Tampa City Council
Thursday, February 21, 2013
9:00 a.m. Session
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09:06:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: City Council is called to order.
09:06:37 The chair yield to Mr. Mike Suarez.
09:06:39 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, chair.
09:06:42 To present our invocation today, we have the reverend Justin
09:06:47 la Rosa, a licensed clinical social worker and a provisional
09:06:51 deacon in the United Methodist Church.
09:06:53 He served as the minister of discipleship at Hyde Park
09:06:58 Methodist for almost eight years.
09:07:00 Prior to that he worked seven years as the director of the
09:07:04 fathers resource of networking center, and supervised the
09:07:10 visitation program.
09:07:11 I know he's done a lot but he looks much younger than he
09:07:14 truly is, I think.
09:07:15 But Justin, if you can come up and give the invocation.
09:07:19 Please stand for the invocation and remain standing for the
09:07:22 pledge of allegiance.
09:07:23 >>> Thank you for having me.
09:07:25 I'm very honored.
09:07:26 Bow our heads in a spirit of prayer.
09:07:29 God, as servants of the city gathered here today, and
09:07:32 citizens of Tampa, we ask that we all be connected to your
09:07:36 presence as they listen and evaluate and make important
09:07:43 Give each person on this council and all the support staff a
09:07:49 heart of service, granting them virtue and desire to do what
09:07:54 is best for all the people of the city.
09:07:56 May they have a clarity of purpose, mission and call, as
09:07:58 well as a discerning spirit, one that would allow them to
09:08:02 see issues in their starkest reality and truth.
09:08:07 Through your guidance may they have a spirit of
09:08:09 collaboration, even amidst philosophical and political
09:08:15 Slow them down when they need to be slowed down and speed
09:08:17 them up when immediate action is needed.
09:08:21 So respecting all persons and faith, we lift these things to
09:08:26 And I pray these things in the name of God who changed my
09:08:31 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
09:08:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Roll call.
09:08:58 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Here.
09:09:00 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Present.
09:09:01 >>FRANK REDDICK: Here.
09:09:03 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
09:09:04 >>HARRY COHEN: Here.
09:09:05 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Here.
09:09:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:09:09 Need a motion to adopt the minutes of February 7th.
09:09:14 Motion by Mr. Suarez, seconded by the whole left side here.
09:09:18 I'll go with Ms. Mulhern.
09:09:19 All in favor?
09:09:21 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:09:23 All right.
09:09:24 We are going to go to ceremonial activities.
09:09:26 And then we'll do the approval of the agenda and the
09:09:31 The first item will be Mr. Suarez.
09:09:36 >> Thank you, chair, colleagues.
09:09:46 It's a great pleasure whenever we have members of our staff,
09:09:49 members of the administration, that are working hard as we
09:09:52 know everyone is to try to make the city better.
09:09:56 In this case, we have -- don't you love the color of this
09:10:02 guy's shirt?
09:10:06 Dustin was an intern over at the water department.
09:10:10 And they came up with a project that has saved the city
09:10:14 significant money, and the reason for the accommodation we
09:10:19 Their research, this USF intern from USF, great university,
09:10:26 Dustin under dawn Lee's supervision, the city developed an
09:10:31 alternative water treatment process that will save the City
09:10:35 of Tampa an estimate asked 1 million annually, and as you
09:10:37 know with our budget any money counts, and a billion bucks
09:10:43 is nothing to sneeze at.
09:10:45 Luckily the new process will be implemented immediately by
09:10:47 the operations supervisor Skip Peerpoint and Carlos Estrada,
09:10:53 allowing for instant savings and no diminishment of the
09:10:57 city's water quality.
09:10:58 And I just want to congratulate these two individuals and
09:11:00 the team at the water department including our water
09:11:04 director Brad Baird for their hard work in always looking
09:11:09 for different ways in trying to save the city money and not
09:11:12 have any kind of effect on our service is.
09:11:14 So please, congratulate our folks from our water department.
09:11:20 [ Applause ]
09:11:22 >> I would add a few words to that, if I might.
09:11:29 This is the kind of thing that the average customer, the
09:11:33 average citizen does not see.
09:11:35 It happens behind the scenes, the hard work of all of our
09:11:40 city employees.
09:11:41 But something like this was very special.
09:11:46 Under Dr. Lee's leadership, they built an entire pilot
09:11:51 plant -- several of you have seen the plant -- that mimics
09:11:56 the treatment processes of our David Tippin treatment plant.
09:12:02 And in doing that, they were able to test the chemicals and
09:12:07 the PH in the water to make sure this would work when we
09:12:12 rolled it out full scale.
09:12:15 So their work is just impressive, to say the least, and they
09:12:21 are to be commended.
09:12:24 And on top of all of that, Dustin won best paper at the AWWA
09:12:29 convention based on this work.
09:12:32 So please, if you would, give them a hand.
09:12:36 [ Applause ]
09:12:37 >> Dr. Lee: Mitts I honor to be here.
09:12:47 I would like to say that I got a lot of support.
09:12:52 There are really a lot of people involved behind the scenes,
09:12:54 not just us standing here today.
09:12:58 I got tremendous support, as well as plant manager Justin.
09:13:08 So I would say keep up the good work.
09:13:11 Finally I would say a big thank you for those people who
09:13:17 didn't come today for their efforts.
09:13:19 Thank you.
09:13:28 >> Dustin Bales.
09:13:31 It's been a great experience and I want to thank Dr. Lee.
09:13:35 I couldn't have done all the work without her mentorship and
09:13:38 guiding me in the direction and a lot of work we did. I
09:13:41 won't be working for the city a whole lot longer because I
09:13:44 am leaving for the peace corps in Uganda on April 23rd.
09:13:49 Hopefully I will be doing water and well work over there.
09:13:58 [ Applause ]
09:14:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The only thing I can say I know council
09:14:06 member Suarez mentioned the color of his shirt.
09:14:10 But I think that the beard and the hair-do is what really --
09:14:17 [ Laughter ]
09:14:17 Thank you for what you do and for what you are going to do.
09:14:24 It's certainly meaningful for society.
09:14:26 And no city and no government including this government can
09:14:31 ever go anywhere without infrastructure, and water is the
09:14:34 main system of that infrastructure.
09:14:36 And I look forward to the city working with the University
09:14:39 of South Florida, anyone else, and in the years to come you
09:14:46 will be using it.
09:14:47 Thank you very much.
09:15:00 The next commendation will be presented by Ms. Lisa
09:15:10 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Good morning.
09:15:16 Being the environmentally conscientious person that you all
09:15:20 know I am, and I am wearing green today, it gives me great
09:15:23 pleasure to present this commendation to Spencer Kass for
09:15:27 his commitment to preserving our environment by successfully
09:15:30 showcasing energy saving through environmentally friendly
09:15:34 How many of us would like to open our TECO bills and find
09:15:37 out that they would actually be paying less that month?
09:15:40 This is a new reality for Spencer Kass and Landmark
09:15:45 Landmark contracting headquarters is Tampa Bay's first
09:15:49 energy net zero corporate headquarters in Tampa Bay.
09:15:53 Their building not only uses solar energy for their power
09:15:56 needs but also generates enough power to help Tampa Electric
09:15:59 meet -- TECO as we know it -- meets the community's needs
09:16:05 for its clean solar power.
09:16:07 When he can't sell back all of his solar pow are, he gives
09:16:11 at way to electric car owners.
09:16:12 Spencer is ahead of his time in pursuing these green
09:16:16 initiatives and has the first of the city's first private
09:16:19 electric car charging stations that benefits residents and
09:16:22 business owners of West Tampa and north Hyde Park.
09:16:26 Spencer is one of 30 customers who is net zero usage.
09:16:32 However, what sets them apart from the rest is they were
09:16:35 actually able to run on their own solar power and pay no
09:16:39 electric bills for the one full year.
09:16:41 A $60,000 investment will be paid back in six years from now
09:16:44 and Mr. Kass will continues to see TECO cut a check to him
09:16:48 at the end of the year.
09:16:49 For years people have been skeptical about the energy
09:16:52 efficiency of solar power but with the price of panels
09:16:55 falling every day and the success of Mr. Kass and landmark
09:16:58 contracting, it is time to stop doubting and start looking
09:17:03 for an environmentally bright future.
09:17:04 So it is with great pleasure that I present this
09:17:08 I have known Spencer for probably 15 years now, and have
09:17:12 always known him to give back to the community and step up
09:17:14 when he needed to step up, and just a short thing about
09:17:21 electric power, when we were as council collecting gifts
09:17:24 last holiday season for the children of Sulphur Springs
09:17:28 elementary, they were falling short of what their goal was,
09:17:31 and I made a few phone calls to a few people, and Spencer
09:17:35 stepped up and said, what do you need?
09:17:38 And covered whatever the shortfall was.
09:17:41 So without even hesitating, he did that for those children
09:17:45 in Sulphur Springs.
09:17:47 And not only for contributing to our solar initiatives in
09:17:51 the city and our sustainability projects that we have here
09:17:55 at the city, but for giving back.
09:17:57 So today we recognize your ability to achieve a goal here in
09:18:00 All others have only talked about reaching.
09:18:02 Your company Landmark Contracting is Tampa Bay's first
09:18:05 energy grid positive building and more over you have insured
09:18:09 landmark contracting uses state-of-the-art equipment to
09:18:13 improve the environment and save money, you understand the
09:18:16 importance of preserving our environments for future
09:18:19 This type of innovation and forward thinking is something
09:18:21 the has been coveting and you successfully Rayed the bar for
09:18:26 others to follow.
09:18:27 Thank you very much.
09:18:28 [ Applause ]
09:18:29 >> I just want to thank council.
09:18:34 It's very nice.
09:18:35 The one thing that wasn't mentioned that I want to point out
09:18:37 is we had over 100 people come to visit and look at our
09:18:40 solar system.
09:18:42 These people, some of them will be making investments in
09:18:45 this technology which helps our city.
09:18:47 And we look forward anytime anybody wants to come, please
09:18:51 stop by and take a look.
09:18:53 Thanks again.
09:18:54 [ Applause ]
09:19:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Item number 3 is the EB-5 regional.
09:19:07 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
09:19:09 The citizens fact finding task force worked from instruction
09:19:14 resolution 2012-804, and also after hearing from the
09:19:19 community and from the administration, the city did not have
09:19:22 the resources even in dollars or in staff to invest in a
09:19:26 regional center.
09:19:28 The task force took that into consideration and studied
09:19:31 regional centers from all over the country.
09:19:35 Mr. Bill Flynn is chair of the task force and will present
09:19:38 the findings.
09:19:40 Thank you.
09:19:41 Mr. Flynn.
09:19:42 >> William Flynn, attorney in Tampa, Fowler White Boggs.
09:19:55 The task force has been looking into these issues, and EB-5
09:19:59 as you know is all about job creation.
09:20:01 For each investment that qualifies, either 500,000 or $1
09:20:05 million investment, the individual investor will himself or
09:20:09 herself and their family.
09:20:10 This is of great importance to people throughout the world
09:20:13 particularly those with school age children where the
09:20:15 ability to access education is so important.
09:20:20 The two dollar amount illustrates two types of investments
09:20:23 that can be made.
09:20:25 A entrepreneur can invest $1 million, create ten direct
09:20:29 jobs, or someone might invest in a regional center, in which
09:20:33 case the regional center allocates ten jobs based on
09:20:38 economists' report and the person is able to get a green
09:20:41 card based on those indirect jobs.
09:20:43 The concept of what is a targeted employment area is
09:20:46 relevant to the size of the investment, so if a particular
09:20:50 place where the investment is made, in a high unemployment
09:20:56 area which what's called a rural area which pretty much
09:21:01 means what it says, then the $500,000 level will be able to
09:21:04 be chosen.
09:21:06 As Ms. Capin pointed out, the city has to make a choice
09:21:09 whether they want to become a regional center or not.
09:21:12 We have studied various regional centers and other sent hers
09:21:17 around the country and for a good reason as Ms. Capin
09:21:21 indicated, becoming a regional center.
09:21:25 To become one, one must have a team together, an economist,
09:21:29 security lawyer, immigration lawyer, business plan writer,
09:21:32 and generally going to cost between 150,000 and 200,000 to
09:21:39 That in other models from what we have seen around the
09:21:42 country, there are going to be five or six that I am going
09:21:44 briefly discuss.
09:21:45 I am going to keep it short because other members of the
09:21:47 task force are here and other members of the public may wish
09:21:50 to be heard.
09:21:51 But there are private situations, public-private for cities,
09:21:57 public-private for states, such as Vermont, and then various
09:22:00 kinds of not for profit arrangements which would generally
09:22:03 not apply here.
09:22:04 Let's talk briefly about some of these examples.
09:22:08 The example of a private regional center is what is called
09:22:12 American life, which was formed in 1996, headquartered in
09:22:17 It does almost 100% of real estate investment.
09:22:21 Now, sometimes the strength has been that the person who
09:22:26 owns it knows what he's doing, and they have done well.
09:22:29 The weakness is you perhaps don't want to put all your eggs
09:22:33 in one type of investment.
09:22:35 And so maybe the more diversified approach is more
09:22:38 satisfying to other investors.
09:22:40 Vermont, beginning in 1997, became the first and only state
09:22:44 in the entire state of Vermont is a regional center.
09:22:48 Vermont has focused in on ski areas.
09:22:54 They are beginning now to develop a couple other ski areas.
09:22:59 The primary architect keeping the EB-5 around in Congress is
09:23:04 the senator from Vermont and that influence has been quite
09:23:07 The potential down-side -- and this will apply to what I am
09:23:11 going to discuss in a moment -- decisions may be too
09:23:14 politically driven perceived by the general public as too
09:23:17 politically driven.
09:23:18 And there's an issue of whether or not the experts, with
09:23:24 reference to those who might work for the state of Vermont
09:23:27 in doing this very specific model.
09:23:30 Now, South Dakota, which one would not hear about too much,
09:23:33 is an example of a public-private partnership involving the
09:23:38 This began in 1998.
09:23:40 It's mostly rural.
09:23:41 So by comparison it probably wouldn't help us too much.
09:23:44 On the other hand, the Dallas model might be a good
09:23:47 comparison for the council to think about.
09:23:51 The way that they found the private part of their
09:23:55 public-private partnership is by issuing an RFP.
09:23:58 We discussed that within our task force and thought that
09:24:01 would be a good idea to attract a cable existing center, a
09:24:06 developer who would tell us how he or she would govern, how
09:24:09 it would provide and so on so we could make a real judgment
09:24:13 call on that.
09:24:13 Dallas is diverse in its investments, in contrast to, say,
09:24:18 the private example, Seattle, American life.
09:24:20 Dallas is pretty much into everything.
09:24:22 They do assistive living.
09:24:24 They do restaurants, hotels, call centers, multifamily
09:24:28 One of the advantages that they feel is theirs is that they
09:24:32 are able to market effectively.
09:24:34 The private part of it is a company called city call which
09:24:38 does all of the vetting.
09:24:39 I know that we have had concerns from the beginning
09:24:41 expressed by this group, expressed by Mayor Buckhorn when we
09:24:44 saw him, that we don't want to put the city in any type of
09:24:48 harm's way.
09:24:49 And probably one good way to avoid controversy, at least,
09:24:56 would be to have someone else, in this case the private body
09:24:59 in Dallas took the project with the sustained project, and
09:25:05 the question, why do we noticed the city in this?
09:25:08 The answer to that is foreign investors for reasons I'm not
09:25:11 sure I can truly understand but I have seen this in action,
09:25:16 the idea of the city leveraging its credibility tends to
09:25:19 work very well in the EB-5 area.
09:25:22 So it seems like a good mix to us.
09:25:25 Due diligence is also done by the private part of the
09:25:30 Finally, we have a couple of not for profit models.
09:25:34 They are not going to apply so much to what we have here.
09:25:36 I do want to mention what the city of Philadelphia has done,
09:25:39 the city of Philadelphia joint ventured with its Chamber of
09:25:43 Commerce so we have the joint venture body.
09:25:45 And the joint venture body then did a public-private
09:25:48 partnership with a private developer, whether it tends to be
09:25:51 working there.
09:25:51 A couple more points and then I would be glad to answer
09:25:54 questions and open this to the floor.
09:25:57 I would be remiss in pointing out or not pointing out that
09:26:02 there is of course risk.
09:26:03 Any business deal carries risk with it.
09:26:05 Here, we have probably two main types of risk.
09:26:09 One would be that an investor himself or herself would not
09:26:13 do the proper due diligence.
09:26:15 What happens when someone loses money?
09:26:16 They look around for people to sue.
09:26:18 So I suppose it's conceivable that anybody including the
09:26:22 City of Tampa, sovereign duty not withstanding, could be
09:26:26 The other risk would be fraud.
09:26:28 The SEC is now investigating a situation in Chicago where
09:26:32 the regional center people have not done a good job and
09:26:35 there are allegations of fraud.
09:26:36 It looks fairly serious.
09:26:38 So how does the city cope with those risks?
09:26:42 I think the answer might be something like the city of
09:26:44 Dallas where the city is removed from the direct pathway, if
09:26:48 you will, of anything bad, but still able to leverage its
09:26:52 influence on the various yields which can be quite positive.
09:26:56 There are eight exact of states, cities or other government
09:27:01 bodies that have supported regional centers.
09:27:03 They are, quickly, Hawaii,way, Pennsylvania, Philadelphia,
09:27:09 Vermont, New Orleans, Los Angeles county, and South Dakota.
09:27:18 You all know what's going on in Washington now which could
09:27:21 have a very interesting synergy with the regional center
09:27:25 situation, or regional centers here.
09:27:27 President Obama and Senator Rubio -- Senator Rubio joined
09:27:30 the other three Republicans and four Democrats for the
09:27:33 so-called gang of eight, the bipartisan group that has
09:27:35 brought forth fairly interesting and I think solid proposed
09:27:39 immigration legislation.
09:27:41 President Obama in 2011 introduced pretty much the same
09:27:47 And although there was the now infamous leak that occurred
09:27:50 last weekend that came from the White House and aggravated
09:27:54 many of the gang of eight, I don't think that's a fatal
09:27:56 But what we are going to have is all of a sudden 11 million
09:28:00 people, or at least a percentage of those who will be able
09:28:02 to pay a fine, if they want to get residents to stay -- they
09:28:11 will go to the back of the line according to the Obama and
09:28:13 bipartisan bill, and one of the linchpins of each bill is we
09:28:18 allow for guest workers to come in, good news for the
09:28:20 agri-business in Florida, but also to give more Visas to
09:28:24 people who are the best and the brightest, and others who
09:28:28 now go back to China and India because we are so slow in
09:28:31 allowing them to gain permanent residence.
09:28:33 So I find that a very interesting coincidental timing
09:28:37 synergy, ones that could be quite powerful.
09:28:40 Let me stop there and I would be happy to answer any
09:28:42 questions you might have.
09:28:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Questions by council members?
09:28:47 Mr. Suarez?
09:28:48 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, chair.
09:28:50 Mr. Flynn, a couple things.
09:28:52 I think you kind of hit what would probably be the biggest
09:28:56 issue for us as a city in terms of getting involved with an
09:29:01 EB-5 center, was the -- making it seem like we are a partner
09:29:09 in some of these deals, and what the effect would be if a
09:29:13 deal goes badly and where we are going to be.
09:29:16 And I think you mentioned sovereign immunity not
09:29:21 withstanding, we may be sued.
09:29:22 Now we have a very competent and very good legal department
09:29:26 here, but at the same time we don't want to be involved in
09:29:28 large-scale suits in which, you know, there's some kind of
09:29:34 if not impropriety, incompetent.
09:29:38 So how do you fight that in terms of what you are talking
09:29:41 I know the Dallas model you brought up, you said that they
09:29:44 are kind of removed from it.
09:29:46 How is that structured in terms of how they are removed?
09:29:48 >> The structure, the so-called vetting committee, which is
09:29:52 under the auspices of the private part, they took the
09:29:56 project, so on the cities back over here, on that part of
09:29:59 the chart, I think your vocabulary was right on, Mr. Suarez,
09:30:03 the impropriety, the appearance of impropriety is probably
09:30:07 The bark is probably worse than the bite because I'm sure
09:30:10 the attorneys will make will bulletproof, whatever the
09:30:12 arrangement is.
09:30:13 But it's the appearance that the city is somehow involved in
09:30:16 something tawdry, perhaps an unavoidable risk in going
09:30:20 >> I wouldn't use the word bulletproof.
09:30:23 As you know as an attorney or anybody else involving the
09:30:26 legalities, bulletproof is probably the worst thing to say
09:30:28 but I won't tell you your job as an attorney.
09:30:30 In terms of another question I had.
09:30:33 If we are talking about a large public infrastructure
09:30:36 project, whatever it may be, whether it's for, you know,
09:30:41 transportation or water treatment, wastewater treatment,
09:30:45 other things that are large projects that might be
09:30:47 undertaken, has EB-5 been used in other jurisdictions to do
09:30:52 that type of funding, or even funding for leverage for
09:30:58 bonding purposes?
09:30:59 Have you seen that in your experience?
09:31:02 >> No, not as much.
09:31:03 You hear myriad types of uses within the subject of EB-5 but
09:31:07 that has not been any of the leading categories.
09:31:09 >>MIKE SUAREZ: In a partnerships in which a private entity
09:31:14 has partnered with a private entity to provide some kind of
09:31:17 large infrastructure project, correct?
09:31:19 >> Not that I'm aware of.
09:31:21 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you.
09:31:22 Thank you, chair.
09:31:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mrs. Mulhern.
09:31:25 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
09:31:26 That was the briefest that you have given us today.
09:31:31 I was looking at some of the backup.
09:31:32 And I just have a couple of questions.
09:31:36 I guess my big question is, if you can remind us -- because
09:31:40 I know there's back-up here, and you talked about it before
09:31:42 and other people -- what's an example, I guess, maybe in
09:31:47 Dallas, since that's the model that you think would work
09:31:51 closest to what would work here.
09:31:54 How much investment there was, and how many jobs were
09:32:00 Do you have some numbers to give us?
09:32:03 >> I know that a thousand green cards have been created.
09:32:06 But you can multiply that by the amount of the investments
09:32:10 that's required, be it 500,000 or a million.
09:32:14 And Dallas has, I think, been the most diverse in projects
09:32:20 as well, but in terms of the number of jobs created, I think
09:32:24 it's multiplied by 10.
09:32:27 >>MARY MULHERN: Can you do that math for me?
09:32:29 >> Well, you have got a thousand people who have gotten
09:32:32 green cards and multiply that by 100.
09:32:39 >> 100,000.
09:32:40 I think I figured it out.
09:32:46 >> Add a couple zeros, I think.
09:32:48 But the point being the Dallas model, it's from Dallas, and
09:32:54 my understanding is two or three airlines began to give
09:32:58 The it has other subliminal benefits.
09:33:01 But the potential has thousands of jobs and people are from
09:33:04 a certain part of the world.
09:33:08 Korea, and Iran.
09:33:10 I don't think we will be seeing air Iran here very soon but
09:33:14 it's conceivable that airlines servicing China, and more so
09:33:20 with south Korean people could also become another reality.
09:33:23 So there are those ripple effects.
09:33:25 >> Are any of the regional centers you talked about, I guess
09:33:32 Miami wasn't one of your examples today.
09:33:35 But it seems like it might be a very good benefit to our
09:33:40 >> No question about it.
09:33:42 And Miami that you mentioned is enroute.
09:33:46 They are in the process of putting together regional
09:33:48 I'm not sure competing in a time fashion but we would be
09:33:54 left behind a little bit if we weren't actively interested
09:33:56 in these.
09:33:57 >>MARY MULHERN: So one other question.
09:34:02 This is what your recommendation would be for us.
09:34:04 >> I'm not sure I can, giving a factual report.
09:34:10 >>MARY MULHERN: I think I heard what I need to so far with
09:34:15 It looks like the public-private partnership model in
09:34:20 Dallas --
09:34:22 >> Many people have thought that to be a good model.
09:34:25 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
09:34:29 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Very quickly, the number is $110 million for
09:34:33 Dallas since 2009, and they have 150 million in projects in
09:34:39 the pipeline right now.
09:34:44 According to the study.
09:34:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any other council members at this time
09:34:47 who has not spoken?
09:34:50 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
09:34:50 A couple of questions as well.
09:34:52 You mentioned the airline and the benefit to the airport.
09:34:57 Have you spoken to Mr. Lopano?
09:35:05 >> No.
09:35:06 >> Because he came from there and what some of the deals
09:35:09 were from there, I would like to have heard what his opinion
09:35:12 was as to those deals.
09:35:13 And looking at we talked about the benefits, and Mr. Suarez
09:35:20 asked a few questions about the down-side.
09:35:23 What went wrong in the deal that's being investigated by the
09:35:29 >> All I know, this is immigration lawyer scuttlebutt, is
09:35:34 people involved with really bad news, the people at the
09:35:38 regional center, and beyond that I have no knowledge and
09:35:42 just know what I read and what other people might have read.
09:35:47 People want to see cases that are smooth involving reputable
09:35:51 And I suppose there can be a bad apple or two.
09:35:53 It's in a fairly early stage but it doesn't sound too good
09:35:56 or smell too good.
09:35:57 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I would assume that a vetting committee
09:36:01 was in place for that deal as well.
09:36:04 So the idea that really bad people could possibly fall
09:36:08 through the cracks and be part of the program is a
09:36:14 And I think I read that the ruling that's coming through, or
09:36:19 the bill that's coming through, because it needs to be
09:36:22 reauthorized in September when it expires, doesn't contain
09:36:26 any reform to the current program.
09:36:29 So without reform to the current program, it seems to me
09:36:34 that there's a possibility that bad things can happen, and
09:36:39 in any real estate deal bad things can happen.
09:36:40 >> That's where the RFP comes in, I think, and a very close
09:36:45 look is given.
09:36:46 I might also mention that one of the very strict areas of
09:36:50 the law, in fact overstrict in my opinion is probably a good
09:36:53 thing, that the investors' source of funds is looked at with
09:36:57 excruciating detail in the spotlight so no foreign investors
09:37:01 can even get to the finish line unless they have been very
09:37:03 thoroughly vetted.
09:37:05 I wanted to comment on your reference to September.
09:37:08 Were you talking about the EB-5?
09:37:15 We are with it now without worrying about the date.
09:37:19 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So last September 2012 that it was
09:37:22 I was thinking it was September 2013.
09:37:24 Okay. Thank you.
09:37:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Capin.
09:37:29 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes, I did personally speak with Mr. Lopano
09:37:34 in August, and this past week, and, yes, with the Tribune, I
09:37:44 referenced the addition of, and with Mr. Lopano who I asked
09:37:54 if I could use that, and he said yes.
09:37:57 And I was very aware.
09:37:59 And it was him who offered that addition to EB-5 in Dallas,
09:38:08 the benefit, additional benefit to the EB-5 in Dallas.
09:38:13 So, yes, I did speak to Mr. Lopano twice.
09:38:17 Thank you.
09:38:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Any others?
09:38:20 Let me just say this.
09:38:22 What I think is what I say.
09:38:24 Way do is what I say.
09:38:25 What I say is what I do.
09:38:26 I didn't support this the first time.
09:38:29 First of all, why the cities are not involved in green
09:38:35 That's a federal item.
09:38:37 If it's true that the individuals want to invest to create
09:38:41 jobs, which I question because the real motive is to get a
09:38:45 green card for them.
09:38:49 Then why is the city's name being used?
09:38:52 These things are happening now, without any city investment.
09:38:58 So if it's true, that the immigration is changing, and what
09:39:02 they say today may not be what comes out tomorrow, out of
09:39:05 any one of those bodies, both the Republicans and the
09:39:09 Democrats in Congress, and hopefully they do come to some
09:39:13 sensible immigration reforms.
09:39:16 When I look at these things and I tell myself, what happened
09:39:21 to the 11 million people that are here?
09:39:26 How did they get here?
09:39:27 Our eyes were closed and 11 million people walked across the
09:39:31 I don't believe that.
09:39:33 I think we knew what was happening.
09:39:34 But we needed cheap labor, and that labor was used, and now
09:39:38 that labor is dispensable so let's get rid of them.
09:39:43 However, on the other side, you have the people who haven't
09:39:46 been used who have half a million to a million dollars to
09:39:50 come in in front of the line, and we are telling the 11
09:39:53 million or so, you have to pay to get in back of the line,
09:39:57 and that bothers me.
09:39:58 Because if we say that they have taken advantage of this
09:40:03 system -- and maybe they have -- we have also taken
09:40:07 advantage of them by picking strawberries, vegetables,
09:40:11 fruits all over this country having the prices maintained at
09:40:14 a lower level, subsidies all over to them, and I brought up
09:40:23 some a couple of weeks ago about investing in ourselves.
09:40:27 And you know what?
09:40:28 There are laws that says we can tax people, but the same
09:40:32 people we tax, we can't form an entity, and instead of going
09:40:37 to New York to sell bonds that we can't invest in ourselves,
09:40:42 meaning that our own taxpayers that we tax can't put up
09:40:46 money so that we can give them a better rate of return, get
09:40:50 the taxpayers a better rate of interest that we pay, because
09:40:55 right now, I don't care how much money you have in the bank,
09:40:58 you are lucky to get one percent.
09:41:00 So that's two.
09:41:03 And we say two percent and go into the bond market, but
09:41:07 there are laws that say we can't do that, all of us who
09:41:12 wrote those laws.
09:41:13 But at the same time it goes back to the same thing.
09:41:15 Those who have want more, those who have nothing will never
09:41:21 get above because we suppress them down as a government.
09:41:25 I'm not talking about us.
09:41:26 I'm talking about the government, period.
09:41:28 So what I see is a policy that's working on its own.
09:41:33 When you deal in real estate, all real estate deals are not
09:41:38 Most of them are.
09:41:40 But when you look at areas in this own Tampa Bay area --
09:41:44 notice I didn't say the city of Tampa Bay but the Tampa Bay
09:41:47 area -- that includes all the cities around the bay.
09:41:51 There's many real estate deals that have gone sour, and
09:41:55 guess who pays for them.
09:41:57 All of us do. At the end of the day by loaning the city's
09:42:00 name, it has a check mark next to it, in somebody's mind,
09:42:04 whether they are here, or abroad, or an investment firm, or
09:42:08 something, is going to say, why would the City of Tampa do
09:42:11 Yes, we have millions of dollars in loans to different
09:42:17 entities in this area to get better interest rates so that
09:42:20 they can build what they need, in the hospital areas and
09:42:23 things of this nature.
09:42:24 But we are not involved directly.
09:42:26 That is their loan commitment to wherever the entity is.
09:42:29 We are just using our name, provide that money to come in.
09:42:33 Yes, we do UPI for a business that wants to expand and have
09:42:39 a certain factor and income above and beyond the means that
09:42:42 we now offer.
09:42:44 Yes, we do have some tax breaks.
09:42:46 But they have to produce that.
09:42:48 And at the end of that, not in the beginning, not upfront
09:42:51 cash, they get a rebate of their taxes.
09:42:53 Those things I've always supported.
09:42:56 So I'm not just one-sided.
09:42:58 However, on the sake token, I don't support stadiums,
09:43:03 because that is not the right thing to do.
09:43:05 So what I'm saying is -- and these things here, if it's true
09:43:09 that the investor wants a green card -- and that's what this
09:43:12 system is built on -- we didn't build it.
09:43:14 Somebody built it back in the Carter administration.
09:43:18 Then these things are for green cards.
09:43:20 The investment is a secondary thing that they are getting
09:43:23 because they put up their money to get a green card.
09:43:26 So how many people in the world based on the income would
09:43:30 give 50, $100 to get a green card?
09:43:35 Most of them would but they don't have the 50 or the 100 and
09:43:38 that law doesn't exist.
09:43:40 It only exists at a high level because that high level will
09:43:42 take away the possibilities of individuals coming from
09:43:47 Haiti, from Dominica, from Cuba, from different areas that
09:43:52 we don't allow now.
09:43:53 So I don't know what the immigration policy is going to be.
09:43:55 But I can tell you one thing.
09:43:57 It needs to be changed.
09:43:58 Thank you.
09:43:59 Any other council members?
09:44:00 Ms. Capin.
09:44:04 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Okay.
09:44:05 Hearing all that, this is another fact from the study.
09:44:12 Since 2003 EB-5 regional centers have invested over
09:44:17 3.1 billion of foreign capital into the U.S. economy
09:44:22 creating 65,000 jobs for U.S. workers.
09:44:28 That's a fact.
09:44:31 Now, what we are doing here in the city now is brokering for
09:44:38 private EB-5 centers.
09:44:41 That's what we are doing.
09:44:43 That's the position that we are in right now.
09:44:47 The difference -- and I'm going to move to close this -- but
09:44:53 what was brought up here, the liability, we are not -- when
09:44:56 we talk about the city's liability, we are not up to par
09:45:01 with Philadelphia, Dallas, Vermont.
09:45:05 That's what we are saying, what I'm hearing.
09:45:08 That we can't keep up with them.
09:45:17 What happened in Chicago was a private EB-5 regional center,
09:45:20 not a partnership.
09:45:24 It doesn't mean it can't happen, but just to make sure that
09:45:28 it is clear what happened in Chicago.
09:45:33 I have seen mayors, I have seen county commissioners,
09:45:37 senators being taken off in handcuffs because they committed
09:45:45 This is what humans do.
09:45:47 We cannot control.
09:45:48 But we can control what this city does and how it acts in
09:45:51 the global stage.
09:45:52 And that's exactly what I believe this would put us.
09:45:57 And with that, if there are no more questions, I'm going to
09:46:04 move -- I make a motion that the work of the task force is
09:46:08 complete, and I move to accept this report, and in the
09:46:13 citizens fact finding task force at this time.
09:46:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Ms. Mulhern?
09:46:22 We have a motion.
09:46:22 Then Mrs. Mulhern wants the floor.
09:46:25 >>MARY MULHERN: (off microphone) I just wanted to speak to
09:46:31 some of the concerns I heard today, because we had so much
09:46:34 information provided to us, and I think all of those
09:46:37 concerns, for me, have been answered.
09:46:40 I think the reality is billions of dollars of investment
09:46:46 that we could see, that we have no other way to raise.
09:46:52 We have so much that we need to do in this city and this
09:46:57 You know, we could be increasing the business that our port
09:47:02 does by encouraging this investment.
09:47:05 We could be increasing international flights.
09:47:07 We could be funding big projects like high-speed rail and
09:47:11 light rail and reclaimed water.
09:47:13 We are talking about major construction that we do not have
09:47:18 the funds to fund right now.
09:47:21 So to me it seems like a no brainer.
09:47:23 Otherwise, what do we do?
09:47:25 We have to go to our taxpayers and ask them to pay more
09:47:28 taxes, not a real popular thing as government with elected
09:47:35 Raising taxes.
09:47:36 So I think it's a fantastic thing.
09:47:38 And I believe Mr. Flynn can reiterate this, but there are
09:47:45 quotas, and this is a separate group of immigrants that is
09:47:51 already authorized by federal law to receive these green
09:47:56 It's not like by giving a groan card to these investors, we
09:48:00 are taking it away from someone else.
09:48:02 >> I believe there are actually two.
09:48:08 This one you pay for the box seats instead of sitting in the
09:48:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I accept that.
09:48:23 Ms. Capin?
09:48:24 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Do you want me to repeat the motion?
09:48:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You may, please.
09:48:28 >> I make a motion that the work of the task force complete
09:48:31 and I move to accept its report, and end the citizens fact
09:48:35 finding task force.
09:48:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second by Mr. Reddick.
09:48:41 I have a motion by Mrs. Capin.
09:48:43 Second by Mr. Reddick.
09:48:44 All in favor of the motion?
09:48:47 Motion passes unanimously.
09:48:48 Thank you very much, sir.
09:48:54 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Now we go to the public.
09:48:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All right.
09:48:57 Before we do that, I need to approve the addendum and
09:49:03 The addendum has two items and I have one, George Martin, to
09:49:09 listen to the explanation as to why we are doing one of
09:49:12 these things.
09:49:15 These are the two walk-ons that we have.
09:49:17 One is pointing certain individuals to the task force of the
09:49:22 citizens advisory budget committee.
09:49:23 And the other one is a resolution that was brought up.
09:49:30 We could put it on the discussion if need be, but I think
09:49:33 all of you have been given the same information that I have.
09:49:38 That's what we have.
09:49:41 Mrs. Mulhern.
09:49:42 >>MARY MULHERN: I will move the approval of the appointees.
09:49:47 >> Second.
09:49:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mrs. Mulhern, a second
09:49:50 by Mrs. Montelione for the appointees.
09:49:53 All in favor of the motion?
09:49:55 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:49:56 >>MARY MULHERN: I did get this walk-on memo when I walked
09:50:01 in but I could use some explanation.
09:50:05 So Mr. Martin.
09:50:07 >> Jorge Martin, city attorney's office.
09:50:13 The reason this is a walk-on is time.
09:50:15 We sent a request to the Housing Authority which is the
09:50:19 developer to amend their subordination agreement with them.
09:50:25 They have moved certain funds that are available to them
09:50:29 through the neighborhood stabilization program.
09:50:35 If they didn't act within a certain period of time that
09:50:38 money would be gone.
09:50:40 We got into a discussion late in the game.
09:50:42 We couldn't come to the previous council meeting.
09:50:45 But the need for the execution of documents, the mayor has
09:50:50 executed the documents.
09:50:51 So we are asking City Council to not only give the authority
09:50:55 that is required but also to affirm that previous execution.
09:51:01 And so they could have some degree of comfort, and they
09:51:06 could start funding from their sources.
09:51:08 >>MARY MULHERN: Can you translate a little bit that to a
09:51:17 non-real-estate attorney?
09:51:20 >> Yes.
09:51:23 They would have gone away.
09:51:25 That's the reason why the mayor has --
09:51:27 >>MARY MULHERN: So we are authorizing those funds?
09:51:31 >> That our subordination agreement which changes favorably,
09:51:34 I might add, because what they are taking is NSB funds that
09:51:40 were sitting out there, putting them behind us, and
09:51:42 therefore we have $600,000 less in leans ahead of us.
09:51:50 It's beneficial for the city.
09:51:51 >> Going towards paying that --
09:51:53 >> But behind us in position.
09:52:00 >> Move the resolution.
09:52:02 >> I have a resolution by Mr. Reddick.
09:52:04 Second by Mrs. Montelione.
09:52:05 All in favor of the motion indicate by saying aye.
09:52:08 Opposed nay.
09:52:09 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:52:13 All right.
09:52:14 Before I continue with the public comments, 39 is going to
09:52:22 be requested to continue to March 7th.
09:52:28 Is that correct?
09:52:29 March 7th of the year 2013, at the same time.
09:52:33 >> So moved.
09:52:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mrs. Mulhern.
09:52:38 Seconded by Mr. Cohen.
09:52:40 All in favor of that motion please indicate by saying aye.
09:52:44 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:52:46 And 38 will be staff reports, the first item under staff
09:52:52 reports and unfinished business.
09:52:55 And the other one is 43, if you care to discuss that now
09:52:59 regarding the possible changes in the council agendas.
09:53:06 We can do it at the time. Okay.
09:53:10 Do we have a motion to approve the agenda and addendum?
09:53:14 Motion by Mrs. Montelione, second by Mr. Cohen.
09:53:17 All in favor of that motion?
09:53:18 The ayes have it unanimously.
09:53:20 Thank you for your comments.
09:53:22 We go now to public comments.
09:53:24 Anyone in the audience care to speak first to any item on
09:53:26 the agenda?
09:53:27 And then any item that you would like to speak of on the
09:53:31 Yes, sir.
09:53:31 >> Let the public speak on the subject we just covered.
09:54:00 >> You had asked originally that the EB-5 people go first in
09:54:06 public comment.
09:54:08 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes.
09:54:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We can change that.
09:54:11 My apologies, sir.
09:54:13 Let me do this.
09:54:14 Anyone who would care to speak on the EB-5 program first,
09:54:17 come forward.
09:54:27 >> the president and CEO of the Tampa Hillsborough
09:54:30 Development Corporation, participated on the task force.
09:54:33 I thank Councilwoman Capin for helping to organize that.
09:54:37 And quite frankly we see the EB-5 program as being a great
09:54:41 potential new tool for us to be able to use in a more formal
09:54:46 kind of a way to heighten and to market it on our currents
09:54:51 trips that we take, to create jobs, and this program is very
09:54:59 much in line.
09:55:01 We like the idea of the RFP process because we think it
09:55:05 insulates the city, it protects the city from any expense,
09:55:09 and it also insures that we go through a competitive
09:55:12 process, and we get the best company and best group of
09:55:15 individuals working with us.
09:55:17 So we appreciate your consideration of that effort going
09:55:21 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:55:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
09:55:23 Next, please.
09:55:26 >>RON ROTELLA: I also want to comment on the EB-5 program.
09:55:29 Council members,.
09:55:35 I just want to point out what we are recommending.
09:55:38 We are not recommending you consider the establishment
09:55:46 To come back to you with a recommendation.
09:55:50 But the task force took into consideration was the
09:55:53 administration's concern -- and they were valid -- that
09:55:56 there's risk here, that we should do some more due
09:55:59 So we are recommending to you as a model, not to set it up.
09:56:04 All we are suggesting to you is that we go out for an RFP
09:56:08 and receive proposals from existing EB-5 regional centers
09:56:13 that are already in place, that have a track record, that we
09:56:16 can analyze, or if somebody wants to create a new EB-5
09:56:21 regional center, and also asking for you to, I think, give
09:56:27 credence to the task force that you appointed, allow us to
09:56:30 take the next step, go out for a request for proposals, see
09:56:34 what we get and come back to you, and why would we want to
09:56:37 put our city at a disadvantage competitively with other
09:56:41 major markets all over the United States?
09:56:42 So that's all we are asking you to do.
09:56:44 Thank you.
09:56:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
09:56:50 >> Point of information.
09:56:51 I need clarification.
09:56:52 Is this from our three minutes?
09:56:55 I have a lot to say about EB-5.
09:56:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You have got three minutes.
09:57:00 >> Total?
09:57:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Total.
09:57:02 >> Well, I'll wait then.
09:57:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Still going to have the same three
09:57:08 Your three minutes now or three minutes later, makes no
09:57:11 I'm trying to be fair with you.
09:57:13 >> I'll just change the order.
09:57:16 >>BOB McDONAUGH: Administrator of economic opportunity and
09:57:20 thank you for bringing the task force to bear on this
09:57:23 We obviously welcome investment in our community.
09:57:27 And the administration is spending time, taking a look at
09:57:30 the various form as to see whether or not one would make the
09:57:34 best sense for the city.
09:57:36 And we will be coming back to you in the future with that.
09:57:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
09:57:39 Anyone else on item number 3, EB-5? Okay.
09:57:42 We go to other items.
09:57:44 Ms. Capin.
09:57:48 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Okay.
09:57:49 I ask to speak first after -- do I need to wait?
09:57:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No, you can speak now.
09:57:54 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I am going to make a motion.
09:57:58 I motion that our City Council attorney Mr. Shelby bring
09:58:01 back for consideration in two weeks a resolution urging the
09:58:05 administration pursue a public-private regional center,
09:58:10 joint venture, to engage in the employment-based federal
09:58:13 program known as EB-5, at no cost to the city, using an
09:58:18 outside entity to administer the RFP for such a joint
09:58:22 venture and urging the administration that a citizens group
09:58:26 be established for the purpose of identifying and vetting
09:58:29 the pro peck tiff projects.
09:58:31 Our mayor may structure Tampa's regional center for our city
09:58:35 to be involved with the promotion of economic growth,
09:58:38 improved regional productivity, jobs creation, and increased
09:58:43 domestic capital investment.
09:58:45 That is my motion.
09:58:46 >> Second.
09:58:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mrs. Capin, a second
09:58:50 by Mrs. Mulhern.
09:58:51 Further discussion by council members?
09:58:53 Mr. Cohen.
09:58:53 >>HARRY COHEN: I have been following the discussion here
09:58:56 this morning, and it appears to me from what Mr. McDonaugh
09:59:04 said that -- and from the way the conversation has
09:59:07 progressed -- that the administration is not inclined to
09:59:12 want to move forward with this.
09:59:14 And I want to make sure that I'm understanding that
09:59:17 Mr. McDonaugh, what exactly is the administration's position
09:59:23 on whether or not you wish -- the mayor wishes to proceed
09:59:28 with this?
09:59:30 >>BOB McDONAUGH: I believe at the current time we are still
09:59:32 looking at the various formats of ways of structuring EB-5
09:59:37 As you well know, there is EB-5 investment in our community
09:59:41 The down payment assistance for the federal courthouse is
09:59:46 EB-5 money.
09:59:47 Again, these are loans.
09:59:49 They are not out and out grants.
09:59:50 They are a five-year loan at a certain interest rate.
09:59:53 And looking -- weighing the opportunities, because we have
09:59:57 not finished vetting it yet.
09:59:59 There was talk about Chicago.
10:00:01 We saw $200 million in indictments.
10:00:08 One city is bankrupt.
10:00:09 There was one in California that had an issue for a transit
10:00:14 home that ran into problems.
10:00:15 The FCC is doing an investigation right now of 500 files
10:00:19 responding to the different centers.
10:00:21 And the federal government is taking a look at it.
10:00:26 So it bears caution as to what form and format that we
10:00:30 embrace to make sure that if we do move forward with
10:00:34 something that is -- we get the best possible results.
10:00:37 >> And my understanding of your motion, as councilwoman
10:00:42 Capin -- you are asking us to encourage the administration
10:00:46 to study it?
10:00:46 What exactly -- are we asking you to do something
10:00:49 differently than what you say you are doing now?
10:00:52 >>BOB McDONAUGH: I think that at the current time the
10:00:54 administration is not yet ready to make a commitment.
10:00:57 But we certainly are engaged in the examination of it.
10:01:03 >>MIKE COHEN: Would there be a point at which would you be
10:01:05 willing to make the commitment?
10:01:07 >>BOB McDONAUGH: My assumption is yes.
10:01:10 Actually, Ms. Capin shared a very in-depth study of what's
10:01:15 going on in the city of Dallas.
10:01:17 And I know the mayor is reviewing that right now.
10:01:19 But I don't think that the administration has a firm opinion
10:01:22 one way or the other right now.
10:01:24 We are still studying the subject.
10:01:27 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I will repeat my motion, okay?
10:01:30 I motion that our City Council attorney Mr. Shelby bring
10:01:32 back for consideration in two weeks a resolution urging the
10:01:36 administration pursue a public-private regional center,
10:01:41 joint venture, to engage in the employment-based federal
10:01:44 program known as EB-5, at in cost to the city, using an
10:01:48 outside entity to administrator the RSP for such a joint
10:01:53 venture and urge that a citizens group be established for
10:01:57 the purpose of identifying the respective project.
10:02:02 Our mayor may structure Tampa's regional center for our city
10:02:06 to be involved with the promotion of economic growth,
10:02:11 improved regional productivity, job creation and increased
10:02:14 domestic capital investment.
10:02:15 And I will add that from the point of involved with
10:02:21 promotional and economic growth, that is the definition of a
10:02:26 regional center under the federal program, is the last part
10:02:31 of this.
10:02:32 So if you want me to explain --
10:02:35 >> No, no.
10:02:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Reddick?
10:02:38 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
10:02:40 And I am asking for clarification.
10:02:44 If we authorize Mr. Shelby to bring back a resolution, then
10:02:55 once they bring that before us, and when we vote to support
10:02:58 that resolution, that's when it goes to administration
10:03:02 requesting they follow whatever you outline in the
10:03:07 >>YVONNE CAPIN: We are urging the administration ---more
10:03:10 than -- I assume from what I heard from Mr. McDonaugh.
10:03:15 And, you know, I sat with the mayor last Friday morning.
10:03:21 >>FRANK REDDICK: No, I just want to be clear.
10:03:23 All we are doing today is asking them to draft a resolution?
10:03:29 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes.
10:03:30 >>FRANK REDDICK: That's what I want to be clear on.
10:03:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me just say this.
10:03:33 I am not going to support the motion.
10:03:34 I'll tell you why.
10:03:35 If the administration had any inclination that they wanted
10:03:41 to do this, this has been here long enough.
10:03:43 Been here for months.
10:03:46 And if they would have come forward and said that.
10:03:50 The administration hasn't done that.
10:03:52 They haven't denied it but they haven't approved it.
10:03:54 So a resolution is just what it is, a resolution.
10:03:57 It carries no weight.
10:03:58 We can pass 10,000 resolutions and send them to this mayor
10:04:01 or any other mayor and all they have to do is sit there.
10:04:04 So I would rather let the administration do their own due
10:04:08 diligence that they are doing now.
10:04:09 It's what the evidence that came before us this morning.
10:04:12 I would rather the administration on their own conclude
10:04:16 whether they want to or not.
10:04:19 And although it's no cost today, I have been here long
10:04:28 enough to know that things always do in the end, not in the
10:04:33 Motion by Mrs. Capin.
10:04:35 Second by Mrs. Mulhern.
10:04:37 Call for a vote.
10:04:38 All in favor of the resolution indicate by saying aye.
10:04:40 Opposed nay.
10:04:41 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miranda and Montelione
10:04:52 voting no, and Suarez being absent at vote.
10:04:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you all very much for attending.
10:04:59 We go now to public comments, continuation of public
10:05:02 comments to items on the agenda first or any other items.
10:05:12 >> Pete Johnson, 510 Harrison street.
10:05:15 I want to talk about 37, 42 and 41.
10:05:20 On 37, I heard a rumor that code enforcement was going to
10:05:26 enforce this ordinance for drugs.
10:05:32 I think we need to look into that a little bit with the
10:05:35 I really feel this would be a TPD issue.
10:05:38 Code enforcement is overworked, underpaid, beat up as it is.
10:05:46 Number 42, chickens.
10:05:49 What can I say about chicken?
10:05:51 I think we are opening up Pandoras box.
10:05:54 I'm sorry, this is a city.
10:05:55 This is not a rural country area.
10:05:58 We have dogs and cats that run loose continuously.
10:06:01 We have chickens that run loose continuously.
10:06:09 And 41, on the paperwork that I sent to or I just handed
10:06:14 This is a list of just some boarding houses that a group of
10:06:20 neighbors have been working for the last ten years on that
10:06:24 are still in violation.
10:06:27 Fire safety codes are not upheld.
10:06:31 These people live in deplorable conditions, overcrowding.
10:06:36 38 people in 2,000 or 3,000 square feet?
10:06:42 Come on.
10:06:43 Even poor people need protection.
10:06:47 So hopefully you will pass the boarding house.
10:06:56 And how are we going to enforce all of that?
10:07:00 We have got to change our enforcement procedures.
10:07:04 We have got to give code enforcement the resources, the
10:07:07 money, and the staffing, and the training to do any of this.
10:07:17 Please, we have got to do something about code enforcement.
10:07:22 The entire system is so flawed, I have even seen -- it's
10:07:29 ridiculous how they treat people. Anyway, it's not their
10:07:34 It is the process that is wrong.
10:07:37 Thank you.
10:07:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:07:40 Next, please.
10:07:41 >> I'm ed.
10:07:53 Ed Tillou from Sulphur Springs, I guess would you say.
10:07:58 I have several agenda items that I do my homework on, to
10:08:03 show how much what I'm speaking to addresses various agenda
10:08:09 First, I did want to say that the red light cameras going in
10:08:13 the direction are too high.
10:08:20 Something that makes life safer for the pedestrians was a
10:08:24 good commemoration of admiral Collins because of the much
10:08:28 less likely what happened to him, but this might open the
10:08:34 Life is much better with them for pedestrians.
10:08:38 Item 19.
10:08:44 It might be cheaper to use methanol.
10:08:46 That's something senator Nelson is working on and mites give
10:08:49 some direction to my design project which involves fire
10:08:56 Going to item 2.
10:08:57 This is not a very effective way, not a very effective way
10:09:02 of reducing greenhouse gas.
10:09:05 There are much better ways, and this guy has taken the oil
10:09:16 companies for millions of dollars.
10:09:17 But in any case, it sets a good example.
10:09:20 That's what's important.
10:09:21 And it should set a good example for City Council to do
10:09:24 something that would be much, much more important by hybrids
10:09:33 as city cars.
10:09:34 In fact, I am going to write a letter to the White House
10:09:37 that they need to approve so maybe police departments will
10:09:44 buy it.
10:09:45 Because when -- there's about a one in 20 chance, I thought,
10:09:51 that I think it's after the north Korean rhetoric goes up to
10:09:54 about one in ten, on this happening, and it's not
10:10:00 apparently -- I made a mistake earlier, because I guess I
10:10:08 didn't read this carefully enough.
10:10:10 Oh, there it is.
10:10:14 This was actually based on state of the art Russian
10:10:18 missiles, so it wouldn't be 70 percent in the urban
10:10:22 population for the entire country but more like 30%.
10:10:24 I think it's still a big thing.
10:10:31 This is what I was referring to.
10:10:33 This is state of the art missile, not north Korean.
10:10:38 But you have to realize, in this movie expresses it very
10:10:41 well, when the soldiers tell the guys in the barricades, the
10:10:45 people are not with you, and they persist anyway, the little
10:10:49 bit about the boy being killed.
10:10:51 That actually did happen.
10:10:52 (Bell sounds)
10:10:53 But it's exaggerated.
10:10:55 People do irrational things.
10:10:58 And that's what this is about.
10:11:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:11:02 Next, please.
10:11:02 >> Susan Long, 921 east broad.
10:11:16 I have item 42, chickens.
10:11:21 I have don't have a problem with people having chicken in
10:11:25 their backyard, three our four of them.
10:11:28 No issue.
10:11:28 The issue is there's absolutely no way to enforce this
10:11:32 I have neighbors who have this H chickens for well over ten
10:11:36 I have never seen them.
10:11:37 I don't hear them.
10:11:38 They don't create a problem.
10:11:39 Fine with me.
10:11:40 But as soon as you allow it, people like the guy across the
10:11:43 street from me deciding four chickens, and they dig up my
10:11:49 landscaping, poop all over my red brick walkway, and I spent
10:11:52 hours cleaning it off.
10:11:54 They stop in the middle of the road, and traffic comes
10:11:57 rushing down, slams on their brakes so they don't hit the
10:12:00 chickens and almost cause accidents.
10:12:02 You talk to them, well, I want free range chickens.
10:12:07 I'm sorry, free range chickens aren't allowed.
10:12:10 Well, but they are my kids' pets. Okay.
10:12:12 But they are not contained in the guard.
10:12:15 They are not going to be contained in the yard.
10:12:17 If you call code enforcement, by the time they will come the
10:12:19 chickens are somewhere else.
10:12:21 There is no way to enforce this ordinance unless you give
10:12:25 permission to go into everybody's backyard and check, which
10:12:28 is never gonna happen.
10:12:30 So my concern isn't whether or not people are allowed to
10:12:34 have three, four, five chickens in the backyard.
10:12:37 How the heck are you going to enforce it?
10:12:39 The answer is, you are not.
10:12:41 >> Next, please.
10:12:43 Thank you very much.
10:12:43 >> I'm Mark Sutherland, live in Seminole Heights.
10:12:49 I'm also speaking regarding agenda item number 42, the urban
10:12:53 I'm here in supports of the new ordinance, kind of loosen
10:12:58 laws to allow chickens to be raised in our neighborhood.
10:13:02 Like every other law, enforcement is essential.
10:13:05 But as we know, people are raising chickens in their yard
10:13:12 now without any kind of regulations and why not make it a
10:13:15 little more structured so that people know what's within
10:13:20 their rights?
10:13:20 First I think it's an innocuous issue.
10:13:23 The way the ordinance is written is the chickens be penned,
10:13:26 there be no roosters, and makes it very manageable.
10:13:33 Most people are very responsible on this issue and people
10:13:37 who raise chickens are pretty earnest in their endeavors,
10:13:40 and I don't see chickens running around wild and causing
10:13:48 It didn't going to happen.
10:13:49 A lot of people want these birds for food, educate the
10:13:54 children on where food comes from, animal husbandry and
10:13:59 Everybody I know is in support of this and a lot came up
10:14:02 last meeting on this subject.
10:14:04 We are in favor of it.
10:14:05 And these were responsible upstanding citizens and I think
10:14:11 we have a right to raise these birds in a responsible manner
10:14:14 in our yard.
10:14:15 Thank you.
10:14:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:14:17 Next, please.
10:14:17 >> Good morning.
10:14:23 Huey Johnson, 1714 Main Street in the West Tampa community
10:14:28 development; INC.
10:14:31 My questions are on the agenda that concerns the treatment
10:14:37 of code enforcement.
10:14:39 And I think it's code enforcement gone wild.
10:14:44 We were threatened with arrest by code enforcement officers
10:14:47 back in August of last year because he stated we are in
10:14:50 violation of the city ordinance of two on the property at
10:14:56 the same time.
10:14:56 Also, we were violated for having signs on a trailer.
10:15:00 And we went to magistrate court which was mostly impartial,
10:15:06 and they were saying that although there are numerous
10:15:10 violations all over town, we were the only entity that's
10:15:12 being violated, and we attempted to present pictures showing
10:15:17 what our position was, and bias, and the management
10:15:22 basically blew us off and said the guy is not bias, because
10:15:26 he knew him personally.
10:15:28 So you have two sets of rules going on with entities on
10:15:34 properties, vending food, and then you have the City of
10:15:38 Tampa that's allowed to have numerous food trucks on the
10:15:44 Right now because they say we are on the city's
10:15:46 But here we are on private property, not allowed to have
10:15:50 entities on our property.
10:15:51 And then you are allowed code enforcement to so-called
10:15:55 enforce these rules that are bias and selective.
10:15:58 And we are asking that you come up with some type of
10:16:01 resolution, some kind of review whether actually code
10:16:05 enforcement enforces.
10:16:07 Because you go down the street and you see numerous flags
10:16:09 and banners everywhere.
10:16:10 You see entities on the same property.
10:16:13 But yet code enforcement doesn't enforce them.
10:16:15 But you come to our poor little nonprofit agency, and you
10:16:19 can put us in jail.
10:16:22 So if there are any questions I can answer for you, I would
10:16:25 like to.
10:16:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, we appreciate it very much.
10:16:29 There's a section J here.
10:16:30 I don't know what the outcome of this will be.
10:16:32 Evidently there's going to be a legal ramification on the
10:16:37 parties involved.
10:16:40 By our own rules the discussion is limited to what we can
10:16:44 We can hear but we don't make comments.
10:16:46 Thank you very much, sir.
10:16:47 >>FRANK REDDICK: Mr. Chairman, I think we probably need to
10:16:53 inform the gentleman, I believe March 20th we have a
10:16:57 workshop, and I would suggest to you that you come at 10:I
10:17:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: March 28th.
10:17:11 >> Where is the location?
10:17:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Right here.
10:17:14 >>FRANK REDDICK: You might wants to be here for that.
10:17:20 >> Good morning.
10:17:22 I'm Ruth McNair, the coordinator of the crime watch
10:17:27 association and also member of T.H.A.N.
10:17:30 I'm going to be speaking on 42.
10:17:33 And we talked about it about chickens.
10:17:37 So that's why I'm here.
10:17:39 I was raised in which we had chickens, but now being in the
10:17:46 city, I believe we don't believe we should have chickens in
10:17:51 the city because it's going to be a nuisance.
10:17:52 I don't see how code enforcement, they haven't looked --
10:17:57 they will not be able to control chickens.
10:18:02 So really, I don't think we should change the law for
10:18:08 And while I am here, I would like to thank Mike and his
10:18:16 aides and Mr. Reddick for attending our neighborhood
10:18:19 Thank you so much.
10:18:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mrs. McNair.
10:18:33 >> Jerry Frankhouser, T.H.A.N. president, west Hawthorne
10:18:39 I want to thank you very much for postponing the meeting --
10:18:43 postponing the issues that we have in front of you on item
10:18:47 number 41 and 42, so that T.H.A.N. could discuss them.
10:18:52 We sent you an e-mail with our recommendation.
10:18:55 I hope you all got them.
10:18:58 Most of the people felt that we should oppose having
10:19:03 chickens, continue the way it is in council.
10:19:07 The ruling for chickens.
10:19:10 We don't think that we -- there are some recommendations if
10:19:16 you decide to move forward with them, we have some
10:19:19 recommendations on what could be done to improve the
10:19:26 information that Cathy has given to us.
10:19:31 Cate Coyle has been very helpful to us in all the issues
10:19:35 with the boarding house, the chickens, and also the changes
10:19:41 to the animal code should there be chickens allowed.
10:19:44 Thank you very much.
10:19:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much, sir.
10:19:47 Anyone else in the audience care to speak on the public
10:19:49 segment of this meeting?
10:19:51 I see no one else.
10:19:53 Anyone in the audience care to request reconsideration of
10:19:56 any legislative matters of the last council meeting?
10:19:59 I see no one.
10:20:02 We go to committee reports.
10:20:04 Public Safety Committee chair, Mr. Frank Reddick.
10:20:07 >>FRANK REDDICK: I move items 4 through 6.
10:20:10 >>HARRY COHEN: Second.
10:20:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The ayes have it unanimously.
10:20:20 Parks, recreation, Mary Mulhern.
10:20:25 >>MARY MULHERN: I move 7 through 16.
10:20:28 >> Second.
10:20:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a second by Mr. Reddick.
10:20:31 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
10:20:34 Opposed nay.
10:20:34 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:20:36 Public Works Committee chair, Mr. Mike Suarez.
10:20:39 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I move item 17 through 25.
10:20:41 >>HARRY COHEN: Second.
10:20:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All in favor of that motion please --
10:20:48 excuse me, Mr. Cohen seconded.
10:20:51 All in favor?
10:20:52 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:20:55 Finance Committee chair, Mr. Harry Cohen.
10:20:57 >>HARRY COHEN: I move item number 26.
10:20:59 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Second.
10:21:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mr. Cohen, a second by
10:21:04 Mr. Suarez.
10:21:04 All in favor of that motion?
10:21:08 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:21:10 Building, zoning and preservation committee chair Mrs. Lisa
10:21:13 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I move items 27 through 31.
10:21:17 >>HARRY COHEN: Second.
10:21:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a second by Mr. Cohen.
10:21:21 All in favor of that motion please indicate by saying aye.
10:21:24 Opposed nay.
10:21:25 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:21:26 Transportation committee chair, Yvonne Yolie Capin.
10:21:30 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I move item 32.
10:21:31 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Second.
10:21:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a second by council member Suarez.
10:21:36 All in favor of the motion please indicate by saying aye.
10:21:39 Opposed nay.
10:21:39 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:21:43 We have item 33 is a request for review pertaining to a
10:21:49 property at 3407 to come up before us April the 4th,
10:21:54 2013 at 10:30.
10:21:57 Need a motion to that effect to set a hearing.
10:22:00 Motion by Mrs. Montelione, second by Mr. Suarez.
10:22:03 All in favor?
10:22:12 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:22:13 We go to continued public hearings for second reading.
10:22:19 Motion by Mr. Reddick to open.
10:22:21 Second by Mr. Cohen.
10:22:22 All in favor of that motion?
10:22:25 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:22:26 Item number 34 is now open.
10:22:35 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Planning and development.
10:22:36 There is a request from the applicant to continue.
10:22:38 I believe he just worked out additional lease agreement, and
10:22:41 he needs additional time to do the site plan work for that
10:22:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The applicant is here.
10:22:50 Do you want to verify that?
10:22:57 Do you want to verify that?
10:22:58 You are the applicant.
10:22:59 I take your word but I have to hear it from you.
10:23:02 >> Good morning.
10:23:03 Yes, we finally --
10:23:06 >> I need your name and so forth.
10:23:07 >> With red star Heights, North Howard street.
10:23:12 And we have been working with the state for the property
10:23:16 next to it and it's kind of a slow go with the request we
10:23:20 made, but we finally do have the first version of the lease.
10:23:24 So we will be signing it this week.
10:23:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Has that lease been approved by the city
10:23:30 and legal department?
10:23:32 >> This the is the first version.
10:23:33 We will be signing it and submitting it, but it's there.
10:23:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Anyone in the audience care to speak on
10:23:40 this continuation to the 21st of March?
10:23:42 I see no one.
10:23:44 Continuation to the 21st of March.
10:23:50 >> Yes.
10:23:51 Thank you.
10:23:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mrs. Montelione for
10:23:54 continuation to the 21st of March, at 9:30.
10:23:57 Second by Mr. Cohen.
10:23:58 All in favor of the motion indicate by saying aye.
10:24:00 Opposed nay.
10:24:01 The ayes have it unanimously.
10:24:03 You will be heard on the 21st of March.
10:24:06 Thank you very much.
10:24:07 We go to staff reports now on items 35 through 45.
10:24:11 >> We have individuals here from Connect Tampa Bay.
10:24:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 38, right? Okay.
10:24:24 Item number 38.
10:24:25 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Brian Miklus and Kevin Thurman are here.
10:24:47 They are the leaders of the group.
10:24:48 They are in no way the only members of that group, but I
10:24:53 just want to highlight that these four, Brian Seale, Kevin
10:25:02 Thurman, Brian Willis, and Brandie Miklus are the ones that
10:25:08 the mayor talks about all the time.
10:25:10 I know we have all heard Mayor Buckhorn speak about keeping
10:25:13 the best and the brightest here in Tampa that we want our
10:25:18 young people to graduate from school, either here in Tampa,
10:25:21 and stay here, or leave for school and come back, because
10:25:25 Tampa is a place they want to live.
10:25:29 These four individuals are leaders of the young up and
10:25:35 coming population that we have in the city, and with that I
10:25:41 turn it over to the two of you.
10:25:42 No pressure, guys.
10:25:43 >> Thank you very much for inviting us to speak and thank
10:25:46 you for the kind introduction.
10:25:47 My name is Brian Willis, a residents of the City of Tampa.
10:25:50 And I'm president of Connecticut Tampa Bay.
10:25:54 Kevin is acting as our Executive Director.
10:26:03 We have a pretty good group.
10:26:04 I'm a lawyer.
10:26:05 Brian is a builder.
10:26:05 Brandie is a planner.
10:26:08 I think we have a full skill set rounded out for our
10:26:11 leadership here.
10:26:12 The group was founded less than two months ago because we
10:26:15 really saw a vacuum that was out there in terms of
10:26:18 discussion about moving this community forward and building
10:26:21 a transportation system and having a positive discussion
10:26:23 about transportation options.
10:26:28 In less than two months that we have been operating, through
10:26:31 social media for our first event, through our Web site, we
10:26:34 signed up over 1700 supporters.
10:26:36 What we recognize and what the people who are joining our
10:26:39 group recognize is no matter what happens in 2010, no matter
10:26:43 what happened before that, the need for improving
10:26:46 transportation system in this area has never gone away.
10:26:48 The desire of the majority in Hillsborough and Pinellas to
10:26:52 see real transportation options has never gone away.
10:26:55 The question is not is there a desire for transportation
10:26:58 It's what do those options look like?
10:27:01 And what do we do to make those options happen?
10:27:03 So we view our group right now primarily as a group that's
10:27:07 going out there and listening.
10:27:09 We plan to have community meetings, community forums, house
10:27:12 parties that we are looking to announce soon, and we are
10:27:15 going to be listening to what people want.
10:27:17 Already we are getting a lot of suggestions.
10:27:18 People can go on our Facebook page.
10:27:21 They can find Connect Tampa Bay.
10:27:23 And there's an active discussion going on our Facebook page
10:27:25 about what people want to see in their neighborhoods, in
10:27:28 their communities.
10:27:30 The 2010 referendum passed within the City of Tampa so
10:27:36 there's really no doubt that the people in the City of Tampa
10:27:38 want this.
10:27:38 But one of the great stories that I like to tell is
10:27:40 something I learned about was Plant City used to have a bus
10:27:44 service called the strawberry express that used to circulate
10:27:47 through downtown Plant City.
10:27:48 That got cut a couple years due to budget cuts so one of the
10:27:52 issues that's come to light is the fact that Plant City now
10:27:56 has burst service.
10:27:59 I think that's emblematic of what this group is trying to do
10:28:03 in terms of being a point for people to come together, talk
10:28:05 about what needs they have in their neighborhood, and
10:28:09 support with positive discussion about transportation
10:28:12 options in our region.
10:28:13 So I thank you all for your support.
10:28:15 I thank you all for having us here today.
10:28:17 People want to know more.
10:28:18 They can sign up on our Web site at connectTB.com or go to
10:28:28 Connect Tampa Bay.
10:28:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:28:31 Ms. Mulhern.
10:28:32 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to ask a few questions, and
10:28:39 thank you for what you are doing.
10:28:43 I attended one of your meetings and it was really wonderful
10:28:46 to see young people.
10:28:57 Connect Tampa Bay, when did you start it?
10:29:01 Was it started as Friendship Trail, trying to save that?
10:29:06 >> No, no.
10:29:07 >>MARY MULHERN: That was one of your things you supported?
10:29:11 Is that what it was?
10:29:12 >> No, those are two different -- Brian and I were involved
10:29:16 in that process.
10:29:16 >>MARY MULHERN: What was that?
10:29:18 >> Kind of the genesis of this group, ways on the TBARTA
10:29:29 advisory committee several years ago, and through various
10:29:32 transportation groups, I met both Brian and Brandie and they
10:29:37 have been involved in this issue as well.
10:29:38 And because I was independently involved in the Friendship
10:29:41 Trailbridge issue, and our interests matched up, we would
10:29:46 move on to this.
10:29:47 >>MARY MULHERN: And I told you guys about my concerns at
10:29:49 that meeting, that it's been probably 20 years of people
10:29:55 here trying to get these regional transportation solutions
10:29:59 And that what you are doing is fantastic, and I'm glad to
10:30:04 hear that you were involved in TBARTA.
10:30:06 So I want to just kind of get an idea of what your
10:30:09 organization is.
10:30:10 Are you just grassroots?
10:30:12 Are you working with anyone?
10:30:13 Is it a funded, not for profit?
10:30:16 >> We are fully a grassroots organization.
10:30:19 We are funded, but we are funded by individual donations.
10:30:25 In terms of what we are doing, and how we are going, the
10:30:28 idea of a grassroots organization is we are trying to get
10:30:33 the conversation of transportation from the citizen level,
10:30:35 and move that forward.
10:30:37 And so what Brian mentioned is we are focusing right now on
10:30:40 having people have house parties, you know, so they bring
10:30:44 people into their own home, talk about transportation on a
10:30:46 personal level, and then we can bring that conversation, and
10:30:49 what they are looking for together and bring that both to
10:30:54 this body and the county commission and TBARTA and Hart and
10:30:57 all those organizations to help them kind of get people
10:31:02 advocating and talking about this issue moving forward.
10:31:05 Because, oh, we are worried about going forward with that
10:31:10 because of the referendum, but transportation and people's
10:31:14 desires don't go away.
10:31:15 >>MARY MULHERN: I think it's great what you are doing.
10:31:17 My only concern is if you are -- I think if you are really
10:31:22 doing a listening tour to share that information, but to
10:31:28 I personally was on the MPO for six years and was on council
10:31:30 when we started TBARTA, and went to those initial meetings.
10:31:36 And I am on the Regional Planning Council where we are
10:31:39 talking about transportation issues.
10:31:40 And I know Pinellas looks like they are going to put a
10:31:44 referendum on the ballot.
10:31:46 And my worry -- and I want you to think about this and talk
10:31:49 about this -- is that I believe this needs to be a
10:31:52 Hillsborough County referendum.
10:31:55 I don't think -- if you want to get this done soon, it's not
10:32:00 going to happen as a city, simply a city referendum.
10:32:04 And I think the good news is all the research and the focus
10:32:08 groups and everything that the MPO, and moving Hillsborough
10:32:13 forward did, so it can pass in the county.
10:32:14 I think it really can.
10:32:16 And what we found out from that, a lot of the problems, you
10:32:23 know what the problems are.
10:32:26 But we need to be able to have a really strong product
10:32:30 that's going to work.
10:32:31 And I'm worried about limiting it to saying, oh, we are
10:32:35 going to try to pass something in the city because it
10:32:38 doesn't make sense as a regional solution to have a city, a
10:32:42 county, that we are trying to connect with another county
10:32:45 across the bay, have a city project, and just logistically
10:32:51 fundingwise, getting funding from the feds, all of that.
10:32:54 I think it needs a countywide referendum.
10:33:01 And I don't hear anyone saying that.
10:33:03 But that's why I am saying it today.
10:33:06 Thank you for everything you are doing.
10:33:07 >> I think that's great.
10:33:10 I think that that's why we are here, for that discussion.
10:33:13 Having sat on the TBARTA board, you have been around it.
10:33:16 It's easy in some ways for it to be at an agency and put
10:33:20 lines on a map and go out and try to sell it.
10:33:22 Way always felt the gap was going the other direction was
10:33:25 going out to people.
10:33:26 So hopefully we are going to have house meetings all over
10:33:29 the county, and hopefully what we can do is facilitate that
10:33:32 discussion in the county and kind of see what they would
10:33:34 want to support.
10:33:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Cohen?
10:33:38 >>HARRY COHEN: Thank you very much.
10:33:38 I just wanted to comment on something that Councilwoman
10:33:42 Mulhern said.
10:33:43 Actually, this council, I believe, voted in support of the
10:33:47 concept of a city-wide referendum.
10:33:50 That, however, is not permitted under Florida law at this
10:33:53 time, and it would take an act of the legislature, allowing
10:33:58 cities of a certain size to hold that type of a referendum
10:34:01 in order to go forward with something like that.
10:34:04 One of the things that I have observed as a member of the
10:34:11 MPO is that in some of the analysis that's been done, the
10:34:14 failed referendum in 2010, one of the key feedings is that
10:34:20 people have an inherent distrust of government, and they are
10:34:25 very skeptical about paying any additional money,
10:34:30 particularly when a very specific and detailed plan is not
10:34:33 on the table.
10:34:35 And what we have learned about developing a specific and
10:34:39 detailed plan is that that itself costs money, and that is,
10:34:44 I think, one of our challenges going forward, is actually
10:34:49 finding the money to study it in such a way that we could
10:34:53 put forward something to the voters that didn't rely on a
10:34:58 lot of sort of, you know, vague plans about what the program
10:35:05 is going to be.
10:35:06 So that's just an observation for me to think about as you
10:35:11 move forward.
10:35:13 And I think that's actually one of the key things, key
10:35:17 decisions that need to be made, a commitment to being able
10:35:20 to put forward plans and move forward with our
10:35:22 transportation plans.
10:35:23 And I think that goes to, you know, we can't limit ourselves
10:35:28 to any single solution in any single way.
10:35:37 Right now, we don't have lines on maps and we have no money.
10:35:41 So the reality is we are trying to get that done.
10:35:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Suarez.
10:35:44 >>MIKE SUAREZ:
10:35:48 >> The other point --
10:35:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have to cut you off.
10:35:50 I have to be somewhere and I want to vote on this agenda
10:35:54 But if you want to come back you are welcome.
10:35:56 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I want to make a comment that both these
10:35:59 young men, in addition to those other members that are part
10:36:02 of the Connect Tampa Bay, are doing the one thing that they
10:36:04 should have done the first time, which is getting the
10:36:07 grassroots involved, and to start the process of preparing
10:36:11 people for transit.
10:36:13 And the last referenda was, like so many other battles that
10:36:18 are lost, you have the wrong generals with the wrong terrain
10:36:23 at the wrong time.
10:36:24 And I think now is the time for us to start doing this kind
10:36:26 of groundwork.
10:36:28 I think that folks like myself and my colleagues that serve
10:36:33 on the MPO understand that there's a lot to go forward as a
10:36:38 member of Hart's board.
10:36:40 It is something that we need to keep the pressure on so that
10:36:43 people understand what transit means and what it doesn't
10:36:46 mean, and explain to them how this is going to work.
10:36:49 So I just wanted to thank you and appreciate you coming here
10:36:52 and telling us a little bit more about your organization.
10:36:55 Thank you, chair.
10:36:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:36:57 Thank you for peering.
10:36:58 Item number 35.
10:37:06 >>DAVE VAUGHAN: Director of contract administration, and
10:37:08 also here with members of the city attorney's office, and
10:37:13 Justin Vaske, assistant city attorney, provided you with a
10:37:17 report related to the request that you made about the
10:37:20 possibility of modifying a requirement to indicate whether
10:37:24 or not they had been defaulted with the city before.
10:37:29 One clarification that will be helpful, I hope, is that when
10:37:34 this conversation originally came about, the question was,
10:37:37 is there a box on our forms?
10:37:40 And in that council meeting, we were talking about lots of
10:37:43 boxes on lots of forms, and my immediate answer was, no, we
10:37:46 don't have a box.
10:37:47 The reality is as we tried to point out on the report is
10:37:52 that there is a fair amount of long in -- language in our
10:37:56 existing code about the review of bids and the determination
10:37:58 of the person that we -- the entity that when should be
10:38:01 awarding to.
10:38:03 That language is mirrored in our contract document.
10:38:06 The signature, the bid that is submitted attests to the fact
10:38:11 and declares not in default or has ever been in default to
10:38:15 the city.
10:38:16 That information is reviewed along with the user department
10:38:19 and as appropriate with the legal department before we
10:38:21 recommend award.
10:38:22 If we don't award to the low bidder, that identified to you
10:38:26 in the resolution and the package that comes forward, we are
10:38:29 not doing that, and the reality is, since the creation of
10:38:34 contract administration in 2004, 2005, and frankly as long
10:38:38 as I can remember before that, there is not an entity
10:38:43 received, a council contract that has previously been
10:38:47 defaulted on with the city.
10:38:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Those are on page 2 and page 3 of your
10:38:52 Mrs. Montelione.
10:38:53 >>LISA MONTELIONE: There was actually another element to
10:38:58 the concerns that I had.
10:39:00 And the reason it came up -- and I see Mr. Slater sitting
10:39:03 there -- is something that I saw on some of the regular
10:39:07 motions that we have for covering the expenses of code
10:39:11 enforcement to abate property whether it be mowing or
10:39:18 removing a dwelling from a lot because of its condition.
10:39:21 And I review those motions he have single time and look at
10:39:23 the names of the companies or individuals who own the
10:39:26 property that we are abating, and then they owe us to place
10:39:33 a lean on their property and reimburse us for the money
10:39:36 spent, and I notice a couple of companies that we do
10:39:39 business with, we give contracts to, were on those lists.
10:39:43 So that's another point.
10:39:46 Not just have they ever defaulted on a contract with the
10:39:52 Because most of our city contracts, he specially those with
10:39:55 high dollar amounts, construction companies are general
10:39:58 contractors are placing bonds with the city.
10:40:00 So if they default we go after the bonds.
10:40:03 If we get our money back, it's a little more work for us
10:40:06 because we actually have to pursue the insurance company
10:40:08 that holds the bond.
10:40:10 But at which we are doing right now with one of the projects
10:40:15 in Sulphur Springs.
10:40:17 And it was my concern as well, are these companies in debt
10:40:24 to the city?
10:40:25 Not specifically defaulted to the city, but are they
10:40:31 invested to the city for any other amount?
10:40:33 And at that time, one of the things that jumped out at me
10:40:36 when I asked about the box on the form was, do you owe the
10:40:42 City of Tampa any money?
10:40:44 Plain and simple.
10:40:45 And for anything.
10:40:49 Because I don't want to give -- I don't want to give
10:40:52 contracts to folks who owe us money.
10:40:53 >> If you will look on the attachment that's included in my
10:40:58 report, part of that declaration is not only are you in
10:41:01 default, but are you in arrears to the city?
10:41:04 So there is that mechanism and that requirement for them to
10:41:08 declare that on the bid.
10:41:10 I will share with you certainly something that needs to be
10:41:14 discussed and followed up on, is that the contracts that I'm
10:41:18 talking about are capital construction contracts.
10:41:22 The ones you are referring to are not ones that we touch.
10:41:27 They go through the purchasing department.
10:41:31 And they may want to talk about it.
10:41:33 The city attorney reminded me that recently on the solid
10:41:37 waste contract that this very issue came up and was part of
10:41:40 going forward with that contract, which again was --
10:41:45 >> I guess I am looking to be a little more proactive
10:41:48 instead of reactive, because all the cases that you
10:41:52 reference and Mr. Shimberg reference are things that we
10:41:55 found out after the fact, and have to deal with.
10:41:59 And maybe there's more work that needs to be done and we
10:42:02 need to bring this into the conversation.
10:42:03 >> It's a conversation that needs to happen.
10:42:08 Two comments.
10:42:08 As we are moving forward with the ERP and the consolidated
10:42:12 software program, there is a convergence of the way that we
10:42:15 are severing bids and how they are going to be so that there
10:42:18 is going to be more of an interface between contract
10:42:22 administration and purchasing.
10:42:23 That will help so that we don't have two separate lists that
10:42:28 are looked at.
10:42:29 And the other thing is that just because there's a
10:42:32 declaration on the bid doesn't mean that we don't look at
10:42:36 There is a specific review that takes place after every bid
10:42:40 is open, not just by contract administration, but with the
10:42:42 user department that is going to have to operate and
10:42:47 maintain and use the facility, and where appropriate, if
10:42:52 there's an issue, bring legal into that so that we are
10:42:55 bringing forth folks that we believe are appropriate to
10:42:59 award to, and that are able to do the work.
10:43:01 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So I guess after the ERP system is in
10:43:07 place it would be an appropriate time to revisit to make
10:43:09 sure that all of the interfaces that we hope to have in
10:43:13 place are working properly, and that we don't have -- we
10:43:19 aren't doing business with people who owe us money.
10:43:23 >>DAVE VAUGHAN: Certainly.
10:43:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Suarez?
10:43:26 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Mr. Vaughan, I want to piggyback on what
10:43:29 Councilwoman Montelione is saying.
10:43:32 The last time, with he we actually first discussed this, she
10:43:35 had mentioned a couple of folks that were in arrears for
10:43:39 some of the abatement issues that she just mentioned.
10:43:42 The language that's in the contract, in the bidding
10:43:44 contract, is very broad.
10:43:46 It is not a specific thing concerning contracts or other
10:43:52 specific aspects of what they are bidding on.
10:43:54 And it really is, if you are in arrears or in debt to the
10:43:59 Now, again, I don't know the definition of what debt is when
10:44:02 it comes to an abatement.
10:44:04 But my guess is that that is an arrears to the city.
10:44:08 I think that you are right, we do have a problem with
10:44:11 technology in terms of attracting them.
10:44:13 But I do have a problem with you saying that, you know, we
10:44:17 read these.
10:44:18 If we read these, we would have -- I think that Mrs.
10:44:24 Montelione brought that up to us, that there are they're
10:44:27 were companies that had contracts with us that have been in
10:44:29 arrears on abatement.
10:44:31 So you can't have one and the other.
10:44:32 If you are going to have the contract with the language in
10:44:34 there, you have got to read it and you have got to get
10:44:37 somebody that's going to look at it, find out about it, and
10:44:40 really, you know, cross the T and do it an I.
10:44:43 So I'm a little bit put back by your answer, not because you
10:44:46 have done anything wrong, Mr. Vaughan, it's just that we
10:44:50 have to take our contract seriously, when we write them, and
10:44:54 what the language actually means.
10:44:55 Because if we are talking about being in debtor arrears --
10:44:58 and it's very general.
10:44:59 There's nothing on here that is specific types of debt.
10:45:03 It is debt to the city, arrears to the city, period.
10:45:09 So no one is checking this in other parts of the city.
10:45:12 Why have this in the contract to begin with?
10:45:15 And again, that's something that you have inherited, I'm
10:45:17 sure, and it is something that is, you know, memorial that
10:45:22 we have been doing, but somebody better start waking up in
10:45:24 your department and in purchasing and in every other
10:45:26 department in the city, that they start reading the
10:45:29 contracts that we are signing, and that the other folks are
10:45:32 signing to make sure we get our money, no matter where it's
10:45:35 So I just wanted to point that out to you.
10:45:38 I don't think that's an excuse that we don't have a system
10:45:41 in place.
10:45:42 It is your responsibility and the people on your staff to
10:45:45 find this out, because it's in the contract.
10:45:49 And again I am not trying to beat up on you.
10:45:51 But at the same time we definitely need to do this.
10:45:53 So I would suspect that you will go back and make sure that
10:45:56 anyone, any name, entity, any individual, that owes us money
10:46:00 and is going to contract with us, that you find out whether
10:46:03 or not they have got any kind of a debtor arrears with us.
10:46:07 And I just say that because it's there in black and white.
10:46:12 We need to get it done.
10:46:13 Again I apologize.
10:46:14 He don't want to beat up on you.
10:46:16 But at the same time it has to be done.
10:46:18 I appreciate it.
10:46:18 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Mr. Vaughan, do you know when the ERP is
10:46:24 going to be just ballpark up and running?
10:46:27 >> No, we don't have a box answer again.
10:46:35 I know that the first wave of what is going in the spring
10:46:41 involves many of the base financial sorts of things.
10:46:46 >> Mr. Rogero is here.
10:46:49 >> Yes.
10:46:50 I believe it's later on this summer when it implemented.
10:46:54 So we are not years away.
10:46:55 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So looking at scheduling a follow-up
10:47:00 staff report for November or December, the very end of the
10:47:03 year, we might have some indication by the end of the year,
10:47:08 if the ERP system is giving us the results for this
10:47:13 particular issue that we were looking for?
10:47:14 >> Right.
10:47:16 Certainly in the meantime we can follow up on a particular
10:47:22 Again, I don't wants to give you -- we don't have a box kind
10:47:25 of answer, because I believe the examples of folks that we
10:47:30 have awarded contracts -- I'm not sure they involve capital
10:47:34 It may all be in the purchasing arena.
10:47:36 >> Okay.
10:47:38 So the other thing I just want to add, the a basements or
10:47:45 other dollar amounts that may be owed to the city, I mean,
10:47:51 parking tickets, a scofflaw, you know, those kinds of
10:47:55 things, so any debt to the city is a broad category.
10:47:57 But they could happen after we have already awarded the
10:48:02 So we could have a vendor that we are doing regular business
10:48:05 with or they are building a capital improvement project for
10:48:08 And then something happens where they end up owing us money
10:48:13 so it's a matter of continually, you know, checking to see
10:48:15 that we are not continuing new business with someone that
10:48:19 owes this money.
10:48:20 So that's just another thing to add.
10:48:22 I would like to motion that staff report be brought back on
10:48:25 November 7th of 2013 to discuss the subject of doing
10:48:32 business with either under contract administration or the
10:48:35 purchasing department with companies who may be in arrears
10:48:39 to the city, and the efficacy of the ERP program, the ERP
10:48:47 technology, to see that those issues are being handled from
10:48:53 a technology standpoint.
10:48:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I have a motion by Mrs. Montelione,
10:48:57 seconded by Mr. Cohen on that item.
10:49:00 All in favor of the motion?
10:49:03 The ayes have it.
10:49:05 Thank you very much, sir.
10:49:06 Item 36.
10:49:07 >>JAKE SLATER: Neighborhood services director, City of
10:49:17 I'm here to report on the merger of code enforcement in the
10:49:26 clean city division a few weeks ago.
10:49:28 We are in the process of implementing a bunch of great ideas
10:49:31 and a great overall policy and process.
10:49:37 If I can show this on the Elmo.
10:49:39 I believe Dennis will be handing out a couple of maps for
10:49:42 the City Council.
10:49:43 This will show the council members how we have divided the
10:49:46 city into four separate quadrants.
10:49:52 And our overall plan is with the neighborhood enhancement
10:49:58 teams, we are going to have one team assigned to each of the
10:50:03 quadrants in the City of Tampa with an additional 15 as a
10:50:08 rapid response team.
10:50:10 These teams will be made up of code enforcement officers,
10:50:17 supervisors, city staff.
10:50:24 We are excited about this, because, number one, we can
10:50:28 increase the response times substantially.
10:50:30 That's been a major issue with the clean city, overall staff
10:50:35 and code enforcement staff.
10:50:36 Accountability will increase.
10:50:38 It will eliminate the emergency situations coming up and
10:50:43 having the time factors.
10:50:46 It will improve the alleyway maintenance.
10:50:49 It will improve the service on the major thoroughfares and
10:50:52 corridors of the City of Tampa.
10:50:54 It will improve the various items such as the city abatement
10:50:57 for the site treatments.
10:50:59 And the overall blight in the neighborhoods.
10:51:03 If you take a look at the maps, you are going to see it's
10:51:08 very similar to the overall layout by the council areas.
10:51:14 And we did this for a purpose, just to have quick response
10:51:18 to your concerns.
10:51:25 This is a draft of the team layouts that we are going to be
10:51:30 implementing in the next couple of weeks.
10:51:37 The blue boxes indicate code enforcement, and the groan
10:51:40 boxes indicate the neighborhood services team.
10:51:42 As you can see, they are going to be integrated in
10:51:45 individual teams, working out in the neighborhoods, being
10:51:50 able to respond to those code enforcement situations,
10:51:55 neighborhood blight issues, in a much more timely manner.
10:51:58 That's one of the things that we had to address.
10:52:11 This is going to be our rapid response team which will
10:52:15 consist of the tree service teams, the city abatement teams,
10:52:18 herbicide teams.
10:52:20 And being that the East Tampa CRA is before the neighborhood
10:52:27 staff members is that the overall manpower in the East Tampa
10:52:30 will be probably about three or four more staff members than
10:52:34 the other cities' areas.
10:52:37 And as you know, the East Tampa area, Sulphur Springs,
10:52:41 central Tampa, has most of the code offenses occurring.
10:52:49 As an example, and you know the areas, this is an alleyway
10:52:57 that we dealt with last woke.
10:53:01 This normally would have taken us two weeks to actually
10:53:03 clean up with the process of the paperwork, assignments of
10:53:07 duties, time factors.
10:53:10 We did this in two days.
10:53:14 Two days.
10:53:18 Immediate response, get the problem solved, get the workers
10:53:21 out there.
10:53:22 Two-day turnaround.
10:53:25 Another issue which we are going to be dealing with is
10:53:28 illegal dumping on the rights-of-way.
10:53:30 We are going to be working with solid waste.
10:53:34 As you know, solid waste, it takes several days for solid
10:53:40 waste to come out and to actually pick them up, if it's on
10:53:43 the right-of-way.
10:53:44 >>FRANK REDDICK: That's my picture that I sent you.
10:53:51 [ Laughter ]
10:53:55 >>JAKE SLATER: Yes, sir.
10:53:56 Thank you.
10:54:02 [ Laughter ]
10:54:02 We are going to be dealing with this type of situation in a
10:54:04 matter of two or three days.
10:54:05 I'm excited about this.
10:54:06 This is going to work with the City of Tampa.
10:54:08 And this is going to be a good overall program.
10:54:13 I'm excited about it.
10:54:16 Any questions?
10:54:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Questions by council members?
10:54:19 Thank you very much.
10:54:19 >>FRANK REDDICK: I have a comment, Mr. Chair.
10:54:24 I hope that what you just laid out to us today will expedite
10:54:32 the picture that you just showed and remove that filth.
10:54:36 It's an eyesore in that neighborhood.
10:54:40 And when the citizen called in, it's two weeks, because
10:54:46 kicking somebody out of the house and they throw it out
10:54:49 And it was worse than that.
10:54:51 People came by and stole some of the stuff that was out
10:54:54 So that's what's remaining.
10:54:55 >> Reuse and recycle.
10:54:58 >>FRANK REDDICK: Yes.
10:55:00 I'm just happy to hear that this process will help expedite
10:55:04 some of the complaints that you receive and the calls you
10:55:07 So hopefully this will help tremendously throughout the
10:55:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
10:55:15 Mr. Suarez?
10:55:15 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Jake, thanks so much.
10:55:18 Very good work.
10:55:20 You have answered C on the motion.
10:55:25 And I don't know if you would answer the other two, which is
10:55:30 part of the audit, the process.
10:55:32 I wasn't sure if Dennis is here to answer those questions.
10:55:35 He's here for a reason.
10:55:38 If you can answer A and B, which is what process we put in
10:55:41 place to kind of solve the problems that were put in the
10:55:43 audit, and what those processes are.
10:55:48 Thank you.
10:55:52 Dennis Rogero.
10:55:54 Thank you again for having me here.
10:55:56 I don't know if you all have a bona fide copy of the audit
10:55:59 before you, but I can speak to the issues that were raised,
10:56:01 the recommendations of the internal audit department, and
10:56:05 our responses and the status of our responses.
10:56:08 In a nutshell, the first three items of the internal audit
10:56:12 are centered on credit card purchases.
10:56:16 And what appears to be a lack of oversight.
10:56:19 We have addressed each of those.
10:56:22 The first one was using credit card purchase force official
10:56:26 city business.
10:56:26 The was credit card purchases is not only always supported
10:56:31 with the documentation, went back and reviewed the
10:56:34 The third was credit card transaction would appear to be an
10:56:39 attempt to circumvent our purchasing.
10:56:43 We have completed our response to all three of those and
10:56:47 they involve a couple of things.
10:56:48 First credit card purchase consolidation.
10:56:50 The only individuals making credit card purchases now are
10:56:54 the supervisors.
10:56:55 All credit card purchases are reconciled in Mr. Slater's
10:57:00 office and he personally endorses all credit card purchases
10:57:03 after that review.
10:57:04 And, of course, by consigning or limiting the personnel with
10:57:09 ho make credit card purchases and reviewing them, we'll
10:57:12 identify any discrepancies in the future, and if and when
10:57:16 they come forward.
10:57:17 So we consider the first three items involving credit cards
10:57:21 transactions to be complete from our response to internal
10:57:26 The fourth item was in-house property maintenance, and the
10:57:30 recommendations of the internal auditor was tracking the
10:57:32 view and reconciliation of weekly maintenance work plans,
10:57:36 which is pretty much a stage 2 process because ultimately
10:57:39 the in-house property maintenance will be addressed by our
10:57:43 TMA work maintenance system which is not yet online, but I'm
10:57:46 sure you probably heard about it.
10:57:49 You probably heard the technology and innovation department.
10:57:53 But in the interim, we have a district supervisor overseeing
10:58:02 approved city personnel, and we are developing daily
10:58:05 maintenance work sheets in conjunction with the
10:58:07 participation of our clean city or former clean city
10:58:10 enforcement staff and working with the solid waste
10:58:13 department who has a pretty good track record, no pun
10:58:19 intended, of track maintenance.
10:58:21 So we are working with them.
10:58:22 So I would identify this as "in process."
10:58:25 In addition -- and again this is all about in-house property
10:58:29 maintenance -- we review with supervisors ongoing and we are
10:58:35 continuing to refine those as we work on those work sheets.
10:58:38 Ultimately, consolidated reports will be reviewed by
10:58:44 director Slater and the supervisors on a monthly basis. So
10:58:47 right now we are preoccupied with setting a good framework
10:58:51 or template for tracking the work and then have a plan to
10:58:55 continue monitoring that work.
10:58:56 So I would identify this as "in process."
10:59:00 Also, as we await the new manager, Mr. Rogero, he will also
10:59:05 have a vital impact in terms of what he will be looking for
10:59:08 from his team to report to director Slater.
10:59:12 That was item number 4.
10:59:14 Item number 5.
10:59:15 Contract property maintenance.
10:59:18 This was a very big concern for us, as you will recall,
10:59:20 especially when I put my budget hat on, over $1 million
10:59:24 worth of contract maintenance.
10:59:28 There were a number of recommendations by the internal audit
10:59:31 department some of which are complete, some of which are
10:59:33 still in process.
10:59:34 The first was to create a master list of properties
10:59:37 maintained for each agreement.
10:59:39 We have done that.
10:59:40 We have a master list now.
10:59:41 Require contractors to using unique control number and exact
10:59:45 property descriptions.
10:59:46 That's in process.
10:59:47 We don't have that complete yet but we are working it.
10:59:50 Reconcile existing square footage discrepancies.
10:59:53 Again, we are working that.
10:59:55 Retain evidence authorizing additions and deletions to Seth
11:00:00 said contracts.
11:00:00 We have that.
11:00:01 We have completed that.
11:00:03 Going forward, any augmentation or reduction in
11:00:06 responsibility associated with the contracts we'll track it.
11:00:10 And revise our monitoring based on that course.
11:00:14 Development and section plan for contracted properties in
11:00:17 process, and as you know, we are working with the Parks and
11:00:20 Recreation Department in transitioning some of those
11:00:24 contracts to their personnel.
11:00:28 We have got landscape architects on staff, and personnel who
11:00:35 can elevate the level of review above just maybe mowing and
11:00:39 tree trimming that gateways should look aesthetically.
11:00:47 We have staff out there that are very capable of mowing and
11:00:50 tree trimming, but the Parks and Recreation Department
11:00:52 personnel can bring a high level to review.
11:00:56 >>LISA MONTELIONE: If I may?
11:00:59 Thank you, Mr. Chair.
11:01:00 I'm glad you brought that up because that is one thing that
11:01:02 I expressed to Jake when I met with him two days ago, was
11:01:08 hesitation for me, because as you know, clean cities, I
11:01:12 think I used the term passed around like a football over the
11:01:17 years since they had been established.
11:01:19 And one of those functions is, as you said, important to
11:01:24 maintain our appeal, aesthetics, and the gateways and the
11:01:30 medians, and how things look.
11:01:33 Now, parks and recreation has a new director.
11:01:37 But, you know, his focus is on the programming in the parks
11:01:42 and we are all very, very grateful for that, because
11:01:45 programming is what we need in our parks.
11:01:48 But I don't see that maintenance is something that the Parks
11:01:52 Department is charged with doing.
11:01:55 I mean, it seems to me more aligned with what code
11:01:59 enforcement does, and what neighborhood services does in
11:02:03 maintaining lots and maintaining rights-of-way and getting
11:02:06 the trash cleaned up, and those sort of things.
11:02:09 And the idea that parks has landscape architects.
11:02:16 Well, when we institute a program for the gateways, we go
11:02:20 through contract administration to put out an RFP, and a bid
11:02:28 process for a landscape company to do that work.
11:02:31 So I don't see the idea that there are landscape architects
11:02:37 who work in parks and rec has anything to do with
11:02:40 maintaining those rights-of-way.
11:02:41 And I really have a fear and a concern that putting a
11:02:48 maintenance function inside a department that is tasked with
11:02:54 parks, and our programs for our children -- and I hate to
11:02:59 use children and seniors -- but for all of our citizens to
11:03:02 maintain healthy active lifestyles has anything to do with
11:03:06 maintaining medians in the right-of-way.
11:03:08 So that's a really big concern for me.
11:03:12 And I don't want to see that function again passed around
11:03:16 after it turns out that may not the right fit and then it
11:03:21 comes back, and it becomes that football once again.
11:03:23 >> I absolutely understand.
11:03:26 That's been part of the dialogue we have been having with
11:03:28 the Parks and Recreation Department.
11:03:30 And one of the centerpieces of our discussion is where
11:03:33 should this responsibility ideally land?
11:03:37 And I'll just use landscape architects as an example.
11:03:40 From that perspective, it's not necessarily associated with
11:03:44 maintaining thing the property but ensuring that the
11:03:47 properties are maintained to the level that we expect to the
11:03:50 visual appeal, to the aesthetics.
11:03:53 And as we think about this, and as we dialogue with the
11:03:56 Parks and Recreation Department, you know, the financial
11:04:00 resolutions, for instance, given the associated funding, or
11:04:05 associated funding from code enforcement, clean skis cities,
11:04:09 to parks and recreation.
11:04:10 We are trying to meet a couple of different goals.
11:04:12 We want to make sure the aesthetics are maintained, because
11:04:15 we have had examples that simply weren't, through no fault
11:04:18 of anybody, in my opinion.
11:04:19 We want to make sure the aesthetics are maintained.
11:04:23 We want to make sure parks and recreation -- we don't
11:04:26 cannibalize their existing resources to take on this
11:04:28 additional function.
11:04:29 That's an absolutely concern from the Parks and Recreation
11:04:32 Department and a concern of ours from the budget office.
11:04:35 So as we hash this out, many of the points that you have
11:04:39 made have been part of the dialogue.
11:04:41 So I appreciate it.
11:04:42 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you very much.
11:04:45 You mentioned that resolution and that was the reason I met
11:04:47 with Mr. Slater a couple of days ago because I had grave
11:04:50 reservations about that transfer of $250,000.
11:04:58 I agree with it.
11:04:59 I wouldn't pull the agenda item.
11:05:01 But I did have serious reservations about it, and moving
11:05:04 that function over to parks.
11:05:06 And -- I lost my train of thought.
11:05:12 You bring up the financial.
11:05:15 The other very, very large concern is we are going to be
11:05:18 going into budget very soon.
11:05:21 And code enforcement, we hear it from every -- at every
11:05:26 council meeting.
11:05:27 Code enforcement needs financing.
11:05:30 And the idea that they are going to take on neighborhood
11:05:33 services is going to take on all of these additional
11:05:38 They need to be supported financially.
11:05:40 You and I have had many conversations about that.
11:05:42 So I urge you really, don't cut any money, and allocate
11:05:48 Every penny needs to go in that we have fair change needs to
11:05:53 go into code enforcement.
11:05:54 >> Thank you.
11:05:55 I appreciate that perspective.
11:05:56 It's our intent, and I'm very confident we will be able to
11:06:00 We don't want to overload the wagon and not worry about the
11:06:06 mules, as my dad used to say.
11:06:09 I can say the dialogue is going so well because dialogue
11:06:13 often goes well interdepartmentally, talking about money,
11:06:19 and the dialogue has been very good, and I thank Parks and
11:06:21 Recreation Department and Brad Baird.
11:06:27 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilman Reddick.
11:06:29 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
11:06:31 How many departments come under the direction of Mr. Slater?
11:06:36 >> He has one department, the neighborhood services
11:06:38 department consisting of neighborhood enhancement, with I
11:06:42 now is in the form of clean cities differentiation and code
11:06:45 enforcement division, community relations, and community
11:06:51 Am I missing any?
11:06:55 >> JAKE SLATER: And business tax.
11:06:57 >> That's fine.
11:07:01 Five divisions under one department.
11:07:02 Yes, sir.
11:07:03 >>FRANK REDDICK: That seems like a heavy responsibility to
11:07:09 have that many under one person, that all of these people
11:07:14 report directly to you?
11:07:18 Late slate that has happened in the past, but the new
11:07:21 overall manager comes to the board, the manager is going to
11:07:23 be overseeing code enforcement and the neighborhood services
11:07:28 >>FRANK REDDICK: Let me ask you.
11:07:30 Did you say community affairs?
11:07:34 >>FRANK REDDICK: Yes, sir.
11:07:40 >> You have community affairs?
11:07:42 >>JAKE SLATER: Yes, sir, I do.
11:07:44 >>FRANK REDDICK: I hadn't heard that.
11:07:47 Later on, I am going to make a motion to have you come and
11:07:52 provide us an update on the community affairs department,
11:07:55 and the services that are provided, because I thought they
11:07:58 had faded out over the years.
11:08:00 I didn't know it was still functioning with the city.
11:08:02 >>JAKE SLATER: I oversee the department which encompasses a
11:08:06 total of four people.
11:08:07 >>FRANK REDDICK: We'll have you come and give us an update.
11:08:15 I thought that was gone.
11:08:17 I'm surprised when I just heard it.
11:08:19 Thank you.
11:08:20 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilwoman Mulhern.
11:08:22 >>MARY MULHERN: He brought up some questions.
11:08:29 But I want to understand, can you go through those five
11:08:34 departments that you oversee?
11:08:36 >>JAKE SLATER: Code enforcement.
11:08:38 Clean city which is now going to be called neighborhood
11:08:41 Business tax.
11:08:42 Community relations.
11:08:44 And community affairs.
11:08:45 >>MARY MULHERN: What happened to neighborhood services?
11:08:51 Is that in one of those?
11:08:54 We used to have a neighborhood services.
11:08:57 >>JAKE SLATER: Community relations, and then neighborhood
11:08:59 services, I guess is one that Shannon Edge's group.
11:09:02 Is that what you are talking about?
11:09:04 >> Where is that now?
11:09:07 >> Understood me, too.
11:09:08 >> Is that under another department or community affairs or
11:09:10 community relations?
11:09:14 Community services?
11:09:18 >> The community relations neighborhood services.
11:09:20 >>MARY MULHERN: Community services relations neighborhood
11:09:24 services. Okay.
11:09:25 I think it would be really helpful if you came back and kind
11:09:27 of gave us an update.
11:09:29 >> I would be more than happy to do that.
11:09:31 >> Are there any other questions from council members?
11:09:36 If not, Mr. Reddick, do you want to go ahead and make that
11:09:38 motion now?
11:09:44 >>FRANK REDDICK: Mr. Chair, I would like to make a motion
11:09:49 that Mr. Slater or his designee come back and report to
11:09:55 council on the community affairs and community --
11:09:59 neighborhood service s, all his departments, give us an
11:10:05 update on the departments under code enforcement.
11:10:08 We know you do that and we know you are doing neighborhood
11:10:12 But didn't know all these others came under.
11:10:15 Maybe give us a brief overview of all of those various
11:10:20 >> Second.
11:10:22 >>HARRY COHEN: And maybe do that March 21st at 10:00?
11:10:26 >>FRANK REDDICK: March 21st at 10.
11:10:28 >> I would be more than happy to do that.
11:10:30 >>HARRY COHEN: Motion by Councilman Reddick, seconded by
11:10:33 Councilwoman Montelione.
11:10:37 Thank you very much.
11:10:37 Are there any other questions or comments from council
11:10:39 members on this item?
11:10:41 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Chair, I think the only thing, haven't gone
11:10:46 through the other recommendations and how we actually but
11:10:49 them into place and two that are most important to me are
11:10:52 coming up which is the recommendation on 6 which is work
11:10:55 performed on non-city property, plus the way that we handle
11:10:58 equipment after we purchase them.
11:11:00 And I think that was kind of one of the main things that we
11:11:03 had talked about, the last time, when the audit first came
11:11:06 through, if you don't mind.
11:11:07 >>> Continuing on, and before I forget, let me state that
11:11:14 director Slater has broad shoulders as you all know and he
11:11:19 does a wonderful job, I think, juggling his
11:11:22 Item number 6 was work performed on non-city property,
11:11:26 recommendation was obtain authorization from the
11:11:28 administration prayer to any improvement where we would
11:11:32 entertain doing work on non-city properties, and we have
11:11:35 implemented that.
11:11:36 Anytime the administration considers work on non-city
11:11:40 property, it has to have director Slater's endorsement.
11:11:43 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilwoman Capin.
11:11:51 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Was there any finding of financial gain by
11:11:58 >> There was not.
11:12:01 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Thank you.
11:12:03 >> You're welcome.
11:12:04 I don't imagine going forward that there will be a lot of
11:12:07 off-city property activity, but I do imagine there will be
11:12:10 instances where it's in the best interest of the city to do
11:12:13 something like that, and of course director Slater will make
11:12:16 that decision ahead of time as opposed to work being done
11:12:20 off city property and then finding out about it on the back
11:12:26 Number 7, safeguarding small tools and equipment.
11:12:29 Here again the internal audit recommendations were numerous.
11:12:33 Implement an inventory system that starts along with a lot
11:12:38 of sub items under that.
11:12:41 In total it's in process.
11:12:42 But let me highlight it, if I can, some of the sub
11:12:47 Centralizing inventory to a central location.
11:12:50 We have done that.
11:12:51 We have identified space as Lowry Park centralized all of
11:12:55 our equipment and tools.
11:12:57 Forming a complete inventory.
11:12:59 That's in process, and it has turned out to be extensive.
11:13:03 We are involving the purchasing department and the asset
11:13:05 tracking and allocation, division of the accounting office,
11:13:09 and trying to get our hands on the entire inventory in its
11:13:14 Again establishing a benchmark of what we have, and then
11:13:17 issuing that inventory to the teams and to the personnel as
11:13:23 So we are actually involving two other departments in that
11:13:25 endeavor that's in process.
11:13:28 Determining the tools and equipment necessary.
11:13:30 We have done that.
11:13:31 We have identified which teams will acquire which tools and
11:13:36 equipment and which personnel will acquire that.
11:13:38 Issuing only the appropriate number.
11:13:42 We have the appropriate number, and type of equipment based
11:13:45 on determining the tools and equipment necessary.
11:13:50 Determining the minimum number to remain on hand.
11:13:53 Of course, there will be times when perhaps you have got
11:13:55 five personnel, and they don't necessarily need five weed
11:14:02 If one of them breaks down they want a spare, so we will
11:14:05 have a little bit of cushion in terms of what we do issue
11:14:10 but it will be a narrow scope based on the activities of
11:14:13 these teams.
11:14:17 Damaged goods, we have completed that and now under the
11:14:20 damaged pieces of equipment out there would require an
11:14:22 exchange before we replace it.
11:14:24 Documenting all the issues.
11:14:26 We have done that also.
11:14:27 So a lot of the low-hanging fruit, if you will has been
11:14:31 The main challenge as I see it is the complete inventory,
11:14:34 and again we are working with some other departments to
11:14:37 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Dennis, in terms of we are going to
11:14:41 inventory all this equipment.
11:14:43 What process are we going to use to make sure that it's
11:14:47 either tagged and code order tracked in some way?
11:14:50 I know that part of the process is for the equipment to be
11:14:53 on the truck.
11:14:53 The truck has to be checked off in terms of what equipment
11:14:57 is on that truck for that particular day's work.
11:15:01 How are we going to make sure that, you know, that equipment
11:15:04 is not going to disappear or be not tracked the way it was
11:15:11 Because obviously there were things in here, you know,
11:15:14 $40,000 purchases, half of it was not issued.
11:15:18 Where are some of the other things?
11:15:19 I think the last time we talked, before council, you
11:15:24 acknowledged that we are not sure where any of the other
11:15:27 equipment went, if we still have it, until we do the
11:15:30 But what, going forward, are we going to do in order to
11:15:34 track it and make sure that we do not lose sight of small
11:15:40 type of equipment that is so easily movable and can be
11:15:44 taken, or at least, you know, not tracked properly?
11:15:50 >> A couple different answers to that.
11:15:52 First of all, you mentioned yourself, only going to buy what
11:15:56 we reasonably anticipate we are going to need as opposed to
11:15:59 unnecessary stockpiling.
11:16:01 Secondly we will be looking a lot at the purchasing
11:16:03 department and ask that allocation division to guide us
11:16:05 through that, because I imagine some of the tracking is
11:16:09 going to be simply visual by a supervisor on-site, you know,
11:16:13 with the devices they use to manually take up pieces of
11:16:18 garbage and things like that.
11:16:22 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Aren't there processes that we can bar code
11:16:24 some of that equipment and be able to check it out on a
11:16:27 daily basis?
11:16:28 I would think that would be kind of a no-brainer but I don't
11:16:31 know what the process.
11:16:32 I don't know what equipment we need in order to make that
11:16:35 happen or what Florida process we need to put in place, or
11:16:38 if you are looking at that already in terms of what is going
11:16:41 forward, correct?
11:16:42 >> I imagine part of it will be a cost benefit.
11:16:55 If there's a set cost to identify every tiny piece of
11:16:58 equipment, it may be cost prohibitive.
11:17:01 But these part of the discussion we are having in purchasing
11:17:03 department, and asset allocation.
11:17:05 We may have the capability to bar code every single
11:17:08 individual piece of equipment.
11:17:09 I don't know that yet.
11:17:10 I don't know if director Slater knows that yet or not.
11:17:14 >>JAKE SLATER: Councilman Suarez, my position is, in our
11:17:21 talks with inventory control management, I want a tag on a
11:17:27 tag, and that's the bottom line.
11:17:29 I want them to show us how to properly identify each and
11:17:33 every piece of equipment and give us some type of overall
11:17:43 If it's a tag on a tag, that is what I want.
11:17:45 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilwoman Montelione?
11:17:50 >>LISA MONTELIONE: ID tags, speak to Tonja Brickhouse
11:17:54 because that's what solid waste is already doing.
11:17:56 So they have probably already vetted all the different ways
11:17:58 of keeping track of things.
11:17:59 And if they already have the technology, I don't see that it
11:18:03 would probably be a big issue to not reinvent the wheel and
11:18:07 just go after what they are already doing.
11:18:09 >> It wouldn't surprise me at all.
11:18:12 We talked to solid waste about it, and actually have some ID
11:18:16 tags on my desk literally as we speak based on our
11:18:20 So we know where the desk is, exactly.
11:18:22 I probably have one on myself and am unaware of it.
11:18:27 And you just got the director's take on it.
11:18:29 We do not want to lose inventory.
11:18:32 And if inventory breaks down we want to know about it so we
11:18:35 are replacing what we need to when we need to.
11:18:40 The 8th item on the internal audit was responses to
11:18:45 customer service requests.
11:18:48 And as you may remember from reading the article there were
11:18:53 some substantial delays in some instances of responding to a
11:18:57 service request especially through our Internet electronic
11:19:03 CST tools.
11:19:04 The first rental was appropriate personnel obtain training
11:19:06 on the customer service center.
11:19:08 That has been completed.
11:19:10 All personnel identifying and deciding how to respond to
11:19:15 customer service requests has gone through the city
11:19:19 Response established and documented.
11:19:22 In the midst of that as you heard director Slater state, as
11:19:26 we decide just how fast we can move, and we can move pretty
11:19:29 fast, we are going to identify what those standards are, and
11:19:34 hold the district supervisors accountable for it.
11:19:36 Also, to bring it up once again because it's the ninth item
11:19:41 on the audit, the TMA work orders, that's going to help us
11:19:46 substantially in tracking what we are doing and how fast we
11:19:49 are doing it so that will also help us refine the standard.
11:19:52 And again, that was the final finding on the internal audit,
11:19:56 was implement a work order management system.
11:19:57 I couldn't agree more.
11:20:00 And we are doing that in conjunction with the technology and
11:20:03 innovation department, as we overcome some technical
11:20:06 I want to thank that department again for working with us.
11:20:09 We'll get that implemented.
11:20:10 And we look for great things from it.
11:20:12 >>HARRY COHEN: Okay. Thank you very much.
11:20:16 In light of Mr. Reddick's motion, we will see you again
11:20:23 I believe it's March 21st.
11:20:25 So thank you very much.
11:20:26 Item number 37.
11:20:28 It's next on our agenda.
11:20:30 And that is legal department to appear and provide a report
11:20:33 pertaining to an ordinance related to synthetic drugs.
11:20:40 >>JULIA MANDELL: Legal department.
11:20:47 I am having passed out the ordinance which passed on first
11:20:50 reading yesterday, by the Hillsborough County Board of
11:20:54 County Commissioners, relating to the synthetic drug issue.
11:20:58 As I have discussed with you in the past, he's part of a
11:21:07 countywide committee and asked me to look at the issue of
11:21:09 synthetic drugs overall, given the state law, and given the
11:21:13 way other jurisdictions have handled the idea of synthetic
11:21:16 drugs, which are being marketed and sold in many of the
11:21:19 convenience stores located throughout the county.
11:21:22 The thought wasn't that we would have a holistic approach to
11:21:25 this particular issue, so we could work hand in hand with
11:21:28 other municipalities, and Hillsborough County as well as
11:21:33 with the state attorney's office, and with the Hillsborough
11:21:35 County sheriff's office.
11:21:37 What you have in front of you is the ordinance which was
11:21:39 passed by the Board of County Commissioners, which more
11:21:44 broadly defines how you could identify the synthetic drugs,
11:21:48 not just through the chemical compound but also the way they
11:21:52 marketed as different products.
11:21:58 It specifically prohibits businesses from the possession,
11:22:01 use, sale, distribution, manufacture of synthetic drugs,
11:22:05 display or sale of marketing of the synthetic drugs, the
11:22:08 advertising of synthetic drugs, and for the display sale of
11:22:13 marketing of specific products as defined within the
11:22:18 Why that's important and why the county has taken the
11:22:20 approach that they have is really a two-fold approach.
11:22:24 One, the state law does prohibit and criminalize many of the
11:22:29 synthetic drugs that we have heard about.
11:22:31 The big problem is that the chemical compromises change
11:22:34 fairly regularly and it's rather hard to keep up with so the
11:22:39 approach of the county is to use more of a code enforcement
11:22:42 business enforcement style approach through their code
11:22:45 enforcement officers, because it's a different standard of
11:22:50 review, they were able to more broadly define the types of
11:22:53 drugs that would be included.
11:22:55 Now certainly there is an obligation still that you have a
11:23:01 laboratory test to see if they meet some of the chemicals
11:23:06 situation s described in but by utilizing, the hope is that
11:23:11 it would give a standard of review or process that is
11:23:14 against the business as opposed to being against the store
11:23:16 clerk who is in the store selling what their bosses told
11:23:21 them to sell.
11:23:22 It is a little bit of a novel approach.
11:23:24 It hasn't been looked at by a court of competent
11:23:27 jurisdiction, but I think in this instance it is something
11:23:29 that is certainly we can move forward with.
11:23:32 It is a countywide ordinance.
11:23:33 It does affect our jurisdiction, unless we decide to do
11:23:37 something different.
11:23:38 Now, it does provide within the body of this ordinance that
11:23:43 either we could utilize our own code enforcement processes
11:23:46 to enforce this ordinance, or alternatively we can enter
11:23:49 into an interlocal agreement with the county to allow their
11:23:54 county code enforcement officer to enforce this ordinance.
11:23:56 We have not had those conversations yet with the county as
11:23:59 to whether or not we want to enter into an interlocal
11:24:03 agreement with that which would provide for wanted to first
11:24:06 see if this would be something that the county was going to
11:24:08 be moving forward with.
11:24:09 The other thing that was done within the body of this
11:24:12 ordinance as I mentioned, you still have to worry about the
11:24:14 testing of the ingredients.
11:24:17 This does provide the Hillsborough County board of county
11:24:20 commissioners will allocate some funding for the testing of
11:24:23 the ingredients, as opposed to it being something that is
11:24:26 done through the state attorney's office and through the
11:24:28 state FDLE lab.
11:24:32 It does provide a different opportunity for that testing.
11:24:34 I think it is important to note that the issue is an
11:24:38 important issue, how you find out how it actually meets
11:24:41 these chemical compositions is something that I think most
11:24:45 jurisdictions are struggling with today because the
11:24:48 compositions change so often.
11:24:49 All that being said, this is a new approach.
11:24:51 It is an approach that I'm comfortable that we can move
11:24:55 forward with.
11:24:56 The one thing we should keep in mind and I think allow for
11:24:59 is see how the county wants to set their system up, and then
11:25:02 we could either approach the county and then whether or not
11:25:06 we want to enter into an interlocal agreement with the
11:25:09 county to move forward to allow the cot to enforce or
11:25:12 whether or not we want to keep that in house.
11:25:14 And that's really where we are in a nutshell.
11:25:16 >> Councilman Reddick.
11:25:18 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
11:25:23 First let me just thank you for participating on the task
11:25:27 force, and for all the time and extent and working with the
11:25:32 county attorney to get this to the point where we are at
11:25:40 With the county, it's my understanding in speaking with
11:25:44 commissioner Miller yesterday, is that they don't have to
11:25:49 pass it on the first reading.
11:25:52 Once it passes, it's active.
11:25:54 So it's a one-time.
11:25:56 >> Okay. I wasn't sure if that's what they did yesterday or
11:26:01 So I didn't know if it needed to come back.
11:26:05 Thank you for clarifying that.
11:26:06 >>FRANK REDDICK: Once it's passed with the county.
11:26:13 And one other question I want to raise.
11:26:15 If we were to do an interlocal agreement with the county,
11:26:20 would they assume the cost of the agreement for the testing
11:26:25 and application?
11:26:27 >>JULIA MANDELL: That's the thing we haven't gotten to yet.
11:26:30 The way this ordinance is drafted, the Board of County
11:26:34 Commissioners is taking on the opportunity to allocate
11:26:40 resources for the testing.
11:26:41 I don't know as we discuss an interlocal agreement with
11:26:46 them, that would be something that they want to pass on to
11:26:48 us or not.
11:26:49 We haven't gotten to that point yet.
11:26:50 I think that the issue, they wanted to put this into place
11:26:55 first and then find out what the costs associated with that
11:26:58 would be.
11:27:00 And probably wants to tap some test cases beings maybe some
11:27:04 benefit in seeing how test cases move forward because
11:27:06 sometimes having those test cases allows your enforcement
11:27:11 arm to be more powerful.
11:27:13 So that's why I think at this point, we probably want to
11:27:18 give some time and see how this is moving forward.
11:27:21 I will continue to participate with them and to keep the
11:27:24 dialogue open with them.
11:27:26 And they have been extremely communicative with me and have
11:27:29 taken all of my suggestions, et cetera, into consideration.
11:27:31 >>FRANK REDDICK: And my next question, Mr. Chairman, after
11:27:38 everyone has a chance to speak I want to make a motion.
11:27:41 If we just allow the county -- if we just adopt the county's
11:27:46 ordinance, for the City of Tampa how does that affect the
11:27:57 >> We don't need to take any action.
11:27:58 By its own terms it does have jurisdiction within the City
11:28:01 of Tampa, municipal city limits.
11:28:04 So once this is adopted, it is in full force and effect in
11:28:08 the city.
11:28:09 So the only question becomes one of our own, allocation with
11:28:13 our code enforcement.
11:28:14 So do we want to go and start looking at this and enforcing
11:28:17 this through our own processes, or doing it through the
11:28:20 interlocal agreement by the terms of this ordinance?
11:28:25 So if we don't take any additional actions, this is
11:28:28 within -- this is enforceable within the city limits.
11:28:31 If we want to do something different, we would have to then
11:28:35 adopt our own ordinance, and it would be in conflict then
11:28:41 with this ordinance and our ordinance would prevail.
11:28:44 >>FRANK REDDICK: And I think I would be more supportive of
11:28:47 adopting an ordinance of our own.
11:28:49 >>JULIA MANDELL: Okay.
11:28:51 >>FRANK REDDICK: And once everyone has a chance to speak I
11:28:55 want to make a motion to that effect.
11:28:56 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, chair.
11:29:00 Ms. Mandell, how does this change anything that the current
11:29:05 county ordinance entails?
11:29:07 I mean, obviously they have been going after some of the
11:29:10 manufacturers of these products, testing them, busting them,
11:29:15 and then they change the formula and then go forward.
11:29:18 And some of the discussions that we have had prior, which is
11:29:20 what the attorney general's office has been doing in terms
11:29:22 of making a broader statement, and some of the things that
11:29:27 we talked about, which is identifying only based on that
11:29:32 order, from the AG's office and then just following an
11:29:35 ordinance that always changes based on whatever the AG's
11:29:39 order is, two things.
11:29:41 One, does this change significantly what the county is
11:29:44 already doing?
11:29:45 What are those changes?
11:29:46 And then secondly, was there any discussions about some of
11:29:50 the ideas that we presented in making a broader enforcement
11:29:54 tool as opposed to making it more specific?
11:29:57 So if you could just explain that.
11:29:58 >> This is an alternative enforcement process.
11:30:02 Certainly the process being utilized by the attorney
11:30:05 general's office and by the state attorney's office today
11:30:09 isn't affected by this at all.
11:30:10 You certainly can bring a criminal case, and you can meet
11:30:13 this ordinance under your criminal cases.
11:30:15 >>MIKE SUAREZ: This goes back to what we discussed, so
11:30:19 instead of making it a criminal offense it is a code
11:30:22 enforcement violation?
11:30:23 >>JULIA MANDELL: It would be a code enforcement violation
11:30:25 which creates a different burden of proof in terms of your
11:30:29 Now, an enforcement is not criminal, putting people in jail,
11:30:35 those kind of issues.
11:30:36 It is against the business, whatever your code enforcement
11:30:38 process is, meaning you get fined, you have to deal with
11:30:42 those issues through a business enforcement process.
11:30:45 So it is a different -- it's another tool, I would say,
11:30:50 another tool in your Army of --
11:30:59 >> You are messing up your metaphors.
11:31:00 >> I was trying to throw one out there.
11:31:03 But it is not the same kind of criminalization.
11:31:06 And I think finding another way to get to the same place
11:31:11 because the problem right now is not that when can't find
11:31:15 the substances or the state can't find the substances.
11:31:19 It's when those substances change and then you have to seek
11:31:22 opportunities to test for these new substances.
11:31:24 When we talked about this, I think it was two years ago, and
11:31:27 the state had just defined an additional, I think it is, 50
11:31:32 substances and said, okay, these additional substances are
11:31:35 also illegal and criminalized, it also gave an opportunity
11:31:40 for us to look or for the state attorney's office, the
11:31:43 police to look at the analogs of those chemical compound,
11:31:48 which is you can change a couple of the numbers and you can
11:31:51 still can fall under that criminalization.
11:31:54 The problem is the testing.
11:31:56 And utilizing the labs and finding the opportunities to test
11:32:00 it because under the criminal prosecution, you need to prove
11:32:04 your case from beyond a reasonable doubt, you need to show
11:32:08 from the state side that you meet those chemical composition
11:32:12 which is a much more complicated question.
11:32:14 This is an alternative way to get to the same place with a
11:32:16 less burden of proof.
11:32:18 You still have to prove up the substance, but the county has
11:32:21 taken on the opportunity to pay for that testing as opposed
11:32:25 to it being through the state attorney's office or through
11:32:28 the attorney general's office.
11:32:37 It gives you an alternative to get to the same place.
11:32:41 >> I know that the legislature has been talking about this
11:32:44 for some time.
11:32:45 I don't think that there is anything that I know of that has
11:32:47 gotten through committee, or maybe it has, but hasn't been
11:32:50 voted on yet in terms of synthetic drugs.
11:32:54 I'm not sure they are pushing it this particular legislative
11:32:58 They may be.
11:32:59 I haven't seen anything.
11:32:59 But it doesn't mean that it isn't out there.
11:33:02 I thought there was something out there.
11:33:04 But I would be in support of Mr. Reddick's suggestion that
11:33:08 we have our own ordinance, possibly putting in what our
11:33:14 interlocal agreement would be in terms of the testing
11:33:17 portion of it specifically, and that code enforcement on our
11:33:20 end would probably go and hand oaf these particular
11:33:24 substances to the county, and then look at whatever the cost
11:33:28 differential is for them to do testing whenever we bring it
11:33:31 to them.
11:33:31 I think that might be the best way of doing it, because
11:33:35 there is a significant problem here in the City of Tampa
11:33:40 with these types of substances.
11:33:41 And we just have to figure out how we are going to work
11:33:44 that, so that the cost differential that we are going to
11:33:46 have in terms of both enforcement and in terms of testing,
11:33:50 that we are very much aware of what that cost is going to
11:33:54 So I think that you dealing with the county on a more
11:33:59 regular basis I think will help us determine not only cost
11:34:05 part of it but also how this is going to actually work and
11:34:08 whether that is going to be an effective tool to stop
11:34:12 convenience stores and other purveyors of this particular
11:34:17 sin they he can drug to stop, or how to stop it.
11:34:20 So I'm going to support your motion when you bring it up.
11:34:25 But in terms of maybe we mate want to look at what that
11:34:29 differential is going to be.
11:34:30 Because if the county is going to be testing, let's just
11:34:33 figure out what the agreement would be in terms of what our
11:34:36 costs would be.
11:34:36 >>JULIA MANDELL: If I might ask a question -- and maybe I
11:34:39 didn't make it clear -- if we take no action, the county
11:34:42 ordinance is effective within the city's jurisdiction.
11:34:45 So if it's the intent to utilize the county's processes you
11:34:49 could just ask me to move forward and working with them on
11:34:51 an interlocal agreement.
11:34:52 If we want to do something different or keep it wholly
11:34:55 within the city, then we do want to adopt our own.
11:34:57 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Let me answer your question with a question
11:35:01 which is a typical dodge of anyone who is a politician,
11:35:04 which is this:
11:35:07 If the county, which it's a very large county, and has more
11:35:10 population than we do, what's the guarantee that we are
11:35:12 going to have the type of code enforcement or enforcement
11:35:16 within the city boundaries?
11:35:19 How do we know that they aren't going to be too busy with
11:35:22 those areas outside the city limits, and doing their work,
11:35:26 obviously for the unincorporated areas that we might lose
11:35:31 out on, the enforcement part of it?
11:35:34 And I'm not saying that the county would do that.
11:35:36 But whenever there is no specific action on our part, it can
11:35:42 fall by the wayside, that we might not have astringent or as
11:35:47 much enforcement as we would like to see in our city limits
11:35:51 by virtue of the fact that the county has the ordinance, and
11:35:54 then, you know, we are just depending on them to do it.
11:35:57 And I think we should be a partner, in my sense.
11:36:01 And I think that my colleague would probably agree with me,
11:36:05 which is that we can let the county try to do it, but they
11:36:07 may not consider, you know, East Tampa or Sulphur Springs or
11:36:12 north Tampa or West Tampa as a bigger target.
11:36:16 To them it may be Brandon or Valrico or Apollo Beach or
11:36:19 Gibsonton, that they are going to put most of their
11:36:22 resources into.
11:36:24 Again, I don't know what they are thinking in terms of their
11:36:26 own process.
11:36:27 But for us, I think it might give us a little more pause to
11:36:31 know exactly what we want them to do in terms of our own
11:36:34 role in doing it.
11:36:35 >> And I think that the first allocation question is a fair
11:36:40 question to be asking the county if we want to enter into an
11:36:46 interlocal agreement or if we like their ordinance but we
11:36:48 want it to be enforced through our own processes and we do
11:36:52 simply utilize our own processes either through the way this
11:36:55 is drafted, because it does give us the opportunity to
11:36:57 utilize our own municipal code enforcement officers the way
11:37:02 this is aren't currently drafted, or we may, because of the
11:37:05 new audiences in our own code, we want to -- I wanted to
11:37:11 make sure we were all on the same page.
11:37:14 >>MIKE SUAREZ: And I inartfully said the same thing, which
11:37:18 is not in the local ordinance but I think we need to take a
11:37:24 stand specifically to the city that we do want to look at
11:37:26 this, and how we work out those specifics, I think, is up to
11:37:31 I think that you get my gist of it.
11:37:34 And as our representative along with Councilman Reddick in
11:37:38 terms of dealing with the county, I think that's something
11:37:40 we should definitely look at.
11:37:42 So thank you, chair.
11:37:43 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilwoman Montelione?
11:37:47 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you, chair.
11:37:48 Ms. Mandell, you and I had a conversation about this on a
11:37:51 couple of occasions, and having just gotten the county
11:37:56 ordinance, I would support, again, with Mr. Suarez, Mr.
11:38:03 Reddick's motion that we do adopt our own ordinance, because
11:38:08 just looking through here and reading things, sales
11:38:14 locations, liquor stores, convenience stores -- I mean,
11:38:19 these are sold in other places -- beauty shops, nail salons,
11:38:22 different venues.
11:38:23 So singling out a specific type of business, although that
11:38:28 is probably where most of them are sold, that it is
11:38:30 something I would like to see expanded.
11:38:33 The other is that I do have pause about the funding of the
11:38:40 laboratory costs, because although in the ordinance that
11:38:45 they passed yesterday, it says "shall" and you know in
11:38:50 legalese "shall" can mean a whole lot of stuff.
11:38:54 On the cover page, it says the action will have an impact on
11:38:58 county finances to cover staff time, and possibly laboratory
11:39:03 So there seems to be some vagueness there as to what and how
11:39:09 much funding they would allocate towards that laboratory
11:39:13 And I think when we discussed yesterday as well, we talked
11:39:16 about the labs that are able to perform this type of
11:39:22 testing, and how far behind they are.
11:39:24 And that leads me to say, or ask, we all saw on TV last
11:39:32 night and other times -- and this has been on the news --
11:39:35 officers go in, they confiscate what's on the shelves, they
11:39:38 walk out with it, until that store owner is found to be
11:39:45 guilty of possessing and selling illegal substances, can
11:39:52 they go and still continue to sell the substances while that
11:39:55 is moving through the courts?
11:39:57 >> I frankly am not a criminal lawyer, so I don't know from
11:40:05 that perspective whether or not they would be able to
11:40:07 continue to sell those substances.
11:40:11 I would say that unless there's some proof that those
11:40:16 substances are criminalized substances that they certainly
11:40:22 would be taking quite a risk.
11:40:23 But I would be reluctant to say what a particular defendant
11:40:29 can or cannot do.
11:40:30 >>LISA MONTELIONE: It depends on how much money you are
11:40:34 making off of those sales and whether or not the risk is
11:40:36 worth the reward.
11:40:37 So there still may be -- although it looks great on TV to be
11:40:43 walking out with all these acts and making that statement,
11:40:48 they may be back on the shelves the next day.
11:40:50 So I don't know.
11:40:51 And that's something I have a concern about.
11:40:56 Do you know how many labs there are and how many days it
11:41:00 takes for the testing to come back?
11:41:02 >>JULIA MANDELL: I understand the state, in going forward
11:41:04 with their criminal cases, use the FDLE labs, which there's
11:41:08 only, I believe, one lab in the State of Florida, and I
11:41:11 believe it's relatively backed up.
11:41:12 I know that that was a point of discussion during this
11:41:16 process, and looking at alternatives to testing, because
11:41:23 again it's not like the drugs, you know, from what I'm told,
11:41:28 and going through the process, it's not like a drug can be
11:41:32 tested right on-site but everything is already identified
11:41:35 what those chemical compositions are because you are talking
11:41:39 about new chemical compositions, they do need he to go
11:41:43 through a much more stringent process of testing.
11:41:46 And I understand that it uses the FDLE lab which is somewhat
11:41:50 behind, from what I understand and what I'm told.
11:41:53 It's not the kind of law that I have ever really practiced,
11:41:56 so I don't really know --
11:41:57 >> A business opportunity to someone who wants to develop a
11:42:00 hand-held device that has chemical substances, but that
11:42:05 concerns me, the lack of resources to do the testing, and
11:42:12 all of the time it passes. Okay.
11:42:16 So what I would like to add, should it sound like we craft
11:42:22 our own ordinance, is something that you and I also talked
11:42:25 about, and I brought up the last time we talked about this
11:42:29 subject, is that I would like the stores within the City of
11:42:34 Tampa that sell this product be required to keep the product
11:42:39 behind the counter and have it under lock and key so that
11:42:45 much like other things that you buy now, the cold medicines
11:42:50 that they put behind lock and key because people are using
11:42:53 them to make methamphetamines, you have to show your license
11:42:59 and it creates another barrier to the sale of these
11:43:01 substances because I think this is going to be a cat and
11:43:04 mouse game.
11:43:05 It's going to be where we are trying to keep up with
11:43:09 removing these products from the shelves, what's going to
11:43:13 prosecution, relying on Hillsborough County if we go that
11:43:16 direction for code enforcement and pay for the testing and
11:43:19 witness expert testimony.
11:43:20 It sounds like it's a very convoluted process.
11:43:26 And if we decide for our own code enforcement to be those
11:43:29 who are charged in the City of Tampa, we already heard from
11:43:35 Jake Slater a moment ago about how many things he has on his
11:43:40 plate already, and they can't keep up with the tasks they
11:43:44 have now.
11:43:47 So that's another concern of mine.
11:43:48 And I think that building in a layer where you have to go in
11:43:54 and you have to, you know, the clerk has to take out a key
11:43:57 and unlock a cabinet and hand you something, is another
11:44:04 impediment to the sale.
11:44:05 And may discourage store owners from wanting to sell the
11:44:09 product because they that might, again talking about risk
11:44:12 and reward, it might be prohibitive to them to install those
11:44:15 types of counters and have is the staff time checking IDs
11:44:21 to make sure they are over the age of 21.
11:44:23 Because the way I look at it, if you have to be over 21 to
11:44:26 purchase alcohol, you should be over the age of 21 if you
11:44:29 want to purchase any other substance that is questionable in
11:44:33 >> Councilman Reddick.
11:44:37 >>FRANK REDDICK: Let me just comment.
11:44:39 And, you know, one vendor stated to us in discussing this,
11:44:47 that it generates over $30,000 in income a month.
11:44:53 In the sale of synthetic drugs.
11:44:58 That's a lot of money.
11:44:59 And if they want to sell this stuff and they want to find a
11:45:02 way to do it.
11:45:02 But currently, because we have the state law in place, you
11:45:13 If they go into a store, and remove the stuff off the
11:45:16 counter today, and do you know if they determine if it has
11:45:31 to be tested?
11:45:32 >> I don't know what their investigation process is.
11:45:34 I know we talked about that about a year and a half ago, and
11:45:37 there was, right after the state law, right after the state
11:45:41 law had changed and TPD had gone through a process of
11:45:45 confiscating a number of packets of drugs from several
11:45:49 locations, I don't know from an investigatory perspective
11:45:56 what happened after that.
11:45:56 >>FRANK REDDICK: Okay.
11:45:59 And in that case then, I agree with my colleagues, that I
11:46:05 would love to see us have our own local city ordinance,
11:46:09 because I agree with Mr. Suarez, how much energy or
11:46:14 attention is in the city limits versus the county, with the
11:46:21 geographical areas, and I would hate to see that time is
11:46:26 spent, because I know if you go to about any convenience
11:46:32 store in the lower income area, you see this stuff all over
11:46:35 And people are buying it.
11:46:37 So I would hate to see less time spent, and more time
11:46:41 spent -- and I'm not saying what they would do, but just
11:46:46 based on my experience, and in those low-income
11:46:53 neighborhood, I'm pretty sure that it won't be as high as
11:47:00 the standard area if we go to some of those other areas.
11:47:03 So I'm going to request, Mrs. Mandell, that you draft an
11:47:11 ordinance, that is compatible to the ordinance of the
11:47:19 county, whether it has the city jurisdiction, and this could
11:47:28 be done -- could draft an ordinance to review.
11:47:33 So this could be enforceable by TPD, or code enforcement,
11:47:43 and I prefer TPD.
11:47:46 And the reason I'm stating that is because if I'm a
11:47:49 convenience store owner, and you are a code enforcement
11:47:56 officer, one thing, with TPD walking over with a gun on
11:48:02 their shoulder versus code enforcement, they have got a
11:48:05 radio, it's a big difference.
11:48:08 And for $30 that you or more a year, they aren't going to
11:48:17 pay as much attention, and I think that makes a big
11:48:23 And I agree with Mrs. Montelione that code enforcement has a
11:48:27 lot of responsibility, a lot of work.
11:48:32 So you can look into TPD, and enforce this ordinance, and
11:48:39 provide us with a draft within the city limits.
11:48:48 >>HARRY COHEN: I think we can also do that on the 21st.
11:48:52 Do I hear a second?
11:48:58 >>JULIA MANDELL: If I could, I might ask for a moment to
11:49:01 explain why.
11:49:01 If you are going to utilize not so much our code enforcement
11:49:04 practice but our municipal ordinance violation process, I am
11:49:07 going to want to be able to work with our municipal
11:49:12 prosecutor, and we are very fortunate that we may be having
11:49:15 somebody come in who has a lot of experience in these
11:49:17 matters, and he should be here the middle of March.
11:49:20 So I would like an opportunity to be able to work with him,
11:49:26 and to do some of that work.
11:49:28 So we might have a really good resource.
11:49:35 If you give me to the first meeting in April I will have
11:49:38 >>HARRY COHEN: April 4th.
11:49:40 So motion and second.
11:49:42 It was already seconded by Councilwoman Montelione.
11:49:44 Is there discussion by -- Councilwoman Capin.
11:49:48 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes.
11:49:49 When you speak of this being municipal ordinance, and the
11:49:54 prosecutor, then this will become an ordinance that makes
11:49:58 this a crime?
11:50:00 >>JULIA MANDELL: Well, a municipal ordinance violation
11:50:02 isn't exactly the same thing as a crime, but the one thing I
11:50:06 need to get some additional understanding of is the burden
11:50:09 of proof.
11:50:10 And I think that's one of the reasons why the county
11:50:12 utilized the code enforcement process.
11:50:15 All that being said, we are fortunate in the city that we do
11:50:18 have our own municipal prosecutor.
11:50:20 I don't believe the county does.
11:50:22 So being able to work with our municipal prosecutor can give
11:50:27 a better understanding of how this type of ordinance with
11:50:29 the way the proof is works in a noncriminal violation that
11:50:35 goes into court versus it going to our Code Enforcement
11:50:37 Board or magistrate.
11:50:40 So that's something I think from what I'm hearing the
11:50:43 discussion, we don't -- the one nuance difference between
11:50:46 this ordinance and the way we would like to have it enforced
11:50:50 in the city is not just to use our code enforcement but to
11:50:54 actually use our judicial municipal ordinance violation
11:50:59 And before I go forward I want to make sure I am not going
11:51:05 to have a paragraph problem.
11:51:10 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Is that also a code, whatever you just said?
11:51:17 >>JULIA MANDELL: Well, we use many of the instances that
11:51:21 We use our Code Enforcement Board or use a special
11:51:24 magistrate, or we use the simple citation process.
11:51:28 There's other ordinances that we use our municipal
11:51:31 prosecutor for, which means it goes to a judge, and it's a
11:51:36 Gwazi -- it is not exactly criminal.
11:51:41 So we have somebody in our office who handles these matters.
11:51:44 That's why I want a little additional time so that I can
11:51:46 make sure that if we are going to transfer this into a
11:51:50 municipal ordinance violation, which is not what the county
11:51:52 has done, that we are not going to have some legal issues as
11:51:55 we bring these cases forward.
11:51:56 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilwoman Montelione.
11:52:04 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I know this is a discussion of the
11:52:06 motion on the floor.
11:52:07 But I might want to take this as a separate motion.
11:52:10 But you tell me if this is appropriate to add an amendment
11:52:14 to this one.
11:52:16 When I spoke about requiring stores to have this substance,
11:52:23 or any product of this type behind -- I mean, our ultimate
11:52:30 goal is to not have them sell it at all.
11:52:33 But again, as I talked about the last time, it was around
11:52:38 December, I believe it was around the holiday time, we
11:52:42 talked about this, and I said, well, you know, depending on
11:52:45 what the county does, and if it really is February, great.
11:52:50 If not and it takes longer, I want to move forward with
11:52:52 putting some kind of restriction or barrier by the time we
11:52:58 are waiting on adopting something, so that it's not
11:53:02 continuing to be sold easily.
11:53:08 The Hillsborough County ordinance is understood effect but
11:53:10 we have in a way, or we don't know how we are going to be
11:53:13 enforcing it.
11:53:14 So basically even though it's in effect, nothing is going to
11:53:16 change as far as the enforcement of this.
11:53:19 >> Well, the way it's currently drafted, a code enforcement
11:53:27 officer can enforce it, it just goes through the county
11:53:31 enforcement process.
11:53:32 We could enter into an interlocal agreement to allow the
11:53:35 county -- we can enforce through our processes -- well, we
11:53:42 can explore, but then it would go to the county for their
11:53:45 processing, is the way I read it, meaning we would do the
11:53:48 enforcement, hand it off to the county through the
11:53:51 enforcement process.
11:53:54 What council wants to do is use our own processes.
11:54:01 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I understand, but my issue is how much
11:54:03 time is going to pass.
11:54:05 Because like I said, until we figure this whole thing out,
11:54:07 interlocal agreement, who is going to enforce it, all this
11:54:10 stuff, we went from December to February, now to April.
11:54:14 It's going to be six months before something really
11:54:18 substantive happens to stop the sale of this substance.
11:54:23 So --
11:54:26 >>JULIA MANDELL: I was going the impression I was going to
11:54:29 bring an ordinance back in April utilizing this same exact
11:54:32 language, but instead of using their enforcement process use
11:54:37 >>LISA MONTELIONE: But December and April, we start talking
11:54:38 about December, February, March, April, that's four months.
11:54:41 So that's my concern, is that it's taking a long time
11:54:49 But I just -- I'll let the motion go forward.
11:54:53 >>FRANK REDDICK: We do have a county ordinance in place
11:54:56 right now.
11:54:56 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Right.
11:54:58 But until we sort out the -- I mean, in my heart of hearts,
11:55:03 I don't think a whole lot is going to change until we sort
11:55:06 out the interlocal agreement and code enforcement and all of
11:55:09 So I really don't think that a whole lot is going to change
11:55:11 with this actually being in effect.
11:55:13 So I am going to make a companion motion after we vote on
11:55:20 this one.
11:55:20 >>HARRY COHEN: Okay.
11:55:22 Well, at this moment, we have this motion on the floor from
11:55:24 Mr. Reddick to bring a draft ordinance back on April 4th
11:55:28 at 10 a.m.
11:55:29 Seconded by Councilwoman Montelione.
11:55:31 All those in favor please indicate by saying aye.
11:55:35 Opposed? Okay.
11:55:36 The motion passes.
11:55:37 Councilwoman Montelione wanted to make a separate motion.
11:55:40 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Yes.
11:55:41 I would like this to be heard at 10:00 under staff reports
11:55:44 on March 7th.
11:55:47 To have a requirement that any substances considered
11:55:52 synthetic drugs be sold behind the counter to patron 21
11:55:59 years of age or older and be understood lock and key and
11:56:03 only accessible by the store manager.
11:56:05 >>HARRY COHEN: Do I hear a second?
11:56:13 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I'll second but I have a question.
11:56:15 Will that be included as part of the ordinance --
11:56:19 >>HARRY COHEN: She asked for that on March 7th
11:56:22 understood staff reports so that will be before.
11:56:24 >>MIKE SUAREZ: And maybe add it in the ordinance.
11:56:26 >>LISA MONTELIONE: And if I may explain what I said earlier
11:56:30 that this is going to be a cat and mouse game.
11:56:34 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I understand that.
11:56:35 I just thought it was maybe something we could add in the
11:56:38 >>HARRY COHEN: So we have a motion from Councilwoman
11:56:40 Montelione, seconded by Councilman Suarez for a staff report
11:56:43 on March 7th discussing the issue she's raised regarding
11:56:49 lock and key.
11:56:50 All in favor of that motion indicate by saying aye.
11:56:52 Opposed? Okay.
11:56:54 We will hear that again then at our next regular meeting.
11:56:58 Moving on now, because of the hour, I would like to go ahead
11:57:01 and take care of some housekeeping matters before we recess
11:57:05 for lunch.
11:57:05 There are a few items here.
11:57:08 Particularly I have been asked to deal with number 46 and
11:57:12 Number 46 and 47 are quasi-judicial so I would ask to open
11:57:24 number 46.
11:57:26 We have a motion from Councilman Suarez, seconded by
11:57:29 Councilman Reddick.
11:57:30 All in favor? Okay.
11:57:32 Item number 46 is now open.
11:57:36 The petitioner has requested a continuance to March
11:57:41 Is there anyone in the audience that wishes to speak to the
11:57:44 continuance only?
11:57:48 Okay. I don't see anyone.
11:57:49 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Motion to close.
11:57:53 Move to continue, excuse me.
11:57:54 >>HARRY COHEN: Move to continue by Mr. Suarez, seconded by
11:58:01 Mr. Reddick.
11:58:02 To March 21st, 2013 at 10 a.m -- 10:30 a.m.
11:58:07 Excuse me.
11:58:07 We have a motion from Councilman Reddick, seconded by
11:58:11 Councilman Suarez.
11:58:12 All those in favor?
11:58:14 Opposed? Okay.
11:58:17 Item number 47.
11:58:20 I would like to open the public hearing.
11:58:22 >> So moved.
11:58:24 >>HARRY COHEN: We don't need to do that? Okay.
11:58:26 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Motion to accept Mr. Bentley's
11:58:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Seconded by Councilman Suarez.
11:58:37 All those in favor say aye.
11:58:40 Opposed? Okay.
11:58:40 That motion is withdrawn.
11:58:42 And item 47 will not be heard.
11:58:50 It is now 12:00.
11:58:52 Mr. Snelling is here on item number 40.
11:58:54 And I wonder if we mate go ahead and take that item before
11:58:56 we go ahead and recess for lunch.
11:58:59 And then we'll go ahead and recess after that.
11:59:07 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Do you need a motion to extend till 12:15?
11:59:12 >>HARRY COHEN: I would appreciate a motion to extend for 15
11:59:15 We have a motion from Councilman Suarez, seconded by
11:59:18 Councilwoman Montelione.
11:59:19 All those in favor please indicate by saying aye.
11:59:22 Thank you.
11:59:24 Mr. Snelling.
11:59:25 Moment of personal privilege.
11:59:29 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I apologize.
11:59:30 I thought we were going to break for lunch.
11:59:32 Miles is one year, and this will be coming up at the end of
11:59:36 our meeting.
11:59:45 And he wasn't born when that was brought, that we have the
11:59:53 ordinance brought forward.
11:59:57 I just want everybody to say hi to miles.
12:00:03 Thank you.
12:00:03 I apologize.
12:00:04 I thought we were going to break for lunch.
12:00:06 >>HARRY COHEN: Okay.
12:00:12 Thank you, folks.
12:00:13 I do need four members of council sitting up here in order
12:00:15 to continue the meeting.
12:00:26 >>THOM SNELLING: Turn the PowerPoint to 40.
12:00:27 >>HARRY COHEN: Mr. Snelling, if you will give us one
12:00:30 moment, we will continue.
12:00:32 Mr. Snelling.
12:00:33 >>THOM SNELLING: Director of planning and development.
12:00:35 The first thing I would like to introduce Estevan at the end
12:00:41 but he does have class he has to get to up at USF.
12:00:44 Would you come up here for a quick second?
12:00:46 This is the gentleman.
12:00:47 He is going to be helping.
12:00:50 Me as an intern over the next several months.
12:00:53 He's a United States Marine Corps veteran of seven years:
12:01:02 I know.
12:01:02 I know.
12:01:02 >>LISA MONTELIONE: We are getting old.
12:01:05 >> He's involved in the school of sustainability at the
12:01:08 University of South Florida and will be working closely with
12:01:11 me over the next several months going forward.
12:01:12 We are crafting up a plan for him to help the city out.
12:01:16 Part of those plans include working with the pace process
12:01:23 with Hillsborough County.
12:01:24 Also going forward in helping us with all the sustainability
12:01:28 elements and comprehensive plan.
12:01:30 Also working with the energy efficiency and conservation
12:01:34 plan and begins helping ideas and how to implement some of
12:01:39 those ideas that we have had.
12:01:41 I wanted to introduce him.
12:01:43 If you would like to say a few words.
12:01:45 >> Good afternoon, everyone.
12:01:49 Just to clarify, I'm 28 years old.
12:02:00 >>FRANK REDDICK: Are you sure you are no relative of Obama?
12:02:04 >> No, sir.
12:02:04 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I for one am thrilled that you will be
12:02:17 assisting Mr. Snelling.
12:02:20 Mr. Snelling has a lot on his plate.
12:02:22 And he will certainly appreciate the help that you provide,
12:02:26 and in the school of sustainability, that's new.
12:02:35 It went from a part of USF to being a degree program in its
12:02:40 own school, so that's also a great plus for our community in
12:02:43 moving towards our green and sustainable economy.
12:02:47 I want Mr. Snelling to share my cell phone number with you,
12:02:53 because I have a few ideas of my own.
12:02:57 So welcome.
12:02:58 And I hope that even after you finish your internship you
12:03:03 decide to stay with us, because we certainly need the
12:03:06 energy, the intelligence and the dedication that you will
12:03:10 receive in your studies at USF.
12:03:12 >> Yes, ma'am.
12:03:14 Thank you.
12:03:14 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I was going to mention that you look like a
12:03:25 young Obama.
12:03:26 >> That was already mentioned whistle you were out of the
12:03:30 >> I thought, look at that kid in the back.
12:03:32 He looks like Obama.
12:03:33 And now
12:03:41 I am thrilled.
12:03:47 To come forth and produce the best of the best.
12:03:53 And USF was one of the supporters of moving forward with our
12:04:00 regional center, and EB-5 to their efforts to bring USF
12:04:12 So thank you.
12:04:17 >>HARRY COHEN: Thank you.
12:04:17 Mr. Snelling.
12:04:25 >>THOM SNELLING: The original resolution was passed in 2008
12:04:28 and asked that I come back on an annual basis and report the
12:04:31 activities that have taken place over the previous year on
12:04:34 our sustainability efforts.
12:04:36 And basically there are five areas as you can see, the green
12:04:40 environment, green spaces, operations, green building, and
12:04:44 then business and collaboration.
12:04:46 In terms of some of the green spaces, we are actively
12:04:50 expanding -- green spaces in the tree canopy.
12:04:54 We have the nature park.
12:04:55 The various parks listed up there.
12:04:58 Balance last point.
12:04:58 Waterworks Park.
12:05:00 Really celebrates the fact that wave honed in on trying to
12:05:03 stand our city's canopy, along with your management plan
12:05:07 that Cathy Coyle and her planning differentiation are
12:05:10 working on to get the thing up and running.
12:05:15 Continuing some of the green spaces.
12:05:17 What's significant on this slide is what I really wanted to
12:05:19 touch on, is the fact that you see the connectivity that's
12:05:22 really focusing and starting to take place in the urban core
12:05:28 of the city along with the green spine with the Selmon
12:05:34 What's not shown on here because it hasn't taken place yet
12:05:36 and hopefully will show up next year is the green corridor
12:05:39 that is part of the overall envision plan.
12:05:41 But it's really important because it starts to establish the
12:05:44 connectivity, the groan spaces, encouragements of multimodal
12:05:48 transportation, bike routes, transit routes, walking, all
12:05:52 lend towards reducing -- reducing he mission.
12:05:57 Again, I just touched on this.
12:05:59 Some of the green transit will be available and more
12:06:03 enhanced, the trails and ways, along with some of the other
12:06:07 programs with the overall bike lane.
12:06:13 Our effort is going forward as well as bike share program
12:06:20 Another part of the important thing the overall environment.
12:06:22 Sometimes because this isn't one of the real sexy kinds of
12:06:25 items, we tend to not knowledge, but just the slide,
12:06:29 deviating just a bit here, when director Slater showed the
12:06:33 slide that Councilman Reddick sent to him, that trash and
12:06:36 debris was a huge environmental problem, and cleaning it up
12:06:41 is a big part of the kinds of things that have to take
12:06:43 place, if not cleaned up, rats, disease happens, they get
12:06:49 rained on, they flow into the streets, and into the water
12:06:52 table sources, a cyclical kind of event and those kinds of
12:06:57 things are ignored.
12:06:58 So the motion, the river clean-ups all continues towards
12:07:03 Again, the green environment, which is terribly important,
12:07:06 is how we reenergize and reestablish our urban core with our
12:07:11 in-fill development.
12:07:12 The projects that you have listed here, the envision plan,
12:07:16 again, historic preservation I think does not get enough
12:07:23 fanfare or credit for what it does to readapt and reuse
12:07:27 existing buildings, keep tens out of the landfill as well as
12:07:31 encouraging use of existing resources rather than new
12:07:38 Continuing on the green environment.
12:07:40 I'm getting ahead of my notes.
12:07:43 These are just some of the efforts that we have, both at the
12:07:47 treatment facility, it's recycled and reprocessed, to serve
12:07:52 600,000 additional residents with reclaimed water.
12:08:00 That has expanded.
12:08:01 The monthly metering, that has improved, and it's improved.
12:08:06 It does help customers identify saving water, not only the
12:08:10 dollars that they are paying but also saves a precious
12:08:13 resource in that program as well.
12:08:15 And then there's been a number of other water conservation
12:08:17 programs that have gone forward with plumbing and leak kits
12:08:22 as well as the work shots that the water department does on
12:08:24 a regular basis.
12:08:27 The green environment continuing, again, sometimes people
12:08:30 don't realize the importance of something as simple as
12:08:35 perhaps a pump station.
12:08:36 Some of you may have been there when they turned the water
12:08:39 The significant piece about it is it helps the water levels
12:08:42 and adds freshwater to the -- additional freshwater to the
12:08:46 Hillsborough River, which also helps improve the Manatee
12:08:49 habitat which is why the Manatee was selected on that mural
12:08:53 these rate on Nebraska Avenue as you drive by.
12:08:56 Near the Sulphur Springs pool, actually spring itself.
12:08:59 And then, council, you pass the fertilizer ordinance,
12:09:04 phosphates, keeps them out of the water, helps with the
12:09:07 algae blooms, and helps with the environment.
12:09:10 Continuing with that, the energy efficiency conservation
12:09:13 plan which I mentioned before is one of the things that
12:09:19 Estevan will be helping us to continue on that effort and to
12:09:23 get that moving forward with some of the implementation and
12:09:25 policies that are in that plan itself.
12:09:28 The traffic signal that's being replaced, you will see that
12:09:31 again next year, because it's actually starting this year.
12:09:34 But what that does is that will help cars moving more
12:09:38 efficiently, less idling, less gridlock, we hope.
12:09:44 We'll see about that.
12:09:46 More green operations.
12:09:49 The overall recycling program, get up here and talk about
12:09:56 when they have installed the new containers that they are
12:09:59 They really can't get them -- if you have been driving
12:10:04 dropping off those recycling containers.
12:10:06 And that's a single stream that makes it more attractive.
12:10:10 To do so.
12:10:12 And then also the improvements that they have made.
12:10:16 MacKay Bay, 94% of material that do go in there are burned,
12:10:23 and produce electricity, the smoke stacks, keeps the
12:10:29 pollutants out of the air and does produce 20% of its own
12:10:35 Other opportunities, we have the solar parking which we have
12:10:38 expanded and we plan to continue to expand that.
12:10:41 Electric charging stations.
12:10:44 The pilot program exists.
12:10:45 We may expand on that as well.
12:10:50 Again, with more operations.
12:10:52 The gas, they recently did the ribbon cutting at the airport
12:11:00 showing off the vehicles that solid waste department has
12:11:04 Compressed natural gas, smaller, lighter, use less gas,
12:11:08 throw out far less emissions into the environment, as well
12:11:11 as they are much cheaper to operate.
12:11:13 And I think as you will find virtually anytime you find
12:11:17 something that is more energy efficient and more
12:11:18 conservation and is less to operate, that there are
12:11:21 emissions benefits linked to any of those efficiency
12:11:28 programs and operations.
12:11:29 And there's other examples of some of the alternative fuels,
12:11:32 whether it's ultra low sulfur diesel or compressed natural
12:11:43 The other item, too, is again not perhaps a terribly sexy
12:11:47 item but consumption down 2% over last year, and that comes
12:11:50 from more efficient routes not only for solid waste but for
12:11:56 most of the fleet operations, as well as smaller size
12:12:00 engines and down-sized vehicles making more appropriate
12:12:04 sizing the vehicles that are actually needed for the job
12:12:06 that they are doing.
12:12:07 And that's across virtually all departments.
12:12:13 Again the water pump station upgrade, the electric
12:12:15 generation that happens at the water -- the solid waste
12:12:21 And then utility capping and improvements that have
12:12:24 identified 25 utility related improvements from pump
12:12:28 stations to replacing existing pipelines, and any resource
12:12:33 that you can conserve means you have to produce less of that
12:12:37 resource, which consumes energy.
12:12:41 These items, the ones that I wanted to point out the fire
12:12:44 station 22 up in new Tampa.
12:12:46 That opened last year.
12:12:47 It was built to lead certified standards and they have a
12:12:52 number of landscaping, solar lighting, solar water heating
12:12:59 for the inside, as well as more usable and natural light.
12:13:06 Spring Hill community center, I believe silver standard.
12:13:12 The building that you have right there is the Encore
12:13:15 It's not actually a city building.
12:13:17 The city has expended a great deal of funds to build that
12:13:22 and it is being built to a lead certified standard.
12:13:25 And then we still do have the fast track permitting.
12:13:29 Admittedly not a lot of people are taking advantage of it
12:13:32 because hopefully in a few months there will be a nice
12:13:36 logjam and people can take advantage of that again.
12:13:42 Ooh PS oops and we are continuing with our collaboration,
12:13:45 perhaps our strong effort partner, housing subsidies, and
12:13:48 they have been very aggressive in trying to expand the green
12:13:50 business preservation program both with the city as well as
12:13:53 working with the downtown partnership.
12:13:55 And we continue to work with Hillsborough County.
12:14:04 And that's what I have.
12:14:05 A couple of things not in the presentation.
12:14:07 And there are things we are currently working on.
12:14:08 We are continuing with Hillsborough County, working with
12:14:11 Bonnie Wise and Randy with their program.
12:14:16 Trying to put out the RFP and we thought it made the most
12:14:19 sense to work with them and go along with T program that
12:14:22 they are working on because again it's a countywide effort,
12:14:24 and energy saving and efficiencies don't really follow
12:14:29 municipal and county boundary lines all that well,
12:14:31 especially since our energy provider serves both the city
12:14:37 and the county.
12:14:38 So that's one of the things that we continue on.
12:14:41 We also continue to work on Commissioner Sharpe's energy
12:14:44 conservation group, and attend that and participate in that.
12:14:48 And we himself reached out to the Environmental Protection
12:14:50 One of the things that they were very interested in working
12:14:52 with us to make operations more efficient and more
12:14:56 environmentally friendly is finding ways that we can work
12:15:00 with them, as part of our overall program, and some of the
12:15:04 improvements ware making there.
12:15:08 That's all I have.
12:15:11 I'll answer questions that you might have.
12:15:13 >>HARRY COHEN: Questions and comments from council members?
12:15:16 Councilwoman Montelione.
12:15:17 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
12:15:20 What I asked you to bring the report to us, it was because
12:15:25 June 21st of 2012 was the workshop that I had initiated
12:15:29 on sustainability, and quite some time has passed, not as
12:15:34 much progress as I would have liked to have seen happen has
12:15:39 occurred, but hopefully we are going to right that ship and
12:15:42 we are going to move a little more quickly with
12:15:46 institutes -- instituting some of the things that were
12:15:50 spoken about on June 21st of 2012.
12:15:56 The pace program has been around for a long time.
12:15:59 I don't notch why we haven't taken advantage of those
12:16:01 opportunities before, but I'm glad to see that moving
12:16:05 And I would appreciate any report back from the county
12:16:11 discussions that we have on that program.
12:16:13 There's also something the county looked into a couple of
12:16:16 years ago.
12:16:16 I don't know what the status is, what happens, if they
12:16:20 instituted it or not, but it was a private credit program.
12:16:25 There was an interest in looking into seeing as a revenue
12:16:30 source the sale of property credit by the municipality, in
12:16:38 our case the City of Tampa in, their case Hillsborough
12:16:41 County, because of the movement, people were looking to buy
12:16:48 and sell, and that may be something with our tightened
12:16:54 economy we may want to look into because we might want to
12:16:57 take advantage of that additional revenue stream.
12:17:00 And really, the report was great, Mr. Snelling, but it's a
12:17:04 lot of the same things that we have been hearing.
12:17:06 And really what I was hoping for was the new, the outside
12:17:15 the box thinking, the general overall stance that the city
12:17:23 is taking to be a sustainable city.
12:17:27 Now, we do a lot of things.
12:17:29 I mean, you just pointed out a multitude of things.
12:17:31 And there are things that probably are not in that report
12:17:33 that we are doing, because there's so many departments that
12:17:38 keep the green and sustainable issue in their mind when they
12:17:42 are making plans.
12:17:43 But we don't have, it seems, a coordinated effort.
12:17:47 And you are a green officer.
12:17:50 But I think there's so much going on throughout the city
12:17:54 that a coordinated effort, and a take-charge kind of
12:18:02 momentum has kind of gotten lost.
12:18:04 >>HARRY COHEN: I do need a motion for additional time.
12:18:08 A motion for five more minutes?
12:18:11 We have a motion for an additional five minutes from Mr.
12:18:13 Suarez, seconded by Councilwoman Montelione.
12:18:16 All those in favor please indicate by saying aye.
12:18:18 Okay. Five more minutes.
12:18:19 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Soap in closing, what I would like to
12:18:23 see is that the folks who are back here, were here in June
12:18:30 of 2012, reconvene.
12:18:37 Advices to that.
12:18:38 Since June, I don't know if all of them are still willing to
12:18:43 Some of them are here today, and we have additional people
12:18:45 here today that weren't part of the original conversation,
12:18:50 like you -- thank you for being here, and Janet Harrison --
12:18:55 but we really -- if we want to retain the best and the
12:18:58 brightest, like I spoke about earlier, and the mayor speaks
12:19:01 about all the time, if we want to be that city that is a
12:19:06 city of the future, and really plan to -- there are so many
12:19:11 efforts that we need to be undertaking and not just the
12:19:14 recycling, but some serious issues, like speaking about
12:19:20 whether -- changes in weather patterns, and looking at sea
12:19:25 level rise.
12:19:26 I mean, I don't want to be city that looks back as they did
12:19:31 in New York and New Jersey and say, oh, we should have done
12:19:35 something, because that storm is going to hit one day.
12:19:42 And one day we are going to find ourselves looking back and
12:19:44 saying we should have, and we didn't.
12:19:47 And I don't want to be that city.
12:19:49 I don't want to be that city that, you know, has complete
12:19:53 areas wiped out because we didn't change our building codes
12:19:55 in time.
12:19:57 We can't do a lot about the buildings that are here now.
12:20:01 But I think going forward in the future, we need to start
12:20:04 looking at some of those serious changes.
12:20:06 And it's something that a lot of people don't want to talk
12:20:10 But as we saw, and they are still struggling with it in New
12:20:14 York and New Jersey, and to the tune of multi-billions of
12:20:18 dollars and displaced families.
12:20:21 So I think that this conversation is more than just the warm
12:20:26 fuzzies that we like to talk about in our green building
12:20:30 >>HARRY COHEN: Okay.
12:20:32 Thank you very much.
12:20:33 I don't see any additional comments from council members.
12:20:36 Thank you, Mr. Snelling.
12:20:37 To those people in the public that are here for --
12:20:41 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I was going to make a motion.
12:20:43 Mr. Snelling had requested instead of having these be
12:20:46 quarterly reports that they be biannual reports.
12:20:49 I keep my word, Mr. Snelling.
12:20:50 So I would like to move these reports come back biannually
12:20:55 instead of quarterly.
12:20:56 >>HARRY COHEN: Do I hear a second?
12:20:59 Councilwoman Capin?
12:21:01 >>YVONNE CAPIN: I want to remained Councilwoman Montelione
12:21:03 they are all very excellent points, and that in June 21, I
12:21:08 was the only person that notified --
12:21:13 >> Thank you.
12:21:13 >> And made sure there was a quorum for this.
12:21:15 >> I appreciate it.
12:21:18 And I look forward to it in six months.
12:21:20 >>HARRY COHEN: I do think we need to set the date, though,
12:21:24 for that.
12:21:25 So six months from now would be sometime in July, perhaps
12:21:32 July 18th.
12:21:34 >> July --
12:21:42 >> Perhaps August 1st might be better because July
12:21:45 18th is the first meeting back from your break, and
12:21:49 normally that's a longer agenda.
12:21:51 >>HARRY COHEN: Why don't we go ahead and do it on August
12:21:54 >> August 1st, 10 a.m., staff report.
12:21:57 >> We have a motion from Councilwoman Montelione, second by
12:22:00 Councilwoman Capin, to have a staff report on August
12:22:03 All those in favor please indicate by saying aye.
12:22:07 Opposed? Okay.
12:22:08 To those members in the public that are here for the other
12:22:10 items that are on our agenda, I apologize, but according to
12:22:14 council rules we are going to break for lunch and we will be
12:22:18 in recess until 2:00 p.m. and we will take up the rest of
12:22:22 our items at that time.
12:22:24 We will begin with item number 39 on the agenda.
12:22:29 >> Can I hear a motion to receive and file before -- we have
12:22:36 a motion from come upman Reddick, seconded by Councilwoman
12:22:40 All those in favor indicate by saying aye.
12:22:43 Thank you.
12:22:46 We are in recess till 2:00.
This file represents an unedited version of realtime
captioning which should neither be relied upon for complete
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Tampa City Council
Thursday, February 21, 2013
2:00 p.m. session
This file represents an unedited version of realtime
captioning which should neither be relied upon for complete
accuracy nor used as a verbatim transcript.
The original of this file was produced in all capital
letters and any variation thereto may be a result of third
party edits and software compatibility issues.
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.
02:03:45 [Sounding gavel]
02:03:46 >>HARRY COHEN: Good afternoon everyone.
02:03:48 City Council's afternoon session is now in session.
02:03:51 Will the clerk please call the roll?
02:03:53 >>THE CLERK: Yes.
02:03:55 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Here.
02:03:57 >>FRANK REDDICK: Here.
02:03:58 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
02:03:59 >>HARRY COHEN: Here.
02:04:05 Okay. We are going to take number 45 out of order so that
02:04:10 we can just move along with our agenda.
02:04:13 45 is, I believe, on our -- and item for consideration
02:04:19 because it's a contract for over a million dollars.
02:04:22 So if we can hear from the fire department to answer any
02:04:26 questions regarding this item.
02:04:27 >> Good morning, Mr. Chair.
02:04:36 Good afternoon, I should say.
02:04:38 Nick Lacitro, representing chief Tom Forward in this item
02:04:45 number 45.
02:04:46 Really, I'm here representing chief.
02:04:48 And if there are any questions that you would have.
02:04:52 This item was placed -- will replace fire station 11, which
02:04:59 is one of the oldest in the area that we have as far as
02:05:05 stations, much overdo, built in the mid 50s.
02:05:08 So your consideration in this matter is greatly appreciated
02:05:12 in moving forward.
02:05:14 >> Where is 11 located?
02:05:16 >> Really the landmark is near the dog track as we speak
02:05:19 This will be in the area of 1500 west waters, the new site.
02:05:25 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilwoman Mulhern.
02:05:28 >>MARY MULHERN: Is this improvements or are you building a
02:05:31 new building?
02:05:32 >> Yes on both.
02:05:33 It is an improvement.
02:05:36 Yes, ma'am, it is.
02:05:37 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
02:05:40 >> Move approval.
02:05:41 >> Second.
02:05:41 >>HARRY COHEN: We have a motion from Mr. Reddick, seconded
02:05:44 by Mrs. Mulhern in a close vote with Mr. Suarez to approve
02:05:47 the resolution.
02:05:48 All those in favor, please indicate by saying aye. Opposed?
02:05:52 Okay. Motion passes.
02:05:56 Thank you very much.
02:05:56 Good afternoon.
02:05:57 We are going to move on now to item number 41 which is a
02:06:05 report from Ms. Coyle regarding rooming house regulations.
02:06:15 It does not appear we have anyone here from the city to
02:06:18 answer any of our questions regarding any of these items, so
02:06:23 we'll just wait until --
02:06:30 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I saw Mrs. Mandell when I was walking in so
02:06:33 she must be up here somewhere.
02:06:35 At least I thought she was.
02:06:37 >>HARRY COHEN: Why don't we go ahead and do 43,
02:06:39 Councilwoman Mulhern, and we'll give them a chance to come
02:06:42 Number 43 is Mr. Reddick's motion regarding our having a
02:06:46 discussion about scheduling a second evening meeting to deal
02:06:52 with the large number of zonings that we have started to
02:06:56 entertain as a result of our meetings running late.
02:07:00 >>FRANK REDDICK: Mr. Chair, I think we all received a memo
02:07:06 from the city clerk Shirley Foxx-Knowles regarding this
02:07:11 >>HARRY COHEN: Yes, we did.
02:07:12 >>FRANK REDDICK: And based on her recommendation, she
02:07:18 stated that these meetings would be scheduled -- a second
02:07:26 meeting for code amendment, text map amendment to the Tampa
02:07:31 comprehensive plan, and if this is the case I would like to
02:07:35 move the recommendation.
02:07:35 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Planning and develop.
02:07:41 Ironically, there were three of us that independently looked
02:07:45 at this and came to the same conclusion.
02:07:46 I actually happened to be here many years ago doing the
02:07:50 rezonings when we had two meetings a month, and occasionally
02:07:54 three, actually per month.
02:07:56 And we had upwards of 15 to 18 cases per night of just
02:08:00 rezonings and special uses.
02:08:02 You actually do not have enough zoning and special use
02:08:06 We have looked back at the last 13 to 14 months.
02:08:08 You don't actually have enough cases to warrant a second
02:08:11 night for those types of cases.
02:08:12 You are running between six and eight on average of those
02:08:15 types of cases.
02:08:16 What is pushing you up in the numbers occasionally when we
02:08:20 do schedule those code amendments, plan amendment, when we
02:08:23 do the area rezonings for like the zone based areas, CDBG
02:08:29 cases, things like that that come forward that just add
02:08:32 items to your agenda.
02:08:33 So it's within your rules to schedule a second meeting.
02:08:37 You have the ability to do that ad hoc, or in perpetuity.
02:08:41 Our recommendation is if you do schedule a second one that
02:08:44 you would set that aside for those other things.
02:08:48 I only schedule mine on the night that you have, because
02:08:51 that's the night that you have.
02:08:52 >>HARRY COHEN: As a point of clarity, you are really
02:08:56 talking about the items we normally take when we start at
02:09:00 That's the way we do that.
02:09:02 And what you are suggesting is that we move those items to
02:09:08 an optional second meeting, but that we leave our zonings in
02:09:16 place on the second Thursday of the month, in the evening.
02:09:21 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Yes.
02:09:21 >>HARRY COHEN: Are there any council members that would
02:09:24 like -- Mr. Reddick did make a motion.
02:09:27 Is there a second for his motion?
02:09:30 And then we can open it to discussion.
02:09:31 >>FRANK REDDICK: Basically, the motion states exactly what
02:09:36 she's saying, because the clerk is requesting the fourth
02:09:44 Thursday, and she also indicated what you just stated, the
02:09:48 CDBG beings text map amendments, and the other comprehensive
02:09:52 >>HARRY COHEN: Do I hear a second before we have
02:09:57 And then we'll get to discussion.
02:09:59 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes, the second meeting is an ad hoc meeting
02:10:04 as needed.
02:10:06 As the doctor says, "as needed."
02:10:09 >>HARRY COHEN: As a point of clarification, that second
02:10:11 meeting of the month would only be scheduled if we needed to
02:10:14 have it.
02:10:20 >> Depending on the text amendments.
02:10:25 I actually spoke with Mr. Shimberg, too, yesterday at
02:10:30 We kind of narrowed it down from my perspective that even if
02:10:33 it was just quarterly where you have that kind of tentative
02:10:35 meeting set on your calendar, and then if we come up to that
02:10:39 date and we don't need it, you could simply cancel it.
02:10:42 But I don't know that we would need any more than quarterly
02:10:45 because the way my text amendment happen, plan amendment,
02:10:48 the schedule for those, the quarterly would probably be good
02:10:51 Then you can cancel if when don't need it.
02:10:55 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Quarterly on the fourth Thursday?
02:10:57 >> Yes, second and fourth for council.
02:11:00 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilwoman Mulhern.
02:11:04 >>MARY MULHERN: That's fine with me.
02:11:06 Sounds great as long as it is still ad hoc, if we don't need
02:11:09 a quarterly meeting, we don't have it.
02:11:11 >>HARRY COHEN: Anyone else?
02:11:15 If not let's have a vote on Mr. Reddick's motion, seconded
02:11:18 by Ms. Capin.
02:11:20 All those in favor please indicate by saying aye.
02:11:23 Opposed? Okay.
02:11:24 So we will be scheduling those meetings on an as-needed
02:11:29 basis going forward.
02:11:30 Thank you very much.
02:11:33 Why don't we go back then to item number 41, which is the
02:11:37 item regarding rooming houses.
02:11:39 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Planning and development.
02:11:45 The rooming house changes were pretty straightforward.
02:11:48 The last time we were here there were a couple of items that
02:11:50 we talked about, tweaking the language, and we identified
02:11:54 those very clearly on the record.
02:11:56 So I believe T.H.A.N. has written in that they were in
02:11:59 support of the rooming house changes.
02:12:01 And I believe you received another e-mail from VM Ybor as
02:12:04 well in support of the changes.
02:12:05 Specifically, that it's clarified that it's two adults,
02:12:12 children, along with the adults that live in the unit, that
02:12:15 there's 150 square foot minimum, and that we would be
02:12:19 striking that table in chapter 19 with the water closet and
02:12:25 public plumbing facilities, and that we would put a specific
02:12:28 reference back to the Florida building code plumbing code
02:12:31 for water fixtures.
02:12:33 We would actually ask to transmit to the Planning
02:12:38 >>HARRY COHEN: Any comments, questions, or additional items
02:12:42 for council members to discuss?
02:12:48 Councilwoman Mulhern.
02:12:50 >>MARY MULHERN: I'll move to transmit item 41 to the
02:12:54 Planning Commission.
02:12:56 >> Second.
02:12:58 >>HARRY COHEN: We have a motion from Councilwoman Mulhern,
02:13:00 seconded by Councilman Suarez.
02:13:02 All those in favor please indicate by saying aye.
02:13:04 Opposed? Okay.
02:13:07 Motion passes unanimously.
02:13:14 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I believe we are on 42.
02:13:16 >>HARRY COHEN: Item 42, that's right.
02:13:17 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Part A and part B, chickens in the first
02:13:22 part and animals in the second part, and I believe another
02:13:29 sheet this morning, but I think timingwise I think I was
02:13:32 actually confused.
02:13:33 I think the animal rescue item is actually next week for
02:13:36 workshop potentially.
02:13:37 >>HARRY COHEN: I believe that's correct.
02:13:40 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I went ahead and gave that to you anyway
02:13:43 ahead of time, because we pulled the Hillsborough County
02:13:47 regs which were amended not too long ago to deal with
02:13:51 animals, specifically references to animal rescue as well.
02:13:54 And the reason I bring it up is because we have got a
02:13:57 chickens regulation out there, potential chicken regulation,
02:14:01 we have the changes to the animal regulations, and then we
02:14:04 have the animal rescue proposed language coming forward, and
02:14:07 they all deal with the same language.
02:14:08 So I wanted to be -- not have to amend those things three or
02:14:13 four different times and have different versions.
02:14:15 I just wanted to be clear on what we are moving forward
02:14:18 W.the last time I was here a couple weeks ago, I did write
02:14:20 the chickens, which was this document, titled chickens.
02:14:26 >>HARRY COHEN: The animal rescue workshop will be held on
02:14:32 April 25th. So that is a bit of aways away.
02:14:37 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Okay.
02:14:42 There's actually a very simple way to do it.
02:14:44 And if you want to do it, that's fine.
02:14:50 The chicken document that you received a couple weeks ago,
02:14:53 and then there was the comprehensive update with the
02:14:57 And if you recall, we had written them so that if chickens
02:15:01 moved forward, it is easily with the animal piece.
02:15:06 If it dies then the animal piece can actually stand alone.
02:15:09 I wrote them so they could work off of each other that way.
02:15:15 I received various e-mails and comments about chickens, some
02:15:19 for, some against, and I believe they sent you their
02:15:24 recommend dated the 21st, where they are opposing
02:15:29 chickens that we have on file.
02:15:31 Just for reference, the animal rescue issue, in doing the
02:15:37 research for that, what the county sent us back, and we
02:15:40 talked through some different interpretations they have over
02:15:43 there, their definitions, with their recent amendments, the
02:15:50 entire kennel and animal regulations, and I want to make it
02:15:54 clear for City Council that in residential zoning districts
02:15:56 in the county, you cannot have chickens.
02:15:59 So if that means anything to council one way or the other, I
02:16:03 thought it was an interesting point to make, because the
02:16:05 city would have them and the county would not.
02:16:08 Not that that's good, bad or indifferent, but I thought it
02:16:12 was kind of ironic when I read that today.
02:16:14 >> The city has a domestic partnership orthopedics and the
02:16:18 county doesn't.
02:16:21 >>CATHERINE COYLE: And I did read about interspecies
02:16:24 marriage as well, just so you know.
02:16:27 [ Laughter ]
02:16:28 >>HARRY COHEN: Are there any council members that would
02:16:33 like to talk to Mrs. Coyle about this issue?
02:16:36 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Ms. Coyle, you made a mention of something
02:16:39 that we talked about earlier today about the county
02:16:43 prohibits chickens.
02:16:47 >> In residential zoning districts you are not allowed to
02:16:49 keep chickens.
02:16:51 That's correct.
02:16:52 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Do you know how long ago that went into
02:16:56 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The amendments we just got were probably
02:16:59 adopted within the last year, year and a half.
02:17:01 Dy not go back to the last code part of it to see whether or
02:17:05 not they were allowed.
02:17:09 >>MIKE SUAREZ: And the chicken ordinance, or concerning
02:17:11 what we dealt with with Ybor City and chickens and some
02:17:14 other things, how far back does that go typically?
02:17:18 It's been a long time.
02:17:19 >> Well, in my research for alcohol, I have found that this
02:17:24 city has cared a lot about alcohol and a lot about chickens
02:17:28 since the dawn of the city.
02:17:29 >> But not alcoholic chickens?
02:17:35 >>CATHERINE COYLE: No.
02:17:36 [ Laughter ]
02:17:36 I actually --
02:17:38 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Probably about 80, 90 years it's been on the
02:17:42 books or something like that?
02:17:44 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Actually right after the last session
02:17:46 this morning I went in and was lag through it the 1939 code
02:17:48 of ordinances, and there's an entire animal chapter and many
02:17:52 sections on fowl and whether or not you can keep them.
02:17:55 >> So over 70 years, there's been discussion about it
02:17:58 primarily because the county was the city, essentially. In
02:18:01 terms of population, most of the population was within the
02:18:05 city limits or pretty close to it.
02:18:09 Taken up by most of the unincorporated area.
02:18:12 So chickens was an issue because there were a lot of
02:18:15 immigrant families that cared for animals.
02:18:17 I know that my grandmother's family, they had chickens and
02:18:21 goats and cows and pretty much anything you can imagine on a
02:18:25 plot of land in West Tampa.
02:18:27 So obviously things have changed significantly since then.
02:18:30 And the reason I wanted to know a little about the history
02:18:33 of it is that obviously the county has become a different
02:18:36 county than they used to be in terms of prohibiting chickens
02:18:41 We are essentially saying same in some ways, different in
02:18:48 The regulation that you have presented to us now would only
02:18:51 allow chickens if they have a 5,000 square foot lot, five
02:18:56 chicken per 5,000 square foot, correct?
02:18:58 >> Ratio of one to one.
02:19:00 >> For every thousand feet --
02:19:02 >> Is a chicken, yes.
02:19:04 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I know there's a joke in there somewhere and
02:19:07 I am not going to foe do go there.
02:19:09 For 55,000 square feet most of the lots are about 5,000
02:19:14 square feet throughout the city on average.
02:19:15 >> Yes, on average.
02:19:17 >>MIKE SUAREZ: So this will essentially say pretty much
02:19:20 anybody can have at least five chickens.
02:19:26 This lends itself to too much comedy but I am not going to
02:19:29 go there with it.
02:19:29 But in terms of what this does and what this changes, it
02:19:33 will allow almost anyone to have chickens in their yard, if
02:19:37 they have 5,000 square feet of lot size.
02:19:42 >> As long as their property isn't necessarily built out
02:19:48 Single-family detached, and semi-detached, not multifamily,
02:19:53 no apartment complexes.
02:19:55 They can't have them.
02:19:56 But, yes, houses can.
02:19:57 >>MIKE SUAREZ: So would you say this is loosening the reins
02:20:04 on chickens?
02:20:05 >> We currently have a 200-foot separation so that would go
02:20:10 down to the setbacks.
02:20:10 >> We are more restrictive now than what this ordinance will
02:20:14 then change and makes it less restrictive?
02:20:16 >> That's correct.
02:20:17 >> I just want to clarify on that.
02:20:19 Because, you know, we have talked a lot about animals and
02:20:22 kennels and some other stuff, and when we talked about
02:20:24 chicken it is first time, it was about where we can allow
02:20:28 them, what we are going to allow them for, you know, the
02:20:31 Ybor City, we leave it as is and then everything else after
02:20:36 that is how this all started, you know, people wanting to do
02:20:40 something similar to what's in Ybor City or something a
02:20:43 little less restrictive.
02:20:45 I just want to make sure I got the gist of everything, after
02:20:48 all these months that we are on the right track, or, excuse
02:20:51 me, that I understand what has already been represented to
02:20:55 So thank you, Mrs. Coyle.
02:20:56 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilwoman Mulhern and then Mr. Reddick.
02:20:59 >>MARY MULHERN: You have a draft ordinance in here, right?
02:21:06 >>CATHERINE COYLE: It's not the ordinance.
02:21:07 It just the proposed language.
02:21:09 Because we are transmitting to the Planning Commission.
02:21:11 >>MARY MULHERN: That's what we would be doing today?
02:21:15 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Uh-huh.
02:21:15 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want to say that I think that you
02:21:18 have worked pretty hard to make some compromise -- ask you,
02:21:24 not tell you, but you have worked for some compromises for
02:21:28 some of the people who didn't want chickens at all, right?
02:21:31 The reduction from -- the increasing the setbacks somewhat,
02:21:37 reducing the number of animals allowed.
02:21:44 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The bullet points in the chicken
02:21:48 regulation were written in per the motion of council.
02:21:51 Because the very first workshop that we came to, I present
02:21:56 content to you and offered that you can either have a
02:21:59 maximum number of chickens, you can have -- I think I have
02:22:04 three in there -- or you can see the ratio.
02:22:07 Right now it's 5,000 for 5,000 square feet, a one to one
02:22:11 ratio, except in the current code you have a 200-foot
02:22:14 The original motion was for me to go back and having a
02:22:18 separation of less than 100 feet.
02:22:20 So less than 100 feet.
02:22:21 What I came back was the option.
02:22:24 Obviously '99 would have been less but then said could you
02:22:28 do some setbacks, because you are looking at that
02:22:33 single-family lot.
02:22:33 Having a 200-foot separation basically prohibits them.
02:22:36 But you can do accessory setbacks, if you have a coop on the
02:22:40 property, you can attach it to the house like a lean-to.
02:22:44 Council after that discussion motioned for accessory
02:22:48 structure setbacks.
02:22:49 That's what is contained in the document.
02:22:50 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
02:22:53 >>CATHERINE COYLE: And if you have to have a coop on the
02:22:55 property, what was not directed -- because we talked about
02:22:59 whether or not they always had to be in the coop or whether
02:23:01 they could roam free in the bark yard as long as it was
02:23:05 fenced, and they could roam free, but the coop had to be
02:23:10 there in case it became a problem, you could -- that way.
02:23:17 And as far as the accessory structure standards, and then
02:23:25 including the domestic egg laying chickens, and just to
02:23:29 clarify, it's not roosters.
02:23:31 You all specifically prohibited roosters.
02:23:33 So including them also in kennels, because my thought was we
02:23:36 were going to allow them, and the vets will probably want to
02:23:40 start treating them at some point.
02:23:42 And if they do, we have to allow them the ability to take in
02:23:45 the chicken and try to treat it.
02:23:48 So that was the reason why it carried through in the small
02:23:53 and large kennels.
02:23:54 I was anticipating having that type of specialty.
02:23:59 I mean, at this point it's really the policy decision of
02:24:02 City Council.
02:24:03 Just to couple that with the information I gave you about
02:24:08 the county not allowing chickens in residential districts.
02:24:11 I will say in urban agriculture as a movement is going
02:24:14 across the nation.
02:24:15 There are many cities, not so many in Florida yet, but there
02:24:18 are many cities around the country that have Do allow
02:24:21 certain types of agriculture on urban settings.
02:24:23 Chickens seem to be one of the predominant ones.
02:24:26 What is allowed in residential zoning districts in the
02:24:28 county is honey bee keeping, and the state did pass a law
02:24:33 last year that allows you to keep bees to a certain extent,
02:24:37 even in your home -- not in your home but on your
02:24:40 residential land.
02:24:41 There are limitations in the county for bee keeping, that
02:24:44 you can do it in residential districts.
02:24:46 So it's not unheard of for these types of things to come
02:24:49 back into these settings.
02:24:51 We would -- just the first one in this area.
02:24:56 >>MARY MULHERN: In Hillsborough County?
02:24:59 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Yes.
02:25:00 Orlando is a pilot program.
02:25:01 They haven't amended their code yet.
02:25:03 >>MARY MULHERN: St. Pete?
02:25:05 >> St. Pete going through theirs, they do allow it city by
02:25:10 Most of the smaller beach communities don't.
02:25:12 >>MARY MULHERN: I think the city of St. Pete does, don't
02:25:15 >>CATHERINE COYLE: There's still a distance separation.
02:25:17 It's not as bad.
02:25:18 Not 200 feet.
02:25:19 >>MARY MULHERN: Cathy, do you remember when we first
02:25:27 started talking about this?
02:25:29 Has it been like at least a year?
02:25:33 >>CATHERINE COYLE: It's been awhile.
02:25:35 >>MARY MULHERN: I think you have done a good job.
02:25:38 I'm fine with this.
02:25:39 I know that there are some people that really, really don't
02:25:49 want it.
02:25:49 But before you sit down, Cathy, is this limited to --
02:25:59 >> There's no restriction on the use.
02:26:01 the single-family detached and semi-detached.
02:26:06 So anything, townhouses, multifamily, they can't have the
02:26:09 Just if you have either a one-unit or two-unit property.
02:26:14 We don't want to put massive coops on big multifamily
02:26:18 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, I think it's fine.
02:26:21 I think I would like to see it go forward.
02:26:26 And I just want to let the anti-chicken people know, as I
02:26:31 have told -- when I met with T.H.A.N., told them that I
02:26:37 think there are lots and lots of chickens in our
02:26:39 neighborhoods, and you don't know about them because they
02:26:43 usually aren't a problem.
02:26:48 I know people are really worried about it, but in general
02:26:51 they are not, and we really don't have any -- you know, once
02:26:54 we have some regulations on the books that people have too
02:26:56 many, or they are letting them out of their yard and they
02:26:59 are wandering the neighborhood and chasing councilmen
02:27:02 around, then they will have an ordinance that will, you
02:27:05 know, something to enforce.
02:27:10 And I just think it's really -- it's going to be okay.
02:27:14 It going to be okay.
02:27:15 And I would have been fine if you wanted to restrict it to
02:27:18 just the RS-50 neighborhood because I know Ms. Vizzi is very
02:27:26 adamant about it.
02:27:27 But I'm fine with it the way it is.
02:27:28 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilman Reddick.
02:27:33 >>FRANK REDDICK: Ms. Coyle, did I hear you correctly when
02:27:40 you said -- did you state that people take chickens to a
02:27:48 >>CATHERINE COYLE: To a what?
02:27:50 >>FRANK REDDICK: Vet.
02:27:52 Earlier did you mention that?
02:27:54 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Yes, because we are amending the kennel
02:27:56 definitions as well to clean those up.
02:27:58 I included domestic egg laying chickens on a limited basis
02:28:02 and small kennels and slightly larger in the large kennels
02:28:08 just anticipating veterinary offices potentially, you know,
02:28:11 the farm oriented vets or some type of specialty that maybe
02:28:15 they would treat the chickens.
02:28:19 What I understand from a lot of these people is they are
02:28:21 eating eggs but they are also pets.
02:28:24 What I read or heard, people are name them and everything
02:28:28 And if they are pets they are going to want to treat them as
02:28:31 they get sick.
02:28:32 So I was trying to be a little more progressive, if we are
02:28:35 going to allow them we better account for them.
02:28:39 >>FRANK REDDICK: I wanted to make sure I understand
02:28:41 I wanted to make sure.
02:28:42 And let me just ask you about the enforcement issue.
02:28:47 Who is responsible -- who will be responsible for enforcing
02:28:52 this ordinance, which seems like it's going to pass, but who
02:29:00 will be responsible for enforcing?
02:29:03 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Code enforcement.
02:29:04 >>FRANK REDDICK: Code enforcement?
02:29:08 Are you aware that chickens can fly?
02:29:19 >>CATHERINE COYLE: They are a bird.
02:29:20 I don't know.
02:29:22 >>FRANK REDDICK: Well, chickens can fly.
02:29:24 And if they are going to be allowed to roam around
02:29:26 somebody's backyard, okay, that means somebody is going to
02:29:33 fly over somebody's fence.
02:29:34 And if a chicken flies in my yard, say my neighbor has a
02:29:46 chicken and the chicken flew over the fence in my yard, who
02:29:49 do I call, code enforcement?
02:29:53 >>CATHERINE COYLE: If it's in your yard?
02:29:54 >>FRANK REDDICK: Right.
02:29:56 If it flew up and --
02:29:58 >> I was going to be funny and say you could have a
02:30:00 >> That's probably what will happen.
02:30:04 [ Laughter ]
02:30:10 >>CATHERINE COYLE: By the way, because Mrs. McNair had to
02:30:13 leave, she patted me on the shoulder and she wanted to make
02:30:16 clear that she doesn't want people to keep chickens.
02:30:19 She eats chickens.
02:30:21 She lakes to eat them, not keep them.
02:30:23 I thought I would put that out there.
02:30:28 I guess you would call code enforcement on that.
02:30:30 I mean, it is an animal, and it could fall under a nuisance
02:30:34 animal running loose.
02:30:36 The rub with chickens if S that we are a bird sanctuary as
02:30:41 It is a bird.
02:30:42 If you have these birds roaming free, that's why the
02:30:44 chickens that are running free, they cannot be bothered.
02:30:50 It's actually unlawful to mess with them.
02:30:52 So in talking to Mr. Slater about it, the hardest part of
02:30:56 enforcement is if they do get out into the public
02:30:59 Hopefully you will have responsible chicken owners that
02:31:03 claim them.
02:31:03 But we won't be able to necessarily round them up.
02:31:06 That's one of the issues with the bird sanctuary
02:31:11 declaration that we have.
02:31:11 >>FRANK REDDICK: Wait a minute.
02:31:17 If they get out and they are strolling down the sidewalk,
02:31:20 code enforcement can't come by and scoop them up?
02:31:25 >> No.
02:31:26 And they don't.
02:31:27 That's why they roam free.
02:31:29 >>FRANK REDDICK: All right.
02:31:32 Well, that's a problem.
02:31:36 >>CATHERINE COYLE: It is an enforcement issue.
02:31:37 We are hoping people will claim them, but that's an issue.
02:31:40 >>FRANK REDDICK: And let me just say, you know, you can
02:31:44 drive down 21st Avenue he have day, and I don't know if
02:31:49 they are chickens or roosters or something like that, and
02:31:53 the people at the Florida sentinel will tell you, they are
02:32:00 all on top of their cars, they always go to the restroom on
02:32:06 top of their cars, and that's a problem for us.
02:32:09 And the people that live up in that area will also tell you
02:32:12 that they also just have a habit of kicking up your flower
02:32:22 bed and mulch and having else you put down.
02:32:26 And that's why they are a nuisance.
02:32:33 My only concern is -- and, you know, I just think personally
02:32:37 that if you are going to raise chicken beings breed
02:32:44 chickens, you should do it out in the unincorporated area of
02:32:47 the county.
02:32:48 You have all the land you want out there to do it.
02:32:50 And you can raise chickens, hogs, goats, anything you want.
02:32:53 I know back in the early days of growing up people talk
02:32:56 about they had chickens, and in West Tampa, but we have a
02:33:03 changed environment now.
02:33:06 And I don't think it's fair to have somebody to have five
02:33:11 chickens as my neighbor, and I'm having to deal with the
02:33:23 smell of the chickens, I'm having to deal with the chickens
02:33:29 getting loose and flying over the fence in my yard, and I
02:33:34 went through that experience.
02:33:35 And I want to tell you, it was not a pleasant experience.
02:33:40 Unless you go through it.
02:33:42 And I don't know anybody that's had this experience before,
02:33:46 but he have time you come home, and they tore up everything
02:33:49 around your wall, kicked everything out, you go to sleep at
02:33:55 night, and I go get the paper a, and you get tired of doing
02:34:01 this, and then they go up in a tree and go to sleep.
02:34:04 And that's why I know chickens can fly because they fly up
02:34:09 in that tree.
02:34:10 And the thing is, I'm thinking I'm not going to support it.
02:34:21 This going to the Planning Commission.
02:34:22 But I just want to say eventually it's going to be an
02:34:28 enforcement issue.
02:34:29 We are already talking about code enforcement is overload
02:34:34 with responsibilities, and it seems like we continue to add
02:34:36 on additional responsibility to code enforcement.
02:34:39 And I don't think they are going to be able to enforce this
02:34:41 issue because they are not going to have the manpower.
02:34:44 And I would feel bad as a citizen and as a taxpayer to have
02:34:53 to call code enforcement out about a chicken roaming the
02:35:00 And have to wait for code enforcement to come out, and you
02:35:08 saw you can't pick them up.
02:35:11 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Well, I will add two things based on what
02:35:13 you mentioned. We have regulations about animal feces and
02:35:17 odor and noise so there are potential violations there in
02:35:20 case they do get obviously too smelly or tear up property or
02:35:26 As far as the bird sanctuary, it is something that we can
02:35:29 look at.
02:35:30 I'm not sure if it's state act or state law.
02:35:35 Westerly certainly go back to look at it to see if there are
02:35:39 any exclusions but I can't guarantee anything without
02:35:41 looking at the legal department.
02:35:43 >>FRANK REDDICK: And the last item I have, Mr. Chair, once
02:35:54 the chicken can no longer produce eggs, then it becomes a
02:36:02 They have a choice to put him in boiling water or get rid of
02:36:08 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I think if they are treating it as a pet,
02:36:10 they would keep it.
02:36:13 I would assume.
02:36:13 >>FRANK REDDICK: We have that thing in there -- and I think
02:36:18 you mentioned it -- is there anything about dead chicken?
02:36:25 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Dead chickens?
02:36:27 >>FRANK REDDICK: Chickens, not children.
02:36:31 >>CATHERINE COYLE: No, no.
02:36:32 They would consider that they are falling under domesticated
02:36:35 animal provision.
02:36:36 It would be the same thing as a dead cat or dead dog,
02:36:39 dispose of in the same way.
02:36:41 Cremation or however they do it.
02:36:44 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you.
02:36:46 >>HARRY COHEN: Thank you, Mr. Reddick.
02:36:48 Ms. Capin.
02:36:52 Mrs. Montelione?
02:36:53 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Just from personal experience from W
02:36:56 code enforcement and chickens, several years ago before I
02:37:00 was sitting here, so it has nothing to do with me being a
02:37:03 council member, but there was someone around the corner from
02:37:05 me had a corner lot, and just a chain link fence, and they
02:37:10 were keeping chickens.
02:37:12 And the yard was a mess.
02:37:16 I mean, it was really, really bad.
02:37:19 And several of my neighbors, the civic association, myself,
02:37:24 we all called code enforcement and they cleaned it up.
02:37:27 And obviously then the chickens were illegal to have in the
02:37:33 They didn't have, you know, proper upkeep, and it was just a
02:37:37 terrible mess.
02:37:38 Code enforcement went in and did what they needed to do,
02:37:43 from a nuisance point of view and from a public safety, and
02:37:47 health point of view.
02:37:48 So while they can't confiscate the chickens if they are, you
02:37:52 know, maybe running around wild, the code enforcement does
02:37:55 have avenues to address yards of homeowners that are a
02:38:01 public nuisance.
02:38:04 Either that or my pit bull was just going to have lunch,
02:38:07 which almost happened one day when the chicken was sitting
02:38:10 on top of the fence, and the pit bull noticed there was a
02:38:14 chicken on the fence.
02:38:15 Ms. Coyle, I received and I'm assuming the rest of council
02:38:20 members received a document that looks kind of like this, in
02:38:23 content and economic potential financial risk impact.
02:38:27 Do you know where this came from?
02:38:29 There is no author's name or source.
02:38:33 It's very anti-chicken.
02:38:36 But there is also several places in here where it's very
02:38:41 subjective and written --
02:38:43 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I haven't yet.
02:38:44 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Okay, thank you.
02:38:48 One thing that caught my ear when you were talking about the
02:38:51 actual implementation in the code was something brought up
02:38:56 by T.H.A.N. was the chicken coop issue, and said meet
02:39:01 accessory structure standards.
02:39:02 We are only talking about the standards for setback for
02:39:05 accessory structures?
02:39:07 Or talking about the whole slew of accessory structures,
02:39:10 standard we have in our building code?
02:39:16 And the reason I ask that is because if it's only the
02:39:19 setback, and accessory structure standards, that's fine with
02:39:25 me and I agree with that.
02:39:26 But I would have -- I would take issue with having chicken
02:39:32 coops meet all the accessory standards because there might
02:39:35 be a lot of things that were meant for garages, or sheds,
02:39:42 you know, woodworking sheds, or those kinds of things which
02:39:47 wouldn't apply to chicken coops.
02:39:49 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Then we could specify immediately of a
02:39:53 that statement that is for setback.
02:39:56 >>LISA MONTELIONE: That would be very helpful.
02:40:00 Don't want somebody in a building code violation because
02:40:02 they didn't pull a permit to build the chicken coop.
02:40:06 >> You don't have to have a building permit for less than
02:40:08 150 square feet anyway.
02:40:10 But who knows?
02:40:11 Somebody might want to have a luxurious chicken coop.
02:40:15 >> I found a very beautiful coop, believe it or not, like a
02:40:22 doll house.
02:40:23 But what you could have if you just wanted a setback, then I
02:40:26 suggest maybe we put a size, a square footage maximum, and
02:40:30 then a height limitation as well.
02:40:31 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Okay.
02:40:36 Trust me, as soon as you said accessory code standards I'm
02:40:40 thinking, oh, my goodness that would put a lot of standard
02:40:43 on building a chicken coop where it would become cost
02:40:46 prohibitive to people who are keeping chickens to actually
02:40:50 build one.
02:40:50 So if we just add that accessory structure standard for
02:40:55 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Okay.
02:40:59 I was looking at bird sanctuaries.
02:41:01 It's actually under -- 14-176 for the entire area, and now
02:41:11 within the boundaries, hereby designated as a sanctuary, it
02:41:15 is unlawful for any person to hunt, maim, kill or trap in
02:41:19 any manner, attempt to kill, maim, trap or otherwise molest
02:41:24 any domestic bird, songbird, migratory bird, wild fowl,
02:41:29 water fowl, except birds or foul raised in captivity for
02:41:33 human consumption.
02:41:34 Now, the chickens that you keep are for the eggs.
02:41:37 We haven't really talked about you slaughter and eating
02:41:43 If they start to roam free, that's the issue, because we
02:41:46 don't require licensing or tagging of the birds.
02:41:49 That's the only issue.
02:41:50 >>LISA MONTELIONE: The other thing besides the accessory
02:41:56 structure issue for chicken coops was back on the language
02:41:59 about rescued animals being in here.
02:42:02 I would be in favor of keeping that language there.
02:42:04 Because then we have something on the books that includes
02:42:08 fosters and rescues, because we can always come back and
02:42:11 amend after the workshop.
02:42:12 But if we put it in here now --
02:42:16 >>CATHERINE COYLE: To clarify, the extra piece I gave you,
02:42:18 it turns out it's really for April.
02:42:22 I guess there's a workshop -- I thought the workshop --
02:42:29 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Well, let's see, at this time third
02:42:32 paragraph from the bottom.
02:42:34 It says under the definition of family, in the middle of the
02:42:38 paragraph, one family may keep up to six domestic companion
02:42:45 animals inclusive of any fostered rescued animals.
02:42:49 So that would mean you would be able to keep six fostered
02:42:52 animals on your property, whereas now we have a limit of
02:42:57 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Four total.
02:42:58 Whether they are fostered or not.
02:43:00 >> I think if we include this in the ordinance for the
02:43:06 chickens under the definition of family or nonhuman species
02:43:11 or whatever it's called in this ordinance, then we have it
02:43:13 built into the --
02:43:16 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The chickens are folded into animals.
02:43:18 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Then after the workshop if we want to
02:43:24 change it, it changes it but this puts it on the books now.
02:43:28 >>CATHERINE COYLE: And the kennel definition includes the
02:43:31 facilities that do foster rescued animals.
02:43:36 It kind of resolves the workshop issue, if it's a minor
02:43:40 But it's up to council.
02:43:41 >> That's what I'm saying, if it's in there now we can
02:43:44 always have the workshop and change it if we want to change
02:43:47 it if we find something needs to be changed.
02:43:49 But you think we would be ahead of the curve if we put it in
02:43:53 >>HARRY COHEN: Thank you.
02:43:56 Let me just make a brief statement about this issue since
02:43:59 everyone has had a chance to speak.
02:44:03 T.H.A.N. raised a number of concerns about this item.
02:44:06 And one of the things I think that is important to point out
02:44:11 is that at least from my expectation, I don't think we are
02:44:16 going to see a great big run on people going out and
02:44:20 purchasing chickens.
02:44:22 I think in this particular case we are dealing with people
02:44:25 that already have chickens, and they are technically in
02:44:30 violation of our city ordinances, and we are trying to bring
02:44:33 those ordinances up into more of -- more of a consistency
02:44:39 with what people are actually doing.
02:44:41 I know that -- and I think I speak for everyone up here --
02:44:44 that once we pass this, if we do pass it, you know, we will
02:44:49 monitor it, and see what's going on.
02:44:52 And if there are issues that come up that were unintended or
02:44:57 unanticipated, we have the ability to bring the item back
02:45:01 and to address those issues on a point by point basis.
02:45:06 So I just wanted to a sure people in the public that we are
02:45:11 not expecting there to be a massive stocking up of livestock
02:45:19 in the city.
02:45:20 Quite honestly, we are not expecting to see huge change in
02:45:23 what is already taking place right now.
02:45:29 So with that I'll go to a second round.
02:45:31 Mr. Suarez.
02:45:31 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I was just going to ask one quick question
02:45:34 since Mrs. Coyle brought something up talking about the
02:45:39 You made the statement that unless they are kept for
02:45:41 slaughter --
02:45:45 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Human consumption.
02:45:46 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Excuse me, slaughter, human consumption.
02:45:53 >> I said slaughter.
02:45:55 I did.
02:45:55 >>MIKE SUAREZ: That leaves open something within our own
02:45:59 code in terms of what people are actually doing with the
02:46:02 Again, if it's a bird sanctuary, meaning that we can't
02:46:06 disturb birds, and maybe somebody is raising them for
02:46:09 slaughter, okay, then they could be in violation, they may
02:46:16 have chickens out there roaming, but by accident they get
02:46:19 away, whatever, that you can't really do anything to them,
02:46:24 except if they are for slaughter.
02:46:29 Am I reading that right?
02:46:32 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The bird sanctuary itself does that, yes.
02:46:35 If you adopt a rule to keep chickens, it's yours, and if
02:46:39 your chicken gets out, you can go get your chicken.
02:46:42 That's the way I look at it.
02:46:44 And we would want you to as a responsible chicken owner to
02:46:46 get your chicken, not let it roam free.
02:46:50 The question we have on the code enforcement side if it's
02:46:53 running free and you as an owner don't claim it, what can we
02:46:56 do with that chicken?
02:46:58 We are at that point limited because it is just a
02:47:00 free-roaming bird, and we don't know, we can't determine
02:47:05 whether or not it was a pet or just a free roaming chicken
02:47:08 that happened to make its way into that neighborhood.
02:47:10 >> We don't tag chickens either.
02:47:15 >> That's what I was saying, we don't have a program to lie
02:47:18 license or tag chickens.
02:47:20 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I don't think we have.
02:47:22 And there are so many other things we can go into and
02:47:24 continue to talk about concerning this issue, which, by the
02:47:28 way, I get incredibly tired of, you know, I do think that
02:47:32 part of what you said concerning the county rules, part of
02:47:37 what you said in terms of what has happened in the past, I
02:47:41 am not supportive of this either.
02:47:43 I think the limit that you were talking about is that it can
02:47:47 only be a total of six, even if they have a 10,000 square
02:47:50 foot property line, correct?
02:47:55 >>CATHERINE COYLE: It's five for five.
02:47:57 >>MIKE SUAREZ: But a maximum, right?
02:47:59 So I can have a house in Gulf view that has a huge, huge
02:48:02 lot, and I can have lots of chickens, if I wanted to.
02:48:07 I'm just saying hypothetically.
02:48:09 >> You could, unless you all directed a maximum cap.
02:48:12 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Okay.
02:48:15 Thank you.
02:48:18 >>YVONNE CAPIN: The lots in Gulf view are not huge, huge,
02:48:22 And I happened to see a chicken coop.
02:48:27 It was pointed out to me in Gulf view.
02:48:30 I think the price that was quoted to me was $60,000.
02:48:40 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I bought my house for 81.
02:48:44 [ Laughter ]
02:48:48 If I could ask if council is -- I don't know how the vote is
02:48:52 going to go -- if you are inclined to move this to the
02:48:54 Planning Commission, just to clarify Councilwoman
02:48:57 Montelione's suggestion, is that we would be clarifying
02:48:59 accessory structure standards for the coops for setbacks
02:49:03 If we set a size cap for the structure and a height
02:49:07 limitation, what would you like that that to be?
02:49:12 No more than six feet wide?
02:49:15 >>LISA MONTELIONE: The height limitation I would look at is
02:49:18 less than what our standard fence would be so you are only
02:49:20 allowed a six foot fence in the City of Tampa so I would say
02:49:23 a maximum of six feet.
02:49:24 Because that way, you are restricted from building any
02:49:27 chicken coop that would be hypothetically visible, if you
02:49:32 also had a fence.
02:49:36 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Would you want a cap on the size?
02:49:39 >>LISA MONTELIONE: You know, I don't know that we could,
02:49:42 because some are just building chicken coops that have
02:49:45 individual little coops each for each bird, adding on little
02:49:52 porches, or run areas.
02:49:56 Size I'm okay with.
02:49:57 It's height that really would be a concern.
02:50:01 It couldn't be over six feet high.
02:50:02 But it could be as long as you want.
02:50:04 >>CATHERINE COYLE: We do aggregate our accessory structure
02:50:11 areas because you are allowed 15% of your minimum lot area
02:50:14 to be built in an accessory structure.
02:50:16 So if you have 5,000 square feet of land you are allotted
02:50:19 750 square foot accessory structure, but that's enclosed
02:50:24 A coop is actually open, potentially, unless they built one
02:50:28 of those $60,000 ones.
02:50:30 So it might actually not fall into the aggregated area.
02:50:34 There might be a loophole where it could be big.
02:50:38 So I just wanted to point that out.
02:50:40 >>LISA MONTELIONE: You have to get a permit for over 150
02:50:45 square feet?
02:50:48 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Typically for sheds and those types of
02:50:50 >>LISA MONTELIONE: 125.
02:50:54 That way, they don't have to go and build a building permit
02:50:58 for a chicken coop.
02:50:59 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Okay.
02:51:00 >>HARRY COHEN: Are there any other council members that
02:51:03 would like to speak before we have a vote on whether or not
02:51:05 to transmit this item to the Planning Commission?
02:51:09 I will entertain a motion to close out this item then.
02:51:12 >> So moved.
02:51:17 >>HARRY COHEN: Well, does the clerk need the motion stated?
02:51:20 Or just transmit the item.
02:51:23 I think the clerk needs the motion.
02:51:24 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I move to transmit the ordinance as
02:51:29 submitted by Cathy Coyle with changes we have discussed for
02:51:33 accessory structure setback and size limitations to be
02:51:40 transmitted to the Planning Commission.
02:51:43 >> Second.
02:51:45 >>HARRY COHEN: We have a motion from Councilwoman
02:51:46 Montelione, seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
02:51:49 All those in favor please indicate by saying aye.
02:51:52 Opposed? No.
02:51:58 Would you like a voice vote, madam clerk?
02:52:02 I believe it was 4 to 2.
02:52:03 >>MIKE SUAREZ: No.
02:52:06 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes.
02:52:07 >>FRANK REDDICK: No.
02:52:09 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
02:52:12 >>HARRY COHEN: Yes.
02:52:13 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Yes.
02:52:15 >>THE CLERK: Okay.
02:52:16 The motion passes 4 to 2 with Suarez and Reddick voting no
02:52:23 and Miranda being absent at vote.
02:52:25 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Thank you, council.
02:52:30 One more quick part B is pretty straightforward.
02:52:34 We simply would be asking you to transmit the animal
02:52:37 regulation changes to the Planning Commission inclusive of
02:52:42 the chicken changes that you have just done.
02:52:45 That way I have it combined.
02:52:47 And then if you do want to add in the references to the
02:52:50 rescue facilities, I can add that as well.
02:52:52 >>HARRY COHEN: Okay.
02:53:03 Mr. Suarez.
02:53:03 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I will be glad to transmit the kennels
02:53:10 >>HARRY COHEN: Okay.
02:53:12 We have a motion from Councilman Suarez, seconded by
02:53:16 Councilwoman Capin to transmit the animal regulations
02:53:21 itemized in part B.
02:53:22 Is there any discussion on that motion?
02:53:25 Seeing none, all those in favor, please indicate by saying
02:53:27 aye. Opposed?
02:53:29 >>THE CLERK: (off microphone)
02:53:39 Thank you.
02:53:40 We are going to move to the last item of the day which is
02:53:42 item number 44.
02:53:43 >>JULIA MANDELL: Legal department.
02:53:45 I'm sorry, I have no choice but to say rhetorically on the
02:53:49 record why did the chicken cross the road?
02:53:56 >>HARRY COHEN: To get to the Internet cafe.
02:53:59 [ Laughter ]
02:54:01 >>JULIA MANDELL: Exactly.
02:54:02 >> To get to the animal sanctuary.
02:54:09 >>JULIA MANDELL: Good afternoon.
02:54:11 I'm here to discuss the Internet cafe regulations.
02:54:14 I had handed out at our last discussion of this matter a
02:54:19 bullet point of the items that we need to determine as we go
02:54:23 through these regulations.
02:54:26 But just by way of history of how we got here because I
02:54:29 think it's been around for a little while, I appeared in
02:54:37 front of you in November in which we discussed items
02:54:41 regarding not just the Internet cafes but the simulated
02:54:44 gaming devices which are found in the Internet cafes.
02:54:47 Ford record, I want to make it clear there has been no
02:54:50 banning of an Internet cafe, nor I do understand there is to
02:54:55 be a discussion to regulating the cafes, that only the types
02:55:00 of devices which have a simulated gaming device associated
02:55:03 with that.
02:55:04 At that time, I presented City Council with three options.
02:55:07 One was not to change the regulations at all.
02:55:10 Two, a full ban of the regulation with Hillsborough County
02:55:13 and some other jurisdictions A have done.
02:55:15 And three, to move forward to regulate the Internet
02:55:21 sweepstakes games.
02:55:22 And I had brought Ford some regulations of the city of
02:55:27 Jacksonville to regulating these games.
02:55:30 I do want to point out for the record the city of
02:55:33 Jacksonville regulations have been upheld in court, and the
02:55:35 Hillsborough County litigation that was ongoing related to
02:55:39 the ban of the gaming devices has been dismissed.
02:55:44 So that pending litigation that was out there for those
02:55:47 jurisdictions is gone.
02:55:48 There is still, I understand, some litigation happening in
02:55:51 Hillsborough County, city of Longwood.
02:55:52 The only other thing from a housekeeping per he respective,
02:55:55 as I was to report back to you, is whether or not there
02:55:59 appears to be any activity at the state level relating to
02:56:02 the simulated gaming devices.
02:56:04 From everything I have seen and read, there is talk of doing
02:56:07 a moratorium at state level.
02:56:09 I have no idea if that will have any leg associated with it
02:56:13 or if that will occur.
02:56:14 But mostly what I'm seeing is that if the legislature
02:56:20 intends not to take up the matter specifically this session,
02:56:23 and intends to form a committee and have this issue come up
02:56:26 in the 2014 session.
02:56:28 So obviously that can change.
02:56:31 We haven't really gotten to the start of the session yet.
02:56:35 But that's what everything I have seen over the last few
02:56:38 months, is there will be nothing really happening this year,
02:56:42 and likely something happening next year.
02:56:44 So that's kind of a background of where we are.
02:56:47 And of course we did enact a temporary abatement 2006
02:56:50 temporary abatement will be completed, either the middle to
02:56:52 end of March on this matter while we continue to study it.
02:56:57 I had at the last meeting passed out to you really a bullet
02:57:02 point question of how we want to formulate the regulations,
02:57:06 because there was a lot of discussion about different things
02:57:10 that City Council may want to see in their regulations.
02:57:13 So I just thought it would be valuable to go through this
02:57:15 list, and get some ideas from City Council as to where they
02:57:19 intended to go with this regulation.
02:57:21 A lot of these questions are questions simply taken out of
02:57:25 things that they have done in the city of Jacksonville, but
02:57:28 there are some things, just that council raised some issues
02:57:31 that I wanted to spend some time on.
02:57:34 >>HARRY COHEN: Before you continue, I have a few council
02:57:37 members that have a few questions and want to ask some
02:57:40 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Before this gets into a long protracted
02:57:44 discussion I heard you say that Internet cafes are banned in
02:57:47 Hillsborough County.
02:57:47 >> The one with gaming devices.
02:57:50 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I'm sorry, the gaming devices.
02:57:54 And what we are here today to discuss is whether or not we
02:57:56 want to not ban them but regulate them?
02:57:59 >> That was the last motion of council.
02:58:03 >>LISA MONTELIONE: An obvious point comes to maned, if they
02:58:05 are banned in Hillsborough County but regulated within the
02:58:07 City of Tampa, anyone who is looking to operate sweet stakes
02:58:12 machines anywhere in the area is going to locate within the
02:58:15 City of Tampa.
02:58:17 >>JULIA MANDELL: Right now, if we go ahead and create a
02:58:21 business operating permit, process, for the simulated gaming
02:58:25 devices, certainly that would be the opportunity.
02:58:28 >>LISA MONTELIONE: My question, is there any benefit to us
02:58:34 to regulate rather than ban as a city?
02:58:41 Is there any financial benefit?
02:58:43 I mean, from the standpoint this is going to be a
02:58:46 money-making operation for the city, because they are going
02:58:49 to be able to charge a more expensive business operating
02:58:54 >>JULIA MANDELL: That issue has come up in previous
02:58:56 And as I stated, the city -- the only thing we could do is
02:59:05 to have a fee for processing and permit for inspection and
02:59:11 collect a fee that's associated with the cost of providing
02:59:14 that service, processing permits.
02:59:19 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Whatever fee we charge is pretty much a
02:59:22 wash because we have to expend the personnel, time, energy
02:59:26 and implementation, and policy manuals.
02:59:32 We cannot make money off the permit.
02:59:34 So before we get into a long protracted discussion I am
02:59:39 going to move that we ban sweepstakes machines from the City
02:59:42 of Tampa and be consistent with Hillsborough County, because
02:59:44 I don't want to see a proliferation of sweepstakes machines
02:59:49 located within the City of Tampa because they can't be
02:59:51 located in the county.
02:59:53 So rather than go through all of how to regulate it, if
03:00:00 there's no perceived advantage to us having them, we can't
03:00:03 make money off of permits or fees.
03:00:07 I don't see a benefit.
03:00:12 We have within the city limits already operating.
03:00:14 >> I did want to recommend if City Council wanted to go in
03:00:18 that direction, that any ordinance you had do not remove the
03:00:21 ones that are already legally permitted and operating.
03:00:24 >>LISA MONTELIONE: We have 13 currently in the City of
03:00:29 Tampa and there are eight of them are within my district.
03:00:34 Of the 13.
03:00:35 There's a couple in Mr. Reddick's district.
03:00:41 I really don't want to see any more of these.
03:00:44 And that's my personal opinion.
03:00:45 So I move that we be consistent with the surrounding county
03:00:48 and ban sweepstakes machines in the city limits.
03:00:53 >>HARRY COHEN: We have a motion and a second.
03:00:55 But we are going to have discussion on that motion.
03:00:57 And Mr. Suarez was next in line for discussion for both that
03:01:03 and the item on the table.
03:01:04 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Thank you, chair.
03:01:06 I appreciate the statements from Councilman Montelione,
03:01:11 because she's absolutely right, the problem we have is that
03:01:15 we already have those in place.
03:01:17 So what do we do with those?
03:01:19 They aren't going anywhere.
03:01:21 We cannot eliminate them.
03:01:22 We can only actually -- I mean, we can regulate what they do
03:01:27 or able to do.
03:01:28 We can have some permitting going forward, am I correct?
03:01:34 >>JULIA MANDELL: Going forward you could add permit
03:01:37 The ones that are already operating, we would have to
03:01:40 either -- have to be careful about back regulating those
03:01:44 businesses unless they move to a different location.
03:01:46 >> If we create a permit -- not a permit, but a description
03:01:55 in order to continue to operate these game devices within
03:01:58 the city, they are already in there, and we put together
03:02:00 some regulations concerning that?
03:02:03 >>JULIA MANDELL: We could require them to come in and be
03:02:05 permitted and meet certain requirements.
03:02:07 That is true.
03:02:08 But we couldn't put them in a position where say, for
03:02:12 example, we had part of our business regulations that you
03:02:15 have to have ten machines, or you had to be located within a
03:02:18 certain distance of another, location within W the machines,
03:02:22 and we couldn't use those as reasons to strip them of the
03:02:27 rights that continue to operate the business.
03:02:29 We could just make sure that they meet certain operational
03:02:32 >>MIKE SUAREZ: And in those operational requirements, can
03:02:37 we put not have more than X number of machines?
03:02:41 >>JULIA MANDELL: If they have got something right now would
03:02:43 I be very reluctant to take away what it is they have.
03:02:46 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Again this is all hypothetical.
03:02:51 >>JULIA MANDELL: When I think of operational requirements
03:02:53 I'm thinking more in line of making them provide us some
03:02:57 background information, maybe requiring them to have
03:03:00 security personnel, those kinds of things.
03:03:02 I'm not really talking about something that affects their
03:03:05 rights to do business in a manner that they are currently
03:03:07 doing business.
03:03:07 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Aren't regulations -- and again trying to do
03:03:12 this in a hypothetical way so we do not get in any kind of
03:03:16 legal problems here -- but whenever any kind of new business
03:03:19 comes through, we always have the right as a city to
03:03:22 regulate that particular business, regardless of what that
03:03:24 business is.
03:03:27 You know, regardless except for those things in which the
03:03:30 state has controlling interest, or the county or so on.
03:03:35 So I guess my question to you again is, we can't put
03:03:39 together regulations to regulate what they currently do and
03:03:42 still also have a ban that as these come in, correct?
03:03:49 We can accept the county's current ban on new entities
03:03:54 coming in.
03:03:55 We can't eliminate the ones that are already there.
03:03:57 So regulate the ones that are already there without the fear
03:04:01 of more coming in per se, correct?
03:04:04 >>JULIA MANDELL: I guess what I am hearing you saying, and
03:04:06 let me repeat it back to make sure I am answering the
03:04:09 question that you are asking me, is not withstanding what we
03:04:11 do going forward with any new businesses, ban them,
03:04:14 deregulate, et cetera, we have the opportunity to regulate
03:04:19 and put some operational requirements on the existing
03:04:22 Internet, sweepstakes machines and the Internet cafes that
03:04:27 currently exist.
03:04:29 I believe that we can put a certain level of regulation on
03:04:31 those existing businesses so long as the intent of that
03:04:35 regulation isn't to put them out of business, meaning we
03:04:38 require them to do something that they can't continue to
03:04:45 So I think security, I think with certain requirements that
03:04:51 they come and get a permit from us, that they have to renew
03:04:55 their permit every year, that they provide us with certain
03:04:58 information, those types of things.
03:04:59 I think if -- we just need to think about whether or not
03:05:03 those regulations would have the effect of basically putting
03:05:07 them out of business.
03:05:08 And that's where the rub is.
03:05:09 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Again I don't want to belabor the point.
03:05:12 The only thing I'm saying is that we can do both.
03:05:15 We can regulate, and at the same time accept the county ban
03:05:21 on any new Internet cafes.
03:05:23 >>JULIA MANDELL: You can ban the Internet cafes moving
03:05:28 We can put regulations on the ones in existence.
03:05:30 >>MIKE SUAREZ: That was my point.
03:05:34 Ms. Montelione's point is well taken by me, which is we
03:05:37 don't want to create something where people start setting up
03:05:42 more and more of these Internet cafes.
03:05:44 At the same time, since we can't make it a rule that
03:05:50 eliminates them, we can regulate them, and at the same time
03:05:56 accept the county's rules on any new Internet cafes going
03:06:00 So I just wanted to get the clarification.
03:06:02 Because it's not that we do not have any power to regulate
03:06:07 certain aspects of their business operations, as we do with
03:06:10 every business operation that is in the City of Tampa,
03:06:14 regardless of when they get zoned in or when -- there are
03:06:17 certain things that we still can change rules on and make
03:06:21 them, you know, accountable for.
03:06:23 So I just want to clarify that.
03:06:25 Because I do agree with Ms. Montelione that we accept what
03:06:28 the county has said, and that mechanism, I guess wee we can
03:06:33 have an ordinance that essentially mirrors it or just leaves
03:06:37 it as is.
03:06:37 >>JULIA MANDELL: I will tell you the county's regulation as
03:06:41 it relates to the sweepstakes games was not a countywide
03:06:44 It was only adopted to be enforced within the unincorporated
03:06:50 parts -- we would actually need to adopt something.
03:06:54 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Yes, so we could adopt an ordinance in line
03:06:57 with what the county has, and now goes into our
03:07:02 jurisdiction, and in order to we can then go ahead and start
03:07:05 to think about those things that we can do to regulate those
03:07:08 that already exist to make sure that they follow certain
03:07:12 guidelines that we accept.
03:07:16 >>JULIA MANDELL: Absolutely.
03:07:17 I think that would be appropriate, if that's what council's
03:07:19 policy decision is, I think that's legally sustainable.
03:07:23 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilwoman Capin?
03:07:28 >>MIKE SUAREZ: And maybe we can get some clarification.
03:07:30 I don't think I am actually adding anything to the motion.
03:07:33 I think that I am accepting her motion.
03:07:34 I just wanted to clarify on the other aspect of it because I
03:07:38 think that's a separate issue that we would have to deal
03:07:41 >>HARRY COHEN: We are going to go now to Councilwoman
03:07:51 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Yes, the 13 that are in the City of Tampa
03:07:53 are all in my district because I am city-wide.
03:08:00 Way want to say, you said that the Jacksonville ordinance
03:08:02 was upheld.
03:08:04 And that's a limit of 20, correct?
03:08:07 So why reinvent the wheel?
03:08:10 Why not look at that ordinance?
03:08:12 We are going to pass an ordinance that bans, and then we are
03:08:16 going to come back and regulate the ones that are there.
03:08:20 Regulate the seven that are coming up.
03:08:22 It's 20 in the whole city.
03:08:27 That's where my thought is, that they have helped
03:08:32 Jacksonville, and Jacksonville is huge.
03:08:34 It is almost the whole county area.
03:08:38 >>HARRY COHEN: It is the whole county.
03:08:41 >>YVONNE CAPIN: It is the whole county.
03:08:42 So in that county it is 20.
03:08:44 We are looking at 13, that Jacksonville was head up.
03:08:52 Now you are going to ban all of it and just leave the 13.
03:08:57 But if you are going to start regulating, we may want to
03:08:59 look at what Jacksonville did, which was upheld.
03:09:03 >>JULIA MANDELL: Let me just say, so we understand what we
03:09:08 are talking about.
03:09:09 I don't know because the motion of council was to look at
03:09:12 the Jacksonville regulations.
03:09:14 I don't know what Jacksonville did with the existing
03:09:17 If you were going to have an ordinance which limited the
03:09:19 number of permits that you were going to grant, I would have
03:09:22 advised you not to include the 13 that already have the
03:09:27 If you have a total number that you are going to allow, the
03:09:31 13, I was also going to suggest to you is that you might
03:09:33 want to put some provisions in which say those 13 still have
03:09:37 to get a permit, and those 13 can't move locations without
03:09:41 being in compliance with our regulations in terms of the
03:09:44 numbers, but as would be very cognizant of the idea that you
03:09:50 have certain rights that have already accumulated, and I
03:09:54 would want towns very careful about that.
03:10:00 >>YVONNE CAPIN: If we are going to do seven or whatever it
03:10:02 >>JULIA MANDELL: Whatever council thinks are appropriate.
03:10:06 The 20 were upheld.
03:10:10 Jacksonville and Duval county are kind of odd, because they
03:10:12 have a Jacksonville regulation and a Duval county
03:10:15 So I wasn't 100% sure looking at it at how it is with their
03:10:22 jurisdiction, but I did look up the population within that
03:10:26 combined area.
03:10:27 They would have something like 800,000 people within that
03:10:31 combined jurisdiction.
03:10:33 And we have about 350 within the City of Tampa.
03:10:36 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilwoman Mulhern.
03:10:42 >>MARY MULHERN: I was just thinking maybe look at the
03:10:46 Jacksonville regulations, and if it would work to apply them
03:10:50 to our existing ones.
03:10:53 But I would want to like say we are going to allow so many
03:10:57 I would rather just, as Councilwoman Montelione suggested,
03:11:01 just limit it to what we have now, figure out how to
03:11:04 regulate them, and what we can do --
03:11:11 >>JULIA MANDELL: The question that I would want to
03:11:13 understand with that is you have 13 in existence F those
03:11:18 become nonconform, in those locations, do you want to have
03:11:24 as one goes out of business that they no longer have the
03:11:27 right to operate?
03:11:30 Over time you would actually not necessarily keep the 13.
03:11:36 Or do you want to give them a permit in which we actually
03:11:38 give them continuing rights to have that operational aspect
03:11:43 to it?
03:11:44 So you sort of need to look at them a little differently
03:11:47 than just the pure regulation.
03:11:48 What you are really doing is putting in place -- since you
03:11:53 are in existence here is your operational standard, but once
03:11:57 you are gone, that's it.
03:11:58 >>MARY MULHERN: Did Hillsborough County just recently do
03:12:02 their ban?
03:12:03 >>JULIA MANDELL: They did it, I believe --
03:12:06 >>MARY MULHERN: What did they do?
03:12:07 They couldn't put people out of business.
03:12:10 >>JULIA MANDELL: In December 2011 they put the ban.
03:12:14 We can go back and revisit that.
03:12:18 >>MARY MULHERN: We are going to be -- if we are going to be
03:12:21 in the same position as them, we are going to have to figure
03:12:24 out a way to regulate and what to do, look at what they did.
03:12:28 But I don't see why we couldn't have just the permit goes
03:12:33 with the existing business.
03:12:34 >> I would have to go back and check with them.
03:12:38 I do recall with the pain management clinic, they also want
03:12:42 went the direction with the ban where the city did not go
03:12:45 the direction of the ban with the pain management.
03:12:47 They did provide certain operational standards for the
03:12:50 existing pain management clinics and say you have a certain
03:12:53 A.of time to come in, receive a permit, and once you receive
03:12:56 the permit you have to operate in a manner consistent with
03:13:00 the permit, and bring the permit back once a year, and over
03:13:03 time would you no longer, if you would no longer be able to
03:13:10 operate, and it's almost kind of an amortization period.
03:13:16 I don't have a vivid recollection of what they did with that
03:13:21 issue, and moving forward to give them regulations.
03:13:25 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilwoman Montelione.
03:13:28 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Thank you.
03:13:34 When did it expire?
03:13:36 >>JULIA MANDELL: I think mid March.
03:13:39 >>LISA MONTELIONE: So we would need to enact this prior to
03:13:44 mid March?
03:13:45 >>JULIA MANDELL: I would make the recommendation if this is
03:13:47 the direction council wants to go to direct me to bring back
03:13:49 an ordinance at the next meeting with the ban, that
03:13:52 recognizes that there will be regulations from the --
03:13:58 >>LISA MONTELIONE: And from the previous discussions, a
03:14:00 couple of thoughts.
03:14:01 Yes, as I think Councilwoman Mulhern said, sunset it, if you
03:14:06 are an existing business.
03:14:09 Right now, you cease operations, so we would need to put
03:14:15 cease operation language in there, you cease operation for
03:14:18 30 days, you lose the opportunity to reestablish your
03:14:21 business, either in the same location or in other location.
03:14:23 >>MIKE SUAREZ: Point of order.
03:14:27 I apologize for interrupting.
03:14:33 I think what we should do is move forward with the ban part
03:14:37 first and then we can get into the regulatory aspect of it.
03:14:40 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Can we do this all as part of the motion
03:14:45 for the ban, is that we are banning the application of new
03:14:51 establishments, and regulating those that are currently in
03:14:56 >>JULIA MANDELL: At a minimum I'm comfortable that we
03:15:00 should bring forward the ban in the next few weeks.
03:15:03 I think we -- we go ahead on the regulatory side of it
03:15:09 because we would be recognizing much the way you did in the
03:15:12 temporary abatement --
03:15:20 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Two weeks?
03:15:23 The middle of March.
03:15:24 >>JULIA MANDELL: Two weeks would be March -- I'm
03:15:31 And it will be on first reading and it would go ahead and
03:15:34 I'll make sure that --
03:15:40 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I'll restate my motion for the clerk,
03:15:44 that legal department bring forward an ordinance banning
03:15:48 Internet sweepstakes machines and businesses that solely
03:15:54 operate for the purpose of having a sweepstakes Internet
03:16:00 machine type business by 10:00 under staff reports on March
03:16:07 >>HARRY COHEN: Do I hear a second?
03:16:14 I'm sorry, I apologize, it's already been seconded by
03:16:17 Councilwoman Mulhern.
03:16:18 >>JULIA MANDELL: One additional thing for the purposes of
03:16:22 the record.
03:16:23 I understand City Council's intent that would bring it
03:16:27 father to permanent moratoria or permanent ban on the
03:16:32 sweepstakes Internet game machines, the ordinance doctrine
03:16:37 would go into effect as of today, and that way, if there is
03:16:40 any argument from anybody down the line, that it is
03:16:43 council's intent to move forward with the ban.
03:16:46 And --
03:16:48 >>LISA MONTELIONE: For the purposes of the record so it is
03:16:50 >>HARRY COHEN: Mr. Shelby.
03:16:53 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry to interrupt but I have a
03:16:56 question or clarification on the motion.
03:16:57 You made reference to the Internet sweepstakes machines, and
03:17:01 you made reference to businesses that solely just did that.
03:17:05 And I'm wondering if that -- is that different from what the
03:17:09 county ordinance is, or is that consistent?
03:17:11 >>LISA MONTELIONE: I would leave that to Ms. Mandell on a
03:17:16 >>JULIA MANDELL: The way our temporary abatement was
03:17:19 drafted -- and it was drafted utilizing some of the same
03:17:23 language as the county's permanent ban, is what you are
03:17:26 banning is not the operation of an Internet cafe or any
03:17:32 operation which allows people to come and go onto an
03:17:36 Internet in a public place and utilize the Internet.
03:17:39 It is simply banning and abating the opportunities to do a
03:17:45 simulated gaming device within those operations.
03:17:50 So it's not banning a particular business model, just
03:17:54 banning certain operational aspects of the business which
03:17:57 includes the simulated gaming devices.
03:17:59 And the definition of utilizes within our temporary
03:18:02 abatement is one that was upheld in court as well as the one
03:18:08 used by Hillsborough County and the city of Jacksonville.
03:18:09 >>HARRY COHEN: With that we have a motion on the floor from
03:18:12 Councilwoman Montelione, seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
03:18:16 All those in favor please indicate by voting aye.
03:18:20 Opposed? Okay.
03:18:22 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Now I would like to make another motion
03:18:27 which is the second half as Mr. Suarez pointed out, that the
03:18:33 13 businesses, which may have changed between two days ago
03:18:37 when I got this list, so we have to get an updated list --
03:18:41 this isn't part of the motion, this is just a point of fact,
03:18:44 madam clerk -- whatever businesses operate today, based on
03:18:52 their paid business tax to our business tax division would
03:19:00 be regulated.
03:19:03 Because I think one or two of them may not have paid their
03:19:06 business tax regulation.
03:19:07 So that's a fine point.
03:19:12 That those businesses be regulated and include the
03:19:21 prohibition on the consumption of alcohol on premises.
03:19:33 >>JULIA MANDELL: Point of clarification.
03:19:35 I know that with the permission of this City Council --
03:19:41 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Whatever is current as of today because
03:19:43 my list is a couple of days old.
03:19:46 That those as Ms. Mulhern suggested would sunset.
03:19:51 So once they cease operations for 30 days, they would no
03:19:56 longer be able to operate within the city limits of the City
03:19:58 of Tampa.
03:20:00 If they move locations, they would no longer be able to
03:20:04 operate within the City of Tampa. So I'm making this
03:20:14 And I think that covers what I am included in adding.
03:20:28 Ms. Mandell, you are coming back on the 7th.
03:20:30 Would you be comfortable with those regulations on the
03:20:32 7th as well?
03:20:34 >>JULIA MANDELL: I'm comfortable bringing back what you
03:20:37 just outlined to me, and if City Council wants to add
03:20:40 something additional we can add that between first and
03:20:42 second reading.
03:20:42 >> So March 7th, 10 a.m.
03:20:48 >> Second.
03:20:49 >>HARRY COHEN: We have a motion from Councilwoman
03:20:52 Montelione, seconded by Councilman Suarez.
03:20:54 Any discussion on the motion?
03:20:56 Seeing none --
03:20:58 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Wait.
03:20:59 Limiting the number of machines.
03:21:00 >>HARRY COHEN: I will ask you to restate the motion so he
03:21:04 can second it and the clerk make sure that they know they
03:21:07 have the complete motion as stated.
03:21:09 >>LISA MONTELIONE: Okay.
03:21:11 Regulating the existing businesses who are operating under
03:21:16 the definition of Internet sweepstakes machine
03:21:21 establishments, prohibiting the sale and consumption on sale
03:21:28 of alcohol with the exception of the ones that are currently
03:21:30 licensed and received a special use permit to serve alcohol,
03:21:37 to consumption on premises, to sunset those currently in
03:21:41 operation with a 30-day cease of operations stipulation,
03:21:48 which includes changing locations, and that includes
03:21:56 limiting the number of machines to the ones that they
03:22:00 currently have as of today
03:22:12 That's the motion.
03:22:13 >> Second.
03:22:13 >>HARRY COHEN: We have a motion from Councilwoman
03:22:16 Montelione, seconded by Councilman Suarez.
03:22:18 All those in favor please indicate by saying aye.
03:22:22 Opposed? Okay.
03:22:25 Thank you very much. We'll see you on the 7th.
03:22:28 All right.
03:22:29 We are going to move on now to information reports and new
03:22:34 business by council members.
03:22:35 We will go from left to right.
03:22:36 Councilwoman Montelione.
03:22:38 >>LISA MONTELIONE: No new business, sir.
03:22:44 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
03:22:45 I have three items.
03:22:48 One, I would like to invite Nanette O'Hara from the Tampa
03:22:53 Bay estuary program to come before council on March 28th
03:22:56 at 9 a.m. to give a five-minute presentation on the Tampa
03:23:01 Bay estuary program Floridian public awareness campaign.
03:23:06 Additionally, I ask that this be placed as the first item on
03:23:09 the agenda following the presentation of commendations.
03:23:12 >>HARRY COHEN: We have a motion from Councilwoman Mulhern.
03:23:16 Seconded by Councilwoman Montelione.
03:23:18 All those in favor please indicate by saying aye.
03:23:21 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to make a motion for
03:23:25 commendation to be presented recognizing the 17th annual
03:23:31 City of Tampa women's history month celebration planning
03:23:35 committee at the March 7th council meeting.
03:23:37 >> Second.
03:23:40 >>HARRY COHEN: Seconded by Councilwoman Montelione.
03:23:42 All those in favor please indicate by saying aye.
03:23:49 >>MARY MULHERN: And unless someone else has done this when
03:23:51 I wasn't here, I would like to present a commendation to
03:23:55 success for kids and families for their 20th March
03:24:00 madness basketball event to be presented at their ceremony
03:24:06 on March 8th.
03:24:07 >>HARRY COHEN: A motion from Councilwoman Montelione,
03:24:10 seconded by council -- Mulhern, seconded by Councilwoman
03:24:16 All those in favor indicate by saying aye.
03:24:18 Opposed? Okay.
03:24:21 Councilman Reddick.
03:24:22 >>FRANK REDDICK: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
03:24:26 First, I would like to send our condolences out to the
03:24:38 Johnson family.
03:24:40 He served for years as president of the Grant Park
03:24:43 neighborhood association and passed away this past weekend.
03:24:47 I just want to send condolences from the council to the
03:24:53 Also, the ladies at Delta Sigma Theta sorority requested to
03:25:02 attend the workshop for the annual Delta day at City Hall,
03:25:08 and they are requesting five minutes to speak to the council
03:25:14 about their programs, and they get a chance to meet with the
03:25:17 mayor and other people, and this is an annual event.
03:25:22 And they requested to be on the 28th and just five
03:25:28 minutes of time for the program.
03:25:29 >> Second.
03:25:31 >>HARRY COHEN: We have a motion from Councilman Reddick,
03:25:34 seconded by Councilman Capin.
03:25:35 And that will be at 9 a.m. on the 28th.
03:25:37 All those in favor please indicated by saying aye.
03:25:41 >>FRANK REDDICK: And the last item I have is that on our
03:25:45 workshop on the 28th, we have two people that will be
03:25:49 making -- speaking for the group in a workshop,
03:25:55 representative from the Department of Transportation, and
03:25:59 the MPO.
03:26:00 And they have a five-minute time limit.
03:26:04 So two people.
03:26:04 So they are requesting an additional five minutes.
03:26:08 And they actually made that request.
03:26:11 >>HARRY COHEN: We have a motion from Councilman Reddick,
03:26:14 seconded by Councilwoman Montelione for an additional five
03:26:17 minutes on our 9 a.m. item on the workshop session of the
03:26:20 28th regarding pedestrian safety on Busch Boulevard.
03:26:24 All those in favor please indicate by saying aye.
03:26:26 Opposed? Okay.
03:26:29 Councilwoman Mulhern asked me to circle back to her for a
03:26:34 She had one more item.
03:26:34 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
03:26:39 I'm sorry.
03:26:39 You reminded me when you asked for that, that we send
03:26:46 I would like to ask that council send condolences to Steven
03:26:49 Gay and the family of Charlie Honchle who died suddenly this
03:26:55 weekend of a heart attack.
03:26:57 He was a great contributor to this community, served on so
03:27:02 many different boards, did so many great things, and he
03:27:06 served with Councilwoman Capin on the board of the spring,
03:27:13 he quality Florida, and I wanted to make sure we remembered
03:27:18 him and his family.
03:27:20 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilwoman Capin.
03:27:22 >>MIKE SUAREZ: A special note to thank everyone.
03:27:30 And I'm doing this on behalf of Mr. Cohen and Mr. Miranda.
03:27:33 I would like a motion to ratify, confirm the presentation of
03:27:37 commendation to Ron Hytoff who is retiring from Tampa
03:27:42 General Hospital.
03:27:43 >> We have.
03:27:44 >>HARRY COHEN: Seconded by Councilwoman Montelione.
03:27:47 All those in favor please indicate by saying aye.
03:27:50 >>MIKE SUAREZ: I have one other.
03:27:51 I would like to make a motion to present a commendation to
03:27:54 Ralph Kelly as code enforcement Hispanic liaison inspector.
03:28:00 Mr. Kelly is retiring on March 8th and we would like to
03:28:03 present him with a commendation at our March 7th, 2013
03:28:07 meeting, at 9:00 a.m.
03:28:09 And if we can make that first under ceremonial, that would
03:28:13 be great for him to be able to celebrate the next-to-last,
03:28:18 penultimate day of his retirement.
03:28:20 >>HARRY COHEN: We have a motion from Councilman Suarez,
03:28:22 seconded by councilwoman Montelione.
03:28:25 All those in favor? Opposed? Okay.
03:28:28 Councilwoman Capin.
03:28:30 >>YVONNE CAPIN: All right, thank you.
03:28:33 Tomorrow, February 22, will be a year that we initiated the
03:28:40 domestic partner to be brought forth.
03:28:45 I have invited miles Capin Beon to join us, the one making
03:28:51 all the noises at the podium.
03:28:57 It was the birth a year ago that was my inspiration to bring
03:29:01 forth the motion.
03:29:02 As I said then, it was a way to say welcome to our world,
03:29:06 I want him and all the children of Tampa to grow up in a
03:29:10 city that is diverse, accepting of others and protective of
03:29:14 their rights in an economically prosperous city.
03:29:18 You see my motive is selfish.
03:29:22 It is a tool to copy our future generations here in Tampa.
03:29:25 The domestic partner registry ordinance passed by unanimous
03:29:30 vote of City Council.
03:29:31 The first city on Florida's west coast to do so.
03:29:34 This program is successful and has been very well received.
03:29:38 However, four members of the county commission chose to
03:29:47 misrepresent the meaning and spirit of this ordinance.
03:29:49 So let's set the record straight.
03:29:50 This is not a gay rights ordinance.
03:29:52 It is not -- it is a human rights ordinance.
03:29:55 This ordinance applies to gay and remember couples, hetero
03:30:01 sexual couples, senior couples that only wish to pool their
03:30:04 resources for a better life as they care for each other.
03:30:07 Domestic partner registry that we offer is $30.
03:30:11 That would cost our citizens hundreds of dollars to do
03:30:14 online and thousands for private attorneys.
03:30:18 The economic factors implied in this ordinance are of equal
03:30:23 Ironically, on the very same day that the county commission
03:30:26 rejected the domestic registry ordinance, an article by
03:30:32 Robert Turett appeared in the "Tampa Bay Times."
03:30:37 Of the 26.5 billion dollars, 26.5 billion dollars, of
03:30:43 venture capital invested in the United States in 2012,
03:30:46 Hillsborough County's share was zero.
03:30:49 Not one dollar, not one penny, NADA, zilch came our way.
03:30:55 Without question, the City of Tampa is the economic engine
03:30:59 of Hillsborough County, the City of Tampa is the county
03:31:01 seat, economic center of Hillsborough County.
03:31:04 We added more jobs in 2012 than any other city in all of
03:31:09 Economic and statistical studies clearly demonstrate that
03:31:13 diversity brings economic progress, and history backs this
03:31:18 Two examples clearly demonstrate the negative effects of
03:31:21 shunning diversity, both in the 15th century.
03:31:25 One was Spain when the Muslims and the Jews were expelled,
03:31:29 and the other was China when it isolated itself by closing
03:31:33 doors to foreigners.
03:31:34 At the time, both were military powers centers of learning
03:31:38 with thriving economies, but because they refused to accept
03:31:41 any new and diverse ideas, their social structure decayed.
03:31:46 Let's not make the same mistake in Hillsborough County.
03:31:49 Let's ignore the unsolicited advice of the self-appointed
03:31:58 morality police.
03:31:59 Open the door to all citizens.
03:32:01 Let us all celebrate and embrace our diversity.
03:32:06 Please don't split the community in half.
03:32:08 And we expect and promote our diversity and the creativity
03:32:11 that comes with it, our reward will be a more livable,
03:32:16 thriving and prosperous community.
03:32:18 I am requesting a dialogue, and that we as council publicly
03:32:24 express these sentiments to our colleagues at the
03:32:26 Hillsborough County commission.
03:32:28 I request that we as council urge the county commission to
03:32:32 bring this ordinance back and reconsider their earlier
03:32:36 I request that we as council urge the county commission to
03:32:40 reconsider -- I'm repeating this -- and create a countywide
03:32:45 domestic partner registry on the first anniversary, which is
03:32:49 April 6th, this council's vote to have domestic partner
03:32:54 I would like to -- I missed a part.
03:32:57 I would like that to be in the resolution that we ask our
03:33:08 >> (off microphone).
03:33:20 >>MARY MULHERN: And I think the letter should be what you
03:33:22 just read.
03:33:23 It was excellent.
03:33:25 >>HARRY COHEN: We have a motion from Councilwoman Capin,
03:33:29 seconded by Councilwoman Mulhern.
03:33:31 All those in favor please indicate by saying aye.
03:33:43 Did we have a date to bring that back?
03:33:47 Why don't we bring that back at our next meeting on March
03:33:52 >>YVONNE CAPIN: Next meeting March 7th under staff
03:33:53 reports. Thank you very much.
03:33:55 Thank you, Miles, for showing up.
03:33:57 I think he's liking the council dais.
03:34:00 >>HARRY COHEN: Before we close --
03:34:11 >> (off microphone).
03:34:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is that part of the motion?
03:34:16 >>HARRY COHEN: I think it was implied in the motion.
03:34:19 Thanks for clarifying that.
03:34:26 >> (off microphone).
03:34:28 >>HARRY COHEN: Before we adjourn, is there anyone from the
03:34:31 public that wishes to address council on any item?
03:34:39 Go ahead.
03:34:51 >> My name is Lori Leigh. I am an attorney from
03:34:52 Jacksonville but involved in the ordinance that you were
03:34:52 discussing earlier.
03:34:52 I don't have any clients that want to move into the city,
03:34:54 I just wanted to come.
03:34:55 I apologize for not contacting your office, Mr. Shelby. At
03:34:57 the last minute I was in the area, and I did want to come
03:35:02 and provide a little experience and some background
03:35:04 information if you were interested in the Jacksonville
03:35:08 I was trying to get the numbers that she was looking for
03:35:15 Jacksonville at the time the ordinance came about had
03:35:17 approximately 160 to 170 locations that offered Internet
03:35:21 sweepstakes machines.
03:35:23 And the council came wanting to do something about it.
03:35:27 And wanted to limit the number as you all are discussing as
03:35:31 and through legal research with the counsel in Brevard
03:35:37 county it was determined that a permanent moratorium was not
03:35:41 a legal way of going about what they wanted.
03:35:45 They wanted to stop increasing the numbers of Internet
03:35:48 cafes, not reduce the number. So after a lot of legal
03:35:51 research, it was determined that a permanent moratorium
03:35:57 wasn't a viable option legally so what they did was chose a
03:36:02 number of permits which was 20, and this was an arbitrary
03:36:05 number that they discussed that was related to alcohol and
03:36:08 beverage licenses, as it relates to the ratio of the
03:36:11 And so 20 was the number that they calm up with.
03:36:14 So through attrition they wanted the permits to get down to
03:36:16 that amount.
03:36:17 And with the existing locations, they did a list of
03:36:23 regulations, and pretty strict regulations.
03:36:25 I have a coast ordinance here.
03:36:27 But many of them, if not every single one of them, are the
03:36:30 ones that you have talked about today, and then some.
03:36:33 And so what happened was the locations in Jacksonville could
03:36:39 not meet those restrictive requirements so many of them
03:36:42 closed their doors.
03:36:43 Today Jacksonville has 42 permits.
03:36:45 And what they did was they said on this date if you were
03:36:48 operating and you could comply with these strict
03:36:50 regulations, you can get an initial permit.
03:36:53 But we are not going to let one new Internet cafe open until
03:36:56 that permit number gets down to 19.
03:37:00 So I don't know how long that's going to take.
03:37:02 Decades, if it happens at all.
03:37:04 But today, there are now, I believe, 43 active permits in
03:37:10 Those locations now have some requirements.
03:37:14 They are not allowed to have any kind of gambling related
03:37:18 signage out front, their 7-7-7, no Las Vegas style slot,
03:37:22 they have security guards, cash management measures, there's
03:37:26 all kinds of regulations that they have to abide by.
03:37:29 And I recently read a white paper where the city of
03:37:33 Jacksonville was quoted as saying it had a very positive
03:37:37 effect on their community.
03:37:38 I wasn't involved.
03:37:41 I helped draft the ordinance.
03:37:43 So I just wanted to make myself available while I was there
03:37:46 to offer any information you may need.
03:37:48 >>HARRY COHEN: Councilwoman Mulhern.
03:37:50 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
03:37:52 That's great.
03:37:53 Did you get a chance to talk to Ms. Mandell?
03:37:57 >> I did not.
03:37:58 I tried to catch her at lunch time.
03:38:00 Then I tried to get back early.
03:38:01 I'm not familiar with Tampa so I didn't get back in time.
03:38:06 >>MARY MULHERN: It's interesting what you just said because
03:38:09 you said that number, you are reducing it, and so that will
03:38:14 always be the limit, 20 permits allowed, no matter who comes
03:38:18 looking for them.
03:38:19 >> Right.
03:38:22 >>MARY MULHERN: That's another wrinkle that we didn't
03:38:27 We were talking about having a sunset.
03:38:29 >> Right.
03:38:30 And the reason they did that, they researched, and they
03:38:35 researched the legalities, tying it to a location-specific,
03:38:40 like you sometimes do with a nonconforming use designation.
03:38:44 You can have nonconforming use here but you can't move to
03:38:46 the a different location, keep that nonconforming use.
03:38:49 It was a little different with business licenses.
03:38:52 And I confess I am not intimately knowledgeable about that
03:38:55 type of law.
03:38:56 But it came out that it was somewhat concerning to them to
03:39:01 limit people from moving location to location.
03:39:06 Now, then -- ownership changes are a different story.
03:39:09 But moving the address was something that they allowed
03:39:12 The ownership changes they restricted those.
03:39:16 So it was the same business, if they wanted to move, you
03:39:19 know, to down the street, they had to actually comply with
03:39:25 the zoning regulations they put into the ordinance.
03:39:29 So they said you have to be 750 feet from a church, school
03:39:33 or military installation.
03:39:34 If I am a nonconform use, and I want to move down the
03:39:37 street, I would have to comply with those new zoning
03:39:41 So anytime somebody moves they have to comply with a new
03:39:44 rule, but they couldn't zone them into something where they
03:39:47 had to stay permanently.
03:39:50 There was another issue that I think you all brought up and
03:39:54 I'm drawing a blank right now.
03:39:55 >>HARRY COHEN: Actually, we are out of time.
03:39:58 But Ms. Mandell did come back in.
03:40:00 So I'm sure she would be happy to talk to you about some of
03:40:03 the other items so that we can incorporate them into our
03:40:06 further discussion on March 7th. Thank you.
03:40:11 Mr. LaBour.
03:40:12 >> Steve LaBour, 5105 west Azeele street.
03:40:17 I want to say on behalf of T.H.A.N., thank you for
03:40:19 continuing the rooming house and the chicken issue today so
03:40:23 that we could take a full look at what was being proposed.
03:40:27 And I also want to put on the record that Ms. Coyle has been
03:40:30 very accessible, and we have a very positive working
03:40:35 relationship with her as we work through these issues.
03:40:38 Lastly, I do know the answer as to why the chicken crossed
03:40:41 the road.
03:40:41 The chicken lived in the county where it was illegal so she
03:40:44 crossed the road so she could live happily every after in
03:40:48 the City of Tampa.
03:40:49 >>HARRY COHEN: Well, on that note, I have a motion to
03:40:52 receive and file, please?
03:40:54 We have a motion from Councilwoman Montelione, seconded by
03:40:57 Councilman Suarez.
03:40:59 All those in favor please indicate by saying aye.
03:41:02 Thank you very much.
03:41:03 We are adjourned.
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