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Tampa City Council
Thursday, October 27, 2005
9:00 a.m. session

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09:04:27
[Sounding gavel] 09:10:06
>>GWEN MILLER: Tampa City Council is called to order. 09:10:07
The chair will yield to Ms. Rose Ferlita. 09:10:08
>>ROSE FERLITA: We have been working together for 09:10:16
almost eight years. 09:10:17
Ferlita. 09:10:19
Try to pronounce it in Spanish. 09:10:26
Would you like to join me? 09:10:28

It's a friendly argument. 09:10:33
Madam Chairman, good morning. 09:10:34
Colleagues, good morning. 09:10:36
Ladies and gentlemen, good morning as well. 09:10:38
It is my pleasure this morning to introduce my guest. 09:10:39
And I'm happy that he's agreed to be here. 09:10:42
In August of this year the Reverend Cannon Dennis Kezar 09:10:45
became the new rector at St. Mary's Episcopal church 09:10:49
and day school. 09:10:52
He was recently retired from Christ Episcopal church in 09:10:53
Bradenton where he was the rector for 25 years. 09:10:56
St. Mary's had been in a 3 year transitional period 09:11:00
while searching for a new rector. 09:11:04
The Bishop of the Diocese of Southwest Florida asked 09:11:06
Father Kezar to come to Tampa to ignite church growth 09:11:10
and help the forward progress of the church and the 09:11:14
school. 09:11:16
Father Kezar is married to the former Sandra Wall 09:11:17
Knight, a Tampa native, and they have six children. 09:11:22
We are extremely pleased to have him as a new resident 09:11:24
of Tampa and a visitor here with us today. 09:11:27
I had an opportunity to visit with him in my office and 09:11:30
he's a neat, neat, neat individual and it was a 09:11:33
pleasure to get to know you very quickly, father. 09:11:35
If everyone will please stand and join the father in 09:11:38

invocation and remain standing for the pledge of 09:11:42
allegiance. 09:11:44
Father, I know you are going to pray for the city but I 09:11:45
want to interject we have one of our state 09:11:48
representatives here Sandra Murman so I think we 09:11:50
probably need to pray for them as well. 09:11:52
>>> Yes, be glad to. 09:11:55
Thank you. 09:11:56
Let us pray. 09:11:57
Almighty God, who has given us this good land for our 09:11:59
heritage, we humbly beseech Thee that we may always 09:12:03
prove ourselves of people mindful of Thy favor and glad 09:12:08
to do Thy will. 09:12:12
Bless our land with honorable industry, sound learning 09:12:13
and pure manners. 09:12:16
Save us from violence, discord and confusion, from 09:12:18
pride, and arrogance, and from every evil way. 09:12:21
Defend our liberties, and fashion into one united 09:12:26
people the multitudes brought hither out of many 09:12:29
kindreds and time and do with the spirit of wisdom 09:12:33
those in whom we entrust the authority of government 09:12:37
that there may be justice and peace at home and their 09:12:40
true obedience to Thy law when they show forth praise 09:12:44
among the nations of the earth, in time of prosperity, 09:12:49
fill our heart with thankfulness, and in the day of 09:12:52

trouble suffer not our trust. 09:12:54
We beseech Thee oh heavenly father to descend upon all 09:12:58
those who hold office in our state and city, wisdom, 09:13:04
charity and justice, that with steadfast purpose they 09:13:08
may faithfully serve in their offers in the well-being 09:13:11
of all people, through Jesus Christ our Lord, amen. 09:13:16
(Pledge of Allegiance) 09:13:23
>>GWEN MILLER: Roll call. 09:13:36
Dingfelder here. 09:13:38
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here. 09:13:39
>>SHAWN HARRISON: Here. 09:13:40
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Here. 09:13:41
>>ROSE FERLITA: Here. 09:13:42
>>KEVIN WHITE: Here. 09:13:43
>>GWEN MILLER: Here. 09:13:44
At this time we need to move the agenda. 09:13:45
>>MARY ALVAREZ: So moved. 09:13:46
>>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Shelby. 09:13:52
>>MARTIN SHELBY: The consent docket, I believe there 09:13:57
are some items signed up for by department heads that 09:14:01
wish to have those items discussed from the consent 09:14:04
docket, and Madam Chair -- 09:14:06
>>GWEN MILLER: Need to waive the rule for the Planning 09:14:10
Commission. 09:14:12
There -- they might need more than five minutes. 09:14:12

>>JOHN DINGFELDER: So moved. 09:14:17
>> Second. 09:14:18
>>GWEN MILLER: Number 5, I think it is. 09:14:19
Number 5. 09:14:20
Have a motion and second. 09:14:23
(Motion carried) 09:14:24
Anything else need to be removed? 09:14:28
Mr. Dingfelder? 09:14:37
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I would like to discuss number 14 09:14:38
when we get done. 09:14:41
>>GWEN MILLER: 14. 09:14:42
Any others? 09:14:43
Stormwater? 09:14:50
That's number 18, I think. 09:14:59
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: A request from staff to have that as 09:15:00
a minor separate discussion as well. 09:15:06
Number 18. 09:15:08
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second. 09:15:09
>>ROSE FERLITA: That was going to be my request, number 09:15:11
18. 09:15:15
>>GWEN MILLER: Any others? 09:15:15
We have a motion and second. 09:15:18
(Motion carried) 09:15:19
At this time we have -- we have a motion and second. 09:15:21
(Motion carried) 09:15:30

At this time we have Mr. Robert Hunter to come forward. 09:15:31
>>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe this is item number 5 you 09:15:40
are taking at this time? 09:15:43
>>GWEN MILLER: Yes. 09:15:43
>>> Bob Hunter. 09:15:46
I'm the Executive Director of the Hillsborough County 09:15:47
city-county Planning Commission. 09:15:49
Terry Cullen just distributed to you a report. 09:15:51
I will be summarizing that report so it's not necessary 09:15:57
for you to start reading it at this time. 09:16:00
I'm going to be briefing you on the significant changes 09:16:02
that the state made to the growth management law for 09:16:06
every city and county in the state. 09:16:10
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Good morning, Bob. 09:16:13
How are you? 09:16:16
>>> Good morning. 09:16:17
I'm fine, thank you. 09:16:17
There are some substantial changes that you need to be 09:16:19
aware of. 09:16:23
We have already met with the mayor, the administration, 09:16:24
her staff, and gone over that. 09:16:27
We have already briefed the Board of County 09:16:29
Commissioners, Tampa City Council, and Plant City City 09:16:31
Commission. 09:16:38
You're not last on our list. 09:16:38

We could finally get it worked into your calendar. 09:16:39
But just some things you need to be cognizant of as 09:16:43
time goes by in the next year or two. There were three 09:16:47
major subjects that were addressed in the growth 09:16:51
management act. 09:16:54
And please, if you have some questions, say wait, stop, 09:16:55
I have one. 09:16:59
By the way, I do not have all the answers. 09:16:59
I just have some -- a description of what was passed. 09:17:01
We are still working through the answers. 09:17:06
The three subjects are capital improvements, 09:17:09
educational element, and water supply. 09:17:14
Now, let's talk about capital improvement. 09:17:17
While you review your capital improvement program each 09:17:19
year when you approve your budget, it's a five-year 09:17:22
capital improvement program identifying what you're 09:17:26
going to do the next year with funding, and what you 09:17:29
plan to do the next four years with funding. 09:17:32
There were some substantial changes that are going to 09:17:38
impact each of the local governments as we move through 09:17:42
the process of how to pay for growth. 09:17:45
Some people complain that it's top-down management of 09:17:48
local governments, from a standpoint of making local 09:17:51
governments do plans. 09:17:55
I'd like to look at it in a different way from the 09:17:57

standpoint the state says if you're going to grow, and 09:18:00
that's your choice, then we want you to find a way to 09:18:05
pay for it. 09:18:07
The original legislation said that there will be 16 09:18:08
chapters in your plan, and each chapter will have 09:18:11
goals, measurable objectives and policies, but it said 09:18:14
you shall also identify six utilities, and they name 09:18:17
the utilities, that's transportation, you are familiar 09:18:21
with levels of service area dealing with level A, B, C 09:18:27
all the way through F. 09:18:30
Stormwater, sanitary sewer, water supply, parks, and 09:18:32
you have adopted levels of service in each of those 09:18:36
elements. 09:18:38
And what comes out of that is a list of improvements 09:18:40
that you have to make to address your adopted levels of 09:18:45
service. 09:18:48
Now, the state left up to local governments your choice 09:18:49
of what level of service to adopt in those six 09:18:53
elements. 09:18:56
You already had that. 09:18:57
And it also left up to you as to how to pay for that. 09:18:59
And you already have that in your adopted capital 09:19:02
improvement element. 09:19:05
What the state is saying now, though, is we're going to 09:19:06
get serious, because too many local governments are not 09:19:09

following through on what they said they were going to 09:19:13
do. 09:19:16
They didn't say City of Tampa. 09:19:16
They just said too many local governments are approving 09:19:18
growth and they are not finding ways to pay for it. 09:19:20
So if you have been doing that, they are going to say 09:19:23
you can't do that. 09:19:25
But I don't think you have. 09:19:27
What their saying is that you will develop a capital 09:19:30
improvement program with adopted levels of service, and 09:19:35
funding to pay for it, from current revenue sources for 09:19:40
the first three years of your capital improvement 09:19:45
program. 09:19:48
And you don't have that problem yet. 09:19:50
But it's saying, in years four and five, if you say, 09:19:51
oops, we don't have enough capital to current revenue 09:19:55
sources, we are going to identify planned revenue 09:19:59
source, and in the year 2011 we're going to refinance 09:20:01
our CIT money and we'll have money available then. 09:20:06
They say you can't do that. 09:20:11
While they allow you to do it, you can identify plan 09:20:14
sources, it has to be backed up in your five year 09:20:19
capital improvement program with current revenue 09:20:22
sources. 09:20:24
Okay. 09:20:25

First three years you have to have current revenue 09:20:26
sources. 09:20:28
Years three and four you can say we're going to plan 09:20:29
for a bond issue or something, but you have to at the 09:20:31
same time indicate current revenue sources that you're 09:20:34
going to back it up with in case it fails. 09:20:37
That's saying we are going to get real about how we pay 09:20:41
for capital improvement. 09:20:45
As we approve growth. 09:20:46
We have always left that decision up to local 09:20:48
governments and I'm not suggesting we not approve of 09:20:51
growth. 09:20:54
But I'm say field goal cities and counties across this 09:20:54
state are going to continue to enjoy the fruits of 09:20:56
growth, we're going to make you find a way to pay for 09:20:59
it. 09:21:04
It also said that you shall identify and you shall 09:21:04
achieve and maintain funding and level of service. 09:21:13
You can diminish or increase however you want to call 09:21:16
it your level of service for each of those six 09:21:18
elements, and the education element I am going to get 09:21:21
to. 09:21:23
You can have level of service A on all your roads, and 09:21:24
you won't ever obtain enough money to improve those 09:21:28
roads to that level. 09:21:30

You can say, gosh, we don't have enough money, we're 09:21:31
going to lower level of service on all our roads to F. 09:21:34
That's total congestion. 09:21:38
But it will decrease your capital needs for your roads. 09:21:39
And you might have enough money to pay for it. 09:21:44
But it says you will also achieve and maintain. 09:21:46
That's saying, we want you to prove to us that you're 09:21:51
going to achieve your level of service that you have 09:21:54
adopted, and you have a way to maintain your adopted 09:21:56
level of service. 09:22:00
That's not a one-year spike. 09:22:01
That's on a constant basis. 09:22:02
The state is getting very serious. 09:22:05
And they are saying, if you don't do these things, you 09:22:07
shall not approve the plan amendments, you shall not -- 09:22:10
you shall essentially not approve of growth. 09:22:14
Yes, ma'am. 09:22:17
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: A couple of these areas the city has 09:22:20
direct control over. 09:22:22
Several of them, we don't have the ability to create 09:22:22
the additional revenue streams to meet the needs. 09:22:26
That power resides in the county commission, 09:22:30
transportation, schools and impact fees come to mind. 09:22:33
Does the state give us any additional tools or autonomy 09:22:37
to generate the revenues to meet these needs? 09:22:42

>>> Well, the first thing is, I think they are implying 09:22:46
that you really need to work closely with the county. 09:22:49
And I'll cover that as it relates to schools. 09:22:53
Because that's a key issue here. 09:22:55
But it's also saying, even if you don't, from what I'm 09:22:58
reading it, receive cooperation from the county on some 09:23:04
of your utilities, to achieve your level of service, 09:23:07
you're going to have to find a way to address it or you 09:23:12
can't approve growth. 09:23:14
Pretty serious. 09:23:16
To answer your question. 09:23:18
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you. 09:23:19
>>> Bob Hunter: I'll come back to the. 09:23:21
The third item I mentioned -- and I'll cover it in a 09:23:26
second -- is potable water he will remit comprehensive 09:23:29
plan must incorporate the regional water supply within 09:23:34
18 months of its adoption. 09:23:37
That's not a problem for you. 09:23:39
There's another part that says, in order to address 09:23:41
water supply needs related to the population water 09:23:45
supply has been added as a concurrency requirement. 09:23:47
You don't have that problem either. 09:23:50
The bill states that water supply must be available at 09:23:52
the time of certificate of occupancy. 09:23:55
We don't see that as a problem to you either. 09:23:57

As it relates to capital improvements, though, it says, 09:24:00
as you transition, your capital improvement program to 09:24:04
your capital element he of your plan, that's in your 09:24:06
plan, how are you going to pay for it? 09:24:10
You can stretch out your improvements 10 to 15 years. 09:24:13
Now, part of the problem is, when you stretch it out, 09:24:18
projects keep getting added every week as you approve 09:24:22
of growth. 09:24:25
So that's achieve and maintain issues that I'm talking 09:24:26
about. Let me give the county as an example. 09:24:30
They might have $1.2 million worth of transportation 09:24:33
needs. 09:24:37
So they might say we will use our available CIT money, 09:24:38
and they might show that -- and we'll drag this out 09:24:44
because of the funding availability, bonds 15, 20 09:24:48
years, which is fine and good. 09:24:53
But every two weeks when they go through rezonings they 09:24:55
are adding to their list of needs, because new roads 09:24:57
keep getting added to the list. 09:25:00
So this is a backlog that we are going to address. 09:25:02
But then we start adding more projects on a daily 09:25:06
basis. 09:25:08
So it's pretty serious as to how we fund our growth in 09:25:09
the future. 09:25:12
I keep going back to the issue. 09:25:13

The state is saying if we are going to enjoy the luxury 09:25:15
of growth, we are going to have to find a way to pay 09:25:18
for it. 09:25:22
Okay? 09:25:23
Now let me go to the third subject which deals with a 09:25:24
new one in the law, which is an educational element. 09:25:27
The state is mandating an education element in each of 09:25:32
the comprehensive plans of every city and county in the 09:25:35
state. 09:25:38
In this county we need all four governments to adopt 09:25:42
the same element. 09:25:44
That's not a problem that I can see right now. 09:25:47
And it's required that you adopt an element by the year 09:25:50
2008. 09:25:54
The law also says, oh, by the way, if you don't have 09:25:55
time to do all this, you can adopt a level of service 09:25:58
countywide, which says we need a school in South Tampa, 09:26:02
we don't have capacity. 09:26:09
Oh, but in Lutz there's capacity so we can approve a 09:26:10
school, we can approve a development because there's 09:26:18
school capacity up there. 09:26:20
Now that's sort of ludicrous, but it's allowed right 09:26:24
now. 09:26:25
I do not see the school board, nor your staff nor the 09:26:26
other three jurisdictions, looking at that. 09:26:30

To back up a minute, state department community affairs 09:26:33
has awarded the school board and the Planning 09:26:36
Commission a $200,000 grant to develop a model element 09:26:38
and interlocal agreement. 09:26:43
And we have to have it done by June of '06. 09:26:46
Now, the element is due in '08. 09:26:51
We are one of six communities in the state that have 09:26:54
been selected to do this accelerated element. 09:26:56
I think it's great. 09:26:58
Because not only do they help us pay for it, it pulls 09:26:59
us together quicker. 09:27:03
Your staff is working with the staff of the other three 09:27:04
governments, the school board and the Planning 09:27:08
Commission on this effort. 09:27:10
But the element as it gets done in June has to be 09:27:14
adopted by all four governments. 09:27:20
I'm assuming that will take another four to six months 09:27:23
after that. 09:27:26
That's a draft approved by the committee, the staff 09:27:27
committee, multi-jurisdictional staff committee. 09:27:31
Then it comes to you through the public hearing 09:27:33
process. 09:27:35
We're also looking at creating a stakeholders group. 09:27:36
And that's the development community, citizens, 09:27:39
parents, teachers, all sorts of people that are 09:27:41

involved in education to be advisors and stakeholders, 09:27:43
to provide comments to the committee as they develop 09:27:49
the element. 09:27:54
An interesting point that I don't have an answer to is, 09:27:55
but we also have to have and adopt levels of service. 09:27:57
Now the law says, to use one example, if you don't have 09:28:00
adequate capacity in one's school, you can go to the 09:28:04
next area, and if there's capacity there, you may 09:28:08
approve growth. 09:28:11
I don't have an answer to the question. 09:28:16
But what if Tampa, and the schools in your area -- I 09:28:18
won't say within your city limits -- in the schools 09:28:23
that serve your citizens want a different level of 09:28:25
service than the county? 09:28:29
How is that going to be worked out? 09:28:30
I don't have that answer yes yet. 09:28:32
We are still trying to address that with the state 09:28:34
that. Question has been asked to me of Temple Terrace, 09:28:36
and by Plant City. 09:28:39
We want a different level of service, we want less 09:28:42
congestion. 09:28:44
The biggest issue, I think, facing us, setting 09:28:46
transportation aside, on the educational element is 09:28:50
funding. 09:28:53
For the past three years, the Planning Commission has 09:28:54

reviewed the capital improvement element at the school 09:28:56
board, and they are required by law to have funds 09:29:00
available for that first year. 09:29:02
And they have. 09:29:06
But we have raised questions concerning the 09:29:07
availability of funding in years three, four and five, 09:29:09
and we have done that for the past three years. 09:29:14
Part of the school board's problem is they don't have 09:29:17
that revenue stream and they have bonded out an 09:29:20
investment tax. 09:29:25
But what they have been doing over the past two or 09:29:25
three years is where a new school has come in to be 09:29:28
demanded to be built, they have taken funds that they 09:29:31
were going to rehabilitate a school, and then moved 09:29:35
them over collectively, and then had to put it into 09:29:39
building a new school. 09:29:42
The squeaky wheel gets the attention. 09:29:44
A lot of people aren't aware that the school has been 09:29:46
scheduled for rehabilitation, expansion, remodeling, 09:29:50
and so they are not necessarily aware that money has 09:29:53
been taken from here and moved over to here. 09:29:57
So their school, condition, stock, like your housing 09:29:59
stock in the City of Tampa, is getting worse, because 09:30:05
they haven't been able to address, in my opinion, 09:30:07
quality maintenance and rehabilitation or remodeling of 09:30:10

schools that are getting older and older and older, 09:30:13
just like Tampa's housing stock. 09:30:16
The school board is facing a problem from the 09:30:18
standpoint of not only that, but how they fund the 09:30:20
demand that's occurring. 09:30:24
And let me give you an example. 09:30:25
The four governments approved of 12,000 dwelling units 09:30:28
last year in Hillsborough County. 09:30:32
Now that equates, I think, roughly to maybe three 09:30:35
elementary schools, one and a half middle schools and 09:30:38
maybe one high school. 09:30:41
I think in terms of that. 09:30:42
What's a high school cost? 09:30:44
Some people can argue that the school board is not 09:30:45
wisely investing in building good schools cheaply. 09:30:48
That's not an issue that I want to get involved with. 09:30:51
My point is, let's say a high school cost 20 to 30 09:30:54
million, or 12 million, okay? 09:30:58
An elementary school is going to cost you 3 million. 09:31:00
Okay. 09:31:03
Times three, that's 9 million. 09:31:03
Build a middle school, that's 5 million more, is 14 09:31:06
million, and a high school is 20, so that's 34 million, 09:31:09
a year. 09:31:14
Now if we continue the rate of growth that we have 09:31:15

been, it's going to fall off slightly but if we were to 09:31:17
continue it, $24 million a year every year for the next 09:31:22
20 years that the school board needs to just keep up 09:31:27
with the rate of growth concerning construction. 09:31:31
That's not rehabilitation or remodeling of schools. 09:31:34
I think all four governments are facing the issue with 09:31:38
the school board, because they bonded out the 09:31:41
availability of the CIT money to fund schools. 09:31:45
Their facing a dilemma. 09:31:51
And some people, as I understand it, say they can raise 09:31:53
the ad valorem to make up the difference, two cents or 09:31:56
whatever. 09:32:01
I understand from school board staff that they can't 09:32:01
because if they do that they lose the equilibrium from 09:32:04
the state. 09:32:11
And we are in a box. 09:32:11
And if we don't get it adopted it impacts all four 09:32:13
governments. 09:32:16
And the way I read it is you know government can go 09:32:16
forth approving growth until we get that educational 09:32:19
element approved. 09:32:23
So some pretty scary stuff occurring out on the 09:32:24
horizon. 09:32:27
(Bell sounds). 09:32:28
The education element we are looking to get done in 09:32:29

June of '06, I will say that some of the '07 effects 09:32:31
all four government was that CIT, in a real way to pay 09:32:36
for your CIT. 09:32:40
It's going to hit the fan just about then, as you do 09:32:41
your fall of '07 budget and annual program. 09:32:44
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Mr. Hunter, how much money will the 09:32:50
school impact fees raise if they raised them 09:32:56
substantially? 09:32:59
>>> A quick mental thought. 09:33:03
Right now there's $195. Let's say $200 per house on 09:33:04
the average times 12,000, $2.4 million you're 09:33:10
generating. Let's say we were to raise it - I think; I 09:33:14
could be wrong -- an average in our area to $4,000 per 09:33:19
dwelling unit. 09:33:25
Now somebody is going to say that's way too much. 09:33:26
But the point is, if we don't find a way to pay for 09:33:28
this, our citizens are going to have to make up the 09:33:31
difference some other way. 09:33:34
You're going to have to find it. 09:33:35
But let's say we raise it to $4,000 on the average per 09:33:36
dwelling unit times 12,000 dwelling unit equals $48 09:33:40
million a year. 09:33:44
That could be generated to build schools. 09:33:47
Always Alvarez so that would take us out, what, about 09:33:50
five or ten years? 09:33:54

>>> To tell you the truth, I'm not so sure we'll ever 09:33:55
get impact fees up to that high. 09:33:58
Even though the studies show they should be around 09:34:01
that. 09:34:04
I think it's going to take first an action concerning 09:34:04
addressing the true cost of impact fees along with the 09:34:08
four governments working together on an increase in 09:34:14
sales tax. 09:34:16
Because we've got to keep up and maintain. 09:34:18
We have to achieve and maintain. 09:34:21
You're not just catching up. 09:34:23
As we're trying to pay for growth, we have maintenance 09:34:24
and operation of the capital system. 09:34:27
>>MARY ALVAREZ: So the end result is the impact fees 09:34:28
need to be raised? 09:34:32
>>> Yes, ma'am. 09:34:34
Substantially. 09:34:35
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Thank you. 09:34:35
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Following up on that, if one 09:34:37
jurisdiction, perhaps City of Tampa, has the will to 09:34:42
raise impact fees to an appropriate level, for schools, 09:34:45
but another jurisdiction unnamed perhaps does not have 09:34:50
that will, can there be divergent impact fees from 09:34:55
jurisdiction to jurisdiction? 09:34:58
>>> I don't see that. 09:35:00

>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is it legally possible? 09:35:01
>>> Our experience says no. 09:35:04
Especially because the school district serves everybody 09:35:05
in this county. 09:35:07
So it has to have the same impact fee. 09:35:08
>> So where is that determination made right now for 09:35:11
the $195? 09:35:14
>>> Board of County Commissioners. 09:35:16
A couple of other points. 09:35:23
Even if they are addressed and raised, they need to be 09:35:25
indexed so that as costs go up each year, those costs 09:35:29
go up. 09:35:36
If you don't index them, we are going to run into the 09:35:37
same problem we had for the past 20 years. 09:35:39
They remain flat at a fixed amount. 09:35:42
If they are indexed, that means local government 09:35:44
doesn't have to address that issue, they are indexed by 09:35:46
the cost of construction and land acquisition. 09:35:48
Just to throw that in there. 09:35:52
>> Cost of living adjustment of? 09:35:53
>> Yes, sir. 09:35:58
If it goes down, costs should go down. 09:35:59
If it goes up, they should go up. 09:36:01
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think we should take a strong look 09:36:03
at that. 09:36:05

That would be our legal department as well. 09:36:06
Sometimes, when we have a divergent view, we can 09:36:08
exercise our city -- what is it called? 09:36:12
The city charter, the home rule type of government. 09:36:17
And we can exercise that and sort of opt out of what 09:36:21
the county decides to do, so that might be something 09:36:25
perhaps we can look at. 09:36:27
>>> My experience says, based on other cases I've seen 09:36:29
across the state, is that everybody that's being 09:36:32
served -- everyone that's being served by the school 09:36:34
system has to opt into it for it to work. 09:36:38
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Best case scenario, sure, everybody 09:36:44
should opt in. 09:36:46
But I'm say field goal there's other government that is 09:36:47
won't go along, then perhaps we have to opt out. 09:36:49
>>> I'm not sure you can, but that's certainly 09:36:53
something your attorney should be looking at. 09:36:56
Very similar to the question that as growth occurs, in 09:36:59
Pasco County coming down to the limits of Hillsborough 09:37:03
County and the City of Tampa, if they approve of growth 09:37:08
and you make a decision you don't want to approve of 09:37:10
growth right up to that edge, there is no law requiring 09:37:12
them not to approve it. 09:37:17
So growth can come right down to your limits, and you 09:37:19
might be forced to improve roads because of a four-lane 09:37:22

hit ago two-lane as an example. 09:37:27
There is no law requiring the two to get together and 09:37:28
work it out. 09:37:31
>> The only thing on impact fees, it's my understanding 09:37:31
that our surrounding jurisdictions have been much more 09:37:34
aggressive in their school impact fees. 09:37:36
I know Hernando just adopted a very large impact fee on 09:37:41
something like 6,000 or something like that. 09:37:47
>>> Surrounding cots and other counties have adopted 09:37:48
substantial, anywhere from 3 to probably $8,000 per 09:37:51
dwelling unit. 09:37:56
>> I think the argument used to be you can't raise 09:37:57
impact fees because you will chase the growth to other 09:37:59
counties. 09:38:02
But now if the counties have impact fees, you know, 09:38:03
equivalent, then that argument goes away. 09:38:07
>>> And they -- Palm Beach even more growth than we are 09:38:10
experiencing in Palm Beach County. 09:38:15
>>SHAWN HARRISON: Mr. Hunter, I'm sorry, I was in the 09:38:17
back listening but I wasn't here. 09:38:22
I guess what you're saying is the school board is, from 09:38:26
what I understand, also, they are working on some 09:38:29
proposal that will be brought before the Board of 09:38:31
County Commissioners, and they will vote it up or down, 09:38:33
and this has to do with raising impact fees. 09:38:37

Now there's even some talk -- 09:38:39
>>> I don't know about that. 09:38:42
I assume that's happening but I didn't mention that. 09:38:43
>>SHAWN HARRISON: Okay. 09:38:45
Now there's some talk that Hartline might try to share 09:38:47
in all of that? 09:38:50
>>> Yes. 09:38:53
>> So if there is going to be a consideration of an 09:38:55
impact fee increase per schools, would that be 09:38:58
something that would have to be brought forward by the 09:39:01
school board? 09:39:04
>>> It doesn't have to be legally. 09:39:07
The Board of County Commissioners has the authority 09:39:09
over transportation impact fees, school impact fees, I 09:39:13
think those are the only two. 09:39:19
>>SHAWN HARRISON: But we here in Tampa have a different 09:39:20
impact fee for transportation than they do in the 09:39:23
county? 09:39:26
>>> Yes. 09:39:28
>> But that's different because the school board has 09:39:29
jurisdictional control over all schools? 09:39:31
>>> Yes, sir. 09:39:33
>> One of the things I know that we have had done in 09:39:35
the past when we approved large-scale annexations in 09:39:37
the New Tampa area was even though we couldn't require 09:39:41

as concurrency for schools to be built, we always 09:39:48
strongly encouraged the cooperation between the 09:39:51
developers and the school board to agree to that. 09:39:54
Otherwise, we wouldn't approve the annexation. 09:39:57
We have the ability to do that. 09:39:59
>>> I think that's a good point, because if you don't 09:40:06
have a way to extract it, the development community 09:40:09
wants to continue, and other jurisdiction as cross the 09:40:12
state, they have negotiated about T private sector 09:40:17
providing the facilities. 09:40:21
It's not new. 09:40:22
And it's been done in other places in the country, too. 09:40:24
So that allows growth to continue, and essentially to 09:40:26
fund its impacts by a different method. 09:40:30
Good point. 09:40:36
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Mr. Hunter, another question. 09:40:36
And maybe I should know the answer but I certainly 09:40:39
don't. 09:40:41
What are the developers and the builders think about 09:40:44
raising the impact fees? 09:40:47
I know it's probably a rhetorical question, but I need 09:40:48
to know the answer. 09:40:52
Are they for it or against it? 09:40:53
Because if they don't want it, then they are not 09:40:55
helping the situation. 09:40:59

>>> Two points. 09:41:01
They should probably address your question directly 09:41:01
themselves. 09:41:04
I don't want to stick my foot in my mouth. 09:41:08
I think they are sensitive to the low amount of the 09:41:11
$195. 09:41:13
By the way, the other thing -- per house. The other 09:41:14
thing I forgot to mention on impact fees that needs to 09:41:16
be changed, the way the impact fee ordinance is written 09:41:20
can only be used for real estate. 09:41:22
It cannot be used for the construction of the facility. 09:41:24
That has to get changed, too, and the county's impact 09:41:26
fee ordinance for this to work. 09:41:29
>> So you're saying that it's only for residential? 09:41:31
>>> No, no, it's only for the real estate. The land. 09:41:35
>> The land itself? 09:41:38
>>> Yes, ma'am. 09:41:40
In other counties it's for land and the facility. 09:41:40
But they best address that question themselves. 09:41:44
I can't answer for them. 09:41:46
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The other question, of course, is 09:41:47
transportation improvements, and how that's funded. 09:41:50
And you said that state was giving our community 09:41:53
additional money to work on the school issue, which is 09:41:57
great. 09:41:59

Do you have a mechanism in mind to address the 09:42:01
transportation needs -- funding for transportation 09:42:03
needs? 09:42:07
>>> The state is also saying that they provided 09:42:07
$1.2 billion of funding to build roads. 09:42:09
But if you really break that down -- 09:42:12
>>: Statewide -- 09:42:16
>>> And most of it is going to the state system, it 09:42:17
equals about two projects, or three, within all of 09:42:20
Hillsborough County. 09:42:24
So it might deal with some funds being available to 09:42:24
make one or two road improvements in the City of Tampa. 09:42:31
I think councilman Harrison is probably more familiar 09:42:34
with that at the MPO level. 09:42:36
But that's about it. 09:42:38
And one of the things they looked at last year, and 09:42:39
chose not to do, is to relook at doc stamps as a 09:42:47
funding source as imposed to impact fees. 09:42:51
There's other things being tossed around. 09:42:54
But right now we have the changes to the growth 09:42:56
management act and very little funding to support from 09:42:57
a state perspective that. 09:43:03
The other question that was raised quite often was that 09:43:05
local governments should be able to raise revenue 09:43:09
without going to referendum. 09:43:11

That didn't receive a big welcome up there either in 09:43:13
the legislation. 09:43:17
I'm sure it will be discussed again. 09:43:18
One of the school boards issues, I think they are 09:43:21
looking at, is they would like to be able to take to 09:43:23
the general public, I think, an issue of sales tax 09:43:26
without going through the Board of County 09:43:29
Commissioners. 09:43:31
Right now they have to go through them to get to there. 09:43:32
I don't mean to preempt them. 09:43:35
Those are just the things that are on the table right 09:43:37
now. 09:43:39
>>SHAWN HARRISON: Just to respond to the question that 09:43:40
Ms. Alvarez asked about what is the development 09:43:42
community feel, my experience in dealing with the 09:43:45
development community on any sort of governmental fees 09:43:48
or whether they be impact fees or other things, is they 09:43:53
don't necessarily not want to help. 09:43:57
They are used to -- they want to see results. 09:44:03
And so when you talk to them about paying impact fees, 09:44:06
they'll tell you, we have been paying transportation 09:44:09
impact fees forever, and there's nothing to show for 09:44:11
it. 09:44:14
They sort of think that it goes into this black hole of 09:44:15
government, and nothing ever happens with it. 09:44:17

But if you say to them, well, rather than doing that, 09:44:20
then, how about if you build this road? 09:44:24
Or else you build this school as part of your 09:44:26
development? 09:44:28
They see that as a win-win for everybody, because the 09:44:31
project gets done, they can help market their 09:44:34
development because of that, and it seems to me like 09:44:37
that's an approach we also ought to take. 09:44:41
And I would imagine the makeup of our current county 09:44:45
commission, that's probably a much more palatable path 09:44:47
to take than it would be to just start talking about 09:44:50
raising impact fees. 09:44:54
Because I think the reality of this situation is, it's 09:44:55
going to be a very tough row to Hoe down there about 09:45:00
getting impact fees raced to the levels that we are 09:45:04
talking about or necessary if that's the route it's 09:45:07
going to go. 09:45:10
>>> Just to answer this question, I didn't mention a 09:45:11
portion of the law passed called proportionate fair 09:45:14
share and you will be hearing about it, but it says 09:45:16
that a local government -- state Department of 09:45:18
Transportation shall develop and model concurrency 09:45:20
management ordinance with proportionate fair share 09:45:24
defined by December of '05. 09:45:27
And by December of '06 each local government must adopt 09:45:30

its own proportionate fair share ordinance. 09:45:34
The proportion of fair share ordinance says if the 09:45:37
developer wants to build, and a local government will 09:45:40
calculate the project that's necessary to support that, 09:45:44
and the developer can pay their proportionate fair 09:45:49
share, the problem with that is, local government can't 09:45:52
necessarily approve of it because the law goes on to 09:45:56
say that entire project has to be in the capital 09:46:00
improvement program. 09:46:04
And if it's going to go in the capital improvement 09:46:06
program, if they are paying their fair share, local 09:46:09
government has got to make up its portion to put it in 09:46:11
there. 09:46:14
But they recognize the issue, proportionate fair share, 09:46:15
I think, gets us one step closer to what you're talking 09:46:19
about. 09:46:22
Yes, sir. 09:46:22
>>ROSE FERLITA: Mr. Hunter, first of all, questions 09:46:25
that have been fielded to you. 09:46:27
You're very diplomatic, I have to say. 09:46:29
I was fortunate enough to attend a workshop that the 09:46:32
school board put on, and fortunate in the sense that 09:46:36
Mr. Hunter started the program, and I learned a great 09:46:39
deal that I didn't know about concurrency and 09:46:43
education, et cetera. 09:46:46

So I appreciate the invitation to go to that. 09:46:47
A couple of our staffers and couple of county 09:46:51
commissioners, I believe. 09:46:53
But in recent discussion was the development community 09:46:54
and -- this is what I think that their understanding is 09:46:56
and their position is. 09:47:01
They are certainly not in favor of increasing an impact 09:47:04
fee, although you're right, the county commissioners 09:47:07
are the one that is make that final decision. 09:47:09
I think their concern is whether or not a balance is 09:47:11
going to be reached in the meantime. 09:47:14
I think that they are very fearful because lots of us 09:47:15
don't know enough about the concurrency issue of what's 09:47:19
coming up and in '08 and they are afraid that a 09:47:22
concurrency issue might completely stop growth and 09:47:27
development and that's what I continue to get from 09:47:30
them, not that they are necessarily opposed to B 09:47:32
increases but they won't growth to continue. 09:47:36
We have to have growth and you talk about how we can 09:47:40
have that growth. 09:47:41
The reality is perhaps, sad as it might be, although 09:47:42
Mr. Dingfelder is trying to exercise some effort here 09:47:45
for us to increase impact fees, you're absolutely 09:47:50
right, because the school system services don't stop at 09:47:52
the line of city and unincorporated areas of the 09:47:54

county. 09:48:00
We continue do that. 09:48:00
So, you know, we, as a government body in the city, are 09:48:01
perhaps hopeful that when these things are continued to 09:48:05
be presented to the Board of County Commissioners, in 09:48:08
an adult, reasonable way, that perhaps that might be 09:48:11
translated to them. 09:48:15
And I would think that regardless of whether I agree 09:48:17
with some of their opinions and positions or not, that 09:48:20
we all understand that education is what we need to be 09:48:22
looking at. 09:48:25
And if we continue to have the defense sits that the 09:48:26
school board has now, we are going to be in a world of 09:48:28
trouble. 09:48:31
So I think that there's some good dialogue back and 09:48:32
forth in terms of impact fees in, terms of the 09:48:34
development community, in terms of the residents who 09:48:36
are worried that if the concurrency issue does not stop 09:48:38
development, that we are going to have some problems 09:48:43
there, too. 09:48:46
So it's an interesting time and hopefully we'll get 09:48:46
some good resolve. 09:48:49
But I for one thank you for the knowledge you have 09:48:50
brought to us and the fact you are always willing to 09:48:52
address concerns and questions that I'm confused about. 09:48:54

I thank you. 09:48:56
And your staff, needless to say. 09:48:57
You and Terry and the rest are just incredibly helpful 09:48:59
and I appreciate what you do. 09:49:03
>>> I appreciate your comment. 09:49:06
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I guess I need to clarify my 09:49:06
comments a little bit. 09:49:09
I think right now the county commission, or for the 09:49:10
last many years, county commission has kept their head 09:49:12
in the sand, ignoring the serious problem. 09:49:15
And if they want to do that about their schools, out in 09:49:20
the county, I guess that's their prerogative. 09:49:23
But that doesn't help the schools in South Tampa, in my 09:49:26
district. 09:49:29
And that's my point. 09:49:29
>>> Just final comment. 09:49:35
It's going to take all four governments and the school 09:49:36
board addressing the issue within the next nine months 09:49:38
to get us where we need to be to respond to the state 09:49:43
law. 09:49:46
Thank you. 09:49:47
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Mr. Hunter. 09:49:47
We appreciate the information you have given. 09:49:51
>>> Randy Goers, strategic technology, just want to 09:49:56
give you a brief summary of what the administration is 09:49:59

doing along these lines. The Planning Commission has 09:50:01
briefed the administration, Mr. Hunter briefed the 09:50:04
administration on the changes about a month ago. 09:50:06
City staff has been looking at the legislation, 09:50:10
reviewing it to try to assess the impact, the specific 09:50:13
impacts of the legislation, the requirements. 09:50:17
We are putting together some internal committees to 09:50:20
look at each of the issues, and we'll be providing a 09:50:22
regular briefing or status report to the administration 09:50:26
which I'm sure they'll make available to you and keep 09:50:29
you well informed of what's happening along the way. 09:50:32
With the exception of the school concurrency, all the 09:50:34
requirements will be addressed as part of our plan 09:50:38
update so there will be an opportunity to see how it 09:50:41
all impacts the plan update. The school concurrency is 09:50:43
on a fast track as Mr. Hunter mentioned, the public 09:50:47
facilities by June of next year. 09:50:49
The concurrency provisions are not required until I 09:50:52
believe 2008 so there's still a little bit of 09:50:55
uncertainty once we produced the element we have to put 09:50:59
it in effect at that time. 09:51:02
But I wanted to give you an idea, administration is 09:51:05
working with the Planning Commission, legal staff, and 09:51:08
the planning staff, so we'll continue to work through 09:51:10
this as the process unfold. 09:51:13

>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Goers, City Council is so aware 09:51:14
of these issues, because just about every Thursday 09:51:17
evening we have zoning meetings, and we hear requests 09:51:20
for additional development and growth, and we know how 09:51:23
demanded our infrastructure is in terms of those needs 09:51:30
and we don't wanted to be a passive recipient of 09:51:34
reports from you all. 09:51:37
We want to be actively engaged in the conversation 09:51:37
leading to our capital improvement budgets, how we are 09:51:40
going to begin to address these issues. 09:51:47
Because even if we don't have to meet all this by 2008, 09:51:49
our next year's capital improvement budget is going to 09:51:53
have to begin to address some of these concerns. 09:51:56
So what I'd like to do is get with you and figure out a 09:52:00
regular time to schedule meetings, perhaps at nine in 09:52:03
the morning in the Mascotte room, after you all have -- 09:52:07
to engage council in this conversation, because it's 09:52:12
tremendously important. 09:52:16
We see the results every Thursday night, and we want to 09:52:17
be an active part of this development of how the city's 09:52:20
strategy to address concurrency is going to go. 09:52:27
>>> Sure, we can do that. 09:52:30
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: On that same theme, Randy, we have 09:52:31
rescheduled this specific issue related to schools, I 09:52:35
think, for a discussion in January. 09:52:37

The clerk can tell you exactly when. 09:52:40
And I'm just hoping -- I'm hopeful that at that 09:52:44
meeting, perhaps you will take the lead on preparing a 09:52:45
presentation to tell us exactly where we are today in 09:52:49
regard to our schools, in regard to the growth that's 09:52:52
surrounding those schools, you know, that we have 09:52:55
already approved, or that's approved in the 09:52:58
comprehensive plan, and where we see the prognosis for 09:53:01
the next five or ten years. 09:53:04
Because clearly I indicated that some of my schools are 09:53:06
overcrowded, just by observation, by comment from 09:53:10
parents or principals. 09:53:14
Ms. Miller indicates that other schools that she's 09:53:16
aware of further to the north or to the east are 09:53:18
likewise. 09:53:22
But I think we need to quantify that a little bit and 09:53:23
have a better feel whereof we are today. 09:53:25
A reporter called me the other day and said that it's 09:53:28
not as severe an issue. 09:53:30
But I think we just need to get the facts. 09:53:32
>>> January is probably a real good time, because by 09:53:35
then some of the initial output of the work that the 09:53:38
school board is doing with the four jurisdictions 09:53:41
should be available. 09:53:43
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you. 09:53:43

>>GWEN MILLER: Other questions? 09:53:45
Thank you, Mr. Goers. 09:53:47
Mr. Chuck Walter. 09:53:49
>>JULIE BROWN: Julie Brown with the legal department. 09:53:55
I'm here as you know to pull item 18 from the consent 09:53:57
agenda because the stormwater department wants to 09:54:00
better inform you about the adopt a water rate problem 09:54:02
which is part of a project. 09:54:06
We have people to explain and present to you. 09:54:10
That's why we pulled from the consent agenda. 09:54:13
I'm also here with a substitute agreement because a 09:54:15
couple of changes have been made, minor changes, in 09:54:17
fact, since the agreement was filed with the clerk's 09:54:20
office, specifically we clarified the term in the 09:54:22
agreement, and we also extended the time for the city 09:54:26
to respond to the adopt a water rate people with, 09:54:28
regard to the proposed sign locations. 09:54:32
Those are both in the city's best interests, those 09:54:33
changes, and they are minor. 09:54:36
At this time I would like to substitute the agreement. 09:54:38
>>> Chuck Walter, stormwater. 09:54:45
We're here to really celebrate this program. 09:54:47
The adopt a water rate program is a great initiative 09:54:50
that's been taken advantage of by cities throughout the 09:54:53
country. 09:54:56

There's only one other city that's taken advantage of 09:54:58
this in the State of Florida and that's Miami. 09:55:00
So we are the second in the State of Florida to take 09:55:03
advantage of this public-private partnership. 09:55:05
We have asked Mr. Palozuto to come up and give us a 09:55:07
short presentation on this program that we'll be 09:55:16
initiating with the approval of this contract. 09:55:20
So with that, Paul. 09:55:22
>>> Paul Palozuto with environmental communication and 09:55:26
the waterway program and I appreciate this opportunity 09:55:32
to address council this morning. 09:55:34
We are a national program, and our goal is to help 09:55:36
cities and counties throughout the United States 09:55:39
improve water quality to fund comprehensive community 09:55:42
outreach and education programs, and to fund 09:55:46
technologies and projects that measurably improve water 09:55:48
quality at no cost to the taxpayer. 09:55:53
Our state and national waterways were supposed to be 09:56:00
saved by 1983. 09:56:03
Unfortunately EPA has missed that deadline and to this 09:56:05
day over 40% of our state and national waterways are on 09:56:08
impaired list, unswimmable, unfishable, and the water 09:56:11
act is an unfunded mandate so cities and states and 09:56:15
counties are required to meet minimum control measures, 09:56:18
and the federal government does not provide proper 09:56:22

funding. 09:56:24
And that's where we come N.we provide comprehensive 09:56:25
community outreach and education programs on 09:56:27
television, we provide cities with free high quality, 09:56:30
prime time television education, Internet, newspaper, 09:56:34
magazine, educational signage, if to help the city be 09:56:38
compliant with something called their NPDES, national 09:56:42
pollution discharge elimination permit. 09:56:46
That has 6 minimum control measures. 09:56:49
Our goal is to either carry out those minimum control 09:56:51
measures about the city or to help fund those minimum 09:56:54
control measures on behalf of the city at no cost to 09:56:57
the taxpayer. 09:57:00
At chuck said, we are a national program. 09:57:01
We are on the west coast and the east coast. 09:57:03
We are in areas of Los Angeles Sacramento, Miami, here 09:57:06
in Florida, and Baltimore, New York. 09:57:09
In the coming months we will be in Chicago, 09:57:13
San Francisco, state of New Jersey, Massachusetts, 09:57:15
negotiating contracts in large cities in states and 09:57:19
counties throughout the country. 09:57:22
We are strongly supported by Congress. 09:57:23
We are in the 2006 budget. 09:57:25
Congress is advising or directing cities and counties 09:57:28
to adopt the local waterway program to leverage the 09:57:30

power of partnerships. 09:57:35
We are supported by USPA, and NOAA. 09:57:36
NOAA is very excited about this possible project here 09:57:40
in -- the national oceanic atmosphere administration. 09:57:43
Also by Florida DEP, in discussion with a state law to 09:57:48
help the State of Florida clean up its waterways and 09:57:55
not put further burden on the taxpayers. 09:57:57
Also by leading corporations throughout the country, 09:58:01
and several corporations here in the Tampa area are 09:58:03
very excited about this possibility of helping assist 09:58:06
the City of Tampa comply with state and national 09:58:10
environmental regulations, as well as improve the 09:58:15
quality of people's lives in Tampa, improve the quality 09:58:18
of the environment when all live in, at no further 09:58:23
burden to the taxpayer. 09:58:25
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I assume you know that we are under 09:58:28
citation for violation right now. 09:58:32
>>> I'm not familiar with all the details, but yes. 09:58:35
>> What I'm concerned about is this sounds great. 09:58:39
It's a win-win sort of thing. 09:58:41
But what we need, honestly, is cash to make 09:58:45
improvements more than just "don't put bad things down 09:58:50
the drain." 09:58:53
And my question is really to the city, and that is, do 09:58:54
we get to direct where your efforts go? 09:58:57

Because my concern is that we get what we really need. 09:58:59
Now, we need -- we don't need advertisements in the 09:59:04
newspaper, TV, or web sites, whatever, as much as we 09:59:08
need actual dollars to make the improvements that we 09:59:12
are tremendously behind in making. 09:59:15
>>> That is a interpret point. 09:59:17
And the way our program works is through educational 09:59:19
signage, that corporations fund. 09:59:22
50% of the dollars that come go directly to the city to 09:59:25
fund stormwater and urban run-off, pollution programs. 09:59:30
So in addition to 50% of the money that the city would 09:59:34
get from signage, you also get a comprehensive 09:59:36
community outreach program at no cost to the city. 09:59:39
So what I think is very important about your point is 09:59:43
at the end date our program is very interesting in 09:59:46
funding structural technologies and projects that will 09:59:49
lead to measurable cleaner water. 09:59:52
So I think that point is very important and that is 09:59:56
certainly the key point of our program is that the City 09:59:58
of Tampa will receive cash to fund various technologies 10:00:01
that Chuck and his group are exploring doing through 10:00:05
public-private funding. 10:00:12
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Because of your program, will the city 10:00:16
be able to utilize grants that would help with this 10:00:18
project? 10:00:23

>>> Another very good point. 10:00:23
In fact, one of the issues with grants oftentimes is 10:00:25
matching funds. 10:00:28
And what we'd like to see is our dollars used as 10:00:29
matching funds so that you can go after grants that you 10:00:33
wouldn't ordinarily go after with dollars helping to 10:00:37
use our dollars to lynch additional dollars. 10:00:40
>>MARY ALVAREZ: The city of Miami utilizes this grant 10:00:42
program? 10:00:48
>>> Yes. 10:00:49
>> How much money did they get? 10:00:49
>>> So far, they are somewhere in the 150, 200,000 10:00:51
dollars in cash and already received a program that's 10:00:59
worth more than a million dollars on television and 10:01:02
various forms of educational media. 10:01:05
>> And that was additional cash did you mention? 10:01:09
>>> The cash portion thus far is somewhere -- not for 10:01:12
sure but somewhere in $150,000 worth of cash thus far 10:01:16
and community outreach program worth about a million to 10:01:20
$1.2 million so that program has a value somewhere in 10:01:23
the area of $1.5 million, 1.3 to $1.5 million in the 10:01:28
city of Miami. 10:01:32
>> Because what I understand is that the city will be 10:01:34
maintaining the waterways. 10:01:37
And that would be an outgrowth from our city covers, 10:01:41

even though your signs would be -- coffers, even though 10:01:47
paying so much per sign, and we are only getting half 10:01:51
of that. 10:01:54
>>> You get 50% of the money, but then you also get a 10:01:55
community outreach in education. 10:01:57
This is something I want to point out, that what we 10:02:01
provide the city in the way of a community outreach in 10:02:03
education program is worth more to the city than if we 10:02:07
gave you 100% of the money. If we gave you 100% of the 10:02:10
money you couldn't actually provide the television, the 10:02:14
radio, the newspaper, the Internet, and the various 10:02:18
other important educational components that we provide 10:02:20
you, with 100% of the money. The reason we can do that 10:02:24
is that we are a national program, and we use scale. 10:02:27
So we use components in Tampa that we use in Baltimore, 10:02:30
that we use in Long Beach. 10:02:34
So we are able to really provide you with the benefit 10:02:36
of more than 100% of the money. 10:02:38
I think that's the important part of public-private 10:02:41
partnerships. 10:02:44
Actually, providing more to cities than they would 10:02:45
otherwise receive. 10:02:47
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Do you happen to have a list of 10:02:49
sponsors? 10:02:53
>>> Yes, we do. 10:02:55

We have some sponsors here in Tampa that are 10:02:56
interested, companies like landmark, Wheelabrator, 10:02:58
other corporations that are interested in being 10:03:06
involved. 10:03:09
>>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Ferlita? 10:03:09
>>ROSE FERLITA: Yes, Madam Chairman. 10:03:15
How many cities or municipalities are in your program 10:03:17
right now? 10:03:26
>>> Over a dozen, probably somewhere like 15 cities. 10:03:27
I'd have to count them. 10:03:31
>>ROSE FERLITA: Nationwide 12 to 15? 10:03:32
>>> Yes. 10:03:35
We are currently in or negotiating contracts with 12 of 10:03:36
the top 25 cities in the United States right now. 10:03:39
>> But I'm interested in what's current, 12. 10:03:42
Because something could happen in the negotiations and 10:03:44
they could fall apart. 10:03:46
But 12 right now. 10:03:49
I just have a couple of questions for Mr. Daignault. 10:03:49
Yesterday, colleagues, I heard about this program at 10:03:56
the council office, and Mr. Daignault was nice enough 10:03:58
to join me and our attorney Mr. Shelby to have a nice 10:04:01
not so quite discussion, huh? 10:04:05
Ms. Saul-Sena awhile ago said we don't want to be a 10:04:11
passive recipient, and we continue to be passive 10:04:13

recipients. 10:04:16
I asked Mr. Daignault how long he or the administration 10:04:17
has been working on this and it's been nine to twelve 10:04:22
months. 10:04:24
I heard about it yesterday. 10:04:25
It's my understanding that we already have a media 10:04:26
event planned next week. 10:04:29
They have got 12 cities on board now. 10:04:32
That's good but that's not great. 10:04:34
We have lots of language here to look at the day 10:04:37
before. 10:04:41
It seems like it's a repeat performance from last week 10:04:42
or the week before or the week before or the week 10:04:45
before. 10:04:48
This is kind of indirectly, directly related, and I see 10:04:50
two of my good friends in the second row, Julia Cole 10:04:55
and Morris Massey and Mr. Shelby and lots of citizens 10:04:57
that have spent a lot of time on the sign committee 10:05:00
with me. 10:05:04
And we are just about ready to come and give an update 10:05:04
to the council, and I think that's something we have 10:05:07
been concerned about, in terms of sign pollution. 10:05:09
And I'm not saying that of course this is sign 10:05:11
pollution. 10:05:13
But when you look at what this project involves -- and 10:05:13

I'm looking at it only on the face and very suffix, 10:05:16
because I haven't had a lot of time to look at it. 10:05:19
We're talking about signs I think that are two and a 10:05:23
half feet across, four feet down, we are going to stick 10:05:25
them in our waterways, I think this says perhaps some 10:05:28
will be put in county and state roads, too. I haven't 10:05:32
read it very intently but that's what I read quickly. 10:05:35
My comment is that in this type of a relationship -- 10:05:38
and it's too bad we bring outsiders like Paul because 10:05:42
he has nothing to do with how the administration 10:05:45
administrates. But wouldn't it be nice if this were 10:05:48
not a passive, "oh, by the way, you guys look at this 10:05:51
today, vote on it tomorrow, we have a media event next 10:05:54
week, we are ready to rock and roll, except for the 10:05:57
administration, we have looked at it for nine or twelve 10:06:00
months," with no consideration to tell the council, we 10:06:03
think this is what's coming on board, we have 10:06:05
continually talked about the deficit of funds to do 10:06:07
stormwater issues, and it just comes to us yesterday. 10:06:09
So again, it's the same type of thing that instead of 10:06:13
going forward and being positive about some things that 10:06:16
are presented -- and I think on its face it's probably 10:06:19
a good policy. 10:06:21
But I am not prepared to vote on it. 10:06:22
And Mr. Daignault was gently enough yesterday to hear 10:06:26

me vent. 10:06:29
And it's just that it's business as usual, as awful as 10:06:30
it always is. 10:06:35
Why is it that if this thing has been in place for nine 10:06:36
months we haven't had time to digest it? 10:06:39
And I think this last week I asked Mr. Walter to answer 10:06:41
to me about where the funding came for the boat that I 10:06:46
saw and employees on spotlight Tampa, and Ms. Alvarez 10:06:53
followed it up with a question. 10:06:56
I think she got an answer. 10:06:58
I don't think I did. 10:07:00
I received this memorandum yesterday between 3 and 4 10:07:01
p.m 10:07:03
You know, Steve, you heard my complaint yesterday. 10:07:04
I am not going to take an overdose of Nexium today just 10:07:07
to simply get through this council. 10:07:11
I am simply telling you that the way do you business 10:07:13
under Mr. Smith's watch or the mayor's watch really is 10:07:15
counterproductive. 10:07:19
I think it could be a good issue, it could be a good 10:07:20
project, but I can't digest it that fast and continue 10:07:23
to be prepared with the rest of the agenda that's here 10:07:26
today. 10:07:28
And I'm concerned. 10:07:32
I'm concerned about those signs. 10:07:32

That's going to be some sign pollution. 10:07:34
Whether it sends a good message or not. 10:07:36
Two and a half feet by four feet put someplace. 10:07:38
And his list of potential sponsors is quite healthy. 10:07:42
Lots of signs. 10:07:45
We are trying to look at on-site Symmes signs. 10:07:47
Just seems like it would be a nice Curt easy to let us 10:07:50
know what's involved with the signage to do for the 10:07:53
city or not for the city. 10:07:56
It's a viable project but there's 12 cities nationwide. 10:07:58
There's not 120 cities nationwide. 10:08:02
So it's kind of, as far as I'm concerned, it's still a 10:08:04
pilot test. 10:08:10
For that reason, because of the fact I haven't had 10:08:10
enough time to look at it, it's not been presented to 10:08:13
me early enough, I'm not going to support it today. 10:08:15
>>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Paul really had not finished his 10:08:19
presentation. 10:08:22
>>ROSE FERLITA: He can continue. 10:08:22
>>STEVE DAIGNAULT: I don't know if it's possible to let 10:08:24
him do his PowerPoint presentation. 10:08:26
>>ROSE FERLITA: The reason I interrupted him then is 10:08:28
because of some of the issues he was talking about, 10:08:30
Steve, I had an issue with you the administration. 10:08:34
So I figured we'd get that out of the way and let him 10:08:37

continue because the issue is not with him. 10:08:38
It's with the preparation or lack of preparation from 10:08:39
the administration. 10:08:41
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Mr. Daignault, can I ask a question? 10:08:41
The signs that Ms. Ferlita is talking about, they are 10:08:46
going to be signs that we will be looking at as 10:08:49
pertaining to our codes? 10:08:56
>>STEVE DAIGNAULT: They will absolutely have to comply 10:08:58
with city code. 10:09:00
Yes, ma'am. 10:09:01
And I think in his presentation, he has a sample from 10:09:01
another city. 10:09:05
>> And it would only be on city owned property from 10:09:07
what I read here. 10:09:09
>>> Correct. 10:09:10
>> It won't go into the counties or into the state or 10:09:11
anything else. 10:09:13
>>> Correct. 10:09:14
>> Thank you. 10:09:15
>>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder. 10:09:15
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Steve, a profit or not for profit? 10:09:18
>>STEVE DAIGNAULT: I think they are for profit. 10:09:28
>> They are for profit? 10:09:30
And when everybody says it's going to comply with city 10:09:32
code, it sounds like it's going to be an exception to 10:09:37

the city code. 10:09:42
JULIE BROWN: We have taken a very thorough look at. 10:09:42
This with the co-sponsorship language this complies 10:09:50
with the city code under government signs. 10:09:52
>> Which is a government exception. 10:09:54
>>> Correct. 10:09:56
And as you can tell, from looking at the agreement that 10:09:56
was provided to you last week, it does have -- the city 10:10:00
does have the final right after approval of all signs, 10:10:04
and all locations, and -- 10:10:07
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I just don't want council to be 10:10:12
misled by any means to say it's going to comply with 10:10:14
our sign code. 10:10:16
It's going to comply with our sign code because there's 10:10:17
a government exception that says that government signs 10:10:19
don't have to comply with the sign code. 10:10:22
I mean, that's just -- I looked at it by coincidence 10:10:25
yesterday. 10:10:29
It's right now exhibit B shows 125 signs. 10:10:31
Sign locations that they are asking for. 10:10:35
>>> That's correct. 10:10:38
And actually under the agreement we have 60 days after 10:10:38
execution of this agreement to approve or disapprove of 10:10:41
those locations which which has Mr. Daignault mentioned 10:10:44
they will only be in city rights-of-way. 10:10:48

>>JOHN DINGFELDER: But it's 125 locations. 10:10:50
And I think they are going to put them on poles, on 10:10:53
existing sign poles or light poles? 10:10:57
That's Watt looks like. 10:11:00
>>> They have a lot of options, in fact. 10:11:02
But some of those are county and state and those won't 10:11:04
be included because determined that these signs will 10:11:07
only be posted in city rights-of-way so that number is 10:11:11
a little -- 10:11:14
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: The only other thing to point out 10:11:15
was on page 4. 10:11:18
Rose, you bring out some good points. 10:11:20
Rose, I'm complimenting you. 10:11:22
I said you brought up some good points and I'm glad you 10:11:25
raise this to our attention. 10:11:27
But on page 4, 2.3 (C) it talks about the media, you 10:11:29
know, that this gentleman was talking about, that they 10:11:35
might want to put these ads on radio or TV. 10:11:40
But if you look at the paragraph it says if the company 10:11:43
desires to didn't additional media other than in Tampa, 10:11:46
it will submit -- it seems like this is sort of an 10:11:53
optional thing, the media. 10:11:55
JULIE BROWN: It is an optional thing. 10:11:57
I'll read the whole sentence in its entirety. 10:12:00
It says AAW desires to didn't additional other media 10:12:02

than Tampa it will submit all outlines of the proposed 10:12:06
other media to the city for its conceptual review, 10:12:09
input and approval which shall be provided. 10:12:12
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: My point is, you know, I don't want 10:12:14
us to be sold on something that is optional on the part 10:12:18
of the company. 10:12:22
In other words, I think their main deal is they want to 10:12:23
put up these signs, they want to give us half the 10:12:27
money. 10:12:30
On the surface that sounds like possibly a good thing 10:12:30
as long as it's not too much sign pollution. But then 10:12:33
when it talks about radio and television, I don't think 10:12:36
that's a mandatory proposition. 10:12:38
I think it sounds like an optional proposition under 10:12:41
this contract. 10:12:45
You're a lawyer. 10:12:46
>>> I that's correct, that is optional. 10:12:47
I think Paul can better describe. 10:12:50
>>GWEN MILLER: You say approve. 10:12:54
Who is going to be approving? 10:12:55
City Council? 10:12:56
>>> City staff. 10:12:58
Administration. 10:12:59
>>GWEN MILLER: Downfall council -- does council have 10:13:00
anything to do it with? 10:13:02

>>> No. 10:13:04
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Have you ever done this program 10:13:04
without the signs, where you just use the other forms 10:13:06
of media, but we don't have the signs all around? 10:13:09
>>> Paul: Unfortunately that's where the funding comes 10:13:14
from for the projects and technologies we talked about 10:13:16
earlier, the cash portion, is that the dollars, the 50% 10:13:19
that comes from the signs are the dollars that Chuck 10:13:22
and his group would use to fund the technologies that 10:13:24
area. 10:13:29
In terms of television and radio and newspaper and 10:13:29
magazine, we intend to launch those day one, so we have 10:13:32
put in front of Tampa some ideas about what we're 10:13:36
talking about on television. 10:13:40
The City of Tampa has -- 10:13:43
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Then why is it optional in paragraph 10:13:45
3? 10:13:48
>>> Can I have the PowerPoint up and describe the way 10:13:51
some of these things work? 10:13:56
I apologize. 10:13:56
Again I am going to go quickly through this because we 10:13:56
talked about environmental crisis and underfunded 10:13:58
civic, health, education and welfare programs. 10:14:01
And we have got an unfunded federal mandate here. 10:14:04
In this case, we are helping corporations accomplish 10:14:08

government affairs, environmental affairs, community 10:14:12
affairs, corporate and socially responsible corporate. 10:14:14
Here's an example of one of our signs. 10:14:22
This is a New Jersey example. 10:14:23
Clean water, it's up to you, New Jersey. 10:14:26
This was a phrase that the state of New Jersey was 10:14:28
already using and we wanted to continue with that in 10:14:30
the state of New Jersey. This is sponsored by New 10:14:34
Jersey American water. 10:14:38
At the bottom of each of these signs is an indicational 10:14:38
best management practice, educating citizens on how 10:14:42
they can be part of the solution, from please reuse, 10:14:45
reuse, recycle, recycle used motor oil, these are all 10:14:48
messages that are important with Tampa achieving its 10:14:57
community outreach and education component and its 10:15:01
public participation components of his BPBS permit at 10:15:05
no cost to the taxpayers. 10:15:10
So these signs which go anywhere from 250 to 400 a 10:15:12
month depending on where it is, 50% of that money goes 10:15:16
directly to the city or county to fund stormwater 10:15:19
run-off prevention programs, and we then launch a 10:15:24
television component which we are planning to launch 10:15:27
from day one, this is high quality television, 10:15:29
television commercials shot in high DEF, cinematic, 10:15:33
shown during prime time, so the City of Tampa will 10:15:39

receive an education program on television shown during 10:15:42
prime time that needs to be approved of course by the 10:15:46
city, and there's an Internet component, a quarterly 10:15:50
magazine which will be provided to the City of Tampa. 10:15:53
You: Didn't answer my question. 10:15:57
The media looks like a wonderful thing. 10:15:58
But why is it optional on 2.3 paren C. 10:16:00
>> It's optional because it's based on corporate 10:16:05
cooperation. 10:16:08
In the City of Tampa there is already that 10:16:09
participation. 10:16:11
>> So it shouldn't be optional. 10:16:12
>>> Well, it's optional until someone requests it. 10:16:13
A corporation requested it. 10:16:17
In this case we do have that corporate support. 10:16:19
So it is no longer optional in Tampa. 10:16:21
But I have to say that up front, in order to secure 10:16:23
that corporate participation first. 10:16:26
And I can't promise the City of Tampa something if I 10:16:28
don't have that corporate support first. 10:16:31
>> Maybe that's the language that should be in there 10:16:34
that says that if you hit a certain threshold or get 10:16:35
corporate support that you will guarantee that. 10:16:39
JULIE BROWN: The attorneys, we worked on this for 10:16:41
several months. 10:16:48

And basically the other media is an additional benefit 10:16:49
to the whole program. The primary benefit obviously is 10:16:52
the message conveyed in those government signs. 10:16:54
That is the -- and the funds that we receive from those 10:16:57
to comply with our MPDS program and to educate, that is 10:17:00
the primary purpose. 10:17:05
The other media while it is optional in the agreement, 10:17:06
and Paul and his group has already secured that to our 10:17:09
benefit as well. 10:17:12
>>> Paul: Also I think it's important discussion about 10:17:15
signage has come up. 10:17:18
I live in a small beach community where there's 10:17:19
virtually no signs. 10:17:23
There are no bus shelters, no billboards, no signage of 10:17:24
any kind. 10:17:27
When I designed this program in southern California, my 10:17:28
goal was design a program that my own community would 10:17:31
support. 10:17:35
And so I spent a great deal of time and effort 10:17:36
designing signs that were like art, that fit the 10:17:39
climate, geography of the city, and that my own city 10:17:42
would support. 10:17:46
And we have won the support in cities in California 10:17:47
that have virtually no signage. 10:17:49
We have never had a complaint. 10:17:52

It would not be my goal to put signs on every street in 10:17:53
Tampa and inundate Tampa in signage. 10:17:58
My goal is to simply accomplish enough corporate 10:18:02
participation and put in place signage that would help 10:18:05
the city comply with its MPDS permit and to make 10:18:07
progress without putting further burden on the 10:18:13
taxpayer. 10:18:16
And I believe we have designed signs that are 10:18:17
attractive, that are not visual blight. 10:18:19
>>ROSE FERLITA: Sir, I have a question about your 10:18:22
signage and your examples there. First of all from 10:18:25
your comment now, is it my understanding that at some 10:18:27
point you will say to sponsors, he would don't want any 10:18:30
more business, we don't want any more signs, so you 10:18:33
can't sign up on this program. 10:18:36
So is there a maximum number of signs that you are 10:18:37
going to introduce, period, and then do give the rest 10:18:39
of the money back? 10:18:43
>>> I want to point out that you the city determine the 10:18:45
total number of signs, where they are placed, and the 10:18:48
sponsors that are on those signs. 10:18:51
So "- 10:18:53
>>ROSE FERLITA: Who is determining total number of 10:18:54
signs? 10:18:57
>>> That is the administration's determination. 10:18:57

>> I haven't read it. 10:19:00
I don't know. 10:19:00
Ms. Brown, do you have the number of signs that's going 10:19:01
to be the maximum? 10:19:04
And then we are going to stop because we don't want any 10:19:04
more revenue from this program or what? 10:19:06
>>JULIE BROWN: We have 60 days to review it. 10:19:10
This agreement has not been approved yet. 10:19:12
So we have looked at the preliminary list. 10:19:14
And I know that we have some objections to -- 10:19:16
>>ROSE FERLITA: Okay, but the proposed sign locations 10:19:19
is one thing. 10:19:21
The number of signs at different locations. 10:19:22
Are you going to maximize the number? 10:19:25
Are you going to say we will have no more than 200 10:19:27
signs city-wide? 10:19:29
>>> Yes. 10:19:30
>> You are going to do that? 10:19:30
>>> I personally am not going to do that. The 10:19:32
administration is going to do that. 10:19:34
>> So since we are the passive recipients again, how do 10:19:35
we determine what you are doing is enough? 10:19:40
In other words, too many signs might not be good. 10:19:41
In these 12 cities or whatever he has projects going 10:19:44
now, you know, maybe their population is smaller, 10:19:46

bigger, the size of the city or town or whatever is 10:19:50
smaller. 10:19:55
If we limit the number of signs -- and obviously we 10:19:56
limit the revenue. 10:19:59
>>> Right. 10:20:00
>> If we don't limit the number of signs, we have a 10:20:00
pro -- proliferation of signs out there. An additional 10:20:02
concern -- see, ladies and gentlemen, this is part of 10:20:06
the process of what I am saying. 10:20:09
Our council meetings go longer and longer and longer, 10:20:10
not fair to the people who are here for other stuff, 10:20:13
but these are questions we don't know because we don't 10:20:15
have enough time to ask staff before we go on the air. 10:20:17
It's so foolish. 10:20:20
But, John, let me ask this one more. 10:20:22
I think it's a wonderful idea to defer it. 10:20:24
Awhile back, and I think -- and Mr. Massey, maybe you 10:20:27
can help me with this. 10:20:31
It's just a compare sy. 10:20:32
It's not along the same line. 10:20:33
I remember that when they were trying to get some 10:20:34
signage on the streetcar stops, some kinds of 10:20:37
businesses were not the businesses they wanted to have 10:20:40
signs. 10:20:43
So you could envision clean water, it's up to you, New 10:20:44

Jersey, and then sponsored by somebody that -- it's 10:20:48
like come down to my -- I'm not going to say 10:20:55
specifically because that's going to cause a problem, I 10:20:58
think, litigationwise. 10:20:59
But somebody who maybe has the kind of business that 10:21:01
wouldn't be conducive to this, you know. 10:21:04
Come and buy your syringes cheap at my business or 10:21:07
something. 10:21:10
I don't know. But what are we going to do then? 10:21:10
Are we going to discriminate from business to business 10:21:12
to business? 10:21:15
>>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Council members, if I corks we would 10:21:17
still like Paul to finish his presentation. 10:21:19
I know you still may have some questions. 10:21:21
Please keep in mind -- and I know there's a lot of 10:21:23
issues associated with this. 10:21:26
But this has to do with our stormwater program. 10:21:27
It's not been really spoken here. 10:21:30
It has to do with cleaning the water. 10:21:32
It has to do with us being aggressive in trying to find 10:21:34
other moneys, grants, and other opportunities to bring 10:21:38
to our stormwater enterprise fund. 10:21:41
And so those are the sorts of things that the staff is 10:21:45
trying to do, and we are bringing them to you. 10:21:49
But again, we really would like for Paul -- he just has 10:21:52

a couple more slides -- to finish and then we'll be 10:21:55
glad to answer -- 10:21:58
>>ROSE FERLITA: Mr. Daignault, I'm sorry I have to 10:21:59
continue interjecting concerns and I have to to. 10:22:01
But it something you put us in that position. 10:22:06
When you look at when the gentleman says 12 cities, 10:22:08
there are 19,429 municipal governments in the United 10:22:10
States. 10:22:14
The 12 cities who are customers of his represent 10:22:14
.000617%. 10:22:18
That to me is not strong reinforcement that this is a 10:22:20
successful project. 10:22:24
>>SHAWN HARRISON: Continuing, allowing you to make your 10:22:25
presentation, let me just make sure I got the math 10:22:33
right. 10:22:36
You've got 250 minimum per sign is what you're going to 10:22:36
charge. 10:22:41
We'll get 50% of that. 10:22:41
Fits going to be under the minimum, we got to give you 10:22:44
our approval. 10:22:46
So we are going to get 125 bucks per sign per month, 10:22:47
and you have got 125 locations mapped out, roughly, 10:22:52
that you say you're ready to go, we're going to start 10:22:56
generating revenue on these locations immediately. 10:23:00
Right? 10:23:05

Or is there going to be some ramp-up time? 10:23:05
>>> There's some ramp-up time. 10:23:09
First I need your approval to secure those 10:23:11
corporations. 10:23:13
We have gone out to the community, to test it, the 10:23:14
waters, and there's a great deal of interest. 10:23:17
Yes, there are corporations that are interested but 10:23:19
there will be a ramp-up period. 10:23:21
>> How many locations do you have in Miami? 10:23:22
>>> There are 100 approved locations. 10:23:25
>> And how long have you had your contract in place? 10:23:27
>>> For about 18 months. 10:23:30
>> What has your experience been? 10:23:35
How long will it take to get up to the maximum number 10:23:38
of location that is you picked out? 10:23:40
>>> In the case of Miami, right after launch we were 10:23:42
probably 70 to 75% sold right after launch. 10:23:46
>>SHAWN HARRISON: So if I do the math it comes out to 10:23:51
over $15,000 per month, 125 locations at $125 per sign. 10:23:53
Is that right? 10:23:59
>>> The math sounds right, yeah. 10:24:01
>>SHAWN HARRISON: So I don't know if I can trust this 10:24:05
little cell phone calculator. 10:24:10
I certainly don't trust my own mathematical ability. 10:24:12
But that's a lot of money. 10:24:15

So finish up your presentation, if you would. And then 10:24:17
we can talk about the pros and cons. 10:24:21
>>GWEN MILLER: How much longer is your presentation? 10:24:23
>>> Paul: It's just a few more slides and I can get 10:24:27
through. 10:24:30
But in addition to the cash money, the communication 10:24:30
outreach program on television already secured by here 10:24:33
would be worth many times the cash dollars that would 10:24:37
come to you, and important aspects of compliance. 10:24:40
Again going around this wheel, there's a quarterly 10:24:43
magazine we would be releasing on behalf of Tampa to 10:24:45
help you comply, an Internet component, television, 10:24:48
international signage. 10:24:51
We talked about 12 cities. 10:24:53
It's really more than that. It's probably closer to 10:24:55
20, top cities in the United States, and right now, 10:24:57
there's so much interest in our program. 10:25:00
I can't even get to all the cities that are interested. 10:25:02
I will be launching Detroit on November 4th. 10:25:05
The benefits to communities, cleaner water, no cost to 10:25:08
taxpayers, this is a measurable, important 10:25:13
public-private partner publication education campaign. 10:25:18
Here's some examples of things that are being funded. 10:25:20
The issue came up about us being for profit or not for 10:25:23
profit. 10:25:26

We are for profit corporation but we will be funding 10:25:26
nonprofit groups here in the Tampa community that are 10:25:28
already doing good work. 10:25:31
It is not our goal to come in and reinvent the wheel 10:25:32
and do the work of very skilled non-profits in the 10:25:35
community. 10:25:39
And our goal also is not to go after 501(c)3 money to 10:25:40
take money away from those very important local FGOs 10:25:46
and that's a reason why we are for-profit. 10:25:50
We have a number of key programs. 10:25:53
BP, Boeing, bank of America, leading national 10:25:56
corporations all supporting our program. 10:26:00
And we bring a very, very important return on 10:26:02
investment for corporations in the United States, and 10:26:04
this is the reason for our success. 10:26:07
So with that, I am free to answer any additional 10:26:08
questions. 10:26:13
>>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder. 10:26:13
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Daignault, it's an interesting 10:26:16
idea. 10:26:19
I share Ms. Ferlita's concerns about the sign pollution 10:26:19
issue. 10:26:22
And I think we need to explore that a little bit 10:26:23
perhaps in another week. 10:26:26
But since it is such an interesting idea, and we're 10:26:28

paying this company 50% of our revenues, of the total 10:26:32
revenues to do it, why don't we do it ourselves and 10:26:36
just cut out the middle man? 10:26:39
(Laughter). 10:26:42
>>STEVE DAIGNAULT: They are getting paid for their 10:26:44
middle man work. 10:26:45
>> I understand. 10:26:47
But 50% sounds like a significant amount. 10:26:48
I mean, have we explored this with other marketing 10:26:50
companies? 10:26:54
You know, I understand -- and maybe that's not even a 10:26:57
nice thing to say since they brought it to us. 10:26:59
>>STEVE DAIGNAULT: They also have the national 10:27:01
recognition and the national contacts that we do not 10:27:03
have. 10:27:07
>>STEVE DAIGNAULT: I think 50% is a big cut. 10:27:07
I do. 10:27:18
And I'm not sure -- I'm knot not really sure exactly if 10:27:19
the benefit is worth that percentage. 10:27:25
>>> Paul: Can I speak to that point? 10:27:30
Because it's very important. 10:27:31
You get 50% of the cash from the signs. 10:27:32
And then you get a community outreach in education 10:27:35
program in the way of television and a magazine. 10:27:38
Those things have value. 10:27:40

So if the City of Tampa were to have to develop the 10:27:41
television, place it on prime time, design, 10:27:44
manufacture, maintain the sign, which we do, we do all 10:27:48
of the work. 10:27:52
>> You have to change that optional language. 10:27:57
>>> Upon law and approval we would launch television at 10:27:58
the beginning of the program. 10:28:00
A lot of times people get caught up in just the cash 10:28:04
portion. 10:28:06
And I want to say that the community outreach and 10:28:06
education program has significant value, in fact value 10:28:09
that if I gave you 100% of the money, the City of Tampa 10:28:13
could not duplicate what you're getting for free. 10:28:16
And that's why being a national corporation allows us 10:28:19
to actually give Tampa more than they would otherwise 10:28:22
get. 10:28:26
If we gave you 100%. 10:28:26
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My concern frankly is with the 10:28:30
signage. 10:28:35
I have been a long-time advocate of sign control. 10:28:35
The City of Tampa is making strides under Ms. Ferlita's 10:28:38
committee. 10:28:41
And I could see -- I would rather have ten signs that 10:28:43
we charge $1,000 for and call at day, than 200 signs or 10:28:47
100 signs. 10:28:54

I just don't want a lot of signs in this community. 10:28:55
I am not looking forward to the day when on our beaches 10:28:57
we have tonight's sunset is brought to you by X 10:29:00
corporation, because we are not going to tax ourselves 10:29:04
adequately to provide for clean beaches, and the only 10:29:07
way we are doing it is through corporations who in turn 10:29:11
lobby against additional federal taxes so they can do 10:29:15
it in this way which gets them more good PR. 10:29:17
I really am concerned about the sign proliferation. 10:29:21
It's something that's not a new theme for me. 10:29:25
I have been consistently saying this for years. 10:29:27
And the staff is saying, well, the signs than or our 10:29:30
rights-of-way. 10:29:37
Well, people can change the channel if they don't like 10:29:37
what's on TV. 10:29:40
They can turn off the computer. 10:29:41
But you can't change the road you are going down. 10:29:42
And we would be putting 250 signs that aren't there now 10:29:44
in front of our citizens. 10:29:47
And I'm not sure that the public information that 10:29:48
you're providing actually modifies people he's 10:29:52
behavior. 10:29:56
I'm very concerned about the visual pollution that this 10:29:56
program could create. 10:29:59
>>> We are not calling for 200 or 250 signs. 10:30:04

And the number of signs that would be allowed in Tampa 10:30:06
is entirely up to the City of Tampa. 10:30:09
Where they are placed is entirely up to the City of 10:30:12
Tampa. 10:30:14
I really want to make sure that you understand that I'm 10:30:14
not here to advocate that we put a sign on every corner 10:30:16
in Tampa by any means. 10:30:19
>>ROSE FERLITA: You're right, sir, it would be the city 10:30:21
who would decide how many but that's the point. 10:30:24
I agree wholeheartedly with the point Ms. Saul-Sena is 10:30:26
trying to make F.we have too few then the revenue 10:30:29
generated is not worth it. 10:30:32
If we have too many, the sign pollution issue. 10:30:34
If somebody decides to be smart alacky and tear up the 10:30:36
sign, et cetera, this is your project, how long will it 10:30:41
take for you to come in and repair the sign? 10:30:44
If code enforcement says, that's not up to us, that's 10:30:47
in the watch of this company that you have hired. 10:30:50
Awhile ago you said 12 cities. 10:30:53
Then you said 20 cities. 10:30:55
>>> I -- 10:30:57
>>: You should know. 10:30:58
>>> It's probably closer to 20 suffice. 10:30:59
>> But it's your company. 10:31:00
You should know how many. 10:31:01

Is it 12? 10:31:03
Is it 20? 10:31:04
Is it close -- which is it? I think that's another 10:31:04
thing too about the presentation. 10:31:07
Not to do with you, sir. 10:31:08
In terms of the city and its presentation. 10:31:09
Why don't you give us a list of those different 10:31:12
municipalities and let me we as elected officials here 10:31:14
call them and find out if they are happy with the 10:31:18
project, find out how it's going, et cetera, et cetera, 10:31:21
et cetera 10:31:23
Ms. Alvarez asked about where the locations would be. 10:31:26
And I think Ms. Brown said it would be city owned 10:31:28
rights-of-way. 10:31:31
I think your proposal said city owned rights-of-way and 10:31:31
certain locations on county and state roads. 10:31:34
That's a no, right, Julie? 10:31:36
Talked to Mr. Massey, Julie? 10:31:38
Yes? 10:31:40
>> No? 10:31:41
Sign location. 10:31:45
I think Ms. Alvarez said it would be exclusively in the 10:31:46
city but they say they are going to submit a list of 10:31:49
signs, city rights-of-way, certain location, county and 10:31:52
state that. Can't be. 10:31:55

JULIE BROWN: That's correct. 10:31:55
It's just city rights-of-way. 10:31:57
>> Yes or no. 10:32:01
Another thing that's important in the type of sponsor 10:32:02
and the quality of the sponsor is going to be who is 10:32:04
out there trying to promote the sponsorship. 10:32:06
Will you get local people that know who the respected 10:32:11
corporations are to be sponsors? 10:32:15
What kind of experience will they have? 10:32:17
Is it somebody from out of our area who doesn't really 10:32:19
know who the community builders are -- community 10:32:22
corporations are in terms of builders? That lobbying 10:32:26
is of concern to me because depending on who is running 10:32:29
the show there, that's going to determine the quality 10:32:31
of the person who is on the bottom of the sign, which 10:32:33
we may not like or may like. 10:32:36
>>> We are working with folks in the local area. 10:32:39
That sign installer would be a local installer that 10:32:41
would be able to quickly repair a sign if need be. 10:32:44
We are working with people locally on the ground to 10:32:49
determine which corporations to go after. 10:32:51
So we really leave to the city the number of signs, 10:32:54
where they are placed, who those corporations are. 10:33:00
We have been doing this nationally for nearly four 10:33:02
years. 10:33:04

We have never had a complaint for the number of signs, 10:33:05
the look of our signs, or a corporation that was on any 10:33:08
of those signs. 10:33:12
>>ROSE FERLITA: But that changes from municipality to 10:33:12
municipality. 10:33:16
And we have, and I know this is nothing you are 10:33:16
familiar with because you don't live here, but we have 10:33:18
a lot of code enforcement issues and a lot of them have 10:33:20
to do with signage. 10:33:23
So I don't know what your definition is with quick 10:33:24
response to repair versus our level of satisfaction for 10:33:27
you guys to repair them. 10:33:30
I mean, that's something that's subjective at this 10:33:32
point. 10:33:34
I just think rather than continue to badger the 10:33:35
speaker, and say this is not his fault, it's our fault, 10:33:37
the local government. 10:33:40
I think this is too premature. 10:33:41
Sometimes you go through pilot tests and check new 10:33:44
things out. 10:33:46
I would rather not be the 21st. 10:33:47
I'd rather be maybe the 400th municipality that 10:33:49
does this. 10:33:52
I know that we are struggling to find different sources 10:33:52
of revenue but this one has some things that need to be 10:33:57

worked out. 10:33:58
And I am just not in support of it. 10:33:59
I'm appreciative that you have represented what your 10:34:01
company does. 10:34:03
But I just don't think it's a good thing for where we 10:34:03
are trying to go with the looks of this city. 10:34:07
>>SHAWN HARRISON: I want to take a different approach. 10:34:13
I think that one thing that we all agree with is we 10:34:15
don't have enough money in this city to do the things 10:34:19
that we need to do. 10:34:22
We just tripled stormwater fees for every man, woman 10:34:23
and child and business in this city. 10:34:27
It's not even going to come close to addressing what 10:34:28
our needs are. 10:34:33
And if we have a private entity that wants to come in 10:34:34
and put these up, and we are going to get some revenue 10:34:37
out of that -- and it's not an insubstantial amount of 10:34:43
revenue. 10:34:47
It's not a lot. 10:34:47
But it's better than what we are getting now, which is 10:34:48
zero. 10:34:51
You know, by my calculations this is maybe 180, 10:34:51
$200,000 a year in cash. 10:34:54
Let's focus on the cash for now because I understand 10:34:58
you keep saying the free advertising and things like 10:35:01

that, which is very important. 10:35:04
But think about what we could do with that. 10:35:04
I mean, I don't think that we could probably buy a 10:35:07
whole lot of fancy cleaning equipment that would clean 10:35:10
up the river. 10:35:13
But what we could do is we could employ some young 10:35:14
people, we could get some people working out there to 10:35:16
help clean up these areas that aren't currently 10:35:22
working. 10:35:25
We raise a bit of our profile here to show that we are 10:35:28
being proactive, and we are being innovative about ways 10:35:32
to try to solve this problem. 10:35:36
Rather than just continuing to raise fees and taxes, 10:35:37
which is the wrong approach. 10:35:40
So I think that it is an innovative idea. 10:35:43
Mr. Dingfelder says that, well, why can't we just do it 10:35:47
ourselves? 10:35:50
Let's be realistic, that's not going to happen. 10:35:51
We are not going to go out and invent this program and 10:35:54
create signs and go out and find locations and do that 10:35:56
kind of stuff. 10:35:59
Our stormwater people, our water department, those guys 10:36:01
are taxed already. 10:36:04
And they don't need to become marketing experts. 10:36:05
You have the expertise to do it. 10:36:08

I don't see any reason why we shouldn't give it a try. 10:36:10
It's a five-year program. 10:36:13
If we don't like it, at the end of five years, it's 10:36:15
done. 10:36:18
And I don't know, I haven't read the contract, but I 10:36:18
would hope that we have some escape clauses built into 10:36:21
the contract so that if you start picking businesses to 10:36:24
advertise that, you know, we may say, whoa, now, you're 10:36:29
not a local boy, and this is maybe not something that 10:36:33
we want to be promoting, we can say, hey, that's not a 10:36:36
good idea. 10:36:39
And if you continue it, we are going to yank the 10:36:40
contract. 10:36:42
So I see no harm whatsoever in trying this. 10:36:43
The benefit to come from it to me is worth 125 10:36:48
locations to add to our sign problems. 10:36:53
If you take a drive-through this city right now, we 10:36:56
have sign issues on top of sign issues. 10:37:00
125 more isn't going to make a dent in the problem. 10:37:03
And we are going to be actually getting revenue out of. 10:37:07
This so I see no reason not to support this. 10:37:10
>>KEVIN WHITE: I agree with both of my colleagues on 10:37:13
certain areas. 10:37:21
One, Ms. Ferlita and the timing issue continues to be 10:37:23
an issue. 10:37:26

I take exception with this one, when Mr. Walter called 10:37:29
me on yesterday, we spoke very briefly about this 10:37:33
issue. 10:37:37
And I thought this was one of the more positive issues 10:37:38
that has come before us as what I would consider 10:37:42
last-minute-type thing. 10:37:45
And as far as the revenue stream, not costing the city 10:37:49
anything, not costing our taxpayers anything, and for 10:37:51
once someone coming to provide a service for us, and to 10:37:55
give us money, that's a precedent that's relatively 10:37:59
unheard of in the City of Tampa. 10:38:02
And not to minimize the time and effort that Ms. 10:38:05
Ferlita and her committee and the sign committee and 10:38:12
any of the time that Ms. Saul-Sena has put in on that 10:38:15
as well, we do have some sign issues within the City of 10:38:19
Tampa. 10:38:21
I don't know whether the administration is going to 10:38:23
weigh in on the design phase, the size, or maybe if the 10:38:29
administration would like to involve the sign committee 10:38:33
in designing the signs. 10:38:35
I don't know. 10:38:38
That may be something they may want to look at. 10:38:38
But I am all for anything that any private sector is 10:38:41
willing to do for the citizens, the taxpayers to come 10:38:47
in and not ask the taxpayers to do anything out of 10:38:50

their pocket to help enhance any city subsidized 10:38:54
program that's not going to cost us any money and is 10:38:58
going to enhance or beautify the city in any manner. 10:39:01
And even though this is short-term, short notice, you 10:39:05
have my support on this issue. 10:39:09
>>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Alvarez. 10:39:10
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Thank you. 10:39:15
Yes, this was short notice. 10:39:16
But I think that the program is good. 10:39:18
I like the idea that we are not having to put any money 10:39:21
out. 10:39:24
I think that $180,000 a year to sell all the signs is a 10:39:26
lot of money but the city could certainly use it and it 10:39:33
will help improve the waterways, it will help with the 10:39:35
grants, it will help with the program we have with 10:39:40
stormwater. 10:39:42
So I certainly will support this. 10:39:42
Thank you. 10:39:44
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think that one of our key players 10:39:45
in the City of Tampa is T.H.A.N., Tampa homeowners 10:39:51
association of neighborhoods, and if council is just 10:39:57
hearing about this I dare say they have not -- have you 10:40:01
communicated with our neighborhoods about this 10:40:04
proposal? 10:40:05
>>> Paul: No, I have not, although the sign 10:40:07

neighborhoods are for high traffic neighborhoods and 10:40:10
not to be in any residential neighborhoods. 10:40:12
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What I would like to propose is we 10:40:15
put off this discussion for two weeks which will allow 10:40:16
for T.H.A.N. to be made aware of this and for us to 10:40:20
scrutinize the locations and talk with our constituents 10:40:24
about the trade-off because this isn't free money, 10:40:26
guys. This is a trade-off, a visual pollution for 10:40:28
money to meet our stormwater needs, which we are all 10:40:32
very concerned about meeting our needs but I think we 10:40:34
need a chance to hear from our constituents, how they 10:40:37
feel about this trade-off. 10:40:40
My motion would be to defer a decision on this for two 10:40:41
weeks. 10:40:44
>>GWEN MILLER: It's already pulled. 10:40:48
>> Has it been rescheduled? 10:40:49
>>GWEN MILLER: No. 10:40:50
Ding. 10:40:51
>>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Daignault, you are pulling number 10:40:56
18, correct? 10:41:02
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Just pulled for discussion. 10:41:05
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I want to second Ms. Saul-Sena's 10:41:08
motion for two-week continuance. 10:41:11
You say what you want to say but I want to follow up. 10:41:13
>>KEVIN WHITE: The only thing I wanted to say was I 10:41:15

don't feel a two-week continuance just to let T.H.A.N. 10:41:17
involved -- if we are going only given a day I don't 10:41:21
see giving T.H.A.N. two weeks. 10:41:32
I think this body is a little more important than that 10:41:34
body in this particular situation and I think we we 10:41:37
were only given a day's notice. 10:41:39
I think we ought to be able to move on with this one 10:41:40
way or the other. 10:41:43
Just my sentiment. 10:41:44
>>ROSE FERLITA: Mr. Dingfelder, you heard Mr. White's 10:41:45
comments. 10:41:48
Go ahead and make yours. 10:41:48
I'd like to follow you if the chairman would allow. 10:41:49
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: A couple of things. 10:41:51
I know there's nobody on this council that would enter 10:41:54
into a contract where the other party says, you know, 10:41:57
just trust me, and it's optional. 10:41:59
And I keep going back to that 2.3 (C) which says that. 10:42:02
It's an optional provision. 10:42:08
You know, we might provide additional media. 10:42:10
If any of you have been very impressed with the 10:42:15
additional media that they say they are going to 10:42:17
provide, which is one reason I supported the motion for 10:42:19
continuance. 10:42:24
I think our legal department needs to come back and 10:42:25

tighten that up so it's a requirement. 10:42:28
Now if it has certain threshold, that's fine. 10:42:29
But it has to be a requirement. 10:42:32
It can't just be an option of this for-profit company 10:42:33
with, all due respect to this gentleman. 10:42:37
The other reason I supported a two-week continuance is 10:42:41
in support of Ms. Saul-Sena -- Ms. Ferlita, excuse me. 10:42:44
Ms. Ferlita indicated she hasn't had a chance to fully 10:42:48
review the contract, and its ramifications as related 10:42:50
to her sign committee, that she's been working very 10:42:54
hard at, and I respect that. 10:42:56
That's an important -- that's an issue she's been 10:42:58
working hard on, it's important to her. 10:43:01
>> To all of us. 10:43:05
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: For all of us. 10:43:06
Out of deference to that request I think a two week 10:43:07
request is pro tem. 10:43:11
Time is not necessarily of the essence and two 10:43:13
additional weeks is not a big deal. 10:43:15
>>ROSE FERLITA: Do you want to respond? 10:43:16
>>KEVIN WHITE: Responding to Ms. Saul-Sena's motion, a 10:43:20
two-week continuance is not necessarily a problem for 10:43:24
me. 10:43:27
I was going to say fountain was just to delay us for 10:43:27
two weeks just to involve T.H.A.N., then aid problem 10:43:30

with that. 10:43:32
>>ROSE FERLITA: And no, it's not, Kevin. 10:43:33
Because while we are using the two weeks to inform them 10:43:35
and other citizens that are concerned, it's also two 10:43:38
weeks for to us do the research. 10:43:40
John, I appreciate your Curt he is by the sign 10:43:41
committee, realizing that it is on-site, but still it's 10:43:43
signs and what we are doing to minimize sign pollution, 10:43:47
et cetera. 10:43:50
In those two weeks, while the administration has the 10:43:51
opportunity to present it to the leadership of 10:43:54
T.H.A.N., so too do we have two weeks to look at it. 10:43:56
We have had issues about signage, et cetera. 10:43:59
I'd like to talk to people like the downtown corridor 10:44:01
like Christine Burdick, and different areas of 10:44:05
leadership in the city, west -- Westshore. 10:44:08
And there we go again. 10:44:11
If I know that Ms. Advise I resigns from my committee, 10:44:12
I don't know that -- if I know that Ron Rotella resigns 10:44:16
from my committee I know I have a problem. 10:44:19
Julia Cole was doing something that's very important 10:44:21
and she's going to go have a baby. 10:44:23
If we continue to be disrespectful in the information 10:44:25
process, that's not a good thing. 10:44:28
Like John said, nine months kicking it around, two 10:44:30

weeks is not a big deal and that gives us all time to 10:44:33
do some investigations. 10:44:35
I agree, I do want to comment on something that Mr. 10:44:37
Harrison said. 10:44:39
And you're right, we don't ever want to turn our back 10:44:40
on revenue that's going to help any of our departments. 10:44:43
But somewhere between the methodology of the stormwater 10:44:45
increase, which I didn't support and I think that's 10:44:49
very loud and clear, and this, I think there are other 10:44:51
ways to fine-line our budget and maybe do more 10:44:54
efficient business practices to get some revenue but 10:44:59
I'm not sure that putting the signs out there is the 10:45:01
way I would go in terms of additional revenue for 10:45:03
stormwater. 10:45:05
That being said, the two weeks is fine. 10:45:07
I am going to support that motion. 10:45:09
In addition to which some of us started on October 10:45:10
20th when I asked Mr. Walter to please respond to 10:45:13
me about what revenues were used for the boat and in 10:45:16
spotlight Tampa and where the revenue was coming from 10:45:22
to pay for the salaries of the staff that was manning. 10:45:25
I I still don't think I got that. He referenced it in 10:45:28
a paragraph, but we are still on that subject. 10:45:31
And Mr. Walter, if you are not too busy, I'll give you 10:45:33
another week. 10:45:36

Maybe in a week you can tell me where we got the money 10:45:37
to boy that boat. 10:45:40
And if you sent to the me I sure don't see it on this 10:45:41
one page. 10:45:43
That's a separate request. 10:45:44
And I don't need to make a motion for that. 10:45:45
Ms. Saul-Sena, I'll support your motion unless somebody 10:45:48
else has something. 10:45:50
>>GWEN MILLER: I have a question. 10:45:50
You said your company would put up the sign, or would 10:45:52
you have someone locally to put the signs up? 10:45:54
>>> Paul: We contract with a local installer. 10:45:57
Our process is 3-M certified front to back which gives 10:45:59
us access to a group of installers nationwide that are 10:46:02
certified, and that installer would have to be 10:46:07
acceptable to the city and have all the insurance 10:46:10
requirements that we have to meet all those insurance 10:46:13
standards. 10:46:17
>> So you can't do it locally. 10:46:17
>>> Somebody locally will do that but that local 10:46:19
installer will have to be an approved installer by the 10:46:21
city. 10:46:25
They'll have to meet your standards. 10:46:26
So we would come to you and say, here are three local 10:46:28
installers, you know, which one do you like? 10:46:31

>>ROSE FERLITA: I'm glad you asked that question too. 10:46:37
The more we talk the more we need answers. 10:46:39
What does the contract say? 10:46:41
I guess Ms. Brown can fast forward it for me. 10:46:43
That's going to come out of our 50% and his 50%, right? 10:46:46
>>> No, no, no. 10:46:50
>> You're paying for all of that? 10:46:51
>>> That does not come out of your -- 10:46:53
>>: So where does 50% of the profit without any cost 10:46:55
involved. 10:46:58
>>> Virtually no cost what so far. 10:46:59
>>ROSE FERLITA: Okay. 10:47:01
JULIE BROWN: The city does not have final approval of 10:47:01
the subcontractor he picks for the signs. 10:47:04
It's not -- and we don't determine if we like one or 10:47:07
the other. 10:47:11
So it's not -- that's not written in the contract 10:47:12
specifically. 10:47:14
>>ROSE FERLITA: He does that. It has nothing to do 10:47:14
with how we select our vendors. 10:47:18
>>GWEN MILLER: Might need to put that in there. 10:47:20
Since we have two weeks to do it can we add that in 10:47:22
there? 10:47:24
>>> Paul: What we do is go out and contract with a 10:47:26
local installer who typically is doing something in the 10:47:29

city already. 10:47:31
We are looking for a contract theory already has the 10:47:31
knowledge in the local community, who is already 10:47:34
putting up signs, that's already approved by the city. 10:47:36
Those are the kinds of contractors. 10:47:39
>>ROSE FERLITA: While you are doing that in terms of 10:47:41
information can you also provide us in the next week, I 10:47:44
guess to Mr. Daignault or Mr. Walter, the list of the 10:47:46
different cities that are in your program already? 10:47:49
>>> Absolutely. 10:47:51
I provided those to the city, and our references were 10:47:51
checked. 10:47:55
In the nearly four years we have been in business we 10:47:55
have been scrutinized by Congress, by USEPA, by the 10:47:57
national oceanic, by state DEPs around the country, 10:48:01
by the leading advocacy groups in the country. 10:48:09
We have been thoroughly checked out and meet the 10:48:12
approval and are supported by -- 10:48:14
>>ROSE FERLITA: Don't think that our conversation today 10:48:18
has anything to do with the reputablability of your 10:48:19
company. 10:48:26
It's about the information that was given to us. 10:48:26
You say you provided the city with the different 10:48:27
names -- 10:48:29
And the city has checked our references. 10:48:30

>>ROSE FERLITA: Steve, have you provided that and I 10:48:33
missed that as well? 10:48:35
It's a big document. 10:48:36
So that we can maybe check between 4:00 and yesterday 10:48:38
and 8:00. 10:48:42
>>STEVE DAIGNAULT: If it's not in there we will provide 10:48:44
that. 10:48:46
>>GWEN MILLER: Council, we need to move on our agenda. 10:48:46
Ms. Alvarez, Mr. Harrison. 10:48:52
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Did you go to the county with this 10:48:55
proposal? 10:48:57
>>> I have not been to the county. 10:48:58
>> Are you planning on it? 10:48:59
>>> No, not at this time, I have not. 10:49:01
>>SHAWN HARRISON: I just want to talk to the 10:49:04
continuance. 10:49:05
I am not going to support it. 10:49:06
I think I know enough about it, which might not ab 10:49:07
great deal but I have enough trust in our 10:49:09
administration and in our legal department, that they 10:49:12
have negotiate add deal that is not a bad deal for us, 10:49:15
we have got provisions in there where we can get out of 10:49:18
the contract, if we don't like the way it's going, and 10:49:21
I don't want to come back here in two weeks and start 10:49:24
micromanaging a map of the city with 125 sign locations 10:49:29

on it. 10:49:33
That is up to the administration. 10:49:33
We have had some legitimate concerns about having -- 10:49:36
being included in large-scale policy decisions with the 10:49:40
administration. 10:49:43
That is our role. 10:49:45
Our role is not to micromanage what are basically 10:49:46
ministerial functions of the administration. 10:49:51
And I don't think that coming back here in two weeks 10:49:54
and spending an hour trying to negotiate sign locations 10:49:57
is going to be productive for us at all. 10:50:01
So I don't support the continuance. 10:50:03
Let's vote it up or down right now and move onto the 10:50:04
next thing on our agenda. 10:50:07
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Call for the question. 10:50:08
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ms. Saul-Sena, it's your motion. 10:50:12
Is it your intent that this council is going to 10:50:15
micromanage and look at 125 sign locations and decide 10:50:17
which ones we like and don't like? 10:50:21
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It's my -- 10:50:24
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Will do it. 10:50:25
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: To decide whether or not we like 10:50:32
this concept at all. 10:50:34
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And in two weeks talk to people and 10:50:35
see what they think. 10:50:37

>>GWEN MILLER: Not to micromanage anything. 10:50:38
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Call for the question. 10:50:41
>>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second. 10:50:43
To continue item number 18 for two weeks. 10:50:45
All in favor of that motion say Aye. 10:50:48
Opposed, Nay. 10:50:50
>>THE CLERK: (off microphone). 10:50:50
>> Motion carried. 10:51:00
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I still have a problem with that 10:51:00
paragraph. 10:51:02
I don't know what legal is going to do about it. 10:51:02
But I think that paragraph is wrong. 10:51:05
Mr. Harrison, have you seen that paragraph? 10:51:06
>>SHAWN HARRISON: No, I have not seen the paragraph. 10:51:08
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: It's optional. 10:51:10
Even the vendor indicated it's optional. 10:51:14
>>SHAWN HARRISON: Then what we do is say, all right, 10:51:15
vendor, we don't like your options, get your signs and 10:51:18
get out of town. 10:51:20
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: No, at this time media. 10:51:21
>>SHAWN HARRISON: I understand. 10:51:24
But if we don't like the way this contract is 10:51:25
progressing, if we don't like it, if you say it's their 10:51:27
option, if it's totally one-sided and we are not liking 10:51:30
the way it's going -- 10:51:33

>>JOHN DINGFELDER: It's a five-year agreement. 10:51:37
We can't cut and run. 10:51:39
My point is it's optional. 10:51:40
He's saying we will provide the media but we don't have 10:51:43
to because that's what the paragraph says I'm just 10:51:46
saying send it back to legal. 10:51:50
Let them tweak up that paragraph and bring it back 10:51:51
whenever you want to bring it back. 10:51:53
They can bring it back tonight. 10:51:55
>>ROSE FERLITA: Madam Chairman, just a comment back to 10:51:58
you, John. 10:52:01
Or anybody else who wants to listen. 10:52:01
This is not any different than other times when we have 10:52:03
asked for a continuance. 10:52:07
I think John has a very good point. 10:52:08
We don't say get your signs and get out of town. 10:52:09
We are saying two weeks. 10:52:12
Legal, you have heard the concerns of some of the 10:52:13
council members. 10:52:16
Some of the council members are okay with it. 10:52:17
If in two weeks is better and is acceptable to those of 10:52:19
us who are not accepting it today we vote it up or 10:52:23
down. 10:52:26
But John is pointing out terminology he doesn't like. 10:52:26
Ms. Saul-Sena doesn't like. 10:52:29

I have been certainly been verbal about what I don't 10:52:31
like. 10:52:32
In two weeks if the presentation of what you present to 10:52:33
us in a timely-' don't bring it to us two weeks from 10:52:36
now on Wednesday night. 10:52:39
If there's changes in the contract let us have it 10:52:39
before Wednesday, Thursday's council. 10:52:41
Are you looking at me? 10:52:44
Okay. 10:52:46
At that point if there's some changes that are good, 10:52:46
vote for it or against it. 10:52:49
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I need to ask Mr. Daignault a 10:52:50
question. 10:52:53
Steve, have you seen the paragraph I'm talking about? 10:52:55
>>STEVE DAIGNAULT: I'm familiar with what you're 10:52:59
talking about. 10:53:00
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm requesting that the 10:53:00
administration, you and legal, look at that paragraph 10:53:02
and make it tighter. 10:53:07
Because right now, it's at their option to provide the 10:53:08
additional media which was part of the sales package. 10:53:11
It's at their option. 10:53:15
What kind of contract is that? 10:53:16
>>STEVE DAIGNAULT: If it's the pleasure of the council, 10:53:18
we'll tweak it up. 10:53:21

>>GWEN MILLER: Can you put a note about the signs be 10:53:22
put up? 10:53:28
>>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Yes. 10:53:29
>>GWEN MILLER: We now go to Mr. Thom Snelling. 10:53:30
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thom, you want to follow that? 10:54:04
>>THOM SNELLING: 10:54:07
Land Development Coordination. 10:54:21
I'm here to talk briefly on item number 43, which 10:54:22
actually has been a long time in coming, as you know. 10:54:28
This is a proposal to rename 18th Avenue between 10:54:32
east 2nd -- I'm sorry, 18th street between east 10:54:38
2nd Avenue and interstate 4. 10:54:43
You can see highlighted in the red area there. 10:54:46
From 18th street to angel OLIVA, Sr. street. 10:54:49
There's a lot. 10:54:54
There was a great deal of community support from 10:54:55
numerous articles in the newspaper. 10:54:58
The original sponsors of this were councilwoman Ferlita 10:54:59
and councilwoman Alvarez. 10:55:04
They both brought this, and had contacted both of them 10:55:06
about doing this. 10:55:10
This is the first street that we are doing following 10:55:13
the process that council had talked about and agreed 10:55:15
to, you know, many months ago about finding a sponsor, 10:55:18
looking at all the various impacts. 10:55:22

One of the primary reasons I support the name change as 10:55:27
well is that the area that you're looking at is very 10:55:32
contained, and has a very definite beginning stage and 10:55:36
very definite ending point. 10:55:39
Mr. OLIVA, the work that you see in the handout as well 10:55:42
as what you got in the agenda, he did help make Tampa 10:55:47
cigar capital of the world. 10:55:52
His cigar factory is located right here, which is 10:55:53
immediately adjacent to the street that we are 10:55:58
proposing to rename for him. 10:56:00
And there's only 18 addresses total there that would 10:56:02
have to change. 10:56:07
That is virtually an insignificant number of addresses 10:56:08
given that you are going the other direction, if you 10:56:11
see the other buildings are oriented, they are all 10:56:13
oriented in north-south which had their addresses on 10:56:15
the Avenues versus the streets. 10:56:18
Just from this block to this block there are 20 10:56:21
addresses there, just to give you perspective of how 10:56:24
few people are actually being affected by this. 10:56:27
It in the heart of Ybor City. 10:56:30
The man is a historical figure. 10:56:33
And that's my presentation. 10:56:37
I'll answer any questions you may have. 10:56:39
I know that you have all been contacted by the OLIVA 10:56:41

family at some time or another. 10:56:46
What we are hoping if this goes through on first 10:56:48
reading is to invite the OLIVA family and any other 10:56:50
interested people to be present for the second reading 10:56:53
an actual adoption of the street name, and do a more 10:56:55
flowery kind of presentation, I guess if you will, at 10:57:01
that point. 10:57:04
>>ROSE FERLITA: Mr. Snelling, just very quickly, and 10:57:04
first, obviously, thank you. 10:57:08
This has gone on for a good while. 10:57:09
And I know there were lots of things you had to work 10:57:12
with in terms of methods, how we were going to do this, 10:57:14
et cetera, et cetera. 10:57:18
I know that this sets at least a criteria for things 10:57:19
coming forward after this. 10:57:22
I just want to follow up on one of your comments. 10:57:24
It not like we picked the OLIVA family because I know 10:57:26
John or somebody, et cetera. 10:57:30
You are right, the criteria is there about some 10:57:32
founding fathers that had to do with a very important 10:57:34
historical area of our city. 10:57:37
Obviously the family should be proud. 10:57:39
But as well, I'm happy that we are part of this process 10:57:40
because I can't think of a better way to say thanks to 10:57:44
people that were pioneers in our society, and the OLIVA 10:57:46

family, in particular Mr. OLIVA is an exemplary 10:57:50
individual that did that. 10:57:56
>>THOM SNELLING: When we looked at this, this is like 10:57:57
the poster child of how to do it, in my opinion. 10:58:01
It's located in the historic district. The gentleman 10:58:04
is a historic figure. 10:58:06
The business is a historic figure. 10:58:07
It had everything to do with putting Tampa on the map. 10:58:09
It's in the heart of Ybor City. 10:58:12
It's right next door to the cigar factory. The reasons 10:58:13
go on and on and on in my opinion why it's so apropos. 10:58:17
>> I second. 10:58:23
(Motion carried) 10:58:23
>>THE CLERK: May I ask who the maker of the motion is? 10:58:30
I need to know what the motion was. 10:58:32
>>GWEN MILLER: Who made the motion? 10:58:34
>>ROSE FERLITA: I'll be happy to make it. 10:58:39
>>GWEN MILLER: We'll read them in the committee 10:58:41
reports. 10:58:46
>>ROSE FERLITA: That's fine. 10:58:46
Madam Chairman, I know this is a little bit out of 10:58:47
order but if you allow me to while Mr. Snelling is 10:58:51
here, all that praise was for a purpose. 10:58:53
No good deed goes unpunished. 10:58:56
I just want to read something here. 10:58:58

And then this willco kind of substantiate why I am 10:59:01
asking you to look at this. 10:59:03
And we need to take our time as well because it's going 10:59:04
to be a little more difficult to do. 10:59:07
ROSA parks became a catalyst for civil rights movement 10:59:12
that began when Parks helped close a door on an ugly 10:59:17
chapter in American history. 10:59:20
All those who participated in civil rights movements 10:59:22
can take credit for historic achievement but Rosa Parks 10:59:23
singular role in launching that crusade makes her a 10:59:29
true American hero. I think her position in terms of 10:59:31
civil rights movements is again exemplary of an 10:59:35
individual who is star in terms of what she did and 10:59:38
believed in, in a good way. 10:59:42
And I think that would be somebody who we need to look 10:59:44
at to name a Street or Avenue after. 10:59:47
I would like to make that in the form of a motion and 10:59:50
give you ample time because I think this is going to be 10:59:52
harder to do, Thom. 10:59:55
But I think given all the literature that we have read 10:59:56
and the newspaper commendations of Rosa Parks, it would 10:59:59
sure be my pleasure to move a motion to do something to 11:00:03
honor what she did for civil rights. 11:00:08
>> Second. 11:00:12
(Motion carried). 11:00:12

>>ROSE FERLITA: Thom, maybe we can get together and 11:00:17
talk about what the different opportunities are. 11:00:19
>>THOM SNELLING: And I think you're right, I think the 11:00:21
stature of this woman is going to want to have a lot of 11:00:24
people involved. 11:00:27
>>ROSE FERLITA: You and I can get together and 11:00:27
everybody else can come on board because I know there 11:00:35
will be a lot of people who will support this. 11:00:36
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Thom. 11:00:38
Item number 3. 11:00:41
Item 1. 11:00:44
Does anybody know if Cindy Miller came over? 11:00:46
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: She asked for this to be put off 11:00:51
till the beginning of December and I would be happy to 11:00:53
do that. 11:00:55
But there's another corollary issue. 11:00:55
The good news is that the public schools putting this 11:00:59
out for proposals and hopefully someone will buy it and 11:01:03
fix it up. 11:01:05
The Gary neighborhood does not have an organized 11:01:06
neighborhood association so it doesn't have one of 11:01:08
those great markers that say you're in Gary 11:01:10
neighborhood. 11:01:12
But it is truly one of our most historic neighborhoods. 11:01:13
So I would like to move that we request that a 11:01:16

neighborhood marker be placed -- to say this is the 11:01:19
Gary neighborhood, even though it's not initial 11:01:24
greated -- initiated by the neighborhood organization 11:01:26
because there isn't one. 11:01:28
>>ROSE FERLITA: It's an old Tampa neighborhood. 11:01:29
>> Second. 11:01:34
(Motion carried). 11:01:34
>>GWEN MILLER: You say Ms. Miller wants it continued? 11:01:36
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: To December 1st. 11:01:39
I got a memo. 11:01:40
>>THE CLERK: It was sent over yesterday. 11:01:41
Number 1. 11:01:44
>>GWEN MILLER: Need a motion. 11:01:45
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved. 11:01:46
>> Second. 11:01:48
(Motion carried) 11:01:48
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Are you here for item 2? 11:01:48
>>GWEN MILLER: On item number 2? 11:01:54
Mr. Massey. 11:01:58
>>MORRIS MASSEY: Legal department. 11:01:58
Pursuant to City Council's motion last week, I 11:02:00
submitted to the city clerk and to all of you all 11:02:02
yesterday morning a revised resolution and revised 11:02:05
second amendment to the lease between the city of 11:02:08
attorney and the children's museum of Tampa, Inc., 11:02:11

which reduce it is time frame for the extension from 24 11:02:14
months to 12 months. 11:02:23
So now it shows we are giving a 12 month extension 11:02:23
that. Is the only change that was made. 11:02:27
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Refresh my memory. 11:02:28
I'm sorry, Madam Chair. 11:02:32
Refresh my memory. 11:02:34
What happened on the discussion about the wee dedidn't 11:02:35
change if geography? 11:02:40
>>MORRIS MASSEY: No, sir. 11:02:42
That motion did not get supported last week. 11:02:43
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you. 11:02:45
>>THE CLERK: I have not received any revised ordinance. 11:02:46
>>GWEN MILLER: Do we have a revised -- 11:02:50
>>MORRIS MASSEY: My secretary supposedly brought it 11:02:53
down to you. 11:02:55
I will go upstairs and get tout immediately if she has 11:02:56
not. 11:02:59
>>GWEN MILLER: We'll hold that and come back to it. 11:02:59
>>KEVIN WHITE: He's got it. 11:03:02
>>GWEN MILLER: Oh, he has it. 11:03:04
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved. 11:03:18
>> Second. 11:03:19
>>MARTIN SHELBY: That was on number 2. 11:03:19
>>GWEN MILLER: 2, yes. 11:03:22

>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I am going vote against this, just 11:03:24
on the basis that I think the geography needed to be 11:03:26
changed. 11:03:29
As I stated last time. 11:03:30
That's why I'm voting against it, no. 11:03:31
>>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion say Aye. 11:03:35
Opposed, Nay. 11:03:37
>>THE CLERK: Dingfelder, no. 11:03:37
>>ROSE FERLITA: Isn't it nice to disagree politely? 11:03:40
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I try. 11:03:44
>>MARTIN SHELBY: Item 3 was an item removed from the 11:03:47
pending calendar placed on last week's agenda, did not 11:03:49
get the required number of votes so is back before 11:03:54
council today pursuant to council rules. 11:03:56
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: We probably should get everybody 11:04:02
here. 11:04:04
>>THE CLERK: Saul-Sena and Dingfelder voted no at the 11:04:04
time. 11:04:09
>>GWEN MILLER: We will hold that until we get two more 11:04:09
council members. 11:04:13
We go to item number 4. 11:04:13
>>THE CLERK: I have received a resolution for the 11:04:15
appointments to the Davis Islands. 11:04:20
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's my motion. 11:04:22
I'll move the resolution to appoint these fine people 11:04:24

to continue their work on the task force. 11:04:27
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second. 11:04:29
(Motion carried) 11:04:31
>>GWEN MILLER: At this time we go to request for 11:04:32
reconsiderations. 11:04:36
Is there anyone in the public that would like to 11:04:36
request for reconsideration? 11:04:38
>>> Michael Horner: Good morning. 11:04:50
Michael Horner, agent for the Richmond group of 11:04:56
Florida. 11:04:59
We were here last Thursday night. 11:05:00
There was a vote of 5-1 taken in denial of a request 11:05:01
for a PD to PD for multifamily apartments. 11:05:04
At that time, I read the transcript, reviewed the 11:05:07
meeting minutes, the videotape, and it appears that 11:05:12
some serious questions of conflict and concern, and 11:05:13
misrepresentations perhaps, confused council on some of 11:05:17
those discussions, to wit -- and I filed my letter and 11:05:20
faxed it to you, Madam Chairman. 11:05:24
I believe, Mrs. Saul-Sena, you stated on the record you 11:05:26
in fact were aware or believed that the hearing for 11:05:29
golf range on that parcel was the only use that was 11:05:31
approved, which was in conflict with the record before 11:05:34
you on Thursday night. 11:05:37
I believe a broker spoke and indicated that that 11:05:39

hearing did approve the CI uses. 11:05:42
In fact you made a comment about it being air 11:05:44
conditioned. 11:05:46
In fact it was the only use that you recall being 11:05:46
approved, which is not the case. 11:05:48
It was in fact zoned CI for warehouse uses. 11:05:50
The other issue that was raised in the public record on 11:05:54
Thursday was a concern about the EPC, now allowing for 11:05:57
uplands as opposed to the wetlands. 11:06:02
That was a considerate matter that I think council was 11:06:04
influenced by. 11:06:07
In fact Ms. Lamboy got up and spoke and said, as a 11:06:08
matter of fact, she tried to speak to EPC to speak to 11:06:11
that and they did not return her phone call, which 11:06:15
meant that we had no way of confirming that before you, 11:06:17
and that's why the tree preservation went to the 11:06:19
percentage of saving versus the percentage of 11:06:22
withdrawal. 11:06:25
The other issue that I recall under that conflict of 11:06:25
testimony was the traffic generation and the flood 11:06:29
storage. 11:06:33
As you will recall, we provided factual testimony on 11:06:33
the record that we were presenting and generating less 11:06:35
traffic during the peak hour, less traffic during the 11:06:38
ADT periods and the Lincoln pass, as well as less 11:06:40

drainage by us providing for ponds as opposed to the 11:06:44
approved CI warehouse uses. 11:06:46
I think that was misconstrued perhaps, except Mr. 11:06:49
Dingfelder closed the comment by saying I believe that 11:06:53
might be the case. 11:06:55
And lastly, a procedural matter, Madam Chair, as I 11:06:56
recall, that after initial start of our presentation we 11:06:59
had to entertain two questions on access and then the 11:07:03
tree preservation, and Ms. Saul-Sena, and then we were 11:07:08
asked to sit down and we had very little time to 11:07:11
present our case experts on traffic and flooding. 11:07:14
My client does nothing but tree preservation. 11:07:16
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: For the record, Mike, I asked you if 11:07:18
you might want to consider that, and you said that 11:07:22
would be fine, and you reserved for rebuttal. 11:07:25
So I don't think I forced you to sit down. 11:07:29
Everybody was tired. 11:07:31
Anyway. 11:07:32
>>> Absolutely, Mr. Dingfelder. 11:07:34
I respect that comment. 11:07:35
My clients have done several projects in this town. 11:07:36
And I think Ms. Saul-Sena you know the grand oaks 11:07:40
project where we saved 25 grand oak trees. 11:07:43
We do the environmental sensitivity studies up front 11:07:45
before we do -- and saved the Robles house as well. 11:07:48

So the question of tree preservation was a personal one 11:07:52
for my clients who take environmental sensitivity very 11:07:55
seriously. The second issue, Ms. Ferlita, I think you 11:07:57
indicated it was perhaps an opportunity for a threat or 11:08:00
availed threat that my clients were throwing out the 11:08:04
CI. 11:08:07
And I completely understand the context in which that 11:08:07
was issued. 11:08:10
Really, I understand that. 11:08:11
But there are backup contract for this property -- 11:08:12
>>ROSE FERLITA: Although you understand that, let me 11:08:16
rephrase what you think I meant when I said that. 11:08:17
I'm saying, I think I said I am tired of listening to 11:08:21
what can and can't be at any particular site 11:08:25
generically, because that confuses what we are looking 11:08:28
at, that particular evening or morning. 11:08:31
I know that sometimes if we don't approve something, 11:08:33
sir, there are 20 other things that are appropriate for 11:08:36
that site as well. 11:08:38
But I don't like to look at voting for this based on 11:08:39
what could be there if I don't say yes to this. 11:08:43
So that was just a generic comment in terms of my 11:08:46
position, in terms of my philosophy, and just for the 11:08:48
record, nothing to do with your particular project. 11:08:50
And I hope you understand that. 11:08:53

>>> Fair enough. 11:08:56
>>ROSE FERLITA: Okay. 11:08:56
Go ahead. 11:08:58
>>> In closing, my clients have also converted the 11:08:59
warehouse distribution facility on east Hillsborough 11:09:01
Avenue which is the old Winn-Dixie storage facility, 11:09:04
460,000 square feet, and now you drive by and you see 11:09:07
that as a community under construction with parks, 11:09:10
fountains and trees, where in fact there is none. 11:09:13
And Mr. White, you are certainly familiar with that. 11:09:15
That being said, we think there's significant confusion 11:09:19
on the record based on the facts that were at that 11:09:22
presentation. 11:09:24
And your decisions based perhaps on that misinformed 11:09:24
factual circumstances. 11:09:29
We ask for your reconsideration. 11:09:30
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Question. 11:09:32
>>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder. 11:09:33
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: So the project that you're proposing 11:09:34
today on reconsideration has not changed from the 11:09:38
project that we heard the other night. 11:09:42
You're just clarifying? 11:09:44
>>> I don't have the ability to change that for the 11:09:46
reconsideration. 11:09:50
>> Sometimes people do. 11:09:50

Sometimes people come back and in reconsideration and 11:09:51
say we heard the neighborhood concerns, and we have 11:09:54
some ways to address that and we want to bring this 11:09:56
back in in a slightly differentman manner, mitigate 11:09:59
some of these issues, et cetera. 11:10:03
So it's not unheard of that that's the approach. 11:10:04
>>> We can certainly clarify the access issues since 11:10:07
there was some confusion about where that approved 11:10:10
access was. 11:10:12
You asked about whether it was a CI portion that 11:10:13
extended all the way to the south. 11:10:15
I think you may have shared your concern about the 11:10:16
confusion. 11:10:18
We certainly can clarify that again with the neighbors 11:10:19
in the public record because it was a little bit 11:10:22
misleading and confusing on the record. 11:10:24
>> But no reduction in the units. 11:10:26
>>> 132 would remain, yes, sir. 11:10:29
>>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that would 11:10:30
like to speak against this reconsideration? 11:10:32
>>> Al Steenson, 4100 west DEHLA Avenue, Tampa, 11:10:38
Florida. 11:10:45
I'm here in position of the chairman of the board of 11:10:45
the Gandy civic association. 11:10:47
There's only two things that changed between last 11:10:49

Thursday night and this morning. 11:10:51
Number one is the time of day we are here discussing 11:10:52
this petition, and number two, we didn't have to deal 11:10:54
with Wilma. 11:10:57
She hit south Florida, she didn't hit us, thank 11:10:59
heavens. 11:11:02
All right. 11:11:02
The traffic issues remain the same 11:11:03
Jumping over lanes of traffic to make a U-turn at the 11:11:11
light. 11:11:14
The evacuation issues still are a concern of the folks 11:11:14
in the association. 11:11:18
The 911 issue that I brought up last week I think is 11:11:20
very significant. 11:11:23
If there's apartments there, how do the people tell 11:11:24
them how to get to where they live? 11:11:27
The association has responded to an e-mail. 11:11:33
And authorized me to speak on their behalf. 11:11:36
And we respectfully ask that this be denied 11:11:40
reconsideration. 11:11:44
Thank you very much. 11:11:45
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you. 11:11:45
Ms. Ferlita. 11:11:46
>>ROSE FERLITA: I think Mr. Dingfelder brings up a gad 11:11:46
point. 11:11:49

There are not any substantive changes in what is coming 11:11:50
before us. 11:11:53
This is simply asking for reconsideration under the 11:11:53
same conditions. 11:11:56
I this think the petitioner's representative came up 11:11:56
and tried to clarify what he thought we meant, at least 11:11:58
in my situation, and I think we have the opportunity, 11:12:01
which is a good healthy discussion, about what we did 11:12:03
mean as opposed to what he thought we meant. 11:12:06
But given that the project is the same, I was on the 11:12:09
prevailing side and I don't ever see a problem with 11:12:12
giving somebody a second chance to represent their 11:12:14
project again. 11:12:17
But nothing has changed in this case. 11:12:17
And my position will be the same. 11:12:19
And I don't see the need to look at it again. 11:12:21
So I won't be supporting a reconsideration. 11:12:26
>>GWEN MILLER: Okay. 11:12:33
You do not have another chance, Mr. Horner. 11:12:35
Thank you. 11:12:38
At this time we go to the public. 11:12:39
Is there anyone in the public that would like to speak 11:12:40
to any item on the agenda that is not set for a public 11:12:42
hearing? 11:12:45
One second, Mr. Knott, we have another for 11:12:45

reconsideration. 11:12:54
Come up, sir. 11:12:55
>>> Good morning, chairman, council members. 11:12:57
I'm here regarding 31 oh 02 north Nebraska Avenue, 11:13:00
petition number Z-05-78. 11:13:05
I respectfully ask for a second hearing on this subject 11:13:09
property. 11:13:12
The reason being, I'll be revising my site plan and my 11:13:14
list of use on the subject property. 11:13:20
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: To what? 11:13:21
>>GWEN MILLER: What do you change it to? 11:13:24
What's your use been changed to? 11:13:28
>>> RM-16. 11:13:30
>> What are you going to build? 11:13:33
>>> I'll be converting those units to a bigger size. 11:13:35
>>GWEN MILLER: What now? 11:13:45
>>> There are eleven units there. 11:13:47
I would like to utilize those units. 11:13:48
>>GWEN MILLER: To what? 11:13:51
>>> To build single-family dwelling units. 11:13:54
>>KEVIN WHITE: Apartments? Condos? 11:13:56
>>> Apartments. 11:14:04
Single-bedroom apartments. 11:14:04
>>ROSE FERLITA: Apartment are different we understand. 11:14:10
So we had this conversation when it failed. 11:14:11

It's apartments. 11:14:15
It not residences. 11:14:16
>>> Yes. 11:14:18
>>GWEN MILLER: Not residences, no. 11:14:18
Just apartments. 11:14:21
>>MARTIN SHELBY: I want to clarify to council. 11:14:23
And thisth was relevant in the last case but the 11:14:28
discussion touched on these. 11:14:30
In a continued request for consideration in 11:14:32
quasi-judicial matters, council should consider the 11:14:34
following as grounds for consideration, whether there 11:14:37
was procedural error, deprived the party of due 11:14:39
process, other evidence relevant to council 11:14:43
determination that was not reasonably available to be 11:14:45
known and presented at a time of hearing. 11:14:47
And from what I'm listening, I don't know what the 11:14:50
basis for this gentleman's reconsideration is that was 11:14:54
not communicated. 11:14:58
I'm sorry, I just wanted clarification, please. 11:14:59
>>KEVIN WHITE: Madam Chairman, if I may. 11:15:01
I think, in trying to give some consideration to the 11:15:04
petitioner, I think he was confused about list of uses. 11:15:06
He said I could make favor or six different things, and 11:15:12
I don't believe he had any direction where he wanted to 11:15:15
go. 11:15:19

Are you saying you've clarified that, and the only use 11:15:19
you want to make is apartments there? 11:15:22
>>> Apartments, yes. 11:15:25
>>KEVIN WHITE: Okay. 11:15:26
>>GWEN MILLER: Other questions by council members? 11:15:32
Mr. Dingfelder? 11:15:34
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: What does it say, if it walks like a 11:15:37
duck and smells like a duck? 11:15:40
I mean, I'm just going to leave it alone. 11:15:42
>>GWEN MILLER: What's the pleasure of council? 11:15:47
You cannot have reconsideration. 11:15:55
No one will give you that reconsideration. 11:15:58
>>> Then at this point -- 11:16:01
>>GWEN MILLER: You have, what, a year? 11:16:02
>>> You are denying for the beneficial use of that 11:16:05
piece of property? 11:16:08
>>GWEN MILLER: You have one year. 11:16:09
You have a year to come back and reapply again. 11:16:12
And then you can have it all mapped out what you plan 11:16:16
to put there. 11:16:18
>>> Understand clearly now I'm making single unit 11:16:22
apartments. 11:16:25
>>GWEN MILLER: You are saying that but we need to see 11:16:25
evidence of what you are going to do. 11:16:28
>>> We have on the site plan. 11:16:30

>>GWEN MILLER: We have not seen the site plan. 11:16:31
>>GWEN MILLER: We'll see you later, in a year. 11:16:38
That's it. 11:16:42
Denied. 11:16:43
>>> May I ask based on what I am being denied? 11:16:45
>>GWEN MILLER: That was done Thursday night. 11:16:49
Mr. Massey, will you take him out and explain to him 11:16:53
for us, please? 11:16:56
Okay, Mr. Knott. 11:16:58
MOSES KNOTT,: JR. good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 11:17:06
My name is Moses Knott, Jr., I reside at 2902 East 11:17:07
Ellicott street roughly three nights a week, and I 11:17:12
thank God for his grace and his mercy. 11:17:16
And I want to talk about the prayer, article 5, and 11:17:19
stormwater. 11:17:22
You know, the storm went over and I always talk about 11:17:25
prayer first. 11:17:30
My big reason for being here. 11:17:31
But always pray a prayer thank God. 11:17:34
I ask God for nothing no more. 11:17:39
I just thank God for being here and letting me live. 11:17:42
But I really thank for one more storm around us. 11:17:45
That's the truth. 11:17:51
I thank him for that and I thank him for his grace and 11:17:51
his mercy. 11:17:55

And I think everybody in this area should be thankful. 11:17:56
When you look over there in Key West and Mexico, what 11:17:59
happened to those people, I tell you, you should be 11:18:03
thankful. 11:18:06
People here went out and bought water and was scared to 11:18:07
death and they was praying, and just as quick as the 11:18:11
storm went another way, they went back into their 11:18:14
wicked ways doing like they always done. 11:18:17
But one day, Luke I say, they hunting sin and they go 11:18:20
to tourist places wherever people go there -- 11:18:27
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I knew you were going to pick on us. 11:18:31
When that headed to Miami, I said Mr. Knott is coming 11:18:34
back on that issue. 11:18:37
>>> Went to all the tourist places and I mean messed 11:18:39
them up. 11:18:41
Hypocrites don't come here. 11:18:42
But this morning, though, you all put on this number 5 11:18:45
thing about the growth of Florida, and the gentleman 11:18:49
stood here and said they want a lot of growth and want 11:18:54
things and don't have no money. 11:19:00
He said not talking but all. 11:19:01
I said, what? 11:19:03
They always want this in Tampa and ain't got no money. 11:19:05
And I want to say, this is my first time speaking. 11:19:08
I been at the county -- the county going around 11:19:12

speaking about the growth, you know, and schools. 11:19:16
But I like to speak here because this is where it's 11:19:18
happening over here. 11:19:23
And then the most public thing. 11:19:24
But this is my first time speaking on this growth 11:19:26
thing. 11:19:27
And school thing. 11:19:28
Now, I'm going to tell you all something. 11:19:31
I use this for a prop. 11:19:33
Dr. Len and Dick Greco, they go down in history making 11:19:35
the biggest move you ever seen of getting schools and 11:19:39
building brand new stadium, they win a Super Bowl, but 11:19:42
they went down in history, I said, and Dick Greco, 11:19:46
until that election was over with, but anyway, though, 11:19:54
what I'm saying, though, I agree with what they did, 11:19:57
and from day one, I agreed with what they said. 11:20:01
I says, stormwater and schools should be paid by 11:20:03
everybody. 11:20:07
So that brings to the sales tax. 11:20:08
I agree with it. 11:20:11
That way, everybody pays it. 11:20:12
And when they were dealing on this thing, they said 11:20:13
that the tourists were going to pay a lot of that if 11:20:17
they went to sales tax. 11:20:23
Didn't happen. 11:20:24

Only thing it went to 11 percent and it went to about 11:20:25
35, 40% if these tourists paid if you go to sales tax. 11:20:27
So I wish the county and you all -- I think you should 11:20:31
agree with this property thing here. 11:20:37
You know, John, I tell you all, but I disagree about 11:20:40
what you say about this property thing. 11:20:51
>>GWEN MILLER: Next. 11:20:52
>>> Mentesmot, want to speak about growth and then the 11:20:54
stormwater. The reality is wet comes to planning and 11:20:57
growth we see how it happens. 11:20:59
Planning and growth for black people, you see what it 11:21:01
meant in West Tampa, you see Watt meant in Hyde Park, 11:21:04
you see Watt meant in Ybor City, you see Watt meant in 11:21:08
Jackson Heights and other places. 11:21:09
Planning and growth for black people mean kicking us 11:21:11
out of our neighborhood but right down there on North 11:21:14
Boulevard, in West Tampa, look down at Main Street, it 11:21:17
means destroying our neighborhood and putting 11:21:20
neighborhoods in there that we can't afford. 11:21:23
Our kids can't afford. 11:21:25
Our grandkids can't afford. 11:21:28
And that's the situation in this city. 11:21:30
It needs to be more responsible growth. 11:21:33
And the city cannot grow with this City Council in 11:21:35
office. 11:21:39

And that's something that the people need to know and 11:21:39
understand. 11:21:41
The city cannot grow and has not grown. 11:21:42
All you see is trickery. 11:21:45
Trickery with the parking garage, that's the growth and 11:21:47
gave to the rich white people over in Ybor City, and 11:21:53
Ybor square that's fail, now they say the city got to 11:21:55
take it over for $5.1 million and whatsoever, 11:21:58
whatsoever. 11:22:02
That's the trickery you see, and a fish tank down here 11:22:02
that's unsuccessful. 11:22:06
And everything the city put its hands on is 11:22:08
unsuccessful, on a rail system that's unsuccessful, and 11:22:09
black people in this city gets no respect, get no 11:22:13
nothing. 11:22:16
The only thing we get is jails and prison and you all 11:22:16
have police officers come down here and award them, and 11:22:20
how many of us they going to put in jail and put in 11:22:23
prison and have the sheriff come down and talk about 11:22:26
how many he send to Florida State penitentiary every 11:22:28
month. 11:22:34
That's what we as African-American people get in this 11:22:34
city. 11:22:36
No respect whatsoever. 11:22:37
The Glazers can work in here, get you all to put a 11:22:38

resolution. 11:22:41
The man came down here and tried to give you some money 11:22:42
on stormwater. 11:22:45
You all discussed it for an hour and a half and nothing 11:22:46
came out of it. 11:22:48
Oh, come back in two weeks. 11:22:49
And you told the man there, oh, come back in a year. 11:22:51
Because that's how you do business. 11:22:54
Because you do it on taxpayer time with taxpayer money 11:22:55
and you all waste our time and you waste our money. 11:23:00
The fact of the matter is the planning and growth man 11:23:02
had 10 to 15 minutes on the agenda. 11:23:05
He stayed here an hour. 11:23:07
But private citizens come down here, who comes down 11:23:08
here religiously, and try to get three minutes, and 11:23:11
they end up in jail somewhere. 11:23:15
They end up in orient road. 11:23:16
No respect whatsoever for the people. 11:23:18
No respect for the public. 11:23:21
Where is the mayor? 11:23:22
When Rhonda storm becomes mayor, hopefully she's 11:23:25
sitting here more, hopefully she's sitting here more 11:23:28
than the previous mayors. 11:23:31
You ever see Freedman down here? 11:23:34
No, unless they wanted something with developers. 11:23:39

Ever seen Greco down here? 11:23:41
No, unless they wanted something with the developers. 11:23:43
How do they respect the citizenry? 11:23:45
No respect for the people whatsoever. 11:23:47
When it time to vote the people need to kick them right 11:23:48
out of office right where they belong, right out of 11:23:51
office. 11:23:53
And it's a disrespect in this city and other cities, in 11:23:53
New Orleans, what you see. 11:23:57
Black people lined up, disrespected. 11:23:59
In Miami, what did you see? 11:24:01
Black Hispanic lying up disrespected. 11:24:03
In this city that's all you see is black people. 11:24:07
That's the only thing you talk about and planning and 11:24:09
growth, how to put the police and us, how to put the 11:24:12
police and our youth, how to disenfranchise black 11:24:15
people and give the Glazers and Buccaneers $50,000 a 11:24:18
game for patdown searches. 11:24:22
You all need to wake up. 11:24:23
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you. 11:24:25
Anyone else like to speak? 11:24:26
We go to our committee reports. 11:24:29
Public safety, Ms. Rose Ferlita. 11:24:30
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I apologize to council. 11:24:34
I should have pulled this item. 11:24:36

Item 6, I had a question about it if I could, Ms. 11:24:40
Ferlita. 11:24:43
>>GWEN MILLER: Go ahead. 11:24:45
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: And Mr. Harrison, I want you to take 11:24:45
this with all due respect, because it has nothing to do 11:24:49
with you. 11:24:52
But what I was curious about is Ms. Ferlita is our 11:24:53
public safety chair, and there's been a weed and seed 11:24:58
committee, steering committee that was created with, 11:25:03
you know, U.S. attorney Perez and assistant Chief 11:25:08
Castor, et cetera, et cetera. 11:25:11
And our representative according to this list, Mr. 11:25:13
Harrison, on page 5. 11:25:18
And I know Mr. Harrison would do a phenomenal job. 11:25:19
There's no doubt about that. 11:25:22
But I'm just curious, I would think it would be more 11:25:23
appropriate that our public safety chair would be our 11:25:27
representative. 11:25:29
And so maybe somebody can enlighten me on it. 11:25:32
>>ROSE FERLITA: It's a good point, Mr. Dingfelder. 11:25:37
No, I can't. 11:25:40
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think it's because -- 11:25:40
>>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Harrison. 11:25:46
>>SHAWN HARRISON: I received a call from Kathryn wolf, 11:25:47
asked me if I would serve because it's in my district. 11:25:51

I said I had no problem F.ms. Ferlita wants that 11:25:54
distinct honor either with me or in my place. 11:25:59
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I knew you had nothing to do it 11:26:04
with. 11:26:08
Is weed and seed related to all the weed and seed areas 11:26:09
across the whole city? 11:26:13
I would think it would be. 11:26:14
I would think it would be East Tampa. 11:26:15
Is it just north Tampa? 11:26:17
>>SHAWN HARRISON: There are separate areas. 11:26:20
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I mean, are they all in your 11:26:21
district? 11:26:25
>>GWEN MILLER: No, East Tampa. 11:26:27
>>KEVIN WHITE: What is this particular one? 11:26:28
>>ROSE FERLITA: Let's do this, John. 11:26:33
And Mr. Harrison, I appreciate your courtesy. 11:26:34
And John, I appreciate -- it just seems like the person 11:26:37
on that committee would be the person to do that, 11:26:41
although obviously this agreement is for designated 11:26:43
area. 11:26:47
But Chief Castor had communicated with my legislative 11:26:48
aide, said if there were any concerns or questions 11:26:53
about the two issues that were under my committee that 11:26:55
she would be here. 11:27:00
And I really didn't think about that, John. 11:27:01

I don't think there's a problem if we want some 11:27:03
explanation that's good, and I'm still okay with Mr. 11:27:05
Harrison doing it. 11:27:07
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do you want to defer at week? 11:27:08
>>ROSE FERLITA: That's fine. 11:27:11
Mr. Harrison, do you want to do that, too? 11:27:13
Let's go ahead. 11:27:15
Also, she gave me a list of the different grant fund 11:27:17
amounts. 11:27:21
They are quite a bit here in terms of the security 11:27:22
initiative. 11:27:24
And if we want her to talk further about that, I don't 11:27:24
think there's any problem. 11:27:27
That's a ton of money and a ton of projects. 11:27:28
So if we are going to ask her to come forward and 11:27:30
discuss the first one, let's do the second one. 11:27:32
It's for our benefit but also the lightning audience. 11:27:35
Because that's a big project with a big amount of 11:27:38
dollar amount. 11:27:40
So if the council is okay with that, I'm okay with 11:27:41
deferring it for a week and have them cock back and 11:27:44
discuss them both. 11:27:46
So moved. 11:27:48
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second. 11:27:48
>>GWEN MILLER: To come back in one week or two weeks? 11:27:51

>>ROSE FERLITA: I think one week is fine. 11:27:54
(Motion carried) 11:27:55
>>GWEN MILLER: Parks, recreation, vice chair, Mr. Kevin 11:27:56
White. 11:27:59
>>KEVIN WHITE: Move items number 8 through 14, please. 11:28:00
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: We have a pull on 14. 11:28:04
>>KEVIN WHITE: Through 13 then. 11:28:13
[Motion Carried] 11:28:17
>>GWEN MILLER: Number 14. 11:28:17
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: this item, Mr. Vaughan, as you know, 11:28:20
it's at the Henry and Ola playground which I guess had 11:28:29
a fire and now the entire roof structure needs 11:28:35
replacing. 11:28:37
It's 59,000 for a roof. 11:28:38
But then I read deeper and it says it's the whole 11:28:41
carpentry and everything else, is that correct? 11:28:45
>>> That's correct. 11:28:47
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: My question and my concern -- and I 11:28:48
just want you to assure that community out there that 11:28:50
Henry and OLA area, Seminole Heights, I guess, that 11:28:53
they won't experience the same thing we experienced at 11:28:58
Palma Ceia. 11:29:01
And this is no fault of parks, I don't believe at all, 11:29:03
and I think it's sort of the fault of our system. 11:29:06
And now that you are in charge of it, a better system, 11:29:09

I'm going to hope it going to get better. 11:29:13
But in Palma Ceia playground the contract is literally 11:29:15
awarded, I think, two yourself ago and the contractor 11:29:18
was the slowest thing I have ever seen in my life. 11:29:21
Would show up for a day or two, then wouldn't show up 11:29:24
for two or three weeks, then for another day, and it 11:29:26
dragged on and on and on. 11:29:29
Even to this day it's still not done. 11:29:31
And I know there's some other issues related to Palma 11:29:33
Ceia playground that I'm well familiar with. 11:29:35
But it's still not an excuse the contractor's slow 11:29:38
performance. 11:29:43
I want to make sure this contract includes a time is of 11:29:44
the essence provision, include penalties for slow 11:29:47
performance, et cetera, so these things get done in a 11:29:50
man theory is consistent with the private sector. The 11:29:53
private sector wouldn't put up with slow contractors 11:29:55
and I don't think we should either. 11:29:57
>>> Dave Ryan, contract administration. This is a 11:29:59
120-day contract primarily because there are structural 11:30:02
elements that have to be -- trusses that have to be 11:30:05
fabricated. 11:30:08
The contract does contain liquidated damages. 11:30:09
We are very sensitive to what is happening, and have 11:30:12
every intent to see that does not happen here. 11:30:16

>>CHAIRMAN: Mr. White, would you move that? 11:30:18
>>KEVIN WHITE: Move 14. 11:30:25
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second. 11:30:25
(Motion carried) 11:30:27
>>GWEN MILLER: Public works, John Dingfelder. 11:30:28
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I move, I guess, 15 through 17 and 11:30:32
19. 11:30:36
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second. 11:30:36
>>GWEN MILLER: 18 is continued. 11:30:38
Motion and second. 11:30:45
(Motion carried) 11:30:45
Finance Committee, Kevin White. 11:30:47
>>KEVIN WHITE: Move 20 through 25. 11:30:48
>> Second. 11:30:53
(Motion carried) 11:30:53
>>GWEN MILLER: Building and zoning, Ms. Linda 11:30:54
Saul-Sena. 11:30:57
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Before I move these, I was looking 11:30:57
on our pending calendar. 11:31:02
And November 17th is going to be a very busy day. 11:31:05
And so I have spoken to the staff. 11:31:07
And I'd like to put off the conversation about the 11:31:10
cigar fact tries until January, like the second week in 11:31:13
January. 11:31:20
It's on our pending calendar. 11:31:23

It's currently scheduled for November 17th at 10 11:31:25
a.m. 11:31:29
Remember we had a very long conversation. 11:31:30
>>THE CLERK: I believe those were public hearings 11:31:32
continued to that date. 11:31:35
>>MORRIS MASSEY: If council desires to continue the 11:31:36
public hearing further, I think you will have to wait 11:31:39
till that date to do that. 11:31:41
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: But let everybody know that's our 11:31:43
intent so they don't show up? 11:31:47
>>MORRIS MASSEY: You can certainly say council is 11:31:48
leaning in that direction. 11:31:50
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The reason I'm concerned, Mr. 11:31:51
Massey, is for five years I have been working on an 11:31:53
ordinance approving -- improving the HPC ordinance due 11:31:56
to come up in November, and I feel we have so much 11:32:00
going on, and the cigar factory thing, we don't have 11:32:02
resolution. 11:32:07
Putting it off I think would be much better. 11:32:07
So maybe I'll let them know saying it is my intent to 11:32:10
continue it. 11:32:14
>>MORRIS MASSEY: Request that but obviously that 11:32:14
decision has to be made when the public hearing comes 11:32:16
back. 11:32:18
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I understand. 11:32:18

I would like to move resolutions 26 through 39. 11:32:21
>> Second. 11:32:31
(Motion carried) 11:32:31
>>SHAWN HARRISON: On 26, I have never gotten any 11:32:33
information back from the administration about what 11:32:36
that was. 11:32:38
So rather than delay it any further, I am just going to 11:32:39
vote no. 11:32:41
>>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion say Aye. 11:32:42
Opposed, Nay. 11:32:46
>>SHAWN HARRISON: I'm no on 26. 11:32:46
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Why don't I move 27 through 39. 11:32:49
>>CHAIRMAN: Motion and second. 11:32:54
(Motion carried) 11:32:56
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Then move resolution 26. 11:32:59
>>SHAWN HARRISON: No. 11:33:01
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm going to vote Nay. 11:33:09
>>MARTIN SHELBY: It has to go to the next regular 11:33:13
meeting. 11:33:17
>>SHAWN HARRISON: Why don't we ask administration to 11:33:18
come back as the first agenda item tonight? 11:33:20
>>MARTIN SHELBY: There is it would require a motion for 11:33:24
reconsideration. 11:33:27
There was a motion and vote. 11:33:27
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Prevailing side could ask for the 11:33:30

reconsideration. 11:33:34
Any of you three. 11:33:34
>>MARTIN SHELBY: There was a motion made, seconded, and 11:33:39
did not get the requisite four votes. 11:33:42
Therefore, under council rules it requires it come back 11:33:46
at the next regular council meeting. 11:33:50
>>SHAWN HARRISON: Which is tonight at six. 11:33:52
>>MARTIN SHELBY: The next regular council meeting which 11:33:54
is next week. 11:33:55
>>SHAWN HARRISON: So be it. 11:33:56
>>GWEN MILLER: Transportation, Shawn Harrison. 11:33:59
>>SHAWN HARRISON: Thank you, Madam Chair. 11:34:02
Move items 40 through 42. 11:34:11
>> Second. 11:34:22
(Motion carried) 11:34:22
>>SHAWN HARRISON: Item 43. 11:34:22
Move an ordinance by the City of Tampa authorizing a 11:34:25
street name change in honor of angel OLIVA, Sr., 11:34:27
recognizing angel OLIVA senior as founder of the OLIVA 11:34:32
tobacco company in 1934 and being instrumental in 11:34:38
making the City of Tampa the cigar capital of the 11:34:41
world, providing the renaming of a portion of north 11:34:45
18th street between 2nd Avenue and interstate 4 11:34:48
in the city of Tampa, Florida herein further described 11:34:51
to be here after known as angel OLIVA Sr. street 11:34:55

providing an effective date. 11:35:00
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question of staff. 11:35:00
And that is, as you all know, I'm a big proponent of 11:35:07
sidewalk cafes. 11:35:10
And I wondered if these additional requirements of 11:35:11
additional insurance and everything are prohibited, and 11:35:15
if you discussed this proposed change, with people in 11:35:18
the industry. 11:35:22
And you cooked this up. 11:35:28
>>ROLANDO SANTIAGO: Legal department. 11:35:31
The insurance provision was raised from 500,000 to a 11:35:35
million. 11:35:38
My understanding to date, it has not been a problem for 11:35:39
potential applicant for sidewalk cafes. 11:35:43
We reviewed an application yesterday. This I shall did 11:35:46
you not come up. 11:35:48
But certainly when we looked at the application, no 11:35:49
remarks have been made to me. 11:35:52
The reason they went from 500,000 to a million is to 11:35:53
standardize that requirement throughout the city and 11:35:57
most of our petitions. 11:36:00
And as I have been informed from risk management, that 11:36:01
is the standard of the industry now. 11:36:05
So without asking the question affirmatively, has this 11:36:06
been a problem? 11:36:13

I can tell you that we are trying to standardize it. 11:36:14
So that being the case I imagine most folks it's 11:36:17
commonplace to see this requirement of a million 11:36:21
dollars. 11:36:24
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I see Mr. Mechanik and Mr. Michelini 11:36:24
who donate to things like this and I wonder if either 11:36:28
of you think this would be a problem for your 11:36:33
constituents, the people you represent. 11:36:36
I don't want to create something that's too onerous. 11:36:37
>>STEVE MICHELINI: I don't know -- Steve Michelini. 11:36:43
I can tell you in other issues where they have raised 11:36:46
the insurance policies, as a matter of fact just 11:36:49
recently we went to the public transportation 11:36:52
commission because the insurance premiums they were 11:36:54
asking were so high that the tow trucks couldn't 11:36:57
operate under those provisions. 11:37:00
I don't know. 11:37:01
But the sidewalk cafe is a small entity in the 11:37:02
operation of a restaurant. 11:37:07
I haven't seen this one so I can't tell you. 11:37:08
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This is being presented for first 11:37:10
reading. 11:37:13
What I would like to you do perhaps -- 11:37:13
>>STEVE MICHELINI: Certainly look at it and get with 11:37:17
Mr. Santiago. 11:37:21

>>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Mechanik? 11:37:21
That's okay? 11:37:25
Okay. 11:37:26
Mr. Dingfelder? 11:37:29
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Roland, on the adjacent neighbor 11:37:30
issue, this ordinance also allows, if I have a 11:37:35
restaurant, and I have a friendly relationship with my 11:37:39
next Dohr neighbor, I can ask my next door neighbor to 11:37:41
let me set up my restaurant on the sidewalk in front of 11:37:43
my neighbor's property as well. 11:37:46
That's correct? 11:37:48
>>ROLANDO SANTIAGO: Yes, sir. 11:37:49
>> How about the liability as related to the next one, 11:37:51
the property in front of the next door neighbor? 11:37:54
I would guess that we are not requiring the next door 11:37:58
neighbor to have insurance, to cover that. 11:38:00
The insurance would come out of the principal 11:38:03
restaurant's property and cover no matter where he goes 11:38:08
up and down the sidewalk? 11:38:11
>>> It's contemplated the intent for the primary 11:38:14
applicant's insurance to cover the improved area of the 11:38:18
sidewalk. 11:38:21
>> Are we going to describe that by metes and bounds 11:38:21
like we do already? 11:38:24
>>> Yes, sir. 11:38:25

There's a site plan requirement to identify the area. 11:38:25
>> If they go further it will be covered by that 11:38:28
insurance? 11:38:30
>>> That's correct, as part of the site plan. 11:38:31
>>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Harrison, would you read the 11:38:32
ordinance? 11:38:35
>>SHAWN HARRISON: Move an ordinance of the city of 11:38:36
Tampa, Florida amending the City of Tampa code of 11:38:37
ordinances chapter 22, the City of Tampa streets and 11:38:39
sidewalks ordinance to provide subject to certain 11:38:42
conditions, for a sidewalk cafe to extend across a 11:38:45
public right-of-way in front of an adjacent owner's 11:38:48
property a maximum of 50 feet on either side of the 11:38:50
primary permitee's property, amending section 22-224 11:38:53
persons authorized to operate sidewalk cafes, 11:38:58
application, review and approval process to include the 11:39:01
requirements for submitting evidence of consent by an 11:39:05
adjacent property owner to allow the sidewalk, on the 11:39:08
public right-of-way in front of their property, 11:39:11
amending section 22-225, permit issuance, to amend the 11:39:13
commercial general liability insurance requirement set 11:39:17
in 1992 at $500,000 and here after require permitees to 11:39:20
obtain and maintain liability insurance at the current 11:39:28
industry standard of $1 million, amending 22-226 11:39:32
conditions of permit, to amend the provision requiring 11:39:36

removal of tables and chairs in emergency situations to 11:39:38
include tropical storm and hurricane warnings and 11:39:41
providing a $500 penalty for violation thereof, 11:39:44
amending section 22-227, operational guidelines, to add 11:39:48
authority for an applicant for a sidewalk permit to 11:39:51
extend by a maximum of 50 feet in the public 11:39:55
right-of-way on one side and/or the other of the 11:39:57
applicant's property boundary providing for repeal of 11:40:01
owl ard instances in conflict providing for an 11:40:04
effective date for severability, providing an effective 11:40:06
date. 11:40:09
(Motion carried). 11:40:09
>>SHAWN HARRISON: I set to set public hearings 45 11:40:10
through 54. 11:40:15
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Question. 11:40:18
Items 49, 50 and 51 are all appeal hearings. 11:40:19
I want to make sure, madam clerk, that you all don't 11:40:22
set those on the same day in front of us. 11:40:26
We all know how long appeal hearings can be. 11:40:39
>>SHAWN HARRISON: Good catch, Mr. Dingfelder. 11:40:42
Why don't we make them on succeeding Thursdays. 11:40:47
>> December 8th and December 15th. 11:40:56
>>ROSE FERLITA: I think Mrs. Saul-Sena realizes she's 11:40:59
risking lunch. 11:41:03
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's correct. 11:41:05

>>SHAWN HARRISON: With those revisions, I move those 11:41:06
items. 11:41:10
>>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second. 11:41:10
(Motion carried) 11:41:11
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Only on that one. 11:41:12
>>GWEN MILLER: Item number 55. 11:41:15
It's a continued public hearing. 11:41:17
But before we do that we need to have everyone in the 11:41:18
audience who is going to speak on items 55 through 57 11:41:21
to please stand and raise your right hand. 11:41:25
(Oath administered by Clerk). 11:41:31
>>MARTIN SHELBY: When you state your name, please 11:41:37
reaffirm that you have been sworn. 11:41:39
Thank you. 11:41:40
>>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development. 11:41:54
I have been sworn. 11:41:55
I'll be brief. 11:41:56
This is the 7th public hearing on this case. 11:41:57
We have gone through it. 11:42:00
Several times. 11:42:02
It's changed significantly. 11:42:03
They did reduce the property in size from the last 11:42:05
hearing that. Was the reason for the last continuance 11:42:08
and to address some other staff considerations. 11:42:10
The plan before you and the staff report before you, 11:42:14

there were objections listed. 11:42:18
Mr. Michelini and Mr. Topf and I went through it before 11:42:20
the hearing and we did add the notes and the conditions 11:42:25
to meet land development transportation and commercial 11:42:27
site review requirements. 11:42:30
I did have one copy of an elevation from an old plan, 11:42:31
which I attached to the clerk's copy. 11:42:34
You do not have one before you. 11:42:38
However, Mr. Michelini does have the colored version to 11:42:40
show you. 11:42:43
If you're willing because that was one of my 11:42:44
objections. 11:42:46
We do have it on file with the clerk to be adopted. 11:42:46
And Mr. Toph has assured me tomorrow he will bring 11:42:49
additional copies if you are willing to move forward on 11:42:53
it. 11:42:55
Other than that staff has no other objections. 11:42:55
They are doing 12 single-family attached dwelling units 11:42:57
on the block between church Dale and Horatio Avenue. 11:43:02
It is cat correspondence from the Tahitian Inn. 11:43:06
There are two-car garages with each unit. 11:43:10
Originally there was an objection to removing the 11:43:12
45-inch grand tree. 11:43:15
It was inspected by Cathy beck and Dave Riley from our 11:43:16
Parks Department. 11:43:20

It is no N poor condition and in decline. 11:43:20
They are going to be doing an interim replacement once 11:43:23
they take it out. 11:43:25
It was located behind unit 3. 11:43:26
It is a Mediterranean style. 11:43:29
I'll have Mr. Toph explain further about the 11:43:32
architecture. 11:43:35
Thank you. 11:43:35
>>STEVE MICHELINI: This project has been in various 11:43:38
different configurations. 11:43:44
As Cathy stated we have reduced the size of it. 11:43:46
We provided more green space than was previously on the 11:43:48
site. 11:43:51
We worked very closely with staff. This is directly 11:43:55
behind the Lutheran church. 11:43:58
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Cathy said 7th time. 11:44:01
Have we heard this seven times? 11:44:05
>>STEVE MICHELINI: No, you haven't had a full 11:44:08
presentation on. This you had a full presentation 11:44:11
probably back in early March. 11:44:13
And there were never any neighborhood objections. 11:44:15
There were staff and technical issues that we couldn't 11:44:18
get resolved. 11:44:21
And it really required more time for parks to get out 11:44:22
on the site and do a thorough analysis of what trees 11:44:25

are being impacted and that sort of thing. 11:44:28
We had some technical questions about backing spaces 11:44:31
and things like that that we resolved with the fire 11:44:37
department and with solid waste. 11:44:39
We also internalized the driveways and pushed the 11:44:42
fronts of the buildings and the front yards up to the 11:44:45
respective streets on Horatio and Dale. 11:44:47
And all of the parking and the maneuvering occurs off 11:44:50
the street, in the internal side of the development. 11:44:53
We have also provided six guest parking spaces internal 11:44:57
to the site. 11:45:00
Originally, we had some on-street parking that we had 11:45:02
shown here, and staff had objected to that. 11:45:08
Because there really is no technical standard that 11:45:11
allows for that to happen. 11:45:13
One thing that council may want to consider in the 11:45:15
future is addressing -- providing that on-street 11:45:17
parking, when you go to your code changes and technical 11:45:20
standards. 11:45:25
So they can't do anything except object to that. 11:45:25
So we took it off the plans. 11:45:28
We have worked around the significant trees that are on 11:45:31
the site and committed to inch for inch replacement for 11:45:34
the tree that's in decline and damaged and the parks 11:45:38
allowed us to remove. 11:45:41

I think it's very sensitive to the neighborhood. 11:45:42
And as I said we have had no objections except 11:45:44
technical staff issues that we tried to work out. 11:45:47
>>GWEN MILLER: Questions by council members? 11:45:50
Is there anyone in the public that would like to speak 11:45:52
on item number 55? 11:45:54
>> Move to close. 11:45:56
>> Second. 11:45:57
(Motion carried) 11:45:57
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just wanted to be reassured by 11:46:01
staff, that staff recommends approval of this? 11:46:03
>>CATHERINE COYLE: That's correct. 11:46:07
All our objections were we moved. 11:46:08
>> Thank you for the clarification. 11:46:12
>>ROSE FERLITA: Move an ordinance rezoning property in 11:46:13
the general vicinity of 3813, 3815, 3817 west Dale and 11:46:16
3816 west Horatio street in the city of Tampa, Florida 11:46:22
more particularly described in section 1 from zoning 11:46:25
district classifications RM-16 to PD single-family 11:46:27
attached residential, providing an effective date. 11:46:30
>>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second. 11:46:31
(Motion carried) 11:46:34
>>GWEN MILLER: Item 56 need to open. 11:46:34
>> So moved. 11:46:39
>> Second. 11:46:39

(Motion carried) 11:46:40
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's for a 60-day continuance. 11:46:40
Which would take us to. 11:46:47
>>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second to continue 11:47:03
item 56. 11:47:05
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We have to continue to the a 11:47:07
specific time. 11:47:09
>>GWEN MILLER: When can we do that? 11:47:09
>>THE CLERK: 11:47:11
>>MARTIN SHELBY: I want to make it clear that according 11:47:47
to council's rules the actions of receiving and file 11:47:49
documents by City Council shall not in any way be 11:47:51
construed to constitute concurrence with or endorsement 11:47:54
by City Council of the matter being received and filed. 11:47:57
I just want it to be clear. 11:48:00
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you. 11:48:03
Item 57. 11:48:04
Reconsideration of the public hearing. 11:48:06
We need to open that. 11:48:07
We have a motion and second. 11:48:09
(Motion carried) 11:48:10
>>HEATHER LAMBOY: Land development. 11:48:11
Now it's my turn. 11:48:17
I would like to quickly refresh my memory on this 11:48:18
particular case. The petitioner is requesting to 11:48:21

develop a church on the property located on the east 11:48:23
side of Phillips street just south of Martin St. Louis. 11:48:26
For your references, Anheuser-Busch development so now 11:48:29
where this is. 11:48:37
Here is the aerial. 11:48:38
You can see the church property. 11:48:39
There's a church in the immediate area as well. 11:48:40
And there's a mixture of residential and commercial 11:48:43
development along east Martin Luther King Boulevard. 11:48:46
It has a residential massing and character. 11:48:55
And for background, it was approved at first reading 11:49:01
September 1st, 2005. 11:49:10
How far was denied on September 15th, 2005. 11:49:11
Parking was a concern expressed by City Council. 11:49:13
No more information has been provided. 11:49:16
However the petitioner will provide some information 11:49:20
regarding parking. 11:49:22
The petitioner has been working to find alternative 11:49:23
parking to address City Council concerns. 11:49:26
The parking waiver request was created as a result of 11:49:30
saving the grand tree on-site. 11:49:32
Prior to making the commitment to preserve the tree, 11:49:34
the petitioner provided a plan that supplied all 11:49:36
parking on the site so this really was a staff 11:49:42
generated waiver request, because of the preservation 11:49:44

of that grand tree. 11:49:47
And for your reference, they are reducing the number of 11:49:48
parking spaces from 27 to 16. 11:49:51
So they are short nine parking spaces. 11:49:53
That will conclude staff comments. 11:49:57
There are objections to the proposed petition with 11:50:00
reference to transportation objection, landscape 11:50:04
waiver, an objection concerning neighborhood 11:50:10
compatibility, and solid waste objection regard willing 11:50:12
location -- location of the dumpster was addressed 11:50:15
prior to the last hearing on September 1st. 11:50:18
Thank you. 11:50:20
>>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner. 11:50:21
>>> Good morning. 11:50:27
Representing applicant again. 11:50:30
We were here before, and the last time we were here we 11:50:32
have received a letter of commitment from an owner of 11:50:35
vacant residential property in the area. 11:50:38
Since that time we worked with staff and staff has come 11:50:41
to the conclusion that residential property is probably 11:50:44
not the best type of property to use in this particular 11:50:47
instance. 11:50:51
So we have contacted -- this is the property here. 11:50:51
We have contacted this land over here, CG property. 11:51:03
It is a plumbing business. 11:51:07

And as you can see, this is a picture taken -- this is 11:51:11
the applicant's proposed location for the church an 11:51:15
this is actually the corner where the CG property is. 11:51:17
And there's property to the rear of that. 11:51:21
And Wan we are proposing to do is present to the city 11:51:29
attorney in acceptable form a one-year renewable lease. 11:51:33
And accepted a one-year renewable lease for church 11:51:40
parking and we just want to come before and get your 11:51:46
permission to proceed and we can take a traditional 11:51:48
approval. 11:51:53
>>GWEN MILLER: So what are you saying, you are moving 11:51:54
your church from where it is now? 11:51:56
>>> No, no. 11:51:59
>>GWEN MILLER: You are going to park from the church? 11:51:59
How many blocks is that? 11:52:01
>>> This is on the same street. 11:52:02
This is the proposed location right here. 11:52:03
And this is where the plumbing business is. 11:52:05
>> That's where you will park? 11:52:09
>>> That's where we'll park, for, again, for overflow. 11:52:10
Because we do have enough parking on-site right now to 11:52:15
accommodate the number of people who are interested in 11:52:19
becoming part of the congregation. 11:52:21
That's just for future growth. 11:52:23
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you. 11:52:25

I think I was somebody who voted against this 11:52:28
previously because I was concerned about parking. 11:52:31
I think the solution you are proposing today is 11:52:32
terrific, it answers our question. 11:52:34
The plumbing business I'm sure won't be busy on Sunday 11:52:36
mornings. 11:52:39
And it would solve the problem. 11:52:39
So I'm willing to support this reconsideration. 11:52:41
>>MARTIN SHELBY: For the record, were you sworn? 11:52:43
>>> I was. 11:52:48
>>ROSE FERLITA: It's not even a concern, it's just an 11:52:49
incidental comment. 11:52:53
On Sunday morning I doubt you are going to have a lot 11:52:54
of traffic except from your own parishioners. 11:52:56
As your parish grows, as your church grows, just be 11:52:59
cautious about children walking back and forth. 11:53:02
I think they are always going to be accompanied by 11:53:04
adults but maybe you should just take that into 11:53:08
consideration when you get so big. 11:53:10
>>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that would 11:53:14
like to speak on item number 57? 11:53:15
>>KEVIN WHITE: Move to close. 11:53:18
>> Second. 11:53:20
(Motion carried) 11:53:20
>>KEVIN WHITE: Move to approve. 11:53:21

>>THE CLERK: I do have an ordinance which reflect the 11:53:25
site plan, dated August 2nd, 2005. 11:53:29
>>MORRIS MASSEY: For council's information the site 11:53:35
plan has not changed. 11:53:37
So that is the correct ordinance. 11:53:38
>>KEVIN WHITE: Move an ordinance approving a special 11:53:41
use permit S-2 approving a church and daycare and in an 11:53:45
RM-16 multi-residential zoning at 3815 Phillips street 11:53:51
in the city of Tampa, Florida more particularly 11:53:56
described in section 1 hereof reducing the front 11:53:58
setback from 40 feet to 29.7 feet, reducing the rear 11:54:00
setback from 40 feet to 6 feet, waiving the required 11:54:03
access to an arterial or collector street, and allowing 11:54:06
access to local street, reducing the vehicle parking 11:54:09
area buffer from 10 feet to 6 feet along the north 11:54:11
property line, reducing the rear yard buffer from 10 11:54:14
feet to 6 feet, with a 6-foot wood fence allowing 11:54:17
parking on the gross, with the exception of the drive 11:54:21
isle and handicapped parking spots, which will be 11:54:25
asphalt, reducing the required number of parking spaces 11:54:27
from 27 spaces to 16 spaces, reducing the required 11:54:30
setback area from 6 feet to 4.9 feet, providing an 11:54:34
effective date. 11:54:37
>>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second. 11:54:37
(Motion carried) 11:54:39

Madam clerk? 11:54:43
>>THE CLERK: We have number 3. 11:54:48
>>GWEN MILLER: While we are waiting for full council, 11:54:53
Mr. White, do you have anything? 11:54:58
>>KEVIN WHITE: No. 11:55:01
>>ROSE FERLITA: I have a couple of things. 11:55:01
Then I have one more thing if you don't mind. 11:55:04
Motion to present a commendation to ADA Diaz who has 11:55:05
been with the city for 50 years, will rehonor, and we 11:55:10
would like to have a commendation for her next Thursday 11:55:16
at 9 a.m. 11:55:20
[Motion Carried] 11:55:22
>>ROSE FERLITA: The second thing, I can say it right 11:55:23
now. 11:55:26
We received some correspondence from some neighbors in 11:55:27
South Tampa that were pretty annoyed about a project 11:55:31
that they have been putting up with for awhile. 11:55:33
That's at the corner of Bayshore and Waverly. 11:55:36
We joined some citizens the other morning about 8:00 11:55:39
and I thought it was going to be a very short visit. 11:55:41
Actually it was almost 10:00 when we left. 11:55:44
Della joined me at 2902 Waverly. 11:55:47
This project mimics many projects and a lot of growth 11:55:50
we have in South Tampa and a lot of areas for that 11:55:53
matter as well. 11:55:55

But the construction site is an incredible nuisance. 11:55:56
I mean, that is -- it's undertelling you what those 11:55:59
people have experienced. 11:56:03
In those two hours I was there, the side of the street 11:56:04
that's opposite their driveways is totally blocked. 11:56:07
The construction people even came over and asked one of 11:56:10
the neighbors to move her car that was across the 11:56:12
street because they wanted to use it as a staging area. 11:56:17
At some point, there was a postal worker delivering 11:56:19
stuff with his automobile. 11:56:24
You could not get by there really almost even with a 11:56:25
motorcycle, much less a rescue vehicle. 11:56:28
It was as awful as I can tell you and then some. 11:56:32
This has been going on for more than a year. 11:56:35
They have continued to put up with this. 11:56:39
And we need to ask a few departments to help us, and 11:56:41
make this the model when we have other big projects in 11:56:45
South Tampa. 11:56:47
We need to talk to transportation, because one of the 11:56:48
comments that they made was the vehicle is parked too 11:56:51
close to the corner of Bayshore and Waverly and it's 11:56:54
hard to make that turn if somebody is come. 11:56:56
And the foreman's answer was, That's the owner's car. 11:56:58
Well, don't care whose car it was, it was causing a 11:57:02
problem and is a hazard. 11:57:05

People could not get out of their driveway. 11:57:07
At one point the driver was blocked in. 11:57:10
I couldn't get out. 11:57:12
They have got all the construction refuge coming down a 11:57:13
tank or a tube. 11:57:17
And once it hits close to the dumpster, then all this 11:57:18
dust and particle explodes throughout the whole 11:57:21
neighborhood, particularly the gentleman's house that's 11:57:23
right across. 11:57:26
I mean, there were so many violations and problems that 11:57:26
I can't begin to tell you. 11:57:30
There are new crews that are out there completing the 11:57:34
project. 11:57:36
I think at best it's not going to be completed until 11:57:37
next May, or June. 11:57:40
And it's an issue that's been a problem. 11:57:42
I think we need to look at this. 11:57:46
Morris, I think the legal department needs to look at 11:57:49
what they have to comply by, because what the guy told 11:57:51
us, we took over the project, and we don't necessarily 11:57:54
have to do anything that was agreed to at the 11:57:57
beginnings. 11:57:59
It was as awful as awful can be. 11:58:00
And the issue about parking straight across from the 11:58:03
driveway, or so many feet within the apron of the 11:58:06

driveway, TPD is not citing them in terms of ticket. 11:58:09
And we either need to make this an example of what's 11:58:13
going on, or start having some criteria that sets the 11:58:17
boundaries when developers come into that area. 11:58:20
Linda, I am going to show you some pictures when she 11:58:23
comes. 11:58:25
Because we have to do something. 11:58:26
And not to discount Mr. Dingfelder's office. 11:58:27
I know that either John or somebody in his office have 11:58:30
gone out there, and John, I don't know if you heard the 11:58:33
first parted part, I was there two hours and it was 11:58:35
unconscionable what they were putting up W.I don't 11:58:38
understand it. 11:58:41
People were coming. 11:58:42
This one lady wanted to leave her house and one of the 11:58:42
workers said, no, no, can't go this way, go the other 11:58:45
way. 11:58:48
It was like -- and they didn't know who I was. 11:58:48
But it was like, it was unbelievable. 11:58:50
And for them to put up with it so long, and there has 11:58:52
been damage to some of the structure of the house, when 11:58:56
they were, you know, putting the pilings or whatever 11:58:59
you call them. 11:59:01
I mean, I cannot imagine that these people have been 11:59:02
that patient for that long. 11:59:07

Let's go ahead and finish the dialogue and then please 11:59:08
allow me to share the pictures I took in that short 11:59:11
amount of time. 11:59:14
Something has to be done. 11:59:15
These people are just so frustrated. 11:59:16
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you for bringing that up. 11:59:21
When this originally came up, when we approved the 11:59:22
original rezoning, I asked if we could change the rules 11:59:25
on Bayshore, which currently Bayshore doesn't allow 11:59:28
trucks to drive on it. 11:59:31
And I thought maybe for the construction it would make 11:59:32
life easier if we could change the rules to allow these 11:59:34
construction trucks to drive on Bayshore, because 11:59:37
Waverly is about 16 or 17 feet wide. 11:59:39
And transportation said, no, we can't change the rules 11:59:42
just for this project. 11:59:45
But my other concerns as we see construction on 11:59:48
Bayshore near the Platt Street bridge, those two 11:59:51
high-rises that have been approved, Bay Street, which 11:59:54
is behind that, is even narrower. 11:59:57
It's maybe 15 feet. 11:59:59
And I think perhaps what we need is analysis done by 12:00:01
construction services of how large-scale projects plan 12:00:05
to place their materials and have some sort of 12:00:10
maintenance and traffic strategy that will not 12:00:14

completely inconvenience the people in the adjacent 12:00:18
neighborhood. 12:00:22
Because we have a number of very large-scale rezoning 12:00:23
that we have approved particularly near the Davis 12:00:28
Island bridges bridge where there will be large 12:00:31
buildings, and I want to make sure that neighbors and 12:00:34
continuing traffic isn't -- 12:00:39
>>ROSE FERLITA: And again I want to substantiate that. 12:00:40
What I would like to do is meet with the departments. 12:00:44
I would be happy to do that this week. 12:00:47
Have transportation come in next week and tell me what 12:00:48
they have done at that site. 12:00:51
And just as that is a problem there it is even worse at 12:00:53
Euclid and Bayshore. 12:00:56
And then two streets down on the other side. 12:00:57
So I would like TPD, transportation, code enforcement, 12:00:59
legal, all of them to weigh in on this project next 12:01:04
week. 12:01:06
I mean, they have to get some relief. 12:01:07
Again, parking vehicles across or within 10 feet of 12:01:09
driveways. 12:01:15
They have violation upon violation upon violation. 12:01:16
And the way the particles of the construction are 12:01:19
coming down that tube, I'm not sure that's not an 12:01:23
environmental protection issue, too. 12:01:26

But let me just pass these onto you. 12:01:28
Do you want to put them on there? 12:01:31
Can we put them on there? 12:01:33
I would like to do that, if you can do that for me. 12:01:35
I think we have to address. This that's the owner's 12:01:43
car. 12:01:48
They refused to move that. Because the sign is right 12:01:48
here and it's just about on the border. 12:01:50
I think from what TPD -- I asked them to come out and 12:01:54
join me. 12:01:57
They said that in those type of situations, 12:01:57
transportation can move that sign in, because there's 12:02:01
just not enough room for people to navigate around 12:02:04
that. 12:02:06
That is directly across from the house where I was 12:02:07
visiting. 12:02:09
That's their driveway. 12:02:10
There it is. 12:02:11
Show the next one, Morris. 12:02:14
You and I didn't think we were going to do a project. 12:02:17
That's across the street when they asked the lady to 12:02:19
move their car so they could take these off and put it 12:02:21
at their site. 12:02:25
Again right across the street. 12:02:26
Go ahead, Morris. 12:02:29

Now that's the mailman is delivering the mail. 12:02:32
And so you can't get by there at all to the right of 12:02:37
Bayshore. 12:02:40
So there's no access at all. 12:02:41
Forget about emergency vehicles. 12:02:44
Again, this is all day long, across from that 12:02:45
particular house. 12:02:48
Morris, why don't you put two or three or four up 12:02:49
there? 12:02:51
There it is. 12:02:53
They control the street. 12:02:53
And that's it. 12:02:55
This is right out of their driveway. 12:02:56
I was in there. 12:02:57
Had to back up and go forward to get out. This is just 12:03:01
an hour and a half or two. 12:03:04
Go ahead, Morris. 12:03:05
>>MORRIS MASSEY: That's all. 12:03:06
>>ROSE FERLITA: That gives you a quick idea of what 12:03:08
happened in that short period of time. 12:03:11
>>MORRIS MASSEY: Quick suggestion. 12:03:12
Another department you probably would like to have here 12:03:15
to discuss the issues, construction services, they deal 12:03:17
with the whole building process, noise, and have some 12:03:21
restrictions in the building code. 12:03:25

So I think it would be helpful for them to be here as 12:03:27
well just as a suggestion. 12:03:30
>>GWEN MILLER: Is that a motion? 12:03:31
ROSE FERLITA: Yes, it is. 12:03:38
We'll put these in the record as well. 12:03:39
I want them to be here, not a report. 12:03:41
And we'll communicate with them during the week so they 12:03:45
are not caught off guard. 12:03:47
And I'll tell them what the concerns are for that 12:03:48
particular site as an example of other sites close to 12:03:50
that particular address so they can tell us what they 12:03:52
can do to remedy this and get the neighborhood 12:03:54
mediation. 12:04:03
>>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Shelby. 12:04:03
>>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, now that the full council is 12:04:06
present, this is something again that was moved from 12:04:09
the pending calendar and placed last week, present -- 12:04:11
presented for first reading. 12:04:16
Item number 3. 12:04:18
The required number of votes was not achieved. 12:04:19
Now that the full council is present, I do have a 12:04:23
request before council votes that the ordinance be read 12:04:25
again, please. 12:04:28
>>GWEN MILLER: Mr. White, would you read it? 12:04:34
>>KEVIN WHITE: Move an ordinance vacating, closing, 12:04:37

discontinuing, and abandoning a certain unnamed 12:04:39
right-of-way all that unnamed right-of-way lying south 12:04:44
of Beach Way Drive north of Watrous Avenue, west of 12:04:47
Ferncroft Avenue and east of Westshore Boulevard in 12:04:51
Beach Park subdivision a subdivision located in the 12:04:54
City of Tampa, Hillsborough County the same being more 12:04:56
fully described in section 2 hereof providing an 12:04:59
effective date. 12:05:02
>>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. White -- the original maker was 12:05:02
council member Alvarez and was seconded by council 12:05:08
member Dingfelder. 12:05:08
So I believe council is prepared to vote. 12:05:10
>>SHAWN HARRISON: He said he voted against it. 12:05:11
How could he second it? 12:05:20
>>MARTIN SHELBY: The maker of a motion has to vote in 12:05:21
the affirmative as support but the seconder is not 12:05:27
bound in favor as Roberts rules. 12:05:35
>>THE CLERK: Dingfelder and Saul-Sena voting no. 12:05:37
>>GWEN MILLER: Okay. 12:05:46
We go back to information by council members. 12:05:47
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Nothing. 12:05:51
>>SHAWN HARRISON: Nothing. 12:05:52
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I will not be here tonight. 12:05:53
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: At next week's regular meeting, we 12:05:55
had some discussion on some special items. 12:06:02

The reason I asked, I will be out of town on official 12:06:08
city business next week. 12:06:10
>>THE CLERK: November 3rd, we have got at 10:00 12:06:11
supposed to be a redraft of the ethics ordinance. 12:06:18
I believe that has been Rae scheduled. 12:06:21
11:30, a workshop on creating more consistent policy. 12:06:25
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'd like to move that we defer the 12:06:31
alley discussion to another week or two, just because 12:06:38
it is something near and dear to me. 12:06:41
>>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second. 12:06:43
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let's pick a date. 12:06:44
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The 17th is going to be very 12:06:47
busy. 12:06:52
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm okay with January. 12:06:52
The third week of January. 12:06:54
>>THE CLERK: Third week in January, that would be the 12:06:57
19th. 12:07:00
And as of this time you only have wet zonings but none 12:07:01
has been set for that date. 12:07:04
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: That would be fine. 12:07:05
10:00. 12:07:07
>> Second. 12:07:11
>>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second. 12:07:11
(Motion carried) 12:07:13
Clerk, do you have anything? 12:07:16

>> Move to receive and file all the documents. 12:07:20
[Motion Carried] 12:07:23
>>GWEN MILLER: We now go to our audience portion. 12:07:23
12:07:26
(City Council meeting adjourned) 12:07:28
12:08:18
12:08:18