all water bills.

10:14:45 If it doesn't --

10:14:50 >> Mr. Chairman, let me be a little more specific on

10:14:52 the process.




10:14:53 Any change to rates in the implementation of rates has

10:14:55 to go through statutory notice process.

10:14:58 We have to send out by state law notice to every rate

10:15:02 payer.

10:15:03 It takes about six weeks to get that done.

10:15:07 We can't just decide immediately we want to change how

10:15:10 we are doing our utility finance.

10:15:14 >>CURTIS STOKES: Chip, throws obviously an issue when

10:15:16 you have -- I am looking at a bill here.

10:15:20 There's no water usage for one month.

10:15:22 I'm sorry, 10 CCF one month and the next it goes up to

10:15:27 166 cubic feet of water used, $640 a month water bill.

10:15:34 And there's obviously an issue.

10:15:37 Like Mrs. Mulhern said you can't always put the onus on

10:15:41 the client to take care of the issue.

10:15:43 The city has to accept some of this responsibility,

10:15:45 that obviously we are not reading the meters correctly,

10:15:49 or the system is faulty.

10:15:50 The city has to take some responsibility.

10:15:52 And if it's going to cause us to trip some of the

10:15:59 covenants in our bond, that's the cost of doing

10:16:01 business.




10:16:01 But we can't always put that burden on the clients to

10:16:06 take care of the issue.

10:16:08 We have some accept some responsibility.

10:16:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me interrupt.

10:16:11 Wait a minute, this is really getting out of hand hear.

10:16:13 Listen, listen.

10:16:15 We have a problem.

10:16:17 We all agree to that.

10:16:19 We have a problem.

10:16:21 And the way to get to the bottom, we have to have staff

10:16:24 here, we have to address all the questions, get answers

10:16:27 to questions.

10:16:27 I think the best way again is talk with administration

10:16:32 because we don't have power or authority under the

10:16:37 charter to do a whole lot, to make sure that these

10:16:38 people, water is not turned off and not disconnected.

10:16:40 That's one.

10:16:41 Two is find out from administration, can they do

10:16:45 something in terms of prorating?

10:16:47 And clearly even if you were to reduce the rate, that's

10:16:50 still not going to resolve the issue base there's a

10:16:52 problem somewhere.




10:16:53 We don't know if it's from the meter reader, we don't

10:16:56 know if it's from new meters being placed there.

10:16:59 We don't know.

10:16:59 So again -- and please understand, the public has to

10:17:02 understand this.

10:17:03 As an elected official, you elected me to protect the

10:17:06 city and to make sure that we don't fall into default,

10:17:09 because if you do, somebody will have to pay.

10:17:13 End up paying and we fall in default.

10:17:16 You the citizens.

10:17:17 And you don't want that.

10:17:18 So the simpler way in my opinion is to get the

10:17:20 administration in here, let's hear from them, and then

10:17:23 we'll address all the concerns and try to make a

10:17:25 decision from that standpoint.

10:17:27 I will say to all the people today, you have a problem,

10:17:30 we agree to that.

10:17:31 But I believe that we can resolve this problem.

10:17:34 I believe we can settle this issue.

10:17:37 If you will allow us the opportunity to work with

10:17:38 administration we'll get to the bottom of this.

10:17:40 And in the meantime -- and have the administration




10:17:42 request not to discontinue anybody's water or turn it

10:17:45 off, suspend it, those kinds of things.

10:17:48 I think that's critical.

10:17:50 >>CURTIS STOKES: Can he would make in the form of a

10:17:52 motion --

10:17:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: They are going to be here in a few

10:17:55 minutes.

10:17:55 They should be here because it's a 10:00 report.

10:17:58 But we need to move.

10:18:02 Ms. Capin, I'm sorry.

10:18:07 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.

10:18:09 I would like to echo what Chairman Scott said.

10:18:15 And unfortunately I couldn't speak before.

10:18:18 So what we have here, and what we are finding out, is a

10:18:22 reaction to what was said this morning without hearing

10:18:27 before us what the administration and what the findings

10:18:31 are.

10:18:31 When we have that information, we can then better serve

10:18:36 you and make sure that everyone in the city is served

10:18:40 properly rather than a knee jerk reaction to one side.

10:18:49 And I understand there is obviously a problem.

10:18:52 But it's not going to be solved on either the water or




10:18:58 the panhandling without hearing out administration and

10:19:02 really looking into this situation.

10:19:04 Thank you.

10:19:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We have a motion on the floor.

10:19:07 If you withdraw your motion at this time, till we hear

10:19:12 from administration, I would appreciate that.

10:19:14 >>CURTIS STOKES: I withdraw the motion.

10:19:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Administration should be here to

10:19:17 address.

10:19:18 Are they here yet on this 10:00?

10:19:19 What I would like to do is take the two ordinances and

10:19:23 consent and by then they should be here and we'll take

10:19:25 up the items 63 which is the water issue.

10:19:30 Okay?

10:19:44 The substitute ordinance.

10:19:45 And administration should be coming inside.

10:19:47 Is there a substitute ordinance for number one?

10:19:56 He.

10:19:57 >>CURTIS STOKES: A substitute ordinance authorizing

10:19:58 installation maintenance of encroachments existing and

10:20:03 proposed canopies by Florida health sciences center

10:20:06 over a portion right-of-way known as south Magnolia




10:20:10 Avenue as more particularly described herein subject to

10:20:12 certain terms, covenants, conditions and agreements as

10:20:16 more particularly described herein providing an

10:20:18 effective date.

10:20:18 >> Second.

10:20:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

10:20:21 All in favor?

10:20:22 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.

10:20:24 Second reading of the ordinance will be held February

10:20:26 3rd at 9:30 a.m.

10:20:29 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance amending ordinance

10:20:32 number 2010-159 passed and ordained by the City Council

10:20:37 of the City of Tampa on October 21, 2010, which

10:20:40 approved a special use permit 4(COP-X) for 208 South

10:20:45 Howard Avenue -- I'm sorry, I am going to ask Mr.

10:20:54 Miranda to read this ordinance.

10:20:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I was going to ask.

10:20:57 >>MARY MULHERN: I didn't realize.

10:21:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Item number 2 is to correct a

10:21:07 scrivener's error to substitute.

10:21:10 >>MARY MULHERN: Oh, sorry.

10:21:12 I'll continue.




10:21:13 Which approved a special use permit 4(COP-X) for 208

10:21:17 South Howard Avenue correcting a scrivener's error by

10:21:20 substituting a revised exhibit A for the exhibit A that

10:21:23 was supplied in error providing for severability,

10:21:26 providing an effective date.

10:21:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded by councilman

10:21:30 Caetano. All in favor?

10:21:32 Opposes?

10:21:33 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.

10:21:35 Second reading of the ordinance will be held February

10:21:37 3rd at 930 a.m.

10:21:39 >> councilwoman Miller, public safety.

10:21:43 Consent items.

10:21:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Move 3 through 10.

10:21:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

10:21:49 All in favor?

10:21:50 Opposes?

10:21:51 Okay.

10:21:54 Councilman Stokes, parks and recreation.

10:21:56 >>CURTIS STOKES: Move 11 through 19, please.

10:21:58 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.

10:22:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying Aye.




10:22:02 Opposes?

10:22:03 Public works, councilman Miranda.

10:22:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move items 20 through 22.

10:22:07 >> Second.

10:22:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?

10:22:16 Finance Committee.

10:22:17 Councilman Mulhern.

10:22:18 >>MARY MULHERN: Move 23 through 30.

10:22:22 >> Second.

10:22:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?

10:22:25 Opposes?

10:22:26 Building and zoning.

10:22:26 Councilman Caetano.

10:22:27 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I move items 31 through 41.

10:22:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Stokes.

10:22:33 All in favor?

10:22:34 Opposes?

10:22:36 Transportation, Councilwoman Capin.

10:22:38 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I move items 42 through 49.

10:22:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

10:22:47 All in favor?

10:22:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to set public hearings.




10:22:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Pulling them 53 and 58, right?

10:22:58 Is there a second?

10:23:01 Seconded by councilman Caetano.

10:23:04 All in favor?

10:23:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, also at this time,

10:23:07 would council please move the items that Mr. Territo

10:23:10 added to new business, the resolution setting the

10:23:12 public hearing regarding the bond issues?

10:23:17 >>GWEN MILLER: So moved.

10:23:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do you need to say anything, Mr.

10:23:20 Territo, on that?

10:23:23 >>SAL TERRITO: No.

10:23:23 It's jut just calling for a public hearing and we'll

10:23:26 explain it at the time.

10:23:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

10:23:28 All in favor?

10:23:29 Opposes?

10:23:30 Do we have before we take up the 9:30 items, second

10:23:38 reading, is anyone from the water department here?

10:23:51 >>BRAD BAIRD: Tampa water department director.

10:23:52 Here to address item 63.

10:23:56 And we have a report going around right now.




10:24:03 I'll wait a minute until that's handed out.

10:24:11 We have extra copies for people in the audience as

10:24:14 well.

10:24:21 If they would raise their hand they can get a copy of

10:24:24 that report

10:24:28 Everybody have one?

10:24:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.

10:24:47 >>BRAD BAIRD: First I want to say that I can't imagine,

10:24:54 you know, going to my mailbox, opening up an envelope

10:25:00 from the city, seeing a water bill several hundred

10:25:03 dollars, a thousand dollars.

10:25:05 It's got to be frightening.

10:25:09 This report is intended to shed some light on why we

10:25:13 have had high water bills.

10:25:17 Why we have high water bills and ways that we can help

10:25:21 the customer.

10:25:23 Our goal is not to have high water bills.

10:25:27 We want appropriate, fair bills for the services that

10:25:31 are provided.

10:25:37 Adjustments can be made and will be made associated

10:25:41 with leaks that are discovered.

10:25:45 We certainly don't want to turn people off -- turn




10:25:49 their water off.

10:25:52 And we have a process that we work through, and payment

10:25:55 plans that we can work with the customer to make sure

10:25:58 that that doesn't happen.

10:26:01 We care about our customers.

10:26:05 With that, I would like to go into the report that we

10:26:13 have put together associated and focused on the three

10:26:19 neighborhoods that have been submitted the bills.

10:26:21 And that's what you have before you.

10:26:28 And the first point is that I want to make is that we

10:26:33 have not changed our processes.

10:26:35 We haven't changed our billing process.

10:26:38 We haven't changed the meter reading process.

10:26:41 We haven't changed the type of meters we use city-wide.

10:26:46 We haven't even changed most of the people that are

10:26:50 doing all this work in the billing office and in the

10:26:53 meter reading.

10:26:55 Team.

10:26:59 Our software has not changed.

10:27:01 None of that changes on how it interfaces with the

10:27:04 meter reading equipment and how all that is downloaded.

10:27:10 None of that has changed.




10:27:16 I want to talk a little about the meter reading

10:27:19 process, if I may, because that seems to be an issue

10:27:25 that a lot of folks point to.

10:27:27 You know, it must be inaccurate meters, or there must

10:27:30 be errors in the meter reading process.

10:27:34 Now, we are not perfect.

10:27:36 But in the vast majority, 99.99% of the time, those

10:27:42 meters are accurate.

10:27:46 They are tested and they are accurate.

10:27:49 When a meter reader goes out and reads a meter, he has

10:27:55 a hand-held devoice or she has a hand-held device, and

10:27:59 they punch the number in the device that they see, and

10:28:04 they read off the meter.

10:28:09 If the data that's in that device for all the customers

10:28:13 that that meter reader is going to read that day.

10:28:18 Punch the meter in the device.

10:28:19 I'm sorry, punch the numbers in the device.

10:28:27 And there's a formula but if it end up being more than

10:28:31 four times the usage the device will beach and say,

10:28:34 this reads out of line.

10:28:39 Read it again.

10:28:40 So that meter reader will read it again and make sure




10:28:45 those numbers are right.

10:28:46 Punch them in.

10:28:48 And if it beeps again, the meter reader will look,

10:28:54 match the numbers.

10:28:55 If they match, they will punch again as the read.

10:29:01 Now, when that information gets back to the office and

10:29:04 downloaded, it comes into a report that is called an

10:29:11 exception report, and we have about 100 exceptions a

10:29:13 day.

10:29:14 And at that point we go through a desk audit.

10:29:18 We look at every one in our billing section and say --

10:29:23 and look at the previous history.

10:29:26 Have they had spikes in the back?

10:29:29 Are there notes in the system such as they filled the

10:29:31 pools at some time, or they asked for a leak adjustment

10:29:35 before?

10:29:37 Or other things that have come up, you know, those

10:29:39 notes are in the system.

10:29:41 If there is nothing that would indicate why they have a

10:29:44 high bill, we send the meter reader out to read the

10:29:48 meter a third time.

10:29:53 And in most cases it's a different meter reader.




10:29:56 That goes out, does the same thing again, punches the

10:30:00 number in, maybe we made a mistake, maybe we transposed

10:30:05 the number twice.

10:30:07 If that reading matches up for that third time, and the

10:30:15 number beeps, it will beep again because it's not in

10:30:17 accordance with their history, then they take that

10:30:21 information and go back, and at that point we proceed

10:30:26 with sending the bill.

10:30:30 And at that point, if the bill goes out, they get a

10:30:35 notice on the door that says there may be a leak, there

10:30:38 may be a problem on private property, and that needs to

10:30:44 be looked into.

10:30:46 So that does not continue to the next billing cycle.

10:30:52 What we are finding in these three neighborhoods is

10:30:56 that each person has different problems, and we need to

10:31:02 investigate it on a case-by-case basis to get down to

10:31:05 what the problem is for that customer.

10:31:09 I have listed here on the front page reasons and

10:31:14 contributing factors for high water bills.

10:31:16 And there's 24 of them.

10:31:19 And over half of the 24 listed, we found in these

10:31:23 investigations that we have cheated so far.




10:31:26 And I'll get into those details in a minute.

10:31:29 But I would like to focus on numbers 1, 3, 13 and 24.

10:31:38 Because those four contributing factors have come

10:31:45 together and are compounding, if you will, to these

10:31:50 high bills.

10:31:54 I'm sorry, speak up a little more?

10:31:56 >> Repeat those numbers.

10:31:57 >> I'm sorry.

10:31:59 1, 3, 13, and 24.

10:32:02 First, different from a year ago on number one,

10:32:11 customers can and do irrigate twice a week.

10:32:18 Item number 2.

10:32:20 I'm sorry, item number 3, I would like to spend a

10:32:23 little time on.

10:32:24 And that is the addition of two additional tiers for

10:32:27 high-end use.

10:32:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So on number 1 you are saying customer

10:32:33 watered twice a week and that's the cause of the water

10:32:36 bill going significantly higher?

10:32:41 >> No, not the single cause.

10:32:43 It is a contributing factor. In two of the cases we

10:32:45 investigated, we did notice some watering that actually




10:32:51 was more than twice a week, and in one case watering

10:32:56 every day for, you know, new material, which is

10:32:59 allowed.

10:33:00 In the old rules, you can water every day for 15 days

10:33:04 on new material.

10:33:06 Those have changed.

10:33:10 It's a contributing factor.

10:33:11 I'm not saying it is the sole cause.

10:33:16 >>MARY MULHERN: We are not going to have time -- you

10:33:23 gave us 24 reasons why this might have happened.

10:33:26 And so I guess if we just address the four that you

10:33:32 pulled out, and the first one, it may have been drier

10:33:36 this year, but, I don't know, the first one was about

10:33:41 the irrigation.

10:33:43 That was a rule that we put in effect for last year, I

10:33:46 think, and it wasn't in effect the year before.

10:33:49 So I think -- I don't think that hold much water,

10:33:54 because people, I don't think people's water bills were

10:33:59 four times as hey two years ago when they could water

10:34:02 twice a week.

10:34:03 So it's different from the year before.

10:34:04 But that doesn't seem to me to be possible that that




10:34:10 could make up for these, you know, the people who came

10:34:15 here today were talking about their water bills being,

10:34:18 you know, at least twice, some of them four times, some

10:34:20 of them ten times as high as they were before.

10:34:24 I don't think that carries a lot.

10:34:31 And the same with it being drier than normal in 2010

10:34:34 because it was a lot drier in 2009, I think.

10:34:40 And I guess my question for you -- and if you are just

10:34:43 going to highlight these four reasons that you think

10:34:47 might account for something, do you have any evidence

10:34:50 of this is what --

10:34:55 >>BRAD BAIRD: Yes, I do have examples in here, if you

10:34:57 would like --

10:35:00 >> If you could do your presentation.

10:35:02 >>MARY MULHERN: We do want to hear about the tiers,

10:35:07 because that is what City Council voted on was those

10:35:09 rates.

10:35:11 So if we are in any way responsible for that, we do

10:35:14 need to know.

10:35:20 >>BRAD BAIRD: Okay.

10:35:20 I'll tray to move faster.

10:35:22 I apologize.




10:35:24 The tiers on item 3, the tiers were put in place on May

10:35:31 1 of 2010, this last year.

10:35:34 And the reason they were put in place is the Southwest

10:35:37 Florida Water Management District required a drought

10:35:41 surcharge be placed for all the utilities.

10:35:45 And this is a way to address high-end users, that the

10:35:49 users that were using a lot of water.

10:35:53 And this was several hundred users out of our 124,000

10:35:57 customers.

10:35:58 So it only affected the folks at the very high end.

10:36:03 And the two tiers that were added are tier 5 and 6,

10:36:08 that's toward the back of your packet.

10:36:09 I have a schedule of rates.

10:36:12 And you can see those rates doubled the previous tier

10:36:16 in tier 5 and tripled the previous tier in tier 6.

10:36:20 So, for instance, if you lived in Dana Shores, and you

10:36:25 have a leak in your irrigation system you didn't

10:36:28 notice, and if you lost a lot of water, and you got up

10:36:32 into the sixth tier, you are being charged 20.47 per

10:36:37 unit.

10:36:39 So that adds up in a hurry.

10:36:41 And I have examples to get to that.




10:36:43 So we did have a drier than normal fall.

10:36:49 September, October, November, extremely dry.

10:36:51 We saw an increase in irrigation during that time.

10:36:55 Finally, the weather.

10:36:57 And I know this has been minimized.

10:36:59 However, we have experienced 570 breaks since December

10:37:05 1 as of Tuesday.

10:37:06 In our system.

10:37:10 I have talked to irrigation contractors, to the

10:37:15 Hillsborough County utilities.

10:37:17 They experienced the same thing that we do, an increase

10:37:21 in breaks in the private systems and the public system

10:37:25 when cold weather comes through our area.

10:37:27 It happens every year.

10:37:30 Just an example, last January when it was cold for two

10:37:33 weeks straight we had 1600 breaks in those two weeks

10:37:37 in, that it would be-week period, and landscaper

10:37:42 contractors saw an increase, and they see an increase

10:37:46 every winter.

10:37:49 Specifically on the neighborhoods, on page 2, you can

10:37:53 see the numbers there.

10:37:54 I will not go into the numbers in detail, but the




10:37:57 backup is there for every single address that we

10:38:04 investigated.

10:38:05 We provided the usage history, and the investigation

10:38:09 findings.

10:38:11 Obviously some of them we have not been able to

10:38:14 schedule with the customer or hook up with the

10:38:16 customer, and we have some ongoing.

10:38:18 In fact, we are investigating some in New Tampa this

10:38:21 morning.

10:38:24 However, the bottom line, or the total on leaks, it's

10:38:31 87% of the cases that we have been out on, we have

10:38:35 found leaks.

10:38:36 87%, 27 out of the 31 we have found leaks.

10:38:43 And in at least one, maybe two of the cases, the

10:38:48 customer admitted to overwatering.

10:38:52 And that that may have been the cause of their high

10:38:55 water bills.

10:38:57 We are still inconclusive on a couple of them.

10:39:02 And I do want to remind everybody that, you know, I

10:39:06 hear a lot about this is happening to everyone all

10:39:09 over.

10:39:12 This is so far just hundreds of customers.




10:39:15 We used the numbers, it's under 500 complaints out of

10:39:19 124,000 customers is less than one half of one percent

10:39:23 of our customer base.

10:39:24

10:39:29 On page 12, going past the details of the three

10:39:50 neighborhood, we have provided how leaks can impact

10:39:55 your water bill, and we have listed six examples.

10:40:01 There are more, from five out of six from the

10:40:06 independent source of the leak rate.

10:40:12 Then we have converted them to CCF since that is City

10:40:16 of Tampa bills, and at the bottom -- and I will use an

10:40:22 example of a leaky flapper, for instance, and that's a

10:40:26 flapper that's not seated all the way.

10:40:32 It may be warped.

10:40:33 And you have a leak.

10:40:35 If your average bill, and you are an average customer

10:40:39 using 10 CCF a month, would be $19.65.

10:40:45 I say your average bill.

10:40:46 Your average water portion of the bill.

10:40:51 With that flapper, that bill will go up to $110.19.

10:40:57 So you can see even an insignificant or what people

10:41:01 might think of as insignificant leak can add up in a




10:41:05 hurry.

10:41:06 A running toilet, a running toilet, which is one where,

10:41:10 you know, the flapper guess hung up on the chain, and

10:41:15 we have had customers over the years, they leave on

10:41:18 vacation, flush their toilet, leave on vacation, their

10:41:23 flapper gets stuck, that's what we are talking about

10:41:26 here.

10:41:26 And at that rate a running toilet is 2.5 gallons per

10:41:31 minute.

10:41:32 Again, those aren't my numbers.

10:41:35 Putting that with today's rates and today's tiers, your

10:41:43 average bill would go from $19 to $2956.

10:41:48 So it can happen.

10:41:50 And it does happen.

10:41:51 I've seen it through the years.

10:41:56 On irrigation -- and I won't go through this in detail,

10:41:59 but what this irrigation new and established landscape

10:42:05 cost to you?

10:42:07 So I have shown here, if you add 1,000 sod, up to 7500

10:42:16 feet of sod or landscaping, what that can mean in

10:42:21 additional water use and what that will mean to your

10:42:23 bill.




10:42:24 Also, just with existing established sod and landscape.

10:42:30 You can see the difference in two-day-a-week and

10:42:37 one-day-a-week irrigation.

10:42:41 We have those numbers there.

10:42:42 Obviously if you are adding landscape, that's the

10:42:44 biggest impact because you are watering every day for

10:42:47 30 days.

10:42:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me ask you a question.

10:42:50 We know it was in certain neighborhoods.

10:42:53 You are telling me today primarily that within that

10:42:57 Dana Shores, all of a sudden you have 15 neighbors that

10:43:00 have a running toilet?

10:43:04 >>BRAD BAIRD: No.

10:43:05 No.

10:43:05 And if I -- no.

10:43:07 If you go back through the investigation findings

10:43:09 that's not what we found.

10:43:11 We found the majority of the leaks were outdoor

10:43:13 irrigation leaks.

10:43:17 Sprinkler heads, broken pipelines in the irrigation

10:43:21 system.

10:43:24 If you look at the detailed information, every address




10:43:28 that has investigation findings, that's a leak, I think

10:43:33 only one or two was indoor leak.

10:43:36 I'm not sure if any of those were a toilet leak.

10:43:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What about the person whose water bill

10:43:42 was normal one month, and next month jumps to 2,000,

10:43:46 then the next month jumps back down to normal and

10:43:49 there's been no change in terms of anything?

10:43:50 What about that?

10:43:56 >>BRAD BAIRD: I would say that, again, we need to look

10:43:59 at those on a case-by-case basis, go out to the

10:44:02 property, meet with the homeowner and determine what

10:44:05 has happened, because in every one of these cases we

10:44:09 have found different things.

10:44:11 So I couldn't tell on a hypothetical whether or not or

10:44:16 what it is.

10:44:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Miranda, Councilwoman

10:44:20 Mulhern.

10:44:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You mentioned Dana Shores, and the

10:44:23 good people there are certainly here today.

10:44:25 As I'm looking at your report on the investigative

10:44:28 findings, I look at mostly leaking sprinkler heads in

10:44:33 most parts, and new sod in some, but mostly sprinkler




10:44:41 heads.

10:44:42 And have you made a comparison?

10:44:45 That's not a city sewer system.

10:44:47 Am I correct?

10:44:48 That's billed by the county?

10:44:50 >> In the Dana Shores area, that is billed by

10:44:54 Hillsborough County.

10:44:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me ask you this.

10:44:57 In order to ascertain what has happened, some of the

10:45:01 information is, have you checked with the county

10:45:03 regarding -- we have nothing to do with the outgoing

10:45:07 flow, only the incoming flow, am I correct?

10:45:10 >> Correct.

10:45:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Has the county given you any facts

10:45:13 or figures on the outgoing flow of those meters, which

10:45:16 is not ours?

10:45:19 >>BRAD BAIRD: Yes.

10:45:19 The county reads their meters every month in the Dana

10:45:21 Shores area.

10:45:23 We compared the data from the county meter reads to our

10:45:28 meter reads.

10:45:30 They all matched up.




10:45:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All right.

10:45:35 Then I am looking at one bill that was handed to us and

10:45:37 it had a $403 water bill and the $223 sewer bill for

10:45:43 one month.

10:45:44 The next month, or the next cycle, the consumption in

10:45:48 one month was 51,300 on water for a total of 403, and

10:45:55 the sewer was 223.12.

10:45:57 However, the following month, I guess it went from

10:46:04 November to October, and then from October to November

10:46:07 it had on the waterside consumption zero.

10:46:10 Does that mean that because there was the following

10:46:12 month the meter was not read and it's read the previous

10:46:17 month?

10:46:18 Because what I see here --

10:46:20 >>BRAD BAIRD: That may be the case, yes.

10:46:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Then I see a sewer bill.

10:46:26 >>BRAD BAIRD: Mr. Miranda, could you repeat that again?

10:46:29 >> One second.

10:46:29 If the audience, please, this is not a debate between

10:46:33 the audience and council.

10:46:35 This is council's opportunity to talk to the

10:46:36 administration.




10:46:37 So please, if you will hold your comments down and not

10:46:40 be disruptive so we can get a lot more accomplished.

10:46:43 Thank you.

10:46:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: What I am trying to determine is the

10:46:45 bill is from one month, September to October, number

10:46:51 case 30, units consumption 51,300 for 301.72.

10:46:57 The sewer bill is read every month as you mentioned for

10:47:00 223.12.

10:47:02 Then the next bill which is October to November the

10:47:08 water was zero.

10:47:10 Does that mean you read it from October to November it

10:47:12 was not read but there is a sewer charge of 924?

10:47:19 >> It shouldn't be unless it was a new customer, and

10:47:21 I'm assuming it was not.

10:47:23 It should be based, an estimated month, should be based

10:47:27 on -- is based on the previous 14 months of use.

10:47:33 And that's how the estimate is done.

10:47:35 And then that second month, when it's read, then it's

10:47:41 billed on the actual usage divide by two over those two

10:47:49 months.

10:47:49 So it should not be zero unless they were not in the

10:47:54 residence that month.




10:47:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Because I see a water charge, even

10:47:58 though there was no consumption on 584, does the county

10:48:02 have an added fee just for the right to have water?

10:48:06 >>BRAD BAIRD: That I do not --

10:48:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Don't know, and then 924 where they

10:48:11 use nothing.

10:48:12 And I'm saying how can there be any bill at all?

10:48:14 But then I see an additional service charge of 630

10:48:17 which I don't think even we have.

10:48:20 >>BRAD BAIRD: No, not a service charge.

10:48:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I mentioned earlier and I got a

10:48:24 little hissing on it that the water cost of this area

10:48:27 in the City of Tampa, water department, is one of the

10:48:30 lowest if not the lowest in the west coast.

10:48:32 Is that statement correct?

10:48:35 >>BRAD BAIRD: That is correct.

10:48:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.

10:48:36 >> If I may, could I go into how the tiers impact?

10:48:44 Because I think that is huge.

10:48:46 On page 14, I have specific examples with effects of

10:48:51 the leaks and the tiers.

10:48:54 And three different examples.




10:48:55 And I think it really shed some light on how a leak can

10:49:04 be exacerbated by the rates that have been put in

10:49:08 place.

10:49:10 Customer A.

10:49:11 The first one is an inside leak.

10:49:15 And now an inside leak inside the house is leaking 24

10:49:21 hours a day, seven days a week.

10:49:23 It's continuous.

10:49:24 And that's why I separate it from inside and outside.

10:49:27 If they have no leaks, no problems, and they use 6 CCF

10:49:33 a month, $11.21 is their bill.

10:49:38 Now, if that same customer had a leak such as a running

10:49:44 toilet, and it happened over that 60-day period because

10:49:52 we estimated the first month, and then finally read the

10:49:56 meter in the second month, using the 2010 rates, and

10:50:03 before we added the two tiers, would amount to a bill

10:50:07 of $1,025.

10:50:11 Now, go over to the third column.

10:50:15 If that same usage, same customer, same leak, with

10:50:20 today's rates, and the two added tiers, it almost

10:50:25 doubles our bill to almost $2,000.

10:50:27 Because that leak is happening all the time, and it




10:50:33 bumps you into that tier 5 and 6 that I talked about

10:50:37 earlier.

10:50:38 If I can go to the next two customers are an outside

10:50:42 leak.

10:50:42 And the first one is a customer 18 CCF.

10:50:49 So this is a medium irrigator, medium to low irrigator,

10:50:54 not someone that irrigates a lot.

10:50:56 $43.68.

10:51:00 For theory bill.

10:51:00 All right.

10:51:02 If that same customer has an irrigation leak, $555.80

10:51:10 using last year's rates and only 5 tiers.

10:51:15 Moving over to this year's rates and the seven tiers it

10:51:20 bumps it up to $671.

10:51:25 Because, since this is a medium irrigator they were not

10:51:29 getting into the higher tiers.

10:51:32 Take customer C with an outside leak, and they are a

10:51:36 high irrigator, if no leaks, no problems, 105.11.

10:51:43 Still reasonable bill for somebody who irrigates.

10:51:47 Leaks with the 2010 rates, last year's rates, and

10:51:51 before the tiers were put in, as the new tiers, goes up

10:51:56 nine times to $928.




10:51:59 And their leak accounted, you know, put them over 200

10:52:05 CCF.

10:52:06 That same leak with this year's tiers, this year's

10:52:10 rates, $1822.

10:52:13 It doubles it.

10:52:15 So it's a confluence of events that come together and

10:52:23 are creating sticker shock.

10:52:28 The good news, I think -- and give me maybe ten more

10:52:37 second -- is we have a process for helping the

10:52:39 customers through this.

10:52:42 And I would like to take a minute.

10:52:47 First of all, we provide a ton of information on how to

10:52:52 read meters, how to detect leaks, how to conserve

10:52:55 water.

10:52:56 We have all the things we have done in the last year in

10:53:01 that handout.

10:53:02 Four pages of things we have done just in the year.

10:53:06 I would encourage people to go to the city Web site and

10:53:11 understand all of the advice we have there on how to

10:53:15 read the meter, how to reduce your leaks, how to

10:53:19 conserve water.

10:53:21 Secondly, if you see your bill, you see it just doesn't




10:53:27 make sense, please, we have two avenues.

10:53:30 Call our call center, or the message center.

10:53:34 Right now with the volume coming into the call center,

10:53:37 I would strongly encourage you use the message center

10:53:40 on the city Web site.

10:53:41 Our volumes are very high right now.

10:53:44 So use the message center.

10:53:46 Go to the city Web site.

10:53:47 Click on the message center.

10:53:49 And the advantage there is you get your complaint

10:53:51 recorded, and we can get you into the queue to start

10:53:57 that investigative process.

10:54:00 Finally, if all of that still points to there's a

10:54:08 problem, we need to meet with the customer, we need to

10:54:10 go out and go around the property and try to get to the

10:54:13 bottom of it.

10:54:15 We have put together an investigative team, and we are

10:54:18 going to increase the resources for that team, that

10:54:24 reveal issues, and we can at that point move into a

10:54:30 bill adjustment phase.

10:54:35 And cases as you saw, 87% were leaks.

10:54:41 We can at that point get them documented if they are




10:54:44 corrected -- because we want things to be corrected so

10:54:47 we are not wasting that water -- then we will issue a

10:54:51 leak adjustment.

10:54:53 And with that --

10:54:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern, Councilwoman

10:54:59 Capin.

10:55:00 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Mr. Baird.

10:55:06 The leak, this is helpful, this example of how much

10:55:08 these specific amount of leaks would influence people's

10:55:15 bills.

10:55:19 When did these tier rates -- okay, you have the fiscal

10:55:22 year 2010, five-tier rate.

10:55:26 Did that begin -- when did those rates go into effect?

10:55:31 2010?

10:55:33 >>BRAD BAIRD: When we went from the new rates or the

10:55:35 tiers?

10:55:37 >>MARY MULHERN: What you are listing as leaks with the

10:55:40 fiscal year 2010, five-tier rate.

10:55:43 So the fiscal year 2010, five-tier rate, what month?

10:55:49 >>BRAD BAIRD: That was October 1st in 2009 with the

10:55:55 fiscal year 2010 rates went into effect.

10:55:58 And the tiers were added in May of --




10:56:01 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay, so this sheet that you just went

10:56:03 over with us, an inside leak would have caused their

10:56:08 bill to increase by ten times.

10:56:13 It would have gone from $11 for an inside leak to

10:56:17 $1,000.

10:56:20 >> 100 times.

10:56:22 Correct.

10:56:22 >>MARY MULHERN: Yeah, 100 times.

10:56:25 And all of them, almost 100, for the outside leak.

10:56:29 But we are just hearing about this now.

10:56:32 And when I look over your list of addresses and

10:56:35 complaints, some of them have happened, but in the last

10:56:43 year.

10:56:43 So how is it that in 2009, for instance, if you look at

10:56:52 the first one, there's a doubled.

10:56:57 If you go down to, on page 3, 3935 Versailles drive,

10:57:05 there's is more than ten times from November, December

10:57:10 2009 to November-December this year.

10:57:14 So there's only one of them.

10:57:15 So I don't understand if the tier systems had already

10:57:21 taken effect that we have had a year before we have had

10:57:24 all of these complaints.




10:57:36 So are we back to the weather, blaming the weather?

10:57:39 >>BRAD BAIRD: No, the two additional tiers were added

10:57:41 in May of 2010.

10:57:45 The rate has gone up.

10:57:46 >> I know, but you have already said that it would have

10:57:49 doubled from the five-tier, not the seven-tier.

10:57:54 >>BRAD BAIRD: Right.

10:57:54 So what happens is, if it's a confluence of events, if

10:58:01 you have three months of dry period where you have

10:58:02 increased your watering, in the meantime we have also

10:58:07 allowed to go to two day a week watering, and if you

10:58:11 compound that with a leak on private property, which we

10:58:15 have found in 87% of the cases, and all of those

10:58:21 things, all of those things pish you up into that next

10:58:25 tier, yes, that is what you will see.

10:58:27 >> Then let me ask you this.

10:58:32 So the leaks that you found, that's my next question.

10:58:36 And it just defies logic.

10:58:44 Is all I can say.

10:58:45 It deface logic that even though the rates went up more

10:58:50 in May for high-end users, and that would affect people

10:58:54 who do have some kind of a leak, that it would be this




10:58:57 extreme.

10:58:58 And so I think we have to do a better job.

10:59:04 I'm glad you got more personnel looking into this.

10:59:07 And I think the woman that made the suggestion that we

10:59:12 need a troubleshooter is a great idea.

10:59:15 And somehow, I mean, this isn't the first time we heard

10:59:21 from citizens than they can't get through to someone

10:59:23 because I know our staffing has gone down because of

10:59:27 budget constraints in every department.

10:59:29 But in this case this is a bit of a crisis for people.

10:59:32 So got to open up some phone lines, I think.

10:59:38 So the other -- here is another question.

10:59:45 We are hearing from people -- and I know they

10:59:47 haven't -- there are a lot of people who haven't gotten

10:59:49 through.

10:59:50 I know because I'm running into people on the streets

10:59:52 who haven't called yet or haven't attempted or haven't

10:59:54 gotten through.

10:59:56 When you gave us this list, when was this list compiled

11:00:02 and the people that you looked into their problems?

11:00:07 >> Yeah, it was -- the story broke last week.

11:00:13 >> So this is just things you have addressed in the




11:00:16 last week?

11:00:17 >> Yes.

11:00:17 >> So have you looked at how many, not from the

11:00:23 complaints but based on the readings that you have

11:00:25 gotten, the change from, say, this current -- the last

11:00:29 reading that you did, and that has been billed for,

11:00:34 compared to the reading before that, so that we can see

11:00:40 how many of the customers, and by how much their bills

11:00:45 went up?

11:00:49 Not their bills but their usage.

11:00:51 >> Yes.

11:00:52 And we have that on everyone and that's why the usage

11:00:55 history --

11:00:56 >> no,.

11:00:57 [Motion Carried Unanimously]

11:00:57 Not asking about the complaints.

11:00:59 I'm asking about all the water.

11:01:01 I'm talking about all of our customers.

11:01:03 >> Okay, okay.

11:01:04 >> How much have the bills gone up?

11:01:07 Because that will tell you, number one, if they are

11:01:11 clustered which they seem to be, and also how much they




11:01:16 have gone up, because we are not going to figure out

11:01:18 what we need to -- we have all been supportive, this

11:01:24 council has been very supportive and we passed these

11:01:27 increased rates and these tiers because we wanted to

11:01:29 encourage conservation.

11:01:31 If we find out that what we have done is Draconian, we

11:01:35 need to fix that, but we need to figure out what's

11:01:37 going on.

11:01:38 And my sense is, I mean, we have had leaks at my house,

11:01:42 we have had toilets that have leaked, we have had an

11:01:46 irrigation system that we inherited 12 years ago that

11:01:49 we have turned off and on.

11:01:51 We found the leaks.

11:01:52 We have never had our bills quadruple or double.

11:01:58 So it just defies logic.

11:02:00 So I think it doesn't look good for the city to be

11:02:04 basically telling people, no, it's your problem, if we

11:02:11 haven't investigated, you know, every possible -- if

11:02:14 our measurements are not working.

11:02:15 And I think the way that you do that is you look across

11:02:18 the board, you look at those numbers, and we have got

11:02:23 to be able to do that.




11:02:25 And your new team, you know, hire a statistician or

11:02:29 somebody who can look at that.

11:02:35 I would also like to see -- and then that would show

11:02:39 how these supposed overuse because of leaks compare to

11:02:45 those that aren't.

11:02:51 It just doesn't make sense.

11:02:53 Then I have to ask about this, because I haven't heard

11:02:56 anything, and I did read this in one of the stories --

11:03:04 and the information we get like the day before, the day

11:03:07 of the meeting, we read about the stuff in the paper

11:03:09 just like you do, because we are kind of the last to

11:03:11 know.

11:03:14 But I thought that there were new hand held meters, or

11:03:21 there was some new software put into those meters.

11:03:24 So correct me on that, that there was something about

11:03:26 that in the paper about something, not the meters, but

11:03:32 the readers that people take out.

11:03:35 >> The readers haven't changed.

11:03:37 And I don't have the exact, but it's eight to ten-year

11:03:40 period we have been using the same readers.

11:03:43 And same software for 17 years in our billing system.

11:03:46 >> So nothing has changed with those?




11:03:49 >> Nothing has changed with those.

11:03:50 >> Somebody wrote something in the paper.

11:03:52 >> I guess that's it.

11:03:59 I think that -- we can't just tell people that they

11:04:07 have leaks.

11:04:08 I mean, we heard a lot of people here who have done

11:04:11 their own checking and found that they didn't.

11:04:14 So if you are telling us that this comes down to our

11:04:19 new tier system, then we do have to fix that.

11:04:21 So we need you to do the research and figure out the

11:04:23 data of why that's happening.

11:04:27 >>BRAD BAIRD: That is a big factor.

11:04:29 >>MARY MULHERN: My common sense tells me there's

11:04:31 something wrong in the measurement.

11:04:35 It does not make sense.

11:04:37 Even if your bill is, you know, doubling, it shouldn't

11:04:40 be going up five times, four times, five times.

11:04:46 >>BRAD BAIRD: We triple checked the measurements plus

11:04:48 in the desk audit.

11:04:52 I'm 100 percent confident those measurements are right.

11:04:55 The meter reads are correct.

11:04:57 The water has gone through those meters.




11:05:03 What's happened to it after that and all the factors I

11:05:06 talked about --

11:05:08 >>MARY MULHERN: You are sure that you are billing

11:05:10 according to the meters is what you are saying.

11:05:13 >>BRAD BAIRD: Yes.

11:05:15 >>MARY MULHERN: How do you know that the meters are

11:05:16 working right?

11:05:18 >>BRAD BAIRD: We test them regularly.

11:05:19 We find that they test out at 100 percent.

11:05:25 Meters, when they age, when they get older, they read

11:05:31 slower.

11:05:31 They don't read faster.

11:05:34 What happens is our hard water precipitates other than

11:05:39 the desk and onto the spinning device and it causes it

11:05:42 to slow down.

11:05:44 They don't read faster.

11:05:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Capin.

11:05:52 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you, chairman.

11:05:53 I see these numbers and I can see where the tiers --

11:05:56 how this really is amazing how it can go from $11 to

11:06:04 $1965.

11:06:07 I would be in total shock receiving that at my home.




11:06:11 I do not have an irrigation system.

11:06:15 And I looked at this, and I counted, there were 45

11:06:21 total complaints as of last week or the week before

11:06:24 when this story broke, I think is what you were looking

11:06:28 into or investigating pending.

11:06:31 A total of 27 were found to have leaks.

11:06:40 Out of the 27, 24 were irrigation leaks.

11:06:47 This is in another vein.

11:06:51 But we really need to look into setbacks and those

11:06:56 loans, and the water that is going down the drain.

11:07:05 24 out of 27 leaks, irrigation, water is so important

11:07:13 to our well-being and our thriving economy, and, and we

11:07:21 are pouring it down the sewers.

11:07:24 We need to really a look into this.

11:07:27 Everything else being said, these numbers -- and again,

11:07:35 I suggest everyone in here take one of these packets

11:07:40 and study it.

11:07:42 Because it is filled with information of how this can

11:07:46 happen and how very well -- if you have an irrigation

11:07:55 leak and you don't know about it, and sprinkler heads

11:07:58 do come off and they do leak and you don't know it --

11:08:07 let's try and work with these people however we can.




11:08:12 I understand there's a credit if they repair the leak.

11:08:16 How does that work again?

11:08:17 >> Yes.

11:08:18 The process is, we or you demonstrate that there was a

11:08:27 leak of some kind, we ask that you produce receipts of

11:08:32 the repair, whether it was hiring a plumber, irrigation

11:08:35 contractor, or even if you did it yourself, and, you

11:08:39 know, went to the home improvement store or the

11:08:43 plumbing store an got those parts.

11:08:47 And then we will issue a credit back to the first --

11:08:51 not the first tier.

11:08:53 Tier 1 for all of that water.

11:08:56 And that is a significant credit.

11:08:59 In these cases it will be a significant adjustment to

11:09:02 their bill.

11:09:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano.

11:09:07 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Baird, thank you.

11:09:11 Your staff has responded to many of my calls to my

11:09:14 district.

11:09:14 They have been very cooperative.

11:09:16 I got an e-mail here.

11:09:18 And it says the problem may come from the fact that the




11:09:21 city does not have sufficient staff to read the meters

11:09:24 each month.

11:09:26 Our ordinance requires those meters to be read once a

11:09:29 month.

11:09:30 Is that correct?

11:09:33 >>BRAD BAIRD: I do not -- that might be a question for

11:09:36 Mr. Fletcher.

11:09:38 I don't think it requires they be read once a month but

11:09:41 I do not know that.

11:09:42 >> This is coming from the ordinance, this e-mail.

11:09:46 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: The ordinance provides that the

11:09:54 city will have the authority to bill a customer for

11:09:57 water, reclaimed wallet and/or wastewater on an annual

11:10:01 basis.

11:10:01 So it does envision this idea of going periodically and

11:10:05 then billing during an interim period on an average

11:10:10 basis and trueing up based on an actual reading the

11:10:13 following month which I understand is the current

11:10:14 practice.

11:10:14 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: It may be the current practice

11:10:18 but the ordinance we passed, it says defined by the

11:10:20 resolution as monthly.




11:10:25 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Yes, there's a resolution which

11:10:26 sets the rate, and then there's also the ordinance

11:10:28 which establishes the process for billing, collection,

11:10:32 and steps in that process.

11:10:37 So what is in the ordinance is that it can be done on

11:10:39 an average basis on the intervening months.

11:10:44 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I want that looked at, because

11:10:50 from what I understand, the ordinance says on a monthly

11:10:53 basis.

11:10:55 So defines --

11:11:01 >>GWEN MILLER: You are not coming in on the TV.

11:11:03 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I would refer you to section 26-28

11:11:07 which is billing, and it establishes the billing

11:11:09 process.

11:11:09 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: We have 13-meter readers.

11:11:15 Before I said they were doing 11,000.

11:11:17 I based that on 145,000.

11:11:19 We have 124,000.

11:11:21 So that's a little over 9,000 meters a month that they

11:11:24 are reading each one.

11:11:25 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: That's in the ballpark, correct.

11:11:30 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Are they completing that task of




11:11:32 about 9,000 meters a month?

11:11:34 >> They are reading 9,000 meters every two months.

11:11:37 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Every two months?

11:11:39 >>BRAD BAIRD: Right.

11:11:40 So we estimate one month and then read another month.

11:11:42 So in answer to your first question, do we have the

11:11:48 staff to read every month?

11:11:50 We do not.

11:11:52 We do not have the staff to read meters every month.

11:11:55 >> Who do we employ to change meters?

11:11:58 I had a customer yesterday that called that someone

11:12:01 knocked on the door.

11:12:03 They were going to change the meter and the guy didn't

11:12:06 have a city truck.

11:12:07 He wasn't dressed in a city uniform, if they wear that

11:12:10 little patch.

11:12:12 So she was getting ready to go to work. He changed the

11:12:15 meter.

11:12:16 When she came home there was waters all over the

11:12:18 street.

11:12:18 Evidently the meter wasn't put in properly.

11:12:21 So they called the water department, came out and




11:12:23 corrected it.

11:12:28 Do we have a subcontractor doing that?

11:12:30 >> We have had contractors doing that, and of course we

11:12:32 do that in-house as well.

11:12:35 If you could give me an address that that occurred,

11:12:37 we'll follow up and look into that.

11:12:39 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: When a meter has sprinklers on,

11:12:43 it may have five zones set for 15 minutes.

11:12:47 If there's a leak in that zone, is that going to pump

11:12:51 the same amount of water as if there were no leaks?

11:12:55 How many pound of pressure is in that system?

11:12:58 About 06-pound?

11:12:59 >> It depends on of course how big the leak is, but

11:13:02 typically it would pump a lot more water with a leak.

11:13:07 A broken pipe, seriously cracked pipe, sprinkler heads

11:13:11 off, will send more water onto your lawn than if you

11:13:16 just had the head on there.

11:13:19 >> Okay.

11:13:19 Do we have a system that's going to notify a customer

11:13:23 when there is excessive use on their water meter?

11:13:29 >> Yes.

11:13:30 And I'm glad you brought that up.




11:13:33 When we go out for that, when I was talking about the

11:13:36 re-read and how many times we read the meter, when we

11:13:39 go out for that, after we read it twice, and it goes

11:13:42 through the exception, desk audit, as I call it, the

11:13:47 meter reader goes back out for a third time or a third

11:13:50 read.

11:13:52 At that point we do put a notice on the door, that

11:13:57 talks about checks, if your meter reading were

11:14:01 verified, and the leak indicator was moving or it was a

11:14:06 higher than normal consumption, and that gives you a

11:14:09 heads-up before you get the bill, and what I would like

11:14:12 to add to that is -- and we have been discussing it

11:14:15 internally, is provide additional information on what

11:14:19 to look for, now, rather than have somebody have to

11:14:21 hunt through the Web site and figure it out.

11:14:24 We could provide it at that time.

11:14:27 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I talked to Mr. Daignault

11:14:31 yesterday.

11:14:31 He told me we have seven tiers, not six.

11:14:35 >>BRAD BAIRD: We do have seven tiers.

11:14:37 The first tier starts at tier zero.

11:14:40 I'm not sure why, but it starts at tier zero.




11:14:43 So our top tier is tier 6 but it's seven tiers.

11:14:46 >> Now, the people who receive a $1400 bill for water,

11:14:53 and they have a $600 sewer charge, what is that money

11:14:58 used for in the sewer charge?

11:15:02 >> To treat the wastewater.

11:15:05 >> It's to treat the wastewater and put it out there

11:15:08 for people who are using reclaimed water?

11:15:11 >>BRAD BAIRD: It depends on how the utility is set up.

11:15:13 We have a separate rate associated with reclaimed

11:15:16 water.

11:15:17 So the wastewater charges are just for the City of

11:15:20 Tampa associated with treating and transmitting the

11:15:25 wastewater.

11:15:25 >> So a person who does not vice-president reclaimed

11:15:28 water in his district is paying the same rate as

11:15:31 somebody who has reclaimed water?

11:15:34 >> The same rate for the wastewater charges?

11:15:37 >> Right.

11:15:37 >> Yes.

11:15:38 >> They have the same.

11:15:39 Don't you think if they don't have the privilege of

11:15:41 using reclaimed water that they should have a separate




11:15:45 rate?

11:15:45 Because they are paying to treat that reclaimed water

11:15:47 and don't have use of that reclaimed water.

11:15:50 >> We charge a separate rate for that reclaimed water.

11:15:57 >> When you bill them for their sewer charge, there's

11:16:07 in a two tiers on the rate for sewer charge.

11:16:10 There's one price?

11:16:11 >> Right.

11:16:12 One price.

11:16:13 And then we have a separate charge for reclaimed water.

11:16:15 And that system was determined based on high volume

11:16:22 irrigators and how close they were to the treatment

11:16:24 plant.

11:16:28 And we only have 4,000 reclaimed customers or 5,000

11:16:31 now, I guess.

11:16:32 >> So everybody in the city, the 124,000 users, who

11:16:35 have high rates on their sewer charges, are paying for

11:16:40 the 24,000 who are using the reclaimed water even

11:16:43 though they are paying for the reclaimed water?

11:16:48 >>BRAD BAIRD: No, no.

11:16:49 The wastewater rate just pays for treatment of the

11:16:51 wastewater and transmission of the wastewater.




11:16:55 It doesn't go over into the reclaimed account or the

11:16:59 reclaimed cost center.

11:17:01 >> Maybe I'm -- maybe I'm not explaining myself

11:17:09 properly.

11:17:09 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Administrator for public works,

11:17:13 utilities.

11:17:13 I will be glad to sit down with you and go through the

11:17:16 process. But each of those rates are set based on the

11:17:19 actual cost to provide to those customers.

11:17:23 So the reclaimed is based on the availability to just

11:17:26 those customers that have that availability and the

11:17:29 cost for us to provide it.

11:17:31 That's all it is.

11:17:33 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I want to sit down with you and

11:17:35 get that clarified.

11:17:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Stokes and then councilman

11:17:39 Mulhern.

11:17:39 Let me just say to council that we are set to break,

11:17:42 recess at 11:45.

11:17:47 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Could I address the council for

11:17:50 just a few minutes?

11:17:51 I'll be glad to address all the questions.




11:17:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Just one second.

11:17:55 We are scheduled to break at 11:45 and then we have to

11:17:57 come back and take up the rest of the agenda after

11:18:00 that.

11:18:00 So I am just putting everybody on notice.

11:18:02 But I would like to take up, because we have the chief

11:18:04 here to take up the item 64 and the other law

11:18:09 enforcement officers that are here.

11:18:13 Councilman Stokes.

11:18:17 >>CURTIS STOKES: I will be very brief.

11:18:19 Mr. Bared, thank you for responding to the request that

11:18:21 I made to your office.

11:18:23 How is the sewer charge calculated?

11:18:27 We are focusing on the irrigation portion of the bills.

11:18:32 How is the sewer charge calculated?

11:18:36 >>BRAD BAIRD: The sewer charge is calculated in two

11:18:38 different ways.

11:18:39 If you have a separate irrigation meter, it's directly

11:18:43 one for one based on what goes through the water meter.

11:18:48 Multiplied by the sewer charge, or the sewer rates.

11:18:51 If you do not have an irrigation meter, it's charged

11:18:56 the same way but there's a max that you can be charged




11:19:01 to account for irrigation.

11:19:02 >> So what's the correlation between the water usage

11:19:10 and the sewer usage?

11:19:11 There seems to be a high water usage and sewer usage.

11:19:16 What's the correlation?

11:19:18 >>BRAD BAIRD: All the water that's used indoor results

11:19:20 in a sewer charge.

11:19:21 >> The amount --

11:19:28 >> One for one.

11:19:29 The water that goes inside the house, you receive a

11:19:31 sewer charge on that.

11:19:31 >> One for one?

11:19:35 >>BRAD BAIRD: One for one.

11:19:38 >>CURTIS STOKES: How do you explain that in the empty

11:19:40 condo?

11:19:41 The empty condo where there is no water usage?

11:19:46 >>BRAD BAIRD: I don't know at this point until we

11:19:47 investigate, if there was a leak that was undetected,

11:19:51 it could be something else.

11:19:52 But if I can get that address, we'll put that on the

11:19:54 list to investigate.

11:19:56 >> We will be around afterwards so we can collect those




11:20:10 addresses from people.

11:20:11 >>MARY MULHERN: I want to address that since so many

11:20:18 people came down and I don't know how many people were

11:20:20 able to reach somebody to help them figure out what's

11:20:22 going on, if you would have people available to talk to

11:20:24 the people who are here now since they came all the way

11:20:27 down here.

11:20:29 After this agenda item is finished.

11:20:31 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Absolutely.

11:20:34 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you beings.

11:20:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Daignault.

11:20:40 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Thank you.

11:20:43 First of all, we can see all the anxious people hear

11:20:45 and we have been hearing from them both online and over

11:20:49 the phone for a couple of weeks now.

11:20:52 What we want to say first of all, nobody's water is

11:20:57 going to be shut off.

11:20:58 We are not going to have people without water.

11:20:58 We are not going to shut their water off.

11:21:02 We have to look at these things on a case-by-case

11:21:04 basis.

11:21:05 There are different reasons for different folks to have




11:21:09 high water bills.

11:21:10 So we are not trying to generalize, we are not trying

11:21:13 to say, well, it what it is weather and it is your yard

11:21:16 or your irrigation.

11:21:17 We are trying to say this could be an issue and this

11:21:20 could be an issue, and we also know that our system has

11:21:23 to be looked at, and it's under scrutiny.

11:21:27 We are going to continue to look at our system.

11:21:29 We are going to continue to when we do our

11:21:32 investigation, we are going to start from the meter and

11:21:34 go all the way through the process.

11:21:36 We are going to make sure it's being read right.

11:21:38 We are going to make sure it's operating right.

11:21:39 So we would like to have the citizens, our customers,

11:21:44 feel like we are in a partnership here when we talk to

11:21:49 them and when we talk to the press, what we said is you

11:21:52 are the first line of defense.

11:21:53 You receive a bill, it doesn't look right, please check

11:21:56 your systems.

11:21:57 Just check the -- look at your irrigation system.

11:22:00 A lot of people's irrigation runs at night and they

11:22:03 don't see it operated.




11:22:04 Watch it.

11:22:05 See what happens.

11:22:05 Do things on your side.

11:22:07 If you still have a problem, call us.

11:22:09 And we are going to get people out there.

11:22:12 We are going to double our staff.

11:22:15 And you all November what we are going through in the

11:22:17 city as far as staff sizing.

11:22:19 And even though the water department is an enterprise

11:22:22 fund, we are downsized as well.

11:22:24 But we are going to find resources within our staff and

11:22:28 we are going to double the amount of folks that are out

11:22:30 looking into these issues.

11:22:32 And we are committed to getting this done both to you,

11:22:35 to the mayor, and to the citizens.

11:22:38 No matter how long it takes.

11:22:40 And if we have to stay the people's bill higher than

11:22:45 what they normally pay until we can get out and

11:22:47 investigate it, that's what we are going to do.

11:22:49 We need to make sure everybody is touching base with

11:22:51 us, either through a phone call to the customer service

11:22:56 center or through the Web site, so that we have them in




11:23:00 our list of issues, and we want to touch base with

11:23:04 them, and we will resolve it.

11:23:05 It's going to take us some time but we are going to do

11:23:08 it.

11:23:08 So that's our commitment to you.

11:23:10 Again, nobody is going to lose their water.

11:23:12 We are not going to turn it off.

11:23:13 We are not going to make them pay an unreasonable bill.

11:23:16 And if they find a problem, a leak, let's get it fixed

11:23:20 for the benefit of all the customers, and we can adjust

11:23:24 your bill.

11:23:25 Again, we want to work with everybody.

11:23:26 And it's just going to take us some time to do that.

11:23:29 But please get into our system again either by phone

11:23:32 call or through the computer.

11:23:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Miller, then councilman

11:23:39 Miranda, then we need to move will.

11:23:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you for all you are going to do

11:23:43 to help them out, but one thing, if they won't be able

11:23:48 to pay, are you going to work with them to be able to

11:23:51 make a payment or something?

11:23:52 Because I know we'd we have a lot of single parents




11:23:54 that said they couldn't afford to pay that bill.

11:23:56 I was wondering would you put that on the record that

11:23:59 you will give them some kind of installment to pay that

11:24:02 bill?

11:24:05 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Absolutely.

11:24:06 And I appreciate you bringing that up.

11:24:07 That's how we have worked and we will continue to do

11:24:10 that.

11:24:10 But we will work with them.

11:24:11 If there is still a high bill and it's all bona fide,

11:24:13 if they have to be pay it, we'll work with them.

11:24:15 But again we want to work to make sure they are paying

11:24:18 only for the service they get, and that it's not going

11:24:20 someplace else.

11:24:21 >>GWEN MILLER: I appreciate that.

11:24:23 I know they'll appreciate you doing that for them, too.

11:24:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

11:24:28 Various things.

11:24:28 First of all, sticker shock, that's number one.

11:24:31 Number two, frustration is just as great if not greater

11:24:33 when you call and you are on the line for 45 minutes to

11:24:36 an hour, can't get through.




11:24:38 Who is going to help me?

11:24:40 So your mind starts to get radioactive like mine could.

11:24:44 Thirdly, and the last ten years, we bought 23 billion

11:24:48 gallons of Tampa Bay water a that cost us $43 million.

11:24:52 If we don't fix the way we do business, in ten years,

11:24:57 that's going to go to 70-some million dollars in

11:25:01 purchases of water, and I talked about this eight, nine

11:25:04 years ago.

11:25:06 I said water is like oil, and it's going to go up like

11:25:08 oil, because of the population increases the demand

11:25:11 goes down because we don't have enough to supply what

11:25:13 we need.

11:25:15 So all these things have to be recognized, not only by

11:25:19 us, by the general public, and we have to do a much

11:25:22 better job of disseminating this information and tell

11:25:25 them what's coming in the next ten years.

11:25:27 It is incumbent.

11:25:28 I always do things.

11:25:30 Maybe I'm a little odd ball in water because I conserve

11:25:33 a lot of it.

11:25:35 Every year, on my birthday I change the flappers.

11:25:38 That's my gift to me.




11:25:43 Everybody buys new cars.

11:25:44 I buy two flappers.

11:25:46 So what I'm trying to say is, five-minute showers.

11:25:50 If I do more than that, I spank myself.

11:25:54 I don't like to see my water bill is three to four

11:25:59 units a month because I'm living by myself.

11:26:02 I don't irrigate.

11:26:04 In fact I change my whole system but myself little by

11:26:08 little.

11:26:08 My yard is made up of rocks.

11:26:13 Not grass

11:26:14 That's fine if you want to have grass.

11:26:16 It's fine if you want to buy a new lawn.

11:26:18 I applaud you for it.

11:26:19 But with these complicated times, you have to look at

11:26:23 yourself in the mirror and say, where do I want to go

11:26:27 from here?

11:26:27 I'm talking to everybody, not just the people here.

11:26:30 If we don't change the way we operate and go to

11:26:34 indirect water use in the future, like is done all over

11:26:38 the country, we won't have the water for growth.

11:26:41 If you don't have water for growth, you are going to




11:26:45 stymie yourself, you can forget about light rail,

11:26:48 forget about jobs, forget about opportunities.

11:26:50 When you don't have water, you don't have anything.

11:26:52 And we are going to become more and more dependent on

11:26:55 buying water instead of supplying water.

11:27:00 This today to me is something that brings to light what

11:27:04 the future of this city is going to mean.

11:27:06 And I welcome the good people to come here and bring

11:27:09 this to our attention.

11:27:11 We have to change the system, and all of us, the water

11:27:15 department and the general population of the City of

11:27:17 Tampa, the 600-some thousand customers, has to come up

11:27:27 and say, okay, I have to do my part, whatever that part

11:27:29 is, to make sure that I have conservation.

11:27:32 Just two years ago, we were within days of when you

11:27:35 turn on your faucet, you don't have to worry about a

11:27:39 water bill.

11:27:39 There would have been no water coming out of that

11:27:40 faucet.

11:27:40 The good people of this community lowered it from 95

11:27:44 million gallons a day use to under 60.

11:27:47 They did an outstanding job.




11:27:48 But I have noticed the reservoir before the rain we had

11:27:51 a couple of days ago was already down about three and a

11:27:54 half feet, and that spells danger.

11:27:57 So what we are looking at this year is a very dry

11:28:01 season coming up.

11:28:03 And if that big reservoir 16 billion goes down for two

11:28:06 years and we have a dry spell coming up, we are going

11:28:11 to see worse than what we had before, in my estimation.

11:28:14 So we better get prepared to look at the future way

11:28:17 beyond my life, and I hope I got more than one or two

11:28:23 days left.

11:28:24 But what I am saying is these problems have to be

11:28:26 addressed.

11:28:28 And we have done a good job, from 16% of water uses

11:28:33 going down, our leak and our system down to under 8,

11:28:37 because you good people were willing to go on and help

11:28:40 us change the system from 10 miles of replacement, to

11:28:46 40 miles of replacement.

11:28:48 You cannot do patchwork in water and survive.

11:28:50 Mr. Chairman, I know you are looking at me like you

11:28:52 want to tell me that's enough.

11:28:54 I am going to take the hint.




11:28:56 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

11:28:59 >>CURTIS STOKES: I'll be real brief.

11:29:00 Mr. Daignault, thank you for your willingness to assist

11:29:03 our client in the city.

11:29:04 One thing you haven't given us a time frame but when

11:29:09 you come back to us with an explanation of this issue.

11:29:12 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Council member, I will be glad to

11:29:15 come back as often as you want me to as we work through

11:29:17 this process to give you the information that we are

11:29:20 finding.

11:29:22 >>CURTIS STOKES: But on this issue.

11:29:23 Is it going to take you 30 days or 20 days to come back

11:29:26 with an explanation to come back of what's going on?

11:29:30 >> It depends very much on the calls we have, and the

11:29:34 resources we have to go look at them.

11:29:36 Frequently we have to make an appointment with an

11:29:38 individual.

11:29:38 We don't just go on their property.

11:29:40 So it takes us some time to do this.

11:29:42 I'm going to guess it's going to take us a couple of

11:29:45 months to get through this.

11:29:48 >>CURTIS STOKES: No, not the individual client but the




11:29:50 overall issue that's going on.

11:29:53 It seems to be an overall issue going on with the water

11:29:55 bill issue.

11:29:56 Not just at the client level but the overall issue.

11:30:03 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: The only way I can resolve the

11:30:06 overall issue is one client at the time.

11:30:08 I'm sorry, I will collect data on that.

11:30:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Why don't we get a report back to us

11:30:12 then in two weeks and see where we are?

11:30:15 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.

11:30:16 And I would like to add to that, that what I had asked

11:30:19 Mr. Baird for, because as councilman Stokes said, we

11:30:24 don't know yet if the cost has gone up across the

11:30:31 board, at least for these people in the neighborhoods

11:30:34 that had their bills go up, or if it's just the people

11:30:36 who we have heard those tip of the iceberg complaints

11:30:42 yet.

11:30:43 So we do need to see the data, perhaps if we looked at

11:30:50 all of Tampa Heights customers -- not Tampa Heights.

11:30:53 I'm sorry.

11:30:54 New Tampa.

11:30:55 And Dana Shores, and -- what was the other one?




11:31:04 >> Dana Shores, New Tampa, and --

11:31:11 >>MARY MULHERN: And I have been hearing from some

11:31:13 people in South Tampa, too.

11:31:15 I don't know if that's a cluster but basically to see

11:31:17 which, you know, if we are to believe -- and it sounds

11:31:21 like it's because of the tiered system that we created,

11:31:25 I think we do need to encourage conservation, but if

11:31:32 it's going to make people's water bills go up ten times

11:31:36 what they are as opposed to maybe two or three, maybe

11:31:39 we need to look at that.

11:31:41 So we need to figure out, we need to address that

11:31:44 tiered system.

11:31:45 >> Well, the only problem with that is that the tiered

11:31:50 system, because it's SWFWMD, as I understand, pretty

11:31:53 much that was a legal issue or an issue that was passed

11:31:57 down through us through SWFWMD.

11:31:58 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: City attorney.

11:32:03 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want to know if that's causing

11:32:05 it.

11:32:05 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: If you would like in addition, we

11:32:08 could have SWFWMD address the higher tier.

11:32:10 You all have clearly the legal authority to set the




11:32:14 rates as you see fit consistent with state law, that

11:32:18 SWFWMD does have regulatory tools that drive us in that

11:32:21 direction of setting the higher tiers an it was at

11:32:25 their request.

11:32:26 >> We are asking for the data.

11:32:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I would request at this time that we

11:32:33 have a motion to come back in two weeks.

11:32:38 >>CURTIS STOKES: So moved.

11:32:40 >> Second.

11:32:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And part of that motion again that

11:32:43 they work with the customers on their bills.

11:32:50 Does that include that?

11:32:51 >> Yes, sir.

11:32:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

11:32:53 Yes, sir?

11:32:56 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: After we pass that motion.

11:32:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

11:32:59 All in favor?

11:33:00 Opposes?

11:33:00 Also you are going to be meeting with the people who

11:33:02 are here who have not had their issues addressed.

11:33:06 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: We would like to invite any




11:33:08 customers or citizens who would like to be meet with

11:33:10 Brad and I down in the mascot on the first floor, we'll

11:33:14 be glad to talk with them.

11:33:15 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: My aide is setting up a meeting

11:33:20 probably for next Wednesday in the northern part of my

11:33:22 district.

11:33:22 He's trying to get a location that either you and you

11:33:26 can come up, Mr. Daignault, so that the residents could

11:33:29 be before you and ask the questions that they have,

11:33:32 because it's a little difficult for them to come down

11:33:35 here.

11:33:38 We'll let you know.

11:33:38 Thank you.

11:33:39 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to move to item 64 pretty

11:33:42 quickly here.

11:33:43 Ask Mr. Fletcher if he will come forward here on the

11:33:47 solicitation ordinance.

11:33:49 Again, this was the issue that we -- if you can hold

11:33:53 the conversation down, I would appreciate it, please.

11:33:56 We are still in session.

11:33:58 This issue that brought forth from last Thursday night.

11:34:04 Thank you, council, for at least putting it on the




11:34:06 agenda for Mr. Fletcher to appear before us, to look at

11:34:08 all of our options.

11:34:09 So Mr. Fletcher, if you would speak to that, I would

11:34:12 appreciate it very much.

11:34:13 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: The draft ordinance that we have

11:34:16 prepared at you all's request is an approach that we

11:34:19 have talked about in very general terms before council

11:34:22 before.

11:34:23 It is having a prohibition only on the arterial roads

11:34:28 and interstates, and interstate ramps within the city.

11:34:35 On those roadways consistent with the St. Pete

11:34:37 approach, but only the arterials and the interstates

11:34:43 and the ramps, and we circulated an ordinance earlier

11:34:46 this week that provides for that, in addition to the

11:34:49 arterials and a also the intersections so we are sure

11:34:53 on what we are covering.

11:34:56 Also, we referenced another code provision that

11:34:59 provides definitions an stands for determining what is

11:35:01 an arterial, what's a collector, what's an interstate,

11:35:05 and the transportation department has generated a map

11:35:07 based on the current design and functionality of the

11:35:09 roads shows which roads would be covered and which




11:35:13 roads would not be covered.

11:35:14 And that was also provided to you all.

11:35:18 For information, the chief Bennett is here, we

11:35:22 coordinator nature -- coordinated with the police

11:35:24 department and transportation department and at this

11:35:25 time I would suggest he's available to provide

11:35:29 information.

11:35:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Chief Bennett and also the

11:35:31 transportation department to -- again I think it's very

11:35:34 important for those that are here, this is not a

11:35:37 complete ban.

11:35:38 People saying it's complete.

11:35:40 It is not.

11:35:40 Will you speak to that again, Mr. Fletcher?

11:35:43 This is not a completes ban.

11:35:44 This is primarily along arterials?

11:35:52 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: That's right.

11:35:52 The larger arterials designed for higher traffic volume

11:35:56 and typically with higher speeds.

11:35:58 So from the safety perspective, I think you will hear

11:36:03 from law enforcement that they would prefer a full ban.

11:36:06 But this is a step in the right direction, and it




11:36:10 eliminates the solicitation on the roadways that are

11:36:13 the higher risk roadways.

11:36:15 >> Okay.

11:36:16 Chief Bennett.

11:36:19 Then our transportation department.

11:36:20 >> John Bennett, assistant chief, Tampa Police

11:36:27 Department.

11:36:28 I want to refresh the data that I provided several

11:36:31 months ago as relates to this very important public

11:36:34 safety issue.

11:36:37 Before I want to quantify that, I want to mention this

11:36:42 does not supplant our compassion for the issue as a

11:36:44 department in the community.

11:36:46 I personally stopped and had conversations in the

11:36:48 roadways as well as our officers, and we are very

11:36:51 understanding of the global picture and we have

11:36:54 attended all the workshops in the county.

11:36:59 But I would like to present this public safety risk in

11:37:01 two different data formats.

11:37:05 Way did is I look at 100-day study, and inside that

11:37:09 study I looked at different types of intersections,

11:37:13 crash data, as well as the calls for service data, and




11:37:17 I can tell you that from looking at this data and

11:37:19 looking deeper into the materials and the written

11:37:21 reports, the crash possibility is just one of those

11:37:25 threats.

11:37:26 Throws also an unknown factor because the drivers don't

11:37:29 know who is coming up to that window.

11:37:31 This is an unlicensed scenario where we have discovered

11:37:37 criminal histories in some of the arrests, that I know

11:37:41 most people would be fearful if that person was

11:37:43 knocking on your window. I am going to go through some

11:37:46 of those as I bring this data up but I wanted to make

11:37:49 that point.

11:37:50 We located about three years of crash data, and inside

11:37:53 the city we averaged about 39 fatalities a year across

11:37:56 the board.

11:37:57 Now these are motor vehicle, pedestrian and cyclist

11:38:01 crashes.

11:38:02 About 16 of those representing about 41% are pedestrian

11:38:06 driven.

11:38:06 So just shy of half are involving pedestrians.

11:38:10 About every third day we have a pedestrian hit and

11:38:12 injured, so we are having about 133 or so pedestrian




11:38:18 crashes each year.

11:38:23 And the last two years average has been trending up a

11:38:25 little bit inside the overall data injuries and

11:38:28 fatalities as compared to the state and the nation.

11:38:30 So it's essentially what we are looking at is anybody

11:38:33 in the road that's not obeying the Americas of the

11:38:37 intersection, the design of the intersection has

11:38:39 propensity to be a victim of a pedestrian driven crash.

11:38:43 70% of those crashes I talked about are the fault of

11:38:45 the pedestrian.

11:38:46 Because they are not traversing either -- they are

11:38:48 doing mid-block crossings and things like that.

11:38:51 When I switched to calls for service, we created a call

11:38:53 back in October to track solicitation in the

11:38:58 right-of-way calls, and since October -- and it's been

11:39:02 trending up every month, but we have had basically a

11:39:06 little shy of three a day, 2.75 a day calls, and we

11:39:10 have been averaging a little over one arrest a day for

11:39:13 the statutes and ordinances that are already on the

11:39:16 books.

11:39:16 So you can see the police energy that's starting to

11:39:19 grow towards the issue in the street and the




11:39:21 right-of-way.

11:39:24 We ask our motorists constantly, there's a myriad of

11:39:28 laws that when you arrive at an intersection that it

11:39:31 takes your attention, you want to of course be

11:39:34 perpendicular traffic, we ask them not to change lanes

11:39:38 by statute, we tell them not to follow too closely, we

11:39:41 ask them to stop prior to the crosswalk to allow

11:39:43 pedestrians to move, by their legal movement across

11:39:46 from point A to point B.

11:39:48 We do all kind of things to tell motorists, whether

11:39:52 they are pedestrian, cyclist, to reduce all the risks

11:39:57 possible.

11:39:57 So by putting somebody in those intersections, all we

11:40:00 are doing is increasing that risk based on the data

11:40:03 that we have seen.

11:40:05 It's really our job to keep the streets safe.

11:40:09 We can't say that there's anything safe about operating

11:40:11 inside the mediums of the roadway, in the streets of

11:40:14 Tampa, based on the data and the calls that we have

11:40:17 seen.

11:40:18 I would also like to mention that outside of the datas

11:40:21 that I have just given you for crash statistics, we




11:40:24 have been fielding complaints from I had identity

11:40:26 confusion.

11:40:27 Way many by that, we have folks that are wearing the

11:40:30 vests that are being confused with construction workers

11:40:32 and vice versa.

11:40:34 We have had what I call HALO calls from folks that are

11:40:38 working the intersections that are going and having

11:40:41 trespass scenarios in the area businesses, and ware

11:40:44 also responding to turf war calls.

11:40:51 So the energy is definitely there in the roadway.

11:40:53 So that is the public safety package that we continue

11:40:55 to see over the last 100 days.

11:40:59 I would be happy to take any questions.

11:41:00 >> And we can hear from transportation.

11:41:11 >> Jean Dorzback, transportation manager.

11:41:13 Basically, the transportation division is supportive of

11:41:17 the information and data you just heard from the police

11:41:20 department.

11:41:21 We work very closely with the police on

11:41:24 accident-related issues.

11:41:25 We take the information that they get from their

11:41:28 accident reports, and we use that to develop projects




11:41:31 that have some physical change that we can make on the

11:41:35 ground, that will improve particular intersection or

11:41:38 location.

11:41:40 We are evolving toward the more multimodal culture with

11:41:44 our roads, and we have got a lot of fronts going on in

11:41:47 that regard.

11:41:48 However, we do design the roads to have minimal

11:41:52 interface with the pedestrians.

11:41:54 For example, we have crosswalks that we place at

11:41:57 intersections on an indication basis at mid block

11:42:03 location where is we are trying to direct people to a

11:42:05 certain point in the roadway where we want them to

11:42:07 cross, and to the best extent we can, we put in

11:42:13 pedestrian heads to let people know exactly how much

11:42:15 time they have to get from point A to point B on the

11:42:18 roadway.

11:42:18 Our goal is to keep the people off the road as much as

11:42:21 possible for the use of crosswalks and sidewalks as

11:42:26 they can be walking along the roadway but not in the

11:42:29 roadway.

11:42:30 Essentially, the transportation division is also in

11:42:33 support of the police position on this matter which is




11:42:37 our goal is to have the safe environment for everyone,

11:42:40 allow the road to be used to the best extent possible

11:42:42 for all modes, but to minimize the interaction of

11:42:46 pedestrians with the roadways that we have minimal

11:42:49 accidents and injuries.

11:42:50 >> Let me ask Mr. Fletcher to come back and allow

11:42:53 council to raise any questions they have.

11:42:56 Council, as you know, all of us have been working on

11:42:58 this issue for several months, and in particular I want

11:43:01 to thank councilman Caetano for his lead and his

11:43:06 involvement on this issue.

11:43:08 Over the last several months I would say Mr. Fletcher

11:43:11 and I probably meet almost every week on this

11:43:13 particular issue having debate and discussion on it

11:43:16 relative to the partial ban, because again I recognize

11:43:20 there are those who come from the newspaper industry

11:43:24 making suggestions, and in our discussion he found it

11:43:27 very difficult and problem at he can for some of those

11:43:30 recommendations.

11:43:31 My intent is here to be try to move forward, one, as an

11:43:34 issue that you is legally defensible, as well as for

11:43:38 the public safety as we move forward, and at the same




11:43:41 time allow those who may be have a legitimate job to

11:43:47 continue to function in some way in that particular

11:43:49 business.

11:43:51 But a complete ban would eliminate everything but a

11:43:55 partial ban.

11:43:58 I think we should try that first.

11:44:01 And I think that would help this community, even though

11:44:05 and protect those persons who are out there.

11:44:07 We do know that everyone is not going to abide by what

11:44:11 has taken place now, and that it requires more

11:44:13 enforcement by our particular police department.

11:44:18 I did talk with the Chief Castor on this issue, and she

11:44:23 is in support as well, and other community people I

11:44:26 talk with seem to be in support of the partial ban.

11:44:31 So that's why I asked Mr. Fletcher last Thursday to

11:44:35 comment, bring something or at least put it on the

11:44:38 floor to at least attempt to get it before us.

11:44:41 Okay?

11:44:42 Could you tell us about the other suggestion relative

11:44:46 to what has been made that you feel was problematic?

11:44:49 >> The primary one that has come up in various

11:44:55 different forms is the idea of requiring training to be




11:44:59 able to solicit in the right-of-way.

11:45:04 While legally that may be possible, we have to be

11:45:08 careful that we don't have an issue with what's called

11:45:11 prior restraint where we put a restraint on someone's

11:45:14 free speech that's not based on a particular public

11:45:17 safety or other public purpose, and in this case we

11:45:21 would also not be able to charge those folks that are

11:45:25 not able to pay that fee.

11:45:28 So it's a challenge to figure out how you structure a

11:45:32 training program that meets those tests and is not a

11:45:35 significant financial impact on the city both in terms

11:45:38 of the timing of course, the organization of course is

11:45:41 in the cost involved.

11:45:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Speak to the permitting process.

11:45:45 The permitting fees.

11:45:46 That's been suggested.

11:45:47 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Yes.

11:45:49 Again, we are in a legal environment where we are not

11:45:54 able to do traditional permitting because of the status

11:45:57 of the state statutes, the federal court rulings and

11:45:59 the state court rulings, so we have got that issue

11:46:02 which we have briefed you on before.




11:46:06 Because we are not able to set up a permitting process,

11:46:09 it becomes very difficult to then impose a permit fee

11:46:12 or something else that we may call something else, it's

11:46:18 essentially a permit fee, and because of the speech

11:46:20 issue and the disproportionate impact on people who

11:46:23 don't have financial means, establishing that fee would

11:46:27 be a challenge that we would have to overcome that's

11:46:32 very difficult.

11:46:33 So that's why we are not recommending going in that

11:46:35 direction as well.

11:46:36 >> Could you speak to the issue of only allowing the

11:46:40 nonprofits or the special needs, organization who

11:46:47 generally collect like for M.S. and speak to that?

11:46:51 >> That is the core defect with the state statute.

11:46:54 The state statute requires that municipalities and

11:46:57 counties that do permitting exempt those nonprofits

11:47:01 that meet certain conditions.

11:47:03 That's what the federal courts have said is

11:47:05 impermissible.

11:47:06 You have to treat all parties that are going to operate

11:47:09 and solicit in the right-of-way the same.

11:47:11 So we are not able to create exemptions or different




11:47:14 treatment for different types of activities in the

11:47:16 right-of-way.

11:47:17 Any regulation has to be content neutral.

11:47:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's exactly what got us to where

11:47:23 we are at today.

11:47:24 When that was changed, and there were permit fees

11:47:27 there, was a bond you had to put up.

11:47:29 The Shriners were doing it and the firefighters were

11:47:31 doing it for muscular dystrophy, the Shriners for the

11:47:34 burn unit.

11:47:36 Once that changed, it opened up Pandora's box.

11:47:40 What I see here might be a step in the right direction.

11:47:43 However, if I read it right, the red lines are the ones

11:47:46 you are going to interstate ramps and so forth.

11:47:49 But the interior streets, in my estimation, you are

11:47:52 going to get the problem that's probably there now, and

11:47:56 further drive it into the neighborhood so that the

11:47:58 collector roads and the arterial roads.

11:48:01 That's what I see here.

11:48:04 I understand Ms. Dorzback may or may not have the

11:48:10 traffic counts for the city but they are very close.

11:48:12 Some roads carry 32,000 or 38,000 cars a day.




11:48:17 During certain peak hours they do lesser hours like on

11:48:22 Saturdays and Sundays, they may carry 20 or less.

11:48:25 So what I am saying is, with some effort, we can come

11:48:29 up and work this system so that those individual don't

11:48:33 lose their jobs and make one hundred, about 100 a day

11:48:37 and use that money for food to put on their table, and

11:48:42 at the same time have this ordinance crafted so it

11:48:46 meets the obligatory of the state statute, and we do

11:48:50 not have to fight in court.

11:48:52 If that's done, I think we can solve some of these

11:48:55 problems, if not all of them.

11:48:56 But to just say partial ban or no ban, it hurts a lot

11:49:01 of people.

11:49:01 It hurts the people that are sick with muscular

11:49:05 dystrophy.

11:49:05 It hurts the people that are the children's burn unit

11:49:09 that go absolutely free to all these hospitals from the

11:49:12 good Shriners, and it hurts the community's image it

11:49:17 knoll willing to help out and lend a hand.

11:49:18 So what I'm saying is, it takes a lot to build a

11:49:22 community.

11:49:23 It takes a few mistakes to ruin one.




11:49:25 And I am not buying.

11:49:28 I see it all the time.

11:49:30 We have a problem.

11:49:31 We are not addressing how to solve it.

11:49:33 We are addressing how to get rid of it.

11:49:36 And, yeah, you can get rid of a lot of things.

11:49:38 But if you work closely -- and I have asked you months

11:49:41 ago on a regular basis -- I don't meet with you every

11:49:45 week -- to get this thing, the figures done.

11:49:48 You said it takes a year to get those figures.

11:49:50 I guarantee you the state has figures on these main

11:49:53 roads, interstate roads and the roads coming off the

11:49:56 interstate.

11:49:57 They have to have them according to law.

11:49:59 We can grab those numbers and we can change this thing

11:50:02 in a matter of months and get this problem resolved.

11:50:06 I don't like it as much as anybody else.

11:50:09 But you know what?

11:50:11 Somebody has got to lend somebody a hand.

11:50:14 We can't house them.

11:50:16 A memo I read from you, we don't have the fortitude or

11:50:19 the money to do it, I should say.




11:50:21 And we don't have the means of continuing this.

11:50:27 It does set a bad image.

11:50:29 But this image is not only Tampa, Florida's image.

11:50:33 It's an image throughout this country that is correct

11:50:35 we close our eyes and say we have a 12% unemployment

11:50:38 where it's really 20.

11:50:41 Five that are taking jobs a third of what they were

11:50:43 making before and five that quit looking. Add that to

11:50:48 the 12% and see what you get. So we have been lying to

11:50:50 ourselves, not us, not you, but the whole system is not

11:50:54 telling the truth and it has to be ratified, it has to

11:50:57 be corrected in a mannerism where we can live as a

11:51:00 city, vibrantly, go forward, and solve this problem

11:51:04 once and for all.

11:51:05 When you look at this problem, no one is telling me how

11:51:08 many people are sleeping on the streets.

11:51:11 And they are.

11:51:13 Right on Florida Avenue they are.

11:51:15 No one is saying that.

11:51:16 So what are we solving?

11:51:19 We take them from where they are at.

11:51:22 They sleep in the streets.




11:51:23 What happens?

11:51:24 They are human beings.

11:51:25 Do they vote?

11:51:26 Absolutely not.

11:51:27 This is no political plus for me to say that.

11:51:29 They do not vote.

11:51:32 And the public wants them off the street.

11:51:33 And I understand that.

11:51:34 But in the meantime, I want to support something that's

11:51:37 workable, that takes a human being and gives that human

11:51:40 being the rights that all of us have.

11:51:43 And that's my take to this thing.

11:51:46 I want to solve this problem.

11:51:48 I don't want to just hide it somewhere for a little

11:51:50 while till after the election.

11:51:51 Thank you.

11:51:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Miller then Councilwoman

11:51:59 Miller.

11:52:00 >>MARY MULHERN: This is a very complicated problem and

11:52:07 it's very difficult, and councilman Miranda, I think,

11:52:11 speaks for all of us and that we have been trying to be

11:52:16 humane and to pay attention to people's right to free




11:52:20 speech, and under a lot of pressure, as much from the

11:52:28 media who I would like to take note that City Council

11:52:32 got all of this data yesterday afternoon.

11:52:40 I don't know if anybody else got it but this is some of

11:52:42 the reports that the committee, the task force, that

11:52:45 the county convened to talk about street solicitation.

11:52:49 This is just some of the information that they have had

11:52:52 and gathered that we have not been privy to.

11:52:56 So we have been trying to take a very, very reasoned

11:53:00 approach to this.

11:53:03 I have been hearing more and more lately from people

11:53:08 from across the city, how they feel threatened by

11:53:13 street solicitors, and I'm hearing it in my own house,

11:53:19 from my friend, from my neighbors.

11:53:23 But way haven't heard as City Council person until

11:53:26 today -- and I am going to ask major Bennett to be even

11:53:29 more -- give us even more direction on this -- that we

11:53:37 don't want to tell people that they cannot ask for

11:53:40 help.

11:53:40 And the only way that we are going to be able to do

11:53:44 that is if we are convinced that this is really a

11:53:48 public safety hazard on the roadways.




11:53:52 So if we are hearing that from our police department,

11:53:55 we are hearing that from our transportation department,

11:53:58 and we are hearing from our legal department that we

11:54:06 can do some additional ban on that.

11:54:09 That's the only way we are going to be able to do

11:54:11 anything going forward.

11:54:12 But, you know, I also think that the county is getting

11:54:16 ready to make some recommendations about what the

11:54:20 county should do.

11:54:22 And they are probably going to do that before March

11:54:25 1st.

11:54:26 So for the city to do something today or next week

11:54:31 means we may be adopting something that is not going to

11:54:35 be the same as what the county is doing.

11:54:37 And that doesn't really make sense to me either.

11:54:42 I guess what I would also like to hear from TPD, if

11:54:45 this is a public safety problem, how urgent is it?

11:54:50 I mean, I understand, and I think it's true that if

11:54:55 there are more and more people in the roadways, there

11:54:59 probably is an increased possibility that there are

11:55:03 going to be accidents.

11:55:04 But if it's not happening right now, can we be




11:55:09 methodical?

11:55:10 Can we be responsible about this and adopt something

11:55:13 that after we have been able to coordinate with other

11:55:18 people?

11:55:19 I'm just going to finish so hopefully I don't have to

11:55:21 talk anymore and then I'll ask you to come up and

11:55:24 address that.

11:55:25 But we also have to figure out what we can do about the

11:55:33 underlying problem and the underlying problem is the

11:55:38 economy is unemployment, is homelessness, is the fact

11:55:44 that there are services for a lot of people.

11:55:50 And we also need to know, you know, the fact is if we

11:56:00 have solicitation on our roadways in the City of Tampa,

11:56:04 then where do they go?

11:56:06 They go to Brandon, they go to Orlando, they go to

11:56:08 Lakeland.

11:56:09 So it's difficult for me -- and I know for my

11:56:14 colleagues, to push through for some kind of solution.

11:56:22 It's the appearance of doing something as opposed to

11:56:24 actually really doing something that will have real

11:56:28 effect on our public safety and not to mention

11:56:35 protecting everyone's rights to be citizens and to, you




11:56:42 know, to go where they want and to express themselves.

11:56:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: A comment about the public safety and

11:56:53 then councilman Caetano, then councilman Stokes.

11:56:57 >>> Thank you for inviting me back up.

11:57:00 When I gave the crash data, I have to use analogy in

11:57:04 the crime reduction plan.

11:57:05 Over the last eight years, we are defending 1900 crimes

11:57:09 every month of what used to be here eight years ago,

11:57:13 and that takes a lot of preventive work, and it's the

11:57:16 same philosophy that we bring to anything that we look

11:57:18 at as a prevention model, not a reactive one, and our

11:57:23 concern is if we are handling three calls a day in the

11:57:26 intersections and we are making an arrest a day, that

11:57:29 is increasing the risk.

11:57:30 And whatever we gauge our risk meter on, whether it's

11:57:33 by road or time of day or anything else, anything from

11:57:36 zero up is increasing that risk and opportunity.

11:57:39 And I would like to just read a real quick excerpt of a

11:57:42 report where an arrest was made on December 5th on

11:57:46 this exact topic.

11:57:48 An officer on his way to a call and he saw a group of

11:57:51 solicitors working in the area of Busch as a group and




11:57:58 he saw what he thought was an ankle monitor on one of

11:58:02 the individual so he asked an officer to come by and do

11:58:04 some surveillance which he had to continue on his call

11:58:08 which is a higher priority and that's what we request

11:58:10 our officers to do.

11:58:11 After the intersection was monitored and they saw the

11:58:14 solicitor working -- this is a Sunday, by the way, so

11:58:16 we are talking on a weak end day -- after he came in

11:58:21 contact with the subject with the ankle bracelet --

11:58:26 ankle bracelet, he was handcuffed and searched with

11:58:30 negative results, and this is a violation of probation

11:58:33 on a sexual predator that was working that

11:58:35 intersection, and that we have hand full, we have about

11:58:41 269 interactions out of those 274 calls over those 100

11:58:45 days.

11:58:45 We have a decent list of criminal histories, people

11:58:50 that heir wanted that maybe another city wouldn't

11:58:53 extradite but there's criminal background in this

11:58:57 situation.

11:59:03 So that goes beyond the crash data safety, and our

11:59:06 position has been, one burglary to me is a crime

11:59:10 pattern.




11:59:10 In the past it used to be a dozen.

11:59:12 So we respond to a burglary so one fatality can -- we

11:59:16 broke even in fatalities last year which we consider

11:59:20 breaking even is breaking even.

11:59:22 And when we look at those numbers, we are a data-driven

11:59:25 department.

11:59:26 We use data to analyze our resources.

11:59:28 We map -- we have been doing this for years.

11:59:30 We look at the top 40 intersections and allocate our

11:59:34 resources.

11:59:35 That's how the crash fatalities went down.

11:59:38 That's how pedestrian crashes went down.

11:59:39 Education and enforcement.

11:59:41 So it's our position if you put somebody in the

11:59:42 intersection that's untrained and ungoverned by the way

11:59:45 the intersection is designed, we just increase that

11:59:47 risk, no matter what the rate is, and that's our job to

11:59:52 be public safety experts and that's why we bring such a

11:59:55 strong position in public safety.

11:59:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Fletcher, would you come up,

11:59:59 please?

12:00:01 Did you make a statement we are going to look into a




12:00:04 partial ban?

12:00:06 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Well, that partial ban, I think,

12:00:08 is what is what Chairman Scott brought up, it's a ban

12:00:12 only on arterial roads and the interstates, not on the

12:00:21 collector roads. That's the difference between this

12:00:21 proposal than what was before you previously.

12:00:22 If you like, I can have Ms. Dorzback explain in more

12:00:30 detail the difference between those two roadways and

12:00:30 why there's a distinction there.

12:00:32 But that's the concept that's before you as a partial

12:00:35 ban.

12:00:35 >>GWEN MILLER: That's not what you explained to the

12:00:38 community because I got a call from them and they are

12:00:43 asking me what a partial ban is. I want you to say it

12:00:44 so they will know what it is.

12:00:45 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Okay.

12:00:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you want to explain it?

12:00:50 >> Partial ban means we are banning only on the larger

12:00:54 high volume roads which are the arterials, the

12:00:57 interstate and the ramps for the interstates.

12:01:01 Transportation Department has generated a map, but

12:01:05 basically the arterials are the largest roadways within




12:01:08 the city, so Dale Mabry, Hillsborough, Fletcher,

12:01:14 Fowler, Gandy, those larger roads with the high rate of

12:01:19 travel, high volume of traffic, and often have the

12:01:23 medians as well that we have had as issues.

12:01:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilman Caetano, Stokes, Miranda.

12:01:33 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I understand if you are in a

12:01:37 collector road that you cannot be within 30 feet --

12:01:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Turn the mike on.

12:01:42 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: -- of an arterial?

12:01:46 >> That's right.

12:01:46 What we found is arterial and intersections to an

12:01:50 arterial, and working with the Transportation

12:01:50 Department, the 30-foot distance was identified as a

12:01:55 common distance used to identify proximity to the

12:01:59 arterial. And that's to prevent interactions with

12:02:03 motorists that are essentially part of the flow on the

12:02:06 arterial and still at risk from the traffic flow on the

12:02:10 arterial.

12:02:10 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I could identify six spots.

12:02:13 One on Cross Creek.

12:02:15 Another one in New Tampa Boulevard.

12:02:17 One at Grand Hampton off of County Line Road.




12:02:20 Another one at Palm Lake which goes into Commerce Park

12:02:23 Boulevard.

12:02:25 You are going to have somebody standing at the exit of

12:02:28 a Publix or the entrance of a Publix soliciting.

12:02:34 I want a total ban, because St. Pete did it.

12:02:38 Do they sell newspapers in St. Petersburg?

12:02:43 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I assume so.

12:02:44 I can't answer that question.

12:02:45 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Anybody on your staff have that

12:02:49 answer?

12:02:50 >> I think it's safe to assume they still sell

12:02:53 newspapers in St. Petersburg.

12:02:54 That's correct.

12:02:54 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I have six locations that are on

12:02:57 collector roads, and you are going to have people

12:02:59 standing at the exit of a Publix soliciting.

12:03:02 I don't know how many people go into that shopping

12:03:04 center in one day.

12:03:06 There's two of them up there.

12:03:07 And one is on Cross Creek and the other is New Tampa

12:03:10 Boulevard.

12:03:10 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: And under those proposal all those




12:03:16 road are identified as collectors.

12:03:18 Under this proposal the activity, selling of a

12:03:20 newspaper, solicitation would still be permitted on

12:03:23 those roadways.

12:03:25 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Okay.

12:03:25 Thank you.

12:03:29 >>CURTIS STOKES: Thank you, Mr. Fletcher.

12:03:31 Mr. Fletcher, if we did a partial ban and limit it to

12:03:36 the arterial roads, the large collector roads,

12:03:40 large-volume roads, is there a mechanism that we could

12:03:44 not ban but regulate on some of the collector roads?

12:03:47 For instance, if we in the medians, if we restrict the

12:03:51 person from weaving in and out of traffic,s as talked

12:03:57 about earlier, where the person walks up to the vehicle

12:03:59 and sticks his or her hand in the car, is there a way

12:04:03 we can we could do that?

12:04:07 >> Yes.

12:04:07 Frankly, the weaving in and out of traffic I'm not sure

12:04:11 is permitted now, and that's one of the issues we have

12:04:13 is compliance with the standards that we have.

12:04:16 But we certainly can work at tightening up those

12:04:19 restrictions based on comments that we have received.




12:04:23 >> Is it possible to amend the previous ordinance that

12:04:27 limits a person from approaching a vehicle, not

12:04:31 approaching a vehicle until they are summoned?

12:04:34 For instance, out selling a newspaper, I can't approach

12:04:39 a vehicle until --

12:04:44 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: There's not a case that would

12:04:46 prohibit that.

12:04:46 There is an enforceability issue that we would have to

12:04:49 work on which would be defining what does it mean to be

12:04:52 summoned, so to speak.

12:04:53 But, yes, we could draft language that would address

12:04:56 that issue.

12:05:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, chief Bennett.

12:05:03 You are doing a fantastic job, all your officers, male

12:05:05 and female are out in the street doing what they are

12:05:07 supposed to do.

12:05:08 You mentioned that there is about three calls a day for

12:05:11 intersection, about one arrest, and I commend you for

12:05:14 enforcing the ordinance that we have in the books

12:05:15 today.

12:05:16 However, when you said that, it came to mind about

12:05:19 accidents and health and safety and welfare of the




12:05:21 citizens.

12:05:22 And I thought to myself, I wonder how many accidents

12:05:25 are created by cell phone users and text erstwhile they

12:05:28 are driving.

12:05:29 Do you have an answer for that, sir?

12:05:35 >> No, I don't.

12:05:37 We look at that as careless driving.

12:05:39 And that's one of the things that I did mention in the

12:05:41 opening comments about when you approach an

12:05:44 intersection there's so many things to concentrate on,

12:05:47 the light, the crosswalk.

12:05:49 And so we don't want any distractions, whether it be

12:05:51 somebody -- whether you are receiving a hawk item or

12:05:55 not or you have to navigate around a pedestrian outside

12:05:58 a crosswalk, as well as we don't want you to doing

12:06:02 anything in your car.

12:06:03 We want you to focus on all the safety points of the

12:06:04 intersection.

12:06:05 >> I understand that.

12:06:06 In your report there is no calculation to find out why

12:06:08 the accident happened, whether it was cell phone

12:06:10 relating or texting related?




12:06:12 >> Typically what happens in that case is you have a

12:06:15 following too closely or careless driving, and it's

12:06:18 very rare that it comes out that they were doing

12:06:21 something as specific as a cell phone or looking at

12:06:25 their radio.

12:06:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I saw a billboard that said he or

12:06:29 she was texting and driving at the same time.

12:06:31 It was an attorney billboard that was sponsored.

12:06:34 I said, well, they must have some statistics.

12:06:36 >> There are some policies out in the corporate world

12:06:39 and even government to prohibit it.

12:06:41 But as far as legislative --

12:06:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much, sir.

12:06:45 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you, chairman.

12:06:48 In regards to total ban, and a lot of what I feel has

12:06:54 been echoed here today, and someone brought up if you

12:07:02 are summoned, and the other one was where do these

12:07:06 people live, I drive the corner of Manhattan Avenue and

12:07:10 Gandy Boulevard.

12:07:12 There is a gas station there that's been renovated

12:07:14 for -- it got to be close to six or more months.

12:07:21 At one point it seems to have been cleared up.




12:07:23 I don't know.

12:07:24 At least six to eight people living, staying in that,

12:07:30 outside of the gas station.

12:07:31 I saw a woman solicit a man that was in the median, and

12:07:37 I'm in two turning lanes.

12:07:39 She's on the lane to GOP straight.

12:07:41 She solicited him to come over.

12:07:43 When he came over, she handed him a cigarette.

12:07:49 So, again, waiting for them to come over, or asking

12:07:58 them to come over is evening dangering them also.

12:08:05 I feel that we have -- when we call these people

12:08:11 panhandlers, or beggars, when you label human beings,

12:08:18 you take away the human part of it.

12:08:24 We are all dealing with human beings who sell

12:08:28 newspapers, who solicit for charities, who are asking

12:08:33 for ALMS, whatever it is.

12:08:36 But when you label people, you take away the human

12:08:40 part.

12:08:43 Everyone in here, everyone, they are human beings.

12:08:46 And we have to deal with this problem, again, in a

12:08:53 strong and decent way.

12:08:56 That's it.




12:08:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The last one is Councilwoman Mulhern.

12:08:59 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a question for Leo.

12:09:07 And I have been wondering why back when we voted to

12:09:12 allow or require the vests, can we just ban any

12:09:19 contained of solicitation on the medians?

12:09:28 In all medians?

12:09:29 Why can't we ban that?

12:09:32 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: From a public safety standpoint,

12:09:34 the medians are different from the sides of the road

12:09:37 and our transportation and public safety staff opinion,

12:09:40 then we could probably do that.

12:09:41 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm just wondering as part of this, it

12:09:49 wouldn't necessarily prevent the newspaper vendors or

12:09:51 the -- if we did just the medians or the charities from

12:09:58 collecting on the side, you know, on the side of the

12:10:03 road as opposed to in the median.

12:10:06 I don't know.

12:10:09 It's just a thought.

12:10:10 I don't know if that's the best solution, if we want to

12:10:13 go in that direction.

12:10:14 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: The analysis we have to go through

12:10:18 as a body is whether there's a public benefit safety to




12:10:22 that restriction, and as we did with when we did with

12:10:25 the original origin, the vests, public safety oriented

12:10:29 and we have to get them --

12:10:31 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.

12:10:32 I would like to make a motion that we investigate

12:10:34 banning solicitation on the medians.

12:10:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.

12:10:37 That would compromise some of this stuff here, with the

12:10:42 people there no into the neighborhoods.

12:10:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, let me speak to that from this

12:10:49 standpoint.

12:10:50 If you go back again, I think we had the discussion,

12:10:52 what has been our experience on a partial ban, that

12:10:54 they do not move into the neighborhoods.

12:10:56 Can you speak to that?

12:10:58 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Well, what the experience has been

12:11:04 in St. Petersburg is folks when they understand what

12:11:05 the rules are, they comply with the rules.

12:11:08 And so the expectation would be that we do not have

12:11:14 migration into other areas, but that we reduce the

12:11:17 activity at the roadways

12:11:22 This is somewhat different than that approach, so I




12:11:25 can't say based on data or any certainty exactly what

12:11:29 will happen.

12:11:30 But that is the expectation based on what's been seen

12:11:33 in St. Petersburg.

12:11:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Secondly, our current ordinance now

12:11:39 prohibits any movement into the roadway when traffic is

12:11:44 moving.

12:11:45 Is that right?

12:11:46 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: That's absolutely correct.

12:11:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And that has not been enforced or not

12:11:51 been a bid by as well.

12:11:53 Now, I will tell you all, I don't think anybody is more

12:11:56 compassionate than I am on this board.

12:11:58 I see this all the time because they are knocking at my

12:12:00 church doors as well.

12:12:01 But I will tell you from my experience of seeing just

12:12:05 last week, you have a mother, I guess, with a baby out,

12:12:13 not in the median but on the side.

12:12:19 I mean, in my opinion it's very dangerous.

12:12:20 Or as cold as it was, the week before last, out with a

12:12:22 baby.

12:12:27 Some of it I saw right there on 22nd and Hillsborough,




12:12:29 I was at Popeyes last Sunday a week ago, and the lady

12:12:33 was in the median with newspapers and the wind blew all

12:12:36 her newspapers into the street.

12:12:37 And she was trying to get her newspapers, and traffic

12:12:41 was moving.

12:12:44 You know, there are all kind of examples that wave

12:12:47 here.

12:12:48 My concern at this point is, according to this motion,

12:12:51 that we are asking for a study.

12:12:53 Is that right?

12:12:55 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Mr. Chairman, what I would suggest

12:12:57 is if there is interest in some of the council members

12:13:00 in having some of these other tightening of the

12:13:02 ordinance, is that we treat them separately.

12:13:05 One is whether we are going to have a ban on the

12:13:07 arterials, and the interstate, and the ramps, and then

12:13:11 we look at tightening up those restrictions for the

12:13:15 collectors and deal with these other issues for just

12:13:18 the collector roads.

12:13:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So the motion on the floor now is

12:13:22 basically how you tighten up.

12:13:24 Then I guess the --




12:13:30 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: The rules -- where we tighten up

12:13:33 the rules where solicitation is permitted.

12:13:35 >>GWEN MILLER: My question, too, on the motion, you

12:13:37 say move them from the median.

12:13:40 Are you going to move them out of the median?

12:13:43 Because you are moving from the median going to the

12:13:45 sidewalks.

12:13:46 And you are still going to have panhandlers and

12:13:49 everybody else on the sidewalks.

12:13:51 You can step off a sidewalk, and a car coming, then you

12:13:54 come in the median.

12:13:55 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: That's why I suggested what we

12:13:59 would have to do is take these ideas, run them through

12:14:02 analysis as to the safety of the activity and whether

12:14:05 it would be a net improvement, and then get back to you

12:14:08 all on those issues.

12:14:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So more or less take a look at those.

12:14:13 But a motion still could be in order for the partial

12:14:17 solicitation, is that right?

12:14:19 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: For the partial solicitation ban

12:14:21 in the ordinance that's been provided to council.

12:14:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So the motion on the floor then --




12:14:27 yes?

12:14:27 The motion on the floor is to have legal take a look at

12:14:30 the ban of solicitation in the median.

12:14:33 That's as I understand.

12:14:35 Correct?

12:14:35 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.

12:14:36 And I don't know what the partial ban, that they could

12:14:42 look at it in addition to that, or a separate thing

12:14:46 just to look at it.

12:14:48 I'm not saying to do that instead of looking at your

12:14:51 ordinance that you are proposing.

12:14:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So there's a motion on the floor.

12:14:56 All those in favor signify by saying Aye.

12:14:58 Opposes?

12:15:00 Okay.

12:15:01 Then we will still entertain a motion on the partial

12:15:10 ban of arterials at the same time while you are all

12:15:12 doing this other study.

12:15:13 Is that correct?

12:15:14 As well at any time council could bring this back an

12:15:17 amend it anyway it desires.

12:15:18 Is that accurate as well?




12:15:20 >> That's correct.

12:15:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So I will just release the gavel and

12:15:24 then make a motion.

12:15:26 An ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida amending the

12:15:28 City of Tampa code of ordinances chapter 25

12:15:30 transportation amending section 25-173 public safety

12:15:35 requirements for solicitation business or contributors,

12:15:38 contributions from within street right-of-way,

12:15:41 providing for severability, repealing all ordinances or

12:15:44 parts of ordinances in conflict therewith, providing an

12:15:47 effective date.

12:15:48 Is that the correct ordinance?

12:15:50 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Yes, Mr. Chairman.

12:15:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Do we have a second?

12:15:56 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Second.

12:15:56 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.

12:15:58 Question on the motion?

12:16:00 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Question on the motion.

12:16:02 I have six areas which are very heavily traveled in

12:16:06 shopping centers.

12:16:08 I want those roads to be included.

12:16:10 New Tampa Boulevard, Cross Creek Boulevard, Commerce




12:16:13 Park Boulevard.

12:16:14 It's not fair for the people who live in that area.

12:16:17 Grand Hampton.

12:16:18 You are going to have panhandlers at the entrance of

12:16:21 Grand Hampton.

12:16:22 When people are coming out of there and the traffic is

12:16:26 very heavy, there are no streetlights up there either.

12:16:29 It's very dangerous.

12:16:31 I want those roads included.

12:16:32 >> Madam Chairman, thank you.

12:16:41 Because of the free speech issue involved here, we

12:16:45 can't just pick certain roads.

12:16:48 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: But we are doing that.

12:16:49 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: No, what is before you is a

12:16:51 recommendation to ban street solicitation on those

12:16:55 roadways that meet certain technical standard, and by

12:16:59 definition, we are calling them arterial roads, and

12:17:02 those are roads that meet certain design and functional

12:17:05 standards, and so what we can't do is then say, well,

12:17:09 we want the high-volume roads, and in addition to that

12:17:12 we want these other roads that don't meet that

12:17:15 standard.




12:17:15 >> What's considered a high volume?

12:17:18 You have USAA that has 1,000 employees.

12:17:22 You have two schools there on Commerce Park Boulevard.

12:17:24 And you have a major office park.

12:17:26 I don't know how many people are in that office park.

12:17:29 It's not fair that we are not going to include those.

12:17:32 Put them as arterial roads.

12:17:34 >>> Mr. Caetano, there is a standard that is followed.

12:17:41 It's the federal highway open boundary and federal

12:17:44 classification handbook.

12:17:47 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Are those streets listed that I

12:17:49 mention?

12:17:50 Are they in that report?

12:17:51 >>> The streets are collector roadways.

12:17:54 >> I understand.

12:17:56 Are they in that report?

12:17:57 >>> The if the report you are referring to is the

12:18:00 ordinance that has the map as an attachment.

12:18:03 My understanding is the map is just the arterials and

12:18:05 the interstate ramps.

12:18:07 >> How old is that report?

12:18:11 >>JEAN DORZBACK: It's from 2003.




12:18:13 But this isn't necessarily a report.

12:18:15 This is a federal highway handbook.

12:18:18 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I understand that.

12:18:19 >>JEAN DORZBACK: That follows national criteria and

12:18:22 standards that establish functional classification of a

12:18:26 roadway which would either be an arterial, a collector

12:18:30 or a local roadway.

12:18:32 So this is not arbitrary criteria or naming that we

12:18:36 come up with.

12:18:36 We follow a national standard.

12:18:38 And under that national guideline, the roads that you

12:18:41 are interested in fall within what's called the

12:18:44 collector category.

12:18:46 And under this current proposal, you are considering

12:18:51 just choosing the arterials and the interstates for

12:18:54 your partial ban.

12:18:55 So what Mr. Fletcher was saying is, you can't pick a

12:18:59 partial selection of collector roads.

12:19:02 You either have to have all the collector roads in your

12:19:05 ordinance, or none of them.

12:19:07 Not just a handful of them based on a personal

12:19:10 preference or vote of a board.




12:19:13 And the determination of whether a road is a collector

12:19:15 or arterial is based on a national criteria that the

12:19:19 City of Tampa follows as well as every other county and

12:19:22 municipality in the United States.

12:19:26 So for how we are picking what is a collector versus

12:19:29 arterial.

12:19:30 >> The criteria is '03.

12:19:33 We are in 011.

12:19:35 It's eight years old course.

12:19:37 >>JEAN DORZBACK: No, the criteria is not eight years

12:19:40 old.

12:19:40 The updating of the map is from 2004.

12:19:44 Because the map is updated based on a cycle of the

12:19:48 census data.

12:19:49 We are currently in the process of working with the

12:19:52 D.O.T. and the MPO to update the current -- it will

12:20:00 include some additional roads and delete some roads

12:20:01 that are no longer in service.

12:20:03 But the bottom line is the determination of the

12:20:06 function of these roads is based on this national

12:20:10 criteria of the federal highway administration.

12:20:14 And that is current criteria.




12:20:16 It's a current document and policy that follows

12:20:21 nationally.

12:20:22 >> You just said that report was '03.

12:20:24 >> This particular printout that I'm showing you, the

12:20:27 handbook is dated 2003.

12:20:29 I'm sorry if I misspoke.

12:20:31 But the criteria that we follow is current.

12:20:37 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Does it I had if I the streets by

12:20:39 name?

12:20:42 >>JEAN DORZBACK: This is a national criteria.

12:20:44 The map that would show the Tampa, City of Tampa

12:20:47 streets, I have with me, and it is approved by the MPO

12:20:51 board every ten years, and there's an opportunity

12:20:55 through this national process to do intermittent up J

12:21:01 dates so that roads can be added between the census

12:21:03 data time line.

12:21:04 I have that particular map with me right here which I

12:21:08 can share with you.

12:21:11 This is what's approved by the MPO board.

12:21:14 An it was last approved in 2004, and Mr. Sean Harrison

12:21:19 happened to be the chair at that time.

12:21:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Can I help?




12:21:26 Is there a possibility that you can look at the streets

12:21:28 or roads he named, to come back between next reading?

12:21:32 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Mr. Chairman, we can look at those

12:21:34 roads.

12:21:34 But what is before you is a proposal.

12:21:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I understand.

12:21:39 I understand.

12:21:39 I'm just trying to help him.

12:21:43 I'm trying to get a vote.

12:21:44 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: We would be happy to look at that.

12:21:49 But I don't want to give a false hope that it's likely

12:21:52 to change.

12:21:54 But we can make sure that the data is current, and its

12:21:57 current evaluation based on the national standard that

12:21:59 are presently in effect.

12:22:00 We can do that.

12:22:01 >>GWEN MILLER: We have to death vote.

12:22:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to speak on that motion.

12:22:07 Because you can't change and add collector roads unless

12:22:11 you add all collector road to the ordinance.

12:22:15 You can't pick and choose what you want.

12:22:16 What I'm looking at, Manhattan would be allowed, Bay to




12:22:19 Bay would be allowable, Bayshore, Sligh Avenue, Busch

12:22:25 Boulevard would be allowable, Waters Avenue.

12:22:27 From this map here, these are collector roads.

12:22:30 Or arterial collector roads.

12:22:31 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Mr. Chairman, the basic question

12:22:35 that we have to have all arterials in a cat goer and

12:22:41 all the collectors, if we are going to have this

12:22:42 partial ban, all the collectors not banned, you don't

12:22:45 read -- councilman read them off.

12:22:50 >> What does the red mean, yes or no?

12:22:53 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: The reds are the interstates.

12:22:54 The dark black are the arterials.

12:22:57 So a number of the roads that you mentioned would be

12:22:59 banned.

12:23:01 And those arterials, Hillsborough, Martin Luther King,

12:23:05 portions of Sligh, Bausch, Fowler, Fletcher, Dale Mabry

12:23:15 134 so the partial is a full ban in essence.

12:23:20 >> Full ban in --

12:23:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No, no, answer the question.

12:23:23 In your opinion is it a partial or full ban?

12:23:26 Unless you put an alley in here where you can do it?

12:23:30 >> It's a partial ban in that it's a full ban on the




12:23:33 arterial roadways.

12:23:35 It allows solicitation on the collector roadways and

12:23:39 the neighborhood roadways.

12:23:40 >> But in sees essence, when do you that you have a

12:23:43 full ban, because no one travels alleys.

12:23:52 I can see the map.

12:23:52 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: For instance, councilman,

12:23:55 downtown, solicitation is permitted on the streets

12:24:00 downtown.

12:24:00 Most of the streets downtown are collector roadways.

12:24:02 >> So arterial road are mainly in downtown, also,

12:24:09 Florida Avenue, all these roads are --

12:24:16 >> In downtown the arterial roadways could be Kennedy,

12:24:19 Florida, and Ashley.

12:24:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You can do Cass Anand Zack.

12:24:28 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Yes.

12:24:34 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If there are no other questions of

12:24:36 council, the motion on the floor can is to move this

12:24:39 ordinance for first reading consideration.

12:24:41 It was read by title.

12:24:44 Two points I would like to make.

12:24:46 Number one is that if this motion does go forward, what




12:24:51 it does is it does move it to second reading and

12:24:53 adoption which would be at a public hearing which would

12:24:56 take place in two weeks on February 3rd at 9:30

12:24:59 a.m.

12:25:00 So it would move to a public hearing.

12:25:02 The second thing I wish to advise council is this is a

12:25:05 legislative matter so there is no ban on ex parte

12:25:08 communications relative to you talking with members of

12:25:10 the public on this.

12:25:11 And I just wish to inform you of that, and to inform

12:25:16 the public that should this move forward, it would be

12:25:19 set for a public hearing before adoption.

12:25:21 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion on the floor.

12:25:24 Are you ready to call for the vote?

12:25:26 All in favor --

12:25:28 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I am going to vote against this.

12:25:29 I want these streets that I mentioned.

12:25:32 >>GWEN MILLER: But they can't be, Mr. Caetano.

12:25:38 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: It's an '03 report.

12:25:42 >>CHAIRMAN: No, no.

12:25:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No.

12:25:43 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I understand that.




12:25:45 But we have 40,000 people living in this area.

12:25:48 It wouldn't be fair to the residents who live in --

12:25:51 >>GWEN MILLER: You have to vote against it then.

12:25:53 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I am voting against it.

12:25:55 I want a total ban.

12:25:56 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion say Aye.

12:25:57 Opposed, nay.

12:25:59 >>THE CLERK: Caetano, no.

12:26:06 Capin, no.

12:26:09 Miller, yes.

12:26:10 Scott, yes.

12:26:11 Miranda, no.

12:26:13 Mulhern, yes.

12:26:14 Stokes, yes.

12:26:16 The motion carried with Caetano, Capin and Miranda

12:26:21 voting no.

12:26:22 Second reading of the ordinance will be held February

12:26:25 3rd at 9:30 a.m.

12:26:27 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Hold it at the convention center

12:26:31 because there's going to be a lot of people here.

12:26:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We stand in recess till 1:30.

12:26:37 Thank you.




12:27:14 (The meeting recessed at 12:27 p.m.)

12:27:21 - - -

13:31:21 [Sounding gavel]

13:33:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tampa City Council will now come to

13:33:51 order.

13:33:52 We'll have roll call.

13:33:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.

13:33:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.

13:34:02 >>CURTIS STOKES: Present.

13:34:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.

13:34:04 Okay.

13:34:05 We are going to continue with our staff reports so we

13:34:07 can get our staff out of here

13:34:10 Item 61.

13:34:12 Item 61.

13:34:15 That is the revenue and finance department to appear

13:34:18 regarding a different way to respond to crashes an

13:34:23 accidents calls for police and fire rescue.

13:34:27 Anyone here on item 61?

13:34:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe the legal department will

13:34:30 be discussing that.

13:34:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.




13:34:32 Item 62.

13:34:33 Item 62.

13:34:35 Item 62.

13:34:36 >> John Barrios, City of Tampa construction services.

13:34:44 A report on item number 62.

13:34:48 My understanding is a question came up regarding the

13:34:50 application to sign code.

13:34:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: One sec second.

13:34:55 Can we get all the lights on?

13:34:57 You are in the dark.

13:34:57 We want you to be in the light.

13:34:59 >> Some say I'm always in the dark.

13:35:04 [ Laughter ]

13:35:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: If we can get all the lights on,

13:35:06 please.

13:35:07 >> Again, we had questions on the signs relative to

13:35:20 existing businesses in existing facility, and wanted to

13:35:24 explain City of Tampa code, chapter 20.5, currently

13:35:30 allows existing business to change the copy or text of

13:35:34 the sign, does not require permit to allow them to do

13:35:37 so.

13:35:38 If the sign is altered, enlarged or relocated, the code




13:35:43 does require permission through my office.

13:35:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The word altered very seems easy to

13:35:55 come up but what does altered mean?

13:35:57 Does it mean changing from a letter size to a bigger

13:36:00 letter size or changing the directional of a certain

13:36:03 portion of the sign to digital?

13:36:05 >>> If the type of sign is changed, that would be an

13:36:09 alteration that would require permission, Mr. Miranda.

13:36:11 Alterations within the outlying of the sign face itself

13:36:16 is perfectly acceptable, is allowed to happen without

13:36:20 permit.

13:36:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: As you are well aware, and I know

13:36:22 you are, there's various things that happen in the city

13:36:24 that's in transition.

13:36:27 Also, different roadways are expanded and you lose the

13:36:31 variation of the sign location due to internal or

13:36:34 external exposure of the sign.

13:36:36 So is there any reactive use so that sign can be

13:36:43 relocated?

13:36:44 There's an expansion of a roadway due to the Department

13:36:48 of Transportation and therefore you cannot meet the

13:36:51 qualifications of the law or the intent of the law




13:36:54 which you had before after that road was expanded?

13:36:57 Is there any adaptive use of that sign without going

13:37:01 from A to Z and spending thousands of dollars?

13:37:04 >> Yes, the code addresses that item, councilman

13:37:06 Miranda.

13:37:07 There we go.

13:37:08 >> It's an extra $50.

13:37:11 >> this is an existing conformance side, you are

13:37:17 allowed to relocate to site.

13:37:20 There's a review of that relocation.

13:37:21 Got to make sure it's relocated to its proper spot with

13:37:26 the code, and those are expedited through our office.

13:37:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

13:37:34 Any other questions relative to item 62?

13:37:38 Sign code?

13:37:45 >>YVONNE CAPIN: If there's multiple businesses on the

13:37:47 same sign, more than 50% could be changed out?

13:37:51 >>> There's no specific percentage, councilwoman.

13:37:55 If you are a business on a particular site, and one of

13:37:58 those types that have multiple listing, you can change

13:38:02 the configuration of that listing.

13:38:04 You can change the copy and the text on that listing.




13:38:06 There's no percent as applied to that.

13:38:09 As long as the sign face itself, and if we don't exceed

13:38:14 the outline, if you will, of the sign, or the perimeter

13:38:16 of the sign itself.

13:38:19 You're allowed to continue and change the copies,

13:38:23 businesses come and go.

13:38:24 >> Can I ask you one more question?

13:38:26 >> Sure.

13:38:28 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Can you do a larger -- like you have

13:38:30 six spaces and someone leaves two spaces so therefore

13:38:35 their signage would be larger, as long as the overall

13:38:38 square footage stays the same?

13:38:40 >> That's correct.

13:38:42 Stay within the outline of what's been permitted for

13:38:44 that particular establishment, then that's allowed.

13:38:48 >> Well, I have a problem because that's not what we

13:38:58 were told.

13:38:58 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.

13:39:00 I understand the discussion came up in the context of

13:39:02 an appeal hearing which you were hearing.

13:39:05 If you want to ask a question related to what was

13:39:07 discussed during that appeal hearing, that was remanded




13:39:11 to address exactly that issue.

13:39:13 I understood it was more of a generalized request as to

13:39:16 how construction services review it is code and has

13:39:23 typically advised the client.

13:39:25 The code is very clear, and code clearly says if got a

13:39:33 sign, conforming or nonconforming, you can change your

13:39:37 copy out for one business, five businesses, 20

13:39:43 businesses, we don't care.

13:39:44 That is not considered an alteration after they come

13:39:51 into compliance where the sign code.

13:39:52 It is not social you even need a permit for.

13:39:54 So generally that is what the code says, and that is

13:39:58 how it's going to apply generally.

13:40:03 If it's applied in a different way in a different

13:40:05 context you need to deal with it within that one

13:40:07 application that I understand was remanded on exactly

13:40:09 that issue for that exact discussion to happen in the

13:40:13 context of that appeal hearing.

13:40:15 P because it was an appeal hearing at a review hearing

13:40:20 we couldn't add that.

13:40:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: What Ms. Cole is saying there's a

13:40:25 very strong potential of that issue coming back to




13:40:27 council in the context of that particular petition, so

13:40:29 I guess the advice would be to not discuss specifics

13:40:33 relative to that.

13:40:34 >>JULIA COLE: What happens on any given petition

13:40:37 that's pending can't be discussed.

13:40:40 This is just a general answer to that general question.

13:40:47 You can ask generally as a matter of theory how it's

13:40:49 handled and I think Mr. Baird has answered that for

13:40:54 you.

13:40:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, I'll try to listen to our

13:41:04 attorney.

13:41:05 But I have some, I really do.

13:41:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, if I may.

13:41:10 You know, this council can write ordinances, can change

13:41:14 ordinances, and can tweak ordinances.

13:41:18 Maybe it's time to review some of these ordinances.

13:41:21 That's my only comment.

13:41:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.

13:41:25 Item 65.

13:41:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Territo is here.

13:41:31 I'm sorry, however you want.

13:41:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me take 65 and then come back to




13:41:34 61.

13:41:37 >>CINDY MILLER: Director growth management development

13:41:39 services.

13:41:39 I have submitted a memo for this item, but if I can

13:41:43 just touch on it.

13:41:44 It was requested that we identify if there's any

13:41:47 property, buildings that the city owns, to be utilized

13:41:50 for homeless individuals or families.

13:41:52 We have not been able to identify anything the city

13:41:55 owns that would be appropriate use for this purpose.

13:41:58 However, way also wanted to mention is that City

13:42:02 Council and the administration over the last really

13:42:04 less than a year has issued over $12.5 million of

13:42:09 grants that we have received through the federal

13:42:13 government that was issued to individual organizations,

13:42:16 not for profits, that can be used for transitional

13:42:19 housing, can be used for operational purposes, and

13:42:22 would also be used for permanent affordable housing.

13:42:25 This is through the MSP neighborhood stabilization

13:42:27 program, community development block grant, other

13:42:30 sources, and these grants will come up again before you

13:42:33 periodically.




13:42:33 So I do want the public to know that the City of Tampa,

13:42:38 the mayor's office, and this council have been involved

13:42:41 in awarding over $12.5 million just really in less than

13:42:45 the last 12 months.

13:42:47 In addition, we also -- there is a group from the

13:42:51 business community that has asked to meet with the

13:42:54 mayor a few weeks ago, and she's meeting with them next

13:42:56 week to talk about some other potential alternatives

13:42:58 for the business community, the county, the city, and

13:43:02 other not for profit and social service organizations.

13:43:04 So hopefully will come together in the future.

13:43:07 So I hope I have given you that information within this

13:43:09 memo.

13:43:11 Thank you.

13:43:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.

13:43:14 So $12.5 million in terms of housing, transitional

13:43:17 housing, affordable housing, which is related to the

13:43:22 neighborhood stabilization program.

13:43:24 >> As well as community development block grant

13:43:26 resources.

13:43:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I guess the question was raised in the

13:43:30 context of the issue relative to the proposed




13:43:38 solicitation on the streets and rights-of-way.

13:43:41 As I recall, because we were discussing this issue last

13:43:44 Thursday evening, and we set a workshop on all of the

13:43:47 different nonprofits, you know, the Metropolitan

13:43:49 Ministries, Salvation Army, the Homeless Coalition,

13:43:56 county, social services department, to address the

13:44:02 issues on these needs and provide more information on

13:44:05 what they are doing and so that these persons are not

13:44:09 just, I guess, banned from solicitation on the streets,

13:44:13 and there's in a solution, but how do we further assist

13:44:17 them.

13:44:17 So what I am hearing you say today is that as of today

13:44:20 that we have awarded $12.5 million in that area.

13:44:24 Is that accurate?

13:44:27 >>CINDY MILLER: That is accurate.

13:44:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Secondly, I guess, is there any

13:44:30 mechanism in place -- and I'm sure there probably is --

13:44:34 how these persons are identified, as well as getting

13:44:37 some type of ID so that we can identify them, know who

13:44:41 they are, and move them into these transitional

13:44:44 residents and move them to these areas?

13:44:49 >>CINDY MILLER: From my understanding of working with




13:44:50 the various charitable and social service

13:44:53 organizations, Metropolitan Ministries assist was that,

13:44:55 Salvation Army assists with that, homeless coalition

13:44:57 assists with that, and that is -- and I believe you are

13:45:01 inviting all of them to the workshop.

13:45:03 So that type of information is certainly available

13:45:05 through the social services as well as others in

13:45:08 obtaining an ID so that those individuals can get the

13:45:10 benefit that they might be entitled to.

13:45:13 >> When I was with the commission, with the social

13:45:17 services department, they would go as far as paying

13:45:21 electric bills and those kind of things, water bills,

13:45:23 you know, to assist, as well as trying to pay -- I

13:45:27 think they also paid rent one time, all of that.

13:45:32 I guess my position is to try to make sure from the

13:45:35 government side that we are not just enacting an

13:45:39 ordinance but also trying to make sure that we are

13:45:41 doing something that's concrete and solid to identify

13:45:45 those who are homeless, those who are out on the street

13:45:47 and how we can get some type of social services help

13:45:50 for them.

13:45:50 >> Absolutely.




13:45:52 And one of the grants that I outline in the memo that's

13:45:54 an attachment is the homeless prevention and recovery

13:45:57 program, which is administered through the homeless

13:45:59 coalition.

13:45:59 I believe that it's $1.4 million.

13:46:02 It's on one of the attachments.

13:46:03 And that is to prevent homelessness, provide some

13:46:08 emergency rental, and the homeless coalition is the

13:46:10 administrator of that with other social service

13:46:12 entities and their partners, and along with the other

13:46:15 organizations we mentioned.

13:46:17 The county has their homeless recovery program, and

13:46:21 from that standpoint they certainly are the

13:46:23 administrator of those funds to be able to address

13:46:25 those.

13:46:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman Mulhern made the motion

13:46:32 about what facilities we have, and you are saying as of

13:46:34 today you all do not have any facilities at least

13:46:37 identified at this particular point?

13:46:40 >>CINDY MILLER: The city does not have been any

13:46:41 buildings that would be really appropriate for this

13:46:43 purpose that are in our inventory.




13:46:45 Those buildings in our inventory are being used for

13:46:48 city activity, and if there are other locations, they

13:46:51 would be more appropriate for office and certainly not,

13:46:55 you know, very small, they would not be appropriate for

13:46:57 housing.

13:47:01 >>CURTIS STOKES: Thank you very much for the update,

13:47:02 Ms. Miller.

13:47:04 Looking through the material, I see that we have given

13:47:07 $1.4 million for homeless prevention to homeless

13:47:10 coalition.

13:47:11 But it seems for emergency shelter grants, that amount

13:47:15 seems a little sparse, $156,000 to Metropolitan

13:47:21 Ministries, spring and Salvation Army.

13:47:23 These are the first lines of defense for those that are

13:47:27 on our streets.

13:47:28 It doesn't seem as if we are giving them the sum of

13:47:33 money needed to at least address the issue.

13:47:36 Because if this ordinance passed on second reading

13:47:39 there's going to be an issue of where do the

13:47:42 individuals go, and what the construction budget 12.5

13:47:45 million.

13:47:46 These projects are at least eight to nine months away




13:47:49 from completion.

13:47:50 >> Councilman, the shelter grants is for operations

13:47:57 money going to these individual.

13:47:58 We as a city, and I think I can speak for my county

13:48:01 colleagues, would love to be able to afford more money,

13:48:04 but we simply don't get additional funds from the

13:48:06 federal government.

13:48:07 We are allocating those funds that we receive from the

13:48:09 federal government for these purposes.

13:48:11 So, therefore, I agree with you, I think that there

13:48:14 should be tremendously more resources, whether it's

13:48:18 coming through the county system or through the federal

13:48:20 government or through private individuals to assist

13:48:23 folks, but we are allocating as much money as we

13:48:26 received.

13:48:26 >> Regarding the overstrained Salvation Army,

13:48:32 Metropolitan Ministries, we are being asked to do more

13:48:35 with less, and it's such a tremendous strain on us.

13:48:40 I think with the amount of money spent for purchase and

13:48:43 rehab.

13:48:44 Is there any way to reallocate some of those fund to

13:48:46 give to some of those agencies be?




13:48:51 >>CINDY MILLER: When it comes to both of those

13:48:52 organizations you mentioned, are very near and dear to

13:48:55 my heart as well.

13:48:56 When it comes to the housing dollars that we have

13:48:58 allocated for the rehabilitation of multifamily, that

13:49:01 must be used for permanent affordable rental.

13:49:03 It cannot be used for transitional or emergency

13:49:06 shelter.

13:49:06 Again those the rules that the federal government has

13:49:08 given us.

13:49:09 When there has been housing I can identify through

13:49:13 Metropolitan Ministries-I'm sure you are familiar with

13:49:15 the sanctuary on waters.

13:49:16 The city did participate through, I believe it was,

13:49:20 SHIP funds at the time from the state and did

13:49:23 participate in the construction of those apartments

13:49:25 with Metropolitan Ministries.

13:49:27 The county participated.

13:49:28 And I know they had a number of other in-kind

13:49:31 donations.

13:49:32 So the city when there has been an opportunity and when

13:49:34 an application has come from Metropolitan Ministries or




13:49:36 Salvation Army or other social service centers, we have

13:49:43 authorized to the extent the federal government has

13:49:45 authorized us to.

13:49:47 >>CURTIS STOKES: Thank you very much.

13:49:49 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I got my answer.

13:49:50 Thank you.

13:49:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I asked also because there are things

13:49:56 in place to address some of these, councilman Stokes,

13:50:00 and a lot of it is predicated upon what we have from

13:50:04 the federal government.

13:50:05 So as they come down, then they are further distributed

13:50:08 to the different nonprofit organizations, those and

13:50:12 also in the county, it is quite a bit of resource

13:50:19 because they are the social service agency for the

13:50:23 county as well, and the person overseeing that

13:50:29 particular department requested to come before us in

13:50:31 our workshop.

13:50:32 I recognize the need is great.

13:50:34 But also we have limited resources predicated upon the

13:50:39 federal government.

13:50:47 Also I know Catholic charities is highly involved.

13:50:52 These organizations have evolved into meeting the




13:50:56 needs, social service needs of these persons.

13:51:02 Any other questions?

13:51:03 Okay, thank you.

13:51:06 We go to item 61.

13:51:11 >>SAL TERRITO: Legal department.

13:51:12 You asked us to look at the question of whether we may

13:51:15 charge for first responders to traffic accidents,

13:51:18 police, fire, and fire rescue.

13:51:20 Statute came out in 2009 by the state legislature that

13:51:25 put a pretty good prohibition on what we may or may not

13:51:29 charge for.

13:51:29 That was basically limited to charges for -- charging

13:51:32 for treatment, transport or hazardous waste clean-up.

13:51:36 Having else has been excluded.

13:51:37 Can be for personnel time.

13:51:39 You cannot charge for equipment, motor vehicles, any of

13:51:41 those fees by Florida statute.

13:51:43 We do charge for first responder fees, with respect to

13:51:47 transportation, and medical treatment, and we do charge

13:51:50 if there's a hazardous waste that has to be cleaned up

13:51:53 to meet certain standards.

13:51:55 That's all we are allowed to do.




13:51:57 Under Florida statutes it's pretty restrictive.

13:52:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Chairman, although sometimes you see

13:52:01 parts, automobiles, glass, part of a bumper and all

13:52:04 that, that is covered already by the way the rotation

13:52:08 system, whoever picks up that car in the rotation, is

13:52:11 the one that's supposed to clean up after.

13:52:15 We are not doing that.

13:52:16 And it's our fault that's happening, the city's fault.

13:52:19 That should always be adhered to.

13:52:20 I see it all the time.

13:52:22 It's not being done 100 percent P.we need to improve in

13:52:25 those areas.

13:52:26 So whoever picks up that automobile has got that big

13:52:30 broom to sweep up all the intersections so other cars

13:52:33 don't get flats and so forth.

13:52:35 It looks terrible when you drive by and you see part of

13:52:37 a bumper next to a sidewalk or something of that

13:52:41 nature, and it just doesn't look right to me.

13:52:45 It's our fault that that's happened.

13:52:48 >> The wrecker services are supposed to handle that.

13:52:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other questions?

13:52:59 We move to item 66 which is a resolution made by




13:53:04 Councilwoman Mulhern, seconded by councilman Stokes.

13:53:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I would like to know a little bit

13:53:18 more.

13:53:18 >>GWEN MILLER: The one bay regional vision?

13:53:23 I don't know what that is.

13:53:25 >>CURTIS STOKES: That's the one bay regional vision

13:53:27 plan.

13:53:27 I don't have the backup material.

13:53:28 Councilwoman Mulhern has the backup material.

13:53:31 In essence, it's support of the one day regional vision

13:53:36 plan that encompasses from Sarasota County up to

13:53:41 Hernando ."

13:53:42 It's a vision plan.

13:53:43 I don't have backup material.

13:53:45 I think it's in essence a letter of support for that.

13:53:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That was a motion --

13:53:56 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Councilwoman Mulhern put that on.

13:54:00 If you would like to hold it till she comes back.

13:54:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I would.

13:54:03 Because to see things on television you say look at the

13:54:06 beautiful city of St. Pete, beautiful City of Tampa.

13:54:11 Then you start to see things in the media, well, this




13:54:14 is in Tampa Bay.

13:54:14 And I question myself and I ask myself, if I was to

13:54:17 send a letter to somebody, Tampa Bay, what address and

13:54:21 suite number and what zip code do I use?

13:54:24 There is no such thing.

13:54:25 There is no such city.

13:54:26 There is no such entity.

13:54:28 And you live in a great area, I live in San Francisco

13:54:32 bay or Seattle bay or Miami Beach bay, we are trying to

13:54:37 do a lot of what we have, but we have individual cities

13:54:40 here who have to create their own charisma or success

13:54:47 or not success, and I'm not against success, but

13:54:50 creating something for somebody, I don't know who it

13:54:52 is.

13:54:53 That's the only question, what is it that we are doing?

13:54:57 >>CURTIS STOKES: Here it is.

13:54:57 Section one says support environmentally sustainable

13:55:01 growth, protection of water resources, and

13:55:04 conservation, create jobs, and quality to communities,

13:55:10 support increased -- encourage compact and mixed use

13:55:16 development, encourage preservation of open space and

13:55:20 cultural land.




13:55:22 I think this is a vision that one bay developed about a

13:55:25 year and a half ago and wrote out, by the year 2050, to

13:55:33 create 1.5 million jobs approximately.

13:55:43 We can bring it back up when she arrives.

13:55:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, I just don't know enough about

13:55:48 it.

13:55:49 Creating 1.5 million jobs certainly sound good.

13:55:55 I just don't believe it.

13:55:57 I'll be very honest with you.

13:55:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We can continue the item.

13:56:04 My understanding is Councilwoman Mulhern will not be

13:56:06 back today.

13:56:06 Is that right?

13:56:07 So we'll continue it for two weeks.

13:56:08 Okay?

13:56:10 Motion to that effect, please?

13:56:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.

13:56:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

13:56:15 All in favor?

13:56:16 Opposes?

13:56:18 Then item 67.

13:56:23 We have two more items on this.




13:56:36 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: City clerk.

13:56:38 Before you, you have the updated draft of 2011, City

13:56:44 Council calendar.

13:56:47 What we have is on the first and the third Thursdays,

13:56:51 those have been set aside for regular session.

13:56:54 The second, CRA meeting.

13:56:56 And the fourth Thursday set aside for workshops.

13:57:00 However, I want to pay special attention to March.

13:57:06 We have a meeting, proposed meeting for the 31st of

13:57:12 March.

13:57:14 And I think you may want to look at the 24th,

13:57:19 moving that workshop session.

13:57:21 I'll leave that for you to discuss.

13:57:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: In our agenda review yesterday, I

13:57:26 noted they had scheduled a meeting for the 31st.

13:57:29 Well, your swearing in for the new councilmen is the

13:57:32 first.

13:57:32 We are still here.

13:57:33 And my suggestion is we just meet the 24th, there's

13:57:39 nothing on our workshop day scheduled now.

13:57:41 We are scheduled to have the police Officer of the

13:57:43 Month and then have a regular meeting on the 24th.




13:57:45 And that way on the 31st the new people can be in

13:57:48 offices and be sworn in on the 1st which is the

13:57:51 next day.

13:57:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.

13:57:55 >>CURTIS STOKES: Second.

13:57:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

13:57:56 All in favor?

13:57:57 Opposes?

13:57:59 So now we can take up item 53 and 58 because they were

13:58:06 predicated on that motion.

13:58:08 Is that right?

13:58:08 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 53 is the issue that Councilwoman

13:58:19 Capin brought up concerning alcoholic beverage.

13:58:22 Presently the resolution on number 53 is setting public

13:58:24 hearings the first reading on February 10th at 5:30

13:58:27 at night.

13:58:28 And the second reading on March 3rd, 2011, 9:30

13:58:31 a.m.

13:58:33 And if council member Capin wishes to address that.

13:58:37 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes.

13:58:38 We are having a workshop on this very subject next

13:58:41 week.




13:58:41 And I think that we have time to still do this and work

13:58:51 on this if we move it to March 10 and March 24.

13:58:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Does administration want to speak to

13:59:01 that?

13:59:02 Cathy Coyle, do you want to speak to that?

13:59:05 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.

13:59:07 As until just now, I saw a workshop at the end of March

13:59:11 so I didn't see the extra meeting.

13:59:13 Let me go back.

13:59:14 You have a nature meeting March 10th.

13:59:17 Is that correct?

13:59:17 And now March 24th is a regular session?

13:59:21 So that could be first and second reading?

13:59:23 >> Yes.

13:59:23 >> That would be fine.

13:59:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So we will set it for March 10th?

13:59:30 >>CATHERINE COYLE: March 10th at 5:01.

13:59:35 >>YVONNE CAPIN: First and second reading.

13:59:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Looking at the March 10 calendar, you

13:59:40 have things already set for 5:01 so just set that to

13:59:45 the 5:01 time?

13:59:46 On March 10th.




13:59:48 >>CATHERINE COYLE: That's correct.

13:59:49 >>MARTIN SHELBY: At 9:30 a.m. on March 24th, at

13:59:56 9:30 a.m.

13:59:57 March 4th at 9:30 a.m.

14:00:01 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I move.

14:00:03 >> Second.

14:00:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

14:00:04 All in favor?

14:00:06 Opposes?

14:00:09 Okay.

14:00:09 Item 58.

14:00:14 This was another request by administration to have --

14:00:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, if I can, when this was

14:00:23 originally proposed there was a memorandum requesting

14:00:26 that second reading be set for the workshop.

14:00:29 Now that council has done away with the workshop and

14:00:31 set it for a regular meeting, it would be appropriate

14:00:34 to move the resolution as it is.

14:00:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.

14:00:39 >> Second.

14:00:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?

14:00:42 Opposes?




14:00:45 Okay.

14:00:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Under staff report we have one last

14:00:52 item.

14:00:53 We can come back to that.

14:00:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That's all right.

14:00:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's move to our public hearings.

14:01:03 Second reading item 60.

14:01:11 >>THE CLERK: Could we get a motion to approve the

14:01:13 calendar with the changes that were made?

14:01:16 >> So moved.

14:01:17 >> Second.

14:01:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

14:01:19 Moved by councilman Stokes, seconded by Councilwoman

14:01:22 Capin.

14:01:23 All in favor?

14:01:24 Opposes?

14:01:24 >>THE CLERK: Thank you.

14:01:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Everyone that's going to be speaking,

14:01:30 please stand and be sworn at this time.

14:01:32 If you are going to be speaking today to council,

14:01:34 please stand.

14:01:34 (Oath administered by Clerk)




14:01:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I ask that all written communication

14:01:46 which has been available for public inspection in City

14:01:48 Council's office be received and filed into the record

14:01:50 by motion, please.

14:01:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.

14:01:54 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Second.

14:01:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?

14:01:56 Opposed?

14:01:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, item 69 through 73 are

14:02:00 quasi-judicial.

14:02:01 A quick reminder that if you had any ex parte

14:02:05 communications please disclose them prior to your vote.

14:02:07 There's a sign-up sheet outside, if you are speaking,

14:02:10 make sure your name is on the sign-up sheet and that

14:02:12 you have been sworn.

14:02:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Can we open all these public hearing

14:02:16 items?

14:02:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.

14:02:19 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Second.

14:02:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

14:02:21 All in favor?

14:02:22 It's all of our public hearings forts remaining




14:02:26 afternoon.

14:02:27 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I noticed on the television screen

14:02:29 it said item 58 was the one we were discussing but we

14:02:32 referred to alcohol.

14:02:33 And I just wanted to make sure the right item number

14:02:35 was the one that was moved.

14:02:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 53 and 58 is what was referenced.

14:02:46 >>BARBARA LYNCH: Land Development Coordination.

14:02:49 C-1102 is request to vacate an alley in south Seminole

14:02:53 Heights part of town.

14:02:54 I have a map that shows the specific location.

14:02:56 I want to put it on the overhead.

14:02:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Are we on 60?

14:03:00 This is item 60.

14:03:01 >>BARBARA LYNCH: Oh, I'm sorry, 69.

14:03:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, item 60.

14:03:07 Anyone who wishes to address council on item 60.

14:03:10 Anyone who wishes to address council on item 60.

14:03:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.

14:03:17 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Second.

14:03:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?

14:03:19 Okay.




14:03:19 Councilman Miranda, do you want to read item 60?

14:03:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I knew would you give me the long

14:03:25 one.

14:03:26 Mr. Chairman, move an ordinance presented for second

14:03:28 reading and adoption, an ordinance of the city of

14:03:31 Tampa, Florida making comprehensive revision to the

14:03:33 City of Tampa code of ordinances section 13-91, appeal

14:03:38 methods amending section 17-5-75, administration,

14:03:42 notice, public hearing, decision, amending section

14:03:44 20.5-3, administrative authority, amending section

14:03:48 20.5-23 boards authorized to hear sign related

14:03:52 administrative appeals, amending section 22-39, same,

14:03:56 hearing date, signs, amending section 27-183, variance

14:04:00 administration, notice, decision, stay, denial, appeal,

14:04:03 amending section 27-214, variance, authority,

14:04:07 application, notice, criteria, decision, stay, denial,

14:04:11 appeal, expiration of variance, amending section

14:04:15 27-231.3 local designation of landmarks, landmark

14:04:22 sites, multiple property designation, historic

14:04:25 conservation, overlay districts, historic districts,

14:04:29 amending section 27-231.9, notice, amending section

14:04:34 27-368.1, process for applications for written




14:04:38 determination as formal decisions, amending section

14:04:41 27-372, alternative design exception, amending section

14:04:47 27-373, review, amending section 27-394, public notice

14:04:54 requirements, amending section 27-545, definitions,

14:04:59 repealing all ordinances or parts of ordinances in

14:05:01 conflict therewith, providing for severability,

14:05:04 providing an effective date.

14:05:08 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Second.

14:05:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

14:05:10 Come on with me now.

14:05:12 Moved and seconded.

14:05:13 Record your vote, please.

14:05:27 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern being absent.

14:05:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 69.

14:05:36 Item 69.

14:05:37 Now you are up.

14:05:38 >>BARBARA LYNCH: Land Development Coordination.

14:05:44 This is a request to vacate an alley in the south

14:05:47 Seminole Heights part of Tampa.

14:05:48 And I have a map for the overhead.

14:05:57 The request is to vacate the east-west portion of an

14:06:06 alleyway that from Hilda to Cayuga, and north Highland,




14:06:16 and this is north south, and north-south was not

14:06:19 requested to be closed because it's being used.

14:06:22 So only the area outlined in red is being requested to

14:06:25 be vacated.

14:06:26 I have some photos.

14:06:28 This is a picture of the alleyway looking east from

14:06:31 Highland Avenue.

14:06:33 As you can see.

14:06:37 I have a photo looking west from the north-south

14:06:39 alleyway.

14:06:41 And that's blocked as well.

14:06:43 The next couple photos are the north-south alleys, you

14:06:46 can see those actually being used.

14:06:49 And the same here, the second one.

14:06:54 And this is a continuation of the alleyway on the other

14:06:57 side of Highland.

14:06:58 This is not to be vacated.

14:07:01 And this is the petitioner's property.

14:07:05 Staff has no objection to this request.

14:07:07 Easements are required for wastewater and Verizon.

14:07:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here in opposition to this

14:07:15 petition?




14:07:15 Anyone here in opposition?

14:07:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.

14:07:20 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Second.

14:07:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?

14:07:23 Do you want to read that?

14:07:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Move an ordinance -- vacating closing

14:07:34 abandoning a certain alleyway a portion of that

14:07:38 right-of-way all that alley lying south of west Hilda

14:07:41 street, north of west Cayuga street, east of north

14:07:45 Highland Avenue and west of North Florida Avenue in

14:07:47 Meadowbrook, a subdivision in the City of Tampa,

14:07:50 Florida, as more fully described in section 1 herein

14:07:54 subject to certain covenants and restrictions described

14:07:59 herein providing an effective date.

14:08:01 Being.

14:08:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Stokes.

14:08:04 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

14:08:06 Opposes?

14:08:07 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern being absent.

14:08:09 Second reading of the ordinance will be held February

14:08:12 3rd at 9:30 a.m.

14:08:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 70.




14:08:17 Item 70.

14:08:24 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.

14:08:28 Application V-11-35 located at 1002 east Hillsborough

14:08:33 Avenue.

14:08:34 They are requesting a 3 PS for package beer wine and

14:08:38 liquor store.

14:08:39 They are requesting four waivers, three for the

14:08:42 distance separation, and a fourth as a correction to

14:08:46 the staff report on the first page, to allow access to

14:08:49 a local street from the commercial parking lot.

14:08:53 You will notice the location is just east of Nebraska

14:08:57 Avenue, on the north side of Hillsborough.

14:09:02 This is the location here.

14:09:07 And I believe China panda is not now open.

14:09:13 So they are looking -- I'm sorry, they are looking to

14:09:17 convert this space to the package store.

14:09:22 The location, the structure contains 2034 square feet.

14:09:27 They are providing eight parking spaces as required by

14:09:30 code.

14:09:30 You will note on page 2 of the staff report, there are

14:09:32 two minor changes that are needed just in the site data

14:09:36 table and then a reference to remove the landscape




14:09:39 buffer note which is not required.

14:09:41 Transportation is also requesting a note in the first

14:09:44 bullet that the sidewalk in lieu fee be paid for

14:09:48 9th street.

14:09:49 Also to show the driveway dimensions on the site plan,

14:09:52 and we are finding a full access to 9th street.

14:09:56 They do note that the solid waste operation does need

14:09:59 access to 9th.

14:10:00 They are asking that the driveway be channelized left

14:10:03 exit only because it does go immediately back to the

14:10:06 neighborhood.

14:10:08 That's the only condition additionally that they are

14:10:10 asking for.

14:10:11 All of these changes could be made between first and

14:10:15 second reading.

14:10:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Officer Miller?

14:10:23 >> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police department.

14:10:26 City of Tampa police have in a tocks this quarterback.

14:10:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?

14:10:37 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Can you show that first picture

14:10:39 put up of the location?

14:10:47 That China panda sign.




14:10:49 Looks like it's hanging over the street.

14:10:51 >>GWEN MILLER: No, it's not.

14:10:52 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: It's not?

14:10:55 >>GWEN MILLER: No.

14:10:57 It's a sidewalk.

14:11:03 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Given the conversation you had

14:11:03 earlier about signage and the question about the way

14:11:07 property lines changing, Hillsborough Avenue has been

14:11:10 widened many times over the years, if you look at the

14:11:15 survey.

14:11:16 Signage, as you know, is not part of this application.

14:11:18 >>GWEN MILLER: It's not over the street.

14:11:23 It's a sidewalk between them and the street.

14:11:25 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Thank you.

14:11:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?

14:11:31 >> Russell Rottenberg, Planning Incorporated, 16855 --

14:11:39 Drive, Tampa 33624.

14:11:41 I have been sworn.

14:11:44 We'll make the staff recommend site plan changes as

14:11:49 requested.

14:11:51 Other than that, we have been in communication with the

14:11:55 Hampton terrace neighborhood association.




14:11:58 I believe this area needs to be -- used to be part of

14:12:02 the Seminole Heights neighborhood association.

14:12:04 But subsequently, or more recently, Hampton terrace was

14:12:09 formed, and so that is the neighborhood association

14:12:11 that we have been dealing with.

14:12:14 I have been speaking with Mr. Jim Quinn, the

14:12:16 vice-president of the neighborhood association.

14:12:19 They had several concerns.

14:12:20 And we have had a lot of communication with Mr. Quidd,

14:12:27 and as a result of that we would like to offer several

14:12:29 other changes to the site plan.

14:12:31 The first being that currently we are proposing hours

14:12:40 of operation to extend to 3 a.m. and we will

14:12:42 voluntarily cut that back to midnight.

14:12:45 Secondly, there was a concern that single bottles or

14:12:50 cans of beer would be sold.

14:12:53 The applicant has agreed not to do that, only sell full

14:12:56 six packs or larger so there won't be any single sales

14:12:59 of that nature occurring at the store.

14:13:02 Thirdly, we are agreeing to install -- and this is our

14:13:11 initiative -- 6.5-foot privacy fence on the northern

14:13:15 property line of the property to further segregate the




14:13:21 site from the neighborhood behind.

14:13:23 Currently there's nothing there.

14:13:25 We think that will help the activities for the store

14:13:29 and the Hillsborough Avenue side which of course is a

14:13:31 major commercial corridor there.

14:13:36 Lastly, there was a request -- one of the concerns we

14:13:40 had was the applicant was simply trying to get the 3 PS

14:13:47 in order to turn around and sell this property at a

14:13:50 later date.

14:13:50 I have the applicant here with me.

14:13:53 And he has another store over in Ulmerton.

14:13:56 He actually wants to open several as a small chain.

14:14:00 So that's not part of his program.

14:14:05 But in order to address that concern, we were looking

14:14:11 to find a way to add some language, and I don't know if

14:14:16 this is legally possible through a special use, but add

14:14:20 some language that would -- if it's approved, a special

14:14:27 use permit void if the property is sold within one

14:14:31 year.

14:14:31 He plans on hanging onto the property.

14:14:34 As I say, he wants several.

14:14:35 I don't know if that's language that we can work out.




14:14:37 We would be happy to work out something with the legal

14:14:40 department if that's available.

14:14:42 But those are the four additional conditions that we

14:14:47 would be happy to place on this petition.

14:14:49 If you have any questions, I would be happy to answer.

14:14:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me have legal speak to that.

14:14:54 I don't think it's enforceable.

14:14:56 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.

14:14:58 You are correct, Mr. Chairman.

14:14:59 We do not tie special use permits to affect land use

14:15:02 permits to who owns the property so that would not be

14:15:07 an appropriate condition.

14:15:07 >> But we would still agree to the other three

14:15:12 conditions.

14:15:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Members of the public that wish to

14:15:18 address council may come forward.

14:15:19 State your name and address for the record, please.

14:15:21 >> I'm Evan St. Ives. I am also president.

14:15:31 Old Seminole Heights neighborhood association.

14:15:34 While it is true that Hampton terrace neighborhood

14:15:36 association is the neighborhood of record, Old Seminole

14:15:38 Heights neighborhood association also has 92 members




14:15:42 which live in that area, and the authorized me to speak

14:15:49 on behalf of them.

14:15:50 And it's on behalf of myself, because I live there in

14:15:52 this neighborhood.

14:15:56 Originally the neighborhood spent years and years

14:15:58 fighting prostitution and drugs in that area.

14:16:01 We have used the resources of the Tampa Police

14:16:03 Department.

14:16:04 We have used the resources of the Tampa neighborhood

14:16:06 watch association.

14:16:07 And we have pretty much minimized that problem.

14:16:13 One of the concerns we were having was the store would

14:16:16 be open until 3 a.m.

14:16:18 I hear that condition has been obviated by a condition

14:16:22 from the Hampton terrace neighborhood association.

14:16:25 But additionally, across the street, diagonally, there

14:16:29 is a DACO substance abuse and drug rehabilitation

14:16:34 facility, and that facility has houses between 20 and

14:16:37 30 families and residents rehabilitating from drugs and

14:16:40 alcohol abuse.

14:16:41 And we think that it would negatively impact that

14:16:44 situation to have another package store there.




14:16:48 Recently, the traffic patterns on Hillsborough Avenue

14:16:51 have been changed, and to do that, it cuts off a couple

14:16:57 of ingresses and egresses.

14:17:01 And changing the traffic pattern on 9th street

14:17:03 would adversely affect the ingress and egress to our

14:17:07 neighborhood, and probably double the traffic that goes

14:17:11 up and down 9th street.

14:17:13 Lastly, there's a gas station on the corner of Nebraska

14:17:17 and Hillsborough Avenue.

14:17:19 There is a Circle K on the corner of 15th street

14:17:22 and Hillsborough Avenue.

14:17:24 There is a convenience store on the corner of Powhatan

14:17:29 and Nebraska Avenue.

14:17:30 There's a Publix at 6001 Nebraska Avenue.

14:17:32 All of these stores sell beer and wine.

14:17:36 They are approximately within one mile location of this

14:17:39 particular location that they want to make a package

14:17:42 store, and additionally, with a little over a mile at

14:17:46 the corner of broad street and Nebraska Avenue, this is

14:17:50 another package store, the ABC package store which

14:17:54 sells package liquor.

14:17:55 It is my opinion and the opinion of my constituency




14:17:57 that sufficient outlets exist for alcoholic sales in

14:18:01 our neighborhood.

14:18:03 The drawbacks for allowing another store that sells

14:18:06 alcoholic beverages in our neighborhood are far

14:18:09 outweighed by the disadvantages of the community.

14:18:12 Thank you for your consideration.

14:18:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.

14:18:14 Next speaker.

14:18:15 >> My name is Ann McDowell.

14:18:24 I live at 5605 Ninth Street north.

14:18:28 I am exactly three blocks north of the proposed liquor

14:18:33 store.

14:18:34 I want to remind you of what Mr. Saint Ives has just

14:18:39 told you, and that is that directly behind -- you could

14:18:44 not see it on the picture that Cathy showed you.

14:18:50 Directly behind that Panda store is a facility that

14:18:55 houses -- is a halfway house for drug and alcohol

14:19:03 rehab.

14:19:04 Those people have worked, I'm sure, very hard, and they

14:19:08 live in the facility that is being paid for by the city

14:19:12 and the county.

14:19:14 We don't feel that another Avenue of obtaining drugs or




14:19:21 alcohol would be a very good use of this particular

14:19:25 corner.

14:19:28 And I would certainly ask that you not vote for this

14:19:30 change.

14:19:31 Thank you very much.

14:19:31 >> My name is Ben Nelson, north ninth street, roughly

14:19:45 250 feet from this property.

14:19:48 What they are proposing runs over multiple codes that

14:19:54 we have established to protect our neighborhoods from

14:19:57 things that we don't want in our neighborhoods.

14:20:01 As has already been illustrated, there are sources for

14:20:04 liquor and booze all around our neighborhood.

14:20:08 We are not short on any place, if we need to go find

14:20:11 liquor or booze in our neighborhood.

14:20:13 We do not need one more M.I will admit at that

14:20:19 particular location is a bit of an eyesore and has

14:20:22 hosted numerous restaurants that have failed miserably,

14:20:25 but I don't believe that a package liquor store that's

14:20:29 open till midnight, which isn't a concession, in my

14:20:34 neighborhood 250 feet away from where I try to sleep

14:20:37 and raise my family, is not the place to be.

14:20:40 I don't want it there and we don't need it there.




14:20:43 Thank you.

14:20:52 >> My name is Timothy Goggin, 5600 north ninth street

14:20:58 which is two blocks north of this package store, and a

14:21:01 lot of my concerns have already been raised by the

14:21:04 people that spoke before me.

14:21:08 The drug and tobacco, drug and rehab apartment unit

14:21:12 complex.

14:21:13 But I wanted to ask you, we get a lot of transient

14:21:19 traffic on that street, cutting the corner of

14:21:21 Hillsborough and Nebraska.

14:21:25 I sit at my couch watching television, and we hear

14:21:29 people walking up and down our street at night, 10 and

14:21:33 11:00 at night.

14:21:35 My wife and I have a small child.

14:21:37 We do not take our small child out to play in the front

14:21:40 yard.

14:21:43 As a matter of fact, we hardly play at our house at

14:21:46 all.

14:21:46 We usually take him somewhere else to go play, just

14:21:50 because of all the traffic going up and down the

14:21:52 street.

14:21:52 I walk my dogs every morning on numerous occasions I




14:21:56 have found used condoms on the street from whatever is

14:22:01 going on in the middle of the night.

14:22:04 A package store at this location, I feel, will only

14:22:09 contribute to those concerns.

14:22:10 I don't think it's appropriate for this location.

14:22:13 Thank you.

14:22:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else?

14:22:20 Okay.

14:22:20 Petitioner?

14:22:22 Rebuttal?

14:22:23 Five minutes.

14:22:24 >>> Yes, thank you.

14:22:33 I haded not directly but indirect word of some of these

14:22:37 other concerns.

14:22:39 In terms of -- as far as prostitution and drugs, if

14:22:45 there's a prostitution and drug problem out there, I

14:22:47 don't believe this store is going to add to it.

14:22:49 In fact, through Mr. Quidd, we had invited the Hampton

14:22:55 terrace neighborhood association and other invitees to

14:22:59 visit the applicant's other store.

14:23:01 He has internal and external video surveillance, does

14:23:05 not allowed loitering or for people to sit out at his




14:23:09 property.

14:23:10 And what happens if someone does come there is that he

14:23:14 warns them they have to leave, they can't stay here.

14:23:17 If they refuse to leave, he calls the police.

14:23:19 So very quickly it has become known that his other

14:23:27 store is not a hang-out, is not a place to be.

14:23:29 It neat.

14:23:30 It's well kept.

14:23:31 There's a lot of surveillance.

14:23:33 I don't see that this is going to exacerbate those

14:23:36 problems.

14:23:38 In terms of the substance abuse center, I don't know

14:23:43 that there's any -- there's speculation that this could

14:23:47 increase that.

14:23:48 I think it's just that, speculation.

14:23:52 He was also talking about changing traffic pattern on

14:23:55 ninth street.

14:23:56 I think there was some could confusion on that.

14:23:58 There won't be a change in traffic pattern on ninth

14:24:01 street.

14:24:02 What has been requested by transportation is on our

14:24:04 site only we have a left-out so that traffic does not




14:24:06 go north into the neighborhood.

14:24:09 We are amenable to that.

14:24:12 In terms of there being sufficient other places to buy

14:24:17 liquor, perhaps so, but that's really a market issue, I

14:24:26 believe.

14:24:26 I don't know that there is a limit on who can open what

14:24:33 store where.

14:24:34 It's like saying if you have a Walgreen's on the

14:24:35 corner, CVS can't go to the other corner.

14:24:38 They oftentimes compete for the same market, and you

14:24:41 see those stores across from each other all the time.

14:24:47 Mr. Mills, I believe, said there were multiple codes

14:24:51 that this was in violation of.

14:24:53 I do not see that.

14:24:55 Obviously with the several changes that we have

14:25:01 required to make from city staff, in the staff report,

14:25:04 we will be considered consistent with city code.

14:25:10 And in terms of the transient traffic, and things of

14:25:13 that nature, again, this will be a well maintained,

14:25:20 well surveilled location as opposed to it being a

14:25:23 vacant lot right now.

14:25:25 We are trying to put up a fence to ensure that all the




14:25:30 activity occurs on the Hillsborough Avenue side which

14:25:35 is a major corridor.

14:25:36 So I believe we are taking prudent and sufficient steps

14:25:40 to protect the neighborhood.

14:25:42 And would appreciate your support.

14:25:45 Thank you.

14:25:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council, any questions?

14:25:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.

14:25:54 >> Second.

14:25:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

14:25:57 All in favor?

14:25:58 What's the pleasure, council?

14:26:04 >>CURTIS STOKES: I'll move to deny the petitioner's

14:26:06 request citing neighborhood concerns, additional

14:26:08 traffic concerns, that we have talked about in the

14:26:12 past.

14:26:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.

14:26:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I can.

14:26:20 I'll direct your attention to the staff report on page

14:26:23 3, section 27-269, the general standards.

14:26:30 If you can, take a look at those standard and see what

14:26:32 facts you heard that would support some of those




14:26:35 general standards.

14:26:37 The fact that they don't meet that in your denial.

14:26:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Also please note that you have to

14:26:47 waive the institutional use, the institution in close

14:26:54 proximity, Seminole Heights Baptist church, and Gibbons

14:27:00 park, another reason as well.

14:27:06 >>CURTIS STOKES: Thank you.

14:27:07 I will be more specific in my denial.

14:27:08 I move of that we deny the petitioner's request on

14:27:11 sections 27-269 on general standard, item number 1, the

14:27:17 use will ensure public health, safety, welfare by the

14:27:22 proposed development operated according to the plan as

14:27:24 submitted.

14:27:26 Them 3, abuse is -- the use is compatible with

14:27:29 continuous and surrounding property, or its use is a

14:27:34 public necessity.

14:27:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's not compatible.

14:27:37 >>CURTIS STOKES: Not compatible.

14:27:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And also we would have to waive the

14:27:41 rule in regards to the institution within 1,000 feet

14:27:43 rule which would be Seminole Baptist church.

14:27:48 Moved and seconded by councilman Caetano. Anything




14:27:50 else council wants to add?

14:27:55 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Miranda seconded it, I think.

14:27:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, I said that.

14:28:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Meant to say Charlie Miranda.

14:28:01 You used "Caetano."

14:28:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

14:28:05 Councilman Miranda.

14:28:06 Thank you.

14:28:07 Yes, sir?

14:28:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Also, section 5 as well.

14:28:17 And some of the facts that you heard, again your

14:28:21 decision has to be based on competent substantial

14:28:23 evidence of the evidence that's been presented to you

14:28:25 at this hearing.

14:28:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Motion and second.

14:28:28 All in favor of the denial signify by saying Aye.

14:28:32 Opposes be?

14:28:33 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried.

14:28:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 71.

14:28:37 Item 71.

14:28:45 Item 71.

14:28:51 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.




14:29:05 Case V-11-36, 914 North Franklin Street, on premises

14:29:13 only for beer, wine and liquor.

14:29:14 There's a two-story structure on-site that occupies

14:29:19 half of the lot that is being proposed.

14:29:21 The other half is proposed to contain an outdoor

14:29:24 seating area.

14:29:27 The location at the corner, the southwest corner of

14:29:30 Tyler and Franklin, this location here, is directly

14:29:34 across from Massey park.

14:29:39 What I will note on this particular aerial is that the

14:29:41 parking is located off-site within 1,000 feet pursuant

14:29:45 to the regulation of 27241 so it does meet our code.

14:29:50 Parking is located on this location which is the

14:29:53 parking lot that was just constructed recently on the

14:29:56 old Maas Brothers site, the parking lot located to the

14:29:59 northeast, which is the old goody goody site.

14:30:06 This is the building, the establishment, which is

14:30:19 occupied.

14:30:22 This is the outdoor seating area that will be

14:30:24 constructed.

14:30:25 This is the view from the north looking south of the

14:30:29 side of the building.




14:30:29 And this is the vacant lot.

14:30:34 The building itself, the alcoholic beverage sales area,

14:30:39 according to the site plan, covers both floors of the

14:30:42 structure, 6,228 square feet, 6,225 square feet of the

14:30:48 outdoor area for seating for a total of 8,853.4 square

14:30:52 feet.

14:30:54 The site plan notes a higher number which I will

14:30:57 reference in staff findings.

14:30:59 Parking for the proposed use as I noted is 172 spaces,

14:31:03 and 175 are being provided off-site.

14:31:05 This is in the downtown core within the CBD.

14:31:10 On page 2 beginning of the staff findings, there are

14:31:13 inconsistency findings.

14:31:16 Basically all these changes can be made between first

14:31:18 and second reading.

14:31:19 They are changes to the documentation on the site plan.

14:31:23 The notes exhibit B-2, the cut-out legal needs to be

14:31:27 corrected, needs to be shrunk slightly, and noted on

14:31:30 page 2.

14:31:33 Strike waiver number 1 on the site plan.

14:31:35 There's an additional note that needs to be added.

14:31:37 Note number 3 under land development.




14:31:41 Transportation is asking for some clarification but

14:31:45 notes that the parking calculation needs to be updated,

14:31:47 and that the second bullet for the operation of valet

14:31:50 service needs to go to the right-of-way permitting

14:31:53 process which is pursuant to code.

14:31:58 Additionally, the agreements and the maps for the

14:32:02 off-site parking areas, the agreement letter at the

14:32:07 off-site parking area language.

14:32:11 This is a map that was produced by the applicant.

14:32:14 And this is the letter of 717 parking that is providing

14:32:18 the parking off-site.

14:32:19 Just to note for the record, the owners of 717 actually

14:32:23 owns to property as well.

14:32:28 Solid waste does have additional conditions as well, an

14:32:32 additional note on the site plan that needs to be

14:32:33 addressed.

14:32:36 Locations within 1,000 feet are noted on page 4, as

14:32:38 well as the bottom of page 4, 5, 6 and 7 and 8.

14:32:44 All of the conditions of the code under 27-269 and

14:32:48 27-272.

14:32:49 I did receive -- I sent all the information in the

14:32:53 staff report to the applicant's agent and did receive




14:32:57 notes back from the agent that they believe revisions

14:33:00 could be made and would be willing to make them between

14:33:03 first and second reading.

14:33:04 I did also receive a couple letters of support, one

14:33:09 from the Dominos pizza and one from Courtyard Marriott

14:33:14 which we will submit for the record.

14:33:18 I'm available for any questions.

14:33:19 >> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police department.

14:33:24 City of Tampa police department has no objections.

14:33:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?

14:33:38 >> Alan Murphy, consulting group, 101 East Kennedy

14:33:43 Boulevard.

14:33:44 I have been sworn in.

14:33:45 If you would like, I have some photographs of the

14:33:47 property Cathy has already shown, but I also include in

14:33:51 the package the photographs that propose what they

14:33:54 propose to do with the property.

14:33:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here in opposition?

14:33:56 Anyone in opposition?

14:33:58 >>CHAIRMAN: Move to close.

14:34:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.

14:34:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?




14:34:02 All right.

14:34:03 Councilwoman Capin.

14:34:11 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I move an ordinance approving a special

14:34:15 use permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales, large

14:34:18 venue, making lawful the sale of beverages regardless

14:34:21 of alcoholic content, beer, wine and liquor, 4(COP-X)

14:34:25 for the consumption on premises only at or from that

14:34:29 certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 912 North

14:34:34 Franklin Street, Tampa, Florida, as more particularly

14:34:37 described in section 2 hereof, imposing certain

14:34:40 conditions based on the location of the property,

14:34:44 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict,

14:34:47 providing an effective date.

14:34:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: A second, but along with all the

14:34:51 notifications that were brought up by the department

14:34:54 between first and second reading should be adhered to

14:34:57 before we pass it on second readings.

14:35:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's moved and seconded by councilman

14:35:02 Miranda.

14:35:02 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

14:35:04 Opposes?

14:35:04 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern being absent.




14:35:08 Second reading of the ordinance will be held February

14:35:10 3rd at 9 30 a.m.

14:35:12 >> item 72.

14:35:18 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.

14:35:20 This location at 2908 West Gandy Boulevard, they are

14:35:29 requesting a 4(COP-R), beer wine and liquor in

14:35:32 conjunction with a restaurant use on-premises

14:35:37 consumption only, no package.

14:35:39 Property is zoned CG.

14:35:40 The unit contains 3,808 square feet, and is an

14:35:44 expansion of an existing restaurant.

14:35:45 There's a 340-square-foot outdoor seating area as well

14:35:50 for a total alcoholic beverage sales area of 4,148

14:35:54 square feet.

14:35:55 It is located to the west of Bayshore Boulevard on the

14:35:57 south side of Gandy directly between two multifamily

14:36:01 type developments on Gandy Boulevard.

14:36:07 The shopping center has been around since the mid

14:36:13 80s, I believe.

14:36:14 You will note this is the restaurant itself.

14:36:23 This is basically the side of the parking lot looking

14:36:25 at the signage and then the front of the unit itself.




14:36:34 There are four waivers being requested.

14:36:40 Three for the specific uses surrounding for distance

14:36:44 separation.

14:36:45 There is an additional waiver that's noted on the site

14:36:47 plan reducing parking from 40 to 23 spaces.

14:36:50 There's a clarification.

14:36:55 You have the notes in front of you.

14:36:56 I passed them out.

14:36:57 The actual waiver will be reducing parking from 48 to

14:37:01 31 spaces.

14:37:03 We have worked with the applicant to develop some

14:37:06 additional parking spaces to the rear.

14:37:10 They are willing to make this change between first and

14:37:12 second reading.

14:37:13 There is approximately eight to nine parking spaces in

14:37:15 the rear that could be developed pursuant to our code

14:37:18 which would bring the total to 31 minimum spaces.

14:37:22 So reduction of 17.

14:37:25 You will note on page 2 of the staff report that there

14:37:28 are some clarifications needed related to the occupant

14:37:31 load in the parking.

14:37:32 That's further clarified by the conditions sent by the




14:37:35 applicant.

14:37:37 Bullet number one, the required parking for the site is

14:37:42 actually 48 spaces, and the occupant load for the

14:37:45 proposed expansion of the restaurant is a total of 129

14:37:48 persons.

14:37:50 They will scrape and restore the existing turf block

14:37:52 and install wheel stops in the rear parking area

14:37:55 increasing the total number of just 31 spaces.

14:37:58 The rear parking area is to be designated for employer

14:38:01 owner use, that they will correct the parking waiver on

14:38:03 the site plan.

14:38:06 Transportation still maintains the overall objection to

14:38:08 the reduction in parking which is approximately 35%,

14:38:13 which is reduced from the original reduction in a you

14:38:15 that you see in the staff report of 42.5%.

14:38:18 So they have made strides to provide to provide

14:38:21 additional parking on-site.

14:38:22 The objection on the reduction of parking still stands

14:38:25 from transportation.

14:38:27 I believe if council still wishes to approve the

14:38:30 changes they are proposing were the notes in the

14:38:32 graphic in the rear can be done between first and




14:38:34 second reading.

14:38:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Officer Miller?

14:38:41 >> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police department.

14:38:45 City of Tampa police department has no objections on

14:38:47 this.

14:38:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?

14:38:50 >> 309 south Willow Avenue, Tampa, on behalf of the

14:38:58 applicant, E.C. ventures.

14:39:00 I had a lot more to say but Cathy did such a wonderful

14:39:03 job with all the information regarding the parking

14:39:07 waivers that I will say we are committed to making

14:39:08 changes to the site plan and the notes before second

14:39:10 reading.

14:39:11 And I would also like to thank Cathy and also Melanie

14:39:14 Calloway with transportation staff for working with us

14:39:16 over the past couple of days to develop these.

14:39:18 Thank you.

14:39:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone in opposition?

14:39:20 Anyone in opposition?

14:39:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.

14:39:25 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Second.

14:39:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?




14:39:28 Councilman Caetano?

14:39:29 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: An ordinance approving a special

14:39:38 using permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales, small

14:39:41 venue, making lawful the sale of beverages containing

14:39:43 alcohol regardless of alcohol content, beer wine and

14:39:46 liquor, 4(COP-R) for consumption on the premises only

14:39:50 in connection with a restaurant business establishment

14:39:53 at or from that certain lot, plot or tract of land

14:39:56 located at 2908 West Gandy Boulevard, Tampa, Florida,

14:40:01 as more particularly described in section 2 hereof

14:40:04 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict

14:40:08 providing an effective date.

14:40:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I would like to add with the

14:40:11 revisions, three four bullet points I think have to be

14:40:15 addressed, that they be added to the change order

14:40:18 between first and second reading.

14:40:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Miranda.

14:40:22 All in favor?

14:40:24 Opposes?

14:40:25 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern being absent.

14:40:27 Second reading of the ordinance will be held February

14:40:30 3rd at 9:30 a.m.




14:40:33 >> item 73.

14:40:48 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.

14:41:00 I believe there might be some confusion on the report

14:41:05 from TPD.

14:41:06 The one that was transmitted, I believe it's the

14:41:10 correct one.

14:41:12 Case V-10-406 located at 1701 to 1702 North Franklin

14:41:16 Street.

14:41:17 They are requesting a 4 dop X, beer wine and liquor on

14:41:21 premises consumption only, no package sales.

14:41:24 They are requesting three waivers.

14:41:26 One, the first two for distance separation from other

14:41:30 establishments selling alcohol, and one for

14:41:32 institutional uses.

14:41:33 The third waiver is to reduce parking from 263 spaces

14:41:37 to 32 spaces.

14:41:39 Be the 32 spaces are located directly across the street

14:41:42 as part of the zoning law.

14:41:43 It is an established parking lot for this particular

14:41:46 site.

14:41:49 The alcohol sales according to the application are

14:41:51 going to be in conjunction with a bar or nightclub use.




14:41:56 The two-story structure contains 16058 square feet

14:42:00 which-ole will comprise the full alcoholic sales area.

14:42:08 The occupant load according to the calculation based on

14:42:11 the parking count would be approximately 1052 persons.

14:42:16 Currently the site does have approval through ordinance

14:42:18 99-216 for a 4(COP-R).

14:42:21 In conjunction with a restaurant use with several

14:42:23 conditions for sales of alcoholic beverages approved in

14:42:30 1999.

14:42:30 You will note the location on Franklin just north of

14:42:36 Henderson, the building itself is located at the

14:42:41 northeast corner.

14:42:43 The parking lot is directly a owes from the northwest

14:42:46 corner.

14:42:50 The structure in question is this one.

14:42:54 It takes up basically the entire lot.

14:42:58 This is a view of the street running between the

14:42:59 building and the parking lot.

14:43:05 And this is a view of the parking lot with the building

14:43:09 over here on the side.

14:43:16 You will note on pages 2 and 3, there are consistency

14:43:24 findings from land development and transportation, the




14:43:26 note from solid waste is simply a notation or comment

14:43:31 to the applicant noting that if they go through

14:43:33 permitting that they may need to convert to 95-gallon

14:43:37 cart, given there's in a location on-site for dumpster.

14:43:42 To clarify, the applicant has worked with TPD as well

14:43:48 as through my office and developed a list of conditions

14:43:52 for this particular request based on several items that

14:43:55 were raised by TPD as well as ourselves from the land

14:44:00 development side.

14:44:02 The notes that are coming from my office, in

14:44:04 particular, are to correct the occupant load on the

14:44:06 site plan and stated as 1052.

14:44:10 There was a permit issued in June of 2000.

14:44:13 It appears that the second floor, the occupancy of the

14:44:16 second floor expired, the permit for that, to occupy

14:44:20 it.

14:44:20 That permit expired and was not completed, so they will

14:44:24 need to address that back through the permitting office

14:44:26 to occupy that space, in our opinion.

14:44:29 I did ask to add a note to the site plan that says the

14:44:32 site shall add hear to all applicable land development

14:44:34 codes and in order to occupy the second floor as a bar,




14:44:38 club, or space or any use other than office.

14:44:43 I found the previous use wags office, and that was the

14:44:46 past approved previous use as permitted.

14:44:49 So adding that note would clarify in order to occupy

14:44:52 that space they will need to finish the permitting

14:44:54 process for that second floor.

14:44:56 The third bullet is the required parking needs to be

14:45:00 calculated appropriately for the life safety code with

14:45:04 1052 occupant load.

14:45:06 The required parking is 263 spaces.

14:45:08 They have 32 across the street on their parking lot.

14:45:12 This reduction is accepted.

14:45:14 It was unclear at the time whether or not that

14:45:16 calculation included the second floor, and the

14:45:19 applicant did verify with me that the 1052 occupant

14:45:22 load does include the second floor.

14:45:23 So that's for the note to be placed on the plan as the

14:45:27 waiver to reduce the required parking from 263 to 32

14:45:34 spaces.

14:45:34 Next the comments from transportation.

14:45:36 They also noted the reduction in parking is excessive,

14:45:39 approximately 89%.




14:45:42 The calculations for the parking be added to the site

14:45:45 plan as I noted in my comments.

14:45:46 They are also asking for the note to be added that the

14:45:49 allowance of compact spaces be increased from 65% to

14:45:53 100 percent.

14:45:54 All of the spaces in the parking lot are compact.

14:46:01 What the petitioner has agreed to, which I'm sure they

14:46:06 will get into some more detail on, is this particular

14:46:09 letter, and it does have to do with on-site security to

14:46:15 be address some of the concerns of the adverse effects

14:46:19 of the surrounding area.

14:46:21 There also is an agreement for a one-year conditional

14:46:26 special use approval, which we'll go into more detail

14:46:30 on as well.

14:46:32 For my perspective dealing with the parking issue,

14:46:34 which is the largest thing for me on this particular

14:46:36 application, is the parking because the reduction is

14:46:39 excessive.

14:46:40 Any waiver that council would grant through an approval

14:46:42 on a one-year conditional would expire in that one

14:46:45 year, and I would ask that it be noted for the record

14:46:48 if council does approve this than in TPD's monitoring




14:46:52 of this site over a one-year period, that if parking

14:46:56 does become an excessive issue to the surrounding area

14:46:59 that that be documented and noted in case they come

14:47:01 back for a second approval.

14:47:03 That way, council could consider that granting an

14:47:06 additional waiver later on.

14:47:10 I am just noting that for the report. It's nothing to

14:47:12 address other than we do have an objection to the

14:47:14 overall parking reduction.

14:47:22 >> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police department.

14:47:25 As Ms. Coyle said, TPD has been in negotiation was Mr.

14:47:29 Diaz in reference this particular property.

14:47:33 You will note on the new report which I revised, that

14:47:36 should be in front of you now, the revised report.

14:47:43 Thereby were some issues.

14:47:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I don't have ab revised.

14:47:47 The one I have is the December 10th report.

14:47:49 >>> You should have January 18, 2011 report.

14:47:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Strong opposition.

14:48:01 >> Don Miller: Yes, that's the wrong report.

14:48:05 I am putting in this new report here.

14:48:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.




14:48:09 >> As you see city attached conditions agreed upon,

14:48:19 special use request, which is going to be Mr. Diaz's

14:48:22 page 3 of my report.

14:48:23 And this particular one as you can see in front of you

14:48:35 there reference to security needs, and the agreement

14:48:41 that we have talked about.

14:48:43 We are asking that Mr. Diaz establish this, and we are

14:48:50 hoping that before the second reading that everything

14:48:55 required by him will be done.

14:48:56 And will be for the coming to approve this as

14:49:03 negotiated through Mr. Diaz and the Tampa Police

14:49:06 Department.

14:49:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So from the TPD, you all are saying

14:49:12 that one-year conditional, also two exterior security

14:49:18 officers, right?

14:49:20 >> Yes, sir.

14:49:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Sworn law enforcement officers, not to

14:49:25 exceed 250 persons.

14:49:31 Is that right?

14:49:34 >>GWEN MILLER: No, no.

14:49:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Additional law enforcement.

14:49:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: One officer per 250 occupants.




14:49:56 >>YVONNE CAPIN: So this is exterior.

14:50:01 250.

14:50:02 And then an officer when they exceed.

14:50:10 Inside interior for every --

14:50:18 >> Provide one security interior.

14:50:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Who is going to monitor this?

14:50:27 >> We are.

14:50:28 Because it's going ton a one-year conditional, it's

14:50:32 going to be closely scrutinized and watched to make

14:50:35 sure they don't violate any of this, or we do what wave

14:50:38 to do.

14:50:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And I understand also Ms. Coyle said

14:50:43 the parking because of a severe reduction in the

14:50:45 parking, that that would be monitored at any point

14:50:48 should that be violated, and -- well, I thought it

14:50:56 was --

14:50:59 >>CATHERINE COYLE: It's not that it would be

14:51:00 automatically revoked or suspended.

14:51:02 This particular applicant is agreeing to take the

14:51:06 one-year approval.

14:51:07 So in one year, the permit expires.

14:51:10 Whether or not they come back to petition or apply for




14:51:14 an additional one is completely up to them.

14:51:16 But during this one-year period is the time to monitor

14:51:19 these issues for controls on those adverse effects.

14:51:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Got you.

14:51:24 Okay.

14:51:24 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Officer Miller, item number 3,

14:51:28 police calls for services, 151 calls.

14:51:31 Is there a liquor license, beer-wine license there now?

14:51:35 >> Correct, it does have a 4(COP-R) license right now.

14:51:39 >> So it's in operation now?

14:51:41 >> Yes, sir.

14:51:42 >> A new owner?

14:51:43 >> Yes, sir.

14:51:44 No, no, same owner.

14:51:46 Same manager.

14:51:48 For the record, I would like to have the captain come

14:51:59 up.

14:51:59 >> Captain Craig Roberts, Tampa Police Department.

14:52:02 Yes, this location is zoned to be a restaurant, but

14:52:06 they have been operating basically over the last year

14:52:10 as a full scale nightclub.

14:52:13 Their state liquor license is for a stand-alone bar




14:52:17 with no food.

14:52:17 But they have been operating in this manner.

14:52:20 What we agreed to do in negotiations, they were put on

14:52:25 notice again about their violation of what we perceived

14:52:28 to be a violation.

14:52:30 But through negotiation, we agreed that if they would

14:52:35 hire extra duty officers to be brought as listed, the

14:52:38 calls for service that we have had to respond out to,

14:52:42 to this location, that was our concern, the deployment

14:52:44 of our officers away from other areas to this location.

14:52:48 So in negotiations, we agreed that they would need to

14:52:52 open up an extra duty account with our department and

14:52:57 hire a minimum of two extra duty officers for a minimum

14:53:00 of four hours a night, on any night they are open when

14:53:03 they are going to have more than 250 occupants inside.

14:53:07 And that's what is spelled out basically in there.

14:53:11 And we agreed to that on a one-year conditional to

14:53:16 basically see how it goes.

14:53:17 But, again, in my opinion, they have had over a year

14:53:22 they have been operating like this.

14:53:24 They could have hired extra duty at any time, gone down

14:53:28 to the office and hired extra duty.




14:53:31 They didn't until now when it became clear that we knew

14:53:34 they were in violation of their "R" permit.

14:53:37 So my contention is, if they don't open up an extra

14:53:42 duty account and have officers ready to go and be hired

14:53:47 within two weeks then we are going to come back and

14:53:49 oppose it.

14:53:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.

14:53:51 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: They have agreed to hire?

14:53:55 Have they notified you?

14:53:57 >> Well, yes, again this is what they wrote out, Mr.

14:54:00 Diaz wrote and told us that he would hire.

14:54:03 This is part of the condition of the conditional one

14:54:06 year, that he would hire these officers.

14:54:12 If there's any kind of a problem within the next two

14:54:15 weeks when they don't come up with the downtown

14:54:18 payment, they don't do what's required to hire extra

14:54:21 duty, to open up an account, then we are going to

14:54:25 oppose it.

14:54:25 And it shouldn't be a time problem.

14:54:27 But again they have had plenty of time that they have

14:54:29 been open as a full scale nightclub to hire.

14:54:33 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: One other question.




14:54:35 That's after they have 250 people.

14:54:38 So up to 250 people, they would need one officer there.

14:54:42 >> Extra duty office has certain duty requirements.

14:54:48 For bars you have to hire minimum two officers so they

14:54:51 have to have a minimum two officers, or minimum of

14:54:54 three hours is the minimum that you can hire extra duty

14:54:56 officers.

14:54:57 They have agreed to hire for a minimum of four hours

14:55:00 those two officers on any night they have over 250

14:55:04 occupants inside.

14:55:06 Basically, it's mirroring the ordinance that's already

14:55:10 in place for Ybor City, Channelside, and the downtown

14:55:13 district.

14:55:13 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Thank you.

14:55:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Questions by council?

14:55:19 Petitioner?

14:55:19 >> Good afternoon.

14:55:24 My name is Joseph Diaz, offices at 2522 West Kennedy

14:55:27 Boulevard.

14:55:29 I represent Roland and Antoinette Moritos.

14:55:37 My clients purchased this property, and I can furnish a

14:55:40 photograph to give you an idea.




14:55:42 The property is located on the northwest corner of

14:55:48 Franklin and Henderson Avenue.

14:55:56 They bought this property back in 1997.

14:55:59 And in 1999 they came before council, and council gave

14:56:01 them a 4(COP-R).

14:56:05 That ordinance provided that a minimum of 51% of the

14:56:08 revenues would be derived from the sale of food, that

14:56:11 they would be a restaurant on the first floor, and

14:56:14 though it didn't specifically affect the sale

14:56:18 anticipated that the second floor could be used for any

14:56:21 purposes other than a restaurant.

14:56:23 And it was anticipated the second floor was going to be

14:56:26 kind of like a nightclub, if you would.

14:56:30 We operated this location for many, many years, and in

14:56:33 a problems.

14:56:35 We leased this location a year ago.

14:56:39 And the next thing we know, we found out there's a

14:56:42 bunch of problems here.

14:56:44 So we have got a piece of property on Franklin and

14:56:47 Henderson which is in the middle of nowhere.

14:56:51 Not sure what we would do with this thing.

14:56:54 I have spoken with captain Roberts.




14:56:56 Captain Roberts has led me to believe that in all of

14:57:01 our visits to the site, there isn't a parking problem.

14:57:04 Because there isn't anybody up there at night.

14:57:07 If you are not at this facility you aren't going to see

14:57:11 anybody out there.

14:57:12 So we thought, well, you know ba what?

14:57:16 If we took a one-year conditional, you will see whether

14:57:18 we can come in here and maybe put our hands around our

14:57:22 tenant's throat a little bit and helping enforcement of

14:57:25 the situation.

14:57:26 But you are also going to have the ability to see

14:57:28 whether or not there is in fact a parking problem out

14:57:30 there.

14:57:31 So that letter that you read, I drafted that letter

14:57:34 based on meetings that I had with captain Roberts, with

14:57:38 Cathy, with Rebecca, with telephone conversation with

14:57:42 Kirby Rainsberger, with a lady by the name of LeAnn

14:57:45 Smith who runs their extra duty officers.

14:57:50 Including much mirrors the existing city code section,

14:57:55 27 --

14:57:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Diaz, are you in agreement with

14:57:58 all the terms that's been placed before council today?




14:58:01 >> I'm in agreement with the two waivers and the two

14:58:03 notes that Cathy set forth.

14:58:06 And I'm in agreement with every term and condition set

14:58:08 forth in the letter that I sent to captain Craig

14:58:13 Roberts dated January 18, 2001 -- 2011, excuse me,

14:58:19 which says we take a one-year conditional.

14:58:22 In 2-A it says if you have more than 250 people we are

14:58:25 going to have two off-duty officers for a minimum of

14:58:29 four hours, from 11:to 3:30.

14:58:33 You will see that in the next photograph.

14:58:34 If we go over 650, we'll have a third off-duty officer.

14:58:39 And in addition to that, we'll have interior private

14:58:43 security, one for every 150 people.

14:58:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.

14:58:49 Any questions by council?

14:58:52 Anyone here in opposition?

14:58:54 Anyone here in opposition to this petition?

14:58:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.

14:58:59 >> Second.

14:59:00 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.

14:59:05 If City Council chooses to approve this, I have a

14:59:07 substitute ordinance reflecting the one-year




14:59:09 conditional.

14:59:10 The rest of the conditions we need to make between

14:59:13 first and second reading.

14:59:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second to close.

14:59:17 All in favor?

14:59:19 Okay.

14:59:19 Do you want to read?

14:59:23 Charlie?

14:59:35 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: An ordinance repealing ordinance

14:59:37 99-261 approving a conditional special use permit S-2

14:59:41 for alcoholic beverage sales, small venue and making

14:59:45 lawful the sale of beverages regardless of alcoholic

14:59:47 content beer wine and liquor 4(COP-X) for consumption

14:59:51 on premises only at or from that certain lot, plot or

14:59:55 tract of land located at 1701 and 1702 North Franklin

14:59:59 Street, Tampa, Florida, as more particularly described

15:00:02 in section 3 hereof, providing for the conditional

15:00:06 special use permit to expire one year from the

15:00:09 effective date, providing for repeal of all ordinances

15:00:12 in conflict, providing an effective date.

15:00:14 And we are going to include that January 18th

15:00:17 letter, 2011 from Mr. Diaz to captain Bartlett.




15:00:26 That's going to be part of it.

15:00:27 >> Captain Roberts.

15:00:30 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Robert, I'm sorry.

15:00:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And all the other conditions as

15:00:34 outlined by Ms. Coyle.

15:00:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The petitioner has agreed to the

15:00:40 parking on the record by letter, I assume, or he stated

15:00:46 that one of those conditions is parking.

15:00:48 And that's a year from now, it may not be a problem

15:00:52 now, but let me just say that parking is one of those

15:00:54 conditions that you do not create a parking problem

15:00:59 with the waiver of parking.

15:01:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That was part of the request by Ms.

15:01:05 Coyle herself.

15:01:06 So that's part of the condition.

15:01:07 Okay.

15:01:08 Moved and seconded.

15:01:09 Seconded by councilman Miranda.

15:01:11 All in favor signify by saying Aye.

15:01:13 Opposes?

15:01:18 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern being absent.

15:01:21 Second reading of the ordinance will be held February




15:01:23 3rd at 9:30 a.m.

15:01:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other items?

15:01:30 We have item 68, right?

15:01:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, item 68 is a resolution that

15:01:41 amends three rules of council.

15:01:46 The first being quasi-judicial hearings of petitioner

15:01:51 seeking review, does not hold an interest in the

15:01:54 subject property, then the holder of that property

15:01:56 interest shall be afforded equal time to make a

15:01:59 presentation.

15:02:00 That's due process.

15:02:02 When you have a third party requesting review, the

15:02:04 property owner, who has a property interest, should be

15:02:08 afforded the opportunity to have been time to make a

15:02:12 presentation.

15:02:13 The other two are by motion of council.

15:02:18 The first one addresses what happens in the indication

15:02:20 of a tie in a quasi-judicial setting.

15:02:26 If the motion fails and another motion is not made, the

15:02:29 public hearing shall be automatically reopened and

15:02:32 continued to a time certain at the next regular council

15:02:34 meeting.




15:02:35 The third amendment by motion of council was to make

15:02:38 any waiver of the rules or any suspension of the rules,

15:02:45 a unanimous vote, a super majority of five or more.

15:02:48 Per council's rules, it gets read by title today, comes

15:02:52 back in two weeks, gets read again and takes effect on

15:02:55 the 3rd of February.

15:02:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: For the resolution -- move the

15:02:59 resolution by title.

15:03:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That would require reading by title.

15:03:06 Just on number 68.

15:03:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Number 68.

15:03:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It's very simple.

15:03:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mine doesn't have that.

15:03:28 Move the resolution of rule of procedure 6-A, rule 6-H,

15:03:37 and rule 9-B of council's rules of procedure.

15:03:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by councilman Stokes.

15:03:43 All in favor?

15:03:44 Opposes?

15:03:45 >>MARTIN SHELBY: For the last item, relative to your

15:03:49 calendar and I apologize for not bringing it up sooner,

15:03:53 what is not present on your calendar is the discussion

15:03:58 of setting a strategic planning meeting.




15:04:00 And council had a policy that would set a date each

15:04:07 April for that, that has not been set.

15:04:10 And if it's council's pleasure, we can ask council

15:04:13 members again to either set it today, depending on the

15:04:17 day of the week, or you can bring it back in two weeks,

15:04:20 and we can take a look and see what council might want

15:04:23 to have a strategic planning meeting.

15:04:25 In the meantime, I would be happy to talk to members of

15:04:28 council about that privately, if you wish, and we can

15:04:30 see if we could bring that back in two weeks, unless

15:04:33 you wish to discuss it today.

15:04:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I would suggest bring it back in two

15:04:37 weeks.

15:04:37 That way you can meet with all the council persons and

15:04:39 talk about what they may want to do that. I will do

15:04:42 that, if we can have a motion to put that on just for

15:04:45 that purpose.

15:04:46 >> So moved.

15:04:47 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Second.

15:04:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor?

15:04:50 Come back in two weeks.

15:04:51 Thank you.




15:04:52 New business?

15:04:52 Councilman Stokes.

15:04:55 >>CURTIS STOKES: As Mr. Daignault does his

15:04:59 investigation into the water bills of individual

15:05:03 residents in the City of Tampa, I also ask that he does

15:05:07 analysis.

15:05:08 Effect of the water bills on small businesses.

15:05:10 We did receive an inquiry from Hillsborough County

15:05:13 schools, Middleton high school has received a water

15:05:17 bill in the amount of $65,000 for the month of December

15:05:22 with two of those weeks, students were not in school

15:05:25 those two weeks.

15:05:26 So small businesses are receiving them as well.

15:05:33 That he does analysis on those small businesses as

15:05:35 well.

15:05:36 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Second.

15:05:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

15:05:39 All in favor?

15:05:41 Opposes?

15:05:41 Okay.

15:05:41 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: And, Mr. Chairman --

15:05:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Go ahead since you started.




15:05:49 [ Laughter ]

15:05:50 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I want to raise the issue but the

15:05:52 water department's Web site.

15:05:54 I have been on it a number of times this week.

15:05:57 I know you can't gone to the Tampa Electric Web site

15:06:00 and look up somebody's bill.

15:06:02 There's been a lot of talk going on the computers about

15:06:07 somebody being a water waster and stuff like that.

15:06:11 I know when I call TECO, they want my last four of my

15:06:17 Social Security, they want to know my account number.

15:06:19 I don't know whether it's Constitutionally right for us

15:06:22 to have this Web site available to the general public.

15:06:26 If it were a Web site -- if there was a Web site with

15:06:32 Social Security number, you would know your last four

15:06:35 and your account number.

15:06:37 So I would like to know the legal ramifications of

15:06:39 that.

15:06:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I can ask, is it your intention to

15:06:46 ask whether it's appropriate legally to have full

15:06:51 access to the water bills?

15:06:56 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Somebody else's water bill.

15:06:58 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Somebody else's water bill.




15:07:00 Is it your intention to see if it's possible to add a

15:07:03 restriction like you said like an account number?

15:07:06 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Well, everybody has an account

15:07:07 number, okay.

15:07:08 And then they have to be identified somehow.

15:07:11 And that would probably be their last four of their

15:07:13 Social Security number or whatever.

15:07:15 It could be a password that's set up with the account.

15:07:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You want to know the legality of full

15:07:22 access of the present system.

15:07:24 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: May I ask a question?

15:07:28 So basically the way, from what I'm understanding

15:07:30 you're saying, the water department is treating the

15:07:33 water bills as if this is public information, just like

15:07:39 your property taxes or whatever?

15:07:41 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Right.

15:07:45 >>YVONNE CAPIN: That's what's happening?

15:07:46 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: That's what's happening.

15:07:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I don't know -- everything that the

15:07:51 government has should be able to go to the public.

15:07:53 If it's your water bill.

15:07:56 Certainly they do it on your taxes.




15:07:57 They do it in a lot of areas.

15:08:00 I don't see why anyone would like to not be able to let

15:08:05 my water bill be on record or anyone else's water bill.

15:08:09 Just speaking for myself.

15:08:10 I don't know what harm that would do to anyone to

15:08:15 show -- we are getting to hard times in water and it's

15:08:20 not going to get better, it's going to get worse.

15:08:23 I said that ten years ago and I'll say it again.

15:08:25 It's not going to get better, it's going to get worse,

15:08:27 it's going to get more costly.

15:08:29 And I don't know why I am going to hide my own water

15:08:34 bill from somebody.

15:08:38 The more you hide it, the more suspicion you create.

15:08:42 Don't tell me that the media can't go get a court to

15:08:46 issue a one-sentence to let them look at my record or

15:08:50 anyone else's record.

15:08:52 They can certainly do that in a heartbeat.

15:08:54 And this would be an avenue for them to say, somebody

15:08:57 is trying to hide something.

15:08:58 I really feel that way.

15:09:01 I don't think that's an idea that I would support,

15:09:06 because anything that comes to us, including any




15:09:11 e-mails, computerized things, people take in, put out,

15:09:14 I don't know what they do with them.

15:09:16 It's public record.

15:09:18 And if you think that it's not fair, just give them an

15:09:22 opportunity and a reason why to look and you will be

15:09:25 surprised what they find.

15:09:26 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: The concern might be for credit

15:09:32 reasons or whatever.

15:09:33 But, you know, it is public record if you are

15:09:39 delinquent on your taxes or anything else like that.

15:09:41 It is a matter of public record.

15:09:43 This is a public service.

15:09:47 Basically, people should have access to the records.

15:09:54 >>CURTIS STOKES: I don't think Mr. Caetano is talking

15:09:56 about us on this dais.

15:09:58 I you this he's talking about the neighbors' water

15:10:01 bills.

15:10:01 I think it's a privacy issue.

15:10:03 I can't go on TECO's Web site and see what Mr.

15:10:06 Caetano's light bill is.

15:10:08 I think that's what Mr. Caetano is stress trying to

15:10:11 stress.




15:10:11 >>SAL TERRITO: It is public information.

15:10:14 TECO is not a public company.

15:10:15 The phone company not a public company.

15:10:19 They can keep the records private.

15:10:21 There are if someone wanted to go to the property

15:10:24 appraiser's records and see whether you paid your taxes

15:10:27 or not is not relevant.

15:10:29 They can see what your taxes are.

15:10:30 They can see the property, the values placed on your

15:10:33 property.

15:10:33 All that information is available.

15:10:35 Whether you have a mortgage.

15:10:36 All that information is available.

15:10:37 We are no different than any other governmental agency.

15:10:39 So putting it on our site probably saves a lot of

15:10:43 people having to go check every time somebody wanted to

15:10:46 find out what your water bill was, towed go back and

15:10:48 check it each individual time.

15:10:52 If that is public information.

15:10:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilwoman?

15:10:58 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I would like to present Troy Halpin,

15:11:01 Boy Scout troop 45, for obtaining the rank of Eagle




15:11:04 Scout.

15:11:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and seconded.

15:11:07 All in favor? Opposes?

15:11:08 When do you want to present it?

15:11:10 >>YVONNE CAPIN: The commendation?

15:11:15 Commendation will be presented at the ceremony.

15:11:20 It's going to be presented at the ceremony.

15:11:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: At the ceremony.

15:11:23 Moved and seconded.

15:11:25 All in favor? Opposes?

15:11:28 I have one item.

15:11:29 35th street, friendship Baptist church, reverend

15:11:33 Madison Murray, would like to request that

15:11:35 administration look at, transportation look at.

15:11:39 I understand that he's been at the church about 45

15:11:43 years, and maybe considering retiring.

15:11:45 So we would like to look at maybe naming that street in

15:11:48 his honor, 35th street by his church, if they can

15:11:52 look at that and bring it back, in two weeks.

15:11:56 >> Second.

15:12:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All in favor say Aye.

15:12:06 Councilman Scott.




15:12:07 Seconded by Mr. Stokes.

15:12:10 Again, unanimous.

15:12:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any other business to come before

15:12:17 council?

15:12:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to received and file all of the

15:12:21 documents from today's meeting.

15:12:23 >> Second.

15:12:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor.

15:12:26 Opposed?

15:12:26 Anyone else from the public wish to address council?

15:12:29 We stand adjourned.

15:12:49 (The meeting adjourned at 3:13 p.m.)

15:13:02



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