TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, June 23, 2011
9:00 a.m. session
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09:04:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Tampa City Council is called to
09:04:04 The chair yields to Mr. Harry Cohen.
09:04:06 >>HARRY COHEN: Good morning, council members.
09:04:09 It is my great pleasure this morning to welcome Father
09:04:14 Hugh Chikawe, with our good friend Julie Jenkins, from
09:04:21 Africa, and his name is taken from his mother's last
09:04:24 name because in his tribe the children are named after
09:04:26 their mother who runs the household.
09:04:28 Please join Father Chikawe of the St. Peter Claver
09:04:37 Parish school here in Tampa, and rise for the pledge of
09:04:45 >> God almighty, we stand here concerned for the
09:05:00 responsibility given to our care, the people in this
09:05:04 city, good leadership for their survival and
09:05:09 prosperity, and the council are the caretakers.
09:05:19 As we begin this meeting, we ask you to guide us, to
09:05:23 lead us, to enlighten us, so that the decisions we make
09:05:30 will be for your glory and for the benefit of your
09:05:35 Help us to be humble in accepting the responsibilities
09:05:40 in this assembly knowing that we are here to do nothing
09:05:43 but to your will to the benefit of your people.
09:05:47 We ask you to bless us, for your glory and for our own
09:05:54 development, and especially for the needs of the needy
09:05:58 in our city.
09:06:03 We make this prayer.
09:06:04 We hope that you will enlighten us and give us light
09:06:08 and guide us, enlighten us
09:06:18 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
09:06:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Roll call.
09:06:42 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Here.
09:06:44 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Here.
09:06:45 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
09:06:46 >>HARRY COHEN: Here.
09:06:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:06:52 >>FRANK REDDICK: Here.
09:06:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any changes on the adoption of the
09:06:56 minutes, sir?
09:06:58 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Not that I am aware of.
09:07:00 Motion to approve, please.
09:07:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I need a motion to adopt the minutes
09:07:03 for June 9th.
09:07:09 Made by Mr. Suarez, second by Ms. Mulhern.
09:07:12 All in favor?
09:07:14 The Ayes have it unanimously.
09:07:16 I don't believe we have any ceremonial activities
09:07:19 We will have later on when, I'm sure.
09:07:25 Clerk, do you want to go over the -- any information on
09:07:29 changes on the agenda?
09:07:33 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Yes, good morning.
09:07:36 Regarding the agenda, the agenda, we have a new
09:07:40 business item, a request from Karen Palus, parks and
09:07:44 recreation director, to add two items to the July 14,
09:07:48 2011 agenda under ceremonial activities.
09:07:53 One is a recognition of July as national parks and
09:07:58 recreation month.
09:08:00 And the second is the recognition of the visiting team
09:08:04 from the national recreation and parks association
09:08:07 commission for accreditation of parks and recreation
09:08:12 They will be here on-site to review the department July
09:08:17 11th through the 14th, 2011.
09:08:21 Under substitutions of the agenda, item 45, we have a
09:08:26 resolution, a substitute resolution to correct a
09:08:32 scrivener's error.
09:08:34 Under item 107, we have a substitute PowerPoint.
09:08:40 This is regarding a workshop on Land Development Code.
09:08:44 Under the continuance or removal of items, items 57, we
09:08:50 have resolution partially vacating the faces
09:09:03 resubdivision and the legal division is requesting a
09:09:05 continuance to August 4, 2011.
09:09:08 Under item 104, a review hearing, petition Michael
09:09:16 Daniels properties, Andrea Zellman is requesting that
09:09:20 the petition be withdrawn.
09:09:24 Item 37, we have a resolution adopting a list of
09:09:29 specific projects and request by Tanya little that the
09:09:35 list be attached to the resolution.
09:09:38 This is regarding the one-half cent local government
09:09:45 infrastructure sales tax under investment.
09:09:49 Number 2, public hearing on amended petition, this is
09:09:52 requesting a SU-2 at 1702 to 1704 North Howard Avenue.
09:10:00 The staff report has been transmitted.
09:10:03 And items 77 and 78, council member Capin is requesting
09:10:10 to highlight these items relating to parking and that
09:10:15 Jim Corbett, parking manager, be present for the
09:10:19 This also relates to item 1 on the agenda.
09:10:23 That's all I have.
09:10:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:10:26 Before we go any further, Mr. Cohen would like to have
09:10:29 the floor.
09:10:30 >>MIKE COHEN: I would like to request that item number
09:10:32 52 be continued to our July 14th meeting.
09:10:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We have a motion by Mr. Cohen to
09:10:41 number 52, seconded by Mrs. Montelione.
09:10:44 Further discussion by council members?
09:10:45 All in favor?
09:10:49 The eyes are very weak today.
09:10:53 Motion passes unanimously.
09:10:58 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, if I can, did you
09:11:03 approve the agenda as amended?
09:11:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's what we are going to do next.
09:11:08 Motion by Mr. Suarez, second by Mr. Cohen.
09:11:11 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying
09:11:13 Before I take that motion, Mrs. Montelione.
09:11:16 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I would like to ask a question for
09:11:18 our City Council attorney on item number 30.
09:11:22 The company that I represent in my personal life does
09:11:30 business with the contractor who is receiving a
09:11:33 contract or maybe receiving a contract under item 30,
09:11:38 and I would like to ask the City Council attorney if
09:11:40 there would be any --
09:11:45 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Conflict?
09:11:46 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Conflict, thank you.
09:11:48 >> Based upon the discussion that we had, that this
09:11:52 item does not inure to your special private gain or any
09:11:56 of the companies that you represent, it is my
09:11:59 professional opinion that under Florida statutes you
09:12:02 are required to vote on this item.
09:12:05 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you very much, Mr. Shelby.
09:12:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.
09:12:13 Any other clean-up items?
09:12:17 Anything else, Mr. Shelby?
09:12:19 Anyone else?
09:12:20 >> I still think we need to vote.
09:12:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes.
09:12:26 All in favor?
09:12:27 The Ayes have it unanimously.
09:12:29 I am going to try to stick to the 9:30 item on number
09:12:34 And let me say now that when you come up to speak, line
09:12:36 up for 30 minutes that we have set aside for these
09:12:39 items, on public, that I will ask one time only who you
09:12:45 represent, and if you get paid by the company, and if
09:12:49 you just want to come up and say I don't represent
09:12:52 anyone, that's fine.
09:12:53 But if you want to speak, you can speak.
09:12:55 But I will be asking all that for the public record.
09:12:58 Anything else?
09:13:02 I have got an ordinance, item 1 -- take ordinance
09:13:06 number 1.
09:13:09 Mrs. Montelione from left to right.
09:13:11 >>HARRY COHEN: I move an ordinance being presented for
09:13:21 first reading consideration, an ordinance of the city
09:13:23 of Tampa, Florida amending City of Tampa code of
09:13:26 ordinances chapter 15, parking, adding provisions to
09:13:29 allow for electronic form of payment for parking
09:13:31 meters, amending section 15-56 adding a new section
09:13:35 relating to electric vehicle charging station parking,
09:13:39 repealing all ordinances or parts of ordinances in
09:13:41 conflict therewith, providing for severability,
09:13:44 providing an effective date.
09:13:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Cohen.
09:13:47 Second by Mrs. Mulhern.
09:13:50 This is a first reading.
09:13:52 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying
09:13:54 Opposed, nay.
09:13:55 The Ayes have it unanimously.
09:13:57 >>THE CLERK: Second read being will be hemmed July
09:14:00 14th at 9:30 a.m.
09:14:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay.
09:14:03 Item number 2 on the agenda.
09:14:05 Mrs. Mulhern.
09:14:06 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance being presented
09:14:11 for first reading consideration, an ordinance granting
09:14:14 to the university of Tampa, incorporated, of Florida
09:14:17 non-profit corporation, its successors and assigns, a
09:14:21 non-exclusive franchise to use the public streets,
09:14:24 alleys, highways, waterways, bridges, easements and
09:14:27 other public places of the City of Tampa for the
09:14:29 construction, maintenance and operation of chiller
09:14:32 lines including all necessary appurtenances for the
09:14:34 delivery and return of chilled water for the university
09:14:36 of Tampa in the City of Tampa and prescribing the terms
09:14:39 and conditions under which said non-exclusive franchise
09:14:43 may be exercised, providing for severability, providing
09:14:45 an effective date.
09:14:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Before I take a vote, these
09:14:56 ordinances, does anyone in the audience care to speak
09:14:59 to any of these items, items 1 or 2?
09:15:01 I guess you are all here on 85.
09:15:04 Thank you very much.
09:15:06 I have a motion by Mrs. Mulhern, seconded by Mrs. Capin
09:15:10 on item number 2.
09:15:11 All in favor?
09:15:14 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
09:15:16 Second reading of the ordinance will be held July
09:15:19 14th at 9:30 a.m.
09:15:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Before I continue with committee
09:15:27 reports, the central part of the public request, is
09:15:31 anyone here to speak to any item not on the agenda?
09:15:34 >> Good morning.
09:15:44 Marilyn Smith.
09:15:47 413 south Melbourne, Tampa 33606.
09:15:52 I want to talk about the budget.
09:15:54 And I know that it is in crisis because you it up the
09:15:58 last time I was here.
09:16:00 Let me tell you one of the other reasons that you
09:16:02 probably don't realize but I am going to bring it up
09:16:05 We are again losing money on the golf courses.
09:16:11 We are also losing fertilizer.
09:16:13 If we go to the fact that we make the nonprofit -- and
09:16:19 golf courses are failing all over the country.
09:16:22 Another one up here in the west northwest part of
09:16:26 Hillsborough County.
09:16:28 Sun City.
09:16:29 What does that tell you?
09:16:30 People don't have leisure money anymore for these
09:16:34 So we cannot afford as a city to pay for private
09:16:39 industry and we shouldn't be.
09:16:40 But when we are losing this kind of money and everybody
09:16:43 is pretending like it's not happening, Mr. Reddick is
09:16:46 on this, he's you see it is red INK, and I brought it
09:16:52 up before, Mr. Reddick.
09:16:53 Nobody wants to do anything.
09:16:54 You make all the golf courses in the city, Rogers, baby
09:17:01 Zaharias, but sentimental goes to the back of the line
09:17:06 when we are bleeding red ink.
09:17:08 And we have manhole covers at Swann that are blowing up
09:17:13 into the air.
09:17:14 That's a problem with our wastewater.
09:17:16 We don't have money to take care of that and we don't
09:17:18 have time and money for golf courses.
09:17:24 We can have parks and open green areas and save a lot
09:17:27 of fertilizer from going into the river.
09:17:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: One thing about losing money on golf
09:17:34 Don't input fertilizer into it because that's the next
09:17:37 thing on the agenda.
09:17:38 Please stick to one item at a time.
09:17:42 Put both --
09:17:43 >> Charlie that was on before I started this.
09:17:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:17:46 >> It's part of the golf course solution.
09:17:50 That's the reason I mention it.
09:17:51 I mention it before.
09:17:54 That's all I wanted to say.
09:17:56 So we are losing money and that's the way to save a
09:17:58 great deal of money.
09:17:59 One golf alone this last month.
09:18:08 We cannot afford that.
09:18:09 It is outrageous.
09:18:11 We need to stop.
09:18:14 Parks are the way to go.
09:18:16 Thank you very much.
09:18:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Before we continue, the Mascotte
09:18:21 room is open for the overflow.
09:18:23 Anyone that wishes to go down to the Mascotte room who
09:18:25 is standing out in the halls, you are certainly
09:18:28 entitled to do that.
09:18:29 I believe there is TV service there.
09:18:33 Mrs. Capin.
09:18:49 Anyone who wants to be speak for anything not on public
09:18:52 >> I'm Ed Tillou, Sulphur Springs.
09:18:56 I came to speak on bicycle safety but isn't on the
09:18:59 But MO Collins was one of the victims of this.
09:19:05 I took it off a bulletin board.
09:19:06 Maybe a lot of you don't know him, but you, for
09:19:09 instance, saw him in the grocery store or something.
09:19:11 But in any case, he had a lot of vitality.
09:19:14 He was 75 and probably in one of moments one of Tampa
09:19:22 PD's best.
09:19:24 The fellow was 75, saw the white hair and figured, oh,
09:19:27 this is just a silly old man that didn't know what he
09:19:29 was doing.
09:19:30 Actually that fellow had a lot of vitality.
09:19:33 He was on his way to university of Tampa at 5 a.m.
09:19:37 He did play a slight role in what happened because he
09:19:40 was going the wrong way.
09:19:42 He was on the sidewalk, but he came to a crossing
09:19:47 But the main start was a turning car, and this is what
09:19:52 bicycle pedestrian safety has to rely on, getting a
09:19:54 handle on the turning curves as well as getting the
09:19:58 bicycles moving with traffic, because a person that
09:20:00 didn't really take the time to fully stop like this,
09:20:04 probably looked just down the direction of traffic was
09:20:07 And that's a major factor in bicycle accidents.
09:20:16 Not somebody comes up from behind is in people's mind
09:20:21 that they ride on the wrong side of the road.
09:20:24 Collins was a ballistics officer on a nuclear sub March
09:20:28 If he had followed up in that work none of us would
09:20:30 have been here today.
09:20:30 So the thing is, he made a mistake, but it was a very,
09:20:33 very minor mistake that contributed to that accident.
09:20:41 One of the ways life can be made safer -- and some of
09:20:45 us read this, the hard thing, Mr. Suarez, about safety,
09:20:52 safety on Hart, and I was reflecting, I was over on
09:20:57 north Lois and the driver was having a hellacious time
09:21:04 keeping the bus going straight, and I said I have often
09:21:07 spoken about this in City Council.
09:21:08 There was a string of four letter words directed at
09:21:11 So maybe next time instead of saying City Council I
09:21:14 will sigh Mr. Suarez and maybe wince, you know, like in
09:21:20 pirates of the Caribbean where the voodoo doll is
09:21:25 thrown off the cliff. Anyway, in closing, I think I
09:21:28 have a little bit.
09:21:29 Three minutes left, with respect to the fertilizer
09:21:32 ordinance, I have spoken on that already, and I hope in
09:21:34 the face of a lot of turnout that it's kept in mind
09:21:38 what's needed is to exempt slow release fertilizer from
09:21:46 As I say, should contribute something new to the
09:21:49 process, not just being reacting to what 50 other
09:21:53 municipalities have done.
09:21:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:21:55 Right on three minutes.
09:21:56 Thank you.
09:21:57 >> Looking at this agenda, I'm assuming --
09:22:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I missed the name?
09:22:04 >> Robert Pete Edwards.
09:22:05 I want to find out if item 96, I believe I can speak to
09:22:10 at this time since it's not noted as a public hearing?
09:22:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 96?
09:22:24 That is staff reports and unfinished business.
09:22:27 >> I am able to speak on it now?
09:22:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I would imagine so.
09:22:31 >> Council, I am here today, very seldom I come down to
09:22:34 City Council, but I am really concerned about this
09:22:36 continuing issues in our community about parks and
09:22:40 recs, not even during the day was there so much bias
09:22:49 towards minority neighborhoods in getting information,
09:22:51 getting equipment, getting out our facilities up to
09:22:54 I have followed this group of people since the Iorio
09:22:59 administration, and for you now Councilman members who
09:23:02 came into our neighborhood promising that you were
09:23:04 going to take a look at things and be fair to us, we
09:23:07 get a new mayor that continues the same policy, we
09:23:09 can't get information, the kids have no pools to go to,
09:23:13 they put it on financing, it's a joke.
09:23:15 And I wish the council, when you meet with this lady
09:23:18 today, we never should have confirmed her or Coronado,
09:23:27 but ask them to stop messing around with the
09:23:29 Afro-American community and even to an extent the
09:23:31 Hispanic community.
09:23:32 The way they do us with pools and recreation center.
09:23:35 I would suggest to you that you also ask them directly
09:23:39 what are their intentions in the future on the
09:23:41 Riverfront Parks.
09:23:43 I have learned that they have some intentions that
09:23:45 don't meet the criteria for continuing on-site for the
09:23:50 benefit of the public.
09:23:51 I'm saying to you, we are all taxpayers.
09:23:54 I can remember the day we could only go to two pools.
09:23:57 It's just not right.
09:23:58 And those of you who just got elected, you have an
09:24:01 obligation not to just sit because Mayor Buckhorn and
09:24:04 the same people from Iorio says we are going to do it
09:24:07 this way, and you don't challenge it.
09:24:09 You are sending a bad message.
09:24:11 And the mayor is sending a bad message that he's rubber
09:24:14 stamping bias and insensitivity.
09:24:17 Please take a look at these issues.
09:24:19 The kids don't have anyplace to go.
09:24:21 And they want to do some things right.
09:24:23 They can't find jobs.
09:24:24 And they want some peace and recreation facilities.
09:24:27 And to hide behind the same thing under the Iorio
09:24:30 administration is just flat wrong.
09:24:32 So I wish some council person would take the lead,
09:24:38 Frank Reddick, and call it what it is, it's
09:24:42 discrimination and bias and they are trying to get rid
09:24:44 of all the good pools in our neighborhood and it's not
09:24:48 Thank you.
09:24:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:24:49 >> Good morning, my name is Samuel Kinsey, 4610 ashton
09:24:56 drive, Tampa, Florida.
09:24:57 I am the first chairman of the East Tampa community
09:25:02 advisory committee.
09:25:03 I live in where the park is located.
09:25:08 And I want -- one of the reasons that East Tampa was
09:25:11 created as a community redevelopment area is its lack
09:25:19 of recreational activities.
09:25:21 So it is inconsistent to make that community a CRA,
09:25:28 recreational activity, and then turn around and close
09:25:32 one of the few polls that exist in the community.
09:25:34 Many years ago, the only pool that existed for
09:25:38 minorities in the City of Tampa was Cyrus Green.
09:25:42 It seems to me that we are going back to the day when
09:25:46 Cyrus Green was the only facility.
09:25:49 Our community is growing.
09:25:53 Just in the past couple of years, there have been two
09:25:55 brand new apartment complexes open in the community.
09:26:00 Another old apartment complex that was closed is
09:26:03 currently being revitalized.
09:26:06 Our community has had many conversations with the City
09:26:09 of Tampa about Williams park, not only the pools but
09:26:12 the park in its entirety has been let go, has been
09:26:17 neglected, and has fallen into disrepair.
09:26:20 And so through the years -- and I can document many of
09:26:24 conversations that I have had with the City of Tampa
09:26:27 and the promises that were made to us about Williams
09:26:30 park, and they have failed to deliver.
09:26:36 So I ask you to insist that the city find a way to
09:26:38 reopen the park.
09:26:40 There are many children in the community.
09:26:42 Right now the temperatures are going every day.
09:26:44 It's hot.
09:26:45 Just last week in the "The Tampa Tribune," there was an
09:26:47 article saying keep your kids and your pets out of this
09:26:51 And so we are asking you to help us to keep our
09:26:56 children cool.
09:26:57 There's no place to go.
09:26:58 Right now the people at Williams park have a program.
09:27:01 And whenever they want to take their children to a
09:27:03 pool, they have to load them up on a bus, public
09:27:06 transportation, and take those children over to Cyrus
09:27:09 So please, if you will, help us to reopen our pool.
09:27:16 Thank you very much.
09:27:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:27:18 Next, please.
09:27:19 >> My name is Diane Hart, 2912 north 26th street.
09:27:28 East Tampa business civic association.
09:27:30 I would very much like you all to consider keeping
09:27:32 Williams park as a park and opening the swimming pool.
09:27:36 Over three years ago, Betty Williams and I stood before
09:27:39 you asking for that swimming pool to be repaired.
09:27:42 At that time, I believe the price was about $90,000 and
09:27:47 there was something wrong with the drain.
09:27:49 I'm just hoping in today's market with the way the
09:27:51 economy is, maybe we could get that pool repaired at
09:27:55 far less cost.
09:27:56 But three years without a swimming pool -- and it is a
09:27:58 beautiful pool -- we definitely need to reopen that
09:28:01 swimming pool.
09:28:02 Cyrus Green is a nice pool but we have far more
09:28:05 children than Cyrus Green alone can hold.
09:28:07 So I too am asking you, please consider rehabbing that
09:28:12 swimming pool and let get it open so our children have
09:28:15 son place to go.
09:28:16 Also, I would like to take a look at what are we going
09:28:19 to do with our 14-plus age children at the swimming
09:28:23 We need some programs at the park that will accommodate
09:28:27 our children who are more than 14 years old.
09:28:29 Again I ask you, please consider rehabbing Williams
09:28:32 park pool and let's find a program for these teenagers.
09:28:37 They are going to do a lot of things this summer, and
09:28:39 we would really like them to be in a facility versus in
09:28:43 our streets.
09:28:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:28:44 Anyone else?
09:28:45 >> My name is Sam Mosley, the president of the
09:28:55 neighborhood association crime watch.
09:28:58 I live in that area of Williams park.
09:29:01 At this time we have 6% more children than at the
09:29:04 We need the park, pool open.
09:29:08 I know the budget is tight.
09:29:17 I don't know where you get the money from.
09:29:21 We ask that you do that.
09:29:23 Open the pool at Williams park.
09:29:24 Thank you very much.
09:29:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much, sir.
09:29:26 Next, please.
09:29:35 >> Good morning, Councilman, chairperson, council.
09:29:40 My name is Gloria Taylor, 4828 Iceland Drive, North
09:29:46 Hills Civic Association.
09:29:48 I'm here to piggyback off of the several point that
09:29:51 were made previously.
09:29:56 We are asking that you consider finding money in the
09:30:00 budget for these children.
09:30:03 When the pool first began operation, we had over 100
09:30:09 children that -- in the community that would
09:30:13 participate in the pool.
09:30:15 Now, the summers are hot, the parents cannot take them
09:30:25 to some of the remote pools and if I could, I would get
09:30:33 the children and take them to maybe YWCA, the park in
09:30:39 New Tampa or some of the parks with all the other
09:30:42 So being that that's not possible, I'm asking you to
09:30:45 consider to find the money that would support these
09:30:48 children, because a lot of them are from single-parent
09:30:52 homes don't have the money in order to make the summer,
09:31:00 you know, fun for them.
09:31:02 So if the pool was open, and if the facility worked
09:31:07 properly, then we wouldn't have a complaint.
09:31:10 I'm asking you to find in your hearts to help those
09:31:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:31:17 Anyone else?
09:31:20 That would be addressed in item 96, some of those
09:31:25 discussions that were addressed momentarily ago.
09:31:29 >>FRANK REDDICK: I don't know if one of the speakers
09:31:33 was going to be here on item 96.
09:31:36 I don't know if one of the --
09:31:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Oh, I don't know about the speakers.
09:31:40 >>FRANK REDDICK: But I wanted to ask a speaker a
09:31:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Certainly.
09:31:45 >>FRANK REDDICK: Mr. Kinsey, you indicated you had
09:31:56 information about the Department of Health about the
09:31:59 Williams park pool.
09:32:00 Will you share with the council the repairs that was
09:32:05 done, anything that was done to improve the condition
09:32:08 of the park at Williams park?
09:32:12 Would you share any city and county dollars committed
09:32:18 to the park?
09:32:19 >> Yes, sir.
09:32:20 The Northeast Hills Civic Association appointed me to
09:32:23 be the liaison between the City of Tampa and our
09:32:26 community about issues relating to Williams park.
09:32:30 So over the past few years, I have had many
09:32:35 conversations with them about issues.
09:32:36 For example, there's a walk path that goes through the
09:32:39 When it rains, that path is under water for several
09:32:44 days at a time.
09:32:45 We spoke to the city about fixing that.
09:32:47 There are some facilities there at Williams park where
09:32:50 it was used for programming.
09:32:52 For example, there was a weight room for children.
09:32:55 There were other restrooms, that when it rained,
09:33:00 whatever was on the outside, on the inside.
09:33:06 Could you stand in the pavilion and look up in the air.
09:33:10 There were gaping holes.
09:33:11 I'm not talking about just a simple leak.
09:33:14 Gaping holes in the facility.
09:33:15 So when it rained, the children couldn't be out there.
09:33:18 They couldn't use the weight room.
09:33:20 The water was there for several days at a time.
09:33:27 So the only repairs that the city did to that park
09:33:29 during this period of time were repairs that were done
09:33:32 by a volunteer group.
09:33:34 They came in, they fixed the roof, they did the work
09:33:39 that needed to be done.
09:33:40 The volunteer group came up and did some landscaping
09:33:42 and beautify.
09:33:44 The city didn't.
09:33:48 Back when the City of Tampa was doing the Zack Street
09:33:53 parking and they reduced the amount of money that was
09:33:56 going to be on Zack Street by $1 million that $1
09:34:01 million was given to the City of Tampa Parks and
09:34:02 Recreation Department without any strings attached or
09:34:06 how it could be spent.
09:34:08 Karen Palus has said they need to do a study of
09:34:11 Williams park and she was looking for $125,000 to do
09:34:14 the study.
09:34:15 I asked her what portion of that money will be spent at
09:34:21 Williams park?
09:34:21 She said the staff would meet, staff would make
09:34:24 decisions on how that money would be spent.
09:34:26 I asked her if I could be a part of that meeting in
09:34:29 order to represent our neighborhood and our needs, and
09:34:32 she said that would be an internal meeting.
09:34:35 None of that money was spent at Williams park.
09:34:39 No money was spent at Williams park other than what the
09:34:44 volunteer group.
09:34:46 If they spent some money it was not obvious and it was
09:34:49 not communicated back to us even after all the
09:34:52 communications that we had with them.
09:34:55 To this day, they have not told us what they were going
09:34:59 to do about that.
09:35:00 And so the left hanging.
09:35:02 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you.
09:35:07 And when Ms. Palus comes before us this afternoon, I
09:35:13 want to share with this council these documents.
09:35:21 There was communication with the city, the staff, back
09:35:30 to 2009 but we have been misled for all that time, and
09:35:34 here is the documentation to prove it.
09:35:36 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:35:37 >>> I can say to you, too, that initially when I was
09:35:40 talking to the city about the repairs that need to be
09:35:44 done, we were discussing things, there were many
09:35:48 telephone calls that we didn't document.
09:35:51 But after a period of time, I came to the conclusion I
09:35:55 wasn't getting anywhere, so I decided to start sending
09:35:58 stuff in e-mail.
09:35:59 And so over the years, I accumulated a number,
09:36:04 sometimes had to clean some of the stuff off my
09:36:06 computer, but some of stuff I kept that I thought was
09:36:09 critical for us in the event that the issue came up
09:36:13 And so I don't have all of those e-mails or phone calls
09:36:17 But what I do have documented you can see goes back
09:36:21 several years.
09:36:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you both very much.
09:36:24 Anyone else?
09:36:25 It is now past 9:30.
09:36:27 I am going to ask council, I am going to go directly to
09:36:31 items -- I need to open public hearings 85 through 95.
09:36:35 85 through 95.
09:36:36 I have a motion by Mrs. Mulhern, second by Mrs.
09:36:40 All in favor?
09:36:42 Items 85 through 95 are now open.
09:36:54 As I stated earlier, when you come up to speak, we have
09:36:58 30 minutes depending on the amount of individuals that
09:37:00 are going to speak.
09:37:00 And, please, if you hear somebody say what you said and
09:37:03 you still want to come up, that's fine, but if they
09:37:06 said the same thing you are going to say, give your
09:37:09 time to someone else.
09:37:11 Again, I am going to ask that when you come up, whoever
09:37:14 you represent, state who you represent, and if you are
09:37:18 paid by them, tell us, tell the world that you are
09:37:21 being paid.
09:37:22 If you are not, then you are not.
09:37:24 So 85 is now open.
09:37:28 Yes, ma'am.
09:37:29 This is a second reading on this ordinance.
09:37:31 >> Good morning, Mr. Chair, members of the council.
09:37:35 Jan McLean, assistant city attorney with the city
09:37:38 attorney's office.
09:37:40 I have a couple of procedural things.
09:37:43 As the chairman said we are here on second reading for
09:37:45 the proposed ordinance regulating fertilizers
09:37:50 containing nitrogen, phosphorus.
09:37:52 One of the things that we need to be do at the outset
09:37:55 is you have received from the disk that had significant
09:38:00 documents in it to be entered into the public record.
09:38:04 And the statute requires that we have all documentation
09:38:07 entered into the public record on which we have relied
09:38:12 before you take your action today.
09:38:13 So we have additional documents that we have received
09:38:15 since I distributed that disk, and I want to enter
09:38:20 into the public record so there isn't any issue with
09:38:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I need a motion by council members.
09:38:25 This is to receive and file all the documents
09:38:28 pertaining to item number 85.
09:38:30 Motion by Mrs. Capin.
09:38:31 Second by Mrs. Mulhern.
09:38:34 In discussion on the motion?
09:38:35 The Ayes have it unanimously.
09:38:36 Anything else?
09:38:37 >>> Yes, sir, thank you very much.
09:38:44 I just wanted to explain to you and to recap why we are
09:38:49 here today.
09:38:51 House bill 7215 requires that any local government who
09:38:55 wishes to regulate the sale of fertilizers must have
09:38:59 adopted an ordinance and have that as part of their
09:39:03 code of ordinances prior to July 1st of this year.
09:39:05 I know you all are well aware that through the first
09:39:08 reading and the workshop that we had.
09:39:11 Also, there's a procedure under section chapter
09:39:14 403-9337 that requires a local government that is going
09:39:19 to adopt more stringent measures in the model ordinance
09:39:23 that is adopted by the Florida department of
09:39:26 environmental protection to consider certain items
09:39:29 including scientific information that may have been
09:39:33 submitted to the local government by certain agencies.
09:39:38 So after the first reading, myself submitted to the
09:39:44 department of environmental protection the institute of
09:39:47 food, agricultural science at the University of
09:39:51 Florida, the Florida Department of Agriculture and
09:39:53 consumer services.
09:39:54 Our ordinance for their consideration input to us, we
09:39:57 have received from all of those entities responses to
09:40:04 our ordinance.
09:40:05 However, we only just received a response from FDOT's
09:40:11 warning about 45 minutes ago.
09:40:12 It is only a two-page letter but that is now part of
09:40:15 the record that I have offered to you upon which we
09:40:17 took consideration of our continued proposal for you
09:40:19 here today.
09:40:21 The staff feels that it has met the requirements of
09:40:24 section 403 .9337, and still recommends to you the
09:40:29 proposed ordinance as written unrevised from first
09:40:34 With that said, we have also met with regulated
09:40:38 industry, heard from the agencies as you have said, and
09:40:43 as you are well aware, we have under these tight time
09:40:48 constraints to take action if you so desire.
09:40:50 During the course of this, as mentioned to a number of
09:40:54 you into the regulated industries, that we would be
09:40:59 asking you to direct us to come back within 90 to 120
09:41:04 days at the most.
09:41:05 Since the ordinance as it is written right now is not
09:41:08 to be implemented until June of 2012.
09:41:12 This gives us the ability to look at any of the input
09:41:16 that we have received from these regulated industries
09:41:20 from the agencies any subsequent legislation and bring
09:41:24 back to you any recommendations for revision to your
09:41:27 ordinance prior to it being implemented.
09:41:30 This would not undermine your authority to continue to
09:41:35 restrict the sale of fertilizers with nitrogen and
09:41:39 phosphorus if that's what you so desire.
09:41:40 So my recommendation and request to you would be a
09:41:45 motion that you ask staff to return within 90 to 100
09:41:49 days with any recommendations for revisions there to.
09:41:53 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want to be clear.
09:41:56 I'm sure this is okay since you are recommending it to
09:41:58 But if we do -- we could actually make changes to the
09:42:04 ordinance after adopting it today, and still be within
09:42:10 the our deadline for passing it?
09:42:15 >> Jan McLean: Absolutely.
09:42:17 As Mr. Shelby indicated, that's my opinion to you
09:42:20 The legislation says that you have to have adopted an
09:42:25 ordinance and have it on your books by July 1st,
09:42:28 and that you may enforce that within your jurisdiction.
09:42:30 But does not hamstring you from coming back
09:42:33 subsequently and making revisions to your adopt
09:42:37 So, yes, you are well within your authority to do so.
09:42:39 >>MARY MULHERN: Thanks.
09:42:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay, any other questions by council
09:42:46 Item 85 is open.
09:42:49 Anyone in the public care to speak on item 85, for or
09:42:52 >> So we are not in the order that we signed in?
09:43:00 Okay, okay.
09:43:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If I do that, I would be here for
09:43:03 two weeks.
09:43:07 Not that I mind being here for two weeks.
09:43:09 >> Good morning.
09:43:11 My name is Cris Costello.
09:43:14 I spoke to you on June 2nd.
09:43:16 I have given you a packet of things.
09:43:20 The first is -- oh, and let me say I'm a regional
09:43:23 representative for the Sierra Club, and I live in
09:43:26 And today I am going to be talking about the regional
09:43:30 landscape, so to speak, of urban fertilizer management.
09:43:34 The last time I was here, I gave you a list of all of
09:43:43 the municipalities and counties in the state that have
09:43:47 strong fertilizer ordinances.
09:43:49 And when I say strong, I mean they have the backbone of
09:43:52 all of those strong ordinances.
09:43:56 I don't think this is going to work, is it?
09:43:59 Today, I have given you a map of those represented.
09:44:02 You will be able to see that the pink dot represents
09:44:06 ordinances that were passed before the FDEP model.
09:44:09 The red dots are those ordinances that were adopted
09:44:12 after the FDEP model.
09:44:14 I think what is especially noteworthy is that in some
09:44:20 communities, it was the county that started the
09:44:23 process, and the cities followed, but in the majority
09:44:27 of these counties it was a leader city.
09:44:29 It was a City Council or City Commission that led the
09:44:34 Charlotte County -- excuse me.
09:44:38 Manatee County, Longboat Key passed their ordinance
09:44:41 three years before Manatee did.
09:44:44 Lee County, Sanibel, passed theirs two years before Lee
09:44:49 County did.
09:44:53 Collier County, Naples passed their ordinance in 2008.
09:44:57 Collier County is just now about to adopt it.
09:45:00 So you here in the Tampa City Council are about to be
09:45:06 in a great group of leadership, or great group of
09:45:12 leaders in cities all along the Gulf coast.
09:45:16 Tampa is the largest city to date and will be the last
09:45:21 city between Tampa and Naples to tackle this issue.
09:45:25 The second thing I have given you is a list of
09:45:29 coalition partners in the Tampa Bay strong ordinance
09:45:34 You will note that I separated out the coalition
09:45:37 members starting with the City of Tampa partners.
09:45:41 City of Tampa partners, I'm not going to go over the
09:45:45 list, but you will see that includes many homeowners
09:45:51 Including the Heights of Tampa, south Seminole, east
09:45:54 Ybor, Sulphur Springs, Temple Crest, Monica gardens,
09:45:57 southeast Seminole Heights, et cetera.
09:46:00 If you go on through the list, there are then a total
09:46:06 of, I believe, 90 coalition partners in the Tampa Bay
09:46:10 area, and that's not just in Hillsborough but Pinellas
09:46:14 and Manatee.
09:46:15 The bottom line here is that there is overwhelming
09:46:18 support in the community here in Tampa, and all over
09:46:23 the Gulf coast region and certainly here in Tampa Bay
09:46:27 and we look forward to working with you once this
09:46:29 ordinance is passed in order to make it work the best
09:46:33 way it can.
09:46:35 One last thing I have to do, there's an overflow room
09:46:39 with at least 14 people sitting and I am going to do a
09:46:45 shoutout and let now that they are there.
09:46:47 (Bell sounds).
09:46:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:46:49 Anyone else interested in speaking to this please line
09:46:52 We only have 30 minutes set aside.
09:46:55 So I can mange some changes down to 2 minutes instead
09:46:58 of 3 minutes and I'm asking council to let me make it 2
09:47:03 minutes instead of 3 minutes because I have an
09:47:05 overwhelming amount of individuals and I would like to
09:47:07 have them all on the record.
09:47:08 Motion by Mr. Reddick, second by Mrs. Mulhern to make
09:47:12 it 2 minutes which you actually get a little longer
09:47:15 than two minutes.
09:47:15 All in favor?
09:47:17 The Ayes have it unanimous.
09:47:18 Clerk, will you please set the time to two minutes?
09:47:22 >> My name is Gus Muench, Ruskin, Florida.
09:47:25 I was born here in Tampa in 1936.
09:47:28 I grew up on the river.
09:47:30 I fished the river.
09:47:33 Back in Tampa when they blew up the dam.
09:47:38 I was like Huckleberry Finn on the river.
09:47:42 I started the company back in 1989.
09:47:44 I came up with a product called sea wall reefs.
09:47:47 I put reefs in.
09:47:49 The Tampa Port Authority, and the Tampa estuaries
09:47:54 Putting oyster reefs around all different parts of Boca
09:47:58 saying a bay and Tampa Bay.
09:47:59 What I found out was the worst polluted area was the
09:48:02 mouth of the Hillsborough River.
09:48:03 I came out of the river -- out of the bay, I had all
09:48:07 this crud all over my body.
09:48:09 It came from the stormwater that came out of the river.
09:48:11 Now, the oysters there on Davis island and that area
09:48:15 are not producing offspring, okay.
09:48:17 You see a few but not many.
09:48:20 I transplanted oysters from reefs I put at Davis
09:48:25 I came back in here because the customer wanted more
09:48:29 The oysters were growing both ways.
09:48:32 These were clean oysters.
09:48:33 The question in my mind is how long before those
09:48:37 oysters become blue from the stormwater out of the
09:48:40 Hillsborough River.
09:48:41 I sit on the advisory board for the state and also sit
09:48:43 on agency on bay management representing commission
09:48:48 I am here not as a biologist but as a self-sought
09:48:53 individual and I ask myself, we need to do something
09:48:55 about this, in the Tampa Bay or the river, or Tampa.
09:49:04 You have to fix a lot of little things.
09:49:05 So therefore you have the fertilizer issue is a very
09:49:08 important issue and we need to take it very seriously.
09:49:11 The river is not going to clean itself out.
09:49:13 We don't have the flow coming down the river we used to
09:49:16 And I think you need to seriously consider.
09:49:19 If you want people to come here, enjoy Tampa Bay, enjoy
09:49:23 the City of Tampa, you are going to have to act like we
09:49:26 And that's waits all about is acting like we care.
09:49:29 Thank you very much.
09:49:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Next, please.
09:49:31 >> My name is Colis Springer with Springer
09:49:43 Environmental Services, and I'm one of the many
09:49:45 landscaper profession always here to voice how I feel
09:49:49 about the fertilizer ordinance.
09:49:52 I am not against the fertilizer ordinance but strongly
09:49:54 in support of it.
09:49:55 I want to express I am not alone as a landscape
09:49:57 professional that feels this way.
09:49:59 There is a group of us that feels the resources are
09:50:02 precious and the irresponsible landscaping is very
09:50:04 harmful to our resources and negatively affects the
09:50:07 character and chairman of our community.
09:50:09 It is not right that some of the landscape industry are
09:50:12 trying so hard to protect the profits of a few and the
09:50:15 rest of us have to suffer from the degradation of our
09:50:18 This ordinance is a good step in cleaning up our
09:50:21 waters, preserving the natural character of our
09:50:23 community, and I as a landscape professional strongly
09:50:26 believe that this will send a message to the landscape
09:50:30 industry that it is time to make some changes that we
09:50:32 will all benefit from.
09:50:34 Let's make our community better and our green industry
09:50:42 Please pass this, that has proven to be beneficial to
09:50:46 so many other communities.
09:50:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:50:49 Next, please, from the right.
09:50:50 We are going to go right-left, right-left.
09:50:54 Let's go, let's go.
09:50:57 I think I only have one right.
09:50:58 >> Good morning.
09:51:01 Todd Josko, 2900 west Azeele.
09:51:03 I represent true green.
09:51:06 I just want to echo the recommendations and comments of
09:51:09 Clearly, there's a deadline of July 1st where you
09:51:14 feel you want to implement an ordinance and keep some
09:51:17 options on the table.
09:51:18 I would just echo the recommendation of staff that if
09:51:21 you do decide to pass an ordinance today that you put a
09:51:25 time-specific date whether that's 90 days, 120 days, a
09:51:30 range of 90 to 120 days, that you will come back and
09:51:33 revisit this, to take into account some of the
09:51:36 literature you just received five minutes ago, some of
09:51:39 the economic impacts, science, unintended consequences,
09:51:44 the so that you craft an ordinance that's right for
09:51:47 Tampa and there's not a rush to just get something on
09:51:49 the books.
09:51:50 So I ask that be part of the recommendation going
09:51:52 forward that there's a time for revisitation date and
09:51:55 we appreciate the opportunity to work with you during
09:51:57 those time periods.
09:51:58 Thank you very much.
09:51:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:52:01 Next, please.
09:52:01 >> Good morning.
09:52:09 Phil Compton.
09:52:10 I am a representative for Sierra Club, Florida, and a
09:52:15 20-year resident of Tampa along the Hillsborough River.
09:52:19 Five years ago, before I worked with Sierra Club, I was
09:52:23 on Mayor Iorio's environmental advisory committee, and
09:52:27 Mayor Pam Iorio was actually the first person who ever
09:52:30 brought forward to my attention the concept of the
09:52:33 fertilizer ordinance.
09:52:35 At that time Sarasota County was talking about passing
09:52:37 an ordinance down there.
09:52:39 Their ordinance was passed four years ago, and since
09:52:41 then, Chris told you a few minutes ago 43 other
09:52:45 communities along the Florida Gulf coast have done
09:52:48 We have been talking about this for a long time here in
09:52:50 Mayor Iorio really did want to see that done here in
09:52:54 We have a large coastline that is impacted by the
09:52:58 nitrogen that's flowing into the river.
09:53:01 And the bay.
09:53:02 You know, it's really wonderful, wasn't it last night?
09:53:05 Did you get any rain at your house?
09:53:07 I sure did.
09:53:08 And it's really wonderful that the rainy season has
09:53:10 started now.
09:53:12 You don't have to be a scientist to know that it rains
09:53:15 in June, July, August, cement here in Florida.
09:53:18 You don't have to be a scientist to know that what you
09:53:21 put on your lawn when rains like did it last night, and
09:53:24 it does throughout those months, will wash off into the
09:53:27 But from Pinellas County we know that 79% of that
09:53:30 nitrogen does get there.
09:53:31 The Hillsborough River is the heart of Tampa, but it is
09:53:35 chronically ill from the pollution and toxic algae
09:53:39 outbreak that also threatens Sulphur Springs.
09:53:43 Pinellas County has done its part.
09:53:44 That ordinance is in effect and is educating people to
09:53:46 do their part right now.
09:53:48 The residents of the City of Tampa and Hillsborough
09:53:50 County that have signed this petition almost 200 strong
09:53:54 say that we support the strong fertilizer management
09:53:57 ordinance that you initially approved on June 2nd
09:53:59 because it's going to help us all do our part to
09:54:01 prevent fertilizer pollution from getting into our
09:54:04 precious waterway.
09:54:05 This is not a situation where we can continue to throw
09:54:07 tax dollars at this problem.
09:54:08 $56 million, $3500 per pound of nitrogen.
09:54:13 I'm not sure that you have those resources in reserve
09:54:17 to apply to this problem.
09:54:18 But this is a problem where we all do our part,
09:54:23 educated by using just a tiny bit of public expenditure
09:54:26 to do our part and protect our shores from these
09:54:28 horrible algae outbreaks.
09:54:29 We urge you, the people of Tampa, the people who care
09:54:32 about and love our Hillsborough River and Tampa Bay,
09:54:35 urge you to go forward and adopt this ordinance and put
09:54:38 this into effect today.
09:54:39 Thank you very much.
09:54:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:54:41 Next, please.
09:54:42 >> Good morning.
09:54:44 William Womack, maple lane, Tampa, Florida.
09:54:50 I'm the president of Tampa Bay landscaping, one of
09:54:52 eight in Hillsborough County that the state certain
09:54:56 physician a landscaper out of 5,000 landscape entities
09:54:59 in Hillsborough County.
09:55:00 My fiancée is another.
09:55:01 She's an arborist and we are certified pest control
09:55:05 We received a number of awards for our landscape that
09:55:08 we have installed, and I am paid from Tampa Bay
09:55:13 landscaping, Mr. Miranda.
09:55:15 But I am also the president of the Tampa chapter of the
09:55:18 Florida nursery growers and landscapers association.
09:55:21 And we are opposed to it as an industry.
09:55:25 But as an individual I'm opposed to it but for totally
09:55:27 different reasons.
09:55:29 I can't wrap my brain, and I have never been accused of
09:55:32 being the smartest person in any room, how a ban of
09:55:35 sale, even though there's a use element, how a ban of
09:55:38 sale is going to stop the behaviors of the homeowners.
09:55:42 Our industry, we work very hard, the chemicals we use
09:55:47 are very expensive, there's in a spilling, no misuse of
09:55:51 It's the homeowner.
09:55:52 And the home owner is not going to change their
09:55:54 behavior based on where the purchasing of the chemical.
09:55:58 If you live in north Tampa and the annexed part of the
09:56:01 city, you can easily go to 54 into Pasco County, in
09:56:06 some cases it's shorter to go to County Line Road than
09:56:09 it is to go to I-75 and purchase your chemicals at the
09:56:14 box stores.
09:56:14 In the city, you can just as easily go north on Dale
09:56:18 Mabry and buy what's in the county, Home Depot or
09:56:25 Lowes, 275 from Dale Mabry.
09:56:28 My point is, it's an inconvenience for the homeowner
09:56:35 because -- I make a lot of money because of their
09:56:39 The key in critical things that we need to do is
09:56:42 educate that homeowner, and we have solutions to help
09:56:47 We support you.
09:56:47 If this is the rule that you want, we are here to
09:56:51 support you but we do beg that you allow us to come
09:56:54 back and give you some real recommendations from
09:56:56 industry professionals, pHed from the University of
09:57:02 Florida an how to use these products.
09:57:06 I hope you don't take offense to this, but there's
09:57:10 really no way of enforcing this and changing the
09:57:13 behavior of the public.
09:57:14 Thank you for your time.
09:57:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much, sir.
09:57:18 Next, please.
09:57:18 >> My name is Nanette O'Hara.
09:57:22 I yes, I am on the clock.
09:57:25 Tampa Bay estuary program.
09:57:26 I am a proud 17 year resident of Tampa here today to
09:57:30 thank you for considering this important water quality
09:57:32 We estimate if you enact this ordinance you will reduce
09:57:35 nitrogen loadings from Tampa to the bay by nearly eight
09:57:39 That's significant because we are already at the
09:57:41 ceiling for allowable nitrogen loading to Tampa Bay,
09:57:44 and in fact you are going to have to reduce nitrogen
09:57:48 loading to the Hillsborough River to meet new water
09:57:50 quality standards for fresh water systems.
09:57:53 Adopting this ordinance also would provide an
09:57:55 additional layer of source water protection for the
09:57:58 Hillsborough River, our drinking wallet supply.
09:58:02 Our policy board directed us to include a sales ban on
09:58:05 nitrogen fertilizer in our model ordinance, because
09:58:08 they recognize dollars that it provided built-in
09:58:12 compliance at a much lower cost and a much higher
09:58:16 potential for success than education alone.
09:58:19 That being said, we have an extremely strong education
09:58:22 program in conjunction with this ordinance that we have
09:58:25 launched in Pinellas County this year and are looking
09:58:28 forward to bringing to the City of Tampa.
09:58:30 Our board has already committed funds for us to
09:58:33 continue and expand the campaign, and the campaign and
09:58:38 the ordinance go hand in hand.
09:58:40 The campaign message to only use fertilizers from
09:58:44 October through May is reinforced every time a
09:58:46 homeowner goes into a retail store and they only find
09:58:50 fertilizers on the shelves.
09:58:52 Likewise during the summer with the nitrogen-free
09:58:55 And the shelves in Pinellas County are not empty.
09:58:58 During the October through May time frame, there are
09:59:02 more than 85 products that meet the slow release
09:59:06 Right now from June through September, there are 35
09:59:09 products that heir certified as compliant.
09:59:11 And more are coming to our attention all the time, and
09:59:15 the majority of them are being made by Florida
09:59:19 Sunnyland fertilizer of Sanford, Florida is now the
09:59:22 dominant supplier of lawn fertilizers at big box stores
09:59:26 in Pinellas County.
09:59:29 I want to thank you again.
09:59:31 Your city has been a very strong partner with the
09:59:34 estuary program for 20 years and we appreciate your
09:59:37 careful consideration of this issue.
09:59:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:59:40 Next, please.
09:59:40 >> My name is Brant barber, and I work for true green.
09:59:46 And I am getting paid by them.
09:59:49 But I agree that we need to do something for our water
09:59:55 and I agree that you need to do something about the
09:59:57 loads on the nitrogen coming out of your storm and
10:00:00 drain waters.
10:00:02 However, Wan we ask is that you revisit this and you
10:00:07 really talk sincerely to the people such as University
10:00:11 of Florida, IFAS, department of environmental
10:00:15 protection, DACS, leaders in the industry that can help
10:00:20 get an ordinance that is not only going to be
10:00:23 beneficial to our waters, but somewhat enforceable.
10:00:31 Also, if you take the people who are trained, have the
10:00:36 best management practices under their belts, who know
10:00:40 what they are doing, have the equipment to properly
10:00:42 apply to the lawns, and you let the homeowners do it,
10:00:47 your loads will increase because if a homeowner says
10:00:51 five pounds is good, ten pounds is better, you have
10:00:54 just doubled your load.
10:00:57 So what we ask is that you go ahead 90 days, 120 days,
10:01:02 please revisit this, but talk to the leaders in the
10:01:05 industry, and the University of Florida, and read the
10:01:11 Thank you.
10:01:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Next, please.
10:01:12 >> Good morning.
10:01:16 My name is Kelli Levy with your partner government
10:01:19 Pinellas County across the bay, and I would like to
10:01:22 thank you today for considering this very important
10:01:25 honest for Tampa Bay.
10:01:27 We are also your partner in the Tampa Bay regional
10:01:29 assurance plan and the nitrogen loading that we will
10:01:32 have to deal with to comply with those regulations.
10:01:37 Given the staffing and budgetary reductions we could
10:01:40 not have enforced this ordinance that we have in
10:01:42 Pinellas County without the sales restrictions.
10:01:44 Given the almost million residents that wave in
10:01:49 Pinellas County dealing with 50 or so retailers have
10:01:51 been our means of getting the message out to the
10:01:55 The be Floridian education program as you heard
10:01:57 reinforces this.
10:02:00 So you hear in the ordinance only use 50% slow release,
10:02:05 the campaign also reinforces this.
10:02:07 You go into the store and those all you see.
10:02:10 It's a full circle education program and a full circle
10:02:12 enforcement program that has allowed to us implement
10:02:15 this ordinance with very, very few staff resources.
10:02:19 I brought with me some information from brochures and
10:02:23 things that we have done in addition to the be
10:02:24 Floridian education campaign that is helping us to get
10:02:27 the message out to our community.
10:02:29 Thank you.
10:02:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:02:31 Next, please.
10:02:32 >> I'm Mariotte Coulster, 6812 Diana Court.
10:02:56 I first came here in 1947.
10:03:00 The Hillsborough River is a breeding ground.
10:03:05 A nursery for fish that are affected by the run-off
10:03:11 water that contains nitrogen phosphorus.
10:03:19 I support this.
10:03:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:03:22 Next, please.
10:03:25 That's a speaker that I like.
10:03:26 Right to the point.
10:03:27 [ Laughter ]
10:03:29 >> Good morning.
10:03:31 My name is Dena Leavengood, a resident of South Tampa,
10:03:35 and I am so pleased to be before you for the first time
10:03:38 to see all of the new City Council members.
10:03:41 And our favorite continuing council members.
10:03:43 So welcome and thank you for service to our community.
10:03:48 I'm here also representing a regional sustainability
10:03:54 grassroots organization working to balance natural
10:03:59 systems and as former co-chair of the advisory
10:04:03 We worked for many, many years now since the 80s to
10:04:05 clean up our Tampa Bay. And we are doing a remarkable
10:04:09 job of that.
10:04:10 And we have held industry responsible for many of the
10:04:14 agriculture and other items that have contributed to
10:04:17 the nitrogen load.
10:04:18 It's now time for our citizens and our residents to
10:04:21 take some personal responsibility as well.
10:04:24 It's really important to the city for a number of
10:04:27 Number one, as you know, I have recently been working
10:04:30 mostly on health care in our community and it a public
10:04:33 health issue.
10:04:34 When our bay is not healthy and our rivers are not
10:04:37 healthy and this is our public water drinking source,
10:04:39 we have problems.
10:04:40 It will save actually a lot of money and clean-up costs
10:04:45 to clean the water for us if they are able to keep that
10:04:48 nitrogen and phosphorus out of the water to begin with.
10:04:50 So we stand to actually make money on this if we do it
10:04:55 We do need an educational campaign, and we are
10:04:58 fortunate to have the Tampa Bay estuary program here
10:05:01 with all of our supporting local communities and
10:05:04 governments working in that regard.
10:05:07 So let's leverage our resources for education.
10:05:12 Let's support also the staff's recommendation for
10:05:13 review and a revisit, because now we can make it even
10:05:17 stronger and better and more effective in the
10:05:20 appropriate way for our community.
10:05:23 And we also want to be partners with the landscape
10:05:27 industry in educating the public about this.
10:05:31 Further, as an economic development tool, if our bay is
10:05:35 not the best that it can be and we are not doing
10:05:39 anything efficiently in terms of fresh water, potable
10:05:42 water, our safety and security depend on it and our
10:05:45 quality of life for us as an existing community and any
10:05:49 other businesses we might try to recruit.
10:05:51 So I strongly urge to you support this proposed
10:05:54 And thank you very much for your leadership of in this.
10:05:56 It's very important.
10:05:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:05:59 Next, please.
10:06:00 I have about 15 minutes left.
10:06:01 >> Bev Griffiths.
10:06:03 I'm a resident of Riverview.
10:06:05 And I live on the Alafia river.
10:06:07 And my husband and I in the City of Tampa, both of us
10:06:14 support clean water.
10:06:16 We support the ban on retail sales on the shelf with
10:06:21 nitrogen and phosphorus and hope the industry will
10:06:25 follow as well.
10:06:28 Thank you very much.
10:06:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Next, please.
10:06:30 >> Charles Christmas, with Scott's Miracle-Gro company,
10:06:33 a local resident of Hillsborough County, and I have
10:06:36 been involved with the ordinances since they have been
10:06:40 brought up and submitted for approval across
10:06:43 Hillsborough, Pinellas, Sarasota, Charlotte, several
10:06:47 One of the things that we found is that the retailers
10:06:50 themselves have been very confused.
10:06:52 It's been a challenge for us.
10:06:53 It's still a challenge today in Pinellas.
10:06:56 We are getting better, but it's tough for them to
10:06:59 understand what's right and what's wrong.
10:07:01 Same thing with the residents.
10:07:03 It's an issue with the residents themselves because
10:07:05 they, too, don't understand what's right and what's
10:07:08 And the residents, talking to some of the retailers, we
10:07:13 did consumer insights, and the calls have gone up to
10:07:16 our retailers here in Hillsborough County, for
10:07:18 instance, wanting to know if they carried certain
10:07:20 products, and if they do, can they can come get them?
10:07:24 And of course the retailers, the answer to than is yes.
10:07:27 They are continuing to sell the product to residents
10:07:29 and the banned county of Pinellas.
10:07:33 But I guess the rules that we implement sometimes don't
10:07:38 fix the issue.
10:07:40 When we look at recycling, we didn't need an ordinance
10:07:43 to tell us how to recycle.
10:07:45 We taught people how to recycle and now look at where
10:07:48 it at today.
10:07:48 And it's the same thing with this.
10:07:50 If we teach people how many to do it, how to do it
10:07:53 right, it going to prevent the load-pup prior to the
10:07:56 sun summer which resident do, is going to prevent them
10:07:58 from using the wrong product which residents do, and
10:08:01 help them understand the right way to do it.
10:08:04 So I oppose the ordinance that's before the council
10:08:08 Thank you very much.
10:08:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:08:10 Next, please.
10:08:11 >> I'm Cathy Harrelson.
10:08:20 I am from Pinellas.
10:08:21 I have been here before.
10:08:22 But there's so much discussion about education and I am
10:08:24 a member of the Tampa Bay estuary education committee
10:08:27 regarding fertilizers so I wanted to show you what the
10:08:30 iconic representative of what our be Floridian campaign
10:08:35 Education has been the reason that we came together.
10:08:40 We knew that educating the public was going to be the
10:08:43 main focus here.
10:08:45 That's why we decreed this campaign.
10:08:47 And also why after two years of extensive public
10:08:50 hearings and vetting Pinellas County decided to go
10:08:56 figuring it's the best way to educate consumers.
10:08:59 So I look forward and hope that Tampa will be joining
10:09:01 us in the be Floridian campaign.
10:09:03 Thank you very much.
10:09:04 >> I thought it was the Florida lotto.
10:09:07 [ Laughter ]
10:09:08 Next, please.
10:09:10 >> Good morning.
10:09:12 My name is Ed Ross.
10:09:14 I live in Sulphur Springs.
10:09:16 And I want to say welcome to all of the new council
10:09:21 I was there and watched you get sworn in and I'm very
10:09:24 proud of you.
10:09:26 Imagine a Beechcraft with vacationers enjoying a hot
10:09:29 summer sum as children paddle in the shallows, forging
10:09:33 for shells and other treasures, dead and dying animals
10:09:37 begin to wash ashore.
10:09:38 First a few struggling fish, then smelly masses of
10:09:43 crabs, clams, mussels and fish alerted by the kids'
10:09:47 shocked cries, the anxious parents rush to the water to
10:09:50 pull their children away.
10:09:52 Meanwhile, out on the horizon, frustrated fishermen
10:09:55 head for port with boats empty, nets and holds.
10:10:03 The scene does not come from a grade B horror movie or
10:10:07 even a deep water horizon oil spill.
10:10:09 Instances dense of this type are actually occurring
10:10:11 periodically in many sea resorts in Romania and Ukraine
10:10:18 in the 1970s and 80s.
10:10:21 The black sea offers a dramatic examples of how
10:10:24 undersea ecosystems can be destroyed by nutrients,
10:10:27 night low general and phosphate compounds.
10:10:30 In other words, dead zones.
10:10:31 We have dead zones.
10:10:35 I remember in the 1960s and 70s, Tampa Bay.
10:10:39 I remember the city came forward and did something very
10:10:42 powerful to help clean up the bay, and we started
10:10:46 having fisheries coming in, and it was really very
10:10:55 Another thing that's happened since that time is
10:10:56 because of fertilizers and stuff coming out we have
10:11:02 dead zones all up and down Florida, and it's starting
10:11:05 to join with major dead zones off the Mississippi
10:11:14 A year or e-so ago I came back and saw there was a 14
10:11:18 square mile dead zone in Tampa Bay during the summer.
10:11:21 So what it is, I love the bay.
10:11:30 I love the river.
10:11:33 I had the first kayak shop in the west coast of
10:11:36 I took people from all over the world and I took them
10:11:39 and I showed them the beauties and wonders of Florida.
10:11:43 (Bell sounds).
10:11:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you much.
10:11:46 >> So pass it.
10:11:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Next, please.
10:11:49 We only have about eight minutes left.
10:11:51 >> I'm Jennifer Lux and here as a paid representative
10:11:56 of enterprises and thank you very much for hearing from
10:11:59 us today.
10:12:00 I agree with him.
10:12:01 I absolutely love the bay.
10:12:02 I love the Hillsborough River and I love everything in
10:12:04 the community.
10:12:05 And because of the importance of the bay and what it
10:12:07 does mean to the community, I would ask that you guys
10:12:09 put in a little bit more consideration of this
10:12:13 ordinance before passing it.
10:12:16 And the reason I say that is I know a lot of the
10:12:20 information that has come and has been considered has
10:12:23 been from Hillsborough County or other counties
10:12:25 entirely, other bodies of water, in fact does state
10:12:29 that the local government must consider it all relevant
10:12:32 information including the reports you guys just
10:12:34 received from the department of environmental
10:12:35 protection, ZAC and IFAS, and I am wondering if those
10:12:43 documents are going to state what they requested when
10:12:44 they were requested by Hillsborough County,
10:12:47 specifically when comes to the retail ban on those
10:12:52 documents stated retail ban effectiveness has not been
10:12:55 scientifically documented, the D.E.P. claims it's not
10:12:59 complete and IFAS opposed the county ordinance when
10:13:02 first submitted which included the retail ban because
10:13:04 they said there's a lack of science and actually
10:13:06 potential negative consequences to the water quality.
10:13:10 And so I would just once again ask you to take a longer
10:13:15 time to consider what you are doing because
10:13:17 Hillsborough County and the bay is so important.
10:13:23 The county spent oaf a year poring through these
10:13:26 documents, listening to researchers and scientists and
10:13:29 people who make their lives on the water, and this is
10:13:33 trying to get done in a very short process, as Mrs.
10:13:37 McLean mentioned earlier the guide lanes.
10:13:40 Statute by the Florida legislature, and because it's
10:13:43 being passed fast doesn't mean it's the best thing for
10:13:47 the bay.
10:13:48 So you, the council received this about 15 minutes ago.
10:13:53 I don't know if you had full time to consider that.
10:13:58 I believe steps have been skipped in haste to pass the
10:14:01 ordinance and I just ask that you take a little more
10:14:04 time because the bay and effort ware are so incredibly
10:14:08 And the last thing I wanted to mention, the woman who
10:14:12 spaghetti model about education, the flamingo, she
10:14:14 couldn't be more correct.
10:14:15 In speaking, education is really the key here, and
10:14:19 speaking to some members of the county, when they did
10:14:21 the education about --
10:14:23 (Bell sounds).
10:14:23 >> Coming down on water they actually laid people off.
10:14:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you so much.
10:14:30 The line is getting link longer and the time is getting
10:14:32 shorter so sometime these two axes are going to meet.
10:14:37 >> My name is Humiar Ahmad, and I work for the Scott's
10:14:38 Miracle-Gro company.
10:14:40 I'm on the sales side of the business.
10:14:41 And I service stores within the City of Tampa.
10:14:47 The fertilizer ban, sales ban, goes into effect, myself
10:14:51 and my team may lose our jobs.
10:14:54 Thank you.
10:14:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:14:58 >> My name is Tom Krumreich, Florida action network,
10:15:06 and also myself.
10:15:07 And every argumentative heard from the industry, from
10:15:12 every piece of information I've seen based on the
10:15:15 experience, real life experience of Sarasota, has been
10:15:17 proven wrong.
10:15:18 And this is the most effective way to control the
10:15:23 nitrogen and phosphorus.
10:15:25 So FCAN has supported this from day one.
10:15:30 I have been working for at least three years on this so
10:15:33 this is not new.
10:15:34 We have been working on this for three years.
10:15:36 So FCAN strongly supports the pass passage of the
10:15:40 strong fertilizer ordinance.
10:15:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:15:43 Next, please.
10:15:43 >> I'm Chris Wible of Scott's Miracle-Gro company.
10:15:50 I encourage you not to adopt this ordinance as
10:15:54 This ordinance has been considered by a number of other
10:15:57 communities, over 40 other communities have all
10:16:00 rejected the provisions of this ordinance with the
10:16:02 exception of one, being Pinellas County.
10:16:05 All of the counties, the local governments that
10:16:09 consulted ZAC, D.E.P. or IFAS, decided this is not can
10:16:18 actually harm water quality and they list listened to
10:16:21 that advice and rejected these provisions.
10:16:24 You this morning got those inputs from IFAS, back from
10:16:29 D.E.P., and we believe you should take those issues
10:16:31 into consideration prior to passing the ordinance, not
10:16:33 after passing the ordinance.
10:16:34 On the screen is the Tampa Bay estuary program report
10:16:38 that is the foundation of the model ordinance.
10:16:41 This is the report.
10:16:43 In this report, 50% slow release is not advised.
10:16:47 That was vetted in the workshops and decided against.
10:16:51 It is an arbitrary number with no scientific basis,
10:16:54 it's not included in the report.
10:16:55 This report also includes the fact that or the estimate
10:16:58 that the nitrogen loading from the bay of fertilizers
10:17:02 is less than 4%, and if this ordinance is adopted and
10:17:07 all the communities in the watershed, it would improve
10:17:09 water quality by less than 1%.
10:17:11 The 8-ton number keeps getting repeated.
10:17:15 That is if all communities adopted this.
10:17:17 If Tampa city adopts this, it's significantly less than
10:17:22 A lot has changed since this report was published in
10:17:26 Since 2008 DACS passed a turf rule and changed its
10:17:33 content and labeling.
10:17:34 Nitrogen has been reduced.
10:17:36 The model ordinance has been passed since then which
10:17:38 was adopted by the league cities.
10:17:42 What hasn't changed is the recommendations for the
10:17:44 model ordinance that you are considering which has been
10:17:46 rejected by over 40 other communities.
10:17:49 In Pinellas County, they did not raise the bar, they
10:17:52 lowered the bar.
10:17:53 The high technology, low nitrogen products are not on
10:17:57 the shelves any longer.
10:17:58 What's on the shelves now are high nitrogen,
10:18:01 40-year-old technology products.
10:18:03 So we have not raised the bar, we have lowered it.
10:18:06 So I respectfully request that council address the
10:18:10 comments that were received from the state agencies,
10:18:12 take those into consideration prior to passing the
10:18:15 model ordinance, follow the lead of Hillsborough
10:18:17 County, who thoroughly vetted the issues.
10:18:21 (Bell sounds).
10:18:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:18:23 Next, please.
10:18:24 >> Good morning.
10:18:28 My name is Christine Miller.
10:18:29 I'm a 15 year resident of the Seminole Heights
10:18:32 community here in Tampa.
10:18:35 I have been in the lawn and garden industry for the
10:18:37 past 14 years.
10:18:39 I worked as a sales trainer for our sales and service
10:18:44 team that goes into the big box stores and independent
10:18:48 garden centers and retailers to sell and service our
10:18:52 That includes educating store associates on the proper
10:18:56 use of the products and selections for consumers.
10:18:59 We work with consumers on the weekend to help them
10:19:02 select the right product and talk about good lawn
10:19:05 maintenance practices including making sure that all
10:19:09 fertilizers brush p back into the lawns after
10:19:12 application, and by passing the retail ban, you are
10:19:15 putting those jobs at risk.
10:19:17 Let me be clear.
10:19:19 Those jobs are at risk.
10:19:21 I have seen the media reports that some of you feel
10:19:23 that there will not be any economic impact by passing
10:19:29 this ordinance.
10:19:30 And I'm here to tell you that it is patently false.
10:19:33 The way that our company determines the hours allocated
10:19:36 to the stores is based on sales.
10:19:38 It's a percentage of sales.
10:19:39 If we are not selling the products, that percentage of
10:19:43 hours is taken from that city.
10:19:45 So the people that work in that city don't get those
10:19:48 Also, the big box retailers determine their labor hours
10:19:52 based on previous week's sales.
10:19:54 So it is a direct correlation between the sales going
10:19:59 out it register and the dollars allocated to labor at
10:20:03 the store and the manufacturer partners of the
10:20:05 retailers that provide sales and service to that store.
10:20:09 As a member of this community for 15 years, I can tell
10:20:12 you, my neighbors don't care about this ordinance.
10:20:17 They care about the fact that their home values are
10:20:19 going down.
10:20:20 They care about the vacant properties and the
10:20:22 foreclosures all around them in southeast Seminole
10:20:25 And you know what?
10:20:26 A beautiful lawn inspires your neighborhood.
10:20:29 I have seen time and time again.
10:20:31 And if you pass this resale ban without the science --
10:20:38 and the signs will tell you clearly that a retail ban
10:20:41 and consumer ban is not the answer or the solution.
10:20:43 A well maintained lawn holds nutrients in it.
10:20:47 A nasty, dirty, weed infested lawn has the most runoff.
10:20:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
10:20:55 I am going to stop here.
10:20:56 But I need council permission for an additional ten
10:21:00 But in a one else can get in lien after this.
10:21:03 I have ten more minutes and I'm stopping this hearing.
10:21:05 We allowed 30.
10:21:06 I have already been passed 30 by about eight minutes.
10:21:08 I am going to allow ten more minutes and I need
10:21:12 permission for ten additional ten minutes.
10:21:15 So moved by Mr. Suarez, second by Mr. Cohen.
10:21:17 All in favor?
10:21:19 The Ayes have it unanimously.
10:21:20 >> My name is John Grant.
10:21:23 I represent extensive enterprises which represents a
10:21:27 coalition of businessmen and women in this city, who
10:21:32 would be punitively economically impacted by the
10:21:34 passage of this orthopedics.
10:21:35 I support protecting the environment I was born within
10:21:37 walking distance of where I am now standing and people
10:21:39 ask me if I lived in Tampa all my life and I tell them
10:21:42 not yet.
10:21:43 [ Laughter ]
10:21:44 I support the environment and protecting it but I
10:21:48 oppose a law that's economically punitive and legally
10:21:51 Others talked to you about the scientific.
10:21:53 I want to zero in quickly on the economic.
10:21:55 I have some real questions about the delayed
10:21:57 application and enforcement about the adoption
10:22:01 And if you pass this ordinance it's going to be like
10:22:03 the ball player that hit the ball out of the park and
10:22:06 was called out at home plate because he failed to tag
10:22:09 first base.
10:22:10 I think you have failed to tag all the bases in this
10:22:13 That argument will move down the street to the
10:22:15 I don't know what the judge will decide but I can tell
10:22:17 that you litigation is certain.
10:22:20 I have met with many of you.
10:22:21 I have met with the city attorneys office.
10:22:23 I appreciate their offer to put a 90-day period to make
10:22:27 a bad ordinance better, and we will do everything we
10:22:29 can to work to make that happen, and I hope you will
10:22:32 take that approach.
10:22:34 From the economic standpoint, the city legal fees are
10:22:36 going to be extensive.
10:22:37 You are going to have to justify hiring fertilizer cops
10:22:40 when you are laying off street cops in a tight budget
10:22:44 You are going to punitively hurt small businesses and
10:22:47 not only those selling landscape, when people drive out
10:22:51 to the county on Hillsborough Avenue, 16th, Dale
10:22:55 Mabry, go out of the county, they are going to buy all
10:22:58 their other gardening supplies while they are there
10:23:01 and, oh, by the way, have lunch at Mimi's, and the CVS
10:23:05 drugstore out there, and you are going to take a lot of
10:23:07 economic activity out of the city, and you are going to
10:23:09 hurt businessmen and women in the city.
10:23:12 You are going to hurt landscapers.
10:23:14 This ordinance hasn't really been thought through.
10:23:17 For example, why isn't there a carveout for
10:23:20 You can't solve lawns without applying fertilizer.
10:23:24 Now you have a carve out in your sprinkling ordinance
10:23:26 that says if you have new landscaping you can water
10:23:29 more than once a week.
10:23:30 Why is that not applied here?
10:23:32 You can't put in sod without having the ability to
10:23:37 So it more than about fertilizer sales.
10:23:41 It's about the economic impact on this city.
10:23:44 I was in Tallahassee for the legislative session when
10:23:48 they adopted the preemption ordinance as a precursor to
10:23:51 having a responsible and reasonable statewide unified
10:23:54 application statute, and the governor signed that bill
10:23:57 into law this week, house bill 1750.
10:24:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:24:02 >> And I will be there to help the next session to get
10:24:05 that ordinance.
10:24:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:24:07 Next, please.
10:24:08 >> I'm Trisha Kirby.
10:24:14 I was born at MacDill Air Force Base in Tampa.
10:24:16 So Tampa is my home.
10:24:19 I would just like to say the key issue here seems to be
10:24:21 an education issue both on the business end and on the
10:24:25 buying end or the homeowner end.
10:24:27 So really you have the issue made.
10:24:30 Way would like to ask everyone in the room who is --
10:24:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No, we are not going to have a show
10:24:35 of hands.
10:24:35 This is not a class.
10:24:37 >> Then I would like to say the little pink stickers.
10:24:40 What I would like to, do I know each of you personally,
10:24:42 I motel you on the campaign trail, I think you are
10:24:44 wonderful, every one of you are great people, and I
10:24:46 would like to thank you for your interest in protecting
10:24:48 our water.
10:24:49 It's the single biggest issue on the planet today is
10:24:52 water quality.
10:24:52 Anything we can do in support of that, please do that
10:24:55 and I thank you for even putting this forward.
10:24:57 I appreciate your vote in support of this ordinance.
10:24:59 Thank you.
10:24:59 >> Thank you very much.
10:25:01 If I am rushing you, I'm trying to so everybody can
10:25:04 >> I'll be quick.
10:25:06 Good morning.
10:25:06 My name is Lindsey Pickel, Florida coastal and ocean
10:25:10 We are a coalition of eight statewide and national
10:25:13 environmental organizations, and we support a summer
10:25:16 sales ban and support a strong fertilizer ordinance.
10:25:19 Preventing nutrients from reaching the waters of Tampa
10:25:22 Bay will not only be an economic -- it will remove an
10:25:26 economic burden but it will also be an incentive for
10:25:30 tourism and for other areas of our economy.
10:25:32 By removing these nutrients before they hit the water,
10:25:35 we are saving money that would be spent removing them
10:25:38 from the water, a much more costly procedure.
10:25:41 And protecting our natural resources is going to
10:25:43 protect our economy and our tourism industry which we
10:25:46 all know is the backbone of Florida in these economic
10:25:48 times, we certainly cannot afford to lose those
10:25:53 And on a personal note, I am a long-time resident of
10:25:57 Tampa Bay.
10:25:57 I live in South Tampa.
10:25:59 I spend as much time on the water as possible.
10:26:01 And in my lifetime, I have seen the changes to these
10:26:05 areas' waters.
10:26:07 And how that can be attributed to the nutrients coming
10:26:11 So the coalition asks that you support a summer sales
10:26:14 ban and implement a strong fertilizer ordinance.
10:26:17 Thank you.
10:26:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:26:19 Next, please.
10:26:19 >> Jim Battel, Scott's lawn service.
10:26:26 I'm paid by the Scott's company.
10:26:28 I work out of Lee County where my office is located.
10:26:31 My office sits, service center basically where we have
10:26:37 the blackout period, we handle customers from Sarasota
10:26:40 to Bradenton.
10:26:41 I would say our customers are confused.
10:26:43 We service well over 8,000 customers in that area
10:26:46 Got 500 employees across the state.
10:26:49 I can guarantee and give you fact today that I will
10:26:52 have to lay off 20% of my employees if you implement
10:26:55 this ordinance.
10:26:57 You know, we are talking about fact and science that we
10:26:59 don't have and we are trying to implement this thing
10:27:01 before July 1st.
10:27:02 I'm really hoping that you go back and rethink this.
10:27:05 And it's all about education.
10:27:07 It is all about education.
10:27:08 I sit right outside customer service and I listen to
10:27:11 the customers that call from Sarasota, Bradenton, those
10:27:14 areas, that if you don't do it, I will get somebody
10:27:17 that can.
10:27:18 So we need to really think about not only chops, we are
10:27:24 talking about a budget cut here, we are not going to be
10:27:27 able to police and hold people accountable to an
10:27:30 ordinance that we are going to implement that makes no
10:27:33 I really hope you reconsider and rethink that as soon
10:27:38 as you possibly can.
10:27:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:27:43 One more speaker after this one.
10:27:44 >> Pat Kemp, 25 year resident of Seminole Heights.
10:27:47 I want to thank you Councilwoman Mulhern for putting
10:27:49 forward this ordinance.
10:27:51 I want to thank council for its support for this
10:27:53 Since you have passed this, I want to let you know that
10:27:58 it's extremely important that you continue your support
10:28:00 for this.
10:28:01 A preliminary report by the international program on
10:28:03 the state of the ocean was just released, the head
10:28:07 scientist said the findings were shocking.
10:28:09 He said it's a very serious situation demanding
10:28:12 unequivocal action at every level including the City
10:28:16 We are looking at the consequences for humankind that
10:28:19 will impact on our lifetime and worse our children in
10:28:22 generations beyond that.
10:28:23 The panel concluded that degeneration of the oceans is
10:28:27 happening much faster than we thought.
10:28:32 There are three major factors present, and mass
10:28:34 extinctions that have occurred in the past and are
10:28:38 occurring now, hypoxia, low oxygen, lack of oxygen that
10:28:42 creates dead zones, and the warning that the
10:28:45 combination of these factors will inevitably cause a
10:28:48 mass marine extinction if swift action isn't taken.
10:28:52 This is just one of several reports released, declared
10:28:56 oysters as functionally extinct, by over harvesting and
10:29:04 This year's Gulf dead zone will be the largest in
10:29:06 history due to increased runoff dragging in high levels
10:29:10 of nitrates and phosphates and some fertilizers.
10:29:14 You know, for many for so long we have been ignorant
10:29:17 about the kinds of actions that we take and how it
10:29:20 affect the water around us, our ocean, our wonderful
10:29:23 natural resources, but we are no longer ignorant. We
10:29:28 have the science now. To do anything less than to pass
10:29:31 this ordinance, it would be an irresponsible action.
10:29:35 We really have to think about what we are doing.
10:29:37 And I think this will go a long way to changing the
10:29:39 culture and the way that people look at how they use
10:29:42 fertilizers and this is the way that we are looking at
10:29:45 the Gulf and using our resources.
10:29:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
10:29:48 Next, please.
10:29:49 >> Warren Clark.
10:29:53 I'm a resident of Temple Terrace.
10:29:55 I have been a resident here in the Tampa Bay area
10:29:56 mostly in the city for the last 30 years.
10:30:00 I think that what we are listening to this morning is
10:30:04 something that is core to even in the creation story.
10:30:07 And in the creation story says that God gave two human
10:30:12 beings dominion over the earth.
10:30:17 Those an interesting word.
10:30:18 Does that mean dominance?
10:30:20 Does that mean use?
10:30:22 Does that mean taking it and using it in any way that
10:30:25 we want to?
10:30:26 I think that what we are coming to understand now, as a
10:30:30 community, is that we are called by God, whatever your
10:30:35 name for God would be, and ours, we are called to be
10:30:39 very good care takers of this creation.
10:30:44 It is absolutely stunningly beautiful.
10:30:47 I happen to have the privilege of living on the river
10:30:50 in Temple Terrace.
10:30:51 This morning, I went out to the river, and I got this
10:30:56 I called this for want of a nonscientific term mucky
10:31:02 It is the stuff that grows when there is this kind of
10:31:08 And it really problem liver rates at times so much so
10:31:11 that at the bridge going over the Hillsborough River
10:31:14 near USF, there are times when for months it's
10:31:18 impassable because this has gone onto all the other
10:31:23 stuff that that is growing in the rich nitrogen
10:31:26 fertilizer environment there, such that it becomes
10:31:30 That's what we are talking about.
10:31:31 This is the real stuff.
10:31:34 And this is about us being very good care caretakers.
10:31:40 As a community, in exercising real dominion as God has
10:31:45 called us to do.
10:31:46 Thank you.
10:31:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:31:47 I know -- [ Applause ]
10:31:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No, please.
10:31:51 I don't want this to be The Gong Show.
10:31:53 I know these two gentlemen have been standing here for
10:31:55 a few minutes.
10:31:55 With council permission I am going to allow them a
10:31:57 minute each.
10:31:58 I am sure they are going to have something real
10:32:00 important, real new that we haven't heard.
10:32:04 Motion by Mr. Suarez, second by Mr. Cohen.
10:32:07 Yes, sir?
10:32:07 >> I don't have any water to present to you.
10:32:17 Before the consumer action network.
10:32:19 I want to add that we have 700 members within city
10:32:22 Tampa limits as well as a few other hundred in
10:32:26 Hillsborough County and a few thousand in strong
10:32:29 support of this ordinance.
10:32:30 This is the right ordinance at the right time and we
10:32:32 appreciate your support.
10:32:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much, sir.
10:32:36 Next, please.
10:32:38 >> My name is Gary Elsworth, president of south
10:32:41 Seminole Heights civic association.
10:32:43 And I would dream about getting paid for being here.
10:32:51 One thing to put up on the Elmo, and this is something
10:32:54 for us to ponder.
10:32:55 I think between first and second reading we decided we
10:32:57 needed to pony up $162 million to fix a reservoir.
10:33:02 So I guess my rhetorical question today would be if we
10:33:05 are going to spend this kind of money to fix a
10:33:07 reservoir why would we not be concerned about what we
10:33:10 are going to put into it?
10:33:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much, sir.
10:33:13 I think we have taken the public comment.
10:33:14 We went way far beyond the 30 minutes.
10:33:17 I thought it was very beneficial not only for council
10:33:20 members but for all in attendance and all who are going
10:33:23 to read, see it and feel it.
10:33:26 Basically there were some questions as the speakers
10:33:29 came up about the items that you had.
10:33:32 Council, is that anything that in any way would change
10:33:35 the course of action between first and second reading
10:33:37 in this ordinance?
10:33:41 >>JAN MCLEAN: Assistant city attorney.
10:33:42 No, sir, it will not.
10:33:43 The documents that we have requested and we have been
10:33:46 receiving that form the basis of our decision, we have
10:33:51 looked through them, we have not had a chance to
10:33:53 respond to the agencies, which is another reason that
10:33:57 we asked you for the 90 to 120 days to return if there
10:33:59 are any recommendations.
10:34:01 But does not change our recommendation to you this
10:34:03 morning with this ordinance.
10:34:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any question by council members?
10:34:12 Ms. Mulhern,.
10:34:16 >>MARY MULHERN: Jan, I wanted you to tell everyone
10:34:21 here if this is adopted when does become effective?
10:34:24 >>JAN MCLEAN: The ordinance becomes effective
10:34:27 The way it is written it would not be implemented until
10:34:30 June of 2012.
10:34:31 And that is what we have found that we are following in
10:34:34 the footsteps of as our partner Pinellas County and
10:34:40 Hillsborough EPC rule as well, that there was a hiatus,
10:34:44 if you will, to educate the jurisdiction as to what the
10:34:50 new law would be.
10:34:50 >>MARY MULHERN: So June 1st, 2012?
10:34:56 >>JAN MCLEAN: Yes.
10:34:58 Whether it's June 1st or June 30th, June 2012.
10:35:03 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
10:35:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Reddick, then Mr. Suarez.
10:35:07 >>FRANK REDDICK: Again I have a question for the
10:35:14 economic impact.
10:35:19 Still I have not received anything from you all but you
10:35:22 are asking us to vote on something that we don't all
10:35:26 the information that we should be honest with ours,
10:35:30 what is going to be the economic impact to those who
10:35:33 are affected by this in the community?
10:35:35 Again, do you have that?
10:35:40 >>JAN MCLEAN: Wave not conducted an economic impact
10:35:43 analysis between the time that we have come to you and
10:35:46 acknowledged to you what our deadlines would be from
10:35:49 the legislative-imposed deadline.
10:35:52 We have identified what retail outlets would be
10:35:56 affected within the jurisdiction of the City of Tampa.
10:36:01 I have Nanette O'Hara and coupled with the stormwater
10:36:06 division have looked at how many would be affected.
10:36:10 And if you would like, they can come and speak to that
10:36:14 We have also discussed with folks with regard to the
10:36:19 development of new fertilizer products that have arisen
10:36:23 during the course of the ban, the Pinellas County ban.
10:36:27 So to your question, sir, that is a no, we do not have
10:36:31 an economic analysis, and that is something that we
10:36:35 might want to consider conducting if you would so
10:36:39 direct in the next 90 to 120 days or even before the
10:36:45 full implementation of the ordinance.
10:36:46 >>FRANK REDDICK: Well, did you state to me in our last
10:36:53 meeting that you had spoken with individuals and had
10:36:58 these discussions, because I requested then that that
10:37:02 be submitted to me prior to this meeting today.
10:37:05 But since you just brought this up, again, I would like
10:37:13 to have that information before I could support this.
10:37:15 And I understand the urgency that everyone is
10:37:21 requesting that we devote -- that we vote today.
10:37:25 But I don't think it fair to me as a council person,
10:37:33 I'm the only one who voted against it as previously
10:37:37 stated, and I don't know the economic impact if it
10:37:41 would change anybody else's mind.
10:37:43 But if you had discussed this with someone, and has
10:37:49 some clue of how it will affect some businesses, then I
10:37:52 think it is fair that this information should have been
10:37:56 shared, even from the last meeting or after the last
10:38:01 meeting since I requested this on record, this the
10:38:05 third time, and we still have not received it.
10:38:08 So I think you put this council in an unfair -- you are
10:38:17 putting us in a position where it's not fair to make a
10:38:21 fair judgment, and will affect a lot of businesses and
10:38:27 we don't have no numbers, and then we can come back and
10:38:31 find out we have voted and say 90 days from now, if
10:38:38 there are still 50 poem out here affected, 5,000 people
10:38:44 are going to be laid off and we didn't know this prior
10:38:46 to us taking a vote today.
10:38:48 I just think it's unfair, and I could not support it.
10:38:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:38:54 Mr. Suarez?
10:38:55 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Ms. McLean, for the public's reasoning
10:38:59 here, let's explain why we have to pass an ordinance
10:39:03 Am I correct in saying that if we do not pass an
10:39:06 ordinance now, because of the deadline of July 1st,
10:39:08 we CEDE the right to have a more restrictive ordinance.
10:39:13 Is that correct?
10:39:15 >>JAN MCLEAN: That's correct.
10:39:16 If you do not pass an ordinance that has a restriction
10:39:18 on the ban of the sale of fertilizers, then the new
10:39:24 legislation preempts local government from doing so.
10:39:30 If you have an ordinance on the books as of July
10:39:32 1st, then you can continue to enforce that within
10:39:36 your jurisdiction.
10:39:37 Otherwise, the state will have that authority to
10:39:42 >> And that additionally means that we can also change
10:39:46 whatever the model ordinance is, would that 90 or
10:39:55 120-day period to come up with a better solution,
10:39:59 >>JAN MCLEAN: You can certainly always change your
10:40:01 You are well within your authority to do that.
10:40:03 The statute requires that you use the model ordinance
10:40:07 that is adopted, promulgated by Florida department of
10:40:14 environmental protection as the basis of your
10:40:19 And that's really a good question.
10:40:21 I'm glad that you asked me that.
10:40:22 Because we use the Hillsborough County Environmental
10:40:24 Protection Commission's rule as the basis of the
10:40:30 ordinance that you have in front of you.
10:40:32 You will see that some of the comments that we received
10:40:34 from the agencies are, well, you didn't include a
10:40:39 buffer zone where you can apply, or you didn't include
10:40:43 certain definitions.
10:40:44 Well, that's because we did not mean to have an
10:40:49 all-encompassing ordinance.
10:40:51 We meant to be supplemental to the Environmental
10:40:52 Protection Commission's rule, which is to be
10:40:55 implemented throughout the county.
10:40:56 So we have the two more restrictive measures within our
10:41:00 >> Well, the discussion about the county's ordinance
10:41:04 versus our proposed ordinance, I think one of problems
10:41:10 that I have -- and I want to echo some of the things
10:41:12 that Councilman Reddick had talked about -- is there's
10:41:16 two things that worry me, is whether or not a ban is
10:41:20 the best way to make sure that we get phosphorus and
10:41:25 nitrogen out of the waterways.
10:41:27 I know that because a lot of these ordinances are
10:41:31 relatively new, we really don't know the answer to
10:41:33 We make a supposition based on the fact that it's one
10:41:36 of the easier ways to kind of enforce the rule.
10:41:41 So one of the things that I want to find out is if we
10:41:45 have people who are applicators who understand how to
10:41:49 apply fertilizer during the season, is that a better
10:41:53 way of approaching it?
10:41:54 Obviously we have not had the time to go through not
10:41:59 only the science of this -- and I speak for all of us
10:42:02 None of us are scientists and it's very difficult to
10:42:04 have the competing scientific reasonings for or against
10:42:08 the use of fertilizers during rainy season.
10:42:11 But we also do not have what kind of impact it's going
10:42:14 to have on the rest of community, whether it's sales or
10:42:19 even in terms of other ways of runoff.
10:42:21 If we have a county ban -- excuse me, a county
10:42:25 ordinance that allows people to go buy fertilizer, is
10:42:28 that still going to have the same kind of effect?
10:42:30 We don't have any numbers.
10:42:32 And how many people are going to do that?
10:42:34 Obviously because we don't know.
10:42:35 Some of the things that the Sierra Club brought up to
10:42:37 us on some of the cities and counties that had actually
10:42:41 passed prior to the model ordinance, I would like to
10:42:45 find out information about that.
10:42:47 And I will support having a 90 to 120-day period in
10:42:52 which we look at this.
10:42:53 So I just want to be clear.
10:42:55 The reason we are passing this now is so we have the
10:42:57 ability to have an even more stringent ordinance, or a
10:43:01 different ordinance than what is currently on the
10:43:03 books, and for the state.
10:43:05 >> Yes, sir.
10:43:06 And, actually, with regards to bringing back
10:43:11 information for you to make recommendations as to
10:43:14 whether you do any revisions or not, it's actually a
10:43:18 special time to do this because Pinellas County kind of
10:43:22 sees this in reverse.
10:43:24 We are a municipalities within a county and the county
10:43:25 has decided not to implement the more restrictive
10:43:28 measures of sales and application during the summer.
10:43:32 The restricted season.
10:43:35 Whereas Pinellas County took it upon themselves as the
10:43:37 larger county to adopt that kind of ordinance, and then
10:43:41 the different municipalities either opted in or not.
10:43:44 And there, Pinellas County's ordinance goes into
10:43:47 effect, I believe, went into effect on the 1st of
10:43:53 So they are in the first implementation period, the
10:43:54 rainy season, over the next June 1st through
10:43:58 September 30th.
10:43:59 We can work with them and get that information as to
10:44:02 how that was implemented, the difference different
10:44:06 information to bring forward on the basis for to you
10:44:08 make any decisions for any revisions.
10:44:10 Yes, from the agencies, there's been the statements as
10:44:13 one of the speakers said here today that there isn't
10:44:16 scientific evidence to support it there.
10:44:18 Isn't scientific evidence to refute it because there
10:44:21 hasn't been this kind of an ordinance previously to
10:44:24 Pinellas County except into the state of Wisconsin.
10:44:28 And we have been working to kind of glean any
10:44:30 information from the state of Wisconsin which could be
10:44:32 relevant to this ordinance as well.
10:44:35 So we do have that opportunity to bring that
10:44:37 information back to you.
10:44:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
10:44:40 Any other council members?
10:44:42 All right.
10:44:44 Ms. Montelione.
10:44:45 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
10:44:48 I am concerned when we begin to pit the loss of jobs
10:44:55 against the protection of our environment.
10:44:56 I don't believe that they are hand in hand.
10:45:00 I believe that it is our duty to protect our
10:45:04 environment, which does protect jobs.
10:45:07 It protects tourism jobs, it brings people to our
10:45:10 state, and in some ways it promotes job creation within
10:45:17 our state to protect our environment, protect our
10:45:20 With that being said, I do understand that from some of
10:45:24 the gentlemen who spoke here today that they would be
10:45:28 laying off staff, and from someone who spoke that she's
10:45:31 a sales trainer and her company assists those in big
10:45:36 box retailers with training their staff.
10:45:39 What concerns me about that is that we have been
10:45:43 talking this morning about how important it is to
10:45:46 educate consumers, homeowners, and in our own ordinance
10:45:51 to educate the supervisors and fertilizer turf
10:45:57 So I'm not sure why people would be put out of work in
10:46:03 sales field, in the education field, if we are talking
10:46:06 about educating people in the proper fertilizers and
10:46:11 the application of the proper fertilization of the
10:46:15 So I'm not sure why we would be losing training and
10:46:19 education jobs when we are talking about having more
10:46:21 opportunities for training and education.
10:46:24 And for companies that are in the sales field, and who
10:46:28 manufacture these products, I would like to ask if
10:46:33 there are other products that they will be selling in
10:46:35 replace of the ones that will be pulled from the
10:46:38 shelves during the proposed point of sale fertilizer
10:46:42 So is that the only product they sell that would affect
10:46:47 the volume of business they do?
10:46:52 >>JAN MCLEAN: Again, the reason I turned around is
10:46:54 because I was looking for Nanette who has been --
10:46:57 looking for Nanette who has been working over the last
10:47:00 There has been to my knowledge new products developed
10:47:02 that would be able to be used during the restricted
10:47:09 If you would like, she can speak to that and have that
10:47:13 on the record.
10:47:13 >> Thank you.
10:47:19 Councilwoman, the Pinellas County --
10:47:21 >> I need your name.
10:47:22 >> Nanette O'Hara, Tampa Bay estuary program, address
10:47:26 310 west crest Avenue, Tampa.
10:47:29 And there are, from October through May, the Pinellas
10:47:32 County ordinance requires fertilizers that contain a
10:47:35 minimum of 50% slow release nitrogen.
10:47:38 There are lots and lots of those products that were on
10:47:42 the shelves, January through May, in Pinellas County.
10:47:47 As I said during my presentation, the county has
10:47:49 certified 85 different products.
10:47:51 Most of those are made by Florida companies.
10:47:53 Currently, there are fewer products because the idea is
10:47:56 that people should not be applying nitrogen fertilizer
10:47:59 in the summer, but there are still 35 products that are
10:48:02 primarily micronutrients, iron, and some composted
10:48:08 products allowed under the Pinellas County ordinance so
10:48:10 again the shelves are not empty.
10:48:12 It's just shifting the business model to different
10:48:15 >>LISA MONTELIONE: On the other side with the jobs and
10:48:19 maybe one of the industry representatives would like to
10:48:22 answer this.
10:48:23 We have been asked to consider scientific, relevant
10:48:28 evidence, and we have heard numbers of 25% of the staff
10:48:35 being laid off or the entire sales team not having a
10:48:39 But speaking to Mr. Reddick's point, we haven't seen
10:48:42 any numbers of the impact of job loss or job creation
10:48:48 once this ordinance, proposed ordinance goes into
10:48:52 So perhaps maybe some solid concrete numbers, if we are
10:48:58 asking for decisions to be made on the solid concrete
10:49:01 evidence of the scientific community, then maybe we
10:49:06 could have some solid concrete numbers that are
10:49:09 verifiable by economic impact as Mr. Reddick has been
10:49:13 asking for.
10:49:14 Thank you.
10:49:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
10:49:16 Ms. Capin, then Mr. Cohen would like to speak.
10:49:18 Who is -- here is your chance, Mr. Cohen.
10:49:21 >>HARRY COHEN: Very briefly, two comments, Mr. Chair.
10:49:25 The first is that if we don't act today we are
10:49:31 basically going to CEDE all authority over this issue
10:49:35 to the state
10:49:36 And that's correct?
10:49:43 >>JAN MCLEAN: You have a more restrictive issue, more
10:49:45 restrictive version.
10:49:46 >>HARRY COHEN: And I just want to say for the record
10:49:49 for to the public that given the state's recent record
10:49:54 on protecting our environment it makes me very
10:49:56 uncomfortable to do that.
10:49:58 That's number one.
10:50:00 Number two, to the argument that people are going to go
10:50:11 outside the city limits to purchase things that may be
10:50:13 band, there may be people that do that but I believe
10:50:16 there will also be people as a result of this action
10:50:18 that will learn a little more about the products that
10:50:20 are for sale and will actually make an effort to go out
10:50:23 and purchase something that is good for the environment
10:50:25 and good for the water.
10:50:27 Because I believe people care about the quality of our
10:50:29 water, and that they are just not going to wantonly
10:50:34 skirt the law for their own purposes.
10:50:35 That's all.
10:50:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
10:50:39 Ms. Capin?
10:50:40 Thank you very much.
10:50:41 You are a great council member.
10:50:42 Ms. Mulhern.
10:50:43 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
10:50:46 Mrs. Montelione kind of clarified what my feelings
10:50:49 about this, and I think that this is the really -- we
10:50:55 are doing something for the water with this ordinance,
10:51:00 to really clean up the water.
10:51:01 But some of the, I think, economic development impacts
10:51:05 from passing this are really good things.
10:51:08 And I think the idea that by changing what kind of
10:51:13 product can be sold is somehow going to cause an
10:51:18 overall job loss is really a false argument.
10:51:24 We are hearing from some of the biggest fertilizer
10:51:26 companies in the world telling us that they are going
10:51:30 to have to cut jobs.
10:51:31 Well, those are the companies that have the most
10:51:34 resources to develop a product.
10:51:39 If what you can tell sell, if that is changing, you
10:51:42 have got the resources to develop new products.
10:51:45 And I think it's very encouraging to hear that there is
10:51:49 a Florida company that in last few years has developed
10:51:53 85, I think that's what we heard, new products.
10:51:56 So we are not eliminating jobs.
10:51:59 We are really creating a new market.
10:52:03 And we see that we have got entrepreneurs in Florida,
10:52:07 and we know that local businesses really create more
10:52:10 jobs and put more money into the economy.
10:52:18 And I think the other thing is the big box retailers
10:52:21 are selling these products, and they are ready to do
10:52:24 So the market is telling these businesses, all the
10:52:30 fertilizer businesses, we have a new market, here is
10:52:34 your opportunity to develop the new product.
10:52:38 You have a year to get rid of the old stuff.
10:52:40 You can still sell it, get it off the shelves and start
10:52:43 developing a new product and become competitive. To me
10:52:46 that's good business.
10:52:47 So this idea, you know, unless suddenly people in Tampa
10:52:52 are going to -- who have been fertilizer their lawns
10:52:54 are going to quit fertilizing their lawns makes no
10:52:58 You are still going to go buy a product at your local
10:53:01 store and you are going to put it on your lawns.
10:53:04 So I think it's time for everybody to start working
10:53:10 together to create the kind of products that are going
10:53:13 to make this a place where people want to live.
10:53:16 And the reality is, tourists don't want to come to a
10:53:19 place where there are no fish.
10:53:21 And fishermen don't.
10:53:22 And people don't want to live in a place where the
10:53:25 water is polluted.
10:53:26 So this is all good for our economy.
10:53:30 And I think that's really what we heard today.
10:53:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:53:35 Anyone else?
10:53:36 >>FRANK REDDICK: Mr. Chairman, just a comment.
10:53:42 Hearing the council's comments, I still feel that it
10:53:45 would be one dissenting vote.
10:53:47 So therefore I will request that staff report back in
10:53:52 60 days an impact analysis pertaining to this issue.
10:54:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We have a motion.
10:54:04 I close this portion of it so we don't get it confused
10:54:07 on the record.
10:54:08 Because we went from baseball to lawsuit to police
10:54:10 department all in one breath, and I want to make sure
10:54:14 that all these topics are covered before I interject
10:54:17 other ideas into this hearing.
10:54:19 Anyone else?
10:54:25 I haven't spoken and I won't.
10:54:26 So I think enough has been said on both sides.
10:54:28 I appreciate everyone's attendance here this morning.
10:54:31 I appreciate the people who spoke and I appreciate the
10:54:34 people in the audience.
10:54:35 I appreciate the courtesy that you have given us.
10:54:37 And the council members have certainly taken into
10:54:40 consideration all the information.
10:54:43 We have abundance of record on this item.
10:54:47 And this is not new.
10:54:49 This has been passed in other areas.
10:54:52 It's also failed in other areas, being very candid.
10:54:57 So I need a motion to close this public hearing.
10:54:59 I have a motion to close by Mrs. Mulhern, seconded by
10:55:06 Mrs. Capin.
10:55:07 All in favor?
10:55:08 This public hearing is closed.
10:55:10 Now, since Mr. Reddick had a motion based on this, I am
10:55:13 going to let Mr. Reddick make his motion before we take
10:55:17 this item.
10:55:18 Mr. Reddick, you had a motion.
10:55:19 >>FRANK REDDICK: Yes, my motion was to request staff
10:55:23 to report back in 60 days of economic impact analysis
10:55:30 based on the final vote of this particular issue that
10:55:36 we are going to vote on.
10:55:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Reddick.
10:55:40 Do I have a second?
10:55:41 Second by Mr. Suarez.
10:55:45 Speaking on the motion?
10:55:46 Let me say it's going to be very difficult to get that
10:55:48 information, because this is a legal department.
10:55:51 This department doesn't have the tools and the
10:55:53 necessity to go out within 60 days and bring back that
10:55:56 candid information, I assume.
10:55:59 Again, I am making an assumption.
10:56:01 Because to do that, you have to go nationwide to every
10:56:05 distributor and every seller as to what proportionate
10:56:08 amount they sell, and as I heard earlier, if I remember
10:56:11 from the first hearing, there was about 15 companies,
10:56:14 am I correct?
10:56:16 >> 15 retail locations.
10:56:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So you may write them and ask them,
10:56:22 or maybe they are going to increase.
10:56:23 I don't know what they are going to do.
10:56:25 I have a motion on the floor.
10:56:26 All in favor?
10:56:28 Mrs. Mulhern?
10:56:30 >>MARY MULHERN: The attorney had asked us at the
10:56:33 beginning to request that they come back in 90 days.
10:56:38 And I'm wondering if Councilman Reddick would be
10:56:40 willing to change it to 90 days so that they could come
10:56:45 >>FRANK REDDICK: That would be fine.
10:56:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The motion made by Mr. Reddick, I
10:56:49 have the second by Mr. Suarez do. Accept 90 days
10:56:52 instead of 60 days?
10:56:53 They both accepted the friendly amendment by Mrs.
10:56:57 Are you ready to vote on Mr. Reddick's motion?
10:56:59 All in favor of that motion, seconded by Mr. Suarez,
10:57:02 please indicate by saying Aye.
10:57:04 Opposed, nay.
10:57:06 90 days.
10:57:10 >>JAN MCLEAN: Let me clarify.
10:57:11 My request at the beginning was to have us come back
10:57:13 with a full review of your ordinance with any
10:57:17 Mr. Reddick's motion was for an economic analysis of
10:57:20 the proposed ordinance.
10:57:22 Would that include the full review?
10:57:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, they are really two separate
10:57:27 Mr. Reddick is one about the economic.
10:57:29 We haven't voted on the second one that would allow you
10:57:31 the 90 to 120 days to come back with that portion.
10:57:35 Maybe I stand to correct myself later on but that's how
10:57:38 I see it so far.
10:57:40 >>JAN MCLEAN: Yes, sir.
10:57:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This hearing is closed.
10:57:44 Council members have asked questions.
10:57:46 Any other council member care to speak before I go to
10:57:47 the original maker of the first reading?
10:57:51 Ms. Mulhern.
10:57:52 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:57:57 I move an ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida
10:58:03 amending City of Tampa code of ordinances chapter 21
10:58:07 creating article V regulating the use and sale of
10:58:10 fertilizers containing nitrogen and/or phosphorus
10:58:14 within the City of Tampa providing for severability,
10:58:17 providing an effective date.
10:58:20 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Second.
10:58:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That was one.
10:58:23 I need that motion to be amended to say motion to
10:58:26 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
10:58:28 Do you want me to read it over?
10:58:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes, ma'am, please.
10:58:31 >>MARY MULHERN: I move to adopt an ordinance being
10:58:33 presented for second reading, an adoption of the City
10:58:37 of Tampa Florida amending City of Tampa code of
10:58:42 ordinances chapter 21 creating article 5 regulating the
10:58:45 use and sale of fertilizers containing nitrogen and/or
10:58:49 phosphorus within the City of Tampa providing for
10:58:52 severability, providing an effective date.
10:58:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a second by Mrs. Capin.
10:58:56 Vote and record.
10:58:56 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Reddick voting no.
10:59:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you all very much for
10:59:14 attending this morning's session.
10:59:17 We need an addition to that.
10:59:18 Now I need another motion for the legal department to
10:59:21 come back in 90 days.
10:59:23 I am going to specifically say 90.
10:59:25 Forget the 120.
10:59:27 To coincide with Mr. Reddick's and Mr. Swore he is'
10:59:31 >> So moved.
10:59:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, I had the floor.
10:59:38 I'm sorry, two very good council members so that will
10:59:41 go to Mrs. Montelione.
10:59:42 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Request for legal department to
10:59:47 come back within 90 days with any issues that need to
10:59:50 be address before the ordinance takes effect.
10:59:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And that ordinance takes effect in
10:59:56 June 2012.
10:59:57 I have a motion by Mrs. Montelione, second by Mrs.
11:00:01 Any further discussion?
11:00:02 All in favor?
11:00:04 The Ayes have it unanimously.
11:00:05 Thank you again all of you for attending.
11:00:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, I want to have a
11:00:09 clarification for the purposes of that motion.
11:00:12 Ms. Foxx-Knowles, did you want to clarify something?
11:00:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I really wasn't into that.
11:00:29 I don't know what was read into the record.
11:01:02 [Sounding gavel]
11:01:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let's hold it.
11:01:13 Wait a minute.
11:01:16 I don't know what was read.
11:01:17 We are going to take a five-minute recess.
11:11:44 >> The meeting is called back to order.
11:11:46 Roll call.
11:11:46 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Here.
11:11:50 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Here.
11:11:51 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
11:11:52 >>HARRY COHEN: Here.
11:11:54 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Here.
11:11:55 >>FRANK REDDICK: Here.
11:11:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
11:11:58 Let me first say, I am going to ask that item 85 be
11:12:01 again read for the public record.
11:12:03 I want to make sure that everything that was said is
11:12:07 said correctly.
11:12:08 And it's my fault, no one else's.
11:12:10 Mrs. Mulhern.
11:12:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I want to clarify for council and for
11:12:16 the record that this ordinance takes effect should
11:12:19 council pass it immediately upon the mayor's signature.
11:12:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I know that.
11:12:23 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The issue is the implementation will
11:12:25 be sometime in the future.
11:12:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I was going to say that.
11:12:28 Thank you very much.
11:12:32 Ms. Mulhern.
11:12:33 >>MARY MULHERN: I believe that was on the
11:12:36 implementation part was on the record from assistant
11:12:40 city attorney McLean.
11:12:42 I like this ordinance so much I am going to read it the
11:12:45 third time.
11:12:47 I move to adopt an ordinance being presented for second
11:12:52 reading and adoption -- I'm adopt being twice -- an
11:12:58 ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida amending the
11:13:00 City of Tampa code of ordinances, chapter 21 creating
11:13:05 article 5, regulating the use and sale of fertilizers
11:13:13 containing nitrogen and/or phosphorus within the city
11:13:17 of Tampa providing for severability providing an
11:13:20 effective date.
11:13:23 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Authority third time, second.
11:13:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
11:13:25 Roll call vote and record.
11:13:28 And let me say in voting all ordinances become law when
11:13:32 the mayor signs it, whether it's this afternoon or
11:13:34 tomorrow, they become law when the mayor signs it, all
11:13:38 of them, not only this one.
11:13:41 Vote and record.
11:13:41 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Reddick voting no.
11:13:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
11:13:48 Since we do have 85 and 95 I am going to take the
11:13:52 leisure to go through these hopefully quickly.
11:13:54 Item 86 is the second reading on adoption.
11:13:57 Of this ordinance.
11:14:04 Would anyone in the audience care to speak on item 86?
11:14:08 This hearing is open.
11:14:09 Anyone care to speak on item 86?
11:14:11 Is the petitioner here?
11:14:13 Is the city here?
11:14:14 Is anyone here?
11:14:15 Yes, sir?
11:14:31 >>MORRIS MASSEY: Morris Massey.
11:14:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone else to speak on item 86?
11:14:37 I see no one.
11:14:38 >> Motion to close.
11:14:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: By Mr. Suarez.
11:14:42 Second by Mrs. Montelione.
11:14:43 (Motion carried).
11:14:46 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I move an ordinance for adoption
11:14:48 being presented for second reading, an ordinance of the
11:14:50 city of Tampa, Florida relating to college use in Ybor
11:14:52 City making revisions to City of Tampa code of
11:14:55 ordinances chapter 27 zoning amending sections 27-177
11:14:59 official schedule of district regulations repealing all
11:15:03 ordinances or parts of ordinances in conflict
11:15:06 therewith, providing for severability, providing for
11:15:10 providing an effective date.
11:15:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mrs. Montelione, seconded
11:15:13 by Mr. Suarez.
11:15:14 Discussion on the motion?
11:15:18 Roll call.
11:15:21 Vote and record.
11:15:38 We are going to have to revote.
11:15:40 There was a mistake made, I believe, right?
11:15:42 Please clear the screen.
11:15:45 We are going to revote on 2011-8.
11:15:49 Vote and record.
11:15:50 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
11:16:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item 87.
11:16:06 This is open for public discussion.
11:16:09 Anyone in the audience care to speak on 87?
11:16:13 >>MARK BENTLEY: 201 North Franklin Street.
11:16:16 I'm the applicant here to answer any questions council
11:16:18 may have.
11:16:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any questions by council members?
11:16:21 Anyone in the audience care to speak on item number 87?
11:16:23 I see in one.
11:16:24 I need a motion to close.
11:16:26 Motion to close by Mr. Suarez, second by Mrs. Mulhern.
11:16:29 All in favor?
11:16:30 The Ayes have it unanimously.
11:16:32 Vote and record.
11:16:37 Who moved the ordinance?
11:16:40 Whoa, whoa.
11:16:41 I went so fast I forgot.
11:16:43 Who wants to move this ordinance number 87?
11:16:47 Motion by Mr. Cohen, second by Mr. Suarez on a close
11:16:52 vote with Mr. Reddick.
11:16:54 >> Got to read it.
11:16:56 >>HARRY COHEN: I move an ordinance presented for second
11:16:59 reading and adoption, an ordinance of the city of
11:17:02 Tampa, Florida relating to microbrewery use making
11:17:04 revisions to city Tampa code of ordinances chapter 27
11:17:08 zoning amending section 27-77 official schedule of
11:17:11 district regulations, amending section 27-245,
11:17:16 definitions, repealing all ordinances or parts of
11:17:19 ordinances in conflict therewith, providing for
11:17:21 severability, providing an effective date.
11:17:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion made by Mr. Cohen, seconded
11:17:29 by Mr. Suarez on 87.
11:17:31 Vote and record.
11:17:31 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
11:17:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item 88.
11:17:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, 88 through 95 are
11:17:49 quasi-judicial which require the witnesses be sworn in,
11:17:52 and also if I can, Mr. Chairman, at this time I would
11:17:54 also like to ask that all documents that have been
11:17:58 available for public inspection receive in City
11:18:01 Council's office received and filed by motion prior to
11:18:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Need a mocks on 88 through 95.
11:18:12 Made received by Mrs. Mulhern.
11:18:17 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you could make that motion
11:18:19 relative to all the documents today.
11:18:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, I'll get back to that later.
11:18:23 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.
11:18:24 And we have to swear in the witnesses if there are any
11:18:27 that need to speak.
11:18:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The clerk will swear in everybody who
11:18:30 is going to speak on 88 through 95.
11:18:32 (Oath administered by Clerk)
11:18:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 88 is open, was opened earlier,
11:18:48 through 95.
11:18:50 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land Development Coordination.
11:18:52 Items number 88, 89, 90, 91 and 92 require certified
11:18:56 site plans.
11:18:57 Those site plans have been certified by the zoning
11:19:00 And I do have copies available for your review.
11:19:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
11:19:04 Is petitioner here?
11:19:05 >> I'm Terry McLaughlin with St. Josephs hospital
11:19:18 here to answer any questions there may be.
11:19:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
11:19:20 Any questions by council members?
11:19:22 I see none.
11:19:23 Anyone in the audience care to speak on item 88?
11:19:25 I see none.
11:19:26 Need a motion to close.
11:19:27 Motion made by Mr. Suarez, seconded by Mrs. Mulhern.
11:19:30 All in favor indicate by saying Aye.
11:19:32 The Ayes have it unanimously.
11:19:34 88 is now closed.
11:19:36 I need a motion.
11:19:40 Who is going to read this ordinance?
11:19:44 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance being presented
11:19:46 for second reading and adoption, an ordinance approving
11:19:49 a special use permit S-2 approving a heliport in an
11:19:54 OP-1 office professional zoning district in the general
11:19:57 vicinity of 3001 west Dr. Martin Luther King Boulevard
11:20:01 in the city of Tampa, Florida and more particularly
11:20:03 described in section 1 hereof providing an effective
11:20:05 >> I have a motion by Mrs. Mulhern, seconded by Mr.
11:20:12 Vote and record.
11:20:12 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
11:20:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
11:20:23 Item number 89.
11:20:26 Anyone in the audience care to speak on item 89?
11:20:29 >>MARK BENTLEY: 201 North Franklin Street.
11:20:42 I represent the applicant.
11:20:43 I'm here to answer any questions you may have.
11:20:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any questions by council members at
11:20:47 this time?
11:20:47 I see none.
11:20:48 Yes, sir.
11:20:50 >> Good morning, council, Mr. Chairman, members of
11:20:56 My name is Gary Elsworth, president of the south
11:20:59 Seminole Heights civic association.
11:21:00 First I want to single out Mrs. Mulhern and thank her
11:21:03 for several years ago coming out on two different
11:21:08 occasions and actually walking the neighborhood with me
11:21:11 and several other neighborhood representatives to look
11:21:13 at opportunities with form-based code.
11:21:17 Which is now hopefully coming Tom fruition very soon.
11:21:21 I'm sure you are all aware of challenges we have with
11:21:24 parking, and actually throughout the whole city how
11:21:26 many plans have fallen apart because of parking.
11:21:30 Great ideas that just don't come together because
11:21:32 there's in a place to park.
11:21:34 So I'm here today to please ask for the support of
11:21:38 this, because parking is very key component to any
11:21:41 successful businesses in Seminole Heights.
11:21:44 And this is certainly needed for any future
11:21:47 And, again, thank you for your support.
11:21:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
11:21:51 Anyone else care to speak?
11:21:53 Need a motion to close.
11:21:55 Motion by Mr. Reddick to close, second by Mr. Cohen.
11:21:58 All in favor?
11:22:00 The Ayes have it unanimously.
11:22:01 Mr. Reddick, would you kindly take number 89?
11:22:04 >>FRANK REDDICK: Move an ordinance being presented for
11:22:06 second reading and adoption, an ordinance approving a
11:22:09 special use permit S-2 approving parking off-street
11:22:12 commercial in an residential single-family zoning
11:22:16 district in the general vicinity of 4500 north Nebraska
11:22:20 Avenue in the city of Tampa, Florida and as more
11:22:23 particularly described in section is hereof providing
11:22:25 an effective date.
11:22:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Reddick,
11:22:28 seconded by Ms. Capin.
11:22:30 Vote and record.
11:22:30 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
11:22:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item number 90.
11:22:44 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
11:22:47 As Ms. Feeley advised, this particular site plan is
11:22:51 I did certify based on the motion that council made
11:22:53 from the first reading, and that correction was made.
11:22:56 I have had subsequent conversations with Mr. Bentley.
11:22:58 He does want to propose an amendment to that note
11:23:02 number 32 by was which was the condition imposed by
11:23:05 City Council.
11:23:05 If council is amenable to approving that condition,
11:23:07 that modification, then you would be approving this on
11:23:10 first reading.
11:23:12 If for some reason the condition isn't modified, you
11:23:15 still have the ability to approve on second reading,
11:23:18 because the plan is certified.
11:23:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Just for the record, Mr. Bentley has
11:23:22 to ask for that.
11:23:23 Yes, sir?
11:23:37 >>MARK BENTLEY: 201 North Franklin Street representing
11:23:41 Mr. Chairman, obviously you weren't here last time.
11:23:43 I just want to highlight a couple points.
11:23:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If I was absent, you're right, I
11:23:50 wasn't here.
11:23:53 >>MARK BENTLEY: I'm off to a good start.
11:23:55 In any event, you want to highlight a couple of points,
11:23:57 then I will get into what we are proposing here.
11:24:00 Here again, what the wet zoning associated with this
11:24:04 microbrewery, the magnitude of an old hops restaurant,
11:24:07 about, the primary use would be for retail sales of
11:24:11 equipment and materials to make home brew, beer and
11:24:17 Mr. Chairman, I think this is probably pretty important
11:24:20 to you, and I don't know if you picked up on it but
11:24:22 what the client has agreed to is you might remember
11:24:25 before the council, there was a change in the guard at
11:24:29 City Council, the last vote was more modification to
11:24:32 the ordinance and one was to allow it to be approved
11:24:37 without going through the public hearing process if one
11:24:40 of the terms was to stipulate to certain hours of
11:24:44 We have agreed to those hours of operation not
11:24:45 withstanding we are obviously not a restaurant, so we
11:24:47 didn't come up here saying let us be open till 2:00 or
11:24:54 Subsequent to the last public hearing two weeks ago --
11:24:57 and there was a little bit of chaos.
11:24:59 I guess that's an understatement toward the latter part
11:25:02 of the hearing.
11:25:02 In any event, we got with staff subsequent to the
11:25:05 hearing and came up with this proposed condition that's
11:25:07 before you right now which I will get into in a second.
11:25:10 We talked to the client after the hearing and he
11:25:13 indicated that a very important part of his business
11:25:17 plan was distilled liquor component.
11:25:20 That would give him the opportunity not to emphasize
11:25:22 the sale of distilled liquors but to have corporate
11:25:26 events, birthdays, special events, things like that,
11:25:29 retirement parties, and apparently in the business of
11:25:32 that element isn't available, it dissuades potential
11:25:38 You have this husband and wife are going into a pretty
11:25:42 difficult area to redevelop and they are putting in
11:25:45 essentially their life savings into this business.
11:25:47 So I think it's incumbent -- I shouldn't say incumbent,
11:25:52 but in this economic climate for government to provide
11:25:55 any kind of advantage they can to ensure the future
11:25:59 viability and success of the small business.
11:26:02 Obviously balancing their interests against any public
11:26:07 interest as well.
11:26:09 So what we provided is a condition that would allow for
11:26:12 the sale of distilled beverages up to 11 p.m., and from
11:26:18 our perspective, here again, already allowed to sell
11:26:21 beer and wine, and imposes limitation 11 p.m., it would
11:26:26 not allow for bar to operate at the property, also you
11:26:30 are going to hear in a second there's pretty
11:26:31 significant support from some of these civic
11:26:34 associations, and just to cut to the chase, we don't
11:26:38 think it really going to have any impact.
11:26:40 We ran it by the city attorney.
11:26:42 They are fine it with.
11:26:43 I ran it by Mrs. Coyle and they are fine it with as
11:26:45 I'm not saying they are supporting it but sufficient
11:26:49 just from an objective standpoint enforceable condition
11:26:51 they are okay it with.
11:26:52 So we would appreciate any support that you give to our
11:26:56 client to make a go of it in a pretty difficult area of
11:27:00 the city.
11:27:00 So if you have any questions, let me know.
11:27:03 And like I mentioned, Mr. Chairman, there are some
11:27:05 proponents here who would like to speak.
11:27:08 Thank you very much.
11:27:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Mulhern?
11:27:16 >>MARY MULHERN: We didn't vote for this on the first
11:27:18 We voted for on-premises consumption of beer and Wayne
11:27:30 only, I believe.
11:27:31 >>> Just to clarify, Mrs. Mulhern, you all voted for
11:27:37 on-premises consumption of beer and wine only, and also
11:27:41 off-premises sales of beer and wine only, and the
11:27:45 sticking part was because these microbreweries,
11:27:48 apparently alcohol content exceeds 14% we had to
11:27:51 characterize it as liquor.
11:27:53 So what we are proposing here is just for sale for
11:27:55 consumption on premises of distilled beverages up to 11
11:27:59 >>MARY MULHERN: You are going back to asking for what
11:28:08 you originally asked for.
11:28:12 >> I'm sorry, we asked for court large last time.
11:28:14 >> Now you are just going to close at 11?
11:28:18 >> No, we are going to stop selling distilled beverages
11:28:20 at 11 p.m.
11:28:21 That's the twist on it.
11:28:23 Thank you.
11:28:23 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't --
11:28:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just for the sake of the record,
11:28:30 Mr. Chairman, if we could have the site plan as it's
11:28:32 been presented by Ms. You Coyle, read note 32 was a as
11:28:38 a result of the hearing, and first reading.
11:28:41 Just so that council knows what is on the table and
11:28:44 what's being proposed.
11:28:44 >> 32 as certified reads alcoholic sales shall be
11:28:51 limited to beer and wine only regardless of alcohol
11:28:54 content for consumption on premises and in sealed
11:28:57 containers, package sales for off-premises consumption,
11:29:00 sales of distilled beverages, quote-unquote, liquor
11:29:03 shall not be permitted.
11:29:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any other council member?
11:29:10 Ms. Capin?
11:29:16 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Mr. Bentley, and maybe Ms. Coyle, on
11:29:19 this, this addition or condition is based on when I see
11:29:29 11 p.m., to cease at 11 p.m., is that based on what we
11:29:33 have on administrative?
11:29:37 Is that what we do administratively?
11:29:41 The hours when you go without coming to council, and a
11:29:45 permit is being brought up.
11:29:47 Ms. Coyle.
11:29:48 >> I have the ordinance provision here.
11:29:51 But here is the deal.
11:29:53 Administratively, if you are a restaurant, okay, you
11:29:55 can sell beer, wine and liquor on premises only till
11:30:00 1:00 p.m. Thursday, Friday and Saturday.
11:30:03 Before 11 am
11:30:05 I'm sorry, 1 a.m.
11:30:10 >>YVONNE CAPIN: All right.
11:30:11 That's what I was asking, the hour for
11:30:13 administratively, 1 a.m.
11:30:16 I didn't know if this was based on that.
11:30:19 The on the thing is, like everything else, how is this
11:30:28 How can any of this be enforced?
11:30:32 >>MARK BENTLEY: Like any condition, and I think it in
11:30:35 the pipe lien to post the conditions.
11:30:37 We would be amenable to imposing an additional
11:30:40 condition that we would post the conditions 11 by 17 on
11:30:43 the doorway or whatever.
11:30:44 But your city attorney told us it's enforceable.
11:30:48 But it is difficult, just like the fertilizer thing.
11:30:51 I don't know how that's going to happen as well, you
11:30:57 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Is officer Miller here?
11:31:00 There you are.
11:31:00 >> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police department.
11:31:05 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I would like to know about enforcement.
11:31:07 >> About 11 p.m. enforcement, we are complaint driven,
11:31:11 so if there's a complaint or issue with, it becomes
11:31:14 known to the police department, we'll go out and
11:31:17 investigate and cite them at that point for being in
11:31:19 violation of the rules.
11:31:22 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
11:31:22 That answers my question.
11:31:23 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Ms. Coyle, I'm new here, so I want to
11:31:31 find out something.
11:31:32 We did spend, I think, over an hour specifically on
11:31:35 this, okay?
11:31:38 Mr. Miranda luckily was not here.
11:31:40 He was spending an hour doing something hopefully fun.
11:31:45 Is it usual after we have gone through it -- and this
11:31:49 is a procedural question -- where someone has not asked
11:31:52 for a continuance in order to come back to staff, to
11:31:56 discuss some of these issues, but come back on second
11:31:59 reading, and now ask for a new first reading?
11:32:03 Because essentially that's what we are doing.
11:32:05 Isn't that it?
11:32:06 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I wouldn't say that it's unusual,
11:32:08 but it isn't unprecedented.
11:32:10 There are times when plans can't be certified that they
11:32:14 have to then continue or someone wants to change a
11:32:16 condition that council directed because they have
11:32:18 talked to their clients, or the applicant has thought
11:32:21 about in the meantime, and we realized that particular
11:32:25 condition that council negotiated with them maybe
11:32:26 doesn't work.
11:32:27 And that's in the zoning or special use context.
11:32:31 It's not usual but it has happened in the past.
11:32:38 >> Is this something more on concrete, the term,
11:32:43 concrete issues like something in terms of the
11:32:45 right-of-way or something, some other issue that goes
11:32:47 to the site plan as opposed to conditions already voted
11:32:50 on and set by council?
11:32:54 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I would say it's varied over the
11:32:55 years which depends on what the issue is.
11:32:57 >> Would you say it's probably unusual that this
11:33:03 Okay, wait, as I said, I'm new hear so I am trying to
11:33:07 get a lay of land here.
11:33:08 So we are back to the same issue we had before which is
11:33:10 this 11 p.m. condition would go with the land.
11:33:13 So whoever runs this particular location will continue
11:33:16 to have that same condition of distilled spirits sold
11:33:21 until 11 p.m.
11:33:22 Is that correct?
11:33:24 >>CATHERINE COYLE: That's correct.
11:33:27 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Also on the procedural meld, we did
11:33:35 discuss this at that time.
11:33:38 There were people here at that time that were against
11:33:41 this sale of distilled spirits, primarily.
11:33:45 Seems like this is a second bite of the apple for the
11:33:47 same argument that we were having before.
11:33:49 Now, have you seen that happen before where comes
11:33:53 before council where there's no opposition at that time
11:33:57 because they figured they were at the first reading,
11:34:00 typically doesn't change from first to second reading
11:34:03 Have you seen that before?
11:34:06 >> I would say that I have seen all matter of
11:34:09 interesting requests at all different times.
11:34:14 I mean, previously, if we are talking purely
11:34:17 procedurally, there was a time many, many years ago
11:34:20 when people could ask for reconsideration of the final
11:34:22 decision that council used to make on quasi-judicial
11:34:27 matters and we used to have third parties come in and
11:34:30 ask you to reconsider an approval on second reading and
11:34:32 next things you know the case is reopened, after the
11:34:35 person applied and got approved, thought they could
11:34:37 walk away and be approved.
11:34:39 So it has -- that would the extreme.
11:34:43 That rule is no longer in place.
11:34:45 We have seen all ranges of different types of requests
11:34:47 at different stages.
11:34:48 >> Mr. Bentley, can I ask you a question?
11:34:53 >>MARK BENTLEY: Sure.
11:34:55 >>MIKE SUAREZ: At the time bee were debut these
11:34:59 changes and obviously based on first reading, why did
11:35:03 you not ask for continuance or offer this as an
11:35:05 amendment at that time or condition at that time?
11:35:09 (Bell sounds)
11:35:10 Well, again it was pretty chaotic but I spoke with
11:35:13 Julia Cole who was representing City Council at that
11:35:15 point in time and there was suggestion of a
11:35:17 continuance, and we had so much dialogue, that some of
11:35:20 the council members, it's my impression indicated let
11:35:24 just get this resolved tonight, we don't want to see
11:35:26 you come back again.
11:35:28 >> And I agree with that, and it's not resolved now.
11:35:30 That's my point.
11:35:31 But here again, with all due respect, my observation
11:35:34 was a couple of the residents, it wasn't necessarily
11:35:36 against distilled beverages, thought it could be a bar.
11:35:42 So with this 11:00 on premises consumption only, I
11:35:49 don't have the record in front of me, Mr. Bentley, so I
11:35:51 don't know if that was specifically the problem.
11:35:53 There were a lot of issues that you said it was
11:35:56 I do feel as if with you coming back in the second bite
11:36:00 of this, you know, for an argument that we had before,
11:36:03 discussion we had before about this issue, I'm not
11:36:06 comfortable with that.
11:36:07 >> But we went carte blanche before.
11:36:14 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I understand that.
11:36:15 And this is not an issue that came up during the first
11:36:18 reading the first time.
11:36:19 Let me clarify this with our counsel, Mr. Shelby.
11:36:23 It was mentioned that this becomes a new first reading?
11:36:27 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That's correct, with the change in
11:36:28 condition it would have to be a change in the site
11:36:30 This would be read as if it were first reading, and it
11:36:34 would next come back at your next regular council
11:36:37 meeting for a second reading and adoption public
11:36:40 That would be during the daytime.
11:36:41 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I have.
11:36:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Montelione, then Mrs. Mulhern.
11:36:48 >>LISA MONTELIONE: And this may be a question for Ms.
11:36:52 If I recall -- and we had a lot of discussion that
11:36:55 evening -- but as I recall, it was council who asked
11:37:00 Mr. Bentley to discuss with his client and come back
11:37:02 with a condition that we could find amenable to
11:37:10 We are the ones who asked for him to come back with
11:37:12 this condition between first and second reading.
11:37:16 That's how I remember it.
11:37:17 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Without looking at the transcript,
11:37:21 what normally happens, and is customary in this case,
11:37:24 is there is an issue that needs to be addressed, what
11:37:26 happens is that council asks the petitioner if the --
11:37:30 if the petitioner would agree to a particular
11:37:34 Assuming that the petitioner agrees to that condition,
11:37:36 or series of conditions, those delineated on the record
11:37:40 and those are to be brought back at second reading
11:37:43 after having been certified by land development.
11:37:49 >> I believe that's exactly the process we went through
11:37:51 and that's how we got to where we are right now.
11:37:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Do you want to clarify?
11:37:57 >>CATHERINE COYLE: If I could, just to reiterate, we
11:38:01 are where we are right now.
11:38:03 The plan is certified with the prohibition on liquor
11:38:07 sales, distilled beverages.
11:38:08 Mr. Bentley is coming forward asking for a modification
11:38:11 of what you directed.
11:38:13 >> But during that two-hour discussion, it wasn't an
11:38:16 hour, it was closer to two.
11:38:20 During that discussion, we as council, one of us, many
11:38:25 of us -- I don't remember who exactly -- it could have
11:38:30 been me -- asked that Mr. Bentley consult with his
11:38:33 client, because there was so much discussion, and come
11:38:37 back with a proposed condition to be added to the site
11:38:41 plan or to revise that condition.
11:38:45 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Well, procedurally, council, the
11:38:47 whole would have had to have voted on that type of
11:38:50 motion and you wouldn't be on second reading today
11:38:52 without a clear direction as to what I could certify.
11:38:56 So if it were vague and we are directing him to go
11:38:58 back, and if you would have accepted that, and council
11:39:02 would of made that full motion to go back and work with
11:39:04 your client, it would have been continued, it wouldn't
11:39:06 have been where a clear direction of make this
11:39:08 condition on the plan so it can be certified on second
11:39:12 So that's where ware right now, is you have a certified
11:39:15 plan with the prohibition of distilled beverages.
11:39:19 He's requesting a modification.
11:39:20 >> It was messy.
11:39:22 I thought we had discussed changing the condition
11:39:24 because there was so much discussion about that
11:39:27 particular issue.
11:39:28 And the other point that I think maybe you can clarify
11:39:34 for me, a lot of the discussion related to alcohol
11:39:36 content at the time was because the brews that are
11:39:42 crafted, what we would consider beer, many of us
11:39:47 looking at it, tasting, would consider it as beer,
11:39:49 actually has a higher alcohol content than what you
11:39:53 would normally find on the shelf on one of major
11:39:57 bottled breweries.
11:40:02 There's another establishment that's actually in the
11:40:05 county that I know this is true because they have a
11:40:09 full alcohol license, and they sell -- I don't believe
11:40:13 they carry them on the shelves or in the establishment,
11:40:18 bottles of whiskey or any kind of alcohol, of distilled
11:40:26 spirit nature.
11:40:27 They have the full license only because the beer
11:40:30 products that they sell have by state law or by local
11:40:34 provisions a higher alcoholic content.
11:40:38 So that's why they have the full license, they don't
11:40:43 sell any -- they don't even have it in their shop.
11:40:46 But they have to have that full license because of the
11:40:50 alcoholic content of the beer they sell.
11:40:54 >>> It is correct, our classifications limit beer and
11:40:57 wine sales to 14% by volume.
11:41:01 Also in the state law, specifically for wine, they are
11:41:04 capped at a certain percentage as well, under a certain
11:41:07 type of license.
11:41:08 And that was the issue with you that provision.
11:41:10 I do believe that Mr. Bentley can clarify, the
11:41:14 distilled spirits that he's speaking of is in addition
11:41:17 to even a higher content beer and wine.
11:41:19 But he wants the opportunity to have a mixed drink as
11:41:23 well as higher content beer and wine.
11:41:27 >> And that's a different discussion than I recall
11:41:29 having that night.
11:41:30 >> I believe so.
11:41:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Cohen, then Mrs. Mulhern.
11:41:37 >>HARRY COHEN: I don't agree with the characterization
11:41:40 of discussion as having been chaotic.
11:41:43 I felt the discussion was thorough.
11:41:45 And I thought where we moved that night was where
11:41:51 council wanted to go.
11:41:52 And I agree with what Mr. Suarez said earlier.
11:41:57 It seems to me that this is taking a second bite at an
11:42:01 apple where many of the people that spoke had no idea
11:42:05 that that bite was going to be offered again.
11:42:07 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
11:42:13 Yes, I think what I wanted to say first of all, Mrs.
11:42:17 Montelione, I think they made it clear but they didn't
11:42:20 agree to this.
11:42:21 What we agreed to is on the site plan, and in the
11:42:26 ordinance that's hear for us to consider for adoption.
11:42:34 This isn't just a second bite.
11:42:36 Well, this will be the second out of three bites, at
11:42:38 least, that you get.
11:42:40 And my experience, these types of things may come up,
11:42:46 but the petitioner had the option of continuing, and
11:42:49 that was part of our discussion, and instead agreed to
11:42:57 what we have in front of us without this addition.
11:42:59 So I just want to say to council, particularly to
11:43:04 Councilman Suarez, very good questions, once we
11:43:12 entertain this type of thing, then it continues.
11:43:16 So whether it's typical or not has to do with how we
11:43:21 treat these applications.
11:43:23 So I just agree with both you and Mr. Cohen.
11:43:26 And I think we should hear from the public.
11:43:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, I am going to go to Ms. Capin
11:43:33 and then ask the clerk to read the record and we'll
11:43:35 find out if it was chaotic and thorough, or was it
11:43:38 thorough and chaotic?
11:43:42 >>YVONNE CAPIN: It was thorough.
11:43:43 But I do recall the petitioner saying at the time that
11:43:49 they agreed to the conditions, keep in mind that they
11:43:56 would be coming back at a later date asking for this
11:44:03 very -- not this very provision, but to be able to
11:44:07 serve cocktails or alcoholic beverage.
11:44:10 That was said and you will hear in the report.
11:44:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Clerk, would you read the
11:44:19 >>> Yes, there was a motion made by Suarez, seconded by
11:44:22 Montelione, that council stipulate and the petitioner
11:44:28 consents to a further condition being placed on the
11:44:31 site plan prohibiting the sale of distilled spirits on
11:44:35 the subject site for consumption on or off the
11:44:42 Motion carried unanimously.
11:44:46 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Can I finish my thought?
11:44:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes, you can.
11:44:50 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
11:44:50 That was said.
11:44:51 And when you la at the record, it was said, that they
11:44:55 agreed that they would come back.
11:44:59 They just didn't think that it would be this soon.
11:45:02 [ Laughter ]
11:45:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Suarez wanted the floor.
11:45:10 All right, Mr. Bentley.
11:45:13 >> Seems to me that mentioned the second or third bite
11:45:17 of the apple that they are concerned about the last
11:45:19 hearing being deprived of due process and not having
11:45:22 knowledge of our proposal.
11:45:24 What the client is amenable to do, we will renotice the
11:45:27 hearing and set it for July whatever, and have a new
11:45:30 hearing and raise this issue so that the public has an
11:45:32 opportunity to participate.
11:45:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me say this.
11:45:37 I am not opposed to that.
11:45:41 I have never set sat in any hearing where we have
11:45:44 avoided or have the intent to avoid anyone in the
11:45:47 public not coming forward.
11:45:50 Never in all the years of service.
11:45:53 And I don't think this council is in that direction
11:45:57 But is this somewhat ambiguous?
11:46:03 I am going to need some direction here to specify, not
11:46:07 in July, but the first in August.
11:46:10 When you come back in July, this council won't have
11:46:14 enough life to handle what they have on the agenda.
11:46:16 Yes, sir?
11:46:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I just want to say for the record,
11:46:22 council, that we talked about bites at the apple.
11:46:26 And as Ms. Coyle did tell you, things like this do
11:46:31 This is -- because council allows two public hearings
11:46:35 on such issues, council does have the opportunity to
11:46:39 take new evidence and to look at competent, substantial
11:46:43 evidence upon which bases its decision.
11:46:46 So that being said, if it's Mr. Bentley's request to
11:46:52 have council consider this request, it is appropriate
11:46:55 for him to do so.
11:46:56 And it would be inappropriate for council to not allow
11:47:00 him to do so.
11:47:01 That being said, the other thing is, if goes back to
11:47:05 first reading, there is an opportunity for second
11:47:09 reading and adoption public hearing which would be
11:47:13 announced today.
11:47:14 He is offering if council wishes to have that at his
11:47:17 expense to be renoticed.
11:47:19 If that's his condition and council agrees, that is an
11:47:22 option, too.
11:47:23 And that being said, council, it is ultimately
11:47:28 Mr. Bentley's decision how he wishes to proceed on this
11:47:31 if he wishes council to take action and what that
11:47:34 action would be.
11:47:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me say this.
11:47:37 Somehow this got to second reading.
11:47:39 That means somehow got four votes.
11:47:41 If not it wouldn't be here.
11:47:43 So I am just making that observation.
11:47:47 So, I mean, it got to be at your expense.
11:47:54 So please say that.
11:47:54 >> What we want to do at our expense is renotice the
11:47:58 second public hearing and we can even do it at
11:48:00 nighttime so the public has more opportunity to be
11:48:02 involved in the process.
11:48:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We spent 30 minutes on a fertilizer
11:48:11 We spent 30 minutes on who is right and who is wrong.
11:48:14 I don't know who is right or who is wrong but I want to
11:48:17 clear it.
11:48:17 So there's nothing wrong with putting it on second
11:48:20 reading, have the first reading today, unless there's
11:48:23 some legal activity why you can't have the first
11:48:27 The public usually speaks on the second hearing.
11:48:29 And I'm not too much concerned about first bite, second
11:48:33 I want to get it right.
11:48:34 For or against.
11:48:35 >>MARK BENTLEY: If anyone did it wrong it's us because
11:48:41 we reevaluated what City Council said during the
11:48:44 intervening two weeks.
11:48:46 So the City Council is dead on.
11:48:47 I want to get that on the table.
11:48:49 We analyzed and came back to you.
11:48:51 That's all.
11:48:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Suarez?
11:48:54 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Mr. Chair, in terms of this, we would
11:48:57 have to have a motion to include this, and then have a
11:49:03 second and be able to vote on this for it to go forward
11:49:06 to the new second reading.
11:49:08 Is that correct?
11:49:09 If we do not get a second on this particular motion --
11:49:16 I not a motion yet, Mr. Reddick.
11:49:18 But if we don't get a second, it --
11:49:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It dies before I do [ Laughter ]
11:49:26 >> But the second reading, do we still go forward with
11:49:29 second reading as we had done on first reading?
11:49:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If this dies on -- ask that question
11:49:40 >>MIKE SUAREZ: If this motion dies for lack of a
11:49:43 second, do we still go to second reading as proposed
11:49:48 from first reading?
11:49:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If first reading dies, how can it go
11:49:52 to a second?
11:49:54 >>MIKE SUAREZ: First reading has already been done.
11:49:56 So this is an amendment --
11:49:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You are amending.
11:49:59 >>MIKE SUAREZ: And we are resetting the clock.
11:50:01 So if we are resetting the clock with this, if there's
11:50:04 no second, don't we still -- we can still approve the
11:50:07 ordinance now, because this is the second reading.
11:50:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's right.
11:50:12 You can approve this ordinance that's here now without
11:50:14 going back to first reading if that motion that
11:50:17 somebody is going to make, I guess, is brought up and
11:50:20 somebody is going to have to second it to come back to
11:50:22 first reading. If that dies, then this is on the
11:50:31 Mrs. Montelione?
11:50:32 Ms. Mulhern?
11:50:34 >>MARY MULHERN: I was going to say this is not alive
11:50:36 Someone has to bring it alive with a motion.
11:50:39 So what we have on our agenda is the second reading.
11:50:41 >>MARTIN SHELBY: My suggestion would be, council,
11:50:48 because you have this proposal in front of you, it is
11:50:50 Mr. Bentley's request.
11:50:53 Mr. Bentley, is it your request that council take
11:50:55 action on this proposal today before they move forward?
11:51:01 You are asking them to approve it.
11:51:03 >> First reading.
11:51:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You are asking them to approve this
11:51:07 amendment and by so doing would require it to go back
11:51:10 to first reading.
11:51:11 >>MARK BENTLEY: That's correct.
11:51:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: To change from the original item
11:51:14 that was presented at the time was presented.
11:51:19 It's a substantial change.
11:51:20 Therefore it has to go back to first reading.
11:51:23 >>MARTIN SHELBY: So a motion to address this issue
11:51:25 would be in order.
11:51:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Before I do that I have to ask the
11:51:29 public if they have any objection to it going back to
11:51:32 first reading.
11:51:32 That's what it's about right now in the public sector.
11:51:35 Does anyone care to object about this going back to
11:51:38 first reading?
11:51:42 I need name, address, yes or no.
11:51:44 >> Gary Elsworth, Seminole Heights civic association.
11:51:47 We will follow whatever path the petitioner wants to
11:51:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
11:51:52 >> Susan Long, speaking for Southeast Seminole Heights.
11:52:01 We support the petitioner's amendment.
11:52:04 >> Ingrid Smith, 5605 North Suwannee Avenue, Seminole
11:52:10 Heights, and we support the petitioner.
11:52:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
11:52:15 Now we have support for the item going back to first
11:52:19 reading, as I understand it.
11:52:20 Am I correct?
11:52:23 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, sir.
11:52:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Now I need a council member to start
11:52:26 that process.
11:52:27 Mrs. Montelione.
11:52:27 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I move that we accept the
11:52:30 conditions that was presented to us by Mr. Bentley and
11:52:33 the applicant that states alcoholic beverage sales
11:52:36 include beer, wine and distilled spirits regardless of
11:52:40 could alcoholic content beer and wine may be sold for
11:52:43 off premises consumption, sales of distilled spirits
11:52:46 limited to on premises couples and cease by 11 p.m.
11:52:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Seconded by Mrs. Capin.
11:52:54 This is only -- I don't know what's on this ordinance,
11:52:57 but on rescinding this motion going back to first
11:53:00 reading with the amendment that Ms. Montelione read on
11:53:04 the record.
11:53:05 I have a motion by Mrs. Montelione.
11:53:06 I have a second by Mrs. Capin.
11:53:08 Further discussion by council members?
11:53:09 All in favor of motion please indicate by saying aye.
11:53:13 Opposed, nay.
11:53:15 Motion passes 4 to 3.
11:53:19 Roll call vote.
11:53:20 >>MIKE SUAREZ: No.
11:53:23 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes.
11:53:25 >>FRANK REDDICK: Yes.
11:53:27 >>MARY MULHERN: No.
11:53:29 >>HARRY COHEN: No.
11:53:32 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Yes.
11:53:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I voted yes so it's 4 to 3.
11:53:37 Nobody trust it is chairman.
11:53:38 See that?
11:53:39 [ Laughter ]
11:53:41 >>THE CLERK: The motion passes with Suarez --
11:53:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It will come back.
11:53:48 Please for the record.
11:53:49 >> Second reading will be held --
11:53:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry.
11:53:52 If we can have it done now title read for first
11:53:56 reading, and we will pass on first reading with that
11:53:59 amendment when becomes part of the motion.
11:54:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I need a new motion to put this back
11:54:08 now, this hearing is first reading and second reading
11:54:11 is coming whenever.
11:54:13 Mrs. Montelione.
11:54:14 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I move an ordinance for first
11:54:18 >> I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman.
11:54:19 Two points.
11:54:21 I'm sorry to interrupt.
11:54:22 Number one is the issue regarding the first reading.
11:54:27 Was that resolved by council with regard to when that
11:54:30 was to be set and when that was to be noticed?
11:54:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It was to be noticed and paid for by
11:54:40 Bentley or his firm or his partners or his client or
11:54:43 somebody, and that's set for one time.
11:54:47 I believe I said the first part of August.
11:54:49 In July we have two weeks off.
11:54:54 I don't think I will be here for a little while.
11:54:56 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The other question, did you want that
11:54:59 Normally you set your first readings for the night
11:55:02 meeting which would be August 18 -- I'm sorry.
11:55:07 This is first reading.
11:55:09 Okay, I stand corrected.
11:55:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Give me a date, please.
11:55:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: How much time do we need for this?
11:55:28 July night meeting?
11:55:31 >> I believe July 14th is the regular second
11:55:34 meeting for today's hearing.
11:55:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Will the council accept July
11:55:38 Let me tell you that I will not be here July 14th.
11:55:46 So now you are down to 3-3 as I count votes.
11:55:51 I really don't know if I will be here.
11:55:57 I just can't say I'll be here.
11:55:59 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I will not be here on the 21st of
11:56:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And it's not by my doing.
11:56:11 I said August earlier.
11:56:12 >>> There is an evening meeting on the 18th of
11:56:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 18th of August I should be back.
11:56:33 I have got five minutes.
11:56:35 I have three minutes before 12:00.
11:56:37 I have done a terrible job.
11:56:56 >>MARK BENTLEY: So we have August, Mr. Chairman?
11:57:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: August 18th.
11:57:02 >>MARK BENTLEY: That's fine.
11:57:03 >> (off microphone).
11:57:12 >> August 18th, night meeting, 6:00 p.m.
11:57:16 Is that acceptable to you?
11:57:18 >>MARK BENTLEY: Yes, sir.
11:57:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I need a motion by council to 6 p.m.
11:57:24 the first item on the agenda.
11:57:26 Motion by Mrs. Capin, second by Mrs. Montelione.
11:57:31 (Motion carried)
11:57:32 Thank you for attending.
11:57:33 Item number 91.
11:57:34 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry, sir. If we could have a
11:57:37 motion to close, and then we can do the reading.
11:57:41 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I move to close.
11:57:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second by Mrs. Mulhern.
11:57:46 Motion to close.
11:57:47 I heard one Aye.
11:57:51 Got it.
11:57:51 Motion passes.
11:57:52 The item is closed.
11:57:53 Now make that same motion again to have it August
11:57:56 18th at 6:00, first item on the agenda.
11:58:01 I want that done and I want it done now.
11:58:06 I'm going to read it by title.
11:58:07 >> I move an ordinance for first reading set for August
11:58:12 18th at 6:00 p.m., an ordinance for special use
11:58:19 permit for alcoholic beverage sales, making lawful the
11:58:23 sale of beverages regardless of alcoholic content beer
11:58:26 wine and liquor for consumption on premises and in
11:58:29 sealed containers for consumption off premises on that
11:58:32 certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 4500
11:58:35 north Nebraska Avenue, Tampa, Florida as more
11:58:36 particularly described in section 2 hereof providing
11:58:39 for repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
11:58:42 effective date, with the addition of the amendment to
11:58:45 the site plan that was provided to us today by
11:58:48 Mr. Bentley.
11:58:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mrs. Montelione
11:58:54 with the amendments to it.
11:58:56 I have a second by Ms. Capin.
11:58:59 I have a discussion between two legal eagles.
11:59:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, you do, and I apologize,
11:59:05 Mr. Chairman.
11:59:05 The ordinance is being set, the date you set is for
11:59:08 second reading.
11:59:08 The first read is taking place today.
11:59:11 Thank you.
11:59:11 Just want to clarify that.
11:59:13 Thank you, Mr. Territo.
11:59:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: For second reading and adoption
11:59:18 We have a motion on the floor by Mrs. Montelione,
11:59:21 second by Mrs. Capin.
11:59:23 All in favor indicate by saying Aye.
11:59:25 Opposed, nay.
11:59:27 The Ayes have it unanimously.
11:59:28 It is now 12:00.
11:59:29 I'm sorry, but we are going to take a break until 1:30.
11:59:31 (A recess was taken from 12:00 to 1:30 p.m.)
11:59:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: City council is called to order.
13:38:39 Roll call.
13:38:39 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Here.
13:38:41 >>FRANK REDDICK: Here.
13:38:42 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
13:38:43 >>HARRY COHEN: Here.
13:38:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
13:38:47 We are on item number 91.
13:38:50 Since there's been a little shift between an hour and a
13:38:52 half or so, I am going to ask that this is a
13:38:56 quasi-judicial part of the agenda, so I am going to ask
13:39:00 the clerk if anyone has not been sworn in to get sworn
13:39:02 in now.
13:39:04 Anyone who has not been sworn in who is going to speak,
13:39:06 get sworn in now.
13:39:08 (Oath administered by Clerk).
13:39:14 >> Then I assume those who are here who did not raise
13:39:18 your hand are either were sworn earlier or not going to
13:39:22 All right.
13:39:23 Item number 91.
13:39:29 Is petitioner here?
13:39:35 Would he care to say anything?
13:39:38 The public.
13:39:39 Anyone in the public care to speak on item 91?
13:39:44 I see no one.
13:39:45 I need a motion.
13:39:46 >> Move to close the item.
13:39:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second by Mr. Suarez.
13:39:55 (Motion carried)
13:39:58 Ms. Capin works you take number 91?
13:40:01 Okay, Mr. Suarez.
13:40:02 >> I move to adopt the following ordinance upon second
13:40:04 reading, an ordinance rezoning property in the general
13:40:07 vicinity of 2616 South MacDill Avenue and 3008 west
13:40:14 Barcelona street in the city of Tampa, Florida more
13:40:17 particularly described in section 1 from zoning
13:40:20 district classification PD planned development,
13:40:22 restaurant, retail, principal parking-commercial, to
13:40:25 PD, planned development, restaurant, retail, principal
13:40:28 parking-commercial, providing an effective date.
13:40:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Suarez, a
13:40:34 second by Mr. Reddick.
13:40:35 Vote and record.
13:40:36 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Montelione being
13:40:48 absent at vote.
13:40:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We go now to item number 92.
13:40:55 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land Development Coordination.
13:40:57 Item number 92 is the alcoholic beverage request that
13:41:00 runs with the zoning.
13:41:02 I did not have the report from TPD at the time of the
13:41:05 last hearing.
13:41:05 I do have it now.
13:41:06 There is no objection but I did want to provide that
13:41:08 for the record.
13:41:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay
13:41:13 The makes the record whole for that section.
13:41:16 Does anyone in the audience care to speak on item
13:41:18 number 92?
13:41:19 One more time, anyone care to speak on item number 92?
13:41:26 I see no one.
13:41:28 >> I move to close.
13:41:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mr. Suarez, second by Mrs.
13:41:35 The Ayes have it unanimously.
13:41:38 >>YVONNE CAPIN: An ordinance being presented for second
13:41:40 reading and adoption.
13:41:40 An ordinance repealing ordinance number 2010-172
13:41:45 approving a special use permit S-2 for alcoholic
13:41:47 beverage sales, small venue and making lawful the sale
13:41:51 of beverages containing alcohol regardless of alcoholic
13:41:53 content beer, wine, liquor, 4(COP) for consumption on
13:41:58 premises and in sealed containers for consumption off
13:42:00 premises on that certain lot, plot or tract of land
13:42:05 located at 2616 South MacDill Avenue and 3008 west
13:42:11 Barcelona street, Tampa, Florida as more particularly
13:42:13 described in section 3 hereof providing for repeal of
13:42:17 all ordinances in conflict, providing an effective
13:42:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mrs. Capin,
13:42:22 second by Mrs. Mulhern.
13:42:24 Vote and record.
13:42:25 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Montelione being
13:42:38 absent at vote.
13:42:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item number 93.
13:42:46 Is petitioner here?
13:42:48 Would you care to speak?
13:42:49 >> Michael Sorono representing the petitioner if
13:42:55 there's any questions.
13:42:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
13:42:57 Anyone in the audience care to speak on item number 93?
13:43:01 I see no one.
13:43:03 Need a motion to close.
13:43:06 Motion by Mr. Reddick, second by Mr. Suarez to close.
13:43:09 All in favor?
13:43:10 Opposed nay?
13:43:11 The ayes have it unanimously.
13:43:13 Mr. Cohen, would you take number 93?
13:43:15 >> An ordinance being presented for second reading and
13:43:18 adoption, an ordinance rezoning property in the general
13:43:21 vicinity of 4333 west Hillsborough Avenue in the city
13:43:24 of Tampa, Florida and more particularly described in
13:43:26 section 1 from zoning district classifications RS-50
13:43:30 residential single-family and CI commercial intensive
13:43:34 to CI commercial intensive, providing an effective
13:43:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Cohen.
13:43:39 I have a second by Mr. Suarez.
13:43:43 Vote and record.
13:43:51 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Montelione being
13:43:54 absent at vote.
13:43:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item number 94.
13:44:01 Is petitioner here?
13:44:05 Anyone in the audience care to speak on this subject
13:44:07 Item number 94.
13:44:09 Yes, ma'am.
13:44:09 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land development.
13:44:11 The petitioner is not here.
13:44:13 He was here this morning.
13:44:14 Descend me an e-mail saying they did have to leave the
13:44:17 public hearing but I don't believe there's any
13:44:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
13:44:21 One more time.
13:44:22 Anyone care to speak on item number 94?
13:44:24 I see no one.
13:44:25 I need a motion to close.
13:44:29 Motion by Mrs. Capin, second by Mrs. Mulhern to close.
13:44:33 The Ayes have it unanimously.
13:44:35 Mrs. Montelione, would you kindly take number 94?
13:44:39 >>LISA MONTELIONE: 94.
13:44:43 I present -- I'm sorry.
13:44:45 I present an ordinance for second reading and adoption,
13:44:48 an ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity
13:44:51 of 3403 West Gandy Boulevard in the city of Tampa,
13:44:54 Florida and more particularly described in section 1
13:44:56 from zoning district classifications PD planned
13:44:59 development, residential, single-family attached, to
13:45:02 CI, commercial intensive, providing an effective date.
13:45:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mrs. Month Lon,
13:45:08 seconded by Mr. Cohen.
13:45:09 Vote and record.
13:45:15 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
13:45:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item number 95.
13:45:20 Anyone here to speak on 95?
13:45:22 Is petitioner here?
13:45:24 Anyone in the audience care to speak on number 95?
13:45:33 I see no one.
13:45:34 Need a motion to close.
13:45:35 Motion made by Mr. Suarez, second by Mr. Reddick.
13:45:40 All in favor indicate by saying Aye.
13:45:42 Opposed, nay.
13:45:43 The ayes have it unanimously.
13:45:45 Mr. Cohen, would you take 95, please?
13:45:47 >>HARRY COHEN: I move an ordinance presented for second
13:45:50 reading and adoption, an ordinance rezoning property in
13:45:52 the general vicinity of 3202 and 3204 west Palmira
13:45:57 Avenue in the city of Tampa, Florida and more
13:45:59 particularly described in section 1 from zoning
13:46:01 district classifications RM-16 residential multifamily
13:46:04 to RS-50 residential single-family providing an
13:46:07 effective date.
13:46:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Cohen, I have
13:46:11 a second by Ms. Mulhern.
13:46:14 All in favor of the motion indicate by saying Aye
13:46:19 Roll call.
13:46:20 Vote and record.
13:46:20 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
13:46:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Now I need a motion to open 96
13:46:35 through 106.
13:46:37 Motion by Mrs. Montelione, second by Mrs. Mulhern.
13:46:41 All in favor?
13:46:42 The Ayes have it unanimously.
13:46:44 These are number 96 is one with city involvement.
13:46:50 Is Ms. Palus in?
13:46:53 >>KAREN PALUS: Parks and Recreation Department
13:47:01 director, and I hope I am here to share with you some
13:47:04 good news in regards to the projects that we have open,
13:47:10 operational and where we are headed, in regards to
13:47:13 what's currently available in our facilities for summer
13:47:15 seasonal swim, we do have nine facilities open
13:47:19 throughout the city we have two in the south, three in
13:47:21 the north, two in the wrest and two in the east and
13:47:25 those various, depending on those sites in the
13:47:28 community in which they serve so they are available.
13:47:30 The information is available on our Web site, and the
13:47:33 phone number for those particular locations.
13:47:35 So as far as the facility you were interested in what's
13:47:37 happen open, we do have nine throughout the city, and
13:47:43 all of the information is out there regarding all of
13:47:46 our sites.
13:47:47 That's what's happening as far as current operations.
13:47:52 In regards to -- I don't know what that was.
13:48:00 >> I don't know but it wasn't us.
13:48:01 >> Is there a buzzer up here?
13:48:04 I wanted to share with you where we are at, where we
13:48:07 are headed with our pools.
13:48:08 As many of you are aware, we do have some significant
13:48:11 issues with facilities overall in the city.
13:48:14 We have been working towards our last CIT funding
13:48:19 sources trying to make ADA improvements, trying to make
13:48:22 accessibility areas, looking at improvements that
13:48:24 needed to be made.
13:48:25 However, our facilities had some major significant
13:48:31 We had a lot of changes that happened in the codes, the
13:48:33 Department of Health code, as well as additional
13:48:37 requirements with ADA and such, and again making sure
13:48:41 that the program is appropriate for those locations.
13:48:44 So we embarked on a city-wide aquatic study to really
13:48:47 look at all of our 13 pools that are out there, what's
13:48:50 available, where our opportunities, what are the
13:48:54 conditions of the facilities currently, what are the
13:48:56 health code challenges with those locations, are they
13:49:00 still the right locations and the right type of
13:49:02 What is the community interested in as far as the type
13:49:04 of facility and such.
13:49:06 We are working on that currently.
13:49:08 But construction administration, the report is going to
13:49:11 cover all those things I talked about, the pool
13:49:15 conditions and such.
13:49:16 So we should be expecting that report based on my
13:49:18 conversation with construction administration.
13:49:20 They are expecting that full report by the end of July.
13:49:22 So we'll have some information to really share overall
13:49:25 where we are at, what their recommendations would be
13:49:28 for us, so that we are able to move forward with the
13:49:31 best information possible to make the best decisions
13:49:34 for our city-wide aquatics in the facilities and
13:49:38 location that we need to focus on. In regard to some
13:49:41 specific facilities overall, Cuscaden has some things
13:49:49 with regard to the structural issues that came out of
13:49:51 that particular facility.
13:49:53 Construction administration has been very involved with
13:49:55 that, working through that with the consultant to
13:49:57 assess that.
13:49:58 As you all know, that's a historic pool there.
13:50:01 Were significant repairs done to that awhile back.
13:50:04 It was opened.
13:50:05 However, when you have old facilities and old
13:50:08 structures, you can continue to have issues.
13:50:10 And so we had further issues that we needed to go back
13:50:13 in and really assess what's there.
13:50:15 So they are working towards that to have the best
13:50:18 information possible so we can make the best
13:50:20 recommendation with that site as well.
13:50:23 They confirmed that they'll have that by mid July, so
13:50:26 we should have that very, very soon and look forward to
13:50:28 having that so we can have further dialogue in regards
13:50:30 to that.
13:50:31 LeRoy Jenkins school that's currently closed as well,
13:50:35 that one, we worked with the community on the
13:50:37 feasibility study for the overall recreational
13:50:39 improvements there.
13:50:40 However, right now, they are in the design phase.
13:50:43 We have two design concepts that were presented in the
13:50:45 community just recently, and there's further dialogue
13:50:49 and communications going out in the community to get
13:50:51 back information on what they would like to see, what
13:50:54 their expectations are as the pool design and what they
13:50:57 would like to move forward with. We are gathering that
13:51:00 I will take an opportunity now to plug that from the
13:51:04 surrounding neighborhoods really want your input and
13:51:06 feedback on those designs.
13:51:07 They are available on our Web site to look at.
13:51:09 We are sending the information out at different
13:51:13 locations and sites.
13:51:14 So that is moving forward to have a design to look
13:51:17 forward to.
13:51:18 As far as the facility regarding Williams, that
13:51:22 facility, to go back through that location, that's a
13:51:28 bigger issue than just the pool issue.
13:51:29 I have had several conversations awhile back with Mr.
13:51:33 Kinsey and the folks in the community with regards to
13:51:36 what the issues are.
13:51:38 He mentioned the drainage issues and such.
13:51:39 There's some significant infrastructure issues at that
13:51:42 location that we needed to assess and understand.
13:51:46 There's a current survey going on right now.
13:51:48 We have a consultant on board that's evaluating that.
13:51:51 We also have some property boundary issues we needed to
13:51:54 So that is underway as well.
13:51:56 Once that information is forwarded back to us from the
13:52:00 consultant, we'll start to meet with the community.
13:52:02 It is a master planning process for the entire site.
13:52:05 There was a lot of things that the community has been
13:52:07 interested in.
13:52:08 Many of you may recall this came out of conversations
13:52:10 with Councilman Gwendolyn Miller at the time in regards
13:52:14 to expansion of Williams facility there, the activity
13:52:19 To expand that facility to look at the pool and the
13:52:21 improvements to the pool and to understand the
13:52:22 infrastructure we needed to do that holistically and
13:52:26 that's what we have been moving forward with, exactly
13:52:28 as I had shared with Mr. Kinsey.
13:52:31 The funding came out of that Zack Street $1 million as
13:52:34 I had shared with him before.
13:52:36 So that is moving forward.
13:52:37 I know some of those things don't move as fast as folks
13:52:39 would like.
13:52:40 But when you are dealing with the amount of projects we
13:52:41 are dealing with and such and the importance of getting
13:52:45 the right information and the best information
13:52:47 available from those consultants, that's why we do take
13:52:49 the time to make sure we do act with due diligence.
13:52:52 So we will be coming to the community very soon.
13:52:54 They had their meeting last week with the consultant
13:52:56 on-site with the staff and with construction
13:52:58 administration, so that will be moving forward then to
13:53:01 the community as far as bringing them together like we
13:53:03 do with all of our facilities, to have them weigh in,
13:53:07 give us their ideas, their input, tell us what's most
13:53:10 important to them, make sure that the facilities and
13:53:13 the accommodations that we are trying to provide are
13:53:16 the best things for what that neighborhood wants and
13:53:18 And so we will be going through that process, and we
13:53:22 will have the opportunity to give input, help with that
13:53:24 design process, and be able to address just the issues
13:53:27 that Mr. Kinsey spoke about earlier today.
13:53:31 The other issue with Williams is where does the money
13:53:34 come from for the opportunity to repair the overall
13:53:37 facilities and look at that?
13:53:39 As we had addressed with the communities previously as
13:53:42 well as council member Miller was that we would plan
13:53:46 for that in the next round of C.I.T., and that's
13:53:49 exactly what we have done.
13:53:50 We have provided that in our list of projects, and now
13:53:53 that presentation with CIT is in one of our
13:53:56 neighborhood listings, that particular project at that
13:53:58 So we are right on track where we thought we would be
13:54:02 able to fund for that location, based on what comes out
13:54:06 of the CIT opportunities.
13:54:10 That is really where we are at.
13:54:12 Pool-wise, we have -- the feasibility study is critical
13:54:19 for us.
13:54:19 We really need to figure out what we have out there,
13:54:22 the conditions, and really what their recommendations
13:54:24 are for us to move forward.
13:54:25 So I hope you all give us the opportunity to get that
13:54:28 information and get a chance to review that thoroughly,
13:54:31 and be willing to share that with each and every one of
13:54:34 you if you would like to hear more.
13:54:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Council member, anyone wish to speak
13:54:42 about it now?
13:54:45 >> No.
13:54:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All right, Mr. Reddick?
13:54:48 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
13:54:52 Ms. Palus, when I look through the community needs and
13:54:59 recommendation package, and I see where -- I am going
13:55:10 to say YM Ybor in reference to Cuscaden pool, pointing
13:55:18 to your report, and this was presented to us recently,
13:55:25 dated July, according to your report, you state that a
13:55:31 feasibility study report would be May 2011, and it's
13:55:38 just June 9th, and today you are saying July.
13:55:48 I want to know why the report dated June 9th
13:55:53 reflects that that report for that particular pool was
13:55:56 scheduled to be ready and today you say July.
13:56:01 That's the first question.
13:56:04 The second question is, the problem I have is this.
13:56:14 I look at the communication -- and I am going to talk
13:56:19 about Williams park, I want to talk about Cuscaden
13:56:23 I look at the different e-mails, the communication
13:56:27 between you and Cuscaden pool, and neighborhood
13:56:32 association, and as I read their communication from you
13:56:38 and some members of your staff, they was almost to the
13:56:46 point of begging for information.
13:56:51 Promises was made to them that somebody was going to
13:56:53 attend the neighborhood association meeting.
13:56:55 They didn't show up.
13:56:58 These were e-mails that someone was supposed to give
13:57:01 them an update about the pool.
13:57:04 And as you read through -- and this is back ever since
13:57:14 And these people are frustrated out there, because they
13:57:18 have been waiting on a feasibility report, will be
13:57:24 getting this report, and they haven't gotten it.
13:57:27 And they continue to ask for this information.
13:57:33 It's the same pattern that no one has provided -- and
13:57:40 e-mail, any chance, update of the pool that you can
13:57:44 share this evening in the Ybor meeting.
13:57:49 This is even dated January 5th, 2011.
13:57:54 They still are inquiring.
13:57:57 Now, somewhere, there's a lot of -- lack of
13:58:02 And that's why the neighborhood is frustrated with the
13:58:08 Parks and Recreation Department because this
13:58:09 information has not been shared with them.
13:58:14 Now, let me just state the Williams park pool, when the
13:58:25 pool first started having some problems, we wore were
13:58:28 contacting the city, and concerned about repairs.
13:58:33 And I listened to your presentation just now, and there
13:58:39 seemed to be where you mixed in the end the pool and oh
13:58:46 other repairs or renovations at the park.
13:58:49 Now, as of now, there's a nonprofit neighborhood group
13:58:55 came out there and repaired the roof as stated earlier,
13:58:59 Mr. Kinsey.
13:59:01 The repair to the restroom, they repaired the weight
13:59:05 room, where they have the kids, and the thing that's
13:59:10 lacking now is there's no repair, anything been done
13:59:15 pertaining to the pool.
13:59:17 Now, if I look at the communication between your
13:59:21 office, someone with you, we have seen where figures
13:59:30 saying that $125,000 is going to be utilize dollars for
13:59:36 a study.
13:59:37 We see documentation here that is saying it's going to
13:59:44 cost 750,000 to 100 to $1 million.
13:59:49 Then when I go back and read this report again -- this
13:59:57 is community needs and recommendation -- report that we
14:00:01 received, there still seemed to be a lot of uncertainty
14:00:06 about what is going to happen with Williams park pool.
14:00:12 So I'm at the point -- and my neighbors are at the
14:00:21 point -- that it should have never gotten to this
14:00:24 point, number one.
14:00:30 They have been dealing with this for over three years
14:00:35 We have communications from you and others saying that
14:00:39 you are looking at the CIT funds, and CRA, other funds,
14:00:47 and none of these things was accomplished.
14:00:49 So not to prolong this matter, I just want to say, has
14:00:57 any effort been made, any attempt been made, to secure
14:01:06 funding for these pools?
14:01:08 And the sad part, these pools are in my district and
14:01:19 these kids are not having the same opportunity to be in
14:01:20 the pool, and I think one other thing is that we look
14:01:25 at some of the e-mail.
14:01:31 You know, you recommend to us, to the neighborhood,
14:01:33 that we have something like a splash, something like a
14:01:39 When I first saw it, I thought a water hole where they
14:01:45 can stay wet, stay cool.
14:01:47 So whatever that splash, it's cheaper, you don't have
14:01:51 to have no staff out there, and it doesn't need to be
14:01:55 So if it's not a safety issue, then it must be a water
14:02:03 hole where you just wet people down, because in the it
14:02:07 in the report saying about a splash.
14:02:09 So the kids can get wet.
14:02:14 That's frustrating.
14:02:15 But here is my point.
14:02:16 And we in my neighborhood have had been totally
14:02:34 neglected because we try to work with the city to get
14:02:42 those repairs done, and we never -- and we have a
14:02:50 person designated by the neighborhood association.
14:02:52 That person is Mr. Sam Kensey to work with the city.
14:02:56 And I know you and Sam had a lot of communication.
14:02:58 But here we are today, still talking about a
14:03:03 feasibility study, and here we are today still going
14:03:08 another year, another summer, without nobody being able
14:03:11 to go to the pool, and if you read some of the
14:03:14 documentation, you stated in your report, you say our
14:03:17 kids can go to Cyrus Green.
14:03:19 Now, Cyrus Green from 40th Street, is past 22nd street
14:03:27 and MLK.
14:03:29 These kids don't have the transportation, so they have
14:03:31 got to be bussed, and not funding any means to be on a
14:03:37 bus to go there.
14:03:38 So it causes a problem and hardship for these kids.
14:03:42 And so we are just at the point, you know, if we can't
14:03:50 get no solution and if the city is not willing to do
14:03:57 anything to approve and repair that pool -- and we are
14:04:02 all going to get old if we don't do nothing, every year
14:04:06 somebody get older if you are still here.
14:04:09 So that pool is definitely going to get old.
14:04:12 And the repairs are going to continue to deteriorate
14:04:16 because you have a hot bucket sitting out there in 95,
14:04:20 98-degree heat every day, with no top over it, and it's
14:04:25 probably phasing and everything just falling apart on
14:04:28 But here is where we are.
14:04:30 We need some answers, and we need some certainties, and
14:04:36 we want the city to be fair with us.
14:04:41 If you can't do anything, repair, then we need to know
14:04:46 If you are going to repair, I don't want to be sitting
14:04:50 here three more years from now and repeating the same
14:04:54 I would rather you come out there and dig the whole
14:04:57 thing out of the ground and just puts some plants
14:04:59 there, because it's not fair for us to see that out
14:05:02 there and see a big old tub sitting out there that
14:05:06 ain't nobody putting water in it.
14:05:07 And that's not fair.
14:05:08 So those are the concerns of my neighborhood, and I
14:05:14 hope you can answer not only to Williams park, but YM
14:05:24 Ybor as well.
14:05:24 >>KAREN PALUS: I think I got everything written down,
14:05:28 and I'll take them one by one and if I need refreshing
14:05:33 you will bear with me.
14:05:34 The first question is in regard to dates from CDBG
14:05:38 response versus today.
14:05:39 At that time, that is the information that was
14:05:41 available from construction administration department.
14:05:43 We work very closely with them.
14:05:46 They monitor all the contracts and manage.
14:05:47 That so at the time that was the information we
14:05:51 My conversations now, they are still waiting on that
14:05:55 I think we have got a preliminary draft that they are
14:06:00 reviewing, and working through with the consultant.
14:06:03 We want to make sure the information is accurate, and
14:06:07 they answered all the questions within the scope.
14:06:09 So that is why I gave you the date that I gave you
14:06:12 today, based on what they are sharing with me is what
14:06:15 they are anticipating from the consultant based on that
14:06:18 So that's why there is a difference.
14:06:20 At that time they expected just like I expected to have
14:06:22 it in May as well.
14:06:24 So, yes, there is a difference in that, and that's the
14:06:28 In regards to the Cuscaden pool communications and
14:06:31 such, we have kept ferry involved in construction and
14:06:39 our staff.
14:06:39 I am not aware of any meeting that we were invited to
14:06:42 that we missed but I will go back and definitely check
14:06:44 on that with my team.
14:06:46 But our goal has been to keep her in the fold as much
14:06:48 as we have been information, we have been sharing it
14:06:50 right back out with the neighborhood association trying
14:06:53 to keep them informed of that.
14:06:55 But it has taken a long time with that particular
14:06:58 consultant and that contract so they are trying to work
14:07:01 through that and make sure we get the report that we
14:07:03 are expecting from them within the scope and the
14:07:05 services that we expect from them.
14:07:08 And I will go back and follow back up with my team in
14:07:15 regards to that particular question N.regards to the
14:07:16 Williams park and the improvements and things that were
14:07:20 done with Williams park, our buildings and structures,
14:07:24 parks and recreation facility maintenance and
14:07:27 construction administration all work together on all of
14:07:30 our facilities and buildings and such.
14:07:32 One of the things that transpired is that we had some
14:07:36 issues at Williams, we wanted to resolve them and
14:07:39 resolve them quickly.
14:07:40 We did partner with a not-for-profit agency to help
14:07:43 with us that and we were very successful.
14:07:45 They did a great job and had a big celebration.
14:07:47 Let me share with you quickly all of the things
14:07:50 involved in that repair, and this is not just from a
14:07:53 This is the city's involvement as well.
14:07:55 And the numbers, I would say the pool, don't have this
14:08:01 information from public works yet, but our total just
14:08:03 based on what we were involved with is over $55,000 in
14:08:07 improvements in this last year.
14:08:10 The partnership, they are in-kind and their value was
14:08:14 for that particular facility was $75,000.
14:08:17 So if you will bear with me real quick, we put in new
14:08:21 drinking fountains, new receptacles, there's additional
14:08:25 receptacles on the way.
14:08:27 We have a new irrigation system in.
14:08:28 We have added the system which regulates the lights and
14:08:33 control systems for the lights there.
14:08:36 New doors have been installed.
14:08:38 Roof repairs.
14:08:39 Gutter repairs have been done at that location.
14:08:41 The plantings were done through staff and volunteers.
14:08:44 The site has been completely remulched.
14:08:48 Paint has been done interior and exterior with staff
14:08:51 and our volunteer groups.
14:08:53 We had the restroom fixtures redone to those facility.
14:08:59 There's a partnership again.
14:09:01 We purchased supplies.
14:09:02 They have a licensed plumb theory came in and did
14:09:05 They did improvements to the bleachers through donation
14:09:10 with Home Depot.
14:09:11 We restriped the basketball courts there.
14:09:15 We redid the parking lot and put over $30,000 this last
14:09:20 round into additional fencing.
14:09:23 For the location.
14:09:24 I think I mentioned the water fountain.
14:09:26 They put in additional grills, the playground surface
14:09:28 has been repaired, and we are continuing to work with
14:09:30 that not for profit at other facilities like Grant
14:09:33 Park, and -- the other one on the other side, Morgan
14:09:40 So those particular partnerships are important to us,
14:09:42 and we worked with the community on that.
14:09:44 But it's always in partnership.
14:09:45 It's never a wholehearted from one organization.
14:09:50 We always bring our tools and our resources to the
14:09:52 table as well.
14:09:53 It's important.
14:09:54 It's important for the community to be able to engage.
14:09:57 We think that's a great community builder.
14:09:59 The celebration, it's a wonderful opportunity with
14:10:02 those involved to come together in the neighborhood to
14:10:04 see all the transitions.
14:10:06 There was additional new site signs placed at that
14:10:10 location as well.
14:10:11 We continue to do improvements.
14:10:13 We continue to make improvements to the facility.
14:10:14 We do that with all of our facilities.
14:10:17 But the pools, that wasn't one of the options, for that
14:10:25 location because of the significant repairs that are
14:10:26 needed to happen at that location.
14:10:28 That actual shell is out of the ground so we have got
14:10:32 issues in that pool.
14:10:36 We did give information to Mr. Kinsey and the
14:10:39 neighborhood group back when this originally -- we
14:10:42 looked at it if we got in there and did repairs, we
14:10:45 were looking at $105,000 or so for those repairs on
14:10:50 That is what we anticipated based on what we knew.
14:10:53 With old facilities and old pools especially, you never
14:10:56 know what you are going to get into until you get in
14:10:58 there, and what could have been a $105,000, what we
14:11:01 thought based on what we knew, you get into something
14:11:03 much more structurally that could be a million.
14:11:08 We didn't know.
14:11:09 So that was why we said we would look at the overall
14:11:13 master plan of the site, work with the community on
14:11:15 what's important.
14:11:16 You mentioned the splash pad.
14:11:18 That was a big discussion.
14:11:21 We asked the kids would that be a more appropriate
14:11:24 thing to have the water and the ability to get wet ten
14:11:27 months, 12 months, versus a pool that was a $2 million
14:11:31 price tag for improvements based on what the add
14:11:37 information the administration had at that time.
14:11:40 And so those are all dialogue we wanted to have with
14:11:44 the community to determine what was best for them.
14:11:46 We heard walking trails.
14:11:47 We heard expansion to the facilities, that was the main
14:11:50 request from the community for many, many years was the
14:11:52 expansion of that facility and the last time it was
14:11:56 So holistically, bringing the infrastructure issues,
14:12:03 dealing with additional trail areas and such, looking
14:12:05 at our shelters, are they in the right place, is it the
14:12:10 right amount, do they need more, looking at other
14:12:12 facility amenities that may be a recommendation from
14:12:15 the community, that was the important program.
14:12:17 We heard the expansions to make sure we have a computer
14:12:20 lab in there, to make sure we have appropriate area for
14:12:22 fitness and wellness.
14:12:24 And so that needs to be a dialogue with everyone.
14:12:26 But we needed to know the survey issues.
14:12:28 We have to have the engineering to know what we need to
14:12:32 do infrastructurely to be able to accommodate an
14:12:35 You put a lot more impervious surface on a facility
14:12:38 that's already flooding.
14:12:39 That's what we are going to have bigger issues.
14:12:41 So it had to be a holistic approach and that's exactly
14:12:45 what we are doing.
14:12:46 We used the money from Zack Street to go forward with
14:12:49 the consultant that is underway, and we'll continue
14:12:53 with that process up to construction documents, and,
14:12:56 again, the redevelopment of that site, allocated
14:13:01 dollars in our request for CIP.
14:13:03 Again it's moving through the process.
14:13:05 Is it as quick as we would like it to be?
14:13:07 Probably not.
14:13:08 It takes a long time to go through our projects.
14:13:11 We have about 100 right now in parks and rec in some
14:13:15 form or fashion, and so we continue to work with the
14:13:18 community in each of those areas to make sure we are
14:13:20 providing the right elements for them.
14:13:23 And those kids are going to use those splash pads in a
14:13:29 They keep talking about it.
14:13:30 But there's an opportunity to do right and do what the
14:13:34 community wants.
14:13:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Council members?
14:13:39 >>FRANK REDDICK: Just one last.
14:13:40 I had a motion.
14:13:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: He yield to Ms. Mulhern.
14:13:46 >>MARY MULHERN: Just briefly, there were four pools
14:13:54 that are closed and you didn't mention, was it Interbay
14:13:57 was the fourth?
14:14:00 >>> The three pools that are closed for significant
14:14:03 structural and maintenance issues is Cuscaden, Roy
14:14:05 Jenkins and Williams.
14:14:07 The only other pool that's in our mix right now a pool
14:14:12 by Hillsborough high school that's not operational.
14:14:18 They had the same problems that Interbay did, that
14:14:21 Williams had and such.
14:14:22 >> Then I am not going to talk about that or ask about
14:14:25 that because I don't know anything about it but perhaps
14:14:28 we could have a report on that particular pool when you
14:14:31 are going to come back in July.
14:14:40 The Williams pool, how long has it been closed?
14:14:48 >>> This will be the third summer.
14:14:50 >>MARY MULHERN: You said the shell is out of the
14:14:56 >> Yes.
14:14:56 It's been continuing to be out of balance.
14:14:59 We had significant erosion issues for many years.
14:15:02 >>MARY MULHERN: But the shell of the pool is aligning,
14:15:06 what did you call it?
14:15:07 >>> It's the shell.
14:15:09 Like underneath this big shell, based on leaking and
14:15:16 challenges and things that can move and shift within
14:15:18 the ground.
14:15:19 It's what happened.
14:15:22 My team has worked really hard on when we have opened
14:15:24 previously to be able to manage the gutter systems.
14:15:29 The gutter systems have functioned properly for it.
14:15:32 >> Is the entire shell out of the ground?
14:15:34 >>> no, it's know it out --
14:15:36 >>MARY MULHERN: You are saying it's out of alignment?
14:15:38 >>> Yes, out of alignment, popped out.
14:15:41 >>MARY MULHERN: So the pool has been closed for three
14:15:43 years and you are still studying?
14:15:45 You don't know what the problem is, or do you know what
14:15:47 the problem is?
14:15:49 >>> No.
14:15:49 We are in the process of going through that now with
14:15:51 the consultant.
14:15:52 We have to secure the funds and such to move that
14:15:54 project forward which we did.
14:15:56 We allocated about $145,000 within that Zack Street
14:16:03 >> And that $145,000 is for --
14:16:06 >>KAREN PALUS: For the consultant.
14:16:07 >>MARY MULHERN: A pool consultant?
14:16:09 >>KAREN PALUS: No.
14:16:10 It's the overall site for everything on that site.
14:16:13 >>MARY MULHERN: So who is studying the problems to
14:16:15 repair the pool?
14:16:17 >>KAREN PALUS: The consultant through that process.
14:16:20 And we have the information that we are getting from
14:16:23 the feasibility study, for the aquatic study going on.
14:16:27 That city-wide piece I told you about, we are going to
14:16:30 take a lot of that information and pull that into it so
14:16:32 we have dialogue.
14:16:33 >>MARY MULHERN: I want to know about this particular
14:16:35 pool, not about feasibility for the entire city
14:16:38 >>KAREN PALUS: Okay.
14:16:39 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
14:16:40 So what portion of that consultant, $145,000, is
14:16:46 towards recommendations for the pool for repairing the
14:16:51 >>KAREN PALUS: What portion?
14:16:52 >>MARY MULHERN: Are you even doing that?
14:16:54 >>> I'm not sure what you are talking about.
14:16:56 >>MARY MULHERN: Is your consultant telling you what
14:16:58 needs to be done to repair the pool and how much it
14:17:00 will cost?
14:17:02 >>> That's what we are getting from the city-wide
14:17:04 feasibility study.
14:17:06 That's the piece we are getting out of that.
14:17:07 >>MARY MULHERN: This isn't city-wide, this is one
14:17:11 Has anybody given you that on that right now?
14:17:13 >>KAREN PALUS: On the 13 pools that they are assessing
14:17:16 in the city-wide studies, that's the information that
14:17:19 will be coming forward.
14:17:20 We'll take that information that's being provided in
14:17:22 that study and fold that into the consultant that's
14:17:25 working on the overall site plan.
14:17:27 >>MARY MULHERN: So the $145,000 is for the entire
14:17:32 >>KAREN PALUS: In a, no, no.
14:17:33 That's for Williams.
14:17:36 For the entire park.
14:17:38 >>MARY MULHERN: How much -- okay.
14:17:39 Has anyone told you what is wrong, what the structural
14:17:45 problems are and how much it will cost to fix Williams
14:17:50 >>KAREN PALUS: Something currently beyond Wan we knew
14:17:53 from before?
14:17:54 No, I do not have that information.
14:17:56 >>MARY MULHERN: What did you know from before?
14:17:57 >>> I have the information from my staff --
14:18:00 >>MARY MULHERN: How much?
14:18:01 >>KAREN PALUS: At that time, to do an overall of the
14:18:05 facility, construction administration looked at that
14:18:08 similar to what we were assessing it, and a $2 million
14:18:12 price tag.
14:18:13 >> For the pool only?
14:18:14 >> Yes.
14:18:15 >> When did you get that?
14:18:16 >>> That was in '09.
14:18:18 >>MARY MULHERN: Were there ever any funds allocated
14:18:20 for that?
14:18:21 >>KAREN PALUS: For that facility, no, not at that
14:18:25 That's why at that time determined to look at the whole
14:18:29 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, I think we are looking at-the
14:18:44 city has 13 pools, two of them are closed, one of them,
14:18:49 the community has been asking to have put back into
14:18:56 good repair for at least three years.
14:19:00 And so when you come back, Councilman Reddick will
14:19:05 probably make a motion, but I would like you to come
14:19:08 back when you do with written estimates for the
14:19:13 repairs, and what needs to be done for the Williams
14:19:19 pool so that we could get it open this summer.
14:19:25 And I would like to point out to council, we do have --
14:19:30 I believe Councilman Reddick was quoting the CDBG
14:19:34 request that we got from a committee that the
14:19:41 administration appointed to then recommended how to
14:19:45 spend those funds.
14:19:46 And I think that this is a very important thing for us
14:19:53 right now.
14:19:53 So if you cannot and don't have this funded elsewhere,
14:19:58 I would like to see that, and perhaps if the
14:20:05 neighborhood association hasn't already done that, if
14:20:08 they made a written request or application for CDBG
14:20:13 funds, did they apply for CDBG funds for this, do we
14:20:18 >>KAREN PALUS: They put in their submittal for this
14:20:21 information, yes.
14:20:22 >>MARY MULHERN: And was it declined?
14:20:24 >>> I don't know.
14:20:26 We have been moving forward the funding through our own
14:20:29 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, and what are your own sources?
14:20:33 Maybe you could also come back with recommendations for
14:20:37 where we could find that $2 million, between CDBG funds
14:20:42 and whatever your other sources are.
14:20:43 >> Well, the other source that's listed for what we
14:20:49 have said we would funds Williams park for is in the
14:20:52 new round of C.I.T.
14:20:53 >> Okay.
14:20:56 So there's C.I.T. money, too?
14:20:59 >>KAREN PALUS: That is our only funding for those
14:21:02 kinds of projects.
14:21:03 >>MARY MULHERN: And you can't -- I thought there was
14:21:06 an application for CDBG funds for it.
14:21:09 So those are two sources?
14:21:11 >>KAREN PALUS: Yes, they submitted their request
14:21:13 through the process, but I am not aware of any funding
14:21:16 coming forward specifically to that facility from CDBG
14:21:20 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, this administration recommends
14:21:29 what we grant CDBG, you know, grants for.
14:21:33 So I think council would probably support that that.
14:21:37 Then the other thing Kristina did some research and the
14:21:44 only thing she could find on Williams park was back in
14:21:47 2008 -- and this says for the community center.
14:21:51 So actually this wasn't for the pool.
14:21:52 But back in 2008, there was $284,870 that were deemed
14:22:10 tracked and recommended.
14:22:11 I think this was approved from CRA from TIF dollars.
14:22:15 East Tampa TIF dollars where are approved for Williams
14:22:19 park community center.
14:22:22 And then the status report here back in 2008 said
14:22:26 project canceled, funds to be reallocated to another
14:22:30 neighborhood infrastructure project.
14:22:34 Do you have any idea what that was?
14:22:37 >> I have to go back and look.
14:22:39 >> Maybe you can finds out what they reallocated that
14:22:42 money to, if it actually stayed in Williams park, or
14:22:48 where it went.
14:22:48 >>KAREN PALUS: Okay.
14:22:51 I can check that out.
14:22:52 >>MARY MULHERN: That's another thing we can look into
14:22:54 as our CRA board, if there's some CRA money.
14:22:58 But I think, you know, for three years of trying to
14:23:01 figure out what the problem is, I think we need to go
14:23:06 ahead with trying to fix this.
14:23:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Before I yield to Mr. Suarez -- I'm
14:23:17 not a mathematician by any sense, but when the pressure
14:23:20 of a volume is greater from the outside than it is from
14:23:22 the inside the pool will pop up.
14:23:25 So did the pool always have water or no water?
14:23:28 If the volume is there, then the pressure by itself on
14:23:33 the outside will make that structure rise.
14:23:35 >>KAREN PALUS: That particular pool, just like many of
14:23:39 our others, we drain each fall and do repairs and such,
14:23:43 and then fill them each spring.
14:23:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So it has no water to speak of.
14:23:49 >>> Correct.
14:23:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Suarez?
14:23:51 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Ms. Pal us, thanks for giving us your
14:23:55 I have a quick question.
14:23:58 Councilwoman Mulhern touched on this a little bit.
14:24:01 We are doing this for three years, okay?
14:24:03 Who the heck is this consultant?
14:24:06 And Patton used to have an argument, if you can't take
14:24:14 that hill I am going to fire you and tap somebody who
14:24:17 can take that hill.
14:24:18 Three years without a pool seems like an awful lot of
14:24:21 I have had seen people build whole pools within weeks.
14:24:24 War we doing?
14:24:26 What kind of pool are we making?
14:24:29 You know, are we making Olympic pool?
14:24:31 Are we having the Olympics come to this place?
14:24:34 Just doesn't seem that we can't build a pool, or fix a
14:24:37 pool within three years.
14:24:39 I think that Mr. Miranda made a good point.
14:24:42 Maybe we are doing something incorrect.
14:24:44 What I would like to see -- and I know that Mr. Reddick
14:24:48 is probably going to make a motion about this -- is a
14:24:50 specific reason why.
14:24:53 And sexually, I want to look at the contractor of this
14:24:55 consultant as to whether or not we should even have him
14:24:57 if he can't figure it out in three years.
14:24:59 And I know that you dig down, you find something
14:25:02 Believe me, there's a lot of construction people out
14:25:04 there that are more than willing to look at this
14:25:07 particular problem and get paid doing it.
14:25:11 I would love to find out.
14:25:12 I think you mentioned $145,000. It's probably more
14:25:16 They probably got us on the hook for something else.
14:25:18 But if we can't fix a pool in three years I feel sorry
14:25:21 for the rest of the City and public services.
14:25:23 I really want to know specific information on Williams
14:25:25 pool, because you do have people here that made a very
14:25:29 impassioned plea about what's happening.
14:25:32 And they feel not only in terms of the communication
14:25:34 issues that Mr. Reddick mentioned but in terms of just
14:25:38 common sense how a pool can be out of commissions for
14:25:41 three years.
14:25:42 And I understand Cuscaden is kind of a different animal
14:25:45 because that has a lot of other historical and
14:25:48 different issues.
14:25:49 But I don't think Williams has those same issues.
14:25:51 So we really need to have those answers.
14:25:53 And please provide those to us.
14:25:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Montelione.
14:25:58 >>LISA MONTELIONE: --
14:26:04 >> To be sure, you haven't been able to give too many
14:26:07 specific answers and that's fine.
14:26:09 I understand.
14:26:09 That but international not sure you can answer
14:26:11 specifically as to what I want, which is why a
14:26:14 consultant can take three years.
14:26:15 I know the whole city feasibility.
14:26:18 Let's not confuse the issue.
14:26:19 The issue is Williams pool.
14:26:21 Three years.
14:26:21 Why hasn't it been repaired?
14:26:24 That's the only question I have.
14:26:25 And if you don't have the answer, please do not say
14:26:28 >>KAREN PALUS: I do have an answer for you.
14:26:31 That's what I would share with you.
14:26:34 It's not been three years that we started with the
14:26:36 I want to make sure we are very clear on that.
14:26:39 What's happened with the children is the school was
14:26:42 closed through the conditions and such of that facility
14:26:44 and was not able to open based on significant changes
14:26:47 with the Department of Health, regulations that that
14:26:50 site would not meet without going through
14:26:51 significant --
14:26:54 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Talking about the state law concerning
14:26:55 the grading for --
14:26:57 >>KAREN PALUS: Grading, ad issues.
14:27:01 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I understand.
14:27:02 But again it's something that I deal with all the time,
14:27:06 with clients that have pools, and they have to replace
14:27:09 those grades.
14:27:11 Again it is not a three-year process.
14:27:13 Continue on.
14:27:14 >>KAREN PALUS: What I wanted to share was, yes, it's
14:27:17 not a three-year process, but the discussion and what
14:27:19 had resulted from the overall site, not just the pool,
14:27:22 the overall site, we had been in discussions about
14:27:25 expanding the location there at Williams, that
14:27:28 particular facility.
14:27:29 So that's why with the infrastructure issues, the
14:27:31 building expansions and the improvements that should
14:27:34 happen with the pool, that's why it was discussed that
14:27:37 we need to look forward to additional dollars to bring
14:27:40 somebody in to really assess the overall site and
14:27:43 determine the new pool with the community.
14:27:47 >> And again the only thing I am getting at, is this a
14:27:50 money issue? Is it a structural issue?
14:27:52 Is it a consulting issue? That's the only thing I
14:27:55 worry about.
14:27:55 Because I can't help solve a problem, none of us, can
14:27:58 unless we know that specific answer.
14:28:00 So until we get that specific answer, we can't help you
14:28:03 run the parks and rec department the best way that you
14:28:07 Because if you need money we need to find money.
14:28:09 If you need a better consultant, let's find that
14:28:12 I just think that after three years, if you clogs the
14:28:15 pool every year for three years, and nothing has been
14:28:18 done in terms of being able to have kids in that
14:28:21 pool -- at this point it's too late.
14:28:23 I mean, it's the end of June, July is coming up.
14:28:27 By the time we gets this thing repaired we are going to
14:28:29 say it's time to close the pool.
14:28:30 So, I mean, that's where the frustration is at.
14:28:35 But I appreciate your answer.
14:28:36 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Again we are all adding to what we
14:28:44 are anticipating Councilman Reddick to ask in his
14:28:48 >> And I need one.
14:28:55 >>LISA MONTELIONE: It hasn't gotten here yet.
14:29:01 Perhaps what would be helpful to all of us is to see
14:29:07 something that I am used to seeing in my business, is
14:29:12 we need a project time line, we need a cost breakdown,
14:29:17 we need analysis, not a study, but when we talk about
14:29:24 feasibility studies, we often can, with what we already
14:29:28 have, the knowledge on hand, break it down into what we
14:29:33 can do immediately, what we can do with a short time
14:29:39 frame, and what improvements we would be looking at
14:29:44 And from what I am hearing between the discussion and
14:29:46 what you have responded thus far, and what I have seen
14:29:49 in writing, is that our issues are getting muddled up
14:29:56 because we are looking at repairing a pool.
14:29:58 But then worry looking at the site work.
14:30:01 And then we are looking at landscaping and irrigation.
14:30:04 And it's almost as if we don't take care of the
14:30:08 immediate problem that came to us, or came to you -- I
14:30:13 wasn't here -- but the immediate problem that came to
14:30:16 you got buried in what we were now looking forward to
14:30:24 what we want to see.
14:30:26 And I understand the concept that we don't want to
14:30:30 spend, you know, be penny wise, pound foolish, however
14:30:36 that saying goes, and the community was consulted and
14:30:40 we decided to add other things to the project.
14:30:43 But and I think that's what happened.
14:30:47 You know, I think just got all bogged down in bigger
14:30:51 and bigger and bigger plans, and we never addressed the
14:30:54 initial problem that came forth.
14:30:59 So if we could separate out like the information you
14:31:01 already have on hand, we don't have to wait for the
14:31:03 study to come back, the project time lien, cost
14:31:06 breakdown and separation of what bits and pieces the
14:31:11 old Swiss cheese method, what bits and pieces we can
14:31:16 get done in the short time, and I think that would
14:31:19 clarify a lot of issues, and then we can see what we
14:31:22 have the money for and we what we don't have the money
14:31:25 And that would help us a great deal, I think.
14:31:31 >>> And this is related specifically to the Williams
14:31:36 park pool only, is what you are asking for.
14:31:37 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I would say Williams park is the
14:31:41 one that has received the most discussion, Cuscaden, as
14:31:45 Mr. Suarez pointed out, probably correctly so, that
14:31:48 there is some historical issues with Cuscaden pool.
14:31:51 But I think that's possible with all four of them.
14:31:54 Like I said, we should have already this information on
14:31:57 It's a simple spreadsheet.
14:31:59 It hasn't -- I have done it before for various
14:32:02 It shouldn't take one staff member a long time to put
14:32:07 this together.
14:32:08 It should be fairly straightforward, if we have been
14:32:11 studying this for a long time.
14:32:15 Everybody -- you should have the information, and
14:32:18 there's one other thing that struck me a little odd and
14:32:21 I don't know if it struck anybody else this way.
14:32:23 But you talked about the consulting with the community,
14:32:27 and seeing what the community wanted and doing
14:32:31 feasibility studies.
14:32:32 And this is being done on a construction
14:32:35 I didn't realize that construction administration had a
14:32:37 hand in serving the neighborhoods.
14:32:40 >>KAREN PALUS: Construction administration is
14:32:43 responsible for all of our contracts, and so we work in
14:32:47 conjunction with them, once we have the consultant on
14:32:50 Then we go out and we plan our public meetings, we do
14:32:53 whatever preliminary work is done, we meet with them on
14:32:56 a regular basis through the city architect, and whoever
14:32:59 the pledge of allegiance manager is for construction
14:33:01 administration, meets with our team.
14:33:03 We work through again bringing information back with
14:33:07 the community.
14:33:08 And a good example of that is where we are at with Roy
14:33:11 Jenkins right now.
14:33:12 We have a consultant came on board.
14:33:15 We have done our feasibility with overall site, brought
14:33:21 them on board, sought information from the community as
14:33:23 far as the situation with Roy Jenkins, took that
14:33:26 information, went out, and then developed two site
14:33:28 plans, in which to bring to the community.
14:33:30 And then we had that community meeting recently, the
14:33:34 16th of June, met with the Davis Island community
14:33:38 to talk with the two different plans, what they liked,
14:33:41 didn't like about it, what the preferences were, do you
14:33:43 want us to move forward for a variance because you want
14:33:46 it to look like this versus this facility?
14:33:49 We have those kinds of discussion was the community in
14:33:51 construction administration is involved in that, my
14:33:54 team is involved where that, and the consultant was
14:33:56 there to present that information for them.
14:33:57 So perhaps --
14:34:02 >> It just strikes me when I look at a business model,
14:34:05 oftentimes the more people you have involved, the more
14:34:07 complex it becomes.
14:34:09 So perhaps this isn't solidly on your shoulders, but
14:34:13 also shared with the departments of contract
14:34:16 administration and construction services.
14:34:18 And I know when you are dealing with pools, a lot of
14:34:20 people who have them, even personal pools will tell you
14:34:24 they are a money pit.
14:34:25 And it is something that I think is important.
14:34:28 Splash pads are great for kids.
14:34:30 They love them and everything.
14:34:31 But there's not the interaction that you get with a
14:34:36 swimming pool, the experience of having a pool to swim
14:34:41 in as opposed to running around a splash pad.
14:34:44 It's to me not socially, functionally for children it
14:34:47 just doesn't provide the same experience.
14:34:50 And the same lessons learned from having a pool to swim
14:34:55 So I understand from a construction background what Mr.
14:34:58 Miranda was saying, what Chairman Miranda was saying.
14:35:02 If you don't keep water in a pool for an extended
14:35:04 period of time, literally, if it's a fiberglass pool,
14:35:07 that baby will pop out of the ground.
14:35:12 Gunite and concrete and poured pools, a little
14:35:15 different, but the site surrounding it has a lot to do
14:35:18 with the pool itself so does become very expensive.
14:35:23 And I heard flood being issues mentioned.
14:35:27 You know, the more the property floods, and there's no
14:35:31 water in that pool, you are going to have even bigger
14:35:34 So I understand the complexities.
14:35:36 But I think if we break it down into, like I said,
14:35:40 short steps, clearly understood, it would help a lot.
14:35:44 Thank you.
14:35:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Cohen?
14:35:50 >>HARRY COHEN: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
14:35:52 Just a quick question and then a comment.
14:35:54 When you say that nine pools are currently open, are
14:35:58 they open seven days a week from dawn to dusk?
14:36:01 I mean, do they all have different operating times, the
14:36:04 same operating times?
14:36:07 Just very briefly, what is the parameters of that?
14:36:11 >>KAREN PALUS: The answer would be yes.
14:36:12 They all have different operating times, based on what
14:36:16 programs and activities are being held there, two, what
14:36:18 agreements we have in place with different
14:36:20 organizations to provide services out of them, as well
14:36:22 as when the public open swim is.
14:36:26 We also schedule in group swims from different groups
14:36:29 like the daycares and such that come into the facility.
14:36:31 So they vary.
14:36:33 Some of them are open throughout the entire week.
14:36:37 Some of them open six days.
14:36:38 It just really varies based on the community's needs
14:36:41 and what's available.
14:36:42 >> And does that also mean that some pools are open
14:36:45 year round and others are just open --
14:36:47 >> Yes.
14:36:47 >> What one of the frustrations that I heard voiced,
14:36:51 and I just want to use what happened as sort of a
14:36:53 comprehensive discussion about the pools, is it's hot,
14:36:59 there aren't jobs for a lot of kids this summer because
14:37:02 of the state of the economy, and the options of a pool
14:37:06 during the summertime, I think, is a particular rub
14:37:12 given the environment that the city is going through.
14:37:14 One of the concerns that I hear expressed is how are
14:37:17 the decisions made regarding when the pools are going
14:37:21 to be open, what time of the year, you know, whether or
14:37:24 not they are going to be available on weekends, and
14:37:28 maybe as part of this discussion we could look at some
14:37:31 of that, because I know that I have been hearing from a
14:37:38 lot of different people that they are frustrated with
14:37:41 decisions that don't really make a lot of sense to
14:37:44 For example, they have got a pool that's perfectly
14:37:47 fine, it's going to be closed during the summertime.
14:37:50 And so maybe that's just part of the discussion that we
14:37:54 can have, because it does seem to me there needs to be
14:37:58 a review of those determinations.
14:38:00 That's all.
14:38:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
14:38:03 Any other comments by council at this time?
14:38:05 I go back to Mr. Reddick.
14:38:06 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
14:38:08 And I don't know.
14:38:11 I think Councilman Suarez might have a handle on this.
14:38:14 Because way want to do is ask contract administration
14:38:20 report to council on the details, repairs, and also
14:38:29 pertaining to the consultant contract, and that's the
14:38:36 reason I think Mr. Suarez handled that with the
14:38:40 questions he raised, and, if not, I want to make sure
14:38:43 that contract administration is involved in this
14:38:46 process, because we need to get some answers, and they
14:38:50 should come here and provide us those answers.
14:38:52 Now, I don't know if we put a time line on when we want
14:39:02 Let me -- when do you report back here?
14:39:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me say this.
14:39:10 From what knowledge I have gained today, from the
14:39:12 dialogue that we have had today, I think both of you
14:39:17 are correct.
14:39:18 I think everybody that's been said is excellent.
14:39:20 I don't know if it's worth saving this pool.
14:39:24 I think that's what the council is trying to find out.
14:39:26 It might be best to find out what the cost of
14:39:28 replacement is, total cost, to do the grading and the
14:39:34 flooding, a this and that and the other done.
14:39:36 So when they are there, they can do everything at once
14:39:38 versus the cost of just repairing the pool.
14:39:41 The cost of repairing the pool may exceed the cost of
14:39:44 building a new one.
14:39:46 It's like saying I have got a car that's 20 years old,
14:39:49 and by the time you buy spare parts and you add it to
14:39:53 the sum, the cost is two and a half times of buying a
14:39:57 So theses are the things you have to look at.
14:39:59 And I think we are heading in the right direction with
14:40:01 asking the questions of the department to do the
14:40:05 contracting and so forth for the city.
14:40:07 I know you don't do that.
14:40:08 But I can also appreciate the frustration that the
14:40:11 neighborhoods have, not only this neighborhood, other
14:40:14 neighborhoods have, and the systematic way that we do
14:40:20 It's a lot of money, 145,000, to have a consultant do
14:40:25 one pool, or one area of that park.
14:40:28 That's my assessment.
14:40:29 I may be wrong.
14:40:31 But when you start doing those things, and you look at
14:40:34 the need of the neighborhood, you know, there's nothing
14:40:38 better than a body and a mind being kept busy during
14:40:44 summer when you have a healthy body that's always
14:40:48 running around.
14:40:49 They have got a place to run around in.
14:40:51 And parks and recreation, I think, saves a lot of
14:40:55 peoples lives from going the wrong way.
14:40:57 I mean that sincerely.
14:41:00 From my own experience.
14:41:03 So what I am saying is, I'm asking my two colleagues,
14:41:07 Mr. Swords and Mr. Reddick, to give us some direction
14:41:11 so we can come to conclusion.
14:41:12 What do I think is going to happen?
14:41:14 I think CIP will more likely kick into this park.
14:41:17 Do I think it's going to be done in this session?
14:41:20 I am being very sincere, no.
14:41:23 Because I think this is the section that's bringing it
14:41:25 up to above the ground level where you can see what
14:41:27 needs to be done, and to addresses this issues as they
14:41:32 expediently can be done.
14:41:34 Have we dragged our feet?
14:41:36 More likely, somewhat, yes.
14:41:37 And I am apologetic to the neighborhood for that.
14:41:39 But working together with Mr. Kinsey and others in the
14:41:42 neighborhood, and show the plan as we move along, not
14:41:45 just the final project, here is where we are now, and
14:41:49 next month here is where we are going, I think the idea
14:41:54 is the fact that it's going to be resolved, and I think
14:41:57 that's what the neighborhood wants.
14:41:58 And I yield again to Mr. Suarez and Mr. Reddick.
14:42:01 >>FRANK REDDICK: Well, I would like to make a motion
14:42:04 that we request contract administration to report back
14:42:06 here in July --
14:42:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, July we meet, I think, the
14:42:14 14th and the 21st.
14:42:17 14th and 28th.
14:42:18 >>FRANK REDDICK: July 28th.
14:42:21 That gives us a comparison cost of replacing the pool
14:42:26 at Williams park, or to install a new one.
14:42:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Reddick.
14:42:30 I have a second by Mr. Suarez on that motion.
14:42:33 Any further discussion of that motion by council
14:42:42 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Does that include the spreadsheet,
14:42:44 the cost breakdown, the time line?
14:42:46 >>FRANK REDDICK: I will extend that as well.
14:42:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's a motion added to the
14:42:50 amendment made by Mr. Reddick and Mr. Suarez by Mrs.
14:42:54 All in favor of that motion please indicate by saying
14:42:56 Opposed, nay.
14:42:57 The ayes have it unanimously.
14:42:58 And I would ask that although this is -- you meet on a
14:43:04 regular basis with Mr. Kinsey.
14:43:06 He was the one designated as the neighborhood liaison
14:43:09 for this project and I appreciate your consideration,
14:43:11 Mr. Kinsey.
14:43:12 I appreciate you coming up.
14:43:13 Thank you very much both of you.
14:43:18 We go to item 97.
14:43:26 >>JEAN DORZBACK: Transportation manager.
14:43:28 I appreciate the opportunity to be here to give you a
14:43:32 very brief summary at your request of our
14:43:35 communications plan for the upcoming closure of the
14:43:39 Platt Street bridge.
14:43:41 The county is planning a project to rehabilitate the
14:43:45 The project is currently underway.
14:43:47 I'm sure you are aware, with some partial lane closures
14:43:50 that are occurring.
14:43:51 The most important piece of this project in terms of
14:43:54 the community interest is what they are calling the
14:43:57 phase 3, which will involve a total closure of the
14:44:01 So the city team, which includes of course our
14:44:05 neighborhood and community relations, neighborhood team
14:44:08 Shannon Edge, our public affairs, transportation, we
14:44:13 have put together a team with Hillsborough County and
14:44:17 their engineers and their community group, to get the
14:44:22 word out to the community about this upcoming closure.
14:44:25 The closure is currently planned for sometime in
14:44:28 The exact date will be determined as soon as the county
14:44:31 has information from the contractor when they have got
14:44:35 all of pieces in place, to actually start that phase.
14:44:39 As you are probably aware, the Platt Street bridge is
14:44:42 extremely old.
14:44:43 It's about 84 years old.
14:44:46 It's in need of repair structurally and otherwise.
14:44:51 And so we are very fortunate there are some available
14:44:56 to do this work.
14:44:57 So it's a positive even though it's going to be an
14:44:59 inconvenience temporarily on the commuters in the area.
14:45:01 The bridge closure is planned to last approximately
14:45:05 three months.
14:45:08 Currently our plan is already in place, and we had our
14:45:12 first public meeting last night.
14:45:13 We appreciate Councilman Suarez and Councilman Cohen
14:45:16 participating in that meeting.
14:45:17 We have already met with some of the major stakeholders
14:45:20 in the area such as Tampa General Hospital, also other
14:45:25 transportation agencies such as Hart, school board, and
14:45:29 we are outreaching to other neighborhood groups such as
14:45:36 Harbor Island.
14:45:37 We had commissioner Murman as well and she's going to
14:45:40 assist us as Mr. Cohen has been to communicate with the
14:45:43 South Tampa folks.
14:45:48 I will also be working with MacDill Air Force Base
14:45:50 and other neighborhoods that want us to come out and
14:45:52 give a specific presentation of what's going to be
14:45:56 I have maps here I would like to be share with you, if
14:45:59 you don't mind.
14:46:17 The address is on the bottom.
14:46:20 These are on the Web site.
14:46:21 Trying to be green with our paper communication here.
14:46:25 These maps were provided to our major stakeholders and
14:46:28 to our meeting participants last night.
14:46:30 We are also already working with the press.
14:46:33 We have done a couple of interviews with some of the TV
14:46:37 stations and the newspapers, and they are all very
14:46:41 interested and supportive of working with us to keep
14:46:44 getting the word out as this gets closer to actually
14:46:50 I just want to refer you briefly to these maps.
14:46:56 One side, if you wouldn't mind taking a look, is what
14:46:59 we are calling the natural view.
14:47:01 It's the p look at the city.
14:47:07 We already have plans in place to put what we call the
14:47:10 variable message boards out.
14:47:14 As far over as the western side of the city, as well as
14:47:18 communicating with the Department of Transportation to
14:47:20 see about the availability use, their directional signs
14:47:23 on the interstate.
14:47:24 So when people in St. Pete and Pinellas County are
14:47:27 getting ready for their commute, the heads of the City
14:47:29 of Tampa, downtown area, we want them to be thinking
14:47:33 ahead of time which route are they going to take to get
14:47:36 to the downtown Tampa if they typically use the Platt
14:47:41 Street bridge and know that's no longer available, what
14:47:45 is their route to get into downtown?
14:47:47 So we will have this map available.
14:47:49 We will have signs out in advance, getting the word out
14:47:54 to people so they can start thinking ahead prior to the
14:47:57 actual closure of an alternative route that they can
14:48:00 pick take.
14:48:02 As you can see from the maps, there are still lots of
14:48:04 opportunities available.
14:48:05 There will be some added congestion from the project.
14:48:09 But there are still options available for people to get
14:48:12 over the river and into the downtown area.
14:48:15 We of course have Gandy Boulevard.
14:48:17 We are encouraging people to use the Selmon expressway.
14:48:20 There will be a toll cost for that.
14:48:22 But because this is a temporary situation, it may be
14:48:26 worth the extra dollars to pay to get on the Crosstown
14:48:29 and take that into the downtown.
14:48:31 We have also got, of course, Kinsey Boulevard and the
14:48:34 interstate, and certainly the Laurel street bridge even
14:48:38 though on the northern end of the city those are
14:48:42 available crossings that people can use during the
14:48:45 If you turn your maps over to the other side -- and I
14:48:49 apologize, I should be putting this on the Elmo.
14:48:59 Again, this same map is available on the H and the City
14:49:02 of Tampa Web site.
14:49:04 Anyone can go on and view it, print it or whatever they
14:49:07 This map is a closer view of the downtown area.
14:49:13 We are going to have detour route signs posted within
14:49:18 the downtown area so the people that are in this area
14:49:22 and negotiating their way through the different street
14:49:25 of the downtown can be best directed as to where to go
14:49:28 to avoid the Platt Street bridge.
14:49:31 As you can see from the map, the bridge will be closed.
14:49:35 We are also going to be closing the Davis Island ramp
14:49:38 that goes off and up to the north.
14:49:42 The reason for that is we want to discourage people
14:49:44 from getting onto the Bayshore and just queuing up on
14:49:47 Bayshore and getting in a line waiting to make a left
14:49:51 onto Vern.
14:49:53 So in order to try to best accommodate the situation we
14:49:55 are actually going to be three-laning Plant Avenue
14:50:00 that's going to allow for more volume traffic to come
14:50:03 across from Davis Island and up from Bayshore to get
14:50:06 onto Plant.
14:50:09 Once you are on Plant you will have the option of
14:50:11 getting onto Brorein.
14:50:14 Excuse me.
14:50:15 The Crosstown or Kennedy Boulevard to get across the
14:50:20 We also will have some temporary changes for the
14:50:26 Morgan-Florida ramp that typically is closed during
14:50:30 special event times.
14:50:33 We are going to work with the forum, TPD group, and
14:50:36 temporarily have that ramp opened during the special
14:50:39 events so that Harbor Island folks that are trying to
14:50:42 get back to Harbor Island will have a means to get
14:50:45 there more quickly without that ramp being closed.
14:50:50 So, again, already have our own communication team in
14:50:56 We already have our outreach through the media, through
14:50:58 meetings and through the Web site, and we would be
14:51:01 happy to come back as we get closer to this closure to
14:51:04 be get another update, answer questions and continue to
14:51:06 try to get the word out to everyone to please try to
14:51:09 Michael tern tiff plans temporarily while this project
14:51:12 is underway.
14:51:13 If you have any question, I would be glad to take
14:51:15 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Ms. Dorzback, thanks again for this and
14:51:22 for the presentation yesterday for the public two.
14:51:24 Quick questions.
14:51:25 I and I think I mentioned this to Steve Daignault
14:51:29 But one of the problems that I see is the Davis Island
14:51:31 If you could, try to find out the numbers of people
14:51:34 that already travel on that bridge.
14:51:36 I didn't get an answer yesterday, and I think they had
14:51:38 not either calculated or had it in front of them.
14:51:44 Do you have any numbers now?
14:51:45 >> I don't have a breakdown of how many people go off
14:51:47 of that ramp.
14:51:48 >> In a problem.
14:51:50 >>JEAN DORZBACK: We do have a general number of
14:51:52 vehicles that go across the Platt Street bridge on a
14:51:54 daily basis.
14:51:55 >> That number got memorized, it was 33,000.
14:51:59 The reason I ask that is because I think what may
14:52:01 happen -- and I know there are going to be some
14:52:04 problems with the lights in terms of how they are going
14:52:06 to have them charged red to green, is that I think a
14:52:11 lot of people will take it all the way down to Plant,
14:52:15 and then go up there, and that's going to be same nexus
14:52:19 where the Gibbs islands crowd will be coming over.
14:52:26 The seconds question I have is, have you looked at
14:52:30 doing both radio and TV PSAs in order to advertise
14:52:36 the folks about this?
14:52:38 I know that newspapers don't have the same kind of
14:52:41 cachets they used to, but radio and TV still does.
14:52:45 There is an organization called AD-2 Tampa Bay that
14:52:52 provides nonprofits support in a volunteer basis.
14:52:56 They are all advertising professionals.
14:52:58 You might want to look into that.
14:53:00 I'm sure the TV stations and radio stations will be
14:53:02 happy to provide free air time for a short of time so
14:53:06 we can get this message out to people.
14:53:08 >> We will certainly look into the ads 2 Tampa Bay.
14:53:16 I know the county communications team have been
14:53:18 communicating on all the different ways that we can get
14:53:21 the word out.
14:53:22 But we will definitely look rat that as another option
14:53:25 to let people know about the project.
14:53:27 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you.
14:53:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any other council members at this
14:53:32 Mrs. Montelione, Mr. Cohen.
14:53:33 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Just a suggestion.
14:53:38 Is the volume of university students and faculty that
14:53:41 use the Platt Street bridge that come over to the
14:53:43 downtown is probably a high number, and university
14:53:52 students, the only way to communicate these days is
14:53:55 Twitter and Facebook.
14:53:56 So I would suggest very highly that -- and with Twitter
14:54:01 and Facebook it got to be relevant.
14:54:03 So if you put that out now that we are going to do
14:54:05 something in October, it's not going to mean anything.
14:54:07 So the concentration of efforts would be, I would say,
14:54:11 August when the kids come back to school and start in
14:54:18 September, especially with Twitter and Facebook,
14:54:22 because that's really how they communicate.
14:54:25 So just my two sons, thank you.
14:54:30 >> Great suggestions.
14:54:32 >>HARRY COHEN: Very briefly.
14:54:34 Thank you very much.
14:54:34 Yesterday's presentation was very informative.
14:54:36 And I know that the people that attended got a lot of
14:54:40 good information about what's going to happen.
14:54:41 Two things very briefly that came out of that.
14:54:43 The first is that you may notice if you look at the map
14:54:48 that really this closure is only going to influence
14:54:52 people's morning commute.
14:54:54 It's not going to influence their afternoon commute
14:54:56 because the Brorein street bridge that goes the other
14:55:00 way from downtown is going to continue to remain open.
14:55:03 And there was some discussion of two weighing Brorein
14:55:07 street but that does not seem feasible.
14:55:09 It was mentioned it was a good idea not to do that
14:55:13 partially because at least then people will only be
14:55:15 inconvenienced in the morning, not both going to work
14:55:17 and going home.
14:55:18 So my suggestion is that the Bayshore improvement
14:55:23 project that's going on right now, to whatever degree
14:55:26 that can be sort of reduced in the southbound direction
14:55:31 during the same period that Platt Street bridge is
14:55:33 closed, i