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TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
December 8, 2005
9 a.m. Regular Council Meeting

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[Sounding gavel]
(Music mixed with audio)
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Ms. Dillard is also a small business owner
and life-long resident of Florida.
Let's all stand and after the invocation we'll have the pledge
of allegiance.
>> (No audio) 09:10:55:00
I'm grateful for the hundreds of volunteers who rose recently 09:11:19:01
one Saturday morning to collect tons of trash for the mayor's 09:11:23:24
river clean-up. 09:11:26:18
I'm grateful for the alligator I often see lying like a lazy log 09:11:27:18
across the bank, and the majestic Osprey that perches often a 09:11:31:24
petrified cypress tree as if to remind me I should do the same. 09:11:37:22
I'm grateful for a vibrant diversity that still manages to be as 09:11:44:00
friendly as a small town, even as it grows and grows. 09:11:47:24
I am grateful for a City Council and mayor who make the 09:11:52:07

sacrifice to sit at endless meetings listening to all sides, 09:11:55:15
hearing all the complaints, so that Tampa can keep moving 09:12:00:25
forward. 09:12:04:06
And I'm especially grateful that our city has been spared the 09:12:05:00
devastation of hurricanes for yet another year. 09:12:09:09
As I rush into this next year, I hope that I will remember to 09:12:14:06
slow down and count all these and many more blessings that come 09:12:18:06
with waking up right here in Tampa. 09:12:23:04
(Pledge of Allegiance). 09:12:25:15
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can we please get a copy of that? 09:12:45:00
That was lovely. 09:12:47:03
>>GWEN MILLER: Roll call. 09:12:47:22
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here. 09:12:49:15
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here. 09:12:51:19
>>SHAWN HARRISON: (No response.) 09:12:52:25
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Here. 09:12:53:25
>>ROSE FERLITA: Here. 09:12:54:24
>>KEVIN WHITE: (No response.) 09:12:56:12
>>GWEN MILLER: Here. 09:12:57:15
I would like to put in the record that Mr. Shawn Harrison will 09:12:58:15
not be with us this morning or this afternoon at the night 09:13:00:28
meeting. 09:13:05:06
He's accepting an award from the national League of Cities. 09:13:06:09
At this time we go to Mr. John Dingfelder for a commendation. 09:13:12:18
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Madam Chair, what a joy and pleasure it is to 09:13:38:15

give this commendation this morning to Matilda Garcia. 09:13:44:13
And Matilda, before we get started, I wanted you to introduce 09:13:49:25
everybody you brought with you. 09:13:53:18
Looks like a lot of family to me. 09:13:55:06
>>> My dearest friend. 09:13:58:07
She doesn't wake up early but she came all the way from 09:14:00:09
Clearwater to be with me. 09:14:03:06
My daughter and my confidant and my life saver. 09:14:06:06
My great granddaughter, Ashley. 09:14:12:19
And my proud son max Garcia. 09:14:16:12
And how did you get there? 09:14:21:12
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: We are so honored. 09:14:33:09
I didn't know we had an officer in the family. 09:14:35:04
It looks like you got a lot of years on the shoulders. 09:14:39:00
And of course judge Martinez who serve this community for so 09:14:43:00
many years as a state representative and currently as a county 09:14:49:21
judge. 09:14:52:15
Matilda, we are so pleased to honor you. 09:14:53:27
And I'm sure that this list that we put on this commendation 09:14:57:04
just really addresses your accomplishments because that's what 09:15:04:03
we hear about recently, but a lifetime of accomplishments that I 09:15:08:16
don't even know about. 09:15:11:28
But some people are talkers, and some people are doers. 09:15:13:00
And from what I am known you more than a dozen years, you're a 09:15:17:00
doer. 09:15:22:09

You get on the phone, you tell me what's going on, and you do 09:15:22:21
that not only locally but nationally. 09:15:25:10
So we are so pleased and honored to present this commendation to 09:15:28:18
you, in regard to your service to the league of united Latin 09:15:31:13
American citizens. 09:15:36:27
And I think you have been a national officer. 09:15:38:07
Were you president? 09:15:41:13
>>> State director. 09:15:44:06
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: And the nationallal presidency I'm sure is 09:15:50:15
around the corner. 09:15:53:12
On behalf of City Council I would read this commendation to you. 09:15:54:12
Matilda Garcia, you dedicated yourself to assisting Latin 09:15:57:18
American communities locally and nationally. 09:16:01:12
They have given I a scholarship, designatedded in your honor 09:16:03:22
through the league of united Latin American citizens, awarded to 09:16:07:00
young people in the Tampa area who are selected from local 09:16:10:07
Hispanic organizations. 09:16:12:18
The scholarships are named in recognition of your long 09:16:14:03
contributions to the scholarship program and years of fighting 09:16:18:15
on behalf of the education of Hispanic youth. 09:16:21:12
We the members of Tampa City Council recognize your 09:16:24:15
accomplishments, and local, North Carolina environment from the 09:16:26:21
league of united Latin American citizens. 09:16:31:04
Congratulations. 09:16:35:00
(Applause). 09:16:38:27

Do you want to say a few words? 09:16:40:13
>>> Matilda: My son warned me not to speak over five minutes. 09:16:44:09
But I will make it maybe five seconds. 09:16:47:21
I want to thank this illustrious group. 09:16:49:25
And I feel very humbled and deserving. 09:16:53:27
But I really appreciate the honor. 09:16:57:19
I have wrote for the Hispanic community when my grandfather came 09:17:01:13
to Tampa, there were only 29 families. 09:17:04:13
And since then, my family has been active in the Hispanic 09:17:07:04
community. 09:17:11:06
When I introduce myself in a group, I always say, if it has 2 09:17:11:18
the word Hispanic, I'm in it. 09:17:16:00
And professional women, mayor's Hispanic advisory council, 09:17:18:00
Hispanic -- on and on and on. 09:17:22:15
So I love to be with people. 09:17:25:00
I think that comes from being the second of nine children. 09:17:28:09
My little daughter is the baby. 09:17:31:27
He's the smartest because he learned from us, he says. 09:17:34:24
So anyway I'm honored to be here. 09:17:39:03
And I deeply appreciate it. 09:17:40:27
Thank you very much. 09:17:42:15
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think some members of council might want to 09:17:43:04
speak to you. 09:17:52:22
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Hi, Matilda. 09:17:53:03
I've known you for a very, very long time, and I am really proud 09:17:56:12

of you for all that you've done for the Hispanic community. 09:17:59:16
You are an icon, as you know for the Hispanic heritage and I 09:18:02:22
want to congratulate you for everything that you have done in 09:18:09:21
all your lifetime. 09:18:11:15
And I know a lot of your family members. 09:18:12:15
So I feel like I'm one of your family, too. 09:18:14:12
Thank you so much. 09:18:16:27
>>> Matilda: My mother made baby boots for your son. 09:18:19:04
>>MARY ALVAREZ: And sweater. 09:18:26:07
I still have them. 09:18:27:18
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: You're really a role model to all of us. 09:18:29:00
You are an active activist, as a person who has been doing this 09:18:33:12
for many decades. 09:18:37:00
You don't seem to have slowed down a bit. 09:18:38:03
And given all the things that need work in our community, you 09:18:40:03
truly are a -- you're wonderful and we appreciate you. 09:18:43:12
And that's why we're happy you're here today, to get some of the 09:18:48:19
thanks you deserve. 09:18:51:24
>>> Matilda: Thank you. 09:18:55:13
(Applause). 09:18:58:28
>>CHAIRMAN: We go to the approval of the agenda. 09:19:05:24
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a favor to ask. 09:19:07:09
And that is, there's a 10:00 public hearing. 09:19:09:04
And I wondered if we could have it close to 10:00. 09:19:11:24
I know it's a radical concept. 09:19:14:15

It's number 41. 09:19:22:12
It's about the cigar factory properties. 09:19:23:27
As you know, the first time this came up, it was scheduled for 09:19:26:09
10:00. 09:19:30:24
But it didn't come up till about two in the afternoon. 09:19:31:06
So I have asked people to come down. 09:19:33:22
I said I was going to request that we try to hear this specific 09:19:36:03
one at 10:00 at a Curt easy to these people. 09:19:39:09
So that would be my request. 09:19:42:16
It might not be on the dot. 09:19:44:12
So it's not a change on the agenda. 09:19:48:13
>>GWEN MILLER: Other changes to the agenda? 09:19:49:21
>>MARY ALVAREZ: So moved. 09:19:58:21
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes. 09:20:00:19
Number 19, which is on my committee, I would like to pull it for 09:20:01:18
discussion purposes. 09:20:04:19
>>GWEN MILLER: Anything else? 09:20:05:00
We can get a motion. 09:20:09:27
>>MARY ALVAREZ: So moved. 09:20:10:19
>> Second. 09:20:12:21
(Motion carried). 09:20:12:25
>>GWEN MILLER: We go to Mr. Sal Territo. 09:20:15:27
>>SAL TERRITO: Legal department, Sal Territo here on item number 09:20:26:09
30 and 34. 09:20:30:03
Didn't know if you had any questions on those items. 09:20:30:28

They are dealing with the special assessments for the downtown, 09:20:33:27
the Westshore district, it's the annual contract that we do with 09:20:35:25
them to perform the duties and the work that we need based on 09:20:38:28
the assessment that we collect for them. 09:20:42:01
I didn't know if you had any questions on that. 09:20:44:06
I'm here to speak on that. 09:20:46:18
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Chairman -- or Ms. Chairman. 09:20:48:09
Sorry. 09:20:53:07
Just waking up this morning. 09:20:53:15
I wanted to be sure we had the public hearings, we had the 09:20:55:00
public input. 09:20:57:06
I remember the discussions in August. 09:20:57:28
So everything in terms of accepting public comment has been 09:20:59:10
done. 09:21:03:03
>>SAL TERRITO: That's correct. This is just a follow-up with 09:21:03:06
the contract. 09:21:06:16
This is not the assessments since we have already done those. 09:21:07:01
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you. 09:21:09:13
>>MARY ALVAREZ: I remember the discussions that we had when we 09:21:10:13
were talking with the downtown partnership, and the Westshore, I 09:21:14:24
remember Ron Rotella coming up. 09:21:18:12
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you. 09:21:20:06
Ms. Cathy Coyle. 09:21:21:15
>>CATHERINE COYLE: Good morning. 09:21:28:00
Cathy Coyle, land development. 09:21:30:04

I did forward a memo to you yesterday afternoon regarding a few 09:21:31:22
cases presented as walk-on items for January 19th. 09:21:34:12
I could have sent them through for next week. 09:21:39:12
However, it would have given the petitioners approximately four 09:21:41:12
days to Do get notice. 09:21:44:07
So in Curt easy to them to make sure they get their notice done 09:21:46:00
properly in a timely fashion I was hoping you would consider 09:21:49:06
accepting them today. 09:21:52:03
The first one on the memo, I'll go to number 2 actually, WZ 09:21:52:25
05-125, it is a hotel on Fowler Avenue. 09:21:57:22
It is scheduled for January 19th, 2006, at 10 a.m. 09:22:01:18
>>GWEN MILLER: Do we have a motion? 09:22:07:03
>>MARY ALVAREZ: So moved. 09:22:09:13
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second. 09:22:11:03
(Motion carried). 09:22:11:22
>>CATHERINE COYLE: Number 3, WZ 06-13, 1313 south Dale Mabry, 09:22:13:10
the Publix. 09:22:18:18
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved. 09:22:19:24
>>MARY ALVAREZ: is this a new one or the same one? 09:22:22:24
Do we need another wet zoning? 09:22:25:28
>>CATHERINE COYLE: They are expanding. 09:22:28:01
Their liquor store, they are actually adding on a separate 09:22:29:09
liquor store. 09:22:31:25
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Okay. 09:22:32:12
Thank you. 09:22:34:00

Go ahead. 09:22:34:10
>>CATHERINE COYLE: January 19th at 10 a.m. 09:22:34:18
>> So moved. 09:22:38:00
>> Second. 09:22:38:15
(Motion carried). 09:22:38:19
>>CATHERINE COYLE: It's January 19th. 09:22:39:12
I apologize. 09:22:43:27
It's a typo on the memo. 09:22:44:19
>>CATHERINE COYLE: Did you vote? 09:22:51:18
I'm sorry. 09:22:52:15
WZ 06-14. 09:22:53:03
This is a Publix on Tampa Palms Boulevard. 09:22:54:24
They also are expanding a liquor store for January 19th, 09:22:57:09
2006, 10 a.m. 09:23:00:09
>> So moved. 09:23:02:12
>> Second. 09:23:03:00
(Motion carried). 09:23:03:04
>>CATHERINE COYLE: Number 1 on the memo, WZ 05-146. 09:23:03:24
This is the wet zoning for the MOSI science museum. 09:23:07:25
There is a rezoning for the night of January 12th at 6 p.m. 09:23:12:00
And we were asking to run this concurrently along with the 09:23:15:15
rezoning, if council would consider. 09:23:18:09
>>MARY ALVAREZ: So moved. 09:23:20:04
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second. 09:23:23:06
(Motion carried). 09:23:24:03

>>CATHERINE COYLE: The last item. 09:23:25:09
Yesterday the petitioner for Z 05-151, they misnoticed a couple 09:23:26:10
of sessions ago. 09:23:30:28
They came in and paid the amendment foe and we did have an open 09:23:31:24
slot for March 9, 2006, at 6 p.m. 09:23:34:28
>> So moved. 09:23:39:15
>> Second. 09:23:40:03
[Motion Carried] 09:23:40:15
>>CATHERINE COYLE: Thank you. 09:23:40:25
>>GWEN MILLER: We go to unfinished business, item number 2. 09:23:43:07
>>MARY ALVAREZ: I guess it's a resolution. 09:23:45:21
>> So moved. 09:23:59:06
>> Second. 09:23:59:24
(Motion carried). 09:23:59:28
>>GWEN MILLER: Item 3. 09:24:01:01
Ordinance for first reading. 09:24:05:09
Mr. Thom Snelling. 09:24:06:18
>>DAVID SMITH: City attorney. 09:24:26:21
We have one very minor correction we want to provide you. 09:24:28:07
Donna has those ordinances to redistribute. 09:24:32:09
I'll tell you exactly what that is. 09:24:35:18
It's on page 4. 09:24:37:06
If you don't have it in front of you, I'll tell you what it is 09:24:40:09
before you get it. 09:24:42:25
All we really did was made it clear that mere ownership of stock 09:24:44:03

in a corporation does not constitute doing business. 09:24:47:06
That would be an issue under the ethics ordinance. 09:24:49:28
So if you own stock in whatever, that doesn't constitute a 09:24:53:01
violation. 09:24:57:21
So -- yes, ma'am? 09:24:58:15
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Tell us again. 09:25:00:19
>>DAVID SMITH: Oh. 09:25:01:15
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Actually I have a question after we -- 09:25:04:24
>>DAVID SMITH: I think everyone was here last week. 09:25:10:03
Maybe not Ms. Ferlita. 09:25:13:01
We have bifurcated this process. 09:25:14:09
Maybe Mr. White may not have been here. 09:25:16:22
The version that you have before you is in essence what I'd call 09:25:19:00
a glitch bill. 09:25:23:07
It corrects some of the contradictions and language, clarifies 09:25:24:15
the conflict of interest issue that got a bit broad in its 09:25:28:27
scope. 09:25:33:03
And primarily, tightens down provisions that has a provision 09:25:33:15
that if you meet with a person with the city and in essence lob 09:25:38:03
that I person but there's nothing currently pending it's not 09:25:43:28
lobbying under the ordinance as drafted. 09:25:46:06
So what we are trying to do is also prevent somebody from 09:25:48:18
lobbying first, filing subsequently, and then not going through 09:25:51:03
the disclosure process. 09:25:54:28
So we have a provision that says if you have met with someone in 09:25:56:10

private about an issue that isn't currently pending but you 09:26:02:06
subsequently file, then you have to file your disclosure as 09:26:05:00
though you filed on the date as -- as though you lobbied on the 09:26:08:15
date that you met. 09:26:13:03
So it clarifies, prevents -- in essence tries to close that loop 09:26:13:27
hole. 09:26:18:06
I don't know how many people have been using that. 09:26:18:18
But what we have done is we have used a 12-month time period. 09:26:20:12
Obviously that can be short end if you think that's appropriate 09:26:24:06
but 12 months is similar to what we do in state law. 09:26:28:07
When you're a lobbyist and when you're not. 09:26:31:18
Essentially, that's it. 09:26:34:06
I'll provide you won't provide you additional detail as I did 09:26:37:06
last week. 09:26:41:21
But primary detail in the change in the language it's very 09:26:42:10
brief. 09:26:45:09
It talks about active participation as opposed to passive. 09:26:45:21
And it says the mere ownership of stock in a privately held or 09:26:48:16
publicly traded company shall not constitute active 09:26:51:16
participation in that business entity. 09:26:55:00
Serving as an officer, director or only a controlling financial 09:26:57:18
interest therein shall constitute active participation. 09:27:00:07
So we are trying to avoid inadd vert end violations as best we 09:27:04:18
can. 09:27:08:16
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Smith, I have a question. 09:27:08:24

Currently, if I own some property, and an adjacent property 09:27:12:13
comes up for rezoning, the legal department is interpreting I'm 09:27:17:00
not allowed to vote on it, which I completely understand, but 09:27:21:27
I'm also not allowed to speak on the issue. 09:27:24:28
Is that addressed in this ordinance? 09:27:27:06
>>DAVID SMITH: I don't believe that is addressed in this 09:27:30:10
ordinance. 09:27:33:06
By the way, I should indicate that Marty, Donna Wysong and I 09:27:34:21
worked on this collectively, and I don't believe we addressed 09:27:39:19
that issue. 09:27:44:07
Do you remember? 09:27:45:07
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I understand not being able to vote on it. 09:27:47:12
That's an obvious, direct conflict. 09:27:50:12
But I believe that not being able to speak is sort of a 09:27:52:12
limitation. 09:27:56:09
>>DAVID SMITH: I think the provision you're referring to would 09:27:57:25
be section 2-520, which has been deleted. 09:27:59:25
And this is what I would call the extended voting conflict 09:28:03:06
concept. 09:28:08:03
And we did delete the language, if you look at it, no city 09:28:12:03
official shall vote or participant in any way. 09:28:16:03
So what the question really is what current state law requires. 09:28:20:10
And Donna would probably address that more. 09:28:23:07
>> Donna Wysong: Legal department. 09:28:26:22
In section 2-519, which we are making no changes to in this 09:28:29:21

ordinance, it does say that no city official shall vote or 09:28:34:27
participate in his or her official capacity on any matter. 09:28:38:00
And then it goes on to say restrictions. 09:28:41:15
So that is still in the ordinance, not affected by this 09:28:44:24
ordinance. 09:28:47:09
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Let's say I had a house in the neighborhood 09:28:48:09
and the neighborhood was going to get a park, that would be 09:28:50:25
arm's length enough so that I could vote on that park in the 09:28:54:09
neighborhood in which I had a house. 09:28:57:21
>>> It would seem that would be a situation where your 09:28:59:16
particular interest is no different than anyone else's in the 09:29:02:00
neighborhood. 09:29:04:12
In other words, you would be in a class of similarly situated 09:29:04:24
individuals, and that that would be okay in that particular 09:29:09:12
instance. 09:29:12:07
>>DAVID SMITH: The prohibition applies when you have a special 09:29:12:19
private gain, or a special private gain of any person to whom 09:29:17:15
you are married. 09:29:22:04
So it has to be some kind of direct relationship in order for 09:29:22:24
you to be proscribed. 09:29:25:27
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I can understand the not voting, but the word 09:29:27:28
participate, meaning like speak to council, write to counsel or 09:29:32:06
something like that. 09:29:35:15
>>DAVID SMITH: The concept behind it is that if you have a 09:29:38:00
conflict of interest, you should abstain as much as possible 09:29:41:15

from affecting the process. 09:29:44:24
Voting is clearly -- may affect the process. 09:29:46:09
And in addition to that, if you were to speak and address the 09:29:50:01
issue, that would be influencing it. 09:29:53:18
And what 519 does is proscribe that. 09:29:57:03
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: State law or local? 09:29:59:18
Is that state or local? 09:30:02:06
>>DAVID SMITH: That's currently in our local code. 09:30:04:13
>>DONNA WYSONG: I believe that parallels state code. 09:30:12:16
>>DAVID SMITH: So we couldn't change it anyway. 09:30:14:24
>>GWEN MILLER: Any other questions? 09:30:17:15
>> I'll move it. 09:30:19:09
>>GWEN MILLER: Read the ordinance, please. 09:30:20:06
Do we have a new ordinance or do we read this one? 09:30:22:01
>>DAVID SMITH: We just circulated. 09:30:25:22
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Don't we need to hear from the public on it? 09:30:27:21
>>DAVID SMITH: This is your first meeting. 09:30:30:21
It's up to you. 09:30:32:06
>>GWEN MILLER: Would you read it, Ms. Saul-Sena? 09:30:32:28
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes, Madam Chairman. 09:30:37:04
Sure, if you like. 09:30:38:24
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Well, if ask if there's anybody. 09:30:42:04
>>GWEN MILLER: Is there anybody in the public that he would like 09:30:44:04
to speak on item number 3? 09:30:45:27
>> Move to close. 09:30:48:03

>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move an ordinance of the city of Tampa, 09:30:48:18
Florida amending City of Tampa ethics code chapter 2, article 09:30:52:12
VIII, section 2-502, definitions by amending the definition of 09:30:56:00
lobbying to include communication on any item that comes before 09:31:00:15
the city official within one year, by amending the definition of 09:31:03:25
lobbyist to exclude government employees and quasi-governmental 09:31:07:06
employees, by defining quasi-government agency or entity, 09:31:10:12
section 2-512 may oral approval required for non-city employment 09:31:15:03
or private business enterprises of appointed employees, by 09:31:19:21
limiting mayoral approval to department directors and adding 09:31:22:24
department director approval for departmental employees section 09:31:26:06
2-514 prohibition against receipt of benefit from contracts with 09:31:29:01
the city, by limiting the restriction to contracts with the 09:31:34:06
department for which the employee or official works, by allowing 09:31:37:16
the department to request an advisory opinion, section 2-520 09:31:41:03
additional voting conflicts, by repealing and deleting section 09:31:46:03
2-520, section 2-581, post employment restrictions, 09:31:49:10
representations of others before city, by deleting after June 09:31:53:27
15, 1989, amending chapter 2, article VIII, by changing all 09:31:57:15
references to business enterprise, to business entity, providing 09:32:05:07
for severability, repealing conflict, providing an effective 09:32:07:25
date. 09:32:09:24
>>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second. 09:32:10:03
All in favor of the motion say Aye. 09:32:11:25
Opposed, Nay. 09:32:13:06

(Motion carried) 09:32:13:21
Item number 4. 09:32:14:15
Do we need to vote on that one? 09:32:17:03
>>DAVID SMITH: David Smith again. 09:32:18:25
Item number 4 deals with the second part of the ethics 09:32:20:07
ordinance. This deals with any changes you might be considering 09:32:22:27
to the gift provisions. 09:32:26:22
And what was decided last week, I believe, was to sever that 09:32:30:03
out. 09:32:33:09
The ethics commission itself is meeting this afternoon, as a 09:32:34:01
matter of fact, at 3:00. 09:32:37:00
They had a recommendation on this topic. 09:32:38:00
We prepared an ordinance that we think is in conformance with 09:32:40:16
the recommendation, but they have not yet had a chance to see it 09:32:43:24
and tell us that they concur that it conforms to what they would 09:32:47:12
like to recommend. 09:32:50:18
So the question today is whether you are going to continue it, 09:32:51:18
terminate it, not deal with it any more at all, but it would 09:32:55:27
certainly not be ripe for passage today because we think we need 09:32:59:10
to get to you. 09:33:03:27
There's at least several different versions that we think you 09:33:04:19
should see if you're moving forward with analyzing the gift 09:33:07:12
provisions. 09:33:10:06
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I thought item 4 was sort of a stalled thing 09:33:16:18
because it was a 3-1 vote. 09:33:20:03

>>DAVID SMITH: That's right, there was a vote. 09:33:21:27
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Something about putting this on the agenda in 09:33:25:21
January. 09:33:27:28
>>> There was a motion to put it on January 26 and it was 3-1 in 09:33:29:01
favor so it didn't have the number needed to pass and I believe 09:33:32:18
councilwoman Ferlita and Councilman White were not present. 09:33:35:27
>>MARY ALVAREZ: I think that we ought to go ahead and move it, 09:33:38:27
to continue on to January 26 and see what the ethics commission 09:33:45:24
has to say about it. 09:33:49:15
Then at that time we can really make up our minds whether it's 09:33:51:07
the thing to do or not. 09:33:54:09
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Last time, there was a tremendous amount of 09:33:55:18
confusion and I think the action of council was really 09:34:02:27
misconstrued. 09:34:05:16
What I would like is a clear executive summary of the different 09:34:06:13
options open to us. 09:34:08:28
And I would like this to be on our agenda, not necessarily as 09:34:11:15
something we are going to vote on but something we are going to 09:34:16:21
discuss and really understand. 09:34:18:28
I felt that council really was tremendously misunderstood last 09:34:20:06
time, and I felt that our understanding of the different options 09:34:24:06
before us wasn't terrifically clear. 09:34:27:15
I want clarity. 09:34:29:12
So I will vote for this to come back on the 26th with an 09:34:31:03
annotated through executive summary of the different options 09:34:36:13

before us. 09:34:39:06
>>DAVID SMITH: We actually have already prepared one, but we 09:34:39:16
will make sure it's sharpened and clarified even more. 09:34:42:06
That's an excellent point. 09:34:45:10
We will do that. 09:34:46:25
And I agree, I think there was some misunderstanding. 09:34:47:15
We need to avoid that. 09:34:49:27
>>MARY ALVAREZ: And I think it's fair to give the ethics 09:34:51:01
commission a chance to tell us, you know, what they've come up 09:34:54:18
with, and then we can have a better understanding of whether we 09:34:58:12
want to go ahead with it or not. 09:35:01:13
So I think your suggestion is good, and I would support that, 09:35:02:28
too. 09:35:07:13
>>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion on the floor, and we need to 09:35:07:18
vote on it. 09:35:11:01
All in favor of putting it on January 26th, agenda, say Aye. 09:35:13:00
Opposed, Nay. 09:35:18:18
>>ROSE FERLITA: We are simply voting to continue discussing. 09:35:19:00
>>GWEN MILLER: July 26th. 09:35:25:00
>>DAVID SMITH: Thank you very much. 09:35:29:15
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you. 09:35:30:06
Item number 5. 09:35:31:27
Now Mr. Thom Snelling. 09:35:40:21
>>THOM SNELLING: Land Development Coordination. 09:35:52:28
We are back here again to discuss the chapter 13 tree and 09:35:54:21

landscape code. 09:35:58:07
I know that you have received also a letter from the Tampa Bay 09:35:59:15
builders association, read that and I'll answer any questions 09:36:03:15
you may have about the subject matter there. 09:36:10:18
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just want to share with the members in the 09:36:26:15
audience who are part of the tree board that at last week's 09:36:29:21
meeting we had neither you all nor any of the neighborhood 09:36:34:18
people who were serving on the tree board. 09:36:37:24
And I asked at the meeting if Thom and Gloria had notified you 09:36:41:06
all, and he said that he had. 09:36:44:24
But then at the end of the meeting I said, why do you think 09:36:46:04
nobody was here? 09:36:49:00
They said, actually, I think we notified them in September or 09:36:51:06
the beginning of October for the meeting December 1st. 09:36:54:15
So I think that's what happened. 09:36:58:03
>>> Just for clarification, on August 8th we sent all the 09:37:01:21
board members a copy of the packet that we were talking about 09:37:04:21
last week, notifying them that they had the September 12th 09:37:07:19
Planning Commission meeting. 09:37:12:06
At the time, the actual public hearing for discussion at City 09:37:14:04
Council had not been set at the time that first packet went out 09:37:18:15
in August. 09:37:22:00
Subsequently, my office failed to notify anybody. 09:37:23:09
And I wish I had a very good reason other than just being very 09:37:29:03
busy, and it was something that we didn't do properly and 09:37:33:00

effective. 09:37:38:13
So in reality, whereas the committee, all the committee members 09:37:38:28
did know and received their packet to have the discussion at the 09:37:43:03
Planning Commission meeting on September 12th, the follow-up 09:37:45:15
notice from my office to the board member -- or the task force 09:37:50:03
members did not go out notifying them that there was a meeting 09:37:53:15
last week. 09:37:56:21
So when I answered you, Gloria and I talked about it, and I 09:37:57:07
think I already did, so when I answered last week I was 09:38:02:22
answering honestly, I thought we had sent it out but when we 09:38:06:03
went back to the office and found out what the actual letter 09:38:09:21
said, we realized that did not notify of the specifically date 09:38:12:00
it was come back to council. 09:38:16:13
So the fact that Tampa Bay Builders Association and their 09:38:17:18
representative Mr. Fernandez was not notified is true, but none 09:38:20:06
of the other committee members were notified either. 09:38:24:09
Gloria and I had talked about this internal what we thought 09:38:27:28
should happen. 09:38:31:07
You have before you the changes in that code that were discussed 09:38:32:03
last week about the changes of clarifying the language, when 09:38:35:15
property can be utilized. 09:38:41:00
About the language, about the specific hardships that we added 09:38:43:09
back in. 09:38:46:03
That came from council. 09:38:46:25
And also the changes about filing an affidavit with the county 09:38:48:27

clerk's office about notice and affidavit that goes along with 09:38:54:21
the property. 09:38:58:00
Those changes were brought back in. 09:38:58:15
My understanding is, I was talking to the government liaison, 09:39:01:15
their basic desire -- and they are here and they can speak for 09:39:05:24
themselves -- but their desire is to have additional time to 09:39:09:19
look at this, to step back and see if there's more common ground 09:39:13:00
that can be reached on these two or three issues. 09:39:16:03
I know that the so-called phantom tree issue was one of the 09:39:18:07
issues that they had some concerns with. 09:39:21:21
And then also there is another point of clarification about the 09:39:25:19
encroachment into the tree radius of four feet to six feet. 09:39:32:03
In reality that's just a clarification of what's already in the 09:39:37:21
existing tech manual. 09:39:40:00
This is really just a clarification. 09:39:41:21
There is a change in that. 09:39:44:00
I know that that is another area that they did want to talk 09:39:45:12
about. 09:39:47:28
To my recollection, it's those two primary issues that were the 09:39:48:13
areas of a lot of discussion that's the subject matter. 09:39:54:00
Staff has no problem with, you know, having another workshop, 09:39:56:25
going, you know, whatever is council's pleasure to allow the 09:40:01:12
other committee members that may not be in complete agreement 09:40:08:28
with this code to discuss and have their opportunity to have 09:40:11:24
their positions heard in a more casual, informal workshop 09:40:16:07

format, whichever direction council wants to go. 09:40:21:21
The bottom line is that my office was just very busy, and we did 09:40:25:15
not give the notification out in time. 09:40:31:18
>>ROSE FERLITA: Mr. Snelling, I was very anxious to interrupt 09:40:36:06
you. 09:40:38:06
I think your explanation was accurate, sincere. 09:40:38:13
But almost like over too apologetic. 09:40:41:24
Outside I was just kidding you about this being a week in a 09:40:45:21
series of one that I haven't bothered you about 100,000 issues 09:40:49:15
and I'm sure that's the same with the rest of my colleagues. 09:40:53:00
I think we can remedy this looking forward because I think you 09:40:56:12
all are maxed out. 09:41:00:06
Don't want an answer. 09:41:01:28
You don't have to defend your department. 09:41:03:13
I want to defend your department. 09:41:05:06
When you and Gloria come up and say you think that is done, you 09:41:06:15
are saying that in true honest recognition that you think it is 09:41:09:28
done. 09:41:12:21
It wasn't done. 09:41:13:00
It's not a big deal. 09:41:13:21
You guys are very, very busy. The flip side of that is I think 09:41:14:22
that we are beyond four for trees, against trees, for the 09:41:17:21
builders, and against the builders. 09:41:21:15
He and his crew are here and that shows honestest on their part 09:41:24:06
about wanting to discuss something further. 09:41:27:24

This is something that should be deliberated adequately for both 09:41:29:09
sides, regardless of what your opinions are and what your 09:41:33:03
preferences are. 09:41:35:15
So you have, as I said, explained what happened, and I accept 09:41:36:07
that as a very logical and explanation of what has occurred. 09:41:40:18
But in terms of what the Tampa Bay builders are requesting, 09:41:43:28
very, very fair request, and I'm not ready to move forward until 09:41:48:12
they have their opportunity to interact. 09:41:52:07
So I wanted to weigh in on that. 09:41:56:03
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Mr. Snelling, I too accept your explanation on 09:41:58:22
that. 09:42:04:27
But the fact remains that we do have to listen to the Tampa Bay 09:42:05:09
builders association, and according to their letter they do have 09:42:09:03
some grave concerns. 09:42:13:15
So I think in order for us to be fair, we need to find a way to 09:42:14:12
have either another workshop, or you tell us what you think we 09:42:18:28
need to do. 09:42:24:03
Because this has gone far beyond -- I think two years now that 09:42:25:00
we have been talking about a tree ordinance. 09:42:32:16
So you tell us what you want us to do. 09:42:37:00
>>THOM SNELLING: Okay. 09:42:38:18
Well, I think what they really want to do is have an opportunity 09:42:43:13
to address council. 09:42:46:16
>>ROSE FERLITA: You're talking about now or in a workshop? 09:42:47:09
You're talking about now or in a workshop? 09:42:51:21

>>THOM SNELLING: He can answer that question because I think 09:42:54:22
they want at least an opportunity. 09:42:56:16
>>GWEN MILLER: Okay. 09:42:57:24
Come up and speak. 09:42:59:10
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Let me make a suggestion. 09:43:02:28
Thank you. 09:43:05:21
While he's coming up, I have to say, we have so many meetings 09:43:06:07
about this, and what we came up with was not complete agreement, 09:43:09:13
but what shook out were the areas about which there was the 09:43:14:21
greatest amount of agreement. 09:43:18:21
I think what we need to do is have counsel here from both sides 09:43:20:00
at a scheduled workshop that Thom's crew does a better job of 09:43:25:27
letting everybody know about. 09:43:30:09
>>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder? 09:43:31:09
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: We are here, according to the agenda, item 5, 09:43:36:15
we are here for first reading on this ordinance. 09:43:40:22
I think that we call for the public to speak during the public 09:43:45:01
hearing for the first reading. 09:43:49:12
That's why -- 09:43:51:06
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Did you get this letter? 09:43:57:12
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I saw the letter. 09:43:59:09
The bottom line is we can waive the rules. 09:44:00:24
We have it here for first reading. 09:44:02:24
We should ask for public comment on the first reading. 09:44:04:12
We don't have to go back to a workshop. 09:44:06:16

If our rules say that we shouldn't allow public comment today, 09:44:09:00
then we'll waive the rules and do it today. 09:44:11:15
I see at least four people from the Tampa Bay builders 09:44:15:01
association are here today to share with us what their opinions 09:44:18:04
about what we will or will not do. 09:44:23:00
So why do we need to drag it on and on and on forever? 09:44:25:09
>>MARY ALVAREZ: I agree with you. 09:44:29:01
That's why I was asking Mr. Snelling to give us some direction. 09:44:30:03
>>GWEN MILLER: Let's hear from Mr. Northwood. 09:44:33:15
>>THOM SNELLING: Actually Mr. Fernandez. 09:44:40:07
>>GWEN MILLER: Let me hear from Mr. Fernandez. 09:44:42:18
>>> Bud Fernandez, Tampa Bay Builders Association. 09:44:45:21
I think that the thing that we have is I think there's really a 09:44:48:13
few issues. 09:44:54:12
We came together on a lot of issues during the work shop. 09:44:54:27
So what I think we are requesting is a more informal, to get 09:44:57:12
clarification, on some of the wording in the ordinance. 09:45:02:15
There appears to be some items that we had agreement on that 09:45:05:10
aren't stated the same way in the ordinance. 09:45:08:16
So we'd like to know, why is that? 09:45:10:18
Where is it? 09:45:12:24
So it's really a little different forum than coming before you 09:45:13:24
here and stating our case. 09:45:17:21
I don't think there's that many issues that -- some of them, 09:45:19:21
obviously there's a great divide on. 09:45:24:21

So I think what we would like to see is one final, informal 09:45:29:01
workshop, with counsel or without council, but to get 09:45:32:27
clarification of what we are presenting to council. 09:45:36:10
We really don't have that clarification at this point. 09:45:39:18
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Are you prepared now to tell us what your 09:45:41:25
concerns are, that we can listen to it while we are all here 09:45:46:27
now? 09:45:50:15
>>> Fernandez: Well, we are prepared on some of the issues. 09:45:53:06
But there's some confusion on others. 09:45:56:09
I mean, there's areas that we agreed upon in the workshop that I 09:45:58:19
don't see in the ordinance that's being provided. 09:46:01:24
For example, canopy is not mentioned in here. 09:46:06:06
We define canopy in the workshop. 09:46:09:12
It was in the draft. 09:46:11:13
It's not in the ordinance. 09:46:12:27
So, I mean, there's a lot of items. 09:46:14:04
I think some of them should be very simple to go through and 09:46:17:21
say, okay, this is in or it's not in because of this, and go. 09:46:21:01
I mean, the main thing is the two-year hiatus on pulling a 09:46:24:06
building permit for the demolition of a grand tree, when it's 09:46:31:07
potentially involved with structure, is something that we are 09:46:38:09
opposed to. 09:46:42:25
That was something that we didn't come to agreement on during 09:46:43:10
the workshop. 09:46:45:21
I mean, there's two issues. 09:46:46:21

But if that's what's going to be presented, we would like an 09:46:48:21
opportunity in the wording of that, because if that's what the 09:46:52:09
group in the whole, the committee, agrees on, then I think we 09:47:00:15
should review what staff is doing before it comes here, as a 09:47:04:01
group, not individually, as a group, because there's different 09:47:07:04
points of view. 09:47:09:27
And we may clarify it. 09:47:10:21
So there's an acceptable methods to come to you with. 09:47:12:19
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I volunteer to have yet -- hopefully maybe 09:47:17:07
our final meeting at union station, let's pick a date that's 09:47:21:06
convenient, maybe the beginning of January, and then bring it 09:47:25:01
back to council. 09:47:29:09
I would agree to that. 09:47:32:28
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Can you make it the second week of January? 09:47:33:28
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Sure. 09:47:37:15
>>GWEN MILLER: We need to continue. 09:47:38:04
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Usually you have to continue things to a date 09:47:39:28
certain. 09:47:43:19
So let's continue this till, let's say, the end of January, and 09:47:44:00
if we don't come to agreement at the workshop, the last week of 09:47:47:21
January. 09:47:51:13
>>GWEN MILLER: Let's hear from Mr. Smith first. 09:47:51:18
>>DAVID SMITH: City attorney. 09:47:53:16
I only had something I feel obligated to point out to you as 09:47:57:06
your attorney that I want to get your guidance on, because 09:48:00:13

whether at a workshop or here, I want to know what council wants 09:48:03:00
to do on that issue, and I'm referring specifically to notice 09:48:06:03
and appeal. 09:48:08:21
And I'm also referring specifically to this two-year demolition 09:48:09:13
issue. 09:48:12:21
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We don't know. 09:48:13:01
We need to talk about it in workshop. 09:48:14:12
>>DAVID SMITH: Well, let me ask you my question, and if you 09:48:16:06
don't know then we'll workshop it. 09:48:19:12
But what you have us doing is providing notice to adjacent 09:48:21:12
property owners when you have a hazardous tree issue. 09:48:24:04
We are not providing notice and opportunity to be heard to 09:48:27:04
adjacent property owners with you you are removing a tree Dee 09:48:29:12
due to a default that may damage the structure structure 09:48:32:15
F.that's the ruling of council that's what we'll do. 09:48:37:21
But we are not providing that notice to adjacent property owners 09:48:39:22
that situation. 09:48:42:16
Nor are we proceeding notice when they come back and appeal for 09:48:43:06
waiving the two year prohibition. 09:48:46:25
If you want to workshop it we can deal with all of that. 09:48:49:01
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can I speak to that real quick? 09:48:51:09
The first part, I have no problem with no notice to the 09:48:53:19
neighbors. 09:48:58:03
If it's an emergency situation, if staff concludes that it's 09:48:58:12
structurally undermining the house, okay, then the neighborhood 09:49:01:07

input is irrelevant. 09:49:04:09
I mean, I hate to say that. 09:49:07:12
I'll be hung in the neighborhoods for saying it. 09:49:09:03
But it's true. 09:49:11:00
Okay. 09:49:12:09
But on the second part, there clearly should be neighborhood 09:49:12:21
notice on that second phase. 09:49:16:15
Because that second phase is more of an equitable consideration, 09:49:18:21
you know. 09:49:22:03
And I think the neighborhood and any other appropriate parties 09:49:22:21
neighborhood associations, adjacent neighbors, et cetera, should 09:49:27:03
have the standard notice. 09:49:29:18
So that would be my recommendation. 09:49:30:21
Linda, when you bring it back for your discussion -- I don't 09:49:33:00
think we should vote on that, but I think that would be an 09:49:36:00
appropriate direction as far as I can see. 09:49:39:04
>>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Ferlita? 09:49:40:22
>>ROSE FERLITA: Mr. Smith in, all respect, thank you for wanting 09:49:42:27
that to be clarified. 09:49:45:19
But I think we are getting beyond what we were asked today. 09:49:46:27
Mr. Snelling explained what the oversight was. 09:49:50:06
The builders association is just simply asking for the 09:49:53:04
opportunity to discuss those issues. 09:49:56:00
Don't think we need to define anything today. 09:49:57:15
We just need to afford them the opportunity to talk about some 09:49:59:16

of the issues that Mr. Fernandez said they still had a problem 09:50:03:00
with. 09:50:05:12
And that would probably be one of the things that might be 09:50:05:22
discussed at Ms. Saul-Sena's meeting. 09:50:07:27
>>DAVID SMITH: I agree. 09:50:11:24
I think part of the problem is there is some language they may 09:50:12:21
not have seen. 09:50:15:00
So we will have both approaches and specific language, so they 09:50:15:19
have an opportunity, as well as the neighbors and others, to 09:50:18:21
provide direct -- 09:50:22:21
>>ROSE FERLITA: And I think that's all that's going on this 09:50:23:27
morning. 09:50:26:01
>>MARY ALVAREZ: And also add canopies to it but there isn't 09:50:26:06
anything on canopies in here. 09:50:30:16
>>DAVID SMITH: Yes, ma'am. 09:50:32:15
>>GWEN MILLER: Other questions by council? 09:50:33:21
Ms. Lyons, would you like to speak? 09:50:43:24
>>> My name is Sue Lyon. 09:50:46:27
I'm here as a friend of the trees. 09:50:51:03
I realize the builders want notice, but the neighborhoods want 09:50:53:15
notice, too. 09:50:56:12
It's just one of those things that you do when you're doing a 09:50:59:10
big business. 09:51:03:28
But if we go back and start this all over again, it's not just 09:51:04:21
what the builders are not happy with. 09:51:08:18

The neighborhoods are not happy with it either. 09:51:10:25
Notification of adjacent property owners, a lot of things were 09:51:16:27
discussed in this thing. 09:51:20:06
If we are going to open this back up, we're opening a can of 09:51:22:22
worms. 09:51:26:21
They worked for two years. 09:51:27:22
I was not on the committee, but they worked hard and they worked 09:51:29:10
for two years, head to head on this, and they had everybody from 09:51:32:04
every group there. 09:51:35:09
They were all sent heavy duty package to look at. 09:51:37:00
And Gloria and Thom were good about saying, if there's any 09:51:42:24
problems, let me know. 09:51:47:03
Talk to me. 09:51:49:19
They have had two months to go over this. 09:51:50:22
It's not something that they are shy about talking to you all. 09:51:54:12
I'm not telling you what to do. 09:51:58:06
But I just wanted to let you know that if you open this up, it's 09:51:59:27
not just the builders that are going to want more explanations 09:52:03:16
and more things in this ordinance. 09:52:07:01
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Ms. Lyons, I appreciate your concern about this, 09:52:09:21
but I think it's only fair that we do notice everybody that's 09:52:15:15
concerned. 09:52:19:21
>>> I understand. 09:52:20:22
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Okay. 09:52:21:21
So I think that Ms. Saul-Sena's session about doing it again, 09:52:22:25

having a workshop at the end of January is good. 09:52:28:25
After all, we have to live with the builders association, too. 09:52:32:21
So I think it's only fair that we listen to everybody's 09:52:35:07
concerns, regardless of whether we open the door or close it. 09:52:37:18
>>> I'm not saying you shouldn't listen to them. 09:52:41:28
What I'm saying -- and this is a point of clarification for me. 09:52:45:06
If everybody listens and talks again, will there be changes in 09:52:50:00
the ordinance and do we have to renotice, and a meeting, and 09:52:55:03
what's the technical thing on there? 09:52:58:24
>>MARY ALVAREZ: I think the workshop should be just for the 09:53:03:24
concerns that the builders association has. 09:53:06:18
They mentioned canopies, and they mentioned the two-year 09:53:09:27
moratorium. 09:53:13:06
If they have got any other concerns, we are limited to that, not 09:53:14:03
to open it up again. 09:53:17:06
Because that's not the intent. 09:53:18:15
The intent is to listen to their concerns. 09:53:20:13
And they mentioned grave concerns. 09:53:23:25
Well, to me that's a grave concern, that they have a grave 09:53:25:12
concern. 09:53:29:24
>>> Will the neighborhoods is have the same opportunity? 09:53:31:15
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Absolutely. 09:53:36:03
But, Ms. Saul-Sena, we would limit it to what their concerns 09:53:37:06
are, not to reopen the whole thing. 09:53:39:19
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What I think would be constructive is to have 09:53:41:07

a workshop at union station, the second week in January, and 09:53:45:10
then bring it back to council, let everybody -- everybody know 09:53:49:03
that it's coming back to council on January 26th. 09:53:53:03
My anticipation based on two years of workshops is that they are 09:53:56:22
going -- there are going to be issues about what we do not have 09:54:01:00
consensus and ultimatelys it is up to council to thrash it out 09:54:05:12
but there are issues for people to better understand what is in 09:54:09:15
the ordinance. 09:54:12:00
So maybe we'll boil the number of issues down to two or three 09:54:13:03
which would make life easier. 09:54:16:15
So Madam Chairman, my motion would be to continue this until 09:54:18:00
January 26th at 1:30. 09:54:21:27
>>GWEN MILLER: Do we get a second? 09:54:24:12
>> Second. 09:54:28:06
>>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second. 09:54:28:09
Question on the motion? 09:54:29:18
>>ROSE FERLITA: I just want to make a comment after we do the 09:54:30:21
vote. 09:54:33:12
(Motion carried). 09:54:33:21
>>ROSE FERLITA: Madam Chairman, I just want to make this comment 09:54:35:03
to sue particularly. 09:54:38:03
Sue, it looks like maybe in your opinion we have done this and 09:54:39:06
we have done this long enough and certainly two years is two 09:54:43:00
years. 09:54:45:16
I'm anticipating the same problem. 09:54:46:07

The only time we do something that is of grave concern to 09:54:48:10
differing parties we are going to have this. 09:54:52:10
But at the end we want to make sure that everybody feels that 09:54:53:28
whether it was done exactly like they want it or not, they have 09:54:56:06
their fair opportunity to weigh in on it. 09:54:59:00
We have started many months ago to do the same type of thing, 09:55:02:12
comprehensive overview of the sign ordinance, on-site sign 09:55:07:04
ordinances. 09:55:11:13
And I guarantee when my committee comes back to update the 09:55:12:16
council, we are going to think we have done a good job. 09:55:15:09
And at that point we are going to have people that want to 09:55:17:21
rehash it again. 09:55:20:28
And that's part of the process. 09:55:21:28
So I think it's not necessarily discounting what two years of 09:55:24:00
work went into it but the fact that finally win or lose 09:55:28:07
everybody is happy that they were able to speak. 09:55:31:13
And in my case, Mrs. Saul-Sena, I not going to be two years 09:55:33:15
because I'm going to be gone in November, and I want this done 09:55:36:13
in another year. 09:55:39:00
But it's going to be the same thing. 09:55:40:12
So it's just part of the process that gets us to where we get. 09:55:41:22
No harm done. 09:55:44:16
Thom has explained what happened. 09:55:45:27
>>> Everybody gets a chance to talk. 09:55:47:22
>>ROSE FERLITA: Certainly. 09:55:48:27

That's the democratic process, of course. 09:55:50:10
>>> But I want to take this opportunity to thank the people who 09:55:53:16
worked on the tree board, on the tree ordinance, both sides. 09:55:57:03
It was a lot of work. 09:56:01:06
It was very expensive. 09:56:02:21
And Linda did a good job of running it and Thom and Gloria were 09:56:05:15
there. 09:56:08:28
It took a lot of time and energy. 09:56:09:06
And all these people really are concerned on both sides. 09:56:11:12
And they are good people. 09:56:15:15
And they deserve a chance to get this thing done one way or the 09:56:16:22
other. 09:56:21:03
So January is a good time. 09:56:21:18
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you. 09:56:22:25
Mr. Snelling. 09:56:26:12
>>THOM SNELLING: Just a couple of quick items related to this. 09:56:26:27
Do remember that my director Cindy Miller and Karen Palus do 09:56:31:10
have, in their mind, to revisit a lot of some of the others, in 09:56:37:16
a further discussion of many things. 09:56:44:15
They both explained that to you. 09:56:46:18
So that is still on the table. 09:56:47:25
So other changes that may -- that the builders association and 09:56:49:03
the neighborhood groups may want to see, we'll have a very good 09:56:53:00
opportunity for more substantive kinds of changes to take place 09:56:56:12
at that time. 09:56:59:10

And the second point I want to make is that I would like, you 09:57:00:09
know, to hone in on these things because this is what when we 09:57:04:07
came back to council a few months ago and said, this is kind of 09:57:08:00
where we are going. 09:57:11:18
Because these are the things that are a little bit less, you 09:57:12:10
know, troubling for folks, is to really kind of maybe hone in on 09:57:14:27
these issues, and I kind of agree. 09:57:18:27
You don't want to go back to square one. 09:57:21:21
But I think we have a real good 80% kind of document in front of 09:57:24:06
us now. 09:57:29:00
There may be some changes, some tweaking, some additions, some 09:57:29:10
subtractions. 09:57:32:10
But a complete reopening up, that would be a teeth cleaning I 09:57:33:21
would not like to participate in. 09:57:37:19
>>MARY ALVAREZ: That's not what we are advocating. 09:57:40:16
>>ROSE FERLITA: That's descriptive enough. 09:57:43:00
Teeth cleaning, I got it. 09:57:46:22
>>> I'm hearing council, I'm hearing the builders association, 09:57:49:06
and the neighborhood groups. 09:57:52:09
I have a pretty good idea what our charge needs to be. 09:57:53:09
And I appreciate the opportunity. 09:57:55:21
And again, I got to apologize to council for putting knew a bad 09:57:56:21
position for having to deal with this. 09:58:01:06
We'll do better. 09:58:02:22
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you. 09:58:03:15

We appreciate the hours that you put into it. 09:58:05:00
Before we go any further, we have some special guests with us 09:58:07:18
this morning. 09:58:10:04
We have the 9th grade class from the universal academy with 09:58:11:00
us, and would you all please stand so we can recognize you? 09:58:16:04
They are studying different forms of government. 09:58:20:13
So they chose City Council this morning to come see how City 09:58:22:24
Council is being run. 09:58:26:03
We are very happy to have you with us this morning. 09:58:27:27
Would you like to say something? 09:58:30:03
>>> Only that we appreciate being able to come here. 09:58:34:09
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you all for coming. 09:58:41:12
We appreciate you visiting with us. 09:58:42:22
We now go to number 6. 09:58:44:15
Mr. Lane, are you going to open it up? 09:58:46:15
>>CURTIS LANE: Curtis Lane, department of code enforcement. 09:58:53:06
First of all, I thank you for this opportunity. 09:58:56:04
We are here this morning to address item 6 under unfinished 09:58:58:15
business. 09:59:02:18
And that is code enforcement to appear, and provide a status 09:59:02:28
report on the following: The far enclosure process, the 09:59:07:00
settlement of leans and the implementation of the Hanson system. 09:59:12:03
You have also asked for code enforcement to provide a written 09:59:16:13
quarterly report of code enforcement activities. 09:59:20:07
And we would gladly do that. 09:59:23:10

What we want to have in that report that you will receive, 09:59:25:16
activities all over the city, and specifically we will phantom 09:59:31:28
that to the council, the four different council districts, as 09:59:36:27
well as city-wide districts. 09:59:39:15
So you will be able to look at other districts and see what's 09:59:41:22
going on in those districts as well. 09:59:44:22
So that being said, we have city staff here to address the 09:59:47:06
items, the first item would be the foreclosure process, and we 09:59:51:07
have assistant city attorney Jorge Martin will give you an 09:59:55:00
update on that process. 09:59:58:24
>>> Jorge Martin: Legal department, representing department of 10:00:04:19
code enforcement. 10:00:09:09
This morning, what I would like to present to you is a report, 10:00:10:21
both a quarterly report and some numbers and charts that will 10:00:15:06
put the quarterly report into some semblance of context. 10:00:20:03
The first item -- and I'm not seeing it there -- the code 10:00:25:15
collections for fines during the fiscal year 2004, showing you 10:00:30:06
196,955. The fiscal year for 2005 was 402,808.44. 10:00:38:22
And in the month of September, October and November, which is 10:00:48:18
roughly the last quarter, $145,108.63. 10:00:51:00
As you see the fiscal year collections from 2005 exceeded 2004 10:01:00:15
collections by 104%. 10:01:04:25
More than doubled. 10:01:07:09
And this year, what we have so far gives us grounds to think we 10:01:08:25
will exceed again those numbers -- exceed those numbers 10:01:15:03

substantially. 10:01:20:15
The second graph basically tracks the number of cases that we 10:01:27:24
have been handling in the last quarter by the legal collections 10:01:32:24
unit. 10:01:36:00
September, November greatly exceeded collections, and this 10:01:38:18
demonstrates that compliance is up. 10:01:45:25
The number of cases that we handled fine collections on anywhere 10:01:48:12
unless there is compliance. 10:01:53:12
Assessments, these are not fines by the Code Enforcement Board 10:02:03:09
but moneys spent for demolition and mowing for fiscal year 2004, 10:02:06:06
417,187. 10:02:12:15
418,092 in 2005, roughly the same amount. 10:02:15:27
In September and October of this year, we have come up with 10:02:19:12
144,668. 10:02:22:04
What we have on the pipeline for the next couple of months, we 10:02:24:18
have 500,000 by the end of activity. 10:02:28:27
Total collections report, again fiscal year 2004, 614,142. 10:02:35:27
Fiscal year 2005 was 620,900.44. 10:02:43:22
In the past three months, 289,776. 10:02:49:09
We have had delivered a packet to the City Council members 10:02:55:10
addressing the quarterly report. 10:03:00:12
It contains all of the cases that were handled during the past 10:03:04:03
three months, roughly the last quarter. 10:03:07:24
It tells you the date of violation, the date of compliance, the 10:03:11:00
amount of the settlement, and all the information that you 10:03:16:21

requested in your motion should be contained therein. 10:03:19:18
In recap, that is 143 files that were handled, 110 properties 10:03:28:09
were involed, and again all of those are compliant properties. 10:03:35:13
Lastly, we had the judicial foreclosure status. 10:03:39:24
We had five on November 4th, 2005, two foreclosure cases. 10:03:46:00
These are judicial foreclosures. These are not fine 10:03:51:12
collections. 10:03:52:25
The case -- first case City of Tampa involves a total of three 10:03:54:19
liens, including a mowing lien encumbering the property. 10:04:00:16
What we are doing with judicial foreclosures, we plan to 10:05:03:03
continue doing that. 10:05:06:15
Once we identify a property in violation and an owner that 10:05:07:06
matches that, we will foreclose all of the liens encumbering 10:05:13:01
that property in one action. 10:05:15:24
The second property, City of Tampa vs. -- 10:05:18:06
(Bell sounds) 10:05:21:00
>>GWEN MILLER: We need to get approval from the Council to 10:03:04:15
continue. 10:03:09:21
Can I get a motion for -- to waive the rules, the five-minutes 10:03:11:13
is up. 10:03:15:13
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Madam Chairman, I think that mostly staff is 10:03:18:00
involved in this, rather than the public, so could we just hold 10:03:21:01
this until we -- or should we press on and do it. 10:03:25:07
Then I move to waive the rules. 10:03:30:18
>> The second item I wanted to point out was the second 10:03:33:16

foreclosure. 10:03:36:15
>>GWEN MILLER: All in favor to waive the rules? 10:03:37:00
[ MOTION CARRIED ] 10:03:40:12
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Let's try to be real focused. 10:03:41:09
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Mr. Martin, so far we collected $1.6 million of 10:03:44:03
fines and liens and everything else. 10:03:49:06
>> $146,000. 10:03:51:28
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Not if you add the three pages that you gave me. 10:03:55:03
The 402,000, the 418 and the 820,000. 10:04:02:25
Is that the total collections report is $820,000? 10:04:10:21
>> That is total collections for other years. 10:04:15:28
First of all, let me ask you this, do you want to limit your 10:04:21:04
inquiry to code enforcement board fines or total collections 10:04:24:06
which include mowing and demolition? 10:04:28:03
>>MARY ALVAREZ: I want to include all the fines that have been 10:04:30:15
collected. 10:04:33:15
>> Okay. 10:04:34:10
Let me show you the chart. 10:04:37:03
Again, fiscal year 2005, there were $820,900 were collected in 10:04:40:10
total, mowing, demolition and code enforcement board fines. 10:04:47:09
And then in this past quarter, $289,776. 10:04:51:12
And again, that includes mowing, demolition and fines. 10:04:57:03
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Okay. 10:05:02:09
Well, what I'm getting at, your CEB fines were almost $403,000. 10:05:03:01
Demolition and mowing 418,000. 10:05:14:00

>> What numbers are you referring to? 10:05:19:27
>>MARY ALVAREZ: The ones that you have just given us. 10:05:21:22
>> She's talking about all three. 10:05:27:01
>> Let me run through them again. 10:05:28:12
>> You're just talking about the total. 10:05:31:01
Your math is correct. 10:05:32:24
>>MARY ALVAREZ: About 1.6 million in fines. 10:05:33:18
>> Yes, if talking about 418, 820 and the other, that adds up. 10:05:36:18
>> That would over a period of three years. 10:05:40:21
>>MARY ALVAREZ: A period of three years? 10:05:43:09
>> Two years one quarter. 10:05:45:15
>>MARY ALVAREZ: So the total collections for all the time was 10:05:46:18
$820,000? 10:05:49:04
>> That was for fiscal year 2005. 10:05:51:06
>> Does that go into the general fund? 10:05:55:25
>> All of these funds go into the general fund. 10:05:57:21
>>MARY ALVAREZ: All right. 10:06:03:16
That's one of the questions. 10:06:04:06
Is there any possible way of helping the code enforcement 10:06:05:21
department because we have so much money in these funds to add 10:06:16:00
some more employees? 10:06:21:28
>> Not under current allocations of funds. 10:06:25:18
These funds all go back to the general fund once they budget for 10:06:30:03
next year, they could budget for more people. 10:06:33:25
But none of these funds go to any specific account. 10:06:36:27

They go back in the general fund. 10:06:39:21
>>ROSE FERLITA: Mr. Smith, did you want to add to that 10:06:52:18
unacceptable answer or no? 10:06:55:01
>> I was just going to indicate, that is part of the budget 10:06:56:24
process. 10:06:59:06
It's obviously something that can be reviewed and revisited. 10:06:59:19
Supplemental budget requests could come back to this Council for 10:07:03:03
reallocation. 10:07:07:00
>>ROSE FERLITA: I didn't mean to interrupt you. 10:07:07:18
I believe that discussion and request for reallocation was 10:07:09:12
brought up several times. 10:07:12:01
I think the last time may be at the end of budget discussions. 10:07:13:03
We figure if Mr. Lane's department was doing what he could do 10:07:15:25
with the amount of staff he had and the revenue he collected, 10:07:19:09
what better place would we have to put that in there instead of 10:07:22:24
it getting lost in the deep hole of the general fund. 10:07:25:21
And that particular department -- I'm not preaching to you -- 10:07:29:15
but that particular department got zero increase in staff. 10:07:33:03
So it seems to me, as Ms. Alvarez has totalled the amount of 10:07:36:27
funds that were collected directly because of their efforts, why 10:07:41:15
should not some of that at least go to alleviate some of 10:07:45:22
Mr. Lane's staff problems and equipment problems? 10:07:48:10
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Hear hear. 10:07:51:21
>>ROSE FERLITA: You made the mistake of standing up there. 10:07:54:27
>> I was only addressing the process, the policy issues for you 10:07:59:06

guys. 10:08:02:07
The only other thing I would say to wrap this up, Mr. Darrell 10:08:02:16
Smith is here to address the issues on Hanson. 10:08:05:13
And I was going to answer any additional questions enough 10:08:08:18
foreclosure. 10:08:11:24
But we have that process working very well now. 10:08:12:21
We coordinated the three departments, which is real estate to 10:08:15:01
make sure we have a piece of property we really want to take and 10:08:17:24
foreclose on it. 10:08:21:15
Code enforcement to identify primarily the people who should be 10:08:23:10
a target of foreclosure rather than a little widow lady who 10:08:25:21
couldn't mow her yard. 10:08:30:04
And finally legal in terms of getting the proper process, 10:08:31:04
service, title work, et cetera. 10:08:33:24
We have two going on now, 48 different properties we're reviewed 10:08:35:18
to make sure they are not contaminated, they are worthwhile and 10:08:38:15
it is, in fact, those types of people. 10:08:41:10
So that's moving along very well. 10:08:43:15
I think Darrell Smith is here to explain to you the issues on 10:08:45:07
Hanson. 10:08:47:25
>>MARY ALVAREZ: I was hoping Mr. Lane would talk to us about the 10:08:48:10
report he gave us yesterday as far as the divergent fund. 10:08:53:10
I think these are things that the public should hear about the 10:08:56:22
divergent division. 10:09:03:03
>> Curtis Lane, code enforcement. 10:09:06:07

For the calendar year, November 1st through January 1st 10:09:09:15
through November 28th, the code enforcement department has a 10:09:14:04
total of 31,450 new cases. 10:09:17:15
These are new cases, not cases that were left over from the 10:09:21:12
previous year. 10:09:25:00
These are brand-new cases. 10:09:26:13
But what is more revealing to us and pleasing to us is that out 10:09:28:09
of the 31-plus-thousand cases, 25,475 of those cases have been 10:09:33:15
complied. 10:09:41:00
That's fantastic. 10:09:43:03
It really is unprecedented. 10:09:44:16
The code enforcement department this year will have 10:09:46:15
approximately 33 to 34 thousand cases, never ever in the history 10:09:49:24
of this city has code enforcement had that many cases. 10:09:54:21
And that speaks well for the administration giving us some of 10:10:00:06
the things that we need to do our job, i.e., laptop computers. 10:10:03:25
We had more personnel back in 2003. 10:10:09:19
We have the best equipment that you can think of. 10:10:13:18
We have other departments from around the state coming to Tampa 10:10:15:15
to look at what we are doing in code enforcement and 10:10:18:21
benchmarking off of some of the things we are doing. 10:10:22:21
Also, what is revealing is that we have 88,541 inspections that 10:10:25:18
we have done this year. 10:10:33:00
We have another 68,612 violations that we've cited this year as 10:10:34:28
well. 10:10:41:21

So as you can see from that, code enforcement is really on the 10:10:43:09
cutting edge of being the best that it can be anywhere. 10:10:46:16
Also, what we like to boast about is our diversion unit. 10:10:51:24
>>MARY ALVAREZ: I want you to talk about that. 10:10:55:19
>> That diversion unit is for those individuals that because of 10:10:57:06
hard times, fixed income elderly, they want to comply but they 10:10:59:25
cannot because they don't have the funds or the wherewithal to 10:11:03:22
do that. 10:11:07:04
So as a consequence, we looked at that very seriously, got with 10:11:07:22
the Mayor and suggested that we have a divergent program. 10:11:11:10
We can divert those individuals that cannot comply but want to, 10:11:16:04
to that division. 10:11:20:15
And we have nonprofits, organizations that voluntarily come in 10:11:21:12
and cut yards. 10:11:26:15
They do structural work for houses. 10:11:29:24
They paint houses and those kinds of things. 10:11:32:07
And that's unprecedented for any code enforcement department to 10:11:34:18
do or a city to do, per se. 10:11:37:07
So those are just some of the highlights that we have in code 10:11:40:25
enforcement that we are very proud of, but mostly we're proud of 10:11:43:24
the equipment that we receive from the administration to do our 10:11:47:21
job better. 10:11:51:12
>>MARY ALVAREZ: How many employees do you have? 10:11:55:21
>> We have 34 inspectors, but we have a total of 58 employees. 10:11:57:12
And that's customer service, administrative personnel and 10:12:02:28

information technology person. 10:12:06:24
>>MARY ALVAREZ: How many inspectors? 10:12:08:07
>> We have 34. 10:12:10:18
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Just 34. 10:12:11:22
And then the rest are administrative and so on. 10:12:12:24
>> Yes. 10:12:14:24
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Can you talk to us about the advisory board. 10:12:16:01
I think that was a fantastic -- 10:12:19:03
>> Absolutely. 10:12:21:07
We have an advisory board. 10:12:21:21
And what we've done, we did not select these individuals. 10:12:23:00
We asked T.H.A.N., the umbrella group, to select individuals for 10:12:26:06
the advisory committee. 10:12:30:09
As you know, the city is divided up into three inspection areas; 10:12:31:18
areas one, two, and three. 10:12:36:28
Each area T.H.A.N. selected four citizens to represent that 10:12:39:00
particular area. 10:12:42:01
And what happens is that those individuals meet with me once a 10:12:43:06
month, you know, to go over things that are occurring in their 10:12:47:06
area. 10:12:52:03
And what we charge them to do, once they've come into the 10:12:52:15
department and learned the whole code enforcement process, one 10:12:57:15
of the prerequisites for being that advisory person is to come 10:13:01:06
into code enforcement, sit with the customer service desk for an 10:13:05:04
hour, go downstairs to the condemnation desk for an hour. 10:13:10:00

Look at the code board hearing desk for an hour. 10:13:15:06
Learn the intricacies of code enforcement. 10:13:18:13
Then at the end, go out and ride in the field with a code 10:13:20:18
inspector to see what that is all about. 10:13:26:04
Inspectional process, and how we do business. 10:13:28:21
Once that has been accomplished, then we charge those members of 10:13:31:18
the voyeurs committee to go out in their neighborhoods, meet 10:13:35:00
with those neighborhood groups, enlighten them as to the code 10:13:38:07
enforcement process. 10:13:42:00
I found out when I took over in 2003, the biggest problem we had 10:13:42:25
was educating our constituents as to what constitutes violations 10:13:46:21
and what does not constitute a violation. 10:13:50:28
So once we've done that and accomplished that, I think that will 10:13:52:21
help us a lot in our compliance rate. 10:13:55:21
And as you know, we are proactive and systematic. 10:13:58:18
We go street by street, block by block, and we will continue to 10:14:03:21
be proactive and systematic. 10:14:06:24
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Thank you so much. 10:14:09:10
That's what I wanted to hear. 10:14:10:18
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to make a request to the 10:14:13:13
Chairman that we hold off our conversation about the Hanson 10:14:15:12
system until after we hear from Mr. Miller who I know needs to 10:14:18:04
get back to Hartline, needs to make a brief presentation. 10:14:22:01
Our Chairman promised the preservation community that the 10:00 10:14:25:09
public hearing would be held close to 10:00. 10:14:28:03

Can we do that Madam Chairman, please. 10:14:30:21
First hear -- I'm sorry, Mr. Lane, but these people waited until 10:14:33:03
2:00 the other day for a 10:00. 10:14:36:24
>> I have one more goody for you. 10:14:41:15
I have a CD that I'm going to give each one of you to look at on 10:14:43:07
your vacation, holiday vacation. 10:14:46:28
It's called "the code enforcement process." 10:14:49:09
It gives you a bird's eye view of code enforcement, what we were 10:14:51:16
all about, some of the same questions you are asking and the 10:14:55:00
questions your constituents may be asking, you will see that on 10:14:57:27
the CD. 10:15:00:21
So happy holidays. 10:15:01:18
[ LAUGHTER ] 10:15:03:22
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Mr. Smith, you don't have to answer, we had this 10:15:05:15
conversation. 10:15:08:09
We'll excuse you today, okay? 10:15:08:24
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you very much. 10:15:12:06
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: There's music on the CD? 10:15:17:15
No music? 10:15:19:24
>>GWEN MILLER: Okay. 10:15:21:07
We're going to go to Mr. Ray Miller from Hartline. 10:15:21:27
Will you come up, please? 10:15:24:21
This is item number 8. 10:15:29:12
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We know you'll be brief. 10:15:31:03
>> I certainly will. 10:15:33:04

Members of Council, Madam Chair, it's a pleasure to be here to 10:15:33:28
talk to you about bus shelters this morning. 10:15:37:01
I'm Ray Miller, the Executive Director of Hart. 10:15:39:09
I do have some handouts. 10:15:42:27
I assume that is okay. 10:15:44:24
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: For our viewers, tell us what Hart is. 10:15:52:13
>> Hart is the Hillsborough area regional transit authority. 10:15:55:06
It's sometimes known as Hartline, sometimes known as Hart. 10:15:59:06
But the official is the Hillsborough area regional transit 10:16:03:04
authority. 10:16:05:24
So first, I would like to talk to you about kind of a system 10:16:08:07
approach to shelters and then talk specifically about West Tampa 10:16:12:03
and 22nd Street and actually I'll ask Les Weakland to help me 10:16:16:24
out with 22nd Street. 10:16:22:04
But we have about 250 shelters in our system. 10:16:24:12
We have over 4,000 bus stops in our system which serves 10:16:27:18
Hillsborough County with about 50 routes. 10:16:32:27
Specifically in the West Tampa area, which I'll talk about 10:16:37:15
first -- yes, in the West Tampa area, we currently have 10 10:16:40:19
existing shelters, half of which are on Kennedy Avenue, and they 10:17:01:21
are indicated by the yellow diamonds which you can see on your 10:17:07:24
handout as well as on the ELMO. 10:17:11:03
The area that we're talking about in West Tampa is on the 10:17:14:06
northern part is boarded -- bordered by Martin Luther King 10:17:18:01
boulevard. 10:17:22:10

To the West is Himes Avenue. 10:17:22:25
To the South, Kennedy Boulevard and then the river to the East. 10:17:24:18
And this boundary is actually defined by the work that the 10:17:27:18
Planning Commission is currently doing in this area. 10:17:30:25
But we do have ten existing shelters. 10:17:34:12
We have nine proposed sites for the next fiscal year, actually 10:17:37:18
for installation, some of which are in design and some are 10:17:42:03
moving beyond that and getting ready for construction. 10:17:46:09
But, you know, we recognize that there is a significant need for 10:17:49:22
more shelters in our system. 10:17:54:09
It's a pretty harsh environment out there. 10:17:55:24
And when we look at our service, it's more than, you know, just 10:17:58:07
the bus stop and people getting on and off the bus. 10:18:02:01
It's how do you get to the bus stop. 10:18:04:27
It's what amenities are at the bus stop which makes our service 10:18:07:06
more attractive. 10:18:11:16
But I did want to share this information with you about West 10:18:13:09
Tampa. 10:18:19:09
When we look at locating bus shelters, we have developed over 10:18:20:06
the past several months, we've actually refined this process 10:18:24:28
significantly, but there's a number of criteria that we look at. 10:18:28:25
We're currently evaluating close to 80 different sites. 10:18:34:01
And the first thing that we look at are the number of boardings. 10:18:37:27
And there are 80 different sites in our system that are 10:18:41:06
locations that board more than 20 passengers per day. 10:18:45:03

And that's the first cutoff that we look at. 10:18:48:15
But that's not the only criteria that we use when we're 10:18:52:15
prioritizing shelter installations. 10:18:57:12
We're looking at accessibility needs. 10:18:59:13
We're looking at land use needs. 10:19:01:12
In other words, are there adjacent buildings and structures that 10:19:03:13
need to be served beyond just the boarding criteria. 10:19:06:28
So that does come into play. 10:19:10:03
Transfer, are we interconnecting routes and are people 10:19:15:06
transferring from one route to another? 10:19:17:27
Certainly that's one of the criteria. 10:19:19:24
And then the amenity need, are there shelters adjacent to the 10:19:21:22
location that were focused on and what is the spacing of our 10:19:26:15
shelters? 10:19:30:06
So that's a very brief overview of the West Tampa area, and I 10:19:31:06
guess the best thing to do would be for me to entertain 10:19:35:12
questions about this specific area and then if we want to talk 10:19:40:06
about 22nd Street and the Belmont Heights estates, I'll bring 10:19:43:03
Les Weakland up if that's okay with you. 10:19:48:09
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Just one question. 10:19:51:18
On the West Tampa area, it seems to me like you've only got 10:19:53:15
one -- you have no routes on MacDill Avenue? 10:19:57:10
>> On, let's see, we do have routes on MacDill Avenue, but they 10:20:02:22
were -- they run South of Kennedy. 10:20:07:06
So in this particular area between Kennedy and Martin Luther 10:20:10:06

King, that is correct. 10:20:13:22
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Is there any possible way you can look into 10:20:18:24
putting something in there? 10:20:21:10
You have a school there, too, McFarland School Park there. 10:20:22:16
And there's -- West Tampa, well, that's on -- 10:20:26:15
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: St. Joe's. 10:20:31:06
>>MARY ALVAREZ: St. Joseph is -- anyway, MacDill needs a bus 10:20:32:15
route in there it seems to me. 10:20:37:21
Of course, it's like we talked yesterday, Mr. Miller, it's just 10:20:39:15
that we need to get information out to the people that are going 10:20:42:18
to use these buses. 10:20:46:21
Especially in the West Tampa area. 10:20:50:12
There are a lot of people in there elderly. 10:20:53:28
They have no other way of transportation other than buses. 10:20:56:06
So we're trying -- if we're trying to enhance the bus system, I 10:20:59:00
think this is a way of helping out is by making the people that 10:21:04:01
are going to use it, use it. 10:21:07:21
So if there's any possible way of doing something else in there. 10:21:11:06
I don't know what is. 10:21:15:22
I was hoping you would come up with some solutions for us. 10:21:17:12
>> Well, a couple of things. 10:21:19:24
In terms of our service expansion and modification, we're going 10:21:21:03
through a comprehensive outreach process right now updating our 10:21:24:06
ten-year vision plan to 2016. 10:21:28:27
So, you know, and we'll be making improvements over that period 10:21:32:09

of time. 10:21:37:12
But certainly your comments are well taken about the service on 10:21:38:00
MacDill as well as if people don't know about the service, 10:21:40:21
how can we expect them to use it. 10:21:44:21
And that's not just an issue for West Tampa. 10:21:47:06
It's a marketing issue throughout. 10:21:49:27
>>MARY ALVAREZ: I know. 10:21:52:00
But the reason this came up is because there was an editorial 10:21:52:25
and there was a question of why a shelter was removed on 10:21:56:00
MacDill and cypress, I believe it was. 10:21:59:12
That's a pretty big route there, too, you know, it would be. 10:22:02:07
So I don't see -- cypress has one in there. 10:22:05:19
Can you tell us why the MacDill shelter was taken off? 10:22:10:22
>> Yeah, the shelter was removed because the route was changed. 10:22:14:16
So there was no longer service to that particular location. 10:22:17:28
The reason for the route change, you know, it was done well over 10:22:22:19
a year ago. 10:22:26:16
And I'm not prepared to answer that question. 10:22:28:06
But the reason for the shelter relocation was because the 10:22:31:19
service was changed and we moved the shelter to a stop that was 10:22:34:24
being served by a bus route. 10:22:38:00
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Well, could you look into maybe re-establishing 10:22:40:07
that route in there. 10:22:42:18
>> Sure, we will. 10:22:43:22
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Thank you. 10:22:45:03

You know there's a plan going on in West Tampa, I would just 10:22:48:06
love for you to discuss with Jim Hosler what the content of that 10:22:51:03
is in terms of land use and then come back to us after your 10:22:54:25
reorganization and update us on how accessibility has improved. 10:22:57:18
>> Certainly. 10:23:01:15
We are working closely with him and will continue to do so. 10:23:05:28
>>KEVIN WHITE: Looking at some of your local rate frequencies, 10:23:20:06
has there ever been a survey done to determine the route 10:23:23:03
frequencies? 10:23:26:27
You have three that are every 30 minutes and the rest appear to 10:23:27:21
be 45 and 60-minute increments. 10:23:30:24
And I think that may be one of the reasons that I want to say 10:23:34:09
ridership is down, but, of course, you can't add more buses 10:23:38:06
until the ridership goes up. 10:23:42:00
But part of I guess the survey would be to have the people on 10:23:43:27
these particular routes that you might be able to pick up in a 10:23:47:15
more frequent type atmosphere. 10:23:50:21
I was just in Chicago, buses, sometimes they were actually back 10:23:54:00
to back, and if you missed those two, there's another one coming 10:23:57:09
in 15 minutes. 10:24:01:06
And I know we're not a Chicago or New York yet, I realize that. 10:24:02:09
I'm trying to use that as an analogy, but it seems like 10:24:06:28
ridership may be able to be increased if the frequency of trips 10:24:10:13
are increased. 10:24:17:06
And maybe you can shed some light on that for me. 10:24:18:06

Do you know anything about that? 10:24:23:15
>> Yes, our big constraint, obviously, is our operating funding. 10:24:25:03
We're constrained on the capital side, too, our constraint and 10:24:31:06
what dictates the level of service that we can put out there are 10:24:34:12
the resources that are available to operate with. 10:24:37:01
In terms of frequency, you are absolutely right. 10:24:41:07
You know, our goal would be at a minimum to have every route in 10:24:43:13
the system operating at 60 minutes, in the peak period every 30 10:24:47:09
minutes. 10:24:52:24
I mentioned that we are reaching out to the public and going 10:24:53:25
through an extensive needs assessment. 10:24:56:09
That's what we're hearing. 10:25:01:06
It's not just later service, more weekend service. 10:25:02:04
It's more frequent service too. 10:25:05:25
>>KEVIN WHITE: If I miss a bus and I see it a block away, I have 10:25:07:18
to wait an hour for another bus. 10:25:11:18
I have to look for an alternative method of transportation. 10:25:13:21
But if I knew one was coming every 15, possibly every 20 10:25:16:00
minutes, then that doesn't make the wait so cumbersome. 10:25:20:00
>> I couldn't agree with you more. 10:25:25:10
But, you know, it is a matter of resources. 10:25:27:12
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Was everybody else done? 10:25:33:09
>>ROSE FERLITA: I just want to make a general comment to you, 10:25:38:15
Mr. Miller. 10:25:41:18
I think you get the sense of what we're asking about, 10:25:42:18

Ms. Alvarez in particular about West Tampa, but just the issue 10:25:45:00
of schedule that Kevin is bringing up. 10:25:47:18
If there was a good thing, if there's such a thing as a good 10:25:50:21
thing when the gas prices were so high, it increased your 10:25:53:22
ridership. 10:25:56:16
Not that we want to hope for that again, but it's my 10:25:57:10
understanding that your grants will give you more equipment but 10:25:59:24
they won't give you more drivers to drive the buses. 10:26:02:15
So it's a catch-22, actually, that you inherited. 10:26:05:19
And I can certainly appreciate the position that you're in. 10:26:10:06
Obviously, if you were able -- you would like for your buses to 10:26:12:21
run every 15 minutes. 10:26:16:01
>> Absolutely. 10:26:17:15
>>ROSE FERLITA: The reality is, we just have to see. 10:26:18:00
As we continue to get into different developments that cause 10:26:20:12
more density in different areas, I think that this Council is 10:26:22:27
making an earnest effort to try and encourage people to look at 10:26:25:12
riding buses maybe before we weren't. 10:26:29:09
So hopefully those type of things and asking developers to get 10:26:31:25
involved in the process by having it as an enhancement to their 10:26:35:24
development, maybe will help. 10:26:38:21
It's going to be long and drawn out, but I think we are all 10:26:40:04
aware of the fact that we need to start retraining ourselves 10:26:43:12
about the necessity to ride buses. 10:26:46:12
And I always use this as a closing comment. 10:26:48:19

I mean, it's almost like that's fine, let everybody else ride 10:26:50:27
the bus so I can use my car, I can't remember the last time I 10:26:54:15
rode a bus. 10:26:57:24
We need to start reconditioning our thought process. 10:26:58:18
Thank you for what you are doing. 10:27:01:00
I wouldn't look forward to having your job. 10:27:02:15
>> Well, your encouragement is working because our ridership is 10:27:04:21
at the highest point it's been since like 1992. 10:27:08:03
We've experienced 13% ridership increase just over the past 10:27:12:06
year. 10:27:16:00
I think gas prices obviously have had an impact on that. 10:27:16:12
But, you know, talking about shelters and developers and 10:27:21:04
resources, we do try and work with the development community to 10:27:25:09
encourage them to incorporate shelters into their design and 10:27:29:07
into their project and have had some success doing that. 10:27:34:24
And, you know, in other areas, they do work with the private 10:27:40:21
advertising sector where, you know, a third party would come in 10:27:47:19
and construct and maintain shelters. 10:27:53:00
Of course, then you are dealing with advertising issues. 10:27:56:18
But that does occur in other areas as well. 10:28:00:06
>>MARY ALVAREZ: A couple of more questions. 10:28:05:18
The number 7, I guess the number 7 bus where it shows is that 10:28:08:22
the bus that goes down Howard Avenue. 10:28:13:01
It makes that loop there? 10:28:17:00
See, it's on Armenia Avenue and -- is that the one that comes 10:28:20:00

into Howard? 10:28:24:03
>> Number 7 goes from downtown to citrus park. 10:28:25:15
Through the Tampa Bay center. 10:28:30:16
>>MARY ALVAREZ: But does it go on Howard? 10:28:32:24
>> I believe so, yes. 10:28:38:03
Actually, I have my schedule book here with me. 10:28:39:10
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Right. 10:28:42:00
Okay. 10:28:43:04
From what it looks like, that's probably why it takes 30 10:28:44:00
minutes, because it goes all the way to citrus park. 10:28:49:06
>> Well, the 30-minute frequency, that's not related to the trip 10:28:52:22
time. 10:28:58:21
It's related to -- if you are standing at a bus stop, how long 10:28:59:03
you have to wait for the next bus. 10:29:02:06
>>MARY ALVAREZ: I see. 10:29:05:16
But is Howard Avenue being serviced? 10:29:06:18
>> Howard Avenue is being serviced. 10:29:08:21
>>MARY ALVAREZ: All right. 10:29:10:01
The other question is, have you thought about corporate 10:29:11:06
sponsorships for the bus shelters? 10:29:14:16
You know, putting their names on it like we do for the 10:29:16:09
streetcars. 10:29:18:25
>> We have encouraged adopt a shelter program with the private 10:29:22:24
sector with limited success to my knowledge. 10:29:29:00
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Thank you. 10:29:31:22

>> It's my pleasure to be here. 10:29:33:21
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think there was some sort of sign issue 10:29:40:24
related to that, and I think we should continue to explore the 10:29:42:28
possibility of small signage on the shelters so we can build 10:29:46:12
more shelters. 10:29:51:18
And so I don't want to drop that. 10:29:54:00
And as Council's representative on Hartline, I just wanted to 10:29:56:09
say that Mr. Miller had been on for almost a year. 10:30:02:21
I think he's doing a great job. 10:30:07:13
You know, he had a lot to learn, a lot of people to meet and a 10:30:08:27
lot of sort of fires to put out. 10:30:13:06
But his temperament is excellent. 10:30:15:00
His knowledge of the industry is great. 10:30:19:18
And that I think this community should really get behind him and 10:30:21:10
make our transit system, you know, one that we can really, 10:30:24:18
really be proud of. 10:30:28:06
I think we are already proud of the people who work for it, but 10:30:29:27
they have a lot of obstacles. 10:30:32:18
And one of them is money. 10:30:33:28
And we're very underfunded as Kevin said to increase the 10:30:35:21
frequency of the service. 10:30:40:21
That takes money. 10:30:41:18
As Rose indicated, it's not just about buying buses, it's about 10:30:43:12
putting drivers in those buses and service people behind those 10:30:46:25
buses. 10:30:49:24

We got a long way to go, but I'm confident Mr. Miller is going 10:30:50:09
to lead us there. 10:30:53:12
Thank you. 10:30:54:09
>> Thank you very much. 10:30:55:06
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Mr. Miller, for coming. 10:30:56:19
>> Would you like to hear about 22nd Street? 10:30:59:28
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Not today. 10:31:02:09
>> Thank you very much. 10:31:04:25
>>GWEN MILLER: You can give me a written report on that. 10:31:05:01
That would be fine. 10:31:07:19
Now we're going to go to item number 41, which is a continued 10:31:11:13
public hearing. 10:31:15:01
>> Donna Wysong, Legal Department. 10:31:22:12
Here on a continued public hearing on the consideration to 10:31:24:03
initiate the local landmark designation process for the Tampa 10:31:26:00
cigar factors. 10:31:30:22
When you last met on this topic on November 17, you heard 10:31:32:00
comment from a representative of five of the property owners, 10:31:36:00
there are 15 all together and you heard a comment of a 10:31:38:24
representative of five of the property owners who indicated that 10:31:41:07
they did not wish to be designated. 10:31:43:18
At that point, it was decided to continue the public hearing and 10:31:45:15
to see if there were any other property owners within that 10:31:48:25
15-member group to see if they, in fact, did not wish to be 10:31:53:22
designated either. 10:32:00:00

And in that time, I have heard from an additional five property 10:32:01:06
owners indicating that they do not wish to be designated, and 10:32:05:06
those properties are the Tierra Del Lago, Salvadore Rodriguez 10:32:09:18
Factory, the Balbin Brothers Cigar Factory. 10:32:17:07
Bustillo and Diaz and the Morgan Cigar Factory. 10:32:22:07
Those additional five have indicated to me personally that they 10:32:27:01
do not wish to be designated. 10:32:29:18
So at this point, you have a public hearing to consider whether 10:32:31:15
to forward the initiation of the designation to the Planning 10:32:37:15
Commission. 10:32:40:03
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just a numerical clarification, how many did 10:32:42:12
we start out with? 10:32:45:12
>> We started out with 15. 10:32:48:06
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Now, out of the 15, 10 have -- you know, if 10:32:49:18
there's an opt-out, 10 are indicating to you that they want to 10:32:52:27
opt out leaving 5 to protect. 10:32:56:00
>> That's correct. 10:32:58:13
>>GWEN MILLER: Any other questions from Council members? 10:32:59:18
Ms. Saul-Sena. 10:33:01:12
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you. 10:33:01:24
At the first hearing on this, it was scheduled for 10:00, but it 10:33:03:06
wasn't actually heard until 2:00. 10:33:07:24
So while people who were disinterested in participating stuck 10:33:10:00
around, the preservation community left. 10:33:14:03
At the second hearing, I thought that the continuance that I had 10:33:16:12

requested to allow the city additional time to come up with 10:33:20:12
incentives for inclusion would be respected, but -- well, it 10:33:23:15
wasn't. 10:33:28:09
Anyway, none of the preservation community came because they 10:33:28:21
assumed it would be continued. 10:33:32:12
Today, I see a number of members of the preservation community 10:33:33:19
in the audience, and I would hope that we would open this for 10:33:36:18
their commentary because this is very significant. 10:33:40:00
So I would personally like to open this to hear from the public 10:33:43:18
since this is a continued public hearing. 10:33:47:03
>>GWEN MILLER: We have a question -- last meeting, those who 10:33:50:07
spoke -- if you are going to waive the rules to let them speak. 10:33:55:04
We have a motion and second to waive the rules. 10:34:00:13
All in favor, aye. 10:34:02:15
[ MOTION CARRIED ] 10:34:03:09
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to clarify something before 10:34:04:04
Ms. Wysong leaves, it's my understanding that if somebody does 10:34:06:18
not want to participate in this that they have to undergo -- 10:34:14:01
they have to initiate an economic development study to show that 10:34:16:06
this is not economically viable for them. 10:34:21:13
Is that true? 10:34:26:13
Is that in our existing ordinance? 10:34:27:06
Could you clarify that? 10:34:29:15
>> Yes, that's currently in our existing ordinance. 10:34:30:22
Section 27-231-D-1. 10:34:32:24

And it is the option to initiate by the land owner an economic 10:34:36:09
feasibility determination. 10:34:41:12
It's a process by which they can opt to initiate it and they 10:34:44:10
would then prove that it is economically infeasible for them to 10:34:48:18
do this designation. 10:34:56:07
And it's a fairly lengthy process. 10:34:57:09
The land owner -- none of the land owners in this particular 10:34:59:06
designation have opted for that in an economic feasibility 10:35:03:00
study? 10:35:07:19
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Isn't it a requisite? 10:35:08:25
>> No, it's not a requisite. 10:35:10:24
>>GWEN MILLER: Any other questions from Council members? 10:35:12:25
Anybody in the public like to speak on item 41, you may speak 10:35:15:22
now. 10:35:19:01
>> I'm going to go ahead and submit to you copies of three 10:35:23:10
letters that I received from the property owners. 10:35:25:24
>> Jeanie Hilton, historic Hyde Park Neighborhood Association. 10:35:37:00
Good morning. 10:35:40:15
You know, we come time after time to protect our neighborhoods, 10:35:41:21
and it's very important that we support our communities that we 10:35:45:24
support our neighborhoods. 10:35:48:22
I'm not sure how they do this in other cities in San Francisco 10:35:50:09
and Chicago and historic districts all over the country. 10:35:54:06
But I just wonder if in all those cities when people buy 10:35:57:18
historic properties, if they ask them if they want it to be 10:36:02:18

historic or not. 10:36:06:27
It seems to me it is historic, and if we don't protect our 10:36:07:18
historic fabric of the city, what will we have left? 10:36:11:03
So for me, it's a no-brainer that we protect our history, 10:36:16:09
protect our communities, support our neighborhoods. 10:36:20:12
These are all things important for a city that's going to 10:36:22:13
prosper and be happy and be a nice city to visit and live in. 10:36:25:06
So I hope that you'll protect your history, our history and 10:36:29:06
protect our communities. 10:36:32:09
And I just don't think anybody ought to be able to say, well, I 10:36:35:00
don't want to do that. 10:36:38:06
I just think that everybody ought to do that. 10:36:39:06
So that's my opinion. 10:36:41:28
Thank you very much. 10:36:43:00
>>GWEN MILLER: Stay they podium. 10:36:44:00
It's been brought to my attention you need to be sworn in. 10:36:45:19
Everybody who needs to speak, would you please raise your right 10:36:48:19
hand. 10:36:51:18
(Oath administered by the clerk). 10:36:53:15
>>GWEN MILLER: Next? 10:36:58:01
>> My name is Susan long. 10:37:03:28
I'm treasurer of the old Seminole Heights Neighborhood 10:37:05:24
Association. 10:37:07:15
I live at 921 East Broad Street. 10:37:08:00
I would like to read a letter that was put together by the board 10:37:10:16

members in regard to this. 10:37:14:07
It says, the old Seminole neighborhood heights association has 10:37:15:21
no opinion with respect to the landmark designation of the 10:37:19:21
proposed properties; however, we understand that several of the 10:37:22:01
property owners have asked to opt out of the designation. 10:37:25:04
We strongly oppose the inclusion of any form of opt-out 10:37:27:18
provision in the designation ordinance. 10:37:31:18
If included, such provision will provide a precedent for 10:37:34:00
unwilling participants in future proposed districts to opt out. 10:37:37:21
This will severely undermine one of the primary purposes of a 10:37:40:21
local designation to protect the historic fabric of the defined 10:37:44:13
district. 10:37:49:03
What good is imposing guidelines on one structure when the opted 10:37:49:12
out abutting structure is free from such review. 10:37:53:01
Such a district will ultimately end up as a patchwork of 10:37:56:13
conforming and nonconforming areas, historic in name only. 10:37:59:10
If Council feels it's necessary to allow some of the cigar 10:38:02:19
factors to opt out in -- factories to opt out in this particular 10:38:06:04
designation, we urge you to include language in the ordinance 10:38:10:01
that makes it clear that such a designation is limited to the 10:38:13:03
current ordinance and shall not be constructed to confer a right 10:38:15:24
or provide a precedent for participants in future proposed 10:38:18:24
historic districts to opt out. 10:38:22:27
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you. 10:38:27:04
Next. 10:38:27:22

>> Hello, Council. 10:38:32:25
My name is Michael villa. 10:38:33:24
I'm a lifelong resident of Tampa, Florida. 10:38:35:09
Thank you for your time this morning. 10:38:37:21
This particular issue is very dear to my heart. 10:38:40:15
My great, great grandfather was born in Tampa. 10:38:43:09
We're the sixth generation Tampaians. 10:38:46:18
He was born when it was still known as Fort Brooke. 10:38:50:06
My great grandfather had a boarding house in Ybor City and 10:38:52:16
actually housed cigar makers that came up from key West during 10:38:55:25
the hurricane that destroyed the cigar factories in key West and 10:39:00:13
then began to relocate here. 10:39:03:22
My father worked in the cigar factories as a young man. 10:39:05:18
I can understand the concern of property owners that don't want 10:39:09:24
to have their property designated as a landmark or historical 10:39:15:25
building because it requires them to do something that maybe 10:39:19:19
they already are considering doing and that's preserving the 10:39:22:00
building. 10:39:24:22
I'm certainly not saying that's not their intention. 10:39:25:06
But what this designation will do, it will ensure that whoever 10:39:27:28
they sell the property to and so on and so forth will adhere to 10:39:32:21
those same issues. 10:39:36:03
Their intentions are -- whatever they may be, we need to protect 10:39:38:21
those buildings forever. 10:39:43:13
Opting out, I think, is dangerous. 10:39:47:19

And the historic district that I live in, there's a beautiful 10:39:49:22
building on the corner of Deacle and Desoto. 10:39:53:19
Original a church building in 1926. 10:39:56:06
When the historic guidelines were put in place for our district, 10:39:58:22
the property owner of that building opted out. 10:40:03:03
It's not designated as historic. 10:40:05:22
Alluding to what the Seminole Heights residents said earlier, 10:40:09:09
wouldn't it be something if whoever knows what could land in the 10:40:12:12
middle of our neighborhood with that not being designated 10:40:15:22
historic. 10:40:18:13
I think if it's historic, it's historic. 10:40:18:25
I think that if it's not, it's not. 10:40:21:03
We've seen a lot of demolition in Ybor City. 10:40:23:04
A lot of demolition in Seminole Heights. 10:40:25:21
A lot of demolition in Hyde Park thanks to the work of a lot of 10:40:27:25
people in this community, we've managed to hang on and grab to 10:40:34:12
what was left and preserve it. 10:40:39:12
There is, I think, a handful of cigar factories left from the 10:40:42:27
original ones here that makes the city what it is. 10:40:49:15
There's a new magazine called "Cigar City Magazine." 10:40:52:00
Book written about cigar city Mafia. 10:40:56:25
We're known around the country as cigar city. 10:40:59:21
Can't have cigars without cigar factories. 10:41:02:03
Thank you. 10:41:06:04
>>GWEN MILLER: Next. 10:41:06:21

>> Good morning. 10:41:11:13
My name is Daniel SAMELION. 10:41:11:25
I've lived in Tampa, been a native here all my life. 10:41:16:18
Now, I'm here this morning to say that I'm very proud of being a 10:41:20:01
native of the Tampa area as well as I am proud of the growth 10:41:24:10
that I've seen during my lifetime here in Tampa. 10:41:29:00
My brother and I were both born in Ybor City. 10:41:33:06
We received our health care through the clinics. 10:41:37:10
We were raised in the West Tampa area. 10:41:43:24
My extended family lived in Palmetto Beach as well as Ybor City 10:41:47:06
and West Tampa. 10:41:51:24
I truly believe that an important part of our culture and our 10:41:53:28
history in Tampa as well as Ybor City has been our cigar 10:41:58:27
factories, as well as our social clubs. 10:42:04:21
I know we're not here to talk about our social clubs, but I 10:42:06:16
believe that's a very significant part of our culture. 10:42:10:28
As was just recently said, we've always been -- one of our 10:42:14:07
things we've been known for, our being the cigar capital of the 10:42:18:15
world. 10:42:22:27
And I got to tell you I'm very proud of my family heritage. 10:42:23:18
My family, we're also employed by the cigar factories. 10:42:29:07
My great grandfather, my grandfathers were cigar makers, came 10:42:33:21
here from Cuba via Key West and settled into Ybor City, West 10:42:38:21
Tampa area. 10:42:45:21
It saddens me when I drive through my old neighborhood and I see 10:42:50:24

some of the conditions of our historical buildings and I know 10:42:54:06
there's -- you know, I don't know all the ordinances, but I know 10:42:59:15
some of the things I've read. 10:43:02:21
There's only 25 factories left of the original 200. 10:43:04:04
My family and myself and friends of mine who were not able to be 10:43:09:21
here today would be very saddened to see these remaining 10:43:13:18
historical buildings leveled down, replaced by condos, 10:43:18:09
apartments, strip centers, whatever. 10:43:24:27
That would be very sad to our family. 10:43:28:00
So I'm here to ask you today at this meeting and any future 10:43:31:24
meeting to please preserve our historical factories, our history 10:43:36:15
and the culture of Tampa. 10:43:43:03
Thank you very much. 10:43:44:28
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you. 10:43:46:09
Next. 10:43:46:27
>> Hi. 10:43:52:27
Paula Mackly. 10:43:53:09
I'm going to read a statement from the national trust for 10:43:55:12
historic preservation. 10:43:57:21
The national trust views permitting private property owners to 10:43:59:07
consent to historic designation on the basis of an individual 10:44:02:22
preference not only undermines the integrity of the statutory 10:44:06:04
scheme for making historic designation decisions but also 10:44:09:09
fosters a perception that the ordinances not fairly or 10:44:13:15
rationally applied. 10:44:20:06

While the views of property owners along with those of the 10:44:21:18
general public should certainly be heard and considered as part 10:44:23:21
of the designation process, individual property owners should 10:44:25:28
not be allowed to opt out of historic preservation ordinances. 10:44:28:24
Much as they should not be able to decline to participate in 10:44:32:12
zoning of other types of land use regulations. 10:44:36:03
Designated to promote public good. 10:44:39:28
Owner consent, provisions undermine the principles of uniform 10:44:43:01
and rational applications of land use regulations. 10:44:46:25
As the U.S. Supreme Court recognized in Penn transportation 10:44:49:21
versus New York City, historic preservation ordinances protected 10:44:53:18
the interest of the community as a whole and not just the 10:44:57:24
interest of a few individuals. 10:45:00:19
If private individuals were permitted to comply only with zoning 10:45:03:00
and land use laws they favor the framework of local laws that 10:45:06:06
protect the character and value of a particular community would 10:45:10:04
be fatally compromised. 10:45:13:04
Nor is the owner consent provision necessary to prevent a 10:45:16:00
historic or landmark designation from unconditionally taking 10:45:20:06
private property without just compensation, the 10:45:23:12
constitutionality of local preservation ordinance regulating 10:45:26:15
historic properties has firmly been established by the Supreme 10:45:31:00
Court in the Penn central case and has been upheld in numerous 10:45:34:19
states and federal courts over the years. 10:45:38:04
In addition, there are significant questions about the legality 10:45:40:18

of owners consent requirements in connection with the exercise 10:45:45:12
of police power of authority by local jurisdictions. 10:45:48:27
For example, in the county of Fairfax, pleat industrial park 10:45:52:21
limited partnership and the Virginia Supreme Court -- in the 10:45:57:06
Virginia Supreme Court struck down a state law that required 10:46:01:00
county supervisors to obtain the consent of affected land owners 10:46:04:16
before enacting certain zoning changes. 10:46:08:13
In doing so, the Virginia Supreme Court adopted rationale set 10:46:11:12
forth by the U.S. Supreme Court in -- owner consent provisions 10:46:15:15
constitute an unlawful delegation of legislative authority to 10:46:22:00
private individuals. 10:46:27:09
Please follow our ordinances. 10:46:29:09
We have them there. 10:46:30:15
Thank you. 10:46:31:12
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you. 10:46:31:18
Next. 10:46:32:21
>> My name is Martha Sherman. 10:46:38:13
I'm an architect and I'm very interested in historic buildings 10:46:40:21
and historic preservation. 10:46:44:21
When I came to Tampa 18 years ago and adopted Tampa as my home, 10:46:46:19
one of the things that struck me was the special nature of 10:46:52:06
certain kinds of buildings in this community. 10:46:57:03
And the cigar factories were the most significant buildings that 10:47:00:18
helped define Tampa as its own special place. 10:47:07:25
When you come here, you're not just anywhere. 10:47:12:25

Tampa's culture of cigar making and the role that the cigar 10:47:16:19
factories have played in this community are really significant, 10:47:23:27
and I hope that you will act to keep those buildings. 10:47:28:04
Thank you. 10:47:32:15
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you. 10:47:33:04
Next? 10:47:33:27
>> Hi. 10:47:40:06
My name is Jo Ann Peck. 10:47:40:18
I'm a private preservation consultant in the City of Tampa and a 10:47:42:06
resident. 10:47:45:19
And I am here on my own behalf. 10:47:50:01
Coming here and hearing there were 200 cigar factories in Tampa 10:47:52:12
blows my mind. 10:47:56:12
Obviously I wasn't around back then. 10:47:57:16
You try to picture that in your mind and here we are with 25 10:47:59:09
cigar factories. 10:48:02:24
And they are incredibly impressive buildings. 10:48:03:21
You can't drive by one without it catching your eye looking 10:48:05:22
around the city. 10:48:09:28
And whenever you read a history of Tampa, you know, within about 10:48:10:21
the first or second page, you get to the cigar industry and how 10:48:14:01
incredibly important it was to the development of Tampa. 10:48:18:04
And the buildings that are left from that time period are the 10:48:21:21
things that make Tampa unique. 10:48:24:15
And because they are related to the history of the entire city, 10:48:27:01

there is a value of these buildings that's beyond just that of 10:48:30:09
the individual building owners. 10:48:33:21
There's a value to the entire community. 10:48:35:15
Everybody shares these buildings. 10:48:38:06
And this is not a new concept because we have a historic 10:48:41:09
preservation ordinance that recognizes the fact that there are 10:48:44:06
certain buildings in the city of Tampa that are more important 10:48:47:10
than just the individual owners. 10:48:51:01
They are important to the community as a whole, and we have 10:48:53:00
designated entire neighborhoods because of this saying that if 10:48:55:13
we were to lose this, Tampa wouldn't be the same. 10:48:58:00
Historic preservation ordinances are very common land use tools. 10:49:02:03
They are used in cities throughout the State of Florida. 10:49:06:00
They are used in cities throughout the entire country. 10:49:08:13
They are held up in court repeatedly, so there's nothing about 10:49:12:01
this that's far-reaching in order to do that. 10:49:16:10
But here we are today with the cigar factories which are among 10:49:21:03
the most significant structures in all of Tampa. 10:49:24:25
And yet here we're considering just disregarding this ordinance 10:49:27:06
that we have and not applying it to these particular buildings 10:49:30:18
because of some people that own them right now in time. 10:49:36:00
These buildings have been here long before these people owned 10:49:38:18
them. 10:49:41:18
These buildings will be here long after they are gone if we do 10:49:42:06
what we need to do in order to preserve them. 10:49:45:06

Part of the problem that we have is that -- what designation 10:49:48:01
means has gotten misconstrued. 10:49:52:10
When you designate a building, it does not require you to 10:49:54:27
restore the building. 10:49:57:09
It does not regulate the interior of the building. 10:49:58:06
You can do whatever you want on the inside of the building. 10:50:02:03
It wasn't regulate the use of the building. 10:50:05:00
It doesn't regulate that you even maintain the building. 10:50:07:00
Those are already included in the ordinances in place, code 10:50:10:18
enforcement and the like. 10:50:12:16
What it does do to designate a building is that it says that the 10:50:14:09
building is important to the residents of Tampa and it says we 10:50:17:18
are going to make it harder for you to demolish it. 10:50:23:03
It won't prevent demolition, for sure, but make it a harder 10:50:25:27
process, and it is going to make it so that when anybody chooses 10:50:29:27
to do alterations to the exterior of the building that they will 10:50:33:10
have to go through a certain regulatory process. 10:50:37:16
Again, only if somebody chooses to do the work. 10:50:40:25
Doing that is not what drives up the cost of rehabbing a 10:50:45:19
building. 10:50:48:18
Trying to maintain the exterior of the building in historic 10:50:49:04
state. 10:50:52:15
The things that drive up the costs are things like bringing it 10:50:53:00
up to meet code. 10:50:56:06
Modifying it for new uses. 10:50:57:12

Repairs due to deferred maintenance. 10:50:59:16
These are the things that drive up the costs of preservation. 10:51:01:15
And we have lots of incentives. 10:51:04:12
Everything from local low-interest loans -- (buzzer) does that 10:51:08:03
mean my time is up? 10:51:14:27
>>GWEN MILLER: Yes, it is. 10:51:16:04
>> I have a sheet for another minute. 10:51:17:12
>>GWEN MILLER: It's too late. 10:51:19:12
>> Okay. 10:51:23:15
Thank you. 10:51:23:27
>>GWEN MILLER: Next? 10:51:24:03
>> Hello. 10:51:25:07
My name is grace Kelly. 10:51:25:25
And I'm a citizen of Tampa. 10:51:27:13
I have three children that were born in Tampa. 10:51:30:03
And I have a concern. 10:51:33:00
I have grave concerns that City Council is rushing into allowing 10:51:34:27
cigar owners to opt out of historic preservation designation. 10:51:40:27
I understand that City Council has spent two years working with 10:51:45:18
the building association and neighborhoods on trees. 10:51:51:03
And that process continues. 10:51:55:15
After I was here earlier this morning and I saw that. 10:51:59:12
The cigar factories are a resource that once they are gone, they 10:52:04:18
are gone. 10:52:07:25
You can't even plant another one. 10:52:08:27

So I just feel like City Council should offer us the same 10:52:12:04
consideration and possibly educate the cigar factory owners on 10:52:18:12
what it really means to be designated because I don't believe 10:52:23:04
they understand what it really means. 10:52:25:25
Workshop it. 10:52:31:06
Whatever we need to do. 10:52:35:07
Because it's just going to be a shame if the cigar factories are 10:52:38:24
gone and we have nothing to show for it. 10:52:43:21
Thank you. 10:52:46:24
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you. 10:52:47:21
Next. 10:52:48:09
>> My name is LOUNDERS. 10:52:54:15
I come from Florida pioneers in Tampa. 10:52:59:25
I believe the city is as strong as its past. 10:53:01:27
The cigar industry provided jobs. 10:53:05:12
They provided income and pride to each community. 10:53:07:25
We don't want to live with just memories. 10:53:12:16
We want to see the structure so that we can absorb what was 10:53:15:00
there. 10:53:19:03
If we are the cigar capital of the world, we don't want to 10:53:21:15
advertise through a catalog or little branches. 10:53:26:09
We prefer seeing our structures. 10:53:30:21
And I ask that we can retain them as they are. 10:53:33:27
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you. 10:53:37:00
Next. 10:53:38:15

Jennifer Jones, would you raise your hand, please? 10:53:55:00
Okay. 10:53:57:16
>> My name is John Jones. 10:53:58:24
I live at 1704 Jetton Avenue. 10:53:59:27
I'm here today to speak in favor of the ordinance. 10:54:03:21
I'm not going to address what many of the others have addressed 10:54:08:06
very well. 10:54:11:12
I want to talk about two things. 10:54:12:15
We've heard the owners through their representative arguing 10:54:14:15
about their property rights. 10:54:21:06
And I think that that's a term that's thrown around a lot. 10:54:23:06
And unfortunately, most of us don't understand what those 10:54:26:01
property rights are. 10:54:28:15
Spent 30 years insuring those rights as a title agent, as an 10:54:29:28
employee of one of the three largest title insurance companies 10:54:36:06
in the United States. 10:54:38:24
I've held a real estate broker's license. 10:54:40:19
So from that point of view, I think that I can speak to what 10:54:44:22
those rights are. 10:54:48:00
Essentially, the funny thing about real estate is we don't own 10:54:49:01
real estate. 10:54:53:18
When you buy a piece of property, you're not owning the property 10:54:54:09
itself. 10:54:57:06
Your owning -- you're owning the rights to those properties. 10:54:57:27
Those include the right to use the property. 10:55:01:04

The right to enjoy the property. 10:55:03:00
The right to dispose of the property and the right to possess 10:55:05:16
the property. 10:55:10:06
Now, use is certainly covered under the zoning ordinance, so I 10:55:12:27
think that it's fair to say that we do restrict use through 10:55:17:03
zoning and through other matters. 10:55:21:13
There's nothing here that I believe addresses the enjoyment of 10:55:24:15
the property. 10:55:27:00
They are allowed to continue to possess it. 10:55:28:12
They can dispose of it in any way. 10:55:31:10
I'm not quite sure what rights we're interfering with that the 10:55:33:19
city doesn't have the right to impose in any event. 10:55:37:09
And I think along with property rights, there are 10:55:41:18
responsibilities of the owners. 10:55:46:09
There's a responsibility on the part of owners not to pollute 10:55:48:09
that property. 10:55:53:06
You can't pour toxic waste on your property. 10:55:53:22
You can't cut down grand trees. 10:55:56:00
The city recently changed the ordinance on trees. 10:55:58:15
Nobody came knocking on my door asking if I wanted to opt out, 10:56:01:27
because I have a grand tree in my backyard. 10:56:05:15
Another popular topic I think today is adult use zoning. 10:56:08:21
I don't think that anybody has gone to the adult use property 10:56:15:28
owners and asked them whether they are willing to opt out of the 10:56:20:19
zoning code that restricts their ability to place those anywhere 10:56:24:03

they want and operate them under any conditions that they want? 10:56:27:03
So there is a responsibility on the part of the property owners, 10:56:31:12
and that's for the greater good. 10:56:34:09
That's to do the things that the citizens of the city and the 10:56:35:27
state and the City Council believe that are beneficial. 10:56:43:04
And that's to protect the cultural resources. 10:56:46:24
We have a gorgeous city. 10:56:49:09
We have a great tree ordinance. 10:56:50:15
We've got regulations that protect our drinking water rights. 10:56:52:13
Those are all somewhat restricted uses that a property owner has 10:56:56:09
some responsibility for. 10:57:03:01
So this is just another one that I don't believe interferes with 10:57:04:15
the other rights that they have under the title to their 10:57:07:21
property. 10:57:10:21
Thank you. 10:57:11:03
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you. 10:57:12:13
Next. 10:57:13:06
>> Good morning. 10:57:16:25
My name is Franklin Sebastian. 10:57:17:07
We own the Bustillo Brothers and Diaz Cigar Factory at 2111 10:57:20:15
North Albany Avenue. 10:57:28:16
We asked to be removed from the roster on this topic. 10:57:29:21
My rationale runs a little differently. 10:57:34:21
Many of you may know that my wife and I have a business that's 10:57:39:00
active in historic restoration. 10:57:42:13

We've done viable and numerous projects in Hyde Park for years 10:57:44:27
and years here. 10:57:49:15
My concern is the inequity between what is being imposed upon 10:57:50:15
these particular property owners and the community at large. 10:57:55:28
I would posit to you that not enough is being done by the city 10:58:01:01
and the Council. 10:58:06:27
And let me give an example. 10:58:08:27
Last night, one of my tenant's automobiles was broken into in 10:58:10:15
the parking lot. 10:58:15:15
It creates a lot of stress. 10:58:16:22
It's very difficult. 10:58:18:06
We are constantly challenged with how to best serve the 10:58:19:09
community and ourselves with our building. 10:58:24:10
And I'm an advocate for historic preservation. 10:58:26:24
But I also am confronted with a lot of economic realities. 10:58:31:21
When I go through our building right now, which is very close to 10:58:37:06
what it was in the original condition, the second floor gallery 10:58:40:15
is open and expansive, we are constantly involved with trying to 10:58:44:15
preserve our historic wood sash windows. 10:58:48:15
But the children in the community are always throwing rocks at 10:58:51:10
the windows and breaking them. 10:58:54:09
So here's the thing, we are a community and we need to look at 10:58:56:22
this holistically. 10:59:01:24
West Tampa, where our building is located, has a lot of very 10:59:03:16
serious issues. 10:59:07:24

And I think it's unfair to single out just specific property 10:59:08:15
owners when we're not looking at the community at large. 10:59:13:09
Those little Casitas represent every -- are every bit as 10:59:15:25
important to us as a community at-large for historic 10:59:21:12
significance for the traditions in history of the immigrant 10:59:24:12
families that came to Tampa a hundred years ago and made a life 10:59:26:19
for themselves, those are very significant, yet I see approval 10:59:30:24
given for wanton demolition behind the Post Office two years 10:59:34:03
ago. 10:59:39:06
We razed half the block. 10:59:39:15
Two houses on Chestnut Street burned by fire. 10:59:43:12
People are stuccoing, slathering plaster over the beautiful 10:59:47:03
little Casitas. 10:59:50:15
If this ordinance was adopted community-wide, like it is in Hyde 10:59:52:19
Park, Seminole Heights, if we had historic preservation where 10:59:56:19
we're all on the same page and we're all striving to achieve the 11:00:01:07
same goals, I would be highly supportive of it, and I would 11:00:05:07
challenge you City Council, to do more than just look at select 11:00:08:19
properties in our community. 11:00:12:01
And let's look at our neighborhoods holistically and determine 11:00:13:27
what we can do to strengthen these communities and all of our 11:00:18:00
architectural and community heritage. 11:00:21:18
Not just singular property owners. 11:00:23:24
Thank you very much. 11:00:26:18
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Mr. Sebastian, I hear you. 11:00:30:25

And I'm torn because I know you are for historic preservation. 11:00:33:15
You have made designs that reflect the Casitas that we're using 11:00:40:24
for infill in West Tampa. 11:00:50:24
And I'm torn because I feel like we're asking these property 11:00:52:21
owners that are not in the historic designated place to put 11:00:59:06
burdens on themselves because of the type of guidelines that 11:01:03:12
we're asking them to do. 11:01:10:28
If it was -- if West Tampa was historically designated like 11:01:12:24
we're talking about, a local district, then you would come under 11:01:16:27
it. 11:01:20:12
And then you would have to do this. 11:01:20:24
Yeah, it is equitable. 11:01:26:09
But for us to -- for us to talk about letting these -- the cigar 11:01:30:10
factory owners not to opt out is really a burden that's put on 11:01:41:01
us. 11:01:45:22
Do you understand what I'm saying. 11:01:48:03
The preservationists are all coming to us, and they are all 11:01:51:15
telling us this. 11:01:54:21
But are the preservationists going to put their money in their 11:01:55:15
mouth when it comes to fixing these historic preservation, these 11:01:58:18
factories? 11:02:03:18
I don't think so. 11:02:04:21
The preservationists talk a good game, and I'm all for 11:02:07:18
preservation. 11:02:10:27
I'm all for it. 11:02:11:24

And everybody knows. 11:02:12:28
But when it comes to asking one cigar factory that's in one area 11:02:14:18
that's not designated, that really puts a really big burden on 11:02:21:21
me. 11:02:26:18
I'm sorry. 11:02:26:24
I just had to say that. 11:02:28:03
But -- and I understand your feelings. 11:02:29:16
And I wish everybody would also say that. 11:02:32:04
Because if they were to own cigar factories that are huge 11:02:35:18
monsters and we've seen -- there are two areas, two places in 11:02:39:03
West Tampa right now. 11:02:43:24
One on Howard -- two on Howard Avenue that have gone through 11:02:46:03
Hades -- I don't want to say the other word -- because what they 11:02:52:00
have to do with the designation. 11:02:57:00
They have to go through the A.R.C. 11:03:02:21
They have to go through the barrio. 11:03:04:16
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No, they don't. 11:03:06:18
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Yes, they do. 11:03:08:12
The golden nugget, yes, they did. 11:03:10:03
Baker's building. 11:03:15:06
I'm sorry that she's not here. 11:03:16:10
I'm sure she would have said a few words about that. 11:03:17:22
Thank you for coming and letting -- letting us hear your side of 11:03:22:04
it. 11:03:27:01
You're right, it should be fairly inequitable. 11:03:27:15

Not just one. 11:03:31:21
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Sebastian, thanks for coming. 11:03:36:22
When we started this discussion -- well, a couple of months ago 11:03:39:13
when the ordinance first came to Council, one of the things that 11:03:44:04
I suggested was sort of a middle ground for folks like yourself. 11:03:49:01
Were you in the first batch of opt-outs or second batch of 11:03:54:16
opt-outs? 11:03:57:25
>> I just responded to a letter sent by the City Attorney. 11:03:58:28
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay. 11:04:02:12
You are in the second batch of opt-outs. 11:04:02:24
I suggested to Council and to the potential opt-outees that 11:04:05:15
perhaps there was sort of a temporary middle ground which was 11:04:12:22
give the city some legal assurance, assurance or assurances that 11:04:17:01
your buildings will not be demolished. 11:04:23:09
And then perhaps we could figure out and carve out a way to let 11:04:26:21
the folks opt out. 11:04:33:06
Because I think that that's really one of the biggest 11:04:35:06
considerations that everybody -- or concerns that everybody has 11:04:37:25
is that we will continue to lose these buildings one at a time. 11:04:41:03
We've gone from 200 down to 25 somehow, and I don't know 11:04:46:01
historically how that happened one by one, but that's what 11:04:49:28
happens. 11:04:52:27
It's one by one. 11:04:53:09
A better use comes along for that land. 11:04:55:10
And right now, West Tampa is becoming a hotter real estate 11:04:58:15

market as you are very aware of. 11:05:02:09
And at some point, what happens when somebody waves $20 million 11:05:04:15
in front of you and says I want to -- I'm going to take that and 11:05:09:09
tear it down. 11:05:13:24
That would be a great problem for you and your wife as to what 11:05:14:28
you would do. 11:05:20:01
Because in your heart, you don't want to see it torn down, but 11:05:20:21
at the end of the day, you know -- 11:05:24:15
>> Well, Mr. Dingfelder, if I might have a moment. 11:05:26:12
Let me elaborate on a subject that's akin to that. 11:05:28:27
First of all, to own one of these buildings requires a really 11:05:32:00
strong conviction and constitution. 11:05:35:21
They are enormous buildings that are very difficult to maintain. 11:05:37:28
And you must love them. 11:05:41:09
You must love our heritage to even possess one of them. 11:05:42:18
That aside, as an architect and developer, working with 11:05:46:09
architects and developers, I recognize that there are some 11:05:50:22
economic realities. 11:05:53:12
When we pencil out the pro formas on what we could do with our 11:05:54:15
property and our building, right now at this point in time, 11:05:58:24
given the difficulties and pathologies that exist in West Tampa, 11:06:02:13
the type of renovation or redevelopment of our building takes us 11:06:07:01
in one direction, and I would posit to you, to the Council, that 11:06:11:10
if we were to look at our community holistically and look at 11:06:16:15
what we can -- the commercial buildings on Howard, the Casitas 11:06:22:27

on the streets and neighborhoods and work to strengthen West 11:06:27:00
Tampa as a whole, that gives us as cigar factory owners more 11:06:29:13
options as far as the viability of our buildings. 11:06:33:16
Here is the point. 11:06:37:10
We could chop up our building into residential flats or 11:06:38:15
apartments like was done with the sanctuary in Tampa Heights or 11:06:42:27
the wonder bread factory in Hyde Park. 11:06:46:18
That economical model seems to work or could work given economic 11:06:50:06
conditions today. 11:06:55:09
But I don't want to do that with our building because I love the 11:06:56:00
historic character, including the interior of the open 11:06:59:21
galleries, the treed timbers, bead board ceiling, all those 11:07:03:18
interior aspects that are also a part of the importance of that 11:07:07:22
building. 11:07:10:12
I would prefer to find continuants that are more on a commercial 11:07:11:00
level where our gallery could stay open and we could have the 11:07:15:10
minimal impact on the building. 11:07:18:19
That cannot happen in West Tampa right now given economic 11:07:20:12
conditions. 11:07:23:18
You all are permitting commercial buildings up and down Kennedy 11:07:23:27
Boulevard, Howard, Armenia, buildings are putting cement block 11:07:27:10
commercial flats in. 11:07:31:28
It's a dime a dozen. 11:07:33:06
Tenants will lease that stuff much more than they will lease our 11:07:35:03
difficult building. 11:07:38:27

So let's look at this holistically, futuristically and what can 11:07:39:19
we do to preserve not just the building facade or exterior but 11:07:44:07
the integrity and character of the buildings. 11:07:48:22
Let's look at it that way, please. 11:07:50:15
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: That leads to the next question. 11:07:52:13
Where are we on the issue? 11:07:54:12
Dennis, have we done a survey of West Tampa? 11:07:56:03
Is that in somebody's work program to look at the community as a 11:08:00:09
whole? 11:08:04:21
>> Dennis Fernandez, manager, historic preservation. 11:08:05:06
There have been activities in West Tampa for many years, even 11:08:08:15
prior to the city formerly having a preservation department. 11:08:12:21
National register of historic district in late '80s. 11:08:18:24
Other landmark designations throughout West Tampa. 11:08:22:24
Since I've been in my position as administrator of the HPC, I 11:08:26:04
have taken the opportunity to meet with certain groups in West 11:08:28:27
Tampa and also the HPC has had a -- of sorts with residents of 11:08:33:09
West Tampa. 11:08:40:03
In my mind, the designation of West Tampa is something that will 11:08:43:01
be very difficult to achieve. 11:08:47:18
There's a low percentage of homeownership in the area. 11:08:49:25
There's a great amount of investor activity in the area. 11:08:52:18
And typically, property speculators do not warm up too well to 11:08:57:27
historic districts. 11:09:03:06
I just met with a group in West Tampa yesterday to discuss the 11:09:04:10

historic preservation ordinance. 11:09:10:21
The entire meeting was, in my mind, had a tone of how do we 11:09:13:04
circumvent these ordinances. 11:09:17:25
How do we circumvent these regulations. 11:09:19:21
The reason that the cigar factories were separated from the 11:09:23:09
designation of the entire district was because they occupied 11:09:26:25
large portions of land. 11:09:30:16
They are historically significant. 11:09:32:18
I don't think anyone has debated that, even the property owners 11:09:34:04
that are choosing to seek to opt out of the designation. 11:09:37:28
The real point here, and we often gravitate towards demolition, 11:09:42:22
is the fact that these buildings can be altered beyond 11:09:47:10
recognition. 11:09:50:15
And we had gone down that trail of how these things happen. 11:09:51:07
Well, how do buildings come down? 11:09:55:13
How do we go from 200 to 25? 11:09:57:12
The way that it happened was urban renewal, took a large chunk 11:10:00:21
of them. 11:10:05:21
The interstate coming through, and then what we refer to as 11:10:06:06
creeping demolition, which is a building such like this located 11:10:10:00
in downtown Tampa built in the early 20th century, which is 11:10:13:09
architecturally significant without any regulation, the building 11:10:18:10
becomes this. 11:10:24:07
And this building has just been a perfect demolition because it 11:10:25:12
is no longer historically or architecturally significant. 11:10:28:15

Aside from the demolition issue, which I think the economic 11:10:32:10
forces are in place to make it reasonable to tear down -- to pay 11:10:35:16
whatever the amount is, put 20 to 40 units of attached housing, 11:10:39:10
which are noncompatible with the historic areas or to make major 11:10:43:19
modifications which essential results in a demolition. 11:10:47:27
And, you know, that was the rationale behind the HPC move to 11:10:51:18
designate -- to seek designation of these buildings. 11:10:56:06
It is a big issue. 11:10:58:28
I agree with Mr. Sebastian. 11:11:00:00
But the fact is that the longer that we ponder these issues, the 11:11:01:27
more likely we are to have incidents like this occur. 11:11:05:12
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The reason last time I requested a 11:11:13:15
continuance is because I thought that people who own cigar 11:11:15:15
factories had some legitimate concerns about the cost of 11:11:19:07
maintaining them and the challenging aspects of review. 11:11:22:27
And what I suggested that the city explore were two things. 11:11:28:24
Number one, a matching fund, not a loan, but a grant, for 11:11:31:15
windows. 11:11:35:03
Because that's the biggest ticket item in the older cigar 11:11:35:18
factories. 11:11:39:03
And number two, that we develop very specific guidelines just 11:11:39:12
for cigar factories and that perhaps they are reviewed not by 11:11:42:03
the barrio or A.R.C -- and I need to apologize to Ms. Alvarez 11:11:45:03
because you were right. 11:11:50:06
I remember. 11:11:51:09

There was a huge issue, specifically the Morgan. 11:11:52:01
And to make the process more user friendly. 11:11:56:13
Because right now it -- it almost drove them crazy. 11:11:59:00
I know that. 11:12:02:06
I said let's give it till the end of January and let's see if we 11:12:03:00
can work on this. 11:12:07:00
I believe no matter how many cigar factories are designated 11:12:08:01
today -- and I prefer it be 15 -- but no matter what happens, we 11:12:11:00
need to pursue these things because the process does need to be 11:12:14:13
more user friendly and specifically because the cost of windows 11:12:17:10
in cigar factories is such an issue that people who choose to 11:12:22:12
have their factories designated should be able to get a matching 11:12:26:22
grant. 11:12:30:00
Because we're going to have some money from moving the houses 11:12:30:18
from F.D.O.T. so we'll suddenly have a source of funding. 11:12:36:12
But the other thing that I had suggested that didn't get play 11:12:40:06
but I think is worth looking at is what the economic -- what the 11:12:43:12
economics are. 11:12:47:12
The truth is, it costs more, but you've got an incredible 11:12:47:27
building. 11:12:51:06
And I'm suggesting that someone do a study of what the economics 11:12:51:21
of redoing a cigar factory are and present that to Council along 11:12:57:00
with some of these other initiatives that really need to be 11:13:02:24
administrative and staff based, but that everyone has recognized 11:13:06:01
that we need to move ahead with. 11:13:10:01

Because we all know that cigar factories are historic. 11:13:11:27
No one has debated that. 11:13:15:22
But we need to come up with ways to be able to protect them in 11:13:17:09
the future. 11:13:22:13
And I think that that is something we should pursue. 11:13:23:04
>>MARY ALVAREZ: I couldn't agree with you more, Ms. Saul-Sena. 11:13:27:16
Except for one thing. 11:13:31:10
The thing that came about with the cigar factory owners is the 11:13:33:06
fear. 11:13:37:15
It's fear that has put -- that the A.R.C. and the barrio has put 11:13:38:00
into these people because of all the regulations and the 11:13:44:07
guidelines that have been put in. 11:13:51:12
And not being able to work with them. 11:13:52:21
You mentioned the Morgan cigar factory. 11:13:55:09
That was a big issue. 11:13:58:07
I'm sorry that the owner is not here to talk about that. 11:14:01:00
Because he was completely frustrated with it. 11:14:04:15
And you know what, he's just asked for a two-year extension. 11:14:08:09
And he could even lose the building because he's running out of 11:14:13:15
money. 11:14:18:09
So when you have a situation like that and you have a dozen 11:14:21:21
cigar factory owners that listen and hear these things, yeah, 11:14:27:18
they are going to say, I don't want to be in this thing. 11:14:31:21
So that's where I'm coming from. 11:14:34:16
The other one was a gold nugget. 11:14:36:15

Ms. Baker went through heck on that too. 11:14:38:22
She went through the A.R.C. 11:14:41:10
She had a problem with that one too. 11:14:43:00
So, you know, it's just very, very hard for me to sit here 11:14:44:24
and -- and it is a property rights issue. 11:14:52:06
I don't care what anybody says. 11:14:56:06
When you come to my house and you tell me how -- what I want to 11:14:58:06
do in my house, we have a problem. 11:15:02:12
Unless you're going to buy my house. 11:15:04:06
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Your house is not historic. 11:15:06:00
>>MARY ALVAREZ: I understand -- oh, it could be, it's 50 years 11:15:07:16
old. 11:15:11:16
It could very well be. 11:15:12:03
But you know, I have a problem with that. 11:15:13:12
And they want to be opted out. 11:15:16:24
They know that there are historic properties. 11:15:18:22
And like you said, nobody is questioning that the fact remains 11:15:23:13
these are big buildings. 11:15:29:24
Mammoth buildings. 11:15:31:25
It will cost them millions of dollars to do it. 11:15:33:27
You're talking about -- let's try to put some money. 11:15:36:06
We've got a trust fund going. 11:15:38:19
Has anybody gone on and say, let's get a loan from that? 11:15:40:27
The trust fund from the rehab? 11:15:47:22
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's what I'm trying to put in place. 11:15:49:24

>>MARY ALVAREZ: How long has it been? 11:15:52:13
>> The interstate historic preservation trust fund was, as you 11:15:56:06
know, as a result of the sale of the F.D.O.T. houses, recently 11:15:59:24
we just had our first review cycle conclude with that particular 11:16:03:27
loan program which offers loans up to $200,000 for a period of a 11:16:08:21
maximum of two years to qualified applicants. 11:16:13:03
On the one issue that you're talking about with Mr. Jammal, the 11:16:16:18
Morgan cigar factory, Mr. Jammal requested a loan of 11:16:19:24
$200,000 and the advisory review committee approved that 11:16:23:10
recommendation and is forwarding that to the Mayor and to this 11:16:27:10
board for consideration. 11:16:31:03
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Thank you. 11:16:32:15
I didn't know about that. 11:16:33:21
>> He's also applied for federal tax credits, which comes with 11:16:35:18
an area being a national register district, nationally 11:16:39:22
designated. 11:16:43:28
He's also applied for the local ad valorem incentive which in 11:16:44:22
his case would most likely result in property tax exempt of 35 11:16:48:28
to $40,000 a year. 11:16:53:07
That's what we're seeing typically on buildings of that size for 11:16:55:03
a ten-year period for total of $400,000. 11:16:57:25
So there are incentives in place. 11:17:01:13
Once again, the incentives are only available when work is 11:17:03:27
initiated. 11:17:07:00
If -- with the designation doesn't mandate that the work is 11:17:07:21

done. 11:17:11:27
However, when it's initiated, there are incentives that can be 11:17:12:12
taken advantage of to offset the burden of restoring a historic 11:17:16:27
building. 11:17:20:18
Because there is a certain burden of restoring historic building 11:17:21:06
correct. 11:17:24:19
That's why those programs have been created to compensate owners 11:17:25:01
for that reason. 11:17:30:19
>>GWEN MILLER: I have a question. 11:17:31:06
If the cigar factories are designated historical, would they 11:17:33:00
have to do any remodelling at the time just when they decide 11:17:35:27
that they want to do something -- 11:17:39:01
>> They would be required to do absolutely nothing. 11:17:41:15
What they would be required to do is when they begin to do work 11:17:44:04
beyond basic maintenance, then there would be an approval 11:17:48:19
process, whatever that process may be, that would need to adhere 11:17:51:24
to the second, the interior standards. 11:17:55:12
Which are very broad guidelines for restoring or rehabilitating 11:17:58:04
historic structures. 11:18:04:15
>>GWEN MILLER: If they don't want to do anything, they can just 11:18:06:10
sit there. 11:18:10:06
>> Don't have to do anything. 11:18:11:03
They have to meet minimum standards through the city of Tampa 11:18:13:19
code. 11:18:16:03
That's a separate issue. 11:18:16:15

That's beyond preservation. 11:18:17:16
That's with code enforcement. 11:18:20:00
>>GWEN MILLER: Would they be allowed to sell that building? 11:18:20:24
>> Yes, they would be. 11:18:23:24
They would be allowed to sell the building. 11:18:24:21
They would be allowed to add on to the building. 11:18:27:03
They would be allowed to make changes to the building as long as 11:18:29:19
those changes were in compliance with the guidelines in place. 11:18:34:10
In order to be a certified local government, which gives us the 11:18:38:22
ability to offer the tax incentives, you have to have a review 11:18:41:28
board. 11:18:46:27
There has to be a review process or else you're not eligible to 11:18:47:09
offer the tax abatement. 11:18:50:27
>>GWEN MILLER: So if they sell the building, would that person 11:18:52:03
be able to demolish the building or would they have to keep that 11:18:54:21
building there and go by the guidelines? 11:18:58:00
>> Everybody building designated can be demolished if it meets 11:19:00:07
criteria. 11:19:03:19
If the building is determined to be structurally unsound, then 11:19:03:28
it's the responsibility of whatever the reviewing board is to 11:19:07:03
issue that demolition permit. 11:19:10:03
It does require that they go through a review process. 11:19:12:01
Today, there is a review process for any structure in the city 11:19:15:25
50 years or older for demolition. 11:19:19:16
So we do have language in the ordinance that addresses that 11:19:21:18

already. 11:19:25:21
And that kicks in the emergency designation process which I 11:19:26:07
think we may be familiar with. 11:19:29:00
What is not in place right now is a review for any type of 11:19:31:12
changes to the building. 11:19:34:25
So if a property owner tomorrow decided to hypothetically stucco 11:19:36:09
a building, they would just go need to pull a permit. 11:19:41:24
The historic preservation division would not even be advised of 11:19:44:21
that. 11:19:48:03
>>GWEN MILLER: Are you going to put that in the ordinance? 11:19:48:15
>> That's not presently in the proposed ordinance. 11:19:55:07
>>GWEN MILLER: You can't add that to that? 11:19:56:24
>> We can add -- at this point, we can add something to that; 11:19:59:27
however, I think you have to have buildings identified as being 11:20:02:25
historic before you are able to place that catch-all in there. 11:20:05:28
That's what we're attempting to do. 11:20:09:12
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ms. WYSONG, I just wanted to clarify 11:20:12:04
something with Council. 11:20:19:06
Historically as we've developed these ordinances, when you're in 11:20:27:19
Hyde Park and you have an issue, you go in front of the A.R.C. 11:20:30:09
That's because this Council decided years ago when you are in 11:20:34:04
Hyde Park or Seminole Heights, you are going to go in front of 11:20:47:00
the A.R.C. 11:20:49:28
We create those regulations. 11:20:50:28
They don't come down from Washington or anywhere else. 11:20:52:12

We create them. 11:20:55:15
When you are in Ybor City and you have issues, you go to the 11:20:56:21
Barrio Latino, the BLC. 11:20:59:10
Because we created that system. 11:21:02:01
And what I'm wondering about, Ms. WYSONG, is for these unique 11:21:03:10
buildings, couldn't we create a different mechanism? 11:21:09:00
Because I hear about fear. 11:21:13:09
Mary mentioned fear. 11:21:14:21
Those folks have met with me and expressed their fear that they 11:21:16:07
don't want to get wrapped up in the BLC. 11:21:20:00
Don't want to get wrapped up in the A.R.C. 11:21:22:22
Maybe they would feel more comfortable if we were that body. 11:21:25:09
There are not that many of them. 11:21:29:28
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Do that after March, 2007. 11:21:34:00
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm serious. 11:21:37:24
There are not that many of them and I don't think the issue 11:21:39:06
would come up that often. 11:21:42:03
For the cigar factories only. 11:21:43:28
So unique and the fear is there. 11:21:46:06
Donna, isn't there any reason we couldn't designate ourselves as 11:21:48:21
that special board for those purposes. 11:21:52:19
>> I can't think of any reason. 11:21:55:12
You are absolutely right. 11:21:56:25
You created the reviewing boards for the particular geographic 11:21:57:27
areas. 11:22:01:12

In this case, you certainly would be allowed to designate 11:22:01:27
yourself as the reviewing board for the cigar factories. 11:22:04:13
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: My point is, if we wanted to make sure they 11:22:06:27
were being treated fairly that the city wasn't being too picky 11:22:09:24
about which window -- we all watch the A.R.C. and B.L.C. and 11:22:14:21
sometimes I think we all agree that they can be a little too 11:22:19:22
picky. 11:22:23:16
If we want to control that, we shouldn't delegate that authority 11:22:24:19
to any board. 11:22:28:10
These 15 buildings so unique, let's just consider keeping that 11:22:29:15
authority ourselves. 11:22:33:03
>>KEVIN WHITE: I'll have some other comments later once we close 11:22:36:16
the public hearing. 11:22:39:09
Speaking about the other districts that Mr. Dingfelder was just 11:22:40:09
speaking about, Seminole Heights, Tampa Heights and South Tampa, 11:22:44:18
the difference between those and this particular proposal that 11:22:48:12
we're trying to do now, those are specific districts. 11:22:54:22
Those are geographical grids. 11:22:59:19
Those are city blocks. 11:23:01:24
Those are connecting and contiguous properties. 11:23:03:04
With this particular process, it seems that we've gone out and 11:23:06:24
singled out all of the individual property owners, none of these 11:23:11:06
of which are contiguous properties. 11:23:17:07
And I was going to read this later. 11:23:21:00
But one of the things -- I was looking at the e-mail that was 11:23:23:18

sent to us by the southeast Seminole Heights Civic Association. 11:23:26:09
The young lady read, I don't know her name. 11:23:30:19
What is good imposing guidelines on one structure when opted out 11:23:34:04
the abutting structure is free from such scrutiny and review. 11:23:39:01
The abutting property is the key word there. 11:23:43:21
None of these are abutting. 11:23:47:07
These are several blocks away. 11:23:49:00
Not contiguous properties. 11:23:51:07
I'm not saying at this point in time that I'm going one way or 11:23:56:06
the other. 11:23:59:01
But I'm saying that's the difference between those other 11:23:59:18
historical districts and guidelines that separates this and 11:24:02:16
makes this a totally separate animal in itself. 11:24:05:03
So I just wanted to make that point for now and I'll have some 11:24:09:24
other comments later. 11:24:12:21
>>GWEN MILLER: We'll go back to the audience and let them finish 11:24:14:16
speaking. 11:24:17:13
Next. 11:24:18:00
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Sorry for the delay. 11:24:19:27
>> My name is Hamilton Jones. 11:24:21:22
I own a business called gas park properties. 11:24:25:19
I own one of the subject cigar factories. 11:24:28:18
The one at 200 North Edison, Thompson and company factory. 11:24:30:28
I want to come down today and go on record to say I'm in support 11:24:34:16
of the ordinance as it stands. 11:24:38:10

My occupation, I'm a real estate developer. 11:24:41:25
Listening to Ms. Alvarez' comments, as a developer I want to put 11:24:47:10
that hat on. 11:24:50:28
I understand property rights and every project we do, we like to 11:24:52:01
have no oversight no regulation. 11:24:55:00
Just makes our project easier. 11:24:56:27
But the reality is, there are always guidelines you have to meet 11:24:58:27
and code you have to meet, whether it be trees and stormwater, 11:25:01:21
parking requirements. 11:25:06:21
What really motivated me to come down and speak today, you know, 11:25:07:21
I'm kind of conflicted. 11:25:11:09
I'm a preservationist on one hand and also a real estate 11:25:13:00
developer. 11:25:16:01
But to me, I just think these structures are too important to 11:25:16:10
the city of Tampa. 11:25:20:13
So I'm in support of the ordinance. 11:25:21:12
As far as the opting out, I think that's a slippery slope. 11:25:24:13
We talk about -- I'm listening to you talk about the abutting 11:25:28:03
property owner doesn't have to meet it while this guy does, 11:25:32:06
these temperatures are too important. 11:25:35:24
I think it's worth it. 11:25:37:03
I mean, it will add extra dollars to their construction budgets 11:25:38:10
if they ever decide to renovate them. 11:25:41:19
But the payback is probably threefold. 11:25:43:27
It's proportionate. 11:25:46:22

If you spend a little money, you sell it for a little more 11:25:47:24
money. 11:25:50:06
Spend more dollars, you sell it for even more money. 11:25:50:19
Just about every neighborhood I go into and if I do a historic 11:25:53:22
restoration project, it seems to be a catalyst. 11:25:57:21
All of a sudden, the neighbor starts fixing his house up. 11:26:00:19
Elbowing the husband, get out there and paint our house. 11:26:06:18
It tends to grow that way. 11:26:09:25
I think it's an important issue, and I support it. 11:26:11:09
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you. 11:26:13:22
Next. 11:26:14:22
>> Elizabeth Johnson, 1819 Richardson place. 11:26:18:06
I do have a speaker waiver form. 11:26:21:12
>>MARTIN SHELBY: Three names. 11:26:30:21
Larry. 11:26:33:27
John Phillips, and LAILA Dunn. 11:26:35:03
Thank you. 11:26:38:27
Three additional minutes. 11:26:40:18
>> I think what I want to address today is going back to your 11:26:44:15
code, because some of the concerns that you all have had, 11:26:47:25
believe it or not, your code addresses them. 11:26:52:04
And there are two letters that TPI received via public records 11:26:54:27
act request from the City Attorney's office. 11:27:00:01
And what the letters make clear dated March 14th, 2005 and 11:27:02:06
September 28th, 2004 is that there is no opt-out provision in 11:27:06:28

our code. 11:27:12:28
In fact, in the letter from David Smith, he says to the attorney 11:27:15:27
who represents the developer or some of the cigar family owners, 11:27:21:12
your letter seems to be predicated on the concept that your 11:27:25:15
client's consent is required in order for the regulations of the 11:27:29:06
City of Tampa Code to apply to them. 11:27:33:09
We know of no case law or other authority that states that your 11:27:35:06
client must consent to be regulated by the city. 11:27:38:28
And indeed in the earlier letter from Ms. Cate O'Dowd, she made 11:27:41:28
it clear that the provisions that operate are in 27-231 which is 11:27:46:27
the initiation of the designation process and how you show 11:27:52:15
economic hardship. 11:27:57:09
So every cigar factory owner in here can go through our existing 11:27:58:03
code and show the economic hardship. 11:28:03:06
What concerns me is when we immediately cry, oh, we've never 11:28:05:28
seen this before, let's jettison our code. 11:28:10:13
Also, what concerns me and I'm so -- I'm glad that Ms. Saul-Sena 11:28:13:21
is looking at other ways, because it is hard to live in an 11:28:20:09
historic property. 11:28:25:24
It would be very difficult, indeed, to have those cigar 11:28:26:25
factories and have that albatross of trying to renovate them. 11:28:29:18
But the code gives allowances. 11:28:36:04
The federal government gives tax breaks. 11:28:38:12
Maybe Tampa instead of litigating with developers and not 11:28:40:00
working with them well could take the impetus like you're saying 11:28:42:16

and create a super fund. 11:28:46:06
We have these remaining cigar factories, let's create this 11:28:48:21
wonderful fund to address them. I'm an embarrassed ham here 11:28:51:27
because before he spoke, I was going to use him as an example. 11:28:57:21
When they want to do a development, we can almost bless it 11:29:02:25
without even looking at the plan. 11:29:06:21
Because his goal is so pure, his belief in preservation is so 11:29:11:04
strong. 11:29:15:04
I also want to disabuse us of the notion that because a property 11:29:16:12
is separate from other historic properties, that makes this code 11:29:19:15
not apply. 11:29:23:15
Council member Alvarez, Council member White, if you owned a 11:29:26:16
historic saloon and the HPC wanted under the code to initiate 11:29:30:27
the designation process, you could do that regardless of what 11:29:38:13
was next to it. 11:29:43:22
The idea ask -- the idea is if this is preservation worthy, you 11:29:44:24
can initiate that process. 11:29:50:15
If you, Ms. Alvarez say this is my property right, I'm sorry, I 11:29:52:01
don't want to live with it, well, then you go through the 11:29:56:07
economic feasibility determination. 11:29:59:28
It's not difficult to do. 11:30:02:03
You make the standards. 11:30:03:15
You meet that criteria. 11:30:08:22
When I asked the City Attorney's office, opt out, where is the 11:30:09:21
opt-out provision? 11:30:13:19

Well, they agreed, it doesn't exist. 11:30:15:09
So let's go through before we say, oh, we've never seen this 11:30:17:07
before and it's terrible and no other community across the 11:30:20:28
nation has probably ever addressed this kind of issue, maybe 11:30:23:18
let's go back and look at the code that was written probably it 11:30:26:27
was taken from some other code that withstood constitutional 11:30:31:15
scrutiny and look at that first. 11:30:35:24
And in the interim, the property owners, I would just encourage 11:30:38:03
our neighborhoods do not want to be against you. 11:30:43:09
Our preservation-oriented people do not want to be against you. 11:30:48:00
You bought these beautiful historic homes for a reason. 11:30:51:27
Maybe instead of spending all the money that we spend worrying 11:30:58:07
about litigation with developers, maybe we can take a step in 11:31:01:00
the right direction and say we're going to be out there known as 11:31:04:21
the community that has created this super fund to help the 11:31:09:06
Mr. Sebastians. 11:31:14:18
Because I think we can do it and I think our history is worth 11:31:16:06
it. 11:31:18:16
Thank you. 11:31:18:28
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you. 11:31:22:09
Next. 11:31:22:24
Come back, we have a question for you. 11:31:23:21
>>KEVIN WHITE: I guess it will be for Ms. WYSONG about a couple 11:31:25:09
of the comments. 11:31:29:15
I think there seems to be some confusion from our previous 11:31:30:18

meeting on this issue where whether staff conveyed that 11:31:36:01
confusion to the property owners or whether it was just some 11:31:41:07
in-house confusion of whether people could opt out or not. 11:31:46:15
Now, are we saying that there is no opt-out code, period, 11:31:52:00
because the reason I'm asking that is because we've had cases 11:31:57:09
that have come before us before for historic preservation, 11:32:00:18
paradise missionary Baptist church comes to mind right off hand. 11:32:07:22
Reverend Davis, the big blue church on Scott and governor, and 11:32:11:22
we gave him the option of whether he wanted to opt out or not. 11:32:16:00
He did not -- he did not want his church included. 11:32:19:16
He met with you all after going through a couple of weeks of 11:32:22:21
debate with historic preservation, they went ahead and went 11:32:27:00
ahead with the designation. 11:32:32:25
But we gave him the opportunity, and there were two or three 11:32:34:01
others that were included. 11:32:38:03
I don't remember -- I wish I had done my homework on that one. 11:32:39:28
I didn't know this opt-out issue was going to be such a big 11:32:43:03
deal. 11:32:46:12
But we have set a precedent in the past of allowing historic 11:32:46:24
buildings and designations to be opted out in the past. 11:32:51:03
Now, I'm not saying I'm for that. 11:32:54:01
I'm not saying I'm against that. 11:32:55:27
But what I'm saying is, we can't allow it for certain petitions 11:32:58:04
and not for others. 11:33:02:13
>> Actually, you are correct. 11:33:06:28

There is no opt-out provision in the ordinance itself. 11:33:07:25
Those situations that you refer to that have been handled in the 11:33:11:04
past, that has really been a matter of policy that you all have 11:33:14:15
adopted with regard to certain properties. 11:33:18:00
It is not found in the ordinance. 11:33:21:03
The only provision in the ordinance that would allow a property 11:33:22:15
owner to come before you and make a case that they should not be 11:33:27:18
designated is under the 27-231-D-1 which I spoke about earlier, 11:33:31:09
which is -- they can initiate an economic feasibility study. 11:33:36:12
And if they can prove to you that they can't put their property 11:33:40:27
to a reasonable beneficial use or for income producing 11:33:46:13
properties that the applicant can obtain a reasonable return 11:33:51:06
from the property, then at that point, they have proven to you 11:33:54:12
an economic infeasibility and they've met their burden. 11:33:57:06
And then you would not designate them. 11:34:00:25
But as far as just a voluntary opt-out, that isn't found in the 11:34:03:00
code. 11:34:06:15
>>KEVIN WHITE: Well, as a matter of course and as a matter of 11:34:06:21
past practices, whether it's been policy or whether it's been 11:34:10:12
ordinance, we've allowed it to happen. 11:34:13:13
>> That's my understanding, yes. 11:34:16:24
>>KEVIN WHITE: So we either need to tighten up our policy, or we 11:34:18:07
need to tighten up our ordinance and stop the ambiguity between 11:34:22:22
the public and what Council is doing one way or the other. 11:34:28:00
And either stick to the guns one way or the other and finally 11:34:30:22

draw the line in the sand and say well, this is the way it's 11:34:35:00
going to be from henceforth and forevermore. 11:34:38:10
But in the middle of a petition is not the time to do it. 11:34:40:18
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We kind of operate on the basis that it 11:34:48:21
doesn't hurt to ask. 11:34:50:25
I think what Mr. Grandoff did, he felt like it didn't hurt to 11:34:52:00
ask. 11:34:56:06
We had a public hearing, he came and he asked. 11:34:57:15
What I thought our Legal Department should have done more 11:34:59:15
clearly -- nothing personal -- but you should have said more 11:35:01:22
strongly it wasn't a choice and you didn't. 11:35:04:24
But that's the truth. 11:35:07:03
When the armature works and I don't know if you know Mr. Turner, 11:35:09:00
he was -- exactly -- came before us, he wasn't real enthusiastic 11:35:12:09
about the armature works being designated but he saw it wasn't a 11:35:19:07
choice, and it got designated. 11:35:22:16
That's happened with other people in the past. 11:35:24:18
And I think that legal, frankly, didn't do as good a job as you 11:35:26:16
might have done -- nothing personal -- to explain to Council 11:35:30:25
that what Mr. Grandoff was requesting wasn't something that we 11:35:34:06
have the ability to do. 11:35:36:21
And if Mr. Grandoff wanted to have his clients do the economic 11:35:38:24
study, then he had that choice. 11:35:43:03
That was his option. 11:35:44:16
But honestly, Donna, it could have been stronger. 11:35:45:16

You needed to be more clear with Council that that wasn't a 11:35:48:13
choice. 11:35:51:19
>>MARY ALVAREZ: I feel the same way. 11:35:52:25
I mean, I feel like we've been talking about this for ages now, 11:35:54:09
and this thing was there all the time. 11:35:58:03
Thank you very much for bringing this up. 11:36:02:15
All these cigar factory owners had to do was fill out a report 11:36:05:13
and say, we want to do it this way and have the economic 11:36:08:28
feasibility study and that's it. 11:36:13:19
And here we are 12 months later and we're still talking about 11:36:15:03
the same thing. 11:36:18:12
You know, I'm really upset about this. 11:36:19:12
>> Well, they were all sent letters back last year telling them, 11:36:22:24
explaining in great detail the letter that Ms. Johnson read to 11:36:25:21
you was a letter that Cate O'Dowd sent to them last year, and it 11:36:28:15
explains in great detail what the process is if they want to 11:36:33:12
have a stay. 11:36:36:07
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Well, did we get a copy of that letter? 11:36:37:03
>> I don't know. 11:36:40:10
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Well, thank you. 11:36:40:22
>>ROSE FERLITA: I don't think we need -- Ms. Alvarez, I think 11:36:41:21
your frustration and mine and everybody else is the same. 11:36:46:03
I don't think we need to direct it to Ms. WYSONG alone. 11:36:52:27
This whole thing has been problematic for all of us. 11:36:55:18
Whatever your position is, it will be a philosophical position. 11:36:59:03

Or we wanted to look more importantly at property rights. 11:37:06:06
When Ms. Johnson came up, and I've been struggling with this 11:37:08:27
anyway, but when Ms. Johnson came up, I really knew I had a 11:37:13:06
problem. 11:37:17:07
When you start talking -- because she makes some valid points. 11:37:17:22
If there is no opt-out provision in the City of Tampa for this 11:37:24:07
and you refer back to 27-231-D-1, and Mr. Grandoff's clients 11:37:28:19
have the right to show or have the responsibility to show that 11:37:34:27
there's an economic hardship, that should be my determining 11:37:38:21
factor. 11:37:42:12
Because you can talk about this sensitivity either way. 11:37:43:06
I mean, property rights. 11:37:47:15
I see people talking about factories. 11:37:49:18
My grandfather's brother was the owner of the factory on Howard 11:37:52:19
Avenue. 11:37:56:27
My grandfather was a foreman at Garcia Vega. 11:37:57:15
So everybody can bring up something that's particularly 11:38:00:00
emotional to them. 11:38:03:15
>>GWEN MILLER: Are they still there? 11:38:05:03
>>ROSE FERLITA: No. 11:38:06:12
But I think -- now I'm really not prepared to go forward, 11:38:07:04
because now I think that there's one mechanism that wasn't 11:38:12:01
exercised. 11:38:16:01
And that's the economic feasibility process that shows economic 11:38:16:18
hardship or it doesn't. 11:38:20:18

And that being said, period. 11:38:22:09
Mr. Dingfelder, I know you were struggling to try to find 11:38:26:18
something. 11:38:29:24
They may think A.R.C. or barrio or somebody is hard to get along 11:38:30:06
with, what would give them some assurance because they were 11:38:34:22
having a problem as you referred to that this board or any board 11:38:37:09
following us in terms of the City Council would not be just as 11:38:40:24
difficult to get along with. 11:38:44:21
It was an attempt to try to remedy this but for the reasons we 11:38:45:24
don't know what is coming after Mary leaves in March of '07 or I 11:38:49:06
leave sooner. 11:38:53:06
So I think we have to go back -- and what I'm saying, I'm 11:38:53:27
appreciative of what you are trying to do. 11:38:57:03
You are struggling to try to save these factors. 11:38:58:28
We're struggling to try to look at property rights. 11:39:01:06
But I think at the end of the day, the one thing that is making 11:39:03:24
my decision most difficult if not impossible today is what 11:39:07:15
Ms. Johnson brought up and I think it's very appropriate. 11:39:11:12
We need to go back to the hardship process. 11:39:14:13
>>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder. 11:39:17:00
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, I'm trying to figure out what our 11:39:20:09
options are. 11:39:23:09
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We can continue this. 11:39:23:25
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, no. 11:39:25:01
I don't know that we need to continue to continue. 11:39:26:00

>> Can I intercede here for a second? 11:39:27:24
>>GWEN MILLER: Yes. 11:39:30:21
>> The economic feasibility process has been discussed many 11:39:31:12
times with regard to this issue. 11:39:34:27
In fact, it was discussed two meetings ago on this issue. 11:39:36:13
In fact, Mr. Dingfelder and Ms. Saul-Sena had a little exchange 11:39:40:06
on it and Mr. Dingfelder in fact outlined for Ms. Saul-Sena how 11:39:44:07
the economic feasibility process is something that why would 11:39:47:25
they want -- why would the property owners want to do it? 11:39:51:24
It would basically prove that this is not economically 11:39:56:03
unfeasible. 11:40:01:09
It's a lengthy process. 11:40:02:16
It's been discussed at great length with all of the property 11:40:03:24
owners. 11:40:06:16
And simply, the bottom line is, the city cannot force them to 11:40:07:01
engage in an economic feasibility study. 11:40:10:13
It's at the option of the property owner. 11:40:14:06
You can't force them to engage in it. 11:40:16:06
There's an expense associated with it as I understand. 11:40:18:25
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: It appears to me that one of our -- we have 11:40:24:21
several options today. 11:40:27:13
But one of our options is to go back to where we started which 11:40:28:27
is to go back to where we started which is to designate all 15 11:40:36:01
factories based upon the ordinance that we have -- the bigger 11:40:39:28
ordinance that we have in place that allows for the economic 11:40:44:10

feasibility of that's the opt-out. 11:40:47:03
The economic feasibility approach, that's the opt out. 11:40:50:12
And that's already in place. 11:40:53:28
So in light of all the testimony that we've heard over the last 11:40:56:12
months and months, I'm very comfortable now with moving forward 11:41:01:19
with the designation of all 15 factories. 11:41:04:12
No opt out. 11:41:07:15
Opting out legal has indicated is not even an option in our 11:41:08:18
ordinance. 11:41:12:15
If, in fact, as Kevin has pointed out, we had several, not a 11:41:13:12
lot, but we had a handful of folks who by some informal policy 11:41:17:03
of this board we allowed to opt out. 11:41:21:21
Frankly, it was usually associated with churches. 11:41:24:12
So we sort of had a little soft spot in our heart for the 11:41:26:12
various churches. 11:41:30:06
But that's not an issue now. 11:41:32:21
I think we should go back to the policy that, you know, if these 11:41:35:00
are appropriate for designation, and I think we all agree they 11:41:38:27
are, we have to treat them all the same and move forward. 11:41:41:24
So with that -- 11:41:45:07
>>GWEN MILLER: We have some other people who want to speak? 11:41:47:24
They've been sitting waiting patiently. 11:41:51:21
Let's hear them speak. 11:41:55:12
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I didn't see them behind the Christmas tree. 11:41:57:19
>> I have a slide show which I'm only going to show maybe five 11:42:01:10

or six of the 20 slides. 11:42:04:13
My name is Stephanie Ferrell. 11:42:05:27
And I do have a waiver form. 11:42:08:13
>> [INAUDIBLE]. 11:42:20:10
>> Three of two. 11:42:32:19
I don't plan to use that much time. 11:42:33:12
And I do have a Powerpoint if they can turn that on for me. 11:42:34:27
>> It's on. 11:42:39:03
>> Okay. 11:42:43:12
The point of this show is just one thing is to show the 11:42:43:18
deterioration that can happen to historic cigar factories over 11:42:47:06
time when they are either altered or not properly maintained. 11:42:53:24
This is the LA MEGA. 11:43:03:22
The first slide was 2001. 11:43:08:12
You can see it had a parapet and cornice. 11:43:10:13
Second slide, the cornice has been removed and roofline changed 11:43:13:03
and the windows which boarded up are not boarded up and the 11:43:18:04
building is not secured. 11:43:21:12
That's now at 2005. 11:43:22:21
Follow-up slide, 2005, again, the building is not being 11:43:25:09
maintained. 11:43:28:25
Nothing against the owners. 11:43:29:16
I just want you to see that buildings are not meeting minimum 11:43:30:18
standards and if that happens for a long period of time, then a 11:43:34:03
request for demolition can be and is often inevitable. 11:43:41:21

I'm just showing you without protection this kind of thing can 11:43:46:00
happen. 11:43:49:27
The same building, La Mega in Palmetto Beach, the rear of the 11:43:50:12
building. 11:43:56:25
Rear of the building. 11:43:57:13
And then this is 2001 and 2005 together in one slide. 11:44:00:15
So you can see that the alteration has happened. 11:44:06:12
And it does happen. 11:44:09:09
Because there has been no design review. 11:44:11:00
The fabric on the roof was removed because there was nobody to 11:44:15:03
tell them that they couldn't do it in an appropriate manner. 11:44:18:15
I'm going to pass through the rest of the slides quickly until I 11:44:26:16
get to the final slide. 11:44:29:09
This is one is the Salvadore Rodriguez Factory. 11:44:30:21
This is the La Corina Factory. 11:44:35:15
You can make your own decisions as far as state of maintenance. 11:44:41:28
The Rodriguez again. 11:44:45:00
This is the Sam I. Davis Cigar Factory. 11:44:45:28
It is 900 North Howard at Cypress. 11:44:50:10
This is in 1997. 11:44:53:15
This is in 2003. 11:44:56:09
You can see many windows broken out. 11:44:57:15
It's worse now. 11:45:01:18
This is 2003, and then you can see 2005 in the lower corner, and 11:45:03:03
there are additional windows that are not being maintained. 11:45:08:25

Still Sam I. Davis Cigar Factory. 11:45:16:27
The rear of the building, windows broken, building not being 11:45:19:12
maintained. 11:45:22:13
It does raise the question about the enforcement of the city's 11:45:23:09
minimum standards. 11:45:27:00
Again, same building, Sam I. Davis. 11:45:30:24
This is the Balbin Brothers Cigar Factory in West Tampa. 11:45:33:12
1997 and 2005. 11:45:39:06
Some alterations with canopies. 11:45:42:15
The building actually looks to be in similar condition over the 11:45:45:06
last eight years, seven or eight years. 11:45:48:28
Sam Martin Leon boarded up. 11:45:53:00
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Is that the one on Cherry -- or Pine and Howard. 11:45:58:18
>> It's 2200 North Howard. 11:46:04:07
>>MARY ALVAREZ: 2200? 11:46:06:24
>> 2200 North Howard. 11:46:08:12
>>MARY ALVAREZ: That's across from the Olympia Bakery. 11:46:10:12
>> Yes. 11:46:14:15
>>MARY ALVAREZ: That's been fixed. 11:46:14:24
>> This is its current condition, 2005. 11:46:17:13
So it has been repaired. 11:46:20:18
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Ven evaluated. 11:46:22:13
>> This is the Bustillo Brothers Cigar Factory which is the 11:46:24:15
factory owned by Franklin Sebastian. 11:46:28:12
This was the building in 1997, that is it in 2003. 11:46:31:00

And there it is in 2005. 11:46:36:09
It looks good. 11:46:39:00
Definitely a good steward. 11:46:41:09
This is the Perfecto Garcia Cigar Factory in 1997. 11:46:42:25
And this is it in 2005. 11:46:49:18
And actually, the lower windows are broken out. 11:46:52:09
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: What is that structure on the left corner? 11:46:55:09
>> It's an addition to the building. 11:47:00:22
It was done, looks like it's probably '50s or '60s. 11:47:04:06
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Looks like a mobile home attached. 11:47:07:15
>> It does. 11:47:10:01
And then the success story that I mentioned to you is the 11:47:10:24
Corral Wodiska, 1997, fairly poor shape with some broken out 11:47:14:21
windows, owned by, at this point by Mr. Capitano, Joe Capitano. 11:47:22:04
It is in the Barrio Latino Historic District. 11:47:26:25
It was rehabilitated. 11:47:30:01
2005, this is a photograph of it. 11:47:34:22
November, December this year. 11:47:36:19
And the owner received approximately $300,000 in tax credits and 11:47:41:13
he is saving due to his designation approximately $33,000 a year 11:47:50:00
in property taxes. 11:47:53:15
And that only would have been available for a property that's in 11:47:55:10
an historic district or designated as a local landmark. 11:47:58:21
So that con clues my presentation. 11:48:03:21
And I'd be happy to answer any questions. 11:48:06:18

Thank you. 11:48:08:13
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Ms. Ferrell, what about the properties that you 11:48:08:22
showed that were still in disrepair? 11:48:13:07
>> Yes. 11:48:15:18
>>MARY ALVAREZ: And you said that they were code enforcement 11:48:15:24
problems? 11:48:20:15
>> I'm saying, I don't know the status of code enforcement, but 11:48:21:22
all I'm saying is apparently whatever code enforcement might 11:48:25:25
have been doing, it hasn't effected a positive change to the 11:48:31:19
facades at this point. 11:48:34:12
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Now, what happens if these buildings that are in 11:48:35:04
disrepair and they go into the historic preservation designation 11:48:38:27
and the owners don't have the money to fix them, what happens 11:48:43:12
then? 11:48:46:04
>> I think that's a question for Dennis to answer. 11:48:46:21
I believe there's a repair issue and it can be repaired. 11:48:50:18
>> As far as funding, councilwoman, the historic preservation 11:48:55:21
trust fund, the highest priority for qualifying for funds under 11:48:59:25
that program is the threat to the endangerment of a property. 11:49:04:00
So qualifying for funds would be looked at on an emergency basis 11:49:08:06
to mothball or properly secure building to do roof repairs, to 11:49:13:24
keep the elements out, to board up windows. 11:49:19:03
Not necessarily repair the windows, but at least secure the 11:49:21:28
building with proper -- a proper method. 11:49:24:28
>>MARY ALVAREZ: In other words, the HPI would take over control 11:49:27:09

of the building? 11:49:31:21
>> No, ma'am. 11:49:33:09
The building is the property of the owner; however, there would 11:49:33:15
be funds that would be available to at least secure the building 11:49:37:13
until there was a redevelopment plan in place. 11:49:40:24
>>MARY ALVAREZ: And it would be funds that would be like a 11:49:42:18
grant, or would it be a low-cost loan? 11:49:45:18
>> At this point, we have a low-cost loan set up for that. 11:49:49:12
And we are talking about with the additional 29 F.D.O.T. houses 11:49:52:09
of setting up an emergency fund which would be a grant fund that 11:49:56:24
we would apply to designated buildings. 11:50:00:15
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Okay. 11:50:04:09
Thank you. 11:50:05:06
>>GWEN MILLER: Next. 11:50:06:22
>> Good morning. 11:50:10:12
Becky Clark. 11:50:10:28
I'm here as a citizen, but I am the Executive Director of Tampa 11:50:12:07
preservation and I'm also the president of the Florida trust for 11:50:16:13
historic preservation. 11:50:20:00
I will have at 5139 South Nickel Street. 11:50:20:25
First of all, I would also like to present you all -- I brought 11:50:24:01
copies of a statewide economic impact study that was done on 11:50:28:10
historic preservation. 11:50:32:01
There is data from Tampa that was specifically used in this 11:50:33:09
study. 11:50:36:06

And I would like to present you all this for review. 11:50:36:18
The second thing I would like to do is kind of answer a few 11:50:46:03
comments made by some earlier speakers. 11:50:48:25
The designation won't affect issues such as children throwing 11:50:52:00
rocks at windows or cars being vandalized. 11:50:55:27
I think those are problems that we have other areas of the city 11:51:00:09
to address. 11:51:02:16
I don't think that should have a bearing on whether these 11:51:03:24
structures are historic and merit the designation. 11:51:06:12
I also think the comment from the Seminole Heights letter where 11:51:11:24
the neighboring properties are not affected in this situation 11:51:17:10
because there are no neighboring properties and the opt-out 11:51:22:01
would have no affect on them, if the opt-out condition was 11:51:26:18
allowed here, it's going to affect the historic districts also. 11:51:32:18
Then those people are going to say, why should I be in a 11:51:36:06
district if I can opt out? 11:51:38:28
So I think it's a really slippery slope as someone else said, 11:51:40:12
that you all said. 11:51:45:00
The basic issue is the ordinance and the process has not been 11:51:45:27
followed in this case. 11:51:49:27
You've had the discussion, there is an option for these owners 11:51:51:13
to elect to pursue the process for determining economic 11:51:54:24
hardship. 11:51:58:21
That has not been enacted. 11:51:59:03
And it's also been noted that this is -- owner consent is not 11:52:04:03

required and is constitutionally defensible to designate a 11:52:11:04
structure. 11:52:15:10
We do have serious concerns that Council has not followed the 11:52:18:03
ordinance that is in place. 11:52:21:12
You know, if changes are needed, so be it. 11:52:22:25
But right now, we've got to act on the ordinance that we 11:52:25:15
currently have. 11:52:28:18
I think that puts us all on a level playing field. 11:52:29:09
We know what the rules are. 11:52:32:00
And I would encourage you to follow those rules. 11:52:33:10
Thank you. 11:52:35:15
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you. 11:52:37:13
Anyone else that would like to speak? 11:52:38:12
Council members, what's your pleasure? 11:52:40:06
>> Joe Robinson, Tampa. 11:52:46:13
I'm sorry, I've been called to come down here. 11:52:49:04
Whew. 11:52:53:15
I've, I've been in historic preservation with some of the people 11:52:54:03
in this room for over 30 some years. 11:52:58:09
I've owned historical houses, sold them and I still Scaglione 11:53:01:06
house. 11:53:08:27
The cigar factories. 11:53:13:15
Cuesta-Rey, I used to look at Cuesta-Rey and it used to sit 11:53:14:25
there where Ms. Baker's parking lot. 11:53:18:24
Great Cuesta-Rey Cigar Factory building. 11:53:22:09

It turned into a rubber ball manufacturing something years ago, 11:53:25:09
it's gone. 11:53:29:18
The problem here is property rights. 11:53:30:12
The issue is the historic fabric. 11:53:34:03
The solution is City Council's discretion. 11:53:38:24
It comes down to City Council's discretion as to what you want 11:53:42:09
to do. 11:53:45:21
If you want to make them all in the category, what's going to 11:53:46:27
happen? 11:53:53:07
Somebody might file a lawsuit. 11:53:54:06
If you don't do it, you know that nothing is going to happen. 11:53:55:24
The problem is this, if you make all of them meet the criteria, 11:54:00:24
code enforcement can go out, cite it, and now even though they 11:54:06:28
are telling you, they don't have to do anything if we make it a 11:54:12:18
designated building, they don't have to do anything, they are 11:54:15:21
right. 11:54:19:00
But when code enforcement go out there and eventually they are 11:54:19:12
going to go out there and write the buildings out, then you are 11:54:22:00
going to start this cycle. 11:54:27:03
When they get ready to go make the repairs, make ready to get it 11:54:28:06
to comply with the city's codes, they'll have to comply with 11:54:32:12
this new criteria, this historical preservation criteria which 11:54:35:21
they may not be having to comply with now. 11:54:39:00
So that's the issue is code enforcement will trigger the issue, 11:54:42:09
not us a it only wants to add an addition on or to add something 11:54:48:18

there. 11:54:52:27
We need to save our cigar factories. 11:54:53:06
We need to find more money for our cigar factories. 11:54:57:00
I'm a historical preservationist. 11:54:59:28
Linda, you know that. 11:55:02:00
Stephanie Ferrell, you know that. 11:55:03:06
God bless Jan Abram. 11:55:06:21
Pioneers. 11:55:09:07
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: You are just historically preserved. 11:55:09:22
>> Yeah, but I'm 51 years old. 11:55:12:24
Cut this short, I'm just saying, can't we all just get along 11:55:14:27
here? 11:55:18:16
This one is a tough one. 11:55:19:04
I hate to see it go that way. 11:55:21:06
I'd say if you have to, err on the side of safety. 11:55:23:22
You can always undesignate something but it's hard to designate 11:55:27:24
something. 11:55:31:10
If so -- so if you designate them all, that's easy to do. 11:55:31:19
If you don't designate them all, there's going to be a problem. 11:55:35:21
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Joe, you were 14 years old when you started 11:55:38:24
historic preservation. 11:55:41:16
>> Yes, I used to go around paint and scrape houses. 11:55:42:12
We had 40 some houses. 11:55:46:07
You can ask anybody here. 11:55:49:03
[ APPLAUSE ] 11:55:55:28

I've been there, done that. 11:55:56:21
They know that. 11:55:58:12
Still have a few historic structures. 11:55:59:19
Whatever left from code enforcement. 11:56:01:15
But I'm just saying, though, there's got to be a way that 11:56:02:21
everybody can walk away from this thing happy. 11:56:05:21
It's got to be. 11:56:08:00
And I understand it's a money issue. 11:56:08:24
It's a property rights issue. 11:56:10:25
But we need to come together. 11:56:12:12
I'm sorry for coming down here because I was on my walk. 11:56:14:03
I do a walk about 6:30 in the morning. 11:56:17:04
So I want to thank you for letting me speak. 11:56:20:00
>>ROSE FERLITA: I need to make a comment. 11:56:21:25
I just wonder, you have all the gear for gators, did you have 11:56:24:25
the same thing at home in case Florida state had won? 11:56:29:01
>> No. 11:56:32:12
Let me explain it to you. 11:56:33:03
I'm wearing this in protest because I went to the University of 11:56:35:10
Iowa. 11:56:37:24
So I'm from Iowa. 11:56:38:09
I'm just wearing this to fake the gators out. 11:56:39:16
>>ROSE FERLITA: I'll ask my question after you. 11:56:44:25
>> Harry hedges, Tampa, 5 -- as many of you know, I've done 11:56:51:18
several historic properties in the downtown area. 11:56:59:09

Working on one now. 11:57:02:03
One of the things that has become frustrating over the years, I 11:57:03:06
know I personally have delivered the federal guidelines for 11:57:07:15
mothballing properties to our code enforcement, discuss this 11:57:11:12
option. 11:57:17:00
As a property owner, I feel that when the private sector fails 11:57:20:09
in taking responsibility for their properties, unfortunately, 11:57:26:18
then we have to look at city government, state government, 11:57:30:12
whatever, to take charge. 11:57:34:15
It's their responsibility. 11:57:36:16
They have failed to maintain the property, and it hurts all of 11:57:38:12
us. 11:57:43:09
It hurts neighbors I don't care how far away. 11:57:43:18
And it stops the city from collecting the taxes they should 11:57:46:04
collect. 11:57:51:27
Because it's a deterrent to people working in a community and in 11:57:52:06
a neighborhood. 11:57:55:24
You have the power, you have the ability, the capacity. 11:57:57:12
We have watched many buildings -- and I don't need to go through 11:58:02:00
the MAAS brothers era, no reason for it to get in that shape. 11:58:06:03
That is a conscious decision. 11:58:11:19
When we do a playground, it's a conscious decision. 11:58:13:15
When we help affordable housing, it's a conscious decision. 11:58:17:03
When we allow properties to deteriorate and devalue our 11:58:22:18
community, it's a conscious decision. 11:58:27:21

I just think that we have a beautiful city here. 11:58:31:12
We have a lot of structures that deserve a commitment from our 11:58:34:12
community to say, we're going to stop. 11:58:39:03
We're not going to let it continue to rot. 11:58:42:04
Thank you. 11:58:44:21
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you. 11:58:44:27
Next. 11:58:46:16
>> Hello. 11:58:52:16
Suzanne prayer. 11:58:53:06
I live at 5306 North Suwannee Avenue in old Seminole Heights. 11:58:54:12
I live in a historic district. 11:58:59:13
I live in a historic district by choice. 11:59:01:18
I came here from Los Angeles where I got my house designated. 11:59:03:24
It was not a historic structure. 11:59:08:01
I spent several thousand dollars doing research to make sure 11:59:10:27
that my house when I died would not die with me. 11:59:15:12
So it's now historic, register number 738 in Los Angeles. 11:59:20:15
Yes, it cost me money. 11:59:25:00
Living society we have rights, we have privileges and we have 11:59:29:24
responsibilities. 11:59:33:24
And I think that we have a responsibility to this community to 11:59:35:03
maintain these buildings and to have them designated so that our 11:59:39:03
children have them, our grandchildren have them so that Tampa's 11:59:43:06
face remains unchanged. 11:59:47:19
Thank you. 11:59:51:24

>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you. 11:59:51:27
Ms. Ferlita, did you want to speak now or what? 11:59:54:28
>>MARTIN SHELBY: I just want to bring to Council's attention per 11:59:59:27
its rules, it is at the noon hour. 12:00:02:18
Ultimately at some point in time, soon, unless Council waives 12:00:06:24
the rules, there is a call of the rules for a recess. 12:00:10:18
>>GWEN MILLER: We're going to finish this and do committee 12:00:12:25
reports, too -- let's make a motion that we continue to finish 12:00:18:00
committee reports and finish this because the -- 12:00:23:21
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to vote that we move to waive 12:00:27:00
the rules for this item. 12:00:28:28
>>GWEN MILLER: And committee reports. 12:00:32:13
They need to get into the clerk's office. 12:00:33:24
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let's take two separate votes. 12:00:36:28
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I move we waive the rules to finish this 12:00:38:24
item. 12:00:41:21
>>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second. 12:00:42:00
All in favor, aye. 12:00:42:28
[ MOTION CARRIED ] 12:00:43:24
>>MARY ALVAREZ: I would like to hear from Mr. Grandoff. 12:00:50:18
He's been sitting in the back of the room just taking everything 12:00:53:18
in. 12:00:56:16
And I want to hear from him. 12:00:56:25
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: He's not the petitioner. 12:01:01:09
The city is the petitioner. 12:01:03:06

>>MARY ALVAREZ: We want to hear from him. 12:01:07:13
There has been a lot said today. 12:01:10:18
>>MARTIN SHELBY: There was a vote. 12:01:13:19
A vote requires a recess. 12:01:17:10
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. White voted no. 12:01:21:15
He has the ability under our rules to cause us to go to lunch 12:01:23:06
and he just did. 12:01:26:25
So I think that's the rule. 12:01:28:12
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: If there's a vote -- 12:01:33:27
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Under our rule that you guys passed, it has 12:01:35:21
to be unanimous. 12:01:39:07
He didn't vote for it. 12:01:42:13
>>GWEN MILLER: The Council will go into recess until 1:30. 12:01:48:25
(Lunch recess)




TAMPA CITY COUNCIL
December 8, 2005
1:30 p.m. Regular Council Meeting

DISCLAIMER:
The following represents an unedited version of realtime
captioning which should neither be relied upon for complete
accuracy nor used as a verbatim transcript.
The original of this transcript was produced in all capital
letters and any variation thereto may be a result of third party
edits and software compatibility issues.
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the proceedings
may need to hire a court reporter.

>>GWEN MILLER: Tampa City Council is called back to order.
Roll call.
We are still on the continuation of the cigar factories. 13:33:07:04
We were at the point of Mr. Grandoff. 13:33:17:06
Where is he? 13:33:19:21
>> I was responding to Mrs. Alvarez' question. 13:33:27:01
She had questions for me. 13:33:29:10
>>MARY ALVAREZ: I want you to make comments. 13:33:30:07
>> Yes. 13:33:34:19
The resolution before you this afternoon are the five remaining 13:33:39:00
factories of the original 15. 13:33:43:18
And my clients have consistently maintained their position for 13:33:45:25
the last two years with the administration and with you that 13:33:51:04
they wish to be excluded from this process. 13:33:53:21
I have pulled the historic preservation ordinance which 13:34:00:09
coincidentally is going to be considered by the Planning 13:34:04:18

Commission this evening. 13:34:07:18
There are several amendments -- Monday evening, excuse me. 13:34:08:12
Monday evening. 13:34:12:09
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm going to ask that it be continued. 13:34:13:12
>> The very ordinance. So when we were last talking before the 13:34:15:25
lunch break, we were talking about the economic hardship issue. 13:34:18:18
And the code says that the owner has the option to initiate an 13:34:24:03
economic feasibility determination. 13:34:36:21
In my opinion, if you have the option to initiate that 13:34:39:09
determination, you have the option not to initiate that 13:34:41:01
determination. 13:34:44:18
And all of my meetings with the administration and with you all 13:34:45:22
and before the HPC back in February, I said, we do not want to 13:34:48:27
go through that process. 13:34:53:21
We're asking you to exercise a legislative prerogative not to 13:34:55:03
put us through that process. 13:35:00:03
We all derive our power from the consent of the government. 13:35:02:18
My client does not want to consent to this process. 13:35:05:21
Let's explain how this process operates. 13:35:09:12
With the revised ordinance that's going to the Planning 13:35:11:25
Commission on Monday. 13:35:14:09
Subsection "B" allows you to initiate this process if the City 13:35:15:21
Council designates the properties, you may initiate a process. 13:35:22:07
Shall include an affidavit from the property owner that includes 13:35:27:18
at a minimum the following. 13:35:30:04

The amount paid for the property, the date of purchase and the 13:35:32:06
property from whom purchased, including a description of the 13:35:35:15
relationship, if any, between the owner of record or applicant 13:35:38:15
and the person for whom the property was purchased and any terms 13:35:41:09
existing, financing between the buyer and the seller. 13:35:44:15
Two, the assessed value of the land and improvements thereon 13:35:47:18
according to two most recent tax assessments. 13:35:51:19
Three, real estate bills for the past three years. 13:35:54:12
Four, all appraisals of the property in possession of the owner 13:35:57:01
or its agents, whether performed for the owner or for third 13:36:00:13
parties including, for example, appraisals by the owner, its 13:36:05:09
lender or prospective purchaser from the owner. 13:36:08:24
This is confidential information. 13:36:11:16
Think about your property and what you have in your files on 13:36:13:27
your property, on your home. 13:36:16:00
Five, estimated market value of the property in its current 13:36:19:12
condition. 13:36:22:28
After completion of the proposed alteration or demolition and 13:36:23:19
after renovation of the existing property for continued use. 13:36:27:01
Six, any offers received to purchase or lease the property 13:36:30:12
within the prior three years and any listing of the property for 13:36:36:12
sale or lease made within the prior three years including any 13:36:41:06
listing agreements or times. 13:36:46:03
Number seven, estimates from a licensed architect or contractor 13:36:48:24
as appropriate of the cost of demolition, relocation, removal, 13:36:53:09

rehabilitation or restoration of the property including any 13:36:58:13
analysis obtained within the previous three years. 13:37:01:27
Eight, itemize cost and expense of all maintenance and 13:37:06:09
improvements -- may I continue, please? 13:37:09:21
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Yes, what else do you have for us? 13:37:13:09
>> This is the process that my client is asking to be left out 13:37:15:21
of. 13:37:18:13
>>GWEN MILLER: How much longer? 13:37:19:07
>> Give me three-minutes. 13:37:20:24
This is the easy process that was described this morning by the 13:37:25:12
folks that spoke before me. 13:37:28:15
This is the easy process. 13:37:29:27
I want you to understand what this involves. 13:37:31:00
This isn't filling out one form and throwing it on the table 13:37:33:07
saying, oh, we're out, because it's economically difficult. 13:37:36:04
>>GWEN MILLER: The Council will have to approve three-minutes. 13:37:39:24
We have a motion and second. 13:37:42:28
All in favor of the motion, aye. 13:37:44:00
[ MOTION CARRIED ] 13:37:45:06
>> Number nine, all reports relating to the economic feasibility 13:37:46:00
of restoring or rehabilitating the property obtained within the 13:37:50:03
previous three years including market studies and evaluation of 13:37:53:00
alternative adaptive reuses of the property. 13:37:55:18
Number ten, there are 14 of these. 13:37:58:06
Number 10, a report from a licensed engineer or architect -- 13:38:00:12

listen to this, with experience in rehabilitation of historic 13:38:05:09
properties as to the structural soundness of the structure and 13:38:09:24
sustainability and suitability for rehabilitation. 13:38:13:09
That's a finite amount of engineers and architects. 13:38:15:21
You have to find them and pay them. 13:38:18:21
11, an appraisal by a qualified professional expert setting 13:38:20:24
forth the current fair market of the property as currently 13:38:24:27
zoned, both undesignated and designated. 13:38:27:16
12, remaining balance on any mortgage or other finances secured 13:38:30:00
by the property and annual debt service if any for the previous 13:38:35:18
three years. 13:38:38:13
13, form of ownership and operation of the property. 13:38:39:06
15 -- 14, any other information. 13:38:42:21
That's in the government's discretion, any other information 13:38:48:15
including the adjusted basis of the property, which would assist 13:38:52:07
in making a determination as to whether the property currently 13:38:55:03
yields or may yield a reasonable return to the owners. 13:38:58:16
For instance, a pro forma financial analysis for income 13:39:02:06
producing property. 13:39:05:09
Now, remember, four of my clients are operating companies. 13:39:06:12
Annual gross income from the property for the previous three 13:39:10:00
years. 13:39:12:28
Itemized operate maintenance expenses for previous three years. 13:39:13:06
Annual cash flow before and after debt service if any for the 13:39:19:12
previous three years. 13:39:22:13

It also says if we need more information, we can ask for it. 13:39:24:21
You never get out of this process. 13:39:28:09
Five people do not have an objection with being in the process. 13:39:32:13
That's the resolution on you this morning. 13:39:36:06
Ten of them do not want to bear this burden. 13:39:38:04
All I'm asking you is don't force my clients to go through this 13:39:40:15
14-step process when we're going to get right back to this 13:39:44:06
podium and say, it isn't justified, please let us out. 13:39:47:24
One other thing I want to add, remember when I mentioned on the 13:39:51:12
17th there is an automatic stay on the demolition of any 13:39:54:07
structure in the city that is over 50 years old. 13:39:59:22
So you have the protection of the demolition issue because if a 13:40:03:03
demo permit was applied for, the HPC staff will be notified and 13:40:06:15
they can start an emergency designation. 13:40:11:03
I ask you, does it make any sense when you derive your ability 13:40:14:16
to govern from the government and they are saying you don't have 13:40:20:01
a consent to do this, we don't want to be burdened with this. 13:40:24:25
It's a very simple request. 13:40:28:21
They just want to be left alone as you would, as I'm sure many 13:40:29:25
of the folks in this audience would like to be left alone. 13:40:33:09
Thank you very much. 13:40:36:07
>>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder. 13:40:37:18
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Smith, I'm glad that we have Mr. Smith on 13:40:38:24
board for many reasons, but especially because he has a unique 13:40:44:19
history in real estate law. 13:40:49:13

And that's what this was all about. 13:40:51:18
The provision that Mr. Grandoff read to us, in your opinion, is 13:40:54:06
it defensible? 13:41:00:06
I mean, today? 13:41:02:15
It's already on the books. 13:41:03:09
It's been on the books a long time. 13:41:04:12
>> Actually, it's not. 13:41:06:16
The provisions he was reading from were proposed ordinance that 13:41:08:03
you have previously transmitted to the Planning Commission for 13:41:10:25
review. 13:41:14:00
It hasn't even received Planning Commission review yet. 13:41:14:12
That's scheduled, as I understand, for December 12th, and I've 13:41:17:21
been advised by one Council member, there's going to be a 13:41:21:15
request that you reconsider some of those provisions and 13:41:23:27
consider pulling it back. 13:41:26:06
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: right now that calls for the -- 13:41:28:13
>> The provision right now is in subpart "D" that talks about 13:41:32:03
economic feasibility. 13:41:36:06
It does not have the criteria he articulated. 13:41:37:13
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay. 13:41:39:21
So what criteria is there? 13:41:40:09
Is there some criteria there? 13:41:42:28
>> Actually, we'll defer to the experts in that area. 13:41:45:03
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm sorry for the -- I misunderstood what 13:41:49:16
Mr. Grandoff was reading from. 13:41:53:09

>> The criteria for an economic feasibility study is found in 13:41:55:16
section 27-231. 13:41:58:27
It is the section that I've gone over a few times with you 13:42:07:06
before. 13:42:09:22
As it's currently on the books, the application requires -- 13:42:10:21
there's a whole laundry list of stuff. 13:42:14:01
I think he's correct. 13:42:16:09
There are 14 items they have to submit. 13:42:17:21
I believe the only change from what is currently on the books 13:42:19:28
and what is being proposed is -- currently on the book it's a 13:42:22:27
previous two years and they are proposing three years of data. 13:42:29:15
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay. 13:42:34:00
So right now, if we choose to regulate all 15 of the cigar 13:42:34:15
factories, and it's just regulation. 13:42:44:24
We're not taking the property, right? 13:42:46:12
We're regulating their property. 13:42:48:07
>> That's correct. 13:42:50:15
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: If we choose to regulate all 15 properties, 13:42:51:07
then all 15 of them come in under the existing law. 13:42:53:27
Then if they choose to try and not be so regulated, they would 13:42:58:18
opt -- I don't want to use that word -- they would choose to 13:43:06:16
attempt to go into that process. 13:43:11:10
What's it called? 13:43:14:12
The financial -- 13:43:15:03
>> Economic feasibility study. 13:43:16:10

Actually, they need to do that at the front end. 13:43:18:06
Once it's been designated there's no point in doing an economic 13:43:20:18
feasibility. 13:43:23:21
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Go into the process, and they would go into 13:43:24:06
the economic feasibility study, et cetera, kind of putting 13:43:31:03
themselves in abeyance until that study is done. 13:43:35:06
But in doing that, they are looking for special relief, right? 13:43:38:15
>> That's correct. 13:43:42:12
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: For their unique property and their unique 13:43:43:03
situation. 13:43:46:04
So in return for the special relief, what we do is we ask them 13:43:46:15
for a lot of information. 13:43:49:24
In other words, if you want to be treated specially because you 13:43:51:27
have some unique financial situations, financial considerations, 13:43:54:15
then we need to find out all this information about your unique 13:43:57:27
situation in order to be able to answer the question. 13:44:02:25
And then I assume it comes back to Council, is that correct? 13:44:05:18
>> It does come back to Council. 13:44:09:12
It actually goes to the historic preservation commission first. 13:44:10:21
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: A recommendation. 13:44:14:09
>> And they take a look at all the data, and then they make a 13:44:15:25
recommendation. 13:44:19:12
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Then it comes back to Council so we can 13:44:19:18
decide, is your situation unique and special that we want to 13:44:22:01
give you this special relief? 13:44:24:12

I think that in light of that, it's appropriate for all that 13:44:27:10
information to be gathered because otherwise, you would be 13:44:30:03
shooting in the dark. 13:44:32:15
You wouldn't have any basis for evaluating whether or not they 13:44:33:09
deserve that financial relief. 13:44:36:06
And so, therefore, yes, it's a big laundry list, and it seems 13:44:39:09
impositional, but when you're asking for special favors from the 13:44:44:15
administration or from Council or from the court or whatever, 13:44:48:01
you know, if you're in a court case, and there's discovery going 13:44:51:10
on, you very often have to produce all that same type of 13:44:55:16
information. 13:44:58:24
That's exactly what I'm hearing here. 13:44:59:03
So that's my point. 13:45:01:21
>> If I could also just add something hopefully to clarify. 13:45:06:12
Today, what you're deciding is simply whether to transmit. 13:45:09:27
You are not determining and designating this as a landmark. 13:45:12:21
This is just to initiate the process. 13:45:16:22
It will come back before you after the Planning Commission says 13:45:18:18
what it has to say and after the HPC says what it has to say. 13:45:22:21
And as I read this provision, it says a land owner shall be 13:45:26:19
entitled to initiate an economic feasibility determination at 13:45:30:04
any time prior to or at the City Council hearing as provided for 13:45:33:21
in this division for a designation of a landmark. 13:45:37:09
So it can occur even up until the time it goes back before you 13:45:40:22
for designation. 13:45:45:28

So they have plenty of opportunity, and I think what the 13:45:47:03
ordinance currently reads, is it currently establishes a process 13:45:50:13
by which the evidence is submitted to you. 13:45:53:09
And I think that's what Mr. Dingfelder is addressing himself to. 13:45:58:12
If we don't follow the process with evidence, we may have issues 13:46:01:27
with respect to reliability. 13:46:04:16
Anything do you in this regard would have to be substantial 13:46:06:12
competent evidence because this is applying to specific pieces 13:46:08:27
of property. 13:46:12:12
It's quasi-judicial. 13:46:13:09
I hope that clarifies it. 13:46:15:03
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Just a question. 13:46:22:06
What Mr. Grandoff was reading were proposals to go to the 13:46:23:10
Planning Commission, but with one little change. 13:46:27:06
So why is everything going to the Planning Commission? 13:46:29:06
>> No. 13:46:33:04
He was reading the criteria that are applied, the information 13:46:33:16
that must be supplied when you seek an economic hardship 13:46:37:06
determination, economic feasibility. 13:46:40:09
>>MARY ALVAREZ: What is going to the Planning Commission then? 13:46:42:07
>> All that goes to the Planning Commission right now is a 13:46:44:12
transmittal from this Council saying that we should initiate the 13:46:46:21
process. 13:46:50:06
Initiate the process. 13:46:51:07
Not their historic, but we should initiate the process and then 13:46:51:28

go through that process to determine whether they are historic 13:46:55:12
and should be historic. 13:46:59:06
>>ROSE FERLITA: Mr. Smith, help me, too, if you would. 13:47:05:18
We have two scenarios here today. 13:47:08:13
If we don't move to initiate this designation, then we either 13:47:10:12
grant Mr. Grandoff on behalf of his client what he wants or not. 13:47:17:07
Forget about the economic feasibility process, right? 13:47:21:19
That's the first thing. 13:47:24:06
If we say, no, we don't want to initiate this, we just want to 13:47:25:06
vote it up or down today, and whoever wants to opt out, opts 13:47:28:00
out. 13:47:31:10
>> The decision you should make today, if you're voting it 13:47:32:00
literally out, is to determine that it does not even meet prima 13:47:35:01
facie the criteria for historic designation. 13:47:39:03
What you're not making an economic feasibility determination 13:47:41:21
because no data has been provided to you in that regard. 13:47:45:06
>>ROSE FERLITA: What I'm saying, if today his side is the 13:47:47:18
prevailing side, then it doesn't warrant any kind of an economic 13:47:52:15
hardship process that he read just now. 13:47:57:00
If we, instead, decide to initiate this process today, it goes 13:48:00:25
to the Planning Commission, that's not the last step. 13:48:04:13
It comes back to us. 13:48:06:24
And in the event that he or anybody representing any of his 13:48:07:21
clients want to come back and show a hardship, they have to go 13:48:10:18
through that process. 13:48:13:06

That's the only way that he can get back to where he would be 13:48:13:25
today were it voted down in terms of the initiation process. 13:48:16:24
>> If you initiate it and send it, he will still have an 13:48:20:06
opportunity to establish economic hardship. 13:48:23:21
I think that's your question. 13:48:24:28
If he wins today, if you say we're not going to transmit these 13:48:26:00
ten, it's my understanding from talking with Ms. O'Dowd who 13:48:30:12
handled this previously that the instances in which we 13:48:34:03
literally, quote, allowed people to opt out, we didn't really 13:48:36:06
allow them to opt out. 13:48:39:27
What we did is deferred them. 13:48:41:00
So, for example, I think that's the case with Peter Claver. 13:48:42:25
They weren't really opted out. 13:48:46:21
They were considered to be premature because there was 13:48:48:06
continuing discussions with those property owners. 13:48:50:24
So I think historically what you have done, you have deferred or 13:48:52:15
delayed the transmittal of several properties to allow 13:48:56:09
additional discussions to occur. 13:49:00:00
That could be something you could do today with respect to these 13:49:01:09
properties, but I don't think you will literally opt them out 13:49:04:16
without at least showing that they meet the criteria of the 13:49:10:25
ordinance which is economic infeasibility. 13:49:11:12
>>ROSE FERLITA: This is my dilemma, and I don't think there's 13:49:14:13
anything I should worry about being secretive here. 13:49:18:09
I came in and I professed last time Mr. Grandoff came in 13:49:21:09

representation of his clients, that I had a concern about 13:49:24:15
property rights. 13:49:27:03
Now, today, we talk about the historic fabric of the city, and I 13:49:28:12
understand that the factories are in a different situation as 13:49:33:18
would be perhaps a home or homes in an area. 13:49:36:16
So I've got that dilemma and if I go the way I initially thought 13:49:40:03
I would go, then it's done today in terms of not having them 13:49:48:03
bear the hardship of economic feasibility. 13:49:51:28
But if I don't and I go along with perhaps what would be the 13:49:54:00
majority of this Council in terms of just simply initiating, not 13:49:57:18
completely, but initiated, then there's still a second 13:50:01:22
opportunity for Mr. Grandoff to come back. 13:50:04:09
Except for the fact that since we talked about a no-opt 13:50:07:00
provision in our code, then he has burdened -- his clients are 13:50:11:22
burdened with the expense of going through that 15-step or 13:50:18:00
whatever step it is about showing the hardship and there's no 13:50:22:01
way to do both. 13:50:28:15
There's no way to initiate it and still alleviate him in some 13:50:29:06
regard. 13:50:32:07
>> Okay. 13:50:49:25
We have a difference of pen that I need to make -- of opinion 13:50:50:01
that I need to make sure we recount to you. 13:50:53:09
Morris and Cate O'Dowd were upstairs watching and they have much 13:50:55:21
longer experience with this than I have. 13:50:59:07
They are advising me that provision, subpart D that I read to 13:51:01:03

you from talks about the City Council hearing as provide for -- 13:51:04:16
their view is that is this hearing. 13:51:13:00
The request for an economic hardship determination would have to 13:51:14:21
be made no later than this hearing. 13:51:17:12
>>MARY ALVAREZ: That's right. 13:51:19:07
That's the way I read it. 13:51:20:21
>> If they don't request the economic hardship determination by 13:51:21:27
this hearing, then I guess the argument is they've waived it. 13:51:25:12
I would want to look at some of the case law in that regard. 13:51:29:01
If it's a constitutional right, which I think it is, I'm not 13:51:31:12
sure you can waive that. 13:51:34:18
>>ROSE FERLITA: Mr. Massey interrupted me, no offense, Morris. 13:51:36:00
That further confuses my process. 13:51:43:16
Right now, I was looking at the initiation of the designation to 13:51:46:00
give me more time to decide what the heck is the fair thing. 13:51:48:25
Now you guys have a difference of opinion professionally. 13:51:54:13
I'm not sure I want to go any further than continuing it. 13:51:59:00
That causes a bigger hardship for me. 13:52:04:06
Not an economic hardship, but a hardship for me in terms of 13:52:06:21
looking at the actual terms about where we are and what the 13:52:09:21
consequences are depending on what we initiate or don't initiate 13:52:12:22
today. 13:52:19:06
That's fine. 13:52:19:18
I think that's great. 13:52:20:06
Attorneys disagree and you talk about what the right opinion is. 13:52:21:03

In the meantime, we are waiting in the wing to determine -- 13:52:24:00
Ms. Johnson earlier talking about the no-opt provision. 13:52:29:16
Then the economic provision. 13:52:32:24
Mr. Grandoff talking about property rights. 13:52:35:19
Now you guys are saying you are differences of opinion. 13:52:37:21
I am ready to continue this. 13:52:40:06
And I apologize to people who have been part of this process, 13:52:41:18
but I want my decision to be fair. 13:52:44:27
And at this point, I don't know what my decision will be. 13:52:46:18
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This process has been going on for two years 13:52:55:07
which has given cigar factory owners a long time to make an 13:52:58:15
economic. 13:53:05:21
Frankly, I would like to continue this because the improvement 13:53:07:12
that I suggested, improving the administrative process and 13:53:09:16
improving the grants or loans available to cigar factory owners 13:53:13:27
I see as being a good thing in any case and something that we 13:53:19:19
need to pursue doing. 13:53:22:24
So I'd support continuing this, but working on the 13:53:24:00
administrative process and the money that's available to cigar 13:53:27:15
factory owners. 13:53:33:24
I would like to see all our cigar factories protected. 13:53:34:15
If you're not comfortable going ahead with that at this moment, 13:53:37:00
then I would support a continuance. 13:53:40:04
>>ROSE FERLITA: Let me respond to her since she's answering to 13:53:41:10
me. 13:53:44:15

I understand what you want and I'm not sure what I want. 13:53:46:07
I think we would be supporting continuances for different 13:53:52:06
reasons, but that's okay. 13:53:58:06
At least we both will be comfortable in the vote we cast. 13:53:59:27
Every time we brought up another issue, there's a disagreement 13:54:04:12
on the terms. 13:54:07:07
There's a disagreement on what the initiation yields. 13:54:08:03
So at this point I just don't know. 13:54:13:00
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: There's another way to skin this cat. 13:54:21:16
Because I want to get it off the table and move on. 13:54:23:27
And I think some others do as well. 13:54:29:00
I would like to send it over to the Planning Commission and have 13:54:31:06
them do whatever they do and then have it come back for another 13:54:33:04
hearing. 13:54:36:06
But the way I read paren D-1 under economic feasibility 13:54:36:13
determination for designation, it says that the land owner shall 13:54:40:24
be entitled to initiate an economic feasibility determination 13:54:43:18
anytime prior to or at the City Council hearing. 13:54:46:28
There's a confusion as to which hearing, perhaps that sort of 13:54:50:15
thing. 13:54:53:19
We can resolve that very quickly. 13:54:54:01
What we can do is, okay, we accept today the fact that 10 folks, 13:54:55:12
10 owners have now initiated that process. 13:55:05:06
We can accept their comments to our Council and say they've 13:55:07:04
opted for that determination. 13:55:11:00

Now, what do they have to do next? 13:55:14:27
According to D-1, it says they have to get into that process 13:55:17:00
within the next 60 days by formally filing an application. 13:55:19:21
It says that at the bottom of the page. 13:55:23:12
The land owner shall subsequently file determination application 13:55:25:09
within 60 days after the city clerk receives such an election. 13:55:28:27
So I think we could say those ten made the election today. 13:55:32:28
And if they want to pursue that election, they could do so 13:55:35:21
within the next 60 days in writing. 13:55:38:13
Then the process carries on. 13:55:47:00
In the Miami -- meantime, we can move for the 15 to be approved 13:55:48:21
today and then send it on to the Planning Commission. 13:55:52:15
And still give them the opportunity to go through the economic 13:55:59:09
feasibility process. 13:56:02:01
>>ROSE FERLITA: Mr. Dingfelder in your haste to move it on and 13:56:07:19
get it done, you just lost my support. 13:56:10:21
Mr. Grandoff and his clients didn't come in thinking they were 13:56:13:24
going to deal with this. 13:56:16:12
In all fairness to both sides and I am just as torn as everybody 13:56:17:19
else, if we've waited this long to solve this and we can't wait 13:56:21:12
longer for us to have a better level of comfort, I'm not going 13:56:25:07
to support it. 13:56:28:25
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't want to lose your support. 13:56:32:24
>>ROSE FERLITA: Well, you just lost it. 13:56:35:07
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: There's an opportunity if we want to get it 13:56:36:27

off the table today, we can do it. 13:56:38:21
>>ROSE FERLITA: Two years of investment, wait a little longer, 13:56:41:00
fine. 13:56:43:09
Same thing here. 13:56:43:27
I came in clearly feeling that I was going to say property 13:56:44:22
rights trumps the other thing. 13:56:47:27
Some of the other people had some good arguments. 13:56:51:03
That leaves me in a situation where I'm not sure. 13:56:53:21
If we continue it and we have more time, I'm not sure if we'll 13:56:56:06
be on the same side. 13:56:59:25
I can tell you we won't be on the same side if you want to move 13:57:01:21
it today. 13:57:04:15
That's up to the majority of Council. 13:57:05:07
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: There's no motion made yet. 13:57:08:15
We didn't close the public hearing. 13:57:11:00
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Let's ask the head of the Florida trust. 13:57:24:24
>>MARY ALVAREZ: When you have a licensed architects and licensed 13:57:28:06
engineers, they don't come cheap. 13:57:31:15
Come on Becky. 13:57:37:15
>> Becky Clark. 13:57:38:18
There has been that action initiated, the Lykes Brothers did 13:57:39:15
initiate the economic hardship option. 13:57:43:21
>>MARY ALVAREZ: What happened? 13:57:46:16
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Tore the building down. 13:57:48:18
>>MARY ALVAREZ: That's right. 13:57:50:09

Who got sued? 13:57:51:04
>> Well, that's a whole 'nother issue. 13:57:53:00
But we had the right -- 13:57:55:03
>>GWEN MILLER: How much did the feasibility study cost? 13:57:57:12
>> The information did upheld that there was -- 13:57:59:21
>>GWEN MILLER: How much did it cost? 13:58:03:06
>> I don't know. 13:58:05:01
I didn't pay their bills. 13:58:05:10
But there has been -- the question was, has it ever been done 13:58:06:12
and yes, it has. 13:58:10:25
>>MARTIN SHELBY: I just wanted to ask Council before you close 13:58:12:00
the public hearing, because this is a quasi-judicial just to the 13:58:15:07
matter of receiving and filing all documents, but we can do that 13:58:19:13
before the. 13:58:26:01
>>ROSE FERLITA: I would like to ask something. 13:58:28:03
What do you think about that cost issue? 13:58:32:15
>> My name is Roger GRUNKER. 13:58:34:06
I'm an architect and chair the barrio. 13:58:38:25
I completed for a residence, economic study to prove economic 13:58:42:09
feasibility or nonfeasibility with the restoration of the 13:58:50:06
residents and went before the A.R.C. and won getting permission 13:58:56:07
to demolish the house. 13:59:02:16
And I think that cost about 3,000. 13:59:04:15
Now, this was -- in the whole scheme of the value of the 13:59:10:09
property and the house, it was just a cost of doing business. 13:59:17:07

>>ROSE FERLITA: For all those steps he just talked about, 3,000? 13:59:21:13
>> It was for a house, yes, ma'am. 13:59:24:18
>>ROSE FERLITA: And what would you think in your professional 13:59:26:25
estimation bringing the same thing to that scale of the project, 13:59:28:27
what do you think that would cost? 13:59:32:22
May be a fair question -- 13:59:36:03
>> Maybe 10,000. 13:59:37:16
Not having done it, I can't say. 13:59:39:27
But I can say that on record we did apply to demolish a 13:59:42:01
contributing structure, to do a complete study costs about 13:59:48:15
$3,000. 13:59:54:01
We won the permission from the support from the A.R.C. to 13:59:55:03
demolish the contributing structure based on that document. 14:00:00:00
We turned around then later the property was sold, and now we're 14:00:06:24
restoring the house. 14:00:10:06
>>GWEN MILLER: What is the pleasure of Council? 14:00:15:04
We need to move on. 14:00:17:00
We need to decide which direction we're going. 14:00:18:12
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to make a motion. 14:00:20:16
>> Before you make a motion, let me clarify our legal advice to 14:00:23:12
you so you're at least getting clarity in that regard. 14:00:26:09
As was pointed out to me, the other provision in the code that 14:00:29:15
makes it clear that this is the hearing at which they must make 14:00:32:28
the determination whether to request an economic determination, 14:00:35:15
there is on subpart 27-231 C 1-D, it says the owner has the 14:00:41:06

option to abate the designation process for a landmark or 14:00:50:00
landmark site pending the HPC's determination of the economic 14:00:54:28
feasibility of preservation pursuant to this division by 14:00:58:09
exercising that option at or before the City Council initiation 14:01:01:13
of designation public hearing. 14:01:05:16
That's this. 14:01:07:12
This is the initiation of designation. 14:01:08:00
So they must make that option prior to this hearing being 14:01:11:01
completed. 14:01:16:01
So if they are going to opt and request an economic 14:01:16:21
determination as to economic feasibility, it must happen on or 14:01:20:16
before the completion of this hearing. 14:01:24:18
I stand corrected that it must happen today if you're going to 14:01:25:25
act today. 14:01:28:24
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Madam Chairman, I just saw Mr. Jammal come in, 14:01:31:22
and he's a hands-on cigar factory owner restorer. 14:01:35:03
So I would like to hear from Mr. Jammal and tell us what he 14:01:43:01
thinks. 14:01:46:09
Come on, nick. 14:01:49:27
Nick, I'm asking you up here to tell us what your process has 14:02:01:15
been restoring your Morgan cigar factory. 14:02:05:27
I knew you wanted it designated. 14:02:10:15
I want you to tell us, tell the public how you felt about it. 14:02:12:27
>> I would like to get sworn in first. 14:02:16:03
>>MARY ALVAREZ: That's good. 14:02:18:06

(Oath administered by the clerk). 14:02:20:15
>> I'm Nicholas Jammal. 14:02:28:27
I purchased the cigar factory building about a year and a half 14:02:33:21
from the City of Tampa on Howard Ms. Alvarez was talking about. 14:02:36:15
I really enjoyed the historic preservation part of this project, 14:02:45:13
and I think it's really wonderful for me, for Tampa, for 14:02:49:18
historic cigar factories in general. 14:02:55:00
My experience with the city or with the administrator that was 14:02:59:27
handling the Architectural Review Commission part of it has been 14:03:07:04
really an unpleasant experience, and it has been a delaying 14:03:11:09
process, and it has been a nonfunctional and impractical 14:03:18:15
process. 14:03:25:24
That's the part that I don't like, and that's the part that I 14:03:26:12
feel needs to be worked on and improved, but as far as landmark 14:03:29:21
designation, I mean, I am all for it, and I am supportive of it. 14:03:39:01
And I also feel that it is economically feasible to pursue 14:03:43:15
historic preservation project such as this that I'm working on. 14:03:50:06
We've made a lot of progress. 14:03:55:24
We've been able to replicate a lot of the important historic 14:03:58:28
features in the building. 14:04:04:10
They are not hard to replicate. 14:04:05:07
They are easy to do, and they are more economically feasible 14:04:07:03
than using a substitute for those materials or a substitute 14:04:14:00
method of doing it. 14:04:19:19
So what would you like to know, Ms. Alvarez? 14:04:25:19

>>MARY ALVAREZ: Well, you've pretty much said it all. 14:04:28:21
Go ahead, Kevin. 14:04:31:28
>>KEVIN WHITE: Mr. Jammal, you were one, in this case there are 14:04:32:27
ten that don't and five that do, but in the case you wanted the 14:04:37:18
designation for your cigar factory. 14:04:41:22
If you didn't would you have wanted it to be forced on you if 14:04:44:24
you did not want it. 14:04:51:10
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's not a fair question? 14:04:54:00
If you don't want it, would you have wanted it. 14:04:56:10
>>KEVIN WHITE: If he had not applied, how would you feel if it 14:04:59:09
was mandated on. 14:05:02:18
>> I want to make a clarification first. 14:05:05:15
I knew that the city was going through the process of landmark 14:05:07:00
designation before I bought it. 14:05:10:28
I was for it to begin with. 14:05:12:15
But now you're saying if you weren't for it back then and you 14:05:14:12
bought it as it is and today we were historically landmarking 14:05:17:06
this building today, would you go for it. 14:05:21:01
I would say if the city would commit to me to make the change. 14:05:25:22
>>KEVIN WHITE: Going through the process you're going through 14:05:30:19
right now, would you be for it? 14:05:33:00
Knowing what you know now, would you be for it? 14:05:35:01
>> I would be for it contingent on some changes. 14:05:40:10
I would be for it contingent on the process. 14:05:42:27
We shouldn't have to be different from the state. 14:05:47:24

We shouldn't have to be different from the federal. 14:05:49:21
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: You're saying you would like to see some 14:05:52:12
administrative changes. 14:05:54:27
>> Yes. 14:05:55:28
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: But the regulation itself is not the problem. 14:05:56:10
>> Well, the regulation itself is all under the secretary of the 14:06:00:10
interior. 14:06:03:27
Now, if you've got an administrator that's interpreting the 14:06:04:16
regulation his way and his decision is based on a preconceived 14:06:08:06
notion of his own interpretation and nobody monitors or 14:06:15:07
supervises that effort, then you do have a problem with the 14:06:18:18
regulation. 14:06:21:27
>>ROSE FERLITA: Mr. Dingfelder and Mr. White, you are leading 14:06:25:16
the witness. 14:06:28:10
>> So I hope that I'm helpful in portraying my honest 14:06:32:09
experience. 14:06:40:06
I would love to see all the buildings in Tampa that are cigar 14:06:42:12
factory buildings rehabilitated the way they need to be. 14:06:47:03
But I also think that the regulatory part of the city has to 14:06:53:00
also be mutually cooperative to come up with a practical 14:06:58:27
solution for several things and not just one general statement 14:07:06:24
that apprise to the -- applies to the secretary of the interior. 14:07:09:16
>>GWEN MILLER: All right, Council. 14:07:16:09
We need to move on. 14:07:17:13
We've been on this long enough. 14:07:18:13

>> Clarify one thing. 14:07:21:03
Mr. Smith and I -- just on this process, I advised my client how 14:07:21:27
this process operated. 14:07:27:01
And we made our position very cloud and clear at the HPC 14:07:30:03
process. 14:07:34:12
And I told my client, the way that you can stay out of this 14:07:35:00
economic hardship process, this 14-point process, is you've got 14:07:37:24
to persuade your City Council people to exclude you from the 14:07:42:09
process. 14:07:46:28
You don't have to put them in the process. 14:07:47:04
The motion on the 17th said we'll continue for two weeks with 14:07:50:24
the intent that legal Council draft an ordinance with whatever 14:07:54:24
numbers of cigar factories remain, and we go from there. 14:07:57:28
We are at the precipice of this process and my clients are just 14:08:01:12
asking you, don't make us cross that bridge. 14:08:05:15
It's not fair. 14:08:07:28
And that's where we are. 14:08:09:00
We know what the process says. 14:08:09:21
>>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Mr. Grandoff. 14:08:11:09
Dingfelder? 14:08:13:27
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Rose, I hear you loud and clear. 14:08:16:19
I think in light of what you said and in light of what Linda 14:08:18:27
said, I'm not thrilled that we have to keep dragging this on, 14:08:21:25
but I think we should go ahead and continue it to look at the 14:08:24:15
issues. 14:08:29:25

Ms. Saul-Sena indicated she wanted to look at. 14:08:30:15
I guess explore some of the legal issues and also give these 14:08:33:10
folks an opportunity to know that there's a good chance we're 14:08:37:06
coming back with all 15. 14:08:40:18
So they are going to be on notice that if they want to come in 14:08:42:13
for the economic hardship request, then the next time we come 14:08:46:12
back that would be the opportune time for them to do that. 14:08:49:21
>>ROSE FERLITA: I have to tell you, this is a roll of the dice. 14:08:53:28
I have a feeling if we don't go this way, it will be three and 14:08:55:27
three and we'll have a continuance anyway. 14:08:59:15
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's a motion to continue to a date that's 14:09:02:09
suggested by everybody else. 14:09:04:25
>>MARTIN SHELBY: What's the date, please? 14:09:06:18
Date and time. 14:09:08:00
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to speak and second it for discussion. 14:09:08:25
I'm concerned that the administration get going with the things 14:09:14:04
we want to see get going. 14:09:20:10
The things that Mr. Jammal addressed. 14:09:21:21
The administrative process be crisped up, be made user friendly, 14:09:23:18
that we have specific guidelines for cigar factories and that 14:09:27:15
maybe they are administered not by a board but by a staff in a 14:09:31:06
timely way. 14:09:34:28
Secondly that money be made available for cigar factory owners 14:09:35:25
specifically. 14:09:40:19
Because we've identified them as a specific class that deserves 14:09:41:04

particular attention because there's -- they are so much a part 14:09:44:21
of the city. 14:09:47:18
So I think the end of January. 14:09:48:00
But I also hate to keep dragging these people down here. 14:09:49:13
If we do this, I think we should do it at 1:30. 14:09:54:06
The first week in February at 1:30. 14:09:57:06
>>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second to continue it. 14:10:01:16
Another question on the motion? 14:10:04:00
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just to clarify the motion. 14:10:05:16
The motion is not the old motion of just moving forward with 5. 14:10:07:06
In my opinion, unless there's something else comes up, it very 14:10:12:16
well could be all 15. 14:10:18:03
Frankly, I think a new notice letter needs to go to all 15 to 14:10:19:12
tell them that's Council's intent and that if they want to apply 14:10:22:16
for economic hardship whatever that they need to do it on that 14:10:26:00
day. 14:10:29:21
>>ROSE FERLITA: Just to say something further, that's what 14:10:35:24
you're hopeful of. 14:10:38:10
I'm not sure if I'm hopeful or not hopeful. 14:10:40:12
At the same time, we know that's when you have to up or down, 14:10:42:21
and it may be that we're back to what we are today. 14:10:45:09
Seeing property rights trumps the other. 14:10:48:15
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I at least wanted to put them on notice we 14:10:51:06
could be voting for all 15, because they deserve that notice. 14:10:53:18
So that would be what? 14:10:58:03

>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I said the first -- the second, because we 14:11:00:24
don't have an evening meeting. 14:11:05:03
>>GWEN MILLER: February 2nd at 1:30. 14:11:06:22
All in favor, aye. 14:11:11:16
[ MOTION CARRIED ] 14:11:12:06
>> Thanks for your patience. 14:11:12:21
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I apologize. 14:11:17:01
I have to leave, but I will be back tonight. 14:11:18:00
It's my daughter's 15th birthday. 14:11:21:03
I'm missing it tonight. 14:11:23:06
I have to pick her up from school. 14:11:24:21
>>GWEN MILLER: Unfinished business item number 7. 14:11:31:21
Anyone here from legal to discuss about the transportation 14:11:33:27
concurrency? 14:11:36:07
>>MORRIS MASSEY: Morris Massey, Legal Department. 14:11:38:18
I submitted a memo to the clerk's office and all members of the 14:11:40:13
Council yesterday requesting an extension to the last Thursday 14:11:43:24
in March for us to make a presentation relative to that. 14:11:47:00
The reason for the request relative to the TCA is DCA is coming 14:11:50:10
out with guidelines in early March relative to what they are 14:11:54:24
expecting, relative to TCA's from local governments, and we 14:11:58:27
would like to have that guidance from -- before we come forward 14:12:03:06
and have discussions with you. 14:12:09:00
We would like to have input from DCA before we have a formal 14:12:13:16
conversation about the options available. 14:12:19:12

>>GWEN MILLER: All in favor, aye. 14:12:21:18
[ MOTION CARRIED ] 14:12:22:25
Is anyone still here that wants to ask for reconsideration? 14:12:23:10
Is there anyone in the public who wants to speak? 14:12:35:10
We go to committee reports. 14:12:37:27
Public safety. 14:12:42:21
>>ROSE FERLITA: Move item 9. 14:12:43:12
>>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second. 14:12:44:19
All in favor, aye. 14:12:45:19
[ MOTION CARRIED ] 14:12:46:15
Parks and recreation. 14:12:47:15
>>MARY ALVAREZ: I would like to move items 10 to 12. 14:12:48:13
>>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion, aye. 14:12:52:21
[ MOTION CARRIED ] 14:12:54:04
Public works, John Dingfelder? I've had my question answered on 14:12:54:22
item 19. 14:12:59:00
I'll move all of my items, items 13 through 24. 14:13:00:18
>>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion, aye. 14:13:07:06
[ MOTION CARRIED ] 14:13:08:24
Finance Committee, Mr. Kevin White. 14:13:11:01
>>KEVIN WHITE: Move 25 through 28. 14:13:12:27
>>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion, aye. 14:13:15:06
[ MOTION CARRIED ] 14:13:16:15
Building, zoning,. 14:13:17:12
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll move 29 through 31. 14:13:21:06

>>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion. 14:13:25:00
Aye. 14:13:26:06
[ MOTION CARRIED ] 14:13:26:12
Transportation, Ms. Mary Alvarez. 14:13:27:15
>>MARY ALVAREZ: I move items 32 through 38. 14:13:28:25
>>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second. 14:13:42:09
All in favor of the motion, aye. 14:13:44:19
[ MOTION CARRIED ] 14:13:46:00
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Then 39. 14:13:47:00
40 is -- 14:13:48:28
>>GWEN MILLER: All in favor, aye. 14:13:58:18
[ MOTION CARRIED ] 14:13:59:24
Okay. 14:14:00:10
We go to our public hearings. 14:14:03:03
41 has been heard. 14:14:06:13
We go to 42. 14:14:07:22
Everybody in the public who will speak on any one of these items 14:14:11:12
from 42 through 45, would you please stand and raise your right 14:14:14:00
hand. 14:14:18:06
(Oath administered by the clerk). 14:14:19:16
>>GWEN MILLER: Item 42 is a continued public hearing. 14:14:27:18
>>MARTIN SHELBY: Any public records that have been available 14:14:31:10
relative to today's hearings at City Council chambers I ask that 14:14:34:00
be received and filed now at this time. 14:14:37:09
>>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second. 14:14:42:18

All in favor of the motion, aye. 14:14:43:15
[ MOTION CARRIED ] 14:14:44:27
>>MARTIN SHELBY: Just a reminder, any ex parte communications 14:14:46:16
relative to any of these hearings, please disclose prior to the 14:14:50:03
vote. 14:14:54:06
>> Cook, Land Development coordination. 14:14:55:09
I have been sworn in. 14:14:56:21
Vacate a portion of Rome Avenue running from Platt Street. 14:14:58:22
This is the Crosstown Expressway. 14:15:07:06
Portion of Rome South of Platt Street. 14:15:08:18
This is the Post Hyde Park apartments. 14:15:11:00
[INAUDIBLE] 14:15:14:09
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Petitioner own everything in the red? 14:15:20:21
>> This is the current existing apartments on the West side of 14:15:22:25
Rome. 14:15:26:06
These properties over here are owned by the post Hyde Park 14:15:27:04
apartments. 14:15:31:22
I believe there are existing leases there that I think expire in 14:15:32:00
a couple of years. 14:15:35:04
And I'll let the petitioner speak about that. 14:15:36:01
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: How about further up? 14:15:38:09
>> This is an outparcel. 14:15:39:28
Not affected by the vacating. 14:15:41:09
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm talking about right along the yellow. 14:15:45:01
>> This is a portion they own. 14:15:47:28

Everything all the way up to Platt Street on both sides. 14:15:48:27
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you. 14:15:51:25
>> This is a shot of Rome Avenue looking South from Platt 14:15:54:27
Street. 14:15:57:06
This is another shot of Rome looking South from the middle of 14:16:01:01
the block. 14:16:03:21
This is Rome Avenue looking South towards a dead end. 14:16:06:21
And the Crosstown is beyond those trees in the very back. 14:16:11:00
This is the property abutting Rome at the dead end. 14:16:16:06
This is a shot of Rome Avenue looking North towards Platt 14:16:22:21
Street. 14:16:26:00
This is some of the abutting property along Rome Avenue. 14:16:28:16
This is property on the East side this is another shot of 14:16:31:15
property abutting on the East. 14:16:35:24
More property abutting Rome on the East side. 14:16:46:03
Property along the East side of Rome Avenue. 14:16:51:15
This is a shot at the corner of Rome Avenue and Platt Street. 14:16:55:04
It's the southeast corner. 14:17:00:25
This is looking across Platt Street at the southwest corner. 14:17:02:12
This is Rome right here. 14:17:05:12
And this is a shot of the petitioner's abutting property on the 14:17:09:16
West side of Rome Avenue. 14:17:13:00
The petitioner has agreed to conditions as requested by 14:17:14:15
Department of Public Works, Verizon, solid waste, stormwater, 14:17:17:22
TECO, and the Water Department. 14:17:21:16

Staff has no objections. 14:17:23:18
>>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner? 14:17:24:24
>> Good afternoon, Council. 14:17:32:28
Clayton Bricklemyer representing post. 14:17:33:22
Mr. Cook I think summed it up pretty well. 14:17:37:04
This is a piece of Rome Avenue that we own both sides of that 14:17:40:06
comes to a dead end. 14:17:43:18
And we are happy to take it off the city's books in an effort to 14:17:44:28
redevelop the property. 14:17:48:15
We're going to plan to extend the apartments, I believe. 14:17:50:15
And pending approval of this vacation, we're going to move 14:17:54:13
forward with that process. 14:17:57:18
And we have agreed to a couple of conditions that we're fine 14:17:58:19
with. 14:18:02:15
And we would appreciate your consideration. 14:18:02:25
Thanks. 14:18:04:18
>>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public like to speak on 14:18:04:27
item number 42? 14:18:07:10
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have a question. 14:18:13:04
Christine? 14:18:14:12
Very often, transportation staff has objections to vacating, 14:18:19:21
especially vacating entire streets. 14:18:26:00
Are you guys wholly comfortable with this? 14:18:29:09
>> Christine Bruno transportation. 14:18:33:06
I have been sworn in. 14:18:34:12

Transportation has had extensive discussions with the petitioner 14:18:36:13
to put in two conditions that would allow transportation to 14:18:40:15
review during the future development and address our concerns. 14:18:44:06
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: So you're comfortable with it. 14:18:49:24
>> Yes. 14:18:52:01
>>GWEN MILLER: We have a mowing and second to close. 14:18:53:00
All in favor of the motion, aye. 14:18:54:16
>>KEVIN WHITE: Move an ordinance vacating, closing, 14:18:55:22
discontinuing and abandoning a certain right-of-way, alley 14:18:58:09
portion of Rome Avenue, 18th street lying South of Platt 14:19:02:15
Street in West Side Park, a subdivision in the City of Tampa, 14:19:05:18
Hillsborough County, Florida same more clearly described in 14:19:09:18
section 2 hereof, providing an effective date. 14:19:11:15
>>GWEN MILLER: Have a motion and second. 14:19:13:03
All in favor of the motion, aye. 14:19:14:25
[ MOTION CARRIED ] 14:19:15:25
Item 43 is a continued public hearing. 14:19:17:00
>> James Cook, Land Development Coordination. 14:19:26:25
I've been sworn. 14:19:28:21
Petitioner is requesting to vacate a North-South alley running 14:19:29:21
from Park Avenue to Frances Avenue and lying between Florida 14:19:32:15
Avenue and Morgan Street. 14:19:35:00
This is the avenue from Frances to Park. 14:19:41:00
Florida Avenue on the West. 14:19:42:18
Petitioner owns the property, single lot approximately 50 by 14:19:46:10

150. 14:19:47:01
This is the metropolitan ministries across the street for point 14:19:49:18
of reference. 14:19:53:06
This alley is inside the Tampa Heights historic district. 14:19:54:00
This is a shot of the alley looking North from Park Avenue. 14:19:57:15
The alley is approximately from this utility pole West from the 14:20:00:10
building. 14:20:05:19
That's a ten-foot alleyway. 14:20:06:22
This is a shot of the alley looking South from Frances Avenue. 14:20:10:16
Petitioner's property is over here. 14:20:18:03
It's a vacant lot. 14:20:19:22
This is a shot of the property abutting on the East side of the 14:20:21:03
alley. 14:20:24:16
This is a shot of abutting property on the East side of the 14:20:29:06
alley on Frances. 14:20:31:21
This is abutting property on the west side. 14:20:36:00
This is Florida Avenue. 14:20:37:28
Metropolitan Ministries site. 14:20:39:27
This is another shot of that same abutting property on the west 14:20:44:12
side. 14:20:47:13
This is a shot of the alley continuing south across Park Avenue. 14:20:50:24
This alley is used and open. 14:20:54:12
Just from a historical standpoint -- the orange line is the 14:20:57:06
Tampa Heights Historic District. 14:21:04:21
The alley is bisected by that district. 14:21:06:13

This is the alley they are asking for to vacate right here in 14:21:08:27
the general area, there are a couple of vacatings that have 14:21:12:03
already taken place in the past. 14:21:15:01
But overall in the Tampa Heights historic district, 85 total 14:21:16:15
alleys. 14:21:20:01
Of those 85, 63 are still open and 22 have been vacated. 14:21:20:16
Based on the A.R.C. objection to this alley, staff is 14:21:24:07
recommending denial for this vacating request. 14:21:28:00
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Identify the exact portion we're talking 14:21:33:01
about today. 14:21:37:21
>> They want to vacate this portion from Frances to park. 14:21:40:27
East and West has already been vacated. 14:21:44:18
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: To the North, that alley is the one you 14:21:46:22
showed us? 14:21:49:15
>> No, the one I showed you continuing is down here. 14:21:50:12
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: So that one is being used? 14:21:53:21
>> Yes, sir, that one is still being used to the North is -- I 14:21:56:13
can't remember the name of the old church. 14:22:00:16
They renovated to the house. 14:22:02:15
That straddles that alleyway. 14:22:04:19
That one is vacated. 14:22:06:18
The -- 14:22:08:18
>>KEVIN WHITE: That is an impassable alley with your pictures, 14:22:10:06
correct? 14:22:13:21
>> That is correct. 14:22:14:22

It is impassable. 14:22:15:06
There's a fence in it. 14:22:16:00
Some vegetation, like -- people landscape it. 14:22:17:06
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: There's no building in it. 14:22:21:25
>> No. 14:22:23:15
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just a fence and vegetation. 14:22:24:00
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Mr. Cook, according to your report, everybody 14:22:28:18
did -- there were no objections from anybody with the exception 14:22:33:03
of the historic preservation. 14:22:36:15
And then you said you don't approve of it. 14:22:37:25
>> Yeah, based on the A.R.C. objecting to this alley vacating. 14:22:40:03
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Everybody else said -- 14:22:43:27
>> Utilities has a problem with it. 14:22:45:27
>>KEVIN WHITE: Mr. Schuller, I hope you are ready to submit your 14:22:49:06
hardship. 14:22:52:21
>>MARY ALVAREZ: That was the recommendation from the historic 14:22:53:15
preservation -- 14:22:56:12
>> Is what we are basing our denial. 14:22:57:06
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Sanitary sewers or something like that, would 14:22:59:16
you have done the same? 14:23:01:21
>> Any time a department who reviews a vacating objects to it, 14:23:03:15
we bring that objection to your attention. 14:23:08:18
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Thank you. 14:23:10:16
>> Good afternoon. 14:23:11:27
I'm Ralph Schuller with 2101 North Jefferson. 14:23:12:09

I am the authorized agent. 14:23:15:28
It's actually my mother-in-law's property. 14:23:17:06
I'm here today to explain to you why I'm here. 14:23:19:15
First of all, we're trying to build a new house that was 14:23:23:07
basically at final approval for the property in question. 14:23:26:09
And when A.R.C. we were trying to basically use that alley as 14:23:30:22
access to accessory structure for offstreet parking spaces. 14:23:38:21
It was determined this alley is not usable because there is a 14:23:46:16
grand oak tree impacting this alley on the adjacent property. 14:23:49:03
That oak tree, which is not on the property in question that my 14:23:57:18
mother-in-law owns, it's on the adjacent property to the South, 14:24:02:09
is right on the property line and the small alley is only 14:24:05:09
10-feet wide. 14:24:09:21
There's at least a 10-foot buffered radius around any grand oak 14:24:10:25
tree. 14:24:14:12
Therefore, transportation told me if I couldn't open the entire 14:24:15:00
alley from street to street, I couldn't use the alley at all. 14:24:18:15
So now I've got an alley that's there that's not usable by any 14:24:21:12
of the three property owners. 14:24:26:15
The property owner to the South, which I have a letter from, is 14:24:28:10
for the vacation. 14:24:32:00
I've spoken to metropolitan ministries. 14:24:33:13
Of course, they are a large organization with many moving parts 14:24:36:09
and it's hard to get them to write something for you. 14:24:38:15
But they are not here today, and they understand the situation. 14:24:41:00

Of course, would be benefitting from closing this alley by 14:24:44:13
additional land. 14:24:48:12
And the Neighborhood Association, which, again, I can submit a 14:24:49:04
letter for is generally not for closing alleys, absolutely. 14:24:52:15
But we in this particular instance don't have an alley that's 14:24:56:09
functional and usable and no one wants to tear down this 14:24:59:07
beautiful tree, not us, not the people who own the tree to the 14:25:02:06
South of us, and I need to get access to the property in 14:25:06:00
question for my mother-in-law so that she can have now a -- use 14:25:11:10
a driveway that then would be on her property to get access to 14:25:20:00
back to an accessory structure. 14:25:24:18
If you deny me that request, I would either have to redesign the 14:25:27:15
building, even though it was told me all the way through in the 14:25:29:28
process that this was going to be acceptable and only at the 14:25:32:27
very, very last time I was going for final approval did 14:25:35:09
transportation have these objections that I couldn't use an 14:25:38:13
alley halfway. 14:25:41:21
Either had to be all the way or not at all. 14:25:42:19
Therefore, I'm asking you to close it. 14:25:45:00
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: If thing is transportation driven, I would 14:25:50:06
like to hear from transportation in their own words. 14:25:53:00
>> The person that I spoke to was Roger Kuric from 14:25:57:01
transportation several times. 14:26:02:01
>> Fortunately, I am not. 14:26:05:15
I did not have direct conversation with the petitioner about his 14:26:07:07

site plan. 14:26:09:12
I only review the vacating petition. 14:26:10:00
And I did not have an objection with vacating the alley because 14:26:12:15
it is impassable, and it was a ten-foot alley. 14:26:15:27
And currently not used by any other public works department. 14:26:19:00
So I apologize. 14:26:23:06
I can go back and speak to Roger or my other staff. 14:26:24:10
But I do not have knowledge of the conversation. 14:26:28:04
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: My concern perhaps for future reference is 14:26:33:06
that if transportation is going to be creating a situation 14:26:36:06
asking us to vacate an alley that's contrary to the historic 14:26:42:10
district's typical policy, then perhaps transportation needs to 14:26:46:10
be speaking to other parts of the administration about those 14:26:50:15
issues. 14:26:53:03
Because I think generally speaking, we shouldn't be vacating 14:26:54:09
these, especially in the historic districts, so maybe 14:26:57:09
transportation, not you, but others might be a little more 14:27:00:16
flexible as they review these anyway. 14:27:03:24
>> Okay. 14:27:07:15
I will relay that. 14:27:07:27
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Mr. Schuller, who takes care of the alleys now? 14:27:09:21
>> Currently, my mother-in-law is taking care of the northern 14:27:12:21
part of the alley which we're mowing because it's truly only 14:27:16:15
grass. 14:27:19:21
There's no pavement or anything there. 14:27:20:12

It hasn't been an alley in decades. 14:27:21:28
I mean, as long as I've known anyone who has lived in the 14:27:24:12
neighborhood, they said it's never been a functional alley 14:27:27:16
because of the tree impacting the alley. 14:27:30:21
>>MARY ALVAREZ: What about the rest of the property? 14:27:32:21
>> To the South, that property owner is maintaining that and it 14:27:34:19
has obviously incorporated that into their landscape pattern 14:27:38:09
because it wasn't usable alley for them. 14:27:41:27
I don't think when they did that that they actually knew it was 14:27:45:27
an alley at some point. 14:27:48:28
They know now. 14:27:50:03
>>MARY ALVAREZ: How can you use it as a driveway if there's a 14:27:51:03
tree in there? 14:27:53:25
>> Again, the tree is not on my property. 14:27:55:06
It's on the property to the South. 14:27:57:16
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: It's just next to the alley. 14:28:00:15
>>MARY ALVAREZ: But that makes it impassable. 14:28:02:16
>> If you give me one second, I would like to speak to 14:28:10:06
specifically why I think the A.R.C. didn't go along with this 14:28:13:21
when I felt I was getting a favorable response when I petitioned 14:28:18:09
for this or else I wouldn't have done it. 14:28:22:06
That's not what I'm here to do. 14:28:24:25
I'm an architect and also a neighborhood person and go in front 14:28:26:18
of A.R.C. all the time. 14:28:29:18
I believe staff suggested to the preservation board that in the 14:28:33:22

future, again, this is hypothetical that it could impact the 14:28:40:18
commercial property. 14:28:45:09
But the commercial property is owned solely by one owner, even 14:28:46:10
though typically six or seven properties, its owned by one owner 14:28:50:21
and would be developed some day, I'm sure, by someone else other 14:28:54:15
than metropolitan ministries. 14:28:58:06
And honestly, it makes it better for everyone, because when this 14:29:00:03
is closed, the tree becomes less of an issue. 14:29:03:21
And also now we have a better distinction -- instead of sharing 14:29:06:27
a public, private or commercial and private alley, this alley is 14:29:10:15
closed and then we can come in and talking to other staff 14:29:16:06
members, coming away with your typical six-foot barrier wall and 14:29:22:19
you have a better transition between a commercial property and a 14:29:26:15
residential neighborhood and versus us trying to share what is 14:29:29:09
really an impassable alley. 14:29:33:07
>>KEVIN WHITE: I was just looking at the pictures and I'm very 14:29:37:28
familiar with this neighborhood. 14:29:40:12
First of all, it is impassable on the other side, who is 14:29:42:01
maintaining it now on both sides. 14:29:48:01
The property owners are maintaining it. 14:29:49:18
This is a very, very active neighborhood. 14:29:52:16
Mr. Schuller has been the past president of the Neighborhood 14:29:55:09
Association. 14:29:57:21
I've had several dealings with the neighborhood, not on this 14:29:58:15
particular issue, but I do know it would have representatives 14:30:03:09

down here in droves especially since the A.R.C. has had 14:30:06:19
objection to this. 14:30:11:27
I know this neighborhood would be down here in droves if this 14:30:20:03
would be something that would negatively impact the 14:30:23:09
neighborhood. 14:30:25:12
>>GWEN MILLER: Anyone in the public like to speak on item number 14:30:30:00
43. 14:30:32:04
Motion and second to close. 14:30:33:06
All in favor of the motion, aye. 14:30:34:12
>>ROSE FERLITA: I've always known Mr. Schuller to be a bright 14:30:39:00
gentleman. 14:30:42:04
I don't know why he's taking care of his mother-in-law's 14:30:42:21
property -- 14:30:45:06
[ LAUGHTER ] 14:30:45:06
>>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Santiago, do you have an ordinance for us. 14:30:48:15
>> Let me leave you with this thought. 14:30:57:15
When one of these petitions comes before you with a nonapproval 14:30:59:24
recommendation, we do not prepare an ordinance in anticipation. 14:31:03:00
So if you choose to act favorably on it, I need you to also 14:31:08:15
include motion for legal to draft. 14:31:09:19
>> Move to have legal draft and prepare ordinance. 14:31:12:03
Can you bring it back to us tonight? 14:31:15:07
>> We certainly could do that. 14:31:17:22
>>GWEN MILLER: You can bring it back in a few minutes, we'll 14:31:22:18
still be here. 14:31:25:06

[ MOTION CARRIED ] 14:31:25:21
>> James Cook, Land Development Coordination. 14:31:36:00
If approved, request drainage and utilities be reserved. 14:31:39:25
>>GWEN MILLER: Item 44 is a continued public hearing. 14:31:46:06
>> Marty Boyle, Land Development. 14:32:29:00
I have been sworn. 14:32:30:28
The petitioner requests a rezoning from RM-16 to a planned 14:32:33:09
development. 14:32:39:13
This is a continued case from November 17th meeting, and the 14:32:40:00
reason they asked for a continuance is because staff had 14:32:47:18
concerns with the design. 14:32:51:12
The petitioner has redesigned the elevation in response to the 14:32:53:22
staff's comments. 14:32:57:09
The property is located at 2308 Jetton Avenue. 14:32:59:04
And like I said, they are asking -- Jetton, to a PD. 14:33:04:15
The petitioner did state in his narrative that the purpose of 14:33:12:15
the addition on the West elevation was because he has an 14:33:15:03
expanding family situation. 14:33:20:21
If you look on the elmo, this is the subject property. 14:33:23:21
It is northwest of the Crosstown, west of Howard, and south of 14:33:30:04
Morrison Avenue. 14:33:37:27
It is zoned RM-16 directly adjacent to it is commercial general. 14:33:40:06
It was allowed to be a single-family residence in conjunction 14:33:47:15
with a zoning covenant. 14:33:51:15
Staff has no objections to the petition. 14:33:55:06

I'll show you some pictures of the existing home. 14:34:00:03
That is the existing structure. 14:34:06:21
I think that's too tight, whoever is controlling that. 14:34:20:04
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: What do they want to do to it? 14:34:29:06
>> They want to -- I will show you. 14:34:31:27
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Because that thing wasn't built but a couple 14:34:33:00
of years ago. 14:34:36:09
>> This is the proposed elevation. 14:34:38:27
Oh, that's better. 14:34:45:12
They are taking it from a two story residential to a three story 14:34:46:13
with the third story being stepped back. 14:34:54:00
Original design had the addition as being part of this West side 14:34:57:21
here, and it just didn't -- it was too close to the neighbors. 14:35:09:01
And this staff feels is a better design for the neighborhood. 14:35:15:19
If I can show you the aerial of what is surrounding the 14:35:19:10
property. 14:35:26:21
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: What's the ultimate height at the roof? 14:35:27:03
>> I believe it is 35 feet. 14:35:30:22
If you look at the aerial surrounding, you have three-story 14:35:38:00
apartments directly behind it, and I believe this building also 14:35:41:15
is three stories. 14:35:45:18
So it doesn't seem to be a major impact going up three stories 14:35:47:07
that design. 14:35:51:01
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Excuse me, Marty, do you want to put that back? 14:35:55:00
The aerial. 14:35:59:25

And the building behind it -- 14:36:01:01
>> These are apartments, multifamily. 14:36:03:12
>>MARY ALVAREZ: The one in the corner, that's directly in back 14:36:04:19
of them or that's part of the house? 14:36:07:21
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's to the side of them. 14:36:11:27
>> It's a single-family residence. 14:36:14:04
I don't know if I have a picture of that. 14:36:27:10
I do have pictures of the surrounding up and down Jetton. 14:36:29:12
That's directly just, I believe, East of this. 14:36:41:00
This is on the corner there where the Crosstown and Howard. 14:36:46:00
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Do you have a picture of the house that's behind 14:36:50:00
it? 14:36:51:27
>> Behind it is a three-story apartment multifamily. 14:36:54:16
>>MARY ALVAREZ: I thought you said it was a single-family. 14:37:01:03
>> The petitioner is stating this is the house directly beside 14:37:07:27
it. 14:37:11:15
>>MARY ALVAREZ: This house is facing Jetton. 14:37:25:15
>> Correct. 14:37:27:25
>>MARY ALVAREZ: What is behind it? 14:37:27:25
What's that other street? 14:37:29:27
>>MARTY BOYLE: When you say behind -- 14:37:33:01
>>MARY ALVAREZ: See that house, right behind the house itself. 14:37:37:06
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's a swimming pool. 14:37:42:00
>>MARTY BOYLE: You're talking about right here. 14:37:44:24
>>MARY ALVAREZ: You have a square there. 14:37:46:03

What is that? 14:37:52:15
>>MARTY BOYLE: That's a single-family residence. 14:37:54:03
And that is two story and that is this property. 14:37:57:12
>>ROSE FERLITA: So the three-story apartment is next to that 14:38:06:09
two-story other house? 14:38:09:16
And then that abuts the Crosstown. 14:38:14:10
Is that right? 14:38:17:24
>> Here is the Crosstown. 14:38:21:24
These are number apartments. 14:38:23:03
This is single-family residential. 14:38:25:09
This is single-family residential. 14:38:27:28
They are in RM-16 zoning. 14:38:29:04
But they had a zoning covenant that allowed them to build 14:38:31:21
single-family residences. 14:38:35:06
>> There are no objections to this request. 14:38:40:04
Planning Commission also found it consistent with the 14:38:41:18
comprehensive plan. 14:38:46:09
And I will let the petitioner speak. 14:38:47:00
>>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner? 14:38:51:24
>> Hi. 14:39:02:15
Linda Pearson, 1200 West Platt. 14:39:03:00
They have a new baby in their household and also Mr. El Sheik's 14:39:07:12
mom will be living with them. 14:39:13:18
She speaks no English and doesn't drive. 14:39:15:07
She's completely dependent on them for interpretation as well as 14:39:18:13

transportation services. 14:39:21:27
Due to the expanding family, they love being in South Tampa and 14:39:24:21
in this area. 14:39:28:03
They have a very good relationship with the next-door neighbor 14:39:29:03
that Ms. Alvarez was requesting information about, which is this 14:39:32:09
neighbor here who sold them their house as a matter of fact. 14:39:36:18
I have letters in support from some of the other abutting 14:39:40:27
property owners from the notices. 14:39:44:15
They are very interested in building something that's very 14:39:47:06
quality for the neighborhood, and they have adapted their design 14:39:56:03
in order to meet the zoning as well as the concerns of the staff 14:40:00:27
and the addition on the top floor is recessed into the property 14:40:07:13
so it's not intrusive to the abutting properties which are 14:40:09:27
multifamily to the South and directly in front of them is 14:40:13:06
actually the back of -- I think -- I hope I'm pronouncing it 14:40:18:00
correct. 14:40:23:28
CHI-CHO's. 14:40:27:19
This is the view from their front yard as you look from their 14:40:29:22
driveway to the back. 14:40:33:19
Not a very pleasant view. 14:40:34:24
I don't think they'll object to the new residence they are 14:40:40:12
planning to expand. 14:40:44:06
We have amended the site plan in order to address transportation 14:40:45:06
comments. 14:40:48:21
The rear of the property I can just share with you a view from 14:40:49:03

Watrous, if I might. 14:40:54:06
I'm sitting at Watrous. 14:40:56:09
The Crosstown is above my head. 14:40:57:18
There's a railroad. 14:41:00:06
There's some city property that's sort of a park area there. 14:41:01:04
This is the subject property. 14:41:04:03
This is the CG zoning used for overflow parking. 14:41:05:22
We request your support and I have some letters enter into the 14:41:12:15
record. 14:41:16:06
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: A question of staff. 14:41:17:12
I guess I'm confused procedurally if they were allowed to build 14:41:19:28
the two-story house under the RM-16 and this is still a 14:41:23:21
single-family use, then why the PD today? 14:41:28:07
>> The PD was because it couldn't meet the setbacks. 14:41:32:16
So -- setback requirements. 14:41:35:15
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I didn't think they were changing the 14:41:38:12
footprint of the first two floors. 14:41:40:03
>>MARTY BOYLE: Yes, they are. 14:41:42:19
They are adding -- if you look at the site plans -- 14:41:43:18
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: So it's not just adding the third floor. 14:41:51:13
We're adding to the footprint of the. 14:41:54:15
>>KEVIN WHITE: They are covering the driveway making a garage. 14:42:02:12
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: We're adding there, above that and then 14:42:04:28
making the third -- 14:42:07:18
>>KEVIN WHITE: It's a big baby. 14:42:10:27

>>GWEN MILLER: Anyone in the public like to speak on item number 14:42:12:06
44. 14:42:15:24
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Second. 14:42:23:00
>>GWEN MILLER: All in favor, aye. 14:42:23:21
[ MOTION CARRIED ] 14:42:24:21
>>ROSE FERLITA: Under other circumstances in another area and 14:42:26:06
other site behind it I sure would have a problem, but given what 14:42:29:15
these people have behind them. 14:42:33:13
The fact that they have the three story apartment, the 14:42:35:03
Crosstown, chi Kho's and Tony, I see no problem and I think it's 14:42:37:13
a thoughtful rendering and I'm ready to move for approval. 14:42:43:15
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Rezoning property in the general vicinity of 14:42:46:27
2308 West Jetton Avenue in the City of Tampa, Florida, and more 14:42:50:03
particularly described in section 1 from zoning district 14:42:54:01
classifications RM-16, residential multifamily, to PD -- 14:42:56:09
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I agree with what Ms. Ferlita said. 14:43:11:21
The location of this probably will persuade me to vote for this. 14:43:13:12
However, you're taking up a lot of the property with their new 14:43:16:19
footprint. 14:43:25:01
How does that relate to our stormwater code, how does that 14:43:26:18
relate to our proposed amendments of the stormwater code? 14:43:29:22
>> By code today, they would be required to provide if they are 14:43:32:15
over 50% impervious, provide retention somewhere on the site. 14:43:37:21
They can do an underground gravel bed. 14:43:43:12
>>GWEN MILLER: A motion and second. 14:43:51:03

All in favor, aye. 14:43:52:10
[ MOTION CARRIED ] 14:43:53:06
Item 45, need to open. 14:43:54:06
Motion and second. 14:43:56:07
All in favor of the motion, aye. 14:43:57:00
>>MARTIN SHELBY: This is an appeal hearing. 14:44:03:15
Before we begin, I had the opportunity to speak to Mr. Santiago. 14:44:05:21
This is under the new standard of review under the new appeals 14:44:09:25
process. 14:44:13:28
Which is not de novo. 14:44:15:00
Basically what you are doing is you are reviewing whether the 14:44:17:09
board below, whether the decision is submitted with competent, 14:44:20:15
due process accorded and whether the substantial requirement of 14:44:27:15
law have been met. 14:44:30:03
And I'm providing you with a copy of that standard review with 14:44:30:25
that highlighted. 14:44:35:00
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: This was a procedure that we changed? 14:44:53:18
>>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, this is under the new and amended and 14:44:55:21
enacted 27-373. 14:44:59:15
>> Eric Cotton, Land Development Coordination. 14:45:07:24
Appeal of VRB 05-139. 14:45:10:27
Brian Buchli was the petitioner. 14:45:17:00
-- fire escape off their second story. 14:45:23:10
The board heard the request and denied it. 14:45:25:15
The petitioner has chosen to appeal to City Council. 14:45:28:04

>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Question. 14:45:31:24
When I read the transcript, I thought there was quite a bit of 14:45:32:15
discussion about -- you just used the term "fire escape." 14:45:36:27
>> It was deck with -- as you read through the transcript. 14:45:43:04
Part of the reason for the deck was they have a deck coming off 14:45:45:24
the back, then set of stairs coming down because they have no 14:45:48:21
exit from the upper floor through to get out in the case of a 14:45:52:07
fire on the down stair section. 14:45:57:00
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: But I remember one of the VRB members saying 14:45:59:19
something like, why don't you just build a fire escape? 14:46:03:10
>>ERIC COTTON: Correct. 14:46:08:07
That was a comment made. 14:46:08:24
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: So it's not just fire escape. 14:46:11:06
>>ERIC COTTON: It was a deck, that was part of the basis for the 14:46:13:06
request was for an emergency exit. 14:46:15:15
>>MARY ALVAREZ: My question was, since they were building the 14:46:20:09
deck, was there backyard steps to go down, fire escape means or 14:46:26:07
were they just going to stand there -- help. 14:46:31:21
>> Part of the outdoor thing had a flight of stairs going down. 14:46:36:06
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Did you have pictures of this? 14:46:39:04
I saw a copy of the site plan -- 14:46:43:10
>>ERIC COTTON: In the original application, there was none 14:46:46:09
presented. 14:46:49:06
Mr. Michelini is here representing the petitioner. 14:46:52:12
>>MARY ALVAREZ: I didn't see where the stairs were on the site 14:46:55:21

plan. 14:46:57:24
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: It's de novo. 14:47:09:07
Therefore we shouldn't look at any other evidence -- 14:47:10:27
>>MARTIN SHELBY: No, this is actually certiorari review. 14:47:14:12
This is under the new procedure which is not de novo, which 14:47:21:25
means that under the new and amended appeals process, you're 14:47:25:24
required to look at whether or not the VRB makes its decision on 14:47:32:06
competent, substantial evidence, whether due process was 14:47:39:24
afforded or violated in any way. 14:47:43:21
And third, whether the requirements of law have been observed. 14:47:45:22
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: The question, what evidence we should be 14:47:49:15
looking at. 14:47:52:15
>>MARTIN SHELBY: You should be looking at what's in the record 14:47:55:07
below. 14:47:58:12
>> There is one photograph here that was presented at the VRB 14:48:00:25
that you will be able to look at. 14:48:03:15
Otherwise, the evidence is in the packet that you had received. 14:48:05:24
>>MARY ALVAREZ: But there was a picture. 14:48:09:12
You give me a site plan and I can't see where the stairs are 14:48:10:21
that apparently they are talking about. 14:48:15:21
>> There is a photograph. 14:48:19:03
I have it here. 14:48:19:21
Mr. Michelini will show it to you when he gives his 14:48:20:13
presentation. 14:48:24:09
It does not show the fire escape. 14:48:24:18

Otherwise you are under the rules limited to what's in the 14:48:26:19
packet, what was presented, the evidence of record. 14:48:29:00
That is all. 14:48:31:13
>> Good afternoon. 14:48:36:06
Steve Michelini. 14:48:36:18
A couple of things I wanted to point out to you the petitioner 14:48:37:25
went to each of the surrounding property owners and received a 14:48:59:18
letter of support from each one of them. 14:49:02:12
I have them highlighted on this -- I don't think you saw the 14:49:05:13
highlighted portion. 14:49:09:28
So everyone immediately adjacent to him that would have been 14:49:10:16
affected by the letter of support. 14:49:13:09
The issue that really is before you and the petitioner put this 14:49:17:18
on the record that he was a firefighter. 14:49:20:12
His wife was a firefighter. 14:49:22:15
They have an extreme concern about safety and emergency egress 14:49:24:18
from their home. 14:49:28:03
There's no place for that to occur. 14:49:28:27
On page 4 of the transcript, it says the second floor is 14 feet 14:49:32:24
above the ground. 14:49:35:27
At the bottom of page four it says there's a driveway down there 14:49:37:06
and adjacent to that is an alley, therefore it would not impact 14:49:40:24
any adjacent property owner. 14:49:44:01
As I said, there's a safety concern not only -- he's not going 14:49:45:15
to make any more money from this. 14:49:48:03

He's not enclosing it, it's open. 14:49:50:03
He's been there for 21 years. 14:49:51:24
They have a six-year-old son that they have concerns about 14:49:54:18
getting out of the house. 14:49:58:01
Here is a picture that was shown to the VRB. 14:50:00:27
The second story is over the existing garage. 14:50:02:25
What you can see in the rear, this was built directly over the 14:50:08:25
garage, which means the only means of egress would be either 14:50:13:12
through another portion of the house or through a back 14:50:16:15
stairwell. 14:50:19:06
Which is what he was proposing. 14:50:20:07
And because of the code, when you exit from -- well, first of 14:50:23:09
all, you are required to have a second means of egress. 14:50:27:21
And the code assumes that you would have to exit through a 14:50:30:21
window and jump down from that second floor on to the ground. 14:50:33:16
What he was trying to do was to provide a stairwell, an open 14:50:37:16
stair that would go down, meet the code, it would have to hit a 14:50:42:12
landing and make a return so you would come down, hit a landing 14:50:45:28
and make the return. 14:50:50:04
And it was then on to the deck. 14:50:51:01
The reason that the request is for the deck also is because it's 14:50:53:03
more than three feet above grade, which means that's considered 14:50:56:21
part of the main structure. 14:51:03:12
On page 6, he identifies the alley behind the property and not 14:51:05:04
impacting anyone else. 14:51:08:12

On page 8 of the transcript, he identifies the fact that he had 14:51:10:15
support from all of his surrounding neighbors. 14:51:15:21
Page 9, the original windows were drawn on the plans but did not 14:51:18:28
meet the egress standard, which I just referred to. 14:51:22:15
Basically the standard is explained to me as an engineer is the 14:51:26:03
window needs to be large enough for a firefighter with an air 14:51:28:21
pack to be able to gain access to the building and climbing out 14:51:31:18
with a small child in the middle of the night. 14:51:34:15
He has some concerns about that being able to be effected. 14:51:36:27
So he proposed to do that through the means of an emergency 14:51:40:13
stairwell. 14:51:45:07
This is the southeast Seminole Heights area. 14:51:46:04
Typically houses in this area did have second means of egress. 14:51:49:06
They were normally used for service quarters and things like 14:51:52:09
that from the second level. 14:51:56:06
He's requesting something that obviously is in keeping with the 14:51:57:06
area. 14:52:01:24
The basic setback to eight feet would allow him to do that with 14:52:02:09
the landing and the stairwell. 14:52:07:03
And he's agreed and committed that that would be something that 14:52:09:06
would be the maximum and not necessarily built to those 14:52:12:19
specifications. 14:52:18:27
It could be less than that. 14:52:20:01
He's requesting that for the deck to be placed back for a safe 14:52:21:27
landing. 14:52:24:22

He's not in any position to adversely affect any adjoining 14:52:25:12
property owner. 14:52:29:09
And he's committed to, as well as with the other neighbors, 14:52:30:06
they've signed the affidavits and they have letters of support. 14:52:33:27
So we're respectfully asking for your support to allow him to 14:52:37:16
build that emergency egress so they have a safe landing coming 14:52:41:22
off the second floor. 14:52:47:06
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Mr. Michelini, show me again from the picture 14:52:50:13
how he's going to attach a deck. 14:52:54:00
>> Unfortunately, there was no picture of the rear that was 14:52:56:09
shown to you, but if you can imagine that immediately behind 14:52:58:06
this window on the backside where the alley is, that there would 14:53:04:21
be a stair coming out of a window about that size that would 14:53:08:12
come down, it would hit a landing and turn back down to the deck 14:53:15:04
so you would land on a deck where you could actually have room 14:53:18:12
to maneuver. 14:53:21:24
>>MARY ALVAREZ: So he's actually going to put a ladder on -- on 14:53:22:22
the stair of that backside of that window -- 14:53:26:21
>> On the backside of the building. 14:53:29:21
This is a room. 14:53:31:19
This is a bedroom. 14:53:32:04
That's actually the stair that comes up on the very backside of 14:53:34:03
the building, you would have something that would allow him to 14:53:36:28
come down off of the back of the building. 14:53:40:00
If you remember some of the older buildings along Nebraska 14:53:43:09

Avenue that had the side stairs that came out of the second 14:53:47:10
floor, that's what he's proposing to do. 14:53:50:19
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Okay. 14:53:52:24
>>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder. 14:53:53:06
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you. 14:53:55:06
Mr. Michelini, I know you are not an attorney but you play one 14:53:55:18
on TV. 14:54:01:03
>> No, sir, I don't. 14:54:02:07
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Have you see the standard of review that 14:54:03:00
staff handed us? 14:54:05:25
>> That one -- this morning? 14:54:07:27
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: No. 14:54:10:06
For this hearing right now. 14:54:11:19
Right here and now. 14:54:12:18
I want you to see it just because it's important to know what 14:54:16:21
you're operating under because primarily it's a newer revised 14:54:19:00
process. 14:54:22:03
Anyway, while you're looking at it, a couple of things. 14:54:23:13
One, we weren't supposed to get any new evidence. 14:54:27:25
And I want you to tell me where in the transcript it says that 14:54:30:21
he and his wife are firefighters because I didn't see where that 14:54:33:04
came up in the transcript. 14:54:36:22
I might have missed it. 14:54:37:27
Number two is the standard -- and Kevin, you always focus on 14:54:39:24
process. 14:54:45:19

Well, the standard that we're looking at, number one, two and 14:54:48:15
three, says that in order to reverse VRB, we have to conclude 14:54:51:24
that the VRB's conclusion I'm assuming was not supported by 14:54:58:15
competent substantial evidence or that this person was not 14:55:02:24
accorded due process or that the essential requirements of law 14:55:06:09
were not observed. 14:55:10:27
Is that appropriate interpretation, Mr. Shelby? 14:55:13:01
So I'll throw that to you, Mr. Michelini. 14:55:17:07
You've given us argument, but can you tell us which one of those 14:55:21:16
three you would fall under in order to allow us to reverse the 14:55:25:21
VRB based upon this new standard and also, is it anywhere in the 14:55:32:03
transcript that this gentleman and his wife are firefighters? 14:55:36:12
>> No, I just asked him, he did not indicate on the record that 14:55:40:00
he was a firefighter or his wife was. 14:55:42:12
>>MARTIN SHELBY: If I can, before Mr. Michelini answers, maybe 14:55:45:01
it's appropriate that I do this. 14:55:48:18
I'm sure Mr. Michelini is familiar with it, but I'll give him a 14:55:49:28
copy of it as well. 14:55:53:10
Just in terms of the essential requirements of law, I just 14:55:54:21
wanted to give Council a copy of what the variance review board 14:55:57:04
looks at when they make decisions with regard to hardships. 14:56:02:18
Which is section 17.5-74. 14:56:13:03
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Anyway, I guess it's back in your court. 14:56:26:12
Which of those three did he not get at the VRB? 14:56:29:03
>> I don't think they understood clearly that this was not just 14:56:33:00

a proposal to enlarge a deck on the back of his house. 14:56:35:28
And the petition says to construct a deck off of the second 14:56:39:27
story, which could easily have been construed as a balcony. 14:56:42:21
And I think the -- you're asking me to presuppose what their 14:56:47:15
thinking process was. 14:56:51:06
But my belief is that they thought he was adding a balcony to 14:56:53:13
include area that would become living space as opposed to 14:56:58:00
emergency egress for him and his family. 14:57:01:24
And that it would be built to code, which would require the 14:57:04:25
spaces that he had requested as part of a variance. 14:57:08:21
I don't think many people -- 14:57:16:04
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Anywhere in the transcript that would support 14:57:19:13
that argument? 14:57:21:10
>> Well, they are talking about decks in here, and the petition 14:57:22:06
itself, the application talks about the variance review board. 14:57:24:24
The board denied your request to construct a deck off of the 14:57:27:28
second story. 14:57:30:12
The deck is not on the second story. 14:57:32:06
The deck is near the ground level and the stair comes off of the 14:57:35:03
second level. 14:57:40:15
I mean, it says here the stair leads to the second story. 14:57:44:13
The stair is the only means of egress. 14:57:47:15
That's on page 4. 14:57:49:18
So if the bottom story were to catch fire, we would be 14:57:50:25
descending into a blaze. 14:57:54:15

So the proposed deck which is at the very rear of the property, 14:57:56:13
that's how the rear of the property appears now. 14:57:59:09
Page 4, top of page 5. 14:58:02:18
The driveway is down there. 14:58:04:04
The area right here is supposed to be -- is where the deck is 14:58:05:15
supposed to go with a stairway that leads into the backyard. 14:58:08:07
And it goes on to say, it's a safety concern. 14:58:11:28
We're not doing this as a property enhancement or something to 14:58:14:00
make money. 14:58:16:24
We've lived in the home for 21 years, and don't have any plans 14:58:17:12
of leaving. 14:58:20:07
My wife and I have a son, a six-year-old, and I think you can 14:58:21:12
understand our concern about the house to catch fire in the 14:58:24:16
bottom story in the middle of the night we have no means of 14:58:27:06
rapid egress. 14:58:30:24
I mean, he clearly is trying to demonstrate the need for an 14:58:32:00
emergency fire exit from the second floor of his house. 14:58:35:21
If this were in some extra other area of Tampa where you didn't 14:58:38:19
have common stairwells on the sides and rear of buildings, I'd 14:58:42:09
say that the denial was probably justified. 14:58:45:21
But in this case, Seminole Heights and southeast Seminole 14:58:48:18
Heights, those kind of stairs are all over the place. 14:58:51:22
We also have talked to a number of the Neighborhood Association. 14:58:59:09
They were supportive. 14:59:01:10
I think he spoke with bill Duval. 14:59:02:09

He spoke with other folks. 14:59:04:19
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Unless it's part of the record, we shouldn't 14:59:10:00
be -- 14:59:12:12
>>ROSE FERLITA: I know we have to keep to the evidence that was 14:59:13:06
looked at and discussed at the hearing. 14:59:15:19
Whether this is a stretch or not, I don't know. 14:59:18:18
I'm comfortable that the board's decision was, in fact, not 14:59:20:27
supported by competent evidence, because it appears that they 14:59:24:16
are talking about a deck as opposed to the stairs. 14:59:27:28
And from that standpoint, I think that the applicant has a valid 14:59:31:24
concern. 14:59:36:28
>>GWEN MILLER: Any other question from Council members? 14:59:38:09
Close the public hearing? 14:59:43:09
We have a motion and second to close. 14:59:44:00
All in favor of the motion, aye. 14:59:45:15
[ MOTION CARRIED ] 14:59:47:27
What's the pleasure, Council? 14:59:48:12
>>MARY ALVAREZ: I think there is a safety issue involved in this 14:59:50:06
thing. 14:59:53:00
He certainly is talking about it, that in case we're going into 14:59:53:24
the future of something that could happen, but it could happen 15:00:02:12
and I certainly -- I certainly wouldn't be one to say that we 15:00:07:15
were denying him his right to -- for safety for his family. 15:00:13:15
Besides, there were none of the neighbors that complained. 15:00:22:16
We have supporting in evidence here that they all supported him. 15:00:25:24

So I'm ready to say, you know, we're going to overturn the VRB. 15:00:29:12
>>ROSE FERLITA: If you don't mind me adding to that, I agree but 15:00:40:03
for different reasons. 15:00:44:00
We have to base our decision on these three things. 15:00:45:03
Of course, I neither want to be responsible for a gap in a 15:00:47:27
safety issue but that's not what we're looking at. 15:00:50:25
I think if the board looked at that in terms of a deck, then 15:00:53:00
that was not competent substantial evidence. 15:00:56:10
And from that standpoint, I would move to overturn the board's 15:00:58:12
decision. 15:01:04:03
>>MARTIN SHELBY: Sorry to interrupt, Council. 15:01:05:16
I just want to direct your attention to the sentence that 15:01:07:15
follows what's been highlighted, 27-373, because that's a 15:01:09:22
procedure that has also changed. 15:01:13:18
The City Council in reviewing the decision of the board or 15:01:15:06
commission may either affirm the board or commission's decision 15:01:17:13
or may remand the matter, which is send it back to the board of 15:01:20:15
commission for further proceedings with direction on how the 15:01:25:15
board or commission failed to comply with the above standards. 15:01:28:01
So if the issue is to not take into account means of egress for 15:01:32:04
fire safety, then that would be a direction that you can request 15:01:37:21
to remand to the board to take consistent with that. 15:01:41:15
In other words, you cannot overturn it. 15:01:45:09
It has to be remanded. 15:01:46:22
>>ROSE FERLITA: I'll change my motion to remand it based on that 15:01:47:24

consideration in terms of the safety issue from the stairs. 15:01:50:16
>>MARY ALVAREZ: It seems to me like they didn't have enough -- 15:01:53:00
the commissioners just didn't have enough -- they didn't talk 15:01:56:18
about it enough. 15:01:59:15
So, okay, we'll send it back. 15:02:00:27
>>GWEN MILLER: When we send it back, do they go along with our 15:02:04:04
recommendation. 15:02:06:27
>>MARTIN SHELBY: No. 15:02:07:18
What it is -- actually, yes. 15:02:08:12
They are looking for the motion to contain how the board or 15:02:10:03
commission failed to comply with the above standards. 15:02:14:00
And I guess the direction would be without putting words into 15:02:15:24
Council's mouth would be something consistent with the fact to 15:02:18:18
take into account competent substantial evidence relative to 15:02:21:09
fire safety and egress from the second story. 15:02:25:00
>>GWEN MILLER: Put that in your motion. 15:02:29:09
>>ROSE FERLITA: I did or will. 15:02:30:28
>>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second. 15:02:32:09
Question on the motion. 15:02:34:10
Mr. Dingfelder. 15:02:35:13
>> If we could for the record, procedurally, Eric began the 15:02:37:12
presentation to give you the facts, to lay the groundwork for 15:02:41:21
it. 15:02:43:21
The petitioner then comes in. 15:02:44:06
I just ask give the city a minute to rebut. 15:02:47:00

>>JOHN DINGFELDER: We need to reopen. 15:02:50:15
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Move to reopen. 15:02:52:19
>>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to reopen. 15:02:53:21
All in favor, aye. 15:02:55:13
[ MOTION CARRIED ] 15:02:56:13
>> You were provided with the City of Tampa's variance review 15:02:59:19
board, variance review criteria 17.5-74. 15:03:03:10
I would submit to you, City Council that the petitioner was 15:03:09:03
afforded due process and an opportunity to be heard. 15:03:11:06
The variance review board applied the appropriate standards I 15:03:13:28
just referenced in 17.5-74 and found that there was not 15:03:17:00
substantial -- competent substantial evidence to support those 15:03:21:15
criteria unique and singular to the property. 15:03:25:03
That being the case, we would ask that you affirm the decision 15:03:29:06
of the variance review board. 15:03:32:04
And move accordingly. 15:03:34:12
Thank you. 15:03:36:18
That is all. 15:03:36:24
>>GWEN MILLER: Need to close the public hearing again. 15:03:38:25
>>MARY ALVAREZ: So moved. 15:03:40:27
We got a motion and second to close. 15:03:44:24
All in favor, aye. 15:03:46:10
[ MOTION CARRIED ] 15:03:46:28
>>ROSE FERLITA: Madam Chairman, I appreciate Mr. Santiago's 15:03:47:22
input, but my motion remains the same for the same reasons. 15:03:50:18

>>MARY ALVAREZ: Second. 15:03:54:10
>>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second. 15:03:55:24
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Question. 15:03:57:00
If you would recognize me before. 15:03:58:15
>>GWEN MILLER: But you gave up your right. 15:04:00:06
[ LAUGHTER ] 15:04:03:03
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm very glad that Marty pointed that out, 15:04:03:27
because this is sort of new. 15:04:09:07
Previously I think we were in a position where we would actually 15:04:10:24
just reverse. 15:04:13:13
But now we're like a true appellate court, we can affirm or we 15:04:14:18
can remand it back with specific directions. 15:04:19:00
I just wanted to point out one thing to Council. 15:04:21:00
On page 12 of the transcript, Mr. Catallano who is an engineer 15:04:23:21
that we put on the VRB, you know, he looked at this. 15:04:27:18
He looked at the drawing. 15:04:30:27
He heard the testimony and he said -- he says at page 12, line 15:04:32:01
9, he says, "I guess my comment to the board is, if we're 15:04:37:01
looking at a fire escape mounted on the back of the building 15:04:40:25
that encroached in the required setback, it would be one thing. 15:04:43:15
But we're looking at a 14-foot wooden deck. 15:04:46:09
I think if truly the issue here was fire safety we would just be 15:04:49:21
looking at a fire escape, the least obtrusive means of getting 15:04:53:12
out of the building." 15:04:57:24
So I think we can send it back and make sure that they knew 15:04:58:21

exactly what they were looking at. 15:05:01:27
And then if they make the same decision, it will be back in 15:05:03:15
front of us again which is all fine and good. 15:05:06:22
That seems like where we were headed. 15:05:09:12
But I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt. 15:05:11:09
I think they knew exactly what they were looking at. 15:05:13:09
Anyway, I wanted to point that out. 15:05:15:27
>>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second. 15:05:17:18
All in favor, aye. 15:05:18:19
[ MOTION CARRIED ] 15:05:19:09
Okay. 15:05:21:12
We go to information from council members. 15:05:21:18
Mr. White, do you have anything? 15:05:23:07
>>KEVIN WHITE: Yes, just two very quick brief things. 15:05:26:28
I made a motion a couple of weeks ago that we give a 15:05:30:09
commendation to the people that jumped in the water to help save 15:05:33:18
the families off of the Courtney Campbell Causeway. 15:05:37:15
We made several attempts to get hold of them. 15:05:40:27
Haven't got an call back. 15:05:43:16
I did see on TV yesterday with Pinellas County City Council as 15:05:45:15
well as the Pinellas County Board of County Commissioners gave 15:05:49:06
all of those individuals commendations. 15:05:53:18
At the time of my motion, I was unaware that it happened on the 15:05:58:00
Pinellas side, not that that means a whole hill of beans, but 15:06:00:21
they had -- anyway, they've received those. 15:06:08:24

They received proper recognition. 15:06:12:10
And I'd like to rescind that motion and take it off of the 15:06:13:21
pending calendar. 15:06:16:15
>>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion, aye. 15:06:17:18
[ MOTION CARRIED ] 15:06:18:27
>>KEVIN WHITE: The second one, if you already did this, Madam 15:06:19:28
Chair, I apologize for reiterating because I was a few minutes 15:06:22:06
late to the meeting. 15:06:26:06
But I would like to give my condolences to the family of Al 15:06:26:25
barton who was the mail room supervisor who passed earlier this 15:06:30:01
week. 15:06:35:19
Our hearts and sympathy and prayers go out to the family in 15:06:36:01
their time of bereavement. 15:06:39:15
And he will be sadly missed. 15:06:41:09
>>GWEN MILLER: He has been working for 21 years, and like to 15:06:46:00
give his family a lot of sympathy and condolences. 15:06:49:03
>>ROSE FERLITA: Couple of things that brings to light that we 15:06:53:12
have been doing some ceremonial acknowledgment of the aids 15:06:56:15
memorial park. 15:07:00:18
When we think about that, I remember also that this 15:07:02:13
administration had taken the lead to continue the responsibility 15:07:05:00
that the Greco administration had initiated about the cancer 15:07:07:04
park at Al Lopez park adjacent to that. 15:07:12:21
It looks horrible. 15:07:15:04
And I think it's the same issue that Ms. Alvarez and I have 15:07:16:10

talked about before. 15:07:19:09
You may plant trees, but then if you don't water them, it 15:07:20:09
doesn't look good. 15:07:23:13
It is overgrown, accumulation, all kind of stuff that could be a 15:07:24:24
subject for Mr. Lane's code enforcement today. 15:07:29:00
I think if we have taken this over, we need to make it pretty. 15:07:31:03
Looks awful. 15:07:34:03
I'm embarrassed when I see it. 15:07:34:25
Probably just an oversight but let's get it done. 15:07:37:21
The second thing and I think it's a bigger issue. 15:07:41:09
In September of '03, we had some ceremonial announcements about 15:07:46:24
the courthouse. 15:07:50:00
And at that time, I was a little bit concerned. 15:07:50:18
This had gone on before this administration had taken over, when 15:07:54:07
Mr. Buckhorn talked about the possibility of taking this over 15:07:56:15
and having it deeded to the city, I had some real, real concerns 15:07:59:00
about whether or not this was a healthy building. 15:08:03:00
And I made several attempts to continue dialogue with 15:08:06:06
Mr. Harrell at the time, September 29, '03 and subsequent to 15:08:09:21
that and asked them to please assure me that we didn't have any 15:08:14:06
problems. 15:08:17:22
And they sent me an indoor air quality problem report that was 15:08:18:24
taken in 2000. 15:08:23:15
I continued having conversations with Mr. Huey. 15:08:24:19
He met me at my store. 15:08:27:00

Actually, I remember that. 15:08:28:13
Said everything was fine, not to worry. 15:08:29:21
Got some correspondence from Kim Norquist, bob Harrell continued 15:08:31:18
to tell them to let me know about the environment -- 15:08:36:00
environmental info and to let me know asap what was accomplished 15:08:38:27
and where we were with it. 15:08:42:21
And at the time that conversation kind of fell off, they assured 15:08:45:27
me that everything was fine. 15:08:48:24
Well, now I understand that the film industry has had some 15:08:50:16
projects there and wanted to continue having projects, 15:08:58:00
commercials, independent film, dateline, et cetera. 15:09:02:03
And they've been told they can no longer do anything there 15:09:05:03
because of indoor air complaints. 15:09:07:24
This is nothing to do with EPC. 15:09:09:27
I did check with one of their officers, Ms. Kay Strutter. 15:09:11:24
Of course, they have nothing to do with an indoor air complaint 15:09:16:07
issue. 15:09:19:15
Just simply asbestos and that type of things. 15:09:19:28
It concerns me, first of all, from the standpoint of the health 15:09:23:21
aspect. 15:09:26:06
It also concerns me that I had raised this issue and it went by 15:09:27:00
the wayside. 15:09:29:22
And it also concerns me -- and this is probably third in least 15:09:30:15
importance but from the economic standpoint. 15:09:35:18
We have a building now that's not going to be the museum. 15:09:38:15

We have a building that the film industry is not going to use. 15:09:40:25
And I want to know what other underlying problems we have. 15:09:43:18
I did ask and I remember like it was yesterday, where we are 15:09:48:21
with Phase One, phase two environmental studies. 15:09:50:19
And I didn't get a satisfactory answer and it was kind of a 15:09:52:25
short executive summary of what was going on. 15:09:56:04
And I continued to prompt Mr. Huey to give me more info, and it 15:10:00:21
went by the wayside. 15:10:04:09
So I'm asking again from the standpoint of a health concern, 15:10:05:18
from the standpoint of an economic concern, what do we have? 15:10:08:15
What have we tested in terms of determining what we have? 15:10:12:13
And what's going to happen to that vacant building in terms of 15:10:14:27
economic potential? 15:10:18:18
And I would like a response from the administration maybe in two 15:10:22:25
weeks, four weeks if they need it but not a written report. 15:10:25:12
I would like Mr. Huey to come in and finish our conversation 15:10:28:15
that evidently didn't get the attention it should have gotten 15:10:30:27
before and that's a motion. 15:10:33:21
>> Two weeks or four weeks? 15:10:35:27
>>ROSE FERLITA: Let's say two weeks. 15:10:37:12
If they don't think they have enough time. 15:10:38:25
What's the next one? 15:10:41:00
>>CLERK: Two weeks is your last meeting -- no, excuse me. 15:10:42:03
Two weeks would be January 5th, which is your first meeting 15:10:45:09
back after -- 15:10:49:09

>>ROSE FERLITA: We may have questions. 15:10:53:09
And at the same time, I'll leave this open. 15:10:54:18
I don't know who else we should talk to about this. 15:10:56:28
Evidently EPC doesn't have anything to do with that. 15:10:59:06
But the health department might. 15:11:01:27
So if I may take the initiative to ask the clerk's office to 15:11:03:03
also encourage the health department to weigh in if they want. 15:11:06:21
And then I'll do some research and see what other departments or 15:11:09:10
offices with the county need to look at it. 15:11:13:19
But it's a concern and that I had concern before. 15:11:16:27
And it's time to address it. 15:11:19:21
>>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second. 15:11:21:27
All in favor, aye. 15:11:23:01
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Just one thing. 15:11:26:09
Our sympathies and condolences out to Jack Wilson's family, too. 15:11:27:15
Passed away. 15:11:32:13
We all know what an important person he was to the development 15:11:33:22
of downtown and the Westshore district. 15:11:38:13
So our condolences. 15:11:41:24
>>ROSE FERLITA: Can I just say something else, too? 15:11:47:28
Kevin was just telling me something that I've been following up 15:11:52:24
on and Della has been talking to the vet today. 15:11:56:24
Yesterday, there was a story on Channel 8, I don't know if the 15:11:59:27
other channels followed it, too, about the dog whose tongue 15:12:02:16
was -- and this occurred in Pasco County. 15:12:07:10

The dog has had several surgeries. 15:12:09:24
They had to remove part of the mouth. 15:12:11:27
They removed the tongue. 15:12:13:19
I have had some wonderful new friends look into this who want to 15:12:15:12
give some donations to take care of this. 15:12:19:15
Acknowledge the vet taking care of that in Pasco. 15:12:24:24
She's doing a great job trying to do what she can. 15:12:28:03
It is a very classic example of animal cruelty. 15:12:30:28
It's amazing how people come out with help. 15:12:34:03
They may have differences of opinion on other things when it 15:12:36:18
comes to rescuing animals, just a puppy. 15:12:38:24
I think five months or something. 15:12:42:06
It's awful. 15:12:43:25
But anyway, there are a lot of people in our community 15:12:44:19
responding to that and I'm grateful to that. 15:12:50:15
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: I didn't have anything of my own. 15:12:53:13
I did have a follow-up to something Rose brought up a few weeks 15:12:56:16
back, and I just wanted to make sure that it got resolved which 15:12:59:03
was that issue of expenditure of our Council funds and, you 15:13:03:12
know, without going back into it was that resolved? 15:13:09:15
>>ROSE FERLITA: Thank you. 15:13:12:25
After you all supported it, we finally got a response and he 15:13:13:12
found a mechanism so that we would be able to do it. 15:13:16:19
What a surprise. 15:13:19:06
Thank you for bringing that up. 15:13:25:06

>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Glad that was resolved. 15:13:26:03
I have nothing else. 15:13:27:25
>>ROSE FERLITA: What is that vet's time? We can acknowledge 15:13:30:18
her? 15:13:33:06
Dr. Mendenhall. 15:13:36:00
He's a very young vet, and she has spent a great deal of time 15:13:37:25
with that animal. 15:13:41:28
That's just great, and we acknowledge her. 15:13:42:19
>>GWEN MILLER: Clerk, do you have anything? 15:13:45:15
>>CLERK: I have items to receive and file. 15:13:47:07
Including the letter from the Sunset Park homeowners 15:13:49:09
association. 15:13:52:07
>>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion, aye. 15:13:52:07
Anything else? 15:13:56:10
Anything else come before Council? 15:13:57:12
We go to the audience. 15:13:59:15
15:14:40:22