City of Tampa
Tampa City Council
Thursday, September 28, 2006
5:01 p.m. Meeting
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04:51:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Tampa City Council is called to order.
05:02:17 The chair will yield to Mr. Kevin White.
05:02:20 >>KEVIN WHITE: Thank you, Madam Chair.
05:02:23 It's my honor to introduce Kathy Conner, first
05:02:27 Presbyterian church of downtown Tampa to give the
05:02:30 invocation for tonight.
05:02:31 If we would remain standing for the Pledge of
05:02:35 >> Please pray with me.
05:02:36 Merciful and loving God, we are full of gratitude as we
05:02:40 consider the legacy of faithful and generous service as
05:02:45 represented in this room.
05:02:45 Lord, you have called us all to care for the people of
05:02:48 this city, and we are particularly grateful for Gwen
05:02:51 Miller, Rose Ferlita, Linda Saul-Sena, John Dingfelder,
05:02:56 Kevin White, Mary Alvarez, and Shawn Harrison who have
05:03:00 served Tampa with imagination, intelligence and love.
05:03:04 These men and women are a sign of your goodness to our
05:03:08 community and we ask that you grant them the strength
05:03:10 and courage they will need as they lead us into the
05:03:13 In your name we pray, amen.
05:03:22 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
05:03:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Roll call.
05:03:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
05:03:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
05:03:36 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Here.
05:03:37 >>ROSE FERLITA: Here.
05:03:39 >>KEVIN WHITE: Here.
05:03:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
05:03:44 We need to open item number 1.
05:03:46 >> So moved.
05:03:47 >> Second.
05:03:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Have a motion and second.
05:03:48 All in favor of the motion, aye.
05:03:50 Before we begin, I'm going to let Mr. David Smith
05:03:53 coming up and give us a preview of what we're going to
05:03:59 do tonight.
05:04:02 >>DAVID SMITH: I think what we'll do, I think the
05:04:04 administration will give you information on the budget,
05:04:06 and this, of course, is your second budget hearing.
05:04:08 It is the hearing at which you will adopt the final
05:04:12 The administration will give you the information on the
05:04:14 budget items, some of the administrators will provide
05:04:17 you additional detail.
05:04:19 And then at the end, I will summarize exactly what the
05:04:22 context is, so it's clear what action you need to take
05:04:26 tonight and what the limitations are on that action and
05:04:29 what the processes are that apply.
05:04:31 So I think that might be the best way to proceed at
05:04:34 this time.
05:04:35 As you know, it is a public hearing, and we will have
05:04:37 to keep the hearing open even when you're doing your
05:04:42 So what we'll do, if you don't mind, we'll let the
05:04:46 administration present the budget cuts that have been
05:04:48 prepared, explain the rationale behind it, and then you
05:04:52 need to know that you need to hear from the public
05:04:55 before you take any action.
05:04:56 That's part of the requirements.
05:05:00 >>ROSE FERLITA: Mr. Smith, before the administration
05:05:04 comes forward, I have perhaps one or two procedural
05:05:06 questions I would like you to clarify so there's no
05:05:09 confusion, at least for me later tonight.
05:05:12 We will be presented with the administration, with the
05:05:16 Mayor is suggesting to balance this budget.
05:05:20 Hypothetically, if what is presented to us does not
05:05:25 meet the approval of the majority of this Council,
05:05:28 procedurally, tell me what happens at that point.
05:05:32 >>DAVID SMITH: Procedurally, it depends on what this
05:05:35 Council wants to do.
05:05:36 Under both the statute and the charter, it is uniquely
05:05:40 within the prerogative of this Council to make changes
05:05:44 to the budget that it deems is necessary and fit for
05:05:47 the sound economic management of the city.
05:05:49 So if you are unprepared to move forward with the
05:05:53 package as presented to you, you will need to have some
05:05:56 discussion on the types of changes.
05:05:59 I would assume that this will be pursuant to some
05:06:02 analysis of the budget, that each of you have engaged
05:06:05 in, and you may, because unfortunately you cannot talk
05:06:08 to each other due to the Sunshine Law, may have to
05:06:11 share your thinking in this process.
05:06:14 And that is what is contemplated.
05:06:16 Literally, you will share your thinking with each other
05:06:19 while the public gets to see that thinking, so they
05:06:21 have an opportunity to understand it, and they do have
05:06:23 an opportunity to come and comment.
05:06:25 That is part of what is contemplated.
05:06:27 So I think what you'll have to do, the object of this
05:06:30 evening will be for you all to reach a consensus, that
05:06:34 is at least four Council members that can approve a
05:06:37 balanced budget, and you will then approve the millage
05:06:42 as well.
05:06:42 Now, I said that in the wrong order.
05:06:44 As you know, the statute contemplates you approve the
05:06:48 millage first.
05:06:49 You must approve them by separate votes and then you
05:06:52 will approve the budget.
05:06:53 But I don't think there's a shortcut to this process.
05:06:55 It's going to require a lot of discussion if you are
05:07:00 unprepared to go forward with the package presented
05:07:02 from the administration.
05:07:03 Obviously if you have an open mind and you want to hear
05:07:05 what the administration has to say first and you will
05:07:08 include that in your evaluation.
05:07:09 Ultimately, you guys will have to talk your way through
05:07:13 >>ROSE FERLITA: As a follow-up question and I agree
05:07:15 with you, we have all come here with open minds as we
05:07:17 have in the past in terms of dialogue and discussion,
05:07:20 each of us have done our own research and each of us
05:07:22 have our own opinion.
05:07:24 In the event that none of the opinions appear to a
05:07:27 majority of the other Council members, what happens as
05:07:29 we sit here based on what had occurred last time with
05:07:32 the budget I think as it was suggested by Mr. Harrison.
05:07:38 Do we go back to that --
05:07:42 >>DAVID SMITH: The law is that the tentative budget,
05:07:46 which is what you approved at your first hearing, is
05:07:48 the applicable budget until you approve a final budget.
05:07:51 So you currently have approved the tentative budget for
05:07:54 the City of Tampa.
05:07:56 And until you approve a final budget, that will be the
05:08:00 operative budget.
05:08:01 >>ROSE FERLITA: Tentative nonetheless.
05:08:03 >>DAVID SMITH: Tentative nonetheless.
05:08:05 >>ROSE FERLITA: I'm sure I'll have more questions.
05:08:08 Thank you for that clarification, Mr. Smith.
05:08:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. Smith.
05:08:11 One quick question, just to clarify, does Council have
05:08:15 the option to go back to the original budget presented
05:08:17 to us by the administration two weeks ago?
05:08:20 Or did the action by the majority of Council members
05:08:22 last time preclude that?
05:08:24 >>DAVID SMITH: The Council does not have the option to
05:08:26 go back to the budget that was submitted initially by
05:08:29 the administration last time.
05:08:32 Under 200-065-2-C you have set the millage now at a
05:08:38 You cannot go above that ceiling.
05:08:40 And that ceiling is with a reduction that you are now
05:08:42 contemplating today.
05:08:44 And you have an administrative presentation with
05:08:45 respect to where the administration believes those cuts
05:08:49 can best come.
05:08:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
05:08:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Before we begin, I would like to let the
05:08:55 audience know that the reason Ms. Mary Alvarez is not
05:08:57 here tonight, her mother passed this morning.
05:08:59 So she will not be able to come to the meeting tonight.
05:09:03 Mr. White, we'll now turn to you.
05:09:05 >>KEVIN WHITE: This is the second public hearing of the
05:09:07 City of Tampa, fiscal year 2007 year budget.
05:09:11 This is the second public hearing for the City of
05:09:14 Fiscal year 2007 year budget.
05:09:15 The proposed millage is 6.408 mills which is 15.61%
05:09:21 more than the rolled back millage rate of 5.5430 mills.
05:09:26 The property tax funds are used to support the general
05:09:29 fund operating budget of the city.
05:09:31 The fund includes such departments as fire rescue, the
05:09:34 police, human resources, parks, recreation and public
05:09:43 >> Thank you.
05:09:44 Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.
05:09:45 I'm Bonnie Wise, director of revenue and finance.
05:09:48 I'm going to take you through a Powerpoint
05:09:51 As was mentioned, this is the second public hearing.
05:09:54 The first public hearing was held two weeks ago.
05:10:05 And I'm going to answer several questions for you this
05:10:08 evening, and these are questions that I've heard from
05:10:11 several of you individually throughout the course of
05:10:13 the last two weeks.
05:10:15 Of a budget of $728 million, why can't $3.4 million
05:10:20 easily be cut from this budget?
05:10:23 What does the -- what did the city do with the
05:10:25 $28.7 million increase in property taxes from last year
05:10:29 to this year?
05:10:30 Why are the reserves so important to the city's
05:10:33 financial health?
05:10:34 Why is it important for the proposed cuts to be on the
05:10:37 ongoing nature as opposed to a one-time quick fix?
05:10:41 And what is the process the city went through in
05:10:43 determining which cuts the administration proposed to
05:10:47 I will speak and then the various administrators will
05:10:52 speak in detail about their various cuts.
05:10:54 And then Council will have opportunity to ask us
05:10:57 detailed questions about those presentations.
05:10:59 So we're hopeful that we will be able to provide all
05:11:02 the information to you in order to make a sound
05:11:06 We got here tonight through a very long process, as you
05:11:10 We started this budget in the spring.
05:11:12 We've had many, many meetings, as you know.
05:11:15 I put several of these up on the screen for you.
05:11:18 We had an update in May that we review the six-month
05:11:23 status of the city.
05:11:23 We had four budget workshops throughout the summer.
05:11:26 We had the budget presentation on August 3rd, our
05:11:29 first public hearing September 14th, and
05:11:32 September 28th.
05:11:33 So I appreciate you -- we're spending the time,
05:11:37 investing the time in going through the budget with me,
05:11:39 with our staff, the directors, the administration.
05:11:45 This is the 728 million-dollar budget.
05:11:48 I know you've seen these charts before, and if you
05:11:51 could just go through it with me again.
05:11:53 I really want everybody to understand the nature of our
05:11:57 entire budget.
05:11:59 $728 million tax operating, 422 million, enterprise
05:12:04 funds, solid waste -- solid waste, wastewater, water,
05:12:09 enterprise, those are our enterprise funds.
05:12:11 We have bond funds of $28 million and other various
05:12:15 transfers and internal service funds of 29 million.
05:12:18 So when we talk about this entire budget, you can see
05:12:20 there that only a portion of it is tax operating.
05:12:26 And this is how that tax operating fund breaks down.
05:12:30 We have other taxes and revenues of 20%, the 86
05:12:35 You can see there that our property tax portion of that
05:12:38 is 168 million, just 40% of the tax operating funds.
05:12:44 We have fees and charges, sales taxes, communication
05:12:47 services, electric franchise, et cetera.
05:12:52 So I really wanted people to understand what portion of
05:12:54 the budget these cuts impact.
05:12:57 And it's not only the entire tax operating funds, which
05:13:02 I'm going to go through with you, where do we spend our
05:13:05 tax operating funds?
05:13:07 Which departments are we talking about here tonight?
05:13:09 You can see there that about half of our tax operating
05:13:12 funds go toward public safety.
05:13:14 Parks and recreation, other cultural affairs, 14%,
05:13:19 which is $58 million.
05:13:21 Our CIP program, CIT and vehicles, 49 million.
05:13:27 We have debt service, our public works, 43 million and
05:13:31 central government at $50 million including all the
05:13:34 departments that you're going to hear me talk about
05:13:35 later again today including human resources,
05:13:41 neighborhood relations, legal, purchasing, and the
05:13:44 We're going to have a slide specific for that purpose.
05:13:48 Not all of our tax operating funds are funded in the
05:13:51 general fund.
05:13:53 Some of those such as cable, for example, has its own
05:13:56 revenue source.
05:13:56 And so we have to take apart those that are not related
05:13:59 to the tax operating, transportation impact fees and of
05:14:05 that nature.
05:14:05 We are left with $356 million that is impacted by this
05:14:10 So I just wanted to make it very clear how we went from
05:14:14 $728 million to 356 million that's impacted by this
05:14:21 You can see there that police and fire are half of that
05:14:25 particular budget.
05:14:27 We have various reserves and contingencies, seven and a
05:14:30 half million.
05:14:31 We have certain restricted funds that are in our
05:14:33 nondepartmental transfers such as the payment we have
05:14:37 to make to the Sports Authority, increased for our next
05:14:42 union contract.
05:14:43 That's all in that nondepartmental.
05:14:45 We also have in that restricted area, our contribution
05:14:49 to our CRAs, our tax increment financing transfer.
05:14:52 We have mandatory contribution for the general
05:14:56 employees pension, and then we're left with about
05:14:58 $132 million in which to address this $3.4 million.
05:15:08 You've asked me, where did the $28.7 million go?
05:15:15 The increase in property taxes from last year to this
05:15:18 And you can see here that $13.7 million of that went to
05:15:24 Which personnel you would ask?
05:15:27 3 million of that is for police.
05:15:29 2.7 million for fire.
05:15:32 Parks and rec, 2.6 million.
05:15:35 Public works, 1.4 million.
05:15:37 And the remaining departments of 4 million.
05:15:40 That is to keep our existing employees plus the ones we
05:15:45 know that we're adding such as the seven firefighters,
05:15:48 the nine rescue personnel, plus their benefits, just
05:15:53 bringing them from last year to this year.
05:15:57 So I want to make that clear, this is just what it
05:16:00 takes to get us from one year to the next.
05:16:03 And then we, as you know, added five million dollars to
05:16:07 our emergency fund.
05:16:09 And as we discussed before, the increase to our tax
05:16:13 increment, to our CRAs, that amount of property tax
05:16:16 increased from last year to this year, an additional
05:16:19 $4.5 million.
05:16:22 And then we had some various others.
05:16:24 We have budget for elections, an increase for the
05:16:27 Sports Authority, and we did institute the veterans
05:16:30 program for millage reduction for tax rebate.
05:16:34 So that is where it went.
05:16:37 I'm sorry, I left out the operating.
05:16:41 $4.7 million is to operate those departments.
05:16:46 1.6 million of the 4.7 is for police.
05:16:52 300,000 for fire, almost a million for parks and rec
05:16:56 and clean city.
05:16:58 Public works, 700,000.
05:17:00 And the remaining departments 1.2 million.
05:17:03 So you can see there that our city's emphasis on public
05:17:07 safety is emphasized in how we are spending our taxes.
05:17:15 Those departments are required to use their operating
05:17:17 monies for things like electric increases.
05:17:21 You've heard me talk over and over again about the
05:17:24 increase in fuel and the property insurance.
05:17:28 That's where these departments are having to spend
05:17:30 their money.
05:17:34 This is a graph you've seen before, I know.
05:17:36 And I want to go over it again because we talk about
05:17:40 the personnel of this city.
05:17:42 This organization that we have here has over 5,000
05:17:46 As you can see, almost 1400 of them are in the
05:17:50 enterprise funds and 3,676 are in the general fund.
05:17:56 Our biggest department, police, 1369 people.
05:18:02 Of those, 1,004 are sworn officers, 365 are civilian.
05:18:07 The next largest department is parks and recreation,
05:18:11 700 people.
05:18:13 Fire rescue, 651.
05:18:16 589 sworn.
05:18:18 72 civilians.
05:18:20 Public works, 289.
05:18:23 And then it goes from there.
05:18:24 So I really wanted you to see that we have a large
05:18:27 staff, we know, with an emphasis once again in the
05:18:31 public safety area.
05:18:37 At your last public hearing, you gave us direction.
05:18:39 And the direction was to reduce the millage rate from
05:18:43 6.539 mills to 6.408, a reduction of .131 mills.
05:18:51 And this amounted to $3,352,846.
05:18:54 And this is an ongoing millage rate -- an ongoing
05:18:58 reduction for our city.
05:19:00 So when we looked at the cuts and we analyzed what
05:19:03 needed to be done, we said how can we make this budget
05:19:08 as we're here today and the budget is moving forward,
05:19:12 how can these cuts be meaningful, real and permanent so
05:19:15 that when we budget in future years, we have considered
05:19:21 all aspects of these cuts.
05:19:24 So we just can't solve this problem with a one-time
05:19:27 It has to be the elimination of certain positions.
05:19:31 We really have to make sure that we have made
05:19:34 meaningful cuts on an ongoing basis.
05:19:37 And I will tell you that the cuts that we have proposed
05:19:39 are, frankly, a combination of both one time and
05:19:43 permanent cuts.
05:19:47 These are the departments I talked about.
05:19:48 These are the departments that we had to look to and
05:19:51 say look at your budget, of course, they had already
05:19:56 spent a significant amount of time determining the
05:19:59 original budget, but look at your budget again, what
05:20:02 can you do, how can you minimize the impact to our
05:20:06 citizens, but keeping in mind that $3.4 million needed
05:20:11 to come from these departments.
05:20:13 And you can see there that police and fire are not on
05:20:16 the list because we have determined that those
05:20:19 departments needed to be protected.
05:20:23 The largest budget in this group is the parks and rec
05:20:26 budget of almost $39 million.
05:20:29 Public works budget is next of $30 million.
05:20:35 We've talked a lot about the reserves of the city, and
05:20:38 I wanted to go through this again for you.
05:20:41 It is my professional opinion that the City of Tampa
05:20:44 does not have reserves at a nature where I would see
05:20:49 for a city of our size.
05:20:51 Many of you know prior to my joining the city I was an
05:20:54 investment banker for 16 years.
05:20:55 And this is based on my experience with the rating
05:20:57 agencies, the bond insurers in obtaining various credit
05:21:02 worthiness -- analyzing the credit worthiness of the
05:21:07 area cities.
05:21:08 So we have determined that we needed to make a
05:21:10 conscious effort to look at our reserves.
05:21:13 Of course, we know what has happened in the State of
05:21:15 Florida over the past two years, which has certainly
05:21:19 exacerbated our issues.
05:21:23 And this is something as we've talked about before that
05:21:25 all governments in Florida are struggling with, what is
05:21:28 the right number?
05:21:30 We have a goal, and the goal is to have 5% of our
05:21:34 general fund department budget.
05:21:36 That's approximately 15 million.
05:21:38 We recognize we can't get there all at once.
05:21:41 It has to take some time.
05:21:43 Last year, we put in three million.
05:21:45 This year, we were proposing to increase it to 8
05:21:49 million by adding the five million dollars.
05:21:51 It is going to take us some time to get to the 15
05:21:54 million, but in my opinion, we need to make a step.
05:22:04 And here we have some recurring reserves and the
05:22:06 emergency reserves.
05:22:07 That's another question that you have asked me over the
05:22:09 past week, what makes up our recurring reserves.
05:22:12 It's the contingency number that you see in your
05:22:14 budget, $2.8 million.
05:22:16 It's the revenue reserves of 3.5 million and the
05:22:19 transfer to fund balance, 2 million, total of 8.3.
05:22:23 What is that for?
05:22:24 It comes up every year.
05:22:27 Fuel last year, $2 million over budget.
05:22:31 That happens.
05:22:32 It's real.
05:22:33 Electric shortfalls.
05:22:35 And then in the event of any -- we estimate revenues.
05:22:42 We estimate sales tax.
05:22:43 We estimate state sharing revenues.
05:22:44 If any of those revenues fall below budget, this is
05:22:47 where that comes from.
05:22:48 In addition, as you know, the -- from time to time and
05:22:51 it's been happening much more regularly, there are bids
05:22:54 that come in above what we have budgeted.
05:22:57 This is where that comes from.
05:23:00 So this is something that we -- I feel that we need to
05:23:06 The emergency reserve separate, the $8 million.
05:23:09 As I mentioned, 3 million plus 5 million that we're
05:23:14 We have had extraordinary hurricane expenses two years
05:23:18 ago that we did not even really get hit by a storm.
05:23:22 $12 million in debris clearing.
05:23:24 We cannot wait for F.E.M.A. to come up with these
05:23:27 We can't wait for the state to provide these monies.
05:23:30 And we have lost interest earnings as we're providing
05:23:33 those monies.
05:23:34 It is very important.
05:23:40 This is a chart that shows the city's contribution to
05:23:43 the various CRAs over time.
05:23:48 And this is just the city's contribution.
05:23:48 And as you know, the CRA budgets had to be pulled from
05:23:52 the agenda because of the changes that were happening
05:23:54 here and also in the other jurisdictions.
05:23:57 So we had proposed that there was going to be a
05:24:02 contribution of $12.5 million.
05:24:04 And that's just a calculation of the assessed value in
05:24:08 those particular areas, and you multiply it by the
05:24:11 millage rate, the difference, the tax increment
05:24:14 I wanted you to be able to see what the change in
05:24:17 millage, how that impacts the CRAs.
05:24:21 So it's not only what it does to our various
05:24:24 departments, what it does to the CRAs.
05:24:26 So it's about $251,000 difference.
05:24:32 And I wanted to share with you, we've had some
05:24:34 discussions, I know I've had some inquiries over the
05:24:37 past few weeks, what about the agencies that we provide
05:24:41 special funding to.
05:24:44 We have wonderful nonprofit organizations in our
05:24:48 community that we are all very proud of.
05:24:50 And I wanted you to see, and I did send to you all by
05:24:53 e-mail a history on those nonprofits.
05:24:55 And I do have copies of those available if you need it
05:24:58 as well.
05:24:58 But I wanted you to see, I have listed there for you
05:25:03 our three largest nonprofits and then I have grouped
05:25:07 the others as well.
05:25:08 What we have proposed originally for a contribution to
05:25:10 our nonprofit, the amount that we're proposing to be
05:25:13 reduced and what they will then receive post the
05:25:20 And then I wanted you to see the annual debt service
05:25:23 that we spend as a city for each of those top three
05:25:28 The money that we spend in debt service is money that
05:25:30 we could have used for other things within our city,
05:25:33 but it has been determined that threes are good
05:25:36 organizations that we want to support.
05:25:38 But I want you to see that together with the operating
05:25:42 amount that we provide to these organizations plus the
05:25:44 debt service is over $16 million.
05:25:48 And I wanted really to put this in perspective for you.
05:25:52 So, yes, we had proposed a small reduction for outside
05:25:55 agencies, but we're still providing over $3.7 million
05:25:59 to those organizations.
05:26:02 With that, I am going to turn it over to Steve
05:26:06 Daignault who will go through specifically his areas
05:26:09 and then I'll give a wrap-up in the end.
05:26:13 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Just a quick question, Bonnie.
05:26:15 In looking at the reductions to the nonprofits, did you
05:26:19 cut the exact same percentage across the board for each
05:26:24 one of them?
05:26:27 >> We did 5%.
05:26:28 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Because it looks to me reviewing the
05:26:33 sheet, some got cut and some did not get cut.
05:26:37 >> If we had a commitment such as -- I'll huge stage
05:26:40 works as an example, the city had made a two-year
05:26:44 commitment to stage works just two years.
05:26:46 And last year we made a two-year commitment.
05:26:49 They did not get cut.
05:26:51 The plan is that they won't be in the budget next year.
05:26:53 So if there was a requirement that we stick with a
05:26:57 two-year, then they were not cut.
05:26:59 But on the most part, I would say that everyone got a
05:27:04 There was another exception and that was the aquarium.
05:27:07 You may have noticed that the aquarium did not get cut
05:27:10 for a few reasons.
05:27:11 One is because we are obligated as a city to fund their
05:27:16 deficits in their operating fund, and that was
05:27:18 $675,000 that was proposed.
05:27:21 You will notice from the schedule I sent you, last
05:27:24 year, they received 750,000.
05:27:27 So they had already requested a 10% reduction, and,
05:27:33 therefore, because of those two reasons, they did not
05:27:35 get cut.
05:27:36 So that may have been one of the ones you noticed as
05:27:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
05:27:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Bonnie, on page five under the
05:27:46 millage rate, you gave a brief explanation and you said
05:27:50 they must be permanent cuts to be meaningful cuts.
05:27:54 But then you went on and you said but as you'll see,
05:27:58 what we've proposed is a combination of one time and
05:28:02 permanent cuts.
05:28:04 So it sounded like --
05:28:09 >> Well, I have to admit that we did attempt to make
05:28:12 the cuts all of the permanent nature.
05:28:16 But, for example, the one thing that we do have in
05:28:19 there is the police and fire pension amount of
05:28:22 $1.2 million which is an amount in excess of that which
05:28:26 we budgeted.
05:28:27 That is not a permanent cut.
05:28:31 We are required next year to fund that at whatever
05:28:33 level is required.
05:28:35 So we did have the ability to have that $1.2 million,
05:28:39 but that is $1.2 million that we are going to have to
05:28:42 figure out when we budget for next year.
05:28:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You said it in the plural, so I
05:28:47 assume there are some other -- so there are some other
05:28:49 cuts that are also one-time.
05:28:52 >> Well, that was the most material, so I definitely
05:28:54 wanted to bring that one to your attention.
05:28:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We commend you on finding that one.
05:28:58 That was a good one.
05:29:00 Thank you.
05:29:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Daignault.
05:29:03 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Thank you, council.
05:29:05 Steve Daignault, administrator of public works and
05:29:10 utilities services.
05:29:11 Let's see if we can get this presentation going.
05:29:15 There we go.
05:29:22 As you see from the slide, the amount that they were
05:29:22 looking for from our departments, my departments, is
05:29:31 I want to explain that a little bit since I have six
05:29:34 departments working for me, and you can see them up
05:29:37 The Water Department, the wastewater department and the
05:29:39 solid waste department, you can -- you'll notice the
05:29:42 Es there are enterprise funds.
05:29:45 I know you Council members understand what enterprise
05:29:47 funds are.
05:29:48 For the benefit of those folks who may be watching at
05:29:51 home, the enterprise funds are funds that are
05:29:54 Those departments are funded exclusively by their rates
05:29:59 and fees and other charges.
05:30:00 So there is no ad valorem dollars, there are no tax
05:30:04 dollars in those departments' budgets.
05:30:08 Which narrows my range of reductions do unto
05:30:11 stormwater, contract, admin and public works.
05:30:13 And below there, you see again their respective budget
05:30:16 amounts, the amount of 65 million under parks -- excuse
05:30:19 me, under public works is for public works and contract
05:30:23 admin since contract admin was in public works and
05:30:26 we've separated them, the budget still shows it that
05:30:30 Again, focusing on those three departments, again,
05:30:33 looking for reductions in stormwater, as you know, it's
05:30:36 a new department.
05:30:38 Three and a half years ago, we didn't have a stormwater
05:30:41 We now have a stormwater department.
05:30:43 We have a stormwater utility fee.
05:30:46 We have a five-year plan.
05:30:48 And we are making significant progress on a lot of the
05:30:51 flooding projects that we have ignored and that have
05:30:54 been out there for years and years.
05:30:56 Nevertheless, within that $18.8 million, Which is the
05:31:00 entire budget for the stormwater department, the ad
05:31:02 valorem amount is only 2.9 million.
05:31:05 Again, I suggest to you since we've just last year
05:31:08 increased that fee to try to get more money in that
05:31:10 department, that that would not be a place that we
05:31:13 would want to take any reductions.
05:31:15 The contract admin department is a department that we
05:31:18 stood up last year, again, based on all of the new
05:31:22 projects and the significant number of projects that we
05:31:23 had coming down the pike.
05:31:25 When we set that department up, we identified all the
05:31:28 needed positions, but we did not fund them.
05:31:32 We said we would try to get those people in those
05:31:34 positions over time.
05:31:36 Last year, there were a couple of positions in the
05:31:38 budget for contract admin.
05:31:40 Again, there were a couple this year for contract
05:31:44 I'm sure I don't need to run down this list to you, but
05:31:46 there are significant projects.
05:31:49 Finishing -- ongoing right now, we have the finishing
05:31:52 of all the parks and rec facilities, 40th street
05:31:54 segment B, the largest segment, Cross Creek, Tampa
05:31:58 Police Department district three, Manhattan, Paxton,
05:32:03 which is a stormwater project, Neptune box culvert
05:32:06 which is, again, a stormwater project.
05:32:07 We're getting ready to start the 15th Street in Ybor
05:32:11 stormwater project.
05:32:12 We have the Riverwalk, the Platt Street section of
05:32:16 We have other utility projects going on.
05:32:19 We have the New Tampa recreation center that's not too
05:32:22 far away.
05:32:23 Planned in the pipeline, we have the -- pipe that I
05:32:29 think you all realize the significance of that for our
05:32:31 We have four miles of 48-inch wastewater force main
05:32:34 that needs to be replaced that goes under the river.
05:32:36 Again, significant object and it's one that has broken
05:32:39 twice on us in the last two years.
05:32:40 Once at Sligh Avenue and once at 12th and Norfolk.
05:32:44 Cross Creek phase two is in the pipeline.
05:32:47 The bridge over 275.
05:32:48 The 400 North Ashley garage repairs.
05:32:51 CRA infrastructure, new CIT is coming in with new parks
05:32:57 and rec projects.
05:32:58 South of Gandy study demonstrates the need for more
05:33:02 40th street segments A and C yet to go, star
05:33:06 getting -- going again.
05:33:09 Again, utility replacement projects and the list goes
05:33:12 So, again, my suggestion is that we don't want to take
05:33:16 any of those monies from the contract admin department,
05:33:21 which leads to public works.
05:33:23 Again, as you see on this slide, the public works
05:33:27 contract admin, the DPW and CA, that's what that stands
05:33:31 for 34.3 million, within public works, we have the
05:33:35 electric department and electric division, electronics
05:33:39 division which deals with all the communications for
05:33:40 police, fire, public works, all the other folks that
05:33:43 have communications.
05:33:44 1.3 million.
05:33:46 Fleet and maintenance, again, support for the police
05:33:48 Support for solid waste, and everybody that has
05:33:51 vehicles in the city, 12.4 million.
05:33:53 And then parking, which is, again, another enterprise
05:33:56 fund, self-sufficient of 17 million.
05:34:00 Again, I'm narrowed down to the $34.3 million is where
05:34:03 we have to look.
05:34:04 The amount that we have been able to find comes from
05:34:08 these three locations all in DPW, one is in
05:34:11 transportation that has to do with the studies that are
05:34:13 involved with the comp plan update, the TCEA and the
05:34:18 ear part.
05:34:18 The second one is for special events, and I'll cover
05:34:21 this in more detail and then facilities maintenance.
05:34:25 Specifically, for the TCEA and the E.A.R. for the comp
05:34:29 plan update, we had monies in there as we were reducing
05:34:34 those monies by $50,000 to 150,000.
05:34:36 And we believe we can still get that done.
05:34:40 The second item is a reduction of $50,000, which is
05:34:44 used for special events.
05:34:46 It is the variable message boards, the rental of the
05:34:49 variable message boards that's used for special events
05:34:53 that direct traffic to parking garages and parking
05:34:56 And then the last item is a while back, a couple of
05:35:00 years ago, we set up a small crew to do roofing repairs
05:35:07 and small roofing replacement jobs in house.
05:35:10 We thought we could save some money that way.
05:35:12 Those positions are vacant.
05:35:16 Currently, we are essentially we would do away with the
05:35:19 in-house roofing program by doing this, and that
05:35:22 reduces the budget $93,338.
05:35:29 What I would like to just take a moment to say to you,
05:35:31 as you know, there is no shortage of demand on our
05:35:34 Our water system, our road systems, all of our systems
05:35:40 are being taxed with the growth and with the people
05:35:42 that we have in the City of Tampa.
05:35:44 And we are currently working to get a lot of the
05:35:47 projects that have not been done for years done.
05:35:49 The pace is very fast.
05:35:51 The number and the significance of those projects
05:35:53 compared to other cities of our size is considerable.
05:35:57 Many of these projects have languished in the past.
05:35:59 Again, I point out 40th street, the Manhattan project
05:36:03 and the stormwater projects.
05:36:04 But we're getting them done.
05:36:05 We are getting these projects completed.
05:36:07 They are huge.
05:36:08 They are disruptive.
05:36:09 They are not fun, but they are necessary, and we're
05:36:12 making those things come to fruition.
05:36:15 These things don't just happen by themselves either.
05:36:18 These projects take a lot of care and feeding.
05:36:22 They take planning.
05:36:23 They take permits.
05:36:24 They take real estate.
05:36:25 They take right-of-way, and property.
05:36:27 They take design.
05:36:28 They take contract administration.
05:36:30 They take legal support.
05:36:31 They take financing.
05:36:33 All of those things are done by people, people in the
05:36:36 city, and those folks are making these things happen
05:36:40 We would ask that you don't want to detract from the
05:36:43 organizations that we've put together to make these
05:36:45 things happen because it's way too important for the
05:36:47 city's future.
05:36:48 Thank you very much.
05:36:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Dingfelder.
05:36:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
05:36:52 Thank you, Mr. Daignault.
05:36:54 I know more than anybody how hard you work and how hard
05:36:58 your people in public works work being chair of Public
05:37:02 Works Committee.
05:37:03 And you and I worked together well on all these issues.
05:37:06 The only question I have on the proposed reductions in
05:37:09 your area is the $50,000 -- I'm on page 10 in the
05:37:13 handout, the $50,000 for the TCEA ear I guess it was
05:37:20 study money, contract money.
05:37:22 And we had a long transportation concurrency exception
05:37:25 area report the other day, and we also discussed impact
05:37:29 And I think that we all came out of that or many of us
05:37:34 came out of that realizing a couple of things.
05:37:36 One that it might be really good, prudent planning for
05:37:41 this city to start retracting or contracting on the
05:37:45 And the only way we could really do that is if we study
05:37:48 And number two, I think we also realize that we need to
05:37:53 increase or at least review our impact fees,
05:37:57 transportation impact fees for the potential of
05:37:59 increasing them.
05:38:00 And that's a money-maker for the city because once we
05:38:04 can increase our impact fees and I think we heard from
05:38:07 the consultant the other day that we're about
05:38:10 two-thirds lower than the rest of the state on
05:38:13 transportation impact fees, if we can increase that
05:38:15 level up to, you know, double it or triple it back to
05:38:18 being where the state is, we can make money for the
05:38:21 So if we have that $50,000 and if it's earmarked for
05:38:25 TCEA, I think, actually, I think we should either use
05:38:29 it for TCEA or use it for impact fees, for an impact
05:38:33 fee study.
05:38:33 Because we were told that we can only study two of the
05:38:36 impact fee areas with the money we have budgeted.
05:38:38 I think we should do more than that.
05:38:41 I think we should, you know, study as many areas as
05:38:44 I was told that South Tampa, the Interbay peninsula was
05:38:48 not even one of the areas on the table for this coming
05:38:51 year for impact fee studies.
05:38:52 And I think a lot of people in South Tampa -- well,
05:38:54 that's what I was told -- a lot of people in South
05:38:56 Tampa would have a problem with that because some of
05:38:58 the most growth that we've seen in the city is in South
05:39:01 Tampa and the Interbay peninsula.
05:39:03 So I'm -- you know, you can answer it and then we
05:39:06 can -- I'm just going to make some notes as we go, but
05:39:09 I think that $50,000 is something that the Council
05:39:11 needs to talk about in terms of using it for impact
05:39:15 >> Understand.
05:39:15 We do have around $100,000 in the budget separate from
05:39:19 the monies that we talked about up here for impact fee
05:39:24 And it is our plan to do the New Tampa area and the
05:39:28 Interbay peninsula, which is everything South of
05:39:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We were told the other day it was
05:39:35 the New Tampa area and the Westshore district, not the
05:39:38 Interbay district.
05:39:44 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Steve, maybe I'm just a little too
05:39:46 Why do we have to spend money to do an impact fee
05:39:50 Tell me how complicated that is.
05:39:54 Is it not just we pick up the phone and call about 20
05:39:55 other jurisdictions and say, what are your impact fees?
05:39:59 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: No, sir.
05:40:00 Certainly a little more complicated than that.
05:40:01 Your impact fee -- your impact fee has to be based on
05:40:05 the needs, a smaller city would have one impact fee for
05:40:08 the entire city, but our city is broken into seven
05:40:13 zones, as you know.
05:40:15 The zones -- to establish your impact fee, you have to
05:40:18 show what the need is, and so you have to have a plan,
05:40:22 and it has to be priced out.
05:40:25 So, for example, and probably one of the best things
05:40:28 that we've done is that South of Gandy study, is that
05:40:31 it established those projects.
05:40:32 So in that South of Gandy or excuse me, South of
05:40:36 Kennedy, which is the Interbay zone, you look at all of
05:40:39 the needs.
05:40:40 You identify the cost of the needs, you look at what
05:40:43 growth you expect to have, and then that extrapolates
05:40:46 into what the impact fee for that area is.
05:40:49 You can't collect impact fees beyond what the cost of
05:40:54 the improvements that you could make in that area are.
05:40:57 And you have to have a plan for them, or they are
05:40:59 challenged and you lose.
05:41:01 >> So we have a hundred thousand already budgeted this
05:41:03 year for the two study areas that we're going to be
05:41:05 looking at?
05:41:06 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: That's correct.
05:41:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Also a discussion about
05:41:16 consolidating all the impact fees for the whole city
05:41:19 into one big area like you mentioned as opposed to
05:41:21 doing multiple areas.
05:41:22 We don't have to discuss it tonight, maybe that's
05:41:24 another way we can save money on the study in terms of
05:41:29 just in terms of, you know -- I understand in the past,
05:41:32 you know, different parts of the city were growing at
05:41:34 different rates and had different needs.
05:41:36 We've sort of gotten past that point.
05:41:38 The entire city is just growing.
05:41:40 And so we might want to look at consolidating that.
05:41:47 And then some exemption areas, because there will need
05:41:49 to be some exemption areas.
05:41:50 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Thank you.
05:41:51 I think I'll be followed by Darrell Smith.
05:41:58 >> Good evening, Council members, Darrell Smith, Chief
05:42:00 of Staff.
05:42:01 I'd like to take this opportunity to address the budget
05:42:04 reductions that we determined for the organizations
05:42:07 that fall within my area.
05:42:13 And the Powerpoint presentation there, you see the
05:42:19 overall budget reductions in the Commander-in-Chief of
05:42:22 staff area amount to $213,000, and the information
05:42:29 technology area, specifically the technology and
05:42:33 innovation department were the brunt of most of the
05:42:38 reductions based on the size of their budget to start
05:42:42 And I'd like to say a few words about the importance of
05:42:46 information and technology.
05:42:48 The acquisition of information and technology resources
05:42:51 to include hardware, software, and professionals,
05:42:57 people to run the information and technology resources
05:43:01 is really key to this city's future as far as being
05:43:05 able to accomplish increased delivery of services,
05:43:11 increase our efficiency, provide better service and
05:43:15 more efficient service to our citizens.
05:43:20 We need to continue to acknowledge the importance of
05:43:23 information technology, and we need to also realize
05:43:26 that in the past, that has not been done as far as an
05:43:31 emphasis on providing funding for information and
05:43:37 Information and technology is not an enterprise fund.
05:43:40 It competes for funding out of the general fund, and it
05:43:44 competes with public safety, competes with parks and
05:43:48 recreation and public works projects.
05:43:55 I think you agree what information and technology
05:43:57 brings to the table is just as important as all of
05:43:59 those other departments, and we need to continue to
05:44:01 emphasize expansion of our I.T. budget whenever we can.
05:44:10 The fact that we have a limited I.T. budget based on
05:44:13 the fact that our track record is not good in this area
05:44:15 is a concern that we have for now and for the future.
05:44:21 In the area of training, we are reducing that budget by
05:44:24 $25,000, and that's going to require more in-house
05:44:29 self-study on the part of our employees.
05:44:32 It's going to result in an overall decrease in the
05:44:37 employees technical abilities to no fault of their own,
05:44:41 quite frankly.
05:44:41 But if we don't take advantage of leading edge training
05:44:44 opportunities that are out there, our employees are not
05:44:47 going to be able to be as up to speed as we would like
05:44:52 them to be and as they would like to be.
05:44:55 And that's going to obviously impact the professional
05:44:59 development opportunities for the employment -- for the
05:45:03 employees and their overall capabilities.
05:45:08 In the area of contractual services, we are reducing
05:45:10 that by $75,000, and basically, that involves the
05:45:15 contractual manpower to prep and field new computers.
05:45:22 Contract to approach that work and that allows us to
05:45:25 use our regularly assigned employees for other jobs
05:45:28 that require more continuity and more expertise.
05:45:32 In the future, as a result of this reduction,
05:45:36 technology and innovation will be accomplishing this
05:45:38 work in-house, and that will decrease the opportunity
05:45:42 for our technology, innovation employees to accomplish
05:45:47 their other technical support tasks.
05:45:49 In the area of repair and maintenance, we will be
05:45:53 reducing that by $77,000, and that will be accomplished
05:45:59 by reducing the maintenance for unplanned purchase of
05:46:03 hardware and software.
05:46:05 Other city departments will have to fund technology and
05:46:11 innovation needs if there are equipment repairs in
05:46:14 those various departments, and as a result of this
05:46:17 reduction, we will see instances where some repairs
05:46:20 will not be able to be accomplished because of the
05:46:22 budget reduction.
05:46:27 In the area of noncapital computers and software, we're
05:46:31 reducing that by 15,000.
05:46:34 And this will reduce the funding for minor hardware and
05:46:37 software to support network installs throughout the
05:46:41 We will have to increase the life of our existing
05:46:44 equipment, keep it longer than we would have
05:46:47 anticipated under the proposed budget, and we will do
05:46:50 that by paying additional money, albeit not as much as
05:46:54 we would have been paying to replace it, but we will
05:46:57 pay additional money to extend the warranty and use old
05:47:02 equipment longer, basically, is what we'll have to deal
05:47:05 And as a result of that approach, we can expect
05:47:08 increased risk of equipment failures and the associated
05:47:12 downtime coming from that kind of an approach.
05:47:17 The other departments, like to address primarily the
05:47:20 budgets that we're reducing for travel.
05:47:23 In the administration department and specifically
05:47:25 intergovernment relations under administration, we're
05:47:28 reducing that budget, travel budget by $12,000.
05:47:33 That acknowledges the fact that we no longer are going
05:47:36 to have a lobbyist on staff.
05:47:41 So our lobbyist on staff as in the past will not be
05:47:44 responsible traveling to and from Tallahassee during
05:47:46 the legislative period.
05:47:48 And we estimate that we can reduce $12,000 from our
05:47:51 travel budget as a result of that.
05:47:53 Two other organizations have also decreased their
05:47:57 travel budgets, the H.R. department by 4,000 and the
05:48:01 purchasing department has reduced their travel budget
05:48:05 by 2500 and their office supply budget by 2500.
05:48:12 Just a comment about travel budget and what we are
05:48:17 doing there.
05:48:20 It is typically easy to look at travel budgets in an
05:48:23 organization, especially a municipal or government
05:48:26 organization and assume that travel budgets are
05:48:30 discretionary, that they are nice to have.
05:48:34 I would submit to you that this administration has
05:48:36 emphasized travel as a way of acquiring new knowledge,
05:48:42 new skills, and an emphasis on best practices so that
05:48:46 we increase the overall capability of our employees by
05:48:51 their participation in conferences and by their travel
05:48:55 to acquire training.
05:48:57 So with less training opportunities, less travel
05:49:01 opportunities, we will have less opportunity for our
05:49:04 employees to acquire those best practices that we have
05:49:07 been emphasizing throughout the time for this
05:49:12 And the employees will also have less of an opportunity
05:49:15 to engage in professional development activities.
05:49:20 That concludes my presentation.
05:49:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone else?
05:49:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you for all your hard work
05:49:30 over the last two weeks putting all this together.
05:49:33 I'm sure you put a lot of hours into it.
05:49:37 Just to clarify, the $12,000, I guess Janette fenton
05:49:41 used to go to Tallahassee and this was part of her
05:49:44 travel money.
05:49:44 But we cut out -- we decided long before our millage
05:49:48 cuts to eliminate the travel to Tallahassee.
05:49:51 I think we heard that earlier in the summer.
05:49:53 So this $12,000 really should never have even made it
05:49:57 to the budget that we saw two weeks ago, right?
05:50:01 >> That's correct.
05:50:01 But it was there, and we were aware of that.
05:50:03 And it's going to be used -- was going to be used for
05:50:06 funding the contract substitute for Janette fenton once
05:50:10 we negotiate with an appropriate vendor or appropriate
05:50:15 company to provide that support.
05:50:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The other question I had was, it
05:50:19 appears looking at page nine in the budget supplement
05:50:23 book that -- let's see, I found travel, page nine,
05:50:30 about the middle of the page, it says travel and per
05:50:32 diem, it appears that the travel budget for the
05:50:37 administration -- I guess which would have been
05:50:40 personnel -- personal services, I guess that's H.R.
05:50:45 department had been cut significantly from '05 to '06
05:50:49 long before we ever got hold of it.
05:50:50 Looks like it was cut from 17,000 and then '06, it
05:50:54 showed 10,000.
05:50:55 And then '07, it looks like an increase up to 31,000.
05:51:04 >> The initial cut in '05 recognizes our budget
05:51:09 department withdrawing money out of the travel budget
05:51:12 in order to fund the lobbyist, the contract lobbyist
05:51:16 that we did use last session.
05:51:18 So it went from travel into contractual services,
05:51:22 professional services for the lobbyist that we used
05:51:26 last legislative period.
05:51:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But then it looks like it bumped up
05:51:30 to 31,000 as the '07 recommended budget from two weeks
05:51:35 Bonnie, am I looking at the right line?
05:51:42 Anyway, I guess I'm trying to figure out how much this
05:51:45 $2500 cut represented because it looks like there was a
05:51:48 big bump from last year to this year.
05:51:50 You all can look at it and get back with me.
05:51:52 >> The 12,000 represented a 61% cut within the
05:51:57 intergovernment relations department.
05:51:59 We still owe you the explanation on the 31,000 that
05:52:02 you're referring to for '07.
05:52:04 Thank you.
05:52:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: These are the kind of questions that
05:52:13 I wanted to ask this afternoon, by the way, just so
05:52:16 Council knows.
05:52:21 >> Good evening.
05:52:21 Cindy Miller, director of growth management and
05:52:24 development services.
05:52:25 Powerpoint, please.
05:52:33 What I would like to first outline for you is what is
05:52:37 not included in the proposed budget reduction of
05:52:49 The community planning, Land Development coordination
05:52:52 and urban design divisions, which I know you are all
05:52:55 very familiar with because of the work that they do
05:52:57 here week in and week out when it comes to rezonings
05:53:01 and other PD developments.
05:53:03 I did not believe that when it came to those particular
05:53:05 divisions that it was prudent to look at a reduction in
05:53:09 their level of service or the quality.
05:53:11 So, therefore, this dollar amount does not include
05:53:13 their work.
05:53:14 When it comes to construction services, which I believe
05:53:17 is part of our development services, part of our
05:53:19 department title, they have a customer service response
05:53:23 time that they have to make sure that there is quality
05:53:25 and safe construction throughout our community.
05:53:28 So, therefore, I again did not believe that that was
05:53:31 warranted at this time.
05:53:33 We will, of course, in all of our divisions continue to
05:53:35 look at efficiencies and improvements whether that's
05:53:38 the divisions we've looked at or whether it's our
05:53:40 historic preservation divisions, ARC, BLC.
05:53:45 And then when it comes to our housing and community
05:53:47 development division, that division is funded through
05:53:49 community development block grants and other federal
05:53:52 So therefore they would not be included in the general
05:53:56 fund in the ad valorem funding.
05:53:58 The one area that we did identify in working with its
05:54:02 manager is that we could eliminate two positions in the
05:54:04 real estate office.
05:54:06 When it comes to the Real Estate Division in
05:54:09 consultation with Mr. Herb Fechter, who is their
05:54:13 manager who came to the city this year, we had
05:54:15 determined that there were two positions for employees
05:54:18 that have recently transferred, literally in the last
05:54:21 week or two to other divisions within our city.
05:54:24 So, therefore, we believe that by analyzing new
05:54:29 efficiencies in the Real Estate Division and with
05:54:31 cooperation among the other divisions of my department,
05:54:35 we would be able to absorb the work for at least one of
05:54:38 those positions.
05:54:39 When it comes to the second position, it will require
05:54:42 that we cancel an initiative to create an ombudsman
05:54:46 service program during fiscal year 2007.
05:54:50 The goal of the ombudsman service was to respond to
05:54:53 what I've heard from homeowners, business owners,
05:54:56 contractors, and various associations as to having that
05:55:00 extra assistance to work among our navigation for
05:55:05 zoning, permitting, historic review and other
05:55:07 department processes.
05:55:08 All of our folks within these division do see an
05:55:10 excellent job, but I think you can all appreciate us as
05:55:14 the public that having that extra bit of assistance and
05:55:17 a strong presence to be able to work among the
05:55:19 divisions would have been of service to our offices and
05:55:23 to the public.
05:55:24 So, therefore, when it comes to the ultimate budget
05:55:27 reduction of $142,298, this is where we believe that we
05:55:32 are able to show this efficiency through the Real
05:55:35 Estate Division, but will require the cancellation in
05:55:39 2007 of a proposed new service.
05:55:41 Thank you.
05:55:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
05:55:44 Ms. Miller, I know I can speak for all of Council and
05:55:49 thanking you, congratulating you on what a great job
05:55:52 you have done since you've come into this position.
05:55:54 And then since you got promoted, you just excel at
05:55:59 everything you do and we appreciate it.
05:56:00 And there's no "but."
05:56:03 The question I had is, in regard to the ombudsman, I
05:56:06 think it sounded like a great idea.
05:56:09 It's the first I really heard about it.
05:56:12 Although I think we've suggested ombudsmen in Shannon's
05:56:16 office in regard to helping citizens and neighborhoods,
05:56:21 you know, get through the system in term of
05:56:24 understanding what is going on in different projects
05:56:26 and things like that.
05:56:27 We've had that discussion.
05:56:28 But is it 50/50 the two positions -- you're showing
05:56:35 $142,000, is it $71,000 each, or were they
05:56:40 approximately the same level positions?
05:56:42 >> It was more of a 60/40 type of split where one
05:56:47 person was at a higher pay situation.
05:56:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Which one?
05:56:50 Just bottom line, what would the ombudsman be?
05:56:53 >> We had not yet established a specific salary which
05:56:56 would also then incorporate the benefit level.
05:56:59 But we were looking at probably a position around the
05:57:02 $50,000 level, similar to what a new planner would be.
05:57:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That includes benefits?
05:57:09 >> Oh, no, benefits would be on top of that, sir.
05:57:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Out of the 142, you think it would
05:57:15 have been -- I mean, is it out of the 142,000?
05:57:19 >> It's part of the 142,000.
05:57:22 It would be based upon one of the employees in there.
05:57:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
05:57:36 >> Mark Huey, good evening, economic development
05:57:44 I'm going to review for you $297,000 worth of budget
05:57:51 reduction in the economic development and urban
05:57:53 development arena.
05:57:55 As you are aware, our role is to recruit new
05:57:58 businesses, help existing businesses grow, foster
05:58:01 tourism and convention activity in our city and
05:58:06 importantly, redevelop areas of our city that Council
05:58:09 has designated as important strategic redevelopment
05:58:15 We have a total of $247,000 of departmental budget
05:58:19 reductions, and then in the nondepartmental budget,
05:58:24 there are economic development items and one is reduced
05:58:27 by $50,000.
05:58:28 Our approach to contemplating reductions was rather
05:58:33 We wanted to be least disruptive to the many activities
05:58:36 that are going on.
05:58:38 As you are aware, you're involved in redevelopment
05:58:41 activities across our city.
05:58:43 We have an unprecedented amount of investment occurring
05:58:47 in our downtown, the Channel District.
05:58:49 Exciting things happening in Ybor City, East Tampa.
05:58:52 We've forged the largest public/private partnership in
05:58:55 our city's history in the heights project, and we're
05:58:59 underway and forging a partnership with the housing
05:59:02 authority and thank of America presently in Central
05:59:06 So we wanted to be least disruptive to the many
05:59:10 important things that we're involved in.
05:59:12 The areas that we reduced came from four places,
05:59:16 economic development staffing, our convention center,
05:59:19 special events support, and I want to touch on
05:59:22 redevelopment as well.
05:59:25 Staffing, we have a vacant position in economic
05:59:28 development, and we are eliminating that position.
05:59:31 That is a position that's been involved in a variety of
05:59:35 economic development roles.
05:59:37 Most particularly as a liaison to MacDill Air Force
05:59:40 This was a position that one, among other things, about
05:59:44 $1.2 million in grants over the past few years to help
05:59:48 us buy land around MacDill Air Force Base to prevent
05:59:52 minimized encroachment.
05:59:54 This position was also very active in promoting and
05:59:58 administering our enterprise zone, which as you're
06:00:01 aware, provides a provide of incentives and tax credits
06:00:04 to businesses who want to grow in areas ranging from
06:00:07 West Tampa through our city up to the USF area.
06:00:14 The convention center, we are eliminating $125,000 from
06:00:18 their janitorial contract services.
06:00:20 The impact of that is that our very capable center
06:00:24 staff will be under the gun, under pressure to earn
06:00:28 additional revenues exceeding what they have reasonably
06:00:32 budgeted this year to ensure that our cleanliness
06:00:35 standards at the center are very high standards are
06:00:39 maintained thought the year.
06:00:42 Special event support, we are eliminating in the
06:00:46 nondepartmental budget or reducing by 50% new funds
06:00:50 that were set aside to reduce the negative impact of
06:00:53 special events on residents, workers, and visitors in
06:00:56 our downtown.
06:01:01 The police department, transportation department,
06:01:03 parking department, our special events department,
06:01:05 collectively have been working this year to anticipate
06:01:09 and deal with increasing events that we are bringing to
06:01:11 our downtown that we want to bring into our downtown
06:01:14 for economic development purposes and to help create
06:01:17 that 24/7 urban environment that we want.
06:01:25 Those increasing events can have negative impacts as we
06:01:27 have seen at certain times during this year for workers
06:01:29 in our downtown, for residents in our downtown and our
06:01:34 We are cutting back that commitment to provide support
06:01:41 for those event -- for transportation management and
06:01:44 extra duty law enforcement.
06:01:46 Lastly, I would like to comment on redevelopment.
06:01:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Could I make a comment on the
06:01:52 We're not doing the CRA budgets tonight.
06:01:54 I think just for the sake of speed, you know, clearly,
06:01:57 the CRA budgets are going to be cut, but we're going to
06:02:00 be dealing with that another day.
06:02:02 Unless Council has a particular desire to hear about
06:02:05 the CRAs.
06:02:06 There's nothing we can do about them tonight.
06:02:08 >> I agree.
06:02:08 My only point was just to acknowledge for you that
06:02:11 those redevelopment areas are, as Bonnie had alluded
06:02:16 to, about 251,000 will be reduced and there will be a
06:02:20 variety of impacts that as a result of that we've been
06:02:25 through months of a community process on each of those
06:02:29 And we'll reengage with the communities following our
06:02:33 budget meetings tonight.
06:02:34 And these are some of the anticipated impacts to those
06:02:38 cutbacks in East Tampa, downtown, Ybor, and the Channel
06:02:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
06:02:44 >> And that concludes my presentation on economic and
06:02:47 urban development reductions.
06:02:55 >> Good evening, Madam Chair, honorable Council
06:02:58 members, Santiago Corrada, Neighborhood Services
06:03:04 Administrator. Before I present the proposed budget
06:03:06 reductions that affect neighborhood services, I really
06:03:08 need to acknowledge and recognize the hard work of our
06:03:11 many department directors and division managers that
06:03:15 have very thoughtfully and carefully structured the
06:03:18 budget that was presented two weeks ago and have gone
06:03:20 about the same way with their reductions.
06:03:23 They really care about our city.
06:03:24 They are involved with our citizens, and many of the
06:03:28 above threshold requests were to address the needs
06:03:31 presented to them during the previous year during this
06:03:34 past year.
06:03:34 So after we moved from police and fire, the greatest
06:03:41 beneficiaries of our general fund revenue are our
06:03:43 neighborhood services areas.
06:03:44 If I could have the Powerpoint please.
06:03:49 We're being affected by approximately $545,767 in cuts.
06:03:55 Of course, it was mentioned earlier to you that behind
06:04:00 police department, our parks and rec department is the
06:04:02 second largest department in the city and thus has a
06:04:05 large budget and that is why proportionately you will
06:04:08 see that the neighborhood service departments are
06:04:11 affected by the proposed reduction in the millage and
06:04:14 our proposed reduction of budgets.
06:04:16 Under the neighborhood services budget, there are four
06:04:20 The administrator and this year, we were looking at
06:04:24 hiring an education consultant to help with the many
06:04:30 initiatives that we have spearheaded over the last two
06:04:32 years without staffing.
06:04:33 And as many of you know, some of you have attended some
06:04:37 of those events we're very supportive of our school
06:04:40 We launched a summer reading program, mentoring tutor
06:04:43 program, a Mayor's art challenge.
06:04:46 Just a number of programs that really support our
06:04:48 school system.
06:04:49 We have affected school grades.
06:04:51 We no longer have any "F" rated public schools in our
06:04:54 And those four elementary schools that we've adopted
06:04:57 and have worked with have increased their letter grades
06:05:00 over the last two years.
06:05:01 So there will be a reduction in that consultant's
06:05:06 In my office, I'll also reduce travel and professional
06:05:10 In the Arts and cultural affairs area, we will reduce
06:05:14 contractual services for individuals that help us with
06:05:18 art events, creative industry events, primarily in the
06:05:21 area of our Gasparilla Arts festival.
06:05:23 And you see those amounts there on the Powerpoint.
06:05:27 In the community fairs area, which is also housed under
06:05:30 the neighborhood services budget, we are presenting
06:05:33 proposal that eliminates our contribution to the City
06:05:36 of Tampa, Hillsborough County law enforcement community
06:05:39 relations workshop by $16,362.
06:05:45 Primarily that agency, that department really has not
06:05:48 much to cut, so they really have to look at the cutting
06:05:52 of programs, and that is the recommendation made by
06:05:54 that department.
06:05:55 And under neighborhood and community relations, they
06:05:58 will be cutting back on promotional items, T-shirts,
06:06:02 mugs, magnets, those kinds of things that they present
06:06:05 to the public as well as travel and professional
06:06:11 We also treat the Tampa museum of art and the Tampa
06:06:13 Theater really as city departments in collaboration
06:06:18 with those two entities.
06:06:20 They have agreed to cut back a total of $12,916.
06:06:24 You can see the breakout amounts there, 10,719 for the
06:06:27 museum of art.
06:06:28 $2,197 for the Tampa Theater.
06:06:32 And they are both going to reduce custodial maintenance
06:06:36 They are going to do a lot of those in-house and
06:06:40 decrease the purchase of small equipment and supplies.
06:06:45 Code enforcement went back and looked at historically
06:06:48 how much they have expended in the demolition of
06:06:51 structures, and they feel that based on their
06:06:54 historical data, they are able to cut $53,076, and that
06:06:59 would not affect the level of prior years of
06:07:03 So there's still money there for demolition of
06:07:05 structures; however, they feel they can afford this
06:07:08 reduction of $53,076.
06:07:11 Our clean city division, as you know, was a division we
06:07:15 stood up just last year, and they are responsible for
06:07:19 the maintenance of the contracts we have with the
06:07:23 interstate system, F.D.O.T., and there are sections of
06:07:26 the interstate that have not been completed, and thus
06:07:30 contracts have not been signed for the future
06:07:33 maintenance of those facilities.
06:07:35 And they are anticipating to reduce their contractual
06:07:39 obligations by $49,118.
06:07:42 And when those sections of the interstate come to
06:07:46 fruition, the levels of maintenance will be reduced by
06:07:48 that amount since these cuts are recurring cost cuts.
06:07:55 Now, parks and recreation will be cutting $402,044.
06:08:02 They will maintain the current legals of programming
06:08:05 for the summer reading program and the Arts reach
06:08:08 We have the summer reading program currently at 18.
06:08:12 Recreational sites throughout the city.
06:08:14 We wanted to expand to 24.
06:08:16 We will not be doing that.
06:08:18 As well as not expanding the art reach program.
06:08:23 They will maintain current levels of ball fields and
06:08:25 parks, many times when we're out at town hall meetings
06:08:28 or Neighborhood Association meetings or just meetings
06:08:30 in general, we hear that we need to do a better job of
06:08:32 maintaining our ball fields and our parks, and we were
06:08:36 looking to increase the level of services to those
06:08:40 facilities, but with the cut of over $118,000, we will
06:08:44 not be looking to do that.
06:08:50 The next area that parks and recreation focused on were
06:08:53 winter pools.
06:08:54 Traditionally, we've had seven pools open in the winter
06:08:57 They looked at those facilities that had less use
06:09:02 that -- the neighborhood would not experience a
06:09:05 significant issue with the closing of pools.
06:09:09 We have two that we're proposing not to open in the
06:09:12 Dr. Martin Luther King Junior, Spicola family pool.
06:09:16 We are proposing to keep open Cuscaden, Danny Del Rio,
06:09:21 Interbay, Loretta Ingram, and Sulphur Springs.
06:09:24 Those are strategically located throughout the city so
06:09:26 as not to deprive any one geographic area of the
06:09:29 ability to swim in a city pool during the winter
06:09:32 Reduction in part-time personnel that would impact the
06:09:36 future openings of facilities.
06:09:38 We're looking at a reduction of six part-time
06:09:41 positions, four that would impact the College Hill pool
06:09:45 when it is done and when it is open.
06:09:46 And two, that would impact the New Tampa community
06:09:49 center at cost of 123,278.
06:09:52 And then again, to enhance aesthetically improve
06:09:59 communities and parks, we had budgeted some dollars for
06:10:01 additional plantings, additional beautification
06:10:04 efforts, and those are proposed cuts.
06:10:08 Again, in summation, we have proposed $545,000 of cuts,
06:10:16 and now I will turn it back over to Ms. WE -- to
06:10:21 Ms. Wise.
06:10:26 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I want you to talk specifically about
06:10:28 a couple of things that are under your purview.
06:10:34 The maintaining current levels of programming for the
06:10:37 summer reading and art reach programs, unable to expand
06:10:40 to other parts of the city, just out of curiosity,
06:10:43 why -- why is that cut more appropriate than some other
06:10:52 cut in because it seems to me that is a function of
06:10:57 expanding reading opportunities to children.
06:11:00 And so why -- why is that one being cut?
06:11:05 We don't have the benefit of knowing what the analysis
06:11:07 is that each one of you all went through.
06:11:10 This is the only time we could talk.
06:11:12 After 501 tonight is the only time we could talk about
06:11:17 >> Councilman, as many of you know, I was a former
06:11:20 teacher, former high school principal.
06:11:22 That's a cut that hurts me tremendously.
06:11:23 No cut is more justifiable than any other cut.
06:11:27 And that's the beauty of the budget process.
06:11:30 When we put in our budget, we expect to expand
06:11:33 We are not cutting existing services, and that is the
06:11:36 The 18 sites remain intact.
06:11:38 Our mission to expand is on hold because we don't want
06:11:41 to cut existing services, but when we're looking at
06:11:44 cutting above threshold items, this one falls in an
06:11:48 above threshold item which does not impact any service
06:11:51 that we are currently doing that people have become
06:11:53 accustomed to.
06:11:54 And you know, our mission will be to expand to all the
06:11:57 sites in the future we're able to.
06:11:59 But no cut is more justified than any other.
06:12:02 They all hurt significantly the same.
06:12:04 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Well, I think we could debate that
06:12:06 Let me draw something else.
06:12:08 I just want to know, whose department it is that has
06:12:13 the Tampa/Hillsborough protocol office.
06:12:15 Is that within your realm?
06:12:18 >> Not that I'm aware.
06:12:19 I believe it's under Mr. Huey.
06:12:22 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Because that's $40,000.
06:12:24 And that one is not being cut.
06:12:34 >> The protocol office is multijurisdictional
06:12:36 initiative that was set up two years ago and involves
06:12:39 multiyear commitments on the part of the city, the
06:12:41 county, the Aviation Authority, the port is involved,
06:12:46 so we collectively came together to establish this
06:12:50 protocol office, and it's been a very effective office,
06:12:54 and all of the participants are committed to its
06:12:58 And again, we collectively made multiyear commitments.
06:13:03 >>SHAWN HARRISON: What do they do?
06:13:06 >> They work with inbound and outbound international
06:13:09 dignitaries, either political, business, who are coming
06:13:14 to our community and prior to this, we have not had
06:13:19 this function in our community.
06:13:21 So, again, they make sure that when international
06:13:26 dignitaries who are coming to look at our city to
06:13:28 potentially invest in our city, that their cultural,
06:13:32 social items that are important to them are handled
06:13:35 well by the respective entities that are a part of it.
06:13:40 So it's a very important function, and the handling of
06:13:44 international affairs.
06:13:46 And all who have been a part of it have agreed that
06:13:48 it's been material improvement in our city's
06:13:53 performance in handling both outbound and international
06:13:59 >> Just for the record, I don't think it's more
06:14:01 important than expanding reading opportunities for
06:14:07 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a question.
06:14:08 On the -- pool, I know it's not open yet, but you say
06:14:12 it will be open but you are going to cut -- how is
06:14:16 service going to be when they open?
06:14:18 It might be understaffed when opened.
06:14:21 Will you be able to increase the staff at the open?
06:14:24 >> Currently, we don't anticipate to increase staff.
06:14:26 We anticipate to modify the services there to meet the
06:14:29 staffing levels we have at the present time based on
06:14:32 what happens with the millage, based on what happens
06:14:35 with the revenue the city gets.
06:14:36 We're looking at probably maybe another year or so
06:14:38 before that pool is ready to go.
06:14:40 So we would anticipate reducing perhaps the number of
06:14:43 hours the pool is open.
06:14:44 Reducing the number of lifeguards on duty at certain
06:14:48 times of the day.
06:14:49 Those we would have to look at when the pool is in
06:14:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: A couple of things.
06:14:56 Is Curtis Lane here?
06:14:58 You don't have to come up.
06:14:59 I just wanted to say to Curtis, we appreciate you
06:15:02 coming up with the $53,000 from your demolition budget.
06:15:06 I just want to personally ask you that if you get to
06:15:09 the point where you have decrepit houses that need
06:15:14 demolition during the year, come to us and we'll find
06:15:17 the money somewhere to make sure they get demolished.
06:15:21 For now, it's good.
06:15:22 We appreciate you looking at that and tightening up
06:15:24 that part of the budget.
06:15:27 Just to clarify, Mr. Corrada, the clean city part of
06:15:35 this says $49,000 in regard to the interstate
06:15:38 maintenance contract.
06:15:40 That's basically something that could have cut -- could
06:15:42 have been cut from the '06-'07 budget without us doing
06:15:46 the millage, those parts of the interstate haven't been
06:15:49 done yet.
06:15:50 Just the '06-'07 budget, not the future years.
06:15:54 >> We budget in anticipation of those sections being
06:15:56 As you know when they do additional enhancements based
06:15:59 on our request, then we take over those maintenance
06:16:01 issues when they are finished.
06:16:03 So we budget in anticipation of sections being
06:16:07 And this is a part that we would cut based on the
06:16:10 anticipation that it might not be finished and or that
06:16:12 we would reduce the levels of service to those areas of
06:16:16 the interstate, those cycles.
06:16:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: This is probably associated with the
06:16:19 links project which is clearly behind or the causeway
06:16:23 project, which is clearly behind.
06:16:25 >> Yes, sir, any of those.
06:16:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And then the other part that's
06:16:30 related to that, that same type of thing, again, goes
06:16:34 to the New Tampa Community Center.
06:16:37 I don't know what the schedule is of that project, but
06:16:40 you're cutting -- theoretically cutting two positions.
06:16:43 We didn't really need them in '06-'07 because that
06:16:47 facility won't be built yet, right?
06:16:49 >> That's correct.
06:16:53 >>SHAWN HARRISON: If it's the same rationale as the
06:16:55 College Hill pool, you're saying that even though the
06:16:59 facility won't be built and, I mean, there's quite a
06:17:04 distinction in not funding positions that aren't even
06:17:07 going to be available during this budget year versus
06:17:10 eliminating those positions once they become available.
06:17:13 And this goes to this whole idea that we have to make
06:17:16 these cuts permanent.
06:17:18 There's no alternative but to make these cuts
06:17:20 So tell me what is the plan for those two positions
06:17:23 once this facility opens?
06:17:26 >> Again, we'd have to look at the uses of the
06:17:29 We'd have to look at balancing existing personnel to
06:17:33 fill needs, which is what we normally do when we don't
06:17:35 have the personnel that we need.
06:17:37 We move personnel around from facilities that are not
06:17:40 as used as others, and we shuffle people around.
06:17:43 That's what we would do.
06:17:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Wise.
06:17:54 >> Thank you.
06:17:54 We're finished with the power point presentations.
06:17:57 And I think you all have seen the hard time that our
06:18:01 administrators and our department heads have had in
06:18:03 going through this analysis.
06:18:05 It has been very thoughtful.
06:18:06 It has not been a decision at the administrator level.
06:18:10 We have worked with our departments.
06:18:11 We have worked with our staff.
06:18:13 That's where these cuts have come from.
06:18:15 And so I know that you don't have the benefit of the
06:18:18 hours and hours that the staffs have had in going
06:18:21 through reviewing the items, discussing them, refining
06:18:25 them, but I wanted to assure you of the thoughtful
06:18:28 nature and the time that was spent in putting these
06:18:32 I want to thank you for going through the entire budget
06:18:35 process with us for the entire staff who has worked
06:18:37 diligently for months and months, and especially the
06:18:40 last few weeks.
06:18:40 We really try to do, as the administrators have said,
06:18:45 really limit the impact to our citizens, but as you can
06:18:47 see, there is going to be some impact to our citizens.
06:18:51 We need to preserve police and fire, public safety,
06:18:54 critical to our city, and while we had to preserve the
06:18:58 reserves because they are at a critical level.
06:19:02 So with that, we will open that for any additional
06:19:06 And, of course, any public comment.
06:19:18 And David Smith does have some procedural matters to
06:19:21 very briefly go over with you.
06:19:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you for yielding.
06:19:27 I'll yield to Mr. Harrison.
06:19:28 You had another question for Bonnie.
06:19:32 Ms. Wise, the other question I had was -- and I really
06:19:36 appreciate the work that you all did on this horizontal
06:19:41 sheet that speaks to the nonprofits.
06:19:45 But I just want to clarify and make sure that I'm
06:19:48 reading this properly on the record.
06:19:51 Or I want you to clarify it on the record that as I
06:19:54 look at most -- most of these organizations or many of
06:19:57 these organizations, for example, MOSI.
06:20:01 MOSI has received $100,000 every year since 2001 with
06:20:06 no change.
06:20:10 Tampa Bay history center has received $125,000 for the
06:20:14 last three years with no change.
06:20:18 The kid city children's museum since 2002 has received
06:20:23 $45,000 with no change.
06:20:26 And I guess my question is, I'm trying to figure out
06:20:35 the logic in cutting these nonprofits 5%.
06:20:37 I think part of the logic in cutting the department
06:20:40 budgets and the general fund department budgets is
06:20:43 that -- and the reason we reduced the millage is that,
06:20:47 you know, we gradually have been collecting more and
06:20:49 more money in property taxes, and that money has been
06:20:52 going to the departments, and the department budgets
06:20:54 have been increasing over the last three, four, five
06:20:57 I don't have those numbers in front of me.
06:20:58 But we've read them in the newspapers.
06:21:02 And so, therefore, the logic would be, well, let's see
06:21:06 what we need to cut to get to the $3 million.
06:21:09 So all the departments have chipped in and fairly and
06:21:12 rather evenly and come up with, you know, 5% cuts or
06:21:15 whatever cuts you directed them to come up with.
06:21:18 Because they've been increasing over the years.
06:21:21 But that's not what I'm seeing on the nonprofits.
06:21:24 What I'm seeing on the nonprofits is the fact that
06:21:28 these various do-gooder organizations with thousands of
06:21:32 hours of volunteer time and, frankly, I think we
06:21:35 leverage our money tremendously in this community by
06:21:38 giving them, you know, 50,000 here and $25,000 there,
06:21:43 they've received the same amount.
06:21:44 They haven't prospered -- they haven't -- their budgets
06:21:49 haven't increased from the city on the whole over all
06:21:54 these years.
06:21:55 Now, there are a few exceptions.
06:21:56 And the total amount I know, you know, it differs.
06:22:00 But I think that relates back to just a few
06:22:02 organizations that got a big bump.
06:22:04 But on the whole, most of these organizations that
06:22:07 we're asking to -- or that you're asking to take a
06:22:12 piece of this cut have not had the increase over the
06:22:15 And I don't think that's fair at all.
06:22:18 And I just -- I'm just wondering what the logic is on
06:22:22 >> Council members, we were required to cut
06:22:24 $3.4 million from our budget.
06:22:28 $3.4 million, we were asking our general fund
06:22:32 department to look into their services and see where to
06:22:35 Those cuts hurt.
06:22:37 We created a budget that we felt was sound, that
06:22:40 addressed our citizens' needs, and they hurt.
06:22:43 And we couldn't ask our departments to come up with
06:22:47 anything more.
06:22:48 We have asked the nonprofits to come up with less than
06:22:53 We are still giving them $3.7 million more than our
06:22:59 entire cut, plus the debt service in excess of
06:23:03 $5 million.
06:23:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't think you are really
06:23:05 answering my question, which is the fact that unlike
06:23:07 all the departments who have -- their budgets have gone
06:23:10 up, tell me how much over the last two years, you know,
06:23:13 our general fund budget has gone up.
06:23:15 I thought I read in the paper that it was to the tune
06:23:18 of -- it was 27 million this year.
06:23:20 And 20 million last year, almost $50 million, that
06:23:24 $50 million, we didn't share the wealth with the
06:23:29 But now we're asking to share the pain.
06:23:31 And I'm just -- if you could just focus on that part of
06:23:34 the question.
06:23:35 I know it hurts everybody.
06:23:36 I understand that.
06:23:37 We're not unsympathetic to that.
06:23:40 And City Council, by the way, didn't include our part
06:23:43 of this.
06:23:44 Somebody could make a little presentation from city
06:23:46 You're asking us to cut our budget as well, which is
06:23:49 We should.
06:23:51 And we are.
06:23:54 But I don't think there is an answer to that.
06:23:56 I think they've been flat lined for years, and now
06:23:58 you're asking them to go down.
06:24:01 >> As you may have recalled I said that $28.7 million
06:24:05 increase in taxes from last year to this.
06:24:07 $13.7 million was just to keep our personnel and our
06:24:12 new personnel wages and benefits.
06:24:14 Otherwise, we are going to have to start eliminating
06:24:18 This is real.
06:24:21 So we have to put it in perspective.
06:24:23 Yes, some of the nonprofits have not increased over
06:24:27 But our citizens are asking us to provide more
06:24:29 services, in parks, in public works, yes, we have
06:24:32 increased our budget because we are addressing our
06:24:34 citizens' needs.
06:24:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
06:24:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, madam Chairman.
06:24:40 I want to compliment what you presented here today, but
06:24:44 I have to say it was -- this litany of reductions has
06:24:49 been extremely painful.
06:24:51 Recognizing the complexity and thoughtfulness of our
06:24:54 budget process, I do not believe that cutting our
06:24:57 millage was responsible action.
06:25:00 At our previous budget meeting, I moved the millage
06:25:02 proposed after much study and work be passed.
06:25:06 Unfortunately, my motion seconded by Mrs. Alvarez was
06:25:10 I feel very badly for all the worthwhile nonprofit
06:25:14 organizations supported by many of you which will
06:25:16 suffer a 5% reduction.
06:25:19 Please direct your frustration to my colleagues who
06:25:22 failed to support the administration's budget.
06:25:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do you want to give our phone
06:25:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This new limited budget reflects a
06:25:30 lessening of quality programs in our city and a
06:25:33 lessening of departmental improvements.
06:25:35 This is extremely painful, and I share the frustration
06:25:39 of the public and the staff.
06:25:43 Thank you.
06:25:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Smith, you wanted to say something?
06:25:51 >>DAVID SMITH: David Smith, City Attorney.
06:25:53 I would like to provide to Council what is essentially
06:25:55 a scrivener's correction.
06:26:08 But it's an educational scrivener's correction.
06:26:10 I would like to explain what it is and what it means as
06:26:13 it informs your process that you're going to engage in
06:26:16 after you get public input.
06:26:19 On page two of four of the schedule you're being
06:26:23 provided, one of the accounts was previously listed as
06:26:29 It's approximately in the middle of the page and I
06:26:32 think PW0401201, but in reality, that account didn't
06:26:38 have that amount of dollars.
06:26:41 So they needed to look at the additional accounts that
06:26:44 are listed below that to come up with the cut that was
06:26:48 the dollar amount needed.
06:26:51 What that means for your process tonight is important.
06:26:54 And that is, that if you're going to engage in the
06:26:58 colloquy that I think you must in order to determine,
06:27:01 you've got two basic options.
06:27:03 You either can accept the proposal that's before you or
06:27:06 you each have to convince enough Council members to
06:27:10 change some of those reductions.
06:27:13 The colloquy that Mr. Harrison engaged in is exactly
06:27:16 the point.
06:27:17 It is Council's opportunity to determine what its
06:27:22 priorities are, what its budget priorities are, and to
06:27:24 convince at least four of the other Council members in
06:27:27 that regard, and then you make those changes if you can
06:27:30 convince four Council members.
06:27:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: David, where is the typo?
06:27:34 >>DAVID SMITH: It's not a typo.
06:27:36 It's an addition of accounts.
06:27:37 If you look at PW401201, PW05012, PW0101201, those
06:27:45 series of accounts -- am I explaining this correctly,
06:27:50 Look to the moved message board on the right-hand side.
06:27:53 That's probably easier to locate it.
06:27:56 The dollar amount is the same.
06:27:58 You just got additional accounts identified that
06:28:01 constitutes the dollar amount.
06:28:02 But the reason that's important to you is, when you go
06:28:04 through your process after you hear public input, it's
06:28:07 not quite as easy -- well, it's not easy.
06:28:10 You know it's not easy.
06:28:11 These are tough choices for everybody and you're going
06:28:13 to have to make some tough choices and substitute, if
06:28:16 that's your desire, those tough choices for those
06:28:19 submitted by the administration.
06:28:20 But even when you do that, we need to make sure that
06:28:22 that account, for example, you want to reduce a cut in
06:28:27 one account and take it out of another account, we
06:28:29 can't tell you literally -- I don't think Jim Stefan
06:28:33 can tell you literally there are enough dollars in that
06:28:36 account to make that kind of a deduction.
06:28:38 So your budget book would be helpful in this regard.
06:28:43 I don't want to belabor this.
06:28:44 You have a lot of public that needs to be heard.
06:28:46 Part of the process, I think the dialogue you had is
06:28:48 exactly what is contemplated.
06:28:50 It's going to be a lively discussion, part of what
06:28:53 politics are about.
06:28:55 You guys are elected officials.
06:28:57 You have to make the tough decisions.
06:28:58 The administration made tough decisions.
06:29:00 They presented them to you.
06:29:01 And you get to receive public input and then see if you
06:29:03 want to change some of those decisions.
06:29:05 Thank you very much.
06:29:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Any questions from Council members?
06:29:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just a quick follow-on to my
06:29:14 statement about the nonprofits.
06:29:20 I don't know if there's room for the public with all
06:29:22 the staff here.
06:29:27 Just before the public gets up and speaks to this, I
06:29:29 think we should talk about the nonprofits.
06:29:32 Frankly, looking at this paltry $134,000 cut to these
06:29:39 agencies that do great good in our community with all
06:29:44 these volunteer hours and private contributions that
06:29:49 help support these agencies.
06:29:51 I think we should take that off the table.
06:29:54 I think that 134,000 dollars and 206 cents related to
06:29:57 those various cuts on page three, I think it's on page
06:30:05 Page three of the original document.
06:30:07 I think it should just be taken off the table.
06:30:14 I think we can get the money from emergency reserves.
06:30:22 Because we're putting in an extra five million dollars,
06:30:24 and I'm going to suggest various other things.
06:30:26 But I think it's important to address the nonprofits.
06:30:31 You got the humane society, $1200 budget.
06:30:35 They have a huge job as it is, and they've been static
06:30:38 for years and years.
06:30:40 The museum, the orchestra, the history center, Ybor
06:30:43 City museum, kid city, none of those needed to be added
06:30:47 to this.
06:30:49 None of those needed to be added to this.
06:30:50 I don't know why they were added to this.
06:30:52 But they've all been static.
06:30:55 None of those have benefitted from the increase in the
06:30:57 millage and increase in property taxes over the years.
06:30:59 That's what this horizontal document told us.
06:31:06 That's what they told us and it's not fair and not
06:31:08 I'm going to make a motion that right now we take that
06:31:10 off the table, that we eliminate any reductions to
06:31:13 these dozen or so nonprofit organizations for the
06:31:17 134,206, and we'll figure out if toward the end of the
06:31:20 meeting where that money will come from.
06:31:25 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I don't want to second your motion
06:31:26 yet, Mr. Dingfelder, because I do think that we should
06:31:29 hear from the public on it, but I can tell you that I
06:31:32 am very sympathetic to that motion.
06:31:35 And I find other things in this proposal that are
06:31:40 patently unfair as well.
06:31:44 And we will hear from the public on that.
06:31:47 But one of the things I do think that we should engage
06:31:50 in is sort of a philosophical debate, and that really
06:31:54 is the true value of the contingency.
06:32:00 And the contingency of $8 million versus the emergency
06:32:05 reserve, which we are adding five million dollars to
06:32:10 this year.
06:32:10 I think that that -- I don't think that anyone should
06:32:13 kid ourselves about the fact that that contingency will
06:32:16 be rated multiple times over the course of the next
06:32:21 year as is necessary, we do it every single year, the
06:32:25 contingency is impacted.
06:32:27 And I think that that is a philosophical debate that is
06:32:31 appropriate to have given the fact that we have cuts to
06:32:35 programs that impact directly the lives of people in
06:32:40 this community, especially the lives of children.
06:32:54 >>ROSE FERLITA: We are still at the point of discussing
06:32:56 a motion from Mr. Dingfelder.
06:32:59 This will be a step by step process in terms of what we
06:33:01 have before us and the conversation and dialogue we
06:33:03 started at 5:01 and not before that.
06:33:07 In the event that we agree on a portion of our homework
06:33:10 tonight and say, I don't think that we should be taking
06:33:14 out of nonprofits, can we make that move, and if it
06:33:19 gets the proper approval, not be charged with finding
06:33:23 out tonight, based on the opinion that we have, the
06:33:25 information I have and I'll tell you where I'm going
06:33:27 with this afterwards, we don't have to, as a follow-up
06:33:33 to that, show where we want to take it instead, do we?
06:33:38 >> I think I understand your question.
06:33:41 And what you have to do is you have to have a balanced
06:33:45 So when you take out of one account, you'll have to put
06:33:49 into another account.
06:33:51 And that literally is the process.
06:33:53 Chapter 166 requires you have a balanced budget.
06:33:56 So that is the result where you want to end up at the
06:33:59 end of the night.
06:34:01 I hope that answers your question.
06:34:03 Yes, you really do, for example, the dialogue you
06:34:07 heard, one of your Council members indicated, I don't
06:34:10 think this cut should occur.
06:34:12 It should come out of the reserve.
06:34:14 That's that balance.
06:34:15 I'm not recommending -- I don't have a dog in this
06:34:19 That's your decision.
06:34:20 But you need to do something of that nature.
06:34:23 You need to have a balanced budget because you are
06:34:25 obligated by law.
06:34:26 This is not easy.
06:34:28 You know, I'm not going to sugar coat it for you.
06:34:31 You know it's not.
06:34:32 What I would also encourage you to do is what
06:34:34 Mr. Harrison suggested, I know you've got some strong
06:34:37 opinions on a variety of issues, I would encourage you
06:34:40 to get your public input and then make your arguments
06:34:43 to one another, if you have arguments, if you're not
06:34:46 prepared to accept the proposal before you as is, you
06:34:51 then start that dialogue and start that discussion and
06:34:53 hopefully you'll be able to convince four Council
06:34:56 members of a set of changes that result in a balanced
06:34:59 And I'll go through that process after you hear from
06:35:02 the public.
06:35:02 You really do have a sequence you are supposed to go
06:35:05 You're supposed to consider the millage first.
06:35:08 But I don't want to complicate things too much.
06:35:11 I think Mr. Smith has something to say.
06:35:14 I would encourage you to hear from the public and let's
06:35:16 refocus the process and let you begin your dialogue.
06:35:21 >>ROSE FERLITA: That answers my question and I will
06:35:23 wait till we hear input from them, because I also have
06:35:26 ideas about that.
06:35:27 But I don't think this is the appropriate time.
06:35:28 Thanks for your clarification.
06:35:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just a clarification, Mr. Smith, when
06:35:32 you say convince four, total of four.
06:35:35 You don't need a super-majority.
06:35:37 >> Just total of four.
06:35:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If one person convinces three others
06:35:41 for a total of four.
06:35:44 >> You need four votes.
06:35:45 >> Good clarification.
06:35:50 >> Darrell Smith, Chief of Staff.
06:35:51 Just a point of clarification related to the motion and
06:35:54 the discussion with regard to the special funding for
06:35:57 those organizations, those nonprofit organizations.
06:36:01 You can see from our continuation that we believe
06:36:04 nonprofits are important to this community, no doubt.
06:36:07 But what we are doing is weighing nonprofits against
06:36:10 community services such as parks and recreation and
06:36:13 other items that were presented to you here tonight.
06:36:17 I would point out to you the matrix that was provided
06:36:21 that shows the funding by fiscal year.
06:36:24 You do see straight line funding in many areas, but
06:36:27 what you also see is additional nonprofits coming on
06:36:33 board in that budget starting in '05.
06:36:37 You see an increase of hundred thousand dollars, and
06:36:41 you see increases in FY '06 for stage works.
06:36:45 You see Spanish lyrics theater, you see the youth
06:36:49 opportunity movement.
06:36:49 You see the poet laureate.
06:36:52 You see $347,000 that this administration has increased
06:36:58 those agencies since '05.
06:37:03 So we have stepped up to the plate and provided support
06:37:06 for the nonprofits and other organizations listed here.
06:37:11 And again, I would encourage you strongly not to weigh
06:37:16 nonprofits against the importance of an emergency fund
06:37:19 that is needed for this city to protect the citizens of
06:37:23 this city and I would encourage you to take that into
06:37:27 Thank you.
06:37:33 >>KEVIN WHITE: I see on here I guess we could have
06:37:35 recouped several thousand dollars, the one, for
06:37:38 example, 37,5 that we had given to the urban league
06:37:45 which has now gone defunct, which we've effectively
06:37:46 recouped and there's another one -- my goodness -- I
06:37:54 thought there was another one on here.
06:37:56 I'm sorry.
06:38:02 I lost it as I was talking here.
06:38:04 There's one other one.
06:38:06 Yeah, the international fair trade now $50,000.
06:38:10 It looks like we're no longer funding.
06:38:13 So that's $87,500 on that one.
06:38:17 Which we would recoup.
06:38:18 One other one that I was looking at, $2,900,000 for the
06:38:23 youth opportunity movement, I know we did that last
06:38:26 year in conjunction with, in concert with the county
06:38:31 We decided to give this organization $200,000 in
06:38:35 matching funds with the county.
06:38:38 I was not aware that was going to be a reoccurring
06:38:42 program each and every year.
06:38:43 I thought that was a one-time commitment, and if you
06:38:48 can explain that, how that's continuing to come about.
06:38:52 >> My understanding is that it is continuing, and some
06:38:55 of the money actually also coming from CDBG.
06:38:59 They did apply through our CDBG process and granted
06:39:02 that $15,000 difference.
06:39:03 So if you are wondering why it went from 200 to 185.
06:39:08 >>KEVIN WHITE: I see why they did that because of the
06:39:10 >> No, even prior to that, because they are making it
06:39:12 up with CDBG.
06:39:14 So it is an ongoing program.
06:39:16 >>KEVIN WHITE: Okay.
06:39:17 But I remember specifically discussing that particular
06:39:20 I just thought it was a one time program to get them
06:39:24 through that year because of federal funding cuts.
06:39:28 And they were about to close the doors, actually.
06:39:34 And we helped them out with matching funds from the
06:39:37 Like I said, at what point in time in that process does
06:39:41 that become a reoccurring item, line item on our budget
06:39:46 for them because that was specifically a one time deal.
06:39:52 >> My understanding is that, yes, we did basically save
06:39:55 the program, and this allows them to continue the
06:39:57 program as well.
06:40:02 >>KEVIN WHITE: I understand what you said but that
06:40:03 didn't answer the question.
06:40:04 At what point in time did we as the city commit to
06:40:09 continue to make this a reoccurring line item on the
06:40:13 budget when it was just a one-time, one-year proposal
06:40:18 that we voted on as Council that we're going to give
06:40:21 matching funds along with the county $400,000 for you
06:40:25 to continue your program for the next 12 months, and
06:40:28 now I'm seeing it as a line item on the budget as a
06:40:33 And I've never seen that come back before us.
06:40:36 >> Well, it was part of the original budget that we
06:40:38 proposed to you.
06:40:39 Part of our entire budget process.
06:40:42 So as all these nonprofits talk to us throughout the
06:40:45 year, they do -- we did include it in our budget
06:40:49 process, and especially in this one, because they did
06:40:51 also apply for CDBG funding.
06:40:56 >>GWEN MILLER: We're going to go to the audience. Is
06:40:58 there anyone in the public who would like to speak,
06:41:00 would you please come up and speak.
06:41:02 If you are going to speak, please line up and speak.
06:41:15 >> Ladies and gentlemen, if I may, my name is Terrence
06:41:18 I reside at 1013 South Dakota here in Tampa.
06:41:23 And I want to begin by saluting the City Council and
06:41:26 thanking you for making a millage reduction as we asked
06:41:28 you to do.
06:41:29 You listened to your constituents, and you did the
06:41:31 right thing.
06:41:31 And since you did so in the last couple of weeks, I
06:41:34 have had occasion to talk to a number of people about
06:41:36 what they think about it, and it is an overwhelmingly
06:41:40 popular gesture on your part, although I will say there
06:41:44 have been a number of people whose reaction has been,
06:41:47 well, thanks, but that is just a pittance, and it is,
06:41:49 but it is a step in the right direction.
06:41:51 And I do thank you.
06:41:57 The litany of bureaucratic whining and griping that
06:42:01 I've heard tonight is the most disgusting display of
06:42:06 obfuscation and disassembling I have ever heard.
06:42:08 It is just plain false what they are saying.
06:42:11 They are acting as if we are trying to starve them.
06:42:13 The facts of the matter and they know these statistics,
06:42:16 are that the city budget is 728 million, it's increased
06:42:20 by $54 million, and we're just asking them to take 51
06:42:25 million instead of 54 million.
06:42:29 But you think we were starving them to death.
06:42:32 They are misleading you.
06:42:34 It's an insult to you and to their constituents.
06:42:36 The city budget is up 8%, more than 8%, ask your
06:42:40 constituents, did they all get an 8% increase this
06:42:44 You'll find, of course, that they didn't.
06:42:47 And Mr. Huey has said, well, we have to spend more
06:42:53 money attracting businesses here.
06:42:53 The best thing you can do to attract businesses is keep
06:42:56 taxes low.
06:42:58 Now, where you're going to cut it, I don't know, and I
06:43:00 think you're doing a good job in weighing that and I
06:43:04 like Mr. Dingfelder's proposal, but that's your job,
06:43:07 you are the leaders, you can do that.
06:43:08 I think you are doing a good job with that.
06:43:10 I would ask that if you can quintuplet it, quintuplet.
06:43:15 If you can't, have the fortitude to stand up to these
06:43:19 whining bureaucrats and stand up to this reduction.
06:43:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
06:43:27 >> Ronald L. weaver, 401 East Jackson Street.
06:43:31 I don't think that we've heard a litany of bureaucratic
06:43:34 whining tonight.
06:43:35 I think we've heard the opposite.
06:43:37 I think we've heard our entrusted staff agonize with
06:43:44 what could be done with the situation that really kind
06:43:48 of suggest an acrostic.
06:43:54 You're going to find budget cuts.
06:43:50 The "F" in find is fuel, been ruining us financially.
06:43:55 The "I" in find is insurance, which is ruining us
06:43:58 The "N" in finding budget cuts is no job.
06:44:02 The families that face no job unless you defer to these
06:44:05 not whining bureaucrats but the people who are in the
06:44:08 box, who are on the front lines, taking the heat, under
06:44:11 fire who have to deal with a tough situation, but a
06:44:14 tough situation that as the previous speaker said is
06:44:16 one reflective of the mood of the folks to be
06:44:19 In the movie "light with momma" which is a famous book,
06:44:22 the family got together on Sunday night and pitched in
06:44:26 what each family member made and tried to raise enough
06:44:29 money to put the eldest child through life so the
06:44:32 family could have a better life.
06:44:33 So the momma went without things so that the son could
06:44:38 go out and do better by the family.
06:44:40 Same is true tonight.
06:44:41 You have a family and the family has figured out what
06:44:43 it will take for the family to survive and deal with
06:44:45 the realities of the situation, and I think you should
06:44:48 put the "D" in find is deference.
06:44:51 The F is fuel that's killing us. The I is insurance
06:44:53 that's killing us. The N is no job, meaning found
06:44:56 places where they have the least disruption of people
06:44:59 who won't have a job.
06:45:00 Might be a single mom or single dad taking care of
06:45:02 So preserving the integrity and the fabric of their
06:45:05 organization, even though you might have better ways of
06:45:07 doing it and I thought of better ways if I were doing
06:45:10 I'm not doing it.
06:45:11 I'm not on the front line.
06:45:12 They are taking the heat for us.
06:45:13 I don't think it's bureaucratic whining.
06:45:15 I think it's the fabric, and it's the family.
06:45:17 And it's the deference we owe these people who are on
06:45:20 our front lines.
06:45:22 Thank you.
06:45:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
06:45:26 >> Good evening, my name is Craig Pugh.
06:45:29 Deputy director of Tampa's Lowry Park Zoo.
06:45:32 Lex Salisbury is unable to be here.
06:45:35 Lex is back at the zoo hosting 1,400 zoo and aquarium
06:45:39 professionals who are in town this week for an annual
06:45:42 Thank you for Council's request for information on the
06:45:45 You each know we appreciate the ways that the City of
06:45:48 Tampa and the zoo worked together.
06:45:49 You know that the Lowry Park Zoo manages the zoo on
06:45:53 city land to the benefit of the community and one way
06:45:56 the city helps is indeed debt servicing, as Bonnie Wise
06:45:59 correctly pointed out.
06:46:00 That debt servicing on construction funding, for
06:46:03 example, that's helped to generate about a million
06:46:05 visitors a year and about a 72 million-dollar a year
06:46:07 economic impact.
06:46:08 We're glad to do our part to help balance the city
06:46:11 budget, but the proposed budget shows a 30% cut from
06:46:17 last year's level of annual operating support from the
06:46:21 zoo and then the 5% proposed cut.
06:46:24 It would be irresponsible for us at the zoo not to
06:46:26 admit what would likely happen if zoo's funding is not
06:46:30 restored to last year's level of $500,000.
06:46:33 At the top of the list is potentially the loss of some
06:46:35 $375,000 of annual operating support from the county
06:46:41 that was contingent on the city's commitment of
06:46:44 $500,000 of annual operating support.
06:46:47 We also have a million dollars in state grants both
06:46:50 pending and deliberating and pending award.
06:46:53 And also federal funds that were requested and are
06:46:56 currently expected to be received based on applications
06:46:59 that show this stable level of support from local
06:47:03 I'm joined this evening by other staff and volunteers
06:47:05 who stepped away from their volunteer duties at the
06:47:07 conference to be on hand to be here to answer any
06:47:11 questions you might have.
06:47:13 I encourage your level of support to be restored from
06:47:15 last year, 30% cut risks really more than $2 million in
06:47:19 new money we at the zoo are trying to bring into Tampa.
06:47:23 Thanks very much.
06:47:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Question.
06:47:25 Craig, thank you.
06:47:28 Just to clarify, last year when you guys came in and I
06:47:32 think it was FACILE came to us and told us about the
06:47:37 county would match us if we went up from 350,000 to the
06:47:42 500,000, the county would match that, and then you guys
06:47:46 end up with, you know, with what, how much total?
06:47:51 >> 500,000 from the county.
06:47:52 They were going from 125 to 500,000, and 500,000 from
06:47:56 city, from 350,000 to 500,000.
06:47:59 With the county having initiated a biennial budget, so
06:48:03 clearly for the next two years, knowing that would be
06:48:05 500,000 a year for the next two years.
06:48:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And so clearly, there's $150,000 cut
06:48:13 from last year to this year plus a little bit.
06:48:16 We won't talk about the little bit.
06:48:18 So the $150,000 cut is not just 150,000, it actually is
06:48:21 doubled, at least doubled because the county is
06:48:24 probably not going to match it, so that ends up
06:48:27 And then I think you told me and you just mentioned a
06:48:29 minute ago that that also has an impact on your state
06:48:32 grant money.
06:48:33 >> We have a million dollars in state grants pending,
06:48:35 and more than a million in federal requests.
06:48:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Why would that be impacted?
06:48:39 >> One month from now, I'll be defending a state grant.
06:48:42 Two years ago, one major criticism of the statewide
06:48:45 review panel as we compete with this city with other
06:48:48 cultural facilities in other communities is why the low
06:48:51 level of city and county support.
06:48:52 A year later after your decision last year I returned
06:48:56 being able to say look at the level of support from
06:48:58 Look at the level of support from the city.
06:49:01 We got thumbs up and top marks of our grant request in
06:49:03 the State of Florida bringing in excess of $450,000 for
06:49:07 capital improvements to Tampa because of it.
06:49:09 Now what I'd have to do when defending this year's
06:49:11 grant is go back and not talk about zoo's exemplary
06:49:15 programs and where we are headed but have to defend,
06:49:18 explain or excuse why that level of support is now in
06:49:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The 150,000 could actually be
06:49:24 leveraged into almost a million.
06:49:26 >> Two million total.
06:49:27 We add the same then for our story with federal
06:49:29 requests as well.
06:49:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, next.
06:49:36 >> Good evening, Rick Feifer, 1408 Hanna.
06:49:39 Thank you for the millage reduction that you did on the
06:49:46 The public took a lot of berating from one of the
06:49:49 Council members that I thought was shameful.
06:49:54 And we were told that it was a bare-bones budget.
06:49:57 A bare-bones budget that we were going to not have this
06:49:59 and not have that, and yet 1.2 million, 35% of this cut
06:50:05 was because somebody's math was wrong on the actuarials
06:50:09 for the police and pension funds.
06:50:12 Two days afterwards, the Mayor says the cuts are going
06:50:15 to be made to -- so that the public feels the pain.
06:50:18 I hope that you stand by what you've done and I hope
06:50:21 that you restore the funding that is proposed to be cut
06:50:24 for the nonprofits.
06:50:26 I find it amazing if we're talking about building a
06:50:29 community when the tax operating budget which I
06:50:33 understand was the only thing that could be cut was
06:50:35 389.1 million last year.
06:50:38 It was projected to be 422.1 in the Mayor's request.
06:50:42 The reduction reduced it to 14.9 million.
06:50:45 That is still a 7.8% increase.
06:50:49 The property tax ad valorem revenue coming to the city
06:50:52 is still going up better than 18% from a year ago and I
06:50:57 don't understand while ongoing services need to be cut
06:51:01 in this city when this city has an unbelievable ratio
06:51:05 of employees making better than $80,000.
06:51:08 When I worked for DCF, I looked at a lot of contracts
06:51:11 for nonprofit agencies.
06:51:14 I never saw so much that was 80, 90, 100, 120 thousand.
06:51:20 I mean, I'm sorry, I agree with the first person.
06:51:25 It's a lot of bureaucratic whining tonight.
06:51:27 And that's from there again, someone who is kind of
06:51:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
06:51:36 >> Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, I'm Judy LISI.
06:51:39 I'm here to represent not only the Tampa Bay Performing
06:51:41 Arts center, but the many not for profits that the city
06:51:48 And I must say that I think the administrators really
06:51:52 did a terrific job trying to be fair across the board.
06:51:56 I really understand the challenges that you all are
06:51:59 I just wanted to remind the body of the thousands and
06:52:03 thousands and thousands of people that are not for
06:52:06 profits who serve every single year.
06:52:10 Many of them have major education programs that reach
06:52:12 out into the county as well.
06:52:13 And those are probably the most vulnerable programs and
06:52:17 the programs that will be most affected by these cuts.
06:52:20 I also -- I think my biggest concern, however, is the
06:52:25 indicator of what this means for the future.
06:52:28 And I think Tampa has really done -- come along so well
06:52:34 in trying to develop Arts and culture and make this a
06:52:36 city to be proud of, that our citizens could be proud
06:52:39 of, that they could have a full and rich life.
06:52:41 And my concern over time is, what are we going to do
06:52:45 about Arts and culture here.
06:52:47 Are we going to have a commitment to it?
06:52:48 Or are we not going to have a commitment to it?
06:52:51 And I think it has to be a conversation and a dialogue
06:52:53 that we have.
06:52:55 We can accept the 5%.
06:52:59 We'll manage.
06:52:59 We'll cut our programs this year, but it's not even
06:53:00 this year that's the concern.
06:53:01 The concern is what is it going -- what is going to be
06:53:05 the future of Tampa?
06:53:05 At a time when every major city in Florida is investing
06:53:09 and expanding its services in Arts and culture, Miami
06:53:12 just this week is opening their new Performing Arts
06:53:15 They are going to give a hundred million dollars to a
06:53:17 new Art Museum.
06:53:19 Every major city, city of St. Petersburg has done a
06:53:22 fantastic job of developing its art.
06:53:24 We have to stay ahead of the curve.
06:53:27 We've done it, done a good job, let's not give it up.
06:53:30 We'll live with this, please, in the future, let's have
06:53:33 a long-term dialogue about what we're going to do.
06:53:36 I appreciate your time.
06:53:37 Thank you.
06:53:37 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Judy, there's also a way that's
06:53:40 sweeping Florida right now and that is people are
06:53:45 clamoring for tax relief.
06:53:47 And these are not mutually exclusive ideas.
06:53:52 It's a matter of us prioritizing what our ideas are and
06:53:57 what you've heard a couple of us here tonight say, we
06:54:03 understand the good work that the nonprofits do and we
06:54:06 need to continue that commitment.
06:54:08 And that doesn't mean that the proposal that's in front
06:54:11 of us is acceptable across the board.
06:54:17 I will leave it at that.
06:54:18 But what you are asking, a commitment to cultural and
06:54:24 art life in our municipalities is an appropriate thing
06:54:30 for us to look at.
06:54:31 There's no doubt about it.
06:54:33 But it also has to be balanced with what the real world
06:54:36 is putting folks through right now.
06:54:40 >> No doubt about it.
06:54:41 All I'm asking is an understanding of the contribution
06:54:44 not for profits make to our whole tapestry of life here
06:54:47 and the rest of the state.
06:54:48 I appreciate your time.
06:54:50 Thank you.
06:54:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
06:54:56 >> My name is Joseph CATANO.
06:54:59 I live in the New Tampa area.
06:55:01 I agree with Mr. Harrison.
06:55:03 We should keep the reading program and dump the
06:55:07 protocol position, because I think it's a waste of
06:55:11 This year, the new tax roll is going to bring some
06:55:13 $28.7 million, and most of that money is from new
06:55:18 New construction is going to bring more franchise fees
06:55:22 and high sales tax on electric bills.
06:55:25 This month my electric bill was almost $18 for sales
06:55:30 I didn't even look at the franchise fee because I got
06:55:33 sick of it.
06:55:35 Franchise fees in every household will probably bring
06:55:40 somewhere around $38 million on top of the 28.7
06:55:45 The Mayor's budget in her office has an increase of
06:55:49 approximately $1 million.
06:55:51 I think that office overstaffed and we need some cuts
06:55:56 I know there are some positions that were supposed to
06:55:59 be there for six months, four years ago, and they are
06:56:03 still there.
06:56:03 They've got to cut them.
06:56:05 And if you don't know who they are, call me up and I'll
06:56:07 tell you who they are.
06:56:08 The Mayor has announced that she's going to make cuts
06:56:11 at the museum, the Lowry Park and other areas.
06:56:15 That's just hurting the heartstrings of the people to
06:56:19 soften them up.
06:56:21 There are many areas that the Mayor can cut without
06:56:24 touching the necessities of life.
06:56:25 I would like to point out, her administrative staff
06:56:29 should be reduced.
06:56:30 There are many projects that have spent millions of
06:56:32 dollars on, and lately, I guess we'll be studying money
06:56:36 on the light rain system.
06:56:38 It will be another boondoggle just like our Hartline
06:56:42 trolley system.
06:56:44 Every homeowner is faced with high electric bills, high
06:56:48 tax bills, real estate taxes, gasoline and everything
06:56:52 And a lot of people are unemployed at this time also.
06:56:59 I'm trying to find out information from our economic
06:57:02 development coordinator in reference to what type of
06:57:05 money comes in from the 33647 area on the electric
06:57:10 TECO won't release that information.
06:57:12 And the person that I spoke to says they don't keep
06:57:16 those records.
06:57:17 You mean to tell me that whatever TECO sends out, they
06:57:21 send the bills to 33647.
06:57:23 They know how much money is going out and they know how
06:57:26 much money has to be collected from that area.
06:57:28 When you go to Wal-Mart or any of these big stores,
06:57:31 they ask you, what's your ZIP code?
06:57:33 Why do you think they want to know that?
06:57:35 They want to know where their money is coming from.
06:57:37 And the city should know that also.
06:57:41 I've been sick and tired of hearing for 18 years, we
06:57:44 haven't raised taxes.
06:57:46 Okay, let's go back 18 years, how much revenue did we
06:57:49 collect in this city and how much revenue are we
06:57:52 collecting today in we need a massive, massive
06:57:55 deduction in our millage because the people are sick
06:58:00 and tired of it.
06:58:01 Thank you.
06:58:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
06:58:07 >> Good evening, spencer Cass, landmark realty.
06:58:12 1001 North Howard Avenue.
06:58:14 3614 West villa street.
06:58:17 I have a couple of things to say.
06:58:18 One is, I'd like to propose that you limit the budget
06:58:22 to 3% increase across the board.
06:58:24 That's it.
06:58:27 That's what most citizens in the City of Tampa got this
06:58:28 Cost of living, 3%.
06:58:29 You can raise the budgets for every single department
06:58:32 in the City of Tampa with a 3% increase.
06:58:35 No cuts.
06:58:36 Everybody gets more money.
06:58:39 Anybody consider that?
06:58:40 In addition, I would like to point out that, you know,
06:58:43 we complain about how the tax rate has gone up.
06:58:46 The city has to pay more for insurance to cover all
06:58:48 these buildings.
06:58:49 We have surplus property in this city.
06:58:51 You have a courthouse sitting downtown.
06:58:53 Nobody uses it.
06:58:54 It's falling apart.
06:58:55 We're busy paying insurance premiums.
06:58:58 Sell the buildings.
06:58:59 Put it up for auction, sell it.
06:59:00 Use the money to offset some of your expenses.
06:59:04 Too many expenses, you sell assets.
06:59:06 I'll give you a million dollars tonight for the
06:59:08 building if you're concerned.
06:59:09 There's a million dollars you don't have to cut.
06:59:10 If you think you can get more, get more, great.
06:59:13 Use that money.
06:59:14 In addition, I propose and I've spoken with people in
06:59:17 the administration before in the buildings department
06:59:19 about going to a self-inspection regimen where if you
06:59:23 apply for a permit, you can have a licensed
06:59:27 architecture engineer come out to your site, do the
06:59:31 inspection, submit it and the inspectors will go over
06:59:33 the reports they submit.
06:59:34 They'll do random inspections.
06:59:35 Won't cost the city a single city job.
06:59:38 And they can go back and do random audits and pull
06:59:41 licenses of people who don't comply.
06:59:43 Other cities use it.
06:59:45 It's a to save a lot of money.
06:59:47 There's a city I believe in California, they just
06:59:49 privatized a large portion of their government.
06:59:52 Save them 10% in expenditures, not save them 10% off of
06:59:57 the increase in expenditures.
06:59:58 Save them 10% of their expenditures.
07:00:00 So we know that you could do better.
07:00:03 Our offices represent hundreds of land lords.
07:00:06 I'm here tonight to tell you that every dime of the tax
07:00:09 increases that they receive for people who rent from
07:00:11 them will be passed on to the people who rent.
07:00:14 You know, lip service was paid this morning to
07:00:17 affordable housing.
07:00:18 Some of the people who truly can't afford housing are
07:00:20 those people who rent.
07:00:22 Every dime of the tax increases that are passed are
07:00:25 going to go straight to them.
07:00:26 Landlords who sucked it up in past years because they
07:00:29 feel bad for people, trying to help people out, don't
07:00:31 want to throw anybody out on the street, that's not
07:00:34 going to happen this year.
07:00:36 This year, 100% will be passed on to the people we
07:00:39 And that's going to cost jobs.
07:00:41 There are businesses who are about to get hit with
07:00:44 increases from some of our landlords that are going to
07:00:47 be 30, 40, 50 thousand dollar increases.
07:00:50 They don't have a homestead exemption. They are not
07:00:53 limited by how much they can go up every year. They
07:00:53 are going to get hit, and some of those businesses are
07:00:53 going to close down. So if you are concerned about
07:00:53 jobs, you should be concerned about those jobs.
07:00:53 Because you are about to have a whole bunch of people
07:00:53 without jobs. And it's unfortunate, and the landlords
07:00:53 don't want to do it. But they are tired of sucking up
07:01:11 these ridiculous bills that come out from the city.
07:01:14 You can do better with the money you have.
07:01:16 You have surplus property, you have all sorts of ways
07:01:19 of raising revenue, why don't you get rid of it.
07:01:22 I know Cindy Miller.
07:01:23 Very nice lady.
07:01:24 She does good work.
07:01:27 Auction off the properties that you have that are
07:01:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I would be afraid to sell you the
07:01:36 Federal Courthouse because I would be afraid would you
07:01:38 tear it down.
07:01:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Next.
07:01:44 >> Good evening, Council members, Debbie lamb.
07:01:46 718 West Kentucky avenue.
07:01:49 I'm just here as a citizen of Tampa.
07:01:52 I've been here since 1987, and to tell you the truth,
07:01:56 I'm really confused about this whole budget thing, and
07:02:00 what gets me is when I see -- when I read the paper, I
07:02:06 want to know how money is being spent, how sports
07:02:10 facilities are not paying their fair share to the
07:02:14 I love hockey, I love football, but I don't think it's
07:02:18 a tax pay they're we should fund these corporations.
07:02:24 Now, I see it coming back to haunt us.
07:02:27 We could use that money.
07:02:28 We could use it for affordable housing.
07:02:31 We could use it for the poor.
07:02:33 I knew this day was going to come, because Ralph Nader
07:02:38 did a study on it.
07:02:39 He says the community really doesn't benefit from it.
07:02:42 Maybe goodwill, but that doesn't put food on the table.
07:02:46 That doesn't take care of our schools, the potholes.
07:02:53 I love sports, but as a child, been playing football
07:02:56 and softball and basketball, but I can't afford these
07:03:01 million dollar salaries that these players are getting.
07:03:06 Some have complained that they don't make enough.
07:03:09 And here we are today complaining that we don't have
07:03:12 enough in our budget to take care of nonprofits or our
07:03:17 parks facilities and all this stuff.
07:03:20 I love the Arts, but we're spending a lot of money
07:03:23 trying to find a place for the Arts.
07:03:26 Have we found a building for the Arts?
07:03:29 And how much money, I don't know how much money?
07:03:32 How much money have we spent trying to find a place?
07:03:38 Can anybody tell me?
07:03:42 >> This isn't a back and forth.
07:03:43 >> I'm just saying -- I thank you very much.
07:03:46 I just want to let you know, I'm kind of frustrated
07:03:48 with all this stuff, that the Council members are not
07:03:52 protecting our tax dollars and on these other issues
07:03:59 that I think we could use as money now.
07:04:01 And also the debt, the debt that we have from our prior
07:04:04 administration, Mayor Dick Greco with the Ybor, some of
07:04:08 you Council members, and you all approved that.
07:04:11 Now we're stuck with the bill in Ybor.
07:04:15 So I don't get it.
07:04:18 Thank you.
07:04:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
07:04:29 >> Madam Chair, other distinguished members of the
07:04:31 Council, good evening.
07:04:33 My name is Marion Serious Lewis.
07:04:38 As you may know, I'm a candidate for Mayor in the year
07:04:42 Currently, I'm a captain with the Tampa Police
07:04:46 I would be remiss if I did not speak on a budget that
07:04:53 would still be in effect if or when I'm elected as your
07:04:58 next Mayor.
07:05:01 I am in complete support of the millage rate reduction,
07:05:05 although the 2% reduction was not enough to bring about
07:05:09 meaningful impact for the residents of Tampa.
07:05:14 I have reviewed the proposed budgets in full.
07:05:19 And I have found a lot of pork barrel spending, pet
07:05:25 For example, $700,000 has been allotted for the
07:05:32 That's not a priority.
07:05:33 The citizens that I talked to do not believe that
07:05:36 that's your priority in this city.
07:05:39 One million dollars has been allotted to convert twigs
07:05:43 from a one-way street to a two-way street, and that
07:05:50 does absolutely nothing to improve the flow of traffic.
07:05:53 It's a waste of money.
07:05:58 Also, the $15,000 raise that you all approved for the
07:06:04 Mayor's office, if I'm elected Mayor and when I'm
07:06:08 elected Mayor, that $15,000 raise I would bring that
07:06:11 back before the Council and have that money
07:06:15 appropriated in the budget and let's put it where it
07:06:18 needs to be.
07:06:24 I would ask that you analyze those projects with making
07:06:28 your final decision regarding this year's budget.
07:06:31 Thank you for your time and your consideration.
07:06:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
07:06:43 >> Good evening Council.
07:06:44 Rod GADAN.
07:06:45 I have dual residence, one in Lutz, and 3106 West
07:06:50 reddock in Tampa.
07:06:52 There seems to be a lot of focus on property tax
07:06:55 millage, but I feel that the focus has got to go to
07:06:58 assessments and values.
07:07:01 It is the property appraisers and the legislators that
07:07:04 are responsible for our outrageous taxes.
07:07:07 It is well known that this Council and our honorable
07:07:11 Mayor inherited a tremendous debt from our prior
07:07:15 The cut in millage that would give some citizens a
07:07:18 $20 savings is not resolving our tax hardships.
07:07:24 In fact, it would do more harm to the citizens to cut
07:07:28 three or four million dollars from public services.
07:07:33 In saying that, I am not saying that many departments
07:07:35 including yours does not have fat funds in their
07:07:42 What I would hope is this Council would identify these
07:07:44 funds and budget them to our emergency funds.
07:07:50 Being from New Orleans, I pray that the City of Tampa
07:07:53 will never face the tragic that this town caught itself
07:07:59 The many ways that families and homes were lost in the
07:08:04 city of New Orleans is an indescribable pain.
07:08:12 Council and citizens, if you are really serious about
07:08:15 reducing our property taxes, we have to contact our
07:08:18 governor and call for a special session of the
07:08:21 legislators to overhaul our property tax and our
07:08:24 insurance policies.
07:08:26 We need to ask -- the governor needs to command to the
07:08:31 legislators not to come home until they have an
07:08:34 affordable plan for all and have secured a financial
07:08:38 future for Florida.
07:08:41 They are -- their current policy and they being
07:08:44 property appraisers and legislators is to take property
07:08:48 tax and apply it directly to your wallet.
07:08:52 Take property tax and apply it directly to your wallet
07:08:56 and take property tax and apply it directly to your
07:09:02 Citizens, this land is your land, and your homes are
07:09:06 your homes.
07:09:08 Stand up and take them back.
07:09:12 Council and citizens, God bless you all.
07:09:14 Thank you.
07:09:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
07:09:14 Anyone else like to speak?
07:09:23 >> Joe Robinson, Tampa, Florida.
07:09:27 I want to say hello to my mom.
07:09:30 She's down here checking on her property.
07:09:31 Since she heard about these taxes.
07:09:34 She's about 80 some years old.
07:09:36 Momma, how are you doing?
07:09:39 This is a historical moment in politics in Tampa.
07:09:44 First of all, we had City Council do something that I
07:09:46 don't think they had an opportunity to do in 20 years,
07:09:49 and that is they were going to stop something.
07:09:52 Really didn't -- it made history.
07:09:56 It's allowing a dialogue to be created.
07:10:00 It's allowing cuts to be talked about.
07:10:04 It's allowing to see that really we had 1.2 million
07:10:08 that we didn't account for if we had approved the
07:10:11 There were $1.2 million floating.
07:10:13 How much more money floating?
07:10:15 I've worked -- and everybody knows I'm with
07:10:17 S.W.F.W.M.D. basin board, northwest Hillsborough basin
07:10:21 I want to remind you of that till 2009.
07:10:24 I'm your best friend because our board have grant
07:10:28 money, and we match millions.
07:10:33 We also set up a reserve of 1.5 million where we don't
07:10:35 have to wait till you come down in another two months
07:10:38 to start asking again in December.
07:10:41 So there are other entities that we didn't cut our
07:10:44 millage rate.
07:10:45 Our millage rate for northwest basin has been the same
07:10:48 for several, several years since I've been on it.
07:10:50 We haven't cut it.
07:10:52 But what we've done has been a better steward of our
07:10:55 money, a better steward of getting a bang for our buck.
07:10:59 Putting requirements on the people that get that money.
07:11:03 I think staff did a good job of making cuts.
07:11:07 My only concern is, we lost six million dollars --
07:11:11 horsing around with the museum.
07:11:12 Six million.
07:11:13 We lost $800,000 horsing around with the park.
07:11:20 We're losing several hundred thousand dollars a year
07:11:22 for central Ybor.
07:11:26 White elephants, well, we took an elephant, the
07:11:29 aquarium and saved it.
07:11:31 We took an elephant at the Performing Arts Center and
07:11:35 saved it.
07:11:35 So I don't think the city will die.
07:11:37 I don't think everybody will be upset.
07:11:39 Yeah, there's going to be -- I just think that more of
07:11:42 these cuts or more -- political year and being a
07:11:46 politician sometime myself, I understand that.
07:11:48 But that I think it was great that we did this.
07:11:51 The City Council did this so that we could have the
07:11:53 discussions, so we could have the debate, because when
07:11:55 the real cuts get ready to get cut, we'll at least have
07:11:59 an idea of how the system works, what needs to be done.
07:12:02 As a person aspiring to get up there, if this cut don't
07:12:05 work and the city starts failing and going down, I want
07:12:08 it to be known that Joe Robinson will be the first one
07:12:11 to raise it right back so this city will survive.
07:12:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone else like to speak?
07:12:17 We'll go to Council members.
07:12:18 Anyone like to speak?
07:12:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just a point of order.
07:12:23 I think we should talk about process first so we get
07:12:27 some sense -- I want to talk about our process before
07:12:33 we talk about legal process.
07:12:35 So if I could, actually, you know what, I'll hear you
07:12:42 out first, David.
07:12:43 Maybe you are going to say the same thing I'll say.
07:12:46 >>DAVID SMITH: David Smith, City Attorney.
07:12:48 Just a quick recap.
07:12:49 Tonight is the second hearing on the budget.
07:12:51 This is the final hearing.
07:12:52 This is the night you must pass the budget.
07:12:54 It's important that we do everything we can to pass
07:12:56 this budget.
07:12:57 You know this is the 28th of September.
07:12:59 Our fiscal year starts October 1st.
07:13:01 That's Sunday.
07:13:02 New money starts being spent October 2nd.
07:13:05 It's either going to be under the tentative budget,
07:13:07 which I hope is not the case or under the budget that
07:13:09 you pass tonight.
07:13:13 So we need to close out that prior year before we can
07:13:16 start the new year.
07:13:21 Also, I think I'd like to just briefly touch on some of
07:13:23 the rules that come into play.
07:13:25 As you know, in no event may you increase the millage
07:13:27 over the amount said two weeks ago.
07:13:29 You know that sets the ceiling.
07:13:33 Next, you know you also have to have a balanced budget.
07:13:36 Any adjustments need to retain a balanced budget.
07:13:40 So you're going to need a debit and credit if you are
07:13:43 going to make changes in what is being proffered to
07:13:46 You have to take separate votes on the millage and on
07:13:49 the budget.
07:13:51 Again, separate votes.
07:13:53 The first substantive issue, according to the statute
07:13:56 to be discussed shall be the percentage increase in the
07:13:59 millage over the rolled back rate.
07:14:02 That's the reading that Mr. White gave you at the
07:14:05 outset according to the statute, that's the item you
07:14:07 take up first, make sense, it drives the rest of the
07:14:10 As far as how you came with your dialogue, I think
07:14:13 that's completely and totally up to Council.
07:14:15 But those the parameters within which you must work,
07:14:18 and that's the askance in which you must operate.
07:14:20 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Thank you, Mr. Smith.
07:14:22 So the first thing we need to do is decide whether the
07:14:24 millage is going to stay at the 6.408, which we adopted
07:14:29 last two weeks ago or if it's going to go down.
07:14:32 It cannot go up.
07:14:33 >>DAVID SMITH: That's correct.
07:14:34 >>SHAWN HARRISON: That's probably a discussion we can
07:14:36 all have right now before we try to figure out where
07:14:38 the cuts are going to come.
07:14:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do we need to close, open, any of
07:14:42 that stuff?
07:14:43 >>DAVID SMITH: I'm glad you mentioned that.
07:14:44 You need to keep the hearing open.
07:14:46 It needs to stay open.
07:14:47 You need to take those two actions before you close it.
07:14:50 Voting the millage and voting the budget.
07:14:53 >>GWEN MILLER: So our dialogue will start with the
07:14:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So I'll move -- Mr. Harrison, why
07:14:58 don't you move it since you moved it last time.
07:15:00 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Well, I would welcome the opportunity
07:15:04 to reduce it even further than where we have this
07:15:07 evening; however, I think that you have to crawl before
07:15:11 you can walk.
07:15:12 And as one of our speakers said, this is the first time
07:15:16 the City of Tampa has reduced its millage rate in over
07:15:20 20 years.
07:15:21 And I think that it has been a conservative reduction.
07:15:27 I think it's appropriate for it to be a conservative
07:15:29 reduction, and it is my hope that what we have started
07:15:32 is a trend, that may continue in the future with more
07:15:36 conservative reductions.
07:15:38 But I think the lesson that will come out of this for
07:15:42 everyone concerned is that when Council members want to
07:15:45 talk about something that is important to them, that we
07:15:48 will talk about those issues.
07:15:51 And this issue was brought up this summer, and we had
07:15:55 the opportunity this summer to talk about this issue,
07:15:59 to begin to formulate potential scenarios where the
07:16:02 millage was going to be reduced, and we wouldn't have
07:16:05 to be here tonight literally making it up as we go had
07:16:10 we taken that opportunity.
07:16:12 So Madam Chair, with that, I will move to keep the
07:16:14 millage at 6.408 mills.
07:16:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Second?
07:16:20 Second and then questions on the motion.
07:16:29 Hold on just a second.
07:16:29 >>ROSE FERLITA: I would also like to make a comment to
07:16:32 the same end that Mr. Harrison did.
07:16:33 Mr. Harrison, you are absolutely right.
07:16:35 I think two months or three months ago, you made a
07:16:38 motion to just simply request that our colleagues agree
07:16:41 and allow your motion to pass to simply discuss the
07:16:46 opportunity of perhaps reducing the millage.
07:16:49 That was shut down.
07:16:55 At the end I was the maker of the motion that took on
07:16:58 that 2% decrease motion and we've talked about -- that
07:17:01 wasn't something that I just agreed on because we had
07:17:03 talked about it or tried to talk about it two months
07:17:07 I think it accomplished two things.
07:17:09 It wasn't excessive and for some people, it wasn't
07:17:13 But we have to start someplace.
07:17:15 And I think that the thoughtfulness of coming to the 2%
07:17:19 decrease which I don't think impaired this
07:17:21 administration from continuing to administration the
07:17:23 city and the needs of its constituents was
07:17:28 Tonight, we have power that we don't have other times.
07:17:30 Tonight we have the opportunity to reduce it even more,
07:17:34 and although some people are anxious that that happens,
07:17:37 I would say to you that I think that that would be
07:17:41 So I'm excited that we've gotten to this point.
07:17:44 I'm not excited about how we got there, because we have
07:17:47 much dialogue to go in terms of what we want to approve
07:17:51 and what we want to except based on the budget that the
07:17:55 administration has given us.
07:17:56 So I hope that the public understands it.
07:17:58 And I totally agree with Mr. Harrison.
07:18:01 We have done that symbolically.
07:18:03 Hopefully as you started tradition then it will
07:18:06 And as the growth of this city continues, so should
07:18:09 those reasonable motions continue on this Council.
07:18:12 So I hope that people that follow me will look at that
07:18:16 when they come to the budget process and try to do
07:18:18 something additional for the citizens through a
07:18:20 strap -- who are strapped financially.
07:18:23 I will support the motion certainly.
07:18:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
07:18:26 I will not be sporting this lessening of our millage
07:18:30 which is what is before us because it represents to me,
07:18:36 a reduction in our commitment to the quality of this
07:18:40 The tax concerns raised by the audience are very real
07:18:43 and very serious, and I respect them and recognize
07:18:48 One of our speakers identified the real source of pain.
07:18:53 And the real source of pain is insurance, and it's a
07:18:57 statewide limitation on taxes for the homeowner, which
07:19:02 makes the rental property and the business property
07:19:05 taxes exorbitant.
07:19:07 It's a complex issue.
07:19:08 It's a statewide issue.
07:19:09 And it's one that needs to be addressed on the
07:19:12 statewide basis.
07:19:14 I challenge my fellow Council members that the many
07:19:17 months that we all spent working on the budget were the
07:19:21 time to look at how to adjust our budget.
07:19:23 And this budget was arrived at not tonight but prior to
07:19:28 tonight was very difficult to create because suddenly
07:19:33 we had no storm reserve.
07:19:36 Suddenly many of our costs went up significantly.
07:19:39 And the original budget was tough to get to.
07:19:41 Tonight has been excruciating.
07:19:44 I think that this is not responsible and I won't be
07:19:49 supporting what is before us.
07:19:52 >>KEVIN WHITE: Contrary to Ms. Saul-Sena, I think this
07:19:55 is very responsible.
07:19:56 I think our constituency has come, and they've come
07:20:01 before the podium, they've written.
07:20:04 They've sent e-mails.
07:20:05 They've called, and I believe that we have responded to
07:20:08 the citizens of Tampa and what they have asked us to
07:20:12 As I said last week, we as elected officials go out and
07:20:17 ask the constituents in our community to be your voice
07:20:20 in government up here to respond to your needs when you
07:20:24 have concerns concerning government.
07:20:27 You have spoken loudly.
07:20:29 You have spoken clearly.
07:20:32 We are responding to your concerns.
07:20:33 Now it's our duty and challenge to try and revamp the
07:20:40 money and where we're going to come up with the cuts
07:20:43 that give you the citizens relief.
07:20:47 Granted, it's not much relief.
07:20:49 But as was said earlier, it's a step in the right
07:20:52 And that's what here to do.
07:20:55 We can't do this by leaps and bounds.
07:20:57 We must walk before we run.
07:20:59 And I think that's the first step here in what we're
07:21:03 doing tonight.
07:21:03 And I think this is the correct step, and I'm glad that
07:21:06 one of the quotes that I read in the paper about the
07:21:10 citizens giving the four Council members that voted for
07:21:14 the reduction a lot of grief and heat, I think that's
07:21:19 even come to fruition tonight that that's not the case,
07:21:23 that the citizens have responded, and they have
07:21:26 responded in the affirmative to the four Council
07:21:29 members that voted for this reduction.
07:21:31 And I think that's the general consensus of our
07:21:34 community as well as our state.
07:21:36 And I'm very proud to be one of the four that have
07:21:39 responded to you, the constituents' needs and I am also
07:21:43 very proud of the administration and the hard work that
07:21:45 they've put in to make the necessary cuts to make our
07:21:50 request and the community's request known.
07:21:52 Thank you, Madam Chair.
07:21:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Harrison.
07:21:54 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Thank you, Madam Chair.
07:21:56 And before -- I have to read this whole thing?
07:21:59 >> Yep.
07:22:03 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Let me say before I move it, because
07:22:05 there has been a lot of talk about this mythical
07:22:08 $23 benefit.
07:22:10 And that has caused some people to say that this cut or
07:22:15 this reduction in millage, this tax relief is nothing
07:22:18 more than a symbolic gesture.
07:22:21 And I think that you have to couple it with what is
07:22:23 happening in other jurisdictions.
07:22:26 If you couple this gesture with the gesture that
07:22:30 occurred down the street at the county commission, the
07:22:34 savings are much more than symbolic.
07:22:38 For instance, on a $300,000 assessed homestead, the
07:22:42 savings with our reduction and the county's reduction
07:22:47 are $220.
07:22:50 On a 2 million-dollar commercial property, the savings
07:22:56 between our reductions and the county's reductions are
07:22:59 almost $1500.
07:23:02 Now, that may be symbolic to many people, and that may
07:23:04 be belittled by some people as being not worth the
07:23:10 effort of doing, but I disagree with that strongly.
07:23:13 And I think all we have done is grown -- we have joined
07:23:16 the trend of other municipalities and other
07:23:20 jurisdictions in listening to our constituents.
07:23:23 And at the end of the day, that is what we are here to
07:23:26 So Madam Chair, with that, I move a resolution levying
07:23:28 an ad valorem tax at the rate of six and four hundred
07:23:33 eight thousandths, 6.408 mills upon all real and
07:23:37 certainly taxable property in the City of Tampa for the
07:23:39 fiscal year 2007.
07:23:42 Authorizing the Mayor and city clerk to certify such
07:23:45 millage, providing an effective date.
07:23:47 Be it resolved by the City Council of the City of
07:23:49 Tampa, Florida, section 1, ad valorem tax rate -- that
07:23:54 an ad valorem tax at the rate of six and four hundred
07:23:59 eight thousandths, 6.408 mills to raise the amount of
07:24:03 money as fixed in the annual budget of the City of
07:24:03 Tampa for the fiscal year commencing October 1, 2006,
07:24:07 and ending September 30, 2007, for the general fund for
07:24:11 the maintenance and operation of the City of Tampa as
07:24:13 hereby levied as provided by law on all real and
07:24:16 personal property taxable for that purpose in the City
07:24:19 of Tampa.
07:24:20 Section two that the Mayor and city clerk as the
07:24:22 property authorities of the City of Tampa are dually
07:24:24 authorized, empowered and directed to certify to the
07:24:27 property appraiser of Hillsborough County, Florida, the
07:24:29 millage to be levied for all purposes for the fiscal
07:24:32 year 2007 in the City of Tampa, to wit, 6.408 mills
07:24:37 which exceeds the rolled-back rate as defined in
07:24:39 section 200.065 parentheses one of the Florida statutes
07:24:45 by 15.61% and to request a levy of the millage as set
07:24:50 forth upon all real and personal property in the City
07:24:52 of Tampa as set forth -- as above set forth in
07:24:55 accordance with the provisions of the constitution and
07:24:58 laws of the State of Florida.
07:24:59 Section 3, that other proper officers of the City of
07:25:02 Tampa are authorized to do all things necessary and
07:25:05 proper in order to carry out and make effective the
07:25:07 terms and conditions of this resolution which shall
07:25:11 become effective immediately upon its adoption.
07:25:14 Passed and adopted by City Council of Tampa, Florida,
07:25:16 on today's date.
07:25:17 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
07:25:18 All in favor of the motion, aye.
07:25:20 Opposed, nay.
07:25:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Nay.
07:25:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 2.
07:25:27 Which is pass the resolution.
07:25:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can I speak to the process?
07:25:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Sure.
07:25:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Madam Chair, I would just suggest
07:25:32 that I think we're at this point we're going to have
07:25:34 some discussions on what we agree with and what we
07:25:37 disagree with in regard to the proposed budget that
07:25:42 came from the administration.
07:25:43 And I think that's a very healthy process.
07:25:46 What I would suggest is probably that we vote on an
07:25:51 item by item basis, not necessarily taking each item,
07:25:54 but at least as each Council person addresses an item
07:25:57 and they want to make a motion to do something with
07:26:00 that line item, that we address it by code number so
07:26:04 it's very clear on the record, and that we then take a
07:26:08 vote on that individual item so we can just track along
07:26:12 and move with due speed.
07:26:15 That would just be my friendly suggestion, and I'll
07:26:20 defer to the rest of the Council as to whether or not
07:26:22 they have friendly suggestions.
07:26:23 And then after we identified -- after we identify what
07:26:27 we think should be eliminated from the proposed budget,
07:26:30 then I think we should go to the other side of the
07:26:33 page, because we do have to have a balanced budget, to
07:26:35 identify where we would make up that difference when we
07:26:40 sum up the totals.
07:26:41 So when we sum up what we're going to eliminate off of
07:26:44 these sheets, it's anything.
07:26:46 Then we might come to let's say $500,000.
07:26:49 Then on the other side of the balance sheet, we're
07:26:51 going to have to fund that $500,000 and then we can
07:26:54 discuss that at the second part of the meeting.
07:26:56 It's just it's a friendly suggestion.
07:26:58 It might be a neat way to do it.
07:27:00 I'm open to other ideas.
07:27:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Dingfelder.
07:27:03 It's an interesting suggestion, but I think a more
07:27:06 efficient way to do it might be to see if there's
07:27:09 consensus among us about the restoration of the
07:27:11 nonprofit money and then address Mr. Harrison's
07:27:16 suggestion that perhaps that come from the contingency
07:27:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But I have another seven items.
07:27:23 That's a wonderful thing, and Rose probably has some,
07:27:26 And Kevin might, too.
07:27:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The things that might receive the
07:27:38 most universal agreement first.
07:27:41 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I have thought about this and I met
07:27:43 with Bonnie about this yesterday.
07:27:45 And I actually prepared a list and I'll pass it out.
07:27:47 Maybe there is support for everything on the list and
07:27:50 maybe there's not.
07:27:51 But I know that -- I agree that we're going to have to
07:27:55 ultimately go line by line.
07:27:57 But this might get us started to have if we all have
07:28:00 some kind of common understanding of where some of
07:28:02 these cuts can and cannot come from.
07:28:05 Did everybody get a copy?
07:28:22 >> I took the revised exhibit A that you handed out
07:28:24 tonight, Mr. Smith, and I put check marks beside the
07:28:29 items that I suggest do not get cut.
07:28:34 And the total of those items is $611,000 and some
07:28:40 The balance of that -- speaking from this Council
07:28:44 member, I'm fine with the Mayor's proposal.
07:28:47 So what it comes down to is $611,000 worth of cuts that
07:28:53 I don't agree with, and the rest I do.
07:28:56 And for everybody's, I guess edification, Bonnie, this
07:29:01 is the exact same list that I talked with you about
07:29:07 And maybe we still want to just go line by line, that's
07:29:10 But this might provide some consensus on where we go.
07:29:12 And my proposal would be that that $611,000 comes from
07:29:15 the contingency, not from the emergency reserve, from
07:29:19 the contingency.
07:29:20 If the 5 million-dollar emergency reserve is absolutely
07:29:25 sacrosanct and everyone is in agreement that it cannot
07:29:28 be touched, then from this Council member's
07:29:31 perspective, I'm fine with that.
07:29:33 It can come from the other $8 million of contingency
07:29:37 that we're putting into our budget.
07:29:40 >>ROSE FERLITA: Madam Chairman, let me very quickly,
07:29:42 not to waste anybody's time on this Council, make my
07:29:46 comments that I was saving.
07:29:48 I didn't know we were going to go right into cut --
07:29:52 just a few comments, and it will get me to where I want
07:29:55 to be.
07:29:56 So Mr. Harrison, if you'll indulge me.
07:29:59 First of all, I've had problems and I've been quiet
07:30:01 because I thought at some point we were going to be
07:30:03 able to express our opinion on where we are.
07:30:06 We talked about several things tonight and we talked
07:30:08 about definition of terms and some continue to talk
07:30:10 about the cut in the budget.
07:30:11 And as we have continued to enforce the fact that it is
07:30:14 not a cut in the budget, it is a budget cycle that
07:30:18 gives us, in fact, $28 million increase windfall.
07:30:22 And from that, we this Council agreed to take 3.4 and,
07:30:27 of course, 1.2 was quickly found.
07:30:30 So we're down to 2.2 million to streamline.
07:30:33 That's 2% we've talked about that.
07:30:36 Ms. Wise, this might cause a problem with
07:30:38 Mr. Harrison's suggestion, and that's why I felt it's
07:30:41 important that I bring this up.
07:30:44 I think your fiscal stewardship in terms of what you
07:30:47 have shown us on this graph is impressive, and it's
07:30:50 well placed.
07:30:52 I understand the need for the reserves, the value of
07:30:54 those reserves, both, both the fiscal, the recurring
07:30:57 services and reserves and the emergency reserves.
07:31:00 And you and I talked at length yesterday why you
07:31:02 thought it should be what it should be based on
07:31:06 discussions about bond rating, et cetera.
07:31:08 And I agree with you.
07:31:11 I think I emphasized that when we went to
07:31:12 Mr. Harrison's idea about taking this off of the
07:31:15 emergency reserves last time to have a -- a temporary
07:31:18 or tentative budget balance so we could come till
07:31:22 I just want to put that on the table that I agree with
07:31:24 you, and my opinion is that should be left in intact.
07:31:29 So that's contrary to what I think Mr. Harrison is
07:31:31 going to talk about.
07:31:32 You spoke about the fact that those reductions are
07:31:34 going to be permanent and probably they are.
07:31:37 But the issue is, that we can anticipate increases in
07:31:40 revenue to offset that at some extent.
07:31:43 I think Mr. Daignault said we are taxed with the growth
07:31:45 of our city.
07:31:46 You bet, but I submit to you that we are also going to
07:31:49 be the beneficiaries of that same growth.
07:31:51 So some of those factors that we're not talking about
07:31:54 tonight and don't need to talk about it at length are
07:31:56 also considerations, like property valuation increases
07:31:58 and franchise fees, even if franchise fees don't go up
07:32:02 because of the growth we'll have more meters and we'll
07:32:04 have more pass-through revenue because of franchise.
07:32:07 So that gets us to the opening comment that you made.
07:32:11 I sent you an e-mail the day before yesterday asking
07:32:17 you to explain to me the benefit -- please list how the
07:32:22 28.7 million was distributed.
07:32:26 I asked you that because I needed to know where it was
07:32:28 and specifically line by line where it was allocated
07:32:31 because that's over and above the budget that you've
07:32:33 had before.
07:32:35 You were not able to do that.
07:32:36 You did in generality show me tonight 13.7% and 4.7 in
07:32:42 operations, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
07:32:45 I think that we should not abandon fiscal discipline.
07:32:47 And I agree with the Tribune and I think they had a
07:32:50 lengthy editorial today and I agree with that.
07:32:52 But I still think that the methodology is wrong.
07:32:55 So I have a hard time looking at the rest of this
07:32:58 without having given the opportunity and given the data
07:33:01 to see where else we could direct some of these cuts.
07:33:04 Mr. Weaver was very entertaining and I will try to
07:33:08 mimic what he said about that same family.
07:33:11 That same family has a certain budget that they live
07:33:14 They live within.
07:33:15 And all of a sudden, that family gets more money, the
07:33:18 father or the mother or somebody gets an increase in
07:33:21 And so what they do is share that wealth with the
07:33:24 Some need it more depending on their schooling and
07:33:26 depending on where they are and what expenses they need
07:33:28 to absorb and they learn -- they try to teach them how
07:33:31 to handle their own budget.
07:33:32 Then they find out that they didn't get the money they
07:33:35 thought they were going to get.
07:33:37 Some kids have benefitted.
07:33:39 One kid perhaps didn't get it.
07:33:41 And that's a corny analogy but Mr. Weaver made me think
07:33:44 about it.
07:33:45 That child that didn't get the increase in the first
07:33:47 place and now stands to be punished because the money
07:33:50 is not there are all of these not profits.
07:33:54 Because they didn't benefit from increases before.
07:33:56 It's flat and straight.
07:33:57 And now we're saying this is someplace that we're going
07:34:00 to pick to cut some of those -- that revenue and that
07:34:03 growth that we need to take care of.
07:34:06 I don't see the logic.
07:34:07 I don't agree with the methodology, and I think it is
07:34:10 most unfair.
07:34:11 Time ever time when Ms. Lisi has come up here or
07:34:14 Mr. Pew has come up here, I said the biggest fault they
07:34:18 have is that they don't advertise enough the good they
07:34:20 do for this community.
07:34:22 It's just not a nonprofit that has something to do,
07:34:25 give them some dollars to look at the Performing Arts
07:34:27 center or take care of the animals at the zoo.
07:34:30 They have outreach programs that are important to this
07:34:33 community that are essential to this community and we
07:34:35 have partnered with them.
07:34:37 And for us to go to the same chart and say, okay, we've
07:34:40 got to streamline this by 2.2 million, I think it is
07:34:46 horrible methodology.
07:34:47 I don't think it makes any sense.
07:34:49 And so that's my concern at this point.
07:34:52 Mr. PUGH clearly showed and we have talked to some of
07:34:55 the personnel at zoo today, that this represents more
07:34:59 than what you are going to cut at the zoo, because
07:35:01 matching dollars are not going to be there.
07:35:03 Grants get off the table because it has not been
07:35:07 supported as much as it should be by the zoo, by the
07:35:10 city, so we are asking them to take more than a 5% cut.
07:35:13 A cut that they had nothing to do with.
07:35:15 It was just someplace to knock some more dollars off.
07:35:18 Had I been give an little more itemized issue about
07:35:21 where those $28.7 million increases went, then I could
07:35:26 go over many hours line by line by line and see who got
07:35:30 it and who should have that taken away.
07:35:33 This is one of the disadvantages, colleagues, that we
07:35:36 have made for ourselves.
07:35:37 We talked about not being able to afford a budget
07:35:41 Well, just this very last week, I hired a professor at
07:35:44 the University of Florida, University of Tampa to help
07:35:46 us with that, Mr. Shelby was there.
07:35:48 I was willing to pay for that because I thought that
07:35:51 sometimes in accounting issues we are misdirected.
07:35:53 He had some hardships and some difficulties in
07:35:57 understanding how we got to this.
07:35:58 So the long and the short is that I won't support
07:36:01 decreases in reserves, recurrent or emergency.
07:36:04 I will not in any form or fashion, punish the
07:36:07 nonprofits for being good partners with us, and I think
07:36:10 without the appropriate information for me to look at
07:36:13 where these dollars went, I have no idea where to
07:36:16 recoup them again.
07:36:17 We are city of the Arts and we're cutting the Arts.
07:36:20 It makes no sense.
07:36:21 So my position probably tonight is going to be that we
07:36:26 have some opportunities to look at this and come back.
07:36:29 And that's why I asked my question to Mr. Smith about
07:36:33 where we were with the budget that we sat on last time
07:36:36 and I clearly said it was not going to be a permanent
07:36:39 I agree with Ms. Wise on the emergency reserve.
07:36:42 So I wanted to put that on the table before we look at
07:36:44 everybody's suggestions and I don't mind being here as
07:36:47 long as everybody else is.
07:36:48 But I think it's going to be tough for the people not
07:36:50 really that concerned about this, and they are
07:36:52 concerned about the 16 other issues that we have or 14
07:36:55 others that we have.
07:36:55 So I know that we had a hardship about not being able
07:36:58 to talk about this before 5:01.
07:37:00 I hope it's a better process for the people next time.
07:37:06 For right now that's what we are strapped with.
07:37:09 Whether Mr. Harrison or Mr. White's suggestion, this
07:37:11 will be a long process and I don't have the information
07:37:13 to make a conscientious decision so I will not based on
07:37:16 the information I just put on the record.
07:37:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Harrison, are you ready.
07:37:20 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Our math whiz is double-checking my
07:37:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What I would suggest, I have some
07:37:29 that are in addition to Mr. Harrison, and I don't agree
07:37:32 with just a handful of his as well.
07:37:34 So what I would suggest, let's just start on page A,
07:37:38 one of four, exhibit A one of four and we'll just go
07:37:41 down, and if any person wants to address any particular
07:37:44 item, let's address it, if not, let's move down.
07:37:47 And then we'll -- I think we can get through this
07:37:49 pretty quickly and that would be my suggestion.
07:37:53 So without further ado, everybody is okay with that.
07:37:57 I have a comment on the first one.
07:37:59 BC0201101, this is the two full-time real estate
07:38:05 But one of those positions is the ombudsman position,
07:38:09 and I hope Ms. Saul-Sena comes back in because I think
07:38:13 she had spoken about ombudsman in the past.
07:38:16 I think that Ms. Miller had indicated that that
07:38:19 ombudsman position could be added back in to the tune
07:38:23 of $60,000.
07:38:24 Well, she didn't suggest it, but she indicated
07:38:26 somewhere in the tune, that that might be a
07:38:28 $60,000 position.
07:38:29 And so what I would suggest that instead of 142,298,
07:38:34 that we take that to 82,298, which would leave
07:38:39 $60,000 for the ombudsman position.
07:38:42 I think the ombudsman is extremely important.
07:38:44 I hear complaints and we all hear complaints.
07:38:46 Rose, I know you hear tons of complaints from the
07:38:49 construction community about how difficult our system
07:38:50 is to maneuver, and that's what an ombudsman does.
07:38:54 It helps people maneuver through our system.
07:38:57 So anyway, so that would be a reduction.
07:39:00 My motion would be a reduction of the 142298, reduce
07:39:04 that 60,000 and instead it would end up 82298.
07:39:10 So that's my motion.
07:39:13 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Why don't we just talk about our
07:39:15 ideas before we start making motions, because --
07:39:22 >>KEVIN WHITE: Well, when you make that, I would like
07:39:26 to know where you would like the other monies to come
07:39:29 from to offset supplement.
07:39:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, I think it either comes from
07:39:35 the general reserve or from the emergency reserve or
07:39:38 I think that at the end of this list, if we end up with
07:39:41 six, seven, eight hundred thousand dollars, because I
07:39:44 think that's where we'll end up, then I think the
07:39:47 prudent thing would be to split that baby, take half
07:39:50 from the general reserve, half from emergency reserve,
07:39:52 and go from there.
07:39:54 But I don't know, you know, if we take each item and
07:39:57 then go back and say, blah, blah, that's why I thought
07:40:01 maybe we run through these first, see what the total
07:40:04 is, and then go back --
07:40:06 >>KEVIN WHITE: If it's all coming from the general or
07:40:08 the reserve, I'm okay with it -- I'm okay with that
07:40:12 I'm not saying I'm going to support that.
07:40:15 If we're going to take it from each department, if
07:40:17 we're going to go --
07:40:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm not going there.
07:40:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Let's here from Ms. Wise.
07:40:22 >> I just really want to give you a final caution on
07:40:26 the preservation of our reserve.
07:40:28 We already know of something that will impact our
07:40:31 contingency amount.
07:40:32 And that is when -- we met with the property appraiser.
07:40:36 We have noticed that they have not included all the
07:40:38 properties in the CRA boundaries that they were
07:40:41 supposed to.
07:40:43 And there is a major property in the downtown area that
07:40:45 was not included in the CRA boundaries, and that is the
07:40:50 And that impact to our general fund could be about
07:40:54 That's monies that should have gone into the CRA.
07:40:57 So when the property appraiser gave us the number, they
07:41:02 That's something we know about already.
07:41:05 That money to go into the CRA would have to come from
07:41:09 That's something we know about.
07:41:11 We're hopeful that we will be able in March or April to
07:41:14 buy more property insurance or maybe even before that.
07:41:19 That's where that would come from.
07:41:21 If there's a greater fuel increase, that's where that
07:41:24 comes from.
07:41:27 >> When did we find out about the Marriott?
07:41:29 >> This is just the past few weeks.
07:41:32 >> Kind of reminded me about the disparity study,
07:41:35 finding out about more and more people left out every
07:41:38 >> We rely on information from the Property Appraiser's
07:41:41 This happens and this was actually due diligence of our
07:41:44 staff who recognized that not all the properties were
07:41:47 included in the boundaries, the same information from
07:41:49 the property appraiser.
07:41:51 So we, our staff, found this error, urban development.
07:41:54 So anyway, I just really want to share with you that
07:41:59 these are the important things in our city that impact
07:42:02 our reserves, just a few of them.
07:42:05 So I just caution you and make it very clear for us
07:42:08 when you talk about adding something back, where that
07:42:11 money will come from.
07:42:13 >>KEVIN WHITE: Ms. Wise, do you think it might be a
07:42:15 wise idea to give the administration another week and
07:42:17 maybe we'll find the extra money -- I say that in jest,
07:42:22 but we do have another week if we need another week
07:42:25 because it would just go on the proposed budget that we
07:42:28 have now.
07:42:29 We have six weeks.
07:42:30 We have six months if that's what we need.
07:42:34 But I'm just saying, if we keep finding 1.2 million
07:42:38 here, a half million there, let's go back and everybody
07:42:41 relook at what we have and we may come up with a
07:42:48 balanced budget.
07:42:49 >> We are not going to be able to find another million
07:42:54 I wanted to clarify something that one of the speakers
07:42:56 said that the actuarial was a mass error.
07:42:59 Because I want you all to know and our public to know
07:43:02 that we have to do our calculations based on
07:43:06 information that we have available at the time.
07:43:08 You know we work on this budget in the spring.
07:43:11 The actuarial report for fire and police was not yet
07:43:14 We put in a conservative estimate.
07:43:17 We have to do that because we cannot be short on police
07:43:21 and fire pension monies throughout the year.
07:43:23 We were fortunate, though, when the actuarial report
07:43:26 came in, we had the million two.
07:43:27 I can assure you, there are no other rocks like that.
07:43:33 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Ferlita.
07:43:34 >>ROSE FERLITA: But there might be other baby things
07:43:36 that can be transferred back and forth.
07:43:39 I'm agreeing with him because we are going to go
07:43:41 through each one of these.
07:43:43 I'm at a standstill already.
07:43:44 I agree with you, Ms. Wise, that I don't want to take
07:43:47 it from either one of the reserves.
07:43:49 And I agree with you that we didn't want to touch
07:43:52 public safety, and you didn't.
07:43:53 And so -- I am never going to support the decreases to
07:43:58 the nonprofits because I think that was just an unfair
07:44:00 shot at it.
07:44:01 So I think it's not necessarily just the administration
07:44:05 charge in the next week or two, whatever it is, also
07:44:08 gives us an opportunity with the appropriate
07:44:10 information to see if we can get cuts here and there
07:44:12 and here and there where it's less painful and it
07:44:15 doesn't end up saying, well, we can cut this and this
07:44:18 and this and that and whatever the deficit is, we take
07:44:21 it off of these reserves.
07:44:22 I don't think that's prudent, and I agree with you.
07:44:24 We don't agree sometimes.
07:44:25 But I 100% agree with you, because even if this
07:44:29 emergency reserve is not good enough, should we have
07:44:32 some horrible catastrophe, at least we have eight that
07:44:35 perhaps we wouldn't if we cut it to four.
07:44:36 And on and on from there.
07:44:38 So I don't know, colleagues, but if you all are going
07:44:41 to go item by item, I don't think this is the time to
07:44:44 do it.
07:44:46 We have a whole room of people that might particularly
07:44:48 be here for something else.
07:44:50 How long are we going to keep them?
07:44:54 >> Darrell Smith, Chief of Staff.
07:44:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Excuse me, my hand was up and
07:44:57 Mr. Smith was not standing at the podium.
07:45:00 I don't know who gets preference.
07:45:01 >>ROSE FERLITA: Let me answer that.
07:45:02 You do.
07:45:06 >> You're a Council member.
07:45:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
07:45:07 Excuse me, Mr. Smith, we're not children, but we're
07:45:11 acting like children.
07:45:13 We're acting like children.
07:45:15 The one thing that we have the authority to do is to
07:45:18 work on the budget.
07:45:21 And that's what we're doing tonight.
07:45:23 The zonings can wait.
07:45:25 They can be continued to tomorrow or another day.
07:45:30 They can, because we continue zonings.
07:45:32 And if that has to happen, fine.
07:45:34 But this is our primary responsibility of the year.
07:45:38 This is it.
07:45:39 And the buck stops here.
07:45:41 And Rose, I think we're agreeing on a lot of stuff
07:45:44 The big stuff, but I don't believe we can just keep
07:45:47 bouncing this Ping-Pong ball back and forth to the
07:45:50 The administration has worked hard as heck.
07:45:52 Anybody here worked hard as heck for the last two weeks
07:45:55 from the administration?
07:45:57 I see hands out there.
07:45:59 The bottom line is they worked hard -- they've worked
07:46:02 very hard to give us their best shot.
07:46:05 And this is their best shot.
07:46:06 Now we can take their best shot.
07:46:08 We still, because we're grown-ups and the buck stops
07:46:12 here, we can disagree with that.
07:46:15 We can find items, as Mr. Harrison has, as I have, and
07:46:18 maybe you have, too, we can find items and we can just
07:46:21 make the changes and take it out of those contingency
07:46:24 Then during the year, I could ask Mr. Stefan, how many
07:46:28 budgets amendments does he process to this Council week
07:46:31 in and week out?
07:46:34 We get one or two every single week because that's what
07:46:38 they do.
07:46:39 I am not criticizing you, Jim, that's part of what you
07:46:42 You move money around.
07:46:43 When issues arise, you move things here, move things
07:46:46 Take things from contingency, put things in
07:46:49 That's what you do.
07:46:49 If we just get this done tonight to the tune of,
07:46:53 probably going to approach a million dollars, as Bonnie
07:46:56 We could split it between those two funds, and then
07:46:59 we're done with it tonight.
07:47:00 We put it to bed, and then they have the rest of the
07:47:05 year to play the musical games and shell games, that's
07:47:11 what they are paid to do.
07:47:13 I'm sorry I raised my voice.
07:47:16 We have to put this to bed and be done with it tonight.
07:47:21 >>ROSE FERLITA: That's fine in a perfect world,
07:47:23 Mr. Dingfelder.
07:47:24 I'm not at all advocating that we Ping-Pong this back
07:47:26 to them.
07:47:27 I am just simply saying that just like all of us spent
07:47:30 a lot of time on our own to try to decide what the best
07:47:33 cuts were, I thought that perhaps someplace in those
07:47:37 $28.7 million that was added to the current budget
07:47:41 there might be something that was less painful.
07:47:43 Now, I don't want to continue it, but I don't want to
07:47:46 leave it in a condition that I'm not going to support
07:47:49 just to get this out of the way.
07:47:51 You may be here longer than I am, but before I leave, I
07:47:54 want to make sure that my responsibility in terms of
07:47:57 looking in this budget and feeling good about what I
07:48:00 did subsequent to the motion that I made to decrease
07:48:02 the millage is appropriate, is a responsible move, and
07:48:06 is whole.
07:48:07 I can't do that without looking at this.
07:48:10 And we can do this and I will sit with you all night
07:48:13 and we're going to be just as adult because us arguing
07:48:15 back and forth makes no sense for us or for them or for
07:48:18 anybody else.
07:48:19 But what I'm saying is, so far, based on the rules of
07:48:21 the game that you guys have started, I am not going to
07:48:25 agree to take any of the money out of reserves.
07:48:27 I am not going -- that's my opinion.
07:48:29 I think it's a dangerous precedent to set.
07:48:32 That's my opinion.
07:48:33 It doesn't count any more than yours does.
07:48:35 Each of us agreed that we have an opinion.
07:48:37 And what the consensus is rules.
07:48:41 I agree with Ms. Wise.
07:48:43 I appreciate the value of what she has told me one on
07:48:50 one two days ago.
07:48:51 I'm very, very comfortable reducing that.
07:48:54 At the same time, I'm just as uncomfortable looking at
07:48:55 the nonprofits and continuing to cut what they
07:48:59 I don't need a wave of hands about who had a worked
07:49:02 Everybody has.
07:49:03 We have, they have.
07:49:04 Everybody involved in the process.
07:49:05 But they came back with a product that I don't
07:49:07 completely like.
07:49:07 So it's fine, about you what I'm telling you based on
07:49:10 what we've already said, I can't support where we're
07:49:14 And it's fine.
07:49:18 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I think we ought to give it the ol'
07:49:21 college try.
07:49:22 If we don't have four votes, we don't have four votes.
07:49:24 What happens then, we're under the existing tentative
07:49:28 budget that we passed two weeks ago and all of these
07:49:31 cuts came from the emergency reserve, which we now know
07:49:34 at least 1.2 million don't have to come from anywhere.
07:49:40 It's literally found money on the union contract, the
07:49:46 actuarial studies.
07:49:47 So I do think -- I don't like your suggestion,
07:49:51 Mr. Dingfelder that we vote individually line item by
07:49:54 line item.
07:49:54 Why don't we just each go through what we -- we want to
07:49:58 see changed out of this list and maybe we'll cobble
07:50:01 together something that four of us can all live with
07:50:08 and then through the course of the year, the
07:50:09 administration will look at this budget year as it
07:50:11 unfolds and we'll say, we can put some money back into
07:50:15 We can put a little bit back into that emergency
07:50:17 Maybe there are some things we can do, but we got to do
07:50:20 something tonight.
07:50:26 If we try to go line item by line item through this
07:50:29 budget tonight and find places to take it from other
07:50:31 than the contingencies, we'll never accomplish what we
07:50:34 need to tonight.
07:50:34 >>GWEN MILLER: We all know this is an important thing
07:50:37 we have to do tonight.
07:50:37 The budget is the most important thing we ever do in
07:50:40 City Council.
07:50:40 We don't need to go back and forth where we are going
07:50:43 to get the money from.
07:50:44 We lower the millage, we know we have to get it from
07:50:48 I think we need to come together, let's decide where
07:50:50 we're going to go, because like you said, each
07:50:52 department has worked really hard and I know they are
07:50:55 They want to see where they have to go from here, where
07:50:58 we are going to send them.
07:50:59 We need to give them some direction tonight.
07:51:01 Because going back and forth and back and forth is not
07:51:04 And this is a very important thing that we're doing.
07:51:06 And I think we need to just go ahead and take care of
07:51:09 what we have to do and do a good job doing it.
07:51:16 Mr. Smith, we'll hear what you have to say --
07:51:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to request a process
07:51:21 question, and that is each Council person after
07:51:23 Mr. Smith talks gets to present the things that they
07:51:26 would like to see either reinstated or taken out.
07:51:32 We each go around and present our own thing and then we
07:51:35 see if we can come to consensus, but that you try to
07:51:41 make the conversation concise.
07:51:42 I empower you to give us two minutes.
07:51:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Let's hear from Mr. Smith.
07:51:48 >> Darrell Smith, the Chief of Staff.
07:51:50 I just wanted to reiterate the work that the
07:51:53 administration has put into preparing the proposed
07:51:57 reductions provided to Council Monday of this week in
07:52:01 quite detailed fashion.
07:52:03 And the experience and the knowledge that went into
07:52:11 preparing those budget reductions, I would encourage
07:52:14 you to give a great deal of credibility to.
07:52:18 And I would strongly encourage you to continue the
07:52:23 process tonight and resolve the budget.
07:52:25 I think it would be a terrible message to send to our
07:52:27 community that we as an administration and a Council
07:52:31 cannot stay here as long as it takes tonight to get
07:52:33 that job done.
07:52:35 Thank you.
07:52:35 >>GWEN MILLER: I agree with you, Mr. Smith.
07:52:37 We are now going to start working on that.
07:52:39 We'll come to a consensus and we'll complete this
07:52:41 budget tonight.
07:52:47 We're not going to take item by item.
07:52:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm going to follow Ms. Saul-Sena's
07:52:53 And I'm going to add to or detract from Mr. Harrison's
07:52:57 I think we should do -- I think we should put back in
07:53:00 the $60,000 ombudsman which would change that first
07:53:04 line item to 82,298.
07:53:06 I agree with what Mr. Harrison said on the parks, the
07:53:12 next three items, the parks, the art reach, the parks
07:53:16 and reduced hours on College Hill pool.
07:53:19 Those next three.
07:53:21 I won't even say what I agree with.
07:53:24 I'll just say what I need to add in.
07:53:27 Going down under professional services, the second to
07:53:31 the last one is PW 0401201, that's the $50,000 that was
07:53:36 described as the -- Steve, help me out -- the TCA
07:53:43 study, I think that that $50,000 should go to the
07:53:47 impact fee study.
07:53:48 I think we have to do the impact fee study.
07:53:50 That is a money-maker for the city.
07:53:52 And I think that we should pull that one off the table
07:53:56 and give it back to Steve's department, transportation,
07:54:00 and let them use it.
07:54:01 If they don't need it for TCA study, let them use it
07:54:04 for impact fee study.
07:54:05 I agree with Mr. Harrison about the homeless coalition.
07:54:08 The demolition, which is contractual services halfway
07:54:12 down on the first page, CEO, 101, 1104, 53076 Curtis
07:54:20 seems to indicate he's okay with that.
07:54:22 I don't think we're hurting the community by
07:54:25 eliminating that, because they say that that's sort of
07:54:29 surplus over and above and we haven't hit that level
07:54:32 And Curtis is indicating that with a yes.
07:54:34 And I think the same thing might be true on the next
07:54:37 page of drug house demolition.
07:54:39 Nobody spoke to drug house demolition, but I'm going to
07:54:42 assume that that was -- I don't know what that was,
07:54:44 Bonnie, but you all didn't speak to that.
07:54:47 That's halfway down the page, MD0201101, that's
07:54:52 But if -- you don't need it.
07:54:56 Bonnie indicates we don't need it.
07:54:57 Mr. Harrison, I think that helps us if we pull that
07:55:00 check mark off of there.
07:55:03 The five pools open in the winter, the next item, we
07:55:06 have seven pools open in the winter.
07:55:08 Staff indicates we can get by with five and still be
07:55:11 geographically covered.
07:55:13 I think that's okay.
07:55:15 And so we could pull that one off.
07:55:17 And then I think we're all going to agree on the
07:55:22 So I'm good with that.
07:55:24 And the only other thing I'm going to throw in to the
07:55:27 equation and just really kick the hornet's nest, is I
07:55:30 think that Council, we have given ourselves a salary
07:55:35 increase for next year that's effective 01.
07:55:39 City Council salary increase.
07:55:40 And it's not huge, but, you know, it's sizable.
07:55:44 And I think -- I calculated this and, again, this is a
07:55:48 But I think that we can cut our salary by 2%, which is
07:55:54 10% of the increase, which amounts to $800 for next
07:56:01 It amounts to $805 per Council person less than what we
07:56:08 anticipated making starting next April.
07:56:13 It doesn't amount to a huge amount, but I think that
07:56:15 it's a good gesture.
07:56:17 I think that it's really important to know all those
07:56:19 people to know who are sitting out here, staff people
07:56:21 who work hard as heck in the community, we're spending
07:56:25 their tax money.
07:56:26 I think it's good that they know that we can cut our
07:56:28 own salary by something comparable to what we're asking
07:56:33 other departments to cut as well.
07:56:34 And in addition, we're also cutting pursuant to staff's
07:56:38 request, we're also cutting our travel budget by more
07:56:41 than a thousand dollars per Council person.
07:56:45 >> Which is a significant percentage.
07:56:48 >> Which is fine, almost $2,000, $1,787 per Council
07:56:53 So I'm okay with that.
07:56:55 When we get to the other -- when we get to the other
07:57:00 side of the equation, where are we going to get the
07:57:02 money from?
07:57:03 I'm also going to throw in the fact that Council -- we
07:57:05 could cut our salary 2% starting from April just for
07:57:10 That's all I have.
07:57:15 And the zoo.
07:57:17 The zoo -- the zoo, I think any other year we would
07:57:28 have been adding this in.
07:57:30 Now I think it's iffy because of everything else that's
07:57:32 going on.
07:57:33 But I think Lowry Park Zoo, which is still city
07:57:37 property, I think we should give them that $150,000 so
07:57:40 they can take that and leverage it into the several
07:57:44 million dollars that Craig Pugh and Lex Salisbury have
07:57:46 testified to is so important to the zoo.
07:57:48 If it was just $150,000 sitting by itself, it wouldn't
07:57:52 mean as much.
07:57:52 But it's 150,000 that they can turn into a million or
07:57:56 more dollars.
07:57:57 And I think that that's extremely, extremely important.
07:58:01 I think the zoo is a wonderful, wonderful asset.
07:58:04 So I think that's my laundry list.
07:58:10 Did you include the planting and beautification, any of
07:58:13 the park items?
07:58:19 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I did not take out the reduction in
07:58:21 planting upgrades and events.
07:58:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm okay with that.
07:58:29 >>KEVIN WHITE: One of the things I was looking at, I
07:58:31 see we have a cut in here for the poet laureate but I
07:58:34 didn't see any for the photo laureate.
07:58:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It's a completely different program.
07:58:40 >>KEVIN WHITE: I understand.
07:58:41 Still a program in itself.
07:58:42 It's only $600.
07:58:46 It's coming out of contractual services.
07:58:48 And the other -- a few of the others that I had were on
07:58:51 the list that Mr. Dingfelder just went over.
07:58:56 And some of the salaries and wages, these were neither
07:59:00 positions that were going to be eliminated or due to
07:59:04 come online.
07:59:04 I won't be here.
07:59:05 I don't have a dog in that fight, but I don't think
07:59:09 cutting Council salary is going to be -- is a feasible
07:59:15 I really don't.
07:59:16 I think Council deserves every penny that they work
07:59:20 We work hard.
07:59:24 Some of us up here won't even realize those.
07:59:26 And I'm one of those.
07:59:28 I won't even realize the increase.
07:59:30 But I do know what this Council does, and I do know the
07:59:33 hours that each and every one of us put in, at least on
07:59:36 a minimum basis.
07:59:37 And I think Council deserves every penny that they get.
07:59:40 And I would not be supportive of that.
07:59:43 >>GWEN MILLER: I agree, Mr. White, too, we've had a
07:59:46 hard fight with this, and we went through for how many
07:59:50 months to get to there and we finally got there.
07:59:52 I won't support it either.
07:59:55 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Thank you, Madam Chair.
07:59:56 And Mr. Dingfelder, I think you have your answer there.
07:59:58 That one will probably have to come off the table in or
08:00:00 the to put four votes together.
08:00:02 What I would suggest, though, when the new Council is
08:00:05 seated, that may very well be something that the
08:00:07 Council at that point can decide to do.
08:00:10 But I think what we're trying to do is get four votes
08:00:12 to move this off the dime here tonight and it doesn't
08:00:16 sound to me like that one really can be on the table.
08:00:19 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to scratch that and leave it for
08:00:21 next year.
08:00:24 >>KEVIN WHITE: Other than -- he had three of my main
08:00:28 And as well as the poet laureate I'd like to add on
08:00:35 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I had a question for you, Mr. White.
08:00:38 The two pools that will be closed, one of those is in
08:00:41 East Tampa.
08:00:41 >>GWEN MILLER: No, West Tampa.
08:00:43 Martin Luther King.
08:00:47 >>KEVIN WHITE: -- green is not open yet.
08:00:49 They are not completed with it.
08:00:50 Mr. Corrada, when is the expected date of the
08:00:53 completion of -- I think we are talking about next
08:00:56 summer coming online.
08:00:58 >> Yes, sir.
08:00:59 We're working on it already, but anticipate maybe a
08:01:07 >>SHAWN HARRISON: If everybody is comfortable with
08:01:09 those, those are fine.
08:01:10 >>KEVIN WHITE: Main thing was getting the building, we
08:01:13 did the ribbon cutting on that last Saturday.
08:01:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Any others you want to put back in and
08:01:18 pull out?
08:01:19 Are we going to make a motion to vote on all the
08:01:22 ones --
08:01:23 >>KEVIN WHITE: Figure out where we take the money from.
08:01:26 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Let's figure out the total first.
08:01:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I haven't said anything.
08:01:33 I think that I agree with everything that's been said.
08:01:36 I think it's miserable that we're in this position, but
08:01:40 since we're working towards some kind of consensus, I
08:01:42 agree with the things you have suggested adding back
08:01:44 in, including the money for the ombudsman.
08:01:48 >>SHAWN HARRISON: So then let me just try to go --
08:01:51 John, you want to go ahead so that somebody needs to
08:01:54 write these down.
08:01:56 We need to get a total.
08:01:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Unless Rose has any other specific
08:01:59 changes where you don't agree with what Shawn said or
08:02:02 what I said.
08:02:03 >>ROSE FERLITA: Not at this point.
08:02:05 I was listening.
08:02:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just as a recap, we're going to
08:02:12 need -- let's just put it this way, we're going to need
08:02:15 60,000 off of the first item, which is BC0201101, and
08:02:23 then the three PR items which Mr. Harrison has checked
08:02:28 are the 27,520.
08:02:31 The 55034, the 68244.
08:02:36 Then we go down to another PR, 18 sites instead of 24,
08:02:42 leave all 24.
08:02:43 That gives us 14708.
08:02:46 Going down to the homeless coalition, we'll add that
08:02:50 back in for 2750.
08:02:54 I didn't hear whole lot of comments on the impact fee
08:02:58 I don't know how you all feel about that.
08:03:00 I feel pretty strongly about it just after the
08:03:02 presentation we got the other day.
08:03:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The study that will allow us to
08:03:06 raise transportation impact fees.
08:03:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Right.
08:03:08 I would like to add that 50,000 back in and let
08:03:10 staff -- so that's a check mark there for the 50,000.
08:03:16 I'd like to eliminate the check mark under demolition
08:03:19 and securing which is the 53706.
08:03:23 The Mendez program is a check mark at 7500 which we'll
08:03:29 Mr. White indicated $600 poet laureate, he would like a
08:03:32 check mark there.
08:03:33 We'll add that 600 to our running total.
08:03:37 And then the last one, on the first page is 118209
08:03:41 maintenance of parks and ball fields.
08:03:43 Add that to our total with the check mark.
08:03:50 The next page, halfway down, direct house demolition,
08:03:55 you had a check mark.
08:03:56 I don't think we need the check mark.
08:03:58 Bonnie and Mr. Lane indicated that that one is out.
08:04:01 Take off the check mark.
08:04:03 I don't know where we ended up on the pools.
08:04:09 Five are okay.
08:04:10 We'll take off the check mark there.
08:04:13 Next page, eliminate -- leave the check mark, eliminate
08:04:19 the 134,206 for all those nonprofits.
08:04:24 And then where are we on the 150,000 for the zoo?
08:04:37 So that's the same line item for the zoo, which is line
08:04:41 item MD 0501101 and in addition to the 17,500, the zoo
08:04:50 would also get the 150,000 over and above that.
08:05:00 So, I've got a calculator, about but I don't know -- if
08:05:05 you all want to talk about where you want to get that
08:05:07 from, I'll add it up.
08:05:11 >> Roughly $800,000.
08:05:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Probably in that ballpark.
08:05:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to hear from
08:05:33 Ms. Wise -- if we were to say to you we want to take it
08:05:39 either from our reserve fund or our contingency fund,
08:05:45 which child do you love more?
08:05:47 It's a tough choice and I recognize that.
08:05:48 It's uncomfortable for me to be having this
08:05:51 But which would be -- do you think the more responsible
08:05:56 of the two choices?
08:06:00 >> It is a difficult question, as you say.
08:06:03 We did not believe that that was the right mechanism to
08:06:06 use or we would have suggested it in the first place.
08:06:10 Therefore, we recommended the changes that we did.
08:06:13 I feel like we're using our savings account to give
08:06:18 money to these certain areas.
08:06:20 The department spent so much time going through, and
08:06:23 this is what they recommended, and we give so much
08:06:26 money to the nonprofits who we love so dearly.
08:06:30 So I really -- I mean, they are both so critical to our
08:06:33 city needs or we wouldn't have suggested it in the
08:06:37 first place.
08:06:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, did that answer the question?
08:06:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It sounds to me like -- half from
08:06:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm almost there.
08:06:50 >>KEVIN WHITE: Mr. Smith, our City Attorney, just a
08:06:53 question for clarity when you were talking about
08:06:56 procedure a moment ago, I just want to make sure we're
08:06:59 on the right track.
08:07:00 Were we -- you were saying separate motions on
08:07:03 everything that we're doing.
08:07:04 Did we need to make a motion about where we wanted to
08:07:08 go and then vote on that and then come back and do a
08:07:12 separate motion on where we want to take the money
08:07:15 from, two separate entities like that or --
08:07:19 >>DAVID SMITH: What you should do at this juncture
08:07:22 since you already approved the millage, you're looking
08:07:24 at approving your final budget, what I would recommend
08:07:27 you do, you have both the changes in the accounts and
08:07:30 where the compensating changes are.
08:07:33 I think if I'm hearing correctly --
08:07:35 >>KEVIN WHITE: Two separate motions.
08:07:37 >>DAVID SMITH: No, you can do it in one if you get four
08:07:40 people to agree with both sides of that debiting.
08:07:48 >>ROSE FERLITA: Even if we don't have that, if I ask my
08:07:51 colleagues as a courtesy to do two separate motions, is
08:07:54 that problem from your standpoint?
08:07:56 One is to restore, which is what we've been doing, the
08:07:59 second vote to be taken to where it's going to be taken
08:08:02 from to balance the budget.
08:08:03 >>DAVID SMITH: There's nothing that prohibits that as
08:08:06 long as at the end of the process you end up with a
08:08:08 balanced budget that fits the millage.
08:08:10 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Madam Chair, I would afford our
08:08:13 colleague the opportunity to break it into two votes.
08:08:17 If you agree with the number, but you just don't agree
08:08:21 with where it comes from, that's -- I think that's
08:08:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would just request that
08:08:28 Ms. Ferlita, if you don't agree with that, come up with
08:08:30 another place to find $800,000.
08:08:32 >> ROSE FERLITA: Well, Ms. Saul-Sena, we are going to
08:08:34 try to get to where we need to be.
08:08:36 And I think I explained my situation.
08:08:38 So this is not a trick question.
08:08:40 I didn't get the information from Ms. Wise.
08:08:43 So I don't have the opportunity to resource and review
08:08:45 what I asked her for because probably she's been pretty
08:08:48 busy, and she wasn't able to line by line explain to me
08:08:51 where that $28.7 million addition had.
08:08:55 If I had the opportunity to look at that, which is what
08:08:57 I wanted to do and John had a better idea and you guys
08:09:00 supported it and I understand the process works, I
08:09:02 would be happy to.
08:09:03 But at this point, not giving that information, I think
08:09:05 Mr. Harrison's courtesy and Mr. White's question will
08:09:09 probably get us all to where we need to be and we'll
08:09:13 perhaps balance the budget this evening.
08:09:15 But I don't have the information.
08:09:16 That was the reason I was asking for the time frame to
08:09:18 So I'm sorry, I just don't have it now.
08:09:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder left --
08:09:26 >>SHAWN HARRISON: He's going to check numbers.
08:09:28 It's really not Mr. Dingfelder's obligation to check
08:09:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Well, tell Mr. Dingfelder to come back
08:09:34 It's not your obligation.
08:09:36 >>SHAWN HARRISON: We're Council members.
08:09:41 >>GWEN MILLER: We're going to have two separate votes.
08:09:43 First vote on the ones that we are putting back in.
08:09:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll give you a total.
08:09:48 And Mr. Stefan has a different total, I couldn't find
08:09:51 Anyway, he's probably gone off to the bar or something.
08:09:58 No, I'm just kidding.
08:10:00 Jim those that.
08:10:02 When Mr. Harrison got done, he was at 611,476.
08:10:06 We added a few things, substracted a few things.
08:10:09 Now at 688,771.
08:10:12 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to make a motion.
08:10:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's the deduction from the
08:10:18 Mayor's proposed 3352846.
08:10:26 >> That restores the zoo funding to the full $500,000.
08:10:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Zoo funding gets the 150 back.
08:10:31 It takes away all the cuts to the nonprofits and
08:10:34 everything else we talked about.
08:10:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Would you make the motion,
08:10:37 Mr. Dingfelder?
08:10:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yeah.
08:10:39 I'll move that we adjust those line items, line item by
08:10:42 line item to the tune of 688,771 -- and let me split
08:10:47 that in half.
08:10:50 Anyway, that's the motion for now.
08:10:52 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
08:10:54 Question on the motion.
08:10:55 Ms. Saul-Sena.
08:10:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
08:10:57 I still strongly disagree with the millage, but I do
08:11:00 agree that these reinstatements little less
08:11:04 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion, aye.
08:11:06 Opposed, nay.
08:11:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Jim, did you have the same number as
08:11:14 me, 688,771.
08:11:18 Oh, good.
08:11:19 Then splitting that in half, 344385 and 50 cents.
08:11:29 $344,385.50 each from the general contingency fund, is
08:11:37 that what we call it?
08:11:38 And the emergency contingency fund.
08:11:42 Emergency reserve fund.
08:11:51 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion aye.
08:11:52 >>ROSE FERLITA: Just on the record again, I agree with
08:11:55 the cuts however I disagree with my colleagues on where
08:11:58 this should be taken because I think that's a dangerous
08:12:01 precedent to set so I vote no.
08:12:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: With that I think we have a balanced
08:12:07 >> Not quite.
08:12:08 Good evening, David Smith.
08:12:10 What you need to do and Mr. Stephen is in the process
08:12:13 of preparing it.
08:12:14 He will bring back a revised exhibit.
08:12:16 You will have to adopt the ordinance with the revised
08:12:21 Then you have completed your process.
08:12:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Can we do number two?
08:12:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We can approve the CIP budget.
08:12:38 >> Approve the CIP budget with the ordinance, that way
08:12:40 you're done.
08:12:41 We'll have one more vote on the budget.
08:12:43 You'll have the revised budget.
08:12:46 You'll approve the ordinance, and with the CIP.
08:13:02 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Can't do any more on the budget right
08:13:06 >> I believe they have --
08:13:07 >>GWEN MILLER: We're going to take a five-minute
08:37:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Tampa City Council is called back to
08:37:29 Roll call.
08:37:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
08:37:33 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Here.
08:37:33 >>ROSE FERLITA: Here.
08:37:35 >>KEVIN WHITE: Here.
08:37:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
08:37:40 This morning, we had some business that we didn't
08:37:42 We're going to bring it back tonight and finish it up.
08:37:44 >>THE CLERK: This morning, Council had a public hearing
08:37:53 on V06-46, and they requested the ordinance be prepared
08:37:57 and come back this evening.
08:37:59 I do have the ordinance and it's available for first
08:38:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. White, do you want to read that?
08:38:07 >>KEVIN WHITE: Move an ordinance approving special use
08:38:09 permit S-2 approving a church in an RS-50 residential
08:38:12 single-family zoning district in the general vicinity
08:38:15 of 1745, 1746, 1747, 1901, 1902 and 1906, 1908 from
08:38:23 1910 LaSalle Street and 1911 and 1917 Arch Street in
08:38:28 the City of Tampa, Florida, as more particularly
08:38:29 described in section one hereof, reducing the required
08:38:32 parking spaces from 90 to 69, reducing the required
08:38:37 yard setbacks from 40 feet to 20 feet.
08:38:39 The North setback from 40 feet to 15 feet.
08:38:42 The South setback from 40 feet to 10 feet for the West
08:38:46 setback allowing for grass parking and spaces with the
08:38:51 exception of the drive aisle and handicap parking
08:38:54 allowing direct access to local roads, providing an
08:38:57 effective date.
08:38:59 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
08:39:00 All in favor, aye.
08:39:01 Opposed, nay.
08:39:05 >>THE CLERK: The other item, Council requested a
08:39:07 resolution setting the public hearing on the dog family
08:39:10 restaurant this evening.
08:39:11 They have the resolution that is setting the public
08:39:14 hearing for October 26th at 10 a.m., November 16th
08:39:17 at 5:30 p.m.
08:39:18 >> So moved.
08:39:19 >> Second.
08:39:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Have a motion and second.
08:39:21 All in favor of the motion, aye.
08:39:23 [Motion Carried]
08:39:23 >>THE CLERK: And that's all the new business we had
08:39:26 this morning.
08:39:27 >>GWEN MILLER: We'll go to our zonings, go to the ones
08:39:28 that we're going to continue.
08:39:31 >> Good evening, Council, Abbye Feeley, Land
08:39:35 I'd like to go through the agenda on each of the items
08:39:37 that are looking to be continued.
08:39:42 Item number 8, file ZO6-44 that petition cannot move
08:39:49 forward and needs to be amended.
08:39:51 We would like to reschedule for January 25th.
08:39:54 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
08:39:56 All in favor of the motion, aye.
08:39:58 >> I'm sorry, Council.
08:40:01 When you say can't go forward, does that mean it's a
08:40:03 request of petitioner to have that continued?
08:40:06 >> Yes, what happened was, when the petitioner
08:40:09 originally submitted, it was him and another property
08:40:14 Now what has happened since the time of the petition,
08:40:16 it changed property owners so it can't move forward the
08:40:20 way it currently is and has to be amended.
08:40:22 >> Would it need to be readvertised?
08:40:24 >> Yes.
08:40:26 >> Okay.
08:40:26 I'm sorry.
08:40:32 >> Item number 11, file number Z 06-47, I believe that
08:40:38 you received written correspondence from Mr. Michelini
08:40:41 this morning requesting a continuance to the
08:40:44 December 14, 2006 for that case.
08:40:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: How many times has this been
08:40:53 >> This will be the fourth continuance on this case.
08:40:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay.
08:40:57 I would just like to note that this is the fourth
08:40:59 continuance, and I think if they can't bring it forward
08:41:02 in December, I think you said, that -- I don't know,
08:41:07 they have to start from scratch.
08:41:11 Do -- Mr. Shelby, do we have any official rule or is
08:41:15 it -- how many continuances?
08:41:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe the charter -- excuse me,
08:41:23 the code, Ms. Coyle and I have been discussing the --
08:41:28 as to number of continuances.
08:41:30 We've been working to ways we can possibly address.
08:41:33 Council normally had a custom of three continuances.
08:41:36 And that is not codified.
08:41:38 Is Mr. Bentley the petitioner?
08:41:40 >> No, it's Mr. Michelini, and he's not present.
08:41:48 >>ROSE FERLITA: I do have a letter from Mr. Michelini
08:41:51 that explains the circumstances if somebody would like
08:41:54 me to read it.
08:41:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I don't think that's necessary.
08:41:58 I just want to say that when it comes back in December,
08:42:01 which will be the fourth time, I think that should be
08:42:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Do we have a motion to continue it then?
08:42:07 We have a motion and second.
08:42:09 All in favor of the motion, aye.
08:42:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just before you take a vote, just ask
08:42:13 if there's anybody in the audience who wishes to speak
08:42:16 to that continuance?
08:42:18 >> Anyone in the public who wants to speak on item
08:42:21 number 11 being continued?
08:42:26 >>KEVIN WHITE: I don't have a problem with this, but
08:42:28 since this is the fourth continuance, do you think
08:42:32 might want to ask the petitioner to renotice since this
08:42:34 is the fourth time --
08:42:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: People might have lost track.
08:42:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY: When was the first time this was
08:42:40 heard, if you have that information?
08:42:43 >> February 3rd was the first time this case was
08:42:46 scheduled for hearing.
08:42:52 >>MARTIN SHELBY: So the motion would be to request the
08:42:55 petitioner to renotice?
08:42:59 The issue, Council, I just want to bring to your
08:43:02 attention, the code does make specific reference to the
08:43:04 fact that a petitioner requesting a continuance is
08:43:07 required to appear when it's scheduled.
08:43:11 It's very difficult, I guess with knowing
08:43:13 Mr. Michelini, I guess that message will be relayed to
08:43:16 him but just to bring to Council's attention that is in
08:43:18 the code.
08:43:19 I don't have it in front of me so I can't cite chapter
08:43:22 and verse, but it's one of those things that it makes
08:43:24 at a lot easier when the petitioner is here or their
08:43:27 representative and you can address them directly.
08:43:29 >> I did advise Mr. Michelini of that yesterday
08:43:32 afternoon when he discussed a continuance with me and
08:43:34 let him know that he would need to be present.
08:43:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Shelby, how would you advise us
08:43:45 to act?
08:43:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Well, if I can just confer with
08:43:48 Ms. Cole for just a minute.
08:43:51 If we can pass this by and have my codebook back, I
08:43:53 would appreciate it.
08:44:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to play by the rules.
08:44:11 >>GWEN MILLER: That's the only thing about renotice.
08:44:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Well, if somebody has to be here --
08:44:18 we haven't voted.
08:44:19 Well, I move to reopen this while our attorney looks
08:44:22 into the validity of our vote.
08:44:28 The rules say that the petitioner has to be present to
08:44:31 request a continuance.
08:44:36 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Why don't we pass over and when the
08:44:38 attorney has an opinion, we'll come back.
08:44:41 >> Item number 13, file number Z06-86, like to be
08:44:45 continued to November 30th.
08:44:48 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to open the public hearing.
08:44:50 We have a motion and second to open item number 13.
08:44:53 All in favor, aye.
08:44:55 Anyone in the public want to speak on the continuance
08:44:57 of item number 13?
08:45:02 >>THE CLERK: That's November 30th.
08:45:04 Right now, you have one continued land use zoning and
08:45:06 they have not set the other ones yet.
08:45:09 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
08:45:10 All in favor of the motion, aye.
08:45:12 [Motion Carried]
08:45:15 >> Item number 15, Z06-37, I would like to also
08:45:20 continue that case to -- the petitioner would like to
08:45:23 continue that case to November 30th.
08:45:25 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to open the public hearing.
08:45:27 We have a motion and second.
08:45:28 All in favor of the motion, aye.
08:45:30 Is there anyone in the public who wants to speak on the
08:45:32 continuance of item number 15?
08:45:34 Anyone want to speak on the continuance of item 15.
08:45:38 Need a motion to continue.
08:45:39 We have a motion and second.
08:45:41 All in favor, aye.
08:45:42 [Motion Carried]
08:45:44 >> The last one is item number 16, file number Z06-101.
08:45:48 Would like to continue that case to October 12th.
08:45:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Need to open the public hearing.
08:45:53 Have a motion and second.
08:45:55 All in favor of the motion, aye.
08:45:57 [Motion Carried]
08:45:57 Is there anyone in the public who wants to speak on the
08:46:00 continuance on item number 16?
08:46:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Wait, I have a question.
08:46:06 How many petitions do we have on the 12th?
08:46:13 >> That actually took the space of another one that had
08:46:16 >>GWEN MILLER: We need a motion to continue.
08:46:18 We have a motion and second.
08:46:19 All in favor of the motion, aye.
08:46:21 [Motion Carried]
08:46:24 >> Did you do the ones requesting to be withdrawn as
08:46:27 >> I did not.
08:46:29 >> Item 6 is asking to withdraw and also item 7.
08:46:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 6, all in favor of the
08:46:37 motion, aye.
08:46:37 Opposed, nay.
08:46:41 Number 7, need a motion on that one.
08:46:43 Have a motion and second.
08:46:44 All in favor, aye.
08:46:45 [Motion Carried]
08:46:46 Mr. Shelby, you found out number 11.
08:46:50 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, Council, 27395 sub B appearance
08:46:54 by applicant, the applicant or his authorized agent
08:46:56 shall appear in support of his application at the
08:46:59 public hearing.
08:46:59 Failure to do so in the absence of good cause --
08:47:03 failure to do so shall be grounds for denial of the
08:47:06 application in the absence of good cause shown.
08:47:09 And it says any application for rezoning -- I don't
08:47:12 know if that was changed -- that might have been done
08:47:15 under the new ordinance.
08:47:16 But that's 27-395.
08:47:19 And I don't know what -- I'm sorry, I am not privy to
08:47:22 Mr. Michelini's letter.
08:47:24 I can't state as to what the reason was in his letter.
08:47:35 >> Mr. Shelby, you are saying it can be grounds for
08:47:48 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry, Council.
08:47:50 Just for the sake of the changes to chapter 27, let me
08:47:52 read the full corrected version.
08:47:53 After that statement, 27-395, sub B, I'm sorry I read
08:48:06 under the previous code that had not been updated in
08:48:09 the book yet.
08:48:11 I apologize.
08:48:11 Appearance by applicant, the applicant or his
08:48:14 authorized agent shall appear in support of his
08:48:16 application at the public hearing.
08:48:18 Failure to so appear shall be grounds for denial of the
08:48:21 application in the absence of good cause shown.
08:48:24 Any application for rezoning shall be scheduled for two
08:48:29 public hearings.
08:48:32 So that's the corrected version.
08:48:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Michelini wrote.
08:48:41 I'll just briefly paraphrase it.
08:48:42 Due to a number of technical changes by city staff we
08:48:46 request continuance to December 14th.
08:48:48 We discussed this matter with staff. They have no
08:48:50 No objections from neighboring property owners.
08:48:52 We greatly appreciate your assistance.
08:48:55 There have been other continuances, but they have for
08:48:58 the most part involved traffic --
08:49:06 I don't have a problem, I think he's made good cause
08:49:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you think he need to renotice?
08:49:18 >> Yes.
08:49:18 >> We have a motion and second.
08:49:19 All in favor of the motion, aye.
08:49:22 Are we ready to open number 9?
08:49:30 Number 5.
08:49:31 I thought we got rid of all those.
08:49:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to open number 5.
08:49:43 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The preliminary matters, with regard
08:49:47 to any written communications that have been available
08:49:51 for public inspection at Council's office, I ask they
08:49:54 be received and filed into the record at this time.
08:49:57 Do you have anything to file?
08:50:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public going to
08:50:04 speak on items 5, 9, 10, 12 and 14, will you please
08:50:11 stand and raise your right hand.
08:50:21 (Oath administered by clerk).
08:50:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just a motion to receive and file,
08:50:26 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
08:50:28 All in favor of the motion, aye.
08:50:29 [Motion Carried]
08:50:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.
08:50:31 Very briefly, if any member of council has had ex parte
08:50:35 communication please disclose with whom and the
08:50:37 substance of the communication prior to a vote.
08:50:38 Finally, ladies and gentlemen, to move things along,
08:50:40 when you state your name, please reaffirm you have been
08:50:43 I'll put up a little sign that will remind you.
08:50:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
08:50:46 Let's open number five.
08:50:48 We have a motion and second to open number five.
08:50:49 All in favor of the motion, aye.
08:50:51 [Motion Carried]
08:51:01 >> Good evening, Council.
08:51:10 Abbye Feeley, Land Development, I have been sworn.
08:51:17 The case is Z 06-27, located at 6401 Nebraska Avenue.
08:51:28 The petitioner -- there are four waivers -- I'm sorry.
08:51:32 This property is going from CI commercial intensive and
08:51:36 residential single-family to planned development
08:51:39 There are four waivers associated with the petition.
08:51:42 One to allow nonresidential vehicle access to North
08:51:46 street, which is classified as a local street.
08:51:49 Two to reduce the landscape buffer between vehicular
08:51:52 use area and the public right-of-way from eight feet to
08:51:54 five feet, which in lieu payment is required.
08:51:59 Three to reduce the buffer between commercial and
08:52:01 residential property from 15 to 10 feet.
08:52:03 And four to allow planting of four magnolia trees in
08:52:08 lieu of the masonry wall between commercial and
08:52:11 residential property.
08:52:11 The petitioner is proposing to rezone the property at
08:52:14 6401 Nebraska Avenue to planned development to
08:52:17 construct 2,800-square-foot restaurant and bar and to
08:52:22 establish a 60 by 136.5 feet residential lot at the
08:52:28 East end of the property.
08:52:30 Setbacks for the site include 25 feet front.
08:52:33 20 side, and 20 rear.
08:52:35 The property is located in the Seminole Heights overlay
08:52:38 district and the site is subject to comply with the
08:52:40 overlay standards for the residential lot to the East.
08:52:43 The proposed plan requires 23 parking spaces and the
08:52:50 petitioner is providing 25 spaces including nine
08:52:53 compact spaces for a total of 36.
08:52:57 The compact spaces on this site were necessary due to a
08:53:00 grant tree which I'm about to show you that's in the
08:53:02 center of the site that they have now redesigned the
08:53:07 restaurant around this grand tree in order to preserve
08:53:09 it and to maintain the required protective radius
08:53:12 around the tree.
08:53:13 The current plan design incorporates retention of this
08:53:16 grand tree.
08:53:17 We do have some objections to the plan.
08:53:21 Let me just show you.
08:53:24 This is the site on Nebraska Avenue and North street.
08:53:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Excuse me, didn't we have a rezoning
08:53:37 on this site a couple of years ago?
08:53:39 >> There was a special use petition on this site that
08:53:42 was trying to put a car wash on this site.
08:53:45 And because of the grand tree and the required
08:53:48 protective radius, we weren't allowed.
08:53:50 They had some issues with that.
08:53:52 So they came back.
08:53:53 They have now redesigned the project as a restaurant,
08:53:56 incorporating and retaining the grand tree.
08:54:02 Here are some pictures of the site looking East from
08:54:05 Nebraska Avenue.
08:54:06 You can see the grand tree.
08:54:09 And this is looking North from "A" street -- I mean,
08:54:13 from North street.
08:54:15 There is a parking lot located to the South of the
08:54:20 site, and to the East of the site it leads into a
08:54:25 residential area, residential neighborhood.
08:54:28 Here is one more picture of the grand tree.
08:54:31 It suffered some cuttings over the years, but still
08:54:35 hanging on.
08:54:37 Our objections were related -- transportation had an
08:54:41 objection related to the calculation of parking that
08:54:46 needed to be revised.
08:54:48 And we also Land Development coordination had
08:54:51 objections with the elevations.
08:54:53 They are labeled incorrectly.
08:54:56 They also, as you can see in your packages, the
08:54:59 elevations of the corner of the intersection of
08:55:02 Nebraska and North are very barren.
08:55:04 There are no windows.
08:55:05 This is actually what the neighbors would be seeing
08:55:08 when they pull into the property and what they would be
08:55:11 seeing as they head North on Nebraska.
08:55:13 So we really feel that needs to be revised in order to
08:55:16 incorporate some architectural features to make that a
08:55:19 little more pleasing as they pull into that property.
08:55:25 Land Development coordination, landscape specialist,
08:55:28 you can see the objections on page two of the staff
08:55:33 report related to the tree table and the total number
08:55:36 of preserved on-site trees in the tree table.
08:55:40 It's mostly data.
08:55:42 There's just a couple of things that needed to be fixed
08:55:44 on this plan.
08:55:46 And again, the elevation.
08:55:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: If you look at the pattern of
08:55:55 development along Nebraska, most of the commercial
08:55:57 development appears to be not that deep and then you
08:55:59 have the residential development.
08:56:01 And this petition is going to the en-- for the entire
08:56:05 parcel to be PD including what looks like a proposal
08:56:08 for a residential portion to the East of it.
08:56:11 In terms of planning, in terms of protecting the
08:56:15 neighborhood to the East, wouldn't it be better if the
08:56:19 residential portion just stayed residential rather than
08:56:25 it going to a PD?
08:56:25 Because then in the future, somebody could look at that
08:56:26 and say, well, see how deep the commercial is.
08:56:29 You know what I'm saying?
08:56:31 >> The site plan does call for the residential portion
08:56:33 to remain developed under the RS-60 guideline.
08:56:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: In other words, the zoning doesn't
08:56:38 include the residential portion to the East?
08:56:40 >> It does, but it shows on the site plan that that
08:56:42 would be retained and developed as RS-60.
08:56:45 It doesn't have a site plan attributed on that area.
08:56:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So the PD is only for the commercial
08:56:52 portion and not for the residential portion.
08:56:54 >> It is for both sections.
08:56:56 It's for the entire site.
08:56:57 But then the parameters for the development of the
08:57:01 residential section will be under the -- will meet the
08:57:05 RS-60 requirement.
08:57:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Why not just leave that RS-60.
08:57:09 Wouldn't it be better protection as a planner?
08:57:14 >> This is how the petition came in.
08:57:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Do you understand my question,
08:57:23 It's about protecting the neighborhood to the --
08:57:25 >> Yes, ma'am.
08:57:26 They are going to have some buffering on the site to
08:57:28 transition from the restaurant use into the residential
08:57:33 neighborhood area.
08:57:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: More trees instead of a fence.
08:57:38 >> Actually, a buffer in between the restaurant site
08:57:41 and the house and then on the other side of the house
08:58:01 >> Tony Garcia, Planning Commission staff.
08:58:03 I have been sworn in.
08:58:06 A couple of additional comments to add on to
08:58:10 Ms. Feeley's comments.
08:58:12 The site is located in the hold Seminole Heights
08:58:14 Neighborhood Association boundaries.
08:58:16 There are two predominant land use categories in this
08:58:18 particular area.
08:58:19 Heavy commercial 24 along Nebraska Avenue, and, of
08:58:23 course, the orange color signifies the residential 10.
08:58:26 This probably works hand in hand to probably dovetail
08:58:30 into the question you had, Ms. Saul-Sena, regarding
08:58:32 from a planning perspective.
08:58:34 We know in these particular areas what a huge
08:58:37 transition there is in intensity from the commercial
08:58:39 corridors of Nebraska and Florida to the residential
08:58:42 And, of course, the neighborhood associations who are
08:58:44 very sensitive to that proper transition of intensity.
08:58:47 In this particular case, you'll see on the PD, we do
08:58:52 have a split land use designation of heavy commercial
08:58:55 24 and residential 10.
08:58:56 So, yes, that particular parcel is being integrated
08:58:59 into the PD as stated by Ms. Feeley.
08:59:03 However, this applicant will not have the ability to
08:59:06 put any kind of commercial structure because it is --
08:59:09 it still has to fall back on the underlying land use
08:59:13 category, which is residential 10, which only allows
08:59:15 single-family detached uses on the site to begin with
08:59:18 or potentially town homes.
08:59:20 But to do that, they have to come in for another PD, so
08:59:23 it's protected under that aspect.
08:59:25 Currently, that does actually provide an additional
08:59:28 There is an intention as you have seen stated on the
08:59:30 site plan in capital letters, that that site is going
08:59:33 to be retained for residential type of development
08:59:38 based on the lot size, which I think is about 60 feet
08:59:41 in width, that obviously would suit a single-family
08:59:44 detached residence, which I'm sure in the future when
08:59:48 this applicant decides to possibly come in and either
08:59:50 sell the piece and section it off for someone else or
08:59:53 develop it individually that that would probably have
08:59:55 to come in for consideration to be viewed by the
09:00:00 adjacent neighbors and, of course, the Neighborhood
09:00:03 So there are several protections there for the area as
09:00:08 far as residential protection.
09:00:14 Here is the aerial.
09:00:16 I'm sure we're all very familiar with these corridors
09:00:20 and how this particular area as you all know very well
09:00:23 has been longing for some additional neighborhood
09:00:26 serving uses along the lines of something like this,
09:00:30 which can be a community type of restaurant, which I
09:00:32 know that they are deficient in this particular area in
09:00:39 The Planning Commission staff has no objections to the
09:00:41 proposed request and finds that the proposed request
09:00:44 would definitely follow suit with the requirements and
09:00:49 with the needs of this particular association.
09:00:53 Thank you.
09:00:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
09:01:06 Is the petitioner here for item number 5?
09:01:10 >>ROSE FERLITA: Mr. Garcia, you found it consistent for
09:01:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Let's continue this until petitioner
09:01:17 shows up.
09:01:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Do we get a second?
09:01:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Continue it for a month until the
09:01:29 petitioner shows up.
09:01:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public who came
09:01:32 to speak for or against item number 5?
09:01:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: There has to be somebody or you deny
09:01:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Let's make a motion.
09:01:52 >> I would like to move it to the next available night.
09:01:55 >>GWEN MILLER: What's the next available night?
09:02:09 >> I'm very surprised she didn't --
09:02:11 >> Maybe they were here and they couldn't take any more
09:02:19 This case has been misnoticed twice.
09:02:25 >> Whose fault?
09:02:26 Staff's fault or petitioner's fault?
09:02:29 >> I'm just taking over the case, but it was once on
09:02:33 the petitioner's behalf and once on the city's behalf.
09:02:36 The petitioner also missed the development review
09:02:39 committee meeting on this one.
09:02:41 On this petition.
09:02:47 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I don't want anybody to accuse me of
09:02:52 treat building Michelini any different than any other.
09:02:55 I reference section 27-395 regarding the appearance by
09:02:58 applicant subsection B.
09:03:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Michelini submitted a letter.
09:03:04 And this person has not submitted a letter.
09:03:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And Council found good cause shown as
09:03:09 a result of the letter.
09:03:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: As a result of this person not
09:03:13 showing up at the DRC meeting, not submitting a
09:03:16 letter --
09:03:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: There's been staff testimony that
09:03:20 there is a shortage of restaurants in this area and
09:03:23 it's better than a car wash and I'm just thinking --
09:03:28 just continue it till January or whatever is fine.
09:03:32 But at least give them an opportunity to keep it alive.
09:03:34 If they don't show up the next time, then it's dead and
09:03:43 >> November 16 is your plan amendment meeting.
09:03:48 It would be either December 14th or January 11th --
09:03:52 >> January 11th, 6 p.m.
09:03:54 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
09:03:55 All in favor of the motion?
09:03:58 >> Like to see --
09:04:05 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion, aye.
09:04:07 [Motion Carried]
09:04:10 >> Move to open number 9.
09:04:12 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
09:04:13 All in favor of the motion, aye.
09:04:20 [Motion Carried]
09:04:22 >> Petitioner here for number 9?
09:04:54 >> Petition number Z 06-99.
09:04:56 This is located at 5440 South MacDill Avenue.
09:05:00 The petitioner is requesting to rezone from RM-24,
09:05:04 residential multifamily and commercial general to
09:05:06 planned development multifamily.
09:05:13 The petitioner is proposing to rezone the property at
09:05:17 5440 South MacDill Avenue to convert an existing
09:05:20 58-unit apartment complex into 58 residential
09:05:25 All units are two bedroom and located in five two-story
09:05:29 Under current code standards, existing multifamily
09:05:32 complex is nonconforming to the required number of
09:05:34 offstreet parking spaces, site plan indicates 71
09:05:38 offstreet parking spaces are provided, including 58
09:05:42 residential spaces and 15 guest spaces.
09:05:44 This is a reduction of 31 spaces or 26% of the required
09:05:49 Really, it's a nonconforming use under the current
09:05:53 zoning in order for them to go condo, they are looking
09:05:55 to convert to PD in order to be a conforming use and
09:05:58 then be able to sell.
09:06:05 >> This is the site at South MacDill and it falls
09:06:07 in between Tyson avenue and Wallace avenue.
09:06:14 Here are some pictures.
09:06:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just a point of order.
09:06:18 This seems to be in the APZ.
09:06:25 Outside the APZ?
09:06:26 So it was not in the -- what's the word we use, not
09:06:30 moratorium, abatement zone.
09:06:32 Not in the abatement zone.
09:06:34 Carry on.
09:06:38 >> This is just some pictures of the existing
09:06:42 development looking South from Tyson and then again
09:06:47 looking from Tyson.
09:06:48 They are looking to gate the parking, the residential
09:06:54 parking that's associated with each -- they are going
09:06:57 to have two parking lots.
09:06:59 One will be for guest parking, one will be for the
09:07:01 They are going to gate the resident parking.
09:07:15 >> These are town homes to the West, and this is
09:07:17 looking at the property from MacDill facing South
09:07:21 and then looking down Tyson.
09:07:33 Transportation had objections with this petition.
09:07:37 They objected to not providing -- all the objections in
09:07:43 my staff report have been resolved except for one of
09:07:47 transportation's, which was the reduction in parking
09:07:49 spaces from 102 spaces to 71.
09:07:52 That's the only outstanding objection.
09:07:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My question is, how many units are
09:07:58 Are they one bedroom or two bedroom?
09:08:00 >> There are 58 units, and they are two bedroom each.
09:08:19 >> Tony Garcia, I have been sworn in.
09:08:21 To tail on to Ms. Feeley's comments, predominant land
09:08:25 use category, CMU-35 is a split use category.
09:08:30 CMU-35 and residential 35.
09:08:33 Basically as she said, the long and short of it is,
09:08:36 they want to go condo from apartments.
09:08:38 They are out of the -- they are clearly about two
09:08:41 blocks I think or three blocks North of the zones in
09:08:44 Mr. Dingfelder to answer your question, basically no
09:08:48 additional impacts to the area as far as the number of
09:08:50 units or number or potential impervious impacts to the
09:08:54 Planning Commission staff has no objection to the
09:08:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
09:09:06 >> Good evening, Ann POLAK with mechanic Nuccio.
09:09:10 305 South boulevard.
09:09:11 As has been stated, this is an existing project.
09:09:15 We are looking to convert it to condominium.
09:09:17 And in order to do so, we want to ensure that the
09:09:20 density is conforming.
09:09:23 And we're also clarifying consolidating the zoning
09:09:27 since as a result of the zoning conformance processes,
09:09:31 the zoning was -- it was split into the two zonings.
09:09:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have a question.
09:09:36 It seems pretty straightforward, but I just had a quick
09:09:40 What are you adding?
09:09:41 What are you taking away?
09:09:43 Are you adding any walls -- are there walls around this
09:09:46 Are you adding any walls?
09:09:49 >> We are not adding walls.
09:09:49 We are adding a gate.
09:09:51 We are not adding any buildings.
09:09:52 It would be the same number of units.
09:09:54 And I mean, really all we're working on is improving
09:09:59 the property in general, adding sidewalks on all four
09:10:02 sides instead of just along MacDill, which it
09:10:05 currently has, bettering the landscaping, making the
09:10:09 dumpster more attractive.
09:10:10 Sort of as part of the condo and the PD processes just
09:10:14 making it --
09:10:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No new wall on MacDill or
09:10:17 anything like that.
09:10:18 >> No.
09:10:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Saul-Sena.
09:10:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
09:10:21 My question is, is the parking currently adequate?
09:10:24 And perhaps rather than you answering, I would like to
09:10:28 see if there's somebody living there now that can
09:10:30 answer that.
09:10:31 You probably aren't familiar --
09:10:33 >> Well, we also have a representative from the
09:10:34 applicant, the developer.
09:10:36 There is currently one space per lot.
09:10:38 And that is part of the --
09:10:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Two-bedroom units.
09:10:43 >> Right.
09:10:44 One space per unit.
09:10:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What can they do?
09:10:46 They are already built.
09:10:47 >> Yeah, I mean, that's the thing.
09:10:49 They are already built.
09:10:50 There's never been a parking problem in the past.
09:10:53 This has been an apartment complex for about 20 years.
09:10:56 So we don't feel there really should be much of an
09:10:59 impact just by the fact of this PD and making it a
09:11:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Let me see if anyone in the public wants
09:11:05 to speak on it.
09:11:06 Anyone in the public want to speak on item number 9?
09:11:12 All in favor of the motion, aye.
09:11:13 [Motion Carried]
09:11:14 Ms. Ferlita, would you read that, please?
09:11:20 >>ROSE FERLITA: Move and ordinance rezoning property in
09:11:22 the general vicinity of 5440 South MacDill Avenue, City
09:11:25 of Tampa, Florida, more particularly described in
09:11:27 section 1 from zoning district classifications RM-24,
09:11:31 residential multifamily and CG commercial general to PD
09:11:35 planned development multifamily, providing an effective
09:11:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Have a motion and second.
09:11:40 All in favor of the motion, aye.
09:11:41 [Motion Carried]
09:11:42 >> Move to open number 10.
09:11:43 >> Second.
09:11:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Have a motion and second.
09:11:44 All in favor of the motion, aye.
09:11:46 [Motion Carried]
09:11:47 Number 10.
09:12:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Madam Chair, just as a point of
09:12:07 order, it appears that in my backup, I've received many
09:12:13 e-mails, 40 e-mails, and I'm confident that we've
09:12:17 provided those to the clerk as my assistant always
09:12:24 But I just wanted to make sure that that ex parte was
09:12:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have to put an ex parte
09:12:32 communication on the record.
09:12:34 I had a conversation with Carla Jiminez from ink wood
09:12:40 books about this.
09:12:40 We discussed the impact on her view of this because her
09:12:43 store is across Platt Street.
09:12:53 >> This case is Z 06-100, 301 South Moody Avenue.
09:12:58 The petitioner is looking to rezone from residential
09:13:01 multifamily and planned development to planned
09:13:03 development retail sales shoppers goods.
09:13:06 There are eight waivers associated with this petition.
09:13:10 The first is to reduce the 28% greenspace requirement
09:13:15 for the parking vehicle use area.
09:13:16 The second to reduce tree requirement of one per 1500
09:13:21 square feet vehicle use area from 10 trees to zero
09:13:26 Number three, 50% of the on-site shade trees to be
09:13:33 Number four, the removal of a grand tree and
09:13:36 replacement mitigation inch for inch.
09:13:38 Number five, to reduce the eight-foot vehicle use area
09:13:42 landscape buffer along Platt to zero feet.
09:13:45 Number 6, to allow nonresidential vehicle access to
09:13:48 Moody Avenue, which is classified as a local street.
09:13:51 Number seven, to reduce the number of parking spaces
09:13:54 from 213 to 200, which is approximately a 6% reduction.
09:13:59 And number 8, to reduce the required fence setback
09:14:02 along Platt from 12 feet to 10 feet.
09:14:09 The petitioner proposes to rezone the property at 301
09:14:11 South Moody to construct 53,084-square-foot grocery
09:14:16 store which stands three stories, 45 feet in height and
09:14:20 contains structured parking of 100 spaces and
09:14:24 400-square-foot cafe on the first floor, structured
09:14:27 parking of hundred spaces on the second floor and the
09:14:30 retail space of the grocery on the third floor.
09:14:32 All spaces provided in the garage are full-sized
09:14:36 There are no compact spaces to be provided.
09:14:39 Access to the store will be through a ground level
09:14:42 vestibule from West Azeele street and through the
09:14:44 parking garage.
09:14:45 The vestibule will contain four nine feet by six feet
09:14:50 elevators providing access to the third floor retail
09:14:54 Access to the store is also available through two
09:14:56 outside open air stairways on Azeele.
09:14:59 Vehicular access to the parking garage will be from
09:15:01 Moody Avenue.
09:15:03 The loading area for the store will be located on West
09:15:05 Platt Street.
09:15:08 The petitioner is providing eight-foot sidewalks on the
09:15:11 southern, eastern and western sides of the property and
09:15:13 six-foot sidewalk on the North side of the property.
09:15:16 Proposed setbacks include zero feet on the North which
09:15:19 is Platt Street.
09:15:20 Zero feet on the South which is Azeele street.
09:15:23 From nine foot to 18-foot on the East which is Moody
09:15:28 And 15-foot to 16-and-a-half foot on the West, which is
09:15:31 Armenia Avenue.
09:15:33 This proposed project is unique in nature and provide
09:15:36 one of the first truly urban grocery stores in Tampa
09:15:39 promoting neighborhood services with a pedestrian
09:15:42 The project design will incorporate architectural
09:15:45 features and elements of the surrounding community,
09:15:47 including characteristics of cigar factories, bungalows
09:15:51 and cracker style homes all part of the associated Hyde
09:15:54 Park area.
09:15:59 The current standing objections on this petition are
09:16:02 from transportation.
09:16:04 As you can see on page 2, they are objecting to the
09:16:08 access on Moody Avenue, and on couple of waivers and
09:16:14 notes associated with the plan.
09:16:17 As you can see on page 2 also are the purpose criteria
09:16:22 for the planned development.
09:16:23 And we've gone through each of those to show how this
09:16:27 project actually meets those criteria.
09:16:30 In addition, one other point that I would like to make
09:16:32 is that when this petition originally came in, the
09:16:36 retail was on the bottom floor.
09:16:39 Through the process of this petition, the petitioner
09:16:41 has been meeting with the Neighborhood Association in
09:16:44 order to discuss their desires for this parcel and
09:16:48 given the South Howard area, there's a large parking
09:16:51 problem down there.
09:16:52 The petitioner has been responsive to the Neighborhood
09:16:54 Association in looking at providing the parking on the
09:16:58 bottom floor and in discussions with the city on a
09:17:04 potential joint use agreement for that parking
09:17:06 structure in order to provide parking in the South
09:17:10 Howard area.
09:17:11 So that is why the retail was split.
09:17:14 Land Development would like to see the retail on the
09:17:16 bottom if that does come back, but I'd like to go
09:17:19 through some of the pictures associated with the
09:17:29 Here is the site.
09:17:30 Again, it would front on Azeele which is facing to the
09:17:33 south of the Zom project and access to the parking
09:17:38 garage would be here on South Moody Avenue.
09:17:40 The loading dock for the project is on West Platt
09:17:45 West Platt being a one-way.
09:17:46 The trucks would come in and then back up to use the
09:17:50 loading dock and then again use the one-way out.
09:18:05 Here is the current view from Platt Street.
09:18:16 And the view from South Moody.
09:18:23 This is Madison at SoHo which is on the Azeele Street
09:18:29 which is South of the property.
09:18:33 This is a view of the lot from Armenia.
09:18:40 And the view from Moody at the neighboring block to the
09:18:59 This is looking down Platt towards Armenia.
09:19:08 Here another view from Platt.
09:19:14 This is at the corner of Armenia and Platt.
09:19:16 There's the SoHo lofts there.
09:19:21 I think you guys are familiar with it.
09:19:30 Any questions with that?
09:19:40 The other thing I did want to submit were copies of the
09:19:43 letters of support for the project for the record.
09:19:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
09:19:46 I just had a question.
09:19:48 One of the waivers that was requested was a reduction
09:19:51 of trees from 10 to zero.
09:19:57 And there didn't seem to be any objection from parks.
09:20:00 And I wondered if they were making up for it some other
09:20:04 way, how come they didn't have a problem with that.
09:20:07 >> Yes, they have met with parks, and I can also let
09:20:13 Mary Danielewicz-Bryson speak to this.
09:20:14 They are doing some off-site mitigation at two of the
09:20:16 parks located within the district.
09:20:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Is that somewhere on the plan or
09:20:21 >> Yes, it's a note on the site plan.
09:20:22 I'll defer to Mary on that.
09:20:27 >> Mary Danielewicz-Bryson with Land Development
09:20:31 I have been sworn.
09:20:33 The petitioner has worked closely with the city to
09:20:36 mitigate the tree requirements through planting trees
09:20:40 in Bern's Park and Hyde Park, craft park.
09:20:45 They have provided extensive mitigation through the
09:20:48 tree trust fund and diverged it towards those two
09:20:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Are they paying into the greenspace
09:20:57 >> Yes, they are.
09:20:58 Yes, we are requiring them to do that.
09:21:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Good.
09:21:09 >> Tony Garcia, Planning Commission staff.
09:21:11 I have been sworn.
09:21:17 Illustrated here for your information is the future
09:21:21 land use map.
09:21:21 You have several land use categories in this area.
09:21:23 And what I would like to stress for this particular
09:21:27 project and its location, as you can see, this land use
09:21:30 category, here is Cleveland.
09:21:31 We know Kennedy is just a block North from Cleveland.
09:21:34 The land use category over here this really serves as a
09:21:37 gateway down into the SoHo area.
09:21:39 This land use category is urban mixed use 60.
09:21:42 One of the highest mixed use categories you have in
09:21:44 your comp plan category.
09:21:45 This pink color, which is predominant through the
09:21:49 entire area as you see is the community mixed use 35
09:21:52 land use designation.
09:21:53 Which is also the land use designation for the subject
09:21:57 This land use category is residential 35.
09:22:00 This is residential 20.
09:22:08 Looking at the area, what is significant about it that
09:22:12 you can see, the project itself does not directly
09:22:15 interface any traditional single-family detached
09:22:18 residential uses.
09:22:19 These are pretty much professional office uses that
09:22:23 directly abut the area for low density neighborhood
09:22:28 serving commercial uses.
09:22:29 You have the ZOM development down here which is an
09:22:34 intense residential development.
09:22:36 Also have multifamily uses here to the West.
09:22:39 You have some -- this is a duplex over here.
09:22:42 And I think this is the only residence that actually
09:22:44 going out and field checking it that I've actually seen
09:22:47 in the area.
09:22:48 But I don't know what the fate of this particular piece
09:22:50 of property is going to be.
09:22:51 Maybe Mr. Bentley can articulate that a little more and
09:22:56 provide you more information on that.
09:22:59 Platt, Azeele are known as collector roads on your
09:23:02 functional classification map.
09:23:04 Armenia and Howard are a part of your commercial
09:23:07 corridor, even as it extends down into the SoHo area.
09:23:13 The CMU designation, the proposed use is consistent and
09:23:17 follows the actual intent of what the community mixed
09:23:19 use 35 land use classification is asking for.
09:23:23 The connectivity to the front road system is logical,
09:23:30 providing something like this also will reduce internal
09:23:33 trip capture and will increase internal trip capture
09:23:36 and will reduce extensive trips for other people having
09:23:40 to go potentially to the other Publix, if they like --
09:23:45 out over on Neptune or if they prefer to go to the
09:23:49 Sweetbay a little further out.
09:23:50 This definitely will reduce any more lengthy trips
09:23:53 people may have that want to go ahead and shop at a
09:23:55 grocery store.
09:23:56 Since this does serve quite a few people in this
09:24:01 particular area, it will definitely reduce the
09:24:06 vehicular trips for the area.
09:24:07 Planning Commission staff has no objections to the
09:24:09 proposed request and finds it consistent with the
09:24:11 comprehensive plan.
09:24:12 >>GWEN MILLER: petitioner?
09:25:21 >> Good evening.
09:25:23 My name is Mark Bentley, 201 North Franklin street in
09:25:26 Tampa representing the petitioner.
09:25:27 I request that the composite exhibit that I supplied
09:25:29 also be received and filed.
09:25:31 At some point in time.
09:25:34 I'm here tonight on behalf of the applicant.
09:25:36 We're very excited to be here proposing to Council and
09:25:39 the City of Tampa this landmark project that will be
09:25:42 located in one of the gateways to what is known as the
09:25:45 SoHo area of Tampa.
09:25:48 The project will be -- we'll be discussing tonight --
09:25:51 and I'll be as brief as possible.
09:25:53 I think it's important that you have a semblance of the
09:25:55 history and the morphosis of the project over the last
09:26:00 six- or seven-month period in terms of how we try to
09:26:03 facility compromises between the various stakeholders
09:26:06 in the community.
09:26:07 But the project has been changing.
09:26:15 I think finally we got it to the point where to the
09:26:18 extent we can get people satisfied with the project
09:26:20 from the different areas of the community pretty well
09:26:25 I think you're probably going to hear some people, kind
09:26:27 of boils down to certain design issues tonight.
09:26:30 In any event, we've had participation by obviously the
09:26:33 city administration, city staff, the Neighborhood
09:26:37 Associations, specific residents and Publix itself.
09:26:43 So to the extent we could, we tried through balancing
09:26:48 various competing interests and I think at the end of
09:26:50 the day you'll see we really made a good-faith effort
09:26:52 to do that and it's culminated into a pretty good
09:26:55 project that's pretty sensitive to the location in this
09:26:58 vicinity of the City of Tampa.
09:27:02 The project is located at the corner of Armenia and
09:27:07 The project is truly an urban type project.
09:27:10 It's very unique, not only to Tampa but to the State of
09:27:13 I'll show you a couple of pictures.
09:27:15 This is the fourth Publix store that's actually
09:27:17 considered an urban type store.
09:27:19 We actually have self-contained parking in the store.
09:27:24 The store has received a lot of support from both staff
09:27:27 and the community.
09:27:28 You know, most communities desire this type of
09:27:31 Actually having a neighborhood grocery store, studies
09:27:35 have shown indicates a decrease in crime, increase in
09:27:38 property values.
09:27:40 Actually more pedestrian activity.
09:27:42 Just a good healthy thing for our community.
09:27:45 There's a similar project that's just been approved in
09:27:48 And Orlando was so excited to have it.
09:27:50 Actually, they allocated $500,000 in funds just to
09:27:53 ensure that the project located in its downtown CRA.
09:28:00 One question I want to address up front is a question
09:28:04 that came up quite a bit over the last six-month period
09:28:06 is why do we need another supermarket?
09:28:11 So, Publix obviously, they've got a lot more experience
09:28:15 and wisdom than I think at least I have in terms of
09:28:18 spending millions of dollars to select a location.
09:28:20 So I would have to defer to Publix.
09:28:22 But here is the rationale for the new supermarket.
09:28:28 Publix, before they select a location, they undertake a
09:28:30 number of marketing studies.
09:28:31 One of the studies that they conducted in this specific
09:28:34 case is called a spotting survey.
09:28:37 There are two Publix you might be aware of in South
09:28:40 Tampa, Neptune and Dale Mabry and I think it's story
09:28:42 528 at Publix and Brorein which is kind of a
09:28:47 Not a full-size Publix.
09:28:48 Part of the spotting survey, what Publix does is
09:28:50 through use of credit cards and debit cards, they can
09:28:54 determine exactly where people live.
09:29:00 So that's reassuring.
09:29:02 >> Big brother is watching, huh?
09:29:06 >> So the results of the study indicated that this area
09:29:13 where the project is located was underserved or in
09:29:14 essence, the other stores over capacity, I don't know
09:29:17 where you shop, but if you ever try to go shopping say
09:29:20 at Neptune and Dale Mabry on a Saturday or the Publix
09:29:25 on Bayshore, they are pretty much over capacity.
09:29:29 There's a drastic need from Publix's perspective.
09:29:33 What I have here is exhibit two.
09:29:36 This is just a demand graph.
09:29:43 And this graph basically shows that there's a Publix
09:29:45 I'm pointing to, the one on Bayshore, and their western
09:29:48 trade area is the yellow -- the Neptune store.
09:29:51 Eastern area is the blue.
09:29:52 We're right in the middle.
09:29:53 The theory is this will take a lot of pressure off
09:29:56 those stores so they can better serve their customers.
09:30:00 Also, exhibit three is a letter from Publix, brief
09:30:04 letter indicating the market demands of a store at this
09:30:12 Another point here, too, I think it's pretty common
09:30:14 knowledge that people are pretty dedicated to their
09:30:17 brand, whether McDonald's, Burger King, Toyota, or
09:30:21 In the case of Publix, a lot of people in this area for
09:30:24 the project to be located actually shop at these other
09:30:29 Notwithstanding the fact that there's a Sweetbay at the
09:30:32 corner of Swann and Howard, a lot of people, including
09:30:35 people in the audience actually will go down to Gandy
09:30:38 or go to Neptune to shop at a Publix, so they are
09:30:42 pretty dedicated.
09:30:44 From my own personal perspective, I shop at Publix.
09:30:47 Didn't need to say that, but the only time I go to
09:30:50 Albertson's is when Publix is closed for Easter.
09:30:54 The point is, people are dedicated to the brand.
09:30:56 Just because you have a Sweetbay in your neighborhood
09:30:58 doesn't necessarily mean you'll shop there.
09:31:00 >>ROSE FERLITA: Mr. Bentley, you're not -- you're
09:31:03 correct, because I've seen you at the Publix at Gandy.
09:31:06 You believe in who you represent tonight.
09:31:08 >> Thank you for the validation.
09:31:10 >>ROSE FERLITA: That's okay.
09:31:12 I was there, too.
09:31:19 >> I'm going to exhibit four.
09:31:21 I'll talk a little bit about the project.
09:31:22 Although the gross square footage is in the range of
09:31:25 53,000 square feet, about six or seven thousand square
09:31:28 feet is nonusable space that's dedicated to the loading
09:31:31 area, the vestibule, staircases, and things like that.
09:31:34 In essence, the store is really 46,000 square feet.
09:31:39 Entire block is CMU on your comp plan which has an
09:31:40 F.A.R. of 2.7.
09:31:42 The existing zoning is RM-24 and PD.
09:31:45 I think it's important for council to note that the
09:31:47 existing zoning would allow roughly 47,000 square feet
09:31:50 of office and retail and 11 multifamily units and also
09:31:54 at a height of 45 feet, which is the same height as
09:31:58 SoHo at Madison, which is directly South of the subject
09:32:05 The building will consist of three stories with the
09:32:09 store located on the top.
09:32:13 I'll explain the history of that briefly in a couple of
09:32:16 Originally, like Abbye said, the retail was on the
09:32:20 ground floor.
09:32:21 Then Publix, we got some feedback about concerns in the
09:32:25 neighborhood and the attempt to mitigate or alleviate
09:32:28 the traffic problem.
09:32:29 They agreed to put the retail at the top floor, first
09:32:33 two floors would be parking and we did have discussions
09:32:37 with the city administration concerning the possibility
09:32:39 that the city actually leasing that facility.
09:32:42 It has a hundred parking spaces on the first floor.
09:32:45 It's an urban scale project, and what I'd like to show
09:32:45 you here is Publix has utilized this concept
09:33:02 I want to show you a couple of stores in South Florida.
09:33:04 This first picture here is in South Florida, Belle
09:33:07 Harbor, I believe.
09:33:08 When you look at that picture, you can't tell that
09:33:10 there's a parking garage associated with that project.
09:33:12 It looks like a two-story retail facility.
09:33:15 The parking is on the bottom.
09:33:19 Here is another picture of Belle Harbor.
09:33:22 Here is the Ft. Lauderdale store where the parking is
09:33:25 actually on top.
09:33:38 The project's design and elevations are the result of
09:33:41 working closely with staff in the neighborhood and
09:33:44 numerous meetings and contacts.
09:33:46 Specifically at this point in time we have now gone
09:33:48 through four iterations of the project.
09:33:50 Originally the project was trying to complement the
09:33:53 SoHo development located to the South.
09:33:54 It was more of a Mediterranean style project.
09:33:57 We presented that to the city staff and Wilson Stair
09:34:00 and actually liked it.
09:34:01 When we finally got with members of the community, they
09:34:03 didn't like it.
09:34:04 They suggested something more in line with the
09:34:06 community, the architecture located in the area.
09:34:09 More of a cracker style, I'll show you the renderings
09:34:14 and elevations in a second.
09:34:15 It's my understanding that at least some of these
09:34:17 associations have really endorsed that.
09:34:19 What we try to do is make it look like a series of
09:34:21 stores with a tin roof and kind of break it up in
09:34:24 different elevations and architectural features.
09:34:27 For example, the Courier City neighborhood Civic
09:34:30 Association was very clear that they wanted a tin roof.
09:34:34 And the clapboard siding look.
09:34:36 When you look at the elevation, we accommodated them
09:34:40 and we've modified it as well.
09:34:41 What I would like to do is show you a couple of the
09:34:47 This is the Platt Street side, which is the North side
09:34:51 of the project.
09:34:53 As you can see here, we modified this as a result of
09:34:57 some discussions we had with staff and apparently some
09:35:01 Council people weren't really excited about it.
09:35:03 So what we had done here, we put up some what they call
09:35:10 Juliet terraces and made modifications to the
09:35:18 The next elevation on the overhead, this is on the
09:35:20 Armenia side, the West side of the project.
09:35:23 When you're coming one way on Platt, this is what
09:35:25 you're going to see.
09:35:26 Here again, there's wrought iron, there's the parking,
09:35:29 if you notice is on the first and second floor, and you
09:35:34 wouldn't be able to tell that.
09:35:42 Here is what we consider the front.
09:35:43 This is on the South side from Madison and SoHo.
09:35:48 What this incorporates here is actually there's going
09:35:50 to be these Juliet balconies, architectural grills,
09:35:55 Mosaic tiles, a covered veranda from this point to this
09:35:59 point so when you get out of the store, you're not
09:36:02 exposed to the elements.
09:36:03 We also have wrought iron grill work all through the
09:36:06 top of the building.
09:36:14 This is the Moody side, East side of the access.
09:36:17 Moody, if you are familiar with the area, was vacated
09:36:20 to accommodate the then ZOM development located to the
09:36:23 It's really just a stretch between Platt and Azeele.
09:36:27 More of a glorified driveway at this point in time.
09:36:30 I know it's a residential street by classification, but
09:36:32 the property to the East is zoned commercial and RM-24.
09:36:36 I believe that the property owner is in support of our
09:36:40 petition tonight.
09:36:41 Most logical access point to the property was on the
09:36:43 Moody side.
09:36:47 >> Are there few single-families on Moody across the
09:36:50 >> There are two rentals -- councilman, two rentals on
09:36:53 the East side of Moody owned by Mr. Frank cane, who is
09:36:56 here in support.
09:37:08 This is exhibit 7 in your material.
09:37:10 And what this is, it's a landscape plan.
09:37:12 What you'll see, we intend to place eight-foot
09:37:15 sidewalks, your code requires five, eight-foot
09:37:17 sidewalks around the entire periphery with the
09:37:20 exception of Platt Street, six feet.
09:37:22 And also landscaping and vegetation in these areas.
09:37:29 We've also agreed to commit in terms for mitigation of
09:37:33 the tree replacement, to pay into the fund.
09:37:37 And the funds would be used at either Berns Park or the
09:37:40 Hyde Park craft center.
09:37:45 The mitigation funds.
09:37:46 We also committed not through the city, just
09:37:49 independently through a private agreement and -- note
09:37:52 on the plan, $25,000 to the association for off-site
09:37:55 landscaping improvements along with $100,000 in terms
09:37:58 of streetscape improvements, i.e., pavers, walkways,
09:38:03 sidewalk repair, signalization, et cetera.
09:38:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Staff and I were talking about that
09:38:13 condition yesterday, legal staff, and I think that
09:38:15 inherently, the intent and the goodwill from your
09:38:19 client is clear, and I'm sure the Neighborhood
09:38:22 Association is thrilled to have the offer.
09:38:27 But what we were trying to figure out is how could the
09:38:30 city possibly ever enforce that as a condition?
09:38:34 >> Here's what we were thinking of.
09:38:37 We're willing to make that commitment and we wanted to
09:38:39 have the city involved in the process, obviously.
09:38:41 We would gladly cut a check for hundred thousand
09:38:44 dollars to the city.
09:38:45 That's not a problem.
09:38:46 Our fear is that would just go into the general fund.
09:38:49 Wouldn't be dedicated to that particular area.
09:38:51 So we made a commitment to these people that the money
09:38:53 would be spent around the Publix, improve their
09:38:56 So we're looking for a mechanism to do that.
09:39:00 Somehow the city could partner up with us and I know
09:39:03 Julia will address that in a second and she has some
09:39:05 concerns about the city's enforcement authority, too.
09:39:07 But that's our intent here.
09:39:09 The reason we made it note 22, we wanted to show these
09:39:12 people that we were going to follow through on our
09:39:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It might require a development
09:39:17 agreement of some sort, perhaps.
09:39:25 >> Julia Cole, Legal Department.
09:39:27 As Mr. Dingfelder indicated, I do have some concerns
09:39:30 about that note, because that note is acknowledging
09:39:32 that there's some separate agreement that really has
09:39:35 nothing to do with the city.
09:39:36 It's on the site plan.
09:39:37 There really is no mechanism for the city to enforce it
09:39:41 and, in fact, I'm not even sure it's appropriate to be
09:39:43 on the site plan.
09:39:45 Could it be something that's done through a development
09:39:48 Well, certainly there can be a private agreement.
09:39:50 I think the issue becomes one of whether or not the
09:39:52 city wants to participate in a separate agreement to
09:39:55 dedicate whatever time and space to accept the money,
09:39:57 what projects it would go through.
09:39:59 Typically, these are the kinds of things we ask
09:40:02 developers to do because, again, it goes -- the money
09:40:04 gets to us, it goes to the general fund, has to be
09:40:09 allocated certain ways.
09:40:09 So at the very minimum, we can have the discussion
09:40:15 My recommendation is, having this note on the site plan
09:40:19 is not really a good idea because you have essentially
09:40:22 a note that cannot be enforced.
09:40:24 However, all it is is an acknowledgment.
09:40:27 And I understand that there have been discussions
09:40:29 between Mr. Bentley and the developer and the folks in
09:40:33 the neighborhood and it was very important to them.
09:40:36 >> In any event no, matter how we do it, we've
09:40:38 committed to $125,000 to the neighborhood.
09:40:40 And hopefully maybe a developer agreement makes sense
09:40:42 and we'll deal with that later on.
09:40:48 Next thing, here again in terms of interaction with the
09:40:50 neighborhood, there have been ongoing meetings ad
09:40:53 I really got to give kudos to my client.
09:40:57 I've never seen anyone work with the neighborhood like
09:40:59 this guy in my 20 years of practice.
09:41:01 And he's really worked hard.
09:41:02 I think you'll hear testimony tonight from some of
09:41:05 these associations about his good works and his
09:41:07 commitments and how he's changed things to accommodate
09:41:10 What I have given you and they are already in the
09:41:12 record, letters in support.
09:41:13 One is the Courier City commercial, I think it's called
09:41:16 association, Courier City Oscawana.
09:41:20 I understand that the Courier City Civic Association is
09:41:23 here in support as well, and they'll have their
09:41:25 opportunity to speak.
09:41:27 Also, we have numerous letters in support.
09:41:28 I know the hour is getting late and I won't read those
09:41:31 to you.
09:41:31 Essentially they say the same thing.
09:41:33 They are from people who actually live in the
09:41:35 neighborhood saying they are excited about having the
09:41:37 opportunity to live in this urban environment where
09:41:38 they can walk to Starbucks, Publix, et cetera.
09:41:42 They think it would be a really good asset to the
09:41:54 The final issue, then I'll hang it up here, is that
09:41:58 back to this project redesign issue, and you're
09:42:00 probably going to hear some comment on that.
09:42:03 Initially the proposal was bottom floor.
09:42:05 We got feedback.
09:42:07 Our perspective was the majority of the feedback we got
09:42:10 from the neighborhood, they like the opportunity to
09:42:11 potentially have parking to mitigation the SoHo
09:42:14 So Publix had to go back to the drawing board.
09:42:17 Obviously they are concerned about the liability
09:42:19 insurance and those types of issues.
09:42:21 We have met with the administration.
09:42:24 We can't allow parking for public on the top two floors
09:42:29 because of issues.
09:42:30 I mean, the elevator would go flat down into the middle
09:42:33 of the store, so you can't have the public after hours
09:42:36 using -- entering the Publix.
09:42:39 Didn't make sense.
09:42:40 Second of all, the way the project -- the parking
09:42:42 garage is designed, it has just one lane.
09:42:44 If someone is coming out intoxicated and things like
09:42:47 that, trying to maneuver up these ramps, just didn't
09:42:50 make a lot of sense.
09:42:51 So we committed to provide the 100 spaces on ground
09:42:54 level with a view toward hopefully working with the
09:42:57 city to enter into some kind of arrangement that made
09:43:00 Julia participated in the meeting we had with the
09:43:04 So as a result of that, we went back to the drawing
09:43:07 board literally and changed all our renderings,
09:43:10 reengineered the site.
09:43:11 And actually the construction cost to go up, put the
09:43:14 store on top now is over four million dollars more.
09:43:16 But Publix was committed to do that.
09:43:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If you're a pedestrian, I saw that
09:43:27 you can walk two flights of stairs to get up.
09:43:31 I can't remember what side that is.
09:43:33 >> It's the South side.
09:43:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: South side, right.
09:43:35 But is there also easy access to an escalator or
09:43:40 elevator from the exterior of the building?
09:43:43 >> There is.
09:43:43 It is in your staff report.
09:43:45 Four elevators, pretty substantial elevators right in
09:43:47 the middle of the store, the atrium, I guess you could
09:43:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If you're coming from the street --
09:43:55 >> You walk right into the elevators and go up to the
09:43:57 top floor.
09:43:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You come into that South entrance
09:44:00 and it takes you right to the elevators.
09:44:02 >> Yes, sir.
09:44:04 One thing I forgot to mention, too, is kind of a
09:44:07 compromise because some of the consensus was that we'd
09:44:10 like retail on the bottom floor.
09:44:12 What we did is on the southeast corner of the project,
09:44:14 you'll look on the site plan, there's a cafe.
09:44:16 We have outside seating, umbrellas and a lot of the
09:44:19 landscaping and things like that.
09:44:24 So in the event we do enter into some kind of
09:44:27 arrangement with the city concerning the hundred spaces
09:44:30 on the first floor, we put note 20 on the plan which
09:44:33 basically says if that happens, we agree to work with
09:44:36 each other and put the appropriate gates up, et cetera.
09:44:40 So those are some of the key points.
09:44:42 I have the whole team here if you have any specific
09:44:45 Go ahead.
09:44:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: On the Platt Street side, which is
09:44:49 the big truck unloading side, it appears that the
09:44:53 sidewalk is six feet and it appears that you have
09:44:57 landscaping in the sidewalk.
09:44:59 And I really like landscaping, and I really like
09:45:01 sidewalks, but I wonder if it will be passible as a
09:45:05 pedestrian, because traffic comes pretty quickly, you
09:45:08 know, from Armenia and then it turns and goes down
09:45:11 Platt, and I wondered if you could possibly squeeze
09:45:13 another couple of feet.
09:45:14 >> Yeah, what we did here, I know when you look at the
09:45:16 landscape plan, it almost shows like the trees are in
09:45:20 the sidewalk, they are not going to be.
09:45:21 So that's --
09:45:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Where are they going to be?
09:45:24 >> Well, the trees are going to be more on our
09:45:26 We actually have a three-foot buffer if you look at the
09:45:28 landscape plan.
09:45:29 The staff report says we're trying to seek a waiver
09:45:32 from eight feet to zero when in essence it's really
09:45:35 eight to three.
09:45:36 We're not going to impede any ADA issues, that's not a
09:45:39 problem whatsoever.
09:45:40 Also, the loading dock there, you won't see the trucks
09:45:43 once they dive in, because it's 12 feet tall and the
09:45:47 trucks actually kind of go underground.
09:45:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What will the wall look like there?
09:45:52 >> It's going to be finished -- if you have the
09:45:54 northern elevation --
09:45:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I do.
09:45:56 >> Okay.
09:45:56 That's what it's going to look like.
09:45:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Light gray?
09:46:00 >> No, it's going to be finished just like the rest of
09:46:02 the building.
09:46:03 You won't be able to distinguish that side of the
09:46:05 building from any other.
09:46:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: To me, it just looks like brown.
09:46:24 I was wrong.
09:46:25 It's brown, not gray.
09:46:34 >> This is it on the elmo right here.
09:46:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's it.
09:46:44 >> We're using different materials, tin roof.
09:46:48 It's no different than the balance of the building.
09:46:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The top half will be finished
09:46:58 because the trucks underneath it.
09:47:03 >> Exactly.
09:47:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Finished?
09:47:07 >> Yes, unless there are other questions.
09:47:09 >>GWEN MILLER: We'll go to the audience.
09:47:10 Is there anyone in the public who wants to speak on
09:47:12 item number 10?
09:47:14 If you want to speak on 10, please line up and come up
09:47:16 and start speaking.
09:47:26 >> Karl Henson.
09:47:27 2401 West Platt.
09:47:29 I'm directly across the street.
09:47:31 I have a single law office.
09:47:33 This is the aerial of which is the blowup, and my
09:47:38 office is located right here.
09:47:43 And this is Platt and this is the store and this is the
09:47:47 I'm not opposed to the Publix.
09:47:48 I think it's great.
09:47:49 I think the -- my concern is the Department of
09:47:53 And I've got some ideas that I would like to float
09:47:56 around about accessing the Publix.
09:48:02 Presently right now, my area of concern is directly in
09:48:06 front of my office.
09:48:07 South Moody is a single road.
09:48:11 Up the road here is a Montessori school, and these are
09:48:17 mostly residential.
09:48:18 My concern is right now we don't have much problem with
09:48:20 the cut-thru from Cleveland to Moody to cross Platt to
09:48:24 get around.
09:48:25 Only the locals know that area.
09:48:26 My concern is, if the Publix driving accesses through
09:48:33 the Moody road, which it is now, then that's where it's
09:48:37 going to get heavy amount of traffic.
09:48:39 I have talked to the Department of Transportation,
09:48:41 Calvin Thornton my concerns.
09:48:43 I know it was brought up that there were some issues
09:48:45 that that's also the concern.
09:48:48 I have brought some proposals which I think may work to
09:48:52 alleviate that and one of the options that I thought of
09:48:58 was putting like a pork chop at Moody which would
09:49:03 prevent traffic going North to South on Moody.
09:49:06 And it would allow the traffic off Platt to come in and
09:49:09 make a right onto Moody.
09:49:11 And it would make a right heading towards Howard off
09:49:17 I can show -- I don't know if you can see it.
09:49:21 My concern is, propose to make zero lot -- zero lines
09:49:30 on Moody for setbacks.
09:49:34 Presently, there are residential houses that are under
09:49:37 city code enforcement violations.
09:49:39 It is difficult when you go from Moody across Platt to
09:49:43 my office.
09:49:44 Because as Saul-Sena says, the traffic comes around
09:49:49 Azeele at a pretty good rate.
09:49:51 So you've got to look.
09:49:52 My concern is, if it's got zero setback, that it's
09:49:56 going to be even more confusing if you allow the
09:49:58 traffic to go straight across because Platt is a
09:50:01 one-way street, but it's a heavily congested one-way
09:50:05 My office, as I said, sits right here.
09:50:07 There's an average of three funeral processions during
09:50:11 the would he can that come that way.
09:50:12 It's like a nightmare.
09:50:13 So, again, I'm not opposed to Publix.
09:50:16 I think it's great.
09:50:17 I think it's great for the community, but my concern is
09:50:20 safety and the traffic.
09:50:21 And basically how it's going to affect me from a
09:50:23 nuisance aspect.
09:50:24 Because I can foresee if this road is allowed to stay
09:50:27 open like it is, there will be traffic backed up that
09:50:30 would block my parking, especially late in the
09:50:33 afternoon or early in the morning.
09:50:35 The other alternative which I thought, if you could
09:50:38 close off Moody and basically funnel all the traffic
09:50:43 off of Azeele, which is a two-lane road, so they would
09:50:47 come, you know, forced to come out of the garage and
09:50:49 they could enter the same way, but they could exit out,
09:50:54 go towards Armenia or come back and go towards Howard.
09:50:58 So that's my concern.
09:51:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, sir.
09:51:06 >>KEVIN WHITE: Where you have the red arrow.
09:51:08 >> What I've got there is for the pork chop or I call
09:51:11 it the pork chop, if anybody is familiar, that is when
09:51:14 you come down Armenia heading South, you are forced to
09:51:18 go onto Azeele.
09:51:19 Because, as we all know, Armenia is one way heading
09:51:23 So when I saw that the feasibility of a pork chop
09:51:28 working in that area, there is already one here that
09:51:32 basically funnels you down from Armenia when you head
09:51:37 South and onto Azeele.
09:51:44 >>KEVIN WHITE: Right below your hand, right where it
09:51:48 >> This is Azeele.
09:51:49 >>KEVIN WHITE: The red arrows.
09:51:52 >> Red arrows, councilman White, are showing if you
09:51:54 close off this road, then basically keeps the traffic
09:51:58 in a contained area that they can still come out and go
09:52:01 left on Azeele and go either North on Howard or South
09:52:05 on Howard.
09:52:07 >>KEVIN WHITE: You're trying to advocate either close
09:52:09 off the road on the South end or a pork chop there to
09:52:13 make it go one way onto Platt.
09:52:15 >> Right.
09:52:16 Pork chop, just close it that way, on Moody, that way
09:52:19 you cannot cross Moody heading southbound or
09:52:23 You either have to go right on Platt or -- but it still
09:52:26 allows people to come in off of Platt into the parking
09:52:30 >> If you are going North on Moody trying to cross
09:52:35 Platt --
09:52:36 >> You're not going to be able to do that, you won't be
09:52:39 able to access that as a one-way road.
09:52:41 Basically that will alleviate.
09:52:42 And those people that do that, still have the option to
09:52:45 make a left onto Platt and heading one way towards
09:52:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't think most people use Moody
09:52:53 >> Councilman Dingfelder, a lot of people use Moody.
09:52:56 My office is open from 8:00 to 4:30 and quite a bit of
09:53:00 traffic that comes through.
09:53:00 You have a park West auto parts right across the street
09:53:04 from me.
09:53:05 You have a lot of people that cut through that don't
09:53:07 want to go all the way to Armenia from Cleveland to
09:53:10 come back towards Azeele.
09:53:11 They use this to cut through so they can make a left on
09:53:13 Azeele to get to Howard either heading toward
09:53:17 McDinton's or come back toward --
09:53:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: When I take that shortcut, I keep
09:53:23 going up Armenia another block or so and then cut in.
09:53:26 >> Right.
09:53:26 But there is a lot of traffic that comes and there are
09:53:29 times where there's four or five cars because people
09:53:31 don't realize it's a one-way street.
09:53:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
09:53:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Next.
09:53:41 >> Hi.
09:53:42 My name is Michael dubs.
09:53:44 I own a condo at the Madison at SoHo.
09:53:48 I'm in support of the Publix.
09:53:50 Actually, I would like to comment the developer for
09:53:53 putting a lot of time and effort into accommodating us
09:53:56 and the needs that we have regarding this project.
09:53:59 I would like to express a concern regarding the plan of
09:54:04 opening the parking lot after hours.
09:54:06 And regarding the practicality of this plan.
09:54:10 According to Publix, they close at 10:00 and usually
09:54:14 would require half an hour to an hour for their
09:54:17 employees to leave the parking lot, which means the
09:54:19 city will not have the parking lot available until
09:54:22 after 11.
09:54:23 And the question is, most of the people that come for
09:54:27 restaurants or nightclubs are usually already in the
09:54:29 area before this time.
09:54:31 So I wonder how practical a plan of having a parking
09:54:36 lot available after 11 for the purposes of the city and
09:54:39 the neighborhood.
09:54:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
09:54:48 >> Good evening, madam Chairman and Council members.
09:54:51 My name is Walter crumbly.
09:54:53 I have been sworn.
09:54:54 I'm the president of the Courier City Oscawana
09:54:59 homeowner association.
09:55:02 I wouldn't say that our association adopted this
09:55:07 concept with a resounding yes.
09:55:11 The vote that we finally got was 58% said yes.
09:55:15 42% said no.
09:55:20 So it's really an ambivalent subject with us.
09:55:25 This is, incidentally, the first time in our history
09:55:30 that we have not been of one mind.
09:55:32 As you know, we have either been unanimously yes or
09:55:34 unanimously no.
09:55:36 I do feel like I need to bring up some things because
09:55:41 the dissenters or noes, if you will, have certainly
09:55:46 flooded my e-mails.
09:55:47 And one of the major concerns that e-mail have is the
09:55:53 increased traffic and the fact that it's sandwiched in
09:55:57 amongst a bunch of one-way streets.
09:56:01 And I don't think any of us are going to stand here and
09:56:04 be foolish enough to say, well, there's not going to be
09:56:08 any increase in traffic because it's going to be neck
09:56:11 deep in traffic.
09:56:19 We weren't joyous over having the retail on the third
09:56:22 floor either.
09:56:26 I will say they gave us a little small cafe on the
09:56:28 corner as a token, and we thank you for what we could
09:56:32 get, but we would much prefer to have the whole store
09:56:34 on the ground floor, put the parking upstairs.
09:56:39 The mass and scale of this place is of quite a bit of
09:56:47 concern to everybody because it's another one of these
09:56:49 three-story Titanics cruising through the neighborhood.
09:56:54 So that was one of the things.
09:56:59 And the talk about being pedestrian friendly and this
09:57:05 sidewalk issue, there's no way in the world you can get
09:57:11 to this store on foot down around Platt Street.
09:57:16 I define anyone in this room to get a gallon of milk in
09:57:19 each hand and try and cross Platt Street at 5:30 in the
09:57:23 afternoon or worse than that, at 8:00 in the morning
09:57:26 when they are still asleep.
09:57:30 The lights and intersections such as they are, are not
09:57:34 pedestrian friendly.
09:57:35 They don't have a stop button for the pedestrians to
09:57:40 halt traffic.
09:57:45 If stops on Platt Street, when then you try to run
09:57:48 across the street, the people turning left or Armenia
09:57:51 will get you.
09:57:52 So you really have to be on your toes.
09:57:55 Madison and SoHo group are the ones most affected by
09:57:59 this, because it's, of course, right across the street.
09:58:02 And certainly would suggest that you listen carefully
09:58:05 to anything they have to say because it's really in
09:58:09 their backyard.
09:58:10 Thank you.
09:58:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Wait.
09:58:14 Before you leave.
09:58:14 I have a question.
09:58:16 You said that you all would prefer that the store is at
09:58:21 the bottom with the parking above.
09:58:23 >> Yes.
09:58:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: How come?
09:58:25 >> Because it's more pedestrian friendly.
09:58:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And did you share that with the
09:58:33 property --
09:58:34 >> Well, the way the switcheroo came about, the first
09:58:37 time it was presented to us, we had been through about
09:58:39 five or six meetings.
09:58:41 The first time it was on the ground floor.
09:58:44 The next time we saw it, it was on the roof.
09:58:48 We've always been more in favor of retail on the ground
09:58:52 floor level where you can come in right off the street
09:58:57 and into the store.
09:58:59 You know, obviously we suggested we didn't like that.
09:59:04 Got nowhere.
09:59:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Ferlita.
09:59:07 >>ROSE FERLITA: Mr. Crumbly, did I understand you
09:59:09 correctly or misunderstand you?
09:59:11 You said in terms of your membership, you had 58%
09:59:14 approval, 42% against.
09:59:16 >> Right.
09:59:17 >>ROSE FERLITA: I had a suspicious what you just told
09:59:19 us comes from the 42%.
09:59:21 Half of the 58, do you want -- on behalf of the 58, do
09:59:24 you want to say anything complimentary about this or
09:59:27 >> You know, I might divulge where I'm at there.
09:59:32 I think a lot of people like the idea of having another
09:59:36 And they may be Publix shoppers.
09:59:39 You know, I'm glad I don't use my plastic there now
09:59:42 that I know they can pinpoint me.
09:59:49 But there are a lot of people that say yes, this is a
09:59:52 great idea.
09:59:53 But all the people that I'm talking to or talking
09:59:56 about, you take your life in your hands trying to cross
10:00:02 the street at Howard Avenue, Armenia and Platt.
10:00:08 Those are high density vehicle traffic lanes and very
10:00:13 difficult for a pedestrian to cross.
10:00:15 But I think, you know, it's a great idea.
10:00:20 Have a little more competition and everything.
10:00:24 Get whaley's juiced up, make Sweetbay do right.
10:00:28 I think most of the people generally think, yes, it's a
10:00:33 good idea.
10:00:35 But they got a lot of reservations about the traffic
10:00:37 and the parking and quite frankly, this idea of using
10:00:42 the parking garage this gentleman just brought it up,
10:00:45 it's a waste of time for the city to get involved
10:00:47 because they are not going to let you in it until
10:00:51 And by then, the problem is going downhill, not uphill.
10:00:57 >> Thank you, sir.
10:00:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Next.
10:01:05 >> I'm Carla Jiminez.
10:01:07 I live at 1415 Deidra Drive in Ruskin.
10:01:08 My business address is 216 South Armenia Avenue.
10:01:12 I have been sworn in.
10:01:14 I own -- I'm co-owner of two lots directly across Platt
10:01:17 Street from the proposed development.
10:01:19 And co-owner of inkwood books which is the tenant
10:01:24 I'm going to read my comments because I'm worried about
10:01:26 the three minute busy and afraid I'll skip something.
10:01:29 So if you'll indulge me.
10:01:32 A few tangential matters before I get into my main
10:01:36 issue, though there's no requirement that signs be
10:01:38 maintained through a 30 day notice period, the only
10:01:42 public notice on the property since at least last
10:01:44 Monday is facing squarely against traffic on a one-way
10:01:48 I'm not suggesting any impropriety, I just believe that
10:01:52 this is such a radical deviation from the
10:01:55 neighborhood's character that in this instance,
10:01:58 neighborliness is best served by actual notice to
10:02:02 everybody affected.
10:02:02 I just wanted to mention that.
10:02:04 There's a lot said about traffic.
10:02:05 I want to leave that to the experts.
10:02:07 I do want to mention from my vantage point at inkwood,
10:02:10 I see at least, without exaggerating, I see at least
10:02:14 two or three people going the wrong way on Platt each
10:02:18 And there are fender-benders at the corner of Armenia
10:02:21 and Platt and more serious accidents there all the
10:02:23 I'm very concerned about the traffic issue.
10:02:25 I don't think they are insurmountable.
10:02:28 I hope experts know how to handle that.
10:02:32 I believe people exiting on Moody will not -- will be
10:02:33 quite surprised to see if they turn North, they can
10:02:35 only go East on Platt and you have to go at least two
10:02:38 blocks East to come around and go back West.
10:02:40 I think that's a concern, not my business, but I hope
10:02:44 that the people who handle traffic are concerned with
10:02:46 My main point is that I absolutely urge the Council to
10:02:50 approve this request only, only on the condition that
10:02:53 the market is on the ground level with the parking
10:02:56 It's my understanding that more street level parking
10:02:59 garages are expressly prohibited in downtown Tampa, and
10:03:02 at least those same standards should apply in a mixed
10:03:06 neighborhood with single-family homes, apartments and
10:03:08 condos and small offices and businesses.
10:03:10 The current proposal discourages the vitality and
10:03:13 community that street level storefronts provide.
10:03:16 An urban supermarket using stacked parking sounds like
10:03:20 a commendable modern proposal avoiding yet another
10:03:24 expanse of asphalt but benefits of such a product are
10:03:29 overshadowed by the negative impact of this proposed
10:03:33 While supermarkets on upper floors are not unusual in
10:03:36 large cities, it is because they are infill typically
10:03:39 added above or below existing street level businesses
10:03:43 and the norm is not to build this kind of a structure
10:03:46 where construction begins with an empty lot.
10:03:48 A street level market with parking above is a model
10:03:52 consistent with Publix's own stores in at least two
10:03:55 other locations.
10:03:56 Since I'm sworn in, I might be wrong about where.
10:03:59 I understand Ft. Lauderdale, I thought also South Beach
10:04:02 or Miami Beach.
10:04:03 I could be recalling that incorrectly.
10:04:05 While Publix will lose some selling floor area to a
10:04:09 ramp on the first floor with slightly smaller level,
10:04:13 street level market, they must have decided it was
10:04:15 viable to do it that way or otherwise why would they
10:04:19 have submitted the plan in the first place.
10:04:21 It clearly could still be profit making, still
10:04:24 We just heard it would be four million dollars more
10:04:27 expensive to switch it around.
10:04:28 So the suggestion that somehow they need that extra
10:04:31 selling space in order to be profitable just doesn't
10:04:33 make sense.
10:04:34 In fact, the only plan that's had any media attention
10:04:37 was the plan with the street level market.
10:04:41 Can I have another 30 seconds or how does this work?
10:04:44 >>GWEN MILLER: 30 seconds and that's it.
10:04:46 >> Every week you all are faced with decisions that
10:04:48 will either enhance our future as a livable attractive
10:04:51 city or detract from our appeal to residents and
10:04:54 visitors alike.
10:04:55 Approval of this plan without attaching condition of
10:04:58 the market being on the ground floor would set a
10:05:01 dangerous precedent and I think the whole city should
10:05:03 be aware.
10:05:03 I fully expect Publix will be my neighbor soon.
10:05:07 I don't have a problem with that.
10:05:08 I shop at nature's harvest when I'm in Tampa but I'm
10:05:13 friendly to Publix.
10:05:14 I suspect they will be good neighbors when I move in.
10:05:17 Most importantly, in order to fit in, they really need
10:05:20 to be at the street level.
10:05:22 Part of the street level life of the neighborhood
10:05:24 rather than placing themselves above the neighbors.
10:05:26 I think this is an important decision you're being
10:05:29 asked to make that is a huge precedent for the city.
10:05:32 I ask that you please, please require as a condition
10:05:35 that the market be on the ground level.
10:05:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:05:42 >> Good evening.
10:05:43 My name is will Odell.
10:05:45 I live at 2513 West Azeele, which is the SoHo lofts
10:05:51 directly to the West.
10:05:52 I believe I'm the only one here representing that
10:05:55 And with all projects that come up, there always has to
10:06:00 be one dissenting vote and that's going to be mine.
10:06:04 First of all, I don't think this is a win-win situation
10:06:08 for everyone because I really think that we stand the
10:06:10 most to lose along with the SoHo, because we face
10:06:14 directly into a 45-foot wall across a 45-foot street.
10:06:18 Makes a big sound canyon, all of that.
10:06:25 What the previous speaker said about the signs facing
10:06:29 the wrong way on a one-way street, all I know is that
10:06:33 our homeowners association, nobody knew about this
10:06:38 project until those came up.
10:06:40 I've heard a bunch from Ms. Feeley and Mr. Bentley
10:06:45 about how we've met with all of the owners.
10:06:48 Well, what happened was with our group, we saw the
10:06:52 I think that's 30 days prior.
10:06:55 We got letters in our mailboxes about three weeks ago.
10:07:01 I called on those letters and I talked to the
10:07:04 representatives involved and they said, okay, well, we
10:07:07 would like to meet with you guys.
10:07:09 We've been trying to reach you forever.
10:07:11 Well, we've been living there for two years or more.
10:07:15 And then we finally met a week ago today.
10:07:19 We finally got the last copies of this plan two days
10:07:24 ago by e-mail, so as far as who they met with, they he
10:07:29 feel met with the Oscawana in the SoHo but not with us
10:07:35 until a week ago.
10:07:36 So that's why maybe there's not more dissenting votes.
10:07:41 I'm not totally against it, because I realize we don't
10:07:44 own the space above there and there is going to be some
10:07:46 development issues.
10:07:48 But I would back up the previous speaker and several of
10:07:51 the others to put it on the ground floor for two
10:07:55 The one that they say it's easier for pedestrians.
10:07:59 And the other one, I'm going to be looking out my
10:08:01 window from SoHo lofts into -- I'd rather look into
10:08:08 parking garage where people aren't going to be looking
10:08:11 back out or they are not going to be out on the fire
10:08:16 escapes actually facing where my unit is, there's going
10:08:19 to be a fire escape where I assume probably some of the
10:08:22 workers are going to be out smoking their cigarettes or
10:08:25 whatever, but that would be my preference.
10:08:27 Because I realize I can't dictate progress.
10:08:31 And I think they've done a great job trying to fit it
10:08:35 into the environment.
10:08:36 But I do not see how it will not lower our property
10:08:41 values in the SoHo lofts.
10:08:43 They mentioned, well, it's only 45 feet, that's the
10:08:47 same as the Madison SoHo.
10:08:53 I think there's -- fairly big difference in Madison
10:09:03 I just took this tonight because I really had like less
10:09:06 than two days to prepare.
10:09:08 But you can see Madison SoHo is right here.
10:09:13 And, of course, it's 45 feet is over here.
10:09:17 And so this would be coming up perpendicular for
10:09:27 45 feet.
10:09:27 Same thing looking south.
10:09:28 These are our units over here.
10:09:30 24-foot tall in the middle, these peaks on either end
10:09:35 go a little higher.
10:09:36 They are going to 45 over here.
10:09:39 That's almost double the size and it's straight up and
10:09:44 It's not going to benefit everyone.
10:09:46 I just wanted to put my dissenting vote in and put my
10:09:49 encouraging vote for putting the retail on the bottom.
10:09:53 And I was sworn in.
10:10:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Next.
10:10:08 >> April black, 306 South Albany, I have been sworn in.
10:10:14 I live just a few blocks East of the project.
10:10:22 On the one side is Moody.
10:10:25 One more block over is Howard Avenue, and that's one
10:10:28 It starts one way right there between Azeele and Platt
10:10:31 And that's a problem for us because if you're coming
10:10:35 off of Moody and you get on to Azeele, you're going to
10:10:38 have to go one way North, okay, but if you're coming
10:10:43 down Platt Street and you miss your turn into the
10:10:47 Publix Moody driveway, which you're likely to do, it's
10:10:50 a small street, you're going to hit Howard and it's
10:10:53 going the wrong way.
10:10:54 So you're going to end up in the neighborhood trying to
10:10:56 make your turns, coming back around to Azeele.
10:11:00 This is going to happen all day long.
10:11:02 I mean, let's be honest.
10:11:04 It is going to happen all day long.
10:11:06 >> Wouldn't there be a sign -- that would say Publix
10:11:12 >> There probably will be.
10:11:13 You know how it is.
10:11:15 You've got that one chance.
10:11:16 And if you miss it, you've got to go into the
10:11:19 The next traffic light is on the other side of the
10:11:22 That's a long way to go.
10:11:24 You'll have to go through the neighborhood or go the
10:11:26 wrong way and make a giant loop and people aren't going
10:11:29 to do that.
10:11:29 Let's face it, you and I wouldn't do that either.
10:11:32 I just want you to consider that.
10:11:34 When it comes to the pedestrian friendly stuff, if
10:11:36 you're coming down Platt Street, there is no sidewalk
10:11:39 next to PC choy.
10:11:45 Palm trees, little wall, steps up about a foot maybe
10:11:48 two feet.
10:11:49 Then they have their patio right there.
10:11:51 So there's no sidewalk there at all.
10:11:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Maybe they are encroaching in the
10:11:55 public right-of-way.
10:11:56 >> We don't know if that was part of their variance
10:11:58 request long ago or why, but if you are at that traffic
10:12:01 light, you may want to notice that there's no way to
10:12:05 walk to Publix from there.
10:12:09 I guess that's all I have to say.
10:12:11 I'm just concerned about the traffic that's going to
10:12:13 end up on Azeele which is not a major street once it
10:12:17 hits that neighborhood.
10:12:18 It's only a busy street on the West side of Howard, on
10:12:23 the East side, it's a very narrow little neighborhood
10:12:27 And it's going to get a lot of traffic.
10:12:29 Thank you.
10:12:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:12:34 >>THE CLERK: I have checked the notice for the
10:12:37 affidavit that was filed.
10:12:38 It does show notice was mailed on August 28 to
10:12:42 Mr. Odell at 2513 West Azeele street.
10:12:48 >> Hi.
10:12:49 My name is Elizabeth.
10:12:50 506 South Melville avenue.
10:12:54 I'm with the Courier City Oscawana Homeowners
10:12:58 I'm actually in favor of Publix coming in.
10:13:01 I think they've done as good a job as could be hoped to
10:13:05 accommodate our wishes.
10:13:07 I have two concerns I want to raise.
10:13:08 One is, when we first said that we thought we wanted
10:13:11 them to try to have parking available, once we game
10:13:14 aware of the fact that it wasn't really going to be
10:13:16 available until 11:00 at night, you know, while that
10:13:19 doesn't address the real parking problem, go ahead and
10:13:21 put the retail back on the bottom.
10:13:24 They didn't -- for various reasons I'm not sure I
10:13:27 understand they didn't want to do that.
10:13:28 Maybe it would be possible for them to put the retail
10:13:31 back on the bottom which I think would make people
10:13:33 really happy.
10:13:34 The other concern I have is, I have a copy of the
10:13:37 letter that they gave us about the money for the
10:13:42 sidewalks and then the 25,000 for the landscaping,
10:13:44 which I think again is a huge concession on their part
10:13:47 to try to accommodate our needs for having a pedestrian
10:13:51 friendly grocery store.
10:13:53 We can't get there without sidewalks.
10:13:56 Well, we'll give you money for sidewalks.
10:13:58 Obviously, we can't take money from them.
10:14:00 That would be crazy.
10:14:01 So I don't know how you figure out -- I mean, I raised
10:14:04 this concern -- same concern that you guys had about
10:14:07 how do we handle this money.
10:14:08 I think the city needs to have it somehow and do the
10:14:11 developments themselves or what -- we want it to come
10:14:14 into our neighborhood.
10:14:14 So I think we need to figure that out somehow.
10:14:16 But I wanted to put the letter on the record so you
10:14:18 guys would have it and I'll give you a copy of that.
10:14:21 Thank you.
10:14:22 That's all I have.
10:14:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Next.
10:14:28 >> I'm -- I live at 308 South Albany and I have not
10:14:32 been sworn.
10:14:33 I watched you guys on TV and we decided to come when
10:14:38 you started to getting down to more than budget
10:14:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone else who hasn't been sworn in
10:14:46 that will speak?
10:14:48 Will you please stand and raise your right hand.
10:14:52 (Oath administered by clerk).
10:14:58 >> Yes.
10:15:01 Ms. Ferlita, I am one of the 58%.
10:15:04 I am also one of the 42% or is it the other way around?
10:15:09 >>ROSE FERLITA: That helps me a lot.
10:15:11 Really appreciate that clarification.
10:15:13 >> I'm a representative of the ambivalence of our
10:15:17 I have to thank RMC for really vitalizing our
10:15:22 Neighborhood Association.
10:15:23 Mr. Bentley mentioned the number of meetings that RMC
10:15:26 conducted with probably us and that's true.
10:15:30 There were so many of them that it was like okay, it's
10:15:34 Thursday, it must be RMC night because we had
10:15:38 incredible turnout.
10:15:39 I appreciate that, the effort that they made.
10:15:43 However, I have to say that the focus of those meetings
10:15:46 tended to be their arguing, their positions only and
10:15:51 accommodating us only on the concessions of the
10:15:53 exterior design.
10:15:59 I want to admit I was slightly offended at the opening
10:16:01 of this topic on the agenda.
10:16:04 I do not know Ms. Feeley or Mr. Garcia, but I really
10:16:08 felt they were not at all presenting this in an
10:16:10 objective manner.
10:16:11 I felt they came across sounding as if agent for the
10:16:15 petitioner and how glorious this was going to be for
10:16:18 our neighborhood.
10:16:19 It's going to be a wonderful accommodation to those of
10:16:23 us in the neighborhood if the retail is on the ground
10:16:28 I came in here tonight and was stunned to learn
10:16:31 something that I did not know.
10:16:33 And I won't go so far as to say we were lied to.
10:16:37 However, there was an omission.
10:16:41 This store is now scheduled to be 53,000 square feet.
10:16:45 We never heard that number.
10:16:50 We were initially told 39,000 square feet when it was
10:16:54 on the ground floor.
10:16:55 When it was moved to the third floor, we were told that
10:16:58 it was going to be 46,000 square feet.
10:17:01 We never heard 53,000.
10:17:05 At a meeting in August, Ms. Jiminez's husband pushed
10:17:09 the representative and finally got it out that the
10:17:12 reason that they moved to the third floor was that it
10:17:14 gave them additional square footage.
10:17:18 Land Development wants it on the ground floor.
10:17:21 We want it on the ground floor.
10:17:23 If this comes back on the ground floor, you can bet
10:17:25 that our association is going to be 99.9% in favor.
10:17:30 I don't like driving to Gandy to go to Publix because I
10:17:34 won't go to the Neptune store, but I shop Publix.
10:17:37 The 500-square-foot cafe on the corner of Azeele and
10:17:41 Moody is an accommodation.
10:17:45 We appreciate that effort, but I personally don't
10:17:48 believe it's enough.
10:17:49 Thank you.
10:17:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:17:57 >> Hi.
10:17:57 I'm Jeff black.
10:17:58 I live at 306 South Albany.
10:18:01 I have been sworn.
10:18:02 Thank you for allowing me to appear this evening.
10:18:04 Ms. Ferlita, I'm also part of the 58%.
10:18:07 But only 60% of me is voting for the proposed Publix.
10:18:15 I do have some reservations.
10:18:18 As was stated earlier, Orlando has given $500,000.
10:18:23 I'm not giving up my millage to go into this project,
10:18:29 but if we were putting a large supermarket in downtown,
10:18:35 would we allow the parking garage to be on the first
10:18:38 floor in our downtown area?
10:18:41 I don't think so.
10:18:41 And the other thing is our trees.
10:18:45 We don't get any trees.
10:18:47 Well, there are going to be trees down the road at
10:18:49 Berns Park and trees at the craft center, well, neither
10:18:52 one of those are in Oscawana, Courier City area.
10:18:55 I see a lot of badges that say I heart Publix.
10:18:58 Well, I heart Oscawana and Courier City.
10:19:01 I shop at Publix, and yes, it is a pleasure.
10:19:04 Thank you very much.
10:19:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:19:10 >> Keith Edwards, 411 South Melville.
10:19:13 I have been sworn.
10:19:14 I'm a new resident to the Courier City area.
10:19:17 And I want to voice my support for this store.
10:19:19 I think it would be a great asset to our neighborhood.
10:19:22 I hear a lot of concerns regarding the traffic to this
10:19:26 I'll say that personally, given that I do live four
10:19:32 blocks away, I would be a pedestrian to this store.
10:19:32 There are some issues crossing Howard to get there.
10:19:35 But I don't think that it's anything that would deter
10:19:38 me from walking to the location.
10:19:40 And as far as being on the ground floor or on the third
10:19:43 floor, I do not have a preference.
10:19:46 I think the third floor would be just fine given the
10:19:49 stairs and the elevator.
10:19:51 I just want to voice my support for this project.
10:19:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:19:59 >> I'm frank cane, 4963 Bayshore Boulevard.
10:20:03 I own the property across the street and one
10:20:06 single-family property in that area.
10:20:09 I'm completely surrounded by commercial.
10:20:13 And the properties I own that are residential.
10:20:15 And I do plan to come before this Council or the next
10:20:21 one for rezoning that property to some sort of
10:20:23 neighborhood community use and putting some retail in
10:20:26 I have no objection to this.
10:20:27 I have family members that live within two and three
10:20:29 blocks of this location, two of them.
10:20:31 And there's no objection on their part either.
10:20:34 All grocery stores including a few in the neighborhood
10:20:36 and retail centers have one entrance.
10:20:39 They don't have lots of windows.
10:20:40 I don't really understand what the issue between the
10:20:43 first and the third floor would be except we're just
10:20:45 not use to getting in elevators when we do go into a
10:20:49 grocery store.
10:20:50 But their walls are going to be filled with product.
10:20:54 Won't be windows where people can see in.
10:20:56 I think they tried to mitigate that look by giving it a
10:21:00 prettier exterior look.
10:21:02 If you look at any other grocery stores, including
10:21:04 Publix, they have less concern with the back or sides.
10:21:07 In this case, they treated all four like the front side
10:21:10 and I think have done a great job.
10:21:11 I appreciate your support for this project.
10:21:14 Thank you.
10:21:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:21:18 >> Good evening, Council.
10:21:19 Tommy Ortiz, 308 South Fremont.
10:21:23 I'm a resident and business owner in the area.
10:21:25 I'm extremely excited about this new addition to the
10:21:28 neighborhood having lived in the neighborhood for over
10:21:30 ten years, right off of Platt.
10:21:34 So I've watched it grow, and I can't even imagine what
10:21:42 it's going to be like with this store being added here.
10:21:45 Two things stuck out to me in the area that Mr. Bentley
10:21:49 discussed was, first, the parking.
10:21:51 Having, owning a restaurant in the area, parking is an
10:21:55 extreme difficulty for everyone, both residents and for
10:21:57 the guests that come into the neighborhood in the
10:22:00 And we're going to have or the city will have access to
10:22:03 100 parking spaces, controlled parking spaces and that
10:22:08 is, I think, a blessing in disguise and music to my
10:22:11 And I know that the neighborhood doesn't see it yet,
10:22:14 but I think they'll feel it once that plan goes into
10:22:17 The second thing is, what Mr. Bentley had talked about
10:22:20 was encouragement for the residents to walk.
10:22:24 That is not happening as much as it should be in our
10:22:28 And I think that the more businesses that come into the
10:22:30 area that are like this are going to encourage the
10:22:34 residents to leave their cars at home and to get in the
10:22:37 habit of walking, which once it becomes something of
10:22:40 human nature, they are going to be incredibly pleased
10:22:43 at walking in the evening as well as walking during the
10:22:46 day, so I think it's something that's an added bonus,
10:22:51 another blessing in disguise.
10:22:53 Sitting here for a second, I've already come up with an
10:22:55 idea where I plan on giving away grocery carriages to
10:22:58 the Publix customers just to put my name on it so they
10:23:01 can walk with my name around town.
10:23:03 So I appreciate their efforts.
10:23:05 And I look forward to this being there and I hope you
10:23:08 guys will support it.
10:23:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Sir, what is your restaurant?
10:23:12 >> Hyde Park cafe.
10:23:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Do you have a parking problem?
10:23:17 >> Gratefully, we don't.
10:23:18 We actually purchased quite a bit of parking in the
10:23:22 area, and we spent quite a bit of money in the area for
10:23:26 outside parcels.
10:23:27 We hire security for all our streets in the area.
10:23:31 We have learned how to work with the neighborhood and
10:23:34 encourage our other business owners to do the same, but
10:23:37 we're taking a lead in that.
10:23:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I was thinking about those carts
10:23:40 they have in New York City --
10:23:43 >> Absolutely.
10:23:44 With Hyde Park's logo on there, I think that would be
10:23:49 [ LAUGHTER ]
10:23:51 >> My name is Christopher Scott.
10:23:53 I have been sworn in.
10:23:56 I live at 1121 Abbey Way.
10:23:59 I own a number of businesses in Courier City.
10:24:02 I look at that piece of land, and you know it's going
10:24:05 to get developed.
10:24:06 And I can't think of a better organization to develop
10:24:09 I think it's needed in the area.
10:24:10 I can see the concerns of the people that live around
10:24:14 And I think that as far as the first floor goes, that
10:24:19 they have a point, but I also get that that whole area
10:24:22 needs parking.
10:24:23 You know it, I know it.
10:24:26 And if they can put a hundred parking spaces on the
10:24:29 first floor and take a hundred cars off the street and
10:24:34 have people park there and for you to be able to go in
10:24:36 there and run it and make money from it at the same
10:24:40 time, I think that's a good thing.
10:24:44 I'm in full support of that project.
10:24:46 Thank you.
10:24:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:24:53 >> Peter HANUCH.
10:24:55 I have numerous businesses in the area there.
10:24:57 I want to say in the years that I've been there, I've
10:24:59 seen some real growth in that area and I've also
10:25:03 watched a lot of it being beautified and so forth.
10:25:06 I really believe the Publix will be a great addition.
10:25:09 The parking, if you've ever been in that area late
10:25:11 night, you'll notice that a lot of people are parking
10:25:13 all over the streets and so forth which has to be a
10:25:16 hindrance to a lot of the neighborhood houses.
10:25:19 I really support any additional parking that Publix
10:25:21 will bring to the neighborhood.
10:25:22 Thank you.
10:25:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
10:25:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Bentley, we've heard that the
10:25:36 location of the store, whether it's on the ground floor
10:25:38 or the top floor is of great concern to people.
10:25:42 And we've also heard that the parking wouldn't be
10:25:44 available to the neighborhood till 11:00 at night.
10:25:48 Could you speak to those issues?
10:25:49 Well, let me just be flat out.
10:25:51 Would you be willing to go back to your first idea of
10:25:54 putting the store on the ground floor?
10:25:58 Because in terms of a true urban environment, you have
10:26:02 activity on the ground level.
10:26:04 And you said yourself, that was your first idea, and
10:26:07 we've heard from a number of people tonight who said
10:26:10 that's what they prefer.
10:26:11 And you said it would cost four million dollars more to
10:26:14 put it on top.
10:26:14 So my question to you is, would you consider putting
10:26:18 the store on the ground floor to make it more
10:26:21 pedestrian friendly?
10:26:22 >> Here again I spoke with the client.
10:26:24 It's something they would consider.
10:26:25 However, let me embellish on that.
10:26:28 I think like one of these gentlemen indicated, it's
10:26:31 really irrelevant, once you walk to the store it's an
10:26:34 access issue whether you get in an elevator or you walk
10:26:38 directly into the store to accommodate or compromise we
10:26:41 provided the cafe on the ground floor.
10:26:43 And here again, if we flip it again, which is a
10:26:48 possibility, the city is going to forgo the opportunity
10:26:51 to alleviate some of the parking.
10:26:53 I'm not that familiar with the parking situation.
10:26:55 I know a lot of people go to those bars and restaurants
10:26:58 pretty late at night as well.
10:26:59 And this would be a seven-day-a-week opportunity for
10:27:04 parking in the facility.
10:27:04 Not just Thursday, Friday, et cetera.
10:27:09 It's something we will consider if that's the desire or
10:27:13 consensus of the Council.
10:27:14 And if I could, just a brief rebuttal, if you don't
10:27:18 mind, someone mentioned here that great deference
10:27:22 should be given to the SoHo at Madison people.
10:27:24 I've given you a copy of the letter authored by
10:27:28 Mr. William Moore.
10:27:29 He's the president of SoHo at Madison association,
10:27:31 although he sent it in his personal capacity, he
10:27:34 indicates in the letter that I provided, says, quote,
10:27:37 while not speaking for the association in an official
10:27:39 capacity, I know many of our owners are in agreement
10:27:41 with me and there are 240 owners.
10:27:45 So I think that speaks volumes because that's our
10:27:47 immediate neighbor.
10:27:49 A couple of issues, pedestrian access, we understand
10:27:52 there are some problems there.
10:27:53 That's why we're ready to pony up a hundred thousand
10:27:56 dollars and make some improvements like the time
10:27:58 signals you see downtown.
10:27:59 So people can cross these streets safely.
10:28:02 With respect to streetscape, we're committed to make
10:28:05 major improvements there.
10:28:08 One issue about the size of the store, kind of a bait
10:28:11 and switch, I'm pretty offended about that because
10:28:13 that's not how we do business.
10:28:15 The original store without parking and loading was
10:28:18 roughly 40,000 square feet when located on the first
10:28:21 When we moved it up, if you look at the site plan, the
10:28:23 store is 46,000 square feet, exactly what that lady
10:28:26 said. It's 52 or 53,000 when you include the loading
10:28:29 dock, the atrium, the new stairwells, et cetera.
10:28:34 So the project hasn't really changed.
10:28:36 So I don't think that's a big surprise.
10:28:38 It wasn't to get more square footage.
10:28:40 As I indicated, it will cost substantially more to put
10:28:43 it up there.
10:28:44 So I think, as I indicated early on, the fundamental
10:28:50 issue, should it be on the top or bottom?
10:28:53 We're trying to deal with two masters so to speak.
10:28:55 We wouldn't have put it on top if we hadn't had all
10:28:58 this positive feedback from a number of the residents
10:29:01 in the community.
10:29:02 I'll just leave it at that.
10:29:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The only thing I didn't hear
10:29:07 specifically was this 11 p.m. issue.
10:29:11 >> Well, the store -- Publix closes at 10:00.
10:29:15 That's correct.
10:29:16 Then to get the customers out and have security get all
10:29:18 the cars out and their employees pack it in, you're
10:29:21 probably talking about 10:30 to 11:00.
10:29:24 That's an accurate statement.
10:29:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm not sure that creates a huge
10:29:30 benefit for the -- to solve the parking issues that are
10:29:34 down there, but we can keep talking about that.
10:29:37 Would you be okay with putting hours of operation on
10:29:39 the site plan, because I do have some concerns about
10:29:42 the folks at Madison and SoHo.
10:29:45 And if Publix changed their policy and went into a
10:29:49 24-hour mode, I don't think that would be real healthy.
10:29:53 >> That's not a problem.
10:29:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 10 p.m. every night?
10:29:57 >> 8:00 to --
10:29:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't care about the a.m.
10:30:00 >> The closure no -- open for business you're talking
10:30:06 10:00, not a problem.
10:30:11 The client indicates Mr.-- 10:30 if that's acceptable.
10:30:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Once you close the public hearing,
10:30:20 we can't keep asking you questions.
10:30:22 So my inclination is to approve this with the store on
10:30:28 the ground floor.
10:30:30 Would you be okay with that -- I mean, is your client
10:30:34 willing to go back to your original plan to put the
10:30:37 store on the ground floor?
10:30:39 Because that's the way I personally will support it.
10:30:45 >> I know you have a lot of people waiting in the hall.
10:30:48 He would like a minute --
10:30:50 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I don't really care top floor or
10:30:53 bottom floor, and I don't know what my other Council
10:30:56 members feel about that.
10:30:57 I heard from the neighborhood.
10:30:59 A lot of people say we prefer first and I think people
10:31:01 would prefer the second.
10:31:03 So -- whatever it is.
10:31:06 Like you said --
10:31:12 >>GWEN MILLER: I don't have a problem with the top or
10:31:14 Doesn't matter to me either.
10:31:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think it's really critical.
10:31:19 >>KEVIN WHITE: I have a question for Ms. Calloway from
10:31:25 our transportation department.
10:31:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: While she's coming up --
10:31:28 >>KEVIN WHITE: Can you grab that poster board by you?
10:31:31 I'm just wondering in regard to that gentleman's
10:31:35 comment what you thought about that pork chop that was
10:31:40 there to -- any transportation ideas on that, good,
10:31:47 bad, indifferent?
10:31:48 >> Melanie Calloway, transportation, I was there when
10:31:52 he had the telephone conversation with the gentleman.
10:31:56 This pork chop in the public right-of-way would require
10:32:00 a -- our staff would have to look at that.
10:32:04 However, pork chops to eliminate the movement.
10:32:08 They probably try to help people from not making a
10:32:13 However, it is not impossible.
10:32:15 And as you guys who have been on Council for a while
10:32:19 know about pork chops in the vicinity of Henderson and
10:32:24 San Miguel and how they don't always deter people from
10:32:28 making the movement, we could entertain that.
10:32:30 However, to appropriately design it and things probably
10:32:34 would have to be at the developer's expense and they
10:32:39 would have to pull a right-of-way permit for that.
10:32:41 I can't really tell you because I haven't looked at it.
10:32:43 >>KEVIN WHITE: I was wondering if you thought that
10:32:45 would be a productive traffic maneuver that this
10:32:50 gentleman, Mr. Henson brought it up with his business
10:32:53 right across the street from that.
10:32:55 I was just wondering if you felt that that design would
10:32:57 be something that's viable and or even needed from a
10:33:02 transportation staff standpoint.
10:33:08 >> In my opinion, I understand what he's saying,
10:33:11 however, people who want to shop at the Publix who live
10:33:13 on Moody street, they would be hindered on getting to
10:33:17 this store to shop.
10:33:18 They would have to go all the way around and all the
10:33:20 way back up to their house, too.
10:33:22 They would be hindered.
10:33:24 So as many people you deter from making that, you also
10:33:27 make the people in the neighborhood trying to shop at
10:33:29 the store also hindered.
10:33:31 We could take a look at it if you would like us to take
10:33:34 a look at that.
10:33:35 >>KEVIN WHITE: I just wanted your expert opinion.
10:33:39 >> Like I said, pork chops do not eliminate the
10:33:42 May deter some, but will not eliminate it.
10:33:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: While you are there, the question
10:33:49 that somebody raised about funerals going down Platt, I
10:33:52 know that for a fact.
10:33:54 Do you anticipate an issue with queueing and stacking?
10:33:57 Have you looked at this and people have the ability to
10:33:59 get in and not back up on the street?
10:34:02 >> Yes, they did submit a traffic analysis for this
10:34:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: When they are coming on the Bayshore
10:34:08 one, they are off of that side street real fast.
10:34:17 >> If you have any transportation issues, our
10:34:19 consultant Randy Cohen is available to answer any
10:34:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You were consulting with your client
10:34:29 on the first floor.
10:34:32 I think in light of all the testimony, you know, if you
10:34:37 have some flexibility and you can save $4 million by
10:34:40 taking it back down to the first floor, I'd be leaning
10:34:46 to the first floor.
10:34:47 That's the way I heard about this Publix.
10:34:50 I was really excited.
10:34:51 You could walk in from the street level.
10:34:52 If you're going to drive in, you drive upstairs.
10:34:55 That would be my leaning as well.
10:35:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I spoke to Wilson Stair about this
10:35:04 in term of the urban design.
10:35:06 You all must have talked to Wilson Stair.
10:35:10 >> Several times.
10:35:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: He wanted it on the first floor,
10:35:13 As our urban designer.
10:35:17 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Again, it doesn't really matter to
10:35:19 Somebody tell me why it's so much more important to
10:35:21 have it on the first floor as opposed to the third
10:35:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Because pedestrians are on the
10:35:28 [ APPLAUSE ]
10:35:30 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Then you also give up the parking.
10:35:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No, you don't give up the parking.
10:35:34 It doesn't become available until 11:00 at night.
10:35:37 That's not when the problem is.
10:35:38 The problem is like 7:00 to 10:00.
10:36:03 >> Thank you for your indulgence.
10:36:04 I spoke with the client and their position is they
10:36:06 would agree to flip the store, so to speak and put the
10:36:09 retail on the ground floor with the understanding
10:36:11 there's absolutely no opportunity for the shared
10:36:13 parking arrangement on floors two and three.
10:36:18 It's not acceptable to Publix from a liability
10:36:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to close.
10:36:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, I think we have to continue.
10:36:25 >> We're going to have to continue this per code, a
10:36:27 minimum of two weeks, and a new site plan, if we do two
10:36:32 weeks, will have to be submitted by Monday at noon.
10:36:39 So you may want to do three weeks.
10:36:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Come back during the day.
10:36:44 >> We'll accept three weeks.
10:36:46 Here again, we're going to go through a lot of
10:36:48 gyrations and spend a lot of time and money to make
10:36:51 these changes.
10:36:51 If I had some kind of sense that the Council would be
10:36:54 supportive of our position.
10:36:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You'll have a motion in a second.
10:36:58 >>GWEN MILLER: And then you can have it in the morning.
10:37:00 >> Great.
10:37:01 Thanks very much.
10:37:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to support the site plan that's
10:37:07 going to come back with the store on the bottom floor
10:37:09 that would be continued for three weeks.
10:37:12 Well, to 10 a.m.
10:37:14 The 19th.
10:37:17 17th or 19th.
10:37:20 The 19th at 10 a.m.
10:37:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Also with 10:30 p.m. hours of
10:37:29 The hours of operation, period, has nothing to do with
10:37:32 the parking, nonparking.
10:37:34 It's just hours to operate a grocery store in that
10:37:44 >> Second.
10:37:44 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:37:46 All in favor of the motion, aye.
10:37:47 Opposed nay.
10:37:49 >>ROSE FERLITA: I'm supportive of it.
10:37:50 I just want to make a comment.
10:37:52 I'm sorry even though that opportunity is late that we
10:37:55 could have benefitted from the parking.
10:37:57 Obviously this is the only way it's going to go.
10:37:59 I support it as well under its current configuration.
10:38:10 >> Thank you very much.
10:38:10 Have a good evening.
10:38:11 Appreciate it.
10:38:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Are we going to hear from budget
10:38:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes, from budget.
10:38:18 >> Good evening, David Smith, City Attorney.
10:38:21 I would like to pass out to you the revised Exhibit A.
10:39:06 >> What I would like to do if we could, walk you
10:39:08 through the changes that have been made.
10:39:12 If you'll start on page one of four, you will see on
10:39:16 the top account, it's 82,298.
10:39:21 Rather than 142,298, that reflects the $60,000 taken
10:39:26 out for the ombudsman, the reduction was reduced by
10:39:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You were courteous enough to lend me
10:39:36 this exhibit about ten minutes ago, I compared it with
10:39:38 our motion.
10:39:39 And it meets -- would you all shut that door, please?
10:39:44 The new Exhibit A meets with the intent of the motion
10:39:46 line by line.
10:39:51 >>DAVID SMITH: That's accurate.
10:39:53 What we need to do, unless you want to take some time
10:39:55 to reconfirm that, but it does, we need to then have a
10:39:59 motion to approve the ordinance which will be read by
10:40:03 the title with the corrected current exhibit A.
10:40:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's item three on our agenda
10:40:14 >>DAVID SMITH: I don't have the agenda in front of me.
10:40:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll move it.
10:40:25 >>ROSE FERLITA: Just to keep -- just in keeping with my
10:40:28 position, I wanted to make a substitute motion.
10:40:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Go ahead.
10:40:31 >>ROSE FERLITA: Just make a substitute motion to
10:40:34 continue the hearing to a time certain to allow the
10:40:36 Mayor's office or Ms. Wise to provide the information I
10:40:38 requested regarding the location in the budget of the
10:40:41 28 million-dollar increase.
10:40:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Second?
10:40:48 >> Dies for lack of a second.
10:40:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Read it.
10:40:55 Go ahead.
10:40:57 >> Move and ordinance adopting the budget for fiscal
10:40:59 year beginning October 1, 2006 and ending
10:41:01 September 30th, 2007 as presented by the Mayor and
10:41:04 changed by City Council providing for the levy as
10:41:07 provided by the tax on all taxable property in the City
10:41:11 of Tampa and fixing the millage within said city making
10:41:14 appropriations in accordance with the provisions of
10:41:17 said budget authorizing and directing the Mayor and the
10:41:20 city clerk and the proper authorities of the City of
10:41:22 Tampa to certify the property appraiser, Hillsborough
10:41:26 County, Florida, the millage levied for all purposes of
10:41:29 the fiscal year 2007 in the City of Tampa, providing an
10:41:31 effective date.
10:41:32 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion --
10:41:35 >> With the amended exhibit A.
10:41:36 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:41:38 All in favor of the motion, aye.
10:41:43 >>ROSE FERLITA: I just want to put on the record I will
10:41:45 not support it because of the fact that we are going to
10:41:47 take the monies from the emergency fund.
10:41:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Roll call.
10:41:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
10:41:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
10:41:53 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Yes.
10:41:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
10:41:57 >>ROSE FERLITA: No.
10:41:59 >>KEVIN WHITE: Yes.
10:41:59 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried with Ferlita voting no
10:42:03 and Alvarez being absent.
10:42:04 >>DAVID SMITH: The last item of business is the
10:42:09 resolution approving the capital improvement budget.
10:42:13 >> Move the resolution.
10:42:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Question.
10:42:16 >>DAVID SMITH: You just have to read the title on this.
10:42:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Question.
10:42:20 I think the only change we made on the CIP budget was
10:42:23 the Bayshore generator, $350,000 item.
10:42:33 >> Yes.
10:42:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So that's included in the change
10:42:35 that we're approving tonight?
10:42:37 >>DAVID SMITH: It's attached to your new exhibit A, as
10:42:39 well, if you look there.
10:42:40 It's the last page of your --
10:42:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And I didn't really know what -- it
10:42:47 said Bayshore PS relief diversion.
10:42:50 I saw that yesterday.
10:42:53 PS, power station?
10:42:54 >>DAVID SMITH: Pump station.
10:42:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't know if that's -- is that
10:43:03 specific enough?
10:43:10 >> -- being used for the project.
10:43:13 I'm a conduit here.
10:43:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But it us that specifically -- I
10:43:16 mean, we specifically said that we only wanted it used
10:43:20 to go toward moving the building, the bunker, if the
10:43:25 administration could find a site.
10:43:27 >>DAVID SMITH: It's so restricted is what I'm being
10:43:30 told by budget, revenue and finance.
10:43:33 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Harrison, would you read the title.
10:43:35 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Item number 4, I move a resolution
10:43:37 adopting the City of Tampa capital improvement budget
10:43:40 and program for the fiscal years FY '2007 through FY
10:43:45 2012 as presented by the Mayor and as changed by City
10:43:48 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:43:49 All in favor of the motion, aye.
10:43:51 Opposed, nay.
10:43:52 [Motion Carried]
10:43:54 >>DAVID SMITH: Thank you very much.
10:43:54 >>GWEN MILLER: You're welcome.
10:43:55 >>DAVID SMITH: Now you have to close the hearing.
10:43:58 >> Close the public hearing.
10:43:59 >> Second.
10:44:00 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion, aye.
10:44:01 [Motion Carried]
10:44:10 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to open item number 12.
10:44:15 Motion and second.
10:44:16 All in favor of the motion, aye.
10:44:18 [Motion Carried]
10:44:19 >> Abbye is coming back.
10:44:25 She had to use the rest room.
10:44:27 >>GWEN MILLER: You can go ahead with it, too.
10:44:46 >> Z 06-83.
10:44:49 2503 North grove.
10:44:52 Actually, Kathy gave you mine and I have yours.
10:45:03 >>GWEN MILLER: She's just trying to be helpful.
10:45:28 >> The petitioner is requesting to zone from RM-24
10:45:32 residential multifamily to CM commercial neighborhood
10:45:34 to establish a walk-up ice cream shop.
10:45:40 There are other allowable uses on the site plan that
10:45:43 include restaurant with no inside seating, specialty
10:45:47 retail and store front.
10:45:51 They are asking for three waivers.
10:45:53 One to reduce the required greenspace by 180 square
10:45:57 And they will be doing payment in lieu to the trust
10:46:01 The second to allow nonresidential vehicle access to
10:46:04 North grove avenue.
10:46:06 And the third to reduce the required buffering along
10:46:08 the South property alley from a five-foot wide --
10:46:14 actually, that third waiver we're going to get taken
10:46:18 care of, the petitioner is actually going to take care
10:46:20 of the buffering on the South property alley.
10:46:25 The petitioner is proposing to rezone the property
10:46:27 located at 2503 North grove to enable the desired use
10:46:31 of the property ice cream shop.
10:46:33 The site plan states the allowable use on the property
10:46:36 limited to restaurant with no inside seating, specialty
10:46:38 retail and store front residential.
10:46:40 The property is located in the Tampa Heights historic
10:46:43 It's situated within an RM-24 zoning district along the
10:46:47 collector road, Columbus and surrounded by a mix of
10:46:50 single-family and multifamily residences.
10:46:52 A place of religious assembly and a park.
10:46:56 The CM site plan indicates that the existing structure
10:46:59 is two stories and a total of 1,056 square feet.
10:47:04 Four offstreet parking spaces will be provided.
10:47:22 >> The site is located on the corner of Grove and
10:47:26 And you can see the east side of the property is
10:47:29 interstate 275.
10:47:33 Here's a picture of the existing structure.
10:47:36 The intent is to leave the top as residential and make
10:47:41 the ice cream shop here on the bottom.
10:47:46 This is a picture of the parking area that will be
10:47:53 associated with the structure.
10:47:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Abbye, perhaps we just want to see
10:47:58 how this is received.
10:47:59 >> You got it.
10:48:10 Right now, one thing I mentioned before is the buffer.
10:48:13 The only thing isn't listed on the site plan.
10:48:16 That's the one item that would need to be taken care
10:48:19 Other than that, there are no objections on the case.
10:48:25 >> Tony Garcia, Planning Commission staff.
10:48:26 I have been sworn.
10:48:28 The only thing I think I want to add to this, Tampa
10:48:33 enterprise community area, so there are comp plan
10:48:36 policies that support small business development in
10:48:40 areas such as this along Columbus Drive.
10:48:43 The Planning Commission staff has no objections to the
10:48:44 proposed request.
10:48:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
10:48:54 >> Good evening, my name is John Dyer.
10:48:56 I've been sworn in.
10:48:58 My -- I'm going to read this.
10:49:00 I'm a little nervous.
10:49:01 My name is John Dyer.
10:49:02 My wife and I are the owners of the property at 2503
10:49:06 North grove.
10:49:07 My wife and I are very much interested in rezoning the
10:49:10 property from RM-24 to CN, neighborhood commercial.
10:49:15 With the interest in transforming the existing
10:49:17 structure at Columbus and grove to walk-up ice cream
10:49:21 shop that will focus on selling soft-serve ice creams,
10:49:24 custards, Italian ices, fountain can drinks, selection
10:49:29 of coffee and teas and selection of other accompanying
10:49:32 type treats.
10:49:33 There will be a small shaded garden patio style seating
10:49:38 area with limited seating of both street cafe tables
10:49:42 and benches.
10:49:43 The environment will be breezy, clean, comfortable and
10:49:47 shaded with the focus on greenery.
10:49:51 We feel -- and we believe the people who want to visit
10:49:54 the shop to select from a variety of cold treats and
10:49:57 drinks, relax with a nice cup of coffee or tea and
10:50:01 catch up on the news.
10:50:03 We intend to enhance the structure to reflect
10:50:06 Mediterranean themed appearance with features to
10:50:09 include a cobblestone patio, wrought iron fencing
10:50:12 accent, canvas windows and doored awnings, lighting
10:50:16 accessories and landscaping.
10:50:18 Any changes we make will be submitted in advance to the
10:50:22 Architectural Review Commission for their mandatory
10:50:24 review in order to receive a certificate of
10:50:27 We attended a public hearing with the Architectural
10:50:29 Review Commission on July 5th and received their
10:50:34 recommendation for approval of the request.
10:50:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Does anyone here want to speak against
10:50:42 item number 12?
10:50:43 >> Move to close.
10:50:48 >> Does this require a continuance in order to adjust
10:50:50 the site plan?
10:50:53 Because of the buffer issue.
10:50:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can we move to approve with the
10:50:56 inclusion of the note on the site plan?
10:51:00 >> (Not at microphone).
10:51:02 >> Move to close.
10:51:03 >> Motion and second to close.
10:51:04 All in favor of the motion, aye.
10:51:15 >> It's bedtime.
10:51:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The idea of ice cream at this hour
10:51:18 of the evening is very appealing.
10:51:20 Ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity of
10:51:22 2503 North grove avenue in the City of Tampa, Florida,
10:51:26 and more particularly described in section one from
10:51:28 zoning district classifications RM-24, residential
10:51:31 multifamily, to CN, commercial neighborhood, providing
10:51:34 an effective date.
10:51:35 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and a second.
10:51:36 All in favor of the motion, say aye.
10:51:38 Opposed, nay.
10:51:39 [Motion Carried]
10:51:40 Motion and second to open 14.
10:51:46 All in favor, aye.
10:51:47 [Motion Carried]
10:51:59 >> Z 06-87 is located at 1908, 1910, 1912 North A
10:52:12 The petitioner is requesting to rezone the property to
10:52:17 PD in order to construct 12 multifamily attached town
10:52:21 Structures will be three story with a height of 46 feet
10:52:27 with the arch feature and 38 feet without the arch
10:52:29 The two buildings will be accessed by a common drive in
10:52:32 the middle of the property.
10:52:34 The proposed buildings will be of the Mediterranean
10:52:38 revival style and setbacks will be 10 feet on all
10:52:42 Four units will front North A.
10:52:44 Four units will have alley access on the South side of
10:52:46 the property.
10:52:47 And four will face the center of the property.
10:52:52 There are one-story single-family structures which I'll
10:52:55 show you abutting the property on both sides as well as
10:52:58 the one-story and two-story family structures across
10:53:01 the street from the project site.
10:53:08 There's one planned development that's located just a
10:53:10 few blocks down that has multifamily attached -- I'm
10:53:14 sorry, at the end of the block that's multifamily
10:53:15 attached town home at the corner of North A and Albany
10:53:22 Based on the 12 units, 27 parking spaces will be
10:53:27 required including three guest spaces.
10:53:30 Each unit will have a two-car garage.
10:53:32 Required parking will be achieved through a combination
10:53:34 of the garage and the driveway parking spaces.
10:53:37 Staff does have objection to this development based on
10:53:45 the purpose criteria for the PD.
10:53:50 Let me just go over the site.
10:53:57 This is on North A facing North towards the lot.
10:54:02 This is the neighboring house to the East.
10:54:05 The single-family home, one story.
10:54:13 This is across the street.
10:54:14 It's a two-story home.
10:54:16 It's probably about 20, 26 feet, maybe a little larger,
10:54:21 so the proposed is 38 feet.
10:54:24 That would be substantially taller than the existing
10:54:29 structures in the surrounding area.
10:54:31 This is the neighborhood to the northeast.
10:54:36 This is actually the PD site that's under construction.
10:54:47 Here is the current site on North A.
10:54:50 This is Kennedy.
10:54:52 The other PD that is approved is over here at the
10:54:55 corner of Albany and North A.
10:55:01 Couple of other homes that are located in this
10:55:05 surrounding area.
10:55:15 On the design and you'll see in your packets, there is
10:55:18 an elevation package.
10:55:20 They only provided the front elevations on these
10:55:23 They provided two options on what those elevations
10:55:26 would be.
10:55:26 We right now don't have any context for how these
10:55:31 structures would be compatible with the surrounding
10:55:32 neighborhood, what's going on on the sides, how they
10:55:35 are being integrated.
10:55:37 So the integration of different land uses, which is one
10:55:40 of the criteria under 27321, we've talked to the
10:55:46 petitioner about the height and the design in order to
10:55:49 better integrate it, promote compatibility with the
10:55:52 surrounding neighborhood.
10:55:54 The proposed three stories are very tall.
10:55:59 They are not compatible with the one-story
10:56:01 single-family home.
10:56:02 And the limited elevations do not really allow us to
10:56:05 make a good determination of the compatibility of this
10:56:08 project with the surrounding neighborhood.
10:56:16 There are several waivers.
10:56:17 There are two waivers.
10:56:19 One for on-site tree replacement and the other for
10:56:25 on-site greenspace requirement.
10:56:29 They are asking to waive the on-site greenspace
10:56:31 requirement of 3,905 square feet.
10:56:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can I ask a question?
10:56:36 That amount of square footage -- is that the entire
10:56:40 greenspace requirement?
10:56:43 >> I believe so, yes.
10:56:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Are we even allowed to waive that
10:56:46 >> I'm going to defer to Mary on that.
10:56:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I had a question.
10:56:51 The drawing, the elevation shows between the two
10:56:57 buildings, it shows what appears to be -- but in
10:57:05 reality, isn't it just a driveway with --
10:57:10 >> Yes, sir.
10:57:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: How would that work?
10:57:15 >> Artistic license.
10:57:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It's a rhetorical question.
10:57:19 >> Mary, do you want to talk to the greenspace?
10:57:33 >> I have been sworn.
10:57:35 They are required to do 9,000 square feet of
10:57:38 greenspace, 750 square feet per dwelling unit.
10:57:43 They are providing 5881.
10:57:47 Not a total waiver of the greenspace.
10:57:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Planning Commission staff?
10:57:55 >> Tony Garcia, Planning Commission staff.
10:57:57 I have been sworn in.
10:58:03 I'm going to briefly go over the land use categories in
10:58:06 the area to give you a better perspective.
10:58:07 Kennedy Boulevard predominantly is all urban mixed use
10:58:12 This is residential 35, these colors over here, and
10:58:16 then the transition in density goes down to residential
10:58:20 20 once you get to North B street.
10:58:21 This is community mixed use 35 over here along this
10:58:24 portion of Westland between Westland and Albany street.
10:58:30 Ms. Feeley had talked about this particular development
10:58:34 which had come before Council and was actually approved
10:58:38 earlier this past year for a 16-unit multifamily
10:58:41 I think what was significant about this is this is the
10:58:44 first development of its type East of Howard Avenue,
10:58:48 North of Kennedy Boulevard that has been approved for
10:58:51 this type of development, this particular project that
10:58:54 you have already previously approved.
10:58:55 And I think what we have stated in discussing this
10:58:58 particular project when came forward to you all was the
10:59:02 fact that this is on the South side of North A which
10:59:05 directly interfaces to Kennedy Boulevard.
10:59:07 I think most of the concern that people had in
10:59:09 discussing things along this with the comprehensive
10:59:11 plan talks about is to allow this type of development
10:59:14 on the edge of mature residential neighborhoods because
10:59:17 that's where your density is, as I had stated, this is
10:59:21 residential 35 as is this block.
10:59:23 And the residential transitions down to residential 20.
10:59:28 This color over here is general mixed use 24.
10:59:31 As you all are also very -- if we're looking at the
10:59:34 development trends in the area and we pretty much know
10:59:37 how it's developed residentially on the South side of
10:59:41 Kennedy Boulevard, this particular area based on this
10:59:44 density, the trend on this side of North A and I think
10:59:47 I recall, Mr. Dingfelder, you making a comment to make
10:59:50 sure when we did this particular project over here, the
10:59:53 concern about the proliferation of this type of
10:59:56 development further into the neighborhood to the North.
10:59:58 So what I would recommend, you at least take into
11:00:03 consideration where this development or this type of
11:00:05 development is relative to the residential -- overall
11:00:08 residential neighborhood.
11:00:09 One more thing I just want to make a comment on is,
11:00:13 there's already been a significant residential
11:00:16 development that's been brought to you at the last
11:00:18 meeting just to the East over here where you had done a
11:00:22 plan amendment -- I can't remember the name of the
11:00:32 >> The development that just came to you for about 400
11:00:35 residential units is just to the East of this site over
11:00:39 >> How far?
11:00:41 >> This is Fremont.
11:00:41 It would be the next street over.
11:00:47 It's one block West of Rome.
11:00:56 The long and short of it, fairly close proximity to
11:00:59 where this is and we're talking about at least an
11:01:02 11-acre site.
11:01:04 You have a significant residential redevelopment trend
11:01:06 going on over there.
11:01:07 Plus, we just received as a plan amendment request
11:01:09 additional 8.5 acres not too far from here, too.
11:01:12 So you're going to be seeing significant residential
11:01:15 redevelopment trend in this area.
11:01:17 The Planning Commission staff has no objection to the
11:01:19 proposed request based on the location and the
11:01:22 redevelopment trend in the area.
11:01:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Saul-Sena.
11:01:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
11:01:25 Question for city staff.
11:01:26 Don't we have a requirement currently that a person has
11:01:29 to show us the elevation of all four sides?
11:01:38 >> That's for the central business district only right
11:01:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: AH.
11:01:43 Thank you.
11:01:55 >> Good evening, Council, John Marshall, Holland and
11:01:58 Knight LLP, 100 North Tampa Street.
11:02:00 I have been sworn.
11:02:01 Thank you for bearing with us this evening, Council,
11:02:04 for this last item on the agenda.
11:02:06 We appreciate it and we're excited to be here.
11:02:08 I'm here on behalf of the applicant and the land owner,
11:02:14 Helfand development LLC, also here this evening are the
11:02:17 members of our team, David minceberg and Ken depolts.
11:02:21 Mitch Newman is the third principal in the firm.
11:02:23 He's not able to be here tonight.
11:02:25 JD of sick more engineering, architect Gary Clayton,
11:02:30 LaRocca consulting and Jim Shimberg of Holland and
11:02:36 As Abbye had mentioned, the owner seeked permission to
11:02:40 rezone the property in the 1900 block of North A to PD
11:02:43 from RM-16.
11:02:44 And at this time, we would like to hand out copies of
11:02:47 renderings, councilman Saul-Sena that will help give
11:02:51 you an idea of some of the other elevations on the
11:02:54 other side.
11:02:57 So, John, thank you very much.
11:02:58 I would like to preface my remarks just by say building
11:03:01 minceberg and members of Helfand have worked and done
11:03:06 development work elsewhere.
11:03:07 They are new to Tampa but this is their home and they
11:03:09 are very excited about being here and they are excited
11:03:12 about this neighborhood.
11:03:13 They think it's really an exceptional location.
11:03:16 The renderings you are seeing just show and reflect a
11:03:19 serious dialogue that's occurred over the past several
11:03:22 months between Helfand and members of the neighborhood
11:03:25 because they felt that it was critical that the
11:03:27 neighborhood participate in the design and that they
11:03:29 get feedback and that that feedback be answered not
11:03:33 just with their own response but with architect
11:03:36 involved and architect directed feedback.
11:03:39 Mr. Clayton is here as well tonight, but he has been
11:03:42 critical in the process and the principals have made
11:03:44 sure he's front and center in this process.
11:03:47 One of the reasons why the applicants are so excited
11:03:50 about this project is the neighborhood.
11:03:53 As you know, one mile West of downtown, as Abbye and
11:03:59 Mr. Garcia just showed to you.
11:04:01 The yellow parcels right here.
11:04:05 It's also one block off of the Kennedy Boulevard
11:04:10 And, in fact, our parcel backs up on and really touches
11:04:13 that corridor by virtue of touching the alley.
11:04:16 Kennedy, of course, is that important spine that you've
11:04:19 talked about so recently, Council, between the downtown
11:04:22 business district and Westshore.
11:04:24 The intense commercial uses in the hopes for the
11:04:26 pedestrian uses that will be there and the interesting
11:04:29 commercial uses and business uses already popping up
11:04:32 along that corridor.
11:04:34 We feel that these town homes are going to contribute
11:04:36 to that vibrant pedestrian environment, that you're
11:04:41 already looking for and trying to promote there.
11:04:43 We also think that it's uniquely positioned to take
11:04:47 advantage of the transportation opportunities that
11:04:51 bicycle, pedestrian opportunities, the public
11:04:54 transportation opportunities along Kennedy.
11:04:58 We are one house lot removed from the North Hyde Park
11:05:01 city homes which is the PD here.
11:05:03 We're just taken the liberty to draw it in, the city
11:05:06 zoning maps were not quite caught up, but this PD right
11:05:09 here is the Hyde Park, North Hyde Park city homes.
11:05:15 And it's around the corner, of course, from the Solomon
11:05:17 law offices that are on the corner of Fremont and
11:05:22 And it's about a block, as Mr. Garcia was saying from
11:05:27 the industrial -- the beginning of the industrial area,
11:05:30 some of which I know will be redeveloped as part of the
11:05:33 Moren development as you move further east.
11:05:37 The applicant began reaching out to the neighborhood
11:05:44 very early on in the process.
11:05:45 And I'm going to allow at the end of my presentation,
11:05:48 David minceberg to come forward and tell you about how
11:05:50 the process began to move forward.
11:05:53 But I want to take a chance just to talk about the
11:05:55 staff report quickly and the objections that are
11:05:58 There was, of course, the technical landscape
11:06:00 objection, and then there are the compatibility
11:06:03 concerns that Ms. Feeley mentioned.
11:06:08 I'm going to touch briefly on each.
11:06:10 First, with respect to compatibility, staff has
11:06:13 examined the compatibility issue on the lot lines, both
11:06:17 to the East and West, noting that there are
11:06:19 single-family houses on either side.
11:06:21 And this is true that the town homes are going to be
11:06:24 taller than the neighboring single-family homes.
11:06:27 But there are, of course, a number of Tampa
11:06:29 neighborhoods where you do have town homes that are
11:06:31 next to single-family homes with the three story, one
11:06:35 story mix.
11:06:35 Of course, just one lot away, now that we have the 16
11:06:41 unit development, will also be -- will have a three
11:06:46 story, one-story mix there.
11:06:47 It is a block in transition.
11:06:50 And so this -- we feel that though there may be a story
11:06:55 difference that there is overall compatibility here on
11:06:58 the block.
11:07:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: If this says this is 46 feet,
11:07:05 possible to have a three-story building 30 feet, how
11:07:09 come this is so particularly tall?
11:07:10 >> I'm glad you raised that, councilman.
11:07:13 Let me speak to that right away.
11:07:14 It is at 46 feet.
11:07:15 In working with the neighborhood, one of the features
11:07:18 that the neighbors talked about was the hip roof that
11:07:22 you see that only appears on the North elevation that
11:07:24 you see from North A and it increases the height of the
11:07:28 structure from 38 feet to about 46 feet.
11:07:31 So we realized that it does just adding that tile hip
11:07:34 roof that you see from -- if you were looking standing
11:07:36 in North bay and looking towards Kennedy, you have that
11:07:40 additional elevation of about eight to ten feet.
11:07:45 36 -- 36 is the height of the parapet wall.
11:07:49 If you --
11:07:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: How much fill is it built on.
11:07:53 A normal story is maybe ten feet.
11:07:57 You're saying it's 38 feet and then the parapet.
11:08:00 >> It's 38 feet to the parapet.
11:08:02 So the hip roof takes it to 46.
11:08:07 And top of the parapet wall that you see across the
11:08:10 front of the project is 38 feet.
11:08:12 And then you go to 46 with that tile hipped roof.
11:08:20 >> So the single-family residences on the North side of
11:08:24 North A that face South toward Kennedy, if they are
11:08:31 sitting on their front porch would be looking at a
11:08:34 46-foot town home.
11:08:38 >> Councilman, actually at one point, let me describe
11:08:41 the elevation, I know it's harder for me to speak about
11:08:43 it in words.
11:08:45 Here looking and thank you, David, very much.
11:09:11 Councilwoman Saul-Sena, and councilman White, right
11:09:14 here we're at 38 feet.
11:09:17 When we go to the top of the architectural feature
11:09:19 which is the hip roof here, we are at 46 feet.
11:09:24 The only reason why -- the principal reason why that
11:09:28 feature is there is that the neighbors really like that
11:09:31 look of approaching North A.
11:09:34 In a moment, I was going to say that we understand in
11:09:37 the dialogue with staff that there is a concern about
11:09:40 being at 46.
11:09:43 Although we noted the neighbors like that feature, we
11:09:46 would be willing to go to -- essentially take that
11:09:50 feature off and have more of a flush front without that
11:09:53 additional eight feet.
11:09:54 We prefer to keep it, but, of course, understanding
11:09:57 that if that is going to help address the compatibility
11:10:00 concerns, we would do that.
11:10:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: How tall are your rooms on the
11:10:07 second and third floor?
11:10:08 Obviously, garage is a garage.
11:10:11 How tall are the second and third floor?
11:10:14 >> Councilman Dingfelder, I have to ask the architect
11:10:17 just to make sure.
11:10:17 And I can do that.
11:10:19 If you would like, we can circle back on this question.
11:10:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: In this picture, especially the
11:10:25 third floor appears to be pretty darn tall.
11:10:28 I think that's what is pushing the basic building up
11:10:30 before you even get to the architectural feature.
11:10:34 >> May I make a note of that and we'll circle that at
11:10:37 the end?
11:10:40 >> Before you move on, that would be a basic elevation
11:10:43 without the parapet.
11:10:44 >> That's right.
11:10:46 >> Yes, this would be without the parapet.
11:10:58 >> So this would be the elevation without the hip roof.
11:11:02 Mr. Minceberg would like to just address this quickly.
11:11:05 >> Good evening.
11:11:06 Just really quickly, it's a matter of design versus
11:11:11 Obviously, this year, the majority of the structure is
11:11:15 38 feet as John mentioned.
11:11:18 But in talking to Mr. Allen and people from the
11:11:21 neighborhood, they prefer this design feature something
11:11:24 that they liked.
11:11:25 So I don't think it's going to be a matter of, you
11:11:27 know, a big 46-foot structure amassing the people
11:11:32 across the street.
11:11:33 Just this one small little detail.
11:11:35 So it's a matter of design versus height.
11:11:37 We happen to like this design a little better along
11:11:39 with the neighborhood.
11:11:42 And, you know, could very easily, though, if it was a
11:11:45 problem, go to this elevation.
11:11:49 >> Mr. Minceberg, could you answer my question about
11:11:50 the height of the ceilings?
11:11:54 >> My architect, Gary Clayton can answer that.
11:11:57 We're 10 feet third floor?
11:12:10 >> Gary Clayton, Clayton design group, Brooksville.
11:12:15 Basically, the lower level, the garage level has a
11:12:19 10-foot ceiling.
11:12:20 This is proposed at this point to be an all masonry
11:12:23 construction building.
11:12:25 The second floor, the main living area would also have
11:12:29 10-foot ceilings.
11:12:32 And the third floor, which is primarily bedrooms, would
11:12:36 also have a 10-foot ceiling.
11:12:39 Now, that totals 30 feet.
11:12:42 We do have approximately 18 to 24 inches at each floor
11:12:49 for the floor structure.
11:12:50 And then we have a parapet wall that's actually a
11:12:56 little bit flexible.
11:12:57 Right now, it's at three and a half feet, which brings
11:13:00 us up to the 38 feet.
11:13:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
11:13:07 Thank you.
11:13:16 >> One sort of additional cap to that discussion, RM-16
11:13:18 district, 35 feet would be the ordinary cap on height.
11:13:22 And so without the hip roof, we feel we'd really be
11:13:26 approximating that height limitation that would be
11:13:30 allowed the RM-16.
11:13:32 So in other words, someone could come along and build a
11:13:34 structure there and go to 35 feet.
11:13:38 So we feel like we're very close and we would be in the
11:13:41 spirit of that district with the height without the hip
11:13:45 As I started, one point Ms. Feeley made, looking purely
11:13:55 at the lot lines, we are an extra single-family -- we
11:13:58 are next to single-family residential houses.
11:14:00 Construed just a little more broadly, though, we feel
11:14:03 like we are in a quintessential transitional block and
11:14:06 critical transitional block where some redevelopment is
11:14:09 going on now, but also because of the proximity to
11:14:12 Kennedy, one that we feel is important in adding energy
11:14:16 to Kennedy Boulevard and where the density is also
11:14:22 Moving now to the landscaping technical objection.
11:14:26 And then also the request for the greenspace waiver.
11:14:31 With respect to the landscape objection, we take
11:14:33 seriously the responsibility of having trees on-site
11:14:37 and knowing how important trees are.
11:14:40 North Bay is a beautiful street.
11:14:43 We are saving 52-inch oak and another oak tree.
11:14:48 The trees we replace, 50% of those trees will be
11:14:51 four-inch caliber trees as opposed to the standard
11:14:54 two-inch caliber tree that ordinarily is required for
11:14:57 placement on site.
11:14:58 In addition, we also wanted to give back the trees and
11:15:05 green area to the neighborhoods to the extent that we
11:15:06 The site plan reflects our commitment to add 15 trees
11:15:10 to the neighborhood either on North bay or another spot
11:15:13 where the Neighborhood Association decides that it
11:15:16 would be appropriate to have those trees.
11:15:20 With respect to the greenspace waiver, a key is design.
11:15:24 And we feel that we've worked hard with the
11:15:26 neighborhood to achieve a design in the Mediterranean
11:15:30 revival style that is the type of design that sets and
11:15:35 continues a good design -- if it sets a good design
11:15:38 precedent for the neighborhood, and with the vehicular
11:15:42 and pedestrian courtyard that we have in the middle
11:15:45 that we've got a critical structure that's going to add
11:15:50 to the transitional nature of that Kennedy Boulevard
11:15:55 North Bay neighborhood.
11:15:56 We don't feel that there's prejudice to the surrounding
11:15:58 property owners because the 10-foot side yard setbacks.
11:16:02 We have greenspace in the side yards.
11:16:05 We are adding the trees to the neighborhood that we
11:16:07 feel is an important commitment to keeping the
11:16:10 neighborhood as green as it can be.
11:16:16 With respect to the intent of the code, we feel this is
11:16:19 a particular location here so close to Kennedy that the
11:16:23 moderate density that's proposed there to take
11:16:27 advantage of the transportation offerings on Kennedy,
11:16:30 pedestrian, bicycle, vehicular and otherwise, that it's
11:16:35 an appropriate request for the moderate amount of
11:16:38 greenspace that we're requiring to be waived.
11:16:40 And with that, I'm here to answer your questions.
11:16:44 And I would like to ask David minceberg if he could
11:16:47 come back just for a minute to talk a little bit about
11:16:50 coming to the neighborhood and his reaching out to the
11:16:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Let me see if there's any opposition.
11:16:56 Is there anyone in the public want to speak on item
11:16:58 number 14?
11:17:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The petitioner said he was
11:17:05 entertaining questions.
11:17:07 Guest spaces, our new code requires -- our code now
11:17:19 requires guest spaces I guess you calculated it as
11:17:22 being three spaces.
11:17:23 I don't see that on the site plan specifically.
11:17:26 >> The parking provided are two garage spaces and two
11:17:30 So essentially it would be four spaces per unit.
11:17:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Where?
11:17:35 >> The garage spaces -- councilman Dingfelder, you can
11:17:46 see the garages here accommodate two cars.
11:17:50 There are two spaces --
11:17:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You can stack them before you get to
11:17:53 the sidewalk?
11:17:55 >> There are two parking spaces to stack behind the
11:17:59 garage before you get to the sidewalk.
11:18:00 That's correct.
11:18:07 >> Good evening.
11:18:08 Unfortunately, I have not been sworn in.
11:18:22 (Oath administered by clerk).
11:18:31 >> Yes, I do.
11:18:33 My name is Robert Allen.
11:18:35 301 North Fremont.
11:18:36 And I'm here tonight wearing two hats.
11:18:41 First of all, I'm here representing the North Hyde Park
11:18:45 Civic Association, and I want to tell you what
11:18:48 happened, what transpired in our meetings that we held
11:18:52 with the petitioner.
11:18:58 In our first and only meeting with them at my home, the
11:19:04 issue was density.
11:19:07 No one wanted to see a large building or a building
11:19:14 that would accommodate a large group of people.
11:19:23 It was so involved, we didn't discuss a lot of things
11:19:28 that you have just discussed.
11:19:33 And I cannot truly stand here and approve anything but
11:19:42 what I feel.
11:19:46 As the president of the North Hyde Park Civic
11:19:48 Association, I can tell you that the community that
11:19:53 came to the meeting and we felt a meeting for the
11:19:56 entire community and about 60 people showed up, out of
11:20:01 the 60, more than 50 voted against the expansion from
11:20:09 eight, which is under the RM-16 to 12 units.
11:20:21 What they envisioned is that we were going to end up at
11:20:29 North A with a corridor of large buildings.
11:20:37 And, of course, they voted against it.
11:20:44 Speaking for myself as a member of the community, not
11:20:47 the president of the civic group, I support them going
11:20:53 from eight to twelve.
11:20:57 Truly, I really don't think that would really enhance
11:21:03 or take away anything that's there now.
11:21:09 Practically all the buildings are gone.
11:21:11 There's only one building on the South side.
11:21:13 So what they would be doing is creating a new
11:21:17 neighborhood I don't want to get myself in trouble with
11:21:22 my members.
11:21:26 So I would have to say that my community does not
11:21:30 support the move from eight to twelve units.
11:21:37 And their reason is because of high density.
11:21:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:21:49 >> Good evening.
11:21:50 I have been sworn.
11:21:50 My name is Ed Campbell.
11:21:52 I am with the law firm of Labarber and Campbell.
11:21:56 Our office is at 1907 West Kennedy Boulevard, which is
11:22:00 South across the alley from the proposed unit.
11:22:04 My concern is the density also with regard to 12 units
11:22:10 I don't know if you all have had the opportunity to go
11:22:12 to the two lots.
11:22:13 There used to be two houses and they were small houses.
11:22:16 They were taken out, and now they want to put 12 units
11:22:20 in there.
11:22:20 And in my opinion, I think it's too many units.
11:22:23 I think an eight-unit would be much better.
11:22:28 As we were talking about the PD down at Albany and
11:22:32 North A, that's 16 units on probably three times the
11:22:39 And I just think the proposed project is to small for
11:22:44 the -- too small for the land there.
11:22:50 Secondly, we are across the alley.
11:22:52 They are proposing that four of the units have access
11:22:56 to their units through the alley.
11:22:57 And that's the only way they are going to be able to
11:23:00 get in.
11:23:00 This is an alley that is very small, garbage trucks
11:23:05 have a hard time going down it.
11:23:06 I've talked with Mr. Marshall.
11:23:08 He says that they are going to improve the alley.
11:23:10 The problem is, they cannot widen it.
11:23:13 They may be able to resurface it, but they are not
11:23:17 going to be able to widen it.
11:23:19 And it's very hard now without them to traverse the
11:23:25 alley if somebody is coming down, they've got to pull
11:23:28 over for the other people to go through.
11:23:33 It's just a bad situation with regard to that alley.
11:23:35 And I'm concerned about the people that buy those back
11:23:39 units that front the alley.
11:23:41 They are going to have a hard time getting in and
11:23:43 getting out.
11:23:46 They also have a situation where directly behind them
11:23:54 is an auto repair business that they are shuffling cars
11:23:58 in and out of there all day long.
11:24:00 In fact, they are using this lot that the proposed
11:24:03 place is going to go on as a storage unit during the
11:24:07 And when that gets built, they are going to have to
11:24:10 move all those down the block.
11:24:12 It's just going to cause more problems.
11:24:16 I'm not necessarily against the project.
11:24:18 I just think the density is too large, considering the
11:24:22 land and considering the access through the alley.
11:24:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Sir, tell me again where your
11:24:28 property is and what's on it.
11:24:31 >> We have a law office.
11:24:32 I've been there since 1983.
11:24:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Where is it in relation to the --
11:24:40 >> We are -- we're on the South side across the alley.
11:24:55 This is the unit and here's the alley.
11:24:58 And this is our place right here.
11:25:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: You're fronting on Kennedy
11:25:02 >> Yes, we front Kennedy Boulevard.
11:25:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you very much.
11:25:05 >> And again, our access to our unit is through the
11:25:08 back alley as most of the other ones are.
11:25:12 Thank you.
11:25:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:25:17 >> My name is Keith Peteen, 1737 West North A street.
11:25:22 I'm the vice president of the Civic Association.
11:25:26 And I have been sworn in.
11:25:28 Myself and my wife were out of the country during this
11:25:31 big meeting with the neighborhood, but we own the three
11:25:36 houses in the next block down which is directly behind
11:25:39 Solomon trop.
11:25:42 Solomon trop is something we very much welcome to our
11:25:45 neighborhood, and it's 46 feet.
11:25:47 And I don't mind looking at that as opposed to what I
11:25:50 used to look at.
11:25:53 We look at this as a transition from commercial into a
11:25:57 residential neighborhood.
11:25:58 We've always envisioned that we were going to have town
11:26:01 homes and we very much welcome the town homes coming to
11:26:05 our neighborhood, especially when they jump Kennedy.
11:26:09 It took Solomon trop to get developers to come across
11:26:13 Kennedy and show interest across Kennedy.
11:26:16 North A street unlike any of the other streets in the
11:26:19 neighborhood because it has 150 -- 151-foot setback
11:26:24 instead of a hundred foot like the rest of the
11:26:27 So North A street has more space than the rest of the
11:26:34 The initial concerns when they came to the neighborhood
11:26:36 when they spoke to us, they came to us right up front.
11:26:39 The neighborhood has always expressed our concerns for
11:26:42 parking because we did not want to be like South Tampa
11:26:46 with the cars on the streets.
11:26:48 They went out of their way to address the parking
11:26:52 But to do that, this affects the greenspace.
11:26:56 Parking was more important to us as a neighborhood than
11:27:00 the greenspace, because we did not want the cars piled
11:27:03 up on the streets.
11:27:04 And they provided more parking spaces than what's
11:27:07 required by the city.
11:27:10 Also the design.
11:27:11 The design of the building has been approved and was a
11:27:16 design that was desired by the neighborhood.
11:27:20 One of the things I wanted to correct from the last
11:27:23 speaker, three lots, not two lots that they can be
11:27:26 building on.
11:27:27 And this is one single-family residence earlier set as
11:27:33 a single story to the rest of it and that's a two
11:27:36 story, not a single story.
11:27:38 There's going to be one residence which is actually a
11:27:41 triplex that is to the East of it that will be left,
11:27:46 and that's rented out as three units.
11:27:51 The two houses at the end of the block which are on
11:27:55 Fremont are owned by Solomon trop and future plan to
11:28:01 possibly become a financial complex tied in at the end
11:28:04 of the block.
11:28:06 The next block down is all commercial.
11:28:09 Solomon trop has most of that block and then on the
11:28:13 other side of North A, my houses, only four residents.
11:28:17 I own three of them and there's one small single story
11:28:21 and then it's vacant lots and commercial property.
11:28:25 So what I'm looking at is something very much different
11:28:28 than the rest of the neighborhood that's concerned that
11:28:32 these giant things.
11:28:34 I'm looking at this transition from commercial to
11:28:38 I'm very much in favor of the project, and four more
11:28:44 units as long as they took care of the parking spaces
11:28:47 is not a concern of mine.
11:28:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:29:01 >> I'm Debra Peteen.
11:29:02 I have been sworn in.
11:29:05 Live on West North A street.
11:29:06 Member of the North Hyde Park Civic Association and on
11:29:09 the board and lived in the area for 21 years.
11:29:12 The three houses that we have are all two stories.
11:29:16 All have ten to twelve foot ceilings inside and they
11:29:17 equal at least 30 to 35 feet.
11:29:21 North A is one block North of Kennedy and it abuts the
11:29:24 commercial, so we look forward to the town homes being
11:29:29 on that street and on that side of the street to be as
11:29:33 a wall from the commercial to the residential.
11:29:35 We are not looking forward to having our neighborhood
11:29:38 flooded with town homes as the South end has had a
11:29:43 problem with, but we are looking forward to them along
11:29:46 that area.
11:29:48 I'm in favor of the town homes, and I think that it
11:29:52 would be an asset to the alleyway as far as being
11:29:55 positive traffic flow instead of a negative that a lot
11:29:58 of times we get off of Kennedy Boulevard.
11:30:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
11:30:05 >> I had a question, ma'am, did you and your husband
11:30:08 attend the meeting that Mr. Allen -- oh, you were out
11:30:13 of town.
11:30:13 >> We went to one of the board meetings and then after
11:30:16 that they scheduled another meeting.
11:30:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
11:30:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Before he begins his rebuttal, can I
11:30:24 ask a question?
11:30:25 I'm looking at the side elevation.
11:30:29 I'm wondering what is the length of the building and
11:30:32 what is the length of the lot?
11:30:37 >> Hold on one second, councilwoman.
11:30:39 We'll get an answer to that.
11:30:40 And while we're getting an answer to that, I just
11:30:43 wanted to make two quick points, if I may,
11:30:46 One is that the eight to twelve unit size, what was
11:30:50 critical to our client is that 12 units really makes
11:30:53 the project economical and allows us to operate at a
11:30:57 much more reasonable price point for those who are in
11:30:59 the community and those generally here in Tampa --
11:31:06 >> Going to be affordable housing.
11:31:08 >> Well, more attainable -- we hope, you know, as
11:31:12 attainable as possible.
11:31:13 But it definitely, the 12 units we believe is really
11:31:16 going to help us make the project work well and offer
11:31:19 some --
11:31:21 >> Going to be the average square footage.
11:31:26 >> At the same time we answer the dimension question,
11:31:27 I'll give you varying square footages.
11:31:34 Second point, with respect to the neighborhood meeting
11:31:36 that occurred, as Mr. Minceberg will tell you, if you
11:31:43 had a chance to interact with the neighbors which has
11:31:46 been super.
11:31:46 Just at that one meeting -- Mr. Allen has been great
11:31:50 and wonderful.
11:31:50 And we feel very lucky to be working with someone like
11:31:53 Bob Allen.
11:31:55 It's just at that meeting they didn't want us to attend
11:31:57 and speak.
11:31:58 So we haven't actually had the opportunity to really
11:32:00 explain to the neighbors why we want to do what we're
11:32:03 going to do and even what it would look like if there
11:32:06 were eight units.
11:32:08 By right if eight units without a PD rezoning it might
11:32:12 look different and not function as well.
11:32:14 We think there are some advantages, but we haven't had
11:32:16 a chance to share that.
11:32:18 So we just wanted to let you know that.
11:32:20 With that, we'll get the answers on the dimension and
11:32:23 square footage questions, and I would like to allow
11:32:28 David minceberg to come forward.
11:32:29 >> Thank you, again.
11:32:30 I know it's getting late.
11:32:32 The building is 90 feet deep.
11:32:34 Lot is 150 feet deep.
11:32:35 So we have a good amount of space there.
11:32:39 In the beginning of the project, we obviously knew that
11:32:41 the stakeholders involved were obviously city staff,
11:32:46 ourselves and most importantly the community.
11:32:48 We reached out to Bob originally back in April.
11:32:50 We spent a lot of time with Bob driving around from
11:32:53 neighborhood to neighborhood looking at design ideas.
11:32:56 He pointed out to us the things he did like, didn't
11:32:59 like, parking concerns, design concerns, et cetera, et
11:33:04 And we, you know, after many meetings with Bob, we came
11:33:08 up with the plan that we thought was represented, what
11:33:11 the neighborhood was looking for.
11:33:13 Prior to this meeting, mid August, around -- either
11:33:16 August 16th or 17th, my partner Ken attended a
11:33:19 meeting in bob's home with members of the Council.
11:33:21 At that time, we heard no concerns about there being 12
11:33:25 units and main concerns were again about parking, which
11:33:29 we addressed immediately and garbage pickup, which we
11:33:32 addressed immediately as well.
11:33:33 Shortly thereafter, we had two elevations, and there
11:33:38 was supposed to be a meeting where the Council people,
11:33:41 where the Council -- excuse me, not the Council, the
11:33:44 board members were to vote on the elevations.
11:33:47 Now, at the initial meeting, Bob, correct me if I'm
11:33:51 wrong, 17 people there, about 17 or so.
11:34:01 At the initial board meeting, there were 12 people.
11:34:03 And at that point, we heard nothing about there being
11:34:06 an objection to our 12 units.
11:34:09 Then shortly thereafter there was another meeting we
11:34:13 asked if we could attend to answer questions.
11:34:17 Our concern has been working with the community.
11:34:18 That's been our intention from the beginning.
11:34:20 They told us we could not attend the meeting.
11:34:23 After the meeting to our surprise they told us they no