TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, March 17, 2011
9:00 a.m. session
The following represents an unedited version of
realtime captioning which should neither be relied upon
for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
The original of this file was produced in all capital
letters and any variation thereto may be a result of
third party edits and software compatibility issues.
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.
09:03:42 >>GWEN MILLER: The Chair will yield to Mr. Charlie
09:03:45 >> CHARLIE MIRANDA: This morning, we are honored to
09:03:47 have a person we all know very well.
09:03:49 Does an outstanding job as city clerk, Shirley
09:03:52 Foxx-Knowles will do the prayer this morning.
09:03:55 Please rise for the invocation and remain standing for
09:03:58 the Pledge of Allegiance.
09:04:00 >> Good morning, Council.
09:04:02 Let's pray.
09:04:03 Father, what a joy it is to praise you and be here once
09:04:06 again, to give you the thanks for your grace and mercy.
09:04:10 Thank you, father, for housing -- you have been so good
09:04:15 to us and we are truly thankful.
09:04:18 Thank you for being here at this moment in time.
09:04:21 76 bless our Council, our mayor, our administration,
09:04:26 our employees and our citizens.
09:04:28 Continue to keep us all in your care.
09:04:30 Today, we ask you to bless this meeting as Council
09:04:36 takes care of city matters.
09:04:37 Guide our Council so they do what is best for all of
09:04:42 our citizens.
09:04:43 Continue to make them instruments of your will.
09:04:46 Lead them as they make decisions that affect all of our
09:04:51 Father, we'll remember to be kind to one another.
09:04:55 And to always give you all the praises and thanks.
09:04:58 In your most holy name we pray, let us all say Amen.
09:05:05 [PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE]
09:05:25 [Roll Call]
09:05:27 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
09:05:28 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Present.
09:05:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:05:31 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
09:05:32 >>CURTIS STOKES: Present.
09:05:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:05:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Have the minutes to be received.
09:05:38 >> So moved.
09:05:39 >> Have a motion and second to approve the month.
09:05:43 All in favor say aye.
09:05:44 Mr. Shelby.
09:05:47 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Good morning.
09:05:48 Before you you have the addendum to today's agenda.
09:05:52 Just very briefly, two items that will have to be
09:05:56 discussed at 10:30.
09:05:58 Item 78 is going to be a request for a continuance.
09:06:01 That is item 78, file C 10-16 regarding a vacation of a
09:06:10 portion of York Street by Channelside.
09:06:12 That will have to be taken up at 10:30.
09:06:15 Again, also item 83, cannot be heard.
09:06:19 If anybody was listening regarding 1919 Seventh Avenue,
09:06:25 no affidavit was filed.
09:06:26 It is rescheduled administratively to April 7, 2011 at
09:06:30 10:30 a.m.
09:06:32 So that will be removed from the agenda.
09:06:34 Other than that, Council, with regard to item 77, which
09:06:39 is relating to the resolution to Cuba, that's placed
09:06:42 towards the end of the meeting.
09:06:43 Council, I'm going to have a request that that not move
09:06:46 forward today and I'll be able to explain to you why
09:06:49 I'm requesting that.
09:06:50 And I'll do that later on this morning.
09:06:52 Other than that, I'm not aware of any other changes to
09:06:56 today's agenda.
09:06:57 And I present it to you for your approval.
09:07:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion?
09:07:02 >> So moved.
09:07:03 >> Have a motion and a second.
09:07:04 All in favor of the motion say aye.
09:07:06 We now go to public comments.
09:07:10 Anyone in the public like to speak, please come up and
09:07:16 >> Margaret Vizzi, 213 South Sherrill.
09:07:23 I'd like to ask on number 76, there was confusion about
09:07:27 what T.H.A.N. and I spoke about on the first public
09:07:30 hearing on the alcoholic beverage regulations.
09:07:33 I would hope that Council would reopen it for further
09:07:35 comment at the time that it's going to come up at
09:07:39 I think that there was confusion, because even people
09:07:43 in the public misunderstood what was going on.
09:07:46 So -- these all I can say at this point.
09:07:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
09:07:57 >> Good morning, Council, Mr. Chairman.
09:08:04 I'm Michael Yorette speaking regarding item 75.
09:08:08 It's the bridge in New Tampa.
09:08:11 I am the, one of the principals of Tampa Palms
09:08:15 Professional Center.
09:08:17 We are a small family business that has been building
09:08:21 the class A office park off of commerce park Boulevard
09:08:24 for the past six years.
09:08:26 We purchased this property knowing of the plans for the
09:08:31 bridge over I-75.
09:08:33 And in reliance on the increased accessibility and
09:08:39 convenience that the bridge would provide the area.
09:08:43 What I would like to do, because so many people are
09:08:47 unfamiliar with exactly what we're talking about, where
09:08:50 the bridge is and what it does, I'd like to use the
09:08:53 overhead to show you what's involved.
09:08:57 Is that clear?
09:09:07 >> Yes.
09:09:09 >> You can see that this street, this road right here
09:09:14 is New Tampa Boulevard.
09:09:16 This road right here is Commerce Park Boulevard.
09:09:20 They both end at I-75, and that's where the proposed
09:09:29 bridge is designed to be built.
09:09:31 This is Bruce B. Downs.
09:09:34 And this is I-75.
09:09:36 There are no other arteries of major transportation
09:09:47 access in New Tampa, other than Bruce B. Downs and
09:09:52 The bridge is designed and has been designed for 25
09:09:59 years to connect these two dead end streets.
09:10:03 It clearly is not a bridge to nowhere.
09:10:08 This is a picture, an aerial that shows you again
09:10:16 Commerce Park Boulevard and you can just see New Tampa
09:10:22 Boulevard over here.
09:10:23 This is Highwoods Office Park.
09:10:28 This is Tampa Palms Professional Center.
09:10:32 This is Freedom High School and Liberty Middle School.
09:10:36 This is the City of Tampa's recreation center.
09:10:40 Again, the bridge is designed to link all of these
09:10:46 neighborhoods and provide convenience and accessibility
09:10:50 to the businesses and residents of the area.
09:10:54 Some of the businesses that we are talking about are
09:10:58 USAA insurance company, metropolitan life.
09:11:05 And depository trust.
09:11:08 The neighborhoods we're talking about servicing are
09:11:12 Cross Creek, Hunter's Green, Pebble Creek, West Meadows
09:11:17 and of course Tampa Palms.
09:11:19 The schools are Liberty Middle School, Freedom High
09:11:24 School, Primrose day school.
09:11:28 There are several churches, St. Andrews among them,
09:11:32 which is in Tampa Palms Professional Center.
09:11:34 As you can see, it's definitely not a bridge to
09:11:38 >> Okay, thank you, sir.
09:11:41 >> Can we give him a few more minutes.
09:11:44 This is a very important issue.
09:11:46 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to take public comments and
09:11:49 let's hear everybody first.
09:11:55 Irks that's.
09:11:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's our policy.
09:12:00 >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:12:02 >> Good morning, Andrea Zelman, Fowler White Boggs.
09:12:06 I'm here on behalf of commercial property owners in New
09:12:10 Tampa, including the Tampa Palms Professional Center.
09:12:13 We think it's important even though all that's on your
09:12:16 agenda today is a report on this bridge.
09:12:18 We think it's important for you to understand that the
09:12:21 very vocal group of folks opposing this bridge, many of
09:12:27 whom have spoken or tried to contact your offices and
09:12:31 the mayor's office, do not represent everyone in New
09:12:35 There's another side to this story, and that's what we
09:12:38 want to make you understand.
09:12:39 There's also people who don't even live in New Tampa
09:12:41 but want to see this bridge built because they are
09:12:44 employed by some of the large employers in that area,
09:12:46 including USAA and Met Life.
09:12:50 And so we want to ask Council and the Mayor's office to
09:12:55 continue to allow this project to move forward.
09:12:58 And I also speak from the perspective of having served
09:13:01 as assistant city attorney here, between 1996 and 2003,
09:13:07 when much -- I'm sorry, 2002, when much of New Tampa
09:13:10 was being developed.
09:13:11 And I want to talk to you about some of the history
09:13:15 from that perspective.
09:13:16 This particular bridge, which is the New Tampa
09:13:19 Boulevard extension, has been part of the city's
09:13:21 planned transportation network for more than 20 years.
09:13:24 And the city entered into numerous development
09:13:27 agreements that specifically included this bridge,
09:13:30 because as you know, when you approve a large scale
09:13:34 rezoning or DRI, there's transportation mitigation
09:13:38 projects associated with that.
09:13:41 And so when the studies were conducted to approve the
09:13:44 developments out there, many of the studies included
09:13:47 the assumption that the bridge would be part of the
09:13:50 transportation network.
09:13:52 So basically every development that was approved in New
09:13:55 Tampa was approved based on the assumption that that
09:13:59 bridge would be there.
09:14:00 The transportation network in that area quite possibly
09:14:02 wouldn't work but for the fact that the bridge was
09:14:04 included in all the traffic studies.
09:14:06 Also, the mitigation that will the developers were
09:14:10 required to provide would have been different had the
09:14:13 bridge not been part of the plans.
09:14:16 Even west meadows, some of the most vocal opponents to
09:14:22 the bridge are in the West Meadows.
09:14:24 But the original development agreement for West Meadows
09:14:27 required this bridge be built in order to handle the
09:14:29 traffic from that development.
09:14:31 So arguably that development could not even have been
09:14:33 built in the first place and those people couldn't be
09:14:35 living there without the agreement for this bridge to
09:14:38 be built.
09:14:39 The city also required developers to convey
09:14:42 right-of-way for the bridge, to pay impact fees toward
09:14:47 Had at least one developer, Lennar homes paid over a
09:14:51 million dollars in proportionate fair share money to
09:14:54 help construct this bridge.
09:14:56 I know your staff is going to provide a report about
09:14:58 this later, but this bridge is funded and they've
09:15:00 already selected a contractor and a bidding process
09:15:03 this week for it.
09:15:04 So again, I just want to make sure that the Council
09:15:08 understands that a number of developers in that area,
09:15:13 including my client, met significant improvements in
09:15:16 that area and attempted to mitigate for their
09:15:18 development based on their expectation that this bridge
09:15:21 would be part of the transportation network.
09:15:24 Now it's almost 20 years later, and they and all the
09:15:27 other people who would benefit from this road project
09:15:30 are still waiting.
09:15:32 So again, it's fully funded.
09:15:34 Please don't let it be delayed any more.
09:15:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
09:15:39 Next speaker?
09:15:39 Anyone else wish to address Council?
09:15:45 Public comments?
09:15:46 How much time do we have left?
09:15:48 He requested that, that one of the speakers be given.
09:15:58 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Maybe he doesn't want to speak.
09:16:00 Mr. Yorette, did you want more time?
09:16:05 >> Thank you, sir.
09:16:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Additional two minutes.
09:16:10 >> It won't take that long.
09:16:11 Thank you though.
09:16:12 The emphasis is that this is an important link in the
09:16:18 transportation network.
09:16:20 It's not a bridge to nowhere.
09:16:21 It's a bridge to work.
09:16:23 It's a bridge to home.
09:16:25 It's a bridge to schools and churches and it's a bridge
09:16:29 to essential services.
09:16:31 And whether you're for or against the bridge, you need
09:16:33 to know that it's a vital part of the transportation
09:16:37 network that's been laid out for New Tampa for the past
09:16:40 20 years.
09:16:40 And that's before West Meadows was even developed.
09:16:45 Everyone knew that it was programmed for construction.
09:16:48 And some of us have bet the family farm that the city
09:16:53 would follow through and build the plan that has been
09:16:56 studied, approved, permitted, and funded.
09:17:01 We hope that you'll move forward and allow the bridge
09:17:07 to be built as planned.
09:17:10 Thank you.
09:17:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:17:12 Thank you very much.
09:17:12 No other public comment at this time, we'll move now to
09:17:19 the committee reports.
09:17:20 Safety committee, Councilwoman Miller.
09:17:26 >>GWEN MILLER: I move resolution one through seven.
09:17:28 >> Sec.
09:17:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
09:17:30 All in favor signify by saying aye.
09:17:33 Park and recreation, councilmember Stokes.
09:17:37 >>CURTIS STOKES: Like to move items 8 through 20
09:17:39 >> Second.
09:17:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me point out on item 10, 3.2 SLBE
09:17:44 and 8% WMBE on item ten.
09:17:48 All in favor signify by saying aye.
09:17:51 Public works, councilmember Miranda.
09:17:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move items 21 through 28, sir.
09:17:57 >> Second.
09:17:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second on item 25.
09:18:01 That is an SLBE contract.
09:18:04 Item 27, that's 46% WMBE on item 46.
09:18:09 Moved and second.
09:18:10 All in favor signify by saying aye.
09:18:13 Okay, building and zoning, Council Caetano.
09:18:16 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, I would like to move
09:18:18 items 35 to 56.
09:18:23 >> Second.
09:18:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
09:18:25 All in favor signify by saying aye.
09:18:28 Ms. Mulhern.
09:18:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: She did get elected.
09:18:40 [ Laughter ]
09:18:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You're right.
09:18:43 Finance committee councilmember Mulhern.
09:18:48 >>MARY MULHERN: I move items 29 and 30.
09:18:50 >> Second.
09:18:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.
09:18:57 And we have transportation Councilmember Capin.
09:19:01 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Excuse me one second here.
09:19:06 Thank you, Chairman.
09:19:09 I move items 57 through 62.
09:19:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?
09:19:16 >> Second.
09:19:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 59 is 14.7 WMBE participation and
09:19:22 then item 61, that's five percent SLBE.
09:19:25 Moved and second.
09:19:26 All in favor signify by saying aye.
09:19:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's go back to the finance committee.
09:19:38 Our report.
09:19:38 Thank you, Mr. Miranda for that, catching that error on
09:19:42 the finance committee.
09:19:43 We need to move the remaining of those items, 31
09:19:47 through 34.
09:19:48 >> So moved.
09:19:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
09:19:50 All in favor signify by saying aye.
09:19:53 All right.
09:19:56 Then we have our public hearings 9:30.
09:19:59 Not quite 9:30 yet.
09:20:01 We are running way ahead.
09:20:02 Let's take up new business.
09:20:06 By the way, ahead of schedule.
09:20:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay, Councilman Stokes?
09:20:23 >>CURTIS STOKES: No, sir.
09:20:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilmember Mulhern?
09:20:26 >>MARY MULHERN: I do.
09:20:27 But I'm not ready.
09:20:28 I'll have to bring it up later.
09:20:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The commendation that we mentioned
09:20:32 last meeting for Ms. Cindy Miller and Bonnie Wise, I'd
09:20:36 like to make them on the 24th of March this year.
09:20:39 If possible.
09:20:41 At whatever time's appropriate.
09:20:42 The appropriate time that's necessary on the agenda.
09:20:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We do them during the ceremony time.
09:20:49 Scheduled about 9:00, I believe.
09:20:52 Is there a second?
09:20:53 >> Second.
09:20:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
09:20:54 All in favor signify by saying aye.
09:20:55 Opposes? Councilmember Miller?
09:21:00 >>GWEN MILLER: None.
09:21:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilmember Capin?
09:21:03 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I'd like to make a motion to Diane
09:21:05 Seckar of the boy scout troop, or Dane Seckar with
09:21:12 commendation honoring him achieving the rank of Eagle
09:21:18 It will be presented at the Eagle Scout ceremony.
09:21:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
09:21:22 All in favor signify by saying aye.
09:21:23 Opposes? Councilmember Caetano?
09:21:26 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I have nothing, Mr. Chairman.
09:21:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We got through new business and still
09:21:30 have -- okay.
09:21:31 All these other items are basically have a scheduled
09:21:41 time that we have.
09:21:42 So we'll have to take them up at 9:00 30.
09:21:47 Still have about eight minutes.
09:21:53 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Chairman?
09:21:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
09:21:56 >>YVONNE CAPIN: May I call Ms. Vizzi back up?
09:21:59 I'd like to hear more, on what she just said this
09:22:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:22:03 Ms. Vizzi?
09:22:05 Counsel woman Capin wanted to hear something.
09:22:12 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Please repeat what you said this
09:22:15 >> I said that I think that during the hearing last
09:22:20 week on the alcoholic beverage regulations, there was a
09:22:25 little misunderstanding.
09:22:27 We were not trying to kill the whole ordinance.
09:22:32 But there were two issues that came up.
09:22:34 One was the request, judge Crumbley brought it up, for
09:22:40 a neighborhood -- I forget what you call it.
09:22:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:22:43 Let --
09:22:46 >> That's the problem.
09:22:46 It's public hearing later.
09:22:49 And it's not a public hearing, but I had only asked
09:22:52 that maybe Council would reopen it for more input so
09:22:56 that we could make, better explain.
09:23:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:23:01 Let's hear from our attorney.
09:23:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, this is regard to item 76,
09:23:07 which you know is here on a tie vote.
09:23:09 And Councilmember Stokes wasn't present.
09:23:13 My understanding today he is prepared to vote that is
09:23:16 presently set for 10:30.
09:23:21 And the unfortunate things as it stands now, because it
09:23:24 is a public hearing, it would be inappropriate to take
09:23:27 testimony outside the public hearing.
09:23:28 Granting it is legislative and not quasi-judicial.
09:23:32 But that still being the case, normally what happens,
09:23:34 the public hearing is closed.
09:23:35 If Council wishes to take additional information, you
09:23:39 would have to time when it's brought up, reopen the
09:23:41 public hearing, take additional testimony.
09:23:45 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Okay.
09:23:46 Thank you.
09:23:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We'll stand in recess for about five
09:23:49 Thank you.
09:23:50 Ism Tampa City Council will come to order.
09:35:33 Roll call.
09:35:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:35:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:35:41 >>CURTIS STOKES: Present.
09:35:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
09:35:43 We move now to our 9:30 items.
09:35:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to open.
09:35:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All the public hearings.
09:35:56 >> Second.
09:35:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
09:35:58 All in favor signify by saying aye.
09:36:02 We'll take up the first item, item 63.
09:36:09 >> Good morning, Ernest Mueller, assistant city
09:36:12 This is an amendment, ordinance for second reading.
09:36:16 Amending chapter 25-74 of the city code.
09:36:24 Want to let you know there are a few things going on
09:36:27 Most housekeeping.
09:36:28 However, the most significant thing going on, is
09:36:30 they're expanding the Ybor City no transportation
09:36:33 impact fee zone.
09:36:34 And Mr. Pardo is here to make a presentation on that.
09:36:37 However, I also want to let you know some other
09:36:40 housekeeping things going on in here.
09:36:43 There are two -- no transportation impact fee zones
09:36:46 that had expired, but were still in there.
09:36:49 They're the North Boulevard homes and the Tampa Heights
09:36:52 impact fee zones.
09:36:53 Those are being stricken as they had expired years ago.
09:36:56 We're putting in maps that are up to date with the,
09:37:01 which will reflect the three zones, which will be the
09:37:04 Ybor City zone, East Tampa zone, West Tampa zone.
09:37:08 We have changed tout legal descriptions to make sure
09:37:11 that the maps and the legal descriptions match up.
09:37:15 There's no intent to increase anything other than the
09:37:17 Ybor City zone.
09:37:18 And we did some rearranging to put things in proper
09:37:22 So that's all.
09:37:27 I'll turn it over to Mr. Pardo.
09:37:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public wish to address
09:37:36 >>GWEN MILLER: No, Mr. Pardo is going to speak.
09:37:38 Go ahead.
09:37:40 >> Make this as brief as Council would like.
09:37:43 Good morning.
09:37:45 Vince Pardo, Ybor development.
09:37:47 Really just give you, just going to reinforce what
09:37:53 Ernie was saying, as far as our ability to bring some
09:37:56 of these into play.
09:37:57 We go to the Elmo for a minute.
09:38:04 Just give you a perspective.
09:38:11 What you see here in large red is the, what has been
09:38:18 approved as the East Tampa transportation impact fee
09:38:22 waiver zone.
09:38:22 And towards the bottom, you'll see both the blue and
09:38:26 the green area, which we'll be zeroing in on today.
09:38:31 The scope of what has been approved in the past, has
09:38:33 been approved.
09:38:34 And is part of what Ernie tried to clean up as far as
09:38:38 some of the dates in here.
09:38:39 Up until the approval of this particular action today,
09:38:46 we had in the pink area, what is part of Ybor, around
09:38:50 the chairman American club and K-Force centers, in the
09:38:55 pink, that is part of the approval that was lushed in
09:39:00 with East Tampa.
09:39:01 We had separate approval tract for the blue area, which
09:39:04 is primarily Ybor one.
09:39:06 And Ybor two, the residential area in the green, on a
09:39:10 separate tract.
09:39:11 So we're trying to bring these things together because
09:39:13 of the way -- they came into play to the Council, and
09:39:16 the zone that is being approved now for Ybor, on the
09:39:23 Elmo, is this area, which does not include the part
09:39:27 that, around the German American club.
09:39:29 That is still part of East Tampa.
09:39:31 But it is reauthorizing, which I showed you earlier for
09:39:34 primarily Ybor one and Ybor two.
09:39:36 In looking at the analysis, the dark area to the right
09:39:39 is an expansion area.
09:39:40 Our CRA and historic district goes to 26th street.
09:39:44 That's where the lighter area stops.
09:39:46 Because of the crosstown connector coming in and the
09:39:49 way we know how transportation corridors like the
09:39:53 interstate divided Ybor City, even our own CRA, the
09:39:56 historic district goes up to Columbus drive.
09:39:59 But CRA boundaries when that discussion took place here
09:40:01 and with the county actually stops at the interstate,
09:40:05 kind of a national land barrier, if you will.
09:40:07 That expansion area, go back to the Elmo, actually
09:40:11 takes in a portion of the community referred to as
09:40:16 There is actually a historic marker there.
09:40:18 And it goes all the way over to the Crosstown
09:40:23 We are proposing this because of the impact of that
09:40:25 particular community on the surrounding Ybor community.
09:40:28 And there has been a significant amount of research
09:40:32 done as far as blight in that particular community.
09:40:37 No new developments since urban renewal and no
09:40:42 developments are planned.
09:40:43 We thought this would be an opportunity to help spark
09:40:45 development in that particular area as well to, as
09:40:48 assist right across the street from the new Ybor two
09:40:52 and Ybor park in that particular neighborhood.
09:40:54 Other areas, again, you have multitude of data on your
09:40:59 Will not go over that.
09:41:00 I think you're familiar with the concurrency area with
09:41:02 the enterprise zone, data that has been collected by
09:41:06 code enforcement and law enforcement in other areas.
09:41:09 The Gary area does in fact fit that, also as you're
09:41:12 probably aware, very industrial nature, such, much as
09:41:17 example of the southeastern portion of Ybor two.
09:41:21 So for that reason we request reauthorization and
09:41:24 again, I think the important thing that all of these
09:41:27 areas now will in fact expire concurrently on
09:41:30 October 22nd, 2015, to make it easier for staff and
09:41:36 Council for future approvals.
09:41:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone wish to address Council?
09:41:41 Public hearing, anyone wish to address Council?
09:41:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
09:41:45 >> Second.
09:41:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.
09:41:48 Councilmember Miranda?
09:41:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:41:51 Move an ordinance presented for second reading and
09:41:56 adoption, an ordinance of the City of Tampa, Florida
09:41:58 amending City of Tampa code section 25-74 A 6 to expand
09:42:03 Ybor City no transportation impact fee zone for portion
09:42:06 of Ybor City, as more particularly described in City of
09:42:08 Tampa code section 2574 A 6, providing for expiration
09:42:13 date for the expand Ybor City no transportation impact
09:42:15 fee zone, striking the legal description and zone
09:42:18 status provisions of the expired Tampa Heights zone and
09:42:21 the expired North Boulevard homes zone, replacing the
09:42:24 legal descriptions for the East Tampa and West Tampa no
09:42:27 transportation impact fee zones to insure accuracy of
09:42:31 the legal descriptions, interchanging the Ybor City and
09:42:34 East Tampa zone status provisions, replacing the maps
09:42:37 contained in appendix IV of chapter 25, providing for
09:42:43 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing for
09:42:46 severability, providing an effective date.
09:42:49 >> Second.
09:42:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
09:42:51 Record your vote please.
09:43:01 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Hasn't displayed yet.
09:43:03 >> I'm showing that motion carried.
09:43:06 With Mulhern and Caetano being absent.
09:43:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
09:43:12 Item 64.
09:43:16 Item 6 4.
09:43:19 >> Good morning, Council.
09:43:20 Catherine Coyle, zoning administrator.
09:43:22 Item 64 and 66, I have certified the site plans.
09:43:26 For second reading.
09:43:27 They did meet the conditions that were required by
09:43:29 Council at the first reading.
09:43:31 Item 65:00 we are asking to continue to April 14 at
09:43:34 6:00 p.m.
09:43:35 That's case could not be certified and there are some
09:43:37 amendments that are required for site plan.
09:43:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Which one was that?
09:43:42 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Item 65.
09:43:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 65 did not?
09:43:45 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Did not certify and we are asking to
09:43:47 continue, April 14, 6:00 p.m.
09:43:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: April 14.
09:43:51 Okay, let's swear the witnesses in.
09:43:54 Those going to be addressing Council, please stand and
09:43:57 be sworn at this time.
09:43:59 [Oath administered by Clerk]
09:44:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 64, anyone wish to address Council
09:44:19 on item 64?
09:44:21 Item 64.
09:44:22 Motion to close please.
09:44:25 >> So moved.
09:44:26 >> Second.
09:44:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
09:44:27 All in favor signify by saying aye.
09:44:28 Councilmember Stokes?
09:44:32 >> Did you want to speak to this?
09:44:34 >>CURTIS STOKES: Had a question.
09:44:34 When does this become certified?
09:44:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Talk to staff.
09:44:43 >> An ordinance being presented for second reading,
09:44:45 ordinance approving a special use permit S-2 for
09:44:48 alcoholic beverage sales, small venue making lawful the
09:44:51 sale of beverages containing --
09:44:54 >> Second.
09:44:54 >> -- alcohol regardless of alcoholic content, beer,
09:44:57 wine and liquor, 4(COP-R), for consumption on the
09:45:01 premises only in connection with a restaurant business
09:45:04 establishment at or from a certain lot, plot, tract of
09:45:07 land located at 401 East Jackson Street, suite 101,
09:45:11 Tampa, Florida, as more particularly described in
09:45:13 section 2 hereof, imposing certain conditions,
09:45:18 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict,
09:45:20 providing an effective date.
09:45:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Seconded by Councilman Miranda.
09:45:24 Record your vote please.
09:45:25 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Caetano and Mulhern
09:45:28 being absent.
09:45:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 65 needs to be continued, so we
09:45:33 need to -- anyone from the public wish to address
09:45:36 Council on item 65, on the continuance?
09:45:39 On item 65.
09:45:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move the continuance to April the
09:45:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
09:45:46 Second by Councilmember Stokes.
09:45:48 All in favor signify by saying aye.
09:45:53 Item 66.
09:45:55 Item 66.
09:45:57 Anyone here from the public wish to address Council on
09:45:59 item 66?
09:46:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
09:46:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
09:46:04 Fall favor signify by saying aye.
09:46:05 Councilmember Miller going to read item 66.
09:46:08 >>GWEN MILLER: I move to adopt the following ordinance
09:46:10 upon sec reading, an ordinance rezoning property in the
09:46:14 general vicinity of 7301, 7303, 7305, 7307, 7309, 7313,
09:46:22 7315, 7317, 7319, 7321, 7326, 7328, 7330, 733 2, 7334
09:46:33 south Trask Street in the City of Tampa, Florida, as
09:46:39 more particularly described in section one from zoning
09:46:41 district classification, PD, planned development,
09:46:45 residential single-family detached and single-family
09:46:48 attach too PD planned development, residential
09:46:50 single-family detached.
09:46:52 Providing an effective date.
09:46:54 >> Second.
09:46:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
09:46:56 Record your vote, please.
09:47:03 >>THE CLERK: I'm missing one vote.
09:47:09 >> Oh, excuse me.
09:47:15 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Caetano and Mulhern
09:47:18 being absent.
09:47:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
09:47:22 Item 67.
09:47:24 Item 67.
09:47:25 Anyone here wish to address Council on item 67?
09:47:28 Item 67.
09:47:29 Motion to close please.
09:47:31 >> So moved.
09:47:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
09:47:33 All in favor signify by saying aye.
09:47:34 Councilmember Capin?
09:47:37 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you, chairman.
09:47:39 Ordinance presented for second reading and adoption.
09:47:42 An ordinance vacating, closing, discontinuing and
09:47:44 abandoning a certain right-of-way portion of
09:47:47 25th street lying south of 25th avenue north of 23rd
09:47:50 avenue, east of Machado street, and west of
09:47:53 26th street, in Randall's revised subdivision of
09:47:58 Randall's subdivision number 2, a subdivision in the
09:48:01 City of Tampa Florida, the same being more fully
09:48:04 described in section 2 hereof, subject to certain
09:48:10 covenants, conditions and restrictions as more
09:48:12 particularly described herein, providing an effective
09:48:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
09:48:17 Second by Councilmember Miranda.
09:48:20 Record your votes, please.
09:48:26 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Caetano and Mulhern
09:48:28 being absent.
09:48:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 68.
09:48:31 Anyone here to address Council on item 68?
09:48:35 This is a continuing.
09:48:36 >>CATHERINE COYLE: If you recall, Council, you
09:48:38 continued this to run in alignment with the second
09:48:40 reading of the vacating.
09:48:41 Just to refresh your memory, this is the northern
09:48:44 portion of the vacated street here where the additional
09:48:50 terminal areas are for the expansion of the cemetery.
09:48:53 I did provide Mr. Shelby, which he'll provide to the
09:48:58 maker of the motion, a sample motion of how to read
09:49:00 this if you're so inclined to approve it.
09:49:03 There are two waivers which would need to be granted
09:49:05 which are included.
09:49:06 One for allowing vehicular access to a local street and
09:49:09 for allowing the interment at a six feet setback from
09:49:12 the northern zoning line.
09:49:14 In lieu of the 30 feet that's required.
09:49:15 It does note in the motion the site plan dated
09:49:19 December 7, 2010.
09:49:20 I do have those for the clerk upon your approval.
09:49:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone from the public wish to address
09:49:48 Anyone from the public wish to address Council?
09:49:52 >> Move to close.
09:49:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
09:49:55 All in favor signify by saying aye.
09:49:58 Councilmember Stokes, you want to read?
09:50:01 >>CURTIS STOKES: Thank you very much.
09:50:02 Motion to approve special use petition on review for
09:50:05 the property located at 2507 East 26th Avenue for
09:50:11 expansion of the existing L'Unione Italiana cemetery
09:50:16 pursuant to the site plan dated December 7, 2010 with
09:50:19 the granting of waivers for the specific use standards
09:50:22 under section 27-272 as follows.
09:50:26 Allow vehicular access to a local street as the site
09:50:29 does not have direct access to arterial or collector
09:50:32 street and allow interment at six foot setback from the
09:50:36 northern zoning lot line as the proposed interment is
09:50:39 not setback a minimum of 30 feet for the northern lot
09:50:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
09:50:46 Record your vote please.
09:50:47 Councilmember Miranda?
09:50:51 >>THE CLERK: There's no recording on this one.
09:50:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:50:53 Thank you.
09:50:54 All right.
09:50:54 Item 69.
09:51:06 >> I have a second.
09:51:07 But not a second reading.
09:51:09 Just a motion.
09:51:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
09:51:16 All in favor signify by saying aye.
09:51:17 Opposes? Okay.
09:51:19 >> Motion carried with Mulhern being absent.
09:51:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I thought that was running concurrent
09:51:24 with the prior motion.
09:51:25 >> It did.
09:51:26 But this is actually a review of the zoning
09:51:28 administrator's determination.
09:51:30 So it was actually something that just required a one
09:51:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:51:37 Just wanted to be clear.
09:51:38 Item 69.
09:51:40 Item 69.
09:51:41 Anyone from the public wish to address Council on item
09:51:49 Motion to close?
09:51:50 >> So moved.
09:51:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
09:51:52 All in favor signify by saying aye.
09:51:53 Councilmember Mulhern, you want to read item 69?
09:51:58 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:51:59 I move an ordinance being presented for second reading
09:52:02 and adoption, an ordinance of the City of Tampa,
09:52:04 Florida representing to the Tampa comprehensive plan
09:52:06 and concurrency regulations making comprehensive
09:52:09 revisions to City of Tampa code of ordinances, chapter
09:52:12 17.5, planning and land development, amending
09:52:16 article III, concurrency management system, repealing
09:52:20 all ordinances or parts of ordinances in conflict
09:52:22 therewith, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
09:52:25 conflict, providing an effective date.
09:52:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
09:52:28 Second by Councilmember Miranda.
09:52:31 Record your votes please.
09:52:40 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously on item 70.
09:52:43 You will need to do a voice roll call.
09:52:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 70, anyone from the public wish to
09:52:54 address Council on item 70?
09:52:56 Item 70.
09:52:57 >> Move to close.
09:52:58 >> Second.
09:52:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
09:53:00 All in favor signify by saying aye.
09:53:04 Councilmember Miranda, you want to read the ordinance?
09:53:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move an ordinance presented for
09:53:12 second reading and adoption, an ordinance of the City
09:53:14 of Tampa, Florida relating to the transportation
09:53:16 concurrency exception area regulations amending chapter
09:53:19 5, building code amending section 5-102.9, words
09:53:24 defined, amending chapter 25, transportation, amending
09:53:28 chapter 25-4, defining amendments section 25-6,
09:53:33 alternate the materials and methods of construction
09:53:36 regarding sections 25-11, application, repealing
09:53:39 chapter 25, article III, division 2, reserved for its
09:53:43 entirety, creating article III division 2
09:53:46 transportation impact analysis and mitigation,
09:53:50 repealing all ordinances or parts of ordinances in
09:53:50 conflict therewith, providing for severability,
09:53:53 providing an effective date.
09:53:55 >> Second.
09:53:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
09:53:58 We need a voice -- roll call.
09:54:01 Go ahead.
09:54:08 >>THE CLERK: Do roll call through the machine.
09:54:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Record your vote.
09:54:17 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
09:54:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
09:54:24 We're moving real fast today.
09:54:27 If we can -- the administration may want to come over
09:54:31 earlier, come over here now, since we are moving ahead,
09:54:35 so we can take up now item 71.
09:54:49 >> Good morning, chairman, Darrell Smith, the chief of
09:54:53 staff here to address item 71.
09:54:55 It's continued from our last discussion with regard to
09:54:59 the appropriate recognition for Reverend Madison
09:55:03 To recognize his 45 years of service as the pastor of
09:55:09 the 35th street Baptist church.
09:55:13 On our last discussion, we talked about the limitations
09:55:16 of using street renaming as a form of recognition.
09:55:21 And even when you use an honorarium street name as a
09:55:27 recognition, you create the potential for confusion on
09:55:31 the public and a potential public safety concern.
09:55:36 If a citizen in distress would happen to refer to the
09:55:40 honorary street name resident, the actual street name
09:55:43 is published on all the maps and addresses.
09:55:46 So, we went back to look at other alternatives to
09:55:51 recognize Reverend Murray.
09:55:54 And the administration would recommend Council consider
09:55:59 asking Reverend Murray to come before Council and
09:56:02 present him a plaque recognizing his 45 years of
09:56:06 service and his community service to the City of Tampa.
09:56:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Pleasure of Council?
09:56:19 Well, I move staff recommendation, administration
09:56:26 >> Second.
09:56:26 >>GWEN MILLER: Have a motion and a second.
09:56:27 All in favor of the motion, say aye.
09:56:30 Opposed nay.
09:56:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 72.
09:56:36 Actually, let's go to 73.
09:56:41 We'll take up 72 after 73.
09:56:44 Let me just, before Mr. Smith -- I think most of us
09:56:55 just got the report this morning.
09:56:57 So we haven't had a chance to review or see this at
09:56:59 all, Mr. Smith.
09:57:00 We just got it, what time?
09:57:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: When I came in this morning, I
09:57:07 received it.
09:57:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We haven't had a chance to review it at
09:57:09 all because we just got it when I came in this morning.
09:57:15 >> Good morning again, Chairman Scott, Darrell Smith,
09:57:17 chief of staff.
09:57:19 Here with other members of the water task force to
09:57:23 provide the report of our activities during the last 45
09:57:28 I will acknowledge that due to time constraints, we
09:57:32 were unable to pre-brief Councilmembers.
09:57:38 And in fact we were unable to provide the report to you
09:57:40 earlier than this morning.
09:57:42 Apologize for that.
09:57:44 But I think you can see from the report it's a very
09:57:50 comprehensive report that has been very challenging and
09:57:54 very complex as far as the areas that have been under
09:57:59 And we were unable to have enough lead time in order to
09:58:03 pre-brief Council and provide the report.
09:58:07 We'll, however, be available to meet with
09:58:09 Councilmembers this afternoon or next week to go over
09:58:12 the report.
09:58:14 The reports from the task force, the report from the
09:58:18 auditors, the PowerPoint presentation, and the other
09:58:24 documents relating to those as far as the attachments
09:58:27 will be posted on the city web site after noon today.
09:58:31 And will be available as far as hard copies after the
09:58:34 Council meeting this morning.
09:58:36 For anyone that would like additional copies.
09:58:39 The PowerPoint presentation, please.
09:58:43 What we're going to look at today is the background
09:58:51 behind what's precipitated the task force, the scope of
09:58:57 the task force work, the internal audit report findings
09:59:01 and conclusions, and the water task force report,
09:59:06 contributing factors that were identified and analyzed.
09:59:09 And the recommendations that came out of the water task
09:59:12 force itself, along with the concluding remarks.
09:59:17 As far as background, many Tampa water customers
09:59:23 received utility bills in January and February of 2011.
09:59:28 That reflected a very high usage of water and a
09:59:33 commensurate high bill as far as the cost.
09:59:36 Customer complaints about the unusually high bills
09:59:41 raised concerns about the city's water meter reading
09:59:44 and utility billing processes.
09:59:47 An analysis of the complaints concluded there were many
09:59:51 different factors that could have contributed to the
09:59:54 high bills.
09:59:54 As the number of complaints increased, the mayor
09:59:58 established the water task force to look at service
10:00:05 level improvements within the water department.
10:00:07 The water task force included the departments and
10:00:13 individuals shown on this slide, and many other staff
10:00:18 support participants from each of the departments that
10:00:21 participated in the task force.
10:00:24 I say again that it was a very complex undertaking, and
10:00:29 that all of the sections that participated did an
10:00:36 outstanding job of providing information, providing
10:00:38 research and providing inputs to the task force.
10:00:41 The scope of the task force was to identify
10:00:46 deficiencies and provide recommendations for service
10:00:49 level improvements and the water meter reading area,
10:00:55 the water meter maintenance, utility billing and
10:00:59 customer service functions within the water department.
10:01:03 The task force was divided into two categories.
10:01:09 The entire task force examined the deficiencies and
10:01:14 made recommendations for improvements for the future.
10:01:16 And I say the entire task force, meaning, including the
10:01:20 internal audit department.
10:01:23 Throughout the task force operation for the biweekly
10:01:28 meetings, or the twice a week meetings that we had, two
10:01:31 members of the internal audit department participated
10:01:35 in those meetings.
10:01:37 And the internal audit department director was working
10:01:41 the internal audit portion of the task force separately
10:01:46 from the main task force.
10:01:47 The task force provided information to the auditors,
10:01:52 and provided the results of research as needed and as
10:01:55 requested by the audit department.
10:01:57 But the audit department was independently responsible
10:02:02 for verifying the accuracy of the task force results
10:02:07 and the results from the study.
10:02:10 As you see, they have provided a separate interim audit
10:02:16 report outlining their recommendations and findings.
10:02:21 At this point, I'd like to introduce our internal audit
10:02:25 director, Roger Strout, to provide the results of the
10:02:31 internal audit report.
10:02:34 >> Thank you, Darrell.
10:02:35 Good morning, honorable City Council members.
10:02:38 It's a privilege to be here this morning, to discuss
10:02:41 with you the results of our audit work.
10:02:44 And Darrell is correct, we did perform our audit
10:02:47 We did attend their meetings to review the progress
10:02:51 they were making, but all of our audit procedures were
10:02:54 done independently by our audit staff.
10:02:56 The interim report is being released today, because we
10:03:01 still have one more step to do.
10:03:03 And that is to get management's responses into our
10:03:08 Once we have those responses, we'll be releasing our
10:03:11 final report.
10:03:11 However, we have reviewed our report with the
10:03:14 supervisors in the water department to gain their
10:03:17 concurrence in vetting all of the items that we have
10:03:20 So, in addition to this PowerPoint that you're looking
10:03:25 at this morning, you should have in your hands or have
10:03:27 received today a copy of our audit report in its
10:03:30 standard format.
10:03:31 First thing I want to do is talk about the terrific
10:03:36 team of auditors we have here at the City of Tampa.
10:03:38 If you look at the slide, you'll see all of our
10:03:41 auditors have multiple credentials.
10:03:44 15 in all, from certified internal auditors to
10:03:47 certified public accountants, certified government
10:03:50 auditing professional, certified fraud examiners,
10:03:54 satisfied internal control officers, MBAs and a
10:03:58 certified financial forensic auditor.
10:04:01 So we really have a grit team and we did operate
10:04:03 independently as we conducted this audit.
10:04:05 Let me first talk about the five objectives.
10:04:09 First objective was verify that the meter readings
10:04:12 entered into the handheld meter reading devices were
10:04:17 accurately recorded into the city's billing system.
10:04:20 And that the billing calculations were accurate.
10:04:22 Our second objective was to verify that a statistical
10:04:27 sample of water meters were functioning correctly and
10:04:30 Our third objective was to review and evaluate the
10:04:34 processes for identifying and resolving exceptions.
10:04:37 Our fourth objective was to ensure the adequacy of
10:04:42 complaint -- apologize for being a little behind on the
10:04:48 Our fourth objective was to ensure the adequacy of
10:04:51 complaint investigations, that they were supported and
10:04:54 And then our fifth objective, which we added after the
10:04:58 mayor issued that initial letter on the objectives of
10:05:01 the task force, because we wanted to be sure that we
10:05:03 evaluated the meter reading processes.
10:05:05 And looked at them for efficiency, accuracy and
10:05:10 Those were our five objectives.
10:05:12 Next I'm going to talk about our audit procedures.
10:05:15 Just so you'll understand some of the actual field work
10:05:18 we did.
10:05:18 Not going to go into all our procedures, because we'd
10:05:21 be here quite a lengthy period.
10:05:23 So I'm going to briefly talk about some of the more
10:05:26 important procedures so you know how we arrived at our
10:05:29 Team selected 60-meter readings and traced them from
10:05:33 their rating system.
10:05:35 The handheld device that is the meter readers use when
10:05:39 walking their routes.
10:05:40 And they input the meter readings that they observe on
10:05:43 the meters into this meter reading device.
10:05:45 It's called the Radix system.
10:05:50 We rated it, the multiple service system.
10:05:56 Then the audit department independently recalculated
10:05:59 all the calculations outside of the system, taking into
10:06:03 account the different tiers.
10:06:04 So that we could verify the accuracy of the billings.
10:06:07 And we found all 60 to be accurate without exception.
10:06:13 Our second procedure was really to look at the water
10:06:16 that was going through the meters, was it being
10:06:19 measured accurately?
10:06:21 The accuracy of the water meters was tested by running
10:06:24 seven and a half gallons of water from an outside
10:06:27 Typically a spigot on the side of the house.
10:06:30 And typical sample of 60 residential and commercial
10:06:37 Accuracy was calculated using the relative position of
10:06:40 the meter sweep hand.
10:06:41 Ton next slide, I'm going to show you a picture of that
10:06:45 meter sweep hand.
10:06:47 Keep in mind we called each customer to make sure we
10:06:50 had their permission to go on their property and do
10:06:52 this testing and to draw seven and a half gallons of
10:06:56 And we did this by using two-person teams.
10:06:59 We had two auditors, who would actually measure the
10:07:02 quantity that was coming from the spigot while the
10:07:05 other auditor observed the movement of the meter.
10:07:08 And then if you look at the next slide, you'll see a
10:07:12 picture of the actual meter itself.
10:07:15 We reviewed and evaluated the department's processes
10:07:22 for identifying and resolving exceptions.
10:07:25 Detailed and system reports.
10:07:27 We reviewed 42 high bill investigation files, because
10:07:32 we wanted to be sure that all the documentation was
10:07:35 there to support the adjustments, if any were made.
10:07:38 And that the investigations were thorough and the
10:07:41 documents were retained that needed to be in the files.
10:07:44 We interviewed 11-meter readers.
10:07:50 Those are the current number of meter readers that are
10:07:52 doing readings.
10:07:53 Plus we interviewed two water service attendants, who
10:07:57 were substituting and fill in as meter readers, to help
10:08:00 them get through the large amount of re-reads and
10:08:03 investigations that are going on.
10:08:04 And then we interviewed four water department
10:08:07 supervisors, both in the meter reading area and the
10:08:10 billing section.
10:08:11 We wanted to make sure that we had all the information
10:08:13 we needed.
10:08:14 So I participated in each of those interviews.
10:08:18 We analyzed the meter readers' time between reads and
10:08:21 the total reads per day.
10:08:22 As well as identified meter readers associated with the
10:08:26 high bills.
10:08:27 And look for trends.
10:08:28 We thought it was important that we look at all of the
10:08:30 high bills and look at the meter readers who actually
10:08:33 took the meter readings for the course of the year on
10:08:36 those high bills and see if there are any trends.
10:08:39 Now let me briefly discuss our findings.
10:08:42 Our first finding is, there was quite a delay, quite a
10:08:48 delay between when the meters were read and when the
10:08:53 billing system was designed for them to be read.
10:08:55 Our billing system is designed for the meters to be
10:08:58 read every 60 to 62 days.
10:09:00 Depending on if you had two months back-to-back that
10:09:03 were 31 days, then you have a 62 day period.
10:09:05 If there is a month with 30 days and a 31, you'd have
10:09:09 the 61 day period.
10:09:10 What we found is there was quite a delay in the reading
10:09:13 of meters and the delays ranged anywhere from 63 to 73
10:09:19 It's a total time span of 63 to 73 days.
10:09:22 For bimonthly accounts.
10:09:24 The results of the billing cycles exceeding 62 days for
10:09:31 two months was to increase the volume of water that was
10:09:34 included in the bill.
10:09:36 And for some users, caused the additional days to push
10:09:39 them into higher tiers.
10:09:41 The reason is because the tiers are designed for 30 day
10:09:45 And on a 60 day read, because the middle month is
10:09:49 estimated, you have two in the case of the first tier,
10:09:53 five CCFs or a total tier of ten.
10:09:57 Problem is when you go beyond that 60 days, in theory
10:10:00 you should prorate those additional lower tiers to the
10:10:04 additional days.
10:10:05 Of course no proration is built into our system.
10:10:08 You get the tier designed for the 60 days, whether your
10:10:11 water is stretched out over 60 or 70 days.
10:10:14 So this results in more water being in that 60 day
10:10:16 period, even though -- because it did go to 70 plus
10:10:21 And it pushes the high users into higher tiers because
10:10:25 that additional 10 to 15 days is billed at the highest
10:10:29 tier that's appropriate for them.
10:10:31 I realize it's kind of complex and I'll be happy to
10:10:36 answer questions later.
10:10:38 If you look at the slides we have attached, you can get
10:10:40 a feel for the amount of readings that were over 60
10:10:44 The first column shows 101,000 readings, actually
10:10:49 101,000 readings that were over 60 days.
10:10:52 But it was 63 or 64, which is understandable.
10:10:55 If a meter reading cycle came up on a Saturday, you'd
10:10:58 probably read it on the next Monday, or maybe the
10:11:00 Friday before.
10:11:01 So you'd expect some deviation from the 60 to 62 day
10:11:06 However, we found that we are almost 60,000 readings
10:11:11 that were over 65 days, in the period 65 to 69.
10:11:14 And then the most extreme situation, you'd see some
10:11:17 that were in the 70 day periods.
10:11:19 And we saw 45, approximately 41,000 of those.
10:11:23 What we want to do is give you some context for that.
10:11:27 In the period of our view, there were 950,000 readings
10:11:32 So if you look at the percentage, it's about 20% were
10:11:36 But with the number of complaints that have come into
10:11:38 the high bills, it's just one contributing factor.
10:11:41 It's not the only factor.
10:11:42 And as a matter of fact, if you looked at someone's
10:11:45 bill who doubled or tripled, this really wouldn't
10:11:48 explain someone's bill tripling.
10:11:50 It would only explain that a person's bill was
10:11:52 approximately, could be 20% higher than normal.
10:11:55 So someone who had a $300 bill that got a $400 bill,
10:12:00 that would be because of the delays in the readings,
10:12:02 not necessarily for anything else.
10:12:03 Let me show you the second slide and you can see the
10:12:08 time period when these delays frequently occurred.
10:12:11 December and January this year, there were 35,000
10:12:16 delayed readings.
10:12:18 In December.
10:12:18 And 54,000 in January.
10:12:20 If you look back to the first January on the chart, in
10:12:26 2010, you'll see that we had the same phenomenon.
10:12:34 It was just greater this year.
10:12:37 We found that the multiservice system dropout reports.
10:12:40 And let me tell you, if you haven't heard the dropout
10:12:43 reports, it's the reports that captures the meter
10:12:46 readings that are out of range of what was expected.
10:12:49 Typically, you'd expect there to be some variation in a
10:12:53 person's meter reading based on their usage.
10:12:56 But parameters were set and designed to identify the
10:12:58 ones that were clearly far outside the reasonable
10:13:01 The parameter that was set before, when we began our
10:13:06 audit was four times their normal usage, plus 25 CCF.
10:13:10 So that a person would have to have used four times the
10:13:14 expected amount, plus 25 CCF before it got on to this
10:13:19 dropout report.
10:13:20 And the dropout report would then be examined and
10:13:23 determined which meters need to be re-read.
10:13:25 It's a pretty wide parameter.
10:13:28 Since then they've reduced it to three times the
10:13:30 expected usage, plus 25 CCF.
10:13:33 Still, a very wide range of readings that could be
10:13:38 acceptable for an individual account.
10:13:39 For sample of 60 potentially misread accounts, because
10:13:44 if they appear on this dropout report, they potentially
10:13:47 could be misread because they're greater than three
10:13:49 times the normal expected usage.
10:13:53 We identified 31 accounts that were identified to be
10:13:57 And we have got an analysis on the next slide for that.
10:14:01 Of those 31 that were indicated to be re-read, 19
10:14:06 accounts averaged 13 days elapsed after the requested
10:14:10 date for the re-read.
10:14:11 We found six accounts where the re-read was provided
10:14:16 but it wasn't entered into the billing system.
10:14:18 And we found two accounts where the reading was not
10:14:21 dated by the field technician.
10:14:23 Meter readers were not consistently logging their
10:14:32 identifiers into the handheld devices.
10:14:35 That's the Radix device.
10:14:38 That presented a major challenge because when we were
10:14:41 trying to analyze the data, it is important to know
10:14:45 which meter reader read that.
10:14:48 There was a system glitch.
10:14:51 I call it a glitch.
10:14:52 There was system issue, if their name was longer than
10:14:55 five characters, they put their name in field for their
10:14:58 name, when it was transferred to the MSS system, was
10:15:02 longer than five, the MSS system wouldn't accept that
10:15:05 and changed it to asterisks.
10:15:07 So we had a lot of meter readings that had asterisk in
10:15:11 the name field.
10:15:12 Which required us to work with the supervisors to
10:15:15 identify who actually read that reading on that day.
10:15:17 And they were very helpful.
10:15:19 They went through their records and found which meter
10:15:22 reader read which route.
10:15:24 But it was very time consuming task.
10:15:26 We want to thank them for the help.
10:15:28 The manual documentation supporting route assignments,
10:15:33 which is what they provided to help us identify the
10:15:35 meter reader.
10:15:36 We think could be improved.
10:15:38 It's paper-based right now, where they write down, in
10:15:41 pencil the routes that the reader actually reads.
10:15:44 And we think the system application could help them.
10:15:46 Meter readers are not rotated.
10:15:49 Currently, they, or previously, they had been allowed
10:15:52 to read the same route over and over.
10:15:54 There wasn't any mandated rotation of meter readers.
10:15:57 We think it's a good internal control practice to have
10:16:01 the meter readers read different routes.
10:16:03 So they've got a different set of eyes looking at those
10:16:06 readings from time to time.
10:16:07 And we check with the Hillsborough water department,
10:16:10 the county, and they actually do rotate their readers
10:16:13 on a monthly basis.
10:16:15 Meter reader route sheets, when the meter reader goes
10:16:24 off to read their route, in addition to their handheld,
10:16:27 they have a paper sheet, a printout of their entire
10:16:29 route for the day, with each individual account that
10:16:31 they are to read.
10:16:32 And it shows them the addresses and they proceed on to
10:16:36 collect their readings using their handheld, but the
10:16:39 paper sheet is there in case their handheld fails for
10:16:42 some reason, they can write down the readings on the
10:16:45 paper sheets.
10:16:46 These sheets were not collected at the end of the
10:16:49 We also found that the paper sheets were used to
10:16:51 collect readings when they would have another meter
10:16:54 reader helping.
10:16:56 Say one was falling behind and needed help to finish
10:16:58 the route.
10:16:59 If they sent out another reader to assist them, one
10:17:03 would use the handheld, the other would take the paper
10:17:05 sheet and record those readings for that day.
10:17:07 What that did is provided for neater readers who
10:17:10 retained them, a record of what the history had been on
10:17:13 those accounts.
10:17:14 And we think that's a weakness that should be
10:17:17 And that those sheets should be collected by the meter
10:17:19 reading department at the end of each day.
10:17:22 Our customer service representatives did not always
10:17:25 document average customer usages when they would do an
10:17:29 override of a pending reading.
10:17:31 We think it's important for internal controls to have
10:17:33 an audit trail documentation of how you came up with
10:17:37 the reading that you estimated and why that was used
10:17:40 instead of the reading.
10:17:42 We think that audit trail is important.
10:17:44 Required field rereads.
10:17:47 When the dropout report indicates, as I mentioned our
10:17:50 sample of those 31 that needed to be re-read, of actual
10:17:54 printout is used.
10:17:55 The meter reader does not use his handheld to re-read
10:17:59 the accounts.
10:18:01 They use a paper sheet, and that has the readings that
10:18:03 was taken, either day before or week before, depending
10:18:06 on how soon that they get to do the rereads.
10:18:08 And that she'd has all the readings on that sheet.
10:18:12 I mean for those meters that were read.
10:18:14 And they were required to fill in a blank next to it
10:18:17 for the reading they actually got.
10:18:20 Internal control opportunity we think to eliminate
10:18:23 having the reader have access to what the last reading
10:18:27 Similar in inventory practices.
10:18:29 If you were going to have someone do an inventory, you
10:18:33 wouldn't want your inventory takers to know exactly how
10:18:36 many quantities were supposed to be on each shelf.
10:18:39 The meter readers should not know what the reading is
10:18:42 expected to be, or was read when they go out to read.
10:18:46 They should be independently taking that information
10:18:49 without any pre-notice of what it was.
10:18:55 Documentation to support resolution of high bill
10:19:01 complaints was reviewed for a sample of 33 complaints
10:19:07 We found 16 were missing one or more of the following.
10:19:12 Either the initial complaint or high bill investigation
10:19:15 Or the receipt from the customer indicating they had
10:19:17 actually purchased or paid for leak repair.
10:19:20 Or an evaluation by the billing section.
10:19:22 We realize this high bill investigation team is a new
10:19:27 team and that they have some growing pains and that
10:19:29 they're not a mature process yet.
10:19:31 We think they can improve their processes.
10:19:34 And they have been very eager to listen to our
10:19:37 recommendations and to improve their procedures so they
10:19:40 have all the documentation they needed in one place.
10:19:43 We believe monthly meter reading would improve the
10:19:49 meter process.
10:19:50 Help defector errors sooner, would help detect serve
10:19:56 issues sooner and would provide more consistent
10:19:59 billings to customers.
10:20:00 They would avoid the estimated reading in between.
10:20:03 So we believe that monthly meter reading would be a far
10:20:06 better way to approach this problem.
10:20:08 Staffing levels need to be analyzed to ensure routes
10:20:12 and cycles are completed and read on time.
10:20:16 And support timely billing.
10:20:17 We also believe meter box maintenance was an issue.
10:20:21 A number of the boxes that we looked at, I looked at,
10:20:26 my staff looked at, were just absolutely packed in with
10:20:28 dirt and leafs.
10:20:30 Layers and layers of dirt.
10:20:31 And we wondered how can they read these accurately?
10:20:34 For them to have to dig all the debris away from the
10:20:38 meter head every time they read it is not efficient.
10:20:41 We recommend that a maintenance program be instituted
10:20:43 to keep the meter boxes clean and accessible.
10:20:46 Finally, monitoring reports, which summarize service
10:20:55 orders in age format we think would help management
10:20:59 understand where their back lotion are.
10:21:01 We believe that requests for meter readers to re-read
10:21:04 meters should be aged so that they know how many are 24
10:21:08 hours old, 48 hours, 72 hours old, etcetera, so that
10:21:12 they can escalate the ones that are really behind and
10:21:15 get them attention right away.
10:21:17 We also believe requests for meter repairs should be
10:21:20 reported in an age format, to help them identify stale
10:21:23 work orders that need attention.
10:21:28 We recommend they work with the T and I group so they
10:21:32 can monitor these.
10:21:33 Because really, you can't manage things if you don't
10:21:36 And when you keep agings, that's a form of measuring
10:21:40 how you're doing.
10:21:41 And we believe agings would serve internal control.
10:21:45 Finally our audit conclusions and our typical reports,
10:21:49 as you probably noticed, were each objective we have a
10:21:52 I'm going to briefly walk through those.
10:21:54 Sorry, got behind again.
10:21:59 First, our meter readings entered in handheld meter
10:22:03 reading equipment were accurately recorded in the
10:22:05 multiservice system.
10:22:06 The system calculated customer usage and billing
10:22:10 However, the time between the readings exceeded 62
10:22:14 days, 21% of the time.
10:22:16 And that we feel this should be corrected.
10:22:21 However, did I want to point out it was during the
10:22:25 holiday season when that really large delay occurred in
10:22:29 December, and there were a number of people on
10:22:31 For objective number two, a statistical sample of 60
10:22:36 water meters was tested.
10:22:38 58 were found to be accurately recording water usage.
10:22:41 Two of the meters were not working and not recording
10:22:45 Those wouldn't have created a high bill, but they were
10:22:49 loss revenue for the city.
10:22:51 For objective three, processes for identifying and
10:22:54 resolving exceptions in detailed and system reports
10:22:58 needs improvement.
10:22:59 Prevent high bills from being generated to customers.
10:23:02 And for objective four, complaint investigation,
10:23:10 documentation needs improvement.
10:23:13 Again, as we mentioned, there are some growing pains.
10:23:15 This team needs to improve their desk procedures so
10:23:18 they have all their documentation on hand.
10:23:20 And -- objective five, while we found no conclusive
10:23:26 evidence indicating meters were not being read, the
10:23:28 control environment over meter reading activities needs
10:23:31 to be strengthened.
10:23:32 And the efficiency of reading the routes should be
10:23:35 improved as well.
10:23:36 A route optimization program would be in order.
10:23:41 Again, just to summarize, rotating meter readers
10:23:45 assignments, eliminating access to prior reads need to
10:23:50 be improved.
10:23:51 We'll schedule a followup audit in 2012 to examine how
10:23:54 the water department is doing on these individual
10:23:58 And I just want to mention a couple minor things that
10:24:01 aren't in here.
10:24:02 We recommended they strengthen their access controls
10:24:06 over the rating system.
10:24:08 We also recommended they provide metal detectors for
10:24:11 the meter readers.
10:24:13 When they can't find the box, some of our team had a
10:24:16 hard time to find a meter box.
10:24:18 We had to call in assistance.
10:24:20 Rather than have a separate reactive vehicle and person
10:24:22 go out with a metal detector to find the meter box, it
10:24:26 would be more efficient to have the meter readers have
10:24:28 a metal detector with them.
10:24:31 Finally, consider cell phones for the meter readers.
10:24:34 Currently they use personal cell phones to call into
10:24:36 the office when they see a serious leak or problem.
10:24:39 For safety issues, since they park their truck and walk
10:24:42 extensively through different neighborhoods if one was
10:24:44 hurt or injured, it would seem to make sense for them
10:24:47 to have a cell phone to be able to call in and report
10:24:50 the issue.
10:24:50 Additionally, with GPS-equipped cell phone, management
10:24:57 could know where the meter readers were at all times.
10:25:00 And that concludes my report for this morning.
10:25:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilmember Miranda, then
10:25:07 Councilmember Mulhern.
10:25:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: First of all, I'm not prepared to
10:25:09 even discuss this item because I just received it this
10:25:12 Like myself, I guess I can say that my colleagues are
10:25:15 not really prepared to speak on this because we just
10:25:17 received it.
10:25:19 I haven't even read it.
10:25:20 And I don't like to discuss things I've never read.
10:25:22 That's number one.
10:25:23 Number two, any time you did an audit with accuracy,
10:25:26 and I appreciate the work that you've done here, you've
10:25:29 always had an exit conference with your clients.
10:25:31 Your clients in this case are the seven members you're
10:25:34 looking at now.
10:25:35 Like did you with a Lowry Park Zoo, that was never done
10:25:38 in this case.
10:25:39 I'm not happy about that at all.
10:25:41 Not to you, to the whole system.
10:25:43 I'm not directly speaking to you, want to you
10:25:44 understand this.
10:25:45 Second of all, when you say that 20 some percent of
10:25:52 bills were not read accurately or delayed of the cost,
10:25:56 from 63 to 73 days, whatever the figure, that's one
10:26:00 tenth of the total water bill.
10:26:01 That should not be an excessive bills in the thousands
10:26:05 of dollars like we have had recorded.
10:26:06 So that I don't find very interesting to me because
10:26:09 that's full of bullets.
10:26:10 On page 15, I'm just going on this and findings on
10:26:14 number five, although the water department task force
10:26:17 found no evidence that meter readers were skipping
10:26:19 meters or periodically using estimates are rather than
10:26:22 actual read, it is possible that an unexplained high
10:26:25 water reading could be caused by a quote unquote by
10:26:30 catch-up read situation.
10:26:32 So you're telling me there were none, and then on the
10:26:35 other hand you're telling me there's a possibility that
10:26:37 there were.
10:26:38 Because the last five or six words said catch-up
10:26:42 reading situation.
10:26:43 Then we go, and this I just got, like I said, I haven't
10:26:49 even read it.
10:26:50 99% of something is something else.
10:26:54 I'll take that for face value.
10:26:57 But when I look at that, what does that mean?
10:27:00 That 2,000 meters might have been not read at all?
10:27:04 Of 99.
10:27:06 I guess is something close to one and a half percent or
10:27:09 I can also say that when I look at this, I find that we
10:27:16 solve everything by a maintenance triage team.
10:27:19 That's not going to happen with me, or by a high water
10:27:23 investigation team of or by team, team, team.
10:27:27 What do we mean by all that?
10:27:30 We had a system in place that was flawed.
10:27:32 And again, I apologize to you for not being able to
10:27:35 read this doubt, but as I point here -- thank God I ran
10:27:39 out of pens.
10:27:40 But I look at your 2010 water usage three times, five
10:27:43 times and ten times, and I compare it to the 2009 water
10:27:47 usage of three times, five times, ten times, and I
10:27:50 compare with the 2008 water use exceeding five times
10:27:53 and ten times, and just looking at the dots, I come up
10:28:00 that this situation has been going on for years,
10:28:02 because your dots reflect that.
10:28:04 Am I correct?
10:28:07 >> I think you're referring to the task force report.
10:28:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm reading this off your record.
10:28:12 Residentials exceeding usage accounts.
10:28:14 Of course, I'm reading this I tell myself, how long has
10:28:18 this been going on?
10:28:20 Have we done this how much water was produced?
10:28:23 How much water was sold?
10:28:26 To the actual accounts of all aggregate sales.
10:28:30 How much was lost in the recording of eight, nine
10:28:34 percent for leaking pipes?
10:28:37 Does it balance out?
10:28:38 That's what we want to know.
10:28:40 If you produce 90 million gallons of water, do you
10:28:44 account for 70?
10:28:46 Or do you account for the 90?
10:28:48 Minus the leakage that we know we have.
10:28:51 So what I'm saying is, those -- those are intricate
10:28:57 systems I don't understand.
10:28:58 I don't be apologetic, because none of us have read
10:29:02 this thing.
10:29:03 It's not the right thing to do.
10:29:04 As late as yesterday, as late as yesterday, my office
10:29:09 had calls that exceeded people waiting on the line, 30
10:29:12 to 40 minutes.
10:29:13 To get to the water department.
10:29:17 That's not acceptable.
10:29:18 If we have known this, this didn't come to light, as
10:29:23 you reflected in this thing until November, December.
10:29:26 This was not under the water department and I'm not
10:29:29 blaming them or anyone else.
10:29:31 But this has been an existing problem that exploded
10:29:35 after this water department took this division over.
10:29:37 That bothers me a lot because, if I count the dots in
10:29:42 2008, by eyes, not figuratively, and 2009 and 2010, the
10:29:48 dots might have shifted.
10:29:50 But they're the same amount of dots.
10:29:52 So, there's something wrong in the system.
10:29:55 And again, I've never read this, I've never discussed
10:29:58 it with anybody.
10:29:59 And we are supposed to pass judgment on something we
10:30:01 have never read.
10:30:02 I mean, I can go on page 19, some things I just marked
10:30:08 down, but I'll be shooting in the dark and that's not
10:30:11 my style.
10:30:12 I like to really read this thing.
10:30:14 And understand what I'm reading.
10:30:16 Right now, I don't like to take pot shots, I don't
10:30:19 think I'm taking a pot shot now.
10:30:21 But what I like to do is get to the bottom of this, how
10:30:24 do we fix it?
10:30:25 How do we do it?
10:30:26 I don't want no more teams.
10:30:27 I don't need somebody cleaning water meters.
10:30:30 I don't need that.
10:30:31 I need somebody taking the time to do it right.
10:30:34 I can also tell you that I got photographs that I
10:30:36 personally took of a water meter reading a meter, on
10:30:41 Ashley and Zach, one of them streets, that individual
10:30:45 could be possibly making a mistake.
10:30:47 You know why?
10:30:48 He's holding his hat up with his other hand,
10:30:52 tippy-toes, looking down at a meter about two, two and
10:30:55 a half feet away from him and on the other hand
10:30:58 punching numbers into a gadget.
10:30:59 When I saw that I took the camera out and took the
10:31:03 I'm telling myself, huh?
10:31:05 You got to be Superman eyes to read that.
10:31:08 And then you're not looking, you're just punching.
10:31:11 So I'm telling myself, how can this be accurate?
10:31:14 In my own case, I would assume that's a city meter.
10:31:18 So I'm telling myself, why don't they have kneepads so
10:31:21 they can really go down and look at the meet senator I
10:31:23 don't understand the whole system.
10:31:25 I'm not here to throw rocks at you or anybody else in
10:31:28 the administration.
10:31:29 I just want it fixed.
10:31:30 There's no answer for the fix.
10:31:32 All I see here is teams and we're going to do this and
10:31:35 we're going to have another team.
10:31:37 We're going to have a meter clean.
10:31:39 Listen, if I got an individual reading meters and they
10:31:42 can't dust the meter, I don't need that individual.
10:31:45 I don't need an individual saying, look, I finish three
10:31:49 and a half hours a job I'm supposed to do in eight.
10:31:51 I don't need that individual.
10:31:52 I'm not saying that's going on.
10:31:54 But it could be going on.
10:31:55 I need an individual who is going to do it right the
10:31:58 first time.
10:31:59 I'm not going to hire somebody to make sure it was
10:32:01 right the second time.
10:32:02 I don't do it that way.
10:32:03 Let that be clearly said.
10:32:06 I don't know if that's in to report because I've never
10:32:09 read it.
10:32:09 I don't know what your conclusions are in fact because
10:32:12 I've never read it.
10:32:13 And that bothers me that I've never read anything and
10:32:16 I'm speaking about it.
10:32:17 Makes me look silly, because I never read it.
10:32:20 Mr. Chairman, I yield the floor.
10:32:23 >> Chairman Scott, if I may?
10:32:26 If we could continue the rest of the presentation, we
10:32:28 might be able to answer a lot of the questions that
10:32:30 will come up later on.
10:32:33 We're about halfway through the presentation at this
10:32:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:32:41 Councilmember Mulhern?
10:32:43 >>MARY MULHERN: We thought that presentation was over,
10:32:46 but I wanted to suggest before the presentation, since
10:32:54 we haven't been able to look at this, that we continue
10:32:58 this to next week.
10:32:59 So maybe you could finish your presentation next week.
10:33:02 And allow us to ask a few questions and highlight what
10:33:09 we have been able to glean from speed reading here.
10:33:12 We have been speed reading like apparently maybe that's
10:33:17 what the meter readers are supposed to do.
10:33:19 I'm just looking at these dots.
10:33:25 Here's what I'd like to say because I asked for this,
10:33:30 the first time this came up, back in December?
10:33:33 Or January?
10:33:34 I don't know when we first started, Council first
10:33:37 started having to address this, because of the
10:33:40 overwhelming number of constituents that were
10:33:45 complaining to us.
10:33:46 But, I still don't have the one thing I asked for.
10:33:50 And you know, we need the numbers.
10:33:56 We need an Excel spreadsheet that shows us what all
10:34:03 these little pinpoint dots are.
10:34:05 And I asked for this from Mr. Daignault.
10:34:11 And he took note of it.
10:34:12 But I never got it.
10:34:14 And what we need is by, maybe by month, maybe
10:34:26 November 1st through, you know, November 29 or 30,
10:34:33 however many days there are.
10:34:36 How many -- the address, how much the water bill was
10:34:44 multiplied for every one that you say gets kicked out
10:34:48 or whatever you call it, because you've gone to the
10:34:52 trouble of making these little maps.
10:34:54 You have that data and we need it.
10:34:56 We need that data that you have that you won't give to
10:35:00 We need that data.
10:35:01 To even be able to talk about this.
10:35:03 So, what seems very clear to me in your report is yes,
10:35:06 you've identified some problems with meter readings and
10:35:09 with your system, but you say right in the report, none
10:35:14 of that explains the extremely high water bills we have
10:35:18 been having recently.
10:35:20 And actually, Mr. Miranda, when I look at these dots, I
10:35:25 see that they have gone up a lot.
10:35:27 But you know, who knows?
10:35:31 Because we haven't had time to look at this.
10:35:33 But, I want to point out a few things.
10:35:36 So when you come back next week, I'm asking you to give
10:35:42 us that list that shows us a comparison, how many water
10:35:50 bills basically what this visual map gives us, we need
10:35:57 that in a spreadsheet.
10:35:58 Divided by how many bills, two times, three times, four
10:36:03 times, five times, ten times, what you have here.
10:36:06 And then I just want to -- I think this is a question
10:36:10 for the auditor.
10:36:12 You know, we have asked you to look at the overall
10:36:18 picture as opposed to this case-by-case thing, which
10:36:23 you know, I counted up -- I think there were 5,000 from
10:36:30 the last time we got a report, 5,000 bills that were
10:36:34 more than twice as much total, is that right?
10:36:38 >> About 4400 I believe is what the graphs say.
10:36:43 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
10:36:44 This year.
10:36:44 In this past, since --
10:36:48 >> Just for the November-December time frame.
10:36:51 >>MARY MULHERN: November and December.
10:36:52 All right.
10:36:52 So that's what we need lined up.
10:36:54 But my question for -- where is Roger?
10:36:58 For him is, and I don't see it in here anywhere.
10:37:03 I see what you say doesn't account for the problems.
10:37:07 Was there any case where you went out and were able to
10:37:13 connect the amount of usage that people were billed to
10:37:20 the actual problem, whether it was a leak or a problem
10:37:25 with a meter?
10:37:27 Because it looks to me -- I don't see anything in here
10:37:32 that says you figured out at all why we were having
10:37:36 these extremely high bills.
10:37:38 You found problems with our meter reading process.
10:37:41 But where -- where is the explanation of why those
10:37:47 bills went up so high?
10:37:49 >> Ms. Mulhern, if I may again, we are halfway through
10:37:52 the presentation.
10:37:53 The audit report was presented.
10:37:58 I agree on continuing this to next week.
10:38:00 But I would respectfully ask that you allow us to
10:38:03 continue the presentation so that we can address a lot
10:38:07 of the questions that you are addressing.
10:38:09 >>MARY MULHERN: He was done with the audit report.
10:38:11 Now I'm asking him an audit question.
10:38:13 >> The water task force report is about half finished
10:38:17 for this morning.
10:38:18 And we'll address the contributing factors that we
10:38:20 identified during the last 45 days, that you are asking
10:38:24 And then we'll come back next week after you have time
10:38:27 to read the reports, and we have time to pre-brief you
10:38:31 and answer your questions, and address it again.
10:38:34 But to continue it now without going through the rest
10:38:37 of the report, I think would be difficult for the
10:38:44 public and others to get the information that they
10:38:48 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
10:38:49 I still have a lot of questions, so I'll reserve them
10:38:52 until you're done with your report if that's what
10:38:55 Council wants.
10:38:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's complete the report then.
10:38:58 How much time you need, Mr. Smith?
10:39:00 >> 15 minutes, sir.
10:39:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
10:39:03 Let's hold our questions till they finish the report.
10:39:08 >> Thank you, chairman.
10:39:10 I would like to transition to the contributing factors
10:39:15 and the recommendation portions of the main task force.
10:39:18 And the first contributing factor that we evaluated and
10:39:23 discussed extensively in the task force was the
10:39:28 Because the weather, both in terms of rainfall and in
10:39:32 terms of temperature changes and the extent of the
10:39:36 temperature changes have a great deal to do with the
10:39:40 water usage throughout the city.
10:39:42 The chart before you shows the rainfall for year 2010.
10:39:48 For each of the months and as plotted in terms of the
10:39:52 rainfall on the left side in inches.
10:39:55 You will see that in the March and April time frame, we
10:40:00 had fairly good rainfall.
10:40:02 We certainly had good rainfall in July and August.
10:40:05 But you see after August, the rainfall amount dropped
10:40:10 off in September and further dropped off in October,
10:40:14 slight rise in November, but back down in December to
10:40:18 October levels.
10:40:19 And you see that October, November, December extremely
10:40:25 low rainfall amounts throughout the city.
10:40:27 If you compare the 2010 rainfall amounts in blue with
10:40:40 the ten year average rainfall, again focusing on the
10:40:46 September time frame, you see that the rainfall in
10:40:50 September was about half, over half lower than it has
10:40:56 been during the last ten year average.
10:40:58 And you will see in October, November, December,
10:41:02 significantly below the ten year average and very low
10:41:06 The next slide represents a couple of different
10:41:17 On the right, we have rainfall inches again.
10:41:21 And on the graph, the green line represents rainfall,
10:41:28 but just for the November, December time frame, and
10:41:32 what we're doing is comparing November, December 2010
10:41:36 with the same time period in '09, '08, 7 and 6.
10:41:43 And you can see again the extremely low rainfall that
10:41:47 we had in November and December, causing increased
10:41:50 water usage.
10:41:51 And at the bottom, you see three times projected usage,
10:41:57 five times projected usage, ten times projected usage.
10:42:01 What that means is that we did an analysis and for each
10:42:09 account whose read in November and December was three
10:42:14 times more than their historical 14 month average or
10:42:18 five times more than the historical 14 month average or
10:42:23 ten times, and then we plotted those as shown on the
10:42:29 The blue represents those accounts that had ten times
10:42:33 the projected usage during that time frame.
10:42:37 Over those years, but again, only for November,
10:42:40 The red showing five times.
10:42:45 And you see the purple portion of the graph is showing
10:42:50 you the usage where the account usage in November,
10:42:55 December was three times their historic average.
10:42:58 And what that means, if my 14 month historic average
10:43:02 was ten, and now I get the billing for that time
10:43:07 period, that's going to be up to 30.
10:43:09 That represents a significant increase in my account
10:43:13 and certainly for those that are five times an ten
10:43:16 times, it is significantly more than that.
10:43:18 But again, it shows across the bottom, the green in
10:43:23 2010, November, December, extremely low rainfall.
10:43:27 And you see the increase of about 33% in the three
10:43:32 times plus user category representing increased usage
10:43:36 of water and the associated increase in the water
10:43:40 Now getting to those graphs that we were talking about,
10:43:51 we are taking that same three times, five times, ten
10:43:55 times information and plotting them on the graph.
10:44:01 And this is the graph that shows the residential
10:44:07 accounts, and it should be for the exceeded three times
10:44:12 projected usage.
10:44:14 And you can see that there's a total of 4455 plots or
10:44:23 accounts in the November, December time frame that used
10:44:27 more than their historic average by three times.
10:44:29 And you can see where the dots are plotted that this is
10:44:34 not a situation that was unique to New Tampa.
10:44:37 It's not a situation unique to Dana Shores.
10:44:40 But it is in fact throughout the city.
10:44:43 And as predominantly and heaviest in the greenbelt
10:44:49 sections of the city.
10:44:50 But it is certainly not isolated in the city where you
10:44:53 would expect more than one meter reader's not reading
10:44:59 meters properly.
10:45:01 And the next slide shows you the usage for those
10:45:03 accounts that exceeded their 14 month average by five
10:45:07 times in the November-December time frame.
10:45:09 You still see a lot of dots.
10:45:13 Throughout the city.
10:45:14 And as Mr. Miranda said and as Ms. Mulhern said, it's
10:45:19 been that way in '08 and '09 and now again in '10.
10:45:24 And it's directly related to weather conditions and
10:45:30 especially in the months of November, December.
10:45:32 So even with a five times category account, we still
10:45:37 have 1860 accounts that have exceeded their 14 month
10:45:43 average by five times in the months of November,
10:45:46 And in the final chart, we have those that exceeded ten
10:45:52 times the projected usage, and you can still see the
10:45:56 greenbelt areas of the city, New Tampa, Dana Shores,
10:46:00 South Tampa, have a lot of representation in that
10:46:07 Shifting to the temperature discussion.
10:46:12 We have talk before about when the temperature goes
10:46:16 down, we know that pipes freeze.
10:46:19 Well, luckily we don't have to get into the situation
10:46:22 very often where we encounter that.
10:46:26 But we have to be concerned with how low the
10:46:29 temperature goes and the impact on the irrigation
10:46:33 systems or just the water distribution system itself,
10:46:36 and we also have to be concerned with the number of
10:46:39 times or the number of cycles during the month that you
10:46:43 have peaks and valleys and how much of a gap between
10:46:47 the peaks and valley in temperatures that we have.
10:46:49 And this slide shows across the bottom is for the month
10:46:54 of December.
10:46:56 And it represents each day in the month.
10:46:59 And it shows in blue the maximum temperature for each
10:47:03 And it shows in orange the minimum temperature in each,
10:47:08 for each day.
10:47:09 And you can see at least four significant dips in
10:47:15 Three of which were approaching the mid 30s.
10:47:20 And then the same month, we had highs in the 70s at
10:47:23 least three times.
10:47:25 So those shifts cause pipes to contract and to expand.
10:47:32 When you get that circumstances you have the potential
10:47:34 of joints experiencing leaks and the pipes being a
10:47:41 problem as far as, you know, usage of water.
10:47:45 So at this point, I'd like to shift back to
10:47:52 Mr. Daignault or to Mr. Daignault to continue our
10:47:55 discussion of the additional factors that were
10:47:58 evaluated during the task force.
10:48:04 >> Good morning, Councilmembers, Steve Daignault,
10:48:06 administrator for public works utility services.
10:48:10 I'd like to continue on with those contributing
10:48:14 These are the ones I'm going to talk about.
10:48:16 Number of watering days, addition of high tiers.
10:48:19 The bimonthly meter reading process.
10:48:21 The meter readers.
10:48:23 Meter maintenance.
10:48:24 UAD consolidation process, adequacy and last one I
10:48:28 think is the bills.
10:48:29 This chart looks like it would not be connected.
10:48:34 It looks like it might be disjointed.
10:48:38 What you see in here is rainfall and then the twice a
10:48:42 week watering.
10:48:44 If you consider the time frame, the
10:48:47 October-November-December time frame, you see that the
10:48:51 water, the rain dropped off considerably during that
10:48:54 time frame.
10:48:57 But what happened also during that time, starting in
10:49:00 July, the twice a week watering was allowed.
10:49:04 And that's a big, a big issue.
10:49:06 You recall that back in 2007, 2008 and 2009, we were in
10:49:12 a drought condition.
10:49:14 The city had restricted watering to once a week, not
10:49:17 twice a week.
10:49:18 We have been doing once a week for several years,
10:49:21 actually for a number of years there.
10:49:23 And then in 2010, we realigned ourselves with SWFWMD
10:49:28 and so whatever SWFWMD went to a different condition,
10:49:33 we went as well.
10:49:34 So in July of 2010, SWFWMD said, we're going to move,
10:49:40 release the restrictions back up a little bit, and
10:49:42 allow folks to go to twice a week watering.
10:49:45 That twice a week watering is significant.
10:49:48 Under once a week watering, considering that we read
10:49:52 every other month, that's a two-month period, you would
10:49:55 have eight watering days in a two month period, between
10:49:59 reads and bills.
10:50:00 Or the read for a bill.
10:50:03 Under twice a week watering, it's 16 days of watering.
10:50:07 It's twice as much watering.
10:50:09 So it's a significant amount of again, an increase in
10:50:12 the amount of watering that the people who do irrigate
10:50:15 on a regular basis would use.
10:50:17 Few minutes ago, the chief of staff showed you this
10:50:28 chart without the shaded area.
10:50:30 And it showed that during, as again, the green line --
10:50:36 I'm sorry it's so busy, but the green line shows
10:50:39 rainfall and it shows for November, December, 2010
10:50:42 where the rainfall had dropped considerably.
10:50:45 And as a result of that, you see, especially it shows
10:50:49 on the three times chart on the purple line, how the
10:50:52 usage went up.
10:50:53 Also, oddly enough, this is a time when we went from
10:50:58 once a week watering to twice a week watering being
10:51:02 So, as we have been trying to say, there's not one
10:51:05 reason or one issue that has caused these things, but a
10:51:09 culmination of many things and here's two of them.
10:51:14 Weather, dry weather caused people to want to water and
10:51:17 irrigate and twice a week watering was allowed.
10:51:20 So again, people were able to do that.
10:51:22 Next one I'm going to talk about is the addition of the
10:51:27 two high tiers.
10:51:29 Again, we had those droughts.
10:51:31 And the City Council at SWFWMD's request, enacted the
10:51:38 two higher tiers for the intent of asking the high
10:51:42 water users to conserve water, influencing them to
10:51:45 conserve water.
10:51:46 Nevertheless, because we read meters every two months,
10:51:56 and then we average the actual over that period of
10:51:59 time, those high tiers are something that people who
10:52:03 normally wouldn't have touched them, started to come
10:52:06 closer to.
10:52:07 Over a two month period, you would have had to used 150
10:52:11 CCFs, because we average it, would have had to use
10:52:16 150 CCFs to start touching the high tiers.
10:52:19 But what the high tiers did different from the weather
10:52:24 causing more usage or the twice a month watering
10:52:26 causing more usage, the high tiers increased peoples'
10:52:31 In fact, they increased them pretty significantly.
10:52:34 If you look at this chart, we have got three different
10:52:37 customers, and they're just typical customers.
10:52:40 Kind of a low user, a middle user and a high user.
10:52:43 If you look under the column that says no leaks, no
10:52:47 problems, that could be their standard bill.
10:52:50 Their standard usage, standard bill.
10:52:52 If they do have a leak or another problem with their
10:52:58 system that causes more water usage that's unintended,
10:53:02 this could be what you would see.
10:53:04 For customer A, they could go from 11.21 cents if they
10:53:09 use 124 CCFs, to a thousand dollars.
10:53:13 That would be their bill.
10:53:14 Now, what's significant here for me is to influence, or
10:53:18 to impress upon you as the public, what the impact of
10:53:21 the high tiers.
10:53:22 For that same water usage, with high tiers, that almost
10:53:27 That goes to $1,925 -- $65.
10:53:31 A customer B, again a low user, or middle user, was 55,
10:53:37 just barely touched into the higher tiers, saw an
10:53:42 increase, but not significantly.
10:53:43 Again, it was the leaks or other usage that was
10:53:47 different from prior times or prior history that caused
10:53:49 the difference.
10:53:50 And then C, again, you see that again, it can be
10:53:54 hundreds of dollars difference just because of the high
10:53:57 So high tiers caused the bill price to go up.
10:54:02 Didn't influence the water usage, but certainly
10:54:05 increased the bill price.
10:54:06 Bimonthly reader, or meter reading process.
10:54:12 Because we read meters every other month, we have to
10:54:17 average them over the -- the reading over the two
10:54:21 months, in order to get an adequate representation of
10:54:24 their usage during that time, since the last read.
10:54:28 And what that does, it allows folks to take the benefit
10:54:32 of the lowest possible tier combination for the two
10:54:35 month period, and calculating their charge.
10:54:37 There is an attachment, I think it's attachment A in
10:54:41 the report that goes over and explains -- it's a little
10:54:46 complicated -- but it explains how we determine the
10:54:49 billing based on an every-two-month read.
10:54:52 The problem with this is, and I can use the worst case.
10:54:59 If you read the meter today and then tomorrow a leak of
10:55:03 some sort starts, it's going to be two months under our
10:55:06 current system before somebody is able to determine
10:55:09 hey, my water bill is way out of line.
10:55:12 So it could be again a good period of time.
10:55:15 During that time, what's happening is a gap is
10:55:21 developing between that person's estimate that they're
10:55:25 going to get a month from now, and the real usage.
10:55:28 So it's going to be two months, and that gap will be
10:55:31 even bigger before somebody, a meter reader or somebody
10:55:35 in the billing section says hey, their bill is high.
10:55:38 We need to check to see why that is.
10:55:40 Or they should receive their bill and say wait a
10:55:43 minute, that's a much higher bill than I normally would
10:55:46 We have had a lot of discussion about meter readers and
10:55:53 I haven't got to that section yet.
10:55:54 I want to talk about that.
10:55:56 But, if for some reason a reading is not acquired,
10:56:00 okay, we read meters every two months.
10:56:03 If for some reason an actual read is missed, or is not
10:56:06 made, and we use an estimate, this could go on for four
10:56:11 So the problem with that is between the estimated or
10:56:16 what the customer's expecting and reality even grows
10:56:19 This is what we call a catch-up read because when that
10:56:25 read actually occurs, we're catching up to the actual
10:56:29 versus the estimated amount of water that was used and
10:56:31 billed for.
10:56:32 Another point regarding the meter reading.
10:56:39 The internal auditor mentioned the extended days, the
10:56:44 time between reads.
10:56:46 If you went from 60 days to 70 days, between reads,
10:56:51 that's about a 16% increase.
10:56:53 So, again, we consider this another one of the
10:56:56 contributing factors that could influence folks' bill.
10:56:59 It is not the one that caused it to go to two or three
10:57:02 or four times.
10:57:03 It's not two hundred or three hundred or four hundred
10:57:06 time increase.
10:57:06 We have the meter readers.
10:57:13 There's been a lot of allegations that the meter
10:57:17 readers have read erroneously or incorrectly entered
10:57:21 numbers into the handheld device and been the cause of
10:57:25 the higher bills.
10:57:26 When a meter reader enters a number, when he reads the
10:57:31 meters and enters into it the handheld, if the handheld
10:57:33 device will beep if the reading would cause it to be
10:57:37 higher than three times their historic 14 month
10:57:40 That's one time it gets catched or caught.
10:57:43 Also when it gets loaded into the MSS system it gets
10:57:46 downloaded into an exception report, and our billing
10:57:50 people will review it again.
10:57:52 If there's need for it, they will ask for a re-read.
10:57:55 There's a couple of checks there.
10:57:56 We thought that there were other things to be concerned
10:58:00 We looked at how -- we have information showing the
10:58:03 time between reads.
10:58:04 So we looked at that.
10:58:06 We said how much time was it between reads?
10:58:08 On a particular route.
10:58:09 And we were concerned because some of them, the
10:58:11 averages looked pretty low.
10:58:13 We explored that.
10:58:14 We found nothing definitively that could indicate that
10:58:19 we were not getting reads.
10:58:20 And in fact, we went behind meter readers in some cases
10:58:23 and read after they read it and the reads were correct.
10:58:27 So, again, we just have nothing that indicates that
10:58:31 there's a systemic problem out there as a result of the
10:58:35 Meter maintenance is another issue.
10:58:40 Meter change-outs.
10:58:42 City of Tampa has been actually on a pretty aggressive
10:58:46 plan to change out a lot of its old meters.
10:58:50 When meters are 10 years old or older, they start
10:58:53 slowing down and you actually get less accurate read.
10:58:56 But it's a slowdown.
10:58:58 It's a less usage rather than accurate, hundred percent
10:59:02 accurate usage.
10:59:03 We changed out in the last three years, 80,000 meters.
10:59:11 And we're continuing to do that we'll continue to
10:59:14 change out meters.
10:59:15 We did have some defective meters.
10:59:25 We had meters that stopped running.
10:59:28 Stopped working.
10:59:29 They were newer meters, they were 2007, 2008 edition of
10:59:36 Nevertheless, they stopped running.
10:59:37 We had zero reads from them.
10:59:39 Had nothing to do with the high reads, but we have been
10:59:42 dealing with the manufacturer.
10:59:44 We have had to change those out as well.
10:59:46 These dead reads, dead meters are an issue that every
10:59:51 utility has.
10:59:52 Again, they occur from time to time, but they show up
10:59:55 quickly in the read, in the dropout reports.
10:59:58 We also had the issue, an issue of air in the meters or
11:00:03 air going through the lines.
11:00:04 We explored that.
11:00:05 We talk to the professors out at university of south
11:00:09 We talk with the Neptune folks, the manufacturers.
11:00:12 We talked with other consultants that we have contracts
11:00:16 with and relationships with.
11:00:20 We could give you lots of pamphlets.
11:00:23 There is a possibility that air can get in a line, but
11:00:27 there is no evidence that we have that would indicate
11:00:31 that air going through the meters caused these high
11:00:36 Again, it can cause some aberration, but certainly not
11:00:39 a two or three or four, or five times increase in your
11:00:43 water usage and water bill.
11:00:45 The UAD, next item I want to talk about is the UAD
11:00:51 We actually consolidated the utility accounting
11:00:54 division and the water call center and the wastewater
11:00:58 call center and the solid waste call centers all into
11:01:02 They all came together into what was the water
11:01:05 distribution division.
11:01:08 And it's created the new water distribution and
11:01:16 consumer services division.
11:01:17 This began during the summer of 2010.
11:01:20 The new organization was in place in September of 2010.
11:01:22 We were still moving units as late as December, moving
11:01:26 people around and into the new organization.
11:01:30 In the process, we have been implementing new policies
11:01:35 and procedures as we have gone along.
11:01:38 However, things like the call center, they careful from
11:01:43 four areas.
11:01:43 This group dealt with water.
11:01:45 This group dealt with solid waste.
11:01:48 This group dealt with billing errors.
11:01:50 So we brought those folks together, not all of them
11:01:54 have been trained yet to be versed in all of the
11:01:58 various utilities.
11:01:59 So, that was a problem when this occurred.
11:02:02 Among the things that we have been doing is that we
11:02:09 have had the meter readers work full days, work regular
11:02:14 We have given them tools to access the meters and not
11:02:17 scratch them so they'll sustain and be readable longer.
11:02:21 We have required them to enter their personal
11:02:23 identification code into the handheld device so we
11:02:26 could track who's doing reading on which route.
11:02:29 We have formed the high bill investigation team.
11:02:32 Actually we formed it before this occurred.
11:02:35 It was a small group of folks, but they were out there
11:02:37 doing this sort of thing.
11:02:39 We have had to beef them up going through this process.
11:02:41 I will tell you that many of the people that we go out
11:02:44 and do an investigation for them on their side of the
11:02:47 meter are very, very appreciative of what we're doing.
11:02:51 So again, we think that that group works well and needs
11:02:54 to continue.
11:02:55 We plan to cross train all the customer service folks
11:03:00 It has not happened yet.
11:03:02 And the overwhelming calls that they receive has caused
11:03:05 them to have to come up quicker than we had planned.
11:03:08 And again, training, actual training on customer
11:03:11 service techniques and capabilities is still yet to
11:03:15 The last item was the adequacy of the utility bill.
11:03:27 Last item in the, that area.
11:03:31 Our utility bill represents charges for water,
11:03:34 wastewater and solid waste.
11:03:36 It also has that, those estimates in there every other
11:03:41 It can be confusing.
11:03:43 It's not a real simple matter to look at your bill and
11:03:46 figure out how your charges were determined.
11:03:49 And we realize that.
11:03:51 It doesn't include these calculations.
11:03:54 We have tiers.
11:03:55 We have Tampa Bay water pass-through some times of the
11:04:01 year, depending on what water we had to buy.
11:04:03 Has abbreviations and codes.
11:04:05 Has a sewer max, all of which are questions our
11:04:08 customers have and we want to address them.
11:04:10 So we do think that we need to do something with our
11:04:13 utility bill, regardless of how we do billing or meter
11:04:16 reading in the future.
11:04:17 Council, the last section I need to talk about is about
11:04:22 I think this is the most important section.
11:04:26 We can sit in here all day long and talk about how did
11:04:30 we get there?
11:04:31 How did this happen?
11:04:32 Well, was it weather or did somebody read the meter or
11:04:36 how many dots?
11:04:37 We can spend all kinds of time doing that we can give
11:04:40 you reams of paper with address itself and names.
11:04:43 I'm not sure we are going to fix anything.
11:04:45 But these recommendations are going to move us forward.
11:04:48 They're going to get us from where we are or where we
11:04:51 have been to where we need to go to fix the situation.
11:04:54 Let me just first tell you that there's an aggressive
11:05:03 team of folks down in the water distribution and
11:05:08 customer services area who are anxious to get this
11:05:11 thing behind them.
11:05:13 They're very aggressive in wanting to get it right.
11:05:15 And they're working hard to get it right.
11:05:18 And again, they're out there and you need to know
11:05:21 they're there working on this every day.
11:05:23 So here are the recommendations.
11:05:25 Number one, the high tiers.
11:05:27 You know all the problems with that and you've approved
11:05:30 a suspension of those high tiers.
11:05:32 Before they go back into existence, they should be
11:05:36 reevaluated, both in quantity and whether or not they
11:05:39 should be spread perhaps in some other way to influence
11:05:42 everybody and not just high users.
11:05:44 There's a lot of work that can be done on those before
11:05:47 they're ever thought to be brought back or enacted
11:05:50 And I would only recommend you do that during times of
11:05:54 drought, not just as a regular occurrence on the tier
11:05:59 And as I've had some questions, the only way, as you
11:06:05 know, that that could occur is if the administration
11:06:08 brings something forward.
11:06:09 Council would have to approve it.
11:06:11 You would have public input time and there would be, at
11:06:15 least 30 days notice to all the customers before that
11:06:18 could happen.
11:06:19 Then we have what I think is the most, just the single
11:06:25 most important change that we'd like to see and we're
11:06:27 already moving in that direction.
11:06:29 And that is going to monthly meter reading.
11:06:31 Monthly meter reading is going to be the single-most
11:06:36 big improvement that we could do for our customers.
11:06:39 Estimates will essentially go away.
11:06:41 When we do that and that's been a big part of the
11:06:44 problem, both in interpreting your bill and in
11:06:47 calculating your bill.
11:06:48 The time between actual reads will go from 60 days to
11:06:52 30 days.
11:06:53 So if you have a leak or if you have a problem or you
11:06:55 have some kind of usage occurring that you're not aware
11:07:00 of, it will only be 30 days instead of 60 days or more
11:07:03 before you see some tangible evidence of that.
11:07:05 So you'll have reduced exposure to high bills,
11:07:10 customers will have.
11:07:11 We'll have these dead meters that will be found sooner.
11:07:13 Again, that's helpful for us, it's helpful for
11:07:16 customers as well.
11:07:17 And we'll have regular access to the meters and the
11:07:22 meter boxes.
11:07:23 You heard the internal auditor say, well, there was a
11:07:27 lot of debris in the meter boxes and over the meter
11:07:31 I walked with a meter reader as well.
11:07:33 And I will tell you that just about every one of the
11:07:35 meter boxes was covered up with something.
11:07:38 Vegetation or dirt or debris or leaves or something.
11:07:41 The meter reader knew where it was.
11:07:44 I didn't exactly know where it was.
11:07:46 But help clean it, go over to it, open it up and get
11:07:49 into it.
11:07:50 If we read meters monthly instead of every 60 day,
11:07:54 those things will be cleaned more often and so access
11:07:56 to them will eventually be improved just by that
11:08:00 regular accessing the meter instead of doing it again
11:08:04 every 60 days.
11:08:05 The other thing that we need to do soon that should
11:08:10 have been done perhaps a long time ago is what I call
11:08:13 purifying the routes.
11:08:14 Some of these meters are in a bad location.
11:08:18 We could move them.
11:08:19 We could raise them up if they need to be raised up.
11:08:22 We need to make sure every meter and meter box is
11:08:25 accessible and the meter is readable.
11:08:28 In many cases, that's not the case.
11:08:30 So we need to go through and purify our routes.
11:08:33 We suggest that this task force continue.
11:08:37 There's a whole lot of things that need to be done.
11:08:40 The recommendations that are in this report
11:08:43 establishing and implementing a needed policies.
11:08:46 We have begun that process, but we haven't finished
11:08:49 that process since this has come to the water
11:08:51 We need to evaluate, develop and train our staff.
11:08:56 Again, that's not been completed as well.
11:08:58 We need to ensure proper staffing levels.
11:09:01 We need to complete the bill redesign.
11:09:03 We haven't talk about that yet, but we do need to
11:09:05 complete that bill redesign.
11:09:07 And we need the task force to assist with the
11:09:12 transition to monthly billing, or monthly meter reading
11:09:16 and billing.
11:09:17 When we do that, it's going to be another group of
11:09:20 issues that we're going to have to deal with.
11:09:22 Things don't always just happen automatically and quick
11:09:25 and perfectly.
11:09:26 So when we go to monthly reading, there's going to need
11:09:32 some help and the task force would be the group to help
11:09:34 us with that we need to enhance the call center.
11:09:36 Again, policies procedures and training, focusing on
11:09:39 customer service.
11:09:40 Again, a lot of our folks have experience in the call
11:09:46 center, but they don't have customer service training
11:09:49 and that kind of experience in the call center.
11:09:51 We need to enhance our billing credit and collections
11:09:55 Again with policies and procedures.
11:09:56 What to do with a high bill.
11:09:58 You don't just estimate it because that estimate comes,
11:10:01 becomes that catch-up read and widens the gap.
11:10:03 We have got to resolve those high bills before they
11:10:07 become worse on us.
11:10:08 We want our customers to be confident that their bills
11:10:12 are accurate and we want to help them with water
11:10:15 conservation and with early detection of problems.
11:10:18 We want to continue on with the high bill investigation
11:10:25 Again, this is a service to our customers.
11:10:27 Again, most of them really appreciate us coming out
11:10:30 there and doing that it saves them money.
11:10:32 It helps us with water accountability.
11:10:34 And it's the right thing to do.
11:10:36 Finally, again, redesign the utility bill.
11:10:40 Our utility bill -- regardless of where we go in the
11:10:44 future, we think this bill needs to be revised.
11:10:47 We would like to get a focus group of citizens,
11:10:50 customers, to help us, you know, tell us what you think
11:10:54 you need to see on that bill.
11:10:55 Let's see how we can put the right information in the
11:10:59 right format and the right display, so you can
11:11:02 understand it.
11:11:03 It's easy and friendly to you, and we'd like to do
11:11:07 that, all about the same time that we go to monthly
11:11:10 So we are tentatively looking at 1 October time frame
11:11:13 to move in that direction.
11:11:15 I know I've spoken a long time here and I appreciate
11:11:19 your patience with me.
11:11:20 If the going to monthly reading is the most important
11:11:25 thing we can do, going to a new meter, or bill format
11:11:30 will be the second most important thing that we can do
11:11:32 for our customers.
11:11:33 Turn it back over to the chief of staff.
11:11:36 >> Thank you, Steve.
11:11:36 If I could move into the conclusions portion, please.
11:11:40 Unusually dry and cold weather conditions, twice a week
11:11:50 watering, and the implementation of two new high tiers
11:11:54 resulted in the extraordinary water bill that is we
11:11:57 have encountered.
11:11:58 Customer complaints and high bill investigations
11:12:01 overwhelmed the water department.
11:12:04 That was in the process of simultaneously trying to
11:12:06 consolidate, relocate and establish new policies and
11:12:10 procedures to increase supervision and accountability
11:12:13 for the utility accounting division.
11:12:17 Explanation for high bills were difficult because of
11:12:19 the confusing bimonthly meter read process and a lack
11:12:24 of confidence by customers in the accuracy of water
11:12:27 meters, the software billing system and the meter
11:12:31 The water task force has completed a comprehensive
11:12:35 study to identify deficiencies and provide
11:12:38 recommendation for service level improvements.
11:12:40 The highest two tiers have been suspended.
11:12:44 A transition to monthly meter reading is underway.
11:12:47 The water meters and billing systems are accurately
11:12:50 recording and computing the cost for water usage.
11:12:54 The integration of UAD functions is a work in progress
11:12:57 with the water department.
11:12:59 And the successful implementation of the task force
11:13:02 recommendations will require ongoing commitment by the
11:13:06 water department and the city to modernize and improve
11:13:10 our utility billing operations and to do a better job
11:13:13 of providing customer service.
11:13:15 With that, Chairman Scott, I appreciate the additional
11:13:19 consideration and the time.
11:13:21 And Councilmembers.
11:13:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: One sec.
11:13:24 Let me just raise a couple questions then,
11:13:28 Councilmember Mulhern had the floor, then Councilmember
11:13:31 And Councilmember Caetano and Miranda.
11:13:34 Let me raise the question.
11:13:35 How much did all this cost?
11:13:37 >> The task force?
11:13:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
11:13:39 How much did this cost?
11:13:40 >> All of it was based on the salaries of the city.
11:13:46 We used no external consultants.
11:13:48 It was just a matter of shifting work from what we
11:13:54 would have been doing during that time, to focus on
11:13:56 this effort.
11:13:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I thought also along with that, the
11:13:59 hiring of additional, the budget amend am that we
11:14:03 approved and passed, with that cost, wasn't that part
11:14:07 of that?
11:14:08 Is that a part of that?
11:14:11 >> There was, you know, the addition of contract out
11:14:15 meter readers for three zones.
11:14:17 So yes, sir, that is cost.
11:14:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Hundred thousand, whatever it was we
11:14:23 voted upon, plus the additional work by staff.
11:14:27 I was trying to figure did you have a cost associated
11:14:29 with that?
11:14:30 Let me just raise another question.
11:14:32 You can report back next week on that.
11:14:34 Mrs. Lopez, whose water bill was $4,000, now it's
11:14:38 reported she had a leaking toilet.
11:14:40 So, then she didn't, she didn't water her lawn.
11:14:44 Only one person live in the house.
11:14:46 So then are we saying that costs was because of the
11:14:55 >> No, sir, I think in that case, the cause was clearly
11:14:59 determined to be the leaking.
11:15:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So leaking toilet.
11:15:04 >> And precipitated a reading that got into the tiers,
11:15:08 where you had an extremely high multiplier for the cost
11:15:12 of water, and since then, we have adjusted that bill
11:15:17 down to in the vicinity of $350, I believe.
11:15:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me ask one other question.
11:15:23 In this report, it says you all say you need this
11:15:27 maintenance team to move vehicles, vehicles that have
11:15:34 been water meter for sometime.
11:15:36 Fences around water meters.
11:15:38 So you're telling us already there are problems other
11:15:41 than just the weather.
11:15:42 That's been a lack of reading by those who supposed to
11:15:49 have been reading the meters.
11:15:50 Now you say in your report, there are cars, I guess,
11:15:54 abandoned cars, broken cars been sitting over meters
11:15:57 for sometime that have not been read.
11:15:59 There are fences around meters that have not been read.
11:16:03 There are overgrown debris over meet there's have not
11:16:07 been read.
11:16:07 Is that accurate to assume, based on this report?
11:16:12 >> Yes, sir.
11:16:12 And that's always going to be a challenge with meter
11:16:17 Finding the meters and getting access.
11:16:20 But it's not that we ignore those.
11:16:23 We do have follow-up letters and you know, we
11:16:27 coordinate with the customers.
11:16:28 We had one instance where a meter was covered with
11:16:32 asphalt for a prolonged period of time.
11:16:34 So those are not the typical.
11:16:39 The typical what we find is that we need periodic
11:16:43 ongoing maintenance so that the reader has good access
11:16:46 to the meters.
11:16:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So then, have you all associated a cost
11:16:52 to all this in terms one, how much money has the city
11:16:56 In terms of revenue.
11:16:58 Secondly, with all these teams, have you put a cost to
11:17:04 what that's going to cost taxpayers?
11:17:06 Or at least the users, the franchise fee, whatever fee
11:17:10 we have to pay.
11:17:11 >> We really have not got into the costing part of it
11:17:15 because what we're doing now is putting together a
11:17:19 request for a proposal that will provide contracting
11:17:23 support for us to expand our meter reading operation to
11:17:27 once a month.
11:17:28 And I will say that one, that that -- the dead meters,
11:17:34 it was mentioned we were losing revenue because of the
11:17:37 dead meters.
11:17:38 In fact, what happens, once we discover the dead meter,
11:17:41 we go back with the customer and look at the 14 month
11:17:45 average and average the bill and they pay for that.
11:17:47 So it's not lost revenue.
11:17:49 But I will tell you in reinforce what Steve said.
11:17:52 We need to go to monthly meter read in order to save
11:17:56 water, to detect leaks earlier and to have more
11:18:01 frequent access to those meters.
11:18:03 And I will -- I would say that the money spent for that
11:18:07 is going to be a good investment as far as our ability
11:18:11 to produce accurate meter readings an accurate water
11:18:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:18:17 Councilmember Mulhern and Councilmember Stokes and
11:18:20 Councilmember Caetano and Councilmember Miranda.
11:18:21 In that order.
11:18:23 And I want you all to know that we do have an agenda
11:18:27 that we have not completed.
11:18:29 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
11:18:30 I want to point out right now, in case we forget, that
11:18:33 there was an item before this.
11:18:34 We're going to talk about that, about averaging the
11:18:39 water bills.
11:18:40 I don't even know where to start.
11:18:43 First of all, I guess I'll continue with the
11:18:46 information that we have been asking for for over, for
11:18:50 a few months.
11:18:51 To actually show us all of the, the bills and the
11:18:57 addresses and you can do it by the categories that
11:19:00 you've already done.
11:19:04 I actually looked at the data that you gave us the last
11:19:07 time, and there's a lot missing even from these maps.
11:19:10 And I would like that to be included, because when we
11:19:14 got the report a month or so ago, we had maps of all
11:19:20 the locations with November, December usage greater
11:19:25 than 100%.
11:19:26 That's not included in here.
11:19:28 And we had, which came out to 5,000 users.
11:19:34 And we had also a map with a total for people who had
11:19:40 gotten bills greater than, in November and December,
11:19:44 greater than 200% of their annual average.
11:19:47 That came out to 1,563.
11:19:51 And I'd like to point out when I compared the maps, the
11:19:55 new maps you gave us, with the ones you gave us a month
11:19:59 or so ago, the numbers have gone way up.
11:20:01 So these numbers, I just mentioned for the hundred
11:20:04 percent and two hundred percent bills may have doubled.
11:20:08 So we're not talking -- and you said that the number
11:20:13 of, total number of elevated bills, you were talking
11:20:20 about 4,455.
11:20:23 That's only the, even by the numbers you gave us today,
11:20:27 the total is not 4400, it is -- it's closer to 7,000.
11:20:39 Because you didn't include the -- even the numbers of
11:20:44 the five times and ten times.
11:20:46 So what I'm saying is that you're not giving us the
11:20:52 data, even in this map form, we are not getting the
11:20:57 real numbers.
11:20:58 And we need to have that next week and I'm sure you
11:21:01 have it.
11:21:02 And I don't know what excuse there is for not giving it
11:21:04 to us and letting people know.
11:21:08 >> I have not heard -- my question I was asking when
11:21:11 you went back to your report was for just one example,
11:21:17 where any of these things, the overwatering, because
11:21:22 you know, you said the rainfall.
11:21:26 Or a leak, or a meter reading problem.
11:21:30 That any of those problems, which may very well be
11:21:35 problems with our system, how those accounted for this
11:21:40 totality or even some of the individual users, like
11:21:45 Ms. Lopez is a good example.
11:21:47 We still don't know why.
11:21:49 And you haven't given us any reason why her bill was so
11:21:53 >> Excuse me, ma'am.
11:21:55 We have confirmed that she had a leak.
11:21:57 In her toilet.
11:21:58 And among that leak extended is not known.
11:22:04 But she had a leak in the toilet.
11:22:07 And we provided information before about what kind of
11:22:11 use that can produce over time.
11:22:14 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't, I don't think that -- those
11:22:19 are theories and projections.
11:22:20 That's not actual measurement.
11:22:22 So I'm not going to argue with you about it.
11:22:24 I'm just going to say that the only, the only thing in
11:22:30 this report that I have been able to read today that
11:22:37 indicates any reason why we would have this spike is
11:22:42 on page 12, where it says before the fall of 2010, in
11:22:49 cases where a re-read could not be obtained or was
11:22:52 seriously out of line with historical use, the bill was
11:22:56 corrected by a billing clerk to be in line with
11:22:59 historical usage.
11:23:00 So, I mean, this to me is a clue that something
11:23:05 happened in the process of creating the bills before
11:23:11 they went out, because perhaps they were doing the
11:23:16 estimation at that point, which to me makes more sense
11:23:20 than, you know, waiting and if perchance, after you get
11:23:25 your bill and it's five times, ten times as much, you
11:23:28 can actually get through to the water department,
11:23:31 actually get somebody out there, an they're going to
11:23:34 tell you well, it could be this or it could be that or
11:23:36 you have a leak.
11:23:37 But I don't think that any of that ever connects.
11:23:40 So, that's my question.
11:23:44 And then the other question is, Mr. Daignault, or maybe
11:23:49 it was you, somebody just mentioned for the first time
11:23:53 in all these discussions, the software, the billing
11:23:57 Do we have new billing software in the last year?
11:24:02 >> No, ma'am.
11:24:03 Both the auditors and the task force have looked at the
11:24:07 billing software and have confirmed without any concern
11:24:11 that it is accurately computing the bills.
11:24:14 And there's no problems.
11:24:16 >>MARY MULHERN: That wasn't my question.
11:24:17 Have we changed the software we're using?
11:24:21 >> No.
11:24:23 >>MARY MULHERN: We changed the personnel.
11:24:27 We reorganized.
11:24:30 >> Same software has been in use for many years.
11:24:33 And --
11:24:36 >>MARY MULHERN: When?
11:24:37 When did we get it?
11:24:38 >> I don't know.
11:24:39 It's been in excess of 10 years.
11:24:41 >>MARY MULHERN: That's another question I'd like an
11:24:42 answer to next week.
11:24:44 Also, did anyone, you know, we heard a week or so ago
11:24:48 that Atlanta and another city, I don't remember what
11:24:51 city, was also having these anomalous high water bills.
11:24:58 And I thought they said we used the same software that
11:25:01 they used.
11:25:02 >> We use the same water meters from Neptune.
11:25:05 But both of those examples are where the jurisdictions
11:25:10 have automatic meter reading systems, where there is a
11:25:14 transmitter that is built in over top of the manual
11:25:18 water meter that sends those signals to --
11:25:22 >>MARY MULHERN: But they haven't identified what their
11:25:24 problem was either, have they?
11:25:26 >> Yes, they have.
11:25:27 They have identified it and isolated it into the radio
11:25:30 transmitter, not the meter.
11:25:32 It's apples and oranges.
11:25:37 >>MARY MULHERN: I still feel like this, you know -- so
11:25:42 maybe they have an explanation, but we don't.
11:25:46 I don't see any, any real data here that shows me why
11:25:51 these bills went up.
11:25:52 And I don't even see the total numbers.
11:25:55 But I do want -- I want a report about what software we
11:26:00 use in billing, and I want a report on how the process
11:26:06 I mean, you've got this little one sentence in here,
11:26:10 when the reality is, you can talk about the problems
11:26:14 with meter reading, and you can talk about the problems
11:26:17 with people getting through to customer service here.
11:26:20 But the problem happened.
11:26:24 And you're saying it's not, you know, you don't have
11:26:26 anything to show that -- I mean, you said right in this
11:26:29 report, it's not because of these problems with meter
11:26:33 You said that in the report.
11:26:34 >> No, we said that there was no conclusive evidence
11:26:37 that we could find or the auditors could find --
11:26:41 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, that's what --
11:26:43 >> Were not perform.
11:26:45 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.
11:26:45 That's what you said.
11:26:46 So to me that is ruling that out as the problem.
11:26:50 So what does that leave us?
11:26:51 That leaves us with somehow bills were getting sent
11:26:55 out, in huge numbers, that were elevated and we still
11:27:01 don't know why.
11:27:03 And the bills were getting sent out.
11:27:05 So we still I don't think have any answers from you.
11:27:11 And I find it very curious because I respect all of
11:27:17 And I think you know what the problem is.
11:27:21 And I don't know why you can't just tell us what the
11:27:25 problem is.
11:27:26 And then the next administration will have to fix it.
11:27:33 >> I think we have told you one problem, that we need
11:27:37 to get into monthly meter reading.
11:27:39 >>MARY MULHERN: That was another question I had.
11:27:41 I thought we voted to support that already.
11:27:43 I thought you were already doing that I thought you'd
11:27:46 already changed that.
11:27:47 >> Only for the initial three out of 21 routes.
11:27:50 We need to come back to Council with an RFP that shows
11:27:55 the entire city on a monthly meter read basis.
11:28:00 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
11:28:00 But I don't think that, that explains anything -- the
11:28:05 problem is, all of the problems you've identified don't
11:28:09 have any connections to the time, to the change.
11:28:14 What accounts for a change?
11:28:17 We haven't change the way we do any of this.
11:28:19 Nothing's changed.
11:28:23 According to you.
11:28:25 Other than that, that was the only thing I could find.
11:28:28 Used to be the billing clerk could correct a really
11:28:32 high bill by averaging it before it went out.
11:28:34 Is that it?
11:28:35 Is that the answer?
11:28:36 >> I think the two important factors are the weather
11:28:38 and the tiers.
11:28:39 And I would say if the weather had not changed from the
11:28:44 August-September time frame.
11:28:46 If you just assumed that it was straight line and did
11:28:49 not change, the rainfall stayed constant, and the tiers
11:28:52 had not been implemented, I don't think we would be
11:28:55 here today.
11:28:59 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't think you showed that.
11:29:00 I don't think there's anything that shows that, that
11:29:03 that's what caused this.
11:29:04 So I think I have been clear about what we need to see
11:29:06 next week.
11:29:07 And I think that the other big problem we're going to
11:29:14 address after this is that all of these people who were
11:29:20 overbilled have no need to have their bills averaged,
11:29:27 which we have been trying to suggest all along.
11:29:31 And I hope this Council will vote to do that.
11:29:34 If we can, because we're saying to people, we don't --
11:29:40 you know.
11:29:41 We don't know why you got these high bills.
11:29:45 We can't figure it out.
11:29:46 There's no way you're going to go to 10,000 customers,
11:29:49 which is what I figure it is.
11:29:50 If we actually got the real numbers out of you.
11:29:53 Even if it's only 7,000 or 6,000.
11:29:58 We're not going to be -- you know, it doesn't even make
11:30:02 sense to do that because the people you've gone out to
11:30:05 you haven't been able to figure out why it's happening.
11:30:08 >> Excuse me.
11:30:08 40% of the approximately 400 that have been identified
11:30:13 as high bill complaints, 40% have been confirmed with
11:30:18 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
11:30:19 But show me how the leak, a leaking toilet causes ten
11:30:24 times as much water use.
11:30:25 Have you shown that?
11:30:27 That was my question -- my first question, show me one
11:30:31 example where you can connect the amount of water they
11:30:33 were billed for using with a leak.
11:30:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me suggest, since we are going to
11:30:39 continue this next week and our time is getting away
11:30:42 from us and I have four other speakers here.
11:30:44 That you bring that answer back next week to Council.
11:30:48 Council Stokes, kind of move this agenda.
11:30:51 You may not have a quorum this afternoon.
11:30:55 >>CURTIS STOKES: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
11:30:57 First start with a statement.
11:30:58 We read approximately 140,000 meters, and we took a
11:31:03 random sampling of 60 meters to determine the outcome
11:31:07 of the audit.
11:31:07 That's less than one percent.
11:31:09 Of what we did.
11:31:10 I don't think -- I'm not a statistician, but standard
11:31:12 deviation is greater than 25.
11:31:15 I don't think you could base conclusion off anything
11:31:18 greater than two or three or four percent under
11:31:20 standard deviation.
11:31:22 I'll begin with that.
11:31:23 The manual, the billing software, how often are we
11:31:29 tweaking or changing or going in to adjust the usage of
11:31:35 Or the rates?
11:31:38 >> Typically, only when you add new tiers or, last
11:31:43 couple years, we have added a pass-through option for
11:31:46 charging for Tampa Bay water.
11:31:47 But it is rare that the billing system gets changed
11:31:52 without those kinds of suggestions.
11:31:55 >>CURTIS STOKES: So we go in often and change the
11:31:57 amounts that we are charging or -- do we ever adjust
11:32:00 the usage, the dollar amount or the factors within that
11:32:05 >> I would not term it often.
11:32:07 But we have gone in when we added the two tiers.
11:32:12 And again, when we had a Tampa Bay water pass-through.
11:32:16 >>CURTIS STOKES: Next week when you come back next
11:32:18 week, can we get a report on how, between the dates of
11:32:22 last April 15th when we changed, we went to a tier
11:32:25 billing system, how often we adjusted, manually
11:32:29 adjusted the amounts between April and December, in
11:32:35 that report as well?
11:32:36 Also, all of our data is based off of November,
11:32:41 December's time frame.
11:32:43 But there's April, through October that we don't have
11:32:49 the detail of, of the data, of the data -- where I'm
11:32:56 going is, there was a spike in temperatures between
11:33:01 November, December.
11:33:02 Those heavy rain in August.
11:33:04 But we still don't know the effect of what the, the
11:33:12 effect of the bills were between April and July, and
11:33:18 between September and November.
11:33:21 The reason I'm going -- if we manually changed the
11:33:29 amounts or the factors within the system, what effect
11:33:32 did that have on the spikes in the water rates with the
11:33:37 tiered reading and the every other month of reading?
11:33:43 You see where I'm going?
11:33:44 >> Yes, sir.
11:33:45 I would say again that the auditors have checked
11:33:48 that --
11:33:50 >>CURTIS STOKES: But we don't -- that's less than one
11:33:52 percent sampling.
11:33:53 So we can't base it off what's here.
11:33:55 The standard deviation's off.
11:33:58 >> The 60-meter sample is differ from tracing readings
11:34:02 all the way through the billing system and making sure
11:34:05 that the billing system is accurately calculating the
11:34:09 correct cost.
11:34:09 One was checking the amount of water going through
11:34:14 those 60 meters.
11:34:15 The other one was a function of going through looking
11:34:18 at the billing process from meter read into input into
11:34:24 output into the customer bill.
11:34:26 Auditors did that my technology and innovation staff
11:34:29 did that and no discrepancies were found.
11:34:34 >>CURTIS STOKES: Okay.
11:34:37 How often do we adjust the cost of water?
11:34:41 >> Again, only by motion, or by action of Council.
11:34:46 And in the last three years, I don't know of any other
11:34:50 adjustments other than the two.
11:34:51 Well, there is an annual rate change.
11:34:56 I'm sorry.
11:34:58 >>CURTIS STOKES: But how often do we adjust the factors
11:35:00 within a given year?
11:35:02 Not just the cost of water, we use software that allows
11:35:08 us to go in and adjust the amount of water, the
11:35:16 >> The only adjustment that's made to the software is
11:35:19 when a rate change occurs or we add something, again a
11:35:22 line the Tampa Bay pass-through was added or high tiers
11:35:26 were added.
11:35:27 For the last three or four years, other than those two,
11:35:30 1 October, there an adjustment to the rate.
11:35:33 But they just change a two to a three or four to a five
11:35:36 or whatever the rate changes.
11:35:38 >>CURTIS STOKES: But on page 12, like Councilmember
11:35:41 Mulhern mentioned, a clerk has the ability to go in and
11:35:44 change these, change the rates.
11:35:47 >> Well, there's a difference between the operating
11:35:49 software and a piece of data.
11:35:51 A piece of data that it would be the number.
11:35:58 What you're talking about there is if they made an
11:36:01 estimate, if there was a no read for some reason, a
11:36:04 clerk could go in or the billing person could go in and
11:36:07 calculate and use the estimate, enter a piece of data.
11:36:10 So the data can be changed as a result of billing.
11:36:16 >>CURTIS STOKES: But how often did we change it?
11:36:18 >> I don't have that information off the top of my
11:36:22 >>CURTIS STOKES: With addition of new staff, we have
11:36:24 the ability to go in and manually change --
11:36:27 >> We were looking at, if I remember correctly, we had
11:36:30 about 15 no reads per cycle, which meant about 300 per
11:36:37 month that had to be resolved.
11:36:40 So they either required that a re-read was entered, or
11:36:44 that an estimate was entered.
11:36:46 That's the quantity that I'm aware of.
11:36:50 >>CURTIS STOKES: So that's about 2,000 misreads that we
11:36:52 have had between April, April an December?
11:36:57 Do we know who that is and what effect the weather,
11:37:00 leaking toilets had on those 2,000 clients?
11:37:03 >> We have checked that for the -- that
11:37:05 November-December time frame.
11:37:08 They don't line up.
11:37:09 I think there was about eight that overlapped between
11:37:11 the complaints and those types of rereads that had to
11:37:15 be entered.
11:37:16 We'll check on that and give you that information.
11:37:20 But we were looking at the overlap again for the
11:37:22 November-December time frame.
11:37:24 >>CURTIS STOKES: And also how often the clerk went in
11:37:26 and corrected or, the bills between --
11:37:32 >> Again, 300 times --
11:37:34 >>CURTIS STOKES: But we'll determine how often she went
11:37:37 into the system and changed the factors within the
11:37:39 system to adjust bills.
11:37:41 >> Again, only a piece of data, not the operating part
11:37:44 of the software.
11:37:46 But a piece of data, just like it's downloaded from the
11:37:49 handheld, about 15 times per cycle of reading, there
11:37:55 has to be some sort of adjustment.
11:37:57 That's an average number.
11:37:59 >>CURTIS STOKES: Also next week, I'll be brief,
11:38:01 Mr. Chairman.
11:38:02 Meter readers are salaried or hourly?
11:38:10 >> Meter readers are hourly.
11:38:12 >> So if they were doing their jobs and going home,
11:38:15 were they paid for eight hours or paid for three hours?
11:38:18 >> In the water department, they work the eight hours
11:38:21 and record their time in and out.
11:38:25 >>CURTIS STOKES: If they Finnish their route early, say
11:38:27 in four hours, were they paid for eight hours or four
11:38:31 >> In the water department organization, they work for
11:38:33 eight hours.
11:38:34 If they leave after four hours, they get paid for four
11:38:38 They're supposed to stay for eight hours, read the
11:38:40 routes and then do other work.
11:38:44 >>CURTIS STOKES: But the audit says that you're basing
11:38:48 your findings, conclusions that they, the incentive was
11:38:52 to finish a route early and go home.
11:38:54 >> Prior to coming to the water department, that was
11:38:56 their mode of operation.
11:39:01 >>CURTIS STOKES: All right.
11:39:02 Thank you.
11:39:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Finally got that answer.
11:39:06 Councilmember Caetano?
11:39:09 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Done, Mr. Stokes?
11:39:11 >>CURTIS STOKES: Yes, sir.
11:39:12 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Daignault, I just got a bill
11:39:15 the other day, on the third of the month.
11:39:17 Are you aware of the bill I got?
11:39:19 >> Yes, sir.
11:39:19 >> When I looked at the bill, I said boy, my water
11:39:22 usage doubled.
11:39:23 So went out and read the meter.
11:39:25 And it was nowheres near the actual reading that the
11:39:28 meter reader took.
11:39:30 And that was reader number 225-1877.
11:39:33 I understand he's one of the new meter readers that we
11:39:38 And if I hadn't looked at it and paid the bill, it
11:39:41 probably got calling up on the next cycle.
11:39:44 But, a lot of people don't want to face that.
11:39:48 How could he make a mistake?
11:39:50 >> Sir, I can only sit here and speculate.
11:39:52 As you've spoken earlier, they have to read the dials.
11:39:55 If the reading is too high, the machine beeps.
11:39:59 I don't know beeped in that case.
11:40:01 It was an erroneous read.
11:40:03 You're absolutely correct.
11:40:07 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: So the meter beeps you say?
11:40:09 >> The handheld, when you enter a number that is too
11:40:11 high will beep, yes.
11:40:14 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: The new readers have that device?
11:40:16 The new people?
11:40:17 >> All the meter readers enter their number, internal
11:40:21 auditor called it a Radix machine.
11:40:25 We call it handheld device.
11:40:28 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Back in October and November I
11:40:30 also spiked on my water bill.
11:40:32 I didn't look at that particular bill.
11:40:34 All right.
11:40:37 Thank you.
11:40:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilmember Miranda?
11:40:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11:40:44 Just a couple quick things.
11:40:45 When you spoke about a hundred CCFs, sounds very
11:40:50 A hundred CCFs, 150 CCFs is 112,200 gallons of
11:40:56 So even though 150 sounds real small when you multiply
11:41:01 it about 148, it's a lot.
11:41:05 Unless you own a couple acres of land.
11:41:08 We are saying that we're all a hundred percent
11:41:11 correct -- let me say this.
11:41:12 First of all, this would have never got to a point in
11:41:14 the length of time if we had a review each
11:41:17 Councilmember beforehand.
11:41:18 We never had that.
11:41:19 We never read this thing.
11:41:20 That's already been said.
11:41:22 We say that a hundred percent of the meters that were
11:41:24 read were correct.
11:41:25 And at the same time we admit that we have had dead
11:41:28 meters, meters under cars.
11:41:30 Meters covered with asphalt.
11:41:33 Meters that had a house under it, over it.
11:41:35 Meters that had a fence around it.
11:41:39 Was that for one month, one year, two years?
11:41:42 Five years?
11:41:42 I don't know.
11:41:43 So what I'm saying is, then we speak about the call
11:41:48 Have we had a reduction in staff in the last year and a
11:41:51 I don't know.
11:41:52 What is the cost of the analytical study to make all
11:41:58 these things practical where you just drive by and get
11:42:01 the read?
11:42:02 Have we come up to any conclusion of changing the
11:42:04 meters and what the cost is?
11:42:05 20 million, 30 million?
11:42:07 Because the prorate, what's the return back on the
11:42:10 I don't know.
11:42:11 We have done very little to come up with a resolution
11:42:14 of how to solve a long-term solution to this problem.
11:42:18 We're only speaking about the pimple, not root.
11:42:22 Secondly, we talk about tiers.
11:42:24 Like it's a nasty thing.
11:42:27 Tiers were put in for one thing only.
11:42:30 Why conservation?
11:42:33 I'm going to tell you right now and history will prove
11:42:36 me right, that in 15 years, if we had no additional
11:42:39 water supply, we'd be out of water in the City of
11:42:42 And you can forget about light rail, speed rail this
11:42:45 rail, airplanes, rockets to the moon.
11:42:47 If you don't have water, you don't have any development
11:42:49 at all.
11:42:50 So you'd better focus on water, whoever the next
11:42:54 administration, and the rest will come later.
11:42:56 But if you focus on things that are pie in the sky and
11:43:00 cherry pie with ice cream on top of it, at the end of
11:43:03 the day you'll have everything you want and no one
11:43:06 living here because you don't have the water.
11:43:07 It's not me.
11:43:08 That's history telling you what it is.
11:43:10 Wars are fought over water.
11:43:11 Today, we're debating water for over an hour.
11:43:14 We are debating because it's the most important thing
11:43:17 we have in this universe.
11:43:18 Same amount of water, only thing that's a population,
11:43:22 is, I don't know, maybe seven times more when I was a
11:43:25 young man.
11:43:26 That was only two years ago.
11:43:28 [ Laughter ]
11:43:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So, what I'm saying is that we have
11:43:32 not addressed our problems.
11:43:33 Do we need additional people in the call centers?
11:43:36 We talk about retraining.
11:43:38 How can you train -- why do we say that when we had the
11:43:41 same employees out there for 15, 20 years?
11:43:44 I mean, I don't understand it.
11:43:47 I really don't.
11:43:48 And I can tell you one thing.
11:43:50 Maybe I should say it public, but if it crossed my
11:43:53 mine, I will say it.
11:43:54 None of you have come up here and seemed comfortable
11:43:58 Your voice is rattled.
11:43:59 You seem uncertain.
11:44:00 Not that you are.
11:44:02 But that's a perception that I get.
11:44:03 So I'm troubled that we don't have here's plan A,
11:44:09 here's what we have done.
11:44:10 Everybody's made a mistake but us.
11:44:12 I can tell you we made mistakes somewhere.
11:44:14 They have played a lot of mistakes.
11:44:17 The public doesn't understand that a leaking toilet
11:44:20 with flappers caught up in the chain will give you a
11:44:23 big bill, because if you have an old toilet that's six
11:44:25 to eight gallons a flush and it's running 24 hours a
11:44:29 day for 30 days, you're going to have on enormous bill.
11:44:33 It's not a drip and a drop.
11:44:34 It's a flush.
11:44:35 A flush, six, eight gallons, new ones are one or two
11:44:39 But if you multiply that out per second, per minute,
11:44:41 per hour, per day, per month, you're going to get two,
11:44:45 three thousand dollars bill.
11:44:46 So what it is, we need education.
11:44:49 We got to tell the public how to do it.
11:44:51 And I think -- there's an old saying in Spanish that
11:44:54 says [Speaking Spanish]
11:44:56 You figure it out, let me know what I said.
11:45:00 [ Laughter ]
11:45:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I made you smile.
11:45:06 What that means, out of no wrong doing, there should
11:45:09 always come something that's beneficial.
11:45:11 Translation, you lose the meaning of it.
11:45:13 But that's what it is.
11:45:14 And out of this monstrosity that we have to deal with
11:45:18 today, there will be some good done.
11:45:20 On both sides.
11:45:21 I think that the public would understand the value of
11:45:24 water, and we'll understand that the staffing, the
11:45:29 needs, necessities to make this system work.
11:45:32 Any utility company, that's what we are in, water is
11:45:36 going to have their problems from time to time.
11:45:38 No matter who you are.
11:45:39 When you got 120 some thousand customers, there will be
11:45:43 some clerical error somewhere made and should be
11:45:48 I'm not here to badger anybody or bang anybody over the
11:45:52 But I think we all agree that this problem has to be
11:45:54 resolved and it has to be resolved in a timely matter,
11:45:58 with a futuristic look of how we're going to solve the
11:46:02 future expansion of this program, including the water
11:46:04 supply, which we have never addressed.
11:46:06 Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
11:46:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
11:46:09 Motion then to continue this item till, and to bring
11:46:12 back all the questions that have been requested by
11:46:14 Council next week.
11:46:15 The 24th, I believe, is that right?
11:46:22 Going to have to be.
11:46:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Are you waiting for the Council to
11:46:27 leave, is that what you're saying?
11:46:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes, sir.
11:46:29 I think we should come back in two weeks.
11:46:31 [ Laughter ]
11:46:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's up to this Council.
11:46:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No.
11:46:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So that's a motion.
11:46:41 Motion by Councilmember Stokes, with second.
11:46:44 Moved and second.
11:46:44 All in favor signify by saying aye.
11:46:47 Then item 72.
11:46:49 Can we just spend small amount of time on that so I can
11:46:54 get the.
11:46:56 Item 72, this is the averaging of the water bills.
11:47:00 >> That's what we have been discussing, there chairman.
11:47:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Legally I think, the attorney was
11:47:06 supposed to address it.
11:47:08 Yes, sir?
11:47:08 >> Chip Fletcher, city attorney.
11:47:10 We looked at this motion and it really has two parts.
11:47:13 First is the determination that there's not reasonable
11:47:17 basis for the bill.
11:47:20 And the second part is then what you do if there's no
11:47:24 evidentiary basis for the bill.
11:47:27 Right now, in section 26-30 paren B, we have a process
11:47:34 for essentially adjudication of disputed bills.
11:47:39 It provides that there will be an opportunity for
11:47:41 hearing, an opportunity to present evidence.
11:47:43 We would recommend making that process a little bit
11:47:47 more robust, putting in time lines, little more
11:47:50 structure in that process.
11:47:53 Then determination be made based on the greater weight
11:47:57 of the evidence.
11:47:58 That's the part of determining if there's a reasonable
11:48:00 basis for the bill, based on the evidence.
11:48:03 Then if it's not, if there's not evidence to support a
11:48:08 determination, then we would recommend going in to an
11:48:12 estimate based on historic usage.
11:48:14 I don't, wouldn't recommend using the word average,
11:48:18 because there may be instances where the 14 month
11:48:21 average is not appropriate.
11:48:22 There may be a better estimate based on say seasonal
11:48:27 trends or some other information.
11:48:29 But it should be a case-by-case determination in each
11:48:33 And we would -- we have not worked with the water
11:48:36 department on this, but from a legal standpoint, this
11:48:39 is more of an adjudication process and determination of
11:48:43 what is a fair process, to be determined on a bill by
11:48:47 bill basis and we think this is a fair process for
11:48:50 resolve it when there's not evidence to support a
11:48:53 particular determination of the water usage.
11:48:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Councilmember Mulhern?
11:48:59 >>MARY MULHERN: Evidence -- who has to provide the
11:49:04 The customer?
11:49:06 >> Well, it would be up to the person supporting the
11:49:09 bill and the person opposing the bill.
11:49:11 You would be able to provide that evidence.
11:49:14 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
11:49:14 So we -- we have -- I don't know the numbers, but let's
11:49:22 say a low estimate, six or seven thousand complaints
11:49:26 over two months of bills that are not historically in
11:49:36 Based on a year's worth.
11:49:40 To me, I don't understand -- I mean, I think you're
11:49:47 putting the burden on the customer when we are the ones
11:49:51 that have and still haven't been able to explain why
11:49:56 their bill was so high.
11:49:57 And the individual complaints that are getting
11:49:59 adjudicated are not -- this is what, what's happening,
11:50:04 water department goes out there and says if you have a
11:50:08 leak, we'll let you.
11:50:10 But we know -- we know that those leaks aren't the
11:50:16 I have not seen any evidence that connecting even one
11:50:23 high water bill by -- what are they?
11:50:28 CFLs or whatever.
11:50:30 CCFs, to how much their usage went up.
11:50:34 So I don't see why we cannot ask that the water bills
11:50:42 that have been elevated from I guess, you know, even
11:50:47 just for November, December, January shouldn't be --
11:50:58 that the next bill, because we know which bills have
11:51:03 gone up by whatever percentage, and we can talk about
11:51:06 that and you can come back with an ordinance for us if
11:51:08 that's what it is -- ordinance or resolution we were
11:51:11 going to ask for this?
11:51:12 Because it relates to, you know, we set the fees.
11:51:17 So, how can Council do that?
11:51:20 >> We're mixing a whole lot of things in together here.
11:51:23 First of all, to get back to the issue of whose burden
11:51:28 is it to prove?
11:51:31 What I described, if the evidence doesn't support the
11:51:33 bill, then you go to the estimate.
11:51:36 So it would be up to the water department to prove up
11:51:40 the bill.
11:51:41 Now, if the customer wanted to dispute that, they would
11:51:46 have the opportunity to do that but without any
11:51:49 evidence from the water department as to the accuracy
11:51:51 of the bill, you would go into this, into the
11:51:56 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay, we're talking about two months,
11:51:58 two or three months worth of water bills.
11:52:01 You're talking about a process that if every person
11:52:05 came to you -- how much time, staff time and cost would
11:52:11 that be to us?
11:52:13 >> I can't speak to that.
11:52:14 But what I can say is I do not believe it's reasonable
11:52:18 to en masse estimate billing, because I think from what
11:52:24 I've seen -- and I did not receive the report --
11:52:28 >>MARY MULHERN: You don't do it in en masse.
11:52:30 You do it individually.
11:52:31 But you don't do it with an investigation where the
11:52:33 water department has to go out there.
11:52:35 You do it individually for each high water user, for
11:52:40 their next bill.
11:52:41 I mean, it would cost a lot less to do that than it
11:52:47 would -- you know -- the only reason that wouldn't make
11:52:51 sense to do -- I know, it's not good for us because we
11:52:54 lose revenue because a lot of people are just going to
11:52:56 pay it because they're worried -- people are still
11:52:59 We have these assurances, nobody's water will be turned
11:53:03 >> Ma'am, let me clear on this.
11:53:05 The code says if there is a dispute, the water cannot
11:53:08 be turned off until the dispute is resolved through the
11:53:12 process that I described that's in the code.
11:53:14 It's in the code.
11:53:16 It's the process they follow --
11:53:19 >>MARY MULHERN: So what do they have to do?
11:53:21 >> I'll read it to you.
11:53:22 The city shall have the authority to refuse utility
11:53:26 service to a customer until such time as the bill is
11:53:29 paid in full unless the customer disputes the bill and
11:53:33 requests the director of the appropriate department
11:53:36 providing the serve in writing to provide the customer
11:53:39 with an administrative hearing to resolve the dispute.
11:53:42 So if there's a dispute, it's a question in writing,
11:53:47 until it's adjudicated the water or the serve cannot be
11:53:53 And they have been following that process.
11:53:56 >>MARY MULHERN: So the individuals with the high water
11:53:58 bills just need to write a letter disputing it?
11:54:01 And that means that they will, that the burden is on
11:54:07 the water department to investigate and.
11:54:13 >> And I believe that's the process that's been being
11:54:16 I don't know if they have been requiring them to do it
11:54:19 in writing.
11:54:19 But that's the process that has been followed to my
11:54:25 >>MARY MULHERN: Is that what you're doing?
11:54:30 >> I think it would probably be good if we could have
11:54:33 this conversation after you have read the report.
11:54:35 There are numbers in there that show you how many
11:54:37 complaints and how they have been resolved to this
11:54:40 And there's some pending.
11:54:42 But to answer your question directly, yes.
11:54:44 Each customer, and I realize some are having trouble
11:54:47 getting through the call center, but each customer we
11:54:49 are dealing with on a case-by-case basis.
11:54:52 If their usage is due to a break or a leak or something
11:54:56 that can be seen and substantiated, their spike above
11:55:01 their average is being reduced to the lowest tier.
11:55:04 If it's for some reason that is unknown, nobody can
11:55:07 decide why, we are looking back at their prior usage
11:55:12 and we're again on a case-by-case basis, able to
11:55:16 average that over a longer period of time and reduce
11:55:19 their bill.
11:55:20 And that's how we're dealing with every customer.
11:55:22 >>MARY MULHERN: So you are doing that?
11:55:24 >> We are doing that we have done that, in the order of
11:55:27 six, seven hundred customers at this point.
11:55:30 >>MARY MULHERN: So if you don't find the leak.
11:55:34 >> That is correct.
11:55:35 We are dealing with them on a case-by-case basis.
11:55:39 >>MARY MULHERN: Then you will average that bill?
11:55:41 >> Again, on a case-by-case basis.
11:55:43 Somebody's usage went up 30% may not necessarily, you
11:55:49 know --
11:55:50 >>MARY MULHERN: We are not talking about 30%.
11:55:52 >> I understand.
11:55:52 And that's why we say case-by-case.
11:55:55 Because some cases are just a blip and some are
11:55:58 So, we have to look at their usage history and a
11:56:01 case-by-case basis, we are doing that, yes.
11:56:05 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, okay.
11:56:08 So I guess then -- confirm for me what, somebody who
11:56:13 got a water bill that's three times as much as usual,
11:56:18 what should they do -- I know they can't get through
11:56:22 because of the call center.
11:56:24 >> If they can't get through to somebody on the phone,
11:56:27 they should send us an e-mail.
11:56:28 We have triaged all of the e-mails that we have
11:56:31 received to date and all of the phone calls that we
11:56:33 have received to date.
11:56:35 So if they have still not contacted anybody by e-mail
11:56:39 or phone, they should contact us and we'll deal with
11:56:41 their situation on an individual basis.
11:56:44 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
11:56:45 What's the e-mail address they should send this to?
11:56:53 >> It's the customer service center, the message
11:56:55 center -- how can we put that out?
11:56:59 >>MARY MULHERN: You just go to Tampa gov.net and go to
11:57:03 the customer service center.
11:57:06 >> Yes.
11:57:07 Bill inquiries or send to it me or Eli or Brad
11:57:11 A number of people are addressing them directly to us.
11:57:14 That would be fine.
11:57:16 Or again, utility bill section under there.
11:57:19 Any of those would be fine.
11:57:22 We're capturing all those, no matter which way they
11:57:25 >>MARY MULHERN: People who don't have a computer can
11:57:27 just mail a letter to the water department.
11:57:30 >> Yes, ma'am, they can do that.
11:57:32 >>MARY MULHERN: So then, that's my question for
11:57:34 Mr. Fletcher then, thank you, Mr. Daignault.
11:57:37 So, you send a letter, or you call or you send an
11:57:43 e-mail, questioning, contesting your bill, your water
11:57:50 will not be cut off?
11:57:52 >> Correct.
11:57:54 >>MARY MULHERN: And there will be follow-up?
11:57:59 This will be an interesting thing, maybe to add to our
11:58:03 questions for next week's report, is, what would be the
11:58:07 cost to the city of investigating every one of those
11:58:11 high water bills?
11:58:12 Once we get the numbers of how many there are.
11:58:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
11:58:17 Well, they can bring that next week.
11:58:19 Let's move, five minutes to 12.
11:58:22 Item 74, just in a minute, tell us if you can recycle
11:58:28 these or not.
11:58:29 If north, let's move on.
11:58:34 >> Good morning, Council.
11:58:35 Yes, we do have plans for recycling campaign signs.
11:58:40 They can be, the campaign staff and public really,
11:58:44 volunteers are responsible for collecting them.
11:58:46 However, us partnering with department of code
11:58:49 enforcement will be picking them up out of the
11:58:54 But the remaining signs can be picked up and dropped
11:58:56 off at solid waste, 4010 west Spruce Street.
11:59:00 We'll give directions.
11:59:01 We'll have two dumpsters available for recycling those
11:59:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you very much.
11:59:06 Very good.
11:59:07 Thank you.
11:59:08 Okay, item 75.
11:59:12 Councilman Stokes, I believe this was your item.
11:59:21 >> Good morning, Council.
11:59:22 Got a short one-page fact sheet to provide you which
11:59:25 was requested through the motion.
11:59:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think the intent was, Councilmember
11:59:32 Caetano sent a motion through him about continuing the
11:59:34 item to the next administration.
11:59:36 That was the issue.
11:59:37 But we told them that they can't tell the
11:59:39 administration what to do.
11:59:40 So okay, let's have a report.
11:59:42 I'm trying to cut through the chase here.
11:59:48 >> I think it's being passed around there.
11:59:50 Basically, the request was to provide a status report.
11:59:58 The New Tampa Boulevard project.
12:00:03 There's a photograph on the fact sheet to orient you of
12:00:05 the location.
12:00:06 Although I think most of you are familiar with the
12:00:09 Description is provided as well.
12:00:10 This just explains this is a bridge that will connect
12:00:18 two streets in the New Tampa area that currently each
12:00:20 dead ends.
12:00:21 The project will bridge those two roads together over
12:00:24 the interstate without a connection to the interstate.
12:00:26 Facts about the project.
12:00:29 We have had this design complete since 2006.
12:00:33 For various reasons, it's not been pushed forward up
12:00:36 until this time.
12:00:37 We have all of our permitting completed.
12:00:40 That includes our SWFWMD permits.
12:00:42 Our DOT connection permit.
12:00:45 And our EPC permit, which we just recently resolved
12:00:48 through a board hearing.
12:00:50 We have now secured that permit and we can go forward.
12:00:52 The project is in, with our contract administration
12:00:57 department for processing.
12:00:59 We had our bid openings this week.
12:01:02 We're very excited.
12:01:03 We got a low bid on the project.
12:01:05 The bid was about $12.4 million.
12:01:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Ms. Dorsback, to answer his question,
12:01:13 he was trying to get it continued to next
12:01:16 According to this it's going to be docked March 10,
12:01:24 The next administration.
12:01:27 >> Currently we are looking at the April 7th agenda, to
12:01:29 place this on for approval of the award of the contract
12:01:32 to the contractor.
12:01:35 >> I think the only other addition I'd add, in the
12:01:39 material it says the bridge to no where.
12:01:41 It should read the New Tampa Boulevard bridge.
12:01:43 >> Thank you.
12:01:44 That is the name of the project.
12:01:47 >>CURTIS STOKES: Thank you.
12:01:49 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Ms. Dorsback, the next administration
12:01:51 could deny this and not award the bid, correct?
12:01:55 >> That is correct.
12:01:56 The process is the contract will be presented to
12:01:59 Council for approval and the new mayor for approval.
12:02:03 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: So after 20 years, it could go
12:02:05 down the drain?
12:02:07 >> Well, I don't want to speculate.
12:02:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, you're making an assumption.
12:02:14 You don't know what the next administration is going to
12:02:18 Assumption could be pretty well could move forward.
12:02:23 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Mayor, would you sign it?
12:02:25 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'm not mayor.
12:02:27 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I know.
12:02:27 I said if.
12:02:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's not an if.
12:02:33 >> The facts are that the next Council will approve the
12:02:36 contract and the next mayor will sign the contract for
12:02:40 awarding the contractor.
12:02:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, ma'am, very much.
12:02:45 Item 76 -- yes, sir?
12:02:49 >> I want to remind Council, it is noon.
12:02:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
12:02:53 >> I make a motion that we go through the lunch hour.
12:02:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
12:02:59 All in favor signify by saying aye.
12:03:00 Thank you, sir.
12:03:02 Item 76.
12:03:04 Item 76.
12:03:05 This is a closed public hearing as I understand.
12:03:09 And I recognize that there was request on the public
12:03:13 comment I guess that we reopen this by Miss Margaret
12:03:18 My concern is that it's been advertised by, to the
12:03:22 public that it's closed and no public comment will be
12:03:24 I understand number of folk have decided not to come
12:03:28 because of that.
12:03:29 So my concern to Council at this point, would you open
12:03:31 it based on the fact that some people have made the
12:03:33 decision not to come because they were not told they
12:03:38 wasn't going to take any additional testimony?
12:03:41 >>MARY MULHERN: This is continued first read -- no, the
12:03:45 >> For first reading.
12:03:46 >> First reading.
12:03:49 >>MARY MULHERN: I think it would be more fair not to
12:03:51 open it since people weren't here anticipating that.
12:03:55 And whatever questions, if it passes, they'll come up.
12:04:00 Second reading.
12:04:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: If it passes, then it will be another
12:04:04 public hearing, is that right?
12:04:06 >> Yes, it will be a public hearing.
12:04:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: If it doesn't pass, then, it's over.
12:04:12 >>MARY MULHERN: But I just don't think -- I don't know.
12:04:16 I think it's not fair since people weren't expecting
12:04:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Very quickly if I may.
12:04:22 And I'm not against opening it, but let me say this.
12:04:25 This would have another bite at the apple on the second
12:04:28 This is the first reading.
12:04:30 The second reading, the public certainly entitled to
12:04:33 state their views an why they're stating their views.
12:04:37 Although I'm not opposed to opening it, I say that
12:04:40 since the chairman spoke and my colleague Mulhern spoke
12:04:45 against opening it, there be no sevens me making a
12:04:48 motion to operate because it's not going to pass.
12:04:50 So I leave it the way it is and second reading, we have
12:04:53 that determination to speak on it very clearly.
12:04:59 >> So my question then, Mr. Chairman, for Councilmember
12:05:02 Stokes, Mr. Stokes, are you prepared to vote on this?
12:05:06 >>CURTIS STOKES: Yes, I am then Madam Clerk, you can
12:05:08 proceed with taking the vote.
12:05:10 The motion was made, the public hearing is closed, the
12:05:13 motion was made by Council.
12:05:17 It was made by Councilmember Caetano, seconded by
12:05:21 Councilmember Miller that the ordinance be approved on
12:05:24 first reading by title only and published.
12:05:26 Further that the ordinance be amended to include the
12:05:28 revision specified by Katherine coil, Land Development
12:05:32 And the title was read in full.
12:05:33 Again, to refresh Council's recollection, you have on
12:05:37 the agenda what the vote was.
12:05:39 The motion was not adopted.
12:05:42 There was a 3-3 vote.
12:05:46 >> Mr. Chair, do I have this set up if you would like
12:05:49 to at the as a recorded vote.
12:05:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: A recorded vote?
12:05:53 >> Your choice how you wish to do it.
12:05:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We can take a voice vote.
12:05:58 That's fine.
12:05:58 There was a motion and there was a second, all in favor
12:06:01 of that may signify by saying aye.
12:06:08 >> Scott, Miranda and Mulhern voting no --
12:06:13 >>GWEN MILLER: No.
12:06:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You better record the vote.
12:06:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let's do the voice roll call.
12:06:21 You got it set up?
12:06:26 Okay, that's fine.
12:06:29 Record your vote.
12:06:38 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Capin, Mulhern and
12:06:42 Miranda voting no.
12:06:44 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
12:06:45 Then the question for Council at this point is that,
12:06:51 that this can come, have to come back for second
12:06:54 reading, and I guess since this Council has done all
12:07:01 the work, what we want to have the second reading,
12:07:04 while this Council is still seated.
12:07:06 Which means we would have a special called meeting to
12:07:12 do that otherwise, the process probably going to have
12:07:14 to end up starting all over again with a new Council,
12:07:17 who is not familiar with this.
12:07:18 This issue.
12:07:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Can it come back next week?
12:07:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It can come back --
12:07:26 >> Any time -- sorry.
12:07:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 28th.
12:07:30 >> That would have to be on March 31st.
12:07:33 Otherwise it would come back on April 7th.
12:07:35 For a second reading and adoption.
12:07:38 >> My understanding is you can have it as long as it's
12:07:40 ten days publication.
12:07:42 So ten days after today would be after the 28th, would
12:07:45 you say, 29th let's say?
12:07:47 Conceivably, Council does have the option of saying,
12:07:50 let's say the 29th, 30th and 31st.
12:08:01 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't understand why this can't come
12:08:04 back, I mean, I think it should just come back for
12:08:10 second reading at the regular time with the next
12:08:13 Council, considering that it didn't come to us till the
12:08:17 end of this term, and that was the, I think the risk or
12:08:23 the decision of land use and legal, to bring it to us
12:08:31 at the last minute.
12:08:33 And I think this is part of the --
12:08:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's not accurate.
12:08:36 We worked on this thing almost a whole year as I
12:08:39 Someone from legal want to speak on that?
12:08:45 >>CATHERINE COYLE: This is as a result of an initial
12:08:46 workshop that was directed by City Council in March of
12:08:50 And from there, it carried forward through two other
12:08:53 City Council workshops and you motioned to place it in
12:08:55 the July cycle of last year.
12:08:57 It's just timing --
12:09:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: My point is to -- if it took us a year,
12:09:04 then you're talking about another year for the next
12:09:07 >> If I could refresh your recollection, the reason
12:09:10 that you're in this posture was because of the tie vote
12:09:13 last week.
12:09:14 Had it not been a tie vote and was able to move
12:09:17 forward, you would have had your second reading next
12:09:19 week with this Council.
12:09:22 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
12:09:22 So it's just going to be next week at our regular
12:09:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No, have to be a special call meeting.
12:09:28 >> Florida law requires ten days, between the first and
12:09:31 second reading, with notice of publication of the
12:09:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What is the earliest we can have sec
12:09:39 >>MARY MULHERN: Here's my question.
12:09:39 I didn't get an answer to my question.
12:09:41 Next week -- it has to be ten days?
12:09:46 So we'll have to have it when?
12:09:50 >> A special call.
12:09:52 >>MARY MULHERN: What day?
12:09:52 >> The earliest we could probably do, would be either
12:09:55 the 28th or the 29th, depending on the availability of
12:09:58 the chambers.
12:10:01 >>MARY MULHERN: We weren't having a meeting on the
12:10:03 31st, is that right?
12:10:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No.
12:10:05 My suggestion is that we have it the 29th, predicated
12:10:14 >> What day is that?
12:10:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Tuesday, do it Tuesday at 10:00 a.m.?
12:10:19 Charlie should be up by then.
12:10:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm having my four wisdom pulled,
12:10:27 [ Laughter ]
12:10:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
12:10:30 What's the pleasure of Council?
12:10:32 Need a motion.
12:10:33 >> I move we have a special called meeting on March the
12:10:35 29th at 10:00 a.m.
12:10:37 >> Second.
12:10:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
12:10:39 All in favor signify by saying aye.
12:10:44 >> Miranda no and Scott no?
12:10:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No.
12:10:52 >> And Capin.
12:10:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay then.
12:10:55 We have a special called meeting set for the 29th at
12:10:57 10:00 a.m. on this for public hearing.
12:11:00 Ms. Vizzi, you will have the opportunity to come back
12:11:02 on the 29th.
12:11:06 >> Mr. Chairman, my understanding, just so we are clear
12:11:09 for the clerk and purposes of the agenda, that will be
12:11:11 the only item to be taken up that day.
12:11:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, the only item on the agenda.
12:11:17 >> And information, new business normally is not set
12:11:19 for a special call meeting.
12:11:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No.
12:11:22 >> And public comment would just for the public
12:11:24 hearing, which is the purpose of the meeting.
12:11:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That is correct.
12:11:28 Thank you very kindly.
12:11:29 Item 77.
12:11:30 That's on the resolution.
12:11:39 >> Yes, Mr. Chairman.
12:11:41 If it's Council's pleasure to move forward with this
12:11:55 resolution, I'm proposing Council consider it with a
12:12:00 substitution of the substitution just clarifies the
12:12:03 fact that it is concerning restrictions placed upon
12:12:09 Florida's public state colleges and universities.
12:12:13 And other than that, Mr. Chairman, without getting into
12:12:17 great amount of detail, it is my hope that this is, the
12:12:24 reflection of City Council, that it expresses what City
12:12:28 Council wishes.
12:12:31 In my investigation, I will say that this issue is, as
12:12:35 you know, lot more involved than just this particular
12:12:41 But without specific direction from City Council, I am
12:12:44 not in a position to be able to draft something that
12:12:47 reflect your sentiment.
12:12:49 So waive crafted is presented for your approval.
12:12:52 If you wish to move the resolution, I would recommend
12:12:57 And if not, I would recommend that you don't.
12:13:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Council Miranda?
12:13:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The only question I have is this.
12:13:03 Why is this here?
12:13:06 Who brought it up?
12:13:07 Was this your initiative your own?
12:13:09 Or was it an initiative from the public?
12:13:12 Or was it an outcry in the community?
12:13:15 What was it?
12:13:16 Because like I said, am I for the embargo?
12:13:22 But I remember the text was brought on and said what
12:13:25 about the embargo?
12:13:27 I said I'm not for the embargo, but I didn't put it in
12:13:30 and I have no right to lift it.
12:13:31 And how did this get at where it's at today?
12:13:35 >> Councilmember Miranda, this was raised when Chairman
12:13:37 Scott had the discussion, a roundtable discussion a
12:13:42 while back at the county center, where there were
12:13:46 several invitees.
12:13:48 One of the invitees was a representative of the
12:13:51 University of South Florida.
12:13:54 Councilmember Mulhern was present at that, and there
12:13:56 was the discussion about this particular issue.
12:13:59 And it became a subject of concern.
12:14:03 And that's where this was raised.
12:14:08 And it was some discussion about how best to resolve it
12:14:12 at the time.
12:14:13 That's the genesis of it.
12:14:19 It was something of concern of the chairman.
12:14:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It came up at that particular
12:14:25 But last week when it came up, we were talking about
12:14:27 the issue of the flag an saying that was a moot issue.
12:14:30 However this issue should continue to be a law on the
12:14:33 books, rather than banning students from traveling, we
12:14:36 said maybe we should do a resolution relative to
12:14:38 allowing our students to be age to go to Cuba.
12:14:42 And I think you raised it.
12:14:44 >>MARY MULHERN: No, I didn't.
12:14:45 I supported whoever raised it.
12:14:46 But I agree that we shouldn't restrict them, but I
12:14:50 thought the whole thing -- maybe I'm wrong, but I
12:14:55 thought this started because we were, it was before our
12:15:00 flights to Cuba got approved, which just happened,
12:15:04 But I thought the resolution was that we were telling
12:15:09 Washington that we wanted Tampa to get those flights.
12:15:15 I thought we were reiterating that and then this got
12:15:19 tacked on.
12:15:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No.
12:15:21 >>MARY MULHERN: I have it all wrong.
12:15:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: But last meeting, because you said it
12:15:25 was a moot issue at that point, to get flight, because
12:15:28 that's moot issue.
12:15:29 Then we came back and said yeah, but let's still do the
12:15:33 As I recall from last meeting.
12:15:38 >> First of all, I want to apologize to Council for
12:15:41 putting you in this position.
12:15:42 My goal is to, whatever is reduced to writing,
12:15:46 expresses the true sentiment of Council.
12:15:48 This is a very sensitive -- there are multiple issues
12:15:51 and, what I need is specific direction, Council.
12:15:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Listen.
12:15:57 Do we want to approve the resolution or not?
12:16:00 Let's move it, let's move on.
12:16:02 Mr. Michelini, this is it no the time.
12:16:05 I got to get us through this agenda because I cannot
12:16:07 come back this afternoon.
12:16:08 Do we want, want to move the resolution or not?
12:16:11 Either way.
12:16:12 >> I move the resolution.
12:16:13 >> Second.
12:16:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
12:16:15 All in favor signify by saying aye.
12:16:18 Thank you.
12:16:21 Item 78 has been continued, right?
12:16:23 >> Yes.
12:16:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Been continued.
12:16:25 Item 79.
12:16:27 >> Mr. Chairman?
12:16:28 You will need to make a motion.
12:16:30 >> Move to open public hearing 78 through 85.
12:16:33 >> We need to make a motion on 78 to continue that
12:16:36 >> Right.
12:16:37 >> So moved to continue 78 to June 23rd, 2011 to
12:16:41 10:30 a.m.
12:16:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
12:16:44 We have opened all the public hearings.
12:16:46 Anyone here want to speak on the continuance?
12:16:48 Anyone want to speak on the continuance?
12:16:51 Been moved and second.
12:16:51 All in favor signify by saying aye.
12:16:55 Now, do we have anybody else here want to continue the
12:16:58 item on the agenda?
12:17:00 Is there anybody else here want to continue item on the
12:17:03 You have the privilege of continuing this to the new
12:17:07 Might have a better chance.
12:17:10 [ Laughter ]
12:17:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: 79.
12:17:22 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Thank you, Council.
12:17:23 Case V11-65 located at 304 East Davis Boulevard.
12:17:27 They are requesting a 4(COP-X).
12:17:31 The location contains about 900 square feet, indoor
12:17:35 37 parking spaces are located on-site.
12:17:37 Currently there's a 2(COP-R).
12:17:39 On the location.
12:17:40 It was previously a sushi restaurant.
12:17:43 You'll note it's on Davis Islands.
12:17:45 Within the small strip center.
12:17:47 At the very end, there's a subway adjacent to it.
12:17:51 This is the front view.
12:17:52 Next to the handy convenience store.
12:17:55 You'll note in the staff report that the proposed use
12:18:00 is a bar.
12:18:01 There are uses, specified uses within a thousand feet.
12:18:05 Waivers are noted on page one of the staff report.
12:18:07 General standards for your consideration are on pages
12:18:10 two through six.
12:18:11 There were no objections from staff.
12:18:13 I'm available for any questions.
12:18:20 >> Good afternoon, Council.
12:18:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Everyone stand to be sworn, if you're
12:18:25 going to be testifying, please stand to be sworn.
12:18:27 [Oath administered by Clerk]
12:18:36 >> Don Miller, City of Tampa police department has no
12:18:41 objection to special use two request.
12:18:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?
12:18:44 >> Mr. Chairman and Councilmember men's, Todd Pressman,
12:18:48 U.S. highway north, Clearwater, Florida.
12:18:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here in opposition to this
12:18:52 Anybody in opposition to this petition?
12:18:54 >> Move to close.
12:18:55 >> Second.
12:18:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
12:18:57 All in favor signify by saying aye.
12:18:58 Councilmember Stokes, you want to read it please?
12:19:04 >>CURTIS STOKES: An ordinance repealing orders 2004-211
12:19:10 approving special use permit ST for alcoholic beverage
12:19:14 sales large venue and making lawful sale of beverages
12:19:18 regardless of alcoholic content, 4(COP-X) only on
12:19:23 preparations, certain lot, plot, tract of land located
12:19:28 304 east Davis Boulevard, more particularly described
12:19:31 in section three here off, providing for repeal of all
12:19:35 ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.
12:19:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Awful in favor signify by saying aye.
12:19:40 >> Motion carried with Mulhern being absent.
12:19:42 Second reading and adoption will be April 7th, 2011 at
12:19:45 9:30 a.m.
12:19:47 >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman, thank you, Council.
12:19:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 80.
12:19:54 >> Thank you, Council, Catherine Coyle, Case V-11, 81,
12:19:58 located 2219 to 2227 south Dale Mabry Highway.
12:20:02 This also is a small strip center basically diagonal
12:20:06 from Plant High School on the west side of Dale Mabry.
12:20:08 This is the storefront under consideration today.
12:20:12 You'll note the staff report has several findings for
12:20:15 site plan modifications and inconsistencies.
12:20:18 I have spoken with Mr. Gardner, the applicant's
12:20:22 He has agreed to make all those changes to the site
12:20:24 plan that are required, between first and sec reading,
12:20:27 which I can acknowledge are minor changes that can be
12:20:30 done between first and second reading.
12:20:32 You'll note there are waivers on the front page, page
12:20:36 Items number one through five for local street access.
12:20:39 Maneuvering within the right-of-way, packing space
12:20:42 reduction waiver.
12:20:44 And then two, specified uses within a thousand feet.
12:20:47 The location contains 2635 square feet, all indoors.
12:20:52 And I believe that is the remaining items for you, page
12:20:59 5, pages five through eight contain the conditions of
12:21:02 the special use permanent for you to consider for the
12:21:05 Thank you.
12:21:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
12:21:08 Officer Miller?
12:21:12 >> Officer Miller, City of Tampa police department.
12:21:14 We have no objections.
12:21:17 >> I don't believe there are any objections.
12:21:18 I've talked to two members of the public that received
12:21:21 notice and have both expressed their support.
12:21:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone here from the public in
12:21:25 opposition to this petition, item 80?
12:21:28 Anyone from the public?
12:21:30 >> Move to close.
12:21:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
12:21:33 All in favor signify by saying aye.
12:21:36 Councilmember Mulhern?
12:21:37 Item 80.
12:21:42 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
12:21:43 I move an ordinance approving a special use permit S-2
12:21:45 for alcoholic beverage sales, small venue and making
12:21:50 lawful the sale of beverages containing alcohol by more
12:21:52 than 1% by weight and not more than 14% by weight and
12:21:55 wines regardless of alcoholic content.
12:21:58 Beer and wine (2-COP-R) for consumption on premises
12:22:01 only in connection with the restaurant business
12:22:02 establishment on that certain lot, plot or tract of
12:22:05 land located at 2219 through 2227 South Dale Mabry
12:22:09 Highway, Tampa, Florida, as more particularly described
12:22:13 in Section 2 hereof, providing for repeal of all
12:22:18 ordinances in conflict; providing an effective date.
12:22:19 >> Ms. Mulhern, if you could add as part of your motion
12:22:23 to include the conditions on the staff report to have
12:22:25 those placed on the site plan between first and second
12:22:29 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
12:22:29 To include the conditions on the staff report to be
12:22:32 included on the site plan between first and second
12:22:36 >> Second.
12:22:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
12:22:38 Second by Councilmember Stokes.
12:22:40 All in favor signify by saying aye.
12:22:44 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried.
12:22:45 Second reading and adoption will be held April 7, 2011,
12:22:49 9:30 a.m.
12:22:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 81?
12:22:59 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Case V11-106, located at 2112
12:23:03 through 2132 West Main Street.
12:23:08 They are requesting 4(COP) for full beer and wine and
12:23:11 liquor, on and off the premises.
12:23:13 What's unique, there are two separate buildings noted
12:23:16 on the site plan.
12:23:17 Building one and building two.
12:23:19 There is a current 4(COP) within the existing bar and
12:23:23 club Zanzibar, located in building two sitting on lot
12:23:27 They are proposing to move that bar to building one,
12:23:30 which is lying on lot seven.
12:23:33 And within building two, where the current bar is,
12:23:36 they're going to change that to a package store.
12:23:38 There's also a total of approximately 12,196 square
12:23:44 feet being proposed between the two buildings.
12:23:46 That includes, there's a 76 square foot gap between the
12:23:51 buildings as well of land.
12:23:52 You'll note there are five waivers on page one of the
12:23:55 staff report, including the specified uses within a
12:23:58 thousand feet.
12:23:59 Parking reduction of 164 to 55 spaces.
12:24:03 And drive aisle reducing from 24 to 23 for an existing
12:24:08 You'll note on pages 2 and 3, that there are additional
12:24:15 notes needing to be placed on the site plan.
12:24:17 In addition to that, they will need to place the legal
12:24:20 Cut out legal description on the site plan as well.
12:24:23 That's under number two for land development.
12:24:25 The objection that comes from number one is through
12:24:28 transportation noting they believe the parking
12:24:30 reduction is excessive from 164 to 55.
12:24:33 The site itself, a good portion of the facade, on the
12:24:42 south side of main, essentially backs up, the vacant
12:24:45 lot where some of the parking goes.
12:24:47 Essentially backs up to what is now Laurel Frontage
12:24:51 Road, 275 expansion.
12:24:53 I will note as well that the applicant has applied for
12:25:01 administrative consideration of offsite parking there.
12:25:04 Is one pending approval for I believe approximately
12:25:07 nine spaces that meet the code criteria with a lease as
12:25:11 So there would be an additional nine spaces they would
12:25:14 The code criteria for you to consider, as noted in
12:25:21 previous reports, pages four through seven, include the
12:25:26 special use criteria.
12:25:27 And you'll note the additional condition from solid
12:25:31 An attachment to your staff report which includes the
12:25:33 graphic on how to change the dumpster.
12:25:35 I have spoken with the applicant's representative.
12:25:37 They are amenable to making the required site plan
12:25:40 And I believe there are additional conditions from
12:25:43 Tampa Police Department.
12:25:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Officer Miller?
12:26:03 >> Good afternoon, Councilmember.
12:26:04 Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa Police Department.
12:26:08 Police department doesn't have any outward objections,
12:26:10 but we have many concerns in reference this particular
12:26:12 wet zoning.
12:26:13 Basically right now, the bar in question has been
12:26:18 somewhat of a problem for the on staff police officers.
12:26:21 On routine patrol, usually after 3:00 hour, on Friday
12:26:26 and Saturday night at 3:00 a.m., we do have to pull
12:26:30 patrol units off the street to close down the subject
12:26:35 With the additional 580 total capacity, which is being
12:26:39 brought to you today, from the 110 that we already
12:26:42 having problems with, some of the things we'd like to
12:26:45 put in the ordinance are additional officers to be used
12:26:48 for off duty capacity at the point of 250 count.
12:26:52 Two officers to be assigned there.
12:26:55 And if we reach to the level of 400 patrons, in the
12:27:00 bar, we're looking at another additional two officers
12:27:03 for total of four patrolmen if over the 400 incumbent.
12:27:07 I know the, spoke with the petitioner.
12:27:10 A lot is going to be modified move-in as far as
12:27:14 starting slow and working its way up.
12:27:16 So a lot of variables that we have to lack at during
12:27:18 the time.
12:27:20 The big concern, like I said, is the jump from the 110
12:27:23 capacity to the 580.
12:27:25 Using the additional manpower, which is spread thin as
12:27:29 it is.
12:27:30 And to talk to you about that, I'm going to bring in
12:27:33 lieutenant Keith O'Connor with the City of Tampa police
12:27:36 District one command.
12:27:37 He'll talk about manpower usage and what possible
12:27:42 concerns they have.
12:27:45 >> Good afternoon, Council.
12:27:46 I'm Lieutenant Keith O'Connor with Tampa Police
12:27:48 Department representing district one.
12:27:51 Like Officer Miller said, our concerns is the
12:27:54 additional capacity.
12:27:55 As it stands now, being the midnight lieutenant out
12:27:58 there, what I have to do to address the problems with
12:28:02 the, with the bar is that right now, it's Friday night,
12:28:07 their busy night.
12:28:08 So every Friday night we monitor the club.
12:28:11 In addition to the patrons that go into the club, we
12:28:14 have approximately 200 to 300 people who gather outside
12:28:17 the club and never enter the club.
12:28:19 So we have two problems.
12:28:20 We have the club patrons and then we have the
12:28:23 At 3:00 a.m., when the club closes, everyone spill into
12:28:27 the street and that's where our biggest concern is,
12:28:32 what we typically do is shut down Main Street, from
12:28:35 Howard Avenue to Fremont Avenue.
12:28:37 That's a two block stretch.
12:28:39 We only allow the cars to leave.
12:28:41 I have to bring four to six officers to accomplish
12:28:44 On a typical Friday night in addition to that, while
12:28:49 the club is open, every available space that you see
12:28:52 here in the yellow is filled with cars.
12:28:54 And then it spills over into the neighborhood.
12:28:58 I have another little chart here that I think you have,
12:29:01 that I've highlighted in green where the, basically
12:29:07 where people park right now.
12:29:09 Anded extend onto union, to Albany into the
12:29:13 And that's where it is with 110 people.
12:29:16 I extended that line in the red, if we were to jump
12:29:19 five times that amount, essentially people would have
12:29:22 to park into the neighborhoods if everything stayed the
12:29:25 So that's the big concern, is now we're going to
12:29:28 increase the problem for the neighborhoods.
12:29:30 And we are not budgeted to always send the officers
12:29:33 We don't have additional officers to pull there.
12:29:36 But we are willing to work with the owners.
12:29:38 They're willing to work with us.
12:29:40 Obviously, if their space increases, we can get more
12:29:45 people inside.
12:29:46 That should alleviate some trouble.
12:29:48 With people inside, we may not have as much trouble on
12:29:50 the streets.
12:29:51 So we're willing to work with them.
12:29:53 Where everyone is going to park, I can't tell you.
12:29:56 That's just speculation on our part.
12:29:57 But basically our concerns are, if they, if it does
12:30:01 open like they say, there are two levels here.
12:30:03 Main level will open up first.
12:30:05 And then a period of time will pass and I believe we'll
12:30:09 be able to make adjustments and see where we're at
12:30:12 before the next level opens up.
12:30:14 And then we'll have a better understanding of what the
12:30:16 manpower capacity that we're going to require to send
12:30:19 down there.
12:30:20 But like Officer Miller said, if they follow up and get
12:30:24 the off duty, that should alleviate.
12:30:26 And then we can adjust accordingly in the future.
12:30:30 That's all I have on that.
12:30:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any questions by Council?
12:30:35 Any questions by Council?
12:30:38 Thank you.
12:30:43 >> Lieutenant?
12:30:44 How many arrests have you made there in the last year?
12:30:48 >> The arrests, there are not many arrests talent club.
12:30:52 When you pull up the address.
12:30:53 But like I said, it's the problems after.
12:30:56 And we can't really pinpoint -- there are a number of
12:31:00 problems, and it's more of a crowd control issue, in
12:31:03 getting everyone out.
12:31:05 And to say how many -- I done have that number of how
12:31:08 many arrests.
12:31:09 But the arrests associated with the club on a Friday
12:31:12 night extend for blocks.
12:31:13 So as the crowd disperses, there can be a fight here.
12:31:16 There have been shootings in the neighborhood.
12:31:18 There are people who get robbed, the things that happen
12:31:22 that we associate with the club, but they don't happen
12:31:24 at the address of the club.
12:31:27 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: How many officers do they employ,
12:31:29 off duty officers?
12:31:30 >> None right now.
12:31:32 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: None?
12:31:32 >> Right.
12:31:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Petitioner?
12:31:45 Is the petitioner here?
12:31:57 >> Mr. Chairman --
12:32:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I suggest you start by answering the
12:32:05 >> Like to state my address.
12:32:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: State your name.
12:32:10 >> Councilmembers --
12:32:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Hasn't changed since the last time you
12:32:13 were here.
12:32:13 >> It's still David Mechanik, 301 South boulevard.
12:32:18 Thank you all.
12:32:19 I know Council is running late today.
12:32:20 And we'll try and move it along.
12:32:22 I'm here on behalf of the applicant Bernard Jordan, who
12:32:26 is a small businessman who would like to expand his
12:32:30 I would like to say just at the outset, some of these
12:32:33 concerns are crowds that are congregating outside the
12:32:36 bar, not necessarily our patrons of the bar.
12:32:39 These are things that are not necessarily within
12:32:42 Mr. Jordan's control.
12:32:43 But before we get into the specifics, I know there are
12:32:47 a number of folks here who are here to speak on behalf
12:32:51 of the petition.
12:32:52 And some folks may not want to speak, but I'd like to
12:32:56 ask them to raise their hands, those who are in support
12:32:59 of Mr. Jordan's petition.
12:33:00 Thank you all.
12:33:04 We have met several times with the TPD and Detective
12:33:13 And they have requested a condition where we would
12:33:17 supply, pay for off duty police officers.
12:33:21 I'd like to read that condition.
12:33:25 This is a condition which we agreed would be
12:33:27 appropriate to add to any approval which Council may
12:33:31 And if you just bear with me.
12:33:33 This is by the way, this is following -- the same
12:33:39 language that was approved for a wet zoning on North
12:33:42 Franklin Street called Club Nouveau.
12:33:45 I believe is the name recently approved by City
12:33:49 So we followed the example of that particular petition.
12:33:52 An I'm stating the condition.
12:33:56 Two exterior security officers consisting of off duty
12:34:01 paren extra duty close paren, sworn law enforcement
12:34:05 officers on those days that the number of occupants
12:34:09 exceeds 250 persons.
12:34:11 On those occasions when the number of people exceeds
12:34:15 400 persons, two additional sworn law enforcement
12:34:18 officers shall be provided.
12:34:21 If the sworn law enforcement officers hired through
12:34:25 the, are hired through the City of Tampa, police
12:34:28 department extra duty officer program, the hiring of
12:34:31 the officers shall at all times be in compliance with
12:34:35 the rules and regulations pertaining to the City of
12:34:38 Tampa police department extra duty officer program.
12:34:41 And it's my understanding that TPD is okay with this
12:34:46 particular condition, and would address the concerns
12:34:49 that were raised this morning.
12:34:51 At this point, we have a brief presentation regarding
12:34:59 justification of the parking waiver.
12:35:00 I know that you are short on time.
12:35:02 Would you like us to go ahead and present that?
12:35:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I want you to address the issue
12:35:08 how you're going to address the parking area that does
12:35:11 not protrude into the neighborhood as the lieutenant
12:35:17 >> We have done a parking analysis, which was done in
12:35:20 accordance with methodology approved and directed by
12:35:25 City of Tampa transportation division.
12:35:27 And at this time, I'd like to introduce Ms. Libby
12:35:31 Rodriguez, who is an urban planner and a
12:35:33 transportation consultant, who conducted the study and
12:35:37 she can present her findings.
12:35:38 Thank you.
12:35:38 >> Hi, Libby Rodriguez, 4846 Trinidad Drive, Land
12:35:52 I was hired to conduct the parking study.
12:35:56 And to start with, the code showed that we needed 165
12:35:59 spaces in our site plan showed 56 spaces.
12:36:03 So in the beginning, that looked really daunting to me
12:36:06 because it looked like 109 space shortfall.
12:36:09 So, I was, I called down and got a methodology from the
12:36:16 And I was told to count the empty spaces in some nearby
12:36:22 lots and on-street parking on Main Street.
12:36:25 And to see what might be available out there.
12:36:28 I also counted how many people appeared to be
12:36:30 pedestrian versus how many drove, so that we would
12:36:34 know how many spaces were actually needed, because
12:36:37 there's quite a few pedestrians.
12:36:39 Okay, so first pedestrian count.
12:36:41 11 out of the 37 customers that were sampled were
12:36:45 pedestrians, which is 30%.
12:36:47 So if we apply that to the parking space shortfall, it
12:36:50 drops from 109 spaces to still a 60 space shortfall of
12:36:55 what the code requires.
12:36:56 So my next task was then to count the nearby lots and,
12:37:04 not -- to sample how many spaces were empty.
12:37:09 And I was told to go out there every 30 minutes from
12:37:13 5:00 until 9:00 on a Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and
12:37:19 Saturday night.
12:37:20 It is huge.
12:37:21 I had to drive around and around and around from
12:37:25 5:00 until 9:00 and tally these parking lots.
12:37:28 So, I counted a total of 100 spaces.
12:37:32 And at the peak period, 25 of them were full, were
12:37:37 being used, so that left 75 available for our use.
12:37:41 And as you recall, we were only short 60 spaces, so the
12:37:45 75 made up our shortfall.
12:37:47 And one more thing to point out is that, once I got out
12:37:51 there, because I was out there just, you know, for a
12:37:55 long time and driving kind of a little circuit around
12:37:58 the lots that I was assigned to look at and then Main
12:38:02 I noticed that there's also a lot of side streets that
12:38:07 people were parking on pretty much everything except
12:38:10 Howard and Armenia.
12:38:14 And there were also empty spaces.
12:38:17 Just since I did the time out there, I do traffic
12:38:20 studies mainly, but I am an urban planner.
12:38:23 I have my master's in urban planning.
12:38:25 And I ended up like really liking this area.
12:38:29 It's like, you know, kind of like a neo traditional
12:38:34 neighborhood, except not the neo part.
12:38:36 Kind of traditional neighborhood.
12:38:38 There were just like, it looked like there were just
12:38:41 people out there that knew each other.
12:38:43 On one of the side streets, somebody had set up kind of
12:38:46 an outdoor kitchen and people were just walking up and
12:38:49 It was like, you know, something like on the travel
12:38:52 channel where they would say hey, you can come over
12:38:55 here and sample some authentic local cuisine and people
12:38:59 were just -- they all seemed to know each other.
12:39:02 Seemed to be having a good time.
12:39:04 And it just seems like the kind of thing that we're
12:39:07 supposed to, you know, encourage.
12:39:10 I know there used to be more neighborhoods like that
12:39:13 This was way before I, my time and stuff, but what they
12:39:17 put the interstate through, they kind of screwed up
12:39:20 some of those old neighborhoods around like, you know,
12:39:23 in the central avenue area and that this neighborhood
12:39:27 looks like -- it's like a little commercial area that
12:39:31 looks like it's been there for a while, that there's
12:39:33 residential around.
12:39:34 There's a lot of pedestrian activity.
12:39:36 I know they're talking about a lot of people out on the
12:39:38 streets and stuff, but I mean, I didn't see that
12:39:42 personally as an urban planner as a bad thing.
12:39:45 I saw it as kind of a good thing, like somewhere where
12:39:50 I would like to live, you know?
12:39:54 So -- I think it's great this area is still intact.
12:40:00 And I also don't think that the 165 spaces that the
12:40:04 code dictates were developed for this, with this type
12:40:08 of an area in mind.
12:40:09 More for like a suburban kind of an area, but not for
12:40:13 this kind of a traditional area.
12:40:15 And for these reasons, I would hate to see this parking
12:40:18 requirement hurt Mr. Jordan's chances at further
12:40:21 investing in this area.
12:40:22 So that's the parking.
12:40:26 Thank you.
12:40:26 Do you have any questions?
12:40:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No, I don't think you answered my
12:40:31 But that's okay.
12:40:32 We have city staff here that can address some of the
12:40:37 >> Let me see if I can wrap up.
12:40:39 I know Melanie may want to offer some comments.
12:40:41 I think we're making two points.
12:40:43 One is that there is a significant opportunity and
12:40:48 Ms. Rodriguez's experience is that she's seeing a
12:40:51 significant number of pedestrians as patrons.
12:40:54 So that the required number of parking spaces would not
12:40:58 be necessary when you have a lot of walk-up business.
12:41:03 The other thing, and we just need to emphasize, the
12:41:07 crowds are occurring in the evening hours, not in the
12:41:11 day time.
12:41:12 All of the surface parking lots that Ms. Rodriguez
12:41:16 analyzed are virtually available at night.
12:41:19 Without, because there are business that is are
12:41:23 patronized during the day but not open at night.
12:41:28 All these surface lots are available for use.
12:41:30 And I would like to point out that the comprehensive
12:41:33 plan specifically contemplates that in commercial
12:41:37 centers such as this, the plans should be approved to
12:41:42 reduce the presence of parking vehicles on-site.
12:41:46 That is an urban areas, the idea is to encourage the
12:41:50 reduction of on-site parking, not more on-site parking.
12:41:54 And another provision of the comprehensive plan, which
12:41:59 by the way in terms of justifying the waiver, we are
12:42:03 asked as the applicant to speak to consistency with the
12:42:06 comprehensive plan.
12:42:07 So that's why I'm addressing this.
12:42:09 The plan specifically contemplates that off-site
12:42:14 parking should be allowed in urban settings, which this
12:42:18 place certainly is.
12:42:19 And finally, the comprehensive plan specifically
12:42:21 encourages private investment in these particular urban
12:42:27 And we believe that that's what our client is proposing
12:42:30 to do.
12:42:32 This afternoon.
12:42:32 Thank you.
12:42:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
12:42:35 Let me ask legal first, the language Mr. Mechanik read
12:42:38 off, does that satisfy the requirement as outlined by
12:42:43 the code?
12:42:46 >>REBECCA KERT: We do believe that legal requirement is
12:42:48 legally defensible.
12:42:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That would satisfy what the Tampa
12:42:52 Police Department requires?
12:42:54 Does satisfy?
12:42:59 >> Yes, sir, it does.
12:43:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So it does satisfy the requirement in
12:43:03 terms of additional officers?
12:43:05 >> Yes.
12:43:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The other issue is the parking.
12:43:11 >> Melanie Calloway, transportation.
12:43:13 I just wanted to be clear about the parking.
12:43:15 The code says parking offsite has to be Ben 300 feet
12:43:21 and parking agreement between the petitioner and the
12:43:23 owner of the property.
12:43:26 This petitioner has not accomplished that.
12:43:28 They have not been able, only the nine spaces currently
12:43:33 on administrative review as Cathy stated to you
12:43:36 So the petitioner asked me if they may conduct a
12:43:38 parking study.
12:43:39 I said yes, you have a right to do that, but I just
12:43:42 want you to know that when you do the study, it's for
12:43:45 you to justify your waiver.
12:43:48 The City of Tampa looks at the code, they do not meet
12:43:52 the 300 feet for offsite parking and don't meet their
12:43:55 parking requirement.
12:43:56 So that was the basis of the study.
12:43:58 I did not really have a methodology, she told me what
12:44:02 she was doing.
12:44:03 I said that's fine, if you want to justify your parking
12:44:05 that way.
12:44:06 That was it.
12:44:06 So I just wanted to be clear.
12:44:08 Yes, we are objecting.
12:44:09 We believe 66% is excessive.
12:44:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So even with the study, there's no
12:44:14 mitigation then of the parking requirement?
12:44:16 >> There is a law, the nine spaces I believe Cathy had
12:44:20 mentioned previously, the nine spaces in adjacent lot
12:44:23 are in review.
12:44:24 But the other spaces on other properties, I don't think
12:44:27 that there's any type of lease available at this time.
12:44:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I guess the question becomes,
12:44:33 Mr. Mechanik, does your client have an agreement with
12:44:37 those additional spaces that's required?
12:44:39 I know you said in the evening, those spaces are
12:44:43 And I'm hearing staff saying there has to be some kind
12:44:47 of great, is that right?
12:44:48 >> That's why we're asking for the waiver Mr. Chairman.
12:44:50 We do have an agreement for the nine spaces.
12:44:53 But we know that that agreement is not the basis for
12:44:59 This Council has a legal authority to grant a waiver,
12:45:03 which did it for the club on North Franklin Street
12:45:05 several weeks ago.
12:45:07 And considering the circumstances in the neighborhood,
12:45:10 the availability of parking in general, as well as
12:45:13 on-street parking, you are allowed to grant a waiver if
12:45:17 you feel that those circumstances warrant the
12:45:23 particular request.
12:45:24 What Melanie is saying we don't meet the code an we
12:45:27 understand we don't meet the code.
12:45:28 That's why we're asking this Council for the waiver
12:45:31 I would point out though, she cited that you have to
12:45:33 provide parking within 300 feet.
12:45:35 Code does require, allow you to be as much as a
12:45:39 thousand feet.
12:45:39 And all the spaces that we analyzed as being available
12:45:43 were within a thousand feet.
12:45:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
12:45:48 Let me just refresh Council also.
12:45:52 Every case is based on its own merit, not what happened
12:45:55 last week.
12:45:56 >> Sure.
12:45:56 I understand that.
12:45:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yeah, but I want to be clear.
12:46:00 I know I'm leaving.
12:46:01 But I want to remind us that every case is judged on
12:46:05 its own merit.
12:46:06 >> The only reason I made that point is because, the
12:46:10 way Melanie described it to you, it made it sound like
12:46:13 did you not have the authority to grant this request.
12:46:15 And I'm here today and I believe Ms. Kert would tell
12:46:20 you, you do have the legal authority to grant this go
12:46:23 based on the evidence being presented to you today.
12:46:26 We acknowledge that we do not meet the code.
12:46:30 And that's why we're here asking for this waiver.
12:46:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
12:46:34 >> We appreciate your consideration.
12:46:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone wish to address Council at this
12:46:40 It's a public hearing.
12:46:41 >> Would like to speak to you.
12:46:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Pardon?
12:46:46 >> I would like to speak to you, allowed to do it.
12:46:49 Against that.
12:46:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: State your name.
12:46:51 >> My name Guillermos Suarez.
12:46:53 I live 27116, Wesley Chapel Boulevard.
12:46:58 I'm the owner of property behind.
12:47:00 The service station.
12:47:02 And I got problem before and I don't expect the
12:47:08 problems again.
12:47:09 I got a lot of tourists coming by.
12:47:12 Any time I got to give the station 24 hours a day.
12:47:15 And there's a lot of people coming from the back before
12:47:20 with drugs and parking right in my station to get their
12:47:23 drugs from the back.
12:47:24 If they allow me or they want to put a police men right
12:47:29 on my station, I don't mine to do it.
12:47:32 But the other way, it's not right to do that.
12:47:35 Because a lot of tourists coming in that station day
12:47:40 and night, 24 hours a day.
12:47:41 We had the problem before.
12:47:46 And I believe going to be the same again, this time.
12:47:51 You guys decide they allowed to do that, then I have to
12:48:01 do whatever I got to do in my space.
12:48:04 Thank you.
12:48:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
12:48:06 Next speaker?
12:48:12 >> Good afternoon, Marvin Knight, 8,008 Cheney lane.
12:48:17 I'm coming to in support of Mr. Jordan.
12:48:22 I was approached several months ago about parking, for
12:48:27 him to renovate that area.
12:48:29 I have property on that, in that same block, 2119.
12:48:34 Own the building that's going to get renovated.
12:48:37 And 10,000 square feet of parking in the 2119 address
12:48:44 is a three part parcel.
12:48:47 I told him if it would help the area, if he needed it,
12:48:50 I would work out with him to make it available, or
12:48:54 anybody else in that area.
12:48:55 I think it's a commendable for him to take the lead to
12:49:00 try to fix up that property and bring things back to
12:49:04 Main Street.
12:49:05 I personally lived in that area for several years.
12:49:11 One of the first address I had in that area.
12:49:14 So if any consideration or how he can work with the
12:49:20 Council and the city to make that happen, I'll be
12:49:23 willing to do whatever I can.
12:49:26 >>THOMAS SCOTT: How far is your property from this
12:49:30 >> Well, he's 2118, 16, 14, 12.
12:49:34 I'm 2119, basically diagonal across the street from
12:49:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
12:49:39 And you have -- how much parking you have there?
12:49:43 >> It's next to a building, got a 25 by 100 building.
12:49:48 50 by 100 commercial.
12:49:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Do you know how many cars?
12:49:52 >> It goes back from Main Street to union, so that
12:49:55 would be 50 by 200.
12:49:58 I think roughly, what, 10,000 square feet.
12:50:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Okay.
12:50:04 Thank you.
12:50:05 Next speaker?
12:50:10 >> My name is Dwight Bolden.
12:50:15 I live 312 West Amelia Avenue.
12:50:18 I'm a lifetime resident of West Tampa.
12:50:22 Lived there all my life.
12:50:23 First of all, I want to say that Mr. Jordan has been
12:50:26 what you would call a community supported citizen.
12:50:32 As far as his business, since he's been in that
12:50:34 In 1989 and 1990, he sponsored an event for me for an
12:50:41 organization that I work for called action in
12:50:44 corporation, a non-profit organization doing community
12:50:47 He let us use his club to, as a fundraiser.
12:50:52 In the past, he has let us use his lot at no charge to
12:50:57 do events, such as African-American history event.
12:51:01 We did get out the vote rally there, on his property.
12:51:05 His property and his building is very supportive of the
12:51:10 West Tampa community.
12:51:12 And we need that, we need more businesses like that in
12:51:17 I think the Tampa Police Department would agree with me
12:51:20 when I say that when the, when the station bar was
12:51:26 closed down, there was little to no trouble on Main
12:51:30 Street, but the Zanzibar was open.
12:51:37 Recently the Zanzibar reopened.
12:51:42 They contribute all the problems to the Zanzibar, but
12:51:45 not contributing nothing to the station bar.
12:51:47 And it would be just as much fault as the Zanzibar.
12:51:53 More crowd, the outside crowd is more consistent to the
12:51:59 station bar than to the Zanzibar.
12:52:00 As I said, we need more businesses like Bernard's in
12:52:08 West Tampa, because we are a poverty stricken area.
12:52:11 There are approximately five bars in this area.
12:52:13 And of all five bars, Bernard has the cheapest alcohol
12:52:20 beverages in the community.
12:52:21 [ Laughter ]
12:52:23 >> And I mean when you're looking at a poverty stricken
12:52:27 area, you're going to be, a person would have to go and
12:52:33 pay 10 to $15 more for their beverage.
12:52:37 I think that's something that you're laughing at, but
12:52:41 you should be considered.
12:52:42 This is a poverty stricken area.
12:52:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, sir.
12:52:51 >> My name is Bob alley.
12:52:53 And I know Bernard Jordan for about 40 years.
12:52:56 Been friends for many, many years.
12:53:00 I used to be a private investigator and security guard
12:53:03 I used to do all the lounges in this city as far as
12:53:06 security goes.
12:53:07 Mr. Jordan and I spoke together and he's going to train
12:53:10 his personnel there to make sure that they are trained
12:53:14 correctly, not some people just being bullies and
12:53:19 everything else like that.
12:53:21 Where they handle things verbally.
12:53:23 Now, he's working in conjunction with the police
12:53:28 Mr. Jordan right now spent a lot of time and everything
12:53:31 Got a beautiful place there.
12:53:33 And I think what he will give to the community is much
12:53:37 greater than most people could give right now.
12:53:40 And he's a good person.
12:53:41 Thank you.
12:53:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
12:53:43 Next speaker?
12:53:50 My name is William Wilkins.
12:53:52 I'm one of the younger guys, so I can speak nor the
12:53:55 younger generation.
12:53:56 I've worked in almost every club in Tampa at one time.
12:53:59 I'm a local disk jockey.
12:54:02 I disk jockeyed for a whole lot of famous people, sandy
12:54:05 Freeman, all of them.
12:54:06 All of them know meet.
12:54:08 I work at Bernard's club, he's the type of person, he's
12:54:13 on the scene.
12:54:14 He's in the club.
12:54:15 He's trying to know what's going on.
12:54:18 I worked at a lot of clubs, you don't ever see the
12:54:22 You see some other person letting drugs be sold, let
12:54:26 people hang outside, security smoking marijuana, all
12:54:28 that kind of mess going on.
12:54:30 No one says about that Mr. Bernard, I go to him with
12:54:33 any complaint, he's on top of it.
12:54:35 You can see him at any time at the front door, in the
12:54:38 restroom, walking around the club trying to see what's
12:54:40 going on.
12:54:41 Trying to control what's going on outside.
12:54:43 A lot of clubs you don't see that so that's what makes
12:54:46 him a good person I think to extend his business,
12:54:49 because at least he's trying.
12:54:51 If anyone in neighborhood has a comment, you can go to
12:54:54 that club and say I want to see Bernard and you will
12:54:57 see him.
12:54:58 Might catch him early in the morning.
12:55:00 But you'll see him there.
12:55:04 He's not trying to override all the rules, I want to
12:55:07 make money.
12:55:08 He really cares about his business and I think it
12:55:11 should be granted.
12:55:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
12:55:13 Anyone else?
12:55:14 Mr. Mechanik?
12:55:16 >> Mr. Chairman, Mr. Jordan would just like to offer
12:55:19 our concluding comments.
12:55:21 Thank you.
12:55:24 >> Bernard Jordan, 7801 river bluff, Tampa.
12:55:28 I just want to say, I have been in business here for 39
12:55:32 In this town.
12:55:33 I was born in this town.
12:55:35 My mother was born in this town in Hyde Park.
12:55:38 So, I'm not a person that immigrated to this city.
12:55:42 This is my city.
12:55:43 I'm concerned with this city.
12:55:45 I have properties in different parts of the city that I
12:55:48 donate for people to use all the time.
12:55:51 But in my West Tampa area, I've taken a special liking
12:55:55 to that area and I have been working over there and I
12:55:57 work hard over there to keep things under control,
12:56:01 inside and outside as much as I possibly can.
12:56:03 And in my business, I make sure I'm hands-on.
12:56:08 And if the Council would grant me this petition, I
12:56:14 would appreciate it.
12:56:15 Most to do whatever I can do to help make Tampa a great
12:56:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.
12:56:23 Motion to close?
12:56:26 >> So moved.
12:56:27 >> Second.
12:56:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All in favor signify by saying aye.
12:56:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Ordinance repealing ordinance north.
12:56:39 3288 approving a special use permit S-2 for alcoholic
12:56:43 beverage sales, large venue and making lawful the sale
12:56:46 of beverages containing alcohol regardless of alcoholic
12:56:48 content, beer wine and liquor, consumption on premises
12:56:53 and steel con stainers for consumption off the premises
12:56:56 on that certain lot, plot or tract of land located at
12:56:59 2112, 2116, 2118, 2122, 2124age 2312 west Main Street,
12:57:07 Tampa, Florida.
12:57:08 As more particularly described as section 3 here off,
12:57:11 providing repeal of all ordinance in conflict.
12:57:16 Providing an effective date.
12:57:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Does that include all --
12:57:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Staff reports.
12:57:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: By staff as well as the legal
12:57:25 description that was read by Mr. Mechanik.
12:57:27 That meet the requirements of the police department,
12:57:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
12:57:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Is there a second?
12:57:34 >> Second.
12:57:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, I'm not going to
12:57:38 support the motion.
12:57:39 It's not about the petitioner, it's not about his long
12:57:41 time in the city.
12:57:42 It's not about good friends of mine that have spoken on
12:57:45 his behalf that were good friends of mine.
12:57:47 I don't know if they are after this.
12:57:48 But it's about an issue.
12:57:51 It's an issue that it's troubling to me that we are
12:57:54 going to enhance something much greater than what it is
12:57:58 The parking is not been addressed.
12:58:00 There's been no contract signed with anyone other than
12:58:03 nine spaces.
12:58:04 And we're going to go and do this and I can tell you I
12:58:09 just that adjective quite frequently and I can tell
12:58:14 that you service on the corner, I believe a Texaco
12:58:17 station, wooden fence in the back, as I drive sometimes
12:58:20 late at night, do I see a lot of activities that you
12:58:23 and I would not want next to our own house.
12:58:25 Therefore, I'm not going to support the motion.
12:58:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Knight said he's worked with the
12:58:33 petitioner in terms of the parking.
12:58:34 I thought I heard that.
12:58:43 >>MARY MULHERN: I can't support this either because of
12:58:48 those, I mean, that's a huge waiver.
12:58:50 I don't think we heard that, you know, even with
12:58:53 Mr. Knight, we understand there isn't -- I didn't hear
12:58:56 that there was a lease agreement and also we don't know
12:58:59 how many spaces that is.
12:59:01 But, when I look at this map, this is, you know, it's
12:59:08 surrounded by, it's off of the Main Street and Howard,
12:59:13 but it's in a residential neighborhood and I don't -- I
12:59:20 feel like we need to think about the people who live in
12:59:23 that neighborhood.
12:59:24 I don't think we have really -- we have heard from
12:59:29 I'm not really sure why.
12:59:31 I think that the waivers for parking and the
12:59:37 institutional waivers, I wish this were for something
12:59:41 other than a bar because, you know, there's already a
12:59:47 bar here.
12:59:47 They're expanding it.
12:59:50 There's already -- we are hearing there are already
12:59:52 problems in the area with the, with the fact that --
12:59:58 and then we heard from someone there's already five
13:00:00 bars right in this general vicinity.
13:00:02 So something gets in the public interest to expand it
13:00:07 right now.
13:00:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Anyone else?
13:00:12 Moved and second.
13:00:13 All in favor signify by saying aye.
13:00:17 >> Motion carried with Miranda and Mulhern voting no.
13:00:20 Second reading and adoption on April 7th, 2011.
13:00:26 At 9:30.
13:00:27 >> Mr. Chairman, may I ask, I know Council scheduled a
13:00:33 special call meeting for March 29th.
13:00:36 I was just going to respectfully request to save a new
13:00:40 City Council the extra headache of having to hear this
13:00:44 case initially if it was possible to schedule a second
13:00:47 reading for the March 29th?
13:00:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You earned your money today.
13:00:52 >> I got to try, Mr. Chairman.
13:00:55 >> So moved.
13:00:55 >> Second.
13:00:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Moved and second.
13:00:57 All in favor signify by saying aye.
13:01:01 >> Nay.
13:01:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'm voting nay on that one.
13:01:04 Because gout so many more coming after this.
13:01:07 The other one dealing with staff regulation issue.
13:01:12 This is dealing with the zoning.
13:01:13 Two different issues.
13:01:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 82.
13:01:28 >> Council, if I could did.
13:01:30 That motion pass to schedule it?
13:01:32 >> Yes.
13:01:34 >> The motion carried with second reading being
13:01:36 scheduled for March 29th at 10:00.
13:01:42 >> You have the no vote announced?
13:01:44 >>THE CLERK: With Miranda and Scott voting no.
13:01:47 I didn't hear her vote.
13:01:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Mulhern and Scott.
13:01:57 >> So would be Scott, Mulhern and Miranda voting no.
13:02:03 >> Thank you Council.
13:02:05 Catherine Coyle, land investment.
13:02:06 Case V11-113, located 3434 West Columbus Drive.
13:02:12 Special use request is located within suite 105 known
13:02:16 as the Arena Plaza.
13:02:17 Staff did find this inconsistent based on the parking
13:02:20 reduction of objection on page two from transportation.
13:02:25 I will note for the record this is an existing
13:02:27 condition, this plaza that be there for many years.
13:02:29 There are four waivers noted on page one of the staff
13:02:32 The first three for the speeched uses within a thousand
13:02:35 feet. The fourth reducing the parking from 80 spaces
13:02:38 to 52.
13:02:39 Again to meet that existing condition.
13:02:41 They are requesting a 3PS.
13:02:47 No on-site consumption.
13:02:48 The unit is total approximately 742 square feet.
13:02:52 Fairly small in size.
13:02:54 You'll note on page two, the locations that were within
13:02:58 a thousand feet.
13:02:59 And then pages three through six include the special
13:03:05 use conditions and criteria for you to consider.
13:03:09 Just to reference where this location is again, this is
13:03:11 Columbus, looking south.
13:03:13 The 7-Eleven here is at the corner of Himes and
13:03:16 This is the Arena Plaza, which lies directly to the
13:03:21 The other side of Himes is the big K that fronts on the
13:03:24 K-Mart that fronts on Dale Mabry.
13:03:27 I'm available for any questions.
13:03:30 >> Officer Miller?
13:03:34 >> We have no objection.
13:03:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
13:03:46 [speaking Spanish]
13:04:12 >> His name is Osmani Meng, 1541 Springwood, Tampa,
13:04:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Are you speaking for him?
13:04:29 >> Yes, I'm speaking for him.
13:04:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Can you tell him what he wants to do
13:04:32 without interpreting?
13:04:40 >> All he wants to do is open up his own business, sell
13:04:44 liquor, people buying and go to the house and drink in
13:04:47 their own places.
13:04:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: May I ask a couple questions?
13:05:00 [speaking Spanish]
13:05:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Question I asked, are you in any way
13:05:11 affiliated with a restaurant that's there now.
13:05:13 He said no, absolutely not.
13:05:14 So it's a separate business aside.
13:05:17 This will be to the south side of the restaurant?
13:05:25 >> It's a complete different business.
13:05:27 Nothing to do with the Mandarin restaurant.
13:05:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Any other questions, Councilmembers?
13:05:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 3PS, that's full liquor?
13:05:41 Hard alcohol?
13:05:41 What is it?
13:05:42 Just for the public's knowledge.
13:05:45 >> 3PS is beer, wine and liquor, package only.
13:05:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So that's the whole enchilada.
13:05:52 >> The whole kit and caboodle.
13:05:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Any other questions of Councilmembers?
13:05:58 Is there anyone in the public like to speak against
13:06:00 this petition?
13:06:18 >> The intersection of Himes and Columbus, those four
13:06:22 corners, Big Kmart, 7-Eleven, on the north side is the
13:06:26 spring training area.
13:06:30 >> And the Amscot is in the back.
13:06:36 >> Bank on the northwest corner.
13:06:42 >> It is a unit within a two-story shopping plaza.
13:06:47 >> Well, I can't figure out where that is.
13:06:49 From this.
13:06:51 Where is it?
13:06:53 What's surrounding it?
13:06:55 Oh, here it is.
13:06:56 Liquor store.
13:06:57 Can you point to it on the picture?
13:07:02 >> This is the panoramic view.
13:07:05 7-Eleven here.
13:07:06 It's back in the back corner where the building bends.
13:07:11 >>MARY MULHERN: As we look -- we're looking toward
13:07:14 Columbus, is that right?
13:07:15 >> We are on Columbus looking south.
13:07:17 This is slightly different angle.
13:07:22 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
13:07:23 >> This is actually more angle, you can see the face of
13:07:26 that, it's down here.
13:07:29 >>MARY MULHERN: And the liquor store is on the first
13:07:31 floor in that strip?
13:07:34 >> Yes.
13:07:35 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
13:07:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Any other questions, Councilmembers?
13:07:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The only things that concerns me a
13:07:43 lot is, 7:00 a.m. to 3:00 a.m.
13:07:47 On Mondays through Saturday.
13:07:51 And then Sunday from 11:00 a.m. to 3:00 a.m.
13:07:55 Does anybody sleep here or what?
13:07:58 Even drunks don't drink at 7:00.
13:08:08 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Oh, yeah.
13:08:09 [ Laughter ]
13:08:10 [Speaking Spanish]
13:08:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: What he's saying, that's what they
13:08:37 told him in zoning.
13:08:39 >> The hours, someone suggested to him, what he says
13:08:42 zoning, I think it was the architect that suggested
13:08:45 those hours.
13:08:45 But he's flexible with those hours.
13:08:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Maybe the architect was drunk.
13:08:51 [ Laughter ]
13:08:52 >>GWEN MILLER: It was 7:00 in the morning.
13:08:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm not opposed to it, but I'm not
13:08:56 going to vote for 3:00 in the morning, 3:00 in the
13:09:04 >> Can open later on.
13:09:05 10:00, 11.
13:09:06 You give me a time.
13:09:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let him say to us, not to me.
13:09:10 What is it you all really want?
13:09:16 >> 9:00 a.m. will be perfect.
13:09:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And you want to close at 3:00 a.m.
13:09:21 >> Yes.
13:09:24 >>GWEN MILLER: But what about on Sundays?
13:09:31 >> 11 to 3:00.
13:09:32 11:00 a.m. to 3:00 in the morning.
13:09:36 >>GWEN MILLER: It will have to be 1:00.
13:09:37 I was concerned about the 1:00 to 3:00 a.m.
13:09:40 Why so late on Sundays?
13:09:41 Why are you going to 3:00 a.m. on Sunday?
13:09:56 >> There's a lot of people coming out of nightclubs at
13:09:59 that time, they can drive my store, get some liquor and
13:10:02 take it to their own place.
13:10:08 >>GWEN MILLER: I can't go with that.
13:10:10 Mr. Stokes, you had a question?
13:10:13 >>CURTIS STOKES: Ms. Kert, what is the typical hours
13:10:15 Monday through Saturday?
13:10:17 10 or 11 a.m.?
13:10:19 >> The code allows for all alcoholic beverage
13:10:22 establishments to operate on Sunday from 11:00 a.m.
13:10:25 until 3:00 a.m.
13:10:26 >> What about Monday through Saturday?
13:10:28 >> That is 7:00 a.m. to 3:00 a.m.
13:10:31 >> But typically they are starting at 11, right?
13:10:35 >> On Sunday, it's 11.
13:10:38 >> Mondays, do they typically start at 7:00?
13:10:41 >> That's a factual question.
13:10:42 I'm not sure what they typically do.
13:10:44 >> Thank you.
13:10:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Kert, wasn't the law in effect one
13:10:48 time you can't sell alcohol until after 12:00 on
13:10:51 Has that changed?
13:10:54 I mean open.
13:10:55 >> You can open at 11:00 a.m. and you can sell until
13:10:59 3:00 a.m.
13:11:00 >>GWEN MILLER: So the law has changed.
13:11:02 At one time, when I was on Council, you couldn't open
13:11:04 on Sundays until after 12.
13:11:07 >> At one point it was 12 or 1:00.
13:11:09 And there was a change.
13:11:10 This was before I came to the city.
13:11:12 To move to it 11:00 a.m.
13:11:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Changed to 11.
13:11:16 Ms. Capin?
13:11:21 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I was just wondering, because I know
13:11:25 each is individual, but a Walgreen's comes to mind, and
13:11:39 the hours are till 3:00 a.m.
13:11:43 I'm just -- I know that that came before us, and so I
13:11:54 know it was till 3:00 a.m.
13:11:57 I don't know that this particular location, but it's
13:12:04 just something that came to my mind now.
13:12:06 I wanted to bring it up.
13:12:08 And each one is individual, I understand.
13:12:12 So I need to know what's the difference -- I need to
13:12:16 try to figure out why this location would be different
13:12:25 for that hour, for the hours to be different than what
13:12:31 we approved.
13:12:32 I need -- can someone give me a reason?
13:12:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Miranda?
13:12:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I can only speak for myself.
13:12:39 On all the Walgreen's that I voted on, unless I made a
13:12:42 mistake, if they're open past, to sell alcohol past
13:12:47 midnight, I don't vote for them.
13:12:49 And you can ask the attorney that represents the
13:12:50 majority of them, who is a very fine attorney who comes
13:12:53 I just don't vote for them.
13:12:55 So I can only express that.
13:12:56 That's my feeling.
13:12:57 That's been my own in-house rule.
13:13:01 That's how I deal.
13:13:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Councilmembers, what's your pleasure?
13:13:16 >> Madam Chair, I'm going to move we deny this request,
13:13:19 relating to the hours of opening Monday through
13:13:22 I can't support 9:00 a.m. start for liquor sales.
13:13:26 Thank you.
13:13:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Kert?
13:13:35 >>REBECCA KERT: Based upon the state statute, if you're
13:13:37 going to move for denial of a quasi-judicial permit
13:13:40 request, you do have to cite the specific code section
13:13:43 that you are basing your denial on.
13:13:44 And the facts and it would be helpful to identify the
13:13:47 facts in the record on this particular case that you
13:13:50 feel do not meet your general standards, which you will
13:13:54 find beginning on page 36 your staff report, section
13:14:02 27269 under general standards and they continue on
13:14:05 through page 4 and page 5.
13:14:09 >> May I also, Council, request that you take
13:14:12 additional comments from the public before making, and
13:14:16 closing the hearing before making any decisions, had
13:14:19 the opportunity to ask any questions you might need or
13:14:21 elicit any facts that you might need in order to make
13:14:25 your decision.
13:14:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Nobody from the public spoke.
13:14:30 >> Asked if there was anybody from the public?
13:14:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes, I did.
13:14:33 >> And did the petitioner want the opportunity for
13:14:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner, you want to rebuttal?
13:14:39 Come up and say something else?
13:14:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: [speaking Spanish]
13:14:44 >>MARY MULHERN: I think that before, we need to give
13:14:48 him his rebuttal and also see if there is any public
13:14:52 comment, but rather than denying it, I think we should
13:14:56 see if we can arrive at some hours that you would be,
13:15:01 Council would be able to accept.
13:15:02 So maybe you could talk to us about what hours.
13:15:15 >> 9:00 okay with you guys?
13:15:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Nine to what?
13:15:22 Talking about Monday through Saturday.
13:15:23 What hours are you talking about?
13:15:28 >> 9:00 to 3:00.
13:15:29 You guys had a problem with 3:00 a.m.
13:15:51 >> 9:00 a.m. Monday through Saturday, 9:00 a.m. to
13:15:55 1:00 a.m.?
13:15:56 >>GWEN MILLER: What about Sunday?
13:16:02 >> Sunday from 11 to 1:00.
13:16:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Comments from Councilmembers?
13:16:14 >>CURTIS STOKES: I think Ms. Mulhern gave him a chance
13:16:17 to change the hours Monday through Saturday from a.m.
13:16:20 to 1:00.
13:16:22 Start time 9:00 a.m. to possibly a different time.
13:16:26 Is he open to a different time perhaps, 11:00 a.m.?
13:16:29 Start time.
13:16:33 >> Monday through Saturday?
13:16:34 >> Yes.
13:16:40 >> That's kind of late.
13:16:55 >> I would probably have to go through when you have
13:16:58 liquor, you have to place everything on the rack and be
13:17:02 >> He can open, but he can't sell alcohol until
13:17:11 >> If I understood him, he said that he needs time to
13:17:14 replace what was sold the day before.
13:17:17 That's why he's talking about 9:00.
13:17:20 Is that correct?
13:17:23 >>GWEN MILLER: He can go in his building any time he
13:17:32 >> Most of the stores open at 9:00.
13:17:34 Why can't he open at 9:00?
13:17:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Shelby?
13:17:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, and you have it in front of
13:17:42 you, just want to make sure is record is clear with
13:17:45 regard to section 27-269.
13:17:47 You do look at whether the use will ensure the health,
13:17:52 public safety and general welfare is located where
13:17:55 proposed and developed and operated according to the
13:17:59 plan as submitted and also whether the use is
13:18:01 compatible, I'm skipping around, with continuous and
13:18:04 surrounding property or the use is public necessity.
13:18:07 That whether it will establish whether or not it will
13:18:10 establish a precedent or encourage more intensive use.
13:18:14 Council, also you do have the ability to control
13:18:19 potentially adverse effects generally.
13:18:22 And it appears from the record, and your discussion,
13:18:25 that is what you are attempting to do through the hours
13:18:28 of operation.
13:18:28 It is your determination, based on the evidence that
13:18:32 you have in the record, whether the hours of operations
13:18:35 as proposed will in your finding of fact be able to
13:18:43 control such potentially adverse impacts on the area,
13:18:47 the neighborhood or the city, as proposed.
13:18:49 If it does, then you make that finding.
13:18:55 If it doesn't, then the hours of operation proposed do
13:19:00 not mitigate your concerns.
13:19:04 >>REBECCA KERT: I just do want to remind City Council
13:19:06 that maybe not this Council, but a Council made a
13:19:11 legislative decision that the appropriate hours of
13:19:13 operation for alcoholic beverage establishments in
13:19:17 general to operate are from 7:00 a.m. to 3:00 a.m.,
13:19:20 except for Sunday, where it's 11:00 a.m. to 3:00 a.m.
13:19:23 in this case, City Council feels that those hours are
13:19:25 not appropriate, at this location, for this particular
13:19:29 request, it would, City Council needs to articulate
13:19:33 that into the record, if that is the feeling.
13:19:36 Let me correct that what I meant to say is you need to
13:19:47 state the reasons that this location would be
13:19:51 So the basis for your denial.
13:19:53 Thank you.
13:19:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Councilmembers?
13:19:57 What's your pleasure?
13:20:03 >>MARY MULHERN: Can I ask a question?
13:20:04 I guess this is a question for you, Kert.
13:20:07 Those hours are the hours allowed by state statute.
13:20:13 >> That sin correct.
13:20:14 State statute has a completely different standard.
13:20:17 But the state statute allows local government to set
13:20:19 their own hours and that's what the city has opted to
13:20:23 State statute closes I believe at mid night City
13:20:26 Council set their own regulations and opted out of the
13:20:29 state statute specifically.
13:20:31 >>MARY MULHERN: What is the state statute?
13:20:32 >> I don't have it in front of me in my recollection,
13:20:35 you have to close at midnight.
13:20:36 I can't affirm that that's absolutely correct.
13:20:38 But that's my belief.
13:20:40 >>MARY MULHERN: Package stores?
13:20:42 >> I would have to pull the statute to really give you
13:20:45 an accurate -- I don't have in it front of me.
13:20:48 >>MARY MULHERN: So we have allowed later hours than the
13:20:52 state statute does?
13:20:53 >> And you have for years.
13:20:56 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.
13:20:56 So, I think what we have done in a practical manner,
13:21:02 since I have been here, was negotiate hours with
13:21:09 individual people, or discuss the benefits and the
13:21:15 problems around that, so, I think -- I understand, if
13:21:24 we're going to limit the hours, we have to do that, but
13:21:28 I just think it's interesting that -- I don't know when
13:21:33 Council set those hours.
13:21:34 When did Council set those hours?
13:21:42 >>CATHERINE COYLE: All I can say, I have been here 10
13:21:43 years and those hours have been.
13:21:45 >>MARY MULHERN: That's always been what they are?
13:21:47 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Correct.
13:21:50 >>YVONNE CAPIN: That's what we have allowed, that we
13:21:53 have done it over and over an over again.
13:21:55 I know, since I have been here in July.
13:22:02 So, therefore, I'm trying to figure out how, how we can
13:22:13 limit these hours and still, you know -- wave to give
13:22:18 the reason.
13:22:19 We have to give a reason.
13:22:21 My understanding.
13:22:25 >> City Council, I believe that you all here every week
13:22:29 and see as well as I do, that you all often do place
13:22:33 conditions on these applications that limit the hours
13:22:37 of operation.
13:22:38 You are only allowed to place conditions on these
13:22:41 special use applications if those conditions directly
13:22:46 relate to certain adverse impacts of that specific
13:22:51 And what I'm asking City Council is in this case, you
13:22:55 are looking for limited hours of operation and the
13:22:58 applicant does not agree to those limited hours of
13:23:01 You need to identify what in this, what the adverse
13:23:05 impact at this location from this particular 3PS
13:23:11 request are.
13:23:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If I may, madam charity.
13:23:15 First of all, there's a requirement for waiver of
13:23:17 Am I correct?
13:23:20 There was not adequate parking if I remember the
13:23:22 beginning. Hearing.
13:23:23 >> Correct.
13:23:23 Based on current code.
13:23:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's number one.
13:23:26 Number two, when you look at 27-269, you're looking at
13:23:34 the proximity of alcohol being sold.
13:23:36 Why -- Council differs on difficult applications based
13:23:40 on the location of the application that relates to the
13:23:43 amount of time allotted that petitioner.
13:23:45 That's number two.
13:23:46 Number three, seven eleven is right around the corner,
13:23:50 directly across the corner from them, which sells 2
13:23:54 APS, beer and wine, 24 hours day, am I correct?
13:24:00 Or as much as they can.
13:24:02 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I'm not sure of the exact provision
13:24:04 of that.
13:24:05 But a 2 APS typically is 7:00 p.m. to 3:00a.m.
13:24:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So now we are going to exacerbate
13:24:16 the problem to say I want the people who have already
13:24:19 been out drinking come in and take out liquor so they
13:24:21 can take it home.
13:24:24 That doesn't make too much sense.
13:24:27 No matter where you're coming from, you're going to go
13:24:32 to one location so you can get what you need?
13:24:35 I'm not saying you don't.
13:24:37 But I don't understand the whole text of it, I really
13:24:41 So, those are the reasons that you can deny this
13:24:45 petition, I believe.
13:24:46 A is inadequate parking.
13:24:50 Parking is not there.
13:24:51 You got to waiver the parking.
13:24:54 I don't know what this Councilmember is going to do,
13:24:57 but when you put the burden on us, those are the things
13:25:01 that are put into the record, and you can certainly use
13:25:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry, sorry to interrupt.
13:25:11 But I believe with regard to your analysis, certainly
13:25:17 well directed, and I direct your attention to the staff
13:25:21 They are requesting specific waivers.
13:25:23 And Council has to make a finding whether those waivers
13:25:26 are justified, so my suggestion would be, your line of
13:25:31 analysis to elaborate on that.
13:25:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I just want to bring that down's
13:25:35 attention, that's all.
13:25:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Mulhern?
13:25:39 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Mr. Miranda.
13:25:40 They're actually asking for six waivers.
13:25:43 Distance separation from other establishments selling
13:25:47 alcoholic beverages, from residential uses,
13:25:51 institutional uses, parking, vehicle maneuvers and
13:25:56 access to local street --
13:25:59 >> If I may, I believe you're looking at the incorrect
13:26:01 This is V 11-113.
13:26:04 There are only four waivers.
13:26:07 >>MARY MULHERN: Oh, my gosh.
13:26:09 I'm sorry.
13:26:09 I didn't say that.
13:26:14 What number is this?
13:26:19 >> 82.
13:26:22 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm so sorry.
13:26:23 So there are four waivers.
13:26:24 Transportation says it's inconsistent.
13:26:38 I'm not making a motion, but whoever want to make the
13:26:42 motion or propose something, there are plenty of
13:26:48 reasons for us to make some, put some conditions on
13:27:01 >>GWEN MILLER: City Council members, what's your
13:27:04 >> Public hearing is still open.
13:27:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move to close it.
13:27:07 Everything has been said into the record.
13:27:10 Petitioner came with rebuttal.
13:27:12 Everything's been said so I move to close the hearing.
13:27:15 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and a second.
13:27:17 All in favor signify by saying aye.
13:27:20 What's the pleasure of Council?
13:27:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Looks like a tie vote.
13:27:25 Madam Chair, I'm going to move for denial based on the
13:27:31 waiver provision under 27-269.
13:27:35 The difference that were stated by Ms. Mulhern, the
13:27:40 four items certainly bring concern to the neighborhood,
13:27:42 the distance waiver, parking waivers, neighborhood
13:27:47 waivers, things of that nature.
13:27:48 And the hours bother me a lot.
13:27:52 When it was just stated arbitrarily, that's what the
13:27:55 record needs, I need from we have the time is, 7:00 to
13:27:58 3:00, eleven to 3:00, that's the most and that's what I
13:28:01 want, well, I think that was a part that not considered
13:28:05 by me, but a part that should never have been put in
13:28:09 the record by him.
13:28:10 I don't know how many people buy alcohol at 7:00 in the
13:28:14 morning after a long time of whatever they do.
13:28:16 But it's the waiver part that really bothers me.
13:28:22 On the parking, on the distance, and on the distance of
13:28:26 residential neighborhood.
13:28:29 >> Second.
13:28:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Have a motion and a second for denial.
13:28:31 All in favor of that motion say aye.
13:28:33 Opposed nay?
13:28:36 >> Caetano voting no and Scott absent.
13:28:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 83.
13:28:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That will be heard April the 7th,
13:28:46 2011 at 10:30.
13:28:47 I move for that if it hasn't been done.
13:28:54 >> 84.
13:28:58 >> Catherine Coyle, land development.
13:29:00 3323 West Kennedy Boulevard asking for 4(COP-R), beer
13:29:10 wine and liquor.
13:29:11 Sales on premises only.
13:29:15 Used as a restaurant slash bar according to the
13:29:18 The site is CG.
13:29:20 The unit contains 3,162 square feet.
13:29:24 And it does have an outdoor seating area as well for a
13:29:28 total of 4,148 square feet.
13:29:30 You'll note on page one of the staff report that there
13:29:34 are six waivers.
13:29:35 Three for the specified uses.
13:29:37 Number four is for tree ducks of off street parking.
13:29:40 Five, for vehicle maneuvering within the right-of-way
13:29:43 and six for access to a local street.
13:29:45 Number five and six are dealing with existing
13:29:47 conditions as the site is currently developed.
13:29:50 Item number 4, the waiver for reduction of off street
13:29:53 parking, the staff report notes 43 spaces, reduced to
13:29:59 I wanted to correct that for the record based on some
13:30:02 conditions that the representative has agreed to.
13:30:05 The correct reduction will be from 46 to 26.
13:30:08 You'll note on pages two through four, two three and
13:30:17 four, there are several inconsistent findings from
13:30:20 transportation and solid waste, noting several
13:30:23 conditions that are needed to be amended on the site
13:30:26 Including the fact that transportation found the
13:30:29 parking reduction excessive at a 33% reduction.
13:30:32 In speaking with the representative, as I mentioned
13:30:34 before, he has agreed to place all the necessary
13:30:39 graphical changes and notes on the site plan to meet
13:30:42 the conditions of the staff report.
13:30:43 With the exception of the one finding from
13:30:46 transportation, the parking reduction is excessive.
13:30:49 For your reference, the site about which we are
13:30:58 speaking is a vacant commercial structure on the north
13:31:06 side of Kennedy.
13:31:07 Immediately to the west is Miguel.
13:31:11 I believe it used to be Seven Seas.
13:31:16 Immediately to the east, this is looking from the
13:31:21 parking lot.
13:31:22 This parking lot belongs to the ABC Liquor that lies to
13:31:25 the east.
13:31:26 This picture is also taken from the ABC Liquor vantage
13:31:31 point looking north at the rear parking lot to the
13:31:36 And from the alleyway behind the site, looking south,
13:31:42 this is down the access way with the building here,
13:31:46 looking towards Kennedy Boulevard.
13:31:47 There was an additional objection from the Hillsborough
13:31:54 County school board, just acknowledging that they are
13:31:57 objecting based on the fact there's a reduction to
13:32:02 Mitchell elementary school, which lies to the south
13:32:04 across Kennedy on bungalow park.
13:32:06 And for your reference, just to show you on the site
13:32:14 plan the conditions that Mr. Michelini has basically
13:32:17 agreed to, which can be made between first and second
13:32:19 reading, if Council so inclined to approve it.
13:32:22 This dumpster will be rotated, oriented to the east and
13:32:26 it will become a double dumpster.
13:32:27 This space I believe will be removed.
13:32:30 Which is one additional space to be removed.
13:32:33 And then looking at this end, based on one of the
13:32:38 criteria from transportation, this handicapped space
13:32:43 will be removed as it does not meet the technical
13:32:45 standard for the corner clearance.
13:32:47 For safety purposes from the transportation technical
13:32:51 Some of this space will be removed and these two
13:32:54 standard spaces will be altered to make up the second
13:32:56 handicapped space.
13:32:58 That's the reduction of two additional spaces we noted.
13:33:02 And the academy pant load is being changed to 183,
13:33:06 which requires an additional space.
13:33:07 And I am available for any questions.
13:33:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Officer Miller?
13:33:18 >> Officer Miller, City of Tampa police department.
13:33:21 We have no objections.
13:33:22 Any time we can make a restaurant from an adult use
13:33:26 project, so thank you.
13:33:36 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Steve Michelini, I'm here on behalf
13:33:38 of A few properties requesting we be allowed to change
13:33:42 what was formerly an adult use, the seven seas to
13:33:47 If you look at the aerial photograph, you'll see we
13:33:49 have an existing building where we have parking
13:33:52 conditions, which already require the maneuvering in
13:33:55 the right-of-way.
13:33:56 And then we're going to shift those spaces to the north
13:33:59 so that we can accommodate the transportation
13:34:02 department's objection regarding technical standards.
13:34:04 We met with the solid waste department and will be
13:34:07 addressing their issue as well by reconfiguring the
13:34:12 solid waste dumpster collection area.
13:34:14 This is the picture showing that corner.
13:34:20 This is looking slightly to the northwest.
13:34:23 Again, this is formerly the adult use, seven seas.
13:34:28 And we respectfully requesting it be allowed to change
13:34:30 to a restaurant.
13:34:31 This is a request for 4(COP-R).
13:34:34 I don't think anyone's -- I've gotten no calls
13:34:38 regarding any concerns or objections.
13:34:41 I'll certainly answer any questions you might have.
13:34:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Any questions, Councilmembers?
13:34:46 Is there anyone in the public like to speak on this
13:34:49 Item 84?
13:34:50 >> Move to close.
13:34:52 >> Second.
13:34:53 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor say aye.
13:34:54 Opposed nay?
13:34:58 >> Let me state for the record we agreed to make all
13:35:00 the notes and requests between first and second
13:35:03 We also request this be heard on the 29th during your
13:35:05 special called.
13:35:08 >> Thank you very much.
13:35:13 >> Let me reopen it.
13:35:19 >>GWEN MILLER: It's on there.
13:35:20 It's on your agenda.
13:35:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Stokes?
13:35:26 >>CURTIS STOKES: Thank you very much.
13:35:27 An ordinance approving a special use permit S-2 for
13:35:30 alcoholic beverage sales, small venue and making lawful
13:35:32 the sale of beverages containing alcohol regardless of
13:35:35 alcoholic content, beer, wine and liquor, 4(COP-R) for
13:35:38 consumption on the premises only in connection with the
13:35:41 restaurant business establishment at or from that
13:35:43 certain lot, plot, tract of land located at 3023 West
13:35:47 Kennedy Boulevard, Tampa, Florida, as more particularly
13:35:50 described in section two hereof, providing for repeal
13:35:55 of all ordinances in conflict, providing an effective
13:35:55 date, with all the changes and conditions as noted by
13:36:00 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and a second.
13:36:01 All in favor of the motion say aye.
13:36:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me say this before you take the
13:36:05 I always vote no once these Rs go past midnight.
13:36:11 I don't know if you have enough votes.
13:36:13 Nothing wrong with an R.
13:36:15 But in my opinion, after go after midnight, it's a bar.
13:36:18 We change our principles and I change my vote.
13:36:22 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor say aye.
13:36:23 Opposed? Nay?
13:36:29 >> Motion was not adopted with Miranda and Mulhern
13:36:31 voting no, with Capin and Scott being absent.
13:36:35 This would carry over to --
13:36:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Is Capin here.
13:36:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Capin, if you can hear me, please
13:36:44 come back to the chambers.
13:36:46 >>MARY MULHERN: Can we ask the applicant if he'd be
13:36:48 willing to shorten the hours?
13:36:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This is a great improvement from
13:36:52 what it was and certainly.
13:36:54 But when this Council change the principles, anything
13:36:57 can open at three, I change my own principles.
13:37:00 That's what got us here.
13:37:02 >>GWEN MILLER: She's coming.
13:37:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move to revote.
13:37:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion to revote.
13:37:09 All in favor of the motion say aye.
13:37:11 Opposed nay?
13:37:12 Okay, Ms. Capin, did you hear back there?
13:37:20 >>YVONNE CAPIN: If I knew you could call me from the
13:37:22 back, I would have done that many times.
13:37:25 [ Laughter ]
13:37:25 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion to approve -- did we
13:37:28 reopen the public?
13:37:30 Did we reopen the public hearing?
13:37:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No, we just opened the revote.
13:37:35 >> You want to reopen to ask the question?
13:37:42 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I can, just so the record is clear.
13:37:45 It appears that the motion to revote in effect was your
13:37:48 motion to temporarily suspend the rules, which would
13:37:51 require this to be carried over.
13:37:52 By doing that you're now in a position to take a vote.
13:37:57 If you wish to do so.
13:37:59 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and a to approve item
13:38:03 All in favor to approve it, say aye.
13:38:05 Opposed in nay.
13:38:09 >>THE CLERK: Motion was not adopted with Capin, Miranda
13:38:12 and Mulhern voting no.
13:38:13 And --
13:38:16 >> Did you mean to vote no?
13:38:18 The motion was for approval.
13:38:23 >> Rule six eight states -- fails to receive at least
13:38:27 four vote, the motion fails.
13:38:29 If another motion in order is not made, the public
13:38:32 hearing shall automatically be reopened and continued
13:38:35 to a time certain at the next regularly scheduled
13:38:38 Council meeting.
13:38:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Do I need to reopen the public hearing?
13:38:45 >> It's done, the clerk announce it please.
13:38:52 >>THE CLERK: The item, the motion was not adopted with
13:38:56 Capin, Miranda and Mulhern voting no and Scott being
13:39:00 absent at vote.
13:39:02 Would normally carry over to your April 7th agenda.
13:39:05 >> What time?
13:39:06 >>THE CLERK: That would be up to Council.
13:39:07 If they want to set it for a specific time.
13:39:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: There's no opposition here.
13:39:12 No one in the audience has that has spoke.
13:39:15 Is there anyway we can do it next week?
13:39:19 Just because I voted for it does not mean I'm against
13:39:22 I'm against the prims of everything opening till
13:39:24 3:00 in the morning.
13:39:26 >> We do have a special session next week.
13:39:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Next week, the 24th.
13:39:33 >>GWEN MILLER: Will be on the 24th.
13:39:34 >> And time would be?
13:39:40 >> So could be under whatever time you wish, as long as
13:39:43 it's time certain, so there's notice to the public.
13:39:46 Because the public hearing is reopened.
13:39:48 >> Is that the date the mayor is coming in?
13:39:53 >> Yes.
13:39:57 >> I recommend 10:30.
13:40:02 >> When you usually set your other hearings.
13:40:05 10:30 please.
13:40:10 >> To be placed on the March 24th regular agenda at
13:40:13 10:30 for full Council action.
13:40:16 >>GWEN MILLER: All right.
13:40:17 Number 85.
13:40:19 >> Thank you, Council.
13:40:19 Good afternoon, Eric Cotton, land coordination.
13:40:30 Before you is requested review of 11-3, branch of Ybor
13:40:36 heard on December 14th.
13:40:37 The petitioner is asking for two variances to existing
13:40:41 sign that currently is nonconforming status.
13:40:44 The first request is increase the light of the sign
13:40:46 from 50 feet to a thousand -- excuse me, 50 feet to a
13:40:50 hundred feet.
13:40:51 Increase square footage for the sign, excuse me,
13:40:53 increase the height of the sign from 20 to 28 feet.
13:40:56 This is the current sign in question.
13:40:57 Right now the sign is nonconforming, which means it can
13:41:03 remain there basically forever.
13:41:05 They can switch out the faces.
13:41:07 They can do standard main naps for the sign.
13:41:11 If the sign were to come down completely, they would
13:41:14 have to meet current code, which is 20 feet in height
13:41:17 and 50 square feet total.
13:41:20 If this sign were to come down, it would have to meet
13:41:30 all the current sign codes.
13:41:33 Just so you know, give you orientation, Anderson road
13:41:37 where the count entry starts.
13:41:38 This is Tampa International.
13:41:41 The petitioner's agency presented to the variance
13:41:45 review board.
13:41:46 The board denied the case 6-0.
13:41:48 They did not find a hardship to warrant the variance to
13:41:51 the request.
13:41:52 I'm here to answer any questions if you have any.
13:41:54 Just to reiterate, if the sign as it stands right now,
13:41:58 the sign can remain there.
13:41:59 Currently has nonconforming status.
13:42:02 So, the sign as it is right now can remain there
13:42:06 forever, unless it were to come down completely.
13:42:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Question, Councilmembers?
13:42:19 >> Councilmembers, my name is Todd Pressman, P.O. Box
13:42:25 Palm Harbor, Florida.
13:42:26 Let me be very clear and direct on this request.
13:42:31 If we could go to the overhead place.
13:42:34 There's not a single square inch in height or size that
13:42:38 is proposed to change here.
13:42:39 Only change which you've seen a couple of times is this
13:42:43 center portion will in effect more or less be a sign
13:42:48 They'd like to use an electronic message element to
13:42:52 whatever standards the code allows currently.
13:42:56 The configuration will be exactly the same under this
13:42:59 Only difference, electric messaging rather than the
13:43:03 simple hand plastic messaging.
13:43:05 I do have a letter from the property owner next door
13:43:07 from, Mr. Toni Alessi junior.
13:43:11 Noting to you that they are the largest abutting
13:43:17 property owner and they're fully in support of it.
13:43:19 One of the critical elements is on the traffic
13:43:22 configuration, if you look at the site, that because of
13:43:28 the channelized roadways, the site being located here,
13:43:34 there is a long distance and visibility has been
13:43:38 difficult for the people who are traveling in the
13:43:41 eastward function.
13:43:43 They have a lot of difficulty with people seeing them
13:43:46 and understanding where the configuration is, where
13:43:48 it's oriented to the site.
13:43:50 That was most of the reason why this request is before
13:43:53 you today.
13:43:53 But also in regard to the entire vicinity, there is
13:43:59 substantial signage, much larger than what you see
13:44:03 here, that is existing, will remain and being forced to
13:44:10 meet today's standard would be a great difficulty and
13:44:14 great hardship.
13:44:14 And this is just the visibility function that I was
13:44:17 showing you on the aerial and the kind of distances
13:44:20 that have to be found or have to be negotiated at the
13:44:23 So again, this is a request that is somewhat similar to
13:44:27 what you've seen before and has been supported.
13:44:29 No change configuration, not a square inch changed from
13:44:32 what's there now.
13:44:33 We ask your consideration and your support.
13:44:35 Thank you very much.
13:44:35 I'm sorry.
13:44:41 Just one additional point.
13:44:42 It's in a very intensive zoning district.
13:44:45 There's no residential anywhere around.
13:44:47 Clear commercial.
13:44:48 Will not impose on any type of residential
13:44:51 Thank you.
13:44:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Shelby?
13:44:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, just a reminder that you
13:44:57 under your new review process are hearing this de novo.
13:45:03 So in effect, you are sitting as the same position in
13:45:07 the same shoes as the variance review board would
13:45:11 analyze this.
13:45:12 So with regard to your analysis, your analysis should
13:45:16 be the same as it would be were it before the variance
13:45:20 review board, and their criteria.
13:45:23 And that is in 17.5.
13:45:27 I don't know whether you have that in your backup
13:45:29 But that is under which you have a request here and as
13:45:35 Mr. Cotton stated, that this is a legal nonconforming
13:45:43 sign presently.
13:45:44 And the request is to make this a legal sign.
13:45:49 I just want to make sure that that's clear.
13:45:52 And I'm stating it correctly.
13:45:56 >> Correct.
13:45:56 The sign right now is a nonconforming sign.
13:45:59 Request is to make it conforming.
13:46:02 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Mulhern?
13:46:06 >>MARY MULHERN: Where is the report from the variance
13:46:08 review board meeting?
13:46:10 >> Should have been sent through the doc agenda.
13:46:13 I have a copy of it here.
13:46:15 >>MARY MULHERN: Wait.
13:46:15 Maybe I have it here.
13:46:17 >> Only correction was 50 square feet to a hundred
13:46:20 square feet, which I don't know picked it up when it
13:46:23 was changed.
13:46:28 >>MARY MULHERN: This is -- this is what was presented
13:46:34 for the variance request.
13:46:36 >> Correct.
13:46:37 >>MARY MULHERN: Where is the report on how they voted?
13:46:42 >> They voted 6-0 to deny it.
13:46:45 >>MARY MULHERN: And they're questioning the reasoning?
13:46:49 >> That is something that you no longer get because of
13:46:52 the fact this is now a de novo hearing.
13:46:56 Do you not have the issue of the transcript being
13:46:58 provided to you or the DVD being provided to you or
13:47:03 the, having to rely solely on the record below.
13:47:06 But, your decision process has to be the same, whether
13:47:10 it's a VRB or any other board, using the same criteria,
13:47:16 in this case 17.5-74, the application of the variance
13:47:19 power, which is reviewing the five different criteria
13:47:22 and finding what the basis would be for your decision.
13:47:26 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
13:47:26 Process questions then.
13:47:32 So basically, we're doing the same thing the variance
13:47:35 review board did?
13:47:36 >> Yes.
13:47:37 >>MARY MULHERN: So are we being presented exactly what
13:47:39 was presented to them?
13:47:41 Did they hear more?
13:47:42 Did they hear more testimony from you?
13:47:44 Or from Ernie?
13:47:47 >> From my perspective, I summarized what the same
13:47:52 request was, which was height, square footage.
13:47:56 Mr. Pressman I believe had a more in-depth presentation
13:47:59 at the hearing itself because there was more questions
13:48:02 coming back from the board at the time.
13:48:04 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
13:48:05 That was just my question.
13:48:07 So you pretty much told us the same thing you told
13:48:09 >> Yes.
13:48:13 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay I guess then I'll have to ask
13:48:17 Mr. Pressman some questions so that we can do the same
13:48:25 work that's already been done.
13:48:31 So, you -- your client's sign, you're asking that it be
13:48:42 legal nonconforming?
13:48:46 Right now -- it's legal nonconforming and you want it
13:48:52 to be?
13:48:54 You want a variance so that you can...
13:48:58 >> I think Eric stated pretty well.
13:49:00 It's a little confusing.
13:49:02 >>MARY MULHERN: No, it's not confusing.
13:49:04 Basically -- good, you put the picture up.
13:49:06 So the white part on the bottom, are you asking to make
13:49:11 that electronic?
13:49:13 >> That's correct.
13:49:14 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
13:49:14 But the sign code doesn't allow that, which we adopted
13:49:25 last year, right?
13:49:28 >> A change is made to the sign, then it has to
13:49:32 But the nuance, sleight of hand is, what's occurring
13:49:37 doesn't expand the nonconforming use, it doesn't make
13:49:40 it any larger.
13:49:40 What the footprint that you have is the footprint that
13:49:43 will be there.
13:49:45 >>MARY MULHERN: It's not sleight of hand.
13:49:46 It's our code that we passed.
13:49:50 >> Well, it's a sleight of hand because on the surface
13:49:53 it sound like you're asking for all these variances.
13:49:55 But the reality is, what is out there is what is out
13:49:58 And as this board has looked at this before, we're not
13:50:03 asking for anything larger than what anybody has, just
13:50:07 a change in the face.
13:50:08 So that's what I meant by sleight of hand.
13:50:12 >>MARY MULHERN: But I disagree with that
13:50:13 characterization of what our laws are.
13:50:17 That's it.
13:50:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Had Capin?
13:50:21 >>YVONNE CAPIN: The standard review, the five that I'm
13:50:24 looking at here, which is what we're supposed to be
13:50:26 doing, the alleged hardship and practical difficulties
13:50:31 are unique and singular as regards to the property of
13:50:34 the person requesting the variance and are not those
13:50:39 suffered in common with other properties similar
13:50:43 So, have you...
13:50:49 >> The critical difficulty here is the locational
13:50:52 aspects of the site and the channelized turn lanes, in
13:50:56 order to access the site.
13:50:57 So the site being located here, really have to start
13:51:02 almost as you come through the intersection function
13:51:05 here to negotiate the intersection.
13:51:06 Then you have to start to make your negotiation into
13:51:08 the left turn only.
13:51:09 This is a very large span here.
13:51:11 Difficulty is, as you approach the site, if you don't
13:51:15 have decent visibility, to get to the site, you miss
13:51:20 the turn and you're past the site.
13:51:22 That really was what generated the issue, was the
13:51:24 difficult locational aspects of the business and the
13:51:27 abutting roadway and those vehicular movements.
13:51:30 There's a second element, which I was talking,
13:51:33 Ms. Mulhern, who didn't agree with me, but I respect
13:51:36 her opinion of course, that what's proposed creates a
13:51:40 little bit of a difficulty in how the code sees it and
13:51:42 how it works on the site.
13:51:45 That it creates an entire change at the site for the
13:51:50 sign, yet all is being requested is the same
13:51:55 configuration and square footage.
13:51:58 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Which will result in failure to grant
13:52:00 the variance.
13:52:03 Extend to the inability to use the land in question for
13:52:07 any use in conformity with the provision of the
13:52:11 character and includes substantially more than mere
13:52:15 inconvenience and inability to obtain a hire financial
13:52:20 Okay, that's the second.
13:52:22 >> This has been a difficulty with the silent.
13:52:24 >> The second part.
13:52:26 >> It is no different than what's in the immediate
13:52:28 And you have communication from the largest property
13:52:31 owner in the immediate area that they're not opposed to
13:52:39 >> If the variance is allowed will not substantially
13:52:42 interfere with or injure the rights of others whose
13:52:45 property would be affected by allowance of the
13:52:48 >> Well, we haven't heard from anyone in the vicinity.
13:52:50 This has been noticed twice.
13:52:51 And what's proposed is in line with status quo with
13:52:54 what's out there.
13:52:56 >> That the variance in the -- I have to put my glass
13:53:01 That the variance in harmony with and serves the
13:53:05 general intent and purpose of this chapter and adopted
13:53:08 Tampa comprehensive plan.
13:53:09 >> The goal of the sign code is allow advertising for
13:53:13 the passing public and for the location and location
13:53:19 elements of the business and commercial property.
13:53:21 That's what this sign does.
13:53:22 We're not seeking to be larger than what's out there
13:53:27 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Okay.
13:53:28 And finally, that allowing the variance will result in
13:53:31 substantial justice being done concerning both the
13:53:35 public benefits intended to be, to be secure with
13:53:38 chapter and the individual hardships that will be
13:53:41 suffered by a failure of the board to grant a variance.
13:53:46 >> We do believe that to be the case if this change
13:53:49 hadn't occurred, they would be by fast, many times less
13:53:52 than the sign everyone else has out there.
13:53:55 Again, status quo is the par in that regard, doesn't
13:53:59 confer additional rights on anyone else, that this sign
13:54:03 would have on to anyone else.
13:54:07 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Those are the five criteria, standard
13:54:08 of review.
13:54:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Any other question, Councilmembers.
13:54:15 >> Move to close.
13:54:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to say one thing.
13:54:18 When I see the sign, the Granger sign on Hesperides,
13:54:25 catty-corner to McDonald.
13:54:27 When you hit further west, you have the Citgo station.
13:54:31 You get further west, you have the Newman oil company.
13:54:34 Head further west, the Friedman sales that sells
13:54:39 different items, been in business a long time.
13:54:42 And when you hit further west, you got the Bob's
13:54:46 When you head further west, you got the bowling alley.
13:54:50 All those signs are the same as what they're looking
13:54:53 for now.
13:54:55 >> Yes, sir.
13:54:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And if I miss a sign, I'll catch it
13:55:02 tomorrow when I go to work.
13:55:05 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Excuse me, Mr. Miranda, your last
13:55:07 statement was all those signs -- could you repeat?
13:55:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This location is evidently looking
13:55:13 for same type of sign that is there now.
13:55:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Have a motion and a close.
13:55:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Have motion and second we close.
13:55:21 All in favor of the motion say aye.
13:55:22 What's the pleasure of Council?
13:55:24 Ms. Mulhern?
13:55:30 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm going to move to deny this request
13:55:33 for a variance.
13:55:34 And I'm going to give a little recent history.
13:55:40 Mr. Miranda, you have the ancient history.
13:55:44 I have the recent history, that since I have been on
13:55:48 Council, the City Council land use and especially our
13:55:58 legal department, Julia Cole, along with T.H.A.N. and a
13:56:03 number of sign companies as well as Clear Channel
13:56:07 and -- what is it CBS?
13:56:11 Outdoors, who own all the air.
13:56:13 Have been working on the sign code, which we recently
13:56:19 And the reason that -- the reality is, these people
13:56:27 coming in front of us now asking for variances
13:56:31 actually, they're grandfathered in with their large
13:56:35 signs and the goal of the sign ordinance was not only
13:56:40 to help businesses, but it was to reduce the visual
13:56:46 clutter that we have.
13:56:47 So, it was negotiated that if you have a sign that's
13:56:55 larger than the ones we're going to allow to you build
13:56:59 now, one of the advantages you got was you could now
13:57:04 put in digital sign.
13:57:06 But if you're going to take advantage of that, you
13:57:09 cannot -- you don't get to have the same size.
13:57:13 So it's literally a tradeoff.
13:57:16 The variance review board understood all this, because
13:57:24 they hear these requests for variances, which we used
13:57:29 to only hear on appeal and then hear their, the
13:57:34 variance review board's recommendation.
13:57:37 So, I think this -- every time that we approve one of
13:57:43 these variances for a sign, we are not doing what our
13:57:48 sign code intended.
13:57:49 So, if this Council wants to go back and rewrite the
13:57:52 sign code, go ahead and do it.
13:57:54 But this was done with a lot of work, a lot of
13:57:57 cooperation between businesses, industries,
13:58:02 neighborhoods and Councils, and including Linda
13:58:07 Saul-Sena and John Dingfelder, who have been working on
13:58:10 and studying these issues for a long time.
13:58:14 So, I'm going to move to deny this.
13:58:18 I don't even know if I'll get a second.
13:58:20 But -- this was the variance that they're asking for.
13:58:26 From what the law is right now.
13:58:28 They want to increase the height to 28 feet, which they
13:58:36 wouldn't have to ask too if they weren't trying to get
13:58:39 more than the law allows.
13:58:40 But they have -- what the law allows now if they were
13:58:46 to follow it, without asking for this variance, is a 50
13:58:51 square foot sign and what they actually have right now,
13:58:57 it looks like, is that 2,000 and 1?
13:59:00 Or one thousand?
13:59:02 What is that number?
13:59:04 >> Right now, they have a 28-foot tall sign that's a
13:59:07 hundred square feet.
13:59:11 >>MARY MULHERN: That's a hundred?
13:59:12 Only a hundred square feet.
13:59:15 That's not a problem.
13:59:16 My standard of review is that -- I really don't see a
13:59:24 I mean, I don't even see looking at those signs, it's
13:59:27 like here's our sign and here is another one.
13:59:31 I can't even tell that those other ones are that much
13:59:34 But basically -- I don't see a hardship.
13:59:40 I don't see that, any hardship occurring.
13:59:49 On number four, that it's in harmony and serves the
14:00:01 general intent and purpose of the chapter.
14:00:02 And that's really my problem with it, that we pass this
14:00:08 We, after study created this code in order that as
14:00:12 signs transition, they become less intrusive.
14:00:16 And less distracting.
14:00:18 And there was -- there was hours and hours and hours of
14:00:23 testimony about the digital signs period, whether we
14:00:25 should allow them.
14:00:26 So -- and that's it.
14:00:33 >> To deny it?
14:00:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Have a motion.
14:00:36 Get a second?
14:00:43 >>GWEN MILLER: It dies for lack of a sec.
14:00:45 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Madam Chairman, I move for
14:00:48 >> Second.
14:00:49 >> May I speak?
14:00:50 >> Yes.
14:00:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me, if I have the floor from the
14:00:53 ancient one, I take that as a compliment.
14:00:57 Some people never get to be my age.
14:00:58 More than likely another person will get to be my age
14:01:03 in a couple minutes.
14:01:03 What was being referred to here was a sign code
14:01:06 ordinance on big signs.
14:01:07 The exchange of four to one, different corridor areas,
14:01:10 corridors in through the cities.
14:01:12 There was negotiations for many years, not for the last
14:01:14 year or two.
14:01:15 But for 10 years, this has come up.
14:01:18 It went to the court.
14:01:19 Court threw it back at the city and brought it back.
14:01:22 That's what the ancient one has in his memory.
14:01:25 Let me continue to say this is totally out of text
14:01:28 between what happened and what was passed and what
14:01:30 we're talking about today.
14:01:31 It is a different type of sign.
14:01:32 It was not the Clear Channels or the other sign
14:01:37 companies that were big 50, 500 square feet, digital
14:01:42 sign changes.
14:01:43 It was all worked out through a system that worked.
14:01:46 For every dill sign they put up, they had to take four
14:01:49 of them down, if I recall.
14:01:51 So my memory spans not only of today but of yesterday,
14:01:54 but what I can remember that really happened.
14:01:56 So I can name you anywhere I go, I take a visual
14:01:59 photograph of where I have been.
14:02:01 Some people have that abilities.
14:02:02 Others don't.
14:02:03 Thank you, Madam Chair.
14:02:05 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and a second on the
14:02:06 Question on the motion?
14:02:10 >> Just to clarify the motion is to grant the variance?
14:02:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Right.
14:02:15 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm not going to support it.
14:02:16 I'm sorry.
14:02:18 Mr. Miranda.
14:02:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I take that is as a compliment.
14:02:22 >>MARY MULHERN: It is a compliment.
14:02:23 I don't agree with what you just said.
14:02:26 Our whole sign code was all tied together.
14:02:28 It was.
14:02:29 We had to pass that sign code.
14:02:34 Legal suggested that we do that.
14:02:36 It was all tied together between the billboards and the
14:02:39 signs, per legal.
14:02:41 Ernie, am I right about that?
14:02:47 >> I'm sorry?
14:02:49 I mean, the sign code was put into effect by City
14:02:52 I think you're asking, as far as historically, I'm not
14:02:55 as ancient here as some.
14:02:58 >>MARY MULHERN: Actually, I really wish I hadn't said
14:03:02 that because it's not that ancient.
14:03:06 During our term here.
14:03:07 But the billboard ordinance and the sign ordinance are
14:03:14 >> They were taken up separately.
14:03:16 The billboard issue was not taken up at the time that
14:03:21 the sign committee was put together that brought forth
14:03:25 the results.
14:03:25 The litigation was still pending.
14:03:27 That was taken up at a separate time.
14:03:29 If I recall correctly.
14:03:31 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, I was on the sign, took over the
14:03:35 sign committee, being the City Council representative
14:03:38 on it.
14:03:39 So, I may have gotten something mixed up, but I know
14:03:44 that that was the purpose of it, was, and the
14:03:47 negotiations that went on, absolutely, there was
14:03:52 overlap between the whole fact of allowing the digital
14:03:58 billboards and the fact of the on-site signs.
14:04:01 So they're somewhat related.
14:04:03 But I'll take that criticism.
14:04:04 But, I just want to say one other thing, why I'm not
14:04:07 supporting this, is that the variance review board, who
14:04:10 works very hard as volunteers, voted 6 to nothing,
14:04:16 spent more time on this, and voted six to nothing not
14:04:20 to grant this.
14:04:21 So, we need to support them or we're not going to have
14:04:24 anybody who's going to be willing to do that any more.
14:04:27 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and a second on the
14:04:29 All in favor of the motion say aye.
14:04:33 >> Mulhern voting no and Scott being absent.
14:04:36 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to receive and file.
14:04:38 >> Thank you, Councilmembers.
14:04:39 >> Be received and filed.
14:04:41 >> Second.
14:04:41 >> Got a motion and a second.
14:04:44 All in favor of the motion say aye.
14:04:45 We did that, we finished.
14:04:47 >>MARY MULHERN: Because I couldn't remember this
14:04:52 I would like to ask for a staff report next week from
14:05:02 Santiago Corrada on what the status of our fees are in
14:05:07 the Parks Department for afterschool programs, summer
14:05:13 camps, senior programs, and what fees we're charging
14:05:19 now and I would like to hear what the, a report on how
14:05:25 we got to where we are, because I'm hearing that even
14:05:28 though the mayor said that she was going to roll back
14:05:32 the fees, that they are still charging the same as they
14:05:35 were over a year ago.
14:05:36 And people can't sign their kids up for.
14:05:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: [inaudible]
14:05:44 The senior center, has been other inclusions other than
14:05:50 And the seniors are not happy.
14:05:51 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and a second.
14:05:52 All in favor of the motion say aye.
14:05:55 Anything else to come before Council?
14:05:57 We stand adjourned.
This file represents an unedited version of realtime
captioning which should neither be relied upon for
complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim transcript.
The original of this file was produced in all capital
letters and any variation thereto may be a result of
third party edits and software compatibility issues.
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.