Tampa City Council
Thursday, June 15, 2006, 8:30 a.m.
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08:40:48 >>The Community Redevelopment Agency is now called to
08:40:55 Roll call.
08:40:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
08:40:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
08:40:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
08:40:59 >>SHAWN HARRISON: (No response)
08:41:02 >>KEVIN WHITE: Here.
08:41:03 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Here.
08:41:04 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Mr. Smith?
08:41:07 You're up.
08:41:11 >>DAVID SMITH: I had an opportunity top review -- I
08:41:44 had an opportunity to discuss this with almost all of
08:41:47 you at one point so you know what the position is in
08:41:49 that regard.
08:41:49 What I am primarily going to do this morning is tell
08:41:52 you what the recommendation is in light of that, and
08:41:54 it is that you approve the modification as it exists,
08:42:00 and that you also pass a resolution approving a
08:42:05 memorandum of understanding, which I outlined briefly
08:42:08 in the memorandum.
08:42:11 You have too many memorandums floating around but I'll
08:42:14 walk you through it.
08:42:18 It's very brief.
08:42:26 Essentially what this does is we have a memorandum of
08:42:31 understanding between the city, the agency, and the
08:42:38 With respect to the issues that were raised by the
08:42:40 county at their last meeting.
08:42:42 It includes all the issues raised with two exceptions.
08:42:46 One exception is the appointment of two members to the
08:42:49 agency, and you have my legal memorandum explaining
08:42:54 why we can't do that.
08:42:56 And the other thing it does not include is the
08:42:59 requirement that the Tampa apartments be treated in a
08:43:07 zoning context which I believe that request has been
08:43:10 indicated as being withdrawn by one of the members
08:43:12 from the county commission.
08:43:13 I don't know if the county commission themselves took
08:43:16 But that is attempted to be pulled off the table and
08:43:21 we can't do it anyway.
08:43:23 It would be illegal for us.
08:43:26 We know that.
08:43:26 I think the suggested idea is off the table.
08:43:33 So it track it is language that was contained in the
08:43:36 county attorney's letter which I believe you all got
08:43:40 copies of.
08:43:40 The only difference, I will point out to you, is, the
08:43:44 only difference which exists, which I will point out
08:43:47 to you is section 2, subparagraph D.
08:43:50 It says protect and improve current businesses.
08:43:54 I think the language in the summary from the county
08:43:58 attorney said retain and enlarge.
08:44:01 The difference between protect and retain, I hope, is
08:44:04 evident from the language.
08:44:06 We can do certain things to try to protect those but
08:44:11 can't be sure that every business will stay up and
08:44:13 operational and can't ensure that every business will
08:44:16 So we can certainly try to help them improve to the
08:44:19 extent you can spend TIF dollars for those purposes
08:44:22 which is very limited to begin with.
08:44:24 So what this does is the whereas clauses simply recite
08:44:29 the background, that is pursuant to the agreement
08:44:32 entered into in March 13 of 2003, there's a process
08:44:37 established by agreement between the two governments
08:44:40 as to how new community redevelopment areas, agencies,
08:44:48 are established.
08:44:49 And it indicates in subparagraph 1, or paragraph 1,
08:44:52 the county shall have the right to appoint and
08:44:55 designate two members to the citizens advisory board.
08:44:57 Now I added some language to that as well.
08:45:00 The language I added is that we don't typically
08:45:03 appoint members to the citizens advisory committees.
08:45:07 They come largely from the community that's served by
08:45:11 the redevelopment.
08:45:13 And fortunately, it comes out of the citizens
08:45:19 So the point is not quite the thing we do.
08:45:21 I don't want to mislead anybody with regard to what we
08:45:24 are trying to accomplish.
08:45:26 Nonetheless, this says we will allow the county to
08:45:29 appoint designate or identified two representatives to
08:45:33 participate in that Citizen Advisory Committee.
08:45:39 The second point, as I have indicated literally, is
08:45:42 the summary from the letter with the exception of
08:45:45 subpart D.
08:45:50 Just indicates it will become effective on execution,
08:45:53 can't be any changes other than as provided in
08:45:56 writing, and number 5, this is a prelude to further
08:46:02 cooperation with the county in this regard, and
08:46:05 hopefully that will in fact come into fruition.
08:46:08 So my recommendation to you today is that you approve
08:46:11 the existing modification as is, it is the one that is
08:46:16 consistent with the current interlocal agreement, and
08:46:19 that you also by resolution approve this memorandum of
08:46:22 understanding as a basis to proceed now and in the
08:46:26 And I'll reserve any response later.
08:46:29 But if there's any questions in this regard I would be
08:46:32 glad to answer.
08:46:32 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Any questions?
08:46:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: David, was there any discussion in
08:46:42 come up with this -- and I see there's county folks
08:46:46 here that maybe they can respond to this as well -- if
08:46:50 they designate two members to the CRA advisory board,
08:46:56 which I have in a problem with and I doubt this board
08:46:58 has any problem with, but should that be limited to
08:47:02 city residents?
08:47:02 Or could that be limited to city residents?
08:47:05 Was there any discussion about that?
08:47:07 And the reason I say that is this is a city project,
08:47:11 you know, Central Park Village, deep into the city,
08:47:16 and the county has plenty of city residents that they
08:47:19 could pick from.
08:47:22 >>DAVID SMITH: You're absolutely correct.
08:47:23 And TECO's response to that -- I apologize for the
08:47:27 length of this but as now much of this has been
08:47:29 involved since it first came up roughly six or seven
08:47:33 days ago.
08:47:34 Those are the sorts of things that lawyers are always
08:47:38 concerned about when they move with haste.
08:47:40 That's why it's always advisable to try to work these
08:47:44 types of issues for awhile so you can get them vetted
08:47:48 and little flaws are exposed and you can solve them.
08:47:52 There's probably a lot of details here that you may
08:47:54 want to consider, that being one of them.
08:47:58 It's not a requirement in what I drafted today that
08:48:03 they be citizens.
08:48:04 I don't know if the county would have a problem with
08:48:06 that but right now it is not in the agreement as
08:48:09 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I was going to say that we do have --
08:48:18 I believe it's Pat Bean, the administrator, and Thomas
08:48:23 Scott, the commissioner, and Rene levy, county
08:48:29 We would like to hear from you all.
08:48:31 We would like to limit your responses to three
08:48:35 Thank you.
08:48:37 Ms. Lee.
08:48:39 >>> Good morning members of the board, staff.
08:48:42 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Before you start I would like to
08:48:45 listen to all the comments before we ask questions.
08:48:56 >>> Good morning, members.
08:48:57 I'm Renee Lee, county attorney.
08:49:01 As you have noted for the record, I do have a
08:49:03 representative of the board with me this morning,
08:49:06 commissioner Tom Scott, the county administrator Pat
08:49:10 Bean, and other staff members who participated in this
08:49:15 The part about being here is to request that you pass
08:49:20 the fourth modification to the CRA interlocal
08:49:22 regarding the community development.
08:49:26 The Central Park community redevelopment.
08:49:28 As you know, the city presented Central Park community
08:49:32 redevelopment plan to the Board of County
08:49:33 Commissioners on June 7th.
08:49:37 After several hours of discussion, the board accepted
08:49:40 the terms of the agreement that the city submitted and
08:49:44 requested that additional provisions be included in
08:49:46 the agreement.
08:49:49 I prepared a short form of those items for you, and
08:49:53 you see them here on your screen.
08:49:55 These are the requested modifications to the city's
08:49:58 proposal that the county submitted.
08:50:00 I think you have had them in a letter from me before
08:50:04 to your council as well as from Commissioner Scott to
08:50:08 the chair of this board, or to the City Council.
08:50:16 The county hopes that this board will accept its
08:50:19 recommendation and allow greater citizen input and
08:50:22 participation by allowing the county to appoint two
08:50:26 citizens to the advisory board.
08:50:28 I just heard the discussion by the city attorney to
08:50:33 the residency of those citizens that we are asking to
08:50:37 be appointed.
08:50:37 Let me suggest to you that it does not matter to the
08:50:41 county whether they are city or county residents.
08:50:45 The purpose of this, of course, was to allow the
08:50:48 citizens of Central Park Village to have more say in
08:50:52 the plan.
08:50:54 So we certainly are satisfied as members from that
08:50:59 community, for other city citizens, if you would like.
08:51:04 The city attorney has reviewed the county's proposal
08:51:08 and has recommended to the board that many of them be
08:51:13 We want to express our appreciation to the city
08:51:16 attorney for those recommendations and hope that this
08:51:19 board will accept them.
08:51:23 The county believes that the legislature has given us
08:51:26 an opportunity.
08:51:29 Effective July 1st, the CRA board can include a
08:51:33 member of a taxing authority.
08:51:36 This is a change from before, when commissioners were
08:51:39 prohibited from serving on the CRA.
08:51:48 It's the same authorization by the legislature that
08:51:50 allows you to sit as a City Council member and the CRA
08:51:56 The legislature says it can be done and should be done
08:52:00 through the interlocal document, which is before you
08:52:05 Let's take a look at two ways the Community
08:52:09 Redevelopment Agency can be established.
08:52:13 And I have some handouts for you.
08:52:21 Do you have those?
08:52:21 Would you allow the council to see those?
08:52:23 (Bell sounds).
08:52:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to waive the rules.
08:52:32 >> Second.
08:52:33 >> Thank you, board.
08:52:34 I won't have much more.
08:52:36 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Motion and second to waive the rules.
08:52:38 (Motion carried).
08:52:42 >> Thank you very much.
08:52:43 There are two ways to establish a Community
08:52:46 Redevelopment Agency.
08:52:48 One, the City Council by ordinance can have a CRA
08:52:55 board with between five and nine members.
08:53:02 The second way to do it is to appoint yourself the CRA
08:53:04 agencies by resolution.
08:53:06 This is a short brief statement of the law.
08:53:09 The law as it will go into effect on July 1st now
08:53:13 says that you can add members to the CRA board from a
08:53:21 taxing authority through an interlocal agreement.
08:53:24 That's what we are asking you to do today.
08:53:27 We are not asking you to violate any law.
08:53:29 We are not asking you to do something
08:53:35 This has been authorized by the legislature of the
08:53:37 State of Florida.
08:53:45 This is something we would ask you to do effective
08:53:48 July 1st.
08:53:52 There are no ordinances that are required to implement
08:53:54 There is no ten-day notice period.
08:53:57 There is no public input required.
08:53:59 There's no due process that's breached here.
08:54:03 You will see that the city attorney's memo references
08:54:06 all of those procedures.
08:54:10 You will find that the law only requires that we amend
08:54:14 the interlocal agreement to allow two members of the
08:54:16 Board of County Commissioners to sit there.
08:54:26 I know this has raised many questions with the board
08:54:28 and I have asked Mary Helen FARRA to address those
08:54:33 I believe you have a copy of that memorandum and Mary
08:54:35 hell sen here today, and I would ask that she would
08:54:38 come up with me and present some of the issues in her
08:54:42 Let me just give you a little bit about Mary Helen
08:54:47 She is a statewide expert in this area.
08:54:50 We are very lucky to have her on staff.
08:54:51 She's right now the president of the local government
08:54:55 section of the Florida Bar.
08:54:57 She is well respected.
08:55:02 Her opinion is well received on these issues and I
08:55:04 believe you will be satisfied when you hear her.
08:55:06 I believe that the city attorney has not only
08:55:09 misunderstood the county's request but has
08:55:14 mischaracterized the county's request.
08:55:17 The county has no intention of repudiating the
08:55:22 It has no intention of creating an anticipatory
08:55:27 >> How much longer do you have?
08:55:29 >> Two more minutes, please.
08:55:31 >> Two more minutes?
08:55:31 >> Yes.
08:55:34 >> Okay.
08:55:36 >> They are scary words to some people. The county
08:55:38 has no intent.
08:55:42 We are here today to tell you that we want to enter
08:55:44 into this agreement with you.
08:55:49 Maybe I should start with what the county does not
08:55:51 We don't want to abolish the CRA.
08:55:55 We don't want you to create a new CRA.
08:55:58 We don't want to take away any of your current powers.
08:56:01 We don't want to unvest any grandfathered in CRAs.
08:56:09 Regarding the grandfathering in, you probably know
08:56:11 that the interlocal that you have before you, the
08:56:14 original document, grandfathers in some of the
08:56:17 original CRAs that you have.
08:56:21 Ybor City CRA, old Tampa police station.
08:56:24 There is no intent by the county to disturb those
08:56:28 CRAs that you have in place.
08:56:33 The county simply wants a voice, a seat at the table,
08:56:36 an opportunity to be heard.
08:56:40 Some of you have asked, why now?
08:56:41 And that's because the legislature has just authorized
08:56:44 The county was not in a position before, even though
08:56:47 it makes a substantial investment to the CRAs.
08:56:51 And we have our budget director here today, Eric
08:56:54 Johnson, who can provide you with a financial report
08:56:58 of the amount of money that the county contributes to
08:57:02 the CRA.
08:57:03 And I think you will hear from him that in this next
08:57:07 year, you will be receiving over $11 million from the
08:57:12 county to CRAs.
08:57:14 So it's an important investment.
08:57:18 By the county.
08:57:19 Commissioners, I encourage you to embrace this, the
08:57:22 spirit of the new law, the spirit of inclusion and
08:57:27 I encourage you to amend the interlocal so that two
08:57:30 commissioners can sit on the board of the Community
08:57:33 Redevelopment Agency with you.
08:57:36 Thank you very much.
08:57:38 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Thank you.
08:57:48 >>> Mary Helen Ferris of the county attorney's office.
08:57:53 I will be very brief.
08:57:54 I was asked to review with you House bill 1583 in
08:57:57 light of the prohibition on dual office holdings.
08:58:01 And what I have found is the Florida supreme court and
08:58:04 the attorney general in an opinion has held that the
08:58:06 legislature may Constitutionally impose additional
08:58:10 duties on an officer and therefore not violate the
08:58:13 Constitutional prohibition of dual office holding.
08:58:16 You will notice in the wording of the bill itself, it
08:58:18 says that two or more -- or two commissioners can be
08:58:24 appointed whose membership on the board of the agency
08:58:27 would be considered an additional duty of the office
08:58:30 of a member of the taxing authority.
08:58:32 This language was specifically added, I believe, the
08:58:36 day before the bill was actually voted on, to make
08:58:38 sure that the dual office holding prohibition was not
08:58:43 This is the language that was tracked in the cases in
08:58:46 the attorney general's opinion.
08:58:48 I believe you have a copy of my memorandum.
08:58:51 If not I would be happy to provide it to you.
08:58:54 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Anyone else?
08:59:02 Ms. Bean?
08:59:03 >> I'm Pat Bean, the county administrator for this
08:59:05 wonderful county, and this brings back wonderful
08:59:09 memories, even though you changed the room a bit since
08:59:12 I worked here, but some of you know that I did work in
08:59:16 this very building on the 7th floor for a number
08:59:18 of years before I left to go to the county.
08:59:25 What I want top stress to you is maybe to help you
08:59:28 understand why the county believes it's important that
08:59:32 two members of our board, now that the legislature has
08:59:34 allowed for that to occur.
08:59:37 I think that's important.
08:59:39 All residents who live in this county are county
08:59:46 You provide municipal services for those that live
08:59:50 within the boundaries of the city.
08:59:52 But there are many services that the county has to
08:59:56 provide that you don't contribute money for, but the
09:00:01 county has to pay for those services.
09:00:05 We pay for the services of running the jail, which
09:00:09 your residents when they get themselves in trouble
09:00:14 have to go to.
09:00:15 We have the obligation to not only operate the
09:00:17 existing jails but to continue to build jails in order
09:00:21 to accommodate our growth in population and the growth
09:00:25 in crime.
09:00:28 We also have certain responsibilities under state law
09:00:31 that you don't have for clerks, even though we have a
09:00:38 successful excursion, I would call it, into making a
09:00:41 change in that with the article 5 issue that was on
09:00:44 the ballot several years ago, we still have a number
09:00:46 of duties as far as buying or paying for certain
09:00:51 things, certain services that are provided to the
09:00:53 courts, making them capable and providing court
09:01:00 related services to all residents including the three
09:01:03 Those are two.
09:01:04 But then there's also -- an array of social services.
09:01:10 We provide services to the elderly population of this
09:01:13 community countywide.
09:01:14 We provide services to children who are taken from
09:01:17 their homes by the state because of abuse and neglect,
09:01:23 We provide library services.
09:01:26 We provide a whole array of services that you don't
09:01:31 contribute to, but the county does.
09:01:35 Why am I saying all of that?
09:01:37 The reason I'm saying all of that is because it is the
09:01:39 countywide fund that you get the money for the CRA,
09:01:48 and we believe that over the life of the CRAs that
09:01:52 you have already created and the ones that you are
09:01:54 talking about creating now, that we are talking about
09:01:56 a significant amount of money, if you're as successful
09:02:01 as we believe you will be in redeveloping these areas.
09:02:04 And we need to be able to have a voice at the table
09:02:07 because those dollars that are going into the CRAs
09:02:11 that are not available for us to fund the service that
09:02:15 is we have to provide on a countywide basis.
09:02:18 So I wanted you to understand that that's a very real
09:02:20 issue for us.
09:02:23 In fact, I will tell you that in talking with the
09:02:25 mayor, in a meeting a month or so ago, I told her that
09:02:30 as county administrator, I can't recommend that the
09:02:32 county agree to any further CRAs, because of that
09:02:36 (Bell sounds).
09:02:39 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Thank you, Ms. Bean.
09:02:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Could I ask you a question?
09:02:42 Thank you, pat.
09:02:43 And thank you for come down and bringing your staff.
09:02:45 It's a great staff and I enjoyed working with many of
09:02:50 >> You know they are not really all my staff anymore.
09:02:52 The county attorney's office is an independent office
09:02:56 But I'm glad to have them here.
09:02:57 And they are great.
09:02:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I was wondering about your total --
09:03:03 your total budget for your general budget.
09:03:16 I've lost track of how big it is.
09:03:18 But what is the total budget in the county and what is
09:03:20 the total budget for the service is that is you just
09:03:22 described, the countywide budget, I guess is what I'm
09:03:25 talking about.
09:03:26 >> Well, I'm probably going to let Ann Johnson come up
09:03:29 and answer the specifics.
09:03:30 The total budget for the county is 3.4 billion
09:03:38 But that includes the transfers and a lot of things
09:03:41 that you can't really say we are spending 3.4 billion
09:03:44 for services because of transfers.
09:03:47 >> The pass throughs and things like that.
09:03:49 >> Yes.
09:03:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But how about the county --
09:03:52 >> I am going to let Eric answer that.
09:03:54 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I think we are just going to stick to
09:03:57 what --
09:03:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I need an answer to this question,
09:04:00 Just let them answer, please.
09:04:02 Thank you.
09:04:04 It will take one second.
09:04:08 >> Eric Johnson, manager of budget.
09:04:11 Over $400 million in the countywide general fund.
09:04:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
09:04:15 Thank you.
09:04:15 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Commissioner Scott, did you want to
09:04:20 say something?
09:04:26 >> Madam Chair, I don't want to say anything but I did
09:04:29 forget to pass out the fourth modification that the
09:04:33 county has submitted.
09:04:34 And I would like to submit that to the board now.
09:04:36 >>MARY ALVAREZ: thank you.
09:04:40 Mr. Smith?
09:04:41 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
09:04:51 We do not have the authority lawfully to do what we
09:04:55 are being asked to do today.
09:04:58 It may become lawful if the amounts provided by the
09:05:02 county is correct, post-July 1.
09:05:05 I don't necessarily agree with that.
09:05:06 But let's assume that is the case.
09:05:09 We can't do it now.
09:05:11 What are we really asking the county to do?
09:05:13 Today what we are asking the county to do is to live
09:05:16 up to its existing agreement with the City of Tampa.
09:05:20 The county is coming to us and asking us to go ahead
09:05:23 and preemptively change that agreement to bring them
09:05:26 in as a partner and as a participant.
09:05:29 Partly, I guess, to increase citizen participation.
09:05:33 Now those who ever attended our CRA meetings, or
09:05:36 watched them on TV because they are scintillating,
09:05:39 know that we have a tremendous amount of citizen
09:05:41 There is a lot of energy expended in talking with the
09:05:45 people of the areas to be designated, and there's a
09:05:48 lot of citizen involvement in that process.
09:05:51 They pretty much select their advisory committees
09:05:55 We don't have a problem with resident participation.
09:05:59 But we do have a problem with attempting to do
09:06:02 something you don't currently have the legal authority
09:06:04 to do.
09:06:05 And as your city attorney, I recommend strongly you
09:06:08 not do that.
09:06:09 If the county wants to work with us in good faith, and
09:06:12 if in fact we have the ability to do this after July
09:06:15 1, presuming for sake of argument, then they can
09:06:18 establish the bona fides by living up to their current
09:06:22 agreement and approving this area.
09:06:24 And then we can look at that issue post-July 1, and
09:06:28 determine whether there was the need to change the
09:06:30 basis in which we cooperate with one another.
09:06:34 My point is, we want to work with the county, not for
09:06:37 the county.
09:06:40 And to provide leverage out of a situation like this,
09:06:45 one should be slightly dubious about that.
09:06:47 Let's get on the same page.
09:06:48 Let's talk about this.
09:06:50 Let's vet it.
09:06:51 Let's take it as a deliberate rah tiff and considerate
09:06:56 Let's not bring it up at the last minute.
09:06:58 Let's not proceed when we don't have an opportunity to
09:07:01 fully review all the consequences and all the
09:07:04 And let's not do it as a condition precedent to doing
09:07:07 that which you have already contractually committed to
09:07:11 That just doesn't seem to be the way you want to
09:07:13 proceed with a partner.
09:07:15 If we are going to be partners, then we should be.
09:07:17 And let's focus on the positive side of this.
09:07:19 I think it's imperative that we improve our
09:07:22 relationship with the county, and they with us.
09:07:24 It's a two-way street.
09:07:25 We want to go down that street.
09:07:27 There's a lot that needs to be done.
09:07:28 But it needs to be done as equal partners, not as a
09:07:32 subservient partner.
09:07:34 It needs to be done as equal partners.
09:07:36 And if they live up to their obligations and do what
09:07:38 they should do and approve the CRA I'm sure we will be
09:07:41 happy to visit any issues they want us to visit post
09:07:44 July 1, if and when that law becomes effective, and if
09:07:48 and when the procedure for its implementation is
09:07:50 clear, and if and when I can come before you and tell
09:07:52 you, you can do that in a way that does not jeopardize
09:07:56 the city.
09:07:56 I cannot tell you that today.
09:07:58 That is why I am recommending -- and there's nothing
09:08:00 that we can't do post-July 1, that we are being told
09:08:06 we need to do before July 1.
09:08:08 If we can in fact amend the who interlocal agreement,
09:08:13 we can amend the interlocal agreement after July 1.
09:08:15 So I think you have an excellent opportunity to test
09:08:18 the commitment of your erstwhile partner or future
09:08:21 Are they really going to work with us to accomplish
09:08:24 things that are for the good of the city?
09:08:26 Or is this not in fact what their intention is?
09:08:29 I like to believe and think it is the former, that
09:08:31 they do want to work with us.
09:08:33 But let's make sure they do what they currently are
09:08:36 obligated to do and proceed with us down this path.
09:08:41 I have a very different opinion from the one expressed
09:08:43 to you by Mary Ellen -- and she's an excellent lawyer
09:08:46 and a fine person.
09:08:48 My view of that is first of all it's a Constitutional
09:08:52 It's article 2, section 5-A.
09:08:54 The legislature has put in this new as-yet unsigned
09:08:59 bill the statement that you can add other members,
09:09:04 members and other taxing authorities, and it is not in
09:09:08 fact a stepping office, it is simply additional
09:09:13 responsibilities of their initial office.
09:09:14 But if you read the cases -- and I read every one of
09:09:18 them -- and if you read the age old opinions -- and I
09:09:21 have read every one of them -- there's a poems of that
09:09:25 view and it's the doctrine of compatibility. The
09:09:28 offices are not in fact the same.
09:09:29 If there's an incompatibility between discharge of the
09:09:32 two offices.
09:09:33 I think what you heard today was there is inherent
09:09:37 incompatibility in this, because there is a
09:09:40 competition for scarce dollars.
09:09:42 So we have a problem with that.
09:09:44 Perhaps it's a problem that over time we might be able
09:09:47 to solve.
09:09:47 I do not have a solution for it today.
09:09:49 And I think it would be a mistake to do anything of
09:09:52 the nature you are being asked to do.
09:09:54 Let's proceed under the current agreement, if the
09:09:59 county will live up to its agreements, get this thing
09:10:01 set and get moving, and then we can look at whatever
09:10:03 else is appropriate down the road.
09:10:05 So I don't think you need to do anything other than
09:10:09 proceed as you have been proceeding.
09:10:11 And my recommendation to you is that we do abide by
09:10:14 the current interlocal agreement, because I think it
09:10:16 is a binding document.
09:10:18 And I won't go into great detail because I think it's
09:10:21 important we work on a favorable relationship with the
09:10:23 But you know it's my view -- and I said it in the
09:10:26 memorandum -- that they have in fact not complied with
09:10:28 the terms of that agreement, and that this is not in
09:10:30 compliance with the terms of that agreement.
09:10:32 But let's try to focus on the positive.
09:10:35 Let's get this new area established and start working
09:10:38 for the people of that area, and then we can see what
09:10:41 we need to do post-July 1.
09:10:44 If there are any questions I would be happy to answer
09:10:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Two things, David.
09:10:49 One, in regard to clarifying this Constitutional
09:10:52 issue, if we -- this legislation just came into effect
09:11:00 this session, correct?
09:11:02 >> It's not in effect yet.
09:11:04 It was just passed by this session.
09:11:06 >> Another month, July 1st.
09:11:10 I guess what you're saying is that -- here's a
09:11:16 If other municipalities adopt, put this into play,
09:11:19 which I guess they might actually do across the state,
09:11:22 it they might see this legislation, they might be the
09:11:26 first ones to step forward and do that, at which point
09:11:28 there might be a court case to challenge that, or to
09:11:31 address that issue.
09:11:33 If the court decision comes out in favor of it in
09:11:37 saying that the dual office holding is appropriate,
09:11:42 or, you know, that it's not dual office holding, and
09:11:44 the court -- and it will probably go all the way up to
09:11:48 the supreme court.
09:11:49 In other words, it's going to take a couple of years
09:11:51 for the court to wrestle with this but after that
09:11:53 process we can see potentially that it could work,
09:11:56 then you're saying that we could do that at that point
09:11:58 in time.
09:11:59 That's question number one.
09:12:02 Smith that's a possibility, right?
09:12:04 >>DAVID SMITH: Want me to answer --
09:12:07 >> Yes, otherwise I'll lose track.
09:12:09 >> I'll lose track, too. That's certainly a legal
09:12:12 And that's why I'm saying if there's something that is
09:12:15 appropriate after July 1, that's the time to look at
09:12:17 We'll have an opportunity to clarify a lot of that.
09:12:20 >> The courts could wrestle with it in another
09:12:22 jurisdiction, we could see how it plays out there.
09:12:25 >>DAVID SMITH: And there may be ways to resolve the
09:12:27 issues that are attendant to the document
09:12:30 incompatibility, and interlocal agreement.
09:12:33 But it's not something that we can jump into without a
09:12:36 great deal of thought.
09:12:38 And then the.
09:12:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: In reading your eleven-page
09:12:42 memorandum that you and Sal and others worked very
09:12:44 hard on and we appreciate, the other thing that jumped
09:12:48 out at me big time is -- let's see if I can find what
09:12:53 page it's on -- is this issue of the vesting of the
09:12:58 city CRA, the -- we have been in the CRA business
09:13:02 since 1982.
09:13:08 But so our CRA is vested back to that point in time.
09:13:14 I think what you're saying in this memo is that
09:13:17 there's some risk, and we put our vesting status at
09:13:21 risk if we go ahead and change this, because then our
09:13:25 new vesting status would be 2006.
09:13:29 >>DAVID SMITH: That is what I'm saying in the
09:13:32 Now that's an issue we can look at if in fact this
09:13:35 becomes the law and see if we can mitigate those types
09:13:38 of impact.
09:13:39 But I think if someone is asking you to do something
09:13:41 which is fraught at the level of risk this is, whether
09:13:44 it's a small risk, or a big risk, that needs to be
09:13:48 thought out very carefully.
09:13:50 Language in an interlocal agreement if one is to be
09:13:55 amended needs to be carefully researched.
09:13:57 Unfortunately, can't blame Sal for this one.
09:13:59 This is most of my doing.
09:14:00 But he did offer some advice.
09:14:02 So the errors in there unfortunately are mine as well.
09:14:05 I do agree with the comment that I read recently in
09:14:09 the paper that the law is what the court says it is
09:14:12 and the issues or opinions with respect to
09:14:13 Constitutionality are that, opinions.
09:14:15 There are issues about -- there's lots of issues that
09:14:19 can come up.
09:14:20 These are all issues that can be looked at, and if you
09:14:22 want to go in that direction post July 1, will be
09:14:26 looked at.
09:14:26 But it doesn't make any sense to do that, and do that
09:14:29 in the -- you have an excellent opportunity to test
09:14:34 the commitment of your potential partner.
09:14:36 And I think that's very important.
09:14:37 Because if we are working under an interlocal
09:14:40 agreement that's essentially a contract, we need to
09:14:42 make sure that everybody is committed to the terms of
09:14:44 those contracts equally.
09:14:48 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Any other questions?
09:14:54 >> I will close by saying my recommendation is still
09:14:56 to you to approve the fourth amendment to the
09:14:59 interlocal agreement as prepared by us, as your staff,
09:15:03 and to, by resolution, approve the memorandum of
09:15:08 understanding, which will serve as it says in
09:15:11 paragraph 5, to developing further cooperation with
09:15:15 the county.
09:15:17 That is something that is important for you, for them
09:15:19 and for the citizens of our area.
09:15:21 And we need to work on that and work seriously on it.
09:15:29 >>MARY ALVAREZ: So we have a resolution.
09:15:35 Like a motion, Ms. Saul-Sena.
09:15:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I very much appreciate the
09:15:41 involvement of the county.
09:15:42 And I very much appreciate the work that our attorney
09:15:47 David Smith has put into this.
09:15:48 I think that his long memo to us clearly states what
09:15:56 his counsel is to us as members of the CRA, and with
09:16:00 all that taken into consideration, I move this
09:16:02 >>MARY ALVAREZ: And second?
09:16:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Second.
09:16:05 >>MARY ALVAREZ: We have a motion and second.
09:16:08 Any discussion?
09:16:09 Discussion on the motion?
09:16:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
09:16:12 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Let me ask Mr. White.
09:16:14 >>KEVIN WHITE: Thank you, Madam Chair.
09:16:16 It's amazing to me to see that we have so many lawyers
09:16:24 that are present, and everyone still, all these legal
09:16:28 minds, and everyone still has differences of opinions.
09:16:31 We probably would have a million dollars worth of
09:16:34 legal opinions in here probably a year, and we still
09:16:39 can't come to a single agreement.
09:16:43 With that being said, I am also going to go along with
09:16:49 supporting our resolution, and the reason for that is
09:16:56 we each pay our legal advisors and hire our legal
09:17:03 advisors to give us independent and best advice, to
09:17:07 guide us in the direction in which we should go.
09:17:10 We have hired city attorney David Smith, and our City
09:17:17 Council attorney, Martin Shelby, who is not
09:17:20 necessarily involved in this, but that's our legal
09:17:22 team, that's our legal staff, that's who we pay,
09:17:24 that's who we hang our hat on, that's who we depend on
09:17:27 to guide us down the right path, and to go down that
09:17:32 road and see the light coming at the end of the tunnel
09:17:34 and hope it's not the train.
09:17:36 And if it is, then they are going to represent us at
09:17:39 the end.
09:17:40 I believe Mr. Smith, as far as I'm concerned, the most
09:17:43 convincing point of this argument that persuaded me is
09:17:49 we are trying to put something into law, today, that
09:17:51 does not exist the speed limit in Florida used to be
09:17:57 It's now 70 on the interstate.
09:17:59 But you couldn't go 70 before that law was enacted, if
09:18:05 you did you got a ticket.
09:18:06 And I just think it's putting the cart before the
09:18:09 I look forward to working with the county on this
09:18:12 particular issue after July 1st if in fact this is
09:18:16 indeed signed.
09:18:17 It is not even signed yet.
09:18:19 It is not law.
09:18:20 It is proposed law at this point in time.
09:18:22 I want to thank Commissioner Scott for each and every
09:18:24 one of his recommendations.
09:18:25 And some of the things here, I as well as my
09:18:30 colleagues, I and I think Gwen Miller have been
09:18:35 fighting for, with minority participation and
09:18:37 Those are some of the things that are most passionate.
09:18:40 If we are going to displace people, we need to make
09:18:43 sure that people have the opportunity to reinvest and
09:18:45 make money and take part in economic gain on a
09:18:50 community that they are being displaced from, as well
09:18:53 as have the opportunity to come back if that is what
09:18:56 they choose to do.
09:18:57 And I think at the end of the day, I think everything
09:19:03 will work out for the residents of Park Village,
09:19:06 because not only at the end of the day, but it should
09:19:10 be totally about the best interest of the people in
09:19:14 Central Park.
09:19:15 It's not about the city.
09:19:16 It's not about the county.
09:19:17 It's not about the CRA.
09:19:18 It's about the people that have elected us to serve
09:19:22 and represent them and represent them in the best
09:19:24 capacity possible.
09:19:26 And it's not about dollars, it's not about a
09:19:29 developer, it's about the City of Tampa, and its
09:19:33 And for the county residents and their level of
09:19:37 support that each one of the elected officials can
09:19:41 give them.
09:19:43 I think the residents of Central Park Village deserve
09:19:46 nothing but the best in their representation.
09:19:49 And I also believe they have it on the city and county
09:19:52 And I don't think that one disagreement or one issue
09:19:59 that can't come to complete and total resolve should
09:20:02 stop the progress of a people and of a particular
09:20:07 And I don't think that we should let that happen at
09:20:13 this point in time.
09:20:14 And, again, Commissioner Scott, I want to say thank
09:20:18 And no disrespect to you, no disrespect to the county,
09:20:24 this is our legal staff that we have to deal with and
09:20:27 rely on.
09:20:29 And it's just as simple a basis as that.
09:20:32 Thank you, Madam Chair.
09:20:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is Ed Johnson here?
09:20:44 Commissioner Scott's 4-page memo from last week, there
09:20:48 was discussions about our handling of CRAs.
09:20:54 And you are our CRA director for East Tampa, and
09:20:58 maybe -- is that -- that's enough probably.
09:21:03 Which is a huge amount.
09:21:08 My question to you is, I think that the county, and
09:21:16 many of their folks are here today, need some
09:21:18 reassurance of how we are handling our existing
09:21:22 Because there's a little bit of question that, you
09:21:25 know, we don't have the ability or capability and we
09:21:27 are not doing a good job on the existing ones,
09:21:30 therefore, you know, what are we going to do on
09:21:33 Central Park?
09:21:34 So I would like you to just give us a very brief
09:21:37 moment to tell us about what are we spending money on
09:21:42 in the East Tampa CRAs and specifically Commissioner
09:21:46 Scott addressed the police station issue.
09:21:48 I think you should clarify the police station issue.
09:21:52 >>> Ed Johnson, East Tampa, development manager.
09:21:55 I'll address the issue around the Tampa Police
09:21:58 Department construction.
09:22:01 The community has a very viable interactive community
09:22:11 group that has been working with us on this East Tampa
09:22:14 CRA since we started it.
09:22:17 They have designated a 7-member Executive Committee
09:22:21 that makes recommendations to you, the board, to
09:22:27 respond those TIF dollars with recommendations from
09:22:30 the staff.
09:22:30 One of the issues that was discussed in the newspaper
09:22:34 was about the Tampa Police Department construction
09:22:38 That project to date is approximately a $9.3 million
09:22:42 construction budget to build that police headquarters.
09:22:45 The community was in support of the mayor's request to
09:22:49 support the police department in building this,
09:22:53 administrative headquarters in East Tampa.
09:22:54 They committed in fiscal year 2005 funds TIF dollars
09:23:00 to go into the construction budget.
09:23:03 At that time the construction budget was posed to us
09:23:06 at $4.5 million.
09:23:08 Three years ago to now, that budget is $9.3 million
09:23:12 price tag.
09:23:14 I'll be here a little later this morning asking you to
09:23:17 reallocate some funding from FY 06 and future FY 07
09:23:21 funding to go into the construction, final
09:23:24 construction project for this police headquarters,
09:23:27 which is now 9.3.
09:23:29 The total TIF involvement in the construction of this
09:23:32 police headquarters will be with the approval today of
09:23:36 this reallocation will be 1,525,000 of a $9.3 million
09:23:46 That represents about 16.4% of the overall budget of
09:23:49 the construction of that police department.
09:23:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What else are we doing with our TIF
09:23:57 moneys in East Tampa?
09:24:00 >>> I can assure you members that the majority of our
09:24:02 TIF budgets are used as leveraging tools to go in hand
09:24:06 with several projects that are up and coming.
09:24:11 Several projects that they are working on right now,
09:24:14 I'll give you as an example, the community was adamant
09:24:16 about trying to reshape and re-make the retention pond
09:24:22 in East Tampa.
09:24:23 As you know, we have 70 or 80 acres of retention pond.
09:24:27 The community wanted to make them more community
09:24:32 friendly, turn them into passive community park-like
09:24:37 TIF is funding three demonstration projects with TIF
09:24:41 dollars to be able to change the appearance of those
09:24:46 and create really a park-like setting with jogging
09:24:49 trails around them, picnic benches, enhanced light,
09:24:54 make them a real amenity for the community other than
09:24:57 just a hole in the ground.
09:24:58 Several other projects that they are working on, they
09:25:01 set aside dollars for infrastructure improvement to
09:25:04 all of their major corridors and roadways.
09:25:07 As you know we were just starting construction on the
09:25:09 Lake Avenue road enhancement project that started last
09:25:13 That's a $3 million project.
09:25:16 It has approximately $300,000 of TIF money that is
09:25:19 being leveraged into that project.
09:25:23 We will soon be going to design of 22nd street
09:25:26 that will run from 23rd Avenue to the south all
09:25:29 the way to Martin Luther King.
09:25:33 Those are the kinds of things this community is doing
09:25:36 with their dollars.
09:25:37 They are leveraging them, using them wisely.
09:25:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Ed.
09:25:42 Madam Chair, I'll just agree with the motion on this
09:25:45 I think our attorney David Smith has indicated that if
09:25:52 we adopt the county's proposal by putting the county
09:25:55 commissioners on the CRA board they could put our CRA
09:25:59 at risk.
09:26:01 It could put our CRA at risk.
09:26:03 David can't guarantee it.
09:26:05 They can't guarantee it on the other side of it.
09:26:07 Lawyers are just lawyers.
09:26:08 We give opinions.
09:26:09 Only the courts can make that final decision.
09:26:11 But David has indicated -- and he's our attorney --
09:26:14 that there is some serious risk in two or three
09:26:17 different categories.
09:26:19 I asked about some numbers earlier.
09:26:22 It's a lot of money.
09:26:24 10, $11 million a year is what I think I read in
09:26:27 Commissioner Scott's document, that he's concerned
09:26:33 But 10 or $11 million only represents one-third of one
09:26:37 percent of the total county budget, or two and a half
09:26:40 percent of the countywide budget.
09:26:43 So even though $11 million is a lot of money, it's
09:26:47 still an extremely small part of the total county
09:26:50 budget and the total countywide budget.
09:26:53 I know it will grow.
09:26:54 And I recognize that.
09:26:56 But the county is growing, too. And I'm going to
09:26:58 guess that they all probably grow at about the same
09:27:02 The other point I wanted to make is that Commissioner
09:27:08 Scott -- it's all about negotiation.
09:27:10 And it's about negotiation in good faith.
09:27:12 Commissioner Scott put on his thinking cap a week or
09:27:14 two ago, and made eleven suggestions that are on our
09:27:20 plate today.
09:27:20 And of our eleven we accepted nine.
09:27:26 We have accepted nine in good faith.
09:27:30 And we want to work on those very, very important
09:27:32 issues that Commissioner Scott has asked us to.
09:27:34 We can't agree to all of them, but that's just the way
09:27:38 negotiation goes.
09:27:39 So we'll throw back with this memorandum of
09:27:42 understanding, nine of the eleven back to you all, and
09:27:45 we really hope you all can pass it and work with us on
09:27:48 Central Park Village.
09:27:49 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Thank you.
09:27:51 Ms. Ferlita.
09:27:51 >>ROSE FERLITA: I just jotted some notes down as we
09:27:54 had some dialogue with different individuals and I
09:27:56 wanted to make some comments before we go forward with
09:27:58 the vote.
09:27:59 Kevin referenced the fact that we do have a lot of
09:28:02 legal advice here, and certainly I appreciate the
09:28:04 institutional knowledge that each of you bring.
09:28:07 I think it's prudent.
09:28:09 I think it's smart.
09:28:10 I think it's logical to sit back and hear all the
09:28:14 advice, whether it's the same or different opinions.
09:28:16 But ultimately, I think you know, ladies and
09:28:18 gentlemen, that the responsibility falls on the seven
09:28:20 people up here.
09:28:21 As elected officials after we take all the information
09:28:24 in, and all the recommendations and all the advice, we
09:28:27 have to decide which way we want to go as a CRA board.
09:28:31 And I think that brings to us where we are at this
09:28:33 very minute.
09:28:35 And I think what we are looking at today is absolutely
09:28:38 different and distinct from what will happen or could
09:28:43 happen July 1.
09:28:44 So I have to take that out of the way if I look at
09:28:47 what's before me and how I want to address it and how
09:28:49 I want to cast my vote.
09:28:52 I think -- not only do I think, I know that we are
09:28:55 committed to an agreement that we have to make a
09:28:56 better quality of life for our citizens.
09:29:02 Thank you, Mr. Smith.
09:29:03 And those citizens I might add are citizens of the
09:29:05 city and that's the focal point of what we should be
09:29:09 looking at.
09:29:10 I suspect that the sentiment as I listen to some of my
09:29:13 colleagues will be that's what's going to happen and
09:29:15 we are going to go forward with that contract.
09:29:17 We agreed to.
09:29:19 That should be the period -- the topic of the
09:29:23 discussion this morning, period.
09:29:24 End of story.
09:29:29 After this is discussion for next month.
09:29:31 The second portion of suggestions that I saw this
09:29:34 morning that I think is important enough to expand on
09:29:36 a little bit is the opportunity for some of our
09:29:41 advisory board to be board members that are
09:29:43 represented or appointed, or suggested, by county
09:29:47 I think that's good.
09:29:49 That's prudent.
09:29:50 Different suggestions, different opinions, will help
09:29:52 that process be even better at the end.
09:29:55 I think when you give responsibility or an opportunity
09:30:00 for a board to represent themselves by some advisory
09:30:04 board members, we shouldn't say, this is what we want
09:30:07 you to do, but then we are going to hold back and say,
09:30:10 but this is how you are going to do it.
09:30:12 I think if the consensus is -- and I suspect that it
09:30:15 is -- that we are going to allow some board members on
09:30:17 the advisory board to be representing the county, then
09:30:20 we shouldn't handcuff you in terms of where they come
09:30:24 I don't think it's a smart thing to distinctly pick a
09:30:27 person because of where they live in our community and
09:30:30 our county and our city, but mainly about what they
09:30:33 bring to the table of that advisory board.
09:30:35 So I think, ladies and gentlemen of the county
09:30:38 commission, that is your choice F. we are telling you
09:30:40 to bring somebody, then you should decide who is best
09:30:42 suited to represent you at that board.
09:30:45 But all that being said, I think we are taking care of
09:30:47 the business we have to take care of this morning, and
09:30:50 separate and divorced from that I want to tell you
09:30:52 that I don't find anything here this morning that we
09:30:54 have discussed regardless of the way this vote will be
09:30:58 cast that takes away or fragments what we should be
09:31:01 doing, what we should have been doing in the past and
09:31:03 hopefully what we will be doing in the future.
09:31:05 I think this still allows a regional attitude so that
09:31:09 the city and the county work together, and without
09:31:14 elaborating in many ways I look forward to that as I
09:31:17 continue to work with you.
09:31:18 I certainly appreciate all the time and effort of
09:31:21 everybody at the county, Commissioner Scott, thank you
09:31:24 for your thoughts.
09:31:24 But that's what it's about.
09:31:27 We look. Choose.
09:31:29 You go back and choose with the appropriate advice of
09:31:31 your staff. Anyway, thank you very much for your
09:31:34 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Anybody else?
09:31:35 We have a motion on the floor.
09:31:43 >> I would like to pass the copy of the resolution
09:31:45 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Ms. Bean, this is a little bit out of
09:31:48 procedure but I'll let you do that for one minute.
09:31:50 >> I think our board did the same thing last week for
09:31:53 your staff.
09:31:53 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Exactly.
09:31:55 >> I just wanted to be clear about one thing.
09:31:58 There is a requirement in the statute, 163, for the
09:32:03 CRA to report on an annual basis on the activities to
09:32:12 the county, because we are contributing to that.
09:32:15 And until last year, I believe, we never received a
09:32:20 report from the city, even though we requested it on a
09:32:23 regular basis.
09:32:25 Let me finish, please.
09:32:28 Secondly, there is an obligation in the law that if
09:32:34 you do not have specific plans and obligations for the
09:32:41 funds that are left in the account that were
09:32:44 contributed by one of the other contributors, being
09:32:47 the county, then you are to refund those dollars.
09:32:53 And we believe that there hasn't been adequate
09:32:56 documentation historically in the form of reports, nor
09:33:01 has there been adequate documentation of what plans
09:33:05 there are, and therefore why the city continues to
09:33:08 hold county dollars.
09:33:12 And I could have Mary Dawson speak more specifically
09:33:15 to that if you need to hear that.
09:33:17 But I would ask you that we would really appreciate
09:33:23 getting the required report, and having the clear and
09:33:28 very distinctly laid out information pursuant to the
09:33:31 law about why you are continuing to hold the money in
09:33:34 the CRA, if you don't have absolute commitments and
09:33:39 depth and that kind of thing to use that money for.
09:33:41 >>MARY ALVAREZ: We'll let Mr. Smith respond.
09:33:45 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
09:33:47 I think we are getting a little afield of the issue
09:33:50 before us today but I believe Mrs. Wise has informed
09:33:55 me that we do provide those reports.
09:33:57 I think there's a difference of opinion regarding the
09:33:59 adequacy, the form, additional detail.
09:34:02 Those are issues we can talk about and should talk
09:34:04 I just want to make it clear that I have been advised
09:34:07 by Ms. Wise that we do provide those reports, and I
09:34:10 wanted that response at least on the record.
09:34:11 Thank you.
09:34:12 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Mr. White.
09:34:14 >>KEVIN WHITE: Mr. Smith, I just want to make a
09:34:18 Ms. Bean, that brings up a very good point.
09:34:22 I as a sitting member of CRA, that has never been
09:34:25 brought up to Mr. Smith, whatever the adequacies are,
09:34:29 I think that needs to be worked out, as well as the
09:34:34 annual report.
09:34:36 That's not before us now but in our next CRA meeting I
09:34:38 will be happy to follow that up.
09:34:41 Ms. Bean I believe in all fairness if the county is
09:34:47 giving us dollars, they ought to know where their
09:34:49 dollars are going or have been committed to an on an
09:34:51 annual basis and I will follow that up in the form of
09:34:54 a motion in our next CRA meeting.
09:34:57 And I realize we are getting a bit off from where we
09:34:59 are today.
09:35:00 But that is a great part of the good faith procedure.
09:35:04 Actually, you all have been working off of good faith,
09:35:07 if you haven't gotten it in previous reports, and just
09:35:11 got one this year.
09:35:12 So if that is the case we'll work on that.
09:35:14 >>MARY ALVAREZ: We have a motion and second on the
09:35:17 Please indicate by saying Aye.
09:35:19 Motion passes.
09:35:21 All right.
09:35:22 We have a resolution on the floor, the memorandum of
09:35:25 Need a motion.
09:35:26 >>KEVIN WHITE: So moved.
09:35:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:35:29 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Motion and send second is.
09:35:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Rose, I am going to agree with you
09:35:37 today, we don't need to modify that to demand that
09:35:40 they include city residents.
09:35:42 I think it might be appropriate.
09:35:43 So I'll just hope that Commissioner Scott takes that
09:35:45 back and deals with it as he wishes.
09:35:48 We are not going to push it down their throat.
09:35:50 Thank you.
09:35:50 >>MARY ALVAREZ: We have a motion and a second to
09:35:53 approve -- to move the memorandum of understanding
09:35:57 between the City of Tampa, Hillsborough County, and
09:36:00 the Community Redevelopment Agency.
09:36:02 All in favor please indicate by saying Aye.
09:36:06 Any Nays?
09:36:08 Motion passes.
09:36:08 There we go.
09:36:09 Thank you very much.
09:36:12 Commissioner Scott, and all the members of the county
09:36:19 coming this morning.
09:36:22 We are here in the spirit to help and work with each
09:36:25 Thanks for coming.
09:36:33 We have item 2.
09:36:38 Who is bringing item 2 to the floor?
09:36:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mark, are you bringing item 2?
09:36:54 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Am I the chairman?
09:36:55 Do you want to do it?
09:36:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: He was walking out the door.
09:37:04 >> Good morning.
09:37:05 Item 2 is a request for extension of all of the time
09:37:11 frames in the development agreement with Capstone
09:37:16 group for Highland.
09:37:23 One was an environmental concern that ultimately was
09:37:25 satisfied but it took longer in the investigation
09:37:30 And secondly, they have an upcoming hearing for people
09:37:35 meeting either in July or August.
09:37:38 After they applied it was like two months before they
09:37:40 were actually heard.
09:37:41 It's a matter of process.
09:37:42 It's still a -- the project they have designed is
09:37:47 really beautiful.
09:37:48 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Any questions?
09:37:49 Mr. Dingfelder?
09:37:53 We need a motion -- we have a motion and a second to
09:37:58 move the resolution.
09:38:01 All in favor please indicate by saying Aye.
09:38:04 Motion passes.
09:38:06 Item 3.
09:38:08 Mr. Parkinson, are you doing that one, too?
09:38:11 Who is doing item 3?
09:38:23 We need someone -- all right.
09:38:31 >> Item 3 is very similar to item 2.
09:38:33 What they are asking you to do is extend the time on
09:38:35 an agreement that we have to give them more time to
09:38:37 develop that site.
09:38:41 >> We need a motion and a second.
09:38:43 We have a motion and a second to pass item 3 of the
09:38:47 All in favor please indicate by saying Aye.
09:38:50 Any Nays?
09:38:51 Motion passes.
09:38:53 Also, Mr. Johnson, did you want to address item 4?
09:39:10 >> Ed Johnson, East Tampa development manager.
09:39:13 This is a request that was made by the East Tampa
09:39:17 community, the development partnership, in requesting
09:39:23 that we reallocate $4, 000,000 from FY 06 budget
09:39:29 pertaining to land acquisition and move it to the
09:39:33 district 3 headquarters to complete this construction
09:39:35 And also requesting that you appropriate $350,000 from
09:39:42 the upcoming FY 07 budget which will be coming before
09:39:45 you here in the next couple of weeks.
09:39:47 These funds will be used to complete the total
09:39:51 construction budget for the police central
09:39:54 headquarters that will be coming before you as council
09:39:58 this morning, also.
09:39:59 As I said earlier in my comments, this represents some
09:40:02 additional funding from the TIF to complete the
09:40:05 construction budget which is now $9.3 million for the
09:40:09 police station, which totals out for the total
09:40:12 involvement 1,225,000.
09:40:16 >> Thank you.
09:40:16 Mr. Johnson, I would really personally like to thank
09:40:19 you for bringing this up on the East Tampa TIF funding
09:40:23 that we were talking about.
09:40:26 It just proves that East Tampa is becoming very viable
09:40:29 and the East Tampa committee is right on target with
09:40:35 whatever they have to work with.
09:40:36 And I want to thank you for coming today and giving us
09:40:38 a synopsis of what's happening in that area.
09:40:41 Because it just goes to prove that CRAs do work.
09:40:45 >> And we have community participation in that
09:40:49 community group is what really is driving this effort.
09:40:51 >>MARY ALVAREZ: and I want to commend the East Tampa
09:40:54 revitalization committee for doing their job.
09:40:57 They are wonderful.
09:40:58 They are volunteers just like every other CRA
09:41:01 volunteer boards that we have.
09:41:03 And they are going way above and beyond their duties.
09:41:06 And so I want to really thank them.
09:41:09 And I'm sure that my colleagues feel the same way.
09:41:12 Thank you.
09:41:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just wanted to echo your
09:41:17 compliments to Mr. Johnson and to the advisory
09:41:19 committee, who is thoroughly engaged in the discussion
09:41:21 of how to best use these dollars to leverage activity
09:41:26 in East Tampa.
09:41:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Move the resolution.
09:41:31 >> Second.
09:41:31 >>KEVIN WHITE: That's it.
09:41:36 >>MARY ALVAREZ: We have a motion and second.
09:41:40 Please indicate by saying Aye.
09:41:42 Any Nays?
09:41:42 Motion passes.
09:41:44 Mr. White.
09:41:45 Something to say?
09:41:49 Mr. Territo?
09:41:53 >>SAL TERRITO: I would like to request you have a
09:41:54 special CRA meeting on July 13th.
09:41:57 We will be bringing to you a development agreement of
09:42:00 the city in the heights.
09:42:01 It requires two public hearings.
09:42:03 It will be coming to you on the 22nd.
09:42:05 Then coming back to the City Council on the 13th.
09:42:08 Since you don't have a CRA meeting scheduled for that
09:42:10 day, that's the second Thursday of the month, I'm
09:42:13 requesting that you have a special meeting that
09:42:15 Thursday morning.
09:42:19 >>MARY ALVAREZ: June 22nd we don't.
09:42:22 >>> June 22nd, the two public hearings required
09:42:24 for the City Council, not for the CRA, so I'm just
09:42:27 assuming it will come back to you for the second
09:42:30 discussion on the 13th for the City Council so it
09:42:33 makes sense to have the CRA meeting the same day.
09:42:35 >>KEVIN WHITE: 8 a.m., Madam Chair?
09:42:43 It's just second reading, right?
09:42:46 >> Well, you all had a motion and discussion the first
09:42:49 time and will be coming back to City Council that same
09:42:52 >> Okay.
09:42:52 We have a motion and a second to have a special
09:42:56 meeting on July 13th at 8:50 a.m
09:43:02 All in favor indicate by saying Aye.
09:43:05 Any Nays? Motion passes.
09:43:06 Anything else to come before the CRA?
09:43:09 >>KEVIN WHITE: Move to receive and file all documents.
09:43:11 >>MARY ALVAREZ: We have a motion and second to receive
09:43:15 all documents.
09:43:16 Please indicate by saying Aye.
09:43:17 Any Nays?
09:43:19 Motion passes.
09:43:20 Mrs. Saul-Sena.
09:43:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: A year ago we did not have Mr. Chen
09:43:24 in the position of directing the CRA.
09:43:26 Now that we have an executive level staff person
09:43:29 there, we can, I'm sure, enlarge and enhance our
09:43:35 reporting both to the county and the council on the
09:43:37 activities of each of our CRAs.
09:43:39 So we really have more staff capacity than we had
09:43:47 I'm certain with Mr. Chen's guidance we will be able
09:43:49 to have enhanced -- reports on what we are doing in
09:43:55 all the areas and I think that will be of interest to
09:43:57 the county and to the public.
09:43:59 And so I look forward to that.
09:44:00 And maybe the next CRA meeting he can show us that's
09:44:04 what his schedule will be for that.
09:44:06 >> It won't be at 8:50.
09:44:08 Mr. Smith?
09:44:12 >>DAVID SMITH: I just wanted to raise a point.
09:44:17 The first vote, I believe it was moved by Mrs.
09:44:19 Saul-Sena and seconded by Ms. Miller, was to approve
09:44:22 the interlocal agreement as recommended by your staff.
09:44:27 And that vote was unanimous, 7-0.
09:44:29 The second vote you took was to approve the motion to
09:44:32 approve the memorandum of understanding.
09:44:35 I don't have the move in the second but that was to
09:44:40 approve that memorandum.
09:44:41 So we had two votes.
09:44:42 We approved the interlocal as prepared by the city
09:44:44 And we approved the memorandum of understanding, also
09:44:47 as prepared by city staff.
09:44:49 >>MARY ALVAREZ: You are correct.
09:44:51 >>DAVID SMITH: That's also what your records reflect.
09:44:53 I just want to make sure that was clear in case
09:44:55 someone was of a different opinion than that.
09:45:01 >>KEVIN WHITE: That's what you lawyers get paid for.
09:45:06 >>THE CLERK: The resolution for understanding was
09:45:08 moved by councilman white, seconded by Mrs. Saul-Sena
09:45:10 and was a unanimous vote.
09:45:15 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Thank you.
09:45:15 The City of Tampa -- or the Community Redevelopment
09:45:20 Agency had an audit from the state and I want to tell
09:45:25 you there was only four points in there that was in
09:45:29 question, and I believe that our financial advisors
09:45:32 here, Ms. Bonnie Wise and Mr. Lee Huffstutler, did
09:45:38 their very best to allay the fears of the state and it
09:45:42 was the audit of 2004 so it was a good audit.
09:45:45 Thank you.
09:45:46 Anything else to come before this board?
09:45:49 We are adjourned.
09:45:51 Thank you very much.
09:45:51 (CRA meeting adjourned)
09:45:51 The following represents an unedited version of
09:45:51 realtime captioning which should neither be relied
09:45:51 upon for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
09:45:51 The original of this transcript was produced in all
09:45:51 capital letters and any variation thereto may be a
09:45:51 result of third party edits and software compatibility
09:45:51 Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
09:45:51 proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.
09:45:53 Tampa City Council
Thursday, June 15, 2006
09:54:06 [Sounding gavel]
09:54:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Tampa City Council is called to order.
09:54:16 The chair will yield to Mr. John Dingfelder.
09:54:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Madam Chair.
09:54:25 One of our good friends Vicki pollier is going to lead
09:54:31 us in the invocation today, and she's here with her
09:54:34 husband Archie.
09:54:37 I can't tell you about all the things that Vicki does
09:54:39 in our community at large and for our neighborhood.
09:54:41 She's a tireless worker.
09:54:43 She's here with us about every Thursday.
09:54:45 And on some critical issues.
09:54:48 And her devotion to her association and to our
09:54:52 community is without parallel.
09:54:55 Vicki, thank you for leading us in the invocation.
09:54:57 Then we'll all stand for the pledge of allegiance.
09:55:05 Vicki Pollyea: Creator of heaven and earth, during
09:55:09 this time of prosperity, let us always remember the
09:55:11 unfortunate, the needy, those that can no longer
09:55:15 afford to live in this prosperous community, for those
09:55:18 of us blessed with good fortune, let us always
09:55:22 remember to share our prosperity.
09:55:24 During these times of unparalleled growth, let us not
09:55:28 forget the natural beauty, resource and wonders of
09:55:32 this area.
09:55:32 This unique, natural world is what enticed people to
09:55:37 our paradise centuries ago.
09:55:41 Let us remember to protect these natural resources so
09:55:44 that future generations can also enjoy the beauty of
09:55:46 the water that surrounds us, the creatures and the
09:55:51 exotic bountiful plants and trees that make Florida a
09:55:55 unique and beautiful place to reside.
09:55:57 During these times when many in our community receive
09:56:01 the best of health care at the finest of institutions,
09:56:06 go to sleep fed and safe and benefits in quality
09:56:09 education, let us remember those who go without health
09:56:12 care, who are hungry, who lack the safe haven to
09:56:16 sleep, and lack educational opportunities.
09:56:20 Let us strive to include them and provide for them in
09:56:23 all of our endeavors.
09:56:25 During this time of peace at our home let us never
09:56:29 forget those who live in terror, those who fear for
09:56:33 their lives because of their gender, their faith,
09:56:35 their race, for those who cope daily with civil
09:56:39 strife, war, famine, oppression, and who lack the many
09:56:44 freedoms we are so blessed to enjoy.
09:56:46 During these times, let us never forget to express our
09:56:50 sincere gratitude and to provide well for those and
09:56:54 for the families of those who protect our freedoms,
09:56:58 care for the ill, teach our children, fight battles
09:57:04 far from home, and who provide security and safety for
09:57:08 those in Tampa, and those far away.
09:57:11 During these times may our elected officials remember
09:57:15 their mandate to protect our Constitution, our people,
09:57:19 our planet, to provide for the unfortunate, and to
09:57:23 work together to protect the freedoms and blessings we
09:57:27 all cherish.
09:57:29 In this wonderful place that is our home, our city,
09:57:32 our beautiful piece of paradise, Tampa, we ask this in
09:57:37 your name.
09:57:40 (Pledge of Allegiance)
09:57:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We have people provide invocations
09:58:01 every week.
09:58:02 And what you have shared with us today is one of the
09:58:04 most beautiful and eloquent we have ever had which
09:58:06 just proves you don't have to be a designated
09:58:10 religious leader to be eloquent and raise the level of
09:58:12 civility of a meeting.
09:58:13 Thank you.
09:58:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Roll call.
09:58:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
09:58:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
09:58:20 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Here.
09:58:20 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Here.
09:58:22 >>ROSE FERLITA: Here.
09:58:24 >>KEVIN WHITE: Here.
09:58:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:58:26 >>GWEN MILLER: At this time I will yield to Rose
09:58:29 Ferlita who will do the Officer of the Month.
09:58:44 >>ROSE FERLITA: Thank you.
09:58:46 Busy intersection this morning.
09:58:47 I was thinking about a couple of things.
09:58:51 Sometimes you give me a hard time.
09:58:53 You mispronounce my last name.
09:58:55 And you're still going to continue --
09:58:58 >>GWEN MILLER: I'm not going to change after all these
09:59:00 >>ROSE FERLITA: What you allow me to do each and every
09:59:03 time as public safety chairman -- allowing me to
09:59:09 continue in this role is truly something that I
09:59:12 And being and working with Chief Jones and Chief Hogue
09:59:18 and the members of each of your organizations that up
09:59:22 hold the standards that you guys put out there, this
09:59:25 is the most wonderful part of way do, I want you to
09:59:28 know that.
09:59:35 Where is your family and your supporters?
09:59:43 Good morning again.
09:59:45 It feels like it's already noon.
09:59:47 At always before we read the commendation in your
09:59:50 behalf and in my behalf I would like to have the chief
09:59:52 come up here and explain the difficult task of why he
09:59:55 chose one officer over others because there's so many
09:59:57 qualified men and women.
09:59:59 So, chief, if you will come to that process we would
10:00:05 appreciate it.
10:00:09 >> Once again it's my pleasure to be here, and as the
10:00:12 council ladies spoke, she said, this is a difficult
10:00:15 decision, and it is.
10:00:16 There's over a thousand police officers on the Tampa
10:00:18 Police Department.
10:00:19 And to choose one each month, as one that's done
10:00:23 something exceptional above everybody else, is not an
10:00:26 easy task.
10:00:28 And when we have a smaller ceremony prior to this
10:00:33 where we recognize the Officer of the Month, and at
10:00:36 that meeting I always say that this is a very special
10:00:41 award, because we give out a ribbon, as you can see a
10:00:43 lot of officers wear a ribbon, and some officers have
10:00:47 three or four ribbons.
10:00:49 But you will find very few officers that wear either
10:00:52 the Officer of the Month selection, because there are
10:00:55 only 12 a year, there are very few officers that will
10:00:59 have the honor of wearing that ribbon, and of course
10:01:02 then we use those officers of the month to choose our
10:01:05 officer of the year.
10:01:06 So we are very proud today to announce that Mike
10:01:13 Hunter, standing to my right, has been selected for
10:01:15 Officer of the Month for May 2006.
10:01:18 And I would also like to introduce his wife Debbie who
10:01:21 kind of hung back there for awhile but I see she's
10:01:24 made it to the front now.
10:01:26 Mike did an exceptional thing for the City of Tampa
10:01:28 and for the citizens here and that's why we selected
10:01:30 As you can tell, or maybe not, Mike is a patrol
10:01:35 officer and works in our patrol division, which
10:01:37 requires a certain level of expertise and a certain
10:01:40 level of a job of what they do.
10:01:43 And it's not, you know, there's a lot of specialties.
10:01:46 He doesn't do narcotics work generally.
10:01:50 There's street level stuff that he would come across
10:01:52 as a patrol officer.
10:01:53 But in this case, he developed some information, that
10:01:58 there was a bank robber living in the City of Tampa.
10:02:03 And not just any bank robber.
10:02:05 She was wanted in two states for committing four bank
10:02:10 robberies already.
10:02:11 And the information that he has is pretty sketchy.
10:02:16 All we knew is she was somewhere here in Tampa so he
10:02:19 started working on it and he found out that somehow,
10:02:23 because I don't know all the details, Lakeland had
10:02:27 some information.
10:02:28 So he calls to Lakeland PD and finds out the only
10:02:31 thing they really have is she works as an exotic
10:02:35 dancer at one of the clubs in Tampa.
10:02:36 Unfortunately, Tampa has more than its fair share of
10:02:39 exotic dancer places.
10:02:42 So, you know, Mike starts looking around talking to
10:02:48 the management.
10:02:49 Not only that he enlists the help of his whole squad
10:02:53 stopping by these places and see if you can find out
10:02:55 where this lady works and lo and behold he did find
10:02:58 the establishment where she works.
10:02:59 Through that, he managed to find somebody who knew
10:03:02 where she lived.
10:03:03 So once he identified where she lived, he then set up
10:03:07 a stakeout at that location the next day, and actually
10:03:12 found two ladies that came up both of which kind of
10:03:16 fit the description, went up and stopped them.
10:03:18 One of them in fact was the bank robber.
10:03:20 She lied, of course, and tried to tell him that it
10:03:25 wasn't her.
10:03:26 But he had no doubt and he in fact managed to get her
10:03:31 to confess to who she really was and that she was in
10:03:34 fact wanted.
10:03:35 Well, if that isn't good enough, she is currently a
10:03:40 suspect in a bank robbery in Lakeland, and I know in
10:03:45 my heart that Mike stopped her from committing a bank
10:03:51 robbery in the City of Tampa because I know that she
10:03:53 was destined to do that eventually if she stayed here
10:03:56 long enough.
10:03:57 So it is my distinct privilege to announce Mike Hunter
10:04:02 as our Officer of the Month for this month.
10:04:04 Thank you.
10:04:05 [ Applause ]
10:04:16 >>ROSE FERLITA: Chief, I'm glad you gave that
10:04:18 explanation why our officers are hanging out at exotic
10:04:22 places because now I have an answer. Anyway, Mike,
10:04:24 it's obviously my pleasure to continue to be awarding
10:04:29 you this con em indication for the month.
10:04:31 I will read this to you on behalf of our chairman, our
10:04:34 colleagues and the people that we represent.
10:04:36 And I saw when you walked up you had like a three-page
10:04:39 speech you wanted to say so I'll be brief.
10:04:42 Debbie, thank you for being here.
10:04:44 You are certainly part of the team that we need to say
10:04:46 thank you to.
10:04:47 Because you're at home worrying about what's going on.
10:04:50 So thanks to both of you for what you do for the city.
10:04:52 Mike, on behalf of us and our chairman, our colleagues
10:04:55 and everybody in this city that you represent, it's my
10:04:58 pleasure to present this to you.
10:05:00 Tampa City Council commendation, presented to officer
10:05:02 Michael Hunter in recognition of his investigative
10:05:06 skills, he has been selected as Officer of the Month
10:05:09 for June 2006.
10:05:12 His ability to identify, track down, and arrest
10:05:15 dangerous bank robbery fugitive makes our city a safer
10:05:19 Nor the discount of the City of Tampa commends you,
10:05:21 and I as public safety chairman say thank you for
10:05:24 everything you do.
10:05:29 As usual we have some of our corporate members that
10:05:31 want to come up and say thank you in their own way.
10:05:34 Sit tight and let them present stuff to you and then
10:05:37 you can say a few words.
10:05:44 >> Mark sign we are intervision eye care and eye wear.
10:05:48 On behalf of our doctors and staff we would like to
10:05:51 thank you for protecting the citizens of Tampa by
10:05:53 helping protect your eyes with a pair of ray ban
10:06:03 >> Kim Anders with Lowry Park Zoo.
10:06:07 I would like to say thank you for keeping our
10:06:10 community safe and present you with a family pass.
10:06:19 >> Steve Stickley representing Stepp's towing.
10:06:22 On behalf of Stepps towing service and Jim and Judy
10:06:27 Stepp we would like to thank you for your hard work
10:06:29 and keeping everybody in Tampa safe.
10:06:30 We have the statue for you.
10:06:32 And we also have a gift certificate at Lee Roy Selmon
10:06:36 And unfortunately, Danny Lewis from Bill Currie Ford,
10:06:41 had to leave.
10:06:41 On behalf of Bill Currie Ford, we would like to
10:06:44 present this watch.
10:06:59 >> Congratulations to you.
10:07:00 We are all happy you are doing the job you are doing.
10:07:02 On behalf of the Hillsborough County towing
10:07:04 association, we are providing you with a $50 gift
10:07:07 certificate at Carabbas or Outback, your choice.
10:07:12 In addition to that, Steve Stickley was just here
10:07:15 giving you a certificate for Stepp's towing and this
10:07:20 letter goes along with that one.
10:07:22 Po boy's creole restaurant is presenting you with a
10:07:28 gift certificate.
10:07:29 List development and Bern's steakhouse providing with
10:07:32 you a $100 gift certificate so you can take your wife
10:07:34 and enjoy a dinner at Bern's.
10:07:36 And Bryn Allen studios is providing with you a
10:07:39 photographic package so you can have your pictures
10:07:42 taken, and create some more memory.
10:07:45 Congratulations and thank you very much.
10:07:48 >>ROSE FERLITA: Thank you very much for helping us
10:07:54 honor Mike.
10:07:56 As well, I would like to make an announcement here
10:07:59 that very nice gentleman, it's the manager of
10:08:04 Charley's steakhouse wanted to come on board but
10:08:06 didn't want to take away from the limelight by coming
10:08:10 down and presenting himself so he wanted me to present
10:08:13 this to you, a $100 gift certificate to Charley's
10:08:17 You can never say thank you enough to these guys for
10:08:20 what they do.
10:08:21 This is actually from me.
10:08:23 And now you're on.
10:08:25 Thank you so much.
10:08:27 [ Applause ]
10:08:31 >> I just want to thank the sponsors.
10:08:33 I appreciate these gifts very much.
10:08:34 Thank you.
10:08:36 Also, I want to thank the City Council and the chief
10:08:38 for presenting me with this award today.
10:08:40 It means a lot to me and I appreciate it.
10:08:43 Also, comments about my squad.
10:08:46 Unfortunately they couldn't be here today but I just
10:08:48 wanted to say thank you to them.
10:08:50 They help me a lot.
10:08:55 I couldn't do this without their help.
10:08:57 Thank you very much.
10:08:58 [ Applause ]
10:09:03 >>ROSE FERLITA: Thank you, Madam Chairman.
10:09:07 Also, the aquarium was unable to be here today but
10:09:10 they will be sending you a family package as well.
10:09:15 >>KEVIN WHITE: I want to say thank you as well being a
10:09:18 former Tampa police officer, I know what a tough job
10:09:20 it is that you do out there, and also commending the
10:09:26 chief on his community orienting because if it wasn't
10:09:28 for that, you don't develop confidential informants,
10:09:32 they will come and tell an officer these types of tips
10:09:35 and information on the street, if they don't trust
10:09:37 that particular officer and-or know that particular
10:09:41 I know that was one of the chief's goals when he got
10:09:44 to develop and implement that community oriented
10:09:46 policing strategy.
10:09:48 And I want to thank you again for the citizens of
10:09:52 Tampa, as well as this council.
10:09:55 And I'm sure your squad probably thanks you.
10:09:57 You brought a lot of limelight and recognition to them
10:10:01 as well, as I'm sure they work just as hard.
10:10:04 It's a team effort and you couldn't do it without all
10:10:07 of them but it's your day.
10:10:08 Enjoy it and congratulations.
10:10:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I wanted to tell the chief pretty
10:10:20 soon you need to get him out of those blue uniforms
10:10:22 and into detectives uniforms.
10:10:25 Looks like he's already on his way.
10:10:27 >>GWEN MILLER: thank you and congratulations.
10:10:29 [ Applause ]
10:10:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 2.
10:10:41 A proclamation, presentation.
10:10:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to thank you for taking
10:10:49 the -- I would like for to us take all the river stuff
10:10:52 together because these folks have been waiting over an
10:10:54 hour for their absolute delegated time slot of 9 a.m.
10:10:58 so thank you for your patience.
10:11:14 >>GWEN MILLER: are you doing the proclamation now?
10:11:17 A presentation?
10:11:24 >>> My name is Alan Wright, Planning Commission staff
10:11:27 and staff of the Hillsborough River and local planning
10:11:29 board and technical advisory council.
10:11:33 It's for Tew tiff that we got on your agenda today.
10:11:37 June is American rivers month and we bring to you a
10:11:39 resolution for your support, and I would like to read
10:11:42 it, if I could.
10:11:44 In recognition of the Hillsborough River historical
10:11:47 significance, on the development of the region as an
10:11:50 American river, and in recognition of the importance
10:11:52 of maintaining the Hillsborough River's viability and
10:11:56 ecological resource and diversity of plant and
10:12:00 wildlife both terrestrial and aquatic and in the
10:12:04 interest of per pet weighting the Hillsborough River
10:12:07 ability to community to the economic well-being as a
10:12:09 water supply, recreational resource, and in
10:12:14 acknowledgment of the shared importance of our rivers,
10:12:17 be it hereby resolved that June is recognized as
10:12:20 American rivers month, and that the Hillsborough River
10:12:23 be recognized for their valuable contributions to the
10:12:26 respective communities throughout history.
10:12:29 Thank you.
10:12:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It's been my honor in the last
10:12:33 three years to serve as your representative on the
10:12:36 Hillsborough River and the local planning board, which
10:12:39 is made up of three members of three local
10:12:42 governments, City of Tampa, Hillsborough County and
10:12:44 Temple Terrace, because we all value the river.
10:12:47 And I just wanted to thank these gentlemen for their
10:12:52 hard work.
10:13:03 There's many that work on keeping the Hillsborough
10:13:05 River as clean and healthy as possible and making it
10:13:09 better over the years.
10:13:10 I guess we are moving the less lugs, is that your
10:13:13 I will move this resolution with pleasure.
10:13:15 >> Motion and second.
10:13:16 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
10:13:18 Opposed, Nay.
10:13:19 Thank you.
10:13:22 Now I will yield to Ms. Mary Alvarez.
10:13:44 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Good morning.
10:13:46 I'd like the Larmon family to join me, please.
10:13:59 We all know that the Larmon family and the furniture
10:14:02 company has been in the Ybor City area for many, many,
10:14:06 many years, and -- yes, a little longer than me.
10:14:13 But we are really glad to see that you have stayed
10:14:15 with it and been dedicated, and been patient with
10:14:20 everything that's been going on in the Ybor City area,
10:14:24 and you stuck with us through thick and thin.
10:14:27 I am going to go ahead and read a little bit of what
10:14:29 they have done.
10:14:30 In 1931, Mr. R. Larmon left Kentucky and opened Larmon
10:14:38 furniture on 7th Avenue in Ybor City despite the
10:14:42 world economically.
10:14:43 They survived like they do now.
10:14:47 Mr. Curtis Larmon took over.
10:14:50 From 1955 to 1992, Curtis Larmon ran the store and
10:14:54 sold the store to his daughters and son-in-law.
10:14:58 Today, the Kalamaras employ 21 workers some of whom
10:15:06 worked there many years.
10:15:07 As they celebrate their 78th anniversary as being
10:15:10 the oldest furniture store on the block, also giving
10:15:14 back to our community by donating over $250,000 in
10:15:17 charity contributions towards worthwhile causes such
10:15:20 as the Boys and Girls Clubs, villa, and the
10:15:26 rehabilitation fund.
10:15:29 Thank you for that.
10:15:30 It is for their continued successes and fortitude of
10:15:32 75 years that I present to you on behalf of my fellow
10:15:35 City Council members, and myself, a commendation which
10:15:39 reads: The commendation presented to Larmon furniture
10:15:42 75th anniversary in recognition of your service to
10:15:45 the citizens of Tampa for 75 years, family owned and
10:15:49 operated in Ybor City since 1931, the Tampa City
10:15:52 Council hereby commends the Larmon-Kalamaras family
10:16:01 for their support and I understand they had their
10:16:04 celebration last Saturday and I was sorry I couldn't
10:16:06 make that the day.
10:16:07 But I know that Mr. White was there, and I know that
10:16:10 he told me that he was -- that was a great success and
10:16:14 I appreciate everything that you have done for Ybor
10:16:16 Thank you very much.
10:16:17 [ Applause ]
10:16:26 >>> On behalf of my family, the Larmon family and
10:16:30 Kalamaras family, we are very honored off this award.
10:16:35 There's no question, Ybor City has had its ups and
10:16:39 And I feel very blessed that with our upbringing as
10:16:43 far as our parents raising us, as far as giving us the
10:16:47 character that allows us to handle adversity, and
10:16:52 would also like to thank the good Lord for allowing to
10:16:58 us give back to the community because we feel like
10:17:00 it's very important, and if we continue giving back,
10:17:02 then the good Lord is going to continue blessing us.
10:17:05 And we feel very fortunate that we have that type of
10:17:07 heart where we can give back.
10:17:10 I would like to thank also the City Council for the
10:17:13 co-sponsorship for our celebration we had on Saturday,
10:17:17 for allowing to us block off the republic a day Cuba
10:17:22 because it made it a nice setting, and we just love
10:17:26 Ybor City, and with our family and the Cadruci family
10:17:34 on the same block, the two familiar police have been
10:17:38 in business for 140 years.
10:17:39 There's not a lot of businesses that can survive that
10:17:42 long and continue to have some success.
10:17:44 And we feel very fortunate that again that City
10:17:47 Council recognizes, and we just want to thank you for
10:17:51 everything you all have done for us.
10:17:55 [ Applause ]
10:17:56 >>KEVIN WHITE: I would like to extend my greatest
10:18:05 congratulatory 75th year anniversary.
10:18:09 One thing Mary didn't mention.
10:18:10 Being in Ybor City, you and your families have helped
10:18:14 and extended credit to people who couldn't get
10:18:18 furniture anywhere else.
10:18:21 And people would be sleeping on -- wouldn't be
10:18:24 sleeping on mattresses if it weren't for Larmon
10:18:28 And you all have provided people with the opportunity
10:18:30 to not only buy and afford furniture but also
10:18:36 establish credit and teaching them responsibility when
10:18:40 no one else would give them the opportunity.
10:18:42 And I think that needs to be highly commended and
10:18:47 congratulations and hopefully you have another 75.
10:18:50 >> We hope.
10:18:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Now we need approval of the agenda.
10:18:59 >> So moved.
10:19:03 >> Does anyone want to remove anything?
10:19:07 >> Thank you, Madam Chairman.
10:19:08 I would like to pull item 67.
10:19:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Anybody else?
10:19:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to make sure that we allow
10:19:17 the public that is here to comment on the staff
10:19:19 reports about the river, that we allow that for the
10:19:23 public comment, while the staff people are still here
10:19:25 to hear their comments.
10:19:27 >>GWEN MILLER: And I would like to remove item 87 and
10:19:29 item 100.
10:19:31 And also I need to move our committee reports.
10:19:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And the request that you move
10:19:40 agendaed public comments to the period before
10:19:41 committee reports as well.
10:19:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
10:19:46 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
10:19:48 If I might, there has been a request by the petitioner
10:19:51 for item number 87 to continue that item.
10:19:54 >>GWEN MILLER: I pulled that one already.
10:19:58 Any other item need to be pulled?
10:20:00 We need approval.
10:20:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Actually, walk-ons first.
10:20:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Is Marty Boyle here?
10:20:10 >>HEATHER LAMBOY: I'm in here place, land development.
10:20:13 With reference to walk-on, we need to walk on the case
10:20:18 Z-6-74, St. Joseph's hospital.
10:20:22 There was a problem with the legal, unfortunately, due
10:20:24 to the fact that we are short staffed in the
10:20:26 right-of-way division.
10:20:27 It took awhile to resolve the problems.
10:20:30 The application has now been certified.
10:20:32 And scheduled like to schedule for July 27th.
10:20:37 >> So moved.
10:20:38 >> Second.
10:20:38 (Motion carried).
10:20:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Sal Territo.
10:20:59 >>SAL TERRITO: I put something in your mailboxes
10:21:01 earlier in the week, resolution that I asked you to
10:21:06 Two public hearings on the development agreement which
10:21:07 will be on your agenda next week.
10:21:09 It calls for public hearing at 6:00 on the 22nd
10:21:12 and at 10 a.m. on July 13th.
10:21:14 >> So moved.
10:21:15 >> Second.
10:21:17 >> Request on the motion?
10:21:20 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did you want the City Council to take
10:21:22 up the memorandum of understanding as well that the
10:21:25 CRA addressed this morning?
10:21:27 >>SAL TERRITO: If you want to do that now.
10:21:32 It is on the agenda.
10:21:33 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The memo of understanding?
10:21:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It's on the agenda.
10:21:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Any other questions?
10:21:38 Motion and second.
10:21:38 (Motion carried)
10:21:43 Marty Shelby.
10:21:45 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I apologize to council for not
10:21:47 sending this to the doc agenda.
10:21:50 I have the resolution approving the vote for the
10:21:54 appointments to the enterprise zone, development
10:21:59 I prepared that for council based on this motion.
10:22:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you for preparing it.
10:22:04 I would like to move this resolution.
10:22:05 >> Second.
10:22:06 (Motion carried).
10:22:11 >> Need a motion to approve the agenda.
10:22:13 >> So moved.
10:22:14 >> Second.
10:22:14 (Motion carried).
10:22:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Pulled 87.
10:22:17 Who is continue going to bring that up?
10:22:19 >> So moved.
10:22:20 >> Second.
10:22:23 >> Mr. Truett Gardner, are you going to talk on 87?
10:22:27 >> Do you want a continuance, Mr. Gardner?
10:22:29 Are you requesting continuance on your item?
10:22:34 >> Truett Gardner: Yes, we are requesting continuance
10:22:36 to July 13th in the morning.
10:22:41 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Second reading, 9:30?
10:22:43 >> Second reading, correct.
10:22:47 >> Ms. Advise sy here to also support the motion but
10:22:50 an issue came up with the lender.
10:22:51 Basically they want us to add a note to the site plan
10:22:54 preserving the existing use because if we are approved
10:22:56 on second reading, the current use becomes a legal
10:22:59 nonconforming use.
10:23:01 Just as a requirement of the lender they asked that we
10:23:03 put this note on.
10:23:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Mrs. Vizzi, do you want to comment on
10:23:08 >>MARGARET VIZZI: 213 south Shirley.
10:23:11 Yes, did he contact us.
10:23:12 But I'm a little confused and I have never heard of
10:23:15 this done, so I'm hoping in the meantime we can find
10:23:21 out what the legal part of all this is.
10:23:23 With the transportation study, if the hotel would be
10:23:26 rebuilt, or stay, would we revert back to what was
10:23:33 agreed with the first condo?
10:23:34 And we hope to get all those answers by the 13th.
10:23:39 >>CHAIRMAN: So we have a motion to continue to July
10:23:41 13th at 10 a.m.
10:23:42 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
10:23:44 Opposed, Nay.
10:23:45 (Motion carried).
10:23:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Guard next I feel, will be in
10:23:51 contact with Ms. Vizzi.
10:23:53 >>> Absolutely.
10:23:54 She will be the first one called.
10:23:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 100.
10:23:59 Ms. Bonnie Wise.
10:24:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Aren't we going to go to staff
10:24:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Chief Hogue had to go to something else
10:24:09 and needed to be here for that.
10:24:13 >>> I apologize for the legal department.
10:24:14 I misunderstood.
10:24:15 The memorandum of understanding was not on the agenda.
10:24:17 It was on the agenda for the modification that you
10:24:20 approved of the CRA.
10:24:22 I would like to ask you to bring the resolution down
10:24:24 here to you but if you pass the memorandum of
10:24:27 understanding, between the city and the county and the
10:24:29 T CRA as well.
10:24:30 That was something that was brought in this morning
10:24:32 and I misunderstood the question.
10:24:34 >>THE CLERK: Madam Chair, I do have that resolution.
10:24:37 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Move it please.
10:24:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:24:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to move the
10:24:44 (Motion carried).
10:24:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Bonnie Wise.
10:24:47 >>THE CLERK: You need to open your public hearing.
10:24:52 >> So moved.
10:24:52 >> Second.
10:24:53 (Motion carried).
10:24:53 >>BONNIE WISE: Is this for the public hearing on the
10:24:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
10:24:57 >>BONNIE WISE: If I can ask that we wait for Steve
10:25:00 Hogue to return.
10:25:02 He did have to leave and he will be back in about 15
10:25:05 So if we could.
10:25:07 I appreciate you moving that item.
10:25:10 >>GWEN MILLER: When he comes, let us know.
10:25:13 We go to item number -- committee reports first?
10:25:17 We are going to do our committee reports first.
10:25:19 Then we will come back.
10:25:24 >> Public comments first?
10:25:25 >>GWEN MILLER: And comments.
10:25:27 Committee reports.
10:25:27 Everybody ready?
10:25:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I would ask that council open up the
10:25:32 floor for anyone who wishes to speak to any item on
10:25:35 the agenda for three minutes, with the exception of
10:25:37 items 4, 5 and 6, which I understand by council's
10:25:41 approval of the agenda is going to be a separate
10:25:42 public comments.
10:25:43 >>GWEN MILLER: okay.
10:25:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I had said that assuming we are
10:25:48 going to take that in the early part.
10:25:49 If we are going to take it later some of these people
10:25:52 have been waiting here since nine and if they need to
10:25:54 speak before they hear the city staff, I would like to
10:25:58 give them that opportunity.
10:25:59 The whole point is for staff to be able to hear the
10:26:01 public comment.
10:26:01 >>GWEN MILLER: It will be presented in committee
10:26:06 They are coming next.
10:26:06 Would anyone in the public like to speak on any item
10:26:09 in the agenda not set for public hearing?
10:26:11 You can come up and speak now.
10:26:14 >>> Thank you very much for the opportunity to address
10:26:16 This is an item that is related to the -- my name is
10:26:21 David butler.
10:26:22 I'm a university professor in Orlando and I conducted
10:26:25 field research as an archaeologist and historian in
10:26:29 and around the Central Park Village area since 2003
10:26:32 and will take about one minute of your time this
10:26:35 First I want to congratulate the Hillsborough County
10:26:37 city Planning Commission and Wilson Miller
10:26:39 incorporated for doing a fantastic job preparing the
10:26:42 most recent Central Park community redevelopment plan.
10:26:46 I would like to compliment those who prepared the
10:26:48 document for their inclusion of a number of historic
10:26:51 structures that symbolize the rich heritage of
10:26:54 African-Americans in the City of Tampa.
10:26:56 However, I would also like to point out that one
10:27:00 significant historic structure has been overlooked by
10:27:03 this plan, and that is Nissan elementary school,
10:27:09 recognized as a historic structure by the federal
10:27:11 government in the September -- in September of 2005.
10:27:14 When it was placed on the national register of
10:27:16 historic places.
10:27:19 This school has met the stringent criteria of the
10:27:23 federal government and has gone through a review
10:27:25 process at the local, state and federal level, in
10:27:28 order to receive this designation as a historic
10:27:32 The redevelopment plan does a wonderful job of
10:27:34 recognizing several key historic structures designed
10:27:39 or designated as local landmarks by the City of Tampa.
10:27:43 However, this school has thus far been left out of
10:27:46 this plan, not sited even as a historic structure that
10:27:51 has the potential be impacted by it.
10:27:53 The federal historic designation of Meacham elementary
10:27:57 is particularly significant to this redevelopment plan
10:28:00 due to the fact that federal dollars are allocated to
10:28:03 this project.
10:28:06 Meacham Elementary is located at 1225 India Street,
10:28:06 which is right in the middle of the Central Park
10:28:12 Village component of the redevelopment.
10:28:14 This means that this oversite has the potential to
10:28:17 apportion federal money to potentially impact federal
10:28:21 early recognized historic structure.
10:28:24 Therefore, according to the criteria set forth by the
10:28:26 federal government, regarding potential impacts, on
10:28:30 national register sites, this school should be
10:28:32 included in the Central Park community redevelopment
10:28:35 plan, and incorporated into the project as a component
10:28:39 of African-American heritage in the heart of Tampa's
10:28:43 historic African community.
10:28:45 So what I would like to do is point out the fact that
10:28:47 we have got something that's been left out.
10:28:50 I think this is a wonderful plan.
10:28:51 I think it does a great job of prioritizing the
10:28:54 history of the neighborhood.
10:28:56 However, it is incomplete.
10:28:58 The Meacham elementary should be included and N this
10:29:04 >>GWEN MILLER: I agree with you and you don't have to
10:29:06 worry, I will see that this group will work with them
10:29:08 and make sure they are not left out.
10:29:12 I made the recommendation that it be historical so it
10:29:15 won't be going anywhere. Thank you for your time.
10:29:17 Would anyone else like to speak?
10:29:18 >>MOSES KNOTT, JR.: I reside at 2902 East Ellicott
10:29:30 street three nights a week.
10:29:32 And I just thank God for his grace and his mercy.
10:29:36 And always like at the holidays, father's day come up,
10:29:44 and always like to talk about prayer.
10:29:47 You know, I don't know anything about a father, never
10:29:52 seen him before.
10:29:54 Got lost.
10:29:54 I want to say to all those people who don't have a
10:29:58 father, an extended father, I point to the father in
10:30:01 heaven, the prayer says "our father."
10:30:06 I want to say, I thank God for that.
10:30:12 But I want to speak on article 3, about Larmon
10:30:19 I come to this town when I was a young boy and a young
10:30:24 lady, me and both of us were teenagers, way back in
10:30:27 the 50s.
10:30:28 And we come in town, and we come here, we got off a
10:30:32 bus, and down there by the train station, and where we
10:30:40 stayed on the second floor there, but anyway, we got
10:30:47 apartments over in Central Park Village, but we got an
10:30:52 apartment there, and we needed some furniture.
10:30:55 And like Mr. White said, poor people back in them days
10:31:04 We would be working in the store and say we want some
10:31:08 furniture and they would say, where do you work at?
10:31:11 All you have to do is have a job, and I want to say
10:31:16 congratulations to these peoples.
10:31:18 And then mentioned this morning about giving back to
10:31:21 the community.
10:31:25 They got rental furniture all over this town where
10:31:27 they rob peoples.
10:31:29 You know, these rental people, and they don't give
10:31:33 nothing back to the community because they move into
10:31:35 the neighborhood and suck your money in.
10:31:36 So I want to thank God for these people.
10:31:38 And the CRA, you say we can speak on that now?
10:31:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
10:31:46 >>> Okay.
10:31:47 You know, I was sitting back there this morning, and I
10:31:49 never heard before in history said we should be
10:31:54 looking out for the peoples of the community.
10:32:02 I'm a community man.
10:32:03 I love our neighbors, community peoples.
10:32:07 You know, I was on a civic association meeting, you
10:32:10 know, and we had a meeting and everything.
10:32:12 But these people thought like you all think.
10:32:16 Never been talked about before.
10:32:18 The community.
10:32:19 They never been talked about before.
10:32:21 But every time, I told you about this school when they
10:32:26 run all the neighbors out of there, they had a meeting
10:32:28 and they told me, don't you all go telling the
10:32:31 neighbors we are going to run the T neighbors out and
10:32:36 get a lot of money for the property.
10:32:38 Told them people, they are coming, they are coming,
10:32:41 they are coming.
10:32:42 I said, you all go get a lawsuit and be ready for them
10:32:47 And the people didn't know anything about it.
10:32:48 They called a meeting, they come out of this smelling
10:32:53 like a rose but I want to say I'm glad all them
10:32:56 lawyers were here this morning.
10:32:59 9 thank you.
10:33:03 >>> Tell all the neighbors don't move, stay where they
10:33:05 are at.
10:33:11 >>> Maria Coulter.
10:33:13 And I have come to talk about the reclaimed water.
10:33:17 I have three articles here published by the Tampa
10:33:20 Tribune in march.
10:33:23 It says to a walk in the park.
10:33:30 And in May Malio's stakes claim to boost the city's
10:33:47 In April, reclaimed water is partly treated
10:33:52 It's okay to use for watering lawns but it's knots
10:33:56 used for drinking or taking showers.
10:34:02 Reclaimed water has a smell of its own.
10:34:05 And they too breed through smell.
10:34:15 The Sierra Club found that out.
10:34:18 We residents of Hillsborough County urge mayor Pam or
10:34:23 owe to use the Hillsborough River, not reclaimed
10:34:30 water, asking the City of Tampa to explore watering
10:34:33 sources such as -- even the spring, complex that could
10:34:41 be piped to the base of the river, or Sulphur Springs.
10:34:46 We do not want to risk the health of the Hillsborough
10:34:49 River and Tampa Bay by releasing the chemicals, and
10:34:56 reclaimed water contained directly into the rivers,
10:35:00 acre system.
10:35:02 Please help to ensure that the Hillsborough River
10:35:07 remains a living, natural resource.
10:35:14 And comments have been made about this spring, and not
10:35:20 getting too much water.
10:35:21 Well, it's better to have fresh water than to have an
10:35:24 abundant or reclaimed water of fish kills.
10:35:31 Can you imagine the river having a fish kill?
10:35:34 How can you enjoy the riverwalk with a fish kill?
10:35:38 And also, Malios, a steakhouse, can you imagine the
10:35:45 people trying to eat steak with fish kill?
10:35:48 And most of all, think about the breeding, the fishes,
10:35:55 reclaimed water has a smell of its own.
10:35:57 And it's the breeding of the fish.
10:36:00 Please don't use reclaimed water.
10:36:06 Fresh water is available right now.
10:36:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:36:15 >> John OLFINK, west Sligh Avenue.
10:36:19 I am here, and here as a member of friends of the
10:36:22 And I will be speaking on items 4, 5 and 6.
10:36:27 And unfortunately I have clients waiting in my office
10:36:30 at 11:00 and I'm an attorney and I can't wait till
10:36:35 I'd like to start giving you a historical perspective
10:36:38 of why we got here today.
10:36:41 January of 2000, the district and the city set a
10:36:48 minimum flow for the Hillsborough River because they
10:36:50 were required to do so.
10:36:52 And also, although that flow was supposed to be based
10:36:55 on a study as to how much the river needed, it wasn't.
10:37:04 It was arbitrarily set in January of 2000, was based
10:37:08 on what the city thought it could give.
10:37:13 And it was also based on where the water came from,
10:37:16 and they thought at the time that it could come from
10:37:19 Sulphur Springs only, which is not fresh water as we
10:37:24 all No. friends of river was formed and friends of the
10:37:26 river talked to the mayor, Dick Greco, City Council,
10:37:32 talked to the BBC, talked to the district, talked to
10:37:35 anybody to see if they could do a study.
10:37:38 And everybody said no.
10:37:45 So we sued.
10:37:46 Friends of the river as an organization sued the city
10:37:49 and the district.
10:37:51 And we reached a compromise.
10:37:54 The compromise that was reached was that the five-year
10:37:58 study was going to be done by an independent
10:38:06 Recommendations were going to be made at the end of
10:38:08 this study, which was supposed to have been completed
10:38:11 in August of last year.
10:38:14 It wasn't.
10:38:18 And recommendations were going to be made on how much
10:38:24 fresh water the Hillsborough River needs to improve,
10:38:32 and to maintain its function as a river.
10:38:41 And, ladies and gentlemen of council, it's really very
10:38:44 A river, all a river needs is fresh water.
10:38:49 If a river has salt water, it's not the river.
10:38:52 It's an ocean.
10:38:53 It's a bay.
10:38:55 It's whatever it is.
10:39:02 People will be talking later on as to why we need
10:39:04 fresh water, how much.
10:39:05 I believe that the independent research organization
10:39:15 has come out with a report that recommends 26 cubic
10:39:18 feet per second.
10:39:19 That's a preliminary study.
10:39:20 And you are going to be briefed on that.
10:39:25 The result of the settlement, which was negotiated
10:39:29 between friends of the river, the organization who
10:39:33 filed suit, and who still exists, and goes very strong
10:39:41 and hop recently had over 200 people at its
10:39:45 presentation of the study.
10:39:45 (Bell sounds).
10:39:47 I'm supposed to finish.
10:39:48 Do I have a minute or is this done?
10:39:50 >>GWEN MILLER: That's it.
10:39:52 >>> Thanks very much.
10:39:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else like to speak?
10:39:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I suggested that the people from
10:39:58 the public who wanted to comment on the staff report
10:40:00 wait till -- anyway, I think they should either come
10:40:04 now or afterwards depending on their schedules,
10:40:06 because the whole thing is taking longer than I
10:40:09 thought it would be to begin.
10:40:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Nobody wants to speak.
10:40:14 We go to our committee reports.
10:40:15 We go to public safety.
10:40:18 Ms. Rose Ferlita.
10:40:21 >>ROSE FERLITA: Move 16 through 31, please.
10:40:24 >> Second.
10:40:24 (Motion carried).
10:40:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Madam Chair?
10:40:28 I just -- I had my hand up.
10:40:30 I wanted to say on item 31, I wanted to point out to
10:40:33 especially to the folks of East Tampa that we just in
10:40:37 doing item 31, we just passed a $7 million contract to
10:40:41 build the East Tampa police station.
10:40:45 I think that's extremely important to the whole city
10:40:47 and especially to the residents of East Tampa.
10:40:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Parks and recreation, Mary Alvarez.
10:40:55 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I move items 32 through 40.
10:41:03 >> Second.
10:41:04 (Motion carried).
10:41:05 >> Public works, Mr. John Dingfelder.
10:41:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Staff has asked to remove item 46
10:41:10 from the agenda.
10:41:11 So I'll move item 41 through 53 excluding 46.
10:41:16 >> Second.
10:41:17 (Motion Carried).
10:41:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Finance Committee, Mr. Kevin White.
10:41:22 >>KEVIN WHITE: Move 54 through 59.
10:41:27 >> Second.
10:41:27 (Motion carried).
10:41:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Before you begin, Mrs. Saul-Sena, Mrs.
10:41:33 Alvarez pulled number 67.
10:41:35 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I would like to have Gloria Moreda
10:41:38 come talk to us about item 67, please.
10:41:43 >>GLORIA MOREDA: Land development.
10:41:46 I was asked to review the use of the property and was
10:41:50 advised that the proposed development really is going
10:41:53 to be for an office use.
10:41:56 There is no housing of children at the facility and it
10:42:02 is consistent with the zoning district, as well as the
10:42:04 comprehensive plan.
10:42:07 Further information really should be coming, I think,
10:42:09 from Mr. LeRoy Collins in terms of the use of that
10:42:19 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I would like to pull this for at least
10:42:21 another week then until I talk to Mr. Cullins himself.
10:42:28 >> I would like to move resolution 60 through 66 and
10:42:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Was there a vote on that continuance?
10:42:39 I believe there was a motion.
10:42:41 Do we have a date certain?
10:42:45 >>CHAIRMAN: We will do that next.
10:42:46 She left it out. We have a motion and second.
10:42:49 (Motion carried).
10:42:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Continue number 67 for one week.
10:42:55 >> Second.
10:42:55 (Motion carried).
10:42:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Transportation, Mr. Shawn Harrison.
10:43:00 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I move item 69 through 77.
10:43:03 >> Second.
10:43:03 (Motion carried).
10:43:05 >>SHAWN HARRISON: new items, I move items 78 through
10:43:13 >> I have a motion and second.
10:43:15 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
10:43:16 Opposed, Nay.
10:43:17 (Motion carried).
10:43:18 We need to go back to our regular agenda.
10:43:23 We had already opened 100.
10:43:25 It's still open.
10:43:38 >>BONNIE WISE: We now have all the staff members here.
10:43:40 Today we have before you a public hearing for the
10:43:41 community investment tax today it is a public hearing
10:43:48 and we have a resolution before you.
10:43:51 I wanted to give you a little bit of history, if I
10:43:58 As you know, we have had a process whereby we have had
10:44:03 various meetings throughout the public.
10:44:05 We had four meetings, one in each of the districts.
10:44:08 And through those meetings, the mayor gave a
10:44:13 PowerPoint res presentation and gave the residents an
10:44:16 opportunity to speak and talk about the various items
10:44:18 in the proposal.
10:44:19 In addition, at those meetings, there were various
10:44:22 cards that the residents could fill out.
10:44:24 We did receive approximately 13 of those cards.
10:44:28 Some people spoke at the meetings and then some turned
10:44:31 those cards in as well.
10:44:32 And many of you attended those public meetings which
10:44:35 we truly appreciate.
10:44:37 You have before you a resolution that has a plan for
10:44:40 the five years of the CIT.
10:44:43 It's for fiscal years 07 through 11.
10:44:48 And we have a plan that addresses needs in the parks
10:44:52 and recreation area, transportation, fire rescue, our
10:44:56 vehicle programs, as well as considering the
10:44:58 obligations of debt service for existing obligations.
10:45:02 So today before you, you have a combination of a
10:45:06 five-year plan and also a bonding proposal.
10:45:11 As attached to your resolution, you have a five-year
10:45:15 plan that included $17 million worth of projects.
10:45:18 And I do have a slight modification that comes from
10:45:22 various discussions I have received from you council
10:45:26 members regarding this plan.
10:45:30 Subsequent to the public meeting.
10:45:32 Oh, I'm sorry, if I could back up just a minute.
10:45:34 When the mayor presented the plan to the public, the
10:45:37 band issue initially was $12 million.
10:45:40 But pursuant to the meetings that we had with the
10:45:42 public, we received various feedback.
10:45:45 And feedback included a new recreational center in
10:45:49 Sulphur Springs, and some additional park and fields
10:45:52 for the New Tampa, north Tampa area.
10:45:54 And so that modification was made, and is included in
10:45:57 your agenda package.
10:45:59 But there were two things that occurred most recently.
10:46:02 And the things that occurred, it was mainly one for
10:46:06 freedom playground.
10:46:07 And freedom playground recently learned that the cost
10:46:10 to construct a facility has increased substantially.
10:46:13 And this information is very new.
10:46:16 And we thought it appropriate to provide for that if
10:46:21 you so choose.
10:46:23 So I do have a handout, which is the change to the
10:46:27 2007 bond program.
10:46:43 It does not change the number of the totals at all and
10:46:45 only changes this one page.
10:46:47 So I want to make that very, very clear for you.
10:46:49 It still has the neighborhood programs.
10:46:51 It still has the parks and recreation.
10:46:53 It still has the transportation programs.
10:46:56 All as outlined in your package.
10:47:02 I wanted to mention that.
10:47:03 The change is the difference is to take $250,000 from
10:47:10 the contingency and use it, 250 of that, for on the
10:47:14 freedom playground.
10:47:15 And the other thing was really more semantic, and you
10:47:18 can see it says new/tampa fields and park.
10:47:24 Once again it doesn't change the debt service and
10:47:25 doesn't change the other obligations we have in the
10:47:32 I want to also let you know that during our public
10:47:34 meetings, both chiefs and transportation spoke about
10:47:39 parks and rec, spoke about the project that we are
10:47:43 going to do in this program.
10:47:44 This is a program that we believe touches all areas of
10:47:48 our city.
10:47:49 It touches recreational centers.
10:47:51 It touches parks.
10:47:52 It touches streets.
10:47:54 With an emphasis on those neighborhood programs of
10:47:58 You can see there that we have it increasing each year
10:48:01 in transportation.
10:48:03 We have $2.4 million a year going for parks and
10:48:08 I would have a total of $12.5 million for
10:48:12 We have money for fire rescue.
10:48:14 And I really want to make sure that everybody
10:48:16 understands, this is for four new stations in our
10:48:20 It is for equipment, for fire.
10:48:22 It is for roof replacement program for a fire station,
10:48:27 a painting program, not only do we need four new
10:48:32 stations, we need to address our existing fire
10:48:39 There is a huge emphasis on fire in this program.
10:48:41 And then we are to continue with our vehicle
10:48:43 replacement program.
10:48:45 This is our police cars.
10:48:47 These are our public works vehicles.
10:48:48 And that is included here as well.
10:48:52 In addition, as you know, we already have bonds
10:48:57 outstanding so those 2001 bond issues are accommodated
10:49:01 for in this program.
10:49:02 The other thing we added is a reserve for all these
10:49:05 Now, council members, our cost of projects are
10:49:08 increasing significantly.
10:49:10 Every time we get a bid these things, we are being
10:49:13 faced with that challenge.
10:49:14 So we have added a small reserve for those projects.
10:49:20 And that will vary.
10:49:21 So, for example, to build a fire station is a little
10:49:24 bit more than we estimate.
10:49:25 We'll have that money available for that purpose.
10:49:28 And for the parks and recreation and whatnot.
10:49:31 But just so you know, the reserve is for those
10:49:33 projects as outlined in your handout.
10:49:36 I do have as both Chief Jones and Chief Hogue here, if
10:49:42 you have specific questions about these programs that
10:49:44 address police and fire.
10:49:46 Karen Palus is here regarding parks and rec.
10:49:49 Roy LaMotte is here for transportation.
10:49:52 These are the areas that we are truly emphasizing
10:50:00 >>MARY ALVAREZ: The freedom playground that we are
10:50:06 adding the 250,000, is that going to be a match?
10:50:10 >> Yes, ma'am.
10:50:11 I'm sorry.
10:50:12 The freedom playground, as you know, there have been
10:50:15 fund-raising significantly over time.
10:50:17 In fact we have other moneys, city moneys available
10:50:19 for this purpose.
10:50:20 But yes, ma'am, it is that they are to match the
10:50:25 And it will be the only playground of its nature in
10:50:27 our city, where children with disabilities and without
10:50:31 disabilities can play together.
10:50:33 Also, I just wanted to mention, in your package,
10:50:37 there's a list of playgrounds and recreational centers
10:50:40 throughout our city parks that is listed as possible
10:50:48 This is just allowing us to be more specific and
10:50:51 include it in the bond issue.
10:50:53 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Is this the only playground of this
10:50:55 type in the state?
10:50:56 Or do they have any others?
10:50:59 >>> That I don't know.
10:51:00 It would be our only in the city, however.
10:51:02 >> Only in the city but you don't know whether --
10:51:04 >>> I'm sorry, I don't know that.
10:51:06 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I think it's a great idea.
10:51:09 They certainly deserve something and I like the idea
10:51:12 it's in McFarland park, too.
10:51:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:51:15 I was able to attend one of the area meetings about
10:51:19 these proposals.
10:51:20 And I was really pleased to see the emphasis on fire
10:51:24 and safety, police, and neighborhood improvement.
10:51:28 I thought it was T projects are well distributed
10:51:31 across the community.
10:51:32 I loved the traffic calming, you know, sidewalks, and
10:51:36 the responsible approach to making repairs and
10:51:40 maintenance, particularly in the fire stations.
10:51:43 I think it's very even handed and fair and not a
10:51:52 flashy CIT budget but a very meat and potatoes meeting
10:51:56 the needs of the neighborhoods and I feel very
10:51:59 comfortable with it.
10:52:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Other questions by council members?
10:52:03 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Are we going to take public comment,
10:52:05 Madam Chair?
10:52:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It's a public hearing.
10:52:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Comments you from first.
10:52:11 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I just wanted to thank Bonnie and
10:52:13 the administration.
10:52:14 When we went out into the community and had those
10:52:17 meetings, they heard some specific things and they
10:52:19 responded and made some changes and I certainly do
10:52:21 appreciate that.
10:52:22 I think that this touches on all aspects of city life
10:52:26 in all corners of the city.
10:52:28 And as Mrs. Saul-Sena said it's not flashy.
10:52:30 Maybe not like the last one we did five years ago but
10:52:33 we are getting back to the basics here and I think we
10:52:35 all agree it's time for to us do that.
10:52:37 So I think it's great and I will certainly support it.
10:52:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone in the public like to
10:52:43 speak on item 100?
10:52:45 >> Move to close.
10:52:46 >> Second.
10:52:46 (Motion carried).
10:52:48 >>GWEN MILLER: What's the pleasure of council?
10:52:50 >> Move the resolution.
10:52:51 >> Second.
10:52:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to move the
10:52:53 (Motion carried).
10:52:54 >>THE CLERK: Madam Chair, is that with the change to
10:52:58 the --
10:53:00 >>GWEN MILLER: With the change.
10:53:02 We go to item 4, 5 and 6.
10:53:04 All at one time.
10:53:09 Council members, I ask you to hold your comments until
10:53:11 each person has given their -- is SWFWMD going to be
10:53:26 >>> Yes, ma'am.
10:53:27 >> We give them three minutes?
10:53:30 Tampa Bay water three minutes and you can get your
10:53:31 five minutes.
10:53:33 You are going to start first.
10:53:34 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Public works and public services.
10:53:39 I think it would be a good idea to take 3, 4 -- or 4,
10:53:43 5, 6 together.
10:53:44 They are addressing minimum flow levels in the
10:53:47 Hillsborough River.
10:53:48 We have representatives here today from the Southwest
10:53:49 Florida Water Management District, from Tampa Bay
10:53:52 water, from the city, I think there are PAC folks here
10:53:58 as well as some other people here who want to speak.
10:54:01 What I would like to do is introduce a couple of the
10:54:04 folks, let southwest Florida water management make
10:54:08 their presentation and then Tampa Bay water and then
10:54:10 the city if that's okay.
10:54:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Let them know they have only three
10:54:17 >> We'll start with Southwest Florida Water Management
10:54:18 District, the Executive Director is David Moore.
10:54:21 I'll let him introduce the other folks who are here
10:54:23 with him today.
10:54:27 Following him, Jerry Maxwell the Executive Director
10:54:31 was here but had to leave.
10:54:32 Paula dye will be making the presentation for Tampa
10:54:35 Bay water.
10:54:37 Dave Moore.
10:54:38 >> Thank you very much.
10:54:42 It's an honor to be before you and N discussion with
10:54:45 some of the water resources issues of the community.
10:54:47 There's a lot of water resources issues under way in
10:54:50 the Tampa Bay area.
10:54:52 I would like to categorize them in three general
10:54:55 The first being the development of sustainable water
10:54:59 I have a chance to interact with a lot of water ha
10:55:02 managers across the country.
10:55:03 And it's very frequent, I hear how are you doing in
10:55:07 Tampa Bay?
10:55:08 We are really looked at as the model of how to
10:55:10 properly manage water throughout the nation.
10:55:14 Just three years ago, four years ago, our eleven major
10:55:20 water field were pumping 160 million gallons of water
10:55:22 a day.
10:55:23 We have been able to reduce those by nearly half.
10:55:26 Back to much more sustainable levels.
10:55:29 In just a moment you are going to hear Tampa Bay water
10:55:31 talk about some of our future water supplies.
10:55:34 The second area is the development of alternative
10:55:37 We need to do everything we can to develop our
10:55:39 alternative sources.
10:55:41 We have got a lot to capture our flood waters.
10:55:43 We have the nation's largest sea water desal plant.
10:55:47 This is where the City Council and the City of Tampa
10:55:49 comes in to play.
10:55:50 You have the largest reclaimed water facility in the
10:55:53 area, the Howard Kerns facility, over 50 million
10:55:59 gallons a day of advanced wastewater but a valuable
10:56:01 asset to the community.
10:56:02 The staff did a great job over the years looking at
10:56:05 innovative ways of using that water.
10:56:08 We want to see that water fully utilized.
10:56:12 I think both the city and the water management
10:56:14 district would like to see that utilized and I think
10:56:16 your staff is clearly moving along that path.
10:56:19 The down side of reclaimed water is it's not always a
10:56:22 money maker.
10:56:23 So we bring money to the table, the water management
10:56:27 We'll fund up to 60% of the capital costs for major
10:56:30 reclaimed water projects.
10:56:32 And that will be helpful in your efforts. The last
10:56:34 category is really protecting the environment.
10:56:36 And one of the most important vehicles to protect the
10:56:39 environment is the establishment of minimum flows and
10:56:43 Minimum flows and levels are a statutorily acquired
10:56:47 mechanism to protect the environment.
10:56:49 They are being set all over the state.
10:56:51 Minimum flows are set for rivers, and springs, minimum
10:56:54 levels for aquifers and lakes.
10:56:56 They are set up to ensure natural systems, and the
10:56:59 water resources, do not suffer significant harm.
10:57:03 Salt water intrusion, wetlands, lowering of lake
10:57:08 The three that we are really focused on at this time
10:57:10 is by the end of this Sumter water management district
10:57:13 plans to step in on normal flow and the Tampa bypass
10:57:16 canal or the lower Hillsborough River and Sulphur
10:57:19 You heard a person earlier say there was a study
10:57:22 that's recently been complete.
10:57:24 It's actually still being worked on by the city in the
10:57:27 water management district that should be finished here
10:57:29 in a few weeks.
10:57:32 And can we use that study to move forward to the water
10:57:34 management district's governing board at their July
10:57:37 31st meeting to recommend flows for lowering
10:57:42 Hillsborough River, Sulphur Springs and the Tampa
10:57:44 bypass canal.
10:57:45 We believe these flows will protect the natural
10:57:48 systems and that environment.
10:57:49 And we understand that those systems will continue to
10:57:53 see -- be a major water supply not only for the City
10:57:56 of Tampa but for the region.
10:57:58 When we set these minimum flows, we look at a lot of
10:58:02 parameters to protect the natural systems.
10:58:05 But the oh two major parameters are the balance
10:58:07 between the fresh water and salt water.
10:58:09 We want to have the right -- we want to have the right
10:58:12 environment there.
10:58:12 (Bell sounds).
10:58:13 We also want enough oxygen in the river.
10:58:15 So Madam Chair, we will be setting those flows later
10:58:19 in the month.
10:58:20 I want to state in summary your staff has been
10:58:22 excellent to work with in this process.
10:58:25 We do look forward to continued partnership with you.
10:58:28 We do want to see that reclaimed water fully utilized
10:58:32 and we look forward to meeting these minimum flows
10:58:34 while still protecting the region's water supply.
10:58:37 Thank you very much.
10:58:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:58:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can I ask Mr. Moore a question?
10:58:42 Thank you so much for coming down, and all the great
10:58:44 work that the district does.
10:58:47 Periodically, I watch your television show, and the
10:58:51 preservation, and all the things that you all are
10:58:54 doing in 17 counties is just mind boggling.
10:58:57 But your whole world is water.
10:58:59 So now a lot more about it than the seven of us.
10:59:08 We are constantly faced with the balance the needs of
10:59:12 our citizens and the water.
10:59:14 We do care about Tampa Bay very much.
10:59:17 But philosophically, because you have to deal with
10:59:19 those same balances as well, you have a 17-county area
10:59:23 that I'm sure is growing faster than anywhere in the
10:59:30 What's your philosophy or feelings about balancing
10:59:33 both the critical needs?
10:59:36 >>> Council member, I think we set the bar nationwide
10:59:42 on how to do that balancing act, how to properly
10:59:44 protect the natural systems, and at the same time
10:59:48 ensure there's adequate supply for our growing needs.
10:59:57 Historically when we needed water we would just take
11:00:01 pretty much a straw in the ground and take the water
11:00:03 out of the ground.
11:00:03 We have probably the greatest use of reclaimed water
11:00:06 of anywhere in the nation.
11:00:08 We have the nation's largest sea water desal plant.
11:00:11 We are now capturing more and more flood waters.
11:00:14 When we look out 20, 30, 40 years, we think just
11:00:17 capturing a little bit of our flood waters, and
11:00:21 storing it, at off-stream reservoirs and ASR systems,
11:00:26 that will be more than enough supply to meet our
11:00:28 needs, providing that we fully utilize our reclaimed
11:00:31 water, that we continue to do conservation oriented
11:00:34 rate structures.
11:00:37 So our vision for the future looks quite good.
11:00:40 It's a change in paradigm.
11:00:42 It's not just sticking a well in the ground anymore.
11:00:44 You have to do comprehensive water resource
11:00:46 management, and part of that is the environment.
11:00:48 We have got to set these flows and levels.
11:00:51 We have to come up with creative ways of coming up
11:00:54 with sources to meet flows and levels, and to meet
11:00:57 water supply.
11:00:57 But looking into the future, we think we can get out
11:01:00 20, 30, 40 years and do that.
11:01:04 >> And the only other question I have for you is prior
11:01:07 speaker said that reclaimed water smells and causes
11:01:11 fish kills and color and that sort of thing.
11:01:13 Well, I don't believe that the type of thing that we
11:01:16 would allow to be put in the river and I don't think
11:01:18 that's the type of thing would you allow to us put in
11:01:20 the river.
11:01:21 Do you want to respond to that?
11:01:23 >> Absolutely not, we are not going to do anything
11:01:25 that doesn't make sense environmentally.
11:01:27 And protects the ecology.
11:01:29 But I will tell you, this nation, we are learning the
11:01:33 value of recycling our reclaimed water.
11:01:36 It can be treated to a very high level.
11:01:39 And it can be very beneficially used.
11:01:42 Don't know if it's necessarily needed here.
11:01:45 For the minimum flow.
11:01:47 May not be needed for the minimum flow.
11:01:49 If it is needed for the minimum flow, there may be
11:01:52 different ways of treating that water.
11:01:54 It gives people additional comfort but may not be
11:01:57 needed. But what is needed at the end of the day is
11:02:00 the full beneficial use of that reclaimed water
11:02:03 throughout the community.
11:02:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I wanted to thank you very much
11:02:07 publicly for taking away your request to lower the
11:02:13 level of the oxygen.
11:02:15 I don't think that would have been good for fish.
11:02:17 I think that was a wise move on your part.
11:02:19 I want to publicly thank you for sending that request.
11:02:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:02:24 Next speaker.
11:02:29 >>> Paula dye with Tampa Bay water.
11:02:31 And I do have a few graphics for the Elmo.
11:02:33 It's a pleasure to be here in front of you today,
11:02:41 Madam Chair and members of the council.
11:02:42 I'm here to focus on our region's future water needs
11:02:46 and the plan that we are working on to meet those
11:02:49 The blue line, which is through here, is the
11:02:52 requirement that we have for the region for an
11:02:55 additional 45 million gallons a day of water supply
11:02:59 through the year 2025.
11:03:01 And I think it's important to note that about 30% of
11:03:04 that demand is from the City of Tampa's needs for the
11:03:08 These projection does take into consideration all of
11:03:11 our member government's conservation plans including
11:03:15 their reclaimed water management plan over the next
11:03:18 five years, and into the future as well.
11:03:21 What's important on this graphic to look at, I think,
11:03:23 is the line that you see here, which is the 2012
11:03:29 That's our next increment of supply that's needed to
11:03:32 meet your needs and the needs of the renal.
11:03:34 And we need about six years to completely design,
11:03:39 permit, bid, build and construct all of the things
11:03:41 that are required to bring on that next water supply
11:03:46 And so our Board of Directors has been working very
11:03:48 hard for you and the rest of the members to plan what
11:03:51 might be that next increment of water supply for the
11:03:57 As you can see by the next graphic, which I will put
11:04:04 up for you, we began to look at an alternative idea to
11:04:10 the downstream augmentation project that the project
11:04:13 feature that you are familiar with, because of the
11:04:15 complexity of permitting the downstream augmentation
11:04:19 project, on the first phase, and concerns that we
11:04:22 heard expressed by environmental groups and by the
11:04:26 program and the agency of bay management organization,
11:04:29 the board has decided to look at an alternative to
11:04:32 that supply project that was suggested by the
11:04:34 agencies, and the estuary program.
11:04:38 And that is called downstream enhancement.
11:04:40 It was built upon our existing enhanced surface water
11:04:43 supply which you see here in the graphic.
11:04:46 Up in the left hand corner is our pumping station from
11:04:49 the Tampa bypass canal to the right, is our Alafia
11:04:53 river intake, to the bottom right is the regional
11:04:55 reservoir which Mr. Moore mentioned, I believe, and to
11:04:58 the lower left is our surface water treatment plant,
11:05:02 and the concept of downstream enhancement would be to
11:05:05 utilize those resources further by modifying the water
11:05:09 use permits for the Hillsborough River and the Tampa
11:05:12 bypass canal, to skim an additional higher flow from
11:05:17 those rivers, and what is a nice thing about this
11:05:19 concept is, it may have potential along with
11:05:21 downstream augmentation, and later phase of
11:05:25 development, to provide up to 45 million gallons a day
11:05:30 of supplies to the region which would take us out to
11:05:32 that 2025 need.
11:05:35 There are several things that would be required to
11:05:38 also assist with that.
11:05:40 And the next graphic that you have in your packet
11:05:45 talks about those things.
11:05:46 And those include such things as demand management,
11:05:49 and conservation, that all of the members including
11:05:53 the City of Tampa is implementing and should be
11:05:56 complimented for implementing so well.
11:05:58 It also includes two more assumptions.
11:06:00 And that is, they drop mitigation plan will be
11:06:04 implemented, and also that delivery connections
11:06:08 through all of our member governments will continue.
11:06:11 We are implementing memorandums of understanding with
11:06:13 several of those, including the city of New Port
11:06:17 Richey, Hillsborough and Pasco County, and will
11:06:20 continue to be integrating everyone into our regional
11:06:23 system as a result of that.
11:06:24 So we do have plans for the future.
11:06:26 And I would like to just close by thanking the City of
11:06:28 Tampa for being such a great partner with Tampa Bay
11:06:31 water, and making sure that we meet those future water
11:06:34 supply needs.
11:06:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:06:46 >>> I'll try to move through this presentation very
11:06:58 Minimum flows and levels.
11:07:00 Just to orient you, this is the Hillsborough River,
11:07:02 and this is our reservoir in the river.
11:07:04 On the left side in the center is the city's water
11:07:07 treatment plant.
11:07:08 And just a little bit above that, again on the left
11:07:12 side, you can see the gray line.
11:07:13 That is the dam.
11:07:17 The city's responsibilities include using all three of
11:07:20 the water resources, the river, the Sulphur Springs
11:07:24 and the Tampa Bay Tampa bypass canal as its water
11:07:28 It's an integrated system.
11:07:29 Additionally, we have permits from the water
11:07:31 management district, that we have an interlocal
11:07:33 agreement with Tampa Bay water which limits us to 82
11:07:35 million gallons a day withdrawal from the Hillsborough
11:07:40 Additionally, we have been good stewards to the river.
11:07:44 We have maintained this water source four 100 years or
11:07:47 So again the city has maintained the river as its
11:07:51 source, and been stewards to it for some time.
11:07:56 A little history. The Hillsborough River dam was
11:07:59 constructed in the 1890s.
11:08:00 Sulphur Springs, pool and dam were construct board of
11:08:03 director that same time and then the Tampa bypass
11:08:05 canal was constructed in the 1960s.
11:08:10 Looking at the legal requirements, it is the water
11:08:13 management district, the governing board, that must
11:08:17 set a minimum flow or level.
11:08:18 And below, on the second paragraph, there are
11:08:23 significant pieces but the minimum flow for a given
11:08:25 water shall be a limit at which further withdrawals
11:08:28 could be significantly harmful to the water resources,
11:08:32 ecology of the area.
11:08:33 That's the definition of what the minimum flow or
11:08:35 level should be set at.
11:08:38 Additionally, the governing board shall consider
11:08:40 changes in structural alterations in the water body
11:08:42 when they make the deliberations.
11:08:47 We certainly consider the dam on the Hillsborough
11:08:49 River is one of those alterations.
11:08:56 It is within the statutes that the department, the
11:08:59 governing board may determine that they don't have to
11:09:00 set a minimum flow.
11:09:02 That is an option.
11:09:06 Additionally, the minimum flows can be set and phased
11:09:10 in over time which allows for the development of water
11:09:12 sources that are needed either to meet the minimum
11:09:16 flows that offset other water needs.
11:09:19 Additionally, the minimum flow could be set
11:09:23 It could be different during one time of the year
11:09:25 versus another time of the year.
11:09:31 A little bit of a history earlier but I'll give it to
11:09:34 you again.
11:09:35 In the year 2000 time frame the southwest Florida
11:09:39 water management proposed 10 CFS on the river.
11:09:42 City of Tampa actually opposed it at that time, and
11:09:44 believed that because it was a highly altered
11:09:49 situation, or river, that there was no need to set a
11:09:54 minimum flow.
11:09:56 The friends of the river did sue at that time, and a
11:10:00 settlement agreement was reached which includes
11:10:02 setting a 10 cubic feet per second flow until this
11:10:06 study could be accomplished.
11:10:08 And that's what we have been providing in the river
11:10:10 from Sulphur Springs since that time.
11:10:17 Again it is a system that we have to look at here, not
11:10:20 just the minimum flow on the Hillsborough River but
11:10:22 also Sulphur Springs and the bypass canal, and how
11:10:25 they all work together is important.
11:10:31 The City of Tampa and water management district must
11:10:33 jointly do this and develop it.
11:10:36 We must study the biological communities below the dam
11:10:40 and it was the intent, or the direction, that we
11:10:42 maintain the biological communities below the dam.
11:10:47 Taking into consideration historic hydrologic
11:10:49 functions and existing changes in structural
11:10:51 alterations again such as the dam, reevaluate current,
11:10:56 determine if that was adequate, provide
11:10:58 recommendations to enhance biology -- can't read the
11:11:02 last one because it's covered over.
11:11:05 And the results were binding on both parties.
11:11:14 Some of these issues from that study, the study
11:11:16 results are driven of course by their premise.
11:11:20 The premise in this case is that we need to establish
11:11:23 an environment that has zero to five parts per
11:11:26 thousand salinity.
11:11:30 That is not in the water but because that is
11:11:34 diminishing it was taken as the premise of the study.
11:11:38 The law doesn't say how much of the zero to five
11:11:41 environment needs to be reestablished.
11:11:42 But neither does the study.
11:11:45 But that was the premise of it.
11:11:49 We looked at various levels of increased flow to
11:11:52 determine at what point some of that type of
11:11:55 environment was established.
11:11:56 And as a result of it, we also determined that while
11:11:59 it was good at some point to increase the flow
11:12:01 upstream, but there was a negative impact downstream
11:12:05 as a result of that.
11:12:08 It's a little complicated but really a pretty slide.
11:12:14 If you start at the dam on the left side and move
11:12:16 towards Platt Street on the right side, consider that
11:12:19 you are going down the river.
11:12:20 And the top item says baseline.
11:12:23 That means basically with no water going over the dam.
11:12:27 (Bell sounds).
11:12:27 You see the various colors show you the levels of
11:12:31 The bottom graph shows when you have ten cubic feet
11:12:36 per second of fresh water going over the dam you look
11:12:38 at that five parts per thousand line and you see that
11:12:41 you have it begun going down past the park and to
11:12:48 Hannah's world.
11:12:49 In this case it's 20 CFS fresh water and you see again
11:12:53 the five parts per thousand environment goes down to
11:12:56 the Sulphur Springs area on the top, and the bottom
11:12:59 row we had 30 CFS.
11:13:01 You see that it goes even further.
11:13:03 As a result of that, the city has been looking at the
11:13:06 Hannah's area thinking that would be a logical area to
11:13:11 try to get to GTE develop this five parts per thousand
11:13:17 type of environment.
11:13:18 This bar chart shows you the amount of increase or
11:13:22 benefit that you achieve as you increase the flow.
11:13:27 So you see at the 14 to 16 CFS level you start maxing
11:13:32 out the amount of increased benefit you receive as you
11:13:35 increase the flow.
11:13:40 This is an overview that shows the environment on the
11:13:45 The blue line, blue greenish line, is where you have
11:13:49 natural shoreline.
11:13:52 The orange, or yellowish, the yellowish is where you
11:13:56 have riprap and the red is where you have the sea
11:14:02 Our thinking that Hanna's Whirl which is the bottom of
11:14:07 that U, is Hanna's Whirl. From the dam to Hanna's
11:14:10 Whirl we think is a good environment to try to develop
11:14:13 and maintain the zero to five parts per thousand.
11:14:18 Once you go beyond Hanna's Whirl you start getting
11:14:21 into more of the sea wall area and again the
11:14:23 environment is not quite as conducive to maintaining
11:14:25 that zero to five parts per thousand.
11:14:29 This is kind of a look at our Hillsborough River dam.
11:14:32 One of the things we certainly have to consider since
11:14:34 we have so many customers in the City of Tampa and in
11:14:39 Hillsborough County is the impact all of this will
11:14:42 have on our water supply system.
11:14:44 What you see here is the 22.5 is the crest level for
11:14:51 our dam.
11:14:52 When the river is above 22.5 water naturally flows
11:14:56 over the dam.
11:14:57 At 22.5 feet it is full and it stops.
11:14:59 From 22.5 down to 18, as the water goes down, as the
11:15:03 level goes down, we start kicking in things like water
11:15:06 from the bypass canal, water from our ASO wells.
11:15:11 When we hit the 18-foot level we start pumping in
11:15:13 water from Sulphur Springs, again trying to maintain
11:15:16 the levels of the reservoir so we can withdraw our 82
11:15:18 million gallons a day.
11:15:20 When we exceed that wave to start buying water from
11:15:23 Tampa Bay water.
11:15:26 That's a good bit of what we have been doing over the
11:15:28 last three months.
11:15:29 This chart shows, if you look at the blue line, the
11:15:32 blue line is what we actually experienced for the
11:15:35 month of March, April and May as far as levels in the
11:15:41 The red line shows what the reservoir would have done
11:15:45 if we had allowed ten CFS out of our reservoir.
11:15:49 If we had been allowed 10 CFS out of the reservoir we
11:15:53 would have been below that critical level in May.
11:15:56 If we had allowed 20 CFS out of the reservoir, we
11:16:00 would have been at the current level back in April.
11:16:01 So again, just to give you an idea of what it would
11:16:05 take out of the reservoir.
11:16:09 In summary, again, remember it's okay not to set and I
11:16:16 think that's what you will find is happening on the
11:16:18 bypass canal.
11:16:18 City of Tampa and the water management district
11:16:20 previously agreed on that 10 CFS.
11:16:25 Water, can be obtained from Sulphur Springs.
11:16:28 That's what we have been doing.
11:16:30 And for the last number of years.
11:16:32 And it has been beneficial to the river.
11:16:35 Water for the MFL should not come from the reservoir
11:16:41 in order to help protect the health, safety and
11:16:44 welfare of the citizens and our customers.
11:16:48 You must consider all of the sources, the Sulphur
11:16:52 Springs, the bypass canal and the lower Hillsborough
11:16:53 River when you are looking at setting these MFLs.
11:16:56 And the Tampa Bay water as far as we are concerned,
11:16:58 because they are such a major user of the river,
11:17:02 should help and should be involved in the resolution
11:17:04 of this MFL situation.
11:17:08 So short and sweet as quickly as I can do that.
11:17:11 There's the presentation.
11:17:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Daignault, I appreciate your
11:17:16 I have a number of questions on it.
11:17:17 But the key distinction that I see here is that we
11:17:21 just celebrated the fact that this is natural rivers
11:17:25 In the Hillsborough River in addition to being a main
11:17:27 source of drinking water for the City of Tampa, the
11:17:30 river is supposed to have fresh water that flows down
11:17:32 the river and I feel in your calculus here, you didn't
11:17:36 really address that function of the river.
11:17:39 I feel like you're looking at it so closely as a
11:17:42 source of the city's inexpensive drinking water that I
11:17:45 don't see in your summary the fact that it's our
11:17:51 primary responsibility to protect the Hillsborough
11:17:53 River as a river where clean water --
11:18:01 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: I understand.
11:18:02 Please keep in mind the dam being where it is also
11:18:04 provides the benefit of stopping salt water from going
11:18:07 any further.
11:18:09 The city is where we are because the Hillsborough
11:18:10 River is there, because we have a water source.
11:18:14 And maintaining that water source is important to all
11:18:17 of the folks who are here.
11:18:19 So while we are saying that is a river, and it should
11:18:27 be fresh water, the dam is there.
11:18:30 It is a structure.
11:18:32 It has been there for a hundred years.
11:18:34 And as a result of it being there, again, the water
11:18:39 above it is fresh.
11:18:40 So, I mean, we are focusing on the lower Hillsborough
11:18:44 River below the dam.
11:18:46 But let's not forget the Hillsborough River above the
11:18:48 dam as well.
11:18:53 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Thank you, Mr. Daignault.
11:18:54 This was very enlightening.
11:18:56 I know I took that trip with you to the dam and you
11:18:58 tried to tell me all about it but it was a lot to
11:19:02 absorb in about a half hour or 45 minutes that we were
11:19:05 out there.
11:19:06 But you were talking about the salinity.
11:19:12 My question is, has there ever been a salinity
11:19:19 Has there ever been any salt water intrusion into our
11:19:23 >>> Above the dam?
11:19:24 >> No, talking about the lower dam because it comes in
11:19:27 from the Tampa Bay area.
11:19:27 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Below the dam is very tidal.
11:19:31 Yes, there is salt water that comes up from the bay.
11:19:34 Because it is open to the bay.
11:19:35 And it's a natural occurrence.
11:19:37 It happens in all rivers.
11:19:39 You have a salt water wedge that goes up and down the
11:19:42 river depending on the time of year and the flow in
11:19:44 the river.
11:19:44 >> So then from that point on, from the Tampa Bay to,
11:19:50 say, below the river, that could be salt Watt?
11:19:54 There should be some salt water in there?
11:19:57 >>> There is.
11:19:58 Again it's a natural occurrence, yes.
11:19:59 >> But is it a real salty, salty type water like an
11:20:03 ocean, or is it -- what's the salinity?
11:20:06 Can you tell?
11:20:07 Or do you know?
11:20:09 >>> There's probably a lot of folks behind me that can
11:20:13 tell you exactly.
11:20:14 It's certainly higher than the 5 parts per thousand.
11:20:17 It might be 20 parts per thousand or above that.
11:20:20 And it is seasonal.
11:20:21 During the rainy season, when the water does go over
11:20:24 the dam, the water -- the river below the dam is
11:20:30 predominantly fresh water.
11:20:32 And that goes way down.
11:20:34 Closer to the bay during the dry season of course it
11:20:38 works its way up so it is dependent on the amount of
11:20:41 rain and other flow in the river.
11:20:42 >> What about fish kills?
11:20:44 Have we had any fish kills in the river in the last
11:20:46 five to ten years, that anybody knows?
11:20:50 >>> As a result of?
11:20:54 We have had some as a result of low dissolved oxygen.
11:20:58 One of the things that I mentioned up there is that in
11:21:00 looking at this, we have to be careful, because while
11:21:05 you want to increase the flow up at the -- just below
11:21:08 the dam, and that can be beneficial, there is a
11:21:13 reverse impact later on or further down the stream
11:21:15 than the river that could reduce the dissolved oxygen
11:21:18 and be detrimental.
11:21:19 So again we have to stay within a range there.
11:21:23 >> So in the last five to ten years there has been
11:21:26 some fish kills.
11:21:27 But not to the point where it's smelly.
11:21:30 I know usually it's sometimes smelly on the Bayshore
11:21:34 but not in the river.
11:21:35 I haven't heard anybody complain about the smelly
11:21:39 situation on the river.
11:21:41 Well, I think we are doing the best we can.
11:21:45 With what we have.
11:21:46 Of course it's always a problem where we come up with
11:21:50 these condos, and more developments coming in, and
11:21:54 there's always a question of do we have enough water?
11:21:58 And that's a question that we and you all, as our
11:22:03 administration in southwest management and Tampa Bay
11:22:06 water, have to tell us, yes, we have enough water to
11:22:10 take care of not only the city but the county people
11:22:13 as they are coming in.
11:22:16 >>> If we can look at the Elmo for a moment.
11:22:18 This is our demand chart.
11:22:20 And what you can see there is in 2005, we maxed out
11:22:25 the amount of water that we are capable of drawing
11:22:28 from the river, the 82 million gallons.
11:22:30 So we have Maxed out our permit. This is based on
11:22:34 growth and demand.
11:22:35 So as you go above that red line, we will be buying
11:22:37 more and more Tampa Bay water.
11:22:39 And that's just a result of growth.
11:22:42 >> So then at some point we have to stop growth.
11:22:48 I mean, if we are going to keep buying water from
11:22:51 Tampa Bay water, and they are not cheap, you know,
11:22:55 where do we go?
11:22:59 >> The result will be that we'll have to increase our
11:23:02 We'll have to include the cost of buying that water in
11:23:04 our rates.
11:23:07 >> Okay.
11:23:07 Thank you.
11:23:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, I think there are some other
11:23:13 alternatives other than just increasing the rates but
11:23:16 we can talk about that another day.
11:23:19 Ms. Saul-Sena and I share one thing very deeply in
11:23:23 common, and we both care about the environment.
11:23:26 And that's not a new thing for either of us.
11:23:30 And I grew up on the upper hulls bore river and care
11:23:35 about the environment greatly as does she.
11:23:37 But she said a moment ago that our primary
11:23:39 responsibility is to mach sure there's fresh water
11:23:41 below the dam.
11:23:42 And I would respectfully disagree.
11:23:43 I think our primary responsibility is to provide
11:23:46 potable water to our residents.
11:23:47 I think if we ask 100 people on the street and said
11:23:50 city officials, what is the most -- what's one of the
11:23:53 most important things we have to do?
11:23:54 We have to provide water.
11:23:56 To our residents.
11:23:57 And I agree.
11:23:59 We need to do a better job of conservation.
11:24:01 We need to do a better job of reacclamation.
11:24:04 We need to do a better job on our star program, et.
11:24:07 But at the end of the day, the first thing people do
11:24:11 in the morning is turn on their faucet and they expect
11:24:14 And that's our primary responsibility and we can't
11:24:16 lose sight of that.
11:24:17 With that said, as Mr. Moore spoke of a minute ago our
11:24:20 next responsibility is to make sure we have a good,
11:24:22 healthy, clean environment and we will do that and
11:24:24 we'll balance both of those needs and I have complete
11:24:27 faith in the city that we can do both.
11:24:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Other questions by council members?
11:24:31 Is there anyone in the public that would like to speak
11:24:32 on this item, 4, 5, 6?
11:24:34 You may come up and speak now.
11:24:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: While someone is coming up I just
11:24:39 want to say that Mr. Dingfelder identified the
11:24:42 decision point, which is the balance.
11:24:43 And the balance that I see is protecting the
11:24:47 environment, having enough water, and paying for the
11:24:50 water in a way that allows us to protect the
11:24:53 And it's almost a trade-off in value.
11:24:56 What are you willing to protect in terms of the cost
11:24:58 of water?
11:24:59 And truthfully, we have had such cheap water for so
11:25:01 long that we haven't valued it adequately.
11:25:04 And I think that's going to be part of the calculus as
11:25:06 we move forward.
11:25:07 And seek to protect the environment and provide enough
11:25:11 water resources in the future.
11:25:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Knott?
11:25:17 >>MOSES KNOTT, JR.: I reside at 2902 East Ellicott
11:25:24 I'm here this morning you know, making me sick sitting
11:25:31 what there can talking about who the water belongs to.
11:25:33 You know I read the Bible and I live by the Bible.
11:25:36 And that means all of our help comes from God.
11:25:40 But when I was a little boy, you know, back in
11:25:44 Mississippi, we learned respect from God.
11:25:48 Everything we needed we had to go to God.
11:25:50 But saying old sin God gives water for you when you
11:25:57 are thirsty and bread for you when you are hungry.
11:25:59 And they live like that.
11:26:02 We pump into the ground to get water, now, and
11:26:05 neighbors come from miles away with horses and barrels
11:26:08 to get water.
11:26:09 Neighbors share with one another.
11:26:10 But I tell you all about the storms and I tell you all
11:26:17 about droughts.
11:26:18 All of this stuff is controlled by sin.
11:26:24 I'm amazed that God -- God got any water for you all.
11:26:29 If you read the Bible in the Old Testament, you know,
11:26:34 got water from them.
11:26:37 You know, and in the Bible, I love the Bible.
11:26:51 All the mens that went into town, the Jews went into
11:26:54 town to get some water from those peoples and they
11:26:58 wouldn't have nothing to do with those peoples.
11:27:02 But Jesus went another wrought and went to the well to
11:27:08 get some water.
11:27:09 But then come up then about Jesus told her that he
11:27:13 wants some water.
11:27:14 First thing she told Jesus, you ain't got nothing to
11:27:18 draw with.
11:27:20 The well is about 3 or 400 feet.
11:27:23 Then Jesus went to tell her about the water.
11:27:25 But what I want to say about, she told Jesus that
11:27:31 those wells belong to -- and then Jesus said his
11:27:40 And she had to go back and tell all the other peoples.
11:27:45 But I want to say, though, I told you over and over
11:27:49 again, if they cut the sin out, the river will fill
11:27:52 up, everybody will have water.
11:27:55 But it's the sin that cause all that stuff to happen.
11:27:59 Same thing about these stones.
11:28:01 There's some sin in this town.
11:28:05 They call it sin city.
11:28:06 Thank you very much.
11:28:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:28:12 >> Dr. Rich Brown, live on Park Circle.
11:28:14 Friends of the River, also mayor of the Environmental
11:28:15 Round Table.
11:28:21 Some of the data points.
11:28:22 Yes, there have been fish kills, certain times of the
11:28:25 year, the river does smell pretty horribly, during the
11:28:29 summer is the worst time and there are kids especially
11:28:31 from Sulphur Springs who swim in the river so there
11:28:34 are health issues that affect humans, not just fish.
11:28:39 One item.
11:28:40 Second item is, hard to argue with some of the city
11:28:47 people because I know the folks they work with, they
11:28:49 are some good folks.
11:28:50 But if they have been stewards of the river for the
11:28:52 last 30 years I am glad they are not running my 401-K.
11:28:57 There are days, 300 days some years in the past when
11:29:01 no water has gone over.
11:29:03 That turns the river into a one-way ditch.
11:29:05 It's almost like -- and pardon their analogy -- it's
11:29:08 almost like if you waited until the city put fresh
11:29:12 water over the dam, to flush the toilets in City Hall,
11:29:16 you would have an ugly mess and people would be
11:29:23 The analogy works.
11:29:24 If the river doesn't get what it needs, it turns ugly.
11:29:30 If the dam wasn't there, we may have some periods of
11:29:33 salinity moving up the dam.
11:29:35 But I'll tell you, blowing up the dam would solve all
11:29:40 the problems because the amount of fresh water come
11:29:42 down, mostly 98% of the time keep the salinity down
11:29:46 river, salinity up river would not be a problem.
11:29:50 Since I have moved in the area about 17 years ago,
11:29:53 when I first moved in, could you keep your boat behind
11:29:57 your house.
11:29:58 I didn't have a boat but I scraped other peoples.
11:30:02 And there was many times when muscles, and salt water
11:30:07 grass would grow.
11:30:07 Now you can get six inches of growth on the bottom of
11:30:11 your boat even up by Hanna's Whirl in a month.
11:30:14 There is much more salt water than there used to be.
11:30:16 The fresh water is good for the nursery.
11:30:19 Part of the reason that we are asking for a certain
11:30:22 plume of fresh water is that it is good for the health
11:30:25 of the river.
11:30:37 It's possible not to set a minimum flow.
11:30:39 Yes, that's what the rule says.
11:30:41 But I tell you, as I understand it, the purpose of
11:30:44 that rule was to take a stream through a strawberry
11:30:51 field and make it no longer a stream but an irrigation
11:30:54 I do not think the purpose of that phrase being
11:30:57 written in has anything to do with taking an actual
11:31:00 real live river through the middle of a town and
11:31:03 making that not subject to MFL.
11:31:07 I don't think that meets the requirements.
11:31:08 The 10 CFS you keep hearing, that was not science
11:31:15 As we read the draft study from SWFWMD they are
11:31:18 looking at 26 cubic feet per second.
11:31:20 I'm not sure whether 14 or 16 that we saw on the
11:31:24 slides where the city came from.
11:31:26 We'll have to read the next draft and make a science
11:31:29 based rebuttal to that.
11:31:33 We would be delighted to be part of the conservation
11:31:36 process. The City of Tampa does a spectacular job of
11:31:39 providing information to the citizens and
11:31:48 >> Thank you.
11:31:50 >> Hello.
11:31:52 My name is Janet family, 7500 Ola Avenue in Tampa.
11:32:00 I want to make sure that everyone knows while the
11:32:02 Hillsborough River is an altered body of water it is
11:32:04 not dead.
11:32:05 It is not a canal.
11:32:07 It is Tampa greatest natural resource, replete with
11:32:12 life and plant life even now, even with the lack of
11:32:15 care that it's been given.
11:32:18 There's Manatees, dolphins, otters, tarpons, shore
11:32:24 birds, all these things I have seen in my backyard.
11:32:27 I saw a dolphin the other day.
11:32:28 If you look down into the river you see schools of
11:32:30 fish, little tiny minnows that are going to grow into
11:32:34 big fish.
11:32:37 That is because the river is a nursery for the sport
11:32:40 and game fish that everybody comes down here to fish
11:32:43 It's a nursery.
11:32:45 The river is alive.
11:32:46 And it needs our help to stay that way.
11:32:49 To grow and to thrive.
11:32:52 One of the key things the water needs is -- the river
11:32:56 needs is fresh water.
11:32:59 And fresh water is not recycled water.
11:33:01 Water that comes from the toilet of Tampa.
11:33:04 Reclaimed water is not recommended for drinking or
11:33:08 bathing or even for washing your car.
11:33:12 It contains chemicals, Nay trait, pharmaceutical
11:33:16 residue, does not have dissolved oxygen that is
11:33:19 required for the health of the river.
11:33:20 And reclaimed water is not cheap.
11:33:25 It's three times the cost of natural water.
11:33:27 It is not a bargain.
11:33:28 It is not what the people of Tampa want for their
11:33:32 A river upon which these people boat, fish, recreate,
11:33:37 and, yes, even swim.
11:33:39 I urge the City Council, as representatives of the
11:33:43 citizens of Tampa, to encourage the installation of
11:33:46 alternative fresh water sources for the Hillsborough
11:33:49 River, sources such as the blue sink, more pollution
11:33:54 in the form of reclaimed water is not the solution for
11:33:57 the Hillsborough River.
11:34:00 The development past may be forgiven as ignorance but
11:34:03 is no longer forgivable or conscionable to compound
11:34:06 the damage by engaging in poor environmental traces
11:34:09 for the Hillsborough River now.
11:34:11 I urge the City Council and the City of Tampa to make
11:34:14 good choices for our river, and fresh water is a good
11:34:18 The right choice.
11:34:19 It is the only choice for the future of the lower
11:34:22 Hillsborough River.
11:34:23 Thank you.
11:34:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:34:33 >>> Mike McClary, from a natural environmental group,
11:34:38 Clean Water Action.
11:34:38 We have a local chapter here in Tampa.
11:34:44 Here in the city limits we have about 6800 members.
11:34:47 And we employ full-time staff.
11:34:52 We have been knocking on doors throughout the city
11:34:58 Talking about this issue regarding minimum flows,
11:35:01 potential use of reclaimed water, to go augment river
11:35:04 flow on the lower Hillsborough River.
11:35:06 And I'm here to tell you that this is a huge concern
11:35:11 of the people we have been speaking with in the
11:35:16 But with me over 225 letters that were written to
11:35:23 Mayor Iorio regarding this issue, of some city
11:35:32 That's only in a very few parts of this city.
11:35:34 We plan to continue speaking about this issue.
11:35:36 And finding out how people feel about it.
11:35:41 A number of things, a lot of fishermen that fish
11:35:45 Hillsborough bay and Tampa Bay, they rely on these
11:35:49 They go up in the river and spawn.
11:35:52 The potential of using reclaimed water or setting
11:35:58 minimum flow could potentially harm those areas that
11:36:03 those fish lay their eggs, eventually make their way
11:36:06 down river into the bay.
11:36:08 The fishermen that are for recreation and to sell
11:36:13 those fish, they need to have that supply.
11:36:18 And last week I saw a boat with some kids on an
11:36:26 innertube, pulling the innertube up the river.
11:36:29 We don't know what the health effects are using
11:36:31 reclaimed water on humans.
11:36:33 And with people that fish in the river and that swim
11:36:37 in the river, and do things like that, you know, we
11:36:42 need to be much more cautious with our discussion on
11:36:46 And I just wanted to point out something this is
11:36:52 something that the people in the city are really
11:36:54 concerned about.
11:36:55 And I'm sure you are going to hear more from them in
11:36:57 terms of letters and phone calls on the as we go
11:37:04 And the organization wants us to set a healthy minimum
11:37:08 flow for the river, of fresh water.
11:37:12 Not use the reclaimed water, fresh water.
11:37:14 That's what the river needs.
11:37:17 That's what the fish need.
11:37:19 That's how we came up with our own public health.
11:37:22 And the city's economy. The property values of people
11:37:24 that live along the river.
11:37:25 They need a healthy, unpolluted river to help upkeep
11:37:32 their own property values as well.
11:37:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:37:41 >>> Philip Contu with Florida action network, also
11:37:45 member of the mayor's river round table, the river
11:37:47 round table and friends of the river.
11:37:48 A little perspective on some things you heard this
11:37:51 morning and in recent weeks.
11:37:54 In April when the mayor held her state of the river
11:37:56 event, one thing that you didn't get to see was a
11:37:59 demonstration of how the dam as a structural
11:38:01 alteration on the river can allow whatever amount of
11:38:06 water we choose to allow.
11:38:08 Very precisely.
11:38:09 Mr. Baird told us that day that there wasn't the 3,000
11:38:13 gallons that it would have taken to allow the
11:38:16 About a month later, we read in the Tampa Tribune that
11:38:19 the change to one from two days a week of irrigation
11:38:24 allowed by citizens saved 15 million gallons a day.
11:38:29 They changed that several weeks after the mayor to
11:38:34 enact, is going to one day a week the only solution?
11:38:37 But that tells you that there are a lot of different
11:38:39 things that we can do to save water, and to provide
11:38:43 the river with the fresh water it needs.
11:38:45 Intelligent use of our water resources may very well
11:38:49 include -- may include additional AFR as Mr. Daignault
11:38:56 recommended in the Tampa Tribune, may include
11:39:00 industrial use of reclaimed water where we know it
11:39:02 would be safe, may include our greater promotion and
11:39:05 facilitation. Residential use of reclaimed water in
11:39:09 South Tampa, in central Tampa in, north Tampa, in New
11:39:11 Tampa, as we go forward.
11:39:13 But before we go forward with an expensive solution
11:39:17 that Tampa Bay water has estimated would cost $186
11:39:21 million to send a pipe lane to the river for the
11:39:23 purpose of augmentation, we should look at the fact
11:39:27 that this is something that millions of Dolores could
11:39:30 be spent on a type one infrastructure that in a few
11:39:34 years we might very well find was a terrible mistake.
11:39:38 We may find that we have done more harm than good.
11:39:42 We are trying to restore this river.
11:39:45 But in doing so we might actually degrade the river.
11:39:48 We might actually make it more difficult for the fish
11:39:50 populations and the wildlife to reproduce.
11:39:53 It's going to take involving citizens, neighborhoods,
11:39:57 scientists, and the business community to come up with
11:39:59 a full range of solutions that this community needs.
11:40:02 Now in case you think that is only a few environmental
11:40:06 whackos who care about our river, I have here today
11:40:09 about a thousand petition signatures in addition to
11:40:10 the 225 letters that Mr. McClary had for to you show
11:40:16 that whenever we have talked to people in the city
11:40:18 they did it and they care about this.
11:40:21 Does the city know best?
11:40:22 Does the district know best?
11:40:23 The scientific evidence from the five year study has
11:40:25 shown now that actually six years ago the city and the
11:40:28 district were wrong, that 10 feet per second of
11:40:31 Sulphur Springs water, not fresh water but Sulphur
11:40:34 Springs water, was inadequate and now we know we need
11:40:38 to come up with more than that.
11:40:40 Tampa Bay estuary program and EPC and friends of the
11:40:43 river were right back then.
11:40:50 If you send up this right now with reclaimed water you
11:40:53 risk enacting a permanent final solution that may
11:40:58 result in a high cost for fish and wildlife in the
11:41:00 river and Tampa Bay.
11:41:01 We have a responsibility to restore the nursery
11:41:04 function of the Hillsborough River for the entire
11:41:06 region, because that's where fish go to hatch their
11:41:09 eggs and raise their babies. So I want to present
11:41:13 this including the draft study that you may not have
11:41:16 seen from the city staff that shows that 26 cubic feet
11:41:20 per second in a fresh water zone down to Hanna's Whirl
11:41:25 is what the scientist have found is needed.
11:41:27 Thank you.
11:41:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:41:44 >>> My name is Bev Griffiths.
11:41:46 I'm the chair of the Tampa Bay Sierra Club
11:41:48 representing more than 2,000 members, and
11:41:51 approximately half of whom do reside in Tampa.
11:41:59 Our organization is dedicated to restoring the quality
11:42:02 of the natural and human environment environments.
11:42:04 We have legitimate concerns about the proposal to use
11:42:07 reclaimed water to supplement the lower Hillsborough
11:42:14 In order to achieve the required minimum flow.
11:42:16 This would be experimental.
11:42:18 The dangers to fish and other acquired life forms that
11:42:21 will be exposed to reclaimed water are unknown at this
11:42:26 We are concerned about elements that cannot be
11:42:29 filtered out such as hormones and perfumes.
11:42:33 There could be unintended consequences.
11:42:36 For example, hormones could change the ratio of female
11:42:44 to male or frog populations.
11:42:47 Perfumes could interfere with the mask, the natural
11:42:49 smells that aid fish in finding a mate or finding
11:42:55 We respectfully request the members of this task force
11:42:57 make it a priority to augment the lower Hillsborough
11:42:59 River with clean water.
11:43:03 I would also like to remind you that what is done to
11:43:06 the river affects the health of the bay and the Gulf
11:43:10 Thank you very much.
11:43:11 >>CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
11:43:22 >>> Director of the Tampa Bay estuary program,
11:43:24 108th Avenue southeast in St. Petersburg.
11:43:27 I really can't add anything to what you have heard
11:43:30 I think the previous speakers put it very eloquently.
11:43:34 The river is alive.
11:43:36 It's life, it's vitality depends on the continuous
11:43:41 source of fresh water into it.
11:43:46 I think the key word that I heard you mention it and
11:43:50 staff, management district and others, is striking
11:43:52 that important balance, balance between your top
11:43:55 priority, meeting water needs of the community,
11:43:57 against that important need for preserving our
11:44:01 So I could only encourage you and your staff, as you
11:44:06 go through these next critical couple of weeks and
11:44:08 months, leading up to that minimum flow, to carefully
11:44:12 consider the need of that river for fresh water to
11:44:16 maintain its vitality.
11:44:18 And the needs of the whole Tampa Bay is not just that
11:44:21 river itself that requires that fresh water.
11:44:23 But Tampa Bay as a whole in meeting the health.
11:44:29 Hillsborough River.
11:44:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:44:33 >> Planning staff to the Hillsborough board, technical
11:44:42 advisory council.
11:44:43 Under agenda items 4, 5 and 6 I think I was given 15
11:44:47 I am going to try to wrap all of this up into five if
11:44:51 I could, maybe summarize a little bit as to what we
11:44:55 If you are not familiar with the river board, we have
11:44:57 been around since 1986 so I we are marking our
11:45:01 20th year, and minimum flows and levels was always
11:45:04 an important issue that we discussed and talked about,
11:45:07 at nearly every meeting.
11:45:08 And we have seen all the presentations from the
11:45:10 district, Tampa Bay water, the EPC, from the DEP.
11:45:15 We also take into consideration other processes that
11:45:17 are underway such as the TNDL process and Adolph
11:45:24 processes proposed that are going on simultaneously so
11:45:27 we are trying to sort all of these things out.
11:45:32 Under our enabling legislation, there were other
11:45:35 issues, appointed to the river board to oversee and
11:45:41 try to coordinate management of with the water
11:45:44 management district and other regulatory agencies and
11:45:51 Those include water quality, water quantity,
11:45:56 protection of species, and the packet I handed out to
11:46:03 you yearly lists 20 years of different projects and
11:46:07 efforts that we have worked on, including speed zones
11:46:10 for marine craft on the river, Manatee zones, which
11:46:15 the city has always been very helpful in us getting
11:46:18 established, and enforcing.
11:46:22 One of the first things we got involved in in 1987 was
11:46:25 the closure of Sulphur Springs for water quality
11:46:27 there, at the pal.
11:46:30 Then the reinvigoration of that area about W the new
11:46:34 pool being opened and people in the neighborhood use
11:46:35 it a lot.
11:46:38 So there's a lot of issues besides just the river
11:46:43 minimum flows and levels that we look at.
11:46:46 We all look at that very diligently.
11:46:48 But we also are looking at other issues,
11:46:54 One of those that we are currently looking at will be
11:46:56 come to you in the future, has to do with river
11:47:03 It's come to our attention awhile back that the
11:47:06 Hillsborough County is the only county in the State of
11:47:08 Florida that does not have a marine contractor
11:47:17 licensing program.
11:47:17 We have been working with Hillsborough County to get
11:47:19 that in place.
11:47:21 Temple Terrace has a code, their building code
11:47:25 incorporates specifics for marine-related structures
11:47:29 such as docks, boat lifts, seawalls.
11:47:33 City of Tampa does not have that kind of regulatory
11:47:37 That is relegated to the Tampa port authority.
11:47:40 So we have been doing surveys of the river.
11:47:42 We have been talking about different structures that
11:47:44 impact visually, the aesthetics value of the river, if
11:47:50 you have structures that have roots, have been closed,
11:47:54 they changed the character of the river.
11:47:56 And so we will be coming to you in the near fought to
11:48:00 ask for some directions to how we can maybe get
11:48:03 something into code provisions for the City of Tampa.
11:48:08 Another issue --
11:48:10 (Bell sounds).
11:48:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:48:12 Would anyone else like to speak?
11:48:15 Do you want to wrap up something?
11:48:17 That's it?
11:48:18 Thank you for coming.
11:48:19 And we appreciate it.
11:48:25 And Mr. Daignault will keep us informed what's going
11:48:28 Thank you.
11:48:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like, since John
11:48:32 Dingfelder -- excuse me, I want you to pay
11:48:34 attention -- John Dingfelder is the City of Tampa's
11:48:38 representative on the Planning Commission's river
11:48:44 I would like him to attend the meeting that SWFWMD is
11:48:52 going to have at the end of July that's going to talk
11:48:54 about the minimum flows, and represent the concerns of
11:48:57 the citizens that we heard here today.
11:49:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I am not aware of the meeting but I
11:49:05 will be glad to attend.
11:49:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Is that a motion?
11:49:11 >> That's a motion.
11:49:12 >>GWEN MILLER: We need a second.
11:49:13 >> Second.
11:49:14 (Motion carried).
11:49:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 7 is a motion continued from last
11:49:23 >> Move the resolution.
11:49:23 >> Second.
11:49:24 (Motion carried).
11:49:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Number 8 is a resolution need to move.
11:49:28 >> So moved.
11:49:29 >> Second.
11:49:29 (Motion carried).
11:49:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 9.
11:49:35 Anyone here from administration?
11:49:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I think --
11:49:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you everybody for coming in.
11:49:42 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Does council intend to take --
11:49:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Now Mr. White is going to make a
11:49:54 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Bonnie Wise is in the back.
11:49:59 She's going to have to fight the crowd.
11:50:01 Maybe we can do nine when we come back from lunch.
11:50:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay, we'll do number 9.
11:50:06 Is anybody from administration here?
11:50:07 Number 9?
11:50:08 Here she comes.
11:50:20 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Do you want to let Chief Jones go
11:50:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Can we let Chief Jones?
11:50:27 Ways ways absolutely.
11:50:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Number 13.
11:50:29 So you won't have to come back after lunch.
11:50:32 I know you have a lot to do.
11:50:36 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Fires to fight.
11:50:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Fires to put out.
11:50:41 >>> Chief Jones: Thank you, Madam Chair and members
11:50:43 of the council.
11:50:44 Dennis Jones, Tampa fire.
11:50:45 I want to talk to you briefly about the state of the
11:50:50 emergency preparedness in the City of Tampa.
11:50:54 This was -- I'm going to the Elmo.
11:50:59 The week of June 12th through 16 was proclaimed as
11:51:05 Tampa hurricane awareness week.
11:51:09 When that proclamation was made we were not aware that
11:51:13 tropical storm Alberto would arrive with the beginning
11:51:15 of hurricane awareness week.
11:51:17 But part of that is we want the citizens to be aware
11:51:21 that they need to prepare.
11:51:23 We as a city have been preparing and we certainly
11:51:26 would expect the citizens to do the same.
11:51:28 This week is going to focus on hurricane awareness,
11:51:33 and will culminate at the end of the week with a
11:51:36 neighborhood fair and hurricane Expo which we'll talk
11:51:39 about in just a few minutes.
11:51:42 And if we could go to the presentation on the
11:51:53 >> I want to bring you up to date. The last time I
11:51:55 was here with Larry Ginspert to talk about how we were
11:52:01 planning, I want to tell what you we have done since
11:52:03 last hurricane season.
11:52:05 The mayor did place emergency management under Tampa
11:52:07 Fire Rescue and we were able to hire a new emergency
11:52:11 coordinator in December of 2005.
11:52:14 Since that time, we have addressed NIMS, National
11:52:20 Incident Management System, which is how we plan
11:52:25 hurricanes and things of that nature.
11:52:26 That is a requirement and it is a federal requirement
11:52:29 in order to continue receiving federal funds, and that
11:52:31 has been addressed.
11:52:33 We also addressed continuity of operation COOP and
11:52:38 continuity of government COG, and that is a plan so
11:52:41 that a building is not inhabitable due to hurricanes
11:52:44 or any other reason, there is another location where
11:52:48 we can set up government within a short period of
11:52:51 We are hoping within 24 hours, and continue city
11:52:57 We have also addressed satellite phones and GPS so if
11:53:01 all communications go down we'll at least have some
11:53:03 communications through the means of satellite, and for
11:53:06 those areas that -- what we have learned in the past,
11:53:10 street signs and other landmarks are going, even
11:53:13 people that are life-long residents are unable to find
11:53:16 their way around because there's nothing to help you
11:53:17 recognize where you are.
11:53:20 The GPS will allow you to do that.
11:53:22 Global positions system.
11:53:24 And we are proposing that we purchase those at the
11:53:27 time that the emergency is declared, and it arrives in
11:53:33 We have purchased MREs and water.
11:53:36 This is for the first responders, police, fire, public
11:53:38 works, that will be out on the street doing search and
11:53:41 rescue, security, and debris clearing.
11:53:44 MREs are meals ready to eat.
11:53:46 That's what the military uses in the field.
11:53:48 And this is so that they can continue working with a
11:53:51 minimum down time.
11:53:52 Those have already been purchased and are in our
11:53:55 supply warehouse now.
11:53:56 We have also secured a male plan so we can provide hot
11:53:59 meals to the workers at the beginning and end of each
11:54:02 They are going to be away from their homes for quite
11:54:05 The new emergency coordinator has written a Tampa
11:54:10 comprehensive emergency management plan the first of
11:54:15 its kind for Tampa and also rewritten the emergency
11:54:18 operation center standard operation guideline.
11:54:19 That's what all those initials are up there. It's a
11:54:23 new comprehensive emergency management plan, and an
11:54:26 EOC emergency standard operating guideline.
11:54:30 We reconfigured the EOC.
11:54:32 Our city EOC is located in the training room at the
11:54:36 police and fire communications center.
11:54:38 That has been reconfigured, laid out in a way that is
11:54:41 much more functional as an EOC.
11:54:43 And we purchased E-team, an electronic platform to
11:54:47 manage managers.
11:54:50 We have been working very closely with Hillsborough
11:54:52 County EOC.
11:54:53 In fact, I spent the entire day Monday at Hillsborough
11:54:56 County EOC, as we were planning for the arrival of
11:55:02 Additionally with other departments, to make sure that
11:55:04 the city residents are prepared for any impact that a
11:55:08 storm may bring.
11:55:10 Some of the things that we have focused on are
11:55:14 Hartline routes, and I am going back on the Elmo.
11:55:21 One of our major concerns is the citizens of Tampa
11:55:28 that either don't have transportation, or are limited
11:55:32 in transportation, and they live in evacuation zones,
11:55:36 and the map you see here shows the various routes
11:55:39 through the city.
11:55:40 There are ten routes.
11:55:41 Four of them -- four of them originate in the Interbay
11:55:51 peninsula and terminate at one of the Red Cross
11:55:54 During the time of an emergency evacuation, when an
11:55:57 evacuation is declared, the buses will begin to run
11:56:00 those routes from the Interbay peninsula and other
11:56:03 evacuation areas, terminating in a shelter, that fares
11:56:08 will be free.
11:56:09 They will turn the fare meter off and all riders will
11:56:12 ride for free.
11:56:13 (Bell sounds).
11:56:13 It's okay to go on?
11:56:14 At the end of the emergency, when we are back to
11:56:17 normal operations, we are allowed to reenter, we will
11:56:20 then give them the ride back to their homes from the
11:56:29 Back to the PowerPoint.
11:56:31 We have also verified the availability of school
11:56:36 There are approximately a thousand school buses,
11:56:38 Hillsborough County school district, and over 300 bus
11:56:40 drivers that are prepared to drive those buses.
11:56:43 And we also have personnel that are prepared to drive
11:56:46 those buses in the case that we need additional
11:56:53 One of the important items is that the ability to be
11:56:56 able to communicate between departments, police, fire,
11:56:59 sheriff, Hillsborough County, the various agencies,
11:57:02 and we do indeed have a network set up so that
11:57:04 regardless of the department we are wishing to speak
11:57:08 to, we can communicate on our vehicles.
11:57:12 We had a very proactive public awareness campaign.
11:57:15 Many of you probably received your utility news and
11:57:19 And this went out in March and April.
11:57:21 And the back page of the utility news included the
11:57:25 special needs registration form.
11:57:27 That has been a very effective campaign.
11:57:30 I would say that today we know that there are 2,459
11:57:35 people in the City of Tampa that have special needs.
11:57:38 1300 of them are going to go to special needs
11:57:40 Some to hospitals.
11:57:42 Some to Shriners.
11:57:44 Those are the children.
11:57:45 Then about a thousand that are going to go to just Red
11:57:47 Cross shelters.
11:57:48 That's because an aggressive awareness campaign to
11:57:51 register our citizens.
11:57:55 Additionally, Tampa fire has gone to every assisted
11:58:00 living facility, every nursing home, every assisted
11:58:02 living facility, evaluated their evacuation plan and
11:58:06 verified they do indeed have a plan and helped inform
11:58:09 them about the special needs registration.
11:58:15 You all could register for special needs on the Tampa
11:58:17 GOV web site that is there now.
11:58:20 We have gone to many organizations such as meals on
11:58:22 wheels, Metropolitan Ministries, the homeowners
11:58:27 network, the homeowners associations, department of
11:58:30 managers association.
11:58:31 We are -- inspections division and firefighters have
11:58:34 gone to visit each one to verify that they do know
11:58:40 they are in an evacuation zone and that they have a
11:58:42 plan for that.
11:58:43 There was a utility bill mailer that I showed you a
11:58:46 moment ago.
11:58:51 There is a city-wide evacuation zone, opportunity on
11:58:54 our web site.
11:58:54 You can go to Tampa gov.net type in your address and
11:58:59 it will tell you what vocational zone you are in so
11:59:01 you know if you need to evacuate.
11:59:03 We also have used Tampa Police Department's reverse
11:59:06 911 to call the residents, and the plan is that all
11:59:11 mobile home parks when they are evacuated would
11:59:13 receive that phone call.
11:59:14 And then we will go door to door in the mobile home
11:59:16 parks to make sure that they receive the information.
11:59:20 Emergency management, the city's emergency management
11:59:23 participated in exercises in St. Pete, Orlando, as
11:59:26 well as the city-county exercise.
11:59:29 And we are preparing and planning a mass mailer to all
11:59:32 city residents that will include an evacuation map,
11:59:34 and some basic information on hurricane preparedness.
11:59:40 Again, your evacuation zones can be determined on the
11:59:43 TAMPAGOV web sites.
11:59:46 We encourage all citizens to look at that and know
11:59:51 their zones.
11:59:52 We are trying to work with the boy scouts and
11:59:54 Hillsborough County school districts, students
11:59:56 receiving hours for community service hours, to go out
12:00:00 into the neighborhoods and help spread the information
12:00:01 of hurricane awareness and preparation.
12:00:05 CTTV this month is running our hurricane preparedness
12:00:09 show all month, a 30-minute show, very informative.
12:00:12 I would encourage you to watch for that.
12:00:17 And we make sure that we have all of the boats that we
12:00:21 needed and we know exactly where they are located.
12:00:23 We are actively discussing the Tampa general, their
12:00:27 plans to evacuate.
12:00:28 As you know they are right on the tip of Davis Island
12:00:30 and we are very concerned about the safety of the
12:00:32 hospital and those that are there.
12:00:36 We have suggested a plan to identify sex offenders.
12:00:39 One of the things in the last years have been very
12:00:41 important to the citizens here, is the need to be
12:00:44 aware of sex offenders.
12:00:54 We'll make sure that's checked out.
12:00:55 Also ensuring all the state level initiatives so that
12:00:59 when money begins to flow we are in the loop and that
12:01:01 we have all the paperwork.
12:01:04 Finally, the police and parking department are
12:01:06 finalizing the reentry plan so that after the storm,
12:01:10 that we hope we don't have this year, after the storm
12:01:13 we'll be able to quickly establish reentry points,
12:01:16 checkpoints, to allow the citizens back to check on
12:01:19 their homes and the welfare of that.
12:01:21 We are also working on a contra flow plan for the
12:01:25 expressway from MacDill up to the Air Force Base,
12:01:31 up to I-75 to try to assist with evacuation of
12:01:35 MacDill and the residents coming across Gandy from
12:01:37 Pinellas County.
12:01:38 The Florida department of transportation has seen that
12:01:41 as valuable, and are now doing the engineering studies
12:01:44 to use that as a local mitigation strategy.
12:01:48 And the final thing here is that we are planning a big
12:01:53 fair at Raymond James on Saturday, in just a moment I
12:01:57 am going to introduce Shannon Edge to talk about that.
12:02:00 But part of that fair is the hurricane Expo.
12:02:02 We are going to have a hurricane alley set up with
12:02:06 most of the government services in the area.
12:02:09 Hurricane preparedness, hurricane awareness.
12:02:11 We are also going to have a simulated hurricane wind
12:02:16 We are going to get the fan that we understand
12:02:19 produces about 70 mile-per-hour winds.
12:02:21 And you can actually stand in the wind there and get a
12:02:24 feel for what the wind will be like.
12:02:27 My final slide here on the PowerPoint says, in order
12:02:31 to be prepared, we ask that you know your evacuation
12:02:34 zone, that you have an emergency plan, that you have
12:02:38 also an emergency kit with a minimum of three-day
12:02:41 supply of water, food, medical needs.
12:02:44 Remember that you have to have a plan for your pets.
12:02:46 Most of the shelters will not receive pets.
12:02:49 There are only two shelters in Hillsborough County
12:02:51 that will allow pets.
12:02:53 And our final comment is if you are not in an
12:03:00 evacuation zone, you are much better off to stay in
12:03:02 your home in an interior room with no windows.
12:03:05 We say evacuate tens of miles, not hundreds of miles.
12:03:09 One of the major lessons learned from last year's
12:03:11 hurricane season was an effort to evacuate far too
12:03:14 many citizens that were not in an evacuation zone.
12:03:18 When we make the call please leave early and that will
12:03:20 help us out.
12:03:22 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Thank you, Chief Jones.
12:03:24 This is very informative.
12:03:25 And I know that hopefully that the citizens of Tampa
12:03:29 are heeding your warnings and your preparations for
12:03:33 I have a question that you brought up.
12:03:35 You said that some of the evacuations would occur with
12:03:38 the children and you mentioned Shriners.
12:03:42 Where are the shelters for the children at the
12:03:46 >> Those would actually be patients that would need
12:03:50 medical assistance.
12:03:52 These would be very ill.
12:03:53 And they will actually be taken to the Shriners
12:03:56 hospital on the USF property by rescue transport
12:04:00 >> So there's a Shriners hospital at USF.
12:04:04 >>> That's correct.
12:04:05 They will accept that.
12:04:06 >> Because I was thinking of one on the causeway.
12:04:09 >> Oh, no.
12:04:12 >> That wouldn't work too well there.
12:04:14 Thanks very much.
12:04:14 That was a great present and I'm hoping that everyone
12:04:16 will heed this warning and I think we again, we again
12:04:21 didn't see any problems with this tropical storm.
12:04:25 >> We were very fortunate.
12:04:26 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Very, very fortunate.
12:04:28 Thank you very much.
12:04:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Mrs. Ferlita.
12:04:30 >>ROSE FERLITA: Chief, I very quickly referenced the
12:04:35 fact it was a pleasure working with you on public
12:04:37 safety and that's for sure.
12:04:38 As well, although this is an additional responsibility
12:04:42 for you, I'm very happy that you're in charge of our
12:04:44 emergency service plan.
12:04:45 And we appreciate that.
12:04:47 I wasn't going to bring up something today because our
12:04:50 agenda has been so packed.
12:04:51 But in your PowerPoint you referenced it.
12:04:53 And let me first of all say that obviously the
12:04:58 importance is in terms of priority.
12:05:00 And the safety of our citizens is number one at the
12:05:04 In listening to some emergency preparedness seminars
12:05:07 that I have gone to with Pat Bean, who has been the
12:05:10 speaker, we spoke basically and later by telephone, I
12:05:17 think we saw the last time around, we want to make
12:05:22 sure people vacant and that they are safe.
12:05:25 There's some priorities in people's lives and a lot of
12:05:29 senior citizens in New Orleans, the Mississippi area,
12:05:33 prefer to be with their pets rather than stay safe
12:05:37 with their pets.
12:05:38 The fact that I think there's some national
12:05:41 legislation that if you accept FEMA dollars, you have
12:05:43 to have some sort of plan for your pet.
12:05:46 And I have contacted Pat Bean.
12:05:49 I have an appointment with Mary Ellen.
12:05:52 I have talked to Linda baker who is the Executive
12:05:54 Director of the Humane Society.
12:05:56 And to some of the upper staff with Hillsborough
12:05:58 County animal services.
12:06:00 I want to coordinate some sort of plan that's not in
12:06:03 contract to a competitive with what we want to do with
12:06:07 our citizens, but at the same time, you mentioned the
12:06:10 fact that there was one and now there are two sites
12:06:13 that are going to be pet shelters adjacent to the
12:06:17 facility that we are going to provide and the county
12:06:18 is going to provide for our citizens.
12:06:21 And obviously what would happen, for instance, if you
12:06:23 come there and that part of the shelter is filled,
12:06:27 most people aren't going to say, okay, I'll try, and
12:06:31 I'm leaving my dog outside.
12:06:33 That's not going to happen.
12:06:34 So I'm wondering if I could ask your assistance in
12:06:36 trying to craft some sort of a plan for that portion
12:06:40 of our emergency preparedness, and perhaps sit with
12:06:43 that group and me and suggest something that again
12:06:46 does not compete with safeguarding the citizens of our
12:06:49 city, but making them feel good, but we have something
12:06:52 in place, more than just two county schools that will
12:06:56 act as shelters.
12:06:57 I have done some research and I don't need to go into
12:07:00 all these things ,but I would love it if you would
12:07:02 consider working with me to try to get that done.
12:07:05 As I said, I have the plan kind of in place on my desk
12:07:08 at home but today because we have had so many things.
12:07:13 Madam Chairman, once that's done, I wonder if I might
12:07:16 come back to you and ask for support from our
12:07:18 >>GWEN MILLER: That would be great.
12:07:20 Mr. Dingfelder.
12:07:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: One quick thing.
12:07:23 Chief, you mentioned going to our City of Tampa web
12:07:26 site to find out more information.
12:07:28 That's a wonderful thing.
12:07:29 How about a phone number for people who are not on
12:07:31 computers especially in regard to registering for
12:07:33 special needs or any other hurricane preparedness
12:07:37 >>> Hurricane information is 232-6890.
12:07:42 And you can call the Hillsborough County emergency
12:07:45 management office for registration.
12:07:48 And if you will give me a second I will give you that
12:07:52 >> 232-6890.
12:07:55 >> That's the City of Tampa hurricane number.
12:07:59 276-2385 is Hillsborough County.
12:08:02 And they are responsible for special needs
12:08:12 >>> Shannon, quickly.
12:08:14 >>> Very quickly.
12:08:15 Good afternoon, members of City Council.
12:08:16 I'm Shannon Edge, director of neighborhood and
12:08:18 community relations.
12:08:19 And very briefly, I wanted to stop by and talk about
12:08:24 the City of Tampa's neighborhood hurricane Expo this
12:08:28 Saturday at Raymond James stadium from 10 a.m. to 3
12:08:31 And yesterday, we did deliver to all of you and your
12:08:34 aids, an information packet.
12:08:39 It's too much to go over but we wanted to make sure
12:08:41 that you are aware of it.
12:08:44 Hello, upside down.
12:08:45 To go over the information to see if you have any
12:08:48 questions regarding Saturday's event.
12:08:50 We do understand that some of you will be gone which
12:08:52 we have duly noted that you had prior engagements.
12:08:56 We have been working on this since 2004 thanks to the
12:08:58 wonderful Sports Authority.
12:08:59 And I have to acknowledge the wonderful team, that
12:09:04 have been living, breathing, sleeping this.
12:09:07 It's going to be a great event.
12:09:08 We want everyone to come out and know how to get
12:09:10 prepared for hurricane preparedness, having fun and
12:09:12 learning about your government.
12:09:13 Our information is both on line at Tampagov dot net.
12:09:24 Radio Disney is going to be there.
12:09:26 That's a buzz word with kids.
12:09:28 So come on, it's a family oriented day.
12:09:30 I want to stress, free, free, free.
12:09:33 And all of our wonderful departments will be there.
12:09:39 The pirate ship at 11 a.m.
12:09:41 For members of council as well as the department heads
12:09:44 we will be doing introductions on the stage as we did
12:09:47 in 2004.
12:09:47 Thank you.
12:09:48 And can I answer any questions?
12:09:50 And Desiree Valdez has been a wonderful contact for
12:09:55 you all, she'll be at the site tonight if you have any
12:09:59 spare time.
12:09:59 We are going to be stuck inside stuffing tote bags
12:10:03 until we finish.
12:10:04 Can I answer any questions?
12:10:05 >>> You were looking at me when you said some of us
12:10:07 were not going.
12:10:08 Not that anybody cares whether I am going to be there
12:10:10 or not be there.
12:10:11 >> We care.
12:10:13 >> I think this is important from the standpoint of
12:10:15 community interaction.
12:10:16 I just wanted to just note -- and I know I have
12:10:20 committed to the to be a speaker at the pharmacy
12:10:26 association because that's pharmacists and government.
12:10:28 But I think it's going to be informative.
12:10:30 And I think that people will be losing a good
12:10:32 opportunity if they don't attend.
12:10:33 So I'm so sorry.
12:10:35 >> We understand and we know even some department
12:10:37 heads, I'm not looking at you like you aren't going to
12:10:41 be there.
12:10:42 Knowing that everyone can't be there and tropical
12:10:44 storm Alberto even though it caused us a little bit of
12:10:47 craziness this week it's actually helped us and I know
12:10:50 speaking yesterday we are anticipating to exceed our
12:10:54 goal of 5,000 people because I think it got people to
12:10:56 think I need to be prepared for hurricane.
12:10:58 So we want it to be a fun, free, free, free,
12:11:01 informative day for all our citizens.
12:11:03 >> When is that?
12:11:05 >>> Saturday.
12:11:06 >> What time and where?
12:11:07 >>> 10 a.m. to 3 p.m.
12:11:09 Raymond James.
12:11:11 We put this on the original e-mail to you all on
12:11:15 >> I knew it.
12:11:17 >>> Give me a heart attack.
12:11:18 But it's this Saturday.
12:11:20 Raymond James.
12:11:20 And again, Sports Authority has been just wonderful
12:11:22 letting us have the stadium for this great event.
12:11:25 So we'll see hopefully all of you at the next
12:11:27 neighborhood --
12:11:29 >> Shannon, thank you very much.
12:11:30 >>> Thank you.
12:11:31 Thank you.
12:11:31 >>MARY ALVAREZ: You do good work.
12:11:33 >>GWEN MILLER: Cathy Coyle needed to do a short thing.
12:11:38 She can't come back after lunch.
12:11:40 She has a meeting.
12:11:42 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
12:11:43 This is item 12, the wet zoning changes, chapter 3.
12:11:48 I was to report back to let you know basically that we
12:11:51 went through all of the discussions, comments from the
12:11:54 last meeting, Rebecca Kert and I sat down, addressed
12:11:57 all the changes that council had directed us to.
12:12:01 And we have also -- Rebecca sat down with a few
12:12:04 attorneys that process many wet zonings.
12:12:07 We have had some comments from some other
12:12:09 We will be reporting to the YCDC on June 27th.
12:12:13 And we would ask for any written comments from anyone
12:12:16 in the public no later than July 21st that. All
12:12:19 leads up to the final question of whether or not you
12:12:22 would like to schedule a second workshop to discuss
12:12:24 all the changes and input.
12:12:27 Or if you would like to schedule the first reading of
12:12:29 the changes.
12:12:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Give your comments to Ms. Coyle.
12:12:38 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Schedule a first reading.
12:12:39 >>> I would suggest we do that on a day when you don't
12:12:41 have a p.m. meeting.
12:12:43 We would be looking at August 3rd and or August
12:12:48 >>ROSE FERLITA: Judging by day we always have p.m.
12:12:50 meetings. The morning meetings is a p.m. meeting.
12:12:55 >>> After six.
12:12:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: August 3rd, should we say at
12:12:59 the end of the meeting?
12:13:02 >>CATHERINE COYLE: For first reading.
12:13:05 It can be a time certain.
12:13:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You could set the public hearing
12:13:11 for --
12:13:13 >>GWEN MILLER: At 10:00.
12:13:14 We have a motion and second.
12:13:15 (Motion carried).
12:13:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY: August --
12:13:20 >>> August 3rd, 10 a.m.
12:13:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Bonnie Wise, I want to apologize to
12:13:25 I skipped you to go to Mr. Jones.
12:13:27 And now members are ready to go to lunch.
12:13:31 So you will be the first one when we come back at
12:13:34 >>MARY ALVAREZ: You go to lunch too.
12:13:36 >>GWEN MILLER: We'll be in recess till 1:30.
12:13:39 (Recess taken at 12:17 p.m.)
Tampa City Council
Thursday, June 15, 2006
1:30 p.m. session
The following represents an unedited version of
realtime captioning which should neither be relied
upon for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
The original of this transcript was produced in all
capital letters and any variation thereto may be a
result of third party edits and software compatibility
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.
13:38:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Tampa City Council is called to order.
13:39:02 Roll call.
13:39:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
13:39:04 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Here.
13:39:04 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Here.
13:39:09 >>KEVIN WHITE: (No response)
13:39:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Here we are going to start with Karen
13:39:12 Palus if she's here.
13:39:15 >>KAREN PALUS: Good afternoon.
13:39:20 You had asked for us to appear and provide some
13:39:22 information on a couple of sites for a renaming of a
13:39:27 recreation facility in the East Tampa, and or the
13:39:30 Sulphur Springs area.
13:39:32 We have two recommendations for you today.
13:39:35 One of which would potentially be done before the end
13:39:38 of the year which is on Cyrus Green facility currently
13:39:43 under construction, of which that should be done
13:39:46 hopefully within the next few months as we keep moving
13:39:49 along with the issues there, that has the naming
13:39:52 It's located in Cyrus green park, the old College Hill
13:39:56 name, after the subdivision in which it was held
13:39:59 previously so it has a naming opportunity there, as
13:40:01 well as after this morning's CIP approval we have the
13:40:06 facility potentially built in the spring hills cypress
13:40:10 springs facility so that has a naming opportunity.
13:40:13 We also did a little bit of research on the first
13:40:17 African-American supervisor in the parks and
13:40:20 He wasn't actually the first.
13:40:21 We had Mrs. Hamilton who was actually the first.
13:40:24 However, Mr. Brady was very instrumental in expanding
13:40:27 all the opportunities in our recreational program in
13:40:30 the African-American community.
13:40:33 If there's any direction I'll be happy to work with
13:40:36 legal as far as bringing a resolution forward.
13:40:39 >> Mr. White made that motion.
13:40:40 He's not here.
13:40:42 So I have to get back with you.
13:40:43 And let you know what we want to do.
13:40:46 >> All right.
13:40:46 Thank you all.
13:40:47 >>GWEN MILLER: We are going to go to item number 14,
13:40:57 Mr. Chen.
13:40:58 >> Item 14 we were asked to appear to discuss that
13:41:01 potential creating an area-wide brownfield designation
13:41:04 in the Channel District.
13:41:07 Quickly and simply, yes, you can do an area-wide
13:41:12 However, staff recommends that you do not do so.
13:41:16 I have had a number of communications with Dan in the
13:41:21 office of environmental coordination for the city.
13:41:23 He's actually advised me that the city has 12 current
13:41:28 brownfield designation was three designations pending,
13:41:32 and out of that total of 15, only 4 of those
13:41:35 designations are in the Channel District.
13:41:39 Most specifically 10700 Channelside, seaport
13:41:43 Channelside, the place, and Grand Central.
13:41:52 Don goes further to say none of the other development
13:41:54 projects completed in Channel District have applied to
13:41:56 the city for a designation.
13:41:59 This would suggest that there's land in the district
13:42:01 that may not have environmental issues associated with
13:42:06 And the recommendation to not do this is because to do
13:42:10 an area-wide brownfield designation could put a cloud
13:42:15 over clean property and is not necessarily in the best
13:42:19 interest of developers to do so.
13:42:21 Any questions or anything, I'll be happy --
13:42:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Mrs. Saul-Sena.
13:42:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Is there an expense for the city in
13:42:29 doing this brownfield designation?
13:42:32 >> I haven't been advised that there is an expense.
13:42:36 There certainly is a process to do it and it does have
13:42:38 to come before City Council and so forth for it to be
13:42:42 It's really a designation that's meant to first of all
13:42:45 clean up environmental issues on our property.
13:42:48 But secondly there are some tax credits that in order
13:42:55 for the developer who is faced with brownfield issues.
13:42:59 >> But that's exactly my point.
13:43:02 To me, if the city takes on the responsibility of
13:43:06 dealing with brownfield issues, and then makes that
13:43:09 property available to the private sector, it's really
13:43:11 a gift, an incentive for redevelopment, and it's the
13:43:15 tools that I think we should look at in many of our
13:43:18 CRA areas, including Drew Park and East Tampa, as well
13:43:22 as the Channel District.
13:43:24 They have been previously zoned industrial, and have
13:43:27 polluting industrial uses and now we are trying to
13:43:32 redevelop them.
13:43:32 So you don't need to answer me quickly but it's
13:43:35 something that I think we should really look at as
13:43:37 incentive for redevelopment in these areas that have
13:43:40 previously been declared blighted.
13:43:42 >>MICHAEL CHEN: Actually, I do have some more
13:43:44 information if I might try to address that.
13:43:46 Certainly you are all aware that we are just at the
13:43:49 completion of the strategic action plan in the Channel
13:43:53 This issue was brought up with the Wilson Miller team
13:43:56 and explored.
13:43:57 They also came to the conclusion not to include it as
13:43:59 a recommendation in their report.
13:44:02 Again just for the reasons that I mentioned.
13:44:04 And then to go even further, I have spoken with
13:44:07 several frequently present zoning attorneys and
13:44:12 developers who are in that district and asked their
13:44:15 opinions about this.
13:44:20 Almost totally they suggested they would prefer not to
13:44:22 see this.
13:44:23 And the only exception just expressed, they were
13:44:27 ambivalent if the city were to do this or not.
13:44:30 So I do try to get as much research in this as
13:44:33 possible from a variety of different perspectives.
13:44:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Mr. Chen.
13:44:39 Item number 15, move the resolution.
13:44:42 >> So moved.
13:44:43 >> Second.
13:44:43 (Motion carried).
13:44:44 >>GWEN MILLER: item number 10.
13:44:51 No one here from administration for that?
13:44:53 Mrs. Saul-Sena, you made that motion.
13:44:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would move to put it on next
13:44:58 year -- next year's? -- next week's agenda and have
13:45:02 a written report.
13:45:03 >> Second.
13:45:04 >> We have a motion and second.
13:45:05 (Motion carried)
13:45:07 Number 10.
13:45:17 Number 9.
13:45:18 Are you ready?
13:45:19 >>BONNIE WISE: Director of revenue and finance.
13:45:23 And I'm here to speak on item it.
13:45:26 You all have asked what the possibility is of lowering
13:45:30 the ad valorem millage rate.
13:45:32 And I wanted to share some numbers with you in that
13:45:51 And I was using this year's property tax budget as our
13:45:57 You can see there that we have property taxes
13:46:00 approximately 139 million.
13:46:02 As you know, our millage rate is currently 6.539
13:46:08 The value of one mill is just over $21 million.
13:46:12 And, therefore, I did some math for you, the value of
13:46:15 a tenth of a mill is just over $2 million.
13:46:18 2.1 million.
13:46:19 And in your motion you talked about a reduction of 2%.
13:46:23 So I wanted to quantify that for you.
13:46:25 So if that was going to affect this budget we are we
13:46:28 are currently in at $139 million, that would be about
13:46:32 2.8 million in property taxes that would have
13:46:39 And what does that mean to a homeowner that was
13:46:45 another I shall to you share.
13:46:56 I did this analysis for you two ways, but you can use
13:46:58 any assessed value of home for this particular
13:47:01 I did it for a home that's assessed at $200,000.
13:47:04 And I also did it for a home that's assessed at
13:47:08 But if we look at the one for 200,000 --
13:47:11 >> Do you want to put this on the overhead?
13:47:14 >>BONNIE WISE: Sure.
13:47:15 Then I do need one back.
13:47:30 Thank you.
13:47:31 I just can't see that far.
13:47:32 For the analysis for --
13:47:35 >> Maybe they can zoom in a little.
13:47:38 >> And I'm looking at the one on the left for $200,000
13:47:50 Let's assume that somebody has a homestead exemption
13:47:53 for $25,000.
13:47:55 And therefore the part that gets taxed is $175,000.
13:48:03 At the current millage they would pay city taxes of
13:48:08 If there was a 2% reduction, that would bring the
13:48:12 millage to 6.048 mills and pay 1121 dollars, the
13:48:19 difference of $22.89.
13:48:22 Now I know that sometimes you get constituents ask you
13:48:27 like pay $4,000 a year in property taxes.
13:48:30 When they say that, typically, they are talking about
13:48:34 their entire property tax bill.
13:48:36 They are not just talking about the amount that gets
13:48:40 paid to the city.
13:48:41 Of course what we are talking about today is that 25%
13:48:44 of their whole property tax bill that goes to the
13:48:47 It's not what goes to the school board.
13:48:49 It's not what goes to the county.
13:48:50 It's not what goes to SWFWMD.
13:48:52 Not what goes to the state.
13:48:54 It is only the part that goes to the city.
13:48:56 That is what we all have control over.
13:49:01 And the similar analysis on the right side is a home
13:49:03 at 250,000.
13:49:05 So I wanted for you to see magnitude, what impact it
13:49:09 would have to the city, as well as what impact it has
13:49:11 on an individual homeowner.
13:49:15 As you know, we have been going through the budget
13:49:18 We have had a few budget meetings with you already.
13:49:21 We had a six-month update and gave you analysis of
13:49:25 where we expect to be by the end of this fiscal year.
13:49:28 We did that on May 22nd.
13:49:30 And I actually have parts of that presentation loaded
13:49:36 in the PowerPoint if you would like me to go through
13:49:38 What I shared with you then is some of the numbers
13:49:42 that we are receiving not only on property taxes --
13:49:44 because as you know that's only a percentage of all of
13:49:47 our revenues.
13:49:48 But also what's happening with other revenues.
13:49:50 Federal funds.
13:49:51 Sales tax.
13:49:52 Communications services tax.
13:49:54 Some of these revenues are going up.
13:49:57 However, some have been declining over time.
13:50:02 The other thing I shared in that presentation is
13:50:04 what's happening on our expense side.
13:50:06 Because we can't just look at one area of our revenue
13:50:08 without looking at our entire picture.
13:50:10 So what's happening with health insurance?
13:50:12 What's happening with property insurance?
13:50:14 And like I said, I do have all those figures for you.
13:50:17 You do know, because you have been reading in the
13:50:19 paper, and you received the memo from Mike McNabb,
13:50:25 property insurance is one that has really affected us.
13:50:27 As you know, we have been unable to even purchase
13:50:30 property insurance that is similar to what we
13:50:35 purchased last year.
13:50:36 Last year, we had $500 million of coverage.
13:50:39 And this year we have basically 30 million for a name
13:50:44 storm and 200 million for other perils and for that we
13:50:49 got to pay an extra 1.3 million for.
13:50:51 So those are the things that we are facing.
13:50:56 (Bell sounds).
13:50:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Go ahead.
13:50:57 >>> Thank you.
13:50:58 In addition, as you know, we had a budget meeting last
13:51:01 week, a week ago Monday, where we talked about the
13:51:04 enterprise funds.
13:51:06 We had another budget workshop with you all on Monday,
13:51:10 we are going to talk about police, fire, and parks and
13:51:12 And then you have scheduled two more coming up.
13:51:16 And the reason we have police, fire and parks and rec
13:51:18 together, in a workshop, is because when we look at
13:51:21 the budget, those are the things we look at first.
13:51:24 What do our -- war our public safety needs?
13:51:28 What are our commitments to public safety?
13:51:30 What new officers do we know that we have coming?
13:51:32 What new firefighters do we know that we have coming?
13:51:35 And parks and rec.
13:51:37 We are opening new recreational centers.
13:51:38 We have to staff them.
13:51:39 So when we look at the budget, that's where we start.
13:51:43 And that's where we go.
13:51:45 And then we go from there.
13:51:46 We look at code, other neighborhood services, and go
13:51:50 through each department.
13:51:51 We are doing that now.
13:51:53 You are doing that with us now in our budget
13:51:57 We have requests, for example, from fire, you know, I
13:52:02 gave you all that big book that had all that budget
13:52:05 And I know that it's by department, and this
13:52:10 information is in your book.
13:52:11 The fire has requested 29 sworn positions for
13:52:15 civilian, police has requested sworn 36 civilian, we
13:52:21 have to go through that.
13:52:22 You all need to go through that with us.
13:52:24 And we need to go through each department to see what
13:52:27 their true needs are going forward.
13:52:29 But to look at just one particular revenue source
13:52:33 without looking at the big picture, I think it's very
13:52:36 difficult and that's what we are doing during this
13:52:39 budget process.
13:52:39 Of course, on August 3rd is when we are scheduled
13:52:42 to come before you to present full balanced budget
13:52:45 before you.
13:52:46 As of this minute, we don't know what that budget is
13:52:49 going to show, because this is the process that we are
13:52:51 going through to do full analysis, to make sure
13:52:54 everything is adequately covered.
13:52:59 Just to put in perspective, the 2% reduction of
13:53:06 2.8 million is basically the size of, you know,
13:53:10 certain department's budget, that's the HR budget.
13:53:14 It is basically the city clerk and the City Council's
13:53:17 budget if you would combine them.
13:53:19 Just to give you a feel for what magnitude we are
13:53:23 talking about.
13:53:24 So I just think that that's important.
13:53:26 The other thing as we go forward, we just had the CIT
13:53:30 public hearings, and CIT as now is terrific revenue
13:53:33 source and we have four new fire stations, CIT.
13:53:37 And CIT pays for the station.
13:53:40 But it doesn't pay for any people.
13:53:42 So in order to staff those stations, we know over the
13:53:47 next five years we are going to need 54 new
13:53:50 So when I look at the budget, I just don't look at
13:53:52 what's happening today.
13:53:54 I have to look at what the obligations are and the
13:53:57 upcoming years as well.
13:53:59 So I just want you to know that we are going through
13:54:01 that process.
13:54:04 I do want you to give me your input through that
13:54:07 And you have been during the budget workshops.
13:54:09 But as of today, we don't know what that budget will
13:54:17 Unless you want me to go through that May 22nd
13:54:19 analysis where I can show you the revenues and
13:54:21 expenses, you can let me know.
13:54:23 I just had that available if you have questions.
13:54:25 >> And we'll come back to it.
13:54:28 >> Thank you, Ms. Wise, for bringing us up to date on
13:54:32 some of these issues.
13:54:38 The property tax revenue goes into what fund?
13:54:41 >> The general fund.
13:54:42 >> The general fund.
13:54:44 And from the general fund, we have -- and I have it in
13:54:48 front of me, but I wanted to put that on the record.
13:54:52 The operating fund for public safety, which includes
13:55:00 fire and police budget, and last year, I believe the
13:55:03 police department budget was 128.5 million.
13:55:07 And the fire department budget was 50 million.
13:55:11 So that's a total of $179 million.
13:55:16 So the 2% reduction really is meaningless, because
13:55:25 it's really -- who is it going to help?
13:55:27 Certainly not going to help the city.
13:55:29 Because citizens like you said, $23, for $175,000
13:55:38 millage rate, they are going to save $23.
13:55:42 And of the 225,023.45, if we can use the money just
13:55:51 for the police and fire budget.
13:55:53 And we have to use more money from the operating funds
13:55:55 top pay and to help these two funds that we are
13:56:00 talking about.
13:56:01 So I think -- if we are going to make a meaningful
13:56:07 reduction, I think at this point it's moot.
13:56:10 And I just don't understand why we are even talking
13:56:15 about this at this point.
13:56:20 If you want to make something meaningful, why don't we
13:56:22 just increase the homestead exemption to $100,000?
13:56:26 That's a meaningful -- that's meaningful.
13:56:34 So I just wanted to make those points.
13:56:36 Because we go to the budget process every year.
13:56:41 There's only about three or four of us that come to
13:56:44 the budget process every time.
13:56:45 We know what's going on in there.
13:56:47 And this to me is a little bit political as far as I'm
13:56:53 And I'll stop at that point.
13:56:55 Thank you.
13:56:57 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Thank you, Madam Chair.
13:56:58 Ms. Alvarez, since you opened the door, it's not
13:57:00 meaningless for people who are on fixed incomes.
13:57:04 It might be meaningless to some of us who stood up
13:57:06 here to be able to say we will save 30 or $40 a year.
13:57:11 But that could be the difference for a lot of people
13:57:14 between making payments and not being able to make
13:57:16 I don't think that we have any right to sit up here
13:57:19 and put ourselves in a position of all of the
13:57:21 taxpayers in our city.
13:57:23 And I don't think that we should do that.
13:57:27 Bonnie, you mentioned the date of August 3rd.
13:57:30 Is that the date that you all will formally propose
13:57:35 your budget to City Council?
13:57:36 >> Yes.
13:57:36 >> So if council is interested in a reduction, we need
13:57:43 to let you know that quickly.
13:57:45 I mean, you need to know what we're thinking, so that
13:57:48 you all can have a chance to react to that on August
13:57:51 3rd when you produce the budget.
13:57:54 >> Right.
13:57:54 And that's why we are having, of course, this
13:57:57 discussion as well as the four budget workshops that
13:58:00 you have scheduled.
13:58:00 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Right.
13:58:02 Well, you and I have spoken about not having the final
13:58:05 numbers yet from the property appraiser's office.
13:58:10 We won't know what the new ad valorem amount will be
13:58:12 for another couple of weeks, right?
13:58:14 >> Right.
13:58:15 >> I think it's safe to say that it will go up from
13:58:19 where it is now.
13:58:22 So we are not going to be in a position of going
13:58:25 We all pretty much realize that just based on the
13:58:28 development and the good things we see that are
13:58:31 happening here.
13:58:34 Just my own thoughts on this.
13:58:36 The things that you talked about, increased insurance
13:58:40 cost, and fuel prices, and all of those things that
13:58:43 are causing us concern from the city's perspective,
13:58:47 are causing the 300,000 people to live here the same
13:58:51 And those folks may not be able to react quite as
13:58:57 easily as we can to those sorts of budget crunches.
13:59:01 And I think that we all have to keep in mind that the
13:59:05 same sort of pressures that are on us as a city are on
13:59:08 everybody that lives here in the city.
13:59:10 And when we talk about a difference of only $20 a year
13:59:15 or $40 a year, if you're a small business owner and
13:59:19 you own a building somewhere, it could be in the
13:59:21 difference of thousands of dollars per year.
13:59:22 And that might be the difference between whether or
13:59:24 not you're able to offer benefits some to your
13:59:28 employees, or hire additional staff.
13:59:32 We cannot sit here in judgment of everyone else's
13:59:36 financial situation, and supposed to know what is
13:59:40 meaningful or not meaningful to them.
13:59:42 And what I for one am fully prepared at this point to
13:59:48 ask the administration to propose a budget to us that
13:59:52 contains this 2% reduction.
13:59:54 Now, if my colleagues are not comfortable with taking
13:59:57 that position yet, and we want to wait for a couple
14:00:00 weeks to see what those numbers are, I'm all right
14:00:02 with that.
14:00:03 But I think that we need to let you know what we are
14:00:06 thinking as quickly as we can so that we'll have the
14:00:09 opportunity to sit down with the administration in the
14:00:12 course of the next month and hammer out some ideas.
14:00:17 We shouldn't be immune from having to make some
14:00:20 difficult decisions on our own.
14:00:21 We shouldn't just say, we want you to cut the budget,
14:00:24 you figure out how to do it.
14:00:25 We need to be part of the solution and not part of the
14:00:32 And I'm willing to do that.
14:00:33 I think council should be willing to step up and share
14:00:36 some of the belt tightening as well if we need to.
14:00:38 I think there are ways that we can look at this
14:00:40 budget, where we can make these cuts, and you won't
14:00:43 even notice that the cuts were made.
14:00:45 And I appreciate your job, Ms. Wise, and that is to
14:00:50 look out for the benefit and the well-being of the
14:00:52 This municipal corporation, City of Tampa.
14:00:55 But it's our jobs to look out for the 3, 000,000
14:00:58 people that live here.
14:00:59 And I'm getting great feedback about this idea.
14:01:04 I just wanted to share that with you.
14:01:06 And I'll defer to some of my other colleagues to think
14:01:08 what they are thinking on this as well.
14:01:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think it is up to us as council
14:01:13 members to represent our constituents in making wise
14:01:19 financial decisions on their behalf.
14:01:21 And I want to share with council members some feedback
14:01:23 that I received.
14:01:24 Believe we all did that went to all City Council
14:01:27 members, from Kathleen Watson.
14:01:30 It says: I absolutely do not support the proposal to
14:01:33 reduce city property taxes.
14:01:35 A mere $17 reduction on my tax liability would not be
14:01:38 meaningful if it translates into a reduction of city
14:01:43 services which are already stretched beyond our
14:01:45 Get real, folks.
14:01:46 You get what you pay for.
14:01:50 Those of you are running for office, get off your
14:01:52 political bandwagon.
14:01:53 The fact that city taxes have not been raised in 17
14:01:57 years should be an eye opener.
14:01:58 If my salary had not increased in 17 years, I would be
14:02:01 living on the streets.
14:02:03 Similarly the fact that city taxes have not increased
14:02:05 does not mean the government has become so much more
14:02:08 It means you are trying to squeeze blood out of a
14:02:11 I would fully support an increase in taxes if it means
14:02:15 that vital services would be improved.
14:02:17 And don't get me started on the subject of stormwater.
14:02:20 Do the math.
14:02:23 At our previous budget meetings which I attended, we
14:02:26 had an in-depth presentation by Mr. Daignault's
14:02:30 Our pipes you are old and need replacement.
14:02:33 It's very expensive.
14:02:35 We have so many services that we need to provide,
14:02:39 basic services to our citizens, that are increasingly
14:02:41 expensive to provide.
14:02:45 The chemicals for the water are more expensive. The
14:02:47 fuel for the garbage trucks.
14:02:49 We have very creative department heads who are doing
14:02:51 their absolute dead level best to create efficiencies
14:02:54 in their department and they are doing marvelous work.
14:02:59 But as she says in this letter, you can only do so
14:03:01 much with limited dollars.
14:03:03 I truly believe that to do something that is very
14:03:09 small would be a disservice in terms of providing the
14:03:12 quality of city services that our citizens demand.
14:03:16 Thank you.
14:03:18 >>ROSE FERLITA: Thank you.
14:03:19 I think each of us have received many e-mails with
14:03:22 regard to this subject.
14:03:23 And each of us can pick whatever one we want to cite,
14:03:28 just as Mrs. Saul-Sena picked that one on that side I
14:03:30 could pick another one that says, I make 70,000 a
14:03:33 year, a single person, with no debt and excellent
14:03:36 credit rating and still cannot afford to buy a home
14:03:38 because of taxes and insurance, et cetera.
14:03:40 That's from Debra Cobrits.
14:03:43 Those are the issues.
14:03:44 Yes, we talked about the hardship that we have to meet
14:03:46 the needs of our community and the increasing costs.
14:03:49 Mr. Harrison made a good point.
14:03:52 So do they for people that are citizens in this
14:03:55 I think it would be a political stump if we just said,
14:03:59 you guys give people refunds back and you're on your
14:04:03 It will be incumbent upon us, give them the
14:04:06 information in a timely fashion to do some homework,
14:04:11 not just some homework, a lot of homework.
14:04:13 Because I think when I supported this concept last
14:04:16 week or the week before I said, this is what we should
14:04:18 do, but immediately I qualified that and said, but not
14:04:21 to public safety,
14:04:26 Then it is incumbent upon me to do some homework to
14:04:29 show you where we can do it.
14:04:31 I have referenced some of the areas write thought we
14:04:33 were a little fat in terms of budget.
14:04:34 And that doesn't need to be singled out to death.
14:04:39 The issue is that I think it's time.
14:04:40 Last year, as we -- as I reluctantly supported the
14:04:44 budget that was presented, somebody said, no, we are
14:04:48 not increasing millage.
14:04:50 And we didn't decrease the millage.
14:04:53 And as a matter of fact, not due to Pam Iorio because
14:04:56 she's not been in office here for 17 years, but that
14:04:58 millage rate was cut back last time I think
14:05:00 approximately 17 years ago.
14:05:01 So there's something that needs to be adjusted.
14:05:04 Last year wasn't good.
14:05:06 This year, economics-wise things are strapped.
14:05:10 Next year it's going to be worse.
14:05:11 We have to make a statement and we have to come up
14:05:13 with a solution in addition to our suggestion.
14:05:16 Some of the things that I jotted down then and I'm
14:05:19 jotting down now and I intend to elaborate when we've
14:05:22 the opportunity to look at specific figures, the
14:05:24 millage rate has not been cut back.
14:05:26 We are experience ago robust increase in tax revenue.
14:05:30 CIT tax. This administration and last administration
14:05:33 gets benefit from that additional source of revenue
14:05:36 that past administrations didn't have, and that's a
14:05:38 terrific revenue source.
14:05:40 We didn't have any problem with how it was allocated.
14:05:43 More gas tax revenue.
14:05:44 And another source of revenue.
14:05:46 I think some if not all of the fees and increases that
14:05:49 we experienced last year, which I didn't support,
14:05:51 increases in rates and solid waste parking, water,
14:05:55 stormwater utility tax has doubled, those are all
14:05:58 things that come to us as revenue.
14:06:00 I just truly believe that we have to look at different
14:06:04 sources that maybe not as painful for us as a city
14:06:07 government as it will be for the individual citizens.
14:06:11 And we have to look at ways to cut back our costs and
14:06:14 expenses, and at the same time not jeopardize
14:06:18 We talk about, well, now, this is all that it's going
14:06:21 to give them and what's $26 or $23?
14:06:24 That's not the case, straight across.
14:06:26 I mean, we are talking about people that are
14:06:28 homesteaded properties.
14:06:29 That's fine.
14:06:32 All renters do is keep paying rent and paying more
14:06:34 rent and paying more rent because the owners have
14:06:36 chosen rental property, pass along the increase of
14:06:40 those taxes on their property.
14:06:41 The renter gets strapped with that burden.
14:06:44 There's no benefit to them in terms of 3% tax and as
14:06:48 this lady referenced she would probably not like to be
14:06:50 in that category but can't afford it because of rising
14:06:53 cost and that costs continues.
14:06:54 Nobody anticipates the extensive cost in insurance
14:06:58 rates, et cetera, et cetera.
14:06:59 Again go down next year.
14:07:01 We never get complaints from people about, gosh, we
14:07:03 are paying city less money for services, can you help
14:07:06 me, rose?
14:07:07 Never going to get that,
14:07:11 I think this is a time to look at this.
14:07:13 We look at this general revenue chart that Mr. Stefan
14:07:18 provided and to fiscal year budget there's a 32%
14:07:25 increase in revenue.
14:07:26 I submit to you that most peoples incomes and salaries
14:07:31 have not gone up 32% to go up the amount that we are
14:07:38 The county.
14:07:39 We have talked about comparisons to the county this
14:07:45 morning at CRA.
14:07:45 The county has lowered the property tax.
14:07:48 In 02 it was 7.6522.
14:07:51 The recommended 07 is going to be 0659.
14:07:56 The municipal service tax unit is 5.1923.
14:07:59 The city property tax is 6.539.
14:08:04 City rates as I said has not increased but taxes have
14:08:07 gone up.
14:08:08 The millage rate has not been cut for 17 years.
14:08:13 We are collecting 32% of the additional revenue.
14:08:17 Compare things that just simply put people that are
14:08:20 Let's not ignore the rest of the people.
14:08:24 Renters pay increase.
14:08:25 Businesses have no cap.
14:08:26 Oh, my gosh.
14:08:28 You should share in the opportunity that I have to be
14:08:30 a small business owner.
14:08:32 There's no 3% protection for me.
14:08:41 >> I cannot afford to as much as is I love to offer my
14:08:43 employees insurance benefits because I just can't.
14:08:47 It gets worse and worse and worse.
14:08:49 And it's not going to get any better.
14:08:51 And I'm not saying that it's easy and you guys have
14:08:54 some secret pot of money that you can just relinquish
14:08:58 to our citizens but it's time we share in the
14:09:00 financial handicaps that I see people experiencing.
14:09:03 Last week in the business section they talked about
14:09:04 the percentages of people whose electrical power has
14:09:09 been turned off because of lack of payment.
14:09:18 It is time for to us determine not what we think they
14:09:20 should absorb but what we feel they should absorb as
14:09:26 their representatives.
14:09:26 I think the time has come, and in closing, it was the
14:09:30 If I said, Bonnie go, find some money and come back
14:09:32 and tell us how wonderful this is.
14:09:36 Go look at this.
14:09:38 See where it is the least painful as opposed to very
14:09:40 painful to the constituents, see where it is least
14:09:43 painful to do some cutting back.
14:09:45 And that is our charge.
14:09:47 That is the administration's charge.
14:09:48 And it is this council's charge between now and the
14:09:54 trim time.
14:09:55 And do it earlier than later.
14:09:57 I understand we typically send that in about a week
14:09:59 before it's due.
14:09:59 And we could go back and reduce it.
14:10:01 We can't increase it.
14:10:02 But at the same time, it would be less
14:10:05 counterproductive if we find ways to suggest to you
14:10:08 about how we can cut back a little bit.
14:10:10 But we think a little bit is a lot to a bunch of
14:10:14 I had a Lott lady, so help me God, that called me last
14:10:16 week that moved out of the city and came back to the
14:10:19 She called me on the phone.
14:10:20 She hated to call me at the store but Della said it
14:10:23 was okay and it absolutely was.
14:10:24 She was crying because she said, the city is
14:10:26 experiencing all this additional revenue from what the
14:10:30 developers are doing around my little baby house, she
14:10:33 said, and my husband and I are elderly and trying to
14:10:36 struggle because we came back to the city because we
14:10:38 want to stay here, and we can't afford to pay our
14:10:42 I'm sorry.
14:10:45 What is to somebody else as a little bit of relief is
14:10:48 a lot of hopeful relief in terms of what we can give
14:10:53 our citizens.
14:10:53 I think we need to look at this long and hard.
14:10:55 I don't think today is about you giving us suggestions
14:11:00 telling us know and us telling you absolutely yet yes.
14:11:03 But at the time that it's important -- and Bonnie, you
14:11:06 have a job, too. It's tough, too.
14:11:08 And I don't envy you.
14:11:09 You have to justify to us that you need those dollars,
14:11:13 as much as you need to continue to make this
14:11:16 administration solvent.
14:11:20 But we have a harder strapped responsibility to tell
14:11:22 people when we see them on the street that we know
14:11:24 they are struggling, we are trying to do the best we
14:11:26 And even if it's a little bit versus a lot, versus
14:11:29 nothing, all of a sudden, the little bit is magnified
14:11:33 in terms of appreciation to the people that we
14:11:35 That's our charge.
14:11:36 You have your own.
14:11:37 And hopefully we'll come together as adults and have a
14:11:40 mature discussion, once we are actually looking at the
14:11:42 So I appreciate your listening to us vent about the
14:11:46 problems that we have, because our constituents are
14:11:48 sharing theirs with us.
14:11:50 Thank you.
14:11:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
14:11:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Bonnie, you gave a number to us on
14:11:57 one of these pieces of paper that uses the $200,000
14:12:02 assessed home value.
14:12:13 Many of my constituents have homes of 100,000 or less
14:12:16 because they are modest homes to start with and locked
14:12:18 in under the save our homes program.
14:12:19 So do you have a sense of what the average -- what the
14:12:22 average home in the city is assessed at?
14:12:25 Or the median or whatever the appropriate factor would
14:12:32 Or Jim?
14:12:32 >>JIM STEFAN: Yes, we can get you that.
14:12:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Before we come bay would like to
14:12:39 see that.
14:12:39 Because let's say argument sake, if the median home
14:12:42 in this city is $100,000 assessed value, then what we
14:12:45 are talking about is 10 or $11 of property tax
14:12:50 That's number one.
14:12:56 Number two, I don't have a problem with continuing
14:12:58 this discussion.
14:12:58 I think it's a healthy discussion.
14:13:00 I think it's a discussion that we should have every
14:13:02 year when it comes to budget.
14:13:04 Because we should always try and keep our taxes as low
14:13:07 as possible, as low as feasible and as low as -- in a
14:13:13 responsible fashion.
14:13:16 But the mayor has been talking about something that is
14:13:19 a very, very important.
14:13:21 As we come into hurricane season, and as we see the
14:13:26 tragedies that have happened in other states and in
14:13:27 other parts of the state, we have to recognize that so
14:13:30 far, knock on wood, we have been extremely lucky.
14:13:34 We have been extremely lucky.
14:13:36 And now we are almost running without any insurance at
14:13:41 all because $30 million to cover a billion or more
14:13:45 dollars of city assets including the convention center
14:13:48 that's rate on the right, and so many other access
14:13:53 right on the water including this building probably,
14:13:56 if we have a major storm surge, event, God forbid, we
14:14:02 wouldn't be covered for insurancewise.
14:14:04 So my point is, is one of the things we have to take
14:14:08 into factor -- and I give the mayor credit for this --
14:14:11 is we have to save for a rainy day, literally.
14:14:14 We have to build our reserves for a hurricane
14:14:17 contingency fund.
14:14:18 And if we have extra money, then maybe that's where
14:14:21 that money needs to go.
14:14:22 And that's some soul searching that we have to tap
14:14:25 very seriously.
14:14:26 But I'm okay with continuing the discussion.
14:14:28 And what I would like to see you -- come back with as
14:14:31 we go through the budget process over the next month
14:14:33 or two, is I would like you to give us the laundry
14:14:37 list of discretionary items that might make up the $3
14:14:43 million that Mr. Harrison and Ms. Ferlita apparently
14:14:47 are advocating.
14:14:48 You know, identified, does that mean cutting back the
14:14:52 hours on this park or all parks?
14:14:55 Because we don't have enough staff?
14:14:57 Does it mean that we might have to address having the
14:15:01 fire stations be one or two fire persons short?
14:15:07 Specifically, line item, what $3 million equates to in
14:15:11 terms of any discretion that we might have.
14:15:14 If there's discretion out there, and if we can do all
14:15:17 of this responsibly, and still create a hurricane
14:15:20 contingency fund that we need, and do everything else
14:15:22 that we believe are important, then, yes, it's
14:15:25 something that we should look at.
14:15:27 We cannot go through this process irresponsibly, pull
14:15:30 a number out of thin air, and just say, this is the
14:15:33 way it's going to be.
14:15:35 That's not responsible government.
14:15:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I can't see spending the time when
14:15:53 we have unmet needs.
14:15:55 We are always trying to figure out where to get a
14:15:57 little bit more money to meet the laundry list of
14:16:00 things that they feel that truly need that we can't
14:16:02 fund in our regular budget.
14:16:04 So given that we already have this huge list of things
14:16:07 that aren't funded, I can't see that it makes sense to
14:16:09 go back to the things that made it to the funded
14:16:12 category, and think of what things to cut out.
14:16:14 I think that's counterintuitive and I can't see
14:16:23 spending staff's time.
14:16:24 I think each has the ability to attend these hearings
14:16:26 which are available -- and all council members are
14:16:29 invited, and look over what the different departments
14:16:32 say they are funding and things they would like to
14:16:34 have that aren't funded and do our own calculus on
14:16:48 >>MARY ALVAREZ: The increases that we were making in
14:16:50 the wastewater, water, and all these other things,
14:16:53 that we did increase, those were for enterprise funds.
14:16:56 That went directly into the enterprise funds.
14:17:00 Nothing into the tax operating funds.
14:17:02 Tax operating funds include property taxes, franchise
14:17:05 fees, sales tax and communications service taxes as
14:17:08 well as other sources.
14:17:10 Has nothing to do with the stormwater, the water, and
14:17:12 all these other things that we have had to do in order
14:17:14 to put in a new stormwater system, sewers are
14:17:20 breaking, and we all know that we are having this
14:17:22 problem, flooding all over the place.
14:17:24 That's what those increases were for.
14:17:26 And to say that we are increasing because we are
14:17:30 putting it into the tax operating fund or for anything
14:17:33 else, that's just wrong.
14:17:35 Those were enterprise funds.
14:17:37 You do not pay your police and fire, your public
14:17:40 safety and all these other things because of your
14:17:42 enterprise funds.
14:17:45 >>SHAWN HARRISON: It's all a matter of perspective.
14:17:48 Mr. Dingfelder used a good word and that is
14:17:51 We would have come up with this idea, let's slash
14:17:54 taxes by 20%.
14:17:55 That's irresponsible.
14:17:57 Let's do it by 5%.
14:17:59 That's irresponsible.
14:18:00 I propose something that is 2% that is -- you may say
14:18:05 it's meaningless.
14:18:06 But the more meaningful we get the less reality it is.
14:18:10 We can't expect to cut $10 million out of this year's
14:18:14 But if we start here, and we make some progress over
14:18:17 the next -- let's say that we are able to knock it
14:18:20 down another 1 percent every year for the next ten
14:18:25 years, we have just dropped the millage by 11% that.
14:18:28 Is substantial.
14:18:28 That is meaningful.
14:18:30 And for my colleagues with all due respect to suggest
14:18:36 we can't spend a little more time talking about this
14:18:38 when we spend hour upon hour talking about protecting
14:18:41 trees, and code enforcement and all the other things
14:18:46 that we talk about that are important issues, we
14:18:50 should be talking about that, but when is the last
14:18:53 time we ever -- we ever, this board, ever spoke about
14:18:56 reducing taxes?
14:18:57 It hasn't happened in my seven years.
14:19:03 We spent an hour take da talking about minimum flows
14:19:07 in the Hillsborough River.
14:19:08 That's an important discussion.
14:19:09 But this is also an important discussion.
14:19:10 We cannot sit up here and judge what is important to
14:19:13 the 300,000 people that live in our community.
14:19:19 And I think it's arrogant for to us do so.
14:19:22 Of the e-mails we have gotten that says we want you to
14:19:24 raise our taxes because you are not doing enough, we
14:19:26 are getting hundreds of communications from people
14:19:28 that say we want you to do this, please help out.
14:19:32 So Madam Chair, what I would like to do is continue
14:19:35 this discussion for three weeks, we will give Ms. Wise
14:19:38 an opportunity to get the numbers from the property
14:19:40 appraiser's office.
14:19:41 Mr. Dingfelder made some suggestions about taking some
14:19:45 preliminary looks at where we might make some cuts.
14:19:48 And at that point we'll be able to make a reasoned
14:19:51 decision and hopefully at that point have some
14:19:53 feedback from the mayor as well.
14:19:54 >>ROSE FERLITA: Is that a motion?
14:19:57 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Yes, it is.
14:19:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Question on the motion.
14:19:59 >>THE CLERK: Madam Chair, three weeks would be July
14:20:06 Would you have to carry over to July 13th.
14:20:08 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Oh, goodie.
14:20:11 >>SHAWN HARRISON: That will be our first meeting back
14:20:13 from the break?
14:20:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I would like to make a friendly
14:20:16 amendment to help me be supportive of your motion.
14:20:20 I think these are the types of discussions that would
14:20:26 be appropriate during our budget workshops and our
14:20:31 budget presentations.
14:20:33 I think that when we come to some conclusions or
14:20:37 something like that, then perhaps it would be
14:20:41 appropriate to do it during our regular board meeting.
14:20:43 But these might be lengthy discussions.
14:20:45 They will be lengthy discussions undoubtedly.
14:20:47 And I think our budget workshops are more appropriate.
14:20:50 But I can support the motion --
14:20:55 >> The budget workshop?
14:20:56 Okay, I'll agree with that.
14:20:57 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Let me explain my thinking.
14:21:00 I think it's important for the council to say "yes" or
14:21:01 "no," this is what we want to have done.
14:21:04 And I don't think during the budget meetings when we
14:21:07 are not in session, I think it's a good time for to us
14:21:13 talk about it but at some point we are going to have
14:21:15 to say to the mayor, we agree with this or we don't
14:21:17 agree with it, and we would like you to propose a
14:21:21 budget that either makes these changes or whatever
14:21:23 budget you want.
14:21:24 And I want to do that in sufficiently advance of the
14:21:28 August 3rd date so that we can -- not surprise
14:21:33 So I'm not sure how we go about that.
14:21:35 But obviously the longer we wait, the less chance
14:21:43 there is of trying to come together with something.
14:21:45 >>BONNIE WISE: From my perspective it's easier to sit
14:21:47 down in a budget workshop and point to numbers and
14:21:50 point to things that are in your book and really give
14:21:52 you specific examples.
14:21:54 As you know, this is an ongoing process.
14:21:57 And hopefully that what you all tell us at budget
14:22:02 workshops and through the process we do hear you, we
14:22:06 do incorporate them into the budget.
14:22:07 So whether it happens formally at a council meeting,
14:22:10 or individually or at a workshop, I listen, we hear
14:22:15 you, and we try to incorporate that in the budget.
14:22:18 >>SHAWN HARRISON: But Bonnie, how will we -- how will
14:22:22 we get on the record with this that this is something
14:22:25 the four of us agree with or four of us don't agree
14:22:28 If four doesn't agree who cares?
14:22:30 It's just an academic discussion about philosophy.
14:22:32 But if four of us do agree, then I think that requires
14:22:37 some reaction from the administration.
14:22:39 >>BONNIE WISE: I think it's incumbent upon me to
14:22:43 really give you the full picture.
14:22:44 I need to give you the full picture of property taxes.
14:22:48 As you mentioned, we don't have final numbers and we
14:22:50 don't get those till July 1st.
14:22:52 We don't have the full picture on all the other
14:22:54 revenue sources.
14:22:55 We don't yet have -- we are developing the full
14:22:58 picture on all the other departments what they have
14:23:01 So I'm not really sure how you can make a decision
14:23:04 without going through that full analysis so that you
14:23:08 understand all the ramifications of any discussion
14:23:10 that you would make.
14:23:11 And I think through that, this budget workshop is
14:23:14 where you would have the opportunity to hear all that
14:23:18 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Madam Chair, we have a motion on the
14:23:20 We have a second.
14:23:21 Continue for three weeks.
14:23:21 >>ROSE FERLITA: Mr. Harrison, I don't want to
14:23:28 interrupt you.
14:23:28 I'm certainly supportive of it.
14:23:30 And your suggestion about discussing it at the
14:23:32 workshop -- Bonnie, correct me if I am wrong but
14:23:34 that's not televised? It's not tell advice bud it's
14:23:39 >> How many people come to our conference when we are
14:23:41 in some conference across the room?
14:23:44 If you have got somebody listening to us, they can
14:23:46 either support or not support what we are discussing.
14:23:48 And that gives us a very objective idea whether you're
14:23:52 off track or, Mr. Harrison, that's not correct, or Ms.
14:23:56 Alvarez, I agree with you.
14:23:57 So I think that's the right media to do it in.
14:24:00 So I'm not comfortable discussing this -- discounting
14:24:07 discussing this at a council meeting.
14:24:08 Some of us can come to a budget meeting.
14:24:11 That means the possibility of most of us being in
14:24:13 attendance at this very important discussion, I would
14:24:17 think that at a council meeting, that's when you would
14:24:19 have the most attending of my colleagues and Mace or
14:24:22 whoever else wants to attend.
14:24:24 So I think Mr. Harrison's issue is correct.
14:24:27 I think that's the place to discuss it.
14:24:29 And, you know, in all fairness I think we are going to
14:24:32 interact as adults.
14:24:33 As adults that both represent the city.
14:24:35 In an administrative capacity and in an elected
14:24:38 official capacity.
14:24:39 And I think if we have that conversation one on one,
14:24:42 right here, for people to listen to, then I think the
14:24:48 budgeting process in terms of discussing at those
14:24:51 workshops really minimizes the input and as well.
14:24:54 A some of us think some is more important, some of us
14:24:59 can't come to the others and I think sometimes it's
14:25:01 absolutely very healthy for one council member to say
14:25:03 something, and you go, you know what?
14:25:05 That's right.
14:25:05 I think you're right, Mr. Dingfelder, but let me add
14:25:08 Or Ms. Saul-Sena, I disagree with you.
14:25:10 So you have more dialogue.
14:25:11 And this is what this is about.
14:25:13 A once a year dialogue about what happens in terms of
14:25:17 the budget that the citizens of this city have to
14:25:22 So just wanted to have it on record.
14:25:24 I'm certainly supportive of the motion.
14:25:26 See where it goes from there.
14:25:28 Another thing, too.
14:25:29 And I don't know if this is appropriate.
14:25:30 I know that we have some statute issues, Mr. Shelby.
14:25:36 And depending on who votes where here, Mr. White is
14:25:42 here so I think it's very important that he should
14:25:44 weigh in on this so I won't have to refer to this.
14:25:48 Never mind.
14:25:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
14:25:52 Then your motion.
14:25:52 >>SHAWN HARRISON: We will consider it also during the
14:25:56 budget hearings, right?
14:25:57 I mean, you weren't waiving the three-week continuance
14:25:59 to talk about it at that point, were you?
14:26:05 >>> I was --
14:26:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I was trying to figure out a
14:26:08 specific budget workshop where we could discuss it.
14:26:11 And then maybe if there was work continue -- worth
14:26:15 continuing to discuss it in council then there could
14:26:18 still be time to discuss in the council.
14:26:20 So maybe there's ground for both of those options.
14:26:32 You what was the date you proposed?
14:26:35 >>SHAWN HARRISON: July 13th.
14:26:36 At least by that time we'll know what the new
14:26:38 ad valorem numbers will be.
14:26:39 I don't think we can make a reasonable decision until
14:26:41 that, at least July 1st.
14:26:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: May I just suggest a combination,
14:26:50 give Bonnie a little more time?
14:26:51 Just doing the normal budget process is a huge
14:26:54 undertaking for Jim and Bonnie and their staffs.
14:26:58 So we are scheduled, Mr. White, with the 17th for
14:27:01 the budget workshop on the Monday.
14:27:03 And then the following Thursday would be the 20th.
14:27:08 We could at least put it on the calendar if you wanted
14:27:10 to continue.
14:27:12 The 17th is a Monday.
14:27:13 Budget workshop.
14:27:18 The 17th.
14:27:25 >> Go through everything on a budget workshop?
14:27:26 >> That's what I'm saying.
14:27:28 Saying the 17th to discuss it.
14:27:30 And then more elaborate fashion during the budget
14:27:36 Then put it on the calendar for the 20th.
14:27:39 And maybe if council wants to talk about it further.
14:27:41 It will be there for the 20th.
14:27:45 >> So we will talk about it on the 17th and then
14:27:47 be on the council agenda for the 20th.
14:27:51 I'm fine with that.
14:27:56 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I'm not going to support anything.
14:27:58 I think we are talking pennies here.
14:28:00 We are talking even 23 or $40.
14:28:04 That's less than 2 or $3 a month that we are trying to
14:28:06 save the citizens.
14:28:08 If we were going to talk something meaningful, let's
14:28:10 do it a lot more than that.
14:28:12 I can't support that.
14:28:13 We have gone through this once before.
14:28:17 A week ago when we brought this up and now it's --
14:28:21 it's just not a good time to do that.
14:28:23 We are all experiencing increased costs.
14:28:27 And it's not just the city.
14:28:29 It's everybody.
14:28:30 And I understand that.
14:28:31 But to give somebody -- in my case -- and I have my
14:28:40 taxes in front of me. I only save.
14:28:42 >> A year.
14:28:43 Big deal.
14:28:44 I'm donate that to the city if it had to come to that.
14:28:47 It's just ridiculous.
14:28:49 So I won't support that motion, any motion.
14:28:53 >>ROSE FERLITA: Ms. Miller, I don't really, with all
14:28:57 due respect to my friend and doll league Mrs. Alvarez,
14:28:59 what we have got as a little bit may not be the same
14:29:01 issue for people that come to my store and they pay
14:29:05 their bills or they get their medicine.
14:29:06 So everybody's issue is different and you're right.
14:29:09 It's bad now.
14:29:09 It's not going to get any better and that's exactly
14:29:12 the reason we are having these discussions.
14:29:14 Now, two things.
14:29:15 Mr. Harrison, just because Mr. White walked in late, I
14:29:18 want wonder if you wouldn't mind repeating or
14:29:20 restating your motion, in addition to which I have a
14:29:22 question, with the additional friendly amendment or
14:29:25 suggest from Mr. Dingfelder.
14:29:27 For instance, I don't even know, I don't have my
14:29:30 calendar in front of me.
14:29:31 If I, for instance, or somebody here, for instance, is
14:29:34 not available on the 17th, that will not preclude
14:29:37 us or limit us from bringing up the discussion that we
14:29:39 want on the budget.
14:29:40 Is that correct?
14:29:40 And I'm sorry.
14:29:41 Roll your eyes all you want.
14:29:42 But I just want to have an opportunity as fair as
14:29:46 county be regardless of outcome to discuss it
14:29:48 hopefully on the 17th and at council again.
14:29:50 But at least at council.
14:29:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The motion is as friendly as it
14:29:56 could be which is to put it on the calendar for the
14:29:59 20thth, the clerk will put it on the calendar.
14:30:02 If there's something to discuss at that point, if not
14:30:08 we won't.
14:30:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder, you will see if she can
14:30:14 cut the water department or fire department.
14:30:16 I don't want to take away from those departments.
14:30:20 I saw a lady saying no wake zone, she had so much
14:30:23 water, she had a sign that said no wake zone.
14:30:26 You know how we need to repair our water situation.
14:30:31 I can't see money taking from that.
14:30:32 It's going to hurt the citizens either way you go.
14:30:39 I just can't agree with that.
14:30:41 Because I know I want things good for the city.
14:30:43 We have been working on the city trying to make it
14:30:45 better for a long time.
14:30:46 And now we are going to take money away from the city?
14:30:50 And we'll be putting money in the pocket trying to
14:30:53 help them but hurting them another way.
14:30:55 I don't see how it's going to help.
14:30:57 So I won't be supporting it either.
14:30:59 Mr. White.
14:31:00 >>KEVIN WHITE: I want some clarification on the
14:31:03 What was the motion, to put -- I know we have a budget
14:31:06 workshop on the 17th.
14:31:07 So what are we -- what was the motion of what we are
14:31:11 going to be discussing for that day?
14:31:13 And I apologize for being tardy.
14:31:19 >>SHAWN HARRISON: We had suggested we will discuss
14:31:20 this at the July 17th budget workshop which is the
14:31:25 same workshop and we'll have some numbers.
14:31:27 We can talk about some theory, if we want to talk
14:31:30 about that, whoever shows up can show up.
14:31:32 But it will be an agendaed item on the 20th, where
14:31:37 hopefully some action will take place.
14:31:39 So that's all we are doing at this point.
14:31:41 And Madam Chair, let me just respond.
14:31:44 No one is suggesting that we are going to cut fire or
14:31:49 police or public safety.
14:31:50 If you're making your decision based on that, then
14:31:54 don't make it based on that, because no one is going
14:31:56 to support that we cut public safety here.
14:32:00 I think what you are saying you come up with some
14:32:03 ideas and I don't think bony her right mind would say
14:32:06 let's cut fire or police.
14:32:07 So don't make it based on that.
14:32:10 >>KEVIN WHITE: Have we put anything else on the agenda
14:32:13 for any other public -- any other workshop that we
14:32:15 have had to date from the budget workshops?
14:32:20 Or even in the past?
14:32:22 >>GWEN MILLER: No, we haven't.
14:32:24 >>KEVIN WHITE: And --
14:32:26 >>CHAIRMAN: This is the first time.
14:32:28 >>KEVIN WHITE: What was the issue with the -- put
14:32:33 something on this particular agenda for the 20th
14:32:37 that is going to be discussed on the 17th.
14:32:40 That we have had a couple of budget workshops already,
14:32:43 but we haven't put any of those items directly on our
14:32:46 calendar for immediate discussion.
14:32:49 We don't normally do that until the end of the budget
14:32:53 And maybe I missed something.
14:32:54 >>SHAWN HARRISON: The rationale is because on August
14:32:58 3rd we have to set the trim that. Is when we have
14:33:01 to say 6.4 or 6.39 or whatever it was.
14:33:04 And we want there to be sufficient time before that
14:33:07 happens if the will of the council is to say we want a
14:33:10 reduction, we want the administration to be able to
14:33:14 react to that in sufficient tame before that August
14:33:17 3rd meeting.
14:33:18 I don't want to spring it on anyone on August 3rd
14:33:20 to say, this is what we want, and no one has had a
14:33:23 chance to think about that.
14:33:24 >>KEVIN WHITE: I understand.
14:33:27 I just think in the past, and maybe some of you other
14:33:32 colleagues of mine that come to some of the other
14:33:36 budget workshops, I think when we make our, say,
14:33:42 demand, or our considerations known to the
14:33:45 administration, I think definitely, I don't think it
14:33:49 falls on deaf ears and it definitely goes back to the
14:33:54 couple more budget workshops after that.
14:33:56 And if it's not, if we are not getting any type of
14:33:59 consideration, Mr. Harrison, I'm banking with the
14:34:04 motion, I'm just saying I don't know at what point of
14:34:08 time are you talking about, from our standpoint or
14:34:10 from the public input, public input standpoint?
14:34:13 Or we very rarely have any members from the public at
14:34:17 all other than department heads, even though these
14:34:20 meetings are publicly noticed, and we have never had
14:34:24 any public input, any time this season, or last
14:34:29 So I think if it is an important enough issue that we
14:34:33 send a loud and clear mess annal to administration via
14:34:39 the staff that is representative at that meeting I'm
14:34:44 sure they will be able to get back with us in a timely
14:34:47 In F not I think we can make it an agendaed item for
14:34:49 that next week's meeting or whatever you feel that you
14:34:51 are not getting the responsiveness, or just help me
14:34:57 out with the rationale.
14:34:58 I would be happy to help anyway I can.
14:35:01 I want to help.
14:35:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Mrs. Saul-Sena.
14:35:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I will not be supporting the
14:35:08 >>ROSE FERLITA: Madam Chairman, each of us obviously
14:35:12 have our own opinions about everything and I think
14:35:14 typically we are a collegial body that it doesn't mean
14:35:17 we are taking a position but just giving the people
14:35:19 who want an opportunity to discuss something, give
14:35:21 them that opportunity.
14:35:23 We usually do that.
14:35:23 So I have to tell you, not bilge recently, I'm de very
14:35:28 disappointed my chairman is not going to give us the
14:35:30 opportunity to talk about it.
14:35:31 We may not make any reductions.
14:35:33 But I think Mr. Harrison and I are asking this council
14:35:36 as a body to afford us the opportunity to look at it.
14:35:40 In addition to which, I have already stated that
14:35:41 although Mr. White is was not here, Kevin, sometimes
14:35:46 it's difficult for to us get to some of those
14:35:48 So I think the place that you can anticipate -- not
14:35:52 that we don't have to have a preliminary discussion or
14:35:54 we shouldn't have these workshops.
14:35:56 But these even our work schedules, that's what Shawn
14:35:59 is saying but let's have it far back on the 20th.
14:36:02 Mr. Harrison, you said you don't want to surprise
14:36:04 anybody in terms of staff.
14:36:07 In order to discuss it on the 20th I had another
14:36:09 concern while you were making those fair comments.
14:36:12 The trim notices I believe are due on the 4th.
14:36:15 Typically sometimes the administration will send it in
14:36:18 Be that as it may, both of us might have the schedule
14:36:23 when the trimmings would be submitted.
14:36:25 Talk about surprises, and having the information in
14:36:27 front of you to discuss it, review it and make a
14:36:32 conscientious decision about what we can and can't do.
14:36:35 When do we get the actual remaining data and
14:36:38 information on the budget?
14:36:39 Is that like on the 1st, on the 2nd or
14:36:42 something? Ways wise provide information on property
14:36:48 taxes by July 1st.
14:36:50 >> When do we get a big book from you?
14:36:52 >>> You already received it.
14:36:53 >> No, don't we usually get an additional last-minute
14:36:55 book that summarizes everything?
14:36:57 We have got the book that's the dog and pony show for
14:37:01 those Monday shows.
14:37:02 But is there anything else you are going to give us
14:37:03 before the budget approval, or no?
14:37:07 >>> Actually, this year's book I got out earlier than
14:37:10 >> So everything we have now, we are going to have on
14:37:12 the 20th.
14:37:13 I don't think that's correct.
14:37:14 Mr. Shelby, you and I discussed it and you and I, I
14:37:18 think, are different opinions.
14:37:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You think your question is when is
14:37:21 the budget book itself and the line items that are
14:37:24 presented to council, when is that going to come
14:37:26 before --
14:37:28 >>ROSE FERLITA: The big book, yes.
14:37:37 That's why we have Mr. Shelby here to be able to
14:37:40 clarify my concerns and questions.
14:37:41 When will that be?
14:37:43 >>> August 3rd.
14:37:44 >> August 3rd.
14:37:46 So if we discuss this on the 20th we still don't
14:37:48 have anything in front of us to be able to discuss it
14:37:50 and maybe that's not a problem for some and it's a
14:37:52 problem for others but again I want to tell you that
14:37:55 as well as I can do my homework with the information I
14:37:57 have on the 20.
14:37:59 If that goes forward, then if it doesn't, it doesn't.
14:38:01 But still if there's something that causes some Hess
14:38:05 tense which me, then even if you submitted your trim
14:38:07 notice on the 4th, it's my understanding based on
14:38:10 statute or regulations or whatever, that further down,
14:38:13 even after the 4th, you can go back and adjust
14:38:16 fountain the millage is lower, but not higher.
14:38:18 Is that correct?
14:38:18 Is that a legal question I need to ask Mr. Shelby?
14:38:21 Is that correct, Mr. Shelby?
14:38:24 >> Council member Ferlita, I have -- done research in
14:38:32 that issue and Florida statute section 192 is called
14:38:37 the tax -- Florida taxpayers' Bill of Rights and I
14:38:42 have a copy here as I was doing the research.
14:38:44 I need to do further research and discuss with Mr.
14:38:47 Smith and as well as Ms. Stefan the scheduling and --
14:38:52 >>ROSE FERLITA: Let me make that because you are in
14:38:53 the middle of your research and I don't want to
14:38:56 comprise you by putting you on the spot.
14:38:58 I have had not one but several discussion was Pat
14:39:00 Bean, and from my recollection, she said that if it's
14:39:04 submitted, then of a the 4th you cannot increase
14:39:06 the millage but you can decrease it so that's another
14:39:09 mechanism that is a relief valve I would like to
14:39:13 And maybe you can report back to me, if you would.
14:39:16 Just to make sure that I'm not making a mistake.
14:39:18 This is all about homework.
14:39:19 This is not about me versus Mrs. Alvarez or Mr. White.
14:39:24 It's all about being comprehensive.
14:39:26 And I think in the amount of time I have been here, I
14:39:31 don't think we have spent ample time on this budget
14:39:33 and I think it's very important today -- I don't think
14:39:35 we have spent ample of time on this budget as we
14:39:38 should have.
14:39:39 And I think that the more we look at it this time the
14:39:42 This is a strapping time financially, economically for
14:39:45 a lot of people.
14:39:46 So what may not have been warranted in the past should
14:39:49 be warranted now.
14:39:50 And those are all -- I don't take that offensive.
14:39:54 You do a fine job as Finance Committee member but I'm
14:39:57 saying maybe this is a fine time -- it's nothing
14:40:00 better because it's not going to get any better in
14:40:02 terms of finance.
14:40:03 >>MARY ALVAREZ: No, you're right.
14:40:05 And that's --
14:40:06 >>ROSE FERLITA: Mr. Harrison and I -- (speaking over
14:40:10 one another)
14:40:11 I'm not finished, Mrs. Alvarez.
14:40:14 Mr. Harrison is simply giving us the opportunity to do
14:40:17 our homework and talk about it as adult
14:40:19 representatives of this city.
14:40:20 And it's more you all think that everything is good
14:40:22 and less of us think that it's not then you will win,
14:40:26 majority rules but that's the process and we all need
14:40:28 to look at it the way we want, that's all.
14:40:31 Go ahead, Mary.
14:40:32 >>MARY ALVAREZ: All right.
14:40:32 We have been to the budget hearings.
14:40:34 They start at 9:00 in the morning.
14:40:36 And sometimes we are there till 12:00 in the
14:40:39 You know, so you are saying that we need to do our
14:40:43 Excuse me, I've done my homework.
14:40:44 I go to these things.
14:40:45 >> I qualified you do a fine job as the finance
14:40:48 >> I'm not talking about prior.
14:40:50 I'm talking about the budget workshops that we have
14:40:54 Ms. Bonnie Wise and Mr. Kevin White, which is the
14:40:57 finest director this year, finance chairman this year,
14:40:59 has made an agenda for these meetings that we have to
14:41:02 go to.
14:41:04 And I don't think I want to spend another 3 hours
14:41:07 talking about something that's not going to come to
14:41:10 To me, it's not a good time to be talking about
14:41:15 I am sorry.
14:41:18 She has an agenda.
14:41:19 Mr. White approved it.
14:41:20 That's what we should be talking about.
14:41:22 Not about anything else at this time.
14:41:23 You want to bring this subject up next year, fine.
14:41:25 Do it -- or do it early in the year where everybody
14:41:29 has a chance to come in and talk about it.
14:41:30 Not in the last two months that we have before we do a
14:41:34 This is just not right.
14:41:35 I'm sorry.
14:41:36 You know, we have an overworked finance department and
14:41:40 budget department.
14:41:41 They are overworked.
14:41:42 And we are just continuing to put more pressure on
14:41:47 >>GWEN MILLER: We are going to bring this discussion
14:41:48 to a close.
14:41:49 We have a motion and second on the floor.
14:41:50 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
14:41:52 Opposed, Nay.
14:41:53 >>THE CLERK: (off microphone)
14:42:01 >>GWEN MILLER: We are going to go to Bonnie Wise.
14:42:04 We are going to let her leave and come back.
14:42:06 Number 90.
14:42:09 Bee we go to number 90.
14:42:17 We need to open it up.
14:42:18 >>MARY ALVAREZ: So moved.
14:42:20 >> And get everybody sworn in. let's open all the
14:42:22 public hearings from item 88 to 99.
14:42:29 Is anyone in the public going to speak on any of these
14:42:32 Please stand and raise your right hand.
14:42:33 >>KEVIN WHITE: Move to open all of the items.
14:42:37 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Second.
14:42:38 (Motion carried).
14:42:38 >>THE CLERK: Do you solemnly swear or affirm to tell
14:42:44 the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
14:42:47 >>CHAIRMAN: Mr. Shelby.
14:42:50 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Some housekeeping, Madam Chair,
14:42:54 I ask that all written materials, written
14:42:57 communications relative to today's hearing that have
14:42:58 been available to the public at council's office be
14:43:00 received and filed into the record at this time.
14:43:04 Motion, please.
14:43:07 >> So moved.
14:43:08 >> Second.
14:43:08 (Motion carried).
14:43:08 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Only three.
14:43:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: We have Mr. Dingfelder.
14:43:16 Receive and file the documents prior to the public
14:43:19 Thank you.
14:43:19 And secondly, if any member of City Council has any ex
14:43:23 parte verbal communication was any petitioner, his or
14:43:26 her representative or any member of the public in
14:43:28 connection with any of the petitions you are about to
14:43:30 hear today, please disclose prior to the vote the
14:43:33 identity of the person, group or entity with whom that
14:43:36 verbal communication occurred and the substance of
14:43:38 that verbal communication.
14:43:38 And please, ladies and gentlemen, a reminder with you
14:43:42 state your name please reaffirm for the record that
14:43:44 you have been sworn.
14:43:45 I am going to put up this little placard to remind you
14:43:48 it will be there and will save time.
14:43:50 Thank you.
14:43:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mrs. Saul-Sena will be right back.
14:43:58 >>BONNIE WISE: Item 90 is the second reading of the
14:44:02 business tax ordinance.
14:44:03 If I could just reiterate -- oh, I'm sorry.
14:44:08 >>MARTIN SHELBY: have you been sworn?
14:44:09 Were you sworn?
14:44:11 >>BONNIE WISE: Just in case, I better.
14:44:21 I apologize.
14:44:22 Second reading of the business tax ordinance as you
14:44:24 recall, ladies and gentlemen, this is to keep the
14:44:26 business tax at its current level, not to increase
14:44:29 I just wanted to make that perfectly clear.
14:44:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Any questions from council members?
14:44:33 Is there anyone in the public that would like to speak
14:44:36 on item 90.
14:44:40 (Motion Carried).
14:44:41 >>KEVIN WHITE: Move an ordinance -- move to document
14:44:48 an ordinance upon second reading, move an ordinance
14:44:51 repealing section 2 of ordinance 2004-161 amending
14:44:56 section 24-120, City of Tampa code, to revise
14:45:01 occupational tax amounts from business, professions to
14:45:05 remain at the current level providing for
14:45:07 severability, providing an effective date.
14:45:08 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Second.
14:45:09 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
14:45:11 Voice roll call.
14:45:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
14:45:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
14:45:14 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Yes.
14:45:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
14:45:16 >>SHAWN HARRISON: (No response)
14:45:19 >>ROSE FERLITA: (No response)
14:45:19 >>KEVIN WHITE: Yes.
14:45:20 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Harrison and Ferlita
14:45:22 being absent.
14:45:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Go back to number 88.
14:45:26 Is there anyone in the public that would like to speak
14:45:28 on 88?
14:45:29 >>KEVIN WHITE: Move to close.
14:45:30 >> Second.
14:45:30 (Motion carried).
14:45:31 >>KEVIN WHITE: Move to adopt the following ordinance
14:45:35 upon second reading, move an ordinance vacating
14:45:38 discontinuing, abandoning a certain right-of-way all
14:45:43 that alleyway abandoned by Genesee street on the
14:45:46 north, Florida Avenue on the east, Alva street on the
14:45:50 south and north Highland Avenue on the west in meadow
14:45:53 brook a subdivision located in the City of Tampa,
14:45:57 Hillsborough County Florida the same being more fully
14:45:59 described in section 2 hereof providing an effective
14:46:01 >> Second.
14:46:02 >>GWEN MILLER: Roll call vote.
14:46:03 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Harrison and Ferlita
14:46:05 being absent.
14:46:07 >> Is there anyone in the public that would like to be
14:46:08 speak on item 89?
14:46:10 >> Move to close.
14:46:11 >> Second.
14:46:11 (Motion carried).
14:46:12 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Move to adopt the following amendment,
14:46:18 an ordinance discontinuing and abandoning a certain
14:46:21 right-of-way, a portion of church Avenue lying between
14:46:23 west tax upon Avenue, west Pearl Avenue, in Gandy
14:46:28 manor, a subdivision in the City of Tampa,
14:46:29 Hillsborough County Florida the same being more fully
14:46:31 described in section 2 hereof providing an effective
14:46:34 >> I have a motion and second.
14:46:36 Voice roll call.
14:46:36 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Harrison and Ferlita
14:46:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
14:46:48 would like to speak on item 91?
14:46:51 >> Move to close.
14:46:52 >> Second.
14:46:52 (Motion carried).
14:46:52 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Move to adopt the following ordinance
14:46:58 upon second reading, an ordinance authorizing the
14:47:00 installation and maintenance of an encroachment, a
14:47:03 cantilever supported existing canopy, by royal Frank
14:47:07 LLC over a portion of the public right-of-way known as
14:47:10 North Franklin Street near the intersection of North
14:47:12 Franklin Street and Royal Street, as more particularly
14:47:15 described herein, subject to certain terms, covenants,
14:47:18 conditions and agreements, as more particularly
14:47:20 described herein, providing an effective date.
14:47:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
14:47:23 Voice roll call.
14:47:33 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Harrison and Ferlita
14:47:35 being absent.
14:47:36 >> Is there anyone in the public that would like to
14:47:38 speak on item 92?
14:47:39 >> Move to close.
14:47:40 >> Second.
14:47:40 (Motion carried).
14:47:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move an ordinance
14:47:45 upon second reading, an ordinance approving a special
14:47:48 use permit S-2 approving a church in an RM-16 zoning
14:47:52 district in the general vicinity of 2912 north CARIOCA
14:47:58 street in the city of Tampa, Florida and as more
14:48:00 particularly described in section 1 hereof reducing
14:48:02 the rear setback from 40 feet to 10 feet waiving the
14:48:05 direct access to a collector or arterial street,
14:48:10 allowing grass parking spaces with the exception of
14:48:12 the drive aisle and handicapped parking providing an
14:48:14 effective date.
14:48:16 >> Second.
14:48:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Voice roll call.
14:48:21 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Harrison and Ferlita
14:48:25 being absent.
14:48:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
14:48:28 would like to speak on item 93?
14:48:30 >> Move to close.
14:48:31 >> Second.
14:48:31 (Motion carried).
14:48:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move the following ordinance upon
14:48:41 second reading, an ordinance repealing ordinance
14:48:44 2002-151, an ordinance making lawful the sale of
14:48:47 beverages containing alcohol regardless of alcoholic
14:48:50 content, beer, wine and liquor, 4(COP), for
14:48:52 consumption on the premises and in sealed containers
14:48:55 for consumption off premises in connection with a
14:48:57 restaurant business establishment on that certain lot,
14:49:01 plot or tract of land located at 450 Channelside
14:49:04 Drive, Tampa, Florida, as more particularly described
14:49:07 in section 3 hereof, waiving certain restrictions as
14:49:09 to distance based upon certain findings, imposing
14:49:13 certain conditions based upon the location of the
14:49:15 property, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
14:49:19 conflict, providing an effective date.
14:49:21 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
14:49:23 Voice roll call.
14:49:23 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder and
14:49:31 Harrison and Ferlita being absent.
14:49:33 >> Is there anyone in the public that would like to
14:49:35 speak on item 94?
14:49:37 >> Move to close.
14:49:38 >> Second.
14:49:38 (Motion carried).
14:49:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Mrs. Alvarez.
14:49:41 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Move to adopt the following ordinance
14:49:45 upon second reading, an ordinance repealing ordinance
14:49:50 2005-55 making lawful the sale of beverages containing
14:49:54 alcohol of more than 1% by weight and not more than
14:49:57 14% by weight and wines regardless of alcoholic
14:50:00 content beer and wine 2(APS) in sealed containers for
14:50:03 consumption off premises only at or from that certain
14:50:06 lot, plot or tract of land located at 2511 West Swann
14:50:09 Avenue, Tampa, Florida as more particularly described
14:50:11 in section 3 hereof, waiving certain restrictions as
14:50:14 to distance based upon certain findings, providing for
14:50:16 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
14:50:19 effective date.
14:50:20 >> I have a motion and second.
14:50:21 Voice roll call.
14:50:27 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder, Harrison
14:50:29 and Ferlita being absent.
14:50:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
14:50:33 would like to speak on item 95?
14:50:35 >> Move to close.
14:50:36 >> Motion and second to close.
14:50:37 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
14:50:38 Opposed, Nay.
14:50:39 Mr. White?
14:50:40 >>KEVIN WHITE: Move the following ordinance upon
14:50:42 second reading, move an ordinance making lawful the
14:50:45 sale of beverages containing alcohol of more than 1%
14:50:47 by weight and not more than 14% by weight beer and
14:50:52 wines regardless of alcoholic content beer and wine
14:50:55 2(APS) in sealed containers for consumption off
14:50:58 premises only at or from that certain lot, plot or
14:51:00 tract of land located at 2901 north 50th street
14:51:04 Tampa, Florida as more particularly described in
14:51:05 section 2 hereof waiving certain restrictions as to
14:51:09 distance based upon certain findings providing for
14:51:11 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
14:51:14 effective date.
14:51:14 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Harrison and Ferlita
14:51:22 being absent.
14:51:24 >> Is there anyone in the public that wants to speak
14:51:25 on item 96?
14:51:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Madam Chair, I need to abstain.
14:51:39 I provided Mr. Shelby with the document, as I stated
14:51:42 numerous times.
14:51:44 So Mr. Versaggi is a client of my law firm.
14:51:47 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I would ask council, I provided that
14:51:51 copy to the clerk.
14:52:00 >>> Truett Gardner.
14:52:01 I know we were very long winded at the last hearing
14:52:03 and you have had along meeting today.
14:52:05 And we won't rehash the whole hearing.
14:52:07 But since the last hearing, actually on Monday,
14:52:11 talking to Gina Grimes, who was engaged to represent
14:52:14 the neighborhood, we rearranged our schedules
14:52:17 yesterday, and Gloria Burton and Gina Grimes met with
14:52:24 myself, Rus Versaggi and members of the team and
14:52:29 wanted clarification on a couple of notes of the site
14:52:32 I talked to Ms. Grimes again last night.
14:52:34 We agreed to basically amend the site plan to address
14:52:40 every single one of the concerns that they raised.
14:52:42 Just to refresh your memory, this was a project --
14:52:50 there is no reason getting into the details again.
14:52:52 But I did want to address it before, the points that
14:52:56 we are going to change, at your direction.
14:52:58 We have the notes prepared.
14:53:00 Julie was nice enough to talk to me last night and
14:53:06 said that we could go to first reading and that would
14:53:08 put us back another two weeks but Mr. Versaggi just
14:53:11 wanted to be totally clear on everything and we are
14:53:13 willing to go that route.
14:53:15 So with that let me address these four changes.
14:53:17 One, did want to make sure that with this development,
14:53:20 if there was any development on the feature that as
14:53:23 far as guest parking spaces and the green space that
14:53:27 we committed to, we would not dilute that into a
14:53:30 future development.
14:53:30 We agreed with that that. Was our intent before.
14:53:32 But we are willing to put that on the site plan.
14:53:35 Secondly, there is a masonry wall along MacDill.
14:53:42 I don't know if you can see it.
14:53:43 But Mrs. Grimes is correct in pointing out that we did
14:53:46 not state what that exact height was.
14:53:48 We have agreed, and they have agreed also, that the
14:53:51 height of the masonry section of one foot in height
14:53:54 and the wrought iron above it, three and a half feet
14:53:57 would satisfy everyone.
14:53:58 So we are willing to put that on the site plan.
14:54:05 They want sod clarification on the architectural
14:54:09 And we do want to screen the AC units above you that
14:54:18 are Ms. Grimes was correct on, and discuss that with
14:54:21 her, and that was fine as well.
14:54:26 Next and last, and this is kind of the only sticking
14:54:29 point, but wanted to call to your attention, there was
14:54:31 a discussion.
14:54:32 We were going to December ugh nature some property to
14:54:38 put in a crosswalk at the intersection of Euclid and
14:54:44 Mr. Versaggi met with the transportation department,
14:54:48 run it up the flagpole and basically forgo any money
14:54:51 he received for the property that he was dedicating.
14:54:53 All of that would be applied to the center turn lane,
14:54:55 and the crosswalk.
14:54:57 They had understood that in addition to that, we would
14:54:59 be willing to go $25 that you for the crosswalk.
14:55:03 If that was the way you heard it, we are more than
14:55:06 willing to commit to Mr. Versaggi, but he's more than
14:55:10 willing to commit to an additional $25,000 just to be
14:55:14 abundantly clear on what that was.
14:55:16 With that, if there are any other questions on the
14:55:19 development, again I don't want to run through the
14:55:22 whole hearing again.
14:55:23 But just wanted to address these concerns.
14:55:26 And if it's your direction, we are happy to put all
14:55:29 these notes on the site plan.
14:55:31 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Mr. Gardner, did you talk to the
14:55:33 neighbors around, with all these changes that you were
14:55:37 talking about?
14:55:38 >>> Yes.
14:55:38 Actually, yesterday's meeting was with Ms. Grimes and
14:55:45 Gloria Burton.
14:55:46 After the first hearing Mr.Er is advantage I was nice
14:55:52 enough to send out three times the notice requirement
14:55:54 just to let everybody know what was happening and the
14:55:56 direction we were going.
14:56:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Other questions by council members?
14:56:01 Anyone in the public like to speak on this item?
14:56:09 >>> My name is Lori Ann Burton, 3603 Waverly court,
14:56:14 and I have been sworn in.
14:56:16 I met yesterday Mr. Versaggi and his team and
14:56:21 attorney, and our attorney that was engaged by the
14:56:24 neighbors, and reviewed the site plan in conjunction
14:56:27 with the transcript to ensure that the assurance that
14:56:30 is Mr. Versaggi had set forth on the record are in
14:56:33 fact on the plan.
14:56:35 These are not compromises that he made with the
14:56:40 These ar assurances that he previously stated on the
14:56:42 And we wanted to make sure that they were on the site
14:56:47 Based on the time, effort and cost incurred by the
14:56:51 neighbors, many items that Mr. Versaggi has previously
14:56:54 promised are now on the amended site plan, with the
14:56:58 exception of power lines which he said he would look
14:57:03 into and are therefore not concerned at this time as
14:57:06 being part of the plan for approval today.
14:57:11 Since the power lines continue to be above ground and
14:57:14 in front of the building, and the buildings are so
14:57:16 close to the street, you will note that there is
14:57:18 absolutely no landscaping on the MacDill side of
14:57:21 this project.
14:57:25 Although I have met with Mr. Versaggi, it does not
14:57:27 mean that I support this project in any way, shape or
14:57:31 Quite the opposite.
14:57:32 I continue to oppose this project.
14:57:36 This project is incompatible with our neighborhood.
14:57:39 The height, mass and scale are out of step with the
14:57:43 surrounding structures.
14:57:45 Much has been made in the reduction of height of this
14:57:48 building, from its original plan to the amended
14:57:50 version before you today.
14:57:56 It's from 41 feet 6 inches, over all, including
14:58:00 architectural details from the initial plan to 39 feet
14:58:07 overall height, including architectural details on the
14:58:10 current plan.
14:58:12 A total reduction of two feet six inches or 6%.
14:58:17 I do not find this a remarkable reduction at all.
14:58:21 This project is incompatible with our neighborhood and
14:58:26 I encourage you to deny the petition.
14:58:28 >> Thank you.
14:58:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Speaker waiver form.
14:58:44 Three names.
14:58:45 Please acknowledge your presence.
14:58:47 Marshall Pryor.
14:58:52 Thank you.
14:58:52 Robert prior.
14:58:53 And Gene Kelly.
14:58:54 Three additional minutes, please.
14:58:59 >>> Ron Kelly.
14:59:00 3122 Waverly park, and I have been sworn.
14:59:06 I spoke in opposition to this project.
14:59:08 My primary concern being the increased density and its
14:59:11 negative effect on the neighborhood.
14:59:13 And this remains my main concern.
14:59:14 Last time this issue was addressed at least to some
14:59:17 extent by the assertion of MacDill traffic really
14:59:20 isn't all that objectionable being less than 60%
14:59:25 This complies this two-lane bidirectional street
14:59:29 should be able to handle nearly double its current
14:59:32 traffic load before congestion worries become
14:59:36 I can tell you that through repeated observations
14:59:39 living in the neighborhood that during normal
14:59:44 high-traffic periods, which stretch for hours, by the
14:59:47 way, this implication just is not credible.
14:59:50 MacDill at these times is heavily utilized and the
14:59:53 safety of those using it is jeopardized.
14:59:56 Another assertion last time was we in fact are spoiled
15:00:01 implying that we should reasonably accept more
15:00:02 congestion without complaint.
15:00:06 Perhaps fortunate is a better descriptor.
15:00:08 I mentioned before that my wife and I moved many times
15:00:11 and we have experienced in places that we weren't
15:00:14 quite as fortunate as we are now.
15:00:17 I have had commutes in Chicago, New York City and
15:00:21 Washington, D.C. areas.
15:00:21 And while these are great cities, I can tell you that
15:00:23 the traffic conditions there are not examples that
15:00:27 South Tampa should aspire to.
15:00:31 I don't think we are spoiled, I think we are
15:00:34 In the last meeting it was asserted that rather than
15:00:36 too much density we actually have too little.
15:00:39 An example to support this notion was utilization of
15:00:43 central Ybor.
15:00:44 In my estimation, councilman Harrison at that point by
15:00:50 pointing out, in Ybor where oh
15:01:07 So people moving into Ybor have the expectation of
15:01:10 presumably the acceptance of the accompanying
15:01:14 Last time the council voted to allow the rezoning and
15:01:16 many of us in the neighborhood asked the question,
15:01:19 Most of the speakers supporting the project have
15:01:22 economic objectives, and there's nothing inherently
15:01:24 wrong with that.
15:01:26 In fact, some may think the same is true of us who are
15:01:30 against the project, pointing out that our property
15:01:32 values may suffer as MacDill Avenue becomes a
15:01:37 39-foot deep canyon flooded with an ever growing river
15:01:43 of cars.
15:01:45 To approve which are impossible to sort out
15:01:50 Another factor driving the decision is its consistency
15:01:53 with the city's comprehensive plan.
15:01:55 This plan, while undoubtedly having many merits, seems
15:01:59 to be flawed when it comes to providing the
15:02:01 infrastructure needed to support density.
15:02:05 When professional members such as 57% utilization for
15:02:09 MacDill traffic, it's understandable that those
15:02:12 who are not familiar with the actual situation might
15:02:14 be falsely reassured, and thinking there's plenty of
15:02:19 room for growth without expansion.
15:02:25 You have the power to decide whether a comprehensive
15:02:27 plan is correct on a case-by-case basis.
15:02:29 And this is write believe it isn't.
15:02:31 And another issue favoring approval is that this
15:02:34 proposal is restrained in its scope.
15:02:36 In the last hearings it was pointed out that the
15:02:38 project is much less dense than the maximum allowed,
15:02:41 that it provides more than the required green space,
15:02:45 that it devotes more to parking than required and will
15:02:48 retain its stormwater run-off without contributing to
15:02:51 the existing problem.
15:02:53 Regarding density, I suggest that this is further
15:02:57 evident that the plan is mistaken in this case.
15:03:01 Calling for four, five or six times the density that
15:03:04 current zoning allows without commensurate
15:03:07 infrastructure improvements, defies logic.
15:03:11 Regarding green space, when I review the proposed
15:03:13 site, I see little of what meets my understanding of
15:03:17 green space.
15:03:18 In fact the only way the claim makes sense is if one
15:03:21 counts the driving surfaces as green space.
15:03:23 Certainly something that most citizens would not do.
15:03:27 Regarding parking, stormwater, garbage collection,
15:03:30 city water, and sewage usage, tree preservation,
15:03:34 cut-through traffic and safety, the project and its
15:03:38 inevitable follow-on projects are much more likely to
15:03:41 negatively impact the neighborhood than to be neutral.
15:03:44 So we go back to our question as to why a zoning
15:03:48 change should be approved.
15:03:49 Is it for aesthetics?
15:03:51 I don't think anyone here truly believes that nine or
15:03:54 17 or some other much higher ultimate number of
15:03:57 three-story units built right to the sidewalk would be
15:04:00 more attractive than several family -- single-family
15:04:04 homes set back from the road with nice lawns and
15:04:07 Is it economics?
15:04:09 Doubtful when negatives are considered along with
15:04:12 Would it benefit the community?
15:04:16 Again, doubtful.
15:04:17 In a nutshell we protect the erosion of our quality of
15:04:20 life simply to benefit a few at the expense of the
15:04:22 overall community.
15:04:23 Accordingly, I ask you to reconsider and to deny this
15:04:26 rezoning request.
15:04:27 Thank you.
15:04:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
15:04:35 >>> Susan lane, I live at 3010 Euclid Avenue and I
15:04:38 have been sworn in.
15:04:40 It is my understanding after listening to today's
15:04:43 previous council discussion that is here in South
15:04:46 Tampa we have talked about storm surge, fresh water
15:04:50 and critical water levels on the Hillsborough River,
15:04:53 an Tampa's fresh water supply.
15:04:56 Evacuation routes, especially out of South Tampa,
15:04:59 where storm surge will be highest.
15:05:02 And having storm shelters that take in pets and their
15:05:05 Now, council is about to give final approval to a PD
15:05:09 that will change three single-family lots to nine
15:05:12 units, and triple the density of a neighborhood where
15:05:15 many residents are against the planned development.
15:05:19 I would ask council to reconsider and vote against the
15:05:22 PD based on, one, I have not seen the latest site
15:05:26 plan, and do not know if it shows the reduction -- a
15:05:35 two-foot reduction, and does not met for the PD.
15:05:40 Did council see the latest site plan before they voted
15:05:43 for approval of phase one?
15:05:44 I would also ask that council vote against the PD
15:05:48 based on its incompatibility with the existing
15:05:52 This townhouse project is too tall, too dense, is out
15:05:56 of scale, and does not adhere to setback requirements
15:05:59 on its southern edge.
15:06:00 What will council do when asked to approve the
15:06:03 abutting phase 2 parcel with, I assume, hearing
15:06:08 setbacks on the southern edge of Euclid Avenue.
15:06:11 Euclid Avenue are R-60 which allows 20-foot front
15:06:16 This may vary out of portion setbacks.
15:06:18 What will be council's setbacks.
15:06:23 Once again, I urge council to reconsider -- and deny
15:06:28 this PD for phase one.
15:06:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Next.
15:06:38 >>> Marcus, Waverly Park, and I have been sworn.
15:06:43 And I think council members for very hard work on this
15:06:47 Obviously there have been a lot of meetings concerning
15:06:50 this particular development.
15:06:51 Mr. Harrison, Ms. Ferment, I want to thank you for
15:06:54 your vote opposing this project.
15:06:56 Obviously you have been in the neighborhood and have
15:06:58 seen South Tampa where we live is a pretty darn good
15:07:02 neighborhood and is doing pretty well.
15:07:05 Single-family homes are going up as quick as they can
15:07:08 knock down the small ones and build them.
15:07:10 I think that's the direction we needed to look at.
15:07:13 Not building condos and so forth on MacDill that
15:07:16 are going to congest the neighborhood.
15:07:18 I have four small children.
15:07:19 There's a lot of small children, kids in the
15:07:21 neighborhood, and the traffic and the density and just
15:07:23 the overpopulating of this great little community is
15:07:27 going to be too much.
15:07:29 There was an article in the paper awhile back with Mr.
15:07:33 Versaggi and his wife are trying to get harbor view,
15:07:37 that they live on, to carry the historical street.
15:07:44 For obvious reasons like this one.
15:07:46 They don't want this particular type development to
15:07:48 happen in their neighborhood which is only four blocks
15:07:50 south whereof we are now.
15:07:52 I urge you, I beg you to pleas come see -- call us,
15:07:57 drive out to the neighborhood, knock on the residents'
15:07:59 door, see what the traffic is light, see how the cars
15:08:02 are backed up from Bayshore Boulevard all the way
15:08:05 through the park area, city park, with the
15:08:08 construction -- hasn't even opened up yet.
15:08:11 All I am saying is come on, look at the neighborhood,
15:08:13 listen to the neighborhood, listen to the people that
15:08:15 live in the area, not just the people that are going
15:08:17 to benefit from this financially.
15:08:19 Thank you very much.
15:08:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
15:08:28 >>> Susan Lyon.
15:08:29 I'm here as a private citizen.
15:08:32 I would like to object to approval of this project
15:08:35 because I do not believe it's compatible with the
15:08:40 I believe you have heard this expressed by the
15:08:42 immediate neighbors in great numbers.
15:08:45 It's not compatible.
15:08:46 It's too tall.
15:08:47 It's too dense.
15:08:48 It's too close to the road.
15:08:51 We have got townhouses that we negotiated with the
15:08:56 We have done as much as we could.
15:08:58 They were built and they are sitting empty.
15:09:03 People don't want to live in South Tampa and pay these
15:09:07 kind of prices.
15:09:15 They are selling million dollar houses right on
15:09:19 But they got a yard.
15:09:20 They got some space.
15:09:22 And you take the townhouses, the ones LISS built on
15:09:28 the corner of El Prado, and MacDill.
15:09:32 Every one of them is empty.
15:09:34 So we're talking about putting more in there.
15:09:37 It's not working.
15:09:40 We are paving over South Tampa.
15:09:43 And the reason people are willing to pay $500,000 for
15:09:49 a 60-foot lot is because we got a nice area.
15:09:54 It works well.
15:09:56 And you all, I'm not trying to be mean but you
15:10:02 approved all these townhouses down south of Gandy.
15:10:07 The people down there are just having a fit.
15:10:10 Because once you look at the plan, oh, it looks very
15:10:13 pretty, it's a nice plan, it's got trees, it's got
15:10:16 But once it's built, you got three stories, they are
15:10:21 huge, right up on the road.
15:10:23 There's no place for a kid to play.
15:10:24 And they say, oh, well this is more affordable than a
15:10:27 These things are going to go for $700,000.
15:10:31 That's not affordable housing in my world.
15:10:39 I would be glad if you all would lower my taxes
15:10:42 I think $30,000 in taxes last year.
15:10:45 But that's not what we are talking about. We are
15:10:47 trying to preserve the quality of life in our
15:10:53 And we are willing to pay big taxes and big things.
15:10:56 Our schools are overcrowded.
15:10:58 Our streets are overcrowded.
15:11:00 When it rains, we flood.
15:11:03 But we still fight for it.
15:11:05 We wouldn't live anywhere else because it's nice.
15:11:10 But the way it's going, on the way here, somebody
15:11:13 stopped me, she's selling her house and moving to
15:11:15 North Carolina.
15:11:16 She can't put up with it anymore.
15:11:17 It's not what we need.
15:11:21 I would appreciate your reconsidering it because as
15:11:24 far as I'm concerned, the builder has made in a
15:11:27 concessions to the neighborhood.
15:11:30 He's got the same plan he started with.
15:11:35 He made little pretty things but he has not moved back
15:11:38 an inch.
15:11:39 He hasn't moved back from the street.
15:11:41 He hasn't put any more green space in it.
15:11:43 He hasn't lowered the height.
15:11:46 It's the same plan that they have been trying to shove
15:11:49 down our throats for awhile.
15:11:51 So if there's any way that you all can figure out to
15:11:55 deny this, I certainly would appreciate it.
15:11:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Were you sworn?
15:12:01 I'm sorry, for the record.
15:12:03 >>> Yes.
15:12:03 Before you quit, I would like to give you this thing
15:12:07 that was written about our neighborhood and it shows
15:12:09 it's not over till it's all paved over.
15:12:14 Thank you very much.
15:12:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
15:12:16 Would anyone else like to speak?
15:12:17 Mr. Gardner, do you want rebuttal?
15:12:21 >>> Truett Gardner, 101 South Franklin street.
15:12:24 I want to go over a few of the comments that were
15:12:26 On the commitments, again we met in good faith
15:12:28 yesterday with Ms. Grimes and Ms. Burton and are here
15:12:32 to clarify a comment that was made.
15:12:34 In addition to that we are going above, if you believe
15:12:37 that we committed to the additional $25,000 Mr.
15:12:41 Versaggi is absolutely fine with that commitment and
15:12:43 is willing to go the extra mile there.
15:12:45 Next on the height issue, I believe that was -- the
15:12:50 way that height works and again with the zoning all we
15:12:52 are asking for is the current height that's allowed
15:12:54 with the current zoning of RS-60.
15:12:56 Nothing more.
15:12:58 The original plan they said 41 feet 6 inches.
15:13:01 The way height works in the city that's the building
15:13:03 height if you have architectural features or if you
15:13:05 want to screen an air conditioning you can do that.
15:13:08 What Ms. Grimes did yesterday is she wanted to tie us
15:13:11 down to Wan that amount could be.
15:13:13 Currently it's unlimited.
15:13:15 When I talked to her yesterday, we asked four feet to
15:13:18 screen the air conditioning.
15:13:19 And she believed that was fair.
15:13:20 And that's the direction that we went with and what we
15:13:24 On the landscaping, that was a misstatement.
15:13:27 There is landscaping running along MacDill.
15:13:34 And when the final site plan was turned in over five
15:13:37 weeks ago.
15:13:38 Then just a few of the highlights of the development.
15:13:42 The project was found to be consistent with the
15:13:44 comprehensive plan.
15:13:48 The corridor, 90% of the MacDill corridor is not
15:13:52 single-family home.
15:13:53 It's either multifamily or commercial.
15:13:55 So as far as this being inconsistent with what exists
15:13:59 on MacDill is completely false, and 90% of what it
15:14:02 is exactly what we are proposing here.
15:14:07 Had in addition, the height according to the current
15:14:09 zonings as I stated before, we are only asking for 69%
15:14:12 of the property's potential density.
15:14:14 We are providing five times the code's required green
15:14:17 space, five times the codes, in addition to that,
15:14:22 working at a minimal impact on traffic.
15:14:25 And last, I would just like to defer back to your
15:14:32 This was the staff's report that review at the final
15:14:39 site plan.
15:14:39 As you will see, in a objections all the way through.
15:14:42 There is absolutely none.
15:14:43 There was one condition mentioned.
15:14:45 I'll read that just to be clear.
15:14:48 Grand trees will be preserved and protected.
15:14:52 That require single-family attached zone standards
15:14:55 have been met.
15:14:55 So we were -- throughout this process, we dealt with
15:15:00 the zoning staff.
15:15:01 And this is a project that not only they could
15:15:04 support, but that every single government including
15:15:08 stormwater, including all the concerns that were
15:15:11 raised have been addressed and are supported by your
15:15:13 staff. With that I ask for your support in the vote.
15:15:15 I'll turn things over to Mr. Versaggi.
15:15:17 I believe he has a few closing words.
15:15:20 Thank you for your time.
15:15:25 >>> Russell Versaggi, 3003 harbor view.
15:15:29 Very little that I can add to what Truett has already
15:15:35 I think you all know for the last year we met hard
15:15:37 with the neighbors, met with a number of them on many
15:15:40 occasions, met with staff, we have compromised, we
15:15:42 have adjusted, we have done everything that we can in
15:15:44 our power to make this a wonderful project.
15:15:47 I would love to have this at the end of harbor view on
15:15:52 MacDill which is where this is, and it acts as a
15:15:55 terrific buffer between the single-family homes on the
15:16:00 interior and the traffic on MacDill.
15:16:06 We are dedicating and create a solution to the traffic
15:16:09 -- allowing turn lanes to be put in on MacDill to
15:16:12 alleviate the traffic.
15:16:14 And as Truett pointed out we have no objections
15:16:18 We need the comp plan.
15:16:20 We have worked very hard to get this to this point.
15:16:25 We appreciate your support.
15:16:30 >> You were sworn, for the record?
15:16:32 >> I was.
15:16:33 >> Mr. Versaggi?
15:16:38 Are these units 3 bedroom 2 bath homes or what are
15:16:42 >> The floor plans haven't been designed but they
15:16:44 would be a minimum of about 2,000 square feet and more
15:16:47 than likely three bedrooms at a minimum as well.
15:16:49 Possibly a fourth or bonus room.
15:16:52 But at least three bedrooms.
15:16:54 >> So they would be mainly for families then?
15:16:58 >>> These would be for either families, you know, that
15:17:01 had need for that many bedrooms, or empty nesters or
15:17:06 people who might want to live a block from Bayshore
15:17:12 that that would enjoy crossing bay -- crossing
15:17:21 >>MARY ALVAREZ: You built a lot of things throughout
15:17:27 the City of Tampa.
15:17:28 And I think they have been multifamilies and so on.
15:17:31 Have you seen anybody that lives in these units, like
15:17:35 maybe four or five families or six families go out at
15:17:39 one time in the morning?
15:17:46 >> Transportation, the traffic situation.
15:17:50 Do they go out at one time?
15:17:55 >> There's definitely a surge when people are going to
15:17:57 work in the morning.
15:18:01 But going down MacDill which I do frequently in
15:18:05 the mornings to work, on or Bayshore.
15:18:12 No trouble whatsoever getting out.
15:18:14 As Truett mentioned we worked with the transportation
15:18:16 division they do have plans to put a new traffic
15:18:25 signal at Euclid and wanted to see on our nickel if we
15:18:29 could put in a crosswalk because we heard neighbors
15:18:31 say they had difficult at times getting across
15:18:33 And in doing so, we found out that the traffic signal
15:18:36 that is there right now does not have the south wear
15:18:41 or the brains to handle one of those crosswalks.
15:18:44 So we talked to them about what we could do to get
15:18:47 And they said that they had plans to put a new signal
15:18:51 And part of our dedication of land to the city
15:18:55 transportation division was for them to use those
15:18:58 proceeds for the crosswalk, and as Truett mentioned we
15:19:02 also would be willing to go the extra step, which is
15:19:07 if council thought that we were inferring we were
15:19:09 going to pay an extra $25,000 on our nickel, that's
15:19:12 what it cost to put in a crosswalk according to the
15:19:16 That we would be willing to do that.
15:19:20 >> Think it would be a good idea.
15:19:22 Thank you.
15:19:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I had a couple of quick questions.
15:19:25 The two grand trees that are indicated on your site
15:19:27 plan, are you saving them?
15:19:31 >>> Absolutely.
15:19:31 >> Are you asking for any green space waivers?
15:19:34 >> None whatsoever.
15:19:36 >> And it's kind of hard to see from here to there.
15:19:43 Vegetated areas in front of the units?
15:19:48 >>> Along the sidewalks and the city right-of-way, a
15:19:53 little terrace gardens in front of every unit, which
15:19:55 will act as a visual beautification accessing the
15:20:00 landscaping and side on the private property.
15:20:05 And that's one of the reasons why for the curb wall
15:20:10 which is like a retaining wall and then the wrought
15:20:12 iron above it, I think not to exceed 3.5 feet, so they
15:20:16 will be open and visible, and spacious.
15:20:19 But also beautiful.
15:20:21 The grand trees that are remaining, and I think may be
15:20:26 able to clarify further.
15:20:28 We have got five times the required green space on
15:20:31 this site.
15:20:31 And we are not trying to blend it and modify our plan,
15:20:37 if in fact there is a phase two, to get any credits or
15:20:41 blend it over.
15:20:42 But everything is on a stand-alone basis.
15:20:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
15:20:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Harrison?
15:20:49 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Mr. Versaggi, I just wanted to thank
15:20:54 After the last hearing, for those in the audience, Mr.
15:20:56 Versaggi sent me a thank you card and I thought he
15:20:59 made a mistake because I voted against his project and
15:21:01 he just said, no, thanks for being thoughtful and
15:21:03 making a reasoned decision.
15:21:06 That's rare professional courtesy.
15:21:08 We don't see that much anymore.
15:21:12 >>> Thank you.
15:21:14 >> I'm still going to vote against the project.
15:21:16 [ Laughter ]
15:21:17 >>ROSE FERLITA: Shawn, I think we are still in the
15:21:20 same boat.
15:21:20 Mr. Versaggi, your place of business is further north
15:21:26 on MacDill, is it not?
15:21:28 >>> We are right off of Howard and Swann.
15:21:32 We have a small office and one of our apartment
15:21:36 >> And your home somebody said is in harbor view.
15:21:38 Is it on the east side or the west side of
15:21:41 >>> It's on the east side of MacDill between
15:21:43 Bayshore and MacDill.
15:21:44 >> So that would mean, just to make me think as Mrs.
15:21:49 Alvarez was talking about traffic patterns, not that
15:21:51 we are accusing you or assuming that you're a traffic
15:21:55 expert, but if you are on the east side and taking a
15:21:57 rate to go to your place of business, you probably
15:21:59 have less of a hardship than the people who live on
15:22:02 this side of MacDill?
15:22:05 >>> I would say the other side of MacDill --
15:22:08 >> That's fine.
15:22:09 I don't have any questions except thank you for the
15:22:11 And I know you meant it with the best intentions
15:22:13 because of the type of a developer that you are.
15:22:18 And I think I referenced that last time.
15:22:21 At the same time, you haven't brought up anything new
15:22:24 so I'm still not supportive of your project.
15:22:26 But thank you as well for my note.
15:22:28 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to close the public hearing.
15:22:30 >> So moved.
15:22:31 >> Second.
15:22:31 (Motion carried).
15:22:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I just want to confirm with Mrs.
15:22:38 Cole, this is now going back to first reading.
15:22:44 >>GWEN MILLER: First reading, yes.
15:22:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And it will be advanced to second
15:22:47 reading and madam clerk, what date because of council
15:22:54 >>THE CLERK: Does not occur until July 13th at
15:22:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Assuming this passes on first
15:22:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move this proposed
15:23:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Can you read the ordinance we have?
15:23:05 Or do we have to have it new, Mrs. Cole?
15:23:11 >>> The ordinance hasn't changed.
15:23:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Number 96.
15:23:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'd like to move an ordinance
15:23:21 rezoning property in the general vicinity of 3603 and
15:23:25 3605 South MacDill Avenue in the city of Tampa,
15:23:27 Florida and more particularly described in section 1
15:23:29 from zoning district classifications RS-60 residential
15:23:33 single-family to PD planned development single-family
15:23:36 attached, providing an effective date.
15:23:37 >> I have a motion and second.
15:23:38 Question on the motion.
15:23:39 >>ROSE FERLITA: Just a comment before we put this to
15:23:42 closure for today.
15:23:44 Mrs. Burton was up here earlier.
15:23:46 And I think she was absolutely right.
15:23:47 The neighborhood has spent some time and some costs
15:23:51 hiring Ms. Grimes, I believe, to make sure that what
15:23:54 was said was going to be placed on the site notes.
15:23:58 And Mr. Gardner has said that.
15:23:59 I have no reason to question that.
15:24:01 But she's still right from the standpoint of
15:24:07 compatibility and fit.
15:24:08 I think Mr. Versaggi will produce a very good project.
15:24:11 But good project versus good project in the right
15:24:15 location, then the good project in right location has
15:24:18 to trump.
15:24:19 I think we have seen this again and again and again in
15:24:21 South Tampa.
15:24:24 I have been very supportive of density in the Channel
15:24:26 District and areas like that.
15:24:28 That's what people choose to elect to live in.
15:24:30 They have that opportunity.
15:24:32 People that are in South Tampa as established
15:24:35 residents with limited infrastructure have a
15:24:37 completely different issue and a completely different
15:24:44 I think it's time we think more importantly that
15:24:46 infrastructure means to decide where development goes
15:24:50 as opposed to developers.
15:24:51 Based upon that and the comments I put on record last
15:24:53 time I will not support this motion.
15:24:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Harrison?
15:24:57 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I will not support it either.
15:24:59 This is not my district.
15:25:00 I don't live in South Tampa.
15:25:02 I don't drive MacDill every single day.
15:25:04 But I know what traffic problems are like because I
15:25:06 see them every day when I leave my home and we heard
15:25:11 quite substantial and competent evidence on the record
15:25:14 last week, last time we considered this, for why this
15:25:17 project simply does not fit here.
15:25:19 And based upon that, I will not support it either.
15:25:24 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second on the
15:25:26 >>THE CLERK: Harrison, Ferlita no, Dingfelder
15:25:38 >> Number 97
15:25:42 Number 97.
15:25:44 >>KEVIN WHITE: Move an ordinance rezoning property in
15:25:46 the general vicinity of 401, 403, 404, 405, and 406
15:25:50 north Hubert Avenue and 4214 Gray Street in the City
15:25:54 of Tampa more particularly described in section 1 from
15:25:57 zoning district classifications RS-50 residential
15:26:00 single family to PD planned development single family
15:26:03 attached providing an effective date.
15:26:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
15:26:06 Voice roll call.
15:26:13 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
15:26:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
15:26:17 wants to speak on item 98?
15:26:20 >> Move to close.
15:26:21 >> Second.
15:26:21 (Motion carried).
15:26:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Ferlita.
15:26:28 >> Move the following ordinance upon second reading.
15:26:32 I don't even know where I am.
15:26:36 Rezoning property in the general vicinity of 7706,
15:26:40 7708, 07, 09, 11 south O'Brien street in the city of
15:26:45 Tampa, Florida and more particularly described in
15:26:46 section 1 from zoning district classifications IG
15:26:49 industrial general to PD single-family detached
15:26:51 residential, providing an effective date.
15:26:53 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
15:26:55 Voice roll call.
15:27:00 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
15:27:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
15:27:10 wants to speak on item 99?
15:27:12 >> Move to close.
15:27:13 >>: Second.
15:27:14 (Motion carried).
15:27:14 >>MARY ALVAREZ: You did 98?
15:27:21 I thought we did 97.
15:27:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Would you read it and wake up?
15:27:34 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I'll move to adopt the following
15:27:37 ordinance upon second reading.
15:27:39 An ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity
15:27:41 of 3410 east 11th Avenue in the city of Tampa,
15:27:44 Florida and more particularly described in section 1
15:27:47 from zoning district classifications RM-16 residential
15:27:51 multifamily to PD planned development single family
15:27:54 detached residential providing an effective date.
15:27:57 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
15:27:59 Voice roll call.
15:28:05 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena and Ferlita
15:28:09 being absent.
15:28:11 >>GWEN MILLER: We are going to go to item number 109.
15:28:14 We have officer here keeping him all day.
15:28:24 Let's open number 109.
15:28:27 I have a motion and second.
15:28:30 Has everybody been sworn in?
15:28:33 If not, would you please stand and raise your right
15:28:35 Anyone that's going to speak on these items.
15:28:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The numbers are --
15:28:40 >>GWEN MILLER: 101 to 110.
15:28:42 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 101 through 110.
15:28:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Anybody that came in.
15:28:48 >>THE CLERK: Do you solemnly swear or affirm to tell
15:28:52 the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
15:28:55 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Again when you state your name for
15:28:57 the record, please state if you have been sworn.
15:28:58 Thank you.
15:29:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Staff, staff report or not?
15:29:09 >>> Land development.
15:29:09 Presenting Z-06-82.
15:29:13 And the petitioner is looking for the 2(APS).
15:29:43 Asking for the City Council to waive the distance for
15:29:45 distance requirement between the wet zone and
15:29:47 institutional establishment on the site, alcohol is
15:29:51 incidental to the primary use of the business.
15:29:55 Land development has no objection.
15:30:09 >>> The police department has no outward objections
15:30:14 but the district 3 commander has a few comments to
15:30:17 bring to City Council attention.
15:30:20 >>> Good afternoon.
15:30:21 Thank you for consideration in moving this forward on
15:30:24 the agenda.
15:30:25 I'm Marvin Madiera, serve as the district commander of
15:30:30 the downtown area.
15:30:31 I have been sworn in.
15:30:32 Though we have no legal objections to the petitioner's
15:30:35 claim here for a wet zoning, we do want to share with
15:30:39 the council as well as the petitioner our concerns.
15:30:43 As you know, we have a considerable homeless problem
15:30:47 Many of those people unfortunately have substance a
15:30:51 because issues.
15:30:52 With the availability of alcohol in downtown on
15:30:58 Franklin Street, I think that all of you, from your
15:31:01 personal experiences, know of some of the conditions
15:31:04 that do prevail in that particular area.
15:31:07 We are just concerned, in the last three years, there
15:31:12 have only been 112 open container arrests in the
15:31:16 downtown area.
15:31:20 We're concerned that possibly with the availability of
15:31:24 alcohol for nonconsumption on that premise that that
15:31:29 problem will be enhanced or aggravated.
15:31:32 I'm hoping that you would consider a conditional
15:31:34 approval for one year review.
15:31:38 We will track the number of alcohol arrests.
15:31:41 And we will attempt to identify the sources of that
15:31:44 alcohol to see if that wet zoning in itself will have
15:31:50 an adverse impact on the quality of life in downtown
15:31:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
15:31:57 I have a question.
15:31:58 I'm a real advocate of downtown.
15:32:01 And I wouldn't want to do anything that would harm it.
15:32:03 But a couple years ago, you all might remember that
15:32:07 the hub moved from its location near the old post
15:32:10 office next to the Tampa Theatre, and they had package
15:32:15 And you didn't say boo then.
15:32:17 And they have full liquor.
15:32:20 >>> I wasn't here to address it at that time.
15:32:22 I'm not certain what the conditions were.
15:32:25 I do know what dynamics prevail at this particular
15:32:29 And I do speak on behalf of the department.
15:32:32 I have spoken with Chief Hogue about this.
15:32:35 And as I stated, we are not opposed, but we would like
15:32:39 to see a possible condition along with this approval
15:32:42 so that we could revisit in a year if this has had
15:32:46 that negative impact on the downtown community.
15:32:52 >> I want to say thank you, Mrs. Saul-Sena, one of the
15:32:55 things, the hub did have off-duty police in the
15:33:01 evenings at that location.
15:33:02 So maybe that's one of the reasons that the police had
15:33:06 no objection.
15:33:08 There used to be off-duty police officers.
15:33:11 I don't know the hours but off-duty police did work.
15:33:18 >>MARY ALVAREZ: It could have been it wasn't an APS
15:33:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It was a package sale as well as
15:33:32 >> The only rationale I can see is the fact that the
15:33:34 hub had been forever and they were just changing
15:33:37 locations so it was just taking one use and moving it
15:33:40 up the street.
15:33:41 But this is a brand new use.
15:33:43 So I think -- is it captain?
15:33:47 >>> Major.
15:33:47 >> Major, excuse me.
15:33:48 As far as the major is concerned --
15:33:59 I think the major's concerns are legitimate.
15:34:02 >>ROSE FERLITA: I'm just trying to think about this in
15:34:04 deciding and the major and I have not had any
15:34:06 conversation about this but I very much share your
15:34:09 concerns, major.
15:34:09 I think you are just a little bit more lenient in your
15:34:14 suggestions or offerings than I am.
15:34:15 And Mrs. Saul-Sena brought up the issue of the hub.
15:34:18 Mr. White is absolutely right, it is a package entity,
15:34:22 yes, but it was also 4(COP-X).
15:34:24 So that means that a lot of their sales are for people
15:34:27 going in there and have drinks with friends or
15:34:29 And they have been around for a long time and I think
15:34:31 that the gentleman had earned the reputation that he
15:34:35 had as prior location on Florida Avenue.
15:34:40 Well I am not opposed to a drugstore pharmacy having
15:34:45 package liquor available, the site where this one is
15:34:49 certainly a concern to me.
15:34:50 And instead of heeding your advice about conditional,
15:34:55 I think we are asking for trouble.
15:34:56 I think we are asking for more problems there.
15:35:01 It is within certain amount of feet of other
15:35:03 establishments that serve liquor.
15:35:05 And I am not going to support this.
15:35:08 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, just advise you that the
15:35:11 petitioner has an opportunity to make their case or
15:35:14 opportunity to rebut at this time.
15:35:16 I would just ask that you hear the testimony and weigh
15:35:19 your evidence based on -- your decision based on
15:35:23 competent substantial evidence at the close of the
15:35:24 Thank you.
15:35:26 >>ROSE FERLITA: Then let me add to my comments, major,
15:35:28 I will take what you say into consideration and make
15:35:30 my decision at the end of this petition.
15:35:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
15:35:39 >>> Good afternoon, Madam Chair.
15:35:41 Grace Yang from than the Robinson law firm, 201 North
15:35:44 Franklin Street, Tampa.
15:35:46 I have been sworn.
15:35:48 I also wanted to introduce rich Bulgo, the store
15:35:52 manager for this existing CVS store and he is
15:35:56 available in case there are any questions you would
15:35:58 like to direct at him.
15:36:04 So does not want to have a negative impact on the
15:36:06 downtown area.
15:36:07 It is very sensitive to the issue of the homeless
15:36:09 population and the population.
15:36:14 I work downtown every day.
15:36:16 I certainly do not want to be walking out at lunch
15:36:19 time and having to encounter homeless people with
15:36:23 drinking problems, as I meet friends and co-workers at
15:36:27 So it is with those kind of serious considerations
15:36:30 that we did want to come before you with this
15:36:33 petition, having weighed all the issues that come
15:36:36 before you.
15:36:38 I'd like to say that I think that what CVS is
15:36:43 proposing is not going to target the kind of
15:36:45 demographics and attract the kind of homeless people
15:36:48 who are going to be purchasing alcohol that is going
15:36:50 to be a concern to City Council.
15:36:52 This CVS store is fairly small.
15:36:56 It's on that corner.
15:36:58 They are only planning about 16 square feet out of the
15:37:02 entire store for a package beer and pack annal wine.
15:37:09 There are going to be no single-serve cans, no
15:37:12 32-ounces or quarts.
15:37:13 But I think typically attract the homeless population
15:37:16 when they are out trying to purchase and find alcohol.
15:37:20 Instead, the CVS sells a hair end beer in six packs
15:37:26 and 12 pack quantities only.
15:37:28 The wine that they are sell is going to be cabernet,
15:37:33 chardonnay, for example, at a price rate of $12 per
15:37:37 bottle up to $40 per bottle.
15:37:40 Which again I don't think is going to be the contained
15:37:42 of product that would attract the homeless population
15:37:44 coming in.
15:37:49 There are "no loitering" signs currently on the store
15:37:53 CVS is aware of the hopeless population there.
15:37:57 They certainly want to have a positive influence in
15:38:00 the area.
15:38:04 They want to be responsible, careful administrative
15:38:07 stewards, as well as alcohol vendors.
15:38:09 They would train their employees as they do with all
15:38:11 of their stores that are selling alcohol to make sure
15:38:14 that they are not selling to minors, to make sure they
15:38:18 are not selling to anyone who is visibly intoxicated
15:38:22 and to take measures that they are not going to be
15:38:24 selling to the homeless population coming in who might
15:38:33 cause problems in the area. The store enjoys a good
15:38:36 working relationship with the police enforcement and
15:38:39 I'm sure that cooperation would continue.
15:38:47 >>KEVIN WHITE: I see what you are saying.
15:38:49 I just don't know how CVS or anyone else could just go
15:38:54 to the point of whether you are homeless or not for
15:38:58 them to say something.
15:38:58 I mean, I could -- as somebody said, apparently
15:39:03 intoxicated, that someone just appears homeless you
15:39:07 are going to deny them the opportunity to buy.
15:39:11 I don't know they can go quite that far and if you
15:39:14 misspoke, please now is the time to correct it.
15:39:16 >>> Sure.
15:39:17 Under state alcohol laws, it is illegal to sell to
15:39:20 minors so we certainly wouldn't be doing that. It is
15:39:22 illegal under state alcohol laws to sell to anyone who
15:39:26 is visibly intoxicated or who is a known habitual
15:39:29 drunk ard.
15:39:30 >> You said if they were visibly homeless you were not
15:39:34 going to sell.
15:39:36 >>> In addition to that, the state alcohol laws do
15:39:39 allow -- there is a specific state alcohol statute
15:39:42 that allows alcohol retailers to discriminate against
15:39:48 commerce as long as it's not based on race, creed,
15:39:52 religion, et cetera.
15:39:53 But retailers can use their discretion to deny sales
15:39:56 to people who they have determined they would rather
15:39:59 not sell to.
15:40:00 >> I am going to get a shopping cart loaded up and
15:40:06 walk in front of CVS, and I think I would like to
15:40:10 challenge that.
15:40:11 >>> Okay.
15:40:13 >> I don't see the Constitutionality behind that at
15:40:17 all that you can discriminate on someone just because
15:40:20 they appear homeless not to sell them something.
15:40:23 >>> Well, the retailer, the alcohol retailer who hold
15:40:27 the state alcohol license does have discretion to
15:40:29 decide whether to design the sale to someone either
15:40:32 based on age, because they are concerned about the age
15:40:36 legality, based on their appearance, or seeing whether
15:40:41 they are a known drunk, so they can decline sales that
15:40:44 In addition, a retailer can use its discretion to
15:40:48 decide whether to deny a sale for someone.
15:40:50 And I think CVS, if there is a situation where a
15:40:56 homeless person comes in and wants to attempt to buy a
15:41:00 six-pack or a 12-pack, I think the CVS employees would
15:41:04 think twice about making that sale.
15:41:14 >> I wholeheartedly understand your point and TPD's
15:41:17 You just don't see how we can openly -- we as a
15:41:22 retailer -- can openly discriminate against anyone
15:41:27 who -- just based on appearance, other than the
15:41:30 appearance of intoxication.
15:41:32 If we are basing appearance solely upon he or she
15:41:38 appears homeless, and they walk in, and I had proper
15:41:41 identification, and I have U.S. currency and can
15:41:45 afford to buy whatever it is that I'm trying to
15:41:49 purchase alcohol, whether it be beer or wine, and you
15:41:52 tell me I cannot purchase that because I appear
15:41:55 homeless, in the room this morning we had probably
15:42:00 about 80 different attorneys in here and I'm sure
15:42:03 there would be an attorney that would take that
15:42:05 homeless case and take it all the way to the Supreme
15:42:15 >>> I continue to main -- maintain that it is a
15:42:18 store -- an alcohol retailer can form its own store
15:42:22 policies to decline a sale.
15:42:26 >> Well, Madam Chair, just one final comment.
15:42:29 As far as I'm concerned.
15:42:30 I'll listen to the rest of the presentation.
15:42:33 I would seriously hold reservation in my judgment of
15:42:39 approving or disapproving any petition that gives
15:42:41 anyone arbitrarily the right to discriminate against
15:42:45 anyone in any fashion the sale of whatever it is that
15:42:50 they are attempting to buy.
15:42:52 It's legal.
15:42:52 They are of legal age and have the means and capacity
15:42:55 and don't meet those other requirements of
15:42:57 appealing -- appearing intoxicated or anything else,
15:43:02 just based on sole appearance, if you look homeless
15:43:05 get out of my store, I'm not going to sell you.
15:43:11 As an individual I have a problem with that.
15:43:13 Other council members may not.
15:43:14 I do.
15:43:17 >>ROSE FERLITA: I think I said earlier I should be out
15:43:21 of here by 3:30 because of a prayer commitment but I
15:43:24 think I am going to flip sides for a minute and stay
15:43:26 long enough to clarify something if I might.
15:43:29 Certainly I can't modify your choice of words.
15:43:32 And certainly I can't convince my colleague of how he
15:43:35 should or should not interpret what you said.
15:43:38 But let me say this on behalf of CVS.
15:43:42 You are their representative.
15:43:45 My store is acquisitioned by CVS in 2000.
15:43:48 So I can speak to some of the standards and some of
15:43:51 the levels of ethics that CVS, from their home base on
15:43:55 down, from Rhode Island all the way down about what
15:43:59 they stand for.
15:44:00 And I was always given, Kevin, free reign if I thought
15:44:04 somebody was buying something that was inappropriate,
15:44:06 something that would have the potential of being used,
15:44:09 and that was over the counter drugs.
15:44:11 We did not have liquor at the store.
15:44:13 But at the same time, it was a managerial call.
15:44:15 And I don't think that the petitioner's representative
15:44:20 meant to discriminate against any particular person,
15:44:23 but they make observations, and if they see someone
15:44:27 who comes in on a more than regular basis and
15:44:30 continues to buy alcohol to go, you have to be
15:44:32 concerned based on the fact that you have just made a
15:44:35 commitment on behalf of the manager's behalf that you
15:44:38 are going to be a responsible vendor across the street
15:44:42 from the police department.
15:44:43 I think not to discount Wan his concerns are, but I
15:44:46 know what that company stands for.
15:44:49 Although it seems counterproductive because two
15:44:51 minutes I said I had problems supporting it.
15:44:53 But that doesn't have anything to do with the
15:44:55 standards that I think CVS self imposes.
15:44:58 So, Kevin, for whatever its worth, I know that CVS
15:45:03 would not allow their manager to make some
15:45:07 inappropriate prejudicial decision against anybody.
15:45:11 Maybe the choice of words was bad.
15:45:13 I can't detract or can't retract that from what she
15:45:17 But I understand what you're saying.
15:45:19 There is some.
15:45:21 Responsibility when you're selling alcohol and charge
15:45:23 whether it's deciding not to or to sell to someone on
15:45:26 a return trip, to frequent a return trip or something
15:45:30 that might concern you, I think the manager has the
15:45:32 opportunity and has the responsibility to say "yes" or
15:45:35 So for whatever it's worth, maybe you would have used
15:45:41 a choice of words that was different.
15:45:42 But I don't think that's what you intended.
15:45:44 I think you were talking about the responsibility of
15:45:46 holding this type of a license and it with comes a
15:45:52 decision process, and I think that's where the manager
15:45:54 has to make that judgment.
15:45:56 It's one of those things about doing business in a
15:45:58 retail setting, and I certainly can appreciate that.
15:46:01 I'm just supplementing what I think you were going to
15:46:05 because I know firsthand what they represent.
15:46:13 >>> I may reserve my comments but I'll come back.
15:46:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have an easy question.
15:46:18 Do you have store hours?
15:46:19 >>> Yes.
15:46:24 >> There are going to be limited store hours, Monday
15:46:26 through Friday.
15:46:28 They are 6 a.m. to 7 p.m
15:46:30 On Saturday, to 6 p.m.
15:46:34 And on Sunday they are 9 a.m. to 3 p.m.
15:46:38 So on -- items for package, beer and wine.
15:46:46 But there are limited store hours
15:46:50 There are concerns from Mr. White, and the comments
15:46:53 from Ms. Ferlita.
15:46:54 Certainly there's going to be no automatic -- no -- I
15:47:01 think they will take it into context to make sure the
15:47:04 person, as the responsible alcohol vendor, they need
15:47:06 to make sure that they are responsible in the way that
15:47:08 they are going to be selling the beer and Wayne to --
15:47:12 wine to people coming in and they will certainly take
15:47:14 that into the context, if it is a homeless person, do
15:47:17 they smell alcohol, do they appear intoxicated, are
15:47:20 they known in the area to have a substance abuse
15:47:26 Because if they are a known habitual drunk ard, then
15:47:29 the state alcohol laws require that the alcohol vendor
15:47:33 decline the sale.
15:47:39 >> I think the demographic --
15:47:47 >> Okay.
15:47:48 From the front door of this CVS, can you see the front
15:47:51 of the Tampa Police Department headquarters?
15:47:55 Catter-corner across the street?
15:47:59 >>> Yes.
15:48:00 >> I think that's pretty -- it's like the principal's
15:48:04 office or something.
15:48:05 I just wanted to make sure.
15:48:06 >>ROSE FERLITA: I need to clarify something, John.
15:48:10 I do want to put on record that although I have made
15:48:13 comments in terms of observation although I was in
15:48:16 their employ, I have no relationship with CVS,
15:48:20 business or otherwise, and I am not part of that
15:48:23 And nor are they located close to my particular
15:48:26 business where there would be a conflict.
15:48:29 I just wanted to state that for the record.
15:48:33 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I just want to clarify, just a
15:48:36 reminder, that council member Ferlita did testify --
15:48:39 or excuse me, let me rephrase that.
15:48:44 Experience through council, and I just want to caution
15:48:47 council that the evidence that you should consider
15:48:50 would be based on the competent substantial evidence
15:48:52 that is deduced from the witnesses that testified.
15:48:55 I just want to be clear that's established for the
15:49:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I am going to make this really
15:49:07 simple for you, Mr. White.
15:49:11 Will you do a one-year condition?
15:49:14 >>> CVS would be agreeable to a one-year conditional
15:49:18 if that is council's pleasure.
15:49:19 >> If I may continue.
15:49:33 I was just trying to explain.
15:49:34 I think the demographics and the audience that CVS is
15:49:39 after is really more directed towards future residents
15:49:43 or current residents that are going to be occupying
15:49:49 the condos downtown.
15:49:51 The store manager tells me he just asked on a regular
15:49:53 base us by convention ears people who are tending
15:49:57 conventions and meetings, people who are here to go on
15:50:02 the crews ships and the cruise passengers, these are
15:50:06 the kind of people who are interested in CVS and have
15:50:08 the ability to be able to purchase beer and wine, and
15:50:11 that is the niche that CVS is aiming to try to serve,
15:50:15 and that's the community need that CVS is trying to
15:50:19 serve as well.
15:50:20 I did speak at length several times with Christine
15:50:24 Burdick of the Tampa downtown partnership, and we have
15:50:27 discussed this.
15:50:28 I believe she is also supportive, and her board is
15:50:31 supportive of this petition as well.
15:50:36 I received no other negative phone calls or objections
15:50:39 to this petition.
15:50:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll wait.
15:50:48 >>> I'll be happy to answer any questions.
15:50:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: All right, major?
15:50:53 Refresh my memory.
15:50:54 Other than the hub, and I know there's Publix across
15:50:59 the river.
15:51:00 But where else is there that is just package, or
15:51:07 >>> I don't believe there is another location.
15:51:09 Officer Miller might be able to corroborate that.
15:51:14 I don't believe so.
15:51:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And how far away is the hub from
15:51:20 the CVS approximately, two blocks?
15:51:28 >>ROSE FERLITA: I have a question and clarification.
15:51:30 Just because somebody else does, if they are 4(COP),
15:51:34 they can also be package to go.
15:51:36 Just want to clarify that.
15:51:38 And gourmet, trolley's cuisine and lounge, 4(COP)
15:51:43 can't do it, 4(COP) the Hyatt Regency and the hub.
15:51:47 Just for the record.
15:51:51 >>: Just so the record is clear, if you just confirm
15:51:53 that with staff I would appreciate that.
15:51:58 >> If it's 4(COP) that's fine.
15:52:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
15:52:02 wants to speak on item 109?
15:52:03 Anyone in the public wants to speak on 109?
15:52:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I just want to hear back from Cathy
15:52:09 on that issue.
15:52:10 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
15:52:13 4(COP) is on and off premises.
15:52:22 >>> I was watching and I did swear there but I can be
15:52:25 sworn again.
15:52:27 (Oath administered by Clerk) I do.
15:52:34 I'm Christine Burdick with the Tampa downtown
15:52:38 In addition I am on the homeless coalition board and I
15:52:41 serve as co-chair of the homeless coalition task
15:52:43 And so I am very, very interested in what happens
15:52:48 downtown, and separately very interested in what
15:52:50 happens and how the homeless community is treated and
15:52:53 reacts with our community.
15:52:55 But the petition that you are considering right now,
15:52:59 we feel is a very important one for the growth that we
15:53:03 are looking for in downtown with new residents before
15:53:06 the end of the year.
15:53:08 As was mentioned, this and the hub would be the place
15:53:12 most logical for people to go and pick autopsy bottle
15:53:16 of wine or some beer.
15:53:17 We are especially looking forward to having an awful
15:53:19 lot of convention ears here soon, and they are the
15:53:22 kind of audience as Mrs. Yany mentioned that we are
15:53:28 going to be ready to serve.
15:53:29 I think this will be the first of several petitions
15:53:31 you will hear for licenses over the next year or two
15:53:33 and that's a good thing.
15:53:34 And actually, having downtown being more populated and
15:53:38 having it be a place where more people are walking and
15:53:41 more people using, will actually have an impact, a
15:53:44 positive impact on the homeless population, and how
15:53:47 they are treated and where they are settled.
15:53:51 So we are working very hard.
15:53:55 Another hat that I wear in having the programs that
15:53:57 will address some of those problems.
15:53:58 But I don't think by not giving CVS a license we will
15:54:02 change anything that exists currently about the
15:54:06 homeless population of downtown.
15:54:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
15:54:09 Would anyone else like to speak?
15:54:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: One more question before you close.
15:54:16 Of petitioner.
15:54:18 You had suggested that there wouldn't be singles sold,
15:54:23 and then you said a few other things that I can't
15:54:26 And I'm just wondering.
15:54:28 Is the that something that you voluntarily want to
15:54:31 include in your conditions?
15:54:33 >>> CVS is perfectly fine with including that in the
15:54:36 It is not CVS's policy or intention for this store
15:54:39 ever to have singles served cans or to have 32-ounces
15:54:44 which are also known as quarts.
15:54:46 They only intend as far as beer is concerned, they
15:54:49 only intend at this point to carry six-packs,
15:54:52 12-packs, the multi-packs for people to be able to
15:54:54 pick up and take with them to consume off premises.
15:54:58 CVS would be fine if council wishes to impose a
15:55:02 >> And that would be very persuasive to me because I
15:55:05 think if you are a convention goer then you might buy
15:55:09 a six pack and take it back to your hotel and party
15:55:12 But if you're not a convention goer, you might be very
15:55:18 inclined to just go by a single.
15:55:20 And I think there's a big difference there.
15:55:22 So I might be inclined --
15:55:25 >> You usually say point of order.
15:55:27 May I clarify something?
15:55:28 This is where I miss Cathy Coyle and I think the other
15:55:31 colleague is going to say I don't think that's
15:55:33 something we can regulate.
15:55:34 I appreciate your store policy and that's fine and I'm
15:55:36 listening to your testimony.
15:55:37 I may even support you.
15:55:39 But still, let's let her talk about that.
15:55:41 I think hours of operation, location, go ahead.
15:55:45 >>> Rebecca Kert, legal department.
15:55:47 The only conditions that City Council can apply to the
15:55:51 wet zoning would be related to the location of the
15:55:52 business, sanitary conditions, and the hours of the
15:55:57 >> Even if they want to voluntarily put it on there?
15:56:00 >>> It's limited specifically by the ordinance.
15:56:04 Certainly they can say that.
15:56:05 But if that's put in the ordinance the regulations at
15:56:08 this point don't allow that.
15:56:10 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to close the public hearing.
15:56:12 >> So moved.
15:56:12 >> Second.
15:56:13 (Motion carried).
15:56:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Would you need a motion to direct
15:56:18 legal to prepare the ordinance with the condition.
15:56:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
15:56:22 >> Second.
15:56:22 (Motion carried).
15:56:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Nay.
15:56:29 >> A one-year condition.
15:56:32 >> One year?
15:56:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.
15:56:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 101 is a continued public hearing.
15:56:42 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
15:56:43 We did receive a letter from attorney Gina grahams
15:56:46 requesting a one-month continuance.
15:56:48 That would be to July 20th, 10 a.m.
15:56:52 >>MARY ALVAREZ: How many do we have?
15:56:59 Every time they come up it's continued.
15:57:05 Number 101.
15:57:07 >>CATHERINE COYLE: October 6th, November 10,
15:57:10 January 7, February 2nd.
15:57:12 February 9.
15:57:14 March 9.
15:57:14 March 30.
15:57:15 May 22nd.
15:57:16 June 15th.
15:57:18 Now asking for July 20.
15:57:20 Those are the dates that Jimmy Cook has written down.
15:57:24 The letter itself -- the letter itself says continued
15:57:30 hearing has been scheduled on the above referenced
15:57:32 petition for June 15, 2006, on behalf of our client,
15:57:37 respectfully requests what we hope will be the final
15:57:40 continuance request.
15:57:41 We met this week with representatives from the city
15:57:43 regarding ownership issues, the appraisal for the
15:57:46 subject parcel, the city representatives for a 30-day
15:57:52 This is slightly on behalf of the city as well.
15:57:56 She wrought but meeting with the city according to
15:57:58 this, the city representatives agreed with the 30 day
15:58:01 continuance would be needed.
15:58:02 There are ownership issues with the land, whether or
15:58:05 not we own it or whether it's right-of-way.
15:58:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Does anyone in the public want to talk
15:58:10 against the continuance?
15:58:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So moved.
15:58:15 >> Second.
15:58:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Question on the motion, Mr. Dingfelder?
15:58:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 30 days?
15:58:19 Our esteemed attorney Mr. Shelby suggested considering
15:58:23 all these continuance that is perhaps the renoticing
15:58:26 might be appropriate.
15:58:29 I'm not saying it's required or mandatory.
15:58:31 I just think it's appropriate.
15:58:33 I'm sure the developer wouldn't have a problem with
15:58:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY: We don't have the petitioner here.
15:58:39 Petitioner's representative?
15:58:44 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The code requirement is 30 days for
15:58:46 the notice and that's not counting the hearing date.
15:58:48 If you would actually require the standard notice to
15:58:51 go further --
15:58:53 >>KEVIN WHITE: Let's try 60 days.
15:58:55 Since we have done all of this and we have continued
15:58:57 this many times, let's do a 06 ---60 day continuance
15:59:01 to give staff as well as the petitioner an opportunity
15:59:03 to get their respective acts together, and to
15:59:10 On behalf of the petitioner.
15:59:13 I put that in there as a motion.
15:59:15 >> So moved.
15:59:16 >> Second.
15:59:16 (Motion carried).
15:59:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 102 needs to be continued to
15:59:21 August 3rd.
15:59:23 >> So moved.
15:59:24 >> Second.
15:59:26 >>KEVIN WHITE: 10 a.m.
15:59:29 (Motion carried).
15:59:33 >>MARY ALVAREZ: we are not here.
15:59:35 >>GWEN MILLER: August 3rd.
15:59:38 We need to open 103.
15:59:40 >> So moved.
15:59:41 >> Second.
15:59:41 (Motion carried).
15:59:42 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
15:59:44 I have been sworn.
15:59:47 This petitioner is requesting to vacate the east-west
15:59:49 alley running from Florida Avenue to Highland Avenue
15:59:52 that lies between Curtis street and Osborne Avenue,
15:59:58 staff has no objections with utility easements being
16:00:04 Note the aerial on the Elmo.
16:00:07 >> What number is this?
16:00:08 >>GWEN MILLER: 103.
16:00:11 This is an alley, they are doing east-west.
16:00:19 This is a view of the alley here.
16:00:25 This is also a view of the alley, the structure right
16:00:28 along the alleyway.
16:00:33 >> How wide is the alley?
16:00:34 >>CATHERINE COYLE: That's a very good question.
16:00:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It's unusually thin.
16:00:44 >>> Maybe it's around 10 feet.
16:00:47 10 feet.
16:00:50 This is the north-west key portion, the top of the tee
16:00:56 that is open and will remain open.
16:01:06 Staff had no objections.
16:01:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner for 103?
16:01:17 >> I have been sworn in.
16:01:24 Met with all the neighbors on the street with the
16:01:26 exception of one person who failed to appear or write
16:01:29 We'd like to vacate the alleyway.
16:01:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the audience that
16:01:33 wants to speak against 103?
16:01:36 >> Move to close.
16:01:37 >> Second.
16:01:37 (Motion carried).
16:01:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you have it?
16:01:40 >> Move to direct legal to prepare the ordinance.
16:01:42 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
16:01:44 (Motion carried).
16:01:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to sort of apologize to
16:01:50 folks in the audience that have been at this meeting.
16:01:55 Thank you for your patience.
16:01:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: One more thing.
16:02:00 I want to say the reason I'll support this vacating,
16:02:03 it's a very narrow alley and it appears it's not used.
16:02:06 Is that correct?
16:02:07 >>CHAIRMAN: Okay.
16:02:09 Number 104 cannot be heard.
16:02:10 >>THE CLERK: On the agenda there is a resolution that
16:02:15 amended petition has been filed and they would like
16:02:16 the public hearing to be reset for July 20th.
16:02:21 >> Motion and second.
16:02:22 All in favor say Aye.
16:02:23 Opposed, Nay.
16:02:24 (Motion carried) number 105 cannot be heard.
16:02:34 What do we do?
16:02:35 >>THE CLERK: Item 105, there's nothing the council
16:02:38 needs to do.
16:02:40 Reschedule to the July 20th.
16:02:44 >> So moved.
16:02:45 >> Second.
16:02:45 (Motion carried).
16:02:47 >> Move to open 106.
16:02:52 >> Land development.
16:02:53 I have been sworn.
16:02:54 The next petition is WZ 06-75.
16:02:58 4320 North Armenia.
16:03:00 Petition is looking 2(APS).
16:03:15 It was for wet zoning in 1995, but it lost its wet
16:03:21 zoning status in December 2004.
16:03:25 They are wet zoned property to 1,000 feet.
16:03:30 There is one vacant lot which is residential, and 121
16:03:40 feet this time.
16:03:44 They ask City Council to waive the distance separation
16:03:46 between the institution residential and wet zone
16:03:54 Alcoholic is incidental to the business.
16:03:56 Land development has no objections.
16:04:05 >>> Officer Dan Miller.
16:04:06 I have been sworn.
16:04:07 Tampa city police department.
16:04:08 We have no objection to this wet zoning.
16:04:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
16:04:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You have been very patient.
16:04:17 >>> Good afternoon.
16:04:19 Todd Pressman, Clearwater, Florida.
16:04:22 It's been wonderful spending the day with you today.
16:04:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You have been sworn?
16:04:28 >>> Yes, I have.
16:04:29 I think this is pretty straightforward.
16:04:31 We worked closely with the applicant and with the city
16:04:33 and the officer.
16:04:34 I don't think there's anyone here in opposition.
16:04:36 I'll reserve comments if there's any additional
16:04:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public to speak
16:04:41 on item 106?
16:04:42 >> Move to close.
16:04:43 >> Second.
16:04:43 (Motion carried).
16:04:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Pleasure of council?
16:04:47 >> Move for approval.
16:04:57 Snoop on the corner of Armenia and MLK.
16:05:00 An ordinance making lawful the sale of beverages
16:05:02 containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight and not
16:05:05 more than 14% by weight and wines regardless of
16:05:08 alcoholic content beer and wine 2(APS) in sealed
16:05:11 containers for consumption off premises only at or
16:05:13 from that certain lot, plot or tract of land located
16:05:15 at 4320 north Armenia Avenue, Tampa, Florida, as more
16:05:19 particularly described in section 2 hereof waiving
16:05:22 certain restrictions as to distance based upon certain
16:05:24 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
16:05:27 conflict, providing an effective date.
16:05:29 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
16:05:30 (Motion carried)
16:05:33 Open 107.
16:05:34 >>KEVIN WHITE: Move to open 107.
16:05:36 >> Second.
16:05:37 (Motion carried).
16:05:41 >> Land development.
16:05:43 I have been sworn.
16:05:43 The next petition is wet zoning WZ 06-77.
16:05:50 2500 Rocky Point drive, extension for 4(COP-X).
16:05:58 They had one extension on this location.
16:06:00 One-year extension.
16:06:02 It was in 2005.
16:06:07 The extension expired on the 22nd of March of this
16:06:10 The petitioner is requesting another one-year
16:06:13 extension to complete repairs.
16:06:21 It would allow you to give the petitioner extension,
16:06:29 because this is the second one.
16:06:33 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
16:06:34 This is the second request from City Council, and that
16:06:37 is allowed if the sale of alcoholic beverages is
16:06:40 incidental to the primary use of the business.
16:06:42 And that was -- what the applicant is supporting.
16:06:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Officer?
16:06:52 >>> Police department.
16:06:52 We have no objection.
16:06:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
16:06:59 >>> Joseph Diaz, my office is at 2522 West Kennedy
16:07:03 I have been sworn.
16:07:04 I did appear before this council last year and
16:07:07 obtained a one-year extension.
16:07:09 Under the code section, if the sale of alcoholic
16:07:11 beverages is incidental to the primary business, it is
16:07:14 possible for you to grant more than one, one-year
16:07:19 If you look at the original ordinance at what's
16:07:22 adopted, the ordinance was in fact a finding that the
16:07:26 sale of alcoholic beverages is incidental.
16:07:28 So we do qualify for another one-year extension.
16:07:33 This is the old craw daddy's whisk can I Joe location.
16:07:39 I have been in contact with people out in California
16:07:41 and they are apparently started the remodeling
16:07:44 They have had some damage of the structure and we are
16:07:46 requesting another year which I believe would take us
16:07:48 through March 22nd of next year, of 2007.
16:07:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
16:07:53 wants to speak to item 107?
16:07:55 >> Move to close.
16:07:55 >> Second.
16:07:56 (Motion carried).
16:07:57 >>THE CLERK: I do have the resolution.
16:08:02 >>KEVIN WHITE: Move the resolution.
16:08:04 >> Second.
16:08:04 (Motion carried).
16:08:04 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Move to open number 108.
16:08:12 >> Second.
16:08:12 (Motion carried).
16:08:19 >>> Land development.
16:08:19 I have been sworn.
16:08:20 The next petition is WZ 06-81 2(APS) for location at
16:08:28 4120 Henderson Boulevard.
16:08:38 For alcohol.
16:08:42 There are some wet zoned properties within a thousand
16:08:44 There are two residential properties in less than
16:08:49 1,000 feet.
16:08:50 There is one institutional property on 4230 Henderson
16:08:58 And they are asking for City Council to waive the
16:09:06 distance separation if the sale of alcohol is
16:09:10 The petition -- we have no objection as the land
16:09:19 Thank you.
16:09:21 >>> Tampa Police Department.
16:09:22 We have no objections to this wet zoning.
16:09:26 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
16:09:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: This is a much easier part of town.
16:09:38 Grace Yang, 201 North Franklin Street.
16:09:42 I have been sworn.
16:09:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Why don't you reserve your comments
16:09:46 for rebuttal?
16:09:47 Thank you.
16:09:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public to speak
16:09:49 on 108?
16:09:50 >> Motion to close.
16:09:51 >> Second.
16:09:51 (Motion carried).
16:09:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. White?
16:09:55 >>KEVIN WHITE: Move an ordinance making lawful the
16:09:57 sale of beverages containing alcohol more than 1%
16:10:00 weight not more than 14% by weight and wines
16:10:03 regardless of alcoholic content beer and wine 2(APS)
16:10:06 in sealed containers for consumption off premises only
16:10:08 from that certain lot, plot or tract of land located
16:10:11 at 4120 Henderson Boulevard, Tampa, Florida as more
16:10:14 particularly described in section 2 hereof waiving
16:10:16 certain restrictions as to distance based upon certain
16:10:18 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinance MS
16:10:21 conflict, providing an effective date.
16:10:23 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
16:10:24 (Motion carried).
16:10:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Need to open 110.
16:10:29 >> So moved.
16:10:29 >> Second.
16:10:29 (Motion carried).
16:10:35 >>> Land development.
16:10:36 I have been sworn.
16:10:37 WZ 06-83.
16:10:39 For the location of 2025 east Fowler Avenue.
16:10:44 They are looking for their 4(COP) wet zoning.
16:10:48 They are requesting a change of wet zoning to sell of
16:10:54 alcohol in the bar.
16:10:59 Granted a first 4(COP-R) on this site it was in
16:11:04 October 22nd, 1985.
16:11:12 There is no residential.
16:11:13 And no institutional uses.
16:11:17 At the location.
16:11:18 Land development has in a objection.
16:11:25 >>> Tampa Police Department.
16:11:26 We have no objections to this wet zone.
16:11:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
16:11:36 >>> Grace Yang, I have been sworn.
16:11:41 As was already stated this is an existing bar.
16:11:44 It's currently known as the university area hang-out,
16:11:47 it's in the shopping center on Fowler Avenue, it was
16:11:49 previously reincarnation, diggety dog.
16:11:59 They are asking for council's permission to convert
16:12:01 from a 4(COP) wet zoning.
16:12:04 It has been an existing liquor use since 1985.
16:12:08 I am not aware of any problems.
16:12:11 Mr. Hibbert is one of the corporate officers of life
16:12:15 behind bars ventures II, Inc. Let me assure you that
16:12:20 he is a fine upstanding citizen, no arrests, no
16:12:23 criminal record.
16:12:29 >> As long as he doesn't sell to minors, life behind
16:12:31 >> The reason it's called life behind bars is because
16:12:34 he and his partner have been bartenders for a good
16:12:37 part of their lives and they thought it would be cute
16:12:39 to be called life behind bars.
16:12:41 But let me assure you --
16:12:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
16:12:45 would like to speak on item number 110?
16:12:48 >> Move to close.
16:12:48 >> Second.
16:12:49 (Motion carried).
16:12:55 >> Move an ordinance repealing ordinance 9072-A making
16:13:00 lawful the sale of beverages containing alcohol
16:13:03 regardless of alcoholic content beer, wine and liquor
16:13:05 4(COP) for consumption on the premises in sealed
16:13:08 containers for consumption off the premises in
16:13:09 connection with a business establishment on that
16:13:12 certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 2025
16:13:18 east Fowler Avenue, Tampa, Florida, and more
16:13:20 particularly described in section 3 hereof, waiving
16:13:22 certain restrictions as to distance based upon certain
16:13:24 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
16:13:27 conflict, providing an effective date.
16:13:29 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
16:13:30 (Motion carried).
16:13:32 >>KEVIN WHITE: Move to receive and fail all documents.
16:13:36 >> Second.
16:13:36 (Motion carried).
16:13:37 >>GWEN MILLER: We now go to information by council
16:13:40 Mr. Dingfelder, do you have anything?
16:13:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
16:13:43 Madam clerk, awhile back we discussed the Variance
16:13:46 Review Board and the makeup and that sort of thing.
16:13:49 And I think we suggested it could be converted from --
16:13:53 Seth Nelson could be converted from a temporary member
16:13:55 to full-time member.
16:13:57 Do you know the status of that?
16:13:59 >>THE CLERK: According to the motion adopted at the
16:14:00 time it was made it was indicated he was reappointed
16:14:04 as an alternate member.
16:14:06 He is currently the mayor's appointment to the VRB.
16:14:08 And at this time there is no space or category for him
16:14:12 to go into as a full-time member.
16:14:17 We already have the attorney, the architect, the other
16:14:21 side is the arborist.
16:14:25 So I don't know --
16:14:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Maybe Mr. Cotton can get that to us
16:14:33 within two weeks.
16:14:33 That would be my motion.
16:14:34 Two weeks.
16:14:37 Well, make it the first meeting in July.
16:14:41 >>THE CLERK: July 13.
16:14:43 >> Second.
16:14:44 (Motion carried).
16:14:47 >> Very quickly.
16:14:48 You all heard about the legislation in Tallahassee
16:14:53 that passed that gives local government the ability --
16:14:59 local government the ability to allow restaurants to
16:15:03 allow people to bring their dogs in the outdoor eating
16:15:08 You all didn't hear about that?
16:15:10 Did you. Anyway, it passed.
16:15:25 FHP a local government wants to adopt an ordinance to
16:15:28 allow that, then it would be adoptional to the
16:15:31 I am not trying to make any restaurants do. This then
16:15:33 it would only be for outdoors, in the decks or patio
16:15:37 areas for people who like to bring their dogs.
16:15:39 Anyway, I was contacted, and somebody suggested that
16:15:43 we might want to look at that.
16:15:44 I'm not necessarily saying we should do it.
16:15:46 I'm saying I would like to get a report back from
16:15:48 staff and legal on their recommendation for adopting
16:15:53 this as a local ordinance.
16:15:54 And that would be -- I'll give them a month to come
16:15:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I second the motion.
16:16:02 And I have to say when the state took it up I was
16:16:04 shocked because I didn't know it wasn't legal.
16:16:10 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
16:16:12 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
16:16:13 Opposed, Nay.
16:16:13 (Motion carried).
16:16:15 (Motion carried).
16:16:16 >>THE CLERK: That would be July 13th.
16:16:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: let's go further.
16:16:23 To the 22nd.
16:16:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Anything else?
16:16:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Want to vote on that?
16:16:29 >>GWEN MILLER: We did.
16:16:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We did?
16:16:31 Then the last thing, and I want to make sure people
16:16:33 don't fall out of their chairs.
16:16:35 I want us to see if Mr. Shelby could prepare a
16:16:38 resolution from this council.
16:16:40 I think there's been some confusion about whether or
16:16:42 not this city supports the Republican national
16:16:45 convention coming here in '08.
16:16:47 I want to make it abundantly clear that this city, and
16:16:50 specifically City Council, is in support of the
16:16:52 Republican national convention coming to this city.
16:16:56 Now I am not going to get into the money issues,
16:16:58 because takes mayor has already made it clear, how she
16:17:02 feels, the limitations, I think that's appropriate.
16:17:05 But I do think that we should make at abundantly clear
16:17:07 by resolution, and we have been asked to do this by
16:17:10 the way by the chamber, to -- and there's a whole
16:17:14 laundry list of why it's good for the community but I
16:17:18 assume you all read it in the paper.
16:17:19 So I make a motion, Mr. Shelby, to prepare a
16:17:22 resolution based on some of this information from the
16:17:24 chamber in support of the bay area's effort to bring
16:17:27 the Republican national convention to Tampa Bay in
16:17:34 Next week's agenda.
16:17:41 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
16:17:44 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
16:17:45 (Motion carried).
16:17:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Nothing.
16:17:48 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Nothing.
16:17:49 >>KEVIN WHITE: Just briefly.
16:17:50 I will just comment on Mr. Dingfelder's motion.
16:17:53 The only reason, I think everybody knows this is a
16:17:58 nonpartisan board, and if it was the democratic
16:18:00 national convention I would do the same thing.
16:18:02 I just look at the only reason I'm supporting that is
16:18:04 because of the potential economic impact that it's
16:18:07 going to bring our entire community respectively.
16:18:11 Our downtown hotels, our restaurants, our bars, our
16:18:16 night life, everything.
16:18:18 And I think it's an opportunity for every entity
16:18:24 within the City of Tampa regardless of political
16:18:29 affiliations, race, ethnic, creed, everybody can
16:18:33 benefit by money being spent in the community.
16:18:35 And I'm sure that was the flavor of the motion.
16:18:40 And that's why --
16:18:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I appreciate the clarification and
16:18:43 I support your support.
16:18:47 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a couple.
16:18:48 I will be presenting a commendation to the young lady
16:18:51 who assisted the officer when he got shot, the name is
16:18:55 Brittany Boone, next Thursday.
16:19:01 (Motion carried).
16:19:03 And Mrs. Ferlita wants me to say she's going to be
16:19:06 giving Cate O'Dowd a commendation next Thursday
16:19:10 because she'll be leaving the city.
16:19:11 (Motion carried)
16:19:13 Clerk, do you have anything?
16:19:15 >>THE CLERK: No.
16:19:17 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I don't want to prolong this any
16:19:19 longer but I happened to think that today is my second
16:19:22 official anniversary.
16:19:25 I just want to personally and publicly --
16:19:29 >>GWEN MILLER: You want a commendation?
16:19:31 [ Laughter ]
16:19:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Does that mean I'm leaving?
16:19:35 [ Laughter ]
16:19:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Commendation for your anniversary.
16:19:39 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Not necessarily.
16:19:41 I want to say City Council, thank you for the
16:19:43 tremendous privilege it is to serve you and to assist
16:19:46 you in serving your constituents individually.
16:19:48 I just want to thank you.
16:19:49 >>GWEN MILLER: You're quite welcome.
16:19:51 Anything else to come before council?
16:19:54 We go to our audience portion.
16:19:57 (Off camera)
16:21:02 (City Council meeting adjourned at 4:21 p.m.)