Tampa City Council
Thursday, February 2, 2006
9:00 a.m. session
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09:10:06 [Sounding gavel]
09:10:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Tampa City Council is called to order.
09:10:23 Chair will yield to Mary Alvarez.
09:10:24 >>MARY ALVAREZ: It is my pleasure to introduce Mrs.
09:10:28 Bettye Green Johnson, who is the chair of the City of
09:10:31 Tampa Black History Committee and has been a city
09:10:34 employee for 33 years.
09:10:35 Please let's stand for the invocation and stay
09:10:37 standing for the pledge of allegiance.
09:10:43 >>> Thank you, Mrs. Alvarez.
09:10:45 Good morning.
09:10:46 Thank you for the opportunity to come before council.
09:10:47 Before we have our invocation, I would like to
09:10:50 introduce our co-chairperson for the City of Tampa
09:10:53 Black History Committee, Regina Law.
09:10:57 Regina, myself and other members of the Black History
09:11:00 Committee have been working diligently to present our
09:11:02 18th annual African-American Celebration of Black
09:11:05 History, tomorrow, February 3rd, at 11 a.m. at the
09:11:09 Tampa Convention Center ballroom D.
09:11:14 Health Awareness, Your Life Depends on It.
09:11:16 In keeping with that theme we are going to venture to
09:11:19 the A.J. Farrell Middle School on Saturday, February
09:11:25 4th, from 9 a.m. to 1 p.m. Health Fair.
09:11:27 Our own City Council chair Gwen Miller will lead the
09:11:29 first lap around starting at 10 a.m.
09:11:33 These events are open to the public.
09:11:35 They are free.
09:11:35 And we hope that each and every one of you will come
09:11:38 and attend and enjoy what we have planned.
09:11:42 Also, in celebration of black history, we want to
09:11:45 invite you to the "I follow the beat of the drum" a
09:11:51 thee -- theatrical presentation, at the without walls
09:11:57 international church 2511 north Grady Avenue, Tampa.
09:12:00 They will also be honoring a living legend, living
09:12:03 history: A tribute to Sybil Barnes, a well-known
09:12:08 educator, at 5 p.m.
09:12:10 Let us pause for the invocation.
09:12:12 Most gracious father, we honor you by stopping to give
09:12:15 you praise for every good and perfect gift.
09:12:18 We thank you for what hearts have felt thus far.
09:12:23 We thank you now for the work of City Council.
09:12:24 Thank you for each member present and those not
09:12:28 We thank you for our mayor of the City of Tampa, Pam
09:12:33 Iorio, and all the constituencies in the City of
09:12:35 Tampa, and Hillsborough County.
09:12:38 We thank you now O God for being so gracious to all of
09:12:40 our men and women that are serving across Iraq and
09:12:44 anywhere all over the world.
09:12:45 Bless and keep each of them and all of the families
09:12:49 that have suffered loss.
09:12:50 We pray for they will.
09:12:51 We remember now and pray for Mrs. Coretta Scott king
09:12:57 and her passing on January 31st.
09:12:59 Bless and keep her family.
09:13:01 Bless the working of each member present for City
09:13:05 Council here today.
09:13:07 And Lord, we ask that you keep us safely and return us
09:13:10 so that we can do the work on and on and on and on.
09:13:14 We'll be careful to thank you and to praise you.
09:13:18 Please join me for the pledge of allegiance.
09:13:20 (Pledge of Allegiance).
09:13:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Roll call.
09:13:39 >>ROSE FERLITA: I don't mean to interrupt the chairman
09:13:41 but this is kind of an important announcement before
09:13:43 she calls roll.
09:13:45 Thank you for your announcement.
09:13:46 But the chairman asked me to ask you to consider this.
09:13:49 She's willing to be there for the first lap and the
09:13:52 last lap.
09:13:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Roll call.
09:14:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: (No response.)
09:14:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
09:14:08 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Here.
09:14:10 >>ROSE FERLITA: Here.
09:14:10 >>KEVIN WHITE: Here.
09:14:11 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Here.
09:14:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:14:13 At this time we need to approve the agenda.
09:14:19 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Chairman Miller, before we start, I
09:14:22 would like to send my congratulations to the City of
09:14:24 Tampa administration and for being selected the deputy
09:14:31 director for the department of business and housing
09:14:34 It's great to see that we are promoting from within.
09:14:40 And even though we will miss Sandy Cedola, because she
09:14:45 has been with us so many years, they couldn't have
09:14:48 picked a better person to be deputy director.
09:14:50 And I just want to say my congratulations to Tom.
09:14:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Say it from all of us.
09:14:58 We feel the same way that you feel.
09:15:01 >>MARY ALVAREZ: It was a great choice.
09:15:04 >>ROSE FERLITA: I agree.
09:15:05 We all agree it's a great choice.
09:15:08 Madam Chair, after department heads, and I don't know
09:15:12 that we have too many coming up, I would really like
09:15:14 to discuss briefly a public safety issue.
09:15:16 And apologize for disrupting your agenda.
09:15:19 I have a procedure that I have to go ahead to this
09:15:22 I don't know exactly how long it will last.
09:15:25 If I can say something after department heads and just
09:15:27 be very brief.
09:15:27 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Madam Chair, we had some bad news
09:15:31 this morning.
09:15:32 Captain Bill wade's son passed away from cancer.
09:15:36 He was 12 years old, apparently.
09:15:38 If we can keep them in our prayers and maybe have a
09:15:42 small moment of silence.
09:15:44 (Moment of silence)
09:15:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
09:15:53 Anything else?
09:15:54 Move approval of the agenda?
09:15:59 We need to have a motion to approve the minutes.
09:16:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We have to have the off-agenda
09:16:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay, we need to go -- we go to our --
09:16:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Hold on a second if I can.
09:16:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Go to our agenda.
09:16:18 >>ROSE FERLITA: Trying to keep us in control and out
09:16:30 of trouble.
09:16:32 Now we need a motion to approve the public comments.
09:16:47 >> So moved.
09:16:47 >> Second.
09:16:47 (Motion carried).
09:16:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
09:16:50 Do we need to do that every week?
09:16:52 Or can we ask to just shift it there as part of -- are
09:16:56 we going to try it out for awhile?
09:16:58 Is this sort of a trial period?
09:17:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes.
09:17:01 If it works successfully then we have to go through
09:17:03 the process because the clerk's office informed me
09:17:05 that it means changing doc agenda and going through a
09:17:08 major renovation.
09:17:10 >> So we are just going to try it out for awhile.
09:17:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, to see how it works.
09:17:14 >>GWEN MILLER: All right.
09:17:19 Do we have other items to remove from the agenda?
09:17:24 All right.
09:17:24 We have Sal Territo.
09:17:30 >>SAL TERRITO: I would like to make a substitution for
09:17:33 item number 8.
09:17:34 Somehow the wrong resolution and contract got attached
09:17:38 to the correct agenda sheet so I would like to make a
09:17:40 substitution, the item dealing with the aquarium.
09:17:42 The cover sheet says two years.
09:17:44 It should have been two-year.
09:17:45 Somehow we got a one-year resolution on a one-year
09:17:48 contract extension.
09:17:49 I would like to make a substitution.
09:17:51 That was number 8.
09:17:52 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor?
09:17:54 Got a second?
09:17:55 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Second.
09:17:55 (Motion carried).
09:17:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Mark Huey.
09:18:08 >>MARK HUEY: Economic development administrator.
09:18:10 I wanted to come before you this morning and request a
09:18:14 special work session of council regarding the
09:18:21 I'm doing this in the context of the discussions that
09:18:23 occurred during the rezoning hearings last Thursday
09:18:26 evening regarding matters that were before council,
09:18:31 and there was, I think, a responsible interest on
09:18:33 council's part to be more fully informed about the
09:18:36 Channel District plan, and with that in mind, I'd like
09:18:40 to go ahead before March 9th to schedule a work
09:18:44 session with council on that.
09:18:45 So you will be more fully informed about the land use
09:18:48 and regulatory recommendations that will be coming
09:18:51 before council as part of that plan.
09:18:54 And then you will be able to approach those rezonings
09:18:58 with a thorough understanding of that plan.
09:19:01 So I'd like to request a two-hour work session.
09:19:06 I know that's a good bit of time.
09:19:07 But having been through a number of briefings on the
09:19:10 plan, I can tell you that the plan is so rich, in its
09:19:15 many recommendations and analyses, that it will go by
09:19:18 very quickly.
09:19:19 I assure you you will be very engaged and have lots of
09:19:26 >>KEVIN WHITE: What restaurant do you want to hold
09:19:28 that at?
09:19:29 >>> What restaurant?
09:19:29 Your choice.
09:19:30 We'll notice it wherever you like.
09:19:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mascot.
09:19:38 I was going to suggest Tuesday or Wednesday morning at
09:19:41 >>GWEN MILLER: It's Tuesday or Wednesday.
09:19:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Either the 15th or the
09:19:47 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I think the 22nd would work for
09:19:50 me, at, say, 8:30, 9:00.
09:19:54 Is that too early for you?
09:19:56 >>KEVIN WHITE: I can't do Tuesdays.
09:19:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It's a Wednesday.
09:20:01 What about Monday?
09:20:02 >>KEVIN WHITE: I don't have my calendar.
09:20:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Did we take a vote whether we
09:20:10 should do it at noon or 8:30?
09:20:12 Can we start with that?
09:20:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
09:20:13 >>CHAIRMAN: We are going to vote on two times.
09:20:17 Noon or 8:30?
09:20:19 First will be 8:30.
09:20:20 All in favor of 8:30.
09:20:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Wait a minute.
09:20:23 What about people who are either?
09:20:26 >>GWEN MILLER: Either.
09:20:33 Those in favor of 8:30 raise your hand.
09:20:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: This is a vote --
09:20:41 >>KEVIN WHITE: Between the times now?
09:20:43 >>GWEN MILLER: 12 noon or 8:30.
09:20:45 >>MARY ALVAREZ: We wouldn't do 12.
09:20:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Either 8:30 --
09:20:53 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I'm voting for 8:30.
09:20:54 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of 8:30.
09:20:56 8:30 people raise your hand.
09:20:58 One, two.
09:20:59 >>ROSE FERLITA: Anyone, anyone?
09:21:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Either.
09:21:04 >>GWEN MILLER: 12 noon.
09:21:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I thought you said noon was bet
09:21:12 arear for you, Rose.
09:21:13 >>ROSE FERLITA: Who?
09:21:15 You just got here.
09:21:16 I'm kidding.
09:21:17 But, you know, I just can't -- it's hard for me to
09:21:20 leave my store and get somebody to help.
09:21:22 So it doesn't make any difference F.noon is better for
09:21:26 more then noon.
09:21:27 >>GWEN MILLER: 8:30.
09:21:28 >>ROSE FERLITA: There are two 1:30s and one noon and
09:21:33 nobody else voted.
09:21:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It doesn't matter.
09:21:40 At 8:30 on a Wednesday, I believe it's the 22nd.
09:21:43 >>ROSE FERLITA: Does it have to be that day?
09:21:47 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Does Monday the 20th work for
09:21:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Let's get that in a motion.
09:21:55 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I make a motion we meet 8:30 a
09:21:58 >>ROSE FERLITA: Given it's not a conflict.
09:22:01 Does everybody have their calendar up here?
09:22:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: A reminder per council rules a
09:22:06 workshop requires a quorum.
09:22:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Then it's a special discussion
09:22:15 >>ROSE FERLITA: See what you started?
09:22:17 >>MARK HUEY: Yes, I got you off to a bad start.
09:22:19 >>ROSE FERLITA: This was supposed to be a short
09:22:21 >>GWEN MILLER: This is going to be a special
09:22:23 discussion, not a workshop.
09:22:24 >>ROSE FERLITA: Can we all look at our calendars and
09:22:28 come up with a determination right after lunch?
09:22:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's a great idea.
09:22:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Huey, we'll get back with you.
09:22:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: While we are at it we need to pick
09:22:40 a time for a special discussion meeting on chapter 27.
09:22:44 We had a meeting about a week ago, we were unable to
09:22:47 finish all the proposed changes.
09:22:48 So I'd like council members to look at Monday would
09:22:53 like to discuss chapter 27.
09:22:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Everybody look at their calendar and
09:22:57 bring it back after lunch.
09:22:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think I am going to propose a
09:23:01 lunch on a Thursday, because we are already here,
09:23:04 because of council.
09:23:05 So we can just go down to the Mascotte room and work
09:23:08 on 27.
09:23:09 We did that one day.
09:23:14 There will be food.
09:23:18 >>ROSE FERLITA: Mr. White does not like working
09:23:20 lunches, Mrs. Saul-Sena.
09:23:22 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Well, whoever can make it.
09:23:23 >>GWEN MILLER: We are going to bring that back after
09:23:26 Everybody look at your calendars.
09:23:28 And come up with a date for the workshop on
09:23:30 Channelside and for the chapter 27.
09:23:32 >>MARY ALVAREZ: We are all busy and we all need to
09:23:35 make sacrifices.
09:23:36 >>ROSE FERLITA: I have a calendar.
09:23:43 What's the date?
09:23:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Monday.
09:23:47 The 20th.
09:23:48 >>ROSE FERLITA: Of February?
09:23:50 That's fine.
09:23:53 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Special discussion meeting on Monday,
09:23:55 February 20th at 8:30.
09:23:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:23:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Question on the motion?
09:24:01 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
09:24:03 Opposed, Nay.
09:24:03 >>ROSE FERLITA: Ms. Saul-Sena --
09:24:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Huey, Monday the 20th at 8:30.
09:24:10 Can we do chapter 27, Ms. Ferlita?
09:24:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm looking at this calendar.
09:24:19 >>MARY ALVAREZ: It's amazing.
09:24:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I don't want to do it on Thursday.
09:24:25 We have every Thursday for the rest of the month, we
09:24:27 have morning meetings and night meetings.
09:24:29 And I just can't.
09:24:34 >>ROSE FERLITA: Every Thursday morning for the rest of
09:24:36 your life.
09:24:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would suggest then February
09:24:39 8th at -- a whole other topic, a whole other level
09:24:47 of complexity.
09:24:49 Chapter 26.
09:24:52 >>MARY ALVAREZ: We have special discussion on bridges
09:24:53 at 9:00 on Wednesday, the 8th.
09:24:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay.
09:25:01 Think we should do it separately?
09:25:03 27 is a whole other thing but let's make it later.
09:25:06 I'll get back to you guys.
09:25:08 >>GWEN MILLER: We'll come back to that.
09:25:09 Mr. Shelby, you're on.
09:25:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you, council.
09:25:12 I had an opportunity to speak with council member
09:25:14 Ferlita the maker of the motion with regard to item
09:25:17 number 4.
09:25:18 I have a resolution prepared.
09:25:20 However, I had an opportunity to speak to Janett Lewis
09:25:24 Fenton, and Mr. Smith, and -- Darrell Smith and David
09:25:28 Smith, to be able to talk with the administration more
09:25:34 about this.
09:25:34 We are just asking for a one-week continuance to be
09:25:37 able to bring it back to you next week.
09:25:38 >>MARY ALVAREZ: So moved.
09:25:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:25:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Did you hear that?
09:25:42 >>ROSE FERLITA: No.
09:25:43 Thank you, what?
09:25:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Number 4.
09:25:49 >>ROSE FERLITA: Based on what Mr. Shelby explained to
09:25:51 me that's no problem for a week, yeah.
09:25:55 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Mr. Shelby, would you make sure you
09:25:57 brief us all before next Thursday about what we are
09:25:59 being asked to tell the legislature we don't want them
09:26:02 to do?
09:26:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Very much so.
09:26:05 I have had opportunity to speak with Ms. Fenton about
09:26:08 And the administration is going to be gathering
09:26:10 She's asked for them to return comments by Monday.
09:26:13 So we'll have a greater understanding and I certainly
09:26:15 will do that.
09:26:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And I believe the Florida League of
09:26:20 Cities has taken a position on this.
09:26:23 And that would be good to share.
09:26:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: My understanding is the Florida
09:26:26 League of Cities has not and wanted to remain neutral.
09:26:29 That was my understanding.
09:26:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's interesting.
09:26:32 >>ROSE FERLITA: In reference to Mr. Harrison's concern
09:26:35 about being briefed, because of some sign committee
09:26:37 issues so we wouldn't be hindered, it is my
09:26:40 understanding that there are other issues that Janett
09:26:43 Fenton wants to talk to us about and we have to, I
09:26:46 guess, look at the position of the administration.
09:26:48 So it really changes the whole issue whether or not we
09:26:50 want to take a position -- not take a position but we
09:26:54 just need to know what they are doing so hopefully we
09:26:57 will be, you know, uniform in what we are looking at
09:27:00 in terms of the legislature.
09:27:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Also just a reminder in speaking with
09:27:04 the legal department, there are concerns of the fact
09:27:08 that we are still in litigation with the billboard
09:27:08 industry, and also the fact that we have some
09:27:10 agreements that are going to be expiring so whatever
09:27:14 effect that has has to be taken into account.
09:27:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Perhaps as part of this discussion
09:27:19 there could be a very brief summation whereof we are.
09:27:22 Are we close to closure?
09:27:23 Are we a year away?
09:27:25 Where are we in these other things?
09:27:29 Because it feels like we have been doing this for a
09:27:31 very long time.
09:27:32 So I just wondered.
09:27:33 I'd like some, you know, reassurance that there is a
09:27:36 time line and that there is an end in sight.
09:27:42 >>MARTIN SHELBY: With litigation?
09:27:46 May I suggest you have that reduced to writing with
09:27:51 Mr. Smith.
09:27:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Need a motion to approve the agenda.
09:27:54 >> So moved.
09:27:55 >> Second.
09:27:55 (Motion carried).
09:27:56 >>GWEN MILLER: We now go to our public comments.
09:27:58 Anyone in the public would like to speak on any item
09:28:01 on the agenda not set for a public hearing may come
09:28:03 speak now.
09:28:18 >>MOSES KNOTT, JR.: Good morning, ladies and
09:28:21 My name is Moses Knott, Jr., I reside at 2902 East
09:28:25 Ellicott street.
09:28:26 And I thank God for his grace and his mercy.
09:28:29 Especially -- Satan hate our peoples like me.
09:28:39 First left my reading glasses home.
09:28:41 I don't know what's on this agenda.
09:28:42 Then you all talk about bring the comment up there
09:28:45 And I'm totally against this.
09:28:47 Because when you all speak on unfinished business
09:28:50 things, and other things, you all talk about, by right
09:28:57 that gives us people to speak about anything that you
09:28:59 all talk about or discuss anything before the hearing.
09:29:03 But this morning when I heard that, I said, first
09:29:06 thing, leave my glasses and now you all brought this
09:29:11 But sister chair --
09:29:15 >> Sister chair.
09:29:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Go ahead, Mr. Knott.
09:29:20 MOSES KNOTT,: JR. I really want to talk about prayer
09:29:25 this morning and black history.
09:29:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We're listening.
09:29:36 >>> Every year at this time I get depressed out,
09:29:38 stoned out, because I come to this podium, I represent
09:29:42 poor people.
09:29:42 I tell poor people they got nothing in this world that
09:29:45 they really can lean on except vote and prayer.
09:29:53 Dr. Martin Luther King -- I can talk about prayer but
09:29:58 I can't talk about Dr. Martin Luther King.
09:30:01 The black people make me ashamed today. They don't
09:30:05 represent nothing.
09:30:05 Black history, make a whole lot of money celebrating,
09:30:10 4th of July, Christmas or something, that they
09:30:12 don't -- nothing Dr. Martin Luther King stood for they
09:30:17 First was nonviolence.
09:30:19 And they don't represent nonviolence.
09:30:22 People today try to kill you.
09:30:26 Turning to the prayer thing.
09:30:27 The man -- we prayed over everything.
09:30:34 And then said love Thy neighbor.
09:30:37 Said love your brother and neighbor. The Bible said
09:30:40 love your enable.
09:30:42 Today they hate their neighbors, hate their brother.
09:30:45 But black history, I hate every year when they come
09:30:48 because black people today make me ashamed.
09:30:51 Where I come from, we had prayer and we was together.
09:30:56 If you did something to one black person, like
09:31:02 Mexicans, the whole family stick together.
09:31:04 You get one, you get the whole crowd.
09:31:06 But black people were that way.
09:31:09 If your house burned down we helped build another
09:31:12 Now today you get sick and die they come and get your
09:31:17 I'm going to let that ride.
09:31:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Knott?
09:31:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just to remind you and I guess the
09:31:27 other people in the audience, the agenda public
09:31:30 comment is meant as your opportunity early on to give
09:31:35 council your input and allow them to take it under
09:31:40 You still have an opportunity under general public
09:31:42 comment at the end of the meeting to comment on
09:31:44 anything for which you have three minutes and you can
09:31:46 raise any issues that you heard that was raised during
09:31:50 So you have an opportunity at the end of the meeting
09:31:51 to comment on what you heard, whereas the agendaed
09:31:53 public comment allows you early on to say what you
09:31:56 need to say to council and then get on with the
09:31:58 business of the day.
09:31:58 So I appreciate you doing that.
09:32:01 >>> After they cut the TV off.
09:32:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone else in the public like
09:32:05 to speak?
09:32:07 We go to our unfinished business, item number 1.
09:32:12 We need to receive and file.
09:32:16 We have a motion and second to receive.
09:32:19 (Motion carried).
09:32:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think I was the person who
09:32:25 requested this.
09:32:27 And I just wish two things.
09:32:31 Number one, I wish the school board Godspeed in
09:32:35 selling this so that somebody will secure it.
09:32:36 And in the meantime, I look forward to city staff --
09:32:45 this is kind of in relation, too, sort of the same
09:32:49 thing -- working both with the school system and with
09:32:53 Hillsborough County with whom we used to not pursue
09:32:59 their participation in our city code in terms of
09:33:02 pursuing it.
09:33:03 I think it's appropriate for every structure in the
09:33:06 City of Tampa, including city structures, and county
09:33:09 structures, and school structures, as well as private
09:33:12 individual structures, to all have to address our
09:33:16 Our code is not overly strenuous.
09:33:17 It says if you have a roof it shouldn't leak.
09:33:19 If you have windows they shouldn't be broken.
09:33:21 I think that those are sort of minimal standards that
09:33:25 we should all live by.
09:33:26 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 2.
09:33:28 Mrs. Ferlita.
09:33:28 >>ROSE FERLITA: Madam Chairman, to that same topic, I
09:33:32 think earlier last month we talked about code
09:33:36 enforcement and where the school board and school
09:33:38 system sits in that.
09:33:39 It's my understanding what we were simply doing -- and
09:33:42 I supported it based on that understanding -- that we
09:33:45 were going to ask the administration what their
09:33:47 position was.
09:33:47 Don't think that, unless Mr. Smith or Mr. Shelby want
09:33:50 to correct me -- I don't think we can enforce any kind
09:33:53 of code enforcement guidelines on the school board.
09:33:58 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Ms. Martina is here to address that,
09:34:04 item number 2.
09:34:05 >>ROSE FERLITA: I interpreted it to just be a friendly
09:34:08 suggestion but maybe we need some clarification so we
09:34:10 can move forward.
09:34:11 >>GWEN MILLER: We'll go to item number 2.
09:34:14 Mr. Smith is going to do it.
09:34:19 >>DAVID SMITH: Good morning.
09:34:23 Sectionally Mrs. Ferlita is correct in summarizing the
09:34:27 legal status.
09:34:28 Although we can provide citations, in state property,
09:34:32 you can't foreclose against state property any more
09:34:34 than against city property but we can provide
09:34:38 But what I recommend we do, I have talked to Mr.
09:34:40 Gonzalez who represent it is school board.
09:34:42 They will cooperate with us and come into conformance.
09:34:46 And I think that we don't have a long history of them
09:34:48 not doing that.
09:34:49 So I think as long as we continue to get cooperation
09:34:51 from them, and with them, I think that would be an
09:34:54 adequate solution to the problem.
09:34:59 So hopefully that's -- basically your summary was
09:35:03 correct is what I was saying.
09:35:04 Thank you.
09:35:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Shelby, number 4.
09:35:10 Number 3.
09:35:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Tampa City Council attorney.
09:35:30 I have been asked to speak on City Council being
09:35:33 removed from the appellate processor other options.
09:35:36 I am here to make a brief presentation within my
09:35:38 allotted time and to seek future direction if council
09:35:41 wishes to proceed.
09:35:43 Council traditionally has retained the role of appeals
09:35:49 board with regard to items that come to it.
09:35:54 From, let's say, the Variance Review Board, A.R.C. and
09:36:01 the HPC, et cetera.
09:36:03 I will share with you that my investigation had shown
09:36:06 that the Board of County Commissioners of Hillsborough
09:36:09 County does not do that.
09:36:11 Board of County Commissioners of Pinellas County do
09:36:13 not do that.
09:36:16 In Hillsborough County, there are three land use
09:36:19 hearing officers who here variances, vested uses,
09:36:24 special uses, beer and wines, what we call wet
09:36:29 If those are appealed, they are appealed to the land
09:36:32 use appeals board, which is a board that is presently
09:36:37 appointed by the Board of County Commissioners, and
09:36:40 they may be from what I understand from talking to the
09:36:43 assistant county attorney reconnaissance substituted
09:36:45 the way they choose that board.
09:36:46 But upon a finding of that board, the only basis for
09:36:51 appeal is to file in circuit court for writ of
09:36:55 It does not go to the Board of County Commissioners.
09:36:59 Likewise, in Pinellas County, the Pinellas County has
09:37:04 a citizens board of adjustment.
09:37:07 And again, upon a finding of the citizens board of
09:37:10 adjustment, that is appealed to circuit court on a
09:37:13 writ of certiorari.
09:37:15 And by way of update, I should remind council that it
09:37:18 has amended its appeals process.
09:37:21 If you recall, there was a court decision that
09:37:23 required a de novo hearing which slowed down the
09:37:26 appeals process, because council ended up being the
09:37:29 finder of fact and heard the whole appeal.
09:37:33 The new process changes the procedures as more
09:37:36 requirements for the purposes of appeal.
09:37:39 And finally, sets a certiorari standard, which really
09:37:42 means that you determine whether the lower board
09:37:49 followed the essential requirements of law, and that
09:37:52 due process was afforded.
09:37:55 Two things.
09:37:56 Number one, in talking with Sal Territo, assistant
09:38:01 city attorney, he's had experience in Lee County and
09:38:05 maybe he can share some insights into that.
09:38:08 The land use hearing officers by the way in
09:38:10 Hillsborough County, I didn't find the result but it
09:38:12 was just on the agenda yesterday, they have three
09:38:15 hearing officers.
09:38:17 I believe they allotted $50,000 per hearing officer in
09:38:19 their budget.
09:38:20 And they had a budget amendment to increase that to
09:38:23 $75,000 because of the caseload.
09:38:26 I should also point out that the city's water
09:38:32 department brings violations to a hearing officer, and
09:38:37 that's handled by David Shobe, the municipal
09:38:42 prosecutor, and the costs range from what I hear of
09:38:45 $60 an hour for a hearing officer up to, I believe,
09:38:47 $125 an hour.
09:38:49 But two things that I would like to bring to council's
09:38:53 Mr. Smith, maybe you wanted to share your opinion with
09:38:58 regard to where council should go on this, and maybe
09:39:00 Mr. Territo will share some insights into the officer
09:39:04 process so you get a first-hand experience.
09:39:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can I ask a question first?
09:39:11 What I didn't hear at the beginning of your
09:39:13 presentation, maybe because you weren't asked to do
09:39:17 this, was to quantify the problem.
09:39:22 In other words, if there's some perceived problem that
09:39:25 we spend too much time doing appeal hearings, I think
09:39:28 that should be quantified.
09:39:30 Because, frankly, my recollection is when I first came
09:39:34 on council three years ago, we had quite a few appeal
09:39:38 hearings, and some council members were getting
09:39:41 aggravated by the amount of time we were spending on
09:39:43 In recent years, in this past year, I think that's
09:39:47 tapered off quite a bit, I don't recall hardly, you
09:39:50 know, us hardly spending any time on appeal hearings.
09:39:54 So have you looked at quantifying, you know, how many
09:39:59 appeal hearings we have had, and how much time they
09:40:02 have taken or anything like that?
09:40:03 Has that been part of this analysis?
09:40:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: No.
09:40:07 Specifically I did not do that.
09:40:08 I was not asked to do that.
09:40:10 Anecdotally I will share with you, and maybe Mr. Smith
09:40:13 would like to speak to this, council spends quite a
09:40:17 deal of its time in quasi-judicial matters, as opposed
09:40:21 to, let's say, legislative matters.
09:40:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But that includes our zonings.
09:40:27 Our zonings are quasi-judicial.
09:40:30 And our vacatings are quasi-judicial.
09:40:33 And I don't know what else is quasi-judicial that
09:40:36 we're talking about.
09:40:37 But those are the two big things we do.
09:40:39 And I think that's what the community expects us to
09:40:41 do, are the zonings.
09:40:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Well, with regard to individual
09:40:46 parcels, land rezonings, yes.
09:40:48 I should also point out that other boards do not hear
09:40:51 things like wet zonings, or they have the citizens
09:40:56 board of adjustment, or the land use hearing officers
09:40:58 make recommendations on things that have to come to
09:41:01 council for an ordinance.
09:41:02 But I believe that would ab good segue for Mr. Smith
09:41:06 to share his insight.
09:41:09 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Mr. Shelby, before you get started,
09:41:11 you mentioned the counties.
09:41:12 But did you look into the cities?
09:41:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes.
09:41:16 Briefly, the city of St. Petersburg has a board of
09:41:24 The board of adjustment hears -- it's consisting of
09:41:28 nine persons appointed by the mayor, confirmed by City
09:41:30 Council, meets once a month.
09:41:32 It hears appeals to interpretations made by the city
09:41:37 zoning official which I guess would be what we call
09:41:39 our S-1s, and they also hear variances to the city's
09:41:45 zoning ordinance.
09:41:46 The city of St. Petersburg also has what it calls an
09:41:49 environmental development commission.
09:41:52 And the environmental development commission hears
09:41:54 special exception uses, it reviews site plans, lot
09:41:59 line adjustments, plots, also makes recommendations
09:42:02 for vacations, and so it is unusual -- and I look back
09:42:10 at my work that I did for council in I guess 2004 with
09:42:14 regard to wet zonings.
09:42:16 Council spends time granting individual wet zonings.
09:42:18 And I looked, as I recall, at Jacksonville and several
09:42:23 other cities that. Is unusual that an elected board
09:42:25 spends its time in those matters.
09:42:27 So the way this council has -- and let me just share
09:42:34 another insight.
09:42:35 After our last discussion, I had an opportunity to
09:42:37 speak with Margaret Vizzi, and what she shared with me
09:42:40 historically is that it was Tampa City Council's
09:42:48 choice to get involved in this process.
09:42:51 And the way she had described to me was the
09:42:53 neighborhoods were very much concerned about having
09:42:55 that right.
09:42:56 So, again, it's a major policy discussion, but it's
09:43:00 also a matter of allocation of time of council's
09:43:04 ability to get all its work done.
09:43:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think that the issue underscored
09:43:10 by Ms. Vizzi, of the public having an opportunity to
09:43:14 weigh in, I think that's really central to this whole
09:43:17 My constituents really want to have the opportunity to
09:43:21 weigh in on things that they consider important.
09:43:24 And when things appear before council, they have that
09:43:28 It wasn't clear from your description of what other
09:43:31 folks had done whether or not there is an opportunity
09:43:33 for the public, the neighborhoods, to participate in
09:43:36 the process.
09:43:37 And I think that's really germane to our whole
09:43:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The answer is that they do.
09:43:43 They are public hearings.
09:43:44 They are publicly noticed.
09:43:45 Even though council is not involved, the boards are
09:43:48 still quasi-judicial boards.
09:43:50 They still have to follow the same rules.
09:43:52 And they are still subject to the same amount of
09:43:55 public comment.
09:43:56 You still have the same format similarly to the way
09:44:00 council has it.
09:44:00 >>ROSE FERLITA: Basically the same opinion, Mr.
09:44:05 Shelby, and I thank you for making that data
09:44:07 available, those comparisons.
09:44:09 But regardless of what other municipalities do and
09:44:13 what the county does, I still think that active
09:44:18 neighborhood leaders are used to being able to come
09:44:20 here and listen to us weigh in on these appeals.
09:44:25 It's not something that -- it almost looks to me like
09:44:27 it's something that is given and taken away.
09:44:29 I know it takes longer.
09:44:30 I think Mr. Dingfelder is right, there are not that
09:44:33 many compared to other times.
09:44:35 And I know this discussion has come up every so often
09:44:38 since 1999.
09:44:39 But I think that perception is something that we don't
09:44:43 want to work against us.
09:44:44 And if the public feels that this board should
09:44:47 continue doing what they are doing regardless of the
09:44:49 amount of time that it takes, then I think that's
09:44:51 where we should stay.
09:44:52 And that's my opinion.
09:44:53 I'm weighing in on that.
09:44:55 That's what we have done.
09:44:56 Although the procedure is different in Hillsborough
09:44:57 County, this is how we have done it.
09:44:59 And I think neighborhoods like that opportunity.
09:45:02 Yes, it's a little more time, and a little more time
09:45:06 consumption, but that's my opinion.
09:45:07 Ultimately at the end of the day when this council has
09:45:09 to weigh in on that, I think we ought to continue
09:45:11 doing what we are doing and give the neighborhoods the
09:45:13 opportunity to come and talk to us about that.
09:45:16 That's just one council member's opinion.
09:45:18 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to hear from Mr. Smith now.
09:45:22 >>DAVID SMITH: Good morning.
09:45:24 David Smith again.
09:45:26 (Bell sounds).
09:45:26 Oh, thank you.
09:45:30 First, I need to make it clear that I am giving you my
09:45:33 opinion as a city attorney.
09:45:35 Sometimes there's a confusion as to when I stand up
09:45:37 here, you sometimes presuppose I speak for the
09:45:42 I am not speaking for the administration on this
09:45:44 I'm speaking to you as the city attorney and as your
09:45:47 lawyer, and my view is this.
09:45:51 And you need to understand, lawyers like neat
09:45:54 We like succinct presentations, evidence, clarity,
09:45:59 defensible cases.
09:46:00 The political process is a little less tidy.
09:46:03 That doesn't mean the process shouldn't prevail.
09:46:08 That's your decision.
09:46:09 One of the reasons why I like hearing masters or
09:46:11 hearing officers in certain cases is when we are
09:46:15 dealing with what I'd call more ministerial matters,
09:46:19 and it's hard to say when it is ministerial in the
09:46:22 eyes of others -- it makes for a process that gives us
09:46:26 that tidy result, gives us the more defensible
09:46:32 So one of the reasons I would see on the scale in
09:46:35 favor of it is those aspects, clear, more defensible
09:46:43 Hearing officers are almost always lawyers.
09:46:46 They understand the rules of evidence.
09:46:47 I know you got two lawyers on your panel but you don't
09:46:50 have seven, although sometimes I wonder.
09:46:51 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Thank you.
09:46:53 >>DAVID SMITH: That's one of the reasons why I see
09:46:56 this beneficial particularly in the areas that may not
09:46:58 be so significant to the community and to you.
09:47:03 The other argument for it is that I'm not sure that
09:47:08 this body spends as much time on its legislative
09:47:11 function as you and I would like to see it.
09:47:16 Our ordinance process seems to be contracted.
09:47:19 What used to happen in the city, as I understand it,
09:47:22 is we would have workshops here.
09:47:24 It would be very active workshops.
09:47:26 They would maybe take an hour or so.
09:47:28 There would be a lot of back and forth on ordinances.
09:47:31 Once we got through that process, you would -- from my
09:47:35 direction to my office in terms of how the ordinance
09:47:37 should be shaped.
09:47:40 That's not happening as much.
09:47:41 I get calls from some of you with some very good ideas
09:47:44 and very good suggestions.
09:47:45 But we don't have as much of a colloquy and you don't
09:47:48 get to hear your other members and they are using
09:47:50 their reasons, which I think sometimes is very
09:47:53 So another reason to consider, at least, in possibly
09:47:58 some limited areas, is to allow the system more time
09:48:03 on your legislative function, so that we don't have
09:48:05 these workshops in the Mascotte room, which some of
09:48:08 you cannot make because of your schedules, but we have
09:48:11 some of the workshops here, and we have a lot more
09:48:14 participation in your legislative function.
09:48:16 So those are the two reasons I see in favor of it.
09:48:18 I understand the reasons why you may not want to
09:48:21 consider it.
09:48:22 And those are obviously certainly for you to balance,
09:48:25 not for me to balance.
09:48:27 Just because I like neat and tidy processes doesn't
09:48:30 mean you'll go there.
09:48:32 But those are the reasons I think it could be
09:48:35 And I think it would be an excellent idea, if you
09:48:37 don't want to go there, there's no sense spending more
09:48:40 time on it.
09:48:41 But if you want to look at the areas, potential areas
09:48:43 to consider, we could come back to you with a list of
09:48:47 potential areas.
09:48:48 If it wet zonings, whatever it may be.
09:48:51 And you may want to say, you know, that is something
09:48:54 given our time schedule, et cetera, we think is
09:48:56 appropriate to not have to hear in this forum, or
09:49:01 there may be no such issue from your perspective.
09:49:05 Anyway, that's my opinion.
09:49:07 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I was just going to say, in answer to
09:49:11 Ms. Ferlita, where she says that the neighborhoods
09:49:14 like to weigh in on these appellate -- and they can do
09:49:19 the same thing with a hearing master.
09:49:20 >>DAVID SMITH: It is a hearing process.
09:49:23 Notice will have to be provided.
09:49:24 They will be heard, albeit by a hearing officer, not
09:49:27 by you, but heard by a hearing officer.
09:49:29 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Frank lyrics I could care one way or
09:49:33 another, because after March 31st, 2007, at
09:49:38 11:59 p.m., I will be history.
09:49:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Are you going somewhere?
09:49:45 >>MARY ALVAREZ: But it's something that maybe the next
09:49:47 council should look into.
09:49:50 Three of us are going to be leaving.
09:49:52 And there's no question about that.
09:49:54 I don't know about the others.
09:49:55 But, you know, I think that the next council should
09:50:00 certainly take it up.
09:50:03 And I think there's valid points to this.
09:50:06 We are not lawyers.
09:50:07 I'm not a lawyer.
09:50:08 I don't profess to be a lawyer.
09:50:10 And if I was, I'd be practicing law without a license.
09:50:14 So I think it's worth exploring.
09:50:20 And I don't know how my council members feel.
09:50:23 But if you could give us a list or something that we
09:50:27 could look into, that might be something beneficial
09:50:32 for the next council to see.
09:50:35 So we'll leave that up to you.
09:50:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: A couple of things.
09:50:46 In regard to the comments that Rose made, I agree
09:50:51 I think what the neighborhoods are saying is they
09:50:53 don't want to just give input into the process.
09:50:56 I think they like to give input to elected officials
09:50:59 in the process.
09:51:00 And especially in the rezonings, without a doubt.
09:51:07 Sometimes in the wet zonings, because sometimes the
09:51:10 neighborhoods do come out strong on the wet zonings,
09:51:12 and it does impact them.
09:51:14 Now, with that said, I think that there could be an
09:51:17 opportunity on the wet zonings.
09:51:19 Mr. Shelby, I think if we consider the hearing officer
09:51:23 for the wet zonings -- and obviously the wet zonings
09:51:26 are, you know, today we have five or six second
09:51:29 readings on the wet zonings, you know.
09:51:31 That sort of thing.
09:51:32 But if we consider the change on the wet zonings, we
09:51:36 can possibly look at giving the hearing officer the
09:51:39 first hearing on the wet zonings, because we can't
09:51:43 delegate that second hearing anyway, I don't think,
09:51:45 because it's a zoning.
09:51:46 Isn't that correct?
09:51:48 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Unless -- and I had discussion with
09:51:49 Mr. Smith about this -- unless when we discuss -- this
09:51:53 is a good segue to Mr. Smith's comments.
09:51:55 We have been talking about amendments to chapter 3.
09:51:58 And that is somewhat of a time consuming process, and
09:52:02 that is the kind of thing where the staff would ask
09:52:04 for direction from council before it goes and drafts
09:52:07 an ordinance.
09:52:09 So those will be the kind of things where you would
09:52:11 consider perhaps amending wet zonings through a
09:52:14 special use.
09:52:14 And it would be done administratively, perhaps.
09:52:16 And if somebody wants to appeal it --
09:52:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But as it is today --
09:52:23 >>> It goes to council.
09:52:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Council needs to at least hear it.
09:52:27 I thought it's state law we can't delegate a zoning
09:52:30 to -- we can delegate the first reading perhaps, but
09:52:34 not the second reading.
09:52:35 >>DAVID SMITH: Mr. Dingfelder, you're corrected with
09:52:38 respect to your statement of the law, but the view is
09:52:41 wet zonings are not called wet zonings, they are not
09:52:44 technically -- under 166.
09:52:47 But the reason you do have to have the second hearing
09:52:49 now is it's an ordinance.
09:52:50 So unless we go to a special use approach, which is
09:52:53 what happens in many other jurisdictions, and which is
09:52:55 one thing we are looking at as a legal department to
09:52:58 suggest to you, a special use approach, then the
09:53:01 initial determination would be made by someone like a
09:53:03 Gloria Moreda or Thom Snelling, although Thom, I don't
09:53:07 know what he's doing now.
09:53:09 And then the appeal would be for the hearing officer
09:53:11 if you go to a hearing officer.
09:53:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: See, way would suggest is leave it
09:53:16 alone as a wet zoning, leave it as a two-step process,
09:53:21 but if we want to get away from first hearing on the
09:53:23 wet zoning, we could have a hearing master do the
09:53:26 first hearing, with the recommendation to us.
09:53:29 That way there could be public input in the first
09:53:32 hearing process but it wouldn't necessarily be us.
09:53:34 But then if it's a controversial one, on second
09:53:37 hearing it would come to us.
09:53:39 Most of the second readings would just be perfunctory
09:53:43 because there's no objection.
09:53:44 But on second reading there could be an opportunity
09:53:45 for the public to give us input.
09:53:47 If they give us their input and we have to tweak the
09:53:50 ordinance, it might have to go back to first reading
09:53:52 again or something like that.
09:53:54 I wouldn't have a big problem with that on wet
09:53:56 zonings, if council has a desire to streamline
09:54:00 something, I think that would be a potential area to
09:54:03 do it.
09:54:03 I would -- any of the other ones, I would have a big
09:54:07 problem with.
09:54:10 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I think that Mr. Smith made a very,
09:54:18 very important observation, which I listened to in the
09:54:22 back room.
09:54:23 We don't spend enough time on the things that we are
09:54:27 really supposed to do under our charter.
09:54:29 And we spend a little bit too much time on things that
09:54:32 are probably outside of our purview.
09:54:36 I think that that is -- and he didn't say it that
09:54:40 But I think that that is a good point.
09:54:43 We have workshops in the Mascotte room from now until
09:54:49 eternity on different things.
09:54:51 And we just simply cannot all attend those.
09:54:55 And that means that some of us are left without the
09:55:00 ability to weigh in on those things, when if we -- if
09:55:05 we would say instead of taking an hour and having two
09:55:08 hours, we just set two-hour workshop, special
09:55:12 discussion workshop, on something that's very
09:55:14 important to us, but I think that we could also ask
09:55:20 that we have these discussions on Thursdays when we
09:55:23 are supposed to have these discussions, and we bring
09:55:26 them down to instead of two hours, bring them down to
09:55:30 a half an hour, present things in writing, brief
09:55:34 council members beforehand on these sorts of things,
09:55:37 because I can't come to every -- now, I'm here on
09:55:42 Thursdays, and because of the MPO and the other boards
09:55:45 that I serve on, my other colleagues serve on
09:55:47 different things, we are getting to the point where we
09:55:49 are spending an inordinate amount of time discussing
09:55:52 things outside of our Thursday meetings.
09:55:55 And I don't think that's good.
09:55:59 Another example is the budget.
09:56:02 Another major function that this board has is the
09:56:07 How does our budget process work?
09:56:09 We start getting briefed over the summertime about
09:56:11 what the priorities of the administration are, and
09:56:14 they have meetings with us, and ask us what our
09:56:16 priorities are.
09:56:17 But we don't play a very active role in that.
09:56:19 We get the budget, and we vote on it and typically we
09:56:23 spend no more than an hour in public hearings on a
09:56:27 $680 million budget for the city.
09:56:29 So I think that we ought to take a more active role in
09:56:33 On our quasi-judicial matters such as rezonings,
09:56:37 obviously that's part of our role.
09:56:39 And I think on wet zonings the same thing.
09:56:41 I think wet zonings often take on a very personal, a
09:56:48 very meaningful role in the neighborhoods, and don't
09:56:52 think that we should give up that.
09:56:54 However, we were talking about appeals.
09:56:57 That's not a quasi-judicial role that we're sitting
09:57:00 That's a judicial role that we are sitting in.
09:57:02 We are being asked to weigh whether or not what was
09:57:05 done below us was done properly.
09:57:10 And we are being asked to use legal standards to judge
09:57:13 that by.
09:57:15 And I don't think that is the proper role for this
09:57:19 And I know that that means that sometimes the
09:57:22 neighborhoods, if they feel strongly about an
09:57:23 appellate issue, are not going to be able to come down
09:57:27 and lobby us.
09:57:28 They'll still have their chance to weigh in, and
09:57:30 whatever the process is, but it will be a fairer
09:57:33 process, because it is judged on legal standards
09:57:37 rather than political standards.
09:57:40 And you cannot separate -- when we are sitting up here
09:57:44 whether you say we are sitting here in a judicial role
09:57:46 or a nonjudicial role, we are sitting here in a
09:57:49 political role.
09:57:50 And I don't think that that gives the appellants, the
09:57:55 people who have lost, at the lower level and they are
09:58:00 coming up here, don't think that necessarily serves
09:58:02 their purposes.
09:58:05 So Mr. Dingfelder is correct, we don't spend a lot of
09:58:09 time on it.
09:58:10 That's not why this has come up again.
09:58:12 I just think that it's not in the grand scheme of the
09:58:16 things that we're supposed to do, I don't think that's
09:58:18 a major role that we serve.
09:58:21 And I think that we ought to start focusing on the
09:58:23 things that we are supposed to do and get away from
09:58:26 the things that we are not necessarily supposed to do.
09:58:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Any questions?
09:58:35 Ms. Alvarez?
09:58:36 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Mr. Harrison, I agree with you
09:58:40 I have from the beginning.
09:58:41 And I believe we were talking about the appellate
09:58:43 review process, not wet zonings or other things.
09:58:48 Our time is valuable, just as valuable as anybody
09:58:50 else's, like he says we are on a lot of boards.
09:58:55 We do a lot of stuff.
09:58:56 And when we get these transcripts, we can spend hours
09:59:01 reading these transcripts, and then the next day we
09:59:05 come to the meeting prepared, and it's either
09:59:10 continued or withdrawn.
09:59:13 So our time meant nothing.
09:59:17 So I don't know where we are going with this.
09:59:22 But I think that we need to look into not being on the
09:59:25 appellate process.
09:59:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: What I'm looking for from council --
09:59:32 and obviously this is a major policy decision that
09:59:34 council is discussing, and there are some very valid
09:59:38 points that have been raised -- ultimately I'm looking
09:59:41 for direction, if council wishes me to do that,
09:59:43 specifically Mr. Harrison was concerned about the
09:59:45 The cost of the hearing officer, I've heard, $60 an
09:59:51 I've heard $125 an hour.
09:59:53 I don't know whether you heard but Hillsborough County
09:59:56 has budgeted -- has three land use hearing officers
09:59:58 and budgets -- now budgeting $75,000 per year for each
10:00:05 I can look at different alternatives to bringing in
10:00:07 the costs in line if that's council's decision to do
10:00:11 What I'm looking for is some sort of direction as to
10:00:15 whether council wishes me to proceed in dealing with
10:00:19 removing the appeals -- the appeals process from
10:00:23 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I'm willing to direct to you look into
10:00:26 I don't know how my other colleagues feel.
10:00:29 But I really do feel strongly that we should not be
10:00:32 into this.
10:00:33 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Because there will be a financial
10:00:36 impact if we decide this is the route we want to go,
10:00:41 there's going to be some financial impact, and I do
10:00:43 think it would probably be appropriate to hear from
10:00:45 the administration on what their opinion is about
10:00:51 that, and perhaps get some idea of the actual cost for
10:00:56 And then we can, I think, make an informed, reasoned
10:01:00 But I'm willing to go ahead and go on record and say
10:01:03 that I think that we should -- we should explore fully
10:01:08 that option, and give Marty and task Marty with coming
10:01:13 back with a report on cost, recommendations, and what
10:01:17 the administration's opinion would be on this.
10:01:21 Because it is a significant policy change.
10:01:25 That's a motion.
10:01:28 >> Second.
10:01:28 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:01:30 Question on the motion, Ms. Saul-Sena.
10:01:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:01:33 I would like to be very specific about exactly which
10:01:35 kinds of appeals would fall under this.
10:01:38 Because I think that's important.
10:01:40 And I would also like you to see within the last
10:01:43 calendar year how many of these appeals came before
10:01:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
10:01:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I am not going to support the
10:01:51 I think it really goes under the adage if it ain't
10:01:54 broke, don't fix it.
10:01:56 And I don't think we have a big problem.
10:01:57 I think it's a cop-out.
10:01:59 I think folks elect us to make tough decisions.
10:02:02 And we can call them judicial, quasi-judicial,
10:02:06 legislative, whatever it is.
10:02:07 But at the end of the day, that's why we are elected.
10:02:09 We are elected to sit here, and deal with things from
10:02:12 soup to nuts, and that's what the folks want.
10:02:15 And I think we should just keep it the way it is.
10:02:18 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Just one more thing.
10:02:20 If this motion passes, Mr. Shelby, look into the costs
10:02:25 being on a per-case basis.
10:02:28 We wouldn't want to pay them on a yearly basis, but on
10:02:32 a case basis.
10:02:34 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'll bring back options that council
10:02:40 can choose, what areas and different means.
10:02:42 I will have a Rubik of how other municipalities do it.
10:02:46 There are many ways to accomplish that.
10:02:48 And each one has its own advantages and costs.
10:02:53 >>ROSE FERLITA: Madam Chairman, I certainly don't feel
10:02:55 good about telling something to Mr. Shelby to do or
10:02:59 research when I have already pretty much made up my
10:03:03 I think it is burdensome in some cases.
10:03:05 I think council meetings have obviously gotten longer.
10:03:09 For those of us who have been here for two terms know
10:03:12 But as we got into this process, when we were elected,
10:03:14 we meaning those in 1999, it is still the same.
10:03:18 I am not comfortable in changing it.
10:03:19 I believe there is some validity to the comments that
10:03:22 Mrs. Alvarez said about the incoming council, in full
10:03:25 council after elections, decides they want to do this,
10:03:28 then so be it.
10:03:28 But I think we have gotten some criticism about
10:03:31 changing things in midstream that were something we
10:03:35 should have expected to do at the beginning of our
10:03:36 election process.
10:03:38 So because of that, I don't want to give the
10:03:40 impression to anybody that is represented by me
10:03:44 city-wide that I'm trying to shun some of that.
10:03:47 And that's not to criticize Mr. Harrison or anybody on
10:03:50 the other side of this issue.
10:03:52 I just think the appropriate time to do this is when
10:03:54 incoming council, when those seven people decide what
10:03:57 those seven people want to do.
10:03:58 For that reason, and nothing else, I am not going to
10:04:00 support the motion because I don't want to give some
10:04:02 misdirection to Mr. Shelby that I already have decided
10:04:06 to not support.
10:04:07 >>GWEN MILLER: I don't think the change will be done
10:04:09 this year.
10:04:10 It will take a long process before we can come to the.
10:04:12 >>ROSE FERLITA: But I am talking about the actual
10:04:15 I don't feel it's appropriate for me to decide what
10:04:17 the job description is of the person that's going to
10:04:19 take my place.
10:04:19 >>GWEN MILLER: I don't think it would be really making
10:04:22 the decision going on till next year.
10:04:27 And come up with all these different suggestions we
10:04:32 have made and doing the research.
10:04:33 Then by the time -- we have to wait till the budget is
10:04:37 So it will probably be next year sometime before we
10:04:39 even vote on this.
10:04:40 That's my feeling.
10:04:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Speaking with Mr. Smith just now, it
10:04:46 obviously involves budgetary concerns, changes to the
10:04:49 rules, code of ordinances.
10:04:50 So basically, it is a policy decision.
10:04:53 But I'm looking for specific direction in order to
10:04:56 proceed one way or the other.
10:04:57 >>KEVIN WHITE: Madam Chair, based on Ms. Ferlita's
10:05:01 comments, I don't really see any problem going forward
10:05:04 with just the study and bringing the information back,
10:05:06 because when you bring the information back, as she
10:05:08 said, by that time, you will have your new council and
10:05:12 your new seven members, and at that time they will
10:05:14 automatically be able to have all the information they
10:05:16 Because even if we don't have it and we say, well, we
10:05:19 are going to let the seven new members choose when
10:05:22 they get here, the other three new members that are
10:05:24 here probably won't have gone through the process at
10:05:28 that point.
10:05:29 They won't know what the process is.
10:05:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council with, all due respect, this
10:05:34 is a major undertaking.
10:05:37 And this preliminary report was just to get a sense of
10:05:40 the cost, to get a sense of the process, and get a
10:05:43 sense of what could be done, if council wishes to do
10:05:46 It would take quite a lot of work to be able to have
10:05:51 council make a decision.
10:05:52 If council is not willing to do that, it would take an
10:05:56 inordinate amount of time to provide council with a
10:05:58 decision that ultimately would be futile.
10:06:00 So with all due respect, if council wishes to defer
10:06:02 this until the next council comes on, that's fine.
10:06:05 But I really not at this stage of the Graham would
10:06:10 wish to create what would be a major proposal unless I
10:06:12 knew that there was support to go forward on it.
10:06:15 And if there's not, I can understand, it's a policy
10:06:18 But I respectfully request direction so that I know
10:06:23 that the work that will be done will be put to good
10:06:27 >>CHAIRMAN: We have a motion and second on the floor.
10:06:31 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
10:06:33 Opposed, Nay.
10:06:36 >> Dingfelder, Saul-Sena, Harrison --
10:06:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No, he made the motion.
10:06:44 Dipping ding Mr. White, where are you on this?
10:06:46 >>KEVIN WHITE: Did we have roll call?
10:06:47 >>GWEN MILLER: He said yeah.
10:06:49 >>ROSE FERLITA: 4-3.
10:06:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 4-3 to proceed?
10:06:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
10:06:53 >>MARY ALVAREZ: More work for you.
10:06:56 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I appreciate the direction.
10:06:59 Thank you.
10:06:59 Such as it is.
10:07:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 5 we are going to hold till we do
10:07:05 number 45 and come back to that this afternoon.
10:07:08 I am now going to yield to Ms. Ferlita.
10:07:11 >>ROSE FERLITA: I appreciate the interruption that you
10:07:14 are allowing me to make here. This is something of
10:07:16 grave concern to me and I don't know if some of my
10:07:18 colleagues remember me bringing this up a couple of
10:07:20 years ago.
10:07:20 But it came to light again this Saturday at Gasparilla
10:07:24 and I think it's a really important issue from the
10:07:26 standpoint of public safety.
10:07:27 As we know, there is an overabundance of requests for
10:07:31 off-duty police officers on Gasparilla, particularly
10:07:34 for residents that are on Bayshore because of all the
10:07:37 things they have to do to protect their property.
10:07:39 So knowing that those residents ask for off-duty
10:07:44 officers and tray to schedule that very early on,
10:07:46 probably now for next year, and because there is such
10:07:50 a demand and not enough police officers to take care
10:07:53 of that demand, we offer, no surprise, bring other
10:07:58 municipalities and law enforcement groups.
10:08:00 That has been the case all the time as far as I can
10:08:02 But this is what my concern is, and I don't think this
10:08:06 was given a proper response two years ago from the
10:08:09 standpoint of public safety.
10:08:11 So I want to ask it again very clearly.
10:08:13 It is my understanding that when police officers are
10:08:17 scheduled for Gasparilla, it is not in addition to
10:08:22 their regular shifts.
10:08:24 They are asked to sign vouchers or requests or
10:08:28 whatever to take a particular day off from their
10:08:31 regular schedule, up to three, maybe four per shift.
10:08:35 That concerns me, because from the standpoint of
10:08:38 public safety in East Tampa, Sulphur Springs,
10:08:43 southeast Seminole Heights, some of the other areas
10:08:45 that are not immediately or directly affected by
10:08:48 Gasparilla, that means you have less police coverage,
10:08:50 and that means if one police officer gets into a
10:08:52 serious situation, his backup may not be there, or his
10:08:55 backup will be slower in responding.
10:08:57 That's public safety issue both for the police officer
10:09:00 that's protecting us and for the citizens waiting for
10:09:04 that backup to appear.
10:09:05 It's my understanding -- and I would like to give the
10:09:08 opportunity for the administration to correct me if I
10:09:10 am wrong -- perhaps in a week -- but what they have is
10:09:14 the choice of getting a Tuesday or Wednesday or
10:09:16 Thursday on their regular shift off, and then to make
10:09:19 up for that day off, they have to work Gasparilla.
10:09:22 They work Gasparilla then as a regular shift.
10:09:25 It's not additional hours.
10:09:26 They work Gasparilla as a regular shift, regular
10:09:30 hours, regular salary per hour.
10:09:32 The residents on Bayshore, or whoever else requests
10:09:38 overcoverage or off-duty coverage, pay off-duty
10:09:43 coverage hours and rates.
10:09:43 That is not what that police officer there, who is
10:09:45 having a heck of a time keeping the crowds under
10:09:48 control, and the drunks from fighting each other, they
10:09:50 are not getting that extra combat duty scale.
10:09:55 So there's -- there's three things.
10:09:58 Where is the consideration for the neighborhood who
10:10:00 don't have full shifts because those guys are asked to
10:10:02 take a day off?
10:10:04 Why, if the police officer is working a hardship
10:10:07 schedule, and Gasparilla is by all means -- and those
10:10:10 of us who live close to Bayshore know that -- a
10:10:12 hardship schedule and not getting the extra off-duty
10:10:15 scale, why is the resident being charged off-duty when
10:10:18 in fact the city is paying that police officer regular
10:10:22 duty hours, where does that extra money go?
10:10:26 And I know that we allow event makers to get the
10:10:31 revenue from the corporate tents, et cetera.
10:10:34 But really in the scheme of things, there are many
10:10:36 things that come to this city because of the
10:10:39 celebration of Gasparilla.
10:10:41 So we get some revenue, too, from other areas.
10:10:43 Don't think that it's appropriate to get the revenue
10:10:45 from the police officers and that whole relationship
10:10:48 and that whole scheme.
10:10:49 So I think it's a very dangerous public safety issue,
10:10:53 as well as not very fair to the police officers, and
10:10:55 secondarily not fair to the people who have to pay
10:10:58 rates that those police officers are not directly
10:11:02 It concerns me.
10:11:02 It concerns me a lot.
10:11:04 I have been very anxious to bring this up since
10:11:07 Saturday because I realize that's the case as it was
10:11:09 before. I did some investigating and of course in
10:11:11 fact it is.
10:11:12 I just don't think that's a fair process.
10:11:14 And I would like either Mr. Stefan or Bonnie Wise or
10:11:18 Chief Hogue or somebody to come and tell me why it's
10:11:22 okay to pull police officers off their regular shift,
10:11:24 and make them work that as a regular day if they don't
10:11:27 want to.
10:11:29 It's a big concern for me as chairman of public
10:11:31 So I would like to make a motion that the
10:11:33 administration, and the person whoever they feel is
10:11:39 the appropriate person to respond to, this come back
10:11:41 next week, not a written report, personally appear
10:11:44 before us and let us know this Y this is a fair
10:11:47 process to the citizens, to the police officers, to
10:11:49 the whole process.
10:11:50 That's the motion, Madam Chair.
10:11:53 >> Second.
10:11:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
10:11:55 Mr. Dingfelder.
10:11:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Rose, I think those are all
10:11:58 excellent questions.
10:11:59 I think city staff and the TPD, and I now don't
10:12:03 question what they did, and I want to make sure nobody
10:12:06 misconstrues what council is doing.
10:12:08 They work hard as heck.
10:12:10 And I think they did a great job.
10:12:11 It's amazing that there were only, I think, 40 people
10:12:14 arrested out of 500,000 people that were there.
10:12:17 And they really keep the crowd under control without
10:12:20 being too, too tight.
10:12:23 I just wanted to couch that in that regard.
10:12:25 But I wanted to make one other observation, and
10:12:28 perhaps we could have staff answer this question as
10:12:31 Those of us who were in the parade, on a float or
10:12:36 walking or whatever, or even if you weren't, it was so
10:12:39 obvious that out of 500,000 people, about 100,000 are
10:12:43 on the waterside, or less, and the balance -- it
10:12:48 appears to be really unbalanced, in other words.
10:12:49 It appears like there's one fifth of the people on the
10:12:53 waterside, and -- well, not even on the tents, along
10:13:03 the entire stretch which is a limited access area,
10:13:06 there's like one fifth the amount of people.
10:13:08 Then on the other side it's like craziness, and people
10:13:11 are pushing and shoving, and they are 30 people teeth
10:13:15 And I think that we are almost creating a hazardous
10:13:20 situation that doesn't necessarily have to be that
10:13:22 And I would like, between this year and next year, I
10:13:25 would like the city and event makers to try and figure
10:13:28 out a way to balance out those crowds a little bit, so
10:13:31 that the right side of the street has more or less the
10:13:34 same number of people as the left side of the street,
10:13:36 so that way it's a little less crazy on the land ward
10:13:43 side of the street.
10:13:43 And I don't know.
10:13:44 Did you all notice that, too?
10:13:46 It seemed pretty obvious from the float.
10:13:49 There's one line of people saying, throw us the beads,
10:13:52 throw us the beads.
10:13:53 On the waterside.
10:13:54 And then on the landward side there's 30 people deep
10:13:58 and they are pushing and shoving.
10:14:01 >>ROSE FERLITA: John, I just want to respond to that
10:14:04 for not any reason that I know any more about it than
10:14:06 you do but I have been here longer and we have had
10:14:08 that issue.
10:14:09 Let me give you some clarification.
10:14:10 Sure, we can ask them to come in, too, to explain
10:14:13 This is not what the current add -- with the current
10:14:16 administration. This is always the case that event
10:14:18 makers gets all the revenue from that and from the
10:14:21 corporate tents, et cetera.
10:14:24 And there's always been some undercurrent and
10:14:24 undertones about is that fair, that the corporate
10:14:26 people with the pretty little tags and this, they get
10:14:29 to sit over there, and the masses sit over here and
10:14:32 trying to fight each other for beads that probably
10:14:35 break by the time everybody grabs them.
10:14:37 Janet, I believe, brought that up last week.
10:14:39 I don't know if she interviewed you guys but we did
10:14:42 There have been some efforts -- I don't want to say
10:14:45 successful or unsuccessful -- there have been some
10:14:47 efforts to try to remedy that.
10:14:49 By extending the parade route.
10:14:51 So that you have some opportunity for the crowd to get
10:14:54 thinner, et cetera.
10:14:55 Has that remedy total?
10:15:00 Sometimes we have talked about that.
10:15:01 The contract has been in place, and I guess maybe
10:15:03 Susan Robinson takes care of that. I don't know.
10:15:06 Then from was an extension of that same contract
10:15:08 because of the fact the city feels that they are
10:15:09 committed to giving that revenue to event makers so
10:15:13 they will be willing to continue it.
10:15:15 I think the fact you bring it up again, there's always
10:15:17 opportunity to improve the process.
10:15:18 And you're right, I mean, at the corner of the street
10:15:21 I live on, Willow and Bayshore, that's a perfect place
10:15:26 to see what you're talking about, because there may
10:15:29 not have been many, but I am going to tell you what,
10:15:32 there were a lot of the arrests right there, and the
10:15:35 thickness of the crowd and back and forth, always
10:15:39 causes some fights, especially someone that's
10:15:42 So that's something they should do.
10:15:43 That's an issue of fairness to the citizens.
10:15:45 And the relationship to the city to event makers.
10:15:48 So we actually have two concerns.
10:15:49 But everything that improves the process is good.
10:15:52 And let me also not discount the fact that other
10:15:57 staff, non-police staff did a heck of a job and they
10:16:00 were there at Gasparilla, too.
10:16:01 But I think if employees are willing to be there, then
10:16:04 they should be compensated as an off-duty job.
10:16:08 So you could link that to my motion and we could have
10:16:10 the appropriate staff come in and talk about how that
10:16:12 strategy goes and what the format is, or what they can
10:16:14 do to kind of even off the parade thickness on one
10:16:20 side versus the other.
10:16:21 They can do that, too.
10:16:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I would add take that to your
10:16:26 And I'm not objecting to the corporate tents per se,
10:16:29 and I know that's an economic issue, you know, that
10:16:32 perhaps has to be there.
10:16:33 But on the right side, on the waterside, it's not all
10:16:37 corporate tents.
10:16:38 There's a lot of gaps in between where it's just a
10:16:41 little fence.
10:16:43 But the people have to have the tags to get there.
10:16:46 And it just empty.
10:16:48 And we could balance out some of the crowds.
10:16:50 I think we can do a better job.
10:16:52 If you could add that to your motion.
10:16:53 >>ROSE FERLITA: Let's do that.
10:16:55 Because I think we need the opportunity to not
10:16:57 discourage event makers doing this.
10:16:59 It's a heck of a project.
10:17:00 But at the same time, from the standpoint of fairness,
10:17:02 let's see if there's a better way to balance it.
10:17:04 My motion is that somebody come in to discuss my
10:17:07 concerns about public safety for police, not fair,
10:17:10 don't have to go through that again.
10:17:11 In addition to that, perhaps maybe somebody from Susan
10:17:15 Robinson -- would that be the person?
10:17:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just say the administration.
10:17:20 >>ROSE FERLITA: Whoever the administration chooses per
10:17:25 Mr. Dingfelder's comment, it's a fairness issue and an
10:17:28 economic issue as well.
10:17:29 In one week I would like them to come.
10:17:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY: (Off microphone)
10:17:38 >>ROSE FERLITA: That's fine.
10:17:39 And I guess my urgency is, I'm so concerned about this
10:17:42 police issue, that that's a problem for the day of the
10:17:45 event and the day that they are off someplace else.
10:17:48 Two weeks is fine.
10:17:49 But I want a very comprehensive response to my side of
10:17:52 this motion, and I think Mr. Dingfelder has a good
10:17:54 point on his side of the motion that he asked me to
10:17:56 tag onto mine.
10:17:58 So two weeks with some appropriate response.
10:18:01 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Mrs. Ferlita, did the PBA weigh in on
10:18:05 this question that you asked?
10:18:07 >>ROSE FERLITA: No. This is the first time I brought
10:18:09 it up.
10:18:10 So they can come in and respond.
10:18:12 That's a good idea, Mrs. Alvarez.
10:18:14 So we will ask some representative from PBA, some
10:18:16 representative from the administration, to both weigh
10:18:19 in on our concerns and let me know whether or not they
10:18:23 are accurate or not.
10:18:26 That's my motion.
10:18:26 >>GWEN MILLER: Question on the motion.
10:18:29 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
10:18:30 Opposed, Nay.
10:18:31 (Motion carried).
10:18:32 >>ROSE FERLITA: Thank you, Madam Chairman.
10:18:33 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
10:18:35 would like to ask for reconsideration?
10:18:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What did we do with number 5?
10:18:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Hold it until we get to number 45.
10:18:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like someone from parks --
10:18:45 I would like a staff person when we discuss 45 because
10:18:51 I couldn't find a written report and I want to talk
10:18:55 about this.
10:18:55 Thank you.
10:18:55 >>GWEN MILLER: We are going to go to committee
10:19:01 Public safety, Rose Ferlita.
10:19:02 >>ROSE FERLITA: I would like to move resolution number
10:19:04 6, please.
10:19:07 >> Second.
10:19:08 (Motion carried).
10:19:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Parks, recreation, Ms. Alvarez.
10:19:11 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I would like to move resolution 7 and
10:19:16 a substitute for number 8.
10:19:18 >> Second.
10:19:18 (Motion carried).
10:19:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Public works, Mr. Dingfelder.
10:19:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Madam Chair.
10:19:25 I'll move items 9 through 13.
10:19:31 >> Second.
10:19:31 (Motion carried).
10:19:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Finance, Mr. Kevin White.
10:19:34 >>KEVIN WHITE: Move resolutions 16 through 17.
10:19:37 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Second.
10:19:38 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
10:19:40 (Motion carried).
10:19:41 >>KEVIN WHITE: Move an ordinance amending ordinance
10:19:44 2005-328 which made lawful the sale of beverages
10:19:47 containing alcohol regardless of alcoholic content,
10:19:49 beer, wine, liquor, 4(COP-R) for consumption on the
10:19:53 premises only in connection with a restaurant business
10:19:55 establishment or certain lot, plat or tract of land
10:19:57 located at 250 west Bayshore, 250 Westshore Boulevard,
10:20:02 Tampa, Florida, correcting a scrivener's error,
10:20:04 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict,
10:20:07 providing an effective date.
10:20:07 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
10:20:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: On item 17 I didn't get a chance --
10:20:17 >>GWEN MILLER: We are on 18.
10:20:18 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
10:20:19 (Motion carried).
10:20:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: On 17 I didn't get a chance to ask
10:20:23 the administration.
10:20:24 I was wondering if anybody knows the answer to this.
10:20:26 This is for guard services in our buildings.
10:20:31 And it looks like perhaps it's a new award of a new
10:20:37 And I'm just wondering, does anybody know, "A," if it
10:20:42 is a new company, and it looks like it is.
10:20:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Smith, can you talk on number 17?
10:20:46 The new security company.
10:20:49 >>DAVID SMITH: I doubt it.
10:20:51 Let me look to make sure.
10:20:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It's called diamond protection
10:20:56 agency and I'm not sure that's the name on the
10:20:59 uniforms downstairs.
10:21:00 I am concerned about the individuals serving on those
10:21:03 positions that perhaps we can ask that the new company
10:21:08 makes job offers to the individuals, if they are good
10:21:13 people and they are doing good jobs, maybe if they are
10:21:16 hired, maybe if diamond detective agency is hiring
10:21:18 people, maybe they can at least try to hire some of
10:21:21 the new people.
10:21:26 >>KEVIN WHITE: When one agency takes over from another
10:21:28 that's exactly what they do because they don't have
10:21:29 another 300 people to hire automatically.
10:21:31 They just normally go in and hire out the staff that
10:21:35 is currently working for the other agency.
10:21:38 If they choose to come on board.
10:21:40 That's normally what they do.
10:21:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I wonder if we can carry over item
10:21:52 >>> John Clark.
10:21:52 I'm Florida manager for diamond detective agency.
10:21:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Great.
10:21:58 You can answer that question.
10:22:00 >>> Yes.
10:22:00 All the people here that are presently working will
10:22:02 have an opportunity to submit an application and
10:22:05 review their application, if they neither meet our
10:22:09 It will make my job an awful lot easier.
10:22:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We'll take that on good faith and
10:22:14 we appreciate it.
10:22:16 >>GWEN MILLER: I remind council members when you have
10:22:18 something to pull from the agenda you need to do it
10:22:20 when we move the agenda.
10:22:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I didn't see it.
10:22:25 >>KEVIN WHITE: So my statement was correct according
10:22:30 to your agency?
10:22:31 >>> Yes, sir.
10:22:31 >>KEVIN WHITE: I would like to move resolutions 19
10:22:35 through 21.
10:22:36 >> Second.
10:22:36 (Motion carried).
10:22:37 >>THE CLERK: Madam Chairman, I would ask 14 and 15.
10:22:44 You did --
10:22:48 >>GWEN MILLER: We did 14 through 17.
10:22:49 >>MARY ALVAREZ: We did.
10:22:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Building and zoning.
10:22:53 Mrs. Saul-Sena.
10:22:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I move the resolutions 22 through
10:22:59 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Second.
10:23:01 (Motion carried).
10:23:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Number 25.
10:23:08 Move an ordinance authorizing the construction and
10:23:11 erection of encroachments decorative canopies by
10:23:16 7th Avenue Ybor City LLC over apportion of the
10:23:18 public rights-of-way known as 4th Avenue and
10:23:21 17th street as more particularly described herein
10:23:24 subject to certain terms, covenants, conditions and
10:23:26 agreements as more particularly described herein
10:23:28 providing an effective date.
10:23:28 (Motion carried).
10:23:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Transportation, Shawn Harrison.
10:23:33 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I move items 26 through 28.
10:23:40 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
10:23:42 (Motion carried).
10:23:43 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Move to set the public hearings
10:23:46 items 29 through 38.
10:23:52 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Second.
10:23:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Question on the motion, Mr. Shelby?
10:24:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry.
10:24:08 Just to bring to council's attention -- and I had a
10:24:10 discussion with the chair and the clerk about this
10:24:14 Just to bring to council's attention, on the March
10:24:17 9th calendar at the end of this agenda, it
10:24:20 presently scheduled five continued land rezonings for
10:24:23 March 9th, and five new cases for March 9th,
10:24:27 bringing it up to a total of 10.
10:24:29 Just to bring to council's attention, because what we
10:24:32 did last week when we continued a lot of cases on
10:24:34 Thursday night, just to let council know that.
10:24:38 we are going to be over the limit with these over
10:24:40 here, and I will be more vigilant.
10:24:48 >>SHAWN HARRISON: How far are we over them?
10:24:49 I can't really figure out what all this red means on
10:24:52 the agenda.
10:24:55 >>THE CLERK: (Off microphone)
10:25:16 >>MARY ALVAREZ: At what time are we starting the CBDG?
10:25:21 >>GWEN MILLER: 5:30.
10:25:23 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I'm -- I'm not willing to do that.
10:25:25 Which ones on this agenda are we adding?
10:25:29 >>THE CLERK: Items 31, 35, through 38, March 9th,
10:25:34 night meeting.
10:25:35 >>SHAWN HARRISON: 31 and 35 through 38.
10:25:39 Then I don't want to do that.
10:25:42 So I move to withdraw.
10:25:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you have a second?
10:25:47 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Second.
10:25:47 (Motion carried).
10:25:51 >>SHAWN HARRISON: So items 31 and 35 through 38, when
10:25:56 do we now have those slots open?
10:26:07 >>THE CLERK: March 31st is your first land zoning
10:26:13 I do not know how many they have taken in.
10:26:15 Currently you have one set for that night.
10:26:21 April 13th is your next night meeting.
10:26:23 You currently have one continued land rezoning and one
10:26:26 land zoning scheduled for that night.
10:26:29 I don't know how many new ones have come in for that
10:26:31 because they are taking in ten new petitions for the
10:26:34 night meetings.
10:26:35 >>SHAWN HARRISON: But they haven't actually been
10:26:37 scheduled yet.
10:26:38 So these five were on our agenda before these new ones
10:26:41 have even made their way to us.
10:26:42 >>ROSE FERLITA: So we can make our decision on those
10:26:45 when they come.
10:26:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Right.
10:26:46 >>SHAWN HARRISON: So I would go ahead and move these
10:26:48 five for that first meeting that you mentioned.
10:26:53 >>THE CLERK: The 23rd of March.
10:26:57 >>MARY ALVAREZ: So moved.
10:26:59 >> Second.
10:26:59 [Motion Carried]
10:27:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I notice that one of these
10:27:02 petitions is adjacent to Kennedy Boulevard.
10:27:05 And you know how there's a plan that's been kicking
10:27:08 around for a long time.
10:27:10 I would like to make a request that land development
10:27:15 present the Kennedy Boulevard plan to council in
10:27:22 February so that we deal with it prior to petitions
10:27:25 coming up in March.
10:27:26 >>GWEN MILLER: February when?
10:27:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Well, I'll give them to the last
10:27:31 week of the month.
10:27:31 If they need to ask for a continuance they will but at
10:27:34 least it will get it going.
10:27:35 And that will be February 23rd.
10:27:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What else do you have on February
10:27:40 >>THE CLERK: On February 23rd at 9:30, you have
10:27:43 the public hearing for the old Tampa Police
10:27:45 Department, community redevelopment area.
10:27:48 You have a continued closure, two closures, and
10:27:52 adoption of public hearing.
10:27:54 That's also your night meeting.
10:27:56 You have a 5:30, two continued adoption, you have CRI,
10:28:01 three continued land rezonings.
10:28:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay, how about March 2nd?
10:28:07 >>THE CLERK: March 2nd you have seven adoption
10:28:09 public hearings for map amendments at 9:30 and you
10:28:11 have a 1:30 discussion regarding the Hillsborough
10:28:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think that was better.
10:28:22 >>SHAWN HARRISON: As long as it's before the 23rd
10:28:25 we are fine.
10:28:25 Because that's when that particular item is going to
10:28:27 come back up.
10:28:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: But in case it requires more
10:28:31 I think March 2nd is a lot better than the next
10:28:36 week, for example.
10:28:40 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Can we just put it under like --
10:28:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Staff reports?
10:28:46 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Staff reports or new business.
10:28:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Five minutes.
10:28:49 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Five minutes.
10:28:52 I'll second.
10:28:55 >>GWEN MILLER: March 2nd?
10:28:57 We have a motion and second.
10:28:57 (Motion carried).
10:28:59 >>GWEN MILLER: I see -- is there something you all
10:29:06 want to hear?
10:29:07 >>HEATHER LAMBOY: Land development.
10:29:12 I'm out of breath.
10:29:13 The three cases set that are requested to be scheduled
10:29:18 are new cases, and they didn't make the deadline last
10:29:21 week because the legal certifications weren't
10:29:23 obtained, so during the flood so they were 15 minutes
10:29:29 But there are several continuances that you guys had
10:29:33 that you had waived your rules, because Marty knew
10:29:38 that in the logbook maintain that there were a certain
10:29:42 number of cases that were allowed.
10:29:44 And so when you scheduled the continued cases for the
10:29:47 Channelside and others, you waived those rules at that
10:29:51 Because we had a full agenda.
10:29:53 >>ROSE FERLITA: Did you run over here so you would be
10:29:57 in shape to run that lap with Ms. Miller?
10:30:00 >>SHAWN HARRISON: So why don't you just tell us,
10:30:10 I'm sorry.
10:30:13 >> They knew it was over but we don't care.
10:30:15 >>GWEN MILLER: You are saying that March 9th is
10:30:18 you really need them there, is that right?
10:30:20 >>HEATHER LAMBOY: Well, that -- would I really want
10:30:23 them there, all of them?
10:30:27 I mean, the new cases had been scheduled for March
10:30:32 And the petitioners are starting their public notice
10:30:36 as well.
10:30:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's a problem.
10:30:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes, public notice.
10:30:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think it's a problem for them to
10:30:43 assume something, assuming we are going to do this.
10:30:46 And I think that the appropriate thing is for you guys
10:30:49 to wait until council asks before you tell people,
10:30:54 here's your sign, write this date and stick it in the
10:30:58 ground and mail your stuff.
10:30:59 >>HEATHER LAMBOY: The problem actually was with the
10:31:02 Because the --
10:31:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No, excuse me.
10:31:06 But the reality is that nothing is official until
10:31:08 council votes on it on a Thursday.
10:31:12 You can expect that this will happen, but my
10:31:14 understanding is, what Mr. Harrison just said, it's
10:31:19 the official action setting those is for a particular
10:31:21 And don't think P think people should send out their
10:31:24 stuff until council officially acts to set those
10:31:28 And I gather that the practice is to assume that if
10:31:31 it's on here that it's going to happen.
10:31:33 But a better, safer thing to do would be to wait until
10:31:38 council acts.
10:31:39 >>HEATHER LAMBOY: I guess the error was my sums in
10:31:43 that the council already waived the rules to those
10:31:45 cases and the ten allowed cases for new hearings were
10:31:49 somewhat set in stone.
10:31:51 What's thrown over on the agenda are the continued
10:31:57 >>MARY ALVAREZ: The ones we are talking about are new
10:31:59 cases. They can't be set in stone until we set them.
10:32:04 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Heather, are you saying what
10:32:07 happened is as a result of last Thursday night all the
10:32:11 >>> Yes.
10:32:11 >>SHAWN HARRISON: And we were somehow not on the ball
10:32:13 and we were adding these things to an already full
10:32:16 agenda night?
10:32:18 >>HEATHER LAMBOY: That's correct.
10:32:21 >>KEVIN WHITE: No, Mr. Harrison, we knew what we were
10:32:24 doing, but it was Ms. Saul-Sena that said, we know
10:32:26 that some of these are going to drop off, as we
10:32:29 always -- as some of them always do, and we went ahead
10:32:32 as a courtesy on that statement.
10:32:34 I remember that one.
10:32:36 >>ROSE FERLITA: Ms. Saul-Sena, did you hear that in
10:32:41 case you want rebuttal?
10:32:43 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I don't think we knew the CDBG was
10:32:46 going to have those cases.
10:32:50 And we don't look at the calendar.
10:32:54 I am not changing my vote.
10:33:00 >>ROSE FERLITA: Either the chairman or someone come up
10:33:02 with some reasonable suggestion.
10:33:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Council members, we all know last
10:33:05 Thursday night out of an agenda of 15 things maybe
10:33:08 eight were continued.
10:33:09 I'll betcha, I would be willing to bet money, that we
10:33:16 are going to have some continuances.
10:33:19 So even though this number looks daunting at this
10:33:21 point, based on our experience of the number of
10:33:23 continuances, I think that he would should go ahead
10:33:25 and schedule the ones, particularly because Ms. Lamboy
10:33:28 said --
10:33:29 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Mrs. Saul-Sena, what time did you get
10:33:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: 11:30.
10:33:34 I left here at 11:30.
10:33:36 And that was with a number of continuances.
10:33:38 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I rest my case. I am not changing.
10:33:51 I'm sorry.
10:33:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The motion was to continue the
10:33:56 But I believe what Mrs. Lamboy is saying is that
10:33:58 people have already taken their little signs and stuck
10:34:01 them in and told their neighbors.
10:34:02 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Is it a 30-day notice that they have?
10:34:10 30-day notice?
10:34:12 >>> Yes, that's correct.
10:34:13 It's not absolutely true.
10:34:15 I have directed them to get things prepared because
10:34:17 February is a short month, to have them done by the
10:34:20 Whether they have done that or not it's up to the
10:34:22 Sometimes they do it a little early.
10:34:24 >>ROSE FERLITA: We have one underlying problem that we
10:34:27 don't want to have a thousand petitions and get home
10:34:30 at some ridiculous hour.
10:34:31 That's been said thousand times.
10:34:33 And we should stick to our rules better than we do.
10:34:36 And we should not gamble, Mrs. Saul-Sena.
10:34:37 And I know what you're saying.
10:34:39 Because sometimes they are going to surprise you and
10:34:41 nobody is going to ask for a continuance.
10:34:43 The second part of this whole dilemma is, we need --
10:34:49 we know the departments do a lot of work, Heather and
10:34:52 her group, et cetera, et cetera.
10:34:54 What about this as a compromise?
10:34:55 If they have already committed to something, that they
10:34:58 should not have committed to, and they already told
10:35:01 some of the petition towers do this, let's back them
10:35:03 up, let's do it, let's bite the bullet, let's go ahead
10:35:06 and have what might appear to be a lengthy agenda, but
10:35:09 let's not do it again.
10:35:11 So, that way, everybody wins.
10:35:14 I don't know what else to do.
10:35:15 She assumed, we assumed, we had to say yes, she told
10:35:18 them, if that's where the process is far gone, it not
10:35:22 there for the petitioners who took it on her word's
10:35:25 value that they could start this.
10:35:27 So I know that we are the last say.
10:35:29 But let's cover all the departments like we cover for
10:35:32 us and let's just go from there.
10:35:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Rescind the motion?
10:35:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Whoever is on the prevailing side can
10:35:38 make a motion to reconsider.
10:35:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I voted with Shawn so I was on the
10:35:45 prevailing side.
10:35:47 I move.
10:35:48 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Let me make one comment.
10:35:50 February 7th is the day they are doing it and if
10:35:52 they do it early that's their problem.
10:35:57 >>HEATHER LAMBOY: It just so happens the petitioner
10:36:00 for three of them is here, and he says he doesn't have
10:36:03 a problem with moving them to March 23rd.
10:36:07 >> Or April.
10:36:08 Whatever your date is.
10:36:12 >>GWEN MILLER: The night of the 23rd.
10:36:14 That's okay?
10:36:17 >>STEVE MICHELINI: There's two cases.
10:36:18 >>GWEN MILLER: What about the other two, Heather?
10:36:22 >>HEATHER LAMBOY: We'll push back some cases.
10:36:25 >>GWEN MILLER: You say three of them.
10:36:26 You were saying there was five of them for the
10:36:31 >>ROSE FERLITA: Heather, are some of them already in
10:36:33 process on your say-so and that's going to cause some
10:36:36 embarrassment to you guys?
10:36:37 >>HEATHER LAMBOY: Well, a commitment made --
10:36:40 >>: They come through.
10:36:41 >>HEATHER LAMBOY: 601 there was a commitment made by
10:36:45 Mr. Snelling.
10:36:46 Number 35.
10:36:49 That I don't think is movable.
10:36:53 36, 37, 38 can be moved.
10:36:56 >>GWEN MILLER: So three of them is okay but what about
10:36:58 the other two?
10:37:03 31 and 35.
10:37:04 >>HEATHER LAMBOY: 31 can be moved as well.
10:37:07 >>GWEN MILLER: So just one, number 35.
10:37:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Move to consider number 35?
10:37:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Number 35 keep it on March 9th.
10:37:16 So we need a motion to rescind that motion.
10:37:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just a motion to reconsider on that
10:37:20 particular item.
10:37:21 On 35.
10:37:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Just a motion to reconsider 35.
10:37:25 Need a motion for that.
10:37:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
10:37:31 >> Second.
10:37:31 (Motion carried).
10:37:36 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Nay.
10:37:37 >>KEVIN WHITE: Nay.
10:37:38 >>ROSE FERLITA: Mr. Dingfelder voted?
10:37:43 >>GWEN MILLER: It was 4-2.
10:37:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Now we need a motion to set that.
10:37:47 >>GWEN MILLER: And set number 35 for March 9th.
10:37:51 We need a motion.
10:37:54 Ms. Saul-Sena.
10:37:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Sure.
10:37:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Do we have a second?
10:37:59 >>ROSE FERLITA: I don't know what the motion is.
10:38:00 >>GWEN MILLER: To schedule for March 9th.
10:38:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: March 9th, 6 p.m.
10:38:07 >>THE CLERK: At this time if you add number 35 to your
10:38:10 night agenda you will have one CDBG public hearing at
10:38:14 5:30, five continued land rezonings at six, and six
10:38:18 land rezonings at 6:00.
10:38:21 >>ROSE FERLITA: I didn't know that was CDBG.
10:38:25 CDBG never gets enough time.
10:38:27 Can we make it earlier?
10:38:33 They never have enough time.
10:38:35 That's a mockery of our procedure.
10:38:36 >>THE CLERK: And your continued land Rae zonings are
10:38:41 in the Channel District.
10:38:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Saul-Sena says we are going to have
10:38:46 some continued.
10:38:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I pray.
10:38:52 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Don't think we had a vote on number
10:38:55 Is there a seconder?
10:38:57 >>THE CLERK: No second as of yet.
10:38:58 >>GWEN MILLER: We need a second to schedule 35 for
10:39:02 March --
10:39:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Excuse me, wait a minute, which one
10:39:07 are we talking about?
10:39:08 Why don't we put that off?
10:39:10 Why don't we put that off?
10:39:12 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Because you said you were going to --
10:39:14 >>GWEN MILLER: That was already --
10:39:19 >>MARY ALVAREZ: They can blame City Council for that.
10:39:21 They don't have to take the brunt of it.
10:39:23 Tell them to come talk to us.
10:39:28 >>ROSE FERLITA: I was saying it was okay for us.
10:39:32 >>GWEN MILLER: If it doesn't have a second we have to
10:39:35 go back to the original motion of approving for --
10:39:39 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I make a motion that we put item 35
10:39:42 back on the March 23rd.
10:39:43 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:39:45 All in favor of that motion say Aye.
10:39:47 Opposed, Nay.
10:39:49 (Motion carried).
10:39:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Madam Chairman, on item number 35,
10:39:52 I would just like to request that transportation, I
10:39:56 believe, is doing a study of this intersection of
10:39:59 Westshore and Gandy, that whenever this comes up,
10:40:02 which I guess is going to be March 23rd, the
10:40:04 transportation tells the consultant this is coming up
10:40:09 and they give us their latest information prior to, or
10:40:13 at the same time as this comes up.
10:40:14 Because wouldn't it make sense to have lots of
10:40:20 >>ROSE FERLITA: Prior to.
10:40:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Prior to.
10:40:22 That the transportation report on Gandy and Westshore
10:40:27 present in the morning maybe during -- no.
10:40:31 >>ROSE FERLITA: I don't know about you but I need more
10:40:34 time to look at the transportation constraints on this
10:40:37 Downtown think them coming up with a report that
10:40:38 morning, in all due respect, I think --
10:40:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It would be better that evening,
10:40:46 Ms. Ferlita?
10:40:47 >>ROSE FERLITA: Well, I want an opportunity to look.
10:40:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: You make the motion rose Ross maybe
10:40:54 the week before.
10:40:54 But I would like it as an important component on how
10:40:58 we weigh in on it.
10:41:05 >>ROSE FERLITA: That's the -- make it the week before.
10:41:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My motion would be that we get a
10:41:11 report from transportation on March 16th on the --
10:41:16 on however the results of their transportation study
10:41:20 for Westshore and Gandy.
10:41:21 And if it isn't complete, they give us the best they
10:41:24 have got to date.
10:41:29 >> Second.
10:41:29 (Motion carried).
10:41:30 >>ROSE FERLITA: Madam Chairman, I wonder if I can say
10:41:38 I was very briefly advised by Mr. Shelby and Mr. Smith
10:41:41 upon that motion that I made with public safety and
10:41:45 appearing before us about the issue of Gasparilla, and
10:41:47 as a courtesy to Ms. Alvarez I have no problem with
10:41:50 the time, about including PBA but the attorneys told
10:41:54 me it's perhaps a negotiation issue and should not
10:41:57 involve them.
10:41:58 So want to rescind the whole thing and come back with
10:42:01 a motion without that?
10:42:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You can do that or a motion to amend
10:42:05 to remove the reference to the PBA.
10:42:07 >>ROSE FERLITA: Then that's my motion.
10:42:08 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I don't understand if we are just
10:42:12 asking them to weigh in and just give an opinion about
10:42:17 I mean, I don't --
10:42:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Not knowing the full ramifications
10:42:24 but knowing it may relate to a negotiated labor
10:42:27 contract it may be inappropriate, this may be an
10:42:29 inappropriate forum for it to be discussed at that
10:42:32 particular time.
10:42:35 I don't think -- I'm sorry.
10:42:37 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Mr. Harrison -- Mr. Shelby, I think we
10:42:44 ought to let PBA tell us they can't talk about it
10:42:48 because they are in negotiation but the fact that we
10:42:51 want to hear from them as to her questions, I see
10:42:53 nothing wrong with it, regarding whether it's a
10:42:55 negotiated point or not.
10:42:57 I mean, we are not asking for things to be in an
10:43:01 ordinance or whatever.
10:43:02 We wanted a conversation with them.
10:43:04 And I think it's up to them to tell us, no, we can't
10:43:07 come and talk to you about it.
10:43:08 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Yes, would I be interested to know
10:43:10 if PBA has identified this as an issue, something
10:43:15 that's of concern to them as well and they can weigh
10:43:18 in and tell us whether or not we are interested in
10:43:19 this issue, without having any impact whatsoever.
10:43:23 >>ROSE FERLITA: Then in terms of my motion --
10:43:28 >>ROSE FERLITA: If they feel it's not prudent in terms
10:43:30 of a union relationship they can tell us, that in this
10:43:33 particular arena, forum, they chose not to make
10:43:36 Give them that opportunity.
10:43:38 So can I amend my motion to read that way instead,
10:43:41 >>MARY ALVAREZ: What was your motion again?
10:43:45 >>ROSE FERLITA: To invite without obligation to
10:43:47 publicly express their opinion or their position, if
10:43:50 they feel it's a problem with the union-type
10:43:52 relationship they can tell us.
10:43:54 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Second.
10:43:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Likewise if the administration feels
10:43:59 it is they can so inform council.
10:44:00 >>ROSE FERLITA: You mean about the PBA.
10:44:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: What I'm saying, council, I'm raising
10:44:07 the concern as to whether or not it's appropriate for
10:44:09 public discussion.
10:44:10 It may or may not --
10:44:13 >>ROSE FERLITA: No, I stopped there, Mr. Shelby. If
10:44:16 there's a union situation where that's not going to be
10:44:18 discussed in a public forum, so be it.
10:44:20 I have an obligation to the people that put us here
10:44:22 and me as public safety chairman thanks to Mrs.
10:44:26 Miller, I need an answer because there's three issues.
10:44:29 It's unfair, it's unsafe, and it makes no sense to
10:44:33 pull people off of a shift so they can work Gasparilla
10:44:36 if they want to or not and the people that are not
10:44:38 involved in that parade or celebration have less
10:44:41 police officers out there. I can cite you some
10:44:43 particular situations where I am concerned, and I
10:44:44 believe in some cases more than three people on a
10:44:47 shift were pulled, and pick a to be off whether you
10:44:52 want it or not.
10:44:52 That, I would not agree with you, that this is not the
10:44:55 particular forum in which the administration should
10:44:59 They should.
10:44:59 They have to let people know that regardless of the
10:45:01 celebrations and the money generating and all the
10:45:04 festivities, that each of our neighborhoods away from
10:45:07 Gasparilla route are safe.
10:45:08 This is a safety issue.
10:45:10 The PBA stuff I am going to let them chose what they
10:45:13 want to say or not say.
10:45:15 But on this other, I will not say -- I hope -- I
10:45:18 hope -- I hope that I don't hear from the
10:45:20 administration that says, we don't want to discuss
10:45:23 This is a public safety issue for the people that pay
10:45:26 the taxes and pay the salaries of police.
10:45:29 If that's what you're saying --
10:45:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: No, no.
10:45:32 >>ROSE FERLITA: It's really getting my --
10:45:34 >>MARTIN SHELBY: What I was saying, Mrs. Ferlita, is
10:45:36 not that issue.
10:45:37 Way was say -- talking about was bringing the PBA into
10:45:41 the discussion as a third party as to the
10:45:43 administration procedures and City Council.
10:45:46 I'm sorry you misunderstood that.
10:45:48 >>ROSE FERLITA: I was doing that as a Curt easy to
10:45:50 Mrs. Alvarez.
10:45:51 I understand what she and Mr. Harrison were saying.
10:45:53 We will let them decide what's the appropriate.
10:45:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That's fine.
10:45:56 I was just raising -- I've done my job.
10:45:59 >>ROSE FERLITA: And I've done mine.
10:46:02 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion.
10:46:03 (Motion carried).
10:46:06 We go to our public hearings for second reading.
10:46:08 Is there anyone in the public that's going to speak on
10:46:11 item 39 through 44?
10:46:13 Would you please stand and raise your right hand?
10:46:15 (Oath administered by Clerk).
10:46:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: My two short points.
10:46:27 Ski that all written communications relative to
10:46:30 today's hearings that have been available to the
10:46:31 public at council's office be received and filed into
10:46:33 the record provider to action.
10:46:36 Motion, please?
10:46:39 >> So moved.
10:46:40 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Second.
10:46:40 (Motion carried).
10:46:41 >>MARTIN SHELBY: A reminder if there are any ex parte
10:46:44 communications relative to today's hearings that
10:46:46 council members please disclose them.
10:46:47 Thank you.
10:46:48 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to open items 39 to 44.
10:46:51 >>MARY ALVAREZ: So moved.
10:46:52 >> Second.
10:46:52 (Motion carried).
10:46:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
10:46:56 would like to speak on item 39?
10:46:57 >>KEVIN WHITE: Move to close.
10:46:58 >> Second.
10:46:58 (Motion carried).
10:46:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Mrs. Saul-Sena, would you read 39?
10:47:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to adopt an order upon second
10:47:08 reading an ordinance making lawful the conditional
10:47:11 sale of beverages containing alcohol regardless of
10:47:13 alcoholic content beer, wine and liquor 4(COP-R) for
10:47:16 consumption on the premises only in connection with a
10:47:19 restaurant business establishment on that certain lot,
10:47:21 plot or tract of land located at 915 South Howard
10:47:23 Avenue Tampa, Florida as more particularly described
10:47:25 in section 2 hereof waiving certain restrictions as to
10:47:28 distance based upon certain findings imposing certain
10:47:30 conditions, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
10:47:33 conflict, providing an effective date.
10:47:33 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Second.
10:47:37 >>THE CLERK: I want to state that this is the
10:47:39 ordinance that reflects that the hours of operation
10:47:41 are 11:00 o'clock Monday through Sunday, and 12
10:47:45 Saturday, and conditional.
10:47:51 >> Thank you for the clarification.
10:47:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
10:47:53 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Yes.
10:47:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
10:47:55 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Yes.
10:47:56 >>ROSE FERLITA: No.
10:47:58 >>KEVIN WHITE: Yes.
10:47:59 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Ferlita being no and
10:48:02 Dingfelder being absent.
10:48:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
10:48:05 would like to speak on item 40?
10:48:07 >> Move to close.
10:48:08 >> Second.
10:48:08 (Motion carried).
10:48:08 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I move an ordinance repealing
10:48:13 ordinance number 2005-60 making lawful the conditional
10:48:17 sale of beverages containing alcohol regardless of
10:48:19 alcoholic con dent beer, wine and liquor 4(COP-X) for
10:48:21 consumption on premises only at or from that certain
10:48:24 lot, plot or tract of land located at 4601 and 4615
10:48:28 east Fowler Avenue and 11315 north 46th street,
10:48:32 Tampa, Florida as more particularly described in
10:48:34 section 3 hereof, waiving certain restrictions as to
10:48:37 distance based upon certain findings, providing for
10:48:39 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
10:48:41 effective date.
10:48:44 >> Second.
10:48:44 >>GWEN MILLER: VOTE voice roll call.
10:48:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
10:48:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
10:48:51 >>KEVIN WHITE: Yes.
10:48:52 >>ROSE FERLITA: He.
10:48:53 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Yes.
10:48:55 (Motion carried).
10:48:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public to speak
10:48:58 on item 41?
10:48:59 You may come up and speak.
10:49:02 >> North Franklin Street Tampa 33602, I have been
10:49:12 sworn in.
10:49:14 Representing petitioner Publix Supermarkets, Inc., who
10:49:17 had requested a wet zoning to install a package liquor
10:49:20 store next to the existing Publix supermarket store at
10:49:24 1313 south Dale Mabry.
10:49:26 The matter was discussed at the January 19th City
10:49:28 Council hearing in which councilman Mr. Dingfelder had
10:49:33 requested that petitioner notify two additional
10:49:37 neighborhood associations, the Palma Ceia neighborhood
10:49:40 association, and the golf view neighborhood
10:49:42 association, in addition to the Palma Ceia west
10:49:46 neighborhood association that had originally been
10:49:49 I'm here today to confirm to council that we did make
10:49:52 phone calls and send e-mails to all three association
10:49:56 presidents to let them know of the wet zoning
10:49:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:50:00 I appreciate you doing that.
10:50:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Madam Chair.
10:50:03 Did they have any response?
10:50:04 Did you have any communication, two-way communication?
10:50:09 >>> I left voice mails for all three neighborhood
10:50:11 association presidents, and sent e-mails to them.
10:50:14 One neighborhood association, Lori Jennas of the Palma
10:50:18 Ceia neighborhood association did call me back, and we
10:50:21 discussed some concerns that she had personally, not
10:50:24 speaking on behalf of the association, but she had
10:50:27 some personal concerns about the bank being opened and
10:50:31 about stormwater issues, but not specifically about
10:50:34 the wet zoning for the package liquor store.
10:50:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
10:50:38 And she did relay those questions to me, actually
10:50:43 specifically also about the bank and stormwater.
10:50:48 And the question -- the question that she had was,
10:50:51 which I think is a relevant question -- is, I know we
10:50:56 addressed stormwater -- excuse me, I know we addressed
10:50:59 stormwater when the bank came in.
10:51:02 I don't think you were a part of that.
10:51:04 >>> No, I'm sorry, I wasn't.
10:51:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But Mr. Awad, if you want to
10:51:15 possibly come in, that would be great.
10:51:18 But the question is on the liquor store and the other
10:51:21 uses that are being proposed to the north of the
10:51:25 grocery store --
10:51:28 >>> Yes, sir.
10:51:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: People have wondered, are those
10:51:32 being built with any stormwater mitigation involved?
10:51:37 That's not well stated.
10:51:38 Is there any stormwater mitigation that you all have
10:51:40 implemented for those new structures?
10:51:45 >>> I apologize, Mr. Dingfelder, I am not in a
10:51:47 position to comment on the stormwater mitigation
10:51:51 If that is a serious concern of council, I could try
10:51:54 to look into that.
10:51:55 But I think perhaps when the center was first
10:52:00 initially being considered for these additional
10:52:02 projects, perhaps the matter was addressed then or
10:52:04 perhaps the city stormwater representative might be
10:52:09 able to comment further.
10:52:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Alex, we are talking about the
10:52:13 Neptune Publix and the two or three buildings, new
10:52:16 buildings that they are building to the north.
10:52:19 When they did the bank, you remember, you pushed real
10:52:22 hard, as did we, that they should do some mitigation
10:52:25 out there, and they did.
10:52:29 How about those new buildings that they are proposing
10:52:30 including this liquor store?
10:52:35 >>ALEX AWAD: Since it did not go through zoning, I
10:52:38 requested that they provided the adequate amount of
10:52:41 stormwater requirements for that site, as if it was a
10:52:46 green space.
10:52:46 So they must have done it.
10:52:48 I do not know at this point.
10:52:50 I could go back and check.
10:52:53 But my recommendation to date was to pay close
10:52:57 attention that they did provide our standard
10:53:00 stormwater requirement for a vacant lot.
10:53:02 So I think they have done that.
10:53:03 But I do not know at this point.
10:53:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do you want to come back?
10:53:09 >>ALEX AWAD: Yes, I could do that.
10:53:11 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Provide a written report to Mr.
10:53:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Our office.
10:53:21 >>> Thank you.
10:53:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Any other questions on number 4?
10:53:25 >> Move to close.
10:53:26 >> Second.
10:53:26 (Motion carried)
10:53:26 >>MARY ALVAREZ: An ordinance making lawful the sale of
10:53:33 beverage regardless of alcoholic content beer, wine
10:53:35 and liquor 3 PS in sealed containers for couples off
10:53:39 premises only at or from that certain lot, plot or
10:53:41 tract of land located at 1313 south Dale Mabry
10:53:44 highway, Tampa, Florida, as more particularly
10:53:46 described in section 2 hereof, waiving certain
10:53:48 restrictions as to distance based upon certain
10:53:51 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
10:53:54 conflict, providing an effective date.
10:53:55 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
10:53:57 Question on the motion, Mrs. Saul-Sena.
10:53:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The reason that I believe Mr.
10:54:00 Dingfelder brought this up and that it's ringing a
10:54:03 bell with me is that it not this particular request
10:54:06 for alcoholic zoning, it is the fact that the city is
10:54:09 spending $20 million of public money on flooding at
10:54:12 this intersection, and the petitioner's client,
10:54:15 Publix, is adding onto the building and we just want
10:54:18 to make sure that they are doing all they can to make
10:54:22 sure that any new stormwater that's generated by
10:54:26 paving, what is currently unpaved land, that the be
10:54:28 captured on-site and not add to the city's stormwater
10:54:33 Because $20 million of public money is a lot.
10:54:36 And I just want to make sure it's not get anything
10:54:38 worse from what they are proposing.
10:54:40 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Forgive me if I'm a little dense but
10:54:43 this is wet zoning.
10:54:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Well, wet, now, stormwater.
10:54:49 It's a way of getting their attention because they are
10:54:52 asking us for something.
10:54:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
10:54:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I agree.
10:54:56 In this particular case, Mary, it's the only time this
10:54:58 council is going to see this issue because as Mr. Awad
10:55:01 said, this one is not coming in for rezoning and never
10:55:04 D.apparently they were grandfathered in to be able to
10:55:06 build those buildings without putting -- but going to
10:55:10 the wet zoning I'm not going to support this wet
10:55:14 Don't think we need a liquor store there.
10:55:17 I don't know where I think we need another liquor
10:55:21 I think there's plenty of liquor stores around.
10:55:23 I think it's out of character with the surrounding
10:55:27 And I think that there's plenty of other reasonable
10:55:32 beneficial uses that can go in that property.
10:55:35 And I think it's inconsistent and incompatible with
10:55:38 that shopping plaza, and with that neighborhood.
10:55:40 And I'm not going to support it.
10:55:43 >>ROSE FERLITA: I'm kind of confused about something
10:55:49 Alex, when we requested people that were developing or
10:55:56 not at that intersection given what Mrs. Saul-Sena
10:55:59 said about the stormwater issues, did they have an
10:56:01 expectation to add this on to their store, and when we
10:56:05 asked them to accommodate stormwater requirements, was
10:56:07 this included?
10:56:08 I know you talked about that but I'm not real sure
10:56:10 that I understood.
10:56:11 >>ALEX AWAD: Stormwater department.
10:56:13 This came up some time ago when we were looking at the
10:56:18 Bank of America site on the parking lot for Publix.
10:56:23 And at that time I noticed this green space behind, or
10:56:29 to the north of the current Publix site that somebody
10:56:32 told me that they were going to develop this thing,
10:56:35 and put the 10,000 square foot building there. So I
10:56:38 took the initiative to talk to the city and tell them
10:56:41 this could not just remain green space, or be
10:56:44 considered paved space, and just not provide anything.
10:56:48 This is going to have to be done to our current
10:56:52 Whether he did the did it or not I do not know.
10:56:55 >>ROSE FERLITA: That's my problem.
10:56:57 I disagree with Mr. Dingfelder.
10:56:58 I think that Publix, in order to compete with other
10:57:03 large grocery chains, that have an adjacent liquor
10:57:06 store, need that liquor store there.
10:57:08 But the fact is that not knowing for sure whether they
10:57:11 met that criteria, I don't want to support the fact
10:57:17 this is a competitive add-on that Publix needs and
10:57:20 Publix has certainly been a good neighbor to this
10:57:22 community, and sticks to the guidelines.
10:57:23 But the issue is not involved with this one, but we
10:57:28 set certain things that we were going to do with
10:57:33 stormwater money.
10:57:38 I could support those two things at Paxton because we
10:57:42 dressed things.
10:57:45 We had so much money to correct flooding at that
10:57:49 I don't want to go against that by saying it's okay
10:57:52 but I don't want to go against Publix because I think
10:57:55 Publix is a wonderful corporate partner in this
10:57:57 I'm surprised we don't know whether or not they took
10:57:59 care of the stormwater request or not.
10:58:01 >>ALEX AWAD: Well, they are two separate departments.
10:58:05 The department that the Construction Services Center
10:58:07 that reviews petitions or plans that do not come to
10:58:12 City Council for development requirements, then, you
10:58:15 know, I do not know.
10:58:18 >>ROSE FERLITA: So we really don't know what they have
10:58:22 done or not done given the opportunity to make those
10:58:24 criteria work for them.
10:58:26 So I'm like if I vote, and they are not going to take
10:58:30 care of the stormwater, that's a bad thing for South
10:58:33 If they have taken care of that and accommodated it,
10:58:36 it's a bad thing for me to say no oh to Publix.
10:58:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Why don't we continue this for a
10:58:42 >>ROSE FERLITA: Let me interrupt you as well.
10:58:43 Ma'am, you may get the votes.
10:58:45 I want you to know I will support it.
10:58:47 And obviously it's not Mr. Awad's fault.
10:58:50 It's another department of another department that's
10:58:52 supposed to tell us whether or not you made some
10:58:53 accommodations for the conversion to green space for
10:58:56 10,000 square foot.
10:58:57 Do you see what I'm saying?
10:58:58 So I don't know if that's the appropriate thing.
10:59:00 I think the petitioner can roll the dice or hold it.
10:59:05 I will support you once somebody from the
10:59:06 administration, should have told us already, whether
10:59:09 or not you ar willing to comply.
10:59:11 I suspect that you are.
10:59:13 But I don't know that.
10:59:14 So I don't have enough information.
10:59:16 Maybe -- that's not the problem for me or other
10:59:20 council members but I'm confused.
10:59:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Let's hear from Cathy O'Dowd.
10:59:24 >>CATHLEEN O'DOWD: Assistant city attorney.
10:59:27 With regard to wet zonings, the standard of review,
10:59:31 first of all you look at the underlying zoning and
10:59:34 make sure they have the appropriate zoning for the wet
10:59:36 zoning to lay on top of that.
10:59:37 And then you look at it with whether or not they need
10:59:40 a waiver of the distance separation requirements.
10:59:42 In this case they do.
10:59:44 And in that situation, you look at whether the
10:59:46 proposed wet zoning will adversely impact the
10:59:50 surrounding neighborhood as to whether or not to waive
10:59:53 those distance separation requirements.
10:59:55 We do not require a wet zoning petition to go through
10:59:58 a CSE and the site review process that's being
11:00:02 discussed currently with regard to stormwater.
11:00:04 So I just wanted to caution council with regard to
11:00:07 >>ROSE FERLITA: That's not a criteria that wave to use
11:00:10 to make our decision.
11:00:11 >>CATHLEEN O'DOWD: Yes.
11:00:13 It's my understanding that was part of the criteria,
11:00:16 and previous council changed that process.
11:00:18 It was considered too onerous and it was taken out of
11:00:22 the review process.
11:00:23 >>ROSE FERLITA: As a follow-up, if this is not
11:00:25 supposed to be a criteria that I use on the wet zoning
11:00:28 approval, when they go to start constructing the
11:00:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Already up.
11:00:34 >>ROSE FERLITA: Then wouldn't the stormwater issue
11:00:36 already have been addressed?
11:00:39 >>CATHLEEN O'DOWD: I have to defer to CSE on staff.
11:00:41 >>ROSE FERLITA: It's been taken care of, you think?
11:00:44 >>HEATHER LAMBOY: Land development.
11:00:47 Would I be happy to call CSE and check to make sure
11:00:49 the building permit complies with the conditions that
11:00:52 the council set if you would like me to.
11:00:53 >>ROSE FERLITA: But something had to be monitored
11:00:56 because Mrs. O'Dowd told me something that I should
11:00:58 have remembered but I didn't, that we are talking
11:01:00 about a wet zoning, we are not talking about
11:01:02 stormwater compliance.
11:01:03 >>HEATHER LAMBOY: This is prior to my time but when a
11:01:06 site plan is approved the copy of the site plan that
11:01:08 has little renderings is approved, all the conditions
11:01:11 are sent over to construction services, and that copy
11:01:13 is referred to when the building permit is issued to
11:01:16 ensure that those conditions are met.
11:01:17 >>ROSE FERLITA: That changes my concerns.
11:01:22 And I'm ready to move forward.
11:01:24 On that basis I'm going to support it.
11:01:27 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second on the
11:01:29 Roll call vote.
11:01:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No, and strictly, strictly on the
11:01:34 basis of the compatibility issue not related to
11:01:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
11:01:41 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Yes.
11:01:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
11:01:44 >>SHAWN HARRISON: No.
11:01:46 >>ROSE FERLITA: Yes.
11:01:47 >>KEVIN WHITE: Yes.
11:01:49 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder and
11:01:50 Harrison voting no.
11:01:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Madam Chairman, I still would
11:01:54 request if Mrs. Lamboy could check with CSE.
11:01:58 And also, I can't remember why we decided to
11:02:01 disconnect wet zonings from people meeting the CSE
11:02:04 permits but seems to me that that was a disconnect
11:02:09 that doesn't necessarily serve our community well.
11:02:12 I would really like --
11:02:16 >>KEVIN WHITE: A workshop on that?
11:02:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: People are smart alacks.
11:02:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I don't remember the conversation
11:02:27 at the time that was the catalyst for our disconnect.
11:02:32 But it seems to me that there's a logical nexus
11:02:34 between a place needing code and then asking for the
11:02:36 privilege of selling alcohol, that there should be
11:02:38 some kind of connection there.
11:02:40 So I guess I would like legal to come back in 30 days
11:02:42 with a written report on sort of the history of how we
11:02:46 got here.
11:02:48 >>CATHLEEN O'DOWD: If I may.
11:02:50 I have been talking to staff at LDC on looking at
11:02:53 comprehensive changes to chapter 3 and possibly moving
11:02:56 some of those provisions into chapter 27, which would
11:02:58 make the wet zoning approval process part of your
11:03:01 zoning code.
11:03:02 And then we could look at the criteria that attached
11:03:04 to other rezonings, and whether it would be
11:03:07 appropriate for this type of petition.
11:03:09 Staff is going to be coming before council, I'm not
11:03:13 sure when, requesting a workshop date, so that we can
11:03:16 talk about all of those provisions.
11:03:18 The reason being over the last two years, council has
11:03:20 made many motions with regard to chapter 3,
11:03:24 moratoriums, dealing with wet zonings and
11:03:27 entertainment districts, and we would like the ability
11:03:29 to discuss all of those issues comprehensively with
11:03:32 council, do one change to the ordinance rather than
11:03:36 the continued piecemeal fashion that we have been
11:03:38 amending chapter 3 in.
11:03:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:03:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So was that a motion?
11:03:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No.
11:03:45 I guess my motion then, I'll withdraw it and assume
11:03:47 you are going to come back with a general workshop
11:03:50 type thing.
11:03:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
11:03:52 would like to speak on item 42?
11:03:55 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Move to close.
11:03:57 >> Second.
11:03:57 (Motion carried).
11:03:57 >>ROSE FERLITA: Move the following ordinance after
11:04:00 second hearing, ordinance making lawful the sale of
11:04:03 beverages regardless of alcoholic content, beer wine
11:04:05 and liquor, 3 PS, in sealed containers for consumption
11:04:08 off premises only at or from that certain lot, plot or
11:04:11 tract of land located at 16041 Tampa Palms Boulevard,
11:04:15 Tampa, Florida, as more particularly described in
11:04:17 section 2 hereof, waiving certain restrictions as to
11:04:19 distance based upon certain findings, providing for
11:04:22 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
11:04:24 effective date.
11:04:24 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
11:04:26 Question on the motion.
11:04:27 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I am not going to support this for
11:04:30 much the same reasons as Mr. Dingfelder on the last
11:04:33 This particular location, Publix has been there
11:04:36 We have already -- one of the things we did back in
11:04:40 '99 or 2000, we rejected a liquor store in this
11:04:43 particular shopping center because it's within about
11:04:48 two or 300 feet from a church, there are also -- there
11:04:53 is within the shopping center a children's toy store
11:04:58 and a bike store, and we are waiving -- there's
11:05:01 already several wet zonings within the shopping
11:05:03 I just don't feel like this particular location is
11:05:06 appropriate for a liquor store.
11:05:10 So I will not support this.
11:05:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
11:05:13 Mr. Harrison, thank you for giving us the local
11:05:16 That's something that a member of council brings to
11:05:20 the table.
11:05:21 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
11:05:23 Roll call vote.
11:05:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No.
11:05:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No.
11:05:27 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Yes.
11:05:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
11:05:30 >>SHAWN HARRISON: No.
11:05:32 >>ROSE FERLITA: Madam Chairman, based on the
11:05:33 information that Mr. Harrison gave, I read the
11:05:37 What happens if I don't want to support it?
11:05:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The maker of the motion does have to
11:05:48 vote in support of it.
11:05:50 Also if you are on the prevailing side -- that's an
11:05:53 interesting thing.
11:05:54 >>SHAWN HARRISON: See what happens and we can move to
11:05:57 reconsider if you want.
11:05:58 There's still one person that hasn't cast a vote.
11:06:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Hold on a second.
11:06:04 This is a tough one.
11:06:06 You're in the middle of a roll call.
11:06:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: She's already voted?
11:06:13 >>ROSE FERLITA: I said by moving the ordinance I think
11:06:15 I voted.
11:06:16 But --
11:06:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Under Roberts rules the maker of the
11:06:21 motion has to vote in support of it.
11:06:24 >>GWEN MILLER: You can't speak, we have a motion on
11:06:26 the floor.
11:06:27 Ms. Ferlita?
11:06:30 >>ROSE FERLITA: I didn't realize it was in that close
11:06:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Who seconded?
11:06:39 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Me?
11:06:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do you want to withdraw your motion
11:06:50 >> She voted for it.
11:06:52 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The rule says the maker of the motion
11:06:55 must vote in support of it.
11:07:01 >>MARY ALVAREZ: We have had more fun today.
11:07:03 >>ROSE FERLITA: Let me just vote yes.
11:07:08 >>KEVIN WHITE: Yes, sir.
11:07:09 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder,
11:07:10 Saul-Sena, Harrison voting now.
11:07:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Now the maker of the motion or
11:07:14 anybody on the prevailing side can do a motion to
11:07:18 Ms. Ferlita, you can do a motion to reconsider.
11:07:26 >> I would like to make the motion.
11:07:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
11:07:33 >>GWEN MILLER: Let's hear from the petitioner.
11:07:39 >>MARTIN SHELBY: (Off microphone).
11:07:40 >>MARY ALVAREZ: She's the petitioner.
11:07:47 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion to reconsider.
11:07:50 >> Second.
11:07:51 [Motion Carried]
11:07:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you wish to open the floor again?
11:07:53 Motion and second.
11:07:55 All in favor say Aye.
11:07:59 >>> Grace: Representing petitioner.
11:08:01 One of the comments that I heard from Mr. Harrison was
11:08:02 his concern about proximity of various businesses in
11:08:08 the shopping center.
11:08:08 And I just wanted to state, as this is an issue
11:08:11 that -- a factor that council is considering, the bike
11:08:15 store, Mr. Harrison, that you mentioned currently
11:08:17 located in the shopping center, the proposed liquor
11:08:19 store would take over the space where the bike store
11:08:22 is currently occupying.
11:08:24 That is my understanding about the plans at the
11:08:27 shopping center.
11:08:27 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Which would move it right next door
11:08:32 to the children's toy store.
11:08:34 >>> Yes, sir.
11:08:34 Yes, sir, it would.
11:08:35 I will concede that.
11:08:37 But I just want to let you know that the bake store
11:08:39 would not be there anymore.
11:08:40 It would be the Publix liquor store would be taking
11:08:43 the place of the bike store space.
11:08:45 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I love that bike store.
11:08:48 I'm not going to support it.
11:08:50 >>> I am sorry.
11:08:51 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I'm just having fun with you.
11:08:53 I'm still not going to support it, though.
11:08:55 >>> I just want to make that clear, though, as this is
11:08:58 a factor that council is considering.
11:09:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to close.
11:09:02 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to close.
11:09:03 (Motion carried).
11:09:04 >>GWEN MILLER: What is the pleasure of council?
11:09:05 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Move for denial.
11:09:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
11:09:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second for denial.
11:09:09 >>THE CLERK: Alvarez and white, no.
11:09:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I guess I'm a little confused.
11:09:20 Maybe I wasn't as articulate as Mr. Harrison about
11:09:24 what's the difference between that Publix center and
11:09:27 the Publix center down in south Dale Mabry.
11:09:29 >>GWEN MILLER: He said the toy store.
11:09:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I do need to describe what's in
11:09:40 proximity of the churches that are nearby?
11:09:44 >> You can move to reconsider.
11:09:47 >>GWEN MILLER: We are not finished.
11:09:49 We have a ways to go.
11:09:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: She can move to reconsider.
11:09:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Number 41.
11:09:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
11:10:00 >>MARY ALVAREZ: You know, this is becoming ridiculous.
11:10:04 We vote it up or down, or nothing.
11:10:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Additional information is before
11:10:10 There's a legitimate motion.
11:10:13 >>GWEN MILLER: You gave us -- we took you at your word
11:10:17 with stormwater and we voted on it.
11:10:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But I specifically said I wasn't
11:10:20 speaking to stormwater.
11:10:21 I was speaking to the adjacent uses and the
11:10:24 inconsistent incompatibility.
11:10:26 Specifically as related to item 41.
11:10:29 And I will read what's nearby.
11:10:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: There's a motion on the floor to
11:10:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Mrs. Alvarez, come back for the vote.
11:10:39 We have a motion and second for reconsideration.
11:10:41 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
11:10:43 Opposed, Nay.
11:10:43 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 3 to 3?
11:10:47 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I voted against it the first time so
11:10:51 I vote with them.
11:10:51 >>GWEN MILLER: We've to wait for Mrs. Alvarez to come
11:10:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: While we are doing that let me
11:10:57 speak to what my support was about this.
11:11:00 Based on the proximity of Christ the king school, the
11:11:04 elementary school, Dale Mabry elementary, and there's
11:11:07 a junior high right in this spot.
11:11:11 And Christ the king church is about a block away.
11:11:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Right down the street.
11:11:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: First of all, if I can, council, I
11:11:21 missed exactly what Ms. Ferlita said about me being
11:11:26 aged this morning.
11:11:26 But --
11:11:32 >>: Starting to get it now?
11:11:33 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes.
11:11:34 Let me recap.
11:11:35 There was a 3-3 vote on a motion to reconsider.
11:11:37 Council's rules require that it be kept to the next
11:11:40 regular meeting.
11:11:40 Does council wish to --
11:11:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move we waive the rule and vote
11:11:45 again now.
11:11:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is there a second?
11:11:48 >> Yes.
11:11:48 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Vote on that to waive the rules?
11:11:51 A motion to waive the rules to allow that vote to be
11:11:54 taken again.
11:11:55 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Yes.
11:11:55 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
11:11:57 Question on the motion.
11:11:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to hear the report by
11:12:00 Mr. Dingfelder.
11:12:01 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion on the floor.
11:12:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This is for reconsideration.
11:12:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: We are not there yet.
11:12:07 >>SHAWN HARRISON: We are not there yet.
11:12:08 We are only voting on whether or not do we do it now
11:12:10 or do we have to wait to next week because Mary just
11:12:13 missed the vote.
11:12:15 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Oh, darn.
11:12:18 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion say Aye.
11:12:20 Opposed, Nay.
11:12:21 >>THE CLERK: Saul-Sena, no.
11:12:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Now there is no motion on the floor
11:12:27 except for the revote on the motion to reconsider.
11:12:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If I can just speak to it, the only
11:12:37 thing I wanted to say -- I think it's legitimate just
11:12:41 to say that exhibit D-2 --
11:12:44 >>: Didn't reopen it.
11:12:47 >> Elementary, chapel, public library and fire station
11:12:50 number 14 are within the 1,000 feet.
11:12:54 And that's all I wanted to say for the record.
11:12:56 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a vote on the floor.
11:12:58 We --
11:13:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: (Off microphone)
11:13:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It has to do with the
11:13:10 >>KEVIN WHITE: But it's a closed --
11:13:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm not talking about voting on the
11:13:17 Publix itself, I'm talking about voting on the
11:13:21 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a tie vote on the
11:13:24 What's your vote?
11:13:26 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I vote not to reconsider.
11:13:31 It was approximate-3.
11:13:33 She broke the tie.
11:13:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Now we need to vote again to see if
11:13:36 anybody wants to reconsider the reconsideration.
11:13:39 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Come on, John.
11:13:45 >>MARTIN SHELBY: (Off microphone)
11:13:54 >>THE CLERK: The motion was made by Linda Saul-Sena to
11:13:58 have the reconsideration on the vote on item number
11:14:02 At the time it was made the motion was not adopted
11:14:06 because Miller, Ferlita and white voted against the
11:14:16 >>GWEN MILLER: We vote for reconsideration on item
11:14:18 number 41.
11:14:19 All in favor say Aye.
11:14:20 Opposed, Nay.clerk.
11:14:26 Now is there anyone in the public that would like to
11:14:27 speak on 43?
11:14:30 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Put to the rest, guys.
11:14:32 >> Move to close.
11:14:33 >>: Second.
11:14:33 (Motion carried).
11:14:33 >>KEVIN WHITE: Move to adopt the following ordinance
11:14:37 on second reading an ordinance in the general vicinity
11:14:39 of 3112 and 3116 west Azeele and 404 south Matanzas in
11:14:45 the city of Tampa, Florida and more particularly
11:14:47 described in section 1 from zoning district
11:14:49 classification RM-24 residential multifamily to PD
11:14:52 single family attached providing an effective date.
11:15:00 >> Roll call vote.
11:15:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What number?
11:15:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Excuse me.
11:15:03 Before we vote on this, did we receive a subsequent
11:15:07 staff report, and was the list of people who voted
11:15:11 first time accurate?
11:15:12 Because I notice on the previous one it wasn't.
11:15:15 It said that Ferlita was absent.
11:15:17 I believe she voted against the earlier one.
11:15:23 Staff, did you receive a more recent staff report?
11:15:26 The staff report I have on this petition had a number
11:15:28 of objections.
11:15:32 The one I have is dated --
11:15:38 >>MARY ALVAREZ: 1-19?
11:15:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No.
11:15:40 That's what I'm asking, Mrs. Alvarez.
11:15:42 I'm trying to find a recent staff report.
11:15:48 Dated 1-19 and it has objections from land
11:15:51 And I wondered if there was a more recent one than
11:15:54 >>MARTY BOYLE: Land development.
11:15:56 Staff report you have, the last one was dated 1-19.
11:16:00 However, in the presentation to you, I let you know
11:16:03 that the petitioner had come in with notes to satisfy
11:16:06 the objections that we had.
11:16:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
11:16:09 >>THE CLERK: Item 34th 3, Harrison and white were
11:16:18 absent at vote.
11:16:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's a legitimate question.
11:16:26 >>GWEN MILLER: Voice roll call.
11:16:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Aye.
11:16:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
11:16:31 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Yes.
11:16:33 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Yes.
11:16:36 >>ROSE FERLITA: Yes.
11:16:37 >>KEVIN WHITE: Yes.
11:16:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
11:16:39 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
11:16:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
11:16:42 would like to speak on item 44?
11:16:44 >> Move to close.
11:16:45 >> Second.
11:16:45 (Motion carried).
11:16:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder, would you read 44?
11:16:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I would be glad to.
11:16:50 I move for second reading to adopt an ordinance on
11:16:53 second reading an ordinance rezoning property in the
11:16:56 general vicinity of 5117 north 17th street in the
11:16:59 city of Tampa, Florida and more particularly described
11:17:00 in section 1 from zoning district classifications
11:17:03 RS-60 residential single family to PD church providing
11:17:07 an effective date.
11:17:07 >>GWEN MILLER:
11:17:08 >>: Second.
11:17:09 Ding your.
11:17:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
11:17:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
11:17:12 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Yes.
11:17:13 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Yes.
11:17:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
11:17:15 >>KEVIN WHITE: Yes.
11:17:17 >>ROSE FERLITA: Yes.
11:17:17 >>ROSE FERLITA: When did you say this thing is going
11:17:20 to get fixed?
11:17:21 >>GWEN MILLER: It takes so long.
11:17:30 So it works but we are not using it.
11:17:33 >>GWEN MILLER: It takes so long.
11:17:34 >>KEVIN WHITE: It's antiquated already.
11:17:37 >>MARY ALVAREZ: $30,000.
11:17:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 45.
11:17:40 Is there anyone in the audience to speak on item 45?
11:17:43 Would you please stand and raise your right hand?
11:17:45 (Oath administered by Clerk).
11:17:49 >>KEVIN WHITE: 45 or 46?
11:17:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Staff.
11:17:59 >>THE CLERK: This is 5 and 45.
11:18:02 >>GWEN MILLER: 5 and 45.
11:18:07 >>ROY LAMOTTE: Transportation manager.
11:18:12 At our last meeting held on January 5th, the
11:18:16 transportation objects to vacate, we continued that
11:18:20 We also were instructed to see if we could meet with
11:18:23 petitioner to see if from was anyway that we could
11:18:26 work out a situation where they could utilize a piece
11:18:29 of this right-of-way in order to execute turning
11:18:32 maneuvers, to get into their property.
11:18:34 We did meet with them on January the 18th at 1:30
11:18:38 to discuss the topic, and legal was present at that
11:18:43 Mr. Santiago was there with me.
11:18:45 And we explained to the petitioners that they were
11:18:48 talking from a conceptual viewpoint, and that they
11:18:52 would need to come in with a site plan and also show
11:18:54 us the affected land contiguous to the property that
11:18:57 would be affected.
11:18:59 We also indicated to them that if they were to take
11:19:02 any clearing on this particular parcel that they would
11:19:04 need to get a site clearing and tree removal permit,
11:19:07 and most of all we told them not to touch any grand
11:19:10 trees in this particular area.
11:19:12 We have not seen any site plan to date.
11:19:14 We did send staff out to look at the particular
11:19:19 I wish to share four photographs with you of the
11:19:22 particular issue so that you can understand it easily.
11:19:26 I'll put those on the Elmo at this time.
11:19:29 Basically, this is the limousine service, contiguous
11:19:34 to the property.
11:19:35 You can see there's an alleyway, with their parking
11:19:40 To the left of their property.
11:19:42 This is the particular right-of-way that's unimproved.
11:19:46 Ifs contiguous to the.
11:19:49 You can see the cars backing up to the.
11:19:51 What we did witness is not just maneuverability but
11:19:54 actual parking on this right-of-way and the prevailing
11:19:57 There's also some question in my mind whether this
11:19:59 particular area has been disturbed.
11:20:02 It doesn't look recently, but it is removing, and
11:20:06 obviously you can see there's a vehicle, Lima seen,
11:20:10 parked contiguous to it.
11:20:12 At this time we do not wish to move forward with the
11:20:14 petition, and suggest that the situation be objected
11:20:17 and that the petitioners have actually outgrown their
11:20:22 There's 20 limousines working on this particular
11:20:25 And I think more importantly, Mr. Graham will address
11:20:30 any issues related to grand trees in this area.
11:20:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Did we receive a written report
11:20:39 from transportation?
11:20:40 >>GWEN MILLER: She want to know if you got a written
11:20:45 report from transportation.
11:20:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Did we receive a written report
11:20:49 from you all?
11:20:52 >>> No, ma'am. If you asked for a written one I
11:20:54 apologize and would be glad to submit one to you.
11:20:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: If I may, I think it would be
11:20:59 really useful when we have requests, and the
11:21:02 administration has objections, for us to have a
11:21:05 written report, because it helps us with a written
11:21:10 record for the clerk, and for our own understanding,
11:21:13 because sometimes you're saying things and we are
11:21:15 looking at the pictures and we might not absorb it
11:21:18 I think that would be really helpful.
11:21:21 >>ROY LAMOTTE: We'll be glad to do that in the future
11:21:23 for you.
11:21:23 >>ROLANDO SANTIAGO: Legal department.
11:21:29 Just wanted to clarify for you, procedurally you have
11:21:31 already -- the hearing was held before.
11:21:35 Staff presented to you their report.
11:21:37 Mr. LaMotte has come back to you today to report to
11:21:39 you as to the meeting that we had with the petitioner.
11:21:42 At this point, you will be turning this petition
11:21:46 over -- this hearing over to the petitioner to respond
11:21:49 to anything that Mr. LaMotte said and you will be able
11:21:52 to proceed.
11:21:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Did we receive anything written the
11:21:55 first time around?
11:21:56 My little notebook doesn't have anything from you all
11:21:58 that's written that says that the staff objects to
11:22:00 >>ROLANDO SANTIAGO: I believe what you have received
11:22:05 was the report that's typical with these vacating
11:22:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have the request.
11:22:11 I don't have any kind of staff response to it that
11:22:13 indicates either support or objections.
11:22:15 I'm just saying that it would really help for us to
11:22:17 have something written from the staff saying they
11:22:22 think it's a good idea or not a good idea.
11:22:25 Do you have something that you have that maybe hasn't
11:22:27 gotten shared with us?
11:22:28 >>ROLANDO SANTIAGO: If you give me a second.
11:22:31 I'm looking through my report. The report that I have
11:22:33 shows an objection.
11:22:37 Let me see.
11:22:39 Give me one second, please.
11:22:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes, don't have a copy.
11:22:48 Thank you.
11:22:48 >>ROLANDO SANTIAGO: The original report that came
11:22:50 through with the agenda, if you will note, department
11:22:52 of public works has an objection.
11:22:54 And they refer to sheet 3.
11:22:56 And that is a copy of what Mr. LaMotte also provided.
11:23:01 So I venture to say at this point this is the report
11:23:05 that you have got, and any further discussion on that
11:23:08 is what was provided for you this morning.
11:23:11 >> Eights check-off and it says yes, there are
11:23:15 So I'm just saying in the future there F there are
11:23:18 objections it would be helpful to have a little
11:23:20 write-up on it.
11:23:21 Thank you.
11:23:25 >>ROLANDO SANTIAGO: Without further ado, the
11:23:26 petitioner is here to answer any questions you may
11:23:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
11:23:33 >>> Andy Mitz, 201 North Armenia Avenue, 33609.
11:23:39 I have been sworn on behalf of petitioner magic
11:23:45 We were able to meet with staff in terms of any
11:23:47 alternative uses, and the conclusion was pretty much
11:23:51 if we wanted to make any improvements at all to the
11:23:53 right-of-way, that we would have to build a road to
11:23:57 city specifications and standards in order to make use
11:24:00 of that right-of-way.
11:24:05 That usual you does not seem to be cost effective to
11:24:09 the intended use in terms of building a road there,
11:24:13 essentially a road to know where.
11:24:15 We were informed at that hearing by Mr. Santiago that
11:24:18 we could use the right-of-way in its current use, and
11:24:20 I think that's what's happening at this point.
11:24:25 We would seek -- I guess the tree issue raises an
11:24:28 interesting issue, if there are trees there that need
11:24:31 to be protected, then it would seem that there
11:24:34 wouldn't be the opportunity to create a north-south
11:24:38 access roadway there, if there are trees that need to
11:24:42 be protected.
11:24:46 I think there would be an additional initia that there
11:24:50 would not be any objection by transportation, because
11:24:53 there wouldn't be the ability to use it if there are
11:24:56 trees that need to be protected.
11:24:58 Obviously those trees would be protected in any future
11:25:01 development or use by the petitioner.
11:25:07 We would ask that the petition to vacate be granted.
11:25:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Questions by council members?
11:25:14 >>ROSE FERLITA: Yes, I do have a question.
11:25:15 I know that transportation was not in favor of this
11:25:17 and I think that council was respectful of their
11:25:20 But I thought the reason that you all went back to
11:25:22 talk to the petitioner was to see if there was
11:25:25 something to be done that maybe short of that still
11:25:28 would allow them access and use.
11:25:29 So it makes sense that forget about the issue of the
11:25:34 trees, but that they were going to be building a road,
11:25:37 that they would use but really had no ownership off.
11:25:40 And then the attorney for the petitioner just said
11:25:42 something that again, they can use it as it is?
11:25:46 >>ROLANDO SANTIAGO: Yes, ma'am.
11:25:47 We discussed a number of options.
11:25:49 And what we have got here is a public right-of-way.
11:25:53 It's just not an improved right-of-way.
11:25:55 So there's nothing to prevent a person from going onto
11:25:57 that now.
11:25:58 It is a right-of-way.
11:25:59 It happens that there are trees on it so maybe it's
11:26:01 not readily available for a vehicle to go down it.
11:26:04 But certainly a person could meander down it.
11:26:07 But now you have a conflict.
11:26:08 Because you see what they need it for is -- only a
11:26:12 portion of it is perhaps a turn-around for limousines.
11:26:16 Can they go upon that right-of-way now?
11:26:18 It's dirt and grass.
11:26:19 There might be trees there.
11:26:21 Assuming for sake of argument that there's a clearing
11:26:26 where they want to do a turn-around it's a public
11:26:29 right-of-way, they can go upon it and use it for a
11:26:31 turn-around area.
11:26:33 To vacate it, now it loses that quality of being
11:26:36 available to the public.
11:26:37 They would also be required to do whatever
11:26:41 improvements which now they are looking at those
11:26:43 trees, a series of other elements but that's correct
11:26:46 right now it's a public right-of-way.
11:26:47 >>ROSE FERLITA: So they could try to just clear an
11:26:50 area if they could maneuver their limousines around it
11:26:53 without the cost of putting the road in there which
11:26:55 would be a road to a property that they don't own.
11:26:59 >>> Effectively.
11:27:00 >>ROSE FERLITA: So the maneuvering around the
11:27:02 unimproved area is not something that your client -- I
11:27:05 mean, seems like costwise, that's the way I would go.
11:27:08 >>ROLANDO SANTIAGO: I believe they would have to go
11:27:12 through some hurdle, for example, they would have to
11:27:14 investigate whether the area they want for a
11:27:16 turn-around is clear or not clear, there are trees,
11:27:19 are there any protected trees that would have to be
11:27:22 So we would have to go down that particular
11:27:26 >>ROSE FERLITA: I thought that was part of the
11:27:28 discussion to support what transportation said or
11:27:30 recommended, and for the Pater to be able to use that
11:27:33 undeveloped area.
11:27:33 So that wasn't part of the discussion?
11:27:35 >>ROLANDO SANTIAGO: It was.
11:27:36 Transportation, you don't want to speak for Roy, but
11:27:39 transportation objects to it being vacated.
11:27:42 Once we start talking about clearing trees and using
11:27:45 that area, city would have no exclusivity, but in
11:27:54 determining whether or not that area can be cleared.
11:27:55 Then you flip it back to the petitioner, I believe --
11:27:58 again I don't want to speak for him -- then you have
11:28:00 the concern that if they do that, can they improve it?
11:28:03 Because maybe the turn-around at that area will create
11:28:06 that mud spots or just -- all it is is dirt.
11:28:08 So it really kind of goes from transportation.
11:28:11 They object to the vacating and that's their purview,
11:28:14 is vacating and whether it's needed for future
11:28:17 transportation purposes.
11:28:18 And we have the petitioner that is looking at, can I
11:28:21 use it? Yeah, you can, it's a public right-of-way, it
11:28:23 just happens to have obstruction, it's unimproved.
11:28:27 If I improve it can I remove trees?
11:28:29 Now you have to go to a different body.
11:28:32 >>ROSE FERLITA: Obviously the best scenario for them
11:28:34 would have been to vacate it and transportation is
11:28:37 saying no, already, we have gone beyond that hurdle.
11:28:39 And if they go to business services and say yes, then
11:28:42 do they come back to us?
11:28:44 >>ROLANDO SANTIAGO: I believe it would be a permit
11:28:46 process to remove those trees, if they are removable.
11:28:50 >> To remove trees that are unprotected and they could
11:28:52 use it without developing it?
11:28:54 Because it doesn't make any sense for a private person
11:28:55 to pay for a road that's not theirs.
11:28:59 I mean, I would like to know the sense is of where you
11:29:05 want to go since your first choice appears to be out.
11:29:11 >>> Obviously the first choice, if it's mutually
11:29:13 exclusive as we were told, and I'm meeting with
11:29:17 transportation from some right-of-way clearing comment
11:29:19 or other permit, to alter or improve the right-of-way
11:29:22 in some way.
11:29:27 Obviously we would like to have the right-of-way
11:29:31 That's what this petition is about.
11:29:31 We are told we would have to go through another
11:29:33 process if we wanted to make improvements to use it,
11:29:36 if it was not vacated.
11:29:38 >>ROSE FERLITA: That's what I'm saying.
11:29:40 You certainly thought about that.
11:29:41 And it just seems that's your only alternative.
11:29:44 The bad deal is too bad you're in the business of
11:29:48 limousines as opposed to motorcycles, and I'm not
11:29:51 trying to be funny.
11:29:52 Then you wouldn't have any problem getting around the
11:29:54 trees. But to respect what they want and still have
11:29:56 something that's functional for your client's
11:29:58 business, seems like that's the next best thing.
11:30:01 Go over and see what can be taken out of the way
11:30:03 without damaging the protected trees, try to maneuver
11:30:05 around that.
11:30:06 At least it's hopefully a long-term temporary fix, but
11:30:10 a temporary fix nonetheless.
11:30:12 I don't know.
11:30:14 I was trying to accommodate you and I really don't
11:30:16 know how, I guess is what I am saying.
11:30:19 >>> We really don't know how either other than go at
11:30:24 that other process.
11:30:25 But I don't see how they are connected at this point.
11:30:29 You know, this process is one.
11:30:30 That process is another.
11:30:32 I would like to connect them.
11:30:33 I don't know how I can.
11:30:36 >>ROSE FERLITA: I think that's what transportation is
11:30:40 telling you, the fact that council didn't support it
11:30:42 the first time around, what we are trying to tell you,
11:30:44 But maybe the other route -- you have to develop some
11:30:47 of it because if it's a muddy area and you're moving
11:30:51 limos to pick up passengers you probably don't want
11:30:54 the limos dirty.
11:30:55 I think that's the only route you can go.
11:30:57 I wish I had some sort -- some sort of solution for
11:31:01 Maybe somebody else wants to weigh in on this.
11:31:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to close.
11:31:05 >>CHAIRMAN: Mrs. Alvarez.
11:31:09 Always Alvarez Mr. Santiago or Mr. LaMotte.
11:31:12 We're talking about a right-of-way that's a dead-end,
11:31:18 >>ROY LAMOTTE: It goes through the area, ma'am.
11:31:20 It can be passed through.
11:31:21 You kind of see a travelway, through the Elmo right
11:31:28 >> But it's pretty much a dead-end
11:31:31 From what I read.
11:31:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mary, look at the map.
11:31:37 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Is there any plans to improve this in
11:31:38 the near future, like maybe 20 years?
11:31:43 >>ROY LAMOTTE: That's a good possibility.
11:31:46 >> A good possibility?
11:31:47 >>> It's not in our five year plan right now.
11:31:49 I'm just saying if it's in the 20 year window it's
11:31:52 very possible.
11:31:53 >> It could be but it's not right now.
11:31:55 >>> That's correct.
11:31:55 >>: So in 20 years anything can happen.
11:31:57 >>> Yes, ma'am.
11:31:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Except if we vacate it, it won't
11:32:02 ever be a public road because they couldn't.
11:32:04 Because once they vacate it, it's gone.
11:32:06 >>MARY ALVAREZ: But if this gentleman decides --
11:32:09 suppose we allow it to be vacated, and it would be his
11:32:16 property then, and then he can improve it.
11:32:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Or build a building on it.
11:32:20 >>MARY ALVAREZ: He would still have to come to us for
11:32:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I agree with rose wholeheartedly.
11:32:35 I think we would like to help you and your clients.
11:32:37 But in this particular case, there's a couple of
11:32:39 We have a right-of-way, transportation hurdle.
11:32:42 And now we have a grand tree hurdle.
11:32:46 But I think that the solution would be a right-of-way
11:32:49 You personally know how much it would cost to push
11:32:52 down some of those non-grand trees.
11:32:54 And I think that our staff wouldn't have a problem if
11:32:57 you punished down those pine trees.
11:32:58 We have pictures here of little pine trees.
11:33:00 You can push down those pine trees.
11:33:03 The non-grand trees, don't think staff is going to
11:33:07 care and don't think council will care and I think
11:33:09 that would help your client's situation.
11:33:11 So I can't support the vacating but I clearly do not
11:33:13 have any problem with clearing those non-grand trees.
11:33:18 It not in our purview.
11:33:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. LaMotte, I think it would be
11:33:23 helpful if you put this picture up on the Elmo that
11:33:25 shows what they are asking to be vacated.
11:33:27 I'm looking at it.
11:33:29 It appears that there's a road to the north.
11:33:31 There's a road to the south.
11:33:32 And based on that I'm going to move to close the
11:33:35 public hearing.
11:33:36 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Second.
11:33:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
11:33:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Close the public hearing.
11:33:44 >>GWEN MILLER: You wanted to see it?
11:33:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just wanted to see it.
11:33:48 (Motion carried).
11:33:49 >>GWEN MILLER: What's the pleasure of council?
11:33:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to deny the request for
11:33:53 >> Second.
11:33:53 (Motion carried).
11:33:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Information.
11:33:58 Mr. White, do you have information?
11:34:00 >>KEVIN WHITE: None right now, Madam Chair.
11:34:04 >>ROSE FERLITA: None.
11:34:07 >>MARY ALVAREZ: No.
11:34:08 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Yesterday the county commission
11:34:10 voted to allow a cable franchise for Verizon, and just
11:34:20 maybe have a written report from staff by next week as
11:34:23 to when they think the negotiations will continue with
11:34:28 the City of Tampa and what the T pro sees will be.
11:34:33 Two weeks is fine.
11:34:34 >> Second.
11:34:34 (Motion carried).
11:34:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Madam Chairman.
11:34:40 Three quick things.
11:34:41 One is a brochure for everyone to look at that's rule
11:34:44 great called streets and sidewalks, people in cars.
11:34:48 This is to traffic calming, certainly something of
11:34:50 interest to all of us.
11:34:51 I'll pass those around.
11:34:52 Secondly, we are all invited to a seminar next Friday
11:34:58 on sustainable development called smart sustainable
11:35:02 Tampa Bay.
11:35:03 I'll pass those around for everybody.
11:35:06 Lastly, there was some conversation that came from the
11:35:10 school board meeting we attended last week about
11:35:15 paying for schools and one issue was a one-half cent
11:35:19 of sales tax to go to schools.
11:35:20 And I'm very concerned that if we spend a half penny
11:35:25 sales tax on schools that we won't have any money to
11:35:27 go to -- any sales tax to look at in the future for
11:35:31 And perhaps a better way to look at it would be a
11:35:35 quarter cent for schools and quarter cent for roads.
11:35:37 And I don't think that there's any action that council
11:35:40 needs to take.
11:35:41 But I would just like you all, as you talk to school
11:35:44 board members and county commissioners, to consider
11:35:47 that the two biggest needs in our community, I
11:35:49 believe, for either of my constituents, are roads and
11:35:53 So I think it would be unwise for us to commit the
11:35:57 entire half cent to schools without considering the
11:35:59 transportation needs at the same time.
11:36:01 So I wanted to share this with you.
11:36:04 And provide this as food for thought.
11:36:07 I know this is something that will be moved upon very
11:36:10 But it's something that because it's so effects Tampa
11:36:14 citizens we should certainly develop our policies
11:36:17 about the future and discussing this with our other
11:36:22 elected officials.
11:36:23 Thank you.
11:36:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
11:36:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes, ma'am.
11:36:26 I received correspondence from Roosevelt elementary
11:36:29 school, in my district.
11:36:31 You might recall, immediately adjacent to Roosevelt,
11:36:37 kind of bisecting the Roosevelt campus is Takon
11:36:43 And right now the school is allowed to close Takon
11:36:47 street from 7:30 in the morning till 3:30 in the
11:36:50 The principal has asked us if we would consider
11:36:55 extending the hours of closure from 6 in the morning
11:36:57 until 8 in the evening, because of the early-morning
11:37:02 activities pre-school, and then in the afternoon and
11:37:05 early evening activities that go on at the school.
11:37:08 And she's very concerned about safety of her students
11:37:11 and her parents.
11:37:12 So I don't think that that poses a burden on the
11:37:15 If it did I wouldn't propose it.
11:37:17 I would like a council-initiated modification of
11:37:20 ordinance 6710-A, which is the current ordinance
11:37:26 that's in place, to amend that to extend the hours
11:37:30 from 7:30 to 3:30 and extend it to 6 in the morning
11:37:34 till 8 in the evening.
11:37:35 That would be a full public hearing process.
11:37:40 Plenty of notice.
11:37:41 Plenty of public input.
11:37:42 But she's asking if we would initiate that.
11:37:44 And I'll move that.
11:37:46 >> Second.
11:37:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I guess it's just to start the
11:37:51 And Mr. Cook and Mr. Santiago will guide us along.
11:37:57 >>JAMES COOK: Land Development Coordination.
11:37:59 I'll pass it on to transportation.
11:38:00 That answer falls under their preview.
11:38:03 That would be Roy LaMotte's group since they regulate
11:38:06 the opening and the closing of the streets.
11:38:07 >>GWEN MILLER:
11:38:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So Roland, you will work with
11:38:11 transportation to get that ordinance passed?
11:38:15 >>ROLANDO SANTIAGO: Yes.
11:38:15 I'm familiar with that.
11:38:17 You may have gotten a letter that I wrote.
11:38:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Super.
11:38:21 >>ROSE FERLITA: John, I think that's a worthwhile
11:38:25 If I'm understanding it correctly the neighborhood
11:38:27 will have the opportunity to weigh in, right?
11:38:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
11:38:34 Roland, full public hearings on that, anybody who
11:38:37 wants to give input can give it at that time, right?
11:38:39 >>ROLANDO SANTIAGO: Yes, sir.
11:38:40 It will come back to you as -- we have got the zoning
11:38:43 ordinances and we got what I term the run of the mill
11:38:46 Then we'll come back.
11:38:47 It's like an encroachment, a vacating.
11:38:50 The first hearing is not published. The second one
11:38:56 >> Will there be signs posted?
11:38:57 >>ROLANDO SANTIAGO: No, sir.
11:38:58 It will come up as your consent agenda on the very
11:39:01 first one.
11:39:02 That's the floor, not the ceiling.
11:39:03 If it's council's request we can also publish notice.
11:39:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think the thought is we should
11:39:08 put a notice on either end of the street.
11:39:10 So whoever needs to do that --
11:39:14 >>ROLANDO SANTIAGO: If you make that part of the
11:39:16 motion that when come back --
11:39:19 >>: Put some signs up.
11:39:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: One or either end of the street so
11:39:22 everybody knows and it's not a surprise.
11:39:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's my motion.
11:39:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
11:39:29 (Motion carried).
11:39:30 Anything else, Mr. Dingfelder?
11:39:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's all.
11:39:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Shelby?
11:39:35 >>THE CLERK: Receive and file.
11:39:38 >> So moved.
11:39:38 >> Second.
11:39:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to receive all
11:39:44 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Don't you have anything?
11:39:44 >>GWEN MILLER: No
11:39:50 We are going to go to the general public.
11:39:53 Is there anyone in the public that wants to speak at
11:39:56 this time?
11:40:00 We'll be in recess till 1:30.
11:40:06 (City Council in recess at 11:42 a.m.)