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City of Tampa
Tampa City Council
Thursday, July 20, 2006

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09:11:00 [Sounding gavel]
09:11:02 >>GWEN MILLER: Tampa City Council is called to order.
09:11:09 The chair will yield to Mr. John Dingfelder.
09:11:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Madam Chair.
09:11:15 Rise for the invocation.
09:11:16 And followed by the pledge of allegiance.
09:11:19 And I'm giving the invocation today.
09:11:25 Basically what I would like to say is have us bow our
09:11:28 heads and have a moment of silence.
09:11:30 While we do that, I want us to remember our troops in
09:11:33 the mideast and also to remember all the folks in the
09:11:35 mideast and the conflicts that are going on there.
09:11:37 Let's pray for peace.
09:11:41 (moment of silence)
09:11:59 Thank you.
09:11:59 (Pledge of Allegiance)
09:12:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Roll call.
09:12:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
09:12:19 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Here.
09:12:21 >>ROSE FERLITA: Here.
09:12:24 >>KEVIN WHITE: Here.
09:12:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:12:26 Before we begin our meeting I would like to welcome
09:12:29 back my aide Libby Wilson back to work.
09:12:33 During summer break she was in a car accident and
09:12:35 suffered a broken collar broken, fractured back and
09:12:39 neck and mild concussion.
09:12:41 Thank God she will still with be with us because she
09:12:44 is a valuable asset to this office.
09:12:46 Now I would like to yield to Ms. Rose Ferlita.
09:12:52 >>ROSE FERLITA:
09:13:09 >>ROSE FERLITA: I'm joined by the chief and fellow
09:13:11 officers.
09:13:13 I want to make a deal with you.
09:13:15 If I can pronounce Wasierski, maybe you can pronounce
09:13:21 Ferlita.
09:13:22 >>GWEN MILLER: It sounds good.
09:13:25 I don't want to change it.
09:13:26 >> As always, good morning, ladies and gentlemen,
09:13:30 colleagues, my pleasure to begin the Officer of the
09:13:33 Month ceremony by harassing my chairman.
09:13:38 So we will move forward to the rest of the business.
09:13:41 It is my pleasure to help Chief Hogue and Chief Castor
09:13:47 to say thank you to the men and women who do such an
09:13:51 incredible job at TPD and you are the gentleman we
09:13:55 would like to recognize today. Not a job I would want
09:13:58 to pick you over some of the other wonderful men and
09:14:00 women as well.
09:14:01 At this point I will let the chief give a little
09:14:05 information about you and why he chose you.
09:14:11 >>CHIEF HOGUE: Good morning, council.

09:14:12 Once again I do appreciate the fact that Rose and the
09:14:16 council recognize a police officer each month.
09:14:21 It means a lot to every officer there.
09:14:24 Not only they get it or don't get it but the fact that
09:14:27 officers are being recognized.
09:14:29 And this month, we have officer Wasierski who was our
09:14:36 Officer of the Month for July 2006.
09:14:38 Officer comes to us from another agency so he brought
09:14:42 about five years worth of experience.
09:14:44 When he came.
09:14:45 He's been what us about three years now.
09:14:49 In fact, when I came back here, him and I went through
09:14:52 the physical together.
09:14:53 He did a little better than I did.
09:14:56 That's to be expected.
09:14:58 But the reason that we picked him for Officer of the
09:15:02 Month, we had several incidents occur that he was
09:15:05 involved in that were exemplary in nature, and so I
09:15:10 would like to go through some of those.
09:15:11 First off, he started off this month by making a
09:15:15 routine traffic stop, which is good practical police
09:15:19 work, and during that time the suspect immediately

09:15:24 fled from the car.
09:15:25 So Eric, being a pretty productive guy, figured
09:15:31 something was up.
09:15:31 So he ran this individual down, and not only was he --
09:15:36 had traffic violations that he was arrested for, but
09:15:39 also for felony possession of marijuana.
09:15:43 A couple of days later, he gets a call to an auto
09:15:48 theft suspect in the area.
09:15:50 He goes over.
09:15:52 He recovers the stolen car that the auto thief has
09:15:57 abandoned in the area.
09:15:58 He then, through extra effort, tracks down the auto
09:16:04 thief, where he's fled to, arrests him, and then in a
09:16:08 little bit of an unusual move, he decided, well, let
09:16:13 me look the area around, because sometimes they drop a
09:16:15 stolen car and pick up a new stolen car.
09:16:18 And sure enough he found another stolen car that the
09:16:21 suspect had dropped in the area, and also was able to
09:16:24 charge him with that.
09:16:26 Another incident in that same month, he checked on a
09:16:33 sexual offender.
09:16:34 I think it was involving a child.

09:16:36 And he was under probation and went by to make sure
09:16:41 that this individual was evaluated by his probation.
09:16:45 Through some investigative techniques he found out
09:16:47 this individual had some child pornographer on his
09:16:50 computer, rearrested him and got him back in jail and
09:16:54 off of the streets of Tampa.
09:16:56 One last incident.
09:17:01 There was an ATV around the streets driving
09:17:05 recklessly, and Eric goes to pull it over, and I guess
09:17:09 if you can call at pursuit with an ATV, chased him
09:17:13 down, he ran off, the suspect did, once again.
09:17:16 Eric tracked him down in the neighborhood and found
09:17:18 him hiding in a house and arrested him.
09:17:21 In addition to all of this, he is in our field
09:17:25 training program, and he trains new officers, which is
09:17:30 a very valuable service that he is providing to the
09:17:35 department and to the citizens, because it's a very
09:17:39 difficult job.
09:17:40 It's kind of akin to you having somebody sitting next
09:17:43 to you up there, and you have to train them all about
09:17:47 being a council person.
09:17:49 Just about the time they can make do some notes for

09:17:52 you and do something a little bit on their own,
09:17:54 somebody takes that person away and gives you somebody
09:17:56 that doesn't know anything, and you start all over
09:17:58 again.
09:17:58 So it's always a process and it's always more
09:18:01 difficult to train and work with the at the same time.
09:18:04 So the fact that he can train and produce like he does
09:18:07 is phenomenal.
09:18:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: For three years now.
09:18:20 >>> And just kind of in closing, as in most of our
09:18:23 officers of the month, it's not any one particular
09:18:28 month.
09:18:28 We just happened to pick this particular month, and
09:18:31 the things that hit in this month.
09:18:34 Because really he is being recognized as Officer of
09:18:37 the Month for his work ethic that he does every month
09:18:40 of every year.
09:18:41 This is just typical of the kind of work he does every
09:18:43 month.
09:18:44 So we are very proud to announce that Eric is our
09:18:48 Officer of the Month.
09:18:49 And thank you very much.

09:18:50 [ Applause ]
09:19:01 >>ROSE FERLITA: You sure have enough information to be
09:19:03 a little cocky.
09:19:06 That stuff is pretty good, that work ethic doesn't
09:19:09 allow that.
09:19:10 You are modest and we appreciate your commitment to
09:19:12 TPD and to us.
09:19:14 I'd like to read this commendation to you on behalf of
09:19:18 everybody that I represent.
09:19:20 And at that point, maybe you can introduce your
09:19:23 girlfriend and your parents who are certainly your
09:19:26 foundation in terms of being behind and supporting you
09:19:28 for everything you do for us.
09:19:31 So that being said, it is my pleasure as public safety
09:19:35 chairman to present this to you, Eric.
09:19:37 Tampa City Council commendation presented to officer
09:19:39 Eric Wasierski, selected as police Officer of the
09:19:46 Month for July 2006.
09:19:48 As he patrols our city, he locates and then stops the
09:19:52 suspects who continue in their criminal activities in
09:19:55 our community. This former field training office
09:19:58 Cerra strong role rod he will for all TPD officers for

09:20:01 keeping our city safe. The City Council and City of
09:20:04 Tampa commends you and I particularly say thank you
09:20:08 and it is my pleasure to present this to you.
09:20:10 Thank you for everything that you do.
09:20:12 [ Applause ]
09:20:16 We have some awards and presents.
09:20:18 Why don't you bring them up here?
09:20:23 Introduce them.
09:20:23 >> My long-time girlfriend Britt Martinez.
09:20:28 She makes me get up every morning and exercise.
09:20:31 And makes sure I eat good and everything.
09:20:34 My parents, Jane and Clary.
09:20:44 Work ethic, it started in my dad.
09:20:47 Thank you.
09:20:49 This is an honor.
09:20:50 I appreciate this award.
09:20:52 Councilman Dingfelder, I believe it's your district I
09:20:54 patrol.
09:20:56 South of Gandy.
09:20:59 A lot of nice folks there.
09:21:01 And
09:21:06 Rest assured the chief is part of it, too. I'm off

09:21:08 today, I'm off today.
09:21:10 But it's in good hands, I'm sure.
09:21:21 I can't do this by myself.
09:21:23 I have got it a really good squad, good leadership.
09:21:28 My captain is here, Bruce Jordan, captain Miller, my
09:21:32 advisors, sergeant Dicky.
09:21:35 Two of the most knowledgeable officers I know.
09:21:41 And my squad.
09:21:47 They are not here but I will sure share this with
09:21:51 them.
09:21:51 They are just as responsible as I am.
09:21:54 So thank you.
09:21:55 I appreciate it.
09:21:57 [ Applause ]
09:22:04 >>ROSE FERLITA: Eric, we have a few of our corporate
09:22:06 members in the community that would like to say thanks
09:22:08 in their own way.
09:22:17 >>> Tampa Lowry Park Zoo.
09:22:18 On behalf of the zoo I want to present with you some
09:22:21 passes and say thank you for everything you do and
09:22:24 hopefully you and your family can come.
09:22:29 So thank you so much.

09:22:35 >> Representing Bill Currie Ford.
09:22:38 On behalf of Bill Currie Ford and all of its employees
09:22:41 we would like to present with you this TPD watch.
09:22:44 Thank you for everything you do for our community and
09:22:47 protecting our people
09:22:56 >>> Steve Stickley representing Stepp's towing.
09:22:59 Eric, congratulations.
09:23:00 We appreciate everything you do.
09:23:01 On behalf of Jim and Judy Stepp, Stepp's towing
09:23:06 service we would like to present with you this statue
09:23:08 for a job well done.
09:23:09 We also have a gift certificate to Leroy Selmon's.
09:23:17 Thank you for everything you do out there.
09:23:21 >>STEVE MICHELINI: You're looking scared.
09:23:24 A lot of people.
09:23:25 I'm here on behalf of a variety of different people.
09:23:28 I just want to let you have your photograph taken
09:23:32 first.
09:23:32 And then you can enjoy the rest of these things.
09:23:34 I don't want you to gain too much weight.
09:23:39 Bryn Allen studios is presenting with you a
09:23:41 photographic package for you and your family and you

09:23:43 can go have your portrait done over there. And they
09:23:45 are going to put together a real nice package for you.
09:23:48 On behalf of Liss development and Bern's steak house,
09:23:52 they are providing you a $100 gift certificate so you
09:23:54 can enjoy yourself when you are traveling north out of
09:23:57 south Gandy, back home or wherever you are going.
09:23:59 On behalf of the Hillsborough County towing
09:24:02 association we are providing you with a $50 gift
09:24:04 certificate to your choice, Outback, Carrabba's, and
09:24:09 Po Boy's creole cafe is presenting with you a $50 gift
09:24:13 certificate for lunch or dinner.
09:24:15 One thing I want, your work is a testimony not just to
09:24:18 you but to the chief and the deputy chiefs and the
09:24:25 spirit de corps that they have established.
09:24:29 It makes them feel belter and makes you feel better
09:24:31 when you have a full stomach.
09:24:33 It's a good deal all the way around and we really
09:24:36 appreciate what you do for the citizens of Tampa and
09:24:37 this community overall.
09:24:39 Thank you very much.
09:24:44 [ Applause ]
09:24:45 >>ROSE FERLITA: Eric, a couple of our corporate

09:24:48 representatives were not able to be here and they
09:24:50 asked me to give you a couple of awards on their
09:24:52 behalf.
09:24:52 So enterprise rental is giving you a free weekend
09:24:56 special for being the Officer of the Month.
09:24:57 And there's a certificate for that.
09:25:00 Some of our new corporate members, Charlie's steak
09:25:04 house, is giving you a certificate for $100.
09:25:06 And something from me.
09:25:22 Thank you to you and your fine family and girlfriend
09:25:24 for their support.
09:25:25 We certainly appreciate it.
09:25:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I just wanted to say two things
09:25:35 actually.
09:25:35 One, as I look over here against the window, your
09:25:40 train of command is so impressive.
09:25:42 And, chief, looking at the men and women you have
09:25:46 behind you, that's just such a professional group.
09:25:49 And you should be very proud.
09:25:51 And I can see how it's a great honor to work for that
09:25:54 group of officers.
09:25:57 The other thing I wanted to say is, as you know, I'm

09:26:00 sure, when you're south of Gandy, you're a SOG, S-O-G.
09:26:08 Anyway, on behalf of all the SOGs we appreciate your
09:26:13 hard work.
09:26:14 >> I just want top say congratulations once again to
09:26:16 the officer, wonderful job that you are doing.
09:26:19 I just wanted to -- while the chief is here I had a
09:26:22 question that was going to be directed to him in our
09:26:26 information system.
09:26:26 I figured if I could get him while he's here, he won't
09:26:30 have to come back.
09:26:31 Finance you know the answer, chief, that's fine.
09:26:34 In Ybor City this weekend, and as we have all talked
09:26:39 about making Ybor City a more friendlier place
09:26:42 especially after dark, officers are doing a fine job
09:26:46 out there, but the "no parking" on 7th Avenue after
09:26:51 9:00 -- 7th Avenue after 9:00, I had about five
09:26:54 people come up to me this weekend saying -- I guess
09:26:57 there was a verbal understanding that TPD was going to
09:27:01 give like a 15-minute courtesy window at the 9 p.m.
09:27:08 hour before citizens started receiving citations for
09:27:11 parking on 7th Avenue, not with the metered spots
09:27:16 but with the no parking and I had about four, maybe

09:27:20 five people run up to me, and I had a copy brought in
09:27:23 the other day.
09:27:25 But it's 9:02 or 9:05.
09:27:30 Then at 9:15 thereabouts started towing.
09:27:33 I was just wondering, is that still a practice?
09:27:40 That was my understanding from council that we were
09:27:42 giving some -- or from the department, shall I say.
09:27:46 >>CHIEF HOGUE: What essentially happens that's
09:27:50 generally kind of a de facto, 15-minute brace period
09:27:53 because, one, the officers that do that start at one
09:27:55 end and work their way down.
09:27:57 But they do start at 9:00, or just shortly thereafter,
09:28:02 at one end of the street.
09:28:03 By the time they get down to the other end it's
09:28:05 probably 9:15 or so and then the wreckers come in and
09:28:08 start picking those up.
09:28:12 >>KEVIN WHITE: The only reason I really thought it was
09:28:15 maybe not even a problem per se but somebody's watch
09:28:20 is off two to three minutes, and you have tickets
09:28:24 marked at 9:02, and these weren't the meter maids,
09:28:31 these were actual citations from TPD.
09:28:33 I was just saying if there is a sort of window, that's

09:28:37 fine.
09:28:37 If not, I need to just go back and tell some of the
09:28:42 establishment owners down there that, you know, that
09:28:45 9:00 is 9:00, and that's what TPD said, and it is what
09:28:49 it is.
09:28:50 That's basically the information that I need to know.
09:28:52 And if you are telling me right now that 9:00 is 9:00
09:28:55 and we are starting on the dot, that's fine, I just
09:28:58 would like to know.
09:28:59 >>ROSE FERLITA: Mr. White, let me just ask you
09:29:02 something.
09:29:02 So your question, I can get more comprehensive
09:29:10 feedback.
09:29:11 Why don't we take that up when, chief, you can get
09:29:16 together with Mr. White.
09:29:17 I don't want this to overshadow Eric's time in the
09:29:20 limelight and maybe we should do it a little bit
09:29:22 longer, if that's okay.
09:29:28 >> Fine.
09:29:29 >>ROSE FERLITA: Eric, if you will sit tight.
09:29:31 We have an additional award that we would like to
09:29:33 give.

09:29:33 And again it is back to you and back to the chief and
09:29:36 back to everybody that represents TPD.
09:29:38 So take some pictures with the camera.
09:29:46 At this point on item 2, Madam Chairman, if I can go
09:29:49 forward with that, I'd like to bring up three ladies
09:29:55 that represent friends of TPD and that's Dr. McClinton
09:30:00 Greco, and Denherst. If they can join me at the
09:30:12 podium.
09:30:13 I am going to ask Linda to give you some history about
09:30:15 what they do and how they formed this team that
09:30:19 assists TPD and anybody that does anything for TPD I
09:30:23 think we are all appreciative of.
09:30:24 It's kind of TPD's separate fund for unfunded wants
09:30:28 and needs.
09:30:29 And you represent what everybody wants to do, to say
09:30:34 thank you to TPD in your own way.
09:30:36 Yours is very effective because it's usually a
09:30:38 financial award.
09:30:39 So Linda, if you would be so kind to give us a brief
09:30:43 history of TPD and how long it's been there and what
09:30:45 you guys have done.
09:30:46 And I do want to tell you before I yield to Linda and

09:30:49 give her the microphone, I kept thinking as we were
09:30:51 going to go into this award, that as we were talking
09:30:54 about Eric's foundation and support behind him, we had
09:30:58 a wonderful, wonderful time in this city under the
09:31:01 administration and under the watch of Dick Greco.
09:31:04 And of course Dick Greco always shared the limelight.
09:31:08 But sometimes I think maybe we were deficient in
09:31:11 saying thank you to Linda on that.
09:31:12 She was the person behind Dick that spurred things to
09:31:16 get done, and was very conscious of what they needed
09:31:20 as a team, as a husband and wife to do for all our
09:31:23 community.
09:31:23 I want to take this opportunity, Linda -- and this was
09:31:27 not prepared -- but it is my pleasure to serve as a
09:31:30 council member under his watch, and I just want to
09:31:32 thank you for what he did, with your help, and that
09:31:35 you guys did as a team.
09:31:36 So that being said, I think this is very effective and
09:31:41 very right on target, because I think Mayor Greco was
09:31:48 so won any supportive of TPD.
09:31:50 And this is all about friends of TPD, and Linda will
09:31:52 come forward and talk a little about that.

09:31:54 And the last thing, I continue to say I am going to
09:31:56 yield.
09:31:57 John, I think you mentioned something awhile back.
09:32:00 I'll be leaving soon so I hope what you talked about
09:32:02 in terms of trying to do something to honor the
09:32:04 wonderful Dick Greco years we can get done before
09:32:07 November.
09:32:07 I would like that.
09:32:08 So Linda, thank you very much.
09:32:13 >>> Linda Greco: I appreciate those words, totally
09:32:16 unnecessary.
09:32:16 In 1996, I was lucky enough to, with another group of
09:32:20 citizens, form friends of TPD.
09:32:23 This was before 9/11, before it was a popular thing to
09:32:27 say thank you to the men and women who put their lives
09:32:29 on the line every single day.
09:32:32 Most of the time, normal citizens only come into
09:32:35 contact with these officers when you're maybe getting
09:32:38 a ticket, because there's no other contact.
09:32:42 But, you know, we take for granted that we sleep at
09:32:44 night because of you.
09:32:47 And what chaos it would be without having each and

09:32:50 every one of you take care of us.
09:32:52 And with that in mind, I wanted to say thank you.
09:32:56 So this group was formed.
09:32:59 And we actually put together about half a million
09:33:03 dollars of funding, in both in-kind and in cash.
09:33:07 And initially it was for the renovation, because, of
09:33:11 course, the building that is across the street, was a
09:33:15 bank building and not a police station, and there
09:33:17 wasn't any funding to revamp that building.
09:33:20 So that was the initial projection, to do that.
09:33:23 We then decided after we finished that, that there was
09:33:27 so much enthusiasm in the community to say thank you,
09:33:29 because people just didn't know how.
09:33:31 And we have money left.
09:33:33 So we said, we are going to go ahead and earmark that
09:33:35 for safety and training.
09:33:37 And so with that in mind, you have gold shield, you
09:33:40 have all these other organizations, that take care of
09:33:42 the officers after something happens.
09:33:44 But we wanted to be preventative and say, let's give
09:33:48 them the training, and the necessary equipment to keep
09:33:50 them alive.

09:33:52 And so to that effect, there's a list that you will be
09:33:56 getting.
09:33:56 We have already funded about $150,000 worth of
09:34:00 equipment, and still have money to go.
09:34:05 This has been done with all volunteers.
09:34:09 We have only spent 2% or less than 2% for
09:34:13 administrative costs.
09:34:14 Everything else goes straight to the officers.
09:34:18 And so thank you, Rose, for this time to explain this
09:34:22 to you.
09:34:23 I know that many people don't even know we exist.
09:34:26 But it's called "friends of TPD" 501(c)3 and we are
09:34:31 here to do even more.
09:34:32 Thank you.
09:34:33 [ Applause ]
09:34:41 >>CHIEF HOGUE: I would like to take the opportunity to
09:34:43 say publicly thank you to Linda and to the
09:34:45 organization of friends for TPD.
09:34:48 You know, like she said, this organization has been in
09:34:53 existence about ten years.
09:34:57 It's one of only four in the nation.
09:34:59 And since the original moneys that were spent on the

09:35:04 renovation of the building, which is $150, that's an
09:35:08 additional $150 for that.
09:35:12 It has been earmarked for training and safety, which
09:35:14 is, you know, not so much safety, but training is
09:35:22 always an issue with the police department.
09:35:23 And they have provided us with training that we
09:35:27 wouldn't have been able to get across the board for a
09:35:31 number of our officers.
09:35:32 And the equipment that they have bought for the police
09:35:35 department, just one that I remember recently, and I
09:35:40 think it's Nomex, the suits that the pilots wear, they
09:35:44 brought Nomex suits for all of our pilots out there
09:35:48 and these are very special suits, flight suits that
09:35:50 they wear that are very fire resistance.
09:35:53 So if the helicopter goes down in a crash this is a
09:35:57 huge safety issue for those officers.
09:36:00 This is something they need, something they wanted to
09:36:02 do, and these are the kinds of things that really they
09:36:04 have done through their whole exist sense of 13 years.
09:36:08 So on behalf of the officers, the men and women that
09:36:10 work at the police department, I want to say thank you
09:36:13 very much.

09:36:15 [ Applause ]
09:36:26 >> Major John Bennett, special operations, Tampa
09:36:29 Police Department.
09:36:30 Most of these unfunded requests for equipment end up
09:36:32 in my division.
09:36:34 In some of the higher liability areas like the chief
09:36:37 mentioned, Nomex suits, bullet-proof vests for our
09:36:43 canine dogs, and I am going to leave a slide version
09:36:47 for everybody to look at the history, not only the
09:36:49 history but the funds provided by the friends of TPD.
09:36:52 One specific thing about the donation that's occurring
09:36:54 today is that through our homeland security funding,
09:36:58 there are certain things that the department can't use
09:37:00 that money for.
09:37:01 And again the money now is going towards the canine
09:37:05 mounted and the tactical response team to provide more
09:37:08 safe equipment for them that we couldn't fund through
09:37:11 the normal processes, and the homeland security money
09:37:14 will allow won't allow certain purchases.
09:37:18 Today that's what their donation is representing.
09:37:20 We also would like to point out that as you enter the
09:37:22 police department, there's a donor's tree, as soon as

09:37:26 you walk in at the escalator, and we would like
09:37:29 anybody who visits the police department for tours or
09:37:32 just for business sake to look at that donor's tree
09:37:35 because it's one of those partnerships in the
09:37:37 community that's through the friends of TPD that shows
09:37:40 the great partnerships that we have in our community
09:37:42 that end up funding some of the things that sometimes
09:37:44 we can't get through the federal program, our local
09:37:48 budget system, or just technology and safety changes
09:37:51 so fast that sometimes when it funding can't Koch up
09:37:57 they close the gap, and the friends of TPD was
09:37:59 pre-positioned to give us $100 when our body armor was
09:38:07 deficient, and if it wasn't for the legal system, was
09:38:10 able to get this money back through legal procurement,
09:38:13 they were able to fund that gap that was very serious
09:38:15 and very critical for our agency.
09:38:17 And they are also looking to close the gap between the
09:38:19 legal mechanisms and the gap in funding that we
09:38:22 realized by having to buy all of these vests almost
09:38:24 overnight because we found they were degrading
09:38:27 rapidly.
09:38:27 So we can't thank them enough, can't thank the

09:38:31 community partners, friends of TPD enough.
09:38:33 We certainly appreciate this donation today.
09:38:35 Thank you.
09:38:38 [ Applause ]
09:38:45 >>> Well, we talked it's a great pleasure that friends
09:38:50 of TPD present to Rose and the chief, and a check for
09:38:56 $22,000.
09:38:58 This represents, in your booklet, I think it's posters
09:39:06 and -- holsters and lasers.
09:39:09 Once again this is just another check.
09:39:10 We have more to go.
09:39:11 And we would like to do these on a regular basis,
09:39:16 maybe every few months for you.
09:39:17 So give us a list of what else you need, because we
09:39:20 still have money in the bank.
09:39:24 And we still are asking the community to join with us
09:39:27 to say thank you.
09:39:27 Because this is the right way to say thank you to our
09:39:30 police department.
09:39:31 [ Applause ]
09:39:34 >>ROSE FERLITA: $23,012.99.
09:39:42 I think Marilyn has a couple of comments.

09:39:45 First I was delighted to hear that we have
09:39:47 bullet-proof vests for our canine team.
09:39:49 That's just wonderful.
09:39:50 And the Nomex suit, if plans go well for me and you
09:39:57 have an extra, I sure could use one in November
09:39:59 probably.
09:40:02 >>> I just wanted to comment that my initial
09:40:04 association with friends of TPD was as the president
09:40:07 of the city-wide neighborhood watch organization.
09:40:10 And all the support that we provided was through that
09:40:13 venue.
09:40:15 I continued to work on behalf of -- and even though I
09:40:19 am not in that position anymore -- with friends of
09:40:23 TPD, would like to ask and encourage all the
09:40:25 organizations in Tampa to please keep this
09:40:27 organization in mind when they have funds that they
09:40:32 perhaps would like to donate to something.
09:40:34 There's nothing more worthy than keeping our men and
09:40:36 women in uniform safe.
09:40:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have a question.
09:40:41 Marilyn, or Dr. Linda, since you have the camera, the
09:40:46 opportunity of the camera, what's the best way to get

09:40:49 in touch with friends of TPD in terms of folks out
09:40:52 there who might be watching and might want to make a
09:40:54 donation?
09:40:56 Should they call the police department, or contact you
09:40:59 all directly?
09:41:01 >>> As I said, we don't have staff.
09:41:03 We do this all with volunteers.
09:41:05 So I will give you my office phone number and handle
09:41:09 it out of there.
09:41:10 813-286-4404.
09:41:14 And once again, 98.8% of your money goes straight to
09:41:21 the police department.
09:41:24 We do this through our heart.
09:41:26 Please call and we would welcome your participation.
09:41:30 And thank you very much for the opportunity.
09:41:31 >> 813-286-4404.
09:41:44 >>ROSE FERLITA: Thank you for your indulgence but this
09:41:46 is such an important issue.
09:41:49 Thank you.
09:41:54 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a special guest with us this
09:42:09 morning and the team of preservation.
09:42:13 They are members of the entrepreneur program for the

09:42:18 Stroh city CBC, provides real life employment
09:42:22 experience with literacy.
09:42:29 Will you please stand?
09:42:29 Is there a spokesperson for the group?
09:42:31 Do we have a spokesperson?
09:42:45 >>> Good morning.
09:42:46 My name is Lee Roy Selmon.
09:42:50 And I work with the CDC program in the capacity of
09:42:55 somewhat of a volunteer, and help the young people.
09:42:59 And I do whatever that I can do in order to help them
09:43:03 to explore other avenues of employment and different
09:43:09 areas in the city that provides an avenue of escape
09:43:14 out of whatever situations that they may be in.
09:43:17 And these young men and women who are do a very, very
09:43:21 good job in trying to obtain whatever information that
09:43:25 is available to them.
09:43:26 And our purpose, team preservation, is an
09:43:30 entrepreneurial program that is sponsored by the
09:43:33 central city CDC, is operated by its membership with
09:43:36 the direction of CDC staff.
09:43:39 This program focuses on the inner city youth of Tampa
09:43:43 and provides real-life employment experiences with an

09:43:46 emphasis on financial lit ras you I.
09:43:49 Our goal -- literacy.
09:43:51 Our goal is to provide the teens needed in life,
09:43:57 skills and good work ethic.
09:44:00 It teens are required to complete an employment
09:44:04 application and sponsor a personal interview, the
09:44:08 basic financial skills include writing checks and
09:44:11 balancing a checkbook.
09:44:12 Accomplishments: The TFP has served more than 200
09:44:17 teens between the ages of 10 and 18 throughout the
09:44:19 past six years.
09:44:20 This program has thrived for excellency and as a
09:44:25 result was a recipient of the business of the year
09:44:27 award for keeping Hillsborough County beautiful.
09:44:31 This same standard results in TFP's present
09:44:36 organization in central city CDC, received the
09:44:39 neighborhood excellence award from Bank of America.
09:44:43 Our summer program, some of the highlights included a
09:44:48 tour of the classrooms and dormitory facilities at the
09:44:52 University of South Florida, visit to the Florida
09:44:56 Aquarium, movies, bowling, and playing basketball.
09:44:58 The program concluded with a back-to-school dance at

09:45:03 the YMCA.
09:45:04 We are very grateful and look forward to working with
09:45:07 our partners, Hartline, public transportation and the
09:45:11 YMCA.
09:45:13 And we thank all of you for allowing us the
09:45:15 opportunity to come down here to see how the City of
09:45:19 Tampa business is run.
09:45:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
09:45:25 Before you all leave, we have some souvenirs for you
09:45:28 at the reception desk, if you go out the door and turn
09:45:31 to your left.
09:45:32 We have some souvenirs for all the teens.
09:45:37 [ Applause ]
09:45:41 >>> Marshall, central city CDC.
09:45:44 I want to thank councilwoman, Gwen Miller, for
09:45:48 allowing us the opportunity to come in.
09:45:50 Our kids this year decided we have, in our program,
09:45:55 teen leaders that have been on for more than a year,
09:45:59 and they have decided that this year, they are going
09:46:03 to be identifying their career goals, looking at
09:46:06 things, at careers that are out there. And government
09:46:11 is one of the things that they wanted to do.

09:46:13 And when I told that to councilwoman, chairwoman Gwen
09:46:18 Miller, she said, great.
09:46:20 I'm so happy.
09:46:21 And I thank you all for allowing us this opportunity
09:46:23 to see how government operates.
09:46:27 Thank you.
09:46:29 [ Applause ]
09:46:30 >>GWEN MILLER: We have some more teens visiting us
09:46:38 this morning.
09:46:40 Will you please stand?
09:46:41 Do you have a spokesperson?
09:46:51 >>> Good morning.
09:46:53 My name is Connie Simms.
09:46:55 I live in the Watch Hill neighborhood.
09:46:59 And we are hear to support a facility in our
09:47:01 neighborhood called the Dallas house.
09:47:05 The Dallas house has been in operation for the last
09:47:08 seven years.
09:47:09 It was founded and donated by our director and our
09:47:16 fund-raiser.
09:47:19 The Dallas house has provided several services over
09:47:23 the past few years, such as tutorial service for the

09:47:27 children, Spanish literacy, G.E.D. programs.
09:47:32 I'm here to continue -- to presentations of community
09:47:39 support.
09:47:40 We talk about academic success of our children.
09:47:43 And I believe that the community is a big part of
09:47:46 that.
09:47:50 Before academic success, the child, the parent, and
09:47:55 the school, the teacher.
09:47:57 But I believe that the community support is truly,
09:48:02 truly important in that because we can build the
09:48:05 spirit of giving back to the community.
09:48:11 Today we have a field trip to better understand City
09:48:15 Council for or our children, and we'll go back and
09:48:18 discuss that with them.
09:48:21 And we'll give you more details in terms of the future
09:48:24 vision.
09:48:37 >>> Thank you for giving us a few minutes to talk
09:48:39 about the Dallas house in the watch hill neighborhood,
09:48:46 which is actually a smaller section within the East
09:48:48 Tampa business and civic association, but it was sort
09:48:52 of a little watch hill mini-neighborhood that started
09:48:56 doing things separately as a community, came together

09:49:00 and decided we needed something in that area for the
09:49:03 children in the and the Dallas house was formed out of
09:49:07 a vacant property that probably would have become
09:49:10 another drug house.
09:49:11 We are here basically, as a lot of people who are here
09:49:17 before you to do, we are here to ask for money, we are
09:49:19 here to ask for City Council and any other members of
09:49:23 Tampa city staff to help us look for funding to keep
09:49:26 the program afloat.
09:49:27 We have a vision that is not fully realized yet.
09:49:31 But we started with the kids who at least are showing
09:49:35 up, indicating that they want to do something positive
09:49:38 with their lives.
09:49:39 And we feel like with an intergenerational approach,
09:49:43 meaning that we can work with the young people, we can
09:49:46 work with teens, we can work with young adults, we
09:49:48 have a lot of juvenile ex-offenders in our community,
09:49:52 we have a lot of adult ex-offenders in our community,
09:49:56 and we want to be able to create sort of a seed pot
09:50:00 program where people can come in and use our
09:50:03 facilities and facilities of our partners for the
09:50:05 kinds of services that they need.

09:50:07 So we are asking for your support.
09:50:09 And if anybody wants to write a letter endorsing the
09:50:13 fact that we are trying to bring those types of
09:50:15 services into watch hill, we are more than happy to
09:50:18 have that.
09:50:19 And we really want to thank Councilman White, a
09:50:24 memorandum to budget director Jim Stefan, asking if he
09:50:27 could help us look for funding.
09:50:32 And we are also asking City Council, please take a
09:50:35 look at our program.
09:50:36 Come by and visit anytime, call us up, stop in, and we
09:50:39 are more than happy to show you what we are trying to
09:50:41 do.
09:50:42 And we appreciate the time, Chairman Miller, to
09:50:45 address council.
09:50:46 If you have any questions, please give us a call.
09:50:49 Thank you.
09:50:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank your thank you for come.
09:50:52 We need to approve the agenda.
09:50:56 We have a motion.
09:50:57 Would anybody like to pull anything from the agenda?
09:51:00 >> Move approval.

09:51:06 >> Second.
09:51:06 (Motion carried).
09:51:07 >>GWEN MILLER: We go to our staff reports.
09:51:09 Ms. Cathy Coyle.
09:51:19 >>GLORIA MOREDA: Cathy asked me to request that
09:51:22 council set a workshop for the Channel District and
09:51:26 the TPD bonus periphery, criteria ordinance that she's
09:51:32 prepared.
09:51:34 She'd like it for August 31st at 11 or 130,
09:51:40 council's convenience, in council chambers.
09:51:42 And then she would, upon review of the ordinance, she
09:51:45 could then transmit it to the Planning Commission in
09:51:49 September.
09:51:52 >>MARY ALVAREZ: So moved, August 31st.
09:51:55 >>GWEN MILLER: At 11.
09:51:57 Motion and second.
09:51:57 (Motion carried)
09:52:02 Stay there and do yours.
09:52:05 >>> I have two young ladies from Germany, if they
09:52:07 could stand or come forward.
09:52:08 I want to introduce them to council.
09:52:10 They are interns that have been working with the city.

09:52:13 Rebecca shoreman and Rebecca Cox, both attending the
09:52:20 university of Prague in Germany.
09:52:23 And seek ago degree in public administration.
09:52:25 And over the last month and a half, I think, they have
09:52:28 been working with Stuart Campbell in housing, and also
09:52:32 Rebecca in the Parks Department.
09:52:36 I just wanted council to meet them.
09:52:39 And they are going to be watching you today.
09:52:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Welcome.
09:52:54 >> Mr. David Smith.
09:52:59 >>DAVID SMITH: I have a new one.
09:53:16 David Smith, city attorney.
09:53:17 I wanted to appear before you to indicate, I am going
09:53:20 to be requesting, unfortunately not until August
09:53:24 3rd, that we continue the proposed scheduling of
09:53:28 the historic preservation ordinance.
09:53:31 And the reason I wanted to come down here today is
09:53:33 because there are many interested parties in this
09:53:36 ordinance.
09:53:36 And I wanted to make sure that when they are making
09:53:41 travel plans I have advance notice.
09:53:43 I know you can't officially continue it until it comes

09:53:45 before you August 3rd.
09:53:46 But I will not have an ordinance for you that day.
09:53:49 And I'll give you a also bit of background on it.
09:53:52 There are a plethora of people who want to be involved
09:53:55 in this process and that's good.
09:53:57 But I want to have an opportunity to hear from them
09:53:59 directly and to workshop it informally, and to get all
09:54:02 that input so you're not sorting through that here.
09:54:06 We need to take your time and use it much more wisely
09:54:10 than that.
09:54:10 So we will be doing that.
09:54:11 And I will be scheduling meetings.
09:54:13 I have been communicating with Ms. Johnson who you all
09:54:16 know is very interested in this area.
09:54:18 She will be one of the participants.
09:54:20 David Mechanik is interested.
09:54:22 John Grandoff is also indicated his interest, in I
09:54:27 believe historic preservation trust.
09:54:29 There's plenty of people.
09:54:30 So we will be getting a variety of input.
09:54:34 It's also important to try to get this scheduled
09:54:38 without waiting too long, because the cigar factory

09:54:42 issue is being postponed, has been postponed pending
09:54:45 this.
09:54:45 I do not want these property owners to be deferred too
09:54:49 long.
09:54:49 We need to get this ordinance sorted out and process
09:54:52 determined so that they can also have appropriate
09:54:55 determinations for their property.
09:54:57 I spoke with the attorney representing these property
09:54:59 owners.
09:55:00 I was going to be recommending we defer this to
09:55:02 September 21st.
09:55:03 Again, you can't officially do that till August
09:55:06 3rd.
09:55:07 But I was going to pick that date because it was
09:55:09 between the budget hearings.
09:55:10 Unfortunately Mr. Grandoff cannot be here that day.
09:55:12 And I certainly have no problems moving it to October
09:55:17 5th, because it's really to make sure these
09:55:20 property owners don't remain in limbo unnecessarily
09:55:23 long.
09:55:23 And he's willing to go with October 5th.
09:55:26 Again I am not asking you to take any action today

09:55:28 because you can't.
09:55:30 It's set for a time certain, August 3rd, actually
09:55:33 at 1:30.
09:55:34 But we will be here that day.
09:55:36 We will provide you an update on the local government
09:55:41 certificates program but we won't have the ordinance.
09:55:44 So all those people interested in participating will
09:55:46 be able to make appropriate plans.
09:55:48 And anyone else out there who is interested in
09:55:50 commenting on it, please give me a call.
09:55:52 We do want the input.
09:55:54 We do want to get that done as quickly and
09:55:56 expeditiously as possible.
09:55:57 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Mr. Smith, without giving away too
09:56:02 much, in your assessment, is progress being made
09:56:07 towards some middle ground, or are we just still far
09:56:12 apart and we don't know what's going to happen here?
09:56:16 >>DAVID SMITH: I think some progress is being made.
09:56:17 I think there's going to be some fundamental things
09:56:21 that are going to occur and there's nothing we can do.
09:56:24 We can bring that to you clearly and decisively and
09:56:27 you as legislators are going to have to make that call

09:56:30 but I would like to clear away as much debris as
09:56:32 possible so I think we can present something to you a
09:56:35 little more succinct with the information you need to
09:56:38 make an informed decision.
09:56:40 >>SHAWN HARRISON: We need to make sure the folks who
09:56:42 we are going to fly down for this like happened last
09:56:45 time, this is not going to happen on August 3rd,
09:56:47 save your money, we'll let now when it's going to
09:56:49 happen.
09:56:50 >> Yes, sir.
09:56:51 And it looks like October 5th.
09:56:53 That will be decided August 3rd the precise
09:56:55 extension.
09:56:55 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Okay.
09:56:57 >>DAVID SMITH: Thank you very much.
09:56:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Julie Cole.
09:57:01 >>JULIA COLE: I will address you from up here if
09:57:04 that's okay.
09:57:05 Thank you for the opportunity to sit up here with you.
09:57:08 I submitted to council -- as you may recall in the
09:57:15 Kress square designations a request, a statute was
09:57:19 failed.

09:57:19 We have gone through that process.
09:57:21 And I submitted another one yesterday, the response of
09:57:25 the special master.
09:57:26 We need to go ahead and have that scheduled to be
09:57:28 heard by you.
09:57:29 It will not be heard by you today.
09:57:30 And I am requesting that that be scheduled to be heard
09:57:33 by you on August 3rd.
09:57:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll move to schedule August
09:57:39 3rd.
09:57:40 Will that be a public hearing?
09:57:42 Or will there be an opportunity for public input?
09:57:46 What is the process?
09:57:48 >>JULIA COLE: It wouldn't technically be scheduled as
09:57:50 a public hearing because what is coming in front of
09:57:52 you is the recommendation of the special master and I
09:57:55 will be presenting you to you, the process, whichever
09:58:01 of you wishes to approve that, that's what you will be
09:58:04 doing.
09:58:04 However the process calls for certain members of the
09:58:06 public who have filed proper notification to be
09:58:09 involved in the process, if they have -- or members of

09:58:14 the public who have, they would then have the
09:58:16 opportunity to speak to that issue.
09:58:18 It wouldn't be necessarily open to the public.
09:58:20 However, at the time that this comes before you, if
09:58:23 council chooses to open it up for additional comments,
09:58:26 that would be council's determination.
09:58:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I can't recall from the situation
09:58:35 to this -- I don't remember it.
09:58:40 Could you meet with all the council members ahead of
09:58:42 time and bring us up to speed on what this process is
09:58:45 like?
09:58:45 And secondly, do you think it would be valuable to
09:58:47 have any kind of public discussion just prior to this?
09:58:53 Or is this council session going to be the public
09:58:57 discussion?
09:58:58 Because if it is, I think it might be valuable to take
09:59:00 the 1:30 slot that we are planning on spending on
09:59:04 preservation and schedule this at 1:30.
09:59:07 Because that is going to be a long discussion.
09:59:08 >>JULIA COLE: The answer to the first question, yes, I
09:59:12 intend to schedule time with council members to
09:59:14 discuss the process and discuss what will be coming in

09:59:17 front of you.
09:59:22 I believe there may be additional discussion as Mr.
09:59:25 Smith indicated, that there will be discussion of the
09:59:28 local government.
09:59:29 I don't know if that will be at 1:30 but we can
09:59:31 schedule the 1:30 time.
09:59:35 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Yes, I agree with Ms. Saul-Sena, that
09:59:38 I believe this is going to be a long discussion.
09:59:46 I'm looking at the August 3rd, 1:30, will be the
09:59:49 continued initiation of local landmark process.
10:00:09 >> Would you like to call it the Kress --
10:00:12 >>> Kress.
10:00:13 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion say Aye.
10:00:15 Opposed, Nay.
10:00:18 Motion carried.
10:00:19 We go to item 3.
10:00:20 Anyone here from administration to talk about the
10:00:24 signs?
10:00:25 >>THE CLERK: We received a memo on that.
10:00:36 >>> We request a continuance because we have not been
10:00:38 able to meet with the commercial businesses in the
10:00:40 area.

10:00:40 We have met with the residents.
10:00:42 We did so on June 26th.
10:00:44 They felt it was an important part to be able to meet
10:00:46 with the business community as well before we
10:00:49 implemented any restrictions in the area.
10:00:51 And we were having ongoing discussions at that time.
10:00:55 >> Madam Chairman?
10:01:00 Mr. LaMotte, is the city exploring at all the option
10:01:03 of having some kind of parking at someplace kind of
10:01:10 off-site and having some kind of circulator on Howard
10:01:16 Avenue, so that it would relieve, for example --
10:01:20 there's a bank at the corner of Howard and Kennedy.
10:01:23 And they have a large parking lot that I assume isn't
10:01:26 used on a Thursday, Friday or Saturday night.
10:01:28 That there could be like off-site parking and
10:01:31 circulator that helps with the parking problem.
10:01:39 Is that part of your conversation?
10:01:43 >>ROY LAMOTTE: Yes.
10:01:44 We are absolutely going to entertain those
10:01:46 conversation was the business community.
10:01:47 We believe part of the solution here, and we are going
10:01:49 to entertain any off-site parking capability that we

10:01:52 can.
10:01:53 And that's one of the recommendations that we are
10:01:55 going to try to get things to buy in to.
10:01:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I just wanted to express my
10:02:01 appreciation to Mr. LaMotte and your staff.
10:02:03 I have been getting the e-mails and seeing the
10:02:05 progress that you all are doing and the work you are
10:02:06 putting into it.
10:02:07 We appreciate it.
10:02:08 I know the Soho folks and the Courier City folks
10:02:11 appreciate it, too.
10:02:12 Thank you.
10:02:14 >>ROSE FERLITA: Let me express my -- thank you for you
10:02:18 moving this on.
10:02:18 I think we are talking about the same meeting at
10:02:24 Starbuck's.
10:02:25 I think it's important to continue it a little bit
10:02:27 because we want to have some sort of cooperative
10:02:30 resolution to this, with -- that the business
10:02:34 community is happy with it and at the same time Mr.
10:02:36 Crumbly and his neighbors, et cetera, can get some
10:02:38 relief from what we are doing.

10:02:39 I think in order to have a very comprehensive plan to
10:02:41 go forward, I think you're right, needs a little more
10:02:46 time to get to where we need to be.
10:02:49 >> We'll be back to you shortly with a comprehensive
10:02:54 plan.
10:02:57 >>ROY LAMOTTE: I know it sounds long but I would
10:03:00 actually like to ask you for four weeks, because of
10:03:02 the difficulty of trying to get business people that
10:03:04 may be on vacation at this time together with us.
10:03:09 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second to continue
10:03:11 item number 3 for four weeks.
10:03:12 (Motion carried)
10:03:15 Item number 4.
10:03:23 >>GLORIA MOREDA: Land development
10:03:35 My apologies, I thought we were doing number 5.
10:03:39 >> Bayshore first.
10:03:41 >>> I just want to let council know what progress we
10:03:43 are making in our office.
10:03:45 Heather Lamboy is going to be the lead planner in
10:03:48 developing the study for the Bayshore area.
10:03:58 We were successful in finding some of the documents
10:04:00 that Mrs. Saul-Sena pointed out in terms of the

10:04:04 Planning Commission library.
10:04:05 She is also -- identified August 10th as the date
10:04:11 we are going to have the workshop at the Kate Jackson
10:04:14 rec center.
10:04:15 And it will be August 10th from 6 to 8 p.m. where
10:04:18 we are hoping to seek public input on the vision of
10:04:22 Bayshore.
10:04:23 Speaking with David Smith, we have felt that in our
10:04:29 office to really strengthen the proposal to develop
10:04:33 the plans for the Bayshore overlay that it will be
10:04:37 important to establish those parameters in the
10:04:39 comprehensive plan.
10:04:41 And I know that we had talked with the neighborhood
10:04:45 groups that are supportive of the efforts, that they
10:04:49 want to do this quickly, and I think council and the
10:04:52 mayor's office has expressed a desire to have this
10:04:54 done rather quickly.
10:04:56 Six months.
10:04:57 To do the amendments through the comprehensive plan we
10:05:01 are anticipating it will probably take about nine
10:05:04 months.
10:05:05 Not much longer.

10:05:06 But I think in that effort it will be a much stronger
10:05:09 ability for us to develop land development regulations
10:05:15 that we need to guide growth along the Bayshore.
10:05:20 David Smith is here to answer any questions in that
10:05:24 regard, and I'm here to get council approval.
10:05:32 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
10:05:34 I know you folks realize this but maybe some of the
10:05:36 viewers do not.
10:05:37 One of the advantages of a comp plan is it's fairly
10:05:41 debatable, it's a much easier test to meet.
10:05:44 Essentially the case law says if there's any reason
10:05:46 for what you have done and your comp plan changes it's
10:05:49 sustainable.
10:05:50 So legally, it's a much easier test.
10:05:53 As you know, rezoning, it's substantial, competent
10:05:57 evidence, and it can be a harder battle to sustain
10:06:00 sometimes.
10:06:01 So it's both a lesser threshold, plus it's more
10:06:05 palatable.
10:06:06 Because when it's in the comp plan, you cannot have
10:06:09 zonings contrary to the comp plan.
10:06:12 You can rezone, if you overlay simply a rezoning.

10:06:16 So it has much more efficacy in terms of what you are
10:06:20 trying to accomplish.
10:06:21 Lastly, if someone were to come in with a small-scale
10:06:24 plan amendment it requires a super majority which
10:06:28 means five of you.
10:06:29 So if the goal is to protect the Bayshore, that's a
10:06:31 more effective way to do it.
10:06:33 The extra three months, just from a personal opinion,
10:06:36 I don't think is too high a price to pay.
10:06:40 I think we can get there very quickly and I think we
10:06:42 will be successful.
10:06:44 I just want to give you that additional background.
10:06:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: David, I couldn't agree with you
10:06:49 more.
10:06:49 I kind of always envisioned that this would be sort of
10:06:52 a two-pronged approach in the comp plan as well as in
10:06:54 our zoning code.
10:06:56 I don't know if that's been the discussion that you
10:07:00 would put in the both.
10:07:01 I would hope so.
10:07:03 We will ultimately have to have land development
10:07:05 regulations implemented.

10:07:07 Some of the provisions perhaps.
10:07:10 >>> It depends on what happens with the comp plan.
10:07:12 I think the only question as to whether you proceed
10:07:15 now with the overlay is one of governmental resources.
10:07:18 I think if we are within three months of accomplishing
10:07:21 all of what we would accomplish in a comp plan rather
10:07:23 than an overlay, given all the other things we have
10:07:26 got going on, some of which we are going to be
10:07:28 bringing to you very shortly, and you will be somewhat
10:07:31 surprised.
10:07:32 I think that might be the most efficient way to do it.
10:07:34 And I don't think we have any likely candidates in the
10:07:37 interim.
10:07:38 I know of only one possible, and that's operating a
10:07:42 restaurant.
10:07:43 The other applications have been filed and dealt with
10:07:47 by the council.
10:07:48 So ultimately, we are envisioning comp plan first.
10:07:51 Any implementing regulations, if necessary, second,
10:07:55 rather than, you know, just trying to capture that
10:07:58 three-month differential with an overlay.
10:08:00 And you should realize, too, I think, zoning staff, in

10:08:04 your overall comp plan.
10:08:05 We are not going to wait for the update.
10:08:07 We are going to do this as a city initiated plan.
10:08:09 But in the overall comp plan, one of the things we are
10:08:12 going to try to do is address the issue of overlays
10:08:16 and address that in the comp plan, and not have as
10:08:19 many zoning overlays as we have, but just to be a
10:08:22 little bit of a patchwork is my understanding, a
10:08:24 little bit of a difficult process to apply.
10:08:27 >> While we are talking about it, I just wanted to
10:08:30 recognize several ladies in the back that have
10:08:33 initiated this effort in the Bayshore overlay district
10:08:37 committee, and thank them for their continued efforts.
10:08:41 And I know they are working with staff on this.
10:08:43 And I also wanted to reiterate for anybody who is
10:08:46 watching, I received recently ---and I'm sure other
10:08:50 council members have received phone calls from up and
10:08:52 down the Bayshore, various condos and other residents,
10:08:55 who are very, very excited about this effort.
10:08:58 And I just wanted to remind them what Gloria said,
10:09:01 that we'll have a meeting at Kate Jackson on August
10:09:04 10th at 6 p.m., and I'm sure we'll do some

10:09:07 advertising.
10:09:07 Maybe we can roll it on the channel 15 and that sort
10:09:11 of thing.
10:09:15 >>GLORIA MOREDA: I did want to say that, council, if
10:09:19 you would like a workshop discussion on the progress
10:09:22 we have made, maybe in mid to late October, because
10:09:26 we'll be submitting it to the Planning Commission in
10:09:28 November, that might be something you might want to
10:09:31 schedule on the agenda.
10:09:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I am always -- I think that Mr.
10:09:40 Smith's idea of putting this as part of our comp plan
10:09:43 is the way to go.
10:09:44 I hate the extra time.
10:09:46 And I would like your response whether it can impose a
10:09:53 short moratorium until we are able to get this done,
10:09:56 whether that would be appropriate.
10:09:57 I know it's been used in the past specifically on
10:09:59 Bayshore, specifically to look at this issue, 25 years
10:10:01 ago or more.
10:10:02 But I think that there might be some validity to that.
10:10:05 >>DAVID SMITH: We will look at that and see what we
10:10:10 can do.

10:10:10 The one we did most recently as you know is with
10:10:14 respect to JLUS there. Were specific concerns,
10:10:20 homeland security concerns and also the study was what
10:10:22 substantially along the path.
10:10:24 We may be substantially along the path with regard to
10:10:27 Bayshore, I don't know.
10:10:28 So it's typically fact driven.
10:10:31 I need to find out what the facts are and if we can I
10:10:35 will bring that back to you very quickly.
10:10:37 >> Do you need a motion to that effect or will you all
10:10:39 just bring it back?
10:10:40 >> It would probably be better for council to make a
10:10:43 motion so I have direction from council to look at the
10:10:45 possibility of a brief abatement process.
10:10:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
10:10:52 >> Second.
10:10:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
10:10:54 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I am not going to support it.
10:10:57 There's a reason, a specific reason for a moratorium
10:11:04 for JLUS.
10:11:05 I think that is a very scary word to be throwing
10:11:07 around and I'm not even going to support you looking

10:11:09 at that as an option.
10:11:11 I think that what we are doing with the comp plan
10:11:14 amendment is fine.
10:11:15 I think that's widely supported.
10:11:20 Let's skin this cat an and if we start throwing around
10:11:23 other options, I think we take it in a very different
10:11:26 direction.
10:11:30 >>ROSE FERLITA: Going back to what we are trying to do
10:11:32 in terms of an overlay, David, I'm sorry, I am a
10:11:36 little confused.
10:11:37 When is the next time ware going to discuss that
10:11:40 issue?
10:11:41 >>DAVID SMITH: Where we are going next, I believe Ms.
10:11:44 Moreda indicated to you she will be back in November
10:11:46 with a report of what progress has been made with
10:11:48 regard to the comp plan amendment.
10:11:50 So what you are referring to as a zoning overlay, will
10:11:54 really be a comp plan amendment, a city initiated comp
10:11:57 plan amendment, which will address the entire length
10:12:00 of the Bayshore, in whatever the appropriate way is.
10:12:04 So it will be a comp plan as opposed to a overlay.
10:12:09 >>ROSE FERLITA: I don't mean to throw a wrench in this

10:12:11 and maybe I won't have the opportunity to.
10:12:13 I have done some extensive research on some issues
10:12:15 that have come up in the past.
10:12:17 Not prepared to discuss it today because I didn't have
10:12:19 enough time to do that specific homework.
10:12:22 Is that something that perhaps, if what I find is
10:12:26 important enough I can discuss it next week?
10:12:28 Or what?
10:12:31 >>> Council is always free, and any individual council
10:12:33 member is always free to bring issues up easily, yes,
10:12:36 ma'am.
10:12:37 I mean, you're talking about particularly your
10:12:39 legislative function.
10:12:40 >>ROSE FERLITA: Right.
10:12:41 But I think that there's some things that we haven't
10:12:43 looked at as we go forward on this overlay district.
10:12:46 And again, I'm not prepared to make presentation if
10:12:49 I'm not prepared.
10:12:50 But I think there's some things that should weigh into
10:12:53 this.
10:12:53 And I would like to do some more of that research and
10:12:56 perhaps bring it up under new business or old

10:12:58 business, because I think it is very germane to what
10:13:01 we are talking about.
10:13:01 >> And I think I could tell you that the staff will
10:13:06 commence the comp plan amendment immediately anyway,
10:13:08 because that's the best way to protect it.
10:13:11 If council still wants to go forward with an overlay
10:13:13 in the interim, then that's what council decides.
10:13:17 But I think the administration also wants to have it
10:13:19 in the comp plan.
10:13:20 And I think you do as well.
10:13:22 So I guess the question is whether you want to move
10:13:26 forward on two fronts or not.
10:13:28 And I think what I hear you say is you may.
10:13:30 >> I would really like to finalize the research I have
10:13:33 been doing because Bayshore is close to my home and is
10:13:36 important to all of us. But I would like maybe a
10:13:39 little more research, meet with you, and if it has
10:13:41 anything that is of any significant input, then I
10:13:45 would like to bring it up next week.
10:13:46 And I don't really know if that stops what we are
10:13:49 doing today, ladies and gentlemen.
10:13:50 I don't know.

10:13:51 But I think it's very important and I apologize.
10:13:53 I just had too many things to do this past week.
10:13:55 I don't want to give a report with something that's
10:13:58 just not --
10:14:00 >> There's a lot going on.
10:14:02 >> I know.
10:14:03 And that's okay, we can meet, David.
10:14:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Did you say you met with the neighbors
10:14:08 on this?
10:14:09 >>DAVID SMITH: We just briefly talked as -- with one
10:14:12 of the representatives beforehand, and their concern
10:14:14 is that the Bayshore is protected.
10:14:16 And that it is done in a manner that is effective as
10:14:20 possible and is enforceable, as enforceable as
10:14:23 possible:
10:14:27 I wouldn't want to say I have spoken with all the
10:14:29 neighbors but the people we spoke to were very
10:14:32 favorably inclined with the comp plan amendment
10:14:34 because it has the attractions I just articulated.
10:14:39 >> I guess what I would like to hear -- and we can
10:14:41 talk about this privately, you and me -- is if there's
10:14:44 any down-side to include it in both -- I definitely

10:14:48 want to include it in the comp plan.
10:14:51 I thought it was the original intent.
10:14:53 Also included in the zoning code.
10:14:54 But I'm being right up front.
10:14:56 I think we can put it in the zoning code before we
10:14:58 even have the comp plan amendments done, because it
10:15:01 wouldn't be inconsistent with the comp plan.
10:15:05 The comp plan amendments would really enhance and
10:15:07 bolster the changes we could make to the zoning code.
10:15:11 You and I can discuss it. 69 any other questions?
10:15:16 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I don't know what we are voting on.
10:15:18 Is this on a moratorium?
10:15:20 Or is this on a two-pronged approach to look at the
10:15:23 comp plan -- I mean the zoning code??
10:15:28 >> The only motion on the floor as I understood it was
10:15:30 for legal to look into a possibility of some kind of
10:15:33 abatement in the interim if we go with the comp plan.
10:15:35 That's the only motion on the floor.
10:15:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And that would be to report back.
10:15:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes, that would be to report back
10:15:44 in three weeks?
10:15:48 >>DAVID SMITH: That would be fine.

10:15:50 Or two if I can get it.
10:15:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Harrison, I assume there will
10:15:54 be another one.
10:15:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Clearly I think the intent of the
10:16:02 motion is just to --
10:16:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Until we get some other regulation.
10:16:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But also ask our staff to do the
10:16:09 research.
10:16:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It might take three months to get
10:16:12 an abatement done, in which case is kind of not
10:16:17 generally worth doing.
10:16:18 >>GWEN MILLER: All right.
10:16:20 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
10:16:21 Opposed, Nay.
10:16:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The subsequent motion would be to
10:16:36 ask the staff to look into doing a comp plan and
10:16:38 zoning changes to implement some sort of land use
10:16:40 change along Bayshore.
10:16:42 And I'm looking at October.
10:16:44 On October 19th, we don't have a night meeting.
10:16:46 So I would like to schedule a staff report on October
10:16:49 19th at 10 a.m.

10:16:52 >> Second.
10:16:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Maybe at the beginning of the
10:16:54 meeting under staff reports.
10:16:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Staff reports.
10:16:58 Motion and second.
10:17:00 >> We are scheduling a special meeting.
10:17:05 >> At 9:00.
10:17:06 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I thought you were scheduling a
10:17:10 night meeting.
10:17:10 >>GWEN MILLER: In a, saying we don't have one.
10:17:19 >>MARY ALVAREZ: On August 10th we won't be here.
10:17:23 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion on the floor.
10:17:24 We have a motion and second on the floor.
10:17:25 (Motion carried)
10:17:27 Okay, Ms. Alvarez.
10:17:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Gloria, you picked that date August
10:17:33 10th.
10:17:33 But council will be out of town.
10:17:35 Some council members might want to attend at Kate
10:17:38 Jackson.
10:17:40 >>GLORIA MOREDA: Okay.
10:17:41 I can check with Heather.

10:17:43 Would you all be able to attend, some of you?
10:17:47 >>ROSE FERLITA: Any of thaws would like to attend.
10:17:49 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to rescind that motion then.
10:17:53 >>GLORIA MOREDA: I know she sent out a notice to a
10:17:55 number of people that that she knows would -- knows
10:17:59 would be interested in attending.
10:18:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: A week later would be fine.
10:18:02 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 5.
10:18:08 >> Good morning, assistant city attorney Toyin AINA
10:18:14 Hargrett.
10:18:15 You asked us to take a look at the doggy dining law.
10:18:22 The reason it's called the doggy dining law is it
10:18:24 permits a mechanism under which dog owners can attend
10:18:28 restaurants with their dogs.
10:18:29 The local control act, what it does is it provides an
10:18:32 exemption from the food and drug administration's
10:18:35 code, which prohibits dogs in restaurants.
10:18:38 The way that this program works is that it's
10:18:42 completely discretionary.
10:18:43 Local governments can choose to enact an ordinance
10:18:48 which must be in the Land Development Code, and the
10:18:53 act provides for certain permit requirements but we

10:18:56 have to include in that code should we choose to adopt
10:18:59 it, St. Petersburg has enacted a law on Thursday of
10:19:07 last week, pursuant to this new legislation.
10:19:10 So it would be entirely up to you, council, whether or
10:19:12 not the city is engaged in providing a mechanism.
10:19:17 Just so you know, it is a three-year pilot program and
10:19:21 it does sunset on July 1st of 2009.
10:19:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I was thinking about we would be
10:19:33 chasing our tail on this issue.
10:19:38 Is there anyone in the audience here that -- anyway,
10:19:45 the -- in all seriousness, I like what the legislature
10:19:50 did.
10:19:50 I think -- and just to explain the law a little bit.
10:19:55 There was some confusion last time it came up about
10:19:58 this law mandates, you know, all restaurants to allow
10:20:01 dogs in the restaurant.
10:20:02 And what it does, it allows restaurants who want to
10:20:08 participate to allow dogs in their outdoor patio
10:20:13 areas.
10:20:14 And they have to come in and do a permit application
10:20:17 to be part of that process.
10:20:19 In that way there can be extra inspection or whatever.

10:20:24 There are some parts of town, and there are some
10:20:26 restaurants, that I think might want to take advantage
10:20:28 of this.
10:20:29 I can envision perhaps out on Davis Island where folks
10:20:34 do have the patio eating at the restaurants, and there
10:20:37 might be some other places, Ybor or Seminole Heights
10:20:40 or anywhere in town, where there might be patio
10:20:43 restaurants where the restaurant owner might make the
10:20:46 decision that these patrons might like this.
10:20:48 And, therefore, I think we should, you know, give them
10:20:52 the option, give them the choice, give the restaurant
10:20:54 owners the choice and the freedom to make that
10:20:56 decision themselves.
10:20:58 >> I agree.
10:20:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mary, Thank you.
10:21:03 So with that I'll go ahead and make a motion directing
10:21:06 staff to draft an ordinance, or appropriate ordinance,
10:21:11 and regulations, that the City of Tampa would be a
10:21:17 doggy dining city.
10:21:20 And I don't know how much time you need on that.
10:21:24 Maybe we could model of a St. Petersburg and go from
10:21:29 there.

10:21:29 What sort of time do you think?
10:21:32 >>> I would propose we bring it back on August
10:21:35 17th.
10:21:37 >>> That's good enough for me.
10:21:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's my motion.
10:21:40 >>ROSE FERLITA: Just to my same point.
10:21:47 I was just going to make some comments to Ms.
10:21:51 Hargrett.
10:21:52 Belated congratulations but congratulations
10:21:54 nonetheless.
10:21:55 I think this is a wonderful idea.
10:21:56 I'm sorry we are not first but that's okay.
10:21:58 St. Pete had a good idea and we are moving along.
10:22:01 That's great.
10:22:02 Lots of times it's between people who have dogs, as I
10:22:05 do, as many of my colleagues do here, and going to a
10:22:08 restaurant and sitting outside and certainly not being
10:22:12 inside and worrying about any health issues.
10:22:13 But sometimes it's a difference between sitting
10:22:15 outside or getting take-out to go home.
10:22:18 I think it's a wonderful idea.
10:22:20 And I think the point that John brought up is key to

10:22:22 why we should move on this.
10:22:23 It gives dog owners, like some of us, the opportunity
10:22:26 to sit outside with their dogs.
10:22:29 Davis Island is a wonderful example.
10:22:32 Because it's got that area that can be isolated.
10:22:35 And at the same time, it's the owner or the proprietor
10:22:39 of the business doesn't want this, it not something
10:22:41 that's being forcibly mandated on an eating
10:22:45 establishment.
10:22:45 I think it's great.
10:22:46 And I can't wait for this to finish off so we can do
10:22:51 that.
10:22:53 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Just a point of clarification.
10:22:56 When you mentioned at the option, should that be in
10:22:59 the motion itself?
10:23:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We can put it in the motion but
10:23:03 it's inherent in the bill.
10:23:04 Yes.
10:23:05 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Just wanted to make sure because it
10:23:07 should be an option.
10:23:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Completely optional.
10:23:12 >>MARY ALVAREZ: To the restaurant owners.

10:23:14 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:23:16 (Motion carried).
10:23:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
10:23:21 would like to request reconsideration?
10:23:23 >> Bill Duval, 5408 branch Avenue, here representing
10:23:36 Tampa homeowners, association of neighborhoods.
10:23:38 You may recall that just last week there was a lot of
10:23:41 discussion on the update to the chapter 27, and
10:23:46 towards the end there were certain items that were
10:23:47 deleted for future discussion.
10:23:50 T.H.A.N. is under the impression that dash 98
10:23:53 regarding front porches was a part of that.
10:23:55 As we know, it turns out that it wasn't.
10:23:57 So through discussion, I was directed to come here to
10:24:02 see if we could get dash 98 among the other favor, I
10:24:08 believe it was, deleted from that document, so that we
10:24:12 could have more discussion on it.
10:24:13 And certainly in the 7 days since, there's been a lot
10:24:18 of misunderstanding.
10:24:20 And I think that emphasizes the fact that that Tim
10:24:24 needs to be held out and discussed as well.
10:24:29 >>SHAWN HARRISON: As the maker of the motion I was

10:24:31 quite surprised when I heard that that was not
10:24:33 included in the actual sections that I read into the
10:24:38 record.
10:24:39 And it certainly was my intent -- and I have not going
10:24:45 gone back and reviewed the tape.
10:24:48 When it was not included.
10:24:50 But I wrote it down.
10:24:52 It was on my notes to take 98 out.
10:24:55 I think that was the intention of everyone.
10:24:57 I think even Mr. Dingfelder who argued for this
10:25:00 provision agreed that let's send it back for 30 days,
10:25:05 and we'll just take, you know, take a look and make
10:25:07 sure everybody is comfortable.
10:25:09 So that was my intention.
10:25:11 I don't know procedurally what we need to do to get to
10:25:14 that point.
10:25:16 I want us to get to that point so that section it 98
10:25:19 is one of those that are going to go back and be
10:25:22 reviewed and come back to us in 30 days.
10:25:30 >>JULIA COLE: I remember when we went to the link it
10:25:32 wasn't specifically on there and if got to this then
10:25:35 that was my bad.

10:25:36 But tit at the time I am went back and reviewed it, it
10:25:38 was not.
10:25:39 But at this time if council votes to reconsider that
10:25:41 provision, at some point in the meeting I can
10:25:46 essentially bring the remainder back to reschedule
10:25:49 that.
10:25:54 Had the remainder come back probably at the next
10:25:56 meeting with the ordinance removing that and have that
10:25:59 readopted because it's part of the entire adaptive
10:26:02 ordinance.
10:26:03 So similarly to what we did the last time, I have to
10:26:07 remove that provision.
10:26:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Not to complicate things.
10:26:15 But what I wonder about is, it's my understanding that
10:26:20 the entire ordinance has been signed by the mayor now.
10:26:26 Because the clerk says it has.
10:26:28 And so I don't know if that changes your opinion in
10:26:32 terms of the reconsideration.
10:26:34 Now, with that said, I have had discussions with
10:26:39 T.H.A.N. representatives this week, when all of this
10:26:42 was hanging around.
10:26:43 And I completely committed to meet with them, to have

10:26:48 lengthy discussions with T.H.A.N. and with other folks
10:26:51 who were interested in the front porch issue, to
10:26:55 really hash this house, which is probably what I
10:26:57 should have done on the front end.
10:26:58 And I apologize to everybody for not having done that.
10:27:01 I still think it's a good thing.
10:27:03 But I want to work with the neighborhood organization
10:27:07 on this issue, see if we can't agree on this, then
10:27:11 maybe we can find a compromise position.
10:27:14 I've already committed to attending the next meeting
10:27:18 to discuss this.
10:27:19 But I don't know, because the mayor has already signed
10:27:21 this into law, I don't know if that changes anything
10:27:24 from a legal perspective.
10:27:29 >>JULIA COLE: If that would allow to us come back,
10:27:32 probably go to after lunch, that when could go ahead
10:27:34 and come back to you, and see where we are.
10:27:36 I think there may also be another issue.
10:27:38 There may be a scrivener's error in the ordinance as
10:27:41 well, that we may have to come back to you anyway.
10:27:44 So maybe Mr. Smith and I can take a look at this issue
10:27:53 and make sure -- to consider that scrivener's error.

10:27:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Two weeks?
10:28:02 >>JULIA COLE: We can try to bring it back after lunch
10:28:05 or this afternoon.
10:28:05 >>DAVID SMITH: Let us come back to you this afternoon,
10:28:08 because your ability to act may be different in two
10:28:10 weeks than it is today.
10:28:14 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Don't assume we'll be here after
10:28:16 lunch.
10:28:20 >>DAVID SMITH: I'll start working on it in the
10:28:22 interim.
10:28:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Just come back as quickly as possible.
10:28:28 Is there anyone in the public that wants to speak on
10:28:30 an item on the agenda not set for public hearing?
10:28:32 >>MARGARET VIZZI: 213 South Sherill.
10:28:40 I just wanted to find out if council feels that the
10:28:43 sign ordinance workshop will be probably after lunch,
10:28:50 the time that it is, and -- because I have to leave,
10:28:53 and I really wanted to be here for it.
10:28:55 So I wanted to come back if I could.
10:28:57 >>ROSE FERLITA: Ms. Vizzi, I think I misdirected you
10:29:00 because I was just -- looks like the chairman is going
10:29:03 to do that next?

10:29:05 >>GWEN MILLER: No, after the meeting.
10:29:07 We should be meeting on that in about 11:30 or quarter
10:29:11 of 12 because we don't have much to the agenda.
10:29:15 >>MARGARET VIZZI: Then I won't be able to be here.
10:29:22 >>GWEN MILLER: But as soon as we finish our agenda
10:29:25 then we go right into the sign.
10:29:27 >>ROSE FERLITA: The question, though, since it's going
10:29:29 to be one of those things like chapter 27 was, in that
10:29:33 amount of time, are we going to have enough time to
10:29:35 discuss this?
10:29:37 Julie, what do you think?
10:29:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you all want to come back after
10:29:40 lunch?
10:29:41 >>ROSE FERLITA: I don't care what council wants to do
10:29:44 but if there are some comprehensive changes to look
10:29:46 at, I don't think this is going to be the final-final
10:29:48 report.
10:29:49 >>GWEN MILLER: When we finish our agenda we said we
10:29:51 would go right into the workshop.
10:29:53 >>ROSE FERLITA: But what I'm saying because it's going
10:29:55 to be longer -- Ms. Vizzi has a question and she has
10:30:01 been very instrumental.

10:30:02 >>GWEN MILLER: We made a motion at the end of the
10:30:05 agenda.
10:30:06 We can't move it up.
10:30:07 >>ROSE FERLITA: But what I'm saying if it's noon do we
10:30:13 come back?
10:30:13 Because it will be longer than noon.
10:30:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I am so grateful for Ms. Ferlita
10:30:18 for leading this whole sign committee effort.
10:30:20 And I don't want us to not give it the full attention
10:30:26 that it deserves.
10:30:27 And I think that if it's more comfortable in terms of
10:30:32 Ms. Advise toy speak to it now, I would rather you
10:30:36 speak now, and then you be allowed to speak later.
10:30:52 And there are many good things, representation on both
10:30:54 sides, and we compromised on both sides.
10:30:57 So I just wanted to encourage council to the workshop
10:31:01 to listen and hopefully other members will be able to
10:31:04 be here to encourage to you do the same.
10:31:07 And if I find out, I will call to find out if it will
10:31:11 be at 1:30, if you will take a lunch break before you
10:31:16 hear it, I will come back at that time.
10:31:18 But if not, I just wanted you to -- to encourage you

10:31:22 to move it along.
10:31:24 Because it's a lot of good things that I think will be
10:31:26 gad for the city.
10:31:29 >>JULIA COLE: And I did want to thank Ms. Vizzi.
10:31:31 She was a huge part of this.
10:31:33 And I hope she can be back for when we speak about it.
10:31:37 But I also want to let council know this will not be
10:31:39 the first conversation about it.
10:31:41 This is really bringing back to you where we ended up.
10:31:46 We will be continuing forward and we'll see where we
10:31:50 get at the end of the day.
10:31:51 And then we will have additional public hearings, the.
10:32:00 This is the beginning, not the end.
10:32:02 But again, Ms. Vizzi and everybody else worked so hard
10:32:06 and I think it was a wonderful experience.
10:32:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else like to speak?
10:32:11 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: Suite 3700 Bank of America plaza. I
10:32:22 would like to speak on item 4, which discussed the
10:32:26 overlay district for Bayshore.
10:32:28 I represent several property owners on Bayshore that
10:32:33 asked me to participate in these discussions.
10:32:35 And we look forward to attending the discussions at

10:32:38 Kate Jackson park next month.
10:32:41 I would like you, as you are thinking about this issue
10:32:44 in the next coming months, realize that there's an
10:32:48 expansive right-of-way on Bayshore that is already
10:32:52 city property and can certainly be taken advantage of
10:32:54 in a public works project.
10:32:56 You can think of many excellent rights-of-way from the
10:33:08 champs in Paris to brickle Avenue in Miami.
10:33:12 And to have creative discussion busy city right-of-way
10:33:16 and improve that, that's certainly the idea.
10:33:19 Our clients do not want to bear the loss of any
10:33:22 property rights without compensation based on what
10:33:24 their existing zoning is today.
10:33:26 And this is important as to the moratorium issue that
10:33:29 Ms. Saul-Sena brought up.
10:33:31 If the intent of the City Council is to improve the
10:33:34 vista of the Bayshore and not to impact anyone's
10:33:37 property rights then there's in a need for a
10:33:40 moratorium.
10:33:42 My clients are moving forward with any project, as you
10:33:45 did in the MacDill study area which is certainly a
10:33:48 good idea to have an abatement in that area.

10:33:51 But your intent is to start today and not impact
10:33:55 property rights but in fact improve the vista and what
10:33:58 already exists on Bayshore, then so be it.
10:34:01 But a moratorium sends out a very dig different signal
10:34:05 that someone who is trying to exercise some rights may
10:34:09 not be able to do that whale you get your zoning and
10:34:11 comp plan house in order.
10:34:12 I only ask you to keep that in mind, and that we are
10:34:17 all for improving Bayshore, but not at a cost that is
10:34:23 not compensated.
10:34:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:34:26 Would anyone else like to speak?
10:34:27 No one else to like to speak?
10:34:30 We go to our committee reports.
10:34:31 Public safety, Ms. Rose Ferlita.
10:34:34 >>ROSE FERLITA: I would like to move resolutions 7
10:34:36 through 9.
10:34:38 >> Second.
10:34:38 (Motion carried).
10:34:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Parks and recreation, Mary Alvarez.
10:34:43 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I would like to move items 10 through
10:34:46 12.

10:34:47 >> Second.
10:34:48 (Motion carried).
10:34:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Public works, Mr. John Dingfelder.
10:34:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll move items 13 through 19.
10:34:55 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Second.
10:34:57 (Motion carried).
10:34:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Finance Committee, Mr. Kevin White.
10:35:01 >>KEVIN WHITE: Move 20 through 25.
10:35:06 >> Second.
10:35:06 (Motion carried).
10:35:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Building and zoning, Ms. Linda
10:35:09 Saul-Sena.
10:35:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move resolutions
10:35:13 26 -- wow -- through 42.
10:35:24 >> Second.
10:35:24 (Motion carried).
10:35:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Transportation, Mr. Shawn Harrison.
10:35:29 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I would like to move items 43
10:35:31 through 47.
10:35:32 >> Second.
10:35:32 (Motion carried).
10:35:32 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I would like to set the new

10:35:37 hearings, items 48 -- well, just 48.
10:35:42 >> Second.
10:35:42 (Motion carried).
10:35:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
10:35:47 wants to speak on items 49 through 60?
10:35:50 Will you please stand and raise your right hand?
10:35:52 (Oath administered by Clerk).
10:36:04 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to open item 49.
10:36:07 >> So moved.
10:36:08 >> Second.
10:36:08 (Motion carried).
10:36:09 >>ROSE FERLITA: I don't know if I can do this or not.
10:36:11 I just want to make a comment about something I just
10:36:13 moved.
10:36:14 Can I do that real quick?
10:36:15 Linda, you moved item 28, correct?
10:36:17 And I just want to say that if this is what I am
10:36:23 looking at, I think it is, that this is a perfect way
10:36:25 to go forward and partner with the private sector to
10:36:27 get something done.
10:36:28 And I think it's just a wonderful, wonderful project.
10:36:31 And people have been working on this without

10:36:34 recognition at this point, it's a wonderful thing to
10:36:36 do because the private sector cooperated and benefited
10:36:42 from it, too.
10:36:42 It's just great.
10:36:45 >>JAMES COOK: Land Development Coordination.
10:36:47 I have been sworn.
10:36:48 Petitioner is requesting to vacate an alley running
10:36:50 from 22nd street to 24th street, between 18th
10:36:57 Avenue and 17th Avenue.
10:36:59 The Elmo highlighted, petitioner's property on both
10:37:03 sides,.
10:37:10 This shot of the alley along petitioner's property.
10:37:13 The building on the north side and on the south side.
10:37:21 This is looking east. This continues east at 24th
10:37:24 street.
10:37:31 This is a shot of the alley log west from the rear of
10:37:34 petitioner's property towards 22nd street.
10:37:37 The property once again had property on both sides of
10:37:40 the alley.
10:37:41 The alley doesn't actually access.
10:37:45 This portion here you see, even though it's private
10:37:52 property people have been driving on it like an alley.

10:37:58 It dead-ends into that telephone pole.
10:38:01 I'll show you that shot, which is this shot here.
10:38:06 This is continuing east towards 24th street.
10:38:11 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Is that part of the vacating?
10:38:13 >>> This is the request to be vacated, yes, ma'am.
10:38:16 And I'll show you the other end.
10:38:19 This is the alleyway from west to 24th street.
10:38:22 Petitioner's property at the other end.
10:38:25 The west end.
10:38:29 This is the same shot, alley across 24th.
10:38:32 This is not subject to vacating.
10:38:34 It shows the alley continuing east across 24th
10:38:37 street.
10:38:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So if the alley is vacated that is
10:38:43 right across what we are looking at?
10:38:45 >>> This is not subject to the vacating.
10:38:50 This property owner could fence across there and stop
10:38:53 anybody from going across.
10:38:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Cook,
10:38:58 >> Do any of those property owners have rear access?
10:39:04 >>> There are a couple of gates back there, secondary
10:39:06 access.

10:39:06 I notice there are uses in the rear of the property.
10:39:12 >> It looks like this alley is --
10:39:16 >>> There's tracks along the alley so people do drive
10:39:19 up and down the alley.
10:39:25 This is a shot of petitioner's property.
10:39:27 The alley is just north of this building.
10:39:32 This is the building south side of the alleyway.
10:39:38 This is the rear of petitioner's property abutting the
10:39:41 alley.
10:39:41 This area right here is being used as an alley
10:39:44 although it's not officially a dedicated alley.
10:39:46 People are driving it -- on it, treating it as a
10:39:50 north-south alleyway.
10:39:54 It runs right here.
10:39:56 North-south along this building.
10:40:00 This is a shot looking north along petitioner's rear
10:40:03 property line.
10:40:04 This is 17th Avenue to the south.
10:40:06 This is the area people were driving on, north-south,
10:40:10 treating it as an alley, that's private property.
10:40:15 This is a shot looking south along the property line.
10:40:20 It looks like an alley.

10:40:22 Although it's not an alley, it's private property.
10:40:24 That's not subject to the vacating.
10:40:26 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there a dumpster right this?
10:40:28 Who use that is dumpster?
10:40:29 >>> Dumpster belongs to this business here.
10:40:31 Petitioner's property.
10:40:33 And that's a shot of petitioner's property along 22nd
10:40:38 street.
10:40:38 This is in the East Tampa overlay district, a total of
10:40:42 551 alleys, of those alleys 400 are still open and 151
10:40:46 have been vacated.
10:40:48 Staff has no objection to this vacating as long as
10:40:50 utility easements are reserved.
10:40:59 >>> I prepared an ordinance in anticipation of the
10:41:02 hearing, presented at ordinance to the city clerk.
10:41:04 I have a copy for council.
10:41:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
10:41:07 >> Jose ROJAS, I have been sworn.
10:41:31 The placement of the alley as it was shown just a
10:41:34 moment ago is a little bit off.
10:41:37 It actually runs adjacent to the building that's on
10:41:39 the north end of the property.

10:41:44 The problem I have been having is, A, it bisects the
10:41:48 property.
10:41:49 Secondly, as staff was relating.
10:41:53 The people that do use the alley coming out of the
10:41:56 back of their properties, they have two Avenues to
10:41:59 travel.
10:41:59 They can go to 24th or to 22nd.
10:42:02 The one that is are coming to 22nd, instead of
10:42:04 continuing to along with what would be the alley
10:42:09 adjacent to the building reaching the back of the
10:42:12 property, they are turning and going either north or
10:42:14 south, and basically using the properties as a
10:42:19 throughway.
10:42:19 In addition to that, and because of that, we have had
10:42:22 a continuing problem.
10:42:26 The dumpster that you saw a moment ago, that picture
10:42:29 happened to be taken at a good time.
10:42:31 We are always having people dumping on or around this
10:42:34 dumpster.
10:42:34 We actually had it removed a couple of days ago to see
10:42:37 if that could stem the flow.
10:42:39 The previous owner had told me that wouldn't stem the

10:42:41 flow, the only thing that would stem the flow would be
10:42:44 if we would fence the back of the property.
10:42:46 But we are not able to do that obviously because the
10:42:48 alley bisects the property as is set forth and
10:42:56 platted, if you will.
10:42:57 That's why we are asking for a vacated property.
10:43:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: When did you purchase the property?
10:43:03 >>> In October.
10:43:05 >> Of 2005?
10:43:07 >>> Yes, sir.
10:43:07 >> Were you aware that the alley vacated bisected the
10:43:11 alley you were purchasing?
10:43:12 >>> I did.
10:43:13 Yes, I knew there was an alley there.
10:43:15 I wasn't aware of the fact that it was going to create
10:43:19 a problem with basically dumping, without being able
10:43:22 to put some sort of a fence to keep people off the
10:43:26 property.
10:43:26 >> You could fence the two properties separately right
10:43:34 now and keep people off of your property, correct?
10:43:40 And leave the alley unfenced, that you could fence the
10:43:43 two properties that you own on either side of the

10:43:45 alley.
10:43:45 >> The one property is actually several different --
10:43:51 there's three of them.
10:43:52 One of them is actually bisected by the alley.
10:43:55 So I could not run a fence around the one parcel of
10:43:58 property.
10:43:59 I think in the pictures you saw, there was two
10:44:01 buildings.
10:44:02 One of those buildings is actually on one property.
10:44:04 That property line ends almost adjacent to the
10:44:06 building because it was built back before.
10:44:10 But the larger building on the north side of the
10:44:12 property actually runs across the alley and comes --
10:44:17 it stops just short of the smaller building which
10:44:20 would be on the south end of the property.
10:44:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: FHP we did not approve your -- the
10:44:29 vacating request -- well, let me start with a more
10:44:33 basic question.
10:44:34 You indicate add minute ago that the folks who live up
10:44:38 the alley use the alley?
10:44:41 >>> There's two people that live on the alley that do
10:44:43 come out the back of the property.

10:44:45 And originally, just when I was trying to vacate the
10:44:53 alley, my actual request was just to vacate that
10:44:56 portion that bisects my property.
10:44:58 But I was told that I had to go for a vacating of the
10:45:01 whole property, and that that would be a fallback
10:45:04 position if the transportation easement was necessary.
10:45:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Cook, when we face add similar
10:45:14 situation like this, I think it was in Palmetto Beach
10:45:16 a couple months ago, you came up with a creative
10:45:19 solution to help the property owner at the end of the
10:45:21 alley who has had a similar situation, without
10:45:27 actually -- I don't know, what did we do?
10:45:30 Do you remember that?
10:45:31 >>JAMES COOK: It was a 15-foot alleyway and the
10:45:34 abutting owner only needed 5 feet to make the lot
10:45:37 buildable by code, 100-foot depth, vacated a 5-foot
10:45:41 strip leaving the remaining --
10:45:44 >> Do you have a creative solution on this where we
10:45:46 wouldn't actually close the alley to the neighbors?
10:45:49 >>> One of the abutting owners was telling me he owns
10:45:52 this lot at the very east end.
10:45:53 The abutting owner has no parking in the front.

10:45:58 They have a front door on the sidewalk.
10:46:00 But they have a double gate in the back.
10:46:02 And they do park in the rear.
10:46:04 The alley is 450 feet long.
10:46:07 If we -- that's a long way to back out.
10:46:11 I would suggest since the rear of his property is
10:46:15 already in use as an alley, it's paved as an alley, if
10:46:21 you would be willing to give up maybe 10-foot of the
10:46:23 transportation easement total rear to be able to fence
10:46:25 on the west side of that, block the dumpster off, the
10:46:28 east-west alley would still be open, and than way the
10:46:35 alley can still function and headed north at 18th
10:46:39 Avenue.
10:46:41 Whether or not they had enough property there, if
10:46:44 there's some zoning code that we would have to meet
10:46:46 the setbacks and all that, we have to look at that.
10:46:49 >> Do you understand what Mr. Cook just described?
10:46:55 I guess he's saying if you give up on that side, then
10:46:59 we'll give you what's in between the two buildings.
10:47:02 >>JAMES COOK: It would just be an easement.
10:47:05 It wouldn't be in fee.
10:47:06 It's already acting as an alley.

10:47:08 It appears that people are driving on it anyway.
10:47:12 >>> My question would be understanding your point
10:47:13 about backing out the alley and I really don't think
10:47:17 that would be an issue.
10:47:20 Anyone who drives into that alley to access the
10:47:24 property, I don't believe that --
10:47:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Bottom line as a city, we have a
10:47:32 policy we don't want to dead-end these alleys.
10:47:34 So it needs an egress point.
10:47:37 What Mr. Cook is suggesting is the possibility of
10:47:39 creating an egress point on the side of your building.
10:47:43 And then we could go ahead and consider vacating
10:47:45 between your two buildings.
10:47:46 It's sort of a compromise.
10:47:52 >>> Okay.
10:47:52 Without going back and --
10:47:56 >> It's not something we could do at this moment.
10:47:59 >>> I'm not sure I could committee commit to that
10:48:01 compromise although I appreciate the compromise,
10:48:03 without going back and doing a little investigation
10:48:08 for the uses that we have done.
10:48:10 >> How about if we continued it for about a month, and

10:48:13 you and Mr. Cook look at it?
10:48:15 >> Great, if we could minimize -- whatever would be
10:48:20 convenient.
10:48:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
10:48:24 wants to speak on item 49?
10:48:28 >>> Gary Smith.
10:48:33 I don't really have much to input into this.
10:48:36 I just purchased the empty lot right there.
10:48:38 I just happened to notice the signs saying that there
10:48:40 was going to be a meeting here.
10:48:42 And I also noticed that the property owner next to me,
10:48:45 who is selling their property at the moment, uses the
10:48:48 alleyway to park in the back, and they park on my
10:48:52 property also because it's an empty lot.
10:48:54 I was going to fence my lot which means they would not
10:48:56 be able to drive onto my lot to get to their place,
10:48:59 which means they have to go through the alley.
10:49:01 I thought I saw another entrance to the alley behind
10:49:06 the house somewhere, but it may not be an alleyway.
10:49:09 It may be somewhere that they are using as an
10:49:11 alleyway.
10:49:12 I guess someone will just have to look into it and see

10:49:14 what it was.
10:49:15 But I don't have an objection, it just means more lot
10:49:20 for me.
10:49:21 But I just wanted to just find out exactly what was
10:49:24 going on.
10:49:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Next.
10:49:35 >>> Benjamin hotel, I own one of the properties.
10:49:43 For the possible closure.
10:49:44 And I use that alley.
10:49:49 So it would affect me if you close the whole alley.
10:49:52 A partial closure, I could live with that.
10:49:55 But I would like access.
10:50:01 I go in and out.
10:50:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Have you been sworn, sir?
10:50:06 >>> Yes.
10:50:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else like to speak?
10:50:10 Mr. Dingfelder?
10:50:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think that we can work out a
10:50:13 compromise.
10:50:15 I would like to suggest that he and Mr. Cook -- three
10:50:22 weeks, work on this, for a three-week continuance.
10:50:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second for a three-week

10:50:28 continuance.
10:50:28 (Motion carried).
10:50:30 Item 50.
10:50:31 >>JULIA COLE: Before we move onto our next public
10:50:34 hearing.
10:50:34 Mr. Shelby would be upset if I don't read that
10:50:37 statement.
10:50:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And he didn't leave you the hat.
10:50:44 >>> He didn't leave me the hat and I don't know where
10:50:46 the sign is.
10:50:46 I ask that all written communication relative to
10:50:48 today's public hearings which have been available for
10:50:51 public inspection in City Council's office be received
10:50:53 and filed into the record at this time.
10:50:59 Any members of council that have had any verbal
10:51:02 communication with any petitioner, his or her
10:51:04 representative, or any member of the public in
10:51:05 connection with any of today's hearings, that member
10:51:09 of council should, prior to the action, disclose.
10:51:12 The person or persons, groups or entities with whom
10:51:16 the verbal communication occurred and the substance of
10:51:17 the verbal communication, those who will be testifying

10:51:22 through the hearing, I ask that you state your name,
10:51:25 please also reaffirm that you have been sworn, and I
10:51:28 am not really sure where the sign is.
10:51:31 And I will make sure to confirm that everybody is
10:51:35 informed, if they -- has been sworn if they haven't
10:51:38 said it on the record.
10:51:39 >>HEATHER LAMBOY: Good morning, council.
10:51:41 Land development.
10:51:42 I have been sworn.
10:51:42 The subject property is located at 4830 North Florida
10:51:45 Avenue.
10:51:46 You recall this is continued at the June 8th
10:51:49 hearing to work out some technical issues.
10:51:51 The site is for the Air Masters business located on
10:51:57 the corner of Louisiana and Florida.
10:51:59 The commercial intense tiff corridor with a little bit
10:52:02 of commercial general, and abutting residential.
10:52:05 The request is for parking lot and RS-50 zone, is
10:52:09 located immediately adjacent to the commercial parcel
10:52:12 for the Air Masters site.
10:52:15 The technical issues is protecting some trees.
10:52:19 And changes have been made to the site plan that

10:52:24 reflect one-way exists that protect the 30-inch tree,
10:52:32 and there was another minor technical issue related to
10:52:37 stormwater.
10:52:38 So, therefore, staff has no objections.
10:52:40 That concludes staff comments.
10:52:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
10:52:46 Petitioner?
10:52:47 Is the petitioner here?
10:52:58 >>> Michael Horner, Dale Mabry.
10:53:02 I have been sworn, Julia.
10:53:04 The ongoing joke, I have done better when I don't
10:53:08 appear than when I actually appear.
10:53:11 Steve Michelini offered to hide me, but I see my icon.
10:53:17 You will recall we had one issue, a transportation
10:53:22 conflict.
10:53:23 To address that issue by increasing that separation.
10:53:26 We also saved two trees that were inquired about, by
10:53:36 taking out nonconform and conforming them.
10:53:39 So we are now moving to the brand gnaw building
10:53:46 completely enclosed, parking, concrete wall, save a
10:53:50 tree, access worked out.
10:53:52 We thank you for your help.

10:54:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
10:54:01 wants to speak on item 50?
10:54:03 >>> Joe Elsworth, president of south Seminole Heights
10:54:09 civic association.
10:54:11 The Air Masters project does lie within our district.
10:54:14 And our Board of Directors has reviewed this.
10:54:16 We feel this is certainly a positive to Florida Ave.
10:54:21 which is in sore need of improvement and the
10:54:23 neighborhood association supports this.
10:54:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else like to speak?
10:54:27 We need to close the public hearing.
10:54:29 >>MARY ALVAREZ: So moved.
10:54:30 >> Second.
10:54:30 (Motion carried).
10:54:31 >>GWEN MILLER: We have an ordinance.
10:54:35 Mr. White.
10:54:36 >>KEVIN WHITE: Move an ordinance approving a special
10:54:38 use permit S-2 approving an off-street commercial
10:54:42 parking lot in the CI commercial intensive in RS-50
10:54:45 single family zoning district in the general vicinity
10:54:48 of 4830 North Florida Avenue in the city of tap and as
10:54:50 more particularly described in section 1 hereof

10:54:53 allowing access to a local street providing an
10:54:56 effective date.
10:54:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
10:54:59 (Motion carried)
10:55:00 Item 51 is a continued public hearing.
10:55:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I was attempted to vote against him
10:55:08 just for fun.
10:55:15 >>> Marty McDonald, land development.
10:55:18 I have not been sworn.
10:55:21 (Oath administered by Clerk) in front of you is
10:55:33 Z-06-48, a request to rezone property from RM-16 to
10:55:39 commercial neighborhood -- I'm sorry, neighborhood
10:55:44 commercial/office.
10:55:47 The petitioner -- excuse me, the location of the
10:55:50 property is 2114 west Columbus drive.
10:55:54 The property is located along the Columbus drive
10:55:56 corridor, which is predominantly a mixture of
10:55:58 commercial and residential uses.
10:56:00 The subject property is surrounded by CI zoning
10:56:03 district to the north, east and west.
10:56:07 The property is located on the subject site is RM-16.
10:56:11 There are two existing buildings on-site that are

10:56:13 currently used as professional offices.
10:56:18 It originally had been zoned C-2.
10:56:23 We have build RM-16.
10:56:28 The commercial use or the offices have been there
10:56:32 prior to the RM-16 zoning.
10:56:34 So what they are doing, petitioner is requesting now
10:56:36 to come into conformance with the uses that they have
10:56:41 historically had there.
10:56:44 Let me show you on the zoning map.
10:56:50 This is the subject site.
10:56:51 We have Columbus Avenue.
10:56:53 This is Armenia to the west.
10:56:56 And Albany to the east.
10:57:00 If you look carefully here -- I know it's small
10:57:02 print -- you will see this area of RM-16.
10:57:06 It shoots up along Columbus.
10:57:09 You have an area of CI adjacent to this property.
10:57:12 And up again.
10:57:13 And then back down.
10:57:16 Originally the petitioner was going to come in for
10:57:19 either CG rezoning or CI rezoning.
10:57:22 This parcel is only 9,500 square feet.

10:57:27 And the requirement is 10,000 square feet.
10:57:29 So you have to come in as a commercial neighborhood
10:57:31 instead of what you see along the corridor and beyond.
10:57:35 It is located within the West Tampa overlay district.
10:57:39 There are design standards that apply.
10:57:43 We have as stab staff no objection to the site.
10:57:49 They are not going to mach any additional improvements
10:57:52 so there are waivers in conjunction with it.
10:57:54 And that is they are asking to reduce the southerly
10:57:56 landscape buffer from five feet to zero.
10:57:59 And the area of green space they are asking to reduce,
10:58:04 have a waiver from that.
10:58:06 And also on the minimal recommended amount of trees
10:58:09 because of the site is constrained.
10:58:12 Let me show you the aerial.
10:58:18 Subject site, Columbus.
10:58:19 This is the existing building.
10:58:21 And there is a building, you can't really see it in
10:58:24 the shade here.
10:58:25 But there's a building right here.
10:58:29 You are looking at Columbus east on the Elmo.
10:58:32 And this is directly across the street to the

10:58:35 commercial use.
10:58:40 Here is a picture of the site.
10:58:43 That is a view looking west on Columbus.
10:58:46 Again, across the street.
10:58:49 Across the street.
10:58:55 Subject site.
10:58:56 This is that second building to the rear.
10:59:02 Just a view of how the site exists with the parking.
10:59:07 This is the subject to the east.
10:59:09 It is a commercial use.
10:59:17 To the west this is CI commercial.
10:59:19 Planning Commission has no objection to this request.
10:59:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
10:59:32 Joseph Diaz, West Kennedy Boulevard.
10:59:36 And I have not been sworn in.
10:59:40 (Oath administered by Clerk)
10:59:40 I'm here today on behalf of the owner of the property
10:59:52 at 2114 west Columbus drive, Fred Papia.
10:59:59 All of the property on Columbus drive from the west
11:00:01 side of the river to Armenia, with the exception of
11:00:07 these two lots, and these three lots, two of which are
11:00:11 before you, are all zoned CI.

11:00:15 We would love to have zoned this property CI.
11:00:18 But we felt that would have just made the whole area
11:00:21 consistent.
11:00:23 So we have modified our petition and ask for CM.
11:00:29 It's an existing location.
11:00:31 It has two structures on it.
11:00:34 Staff had certain recommendations and we adopted all
11:00:37 of our recommendations.
11:00:40 We would humbly request you approve this CI
11:00:46 application.
11:00:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
11:00:48 wants to speak on item 51?
11:00:59 >>> Janice Williams.
11:00:59 I have been sworn in.
11:01:00 I'm at 1902 west St. Conrad speak and the president of
11:01:06 the old Tampa neighborhood recreation and crime watch.
11:01:11 I believe council members received an e-mail message
11:01:14 from me indicating that while there was general
11:01:16 approval for this, I guess the people in the area
11:01:21 didn't know what was going to happen with the
11:01:26 building, if the building was going to be raised.
11:01:29 And from me, my concern was just parking issues,

11:01:32 because it seemed quite tight there.
11:01:35 There are people living -- I know that parts were
11:01:42 designated CI on the west side.
11:01:44 People live in that house.
11:01:46 So their concern is if there were going to be any type
11:01:49 of changes to the property, that their needs be taken
11:01:55 into consideration, if there is going to be any
11:01:58 problems with building, dust, anything like that.
11:02:01 But parking is an issue for me.
11:02:03 But if the property has been used in the past for
11:02:07 commercial use, maybe that's not important to you all.
11:02:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Since you have been here today and
11:02:14 you heard the plans of the petitioner, are you
11:02:16 comfortable with the buffering that's a forwarded the
11:02:19 residential to the south of this parcel?
11:02:22 Are you comfortable with the buffering in between the
11:02:27 parcelling and the residential property?
11:02:31 >>> As long as there are no changes.
11:02:33 As long as they are going to use the building as is.
11:02:37 I don't have a problem with it.
11:02:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This request is for a zoning
11:02:44 category that doesn't think to whether -- speak to

11:02:47 whether there will be changes to the land use but
11:02:49 maybe after you speak the petitioner can come up and
11:02:52 clarify.
11:02:56 >>MARTY BOYLE McDONALD: Land development.
11:02:57 Commercial neighborhood is a site plan controlled
11:03:01 district.
11:03:03 So what you see before you is how it happened to be
11:03:07 named.
11:03:07 So as it is, as existing conditions, they are just
11:03:11 really trying to come into conformance with what the
11:03:13 use has always been and had originally been C-2 before
11:03:18 that.
11:03:20 >>MARY ALVAREZ: And the report says that the buildings
11:03:22 are -- no decisions.
11:03:26 I'm comfortable with the staff recommendation.
11:03:31 >>KEVIN WHITE: Move to close.
11:03:33 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone else that wants to
11:03:35 speak?
11:03:36 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Move to close.
11:03:38 >> Second.
11:03:38 (Motion carried).
11:03:39 >>MARY ALVAREZ: An ordinance rezoning property in the

11:03:46 general vicinity of 2114 west Columbus drive in the
11:03:50 city of Tampa, Florida and more particularly described
11:03:52 in RM-16 residential multifamily to CM commercial
11:03:59 neighborhood providing an effective date.
11:04:03 (Motion Carried).
11:04:03 >>GWEN MILLER: We are going to go back to item number
11:04:05 6 which was supposed to be held at 11:00 o'clock.
11:04:15 Cathy Coyle, are you going to be the spokesperson?
11:04:26 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
11:04:27 I would love to introduce the mayor of our wonderful
11:04:30 city.
11:04:31 Mayor Pam Iorio.
11:04:33 She has some opening words.
11:04:38 >>MAYOR PAM IORIO: Good morning, council members.
11:04:40 I am so pleased to be here today to introduce the
11:04:42 topic of the land use study and we have a very
11:04:49 positive recommendation to make to Tampa City Council
11:04:51 and in the process that you will take with the public
11:04:53 hearing.
11:04:54 First, we can't overstate the important of MacDill
11:04:57 Air Force Base to our community.
11:04:58 It has an economic impact of 6.5 million a year and it

11:05:07 helps to set the tone, the tenor of our entire
11:05:10 community and it's so critical that we always protect
11:05:12 the future of MacDill Air Force Base.
11:05:16 Now, one of the issues that has often been in the
11:05:19 forefront of other communities, when they have lost
11:05:22 their military bases, has been land use encroachment
11:05:25 on the base.
11:05:26 And so I think it was probably over a year ago, we set
11:05:31 up a land use committee under the auspices of the
11:05:36 military sets up these sorts of land use committees
11:05:39 called JLU to examine the land uses around MacDill
11:05:44 Air Force Base to see what recommendations we can make
11:05:47 for the long-term.
11:05:49 Now, we were so fortunate to have a great committee,
11:05:54 colonel Margaret Woodward is here today. Of course
11:05:57 now she leads MacDill Air Force Base and we are so
11:06:00 fortunate to have her, and she was active on our
11:06:03 committee and she is here today and will be making
11:06:05 comments.
11:06:06 Councilman John Dingfelder was a member of the
11:06:08 committee.
11:06:08 And of course added a great deal to the discussion

11:06:10 with his extensive knowledge of all the land use and
11:06:13 the zoning issues.
11:06:15 County commissioner Cathy castor was also on the
11:06:18 committee.
11:06:18 And she also did a great job.
11:06:20 And so the four of us along with a great deal of help
11:06:24 from the staff and the community came up with some key
11:06:26 recommendations.
11:06:27 I think it's very important to note -- and the staff
11:06:30 is going to give you a PowerPoint presentation -- we
11:06:33 have the clear zone, APZ-1 and APZ-2.
11:06:38 Probably a lot of people don't know they lived for
11:06:39 many years in APZ-1 or 2, and I think part of the
11:06:43 process you are ready to embark on in these public
11:06:46 hearings is going to be a public awareness process, so
11:06:48 that many people will recognize where they live, in
11:06:51 conjunction with the Air Force Base and what that
11:06:56 means to them long-term.
11:06:57 It's very important to us as a committee that we not
11:06:59 affect anyone's current property rights as they exist
11:07:01 today.
11:07:02 I know that would be important to you, too.

11:07:09 If someone has a home or a duplex, whatever situation,
11:07:13 in APZ-1 or 2, they retain. That if it gets destroyed
11:07:17 in a storm they have the right to rebuild that.
11:07:19 But what our recommendations to you say is we don't
11:07:22 want to increase densities in those two areas.
11:07:25 It's very important that people not be able to rezone
11:07:27 a single-family lot into four or five town homes, for
11:07:31 example, something that's quite prevalent throughout
11:07:34 the rest of our city.
11:07:36 Height restrictions are very important.
11:07:39 So what we are dealing with is the compatibility of an
11:07:42 Air Force Base, that a plane, that we look at height
11:07:45 restrictions for the long-term.
11:07:46 So our staff will do a much better job than I can of
11:07:49 explaining all the details of what we are
11:07:51 recommending.
11:07:52 But the crux of it is, we want to limit densities in
11:07:55 the long-term in those two areas.
11:07:57 And we want to limit height.
11:07:59 We want to make sure we have some very clear height
11:08:02 restrictions in the long-term.
11:08:03 We want to protect not only the Air Force Base, but we

11:08:06 want to protect the people who live near the Air Force
11:08:08 Base.
11:08:09 And so it's really a protection on both sides.
11:08:12 And I'm sure as I said that through the public hearing
11:08:14 process there will be a tremendous amount of public
11:08:17 education that goes forward so that people understand
11:08:19 what their property rights are, and what their
11:08:23 property rights will be going forward.
11:08:25 I really want to thank -- I mentioned Colonel Woodward
11:08:29 and councilman Dingfelder and Commissioner Castor.
11:08:31 But we had a technical working group that consisted of
11:08:34 Rob Roan, Malcolm Alden, Al Steenson, Marty Perry,
11:08:39 David Cohen, Bob Dickman, Tom Keston, Melanie Higgins,
11:08:44 Cliff Fernandez, Margaret Hammer and Paula Harvey.
11:08:47 They put in a lot of hours and did a great job.
11:08:49 Of course, our staff, Catherine Coyle, couldn't have
11:08:53 done it without her, her expertise has been
11:08:56 tremendous.
11:08:56 Tony Rodriguez with MacDill Air Force Base.
11:08:59 And Tony Garcia, the Planning Commission.
11:09:01 Kathleen O'Dowd and Julia Cole from our attorney's
11:09:05 office.

11:09:05 We have also a consultant team of William Mather, John
11:09:09 LaRocca, Alan Murphy, Lorraine Lenz.
11:09:14 So really it's been a team process. The JLUS policy
11:09:19 committee, and all the other people that I mentioned
11:09:21 including a great deal of citizen input from the
11:09:23 citizens that I mentioned.
11:09:24 Everyone working together to preserve MacDill Air
11:09:27 Force Base, and preserve the integrity of the land
11:09:30 uses around MacDill Air Force Base, and ultimately
11:09:33 help protect the very people who live near the Air
11:09:36 Force Base.
11:09:38 It's my pleasure to now introduce to you Colonel
11:09:40 Margaret Woodward of MacDill Air Force Base.
11:09:49 >>> Colonel Maggie Woodward, commander of the sixth
11:09:53 air mobility wing.
11:09:55 It's an honor to be here today before you.
11:09:57 I am here today to express my very sincere
11:10:00 appreciation of once again for the City of Tampa and
11:10:03 the great partnership that we have been able to take
11:10:07 part in as far as this joint land use study committee,
11:10:12 and partnering with us to ensure that we are able to
11:10:15 control the growth that could impact our mission at

11:10:18 MacDill.
11:10:19 As I told you many times, I'm constantly amazed at the
11:10:23 support we get from this community.
11:10:24 I have said many times that I'm very envied by my
11:10:28 fellow wing commanders all around the globe with the
11:10:31 relationship we have here and this joint land use
11:10:34 study is another example of how well we partner
11:10:37 together, with the community, and I can never say
11:10:41 thank you, I think, enough to the community for what
11:10:43 it does to help us.
11:10:46 My job as the commander of a flying wing is to make
11:10:48 sure that I am able to provide our Commander-in-Chief
11:10:52 with the capabilities, capable warriors to take on the
11:11:00 mission that he has commanded to us do. I have to
11:11:02 ensure that we protect the public as well as we are
11:11:05 conducting our operations and doing them safely.
11:11:08 A critical part of that is balancing the flying
11:11:10 mission operations with what is safe for the City of
11:11:14 Tampa and the surrounding communities.
11:11:16 Public health and safety are responsibilities that
11:11:18 obviously we take very seriously.
11:11:20 Therefore, I'm privileged to serve as a member of a

11:11:24 liaison from MacDill on this committee, in
11:11:27 addressing our concerns with development that could
11:11:30 impact our ability to accomplish our mission.
11:11:33 It's my pleasure to serve on the JLUS committee and
11:11:36 thank pair Pam Iorio, councilman John Dingfelder and
11:11:42 county commissioner Cathy castor for an incredible
11:11:45 experience.
11:11:46 We appreciate your willingness to listen to our
11:11:48 concerns, and look at our mission.
11:11:53 I also want to thank the entire group especially Cathy
11:11:57 Coyle and John LaRocca for our tireless effort.
11:12:01 I couldn't have seen a better study go forward and
11:12:05 their leadership is a great part of that.
11:12:07 I want to say thank you to the City Council, the JLU
11:12:09 committee and the people who great share this
11:12:14 wonderful committee with us every day.
11:12:16 We look forward to continuing a wonderful partnership
11:12:18 that has been undergoing for so many years and that we
11:12:21 know will continue between our base and this great
11:12:25 community.
11:12:25 Thank you very much for the opportunity.
11:12:27 >> Thank you.

11:12:31 >> Thank you, council.
11:12:33 I did hand out the agenda that goes through the order
11:12:37 of speakers.
11:12:38 We do have a PowerPoint.
11:12:47 First and foremost, I will give an introduction to the
11:12:51 study schedule.
11:12:51 We will be giving you a brief of the study itself.
11:12:54 We have provided you the full document for your
11:12:56 review.
11:13:00 I will be asking for a motion at the end of the
11:13:02 discussion today.
11:13:03 Following myself will be Tony Rodriguez, he's the base
11:13:07 community planner.
11:13:08 He will be going through the history of the zone and
11:13:12 the AQ's recommendation done by the military, by the
11:13:15 Air Force.
11:13:17 Some recommendations will be done by John LaRocca
11:13:20 going through study parameters.
11:13:21 All of our findings, analyses of land use, densities,
11:13:25 and finally the review of the recommendations.
11:13:27 And I will wrap up with the implementation of the next
11:13:30 steps.

11:13:31 And there is a schedule that was provided to you as
11:13:33 well, an implementation schedule, which is fairly
11:13:36 aggressive; that completes -- will get us to where we
11:13:40 need to be.
11:14:05 To look at what we can do land use and zoningwise to
11:14:09 deal with development encroachment adjacent to the
11:14:11 base to protect not only their mission but the
11:14:15 citizens, as the mayor stated.
11:14:17 Study schedule, just a brief overview, we did start
11:14:18 this a year ago in July.
11:14:21 That's when we received the grant fund to conduct the
11:14:23 study.
11:14:23 We held the initial public information workshops
11:14:26 through December, January 2006.
11:14:29 We held four follow-up policy committee meetings on a
11:14:33 monthly basis.
11:14:34 Finally we are here today, July 20, to present the
11:14:36 study to you.
11:14:38 Completion date is slated for July 31st.
11:14:40 We plan on submitting the comprehensive plan amendment
11:14:43 changes on August 1st, with your motion.
11:14:47 Now to Tony.

11:14:54 >> Tony Rodriguez, base community planner for
11:14:57 MacDill Air Force Base.
11:14:58 The graphic that you see is an aerial of the South
11:15:02 Tampa peninsula with the clear zone and the accident
11:15:06 potential zones overlay.
11:15:07 And just a quick frame of reference.
11:15:10 The clear zone is the most immediate area right off
11:15:12 the end of the runway, and then potential zone 1 or
11:15:17 APZ 1 as it's referred to, is the next one out and
11:15:21 then APZ 2 further out.
11:15:23 We have a split APZ 2 in that our aircraft that are
11:15:28 taking off, when they take off, they get out over the
11:15:30 water as quickly as possible for safety and noise
11:15:33 abatement.
11:15:34 That's where Y there's that track over to the east.
11:15:37 The study area for the joint land use study was Gandy
11:15:41 Boulevard on the north, Manhattan Avenue on the west,
11:15:46 the northern boundary of MacDill Air Force Base to
11:15:48 the south, and the shoreline of the bay to the east.
11:16:00 Now, why do we have clear zones, accident potential
11:16:03 zones, these nebulous things?
11:16:05 This is a graphic of all of the major aircraft

11:16:09 accidents that have occurred since between 1984 and
11:16:15 1998.
11:16:16 And as you can see by the graphic, and it's laid out
11:16:19 in much the same way as the aerial is, the clear zone
11:16:22 being the area closest to the runway, you can see how
11:16:25 many mishaps are occurring in that clear zone area.
11:16:28 So that's got the highest pro tensity for aircraft
11:16:33 mishaps.
11:16:34 APZ 1, a little further -- a little less in terms of
11:16:38 accidents, and APZ 2 west as you go further up.
11:16:42 So we have clear zones and accident potential zones
11:16:46 based on this accident history that's Air Force-wide.
11:16:51 Now, if you have a flying mission, the Air Force does
11:16:56 something called an air installation compatible use
11:17:01 zone.
11:17:01 It's basically a land use compatibility and noise
11:17:05 study that is done in coordination with the community.
11:17:10 However, the AT's recommendations are generally Air
11:17:15 Force wide.
11:17:15 They give the same recommendations to every community.
11:17:19 And an example of that would be no residential in the
11:17:24 clear zone or accident potential zone 1.

11:17:27 And referring back to the aerial that we have, we have
11:17:31 a significant amount of residential in APZ 1.
11:17:36 As a matter of fact, it was probably residential down
11:17:37 there before there was a runway.
11:17:39 So what we needed to do was to find a way, a bridge,
11:17:45 from these very stringent APs recommendations that
11:17:49 are given to all communities, and where we are in
11:17:52 terms of the local zoning and comprehensive land use
11:17:55 plan, and the answer that we all came up with was to
11:18:01 complete this joint land use study, and to analyze
11:18:05 what the land uses, as well as the base operations
11:18:08 are, and to see what the best recommendation would be
11:18:14 for land use densities, and other type of
11:18:17 recommendations.
11:18:18 So with that, I would like to turn it over to John
11:18:20 LaRocca.
11:18:24 >>> I'm John LaRocca with LaRocca consulting group.
11:18:27 Takes mayor mentioned I was the project manager on the
11:18:29 consulting team, pulling together the final report as
11:18:35 a result of the technical advisory committee and
11:18:38 policy committee.
11:18:39 The study parameters that we were responsible for

11:18:45 included review of existing zoning land use
11:18:47 infrastructure, parks and recreational areas,
11:18:49 document, actual land uses from field survey, evaluate
11:18:53 development trends and pressures in the area, evaluate
11:18:56 MacDill Air Force Base's growth objectives and
11:18:58 operational needs, document public input, generate
11:19:03 recommendations regarding future development potential
11:19:06 in the peninsula.
11:19:09 Critical to our analysis was a study of future land
11:19:12 use -- current future land use classifications and
11:19:15 zoning classifications in the study area.
11:19:18 All of this information, of course, is provided in the
11:19:20 report that's been distributed to you this morning.
11:19:23 And you can look at it in more detail.
11:19:25 But the graphics that are being displayed at the
11:19:29 moment indicate that the majority of the future land
11:19:33 use classifications within the area affected by the
11:19:37 clear APZ 1 and APZ 2 zones fall within an area
11:19:42 currently designated and limited by the current comp
11:19:45 plan of 10 dwelling units to the acre.
11:19:48 You recall based on Tony's comments that he just made,
11:19:51 the A-2 recommendation is made on the enclosure APZ 1

11:19:55 and APZ 2 zones at the ends of run ways are
11:19:59 substantially more restrictive than that.
11:20:01 But this map illustrates existing patterns of the
11:20:06 future land use designations that have been defined in
11:20:09 your current future land use plan.
11:20:12 The zoning classification map in the next graphic
11:20:15 illustrates that the bulk of property, the majority of
11:20:19 property within the APZ 1 and APZ 2 zones are the
11:20:24 RS-50 and RS-60 zoning classifications, and the
11:20:30 majority of the land in that area is platted for lots
11:20:34 that are comparable to their zoning character.
11:20:38 There has been, as you well know up in the APZ 2 area,
11:20:42 in the core of the Ballast Point area, projects
11:20:45 through the PD zoning process, that historically have
11:20:48 exceeded those densities, and where the greatest
11:20:52 pressure for intensification for development has
11:20:55 occurred.
11:20:56 We did a quick analysis based on work through the
11:20:59 technical advisory committee and other data available
11:21:02 to us in the APZ 1 area.
11:21:05 And these are gross densities.
11:21:07 Single-family development that exists within the APZ-1

11:21:12 area. This is the area just outside of the clear
11:21:14 zone, the most restricted area at the end of the
11:21:16 runway, but is of an area most concern of the
11:21:20 densities established in a that area are 5.61 units to
11:21:25 the acre, duplex development in the area built out at
11:21:26 9.87 dwelling units to the acre, multifamily at 27.17
11:21:32 units per acre, park and recreational lands make up
11:21:36 about 128.5 acres.
11:21:39 Vacant land at about 37 acres.
11:21:42 In the APZ 2 area, the analysis of land use suggests
11:21:47 that single-family is developed at 4.27 units per
11:21:50 acre, duplex at 4.61 units per acre, multifamily at
11:21:56 15.5 units per acre, there are 10.1 acres of park and
11:22:01 recreational lands, and 12.1 acres of vacant land.
11:22:09 Our study recommendations, of which the policy
11:22:12 committee accepted, had short-term and long-term
11:22:15 goals.
11:22:16 Our short-term goals included the creation of an MI AP
11:22:21 land use designation.
11:22:24 Military installation airport.
11:22:26 It's a clear definition of the defined area in the
11:22:31 clear APZ 1, APZ 2 designated areas, and some obvious

11:22:37 areas adjacent to those areas to be designated on the
11:22:40 long-range comprehensive plan, MAIP, creating new
11:22:45 zoning classifications to follow the land use
11:22:48 designations five districts.
11:22:49 MAIP 1 through MAIP 5.
11:22:53 There has been some precedent set with MAP zoning near
11:22:57 Tampa International Airport. The terminology, we
11:22:57 think, has been utilized before and well reflected.
11:23:01 It reflects and will regulate land use in a way that
11:23:05 recognizes proximity to our military installation
11:23:09 airport.
11:23:13 Establish a real estate closure requirement.
11:23:16 Codify, find and formalize the process for development
11:23:19 permits to require FAA, MacDill Air Force base
11:23:22 approval authorizing particular heights for
11:23:24 development proposals.
11:23:26 Our study recommendations and long-term goals include
11:23:31 investigating the feasibility of establishing a
11:23:34 navigation easement for all new development, develop a
11:23:37 land acquisition program where appropriate and create
11:23:39 a street signage program identifying the accident
11:23:41 potential zones and clear zones within the area.

11:23:45 With that, I will stop, ask Cathy to come up, and
11:23:49 leave time for questions.
11:23:53 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Just a follow-up of a few points.
11:23:58 As much credit as I have given to being the project
11:24:00 manager, I want to acknowledge the people in the land
11:24:03 development office and in the other agencies within
11:24:05 the city that provided a lot of information, a lot of
11:24:08 support.
11:24:08 To my fellow consultant team in this project.
11:24:12 Finally, I would like to introduce rich TANGA from
11:24:19 Washington, office of defense, and without him I would
11:24:23 not have been able to get the paperwork done.
11:24:31 >>> Good morning, council members.
11:24:32 On behalf of the department much defense I came down
11:24:34 today to first thank you and thank everyone that was
11:24:36 involved in this project, from the joint land use
11:24:39 study policy committee, to the working group.
11:24:41 This is what I consider one of the outstanding
11:24:45 projects I have worked with.
11:24:46 This is my third project in Florida.
11:24:49 I'm starting up a new one down at EG land Air Force
11:24:54 Base.

11:24:55 I want to thank everybody that contributed to this
11:24:56 project.
11:24:57 In particular I want to recognize Tony Rodriguez who
11:25:00 just left, and Cathy Coyle for their outstanding work
11:25:04 and perseverance.
11:25:07 Tony has been involved with this since he nominated
11:25:08 the project several years ago.
11:25:10 People came and left, and we had to keep pushing
11:25:14 forward.
11:25:14 And Cathy came in.
11:25:15 She took the bull by the horns and made this project
11:25:18 go.
11:25:18 So between the mayor and everybody involved, thank you
11:25:20 very much.
11:25:24 The recommendations that are coming out of this study
11:25:26 are going to be win-win for the base and for the
11:25:29 community.
11:25:30 And I can item you right now this is going to be a
11:25:32 model study that I am going to use, a case study, to
11:25:36 share with other communities that we are going to do
11:25:38 these projects with throughout the country.
11:25:40 Again, thank you very much.

11:25:46 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Thank you, council.
11:25:47 Finally, based on the recommendations that were given,
11:25:50 just a note, item number 28 on the agenda is
11:25:54 recognition of a grant that we received from
11:25:56 enterprise Florida to purchase a piece of property in
11:25:58 the clear zone.
11:25:59 So we are actively seeking those types of purchases of
11:26:06 property, and efforts to limit the encroachment next
11:26:10 to the base.
11:26:11 Finally, referring to 5.0 in the book which are the
11:26:16 study recommendations, in that tab you will see the
11:26:18 land use recommendations.
11:26:20 These are actual policy changes that will be submitted
11:26:23 to the Planning Commission to change the policy,
11:26:26 future land use element as it relates to MacDill
11:26:28 Air Force Base, creating a new land use category,
11:26:32 which is titled military installation airport.
11:26:35 It is similar to the municipal airport, land use
11:26:39 designation that surrounds TIA with the exception of
11:26:41 its focus on a military installation, and with a
11:26:45 motion from you, we would like to transmit those
11:26:47 policy changes to the Planning Commission for the

11:26:49 August 1 deadline.
11:26:51 And the motion will be to accept the study as
11:26:53 presented, and request the administration to transmit
11:26:56 the proposed comprehensive plan, map and text
11:26:59 amendments to the Planning Commission by the August
11:27:00 1st deadline.
11:27:01 We obviously are here for any questions or any
11:27:05 additional information that you may need.
11:27:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Congratulations to everyone.
11:27:09 This is great work.
11:27:10 I have one small question.
11:27:12 On the street signage program, could somebody
11:27:16 elaborate on that?
11:27:17 >>CATHERINE COYLE: That has been a recommendation that
11:27:19 we have done on other studies as well, a long-term
11:27:22 recommendation.
11:27:22 It's similar, I would say, to when you enter beach
11:27:26 front communities where they have hurricane evacuation
11:27:28 signage, throughout the area.
11:27:31 There was some debate over what the actual logo would
11:27:34 be for an accident potential zone.
11:27:36 It is a long-term goal.

11:27:38 It's not one that we would enact on immediately.
11:27:45 >> Some more conversation about that, think the idea
11:27:49 of saying duck -- there's probably nothing that you
11:27:54 can do about it.
11:27:55 I don't know that we want to necessarily put up signs.
11:27:59 I just hope future conversation.
11:28:02 >>> Definitely noted.
11:28:07 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I would like to congratulate everybody
11:28:09 that was involved in this, too.
11:28:11 And, John, thank you for being part of it.
11:28:15 One question I did have was in the APG 1 and 2 --
11:28:20 APZ-1 and 2, the different single-family homes there
11:28:24 now, the duplex and multifamily, aren't those mostly
11:28:28 personnel, MacDill Air Force personnel
11:28:34 >>CATHERINE COYLE: No, this is off base, north of the
11:28:36 northern boundary of the base on private property.
11:28:38 I can't see if there are military people that own
11:28:40 homes in there.
11:28:41 A lot of them are retired military, I would say.
11:28:43 But whoever happens to own that property.
11:28:46 There is a map in tab 5 which shows the land use
11:28:49 change.

11:28:50 It's exhibit 5.1.
11:28:53 5-1.
11:28:54 I can put it on the Elmo.
11:28:59 The APZ.
11:29:14 The wavy line happens to be the noise contour for the
11:29:18 plan.
11:29:19 Which changes over time as different aircraft come in.
11:29:24 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I was under the impression -- thank
11:29:31 you.
11:29:33 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Cathy, could you go back to the
11:29:35 previous screen?
11:29:38 >>> The previous screen?
11:29:39 Oh, on the PowerPoint.
11:29:42 >>SHAWN HARRISON: There we go.
11:29:43 I'm glad to see that we are looking into a land
11:29:47 acquisition program.
11:29:48 I think that's important if we are going to be
11:29:50 impacting potential future property rights.
11:29:53 And that should come frankly from the federal
11:29:56 government as well as from us.
11:29:59 I think we should be aggressive in looking for funding
11:30:02 from national government for that.

11:30:06 I think that, Mary, I appreciate your words earlier,
11:30:12 that existing property rights will not be impacted.
11:30:15 That's important.
11:30:15 I think we all agree with that.
11:30:17 And as we all understand the protection of MacDill
11:30:21 Air Force Base is probably the most paramount thing
11:30:24 that we can do here within the city.
11:30:28 So I think this is -- we are proceeding along the
11:30:31 right lines and look forward to the public hearings.
11:30:34 We need to hear from the folks that will be really
11:30:36 impacted on it.
11:30:39 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I did provide with you the
11:30:40 implementation schedule.
11:30:41 And it shows you the schedule of all these potential
11:30:48 tentative dates from the public hearing.
11:30:49 I even included the agenda routing as application.
11:30:54 And it's slated for completion of the area-wide
11:30:56 rezoning January 25th, 2007.
11:31:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It's been almost about a year, I
11:31:07 guess, that we have been working on this, or more than
11:31:09 a year.
11:31:10 And it has been a great partnership.

11:31:11 I want to express my thanks to the mayor for all their
11:31:15 hard work and for putting me on the committee.
11:31:18 It's been great to work with you and with the colonel
11:31:21 and with Commissioner Castor, as the committee
11:31:24 members.
11:31:26 Great staff including Mr. Tanga, Cathy Coyle, John
11:31:32 Larocca and all the other staff members that worked on
11:31:32 it. I want to emphasize what the mayor said.
11:31:35 There are some dedicated citizens.
11:31:36 They attended every single meeting we had.
11:31:38 They had their own meetings on their own that we
11:31:40 didn't attend.
11:31:41 They put in more hours than we did. And, Mayor, you
11:31:47 recognized them.
11:31:48 As the mayor indicated this is not only about
11:31:50 protecting MacDill and all the economic and great
11:31:53 things that MacDill does for our community, but
11:31:56 also about protecting our residents.
11:31:59 I think as we deliberated during the last year, we
11:32:01 addressed both of those issues very, very seriously,
11:32:04 and with great care.
11:32:09 And we have we reached some compromises, kind of as we

11:32:15 do on council.
11:32:15 And I think it's a good plan.
11:32:17 So with that, I'll go ahead and if it's time I'll make
11:32:22 a motion that we transmit the initial package of
11:32:24 comprehensive plan changes to the Planning Commission
11:32:27 for their review.
11:32:29 >> Second.
11:32:29 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
11:32:31 (Motion carried).
11:32:31 >>ROSE FERLITA: I just wanted to make pretty much the
11:32:36 same compliments.
11:32:38 Mayor, this is a great plan and great joint effort.
11:32:41 And I think it certainly keeps the community to show
11:32:45 our military that we do everything we can to protect
11:32:48 that area.
11:32:48 We don't want them to ever be on any kind of list that
11:32:51 we don't want them to be on, they don't wanted to be
11:32:53 on, and briefly thanks to the committee that worked on
11:32:56 it, John, you as well.
11:32:58 But a comment that colonel Woodward made as she's
11:33:01 leaving that she was surprised that she's getting the
11:33:03 cooperation from this community that she does.

11:33:06 I think leadership attracts leadership.
11:33:08 And Maggie is a friend of mine and the quiet
11:33:14 leadership that she has certainly demand it is respect
11:33:17 of the troops she leads and the relationship she has
11:33:20 created with the mayor.
11:33:21 It's an incredible win-win all the way around.
11:33:24 Thanks to everybody.
11:33:25 This is a security issue that has to be right at the
11:33:27 top of our list.
11:33:28 And I think this committee has addressed it, addressed
11:33:31 it well, addressed it effectively, and I think clear
11:33:33 message, we are her to support MacDill, and
11:33:36 MacDill understands it, and the City of Tampa and
11:33:38 the administration that leads this city, they have a
11:33:41 partnership and they are very welcome.
11:33:45 Mayor, thank you.
11:33:47 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Thank you, mayor.
11:33:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Anything else?
11:33:49 We move on then.
11:33:51 Item number 52 is a continued public hearing.
11:33:57 >>HEATHER LAMBOY: Land development.
11:34:05 I have been sworn.

11:34:07 First of all, I have been trying -- I still have
11:34:12 several objections.
11:34:13 And I haven't been able to find the petitioner.
11:34:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Is the petitioner here for item number
11:34:17 52?
11:34:20 Item 52.
11:34:21 Is petitioner here?
11:34:23 >>ROSE FERLITA: Move to continue.
11:34:26 >>> Staff would like to request a continuance.
11:34:32 It was heard June 8th.
11:34:34 There were technical issues the petitioner needed to
11:34:36 deal with.
11:34:36 I got a revised site plan that dealt with the
11:34:40 landscape objections but nothing else.
11:34:42 And --
11:34:49 >>ROSE FERLITA: Are you petitioner?
11:34:52 Are you the petitioner?
11:35:00 Do you need to still talk with him?
11:35:03 >>HEATHER LAMBOY: If we can go to the next case and I
11:35:05 can talk with him.
11:35:07 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to open number 53.
11:35:11 >>: Move to open.

11:35:12 >> Second.
11:35:12 (Motion carried)
11:35:19 >>> I'm here to present WZ 06-60, for 1241 east Fowler
11:35:26 Avenue.
11:35:26 The petitioner is requesting for a 4(COP-X), sale of
11:35:31 alcohol on the premises only.
11:35:34 The location was previously wet zoned by the petition
11:35:40 WZ 06-127, and (COP-X).
11:35:52 He would like to add the porch and wet zone the porch.
11:36:01 The wet zone establishment in the 1,000 feet, you can
11:36:04 see there are two wet zoned properties.
11:36:07 One is COP, the other COP-R.
11:36:21 Provision for the City Council to waive the distance
11:36:24 requirements.
11:36:25 Residential establishment.
11:36:31 We have no objection.
11:36:33 The application was for the Tampa Police Department
11:36:33 for their review.
11:36:39 >>> Officer Miller, Tampa Police Department.
11:36:45 I have been sworn.
11:36:45 We have no objections to this wet zoning.
11:36:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?

11:36:49 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Here on behalf of Alexander
11:36:56 redevelopment company.
11:36:57 As the staff has indicated there was an error on the
11:37:00 survey which omitted the porch and ware asking that
11:37:02 the porch be included in the wet zoning.
11:37:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
11:37:09 wants to speak on item 53?
11:37:11 >> Move to close.
11:37:12 >> Second.
11:37:12 (Motion carried).
11:37:13 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Move an ordinance repealing
11:37:27 ordinance 2005-339 making lawful the sale of beverages
11:37:31 regardless of alcoholic content beer, wine and liquor
11:37:34 4(COP-X) for consumption on premises only at or from
11:37:37 that certain lot, plot or tract of land located at
11:37:40 1241 east Fowler Avenue, Tampa, Florida, as more
11:37:43 particularly described in section 3 hereof waiving
11:37:46 certain restrictions as to distance based upon certain
11:37:48 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
11:37:51 conflict, providing an effective date.
11:37:52 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
11:37:54 (Motion carried).

11:37:59 >> Move to open 54.
11:38:01 >> Second.
11:38:01 (Motion carried)
11:38:09 >> The next case is wet zoning for the location at
11:38:15 1705 -- 17503-D preserve walk lane.
11:38:22 Sale of alcohol.
11:38:26 There are three wet zoned properties that we can see.
11:38:31 There are no additional institutional properties
11:38:35 within 1,000 feet.
11:38:38 You can also waive the distance requirements by the
11:38:41 provision of the code.
11:38:54 >>> City of Tampa police department.
11:38:56 I have been sworn.
11:38:57 We have in a objections to this wet zone.
11:38:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
11:39:00 Petitioner?
11:39:07 >>> My name is WAI SHIK Chan.
11:39:13 I am applying for the wine and beer license.
11:39:25 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I have a question.
11:39:27 Which place is this now?
11:39:29 What's in there right now?
11:39:31 >>> It is a Japanese restaurant, a sushi bar and

11:39:35 kitchen.
11:39:38 >>SHAWN HARRISON: An existing Japanese restaurant?
11:39:40 >>> Yes.
11:39:41 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I missed that one.
11:39:44 That's not where the old Krispy Kreme is, is it?
11:39:49 >>> We are across the street from the Krispy Kreme.
11:39:52 >> Oh, all right.
11:39:55 >>> Is there anyone in the public that wants to speak
11:39:57 on item 54?
11:40:00 >> Move to close.
11:40:01 >> Second.
11:40:01 (Motion carried).
11:40:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
11:40:08 I would like to move an ordinance re-- for the sale of
11:40:13 alcoholic beverages containing alcohol not more than
11:40:16 14% by weight wines regardless of alcoholic content
11:40:19 beer and wine 2(COP-R) for couples on premises only in
11:40:23 conjunction with a restaurant business establishment
11:40:25 at or from that certain lot, plot or tract of land,
11:40:27 located at 17503-D, preserve walk lane, waiving
11:40:36 certain restrictions as to distance based on certain
11:40:38 findings providing for repeal of all ordinances in

11:40:41 conflict, providing an effective date.
11:40:42 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
11:40:43 (Motion carried).
11:40:46 >> Move to open number 55.
11:40:48 >> Second.
11:40:48 (Motion carried).
11:40:49 >>GWEN MILLER: It passed.
11:40:59 >>> The next case is WZ-06-79, 2807 Busch Boulevard.
11:41:12 The petitioner is requesting a one-year extension on
11:41:14 the wet zoning.
11:41:17 In 1996-96 was granted 4(COP-R) on-site and 120 day
11:41:25 extension expired on the 29th of March 2006.
11:41:31 The petitioner is requesting the extension in order to
11:41:34 continue the wet zoning during the exchange of the
11:41:36 ownership.
11:41:43 City Council can grant one year extension.
11:41:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This is a question for legal.
11:41:49 When someone requests an extension, is the
11:41:53 neighborhood organization notified of that request for
11:41:56 extension?
11:42:00 >>> Yes, the code does require notification to the
11:42:03 surrounding property owners.

11:42:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's great because this is an
11:42:07 opportunity if somebody has been a problem for the
11:42:09 neighborhood for them to speak up.
11:42:10 I'm glad to hear that they are notified.
11:42:12 Thank you.
11:42:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you want to comment?
11:42:15 >>> Yes, sir.
11:42:16 City of Tampa police department.
11:42:17 I have been sworn.
11:42:18 Once again we have no objection to this project.
11:42:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
11:42:24 wants to speak?
11:42:25 Petitioner?
11:42:37 >>> Joseph Paleo, north 27th street.
11:42:41 I have been sworn.
11:42:41 This is my wife Jean Busch Paleo.
11:42:47 Can we speak at the same time?
11:42:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Sure.
11:42:49 Give your name.
11:42:51 >>> I don't know if you want to hear from petitioner
11:42:53 first and then go ahead.
11:42:56 >> We don't want to miss the opportunity.

11:43:03 >>CHAIRMAN: Let's see what he has to say first.
11:43:09 >>> Good morning, council members.
11:43:10 My name is Chris swank for the record, Carlton Fields,
11:43:14 address 4221 west Boy Scout Boulevard.
11:43:17 I have been sworn.
11:43:18 Here representing the petitioner, Tampa real estate
11:43:21 holdings, LLC, requesting a petition to extend for
11:43:32 beverages at the corner of 2807 Busch Boulevard for a
11:43:34 period of one year to allow for the sale of the
11:43:37 property.
11:43:39 We are hear to answer any questions or any concerns
11:43:41 with the -- that the neighbors may have.
11:43:44 If you folks have any questions I'm here with
11:43:46 representatives of the petitioner as well.
11:43:49 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Do you have a pending contract on
11:43:51 this?
11:43:53 >>> We do, ma'am.
11:43:54 That's correct.
11:43:56 >> You do. Okay.
11:43:57 >>GWEN MILLER: You may come back up.
11:44:00 Mr. Poleo.
11:44:03 >>> Thank you, councilwoman.

11:44:07 As I stated originally, me and my wife have no
11:44:13 objections to the zoning being continued on this
11:44:15 property as a 4(COP-R), and the property being
11:44:18 operated as it was intended, as a residence.
11:44:22 We ran into a problem, and the previous owners went
11:44:28 outside the guidelines of the 4(COP-R) and operated as
11:44:31 a regular 4(COP) as a lounge and nature club playing
11:44:34 music till 3:00 in the morning.
11:44:36 I believe this gentleman addressed one of my concerns
11:44:38 where he asked for the zoning to be on a conditional
11:44:41 one-year basis.
11:44:42 And we are hopeful within the one-year period of time
11:44:45 that they stay within the constraints.
11:44:46 The neighbor next to them happens to be a national
11:44:49 Italian restaurant.
11:44:50 We have no problem with them, because they normally
11:44:53 operate, and they do -- normally operate within normal
11:44:57 business hours.
11:44:58 And they don't have this loud music like we had once
11:45:01 before.
11:45:01 So we just wanted to address our concerns, if it was
11:45:04 going to be operated as a lounge, which we understand

11:45:07 at this point it is not.
11:45:08 We want to make sure that some safeguards are in place
11:45:11 to make sure it doesn't get that way.
11:45:18 >>> When it was converted to a lounge, they never made
11:45:20 any changes to the acoustics.
11:45:25 It changed the entrance to the side, which the sound
11:45:31 came right into our back doors, our sliding back
11:45:34 doors, vibrated he have night until 3:00 in the
11:45:37 morning.
11:45:40 But if there's going to be a band, that some
11:45:42 acoustics, acoustical changes could be made so that it
11:45:47 would not be the noise, it would not disturb the whole
11:45:51 neighborhood.
11:45:53 We welcome it being reopened.
11:45:55 It would be better to have a good neighbor and have it
11:45:58 occupied.
11:45:59 But we would like for it to be -- for the changes to
11:46:04 be made, if there is music, for it to be -- not so
11:46:14 loud that we can't sleep.
11:46:17 But we would welcome a good neighbor.
11:46:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:46:22 Ms. Saul-Sena.

11:46:23 Mr. Harrison?
11:46:25 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I don't know that you are offering
11:46:27 to them what you think they are offering to them.
11:46:31 >>> I think I can ALLAY their concerns.
11:46:35 Not prayer owner but prior tenant.
11:46:37 They were leasing the property to a group that
11:46:41 operated as a phase 2, a club, and we had a lot of
11:46:45 problems with them.
11:46:46 We had to evict that tenant.
11:46:50 And that's enough of the story there.
11:46:51 So we are aware of those issues and we got rid of the
11:46:54 tenant.
11:46:54 Going forward, I believe the property is going to be
11:47:00 operated as a hotel restaurant.
11:47:02 So it will be a compatible use.
11:47:04 And I don't think music is contemplated.
11:47:11 >>SHAWN HARRISON: A hotel restaurant?
11:47:12 >>> A hotel and attendant restaurant use.
11:47:21 >>MARY ALVAREZ: What hotel is that?
11:47:23 >> I just know that's the prospective use.
11:47:28 >> On that particular property?
11:47:30 >>> It's proposed.

11:47:32 >> Bed and breakfast.
11:47:35 >>SHAWN HARRISON: If it's truly going to be a
11:47:36 restaurant, we can impose some hour restrictions on
11:47:40 it.
11:47:41 And I don't think that's before us right now.
11:47:43 We would have to send this back to legal to create a
11:47:46 new ordinance.
11:47:47 The safest route for to us go is do a one-year
11:47:51 conditional on this.
11:47:51 That gives you a chance to sell it.
11:47:53 It has a wet zoning.
11:47:55 But the new owner will have to come in in a year and
11:47:58 say this is what I'm doing here, and this is -- the
11:48:02 neighbors will have a chance to come back in and say,
11:48:04 okay, yes, these guys are good neighbors, and we are
11:48:07 willing to go for a full, you know, 4(COP-R) rather
11:48:10 than one-year conditional.
11:48:14 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department. The application
11:48:15 that's before you is actually not a new application
11:48:18 for wet zoning.
11:48:19 It's an application to be able to continue despite the
11:48:21 fact they are not at the present time having sales of

11:48:25 alcoholic beverages.
11:48:25 So they are asking for a year to be able to retain the
11:48:30 sales of alcoholic beverages.
11:48:32 There isn't an opportunity, because this is not a knew
11:48:34 ordinance.
11:48:35 It's actually just a resolution to for a continuance
11:48:42 or make it conditional.
11:48:43 If the applicant shows good cause why they should be
11:48:46 able to continue operating under the ordinance that's
11:48:50 already been adopted.
11:48:53 >>SHAWN HARRISON: So they can't even ask for a
11:48:55 conditional on this?
11:48:57 >>> That's not before you.
11:48:58 It's not a new ordinance.
11:48:59 It's simply a resolution that would allow them to
11:49:02 waive one of the provisions of your code which
11:49:04 requires that they don't sell alcoholic beverages for
11:49:09 more than 30 days.
11:49:10 It's just not in position before you.
11:49:13 >> So we vote it up or down.
11:49:15 Those are our only two options?
11:49:17 >>> That's correct.

11:49:17 >>ROSE FERLITA: I would like to get some direction
11:49:23 from legal.
11:49:24 And this has been a problem, certainly not this
11:49:26 gentleman's fault, but that the Paleo's continued to
11:49:34 complain on this.
11:49:36 Many times we give an extension so it won't dry out.
11:49:38 But if somebody comes in ---is it a 4(COP)?
11:49:43 >> It's currently a 4(COP-R) and so they would be
11:49:46 required to give reporting requirements to demonstrate
11:49:48 they are operating as a restaurant with a 51% food and
11:49:52 nonalcoholic beverage sales.
11:49:53 And as far as the issue of noise, there are the noise
11:49:57 regulations that are in place.
11:49:58 And if in fact there are violations of that, your code
11:50:01 does allow you -- right now it does allow you to
11:50:06 revoke a wet zoning if there are --
11:50:09 >>ROSE FERLITA: that the past tenant was able to do
11:50:13 what they did if it was an R.
11:50:15 I didn't realize that.
11:50:16 >>> That might have been an enforcement issue.
11:50:20 >>ROSE FERLITA: Not enough of an enforcement issue.
11:50:23 Then, Mr. Harrison, these are the options we have, to

11:50:25 give them the opportunity to extend this so that it
11:50:27 won't dry up and they don't have to go through the
11:50:29 whole process.
11:50:30 But when somebody else comes in, at that point,
11:50:33 because it is just a continuance of an existing
11:50:37 4(COP-R), would we be able to impose any particular
11:50:40 restrictions or ask the tenant to self-impose any
11:50:44 restrictions so that we feel good about protecting
11:50:46 them so they don't run into the same mess they were in
11:50:49 last time?
11:50:50 >>> If City Council continues to have additional time,
11:50:55 not selling alcoholic beverages, then it won't come
11:50:58 back before you.
11:51:00 >> Okay.
11:51:01 Then I want to tell you, I think we need to hear the
11:51:05 rest -- that concerns me, because I think given the
11:51:07 history, and not that it's this gentleman's fault or
11:51:10 the new tenant coming forward, if bee go that route we
11:51:14 won't be able to exercise any kind of mechanism to
11:51:16 give them some protection or ask the new tenant or the
11:51:19 new group that's coming in to self-impose some
11:51:22 conditions.

11:51:23 They would just go on, Julia, right?
11:51:26 They just reactivate.
11:51:29 From the standpoint of information it is a 4(COP-R).
11:51:32 But is it a 4(COP) -- is it wet zoned based on the
11:51:37 footprint of the building, or the footprint of the
11:51:39 property?
11:51:41 And if it's on the property, then, sir, depending on
11:51:46 who the tenant is and the desire to rent it, they will
11:51:50 be able to reconfigure the building.
11:51:55 Could be bigger.
11:51:56 Could be the same.
11:51:56 If it's the footprint of the property, that is
11:51:58 important to me.
11:52:02 >>> I am going to ask staff to review that issue and I
11:52:04 just call to the attention of the City Council that
11:52:06 you do have regulation that a property does run dry,
11:52:10 but I believe there's a six-month waiting period
11:52:12 before they can come back.
11:52:19 >>> The wet zoning by the previous owner.
11:52:28 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
11:52:43 The exterior perimeter of the proposed building, it's
11:52:46 only the building footprint, et.

11:52:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a couple questions of the
11:52:51 petitioner.
11:52:52 First of all, what kind of protection is there in
11:52:56 terms of masonry wall or something between yourself
11:52:59 and the neighbors to the south?
11:53:03 >> The representative of the petitioner might be
11:53:04 better to address that.
11:53:08 He's more familiar with the property than I am.
11:53:12 >> Fred Bullard, 1019 fifteenth Avenue north,
11:53:17 St. Petersburg.
11:53:17 The surrounding property, there's a hotel --
11:53:20 >> No, that wasn't my question.
11:53:22 Immediately to the south of the property, what kind of
11:53:26 masonry wall?
11:53:28 >>> To the south?
11:53:29 The rear of the property?
11:53:32 I don't know if there's a solid wall there.
11:53:35 There may just be foliage.
11:53:37 I'm not positive.
11:53:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Another question.
11:53:40 How long did you have the previous tenant and did you
11:53:43 know that they are going to be doing a lounge?

11:53:45 >>> No, they proposed a restaurant operation serving
11:53:48 liquor.
11:53:53 But we didn't find out until after they --
11:53:57 >> Don't you communicate with them that their zoning
11:54:00 was restricted?
11:54:02 >> I think they knew that when they took it on.
11:54:04 >> How long were they your tenant?
11:54:05 >> They were there for about, I think, a year.
11:54:08 >> Well, for a year, they had this lounge that --
11:54:12 >>KEVIN WHITE: Just for clarification, it was a
11:54:14 restaurant as well.
11:54:17 >>> Yeah, they were selling food but I don't think
11:54:19 they were meeting the food requirements which is
11:54:21 somebody was saying earlier.
11:54:23 >> As a property owner were you aware of the noise
11:54:25 complaints?
11:54:26 >>> No.
11:54:26 No.
11:54:27 >> You didn't receive notification?
11:54:30 >>> No.
11:54:30 Not that I'm aware of.
11:54:34 >> How in tune are you with this this?

11:54:40 >>> I'm not sure if I understand the question.
11:54:43 >> How often did you communicate with your tenants?
11:54:45 >>> Well the deal originally was they had an option to
11:54:47 purchase the property.
11:54:48 So as tenants, we were considering them basically on
11:54:54 contract to purchase.
11:54:54 They defaulted on that contract.
11:54:57 >> It sounds like you fired them.
11:54:58 >>> Well, they didn't consummate the purchase so we
11:55:00 terminated their tenancy, from the financial
11:55:07 standpoint and we heard that -- actually through the
11:55:12 newspaper I found out that they were having problems
11:55:16 they were having problems with neighbors or whatever.
11:55:18 >>ROSE FERLITA: I just have a question.
11:55:19 I don't mean to barge in on Ms. Saul-Sena's questions.
11:55:23 But that really concerns me.
11:55:24 We have gotten lots of complaints.
11:55:28 Ms. Paleo were concerned because of the disruption of
11:55:33 their tranquillity.
11:55:34 Do you represent a corporation?
11:55:36 >>> No, we are just owners of the property.
11:55:39 >> And you tell me you never got notices from this

11:55:41 city with regards to concerns and noise, or code
11:55:44 violations?
11:55:45 >>> I'm not aware of any notification was given.
11:55:47 >> Well, when you are saying you are not aware, was
11:55:50 there anybody that is involved with this with you that
11:55:52 may have gotten those notices?
11:55:54 >>> It's possible, but you guys probably have record,
11:55:57 I would assume.
11:55:57 >> Well, no, no, but I'm concerned about you having a
11:56:00 record.
11:56:00 You're the property owner.
11:56:01 >>> Right.
11:56:02 >> So you're saying that you didn't.
11:56:03 But are there some other people that are involved from
11:56:05 the standpoint of ownership that could have?
11:56:07 Are there some other people --
11:56:09 >>> Possible.
11:56:09 >> Are there other people involved in the ownership
11:56:12 with you?
11:56:12 Yes or no?
11:56:13 >>> Yeah.
11:56:14 I mean, no.

11:56:15 I'm not --
11:56:16 >> If you're the owner, then there's a code, notice of
11:56:20 violation, it's my understanding the owner gets that
11:56:22 notice of violation.
11:56:23 >>> Uh-huh.
11:56:24 >> Are you representing somebody else?
11:56:26 Or do you own it.
11:56:27 >>> My father is the owner of the building.
11:56:29 Tess shareholder of the company.
11:56:31 He's the primary shareholder of the company.
11:56:33 >> Okay.
11:56:34 So there is a company.
11:56:35 And somebody acts in a capacity of leadership and or
11:56:37 your father should have gotten a notice.
11:56:39 >>> I did not receive any -- I'm not aware of him
11:56:42 receiving any.
11:56:43 >> Okay, then listen, I am not going to debate it
11:56:45 anymore.
11:56:46 You say somebody may have could have, should have,
11:56:49 did, didn't, I don't know. But we have been in
11:56:51 contact with these people for a long time there. Were
11:56:53 ongoing problems.

11:56:54 I think where Mrs. Saul-Sena is going, if somebody --
11:56:57 and Linda, correct me if I am wrong.
11:56:58 I don't want to put your words in your mouth.
11:57:01 But if you are an owner and you have continuous
11:57:04 violations for who has not been keeping to the
11:57:07 guidelines of the 4(COP-R) because of the percentage
11:57:10 and they have been a nuisance to the neighborhood and
11:57:12 you haven't gotten a notice and you are not aware that
11:57:14 anybody else in your ownership umbrella got it, that
11:57:18 to me tells me that I want some control of what we are
11:57:20 going to help you put in there later.
11:57:22 We are talking about conceptually somebody who will
11:57:25 come in and do a 4(COP-R), and I haven't heard from
11:57:30 this council member's standpoint anyway enough
11:57:33 evidence that tells me I'm comfortable with what you
11:57:35 all are going to choose to put in there.
11:57:37 So I'm not going to support an extension.
11:57:39 I just want to you know that.
11:57:40 I'm sorry, Linda.
11:57:46 >>> Council members, if I could, please.
11:57:47 If there's a concern about this, I think we would be
11:57:50 more than willing to put forward, you know, the --

11:57:56 continuance of the use for a year to allow the can
11:57:59 consummation of the sale and if we could come back,
11:58:01 once we have established, have petitioner come back
11:58:03 after a year, the new owner come back after a year and
11:58:06 talk about it, I think --
11:58:08 >>ROSE FERLITA: I happen to agree with you, given the
11:58:11 circumstances, that preceded this conversation.
11:58:13 But many times this council has been very amenable to
11:58:17 not allowing the property to dry up, so that you can
11:58:19 go forward and do something else.
11:58:22 But in this particular process, what happens based on
11:58:26 our decision, very nebulous, I think it would be very
11:58:29 irresponsible given the dialogue that we have, nothing
11:58:32 personal.
11:58:32 I think I just need to see what we are voting on as
11:58:35 opposed to what we could be voting on.
11:58:39 >> And if you want to grant the discontinuance to to
11:58:42 allow for the --
11:58:44 >>ROSE FERLITA: I can't speak for anybody else but
11:58:47 again for the last time given the history, I think
11:58:49 that's the prudent way to go.
11:58:51 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Way was going to say is they are

11:58:53 trying to help you out on this situation here.
11:58:56 But it seems to me like Ms. Saul-Sena and Ms. Ferlita
11:59:01 say, there's just a lot of unanswered questions here,
11:59:04 and you are really not making it easy for us to do.
11:59:06 So the thing to do then is to go ahead and
11:59:09 discontinue.
11:59:10 Because way see here on the report is that the
11:59:12 extension of time is authorized for a period of one
11:59:16 year.
11:59:17 So maybe what you all need to do is just cool your
11:59:21 heels, sell your property and then have somebody come
11:59:23 back to us.
11:59:24 >>> And let me be clear about way was requesting
11:59:27 actually from council, is that you allow the
11:59:30 discontinuance for a one-year period of time, in which
11:59:33 time the petitioner could reestablish the use, and
11:59:37 then once it is reestablished, if you want the new
11:59:39 owner to come back before you a year after that --
11:59:46 >> That will be up to the new owner.
11:59:48 >>> But it's not a new petition it would be.
11:59:51 >>GWEN MILLER: We need a motion.
11:59:54 >> Real quick.

11:59:55 I don't -- -- this year on council, and it's been
12:00:08 before code enforcement.
12:00:09 I don't know why you would have gotten notice.
12:00:12 >> I think the tenants came before you.
12:00:15 I wasn't aware they were coming in for that.
12:00:17 >> Then that goes back to Ms. Ferlita's question of
12:00:19 who got noticed.
12:00:26 Somebody had to have -- the owner, whoever is owner of
12:00:29 record had to have given to the tenant that you all
12:00:31 would be dealing with the situation.
12:00:34 >>> I'm just not aware of it.
12:00:35 >>ROSE FERLITA: Is your mailing address --
12:00:39 >>> Yes, ma'am.
12:00:39 >> It's not possible somebody from that establishment
12:00:41 got those notices, subsequent to the complaints we got
12:00:43 from the neighbors.
12:00:44 Here it is.
12:00:45 Rob Turner had information.
12:00:47 You may not have read it but it gives us enough reason
12:00:50 for pause in terms of continuing this.
12:00:51 So there it is.
12:00:53 >>GWEN MILLER: We need a motion.

12:00:55 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Move to close.
12:00:57 >> Second.
12:00:57 >>MARY ALVAREZ: We have to close the public hearing
12:01:00 first.
12:01:02 >>GWEN MILLER: We are going to continue or close it?
12:01:09 (speaking over one another)
12:01:13 We need to continue.
12:01:15 >> For the continuance.
12:01:16 >> You're asking for an extension of time.
12:01:20 You get an active customer, client in there that can
12:01:24 reestablish the wet zoning.
12:01:26 Because we are not allowing to you extend that time.
12:01:29 Then what happens is when that tenant goes in they
12:01:34 come back and ask for a new wet zoning application.
12:01:36 It starts all over again.
12:01:37 Then we know who we are dealing W. we don't know they
12:01:40 even got notices.
12:01:41 So how do I know who you are going to put in there?
12:01:44 That would be irresponsible given the history.
12:01:49 >>> And I understand the concern.
12:01:51 It has been discontinued.
12:01:52 The use has been discontinued.

12:01:54 There is a 120-day administrative discontinuance that
12:01:57 was allowed.
12:01:57 We are asking for continuance of one -- discontinuance
12:02:02 for one year.
12:02:02 It can be reestablished.
12:02:04 If you want to place the condition on that.
12:02:07 >>> We are not approving any extension of time give an
12:02:11 appropriate date after a certain amount of time
12:02:12 elapses it will come to the council that's here at
12:02:15 that time as a new application.
12:02:17 Then that council, the sitting council at that time,
12:02:20 and a new application, not an extension of this one,
12:02:23 then will be able to decide, is it appropriate?
12:02:25 Is it compatible?
12:02:28 These things we can control to hours of operation and
12:02:31 those types of things.
12:02:32 At that point since it will be a new application, the
12:02:34 people that have been affected by the current -- the
12:02:38 client that was there before can weigh in on it.
12:02:40 Otherwise, we can't take any kind of action to assure
12:02:43 ourselves that we are acting responsibly.
12:02:45 >>> I think could you just put a condition.

12:02:48 >> No, we can't.
12:02:51 A continuance of an existing -- to not let it dry up.
12:02:59 But I'm telling you it's going to dry up and you are
12:03:01 going to come back.
12:03:04 >> Move to close the public hearing.
12:03:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to close the public
12:03:07 hearing.
12:03:07 Question on the motion.
12:03:08 Ms. Cole.
12:03:08 >>JULIA COLE: I wanted to make sure everybody is clear
12:03:11 on what is going on.
12:03:13 And I I'm not sure that he's clear.
12:03:20 What's in front of council is a resolution that would
12:03:22 allow you to extend the date of your current wet
12:03:25 zoning.
12:03:27 If council denies that, then you're dry.
12:03:30 The only option would be for to you come back -- and
12:03:34 correct me if I am wrong -- a six-month period with a
12:03:37 new request, and a new wet zoning.
12:03:39 That's what council will be asking them.
12:03:42 I just want to make sure it was Clare for the
12:03:44 applicant.

12:03:44 >>Rose Ferlita: He keeps saying a year.
12:03:46 It's a six-month waiting period.
12:03:48 >>>
12:03:49 >> I believe it's a six-month waiting period, a new
12:03:52 application for a wet zoning can come forward before
12:03:54 council.
12:03:56 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second to close
12:03:57 the public hearing.
12:03:58 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
12:04:00 (Motion carried).
12:04:01 >>ROSE FERLITA: Move to deny the extension of time
12:04:03 requested by the applicant.
12:04:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
12:04:06 (Motion carried).
12:04:12 >> Move to open number 56.
12:04:13 >> I believe under your rules at this point -- to come
12:04:22 back at 1:30.
12:04:23 We stand adjourned until 1:30.
12:04:25




12:04:25 (Tampa City Council reconvened)
13:37:07 [Sounding gavel]
13:37:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Tampa City Council is called back to
13:37:09 order.
13:37:09 Roll call.
13:37:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
13:37:12 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Here.
13:37:13 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Here.
13:37:14 >>KEVIN WHITE: Here.
13:37:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
13:37:16 Before we go on to our agenda, we have some unfinished
13:37:20 business from this morning.
13:37:22 Mr. Smith.
13:37:24 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
13:37:26 The issue that came up from this morning's agenda that
13:37:29 you asked me to look into was the issue of chapter 27,
13:37:34 and what we did.
13:37:35 So what I was able to do is pull the transcripts, and
13:37:39 the transcripts at this juncture are those that are
13:37:41 prepared for the hearing impaired, the ones that you
13:37:45 see going underneath the picture.
13:37:49 If you happen to have time to watch that.

13:37:52 They are not always exactly precise but they do catch
13:37:54 most of it.
13:37:56 The problem is that the motion that Mr. Harrison made
13:38:01 did not include 27-98.
13:38:03 It was 27-132, 27-137, 27-323 and 27-151.
13:38:11 But you did come back at the evening meeting.
13:38:15 Again the problem is at the evening meeting, the
13:38:17 ordinance that was read by Mr. Dingfelder included
13:38:20 27-98.
13:38:22 Let me suggest the solution.
13:38:24 I think we can use.
13:38:26 You have instructed the staff to come back to you in
13:38:29 30 days.
13:38:30 That was a week ago, on the specifically identified
13:38:34 areas.
13:38:34 Nothing prevents you from taking up 27-98 at that
13:38:37 time.
13:38:38 If you choose to make an amendment to the ordinance to
13:38:40 add back in any of the provisions that you excluded,
13:38:44 or add them back in, tailored, altered or modified you
13:38:48 are in essence amending the ordinance, we can do
13:38:50 whatever we want to do with 98 at that time.

13:38:54 That's the only -- unless somebody files an
13:38:59 application within the next 28, 22 days, whatever the
13:39:04 time period is.
13:39:04 So unfortunately that's where we are at.
13:39:07 We don't have a good basis in the record to argue a
13:39:09 scrivener's error.
13:39:10 It may have been the intent.
13:39:11 But unfortunately we don't have any contradictory text
13:39:14 to suggest.
13:39:15 I looked at the history.
13:39:17 In all candor, 166 in our charter identifying the code
13:39:22 basis for a scrivener's error.
13:39:23 But we have done it historically.
13:39:25 But in the instances that we have done it, it's been
13:39:28 an instance, for example, where the word "private" was
13:39:31 approved and appears in several points of the text and
13:39:34 appears "public" elsewhere so clearly that was a
13:39:37 scrivener's error.
13:39:37 In other instance we found there was a page omitted
13:39:40 from an exhibit.
13:39:41 In this instance I don't think we can stretch
13:39:44 scrivener's error to this.

13:39:45 By virtue of the fact that it's coming to you within
13:39:48 another three weeks or so we can address the issue
13:39:50 then.
13:39:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just wanted to point out that we
13:39:53 have a special discussion meeting on chapter 27.
13:39:57 And I would be really happy to add that to the things
13:39:59 that we are discussing, which is Wednesday at noon,
13:40:03 August 3rd, which is then prayer to the Thursday
13:40:07 meeting.
13:40:08 >>DAVID SMITH: It makes sense.
13:40:10 I think you have a lot of residents of the city that
13:40:15 want to be heard on that issue and they have different
13:40:17 views and not felt like they have been adequately
13:40:20 heard so give you an opportunity to of a full hearing
13:40:22 of those considerations and decide what's appropriate.
13:40:26 Thank you very much.
13:40:26 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Wednesday, August 3rd?
13:40:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: 2nd.
13:40:30 I read it wrong.
13:40:32 August 2nd at noon in the Mascotte room to discuss
13:40:35 the provisions of chapter 27, extracted by councilman
13:40:38 Harrison, and Saul-Sena.

13:40:41 I would like to ask that also includes --
13:40:45 >> Can I ask why noon?
13:40:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: John Dingfelder specifically said
13:40:56 that and nobody else said another time.
13:40:58 >> I didn't know it was going to be at noon.
13:41:00 >> That's bad for you?
13:41:02 >> It's okay, we can't all be there.
13:41:04 >>GWEN MILLER: We go back to item number 52.
13:41:13 >>HEATHER LAMBOY: With reference to item 52, I had a
13:41:16 discussion with petitioner, and he's willing to make
13:41:18 the changes that need to be made.
13:41:20 I think there was a miscommunication between the
13:41:22 petitioner and his client.
13:41:24 And so, therefore, by tomorrow.
13:41:30 I guess we would like to request two weeks from now.
13:41:33 >>MARY ALVAREZ: So moved.
13:41:34 >> Second.
13:41:34 (Motion carried).
13:41:35 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Continue two weeks.
13:41:41 >> 10 a.m.
13:41:42 >>MARY ALVAREZ: August 3rd?
13:41:45 August 3rd.

13:41:47 >>KEVIN WHITE: Move to open 56.
13:41:49 >> Second.
13:41:50 (Motion carried)
13:42:06 >>> Land development.
13:42:09 WZ 06-87.
13:42:11 Petitioner requests 4(COP-R).
13:42:14 At 1600 east 8th Avenue, the petitioner is
13:42:19 requesting 4(COP-R) on vacant property to the
13:42:24 expanding the existing restaurant.
13:42:26 1600 east 8th Avenue, suite 8123, and they are
13:42:35 looking for the suite 1-123.
13:42:44 They are looking for an extension on it.
13:42:56 You can see there is also a residential property
13:43:03 within 1 that you feet.
13:43:04 And also institutional property within 1,000 feet.
13:43:11 That is the location in Ybor City.
13:43:14 You can waive the distance requirement.
13:43:18 There are also some conditions.
13:43:21 Because of the location.
13:43:23 There are the conditions about the security which the
13:43:30 petitioner should follow.
13:43:34 Basically that's all.

13:43:36 Land development, we don't have any objection.
13:43:47 >>> Don Miller, City of Tampa police department.
13:43:49 I have been sworn.
13:43:50 We have no objection for this particular wet zoning.
13:43:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
13:43:58 >>> Irene Pierpont, this extension allows the Tampa
13:44:07 Bay brewing to move into the plaza and create the
13:44:11 space they have been so desperately trying to find for
13:44:14 that portion of Ybor.
13:44:15 There are existing merchants in Ybor City which allows
13:44:18 them to keep their business there and expand it.
13:44:20 So we hope council approves the resolution.
13:44:23 Thank you.
13:44:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
13:44:25 wants to speak on item number 56?
13:44:26 >> Move to close.
13:44:27 >> Second.
13:44:27 (Motion carried).
13:44:29 >>ROSE FERLITA: Move an ordinance making lawful the
13:44:35 sale of beverages containing alcohol regardless of
13:44:37 alcoholic content, beer, wine and liquor, 4(COP-R),
13:44:40 for consumption on premises only in connection with a

13:44:43 restaurant business establishment on that certain lot,
13:44:46 plot or tract of land located at 1600 east 8th
13:44:48 Avenue, unit A-131, Tampa, Florida, more particularly
13:44:52 described in section 2 hereof waiving certain
13:44:54 restrictions as to distance based upon certain
13:44:56 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
13:44:59 conflict, providing an effective date.
13:45:00 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
13:45:01 [Motion Carried Unanimously]
13:45:04 We need to open 57.
13:45:06 >> So moved.
13:45:06 >> Second.
13:45:06 (Motion carried).
13:45:16 >>> Land development.
13:45:18 Next petition WZ 06-90.
13:45:25 4910 North Florida Avenue, for 2(COP-R).
13:45:28 The petitioner is requesting to sell beer and wine for
13:45:32 consumption on the premises only in conjunction with
13:45:38 the restaurant.
13:45:38 There is a property within 1,000 feet.
13:45:44 There is also one residential property which is very
13:45:48 close.

13:45:48 And then institutional property within 1,000 feet
13:45:54 distance.
13:46:01 Council can waive the distance requirement.
13:46:09 >>> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police
13:46:11 department.
13:46:12 On this particular wet zoning we have no opposition.
13:46:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
13:46:26 >>> Todd Gable.
13:46:27 This is my wife Natalie Mandeville.
13:46:31 We have been sworn in.
13:46:34 We are anticipating opening Cathy's pizza on Seminole
13:46:37 Heights and hoping to be able to serve beer and wine.
13:46:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
13:46:42 wants to speak on item 57?
13:46:44 >> Move to close.
13:46:45 >> Second.
13:46:51 >>> I'm moving as fast as I can.
13:46:53 Jerry Elsworth, president of south Seminole Heights
13:46:56 civic association.
13:46:57 I have been sworn.
13:46:58 This is exactly what we're looking for in the Seminole
13:47:01 Heights community.

13:47:02 And I think it certainly falls within the business
13:47:05 strategic plan that the neighborhood has been working
13:47:07 on.
13:47:09 I don't know if you have had a chance to see this
13:47:11 building but the petitioners have taken I think it was
13:47:14 a former martial arts building but a vacant building
13:47:18 and converted it to restaurant space, and done a
13:47:22 fantastic job.
13:47:23 There's also right next to it, there is outdoor dining
13:47:26 area, which hopefully when the dog ordinance passes
13:47:32 you should go for pizza.
13:47:35 So this is a block which is becoming what we all hoped
13:47:40 would happen in Seminole Heights.
13:47:41 And the civic association is totally behind this.
13:47:44 Thank you.
13:47:45 >>ROSE FERLITA: You are absolutely right.
13:47:47 And I'm not the most observant person.
13:47:50 But I looked around and all those buildings right
13:47:52 there are coming up so wonderfully.
13:47:56 Not strong enough to oppose your petition but you
13:47:58 really should have looked at Nebraska Avenue. Anyway,
13:48:00 good luck to you.

13:48:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Move to close.
13:48:08 >> Second.
13:48:08 (Motion carried).
13:48:08 >>KEVIN WHITE: Move an ordinance making lawful the
13:48:17 sale of beverages containing alcohol of more than 1%
13:48:19 by weight and not more than 14% by weight beer and
13:48:23 wine 2(COP-R) for consumption on premises only in
13:48:26 connection with a restaurant business establishment on
13:48:28 that certain lot, plot or tract of land located at
13:48:30 4910 North Florida Avenue Tampa, Florida more
13:48:33 particularly described in section 2 hereof waiving
13:48:35 certain restrictions as to distance based upon certain
13:48:38 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
13:48:40 conflict, providing an effective date.
13:48:41 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
13:48:43 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
13:48:44 Opposed, Nay.
13:48:46 (Motion Carried).
13:48:46 >> Move to open 58.
13:48:48 (Motion carried)
13:49:02 >>> Land development.
13:49:04 The next petition is WZ 06-96.

13:49:09 4(COP-R).
13:49:09 The location is 4009 west MLK, Jr., Boulevard.
13:49:15 The petitioner is requesting 4(COP-R) to the
13:49:22 restaurant.
13:49:24 There is one within 1,000 feet distance.
13:49:31 There are three institutional properties in 1,000
13:49:37 distance.
13:49:38 And on this petition the land development for existing
13:49:46 other use which reduced the footprint of the other use
13:49:50 to allow this wet zoning.
13:49:54 The number is WZ 06-35.
13:49:58 Land development has no objection.
13:50:09 >>> Don Miller, City of Tampa police department.
13:50:11 I have been sworn.
13:50:11 The police department on this particular wet zone is
13:50:17 in opposition based on the significant criminal
13:50:19 history at that location and I urge to you take a look
13:50:22 at my report.
13:50:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
13:50:36 James Diaz, 2522 West Kennedy Boulevard and I have
13:50:40 previously been sworn.
13:50:43 If I can for a second, looking at this, this whole

13:50:48 entire parcel at this point in time enjoys the S-1
13:50:52 adult special use.
13:50:55 We understand that it has been impossible to wet zone
13:50:59 where there is an adult use.
13:51:07 So with respect to this parcel, we would relinquish
13:51:10 the adult use on that parcel.
13:51:16 We have filed an application with Cathy Coyle
13:51:20 simultaneous with this wet zoning petition where the
13:51:24 main portion of the property would have a new S-1
13:51:28 special use.
13:51:33 Now, what do we have there?
13:51:35 We have a building that has a footprint of about
13:51:38 10,000 square feet.
13:51:42 What are we telling you?
13:51:43 We are telling you that we are willing to give up the
13:51:46 adult use on the portion that is operated at what
13:51:49 everybody wants to refer to as the pink pony crazy
13:51:52 horse.
13:51:53 The other portion of the building is a book store.
13:51:56 We are telling you, give up the existing S-1 special
13:52:00 use for in return for a new S-1 special use on the
13:52:06 property allowing the book store to remain, and then

13:52:10 as a 4(COP-R).
13:52:14 I'm surely going to have some people in opposition and
13:52:17 I'll save my comments as to theirs after they have
13:52:20 spoken.
13:52:20 But I would like to address the police report that got
13:52:23 filed.
13:52:25 The police report goes on to say that there have been
13:52:29 nine cases of sex-related crimes and prostitution
13:52:32 reported at this location, there have been six robbery
13:52:36 calls, and eleven burglary auto calls.
13:52:40 And that's talking about a 67-month period.
13:52:45 Of that 67-month period, my client has owned it the
13:52:48 last 15 months.
13:52:52 Now, of the nine prostitution cases, the last one
13:52:56 occurred in 2003.
13:52:58 Not a one has occurred while my client has owned this
13:53:01 property.
13:53:02 The robberies, the six that occurred, one of those
13:53:07 occurred while my client owned the property.
13:53:11 Somebody out in the parking lot.
13:53:13 Of the eleven auto burglaries that they represent in
13:53:16 this report, the last one occurred November of 2004.

13:53:19 Not a one of them has occurred while my client has
13:53:22 owned this property.
13:53:23 So they want to talk about the substantial criminal
13:53:26 history.
13:53:27 That all ended when you all SU-II it down back in
13:53:30 2003.
13:53:33 If you turn the page, they want to tell you that
13:53:35 there's 136 calls for police.
13:53:40 I went to the police department.
13:53:41 And I got a printout on this location.
13:53:46 And the either the police department gives me bad
13:53:51 numbers or there's not 139.
13:53:52 I had 112.
13:53:54 And of that 112, in the year 2003, there were three
13:54:01 arrests made.
13:54:03 In the year 2002, there were 13 arrests made.
13:54:08 In the year 2003 there were ten.
13:54:11 In the year 2004 there were zero. In the year 2005
13:54:15 there were zero.
13:54:16 In the year 2006 there are zero.
13:54:21 We can't control what happened there before we owned
13:54:24 this property.

13:54:25 But this property has been clean under our
13:54:27 stewardship.
13:54:32 I think you are going to hear some opposition.
13:54:35 And I think the thrust of it because I have seen some
13:54:37 of it is writing is going to be directed to the fact
13:54:39 that they think that they are going to continue to be
13:54:41 an adult use with a wet zoning.
13:54:44 It's not at all what's happening here.
13:54:46 They are going to come in and going to relinquish the
13:54:49 wet zoning.
13:54:50 So I'll kind of save my comments for theirs until
13:54:53 after they've spoken.
13:55:04 >> Mr. Diaz, something of clarity to something you
13:55:06 said.
13:55:06 You said you're willing to relinquish half of this,
13:55:11 and you said the other portion.
13:55:12 You said we can't kick them out.
13:55:15 >>> There's a tenant.
13:55:16 This property is partially occupied by a tenant.
13:55:26 This is MLK.
13:55:30 The portion we would be relinquish the S-1 uses runs
13:55:34 perpendicular to MLK.

13:55:36 The portion that runs parallel to MLK is leased out to
13:55:40 the tenant.
13:55:43 You saying you can't kick them out.
13:55:46 There's a lease.
13:55:47 >> there was a lease in place when you ran the
13:55:49 property.
13:55:49 >> When the lease is up, can you kick them out then?
13:55:53 >> I imagine we could.
13:55:55 >> If you want.
13:55:57 >>> More than likely we wouldn't.
13:55:58 >> You said relinquish this adult which means you have
13:56:01 no more activity in there.
13:56:03 >>> No --
13:56:07 >> Well, you said relinquish.
13:56:09 >>> I thought that my statement was you can't have two
13:56:12 adult uses in one location, you can't have wet zoning
13:56:15 on an adult use.
13:56:16 So right now, there is an existing adult use on the
13:56:20 whole parcel.
13:56:24 Communications I have had with Cathy Coyle in the
13:56:26 application that I have submitted, and my
13:56:28 understanding of the application, which is approvable,

13:56:32 is that all but the strip that is perpendicular to MLK
13:56:39 would get a new S-1 adult special use.
13:56:44 The perpendicular portion would no longer have an S-1
13:56:49 adult special use.
13:56:50 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Mr. Diaz, if you're still going to
13:56:58 have an adult book store on that -- I guess it's the
13:57:04 eastern part of the parcel, and what type of
13:57:09 restaurant are you planning to put in there?
13:57:12 And would that have any effect -- would the adult book
13:57:17 store have any effect on the type of business or
13:57:19 restaurant that you're going to have on the other side
13:57:21 of the parcel?
13:57:23 >>> What do you mean by an effect?
13:57:25 >> Well, you have an adult book store.
13:57:27 And you are going to have a restaurant.
13:57:30 What kind of a restaurant are you planning to have?
13:57:32 >>> I don't know that that has been formalized yet,
13:57:35 Ms. Alvarez.
13:57:35 My understanding is at the corner of MLK and Dale
13:57:38 Mabry, that I don't think that that car dealership is
13:57:42 going to remain there much longer.
13:57:43 We understand there's a development coming into that

13:57:45 area.
13:57:45 And we are trying to beat the punch and get ready for
13:57:48 what we understand will be happening when that
13:57:51 dealership is out.
13:57:52 >> But be that as it may, Mr. Diaz, we are talking
13:57:54 about this parcel right now.
13:57:56 And my concern is, first of all, that it's close to
13:58:02 the Baptist church for one thing, and then we also
13:58:05 have the juvenile sent area cross the street.
13:58:08 >>> That's correct.
13:58:10 >> Well, Legends Field is also there, too.
13:58:13 But I think my main concern is right now that you have
13:58:16 an adult book store on that parcel, which is going to
13:58:19 stay because it's a lease, and then you are going to
13:58:21 have some kind of a restaurant on the other side.
13:58:24 And I'm questioning what kind of a restaurant would
13:58:27 you have there that would want to be next to an adult
13:58:33 book store?
13:58:34 I mean, it's a simple question, it seems to me.
13:58:37 >>> It may seem like a simple question to you.
13:58:39 I don't know that has been finalized and I can tell
13:58:42 you that they are going to put this kind of restaurant

13:58:44 or that kind of restaurant at this time.
13:58:46 >> Could it be a gentleman's club that you're planning
13:58:48 to put there?
13:58:49 >>> Not to my understanding, no.
13:58:53 >> All right.
13:58:56 It's not going to be a Cracker Barrel or anything like
13:58:59 that.
13:59:01 [ Laughter ]
13:59:02 No, okay.
13:59:03 But that was a no, right?
13:59:05 >>> Not a Cracker Barrel.
13:59:07 I don't think we are large enough to be a Cracker
13:59:08 Barrel.
13:59:09 We are only about 4500 square feet.
13:59:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Let's go to the audience.
13:59:14 Does anyone in the public want to speak on item number
13:59:16 8?
13:59:21 >>> I want to make a couple comments.
13:59:22 The first comment was that the petitioner has advised
13:59:25 council that they would be willing to rescind a
13:59:28 portion of their adult use S-1 permit.
13:59:30 I just wanted to make council aware of the fact that

13:59:32 that's not at the present time a condition that it be
13:59:36 contained in the wet zoning ordinance that we
13:59:39 prepared.
13:59:39 In fact, if that is council's desire, any wet zoning,
13:59:46 I would ask that you ask legal to provide the
13:59:49 ordinance to include that as a condition.
13:59:50 And I just wanted to also remind City Council how it
13:59:56 works when somebody is requesting a waiver in a wet
13:59:58 zoning petition.
13:59:59 What the petitioner's burden is they have to
14:00:01 demonstrate that they meet the qualifications that are
14:00:03 contained in the regulation to be entitled for waiver.
14:00:06 In this case, what they have indicated is that they
14:00:09 are a restaurant use, and that the sale of alcoholic
14:00:11 beverages will be incidental.
14:00:14 At that point, if City Council chooses to deny this
14:00:18 wet zoning, City Council has to by competent and
14:00:22 substantial evidence, find that this wet zoning is
14:00:25 adverse to the public interest and not compatible with
14:00:27 the surrounding neighborhood.
14:00:29 You need to make a finding of fact of that nature if
14:00:32 you do in fact make a motion.

14:00:35 Thank you.
14:00:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Does anyone else in the public want to
14:00:37 speak?
14:00:40 >>> Good afternoon.
14:00:40 My name is Dr. William Clark.
14:00:42 I'm the dean of health, wellness and sports
14:00:44 technology, the Hillsborough community college.
14:00:47 I'm here speaking on behalf of Dr. Robert Chunn who is
14:00:51 the president of the Dale Mabry campus.
14:00:54 I have a letter that I'd like to -- I have a copy.
14:01:03 And I would like to read this into the record, please.
14:01:07 Dear chairperson Miller, Hillsborough community
14:01:11 college HCC Dale Mabry campus has resided in the Drew
14:01:14 Park committee for over 35 years.
14:01:17 Since 2001, when the City of Tampa department of urban
14:01:23 development and Hillsborough county-city Planning
14:01:26 Commission began working to advance the interests of
14:01:28 the Drew Park community, Hillsborough County community
14:01:32 college has been an active and committed participant.
14:01:36 HCC shares the concerns of other Drew Park residents
14:01:39 and business owners over incompatible land uses in
14:01:43 Drew Park.

14:01:45 An evidence of this confidence in the development.
14:01:49 Drew Park community, HCC will begin construction of an
14:01:53 $18 million, 420-bed student housing complex at the
14:01:58 corner of Lois Avenue and Tampa Bay Boulevard later
14:02:02 this year.
14:02:04 For the first time in its existence, HCC will have
14:02:07 resident student population of 4020 students living
14:02:11 and studying in Drew Park.
14:02:14 A 4(COP-R) designation for the crazy horse gentleman's
14:02:19 club located a quarter mile from HCC's new housing
14:02:23 student housing complex, as well as from the HCC
14:02:28 adjacent head start and campus child center -- child
14:02:33 care center, does nothing to support the positive
14:02:35 redevelopment of the Drew Park community, and
14:02:39 furthermore compromises HCC's effort to entice its
14:02:43 students to live, study, and place their children in
14:02:47 Drew Park.
14:02:48 HCC opposes the 4(COP-R) designation for the crazy
14:02:52 horse gentleman's club and urges the members of the
14:02:57 Tampa City Council to deny the request.
14:02:59 Thank you for your attention.
14:03:02 It's signed: Dr. Robert Chunn, president of the Dale

14:03:05 Mabry campus.
14:03:09 And as Dean of health and wellness and sports
14:03:11 technology, I run a dental clinic which basically sees
14:03:16 pediatric patients, Medicaid and Medicare patients,
14:03:21 and children of low income and low access patients at
14:03:26 the back of our campus, and it would also be very
14:03:29 close to that as well.
14:03:30 So I also urge you to reconsider this.
14:03:34 Thank you very much.
14:03:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
14:03:36 Would anyone else like to speak?
14:03:37 >>RON ROTELLA: Advisory committee.
14:03:53 I'm not here as one person but a spokesperson for the
14:03:56 Drew Park advisory council.
14:03:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Have you been sworn, Mr. Rotella?
14:04:00 >>RON ROTELLA: No, I have not.
14:04:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Raise your right hand.
14:04:02 (Oath administered by Clerk).
14:04:09 >>RON ROTELLA: Yes.
14:04:10 As you know, the city contracted with the -- were
14:04:15 asked to come up with a redevelopment strategy for
14:04:17 Drew Park.

14:04:19 I believe in your file you do have a letter from the
14:04:21 planning consultants URS that's working on the
14:04:24 development plan that voices their objection to the
14:04:26 wet zoning and the proximity to the related use and
14:04:31 the Drew Park advisory committee would also like to
14:04:37 register its objection, Drew Park, other related uses
14:04:44 throughout Drew Park, legal and illegal.
14:04:47 And I do understand that they are giving up a portion
14:04:50 of the building as an adult related use but there will
14:04:53 be a portion that remains as an adult related use, and
14:04:58 ask for 4(COP-R) designation for a restaurant that
14:05:01 nobody can contemplate what it can be.
14:05:05 And we think that mixing alcohol and related uses at
14:05:13 that site is not an appropriate use and does not fit
14:05:16 into the redevelopment strategy that we hope that
14:05:18 occurs in Drew Park.
14:05:20 Thank you.
14:05:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
14:05:21 Would anyone else like to speak?
14:05:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We don't have the redevelopment
14:05:34 plan with us.
14:05:37 I know we have worked on it.

14:05:40 We have all worked on it together pretty diligently.
14:05:43 But can you refresh our memory?
14:05:49 I think are you chair of that group?
14:05:52 >>RON ROTELLA: Yes.
14:05:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Either you or Jeanette, refresh our
14:05:56 memory about what you have been envisioning of the CRA
14:06:02 of that subdistrict, obviously not property by
14:06:04 property but just generically.
14:06:06 What have we been talking about?
14:06:08 Have we gotten that far in our deliberations?
14:06:12 >>RON ROTELLA: We had a couple of public hearings on
14:06:15 the draft of the plan.
14:06:17 It will be finalized in a couple of weeks.
14:06:20 There will be a public hearing on the final draft of
14:06:22 the plan in August.
14:06:25 Of course, Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard is a major
14:06:30 gateway into Drew Park.
14:06:32 And we see that as a Boulevard that's improved.
14:06:37 And as far as the plan, it recognizes the significance
14:06:41 of the new road that the airport will construct a
14:06:44 4-lane divided highway from Tampa Bay Boulevard to
14:06:49 Hillsborough that will become a major new

14:06:51 transportation thoroughfare through the district, and
14:06:55 Martin Luther King will intersect with that new major
14:06:59 transportation corridor, and then what's being
14:07:01 recommended is a mixture of retail, residential, and
14:07:07 again Martin Luther King is a major gateway to that.
14:07:11 >> I do recall that discussion now that you refresh my
14:07:14 memory about a gateway.
14:07:16 There are a couple of gateways we have identified in
14:07:19 the district and that's one of them.
14:07:21 >>> That's correct.
14:07:21 >> The other question I had for either of you,
14:07:23 4(COP)s, do we have -- and maybe this is for the
14:07:29 zoning folks -- do we have other 4(COP)s nearby in
14:07:34 Drew Park, 4(COP)s or 4(COP) Rs.
14:07:47 >>> We have none in the Drew Park area.
14:07:50 We have an APS.
14:07:57 It's not considered Drew Park area.
14:07:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else like to speak?
14:08:01 Mr. White.
14:08:04 >>KEVIN WHITE: Didn't know if petitioner had closing.
14:08:07 Actually, I have a question for the petitioner.
14:08:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner, come up, please.

14:08:13 >>KEVIN WHITE: A statement, then a question for the
14:08:16 petitioner.
14:08:16 One of the things that I'm looking at, surrounding
14:08:19 institutional uses.
14:08:26 I guess the question is, if we look at both sides and
14:08:30 see what the better of two evils, what's there right
14:08:35 now if we do not approve this.
14:08:37 And one of the things that Ms. Alvarez has been
14:08:39 strongly opposed to is adult uses since I have been
14:08:45 here on this council.
14:08:46 And petitioner, in just a moment, please correct me if
14:08:51 I am wrong because I don't want to put words in your
14:08:53 mouth.
14:08:54 You are giving up half of this use to be used on it,
14:08:57 but you're saying you can't or you won't, because of
14:09:01 the lease, if it weren't for the lease would this
14:09:08 whole thing be a 4(COP-R)?
14:09:11 >>> I don't know the answer to the question.
14:09:13 We never discuss it to be very candid.
14:09:16 We have a lease so why have that conversation?
14:09:18 We didn't have that luxury available to us.
14:09:22 So we didn't talk about it.

14:09:24 Because you couldn't do it even if we had wanted to
14:09:26 dot, we just can't do it.
14:09:28 >>KEVIN WHITE: Well, the only quandary that I really
14:09:33 have, and I know way want to say right now, not
14:09:35 necessarily for this at all, the only thing that even
14:09:39 has me thinking is that you're willing to give up half
14:09:43 of the adult use on this, and if there was any glimmer
14:09:49 hope that the other half would probably go away, and
14:09:53 this could be a restaurant on this main gateway and
14:09:57 corridor.
14:09:58 I could see it.
14:09:59 But by the same token I'm trying to look at the other
14:10:02 side and say, well, if you didn't get it, then crazy
14:10:06 horse is still going to be there, and it's still an
14:10:08 adult use with whatever activity that go on or going
14:10:15 on, but like you said in your report, those were
14:10:19 before the previous owner and I know that the negative
14:10:22 connotation that these establishments get.
14:10:26 I'm just trying to be as fair and objective in a
14:10:29 decision here as I can.
14:10:37 >>> Mr. White, if I can, and I will read part of this
14:10:40 URS let theory Mr. Rotella referred to.

14:10:42 In the second paragraph, it starts out with: The big
14:10:47 crazy horse is one of the last ten business regulated
14:10:50 businesses within the boundaries of the Drew Park CRA.
14:10:54 In addition five nonregulated adult businesses also
14:10:57 exist within this small area of the city.
14:10:59 Given the clustering effect that is the result of
14:11:02 locating 15 adult businesses within an area that is
14:11:05 roughly 1.3 square miles, the area in our opinion is
14:11:09 saturated with adult use.
14:11:11 We're telling you that we're willing to cut down
14:11:16 basically half of our adult use.
14:11:19 And you can maybe check with city staff on this.
14:11:24 I don't think once we give it up we can get it back.
14:11:30 So, I mean, if you go on and read that same letter,
14:11:34 that letter talks about the overwhelming response we
14:11:36 have heard from residents and business owners.
14:11:39 To my knowledge there's no residentially zoned
14:11:41 property within Drew Park.
14:11:43 That whole area is just about all IG.
14:11:46 Where is the residentially zoned property?
14:11:48 I'm not aware of any.
14:11:49 I believe you can check with the city.

14:11:53 Certainly in a where near us.
14:11:54 There's no way.
14:12:01 We have heard from residents in the community there's
14:12:03 something that needs to be done about adult use.
14:12:05 We are happy to bring to your attention that bringing
14:12:07 wet zoning to one of the large -- we may no longer ab
14:12:13 adult use.
14:12:14 The code doesn't allow it.
14:12:22 In all candor, we're stuck in a situation.
14:12:27 We are telling you we are willing to give up some of
14:12:29 our adult use if you will give us 4(COP-R).
14:12:36 What we are asking is if you give us one we'll give it
14:12:39 up.
14:12:39 The alternative is if you turn it down we are back to
14:12:42 status quo.
14:12:43 So which one is really better off for the community?
14:12:45 And I guess that's what you all have to decide.
14:12:48 It's our belief that you're better off by taking half
14:12:50 of our adult use and giving us a 4(COP-R).
14:12:53 And that's why we are here before you.
14:12:56 We didn't just spring out of the air.
14:12:58 And that's the ultimate decision.

14:13:00 What do you feel is best for that area?
14:13:03 Do you want to leave it as it is, a full adult use?
14:13:06 Or do you want to take back half of it and replace it
14:13:10 with a 4(COP-R)?
14:13:12 >>GWEN MILLER: The half that's going to be there, the
14:13:15 same activities will still be going on?
14:13:17 >>> No, it can't be, it can't be.
14:13:19 >> It's going to be an adult use.
14:13:21 >>> If we sell juice then we don't need an R zoning.
14:13:24 If we are going do sell juice then we don't need an
14:13:26 alcoholic beverage.
14:13:28 >> But what other parts you are going to keep in adult
14:13:31 use?
14:13:32 >>> It will be the book store that's there.
14:13:34 The book store that's been there.
14:13:38 It's the book store.
14:13:41 >> For adult use.
14:13:43 >>> That's what's been there.
14:13:44 I think you can check with officer Miller.
14:13:46 He can respond to what's been going on there.
14:13:47 I mean, we did this once before on Adamo drive.
14:13:53 The only difference was that on Adamo drive, we did a

14:13:57 4(COP-X).
14:13:59 And to my knowledge, you all haven't any problems with
14:14:02 that location since that was done.
14:14:03 And I think I did that location over two years ago, I
14:14:07 believe.
14:14:07 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Now Mr. Diaz, now that we know it's
14:14:16 crazy horse gentlemen's club, and we know what a
14:14:19 gentlemen's club is.
14:14:22 It's part adult use.
14:14:26 Because you can't see a going in there with an adult
14:14:32 book store next to you.
14:14:33 Common sense tells you something else is going to go
14:14:36 in there that's part adult use.
14:14:38 Gentleman's club is an adult use.
14:14:41 It's an incompatible us use for this area as far as
14:14:45 I'm concerned.
14:14:46 We have got a Baptist church, a juvenile center and
14:14:49 now HCC has come back and said we are going to have
14:14:52 420 students on the very next corner.
14:14:56 And you also said you don't know the residential
14:14:58 component in there?
14:15:01 Take a look between MLK and Tampa Bay Boulevard.

14:15:05 There is a residential component in there.
14:15:07 They are very sick and tired of having adult uses, and
14:15:12 even the smell of an adult use in there.
14:15:17 So if we can get rid of one, fine.
14:15:20 You're saying we are going to get rid of one but it
14:15:22 seems to me we are getting another one with a wet
14:15:24 zoning.
14:15:35 Rose Ross are you through?
14:15:37 I wanted officer Miller to come up and get some input
14:15:41 from him.
14:15:45 >>> Officer Miller, Tampa police.
14:15:47 The movement going on, based on my investigation the
14:15:51 last five months on these quote-unquote adult
14:15:55 use/restaurants, gentleman's clubs, because that's
14:15:58 what they are going to.
14:16:00 They are getting away from the adult use to the
14:16:01 gentleman's clubs.
14:16:02 And then are we trading off nudity, trading off
14:16:09 partial nudity, scantily clad dressed women?
14:16:13 I think we are kind of on the mark here, and it's
14:16:15 still an adult use.
14:16:17 It's not going to be no Cracker Barrel.

14:16:19 It's definitely not going to be anyplace where I want
14:16:22 one of my daughters working.
14:16:23 I just want to bring that to your attention that, yes,
14:16:26 it's going to be scantily clad dressed women.
14:16:29 And I don't believe that any restaurant is going to be
14:16:36 put there.
14:16:38 >>ROSE FERLITA: I just want to say something.
14:16:41 >>> I would suggest before you close the public
14:16:42 hearing you may want to hear -- let me remind you what
14:16:47 you are voting on.
14:16:47 >>ROSE FERLITA: I think I can make this comment first.
14:16:51 I know we talked about different things that we are in
14:16:53 favor of or not in favor of.
14:16:55 And as I'm looking at this, I want to remind my
14:16:58 colleagues that we are looking at this simply as a
14:17:00 4(COP) application.
14:17:02 It has nothing to do with the square footage amount of
14:17:06 an adult use that's next to the.
14:17:09 Whether there's more complicated activity is there,
14:17:11 because there might be less square footage that's
14:17:13 allocated to an adult use, or if it's the whole 10,000
14:17:17 square feet or whatever it is, I don't remember.

14:17:19 But the point is than we look at this 4(COP-R)
14:17:24 application, and look at competent, substantial
14:17:27 evidence show that shows us the reasons that you are
14:17:30 not in favor of it that you should express.
14:17:32 And I think it's an incompatibility issue just like
14:17:37 Ms. Alvarez said.
14:17:38 The fact that you have institutional uses, the Baptist
14:17:40 church 615 feet away.
14:17:42 Hillsborough County juvenile center, 367 feet away.
14:17:45 And those are reasons that I haven't supported a lot
14:17:49 of 4(COP)s or alcohol wet zoning, simply because of
14:17:53 the proximity to institutional uses and never in any
14:17:56 case have those petitions and those are not germane to
14:18:00 what we are talking about today.
14:18:01 But it's simply whether or not the 4(COP-R)
14:18:04 application is being requested is compatible with what
14:18:06 we have there.
14:18:07 Forget about the adult use, whether you like them or
14:18:09 whether we don't.
14:18:10 Nothing to do with what we should be focusing on.
14:18:13 And as well, I think there were some concerns that Ms.
14:18:15 Alvarez that again she wondered what was going to go

14:18:18 there, what type of a restaurant.
14:18:19 Again, unrelated to the adult using.
14:18:22 And that was the issue again not related to this one
14:18:25 specifically but I use the same criteria.
14:18:28 I had some concerns earlier.
14:18:29 Somebody was up here applying for continued wet zoning
14:18:32 of a spot, and we always have a concern whether we are
14:18:35 approving a wet zoning and we don't know what type of
14:18:38 establishment we are approving the wet zone for.
14:18:41 Because there are no specifics.
14:18:43 So there are a lot of concerns from my point but they
14:18:46 are strength strictly unrelated to the special use.
14:18:49 Simply incompatible.
14:18:50 Too close to institutional uses.
14:18:52 And I don't think that this is developing that area in
14:18:57 the direction that we have trade so hard to put it in.
14:19:00 So that all together yields no support for me.
14:19:06 I wanted to put that on the record.
14:19:08 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Officer, Mr. Diaz, another example,
14:19:13 diamonds out on Adamo.
14:19:17 Have you had indication to look at what's gone on
14:19:19 there since the last couple years since that

14:19:22 converted?
14:19:23 >>> Diamonds has cleaned up its act.
14:19:24 I also want to bring your attention, this is also one
14:19:29 of the businesses that was owned prior, a long with
14:19:31 the Pink Pony, that was involved in this racketeering
14:19:34 case where we went up and cleaned everything out.
14:19:36 And I want to be able to focus that, yes, it cleaned
14:19:42 up.
14:19:42 Of course, when you clean up any club.
14:19:46 >>SHAWN HARRISON: It still has a Diamonds, isn't it?
14:19:54 >>> Yes, sir, yes, sir.
14:19:54 >> Is it the bikini bars we are hearing about?
14:19:58 Or just a restaurant that would you take your family
14:20:00 to after church on Sunday?
14:20:02 [ Laughter ]
14:20:14 >>> Diamonds was cleaned up.
14:20:15 I haven't been on that particular site.
14:20:19 I believe it is full liquor now.
14:20:21 >> But it certainly does not have an adult use right
14:20:26 next -- literally, you know, sharing a common wall
14:20:29 with it.
14:20:30 >>> Right, right, a whole different.

14:20:33 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Saul-Sena?
14:20:37 Mr. Dingfelder?
14:20:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Officer, how many years have you
14:20:42 been in law enforcement?
14:20:44 >>> In law enforcement 20 years, sir.
14:20:47 >> Do you have an opinion -- Ms. Ferlita was right on
14:20:53 in that regard, we don't want to get a strike.
14:20:57 Let's talk about hard liquor, okay?
14:20:59 We are trying to bring the Drew Park neighborhood back
14:21:03 up both in a commercial sense and a residential sense
14:21:06 and an academic sense and all the different things
14:21:09 that Drew Park has a potential for.
14:21:11 We are trying to bring it back up.
14:21:13 Do you have any experience or an opinion as to any
14:21:21 negative effect that hard liquor sales would have, any
14:21:26 effect it would have on that neighborhood one way or
14:21:28 the other?
14:21:29 >>> I can tell you 20 years in law enforcement, sir,
14:21:32 and believe it or not I used to live in Drew Park as a
14:21:35 young boy.
14:21:36 I've seen that particular area decline slowly but
14:21:40 surely because of some of the adult use in that area.

14:21:45 I've also been a DUI investigator for ten years in
14:21:48 this city.
14:21:49 I watched DUIs come and go.
14:21:51 I have seen people killed over the years.
14:21:54 Seen a lot of tragedy in my time as a DUI
14:21:57 investigator.
14:21:58 Does alcohol have an impact on the community?
14:21:59 You bet it does.
14:22:01 Does it have an impact on lives and saving lives?
14:22:03 You betcha it does.
14:22:06 Do you want those things in your backyard?
14:22:08 Me, absolutely not.
14:22:09 Based on my opinion -- and I really don't count here,
14:22:11 it's your opinion and your judgment what counts
14:22:13 here -- is that something that -- that's a question we
14:22:17 could all ask ourselves, is alcohol really a positive
14:22:20 thing for all of us?
14:22:23 But scantily clad --
14:22:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Not the adult use, just the
14:22:28 alcohol.
14:22:29 >>> Alcohol to me digresses growth and development, in
14:22:33 my opinion.

14:22:33 >>GWEN MILLER: Sir, do you have something to say?
14:22:39 >>> I just wanted to remind City Council that what you
14:22:41 need to act on today is the request before you and
14:22:44 that is for a 4(COP-R).
14:22:46 If City Council chooses at this point to deny it, City
14:22:48 Council has the burden to show by substantial,
14:22:52 competent evidence that in fact what's requested, the
14:22:55 4(COP-R), is going to have an adverse impact on the
14:22:58 surrounding areas and is incompatible with the
14:23:01 surrounding uses.
14:23:02 And I would also suggest that you or the applicant
14:23:05 have the last word since there has been some
14:23:08 additional testimony here.
14:23:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Diaz, do you want to say something
14:23:11 else?
14:23:19 >>> Diaz: Mr. Harrison, in response to your question,
14:23:21 they share a common wall.
14:23:22 You can check with the city.
14:23:24 We had to build it to code.
14:23:26 So there is a common wall that separates them.
14:23:28 And the confusion arises from they don't have an R,
14:23:32 they have an X.

14:23:33 They don't have an R, they have an X.
14:23:34 But they do share a common wall.
14:23:40 We don't know, believe this will be a benefit to Drew
14:23:48 Park, don't know what else we can tell you but we are
14:23:56 ready to relinquish a portion of it.
14:23:58 It seems to obviate their concerns.
14:24:00 Maybe they would rather have an adult use close to
14:24:03 them, and not an R zoning.
14:24:08 Already stuck this in an adult use.
14:24:10 You can't have adult use where there's alcoholic
14:24:13 beverages.
14:24:14 State law doesn't allow it.
14:24:15 City code doesn't allow it.
14:24:17 Everybody wants to keep saying we are going to be an
14:24:19 adult use.
14:24:23 City code doesn't allow it.
14:24:25 We are here for a 4(COP-R).
14:24:28 We respectfully request you approve it.
14:24:30 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Move to close.
14:24:36 >> Second.
14:24:36 (Motion carried).
14:24:37 >>GWEN MILLER: What's the pleasure of council?

14:24:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I am going to move to deny this
14:24:45 petition.
14:24:46 >> Second.
14:24:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think from Ms. Ferlita's
14:24:49 comments, we are directly on point.
14:24:52 My motion is not the least bit based upon the next
14:24:57 door adult use or any adult use issue.
14:24:59 My motion to deny is based upon the fact that I
14:25:02 believe we heard competent, substantial evidence and
14:25:05 testimony that this use would be adverse to the public
14:25:10 interest, that this use, this proposed use is
14:25:13 incompatible with the surrounding areas, and as Ms.
14:25:16 Alvarez pointed out, and furthermore, even though we
14:25:19 don't have a finalized plan on the CRA, and I want to
14:25:22 stress it's not finalized, but a month ago we made a
14:25:25 determination that this Drew Park area was a blighted
14:25:28 area and that we are working hard to bring it back up.
14:25:30 And that's why I asked some of those questions as
14:25:32 related to, do we have other COPs, either "R" or
14:25:39 straight COPs in the district and I think the
14:25:42 opinion was we do not, and as a result what type of
14:25:45 precedent are we establishing?

14:25:46 We are establishing the wrong press dented for an area
14:25:48 that we are trying to elevate.
14:25:50 An officer testified as to his professional opinion
14:25:52 from 20 years in law enforcement as to the effects of
14:25:55 hard liquor on a neighborhood.
14:25:56 This is adjacent to -- within 615 feet of a Baptist
14:26:01 church, within 950 feet of the motor vehicles, and
14:26:06 within 367 feet of the juvenile justice center.
14:26:09 I used to work at the juvenile justice center.
14:26:12 And I always thought it was rather unusual to be
14:26:14 driving there and seeing some of these negative uses.
14:26:17 But, anyway, with all of that said, I'll move to deny.
14:26:22 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Second.
14:26:22 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
14:26:25 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
14:26:26 Opposed, Nay.
14:26:28 [Motion Carried Unanimously]
14:26:28 Item number 59 cannot be heard.
14:26:39 >>THE CLERK: At this time --
14:26:49 (off microphone).
14:26:52 >> So moved.
14:26:53 >> Second.

14:26:53 (Motion carried).
14:26:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 60 need to open.
14:26:58 >> So moved.
14:26:59 >> Second.
14:26:59 (Motion carried).
14:27:01 >>> WZ 06-109.
14:27:04 400 north Ashley drive.
14:27:06 Petitioner is requesting 4(COP-R) on an existing
14:27:09 restaurant, within 1,000 feet distance, there are also
14:27:17 institutionalized within 1,000-foot distance.
14:27:23 Also because of the location, the other condition, the
14:27:33 distance requirement.
14:27:35 And land development has no objection on this
14:27:37 petition. Petitioner was referred to the Tampa Police
14:27:37 Department for their review.
14:27:50 >>> Officer Don Miller, Tampa Police Department.
14:27:52 I have been sworn.
14:27:52 We have in a opposition to this wet zoning.
14:27:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
14:28:01 >>> Ann Pollack, 305 south Boulevard.
14:28:04 This is on the northwest corner of Ashley and Kennedy.
14:28:10 We are going to be putting in a restaurant and I don't

14:28:15 think there should be any problem but if you have any
14:28:17 questions I'm here.
14:28:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
14:28:19 wants to speak on item number 60?
14:28:21 >> Move to close.
14:28:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My question is, is this where you
14:28:36 can sit outside and drink, also?
14:28:39 >>> Yes.
14:28:40 It's along the river side of the building.
14:28:48 >> Great!
14:28:48 I asked that because I think that would be really
14:28:50 lovely.
14:28:51 I think that's what I would like.
14:28:57 When people come up for petitions, and if you give us
14:29:00 a street address, it would be helpful in the future,
14:29:03 not now, but if you said, is this for a structure, or
14:29:06 this is a structure and an outside portion?
14:29:10 That's good information.
14:29:10 You don't have to do it now but in the future.
14:29:12 That would be good.
14:29:15 I think it's great to be able to sit outside, you
14:29:17 know.

14:29:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The question is, will there be a
14:29:21 doggy drinking area?
14:29:23 [ Laughter ]
14:29:24 >>GWEN MILLER: If the dog wants to go for a swim.
14:29:29 We need to close.
14:29:30 >> So moved.
14:29:31 >> Second.
14:29:31 (Motion carried).
14:29:31 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Move an ordinance making lawful the
14:29:44 sale of beverage containing alcohol regardless of
14:29:47 alcoholic content beer, wine and liquor 4(COP-R) for
14:29:50 consumption on premises only in connection with a
14:29:51 restaurant business establishment on that certain lot,
14:29:54 plot or tract of land located at 400 north Ashley
14:29:57 drive, Tampa, Florida, as more particularly described
14:30:00 in section 2 hereof, waiving certain restrictions as
14:30:03 to distance based upon certain findings, providing for
14:30:05 the repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
14:30:08 effective date.
14:30:09 >>GWEN MILLER: There's a motion and second.
14:30:10 (Motion carried)
14:30:14 We need to open the workshop.

14:30:15 >>ROSE FERLITA: I want to ask maybe Ms. Coyle
14:30:20 something.
14:30:21 Oh, she's not here.
14:30:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Cole or Coyle?
14:30:27 >>ROSE FERLITA: She's not here.
14:30:28 Just in response to what Mrs. Saul-Sena is looking
14:30:31 for, for clarification.
14:30:35 With liquor requests, don't we have a picture of the
14:30:38 footprint of what's being requested?
14:30:40 I'm sorry, you should be doing that.
14:30:41 I'm so sorry.
14:30:42 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
14:30:43 Yes, it should be attached as part of your backup, the
14:30:46 footprint of what is actually being wet zoned.
14:30:51 >>ROSE FERLITA: At the same time while we are studying
14:30:53 it you can see if it's just a building or the whole
14:30:55 footprint of the parcel.
14:30:59 789 now we need to open the workshop.
14:31:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So moved.
14:31:02 >> Second.
14:31:02 (Motion carried).
14:31:03 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.

14:31:07 If you all don't mind I am going to come down here and
14:31:10 it's been a long day so I am not going to take up too
14:31:13 much of your time.
14:31:14 But I did want to let you know, and where we are
14:31:22 going.
14:31:24 >>ROSE FERLITA: The only thing gig to say is probably
14:31:27 the same thing would you say at the beginning or end
14:31:29 or in between.
14:31:29 This has been a long process as Mrs. Saul-Sena
14:31:32 probably knows in her chapter for revision.
14:31:35 We have had a very dedicated committee.
14:31:38 We did well.
14:31:39 And certainly not by my efforts, have a very good
14:31:44 cross section, people in the industry that were
14:31:46 reasonable because they want to put autopsy good
14:31:48 product.
14:31:48 They don't want to be criticized.
14:31:50 They want to do something -- they have had people in
14:31:55 our city, Ms. Massey and Ms. Grimes who are in private
14:31:59 practice, and we have had just good cooperation.
14:32:10 Mrs. Vizzi, we thanked you this morning and thank you
14:32:13 again.

14:32:14 I think it's been a very comprehensive give-and-take
14:32:17 and agreeing or disagreeing.
14:32:19 We have a ways to go yet but we thought it was time to
14:32:21 bring this up.
14:32:23 Julia, thank you.
14:32:24 >>JULIA COLE: I want to thank also all the members of
14:32:27 the committee.
14:32:28 It was one of my first assignments when I started with
14:32:30 the city.
14:32:31 I haven't been here two years yet so it hasn't taken
14:32:34 as long as some committees.
14:32:36 It took the appropriate amount of time because we were
14:32:38 dealing with some very significant issues.
14:32:41 >>ROSE FERLITA: And look how easily we forget.
14:32:44 Marty Shelby has been extremely helpful.
14:32:47 >>> Extremely helpful.
14:32:48 I actually provided members of council with a packet
14:32:52 of information in which I described the changes, and I
14:32:57 will have to give you a roster of the members of the
14:32:59 committee because I think it's important for to you
14:33:02 see who all was involved to see how he would came to
14:33:04 the consensus that we came to.

14:33:07 I just start off very quickly by saying that I think
14:33:10 the first thing is everybody agreed that the City of
14:33:12 Tampa, and this is just for the on-site sign
14:33:17 regulations, not for the billboards or anything like
14:33:19 that, that the liability for signage in the City of
14:33:27 Tampa are extreme.
14:33:28 Our signage was right above the remainder -- really
14:33:32 the State of Florida but specifically the jurisdiction
14:33:34 as round us.
14:33:35 And I actually provided you in tab 4, the packet that
14:33:40 I gave you, is a comparison chart of the building
14:33:47 signs indicating what the City of Tampa has, had at
14:33:51 this point, what other jurisdictions V. and I think
14:33:53 that was our starting point.
14:33:55 I don't think anybody on the committee disagreed with
14:33:57 the concept that the city allows too much signage.
14:34:01 And what's in our code is too much.
14:34:04 So we started off with those comments.
14:34:07 From there we did look at other jurisdictions.
14:34:09 We did look specifically at Hillsborough County's
14:34:12 regulations.
14:34:15 It's a very long process of revising their sign code

14:34:20 and Rebecca Kert came over from the county to the city
14:34:22 as we were finishing up and we were able to have a --
14:34:27 and you will see a lot of the changes we made are
14:34:29 based on Hillsborough County's regulations but not
14:34:31 all.
14:34:31 And then some of our regulations that we are proposing
14:34:34 are based on other jurisdictions.
14:34:36 Clearwater also did a terrific job in amending the
14:34:40 sign code to reduce the amount of signage.
14:34:42 That was the premise that we started under.
14:34:44 If you look in the memorandum, which is under tab 1, I
14:34:50 detail many of the non-size changes, and I can just
14:34:56 briefly touch on each one of those.
14:34:59 As to what we did with the sign, how we are going
14:35:01 to -- what we are proposing in terms of making the
14:35:04 signs smaller, lower to the ground and reducing the
14:35:09 amount of signage.
14:35:11 The first issue on page one of my memo is government
14:35:17 signs.
14:35:18 And the fact that government signs, the way the code
14:35:20 currently is, government signs, from current sign
14:35:24 regulations, and I think everybody felt it was

14:35:26 appropriate, unless and accept for the reasons that
14:35:30 the public felt health, safety and welfare to require
14:35:33 the government size current regulations.
14:35:36 The second issue is window signs.
14:35:38 And I think this is actually a significant issue for
14:35:42 everybody.
14:35:43 Everybody has been seeing the proliferation of some of
14:35:46 these businesses that actually paste signs to their
14:35:55 window, sign upon sign and you really can't see in the
14:35:58 windows anymore. That is something we all struggled
14:36:00 with but everybody felt strongly about it.
14:36:02 And currently the regulation in the city, you can have
14:36:04 window signs totally not part of your wall signage,
14:36:10 25% of each one of your windows.
14:36:12 We have reduced that dramatically.
14:36:15 What we are proposing is that window signs only
14:36:20 allowed to have five feet per establishment, which
14:36:24 that is a dramatic change.
14:36:26 And that is something that I will tell you the
14:36:29 committee was very strong on.
14:36:32 Everybody was pretty committed to that.
14:36:34 We all felt very comfortable with that number.

14:36:36 So that's one of the changes we are proposing.
14:36:39 Weep don't currently have a specific requirement or
14:36:42 sign code for sign that is separate and apart from all
14:36:47 signage.
14:36:48 And our other sign annal has been so significant that
14:36:50 it really wasn't a question.
14:36:52 But we are proposing reducing so much of our signage
14:36:54 that we actually create add separate category for
14:36:57 address signs, that we ensure that businesses don't
14:37:00 just take up all their signage with their sign and put
14:37:04 the address there.
14:37:05 Another issue that was a pretty significant issue --
14:37:10 >>MARY ALVAREZ: A lot of these convenience stores have
14:37:12 a lot of these signs that are given to them by the
14:37:16 beer companies.
14:37:17 What are you doing about those?
14:37:19 >>> Currently, those, if they are 25% or less of the
14:37:24 window area, are fine.
14:37:26 They can have it.
14:37:27 You can have anything in your window that's 25% or
14:37:30 less of your window area.
14:37:31 If it's 25% or more then it would technically be in

14:37:34 violation.
14:37:37 We are proposing to change that.
14:37:39 And I will also tell you that one of the proposed
14:37:43 changes is for nonconforming signs.
14:37:47 How are we going to make these changes and ensure that
14:37:49 these changes occur?
14:37:50 And as you know, we can only have a nonconforming sign
14:37:55 regulation.
14:37:57 We are proposing to strengthen that.
14:37:58 But the one type of sign, which will not allow us to
14:38:01 be quote-unquote grandfathered in, is the window
14:38:04 signage.
14:38:06 That's in our opinion -- those come down, so that is
14:38:11 something that that will not be -- there will be a
14:38:14 little bit of grandfathering just to give people time
14:38:17 for those regulations but that portion will not have
14:38:19 the same grandfathering in that other types of signage
14:38:22 will.
14:38:23 And I'm kind of speaking fast because I wanted to
14:38:26 get -- there are other people that want to speak so
14:38:29 just stop me if I'm going too fast or if you have a
14:38:31 question.

14:38:33 And the next one I was going to speak about is
14:38:36 temporary banner signs.
14:38:37 And I think this has also been a fairly significant
14:38:42 issue. The way our current regulation reads is you
14:38:45 can without a permit have a temporary banner for a
14:38:47 certain period of time.
14:38:49 But the problem is that certain period of time comes
14:38:52 and goes, and the temporary banner actually becomes a
14:38:55 permanent banner and it does become an usual you for
14:38:57 code enforcement.
14:38:58 One of the things that we're recommending is first of
14:39:01 all require the temporary banners are actually
14:39:04 permitted to give us kind of when the clock will start
14:39:08 ticking, and second of all, specifically state where
14:39:11 those temporary banners can be.
14:39:13 Pretty much now, there really is no standard except
14:39:18 for right-of-way standards.
14:39:19 So we are proposing that change.
14:39:21 The nonconforming sign regulations --
14:39:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: (off microphone) is that per
14:39:35 location?
14:39:35 Or like per message?

14:39:40 I'm on page 3 of your underlined strike-throughs.
14:39:47 >>JULIA COLE: I think it's intended to be per parcel.
14:39:54 That probably does need to be clearer.
14:39:59 I think it's sort of inherent in that permitting
14:40:01 process but I can clarify that and make sure it's
14:40:03 clear.
14:40:07 >> I'll leave it up to you.
14:40:09 >>> Nonconforming signs, how we currently deal with
14:40:11 nonconforming signs, as a general matter, is if you're
14:40:15 not in compliance with the current regulations as they
14:40:17 currently are.
14:40:18 Again, this isn't an issue because we allow so much
14:40:21 signage.
14:40:21 Nobody is too concerned about taking down what they
14:40:23 have and putting up a new sign because there's so much
14:40:26 allowability.
14:40:27 But what we currently have is that you do not have to
14:40:30 comply with the current sign code unless the property
14:40:37 is under major renovation.
14:40:39 We are changing that.
14:40:42 That if you all have property that's undergoing a
14:40:46 change of use which is specifically defined in here,

14:40:52 you all are required to put up new free standing sign,
14:40:56 new pole sign, unless you can show that the sign that
14:40:58 you currently have complies with the wind load
14:41:02 standard.
14:41:03 And this is an effort to get rid of old signs to
14:41:07 ensure safety, and to deal with the questions that
14:41:10 will come before you, which is one of economic
14:41:13 feasibility.
14:41:13 People who just put up a new sign may feel that we are
14:41:18 just going to force them to take down the sign that
14:41:20 they just put up, and get into economic questions.
14:41:25 This is a method by which we can force some of these
14:41:29 older signs to come down when you have a change of use
14:41:31 in the property, and the entire parcel, and ensure
14:41:35 safety.
14:41:35 So that was something that we all felt was a good
14:41:38 compromise.
14:41:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What I'm curious about on that one,
14:41:43 I think we have all seen examples of this.
14:41:45 To tear down a building, leave the pole up, and it's
14:41:49 pretty obvious why, want to keep it grandfathered, you
14:41:51 know, a big sign or what have you, so then what I

14:41:56 would guess is, when they rebuilt the new building or
14:41:58 maybe it's even a renovation, they leave the box, but
14:42:03 they just change the message on the surface of the box
14:42:06 in that same side.
14:42:08 Okay?
14:42:09 So what I'm wondering about is, if you change the use,
14:42:14 but it meets the wind standards, but it's a new
14:42:19 business, why shouldn't that new business need to
14:42:22 conform to the new size requirements that we have?
14:42:27 >>JULIA COLE: And I will tell you, that was the
14:42:29 subject of a lot of debate.
14:42:30 The question of whether or not -- anytime there's a
14:42:32 change of use you put up a new sign.
14:42:34 Tanned change of use is defined pretty narrowly.
14:42:37 Right now, major renovations, that's pretty much, I
14:42:40 think, almost 75% of a strip center, or you are really
14:42:46 talking about a significant amount of having to change
14:42:49 out.
14:42:49 The change of usage.
14:42:55 Let me read the definition.
14:42:56 When the principle use are a part of the shelter and
14:42:59 or the property is altered from one use to another or

14:43:01 altered from construction of a property to a new use.
14:43:07 County almost be anything in that multi-occupancy
14:43:10 parcel that's being changed out.
14:43:12 And what we didn't want to create, and one of the
14:43:14 thought processes was, if you're changing just a small
14:43:18 business out, do you want to force them to get a new
14:43:21 sign?
14:43:22 Some people would suggest you do and some people would
14:43:25 suggest you don't.
14:43:25 But we chose to tie it more to a safety issue.
14:43:29 If that sign is going to be -- older sign that doesn't
14:43:33 comply with the new regulation, it would -- even if
14:43:37 you are just changing out, say, one of four, you
14:43:42 should comply with wind load standards because it's
14:43:44 not just a question of the visual but also a question
14:43:47 of safety.
14:43:47 So that was the intent, was to tie it to not just the
14:43:53 aesthetics but to the safety issue.
14:43:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I was concerned that we weren't
14:44:03 making enough progress fast enough unless we capture
14:44:06 them when they do change the use, regardless of wind
14:44:10 standards and that sort of thing.

14:44:12 I think what you all have done -- I mentioned you
14:44:17 worked very hard for two years.
14:44:19 What you have done is a good step in the right
14:44:21 direction.
14:44:22 I think we should consider even further.
14:44:25 >>JULIA COLE: And I think that that is something that
14:44:28 is up to council.
14:44:29 I will tell you that there are many on the committee
14:44:32 who felt anytime one of the uses in a multi-occupancy
14:44:38 parcel, new signage.
14:44:39 And I think there were some others that were
14:44:42 concerned.
14:44:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And with that example, that can be
14:44:47 the exception that I would understand, you know, to
14:44:52 change one tenant, why should they have to do the
14:44:54 whole sign?
14:44:55 That might be the exception that we let go.
14:44:58 But when they change the use, I don't know why they
14:45:05 shouldn't have the sign conform like we have them
14:45:08 conform to everything else when we change the use.
14:45:10 Anyway, you can continue.
14:45:12 >>> I think that is one of the things we can go ahead

14:45:13 and look at and decide whether or not making that
14:45:15 change is something council would like to us do.
14:45:17 >>ROSE FERLITA: You know, John, there are a lot of
14:45:22 these things that we continue to kick back and forth
14:45:24 and kick back and forth.
14:45:25 But we felt like if we continued to do it at that
14:45:28 level as a committee, that we would never get the
14:45:30 feedback.
14:45:31 And so that's what this is about.
14:45:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: To move ahead.
14:45:35 >>ROSE FERLITA: Yes, and then with feedback from you
14:45:38 all.
14:45:39 I want to wait till the end of your presentation but I
14:45:41 can't because I'm impatient.
14:45:44 As I acknowledge some of these people, I didn't
14:45:46 acknowledge some of the other ones, and I want to tell
14:45:48 you again, John, when you said you have done a hard
14:45:51 job.
14:45:52 Sometimes I wouldn't even be this.
14:45:55 Della Curry, you would probably appreciate this, was
14:45:58 the person that organized, that sent the e-mails out.
14:46:01 And so we caused less controversy because we had this

14:46:05 issue in budget hearings last week.
14:46:09 We wouldn't have the problem of what they brought up
14:46:13 last week.
14:46:14 But it was just a really collaborative effort of
14:46:17 cooperation and commitment.
14:46:20 >>> And I am going to interrupt myself and back slide
14:46:24 into that.
14:46:25 With Della Curry.
14:46:28 Mostly, she organized everybody and everything.
14:46:31 Each of the meetings were done, done appropriately.
14:46:34 So I wholeheartedly agree.
14:46:36 It was an absolutely pleasure working with her, and
14:46:39 remains.
14:46:40 >>ROSE FERLITA: I'm sorry to interrupt you.
14:46:42 >>JULIA COLE: Oh, that's not a problem. The next item
14:46:46 is the electronic message signs.
14:46:48 And I will tell you right now that is not an issue
14:46:54 that we came with consensus on.
14:46:55 Currently no activated signs are allowed in the city
14:46:58 and that definition of activated sign includes LCD
14:47:02 type signs, electronic message board.
14:47:05 What there has been is a historic policy, changeable

14:47:09 signs are allowed and manual changeables, get the
14:47:12 stick out and move things around.
14:47:15 As technology has changed, it has been a policy that
14:47:18 the electronic message signs can be used instead of
14:47:23 the manual changeable signs but they are not allowed
14:47:27 to change more than once in a 24-hour period.
14:47:35 I will tell you there's not consensus.
14:47:37 Some on the committee said we should go further.
14:47:40 Hillsborough County, I believe, has allowed electronic
14:47:42 message boards that change -- I want top say every six
14:47:46 seconds.
14:47:48 There was a lot of movement there.
14:47:49 So that is something we don't come with consensus on.
14:47:52 But I would recommend that at the very least we would
14:47:55 want to codify the current policy, or if we don't want
14:47:58 to do that, no electronic signs in the city at all
14:48:02 regardless of new technology.
14:48:04 And we only want the ones you can change manually.
14:48:07 So that's going to be a question for you all.
14:48:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: There is a board right now where
14:48:15 the time and temperature change constantly, and they
14:48:18 are interspersed with "buy milk "ow let's say.

14:48:26 I know the time and temperature changes but I didn't
14:48:29 think you were allowed to put the "buy milk" in there.
14:48:33 In.
14:48:35 >>> In fact aren't even allowed to have the time and
14:48:37 temperature change the way the code is.
14:48:41 >> Code enforcement, if you are watching, do I have a
14:48:43 location for you.
14:48:45 But they do this all up and down Kennedy, Platt
14:48:50 Street, Dale Mabry --
14:48:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The time and temperature, they
14:48:55 shouldn't change it but every 24 hours?
14:48:59 >>JULIA COLE: Once every 24 hours.
14:49:01 [ Laughter ]
14:49:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Whatever you do, Julia, it needs to
14:49:07 be clear.
14:49:07 >>JULIA COLE: What I am going for on that issue is
14:49:12 codifying the current allowability.
14:49:15 That doesn't mean you are not going to hear from some
14:49:17 folks that believe that we should go further.
14:49:20 And there may be a middle ground at some point in
14:49:23 terms of making certain locations, et cetera.
14:49:26 But I want to point out to you what I am doing, what I

14:49:28 am proposing to you, that there is not consensus.
14:49:31 That is probably the only issue, we did not have
14:49:33 consensus on.
14:49:41 >> Are they grandfathered in?
14:49:43 >> Some are.
14:49:44 There are some time and temperature signs that are
14:49:46 grandfathered in.
14:49:47 I know reading of the code today, I believe those are
14:49:51 considered activated signs and technically -- but you
14:49:55 don't want to the say they all are because they are
14:49:58 all ones -- there are one that is are grandfathered
14:50:00 in.
14:50:01 To say otherwise probably wouldn't be a fair -- a fair
14:50:04 representation.
14:50:05 Under no set of circumstances is there any
14:50:07 allowability to allow the flashing or the moving
14:50:11 electronic signs to vary.
14:50:13 No way if you read our code can you allow that.
14:50:16 That's clearly an activated -- activated sign.
14:50:20 I'm recommending codifying the current policy which is
14:50:22 to allow electronic signs in lieu of a changeable copy
14:50:27 sign, but have a 24-hour minimum, that they can't

14:50:32 change more than once in a 24-hour period.
14:50:34 But the only issue we had consensus on in the
14:50:38 committee and all members of the committee that would
14:50:40 like to address that issue and I respect as we move
14:50:43 forward in this progress and as we bring this forward
14:50:46 to more and more folks, there will be more and more
14:50:48 folks who have a commentary on that issue.
14:50:52 I think that's going to be an issue we are going to
14:50:54 hear more about.
14:50:58 >> The only thing I would like to discuss on the
14:51:00 electronic signs is the geographic issue.
14:51:05 I think we have had this discussion before.
14:51:07 But I think downtown, in all downtown, across the
14:51:10 nation, it seems like an appropriate vibrant thing to
14:51:14 have, is, you know, maybe we'll have our own little
14:51:17 mini-Times Square.
14:51:19 I don't think there's anything inappropriate about
14:51:21 electronic signs in a downtown area.
14:51:25 And we would have to define what downtown means and
14:51:28 that sort of thing.
14:51:30 But I think it kind of adds to the vibrancy and
14:51:35 enthusiasm and excitement of downtown.

14:51:36 >>> And that may be something where we are reviewing.
14:51:42 Just on the downtown sign mode.
14:51:43 Our committee specifically looked at downtown signage.
14:51:46 But I have put a couple things in here.
14:51:48 Because right now, there is no dedicated sign
14:51:57 regulation for downtown.
14:51:59 For now for purposes of clean-up, the CBD district,
14:52:04 commercial district designation, by definition, either
14:52:08 one, it would have been fine.
14:52:13 Note that the downtown is subject to the sign code.
14:52:16 I will recommend at some time in the future probably a
14:52:22 specific downtown sign regulation, as we have every
14:52:25 other overlay district with specialized district.
14:52:28 And I think downtown is probably the only one that
14:52:30 doesn't have that.
14:52:31 That's not only the discussion for today but note that
14:52:33 particular issue.
14:52:34 And also to note maybe that's an inappropriate place
14:52:37 to have a discussion of whether you want different
14:52:40 types of electronic signs.
14:52:42 >>MARY ALVAREZ: You may as well include the CBD
14:52:47 district while you are at it because that's coming in.

14:52:49 That's the Channelside district.
14:52:50 >>JULIA COLE: Channelside already -- well, you're
14:52:55 right, that's kind after new specialized district.
14:52:58 I can move forward in that.
14:52:59 That may be a good place to start to look at the
14:53:01 specific downtown signage.
14:53:04 >>MARY ALVAREZ: That's pretty new.
14:53:05 That might be a good place to start.
14:53:09 With making sure that they have got a proliferation of
14:53:12 signs in there.
14:53:14 And I like signs but I don't like where they are all
14:53:20 over the place.
14:53:21 What are you doing about banners?
14:53:23 Because that was a big topic, too.
14:53:25 Did you change anything on banners?
14:53:27 >>JULIA COLE: What we have done with the banner
14:53:29 ordinance, currently there is no permit -- which will
14:53:36 be -- putting up temporary banners.
14:53:43 It's really difficult to enforce the temporariness of
14:53:46 the temporary banner regulation.
14:53:48 And we are recommending designating where those
14:53:52 temporary banners are actually allowed to be located.

14:53:58 >> Are you talking about permitting fees, too?
14:54:01 >>> Uh-huh.
14:54:01 >> Do you have a fee schedule somewhere?
14:54:03 >>> That would just be permitted as any other sign is
14:54:06 permitted.
14:54:11 Didn't discuss how we deal with sign permit fees.
14:54:15 But our sign code categorizes the sign regulations and
14:54:19 therefore not requiring a permit, the temporary
14:54:23 banners will now no longer be exempt to the extent
14:54:27 that they are required.
14:54:29 They are not required to have a permit so they would
14:54:31 be treated as any other sign for purposes of
14:54:35 permitting.
14:54:36 >> So like the group at USF, they have their own
14:54:38 banners, that's private property, I guess.
14:54:41 >>> Uh-huh.
14:54:41 >> Do they have to have permits to do that?
14:54:44 >>> If you are going to have a banner on the
14:54:45 right-of-way, then we do have a banner on the
14:54:47 right-of-way.
14:54:47 You are talking about under the way these regulations
14:54:50 are written, they would be required to now comply with

14:54:54 the code for two reasons.
14:54:55 One, they no longer -- signs for safety, public and
14:55:00 welfare which would be required to comply with permit
14:55:03 regulations and the second would be now they would be
14:55:05 required to have a temporary banner.
14:55:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I didn't see in here in usually
14:55:17 older pedestrian or historic areas, or little hanging
14:55:24 signs over the sidewalk, like the --
14:55:32 >>> This would take away from some of those
14:55:34 regulations.
14:55:39 Goes down without these changes.
14:55:43 >>ROSE FERLITA: Are we going to talk about historic
14:55:45 signs?
14:55:46 >>> We are going to talk about historic signs.
14:56:01 The whole -- the whole sign.
14:56:06 In fact a sign of multi-color.
14:56:16 To recognize the way our sign code reads there's not a
14:56:19 specific permitting.
14:56:28 A wall sign.
14:56:29 And then they will be required -- another is the
14:56:33 amount of signage you are allowed for a wall sign.
14:56:36 You can have a sign on your awning in lieu of another

14:56:39 sign.
14:56:39 The awnings in and of themselves will have to be a
14:56:42 single color, and supposed to be opaque, so as you are
14:56:53 driving by in order -- because the problem is and the
14:56:55 trick is you don't want to discourage -- the trick is
14:57:02 to allow people to still want to put on awnings on the
14:57:05 businesses, while at the same time discouraging the
14:57:10 types of awning signs, and I think part of that is the
14:57:15 large amount of availability signage, another place to
14:57:20 put your awning signs.
14:57:21 When you couple this regulation with our building sign
14:57:24 regulation, I think you will see -- finally the
14:57:29 commercial district regulation as I indicated, I'm
14:57:35 proposing a change to the CBD.
14:57:41 The next thing I wanted to touch on very quickly is
14:57:43 what we have for the two big types, what they call the
14:57:50 pylon signs and the wall signs.
14:57:52 That's the big issue.
14:57:53 And currently, our sign code allows the pylon free
14:58:01 standing signs to be 35 feet, if it's located on a
14:58:06 principle arterial or highway or 18 feet on other
14:58:10 streets.

14:58:13 What our proposal is is not the height, but it's a
14:58:19 little more complicated than that.
14:58:24 This is what they do in other jurisdictions, that the
14:58:29 minimum height would be 10 feet, 5 feet from the
14:58:31 roadway.
14:58:33 And as you move back you can get higher, but no higher
14:58:35 than 20 feet.
14:58:37 And the intent is to encourage -- to give the owner of
14:58:46 the property an opportunity if they want to put it a
14:58:49 little closer, they will be a little shorter.
14:58:51 If they want to put it a little further away it can be
14:58:54 a little taller.
14:58:55 That is really the purpose behind that.
14:58:56 And what we are really doing is monument signs, if you
14:59:01 want to be closer, you can be lower, as long as you
14:59:04 meet the site try you angle.
14:59:07 Again if you want to move further back, you can go a
14:59:10 little bit higher.
14:59:13 And we think that it will encourage businesses if you
14:59:16 don't want to have your sign next to somebody else's
14:59:19 sign you can go a little higher.
14:59:20 That's one of the big changes.

14:59:22 The second, and I think this is probably the biggest
14:59:25 change.
14:59:29 >> Where are you looking?
14:59:31 >>> Pa page 4, tab 1, existing and proposed.
14:59:39 Concerns of the area of the sign, the size of the
14:59:41 sign.
14:59:42 Square feet of display area for each lineal feet of
14:59:45 frontage, or 300 square feet, whichever is less.
14:59:49 And so we are getting gigantic signs.
14:59:52 I mean, they are huge.
14:59:53 They are practically billboard size.
14:59:55 And I think the committee was very interested in
14:59:57 reducing that.
14:59:59 What we are proposing is to have signs at a maximum of
15:00:04 50 feet square.
15:00:05 So this is a drastic reduction.
15:00:08 And 507 square feet -- square feet, and minimum of 20
15:00:13 feet, maximum of 50 feet depending on your frontage.
15:00:17 We are talking a very significant -- this is a change
15:00:21 that is similar to Hillsborough County the change and
15:00:22 they went to this kind of minimal signage
15:00:27 allowability.

15:00:28 Clearwater has done the same thing.
15:00:29 And that's why the nonconform regulations become very
15:00:33 important, and how strict you are with the
15:00:35 nonconforming requirement, to keep the signage because
15:00:45 it's going to be a drastic change.
15:00:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: When I sat on the variance board,
15:00:50 it also served as the -- at the time we had a lot of
15:00:57 petitions for sign variances, especially up in New
15:00:59 Tampa, and the company came in with like a big Home
15:01:03 Depot that was set way back from the road and they
15:01:06 want add variance because even the signage that we
15:01:11 were granted under the at the time was a lot, it
15:01:14 wasn't enough.
15:01:16 So the long question, shortened, are these type of
15:01:21 requirements set in stone, 50 feet maximum?
15:01:24 Or can they still go to the Variance Review Board for
15:01:27 a waiver?
15:01:31 >>> If you can show the hardship requirements in the
15:01:35 area.
15:01:37 >> Can we include in the ordinance, as you -- can we
15:01:41 include in the ordinance a specific provision that if
15:01:45 they want to exceed that 50-foot that the committee

15:01:51 agreed on, that they can only come to council for
15:01:53 that?
15:01:54 >>JULIA COLE: If that's your wish, we can draft the
15:01:56 regulation.
15:02:08 >> If we want to put this here versus here, that
15:02:10 tweaking thing.
15:02:11 But if we are going to have an absolute maximum that
15:02:13 we really believe should apply to the whole city, then
15:02:16 I think a variance of that maximum should come to
15:02:19 council and not to a delegated board.
15:02:24 >>ROSE FERLITA: Let me answer that, John.
15:02:27 You're right.
15:02:28 If we as a body decide this is reasonable and it's
15:02:31 going to be drastically different, people are going to
15:02:33 automatically oppose it and start asking for variances
15:02:36 or waivers or what have you.
15:02:39 If you think that that's something that council can
15:02:42 support in terms of workload, that will make it less
15:02:47 likely that you will have a lot of exceptions.
15:02:50 Because if we had crafted this, we are probably going
15:02:53 to abide by it more than any type of board.
15:02:57 But that council is going to have some bigger agenda.

15:03:06 How much proliferation.
15:03:07 But if you're making this rule you are probably going
15:03:10 to be the one to stick to it more than somebody else.
15:03:14 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I think that's a good idea, too.
15:03:24 >>JULIA COLE: I think you should be aware, I think
15:03:28 once you put these regulations in play, it's very
15:03:33 possible that you will see a lot of variance.
15:03:35 And that should be something you all keep in mind,
15:03:38 because I think you will see a lot --
15:03:43 >> And like I say, all the variances of this council.
15:03:48 But on that issue of maximum square footage, I think
15:03:52 that's something that we can sell hard line and the
15:03:56 message will get out there, don't bother coming back.
15:03:58 >>ROSE FERLITA: That's the crux of it, John.
15:04:02 If do you that, absolutely.
15:04:03 But if you don't, there's a tweaking mechanism and
15:04:05 they are going to come and if you set a press dented
15:04:07 by doing that, then remember just like everything
15:04:10 else, if you give too many exceptions then why did do
15:04:13 you this?
15:04:14 And I say you because I am not going to be here.
15:04:17 But that's one of the decisions we'll make.

15:04:21 >> I have a question for Ms. Ferlita and the sign
15:04:23 committee.
15:04:24 I have been impressed by the time controls that we
15:04:27 have across the bay in Pinellas County and I wonder if
15:04:30 you all -- I think that it might be interesting.
15:04:36 As we debate all this, and the public thinks about it,
15:04:39 as they visit some of the communities and see the
15:04:42 differences in the communities, where they have the
15:04:45 more sign control, there's such a qualitative
15:04:48 difference.
15:04:48 And some of them aren't very far away.
15:04:51 >>: And we didn't physically go on a field trip, but
15:04:54 Julia and some of our other committee members did go
15:04:56 through a lot of trouble making comparisons and
15:04:58 bringing them back.
15:04:59 You're it root right. That's not quite the same as us
15:05:02 going there and seeing it but everybody had a
15:05:06 comparison.
15:05:07 >>JULIA COLE: I was going to say the same thing.
15:05:10 We didn't go on a field trip.
15:05:13 And I am going to ask him to come forward.
15:05:16 As soon as I finish this.

15:05:19 To say that he has done a tremendous effort to make us
15:05:22 all aware of what's going on, and not just within the
15:05:25 city but throughout the entire area is an
15:05:32 understatement.
15:05:33 >>ROSE FERLITA: Linda, what he did was he brought the
15:05:35 city of Clearwater's sign to us.
15:05:43 So that's why we rehashed and hashed again.
15:05:47 >> So really it was very amazing.
15:05:49 Mr. Smith was very involved, and some of the other
15:05:53 sign regulations, in drafting those.
15:06:01 He was also a member of the sign industry.
15:06:03 The two of them just did a phenomenal job.
15:06:06 Really bringing it to us, making our lives easier,
15:06:09 realizing that we are busy and they do this every day,
15:06:11 and looking at signs.
15:06:16 Really it was wonderful.
15:06:17 And in fact he's going to get up and talk a little
15:06:19 about that.
15:06:20 But I am going to stop there. One more things to talk
15:06:23 about and that's the wall building signs and then I am
15:06:25 going wrap it up and let you hear from some other
15:06:28 folks.

15:06:29 The wall sign issue per the current regulation is two
15:06:35 square feet of building frontage facing a public
15:06:38 street that you measure when you get two square feet.
15:06:43 The problem with our current regulation that allowed
15:06:47 you to have one wall sign if you were a single
15:06:50 occupancy parcel, one wall sign for each establishment
15:06:55 in a multi-occupancy park.
15:06:57 And that regulation of signs, we are talking about a
15:07:00 strip center.
15:07:01 But say you are talking about a six-story building,
15:07:05 establishment in there having wall signage
15:07:07 allowability, you are now talking about a significant
15:07:10 amount of signage.
15:07:12 We are reducing that.
15:07:16 To one and a quarter building frontage abutting public
15:07:22 street, from 2 square feet to one and a quarter square
15:07:26 feet.
15:07:26 And you get one building sign for single occupancy and
15:07:30 one building sign for each establishment, and for each
15:07:34 establishment with a main door entrance.
15:07:37 If you are in a building, and you have a door to the
15:07:41 street, you get a sign.

15:07:44 If not, they are going to have to be on the.
15:07:55 In your packet, Gloria Moreda and her staff have
15:07:58 provided some pictorials showing in terms whereof
15:08:04 things can be located and what will this will look
15:08:06 like.
15:08:06 I am not going to go through those for now.
15:08:09 I am going to turn it over to Mr. Smith because he's
15:08:11 got all the fun stuff to look at.
15:08:16 And seeing some of the fun stuff that Mr. Smith has.
15:08:21 And I would recommend that we go ahead and listen to
15:08:23 him,.
15:08:25 >> One more question on the -- clearly we have permit
15:08:33 fees for people to come in who want to put up a sign.
15:08:40 If we don't have already, I think this city needs a
15:08:43 permanent sign inspector committed to sign inspection.
15:08:51 My guess is we don't have it and we go to the
15:08:53 administration and they say we can't afford it.
15:08:56 We understand the budget.
15:08:57 I think it should be just like other building permits.
15:09:00 I think that we should increase the permit fee for
15:09:03 signs to pay for that building-
15:09:09 That sign.

15:09:12 >>MARY ALVAREZ: It depends on how much the permit fees
15:09:15 are right now.
15:09:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Regardless.
15:09:18 Even if it's a dollar, and you have 50,000 permits a
15:09:21 year, that would pay for that.
15:09:22 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I am really thinking about USF right
15:09:26 now.
15:09:40 And the corporations that they would be paying to see.
15:09:45 >>> We could pay for the inspector with fines from
15:09:48 illegal signs.
15:09:49 >>ROSE FERLITA: Let me explain something here.
15:09:51 Last year, we created a committee.
15:09:54 Mr. Rotella, you were on it.
15:09:56 I was on it.
15:09:57 Was Marty Shelby on it?
15:09:58 I don't remember.
15:09:59 We went to the mayor's office and had a meeting.
15:10:01 And we are going to be going through a lot of work on
15:10:04 this before -- the first step is bringing it to
15:10:08 council.
15:10:08 And every time we talk about stuff, and that's
15:10:13 enforcement.

15:10:14 And we need an inspector that could do some of this
15:10:17 stuff.
15:10:18 Mr. Rotella went through the trouble of talking to
15:10:21 some people at FDOT, and we give you the authority to
15:10:27 site or to pull or do whatever you want, so we can
15:10:30 have a way of making less sign pollution.
15:10:33 We couldn't do that then.
15:10:34 And we are not going to be able to do that now even
15:10:37 after we refine this.
15:10:39 And that's going to be something we have to address.
15:10:42 The increase of fee to get the inspector salary
15:10:45 covered earlier, or the permitting fees that we have
15:10:48 now.
15:10:49 Do we ask the administration to consider allocating
15:10:52 those to be reinvested in this?
15:10:54 I don't know.
15:10:55 That's another step.
15:10:56 And there were a bunch of steps that we needed to talk
15:11:00 about.
15:11:00 But if we needed to do that at the committee level --
15:11:05 you have to remember many of our conversations in code
15:11:07 enforcement, we need to have enforcement.

15:11:09 Let's see what we do with that once we decide how to
15:11:12 make these revisions.
15:11:29 >>> Commercial site review supervisor, and the signs
15:11:34 for zoning compliance.
15:11:36 I worked with signs for 30 years, developed a number
15:11:40 of sign ordinances that were adopted, that were quite
15:11:48 liberal or signs that had always been much of a
15:11:54 lightning rod.
15:11:55 And I appreciate the aspects you are going through
15:11:57 especially when Tampa has allowed such a generous sign
15:12:02 allowance.
15:12:03 And generally, generally now, a sign ordinance that
15:12:07 reduce that is significantly is going to have a lot of
15:12:09 concern.
15:12:10 But regarding your question about the logistics, we
15:12:15 charge a $55 use fee for every sign.
15:12:19 And then there's a permit charged for the beginning of
15:12:25 sign permit which is 35 to $75 based on the type of
15:12:27 sign.
15:12:28 And so we typically review 60 signs a month.
15:12:35 So 725 a year would be a good standard to work with,
15:12:43 if you are talking about a budget that could support a

15:12:47 sign inspector.
15:12:48 You can do the math.
15:12:49 Currently, we have been told by our directors, we are
15:12:54 not raising fees.
15:12:55 And so we get to you to determine whether or not that
15:13:00 is appropriate based on the issue.
15:13:09 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Would you reiterate about the fees?
15:13:11 I have $55 for the permit --
15:13:15 >>> The fee to make sure that it complies to the sign
15:13:18 ordinance as well as the building code.
15:13:21 >> Okay.
15:13:22 >>> And then after the sign plan is approved,
15:13:30 permitted for a wall sign or free standing sign based
15:13:33 on 35 to $75 based on the size, cost and so forth.
15:13:47 >> Are you relatively new to Tampa, is that right?
15:13:50 >>> Two years.
15:13:51 >> Have you done any research, how long since the
15:13:54 dollar amounts have been changed?
15:13:58 Have they been modernized, I guess is the question.
15:14:14 >>> In chapter 5, everything stayed the same.
15:14:16 So I think over ten years, it's been five years since
15:14:21 many of the building schedules.

15:14:25 But I don't know about the sign code.
15:14:28 >> And the other thing is, and you are obviously
15:14:30 familiar with the industry, very familiar with the
15:14:31 industry, and I think we have some industry folks
15:14:33 here.
15:14:36 My guess is when you go to order a sign from the
15:14:38 industry, you're going to spend, depending on the size
15:14:46 of the plan, how fancy it is and whatever, spend a few
15:14:49 hundred dollars to thousands of dollars, tens of
15:14:52 thousands of dollars maybe if it's really fancy and
15:14:54 big, right?
15:14:55 >>> Yes.
15:14:56 >> So right now, those permitting fees are extremely
15:14:59 incidental, I would guess.
15:15:01 I mean, you are talking about 35, $55 for the
15:15:07 incidental expense when you're talking about thousands
15:15:09 of dollars.
15:15:13 Is that fair to say?
15:15:16 >>> Yes, it is.
15:15:17 >> Mary, I think the critical number -- and we can
15:15:19 talk about this another day, too -- right now there
15:15:22 are 720 sign applications a year on average.

15:15:27 So if you added, just for argument sake, $100, just
15:15:32 for argument sake, $100 for each one of those, then
15:15:36 would you end up with $72,000 a year which would
15:15:38 easily fund the inspector position.
15:15:42 I'm just throwing that out there to say that's the
15:15:45 kind of number we could work with.
15:15:47 Now, we could make it $50 and that means we could
15:15:50 raise $35 a year.
15:16:03 >>MARY ALVAREZ: and I'm trying to digest what you're
15:16:05 saying except I think we would get a lot of people
15:16:08 over here saying, $100 more?
15:16:10 Wow, you know.
15:16:12 I think maybe incrementally doing it, or maybe a
15:16:17 smaller sign.
15:16:24 And it's been over ten years since anything has been
15:16:28 done
15:16:38 >>> There are a lot of visuals.
15:16:41 I worked on ordinances where it's based on the square
15:16:43 feet of signs.
15:16:44 As you mentions, it encourages small signs with small
15:16:48 fees.
15:16:48 The larger the sign the larger the fee.

15:16:51 There are a number of ways you can skin the cat.
15:16:53 >>MARY ALVAREZ: We don't want to skin a cat.
15:16:55 We want to make it compatible, or where people could
15:17:01 really digest this.
15:17:10 >> I just can't remember.
15:17:11 Did we make a comparison of our fees versus
15:17:14 Hillsborough County?
15:17:15 Remember that, Julia?
15:17:22 Is that something that somebody can do for added
15:17:25 discussion?
15:17:27 $70, period, for anything?
15:17:29 A baby sign and a big sign?
15:17:31 $70?
15:17:38 That's not good.
15:17:39 We are going to have to look for someplace else for
15:17:41 dollars.
15:17:42 We are going to have to compete or people are going to
15:17:44 be putting those signs right over the boundary.
15:17:51 If it's too onerous, and they say, heck, I can get
15:17:55 started in the business, and if it's more competitive
15:17:58 in the county, you know.
15:18:00 We had that conversation about occupational fees,

15:18:02 remember?
15:18:03 >>JULIA COLE: I would like to ask Mr. Smith to come
15:18:09 up.
15:18:14 >>ROSE FERLITA: Nice tie, by the way.
15:18:17 >>> Bob Smith, the owner of electric sign company.
15:18:19 I'm a state certified electric sign contractor.
15:18:22 And I have been with Hillsborough County on their
15:18:24 committee writing the last reviews, also on this new
15:18:27 committee.
15:18:27 And we have done some bet are things here with the
15:18:33 city than we did with the county.
15:18:34 We improved on it just a little more.
15:18:36 Way want to show you --
15:18:53 >> We like the fancy audio visual presentations.
15:18:58 We like that.
15:19:20 >>> Right now, in the City of Tampa, this is the way
15:19:23 your signs look in the City of Tampa.
15:19:25 When the City of Tampa, the code right now, take the
15:19:31 square footage, and take the whole outside, and figure
15:19:37 out the square footage, and this is what you call a
15:19:48 pole sign.
15:19:55 Low to the ground.

15:19:57 But with the current code, monument signs have 15-foot
15:20:02 setbacks.
15:20:06 The pole sign has 5-foot setbacks.
15:20:08 So what we did, we got together and we got rid of the
15:20:11 word pole signs, monument signs.
15:20:15 >>ROSE FERLITA: Why don't you grab the hand mike in
15:20:17 case somebody can't hear you.
15:20:18 Thanks.
15:20:21 >>> What we did was we combined the two signs, pole
15:20:24 signs.
15:20:25 Now we are calling them free-standing signs.
15:20:32 This is a typical -- I don't think you can see all of
15:20:44 it.
15:20:45 >>> It looks good.
15:20:46 >>> That Sarasota free standing sign.
15:20:48 You notice there's some embellishment.
15:20:50 And there's fancy pole.
15:20:56 We have got -- gotten a way with the new code now, we
15:21:05 are going to be architecturally designed to the
15:21:09 bidding.
15:21:09 In this case, we did a nice job on the sign anyway.
15:21:16 I am going to show you other signs here.

15:21:23 There's another free standing sign.
15:21:26 >> I would call that a monument sign.
15:21:28 >>> Yes, would you call that a monument sign but we
15:21:30 are going calling it a free standing sign.
15:21:32 We are going to move that free standing sign five feet
15:21:34 up to the property line, where it used to be back 15
15:21:38 feet.
15:21:41 Now, the city with the current code right now would
15:21:48 count Tampa whole sign for square foot.
15:21:53 The sign is actually -- that is the sign.
15:21:57 The rest of it is structure.
15:22:03 Not be penalized for the square foot annal.
15:22:06 We are going to count the sign area.
15:22:11 So whether or not you have this architecture because
15:22:15 we have all this extra square foot that we can work
15:22:17 with.
15:22:19 >> Is there a limit on your architectural --
15:22:22 >>> Yes, there is.
15:22:22 And I have a drawing hear for you.
15:22:25 >> Everything is subject to review.
15:22:29 >>> Of course.
15:22:32 Here's one architecturally designed.

15:22:37 Now remember going back to free standing.
15:22:38 Free standing sign.
15:22:40 Forget the piling.
15:22:42 Forget the pole.
15:22:43 Free standing. This has to be 15 feet in height.
15:22:46 15 feet in height, at 10-foot, 5-foot setback.
15:22:54 We every five feet we go back another foot.
15:22:58 We have a roof.
15:22:58 We have nice columns here.
15:23:00 And we have a nice little base around here.
15:23:03 But we limit the space around the sign to three feet
15:23:07 in any direction to three feet.
15:23:13 Another one we did in Ruskin.
15:23:46 You will not see the poles anymore.
15:23:47 You will not see the structure.
15:23:49 A single pole.
15:23:56 That pole would be covered.
15:23:57 And it must be covered by a 30-inch space.
15:24:00 Now it could be covered with brick, block, wood,
15:24:03 stucco.
15:24:05 But we have to cover it.
15:24:07 You are not going to be seeing the structure.

15:24:08 We are going to get a little more architectural.
15:24:11 This one happens to be in Hillsborough County.
15:24:12 And you notice that the sign cabinet matches the
15:24:15 building.
15:24:17 This is where we are going.
15:24:18 The county is going this route, too.
15:24:20 And the city, that's what we want to do.
15:24:22 We want to get architects.
15:24:25 And the pole sign, around the monument sign.
15:24:31 You might say, well, monument signs, we want to lower
15:24:37 it to the ground.
15:24:40 And the problem is, when we came up with that 10-foot
15:24:44 height with a 5-foot setback it would be too low to
15:24:47 the ground.
15:24:48 And we found this in Hillsborough County.
15:24:58 This is what you wind up with.
15:25:01 So we are going to get everybody to move the sign up
15:25:06 higher.
15:25:07 In order to do that, this is another picture of that.
15:25:15 That's also a sign.
15:25:16 And that sign there is at our maximum height.
15:25:19 So you can pick or choose which way you want do go.

15:25:23 But we are still going to have the architectural
15:25:25 development into it.
15:25:27 Another one is a design here, that if you decide, you
15:25:32 would call this a monument, we call it free standing.
15:25:36 If you decide you want to bring this base all the way
15:25:38 to the ground, no clearance, that's what we call free
15:25:43 standing signs.
15:25:46 Free standing signs.
15:25:51 Here's another one.
15:25:52 This is a beautiful free standing sign.
15:25:55 Now, on square footage, you are going to be noticing
15:25:58 that.
15:26:01 This one here, with the new code, the roof does not
15:26:13 count as part of signage.
15:26:14 Just sign itself.
15:26:17 Remember, 300 square feet to 50 square feet.
15:26:22 350.
15:26:23 So here's where we are going to look for maximum
15:26:27 square footage.
15:26:28 Here, this is a different type of sign.
15:26:30 Now this has the letters into the metal.
15:26:34 So they could count this whole entire area here.

15:26:39 But that's not the sign, that's the structure.
15:26:44 It needs to be up, down and around the letters.
15:26:47 That's your square footage.
15:26:48 Even though it's built a little differently.
15:26:50 That's where we are going with some of these
15:26:52 structures.
15:26:54 >>MARY ALVAREZ: What about the other side of the sign?
15:26:57 >>> Same thing.
15:26:57 Same thing.
15:26:58 Now remember, we only count one side of the sign.
15:27:03 Even though Hillsborough County, they are at 100
15:27:06 square feet, they still get 50 square feet per side.
15:27:09 So that's what we are doing.
15:27:10 We are kind of following Hillsborough County's code.
15:27:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Bob, just out of curiosity.
15:27:20 Ballpark estimate, that's that sign we are looking at
15:27:22 right there, give or to ta $1,000.
15:27:26 >>> Oh, 20,000.
15:27:27 >>: Give me some other ideas.
15:27:32 >>> 8,000.
15:27:40 Probably about 12, 15 that you.
15:27:44 >> I just wanted to put that into context, Mary.

15:27:49 He said 10,000, 15,000, 20,000, in the context, if we
15:27:55 have a fee structure that is adjusted a little bit up.
15:28:01 Spending money on signs, an extra 50 bucks.
15:28:09 >>> There's some preliminaries before you can get down
15:28:11 to the city for the permit.
15:28:17 We have a package rate whether at this time city or
15:28:19 the county that runs from had to 500 dollars.
15:28:23 If you look for the Florida State certified engineers
15:28:27 or any of them, and there's 125 to $150 engineering.
15:28:33 Now, we have to come down to the city.
15:28:40 But we are up to 200 some odd dollars right off the
15:28:43 top.
15:28:43 Now we have to make two trips down to the city.
15:28:46 Okay.
15:28:47 Drop it off.
15:28:52 I don't know if you want to add any more to this.
15:28:55 Personally, I think the way to go, have code
15:28:57 enforcement -- county has five sign code inspectors.
15:29:09 >> There's five people to do that.
15:29:10 We aren't there yet.
15:29:11 And we have to figure a way to fund it.
15:29:13 And I am not trying to burden the industry or anything

15:29:16 else.
15:29:16 But I figure if it hasn't been visited in ten years.
15:29:21 >>> Well, some counties that we do work in, they go by
15:29:24 the cost of the sign.
15:29:27 That's probably the fairer way.
15:29:28 Tau a 4 by 8, just a simple little sign, the cost for
15:29:33 engineering, it's going to cost the same for that
15:29:36 permit, whether it's a $50 that you sign or $200 sign.
15:29:40 It's tough to go in there with a $500 sign and you
15:29:43 have to give $400 for a permit.
15:29:47 That might be the fair way.
15:29:49 >>ROSE FERLITA: Bob, that comes back a little bit to
15:29:52 where I am kind of in disagreement with Mr.
15:29:54 Dingfelder, because seems like we would have to bite
15:29:56 the bullet and get some of the code unrespectors to
15:29:59 initiate the fees from citations, when you start
15:30:03 having that be reinvested as opposed to what the
15:30:07 expenses are already.
15:30:08 I think with all the violations that we were talking
15:30:14 about, it would be pretty quick that if you have code
15:30:18 enforcement officers allocated, could you get enough
15:30:21 revenue right there to just jump start, and then

15:30:24 self-support.
15:30:26 One thing too that we talked about, and I really like,
15:30:28 and I didn't think about this, because I didn't know
15:30:30 the comparison of how they measure the county and we
15:30:33 measure here, on the signs that Bob showed us, it's
15:30:35 really nice because in a city we are measuring the
15:30:38 total thing.
15:30:39 So, you know, because you want to advertise your
15:30:42 business as much as you can, you want that whole space
15:30:44 to be used up on but now without too much
15:30:50 exaggeration, we have that 3-foot board area round
15:30:53 that you want it to be pretty because it represents
15:30:55 your business.
15:30:56 That's one of the changes that I think we need because
15:30:58 it makes it look pretty big, on some of their space
15:31:01 that they don't want to give up.
15:31:06 >>> Absolutely.
15:31:06 Is there any question about the monument or pole
15:31:08 signs?
15:31:09 >>GWEN MILLER: That's it?
15:31:13 Moving on.
15:31:14 There's more.

15:31:14 >>GWEN MILLER: It's getting late.
15:31:15 >>> We are going to get into the wall signs here.
15:31:18 And what we are finding is that the city, when you
15:31:26 encounter a wall sign, and I have a great picture
15:31:29 here -- 1.25 for every linear foot.
15:31:46 But the way, the proper way to address this wall
15:31:49 sign --
15:32:29 The way the city looks at wall signs right now, this
15:32:34 is a set of individual letters put on the wall.
15:32:38 So we don't want to count part of the wall as the
15:32:42 sign.
15:32:42 We want to count the sign.
15:32:45 It has to be on.
15:32:47 And has LED.
15:32:50 We are going to LED now, because it's a lot more -- 12
15:32:56 volts, the same price.
15:32:57 We give a five-year warranty on it.
15:32:59 We are going to go back and talk about the electronic
15:33:02 signs.
15:33:02 It's kind whereof we are going with that.
15:33:05 Under wall signs here, City of Tampa would take the
15:33:09 individual channel letters that I show you there and

15:33:11 they would draw a rectangle, a 32-square foot sign.
15:33:17 The proper way to do this is what Hillsborough County
15:33:20 does, is you draw a recollection tangle round.
15:33:28 Come up with 20 square feet. This is a proper way to
15:33:31 do a wall sign.
15:33:32 Right now, the way they do, for example, you get an
15:33:38 ice cream cone, and it said Tom's ice cream.
15:33:42 They make the ice cream cone a little bigger than the
15:33:44 actual copy.
15:33:45 Well, the city would go around that big rectangle but
15:33:48 all the background space counted most of the wall as
15:33:51 the sign.
15:33:52 The sign is this.
15:33:53 This is what we are trying to bring into the new code.
15:33:56 I think it's going to work out very well.
15:34:01 Any questions on wall signs?
15:34:02 Okay.
15:34:07 Electronic signs.
15:34:08 Here's one you all know.
15:34:10 Electronic signs.
15:34:11 Now remember, we are talking about going from 300
15:34:14 square feet now to 50 square feet per sign.

15:34:19 And naturally, we really like electronic signs.
15:34:24 We like them.
15:34:25 There's if we are going from 300 square feet down to
15:34:30 50 square feet you have a multiple occupancy parcel,
15:34:36 each one of the stores is going to have a chance to
15:34:38 get on there, have some kind of advertisement.
15:34:41 Because you know the great big signs, you have already
15:34:43 seen in Brandon, we are bringing down a lot of them
15:34:45 now going to 50 square feet and some of the copies is
15:34:48 so small you have to stand next to the to see it.
15:34:50 With electronic signs going, that will take care of
15:34:53 that.
15:34:54 Electronic signs, in the State of Florida, state owned
15:34:57 electronic signs, no permits required, they can run
15:34:59 whatever they want.
15:35:00 Florida State fairgrounds, big sign.
15:35:02 USF.
15:35:05 Sole color electronic signs.
15:35:08 HDC.
15:35:11 Plant High School.
15:35:12 Plant High School sign is an electronic sign.
15:35:15 All these signs stay on, no restrictions.

15:35:21 Now let's talk about the City of Tampa electronic
15:35:23 signs.
15:35:24 Performing Arts Center.
15:35:26 Convention center.
15:35:29 Tampa Theatre, the old Tampa Theatre.
15:35:31 Three electronic signs.
15:35:33 And the aquarium.
15:35:34 Four electronic signs this city owns.
15:35:37 Now, if it's good enough for the city, and it's good
15:35:41 enough for the state, it's good enough for all of us.
15:35:44 And there are no restrictions on those at all.
15:35:48 Those signs are moving every day.
15:35:49 They are advertising.
15:35:50 >>MARY ALVAREZ: we can change that.
15:35:53 >>> Then you can change it.
15:35:54 It has to be one or the other.
15:35:56 We don't see it as a safety issue because people say,
15:35:58 oh, I'm going to get in an accident while readding the
15:36:01 sign.
15:36:02 Well, if that were true they would have shut these
15:36:05 signs down a long time ago.
15:36:07 There's no evidence that that really happens.

15:36:08 So that's where we are going with electronic signs.
15:36:11 But if you are going to have an electronic sign, you
15:36:14 reduce the square footage way down.
15:36:16 Now you can do what you want.
15:36:20 Anything else would you like to ask me?
15:36:22 >>ROSE FERLITA: No, that's enough from your point.
15:36:25 You are establishing some guidelines and criteria and
15:36:27 that's where we are going to have to byte the bullet
15:36:30 themselves.
15:36:30 Remember a few years ago when Charlie Miranda was the
15:36:33 chairman, when we don't like signs but on road
15:36:37 construction we have this billboard that advertises
15:36:39 all the names why do you need the council members so
15:36:42 big?
15:36:43 Somebody else has to make a smaller sign.
15:36:45 So what's good for what we dictate should be the same
15:36:47 criteria that we use as a government so that's going
15:36:49 to be something, too.
15:36:51 It's not fair.
15:36:59 >> Thank you, Bob.
15:36:59 >>JULIA COLE: I think we should maybe go ahead and
15:37:02 wrap this up.

15:37:02 You all have had along day that's a lot of information
15:37:06 to take in.
15:37:07 And what I am going to suggest at this point, unless
15:37:12 they have something they want to submit, that what we
15:37:15 dot Do is take in some of the comments that we heard
15:37:18 today, and go ahead and put this into an ordinance
15:37:23 form, and send it out, so T.H.A.N. and some of the
15:37:29 interested parties, Tampa Bay builders association,
15:37:31 schedule another workshop, and bring it back to you.
15:37:34 In the meantime, see if you want to call me with any
15:37:38 additional comments or questions and we can go ahead
15:37:40 and gauge some of the reaction to some of these
15:37:42 issues.
15:37:43 I think we indicated at the beginning of this that the
15:37:46 electronic sign issue is probably the only issue.
15:37:50 But I think as you can see, it's something fairly
15:37:56 dramatic but not so dramatic, other jurisdictions will
15:38:01 be encouraging taller signs, prettier signs, better
15:38:05 design, and comply with the architecture of the
15:38:08 building, and that it really will be something that
15:38:14 will reduce the amount of signage in the City of
15:38:16 Tampa, which again everybody thought was very

15:38:18 important.
15:38:21 Again, and I will have to say it again, this was a
15:38:23 pleasure.
15:38:24 The members of the sign committee were an absolute
15:38:27 pleasure to work with.
15:38:28 I think this is a really good process.
15:38:31 And it was a really good starting point.
15:38:35 And we'll see where we go from here.
15:38:38 >>ROSE FERLITA: Thanks to you, too.
15:38:39 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to close the workshop.
15:38:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Question.
15:38:43 Real quick.
15:38:44 I'm sorry.
15:38:44 Ms. Miller, I don't know if you were here during the
15:38:47 discussion about the fee and the possibility of
15:38:54 dedicated sign inspector.
15:38:56 But anyway, I think everybody on council would like to
15:39:00 have that discussion continue with the administration.
15:39:04 And if we need to do an ordinance, I don't know if
15:39:07 these fees are in the ordinance or not.
15:39:09 If they are, then we should address it in this
15:39:11 ordinance change, and if it's not in the ordinance,

15:39:15 fine.
15:39:23 Cindy Miller: I think our department is now growth
15:39:26 management and development services, as of this
15:39:29 morning.
15:39:34 What I just want to mention, I think best approach at
15:39:36 this point is not to be concerned with this ordinance
15:39:39 for that purpose.
15:39:40 I think what we need to do in administration is work
15:39:43 with my colleague in code enforcement, work with my
15:39:45 staff, because I think we have to first determine what
15:39:49 we want to have accomplished before we look at the
15:39:51 permit.
15:39:52 It has been about five years since construction
15:39:54 service center had a permit adjustment as to how it is
15:39:58 calculated.
15:39:59 And somebody who continually does look at revenue
15:40:05 sources.
15:40:05 But I want to be able to measure the work performance
15:40:08 first.
15:40:09 So we'll be back at a later date.
15:40:11 I don't think it's something that needs to be done as
15:40:13 part of this ordinance.

15:40:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Need to close the workshop.
15:40:16 >>MARY ALVAREZ: So moved.
15:40:16 >> Second.
15:40:17 (Motion carried).
15:40:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Any information by council members?
15:40:29 >>ROSE FERLITA: In a.
15:40:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Two quick things.
15:40:32 I have some handouts for the council members from
15:40:34 today's arts council meeting. The arts council is
15:40:37 doing some phenomenal things in our community, for
15:40:41 older people and then activities for school children
15:40:43 that are just so impressive and wonderful.
15:40:46 And I want to share those with you all.
15:40:48 And secondly, we had a great meeting yesterday morning
15:40:51 about undergrounding.
15:40:52 And there is new rules coming out of Tallahassee,
15:40:56 which encourage it.
15:40:57 And I will share that information as well.
15:41:01 >> Thank you.
15:41:02 Mr. Dingfelder?
15:41:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
15:41:05 I have been having ongoing discussions with Gloria

15:41:08 Moreda and Roy LaMotte regarding residential fences or
15:41:12 near the right-of-way, and I won't bore with you those
15:41:14 details.
15:41:14 But anyway, it was suggested I put this in the form of
15:41:20 a motion so I will.
15:41:21 I would like a report back from staff in, let's say,
15:41:26 eight weeks on this issue.
15:41:28 Residential fences on or near the right-of-way.
15:41:33 >>CHAIRMAN: Motion and second.
15:41:34 (Motion carried).
15:41:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Anything else?
15:41:47 (off microphone).
15:41:48 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
15:41:51 >>THE CLERK: Zoning administrator decision.
15:41:57 And we have set it originally for September 7th.
15:42:00 But as of this week we have received a letter asking
15:42:02 for it to be withdrawn.
15:42:06 I just want a motion.
15:42:08 >> So moved.
15:42:09 >> Second.
15:42:09 (Motion carried)
15:42:10 >>THE CLERK: Based on the July 13th e-mail from

15:42:19 Gloria Moreda, application was consistent with section
15:42:22 27-272-D, city code, it's better to withdraw the above
15:42:30 referenced appeal.
15:42:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Anything else?
15:42:41 >>> 15-20.
15:42:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I believe tomorrow is the last day
15:42:46 when people can submit their application for the
15:42:48 Planning Commission.
15:42:49 And I wanted for us to go ahead and set a date when
15:42:51 the applicants are going to appear before council.
15:42:53 Because some of the people who called me about it have
15:42:56 wondered when we are going to come and get it on their
15:42:58 calendar.
15:43:02 We are going to have a vacancy on the Planning
15:43:04 Commission.
15:43:04 And we haven't yet set the date for them to come
15:43:09 before council.
15:43:11 >> I'm confused.
15:43:12 Was that to Planning Commission?
15:43:16 >>THE CLERK: We received about four.
15:43:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Set a time now because people have
15:43:28 been calling and asking, I know that City Council has

15:43:31 this process of having us appear before council, when
15:43:34 is it?
15:43:35 I said, I don't know.
15:43:36 I called the clerk.
15:43:37 And the clerk said we haven't set it yet.
15:43:39 So I was just suggesting.
15:43:43 Can we please not dot on August 17th?
15:43:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Tomorrow is the deadline.
15:43:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So anybody that's interested.
15:44:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can we do it on the 24th?
15:44:04 When do we usually hear?
15:44:09 >>GWEN MILLER: 9:30.
15:44:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: How long do we give them, two
15:44:16 minutes, three minutes?
15:44:17 >>ROSE FERLITA: Depending on how many applicants we
15:44:21 get, let's determine how much time we can allocate.
15:44:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No more than three minutes.
15:44:27 >>ROSE FERLITA: Oh, no more than three minutes.
15:44:29 >>THE CLERK: I believe the last time you had three
15:44:32 minutes but I believe also you had an interview
15:44:34 process you gave them one minute apiece.
15:44:37 >>> The last time we had like 15 people.

15:44:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No, that was the --
15:44:46 >>ROSE FERLITA: Then give them two minutes.
15:44:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So I make a motion that we give the
15:44:51 people who ar replying for the vacancy on the Planning
15:44:53 Commission two minutes on the 24th at --
15:45:01 >>ROSE FERLITA: With the understanding they know
15:45:02 coming.
15:45:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: To share their thoughts.
15:45:09 >> Motion and second.
15:45:09 (Motion carried).
15:45:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm sorry, one other thing.
15:45:14 I'm sure several of you have noticed and many of our
15:45:17 residents have noticed, across -- the Bayshore from A
15:45:21 cross from the tower, the city constructed an 8-foot
15:45:24 tall, I call it, a bunker, a concrete building, and we
15:45:29 have gotten a lot of calls and lot of complaints about
15:45:31 the concrete structure, and people say why are we
15:45:35 building it, and this and that.
15:45:37 I just want to make known, the wastewater department
15:45:40 is building it to house an emergency generator.
15:45:45 Emergency generators are extremely important to our
15:45:47 wastewater system especially for emergency

15:45:49 preparedness.
15:45:49 And that was the folks at their request along with
15:45:54 Pete Daignault.
15:45:55 And they are acknowledging the fact we need to have a
15:45:58 generator nearby.
15:45:59 But they are asking that perhaps we can reconsider the
15:46:01 location of it.
15:46:02 Because it's very unsightly, and I talked to the mayor
15:46:06 about it as well.
15:46:08 But Steve Daignault is a good guy, and he agreed that
15:46:12 we would at least look at some alternative locations.
15:46:17 Of course always the function is money and that sort
15:46:19 of thing.
15:46:19 But anybody who is watching that's upset about that
15:46:21 concrete bunker just know that the city is looking at
15:46:25 it.
15:46:25 We can't guarantee what the end result will be.
15:46:27 But we are looking at alternatives.
15:46:29 >>ROSE FERLITA: Where does Mr. Daignault live?
15:46:33 >>GWEN MILLER: We now go to our audience portion.
15:46:36 We have one person that wants to speak.
15:47:14 (city Council adjourned)

15:47:18