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Tampa City Council
Thursday, November 16, 2006
9:00 a.m. Session

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[Sounding gavel]
(9:22 a.m.)
>>GWEN MILLER: Tampa City Council is called to order.
The chair will yield to Rose Ferlita.
>>ROSE FERLITA: You wait for the last day to do that.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Madam Chairman, colleagues, ladies and gentlemen.
Good morning.
It is my pleasure this morning to ask you to join
myself and pastor Kerry Nance, the pastor of south

side Baptist church, has been so for three years, and
he has been a chaplain for Tampa Police Department for
one and a half years.
I thought it was appropriate to ask him to join me as
we are going to be doing our last police Officer of
the Month before we depart.
Pastor, thank you for joining me.
I would ask everybody to please stand.
As the pastor leads us in prayer.
And remain standing as he leads us in the pledge of
allegiance.
>>> Let us pray.
Our father, we are so grateful today that we are here,
and Lord we thank you for your love.
Lord, we thank you for America and just how you
blessed this country.
Lord, how we are able to decide to vote and the
freedoms you have given to us.
Lord, today we just pray that you would be with
officials and those that have been elected, Lord, as
they lead and make decisions.
We ask that you would give them wisdom and, Lord, that

you would put your hand upon them and protect them.
Lord, we pray for Ms. Ferlita, Lord, that she is
moving on and today is her last day, that you bless
her, Lord, as she continues to go on and serve.
And Lord, we want to pray for those that put their
lives in harm's way for us.
Lord, we think of our police officers.
We think of our firemen.
Lord, we think of our soldiers that are abroad.
Lord, we know that safety is not always in tanks and
helmets but we know that safety is from you.
So we do ask that you would put your hand upon these
people, these men and women that bravely serve.
God, we pray that you will protect them.
Father, we pray that you would always keep us free.
And Lord, we ask this in Jesus name.
Amen.
[ Pledge of Allegiance ]
67 roll call.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
>>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
>>SHAWN HARRISON: Here.

>>MARY ALVAREZ: Here.
>>ROSE FERLITA: Here.
>>KEVIN WHITE: Here.
>>GWEN MILLER: Here.
>>GWEN MILLER: Here we go again to Ms. Rose Ferlita.
>>ROSE FERLITA: It's certainly a bittersweet moment as
I thank Chairman Miller for this opportunity for many,
many months and being able to in some small way
represent our colleagues and the people that we
represent in saying thanks to TPD and to the Officer
of the Month.
I understand that Chief Holder, and Chief Castor is
with me today, and she and I join together to say
thanks to our Officer of the Month.
If you want to say how we chose the person for the
honor today.
>>> Chief Castor: It is my distinct pleasure to take
Chief Hogue's place this morning in fulfilling the
Officer of the Month on Billy train um who I worked
with through the years and is a friend of mine and
what led up to.
Each day master control officer William train um hits

the streets of Robles Park to make the community a
safer place to live.
The positive attitude and can-do spirit influences
everyone.
His commitment to fighting crime has played a
significant role in reducing crime.
Just in the month of September, MPO Traynham made 42
arrests.
These included drug dealers, car thieves and burglars.
It's this type of work that improves the quality of
life for all the citizens of Robles Park.
Persistence and proactive patrols he helped break down
a barrier and build a better relationship with the
residents.
He established a stake in the community and is
well-known to all of the citizens and the criminals
for his tenacity and determination.
He's a trained officer who goes about his day without
much fanfare or recognition.
Since his assignment, he's been a quiet leader and
contributor to the crime reduction effort.
He has outstanding work ethics, earned him Officer of

the Month.
Officer training, has 19 years on the department.
That's pretty substantial.
And he is a hard hitter.
Everyone in Robles Park knows him.
He's been a member of our tactical response team for
years.
He goes about his daily business without much fanfare
or recognition, but if you look in the lobby, his
pictures, he is kind of famous.
And he also comes from a very proud history at TPD.
His father also retired as a sergeant with the Tampa
Police Department.
And that gives great pride when we see officers
following in the F.W. Woolworth steps.
Footsteps.
But his next role is going to be as the star lineman
for a football team against the fire department.
That will certainly be his next role.
But right now we are recognizing him for Officer of
the Month for the outstanding work that he does every
day.

[ Applause ]
>>ROSE FERLITA: Some of our corporate members are
going to also honor you.
Let us give the presentations.
And then you will be able to come up and say a few
words.
Although these big guys that are famous and protect
us, kind of shy when they come up here.
But you are certainly not shy when you do what you
need to do for us on the street.
Let me take an opportunity to make a couple of
comments here.
As I have said already, this is the last time I will
do this, both for police and for fire.
I understand, Madam Chairman Miller has appointed Ms.
Alvarez to follow in my footsteps.
And Jane, you and she will work but also walk through
what we do typically.
And I want to tell you that you will be in very good
hands with Mary.
She will honor you and say nice things and not give
you a hard time like I so often do and enjoy.

That being said I look forward to Mary taking my
place.
I will be supporting you in any way I can and
hopefully sometime I'll come back and join you, if you
will allow me to do that.
If I keep my comments short, then my makeup will not
run for the rest of the meeting.
But while police and fire are here -- and of course I
am not going to pick sides for the moment about which
team is going to beat who.
Come together for hurricane preparedness.
For right now we'll say that it has been my absolute
pleasure and honor to every month come up here and say
thank you, guys, in some small way, and chief as well.
For you and your wonderful men and women quarterly.
I look forward to that relationship continuing in
terms of public safety and how we expand that given
the boundaries that will be done away with between
city and county.
That being said, I don't know how else to say it but
just thank you for the pleasure of having represented
you as public safety chairman.

Allow me, on behalf of our chairman, our colleagues,
my fellow colleagues, the people that we represent, to
read this to you and thank you for this.
And as I do, the corporate team over here will say
thanks.
And you can introduce your wife to give some
perspective of what you do.
So Tampa City Council commendation presented to MPO
William Traynham, master patrol officer William
Traynham has been selected as Officer of the Month,
his outstanding skills, his attitude, his commitment
have improved the quality of life of Robles Park
citizens, for keeping our city safer, the City Council
of the City of Tampa commends you, and I -- it is my
pleasure as public safety chairman to say thank you.
And I appreciate all that you do and all the things we
take for granted.
[ Applause ]
And one thing before I turn over the mike.
You will sit down and remember something you didn't
say.
And as I'm politicking and talking, even to the very

last five minutes, the person behind me makes me look
good up here every single week, Della CURY.
Even as I said, talking and doing stuff before the
meeting, she was in the back very quickly trying to
put this together, because she has such an overload
thanks to me in terms of work.
Della, for everything you do, thank you.
For everything you're gonna do.
It's my pleasure and a wonderful friend and part of my
teem team.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: She deserves a raise.
>>ROSE FERLITA: Ms. Alvarez, I'm sorry you brought
that up.
But she has gotten one.
That being said, gentlemen, if you want to come up.
>>> Danny Lewis from Bill Currie Ford.
Just checked my calendar and for eleven years, officer
Traynham, it's a pleasure to come in every month and
recognize one of Tampa's finest.
We know you wear this badge proudly.
And we are pleased with what you do for us.
Please be safe.

[ Applause ]
>> Enterprise rent a car.
We want to say thank you very much for your service.
We very much appreciate it.
On behalf of enterprise, we would like to give you a
free weekend rental from Tampa enterprise.
>> On behalf of Florida Aquarium, for Tampa's finest,
four passes to the Florida Aquarium for you and your
family.
Thank you and be safe.
[ Applause ]
>> Hank mark representing first command financial
planning.
And a token of appreciation for you and your family
because it's a team out there and we thank you for
keeping our community safe, and we salute you.
[ Applause ]
>> Steve Stickley representing Stepp's towing.
Bill, on behalf of Jim and Judy Stepp, we would like
to present this statue to you for a job well done.
Keeping us safe out there.
A gift certificate to Lee Roy Selmon's.

>>STEVE MICHILINI: Trying to figure out who is
guarding whom up here.
I'm here on behalf of a couple of different folks.
One is Bryn Allen studios that would like to present
with you a gift certificate for a photographic package
for you and your family, and to have your pictures
taken, and they'll do a nice job for you.
Bern's steakhouse, David Latzer, Liss group, $100 gift
certificate to steakhouse.
Hillsborough County towing association, $50 to your
choice, Carabbas or Outback, and Po Boy's cafe Creole
restaurant, $50 gift certificate.
Steve Stickley already told you about Stepp's towing
and what they are doing.
So we would like to honor you and thank you for your
contribution.
[ Applause ]
>>ROSE FERLITA: I'm very comfortable although they
don't have a representative here, ticket for you and
your family to Lowry Park Zoo.
In addition to that, there's something from me, Bill.
And also Charlie's steakhouse asked me to send their

congratulations and thanks along with a $100 gift
certificate to Charlie's steakhouse.
And now, all that being said, you're up.
>> Thank you all very, very much.
I really wasn't expecting any of this.
Thank you, council.
I'd like to thank a few people.
I would like to thank my sergeant, lieutenant Hartnet,
captain Honeywell, and major Deguera, members of
staff, chief of police, obviously Chief Castor.
It's been a pleasure working for the City of Tampa.
I consider working for the City of Tampa to be an
honor.
I may be a little bit partial with my father coming
from here.
But I believe in my heart of hearts this is one of the
finest police departments in the nation.
And I thank you all very, very much.
And this is a real honor for me.
Thank you.
[ Applause ]
I would like to also mention, this is my background --

my wife.
>>KEVIN WHITE: Bill, I want to acknowledge you as
well.
I had the opportunity to work alongside you for
several years at TPD.
You got there a couple years before me.
But Tampa doesn't realize what a consummate
professional they have in you.
And you serve the city very well on a day-to-day
basis.
I see you out there all the time as I'm roaming the
streets as well, drive an unmarked vehicle, drives a
marked vehicle.
You never know how you are you are going to see him.
He's always out there working to protect us in the
highest level of professionalism possible.
The Tampa Police Department as well is very, very
proud to have you and your family, a tradition of
service to our community.
And I wish you the very best, and continue to do what
you do for all the citizens.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: Rose, you are going to be a hard act

to follow.
But when Chairman Miller appointed me to take over
your spot, I was so honored to do this, because I knew
that -- I knew how much you loved the Public Safety
Committee.
And I want you to know that I will do my very best to
help, because I do love my fire and police
departments, too. And it's going to certainly be my
honor and my pleasure to do it and I will absolutely
do my best.
>>ROSE FERLITA: Thank you, Mary.
It's going to be wonderful to hand it over to you.
I know you are going to give them as much respect as
you possibly can and as much recognition.
And it won't hurt my feelings at all if your line of
corporate people is longer than the one I have.
Feel free to invite everybody.
>>MARY ALVAREZ: I will certainly do my best.
Thank you so much.
>>> On behalf of Chief Hogue and all the men and women
of the Tampa department say thank you for what you
have done for all of public safety, and as public

safety chair, there was never a moment's doubt that
your heart was truly in it and you were behind us all
the way.
So we will miss you and thank you for all that you
have done.
[ Applause ]
>>GWEN MILLER: At this time we have another
presentation from the fire department.
>>JOHN DINGFELDER: Jane, I think you pushed her over
the edge.
[ Laughter ]
>>GWEN MILLER: We don't want you to miss one thing.
Can't go out in the halls and talk.
You have to stay in here.
>> Larry Parker, local 754, Tampa firefighters.
We are here this morning to first thank everybody on
council for the support they give public safety and
especially the men and women of Tampa fire.
But we're here for one important reason, and that is
to honor one of your colleagues who has supported,
union president here, who now I consider a friend, who
has never ever wavered in any support we have needed,

and if you can join us down here with the rest of us.
As public safety chair, council member Rose has always
opened the door to the men and women of Tampa fire.
Doesn't matter morning, noon, night, always answered
the phone, always came to our aid.
And we want to give you a small token of appreciation
that we have for her in her role as public safety
chair.
I'll try to read this the best I can.
I don't have my glasses on.
The men and women of Tampa fire union 754 acknowledge
your unwavering commitment and support to serve and
maintain Tampa Fire Rescue services for the Tampa
firefighters and citizens of the City of Tampa.
We are always a top priority.
Your loyalty and dedication will never be forgotten.
Thank you for your love and loyalty.
[ Applause ]
>>ROSE FERLITA: Della, do me a favor.
In the office there's a plaque.
Would you bring it out here?
You can check it if you want.

I guess we have come a long way.
I remember one of our very first interactions at your
union facility.
You and some of the other guys gave me a hat and
certainly it was appreciated.
And it's going to go across the way with me.
But I always laughed about it.
You gave one to Pam.
You gave one to me at the same time.
And, chief, I think you were in the position you are
now.
And it sort of comes together.
She used to call me Ferliter.
Now she calls me Ferlita.
So I think this is a perfect time to end it.
I guess I don't know what to say.
I saw that the chief was here, and I was -- the things
that are so important are sometimes things that people
think are the least important.
The choice of words that hi was going to be gunning
for you, chief.
Because -- I was hoping I would see you later today.

And as you go along people give you lots of stuff,
T-shirts and things.
And you guys gave me this.
I think my old friend captain Alvarez.
And Pam and I, we were competing at "Paint Your Heart
Out."
She shoved paint at me and I shoved paint at her and I
love the shirt.
I sleep in the shirt.
I work in the yard.
I was going to ask if I could impose upon you.
Pam and I shared that.
And I kept the shirt because it's soft and nice.
Tampa Fire Rescue.
I don't know if that was anything personal.
In addition to that, I have some paint on it and I
sometimes do my yard.
So the weed eater caught me.
And I just haven't had the heart to give it up.
So do you think you could give me a new one?
>>> If I could, I have the fire marshal and several
members of the staff that have come out.

I'm honored to be here on a day that we recognize the
police Officer of the Month.
But we wanted to just say, the citizens of Tampa have
been very fortunate to have Rose serving them.
Public safety was always in the forefront of her mind.
And we are thankful for that.
And as it is with all the members of the council.
But as the chairman, we know that we have had an
alley, both police and fire.
Public safety has been at the forefront of what we
needed to do for the citizens.
We appreciate that.
We appreciate rose.
And it's bittersweet to see her move away but we
believe that she's going to help us to make connection
was county government that really need to be made.
And Kevin White will also assist in that regard.
We are very thankful, very fortunate to have rose as
our representative.
No one could have represented us better.
And we are very thankful.
Thank you.

09:46:13 >> It has been an honor.
09:46:16 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I think we have more coming, Ms.
09:46:23 Ferlita.
09:46:23 Mr. White?
09:46:28 >>GWEN MILLER: You thought you were finished, Ms.
09:46:31 Ferlita approximate.
09:46:33 We are going to have Mr. White join you.
09:46:35 On behalf of the members of the Tampa City Council, we
09:46:37 are going to miss two of our wonderful council
09:46:39 members.
09:46:41 We hate to see them go.
09:46:42 If we could keep them we would keep them but they want
09:46:46 to leave so we are not going to chain them here.
09:46:48 But we'll be staying in touch with them to make sure
09:46:51 they don't forget us, that we don't forget them.
09:46:54 I would like to present to each one of them the City
09:46:56 of Tampa certificate of recognition presented to Rose
09:47:00 Ferlita in recognition of loyal and dedicated service
09:47:03 to the City of Tampa as a City Council member from
09:47:06 April 1st, 1999, to November 21st, 2006.
09:47:15 [ Applause ]
09:47:30 You aren't going to have a parking space so we'll give

09:47:33 you a sign, so when you get over there, you can park
09:47:39 in front of the sign anytime.
09:47:42 [ Laughter ]
09:47:43 >>ROSE FERLITA: When I went to the park yesterday, I
09:47:50 saw City Councilman.
09:47:51 I'm not even on it.
09:47:53 >> She has a pass from the fire department.
09:47:55 She can park wherever she wants.
09:47:56 [ Laughter ]
09:47:57 >>GWEN MILLER: And we are going to really miss you.
09:48:00 City of Tampa presented to Kevin White, in your
09:48:06 dedication to the City of Tampa, April 1st, 2003,
09:48:09 to November 21st, 2006.
09:48:12 And we are going to miss you.
09:48:15 [ Applause ]
09:48:24 Would you like to say something?
09:48:34 >>ROSE FERLITA: I've said it all.
09:48:38 >>KEVIN WHITE: Well, I thought we may say something at
09:48:43 the end of the meeting with our comments.
09:48:47 And I will probably save the moment for that time but
09:48:52 I want to let me colleagues how much I appreciate
09:48:55 every and -- each and every one of you.

09:48:57 I have been able to learn so much from each and every
09:48:59 one of you and I honestly mean that.
09:49:01 One thing that I truly am going to miss about this
09:49:04 council as seven individuals, we can all agree to
09:49:10 disagree, and at the end of the day we still are
09:49:14 friend and we can act civil as colleagues towards each
09:49:17 other.
09:49:17 And that's one of the main things that I am taking
09:49:21 away from this board, to hopefully carry down the
09:49:27 street, and continue that level of professionalism,
09:49:31 courtesy and commitment to the county level, as well
09:49:36 as still being able to have correspondence and contact
09:49:39 with the city staff and City Council members who over
09:49:44 the past three and a half years come to greatly know
09:49:48 and appreciate and your individual levels and
09:49:55 representation of service to our community.
09:49:57 Our staff -- my staff in particular, my aide -- our
09:50:01 city attorney, Mr. Shelby -- the City Council
09:50:07 attorney, who always errs on the side of caution.
09:50:17 Thank you for automating our city services and making
09:50:20 our agenda so user friendly, and our entire city staff
09:50:24 and administration.

09:50:28 At the same time, we always don't agree.
09:50:30 But we can all forge forward to make our city and our
09:50:35 community a better place to live.
09:50:37 And I thank all of my constituents who had the faith
09:50:41 in me to elect me as City Council and who also had
09:50:44 faith in me to elect me to become the next county
09:50:47 commissioner for district 3.
09:50:50 I want to thank my family, my wife, my children, my
09:50:54 mother, my grandmother, everyone who stood beside me
09:50:57 and behind me pushing me, forging me to move on to
09:51:01 show that I can strive to be all that I can be, to be
09:51:06 a better human being, and hopefully leave this
09:51:09 community a better place than I find it.
09:51:11 I want to thank each and every one.
09:51:14 I want to thank God for giving me the strength to
09:51:16 stand up for my courage and convictions and I'll miss
09:51:19 each and every one of you.
09:51:21 Thank you.
09:51:22 [ Applause ]
09:51:28 >>ROSE FERLITA: When you start trying to think
09:51:30 everybody, you forget somebody, certainly not
09:51:32 intentionally.

09:51:33 Let me start by saying, colleagues, some of us started
09:51:36 together.
09:51:37 And we really didn't know a whole lot of what we would
09:51:40 be doing.
09:51:44 I don't know, Mary, and some of the people that
09:51:46 started in 1999.
09:51:48 Linda and Gwen were already here.
09:51:50 And they had some institutional knowledge already.
09:51:52 That helped us learn.
09:51:53 And then the next guys came on, Kevin and John.
09:51:57 That whole experience, eight years, four years, three
09:52:00 years, whatever, just kind of merged together.
09:52:02 And I think we have done some things that maybe City
09:52:04 Council members have not realized in the past that
09:52:07 they can do.
09:52:08 The fact that we didn't realize that we had strength.
09:52:13 It's not an ego thing.
09:52:14 It's simply the realization that we have that
09:52:16 responsibility.
09:52:17 And I think we have come each in our own ways, some
09:52:20 agreeing, some disagreeing, to make sure that we use
09:52:22 that potential, use that responsibility, use that

09:52:25 authority, to represent our constituents better.
09:52:29 And, Gwen, I thank you for your leadership.
09:52:31 I thank you, Linda.
09:52:32 I think when we start this next term you were the
09:52:35 first chairman.
09:52:36 So everybody is contributing in their own way.
09:52:38 And like Kevin, I certainly will miss you and the
09:52:42 clerk's office and particularly people that come here,
09:52:45 are not paid, are sitting here sometimes as long as we
09:52:49 are, sometimes till 1:00 in the morning because they
09:52:51 believe in the representation they put up there, and
09:52:53 they believe in their community.
09:52:55 And to you, we have to thank just as much or more for
09:52:59 being part of the system that makes us understand what
09:53:01 we need to do and listen to, et cetera.
09:53:03 So I will miss you as well, just like Kevin has said.
09:53:07 The clerk's office, the staff, the administration.
09:53:10 It's been a wonderful experience.
09:53:13 It's certainly a bittersweet day for me.
09:53:15 And I thank you for the ability of working with you.
09:53:22 We accomplished much.
09:53:23 We have a bunch to go.

09:53:24 And I think that the way Kevin and I can help is to
09:53:27 make sure that those ties aren't severed.
09:53:33 Lie forward to working with you in a different
09:53:36 capacity, to you guys, your staff, to your aides that
09:53:38 are so nice, as we go down the hall and we talk about
09:53:41 stuff.
09:53:41 It has become a family.
09:53:42 And it's tough.
09:53:45 It's tough to say goodbye.
09:53:48 But thanks to everybody.
09:53:49 And Marty, you got into this and you knew good well
09:53:53 what you were talking about and what you were getting
09:53:55 into.
09:53:56 We had some of those conversations at the drugstore.
09:53:58 I will truly miss you.
09:53:59 And I'm sorry I can't steal you away, too.
09:54:02 But thank you all for everything you've done.
09:54:07 [ Applause ]
09:54:08 >>GWEN MILLER: We are ready for approval of the
09:54:54 agenda.
09:54:54 Is there any item on the agenda council would like to
09:54:57 pull?

09:54:59 >>KEVIN WHITE: Madam Chairman, now that that's over,
09:55:01 can we be excused?
09:55:03 [ Laughter ]
09:55:05 >> No!
09:55:06 >>KEVIN WHITE: Seriously, I had a message on my phone
09:55:14 that I guess Darrell Smith said the administration was
09:55:17 trying to request that Mr. Hart on his bye weekly
09:55:21 reports send a memo form updating us on the disparity
09:55:27 study and I would like to at this time, if they are
09:55:29 watching on the teleprompter, the requested date that
09:55:34 Mr. Hart come over.
09:55:35 Because that's the way we set it up originally.
09:55:38 I just don't want to get it in the form of a written
09:55:43 report because sometimes that gets away wayside.
09:55:50 If Mr. Hart could come over or his representative.
09:55:54 >>ROSE FERLITA: I don't think that now that we got
09:55:57 those wonderful credits that I am going to skip out Ba
09:56:00 but I want to take a picture with the police officers,
09:56:03 and I am so happy that Kevin won because I don't want
09:56:07 to have to hug him.
09:56:08 [ Laughter ]
09:56:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Are there any items would you like to

09:56:12 pull?
09:56:17 All right.
09:56:18 We will go to sign-in sheet from staff.
09:56:31 >>> Cathy Ginster, legal department, to make a request
09:56:34 on behalf of the brownfield applicant to schedule the
09:56:37 two required public hearings before council and ask
09:56:46 council to announce an outside public hearing.
09:56:49 The reason for this is the change in the brownfield
09:56:51 law that allows and applicant now to recoup costs the
09:56:58 year the application is filed, both the way the old
09:57:01 law was before July 1st, which was the costs could
09:57:05 only be recouped after the application was filed.
09:57:12 >>GWEN MILLER: What date are you asking for?
09:57:14 >>> You were provided a written resolution for the two
09:57:16 hearings before council, which are going to be
09:57:18 November 30th, 2006, at 5:30 p.m., and the day
09:57:22 hearing will be December 14th, 2006, at 10 a.m.
09:57:27 The second request is to reannounce an off-site public
09:57:31 hearing.
09:57:33 There was a mistake in one of the intersecting streets
09:57:37 that council had approved a few weeks back.
09:57:39 The hearing was actually held, and there was a

09:57:43 transcript taken at the meeting, no one from the
09:57:46 public attended.
09:57:47 However, you were provided a written memo this morning
09:57:51 with an announcement, a request for council to
09:57:57 reannounce, and the off-site hearing will be
09:58:00 rescheduled and reheld.
09:58:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
09:58:06 >>KEVIN WHITE: Second.
09:58:06 (Motion carried)
09:58:11 >>> Thank you.
09:58:12 And then if you would be so kind to read the
09:58:15 announcement which is required by state law.
09:58:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Do we have it?
09:58:19 >>> I provided it, I think, this morning.
09:58:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Mrs. Alvarez has it.
09:58:30 >>> Public hearing will be held regarding a proposed
09:58:32 brownfield designation applied for by MHG, Tampa LLC,
09:58:37 and McKibbin hotel group, Inc., to are a vacant site
09:58:42 of 18.89 acres located southwest of the intersection
09:58:45 of O'Brien street and west Spruce Street in the area
09:58:48 of and including 5210, 5220 and 5124 West Spruce
09:58:56 Street in the City of Tampa.

09:58:57 The public hearing will be held at the Hilton Tampa
09:58:59 Airport Westshore hotel, 2226 north Lois Avenue,
09:59:03 Tampa, Florida 33602 on Monday, November 27th,
09:59:08 2006, between 6 p.m. until not later till 8 p.m.
09:59:16 >>> Thank you very much.
09:59:16 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion for the resolution.
09:59:19 (Motion carried)
09:59:23 Mr. Sal Territo.
09:59:29 >>SAL TERRITO: Legal department.
09:59:31 I'm here for this morning's CRA action, interlocal
09:59:36 agreement between the city and CRA on the housing
09:59:38 program.
09:59:38 I would like to walk that in at this particular time,
09:59:41 if I may.
09:59:57 The resolution needs to be adopted.
09:59:59 You just move it.
10:00:01 >>MARY ALVAREZ: So moved.
10:00:04 >> Second.
10:00:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: With regard to taking a special
10:00:07 action, I just appreciate if anybody wishes to speak
10:00:10 to that particular item.
10:00:16 It is a walk-on.

10:00:17 >>> It was pulled off the agenda three weeks ago to
10:00:19 give some people a chance to review it.
10:00:21 It was the one we reviewed this morning in CRA.
10:00:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It was discussed.
10:00:27 I wanted you to be clear before you take action on the
10:00:30 item if anybody wants to talk to it.
10:00:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Does anyone in the public want to speak
10:00:34 on the walk-on?
10:00:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.
10:00:38 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the resolution say Aye.
10:00:41 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Move the resolution.
10:00:44 (Motion Carried).
10:00:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.
10:00:46 >>GWEN MILLER: You need to approve the agenda.
10:00:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
10:00:51 >> Second.
10:00:55 >> Can I have a second?
10:00:59 >>ROSE FERLITA: This is going to be kind of difficult
10:01:03 because I didn't realize Chief Hogue was going to be
10:01:05 on vacation.
10:01:06 I just wanted some clarification in here.
10:01:08 I have been visiting police all morning and now I'm

10:01:11 talking about something under my own consent agenda.
10:01:14 Item 24, I want to make sure if anybody has any
10:01:17 questions about how that is being done in terms of the
10:01:20 ATM location with SunTrust as opposed to somebody
10:01:22 else.
10:01:27 They are comfortable this was done appropriately and
10:01:29 give me some advice, for the last time, Mr. Shelby.
10:01:34 Can I get somebody to come back sometime today?
10:01:38 I just want to make sure not so much for my own reason
10:01:46 but for people who say, well, there's an ATM location
10:01:49 at the police department, but SunTrust, and was anyone
10:01:53 else given that opportunity?
10:01:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: A request for somebody to appear from
10:01:57 administration on number 24?
10:01:59 >>ROSE FERLITA: Just to make sure there's no
10:02:01 perception of any inappropriateness.
10:02:05 Based on the backup information, it doesn't give me
10:02:09 enough of a level of comfort to be able to explain it
10:02:11 to somebody else.
10:02:20 If somebody could come explain it.
10:02:22 I'm sure it will be no problem.
10:02:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I had asked a few questions about

10:02:30 24 earlier in the week.
10:02:31 I had asked if that was the going rate and I didn't
10:02:39 ask the question, which I thought was a good one.
10:02:41 One thing that I did hear back was apparently that
10:02:44 ATM -- I guess this is a re-up.
10:02:49 But I think we should pull it and ask those questions.
10:02:51 >>ROSE FERLITA: Just to explain it.
10:02:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Another item?
10:02:56 Mr. Shelby?
10:02:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, council.
10:02:58 I believe with regard to item number 6, Chief Castor
10:03:05 asked that that be moved up and taken first.
10:03:08 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a note from Chief Castor, she
10:03:11 had to go to the office and will come back as soon as
10:03:13 possible.
10:03:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: All right.
10:03:15 Sorry.
10:03:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Any other item?
10:03:19 Need a motion to approve the agenda.
10:03:21 >> So moved.
10:03:22 >> Second.
10:03:22 (Motion carried)

10:03:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Now we go to our staff report.
10:03:26 Item number 3.
10:03:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Item 3 is attached to other items
10:03:35 later on in the agenda, is that correct?
10:03:44 If we could hold this till after the public hearings
10:03:46 when it's appropriate to take that up.
10:03:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
10:03:49 Item number 4.
10:03:50 Resolution.
10:03:58 Need to pass the resolution.
10:03:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I move the resolution.
10:04:01 I think -- the reason I asked this be carried over is
10:04:05 just to make sure that the $150,000 contribution from
10:04:08 the CRAs were included.
10:04:10 And I heard from staff that we have now included it as
10:04:13 part of the agenda item.
10:04:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I second it.
10:04:20 (Motion Carried).
10:04:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 5.
10:04:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Martin Shelby, City Council attorney.
10:04:26 I am going to be very brief on this.
10:04:28 Council, with regards to the appellate process,

10:04:34 council brought forward some potential changes that
10:04:36 are coming forth.
10:04:37 And I have been told they are going to be presented to
10:04:39 council in January relating to chapter 27, that
10:04:44 council discussed.
10:04:45 Chapter 3 changes, how council handles wet zonings.
10:04:49 All of this is going to change the way business is
10:04:52 done and effects the appellate process.
10:04:57 I would like to ask if council -- two questions --
10:05:01 number one -- oops, I'm sorry.
10:05:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Should we just defer your
10:05:09 discussion on this until January as well?
10:05:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes.
10:05:12 The only question would be whether council wishes to
10:05:14 address that one issue that allows for council to
10:05:20 overrule a lower board as opposed to remanding, which
10:05:23 is present now.
10:05:25 Is council willing to wait till January to address
10:05:28 that issue?
10:05:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
10:05:30 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Madam Chair, I would say no,
10:05:33 actually, because who knows what we are going to do

10:05:37 between now and January?
10:05:38 I think we ought to put that weapon in our arsenals.
10:05:42 >> I agree.
10:05:42 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe a change like that, if I
10:05:44 could talk to Ms. Cole or Ms. Coyle, mitt might take a
10:05:50 process, to go before the Planning Commission and
10:05:53 require a change.
10:05:56 >>JULIA COLE: Leapt department.
10:05:57 That would have to go through an amendment to chapter
10:05:59 27 so it would require a hearing in front of the
10:06:02 Planning Commission.
10:06:04 In addition, change the code to allow amendment to
10:06:07 chapter 27 in the next amendment cycle of January so
10:06:12 all the changes will have to be processed in January.
10:06:16 The only question that I have -- and excuse me, Mr.
10:06:19 Shelby, for interrupting, is did you want to at this
10:06:21 time direct legal, as part of those changes to chapter
10:06:26 27, bring back to you at least the creation of a
10:06:29 hearing officer?
10:06:30 We can make a determination later as to which items we
10:06:32 want to move as we see the changes in the process.
10:06:35 But at the very minimum we can at least bring forward

10:06:37 the creation of the hearing officer as part of the
10:06:40 amendment to chapter 27.
10:06:42 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That was going to be my second point.
10:06:45 I appreciate you bringing it up because you put it
10:06:47 much more succinctly than I would have.
10:06:51 But with regard to a hearing officer, if you would
10:06:54 allow by motion just to give the authority to legal to
10:06:57 be able to cross that, the hearing officer position,
10:07:01 once it's determined how to handle it, if you want to
10:07:03 handle it, would still ultimately have to be funded.
10:07:06 There is no line in the budget for it.
10:07:08 We haven't talked money.
10:07:09 Council would have ultimate control.
10:07:10 But when they come back in January to have some sort
10:07:13 of language so you can be able to decide how it is you
10:07:15 want to approach it.
10:07:20 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I haven't seen any changes on this and
10:07:23 so on.
10:07:23 So we are talking.
10:07:24 But doesn't make any sense to me.
10:07:26 I never thought -- were we talking about a hearing
10:07:29 officer in the beginning?

10:07:31 >>> Yes, we were talking about a hearing officer.
10:07:33 But the issue, as you know, a lot of things council
10:07:35 has been talking about changing, the A.R.C. process,
10:07:39 the board appointment process, what could be subject
10:07:43 to an appeal, how wet zonings are going to be handled.
10:07:46 So ultimately, I have been informed that a lot of that
10:07:50 has already been brought to council's attention and is
10:07:52 going to be brought to council in January.
10:07:54 That's my understanding.
10:07:55 So I believe it would be appropriate to discuss this,
10:07:58 to defer this, to be able to handle --
10:08:03 >>GWEN MILLER: It's all going to be brought back in
10:08:05 January.
10:08:05 Why can't we just bring everything at one time?
10:08:09 Ms. Saul-Sena?
10:08:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think these are really
10:08:11 complicated and important things.
10:08:12 And I need -- we need to make sure that we dedicate
10:08:17 enough time to discuss it.
10:08:19 And I'm wondering -- and I look to you for guidance,
10:08:22 Mr. Shelby.
10:08:23 Couldn't we -- I don't see us being able to discuss

10:08:26 this and act on it in the same moment.
10:08:28 I would rather discuss it, for example, the idea of
10:08:32 even requesting a hearing officer, in December,
10:08:34 perhaps, with the idea towards asking legal to draw it
10:08:37 up, if that's something he would agree upon.
10:08:39 I feel a little uncomfortable saying let's just draw
10:08:42 it up without having had discussion.
10:08:44 And I'm concerned about setting enough time aside.
10:08:47 I'm log at our calendar.
10:08:51 On January 11th we have a night meeting so I don't
10:08:54 think it would be good to schedule something that's
10:08:56 going to be this complex for the afternoon.
10:08:58 But on January 18th, we don't have a night
10:09:01 meeting.
10:09:01 So perhaps we could set this big conversation for
10:09:06 1:30.
10:09:09 January 18th.
10:09:10 A Thursday at 1:30.
10:09:13 And I look to you for guidance.
10:09:15 Do you think we should have a discussion of the
10:09:17 hearing officer prior to that, to enable them if we
10:09:20 like the sound of it for legal to draw it up?

10:09:23 If not then wave to wait six months.
10:09:27 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The concern, council, when I decided
10:09:29 when I was preparing this, to prepare the pros and
10:09:32 cons, I realized that the whole process and the
10:09:34 substantive changes coming, that I cannot tell council
10:09:38 with certainty after the smoke clears what council
10:09:41 decides where it wants to go, what's appropriate to go
10:09:43 to a hearing officer.
10:09:44 As your attorney, I just want to share with you that
10:09:47 I'm very cognizant of protecting council's discretion
10:09:50 and protecting the role that it serves, and I want to
10:09:54 make sure that it has, you know, that it knows what
10:09:59 it's doing at the time it does.
10:10:00 I also am familiar, and council brought to my
10:10:03 attention people in the community brought to my
10:10:05 attention, the community's concern about council
10:10:08 giving away discretion.
10:10:10 But as of right now, I can't say how best to approach
10:10:13 it until I know exactly what the administration
10:10:16 intends to present to council and what council chooses
10:10:19 to adopt in terms of changing its practices.
10:10:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think for purposes of efficiency,

10:10:28 I think we should direct legal to prepare the
10:10:32 appellate hearing officer document.
10:10:34 It doesn't bind us by any means.
10:10:39 It's not funded and it doesn't bind us.
10:10:41 But at least at that point in time, there will be a
10:10:44 document in front of us, for us to be able to look at.
10:10:47 So I'm not trying to create more work for legal but it
10:10:50 sounds like it's actually their preference to go ahead
10:10:52 and work on this document, bring it to us.
10:10:55 If we decide that's not the route we are going to go,
10:10:58 then we'll just throw it out in January.
10:11:00 So with that, I am going to go ahead and move that we
10:11:02 direct legal to do that on a contingency basis.
10:11:09 >>JULIA COLE: Ms. Coyle, and the deadline for
10:11:12 amendments for the January cycle, will be January
10:11:15 15th.
10:11:15 So if we are directed to do that we can bring that
10:11:17 forward and you can make the decision to adopt this as
10:11:20 part of that process, and the January cycle, or in the
10:11:23 alternative you can move it back to the June-July
10:11:26 cycle.
10:11:26 But we can bring it up and move forward.

10:11:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I can clarify.
10:11:39 Ms. Saul-Sena, with regard to the 18th, I guess,
10:11:42 what I'm hearing is council might want to have it
10:11:44 sooner than the 18th to be able to act on that.
10:11:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I don't think we can give it the
10:11:48 time it deserves on the 11th.
10:11:51 It will be the first meeting after a two-week holiday.
10:11:54 I think we are going to be slammed.
10:11:56 We have a night meeting.
10:11:57 I just don't think we are going to have the energy to
10:12:00 work on the 18th.
10:12:02 Until we change this, where does this deadline come
10:12:05 from?
10:12:05 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
10:12:09 Within the last revision to the code, to do a
10:12:12 semiannual, comprehensive review of any changes to the
10:12:16 code, as opposed to the first of the month, we can
10:12:24 look at it comprehensively.
10:12:25 Because we receive private requests for text
10:12:29 amendments, from council, and for inconsistencies,
10:12:34 regulations, as opposed to code changes every single
10:12:39 month, we set a six-month cycle so we do them in a

10:12:42 batch so that we are not adopting one regulation one
10:12:45 month that could contradict with another one the next
10:12:47 month.
10:12:47 That was the reason for the 15th deadline.
10:12:50 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is the 15th in the code?
10:12:52 >>> The 15th is actually in the code, yes.
10:12:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can we vote as council to continue
10:12:59 it for an additional week like the -- -- it's only our
10:13:06 second meeting in January which I think is what you
10:13:09 intended.
10:13:09 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I'm working with Ms. Cole on the
10:13:13 language as well.
10:13:13 That language should be drafted probably in December,
10:13:16 mid to late December.
10:13:18 And we can have it out and in the cycle.
10:13:20 As far as I'm concerned it will be in the cycle at
10:13:22 that point.
10:13:23 Then you can decide in January whether or not to pull
10:13:25 it from the comprehensive amendment in that batch.
10:13:27 That will be up to you at that time.
10:13:30 Because the language will be there.
10:13:33 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Can't we just, by the 11th, if

10:13:36 we have to take action, we can take action to send it
10:13:39 to it Planning commission for their review.
10:13:42 >>> You don't even have to have the action at that
10:13:44 point. The deadline is the 15th of January.
10:13:47 The language is written or close to being written.
10:13:50 If you're directing legal to work on it, that's good
10:13:53 enough because you have already directed us to do
10:13:54 that.
10:13:55 And I will consider that for the January batch.
10:13:58 And if you get to the end of January, when I come
10:14:01 forward for the workshop and we are will go at all the
10:14:03 comprehensive amendments and they are one that is you
10:14:05 don't want to move forward with, we can delay those
10:14:07 and it will move the rest of them to Planning
10:14:10 Commission.
10:14:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: My motion is on the floor.
10:14:14 To direct legal to work on language.
10:14:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Did when vote on that motion?
10:14:26 >>GWEN MILLER: We didn't get a second.
10:14:27 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Was there a second?
10:14:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: My motion is on the floor.
10:14:33 >>MARTIN SHELBY:

10:14:35 >>CHAIRMAN: All in favor of the motion say Aye.
10:14:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: My motion was to direct legal to
10:14:41 draft language, just a draft.
10:14:47 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor?
10:14:48 (Motion carried).
10:14:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My motion would be to schedule at
10:14:51 1:30 on January 18th a major discussion on chapter
10:14:57 27.
10:14:59 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:15:01 (Motion carried)
10:15:02 Item number 7.
10:15:13 >> Julie, legal department.
10:15:14 There are two motions with this item and I would like
10:15:16 to discuss the second motion first regarding the
10:15:22 rescue operation, and council requests that council
10:15:28 work with code enforcement department to provide some
10:15:30 relief.
10:15:32 And I did ride out to the property with two other code
10:15:38 enforcement officers.
10:15:41 Code enforcement has declined to make the
10:15:45 determination there was a public nuisance and close
10:15:47 that file.

10:15:47 And there was only one anonymous complaint.
10:15:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just to refresh your memory this
10:15:56 was a gentleman that came in front of city running a
10:16:03 adoption rescue operation, and that his operation is
10:16:06 in good standing.
10:16:08 So we are going to close that file.
10:16:10 >>> Yes, just close it for now.
10:16:15 The first motion of those two, I have a real short
10:16:20 outline, a couple of options that I have come up with.
10:16:41 We in legal have come up with two options to consider.
10:16:48 Relating to accommodating the permitted rescue
10:16:52 operations to be able to operate within the city.
10:16:56 And -- the first option is to delete section 1977-B
10:17:01 regarding the locations and refer to 1977-A, 1 through
10:17:10 A-7 regarding the definition of public nuisance,
10:17:14 outlining those provisions to be the determining
10:17:17 factor regarding whether animals are a public
10:17:19 nuisance.
10:17:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Questions by council members?
10:17:22 Thank you.
10:17:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Then the second option?
10:17:25 >>> And the second option is if we want to keep -- if

10:17:29 council wants to keep the term four large domestic
10:17:35 animals in the code, which is a little bit vague.
10:17:38 I think that came up.
10:17:42 That maybe we could request that those people wanting
10:17:52 to have more four large domestic animals be permitted
10:17:56 as long as they have a permit under the county, a
10:18:03 permit to run the rescue operation.
10:18:05 The city doesn't require them.
10:18:09 >>ROSE FERLITA: Thank you very much.
10:18:11 I intend to work very closely with Mr. Armstrong.
10:18:15 We talked about that, in animal services.
10:18:19 But just so I understand more clearly, if they are
10:18:23 permitting there, it's okay in the city, is that what
10:18:25 you are saying, based on their definition and
10:18:28 requirements?
10:18:28 >>> It says K, in the city.
10:18:32 But 1977 has to do with public nuisance.
10:18:37 We don't want to permit them to allow public nuisance.
10:18:41 Under 1977, just having four animals.
10:18:49 >>ROSE FERLITA: My concern is if we don't get -- and
10:18:52 I'm so sorry this is not going to be completed at
10:18:55 least under my watch.

10:18:56 But, I mean, when you have definitions that are vague,
10:19:00 I heard Ms. Alvarez mumbling understood her breath and
10:19:03 she's absolutely right, four large domestic animals.
10:19:05 Are we talking about cows?
10:19:07 And she's right.
10:19:08 I mean, these people are doing a wonderful service for
10:19:11 this community.
10:19:12 And I think that Mr. Dingfelder, I'm excited to death
10:19:16 you brought it up.
10:19:17 Cindy has been carrying this on her shoulder for a
10:19:19 week or two worrying that something is not going to
10:19:21 get done.
10:19:22 We need to make this more user friendly, being a
10:19:26 rescue animal person is saintly in and of itself.
10:19:29 And when they left, and I think John talked about the
10:19:34 penning ordinance document, et cetera, that it will
10:19:36 allow them in the meantime, believe me when I tell
10:19:38 you, absolutely, I would keep that extra dog till they
10:19:42 resolved this issue with you as opposed to -- and I
10:19:47 have got some of my own and that's okay.
10:19:50 I wouldn't be in violation.
10:19:51 But we need to do something.

10:19:53 And I guess I'm a little bit not understanding where
10:19:57 we are trying to get with this.
10:19:59 So maybe for people like me tell me again because we
10:20:03 need to protect the rest of people and not make it
10:20:06 difficult for them to operate.
10:20:07 >>> Right.
10:20:08 But under the code right now, just having four large
10:20:11 domestic animals is a public nuisance.
10:20:13 >> But large domestic animals.
10:20:15 Define large.
10:20:16 >>> We have to define large.
10:20:18 And maybe if you want to keep that distinction in the
10:20:21 code, possibly define an animal based on weight or
10:20:28 age.
10:20:31 >> John, I hope you continue working on this.
10:20:33 Because I can see if it's a public nuisance when you
10:20:36 have, you know, a lot of animals, dogs, cats, whatever
10:20:39 they choose to do.
10:20:40 But rescue homes that take care of these animals, that
10:20:44 don't present a nuisance, that are trying to take care
10:20:47 of them, that they are certainly well cared for as
10:20:50 opposed to, you know, mistreated, this is a big step.

10:20:55 And I hope that my colleagues follow through on this.
10:20:58 Because this is a fashion of mine and many other
10:21:01 people.
10:21:01 And, my God, rescue people are just so helpful to what
10:21:05 the Humane Society can't do, and that overflow is
10:21:08 taking care of by rescue people.
10:21:11 I didn't mean to take it over, John.
10:21:13 But we need to come to some resolve for this.
10:21:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think that legal council has --
10:21:22 counsel has given us two options.
10:21:23 I like the first option.
10:21:25 If you go to page 2 of the document, this is the
10:21:27 ordinance.
10:21:28 If you go down to the bottom, paren B is, B, after 9
10:21:34 there, that's the problem.
10:21:35 That's the three sentences or three lines that are
10:21:38 creating the problem.
10:21:39 And, frankly, there are probably hundreds of people
10:21:42 all over this city who are currently in violation of
10:21:44 that provision.
10:21:45 Because there's a lot of people with more than four
10:21:49 large domestic animals, because a large domestic

10:21:52 animal, I think, has been basically interpreted as
10:21:54 really a dog or a cat.
10:21:58 A small domestic animal is like a gerbil or hampster.
10:22:02 That's the way I understand it from code enforcement.
10:22:04 I think the easiest solution on this, and it's one of
10:22:07 the options that's given to us from council, is to
10:22:09 eliminate (B) completely.
10:22:13 That doesn't leave it wide open because what that
10:22:16 does, that now gives the discretion to code
10:22:18 enforcement to rely upon the nine parameters in (A),
10:22:25 in other words, if there is a nuisance problem, some
10:22:27 people can take care of ten German shepherds in a very
10:22:32 humane and healthy way and other people might have
10:22:35 three dogs that they can't take care of at all.
10:22:38 So if we just leave it 1 through 9, are the animals
10:22:42 chasing vehicles, do they make disturbing noises, are
10:22:45 they fouling the air, is it unsanitary?
10:22:47 That takes a lot of discretion to code enforcement to
10:22:51 go out there and to see, is there a problem?
10:22:53 And then we don't have to get into weighing the
10:22:56 animals or counting the animals.
10:22:57 If there's a problem, it becomes very apparent.

10:23:01 So that would be my suggestion, council, that we take
10:23:05 the option number 1 from legal and eliminate paren B.
10:23:13 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I think you need to define what large
10:23:15 animals are, you know, just dogs, cats is fine.
10:23:19 Maybe you could have horses.
10:23:21 Because little horses, they are called Shetlands.
10:23:25 So you need to define them.
10:23:26 And as you said, define in ways, I think it needs to
10:23:32 be defined a little more.
10:23:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If we eliminated B, we wouldn't
10:23:39 have to define it at all.
10:23:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there a motion to direct --
10:23:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I move to direct legal to do
10:23:50 whatever we need to do, to amend section 19-77 and
10:23:54 eliminate (B).
10:23:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Question on the motion?
10:23:59 >>MARY ALVAREZ: It says stating why the term located
10:24:02 in 19 -- that's what you're saying, 19 --
10:24:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm looking at option number 1.
10:24:08 Looking at option number 2.
10:24:12 Look at option number 1 at the top of the first page.
10:24:15 It says delete (B).

10:24:19 If you look at option number 2, then you get into what
10:24:22 you were talking about.
10:24:24 >> All right, I got you.
10:24:26 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
10:24:27 (Motion carried).
10:24:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
10:24:29 >>GWEN MILLER: We are going to go to number 12 right
10:24:32 quick.
10:24:37 He has to go to a meeting,.
10:24:40 Mr. Hart.
10:24:43 >> Gregory Hart, manager minority business
10:24:45 development.
10:24:47 You have a memo that essentially updates you where we
10:24:49 are with the disparity study report.
10:24:56 I can simply say based on our last update, Mason
10:24:58 Tillman and associates is based in that validation
10:25:02 process and the additional times.
10:25:05 They are approximately halfway through that process.
10:25:12 I don't have any follow-up results or information to
10:25:14 provide you on that process at this time.ding
10:25:20 >>KEVIN WHITE: I appreciate you coming in, Mr. Hart.
10:25:24 I want you to know that I got the e-mail from the

10:25:26 administration stating -- I know sometimes it's a
10:25:31 long, arduous process to be coming in and sitting in
10:25:37 on the meetings but it's such an important issue that
10:25:39 council decided we wanted to provide reports and
10:25:43 wanted to let you know this is something that has been
10:25:46 a long time coming and we want to make sure the ball
10:25:48 is not dropped on this issue.
10:25:52 And bimonthly reports.
10:25:54 So don't want to do it in letter form.
10:26:00 Because if something else comes up, there are so many
10:26:02 people that are keeping track of this, and want to
10:26:04 know what's going on, that they don't get those memos
10:26:08 as well.
10:26:09 So please be prepared to come to let us know where we
10:26:13 are, and hopefully in the process, maybe in another
10:26:17 two weeks you will be able to let us know Mason
10:26:19 Tillman is done and what the next step is, and as you
10:26:23 stated, we should be done with this in January.
10:26:28 So hopefully see you two more times and this will be
10:26:32 done.
10:26:33 >>> Yes, sir, we'll be glad to do that.
10:26:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Hart, do you have an idea how long

10:26:37 Mason Tillman will take?
10:26:38 Did they give you a date when it might be completed?
10:26:40 >>> The date that has been discussed, is that by the
10:26:43 end of November, with the initial assessment and
10:26:47 elevation of the -- evaluation of the 419 firms.
10:26:51 We are suspecting by the end of September to have this
10:26:54 full report.
10:26:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Are they coming in person and let us
10:26:58 know?
10:26:59 Or are they going to give you a copy?
10:27:02 >>> We plan to have an on-site meeting with them next
10:27:05 week to sit down face to face, and discuss some of
10:27:11 their preliminary findings, so that we will know from
10:27:14 that point the direction that we would be heading by
10:27:17 the end of December.
10:27:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:27:22 We go back to item number 8.
10:27:31 >>ROY LAMOTTE: Transportation manager.
10:27:32 I'm pleased to tell you that we met with the folks at
10:27:35 Tampa General Hospital, and their designer.
10:27:38 Based on your discussion we will probably need an
10:27:41 extension to bring the item to closure.

10:27:43 However, we are moving forward, and we believe that
10:27:47 analysis for the bridge will be complete by November
10:27:50 30th.
10:27:51 We are pressing for a two-step plan to have their
10:27:55 designer evaluate the bridge based on the construction
10:27:57 drawings provided, and they were provided from our
10:28:02 department, and if they would proceed with structural
10:28:07 evaluation and design.
10:28:08 We also concluded that two signs are outside the
10:28:12 historic district of Hyde Park.
10:28:14 We did agree to remove the sign structures that ended
10:28:16 up not being necessary, and as pointed out earlier to
10:28:22 you, 33 and 34, and Tampa General Hospital will
10:28:25 install a new sign on the bridge, as long as it is not
10:28:30 extensive bridge structural work necessary.
10:28:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Which one is 33?
10:28:37 >>> That was the lower one on Bayshore.
10:28:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So that's one --
10:28:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: There are two on Bayshore.
10:28:43 >>> That's right. The one closest to the bridge --
10:28:47 closest to the bridge will be necessary but the one on
10:28:50 the southbound sign, the maston would be removed.

10:28:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: On the northbound side closest,
10:28:58 right by the ramp, the proposal is for a 12 by 6 sign.
10:29:03 It's replacing a sign that's much smaller, more like 4
10:29:07 by 8.
10:29:10 I think it's fine that they replace the old sign there
10:29:14 with a new sign because the old sign is kind of rusty
10:29:18 and decrepit.
10:29:20 But have we looked into a smaller sign at the ramp?
10:29:25 >>ROY LAMOTTE: We are looking at the sign size at this
10:29:27 time and determining whether -- it's predicated pretty
10:29:32 much on readability.
10:29:43 >> Two hands went up.
10:29:45 >>> We are also looking at the back of the signs as
10:29:47 well.
10:29:48 Because if there was any protruding from that, they
10:29:51 have to be visually and aesthetically pleasing as
10:29:55 well.
10:29:55 We understand that is an issue and we are taking that
10:29:58 into our review as we look at all signs here in the
10:30:01 city.
10:30:01 But again we are trying to link our transportation
10:30:04 communicating with the general motoring public and

10:30:07 have the least amount of signage as necessary.
10:30:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have heard that some of the signs
10:30:14 might be moving, and I just want reassurance that they
10:30:18 are not.
10:30:20 >>> We are not moving any signs.
10:30:23 >> No, moving in terms of letters.
10:30:27 >> Movable signs.
10:30:31 >> Electronic.
10:30:33 >>> The only sign that has a variable message board,
10:30:36 and I think that's what you are referring to, is the
10:30:38 one on Platt Street.
10:30:40 >> They are not going to have that, correct?
10:30:41 >>> Well, again, at this time we are considering
10:30:44 eliminating it but we do think it's a valuable asset.
10:30:46 >> I would like you to seriously consider it because,
10:30:48 A, it didn't go through the A.R.C. and that is in the
10:30:51 historic district and the one on Platt and Hyde Park
10:30:54 Avenue.
10:30:58 The scale is so inappropriate.
10:31:01 And the other thing is that they didn't go through the
10:31:04 A.R.C. review.
10:31:04 But I don't think there was a problem before.

10:31:08 I think that when Mr. Smith first asked for city signs
10:31:13 he was trying to get the hospital to pick up the tab
10:31:16 on something that was rusty.
10:31:17 I don't think he envisioned the explosion of
10:31:21 additional signs.
10:31:22 I think that he just wanted to replace the existing
10:31:25 ones with something that was in better shape.
10:31:33 >>ROSE FERLITA: I still need some clarification, Mr.
10:31:35 LaMotte.
10:31:36 The sign that's around, I don't know, New Port, that's
10:31:40 going away?
10:31:42 And then the other one that Mr. Dingfelder pointed out
10:31:45 that had the -- maybe at least the potential of
10:31:47 getting bigger is not going to get bigger?
10:31:51 >>> That's correct.
10:31:52 >> Because if it's been that size, certainly the city
10:31:54 would want -- wouldn't want to slight somebody looking
10:31:57 for a hospital.
10:31:58 If that sign served till now, I think we can rehab it.
10:32:01 I don't see any reason to make it larger.
10:32:04 And whatever happens on the bridge, that's fine.
10:32:06 It's away from Bayshore.

10:32:08 And just like I have said before, suggested before,
10:32:14 preached before, your first opening comment was, in
10:32:17 your words, already talked to the folks at Tampa
10:32:19 general, although I hate the word "folks."
10:32:23 But along with that, why don't you guys across the
10:32:28 wall make it a practice when you talk to some
10:32:30 institutional representation, you talk to the people
10:32:34 that are most affected?
10:32:36 So there are no surprises.
10:32:38 Like the generator.
10:32:40 Like the sign.
10:32:41 Like Mr. Hughes.
10:32:42 Like -- like people in that neighbor that come up and
10:32:46 it end up being a cycle of embarrassment because they
10:32:50 call their representatives here.
10:32:51 We don't know anything about it and then it starts
10:32:53 this whole process where you have to backtrack.
10:32:55 And it's so much easier to bring everybody to the
10:32:57 table initially.
10:32:59 So then you can explain why, why not, you don't have
10:33:01 to go back and take the sign down and do all this
10:33:04 stuff that appears to happen on many occasions.

10:33:07 I think that they need to be informed as well.
10:33:10 So I think, gentlemen, I know you were here
10:33:14 particularly for that.
10:33:15 It's my understanding based on our conversation a
10:33:16 couple of weeks ago and many e-mails that he would all
10:33:19 got and what Mr. LaMotte has said on record, that that
10:33:21 should be taken care of.
10:33:23 But it's not cost effective and its counterproductive.
10:33:27 So communication is a wonderful thing.
10:33:30 >>> We concur and we will extend our communication.
10:33:35 >>ROSE FERLITA: Thank you, Roy.
10:33:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Roy, how about a time line on this
10:33:41 when it's going to be finalized?
10:33:43 I have a little bit of concern on this electronic sign
10:33:45 because I don't know that I heard a definitive answer
10:33:47 from you.
10:33:49 On it.
10:33:51 I definitely didn't hear a justification as to why all
10:33:54 of a sudden we would be going with an electronic sign
10:33:57 when there never had been one previously.
10:34:01 Why would they need electronic for?
10:34:04 >>> Again the message is try to communicate the folks

10:34:07 that are coming to special events at the convention
10:34:09 center or downtown core.
10:34:12 This is the one you are referring to on Fowler.
10:34:16 >> This isn't the TGH sign, it's a city sign?
10:34:19 >>> That was a supplemental sign to go on the same
10:34:25 maston.
10:34:27 Why what it may be with Tampa general sign.
10:34:30 >> I see.
10:34:31 So who is paying for that?
10:34:32 >>> Again that would be at city cost on the sign.
10:34:38 >> I think probably we can have a little more
10:34:40 discussion on that but in regard to the TGH sign, when
10:34:44 could we have you come back and give us a little more
10:34:47 report as to what was finalized?
10:34:49 Because I know you still have some questions back and
10:34:51 forth to the consultant.
10:34:52 >>> I would like to ask to after the first of the year
10:34:55 and the rationale for then.
10:34:57 Preliminary design is scheduled to have some
10:34:59 information for us on November 30th with the
10:35:01 upcoming holidays, and being able to fit it into your
10:35:05 agenda.

10:35:07 But again, that's the best I can offer you at the
10:35:09 moment.
10:35:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The one on Platt Street is right
10:35:14 across the street from the Hyde Park Methodist church
10:35:17 which spent a fortune rehabbing their church and
10:35:19 doing, I might add, an absolutely beautiful job, and
10:35:21 the aesthetics between the sign, particularly if it
10:35:26 were electronic stuff on it, and the surrounding
10:35:29 neighborhood is really acute.
10:35:31 And I would urge you, having heard from the public, to
10:35:34 not put electronics there.
10:35:36 If you want to do something like that, do it under the
10:35:39 convention center where there's nothing to lose
10:35:42 aesthetically.
10:35:43 But on that stretch of Platt Street, I mean -- now
10:35:48 where I mean -- it just wouldn't really work.
10:35:50 And I want to share this with the public.
10:35:52 This is not Tampa general's idea.
10:35:53 This was the City of Tampa's transportation
10:35:55 department.
10:35:56 But I really think that what they were thinking of
10:35:58 initially was just getting the hospital to pick up the

10:36:01 tab on the new mastons, not doing this enormous
10:36:07 project.
10:36:07 >>> We will agree and come back with a final analysis
10:36:10 to you.
10:36:10 And I want to go on record saying it's a pleasure to
10:36:13 work with the people at Tampa General Hospital and
10:36:15 they have been very cooperative and understand any
10:36:18 materials that aren't used on these projects be
10:36:20 reused.
10:36:22 >>ROSE FERLITA: Madam Chairman, I don't mean to
10:36:26 disrupt your meeting any more than I already have,
10:36:29 obviously, but this might help us later on.
10:36:31 That's always a problem with having public comment
10:36:34 after department heads are gone and staff.
10:36:36 And I understand, let's say, for instance, you call it
10:36:39 anyway you want.
10:36:40 It's okay with me.
10:36:40 But understand there are people in the audience that
10:36:44 want to talk about other signs.
10:36:45 Is that right, Karen?
10:36:46 So for them to come up later and then for us to ask
10:36:49 Mr. LaMotte to come back and respond if we want to.

10:36:57 >>GWEN MILLER: They can wait till after public
10:36:59 comment.
10:37:03 Department heads don't leave unless they have a
10:37:05 meeting or something.
10:37:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I move to waive the rules.
10:37:10 >>GWEN MILLER: If you waive the rules for that, I have
10:37:13 had a request for another one.
10:37:14 And it might not work out right for the public either.
10:37:19 So I had a request and I turned it down because I
10:37:21 didn't think we could do it because too many other
10:37:23 people want us to move up items.
10:37:25 And I don't think it's fair.
10:37:27 If we move up one, we need to move them all up.
10:37:30 >>ROSE FERLITA: We can do it either way.
10:37:32 But Mr. LaMotte, we will need for you to stick around.
10:37:35 So they have some comments that we can't answer.
10:37:37 Okay?
10:37:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have a problem with that.
10:37:41 Looking at the agenda we have all the way through item
10:37:43 21 till we get to public comment.
10:37:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you want to make a motion to move it
10:37:50 up?

10:37:51 All the ones that have been asked to move up?
10:37:54 It's not fair to move one up when I have been asked
10:37:57 for another one and I say no.
10:37:59 >>ROSE FERLITA: The gentleman that has -- he wants to
10:38:03 have that.
10:38:05 >>GWEN MILLER: I have had a request to move up 82.
10:38:07 So if we are going to move up these, we move them all
10:38:10 up.
10:38:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My motion was to move up public
10:38:15 comments specifically on item 8 to allow it at this
10:38:20 point.
10:38:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
10:38:22 >>GWEN MILLER: I am going to pass the gavel and I
10:38:26 would like to say if we are going to move 82 up, too.
10:38:31 It was at 10:00.
10:38:33 It's 10:40.
10:38:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So you want to have the hearing?
10:38:37 >>GWEN MILLER: No, someone wanted to speak on it
10:38:39 because they have to leave.
10:38:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Hear testimony?
10:38:44 >>ROSE FERLITA: Mr. Steenson asked me, Mr. Steenson
10:38:48 has a doctor's appointment that may or may not result

10:38:50 in admission to the hospital.
10:38:53 So why don't we get the people here for signs to talk
10:38:57 and do that, and then, Gwen, you're right, in an issue
10:39:00 of fairness, then let's Mr. Steenson -- I don't know
10:39:05 if he can because it's a hearing.
10:39:08 >>MARTIN SHELBY: We can move up 82 in its entirety to
10:39:10 allow Mr. Steenson to participate in it, if council so
10:39:13 chooses.
10:39:14 But at a public hearing you have to follow procedure.
10:39:16 >>ROSE FERLITA: Can he even speak on it?
10:39:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Give the petitioner the opportunity
10:39:23 to present his case, to talk as a member of the pun
10:39:27 public, give the petitioner opportunity to rebut,
10:39:29 under staff reports obviously, and then council will
10:39:32 have to make a decision.
10:39:33 But it will have to be in the context of an appeal
10:39:35 hearing.
10:39:36 So you have to follow due process.
10:39:40 It would be inappropriate for Mr. Steenson to come up
10:39:42 out of order, and make public comment.
10:39:45 >>ROSE FERLITA: If we've to do that, Linda, let's do
10:39:48 the 82, and move on and I guess ultimately we are

10:39:52 going to here it today anyway.
10:40:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I second the motion to just deal
10:40:03 with number 8 right now.
10:40:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: These rules of procedure may be
10:40:08 amended by a majority vote -- excuse me, I'm sorry.
10:40:12 Rule B says any of the foregoing rules may be
10:40:14 temporarily suspended for the meeting then in session
10:40:17 by a unanimous vote of the members of council then
10:40:19 present.
10:40:21 >>GWEN MILLER: And when don't have a unanimous -- we
10:40:25 have to have them here.
10:40:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Of the votes present.
10:40:31 I guess the thing to do would be to call the question.
10:40:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Call the question.
10:40:35 (Motion carried)
10:40:36 >>So we'll just hear from people on number 8 and then
10:40:42 we'll deal with 82.
10:40:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone in the public that wants to
10:40:45 speak on item number 8.
10:40:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: After all this.
10:40:52 >>> Karen Crawford.
10:40:54 I do need to be sworn?

10:40:55 >>GWEN MILLER: No.
10:40:56 >>> I am just very concerned.
10:40:57 I felt the one on Bayshore was sad until I arrived on
10:41:01 church and saw the one on Platt Street.
10:41:03 I do not understand why the city does not have to a
10:41:05 bid by the historic guidelines.
10:41:07 I think that needs to be addressed.
10:41:09 It is way too big.
10:41:11 It is out of scale.
10:41:12 It is ugly.
10:41:13 And the sign itself isn't even up.
10:41:15 And the 1905 restored sanctuary is just outlandish and
10:41:24 we have to address it.
10:41:26 We need to go back to an appropriate size sign.
10:41:28 Thank you very much.
10:41:29 >>GWEN MILLER: You're welcome.
10:41:30 Next.
10:41:33 >> Jim Grau, Bayshore resident.
10:41:37 Promise to be brief.
10:41:39 I think we are all probably in agreement the scale and
10:41:43 size is incorrect.
10:41:46 Thank you very much.

10:41:49 I think I heard that we were going to kind of defer
10:41:53 until January 1st.
10:41:54 And I would urge council to make sure that nothing be
10:41:57 done, no construction occur, between now and then,
10:42:01 that something doesn't happen and we are faced with
10:42:03 something we have to retrofit or take out.
10:42:05 Thank you very much.
10:42:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:42:09 Next.
10:42:31 >>> I have been trying to address issues about
10:42:32 Bayshore in a comprehensive, planned-out approach.
10:42:35 And once again, we are here with a little piecemeal
10:42:39 approach, also historic guidelines, you know.
10:42:43 I don't understand how that -- but everybody else has
10:42:49 to follow the rule.
10:42:51 Again, I urge council to remember that we are trying
10:42:53 to look at Bayshore and some comprehensive plan, and
10:43:01 signs that are that big being part of the plan.
10:43:05 Thank you very much.
10:43:05 Again, congratulations to Ms. Ferlita and Mr. White.
10:43:11 >>ROSE FERLITA: Thank you very much, victim I
10:43:18 >> Elizabeth Johnson, Richardson place.

10:43:21 I need to echo what everyone else said.
10:43:23 When my husband and I and I first drove down Bayshore
10:43:28 we could not believe it.
10:43:29 When the city gets involved and even innocently
10:43:32 creating something that really hurts Bayshore, and our
10:43:35 beautiful historic district, it just makes us all kind
10:43:37 of upset.
10:43:38 So I am glad that you are doing the right thing and
10:43:40 glad staff is doing the right thing.
10:43:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:43:43 Next.
10:43:47 >>MARGARET VIZZI: 213 south Sherill.
10:43:50 As part of the sign committee that works so hard for a
10:43:55 year and a half, two years, almost two years, we had
10:43:59 great concern.
10:44:00 I understand this sign on Platt now, it seems, would
10:44:05 become a government sign, and right now government
10:44:07 signs are exempt.
10:44:08 But as part of those recommendations on the sign
10:44:11 committee, government would have -- I constantly heard
10:44:18 people say they don't understand why the city can have
10:44:20 any government entity, have all these signs that

10:44:24 change messages, and yet the general public can't.
10:44:28 So I would encourage you not to let this sign be where
10:44:34 it is on Platt.
10:44:35 I think Ms. Saul-Sena, she said if it's near the
10:44:41 bridge, that's fine, or under the convention center
10:44:44 walkway.
10:44:45 But, please, don't leave that sign on Platt.
10:44:49 I come up that way every day -- not every day.
10:44:52 Every time I come to these meetings or come downtown.
10:44:55 And I was just appalled when I saw that post the first
10:45:01 time I saw it.
10:45:01 And I have not seen the one on the Bayshore.
10:45:06 It's terrible.
10:45:08 So, please, I would ask that transportation even look
10:45:12 at those issues as to the aesthetics in the city in
10:45:17 general and not leave that sign the way it is proposed
10:45:20 to be.
10:45:21 Thank you.
10:45:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:45:22 Would anyone else like to speak on item 8?
10:45:25 Okay.
10:45:25 Mr. Dingfelder.

10:45:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ms. Coyle, if you could, I sent an
10:45:32 e-mail.
10:45:35 Coyle.
10:45:35 I sent an e-mail the other day and you probably
10:45:38 answered it and I haven't seen it back, about the
10:45:40 overlay district committee.
10:45:42 We started meeting.
10:45:43 These are the kind of issues that I think could be
10:45:45 bundled up into the Bayshore overlay.
10:45:48 >>> That's what I was just speaking to Julia about.
10:45:51 >> Where are we on that?
10:45:52 Do we have any meetings scheduled?
10:45:54 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I sent the memo a couple of weeks
10:45:56 ago telling you the time line for the scenic corridor
10:45:59 designation, the comp plan and the overlay subsequent
10:46:02 to that.
10:46:02 I expect to have a draft, kind of a template draft in
10:46:06 February, of regulations.
10:46:08 The overlay, I was hoping to have a meeting in late
10:46:11 January, or early February, back at Kate Jackson to
10:46:14 bring that group back together to discuss the template
10:46:18 for the overlay from the first meeting that we had.

10:46:20 And then April through June, I believe, is when I had
10:46:23 the memo, as where we had the public, the publicly
10:46:27 noticed and the City Council noticed workshop is where
10:46:30 we actually bring everybody together.
10:46:31 So I wanted to have a second workshop at Kate Jackson
10:46:36 to go over what happened with the first one, make sure
10:46:38 the template is correct, to get a consensus on what
10:46:41 the framework is going to be, and then have follow-up
10:46:44 meetings between April and June to nail down the
10:46:46 language exactly, and then hopefully ask you to
10:46:48 transmit July or August, which will run in the same
10:46:52 time loin as the scenic corridor designation which
10:46:54 will run in September of next year.
10:46:57 The overlay was proposed to be adopted in October of
10:46:59 next year right afterwards.
10:47:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think we have been very clear
10:47:04 that these are also the kind of issues that we
10:47:06 probably need to wrap into the --
10:47:09 >> Been paying attention to it to make sure and I just
10:47:12 clarified with Julia that we can work on language
10:47:14 regarding these types of signs in the overlay as well.
10:47:17 >> I would say signs and frankly any utility type of

10:47:19 structures.
10:47:21 They need to have a higher level of scrutiny.
10:47:23 >> We can work on addressing that.
10:47:25 >> And the other thing, Madam Chair, is I would like
10:47:29 to go ahead and make a motion that Mr. LaMotte come
10:47:32 back to us the first week in January and give us an
10:47:36 update on this, and also urge that staff and TGH not
10:47:40 install anything new.
10:47:42 They can take anything out that they want but not
10:47:45 install anything new until after we get a report.
10:47:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:47:49 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
10:47:51 (Motion carried).
10:47:53 We now go to number 82.
10:47:56 Open the hearing.
10:47:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I move that when waive the rules to
10:48:00 allow to us open the public hearing of 82.
10:48:09 (Motion carried) Ms. Coyle.
10:48:14 >> The project before you, case V 06-50 is a peel of a
10:48:30 zoning administrator position, the request is within
10:48:32 did CI commercial intensive zoning classification.
10:48:35 They are requesting a single family attached

10:48:36 residential development.
10:48:42 They have access to a local street.
10:48:44 And under the special use criteria, they are supposed
10:48:47 to meet the RM-24 setbacks.
10:48:51 If you notice in the report, that I sat through, they
10:48:56 are reducing a front yard on Paul Avenue from 25 to 10
10:49:01 feet and 20 to 10 feet along McElroy Avenue.
10:49:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry to interrupt.
10:49:07 But this being an appeal hearing --
10:49:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone that's going to speak on item 82
10:49:14 please stand and raise your right hand.
10:49:18 (Oath administered by Clerk).
10:49:24 >>> And all of my testimony up to this point has been
10:49:27 truthful.
10:49:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I don't know if there is any material
10:49:30 to be received and filed relative to this.
10:49:33 And again, council, if there's been any ex parte
10:49:36 communications pleas disclose it prior to voting.
10:49:43 >>> Single family attached units, they are requesting
10:49:45 25 units.
10:49:47 Eight of the units maintain frontage along McElroy
10:49:50 Avenue to the north which is a local street, frontage

10:49:54 on the drive aisle.
10:49:59 McElroy and Paul Avenue to the south.
10:50:01 Each unit contains a 2-car garage with a maximum
10:50:04 building height of 35 feet.
10:50:10 Pages 2, 3 and top of 4 are noted staff objections.
10:50:13 I maintained an objection to waiver note number 3 on
10:50:15 the site plan.
10:50:17 They had put an all encompassing waiver in there for
10:50:21 the actual single-family design standards.
10:50:27 Which they cannot waive through this process.
10:50:28 They have agreed to meet them.
10:50:33 Furthermore the landscape objections there, were
10:50:35 numerous bullets in there.
10:50:36 She did note, though, that all of the bullets could be
10:50:38 relieved with additional notes on the site plan with
10:50:40 the exception of bullet number 2
10:50:45 They would have to go through and do a foundation.
10:50:47 There is an off-site tree which could potentially be
10:50:51 removed, would need to be added to your tree table.
10:50:56 Furthermore the stormwater objections.
10:50:58 There were three objections.
10:50:59 They are simple notes that need to be added to the

10:51:01 plan.
10:51:02 With that, basically, the majority of the objections
10:51:06 with the exception of one, which might cause slight
10:51:09 graphical change, can be relieved through a note.
10:51:13 Mr. Horner did provide me with additional language
10:51:15 that he approached staff about today.
10:51:17 And it appears that it meets those objections.
10:51:22 I would note for council on the aerial that I
10:51:25 provided, you see a slight hatching, that in yellow
10:51:30 overlaying this area.
10:51:33 As you recall this is Gandy to the north.
10:51:38 This is Westshore Boulevard.
10:51:40 The hatching is essentially approximately all the area
10:51:42 that you have rezoned for residential and mixed use
10:51:45 development.
10:51:48 This is the old basin area, New Port development.
10:51:52 There has been other smaller rezonings along what used
10:51:59 to be full ton street, approved a PD rezoning for
10:52:03 several town homes in the area as well and along
10:52:06 Price.
10:52:08 So as far as the development pattern, it's consistent
10:52:10 with the type of use going in that area.

10:52:15 If he so choose to move forward, the case would need
10:52:19 to be continued a minimum of two weeks.
10:52:21 Mr. Horner has indicated that he can revise the plan
10:52:23 by Monday which would be the deadline.
10:52:26 Working on the construction notes that he needs. With
10:52:29 that I will turn it over to the petitioner.
10:52:33 >> Michael Horner, North Dale Mabry highway, Tampa,
10:52:41 representing applicant.
10:52:42 I have been sworn.
10:52:46 As Cathy noted I am going try to make this easy.
10:52:49 It's been frustrating for us since we filed plans,
10:52:53 they were misplaced, just found about three weeks ago.
10:52:56 The staff report was not sent to our office until
10:52:59 about 6:15 last night and Cathy is working her tail
10:53:02 off.
10:53:03 Between 7:00 last night and 9:00 this morning, we have
10:53:05 been franticly trying to resolve these issues.
10:53:08 I think we resolved 95% of them as Cathy noted.
10:53:12 We can revise those plans by Monday.
10:53:14 I talked with Mr. Steenson.
10:53:17 I believe it's difficult for him and we understand
10:53:24 that.

10:53:24 The only issue remaining is perhaps an off-site tree
10:53:27 that Cathy noted.
10:53:28 We are going to go over there this weekend,
10:53:30 incorporate those in our notes, revise the tree table.
10:53:32 So we respectfully request that we allow that planned
10:53:36 submittal on Monday and come back 11:30 for first
10:53:39 reading so we can have good ears, good plan and good
10:53:42 presentation for you.
10:53:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The first thing that jumped out on
10:53:48 me on this, I couldn't help but wonder why you didn't
10:53:50 just come in with a PD to start with.
10:53:53 Seems like a lot of changes and moving and this and
10:53:58 that for an S-1 request.
10:54:03 >>> Well, a good question, Mr. Dingfelder.
10:54:05 I guess my simple response was, it's not a major
10:54:09 issue.
10:54:10 Melanie Calloway has approved routinely. The setback
10:54:13 issues, since the distance setback and CI ten feet,
10:54:18 height of our building is actually ten feet shorter
10:54:20 from the tallest building submitted in the CI
10:54:23 district.
10:54:23 We assume that is not a difficult issue as well.

10:54:25 We thought the appeal was a more straightforward
10:54:28 approach than the actual PD.
10:54:29 Now, in retrospect, I question that determination.
10:54:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone in the public want to speak on
10:54:37 item 82?
10:54:44 >>> Al Steenson.
10:54:45 I have been sworn.
10:54:47 Representing Gandy civic association.
10:54:49 I was under the impression from Mr. Horner that he's
10:54:53 going to ask for a two-week continuance.
10:54:55 That's not what -- I don't think I just heard that.
10:54:58 I sent to each of you an e-mail stating the
10:55:02 association's position based on a vote that was taken
10:55:06 this past Monday, and I would hope that you have it at
10:55:10 this point.
10:55:10 If not, I would like to put it in the record.
10:55:14 However, if it is going to be continued for two, we,
10:55:17 we would have no objections and maybe they can come
10:55:20 back with something that when would find more
10:55:22 palatable to the membership.
10:55:23 So we have no objections to a two-week continuance.
10:55:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Would you want to meet -- do you want

10:55:33 him to meet with you before he comes back in two weeks
10:55:36 and shows you the plans?
10:55:37 >>> Absolutely.
10:55:37 And I will do my best to get the board together and we
10:55:43 will get together someplace and go over what he has.
10:55:45 Because we want to be fair.
10:55:47 But, you know, we don't object.
10:55:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think timingwise, we better make
10:55:56 that three weeks.
10:55:57 Because if we do a two-week continuance, the plans
10:56:02 have to be in Monday by Monday and that doesn't give
10:56:05 anybody any time.
10:56:06 So you're okay with three weeks?
10:56:09 >>> We prefer to maintain the two, if Mr. Steenson
10:56:12 agrees and staff agrees, we'll certainly have the
10:56:14 plans in Monday morning.
10:56:15 We have a contract that we are probably going to have
10:56:18 to file an extension on quite honestly.
10:56:21 The changes are minor, if that.
10:56:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The objection that is he has
10:56:25 standing are not minor because what he said in his
10:56:27 letter indicate that they have a problem with the

10:56:30 setback.
10:56:31 And I don't think you are adjusting the setback, from
10:56:33 what I heard the conversation.
10:56:35 >>> That's correct.
10:56:36 For the benefit of a three week versus a two week,
10:56:38 then it would serve minimal purpose.
10:56:40 We do want to review the plan, design architectural
10:56:43 elevations, parking, other issues, as well as the
10:56:45 landscape locations.
10:56:47 I don't think we will resolve the setback issue quite
10:56:53 honestly, Mr. Dingfelder.
10:56:54 >> If you tell me under oath that you have a contract
10:56:56 that's expiring, and that three weeks will make a
10:56:59 difference as opposed to two weeks, then I'll respect
10:57:01 that.
10:57:02 But you were a little vague on that.
10:57:06 >>> Allow me to make a phone call and I'll defer.
10:57:09 I don't have that contract with me.
10:57:10 That was the understanding that I have.
10:57:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would also like to point out in
10:57:14 two weeks council will only have five members.
10:57:17 Just a thought.

10:57:20 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Make your phone call.
10:57:27 >>CHAIRMAN: We need a motion for three weeks
10:57:29 continuance.
10:57:36 >>CHAIRMAN: And second.
10:57:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second with encouragement to meet
10:57:39 with the neighborhood.
10:57:41 >>CATHERINE COYLE: That's December 6th at 10 a.m.
10:57:43 >>CHAIRMAN: We go back to item number 9.
10:57:49 Is Mr. Thom Snelling here?
10:57:51 >>MARY ALVAREZ: December 7th, isn't it?
10:57:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Number 9.
10:57:58 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
10:58:01 Thom Snelling did submit a memo for the record.
10:58:03 I believe you have a copy.
10:58:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Number 9.
10:58:11 >>ROSE FERLITA: He did.
10:58:12 And I was the one that brought this up.
10:58:15 I had another situation in South Tampa pretty much
10:58:18 along the same line.
10:58:19 I think at some point, whenever Mr. Snelling's
10:58:23 calendar will allow him to do it, probably get the
10:58:29 same type of concerns from constituents, come in, talk

10:58:31 about why that happens.
10:58:32 Because people are inconvenienced, and don't
10:58:37 understand why they can't have 18.5 instead of 18-A,
10:58:43 18-B.
10:58:47 And I know that it's a public safety issue.
10:58:51 And I think it links to some of the regulations of the
10:58:54 county.
10:58:54 But just from the standpoint of public information,
10:59:00 it's up to you all.
10:59:01 I am not going to be here obviously.
10:59:03 But you might want Mr. Snelling to explain, people
10:59:06 have to change their stationary, change this.
10:59:09 When 911 comes outs, I don't know that they want an A
10:59:13 or B.
10:59:14 So some of it has been grandfathered in.
10:59:16 Some of it hasn't.
10:59:18 If someone wants to make that motion.
10:59:19 I don't want to do it and burden you.
10:59:27 He probably needs to explain that.
10:59:30 I don't want to make more work for you.
10:59:32 >> That's okay.
10:59:32 >> I would like to make a motion that Mr. Snelling is

10:59:35 not here, so maybe we can put it on the pending, have
10:59:38 him look at it and when it's convenient for him, come
10:59:41 and explain what that whole process is, what we are
10:59:44 obligated under and what regulations, that go back to
10:59:48 the county so people understand it.
10:59:49 It's public safety trumps convenience, and people will
10:59:52 understand about the changes.
10:59:55 That's the motion.
10:59:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second but not on pending.
11:00:01 >>ROSE FERLITA: Do you want to make a motion?
11:00:03 Because a month, if it's not enough you can come back.
11:00:08 I think you Ned somebody from maybe fire rescue and
11:00:12 whoever else you think needs to come back to explain
11:00:14 that it is a public safety issue.
11:00:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Maybe December 14th under staff
11:00:21 reports.
11:00:22 >>ROSE FERLITA: That's the motion.
11:00:25 >>MARY ALVAREZ: That's December 7th or --
11:00:29 >> 14th.
11:00:29 >>ROSE FERLITA: And I have also instructed Ms. CURY to
11:00:39 explain to him -- otherwise, he already met with some
11:00:42 people there like he usually does and takes care of

11:00:44 stuff but allows him to make contact.
11:00:47 Then information can help you move forward.
11:00:49 Thank you.
11:00:49 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
11:00:51 (Motion carried)
11:00:53 Item number 10 has a request we continue to next week.
11:00:58 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, if I can, I believe council
11:01:01 is not meeting next week.
11:01:03 The next council meeting is November 30th.
11:01:07 November 30th, as you recall --
11:01:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: December 7th.
11:01:14 >>ROSE FERLITA: I would be curious what the reason was
11:01:18 for request for continuance.
11:01:19 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a letter that says we are
11:01:22 supposed to move things out two weeks.
11:01:24 >>> No, we are not supposed to, that's what the
11:01:25 administration tells you to do.
11:01:28 But we have had people for a long time dancing a --
11:01:31 tap dancing around this and isn't it convenient that
11:01:34 Ms. Ferlita will be gone next week.
11:01:35 I gave you the whole litany of all the e-mails we got
11:01:38 back.

11:01:39 I am telling you, council, it is a bad precedent.
11:01:41 I how much that you all address this, whatever they
11:01:43 decide they want to talk about it.
11:01:45 But for somebody, in this particular case, the one I'm
11:01:49 addressing, you asphalt over sidewalks, Ms. Saul-Sena,
11:01:57 I wouldn't be surprised if you don't go out there
11:01:59 individually and fight this tooth and nail.
11:02:01 What are we doing?
11:02:02 If we allow one bar or one restaurant on Howard Avenue
11:02:05 to asphalt over sidewalks, you're starting a really,
11:02:11 really dangerous precedent.
11:02:12 I know you all want to continue it again.
11:02:14 But, Roy, I'm really, really disappointed on this
11:02:17 particular issue from transportation.
11:02:18 Nobody wants to tell me who issued the permit.
11:02:20 Somebody issued the permit.
11:02:21 They did it.
11:02:22 And now we have got to wait for yet another week.
11:02:25 Why?
11:02:25 Why?
11:02:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. LaMotte, can you speak to that?
11:02:29 >>ROSE FERLITA: We have people that live right across

11:02:30 the street so now the parking is closer to their
11:02:33 house.
11:02:33 I would be angry if this I were them.
11:02:35 >>ROY LAMOTTE: Good morning, council, again.
11:02:38 The item was being held over for me, chief of staff,
11:02:44 public works administrator, on this item.
11:02:46 I also attempted to reach your office --
11:02:49 >>ROSE FERLITA: No, we have had e-mails coming and
11:02:52 going and nobody has answered this since September,
11:02:55 Roy.
11:02:56 And I am sure, I hate to end on a bad foot here but I
11:03:01 have to on this one.
11:03:02 I had every confidence in the world that all those
11:03:05 e-mails that went back and forth and back and forth
11:03:08 and became public record, your chief of staffer was
11:03:10 aware of it.
11:03:11 Now why we have to have another week for he to be
11:03:15 re-aware of it is very disappointing.
11:03:18 >>ROY LAMOTTE: I can only say to you at this moment in
11:03:20 time that I will bring you facts forward that the
11:03:24 sidewalk was not overlaid in this particular case, it
11:03:26 was a utility trench.

11:03:30 I have photographs to prove that and will be glad to
11:03:33 share that with you at the time we take the item in
11:03:35 detail.
11:03:35 >>ROSE FERLITA: I look forward to hearing that when
11:03:38 I'm on that side of the podium.
11:03:40 >> I am not here to suggest to you that we are doing
11:03:44 unnecessarily.
11:03:45 We have done a great deal of homework.
11:03:47 We have a great deal of facts to share with you.
11:03:49 Again it's a pleasure to deal with all members of
11:03:52 council.
11:03:52 I know you won't be here but on behalf of public works
11:03:55 it's been a pleasure to deal with you.
11:03:57 >>> As well, sir, except on this issue.
11:03:59 What you are saying, if I understand, what seems to be
11:04:02 conflicting, there was not a permit issued for them to
11:04:05 just asphalt over the sidewalks, and make parking
11:04:09 configurations there.
11:04:10 That was not allowed.
11:04:13 If that's the case, colleagues, when they do come back
11:04:16 and discuss it, what are you guys going to do about
11:04:18 the fact that now somebody says there was a permit.

11:04:20 Now Roy is saying there was a permit.
11:04:23 So either we made a mistake, we meaning the City of
11:04:26 Tampa and should not have allowed that, or the owner
11:04:29 of this business did that without any permitting.
11:04:33 And so somebody needs to go look at.
11:04:36 It.
11:04:37 Goo look at it.
11:04:46 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Tell me the policy of the City of
11:04:47 Tampa is that when do not allow sidewalks to be taken
11:04:51 out and paved over for parking because that is legally
11:04:57 anti- to everything we are trying to do on sidewalks.
11:05:04 >>> Absolutely.
11:05:05 We keep connectivity wherever possible.
11:05:06 We are a city that's going to be a walkable community.
11:05:09 And we will continue that process of putting in
11:05:12 sidewalks.
11:05:15 >>ROSE FERLITA: Mr. Harrison, I ask you as a potential
11:05:17 city-wide member -- is my closing request.
11:05:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: December 7th or 14th?
11:05:35 14th.
11:05:39 >>ROSE FERLITA: Roy, nothing personal.
11:05:42 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Parting shot.

11:05:46 [ Laughter ]
11:05:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 10.
11:05:49 To the 14th?
11:05:50 All in favor say Aye.
11:05:51 (Motion carried)
11:05:52 Item number 13.
11:05:54 They are asking it to be continued to November 30 so
11:05:57 Mr. David Smith our city attorney will be here to
11:06:01 speak on it.
11:06:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, again I am going to ask that
11:06:04 you propose a later date than November 30th.
11:06:08 >>SHAWN HARRISON: CBD, bonus periphery.
11:06:10 >>CHAIRMAN: Number 13.
11:06:14 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I agree, that's going to be highly
11:06:15 technical, convoluted.
11:06:18 I'm not sure after two weeks vacation we are all going
11:06:20 to be in an ability to deal with that.
11:06:24 >>ROSE FERLITA: Plus Mr. Smith --
11:06:26 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I know, this last week.
11:06:28 >>ROSE FERLITA: And Mr. Smith is out someplace doing
11:06:30 something silly like getting married so he's probably
11:06:33 not going to be ready to discuss it.

11:06:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
11:06:37 December what?
11:06:42 >>GWEN MILLER: 14th okay, Ms. Coyle?
11:06:45 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
11:06:46 14th is fine.
11:06:47 You have a night meeting that anytime.
11:06:48 I don't know if you want to put it on the next day.
11:06:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The 21st.
11:06:59 >>MARY ALVAREZ: So moved.
11:07:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It should be at the end of the
11:07:14 meeting.
11:07:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Periphery, number 13.
11:07:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'll be short, I promise.
11:07:22 >>GWEN MILLER: 21st.
11:07:24 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Is that what you are saying, 1:30?
11:07:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Not 1:30, at end of meeting.
11:07:32 >>GWEN MILLER: We have things to take care of and the
11:07:34 21st is not a good date.
11:07:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: How about the 14th?
11:07:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to continue number 13
11:07:45 to end of meeting on the 14th.
11:07:48 (Motion carried).

11:07:49 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I know this skipped to item 13, item
11:07:51 number 11 you are holding, and number 12 you have
11:07:56 already taken.
11:07:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 14.
11:08:11 You have a written report for that?
11:08:13 Ms. Alvarez, did you get that?
11:08:15 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I didn't see it but that doesn't
11:08:17 mean --
11:08:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have it in the backup here.
11:08:24 >>ROSE FERLITA: Madam Chairman, let me interject
11:08:27 something here.
11:08:32 I brought this issue up Thursday, because of the
11:08:34 issues that the neighbors had brought up, and Ms.
11:08:37 Alvarez and the rest of you were strongly supportive
11:08:39 of my suggestion.
11:08:41 And I do want to tell you, coincidences are
11:08:44 coincidences, I suppose, but the very next morning
11:08:47 there was a for-sale sign on that house.
11:08:49 But that doesn't mean anything, though.
11:08:53 I can put a for-sale sign up there and still in
11:08:56 violation of lots of stuff.
11:08:57 So please, again, Ms. Saul-Sena, this is one I ask you

11:09:01 to look, Mr. Dingfelder, you as well, please follow
11:09:05 through.
11:09:06 Because a sign doesn't mean anything.
11:09:08 And here are some action files.
11:09:14 >>GWEN MILLER: So what do you want to move?
11:09:22 >>ROSE FERLITA: Motion of violation for deteriorating
11:09:26 structure.
11:09:27 They withdrew their notice of violation issue for.
11:09:31 Notice of violation for the owner for doing exterior
11:09:33 work on the structure without A.R.C. approval.
11:09:36 Notice of violation issued for nonoperative vehicle.
11:09:39 There's tons of them.
11:09:41 I think Mr. Shelby handed this to me.
11:09:43 Remember, Mary, I think it's your request or mine, we
11:09:46 talked about this.
11:09:47 And there's much here for your reading pleasure to
11:09:50 show the violations and how long it's lasted.
11:09:52 So Linda, again, I beg of you, as a citizen who lives
11:09:55 on Willow, please don't let this continue.
11:10:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: February 1st under staff
11:10:15 reports, an update on how we are doing with code
11:10:18 enforcement.

11:10:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Need a second.
11:10:22 We have a motion and second.
11:10:24 All in favor say Aye.
11:10:27 >> 712 south Willow Avenue.
11:10:29 >> I would encourage somebody to put an illuminated
11:10:32 sign around the for-sale.
11:10:34 [ Laughter ]
11:10:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
11:10:37 I see Cathy, we go back to item number 6.
11:10:46 >> Jane castor, Tampa Police Department.
11:10:48 And I was asked to come and make a presentation on the
11:10:53 possibility of giving our Spanish speaking officers
11:11:02 special incentive.
11:11:03 We have looked at that.
11:11:04 Tampa Police Department tries to serve our ever
11:11:06 increasing Spanish speaking population within the City
11:11:09 of Tampa.
11:11:10 And we do recruit, actively recruit and hire and
11:11:16 retain span usual speaking officers.
11:11:17 We hired 20 Spanish speaking officers in the last two
11:11:21 years.
11:11:22 We have approximately 14% of our force is Hispanic,

11:11:26 not necessarily all of them speak Spanish, we have 87
11:11:31 employees that speak Spanish fluently.
11:11:36 Usually if you have a language proficiency program in
11:11:38 a department, it's usually used as a tool to try to
11:11:41 recruit Spanish speaking officers.
11:11:43 And we really, as the Tampa Police Department, have no
11:11:46 difficulty in recruiting Hispanics and or Spanish
11:11:50 speaking officers or employees, for that matter.
11:11:53 Also, with any type of a specialty payment, that is
11:11:58 covered under our contract, which has to be negotiated
11:12:02 between the PDA and the City of Tampa.
11:12:05 So it isn't something that we could institute without
11:12:08 taking it through the contract that's covered under
11:12:13 article 30.
11:12:13 But another issue with the language proficiency
11:12:19 programs is the administration of it.
11:12:20 You have to determine what fluency, how to determine
11:12:27 fluency in a foreign language, how that's certified
11:12:30 and how you keep the recertification up and who is
11:12:32 going to look after that program.
11:12:35 So the language proficiency program.
11:12:42 Does anybody have any questions.

11:12:47 >> Just a brief comment, the Spanish speaking
11:12:53 population that we have is increasing all the time so
11:12:55 we think that's wonderful and the more encouragement
11:12:59 to coming in and being able to be bilingual, gosh,
11:13:03 that helps the communication between police and
11:13:05 citizens.
11:13:05 I think this is just great.
11:13:09 >>> And there are instances where you do need foreign
11:13:12 speaking officer.
11:13:13 It's usually Spanish obviously.
11:13:14 And there are instances where you need that
11:13:17 immediately.
11:13:17 And we do have detectives on each of our squad,
11:13:22 homicide, robbery, that do speak Spanish.
11:13:25 We have officers in specialty positions in West Tampa,
11:13:28 in locations that are heavily populated by Hispanics.
11:13:31 And we also look at other areas, not necessarily
11:13:34 having the officers proficient in a language, but we
11:13:37 just came out with a form, the Tampa Police Department
11:13:41 came out with a questionnaire, and all of the
11:13:43 questions are in Spanish, and then when you flip over
11:13:46 to the other side, all the answers are in English.

11:13:49 So we can give it to someone -- they can fill out the
11:13:52 answers and then the officer has the answers in
11:13:54 English.
11:13:55 So, you know, we do look for alternative ways for our
11:14:02 Spanish speaking population and we are always open to
11:14:04 ideas.
11:14:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:14:07 We appreciate that.
11:14:09 We have the mayor here.
11:14:10 Why are you here?
11:14:12 [ Laughter ]
11:14:14 >>ROSE FERLITA: To let you know that she's bilingual.
11:14:17 [ Laughter ]
11:14:17 >>MAYOR PAM IORIO: May I take a few moments?
11:14:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes, you may.
11:14:26 >>MAYOR PAM IORIO: Today is the last day for two of
11:14:28 the council members.
11:14:29 >>ROSE FERLITA: Thank God.
11:14:30 >> A sigh of relief over there on that side of the
11:14:33 dais.
11:14:34 But I did want to stop by and express my best wishes
11:14:37 to the two of you as you move on to the county

11:14:40 commission.
11:14:41 I want to start first with you, Kevin.
11:14:43 I have something for each of you.
11:14:44 It is something we give to many visiting dignitaries
11:14:48 who come from all over and it is our special Tampa
11:14:50 plays plate that we had made up and something that I
11:14:52 hope that you will keep.
11:14:54 We have been working together on East Tampa since the
11:14:56 first day that we both came to the city.
11:14:59 I so appreciate your leadership in East Tampa.
11:15:04 It's been a pleasure working with you.
11:15:05 I wish you well as you move onto the county commission
11:15:08 and hope you will always remember fondly your days
11:15:10 here on the City Council.
11:15:11 [ Applause ]
11:15:33 >> One last photo OP.
11:15:37 >> Save this picture, Tampa Bay.
11:15:40 >> You are a supporter of public safety and I know
11:15:43 that our police and fire have really appreciated that.
11:15:45 You know our crime rate has gone down almost 30% over
11:15:49 the past three years and our figures will come out for
11:15:52 '06 which show a greater reception.

11:15:54 I know how much the men and women of the police
11:15:57 department appreciate your support as well as the fire
11:15:58 department.
11:15:59 You have always been such a steady performer.
11:16:02 I know you will continue that on the county.
11:16:04 I hope you enjoy your days on the county commission.
11:16:07 It's a great challenge ahead.
11:16:08 And I know that you will do it with all that great
11:16:13 fight that you have in you.
11:16:20 >> She has an ax now.
11:16:22 [ Laughter ]
11:16:23 >>GWEN MILLER: You are going to be taking it to the
11:16:33 county commission.
11:16:34 >>> I wish you all the best.
11:16:36 [ Applause ]
11:16:43 >>> I cannot believe that Pam wasn't watching and
11:16:47 shared a very personal issue, a couple years ago.
11:16:50 You and I were at "Paint Your Heart Out" and you were
11:16:54 a smart-aleck and painted my shirt and I was a
11:16:56 smart-aleck back and painted your shirt.
11:16:59 Do you remember that?
11:17:00 It's been a long time.

11:17:02 That was very near and dear to my heart.
11:17:05 I still have it.
11:17:07 Weed eater and everything else.
11:17:14 Madam Chairman, again, this is so important.
11:17:16 I don't mean to say this but I am so happy that Pam is
11:17:19 here and I will tell you why.
11:17:24 This is a really good thing.
11:17:26 And Pam, correct me if you don't feel the same way but
11:17:29 I think we do and it's no secret.
11:17:31 Lots of times Pam and I disagreed and lots of times we
11:17:34 are not happy with each other and lots of times we are
11:17:36 absolutely on separate sides than of an issue.
11:17:39 But the very morning after I had gone -- we were on
11:17:45 Platt Street bridge and waiving signs, thank-yous and
11:17:48 things, and obviously congratulations and all those
11:17:51 nice advertise.
11:17:52 But let's start right away if you want to, to partner
11:17:58 on a situation or issue and that would be
11:18:00 transportation.
11:18:00 I told her that I agreed with what she had done and
11:18:02 how we needed to be very regional in our attitude and
11:18:05 multi-modal, et cetera, et cetera, and we committed to

11:18:08 that.
11:18:08 We are going to do that and try to work with the city
11:18:11 and the county.
11:18:12 And shortly after that, Cathy castor invited me to go
11:18:15 spend some time with her.
11:18:16 She committed to -- she was excited that you and I
11:18:20 talked about that and ware going to do something
11:18:21 together in partnership.
11:18:22 And she committed very quickly to do what she could to
11:18:27 kind of finish that link, and Washington and hopefully
11:18:33 lead to some transportation issues.
11:18:34 Right after that, at town and country parade, I ran
11:18:39 into Michael Shonti, and Pam and I were working on it,
11:18:49 and we have city and county planning, rep AP and
11:18:55 democrat, so in all seriousness, lie forward to
11:18:58 working with you.
11:19:03 >>MAYOR PAM IORIO: Thank you.
11:19:04 [ Applause ]
11:19:08 >>> A happy Thanksgiving to all of you.
11:19:11 We have a lot to be thankful for in the city.
11:19:13 >>CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
11:19:15 Now we go to item 15.

11:19:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I am going to defer to the city clerk
11:19:23 Shirley Foxx-Knowles.
11:19:24 I believe she has some information that would be
11:19:26 helpful to council.
11:19:35 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: City clerk. The city clerk's
11:19:39 office is in the process of updating the procedures
11:19:41 for the boards and committees, a more formalized
11:19:45 procedure will be in place in the next few weeks.
11:19:48 The updated procedures will include keeping the boards
11:19:52 and committee web site updated, providing a quarterly
11:19:56 report to council regarding all board and committee
11:20:01 vacancies and applicants, updating the application
11:20:04 form, noting when the form is received in our office,
11:20:07 and the disposition, and providing for better
11:20:11 communication with the board coordinators.
11:20:15 We will also be advertising to fill vacancies when
11:20:18 needed.
11:20:23 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Briefly, I believe it's council's
11:20:25 consensus that there is to be no automatic
11:20:32 reappointment for an open seat.
11:20:35 So when one's term is expired, doesn't have to reapply
11:20:39 and that is brought before council for decision.

11:20:41 And that's my understanding, that that's the desire of
11:20:44 council.
11:20:44 And the other thing is, particularly to Ms. Fox Knolls
11:20:51 statement in general, council is going to start to get
11:20:53 the quarterly reports, but to bring council up to
11:20:56 speed, and Ms. Ferlita, this is in particular to your
11:20:59 question with regard to Mr. Roberts' application.
11:21:04 In order to catch up, those items, I am asking council
11:21:07 to allow the clerk to bring them forth in a memo prior
11:21:10 to an agenda item for discussion if council would
11:21:14 allow December 14th or whatever day council
11:21:16 wishes.
11:21:16 Or if council wishes to hold it till later.
11:21:19 But this would allow the catch-up to be able to
11:21:21 institute these new procedures.
11:21:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I move to put that on our December
11:21:28 14th agenda.
11:21:28 Thank you, Ms. Foxx-Knowles, this is something that's
11:21:32 been amiss and now is straightened out.
11:21:35 That is all for the good.
11:21:37 Thank you very much.
11:21:37 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.

11:21:38 (Motion carried)
11:21:41 Item number 16.
11:21:44 Fran Davin.
11:21:49 >> Fran Davin: Good morning, Madam Chairman, members
11:21:51 of the council.
11:21:52 Fran Davin, special assistant to the mayor, and we are
11:21:55 here this morning in response to a request from
11:21:58 council to appear on council's agenda and give an
11:22:04 update on the homeless issue.
11:22:07 I'm not sure how much detail you were looking for.
11:22:11 But since I am not on the board of the coalition, I am
11:22:17 going to ask Christine Burdick to be here to speak on
11:22:20 behalf of the coalition.
11:22:24 Chief Castor is here, if you have any questions
11:22:27 regarding law enforcement.
11:22:30 And Julia Cole is here if anyone wants to speak to the
11:22:34 legal and first amendment items.
11:22:38 So I will turn the microphone over to Ms. Burdick to
11:22:43 give you the coalition update.
11:22:51 >>> Christine Burdick.
11:22:55 I am with the Tampa downtown partnership but also
11:22:57 serve on the homeless coalition board.

11:22:58 And I was the co-chair of the homeless coalition task
11:23:01 force that worked last year, provided a report last
11:23:05 October.
11:23:08 Homelessness is a very complex community problem, as
11:23:11 we all know, and doesn't lend itself to any easy
11:23:18 solution.
11:23:18 Feeding sites, especially those in downtown, are an
11:23:21 important issue.
11:23:22 But only are part of the overall serious problem that
11:23:25 we face, both by the community as well as the homeless
11:23:28 in general.
11:23:30 Feeding sites in the past don't lead to any permanent
11:23:34 solutions in the plight of the homeless.
11:23:35 The homeless coalition of Hillsborough County was
11:23:38 established in 1986 by mostly service providers and
11:23:44 government people.
11:23:45 In 2002, they undertook a 2-year study to define the
11:23:49 problem and create solutions, craft solutions, and
11:23:53 produce a report called places for people. The
11:23:57 estimated number of homeless at that time was 6400
11:24:01 individuals living on the streets, or without
11:24:04 permanent housing.

11:24:05 When the homeless coalition presented the results of
11:24:07 that study, and its recommendations to the Board of
11:24:10 County Commissioners, in late 2002, they were
11:24:14 unsuccessful in their request for a secure, recurring
11:24:19 fund to allow implementing the recommendations from
11:24:21 places for people.
11:24:24 Individual service providers continued their work, but
11:24:27 there is no comprehensive funding.
11:24:35 The number of homeless had grown to over 8,000.
11:24:38 In September 2004, Mayor Iorio called for the
11:24:42 summation of a citizens task force which included
11:24:46 leaders from all sector of the community including
11:24:49 social service agencies, business, law, government,
11:24:54 faith based organizations, law enforcement, and
11:24:56 private citizens.
11:24:58 They were charged with developing a set of
11:24:59 recommendations and financial options to expand both
11:25:02 housing and services for the homeless based in the
11:25:06 original findings of the 2002 census places for people
11:25:12 study.
11:25:13 Our citizens task force worked for a year, in 2005
11:25:18 entitled a report to the community.

11:25:20 Complete with a set of recommendations and suggested
11:25:22 sources of revenue that could be considered by elected
11:25:24 officials, in a comprehensive approach to solving a
11:25:28 community-wide problem of the homeless.
11:25:31 As you are aware, homelessness is not restricted to
11:25:34 the city.
11:25:34 It's a countywide problem beg are for countywide.
11:25:39 Solutions.
11:25:43 A census taken in January 2005 identified at that time
11:25:49 11,000 people living on the streets, in cars, or
11:25:53 without permanent housing.
11:25:54 Early in 2006, the homeless coalition presented the
11:25:57 results of the citizens task force study to the Board
11:26:00 of County Commissioners, and the board of Planning
11:26:02 Commissioners instructed the staff to work with the
11:26:06 coalition and bring back recommendations to their
11:26:08 board.
11:26:10 The homeless coalition presented them a request to the
11:26:13 Board of County Commissioners for $4 million to fund
11:26:16 an intake centers, the first step in tackling the
11:26:20 homeless problem in a comprehensive manner.
11:26:23 This request was turned down by the Board of County

11:26:24 Commissioners.
11:26:27 This brings us to today.
11:26:28 That was part of the final budget hearing.
11:26:31 It brings us to today, and our update to you on the
11:26:34 status of the program and the proposed solutions as
11:26:37 well.
11:26:37 Although unsuccessful this thus far in securing a
11:26:41 stable ongoing source of revenue we have not been idle
11:26:44 in the interim.
11:26:45 We have been working diligently to accomplish the
11:26:47 steps laid out by the task force.
11:26:49 We are putting together a community-wide group of
11:26:52 champions, community leaders who will help us raise
11:26:56 community awareness of the problem and help us secure
11:26:59 the needed funding.
11:27:01 We have strengthened the Board of Directors of the
11:27:03 homeless coalition, more reflective of the broader
11:27:07 community including business leadership.
11:27:09 We sought grants for developing a management
11:27:11 information system, to enhance cooperation among the
11:27:14 various service providers.
11:27:16 We are working on a public relations plan to take to

11:27:19 the greater community to enlist their help and
11:27:22 support.
11:27:23 And that's what we ask of you today.
11:27:26 Lend your help and support to us in our quest to build
11:27:29 a comprehensive assistance program, to deal with the
11:27:32 homelessness in our community.
11:27:36 Support us in our quest to gain secure, recurring
11:27:39 funding for these assistance programs.
11:27:42 Councilwoman Ferlita and Councilman White, we
11:27:44 especially need your help and support when you are
11:27:48 seated on the county commission.
11:27:49 For a countywide solution, to a countywide problem, it
11:27:52 will take countywide funding as well.
11:27:55 Broward County has done it.
11:27:56 Miami-Dade has done it.
11:27:57 And we believe we can do it, too.
11:28:00 Thank you for your attention.
11:28:02 We are distributing dink additional copies of your
11:28:04 task force report for a review.
11:28:07 We especially call your attention to the
11:28:09 recommendations on pages 22 and 23 which is what we
11:28:11 have been working on.

11:28:13 We won't rest until we accomplish these tasks for the
11:28:16 homelessness of our community have a way of living
11:28:20 protected, secure lives.
11:28:21 Thank you.
11:28:22 >>ROSE FERLITA: Ms. Burdick, thank you for your
11:28:26 information there.
11:28:29 I have a long history of a file in terms of homeless,
11:28:31 and I'm glad we finally got to discuss this.
11:28:34 I was the maker of the motion awhile back and it's
11:28:36 gotten continued.
11:28:37 I'm glad to see that you are here, that Ms. Davin is
11:28:41 here, on behalf of the administration, and you as
11:28:44 well.
11:28:45 But I think that there is some confusion about what
11:28:48 happened and what hasn't happened.
11:28:50 I just pulled a couple of things in a chronological
11:28:53 order.
11:28:53 Someone wrote to me in 04, understand the needs for
11:28:56 permits for businesses, et cetera, but to require a
11:28:59 permit to aid our fellowman is just adjusting, the
11:29:02 sweeping under the rug, breeds apathy among people.
11:29:10 I think this breeds the problem.

11:29:11 This is an example of the frustration.
11:29:14 You went to that, it's been brought to my attention,
11:29:16 it's okay to feed birds, ducks, squirrels, but if
11:29:21 someone feeds human beings they can be arrested.
11:29:23 That was back in 04-05.
11:29:26 The Tribune cited some comments from you and I and
11:29:30 Fran. You said it's an issue that really needs much
11:29:32 more awareness. Fran, it said you have to figure out
11:29:34 how you are going to pay for it to solve it, and
11:29:36 that's true.
11:29:36 And my comment as well was we all talk about it and
11:29:39 nobody wants to do anything about it.
11:29:40 And I don't think.
11:29:43 It's a nice thing for our city to lay up there in
11:29:46 terms of order and rank in the state.
11:29:47 I mean, we have huge homeless problem.
11:29:50 And we all know it.
11:29:51 That's no secret.
11:29:52 At the time I asked this, you know, it's not over till
11:29:54 it's over.
11:29:55 I had no idea if I was going to win that race or not.
11:29:58 I'm glad that I did and really understand what you're

11:30:00 saying.
11:30:01 It is a comprehensive problem countywide.
11:30:03 And anything I can do to again build that bridge and
11:30:06 work together with Rayme and you and the whole task
11:30:10 force, I will be happy to do.
11:30:11 The reason this came up and the reason I had asked for
11:30:13 some clarification, and some presentation, if you
11:30:17 would, from the administration, or representative
11:30:21 thereof as opposed to you or Rayme or Chief Castor,
11:30:24 was because I wasn't sure.
11:30:25 There was a gentleman who is a pastor in Temple
11:30:27 Terrace, he had wanted to have an audience with the
11:30:30 mayor.
11:30:30 I think instead he met with major Guildera and gave
11:30:36 some incite as to what he could do or couldn't do.
11:30:39 But if someone asked me even now after this
11:30:41 discussion, after all we have talked about, I am not
11:30:43 real sure, and maybe, Jane, this is something you can
11:30:46 answer or Ms. Davin can answer.
11:30:48 What is it that people are allowed to do in terms of
11:30:50 feeding the homeless in public parks?
11:30:53 It's just so frustrating to all of us.

11:30:56 Colleagues, I'm sure you have gone down Florida Avenue
11:30:59 in the evening and saw the homeless trying to find
11:31:02 shelter on the steps of sacred heart Catholic church.
11:31:05 That's such an embarrassment for our community.
11:31:08 So what is it that we can tell people that they can
11:31:10 and can't do, administration, from the standpoint of
11:31:14 feeding?
11:31:14 Are they allowed?
11:31:15 Do they need permits?
11:31:16 Will they get arrested?
11:31:17 Somebody tell me.
11:31:20 >>> No, that's not a police department, not a law
11:31:22 enforcement function, and we don't oversee the
11:31:26 feeding.
11:31:26 The only thing that we respond to is if we get any
11:31:29 calls, any complaints, and then if there are any
11:31:34 violations of the law, or trespassing issues, that's
11:31:37 when we get involved, and our officers don't attend
11:31:41 the feeding, and we obviously don't prohibit --
11:31:45 >>ROSE FERLITA: Unless there are certain hours that
11:31:46 the parks are closed, though.
11:31:49 Because it's a public park.

11:31:51 >>> There are no trespassing issues, and that is a
11:31:53 city-wide ordinance.
11:31:55 It's in place.
11:31:56 There is no -- no one is allowed in a city park after
11:31:59 dark.
11:32:03 >>ROSE FERLITA: And that's standard.
11:32:04 But during normal hours, and you can either confirm it
11:32:07 or contradict it, Ms. Davin, but it is okay for people
11:32:10 to go and feed the homeless until we do something else
11:32:13 that's better?
11:32:17 >>> Well, I think there was a particular individual
11:32:18 who had an issue with you Curtis Hixon park where they
11:32:21 were having a feeding.
11:32:22 And I think that there were other elements involved in
11:32:26 that particular one.
11:32:28 When he spoke with major Guildera and he moved that
11:32:33 feeding to another location.
11:32:34 But I don't know that there's anything other than
11:32:36 obvious issues of hygiene, and, you know, littering
11:32:41 and those types of things.
11:32:42 >>ROSE FERLITA: Oh, yeah, but that's standard for
11:32:44 anybody because nobody needs to do that.

11:32:45 And Jane, it just comes down to this.
11:32:48 An again things have changed.
11:32:49 I am going over there and I look forward to help from
11:32:51 that end.
11:32:52 These are letters that I think all my colleagues got
11:32:54 last month from several people.
11:32:57 I am writing concerning the recent changes to the
11:32:59 homeless feeding process.
11:33:01 I would request a timely clarification of this process
11:33:03 in order to allow to us move forward with the business
11:33:05 of helping the needy in our area. The need is great
11:33:07 and immediate for many.
11:33:09 And any delay in programs can have some serious and
11:33:11 lasting consequences.
11:33:14 That really prompted me to bring this up, because I
11:33:17 just need sod clarification.
11:33:19 >>> I understand that.
11:33:20 And there are a lot of issues that are involved with
11:33:24 the homeless.
11:33:25 And you know how the police department deals with that
11:33:27 on a daily basis.
11:33:29 And there are issues that we can't deal with, private

11:33:32 property at sacred heart, the individuals sleeping on
11:33:36 the steps there.
11:33:38 >> And chef castor, in all fairness to you, major
11:33:41 Guildera handled that problem with that particular
11:33:45 pastor very well, because he's quite the professional.
11:33:49 Ms. Davin, since you all are representative on that
11:33:52 task force, I believe, do you have any comments or any
11:33:54 solutions, anything that you want to add that would
11:33:57 help us go forward in the right direction?
11:34:00 >>> Fran Davin: Well, I served as the representative
11:34:03 to the mayor's office on the task force, yes.
11:34:05 And I got more of an education than I think I was
11:34:09 expecting.
11:34:10 We spent a year studying this problem.
11:34:14 It is not a simple problem.
11:34:15 It is a very complex problem.
11:34:17 And in the past report that Rayme will circulate,
11:34:22 there is a good deal of statistical information, as
11:34:25 well as social information, that gives you a pretty
11:34:30 good understanding when you finish reading it, how
11:34:33 complex it is.
11:34:35 Some of these people out on the streets are mentally

11:34:39 challenged.
11:34:40 Some of these people have extreme addiction problems.
11:34:44 Some of these people have come back from the military
11:34:48 and are not making a good transition back into
11:34:51 society.
11:34:53 They are also a challenge.
11:34:55 And how you bring them off the street, there are law
11:35:01 enforcement problems and there are first amendment
11:35:03 problems.
11:35:04 You cannot necessarily take a hard line on how we deal
11:35:08 with it.
11:35:09 I think one of the great misunderstandings is that
11:35:12 this is a problem of the of the City of Tampa.
11:35:16 It is not.
11:35:16 I can at a you to places under bridges, all over this
11:35:20 county, where there are pockets of homeless.
11:35:24 I can take you to colonies in the woods, off of
11:35:28 Fletcher, off of Fowler.
11:35:29 I can take you to Plant City.
11:35:31 I can take you down into the south county where people
11:35:36 who were working as migrants for one reason or another
11:35:39 lost that income.

11:35:40 They are living homeless.
11:35:42 One of the saddest things is families.
11:35:47 Children and single mothers living in a car.
11:35:50 These people are very hard to identify.
11:35:52 They are very hard to do outreach with.
11:35:54 They are very hard to help.
11:35:55 But we have, as you know, within the homeless
11:35:59 coalition, a number of agencies that offer different
11:36:02 kinds of services.
11:36:04 I know that what you hear about most as council
11:36:07 people, because the mayor gets the same letters, the
11:36:09 same gets the same e-mails.
11:36:11 What you hear most is about the feeding.
11:36:15 And, you know, that's understandable.
11:36:17 The easiest way for people who have compassion to
11:36:22 intervene in this problem once they understand it is
11:36:24 to come downtown or go to some public setting and give
11:36:29 people some food.
11:36:30 And while feeding is very important, it doesn't solve
11:36:34 the problem.
11:36:35 These people are hungry seven days a week, not one day
11:36:38 a week or two days a week.

11:36:39 These people are sleeping out in the cold seven nights
11:36:43 a week, not one or two nights a week.
11:36:45 So what it all dials un-- boils down to is so much
11:36:49 social problems ultimately boil down to.
11:36:51 And having the money, to have an intake shelter, to
11:36:54 have a diversionary program, to be able to refer those
11:36:58 who need health care, to a health center, to refer
11:37:04 people who have addiction problems, to that kind of a
11:37:08 program, and then to help through education,
11:37:11 retraining, or simply job assistance, those people who
11:37:16 really are only for want of an income homeless.
11:37:22 So it just isn't an easy problem will.
11:37:24 As far as what we are doing about it, the city has, in
11:37:28 the last three and a half years, given a tremendous
11:37:30 amount of kinds of support to all the people in the
11:37:37 coalition that are working so hard to meet this need,
11:37:41 without any of them individually having access.
11:37:47 And I think to finish and explanation to your
11:37:50 question, councilwoman Ferlita, Mrs. She can talk to
11:37:56 you about the legal side.
11:37:57 >>ROSE FERLITA: Before you leave the podium, Ms.
11:37:59 Davin, if you think that was the position I had when I

11:38:01 brought this up, then obviously you misconstrued what
11:38:04 I meant.
11:38:04 This is absolutely not something that is specific to
11:38:07 this city, although we have more homeless than we
11:38:09 would like to claim.
11:38:10 And I understand, this is a situation that is apparent
11:38:14 throughout the state.
11:38:15 But what will separate the city and this county, if
11:38:18 you would, with leadership here and leadership over
11:38:21 there, is the way this particular community finds ways
11:38:26 to finance short term and long-term residential
11:38:29 issues, to find ways to rehabilitate.
11:38:33 It's not about a handout.
11:38:34 But the particular resident.
11:38:37 That's the only thing they know, first off.
11:38:40 Let's give them some food because that helps them
11:38:42 right now.
11:38:42 So they have shorter term goals in trying to help the
11:38:46 homeless.
11:38:46 We as the leaders of this community, this county and
11:38:49 city, should find ways to resolve the longer term
11:38:51 issues.

11:38:52 I see some of this spilling over as a consultant for
11:38:58 acts, and I have been a consultant there for 30 years.
11:39:01 So some of the same issues.
11:39:04 All I wanted to do was not highlight the city having
11:39:07 homeless.
11:39:07 Many communities do.
11:39:08 But I am just hopeful that the more awareness we bring
11:39:11 up, the more likely we will be to lead the charge more
11:39:14 so than another community or another municipality or
11:39:16 another county, to be able to try to target it and do
11:39:19 better.
11:39:21 So that is my point.
11:39:22 >>> Everything you say is true.
11:39:23 And I think Christine highlighted the fact that
11:39:26 Broward County and Miami-Dade County, through a
11:39:29 coalition, not only of the service provider, but a
11:39:33 coalition of the government, has been able to properly
11:39:37 fund.
11:39:37 And that's why ware hoping that when you and
11:39:40 commissioner-elect white are over on the county
11:39:43 commission, we may be able to move this solution --
11:39:48 >>ROSE FERLITA: It has to be a collective passion, and

11:39:51 responsibility to do it.
11:39:53 So Ms. Davin, thank you for peering.
11:39:57 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
11:39:59 Ms. Ferlita, it sounds like a lot of questions you are
11:40:03 receiving and other council members are receiving
11:40:04 relate to what can be done and whether or not the
11:40:07 permit is required at this point.
11:40:10 There was at one point a policy discussion as to
11:40:12 creating a permitting process challenged by an
11:40:17 organization known as -- we as a department are
11:40:21 reviewing that, reviewing what can and cannot be done
11:40:24 as relates to permitting, feeding, and how you go
11:40:26 about that.
11:40:27 But at this point in time, there is no permit
11:40:29 required.
11:40:29 And as was said, they are only electing people if they
11:40:36 are violating other laws.
11:40:40 >>ROSE FERLITA: Ms. Cole, to end my part of the
11:40:43 discussion.
11:40:43 If you would, in the event that there is something
11:40:45 that changes or you need to look at this again and
11:40:48 make some decision, I would greatly appreciate it if

11:40:50 you would call me and we had a city-county discussion
11:40:53 what we collectively can do with the homeless.
11:40:57 I appreciate it, Julia.
11:40:59 Thank you for everything, by the way.
11:41:00 You have been very helpful.
11:41:09 >>SHAWN HARRISON: All of us who either reside now or
11:41:11 own businesses downtown know how serious a problem
11:41:14 this is for the downtown core.
11:41:16 And particularly what's happening now at sacred heart
11:41:20 with everyone sleeping out there.
11:41:21 Is there any short-term plans that you're aware of to
11:41:25 try to remedy that situation?
11:41:31 Because that is waiting to happen.
11:41:38 >>> It's my understanding with sacred heart, if
11:41:40 allowing this on meetings -- I'm meeting with father
11:41:44 Andrew next weak to find out how and if there would be
11:41:47 some other arrangements.
11:41:49 It's allowable -- there isn't another place to tell
11:41:58 these people to go.
11:42:01 They can get information.
11:42:02 But on an as-available basis.
11:42:07 And many choose not to go into a shelter but be where

11:42:12 they can be feeling socially and community-support
11:42:20 accepted.
11:42:20 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I often heard from the faith based
11:42:23 organizations that are in this business that -- if
11:42:29 people really want a place to get off of the street,
11:42:31 there is a place to go am and in large part, it's an
11:42:36 education problem.
11:42:37 But the other part is that many people don't want
11:42:45 that.
11:42:45 Many don't feel comfortable going into a shelter.
11:42:52 And they feel socially accepted and literally prefer
11:42:54 to live out on the street.
11:42:55 How do we deal with them?
11:42:57 The families, and the single mothers with children,
11:42:59 and living in cars, I think that's a hidden face of
11:43:04 this problem that a lot of people don't understand.
11:43:06 But it seems to me like that is a population that
11:43:10 really does have opportunities, whereas the folks that
11:43:14 are sleeping out at sacred heart church may not want
11:43:18 other opportunities, they just want to be there.
11:43:20 >>> There is a sector of the homeless population that
11:43:23 chooses to be outside.

11:43:25 It is not true that there is always a bed available if
11:43:28 you really want it.
11:43:29 We do not have enough facilities in our community for
11:43:33 someone who finds themselves unexpectedly on the
11:43:36 street.
11:43:37 They cannot be sure, and in a one can guarantee that
11:43:40 they will have a bed that night.
11:43:42 And so there's two issues there.
11:43:44 There is a population they will always choose to be
11:43:48 outside.
11:43:48 But there are programs that can be offered, that if
11:43:52 they can be trained, and if they can get a job, I
11:43:55 mean, I don't believe that anybody really wants to
11:43:57 live on the street.
11:43:57 They want to be housed and they want to be in a
11:44:00 different situation.
11:44:02 Being on the street is a lesser of many other evils
11:44:05 that they see.
11:44:06 If there are programs that can get them back to health
11:44:10 and back to work, and back to housed, I think there is
11:44:15 a much smaller population who would refuse that.
11:44:20 And that's part of what our recommendations were in

11:44:23 the first report.
11:44:24 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to ask a question.
11:44:26 Those who are in shelters, are you now giving them
11:44:28 educational training, how to bring themselves back
11:44:31 from off the street, and --
11:44:34 >>> I am not qualified to answer that, about what
11:44:36 various services are provided by our individual
11:44:38 service providers.
11:44:40 I am not actually a service provider.
11:44:43 Maybe Rayme could talk about some of their programs.
11:44:47 >>> Rayme Nuckles, CEO, homeless coalition.
11:44:54 All of the services range from education,
11:44:58 transportation, health care, mental care, a circle,
11:45:05 continuum of services.
11:45:06 We have many service providers in our community.
11:45:09 We do have 11,000 homeless people in our community.
11:45:12 We are the -- we have the sixth largest homeless
11:45:14 population in the country.
11:45:16 Over 6,000 beds below what we need to facilitate
11:45:21 11,000 people in our community.
11:45:24 That's who we are currently.
11:45:25 We have been working on our task force report

11:45:27 diligently.
11:45:31 The citizens brought forth the task force
11:45:33 recommendation.
11:45:33 And even this morning I was meeting, working with some
11:45:38 service providers, in particular grant application, to
11:45:43 add an additional 15 beds, which isn't a lot.
11:45:46 But that gives us a little bit further.
11:45:53 That's what we are doing at this particular time.
11:45:54 >>GWEN MILLER: How many do you have coming into the
11:45:59 homeless center and leave, get a job and take care of
11:46:02 themselves?
11:46:03 >>> I don't want to quote a percentage unfortunately,
11:46:05 because I don't have that in front of me.
11:46:07 But I know that it's over 50%.
11:46:18 The service provider that have services for
11:46:25 >>ROSE FERLITA: Rayme in, doing my homework on this,
11:46:29 don't know that I know, but you have been very
11:46:33 committed to getting any state funds, any state
11:46:37 dollars that we can have and also federal grants.
11:46:42 I just wanted to acknowledge that because you have
11:46:45 been very aggressive about that stuff and we need
11:46:47 every dollar we can get.

11:46:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:46:50 Continue to work hard, what you are already doing.
11:46:53 We appreciate what you are doing.
11:46:57 >>> I know council is pressed for time but I did want
11:47:00 to add one other statistics in response to your last
11:47:03 question to Mr. Nuckles, in comparing what we have
11:47:07 been able to achieve, not coming in the future but
11:47:12 what we have been able to achieve thus far, compared
11:47:14 to Miami-Dade and Broward.
11:47:16 They have found with their comprehensive program, and
11:47:20 as Rayme refers to it the continuum of care giving all
11:47:24 the services you need to make a person able to be
11:47:27 self-sufficient again, they have found in the 5.5
11:47:32 years they had a successful program going.
11:47:34 They have been able to reduce their homelessness by
11:47:36 65%.
11:47:37 Now the cost -- that's not people who fall back into
11:47:43 homelessness.
11:47:44 These not the people who keep replacing, the ones that
11:47:49 we have been able to bring in off the street.
11:47:50 But they have had a 65% success rate, because they
11:47:55 offer a comprehensive program.

11:47:57 So we feel encouraged that there's ways to get it
11:48:02 done.
11:48:02 It's just community effort.
11:48:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:48:07 I appreciate that.
11:48:08 We go back to --
11:48:12 >>> If you don't think you were finished with your
11:48:14 plaques this morning, Rayme does have a plaque to
11:48:16 offer to the City Council.
11:48:20 >>> Rayme: Madam Chair, if you could come down.
11:48:23 Every year this week is homeless and hunger awareness
11:48:27 week.
11:48:30 This is the first year we have held our meeting this
11:48:33 week.
11:48:33 Every year since I have been Dr.EO -- the CEO, took
11:48:40 the job in December 2002, been here, we started, and
11:48:44 the city has provided us a tremendous amount of
11:48:46 support to the coalition, and every year, we recognize
11:48:53 individual members for their support, and local
11:48:57 organizations as well.
11:48:58 And the city has been very instrumental in helping us
11:49:01 advance the issue in our community.

11:49:03 And we would like to present you with a plaque of our
11:49:06 appreciation.
11:49:10 >>GWEN MILLER: I know they are going to appreciate
11:49:11 this.
11:49:15 [ Applause ]
11:49:29 >>GWEN MILLER: We go to item number 17.
11:49:31 They would like to be continued for three weeks or
11:49:33 more.
11:49:36 What's a good date?
11:49:39 For item 17 to be continued.
11:49:47 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Move to continue to December 14.
11:49:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: There are people in the audience
11:49:56 that want to speak to this.
11:50:00 >>GWEN MILLER: We are going to go to item number 21.
11:50:04 Mr. Dingfelder, is your Boy Scout ready?
11:50:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I believe that Mr. Longo and his
11:50:21 supporters are here.
11:50:22 >> My name is Chris Longo.
11:50:24 I am a life scout in troop 225.
11:50:27 I am a senior at Plant High School.
11:50:30 What I propose to do is change the name of the spring
11:50:36 at Waterworks Park behind Stetson university.

11:50:40 I wanted to change the name, and there is a story
11:50:44 about Ulaly, and did council members get the packet?
11:50:54 >> We did.
11:50:55 >>> Great.
11:50:55 Have any of you looked through it at all?
11:50:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yep.
11:50:59 >>> Great.
11:51:03 It's pretty gory.
11:51:05 Back in the 16th century, it's really unfair what
11:51:10 they did to the Indians.
11:51:11 But we must begin the story with the Spanish
11:51:15 Conquistador in the 7th century.
11:51:18 And he landed in Tampa and he -- his -- he handed --
11:51:27 landed in Tampa and found a gold trinket and he
11:51:30 confronted the chief here, and asked and he didn't
11:51:37 have an answer for him.
11:51:39 So
11:51:49 In response to that he advocated there was gold in the
11:51:52 Tallahassee hills.
11:51:53 And so sent his ships back to Cuba and they returned
11:51:58 and he was nowhere to be found.
11:52:03 A ship was sent and there was a note on the beach.

11:52:08 They went on the beach.
11:52:09 And they were ambushed by a bunch of Indians.
11:52:13 Hebla was chief of the Indians that found them.
11:52:16 And Ortista is in the boat.
11:52:22 He thought that Juan Ortiz was the son who killed
11:52:27 husband mother and cut his nose and lips off so he was
11:52:31 a little angry.
11:52:34 So Juan Ortiz, after all the members of his boat were
11:52:38 killed, was special.
11:52:42 He decided that he was going to be roasted at the
11:52:46 stake, what we understand in our English language to
11:52:50 be barbecued.
11:52:51 When he was ready to be Tampa's finest barbecue, Ulaly
11:52:57 fell to his knees and started begging her father to
11:53:02 please spare this man, he is my age, he's too young,
11:53:06 he was only 17 at that time, about Ulaly's age.
11:53:11 So he decided to give him the most despised job in the
11:53:16 SINEQUAN society.
11:53:18 He gave him the job to guard the bed in the cemetery
11:53:24 and was what then sent off, and Ulaly decided at this
11:53:28 point it didn't really matter what she thought of her
11:53:34 opinion, he was going to kill him eventually.

11:53:36 So in the middle of the nature he crossed the
11:53:38 Hillsborough River, and met with her fiance, chief
11:53:41 Mucosco and let's them live there for many, many years
11:53:48 before he was used as a translator.
11:53:51 I would like to propose this.
11:53:54 Because Ulaly was the savior of the first American
11:53:58 resident in Florida, or early North America so to
11:54:03 speak.
11:54:04 It is arguably the real Pocahontas story considering
11:54:09 that John Smith hadn't set foot in Jamestown for 80
11:54:13 years and wasn't even born yet.
11:54:15 But John Smith read almost everything had to do with
11:54:20 Indians, including Juan Ortiz's story that he found
11:54:23 most remarkable.
11:54:25 Do you have any questions at this time?
11:54:26 >>GWEN MILLER: Any questions by council members?
11:54:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I did have a question.
11:54:30 And congratulations on your proposed Eagle Scout.
11:54:36 Why this particular spring?
11:54:39 Is there any connection?
11:54:43 >>> Yes.
11:54:45 The spring over the years in the past was the only

11:54:49 water source in Tampa Bay.
11:54:50 And this spring was particularly chosen because it
11:54:58 was -- since it was the life source of Tampa, Juan
11:55:04 Ortiz, and at the time -- the spring is now named
11:55:08 after a Judge McBee.
11:55:11 As many of you know, Judge McBee in the late 19th
11:55:15 century was an alcoholic judge who was asked to step
11:55:23 down from his position, to be impeached, but rather
11:55:30 resigned in order to reserve the disgrace of being the
11:55:36 first judge to be impeached.
11:55:37 In the story in the packet, there's many accounts of
11:55:40 him being, I guess, dead to the world, drunk on the
11:55:44 streets, and the towns people, I guess, there was one
11:55:47 time when he was lying on the street, and the towns
11:55:50 people decided to pour molasses and corn meal over
11:55:55 him, and at the time, there were hog that is roamed
11:55:59 freely around the Tampa area, and considered this to
11:56:03 be a treat.
11:56:04 See, Judge James P. become bee was lying face in the
11:56:09 gutter with molasses and corn meal, so somehow they
11:56:14 ripped off all his clothing.
11:56:15 When he awoken, he awoke not a happy camper, so to

11:56:21 speak.
11:56:21 So he chose to pick someone to, I guess, release his
11:56:27 anger, and he decided to pick the wrong person.
11:56:30 The man that he put a warrant out for happened to have
11:56:34 a double barrel 12 gauge shotgun with him, in the
11:56:38 courthouse, and pointed it straight at the judge.
11:56:41 Is that my time?
11:56:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have one other question.
11:56:45 Can I summons the honorable E.J. Saul-Sena to come up
11:56:51 for a second?
11:56:52 Are you supportive of this petition, Judge Saul-Sena?
11:56:59 And how about par judge McBee?
11:57:05 Are we okay with removing his name from that?
11:57:12 (off microphone)
11:57:18 Thank you, your Honor.
11:57:20 >>> In the packet I have 150, 200 signatures in
11:57:23 support of the project as well, along with the advisor
11:57:29 in the council.
11:57:36 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I lived in Tampa all my life and I
11:57:39 never knew that this was called McBee Spring.
11:57:43 When can you find out this was called McBee spring?
11:57:47 >>> Well, a little research.

11:57:48 There was a picture, the Burgett brothers picture, had
11:57:54 a trim on the bottom that said McBee spring, and it
11:58:00 kind of sounded -- I did more research and I found
11:58:05 that there was a court case back in the -- after McBee
11:58:10 died, but said that somebody was encroaching on the
11:58:15 spring.
11:58:16 And so they, I guess, sued them for encroachment on
11:58:20 the spring.
11:58:21 And this was the only written case of this McBee
11:58:24 family to the spring.
11:58:25 And it was passed on to the family, passed on down.
11:58:32 >> Are there any McBees left in Tampa?
11:58:34 >>> I searched the phone book, and there is one or
11:58:38 two, but I don't think he has any kids.
11:58:41 >> In a connection to the spring?
11:58:42 >>> I don't think so.
11:58:43 Because McBee was -- I mean, would you marry --
11:58:53 [ Laughter ]
11:58:55 Would you want to stay with that guy being drunk in
11:58:58 the middle of the street most of the time?
11:58:59 I don't think he married.
11:59:05 I have done my research and I haven't found anything

11:59:08 that said he had married or he had any children.
11:59:10 I am not sure if there are any McBees in the Tampa Bay
11:59:13 area.
11:59:15 >>MARY ALVAREZ: That makes it a lot easier for us to
11:59:18 say, okay.
11:59:20 I love the name Ulaly.
11:59:22 I think it's beautiful.
11:59:29 I would like to make a motion that we go ahead and
11:59:34 rename the spring to the Ulaly spring.
11:59:37 >> Second.
11:59:37 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
11:59:42 >> Thank you for all the research.
11:59:43 You should notable only be eagle scout.
11:59:48 [ Applause ]
11:59:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: As a matter of point of order.
11:59:52 Do we direct legal to come up with a resolution
11:59:54 accordingly?
12:00:01 >> We can go ahead and prepare that resolution.
12:00:04 >> Okay.
12:00:06 Send Mr. Longo a copy of that resolution for his file.
12:00:10 >>GWEN MILLER: I know it's 12:00.
12:00:12 Lunch time.

12:00:13 But we haven't done our audience portion.
12:00:16 Would you like to let people speak?
12:00:20 Maybe we should hear them so they don't have to come
12:00:22 back.
12:00:23 We are going to go to our audience portion.
12:00:25 We are going to see how many want to speak under
12:00:27 audience portion.
12:00:28 Raise your hand.
12:00:31 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Oh, gee.
12:00:34 >> Three minutes.
12:00:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: In deference of people who waited
12:00:46 all morning I would like to hear them, see if I get a
12:00:48 second.
12:00:51 >>GWEN MILLER: It dies for lack of second.
12:00:52 We are going to go into recess until 1:30.
12:00:54 (City Council recess)
12:00:55


Tampa City Council
Thursday, November 16, 2006
1:30 p.m.

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13:41:23 >> Tampa City Council is called back to order. Roll
13:41:26 call.
13:41:27 (Roll Call)
13:41:37 >> We need you. We're on item 18.
13:41:52 > Item 18 is the Z06-94, which is placed on the full
13:41:57 agenda pursuant to rule 4(C) of the council. Council,
13:42:04 there are four members here, a quorum, number 18. I
13:42:06 would recommend that you wait until the full council is
13:42:09 present. Maybe perhaps you would like to --
13:42:14 > Take public comment?
13:42:15 > Yeah.

13:42:16 > 19 is the same.
13:42:17 > And so is 20.
13:42:18 > Number 20 is the same.
13:42:20 > Why don't we --
13:42:21 > We already did 21.
13:42:22 > The next item would be the agenda public comment.
13:42:24 > Great. First, if anyone in the public would like to
13:42:28 ask for reconsideration? Now we'll go to our public
13:42:32 comments. Anyone in the public like to speak on any
13:42:35 item on the agenda that is not set for a public
13:42:37 hearing? Stand up.
13:42:42 > Come on. Line up.
13:42:44 > I just wanted to comment on the -- some of the issues
13:42:48 that council is discussing regarding particularly the
13:42:54 issue of the hearing master. And some of the other
13:42:59 zoning issues, the various review board changes, et
13:43:02 cetera, which we discussed at our last meeting and
13:43:07 didn't take any action on, but I just let them all
13:43:10 know, and one of the big concerns is the hearing master
13:43:13 issue. Years ago, when Tampa did have a hearing
13:43:17 master, I -- that was my first involvement here in this
13:43:23 council chambers, and it was a little scary. Because

13:43:26 it was on the consent agenda, and council, when I
13:43:30 brought it to their attention, none of -- no one on
13:43:33 that council even knew what I was talking about. The
13:43:37 city attorney had to look it up. So as you move
13:43:39 forward with all of those issues, I hope that there is
13:43:42 no speed in doing it, that we will have time to make
13:43:45 comments, and that you will be open to our concerns.
13:43:49 Thank you.
13:43:53 > Excuse me. Does Stan have a meeting in -- do you
13:44:03 have a meeting in January? Might it be possible to
13:44:06 have a discussion of this at your January meeting, and
13:44:09 perhaps someone from the city attorney's office
13:44:12 could --
13:44:12 > We definitely will, but from what I was hearing this
13:44:15 morning, you wanted something in hand to move over to
13:44:19 the planning commission for that January round of
13:44:23 zoning, chapter 27 reviews. So that was the concern I
13:44:28 had, that it is moving along very quickly, and that we
13:44:32 won't have time to really discuss it and even know
13:44:36 everything that's being proposed. So I do have a
13:44:39 concern about that.
13:44:41 > I can only speak for myself, but I think I heard all

13:44:45 my colleagues say we are not -- the fact that we asked
13:44:49 legal to write it up is not at all an endorsement.
13:44:52 It's written up so we can discuss it. I don't think
13:44:54 any of us feel a huge urge to move quickly on this, and
13:44:57 we certainly want to hear what the neighborhoods have
13:45:01 to say about it because it will impact you all's -- you
13:45:04 know, very directly.
13:45:05 > I guess my concern is what exactly then will happen
13:45:08 if it has to go over in January? That's where I'm lost
13:45:12 to exactly what will happen in January.
13:45:18 > Thank you.
13:45:19 > Could we hear from --
13:45:21 > Hear from who?
13:45:22 > Mr. Shelby.
13:45:25 > MARTIN SHELBY: Council, my understanding on the
13:45:27 issue was that as long as the changes were given to
13:45:32 Miss Coyle by the 15th of January, there was no time
13:45:36 constraint with how long council could discuss it. It
13:45:38 could be discussed after the meeting and brought back.
13:45:41 That would be the first opportunity at least have
13:45:44 something to council to be to at least get some sort of
13:45:47 direction on, but not necessarily to act on it on

13:45:49 forwarding it to the planning commission until it fully
13:45:52 feels comfortable with doing that. Miss Coyle, do you
13:45:55 want to add anything?
13:45:57 > That is correct. I've simply taken the amendments by
13:46:00 the 15th, and then I schedule a workshop with council
13:46:04 to go over those items. I also plan on disseminating
13:46:07 all of the information that I receive out to the
13:46:10 general public.
13:46:10 > Thank you.
13:46:11 > Thank you. Next.
13:46:14 > Good afternoon. My name is Lena Young Green, and
13:46:18 today I'd like to speak with council about item number
13:46:22 22, which is the dedication of the water works building
13:46:31 facility. I have some information from our community
13:46:34 and from the CRA advisory board that I'd like to hand
13:46:39 to you.
13:46:39 > Sure.
13:46:52 > Thank you for this opportunity to share with you
13:46:54 what's been going on in the community relating to the
13:47:00 heights project and specifically to the water works
13:47:03 building, the water works park. I was a little bit
13:47:06 surprised this morning when you passed a resolution to

13:47:11 rename the spring, because we see all of this as a part
13:47:13 of a comprehensive project that we are also looking at
13:47:18 the history of that area, and would probably have
13:47:23 brought something to you about naming some parts within
13:47:26 that CRA project that addressed some of the history
13:47:29 we've been working with University of South Florida and
13:47:33 had students come out to do some history, gathering of
13:47:37 history to be included along with the river walk, and
13:47:41 there's quite a bit of old history that we are
13:47:45 learning -- well, history -- history that we are
13:47:48 learning that includes beyond the Indian population,
13:47:52 the African-American, Hispanics, and that kind of jump
13:47:56 the gun on us and I was quite surprised to have the
13:47:59 resolution passed this morning. I don't know how
13:48:03 that's handled, but I was pretty surprised. On
13:48:08 dedication of this -- the water works park, we know
13:48:10 that many people are hesitant about having anything
13:48:14 that's public be undedicated, therefore we took
13:48:21 extensive length of time in going through, talking with
13:48:23 the community, sharing information, on the list that I
13:48:28 handed you, we had a number of meetings that invited
13:48:32 the communities and the surrounding communities to come

13:48:36 out and talk with us. We got comments from different
13:48:42 organizations, different individuals. We set up the
13:48:45 meetings in a way where people could have one on one
13:48:48 discussion during that process of talking about the
13:48:53 dedication of the building. We sent out almost 1900
13:48:57 notices to residents of the area advertising in the
13:49:01 newspapers, and the rest of the items are listed there.
13:49:06 The presentation to the civic association, the
13:49:10 presentations just on the CRA advisory board, and
13:49:13 invited all those who were interested to give us their
13:49:18 responses. In the second part, you see some of the
13:49:21 comments that were received during that process. We
13:49:26 then, the CRA board, advisory board, met and identified
13:49:32 some areas that if on dedication were considered that
13:49:37 those would be some of the uses of that property. One
13:49:42 of the concerns was that that property should have some
13:49:45 access to public --
13:49:49 > Finish your statement.
13:49:50 > Thank you. Could have some access to the public, for
13:49:55 the public as it's ongoing.
13:49:56 > One issue that we're still working through is having
13:50:01 a place for the community to meet within that whole CRA

13:50:06 area, and in the consideration of the on dedication of
13:50:12 the public property and opportunity to have a space
13:50:15 that's dedicated for the public use civic association
13:50:19 use. We thought that would be appropriate. We are
13:50:21 still going through that discussion, and think that
13:50:23 that kind of requirement could be added into the land
13:50:29 sale or land lease that happens with this building down
13:50:32 the line eventually. So based on that, I would like to
13:50:36 let you know that we have recommended that the
13:50:40 building -- that the water works park be undedicated.
13:50:45 > Okay. Thank you. Next.
13:50:51 > Good afternoon. I'm Mara Barios. I live at 3006
13:50:58 Main Street West, Tampa, Florida. I'm the co-chair of
13:51:01 the west Tampa council on art culture and history, and
13:51:05 I'm also the organizer of the save our culture
13:51:07 committee, an ad hoc committee that was formed recently
13:51:10 in the west Tampa community in response to newspaper
13:51:13 articles and stories we've read about an external group
13:51:19 coming in to buy what we consider our -- our Centro
13:51:24 Espanol of the west Tampa. I don't need to remind you,
13:51:26 but I will, that we -- our council is the group that
13:51:32 worked with the planning commission at the request of

13:51:37 the mayor to look at ways to revitalize with Tampa.
13:51:41 And one of the key issues that we addressed was the
13:51:44 preservation and history and culture and art community
13:51:46 in west Tampa as a very important asset. So we've had
13:51:52 the Centro Espanol building on our agenda as a
13:51:56 possibility for an arts and culture center for quite
13:51:59 some time, just kind of waiting to see what would
13:52:01 happen. Of course, we expected that the city would
13:52:04 intervene on behalf of the west Tampa community to
13:52:11 bring this building back to the community to continue
13:52:15 the mission of the revitalization project. We're
13:52:19 really sorry to see what happened with the urban
13:52:22 league. We know that that was -- that the building
13:52:24 itself is -- is such a treasure, and is really a kind
13:52:28 of a -- a gold mine and requires a lot of money, and
13:52:33 that institution, which had a wonderful track record of
13:52:36 84 years, unfortunately dissolved as a result of this,
13:52:42 and now you're going to be asked, and I believe that
13:52:45 your city staff will recommend to you, that you
13:52:49 transfer the debt to a new institute, which was
13:52:58 actually formed in August of 2006 with no track record.
13:53:03 Now, compare the urban league's 84-year track record

13:53:08 and an institute which is a real mystery to us, we --
13:53:12 nobody in west Tampa knows this group or really
13:53:14 understands what their intentions are, and no other
13:53:18 groups have been allowed to have conversations about
13:53:22 other options for this historic treasure. I mean, it's
13:53:26 a national historic treasure. It's important to the
13:53:30 whole country. So I'm hoping to alert all of you and
13:53:33 the city staff to treat this with the care and
13:53:38 consideration and carefulness that it deserves. We in
13:53:43 west Tampa have very few historic buildings left. I've
13:53:48 mentioned that to you before. And that's why we really
13:53:51 want to protect this building. We want the community
13:53:54 to own it in partnership with others, and we are
13:53:58 committed to its continuation, restoration, we are
13:54:03 committed to sharing the space with community
13:54:05 organizations, and schools. We've had a number of
13:54:08 letters sent to the mayors, and I have copies for you.
13:54:11 These include letters from University of South Florida,
13:54:14 the dean of the college of fine arts, the chair of the
13:54:18 departments. They would love to come in to the west
13:54:21 Tampa community and help us revitalize our community
13:54:25 and make it an arts and culture center for all of

13:54:29 Tampa. That's our goal. That's our proposal. We
13:54:33 would love to have a chance to present the west Tampa
13:54:39 community's vision for the Centro Espanol of west Tampa
13:54:43 and ask you to please make that possible. Thank you.
13:54:45 > Thank you. Next.
13:54:51 > Good afternoon, council, my name is Fred CRONE,
13:54:54 co-chair of the arts of the west Tampa council on arts,
13:54:57 culture and history. I'm going to make a brief
13:55:00 statement with regard to policy issues. While it has
13:55:03 been communicated to us in west Tampa that the city is
13:55:07 extremely limited in what it can do with regard to the
13:55:10 Centro Espanol, the city of Tampa and its leadership
13:55:14 has a responsibility to do whatever and everything
13:55:16 possible in order to protect the Centro Espanol as an
13:55:20 historic and cultural symbol and to have it return back
13:55:24 into the hands of the community where its intended
13:55:27 function can be realized. This is an issue of
13:55:30 significance, and what is lost by the comodification of
13:55:34 our cultural and historical assets. It is also an
13:55:38 issue of access. Access not only to the use of the
13:55:41 Centro Espanol, but also access to the history of west
13:55:45 Tampa, the building significantly symbolizes. For way

13:55:49 too long, policies and procedures of the city and
13:55:51 county have disparately impacted West Tampa and have
13:55:57 marginalized its people. Part of the impact of
13:56:01 marginalization is the loss of one's past. It becomes
13:56:05 lost and later manufactured by others who have never
13:56:08 been connected to that past. This is a problem with
13:56:10 the production of history. Further, part of the
13:56:14 marginalization process is the removal of significant
13:56:17 cultural and historical symbols such as the Centro
13:56:20 Espanol, which links the present with the past and
13:56:23 propels us into the future. Comodification of
13:56:26 significant cultural and historical assets to
13:56:30 marginalize local people, causing a loss in hope and a
13:56:33 loss in identity. Issues of marginalization,
13:56:38 especially with regard to cultural and historical
13:56:40 assets creates cycles of poverty, cycles of continued
13:56:44 problems. The city seemingly in place policy of
13:56:49 selling off city assets and polluting those dealing
13:56:53 with cultural and historical property has marginalized
13:56:56 many groups in the Tampa Bay area. Marginalization
13:57:02 causes problems which extend well beyond all our years,
13:57:04 well into the distant future. Help stop

13:57:08 marginalization in any way possible. And help West
13:57:09 Tampa in saving our Centro Espanol. Thank you, and I
13:57:15 would also like to say congratulations to Rose Ferlita,
13:57:20 who I've always loved and supported.
13:57:26 > Thank you. Next.
13:57:33 > Good afternoon. My name is James Leoni. My second
13:57:39 name is known as a West Tampa dinosaur. I live on
13:57:44 North Howard Avenue, where I've lived all my life, and
13:57:48 have great memories of the Centro Espanol building.
13:57:52 > You and I share that. You and I share that dinosaur
13:57:56 deal.
13:57:56 > Okay, Mary. We're one of the fewer dinosaurs left
13:58:00 there, right?
13:58:01 > As a matter of fact, I'm older than you are.
13:58:03 > Well, we won't disclose the age.
13:58:05 > Okay. Let's get going, you know?
13:58:08 > I want to start with a positive note on the walls
13:58:12 without church -- walls without --
13:58:16 > Church without walls.
13:58:18 > Walls without --
13:58:19 > Church without walls.
13:58:20 > Church without walls institute that is making the --

13:58:25 you know, trying to have this. That would be a great
13:58:29 ministry for them, I'm sure, to reach out to the kids
13:58:33 in the area, the different programs that they want to
13:58:37 offer. I think that's a great thing that they're
13:58:40 doing. But I think there would be a better location
13:58:46 for them besides the Centro Espanol building. I think
13:58:50 they should find a better venue for the ministry that
13:58:53 they want to accomplish. This should become a positive
13:59:00 public place for all, not only of West Tampa, but all
13:59:04 of Tampa. I'm a retired school teacher. I taught
13:59:08 music for 38 years, and I can just see schools coming
13:59:11 there and having their programs, concerts, dance
13:59:16 recitals, music concerts and so forth, plays at that
13:59:21 beautiful theater if it could be restored. The dance
13:59:26 hall up there, the ballroom, could be used by different
13:59:30 cultural and civic groups throughout the Tampa area,
13:59:34 for parties, dances, receptions and so forth, and part
13:59:41 of it could possibly be leased out as office spaces for
13:59:45 different organizations. But anyway, this is a great
13:59:48 treasure of our whole city, and we need to preserve it
13:59:53 for a public use. As I said, I have nothing against
13:59:59 what the walls -- sorry --

14:00:03 > Church without walls.
14:00:04 > Church without walls, right? Without walls church
14:00:09 international. That's it. It's without walls church
14:00:12 international. Without walls international church.
14:00:17 Thank you. And so, as I said, I think they need to
14:00:21 find another place, a better location for their great
14:00:25 ministry that they're doing, but not there. Okay.
14:00:28 Thank you very much.
14:00:29 > Thank you. Next.
14:00:33 > My name is Marissa, and I'm on the cultural committee
14:00:38 for West Tampa. This morning, I heard a lot going on
14:00:41 here, but there were two phrases that stuck in my mind,
14:00:44 and I wrote them down, and that is the responsibility
14:00:46 to represent the people. I heard that this morning. I
14:00:50 also heard to make it a practice to speak to the people
14:00:54 before making a decision. And I think that's really
14:00:57 important. A city and city administration is here to
14:01:01 represent the people, and we are the people. I think
14:01:04 it's also very important to remember the history, the
14:01:08 history of the Centro Espanol, the people who put it
14:01:12 together, great amount of people that worked together
14:01:15 to put this together, under a lot of sacrifice put that

14:01:18 building together. I think we need to respect their
14:01:21 history and the integrity of the building and the
14:01:24 spirit that it was built. As we just heard from
14:01:28 someone who classified himself as a West Tampa
14:01:31 dinosaur, well this West Tampa dinosaur, a few months
14:01:35 ago when we were at a meeting, took myself and my
14:01:37 husband through a tour of that building. Unfortunately
14:01:42 that day he was telling us about his memories, when he
14:01:46 went for dances and public dates and all these
14:01:48 beautiful things he was telling us and the theaters and
14:01:52 so forth, but we couldn't get in the theater. The
14:01:55 theater was locked. So his generation just missed a
14:01:57 good opportunity to my generation to pass something on,
14:02:00 and now I did not have the pleasure of receiving that
14:02:04 treasure from him and I can't pass it on. It was
14:02:07 locked that day. There were three people there. We
14:02:09 were supposed to make an appointment to go see the
14:02:12 theater. We missed an opportunity. But if this is
14:02:15 not -- we will miss many more opportunities for many
14:02:19 other people and other generations that need to learn
14:02:21 about the building and why it's there and its future
14:02:25 use, particularly its history. Something really

14:02:30 simple, why does the city not buy back the building?
14:02:35 Creative arts has been looking for a building, Virginia
14:02:39 rivers arts for all has been looking for a building.
14:02:41 West Tampa needs a building for arts and culture. It
14:02:45 just seems so simple. And there's got to be a way to
14:02:49 do that. I'm sorry that the urban league is not
14:02:53 continuing. It's been a great organization, but I'm
14:02:55 sure when you all help the city, the county helps those
14:02:59 organizations buy this building some time ago, its
14:03:05 intent wasn't for it to deliver it to the hands of
14:03:07 somebody else, but for public use. So please keep that
14:03:10 in mind. Thank you.
14:03:10 > Thank you. Next.
14:03:13 > Hi. How you doing today? Item 19 --
14:03:17 > Put your name on the record.
14:03:18 > Oh, Jim Mosebonart. I sent everyone some E-mails
14:03:26 yesterday and I just kind of wanted to go through those
14:03:29 again. I just want to say --
14:03:31 > Excuse me.
14:03:32 > I just want to see what it is. No. It's closed.
14:03:35 You can't talk --
14:03:36 > You can't talk to that?

14:03:37 > No.
14:03:40 > All right. Thank you.
14:03:41 > All right. Next.
14:03:42 > Good afternoon, esteemed council folk. I hope you
14:03:45 can listen very quickly. I have so much I'd like to
14:03:48 tell you in 180 seconds. Thank you for this privilege
14:03:51 of having a forum where citizens and elected officials
14:03:54 interact in order to address the needs, desires and
14:03:57 concerns of the community.
14:03:58 > Tell us who you are.
14:03:59 > I don't take this for granted.
14:04:01 > Put your name on the record.
14:04:02 > Kim Rivers, 6909 North River Boulevard. And I am
14:04:09 here to respectfully request that the church without
14:04:14 walls, which if it diplomat need walls, we wouldn't be
14:04:17 here today, but if this church deal were to fall
14:04:19 through, it is my desire, my hope, my dream that the
14:04:23 city stands at the ready with plan B to assume this
14:04:26 property for generations to come, and the generations
14:04:31 still here. It is a national historic landmark
14:04:35 declared in the '70s. It was built in 1912. It has
14:04:38 not only national import, but international import as

14:04:43 QUESTA was one of the mayors of West Tampa which was
14:04:48 dissolved as a city in 1925. He was a royal purveyor
14:04:50 of cigars to the king of Spain. Hence it was called
14:05:01 Centro Espanol of West Tampa. This is my mommy. Some
14:05:04 of you knew her well. Some of you barely knew her.
14:05:07 But most of you were kind enough to give her this
14:05:11 commendation two days before she died. It was a very
14:05:15 big day for her, and it meant a lot. The way you
14:05:18 described her is for nearly 40 years, you have
14:05:23 diligently worked to provide the children and families
14:05:24 of Tampa and Hillsborough County with quality positive
14:05:27 valued programs to enrich their lives. You've -- the
14:05:32 Halloween fun fest, the international festivals and the
14:05:35 national story telling festival have given thousands of
14:05:40 families many hours of quality time together, et
14:05:42 cetera, et cetera, for your tireless efforts to raise
14:05:46 the quality of life through the arts for several
14:05:49 generations, the City of Tampa commends you. I can't
14:05:53 tell you how much it meant to her. I can't tell you
14:05:56 how much peace it gave her to go home and be able to
14:05:59 die. What gave her further peace before she died was
14:06:04 when Miss Linda Saul-Sena said to Wayne Pappy, who was

14:06:09 at that time in charge of recreation, Mr. Pappy, before
14:06:13 you leave I think the thing that Virginia wants to hear
14:06:15 most, and this was very true, Miss Ferlita and Miss
14:06:20 Saul-Sena, is when there might be a ground breaking.
14:06:23 This was her goal from 1997 until the minute that she
14:06:26 died. To which Mr. Pappy replied, after thunderous
14:06:34 applause, you don't mind putting me on the spot, do
14:06:37 you? We're working with the mayor right now on some
14:06:39 issues that we have to solve before we do that, but
14:06:42 there's going to be some announcements very shortly on
14:06:44 that. If I could just put it in those terms. This
14:06:49 gave my mother the peace she needed to die. And I
14:06:53 respect you all for doing this for her, and I ask not
14:06:56 just for her, but for the children of Tampa, for the
14:07:00 at-risk families, for the citizens of all of Tampa, as
14:07:04 well as the West Tampa community, that we restore the
14:07:08 Centro Espanol, should the church without walls not go
14:07:11 through, to its original intent, that of being a focal
14:07:16 point for the community. Many blessings. I thank you
14:07:20 for your time.
14:07:21 > Kim?
14:07:22 > Ma'am?

14:07:23 > I have been working for almost four years, as you
14:07:25 well know. I attended some of your meetings. I have
14:07:28 been working very diligently with this administration
14:07:31 to find a place for your -- they promised me that by
14:07:35 the time I get through at march 31st that they would
14:07:38 have a place, and I'm going to -- I'm trying to hold
14:07:41 them to that. It's not an easy thing, as you all know.
14:07:46 You keep on hoping, as I will.
14:07:49 > Yes, ma'am. Blessings and I thank you so much for
14:07:55 consideration for my mother and for children at risk
14:07:57 all over our city who can benefit from continued
14:07:59 programming. Thank you.
14:08:01 > Thank you. Next.
14:08:03 > Elizabeth Johnson, 1819 Richardson Place, and I just
14:08:08 want to make sure that I understand, because there may
14:08:11 be something I don't understand. Agenda public
14:08:15 comments, three minutes per person to speak on any item
14:08:19 other than the public hearing items, so we have a lot
14:08:23 of people here that wanted to speak on 19, which I
14:08:26 understand is not a public hearing, and I'm kind of
14:08:29 confused because I know sometimes during these times,
14:08:33 for example TPI was able to speak during these times,

14:08:36 and I don't want them to forego their time to speak
14:08:41 if -- if this is their time, but I respect you, Miss
14:08:45 Miller, and whatever you say goes.
14:08:49 > Okay. The reason 19 cannot speak -- it is a public
14:08:52 hearing and it has been closed and all we need to do is
14:08:56 vote on it so that's the reason why you can't speak on
14:08:58 it. It's not open to -- that's the only reason why.
14:09:01 We have had the public hearing on it, and we did a
14:09:04 reading on it and it did not pass. We got to come back
14:09:07 for the second reading and all we got to do now is vote
14:09:10 on that item, and that's it.
14:09:12 > And I guess this is my question for Marty.
14:09:15 > Unless we -- unless we waive -- unless we move to
14:09:19 waive the rule, correct, Mr. Shelby?
14:09:24 > MARTIN SHELBY: And reopen the public hearing, move
14:09:27 to reopen the public hearing.
14:09:28 > So when we get to that we could do that.
14:09:31 > Yes. At the council's discretion.
14:09:34 > It's an interesting sort of twist, because on the one
14:09:37 hand, the way it is right this second is we have a
14:09:41 public hearing that's closed; therefore, you know --
14:09:46 and now we're telling people to say speak on anything

14:09:50 that's not a public hearing. So Marty, I think you
14:09:52 need to opine, is item 19 up for discussion as an item
14:09:58 that's not a public hearing, you know, I mean, it's
14:10:02 just a weird situation. I think it's a legitimate
14:10:04 question.
14:10:05 > It's a legitimate question. If anybody wishes to
14:10:08 speak to an item that -- a public hearing that is
14:10:11 closed, my opinion would be that if it's a substantive
14:10:14 issue, and it's outside the public hearing, then it's
14:10:19 inappropriate and out of order.
14:10:20 > Because it's additional testimony?
14:10:22 > That's exactly right. So if they wish to speak to
14:10:24 something procedural, and they don't think they'll have
14:10:29 an opportunity to do that, and again, that's council's
14:10:32 purview if somebody has a procedural objection to allow
14:10:34 them to put that objection on the record, but with
14:10:36 regard to having a public hearing closed, it is very --
14:10:39 it is a very awkward position when a council does have
14:10:42 a public hearing that's closed, and for whatever reason
14:10:45 makes the decision, which is within its discretion to
14:10:50 reopen the public hearing. They can choose to do that.
14:10:53 There is no guarantee, and I guess one could argue that

14:10:56 creates uncertainty with people as to whether they'll
14:10:58 have that ability, whether council will grant that
14:11:00 right. Ideally, unless there's a strong procedural
14:11:05 issue that has -- that warrants reopening a public
14:11:08 hearing, I would advise against it on something like
14:11:12 this coming. And the only time that we've done that in
14:11:14 the past is if council's felt the need, for whatever
14:11:18 reason, to take additional testimony, based on whatever
14:11:21 proffer has been made. So to answer the question, it
14:11:24 would be inappropriate to take any factual items
14:11:28 relating 18, 19 or 20 during agenda public comment at
14:11:32 this time.
14:11:32 > Okay. Thank you.
14:11:34 > Well, as Marty knows, I do have a purely procedural
14:11:38 point, and I'm -- I would be thrilled to be able to
14:11:42 make that purely -- in fact, he and I spoke about it
14:11:45 for half an hour yesterday and he was very courteous to
14:11:49 talk to me so if I could go ahead and do that purely
14:11:52 procedural point I'd like to go ahead and do that or I
14:11:55 can wait until 19.
14:11:56 > It would be my -- I'm sorry?
14:11:59 > I would say she couldn't do it on 19 either because

14:12:01 we haven't decided.
14:12:03 > My suggestion would be, as long as she doesn't talk
14:12:05 to the merits, but she wishes to make procedural
14:12:08 objection in order to preserve her record it wouldn't
14:12:10 be inappropriate to do that. I would suggest that
14:12:13 council take a proffer of whatever objection she wishes
14:12:16 to put on the record.
14:12:17 > Now or --
14:12:18 > No. When you get to 19.
14:12:19 > Okay.
14:12:20 > Thank you.
14:12:21 > Okay. Thank you. Next.
14:12:29 > I know you're not here -- you come up here taking
14:12:34 away my thunder.
14:12:35 > Miss Miller, I couldn't make it.
14:12:38 > Go ahead.
14:12:39 > My name is MOSES. I resign at 2902 -- three nights a
14:12:45 week, and I just thank God for his grace and his Mercy.
14:12:49 I ain't supposed to be standing here, but God's grace
14:12:52 and Mercy brought me here this morning, and I really
14:12:56 wanted to be here this morning. Miss Rose Ferlita and
14:13:05 Miss White. You know, this city council here is the

14:13:09 best city council they ever had, and educated city
14:13:12 council, and I just hate to see you all go, but I want
14:13:15 to say congratulations to you, Mrs. White, and Miss
14:13:22 Rose Ferlita. Miss White, you made a believer out of
14:13:26 me. You really made a believer out of me, man. I'm
14:13:29 really proud of you and voted for you and I want to say
14:13:31 something about this election. This election right
14:13:33 here was the best election we ever had, but Miss white,
14:13:43 you the second black politician that ever sat in this
14:13:45 seat that had deep pockets. I love a politician that
14:13:50 got deep pockets. Man, I just found out about the man
14:14:04 had deep pockets. But congratulations, though. And
14:14:11 Miss rose Ferlita --
14:14:12 > Oh, it's my turn, I know it.
14:14:17 > I -- I told people if you a poor person and you need
14:14:23 help, you can go to -- if I get in trouble with the
14:14:28 city, I'm coming over there where you at. But you
14:14:32 helped me three times, and I mean I was completely
14:14:34 stranded, and when I looked at the television this
14:14:37 morning and seen where you represent the homeless, and
14:14:41 that there stole my heart. I mean, that there stole my
14:14:45 heart. You know, I represent poor people, you know,

14:14:51 but earlier this morning, they made something about
14:14:54 young women and children sleeping in cars. I live out
14:14:58 there in the hood where these people at. I see that.
14:15:01 Every time the weather man said they got a freezing
14:15:03 cold night, I just pray all day and all night, what
14:15:06 those people going to do, what they going to do? Down
14:15:09 by the railroad track wrapped up in paper. I mean, I
14:15:12 hate to see a cold night happen, but when I see that
14:15:16 you was head up on that, I just said maybe something
14:15:19 going to happen. And I seen something from the mailbox
14:15:22 this morning what she had said, and I was amazed that
14:15:26 they had that in the mailboxes, you know, I was amazed
14:15:29 at that, you know, but I want to say, though, that --
14:15:34 and it's something you had a while ago, I'm speaking
14:15:38 about the homeless now, about that deal in -- about the
14:15:42 church without walls, pastor Paula white, they do great
14:15:47 ministry with the poor, great ministry. You know, a
14:15:53 lot of people around town don't like women preachers.
14:15:57 Me, that lady made a believer out of me. One white
14:16:01 man -- I met a white man one time in the street, you
14:16:04 know, and he was talking about something and he was
14:16:06 talking about saying something about the church without

14:16:09 walls and he said one day that he was hungry and they
14:16:14 saved him a plate of food.
14:16:16 > Thank you.
14:16:17 > You're giving us so many compliments, I think the
14:16:20 chairman ought to give you another six minutes.
14:16:29 > I wanted to comment about item number 10. I'm very
14:16:33 concerned, and I didn't understand there was some
14:16:36 confusion whether they received a permit or not, but I
14:16:39 would just like to make the comment that when we
14:16:43 establish those overlay districts, we worked very hard
14:16:47 on the Howard overlay district. It seems to me that we
14:16:50 work very hard to establish those, but then where's the
14:16:53 enforcement and the approval and what happens after
14:16:55 those are in place. And you know it's my understanding
14:16:59 that, I believe Mr. Sayers is the person who's supposed
14:17:04 to look at this when something happened in the South
14:17:06 Howard overlay district, but I don't really see that
14:17:10 happening on a consistent basis, so it's part of you
14:17:12 all's recommendation to have a transportation report
14:17:14 back to you on this issue. If we could find out did
14:17:17 they go through the South Howard overlay district
14:17:21 process because it's very clear that the reason we did

14:17:23 that was to encourage pedestrian friendly access on
14:17:27 Howard, and that was one of the main reasons for doing
14:17:29 it. So whether they got a permit or what, they aren't
14:17:32 meeting the overlay guidelines, so they need to fix the
14:17:35 problem, and I just at this point don't know how you
14:17:38 enforce fixing a problem that is in violation of the
14:17:40 guidelines, and we need to look at setting up a
14:17:42 procedure if we're going to keep putting in overlay
14:17:45 districts, or if there's no point wasting our time
14:17:47 doing it. Thank you very much.
14:17:48 > I beg you and Vicki and the rest of the leadership in
14:17:52 your community to make sure you follow through with
14:17:54 that, either we gave the permit inappropriately, and if
14:17:57 we didn't and they did it without a permit, either one
14:17:59 of those things need to be addressed. So I hope you
14:18:03 continue to pursue that. Thanks.
14:18:07 > Good afternoon, Madam chair, members of the council,
14:18:13 I'm Graham Caruthers. I'm here to speak on agenda item
14:18:18 number three, which is a resolution to sign a purchase
14:18:22 sale agreement for a 1.43 acre parcel of property
14:18:27 within the City of Tampa. This matter was delayed
14:18:34 earlier today because it can't be voted on until item

14:18:37 numbers 64 and 66 have been voted on. The only point
14:18:40 I'd like to make is that representations have been made
14:18:43 to you on the record, and related proceedings by the
14:18:50 buyer's representatives to the effect that the buyer
14:18:52 will, and is required to, at its own expense, type and
14:18:57 fill the existing stormwater drainage ditch located at
14:19:02 that property. I reviewed the city real estate
14:19:05 department's file on this matter as recently as about
14:19:09 four o'clock yesterday afternoon. The contract has not
14:19:11 been amended in any respect, and there is no obligation
14:19:14 anywhere in those documents which require the buyer to
14:19:18 do any of that work, nor is there a time frame within
14:19:21 which that work must be completed. We continue to
14:19:24 object to that, and would encourage your careful
14:19:28 consideration of that contract. Thank you.
14:19:30 > Thank you. Next.
14:19:36 > My name is Anthony Careno. I'd like to briefly
14:19:42 comment on item number 17, and I apologize I got into
14:19:45 the chamber late so I don't know what was discussed
14:19:48 previous, but I am a third-generation West Tampa
14:19:50 person. I have very fond memories of the Centro
14:19:56 Espanol building. I went to many functions and

14:19:59 performances there, and I have to admit some ignorance.
14:20:02 I was not aware that the building had in essence
14:20:04 already been transferred to the private sector. I had
14:20:07 assumed that the urban league was a public institution.
14:20:09 I was not aware. So I am concerned about the future of
14:20:12 it. I mean, it's one of the rarest gems in a city with
14:20:16 many gems. In the 1980s, I, along with some of my
14:20:22 peers, were fortunate enough, we were invited to serve
14:20:24 on a local task force when the national park service
14:20:28 was down from Washington to evaluate Ybor City for
14:20:32 national historic landmark district and I was part of
14:20:35 the tour that they gave of Ybor City. And they were
14:20:38 particularly fascinated by the mutual aid societies
14:20:43 that were part of Tampa's history and that was one of
14:20:45 the leading factors in designating Ybor as such. As an
14:20:50 aside, as a tangent, I offered to show the committee
14:20:53 the Centro Espanol building at the time. I believe, I
14:20:56 forget the sequence of events, it might have been right
14:21:01 after the city acquired the structure. And at the time
14:21:04 the express purpose was to maintain it in the public
14:21:07 sector for general public use. A lot has happened
14:21:10 since then. I left Tampa for a while. I've since

14:21:13 returned, and now I feel motivated to act. I am
14:21:16 concerned. I don't mean to disparage in any way, you
14:21:21 know, Church Without Walls. I know they do a lot of
14:21:24 good work, but I think I'm just trying to point out
14:21:26 that this building is so special. I would love to see
14:21:29 the city be very proactive in maintaining a true gem
14:21:33 that is readily accessible to all citizens. I think it
14:21:37 would make a beautiful arts and cultural center. I
14:21:40 remember the theater. It is absolutely fantastic. It
14:21:44 is -- you know, what I see in Tampa, if I may comment
14:21:47 here after being gone for some years and returning, I
14:21:50 think it has the potential to be a great city. I don't
14:21:53 think we're there yet. I compare it -- I compare it to
14:21:56 soup. You know, you can put all the ingredients in a
14:22:00 pot and you start to simmer, but there's a point which
14:22:04 it becomes soup. We're not soup yet. And it's kind of
14:22:07 sad because we've got all the ingredients. We have
14:22:10 such a heritage. It's Florida sense of place. That's
14:22:13 what I call it. It's unique in Florida. And there's
14:22:16 various aspects of the city that are special, various
14:22:18 buildings that are special. The national park service
14:22:22 of absolutely floored with the Centro Espanol of West

14:22:25 Tampa. One guy specifically said of all the buildings
14:22:28 he saw that day, he said they're all impressive, but
14:22:33 architecturally, that is his pick for the outstanding
14:22:36 building in all of Tampa. Those were his words. I
14:22:39 don't remember the gentleman's name. We're going back
14:22:40 20 years. I'm an old man, the brain's not functioning
14:22:43 as well. But please, please, please, do whatever we
14:22:46 can to think out of the box and let's get this building
14:22:49 in some sort of cultural or -- I know it's easy to say,
14:22:52 if I had a check for 3 million dollars, I'd give it to
14:22:56 you but there has to be a way. I've been fortunate
14:22:58 enough to travel the world and most of the United
14:22:59 States and I've seen what other cities have done. I
14:23:02 think we're on the right track. I think all in all,
14:23:05 you all have done a good job, but we're not soup yet.
14:23:08 Let's help it become soup. Thank you very much.
14:23:14 > It's nice to see you back, sir.
14:23:31 > Morning, council. May name is Joe Robinson, district
14:23:36 five in West Tampa, the baby dinosaur. I'm here today
14:23:42 to speak on item 17, the Centro Espanol. My mother and
14:23:45 I own a quarter of the block that the Centro is in and
14:23:49 we lived there since 1962. What I have on the

14:23:51 overhead, I passed it out to show that I am a
14:23:55 historical preservationist, you know how far we go
14:23:57 back. I want to show what I was doing and why I'm here
14:24:00 today. This was an article published in the historic
14:24:04 preservation for the national trust in July/August
14:24:07 1982, and if you can put it on the overhead, just the
14:24:10 scene showing the -- that was the last scene the people
14:24:13 were using the Centro Espanol. You can see on the next
14:24:18 page the different architectural works, and then on the
14:24:23 last page where you have a guy rolling the cigar, look
14:24:28 to the right, you see a guy standing by the building
14:24:31 where it says UFO, that's me, 20 some years ago as a
14:24:36 preservationist. There's an article in there saying
14:24:38 I'm built like a linebacker, but I have the ability to
14:24:42 mingle --
14:24:43 > Can't see it.
14:24:44 > There you go.
14:24:44 > That's Joe Robinson back in the day. So, now believe
14:24:48 it or not, that building is not the Centro Espanol.
14:24:51 You know what building that is?
14:24:53 > No.
14:24:53 > That is the cigar factory that Barbara baker's

14:24:58 parking lot was on that was demolished. That was the
14:25:01 last photo taken before it was demolished. They had a
14:25:04 fire, and they eventually demolished that building, and
14:25:07 that is where Barbara baker who has her shop has the
14:25:11 parking lot. I want to bring that in and say that I've
14:25:14 been around and this is a topic issue. As far as who
14:25:16 owns the building, it's not an issue, but I just want
14:25:19 to show something for the record. The original intent,
14:25:23 and I don't want to embarrass you, but this is a pretty
14:25:27 picture of you, but if you go to the overhead, you can
14:25:30 see that --
14:25:30 > We can't see it. Okay. There.
14:25:32 > I got to turn the overhead on. Okay. On the
14:25:36 overhead, you'll see that this is a journal from the
14:25:38 urban league from 2001, and if you note specifically it
14:25:43 states that the Hillsborough urban league just months
14:25:47 away from completing the renovation of the Centro
14:25:51 Espanol is the league's new headquarters, and, quote,
14:25:55 home of its community cultural arts center. And with
14:25:59 that said, my mother and I asking, and I know all of
14:26:03 the people are wondering, what do we think since we're
14:26:08 the adjacent property for the last 44 odd years. What

14:26:11 we're asking, I have called -- she don't want to come
14:26:15 back to Tampa. She in Georgia, retired after all the
14:26:18 other issues, but she said this, Joe, if it's a
14:26:21 cultural -- community cultural arts center, we're for
14:26:23 it. Otherwise we have issues. But we've been looking
14:26:26 for that building to be completed. I look at it every
14:26:29 day. It's one of the -- as a matter of fact, I was
14:26:32 involved with the community design center, I was
14:26:34 involved with getting it on the national register. I
14:26:37 eat, breathe, and slept almost literally in that
14:26:41 building and what I'm asking city council to do is to
14:26:43 wait until all the facts are in. I don't really care
14:26:45 who owns it bus as long as they provide a community
14:26:48 cultural arts center and not a soup line, I think that
14:26:52 we'll be okay. And I just wanted to put that on the
14:26:55 record that I am a preservationist and I am with
14:26:57 district five and I would appreciate if you could work
14:27:00 with the community and let's work this out because they
14:27:04 stopped the sale and it's been pending now so the sale
14:27:09 was stopped so it's open since December 15th.
14:27:13 > Anyone else like to speak? Okay. We going to go to
14:27:16 item number 18.

14:27:21 > Yes, council, item 18 is file Z06-94. It was placed
14:27:27 on the agenda for full council action pursuant to rule
14:27:29 4(C) of the council's rules of procedure. By motion of
14:27:33 the public hearing was closed. Council members
14:27:37 Harrison and white were absent and I ask them now are
14:27:40 you prepared to vote on this issue?
14:27:41 > Yes.
14:27:41 > Yes.
14:27:42 > Okay. Council, I believe a vote is in order. If we
14:27:45 can ask the clerk how the motion was made, and I
14:27:49 believe you want to announce what that is?
14:27:53 > It was a motion to approve; is that correct?
14:27:58 > Yes.
14:27:59 > Yes. That ordinance be placed on second reading and
14:28:04 adopted, and the title of the said ordinance was read
14:28:07 in full. The motion was not adopted with Dingfelder
14:28:20 voting no.
14:28:21 > I believe --
14:28:22 > Read the vote. Call for the questions. All in
14:28:25 favor --
14:28:25 > Is it second reading? I believe it has to be a roll
14:28:28 call vote; is that correct?

14:28:30 > Okay. Second reading.
14:28:32 > Dingfelder --
14:28:33 > The motion is to approve?
14:28:35 > The motion is to approve is that correct?
14:28:37 > Yes. Uh-huh.
14:28:39 > Vote and roll call.
14:28:41 > Dingfelder?
14:28:42 > No.
14:28:43 > Saul-Sena?
14:28:45 > No.
14:28:46 > Alvarez?
14:28:47 > Yes.
14:28:48 > Miller?
14:28:50 > Yes.
14:28:51 > Harrison?
14:28:52 > No.
14:28:54 > Ferlita?
14:28:55 > Yes.
14:28:57 > White?
14:28:59 > Yes.
14:29:03 > Motion carried 4-3. It's Dingfelder, Saul-Sena and
14:29:09 Harrison voting no.

14:29:11 > Okay. Item 19?
14:29:15 > Item number 19 is file number Z06- 107, again placed
14:29:20 on the agenda for full council action pursuant to rule
14:29:23 4(C) of the council's rules of procedure. Again, by
14:29:25 motion of the public hearing was closed. Council, it's
14:29:28 been brought to my attention that the attorney was
14:29:31 retained to present a procedural objection to preserve
14:29:34 the record. Council, I would believe that as long as
14:29:37 it doesn't go to the merits of the case, it would be
14:29:40 appropriate to take that and note that for the record
14:29:44 prior to taking a vote.
14:29:45 > Okay. Miss Beth Johnson.
14:29:51 > And I should also add to that, Ms. Cole is absolutely
14:29:55 correct, and pursuant to that because an objection is
14:29:58 raised, to allow due process, the attorney for the
14:30:02 petitioner would have an opportunity to respond to
14:30:04 that, and as well legally, if he sees fit.
14:30:07 > Elizabeth Johnson 1819 Richardson Place, and I
14:30:13 represent the property owner at 202 and 201 North
14:30:17 Grady, and I have to say you all have heard me several
14:30:20 times say I wasn't going to do any more neighborhood
14:30:24 issues. But Barbara is really persuasive, and I think

14:30:27 there's a fundamental problem in this town with very
14:30:31 few attorneys who can even represent neighborhoods.
14:30:35 Otherwise they get conflicted out. Regarding Miss
14:30:38 Beck's procedural objections, you all received a letter
14:30:42 that she copied all of you on. That's an ex parte
14:30:47 communication. I'm disclosing that right now. But she
14:30:50 had concerns in the rule regarding the order of
14:30:53 presentation last week. You've seen that letter. I'm
14:30:56 not going to take up your time going into it. Another
14:31:00 really important issue, and I guess I need to hear this
14:31:04 be confirmed for the record, if your attorney thinks
14:31:08 that it should be, but it's my understanding that when
14:31:11 members of council were absent previously, and a matter
14:31:14 gets brought to unfinished business automatically,
14:31:18 those council members who were absent were required to
14:31:21 have reviewed the materials and the evidence in the
14:31:24 record, and there was substantial evidence in the
14:31:27 record put ob by the neighborhood, and of course we
14:31:30 want to make sure that that happens, and that's one of
14:31:33 our procedural concerns. And then finally, we also
14:31:37 raised in the letter an issue regarding the oath, and I
14:31:41 spoke to Mr. Bently beforehand because I think as a

14:31:47 professional courtesy I never want to be blind siding
14:31:51 anyone, but there is a very fundamental disagreement
14:31:54 about whether or not Mr. Bentley was sworn in, and I
14:31:58 was not there, but my client and at least two other
14:32:01 neighbors believe that he was not present for the
14:32:04 general administration of the oath beforehand. Or even
14:32:09 willing -- they have signed affidavits to that effect.
14:32:12 Their understanding that they were in the audience, and
14:32:14 they watched, and -- and I think that Mr. Bentley, he
14:32:19 represents a lot of different people, and as a fellow
14:32:22 lawyer, I respect him, but I'm just hoping that maybe
14:32:26 there is a misunderstanding or there has a lot of
14:32:30 hearings, but at any rate I'd like to put these
14:32:33 affidavits in the record on a procedural end, and I
14:32:36 would also like to say that under your rules, I think
14:32:39 that's absolutely crystal clear that this is not a
14:32:43 fuzzy area at all, but that your rule 6E states the
14:32:48 oath or ample affirmation shall be required of all
14:32:54 persons speaking at a city council at a quasi-judicial
14:33:00 hearing, which this was. And that works hand in hand
14:33:02 with rule 6D. And I think that's -- that's very
14:33:06 important, because yes this is in black and white in

14:33:13 your rules, but also, Mr. Bentley went into factual
14:33:18 areas that the people in the neighborhood actually have
14:33:20 some factual questions about namely regarding the age
14:33:23 of the strip mall, the painting and updates that were
14:33:28 supposedly done, and a percentage of neighborhood
14:33:30 support, and even regarding that, one gentleman who was
14:33:35 in favor before, and I don't want to put words in his
14:33:38 mouth because I am not representing him, but Joshua Fay
14:33:43 would really like a continuance because he would like
14:33:46 to explore these issues more. So these are our
14:33:50 procedural concerns. I do want to get these affidavits
14:33:52 in the record, and I fundamentally believe that if
14:33:56 there is this fundamental procedural problem, the
14:34:00 hearing ought to be reopened and we ought to have a
14:34:02 second true public hearing on this matter. Thank you.
14:34:06 > Miss Saul-Sena?
14:34:09 > LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question for Mr. Shelby.
14:34:11 > Yes. Council, before you do, I would just
14:34:14 acknowledge the fact that we're receiving these three
14:34:16 affidavits. And also, likewise, I'm entering into the
14:34:21 record a copy of the E-mail that was addressed to me
14:34:24 that was also copied to the city council members. I'm

14:34:27 sorry, Miss Saul-Sena.
14:34:29 > LINDA SAUL-SENA: My question is a procedural
14:34:31 question. Today we have seven members of council. We
14:34:36 won't have seven members next week, and then when we
14:34:38 get seven members again two of them will be new. So
14:34:43 could we, after we hear from Mr. Bentley, make a motion
14:34:47 to reopen this public hearing? Couldn't we?
14:34:51 > To make a motion to reopen it?
14:34:53 > LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yeah. Couldn't we --
14:34:56 > MARTIN SHELBY: You have that ability to reopen a
14:34:58 public hearing. You have that ability.
14:35:01 > Mr. Bentley? Zoo.
14:35:10 > Good afternoon. My name is Mark Bentley representing
14:35:14 the applicant. I think this is the fifth time in this
14:35:17 ongoing saga that I've been in front of council about
14:35:20 this issue. With respect to allegations on the oath, I
14:35:24 was in the room. I'm an officer of the court and
14:35:27 licensed by the Florida Bar and I have an obligation to
14:35:29 be candid before a tribunal, don't even have to be
14:35:33 sworn and number three, I gave no new testimony. In
14:35:37 terms of the procedural allegation that something was
14:35:40 improper the way it was handled, I simply gave rebuttal

14:35:43 and requested Madam chairman, and then the hearing was
14:35:47 closed so everything was perfectly in order. We
14:35:48 followed your rules to a T, so I would respectfully
14:35:53 request that the council move forward and vote on this
14:35:56 matter. And you might want to inquire of Miss foal
14:36:01 here, too. I think that it's my perspective in
14:36:04 speaking with your legal counsel that everything was in
14:36:07 order and I had no obligation obviously to give a third
14:36:11 presentation to council. I mean that's pretty absurd
14:36:14 and unusual for someone to do that. So thank you very
14:36:17 much. I appreciate it.
14:36:18 > Thank you. Mr. Shelby, are we going to move on?
14:36:22 > I'd just like to make it perfectly clear, one of the
14:36:25 other things that Miss Johnson brought forward, as I
14:36:28 stated earlier, that Mr. Shelby, as our counsel, mother
14:36:34 hen and nervous Nelly, I do have a copy of a
14:36:37 transcript, as well as the other thing, and I
14:36:42 personally am prepared to vote.
14:36:44 > Mr. Harrison, do you wish to address it at all? Are
14:36:48 you prepared to vote as well?
14:36:50 > SHAWN HARRISON: I'm prepared to vote. I watched the
14:36:51 proceedings tape.

14:36:52 > With regard to -- I'm sorry.
14:37:01 > I wanted --
14:37:04 > If I can, counsel, I just would like to address a
14:37:07 couple of issues. With regard to procedural due
14:37:12 process that was referenced in the letter, particularly
14:37:17 6A, it is my opinion that council has followed its
14:37:24 rules of procedure. Rule 6A does not require or demand
14:37:28 a petitioner, and particularly the custom of a second
14:37:31 public hearing, to represent their case. Obviously
14:37:35 once new testimony was offered, he did have a legal
14:37:39 right to rebuttal, and I did include that in my
14:37:41 response to Miss Steck on behalf of her neighborhood
14:37:45 association. With regard to rule regarding the oath of
14:37:50 office, counsel, I should point out that it did follow
14:37:55 its rules of procedure. As you recall, the chair did
14:37:58 direct the clerk, swear in the witnesses. And as you
14:38:02 know, I normally, as a matter of custom, remind the
14:38:06 witnesses to audibly state that they have, in fact,
14:38:10 been sworn. Whether or not they choose to or neglect
14:38:14 to do that, that would go to the weight of the
14:38:16 evidence. Whether council wishes to weigh their
14:38:19 evidence of the testimony any differently. You heard

14:38:22 Mr. Bentley just state now that as I recall he did
14:38:26 state that he -- he was sworn, but with regard to
14:38:31 council's rules of procedure, it is my opinion that
14:38:35 they were followed, that this was a properly-noticed
14:38:39 public hearing, there was an opportunity to be heard,
14:38:43 and that there is, in my opinion, no basis for -- I
14:38:57 would feel that there would be a reversible error based
14:39:00 upon council's handling of this matter up to this
14:39:03 point. Miss Cole, did you want to opine at all?
14:39:09 > I agree with what Mr. Shelby has said. I reviewed
14:39:11 his response to the letter that was received and we had
14:39:14 an opportunity to discuss it and I agreed that your
14:39:17 rules were followed, that procedural due process was
14:39:20 given to all parties in this matter and it is
14:39:22 appropriate to move forward.
14:39:26 > ROSE FERLITA: I just want to make a comment on the
14:39:28 record. I don't believe at this point, given the
14:39:32 explanation and the determination of Mr. Shelby and
14:39:35 Miss Cole as well that there is any ethical thing that
14:39:38 has been violated by Mr. Bentley. Given that the other
14:39:44 side has hired an attorney at this point and did not
14:39:46 have that legal representation before, I don't know

14:39:49 what the sense of this council is going to be, but in
14:39:51 the event that she wants to go forward with waiving
14:39:54 those rules, just for additional testimony, not, again,
14:39:57 to me discrediting what Mr. Bentley did, I think he
14:40:02 acted very appropriately in behalf of his client, but I
14:40:06 certainly would entertain that.
14:40:11 > To get as much information before council before
14:40:14 making a vote, I would like to move to reopen the
14:40:17 public hearing to allow additional testimony. That's
14:40:20 my motion. Waive the counsel's rules.
14:40:23 > I have a motion and a motion, Mr. White?
14:40:28 > KEVIN WHITE: Just procedurally here, Mr. Shelby, I
14:40:31 just want clarification. Did you say only if there's
14:40:37 new -- we can't offer any new testimony, or --
14:40:41 > Well, council, it is council's custom that if
14:40:46 somebody has testified previously at the same public
14:40:48 hearing, that they are -- that council does not
14:40:53 recognize them to give additional testimony. If they
14:40:58 have the opportunity to do it at the first public -- I
14:41:01 mean, excuse me, if they had the opportunity to do it
14:41:03 the first time at the same public hearing. Obviously
14:41:05 if there are two public hearings, they have the

14:41:07 opportunity to speak twice, and that may have been the
14:41:09 case, so the answer to the question is that they are
14:41:14 allowed to offer new testimony if there -- if there is
14:41:17 a factual basis that council believes that taking
14:41:20 additional testimony is warranted.
14:41:26 > And with new evidence, can people talk again?
14:41:30 > MARTIN SHELBY: Well, not if -- council has acted in
14:41:33 the past where somebody had previously talked at the
14:41:36 same public hearing, the second reading or first
14:41:39 reading, that they would not be given the opportunity
14:41:42 to do so. So the answer is if council wishes to keep
14:41:46 in that custom, the answer to that is no. With regard
14:41:49 to new testimony -- oh, council, if you wish to open
14:41:53 the public hearing, you do have the due process
14:41:55 obligations which are afforded to the petitioner. Mind
14:41:58 you he will have the opportunity to present his case
14:42:01 again, he will have the opportunity for the time limits
14:42:05 as given by council. He will also have the opportunity
14:42:07 to rebut after the public has had the opportunity to
14:42:10 speak pursuant to due process. So if council wishes to
14:42:14 do that -- and, by the way, I don't know whether
14:42:20 Mr. Bentley wishes to address it or not, but that is

14:42:23 within council's prerogative if it chooses to do that.
14:42:27 > By the time we get to -- Kevin will term out.
14:42:32 > Okay. We have a motion, a second to reopen the
14:42:35 public hearing. All in favor of the motion.
14:42:39 > I guess if we're going to hear only new testimony
14:42:42 that is offered in some way to rebut something that has
14:42:48 already been said, I'm not sure that I would
14:42:53 necessarily disagree with that, but if we're going to
14:42:55 listen to the same arguments again, which I think we've
14:42:57 heard now enough for all of us to make decisions, then
14:43:01 I don't really see any point in that. So if we have to
14:43:04 reopen it for just the whole ball of wax, start over
14:43:08 from scratch, I'm not in favor. If we can limit it
14:43:11 only to --
14:43:12 > Yes. That's my intent.
14:43:13 > And Madam chair --
14:43:16 > How do you --
14:43:18 > Madam chairman, what about listening to new --
14:43:22 assuming new evidence or assuming somebody else's
14:43:24 different input. For instance, I think Miss Patrick
14:43:27 wasn't feeling well and I don't believe she had a
14:43:29 chance to speak and she's the leadership of that area.

14:43:32 That's what I'm saying. And we don't all want to hear
14:43:34 all of this again.
14:43:35 > But if you open it everybody's got to --
14:43:37 > Well, no, you can specify, I think. I don't know.
14:43:41 > Miss Cole, if you want to chime in --
14:43:43 > MARTIN SHELBY: You can choose to limit the scope,
14:43:45 but I just want to inform you that Mr. Bentley would
14:43:48 have still the opportunity to be able to --
14:43:50 > No doubt. No doubt.
14:43:54 > I think I'm just a little confused about what it is
14:43:56 you're trying to accomplish. If the point is to allow
14:43:59 testimony -- new testimony to rebut Mr. Bentley's
14:44:06 rebuttal at the last hearing, is it to allow for people
14:44:10 who haven't spoken to talk about the project, or is it
14:44:15 to allow all new testimony? Because I think the
14:44:18 problem is if you make it clear what it is you want, it
14:44:23 will be very difficult on our end to police the
14:44:26 information and advise you accordingly.
14:44:28 > My intent is new information.
14:44:40 >MARY ALVAREZ: We had the first reading, people here
14:44:42 talking about it, the public input, the second reading,
14:44:47 more people came over and talked about the same thing.

14:44:49 I thought our rule was to have the council members that
14:44:51 were not here to look at the transcripts, look at the
14:44:55 videos, and then make up their minds. We're going
14:44:57 through the whole ball of wax. We may as well just
14:45:00 throw everything out and start all over again, and this
14:45:03 is -- you know, and this is what we used to do before.
14:45:08 We would take rule 6A and we would say, Miss Miller,
14:45:13 Miss Alvarez, did you look at the transcript? Yes, I
14:45:16 did, and I'm ready to vote, just like Mr. White did.
14:45:19 All of a sudden, we're taking new testimony and what's
14:45:21 going to happen is that this is going to go back to
14:45:23 first reading. That's what's going to happen.
14:45:25 > I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I believe, council
14:45:30 member Alvarez, what you are referring to is 4C.
14:45:34 > 4C, 4A, whatever it is. Let's just do it.
14:45:41 > I was just going to say, I just think it's a
14:45:44 procedural matter, I think, then we're going to be
14:45:48 talking about an undue burden, whether it passes,
14:45:52 whether it fails or not, I think the petitioner -- I
14:45:56 think it's undue and unfair advantage for the
14:46:00 petitioner, when we're opening up a third time just for
14:46:03 an inconvenience because we're saying somebody didn't

14:46:05 get to show up. We haven't done that in the past, and
14:46:08 that's a bad precedence to open it up again for a third
14:46:12 public hearing just to say somebody couldn't make it
14:46:15 and we've had three public hearings here before.
14:46:17 > And I strongly, wholeheartedly feel for whoever the
14:46:22 president or the liaison for that community, I'm sorry,
14:46:24 but we've had two or three public hearings already if
14:46:28 you couldn't make them, we have telephones, we have
14:46:31 E-mails and we have -- I certainly have all of the
14:46:34 petition forms, and E-mails signed. I have the
14:46:37 information. If they can't come to council chambers
14:46:41 when we have a meeting, we have several other methods
14:46:45 of disseminating the information to us. I don't think
14:46:48 it's fair to the petitioner, I don't think it's fair to
14:46:52 the council.
14:46:53 > You cannot speak. No. No. No, Miss Johnson, you
14:46:56 have spoken. You cannot speak anymore.
14:46:58 > That's just how I feel. I think it would be opening
14:47:00 a can of worms to start doing something just to appease
14:47:03 one or two people when we have that policy and
14:47:10 procedures in place that we've been following all
14:47:13 along, and then the petitioner behind Mr. Bentley will

14:47:15 come up and say well, I have a neighborhood person that
14:47:18 wasn't here able to speak on my behalf, due to whatever
14:47:22 reason. He was going in the hospital. If he wasn't
14:47:25 going in the hospital, then he could come up two weeks
14:47:28 from now and say I was in the hospital, I didn't get a
14:47:30 chance. We all know Mr. Stinkton is very active in his
14:47:35 community, but our rules are our rules, and we've been
14:47:38 talking about this forever, and we need to stick to our
14:47:41 rules unless there's something that is overwhelming,
14:47:43 something that we have never heard before that was the
14:47:47 procedural error, which we cleared that up. There's
14:47:50 nothing new that needs to be put into evidence, and we
14:47:53 should follow our rules, vote, and whether it goes up,
14:47:57 whether it goes down, no matter how it goes, and move
14:47:59 forward.
14:47:59 > Call for the question.
14:48:00 > If I can, before we do that, I just want to be clear,
14:48:04 if there was any other additional ex parte
14:48:08 communications that was forwarded to the front desk
14:48:12 receptionist that was available to the public that it
14:48:14 be received and filed into the record prior to the
14:48:16 vote. Do you know, Madam clerk, if there was anything

14:48:19 that needs to be received and filed?
14:48:21 > These items here? Thank you. Anything else,
14:48:26 council?
14:48:26 > Well, I think everybody got them, but I'll put them
14:48:29 in, too.
14:48:36 > Call for the question, Madam chair.
14:48:38 > Before you take a vote, I believe you might want to
14:48:40 hear from Miss cold that may affect your vote.
14:48:44 > Miss Johnson has indicated to me that she would like
14:48:47 to get up on the record and waive on behalf of her
14:48:51 client that she would like to reopen the meeting.
14:48:55 That's what she has said to me. I think she wanted to
14:48:57 say it to you on the record, so --
14:48:59 > And of course I just represent Miss stack. I don't
14:49:02 represent the other neighbors, but out of courtesy to
14:49:05 you all because we know you have been through this, and
14:49:10 our procedural objections are not meant to create any
14:49:14 undue respect or slowdown in your proceedings. I've
14:49:16 spoken with Miss stack, and she says that what she
14:49:21 would like to make sure of, is that those additional
14:49:24 E-mails that have come in be considered by you, also to
14:49:31 reaffirm that Mr. White and Mr. Harrison have reviewed

14:49:34 all the materials, but she is respectful of your time,
14:49:37 and at least on behalf of that client, I can put this
14:49:40 to rest and say that we waived our request for second
14:49:43 hearing.
14:49:43 > Thank you.
14:49:44 > Thank you.
14:49:45 > All right. Mr. Dingfelder.
14:49:52 > Okay. The pending procedural motion is withdrawn.
14:49:56 > Right.
14:49:57 > Okay. So now we're at the question and I just wanted
14:50:00 to make an additional disclosure. Actually, if you
14:50:02 want to put the question on the floor, why don't you
14:50:04 put that first.
14:50:05 > The motion.
14:50:06 > The motion.
14:50:07 > Madam clerk.
14:50:09 > The motion is that said ordinance be denied based on
14:50:14 section 27-324 where the petitioner is requesting a
14:50:20 waiver that 80% of parking is located in the front of
14:50:23 the parcel, city code section number 27-244 regarding
14:50:28 access to a residential street, and city code section
14:50:33 27-326 that requires that PD's promote and encourage

14:50:39 development that is compatible in location, character
14:50:43 of a surrounding and passive neighborhood environment,
14:50:48 and existing geography, and based on testimony of
14:50:53 adjacent residents and other residents of the area.
14:50:58 And this motion was not adopted with Dingfelder and
14:51:02 Miller voting no, and with Harrison and white being
14:51:06 absent.
14:51:07 > Okay. So voice roll call.
14:51:13 > Well, are you coming to me on the voice roll call?
14:51:18 > No. It is coming to me.
14:51:21 > I was going to do it as part of the vote.
14:51:23 > I would prefer it be prior to the vote, please.
14:51:26 > Okay. I did -- I did want to disclose -- I had a
14:51:31 phone call and contact from Miss Beth Johnson, as well
14:51:34 as E-mails from Pat Corwin and Jason Busta. I put
14:51:40 those E-mails into the record, and I think everything
14:51:42 else has been in the record. But in summary, because
14:51:45 Mr. Shelby always tells us we're supposed to say what
14:51:48 the substance was, basically I was urged to represent
14:51:52 the people of this community and they urged me to look
14:51:57 at the site and to visit the site again in the
14:51:59 neighborhood, and to look at the record completely all

14:52:02 over again. So I did that. Specifically last night, I
14:52:10 after a long meeting, I drove back out there to the
14:52:13 site, and I drove the neighborhood, and what I saw did
14:52:17 concern me greatly, more than I had seen before. What
14:52:25 I'm very concerned about is I'm concerned that when
14:52:27 that large building is not there anymore, that it's
14:52:31 kinda like a missing tooth, and I'm very worried about
14:52:33 the exposure that that neighborhood is now going to
14:52:35 have with an open lot, that that neighborhood is now
14:52:40 going to have basically the Kennedy. I'm worried about
14:52:43 the noise associated with that, the light associated
14:52:45 with that, all of that just basically pouring over that
14:52:48 property without any buffer, or with a minimal amount
14:52:51 of buffering to speak of. And that's something that I
14:52:54 didn't really think of until I saw it in person. So,
14:53:00 you know, we've been reminded over and over that we're
14:53:03 here to represent the people when, of course, we know
14:53:05 that, but we're also here to uphold the law in as fair
14:53:08 a manner as possible and that goes to the petitioner.
14:53:11 But on balance, I'm going to do something that I
14:53:14 rarely, rarely ever do, but I'm going to change my
14:53:17 position. I've reconsidered. I've reconsidered my

14:53:19 position and I've concluded I agree with Miss
14:53:22 Saul-Sena's motion. Anyway, you want to ask me how I'm
14:53:27 going to vote, I'll vote yes.
14:53:32 > Well, council, in that there have been ex parte
14:53:35 communications, in that council has handed things into
14:53:38 the record, in order to preserve the record and protect
14:53:43 against the charge of prejudice, Mr. Bentley, do you
14:53:47 wish to address any of that? Do you wish to review the
14:53:50 E-mails? Do you wish to make any comment? That's a
14:53:53 threshold question, because if you are, then I'm going
14:53:55 to ask that the public hearing be reopened.
14:53:58 > For everybody?
14:54:00 > Are we going to --
14:54:01 > No. To allow him to --
14:54:02 > Mr. Shelby, are you suggesting I review them and then
14:54:06 I have rebuttal to whatever communications?
14:54:10 > MARTIN SHELBY: That is your right. The issue that
14:54:17 I'm concerned with is that if there were any ex parte
14:54:22 communications between the time the public hearing was
14:54:24 closed and the time this vote was taken, and based on
14:54:29 the disclosure, one might have reason to believe it
14:54:32 affected the decision of a particular council member,

14:54:38 then you certainly have the right to have an
14:54:44 opportunity to rebut that in order to remove the
14:54:47 presumption of prejudice. And I'm offering you that
14:54:49 right.
14:54:49 > I don't need to review the E-mails but I just want to
14:54:52 get on the record my concern is that the catalyst that
14:54:55 appears that is disclosed by councilman Dingfelder to
14:55:01 go out and inspect the property. And the verbal
14:55:04 communications to the councilman, and so in that sense
14:55:09 I think the ex parte did influence the vote here which
14:55:13 is clearly outside the scope of this public hearing. I
14:55:16 just want to be clear on the record with respect to
14:55:18 that.
14:55:18 > Let me just clarify then because I think it's
14:55:21 important to clarify. The -- I was urged to reconsider
14:55:25 this matter by Miss Johnson verbally. The two E-mails
14:55:31 were very bare boned, it says please vote with the
14:55:34 neighborhood. You can see those for yourself. As a
14:55:37 result of the E-mails that I've been receiving in the
14:55:39 last couple of weeks, the ones that are -- were
14:55:42 previously on the record, I decided that since I was
14:55:45 driving home from downtown, I would swing by the site

14:55:47 again last night. I don't believe that's unusual or
14:55:52 improper, but that's what I did.
14:55:56 > Okay. Madam chairman, I'm not suggesting it was
14:56:00 improper, I'm just saying it was outside the scope of
14:56:01 the public hearing. Obviously the additional evidence
14:56:03 that was taken in by Councilman Dingfelder, which
14:56:07 clearly caused him to reverse his vote in large part.
14:56:09 Thank you very much.
14:56:10 > Madam chair, just procedurally, Mr. Shelby, the whole
14:56:15 idea of closing the public hearing and us watching the
14:56:19 tape is that we make decisions based on what happened
14:56:24 at that public hearing, and that we not make decisions
14:56:28 based on what happened after that public hearing.
14:56:32 > MARTIN SHELBY: That's correct.
14:56:34 > And so if we were to have received additional
14:56:37 E-mails, I mean, wouldn't the -- if you're going to
14:56:42 strictly go with what is procedurally the proper thing
14:56:44 to do, it is just to ignore them. I mean, if we are
14:56:48 sitting in our quasi-judicial -- and I know that that
14:56:50 is a very difficult thing for us sitting here as
14:56:54 elected officials representing -- representing people
14:56:56 to do, but, I mean, technically, that is what our --

14:56:59 what we should be doing. So I think now we're really
14:57:02 in a procedural issue, because Mr. Dingfelder has had
14:57:07 the benefit of evidence that I have not had the benefit
14:57:11 of.
14:57:12 > Which evidence?
14:57:14 > SHAWN HARRISON: Well, the Drive-by.
14:57:16 > It's Kennedy Boulevard.
14:57:18 > SHAWN HARRISON: Well, I understand that. I
14:57:20 understand that.
14:57:24 >John Hartman: Nobody was with me.
14:57:26 > SHAWN HARRISON: I understand that. And I'm not
14:57:28 suggesting once again that anything improper happened
14:57:30 here, but from the standpoint of fairness of everybody
14:57:34 concerned, we're making a decision -- there's no doubt
14:57:37 we're making a decision on additional evidence. So
14:57:39 should we not just -- I mean, I don't think we can open
14:57:42 the public hearing now, and expect for the petitioner
14:57:45 to respond, so should we not just continue this and
14:57:49 just --
14:57:52 > MARTIN SHELBY: I think we're in, for this council,
14:57:56 somewhat uncharted territory.
14:57:59 > That's what we were saying a minute ago before we

14:58:01 started doing all of this.
14:58:03 > MARTIN SHELBY: The issue --
14:58:04 > Can I make a quick statement?
14:58:06 > MARTIN SHELBY: Yes.
14:58:07 > Our rules say with regard to ex parte communication
14:58:10 that they recognize that sometimes ex parte
14:58:13 communication will happen, but that's why we disclose
14:58:16 it, and that's consistent with the case.
14:58:20 > What's the case?
14:58:22 > It's not Schneider, it's Jennings, the Jennings case,
14:58:27 which basically says that recognizes that
14:58:30 quasi-judicial bodies on occasion might receive ex
14:58:33 parte communication. You might be walking through
14:58:35 Publix and somebody comes up to you and talks to you,
14:58:38 okay, Miss Johnson called my cellphone, and it didn't
14:58:42 say Beth Johnson across my cellphone, it just said
14:58:45 whatever her number was. I picked it up and we started
14:58:48 talking. Very quickly thereafter, I said, you know, we
14:58:50 shouldn't be talking about this, but I'm going to go
14:58:52 ahead and disclose it. That's what our rules speak to.
14:58:57 > MARTIN SHELBY: It's a two-step process. The first
14:58:59 step is a disclosure. The purpose of a disclosure is

14:59:02 to put the petitioner or the person who is adverse to
14:59:05 that ex parte communication on notice that that person
14:59:08 has an opportunity to respond to it if that person so
14:59:11 chooses. Now --
14:59:12 > Second step?
14:59:13 > That's the second step. So that's why --
14:59:16 > So it's done.
14:59:17 > MARTIN SHELBY: Well, the question Mr. Bentley had
14:59:19 indicated that he believed that -- well, we haven't
14:59:22 gotten to that threshold question. Mr. Bentley
14:59:24 believes that from what he says that he appears that
14:59:26 the communication was somewhat prejudicial, for lack of
14:59:32 a better word. Now the question that I have is does
14:59:35 Mr. Bentley acknowledge that and wish to go on, or does
14:59:38 Mr. Bentley wish to have the opportunity to --
14:59:40 > Excuse me. Don't interrupt. Don't interrupt. Let
14:59:44 him finish.
14:59:45 > MARTIN SHELBY: Does he wish to have the opportunity
14:59:46 to do what it takes to make the rebuttal to the ex
14:59:50 parte communication or do you wish to waive that and
14:59:53 proceed?
14:59:54 > Well, once again, Mark Bentley for the record.

14:59:57 Obviously I don't know the substance of the
14:59:58 communication with Beth Johnson. I would have loved to
15:00:00 have the same opportunity speak with the councilman
15:00:02 directly on this matter. Clearly, I'm at a complete
15:00:07 disadvantage here even though it's hearing number five
15:00:11 in that I'm presented actually at the hearing with
15:00:13 numerous E-mails and council people telling me that
15:00:16 they've had communications. So I'm in no position to
15:00:20 rebut anything. So I mean clearly from a due process
15:00:23 standpoint, I mean, there's some blatant violations of
15:00:27 my client's due process rights. The whole proceeding
15:00:30 is just so irregular and out of the norm, and I think
15:00:33 some of the council people have actually acknowledged
15:00:34 that, so --
15:00:35 > Let me just say that you've made a good record, mark.
15:00:38 Let me just say that I make a good record. I have
15:00:40 stated and I will state as a member of the bar, okay,
15:00:43 and we're up here as sworn officers, that I've told you
15:00:47 what the extent of my conversation was with Miss
15:00:51 Johnson and she can confirm that as a member of the bar
15:00:54 as well. It was very short. She urged me to review
15:00:57 the record, to review the E-mails that are already a

15:00:59 part of the record, and to reconsider my previous vote.
15:01:04 And that was the extent of it. So don't impugn, you
15:01:08 know, what I've said. That was the extent of my
15:01:11 conversation with Miss Johnson. It was nothing more,
15:01:14 nothing less.
15:01:14 > Let's hear from Miss Ferlita.
15:01:18 > ROSE FERLITA: Madam chairman, thank you. John, I'm
15:01:21 absolutely on the same page that are you. I think what
15:01:23 you've done is very appropriate, and if Mr. Bentley and
15:01:26 the rest of the listening audience remember I said when
15:01:31 we first voted on this, I said at this point I am not
15:01:34 prepared to support it. If I have an opportunity, I'll
15:01:37 go back. I have a sense that the compatibility issue
15:01:40 is an issue that will cause me to vote against it. And
15:01:43 I had no ex parte communication with anybody, but at
15:01:45 the same time what you were -- what was available to
15:01:47 you, John, was available to me, and I went by there
15:01:50 again because I knew we were coming back tonight, so
15:01:53 nothing that Miss Johnson said or that anybody else
15:01:56 said to you affected my decision or changing my
15:02:00 decision. Very often when you vote and then you have
15:02:02 an opportunity to vote again, you go to the site and

15:02:04 redetermine it. You know, without anybody telling you,
15:02:07 that the neighborhood wants you to support them, the
15:02:10 petitioner wants you to support them. You went there
15:02:12 and nobody was in your car saying, John, you've got to
15:02:16 change your vote. That didn't happen. So I would hope
15:02:19 that we go forward, and whatever Mr. Bentley wants to
15:02:22 do, so be it, but I think you reviewed the evidence on
15:02:26 your own, and it obviously has brought you to a
15:02:28 different determination than before, and I think we
15:02:31 need to go forward. Now, if Mr. Bentley wants to take
15:02:34 whatever time he has the right to take and dispute what
15:02:38 was discussed with you, which has been very
15:02:41 appropriately disclosed, then so be it, so long as at
15:02:45 the end of the day or at the end of the afternoon or at
15:02:47 the end of the night, or whatever it takes, I don't
15:02:49 want anything to prevent us from voting. I want to
15:02:52 weigh in on this, and I think Mr. Dingfelder acted
15:02:56 appropriately in terms of disclosing what Mr. Shelby
15:02:59 would want him to disclose, and at some point during
15:03:03 the activity of this meeting, we need to go forward.
15:03:05 > If I can, before Mr. Bentley speaks, I believe Miss
15:03:09 Cole would just like to recap where we are.

15:03:13 > The way I see it at this point we have two options.
15:03:16 One option is -- and ask Mr. Bentley whether or not he
15:03:21 just wants to take his vote on the basis of the record
15:03:23 that's in front of him, take his vote and move on. The
15:03:26 second option is we can reopen the public hearing,
15:03:28 allow -- my concern about this information is it wasn't
15:03:31 brought into the record in part of the public hearing.
15:03:33 You need to bring it in as part of the public hearing,
15:03:36 allow Miss Johnson the opportunity to testify what
15:03:38 occurred, and allow Mr. Bentley an opportunity to
15:03:41 testify about what occurred. I am concerned about the
15:03:44 opportunity be heard -- Mr. Bentley really should have
15:03:47 an opportunity to be able to review all of the
15:03:49 petitions that came in, and to be able to make his case
15:03:52 that that -- the second option, in my opinion, is to go
15:03:56 ahead, reopen the public hearing, and if Mr. Bentley
15:03:59 wants to go ahead and go forward with this option, what
15:04:03 we can do then is go ahead and either have that hearing
15:04:06 later today or continue it to allow him to have that
15:04:08 public hearing, but I will be frank and honest with
15:04:12 you, I believe Mr. Bentley needs to weigh in on how he
15:04:15 wishes to proceed, in all fairness to him.

15:04:18 > Mr. Bentley?
15:04:19 > Okay. Let's get this over with. Our position, the
15:04:24 bell has been rung on this, and there's nothing I can
15:04:28 do. I think looking at some E-mails is not going to I
15:04:31 think change anything. They're pretty much probably
15:04:34 the same E-mails. But in any event, we would request
15:04:38 that the chair call the questions, and just in closing,
15:04:41 I just want to say I appreciate all the time
15:04:43 consideration that's been going on, obviously a long
15:04:46 time, and here again, our property is zoned CG, and
15:04:49 that building is coming down one way or another and we
15:04:52 don't need any zoning to do something like a Village
15:04:55 Inn or a Taco Bell, which you've been already contacted
15:05:00 by some of these organizations. So thank you very
15:05:02 much.
15:05:02 > All right. We're going to call for the question.
15:05:04 Roll call vote.
15:05:05 > This is for what, denial.
15:05:07 > A yes vote is a vote to deny. And I vote to deny.
15:05:11 Is that correct?
15:05:12 > Yes. That is correct.
15:05:13 > Dingfelder?

15:05:14 > Yes.
15:05:15 > Saul-Sena?
15:05:18 > Yes.
15:05:19 > Alvarez?
15:05:20 > Yes.
15:05:20 > Miller?
15:05:22 > Yes.
15:05:22 > Harrison?
15:05:24 > Yes.
15:05:25 > Ferlita?
15:05:26 > Yes.
15:05:27 > White?
15:05:27 > No.
15:05:31 > Okay. Motion to deny was carried with white voting
15:05:34 no.
15:05:35 > Thank you.
15:05:37 > Okay. Item number 20.
15:05:45 > Council, item 20, again has been placed on the agenda
15:05:49 for full council consideration pursuant to rule 4(C).
15:05:53 This is Z06-119, and Madam clerk if you could just
15:05:59 restate the motion, please.
15:06:05 > The motion is that said ordinance be placed on second

15:06:08 reading and adopted. The title of said ordinance was
15:06:11 read in full. This motion was not adopted with Ferlita
15:06:16 voting no, Dingfelder being absent at vote, and White
15:06:20 being absent.
15:06:23 > We're going to call for the roll call vote?
15:06:26 > Vote I believe is something that's in order.
15:06:29 > Madam chair, just as a matter of procedure, I'll
15:06:33 abstain from this vote pursuant to direction from
15:06:35 counsel. Mr. Bersage is a client of our law firm, and
15:06:43 therefore pursuant to Florida, it is appropriate for me
15:06:47 to recuse myself.
15:06:48 > I believe he's going to be filing the appropriate
15:06:51 form in regard to that.
15:06:52 > Okay. This motion is to adopt, if you want to adopt,
15:06:55 it's yes. No is nay, correct? Okay. Voice roll call.
15:07:02 > Dingfelder?
15:07:03 > Abstaining.
15:07:05 > Saul-Sena?
15:07:06 > Yes.
15:07:07 > Alvarez?
15:07:08 > Yes.
15:07:08 > Miller?

15:07:09 > Yes.
15:07:10 > Harrison?
15:07:10 > No.
15:07:11 > Ferlita?
15:07:12 > No.
15:07:13 > White?
15:07:13 > Yes.
15:07:15 > Motion carried, 4-2. With Harrison and Ferlita
15:07:20 voting no and Dingfelder abstaining.
15:07:25 > Okay. Now going to item number 22. It's the first
15:07:31 reading. Mr. White, would you read number 22, please?
15:07:38 > KEVIN WHITE: Move an ordinance of the City of Tampa,
15:07:41 Florida pertaining to dedicated parks Amending Chapter
15:07:43 16, Article 7, section 16-150 entitled Dedicated Parks
15:07:47 to remove the parcel of land referred to as Tampa Water
15:07:51 Works Park from the list of dedicated parks; to amend
15:07:54 the name of the park referred to as Tampa Water Works
15:07:57 Park and additions to Tampa Water Works Park, and
15:08:01 amending section 16-154 C of the City of Tampa code by
15:08:07 adding language allowing for the conveyance of that
15:08:10 portion of the property previously described as the
15:08:13 Tampa Water Works Park, repealing all ordinances in

15:08:15 conflict, providing for severability; providing an
15:08:15 effective date.
15:08:15 > Motion and second, all in favor say aye? Opposed 98.
15:08:21 > We're going to skip and go to parks and recreation.
15:08:25 > Thank you, I move items 26 to 28.
15:08:28 > Second.
15:08:29 > A motion and a second. All in favor say aye, opposed
15:08:35 nay.
15:08:35 > All right. Finance committee, Mr. Kevin White.
15:08:38 > Thank you, Madam chair. I'd like to move items 35 to
15:08:41 39.
15:08:42 > Second.
15:08:42 > A motion and a second. All in favor say aye.
15:08:49 > I'd like to move items 40 and forty-five.
15:08:53 > Second.
15:08:54 > Transportation, Mr. Shawn Harrison.
15:08:56 > Thank you, move items 46 through 53.
15:08:59 > Second.
15:08:59 > Have a motion and a second. All in favor of the
15:09:01 motion say aye. Opposed nay.
15:09:05 > Items 54 through 59.
15:09:08 > Second.

15:09:09 > Have a motion and a second.
15:09:14 > With regards to items 55, 56, 57 and 58, I point out
15:09:18 to the chair that those are set for December 21st,
15:09:23 2006. Those are wet zoning public hearings. Council,
15:09:26 I had previously sent a memo to the administration
15:09:31 advising them that the chair had requested that no
15:09:34 additional public hearings be set for that day.
15:09:36 Council, how do you wish to proceed? Do you wish to
15:09:38 set it for another day or with full knowledge do you
15:09:41 wish to schedule four additional wet zoning public
15:09:44 hearings for December 21st?
15:09:46 > How many do we have already set for that date?
15:09:48 > Two. Two wet zone for that day and now --
15:09:54 > I don't have a problem with that.
15:09:56 > We need to be out of here by one o'clock.
15:09:59 > Well, we're going to have to -- we're all going to
15:10:01 have to be very --
15:10:02 > Put them all on there.
15:10:04 > You can do them.
15:10:11 > Madam chair I made a motion.
15:10:13 > Second.
15:10:13 > And I'm not going to reconsider it so we're good.

15:10:16 > Okay.
15:10:23 > Second to move the items 54 through 59, is that
15:10:26 correct?
15:10:26 > Yes.
15:10:27 > Okay. We get a second?
15:10:28 > Second. I second.
15:10:29 > Okay. All in favor of the motion say aye. Go back
15:10:34 to public safety, Miss rose Ferlita.
15:10:36 > Did somebody answer my concerns about 24 and I missed
15:10:40 it or what?
15:10:40 > No. You haven't done 24.
15:10:41 > Okay. So can we hold that and you all can deal with
15:10:45 it next week or something.
15:10:46 > You won't know about it.
15:10:48 > No, but I want them to know what's going on with 24.
15:10:51 I deal with sun trust. Sun trust is my bank, but I
15:10:54 just want somebody to know that this was all done
15:10:56 appropriately.
15:10:57 > I think this is a continuing --
15:10:59 > Yeah, but there should there be --
15:11:08 > Okay. So then I don't see any reason to continue
15:11:10 that until next week. I don't think it's any big

15:11:13 issue. Do you think it's a big issue?
15:11:15 > No. I just --
15:11:16 > Whenever. That's fine.
15:11:18 > Is that okay with you, Kevin?
15:11:20 > KEVIN White: That's absolutely fine.
15:11:21 > We're going to make a motion that Miss Ferlita come
15:11:25 back on December 7 so she can get the okay.
15:11:27 > I'll second it. Okay. So then -- okay. So deal
15:11:31 with that now, just move it until December 9th? Okay.
15:11:35 Item 24.
15:11:35 > I'm sorry?
15:11:36 > December 7th.
15:11:37 > 7th?
15:11:38 > If you can.
15:11:40 > That would be December the 7th.
15:11:43 > Exactly what I said, December 7th.
15:11:46 > All right. So that's a motion.
15:11:47 > Second.
15:11:48 > I have a motion and second. All in favor say aye.
15:11:54 > And then I'll move item 23 and item 25, and that's
15:11:58 it. Motion and second, all in favor of the motion say
15:12:01 aye.

15:12:02 > Thank you. Move items 29 through 34.
15:12:06 > Motion and second all in favor of the motion say aye.
15:12:12 Opposed nay.
15:12:14 > All right. We've gone into --
15:12:23 > I think you did 59. Is that correct?
15:12:26 > We did 59?
15:12:27 > All right. We going to do our public hearing for the
15:12:32 second readings. Anyone in the public going to -- we
15:12:38 need to open number 60 to --
15:12:46 > So move. We have a motion and a second. Open items
15:12:52 60 to 63. All in favor of the motion say aye. Anyone
15:12:55 in the public want to speak on item 60?
15:12:58 > Move to close.
15:13:00 > I have a move and a close.
15:13:05 > Miss Ferlita would you read that, please?
15:13:07 > Read what?
15:13:08 > 60.
15:13:11 > ROSE FERLITA: Move to adopt the following ordinance
15:13:13 upon second reading. An ordinance in the City of Tampa
15:13:18 transportation ordinance, article 1, administrative
15:13:22 provisions. Division three section 25-48 fee authority
15:13:26 and types, permits inspections and authority and

15:13:30 conditions for issuance of a permit to install and
15:13:33 administer crowd management queuing lines of public
15:13:36 right of way in the Ybor City historic strict,
15:13:38 authorizing the establishment of fees, forms and
15:13:41 procedures for the petition of a queuing line permit
15:13:44 and renewal in the manner set forth in the City of
15:13:46 Tampa code of ordinances chapter 25, providing
15:13:52 conditions that protect and preserve pedestrian
15:13:55 friendly design principles and compliance with the
15:13:57 Americans with disabilities act of 1990, as amended,
15:14:01 published in volume 42 of the United States code,
15:14:03 beginning as section 12101, providing for repeal of all
15:14:08 ordinances in conflict providing for severability and
15:14:11 providing an effectivity date.
15:14:14 > Roll call.
15:14:15 > Miller.
15:14:15 > Yes.
15:14:16 > Harrison?
15:14:17 > Yes. Ferlita?
15:14:18 > Yes.
15:14:18 > White?
15:14:19 > Yes.

15:14:19 > Motion carried with Dingfelder absent at vote.
15:14:24 > Is there anyone in the public that wants to speak on
15:14:26 item 61? Motion to second and close all in favor of
15:14:28 the motion say aye. Opposed? Miss Alvarez?
15:14:35 > Move to adopt the following ordinance upon second
15:14:37 reading, an ordinance of the City of Tampa, Florida
15:14:39 creating article 7 of chapter 26 of the city code
15:14:44 relating to grease management defining terms
15:14:47 authorizing uniform maintenance and monitoring
15:14:52 requirements of food service facilities for controlling
15:14:54 the discharge of grease, authorizing the registration
15:14:56 and regulation of grease haulers for the controlling
15:14:59 the discharge of grease, providing for an appeal for
15:15:03 the denial or revocation of grease hauler registration,
15:15:07 authorizing establishment of rates, fees and charges
15:15:09 for the grease management. Providing for enforcement
15:15:12 procedures and legal remedies. Providing an effective
15:15:15 date.
15:15:15 > We have a motion.
15:15:17 > Dingfelder? Saul-Sena?
15:15:20 > Yes.
15:15:21 > Alvarez?

15:15:21 > Yes.
15:15:22 > Miller?
15:15:23 > Yes.
15:15:23 > Harrison?
15:15:24 > Yes.
15:15:25 > Ferlita?
15:15:27 > Yes.
15:15:29 > White?
15:15:29 > Yes. Motion carried with Dingfelder absent at vote.
15:15:34 > Anyone in the public want to speak on item 62?
15:15:37 > Move to close.
15:15:38 > Second.
15:15:39 > All in favor of the motion say aye. Mr. Harrison?
15:15:45 > You got to keep up, too. You ain't going nowhere.
15:15:48 Number 62.
15:15:50 > SHAWN HARRISON: Thank you. Move to adopt the
15:15:52 following ordinance upon second reading, an ordinance
15:15:54 of the City of Tampa, Florida pertaining to the grease
15:16:00 management program, adding chapter 26 utilities article
15:16:04 one administrative provisions section 26-31 K, utility
15:16:07 rates, fees and charges, to add the categories of waste
15:16:09 water's grease management program service for which

15:16:12 rates and fees can be charged, providing for repeal of
15:16:15 all ordinances in conflict, providing an effective
15:16:19 indicate.
15:16:20 > Dingfelder? Saul-Sena? Alvarez?
15:16:23 > Yes.
15:16:23 > Miller.
15:16:24 > Yes.
15:16:25 > Harrison?
15:16:25 > Yes.
15:16:26 > Ferlita.
15:16:27 > Yes.
15:16:27 > White?
15:16:28 > Yes.
15:16:29 > Motion carried with Dingfelder absent at vote.
15:16:32 > Is there anyone in the public that wants to speak on
15:16:35 item 63?
15:16:36 > Motion to close.
15:16:37 > All in favor say aye.
15:16:38 > Thank you, Madam chairman. I'd like to move the
15:16:42 following ordinance. An ordinance in the City of
15:16:44 Tampa, Florida pertaining to the amendments to chapter
15:16:48 26 utilities, article I administrative provisions,

15:16:51 section 26-53 administrative authority providing for
15:16:54 appeal of all ordinances in conflict providing for an
15:16:58 effective date.
15:16:58 > Have a motion and a second. Roll call?
15:17:01 > Dingfelder? Saul-Sena?
15:17:04 > Yes.
15:17:05 > Alvarez?
15:17:06 > Yes.
15:17:06 > Miller?
15:17:07 > Yes.
15:17:08 > Harrison?
15:17:08 > Yes.
15:17:09 > Ferlita?
15:17:10 > Yes.
15:17:11 > White?
15:17:12 > Yes.
15:17:18 > Motion carried with Dingfelder absent at vote.
15:17:21 > Do you have that resolution?
15:17:23 > Can we not go back to item number three and six.
15:17:38 > Item three.
15:17:40 > Number three travels with 64 and 66. I believe you
15:17:44 were looking for number 11, the resolution on number

15:17:47 eleven.
15:17:47 > We need to pass the resolution on number love.
15:17:52 > Second.
15:17:54 > Is there anyone in the public going to speak on items
15:17:57 64 through 67, please stand and raise your right hands.
15:18:10 (Oath given by Clerk)
15:18:11 >> Move to open.
15:18:13 > So moved.
15:18:13 > Motion and second. All in favor of the motion say
15:18:15 aye.
15:18:16 > Yes, council, I asked that all written communications
15:18:20 relative to today's hearings which have been available
15:18:22 for public inspection in city council's office be
15:18:25 received and filed into the record at this time.
15:18:27 > Are you sure?
15:18:29 > I'd like that if that's possible. Are there
15:18:32 anything?
15:18:32 > Madam clerk?
15:18:33 > There's nothing to receive and file?
15:18:39 > Okay. Secondly, council, for the record I'm stating
15:18:41 my request that you disclose any ex parte
15:18:45 communications prior to the vote. And ladies and

15:18:47 gentlemen, please, when you state your name, reaffirm
15:18:53 for the record, per council's rules, that you have been
15:18:56 sworn. I will interrupt you. I don't like to do that.
15:19:00 I'm placing this sign here to remind you. Thank you.
15:19:09 > Is there anyone in the public want to speak on item
15:19:12 64?
15:19:13 > Move to close.
15:19:13 > Wait. Wait.
15:19:14 > I thought you talked about this already.
15:19:18 > Just once.
15:19:19 > Second shot, right?
15:19:22 > Good afternoon, Madam chair, members of the council,
15:19:25 I'm Graham Caruthers. I just wanted for the record
15:19:30 to -- I have been sworn for the record, sorry,
15:19:32 Mr. Shelby.
15:19:34 > MARTIN SHELBY: Okay. And before we do that --
15:19:37 before we do that, I'm sorry, Mr. Caruthers, once
15:19:41 burned, twice shy. You have under council rules the
15:19:46 opportunity to make a presentation prior to hearing
15:19:49 public comment. Do you wish to add anything
15:19:51 additional, or do you wish to rely on the evidence
15:19:53 that's been prior -- entered prior to this point?

15:19:57 > I would like the opportunity to speak after
15:20:00 Mr. Caruthers speaks because I believe there is a full
15:20:07 record. I don't know what he's going to say. I'd like
15:20:10 to reserve my time and speak after.
15:20:12 > I'm going to ask that you reserve your time that you
15:20:16 wish to do full rebuttal. I'm going to ask you that
15:20:19 then limit your rebuttal to whatever is presented today
15:20:21 and not introduce any additional evidence. Thank you.
15:20:26 > Was that --
15:20:27 > That probably took longer than what I was going to
15:20:30 say. I just wanted to state for the record that to the
15:20:34 extent this property is included as part of the
15:20:36 rezoning that will be up in a moment or two as item
15:20:39 number 66, we object to the proposal.
15:20:43 > Okay.
15:20:47 > Would you prefer that I speak now or wait until --
15:20:51 > Anyone else in the public want to speak on item
15:20:54 number 64?
15:20:56 > Move to close.
15:20:57 > You don't want to speak then? You wanted to wait to
15:21:01 see if anybody else was going to speak.
15:21:02 > I was going to wait --

15:21:05 > No one else wanted to speak.
15:21:07 > I would just respond to all his comments at once
15:21:10 rather than popping up and down, but it's up to you.
15:21:14 > One at a time.
15:21:14 > He's already spoken. No one else want to speak.
15:21:17 > We're taking these items individually now, it
15:21:20 appears.
15:21:20 > Okay.
15:21:21 > I'm sorry. I apologize for being out of the room.
15:21:23 This is a question for staff. Staff, did the issues
15:21:26 raised by Mr. Caruthers about the commitment by
15:21:31 petitioner to pipe the ditch and a timetable for that,
15:21:33 were those addressed somewhere?
15:21:41 > Julie Cole with the legal department, the question of
15:21:45 the commitment piping the ditch is contained as a
15:21:49 requirement in the rezoning and is part of the real
15:21:51 estate contract which is a separate and apart item, but
15:21:54 for total understanding in which the property owner and
15:21:58 the city will have to agree on the size, location,
15:22:02 extent, et cetera, of the pipe, and if that agreement
15:22:05 doesn't occur, it would nullify the transaction. It is
15:22:08 specifically not contained as part of the vacation

15:22:10 because it is the city who is the petitioner for the
15:22:14 vacation.
15:22:14 > I thought it was part of the vacating in regard to a
15:22:20 reverter, that if it doesn't get done in five years, it
15:22:23 will revert.
15:22:24 > That isn't my understanding. However, Roland may
15:22:28 know more than me so hopefully he is listening and he
15:22:31 will come down, and the petitioner may --
15:22:34 > If I may, I'll go ahead and try to clear it up
15:22:37 because it is confusing. The real estate purchase
15:22:39 contract, which is number three on your -- and I'm
15:22:42 sorry, Andrea Zelman, 501 East Kennedy, and I have been
15:22:47 sworn. Let me just say very quickly, Councilman
15:22:50 Fe