TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
Thursday, December 1, 2011
9:00 a.m. Session
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09:03:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Tampa City Council is called to order.
09:04:35 The chair yields to Yolie Capin for presentation of the
09:04:43 >>YVONNE CAPIN: The invocation this morning will be given by
09:04:45 Sherry Silk, Executive Director of the Humane Society of
09:04:49 Tampa Bay.
09:04:50 Sherri has been in animal welfare worker for 28 years and
09:04:54 has been working with Hillsborough County animal services to
09:04:56 help lower euthanasia rate in our community.
09:05:02 Sherri is going to make a couple of quick announcements
09:05:04 about the Humane Society and then she will -- we will rise
09:05:09 for the invocation.
09:05:10 Thank you.
09:05:10 >> Good morning.
09:05:12 A quick announcement.
09:05:13 This Saturday, Tampa Bay will be giving a free shot clinic
09:05:18 to the residents of Tampa Bay in East Tampa.
09:05:23 For the first 1,000 animals will receive their free
09:05:26 vaccination force rabies in December as well as we are doing
09:05:29 a toy drive so that the children in the area will also
09:05:31 receive a free toy during the holiday season.
09:05:35 And then we are very excited, December 12th, which is a
09:05:39 Monday, we are going to be doing our groundbreaking for our
09:05:41 animal health center, over a 10,000 square foot affordable
09:05:45 health clinic for pets for the community.
09:05:48 It's going to be right across from the West Tampa sandwich
09:05:51 shop, a landmark in West Tampa, that shows our commitment to
09:05:54 the West Tampa area, and we will be generating did B a dozen
09:05:58 jobs at that new facility.
09:06:00 We are very excited. Opening should be in the summer, end
09:06:02 of summer of 2012.
09:06:04 So we are very happy.
09:06:07 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
09:06:08 Please rise.
09:06:08 >> Please bow your heads.
09:06:10 Let us pray silently each one of us according to our
09:06:14 individual beliefs.
09:06:15 We pray for strength and guidance each day as it comes for
09:06:18 each day's duties and each day's problems.
09:06:20 May we be challenged to give our best always and be ever
09:06:23 mindful of opportunities to render our services to all
09:06:26 fellow citizens including the less fortunate in our
09:06:29 Guide us in our service and keep us well so we can serve all
09:06:32 to the best of our ability.
09:06:34 Finally, we ask you to guide each of our government leaders.
09:06:38 Make their daily decisions that affect us motivated by the
09:06:42 same great rule of charity and good will to help move our
09:06:45 community forward as we approach the new year.
09:06:55 (Pledge of Allegiance)
09:07:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Roll call.
09:07:09 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Here.
09:07:12 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Present.
09:07:13 >>FRANK REDDICK: Here.
09:07:14 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
09:07:14 >>HARRY COHEN: Here.
09:07:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:07:18 At this time I need a motion for the adoption of the
09:07:23 Motion by council member Mulhern, second bid council member
09:07:27 All in favor of the motion?
09:07:29 The Ayes have it unanimously.
09:07:31 At this time, the chair yield to Yolie Capin for a
09:07:34 presentation to a friend of mine, the community, and someone
09:07:38 that I have known has done an outstanding job as the leader
09:07:41 of the university of Tampa.
09:07:43 Ms. Capin.
09:07:46 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
09:08:01 I would like to welcome Dr. Ronald Vaughan, president of the
09:08:05 university of Tampa, Dan gero, and Eric cardana, director of
09:08:13 public information.
09:08:16 This morning, Tampa City Council congratulates the
09:08:20 University of Tampa on its 80th anniversary.
09:08:23 One of the best investments the City of Tampa ever made was
09:08:27 leasing the Tampa Bay hotel to the university of Tampa in
09:08:31 what is today known as Plant Hall.
09:08:33 The University of Tampa has been and continues to be a
09:08:36 classic cultural asset and economic engine in our community.
09:08:41 The university began with 67 students in 1931.
09:08:46 It has grown 100 times, 6,700 men and women, a diverse
09:08:51 student body of which two-thirds live on campus, providing
09:08:54 an annual economic impact of 600 million to our region.
09:09:00 From its inception in plant hall, the university has grown
09:09:05 to 50 buildings spread over 100-acre campus, 550 full time
09:09:11 faculty for support administrative staff and annual budget
09:09:14 of $170 million.
09:09:17 During the tenure of president Vaughan, the university
09:09:20 entered a period of expansion with approximately $210
09:09:23 million of construction.
09:09:26 The university offers 140 areas of study for students from
09:09:37 in the United States and 114 countries.
09:09:42 Beautiful Plant Park on the west bank of the Hillsborough
09:09:45 The University of Tampa, at the historic former Tampa Bay
09:09:50 hotel, enhances our downtown core.
09:09:52 Growing together over the years, the university and the City
09:09:55 of Tampa have joined forces to form an educational
09:09:59 partnership benefiting thousands of our residents.
09:10:03 Tampa City Council commends the University of Tampa on its
09:10:07 notable achievement of its 80th anniversary and wishes
09:10:13 continued success.
09:10:17 President Vaughan, I give this to you.
09:10:19 And I will not read it because I paraphrased what's on
09:10:23 And congratulations.
09:10:26 Thank you so much.
09:10:28 [ Applause ]
09:10:30 >>> Thank you very much.
09:10:39 We are honored to receive the proclamation.
09:10:41 Indeed we have come a long way being started during the
09:10:45 depression 80 years ago and we are pleased to be of service
09:10:48 to the people in this community and the people throughout
09:10:51 our country and world as well.
09:10:55 Again, we'll continue striving to provide quality
09:10:59 educational experience, getting better and better, and we
09:11:04 trust that our impact will expand.
09:11:08 We think maybe a billion dollars in another 15 years will be
09:11:12 about right. Anyway, thank you very much.
09:11:14 We appreciate your leadership as well.
09:11:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item number 2 is a presentation set for
09:11:33 this one we just had, and I think I will pull it off the
09:11:36 agenda with council permission and let Ms. Capin set it when
09:11:40 the appropriate time arrives.
09:11:42 I need approval of the agenda.
09:11:44 >> So moved.
09:11:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mr. Reddick, second by Mr.
09:11:51 The Ayes have it unanimously.
09:11:53 We go to the public comment section for 30 minutes allowed
09:11:55 for matters that are on the agenda first.
09:11:58 Anyone who wishes to speak on any item that's on the agenda
09:12:02 And then if time allows we'll go to items not on the agenda.
09:12:07 Yes, sir.
09:12:07 >> Good morning, distinguished council members.
09:12:12 Essie Simms, East Tampa chairman, for East Tampa
09:12:17 partnership, here on item 4, in support of that resolution
09:12:22 for us to hopefully you would pass, and because we have a
09:12:26 serious problem in East Tampa when it comes to prostitution,
09:12:30 the drugs that are being funneled through that area, and we
09:12:35 hope that the City Council will take into consideration this
09:12:37 ordinance very seriously, because we want to clean up our
09:12:41 community the best we can, and hoping that you guys will
09:12:44 support us in that ordinance.
09:12:46 I'm not sure if the other issue that I want to speak about
09:12:50 is on the agenda.
09:12:51 If not I'll sit down.
09:12:53 And that is the 43rd street issue when it comes to
09:12:57 I'm one of those kind of people, I don't like to hear what
09:12:59 people say.
09:13:00 I go and see it for myself.
09:13:01 And after we have lost a second child in our community due
09:13:05 to roads and sidewalks, I went out to 41st street during
09:13:09 the day.
09:13:10 The next day a young lady had been killed, and I'm sorry for
09:13:13 her family that she was lost.
09:13:14 But as I sat there and I watched the flow of traffic down
09:13:19 that street, the construction of it, the lack of sidewalk
09:13:22 all the way up to Hillsborough Avenue juncture, I was very
09:13:28 And as I watched a young lady got off the bus, she had to
09:13:32 wait for about five minutes before traffic cleared that she
09:13:35 could even get onto the street.
09:13:37 And then she had to motor down the middle of the street just
09:13:40 to get down 41st street.
09:13:43 Later that nature I went back out to that property and I
09:13:46 looked at the lighting issue in concern out there, and
09:13:51 there's serious need for the city to really take a very good
09:13:53 look at the issues that happen on 43rd, and I understand
09:13:59 the city departments are looking to this matter, and thank
09:14:01 you, Councilman Reddick, for your leadership in pushing this
09:14:04 issue forward, but I would hope going forward that the city
09:14:07 will look at a comprehensive plan when it comes to all roads
09:14:11 and sidewalks within the East Tampa boundaries that we can
09:14:18 do today and not put off to tomorrow because this has become
09:14:21 a serious problem in our community and we want to address as
09:14:25 best as we can possibly get addressed.
09:14:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much, sir.
09:14:28 And you are right, Mr. Reddick is taking that to heart and
09:14:31 doing a very good job, and he's expediting things as quickly
09:14:35 as possible.
09:14:36 Yes, sir.
09:14:37 >> I'm Tillou, I'm speaking for items 18 and 21, in the
09:14:44 context of the deterioration of the streets.
09:14:47 Those are water issues, but maybe too much attention is
09:14:51 being put on water and not enough on streets.
09:14:54 I mean, it needs both.
09:14:56 It's a matter of how high water and streets.
09:15:06 What I think was 22nd was vacant but 17th, 18th is
09:15:10 still horrible.
09:15:11 The busway still has a fuel holes in it and needs resetting
09:15:17 where it's was a railroad track.
09:15:20 And there's another one but I can't read it.
09:15:26 Item 19 also bears on water, but that's stormwater, and
09:15:29 that's something I worked with.
09:15:31 I was down in the engine room.
09:15:33 I worked within the bureaucracy and I know what has to be
09:15:36 done like the streets.
09:15:38 I don't think the last administration chose to neglect
09:15:41 streets but she didn't want to be on the doorstep of public
09:15:44 works people all the time, and to a large extent that's
09:15:48 what's required.
09:15:49 Now, with item 19, there's too much stress on pipes over
09:15:53 percolation which brings us back to the fertilizer ban for
09:15:57 which there is need, there is a need for a fertilizer ban
09:16:00 but it's got to be proper and it's got to include slow
09:16:06 release fertilizer.
09:16:09 Item 6 through 8 are about the police departments, and again
09:16:13 the need for a police department, the county and city, and a
09:16:21 traffic enforcement department that could also do noise
09:16:26 One of the problems is when the past ordinance -- it didn't
09:16:32 take into account the 14th amendment was thrown out by
09:16:35 the courts, it was an increase in the noise, but a car with
09:16:44 a loud stereo is about twice a week and about five or six
09:16:49 times a week a very loud car with the muffler is connected,
09:16:55 the exhaust when a shady mechanic disconnect their muffler,
09:17:00 and that contributes to the air pollution as well.
09:17:02 Well, the thing is the police department has other things to
09:17:05 do, and they understand that.
09:17:08 There's got to be more need of -- Baltimore developed, older
09:17:16 people who are often retired and yet are tough as nails, and
09:17:19 I see that New York City is making these.
09:17:22 So there's got to really be a third police department, and
09:17:26 maybe they can drive around in orange-colored vehicles like
09:17:31 we are not the regular police, we are really stopping you
09:17:33 because your taillight is out, that kind of thick thing.
09:17:37 And the law enforcement aspects of the laws be different.
09:17:41 (Bell sounds).
09:17:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
09:17:47 I apologize for those good individuals that are here for I
09:17:51 believe item number 60 but that's a time certain at 10:00 in
09:17:54 the morning and I can't do that, but also when you come up
09:17:58 and you say you are going to speak on an item that's on the
09:18:01 agenda, don't go off to other items that are not on the
09:18:05 agenda, because I will stop you.
09:18:07 >> My name is Betty Bell. My address is 3003 Star Street,
09:18:19 Tampa 33605. I live in Highland Pines, but I represent East
09:18:21 All of us have drugs and prostitution and other criminal
09:18:26 activity going on in our area.
09:18:29 I will name a few of the ones in my area.
09:18:31 46th street and Columbus drive, 48th and 49th
09:18:37 street, and 26th Avenue and 50th street.
09:18:42 Those are the prostitution areas.
09:18:44 Of course, we have drugs et cetera.
09:18:46 The other thing I wanted to talk about was last month I was
09:18:50 here about four or five months ago coming into my
09:18:55 neighborhood and Thanksgiving day it came again.
09:18:58 I'm asking, I'm pleading that you get with the recreation
09:19:02 department and ask them to put locks on those gates and have
09:19:06 them closed on holiday and on the weekends, because I cannot
09:19:12 keep putting my life on the line with over 100 people coming
09:19:16 into my neighborhood like this.
09:19:18 And I have to do that each time.
09:19:20 I thank you for that.
09:19:21 The last thing I want to say is, we are having a drug
09:19:26 March/stop the violence March in the East Tampa area
09:19:32 starting at 3:00 p.m. at greater mount caramel located at
09:19:37 4209-34th street.
09:19:39 We will start lining up at 3 p.m., and we will start the
09:19:48 race at 4 p.m.
09:19:49 I ask for your cooperation.
09:19:50 All of you are invited.
09:19:52 Thank you.
09:19:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Next, please.
09:19:54 >> Susan Long, East Broad Street, here to talk about
09:20:11 impounding the cars.
09:20:12 I live one block off Nebraska.
09:20:14 I spent somewhere between six and eight years going out
09:20:17 every single solitary weekend on mobile crime watch,
09:20:21 relative to the prostitution issue on Nebraska.
09:20:24 It helped.
09:20:25 It helped a lot.
09:20:25 But it didn't get rid of it.
09:20:27 When we stopped going out, I want to say roughly three years
09:20:30 ago, it was very quiet for a while.
09:20:32 Now they are coming back.
09:20:37 The Johns think this is a victimless crime. They do not
09:20:40 understand what it does to people like me who live near the
09:20:44 I have gotten up in the morning with syringes in my front
09:20:47 I have found used condoms lying in the gutters for the
09:20:51 children and pets to pick up as they wander by.
09:20:54 I have come home and had two cars sitting parked in front of
09:20:58 my house for prostitutes out front looking for business.
09:21:03 I followed Johns as they are racing around, had an accident
09:21:12 with a motorcyclist and killed the motorcyclist.
09:21:14 The Johns do not believe there are any victims of this
09:21:16 correct me if I am wrong.
09:21:17 The penalties for the Johns has been pretty minimal.
09:21:20 Those that were forced to go to John school learned and
09:21:26 didn't come back.
09:21:27 Those that didn't go you see them back next weekend and the
09:21:30 weekend after that.
09:21:31 Please pass this impoundment issue.
09:21:33 It would make a huge difference in our neighborhood.
09:21:36 Neighbor thank you.
09:21:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Ms. Long.
09:21:38 >> I'm Kelly, 2701 north ninth street.
09:21:46 Tie live one block off of Nebraska.
09:21:48 A lot of people do not realize the impact of prostitution
09:21:51 and the johns has in the neighborhood of what it causes to a
09:21:55 neighborhood or what impact it has on a neighborhood.
09:21:58 The Johns that frequent our neighborhood have in a regards
09:22:00 for what's going on around them.
09:22:02 And across the street, it's filled with kids and people, and
09:22:07 Johns are so focused on finding prostitutes they have no
09:22:11 regards for the residents that live in our neighborhood.
09:22:14 I'm in the neighborhood that I know this is a problem up and
09:22:18 down Nebraska.
09:22:24 I know women that have been solicited like I have right in
09:22:27 front of my house.
09:22:28 We do regular garbage clean-ups and find rubber gloves and
09:22:32 condoms used in the prostitution trade.
09:22:35 Kids have to see the prostitutes being dropped off and
09:22:37 picked up by Johns in the neighborhood as they do this
09:22:40 usually in the early-morning hours around 6:00 when the kids
09:22:44 are at the bus stop.
09:22:45 And also the prostitutes support the drug houses in the
09:22:51 neighborhood so the Johns frequent the prostitutes and gives
09:22:58 money to the prostitutes to help the drug trade.
09:23:04 I urge you to approve the passing of the John ordinance as I
09:23:09 really do think it will provide a deterrent for the Johns.
09:23:11 Right now, the police officers' hands are tied.
09:23:14 I also do mobile patrol.
09:23:18 We have been doing mobile patrol pretty regularly for the
09:23:20 last two years now and there's nothing that the officers can
09:23:23 really do to deter those Johns.
09:23:29 With the ordinance recently passed, I think in conjunction
09:23:32 with the John ordinance, it will provide a means to stop or
09:23:35 at least significantly impact the prostitution problem in
09:23:40 our area.
09:23:41 I also will agree with Susan Long that those Johns circle
09:23:47 the neighborhood, one block off Nebraska you will see them
09:23:51 whipping down the street trying to get back around,
09:23:53 sometimes two or three trucks following trying to get to the
09:23:56 prostitute before the other ones.
09:23:59 And that's basically it.
09:24:00 I really urge you strongly to pass this.
09:24:02 I think it will help our neighborhood.
09:24:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:24:07 I appreciate it.
09:24:08 >> Kim Headland, 1001 east 24th Avenue and I'm here to
09:24:13 speak regarding the impound ordinance, agenda item number 4.
09:24:18 I the petition has become synonymous with Nebraska Avenue,
09:24:25 has a reputation that goes way beyond city limits, and it's
09:24:29 even mentioned in international travel guides,
09:24:32 This proposed ordinance will provide TPD with a much needed
09:24:36 added tool to address what has been proven to be an
09:24:39 incredibly persistent issue.
09:24:41 Most important, I believe this ordinance has the ability to
09:24:45 affect the quality of life for thousands of residents, and
09:24:49 it has the possibility to deter criminal activity and deter
09:24:53 other related crimes that are at issue with prostitution
09:24:58 from drugs and illegal dumping.
09:25:00 It can make an incredible amount of progress towards
09:25:04 cleaning up problem areas and could even contribute to
09:25:07 encouraging positive urban core revitalization that many
09:25:10 other cities across the country have already run.
09:25:17 I live one block east of Nebraska Avenue and I can tell you
09:25:19 this is a very needed tool for TPD and a great deterrent for
09:25:22 anybody who is soliciting street level prostitutes.
09:25:28 It affects the quality of life, everything from the mundane
09:25:31 things like finding undesirable items in your front yard to
09:25:35 having items being solicited simply walking down a sidewalk
09:25:41 in the middle of a Sunday afternoon.
09:25:42 It affects property value, it affects our community and
09:25:46 deters private investment. Can you imagine driving down
09:25:49 Nebraska Avenue at 7 a.m. as a professional only to be
09:25:52 flashed by a prostitute, sometimes a man dressed as a woman,
09:25:56 sometimes not.
09:25:58 Most professionals aren't going to think of Nebraska Avenue
09:26:00 as a great place to investor live for that matter.
09:26:05 And prostitutes get dropped off less than ten yards from
09:26:07 school bus stops where there are 15 kids waiting to go to
09:26:11 elementary school.
09:26:12 It simply isn't pretty.
09:26:14 It's simply not acceptable and isn't pleasant to discuss.
09:26:19 The ordinance is long overdue and much needed for many areas
09:26:21 that reached a plateau in terms of quality of life concerns.
09:26:26 Street level prostitution and the soliciting of that
09:26:29 shouldn't be acceptable behavior anywhere in Tampa
09:26:31 regardless of socioeconomic background, and I ask that you
09:26:35 move forward to provide TPD this additional tool to address
09:26:38 and deter criminal activity.
09:26:40 (Bell sounds).
09:26:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:26:42 Next, please.
09:26:42 >> Judy Greer, east 15th Avenue, also in the VME Ybor
09:26:52 And as Kim and Kelly already stated, the prostitutes
09:26:56 obviously are a huge problem, but the Johns -- and I know
09:26:59 that Susan said this, they think it's a victim luz crime.
09:27:03 I can remember being in Seminole Heights eight years ago and
09:27:07 chasing down Johns who would actually follow my 14-year-old
09:27:10 as she jogged through the neighborhood.
09:27:13 So who knows what actions they are going to take?
09:27:17 The whole thing is the johns, we all know, Kelly can tell
09:27:23 you all their names and everything.
09:27:24 We don't know one John's name.
09:27:26 Guess what, if a John's wife said, gee, what happened to
09:27:31 your car?
09:27:32 I don't care if you are a USF professor, which I'm sure come
09:27:35 to our residents for hookers, we have got homeless guys
09:27:38 using the hookers, we have a multitude of people using the
09:27:42 hookers, and it's been tremendous -- and I live eight blocks
09:27:48 off Nebraska, and I still see hookers in my alley and use my
09:27:53 alley to throw their trash, and I really appreciate you all
09:27:57 helping TPD out and passing the ordinance.
09:28:00 Thank you.
09:28:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I appreciate it very much.
09:28:02 Next, please.
09:28:02 >> Sherri GENABROUGH, president of the Seminole Heights
09:28:13 association, speaking to the exact same thing.
09:28:16 I think it's kind of traffic control, to go to my
09:28:19 neighborhood about 2:00 in the morning, there will be Abe
09:28:23 ten cars going north and south and twice that many east and
09:28:28 You have to ask yourself why.
09:28:30 They are not going anywhere.
09:28:32 They are looking for something.
09:28:33 And if they don't have a car to look for it, it's going to
09:28:36 cut down on the traffic in my neighborhood in the overnight.
09:28:41 I, like Susan and some of these others, fought this problem
09:28:46 for many years, and I know that every little tiny tool we
09:28:49 put in TPD's tool box, the less prostitutes we have in the
09:28:56 I speak for the board.
09:28:58 It wasn't unanimous.
09:28:59 We had one person questioning the amount of power that might
09:29:04 be given to TPD, that might be misconstrued.
09:29:09 In other words, the co-ownership of the car is a question.
09:29:12 I don't know how to bring that up where you guys can talk
09:29:15 about it, but that is their concern.
09:29:18 The board as a whole supports this.
09:29:21 I certainly as a resident, who also lives right behind
09:29:25 Ellis, right off of Nebraska, I support it too. I think
09:29:28 anything that you can do to help TPD level the playing
09:29:31 field, I support.
09:29:35 Thank you.
09:29:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
09:29:36 Next, please.
09:29:37 >> Pete Johnson.
09:29:43 I want to speak on one item on the agenda and one item --
09:29:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Try to make it fair for not only yourself
09:29:50 and the audience but the people that are in line, and I wish
09:29:53 you would speak on that one item on the agenda and hold the
09:29:56 rest off till later.
09:29:57 >> Thank you, sir.
09:29:58 As far as the item number 4, I totally support this.
09:30:03 I have researched the amount of prostitution and drug
09:30:06 activity that goes up and down Nebraska Avenue.
09:30:11 TPD needs more enforcement just like these Nuisance
09:30:16 Abatement Board.
09:30:17 Last night, or yesterday, showed that enforcement is needed,
09:30:22 and new tools are needed for TPD.
09:30:25 I'll get back to you on the second item.
09:30:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thanks very much.
09:30:29 Next, please.
09:30:29 >> My name is Adrian Larange. I live at 201 north Tampania
09:30:37 Avenue, here talking about item 59.
09:30:40 And the alcohol variance.
09:30:43 I strongly suggest that you not allow this to go through.
09:30:47 I have lived in the neighborhood for over 20 years.
09:30:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's set for public hearing.
09:30:55 I'm not trying to tell you what to do or how to do it.
09:30:57 But if you speak now, you can't speak later when your time
09:31:00 is --
09:31:03 >> That's a public hearing.
09:31:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes.
09:31:06 So I wish you would hold off till we go to the public
09:31:08 hearing section which would be in in a few minutes.
09:31:11 >> That will be fine.
09:31:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:31:13 Next, please.
09:31:14 >> Good morning, council.
09:31:18 My name is Benjamin Buckley, vice-president of North Hyde
09:31:21 Park civic association, live at state street.
09:31:26 I'm here about item E-11-394.
09:31:30 >> What item is that on the agenda?
09:31:33 >> 59?
09:31:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's 59.
09:31:39 Thank God I have the clerk's office to tell me that was 59.
09:31:42 We can't use that right now until we open those hearings.
09:31:44 >> So you want me to come back?
09:31:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Right.
09:31:49 Next, please.
09:31:50 >> Nicole walker here on behalf of item 06.
09:32:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Excuse me, I am going to have to
09:32:09 That's also set for a time certain at 10:00.
09:32:15 If council wishes to hear, I think we can.
09:32:17 It's not a public hearing.
09:32:19 It's an item only.
09:32:21 So I think you can speak on it.
09:32:22 Go on.
09:32:23 >> My name is Nicole walker here on behalf of item 06.
09:32:33 I live at 430 Hillsborough and this is looking for
09:32:36 I'm looking for lights.
09:32:38 I'm looking for speed bumps.
09:32:40 And want to have a street in her name.
09:32:49 That's what I'm asking for.
09:32:50 >> I really appreciate it.
09:32:52 And I know it's hard for you to come and speak this morning
09:32:57 through your representative Mr. Reddick.
09:32:59 He's done those things and we are working on it.
09:33:01 But we'll take that, and he knows how to get it done, and
09:33:04 I'm sure it will be accomplished.
09:33:06 >> Thank you so much.
09:33:07 >> Thank you so much and we are sorry.
09:33:13 Next, please.
09:33:13 >> My name is Dottie Groover Skipper and I want to talk on
09:33:18 item 4 as well.
09:33:20 And come to it from a little bit different angle from some
09:33:23 of the other speakers.
09:33:25 I recently founded a faith-based organization which provides
09:33:29 retreats for vulnerable women, and we collaborate with
09:33:34 organizations who are working with women who are recovering
09:33:38 from addiction, in recovery, from domestic violence, women
09:33:44 who are transitioning from jail, and prison, into our
09:33:49 society, back into our neighborhood, and we work with women
09:33:52 who are escaping exotic dancing and prostitution and helping
09:33:57 them to get their life back on track, and removing them from
09:34:01 the streets.
09:34:03 And what we have found in working with this population group
09:34:08 is that a lot of these women are tracked, and they perceive
09:34:15 that they have no other means to support themselves and to
09:34:18 So what I just want to put on the radar today is that until
09:34:24 these women can be provided the appropriate resources to
09:34:30 climb out of the shame that they are experiencing in this
09:34:32 lifestyle, some will continue to prostitute themselves, and
09:34:38 I just want to suggest that just as in the tobacco control
09:34:43 fund was done, the moneys that were used as fines for the
09:34:48 tobacco companies, that money was used in preference and
09:34:52 resources to assist those who might want to stop smoking, to
09:34:55 assist those youth in prevention of smoking, I might just
09:35:01 want to suggest that if this ordinance is passed, that
09:35:05 perhaps some of the moneys that is collected from the
09:35:09 impounding could be utilized to help provide resources for
09:35:13 these women, to help them get to have streets, and to filter
09:35:17 them back into respectable professions.
09:35:21 Thank you.
09:35:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Next, please.
09:35:28 >> Good morning.
09:35:29 My name is Jerry Elsworth, president of south Seminole
09:35:32 Heights civic association.
09:35:34 And we are not a neighborhood thankfully right now that has
09:35:39 a problem with prostitution and Johns.
09:35:41 However, we are the neighborhood where they come after they
09:35:43 pick each other up.
09:35:44 The problems exist in Rivercrest Park along the Hillsborough
09:35:48 River and along the streets adjacent to the park.
09:35:53 I have had neighbors that have reported activity in the
09:35:56 middle of the night in front of their houses.
09:35:58 So we certainly support any ordinance that's going to help
09:36:01 the police crack down on this problem.
09:36:05 I'm assuming we are already impounding cars or towing cars
09:36:09 when Johns are arrested.
09:36:11 I certainly think anything else that we can add to that, to
09:36:15 cause them to think twice about this, I'm certainly
09:36:18 I'm not even sure if $500 is enough.
09:36:21 But I would certainly support any tool, anything we can give
09:36:26 to the police department to help them fight this problem.
09:36:28 Thank you.
09:36:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much, sir.
09:36:32 Next, please.
09:36:32 >> Evan St. Ives. I live at 1227 east park, and I'm
09:36:39 president of the Old Seminole Heights neighborhood
09:36:47 We are 100 percent in favor of this ordinance, and we urge
09:36:50 you to support it.
09:36:53 I have spent a good deal of time with the police department
09:36:56 in the past going around, and I have been on their patrols
09:37:02 that we have had in the neighborhood, and I have also picked
09:37:04 up the brief on the elementary schools in the neighborhood,
09:37:08 and the high schools, so basically I'm here to urge you to
09:37:13 support this.
09:37:14 I think one other thing that's very important is to say how
09:37:17 many people are here, and how many people, each one of those
09:37:21 people represent, and so I'm urge you to pass this
09:37:24 And I thank you very much.
09:37:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:37:27 Next, please.
09:37:27 >> Fran Costentino, president of the east Ybor historic
09:37:37 civic association.
09:37:38 I'm here to put on record that we are here to support
09:37:40 council with the ordinance, but I don't know if I am out of
09:37:45 Number 63 on the agenda.
09:37:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: When we get to 63.
09:37:52 >> And welcome back, Mr. Miranda.
09:37:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, thank you very much.
09:37:58 Let me say that is under 10:00.
09:38:01 And I appreciate your holding for that.
09:38:03 >> Thank you.
09:38:05 The east Ybor historic association does support it.
09:38:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Next, please.
09:38:14 We are going to speak next on items not odd agenda.
09:38:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Look what time did.
09:38:25 It cured everything.
09:38:26 >> As you know, I'm a very strong advocate for code
09:38:31 If they will turn the Elmo on, this is information that I
09:38:34 sent to you all.
09:38:35 I talked to a few of you about the problems of code
09:38:40 We have an epidemic, and the epidemic is the repeated
09:38:44 violations that continuously happen on properties over and
09:38:50 over and over again.
09:38:55 It's a problem that has created such a backlog that the
09:38:58 department cannot get ahead of the 8-ball, no matter how
09:39:04 much money we put into it, no matter how little money we put
09:39:08 into it, no matter how much of a computer system we put into
09:39:11 When the same properties that continuously violate codes,
09:39:16 the department is totally underwater.
09:39:24 This is 8,000 civil citation warnings that have gone out,
09:39:30 8,000 in just from two years, 8,000 in two years.
09:39:39 Not one of these civil citations or warnings are
09:39:45 We pass an ordinance putting up a fine.
09:39:50 They are noncollectable.
09:39:53 The clerk of the court does not collect them.
09:39:55 Not one case has been collected.
09:39:59 This is ridiculous.
09:40:00 I'm having a meeting with the judge tomorrow morning about
09:40:05 The man is ready to throw the baby out with the basket.
09:40:10 He's wasting his time.
09:40:12 Code enforcement is wasting their time.
09:40:14 There is no enforcement.
09:40:17 I have given a list of suggestions of how to change the
09:40:20 attitude that a violation is only a violation when it is
09:40:24 brought to a hearing.
09:40:27 The statute says the violation is a violation when it is
09:40:30 noted by the officer.
09:40:33 And only when we use that scenario can we use the repeat
09:40:37 violation portion of the state statute.
09:40:40 So we need to change our attitude.
09:40:43 Not that we just clean up the violation, but that we work
09:40:47 for continuous violation compliance.
09:40:54 Because over and over and over again for the last 20, 30
09:40:57 years has put Tampa in an epidemic problem that we cannot
09:41:01 get out of.
09:41:02 I'm sorry, but I am definitely asking that we have a
09:41:06 workshop on code enforcement where we can sit down, talk to
09:41:11 code enforcement and legal, and look for more improved ways
09:41:16 of enforcement of the codes.
09:41:18 Thank you.
09:41:18 (Bell sounds).
09:41:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:41:20 This will be the last speaker.
09:41:21 Next, please.
09:41:22 >> Good morning, Mr. Chairman.
09:41:30 My name is Don Rhode, 412 Madison street.
09:41:33 Back in October, I did inform this council while pro tem
09:41:39 chairman Mulhern was presiding that I tried to present a
09:41:42 proposal for amending certain sections of the city code.
09:41:47 The amendments were offered in light of the Occupy Tampa
09:41:51 protest and your recent passage and consideration of the
09:41:56 solicitation and panhandling ban in the City of Tampa.
09:42:00 I did so twice, once at a meeting, sir, that you chaired,
09:42:05 and once again by submission of a package to the city
09:42:09 clerk's office which you guys took a look at, I guess, the
09:42:12 last time you met.
09:42:13 Since that time, and during that time, although there have
09:42:17 been a smaller number of protestors involved in the area
09:42:19 over by Ashley street, there's actually been more arrests
09:42:23 that have occurred, and some of those arrests have been for
09:42:27 charges that are more serious than mere violations of the
09:42:29 city code.
09:42:31 The police have alleged charging instruments, that there
09:42:34 have been instances of statutory trespass, battery on law
09:42:38 enforcement and interference with police activities.
09:42:42 In nearly all those instances, the more serious arrests
09:42:46 arose initially from perceived violation of the three
09:42:50 ordinances that are offered by amendments in October.
09:42:55 With this in mind, I guess I'm back for another three
09:42:59 minutes on the issue, and I would like to just remind the
09:43:03 council that on the books currently there is an ordinance
09:43:08 that basically states if a homeless person, or a person
09:43:10 engaged in protest, free speech assembly or expression, has
09:43:16 items in their possession, they lay them down on the street,
09:43:19 they can be arrested, fined, placed on probation, and have
09:43:24 those belongings removed from them, and then be charged a
09:43:28 fee for storage as well.
09:43:31 There's another ordinance here that says that a person
09:43:33 cannot occupy a street or sidewalk in such a manner as to
09:43:37 obstruct free passage of that street or sidewalk, yet it
09:43:41 fails to contain any definition of obstruction and free
09:43:44 There's also an ordinance in the City of Tampa that states
09:43:49 that you cannot sleep or camp in a park coupled with
09:43:53 departmental rules, and in practice, it basically states
09:43:56 that you can't sleep, can't or even remain in a park during
09:43:59 a good portion of the 24-hour day.
09:44:05 This represents a rather unfortunate and unnecessary
09:44:11 curtailment of highest and best use of city-owned land that
09:44:15 could be used for these purposes with a little bit of
09:44:19 creativity on the part of the legislative body.
09:44:24 I'm not asking you to agree that these laws need to be
09:44:27 changed immediately.
09:44:28 I'm not asking you to negotiate with me or anyone else.
09:44:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:44:32 You are certainly entitled to come back at the end of the
09:44:34 meeting and we'll listen to again.
09:44:36 We appreciate it.
09:44:37 >> Do you know when that might be?
09:44:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I can't tell you, but if I don't get out
09:44:42 of here by 12, I have done a bad job.
09:44:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA:
09:44:47 >> thank you.
09:44:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We go now to the item number 3.
09:44:51 And now I believe council member Cohen is going to introduce
09:44:58 Angelo Rao.
09:45:05 >> Mr. Angelo Rao a member of the Planning Commission has
09:45:10 joined us to do a presentation on complete streets, a
09:45:13 strategy meaning that roadways are designed to be
09:45:15 accessible, comfortable and safe for all United States
09:45:19 Councilman Suarez, Councilman Montelione and I saw this
09:45:23 presentation to the MPO on November 1st and Councilwoman
09:45:27 Montelione has asked for this presentation to be done today.
09:45:32 For Tampa City Council.
09:45:33 So welcome, Mr. Rao.
09:45:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If you are here, hurry up.
09:45:51 I don't see Mr. Rao.
09:45:53 So we will hold that.
09:45:55 Mr. Cohen, I'm sorry I put knew that position.
09:45:57 Okay, anyone in the audience that requests a reconsideration
09:46:00 of any legislative matters on the previous week?
09:46:07 I see none.
09:46:26 Before we continue with the agenda, I have a request by
09:46:29 council member on item 61 but it's not 10:00 yet.
09:46:32 Let's wait till 10:00 and we'll do that.
09:46:36 Ordinance presented for first reading.
09:46:39 4 and 5.
09:46:40 Need a motion to open.
09:46:42 >> So moved.
09:46:42 >> Second.
09:46:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Cohen, second by
09:46:46 Mr. Suarez.
09:46:47 All in favor of the motion?
09:46:50 All right.
09:46:50 Item number 4.
09:46:51 Anyone in the audience?
09:46:53 This is a first reading.
09:46:55 So you have heard the concern of the public.
09:47:03 On second reading is when you have the public participation
09:47:05 but I think we have heard enough today on first reading that
09:47:10 would certainly have enough weight and the consideration of
09:47:12 council members.
09:47:12 We'll go left to right.
09:47:14 Mr. Cohen, will you take item number 4?
09:47:18 >>HARRY COHEN: I move an ordinance being presented for
09:47:20 first reading consideration, an ordinance of the city of
09:47:23 Tampa, Florida creating code section 14-30, prohibiting the
09:47:28 utilization of a motor vehicle in the commission of offenses
09:47:31 relating to prostitution, lewdness or drugs, providing a
09:47:35 penalty including the impoundment of vehicles used in
09:47:37 violation of the code, providing for administrative
09:47:40 procedures and due process, providing an effective date.
09:47:44 >>: I have a second by Mr. Suarez.
09:47:49 Conversation on this ordinance.
09:47:50 Mr. Reddick.
09:47:51 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
09:47:56 Anyone from TPD to speak to this?
09:47:59 >> John Bennett, assistant chief of operations.
09:48:06 >>FRANK REDDICK: I have a few questions four.
09:48:09 One, we heard passionate pleas from those who spoke this
09:48:18 And if this ordinance were to take place, are there going to
09:48:23 be any type of promotion activities to inform, public
09:48:28 relations activities to say this ordinance will go into
09:48:32 place, and normally you see billboards or something in place
09:48:38 in the community, throughout the city, in these locations
09:48:41 informing the public that as a warning, that this will take
09:48:46 Will this type of education or promotion be had?
09:48:51 >> The public information office is very robust with the
09:48:54 media community.
09:48:55 They have already been engaging in conversations with the
09:48:58 media outlets.
09:48:59 Of course, this forum as well gets it out there.
09:49:04 That's typically the way that we have put it out.
09:49:09 Our activities in the field, any ordinance that we
09:49:16 So typically between the neighborhood, we have a very strong
09:49:22 partnership with the community as well as media outlets.
09:49:26 I think it would be handled pretty well.
09:49:28 >> And the second question, I think one of the last speakers
09:49:31 spoke about I understand the fees that are collected from
09:49:35 this will go into a trust fund for TPD to do some things,
09:49:40 other things.
09:49:43 Are you going to look at how this can promote this person
09:49:51 who spoke earlier, when those who are -- will that be taken
09:50:02 into consideration?
09:50:02 >> On a technical basis, I should probably introduce our
09:50:08 adviser Kirby Rainsberger.
09:50:14 Before I do that, I would like to thank Chairman Miranda for
09:50:16 allowing us to actually bring on an item using the law
09:50:19 enforcement trust fund in association from the mayor's
09:50:23 office and the chief and the community that lose long talked
09:50:29 about earlier so that is for that specific question, I will
09:50:32 have our legal adviser come up.
09:50:34 >> Kirby Rainsberger with the legal department.
09:50:39 Actually, the money has not been directed to any particular
09:50:44 So at this point anything collected would go into the
09:50:46 general fund.
09:50:46 >>FRANK REDDICK: I was informed by Chief Castor that it
09:50:54 would go into a trust fund to be utilized for express
09:50:58 >> I can't explain the source of the miscommunication, but
09:51:06 right now the ordinance does not direct the funds to any
09:51:09 particular account, and accordingly it would go to the
09:51:12 general fund unless council sees fit to do otherwise.
09:51:14 >>FRANK REDDICK: Okay.
09:51:17 Well, the last comment, Mr. Chair, is that I definitely will
09:51:21 not want to see it go into the general fund that can be used
09:51:25 for other intended purposes.
09:51:29 I think if you are going collect those fees, I hope it would
09:51:32 be placed into a law enforcement fund and it can be used for
09:51:36 providing back to the community versus going to the general
09:51:42 fund where it's utilized for a variety of purposes so if you
09:51:47 are not including this ordinance, I hope that consideration
09:51:51 will be given to the request.
09:51:53 That's all I have, Mr. Chairman.
09:51:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:51:57 Ms. Capin, then Ms. Mulhern.
09:52:01 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
09:52:01 Along that same vein as to the funds that are being
09:52:05 collected, one of the things I was thinking of, I also got
09:52:11 the same impression from Chief Castor when I spoke to her,
09:52:15 but now that you mention that it is -- or right now it is a
09:52:19 general fund, that if it could be used for other public
09:52:24 safety like sidewalks and code enforcement, which is
09:52:31 definitely public safety, that would be something that we
09:52:38 direly need in this city.
09:52:40 We can build a lot of sidewalks with that money.
09:52:44 And, again, you know, I understand that no one wants the
09:52:50 impression out there that our police officers are out there
09:52:56 looking for funds to put into the coffers of the law
09:53:04 enforcement, and that impression does come up when moneys
09:53:08 specifically goes to a specific -- the people that are
09:53:13 enforcing it are the benefactors.
09:53:15 Therefore, I really would like to avoid that.
09:53:18 But I understand that again these needs are there.
09:53:24 So I would like to bring out that sidewalks, code
09:53:30 enforcement, that if these moneys could be used for any
09:53:35 specific areas, and being that it's going to general funds,
09:53:40 that does not go to specific -- to specific areas.
09:53:50 It just goes into the general fund.
09:53:52 And that hasn't changed.
09:53:54 That is exactly where it's going.
09:53:55 >> At the present time, that's how it's set up, yes, ma'am.
09:54:02 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Okay.
09:54:02 And Chief Bennett, you stated that the law enforcement that
09:54:13 your department is open to, where and how these moneys are
09:54:17 to be spent.
09:54:18 Is that correct?
09:54:20 >> What I was citing was the law enforcement trust fund is
09:54:26 an enforcement mechanism.
09:54:27 Typically, for example, the walk-on request today to use
09:54:30 those funds is going back into the community.
09:54:33 That's part of the enforcement package.
09:54:36 It doesn't go to other things except to help enforce
09:54:40 additional things for the community's sake.
09:54:43 So, you know, by going to the general fund I would think
09:54:47 that the city administration and council would come together
09:54:52 and know these funds exist and then place them in the
09:54:54 community as you see fit.
09:54:57 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:55:00 I have a few questions, and one of them was based on, I
09:55:05 think, this might be for Mr. Rainsberger, a comment that
09:55:09 someone made.
09:55:10 Are we now -- are we impounding vehicles now, based on
09:55:21 solicitation of prostitution?
09:55:24 We are already doing that?
09:55:29 >> There's a long story that goes with this issue.
09:55:35 The short answer to that question is, if a John is arrested,
09:55:40 typically their vehicle would be impounded.
09:55:43 It would be towed to the police department impound lot,
09:55:46 available to them for immediate release upon payment of the
09:55:51 towing and storage charges, and normally they would pick the
09:55:55 vehicle up within 24 hours and pay less than $150 for
09:56:03 >> So we are adding a $500 penalty, and requiring -- they
09:56:12 can't -- if they pay the $500, do they get it back?
09:56:19 >> Essentially, yes, ma'am.
09:56:21 Let me point out, though, that if this is not creating a new
09:56:26 criminal or even a civil infraction.
09:56:30 It's not creating a new criminal offense.
09:56:33 So we talk about notifying the public.
09:56:37 We are talking about notifying the public of items or deeds
09:56:41 that are already criminal acts under Florida law.
09:56:45 This is an enhancement and a certain enhancement of a
09:56:50 penalty attached to acts that are already criminal acts
09:56:53 under Florida law.
09:56:54 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay, so, right, but currently you don't
09:57:01 have to pay -- really the big change is the $500 fee?
09:57:08 >> And the certainty of its application, yes, ma'am.
09:57:10 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
09:57:13 So the other question I have, and the language in the
09:57:23 ordinance concerns me, too, that a person who -- anyone who
09:57:27 has any ownership of the vehicle becomes liable, sound like.
09:57:34 Is that the certainty you are talking about?
09:57:38 Because, for instance, a woman whose partner, husband, or,
09:57:47 you know, partner co-owns the vehicle, has no idea, would
09:57:56 then be responsible.
09:57:57 So someone who is not in any way guilty or suspected to be
09:58:03 guilty of a crime is going to be without a car if they don't
09:58:10 have $500.
09:58:12 >> No, ma'am.
09:58:13 We went to great pains to include what is called an innocent
09:58:17 owner defense in the ordinance, and actually that will be
09:58:20 handled administratively in my office, and it is in fact
09:58:24 handled that way with respect to forfeiture cases, when a
09:58:30 spouse who is a co-owner of the vehicle has no reason to
09:58:33 know that her significant other, if you will, would engage
09:58:40 in this type of activity.
09:58:41 The vehicle is not assessed the $500.
09:58:45 >> Okay, so it happens on a Saturday night, or a Friday
09:58:51 night, and suddenly the family has no car, and they have
09:58:58 to -- they are going to be able to come to your office and
09:59:05 administratively deal with it?
09:59:08 Or wait for the hearing?
09:59:10 >> They will be able to call Monday morning, speak with a
09:59:13 detective who will obtain the reports of the incident,
09:59:18 determine that that person is in fact an innocent owner, by
09:59:22 noon Monday that vehicle will be released.
09:59:25 And it sound like a cumbersome procedure, but it happens in
09:59:30 my office meantimes a day with respect to vehicles that are
09:59:35 taken in forfeiture, the same kind of innocent owner applies
09:59:41 in forfeiture cases where the vehicle is subject not only to
09:59:44 seizure but to complete loss, forfeiture to the city, in the
09:59:49 event that it was used in a felony criminal activity as
09:59:53 distinct from what we are talking about here, that that
09:59:58 innocent owner calls my office, the detectives, that
10:00:05 situation, a very minimal investigation is done, and that
10:00:08 vehicle is quickly released.
10:00:11 You would be surprised how quickly.
10:00:20 Disciplining, punishing, penalizing an innocent owner or the
10:00:26 >>MARY MULHERN: The perception from a lot of neighbors who
10:00:31 were here is that that's really the affect of this
10:00:37 ordinance, the intent.
10:00:41 I heard people say that.
10:00:42 I'm not sure who, but somebody said that.
10:00:44 >> Two things.
10:00:49 Number one is, you get one shot as an innocent owner.
10:00:54 Because then you are all on notice that your significant
10:00:59 other, the co-owner of the vehicle is trying to commit these
10:01:05 types offenses so you get one shot as an innocent owner.
10:01:08 After that you are no longer innocent.
10:01:09 Now this person has been arrested, this person has engaged
10:01:13 in prostitution related --
10:01:15 >> You are not guilty because your spouse -- your partner,
10:01:19 co-owner, because you know that they did something.
10:01:22 That makes you guilty?
10:01:24 >> I'm talking about the vehicle will be released the first
10:01:28 time, the $500 would not be assessed.
10:01:34 If it is seized again, a completely different occasion
10:01:38 involving the same individual, and that co-owner is still on
10:01:41 the title, that co-owner is no longer innocent.
10:01:45 That co-owner now knows the other person on the title of
10:01:51 that vehicle has been arrested engaging in this type of
10:01:55 >>MARY MULHERN: Doesn't that sound like due process to me,
10:02:01 but you are saying someone is not innocent because they --
10:02:10 they aren't the individual that's committing a crime.
10:02:12 >> It's not so much that they commit the crime.
10:02:15 It's that the offense of innocent owner is lost to them when
10:02:20 they are no longer an innocent owner, when they are in a
10:02:24 longer innocent.
10:02:25 They now know this person who also owns the car is engaging
10:02:30 in this type of activity, they should take steps to either
10:02:35 sell the vehicle as a co-owner has the right to do, remove
10:02:39 their name from the title as the co-owner has the right to
10:02:43 do, put the car exclusively in the name of someone else who
10:02:50 is again an innocent owner, but they cannot thereafter
10:02:55 claim, "gee, I didn't know that my significant other was
10:03:00 engaging in prostitution offenses."
10:03:03 >>MARY MULHERN: It's a big price to pay for the fact that
10:03:10 your partner has bad habits.
10:03:12 I don't know.
10:03:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Suarez.
10:03:17 I want to make sure I pronounce your name right.
10:03:20 Mr. Suarez.
10:03:20 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you very much.
10:03:22 I appreciate that, Mr. Miranda.
10:03:24 I have a couple questions.
10:03:25 I understand what your argument is in terms of innocent
10:03:28 It's just like any other crime that's committed, either in
10:03:32 someone's home, or any other activity that the other partner
10:03:37 may not know about.
10:03:39 There are some forfeiture and some other legal ramifications
10:03:42 for the activity being done by that person in that property.
10:03:47 Same thing with the property that's being held in
10:03:51 impoundment, in this case a car.
10:03:53 Bless you.
10:03:54 A question.
10:03:54 In terms of any Constitutional challenges to this type of
10:03:58 ordinance in the past, I understand that have been
10:04:00 challenged before, and I think we had some issues with that
10:04:03 before, what has changed to make this a little bit of a
10:04:10 clearer ordinance going forward so that we are not
10:04:12 challenging not having to come back here again and rewrite
10:04:15 the ordinance?
10:04:16 >> Two things that changed as a result of south Florida
10:04:20 litigation, and the fact that we are still engaged in
10:04:23 litigation concerning a previous form of this ordinance,
10:04:28 which was codified as 1427.
10:04:31 It's been repealed now, but you can look at 1427, two
10:04:37 One is the standard of proof.
10:04:39 Previously, the applicable standard of proof was a
10:04:52 preponderance of the paragraph, that parallels change in the
10:04:54 standard of proof applicable in the forfeiture cases, and
10:04:57 which as you know involves the loss of sometimes property or
10:05:03 a vehicle with unlimited amount, hundreds of thousands of
10:05:10 dollars, entire law enforcement trust fund through that
10:05:13 So there was standard of proof, and notice to lienholders
10:05:17 was the other issue, and our ordinance did not provide for
10:05:21 an ordinance, for any notice to lienholders.
10:05:27 We didn't ever run into an issue, but that development came
10:05:32 out of the south Florida litigation, and is something that
10:05:35 we have adopted in the ordinance.
10:05:36 >>MIKE SUAREZ: You mentioned south Florida.
10:05:40 Is this decided law by the Supreme Court yet or is it still
10:05:43 ongoing, and is our district Court of Appeal also in the
10:05:50 same mind as the south Florida courts are?
10:05:53 Or is this going to come up?
10:05:55 I see you smiling.
10:05:56 I have a feeling that you are saying that you are not sure
10:05:59 Or are you?
10:06:00 >> Well, I would like to say I'm sure, but we are actually
10:06:03 at the Second DCA now on an issue having to do with
10:06:08 certification of the class.
10:06:09 So we haven't even reached, in the seven years of
10:06:13 litigation, we haven't reached the core issues.
10:06:16 On the other hand, the core issues have been decided and
10:06:19 have been to the Florida Supreme Court twice in the south
10:06:23 Florida litigation.
10:06:24 I have great confidence that the issue, the two issues that
10:06:27 I just talked to you, have been resolved definitively by the
10:06:32 Florida Supreme Court, and that we are not in that boat,
10:06:39 entirely we would not ultimately prevail on things like the
10:06:42 standard of proof.
10:06:45 We didn't have preponderance of evidence as the other
10:06:50 ordinances and they lost in the south Florida cases.
10:06:54 So we did not prevail on that particular aspect.
10:06:56 But we have changed that in the ordinances.
10:07:00 And changed it to what has already been approved in south
10:07:02 Florida cases.
10:07:04 >> Thank you.
10:07:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any other questions, council members?
10:07:09 Mr. Reddick.
10:07:09 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you.
10:07:11 Last question.
10:07:12 Since we are on first reading, I want to know what we need
10:07:20 to do today in first reading to make sure, since I had this
10:07:24 conversation with Chief Castor, that the fees collected will
10:07:29 be placed in the TPD trust fund and used for public safety
10:07:32 purposes only?
10:07:35 >> Not speaking for the assistant chief necessarily --
10:07:43 >>SAL TERRITO: Legal department.
10:07:44 If you do make the change it has to go back to first
10:07:47 That's a significant change.
10:07:48 Right flow it goes into the general fund and with your
10:07:51 policies and your negotiation with the administration you
10:07:53 can tell them that your preference is money be use Ford that
10:07:57 purpose but if it's passed on first reading and you want to
10:07:59 designate where the money goes, I think that's a significant
10:08:02 change that requires to the go back to first reading.
10:08:04 >> So we can make first reading answer get four votes --
10:08:10 >>SAL TERRITO: If you can get four votes today, then that
10:08:11 would be on the first reading and the second reading.
10:08:14 But if you change it in between, you are going to have to
10:08:17 come back on first reading.
10:08:18 >>FRANK REDDICK: Mr. Chairman, I want to make that motion.
10:08:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We have a motion by Mrs. Reddick,
10:08:28 seconded by Mrs. Montelione.
10:08:29 Discussion purposes on that motion?
10:08:33 We'll vote on that motion then.
10:08:38 Voice roll call.
10:08:39 >>MIKE SUAREZ: No.
10:08:48 >>YVONNE CAPIN: No.
10:08:50 >>FRANK REDDICK: Yes.
10:08:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No.
10:08:56 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
10:08:58 >>HARRY COHEN: No.
10:09:01 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Yes.
10:09:02 >>THE CLERK: Motion fails with Reddick, Montelione and
10:09:13 Mulhern voting no.
10:09:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:09:22 Voting yes.
10:09:23 Failed 4-3 with three individuals voting to support that
10:09:26 motion and four voting not to support that motion so it
10:09:30 Thank you very much.
10:09:33 Ms. Montelione.
10:09:34 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I apologize if this has been asked
10:09:38 already, but there was one piece of the notice provision
10:09:43 that I had concern with, and that was the section D where it
10:09:47 states unless hand delivered at the time of impoundment the
10:09:50 notice of impoundment shall be sent by certified mail to all
10:09:52 registered owners within seven business days.
10:09:59 If someone is in a car, and at the time of impoundment that
10:10:03 driver is handed the notice of impoundment, there's no other
10:10:10 provision, at least that I can see, that an owner will be
10:10:14 notified because you handed the notice of impoundment to the
10:10:18 person driving the car.
10:10:21 So I would like to see both happen, because the person
10:10:25 handed the notice can rip it up, throw it away, toss it over
10:10:29 his shoulder, whatever, and then the person who may be the
10:10:33 co-owner of the car, or another person with interest in a
10:10:36 car, won't ever know about it.
10:10:40 >> Excellent point.
10:10:43 The intent of the language is that unless that person
10:10:46 driving is the sole owner of the car, and when you hand it
10:10:51 to him, you have now essentially served all owners of the
10:10:59 Unless that's the situation, the driver gets one, and every
10:11:02 owner of the car gets noticed as well by certified mail.
10:11:05 That's the intent of that language.
10:11:07 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I guess what confused me was the
10:11:11 language of the owner of the car, and in here it talks
10:11:15 about -- I have it highlighted, but it talks about interest
10:11:22 in the car.
10:11:23 So is there -- in a lot of cases, even married couples don't
10:11:32 have insurance, title interest in a car, but they have
10:11:37 personal interest in a car.
10:11:41 For instance, it's an equal property state.
10:11:44 Even though a couple may be married, the asset, the car, may
10:11:49 not be titled in both names.
10:11:51 But when they separate, that car is split between the two
10:11:57 So it may not be a title interest in a car, but if it's the
10:12:00 only vehicle registered to that household, the spouse often
10:12:05 relies on that vehicle.
10:12:07 So if that is by some case taken away, there is a person who
10:12:12 will not be able to have the advantages of having the
10:12:16 vehicle and never know about it because they weren't
10:12:20 officially titled.
10:12:21 >> I understand your concern, and it's a legitimate one.
10:12:28 The law in the State of Florida is that if you are not on
10:12:30 the title, you don't have an ownership interest in that
10:12:36 Your name has to be on the title.
10:12:40 And the same is true with liens.
10:12:44 You may have a lien on that vehicle.
10:12:46 You don't register that lien with the department of motor
10:12:49 vehicles, that lien is a nullity.
10:12:51 It may be completely ignored.
10:12:53 So the person we are noticing is the person who owns the
10:12:57 vehicle, has the legal ability to transfer ownership of that
10:13:01 vehicle anytime they want without consultation with any
10:13:05 other person.
10:13:07 The situation we are trying to address by that language is
10:13:09 the situation where the driver may have just purchased the
10:13:13 vehicle, and may have a title in the vehicle.
10:13:17 This happens in forfeiture situation, not a lot but
10:13:21 They may have the title to the vehicle signed by a previous
10:13:27 The person driving it is technically not the owner of the
10:13:31 vehicle because the title name hasn't been changed with the
10:13:35 state, but they are the beneficial owner of the vehicle for
10:13:38 practical everyday purposes, they are the owner.
10:13:42 We are trying to reach that situation as well, to reach
10:13:45 everybody who has a legal interest in the vehicle, a legal
10:13:49 interest, not necessarily a practical one.
10:13:54 You would have us taking that other scenario to its
10:13:57 conclusion, notifying the children, for example, who rely on
10:14:00 that vehicle to get to school.
10:14:02 Even adult children who may drive the vehicle, and requiring
10:14:06 us to notify all those people who may have some kind of
10:14:10 beneficial use of the vehicle, it's virtually impossible.
10:14:16 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Well, I might suggest that the letter,
10:14:18 the certified letter, go to the address that the legal is
10:14:24 registered to, so that way, whether or not the spouse or
10:14:28 significant other has a title interest in the vehicle, the
10:14:34 vehicle is registered to that address, and whoever is in the
10:14:39 home or located at that address would then be notified.
10:14:43 >> Exactly right.
10:14:45 That's exactly what we'll do.
10:14:46 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Well, but that's only if the -- if the
10:14:52 certified letter is mailed to another owner.
10:14:56 Am I reading that right?
10:14:57 So you are going to I know any of the ordinance of the
10:15:00 vehicle, but what I'm saying is that whether or not there is
10:15:04 another owner, this one sole owner and you hand deliver the
10:15:09 notice to that person, when the car is impounded, when the
10:15:11 vehicle is impounded, does not -- there's not going to be
10:15:15 another notice to the address.
10:15:17 That's your sole notice.
10:15:18 You are handing it to the person in the vehicle.
10:15:21 What I'm saying is that a copy of that should be sent to the
10:15:26 address where the vehicle is registered so that whoever is
10:15:32 residing at that residence, at that address, is going to be
10:15:36 notified, and then have the benefit of being able to, you
10:15:39 know, show up and get the car out of impound because they
10:15:42 may need it, like you said, they may have children who are
10:15:47 trying to get to HCC or UT or USF who are relying on that,
10:15:53 very and if they don't have the benefit of that vehicle or
10:15:55 they may have a job they can't get to because of that, now
10:15:57 we have a scenario where there are people who are at risk of
10:16:01 losing their employment because you know we don't have
10:16:04 tremendous availability of public transportation to get to
10:16:07 their work, you know, their place of business, or to school
10:16:12 because no one ever knew that the car was impounded.
10:16:19 >>KIRBY RAINSBERGER: Again, I understand your concern, but
10:16:23 those people do not have a legal entitlement total vehicle.
10:16:29 Even if that person were noticed and came to the police
10:16:32 department with $500 in hand and wanted to retrieve the
10:16:36 vehicle, unless they were an innocent owner, they are not
10:16:40 getting it because they don't have a legal entitlement to
10:16:44 possession of the vehicle.
10:16:48 If they are not on the title, we can't turn that vehicle
10:16:50 over to them, no matter what level of proof they have that
10:16:57 they use the vehicle that is necessary for their job, we are
10:17:01 prohibited by law from giving them possession of a vehicle
10:17:05 to which they are not on the title.
10:17:07 >>LISA MONTELIONE: And that's part of what concerns me
10:17:11 because I know -- I may be extrapolating a bit far, but I
10:17:16 know in a lot of situations, and probably Councilwoman Capin
10:17:19 can attest to this being on the board of the spring, in many
10:17:23 instances where there is domestic violence or there is some
10:17:25 control over the spouse or significant other, they are not
10:17:30 going to have an ownership interest in that car because
10:17:34 that's a level of control that their spouse exerts over
10:17:39 So not being on the title, they are dependent in many ways
10:17:45 almost exclusively on the use of that vehicle, but they are
10:17:49 not going to be on the title.
10:17:52 So that's a concern to me.
10:17:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Just a second.
10:17:56 We have an ordinance.
10:17:58 It may not be perfect.
10:18:00 I don't think any ordinance is perfect.
10:18:02 I don't think we -- I am talking about myself -- can protect
10:18:06 the world on what foolish people do in foolish times.
10:18:09 If my name is not on that title, I have no problem.
10:18:13 It is a title holder.
10:18:15 I'm going to give you a quick story that has nothing to do
10:18:18 with this.
10:18:18 I got a call yesterday at the racetrack.
10:18:21 I am going to take my three minutes.
10:18:23 I gave everybody else an hour.
10:18:25 And a bank calls me and tells me, I have a lien on two
10:18:30 God bless you, I said.
10:18:31 And they said, but we want to release the papers up to.
10:18:34 I said, to me?
10:18:37 Whoever is on that title certificate is the legal owner.
10:18:40 Once you release it to us, that person is entitled 100
10:18:44 percent to do whatever they want to do.
10:18:47 Sell that horse for 100, you have a lien on it for 100,000,
10:18:50 that's your miss. Take I would not get involved in that
10:18:53 because it had to do with two parties outside personal
10:18:57 That's what we are getting involved here.
10:19:00 Outside personal problems of individuals that we can't
10:19:03 control the individual.
10:19:04 That's the only reason I brought that up.
10:19:06 Now, I have heard from neighborhood associations throughout
10:19:10 the city.
10:19:13 There were other council members here at that time that
10:19:17 walked, like I did, the neighborhoods, two, three o'clock in
10:19:22 the morning, but they were transvestites.
10:19:24 They looked like linebackers with uniforms on.
10:19:27 Big, ugly.
10:19:28 I'll put it that way.
10:19:29 Not because you are big, you are ugly, they were just ugly
10:19:32 because they looked like they had uniforms.
10:19:34 And I'm trying to tell myself, and those were Rose Ferlita
10:19:40 and Mayor Bob Buckhorn.
10:19:44 So I'm saying either it's applicable to make changes, and
10:19:47 the only reason we are here is because the courts threw it
10:19:50 out due to the language of the writing of that law, from
10:19:52 what you two gentlemen explained to us, that language has
10:19:55 been redone, recalculated, resurfaced, to meet the intent of
10:20:00 the law.
10:20:02 Is it going to be upheld?
10:20:04 Heaven only knows.
10:20:06 Once it goes to court, I don't care how anything is written.
10:20:10 Heaven only knows what's going to happen.
10:20:12 You can't tell me what the court is going to do because you
10:20:15 are not the judge.
10:20:17 The chief can't tell me what the court is going to do
10:20:19 because he's not the judge.
10:20:20 So that presentation that we had today, and with council
10:20:26 permission, I do have a motion by Mr. Cohen, second by Mr.
10:20:32 Suarez on item number 4.
10:20:33 I call for the vote.
10:20:36 Ms. Mulhern.
10:20:37 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want to say I am not going to
10:20:41 support it, that I feel for the neighborhoods.
10:20:45 I know how difficult it is for you, and I feel like we need
10:20:53 to find solutions to clean up your neighborhood, but I can't
10:20:56 support this for several reasons have been.
10:21:02 And Councilwoman Montelione pointed out some other issues.
10:21:06 You know, on 60 minutes the other night, there was a segment
10:21:10 about central Florida, and how many families are living in
10:21:13 their cars.
10:21:15 And we not only have people who are out of their homes, we
10:21:20 have people living in cars, we have, you know, innocent
10:21:23 people who -- people are lucky if they have one car to their
10:21:28 family right now.
10:21:29 So I feel like the timing for this just is not great.
10:21:35 To hear from the attorney that our current ordinance is
10:21:38 still in litigation, I just think the timing is wrong and I
10:21:42 just don't think we should be punishing individuals who have
10:21:47 nothing to do with the crime.
10:21:49 And punishing them before there's been even a hearing for
10:21:57 the offender.
10:21:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay, I have a motion --
10:22:02 >>MARY MULHERN: If it looks bicycle like between first and
10:22:05 second reading some of my concerns could be addressed, if
10:22:08 possible I could support it then.
10:22:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Cohen, a second by
10:22:11 Mr. Suarez.
10:22:12 Further discussion on the motion?
10:22:14 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
10:22:17 Opposed, nay.
10:22:17 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern voting no.
10:22:21 Second reading and adoption will be held on December
10:22:23 15th at 9:30 a.m.
10:22:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: December 15th at 9:30. And chief,
10:22:29 aid discussion with your department yesterday regarding an
10:22:38 >> Thank you.
10:22:39 On behalf of the chief, and the mayor and the
10:22:41 administration, and with approval of council, requesting the
10:22:45 opportunity, $25,000 potentially from our law enforcement
10:22:50 trust fund for a community gun buyback opportunity to assist
10:22:55 with the violence that we have seen recently in East Tampa.
10:22:58 So we would appreciate that opportunity.
10:23:01 It's been in concert with the community, East Tampa, that
10:23:06 approached Chief Castor.
10:23:09 >> This is a very important issue.
10:23:11 I discussed it yesterday with the chief and I asked her if
10:23:13 she could bring it as a walk-on.
10:23:15 We are having violence all over, all over, not only in that
10:23:18 part of town but all over.
10:23:19 And we have got to make some dent, and some appreciation,
10:23:24 because when it doesn't affect you, you don't know what we
10:23:27 are talking about but this affects everybody because this is
10:23:30 our community.
10:23:30 I need a motion for that.
10:23:32 >>FRANK REDDICK: Move the request.
10:23:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a second by Mr. Cohen.
10:23:37 All in favor of the motion?
10:23:41 Motion passes unanimously. Thank you, council members, for
10:23:43 your support.
10:23:44 Thank you, achievement I appreciate it.
10:23:46 Keep that going.
10:23:50 Item number 51 an ordinance for first reading.
10:23:53 Mr. Cohen.
10:24:02 >>HARRY COHEN: (Off microphone) Item 4 being presented for
10:24:04 first reading consideration, an ordinance amending the Tampa
10:24:07 comprehensive plan, capital improvement element, by updating
10:24:07 the schedule of projects for fiscal year 2012 to fiscal year
10:24:07 2016 by updating the Florida Department of Transportation
10:24:17 work schedule for fiscal year 2012 through fiscal year 2016,
10:24:21 by updating the school board's work program for fiscal year
10:24:25 to 2012 through fiscal year 2016, providing for repeal of
10:24:28 all ordinances in conflict, providing for severability,
10:24:32 providing an effective date.
10:24:32 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Second.
10:24:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mr. Cohen, item number 5,
10:24:37 seconded by Mr. Suarez. Discussion by council members?
10:24:38 All in favor of the motion?
10:24:41 The Ayes have it unanimously.
10:24:43 >>THE CLERK: Second reading and adoption will be held on
10:24:46 December 15, 2011, at 9:30 a.m.
10:24:53 >> We go to committee reports. Public safety committee.
10:24:57 >>FRANK REDDICK: Move number 6 through 10.
10:25:04 >> [Motion Carried Unanimously]
10:25:05 >> Park, recreation, culture committees, 11 through 17.
10:25:09 >>MARY MULHERN: I move items 11 through 17.
10:25:12 >> Second.
10:25:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second by Mr. Cohen.
10:25:15 All in favor?
10:25:17 The Ayes have it unanimously.
10:25:19 Public Works Committee.
10:25:20 Mr. Mike Suarez, 18 through 29.
10:25:24 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I move 18 through 29.
10:25:27 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
10:25:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All in favor of the motion?
10:25:33 The Ayes have it unanimously. Finance Committee items 30 to
10:25:38 Mr. Harry Cohen.
10:25:40 >> Move 30 through 33.
10:25:42 >> Second by Mr. Suarez.
10:25:46 All in favor?
10:25:48 The Ayes have it unanimously.
10:25:49 Building zoning and preservation committees, item 34 through
10:25:53 Lisa Montelione.
10:25:54 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I move item 34 through 40.
10:25:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second by Mr. Cohen.
10:26:00 All in favor of that motion please indicate by saying aye.
10:26:03 Opposed, nay.
10:26:04 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:26:07 41 through 46, Yolie Capin.
10:26:12 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I move items 41 through 46.
10:26:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Seconded by Ms. Mulhern.
10:26:18 Further discussion of that motion?
10:26:20 All in favor?
10:26:24 The Ayes have it unanimously.
10:26:26 Now we go to public hearings.
10:26:28 They were scheduled for quasi-judicial proceedings on items
10:26:32 47 through 57.
10:26:40 All those to speak be sworn in. Anyone to speak on items 47
10:26:43 through 57, please rise so you can be sworn in.
10:26:45 (Oath administered by Clerk)
10:26:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It is 10:00 and I got a request by
10:27:09 council member on unfinished business reports on item 61.
10:27:15 She would like that report: I yield to Mrs. Capin.
10:27:22 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
10:27:22 I would like to continue this item to our workshop session
10:27:25 scheduled January 26th at 10 a.m. in order to have a
10:27:28 more comprehensive review of that ordinance that was passed
10:27:32 last year by the previous council.
10:27:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Seconded by Mr. Cohen.
10:27:38 All in favor of that motion?
10:27:41 The Ayes have it unanimously.
10:27:43 I need to open public hearings 47 through 57.
10:27:46 >> So moved.
10:27:47 >> Second.
10:27:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mr. Cohen, second by Mrs.
10:27:51 All in favor of that motion?
10:27:52 The Ayes have it unanimously.
10:27:54 Item 47 is open through 57.
10:28:00 Presenters on item 47.
10:28:09 Anyone here on the encroachment of the canopy of south
10:28:16 Florida, right-of-way known as Brorein Street?
10:28:20 Anyone here for that?
10:28:23 No one wants to speak on item 47?
10:28:28 I guess we all spoke out.
10:28:30 Mrs. Capin.
10:28:34 All right.
10:28:34 Any further discussion on item 47?
10:28:39 I need a motion to close.
10:28:41 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Motion to close.
10:28:44 >>FRANK REDDICK: Second.
10:28:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All in favor?
10:28:46 The Ayes have it unanimously.
10:28:49 Roll call.
10:28:51 I need a motion to pass.
10:28:54 Give to the Ms. Mulhern.
10:28:56 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance presented for second
10:29:02 reading and adoption, authorizing the installation and
10:29:05 maintenance of an encroachment proposed canopy by the
10:29:09 University of South Florida GS 1-SL-229-A Board of Trustees
10:29:15 over a portion of the right-of-way known as Brorein Street
10:29:20 as more particularly described herein subject to certain
10:29:23 terms covenants conditions and agreements as more
10:29:26 particularly described herein providing an effective date.
10:29:27 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Second.
10:29:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Roll call.
10:29:31 Vote and record.
10:29:31 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:29:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item number 48.
10:29:45 Any presenters for that?
10:29:47 >> This is the land development.
10:29:50 Plans have been certified.
10:29:52 I'm available if there are any questions.
10:29:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone who would like to speak on item
10:29:57 number 48 please come forward.
10:29:59 I see no one: I have a motion to close by Mr. Suarez,
10:30:02 seconded by Ms. Capin.
10:30:08 All in favor?
10:30:11 The Ayes have it unanimously.
10:30:12 Item 48 is closed.
10:30:14 Mr. Reddick, will you kindly take 48?
10:30:17 >>FRANK REDDICK: Move an ordinance presented for second
10:30:19 reading and adoption, an ordinance approving a special use
10:30:22 permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales, large venue on
10:30:25 premises only, and making lawful the sale of beverages
10:30:28 regardless of alcoholic content beer wine and liquor, for
10:30:32 consumption on that certain lot, plot or tract of land
10:30:35 located at 4202 east Fowler Avenue, Tampa, Florida, as more
10:30:39 particularly described in section 2 hereof providing for
10:30:42 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an effective
10:30:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Reddick, seconded
10:30:48 by Mrs. Mulhern.
10:30:50 Further discussion by council members?
10:30:51 Vote and record.
10:30:52 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:31:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item number 49.
10:31:02 >> Land Development Coordination.
10:31:08 Plans have been certified.
10:31:10 I'm available for any questions.
10:31:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Would anyone else care to speak on item
10:31:15 Please come forward.
10:31:16 I see no one.
10:31:17 I need a motion.
10:31:19 Motion to close by Ms. Montelione, second by Mr. Suarez.
10:31:22 All in favor of that motion?
10:31:24 Opposed, nay.
10:31:26 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:31:29 All right.
10:31:31 Vote -- oh, you have to read the ordinance.
10:31:33 Going so fast I forgot that.
10:31:35 It goes to Ms. Capin, item 49.
10:31:38 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I move an ordinance approving special use
10:31:40 permit S-2 for alcoholic beverage sales, restaurant on
10:31:44 premises only and making lawful the sale of beer and wine
10:31:47 for consumption with a restaurant business establishment on
10:31:49 that certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 4820
10:31:54 North Armenia Avenue, Tampa, Florida as more particularly
10:31:57 described in section 2 hereof providing for repeal of all
10:32:01 ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.
10:32:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mrs. Capin, second by
10:32:07 Mr. Suarez on item 49.
10:32:09 Vote and record.
10:32:11 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried.
10:32:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item 50.
10:32:20 Anyone in the audience to speak on item 50?
10:32:22 >> Land development.
10:32:25 Plans have been certified.
10:32:26 Staff is here to answer any questions.
10:32:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I don't know what you said but it sound
10:32:35 [ Laughter ]
10:32:36 Anyone in the audience to speak on item number 50?
10:32:38 I see no one.
10:32:39 >> Motion to close.
10:32:40 >> Second.
10:32:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: By Mr. Suarez, seconded by Mrs. Capin.
10:32:47 Motion to close.
10:32:48 >>MIKE SUAREZ: An ordinance for second reading and
10:32:51 adoption, an ordinance approving a special use permit S-2
10:32:53 for alcoholic beverage sales restaurant on premises only,
10:32:57 and making lawful the sale of beverages regardless of
10:32:59 alcoholic content, beer, wine and liquor, for consumption
10:33:02 with a restaurant business establishment on that certain
10:33:04 lot, plot or tract of land located at 2223 North Westshore
10:33:10 Boulevard, unit B-224, Tampa, Florida ad as more
10:33:13 particularly described in section 2 hereof, providing for
10:33:16 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an effective
10:33:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Suarez, second by
10:33:22 Mr. Cohen.
10:33:23 Vote and record.
10:33:23 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried.
10:33:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
10:33:31 Item number 51.
10:33:33 Anyone in the audience to speak on item number 51.
10:33:36 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land development.
10:33:40 Items number 51, 52, 54 and 55, 56, all require certified
10:33:48 site plans.
10:33:49 Those site plans were certified and provided to the clerk.
10:33:51 I'm available if you have any questions.
10:33:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:33:56 Who is the presenter of this ordinance, 51?
10:34:02 No one here?
10:34:07 Anyone in the audience care to speak on this item, item
10:34:10 number 51, 51.
10:34:13 I need a motion to close.
10:34:17 Motion by Mrs. Montelione, seconded by Mr. Suarez.
10:34:20 All in favor of that motion please indicate by saying aye.
10:34:23 Opposed, nay.
10:34:24 The Ayes have it unanimously.
10:34:25 Number 51, Mrs. Montelione.
10:34:27 >>LISA MONTELIONE: An ordinance rezoning property in the
10:34:32 general vicinity of 1003 West Platt street and 215 and 217
10:34:36 south Edison in the city of Tampa, Florida and more
10:34:39 particularly described in section 1 from zoning district
10:34:41 classifications PD planned development office, business
10:34:44 professional, to PD, planned development, office, business
10:34:47 professional and interim parking, providing an effective
10:34:51 For second reading.
10:34:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That motion is for adoption and second
10:34:55 I have a motion by Mrs. Montelione, second by Mr. Suarez.
10:34:59 All in favor of that motion please indicate by saying aye
10:35:01 and vote and record.
10:35:02 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:35:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item number 52.
10:35:12 Anyone -- who is the presenter of this ordinance?
10:35:24 All right.
10:35:24 Anyone in the audience care to speak on item number 52?
10:35:28 >> The applicant is here.
10:35:36 Ron Weaver, 408 Jackson street.
10:35:39 We appreciate your approval.
10:35:40 Thank you.
10:35:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any others in the audience care to speak
10:35:44 on this item, 52?
10:35:45 Need a motion.
10:35:47 Motion to close by Mr. Suarez, second by Mrs. Montelione.
10:35:50 All in favor?
10:35:51 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:35:53 Mr. Cohen, would you kindly take 52?
10:35:56 >>HARRY COHEN: I move an ordinance being presented for
10:35:58 second reading and adoption, an ordinance rezoning property
10:36:01 in the general vicinity of 4720 West Spruce Street in the
10:36:04 city of Tampa, Florida and more particularly described in
10:36:07 section 1 from zoning district classifications map-4
10:36:12 municipal airport to PD planned development, retail, bank
10:36:15 with drive-in window, restaurant, providing an effective
10:36:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mr. Cohen, second by Mr. Suarez
10:36:22 on 572.
10:36:22 Roll call vote.
10:36:25 And record.
10:36:25 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:36:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item number 53.
10:36:33 Anyone in the audience to speak on 53?
10:36:35 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land development.
10:36:38 Council, item number 53 is the Kimmins corporation.
10:36:42 This is the second reading.
10:36:43 The nature of the first reading was pretty intense hearing,
10:36:46 went through a lot of things.
10:36:47 I wanted to clear up an incorrect statement I made that
10:36:51 evening about the stacking height of the 90 feet.
10:36:53 That 09 feet in the code is for port operations only.
10:36:56 So the stacking limitation on this property would be
10:37:02 I did contact Mr. Grandoff concerning this after the
10:37:05 He's here.
10:37:06 He also agrees with the statement I am making before you
10:37:09 And I just wanted to clear that up.
10:37:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Grandoff can put that on the record.
10:37:16 Mr. Grandoff?
10:37:19 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: Good morning.
10:37:20 John Grandoff, attorney for Kimmins corporation.
10:37:22 I concur with Ms. Feeley's explanation to you this morning.
10:37:26 I request your approval on second reading.
10:37:30 >>MARY MULHERN: Ms. Feeley, so the stacking height --
10:37:36 maximum stack would be 40-foot.
10:37:38 >> In industrial heavy.
10:37:39 Okay, gotcha.
10:37:41 What is it right now under the PD that they have?
10:37:43 >> Under the PD it allows them the IH which is what we had
10:37:47 gone through that evening item by item so they would still
10:37:50 be permissible to 40 feet.
10:37:52 >>MARY MULHERN: Under the current zoning, it's 40 feet.
10:38:00 And under the change it would be 40 feet.
10:38:01 So that doesn't change.
10:38:02 >> Correct.
10:38:03 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
10:38:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any further discussion?
10:38:08 Anyone else in the audience care to speak on item number 53?
10:38:12 I see no one.
10:38:13 I need a motion to close.
10:38:15 I have a motion by Mrs. Capin, seconded by Mr. Cohen.
10:38:19 All in favor?
10:38:21 The Ayes have it unanimously.
10:38:25 Ms. Mulhern.
10:38:28 Well, pass?
10:38:29 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't want to read it.
10:38:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Reddick?
10:38:38 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:38:45 Number 53.
10:38:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Does Mr. Reddick intend to vote?
10:38:52 Then it would not be appropriate for him to move the
10:38:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Now I am going get confused.
10:38:59 My one brain cell I have working, we go to Mrs. Capin.
10:39:03 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
10:39:05 An ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity of
10:39:08 1916 and 19121 north 53rd street in the city of Tampa,
10:39:13 Florida and more particularly described in section 1 from
10:39:17 zoning district classification PD planned development,
10:39:20 recycling building and auto, to IH, industrial heavy,
10:39:25 providing an effective date.
10:39:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
10:39:31 I am going to change the laws of this council, one minute,
10:39:36 with consent of four council members.
10:39:38 I don't know how legally we can remove the word adoption
10:39:41 because once we pass it for second reading, you in essence
10:39:44 adopted it.
10:39:46 I'm not a judge.
10:39:54 Put that in the meeting that we are going to have, and tell
10:39:57 me a legal because thinks these things are not intent.
10:40:04 Not the intent what you have say.
10:40:06 I go back and I say adoption.
10:40:08 That's the first time I have been brought up and the last
10:40:11 time I have been brought up.
10:40:13 So Ms. Capin.
10:40:16 Add the word adoption, please?
10:40:18 >> Yes, sir.
10:40:19 >> Thank you very much.
10:40:20 Second by Mrs. Montelione on a close vote with Mr. Cohen.
10:40:23 Roll call vote.
10:40:24 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to say that after reviewing
10:40:32 the records from the last meeting, I am going to change my
10:40:34 vote, and based on the fact this change to heavy --
10:40:43 industrial heavy is the most intensive and begins to go
10:40:46 north of the railroad track where there is no industrial
10:40:49 heavy and there is residential within that community that is
10:40:54 very much opposed to this.
10:40:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:40:58 Vote and record.
10:40:58 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern and Reddick voting
10:41:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item 54.
10:41:11 Anyone here to speak on item 54?
10:41:14 Please come forward.
10:41:18 >>ANDREA ZELMAN: Fowler White, on behalf of the applicant.
10:41:20 We appreciate council's support at the first hearing and
10:41:23 hope you will vote for approval today.
10:41:26 We are happy to answer any questions.
10:41:28 Thank you.
10:41:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much and congratulations
10:41:30 on being selected one of the finest lawyers in the area.
10:41:33 I read that in the paper.
10:41:35 Item number 54.
10:41:36 Anyone else care to speak on that item?
10:41:39 Need a motion to close.
10:41:42 Motion by Mr. Suarez, second by Mrs. Montelione.
10:41:45 All in favor of the motion?
10:41:47 The Ayes have it unanimously.
10:41:49 Mr. Suarez.
10:41:50 >>MIKE SUAREZ: An ordinance being presented for second
10:41:53 reading and adoption.
10:41:54 An ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity of
10:41:57 4504, 4506, 4514, 4518 and 4522 West Spruce Street and 4501
10:42:08 and 4505 through 4521 West Chestnut Street in the city of
10:42:12 Tampa, Florida and more particularly described in section 1
10:42:16 from zoning district classifications RS-50 residential
10:42:19 single-family, CI commercial intensive and PD planned
10:42:23 development to PD planned development, residential,
10:42:25 multifamily, providing an effective date.
10:42:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Suarez, second by
10:42:30 Mr. Mulhern.
10:42:32 Vote and record.
10:42:32 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:42:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item 55.
10:42:52 >> Robert aberger, the representatives are present and we
10:43:02 request your approval.
10:43:04 >> Anyone to speak on item 55?
10:43:06 I see no one.
10:43:07 I need a motion to close.
10:43:08 Motion to close by Mrs. Montelione, second by Mrs. Capin.
10:43:12 All in favor?
10:43:14 The Ayes have it unanimously.
10:43:17 Ms. Montelione.
10:43:18 Item 55.
10:43:19 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I present an ordinance for second
10:43:23 reading and adoption, an ordinance rezoning property in the
10:43:26 general vicinity of 108, 114 and 204 South Florida Avenue,
10:43:31 406 and 601 east Cumberland Avenue, 103, 1050 and 209 south
10:43:36 Morgan street and 324 east Brorein Street in the city of
10:43:40 Tampa, Florida and more particularly described in section 1
10:43:42 from zoning district classifications CBD-2 central business
10:43:47 district, to CBD-2, central business district, office, hotel
10:43:51 and CBD uses providing an effective date.
10:43:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second by Ms. Capin.
10:43:57 Vote and record.
10:44:04 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:44:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item 56.
10:44:07 Anyone here for item 56?
10:44:09 >> My name is Greg Roth, board engineering, 2202 North
10:44:20 Westshore Boulevard, and I appreciate the majority of
10:44:25 approval and here to answer any questions that may arise.
10:44:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone else to speak on item number 56?
10:44:33 I see no one.
10:44:34 I need a motion to close.
10:44:36 >>HARRY COHEN: Notion close.
10:44:38 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Second.
10:44:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All in favor?
10:44:40 The Ayes have it unanimously.
10:44:42 Mr. Cohen, would you kindly take number 56?
10:44:44 >>HARRY COHEN: Move an ordinance being presented for second
10:44:47 reading and adoption, an ordinance rezoning property in the
10:44:49 general vicinity of 4005 South Dale Mabry Highway in the
10:44:53 city of Tampa, Florida and more particularly described in
10:44:56 section 1 from zoning district classification CG commercial
10:45:00 general to PD planned development, bank with drive-in
10:45:04 window, providing an effective date.
10:45:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Cohen, seconded by
10:45:08 Mr. Suarez.
10:45:09 Discussion of that motion?
10:45:10 All in favor of the motion indicate by saying aye.
10:45:12 Opposed, nay.
10:45:13 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:45:14 Vote and record.
10:45:14 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:45:25 >> Items 57.
10:45:30 Anyone here to present this?
10:45:36 Would anyone like to speak on item 57?
10:45:38 Please come forward.
10:45:39 I see no one.
10:45:40 I need a motion to close.
10:45:44 Motion by Mrs. Montelione, second by Mr. Cohen.
10:45:46 All in favor of the motion to close?
10:45:50 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:45:52 Mrs. Mulhern, would you take item 57, please?
10:45:54 >> I move an ordinance upon second reading for adoption, an
10:46:01 ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity of 30607
10:46:06 West Swann Avenue in the city of Tampa, Florida and more
10:46:10 particularly described in section 1 from zoning district
10:46:12 classification PD planned development, veterinary hospital,
10:46:16 to CG, commercial general, providing an effective date.
10:46:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion by Mrs. Mulhern, seconded by Mr.
10:46:26 Vote and record.
10:46:30 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried.
10:46:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We now go to items, public hearings that
10:46:36 are non-quasi-judicial proceedings.
10:46:44 >>THE CLERK: Item 59 would be a quasi-
10:46:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Okay, I'm sorry.
10:46:50 Open 58 and 59.
10:46:52 I have a motion by Mrs. Montelione, seconded by Mr. Reddick.
10:46:56 All in favor of that?
10:46:58 The Ayes have it unanimously.
10:47:01 All those who care to speak on item 58 on the public
10:47:03 hearing, or resolution, please come forward.
10:47:08 I see no one.
10:47:11 Need a motion to close.
10:47:14 Motion by Mrs. Capin, second by Mrs. Mulhern.
10:47:17 All in favor of that motion please indicate by saying aye.
10:47:20 If you want to speak on 58.
10:47:25 Hold the vote.
10:47:25 >> Sorry, I apologize.
10:47:28 Spencer Kass representing a -- sending a letter to council
10:47:32 representing a number of property owners.
10:47:36 And the Virginia park association.
10:47:38 We have a lot of questions involving 58.
10:47:40 We are asking that council take no action on item 58 so we
10:47:43 can have a full and comprehensive discussion about exactly
10:47:46 what's happening and how the system is going to work.
10:47:51 I didn't see anything in writing so it won't affect
10:47:54 commercial properties so can take that out.
10:47:59 It can have a bill of a thousand a month, 12,000 a year, to
10:48:04 be paid by the property owners instead of the tenant.
10:48:06 On the residential side we would like to know first how is
10:48:08 this going to work for our seniors who are on fixed incomes?
10:48:12 If you are on fixed income, you get a Social Security check,
10:48:15 you have to come up with all the money at the beginning of
10:48:16 the year.
10:48:19 Does the city intend on using tax deeds if you don't paper
10:48:22 your bill?
10:48:23 Now all of a sudden you can be paying up to 18% interest.
10:48:27 Somebody could foreclosure on your house because you didn't
10:48:29 pay your trash bill?
10:48:31 We would like to see a map currently where the bills aren't
10:48:33 being paid, how many in East Tampa aren't being paid, how
10:48:35 many in West Tampa aren't being paid?
10:48:38 See who this is going to push immediately into some kind of
10:48:43 If we are not using tax deeds as a methods of collection,
10:48:47 then why isn't the City of Tampa handling this on the water
10:48:53 Why not put it on the January water bill as an annual charge
10:48:56 and let people pay it that way?
10:48:58 These are just some of the very basic starting questions.
10:49:00 You will see in the letter that I sent to you a much more
10:49:04 complete list of questions and issues.
10:49:07 We would like council to sit down, give us the answers to
10:49:10 all of these buff send something over to the tax assessors
10:49:17 I'm sure nobody on council especially during this holiday
10:49:20 season wants to hear about some senior citizen whose house
10:49:24 is being taken away from them because they didn't pay a
10:49:27 trash bill.
10:49:27 Now there's something nothing you can do about it once it's
10:49:31 in somebody else's hands.
10:49:32 We would like to you sit down, have a comprehensive
10:49:35 I understand -- have a workshop.
10:49:40 Understand how this is going to work.
10:49:42 And they should have done this earlier.
10:49:47 We could have this discussion anytime.
10:49:50 You want to delay it to after lunch, I'll stay here, one
10:49:54 council member, send staff in, at least understand what we
10:49:57 are doing before we do it.
10:49:58 I know it's the administration's position that ultimately,
10:50:01 well, you will pass this, you will have other hearings down
10:50:03 the road.
10:50:04 I like to get the information first, then we can have a vote
10:50:07 on what we are going to do. Let's not just keep on going
10:50:09 step by step and say, well, we spent a lot of staff hours, a
10:50:13 lot of time on this.
10:50:15 So respectfully, you have my letter, you have my objections.
10:50:21 You also have another copy, Mr. Shelby, the clerk for the
10:50:25 Thank you and happy holiday.
10:50:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone else care to speak on this item?
10:50:30 >> Susan Long, East Broad Street.
10:50:32 I live in a neighborhood that is very mixed income.
10:50:38 I have had several of my elderly neighbors say if they do
10:50:40 that I am not going to be able to pay my property taxes and
10:50:43 I am going lose my house.
10:50:45 I have had other people who say, look, I can pay my bill,
10:50:50 but I can't pay it all at once.
10:50:53 If you increase my mortgage payments that much, then I no
10:50:55 longer can make my mortgage payment every month in the first
10:51:01 ten days of the month.
10:51:03 Now I am in arrears, now they are going to foreclosure and I
10:51:06 am going to be in trouble.
10:51:07 If you get one the first ten days, pay the other one when
10:51:11 the other paycheck comes in and I'm okay.
10:51:13 When you pile them all together you are going to kill me.
10:51:16 Those are the concerns over the last week.
10:51:22 Please reconsider.
10:51:23 This I think we need to have a lot of discussion.
10:51:27 Mr. KASS's statement that we need to have discussion before
10:51:31 we pass this.
10:51:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:51:33 Anyone else in the audience care to speak on this item, item
10:51:39 Let me just say that this is a process because of a deadline
10:51:44 in January that we have to tell the tax collector what may
10:51:47 or may not be coming, but we have to notice the tax
10:51:53 It's not about the discussion of the ordinance today,
10:51:56 because, as I understand it, the ordinance is not here.
10:52:01 It's a resolution.
10:52:06 What that means is at that time, when it comes back, in
10:52:11 resolution form or ordinance form, specifically it will all
10:52:14 be discussed at that time.
10:52:14 But furthermore, when you mention water and ad valorem
10:52:19 taxation, it's like oranges and grapes.
10:52:21 You have one hell of a drink when you put them together, but
10:52:25 they don't match because they taste individually.
10:52:28 What it is is that the water bill fluctuates depending on
10:52:32 And you can say that your tax bill fluctuates, also, on the
10:52:38 ad valorem assessment from time to time.
10:52:44 And it's not a reasonable comparison to compare water and
10:52:49 ad valorem taxes because they don't mix.
10:52:52 But that's my say on it.
10:52:55 I'm open to suggestions.
10:52:57 Any council members?
10:52:58 Mrs. Montelione?
10:53:00 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
10:53:01 When this originally came up, there were a lot of questions
10:53:06 that I had.
10:53:07 And I brought those questions up.
10:53:09 And I'm not sure if either of our speakers today were here
10:53:15 during the first discussion when this was brought forward by
10:53:19 Mr. Daignault and there is a lot to be said for
10:53:26 communication to the public about this ordinance -- or this
10:53:32 resolution, excuse me.
10:53:34 The communication to the public about how this is going to
10:53:39 work, how it's going to affect, I brought up several times
10:53:43 what the impacts were going to be to individuals on fixed
10:53:48 incomes as was mentioned this morning, and to businesses and
10:53:51 property owners and tenants of those businesses.
10:53:56 And I think at the first reading of this resolution would
10:54:04 probably answer some of those questions, because those were
10:54:07 all things that were brought up.
10:54:11 The property tax collector does have options for payments of
10:54:18 property taxes, so that those bills could be spread out over
10:54:23 a period of time.
10:54:24 It's a system that the tax collector has had in place ever
10:54:28 since I have been in Hillsborough County.
10:54:33 It's an easy process.
10:54:34 You can apply for a payment plan for your property taxes and
10:54:38 spread that payment out over time, originally with your
10:54:49 house or anything of that nature.
10:54:50 So if you can't afford to come up with the property taxes
10:54:53 all at once, there's options for you.
10:54:56 There is more discussion as chair Miranda has pointed out.
10:55:00 We do bring this for ordinance.
10:55:03 We can have discussions of the resolution now, Mr. Daignault
10:55:13 or anyone else that's here, Ms. Ms. Little, would like to
10:55:17 clarify, because I am a big fan of discussion and
10:55:20 dissemination of information to the public.
10:55:22 So there were a few things brought up just now, and in Mr.
10:55:28 KASS's letter that were discussed before so maybe you could
10:55:31 address a couple of those points, Mr. Daignault, briefly?
10:55:35 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Administrator for public works, utility
10:55:39 Oh, boy.
10:55:40 I guess I would need the question to maybe provide an
10:55:45 One thing, though, that folks may find beneficial -- and I
10:55:49 know it's not a lot -- but if they do pay their property
10:55:52 taxes sooner on the tax side period rather than later, they
10:55:57 would still get the reductions, the savings for paying
10:56:06 >> Even with the payment plan with the tax collector's
10:56:08 office you still get the benefit of a degree of discount,
10:56:11 even though you are paying over time, it has monthly payment
10:56:15 to the tax collector's office there is still a degree of
10:56:18 discounted the way the system works.
10:56:19 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Correct.
10:56:23 This does not apply to commercial customers.
10:56:25 This is residential only.
10:56:27 That was one of the questions that was brought up earlier.
10:56:29 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So one of the concerns that was brought
10:56:37 up by Mr. Kass, a business that is leasing an office space,
10:56:41 or leasing a restaurant space that has a trash collection
10:56:46 bill of $1,000 a month, they would not be impact, they would
10:56:49 still be billed individually?
10:56:54 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Correct.
10:56:54 One of the things that's also been stated is that is new,
10:57:04 this issue with the solid waste department has been an issue
10:57:06 that has been brought up meantimes during the budget
10:57:10 You may recall that your citizens advisory committee on the
10:57:14 budget addressed the issue of moving this onto the tax bill.
10:57:18 That was a recommendation they made in City Council.
10:57:23 So through budget process, and other meetings that we have
10:57:26 had, we believe that we brought this issue up sufficiently
10:57:30 to the council and to the public.
10:57:33 >>LISA MONTELIONE: The biggest, I think, concern raised --
10:57:39 and this was from Mr. Kass' letter and Mrs. Long also
10:57:42 mentioned this -- says -- and I am going short ten statement
10:57:46 it has here -- but tax deeds will be used to collect unpaid
10:57:49 bills and that people could lose their homes for not paying
10:57:53 a trash bill.
10:57:54 Is that an accurate statement, sir?
10:57:57 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Well, I don't believe it's an accurate
10:57:59 statement even more than people could lose their homes for
10:58:04 not paying the solid waste bill.
10:58:06 I think when you pay your tax bill you pay the entire.
10:58:12 You are not saying I am paying for SWFWMD but not paying for
10:58:15 the city charge.
10:58:17 You pay whatever you pay towards the entire bill.
10:58:21 So I don't think people are going to write in a check and
10:58:25 saying I'm paying all my taxes except solid waste.
10:58:30 The tax collector, I believe, has to collect all of the tax.
10:58:33 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I guess what they are saying is this
10:58:35 will increase the tax bill by adding the solid waste fee,
10:58:39 and then that would make the tax bill not affordable, and
10:58:44 they wouldn't pay their tax bill and then run the risk of it
10:58:49 going to tax deed, which that only happens from my
10:58:55 understanding of the property tax collection system, after
10:58:58 three years.
10:58:59 That it would go unpaid for three years, the tax deed is
10:59:02 issued every year for three years.
10:59:05 Those get paid, so we would collect as the school board does
10:59:11 and as does any other special assessment by the sale of that
10:59:17 tax deed, but if after three years those taxes do not get
10:59:21 paid, then it would you go through the foreclosure.
10:59:25 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Correct.
10:59:27 And quite honestly, I think that time period provides people
10:59:31 who are having difficulty some grace period, a two or
10:59:37 three-year period before it actually comes to that
10:59:40 That's an advantage, I think, to anyone in that situation.
10:59:43 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I think in that first discussion we
10:59:47 discussed one of the other points of his letter, point
10:59:49 number 5, and says solid waste -- properties that do not use
10:59:56 solid waste service conditions excluded, and that was
10:59:59 something that I had brought up, because we have a lot of
11:00:03 builders or, at that time, had a lost builders that had
11:00:08 vacant properties, and it's an additional burden for them to
11:00:14 pay a solid waste assessment when they don't have any trash
11:00:17 being picked up, because the property is vacant.
11:00:21 And you and I had lengthy discussions about that.
11:00:24 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Sure.
11:00:26 If it's a new development or area that's never been
11:00:29 developed before and it's a new construction, to begin their
11:00:34 facility service, there won't be a charge.
11:00:36 But once that property is developed, and has a CO, then
11:00:40 there be utility charges as well as charges for solid waste.
11:00:46 And again I'm sorry -- Mrs. Montelione's district, but this
11:00:49 is the way it is currently in the New Tampa area under the
11:00:52 county administration.
11:00:53 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So Hillsborough County has been doing
11:00:58 this for a number of years and New Tampa is under
11:01:02 Hillsborough County solid waste collection, so --
11:01:05 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Correct.
11:01:06 >>LISA MONTELIONE: The system has worked under Hillsborough
11:01:08 County for how many years?
11:01:10 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: I think it's about 19 -- I am going say
11:01:15 84 but I may not be right.
11:01:17 For a number of years.
11:01:18 At least 10 to 15 years.
11:01:20 >>LISA MONTELIONE: In my investigation, I haven't come up
11:01:25 with any substantial evidence that residents in the
11:01:31 unincorporated areas of Hillsborough County, and in New
11:01:34 Tampa, the incorporated areas of Tampa, have seen an
11:01:39 increase in foreclosures, or people who are losing their
11:01:44 homes, or have any adverse effect from the solid waste being
11:01:50 billed as part of their property taxes.
11:01:56 I think that's all the questions I have.
11:01:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have Mr. Suarez and then Mrs. Mulhern.
11:02:00 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Mr. Daignault, thanks for coming over here.
11:02:04 You mention add couple of things I was going to ask
11:02:07 questions about but something specifically, this is a
11:02:08 non-ad valorem assessment as opposed to an ad valorem
11:02:14 Can you explain the difference between the two for the
11:02:16 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Sure.
11:02:17 If I could go on the Elmo for just a minute, I have a bill
11:02:24 here, and you can see -- maybe you can't see so much
11:02:29 But this part of the bill says ad valorem taxes.
11:02:31 And it includes county operating, environmental land,
11:02:35 library, school, local school, state, Port Authority, water
11:02:40 management district, et cetera, and those are all based on
11:02:43 your property.
11:02:45 Property values.
11:02:46 And then you have the non-ad valorem assessment piece where
11:02:51 we have our stormwater.
11:02:53 That's where currently our stormwater assessment is.
11:02:56 And this happens to be a bill for someone in the county.
11:03:00 So it does have county solid waste.
11:03:05 They have both disposal and collection bases.
11:03:07 They bifurcated it into two pieces but that's where the
11:03:10 solid waste piece would be.
11:03:13 And again it's not based on whether you have two lots, three
11:03:17 lots, one lot, it's just based on a residence.
11:03:20 It's a fixed ad valorem charge based on your residence.
11:03:23 >>MIKE SUAREZ: My grandmother was 39.5 when she died five
11:03:32 years ago, and this year in October she would have been 98.
11:03:35 Every year, she saved each and every penny during the course
11:03:39 of the year to pay her property taxes, never really had a
11:03:42 problem with paying those taxes.
11:03:43 I mean, thankfully, she was on a fixed income, Social
11:03:47 Security, for the most part, and she obviously depended on
11:03:52 us a lot.
11:03:53 But no matter what, she lived in her house until she was
11:03:57 93 1/2.
11:03:58 Not saying that everyone is the same and they do what my
11:04:03 grandmother did, but I think most people that have survived
11:04:06 bad times in the past understand how important it is to pay
11:04:09 their property taxes, and they saved and paid those as it
11:04:15 comes up, meaning they usually pay earlier, and they usually
11:04:18 pay it in full primarily because they understand the
11:04:22 importance of making sure they pay it.
11:04:25 I know that this is a process that we won't get to final
11:04:28 approval until sometime in the new year, but the
11:04:33 assessments, I think that some of the arguments about fixed
11:04:36 income individuals, it's actually kind of reverse because if
11:04:41 you have a bill that's present towed for the year, and as
11:04:46 Mrs. Montelione pointed out, there are ways that you can
11:04:48 even pay that bill on a monthly basis, it should be fairly
11:04:52 easy to do.
11:04:54 One thing I would like to you do at a future meeting and
11:04:58 maybe at our workshop next week is to ask the county how
11:05:03 many foreclosures they have actually done, because someone
11:05:07 did not pay their tax bill, even in the last three years in
11:05:11 terms of this.
11:05:12 You know, is the assessment great on the solid waste side
11:05:17 that someone lost their home?
11:05:18 I don't think so.
11:05:20 Based on that bill you showed me, about $6,000 of
11:05:23 assessable, and about $243 of non-ad valorem.
11:05:31 So I think the argument that you are going to lose your home
11:05:33 because you are not paying that bill, that extra amount,
11:05:36 seems a little spurious at the moment but I would definitely
11:05:40 like to see more information.
11:05:41 Thank you.
11:05:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Mulhern.
11:05:43 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Could I mention something that Mr.
11:05:49 Suarez said?
11:05:51 We provided a schedule, laid a schedule out for this entire
11:05:53 process, and it was said earlier, at this point we are just
11:05:58 looking to continue to consider this.
11:06:03 It would be in March that we would ask the council to
11:06:06 approve a notice to proceed about implementation, and have a
11:06:10 public hearing on the assessment ordinance in March, and
11:06:14 then in April, a meeting to adopt the initial assessment
11:06:18 resolution, and then the final hearing would be in the
11:06:24 May-June time frame.
11:06:25 So in addition to the workshop that we have scheduled for
11:06:29 next week, there would be three or four other public
11:06:34 hearings, council actions that would have to take place.
11:06:38 I'm sorry, Mrs. Mulhern.
11:06:39 >>MARY MULHERN: That's okay.
11:06:41 That's helpful.
11:06:43 Can you provide that schedule to all of us, if you have got
11:06:47 that already?
11:06:48 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: We did, but we can give it to you again.
11:06:51 We'll provide it to you again.
11:06:52 >>MARY MULHERN: And we just got these.
11:06:55 I have been thinking all along in a people didn't have a
11:06:57 problem with it but I think people didn't know that you were
11:07:01 moving forward with this.
11:07:06 We had two very long letters from Spencer Kass and from
11:07:10 another constituent with some very valid questions and I
11:07:15 don't think we have time to address them all right you know,
11:07:17 but I hope you will read all those.
11:07:19 And the next time it comes up in that time line, you will be
11:07:22 able to answer that.
11:07:24 But I want to point out a couple of things especially going
11:07:27 forward with the public hearings for the adoption, because
11:07:31 it looks like your public notice was in the free press.
11:07:37 Is that the only place it was noticed?
11:07:39 I have never even heard of that.
11:07:41 The "free press"?
11:07:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm not trying to get involved in your
11:07:49 They are the main suppliers of notification, because I guess
11:07:53 the expenses and turned out the amount of publications.
11:07:57 >> But this is my suggestion that you put it in the
11:07:59 publication that most people read like "The Tampa Tribune"
11:08:02 or even La Gaceta, Florida sentinel, and then Spencer Kass
11:08:08 had suggested that you have meetings with neighborhood
11:08:12 groups, so that they know about this before.
11:08:19 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: I'm sorry, but back on the question of
11:08:21 the advertisement, I believe that the clerk uses this.
11:08:24 I think this is the publication that the city typically uses
11:08:27 for all of its notices.
11:08:29 >>MARY MULHERN: But this is a notice that's going to affect
11:08:33 all of our constituents, kind of a big change, a big deal.
11:08:36 So I'm suggesting that maybe the notice could be in
11:08:42 something with more circulation.
11:08:44 >>HARRY COHEN: May I just address that?
11:08:49 I think the way it works is that publications of a certain
11:08:52 size, the legislature has authorized them to be on a list,
11:08:55 and the clerk probably randomly places any notice for
11:09:00 publication through that list.
11:09:01 And sometimes it's the Tribune, sometimes it's the sentinel,
11:09:05 and it's a list of ten.
11:09:07 And when it gets to the ten --
11:09:09 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm suggesting that in this case that it
11:09:11 should be published somewhere with greater circulation, and
11:09:16 I would like you to see if you can do that.
11:09:19 Then the meetings with the individuals and getting us the
11:09:26 time lines.
11:09:26 There was something else.
11:09:27 I can't remember what it was.
11:09:29 Oh, yes.
11:09:35 I would like you to confirm before the next discussion of
11:09:37 this that individuals can, through the tax collector, to
11:09:44 have a monthly payment.
11:09:49 Because I know Mrs. Montelione was talking about can you do
11:09:52 it monthly?
11:10:03 Can you have your property tax bill?
11:10:09 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: We will find out what arrangements the
11:10:11 tax collector has for everyone with regard to paying their
11:10:14 tax bill.
11:10:14 Again, there is about a four or five-month window between
11:10:18 November and March now when you can pay.
11:10:23 If you have a mortgage, would you pay it monthly in escrow.
11:10:28 If your home is paid for, that's the situation I think you
11:10:31 are talking about.
11:10:31 >>MARY MULHERN: That's what everyone was concerned about,
11:10:34 especially with elderly people on fixed incomes.
11:10:37 >> We will see what accommodation the tax collector has for
11:10:40 people who want to make their tax payment over time.
11:10:42 >> I think we need to know that specifically because you are
11:10:45 not answering that question unless you tell people, they
11:10:49 will still be able to pay it as they are now on a monthly
11:10:56 And if not they need to know that.
11:10:57 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I'm glad Mr. Suarez is back because
11:11:05 what -- what I was going to say is something that he brought
11:11:10 up, and one of the questions he asked Mr. Daignault was to
11:11:13 come back with the number of foreclosures that Hillsborough
11:11:16 County saw, and it's something that I have looked into and
11:11:23 that's difficult unless you go back to when they initiated
11:11:27 the change from billing for solid waste and shifted it,
11:11:33 whatever, 18, 19 years ago to the property tax bill.
11:11:37 Because that's when you would have seen any impact would
11:11:41 have been in that first year or the second year.
11:11:43 So recent data, the number of foreclosures is going to be
11:11:49 free passage tremendous, and the reasons why people are
11:11:51 losing their homes to tax deed now is a lot different than
11:11:54 it was 19 years ago when they initiated the change.
11:12:01 So that may be something.
11:12:03 So if you can ask the tax collector to go back to when they
11:12:06 first instituted the Hillsborough County assessment and look
11:12:08 at those numbers, that would be more beneficial.
11:12:11 Than the recent data.
11:12:13 And the tax collection over time, I believe -- and I have
11:12:17 worked a lot with the property taxes -- it's a quarterly
11:12:23 So if you are looking to spread your payments out over time,
11:12:27 the tax collector initiates a quarterly payment of your
11:12:32 total tax bill when you work out a payment arrangement, and
11:12:36 that information is provided when you receive your trim
11:12:42 notices, there's a little brochure, a bifold from the
11:12:47 property tax collector, that gives you the steps of how to
11:12:50 apply for payments over time if you need to have a payment
11:12:54 plan put in place.
11:12:57 I did no qualification, downtown have to prove anything.
11:13:01 All you have to do is request that you make those payments
11:13:03 over time, and then payments are then billed quarterly.
11:13:07 >>MARY MULHERN: Quarterly, and I don't want people to have
11:13:10 that impression, so I would like you to see if there's any
11:13:13 possibility --
11:13:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any council member who has not spoken,
11:13:19 that's the purpose.
11:13:20 Mr. Cohen, Mr. Reddick, Ms. Capin, if you care to have the
11:13:25 >>HARRY COHEN: I think what is being lost in da's
11:13:32 discussion is the reason why we are considering this doing
11:13:34 this to begin with.
11:13:34 And it may serve the public that's listening to this
11:13:38 conversation to have a little bit of context around why we
11:13:40 are even considering this.
11:13:42 And as Mr. Daignault pointed out, we are considering this at
11:13:47 a very early stage now.
11:13:50 Something that if we ultimately do, it's going to take
11:13:53 between six to nine months to actually put in place.
11:13:56 But the situation as it is right now is that our enterprise
11:14:01 fund of one solid waste is about to do a great big flip.
11:14:06 And that flip is going to take it from being an
11:14:09 income-generating fund to a deficit fund in a very, very
11:14:14 short period ever time, and it's going to have tobacco-free
11:14:16 happen and get very, very steep.
11:14:20 Once we start incurring losses.
11:14:22 From the presentation that I had -- and I assume it's the
11:14:25 one that the other council members had -- and it's probably
11:14:28 one that the public ought to see as we move through this
11:14:31 process -- there are certain things that the city has
11:14:38 proposed that we do to help reduce the amount of the deficit
11:14:44 before we start looking at either massive service cuts, or
11:14:50 huge price hikes in terms of solid waste service.
11:14:55 This is one of the few items that they were able to come up
11:14:58 with, but it's not one of those two alternatives that is in
11:15:02 fact something else, and it's really a mechanism that will
11:15:05 allow them to collect more money.
11:15:07 And the way that they'll do it is by having, through the tax
11:15:11 collector, a slightly more robust method of enforcing the
11:15:20 So it's not going to come without a little bit of pain to
11:15:25 some of the customers that are going to be paying their
11:15:29 bill, whether its annually, or quarterly.
11:15:33 But it might be better than the proposed alternative which
11:15:37 would be that that money would have to be tacked on as
11:15:42 either increased fees, or there would have to be a
11:15:45 drastic -- and I mean drastic reduction in the amount of
11:15:49 service that's provided right now.
11:15:51 So I would say that at some point during this process, in
11:15:57 addition to answering his questions, I would think it's
11:16:03 helpful in seeing that financial analysis so people
11:16:06 understand this is a component piece of stabilizing that
11:16:09 solid waste fund as we move forward into the future.
11:16:11 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Mr. Chairman, if I could, we do plan to
11:16:17 provide that entire presentation, because council member
11:16:19 Cohen makes a great point in the context, this is, I think,
11:16:24 perhaps viewed a little differently.
11:16:25 And at your workshop next week we will present the same
11:16:29 presentation again to you and to the public that you have
11:16:32 already seen presented for the entire financial picture.
11:16:37 Just for the record, as we have seen this situation coming
11:16:44 in, 2009 we implemented nonferrous metal recovery at our
11:16:48 waste energy plant, and we also did, if people remember,
11:16:52 with the makeup day.
11:16:54 We trimmed that away.
11:16:56 In 2010, we implemented this commercial bulk initiative
11:17:00 which we are continuing to purify, and we have saved about
11:17:04 210,000 a year with that.
11:17:06 We also implemented the service day change where we aligned
11:17:09 people in the north end versus the south end to have the
11:17:12 same service days, and that helped to save about $320,000
11:17:17 with our truck routing.
11:17:19 Just this year, you have approved -- and we began on the
11:17:22 first of October where we have moved the transfer, the
11:17:27 environmental staff to the general fund out of this
11:17:30 enterprise fund, and we started -- we are doing the transfer
11:17:36 station at the waste energy plant in-house.
11:17:39 Those have saved us $6,385,000 in the case of the
11:17:43 environmental staff, 275,000 in the case of Manhattan brush
11:17:47 site, a million dollars with regard to the transfer station,
11:17:51 and then another $1.1 million, again with your approval, to
11:17:56 change where we disposed of the ash.
11:17:59 So, again, we have been trying to PARE down on the expense
11:18:06 Again, that information has been provided to you, and I
11:18:08 think you appreciate what we have done.
11:18:11 We are still not there, as you know No, so some of these
11:18:15 other measures will be necessary.
11:18:16 But again, we plan to give the complete financial picture,
11:18:20 presentation, at the workshop next week.
11:18:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Capin?
11:18:26 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Very quickly here.
11:18:28 It was pulled out from the tax collector and the question
11:18:32 came up monthly.
11:18:34 There is a quarterly, which Councilwoman Montelione pointed
11:18:39 Not only is there a quarterly payment but there is a
11:18:42 discount with it.
11:18:43 So the first installment, second, third and fourth
11:18:49 I am not going to go into the details because we will cover
11:18:53 that at our workshop.
11:18:54 Thank you very much.
11:18:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
11:18:56 Let me just say.
11:18:58 This when we get to the point of discussion on this issue,
11:19:01 this is an enterprise fund.
11:19:05 Whatever moneys it generates, it's got to pay the payroll,
11:19:07 got pay the insurance, got to pay the debt service, got pay
11:19:12 new equipment, it's got to pay for everything.
11:19:14 This is one of four or five departments in the city got to
11:19:20 do that.
11:19:20 There is reservation on my part, however, we have great
11:19:24 employees in this as we do all over the city.
11:19:27 But when you look at it, this city gives raises when it's
11:19:31 going under.
11:19:32 When you use your reserve account, there is -- the only
11:19:35 reason we are doing this is because the reserve account is
11:19:38 gone or gonna be gone.
11:19:41 And I am not against raises.
11:19:43 I am against giving raises when there is no money.
11:19:45 And that's what's happening here.
11:19:47 When you look at the history of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania,
11:19:53 that city is bankrupt.
11:19:54 They can't pay their bills.
11:19:57 They have got to renegotiate.
11:19:59 When you look at other cities that had massive layoffs on
11:20:02 the departments that need the services to the citizens, they
11:20:07 are making cuts.
11:20:08 We haven't got to that point.
11:20:10 But what I do not like is when you have an operation, a
11:20:16 single home or rental home or whatever kind of home, and we
11:20:19 continually are going to sit on a bill for services that we
11:20:23 are not rendering, if you have a bill in a house and it's
11:20:28 not there and going to be $100 a month or whatever, it's
11:20:34 going to be a very bear minimum.
11:20:35 We don't do that here.
11:20:37 If it's 25.50 a month, it's 25.50 a month whether you live
11:20:41 there, don't live there, it's rented, it's not rented.
11:20:44 S that's not the -- not the way I operate.
11:20:47 I commend all of you for that.
11:20:49 I need information.
11:20:50 I need information of your rub running it like a bit.
11:20:55 I need information of cost of labor prior and after.
11:20:58 I need a cost prior and after.
11:21:01 I need whole detail of that development I need all of it so
11:21:04 I can make a value assessment on behalf of the citizens one
11:21:08 way or the other, whenever this arises.
11:21:12 That I know of, I have never seen that.
11:21:14 What is the cost of it as it stands now to operate per load
11:21:20 or ton or however you want to call it?
11:21:22 And what is it going to be under the new system?
11:21:25 We don't have that.
11:21:26 At least I don't.
11:21:27 And then you say, well, it's got to go to the massive area
11:21:32 where you do the discharge of the garbage.
11:21:35 That's true.
11:21:39 Yes, that's a cost.
11:21:41 Well, we also get a benefit out of that cost.
11:21:47 That's creating different possibilities.
11:21:48 I guarantee you that if our colleague was to talk to you,
11:21:52 maybe he already has, on recycling as they do in different
11:21:55 countries, it's not like we do it here.
11:21:58 It's altogether different.
11:21:59 I can assure you of that.
11:22:01 Water is altogether different because they have learned to
11:22:03 live without, and they have to have new ideas.
11:22:07 I want to know what we have done -- and you mention some
11:22:12 that worked and savings and we appreciate that.
11:22:14 But what is the final thing going to happen?
11:22:17 Am gig to pass this and four or five months down the road we
11:22:21 are going to see a rate increase?
11:22:24 I don't know.
11:22:24 I want those things addressed.
11:22:27 I'm not against rate increases.
11:22:29 I'm against rate increases without information on it.
11:22:31 So I want to ask you, sir, to give us the information that
11:22:34 we have so that we can understand what's coming two years
11:22:39 from you know, five years from now, ten years from now.
11:22:42 And a five-year projection of this wonderful, good operating
11:22:48 system that we have that works.
11:22:50 And what's going to happen to this department in five years?
11:22:54 How much revenue we have?
11:22:55 How much revenues and reserves we have?
11:23:00 How is that going to work out?
11:23:01 And I'm sure you are going to have that information
11:23:05 available to us.
11:23:06 I'm just asking that we need information, that this today is
11:23:12 nothing more than an asking of what I just said, for when
11:23:16 you go down the sheet that you presented on the Elmo, when
11:23:20 it comes to that date, that I and council members and the
11:23:23 public all understand what is written on those pages.
11:23:26 And that's the only thing that I have.
11:23:29 I'm not opposed to this today.
11:23:30 But I'm just letting now in the future how my thoughts are.
11:23:34 And I think you and I have had conversation on that.
11:23:36 You can understand what I have said.
11:23:38 And I understand what you're saying.
11:23:41 You're in need of something that we support.
11:23:46 Support is a four letter word.
11:23:52 And that's what recognizes most of these things.
11:23:55 And this government and all the governments.
11:23:56 So I leave it with that.
11:23:58 Any other council member discussion on this item?
11:24:01 I need somebody to move the resolution.
11:24:04 I have a motion by Mrs. Montelione on item 58 to move the
11:24:08 Did I hear a second from Mr. Suarez?
11:24:10 I have a second by Mr. Suarez.
11:24:11 All in favor of this motion please indicate by saying aye.
11:24:14 Opposed, nay.
11:24:15 Motion passes unanimously.
11:24:17 Thank you very much.
11:24:21 With Mr. Reddick being absent.
11:24:23 >> Motion to close.
11:24:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Motion to close by Mr. Suarez, second by
11:24:30 Mr. Cohen.
11:24:31 All in favor?
11:24:32 The Ayes have it unanimously.
11:24:34 I go back to the resolution.
11:24:35 The maker was Mrs. Montelione, second by Mr. Suarez.
11:24:38 All in favor of that motion please indicate by saying aye.
11:24:41 Opposed, nay.
11:24:42 The Ayes have it unanimously.
11:24:44 Item number 59.
11:24:53 Conned public hearing, quasi-judicial proceeding requires
11:24:56 witnesses to be sworn prayer to taking testimony.
11:24:59 Any individual that's going to speak on 59, please stand and
11:25:03 raise your right hand and be sworn in.
11:25:05 (Oath administered by Clerk)
11:25:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY: To refresh council's recollection, this as
11:25:20 the result of a tie vote, and council is coming back -- it's
11:25:25 coming back to you pursuant to council rules, the rule in
11:25:27 this case would state that the motion did fail, the public
11:25:32 hearing bass was automatically reopened and continued to
11:25:35 this time.
11:25:35 There is no fact no motion on the floor.
11:25:37 And you can move forward from this point.
11:25:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
11:25:43 Yes, sir.
11:25:43 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I defer to the pleasure of the council.
11:25:49 Would you like me to go and review what we had requested?
11:25:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All I can tell you, you have, I believe
11:25:58 under the rules, 15 minutes to make a presentation.
11:26:01 You can cover both of them at the same time or cover them
11:26:04 however you want, sir.
11:26:05 >>HARRY COHEN: I watched the proceedings on television so
11:26:13 I'm familiar with what the discussion was at the last
11:26:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
11:26:16 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Basically,
11:26:49 The proposal is to convert a medical office to a restaurant,
11:26:57 and we are requesting that the restrictions apply regarding
11:27:01 the 51-49% alcohol, food versus alcohol split.
11:27:08 There was some discussion about whether or not we were
11:27:10 consistent with the Kennedy overlay district.
11:27:15 And we are indeed.
11:27:16 It talks about in a variety of different locations, the
11:27:21 intent of the Kennedy overlay, and that it be a connector,
11:27:26 and it's a high-speed highway, and we have shown you some
11:27:31 pictures that indicated.
11:27:41 The property is located at the corner of Arawana and Kennedy
11:27:57 We'll Weese basically we will be bound by all restrictions.
11:28:02 We proposed closing at 1 a.m.
11:28:04 We also committed to making certain changes and alterations
11:28:07 to the site including buffer walls, landscaping.
11:28:14 Immediately south of this site is an apartment complex --
11:28:18 I'm sorry, immediately to the north of the site is an
11:28:22 apartment complex.
11:28:29 A picture of the apartment complex.
11:28:31 All of the solid waste and all of the facilities will be
11:28:34 screened from the public.
11:28:35 The entry as I showed you on the other picture, the entryway
11:28:38 is on the front on Kennedy Boulevard.
11:28:41 There will be no entrance for the public in the rear.
11:28:44 We are asking for a waiver of parking.
11:28:48 We have maximized the ability to park cars along the east
11:28:58 side of the site.
11:29:02 We have adjusted the solid waste pickup and dumpster so it
11:29:05 minimizes any impact from residential areas.
11:29:08 We have talked about operational issues regarding picking up
11:29:13 bottles, et cetera, that will be done not at night but in
11:29:17 the morning.
11:29:22 This is the rear of the building.
11:29:24 There is an alleyway between the building and many
11:29:27 residential areas.
11:29:28 The staff presented you with a site plan with zoning showing
11:29:33 you that all of the zoning adjacent to that was multifamily.
11:29:41 This is the zoning map.
11:29:52 This is the location of the property.
11:29:55 And everything up in here is all residential RM-16 which is
11:30:04 There is a close-up of the same, with property being located
11:30:23 The Tampa comprehensive plan, I read into the record, that
11:30:26 there were a majority of provisions that support it.
11:30:31 And let me refresh your memory on that.
11:30:39 This is designated as RMU 60 which is the highest density
11:30:45 provision in the land use designation.
11:30:50 It meets with the urban mixed use guidelines.
11:30:56 I can read to you the patterns, typically narrow with fine
11:31:04 grade development, four to ten stories.
11:31:05 This is a very intensive development district.
11:31:08 Buildings are sited at or near the sidewalk with primary
11:31:12 street frontage and typically one abuts a residential or
11:31:15 smaller street parking, is provided on-street as well as
11:31:19 with shared lots.
11:31:22 The vision of the Kennedy Boulevard is that the Boulevard be
11:31:26 unique historical social lineages and serves as a gateway in
11:31:31 the corridor and serves diverse neighborhoods.
11:31:34 The biggest issue that we are dealing with is, subpoena a
11:31:38 restaurant appropriate on Kennedy Boulevard?
11:31:40 And I would say to you that Kennedy in the past has had very
11:31:44 few restaurants that were successful and were able to
11:31:47 maintain their development standards and their client base.
11:31:51 As a result, many of them closed, they relocated, and now
11:31:56 you are seeing a resurgence of interest and activity along
11:31:59 Kennedy, and if Kennedy Boulevard is not the location for a
11:32:03 restaurant, where in the city is it appropriate?
11:32:05 It's unfortunate, but in order to have a restaurant to
11:32:08 survive, you have to have alcohol.
11:32:11 In this case we are not asking that as a principal component
11:32:15 of the activity, but rather as an incidental component as
11:32:19 provided for with the other restaurants that are up and down
11:32:22 It's not a bar, not a lounge, not a nightclub.
11:32:26 It never was being proposed to be that, and we have no
11:32:29 intention of that.
11:32:31 This is a fine dining establishment.
11:32:35 The applicant is proposing to spend upwards of $900,000 in
11:32:39 terms of improvements to this property, including furnitures
11:32:42 and fixtures, and will be employing approximately 30
11:32:49 We are respectfully requesting your approval.
11:32:52 I certainly will answer any questions that you might have.
11:32:56 We have adjusted the site plan to ensure that we have
11:33:01 complied with all of the various can commitments that we
11:33:04 made here, and we are respectfully requesting your approval.
11:33:09 I would certainly retain any additional time that I need for
11:33:12 rebuttal or to answer any questions.
11:33:30 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
11:33:31 I apologize.
11:33:32 I'm sick so I might cough a lot.
11:33:35 I think just to clarify what Mr. Michelini was going through
11:33:38 is what he was showing on the overhead is a revised site
11:33:42 plan that was submitted last week.
11:33:44 So it is new information from the original hearing that you
11:33:48 had, okay?
11:33:49 Just to show you the difference, he did change the legal
11:33:55 It did actually reduce the alcoholic beverage sales area.
11:33:58 The original had that piece in the rear and down the side.
11:34:02 With the outdoor seating area.
11:34:04 The new, as you can see, actually removes the addition back
11:34:09 here with outside area, and increased the width on this
11:34:13 side, so the back part, this is the property line.
11:34:16 The back part actually steps in, and the sales area went
11:34:21 from 4615 square feet to 4274 square feet.
11:34:27 That was one of the comments that we had in the original
11:34:29 report, was that that rear piece of the sales area, which
11:34:35 was just a rear sidewalk behind the building, didn't
11:34:38 actually need to be there and should be removed.
11:34:41 So he actually did that part of it.
11:34:44 We did have a chance to go back to solid waste and
11:34:47 transportation and they did get a chance to review it and
11:34:50 give us comments as of yesterday and the day before.
11:34:57 I sat down in the office and we went through the plan as
11:35:00 well, and did the best we could do tobacco-free go through
11:35:05 this versus the old plan, and the markup is things that
11:35:09 would have to be changed, and we still have the overall
11:35:14 objection to their T reduction in parking which is 43 spaces
11:35:17 required to 18 spaces that they only have on-site.
11:35:22 At the last hearing it was mentioned on the site plan, and
11:35:25 Mr. Michelini mentioned it as well, that he's working on
11:35:28 those off-site agreements.
11:35:30 We have had not had any agreements for us to review based on
11:35:35 our current parking requirements.
11:35:36 So as of right you know, it's still a waiver of 43 to 18
11:35:40 spaces which transportation and land development are still
11:35:43 addressing, the amount of park tock waived.
11:35:48 The solid waste department came back also and the facility
11:35:52 itself needs to be shifted.
11:35:56 Instead of three and a half feet here from the property
11:35:59 line, back to six to make that angle work.
11:36:03 We were also talking about their rear buffer 'n and it looks
11:36:06 like they have installed a four and six-foot solid wall.
11:36:10 There are additional areas to do more plantings as well
11:36:12 because we talked about potentially planting these areas
11:36:15 with additional trees, the buffering code and the zoning
11:36:21 There's a lot of moving pieces still, but all in all, even
11:36:24 with some modifications, the site plan, the overall
11:36:27 objections, the accepted amount of parking and the waiver
11:36:31 for parking, there's still an objection from staff.
11:36:34 I can provide you with this new site plan if you actually
11:36:37 want to see it.
11:36:40 And the comments from solid waste and transportation.
11:36:42 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Ms. Coyle?
11:36:53 I will wait null get to a microphone.
11:37:05 One of the stipulations that we talked about at the last
11:37:08 hearing concerned the time that the restaurant was going to
11:37:12 be opened, that they had stipulated that they will be
11:37:18 selling alcohol till 1 a.m.
11:37:22 >>CATHERINE COYLE: They did correct that 3 a.m. to 1 a.m.
11:37:25 There's still add modification to be made in reviewing that,
11:37:29 if you look.
11:37:31 It's stat, Sunday, 10 a.m. to 1.
11:37:37 It has to be 11 a.m.
11:37:38 That was probably a clerical error.
11:37:41 >> I want to be sure it's put on the site plan.
11:37:44 In terms of the parking, their choices are just off-site
11:37:49 parking for the facility, correct?
11:37:51 >> There is really no other space on that site for more than
11:37:55 the 18 spaces that they are showing.
11:37:58 We have a mechanism administratively for shared parking,
11:38:00 off-site parking within a thousand feet.
11:38:03 You provide the agreements with the property owners.
11:38:06 We double checked with the legal department that the lease
11:38:08 agreement is sufficient to meet those requirements, and we
11:38:11 also double checked the site plans for those other
11:38:13 properties if you are parking off-site, that the place that
11:38:16 you are parking actually has excess parking, and that use
11:38:20 that you are proposing on your site is actually an allowed
11:38:23 use on the other property.
11:38:24 We don't let you p park commercial cars on a residential
11:38:28 It has to be similar zoning, similar uses.
11:38:31 The council approved that particular waiver and they were
11:38:34 unable to Councilwoman some kind of agreement --
11:38:37 >> It wouldn't matter.
11:38:40 Because you approve the waiver.
11:38:41 >> So we are giving them essentially carte blanche on the
11:38:44 parking until --
11:38:45 >> Right.
11:38:47 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Got it.
11:38:48 Thank you.
11:38:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any other questions?
11:38:54 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Ms. Coyle, I don't remember this coming up
11:38:56 when I went through my backup, and I don't see outside
11:39:09 What is on there?
11:39:10 What is allowed?
11:39:28 >>CATHERINE COYLE: They didn't ask for any waivers of that
11:39:39 There is in a specific regulation other than it just meets
11:39:43 the basic noise standards.
11:39:50 Just to meet the basic requirements in chapter 3 and 14.
11:39:55 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
11:39:58 I want to ask the petitioner a question. You had mentioned
11:40:04 a possibility of off-site spaces that were sort of under
11:40:13 Can you give us a status on that?
11:40:19 >>STEVE MICHELINI: We have an agreement with the property
11:40:20 owner immediately to the west, which is GEICO, and that's in
11:40:24 the evening basis.
11:40:27 There's 22 spaces that we currently have under an agreement
11:40:31 and we are seeking an agreement from rose radiology which is
11:40:34 immediately to the east, and they have probably another 19
11:40:39 or 20 spaces.
11:40:44 This is Mike Disser.
11:40:48 >> 401 Harbor Place Drive, hello.
11:40:54 We currently have agreement with GEICO.
11:40:57 We are in negotiation was rose radiology and sun painting
11:41:02 which is further to the east.
11:41:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: May I ask what type of agreement you
11:41:09 Is it month to month, year to year?
11:41:12 >> Five year terms for the code, I guess.
11:41:17 The GEICO one has been recorded for two and a half years
11:41:20 already due to a previous, I guess, petitioner.
11:41:23 So that's been recorded.
11:41:29 We will have one five years moving forward.
11:41:36 I had a business with another three years with another
11:41:38 restaurant, and we are going to ensure their properties,
11:41:42 ensure their parking lots, clean their parking lots,
11:41:45 resurface their parking lots --
11:41:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I don't want to know the details.
11:41:50 I want to know the length of it, with a third party
11:41:58 >> A five-year term, yes.
11:42:01 >>LISA MONTELIONE: It says in this memo dated November
11:42:08 23rd from our transportation division that a parking
11:42:13 lease agreement for off-site parking has not been provided
11:42:17 So if there's been an agreement with GEICO in place for five
11:42:21 years, or however long it's been in place, and it's been
11:42:25 recorded, is there a reason why transportation is stating
11:42:27 that it hasn't been provided?
11:42:30 >>STEVE MICHELINI: It wasn't provided on this site plan,
11:42:33 and because we were making revision tots, we were going to
11:42:36 include the reporting information on the revised site plan
11:42:40 between first and second reading.
11:42:42 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Well, I'm sorry.
11:42:47 So even if you were making revisions to it, the existing
11:42:51 agreement would have been provided, and then that way we
11:42:56 would have some evidence that there was an agreement, at
11:43:00 least in place, and you may have the benefit of not getting
11:43:07 this comment from transportation.
11:43:10 So you could show that you did have adequate parking by that
11:43:15 lease agreement.
11:43:16 So my question is, again, why wasn't it provided?
11:43:21 Is there something in the terms of that lease agreement
11:43:23 that's already in place with GEICO that --
11:43:29 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I don't know of any restrictive terms.
11:43:32 It has three years left to run.
11:43:36 Maybe Mike could answer.
11:43:37 >> I personally didn't get that.
11:43:40 That was in existence from the previous land owner, I
11:43:44 >> But if it's recorded and on the property and it's on the
11:43:48 clerk's Web site, you can print it from the clerk's Web
11:43:51 >> Yes.
11:43:51 >> And provide it to us.
11:43:52 >> Yes.
11:43:54 >>LISA MONTELIONE: My question again, why wasn't it
11:43:57 To me, that puts a question in my mind that there's
11:44:02 something about the lease agreement that you didn't want
11:44:04 transportation to see.
11:44:05 >> no, not at all.
11:44:07 Not at all.
11:44:08 >>LISA MONTELIONE: That seems like an unfortunate
11:44:12 >> Correct.
11:44:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Capin.
11:44:17 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes, Ms. Coyle, on the parking, please
11:44:25 clarify for me, does it make a difference to transportation
11:44:33 what outside agreements they may have?
11:44:40 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The way the code works even in
11:44:41 administrative review, even outside of an alcohol review, or
11:44:45 something is coming to you, you are going through permitting
11:44:48 because you are increasing your intensity, and you are
11:44:50 increasing intensity on a site for a restaurant.
11:44:53 And that you have to have more parking than what you
11:44:55 actually have on the property.
11:44:57 We have an administrative process, a design exception
11:44:59 process that you can apply for tobacco-free show that you
11:45:01 have off-site parking within 1,000 feet, and it's a double
11:45:06 Takes review by the legal department.
11:45:07 They review the lease agreement to make sure that those
11:45:10 terms in the lease agreement are sufficient to meet the
11:45:13 intent of the code.
11:45:14 We then review with transportation, land development
11:45:17 transportation reviews the actual parking facility that they
11:45:20 are going to use to make sure that it functions per our code
11:45:23 and that the use is allowed on that property, and it's
11:45:26 within a thousand feet.
11:45:27 So it's a dual review, but it's an administrative review.
11:45:33 I think what we have been saying all along in our comments
11:45:35 through this process the last couple of months is that if
11:45:38 you have off-site parking, that's fine, you need to go
11:45:41 through that process to have that review.
11:45:43 We still have yet to receive any agreements.
11:45:49 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
11:45:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any other council members?
11:45:51 >>FRANK REDDICK: I have a question for the petitioner.
11:45:56 I received a letter, and I think other council members
11:45:59 received a letter from I think the homeowners association
11:46:06 expressing some concerns that they wanted to meet with you,
11:46:10 and you were resistant to meet with them.
11:46:16 Did you ever meet with anybody in the neighborhood
11:46:23 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I talked to them several times, and Mike
11:46:25 Disser met with them.
11:46:27 We also dropped off site plans to them on Tuesday.
11:46:32 I wasn't resisting them at all.
11:46:34 But the problem is they are not a registered homeowner
11:46:37 association, and there's in a way of finding them.
11:46:39 The only association that's registered is the one that Bob
11:46:43 Allen is president of.
11:46:46 And we have been talking to him for several months about
11:46:49 what was going on with this property, and it was a
11:46:53 misunderstanding which I sent an e-mail back to them,
11:46:57 expecting that they were going to call me.
11:46:59 But I did try to find them, but if they are not on the city
11:47:03 registry, they would not be able to be located.
11:47:08 One of the things that we agreed on, a long time ago, on the
11:47:11 development side as well as on the neighborhood association
11:47:14 side, was that in order to be effective in communicating
11:47:19 with areas that have development going on, was to list your
11:47:22 names, list your phone numbers, list your association, so
11:47:25 that you can be contacted.
11:47:27 And this association hasn't done that.
11:47:31 So when they phoned me, I was at the airport, and I
11:47:35 explained that to them, and I said it's fine, I would be
11:47:40 happy to talk to you.
11:47:42 I have talked to them on the phone about it.
11:47:43 And then I had a follow-up conversation.
11:47:45 And then the day before Thanksgiving, Mike Disser went and
11:47:51 personally met with them and showed them the site plan and
11:47:53 showed them the changes that we were proposing.
11:47:57 And he can talk to you about what happened in that meeting.
11:48:00 We did meat with them and there was in a No resistance
11:48:04 >> The homeowners association that is registered, the
11:48:07 neighborhood association, where Bob Allen is the president,
11:48:10 I believe, I know there's some resistance at the last
11:48:15 hearing, did they agree to support?
11:48:22 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I met with them on Monday and we went
11:48:25 over the revised site plan with them and to my knowledge
11:48:27 there were no pox.
11:48:29 I had a couple of conversations with Bob Allen since then
11:48:33 and there were no objections with him.
11:48:35 They were going to send someone from the association to be
11:48:37 here this morning. I don't think if they are here or not.
11:48:39 >> The vice-president.
11:48:43 FROM THE FLOOR: We are here.
11:48:46 >>STEVE MICHELINI: To my knowledge there weren't any
11:48:48 objections there.
11:48:49 Might be.
11:48:50 But in a one called me and told me of any concerns.
11:48:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any other council members?
11:48:54 Okay, proceed.
11:48:55 Anyone in the audience care to speak on this item 59?
11:49:03 >> Benjamin Buckley, vice-president of North Hyde Park civic
11:49:07 I want -- oh, right there?
11:49:14 This is a list of the waivers.
11:49:16 This is the site plan.
11:49:20 These are the things that the petitioner wants to waive.
11:49:26 And we like business.
11:49:34 We want everybody to have their business.
11:49:35 But we don't want to share the burden here.
11:49:40 I think all these things here, these ordinances that the
11:49:42 city has put in place through years of experience -- I have
11:49:46 been in the neighborhood for 30 years.
11:49:48 We have had other problems with businesses like this such as
11:49:52 the overflow parking, and noise, and all kinds of activity,
11:49:58 that flow into the residential neighborhood that joins this
11:50:01 to the north.
11:50:02 They are right next to each other P.anyway, these things may
11:50:09 And I think these ordinances were put in place for this
11:50:14 And as it stands, we 'oppose it and we would ask the City
11:50:21 Council to vote against it because of these waivers here.
11:50:27 Another thing I wanted to point out is in these processes,
11:50:33 like a special use for planned development, we have a lot of
11:50:38 talk and discussions here at the meeting before the City
11:50:43 Council meetings, the petitioners sometimes come to our
11:50:47 neighborhood groups and they talk to us and make promise, or
11:50:51 special deals, and sometimes these promises aren't carried
11:50:59 And I think there needs to be special attention to all these
11:51:01 promises and they need to be part of any kind of plan or
11:51:06 special request.
11:51:07 I can tell you one instance in our neighborhood where the
11:51:12 city deeded over about two acres of land probably worth
11:51:16 about $2 million to a developer, for free.
11:51:22 The deal was that we were going to have some green space and
11:51:29 public parks and it was all spoken here at this meeting and
11:51:35 at our neighborhood meeting.
11:51:36 However, when it came time, we have been locked out.
11:51:39 And we have been told basically that we are not to be a part
11:51:45 these green spaces that were allocated according to the
11:51:49 verbal agreements from the developer.
11:51:50 And I want to point that out.
11:51:52 We need to have someone to monitor all the PDs on a regular