09:11:02 Tampa City Council
09:11:04 Thursday, February 15, 2007
09:11:08 9:00 a.m. sessiongermane
09:15:32 >>MARY ALVAREZ: It gives me great pleasure to
09:15:34 introduce Joe Pusateri, who is also a member of the
09:15:43 Ybor City rotary and is my fellow Rotarian.
09:15:46 We are honored today to have father Joe give us our
09:15:50 Please remain standing for the pledge of allegiance.
09:15:53 >> Thank you, Mary.
09:15:57 Madam Mayor, counselors, brothers and sisters, let us
09:16:05 Lord God and father, today, we pray with and for the
09:16:10 City Council of Tampa and for the people of Tampa whom
09:16:13 they serve.
09:16:15 We pray in a spirit of Thanksgiving.
09:16:19 We thank you for our geographical location.
09:16:21 We thank you for good weather, and especially for
09:16:24 delivering us from hurricanes in 2006.
09:16:28 We ask that this blessing continue in 2007.
09:16:32 We pray for our Mayor Pam Iorio especially at this
09:16:37 time as she mourns the passing of her dear father.
09:16:41 Grant comfort to her and her family.
09:16:43 We pray for her administration.
09:16:45 We pray for her vision of the city.
09:16:48 We pray for the initiatives and projects she has begun
09:16:51 especially for the success of their riverwalk project.
09:16:57 We pray for all the City Councilors and their staffs.
09:17:02 Grant them wisdom, compassion and understanding of the
09:17:05 needs of the citizens.
09:17:06 We pray for all the employees of this city, especially
09:17:10 those in harm's way, like the police and fire
09:17:15 We pray for all the citizens, especially those serving
09:17:18 in the military, in Iraq and Afghanistan.
09:17:22 We pray for the poor, the unemployed, the
09:17:25 underemployed, the undereducated, the underprivileged,
09:17:29 and the homeless.
09:17:31 We pray for our business community.
09:17:33 We pray for good health and security for all our
09:17:37 We pray a for visitors and tourists to the city.
09:17:40 May the city benefit from their visits.
09:17:42 And may they benefit for coming here.
09:17:45 We pray for the upcoming election.
09:17:48 Guide the voters to choose wise, dedicated and
09:17:51 inspired counselors to guide the orphan going progress
09:17:54 and development of Tampa.
09:17:56 May the decisions made at this meeting and of the
09:18:00 whole city and glorify you, father.
09:18:02 May all these blessings a bid.
09:18:06 We make these prayers in humble hearts in each his or
09:18:09 her own way.
09:18:12 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
09:18:27 >>CHAIRMAN: Roll call.
09:18:36 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Here.
09:18:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
09:18:37 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Here.
09:18:38 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Here.
09:18:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
09:18:40 >>FRANK REDDICK: Here.
09:18:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:18:41 At this time, Mary Alvarez will present the Officer of
09:18:46 the Month.
09:18:56 >>MARY ALVAREZ: It's a pleasure this morning to
09:19:09 introduce the Officer of the Month, master patrol
09:19:12 officer Patrick Ferguson.
09:19:13 And to do the honors, Chief Hogue.
09:19:21 >> Good morning, council.
09:19:22 And thank you once again for making opportunity and
09:19:28 time to honor our Officer of the Month, and our
09:19:30 Officer of the Month for February 2007 is officer pat
09:19:52 >>> My wife Regina.
09:19:56 >> Pat is a master patrol officer, which is indicative
09:20:00 of an officer that is tenured, who has seen about
09:20:04 everything there is to see in the police business.
09:20:06 He's an individual who can handle anything from a
09:20:10 traffic citation to a murder case and is fully
09:20:15 And the reason that we selected pat as our Officer of
09:20:21 the Month is because one day here recently, he was
09:20:25 doing his main duty, which is he's part of our traffic
09:20:30 unit and I am proud to say that traffic crashes came
09:20:33 down 14% in a large part due to that traffic unit.
09:20:36 And officer Ferguson's efforts.
09:20:40 But that's not the reason that we are recognizing him
09:20:42 here today.
09:20:44 He was doing his duties on Hillsborough Avenue,
09:20:47 looking for traffic violators, when a report of a
09:20:51 stolen car went out and a pursuit was engaged by
09:20:54 another officer.
09:21:02 The suspect jumped out of the car and ran into the
09:21:05 neighborhood and we as we normally do set up a
09:21:07 perimeter in order to catch the suspect.
09:21:11 Officer Ferguson left his primary duties to assist
09:21:15 other officers, went over to the area, and actually
09:21:19 located what was later determined to be the suspect.
09:21:22 But it wasn't quite as simple as that.
09:21:27 When you're locating suspects, a lot of people in the
09:21:30 area, a lot of people look cellular, and it takes a
09:21:33 little bit of interview skills.
09:21:35 Once you stop somebody to kind of feel them out.
09:21:37 And, of course, criminals are notorious for lying to
09:21:42 the police.
09:21:43 And this was no exception.
09:21:45 He lied to the police about what he was up to.
09:21:47 But because we do have a tenured office we are a lot
09:21:50 of experience he basically saw through the lies and
09:21:53 took him into custody as a suspect.
09:21:56 Come to find out, the individual that he apprehended
09:22:00 was in fact the driver of the stolen car.
09:22:03 But more than that he was an absolutely notorious
09:22:08 thief that's known to the police department in the
09:22:09 City of Tampa, and is responsible for documenting over
09:22:13 100 crimes that have occurred in this city.
09:22:15 And because of officer Ferguson's actions, that
09:22:20 individual is now incarcerated and is no longer in
09:22:24 Tampa causing havoc on the streets.
09:22:28 So that's why we recognized him for that significant
09:22:33 catch and his efforts in the city.
09:22:36 It's my pleasure to present officer Ferguson.
09:22:39 [ Applause ]
09:22:44 >>MARY ALVAREZ: And that is why the Tampa City Council
09:22:49 commendation is presented to officer Pat Ferguson in
09:22:54 recognition of his dedicated service he has been
09:22:58 select as police Officer of the Month of February
09:23:01 His outstanding investigative skills and intuition led
09:23:05 to an arrest which blocked more crimes from occurring,
09:23:09 for keeping our city safe, the Tampa City Council
09:23:11 hereby commends you on a job well done.
09:23:20 We have some corporate members.
09:23:25 >> Danny Lewis from Bill Currie Ford.
09:23:35 It's even more pleasing when it's someone that our
09:23:38 leadership is familiar with, who has worked in our
09:23:41 area, done such a great job for us.
09:23:43 So Fergie, as we call you, there's your watch.
09:23:49 >> Thank you.
09:23:54 >> Lowry Park Zoo.
09:23:57 On behalf of the zoo, thank you so much for all the
09:23:59 work you do.
09:24:00 And take a day off and come visit.
09:24:09 >> Steve Stickley representing Stepp's towing service.
09:24:13 Officer Ferguson or master patrol Ferguson, on behalf
09:24:16 of the staff at Stepps towing service we would like to
09:24:20 thank you for a job well done.
09:24:25 And a certificate for Outback.
09:24:28 [ Applause ]
09:24:35 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Now you're in trouble.
09:24:40 They've known for a couple days I was going to be here
09:24:42 on behalf of a couple of folks.
09:24:43 So I promised not to embarrass them.
09:24:45 But I can tell you this.
09:24:47 They are very dedicated in what they do.
09:24:50 I have known them for some time.
09:24:52 And I don't know of anyone who puts more into their
09:24:56 jobs than Regina and Patrick.
09:24:58 They are very good people.
09:24:59 They are very dedicated to the quality of life for
09:25:02 And I'm very proud to say that I know them well.
09:25:06 On behalf of a couple of different folks, and on
09:25:10 behalf of Bern's steakhouse and Liss development
09:25:13 company, we are providing you with a $100 gift
09:25:15 certificate to Bern's steakhouse.
09:25:17 On behalf of the Hillsborough County towing
09:25:20 association, we are providing you with a $50 gift
09:25:23 certificate to your choice of Outback, or Carrabas,
09:25:27 and on behalf of your close personal friends, you get
09:25:30 another $50 gift certificate to go to Outback or
09:25:36 In addition to that, Bryn Allen studios is going to
09:25:40 provide you with an opportunity to have your pictures
09:25:41 taken and have the family portrait done.
09:25:45 Just call and make an appointment.
09:25:47 So congratulations again.
09:25:48 And I can tell you these are dedicated folks and they
09:25:50 are committed to making Tampa a great place.
09:25:55 [ Applause ]
09:26:02 >>> I just want to thank the City Council for giving
09:26:04 us all the tools we need to get the job done.
09:26:09 I would like to thank the community for these generous
09:26:11 gifts, the support we get from Chief Hogue, major
09:26:16 Bennett, and recognizing me for this award.
09:26:21 I really appreciate it.
09:26:22 There are a lot of police officers that do a lot of
09:26:24 things out there that go unrecognized and we all
09:26:27 recognize that it's very rewarding and I really
09:26:30 appreciate it.
09:26:33 I just want to again thank my wife for putting up with
09:26:36 all the weird hours.
09:26:37 And we have flex days off a lot of times and it's
09:26:42 really rough on the family but I appreciate her
09:26:44 Again I just want to thank everybody for all these
09:26:47 generous gifts.
09:26:49 Thank you.
09:26:50 [ Applause ]
09:26:55 >>GWEN MILLER: At this time Mr. Dingfelder will give a
09:27:07 commendation to the plant volleyball team.
09:27:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: good morning, Madam Chair, council.
09:27:43 I never felt so short.
09:27:48 Good morning.
09:27:49 We are so proud this morning to have in fantastic team
09:27:56 from plant high school.
09:27:57 Plant has been in the paper quite a bit this year.
09:27:59 But this team I think won the state championships
09:28:02 first before the football item.
09:28:07 So we should have had them here a longs time ago and
09:28:09 we have been remiss.
09:28:11 We have the coach LeAnn Taylor.
09:28:18 I am going to let you introduce your assistant
09:28:22 >> Good morning.
09:28:25 We have ALI McCree, a freshman.
09:28:30 Linebaugh, a freshman.
09:28:32 Jennifer, a senior attending Davidson college.
09:28:36 Kay, freshman.
09:28:38 Charlotte, sophomore, freshman.
09:28:46 LEAH Jordan, freshman.
09:28:56 Kelly, Jr.; committed to Duke.
09:28:59 Kristin William Williamson going to Miami.
09:29:01 Melanie Holme, Jr.
09:29:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And coach Kelly, not only did they
09:29:15 win state championship class 5-A but coach Taylor was
09:29:20 selected 5-A coach of the year.
09:29:23 We are so proud that you could join us here today.
09:29:26 And we have a commendation.
09:29:27 Then I want you to say a few words about your tough
09:29:30 battle to make it where you did.
09:29:34 And one thing I wanted to say before you get through
09:29:37 with this, you have freshmen, sophomores, juniors.
09:29:41 I think the state has to be worried for the next
09:29:43 couple of years if it were to continue.
09:29:46 Okay, here we go.
09:29:49 Tampa City Council is proud to honor the state
09:29:51 championship plant hi school volleyball team for their
09:29:54 outstanding achievements this year.
09:29:56 Not only did coach Taylor's team win the 5-A title but
09:30:01 the panthers owned all-state and all-American honors
09:30:04 for a number of team players and she earned coach of
09:30:07 the year honors.
09:30:10 Captured their first state title while compiling an
09:30:14 outstanding record of 28-2.
09:30:21 The volleyball dynasty has been created in South
09:30:27 Kelly Cabnot, I met your dad last week for UT.
09:30:33 That's quite a din nasty, too.
09:30:36 And capped off outstanding careers by being named
09:30:39 all-state and all American for their outstanding play
09:30:42 while senior Kelly read was named 13 all-state and
09:30:45 Jennifer Chamblee was given honorable mention.
09:30:51 You challenge your players both physically and
09:30:53 mentally and challenge yourself as well.
09:30:57 But a state title and selection for dairy farmers
09:31:03 state coach of the year.
09:31:05 Tampa City Council is proud to recognize your efforts
09:31:07 and the success of plant hi school, its student
09:31:09 athletes and its coach in achieving such honors.
09:31:12 You're a credit to the entire City of Tampa.
09:31:18 [ Applause ]
09:31:21 >>> Thank you for bringing us hear.
09:31:23 That is amazing words spoken about this wonderful
09:31:30 I work for this team six days out of the week.
09:31:32 I really come up with a good plan and try and
09:31:35 challenge them.
09:31:37 We have worked as a team.
09:31:38 We focused on success.
09:31:40 We read about Michael Jordan and his philosophy and
09:31:45 his focus.
09:31:46 And for my first state championship, I couldn't be
09:31:50 more proud, and this group is just so special to me.
09:31:53 I joined plant as an assistant coach.
09:31:59 So just to see them grow up and to see it all come
09:32:02 full circle is an awesome experience.
09:32:06 They represented the city so beautifully in east
09:32:12 Lakeland that they are just awesome.
09:32:17 We have an all American, academic all American.
09:32:23 We finished 32nd in the nation.
09:32:27 And, you know, special group in my heart.
09:32:30 And e should see more good things in the future.
09:32:34 Thank you very much.
09:32:35 [ Applause ]
09:32:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I want to add on a personal note.
09:32:45 A message to all parents, because I think you just
09:32:48 said it.
09:32:48 If you can create success on the ballfield, in my
09:32:52 household my daughter was a violinist. That transfers
09:32:57 to success in school.
09:32:58 I think you guys will agree that once you are
09:33:01 succeeding in another part of your school life, you
09:33:03 enjoy school, you love school, you come into school
09:33:05 for, you know, a good reason.
09:33:07 And then you are going to succeed also in your
09:33:10 And I think that all of these extracurricular
09:33:13 activities are fantastic.
09:33:14 We should support them in the arts, on the ballfield,
09:33:17 and in every possible way and it makes the whole
09:33:20 school experience much better.
09:33:21 But congratulations again.
09:33:24 Go panthers.
09:33:26 [ Applause ]
09:33:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I attended plant high school many
09:33:38 yourself ago before title 9 and girls athletic
09:33:43 activities were limited and it's great to see the
09:33:45 quality of athleticism and to see how beautifully they
09:33:49 have taken those opportunities and soared with them.
09:33:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Is angel Paris in the audience?
09:34:01 We will now present a commendation to her.
09:34:30 It is an honor for me to recognize angel Paris.
09:34:36 She was outstanding.
09:34:38 She was in a car going home.
09:34:41 And she stopped and saved her and she got bitten on
09:34:46 the arm.
09:34:51 I present this commendation to her.
09:34:53 Presented to angel Paris in grateful recognition of
09:34:56 your heroic effort during the dog attack of a
09:35:00 nine-year-old on January 23rd, 2007.
09:35:05 You put yourself in danger to save this child.
09:35:08 In addition to being bitten on several areas of your
09:35:12 The boy was trying to fight off the dog and you
09:35:14 observed the incident.
09:35:19 You stopped your vehicle so you could help.
09:35:21 Your action possibly saved the child's life.
09:35:23 Therefore, the members of City Council commend you and
09:35:26 say to you and thank you for your kind heart and
09:35:32 I present this to you.
09:35:36 [ Applause ]
09:35:41 >> The world is waiting for you, you have to say
09:35:48 >>> That was a child and I have three children of my
09:35:51 And I would be devastated if someone did not get out
09:35:54 of the car and help my child.
09:35:55 So that's mainly the reason why I got out because it
09:35:58 was a little boy getting bitten by the dogs.
09:36:00 And I had if I had to jump out of the car again, I'll
09:36:04 do it.
09:36:05 >>MARY ALVAREZ: You were very brave.
09:36:07 Thank you very much.
09:36:08 [ Applause ]
09:36:17 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Thank you. The next commendation is
09:36:19 to Alpha Kappa alpha sorority.
09:36:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Remove that from the agenda.
09:36:24 I am going to present it to them on Saturday.
09:36:30 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Motion and second.
09:36:31 (Motion carried).
09:36:32 >>CHAIRMAN: We now go to our staff sign-in sheet.
09:36:36 We have Mark Huey.
09:36:40 Huh hue economic development administrator.
09:36:44 Here to give a report on the court house, on the star
09:36:52 condition and reuse.
09:36:55 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is there any other new business?
09:36:57 Do you wish to change that at all, Mr. Huey?
09:37:00 Is that your purpose of signing it?
09:37:04 >>> Yes.
09:37:06 Hold that, please.
09:37:08 >>GWEN MILLER: We just go by the numbers.
09:37:13 We'll call you.
09:37:14 Barbara LePore.
09:37:21 >>BARBARA LEPORE: I'm here on item number 70 which is
09:37:26 a zoning request.
09:37:34 I would like to continue this to the 22nd of this
09:37:37 month, which will be next Thursday.
09:37:42 Number 30.
09:37:51 >>SHAWN HARRISON: She wants to continue for one week.
09:37:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Have you told petitioner?
09:37:57 >>BARBARA LEPORE: Yes.
09:38:02 March 1st is the next time.
09:38:05 >> So moved.
09:38:06 >> Second.
09:38:06 (Motion carried).
09:38:06 >>BARBARA LEPORE: And the next item on the agenda is
09:38:09 number 34, which is wet zoning WZ 07-51.
09:38:15 The petition of the application on the 2nd of this
09:38:20 They are requesting a waiver of the 15 days filing
09:38:27 >> So moved.
09:38:27 >> Second.
09:38:28 >>SHAWN HARRISON: This is in two days.
09:38:38 >> The event is in two days.
09:38:39 >>BARBARA LEPORE: Yes.
09:38:41 Asking for February --
09:38:43 >>GWEN MILLER: They are asking to waive it.
09:38:44 >>SHAWN HARRISON: We'll have the herring on whether we
09:38:48 are going to do this.
09:38:51 >> It's on the consent docket.
09:38:52 >>GWEN MILLER: So you have to waive it and then vote.
09:39:03 >> It's under Mr. Fletcher's committee.
09:39:05 >> Should when pull this for specific conversation?
09:39:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If council wishes to pull from the
09:39:14 consent docket for discussion, then council can.
09:39:18 It requires, I believe, it would have to be pulled
09:39:21 because it does require the waiver of the 15 day rule.
09:39:23 So council is going to have to make a determination
09:39:25 whether it wishes to do that at this point in time or
09:39:29 wishes to pull it from the consent docket and discuss
09:39:31 it later.
09:39:32 It's council's choice how it wishes to address it.
09:39:35 What is council's pleasure?
09:39:37 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Move to remove it from consent.
09:39:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And where.
09:39:42 Where in the agenda does council wish to discuss it?
09:39:46 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Under the committee report.
09:39:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:39:48 (Motion carried).
09:39:51 >>GWEN MILLER: All right.
09:39:59 Jill Finney.
09:40:03 >> Here to request a continuance of --
09:40:09 >>GWEN MILLER: What's the number?
09:40:11 >>> It's for next --
09:40:13 >>GWEN MILLER: It's a walk-on?
09:40:15 >>> Yes.
09:40:15 For the February 22nd hearing.
09:40:17 Asking for a continuance to March 22nd.
09:40:20 And a waiver of all associated fees.
09:40:23 There was an administrative error.
09:40:28 >> So moved.
09:40:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Question.
09:40:31 What is this for?
09:40:32 >>> A continuance.
09:40:33 >> For what?
09:40:34 >>> There was an administrative error.
09:40:36 >> For a land use?
09:40:39 >>> Yes.
09:40:40 >> Is the property owner going to contact all the
09:40:42 neighbors again?
09:40:45 >>> That's why we wanted to do it today instead of
09:40:48 next Thursday nature because if he does it today then
09:40:50 he will have time to make it for the March 22nd,
09:40:53 the 30-day notice?
09:40:55 >> Is it understood the property owner will contact
09:40:57 all the adjacent property owners?
09:41:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry, this wasn't brought to my
09:41:04 I have not discussed this with Ms. Cole.
09:41:07 Clerk, if you can tell me, is this a noticed public
09:41:09 hearing for next week?
09:41:11 >>THE CLERK: This item was scheduled to be heard by
09:41:12 council on next Thursday night's agenda.
09:41:15 Z 07-04, for property on the petition, for property at
09:41:21 4620 and 8404 east -- the affidavit has been filed.
09:41:30 It will have to be rescheduled to be reheard.
09:41:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I remember this petition.
09:41:43 It was a little complex.
09:41:45 There were some neighbors involved.
09:41:46 This is the first time that -- I mean, I love the idea
09:41:54 so people don't have to come down to find out it's
09:41:56 been continued.
09:41:57 Is this something that we want to start?
09:42:01 What are the rules involving -- this situation?
09:42:07 >>> I would agree it's out of order.
09:42:09 If you wish it to be known it will not be heard next
09:42:12 week and brought up on Thursday night's agenda I guess
09:42:14 it would be appropriate to notify the people who have
09:42:17 expressed interest that it will not be heard.
09:42:19 But I would believe it would be inappropriate to
09:42:21 address this issue now as it is a noticed public
09:42:24 >> Because the city staff made a mistake?
09:42:26 Is that why you are bringing it up?
09:42:28 >>> There is a discrepancy between the county's
09:42:30 address records and the city's records for the
09:42:33 So he notified according to the property appraiser's
09:42:40 That's not what the city has for the address.
09:42:42 So it's our error.
09:42:45 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I believe -- Ms. Cole, do
09:42:49 you wish to address that?
09:42:50 I don't think it's appropriate to take this up today.
09:42:52 >>JULIA COLE: I can address at the very minimum the
09:42:54 problem with the notice.
09:42:56 I don't know if that's appropriate for me to address
09:42:58 it at this point.
09:42:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I don't believe it's appropriate to
09:43:02 grant continuance for a public hearing that's set for
09:43:04 next week when it is not --
09:43:07 >>JULIA COLE: no, it would be considered out of order
09:43:09 for next week, but they can reschedule it.
09:43:11 The council can reschedule it today on the record with
09:43:15 a minimum of 30 days so they can be renoticed.
09:43:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: So in effect they are coming here
09:43:22 today to ask petitioner to be saved a week's time
09:43:25 because of what they perceive as administrative error.
09:43:30 >>> I hear that is what the request is.
09:43:31 And I think it's probably not an administrative error,
09:43:34 if I can just take a step back. The way the code is
09:43:37 written, it provides that you receive your
09:43:39 information, received the notice, and notice to the
09:43:44 property appraiser's office.
09:43:45 It appears the property appraiser's office in this
09:43:47 instance had the wrong addresses.
09:43:49 So there's a technical compliance with the code,
09:43:52 meaning the code has been met for purposes of notice.
09:43:54 But we know that there's an actual notice problem.
09:43:56 So to put this in a little bit of a difficult
09:44:00 So technically the notice requirement has been met but
09:44:03 we know they are wrong.
09:44:04 So what I am hearing staff ask for is to allow to be
09:44:07 rescheduled for one month from today by motion of
09:44:12 council today.
09:44:13 When we get to next week it would have to be pulled
09:44:16 off the agenda because we are determining it is out of
09:44:19 order to be heard because we know that throws an
09:44:21 actual notice problem.
09:44:24 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I don't have any problem it with.
09:44:25 Just make sure that you notice the Temple Crest civic
09:44:29 I think this is Temple Crest, that we are doing this,
09:44:32 so they don't bring a bus load of people down here and
09:44:35 all have to leave after two minutes.
09:44:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:44:40 (Motion carried)
09:44:52 We are going to approve the agenda.
09:44:54 Are there any items we need to pull from the agenda?
09:44:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, if I can.
09:44:59 I am going to direct council's attention to number 13
09:45:02 on the agenda.
09:45:06 I believe the petitioner and council are present.
09:45:10 This is file V 06-60.
09:45:13 And this was continued from last Thursday evening's
09:45:20 Council, this is an issue that was brought back to
09:45:24 council today, because there were two votes in favor
09:45:28 and two votes opposed.
09:45:30 Council, I had the opportunity to speak with the
09:45:33 petitioner's representative.
09:45:36 And I have had an opportunity to review the file.
09:45:39 It is my opinion that the petitioner, given the
09:45:43 circumstances, should be given an opportunity to make
09:45:47 their full case, and take the opportunity under the
09:45:50 rules to take as much time up to 30 minutes as
09:45:53 required in order for them to preserve their due
09:45:56 process rights.
09:46:00 My understanding, council --
09:46:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I might be able to help on this
09:46:05 real quick.
09:46:06 I have not had a chance to review this tape.
09:46:09 Mr. Shelby asked me to make time to review it and I
09:46:13 apologize to all council and the petitioner and
09:46:15 anybody else that's here.
09:46:17 I have not had time to review the tape.
09:46:19 And I think it would be appropriate for me to review
09:46:21 the tape.
09:46:22 In the past you have situations like that and you have
09:46:24 gone for an additional week or so to give people a
09:46:29 chance to do that.
09:46:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I appreciate you saying that, but it
09:46:31 goes beyond that.
09:46:33 To refresh council's recollection, there was no public
09:46:36 opposition, and therefore it went directly to council
09:46:40 for questions.
09:46:40 I did have an opportunity to review the transcript.
09:46:43 The petitioner, in effect, did not have the
09:46:46 opportunity to present their case.
09:46:50 And in that there are objections by council,
09:46:53 obviously, as a result of this vote, I believe the
09:46:57 petitioner should have the right to do that.
09:46:59 It would be my recommendation to reopen the public
09:47:02 hearing, to continue the public hearing, and if the
09:47:06 petitioner wishes to make a request for a particular
09:47:08 date, I believe in my discussion was petitioner's
09:47:11 representative there would be no objection to
09:47:13 renoticing the public hearing to allow -- to afford
09:47:17 the petitioner the due process rights that is
09:47:20 required, regardless of what the council's decision is
09:47:23 ultimately going to be.
09:47:24 I believe Mr. Weaver is present to address council on
09:47:27 that issue.
09:47:29 >>> Thank you very much, Mr. Shelby and Mr.
09:47:33 East Jackson Street, for senior housing downtown, just
09:47:36 six blocks north of here and would love to be fully
09:47:38 heard by all of you and answer all of your questions.
09:47:41 The people that would be helping present would be
09:47:43 available, because of commitments, on April 12th
09:47:47 for a morning meeting like this one at which we could
09:47:49 fully renotice and be fully heard, and give Mr.
09:47:53 Dingfelder and others a chance to see the tape and be
09:47:56 glad to answer questions.
09:47:57 It's six blocks north of here.
09:47:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think that's an excellent
09:48:01 But I also would love -- I would love -- even though
09:48:05 the only thing we are addressing is the housing
09:48:07 waiver, I would appreciate a full discussion of the
09:48:10 entire proposed project at that time.
09:48:14 >> We'll focus the parking waiver and any other
09:48:16 questions you have appropriate to that on April
09:48:19 12th in the morning, if that's acceptable to you.
09:48:22 Ms. Cole?
09:48:24 >>> You answered my question.
09:48:25 I was going to ask the applicant to indicate whether
09:48:27 or not they were prepared to do that.
09:48:28 They are not required to.
09:48:31 But they indicated that they are prepared to do that.
09:48:37 >>> They won't know all the answers on April 12th.
09:48:40 But can certainly answer anything in the parking
09:48:42 waiver and anything that has been accomplished
09:48:44 regarding the other project.
09:48:47 After you design around the parking waiver, we'll
09:48:49 answer every question we can on April 12th.
09:48:53 >> I have a question.
09:48:55 >>FRANK REDDICK: Mr. Weaver, is it possible that can
09:49:03 be done sooner than April 12th?
09:49:06 >>> We tried to do so but it appeared that would be
09:49:08 the best time on a Thursday to get key people into
09:49:11 town to try to answer your questions.
09:49:13 If he would get a parking waiver we'll did do design.
09:49:16 Therefore the people who need to speak will be people
09:49:18 who will be doing that design if we get the parking
09:49:20 waiver so April 12th is the only Thursday they
09:49:23 could do.
09:49:25 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to see if anyone in the
09:49:28 public came this morning to speak on this item.
09:49:30 Anyone that came to speak on this item?
09:49:32 We need a motion.
09:49:35 >> The motion appropriately at this time would be to
09:49:37 reopen the public hearing.
09:49:39 >> So moved.
09:49:40 >> Second.
09:49:40 (Motion carried).
09:49:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Now continue it to April 12th at 10
09:49:48 >>> I need to clear a conflict, file my appropriate
09:49:58 >> My spouse is associated with the firm involved in
09:50:01 the project.
09:50:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Again, Mr. Weaver, if you wouldn't
09:50:04 mind for the record, April 12th at 10 a.m., would
09:50:07 you have any objection to renoticing the appropriate
09:50:10 >>> No, sir, we will not.
09:50:11 We will renotice.
09:50:12 >> Thank you very much.
09:50:16 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
09:50:17 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
09:50:21 >> Second.
09:50:22 (Motion carried).
09:50:23 >> Any other item to pull from the agenda?
09:50:26 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Move to approve the agenda.
09:50:27 >> Second.
09:50:28 (Motion carried)
09:50:30 68 we now go to our unfinished business, item number
09:50:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just a reminder.
09:50:39 I'm sorry to interrupt.
09:50:41 Council, just a reminder that per council's rules, the
09:50:46 staff reports are limited to five minutes per agenda
09:50:49 And the clerk is going to be setting the time timer
09:50:53 for that amount.
09:50:56 >>> Dennis Fernandez, historic preservation manager.
09:50:58 I'm here to give you an overview of the interstate and
09:51:01 historic preservation trust fund.
09:51:03 I have a short PowerPoint.
09:51:07 We have a new incentive available in the historic
09:51:10 It would be known as the interstate historic
09:51:12 preservation, revolving trust fund.
09:51:14 The trust fund is composed of two main components, a
09:51:19 loan fund and grant fund.
09:51:25 Interstate and need for expansion prompted the
09:51:27 expansions of I-275 and I-4 that you see ongoing
09:51:31 The expansion has impacted three of our national
09:51:33 registered historic districts in Ybor City, West
09:51:36 Tampa, and Tampa Heights.
09:51:39 The result of that, there were a number of structures
09:51:42 being relocated over the last few years.
09:51:47 35 in Ybor City, and two in West Tampa.
09:51:53 This has led to an unprecedented effort to reestablish
09:51:56 neighborhoods in these areas which were impacted
09:51:58 originally by the interstate and are being impacted
09:52:00 again today.
09:52:03 The properties which have been relocated constitute
09:52:06 the interstate historic preservation trust fund which
09:52:09 offers low-interest loans and grants to qualified
09:52:12 applicants within these areas.
09:52:14 The moneys can be used for structure, stabilization,
09:52:19 mechanical equipment replacement and restoration of
09:52:22 architectural details.
09:52:23 To qualify you must be located in the Ybor City, Tampa
09:52:25 Heights, or West Tampa national registered historic
09:52:29 And we have that information available through our
09:52:31 office and on our web site.
09:52:34 Individuals for the loan program can be either
09:52:36 commercial or residential, property owners, not for
09:52:40 profit organizations, cities, counties or other
09:52:43 municipal government.
09:52:44 And there are two cycles annually.
09:52:46 Our next deadline is April 3rd.
09:52:50 Once again on our web site we've a wealth of
09:52:53 The loans are available for up to $200,000 for a term
09:52:56 not to exceed 20 years.
09:52:58 And currently there is a balance of $2,788,556 in that
09:53:05 And we have actually expended over $600 that you
09:53:10 The evaluation criteria is generally applied to
09:53:13 preservation-related projects in these eligible areas.
09:53:17 We do have a requirement that the properties are at
09:53:19 least 50 years or older.
09:53:20 And there is a mechanism being created for emergency
09:53:25 We have a number of projects currently funding, the
09:53:29 Morgan factory, we have done a number of exterior and
09:53:32 interior renovations.
09:53:33 This is a commercial property in West Tampa that was
09:53:36 recently funded and is going through the permitting
09:53:40 The grant program is a little more limited than the
09:53:44 loan program.
09:53:45 The properties have to be homesteaded properties, and
09:53:47 they do have to specify certain income qualifications.
09:53:50 And that is once again available through our program
09:53:53 There are two cycles annually, and the grants in the
09:53:56 amounts of 1500 to $15,000 are available.
09:54:00 We have approximately 235,436 in the grant fund.
09:54:06 And that fund is generated through the proceeds of the
09:54:09 entire trust fund, through the interest that's
09:54:12 accumulating in that trust fund.
09:54:14 The criteria does need to be a preservation related
09:54:19 And there is a requirement that the structures are at
09:54:21 least 75 years or older for the grant fund.
09:54:24 Once again, there's a number of preservation-related
09:54:28 activities including restoration, rehabilitation, and
09:54:31 essentially actions which eliminate the threat of
09:54:35 Our proposals are required to adhere to the secretary
09:54:38 of interior standards.
09:54:40 And we do have our contact information on the screen
09:54:43 for you.
09:54:43 You see our phone numbers on our web site.
09:54:46 And we encourage individuals to contact our office so
09:54:48 that we can identify if they are in our areas that are
09:54:53 Thank you.
09:54:53 I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have.
09:54:55 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Thank you, Dennis.
09:55:00 This has been a long time in coming.
09:55:02 And how are you advertising this revolving loan fund
09:55:07 and the grant fund?
09:55:09 Because I keep hearing from different people that, you
09:55:11 know, we would like to do something.
09:55:13 I said, well, there is one.
09:55:15 But they don't know how to access it.
09:55:19 >>DENNIS FERNANDEZ: Well, we have been doing targeted
09:55:21 mail. This is a relatively new program.
09:55:23 It's been in place for a year with the loan fund and
09:55:25 we actually haven't even reviewed our first cycle
09:55:27 grant application yet.
09:55:33 We have been mailing through social organizations
09:55:35 within the area, taking opportunities like this and
09:55:38 before the HPC, the A.R.C., to have the information
09:55:42 out to the public and any group that's interested can
09:55:44 contact the office.
09:55:45 I'll be happy to either meet with their organization
09:55:48 or with them individually and explain the process.
09:55:53 >> Have you contacted the West Tampa CDC on this?
09:55:56 >>> I have.
09:55:56 >> Have you gotten any feedback?
09:55:59 >>> We have been providing them with the application
09:56:00 packets for each cycle.
09:56:02 And they have sent some individuals to us for
09:56:07 application questions and processing and whatnot.
09:56:10 We are working with them.
09:56:11 >> And how many applications for the grants have you
09:56:15 received so far?
09:56:16 >>> We received 7 applications, five of which were
09:56:21 determined to be eligible under the program
09:56:25 >> What about in Ybor City?
09:56:27 Are you working with the chamber over there?
09:56:29 Who are you working with?
09:56:31 >>> We are working with the chamber, the neighborhood
09:56:34 organizations within that area, the museums society as
09:56:38 Any organization really that is able to identify the
09:56:42 individuals which may be eligible.
09:56:44 And we are starting to see a more diverse scope of
09:56:46 applications coming in.
09:56:48 Initially, most commercial property owners are taking
09:56:53 advantage of the loan program.
09:56:54 We are starting to see it now into the homestead
09:56:57 properties and mixed use properties as well.
09:56:59 >> What's your current interest rate on the loans?
09:57:04 >>> The interest rate is consistent with the treasury
09:57:06 And it's been somewhere around 5% for the loans that
09:57:09 we have been reviewing.
09:57:10 >> So is it an ARM or adjustable --
09:57:15 >>> It's fixed for a period that they determine.
09:57:17 Up to 20 years.
09:57:18 >> Okay.
09:57:21 How many in the Ybor City area have you gotten to be
09:57:25 in the low end of grant program?
09:57:27 >>> We have actually approved two within the Ybor City
09:57:32 national registered district for the loan.
09:57:35 We have three of the applications from the grant
09:57:39 program located within Ybor City as well.
09:57:43 >> Great.
09:57:44 This is wonderful.
09:57:44 Thank you.
09:57:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
09:57:49 Great questions, Ms. Alvarez.
09:57:50 Just to piggyback on what she's asked.
09:57:53 Is the information available in Spanish?
09:57:56 >>> It is.
09:57:56 We do have Spanish-speaking representatives in our
09:57:59 office as well that can assist with questions.
09:58:02 >> I would think it would be really helpful to have
09:58:04 the basic advertising available in Spanish, and
09:58:08 perhaps La Gaceta or some other newspaper to share
09:58:14 that, and also make this information available to the
09:58:17 ship program, the senior home improvement program
09:58:20 because perhaps some of the people who are in
09:58:22 desperate need of repairs would be -- who are living
09:58:25 in their homes to be able to use the grant program to
09:58:28 make some of those basic repairs.
09:58:30 I know there's a really long waiting list.
09:58:33 And this is exactly what we need to do.
09:58:35 And I'm eager for the money not to be in the bank.
09:58:38 I'm eager to see it spent on the historic buildings.
09:58:41 Because it's so much better to make the repairs sooner
09:58:44 rather than later to take care of roof leaks and
09:58:48 things like that.
09:58:48 Thank you.
09:58:49 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Are you putting up brochures?
09:58:54 Do you have brother courthouse on this?
09:58:56 >>DENNIS FERNANDEZ: We have an information sheet.
09:58:58 When don't actually have a brochure.
09:59:00 I mean, we were actually waiting till the grant
09:59:04 program was actually firmly established, which is very
09:59:07 close to being so.
09:59:08 And we'll do a brochure at that time.
09:59:10 >> I think a brochure to put in the various places
09:59:13 that we are we already talked about.
09:59:15 But in Spanish, too.
09:59:17 Great idea, Ms. Saul-Sena.
09:59:18 But having it in English and in Spanish putting them
09:59:21 out, so that way people know because a lot of people
09:59:24 don't know how to access the computer, or where to go.
09:59:29 So I think it would work a lot better, too.
09:59:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Ask for a report --
09:59:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Question, Mr. Reddick?
09:59:38 >>FRANK REDDICK: This is based on income -- the loan
09:59:41 is based on income level?
09:59:43 >>> The loan fund is really based on the condition of
09:59:45 the historic property.
09:59:46 There is a requirement that the applicant, at least,
09:59:51 attempt to have a more adequate source of financing
09:59:53 prayer to coming to us.
09:59:55 There is more of a likelihood they will be funded
09:59:59 through us if they have not been funded through a
10:00:01 conventional source of funding.
10:00:06 >> It seems like a lost disparity and the current
10:00:11 dollar amount.
10:00:12 Why is this not allocated in the grant category versus
10:00:18 the loan?
10:00:18 >> The loan fund through the memorandum of agreement
10:00:21 between the Florida Department of Transportation, the
10:00:23 City of Tampa.
10:00:24 The funds were to go to preservation oriented
10:00:28 What was created was the revolving loan fund so that
10:00:30 the funds are being given to the identified projects
10:00:34 and then are coming back within the loan funds so we
10:00:37 are not exhausting the loan fund and we are able to
10:00:39 also -- as long as we are able to.
10:00:42 The grant portion is generated off the interest from
10:00:46 that loan fund.
10:00:47 So in the interest bearing accounts and individuals
10:00:52 that have received loans or making their payments,
10:00:54 that interest is being separated out into a separate
10:00:56 fund, and we are able to offer the grants with those
10:01:02 >> One last question.
10:01:03 If a person met all the criteria, and they wanted to
10:01:10 rehab their home through your program, and had income
10:01:13 of $50,000 or less income, would they be eligible?
10:01:19 >>DENNIS FERNANDEZ: I'm not sure of the exact
10:01:21 The income qualifications are consistent with the
10:01:23 senior housing program.
10:01:26 SHIP limits.
10:01:28 I believe for one individual it's slightly lower than
10:01:30 the 50,000 but there were two individuals in the
10:01:32 household, in the 50,000 would suffice.
10:01:38 >>MARY ALVAREZ: One more question.
10:01:40 You said that the loan is up to $200 that you.
10:01:45 >>> That's correct.
10:01:45 >>: Suppose you had a cigar factory that really,
10:01:48 really needs the help in renovating.
10:01:52 $200,000 is a drop in the bucket.
10:01:54 Are you making provisions that they can add more to
10:01:56 that, or how do you do that?
10:01:59 >>> The limit is 200,000 per cycle.
10:02:02 So what we are doing, a good example is the moreman
10:02:11 factory that received two $200,000 loans and is in the
10:02:14 process for a third.
10:02:16 And we have been targeting different issues, the
10:02:18 windows, the elevators, the ADA accessibility,
10:02:23 environmental issues throughout the building.
10:02:25 So with the exception of emergency funding, the cap is
10:02:30 set at $200,000 but they can come back for multiple
10:02:33 >> So what's a cycle?
10:02:35 >> There's two cycles a year.
10:02:38 The current cycle is the deadline is April 3rd.
10:02:41 That's when the paperwork is due.
10:02:44 It is a competitive program so we have to have a
10:02:46 program deadline.
10:02:47 Then there will be another cycle offered in the fall,
10:02:49 most likely in October.
10:02:51 That's when our cycles have been falling.
10:02:52 >> Very good.
10:02:54 Thank you so much.
10:02:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:02:57 Number 6.
10:03:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: As a follow-up to that, I would
10:03:04 like to have a report back in two months on how the
10:03:07 brochure is coming.
10:03:08 60 days.
10:03:09 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Second.
10:03:10 just a clarification.
10:03:16 Do you request a written report or do you wish a
10:03:19 personal appearance?
10:03:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: If the brochure is complete it will
10:03:24 If it's not complete I want a person to say why it
10:03:26 isn't complete.
10:03:28 >>MARY ALVAREZ: They can send me one.
10:03:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
10:03:38 (Motion carried).
10:03:43 >>> Jan McLane with the legal department here on item
10:03:46 number 6 to give you a status of the request, two
10:03:51 weeks ago, council members, southeastern Pasco County.
10:03:58 Both myself and John McKirchy of our office have done
10:04:02 at this point in time a rather cursory review on the
10:04:06 significant amount of documents.
10:04:09 I went to the Florida department of environmental
10:04:11 protection and reviewed the document.
10:04:13 The various two applications, one for construction and
10:04:16 one for operation.
10:04:17 They were received in October.
10:04:20 There is a 23-page request for additional information
10:04:23 from the department of environmental protection to the
10:04:27 I spoke with the reviewer at FDC yesterday and they
10:04:32 had just received a response to that 23 pages.
10:04:39 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Were you through?
10:04:40 I didn't mean to interrupt.
10:04:42 >>> I can answer questions as I go.
10:04:44 >>SHAWN HARRISON: No, finish up.
10:04:45 >>> I was kind of giving you an overview of where it
10:04:48 is in the process, what the status of it is.
10:04:50 So at this point DEP is reviewing the responses to
10:04:54 their request for additional information.
10:04:56 This process takes a significant amount of time.
10:04:58 This is a proposal for a landfill, approximately
10:05:04 1,000-acre parcel and the landfill would be about 90
10:05:08 The concern is different issues, but for the city's
10:05:14 attorneys concerns, we would want to monitor the
10:05:17 continuing application review.
10:05:20 We are submitting two letters.
10:05:22 One to Pasco County, because they have an application
10:05:24 for additional use change.
10:05:26 And to Florida department of environmental protection
10:05:29 as a party to receive notices with regard to the
10:05:33 continuing activities of this application.
10:05:39 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Where exactly in southeastern Pasco
10:05:42 County is this going to be?
10:05:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Half a block from your house.
10:05:53 [ Laughter ]
10:05:57 >>> I don't know if you can see it.
10:06:02 This is Dade city.
10:06:03 This is Zephyrhills.
10:06:09 >> Where are we?
10:06:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 301 connects, too.
10:06:13 >>> And this is the area of the proposed landfill over
10:06:17 East of 75.
10:06:18 East of 301.
10:06:21 This is 98 in this direction.
10:06:28 It's southeast.
10:06:29 But a little more north than south.
10:06:34 >> Where is the city line?
10:06:37 >>> Down here.
10:06:38 The concern is -- and it's been expressed by numbers
10:06:42 of folks -- is the approximation of the proposed use,
10:06:48 in the watershed, the Withlacoochee in Pasco over the
10:06:53 There's additional studies that have been asked for by
10:06:56 DEP, and there has been some interest expressed by
10:07:01 this through the water management district.
10:07:03 It's in the early stages of this review.
10:07:06 I Ned toll you, the DEP estimated at left six months
10:07:10 to a year before any action would be taken.
10:07:12 So that's why we are going to continue to monitor.
10:07:15 >> Any other questions?
10:07:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Mrs. Saul-Sena, then Mr. Dingfelder.
10:07:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Are you the attorney who has taken
10:07:23 a look at the site --
10:07:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's in litigation, but, Jim --
10:07:37 Jen, I have no doubts about your legal ability to
10:07:39 monitor this and deal with all the documents and
10:07:42 everything else.
10:07:43 But I wonder from a staff perspective, from an
10:07:46 engineering, environmental engineering, groundwater
10:07:48 perspective, do we have -- who would you be working
10:07:52 with to renew these documents as they come in, and
10:07:55 take a look at them, see if we agree with the various
10:07:57 other agency comments?
10:07:59 Or do we need outside help for that?
10:08:04 >>> We have not anticipated hiring any consultants to
10:08:07 help review these documents.
10:08:08 At this point in time I would rely on agency personnel
10:08:11 to a certain degree and then as issues become very
10:08:15 clear that we need to bring somebody out to do that
10:08:18 review, that I would recommend that to Mr. Smith.
10:08:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
10:08:23 It might be premature right now since you say it early
10:08:26 in the process but I think that we should continue to
10:08:29 hear back from you on a quarterly basis, because it is
10:08:32 a critical area.
10:08:33 This is a watershed.
10:08:35 It's basically bumps up against the green swamp which
10:08:40 flows into the Hillsborough River, and Mr. Fletcher, I
10:08:43 appreciate you bringing this to our attention
10:08:45 So I am going to ask to continue this matter for three
10:08:48 months, and continue to hear reports from you every
10:08:51 three months until further action.
10:08:56 >> Second.
10:08:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
10:08:59 Mr. Fletcher?
10:09:00 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I'll support the motion.
10:09:01 Actually, I was going to just thank Ms. McLane for
10:09:07 working on this.
10:09:07 She was already on it.
10:09:09 They have been working very closely at a lot of issues
10:09:12 protecting the source water for the Hillsborough
10:09:15 reservoir, and I think she's doing a great job, and we
10:09:18 are very lucky to have her at the city.
10:09:20 I just want to make that comment.
10:09:22 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:09:24 (Motion carried)
10:09:27 Item number 7.
10:09:34 Receive and file.
10:09:35 >> So moved.
10:09:36 >> Second.
10:09:36 (Motion carried).
10:09:37 >> Item number 8.
10:09:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Looks like there is a request from
10:09:58 the legal department to continue.
10:10:00 Or is that from January?
10:10:01 Oh, that's from January.
10:10:05 >>> Captain Honeywell, Tampa Police Department.
10:10:09 Second commander, East Tampa.
10:10:11 Reporting on police perspective.
10:10:34 Back in January you requested us to look into Apollo
10:10:37 We were dispatched there 52 times.
10:10:41 Out of those 52 times, 6 were for loud noise, from the
10:10:46 neighbors, 15 were for calls for disturbance inside
10:10:50 and outside the bar.
10:10:54 26 of the calls were unrelated to Apollo south.
10:10:59 On page 4, 5, 6, you received the facility, the pay
10:11:05 phone on the outside.
10:11:07 People walk up and made complaints about disturbance
10:11:12 elsewhere in the community, not the bar.
10:11:14 And there were five alarm calls there.
10:11:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
10:11:21 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Is there a way we can ask Verizon or
10:11:27 someone to remove that pay phone from there?
10:11:31 I don't know if they can do that or not.
10:11:33 Mr. Shelby, do you know?
10:11:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Where is the pay phone exactly
10:11:42 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Located in front of the business.
10:11:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I can make inquiries and report back
10:11:47 to you on that.
10:11:48 I don't have an answer off the top of my head, no.
10:11:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Reddick?
10:11:55 >>FRANK REDDICK: You stated it's mostly calls, poem
10:12:00 coming from a pay phone, they were calling about a
10:12:06 wrecker service?
10:12:07 >>> Yes.
10:12:07 There's a wrecker service. The wrecker driver may be
10:12:11 out on a call and can't get there.
10:12:13 So they call us.
10:12:15 Or they don't have enough identification, they want to
10:12:17 get something out of their car and the company won't
10:12:19 allow them to get it.
10:12:20 >> Oh, okay.
10:12:22 How many complaints have we received from the
10:12:27 neighbors within an adjacent area?
10:12:30 >>> Six for loud noise.
10:12:32 >>FRANK REDDICK: Just six for loud noise?
10:12:34 In your professional opinion, this is --
10:12:41 >>> That's insignificant complaints.
10:12:43 >> Now I noticed on weekends, around the corner from
10:12:49 here, there seems a lack of parking for this facility
10:12:56 on weekends.
10:12:57 There seems to be a lack of parking.
10:12:59 People parking all up and down the road, and adjacent
10:13:04 homeowners areas, on the side road.
10:13:12 I guess the wrecker companies are making a lot of
10:13:17 That's one of the problems removing all those cars.
10:13:19 Have you gotten more complaints from residents about
10:13:23 all the parking on the side roads?
10:13:27 >>> We haven't received any.
10:13:30 >>FRANK REDDICK: My final question is, in previous
10:13:43 years there's been a lot of disturbance, is that
10:13:46 >> Excuse me?
10:13:47 >>> In previous years there has been disturbances at
10:13:49 the place.
10:13:50 >>> Yes.
10:13:50 >> So the ownership worked cooperatively?
10:13:53 >>> Yes.
10:13:55 >> So from the police department standpoint you
10:13:56 haven't had many problems?
10:13:58 >>> Right.
10:13:59 >> Okay.
10:14:07 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Mr. Shelby, I think maybe a letter
10:14:11 from the chairman to the owner of the establishment to
10:14:16 request removal of that pay phone might help a little
10:14:23 I'd like to make a motion.
10:14:25 >> Second.
10:14:25 (Motion carried).
10:14:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, captain Honeywell.
10:14:31 Item number 9, please.
10:14:41 >>KIRBY RAINSBERGER: Legal department.
10:14:42 Regarding the door to door solicitation issue.
10:14:45 As council is aware I previously filed a written
10:14:47 response on issues that were presented to me.
10:15:01 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I haven't read the report.
10:15:03 But could you give us a little synopsis of what you
10:15:10 >> Actually, I'm kind of in the dark as to precisely
10:15:13 what council wants to do.
10:15:15 I'm aware of the one complaint about door to door
10:15:19 And apparently that was a situation where an item was
10:15:22 purchased and never delivered.
10:15:23 And the issue was the nondelivery, not so much the
10:15:27 knock on the door.
10:15:29 So I'm kind of looking forward to direction from
10:15:32 council as to exactly which way you want to go with
10:15:35 this issue.
10:15:36 Once I know that I might be able to give you a little
10:15:39 legal guidance in that regard.
10:15:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder brought this to our
10:15:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yeah, this is the door to door.
10:15:50 It's a coincidence but I had a gentleman, one of these
10:15:53 so-called magazine vendors knock on my door about
10:15:56 three days ago.
10:15:58 And he took out some sort of certificate.
10:16:06 Do we give certificates that authorize people to do
10:16:11 >>KIRBY RAINSBERGER: I'm not aware that the city
10:16:13 actually does that.
10:16:13 In terms of an identification certificate, simply to
10:16:18 identify a door to door solicitor, and there is of
10:16:21 course a business receipt that might be required.
10:16:29 As you know a lot of he's the these people represent
10:16:32 charitable organizations.
10:16:33 They have reporting requirements in Florida statutes
10:16:35 right now, and touched on that in the previously filed
10:16:39 There is also a requirement that applies to some
10:16:42 solicitors that they must register with the clerk of
10:16:45 the circuit court.
10:16:47 That, of course, is independent than anything the city
10:16:51 >> I just think it's clear that there's a lot of
10:16:53 bogus, you know, teenagers or 20-year-olds and it's
10:16:59 bogus, it's baloney.
10:17:04 He says, well, one of your neighbors, she just wrote
10:17:07 me a check, and showed me this fake check from New
10:17:10 York City, you know, for $500 to buy magazines, and,
10:17:16 you know, he's going on and on and trying to snow me
10:17:20 on this.
10:17:21 I said, now what?
10:17:22 Why don't you wait here a few minutes and let's see
10:17:24 what TPD has to say.
10:17:26 So I went in to call TPD and he vaporized very
10:17:30 But I just think that as a community, you know, we
10:17:33 need to be on our guard about this, because it's
10:17:35 clearly a rip-off.
10:17:37 And if we can get help from legal and from TPD and
10:17:41 have help from council to keep them out of our city, I
10:17:46 think we should.
10:17:48 >>KIRBY RAINSBERGER: Obviously in circumstances like
10:17:49 yours a phone call to TPD would get you a response.
10:17:54 And if that person can be located and that person is
10:17:57 attempting to defraud citizens on TPD can get involved
10:18:01 under existing ordinances in the statutes.
10:18:05 That doesn't address the knock on the door that some
10:18:07 people object to.
10:18:09 But it would address the fraudulent activities that
10:18:13 apparently was the original complaint that came to
10:18:25 Reread well, any nonprofit organizations, does not
10:18:32 allow a chartable organization to -- allow you to go
10:18:37 out and solicit contributions from the public.
10:18:40 But you must be registered with the State of Florida.
10:18:43 So I don't know.
10:18:48 He should have a certificate from the State of Florida
10:18:52 under chapter 496 that allows you to continue, that
10:18:59 allows to you go out and allows to you present that
10:19:05 certificate, or go door to door.
10:19:07 So maybe we need to look at the 496 statute, State of
10:19:13 Florida, regarding solicitation.
10:19:17 >>> I'm sure there are some violations of that statute
10:19:20 out there.
10:19:20 But my personal perception is that there are probably
10:19:24 a lot more worthy organizations and individuals that
10:19:27 are in compliance with that statute which we don't
10:19:36 have a noticed to address or hinder in any way their
10:19:45 >>FRANK REDDICK: But there are legitimate
10:19:48 organizations that have that certificate.
10:19:52 >>KIRBY RAINSBERGER: If they are charitable
10:19:55 organizations as opposed to for-profit.
10:20:00 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I don't know whether there's anything
10:20:01 we can do about this, because this is a seasonal
10:20:06 Just like those that come in and go door to door and
10:20:11 say we want to fix your roof.
10:20:12 You have to be aware of what you're doing.
10:20:14 And tell them, no, when don't want any and just go on.
10:20:19 But to try to find these people, we don't have the
10:20:23 resources or the manpower for the city to go out and
10:20:30 >> Make it's part of our job to make people aware.
10:20:33 Everybody should be aware of these rip-offs.
10:20:37 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Right.
10:20:38 Like I said it's a seasonal deal.
10:20:40 I don't think there's anything we can do about it.
10:20:42 So just be aware.
10:20:44 Citizens, be aware that there are bad people out
10:20:49 >>GWEN MILLER: If you think it's not the right kind of
10:20:51 person call TPD like we say.
10:20:54 When you see suspicious, call the police if you know
10:21:00 they are not the right kind of person.
10:21:02 Thank you.
10:21:04 Item number 10.
10:21:10 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
10:21:11 We have some information to hand out to you.
10:21:14 And we have some new maps we just got this morning so
10:21:19 that map I gave you yesterday, Mr. Harrison, has some
10:21:22 If you will pass those out.
10:21:24 There she is.
10:21:25 And I have got some bullet points here that I can
10:21:29 share with you that will help guide us through this,
10:21:32 that we'll try to copy as brief as possible.
10:21:57 The first issue of business that I can talk to you
10:21:59 while you are distributing the map and the bullet
10:22:02 point issues I will try to cover.
10:22:04 We are strongly recommending against banishment.
10:22:06 We think there are some problems with banishment as an
10:22:09 approach that could render any ordinance that is
10:22:12 ultimately drafted to challenges.
10:22:15 However, I would be happy to elaborate on those issues
10:22:17 if you like but I would rather do that in private so
10:22:20 that when don't have any litigation issues
10:22:22 unnecessarily exposed or discussed.
10:22:28 What I would like to do is briefly walk you through
10:22:30 this map.
10:22:30 Because I think this is very important to
10:22:33 understanding what the situation -- what the context
10:22:38 is, and then having you assist us in attempting to
10:22:42 find out what is the best approach to take from here.
10:22:45 And I will put one on the Elmo for purposes of those.
10:22:49 You may want to follow along.
10:22:53 That first map which is in your upper left hand corner
10:22:56 is something I don't think any of you have seen before
10:22:59 because I have not seen until this morning.
10:23:00 That essentially shows all of the residential areas in
10:23:04 the county.
10:23:06 Now, I need to caveat this by saying this was done by
10:23:09 the county.
10:23:09 Some of the information, for example, Mr. Harrison,
10:23:12 the ones we spoke about yesterday were percentages
10:23:14 based on -- we now have a breakdown that shows cities
10:23:22 and I believe Temple Terrace that shows what the
10:23:26 impact of these things will be on their jurisdiction.
10:23:28 I should also thank the county for their generosity
10:23:32 and their assistance in this regard.
10:23:34 They have spent innumerable hours on preparing these
10:23:37 maps and going over the issues, and they have been
10:23:39 very cooperative.
10:23:40 Some people sometimes think we don't get along as well
10:23:45 as we should with the county.
10:23:46 We certainly do. We cooperate on a lot of issues and
10:23:48 they have been very helpful.
10:23:50 Now the second man -- of course that first map is just
10:23:54 for the purpose of providing you a baseline.
10:23:56 The second map I will show you is the 1,000 feet
10:24:00 buffer approach, which is the approach currently
10:24:04 embedded in state law.
10:24:07 Let me get that centered a little bit.
10:24:13 There we go.
10:24:14 You can see we added to this map another feature as
10:24:17 well, something to talk about, and that is added what
10:24:19 they call a child safety zone.
10:24:21 And that is shown in pink.
10:24:24 And those are the areas the county is contemplating
10:24:28 having an area where irrespective of where you live,
10:24:31 these are areas you cannot go if you are in fact a sex
10:24:36 offender or sex predator.
10:24:38 So you may not live within a thousand feet of a park
10:24:43 but in this instance you cannot be within 300 feet of
10:24:47 a park.
10:24:47 Yes, sir.
10:24:50 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: What I had read and heard was not
10:24:53 that you couldn't pass through but you couldn't --
10:24:59 >>> I was going to elaborate on that.
10:25:01 I want to at least let you know what the map is
10:25:04 These are areas called child safety zones.
10:25:06 >> Which map?
10:25:08 >>> That's the second map in the upper right.
10:25:10 It shows you the 1,000-foot setback.
10:25:13 Now, what you received was both the original map and
10:25:18 the updated map.
10:25:20 I'm referring to the updated map.
10:25:21 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Page one or page two?
10:25:24 >>> It's page two.
10:25:26 So if you follow along on page 2.
10:25:29 You got page 1 for your information but really page 2
10:25:32 is what I'm speaking to.
10:25:33 In the upper left is the one where I showed you all
10:25:35 the residential areas.
10:25:37 Now bear in mind the methodology of this, it needs to
10:25:40 be delved into a little more detail.
10:25:45 Those areas that show residential I think are existing
10:25:48 It is quite possible that some of those areas that are
10:25:50 in white both in the city and the county could be
10:25:54 I believe that is the methodology.
10:25:56 And in going back over to the one in the upper right
10:25:58 which is what I am describing now, it shows you
10:26:02 essentially the 1,000-foot setback.
10:26:05 And if you look in that box, that recommendation
10:26:07 legend, it's very difficult to read but it says, that
10:26:11 is 35% of the residential area in Hillsborough County
10:26:14 is excluded.
10:26:15 And 58, if I'm reading that correctly, 58% of the city
10:26:21 residential area is excluded on 1,000 feet.
10:26:25 That's the current, under the state law.
10:26:27 Now, if you will look down in the lower left-hand
10:26:30 corner, and I'll change this map for the people here.
10:26:45 We can get these in a blown-up form later.
10:26:47 We just got these this morning.
10:26:49 In the lower left-hand corner the map shows you the
10:26:51 exclusion areas if we use a 1500 feet measurement.
10:26:56 That is again residential.
10:26:58 And the pink areas still show up as the "child safety
10:27:04 That type of --
10:27:06 (Bell sounds).
10:27:11 I'll walk you through each of these and probably have
10:27:13 two minutes to summarize.
10:27:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
10:27:15 Two minutes.
10:27:18 >>DAVID SMITH: If you look at that legend, it
10:27:20 indicates in that instance 77% of the city's
10:27:23 residential areas are excluded.
10:27:26 Finally, if you look at the lower right, this is the
10:27:37 2500-foot exclusionary.
10:27:39 If you look at the legend you can see the City of
10:27:41 Tampa, approximately 92% of the residential areas.
10:27:47 Going back to my bullet point, in following my concern
10:27:51 with regard to banishment we are also concerned about
10:27:54 the fact that banishment.
10:27:56 I think if you look at the lower right-hand corner,
10:27:58 the 2500 feet, throws a pretty strong case that is
10:28:01 going to be de facto banishment.
10:28:03 The 1500 feet which I believe was 77%, you know, you
10:28:08 have got almost a quarter of the area in which you can
10:28:11 We have no bright lien test on this.
10:28:15 We think we can defend that.
10:28:16 We think the more easy it is to defend it and these
10:28:19 the policy call that is unfortunately uniquely within
10:28:22 your purview but we think we can defend either one.
10:28:25 What I would like to also point out to you is we
10:28:27 recommend in our ordinance that we list the parks,
10:28:30 which is what Gainesville did.
10:28:31 We recommend that because we think the private parks
10:28:34 also need to be listed.
10:28:36 I do not believe the private parks are included in the
10:28:39 county's methodology here in this mapping.
10:28:42 So we really have a little work to do on the mapping
10:28:45 but I think this gives you a general idea what we are
10:28:47 talking about.
10:28:48 We suggest you not include bus stops in the areas
10:28:52 Bus stops are changeable.
10:28:54 We think there's a notice issue with regard to the bus
10:28:56 And I don't think those are mapped either:
10:29:01 >> Are you talking about the school bus stops?
10:29:05 >>> Yes, ma'am.
10:29:08 Also, another thing we are suggesting that you
10:29:10 consider is focusing on the most dangerous of the
10:29:13 individuals at issue.
10:29:15 I'm referring to those identified as sexual predators
10:29:17 as opposed to sexual offenders.
10:29:19 That's a much smaller class.
10:29:21 It's about 10% of the total group, is my
10:29:25 In Hillsborough in the City of Tampa.
10:29:27 One thing it allows us to do is to be more aggressive
10:29:30 in the other things we do.
10:29:31 I think we have the ability, if it's clearly a
10:29:34 regulatory scheme, to reach a little further back in
10:29:36 time to govern those who have been previously
10:29:40 So, again, these are a related calculus.
10:29:45 But I think if we narrow our focus and focus on those
10:29:49 people who are most of a threat, one of the reasons
10:29:50 the law enforcement folks like this is because they
10:29:53 think that's something they can accomplish.
10:29:55 It is not accomplishable for a 500 or 1200 sex
10:29:59 offenders, but for maybe 50 sexual predators it is.
10:30:03 (Bell sounds).
10:30:05 And the last couple of points.
10:30:07 The child safety zones that we talked about that the
10:30:09 county is considering is also being contemplated and
10:30:11 there's some state legislation.
10:30:13 Those zones are areas where people may not be allowed
10:30:16 to loiter and prowl.
10:30:18 Those terms are used because there's a state statute
10:30:20 that uses those terms.
10:30:22 And that gives us the advantage of case law in that
10:30:27 and interprets what that means and also gives us the
10:30:29 advantage of not filing first amendment rights.
10:30:31 As now parks are also public FORA so we have to be
10:30:35 careful that we don't have a violation and the whole
10:30:39 thing gets thrown out on grounds such as those and
10:30:42 obviously when don't want to infringe on anybody's
10:30:45 first amendment rights.
10:30:46 We think we should continue because we have strong
10:30:48 restrictions on drinking and application through the
10:30:51 And one thing we would -- the last thing we would say,
10:30:54 since there is legislation pending in the state, if we
10:30:58 move forward with this ordinance pursuant to your
10:31:00 direction, that when do so with a face that allows to
10:31:03 us keep an eye on what they are doing, because we
10:31:06 wouldn't want to be having conflicting -- very
10:31:10 difficult to enforce provisions, and we don't want to
10:31:14 do something that's also unnecessary and redundant.
10:31:18 We don't know.
10:31:19 We suspect from what we have seen the state
10:31:22 legislature will not preempt the area.
10:31:24 There are a couple of things you are going to have to
10:31:26 I think no matter what.
10:31:28 And I don't think they address private parks.
10:31:30 We are going to have to have something -- we are going
10:31:33 to have to do something to make this applicable in the
10:31:35 City of Tampa, simply because of the areas and the
10:31:38 types of folks you want to address.
10:31:40 So that having been said that's kind of an update on
10:31:43 the legislature.
10:31:44 May or may not pass anything this year but this is the
10:31:46 second year it's being considered.
10:31:48 There is a lot of interest in this.
10:31:50 I expect we will get something out of the state
10:31:54 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Mr. Smith, is Hillsborough County
10:31:56 contemplating passing the ordinance?
10:32:00 >>DAVID SMITH: My understanding and the latest on
10:32:03 Hillsborough County is they are looking at the child
10:32:04 safety zone.
10:32:05 I think exclusively.
10:32:07 That's yet to be vetted.
10:32:09 Yet to be reviewed by the Hillsborough County
10:32:13 They may have a variety of views on that but I think
10:32:15 they are going to stay with the state 1,000 fountain
10:32:17 restriction and then add in the child safety zones.
10:32:20 >> So they are going to wait until the state comes up
10:32:24 with something, too?
10:32:25 Or are they going to go ahead and pass whatever they
10:32:27 think they have for the child safety zones?
10:32:29 They are not waiting for the state?
10:32:31 >>> I don't think they are going to wait on the state
10:32:33 for the child safety zones because the state isn't
10:32:35 addressing -- well, they will if represent Glorioso's
10:32:40 bill is approved but right now do not address child
10:32:43 safety zones so they may go ahead and wait on the
10:32:46 We hate to represent their positions because I have
10:32:48 not had those communications.
10:32:49 >> Also, we received -- he would all received a letter
10:32:55 from the nursing homes.
10:32:59 They are having a problem with it, too.
10:33:02 Can you talk about that?
10:33:03 >>> Yes, ma'am.
10:33:07 We have had some communication.
10:33:08 I believe Julie has had some conversation was
10:33:11 individuals who have indicated that the protections
10:33:13 afforded to children should be extended to the elderly
10:33:16 and the disabled.
10:33:17 One of the things -- and that's certainly an argument
10:33:21 that makes a lot of sense.
10:33:23 We need to will at, however, in our mapping is what
10:33:26 our impact is, in that regard, and that may determine
10:33:31 distances. The problem is these are a series of
10:33:33 moving parts.
10:33:34 And when one part moves, other consequences flow from
10:33:39 So it's very difficult to get a bead on exactly what
10:33:43 we can do, until we get a little bit narrower focus on
10:33:47 some of the key ingredients.
10:33:49 Who is protected, who is regulated.
10:33:51 Then we can look at the areas of exclusion.
10:33:54 Then we can give you a map that we think we can
10:33:58 >> Knowing sexual predators, are they on probation or
10:34:04 something like that?
10:34:06 >>> Many sexual predators -- first of all you identify
10:34:09 the sexual predator under state law it's my
10:34:11 understanding there is a core process.
10:34:13 So you can be a sex offender but to be designate add
10:34:17 sexual predator literally is a process that we go
10:34:20 through and that's one of the things that makes that
10:34:22 very defensible because you cannot -- to say I have
10:34:27 never been designated as a threat.
10:34:31 That's correct?
10:34:32 >>MARY ALVAREZ: So can these sexual predators have a
10:34:36 bracelet on their ankles where they can monitor their
10:34:41 >>> They certainly could.
10:34:42 That may in fact be the condition of parole or release
10:34:45 for some of them.
10:34:46 Maybe all of them.
10:34:47 I don't know.
10:34:48 That's determined by the court and is probably
10:34:51 determined based upon the input from the law
10:34:53 enforcement officials, and the nature of the crime.
10:34:56 And the perceived threat that that person represents
10:34:59 to the community.
10:35:02 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Thank you, David, for your research.
10:35:06 If we decide to go the route of the exclusionary
10:35:11 zones, I had a couple of questions.
10:35:14 Currently, libraries, I don't believe, are included,
10:35:20 are they?
10:35:21 >>> Libraries are not included under the current
10:35:22 statute but I believe they are on the map you are
10:35:25 looking at.
10:35:25 That's one of the methodology issues on the map.
10:35:27 >> So I would think we would want to include libraries
10:35:30 as one of those exclusionary zones, places where you
10:35:32 can't hang out.
10:35:34 And that's up to debate with my colleagues but just my
10:35:37 thoughts on that.
10:35:38 Now, I would agree with you on the bus stops being not
10:35:43 counted for the places where you can live, because
10:35:46 that is a moving target, and they change probably all
10:35:49 the time.
10:35:51 But what about the bus stops being within the
10:35:53 exclusion zones?
10:35:55 >>> I think that makes a lot of sense.
10:35:57 >>SHAWN HARRISON: So if when do those two things --
10:36:00 and certainly I agree with you that private parks need
10:36:04 to be included, because that's one of the reasons why
10:36:08 this whole thing came up in the first place when those
10:36:11 two ladies up in the New Tampa area.
10:36:15 Now, my question, I guess, would be for my colleagues.
10:36:17 And it's just sort of a theoretical question at this
10:36:22 point, that we probably should hear from the experts.
10:36:25 Is 300 feet -- not only the exclusionary zone, it's my
10:36:30 understanding, you can't be in these places.
10:36:32 But you can't be 300 feet from these places.
10:36:35 At least that's one of the ordinances that's up in
10:36:40 >>> I believe representative Glorioso has that in his
10:36:44 house bill 157.
10:36:46 >> I think that's a key, also.
10:36:48 Because someone can literally stand on the border of a
10:36:52 park or across the street, and not run afoul of it, if
10:36:58 you can't be in there.
10:36:59 But by saying you can't be within 300 feet or 100
10:37:02 yards, then we definitely tighten that up.
10:37:06 We give them additional protection.
10:37:08 And on the 1,000 feet versus 1500 feet, my own opinion
10:37:12 is, we should come up with the toughest ordinance that
10:37:15 we can come up with.
10:37:16 But I really want to hear from Chief Hogue and the
10:37:19 police department about that.
10:37:21 Because I don't want to create by simply going up
10:37:26 another 500 feet, if that's not going to give us
10:37:29 enough bang for the buck on protection, but it's going
10:37:32 to substantially impair their ability to keep track of
10:37:36 the people that they are already keeping track of,
10:37:39 then we don't need to do that.
10:37:40 So we want an ordinance that's tough, that's
10:37:43 enforceable Constitutionally, and TPD says we agree,
10:37:47 and we are 100% behind you on that.
10:37:50 And you have not heard from Chief Hogue.
10:37:52 We have talked about the exclusion zones.
10:37:53 But he hasn't really weighed in on the 1,000 versus
10:37:59 1500 feet.
10:37:59 I guess my inclination at this point would be to go
10:38:02 ahead and move down towards the exclusion zones with
10:38:05 these additions that we talked about here today.
10:38:08 Keep it at 1,000 feet.
10:38:10 Plus keep the 1500 feet as part of the dialogue.
10:38:13 So that we can hear from Chief Hogue on that.
10:38:16 But certainly move forward with the exclusion zones.
10:38:19 And then the other things that we have spoken about.
10:38:23 Those are my two cents.
10:38:25 And I'm sure everybody else wants to weigh in on that.
10:38:28 >> Can we add the elderly to that?
10:38:30 >>> Well, right now we are focusing on, you know,
10:38:35 child protection.
10:38:36 I think we should probably deal with elderly in a
10:38:39 different ordinance, because we want to make sure that
10:38:41 we aren't combining, what's that one rule for
10:38:45 ordinances, you can only deal with one topic?
10:38:47 >>> Only one topic.
10:38:54 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Can we work on the elderly ordinance?
10:38:56 I'm getting there.
10:38:58 [ Laughter ]
10:38:58 >>> I am, too.
10:38:59 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Actually, I would agree with that,
10:39:02 Mrs. Alvarez, but let's not mix them up and possibly
10:39:04 jeopardize the child protection ordinance.
10:39:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Other questions by council members?
10:39:16 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Two questions actually for
10:39:18 clarification really to understand where councilman
10:39:21 Harrison is going.
10:39:22 When we talk about the exclusion zones, that's the
10:39:24 anti-loitering, anti--- is that right?
10:39:31 >>> Yes.
10:39:31 >> The 1500 would be the residency restrictions.
10:39:34 1,000, 1500.
10:39:36 >>> Right.
10:39:36 >> I agree with your analysis.
10:39:37 I think that's appropriate.
10:39:38 And I appreciate the city attorney's office really
10:39:41 looking at these issues thoroughly, and giving us good
10:39:45 Because what we don't want to do, while we want to be
10:39:48 as strong and aggressive as we can beyond these issues
10:39:51 to protect the children in the city, we don't want to
10:39:55 get in a situation where we create a litigation
10:40:00 problem where we get six months, a year down the road,
10:40:03 two years down the road, and find out that everything,
10:40:06 after all the effort you and city staff and county
10:40:09 staff have put in, is for naught because it's been
10:40:13 struck down.
10:40:14 So I appreciate your guidance on this.
10:40:16 The one additional thing that I would suggest that we
10:40:19 consider as we move forward, there is a debate right
10:40:23 now in Tallahassee and various pieces of legislation
10:40:25 about whether to move statewide from 1,000 feet to
10:40:28 2500 feet.
10:40:30 And as we have gone through this process we talked
10:40:32 about a number of different tools that we could put
10:40:34 into ordinance which would assist Tampa Police
10:40:36 Department in tracking these individuals, and getting
10:40:40 more eyes and ears out in the community.
10:40:42 I would suggest that we consider, as we draft this,
10:40:47 making sure that those tools were available within
10:40:49 whatever zone the state sets.
10:40:52 So the issue related to the identification and
10:40:56 reporting of offenders that are attempting to leave
10:41:01 some exclusionary zones, other things we talked about
10:41:03 that perhaps you work with the police department, make
10:41:07 sure all those tools are available within whatever
10:41:10 exclusionary zone the state ultimately -- the
10:41:17 residency restriction zones in whatever area the state
10:41:19 ultimately designates.
10:41:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
10:41:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Smith, excellent work by you
10:41:27 and your staff trying to get a handle on it.
10:41:31 Very complicated area.
10:41:34 And Mr. Harrison, I commend you for staying on top of
10:41:39 Item 8 in your memo to us, that allows to us keep an
10:41:45 eye on the measures in the legislature to avoid
10:41:47 redundancy, conflict and unnecessary complications.
10:41:50 I want to focus on that for a minute.
10:41:53 Because where is the state on this in terms of, you
10:41:59 know, are they meeting in committee right now,
10:42:01 addressing this?
10:42:03 You know, what sort of case do we expect this to be?
10:42:10 Have we talked to legislative staff folks?
10:42:12 >> That's a good question.
10:42:13 The first question with respect to where are they, the
10:42:16 only thing I am aware of, is we have three pre-filed
10:42:20 I believe one is the one I mentioned, Mr. Gorico.
10:42:25 I believe Senator Crist has filed a bill.
10:42:28 And I believe the third one was senator Saunders.
10:42:34 Have we had any conversation with the legislature, the
10:42:36 committee or their staff?
10:42:41 >>> I spoke with Debby Stevenson, and she provided me
10:42:44 with some background information as far as the
10:42:51 legislative committee, at least one of the bills
10:42:53 passed through, and can get back to you.
10:42:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: My point would be that we want to
10:43:03 protect the citizens of Tampa from sexual predators.
10:43:07 But, at the same time, the state is going to be
10:43:10 helping us with legislation, then do that.
10:43:13 Then the citizens of Tampa don't need to spend extra
10:43:15 money and time doing it.
10:43:19 So I agree wholeheartedly with your number 8, is we
10:43:23 need to keep pace with the state and not perceive the
10:43:28 state on anything until we see what they do.
10:43:30 If we haven't done enough, then we need to do more.
10:43:33 But if they have done enough and they have taken care
10:43:35 of these issues, then that's fine and we can save our
10:43:37 taxpayers money and effort.
10:43:41 >>DAVID SMITH: Thank you.
10:43:42 I would also suspect this is going to clear the
10:43:44 legislature this year.
10:43:45 It's one of those bills that will not be a last-minute
10:43:48 Those tend to be the finance-related issues, as you
10:43:53 And I will find out where we are on this.
10:43:55 Because clearly we don't want to bring something back
10:43:58 to you that we are going to have to redo yet again.
10:44:03 So we will certainly get that update.
10:44:05 And we will talk with the three sponsors of those
10:44:08 bills to find out what their plans are.
10:44:10 And they usually have a pretty good idea of how much
10:44:12 support they have got.
10:44:13 So we will do that and find out and get back to you.
10:44:23 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Dennis, a very good point.
10:44:25 There are actually six bills altogether.
10:44:28 I checked last night.
10:44:29 Senator Gentiano's bill which got through first
10:44:36 committee did not appear to me to really address these
10:44:39 And I think there's some conflicts potentially in
10:44:42 terms of philosophy between the different pieces of
10:44:45 So I think it would be prudent to see how that process
10:44:50 goes, because personally, I think that Tallahassee
10:44:55 should be the place that we take a leadership role on
10:44:59 this as a state, and should take the lead, because
10:45:01 this is a problem in many, many different ways, not
10:45:04 the least of which are the issues we are dealing with
10:45:06 here, but issues related to sentencing, amount of time
10:45:11 in jail, treatment while in jail for these individuals
10:45:13 so that hopefully they don't reoffend.
10:45:16 But it is such a huge problem.
10:45:18 If they do reoffend I think it's prudent for the city
10:45:21 to be as aggressive as we can be.
10:45:23 I think Tallahassee really needs to take the lead on
10:45:25 And they need to kind of set the standard or the lead
10:45:31 that we are going to follow.
10:45:32 And then we can provide additional local support if we
10:45:36 think it's necessary.
10:45:38 And one that I mentioned earlier, the 1,000 feat
10:45:41 versus 2500 feet, that's a core part of this debate is
10:45:44 my understanding.
10:45:45 So I think it would be prudent to follow that process
10:45:48 and make whatever we do consistent with what the state
10:45:52 process is.
10:45:53 And we should see results probably in April.
10:45:58 >>DAVID SMITH: The critical factor here is monitoring.
10:46:02 That's all handled through the state.
10:46:03 And is a state driven process.
10:46:05 I believe as Ms. Alvarez mentioned, some of those
10:46:09 solutions or approaches are going to be critical.
10:46:13 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I do think it's important for us to
10:46:17 follow what's happening in Tallahassee.
10:46:21 But we don't have any clue because there are three
10:46:24 vastly different bills that have been filed.
10:46:27 Which one ultimately mate or ultimately will be
10:46:30 passed, but that won't be until the end of April that
10:46:33 it gets passed.
10:46:34 And then you are also talking about probably not going
10:46:37 into effect, I wouldn't think, until, what, July
10:46:40 1st at the absolute earliest?
10:46:43 Typically a law doesn't take effect as soon as the
10:46:45 session is over, right?
10:46:47 >>> Usually they give a specified date.
10:46:49 In this instance since they have a preexisting
10:46:51 regulatory pattern they may be able to do certain
10:46:55 things back to the 2004 date.
10:46:57 And they also have, I believe, a 1993 date for some of
10:47:01 the conviction dates.
10:47:05 '95, sorry.
10:47:06 I understand what you are saying.
10:47:08 The bill is typically not in effect until the earliest
10:47:12 and typically set a date like July 1.
10:47:15 >> So while I think monitoring is important and
10:47:17 weighing in is important for us to do, I think that we
10:47:20 also ought to go ahead and move forward with our own
10:47:24 We know the county is going to do something, also.
10:47:27 As I understand, they have gotten an ordinance, a
10:47:29 draft ordinance that's been prepared, that will be
10:47:32 presented to them next week.
10:47:33 And so we need to make sure that what they are doing,
10:47:38 we monitor that as well.
10:47:39 Because if they pass an ordinance, we do not pass an
10:47:42 ordinance, their ordinance will apply to us.
10:47:46 So I think watching is good.
10:47:48 But I think also preceding as though we have no idea
10:47:54 what may happen is also probably wise and we can
10:47:57 always adjust our ordinance after we find out what
10:48:00 comes out of Tallahassee or the county.
10:48:02 So I would not be in favor of waiting until
10:48:04 Tallahassee asks before we proceed with drafting our
10:48:07 own ordinance and begin trying to figure out and have
10:48:11 that dialogue with Chief Hogue, what do you think
10:48:14 about 1500, 1,000, and the exclusion zones, and let's
10:48:17 get him to weigh in -- to weigh in.
10:48:23 >> I was told I might receive a draft last night.
10:48:25 I haven't had a chance to look at it.
10:48:27 So they are supposedly going to be taking all that
10:48:29 next Wednesday.
10:48:30 So they could as early as Wednesday possibly have an
10:48:33 And it is correct, under the charter, to the extent
10:48:37 the county passes an ordinance, if the cities within
10:48:40 the jurisdiction do not have an ordinance, the county
10:48:43 ordinance governs.
10:48:46 >>MARY ALVAREZ: In the event that we do pass an
10:48:51 ordinance like that, do we need to ask chef Hogue
10:48:56 whether he's going to need more manpower?
10:48:58 >>DAVID SMITH: I think it would be important to talk
10:49:02 with Chief Hogue and get his input both in terms of
10:49:04 the efficacy of what you are contemplating and the
10:49:08 cost of what you're contemplating.
10:49:10 I believe that's exactly councilman Harrison was
10:49:13 indicating as well and I believe councilwoman
10:49:16 Saul-Sena has asked for some other testimony.
10:49:18 We are arranging and obtaining information from people
10:49:21 who would be happy to address some of those issues.
10:49:24 The effect of these things, and how they are best
10:49:29 You really need to hear all of that as part of the
10:49:33 >>> Well, I will defer to councilman Harrison to make
10:49:37 the motion as far as Chief Hogue is concerned and the
10:49:45 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Then let's just move it off the
10:49:48 I would move that we direct legal to prepare a draft
10:49:52 ordinance, come back here in two weeks, keep 1,000
10:49:56 feet, all right?
10:49:58 That when do the private parks, in the definition of
10:50:02 We add libraries.
10:50:04 And we add bus stops to the exclusion zones.
10:50:07 And that we also ask Chief Hogue or someone on his
10:50:11 staff to be prepared in two weeks to discuss the draft
10:50:15 ordinance and give his recommendations on increasing
10:50:20 the buffers, as well as what the cost for
10:50:24 implementation and monitoring will be.
10:50:26 So we can address that at budget time.
10:50:29 >>CHAIRMAN: Question on the motion.
10:50:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just wanted to ensure that my
10:50:33 concerns, that we hear from people in social service
10:50:37 agencies who have a great level of understanding from
10:50:46 protection, social service experience, that have an
10:50:51 opportunity to weigh in at that time, and have a
10:50:54 question from Mr. Smith.
10:50:55 Will you be able to get those people or their
10:50:59 testimony to be here at that time?
10:51:00 Because our whole goal here is to do whatever.
10:51:06 That's protect the kids.
10:51:10 >>> We have been working with arranging for people to
10:51:13 be here.
10:51:14 Julie Cabagaras had those conversations and is
10:51:20 indicating we could have those people here within that
10:51:22 two-week period.
10:51:23 >> Could we have them here next week?
10:51:26 We have been talking about this for quite some time.
10:51:29 >>> I'm speaking with Dr. Leo Cotter.
10:51:32 He's been counseling sex offenders the past 30 years.
10:51:36 But he also worked with victims.
10:51:38 He's available any Thursday in March.
10:51:40 But --
10:51:43 >> March isn't soon enough.
10:51:44 >>> I can probably get him to come early.
10:51:46 >> Mr. Harrison's motion is in two weeks.
10:51:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm asking --
10:51:53 >>CHAIRMAN: Let Mr. Harrison clarify.
10:51:54 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I'm not suggesting in two weeks we
10:51:56 have a final ordinance that we are going to go through
10:51:58 a public hearing process on.
10:52:00 I'm suggesting we have a draft ordinance with these
10:52:02 revisions and that we will hear from Chief Hogue as to
10:52:07 what his thoughts on that.
10:52:08 And then if he says, council, we like it, let's move
10:52:11 it forward, then we'll schedule public hearings which
10:52:13 would be probably the appropriate time for everyone to
10:52:16 come down and weigh in on it from any agency that
10:52:19 wants to come and weigh in on it.
10:52:23 >> I don't think we should just limit it to chief of
10:52:28 I think we should talk to the sheriff, probation
10:52:31 These people are the ones that will have to monitor
10:52:34 this thing.
10:52:35 And if we are going to get these experts to come in
10:52:37 and give their opinion we need to also include them to
10:52:41 come to this meeting, with your clarification, I will
10:52:44 support the motion.
10:52:47 Before I was not going to because I wanted to make
10:52:50 sure these other entities are involved before when do
10:52:53 So if we can get the sheriff, his feedback, or extend
10:52:58 this, in the county, I think the sheriff should have a
10:53:01 right to express his viewpoints about it, as well as
10:53:05 probation and parole, who will have to monitor these
10:53:09 So if we can also included any agency that you might
10:53:15 deem necessary to be at this meeting in two weeks,
10:53:18 then I'll support the Harrison motion.
10:53:24 >>SHAWN HARRISON: That's feign.
10:53:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Fletcher?
10:53:31 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I would like to get your thought
10:53:32 on this.
10:53:33 What about drafting the ordinance so that it ties to
10:53:38 whatever the state residency restriction is?
10:53:42 That way, if we move forward and the state changes it
10:53:45 during this period, we are simply enforcing
10:53:49 whatever -- personally, I think it's going to go to
10:53:53 2500 feet statewide.
10:53:55 That's my sense of the process.
10:53:57 But then we would also have those tools that we
10:53:59 discussed that hopefully would be in this draft
10:54:01 ordinance, like dealing with the sex offenders within
10:54:07 the excluded residency restriction zones.
10:54:09 I think that might be from an enforcement, drafting
10:54:12 standpoint, a little more effective.
10:54:14 But I would want to hear from the legal department and
10:54:17 the chief of police and those folks as to whether or
10:54:19 not that's useful for them.
10:54:24 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Mr. Fletcher, I would agree with
10:54:26 What Mr. Smith says, he doesn't think that we probably
10:54:28 on our own can get 2500 but if the state does that,
10:54:31 we'll certainly not stand in their way.
10:54:34 And so I think that's a good motion.
10:54:38 And however you tailor that, David, to watch out for
10:54:43 whatever happens in Tallahassee is probably wise.
10:54:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Is it going to include senior citizens
10:54:49 anywhere in there?
10:54:50 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Not yet.
10:54:51 Not for this tissue -- this issue.
10:54:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: In will go at our schedule, two
10:54:56 weeks from now is March 1st, so the psychiatrist
10:55:00 would be able to come then.
10:55:02 I would like to suggest that this is going to be a
10:55:06 pretty intense conversation.
10:55:08 And March 1st we don't have an evening meeting.
10:55:12 I'd lick to suggest that we skull it for --
10:55:14 >>GWEN MILLER: We do an evening meeting.
10:55:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The first?
10:55:19 We do?
10:55:20 Well, never maned.
10:55:21 I suggest we schedule it for 11:00 o'clock rather than
10:55:25 unscheduled business so if we are bringing in experts
10:55:27 from law enforcement, you know, psychiatrists and all
10:55:31 these folks, that we schedule it at like 11:00 with
10:55:34 the understanding that we -- or 10:30.
10:55:36 Whatever time you think is a good time so when don't
10:55:39 just have it right after commendations.
10:55:42 Because it's 11:00 now.
10:55:47 >>GWEN MILLER: How about the end of the meeting?
10:55:49 >>> No, these are people that charge a lot by the
10:55:52 And I would rather schedule it -- Mr. Harrison, it's
10:55:58 your motion, but I would appreciate a time certain
10:56:00 with the understanding that we'll stop at that time
10:56:02 and focus on the issue.
10:56:03 >>SHAWN HARRISON: That's fine.
10:56:05 I don't show a meeting in the evening March 1st.
10:56:08 >>GWEN MILLER: The clerk said there is a meeting.
10:56:09 >>THE CLERK: There is a special meeting you set on the
10:56:11 JLUS amendment.
10:56:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Why isn't it an on our --
10:56:21 >>THE CLERK: I have a feeling it's on the 8th.
10:56:23 I'll check it out.
10:56:26 >>SHAWN HARRISON: It will probably take an hour to go
10:56:27 through and we'll be done.
10:56:36 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Mr. Fletcher, you mentioned something
10:56:38 about the 2500-foot ordinance.
10:56:41 I don't think the state will do that because according
10:56:43 to Mr. Smith the first thing he said was that 92% of
10:56:47 the city will be excluded.
10:56:55 And then just not sustainable.
10:56:59 You said it's going to cause considerable problems.
10:57:01 So either we go for 1 that you or 1500 feet.
10:57:04 But I won't support the 2500.
10:57:06 It's not going to go anywhere.
10:57:08 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: If I could clarify.
10:57:10 I would suggest we have an ordinance that simply
10:57:13 references the state statute so if the state changes
10:57:16 then whatever ware doing in the city is consistent
10:57:18 with state law and we give local law enforcement or
10:57:22 code enforcement the tools they need to fully
10:57:24 implement whatever the state law is.
10:57:26 There are bills in Tallahassee to move that distance.
10:57:29 That's why --
10:57:31 >> You mentioned the 2500.
10:57:33 It's just not a feasible thing.
10:57:35 It's not going to be enforceable according to our
10:57:38 esteemed attorney.
10:57:41 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I would expect anything that comes
10:57:43 out of the state would be something to the effect that
10:57:45 if they move to the 2500 feet, except in those
10:57:47 communities where that affects essentially a
10:57:51 banishment, and it should therefore be retreated back
10:57:55 to -- and they may even set a threshold that states
10:57:58 tend to like to do.
10:58:00 The advantage for us in that regard is that becomes a
10:58:02 state statute.
10:58:05 We are simply incorporated by reference.
10:58:07 Now, bear in mind the state does limit those strong
10:58:10 exclusions to the sexual predators and not all sexual
10:58:14 Again as you change one of the variables, you enhance
10:58:17 our position.
10:58:18 So 50 people affected, the guideline is a lot better
10:58:24 than 500.
10:58:24 And you have 50 people who are were adjudicated as
10:58:27 dangerous pursuant to a court.
10:58:34 I don't want to confuse you.
10:58:35 There's very little that comes to law.
10:58:37 It's usually a lot of balancing.
10:58:39 But -- well, I don't want to confuse you.
10:58:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do we have a motion?
10:58:46 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and a second.
10:58:49 Do you want to impose a date?
10:58:51 >> Two weeks.
10:58:52 >>GWEN MILLER: March 1st at 1:30.
10:58:54 All in favor say Aye.
10:58:55 Opposed, Nay.
10:58:57 (Motion carried).
10:58:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just a matter of scheduling right
10:59:00 It's my understanding that many, many people in the
10:59:02 audience are here today for item 65.
10:59:04 And I just want to bring that to Madam Chair's
10:59:08 There's a lot of folks here for 65?
10:59:12 So I wondered if we could try to get them out before
10:59:22 >>CHAIRMAN: I have a request for item 61.
10:59:26 The petitioner is in a meeting.
10:59:28 Maybe that be heard, too.
10:59:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I move to take up 65.
10:59:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Moreda.
10:59:43 >>GLORIA MOREDA: Land development.
10:59:44 This is on the.
10:59:51 >>GWEN MILLER: You all on 61?
10:59:53 Okay, open 61.
10:59:54 >> Motion and second.
10:59:56 (Motion Carried).
10:59:59 >> The electric fence ordinance.
11:00:00 Last council asked us to provide for the requirement
11:00:07 that is the use of electric fencing is adjacent to
11:00:12 residential property, that it will require a public
11:00:18 hearing before the variance review board.
11:00:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have a point of order.
11:00:23 The agenda item 61 says second reading.
11:00:25 I thought we turned down the ordinance, we voted down
11:00:29 the ordinance.
11:00:30 What do we do procedurally?
11:00:33 >>GLORIA MOREDA: You requested us --
11:00:35 >> Did we leave hanging so we can amend it back?
11:00:37 What did we do?
11:00:39 >>> It was a request for reconsideration in front of
11:00:41 Council voted to reconsider it.
11:00:43 It needed to be renoticed in the newspaper.
11:00:46 That was done.
11:00:46 It was renoticed for second reading because that's
11:00:49 where we were in the process. This is a new
11:00:51 And if you want to consider this ordinance you are
11:00:52 going to have to convert this to first reading which
11:00:55 would be fine for to you do.
11:00:58 It will have to be renoticed for second.
11:01:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can I move that then accordingly,
11:01:02 just make that motion?
11:01:06 >> This F this is acceptable for to you move on first
11:01:08 reading at this point.
11:01:09 >> And Gloria, I'm sorry to interrupt but I think it
11:01:12 was important to clarify where we were at because I
11:01:14 got confused.
11:01:15 >>GLORIA MOREDA: The last meeting, I guess there was
11:01:17 discussion during the decision whether to reconsider
11:01:20 or not.
11:01:21 There was a suggest that -- suggestion that maybe the
11:01:24 ordinance be approved if there is in fact residential
11:01:28 property adjacent for what it's being used for.
11:01:32 The electric fencing.
11:01:33 Whether it's commercial or industrial.
11:01:35 That that would require a public hearing.
11:01:37 And the ordinance was amended to require that.
11:01:42 The petitioner reviewed the proposed change to the
11:01:45 ordinance and had no objection to that.
11:01:52 Made some modification.
11:01:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So we have a good compromise.
11:01:58 We'll take it back to first reading.
11:01:59 That would be my motion.
11:02:01 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion an second.
11:02:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Is across the street adjacent?
11:02:11 >>> No.
11:02:12 It needs to be abutting.
11:02:13 Street right-of-way has not been considered to be
11:02:20 >> We have a motion and second.
11:02:28 >> All in favor of that motion say Aye.
11:02:31 (Motion carried).
11:02:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ms. Saul-Sena, did you want to
11:02:35 comment or anything before I --
11:02:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I feel like we have come up with a
11:02:40 I'm willing to go with it and revisit in the future.
11:02:44 >> Move an ordinance in the city of Tampa, Florida
11:02:45 amending City of Tampa code of ordinances chapter 27
11:02:48 zoning section 27-133 fence and wall regulations by
11:02:52 allowing electric fences under certain conditions,
11:02:54 providing for severability, providing for repeal of
11:02:57 all ordinances in conflict, providing an effective
11:03:00 >> We have a motion an second.
11:03:01 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
11:03:02 (Motion carried)
11:03:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, just for the public's
11:03:12 information, this was passed on first reading.
11:03:15 This is not quasi-judicial.
11:03:17 It will be coming back to council for second reading
11:03:19 and adoption public hearing two weeks from today,
11:03:22 March 1st at 10 a.m
11:03:25 Excuse me, 9:30.
11:03:27 I stand corrected.
11:03:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 65.
11:03:30 Need to open that.
11:03:33 >> So moved.
11:03:34 >> Second.
11:03:34 (Motion carried).
11:03:35 >>CHAIRMAN: Anyone in the public that's going to speak
11:03:37 on item 65 you need to stand and raise your right
11:03:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Madam clerk, have you received any
11:03:57 Council, I believe there has been information
11:03:59 e-mailed, et cetera, to communications through council
11:04:01 that have been available for public inspection at
11:04:03 council's office.
11:04:04 I would ask it be received and filled into the record
11:04:06 at this time.
11:04:07 By motion, please.
11:04:10 >> So moved.
11:04:10 >> Second.
11:04:10 (Motion carried).
11:04:14 >> Secondly, a remained we are regard to ex parte
11:04:17 communications, if you have had any communications
11:04:20 with anyone in relation to this hearing or any other
11:04:22 hearings to follow that quasi-judicial please disclose
11:04:26 prior to the vote the person, group or entity with
11:04:28 whom the verbal communication occurred and the
11:04:30 substance of that verbal communication.
11:04:32 Ladies and gentlemen, finally, in order to expedite
11:04:34 things, when do you testify and you state your name,
11:04:36 please reaffirm for the record that you have been
11:04:39 Thank you.
11:04:44 >>BARBARA LEPORE: Land development.
11:04:46 I have been sworn.
11:04:46 I am here for WZ 07-22.
11:04:52 4(COP-X) at 113-123 south Hyde Park Avenue.
11:05:02 Property has been wet zoned and number 111, 113 and
11:05:06 115 south Hyde Park is already 2(COP-R).
11:05:11 Also, the portion of the property which is located at
11:05:16 122 south Hyde Park, 1(COP) approved.
11:05:23 If this wet zoning would be approved, the wet zoning
11:05:26 would contain over 6,000 square feet.
11:05:31 The sale of alcohol will be incidental.
11:05:35 There are other wet zoned properties which are located
11:05:37 in the area.
11:05:39 And there is residential properties.
11:05:45 And a waiver of the separation requirement.
11:05:51 Land development has no objection.
11:05:53 But there are some issues with parking.
11:05:56 The parking issue might be resolved.
11:06:02 If I can show it to you.
11:06:21 100 feet to 2(COP-R) and to 120 feet of the building.
11:06:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Officer Miller?
11:06:41 >>> Officer Miller, City of Tampa police department.
11:06:44 I have been sworn in.
11:06:46 And City of Tampa police department has in objections
11:06:49 to this wet zoning.
11:06:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
11:06:57 >>> My name is Joseph Diaz, office at 2522 West
11:07:00 Kennedy Boulevard.
11:07:02 And I'm hear today before you on behalf of Angela
11:07:04 Massari, trustee and revocable trust, the land owners.
11:07:16 I have been sworn in.
11:07:19 I apologize to you.
11:07:21 Council, I have some packets I would like to pass out
11:07:24 if I may.
11:07:26 Unfortunately I only have six.
11:07:28 >>GWEN MILLER: We'll share.
11:07:50 The location in question is on the south side of west
11:07:53 Hyde Park Avenue. The northernmost portion is
11:07:56 presently occupied by this, the southernmost portion
11:08:00 of the property, maybe best known as The Retreat
11:08:04 We have filed an application for a 4(COP-X) with
11:08:08 respect to that location.
11:08:09 The purpose of the X is that we are hoping to allow
11:08:12 our patrons to be able to smoke.
11:08:14 And that is what the X is all about.
11:08:17 The location will consist of about 6,632 square feet.
11:08:23 I think that if you review the handout that I have
11:08:26 just given you, you will notice the first thing is
11:08:28 sort of like a color rendering of what we hope to
11:08:31 accomplish at this location.
11:08:36 It will basically encompass the whole building with
11:08:39 the exception of the corner of that building there is
11:08:41 a grocery store at this time.
11:08:51 The document would indicate a floor plan of what's
11:08:54 anticipated to be utilized at that location.
11:09:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Diaz, there's a little
11:09:08 confusion on the panel.
11:09:09 If you could put the aerial photo up.
11:09:12 This one here.
11:09:21 And just give us a bearing as to the university of
11:09:24 Tampa, as to the adjacent church, as to the adjacent
11:09:27 uses, et cetera.
11:09:33 >> This is the whole property in question.
11:09:35 Immediately to the north of it is the new university
11:09:38 of Tampa dorm.
11:09:40 >> With the tree that we saved.
11:09:46 >> Going north is the university of Tampa am
11:09:48 The church is the First Baptist Church.
11:09:53 Here's the church back her on the old Grand Central.
11:09:56 >> And the restaurant is --
11:09:59 >>> Back here.
11:10:00 >> Thank you for the bearings.
11:10:05 >>> It is the first structure immediately south of the
11:10:07 dorm and works its way all the way, not quite to the
11:10:12 old Grand Central because at the Grand Central there's
11:10:15 a grocery store.
11:10:16 So it would be minus that piece to Grand Central.
11:10:26 The property is hopefully going to be developed by a
11:10:28 gentleman by the name of Rick Carboe, the original
11:10:35 founder of what is now known as the Green Iguana.
11:10:38 The Green Iguana as you all know started out, down to
11:10:44 Ybor City, later went to the causeway, now is up in
11:10:47 the northern end of the county, in addition to the
11:10:50 location in Pinellas County that they operate.
11:10:55 He has been in the food and beverage industry for in
11:10:58 excess of 25 yourself and opened the Green Iguana 17
11:11:01 years ago.
11:11:04 During that time, as a result of these various other
11:11:07 locations that he now has, there is going to be
11:11:12 employed within their somewhat in the vicinity of 475
11:11:18 employees all of which are certified responsible
11:11:19 vendor trainees.
11:11:22 During that 17-year period, at in a time has any Green
11:11:29 Iguana ever received a beverage department violation,
11:11:32 nor has it received a citation from the City of Tampa.
11:11:37 And --
11:11:43 >> Madam Chairman.
11:11:43 I just want to say these not entirely accurate.
11:11:48 >>> Why?
11:11:49 >> Because when I was on council many years ago, the
11:11:51 one on Westshore received code enforcement violations
11:11:54 for noise because the neighborhood complained.
11:11:57 >>> Ma'am, I believe what you are alluding to is noise
11:12:01 which were rectified.
11:12:02 Way was alluding to is -- that's why I said very
11:12:05 responsible vendor.
11:12:06 We have never been cited by Division of Alcoholic
11:12:08 Beverages and tobacco, or the City of Tampa, for any
11:12:13 underage or any drugs.
11:12:17 Yes, there was a time way back when in council when
11:12:19 there was a noise issue that I think eventually got
11:12:22 There were buffers built up and all that matter got
11:12:25 But to my knowledge that's the only complaint that's
11:12:27 ever came with any of the locations.
11:12:37 The present site at its southernmost end has a 1(COP)
11:12:42 wet zoning that apparently has been there since about
11:12:47 It got grandfathered in.
11:12:48 There is no actual ordinance on it.
11:12:50 The northern end, which is cafe Europe peen, has
11:12:54 2(COP-R) which was an ordinance adopted back in about
11:12:58 1995 by council.
11:13:01 There is some area in the middle that at this point in
11:13:04 time does not enjoy any wet zoning classification
11:13:06 whatsoever that is part of this application.
11:13:11 If we continue through the packet, I think you will
11:13:13 see that we have got a letter of recommendation from
11:13:18 north Hyde Park, which is the neighborhood association
11:13:20 for the area.
11:13:22 Part of your packet.
11:13:34 You will seat that we get support from make a wish
11:13:37 They have a event once a year called night of the
11:13:40 iguana, basically sponsored by the Green Iguana, and
11:13:44 the Green Iguana has sponsored that event for wake a
11:13:49 wish foundation during its inception and during that
11:13:51 period of time make a wish has been able to realize
11:13:53 somewhere around $3 million to be able to grant the
11:13:56 wishes of children.
11:14:05 67 are you finished?
11:14:06 >>> No.
11:14:07 In your packet I think you are going to see that there
11:14:09 is a letter of recommendation from Maggie Chen, an
11:14:13 M.D. with Tampa General Hospital.
11:14:15 I think you will also find that there are 378
11:14:20 signatures in support of this application.
11:14:28 I'm under the impression there is going to be some
11:14:30 opposition and I would like to reserve the remainder
11:14:32 of time to be able to deal with that.
11:14:34 >>GWEN MILLER: All right.
11:14:35 At this point anyone in the public that wants to speak
11:14:38 on item 65.
11:14:40 Come up and speak.
11:14:41 Everybody that wants to speak come up now.
11:14:43 Line up and speak.
11:14:46 >> Robert Rudet, Dean of students at the University of
11:15:00 I'm also involved in the State of Florida as chair of
11:15:02 our statewide coalition for 41 public an private
11:15:05 colleges and served as a youth Department of
11:15:10 Education, regional coordinator, for the network
11:15:12 addressing collegiate alcohol and other drug issues
11:15:16 for seven years.
11:15:20 In most college towns bars and pubs populate the area
11:15:24 around campuses.
11:15:25 These bars offer drink specials, allow those under the
11:15:29 legal age to enter, and purchase non-alcoholic drinks.
11:15:35 Personal and sexual abuse pervades our nation's
11:15:38 campuses because of alcohol abuse.
11:15:41 We are not into that in Tampa.
11:15:47 The bar owners and managers say they do not serve the
11:15:50 patrons under 21.
11:15:51 I'm sorry, I was sworn in.
11:15:54 That underage students return to campus drunk and
11:15:58 cause vandalism in our newly built residence halls.
11:16:01 As you know, The Retreat is part of the iguana bar and
11:16:06 grill chain.
11:16:08 They have great values.
11:16:09 They will not have drink specials, or paper our campus
11:16:13 with flip bar flares like many of the bars and clubs
11:16:16 already do.
11:16:17 They train their workers in responsible service.
11:16:21 They have scanners to determine fake driver's
11:16:25 They even enclosure their establishments after
11:16:27 10 p.m., and only allow 21 and over admission.
11:16:35 Our concern is The Retreat is in the wrong location.
11:16:39 It is about 50 feet from our newest residence hall,
11:16:42 Kennedy place.
11:16:45 It is about 100 feet from our main historic entrance
11:16:48 to our campus.
11:16:49 Another concern is that they may be successful or may
11:16:53 not be successful in their business plan.
11:16:56 This may cause them to sell The Retreat.
11:17:00 Once they sell it, the new owners may not be
11:17:02 interested in continuing the policies that those in
11:17:06 charge of the Green Iguana's retreat now have.
11:17:10 We will be at the mercy of the new owners of the
11:17:14 4(COP-X) license.
11:17:16 We do not want to take that chance.
11:17:19 Please vote no for the transfer of a 4(COP-X) license
11:17:26 to 113-123 south Hyde Park Avenue.
11:17:30 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Can I ask you a question?
11:17:33 And I think it will be a cellular question for many of
11:17:35 the speakers.
11:17:36 What if this were an R classification?
11:17:39 If this were a restaurant that had requirements to
11:17:41 serve more food than they do alcohol there, so that
11:17:45 they can have a gathering spot and a restaurant, but
11:17:50 it wouldn't be a nightclub type of environment?
11:17:55 >> I think these are classed as a 4(COP-R).
11:17:59 >> Personally, it would appeal to me.
11:18:02 I'm under direction to oppose any upgrading of
11:18:08 alcoholic beverages in this location.
11:18:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Sir, how many students live in that
11:18:14 very attractive new dorm?
11:18:18 >>> 182.
11:18:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker.
11:18:26 >>> Michael, First Baptist Church of Tampa and I have
11:18:29 been sworn in.
11:18:33 I am here to represent our church today and want to
11:18:35 express our appreciation to council for the
11:18:36 opportunity to voice our opposition to the request for
11:18:39 4(COP-X) wet zoning for the retreat tavern located
11:18:42 directly across Hyde Park Avenue from our church.
11:18:46 A 4(COP-X) wet zoning, by the way, is not incidental
11:18:50 sales of alcohol.
11:18:52 While we as a church by spiritual and Biblical
11:18:57 convictions stand 100% opposed to alcoholic beverages
11:19:00 for recreational purposes is not an attempt to demean
11:19:03 those who do nor pick up the pieces left in the wake
11:19:07 of those for whom recreation has turned to abuse.
11:19:11 There are many examples of highly successful
11:19:14 restaurants either with no wet zoning or with no more
11:19:16 than the current 1(COP) license now held by the
11:19:19 retreat tavern.
11:19:21 We do recognize that it is accepted norm in the food
11:19:24 service industry, to a large part of success of an
11:19:27 upscale restaurant is based on the sales of alcoholic
11:19:31 We do feel, however, that the granting of a full
11:19:34 4(COP-X) unrestricted sales of alcohol in the face of
11:19:38 the very code restricting this type of activity, and
11:19:41 the direct proximity to the church and the two
11:19:43 playgrounds it maintains, is both an inappropriate and
11:19:48 unnecessary for the success of any restaurant, and an
11:19:53 affront to our institution.
11:19:55 We know the effects of the current wet zoning with the
11:19:57 presence of periodic disruption of our services and or
11:20:01 functions by those in the frequent presence of
11:20:05 panhandlers who patrol our parking lots that I have
11:20:08 seen personally because of their stated noticed for
11:20:11 food or medical attention only to watch them walk
11:20:13 straight to the retreat upon receiving the money.
11:20:16 While this may not be the intent of the current
11:20:17 management of the property when this operation fails
11:20:20 as it likely will due to lack of substantive adjacent
11:20:24 parking, the granting of a totally unrestrict sale of
11:20:27 alcohol wet zoning remains with the property and would
11:20:30 open the door for any and everything.
11:20:32 We also feel that the presence of any additional
11:20:35 traffic, vehicular or pedestrian, in the area under
11:20:38 the influence of alcohol represents both a nuisance
11:20:41 and a danger to those children and the playgrounds
11:20:43 into the church congregation who are involved in both
11:20:46 daily and nightly activities five to six days weekly.
11:20:50 Further, since there is relatively little adjacent
11:20:53 on-street parking in the vicinity of the retreat, and
11:20:57 the lot belonging to the church is the nearest
11:20:59 available parking and it is committed in both AM
11:21:05 and p.m. hours we feel this would cause the church to
11:21:07 have unnecessary expenses for parking lot management
11:21:10 and control.
11:21:11 We therefore stand completely opposed to any granting
11:21:14 of variance for 4(COP-X) license, and question if the
11:21:18 actual purpose of the perspective tenant is to be an
11:21:23 upscale restaurant, why any licensure beyond the
11:21:26 current license is required.
11:21:30 In the interest of time, council may want to ask for
11:21:33 those who are here to speak in opposition simply to
11:21:38 Thank you for your hearing and consideration of this
11:21:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:21:42 Next speaker.
11:21:48 >>> Good morning.
11:21:50 My name is Anthony petit.
11:21:53 I have been sworn in this morning.
11:21:56 My wife and I are members of First Baptist Church,
11:21:59 which is located across the street from the property
11:22:02 in question.
11:22:04 And also our family attends First Baptist Church.
11:22:09 I wonder, if I could, to point out a couple things on
11:22:12 the map that's been presented as part of the record.
11:22:21 The subject property is right here.
11:22:24 Our church owns the block immediately to the east.
11:22:27 This block immediately to the south east, this block,
11:22:31 with the exception of this, which is a TECO substation
11:22:37 N.this particular block immediately across the Street,
11:22:39 you see this area which is our church parking, a
11:22:43 portion of our church parking.
11:22:44 This area right here, where you see this tree, is a
11:22:47 playground that our nursery aged children use and
11:22:52 elementary grade school children use.
11:22:55 This building is our activities building.
11:22:57 It house as gymnasium and many of our evening
11:23:00 activities take place in that gymnasium in which
11:23:03 people that are coming to those activities park in the
11:23:06 And then this is our sanctuary, and educational
11:23:09 building, our do I knowing hall on the next corner and
11:23:12 many people coming to activities in the evening visit
11:23:16 the dining hall and parking in this parking lot.
11:23:22 I am personally opposed to this request for 4(COP-X)
11:23:28 wet zoning.
11:23:29 The issues and the reasons why I am opposed is first
11:23:32 of all there's a lack of off-Street parking that has
11:23:36 been pointed out by previous presenters who today.
11:23:41 And I believe that patrons of this establishment will
11:23:46 use our church's parking and will be an inconvenience
11:23:49 to our church, and it will be a safety hazard for our
11:23:53 church for people who have been drinking in an
11:23:57 establishment such as this, parking in a very close
11:24:01 proximity to a playground that children are using at
11:24:03 night isn't a good combination, in my opinion, to have
11:24:07 that in such close vicinity.
11:24:11 Secondly, as I discussed, we frequently have activity
11:24:17 in the evenings.
11:24:18 We have youth activities.
11:24:19 This past Tuesday night we had a Valentine's evening
11:24:22 activity where several people attended.
11:24:26 And on Sunday and Wednesday nights, our children play
11:24:30 in the playground while their parents are in services
11:24:33 and in between their activities that are in the
11:24:36 activities building.
11:24:48 The last thing I want to speak on is the ordinance
11:24:51 3-70 (A-6) that I believe applies to this particular
11:24:54 And first speak on section 2 of 3-70.
11:25:04 And these apply to all alcoholic beverage zoning
11:25:08 classifications and include first in subsection 2 the
11:25:11 subject property of the petition cannot be within 1
11:25:13 that you feet from an established church, public or
11:25:16 private school, hospital, public recreation area,
11:25:19 park --
11:25:23 (Bell sounds).
11:25:24 >>CHAIRMAN: Time is up.
11:25:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I wanted to hear.
11:25:27 >>> Daycare center, halfway House, alcoholic
11:25:29 rehabilitation center or governmental bidding used for
11:25:32 governmental purposes.
11:25:34 The university and the church are within that 1,000
11:25:36 feet restriction.
11:25:37 In subsection 6, except as prohibited by terms of
11:25:41 subgraph 9 in this article set below, the City Council
11:25:45 may waive the restrictions as to distance set forth in
11:25:48 subsections A, 2, 3 and 4 of this section when there
11:25:52 is or will be built upon the subject property a bona
11:25:54 fide restaurant, hotel, motel, or other retail
11:25:58 business establishment, wherein the sale of alcoholic
11:26:00 beverages will be entirely incidental to the primary
11:26:05 function of the establishment.
11:26:09 Entirely incidental.
11:26:11 I looked up the definition, and entirely incidental in
11:26:15 Webster's collegiate dictionary, and that is the
11:26:18 chance or undesigned feature of something, casual,
11:26:22 minor, of secondary importance, as incidental expense,
11:26:26 liable to happen, or to follow as a chance feature of
11:26:29 the incident.
11:26:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
11:26:32 >>> With the bar requesting a 4(COP-X) license, I
11:26:35 don't believe that the sale of liquor will be
11:26:37 incidental to this particular establishment.
11:26:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, sir.
11:26:42 Next speaker.
11:26:46 >>> Richard Branson.
11:26:48 I have been sworn in.
11:26:49 I'm chairman of deacons at First Baptist Church and I
11:26:51 will not repeat the reasons just given.
11:26:54 But as we have discussed with the deacon body at the
11:26:56 church, and my wife has grown up in this church, two
11:27:01 children growing up in this church, that we are
11:27:02 unanimously opposed to this petition.
11:27:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Harrison alluded to before when
11:27:09 the university dean was up, how would the community,
11:27:14 the church, respond or react if this application was
11:27:17 converted to a 4(COP-R), 4(COP-R) requires that the
11:27:24 use would have to sell more food, 51% food compared to
11:27:31 any liquor.
11:27:32 >>> Well, I think if you look at cafe European, now
11:27:38 they advertise their wine bar in capital letters, and
11:27:46 Would that change our opinion?
11:27:47 >> Because what I said before, 4(COP-R).
11:27:53 >>> They are also further down.
11:27:54 And they are not using our parking lot.
11:27:57 >> Thank you.
11:27:59 >>> Next.
11:27:59 >> My name is Patrick.
11:28:02 I have been sworn in.
11:28:03 I'm in internal medicine in pediatric physician here
11:28:07 at Tampa.
11:28:08 I worked for many years at Tampa general.
11:28:14 I have lived on Davis Island at 480 ATAXIA Avenue for
11:28:19 over 4 years.
11:28:20 I am in full support of the rezoning to grant the
11:28:22 liquor license for the retreat location.
11:28:24 As a resident there at Davis Island I have driven by
11:28:26 this location for many years.
11:28:28 And I have actually seen no improvements on the block
11:28:31 in the past ten years.
11:28:32 The block is always full of vagrants and always been a
11:28:35 dirty dive bar especially in that area.
11:28:37 Ever since the retreat has been taken over by Richard,
11:28:40 he made tremendous improvements on the block, much
11:28:44 needed painting exterior and interior of the building.
11:28:48 I strongly feel you should approve the rezoning to
11:28:50 allow him to serve full service restaurant and embrace
11:28:54 the idea of the establishment of the historic retreat
11:28:57 which was established in 1938 as a full service
11:28:59 restaurant hear in Tampa.
11:29:01 The historical retreat and expansion from beer only to
11:29:04 full service restaurant is a much needed upgrade to
11:29:07 this area and to the betterment of the City of Tampa.
11:29:09 Locals on Davis Island where I live as well as
11:29:12 physicians from Tampa general as well as faculty from
11:29:14 the University of Tampa or surrounding businesses,
11:29:19 would gladly welcome a casual dining, full dining
11:29:23 experience there.
11:29:24 If the rezoning is not approved it would be a great
11:29:26 disappointment to have the retreat remain as a
11:29:29 beer-only location.
11:29:32 Instead of a full service restaurant restoring the
11:29:34 history of Tampa at the retreat.
11:29:36 In order to be a well respected restaurant competitive
11:29:38 with other nearby restaurants, the retreat absolutely
11:29:41 needs the option of serving liquor.
11:29:46 NIVA plant is in the vicinity of the retreat.
11:29:51 They are in close proximity to university of Tampa and
11:29:54 to the churches.
11:29:55 And there has been no negative repercussions in the
11:29:58 surrounding community because of it.
11:29:59 There's in a reason why the retreat and restaurant
11:30:02 should not achieve the same status.
11:30:06 Please allow the row zoning and allow the retreat to
11:30:09 become a full service restaurant and preserve the
11:30:12 historic restaurant which is necessary and also will
11:30:15 help advance Tampa for the betterment of the
11:30:18 Thank you.
11:30:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:30:20 Next speaker.
11:30:26 >> Ronald Weaver, 401 East Jackson Street.
11:30:29 I have been sworn.
11:30:30 I have a little different bit of history than whatever
11:30:33 the 1938 starting at the retreat was.
11:30:36 In 1859 this church began her and one of its many
11:30:40 missions was Bayshore Baptist church and the Beulah
11:30:43 Baptist church and dozens of other missions.
11:30:44 The only way it's going to stay alive to go on for our
11:30:47 children -- and we have been there 32 years in this
11:30:49 church and I was chairman of the deacons in 1985 to
11:30:52 1986, when we bought the office building that's on the
11:30:55 northwest edge of that entire three-block assembly
11:30:59 that is our church.
11:31:01 So we actually owned that office building that has
11:31:03 tenants in it.
11:31:04 The effect of unrestricted sales, you all know, can be
11:31:09 The effect on parking and ability for our kids to ever
11:31:12 get in and out thereof safely and the consequences of
11:31:14 the loss of that area to our church and the church's
11:31:18 function and the church's serenity and the ability of
11:31:20 our kids, to actually be able to play there and us be
11:31:24 able to park there and be able to bring guests and
11:31:27 friends there, the church really functions five or six
11:31:30 hours a day, four or five days a weak, and those are
11:31:33 hours when competition for parking would mean that we
11:31:36 already establish with the mission would lose the
11:31:39 ability all of the competition for parking, the
11:31:42 unrestricted sales wore create to the detriment of the
11:31:45 church, but you have a decision whether to grant a
11:31:48 waiver based upon the circumstances.
11:31:49 With all due respect, there's a lot of circumstances
11:31:53 under which the combination of the ongoing mission of
11:31:55 the church since 1859 and those children and those
11:31:59 playgrounds and the needs for the church to function
11:32:02 of that parking are compatible with this kind of a
11:32:05 6,000 -- 6,313 square feet with all that competition
11:32:10 for parking.
11:32:11 Yes, Mr. Harrison.
11:32:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Let him fin.
11:32:18 Are you finished?
11:32:19 >>> I am.
11:32:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Now Mr. Harrison.
11:32:20 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Does the church have a daycare
11:32:23 >>> It has had over the years.
11:32:25 25 of the last 27 years it has maintained a daycare
11:32:29 It doesn't currently have one but it had one most of
11:32:32 its life and in fact it has an active daycare during
11:32:35 church events.
11:32:36 So, yes, it has an ongoing daycare.
11:32:39 We had a full-time, five-day a week daycare until
11:32:42 about five months ago, six months ago.
11:32:45 And we might resume one.
11:32:46 We have had one in 95% of our church life.
11:32:49 An independent daycare center morning and evening and
11:32:52 we have the facilities still for it.
11:32:55 So he would may or may not resume it.
11:32:58 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Thank you for coming down.
11:32:59 You are here as a member of the First Baptist Church?
11:33:01 >>> Yes.
11:33:02 >> And you are not being paid to be here today?
11:33:06 >>> No.
11:33:07 32 years of my kids growing up in this church.
11:33:09 This is more payment than I ever received at this
11:33:12 podium the last 30 years.
11:33:13 >> Just wanted to make sure it was clear on the
11:33:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker?
11:33:23 >>> I'm Harvey PARADOE, president of Bryn Allen
11:33:29 studios, owner of five buildings and one photography
11:33:32 studio on the Grand Central and Kennedy area.
11:33:35 We oppose this license.
11:33:41 We believe there is one, one, not sufficient parking
11:33:44 for the retreat.
11:33:45 We own a lot of parking there.
11:33:47 Well over 100,000 square feet of building space in
11:33:50 that area is our parking.
11:33:55 There's a complete difference.
11:33:57 NISAN Platt has allocated parking.
11:34:01 The Retreat as far as we do No does not have a parking
11:34:04 lot tide to its building so we oppose that for lack of
11:34:08 parking space we think the retreat will generate to be
11:34:11 a successful operation will take a lot of parking
11:34:15 And we therefore will be fighting to get people from
11:34:18 retreat out of our parking spaces for our tenants.
11:34:21 Secondly, as president of Bryn Allen studios, we are
11:34:25 concerned about the students that come to our
11:34:29 We photographed hi school seniors, approximately
11:34:32 10,000 kids during the course of a year.
11:34:35 We are very, very concerned about our seniors coming
11:34:40 in the evenings and the afternoons an so forth and
11:34:43 being having to find parking spaces and, two, being
11:34:48 bothered by people at the bar.
11:34:49 We have been in locations where there are sports bars,
11:34:51 and I would call this a sports bar, and we have had to
11:34:55 move our locations away from sports bars.
11:35:00 And we do not want to do that.
11:35:01 We are a proud member of the Tampa heritage for over
11:35:04 70 years and when want to stay that way.
11:35:06 Thank you very much.
11:35:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:35:17 >>> Good morning, City Council.
11:35:21 And people that are here to talk about this ordinance.
11:35:25 My name is Paul Hoffstetter and I have been sworn in.
11:35:28 I'm a commercial real estate broker.
11:35:31 And I have been in that capacity and served the Hyde
11:35:35 Park area as well as all over Tampa for over 20 years.
11:35:39 I currently manage over 100,000 square feet of office
11:35:43 and retail space in the Hyde Park area.
11:35:46 And I understand very well the day-to-day activities
11:35:51 that go on there.
11:35:52 I understand the businesses that operate there.
11:35:55 And I understand what would occur if another
11:35:59 restaurant were added to Hyde Park.
11:36:03 That didn't have its own off-street parking.
11:36:11 What I have noticed as recent as last Friday, I
11:36:15 counted parking spaces.
11:36:17 And this restaurant has not opened yet.
11:36:19 But there were only 19 parking spaces available on the
11:36:24 Now, I'm certain that the customers of this
11:36:28 restaurant, should it be allowed to open, especially
11:36:32 with a 4(COP-X) license where it would have denser
11:36:36 activity in the sense that there are bar stools, and
11:36:40 more or people in the space, would rely heavily on the
11:36:46 neighbor's parking.
11:36:47 I currently manage that parking, five different
11:36:50 parking lots, and as Mr. Pardo mentioned, Nissan Plant
11:36:59 is one of the buildings I manage.
11:37:02 They don't have off-street parking except when it is
11:37:05 the convenience of space next to their facility is
11:37:08 available people will park there.
11:37:10 They are going to park as close to the front doctor as
11:37:13 Well, there's also a hair salon existing in the
11:37:16 current building, you know.
11:37:17 And hair salons, if you want to open a new hair salon
11:37:21 in Tampa you need a 10 per thousand parking ratio of
11:37:25 on street parking. The current hair salon has in a
11:37:29 parking so the owners of this building have currently
11:37:31 a restaurant, cafe European, and they have a hair
11:37:36 salon both requiring a lot of parking.
11:37:39 And they are relying totally on the street.
11:37:42 However, the reality of it is, as a property manager,
11:37:48 I have people parking in these lots all the time.
11:37:52 And I issue warnings and put them on the car to say,
11:37:56 you will be towed if you park here again.
11:38:00 As recently as yesterday I had to put five of these on
11:38:03 I don't have the time to do it.
11:38:04 And then after hours, they will be filling the lots
11:38:10 And, you know, the time it takes, and the cost to my
11:38:14 company, and to my clients, will be tremendous,
11:38:18 because they are going to have to pay for parking
11:38:21 security on a constant basis.
11:38:24 This building essentially has only a few spaces behind
11:38:28 And it operates several businesses.
11:38:30 And the hair salon, an existing restaurant, adding a
11:38:38 larger restaurant that does a higher volume of
11:38:40 business, would cause their customers to park on all
11:38:44 these private lots.
11:38:45 And then there's insurance issues.
11:38:47 There are people that have been drinking.
11:38:48 (Bell sounds).
11:38:49 We have great concern about the impact of it.
11:38:51 And late at night, if I'm having cars towed and
11:38:56 someone has been drinking and I have their car towed
11:38:59 the result will be probably some kind of
11:39:01 It's not going to be a good situation.
11:39:05 I'll refer to --
11:39:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Can you wrap it up?
11:39:08 >>> Yes, I will.
11:39:11 The other thing is, the spot at the street, Kennedy
11:39:16 and Hyde Park Avenue, I have written letters to the
11:39:18 city traffic department.
11:39:20 I have written letters to the D.O.T.
11:39:23 And really don't get any results.
11:39:26 It's a one-way street, Hyde Park Avenue, intersects
11:39:30 with Kennedy.
11:39:31 There's a traffic light.
11:39:33 But people can turn left from Kennedy onto Hyde Park
11:39:37 Avenue, and they do it at a rapid rate when they are
11:39:39 doing the shift change at Tampa general.
11:39:44 What this is --
11:39:47 >>GWEN MILLER: You have to wrap it up.
11:39:49 Your time is up.
11:39:51 >>> It's going to create a traffic hazard, a safety
11:39:53 hazard, and it's impossible to manage the parking when
11:39:57 you have an additional restaurant with in off-street
11:40:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, sir.
11:40:01 Next speaker.
11:40:19 >>> I have not been sworn in.
11:40:20 (Oath administered by Clerk).
11:40:27 >> In private practice of awarding these liquor
11:40:30 establishments, a lot of it goes back to parking
11:40:32 issues and so on and so forth.
11:40:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Put your name on the roared.
11:40:35 >>> I'm sorry.
11:40:37 Eddie Diaz.
11:40:38 I also feel that part of this process should address
11:40:40 the parties that are involved with the liquor license.
11:40:43 Although I have no personal -- animosity, I basically
11:40:51 have had personal experience with people asking for
11:40:57 the wet zoning in a previous spot and I have seen them
11:40:59 take a well established high-end nightclub and turn it
11:41:02 into an alternative bar.
11:41:05 Outside of that, also turn around and vacate the
11:41:08 residents -- or vacate the property and ended up in
11:41:15 So in addressing this to you, please also look into
11:41:18 the backgrounds of a lot of your applicants and find
11:41:22 out their history in business.
11:41:25 Because that, as the University of Tampa says, maybe
11:41:28 they are going to do it right, what they did for a
11:41:31 long time, but when times are hard they'll do whatever
11:41:34 it takes to pay the bills.
11:41:35 Thank you.
11:41:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:41:36 Would anyone else like to speak?
11:41:39 You cannot speak again.
11:41:41 >>> There are 40 other people that would like to stand
11:41:43 >>GWEN MILLER: I'll recognize them.
11:41:46 Anyone else want to speak?
11:41:51 Have you been sworn in?
11:41:52 >>> Yes, I did.
11:41:54 I raised my right hand.
11:41:56 >>> Put your name on the record and speak.
11:41:57 >>> My name is NONA Jones.
11:42:01 And I'm a church goer.
11:42:02 And I'm a Christian.
11:42:04 And I love the church.
11:42:06 And I came think the church should come first.
11:42:09 Anyway, though, everybody wanted to drink beer before
11:42:17 So beer and wine can be served at the restaurant.
11:42:20 That's all I have to say.
11:42:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else lick to speak?
11:42:24 If you did not speak and you are in opposition, would
11:42:26 you please stand if you are in opposition?
11:42:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Wow.
11:42:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner, do you want rebuttal?
11:42:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Could I ask before he goes, could I
11:42:39 ask the pastor a question?
11:42:51 >>> Yes, sir.
11:42:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Trying to will for any middle
11:42:55 ground on this.
11:42:57 Is it the official church position that you are
11:42:59 opposed to any change in the liquor status of this
11:43:04 property at all, regardless of whether or not a
11:43:08 compromise might be 2(COP-R), beer and wine only, with
11:43:11 a restaurant?
11:43:13 51% food, et cetera?
11:43:15 Is that something you need to take back to your board
11:43:18 and discuss and perhaps look for a continuance on
11:43:21 >>> I probably would have to if we were going to
11:43:24 accept anything as a matter of record beyond the
11:43:28 1(COP) license they currently have.
11:43:32 >> Probably have to take it back and talk about it?
11:43:35 >>> Ware also not trying to be unreasonable in terms
11:43:37 of establishments in the area.
11:43:39 We want to be a good neighbor with everybody.
11:43:42 At the same time, it's a matter of conscious --
11:43:46 conscience and conviction.
11:43:48 >> Do you need a little more time perhaps?
11:43:50 >>> Yes, sir.
11:43:50 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I don't think I ever heard of a
11:43:55 What is a 1(COP)?
11:43:57 Beer only?
11:43:58 >>> Beer only.
11:44:01 >> Is that something like prohibition or something?
11:44:04 >>> It's a category within the county and the city.
11:44:09 >> The 1(COP) allows them -- there's no restriction on
11:44:13 food, right?
11:44:17 >>> It is just 1(COP).
11:44:19 So the area by the 1(COP) is not tied to any
11:44:25 Part of it is the 1(COP-R).
11:44:30 Part of the property has in a wet zoning at all.
11:44:32 >>GWEN MILLER: So part of it has wet zoning?
11:44:34 >>> Yes.
11:44:37 Perhaps you could have staff.
11:44:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Part of it has 1(COP).
11:44:41 >>> Part of it has 1(COP).
11:44:43 Part has 1(COP-R) and part is not wet zoned at all.
11:44:47 >>SHAWN HARRISON: It seams to me the way to go here --
11:44:50 and I am not pre-judging and I want everybody to have
11:44:54 their chance but it seems lick what everyone is saying
11:44:56 is we want this place to have a fighting chance at
11:44:59 becoming successful, well established restaurant.
11:45:02 But we are also hearing that when don't want to let
11:45:05 this go to the point where it can become a nightclub
11:45:08 which passes with the land and once these responsible
11:45:12 owners decide to sell, we don't know what we are going
11:45:14 to have there.
11:45:15 So if we were to do 2(COP-R), or 4(COP-R), on the
11:45:21 whole piece, it limits it to a restaurant use that you
11:45:26 allow, you know, if you go to a 2 you are going to at
11:45:31 lowest allow 1.
11:45:33 If you go to 4 you can allow any liquor to be served
11:45:37 but it's still a restaurant.
11:45:38 You limit it to a restaurant use primarily.
11:45:40 That's correct, Rebecca?
11:45:41 >>REBECCA KERT: Yes, that's correct.
11:45:48 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I want to just caution council before
11:45:51 it engages in the discussion that the petitioner does
11:45:54 have the right to rebuttal and if you wish to hear him
11:45:57 address these concerns before you engage in discussion
11:46:00 amongst yourselves.
11:46:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
11:46:03 I have a question for staff.
11:46:04 Given the picture that's on the Elmo now if staff
11:46:07 could come up.
11:46:08 My understanding is, it's looking at the image that we
11:46:11 are all seeing.
11:46:15 That south is north. The part that's heading
11:46:17 northward is really facing south.
11:46:19 Is that correct?
11:46:23 >>BARBARA LEPORE: This is north.
11:46:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay.
11:46:33 >>> 113 is on the north side.
11:46:36 123 on the south side.
11:46:38 >> Okay.
11:46:38 Do you have a map that you can show us that shows the
11:46:41 existing configuration of what's currently allowed,
11:46:44 where the 2(COP) is, where the -- because I think
11:46:53 that's pretty important for council to see what's
11:46:56 there now.
11:46:58 >>BARBARA LEPORE: In 1995, the map didn't show exactly
11:47:03 the square footage.
11:47:06 >> Okay, we are not talking exact.
11:47:08 If you could kind of show.
11:47:10 Because I think it would be helpful to council to see
11:47:15 how much of the total area that's being requested is
11:47:18 currently zoned for these different uses.
11:47:24 >>> The European parking, this is the area here.
11:47:28 Which is 100 feet.
11:47:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That is not helpful.
11:47:34 What I am asking for, in the bigger one that has the
11:47:38 yellow line, if you could move the one --
11:47:40 >>> I don't have it.
11:47:41 I don't have it.
11:47:42 >> Maybe the petitioner does.
11:47:43 Because the point I'm trying to make is if you look,
11:47:46 if you could please remove the one on top.
11:47:50 If you look at the total request that we are
11:47:55 receiving, it is my understanding that only about --
11:47:59 that less than 50% is currently zoned 2(COP-R).
11:48:03 But the majority of that is maybe 1(COP) and then a
11:48:08 piece of it is nothing.
11:48:10 And so we are talking about in all a very massive
11:48:16 increase in terms of what is being requested.
11:48:19 And I thought it would be helpful to see that on the
11:48:21 In the future, it would be helpful, and people going
11:48:24 from one request to another, to see what they have now
11:48:26 so we can compare it to what -- thank you.
11:48:31 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Ms. LePore, the site plan you showed
11:48:35 us, who does that parking belong to?
11:48:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's not parking.
11:48:40 >>MARY ALVAREZ: It says parking.
11:48:44 >>> It belongs to the owner of this property.
11:48:51 >> It belongs to the owner?
11:48:53 >>> Yes.
11:48:53 >> Mr. Carbaroni?
11:48:56 >>> Yes.
11:48:57 >> All that is his.
11:48:58 How many parking spaces there are?
11:49:03 >>> There are no parking for the property.
11:49:05 They have no parking spaces for the property.
11:49:08 >> There's in parking spaces for the bar?
11:49:13 >>> No.
11:49:14 >> For the public.
11:49:15 >>> There are no parking spaces for the public.
11:49:20 Maybe two or three parking spaces for the employees.
11:49:24 >> So there's in a parking.
11:49:25 So where do they park?
11:49:27 >>> They would park on the street.
11:49:30 At the curb.
11:49:34 >> Okay. Thank you.
11:49:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Diaz, you may come back up now.
11:49:44 >>> Diaz: The southern-most portion of the building
11:49:46 is the one that is 1(COP), grandfathered in.
11:49:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Would you show us on that picture?
11:49:57 >>> That area there.
11:49:59 That is the original retreat.
11:50:01 That has a 1(COP).
11:50:03 So you could do package sales from that location.
11:50:09 The northern end of the building is cafe European
11:50:17 2(COP-R), beer and wine, no package sales, on-premise
11:50:24 consumption only.
11:50:30 >> Would you mind just pointing out the part neither
11:50:34 the above?
11:50:35 >>SHAWN HARRISON: In the middle, what's there now?
11:50:37 >>> No wet zoning.
11:50:38 That's why I told you, there was wet, in a wet, wet.
11:50:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
11:50:42 I really appreciate it.
11:50:43 This is for staff to be paying attention to.
11:50:45 And it shouldn't take away from your time. This is
11:50:47 very important information for council to have in
11:50:50 making these kinds of determinations so in the future
11:50:53 if you could show us that kind of information
11:50:55 graphically, that would be helpful.
11:50:57 You don't have to say anything.
11:50:58 Just do it next time.
11:51:00 Because I wasn't sure about which areas were zoned
11:51:04 what, and the fact is I would say just eyeballing it,
11:51:07 the 70% of the total request is currently without any
11:51:11 kind of liquor zoning and I think that's important
11:51:14 information for council to have.
11:51:15 Thank you.
11:51:17 >>> I think you're close but a little off.
11:51:19 I think it's 40% that is presently wet zoned.
11:51:23 I didn't use the scale.
11:51:24 But I made that computation and 60% is not wet zoned.
11:51:30 I myself am in a little bit of a strange position.
11:51:34 And I will have to deal with this as they spoke.
11:51:37 The University of Tampa comes up and tells you that
11:51:43 wave great values, ware a good operator, they are
11:51:48 against alcohol so close proximity to the school.
11:51:52 You know the University of Tampa is considered a wet
11:51:54 campus, and it is permissible for students to take
11:51:58 alcoholic beverages into their dorms on two floors of
11:52:02 their dorms?
11:52:04 So I have a problem with the university appearing and
11:52:08 telling me they are opposed to alcohol, yet they,
11:52:10 within their own curriculum, make it permissible to
11:52:12 have two floors of their dorms where you have alcohol.
11:52:27 The church.
11:52:27 We extended our hand out five or six times to try to
11:52:30 meet with the church, and nobody would meet with us.
11:52:36 Now I'm hearing a lot of concerns about parking.
11:52:39 You know why some of those parking problems exist?
11:52:43 It's the university of Tampa just built a brand new
11:52:46 dorm for 182 students on the corner of south Hyde Park
11:52:49 Avenue and Kennedy Boulevard.
11:52:51 Where do you think they park?
11:52:54 The university doesn't monitor that.
11:52:56 We are going to monitor that.
11:53:04 He came up an told you he was a realtor but he fails
11:53:07 to -- failed to tell you he's very involved in that
11:53:10 First Baptist Church an and those 19 spaces that he
11:53:12 spoke about, well, I had occasion to meet city and I
11:53:17 talked with city and we dealt with what's the parking
11:53:19 in the area.
11:53:20 And the parking on the area, on-street parking,
11:53:24 between Kennedy Boulevard and Grand Central, there's
11:53:28 18 spaces.
11:53:30 Between Grand Central and clove land, there's 13
11:53:35 On Kennedy Boulevard, between south Hyde Park and
11:53:39 Plant Avenue, there's 21 spaces.
11:53:42 On Grand Central Avenue, between south Hyde Park, and
11:53:46 meets up again with Kennedy Boulevard, there's 55
11:53:50 On cedar Avenue, there's 28 spaces.
11:54:07 They tell you it has a playground, child care, 25 or
11:54:10 27 years.
11:54:12 It's not there now.
11:54:13 The facility is there.
11:54:14 You can drive by there and it's empty.
11:54:17 It's not being utilized.
11:54:19 And I would imagine that even if it was being
11:54:21 utilized, it's being utilized as a child care
11:54:25 facility, I imagine most of those kids are going to go
11:54:27 home by 5:00 in the afternoon, 5:30 in the afternoon.
11:54:35 When I drove by the church and I was curious to see,
11:54:37 what are the hours?
11:54:38 When is this church open?
11:54:40 When are the parishioners here?
11:54:43 According to what they have posted on their building,
11:54:46 they have a Bible study at 9:30 on Sunday mornings.
11:54:49 They have one celebration at 11.
11:54:53 They have a student ministry at 5:30 in the afternoon.
11:54:57 And a family life on Sunday at 6:00.
11:55:03 In addition to those four on Wednesday nights at 6:45,
11:55:05 they have a WOW service.
11:55:10 We trade to meet with the church to see if there was
11:55:13 some way when could maybe lease their property from
11:55:15 They never wanted to talk from us.
11:55:17 We went, and we met.
11:55:19 With the university.
11:55:20 And sat with them with Tampa alcoholic coalition.
11:55:25 They told them what kind of operators we were.
11:55:27 And that's why he can stand before you and tell you we
11:55:32 don't have a basic problem with them, it's just
11:55:38 Then I think they ought to take the alcohol out of the
11:55:40 student dorms.
11:55:51 We'll gladly accept an R.
11:55:53 We'll take an R.
11:55:55 In a problems.
11:55:56 We even told the University of Tampa, you want to put
11:55:58 some stipulations, some conditions on this wet zoning?
11:56:02 We'll accept those, too.
11:56:05 We are not here to be a jock bar.
11:56:10 We are going to be spending too much money in, excess
11:56:12 of a half million dollar in developing this project.
11:56:16 We want to be a good neighbor.
11:56:18 We have been a good neighbor.
11:56:21 We would ask that you approve it.
11:56:22 And you're telling me -- we have in a objections to
11:56:27 amending the application to 4(COP-R) whatsoever.
11:56:31 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I would like to ask a question of Ms.
11:56:35 LePore or somebody on staff.
11:56:41 The report says that the wet zoning will contain 6,632
11:56:47 square feet.
11:56:48 How many parking spaces do you Ned for that?
11:56:52 >>> Actually, I don't have the site plan about the
11:56:57 building layout, and it's determined by the formula
11:57:02 which contains other, but without waiting area, 60
11:57:13 The kitchen area, faux preparation, I don't have that
11:57:18 We don't follow that information during the
11:57:24 So I don't know what to say.
11:57:27 But actually to go by the various site, the parking
11:57:33 spaces and to approve the permit for the restaurant.
11:57:42 >>REBECCA KERT: I would like to make a few comments.
11:57:44 But to address that last one.
11:57:45 The parking is not usually considered during this
11:57:49 They are not required to demonstrate that they have
11:57:51 adequate parking.
11:57:52 That is something I will let you know that we are
11:57:54 looking at for future changes in chapter 3 but the way
11:57:57 if code is current written, they need to go through
11:58:00 Construction Services Center so they are not required
11:58:03 to demonstrate that.
11:58:04 >> Well, it's a problem.
11:58:06 I mean, you have got a 6,632 square foot building that
11:58:11 you are wanting to wet zone, where are the people
11:58:15 going to park?
11:58:17 I know Mr. Diaz is talking about 13 spaces here, 21
11:58:20 spaces there.
11:58:23 And then talking about the parking lot for the First
11:58:27 Baptist Church.
11:58:28 But it doesn't belong to them.
11:58:30 It belongs to somebody else.
11:58:33 And they are certainly not amenable to renting it or
11:58:36 leasing it.
11:58:37 So I'm just wondering where is everybody going to
11:58:39 In the street?
11:58:41 I guess that's it.
11:58:43 I don't know.
11:58:46 Mr. Diaz, I believe that you said you would be -- you
11:58:51 would be willing to do some conditions.
11:58:56 >>> Ms. Alvarez, as we understand it, you are going to
11:58:58 have to go and deal with the parking issue with the
11:59:02 variance review board.
11:59:04 This is not going to be settled here today.
11:59:05 We understand that.
11:59:07 We attempted to reach an agreement with the church.
11:59:10 Apparently they didn't so we are not going to use
11:59:12 their property.
11:59:12 I not available to us.
11:59:13 And we understand that.
11:59:15 I do want you to keep something in mind.
11:59:17 Let's assume, which I hope you don't, but let's just
11:59:21 assume that you reject this.
11:59:22 You already have the 1(COP) zoning with its parking
11:59:28 demand here, you already have the 2(COP-R) at the
11:59:30 other extreme where this demand, and you have the
11:59:33 retail center and space with its demands there.
11:59:36 And so let's just assume that we put a game room
11:59:44 We don't have to come back to council.
11:59:46 It's commercially zoned property.
11:59:48 So I think if you really want some controls, if you
11:59:51 give us the zoning, we are going to have to deal with
11:59:54 it when we go to the variance review board.
11:59:58 But there are already parking demands there.
12:00:02 As for the cafe European anti-and for the retreat.
12:00:06 >> The problem is we are going to be exacerbating the
12:00:09 >> That may not be necessarily so.
12:00:11 A lot depends on how you made out.
12:00:14 Yes, it is true we are going to increase the square
12:00:17 However, if you look at the size of the existing
12:00:20 2(COP), there's no way that we can do this operation
12:00:25 with that size of a kitchen.
12:00:26 So when we go in there and you devote the kind of
12:00:29 space these shown on that floor plan to a kitchen,
12:00:34 The parking requirement is much less.
12:00:36 So when can't operate a 6600 square foot facility with
12:00:40 the kitchen.
12:00:48 The cafe European, we can't do it.
12:00:51 >>GWEN MILLER: You stated that you would go to a
12:00:55 >>> Yes, ma'am.
12:00:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Would you meet with the church and
12:00:57 discuss it with them and see if they are agreeable
12:00:59 with that, talk with them --
12:01:03 >>> We have no problem meeting with the church, we'll
12:01:05 meet with the university, we'll meet with anybody.
12:01:07 >>GWEN MILLER: So we'll need to continue this and let
12:01:09 you meet with them and then come back.
12:01:12 >>> If that's what the council wants.
12:01:13 I would.
12:01:15 >>CHAIRMAN: I would like you to meet with the church
12:01:16 and discuss that and then come back.
12:01:19 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Move to continue.
12:01:20 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Let's make sure we are all
12:01:23 understanding what you are going to talk to them
12:01:26 >>> I guess what I am going to talk to them about is
12:01:28 that I am willing to amend my petition from a 4(COP-X)
12:01:33 to a 4(COP-R).
12:01:37 >> I thought we were talking about a 2(COP-R).
12:01:39 >>> I never mentioned a 2(COP-R).
12:01:44 I never mentioned the 2(COP-R).
12:01:46 >>MARY ALVAREZ: If you would be amenable to that.
12:01:48 >>> I'm sorry, I didn't hear that, ma'am.
12:01:51 I apologize.
12:01:53 Always Alvarez she said an R.
12:01:55 >>GWEN MILLER: 2(COP-R).
12:01:58 >>> 2(COP-R).
12:02:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Whale you are thinking, Mrs. Saul-Sena?
12:02:06 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Here's my thought.
12:02:08 I would be more comfortable with a 2(COP-R) as well.
12:02:11 Because you have got that already.
12:02:13 With the cafe Europe, whatever that one is.
12:02:16 And on the south side you have got a 1(COP) which all
12:02:19 of us have never heard of before.
12:02:21 But that means you can sell beer without regard to
12:02:25 restaurant service at any time that you want as long
12:02:27 as it's legal under state law.
12:02:29 So what we are doing by going with the 2(COP-R) in the
12:02:33 middle is we are sort of bridging that.
12:02:36 We are just extending the restaurant use which is
12:02:38 already there.
12:02:40 It is not unheard of for this council to go from a
12:02:43 2(COP-R) to a 4(COP-R) after an establishment has been
12:02:48 somewhere and has proven that they can be a good
12:02:50 But if we are walking -- if we are crawling before we
12:02:54 can walk here.
12:02:55 And we are asking everybody to sort of meet in the
12:02:58 For my way of thinking the 2(COP-R) would probably be
12:03:00 the way to go as well.
12:03:03 >>> Can you give me one second?
12:03:05 >>CHAIRMAN: Sure.
12:03:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Whale he's taking a second, if I
12:03:09 The other part of the discussion that I want to hear
12:03:12 hopefully happening between the community, the
12:03:14 university, the church, and this petitioner, is a
12:03:17 discussion about a one-year conditional.
12:03:20 We have done a one-year conditional in the past.
12:03:24 Mr. Diaz, I'm talking about a one-year conditional and
12:03:26 I'm throwing that at you, also.
12:03:28 We have done one-year conditional in the past when we
12:03:30 have extremely sensitive locations that we are not
12:03:33 really sure about when it comes to compatibility
12:03:35 issues and the like.
12:03:37 And if things don't work out after a year, regardless
12:03:41 whether or not it's parking or the alcohol issues, or
12:03:44 whatever it is, then no matter what, they have to come
12:03:47 back after that one year to start all over again
12:03:52 regardless what it is they are looking for.
12:03:54 So I want the conditional thing to be part of that
12:03:57 dialogue that you have with your client, Mr. Diaz, as
12:04:01 well as with the church.
12:04:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Before you do that, it's incumbent
12:04:09 upon me to let you know it is 12:00.
12:04:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to waive the rules.
12:04:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Five minutes that we need to get number
12:04:17 11 and 12.
12:04:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm not moving on that necessarily.
12:04:20 I'll move just to finish this discussion.
12:04:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Then we need to talk about that.
12:04:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll move to finish this
12:04:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
12:04:29 (Motion carried)
12:04:33 What is your decision?
12:04:35 >>> We are going to hold an olive branch out that
12:04:38 we'll take a 2(COP-R), and we are telling you that we
12:04:43 have every intention, once we have proven to people
12:04:48 who we are that we are going to come back for a
12:04:50 4(COP-R) and that will be another day.
12:04:52 But I am not willing to accept a conditional.
12:04:55 Here's why.
12:04:56 I have got a 1(COP) now and a 2(COP-R).
12:04:59 If you give me a 2(COP-R) and for any reason I have
12:05:05 got to deal with you don't want to renew it a year
12:05:08 from now, then I have lost my 1(COP), I have lost my
12:05:11 2(COP-R), so that maybe you can give me a 2(COP-R) in
12:05:14 the middle, I'll be honest with you, we'll go to a
12:05:18 2(COP-R), but we are not going to take a conditional,
12:05:22 because if it is, we'll pack it up, we'll keep our
12:05:25 2(COP-R) where it's at, we'll keep our 1(COP) where
12:05:28 it's at and we don't have to come back in a year.
12:05:30 And I am not trying to seem fresh or rude about it but
12:05:35 we are going to spend a lot of money up here, and then
12:05:37 we are going to be sitting on this conditional.
12:05:40 I can't recommend that to my client.
12:05:42 I can't do it.
12:05:44 Take the 2(COP-R), unconditional.
12:05:50 Or turn us down.
12:05:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I am really familiar with this
12:05:55 And I think that the conditional is a necessary part
12:06:00 of my support so I will not be supporting a flat out
12:06:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think the suggestion is a
12:06:07 continuance right now.
12:06:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Well, I just heard from the
12:06:11 petitioner that there is no point in having that
12:06:12 continuance because he's not willing to suggest a
12:06:15 So we have all these folks here.
12:06:16 I say vote it up or down.
12:06:21 >>MARY ALVAREZ: What he's going to do is meet with the
12:06:23 church, I guess.
12:06:24 Right, Mr. Diaz?
12:06:26 >>> I have in a problems meeting with the church and
12:06:29 explaining why I place this limitation on it.
12:06:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And the university.
12:06:34 >>> I have no problems --
12:06:36 >>MARY ALVAREZ: The reason to continue this is to talk
12:06:39 to the people that are here.
12:06:41 Pardon me.
12:06:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm shaking my head because Mr.
12:06:46 Diaz has stated that he is not interested in log at
12:06:49 the 2(COP-R) conditionally.
12:06:51 And I think with over 60% of the property up for
12:06:55 grabs, I don't see why we should continue this
12:06:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Fletcher?
12:07:01 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I recognize that to run a
12:07:04 restaurant with just the beer and wine can be
12:07:10 I find, I'm sure everybody else does, it will only go
12:07:13 a restaurant where they have a full bar and enjoy a
12:07:17 martini or whatever it is for dinner.
12:07:19 But I understand councilman Saul-Sena's concern about
12:07:23 having conditional versus permanent license.
12:07:27 And I was just throwing out having a 4(COP-R)
12:07:32 conditional on a year be something that would be more
12:07:36 conducive if after meeting with the church and other
12:07:38 folks that they are receptive to that?
12:07:40 Or are you in a position where you are better, you
12:07:44 feel it's better to take what you have got than risk
12:07:47 losing everything altogether?
12:07:49 >>> Mr. Fletcher, we appreciate that offer.
12:07:52 But how do I justify to my client that spent a half
12:07:56 million dollar and then going to have to come back in
12:07:58 a year and see whether or not the Baptist church is
12:08:01 still in opposition to some wet zoning in this area?
12:08:05 How do I deal with that?
12:08:06 How do I explain that to my client?
12:08:09 I have a real problem with that.
12:08:12 >> Just to kind of see --
12:08:13 >>> I appreciate the offer but I have a problem with
12:08:15 >>GWEN MILLER: So what is the pleasure of council?
12:08:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My motion would be for denial.
12:08:21 >>GWEN MILLER: We have to close the public hearing.
12:08:24 Ms. Kert?
12:08:25 >>REBECCA KERT: Especially if City Council is going to
12:08:28 be considering denial I have to -- also chapter 166
12:08:34 you are going to have to site the criteria that you
12:08:36 are denying it.
12:08:38 Briefly what they are asking for here is now it's a
12:08:42 2(COP-R), beer and wine in connection with a
12:08:44 If they do not need any waivers, they would be
12:08:47 entitled to that 2(COP-R).
12:08:50 However, they are asking for waivers from the church,
12:08:53 the school, other alcoholic beverage establishments,
12:08:56 and residential property.
12:09:00 The applicant has the burden to prove by substantial
12:09:03 and competent evidence that they meat the criteria in
12:09:07 the code to be entitled to that waiver.
12:09:08 The criteria in your code is that the sale of
12:09:11 alcoholic beverages will be entirely incidental to the
12:09:14 primary function of the establishment.
12:09:15 If they demonstrate that, then they should be entitled
12:09:19 to the waiver, and the wet zoning, unless council
12:09:24 finds that there is substantial competent evidence in
12:09:26 the record that they don't meet that exception, and
12:09:29 that it is to the public interest and that is
12:09:33 contained in section 370, section 2, 3, 4 and 6.
12:09:40 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Well, I don't think that thereby
12:09:42 they're has been any evidence put on the record today
12:09:45 that they would be able to meat or not meet the "R"
12:09:50 specifics because that was thrown in here as a
12:09:53 compromise position at the last minute.
12:09:54 So I think we have got in a choice now but to continue
12:09:57 this for the consideration of a 2(COP-R), not
12:10:03 conditional, 2(COP-R), over the entire piece of
12:10:08 property, and now you all got to the church and talk
12:10:12 to them to see if this is something you can work out
12:10:14 between yourselves and we'll come back here on the
12:10:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If that's a motion I am going to
12:10:20 second it.
12:10:20 I think that's a compromise that I think the church
12:10:22 and the university have indicated a willingness to at
12:10:25 left talk about.
12:10:27 Talk about it, they bring it back, let us know
12:10:29 everybody's position, and we'll see where we go from
12:10:32 >> We have a motion and second.
12:10:35 Hold it.
12:10:35 Mr. Shelby?
12:10:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just a clarification.
12:10:38 Councilwoman Saul-Sena's motion was not seconded.
12:10:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Nobody seconded it.
12:10:43 >>> There is a subsequent motion requesting a
12:10:45 I would like to ask for a date and time certain.
12:10:48 Would like to ask petitioner representatives to state
12:10:50 on the record.
12:10:50 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Motion to continue?
12:10:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Linda jumped in.
12:10:56 >>> State what on the record?
12:10:58 >>MARTIN SHELBY: A, do you agree to a continuance with
12:11:00 the parameters set by City Council without objection?
12:11:03 It's your request to have that continue APS and to
12:11:07 have it S set for date AP time certain.
12:11:10 >>> The request is I understand is to talk with the
12:11:12 university and the church with respect to a 2(COP-R),
12:11:15 with no conditions, and that is what I am requesting.
12:11:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Howl how long will it take you, two
12:11:20 weeks, three weeks, what?
12:11:26 >>> Two weeks for sure, I would think.
12:11:28 >> What's two weeks?
12:11:29 >>> March 1st.
12:11:30 >> Okay.
12:11:30 March 1st at 10 a.m.
12:11:32 All in favor of that motion say Aye.
12:11:34 Opposed, Nay.
12:11:41 All right.
12:11:41 Need to waive the rules again.
12:11:46 We them up and they didn't finish.
12:11:48 They won't be able to come back this afternoon.
12:11:51 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Move to extend the meeting for five
12:11:53 >>GWEN MILLER: And committee reports.
12:11:58 >> Wait, wait, wait.
12:12:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Listen to me.
12:12:00 I said building and zoning because number 30 needs to
12:12:03 be passed.
12:12:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think we can continue them to
12:12:07 another meeting on 11 and 12.
12:12:09 >>GWEN MILLER: It's up to you. If you want to
12:12:11 continue, Ms. Saul-Sena and Mr. Dingfelder.
12:12:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: There's nothing pressing on this.
12:12:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Make a motion then.
12:12:16 >> I move to continue 11 and 12 for two weeks.
12:12:20 All right, one week.
12:12:22 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
12:12:23 (Motion carried)
12:12:28 One weak.
12:12:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: All the committee reports?
12:12:33 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Number 14 was set for 11 a.m.
12:12:38 >> We need to waive the rules to go to committee
12:12:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Motion to waive recalls to do
12:12:42 committee reports.
12:12:43 >> Second.
12:12:44 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Why don't we continue 14?
12:12:48 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of that motion.
12:12:51 (Motion carried).
12:12:52 Now, Ms. Alvarez, 14 as well.
12:12:56 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I would like to continue 14 for one
12:12:58 >> Second.
12:12:58 (Motion carried).
12:12:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry, I didn't hear.
12:13:06 >> One week.
12:13:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Oh, I'm so sorry, Mr. LaMotte.
12:13:11 He doesn't mind.
12:13:13 67 committee reports.
12:13:20 Public safety, Mary Alvarez.
12:13:22 >>> Move 15 through 18.
12:13:24 >> Second.
12:13:24 (Motion carried).
12:13:25 >> Parks and recreation, Mr. Fletcher, vice chair.
12:13:37 >> Move items 18 through 22.
12:13:40 >>: Second.
12:13:43 (Motion Carried).
12:13:44 >> Public works, Mr. John Dingfelder.
12:13:46 >> I'll move items 23 through 27.
12:13:49 >> We have a motion and second.
12:13:50 (Motion carried).
12:13:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Finance Committee, Mr. Charles
12:13:55 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: We pulled item number 30.
12:14:05 >>GWEN MILLER: It was continued.
12:14:06 >> So I move items 28 through 33.
12:14:10 (Motion Carried)
12:14:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move resolutions 35
12:14:18 through 43.
12:14:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have a request to item 42.
12:14:23 My request is ask it to be continued for would you
12:14:26 know week.
12:14:27 I have questions of the administration.
12:14:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Excuse me.
12:14:31 Move 35 through 41 and 43.
12:14:34 >> Second.
12:14:34 (Motion carried).
12:14:40 >>> If you have any questions I'm her on item 43.
12:14:46 The spruce easement.
12:14:48 >> Yes.
12:14:48 I have a lot of questions.
12:14:50 >>> I'm here to answer any questions.
12:14:51 >>: Not now.
12:14:54 >>GWEN MILLER: No questions?
12:14:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We are talking about item 42.
12:14:57 Mr. Shelby, I have questions on that too so we are
12:14:59 going to hold that for next week.
12:15:02 >> Continued.
12:15:02 >> So continue 42 till next week.
12:15:04 >> Motion and second.
12:15:05 (Motion carried).
12:15:06 >>CHAIRMAN: transportation, Mr. Shawn Harrison.
12:15:12 >> Move 44 through 50.
12:15:15 >> Second.
12:15:15 (Motion carried).
12:15:16 >> Move the new items, 51 through 58.
12:15:27 >> Second.
12:15:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Now we will stand adjourned until what
12:15:33 time now, 1:30?
12:15:36 Be in recess until 1:30.
Tampa City Council
Thursday, February 15, 2007
1:30 p.m. Session
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13:36:13 >>CHAIRMAN MILLER: Tampa City Council is called back
13:36:15 to order.
13:36:16 Roll call.
13:36:17 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Here.
13:36:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
13:36:18 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Here.
13:36:19 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Here.
13:36:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
13:36:25 We are now to remove from the agenda item number 34.
13:36:29 We need to go to that one.
13:36:33 Asking for a waiver.
13:36:35 >> So moved.
13:36:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The 15-day waiver item on number 34.
13:36:40 The one that's sculled for February 17th.
13:36:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
13:36:43 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
13:36:47 >>SHAWN HARRISON: To approve it?
13:36:49 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Approve it.
13:36:55 >>> For the temporary wet zonings they have to file 15
13:36:57 days in advance to it coming to City Council.
13:36:59 This applicant filed 13 days in advance.
13:37:02 Because they didn't file 15 days they have to do
13:37:04 additional notice to the neighborhood association
13:37:06 which in fact they did do.
13:37:07 They did that 12 days ahead of time.
13:37:09 That's where you are today.
13:37:10 You will need five votes to waive the 15 days.
13:37:13 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I may be okay with it.
13:37:17 I just want to ask a question or two if I might.
13:37:20 What is the address?
13:37:22 4109 north Lauber way.
13:37:27 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Drew Park.
13:37:32 >>BARBARA LEPORE: The address 4109 north Lauber way.
13:37:39 >>SHAWN HARRISON: What is there?
13:37:41 >>BARBARA LEPORE: It's like over 3 acres of land.
13:37:44 It is a clubhouse.
13:37:45 And they are requesting a one-day temporary wet zoning
13:37:51 at the clubhouse.
13:38:00 The people in need of the clubhouse.
13:38:06 I think the petitioner should be here.
13:38:08 >>GWEN MILLER: If he's okay with it.
13:38:10 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
13:38:17 >> Motion to approve.
13:38:18 >> Second.
13:38:18 (Motion carried).
13:38:19 >>CHAIRMAN: Okay.
13:38:20 Is there anyone in the public that wants to request
13:38:22 legislative matters, request reconsideration for our
13:38:25 legislative matters?
13:38:28 We go to our audience portion.
13:38:29 Does anyone in the public want to speak to any item on
13:38:31 the agenda not set for a public hearing?
13:38:33 >>MOSES KNOTT, JR.: I reside at 2902 East Ellicott
13:38:52 And I thank God for his grace and his mercy.
13:39:02 Many people think I can't talk without thanking God.
13:39:05 But I want to speak on this article 7 and 8 this
13:39:07 morning about those bars.
13:39:15 You know, last week.
13:39:19 You know, the conversation I heard this morning, this
13:39:25 here, I'm totally against the way these things was
13:39:31 Now, the reason I say that, people all over my side of
13:39:35 town are talking about that now, the people saying
13:39:37 they put the man out of business, run him out of
13:39:40 But they bought him out.
13:39:41 And paid him big money.
13:39:45 I don't know how much you paid for the place but
13:39:47 bought him out and said the place on Hillsborough,
13:39:51 they are going to get him next.
13:39:53 And I said two or four weeks ago I said they closed
13:39:58 down every black bar in this town, they put them out
13:40:00 of business, and the way they did it, they come and
13:40:03 put the code enforcement on them an and put liens on
13:40:06 them and took the place from him.
13:40:08 Now they are buying genes out.
13:40:13 Got no problem with him this morning, just a little
13:40:16 matter things.
13:40:17 But I want to say, though, I don't drink no more.
13:40:25 I done a lot of sinful things in my lifetime, a party
13:40:28 animal and all those kind of things but I don't do it
13:40:31 no more.
13:40:32 Now, in my part of the town the people think these
13:40:35 bars create all of the sin.
13:40:37 But my part of the town, gambling, and then got
13:40:48 neighbor haters.
13:40:50 I don't know if you all this morning, last week told
13:40:52 people to go back out in the neighborhood and get
13:40:55 together and talk with one another.
13:40:58 Two neighbors never talk to another but they never
13:41:01 And I said neighbor haters.
13:41:08 You all talked last week about the problem.
13:41:11 I mean, anytime they put the bars, the people -- I
13:41:16 disagree with that kind of thing, you know.
13:41:19 Me, you know,
13:41:20 I love neighbors.
13:41:21 I love the city and everything.
13:41:23 But I see neighbors come down here and get beat up,
13:41:26 you know.
13:41:28 That kind of like bothers me.
13:41:30 But I just want to say, though, that bothers me.
13:41:39 Ain't talking.
13:41:39 But it's a shame that this town is like that.
13:41:41 That kind of bothers me.
13:41:43 But I want to say, I wish some day we can get
13:41:45 But the bars.
13:41:52 And I mentioned gambling.
13:41:53 Over in my part of town gambling.
13:41:56 You talk about beer cans.
13:41:58 You ought to see the lotto tickets on the ground.
13:42:01 People go and scratch the other side.
13:42:04 I mean, all the old people, giving up everything they
13:42:12 And neighbor haters.
13:42:15 Mayor Freedman started that turning neighbors against
13:42:18 one another.
13:42:18 But I want to say I'm against that kind of thing.
13:42:21 I hope one day the city will get together.
13:42:23 (Bell sounds).
13:42:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else like to speak?
13:42:38 We go to item number 51.
13:42:51 Number 59.
13:42:58 >>MARY ALVAREZ: 59.
13:43:00 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I thought we did.
13:43:07 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Move to open 59 and 60.
13:43:10 >> Second.
13:43:11 (Motion carried).
13:43:11 >>GWEN MILLER: These are ordinances for second
13:43:14 Is there anyone in the public that wants to speak on
13:43:16 item 59?
13:43:18 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Move to close.
13:43:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Need a second.
13:43:21 >> Second.
13:43:23 >> Motion and second to close.
13:43:26 Mr. Reddick, would you move that, please?
13:43:28 >> Move an ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida
13:43:33 amending City of Tampa code of ordinances chapter 17.5
13:43:38 article IV, land development variance review board,
13:43:42 amending section 17.5-74, application of the variance
13:43:47 power, providing for severability, providing for
13:43:49 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
13:43:51 effective date.
13:43:51 >> a motion and second.
13:43:54 Question, Ms. Saul-Sena?
13:43:55 >> I am so happy to see this come before us.
13:43:57 I think we'll see a lot fewer requests for councils,
13:44:02 because we have created a little more flexibility in
13:44:04 the rules, and I'm happy to say it's come.
13:44:07 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Amen.
13:44:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
13:44:10 Vote and record.
13:44:19 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder being
13:44:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
13:44:22 wants to speak on item number 60?
13:44:24 >> Move to close.
13:44:25 >> Second.
13:44:25 (Motion carried).
13:44:26 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I move to adopt the following
13:44:31 ordinance upon second reading, an ordinance of the
13:44:33 city of Tampa, Florida amending chapter 22 City of
13:44:35 Tampa code of ordinances creating section 22-135
13:44:39 transit shelter advertising, repealing all ordinances
13:44:43 or parts of ordinances in conflict therewith,
13:44:46 providing for severability, providing an effective
13:44:48 >> Second.
13:44:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
13:44:52 Vote and record.
13:44:54 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder being
13:45:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
13:45:02 wants to speak on item 62 to 64?
13:45:05 Would you please stand and raise your right hand?
13:45:08 (Oath administered by Clerk).
13:45:16 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to open 62.
13:45:19 >> So moved.
13:45:20 >> Second.
13:45:20 (Motion carried).
13:45:21 >> Is there anyone in the public that wants to speak
13:45:25 on item 62?
13:45:26 >> Move to close.
13:45:27 >> Second.
13:45:27 (Motion Carried).
13:45:29 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Move to adopt the following
13:45:33 ordinance upon second reading, an ordinance vacating,
13:45:35 closing, discontinuing, and abandoning a certain
13:45:38 right-of-way a portion of Sterling circle lying north
13:45:41 of Euclid Avenue south of Kensington west of Hymes
13:45:44 Avenue and east of Dale Mabry Highway in Bel-Mar row
13:45:48 advised unit number 7 a subdivision in the City of
13:45:50 Tampa, Hillsborough County, Florida, the same being
13:45:52 more fully described in section 2 hereof, providing an
13:45:56 effective date.
13:45:56 >> We have a motion and a second.
13:45:58 Vote and record.
13:46:06 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder being
13:46:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public to open
13:46:09 number 63?
13:46:11 We opened all four.
13:46:14 Anyone want to speak on item 63?
13:46:16 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Move to close.
13:46:18 >> Second.
13:46:18 (Motion carried).
13:46:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'd like to move the following
13:46:29 ordinance upon second reading, an ordinance making
13:46:31 lawful the sale of beverages containing alcohol of
13:46:33 more than 1% by weight and not more than 14% by weight
13:46:37 and wines regardless of alcoholic content, beer an
13:46:39 wine, 2(APS), in sealed containers for consumption off
13:46:42 premises only at or from that certain lot, plot or
13:46:45 tract of land located at 1006 east Hillsborough
13:46:51 Avenue, Tampa, Florida as more particularly described
13:46:53 in section 2 hereof waiving certain restrictions as to
13:46:55 distance based upon certain findings, imposing certain
13:46:58 conditions, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
13:47:01 conflict, providing an effective date.
13:47:03 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
13:47:05 Vote and record.
13:47:11 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder being
13:47:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
13:47:14 wants to speak on item 64?
13:47:16 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Move to close.
13:47:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
13:47:19 (Motion carried).
13:47:21 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I move to adopt the following
13:47:25 ordinance upon second reading, an ordinance rezoning
13:47:28 property in the general vicinity of 6401 Nebraska
13:47:32 Avenue in the city of Tampa, Florida, and more
13:47:35 particularly described in section 1, from zoning
13:47:38 district classifications CI commercial intensive and
13:47:42 RS-60, residential single-family, to PD, planned
13:47:46 development, restaurant, bar and single-family lot,
13:47:49 providing an effective date.
13:47:50 >> I have a motion and second.
13:47:52 Vote and record.
13:47:58 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder being
13:48:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that is
13:48:02 going to speak on item 65 through 69?
13:48:04 Would you please stand and raise your right hand.
13:48:10 (Oath administered by Clerk)
13:48:21 65 is already heard.
13:48:25 Need to open 66.
13:48:26 >>: So moved.
13:48:27 >> Second.
13:48:27 (Motion carried)
13:48:28 >>CHAIRMAN: Staff.
13:48:48 >>BARBARA LEPORE: Land development.
13:49:01 I have been sworn.
13:49:03 I'm here to present case WZ 07-24, 4(COP-R) wet zoning
13:49:09 at the location of 2815 east Fowler Avenue.
13:49:15 According to the application, 275 feet outside. The
13:49:22 site contains 105 parking spaces including the
13:49:27 handicapped spaces.
13:49:36 It includes surrounding area.
13:49:39 As you can see on exhibit A, it shows the proper wet
13:49:44 zoning area.
13:49:46 The wet zone in 2000, and the property went dry in
13:49:58 Petitioner is requesting 4(COP-R) and the square
13:50:02 footage the outzoning would be over 15,000 square
13:50:06 And the map here, on the left side,
13:50:33 There are other wet zoned establishments that
13:50:39 petitioner requests a waiver of at this time
13:50:42 Land development has no objections.
13:50:48 The application is for staff reviewing.
13:50:56 >>> Officer Don Miller, Tampa City of Tampa police
13:51:00 I have been sworn.
13:51:00 We have no objection to this petition.
13:51:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
13:51:09 Joseph Diaz, office 2522 West Kennedy Boulevard.
13:51:12 And I have been sworn.
13:51:14 I am here before you on behalf of the applicant
13:51:16 petitioner H.lee Moffitt, Jr., irrevocable trust.
13:51:23 This property was initially a Tex-Mex location.
13:51:28 Tex-Mex went into bankruptcy.
13:51:31 Tex-Mex lost its wet zoning in October of this past
13:51:36 Mr. Henry and his daughter Dorenda negotiated through
13:51:42 the bankruptcy court to buy the naming rights to
13:51:44 Tex-Mex and want to reopen this location once again as
13:51:48 a Tex-Mex restaurant, the PIAS's Tex-Mex restaurant.
13:51:55 In the drawing that they pointed out to you is an area
13:52:00 on the backside of the property.
13:52:02 Away from Fowler Avenue.
13:52:04 That's roughly 60 by 40.
13:52:05 It's going to be like a patio area in the back.
13:52:08 But as I understand at different times it would come
13:52:11 and get temporary zonings and what have you to
13:52:13 alleviate that need, incorporated this additional area
13:52:18 on the backside of the building for a patio that they
13:52:24 would also serve food at.
13:52:25 We request you grant us our 4(COP-R).
13:52:28 The operation will be the exact same.
13:52:31 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Mr. Diaz, I don't have any problems
13:52:33 with this.
13:52:34 Isn't there a patio on the front of this restaurant as
13:52:36 >>> Very, very small, yeah.
13:52:39 >> Because they can't sit out there.
13:52:41 >>> No.
13:52:47 >>> Seating is going to be roughly 325 inside, 50
13:52:49 outside as they have indicated to you before, about
13:52:52 102 spaces, 98 regular, 4 of them handicapped parking.
13:52:57 We received a letter from University Square Civic
13:53:01 Association signed by Frederick Zolas, the president
13:53:05 of the association, which I will offer in support of,
13:53:09 the granting this petition.
13:53:26 We request you approve our application.
13:53:28 >> Is there anyone in the public that wants to speak
13:53:30 on item 66?
13:53:31 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Move to close.
13:53:32 >> Second.
13:53:32 (Motion carried).
13:53:33 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Move an ordinance making law firm the
13:53:47 sale of beverages containing alcohol regardless of
13:53:49 alcoholic content beer, wine and liquor 4(COP-R) for
13:53:52 consumption on the premises only in connection with a
13:53:55 restaurant business establishment on that certain lot,
13:53:59 plot or tract of land located at 2815 east Fowler
13:54:02 Avenue, Tampa, Florida as more particularly described
13:54:04 in section 2 hereof waiving certain restrictions as to
13:54:07 distance based upon certain findings, providing for
13:54:09 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
13:54:12 effective date.
13:54:14 >> Second.
13:54:14 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
13:54:16 (Motion carried).
13:54:16 >>GWEN MILLER: We need oh open item 67.
13:54:22 >> Move to open.
13:54:23 >> Second.
13:54:23 (Motion carried)
13:54:24 >>BARBARA LEPORE: Land development.
13:55:01 This is for wet zoning at the location 4606 west Boy
13:55:05 Scout Boulevard.
13:55:07 The petitioner is requesting 4(COP-R) for sale of
13:55:11 alcohol in conjunction with a restaurant.
13:55:13 The sale of alcohol will be incidental.
13:55:22 The petitioner is developing the site and he's
13:55:24 converting it to the restaurant.
13:55:26 This wet zone will consist of 16,000 square feet.
13:55:30 And there's an ordinance in 2002.
13:55:35 The property was wet zoned to 2(COP-R) and was 2500
13:55:41 square feet.
13:55:43 The current request is for over 16,000 square feet
13:55:46 which is an increase of over 12,000 square feet to the
13:55:50 wet zoning.
13:55:55 On the left side shows what was already wet zoned.
13:56:02 (off microphone)
13:56:11 This is the area they are requesting the wet zoning.
13:56:13 There are other wet zoned establishments, also
13:56:17 residential properties, and therefore the petitioner
13:56:22 is requesting waivers of separation at this time.
13:56:26 Land development has no objections at this time.
13:56:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can I ask a question?
13:56:35 Are we allowed to ask about parking?
13:56:45 >>> Construction service for meeting.
13:56:47 >>: That isn't exactly my question.
13:56:49 My question is, I'm familiar with this strip center,
13:56:51 and I hope that this will be successful.
13:56:54 The only negative impact that I could imagine to the
13:56:57 residential would be if there weren't adequate
13:57:00 So I thought maybe this is a Julia -- could you pleas
13:57:05 tell me whether as part of our consideration of this
13:57:09 expanded wet zoning, are we allowed to consider the
13:57:11 adequacy of parking?
13:57:14 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
13:57:15 I can't answer that question.
13:57:18 However, I will tell you that when this went through a
13:57:22 change of use, this particular establishment went
13:57:24 through a change of use process, the issue of parking
13:57:27 did come up, and pursuant to our code they entered
13:57:29 into a long-term lease agreement with the property
13:57:32 next door to park so they could comply with parking
13:57:37 requirements for a restaurant.
13:57:41 >> That's good.
13:57:44 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
13:57:48 As to the specific question the way your code reads
13:57:50 now the parking is actually addressed separately.
13:57:53 As I told you we are coming back with substantial
13:57:55 changes to the process, and I believe we have asked
13:57:59 for a workshop in March, the third week in March.
13:58:03 So it will be coming back in very short order and
13:58:06 wonder of the things we are looking at is
13:58:07 incorporating a more full site plan review into for
13:58:13 the wet zoning so in the future if you approve that
13:58:15 ordinance, that will be coming to you to consider.
13:58:18 However right now it's in a separate process.
13:58:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We have been working on this for a
13:58:24 very long time.
13:58:25 As early as you can in March so you can take advantage
13:58:27 of the expertise of people like Ms. Alvarez who is
13:58:30 totally up to speed on this and will be leaving at the
13:58:33 end of March.
13:58:34 >>> We are doing the best we can.
13:58:35 >>CHAIRMAN: Officer Miller?
13:58:41 >>> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police
13:58:45 We have no objection.
13:58:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
13:58:57 >>> I have been sworn in.
13:58:59 For the applicant.
13:59:00 I will answer your questions.
13:59:02 About the parking issue as well.
13:59:05 This is will be a restaurant in this shopping center
13:59:13 and it's now being redeveloped for a steakhouse, which
13:59:17 is a steakhouse that is around the country.
13:59:28 They have the full dining service and this will be a
13:59:30 restaurant with beer, wine and liquor sales totally in
13:59:34 conjunction with the restaurant.
13:59:35 The bar will be for customers of the restaurant only.
13:59:39 There won't be any separate drinking of the
13:59:41 establishment other than that with the restaurant use.
13:59:46 There is no outdoor seating.
13:59:48 It's fully indoors.
13:59:50 And it's going to be a nice development project for
13:59:52 this area.
14:00:02 There are a couple of waivers that the site requires
14:00:05 in order to receive the 2(COP-R).
14:00:08 They were waived previously as part of the 2(COP-R)
14:00:10 application as well.
14:00:13 The waivers include a residential property next door.
14:00:18 The property next door is all residentially zoned, as
14:00:24 councilman Saul-Sena you're familiar with the area.
14:00:27 These residences have been recently purchased and torn
14:00:31 It's probably going to go through some redevelopment
14:00:33 of that site currently so any new neighbors will be
14:00:35 aware of the restaurant.
14:00:39 And the parking will be on the property next door
14:00:41 along Trask street.
14:00:47 It's a significant can't amount of parking and
14:00:51 complies with all the parking requirement was the
14:00:52 addition of that parking area and is being redeveloped
14:00:54 in conjunction.
14:00:55 There will not be any access to Trask street which is
14:00:59 where the residences is located.
14:01:05 The other waiver required is the waiver to the high
14:01:09 The high school is oriented towards Cypress Creek
14:01:12 which is significantly to the south of this site.
14:01:14 This is the extended area.
14:01:20 Cypress Street is all the way down here.
14:01:27 The high school has significant ball field which are
14:01:31 generally used for games once or twice a week at
14:01:34 So the operation of the restaurant should not
14:01:36 interfere in any way.
14:01:37 The parking area is going to be buffered by a
14:01:39 significant landscape buffer along Trask street.
14:01:43 There shouldn't be any action negatively between the
14:01:47 high school or residences in the area.
14:01:50 It's a very commercial area.
14:01:51 It's zoned commercially.
14:01:52 It's a good location for a restaurant.
14:01:55 And everything.
14:01:57 And with the expansion of parking we are hoping this
14:01:59 will be a wonderful new restaurant addition to Tampa.
14:02:03 We request your approval.
14:02:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone that wants to speak on
14:02:09 item number 67?
14:02:11 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Move to close.
14:02:12 >> Second.
14:02:12 (Motion carried).
14:02:13 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Move an ordinance repealing
14:02:17 ordinance number 2002-221, making lawful the sale of
14:02:21 beverages containing alcohol regardless of alcoholic
14:02:24 content, beer, wine and liquor, 4(COP-R), for
14:02:27 consumption on premises only in connection with a
14:02:29 restaurant business establishment on that certain lot,
14:02:32 plot or tract of land located at 4606 west Boy Scout
14:02:35 Boulevard, Tampa, Florida, as more particularly
14:02:37 described in section 3 hereof, waiving certain
14:02:40 restrictions as to distance based upon certain
14:02:42 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
14:02:45 conflict, providing an effective date.
14:02:46 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
14:02:47 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
14:02:49 Opposed Nay?
14:02:50 (Motion carried)
14:02:51 68 is a continued public hearing.
14:02:56 >> Jill Finney, Land Development Coordination.
14:02:59 I have been sworn.
14:02:59 I am here on Z 06-142 located at 3109 north Ola Avenue
14:03:05 and 206 west Olympian other street going from --
14:03:09 Plymouth street, going from residential will single
14:03:12 family zoning to PD with bed and breakfast, youth
14:03:21 The petitioner was asked to come back with a site plan
14:03:24 showing that the dead palm in the right-of-way has
14:03:26 been reed moved, and that there's been a waiver for
14:03:31 100% reduction in parking.
14:03:34 And along with that he also did verify that he has no
14:03:39 encroachments on the property to the south.
14:03:53 West Tampa street is here.
14:03:57 The next block.
14:03:58 Residential on the other side.
14:03:59 And that concludes my presentation.
14:04:01 If you have any questions, staff is available.
14:04:07 >> Is this the property that had the ADA parking
14:04:12 >>> Yes, sir.
14:04:12 >> Did you say how that was resolved?
14:04:14 >>> Yes.
14:04:14 If do you a 100% reduction of parking, it's not
14:04:18 As soon as you have one space it has to be ADA.
14:04:21 >> Thank you.
14:04:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
14:04:30 >> Good afternoon, council.
14:04:31 Thank you.
14:04:34 As Ms. Finney -- I'm sorry, my name is Sarah Romeo and
14:04:38 I have been sworn.
14:04:43 In and out mostly today.
14:04:45 Since I was here I believe three weeks ago, Mr.
14:04:49 Holland has made every effort to comply in every
14:04:53 single way by following your guidelines.
14:04:56 We have not only removed the dead palm tree in the
14:04:59 We have also removed some planter boxes which were
14:05:03 We have also trimmed all vegetation and met with the
14:05:08 two and a half -- in fact much below the two and a
14:05:11 half foot right-of-way asked us to be at.
14:05:16 We have also in addition done quite a bit of other
14:05:18 work on the property to bring every single thing into
14:05:22 At this point, we believe that we have complied in
14:05:26 every way with every request.
14:05:30 I know there are some people here today.
14:05:33 The last time we were here, we had, I believe,
14:05:37 60-something letters in support and approximately 20
14:05:40 people who testified in support of this.
14:05:42 There are a few more people here today I know would
14:05:44 like to speak on this in support.
14:05:46 And we also have an additional seven or eight letters
14:05:51 which have come in today.
14:05:53 There were people here earlier this morning who, four
14:05:56 or five other people who also wanted to speak in
14:05:58 support of this but due to time constraints and jobs,
14:06:02 they had to leave.
14:06:04 We do have a couple of letters from them as well.
14:06:07 But I think at this point in time I would be available
14:06:09 to answer any questions or give you any other
14:06:10 information should you need that.
14:06:12 And perhaps we can just let these people speak.
14:06:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Mrs. Alvarez?
14:06:19 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Ms. Romeo, hello.
14:06:22 Did you take pictures of the -- of where the flower
14:06:25 box was?
14:06:26 >>> Yes, ma'am.
14:06:27 >> Can we see that, please?
14:06:29 >>> You certainly may.
14:06:50 >>> This palm tree here is one that is still alive and
14:06:52 is in city right-of-way, probably 40 feet high.
14:06:56 There was one right up here which is the one we had
14:06:58 talked about which was completely removed along with
14:07:01 the planter box.
14:07:02 All of the vegetation around here has been trimmed.
14:07:13 These little plants are trimmed back.
14:07:15 Everything is within the two and a half foot limit
14:07:18 that the Department of Transportation asked us to
14:07:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone in the public like to
14:07:27 speak on item number 68?
14:07:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: When you state your name, please
14:07:42 reaffirm that you have been sworn in.
14:07:44 Thank you.
14:07:55 >>> I have a waiver, two people.
14:08:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Are they present?
14:08:04 Is that Larry Katzen and -- you won't be speaking,
14:08:12 That will be two extra minutes, please.
14:08:39 >>> Good morning council members and guests.
14:08:42 I am Marian Puro, 3107 north Ola Avenue next door to
14:08:52 mark Holland's property.
14:08:53 Day want to give a voice to the 44 neighbors who
14:08:55 signed a petition and live in the surrounding
14:08:58 three-block area to Mr. Holland's property.
14:09:01 I had originally planned just to speak only on my
14:09:04 problems with the property taking place on my lot, the
14:09:09 diversion of stormwater to my yard and other issues.
14:09:11 But after walking through the surrounding
14:09:13 neighborhoods and talking to my neighbors, I
14:09:16 discovered they were the ones who had really suffered.
14:09:19 They share with me that they have been upset about Mr.
14:09:23 Holland's place, but did not realize they could do
14:09:26 anything about it.
14:09:27 Some thought it was a bar, because of the neon beer
14:09:31 Actually, he does have an outdoor bar behind the fence
14:09:34 where his guests gather.
14:09:37 Others said they always wondered how he got away with
14:09:39 building the extra sheds on his lot and running a
14:09:43 business in a residential area.
14:09:47 Most of them had struggled with driving at the corner
14:09:50 of Ola and Plymouth because the plants and the six
14:09:54 foot sense along with parked cars obstructed their
14:09:57 They talked of having near accidents there and I
14:10:01 almost had one myself.
14:10:02 One said saw an accident this year which resulted in
14:10:06 very serious injuries.
14:10:07 The one was taken away in an ambulance. The truck was
14:10:11 The neighbors did not know they could do anything
14:10:14 about the unsafe corner.
14:10:16 They never complained.
14:10:17 Only suffered in silence.
14:10:19 This unsafe situation existed for years because Mr.
14:10:23 Holland put profits above the safety of his neighbors.
14:10:28 Mark Holland told me he put up the fence all around
14:10:31 his entire lot so city inspectors would not catch him
14:10:35 building the extra structures on his lot without
14:10:39 So he's now building more structures so he can house
14:10:43 more guests and make more money.
14:10:46 He is jeopardizing the lives of his neighbors.
14:10:49 Who do not have a voice.
14:10:51 Every time they drove to the intersection of Ola and
14:10:55 Plymouth their lives were on the line.
14:10:57 All the while mark Holland refused to follow city
14:11:00 This continued even after the city code department in
14:11:05 2005 ordered Mr. Holland to remove the 6-foot fence at
14:11:09 the corner, the plants on the corner, which I hear he
14:11:13 finally removed, the sheds and the awnings he had
14:11:16 built illegally.
14:11:17 Did he remove them in 2005?
14:11:21 He made a choice.
14:11:22 His money-making business, his guests from Europe,
14:11:25 came before the safety and the rights of his
14:11:28 surrounding neighbors.
14:11:30 Yet, now, he comes before City Council and asks for a
14:11:33 waiver to keep the fence, the sheds, the awnings, the
14:11:39 He says he offers a unique cultural experience to
14:11:43 So he is special.
14:11:44 And his hostel is above the laws and codes of Tampa.
14:11:49 However, the voiceless neighbors of his have had to
14:11:53 follow city codes all these years.
14:11:56 I have heard many stories.
14:11:57 Mr. Barnett next door to me and Mrs. May go let down
14:12:01 the street had to remove their fences in their front
14:12:04 Mrs. Williams at 206 west Adalee was fined $5,000 for
14:12:10 not painting her house and cleaning up her alley.
14:12:12 She even borrowed the money to pay her reduced fines
14:12:15 and paint her house.
14:12:17 She wonders why mark Holland does not have to correct
14:12:20 his violations or pay his fines, which now total over
14:12:27 Somehow, he is special and she is not?
14:12:32 You should have her letter, by the way.
14:12:34 City Council members, the way I see it, all of the
14:12:36 residents of Tampa Heights are special and they should
14:12:39 all be treated equally.
14:12:41 All of us should have to a bid by and follow the city
14:12:44 codes regardless of how we earn our living.
14:12:47 So I ask the City Council to deny the rezoning
14:12:50 request, granting mark Holland a PD zoning would
14:12:54 eliminate all the setback rules on his property, allow
14:12:57 him to continue flooding his neighbors' yards and give
14:13:01 him waivers for a six-foot fence that obstruct the
14:13:04 view of the intersection.
14:13:07 Rezoning would reward a man who has knowingly and
14:13:12 consistently refused to a bid by city codes and laws
14:13:15 and would be punishing the rest of us in the
14:13:17 neighborhood who have suffered and sacrificed for
14:13:19 years so he could earn a living out of his home
14:13:23 without proper permits and Barrio Latino and ignoring
14:13:26 city codes.
14:13:28 Now, City Council members, it's up to you.
14:13:31 Here is a petition opposing the rezoning signed by 44
14:13:38 neighbors who live next door to Mr. Holland, on the
14:13:40 same block as him, down the street from him, and
14:13:43 within a three-block radius of his property.
14:13:46 They do not live in Europe or other neighborhoods.
14:13:49 Will they now have a voice or remain voiceless?
14:13:52 It's up to you.
14:14:25 >>> Good afternoon, council members.
14:14:28 I'm Gloria baker.
14:14:29 I live on highland Avenue and I'm going to read what I
14:14:37 I have lived at this address for 28 years.
14:14:39 I own the house, take pride in the fact that my house
14:14:43 was built in 1920.
14:14:46 The community is quiet and friendly in the midst of
14:14:49 the city.
14:14:52 Submitted changes at the property at 3109 north Ola.
14:15:00 Did not receive a notice of the hearing and I do not
14:15:04 approve of the rezoning.
14:15:06 Most of the structures now pose a safety hazard to our
14:15:11 Small children must walk in the street to get to their
14:15:13 bus stop because cars parked in the right-of-way
14:15:17 prevents their walking there.
14:15:19 On overcast days, foggy and rainy days this poses a
14:15:23 problem for the children.
14:15:26 Drivers must ease their vehicles onto Ola to see cars
14:15:33 on Plymouth.
14:15:37 I have problems myself there driving down Ola.
14:15:41 Now I approach that corner with caution.
14:15:44 If he has sheds what he built what happens if some of
14:15:48 his clients have health problems and difficulty
14:15:50 breathing in such close quarters?
14:15:53 He advertises a bed and bath but has had at least one
14:15:57 person living there for 15 months.
14:16:00 One of his buildings overhangs on another person's
14:16:04 property, and that is ethically and morally wrong.
14:16:08 My question to you is two-fold.
14:16:12 If he had done all of this without permission and
14:16:15 refuses to remove it, what happens if he is allowed to
14:16:17 keep his structures?
14:16:22 It is blatant disregard for his neighbors and the
14:16:25 community in which he lives.
14:16:29 The structures are constructed.
14:16:33 Also what happened if he has no restrictions?
14:16:40 Will we see three or four stories on that lot?
14:16:43 Does this then set a precedent for our neighborhood?
14:16:45 The other people feel if he can do it and get away
14:16:48 with it, so can I.
14:16:51 Will we see sheds in Tampa Heights?
14:16:55 You can view the buildings on Google.com.
14:17:00 Thank you for your time.
14:17:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Were you sworn in?
14:17:03 You didn't say whether you were.
14:17:05 >>> I'm sorry.
14:17:06 I was sworn in.
14:17:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.
14:17:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: You just said we could see an
14:17:12 overhead --
14:17:14 >>> I didn't print it out.
14:17:15 I didn't think about it at the time.
14:17:16 But when you look at Google.com you can see the
14:17:19 buildings and structures.
14:17:21 >> I am going to ask Mr. Shelby, one of our
14:17:24 assistants, to print it out because we didn't have
14:17:27 We can't pull it up right here and I would love to see
14:17:30 >>> But you can look at all of it on Google because I
14:17:34 brought it up myself.
14:17:35 I can even see my own house.
14:17:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Does someone of city staff have a
14:17:43 picture of this?
14:17:47 >>> I do have the aerial, not showing on that.
14:17:50 Also, we have a survey that was done last week.
14:17:56 >> Is that part of our materials?
14:17:57 >>> No.
14:17:58 That was just shown to me by the petitioner.
14:18:00 >> Maybe you could share it with council.
14:18:02 >>> Sure.
14:18:02 >>GWEN MILLER: the next speaker while you are doing
14:18:06 Next speaker.
14:18:12 >> Jim Hart, 2302 Central Avenue.
14:18:14 Yes, I have been sworn in.
14:18:16 I'm here -- I guess wearing two hats maybe.
14:18:19 One as the representative of Tampa Heights civic
14:18:22 association of which I'm the vice-president.
14:18:25 We had previously submitted a letter of support for
14:18:29 this rezoning, in favor of Gram's Place in general.
14:18:35 He's been a neighbor of ours for 20 years.
14:18:39 And before we had submitted a letter, we had done a
14:18:45 few things.
14:18:47 One of our representatives checked with the neighbors,
14:18:52 knocked on some doors and just asked in general
14:18:55 someone from that area, and didn't really come up with
14:18:58 anyone that had any issues.
14:19:00 We also did check with a long-time community officer,
14:19:05 officer skypack who has been a community officer for
14:19:08 five-plus years, I believe, and he has no issues at
14:19:11 all with Gram's Place.
14:19:14 Didn't really know of any issues at all.
14:19:17 Some in general.
14:19:18 N that area but nothing directly relating at all to
14:19:21 Gram's Place.
14:19:22 Because of no opposition, and we encouraged diversity
14:19:28 and think it's a great addition to our neighborhood,
14:19:30 we went ahead and submitted a letter of support, and
14:19:33 wanted to send someone down here tonight to make sure
14:19:38 that was put forward.
14:19:41 If I can step aside and make mention of two personal
14:19:48 The previous woman who had submitted the petition and
14:19:53 such, to me that sounds like it's a personal matter
14:19:57 between the owner of grams, Mr. Holland and her.
14:20:03 From what I see, there's some friction between the
14:20:05 And it's certainly not fabricated but I think things
14:20:13 might have been slanted a certain way or something
14:20:15 with the petitions, because it's not what we found out
14:20:18 to be the case at all when we looked into the matter.
14:20:22 And I just wanted to make that clear that we certainly
14:20:26 support his business and support him being there.
14:20:29 He's been there for 20 years without any issues.
14:20:31 I think that history speaks a lot.
14:20:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
14:20:41 >>> My name is Roshelle Brooks.
14:20:43 I have not been sworn in.
14:20:44 (Oath administered by Clerk).
14:20:54 >>> I am also a member of the Tampa Heights civic
14:20:56 association but I'm speaking as a resident of the City
14:20:58 of Tampa.
14:20:59 I am strongly in favor of Gram's Place.
14:21:02 He was on our tour of homes.
14:21:05 He always let his neighbors through there.
14:21:08 We haven't heard of any other complaints.
14:21:10 There is a petition with 68 names in favor of this.
14:21:14 When the other lady said that people feel they don't
14:21:16 have a voice, the first group of people complained to
14:21:20 that there really is a problem is the police
14:21:23 And as Jim mentioned, our community officer did check
14:21:25 it out and said he has had no issues with Gram's
14:21:29 I feel that it provides a very important need.
14:21:32 I don't know of any other hostel in the City of Tampa
14:21:35 or anyplace like that.
14:21:36 It's not like Gram is charging people $100 a night to
14:21:42 stay there.
14:21:43 It's also a city street.
14:21:44 As long as cars are parked legally, it could be a
14:21:46 single-family residence.
14:21:48 And those cars still have a right to park on the
14:21:50 So I'm hoping that you do support the rezoning
14:21:54 Thank you.
14:21:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
14:22:00 >>> I'm Lee Suge, Executive Director of the South
14:22:05 Tampa Chamber of Commerce but I have to make it clear
14:22:08 what I am going to say for today is my own personal
14:22:10 opinion and in no way representing South Tampa Chamber
14:22:13 of Commerce.
14:22:14 I have known Mark for quite awhile now.
14:22:16 I have known of this hostel for quite awhile.
14:22:20 I have to say it is a tremendous asset in my own maned
14:22:22 to our community in Tampa, the City of Tampa, in that
14:22:26 it does give people the environment that they are
14:22:28 looking for when they are touring, in the capacity
14:22:30 that most of the people that come through there do.
14:22:33 They look for places like this.
14:22:35 Tampa does not have any other facility that these
14:22:37 people are looking for to accommodate them.
14:22:42 My best friend owns the house right next door.
14:22:44 My experience, I'm there quite often and I see the
14:22:48 traffic that's there.
14:22:49 On the average they have two to three people there at
14:22:51 the time.
14:22:52 It not like they are coming there in droves.
14:22:54 I just want to say that I'm totally in favor of you
14:22:59 having his business approved.
14:23:01 And please consider that.
14:23:02 I think it is an asset to the entertainment industry,
14:23:06 because a lot of people that come from other countries
14:23:10 here to entertain our citizens and the businesses in
14:23:16 South Tampa as well as the surrounding Tampa Bay area.
14:23:18 They are here to make very little money, but to tour
14:23:21 and just make enough money to do that and that's where
14:23:23 they stay because they are familiar with that type of
14:23:27 So just wanted to say that.
14:23:30 Thank you.
14:23:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
14:23:41 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Two additional names.
14:23:45 CLANCHE NOVITT.
14:23:49 And Monica.
14:23:55 Two additional names.
14:23:59 >>> Ladies and gentlemen of City Council.
14:24:00 I have been sworn.
14:24:01 My name is Daniel HER RO O and I'm a law abiding,
14:24:07 concerned citizen.
14:24:08 And frankly, I am shocked that mark Holland has come
14:24:13 to City Council with the expectation that they will
14:24:14 vote in his favor, given that he has deliberately and
14:24:19 consistently flaunted city code and disregarded the
14:24:24 safety concerns of his own neighbors.
14:24:27 All because of his desire for profit.
14:24:30 I'm going to call his place what it really is.
14:24:33 It's bunk beds and sheds.
14:24:35 It's shack was tin roofs.
14:24:36 You have seen the photos.
14:24:37 You have seen the multiple shacks going up to the
14:24:41 parking lot.
14:24:42 I'm shocked that 44 neighbors who have signed that
14:24:45 petition, who don't live in Europe, who live again on
14:24:48 the same block, next door neighbors, across the
14:24:51 street, all of them are within a 3-block area.
14:24:54 There's 44.
14:24:55 I am shocked that those 44 neighbors have to actually
14:24:58 sign a petition and fight against this rezoning.
14:25:01 Because of Mr. Holland's own action.
14:25:03 Because he's been cited for 20-some code violations
14:25:07 and he's refused to clear up most of them, refused to
14:25:10 pay a fine, because he's been illegally running a
14:25:13 business in a residential neighborhood.
14:25:14 True, he kept a secret for a long, long time.
14:25:17 A lot of those neighbors especially those the letters
14:25:20 I am going to give you will say they aren't even aware
14:25:23 that a business had been operating there. Because he
14:25:24 built substandard structures, shacks, outdoor bar,
14:25:29 balconies, all without permit, all without regard to
14:25:33 what's going to happen to those structures if a
14:25:35 hurricane comes along.
14:25:36 Because he ran his business without the approval with
14:25:39 the consent of his neighbors, because he encroached on
14:25:42 other person's property.
14:25:45 You should have that survey in your files.
14:25:47 Because he dumped stormwater on other person's
14:25:50 properties, because his awnings go up to and over the
14:25:54 property line.
14:25:55 Because he continued to build in 2005 an outdoor bar
14:26:00 after the city began citing him for Hess illegal
14:26:03 Because he refused to move that fence that the city's
14:26:08 transportation authority deemed a safety hazard.
14:26:10 After he refused to move that in 2005 when they told
14:26:13 him to.
14:26:13 After all that, mark Holland comes here and asks for a
14:26:18 free pass.
14:26:19 Ladies and gentlemen, that's what the rezoning would
14:26:22 It's a free pass to all that conduct.
14:26:27 Rezoning would tell those 44 neighbors that profit
14:26:32 trumps the rights and concerns of them.
14:26:36 It will be an insult to all the neighbors who have had
14:26:41 to follow the rules for all those years.
14:26:44 It will be an insult to all those 44 neighbors who
14:26:48 have had to see his mess, his bunk beds and sheds.
14:26:55 It's an illegal helter skelter building that made his
14:26:58 property into an eyesore.
14:26:59 His property is located now in the neighborhood where
14:27:02 most of the homes have been remodeled or in the
14:27:04 process of being remodeled.
14:27:06 His sticks out like a sore thumb.
14:27:08 It doesn't fit in.
14:27:09 It's trashy.
14:27:09 In fact, even Abby, a woman who works in zoning who
14:27:14 will give him a waiver for that 6-foot fence, if the
14:27:17 zoning is approved, she'll give him that waiver
14:27:19 because in her own words, it hides his mess.
14:27:24 That's how she describes it and she doesn't even have
14:27:26 to live next to it.
14:27:27 So in order for mark Holland to get his rezoning, I'm
14:27:31 assuming he must expect City Council to put profit
14:27:35 above following the rules.
14:27:38 To put profit above the concerns of his 44 neighbors
14:27:43 who ha V to live next to his mess.
14:27:48 He must expect City Council to put profit over safety
14:27:50 and build that 6-foot fence so he can keep on hiding
14:27:54 his mess.
14:27:56 If rezoning is granted it will set a dangerous
14:27:59 It will tell every businessman in Tampa how to start,
14:28:02 build and run an illegal business, find a property in
14:28:06 a depressed neighborhood, where few of the neighbors
14:28:11 are aware of their civic rights, start renting
14:28:15 outhouses, start renting out rooms when you run out of
14:28:19 space start building shacks, maximize your space to
14:28:24 don't worry about set back rules, don't worry about
14:28:26 encroaching on people's property because no one can do
14:28:29 anything about it and you can do it all on the cheap
14:28:31 because you don't have to get permits, you will get
14:28:33 away with it.
14:28:34 Because when the neighbors actually do find out what's
14:28:37 going on behind that 6-foot fence you go in and ask
14:28:40 for a free pass.
14:28:42 Ask for a rezoning.
14:28:43 And say, I have been doing it for years, and so you
14:28:46 have to just keep on letting me do it.
14:28:54 Don't let him cheat the system.
14:28:56 Don't let him cheat his neighbors.
14:28:58 And listen to those 44 neighbors.
14:29:02 Don't give him a free pass on his mess.
14:29:04 Make him clean it up.
14:29:05 Make him clean it up.
14:29:09 Tell those 44 neighbors that they are just as equal as
14:29:12 him, that they all have to follow the rules.
14:29:21 Tell them that you are not going to bend the rules for
14:29:24 one person for the sole purpose of profit.
14:29:29 Tell those 44 neighbors that they no longer have to
14:29:32 put up with the mess.
14:29:35 Thank you.
14:29:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else like to speak?
14:29:43 >>> My name is Marlee Goosen.
14:29:46 I would like to be sworn in, please.
14:29:49 >> Anybody else who is going to speak?
14:29:50 (Oath administered by Clerk).
14:29:57 >>> I spoke the other night.
14:29:59 I too live on west Plymouth street so Tim next door
14:30:03 I don't want to be voiceless.
14:30:04 I want my voice heard loud and clear.
14:30:06 I want Gram's Place there.
14:30:08 I guess beauty is once again in the eye of the
14:30:11 I'm not a practicing attorney or I'm not the neighbor
14:30:15 who bought for investment because she could buy a
14:30:17 cheap property.
14:30:18 I love Tampa.
14:30:19 And I bought because of Gram's Place and I love Gram's
14:30:23 I find it a beautiful place to live and play.
14:30:28 I don't know where these other neighbors that have
14:30:31 shown up today have come from.
14:30:32 My other neighbor valley that's on the other side of
14:30:34 mark spoke very eloquently the other night in support
14:30:39 of Gram's Place.
14:30:41 I just find this whole thing almost like turning into
14:30:43 a 3-ring circus.
14:30:45 And it is a personal vendetta.
14:30:46 I have been there six years.
14:30:48 We were a happy community until one person moved into
14:30:51 the neighborhood.
14:30:52 And it's changing the flavor.
14:30:54 And I don't understand it.
14:30:55 I want us to just have a nice community and get along.
14:30:59 If Mr. Holland is complying with the zoning and
14:31:02 requests that you have made, I don't see the problem.
14:31:04 The children in the street are in the street because
14:31:07 there's no sidewalk around the other side of the road,
14:31:09 which I have petitioned to have a sidewalk put in.
14:31:13 On our side of the street.
14:31:15 There is on the opposite.
14:31:17 The sidewalk don't doesn't comment continue.
14:31:20 I like sitting on my porch and seeing the children go
14:31:22 up and down the road and play.
14:31:24 It's a wonderful neighborhood.
14:31:25 I don't want to you get the wrong idea about Gram's
14:31:28 Place and our neighborhood.
14:31:29 It is a great community.
14:31:31 And I thank you for listening to me once again.
14:31:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else like to speak?
14:31:38 Ms. Romeo, come back up in rebuttal.
14:31:48 >>> Transportation.
14:31:50 There were two transportation related issues that I
14:31:52 said I would come back to you guys and clear up one of
14:31:54 which is the dead palm, and the right-of-way was
14:31:56 cleaned up.
14:31:57 And the other with the accidents.
14:32:00 I know there's been a lot of talk about that.
14:32:02 In the past four years, there were as far as the city
14:32:05 is concerned, there were two crashes, one in
14:32:08 September, and one in August of 2005.
14:32:12 Both ran a stop sign.
14:32:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
14:32:23 >>> Sarah Romeo: Thank you very much.
14:32:27 A couple of points and then I will follow up with Mr.
14:32:29 Gentry. The corner that they are talking about where
14:32:31 there was a crash actually had nothing to do with
14:32:34 anything in the right-of-way.
14:32:35 As you approach that corner, the stop sign extends on
14:32:40 that side of the road approximately 10 feet beyond the
14:32:43 other corner.
14:32:44 In other words, the road is here on one side and back
14:32:47 here on the other side.
14:32:49 So in order for you to pull out, you have to pull way
14:32:52 up to the stop sign at which point you have about a
14:32:55 200-foot clearance all the way down the street.
14:32:58 So the only way that an accident could happen there
14:33:01 would be if someone actually ran the stop sign, which
14:33:03 is -- has nothing to do of course with our petition
14:33:07 here today.
14:33:09 One of the issues that was brought up was an overhang
14:33:15 and encroachment where rain water alleged to be
14:33:20 running onto the neighbor's yard.
14:33:22 If you notice, right here, we actually cut the entire
14:33:26 roof off just this week on the side of the building.
14:33:30 This fence here, and what you see here, against the
14:33:35 fence is not on our property.
14:33:36 It's in fact on the neighboring property.
14:33:39 So we have a very recent, in fact day before
14:33:44 yesterday, February 13th, survey, which I believe
14:33:47 you all have seen, which shows absolutely no
14:33:49 encroachments whatsoever in this area.
14:33:56 Mr. Holland is not a wealthy man.
14:33:59 He doesn't charge a lot.
14:34:01 Because as we told you a few weeks back, his guests
14:34:04 here are international travelers, particularly
14:34:06 They may come two or three at the time.
14:34:08 They are looking for a very inexpensive place to stay
14:34:11 because they are students, and they are welcome to
14:34:15 Tampa, and are very happy to stay in this location.
14:34:22 If Mr. Holland were wealthy and making huge profits,
14:34:25 he wouldn't have me as his representative.
14:34:27 He would have hired a very high priced attorney to
14:34:29 come up here and represent him.
14:34:32 [ Laughter ]
14:34:33 I can assure you that the monetary gain to me on this
14:34:36 is so far he bought me a cup of coffee while we were
14:34:41 waiting for you to come back into session today.
14:34:45 >>MARY ALVAREZ: No lunch?
14:34:46 >>> But he is very grateful for the help and I know
14:34:48 he's grateful for the support.
14:34:50 I see on TV a lot, and I know the ad campaign for the
14:34:53 current mayor is "I am Tampa."
14:34:55 And if there is anyone who is Tampa, it would be Mr.
14:34:59 He was born and raised here.
14:35:01 His entire family was born and raised here he's a
14:35:04 third generation Tampa native and is an ambassador to
14:35:08 our city and promoting.
14:35:09 This hostel that he runs in this small neighborhood is
14:35:12 actually the only hostel listed in the international
14:35:16 hostel directory that is listed anywhere in the United
14:35:20 His is the only one.
14:35:21 So it gives Tampa a little edge and gives it something
14:35:24 that other communities do not have.
14:35:27 He also, in your original package, you found that he
14:35:30 had a letter signed by former mayor Dick Greco, and by
14:35:36 Fernando Noriega.
14:35:39 I'm sure you all remember him.
14:35:41 They had actually, many, many years ago, supported
14:35:44 this project and encouraged Mr. Holland to continue to
14:35:47 do what he was doing, and the letter is in your
14:35:49 packages, the original letter.
14:35:52 He's been supported by no less than 68 letters.
14:35:56 I went through them during the break today.
14:36:00 It's a little odd of the numbers here and it may be
14:36:03 something that happened with another one of the
14:36:05 petitions earlier.
14:36:09 We have probably 50 petitions from direct
14:36:13 When the sign for rezoning went up I received one
14:36:16 phone call even though my name is on there for anyone
14:36:18 who had questions and that person actually said, what
14:36:20 can I do to help and support this?
14:36:22 I really, really like that business there on the
14:36:24 He really helps our neighborhood.
14:36:29 We have met with code.
14:36:31 We have been in touch with code.
14:36:33 We have talked both with Ms. Miller and Thom Snelling
14:36:36 regarding prior violations.
14:36:38 We believe at this time we have brought every
14:36:40 violation into compliance.
14:36:41 If we have not, I'm sure that code will let us know.
14:36:46 But Mr. Holland would just like the opportunity to
14:36:49 continue to operate exactly what he's been operating
14:36:51 there for many, many years.
14:36:54 It's not the Ritz Carlton.
14:36:55 It's not even the downtown waterside Marriott.
14:36:58 But it is a place where many, many people stay and
14:37:02 they have a very nice understanding of what Tampa is
14:37:05 in our neighborhood, not in downtown or not on the
14:37:09 So I just ask for your positive vote and your approval
14:37:13 of this petition today.
14:37:14 And I appreciate your support.
14:37:18 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Ms. Romeo, does Mr. Holland have
14:37:21 occupational licenses?
14:37:23 >> Yes, he does.
14:37:24 In fact he has been licensed and inspected annually
14:37:27 for the past 16 years, by the hotel-hotel restaurant
14:37:32 association, as well as the City of Tampa license.
14:37:36 We don't have a hostel license in the City of Tampa.
14:37:39 There's not a category as a bed and breakfast and has
14:37:45 been for many, many years.
14:37:46 >> I have a couple of questions.
14:37:48 The code violations.
14:37:49 Tell me more about that.
14:37:50 What's happening with that?
14:37:52 >> Well, some of them had to do with the vegetation.
14:37:56 Some of them had to do with the fence.
14:37:58 Because it was over in the front of the property,
14:38:04 which while we are doing this petition to ask for
14:38:06 waivers on that.
14:38:07 A few of the violations have to do with the planter
14:38:13 boxes on the front.
14:38:17 One of them had to do with a wooden fence needing to
14:38:22 be around where he stored his garbage cans.
14:38:26 All of those have been corrected.
14:38:28 >> Does he have any outstanding violations?
14:38:31 >> to my knowledge he has not.
14:38:33 >> And has he paid any fines?
14:38:35 >> Not yet, no.
14:38:36 >> Why is that?
14:38:37 >> Well, when we spoke with Mr. Snelling originally,
14:38:41 he asked that we go through this process, and at the
14:38:43 end of this process we will once again meet with him
14:38:46 to take care of any kind of violations that are
14:38:49 outstanding or any kind of -- anything else they may
14:38:53 We have complied with everything they asked us to do
14:38:57 that we received in writing.
14:38:59 >> One more question.
14:39:03 >>> Waiting to see what's going to happen here so he
14:39:07 and Mr. Snelling put everything on hold until this
14:39:09 process is complete.
14:39:10 >> Why did he build without permits?
14:39:13 >>> I really can't answer that question for him.
14:39:16 But I can say to you that the only places where people
14:39:20 are sleeping are in the two houses that have been on
14:39:22 the property for 85 years or more.
14:39:28 There are planks and walkways that join the properties
14:39:32 together inside the fence.
14:39:34 There is on the outside of the fence an area that is
14:39:37 like a patio bar.
14:39:38 He does not sell alcohol there, let me make that
14:39:41 perfectly clear.
14:39:41 He doesn't sell any kind of alcohol, food or beverages
14:39:44 at all.
14:39:44 But there is a little outside bar where people can
14:39:48 just sit there.
14:39:49 It's actually behind the fence you see on the front of
14:39:51 the property.
14:39:54 Different issues and items like that.
14:39:56 Other than that, there really has been nothing built
14:39:58 on the property.
14:39:59 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Ms. Romeo, how do you address the
14:40:06 concern that clearly there have been improper
14:40:14 additions added on, no permits pulled, building in the
14:40:17 setbacks, things of that nature, and now we are
14:40:21 basically being asked to just give him a free pass on
14:40:25 all of that.
14:40:28 That bothers me that for 20-some years all of these
14:40:32 things have been happening there, and he's got to be a
14:40:35 smart businessman.
14:40:36 He has to have known he needed to pull permits for
14:40:38 these things.
14:40:40 >> Actually, I would not refer to Mr. Holland -- and I
14:40:46 don't want to hurt his feelings.
14:40:48 I would not refer to Mr. Holland as a smart
14:40:52 I would refer to him as a person who loves what he
14:40:55 He loves providing this opportunity to people who
14:40:58 enjoy music and learn about Americana and about Tampa
14:41:02 in particular.
14:41:03 But I will tell you that one of the issues that I
14:41:05 personally addressed with him and with code is that we
14:41:08 do need to take a look at every single item there.
14:41:12 He has currently met with a structural engineer who is
14:41:18 going to come in and just look over every single thing
14:41:21 on his property and make assurances that there is no
14:41:24 issue there.
14:41:25 Unfortunately, because when could only get so much
14:41:28 done in the last few weeks.
14:41:30 We haven't been able to do that yet.
14:41:31 >> What is the ramifications of us approving this PD?
14:41:36 Is it that everything that's there is okay now?
14:41:43 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
14:41:45 This would just give them the ability in perpetuity to
14:41:48 allow everything to be located in the manner that it
14:41:52 is located for the structures to remain as they are.
14:41:55 This does not take them away from any obligation they
14:41:59 have to comply with the building code, and there would
14:42:01 be opportunity to have continued citations for failing
14:42:05 to pull permits, and then a requirement to get with
14:42:08 what he would seem like an after the fact permit.
14:42:12 They are in violation of the zoning.
14:42:13 Once they clear this hurdle they would have the
14:42:16 opportunity to go back to the building department,
14:42:18 have it reviewed, and have the building permits issued
14:42:21 after the fact.
14:42:22 If they failed to do that or they can't comply with
14:42:25 the building code requirements, then that's a separate
14:42:29 process for them to go through.
14:42:30 >> But this would allow them -- you take the footprint
14:42:33 of what's there now, and we are saying, okay, that's
14:42:37 okay, even though it's built into setbacks and right
14:42:39 up on the property lined and maybe even overhanging
14:42:42 other peoples property, and a patio on top of the roof
14:42:46 that looks down into the neighbor's property?
14:42:51 That's what we would be saying is okay if we grant
14:42:53 >> What would you be saying is okay, the zoning on the
14:42:56 property which would be the PD with the configuration
14:42:58 that it's currently in with the uses currently there
14:43:02 on the site plan is acceptable and is appropriate for
14:43:06 purposes of zoning.
14:43:08 And could they tear it down and rebuild it?
14:43:13 And if they have to comply with the building code then
14:43:16 they would need to reconstructs that they would have
14:43:19 that opportunity in conformance with the site plan
14:43:22 that you approved.
14:43:24 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: If I understood the testimony
14:43:26 earlier, if in fact there were encroachments over a
14:43:29 property line or onto other people's property, that's
14:43:32 not being authorized as part of this approval.
14:43:35 That has either been corrected or never actually
14:43:37 existed, correct?
14:43:40 >>> There are currently no encroachments.
14:43:41 They have been corrected.
14:43:43 But encroachments are not legal, period.
14:43:46 If in the future he constructed anything that
14:43:48 encroached, it certainly would not be legal.
14:43:50 And there are no encroachments at this time, which is
14:43:53 shown on that survey.
14:44:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I move to close.
14:44:10 >> Second.
14:44:10 >>CHAIRMAN: Motion and second.
14:44:12 (Motion carried)
14:44:13 Mr. Dingfelder?
14:44:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm going to move to approve the
14:44:21 It's really sad.
14:44:23 It's sad of this neighborhood, I use the term loosely,
14:44:29 hostility toward this hostel.
14:44:33 I remember when I was 18 years old, my best friend and
14:44:38 I hitch hiked across the country.
14:44:40 And it was one of the most memorable experiences of my
14:44:43 We went all the way out to California and up the west
14:44:45 coast and back.
14:44:46 And on a few occasions, on most occasions, we had to
14:44:51 we had five or ten dollars in our pocket and we would
14:44:54 look up a hostel in the hostel directory and we would
14:44:57 stop there.
14:44:58 And then we would stay for, I don't know, probably as
14:45:01 little as $3 a night.
14:45:03 But it was a wonderful opportunity as a young person
14:45:06 to be able to travel and to be able to see lots of
14:45:08 different cities across the country.
14:45:10 And we couldn't have done it if weighed to spend $25,
14:45:14 if that's what a motel hotel cost at the time, to stay
14:45:18 in a real motel.
14:45:19 And I think that's what's being offered here by Gram's
14:45:24 I never met the gentleman.
14:45:26 I know Ms. Romeo.
14:45:28 And for disclosure purposes, in the pink back there I
14:45:34 do recognize her face and she had worked with my
14:45:36 mother on my stepfather's issues.
14:45:38 I appreciate that.
14:45:40 Other than that we have in a relationship but that's
14:45:41 just disclosure.
14:45:43 But the reason I'm in favor of this is I think about
14:45:46 Seminole Heights as being a funky place, as being
14:45:50 alive and let live kind of place, where unique flavor
14:45:53 and unique atmosphere is something that's tolerated.
14:45:57 It's a little more laissez-faire than other parts of
14:46:00 And maybe I'm wrong and maybe it's changing and that
14:46:03 sort of thing.
14:46:04 But I think we have heard from a lot of people at the
14:46:08 first hearing who couldn't necessarily be here today.
14:46:11 But at the night meeting, heard from a lot of people
14:46:14 in that neighborhood who are totally in support of
14:46:16 They think it's a wonderful place and a wonderful as
14:46:18 set forth entire city, it gives young people from
14:46:22 Europe and all around the country to come here and see
14:46:25 how great our city is, just like I was able to travel
14:46:27 when I was young.
14:46:28 So are we going to do this on a week in and week out
14:46:32 basis and close our eyes to perhaps some little
14:46:35 unusual building structures?
14:46:37 This is not a slippery slope.
14:46:39 We are not going to continue to do this to the
14:46:42 detriment of the city.
14:46:43 But is this an unusual opportunity for to us perhaps
14:46:45 look the other way on this one occasion just because
14:46:48 it's such a neat and funky place?
14:46:50 I say yes, let it go.
14:46:52 That's my motion.
14:46:53 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I'll second that for discussion.
14:46:56 But, Mr. Dingfelder, it's Tampa Heights.
14:47:01 >> Tampa Heights.
14:47:01 I think Bern's as pretty cellular.
14:47:04 >>MARY ALVAREZ: And I don't know, if we can do that or
14:47:10 not, but I don't think you need a wood deck up there
14:47:13 so I would kind of like --
14:47:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I could speak to the wood deck?
14:47:18 For one thing it is not above 35 feet.
14:47:20 Virtually anybody in this city can plan a deck up on
14:47:24 their roof.
14:47:24 It's all over Davis Island.
14:47:27 You know, I've seen some in my neighborhood.
14:47:30 You can put a deck off of your balcony.
14:47:33 You can put it and it can be perched out and looking
14:47:35 over your neighbor.
14:47:36 And that is not a very unusual situation at all.
14:47:39 And as long as it's not higher than 35 feet that's
14:47:42 really within code.
14:47:47 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Second.
14:47:50 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I'm not at this point prepared to
14:47:52 support the PD and the reason why, I think there are a
14:47:54 lot of unanswered questions about the soundness of the
14:47:57 structure, the legality of the structures, regardless
14:48:01 of whether they were built in the setbacks or not.
14:48:04 I think that we are sending a message that I'm not
14:48:08 comfortable with sending.
14:48:09 And I don't know what the ramifications will be if we
14:48:12 grant this on the existing fines that have been
14:48:18 And what is the plan to pay those fines?
14:48:20 Remember when we chopped down all of those trees and
14:48:24 this council took great exception to that because they
14:48:27 came in after the fact and said, I'm sorry we have
14:48:29 done it, now we need to get the rezoning or a PD or
14:48:32 some sort of after-the-fact permission to do that.
14:48:35 And we were not happy about that.
14:48:38 No doubt this place has played a great role in the
14:48:41 history of Tampa Heights in Tampa.
14:48:43 But I think it's a bad message that we are sending.
14:48:47 I'm not saying that it can't be overcome.
14:48:50 But I'm not willing at this point to support this.
14:48:55 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I believe Ms. Cole has
14:48:57 confirmed that W staff outside, but I looked at the
14:49:00 current site plan, and I also have a concern as to the
14:49:03 legal sufficiency of the site plan as presented.
14:49:06 The use is not outlined on the site plan.
14:49:08 And I'm also concerned about the footprint.
14:49:11 But in fact the site plan contains existing structures
14:49:15 for which you are in effect granting waivers.
14:49:18 That would be the net effect.
14:49:20 And on the mechanism to do it appears to be a PD site
14:49:24 I just have concerns about that and would like to
14:49:27 address it with Ms. Cole.
14:49:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I can always convert my motion to
14:49:31 approve it contingent upon the petitioner coming back
14:49:35 and making specific graphic or word changes on the PD.
14:49:40 >> A graphic, no.
14:49:43 And I believe what the clerk has told me is that the
14:49:48 site plan next to the orthopedics is not the correct
14:49:50 site plan.
14:49:50 So what is before council --
14:49:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Let's see what Ms. Cole has to say.
14:49:55 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
14:49:57 What this site plan specifically says is, to bring
14:50:03 existing use into compliance.
14:50:05 I think what Marty's concern is -- and it's something
14:50:08 we have to think about -- is by just making that
14:50:11 statement, are you really tying the site plan down to
14:50:14 a specific use, you know, thinking down five or ten
14:50:17 years from now, it probably would have better to have
14:50:20 it say youth hostel or some other cellular use.
14:50:25 But it really isn't tying it down.
14:50:27 And I understand this has been in the process for some
14:50:31 But I think that is a legitimate concern that we
14:50:33 probably need to deal with.
14:50:37 And I think for the applicant to make it very specific
14:50:41 on the site plan what the use is.
14:50:44 In terms of what the specific site plan would be, what
14:50:47 I'm seeing attached to that is the two story residence
14:50:53 with all the associated buildings.
14:50:55 That would probably be sufficient to meet the
14:50:57 requirements of what you would consider a PD site
14:51:00 But you need to deal with the fact there's specific
14:51:04 use on the site plan.
14:51:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I don't know whether councilman
14:51:08 Harrison is going to raise this issue but my concern
14:51:11 also -- and I didn't have a chance to review that --
14:51:13 but what is the legal effect of that which is attached
14:51:16 to the site plan, and does that grant approval of all
14:51:20 those existing things for which you have raised a
14:51:23 concern in your discussion before council?
14:51:26 I am not prepared to answer that right now.
14:51:29 But the legal effect.
14:51:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: While we are figuring that out, I
14:51:38 didn't see on the site plan where it talked about the
14:51:40 waiver of all parking which then addresses of the
14:51:44 handicapped parking.
14:51:50 >> The way the law is if you waive all parking
14:51:53 requirements, which reference to it is removed from
14:51:56 the site plan, then there is no requirement for
14:52:00 specifically dedicated handicapped parking.
14:52:02 >> So wouldn't that need to be specifically mentioned
14:52:04 on the site plan?
14:52:09 >>> Number 3 says waiver to reduce parking to zero
14:52:14 from ten you are not specifically waiving handy parked
14:52:18 You are saying there is no parking required.
14:52:23 >> Waiving all parking.
14:52:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I remained council that the deputy
14:52:28 clerk reminds me that public hearing is closed at this
14:52:31 So I don't know what council's pleasure is.
14:52:33 There's a motion and second on the floor.
14:52:35 There is an ordinance before council.
14:52:37 There is a site plan that I believe the clerk does not
14:52:39 have a copy of the most original site plan.
14:52:43 Don't have the right one attached to the ordinance.
14:52:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Excuse me.
14:52:51 The site plan -- I can speak to Mr. Shelby. The site
14:52:55 plan that I am looking at has a six-foot fence but
14:53:01 doesn't indicate any structures within it.
14:53:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I don't believe that site plan makes
14:53:06 reference to the following attachment that Ms. Cole
14:53:12 made reference to that did have --
14:53:15 >> the second sheet?
14:53:18 >>> I have not seen it.
14:53:19 I don't believe the first page makes reference to
14:53:21 And incorporates that.
14:53:25 >>JULIA COLE: Specifically incorporates the second
14:53:36 It would be attached to the ordinance, the second page
14:53:38 probably would be better if we are going to have to
14:53:42 make a change on the site plan to make a specific use
14:53:44 to adding the reference that attached survey of the PD
14:53:52 site plan.
14:53:54 And I apologize but it appears the wrong zoning number
14:53:59 on that ordinance in front of us.
14:54:00 If we are going to go forward today, then I can go
14:54:02 ahead and make that change very quickly and bring down
14:54:05 an ordinance with the correct zoning number.
14:54:07 If we are going to continue this to allow this to be
14:54:09 changed, which would be my recommendation, so that we
14:54:13 can put the specific use on the site plan, and we'll
14:54:15 go ahead and correct that when it comes back to you.
14:54:20 >>FRANK REDDICK: Do we a motion?
14:54:22 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion on the floor.
14:54:24 We have a motion and second.
14:54:29 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I don't follow why the statement
14:54:33 that this is approved for the existing use.
14:54:36 I don't understand why that is less restrictive than
14:54:39 stating a designated use.
14:54:42 Because it would be limited to the current use.
14:54:45 It wouldn't be -- I guess I just didn't follow that
14:54:50 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry.
14:54:50 My question is, when somebody reviews that site plan,
14:54:54 sometime in the very far distant future, what is the
14:54:57 existing use, and how is that then determined?
14:55:02 >>JULIA COLE: The zoning approved on this property is
14:55:04 that ordinance and the site plan, and what in this
14:55:10 case would be an attached survey.
14:55:14 Physically all of the zoning ordinances that are
14:55:15 approved should say what that says, and while it may
14:55:20 ab question of a little bit splitting hairs on this
14:55:22 issue because it does say existing use, and from
14:55:26 ensuring that it's clear in the future, better
14:55:28 practice would to be put the specific use on here, a I
14:55:33 would recommend that we go ahead, if you are going to
14:55:35 approve it, approve it with a specific use.
14:55:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can we add two words, that our code
14:55:41 doesn't allow to us add two words today?
14:55:46 >> You want to change the ordinance?
14:55:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Two words on there, youth hostel.
14:55:55 >>JULIA COLE: Your code says you can't make any
14:55:57 changes without going back through the process to add
14:56:00 those words.
14:56:02 And the 13 day rule.
14:56:04 And the 10-day rule on all of those things.
14:56:11 I'll make it but just remember that that is not in
14:56:16 compliance with your code, and other folks --
14:56:20 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Yes, we make other people jump
14:56:23 through that hoop every meeting so I don't know why we
14:56:25 can't -- we can't make an exception here on that.
14:56:30 We have a motion on the floor toe approve as is.
14:56:34 And that motion was seconded by Ms. Alvarez.
14:56:37 So Mr. Dingfelder, do you want to continue with your
14:56:39 motion or do you want to withdraw that?
14:56:41 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And the question is does the
14:56:43 ordinance he's reading have to be altered?
14:56:57 Is the ordinance correct?
14:57:06 >>> I have to get an ordinance with the corrected
14:57:09 >>SHAWN HARRISON: So we don't have an ordinance that
14:57:11 we can even read.
14:57:12 >>JULIA COLE: You can go to the next item and I can
14:57:15 make that change very quickly and bring that back to
14:57:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let me throw something else out at
14:57:23 The youth hostel.
14:57:24 But the ordinance language says it.
14:57:27 So the ordinance language says slash youth hostel.
14:57:34 To me, it mate not be on the site plan but it's in the
14:57:38 An the ordinance goes hand in hand with the site plan
14:57:40 as part of the rezoning, correct?
14:57:43 >>JULIA COLE: That is absolutely true.
14:57:45 >> It might not be perfect.
14:57:47 >>> I will tell you it's not perfect:
14:57:52 I have to change the ordinance.
14:57:53 The ordinance had the wrong site plan, for some
14:57:59 There are two site plans.
14:58:00 I put the wrong site plan on it.
14:58:03 We can go straight through that site plan.
14:58:04 You can read the ordinance.
14:58:06 I will switch the ordinances out before the end.
14:58:10 >>SHAWN HARRISON: So Julia, I want to make sure.
14:58:13 Hang on, hang on.
14:58:14 I want to make sure, Julia, you're saying that we can
14:58:17 read this ordinance and see what happens with it right
14:58:19 now as is?
14:58:20 >>JULIA COLE: The only thing that's wrong with that
14:58:22 ordinance, there's two things wrong with that
14:58:24 ordinance at this point in time. The site plan that's
14:58:26 attached to the ordinance does not have the specific
14:58:28 use on it and the date on that ordinance has the wrong
14:58:31 date of the site plan.
14:58:33 I can strike out the date of the site plan.
14:58:35 There is no legal prohibition of me doing that,
14:58:38 putting another date and switch those two out.
14:58:40 You still have the problem that Mr. Shelby and I
14:58:43 advised you that the site plan does not contain a
14:58:45 specific use.
14:58:46 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Okay.
14:58:46 So we all understand exactly what we are voting on
14:58:49 We have a motion on the table to approve the
14:58:53 Actually, Mr. Dingfelder, just read the ordinance.
14:58:56 Always Alvarez we don't have two members.
14:58:58 >> Is Gwen coming back?
14:59:01 >>SHAWN HARRISON: No.
14:59:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't know where Linda is.
14:59:04 Call for Linda. An ordinance rezoning property in the
14:59:06 general vicinity of 3109 north Ola Avenue and 206 west
14:59:11 Plymouth street in the city of Tampa, Florida and more
14:59:14 particularly described in section 1 from zoning
14:59:16 district classifications RS-50, residential single
14:59:20 family, to PD, planned development, bed and
14:59:23 breakfast/youth hostel, providing an effective date.
14:59:28 >>SHAWN HARRISON: We have a motion and second.
14:59:30 Any discussion on the motion?
14:59:32 All in favor of the motion signify by saying Aye.
14:59:37 Motion carries 4 to 1.
14:59:43 All right.
14:59:43 Thank you all for coming on that one.
14:59:45 And we are on item number 69.
14:59:48 This was a continued appeal hearing.
14:59:49 >> Steve Graham, Parks and Recreation Department and I
15:00:25 have been sworn in, Mr. Shelby.
15:00:27 And I'm here for item number -- agenda item number 69.
15:00:31 Which pertains to the appeal of an administrative
15:00:35 decision to permit grand tree removal at 3404 west
15:00:40 Obispo street, due to structural damage to the
15:00:45 And you may recall that this is actually a
15:00:47 continuation from two weeks ago and at the end of that
15:00:53 presentation, as Mr. Dingfelder asked both the owner
15:00:58 and to investigational tern -- investigational tern
15:01:05 tiffs to remove the grand tree.
15:01:07 Both of them are here.
15:01:14 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Who is the petitioner?
15:01:15 >>> Ron Nobel representing the appellant.
15:01:18 I live across the street, also.
15:01:23 I have been sworn.
15:01:23 Thank you.
15:01:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Nobel was challenging the
15:01:26 administrative decision.
15:01:28 >>> Yes, we are working with the neighborhood to try
15:01:30 to preserve the tree and I have spoken with the
15:01:32 property owner a little bit.
15:01:34 She had some updates from you.
15:01:37 I had certified arborists who I think agreed with Mr.
15:01:42 Graham's assessment of the tree that it's -- that the
15:01:45 tree itself is not in bad condition, but it is
15:01:48 impairing the porch structure.
15:01:55 I think one of the solution that is Mr. Dingfelder
15:01:58 asked us to take a look at prior, I had an engineer
15:02:02 informally look it.
15:02:03 I don't have a report or anything.
15:02:05 But a temporary solution to address the structural
15:02:10 issue, with this column right here, which it seems to
15:02:13 be, the columns that Ms. Harris and her associate put
15:02:20 on at the last hearing was in the form of a temporary
15:02:24 brace that you see in construction projects, which has
15:02:27 addressed the Bolling and that structure.
15:02:35 Mr. Dingfelder asked is there something out there at a
15:02:38 cost that would be less than $2500, the lowest cost
15:02:43 estimate on tree removal, the arborist thought that
15:02:47 was the low-cost estimate but I'm sure that's a
15:02:50 written estimate that she had.
15:02:51 So the structure, that's really all that we had come
15:02:54 up with.
15:02:57 Something that could be done for under $2500 is a
15:03:01 nature which would be a temporary type fix, using one
15:03:03 of those adjustable metal supports which would
15:03:06 essentially replace that column, and would take the
15:03:10 pressure off the porch that her structural folks
15:03:15 looked at.
15:03:16 In reviewing the record, that is not a finding that
15:03:19 city staff made in relying upon their decision to
15:03:22 grant this.
15:03:23 City staff is simply relying on damage to a porch
15:03:26 structure, and down here, which sort of again is the
15:03:30 first time I don't even believe meets the code
15:03:33 criteria for a hazardous tree.
15:03:35 We have already been through that.
15:03:41 Really, again, the engineering tests that we have been
15:03:46 able to evaluate is of a temporary nature.
15:03:48 And again, now, the nature of this structure, I mean,
15:03:53 it's an impaired structure.
15:03:58 As she said put a new roof on it.
15:04:00 But as she mentioned at the last hearing it's not
15:04:02 going to be there for the long run.
15:04:03 And that's all we have right now.
15:04:06 I just reserve any additional time that I have to
15:04:08 address any mitigation requirements and address a
15:04:12 couple issues after Ms. Hazard's presentation.
15:04:17 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you, sir.
15:04:19 >>SHAWN HARRISON: All right.
15:04:23 >>> My name is Amy Houser.
15:04:27 I own the property at 3404 Obispo.
15:04:30 I have letters from builders that have looked at it,
15:04:33 an arborist, city inspector.
15:04:45 Yes, I have been sworn in.
15:04:51 At the last herring I was asked to investigate means
15:04:53 of saving the tree.
15:04:54 The letters that I have gotten, two of which I just
15:04:56 got late last night, so I can't even quote them yet
15:05:00 because I just got them.
15:05:02 But no one seemed to think that the tree could really
15:05:06 be saved.
15:05:11 It becomes one with the house at this point.
15:05:15 And we had our structural criteria at the last hearing
15:05:19 when I had the city inspector, chief building
15:05:22 inspector here, and the photograph, the things that I
15:05:24 showed, I thought that he had clarified that we did
15:05:26 have a serious structural issue with this tree.
15:05:32 Mr. Nobles' appeal was based on that I failed to meet
15:05:37 the criteria of structural damage, which I think we
15:05:39 did already clarify that, and that I did not do the
15:05:42 noticing procedural correctly.
15:05:44 An that was approved by the Parks Department.
15:05:46 But I did follow those procedures correctly.
15:05:51 This has been four months in the making.
15:05:52 And you are reading letters now which basically say
15:05:59 there's in a real known way.
15:06:00 Mr. Nobel simply simplified the answer putting a post.
15:06:04 What would the post sit on?
15:06:06 Is it going to sit on the same concrete porch that's
15:06:08 already been uplifted and cracked by the trees? What
15:06:12 does it sit on?
15:06:21 That's a very vague recommendation.
15:06:22 I did speak to engineers none of which would come out
15:06:25 and look at it so I did go to two very established
15:06:28 contractors for help on this.
15:06:29 And an arborist who is also a very established
15:06:33 long-term arborist in the City of Tampa that is
15:06:36 familiar with this sort of procedure.
15:06:40 Basically, I feel that I have met the criteria.
15:06:43 It was approved by the city Parks Department.
15:06:46 It's approved by the chief building inspector for the
15:06:49 City of Tampa.
15:06:51 And I just ask that you up hold what the city has
15:06:54 approved and deny Mr. Nobles appeal.
15:06:58 Thank you.
15:06:59 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Thank you.
15:07:00 Does the appellant have any time for rebuttal on this,
15:07:04 Mr. Shelby?
15:07:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, he can rebut.
15:07:08 >>> The engineer that we had actually used the
15:07:11 existing foundation out there for the porch.
15:07:14 It's cracked but that's the concept of the adjustable
15:07:17 It is adjustable to the extent that it's really not a
15:07:21 second porch at this point.
15:07:24 , the tree appears to be lifting it up so it's not a
15:07:26 sinking foundation, it's an elevating foundation.
15:07:30 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Mr. Dingfelder?
15:07:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Nobel, I'm familiar with the
15:07:34 temporary thing you are talking about.
15:07:35 You see them during construction.
15:07:39 It's kind of a metal post and sort of a screw
15:07:42 And as you need to, you adjust the screw up or down.
15:07:45 And I think to answer your question, ma'am, I think
15:07:48 that's what he's suggesting is, yes, it would sit on
15:07:50 your existing foundation, but, you know, you adjust
15:07:56 the tension, and that eases back so as the tree grows
15:08:01 you adjust it back, and you ease it back and you
15:08:05 adjust it accordingly.
15:08:06 I don't know if that makes sense.
15:08:07 But --
15:08:09 >>> That's the technology.
15:08:12 >> But it's also not very attractive.
15:08:15 >>> Not attractive at all.
15:08:17 >> With that said, I think you could frame around it
15:08:19 pretty easily and paint it White and it would almost
15:08:23 pretty much look like the post that's there, which is,
15:08:26 you know, this is not a major antebellum structure we
15:08:32 are talking about either.
15:08:34 So I think that there could be something creative done
15:08:37 that way.
15:08:37 Mr. Nobel, you said -- who told you about the screw
15:08:40 post idea?
15:08:42 >>> An engineer that I had -- getting professional
15:08:48 structural engineers to come out to the site to, you
15:08:50 know, look at it and get an opinion.
15:08:53 I did have arborists out to the site.
15:08:56 And I had some folks that are engineers that are
15:08:57 familiar with the property, familiar with our
15:08:59 neighborhood that that was their suggestion.
15:09:02 They have not given me anything in writing along those
15:09:04 lines, though.
15:09:06 Again the constraint I was really going on from
15:09:08 council's direction last time was the.
15:09:11 >> Z 2500 fix or constraint, if you will, what could
15:09:14 be done.
15:09:16 >> Taking out the concrete post and putting in one of
15:09:18 these metal posts doesn't in any way necessary
15:09:23 approach $2,000.
15:09:25 >> That was the understanding, yes.
15:09:27 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Thank you.
15:09:29 Any other questions of the appellant?
15:09:33 Unless somebody has a question for you.
15:09:35 Any other questions for Mr. Nobel, the appellant?
15:09:38 All right.
15:09:43 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Question for city staff, Julia or
15:09:45 whoever is the attorney that can advise us on the
15:09:47 process here.
15:09:52 If I remember correctly from the last hearing, you are
15:09:57 sitting in a posture where reviewing an administrative
15:10:00 decision, an appellate process. The burden is on the
15:10:04 appellant to provide competent, substantial evidence
15:10:07 of what?
15:10:12 >>JULIA COLE: Thank you.
15:10:12 I was going to remind you all where you are.
15:10:14 The code provides for termination of the right to
15:10:19 remove the grand tree if there is structural damage to
15:10:22 a building.
15:10:23 So that determination has been made in this instance
15:10:25 by staff.
15:10:27 And the way the code reads is as follows.
15:10:30 And this is a 1345, section C.
15:10:34 Grand trees shall be permitted to be removed if the
15:10:38 director of the development and director of parks and
15:10:42 recreation his or her designee make the determination
15:10:46 that the grand tree has grown or likely to grow in one
15:10:50 year in such a man theory is causing or will cause
15:10:53 structural damage to the foundation, structural wall
15:10:55 or structural roof of an existing building.
15:10:58 That determination was made both by the directors of
15:11:03 parks and the chief bidding inspector that in fact
15:11:05 this tree is causing structural damage currently.
15:11:08 So we don't even get to the one-year aspect of it.
15:11:11 And that is what is in front of you.
15:11:13 You have to take the testimony that is made part of
15:11:16 the record and make that determination whether or not
15:11:19 it has been shown that this tree has or will within a
15:11:22 year cause structural damage, in that instance, if
15:11:25 that determination is made, then you can overturn the
15:11:27 decision of the staff.
15:11:33 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: And that evidence has been has to
15:11:35 be competent evidence in the record?
15:11:37 >>> That's correct.
15:11:37 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I have a follow-up question.
15:11:40 And the code presently sounds like it says
15:11:42 structure -- I mean damage to any structure.
15:11:44 In this case, we are talking about damage to the front
15:11:48 porch, not the main dwelling portion of the house.
15:11:52 And I wonder -- he wonder if maybe -- I don't think we
15:11:58 have any choice in this case.
15:11:59 But in the future, when you're talking about damage
15:12:01 to, you know, an outstructure, an outbuilding, a front
15:12:06 porch, something like that, that doesn't necessarily
15:12:08 jeopardize the living area, I wonder if we can craft
15:12:13 some sort of compromises.
15:12:15 Because it seems a shame to lose this tree, because
15:12:19 it's damaging a corner of the front porch.
15:12:23 And how dangerous is that really to the people that
15:12:26 live in the house, or the people that live next door?
15:12:30 >>JULIA COLE: It may be worth to the clarify the issue
15:12:32 but you may recall there was testimony from the chief
15:12:35 building inspector at the last hearing that this front
15:12:37 porch is integral to the structure, the roof line, the
15:12:41 same underneath foundation, because that I shall did
15:12:44 you come up.
15:12:44 Mr. Nobel did raise that issue that in fact this
15:12:48 doesn't comply because this section only applies to
15:12:50 the main structure but there was evidence placed in
15:12:52 the record whether or not -- it's within your
15:12:56 authority that this particular front porch is so
15:12:59 integral to the main structure that they consider them
15:13:02 one in the same.
15:13:03 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Thank you.
15:13:03 Any other questions of Ms. Cole?
15:13:05 All right.
15:13:06 Sorry, Mr. Nobel.
15:13:09 >>> One final comment not addressed.
15:13:11 This is on the mitigation criteria and on behalf of
15:13:16 the neighborhood, they would also ask for parks
15:13:21 consideration and -- and if council is declined to
15:13:26 deny the appeal on the mitigation requirements, the
15:13:30 permit would require two replacement four inch trees,
15:13:34 and she said they have a grand oak in the back
15:13:37 property line.
15:13:39 I don't know of any additional trees in the backyard
15:13:41 are going to do a lot of good.
15:13:43 I don't know that four two-inch trees in the front
15:13:46 yard are really going to be appropriate.
15:13:48 I would just ask if Mrs. Houser would have any
15:13:50 objections or parks, if you could incorporate in parks
15:13:53 permit approval since we are taking down a grand oak
15:13:55 that it be possible to mitigate instead of four
15:13:58 two-inch variety species of the trees, two four-inch
15:14:02 oaks as the mitigation alternative.
15:14:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I would just caution that I
15:14:06 don't believe that's part of your determinations in
15:14:09 this case as to whether or not you can discuss what
15:14:14 the mitigation would be.
15:14:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We've done that.
15:14:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: In an appeal setting?
15:14:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Not in an appeal setting.
15:14:23 We have done in the zoning.
15:14:24 >>SHAWN HARRISON: We'll make our decision and then
15:14:25 we'll get the owner and we'll ask her that.
15:14:28 Any further questions?
15:14:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: If we close we can't ask her.
15:14:36 >>SHAWN HARRISON: It's not relevant to the appeal.
15:14:39 We can't ask her that anyway.
15:14:41 Motion to close.
15:14:43 >> So moved.
15:14:43 >> Second.
15:14:43 (Motion carried).
15:14:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm going to move to grant the
15:14:48 I think that the evidence supports the appeal.
15:14:52 And it's competent, substantial evidence.
15:14:54 And I think the tree should be saved.
15:15:00 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Let me jump in there, Mr. Chair.
15:15:03 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion.
15:15:04 Is there a second?
15:15:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second for discussion.
15:15:07 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Mr. Fletcher?
15:15:08 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: If I remember what we heard so
15:15:10 far, the only people that we have heard testimony for
15:15:14 that have professional certifications relating to
15:15:18 There's been city staff.
15:15:19 And I believe there is a witness provided by the
15:15:25 Every piece of testimony we have heard, that I've
15:15:27 heard, that I recall, supported the determination that
15:15:33 the tree was affecting the structure of the building.
15:15:38 And as much as I would like to save that tree, I have
15:15:44 not heard any testimony, with all due respect to Mr.
15:15:48 Nobel, that I would view as competent to support the
15:15:52 conclusion that the tree is not undermining the
15:15:56 structure and the integrity of the building.
15:16:00 So as much as I would like to save that tree, I don't
15:16:02 feel that legally I have the authority to do that.
15:16:08 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I agree with Mr. Fletcher.
15:16:10 Mr. Nobel, who I respect, and believe him to be a
15:16:14 competent lawyer, offer nothing other than textbook
15:16:19 hearsay for his support.
15:16:20 There is no competent substantial evidence in the
15:16:23 record that there is any alternative other than the
15:16:26 removal of the tree.
15:16:28 So I will not support the motion.
15:16:29 We have a motion on the floor and a second.
15:16:31 To -- the appellant is the property owner affected and
15:16:39 not the person removing the tree, and so your motion,
15:16:41 Mr. Dingfelder, is to --
15:16:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No, the appellant is Mr. Nobel.
15:16:47 The motion is to grant Mr. Noble's appeal.
15:16:53 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Grant the appeal which would many we
15:16:55 are overturning the decision of the --
15:16:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Correct.
15:17:00 >>SHAWN HARRISON: All in favor of that motion signify
15:17:02 by saying Aye.
15:17:03 Opposed, Nay.
15:17:06 This matter will be carried over until next week.
15:17:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The hearing is closed.
15:17:12 Under unfinished business.
15:17:14 There will be no additional testimony taken.
15:17:16 I will ask that the aides for the absent council
15:17:20 members, council member Reddick, council member
15:17:23 Alvarez, and chair Miller, to have the opportunity to
15:17:26 have them review the record prior to casting their
15:17:30 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Very well.
15:17:33 There being in a further business to come before
15:17:35 council we'll go to information reports and new
15:17:37 business by council members starting with Mr.
15:17:41 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Okay.
15:17:46 Somewhere under all this paper, I have some
15:17:49 information about the film festival that's coming up.
15:18:00 It's starting on February 28, the Tampa Theatre.
15:18:03 And a lot of council members go.
15:18:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Two items quickly.
15:18:10 Number one, I would like to move to set a special
15:18:12 discussion meeting for Tuesday, February 27th, at
15:18:15 9 a.m. to discuss the proposed A.R.C. ordinance.
15:18:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: When is it?
15:18:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Tuesday, February 27th, 9 a.m
15:18:27 That way if there are any messages.
15:18:29 We mentioned this a couple weeks ago.
15:18:31 It's going to go before the Planning Commission,
15:18:39 March 12.
15:18:42 >> Have you been getting good turnouts at these
15:18:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No, but I want frankly to hear from
15:18:47 the public.
15:18:48 I mean, I recognize.
15:18:49 Believe me, if the public wants to say something they
15:18:51 will share it with the the other council members but
15:18:53 it's the only way that I can hear from the public, and
15:18:57 get their input.
15:18:58 And this is going to come before council on the
15:19:00 15th before the Planning Commission on March 12.
15:19:04 Before council again on the 29th.
15:19:06 And this is an effort to, you know --
15:19:10 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Ms. Saul-Sena wants to have a
15:19:12 Does anyone really oppose that?
15:19:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
15:19:15 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Motion and second.
15:19:17 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Again that's a special discussion
15:19:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Special discussion meeting in the
15:19:22 Mascotte room, Tuesday, February 27th.
15:19:24 Mr. Snelling asked me to do it I want to do it and
15:19:27 hear from the public.
15:19:28 Secondly, I went to a sustainability conference last
15:19:36 Friday write learned how many wonderful cities in this
15:19:40 country, and specifically Sarasota and Pinellas County
15:19:43 and the state, are thinking about sustainability in
15:19:46 terms of the decisions they make as a council.
15:19:48 I looked on -- it was a great conference.
15:19:52 I looked at today's agenda, and I discovered six
15:19:55 different items that if we thought about
15:19:59 sustainability we might make different decisions on.
15:20:02 One is about the cleaning supplies we buy for our
15:20:05 Another is what we do with some public lands.
15:20:09 Another is what we do in terms of flood protection.
15:20:14 A variety of things that if we made our decisions
15:20:17 thinking about sustainability, we might make better
15:20:24 So I don't really have an idea yet how to best address
15:20:27 this for the City of Tampa but I am going to get my
15:20:30 intern to work on it and set up a meeting sometime in
15:20:32 March after the election, to look at how we can make
15:20:39 decisions to support a more sustainable city.
15:20:41 So that's kind of a heads-up.
15:20:43 If you all have any good ideas or information, I'm
15:20:45 going to set this for sometime in March.
15:20:51 That's it.
15:20:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Chairman Miller passed this on
15:20:55 to me from Mindy Snyder.
15:20:57 The cable television staff would like us to
15:21:00 participate with the mayor on March 1st at noon,
15:21:03 Thursday, March 1st at noon, as part of the
15:21:06 mayor's annual state of the city's video.
15:21:10 And there will be lunch served.
15:21:12 So let Mindy know if you have a problem with that
15:21:16 Otherwise I think she's going to schedule that.
15:21:19 Council day, March 1st at noon.
15:21:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did you know how long it was going to
15:21:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Last time it took the whole hour
15:21:28 and a half.
15:21:30 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Anything else?
15:21:32 Mr. Fletcher?
15:21:35 Are you ready now?
15:21:36 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: The Gasparilla film festival is a
15:21:39 great program these coming up starting on February
15:21:41 28th and running through the first week of March.
15:21:44 And I will be e-mailing out to everybody a link to the
15:21:48 web site where you can buy tickets.
15:21:49 The first opening of that event is at the Tampa
15:21:52 It's a great event with some wonderful college-made
15:21:56 And I would encourage everybody to find time to
15:21:59 participate at some point during the film festival.
15:22:02 And I will be back next week with more specific
15:22:08 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I have two.
15:22:08 Mr. Shelby, go ahead.
15:22:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, did you want to go
15:22:12 >>SHAWN HARRISON: No.
15:22:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You two issues very briefly.
15:22:16 The first being that council has requested next week a
15:22:21 representative from the Florida Department of
15:22:22 Transportation to discuss the Gandy issues.
15:22:26 Through communications I have had in a success
15:22:30 ensuring that there will be someone there from FDOT
15:22:34 next week and I was wondering whether council wishes
15:22:36 me to continue trying to do that or does council wish
15:22:39 me to reschedule it?
15:22:41 The chair's aide was out for a period of a week on
15:22:44 annual leave and it was miscommunications on my part,
15:22:47 and I have still been unable to confirm whether or not
15:22:50 there will be somebody present from FDOT next week.
15:22:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Why don't you have Mr. Harrison
15:22:56 help you on that?
15:22:57 And if we can't do it then we can reschedule it.
15:23:02 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Is this actually on the agenda for
15:23:03 next week?
15:23:05 If it's on the agenda we'll see if we can pull it off.
15:23:07 If not we'll reschedule it that day.
15:23:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And the last thing, I understand you
15:23:15 have been receiving a lot of correspondence from
15:23:18 constituents with the demolition at 5302 witham court.
15:23:23 And I have been in touch with Gary Glassman, the
15:23:25 assistant city attorney handling this case.
15:23:28 It is in fact in litigation.
15:23:30 It is presently, even as we speak, before a judge for
15:23:34 So I would just, number one, caution council as to
15:23:37 discussing the case with constituents, and making any
15:23:43 conclusiary estimates, and if you wish to have any
15:23:45 information about where this case stands, I would be
15:23:47 happy to assist you, or Mr. Glassman would be, I'm
15:23:51 sure, able to fill you in.
15:23:52 He's personally handling this case.
15:23:55 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Thank you, Mr. Shelby.
15:23:56 All right.
15:23:57 I have one item.
15:24:00 I had opportunity to tour Palmetto Beach over the
15:24:04 weekend, and got to see some of these shops out in the
15:24:11 bay that have been sort of damaged by high winds and
15:24:13 water and things like that, and the walkways south of
15:24:18 them have fallen in.
15:24:19 Some of them are being rebuilt, maybe without permits.
15:24:23 I don't know that.
15:24:23 But in any event, I would like to ask someone from our
15:24:28 code enforcement, as well as the port authority to
15:24:31 come in two weeks to address who has jurisdiction over
15:24:35 these structures, and this code -- does code
15:24:39 enforcement apply in the City of Tampa?
15:24:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Legal?
15:24:43 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Yes, legal, code enforcement and the
15:24:45 port authority.
15:24:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Our legal, Morris Massey, one of
15:24:50 those memos.
15:24:53 >> Second.
15:24:53 (Motion carried).
15:24:56 >>SHAWN HARRISON: That's all I have.
15:24:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Fletcher, did you get it?
15:25:01 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I'll just get the information.
15:25:03 It's February 28th at the Tampa Theatre.
15:25:05 And then there will be a party after that.
15:25:09 It goes until 2 a.m. so it's going to be a great event
15:25:13 at the Tampa theater, starts at seven.
15:25:15 It's open to the public.
15:25:18 A variety of movies that they are going to be
15:25:21 screening as I mentioned.
15:25:22 Some innovative film makers.
15:25:25 I encourage anybody to go.
15:25:27 And take a look and sign up.
15:25:29 And I'll be e-mailing that web site to everybody.
15:25:33 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Excellent.
15:25:34 Thank you.
15:25:35 Is there any comment from the public?
15:25:37 There is none.
15:25:39 >>THE CLERK: You need a motion to receive and file all
15:25:42 the documents.
15:25:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
15:25:44 >> Second.
15:25:45 (Motion carried).
15:25:45 >>THE CLERK: The other item I have is a motion made by
15:25:48 council member Saul-Sena, second by Dingfelder, back
15:25:52 on January 25th.
15:25:54 You had requested David McCary to appear before
15:25:58 council on a quarterly basis to provide a report
15:26:00 regarding the green steps the city is taking but
15:26:04 didn't indicate when you wanted the quarterly reports
15:26:06 to start.
15:26:10 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Next quarter.
15:26:15 >> Second week in April.
15:26:16 >>THE CLERK: Do you want to make that as a motion?
15:26:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
15:26:20 >> Second.
15:26:20 (Motion carried).
15:26:21 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Anything else to come before
15:26:23 We are adjourned.
15:26:24 (Meeting adjourned)