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09:05:23 Tampa City Council
09:05:25 Thursday, February 22, 2007
09:05:29 9:00 a.m. session

09:16:34 >>GWEN MILLER: The chair will yield to Mary Alvarez.
09:16:38 >>MARY ALVAREZ: It's a great pleasure this morning to
09:16:40 introduce the pastor Thomas Haddon with people for
09:16:46 Christ ministries.
09:16:49 He and his wife Angie are co-pastors in the
09:16:53 Thonotosassa, which is seven years old.
09:16:55 Pastor Haddon, thank you for giving us the invocation
09:17:00 today.

09:17:00 Please remain standing for the pledge of allegiance.
09:17:05 >>> I want to thank you for having us here today.
09:17:10 Our church is seven years old and we are impacting
09:17:15 people's lives spiritually, and economically we also
09:17:19 feed the homeless.
09:17:21 We also want to be a alcohol and drug rehab center and
09:17:25 have be able to empower the people after they have
09:17:29 been saved to turn their lives around.
09:17:31 Again thank you for having us.
09:17:33 Father God, we just thank you today for waking us up
09:17:35 and just giving us a new day.
09:17:37 Lord, we just come right now asking you to give us the
09:17:40 wisdom, the knowledge, and let us use the talents and
09:17:44 the gifts that you have in order to impact our city
09:17:49 and community.
09:17:50 Right now we pray that you bless the councilmen.
09:17:52 We pray that you bless the people that are here today
09:17:54 spiritually, physically, and financially, as we
09:17:57 undertake the endeavor to have a better place to live
09:18:01 and to make Tampa the number one city, and we are just
09:18:05 going to give you the praise, give you all of the
09:18:08 glory and almighty all knowing name Jesus.

09:18:12 Let everyone say amen.
09:18:14 Let us remain standing for the pledge of allegiance.
09:18:17 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
09:18:34 Roll call.
09:18:34 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Here.
09:18:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
09:18:37 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Here.
09:18:39 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Here.
09:18:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
09:18:41 >>FRANK REDDICK: Here.
09:18:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:18:42 At this time we are going to have a commendation
09:18:44 presented by Mr. Shawn Harrison.
09:18:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: While Mr. Harrison is going up to
09:18:50 the microphone, I would just like to share that we have
09:18:54 brochures about prayer that's appropriate in public
09:18:56 settings that I will give to the council members that
09:18:59 they can share with the people who provide invocations
09:19:02 for us.
09:19:02 Thank you.
09:19:03 >>SHAWN HARRISON: This morning, it's my privilege to
09:19:11 introduce a person who has been a friend of mine ever

09:19:16 since I have lived in Florida.
09:19:17 We came to school at USF together when we were both 18
09:19:20 and we have been friends since then.
09:19:23 Jim Harvey is the local director of a developer out in
09:19:32 various areas of the community, and they have done
09:19:35 some really special things.
09:19:36 And I just think when people do good things they ought
09:19:39 to be highlighted so let me tell you a little bit
09:19:41 about what they have done.
09:19:43 And then I am going to read this commendation.
09:19:46 When they developed a community in New Tampa called
09:19:49 Grand Hampton they moved 100 grand trees, so that
09:19:53 those trees could be saved, and they would line the
09:19:55 Boulevard of the drive into their clubhouse.
09:20:00 It's an absolutely gorgeous community.
09:20:02 It's environmentally sensitive.
09:20:03 It's environmentally friendly.
09:20:05 And it's even, I think, won high prizes from the
09:20:10 Sierra Club.
09:20:11 So you can tell that these guys really are doing it
09:20:13 right when it comes to developing areas.
09:20:16 And I think when people take the extra effort, spend a

09:20:20 little bit of their own money to make sure that things
09:20:23 are developed properly, we ought to highlight that.
09:20:26 And in addition to that, what they have done recently,
09:20:28 they took 150 light poles that they had, that were
09:20:34 slated to be used in their community and donated them
09:20:36 to the City of Tampa to be used in historic areas of
09:20:39 town, to increase public safety.
09:20:43 Instead of putting in regular light poles, these are
09:20:45 the more decorative poles.
09:20:47 They look nice.
09:20:48 They go with the historic character and feel of those
09:20:50 neighborhoods in the City of Tampa.
09:20:52 And so it's a great opportunity for us this morning to
09:20:55 say thank you to guys that are doing it right out
09:20:57 there. So let me present this commendation.
09:21:01 Tampa City Council commendation presented to land MAR
09:21:04 development and Grand Hampton community, in
09:21:06 appreciation of your donation of 150 light poles to
09:21:09 the City of Tampa Parks and Recreation Department, to
09:21:12 be used in parks and trails located in historic areas
09:21:15 of the city, saving the city over $100,000, and in
09:21:19 appreciation of your relocation of several grand trees

09:21:22 to line your main boulevard into Grand Hampton, the
09:21:25 Tampa City Council hereby commends land MAR
09:21:28 development and the Grand Hampton community.
09:21:30 Thus presented this 22nd day of January 2007.
09:21:34 I think we ought to say thanks to people out there
09:21:36 that are doing the right thing in the business
09:21:38 community and for our citizens.
09:21:40 So, Jim, on behalf of the Tampa City Council City
09:21:43 Council, the entire City of Tampa, thank you very
09:21:44 much.
09:21:45 And we'll let you say a few words.
09:21:48 [ Applause ]
09:21:52 >> When Shawn asked me to come accept this
09:21:55 commendation I didn't know I was going to get that
09:22:00 praise.
09:22:00 Again it's a great honor to be part of the City of
09:22:02 Tampa.
09:22:03 Land MAR certainly likes to connect with our
09:22:06 communities, and not only the community we are
09:22:09 developing but the community at large.
09:22:11 And we plan to be here for a long time.
09:22:14 And we appreciate the opportunity to be able to give

09:22:17 back.
09:22:18 Thank you very much.
09:22:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I wanted to say that the
09:22:26 transformation, the Sierra Club said you couldn't do
09:22:32 the golf course, instead you decided to do the
09:22:35 wetlands.
09:22:35 It was a great shift in awareness to saving the grand
09:22:38 trees, to recognizing the value of protecting the
09:22:40 wetlands, setting aside the green spaces and frankly
09:22:43 long-term sustainabilitywise, I think that the green
09:22:46 spaces that you all created will be a bigger draw to
09:22:49 your residents and increase the value of the property
09:22:52 more than the original golf course would have.
09:22:54 And it will certainly create a healthier environment.
09:22:56 And I think you have really got something to be very,
09:22:59 very proud of.
09:23:00 So congratulations today.
09:23:02 >> And Ms. Saul-Sena, that's a good point.
09:23:04 This community also has the very first of the TND and
09:23:10 neotraditional developments that we have anywhere in
09:23:12 the City of Tampa.
09:23:14 And I think Jim will tell you that those housing

09:23:17 products are selling like hot cakes.
09:23:19 So that really is a great way of development.
09:23:22 And I think it's a trend of the future.
09:23:24 And these guys have shown that it does work here in
09:23:26 Tampa.
09:23:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Congratulations.
09:23:28 Thank you for the work that you're doing.
09:23:31 At this time we have a commendation presented by Mr.
09:23:33 John Dingfelder.
09:23:54 >> We have an.
09:23:57 An opportunity here to recollect in addition an
09:24:00 American hero. For those of us who are old enough to
09:24:04 remember, on January 23rd, 1968, the USS Pueblo
09:24:09 was attacked by sea and air units at north Korea.
09:24:14 Everybody remembers that?
09:24:15 When you say the Pueblo, remember the Pueblo, he would
09:24:18 all kind of remembered that.
09:24:19 During that tragic incident, December 3rd --
09:24:23 excuse me, December 23rd, 1968, one American died
09:24:26 in the incident and 82 surviving member of the Pueblo
09:24:29 were captured and held prisoner for eleven months
09:24:32 until their release in 1968.

09:24:37 Our local South Tampa native, Mr. Steve Robin, who is
09:24:44 here today, was on that ship along with his brave ship
09:24:47 mates.
09:24:48 And I'm going to go ahead and give Mr. Robins this
09:24:50 commendation and I'll continue reading it.
09:24:53 Mr. Robins is a graduate of Plant High School, also
09:24:56 Wilson middle school, and a resident of -- originally
09:25:00 a resident of Davis Island.
09:25:01 He not only served with honor in the U.S. Navy during
09:25:03 that incident but later became a police officer and
09:25:06 ultimately retired as a federal government worker.
09:25:08 And what makes Steve really special is that not only
09:25:12 was he involved in this issue 38 years ago, which was
09:25:17 I'm sure a very scary time for him, but he's given
09:25:24 back.
09:25:24 In November, Mr. Robins spoke at MacDill Air Force
09:25:29 Base during a tribute to veterans program.
09:25:33 Steve is an outstanding citizen and a patriot of spoke
09:25:35 of how he assists other veterans and current members
09:25:38 of the military as they are returning from active
09:25:41 duty.
09:25:41 And we all know that right now we are involved in

09:25:45 several issues around the world.
09:25:47 And not only are we losing men and women who are
09:25:51 killed, but the ones that I think are not mentioned
09:25:54 are the ones that are coming back that are wounded or
09:25:59 traumatized and Steve is working with them to help
09:26:01 them readjust to our society.
09:26:03 Based on his own experiences 38 years ago off the
09:26:06 coast of north Korea, Steve seems to be the ideal
09:26:10 candidate to help others returning from war.
09:26:12 Council, I know you join me in recognizing the efforts
09:26:15 of Steve Robbins for his actions in helping our fellow
09:26:18 countrymen then and now, and we applaud him as an
09:26:21 outstanding member of our Tampa community.
09:26:23 Thank you.
09:26:38 >>> I really did not prepare anything for today.
09:26:40 And I know that this is an important time.
09:26:44 I noticed in the paper what's going on with our
09:26:49 veterans coming back at the Walter Reed, and I know
09:26:51 how hard it is for this readjustment.
09:26:55 However, I can say many years later that with the
09:26:58 proper help that we can be successful in society.
09:27:02 So again I appreciate your consideration and your

09:27:06 commendation.
09:27:07 Thank you.
09:27:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
09:27:16 Now we go to the sign-in sheet.
09:27:18 Ms. Cathy Coyle.
09:27:20 Is Ms. Cathy Coyle outside?
09:27:26 Then we will go to approval of the agenda.
09:27:28 I would like to move item 14 up first in our agenda
09:27:32 when we come to unfinished business.
09:27:36 I have a motion and second.
09:27:37 (Motion carried).
09:27:39 Would anybody else like to remove anything from the
09:27:42 agenda?
09:27:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just to bring to your attention we do
09:27:46 have members of the EPC staff here who are prepared to
09:27:49 make a presentation.
09:27:49 I believe it's number 11.
09:27:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to move number 11 up on our
09:27:58 agenda.
09:27:58 >> Second.
09:27:59 (Motion carried).
09:28:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Anything else?

09:28:02 Need a motion to approve the agenda.
09:28:03 >> So moved.
09:28:04 >> Second.
09:28:04 (Motion carried).
09:28:05 >>GWEN MILLER: We go to item 14.
09:28:09 Mark Huey.
09:28:15 >>MARK HUEY: Economic development administrator.
09:28:17 I was asked to appear to give a brief update on the
09:28:20 status of the courthouse and the environmental
09:28:23 circumstances at the courthouse.
09:28:27 What I can report to you in a very positive way,
09:28:32 presently the Hillsborough County school board is
09:28:34 considering the courthouse as a potential high school.
09:28:39 They are early in that evaluation.
09:28:41 They are probably about 60 days away from having their
09:28:46 due diligence process completed.
09:28:49 Their due diligence does include a very thorough
09:28:52 environmental assessment of the building.
09:28:54 And so that is again underway.
09:28:57 And we are looking forward to interacting with them on
09:28:59 that.
09:29:01 Again, probably about 60 days out from having some

09:29:04 meaningful dialogue with them about the potential for
09:29:06 that Ohio school opportunity to be a successful use
09:29:10 for the building.
09:29:12 Beyond that, we continue to monitor the environmental
09:29:16 condition of the building.
09:29:18 As you remember from the studies the city has done,
09:29:22 there are a variety of environmental issues associated
09:29:25 with the building, most of which are typical of a
09:29:29 building its size.
09:29:31 And we try to do everything we can to mitigate the
09:29:36 continued deterioration of the building.
09:29:39 Ultimately, though, the building, environmental
09:29:42 conditions won't be cured apart for the new use for
09:29:45 the building.
09:29:46 And at that time the full remedial action to cure the
09:29:51 environmental safety and health of the building will
09:29:53 be effectuated, and in the meantime, we will continue
09:29:57 to do all we can to deter the deterioration of the
09:30:01 building.
09:30:03 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Mr. Huey, this is good news.
09:30:06 I'm glad to see we are hopefully getting something
09:30:08 done with the federal courthouse.

09:30:10 The question I have is, is the federal government
09:30:15 going to help us at all with the mitigation of the
09:30:19 mold?
09:30:21 >>MARK HUEY: No.
09:30:22 >> Nothing?
09:30:23 So in other words we bought this building as is?
09:30:25 >>> Yes.
09:30:26 >> Didn't pay for it.
09:30:26 >>MARK HUEY: It was given to us.
09:30:29 >>MARY ALVAREZ: A dollar.
09:30:30 It will probably be $192 or something like that.
09:30:34 >>MARK HUEY: It was given to us and again we have full
09:30:37 knowledge, and we had briefings along the way about
09:30:41 its condition.
09:30:42 I'm not an environmental expert.
09:30:45 But we brought experts in to help us and we continue
09:30:47 to do that.
09:30:48 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Is there any grants or anything that
09:30:51 we could apply for to help with this?
09:30:54 Had you hue really, at this point, the remediation
09:30:57 will again occur as part of an ultimate use.
09:31:01 And there are many systems in the building.

09:31:04 Let me pick up, for example.
09:31:06 The plumbing system.
09:31:07 It's not clear exactly the quality of the plumbing
09:31:10 system and how that's affecting the water quality in
09:31:13 the building.
09:31:14 A final determination of that will require rather
09:31:19 invasive testing knocking down of the walls.
09:31:21 And really that doesn't want to happen until you know
09:31:24 what you are going to do with those walls after you
09:31:26 take them down.
09:31:27 And so, again, the major remedial action will occur,
09:31:31 and should occur, once you know what's going to go in
09:31:33 the building, and how -- what that means for the
09:31:37 future construction of the courthouse.
09:31:40 >> What about the parking issue?
09:31:42 >> MARK HUEY: I know the environmental side gets a lot
09:31:45 of attention.
09:31:46 But the major impediment to the redevelopment of the
09:31:48 courthouse is that it doesn't have any parking
09:31:50 associated with it.
09:31:51 And the building is in excess of 100 that you square
09:31:55 feet.

09:31:55 And you can imagine most uses for that size of a
09:31:58 building have significant parking requirements.
09:32:01 So, really, the reason why you haven't seen a lot of
09:32:05 private uses come forward to use the courthouse has
09:32:08 been primarily because of trying to solve the parking
09:32:12 problem.
09:32:13 Our hope is, as the city has been, that as private
09:32:16 development continues to occur in and around the
09:32:19 courthouse, and as you know in the last couple of
09:32:22 years, we have been fortunate to have a very
09:32:24 significant amount of private investment, that there
09:32:27 will be a private opportunity that comes forward that
09:32:29 will allow us as a city to partner, to help solve the
09:32:33 parking problems of the courthouse, and therefore
09:32:40 target it maybe to a more broad set of private uses.
09:32:45 >> One more question.
09:32:48 The school board is planning to use it as a high
09:32:51 school?
09:32:53 >>> That is their initial thought.
09:32:55 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Is that an adult high school?
09:32:59 >>> No.
09:33:00 It would be a high school for high school use.

09:33:02 >>: So what about facilities for playground or things
09:33:05 like that?
09:33:07 >>> Those are all things that they are studying as
09:33:09 part of their review.
09:33:10 And we have had some discussions, and they have some
09:33:15 very creative ideas.
09:33:17 For example, in partnership with the Blake campus.
09:33:19 But it would be premature really for me to talk about
09:33:22 that in much detail.
09:33:23 I think they are engaged in a great deal of work to
09:33:27 assess suitability and we'll know more once they have
09:33:32 a chance to complete that.
09:33:34 >> I have to admit I'm a little disappointed in this
09:33:36 report, Mr. Huey.
09:33:38 Ms. Alvarez, I could have given the entire report.
09:33:40 I met with the school board.
09:33:41 I went over there.
09:33:42 I looked at it.
09:33:43 I called the Wilson company to find out about parking.
09:33:45 Frankly, the one thing I wanted to hear from you today
09:33:48 was how we have gotten rid of some of the trash that's
09:33:51 left over from old parties that were held there many

09:33:54 years ago before we took over the building.
09:33:56 Have we got ten guys with big plastic bags over there
09:34:00 to just clean the place up?
09:34:01 I didn't hear you say that.
09:34:10 What Linda is reporting to you is there were some
09:34:12 events there that didn't clean up after themselves it
09:34:15 is way they should have.
09:34:18 Now it's our responsibility to clean that up.
09:34:21 So, yes, I personally toured the building with ray,
09:34:24 our facilities manager, and a plan is being put
09:34:28 together to do that.
09:34:30 One of the complicating matters, Ms. Saul-Sena, is
09:34:34 because of the environmental condition, their having
09:34:38 to assess exactly what the workers would need to do in
09:34:40 order to go into the building to clean it up.
09:34:42 But again our facilities department can better report
09:34:45 to you that as it unfolds that I could just report to
09:34:51 you that we share your determination to do that sort
09:34:55 of housekeeping clean-up of the building.
09:34:57 >> I'm so happy you share our determination but I'm
09:35:00 not the administration.
09:35:01 It's up to the administration to actually do this.

09:35:03 And so I'm eager to hear that you're doing it and that
09:35:07 you're marketing the building.
09:35:08 I have to tell you guys, the school board, who took
09:35:11 the initiative to look at this place and think would
09:35:14 this work for a high school?
09:35:15 We have not been promoting this to any users.
09:35:19 We haven't done anything with it since we had a
09:35:21 committee come up for uses and then nothing happened.
09:35:25 And Mr. Huey at the time said, well, we have so much
09:35:28 else going on downtown let's let this sit for awhile
09:35:31 and sure enough it's been sitting.
09:35:32 And I'm saying it's not getting any younger and
09:35:34 neither are we.
09:35:36 And there's the mold. The mold is getting worse under
09:35:39 our stewardship.
09:35:39 We need to do a clean up and we need to start actively
09:35:45 marketing this.
09:35:46 Maybe it will work for a high school.
09:35:47 Maybe it won't.
09:35:48 But we all recognize that for downtown to be the
09:35:51 vibrant place it needs to be, we need to get a use in
09:35:55 there.

09:35:56 It's sitting idle is not benefiting anyone.
09:35:59 So I would like to ask for a report in 60 days on what
09:36:02 we've done, not what we're planning to do, what's
09:36:05 actually happening with this property.
09:36:08 So my motion is 60 days --
09:36:11 >>MARK HUEY: If I can make a comment.
09:36:13 You suggested that we haven't been actively marketing
09:36:16 it.
09:36:16 And you and others that I have kept up to speed on the
09:36:20 courthouse are aware that we were actually involved in
09:36:24 a very aggressive marketing of the courthouse to the
09:36:29 college of art and design.
09:36:31 >> It didn't happen.
09:36:32 >>> Well, it just didn't happen in November of last
09:36:34 year.
09:36:35 That's when we received information from the college
09:36:37 that they were not going to consider a campus in
09:36:40 Florida.
09:36:40 So that opportunity was of such potential significant
09:36:48 can't cans downtown that we felt it was appropriate to
09:36:50 allow the courthouse to be available for that use
09:36:54 during the time where they were considering it.

09:36:56 So I just want you to know that there was a very
09:37:00 aggressive campaign associated with taking that and
09:37:04 other properties available in our downtown to create a
09:37:07 new campus in Florida, the college of art and design.
09:37:12 It was reported in the papers about a St. Petersburg
09:37:14 opportunity.
09:37:16 But there was a very aggressive efforts put together
09:37:19 by the city to make that available for the college.
09:37:23 So, again, I appreciate what you're saying.
09:37:25 The college has now in November told us that they
09:37:29 weren't in a posture of making a near-term decision
09:37:34 about a campus in Florida.
09:37:35 So it has put the administration in a different
09:37:37 position now to consider how we mate market the
09:37:40 building going forward.
09:37:42 I just wanted to make that comment.
09:37:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: To that end I called the president
09:37:46 of the Savannah college of art and design to encourage
09:37:49 her in that decision.
09:37:50 So I mean I'm really aware of it and I'm really eager
09:37:52 to get something going.
09:37:53 So my motion before us is a report in 60 days.

09:37:59 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Second.
09:38:00 (Motion carried).
09:38:03 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Mr. Huey, you said that you had talked
09:38:07 to the facilities manager about cleaning up the place.
09:38:10 >>> Yes.
09:38:11 >> And they had to look at the EPC standards and so
09:38:14 on.
09:38:15 Does it take EPC standards to put a broom to the stuff
09:38:19 and pick up the trash?
09:38:20 >>> Again, I'm not an expert in this.
09:38:23 I'm your economic --
09:38:24 >> I know.
09:38:25 >>> Not your facilities and environmental and risk
09:38:28 management department.
09:38:29 So if you would like a more thorough understanding of
09:38:33 that, I would encourage you to invite them to give a
09:38:36 report.
09:38:37 >> It's time to get a broom and start --
09:38:41 >>> I hear you.
09:38:45 Again the facilities department is not part of my
09:38:47 umbrella.
09:38:48 So we are working with them to effectuate the

09:38:50 clean-up.
09:38:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mark, you better watch out, they
09:38:54 are going to give you a broom.
09:39:00 But they are working hard to accomplish this.
09:39:02 And we appreciate the effort that they are making to
09:39:06 get it done.Saul-Sena
09:39:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Mr. Huey.
09:39:13 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I apologize for my tardiness.
09:39:16 I was unfortunately stuck in an elevator.
09:39:18 I couldn't get out for a couple of minutes.
09:39:20 I made it over.
09:39:21 You asked for a report back on the EPC permitting for
09:39:29 crematoriums.
09:39:33 Here to give you a brief explanation of the permitting
09:39:36 process for crematoriums.
09:39:47 >>> Jerry Campbell, staff to the environmental
09:39:49 commission.
09:39:50 And I want to thank you for having us here today.
09:39:52 With me is Deanna Lee and Stewart Willard as well as
09:39:58 our assistant counsel Rick Morati.
09:40:02 We have a brief presentation, seven PowerPoint slides
09:40:06 followed by some comments from our assistant council,

09:40:09 then we would tray to answer any questions you may
09:40:11 have.
09:40:13 PowerPoint is up.
09:40:14 Good.
09:40:16 We are here today to talk to you about crematories.
09:40:21 Just so we are all on the same page with this, I
09:40:23 wanted to make sure that we understand.
09:40:25 We talk about a crematory, we are talking about a
09:40:29 device used for the cremation of humor fetus remains,
09:40:33 and to operate one of these in Hillsborough County, we
09:40:36 have to obtain a state air pollution permit.
09:40:38 And you must operate that facility in such a manner
09:40:42 that it must have an after burner on the back end
09:40:45 which operates up to 1600 degrees Fahrenheit, in the
09:40:50 after chamber and to make sure that all the emission
09:40:54 that is come out are ox diced thoroughly.
09:40:56 There can be no emissions and certainly no odors.
09:41:02 There was a question at the last council meeting as we
09:41:05 watched it about Florida mortuary.
09:41:08 It is a facility that we do have under permit.
09:41:11 We first permitted in 1992 according to our records.
09:41:14 It may have been in operation prior to that.

09:41:16 They are located on north Nebraska.
09:41:18 And as you can see in the picture there, we have a
09:41:20 front view looking across the street at the facility
09:41:22 itself.
09:41:24 It's right on Nebraska Avenue.
09:41:25 The shot on the right is actually from the back end of
09:41:29 the facility.
09:41:30 And you can see the small rain cap on top of the
09:41:34 stack.
09:41:35 That's actually the discharge unit to the crematory
09:41:37 itself.
09:41:38 It's our understanding it was in operation when that
09:41:40 picture was taken.
09:41:42 We are responsible for the compliance of that facility
09:41:44 with the air pollution permit.
09:41:46 We last visited that facility in March of '05.
09:41:50 They do annual tests on that unit.
09:41:52 And it was last tested in March of '06.
09:41:55 We do indicate the facility is in compliance.
09:41:58 We have had a single complaint on that in the last
09:42:00 five years.
09:42:00 As I understand it we had a single complaint on that

09:42:03 since 1992.
09:42:08 We go to the next slide.
09:42:10 You see that we took some pictures around the facility
09:42:13 immediately to the north there is a strip mall there
09:42:15 with some local businesses in it across the street.
09:42:18 You can see that there's sidewalks, pedestrian
09:42:19 activity, directly behind the facility there are some
09:42:23 neighborhoods.
09:42:24 It's a very nice neighborhoods back in N there that
09:42:28 you can see here.
09:42:32 Just to give you a perspective, there are a number of
09:42:35 crematories operating in Hillsborough County.
09:42:37 We have seven which are currently either in operation,
09:42:40 under permit to do so, and you can see them scattered
09:42:43 about.
09:42:45 At least five of those are human crematories.
09:42:48 And some have been in operation for a number of years.
09:42:54 And we would be remiss not to inform you since the
09:42:57 last council meeting, we received a notification for
09:43:00 another crematory.
09:43:02 This one is being proposed to be located on 7th
09:43:04 Avenue in the 3800 block.

09:43:07 And you will see here on the left is a picture of the
09:43:09 building itself.
09:43:10 And on the right you see a picture of a signage that
09:43:13 we have had them post in the windows there.
09:43:17 This was received on February 15th.
09:43:23 The notification requirements, these crematories, they
09:43:25 are operating under a general state permit.
09:43:27 And this is a streamline permitting process the state
09:43:30 has put in place just recently in order to make these
09:43:34 facilities obtain their business operation in a more
09:43:39 expedient manner.
09:43:40 So they stream lind the permitting process. The state
09:43:43 rule requires, as you can see here, there are no
09:43:45 public notification requirements for it.
09:43:48 Under EPC's rules we are requiring them to post the
09:43:51 signs that you saw in the previous slides.
09:43:55 In this case because it is such an expedited schedule
09:43:58 they are allowed to operate 30 days after they notify
09:44:00 us.
09:44:01 Because of that expedited schedule, we actually send
09:44:03 registered letters to the registered neighborhood
09:44:05 organizations within a one-mile radius.

09:44:07 We get those addresses from the office of neighborhood
09:44:10 relations from both the city and the county.
09:44:12 We send those certified to the citizens.
09:44:15 We inform them this project is proposed for this
09:44:17 location.
09:44:18 And if they have any questions or concerns about that
09:44:20 and want to speak to somebody, they can contact our
09:44:23 office.
09:44:25 In this case, our rule also allows us to declare a
09:44:27 project to be of heightened public concern, because of
09:44:31 the last crematory project our Executive Director Gary
09:44:34 Garrity did that.
09:44:35 As such we are going the extra steps of notifying the
09:44:38 immediately adjacent property owners of this project,
09:44:41 and we are also going to host a meeting in the
09:44:44 community.
09:44:45 We are trying to set it for the evening at one of the
09:44:47 local meeting places there.
09:44:49 I think we are starting with the children's board to
09:44:51 see if we can get the meeting room there and contact
09:44:55 the citizens and try to make it something that's
09:44:57 convenient for them.

09:44:58 So having said all of that, what I would like to do
09:45:01 now is have our assistant counsel speak to you about.
09:45:07 Because I mentioned the general permitting program
09:45:08 that the state has put together does not allow the
09:45:11 public point of entry.
09:45:12 It's an entitlement program. The source owner
09:45:15 notifies the agency, within 30 days they believe they
09:45:18 are entitled to operate a crematory under state rules
09:45:21 at the said location. The only thing the agency can
09:45:23 do is review to see whether or not they are entitled
09:45:25 to operate.
09:45:26 There's a very low threshold for them to get that
09:45:28 entitlement.
09:45:29 So the agency will be looking at that.
09:45:32 But like I said there is a very low threshold. The
09:45:34 agency does not have an opportunity to entertain
09:45:37 public comment on that.
09:45:37 The agency also does not get the opportunity to add
09:45:40 additional precautions which it would typically do
09:45:44 particularly if there are public concerns.
09:45:46 Having said that if I can allow general counsel to
09:45:48 speak.

09:45:48 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a question for you.
09:45:51 >>FRANK REDDICK: Did I hear you right that you stated
09:45:55 that you received notification by another crematorium?
09:46:01 >>> Yes, sir.
09:46:02 >> Is that what you said?
09:46:04 >>> Yes, sir.
09:46:04 >> Is that that is in addition to the one 26th and
09:46:10 4th street or something like that?
09:46:11 >>> Yes, sir.
09:46:12 >> So there's two that plan to northbound that same
09:46:14 area?
09:46:14 >>> Yes, sir.
09:46:27 >> I don't know, it just seems that that raises a red
09:46:33 flag there with that many coming in the same
09:46:36 particular area.
09:46:37 Are these different companies?
09:46:39 >>> Yes, sir.
09:46:39 Different owners.
09:46:42 >> Okay.
09:46:42 >>CHAIRMAN: Do you usually allow two crematories to
09:46:48 come into the same area?
09:46:50 How many do you have two in the same area?

09:46:52 >>> If you go back to the slide you can see countywide
09:46:54 there are a number of them.
09:46:56 A facility can locate.
09:46:57 I mean, they tell us where they are going to locate.
09:46:59 The agency does not have the authority to site them
09:47:03 for their location.
09:47:04 >>GWEN MILLER: But there's in a rules in the City of
09:47:06 Tampa, where neighborhoods where this is going to be,
09:47:13 and you don't say why don't you find another location
09:47:18 that is not close to the one we just granted or
09:47:20 something?
09:47:21 >>> If a facility notifies us they want to locate at a
09:47:23 particular location, one of the first things we do is
09:47:26 send one of our permit engineers to look at the site,
09:47:29 to look for any sensitive land uses.
09:47:31 But the way the general permitting program is set up,
09:47:33 it's more or less an entitlement.
09:47:35 They tell us where they are going to locate and our
09:47:37 authority is to make sure they are going to comply
09:47:38 with the environmental rules.
09:47:41 And in that regard if there was a sensitive land use
09:47:44 around it, with the old permitting program we can talk

09:47:47 about additional restrictions or precautions we would
09:47:50 like them to take.
09:47:51 Under this general permitting program, we are
09:47:53 precluded from doing that.
09:48:00 >>SHAWN HARRISON: This may be a more appropriate
09:48:01 question for the counsel.
09:48:05 >>> Rick Morati, EPC legal department.
09:48:17 I want to expand on some points Jerry Campbell made.
09:48:19 The general permitting process is created by the state
09:48:22 legislature where they have identified a series of
09:48:25 regulated activities that they feel does not create an
09:48:29 adverse environmental impact.
09:48:31 So they want it to be streamlined to the state and to
09:48:35 the DEP permitting and rule making authority, and we
09:48:40 at the EPC are delegated from the DEP to delegate this
09:48:45 process, not for the local program but as the state
09:48:47 really permits.
09:48:48 So we take the rules the state gives us.
09:48:52 So they are meant to be streamlined.
09:48:55 So within 30 days a person can use the permit unless
09:48:58 we deny, and if we don't deny, we don't actually issue
09:49:04 the permit.

09:49:05 It's a you neck stream lind process.
09:49:07 We are not allowed to issue.
09:49:08 We are not allowed to add conditions on.
09:49:10 We are not allowed to get into siting and location
09:49:13 issues.
09:49:14 So our hands are very tied in this situation.
09:49:17 So those are the main points I wanted to bring up.
09:49:19 But when did find a very seldom used if ever used
09:49:23 provision in chapter 403 that allows the department,
09:49:28 its own cost and initiative, be notified at these
09:49:31 types of general permits.
09:49:33 So our director, Dr. Garrity, yesterday just notified
09:49:36 us that we would publish this one in the paper, which
09:49:39 means there will be created a 21-day window, which
09:49:43 almost never happened for a general permit, unless the
09:49:45 rule allows.
09:49:47 So we are going to create a 21-day window to allow any
09:49:51 concerned citizens or governments to review the
09:49:53 permit, maybe file for 120-administrative proceeding,
09:49:58 but it is a narrowly limited to the environmental
09:50:01 criteria in the general permit, you really have to
09:50:07 look at do they have the right, do they have the

09:50:11 proper staff, limited review?
09:50:13 But we are going to open this window from Dr. Garrity,
09:50:18 and that notice provides how you file for petition to
09:50:21 us within this 21 days.
09:50:27 >>> That actually addressed my questions.
09:50:28 But I do want to elaborate on a couple things.
09:50:31 So what we have here is a notice.
09:50:35 Basically, there is a list of standards that need to
09:50:39 be met, the applicant sends awe notice saying they are
09:50:41 going to meat those, and then assuming they do meet
09:50:43 those they have a right to operate within, I guess you
09:50:46 said, 30 days.
09:50:47 And that was mandated by the Florida legislature?
09:50:50 >>> Correct.
09:50:50 And that's until January 15th, I believe.
09:50:54 It was an actual full-blown construction permit where
09:50:56 we could condition it.
09:50:57 There could be challenges.
09:50:59 January 15th, the DEP changed the rule and created
09:51:03 a streamlined general permit for these projects.
09:51:07 >> And that streamlined notice general permit, that
09:51:11 was required by statute?

09:51:14 >>> I'm not sure if it's statute.
09:51:22 The rule the DEP derived from statutory authority
09:51:25 created in the rule the crematory general permit.
09:51:29 It's only going to be in the rules.
09:51:33 >> And is there a size threshold or do all crematories
09:51:36 meet this requirement or have an option for this
09:51:40 noticed general permit?
09:51:41 >>> I don't believe --
09:51:45 >>> No, I believe all crematories would meet the
09:51:48 criteria.
09:51:49 >> So you could have a huge industrial size facility
09:51:53 that would simply go through this general notice
09:51:56 permit?
09:51:57 >>> Well, put a single body in there, and then cremate
09:52:03 it, and then you cool it down and take out the ashes.
09:52:08 So it's a batch process.
09:52:12 >> And then in the requirements that you have
09:52:14 identified, there are specific for crematories, it's
09:52:18 not for any other type of air pollution source.
09:52:24 So if I was going to build some other kind of facility
09:52:27 I would have to get a regular construction permit from
09:52:29 you all?

09:52:31 >>> Yeah, there are -- in addition to crematories
09:52:34 there's a number of different types of facilities
09:52:36 which do not qualify for permits, a batch plan, small
09:52:41 printing operations, also, drycleaners.
09:52:46 So there's a number of types.
09:52:47 But, yeah, if you wanted to put in, say, a chemical
09:52:50 plant or something, no, you would have to come --
09:52:53 >> The purpose of my question is to get a sense of if
09:52:56 we have got a problem with this process, who do we
09:52:58 talk to?
09:52:59 It sounds like the first place we talk to is the
09:53:02 Florida department of environmental protection,
09:53:03 because they set up this highly expedited noticed
09:53:07 general permit process and they were not mandated to
09:53:09 do that by the Florida legislature.
09:53:15 That's what I'm hearing.
09:53:16 >>> I would agree with that.
09:53:17 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Sir, when the Temple Terrace crematory
09:53:28 was established back in 2006, in October, do you
09:53:33 recall that there was an outcry from the neighborhoods
09:53:37 in there?
09:53:39 >>> No, there wasn't.

09:53:40 >> Nothing was said?
09:53:42 >>> Nothing.
09:53:57 >> It's on 56th.
09:53:59 And there's neighborhoods all over there.
09:54:04 Were they told?
09:54:07 Nobody went to their City Council or anything that you
09:54:09 know of?
09:54:11 >>> Not that we know of.
09:54:13 The facility posted the signage, the same signage that
09:54:15 you saw on the next to last slide on the property.
09:54:18 It has to be in a place where the public is going to
09:54:20 be able to see it.
09:54:22 We also sent letters to the neighborhood organizations
09:54:24 within a one-mile radius and didn't hear from anybody.
09:54:27 >> Okay.
09:54:27 Thank you.
09:54:29 >> For clarification.
09:54:30 You stated you are going to advertise this for 21
09:54:32 days.
09:54:33 Now if the neighborhoods come out and complain and say
09:54:35 they don't want it, what's going to happen?
09:54:42 >> If we keep on the schedule, in the papers this

09:54:47 coming Tuesday so the 21 day clock starts running on
09:54:51 Tuesday so anyone who has a substantial interest can
09:54:54 file a petition for administrative hearing, as long as
09:54:56 they can show standing and as long as they can show
09:54:58 environmental criteria were not met at the facility
09:55:01 then they can have a hearing which is cellular to a
09:55:03 civil trial, but in state an administrative law judge.
09:55:13 >> If the neighborhoods come up --
09:55:15 >>> If we the facility has shown they are going to
09:55:18 meet all the criteria we can't deny it.
09:55:21 >> So why do you advertise it?
09:55:23 >>> In case anyone can bring anything that we are not
09:55:25 familiar with, we want to give all the citizens an
09:55:27 opportunity to get a closer look.
09:55:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to thank you very
09:55:32 much.
09:55:33 This has been very important.
09:55:34 I would like to hear from our attorney sitting in the
09:55:35 front row, Mr. Smith.
09:55:37 My question is, not one at this point but two
09:55:41 crematories are adjacent to our not local but national
09:55:47 landmark district.

09:55:48 And this strikes me as particular concern.
09:55:52 It's not addressed under this general permitting
09:55:54 program.
09:55:55 So given the great concern by the community and by the
09:55:59 City of Tampa, what can we do as a city to
09:56:05 aggressively protect our national landmark district
09:56:08 from the jays ANSI of these cream a towers?
09:56:12 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
09:56:14 As a former real estate land use attorney, I will warn
09:56:16 you we are getting a little bit afield in terms of my
09:56:19 expertise but I have had some exposure to these
09:56:22 processes and administrative procedures.
09:56:24 The problem you have is this is a recall governed
09:56:28 process.
09:56:29 They are not looking at the factors that you are
09:56:33 articulating as relevant or important to how you want
09:56:35 your city to look and how you want it to be compatible
09:56:38 with the different uses.
09:56:40 That's not their role and that's not their function.
09:56:43 They will look solely at environmental issues.
09:56:47 The question would be whether we have the factual
09:56:50 basis for saying that something like a crematory

09:56:55 doesn't belong in the industrial areas.
09:56:59 I would not want -- what I am hearing is if there is
09:57:05 in fact no ambient effect I would be a little dubious
09:57:10 about our ability to make that case so the real
09:57:12 question goes to your predicate.
09:57:14 If they are in an industrial area, and if they are not
09:57:16 in the historical district, do they in fact have an
09:57:20 adverse effect on the area?
09:57:24 I understand the perception that that creates.
09:57:28 No one probably wants to live near something where
09:57:30 they understand what's going on inside.
09:57:32 But if there are no emissions, and no ambient effects,
09:57:36 I think our ability to reach it may be limited.
09:57:40 Now, you know, I guess we could look at our code to
09:57:44 see if there are any adjustments.
09:57:50 That would be appropriate.
09:57:51 I would be a little concerned when we get outside the
09:57:53 district what our ability is to enforce district
09:57:56 requirements.
09:57:56 We have always had that problem.
09:57:58 What about across the street?
09:58:01 I hope that's responsive.

09:58:03 It's not very definitive.
09:58:05 But I think we really would have to look at this
09:58:06 carefully if we were to attempt to craft a solution to
09:58:10 this problem.
09:58:15 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Thank you, David.
09:58:18 I tried a bunch of these administrative challenges to
09:58:22 environmental permits as pat part of what we do.
09:58:25 And that's why I was trying to get some background on
09:58:27 what the process is, and what Mr. Morati has explained
09:58:34 is really creating a window for somebody to file a
09:58:37 petition.
09:58:38 I not giving them any more authority to do anything
09:58:40 different than what the statute requires.
09:58:43 And it looks like really the department of
09:58:46 environmental protection has really tied their hands.
09:58:50 I think it's an important issue.
09:58:51 I think the issues that we are concerned about are
09:58:53 more appropriately addressed in our land use
09:58:59 requirements.
09:59:00 And way think we discussed previously is creating a
09:59:02 special use permit for these uses is more appropriate
09:59:06 than necessarily going after this permitting.

09:59:10 It's certainly worth log at and I think it's great
09:59:12 that the EPC is creating this public opportunity.
09:59:15 The state obviously doesn't think it's important
09:59:17 enough to have a public participation process since
09:59:20 they have eliminated that.
09:59:21 So I think it's great the EPC is doing that.
09:59:24 But I don't think we should hold out a lot of hope
09:59:27 that we are going to get a lot of satisfaction from
09:59:30 that process, since it appears, and actually had my
09:59:34 staff pull the requirements that they have got to
09:59:35 meet.
09:59:36 And it's pretty streamlined.
09:59:38 And I don't -- it's kind of stacked against us.
09:59:41 That's kind of what I'm hearing that this is.
09:59:43 This is set up.
09:59:51 I think we need to take a hard look at how they are
09:59:56 addressed and the fact that there is no total size
10:00:03 limitation on these noticed general permits is
10:00:05 troubling to me, because typically when you do air
10:00:08 permitting, you look at all the facilities on a site
10:00:11 and it looks lake they could put 15 or 20 or 30 of
10:00:14 these all in one place, and have a real impact.

10:00:19 So I think we need to take a real hard look at this
10:00:22 and do it as quickly as possible.
10:00:24 And perhaps if the council would like, we can have the
10:00:28 city attorney's office look at whether or not it's
10:00:30 appropriate to file a petition.
10:00:32 But that is a full-blown legal process.
10:00:34 It's very cellular to filing a lawsuit in circuit
10:00:37 court.
10:00:38 And it's a major undertaking and we need to be sure
10:00:40 that we knew what we were pursuing when we decided to
10:00:45 do that.
10:00:47 >>SHAWN HARRISON: The only thing that -- Mr. Fletch
10:00:50 every obviously is an expert in the area.
10:00:52 And I think what we are hearing from him is our hands
10:00:56 are probably pretty tied.
10:00:59 We have heard that issue since it first came up.
10:01:01 And David, maybe the approach that we should take will
10:01:04 be as Ms. Saul-Sena suggested, because this is a
10:01:08 unique site, right next to a national historic
10:01:11 district, with tourism, and retail, and it's not your
10:01:17 typical industrial zone.
10:01:19 It's right next to something that's quite the contrary

10:01:22 to your typical industrial zone.
10:01:24 So does that give us any unique ability to say, like
10:01:28 in a variance situation, you know, this particular
10:01:31 piece of property is so unique, you can't apply the
10:01:34 regular rules?
10:01:36 That's the way I would go.
10:01:37 Because elsewhere, I don't think we have a case that
10:01:41 we can make.
10:01:44 As you said, it not discharging anything.
10:01:46 And that's the EPC's job to determine whether it's
10:01:49 safe or not.
10:01:51 It's properly zoned.
10:01:52 What we can do in the future -- and we can start this
10:01:55 immediately -- is to utilize the S-2 or S-1 process
10:02:00 and make sure when don't have these clustered, because
10:02:03 that's really what could drive that area down, is you
10:02:07 have these things, a bunch of them altogether right
10:02:09 there, becomes known as crematory row, and we
10:02:12 certainly don't want that right next to our national
10:02:15 historic area.
10:02:18 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
10:02:19 A couple of things that might be relevant to your

10:02:21 consideration.
10:02:23 I believe April 12th, staffer is coming back with
10:02:25 some information on crematories and their impacts on
10:02:29 the areas.
10:02:30 Another thing to consider, which I don't believe we
10:02:33 have enacted, is perhaps transition areas around our
10:02:38 historic districts.
10:02:39 Since we have to draw the line somewhere, it may still
10:02:43 make sense, however, for the next distance is an
10:02:47 issue, but the next distance, the other uses that are
10:02:50 not incompatible or transitional uses only would be
10:02:54 encouraged.
10:02:57 Now the problem you are going to have on this
10:02:58 particular instance is when in the middle of an IH
10:03:01 district, it's six blocks away or in the second one,
10:03:04 12 blocks away, that may be just too far to reach.
10:03:08 Be that as it may, I think we need to hear from staff
10:03:10 on April 12, provide you the additional information,
10:03:13 and then we can talk about some things this council
10:03:17 may want to adopt to try to address this issue.
10:03:21 >> If I could follow up.
10:03:22 I don't know if Ms. Coyle is here.

10:03:24 But as it stands now the code has not changed and I
10:03:27 believe crematory is still appropriate in areas
10:03:29 outside of industrial heavy, in addition to industrial
10:03:32 heavy, so I believe council did make a motion with
10:03:36 regard to that.
10:03:37 Now it's going to be coming back to council?
10:03:39 >>CATHERINE COYLE: April 12th we'll be bringing
10:03:41 back the code research on surrounding municipalities
10:03:44 and county governments to show you how we compare to
10:03:47 other areas with special uses and straight permitted
10:03:50 uses.
10:03:50 >> Just to refresh council's recollection, where
10:03:57 presently can crematories be sited?
10:04:00 >>> In the commercial general and straight permitted
10:04:03 use in CI, IG, IH.
10:04:06 I want you to remember, though, Ms. Saul-Sena, you
10:04:09 stated that a crematory would be an adverse use
10:04:14 butting up right against that boundary of a historic
10:04:16 district.
10:04:17 And in that sentence alone, that might be considered,
10:04:21 but remember, right across that line, it's all IH.
10:04:24 You had scrap yards.

10:04:26 You had a very intense usage.
10:04:29 There were basically no landscaping whatsoever.
10:04:32 It was all gray brownfield.
10:04:36 So you have to consider potentially what Mr. Smith
10:04:39 said as well as creating some kind of transition will
10:04:41 a boundary.
10:04:42 But these something we are going to have to address
10:04:44 potentially in the comp plan update and then in the
10:04:47 zoning change because you are looking at basically
10:04:49 down-zoning and down planning.
10:04:52 Those heavy industrial areas right next to Ybor.
10:04:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The funeral parlor industry which
10:05:03 crematories would be part of, those industries are
10:05:06 very strong and they go to Tallahassee and they craft
10:05:08 these laws to basically do exactly what we are seeing,
10:05:12 to eliminate local government, to eliminate the local
10:05:15 process.
10:05:16 And that's what happened in Tallahassee.
10:05:18 And shame on Tallahassee for allowing that to happen.
10:05:23 I think in the long-term that we should work with the
10:05:26 Florida League of Cities to look at that.
10:05:31 These things should not be allowed to just totally

10:05:33 trump local government and skip over the local
10:05:35 process.
10:05:39 We have folks who have been here for the last month or
10:05:41 two, about three different crematories, and basically
10:05:43 they are hitting their heads against the wall, because
10:05:45 they are being told, well, you know, there is in a
10:05:49 process effectively, unless you want to hire a lawyer
10:05:53 and take on this big industry.
10:05:55 And that's not fair.
10:05:56 So I think that we have some short-term issues that we
10:06:01 can deal with in our own zoning code and I think
10:06:03 that's appropriate.
10:06:04 But I think in the bigger picture we should also work
10:06:07 together with the administration and with the Florida
10:06:09 League of Cities to try to create some meaningful
10:06:12 local input in that Tallahassee legislative process.
10:06:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Ms. Coyle, what you are doing on
10:06:18 April 12th sounds great.
10:06:20 I would like to take it a step further.
10:06:22 I would like you to come back to us not only with a
10:06:25 general recommendation.
10:06:26 I would like you to come back to us and working with

10:06:29 legal with language that's crafted, very specifically,
10:06:32 to only allow crematories in heavy industrial zoning.
10:06:36 Because, frankly, I'm disappointed that it's all the
10:06:38 way to April 12th because ware looking at these
10:06:41 other issues now.
10:06:42 So I would like to at least, on that date, in addition
10:06:45 to getting the information from you, be able to
10:06:48 actually, you know, have something drafted that
10:06:52 council would be able to take action on.
10:06:54 And I know it has to go to the Planning Commission and
10:06:56 then come back to us, and everything takes forever.
10:06:59 But at least by April 12th I would like to have
10:07:01 specific language that we can go with.
10:07:04 And I don't think that's so complicated.
10:07:06 We are talking about a special use 2 and IH areas.
10:07:10 That's what I would like to see.
10:07:12 Special use 2 and IH?
10:07:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: In IH.
10:07:17 Isn't that what we were moving towards?
10:07:19 >> I wasn't going to be recommending IH 2 in the --
10:07:23 >> Oh, then a special use 2 other than in IH?
10:07:28 >>> From what has been researched so far it's an S-2

10:07:31 and CG and permitted in CI.
10:07:33 Many other municipalities don't allow permitted use in
10:07:36 a commercial intensive district, require at least an
10:07:40 S-1, in set criteria that they have to meet.
10:07:43 And in those criteria they generally have to set a
10:07:46 distance separation, not from other crematoriums but
10:07:49 from other residential areas of 100, 200, 500 feet.
10:07:53 It depends on the area.
10:07:54 >> If it would expedite this process, and we are all
10:07:59 eager to see it move as quickly as possible, if you
10:08:02 think it would be helpful to perhaps a week or two
10:08:04 before you are coming back to council, to have a
10:08:06 special workshop, special discussion meeting on this
10:08:09 for clarification from the public and council members,
10:08:12 that when you come back on April 12th it can be
10:08:14 something that we can actually take action on.
10:08:17 >> What I had planned on coming back on April 12th
10:08:19 was maybe not the actual ordinance form but I was
10:08:22 going to recommend the change language to chapter 27.
10:08:25 So I think worry on the same line.
10:08:29 We need to understand fully what you want.
10:08:32 But it's going to be a pretty hard recommendation of

10:08:34 what should be changed.
10:08:35 >> Well, as close as we can get to something that we
10:08:39 can act on, that's write want to be.
10:08:42 I preferring to some of in ordinance and perhaps a
10:08:45 special discussion meeting to give you the clarity so
10:08:48 you can come back with something that's very specific.
10:08:55 We are concerned, the public is concerned, and I'm
10:08:56 sorry it didn't happen yesterday but needs to happen
10:09:01 as quickly as possible.
10:09:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I want a clarification, council
10:09:04 member Saul-Sena.
10:09:05 You expressed your concern but that does not have the
10:09:07 weight of a motion of council, a direction to staff.
10:09:09 And I don't know --
10:09:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay.
10:09:12 I can make a motion.
10:09:15 I appreciate that, Mr. Shelby.
10:09:16 My motion would be that on April 4th, that there's
10:09:24 a special discussion meeting at 9 a.m.
10:09:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: How about the 11th?
10:09:36 That doesn't give you much time.
10:09:39 How about Monday of that week?

10:09:41 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The 9th?
10:09:42 >> Yes then on Monday the 9th there be a special
10:09:47 discussion meeting on crematoriums where you bring all
10:09:50 the information you think of recommending at that
10:09:54 point in the discussion.
10:09:55 Then when you come back to council on the 12th you
10:09:57 have something -- at least he would don't have to wait
10:10:03 another couple of weeks for the language to come back.
10:10:06 >>> That would be fine.
10:10:11 >> I would love for you to do it before I leave but if
10:10:13 she needs the time to do it, I would rather have it
10:10:16 done early than have it rushed.
10:10:22 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Hire you as a consultant.
10:10:25 [ Laughter ]
10:10:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to amend my motion to
10:10:28 say the 28th, which is a Wednesday at noon that we
10:10:34 have a special discussion meeting on what other
10:10:42 municipalities have come up with crematories.
10:10:46 >>> Could you not do it on the lunch hour?
10:10:48 It's difficult orphan both days to actually eat lunch.
10:10:57 >> I'll bay lunch.
10:10:59 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Are you allowed to do that?

10:11:01 That's great.
10:11:01 Thank you.
10:11:04 >> Council will provide the lunch at noon on the
10:11:05 28th.
10:11:06 Thank you.
10:11:06 Is there a second?
10:11:08 >>> Second.
10:11:09 >> We have a motion and second.
10:11:10 (Motion carried).
10:11:14 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Ms. Coyle, with all of this rhetoric
10:11:19 that we have been talking about, it's not going to
10:11:21 help the situation that wave in front of us now,
10:11:24 right?
10:11:24 >>> Correct.
10:11:25 >> Nothing.
10:11:26 Then the other question I have is, these crematories
10:11:33 know exactly where the industrial heavy, the IG, the
10:11:35 IH, they know where they are.
10:11:39 Is that what you're planning to do?
10:11:41 You're planning to change the code where we have the
10:11:46 IH is now?
10:11:50 >>> I'm not sure I understand.

10:11:51 >> Well, if we have the industrial zonings already,
10:11:54 whatever, and the crematories want to come in and they
10:11:58 want to put in one --
10:12:02 >>> They can call ahead and ask.
10:12:05 >> So the code changes that you're proposing is to
10:12:08 change the industrial zoning then?
10:12:15 >>> I will not be preparing the industrial zoning.
10:12:21 >> So what are we doing?
10:12:22 >>> You are asking me to look at whether or not we can
10:12:24 put in a special use requirement process for different
10:12:27 districts for specific use of crematorium.
10:12:30 I can tell you, I will not be recommending to make it
10:12:33 a special use in the IH district.
10:12:36 There are far more noxious uses that are permitted in
10:12:38 the IH district, and I do not feel comfortable with
10:12:41 recommending singling out a use that is nowhere near
10:12:44 the intensity of the on the uses that are allowed.
10:12:46 That is the purpose of the IH district.
10:12:48 To allow heavy use.
10:12:50 >> This is my point.
10:12:51 My point is they know that they can go into the IH
10:12:56 zonings, right?

10:12:57 >>> Correct.
10:12:57 >> So if you are doing the special uses, you are not
10:13:01 putting the special use on those IH zonings?
10:13:06 >>> I won't be recommending that, no.
10:13:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, maybe the solution is, not
10:13:13 necessarily preclude them, or eliminate them from the
10:13:15 IH.
10:13:16 I agree, if there's anyplace they should be, it would
10:13:19 be the IH.
10:13:19 But maybe if they are within the IH but within a
10:13:22 certain distance from a residential, then it might
10:13:27 kick in, you know, kick in some type of review
10:13:30 process.
10:13:30 In other words, create a circle around their proposed
10:13:33 location, regardless of whether or not they are in the
10:13:35 IH or not.
10:13:37 And then if they happen to be within, you know, the
10:13:39 residential -- in this case, yes, it's in an
10:13:42 industrial zone but it's pretty close to the
10:13:44 residential.
10:13:44 So in that case it might kick in and then you would
10:13:47 have a special process.

10:13:48 I think that seems like a reasonable --
10:13:51 >>> We can certainly look to see how that would fit
10:13:53 into the way the code is formatted.
10:13:55 I can do that.
10:13:55 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Did you have a report on the first
10:14:01 part of the motion that we made, to provide a report
10:14:06 regarding whether the property values were affected?
10:14:11 >>> I have no report on property values being
10:14:13 affected.
10:14:14 >> Is there anybody that's going to have one today?
10:14:16 Or you just forgot that part of it?
10:14:18 >>> I'm certainly not an expert on property values.
10:14:21 >> Somebody was supposed to get that.
10:14:22 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
10:14:26 The extent I participated in the administrative
10:14:27 discussions on that issue, what you really need in
10:14:29 order to determine on a legitimate basis the property
10:14:34 values is someone skilled in that area, i.e., an
10:14:41 prayer, and they worked on a matched pair analysis.
10:14:44 They match up properties that are essentially the
10:14:45 same, those around crematorium, there's not.
10:14:49 And in order to know the impact of crematorium rather

10:14:52 than other variables that may be at I shall knew an
10:14:54 industrial area.
10:14:55 That's not an easy analysis to do.
10:14:57 I can tell you the methodology has been challenged
10:14:59 several times in court.
10:15:01 But you need an appraiser to provide you that
10:15:03 information.
10:15:04 I'm not even sure how reliable it would be.
10:15:06 >> I was just trying to find out whether the property
10:15:11 values were going up or down in these areas that had
10:15:15 mortuaries around it.
10:15:17 That's all I wanted.
10:15:19 >>> Well, what the problem is for analytical purposes,
10:15:24 if you have some other co-variant then you don't know
10:15:27 the crematory is causing the properties to go down.
10:15:32 It could be other uses that our code -- well, I am
10:15:38 probably giving you an analytical from the judiciary
10:15:42 but I think when do need to make our decisions based
10:15:45 on evidence rather than pre-supposition.
10:15:48 >> And I understand that, Mr. Smith.
10:15:49 But the question, there was a statement made that the
10:15:52 property values were going down because it was a

10:15:54 mortuary around there.
10:15:55 That's way wanted to know.
10:15:58 Is that the truth or not?
10:16:00 That's what I was looking for.
10:16:01 >>> I couldn't tell you.
10:16:03 >> I'm sure you couldn't.
10:16:04 >>> What I am trying to tell you, I don't know an
10:16:07 appraiser could tell you that very definitively.
10:16:10 >> It would probably have to come from the property
10:16:12 appraiser's office, analyzing this, before the
10:16:16 mortuary went there, and then after.
10:16:18 >>> If you could get that kind of mass analysis that's
10:16:21 your best analytical paradigm.
10:16:25 >> How do I do that?
10:16:30 >>> It would cost some money, I'm afraid.
10:16:34 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Mr. Smith, if the council -- and
10:16:40 this is published on the noticed general permit.
10:16:42 If the council is interested in suggesting that the
10:16:48 city file a petition, how would that process work?
10:16:52 Would your office evaluate it and come back to us?
10:16:55 Or is that a decision that the administration would
10:16:57 make individually?

10:16:59 >>> Literally under the charter that's a determination
10:17:02 I need to make.
10:17:03 I would certainly listen to any input council has or
10:17:06 any input the administration has.
10:17:09 If we have a legitimate case, one that we think we
10:17:12 could win based upon the factors you look at, then
10:17:16 that might be right for intervention.
10:17:22 >> I think it would be appropriate to evaluate it once
10:17:24 the notice comes out.
10:17:26 As I stated earlier, I am not terribly optimistic.
10:17:30 But in looking at the rules and looking at what's
10:17:33 required under the noticed general permit, to be
10:17:37 filed, it might be worthwhile taking a look with
10:17:41 appropriate staff to figure out whether or not there
10:17:42 is any opportunities after you have had -- after you
10:17:47 look at the application as filed.
10:17:54 I think it might be worth spending a little time on.
10:17:57 >>> If council is making a motion to do that --
10:18:01 >> I would make such a motion.
10:18:02 >> Second.
10:18:02 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
10:18:03 (Motion carried).

10:18:04 Thank you, Mr. Smith.
10:18:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Clerk, do you have that motion?
10:18:09 Thank you.
10:18:09 >>GWEN MILLER: We now go to item number 3.
10:18:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Madam Chairman.
10:18:13 I know that we have some audience members who are here
10:18:15 specifically on this issue.
10:18:16 And rather than have them wait through all the rest of
10:18:18 the conversation, I would like to move to allow the
10:18:24 public to weigh in on the crematory.
10:18:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
10:18:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone here that wants to
10:18:33 speak on item number 11?
10:18:41 >>> I wanted to address --
10:18:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Reddick can go out and get them.
10:18:46 >>> Thank you.
10:18:47 Thanks, council.
10:18:48 I appreciate it very much.
10:19:04 Fran Costentino, president of the east Ybor historic
10:19:09 association.
10:19:09 And we have been trying to voice our opinions
10:19:12 regarding the deregulations of the state has made it

10:19:15 so simple for anybody to look for an industrial heavy
10:19:19 use and apply for a crematorium.
10:19:23 Allowing us a 21-day notice where we can get out and
10:19:27 voice our opinion, seems like they are just trying to
10:19:30 pacify us and patronize us because they are saying we
10:19:32 are going to give you 21 days but you are not going to
10:19:35 have any effect unless the outcome is going to be --
10:19:40 they have lowered the flesh hold.
10:19:42 They can apply for just a special use permit, which
10:19:44 doesn't seem fair.
10:19:45 I don't know what we can do locally to help that.
10:19:49 And I appreciate anything council can do.
10:19:52 On the agenda, not only said that they were going to
10:19:56 address the property values, which Mr. Smith already
10:19:59 addressed, but it also said that the EPC and EPA
10:20:02 regarding the health hazards and emissions.
10:20:08 I would like to see if they have any statistics.
10:20:10 I went to one meeting and one of the girls that had a
10:20:13 report is not in town.
10:20:14 But one of the meetings said that they admittedly knew
10:20:18 of ash and pollution that was put into the air.
10:20:22 And I don't know how significant it was.

10:20:25 And it sounds pretty gross to talk about it.
10:20:27 But the fillings from also put a high amount of
10:20:32 Mercury in the air.
10:20:33 And I think staff was not purposely trying to mislead
10:20:36 us but like at the other City Council where Linda
10:20:39 Saul-Sena asked whether residences were nearby the
10:20:43 answer from staff was no.
10:20:45 What she referred to today as industrial and all kind
10:20:49 of things that weren't complementary to the historic
10:20:51 neighborhood are all to the east.
10:20:53 To the north and to the west, within a two-block area,
10:20:58 all residential houses.
10:20:59 So you need to know that.
10:21:02 There are residential houses.
10:21:03 So maybe the solution is that we try and widen the
10:21:07 boundary of how far they can be away from that.
10:21:11 I wrote in an e-mail and I guess I was aggravated last
10:21:14 night so I was just venting on the e-mail that I sent
10:21:17 out but I sent to the mayor, county commission, City
10:21:19 Council, and Ybor City Chamber of Commerce and Ybor
10:21:23 City Development Corporation now change its marketing
10:21:25 strategy from being a national historic landmark

10:21:28 district and cigar capital of the world to having the
10:21:31 largest crematory concentration in any one given area.
10:21:34 And Mary stepped out for a minute but what I wanted to
10:21:39 remind her was that it was the residents of Seminole
10:21:41 Heights that came out in droves, not Temple Terrace.
10:21:44 There were like 75 people that showed up here at
10:21:47 council.
10:21:47 And they said it had no impact but all of a sudden
10:21:51 they withdrew their application because of Christian
10:21:55 reasons.
10:21:56 Whatever.
10:21:56 We are just here to beg your help.
10:21:59 We have worked so hard since 1999 to extend our
10:22:01 boundaries, to promote residential, to promote our
10:22:04 historic district, and I'm sure there's industrial
10:22:07 uses on Davis Island near the airport.
10:22:09 I'm sure there's a lot more industrial uses at
10:22:11 Channelside.
10:22:12 But anybody in their common sense would know they are
10:22:14 not going to a apply there because of the opposition.
10:22:17 And there was an article about one of our councilmen
10:22:20 too said if this was in his area he would be hollering

10:22:24 and screaming and I think it's really, really unfair
10:22:26 that they feel like this is what Ybor deserves.
10:22:29 And I am just asking you for any help that you can
10:22:32 give us.
10:22:32 There's one that got automatically approved at 1401
10:22:35 north 26th street and now this one on 7th
10:22:38 Avenue.
10:22:38 (Bell sounds).
10:22:39 But I would like to hear from the EPC as far as the
10:22:42 emissions report.
10:22:42 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Well, the fact of the matter is that
10:22:46 there are certain parts of the City of Tampa that have
10:22:49 IH zoning.
10:22:51 And this is an appropriate use in IH zoning and Ms.
10:22:54 Coyle just was at that podium and said that she would
10:22:57 not recommend that we change the S-2 process from IH
10:23:03 zoning, and that the point that we've all been talking
10:23:07 about sitting up here is, he would want to address
10:23:10 this problem within the legal boundaries and framework
10:23:13 that we can address the problem.
10:23:15 It does no one any good for us to sit up here and talk
10:23:19 about this issue, and there's nothing we can do about

10:23:22 it.
10:23:22 What we need to do is figure out a way that we can
10:23:25 address that and that's the conversation that we have
10:23:26 been having with David Smith this morning.
10:23:28 So it is properly zoned.
10:23:32 And no one likes the fact that these are allowed in
10:23:36 zoning, that they are properly zoned.
10:23:37 And I do take offense to that last statement.
10:23:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Two things.
10:23:44 I would like to change the special discussion meeting
10:23:46 to March 30th, Friday at unanimous, rather than
10:23:49 the 28th.
10:23:53 I would like to change my motion to change the date.
10:23:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
10:23:57 (Motion carried).
10:24:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Secondly --
10:24:02 >>GWEN MILLER: Make a new motion.
10:24:04 >> In a, my motion is to change the date to the from
10:24:06 the 30th -- from the 28th to the 30th.
10:24:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Joint motion.
10:24:12 >> A joint motion.
10:24:12 And my second thought, Madam Chairman, is I think that

10:24:20 we need to address this locally.
10:24:21 We also need to address state law.
10:24:23 And the Ybor City, God bless it, is a very organized,
10:24:26 articulate neighborhood.
10:24:27 It's got chambers of commerce.
10:24:30 It's got neighborhood organizations.
10:24:31 I would like to encourage the chairman of City Council
10:24:33 to write a letter.
10:24:35 I move that the chairman of City Council writes a
10:24:37 letter to the state legislators and to the governor on
10:24:41 the point that Ybor City, which I know the governor
10:24:44 knows about, and everybody knows about Ybor City,
10:24:46 because it's Ybor City day in Tallahassee.
10:24:51 Because of their changing of the rules that Ybor City
10:24:52 is looking at not one but two crematories within a
10:24:55 mile of the heart of the cigar capital of the world.
10:24:59 And I think that the letter -- I can't tell the mayor
10:25:01 what to do, but I encourage her to write one too but I
10:25:06 certainly move that the chairman of council to the
10:25:11 governor and legislators and all the organizations in
10:25:15 Ybor which have very politically active people, which
10:25:17 have lots of energy, that they are made aware of this

10:25:20 issue and that they use their political up in
10:25:23 Tallahassee.
10:25:23 Things are just going to get going up there.
10:25:26 And we need for this to be recognized as a very
10:25:29 serious concern here in Tampa.
10:25:38 >> Why don't you include the DEP?
10:25:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Well, the DEP is administrative and
10:25:44 --
10:25:44 >> I think they should have a copy of this letter.
10:25:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Absolutely.
10:25:48 Absolutely.
10:25:50 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Let me ask for a clarification what
10:25:53 you want the letter to contain.
10:25:56 You understand the rule change has had an impact on
10:25:58 the national historic district?
10:26:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It has undercut local government's
10:26:04 ability to protect our national historic district.
10:26:09 And I think that's very significant.
10:26:11 And I think that's something that will get their
10:26:13 attention.
10:26:14 And Mr. Shelby, you are such a great writer that you
10:26:18 get to be the person who drafts this letter.

10:26:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If the chair wishes.
10:26:25 It will be for the chair's consideration.
10:26:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: make it part of the motion.
10:26:34 >>FRANK REDDICK: I just had a question.
10:26:46 Of Mr. Cameron.
10:26:47 What is the possibility that you are going to have
10:26:52 cellular to what you are doing, to have this
10:26:57 inspection machine out there monitoring the air
10:27:01 emission in that neighborhood?
10:27:03 What is the possibility of doing cellular to what you
10:27:06 are doing?
10:27:13 What is the mobile unit you have out there?
10:27:15 >>> A special machine, we have two of them.
10:27:18 We have one that was attached to a vehicle that would
10:27:20 drive around and actually take samples.
10:27:23 After they take samples from street corner to street
10:27:26 corner.
10:27:26 We also had a stationery site to be located at a local
10:27:31 church.
10:27:31 When we meet with citizens we'll entertain any input
10:27:34 from citizens, take a look at what kind of emissions
10:27:36 we might be able to monitor from the crematory and

10:27:39 certainly consider that.
10:27:40 >> So to the citizens make sure you discuss about the
10:27:43 mobile inspection report unit.
10:27:48 Two, with the public notice, what newspapers will be
10:27:50 publish this in?
10:27:52 >> We are targeting the Tampa Tribune and the Florida
10:27:54 sentinel, sir.
10:27:56 >> What about La Gaceta?
10:27:58 >>FRANK REDDICK: Probably La Gaceta should be included
10:28:02 for that.
10:28:08 >> The timing is that we have to have it published
10:28:12 one, two, or three papers on the exact same date so
10:28:15 the 21 days -- I'm not sure if La Gaceta runs Tuesday.
10:28:23 >> They just run on Fridays.
10:28:24 >>MARY ALVAREZ: It comes out on Friday.
10:28:33 >>GWEN MILLER: Nobody seconded it.
10:28:34 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I second it.
10:28:36 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:28:38 (Motion Carried).
10:28:39 >>> I would like to speak briefly on a matter.
10:28:41 My name is Lyla Drem.
10:28:46 I was here last week.

10:28:47 I am going to briefly reiterate myself.
10:28:49 The first crematory is .9 miles from my house. This
10:28:53 one is .2 miles from my house.
10:28:54 No matter what you say, you know, there might be more
10:28:57 toxic uses in the area but the that it's not going to
10:29:03 adversely property values because of the stigma, I
10:29:06 think it's naive to think that's not going to happen.
10:29:08 Like I said before when we are in an area where we are
10:29:11 trying to transform the area, trying to rehabilitate
10:29:13 it, it's not going to help at all.
10:29:16 And I think it's absurd that it's happening in our
10:29:18 neighborhood.
10:29:18 And not just once but twice.
10:29:20 And Hyde Park, Davis Island, it would absolutely not
10:29:23 be happening because there would be more people here.
10:29:26 Just because we are a smaller voice doesn't mean we
10:29:29 don't deserve the same recognition.
10:29:31 Thank you.
10:29:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone else want to speak?
10:29:33 We now go to item number 3.
10:29:39 >>> I know this is after the approval of the agenda
10:29:41 but it's been brought to my attention that if it is at

10:29:43 all possible with regard to the Gandy project, number
10:29:49 10, we do have staff members from the Florida
10:29:52 Department of Transportation who are here and if
10:30:02 council would allow that to be moved up to eleven.
10:30:05 >> So moved.
10:30:06 >> Second.
10:30:06 (Motion Carried).
10:30:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 10.
10:30:15 >>> Good morning, Madam Chair, members of the City
10:30:17 Council.
10:30:17 Scott Collister, Florida Department of Transportation.
10:30:22 A brief update on the department's plans for the Gandy
10:30:25 project, a project that we know is very important to
10:30:27 the local residents, businesses, City of Tampa and the
10:30:30 department.
10:30:31 As council probably recalls this is one of the
10:30:33 projects that lasts year the department had in our
10:30:35 work program we unfortunately had to make a bid
10:30:41 decision because the bids came in significantly higher
10:30:43 than the funds we had for the project and we had to
10:30:45 reject the single bid we received of about $46
10:30:48 million.

10:30:49 This is a very important project to the department
10:30:51 because it is an SIS facility, a facility that is part
10:30:55 of the strategic intermodal system and the department
10:30:58 wants to make sure we make this investment this year.
10:31:01 So I would like to have Mr. Jeff Novotney to cover the
10:31:11 operational, the aesthetic treatments that will be
10:31:16 included and then I'll close with a summary of the
10:31:18 project costs and our schedule.
10:31:24 >> The 46 million bid, how did that compare with the
10:31:27 projected?
10:31:29 >>> We only had -- I don't have all that data with us.
10:31:31 Our estimate was significantly lower than that.
10:31:34 Last year we had a really highly accelerating period
10:31:37 or spiral of construction costs.
10:31:39 A lot of factors related to that.
10:31:41 Shortages of labor.
10:31:42 Very high demand in the Hillsborough County area for
10:31:45 construction contractors.
10:31:47 I think if I recall, less than $30 million budgeted.
10:31:51 >> So that would be something in the 20s?
10:31:54 >>> Correct.
10:32:04 >>> Jeff Novotney.

10:32:08 We have some slides.
10:32:09 It includes basically two sections.
10:32:11 A causeway section which runs from east of the Gandy
10:32:14 bridge up to Bridge Street, and urban section that
10:32:16 runs from Bridge Street to just east of Dale Mabry.
10:32:19 Now, east of Dale Mabry to Bayshore, Gandy Boulevard
10:32:23 is under county jurisdiction at that point.
10:32:25 So this project only encompasses the causeway and the
10:32:28 urban section.
10:32:29 Approximately two and a half miles.
10:32:33 The project includes operational improvements and
10:32:35 aesthetic enhancements.
10:32:36 The operational improvements include improvements at
10:32:40 Westshore Boulevard for constructing westbound right
10:32:45 turn lane, additional right-of-way was acquired for
10:32:47 this turn lane.
10:32:48 Manhattan Avenue, the city was in the process of
10:32:52 expanding Manhattan from Euclid south to just south of
10:32:55 Gandy.
10:32:57 As part of this project we encompass their southern
10:32:59 section to facilitate construction at that
10:33:01 intersection.

10:33:04 Other improvements along Gandy include adding an
10:33:06 additional eastbound left turn lane at the
10:33:09 intersection, as well as a westbound right turn lane.
10:33:12 Both of those improvements required additional
10:33:15 right-of-way as well.
10:33:16 At Dale Mabry highway, at the far east end, additional
10:33:20 second left turn lanes were added to all four
10:33:22 quadrants of the intersection.
10:33:25 There are also additional ITS improvement to
10:33:28 facilitate traffic operations that include adding
10:33:31 cameras at key intersections to help better monitor
10:33:35 traffic conditions as necessary, also includes adding
10:33:40 changeable message signs throughout the corridor at
10:33:42 several locations to help monitor and notify motorists
10:33:46 of traffic conditions that may occur not only in the
10:33:48 Gandy corridor but other corridors within the system
10:33:54 as well.
10:33:55 The most notable difference with the Gandy after this
10:33:59 project is completed will be the two-way center left
10:34:03 turn lane in the urban section will be eliminated.
10:34:06 It's sometimes called a scramble lane.
10:34:08 Instead of 30-foot wide raised median will be

10:34:12 constructed.
10:34:12 Within this median, it will allow U-turns to occur at
10:34:16 the key intersections at media openings.
10:34:19 It will help improve safety within the corridor,
10:34:22 improve operations of vehicles not having to deal with
10:34:25 vehicles sitting next to them in the turn lane.
10:34:27 But also providing opportunity to consolidate
10:34:30 aesthetic treatments in terms of the landscaping
10:34:33 within the corridor.
10:34:34 The landscaping includes low level, ground level, as
10:34:39 well as median, also providing brick edging to provide
10:34:44 a buffer space between the roadway and the landscaping
10:34:47 itself.
10:34:47 Along the outside of the road -- and this is all
10:34:50 within the urban section.
10:34:51 Along the outside of the road between the sidewalk and
10:34:53 the roadway, there will be additional brick edging
10:34:57 provided, and visual buffer between the road and the
10:35:00 sidewalk.
10:35:01 Decorative lighting is included.
10:35:03 In the causeway section, the pedestrian
10:35:06 accommodations, actually pedestrian accommodations are

10:35:10 included throughout the urban section in terms of
10:35:12 adding ADA compliant ramps to all the sidewalk
10:35:15 connections.
10:35:17 There are also decorative crosswalks in the urban
10:35:21 section at the signalized intersections.
10:35:25 In the causeway section, we are adding a shared use
10:35:31 path towards Bridge Street which is the interface with
10:35:35 the urban section.
10:35:36 That was intended to connect to a future South Tampa
10:35:39 greenway connection.
10:35:40 Transit accommodations we did coordinate with Hartline
10:35:44 an PSTA, adding extra thick sidewalks in the area
10:35:49 where there are handicapped equipment will deploy off
10:35:52 the buses to make sure the sidewalk doesn't crack.
10:35:55 In terms of the utilities, there was early
10:35:57 coordination many years ago about trying to bury the
10:35:59 utilities.
10:36:00 Those costs were too excessive to be able to
10:36:04 accommodate so there is no bearing of utilities.
10:36:06 They are being accommodated however.
10:36:10 (Bell sounds)
10:36:13 Through the course of the discussions after the bids

10:36:17 were received and the bids were high, the department
10:36:20 decided to make some modifications to the project to
10:36:22 help lower the cost.
10:36:25 In the causeway section the pavement was going to be
10:36:27 resurfaced in that area.
10:36:29 However, when the Gandy bridge was rebuilt back in the
10:36:31 '90s the pavement was resurfaced so the department
10:36:36 decided to eliminate that, push it off for several
10:36:39 years, because the pavement is still in good
10:36:40 condition, hopefully save about $1.3 million.
10:36:45 Directional opening west of Bridge Street was added
10:36:48 after a public hearing, not as a result of the public
10:36:51 hearing but after a public hearing west of bridge
10:36:54 street.
10:36:55 The resurfacing work in that area has been eliminated
10:36:58 also.
10:36:59 On the north side of the causeway section leading from
10:37:02 the Friendship Trail towards Bridge Street, the shared
10:37:05 use path has been changed to a 5-foot sidewalk, to tie
10:37:08 into the existing sidewalk that exists along the north
10:37:12 side of the road there.
10:37:14 Also on the causeway section the proposed lighting has

10:37:17 been changed from decorative lighting to conventional
10:37:19 lighting.
10:37:20 That's essentially the same lighting that exists on
10:37:22 the Gandy bridge and will continue into towards bridge
10:37:25 street, where the decorative lighting will remain from
10:37:29 bridge street towards Dale Mabry.
10:37:33 In the urban sections, modifying the design slightly
10:37:37 for a procedural change. The pavement design will
10:37:39 still knead meet the needs for future traffic.
10:37:41 However, because of asphalt base is being used, there
10:37:46 was some redundancy in the layers and we were able to
10:37:49 save about $3 million in pavement design in that area.
10:37:53 There were about 5300 million feet of sidewalk in the
10:37:56 urban section that was designed as 8-foot wide.
10:37:59 The entire urban section was not designed with -foot
10:38:04 wide sidewalks because there were some right-of-way.
10:38:08 The sidewalk costs ended up being extremely high from
10:38:11 the original bids.
10:38:11 So all the sidewalk in the urban section has been
10:38:14 changed to 6-foot wide throughout that area.
10:38:19 Those cost savings result in approximately $5 million
10:38:22 of cost savings.

10:38:23 And I'll let him finish up.
10:38:30 >>> This slide shows the total amount of the design,
10:38:32 right-of-way, and our budgeted construction costs for
10:38:36 the project today.
10:38:37 We invested about $5.9 million in design and
10:38:39 right-of-way acquisition to construct this project and
10:38:42 our current budgeted construction costs given the
10:38:45 change in the con market is just over $26 million for
10:38:49 a total project investment of about $32 million.
10:38:52 I would like to close by mentioning, there are two
10:38:55 design elements that the department is still
10:38:57 considering.
10:38:57 We do have a request from the Hillsborough County
10:38:59 metropolitan planning organization bike and pedestrian
10:39:05 advisory committee to look again at our decision to
10:39:08 change the configuration of the trail on the northern
10:39:11 side of Dale Mabry -- I'm sorry, northern side of
10:39:14 Gandy from the shared use path to a sidewalk.
10:39:17 We'll take a hard look at that.
10:39:18 We also have a request from the city based upon the
10:39:20 presentation that was made to the council before for
10:39:22 the intersection of Westshore and Gandy.

10:39:25 To see if we can incorporate some of those design
10:39:27 elements of the -- that the council has briefed on the
10:39:31 project and we'll coordinate those responses back to
10:39:33 the city.
10:39:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you for that presentation.
10:39:42 The question I had was something I have been wondering
10:39:49 about for awhile. The folks coming out of Regency
10:39:52 mobile home park, I've heard -- and I have never seen
10:39:55 it actually on paper -- but that if -- are you both
10:39:59 familiar with Regency manor?
10:40:02 If they are coming out onto Gandy there was some
10:40:05 discussion they would have to go right, and under the
10:40:08 proposed design that they would have to go right
10:40:10 toward the bridge and cross over and then loop back to
10:40:14 the east to come back toward Tampa, which is -- go
10:40:23 ahead.
10:40:25 >>> That's correct.
10:40:25 As far as the design.
10:40:26 The section from Westshore to the west is classified
10:40:29 as access management classification 5.
10:40:35 And in that classification, there is a certain
10:40:38 distance required.

10:40:40 There was a median opening at the Westshore
10:40:43 intersection.
10:40:43 The intersection at Bridge Street is going to be the
10:40:46 directional meeting opening.
10:40:49 At that location which is west of the Regency entrance
10:40:53 would be an opportunity for those residents to get
10:40:55 onto Gandy, turn right on Gandy and get into the turn
10:40:59 lane to make a U-turn eastbound.
10:41:02 >> I just think that's amazingly unfair and
10:41:05 insensitive to what is basically becoming, probably
10:41:08 always has been, a senior park, a park for seniors.
10:41:13 These are not strangers to our community.
10:41:15 These are Tampa residents.
10:41:17 And they have always had the open ability to just
10:41:21 leave their park and go straight across and mach a
10:41:23 left to come back to their City of Tampa.
10:41:26 To make them now have to go right, cross over three
10:41:31 lanes of 50, 60, 70 mile-an-hour traffic, okay, just
10:41:35 to turn back around, you know, and then enter a fast
10:41:40 lane, I think you guys are doing a nice job on a lot
10:41:45 of this project, but I think that that part is
10:41:47 amazingly insensitive.

10:41:49 And I know you have your technical standards but I
10:41:52 think you also Ned to have your emotional side of you,
10:41:56 you know, tuned in a little bit more to the seniors of
10:41:58 that community.
10:42:01 >>> I do know that this issue was raised from the
10:42:03 public's perspective to the department's management
10:42:06 review committee earlier in 2005-2006, and it was
10:42:11 addressed through that process.
10:42:13 >> We are redesigning it now.
10:42:15 You are putting it back out to bid now.
10:42:17 True or false?
10:42:18 >>> Yes.
10:42:19 >> Yes.
10:42:19 You have an opportunity to revisit this.
10:42:22 And it needs to be revisited.
10:42:23 It really does.
10:42:24 I mean, I heard about it a year or two ago and
10:42:28 everybody said, oh, it was a done deal because of what
10:42:30 you just said, it went through some process.
10:42:32 It needs to be revisited.
10:42:33 We have a new governor.
10:42:35 Okay.

10:42:35 If we need to, this council, and that community, needs
10:42:38 to talk to that governor, to our governor, and say,
10:42:43 revisit this.
10:42:43 This is not right.
10:42:44 How many people live in Regency mobile home park?
10:42:46 It's hundreds and hundreds of units.
10:42:48 And they are mostly seniors.
10:42:50 They shouldn't have to have that disruption.
10:42:55 >>> The department will take a look again at the
10:42:58 access management issues and design issues.
10:43:00 Unfortunately when you have a corridor like Gandy with
10:43:02 multiple openings that come out onto the facility, you
10:43:05 have to consider each one of those openings as well as
10:43:07 our design criteria.
10:43:09 But we will take a look at that again.
10:43:12 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Mr. Dingfelder, thank you for
10:43:15 raising that issue because I was not intimately as
10:43:19 familiar with that as you are.
10:43:20 That sounds that it could be a significant safety
10:43:23 issue.
10:43:23 So definitely we need to take a look at that.
10:43:26 All right.

10:43:26 Let me ask, how much do you all have again, programmed
10:43:32 set aside for the project?
10:43:33 >>> We have budgeted 32 million.
10:43:35 I'm sorry, the total -- we had budgeted just over 26
10:43:39 million for the construction contract.
10:43:42 That also includes the inspection portion to
10:43:46 administer the contract.
10:43:47 >> So 26.
10:43:48 And is that all state D.O.T. money?
10:43:50 Is any of that local MPO money?
10:43:53 Is any of that trip funding available?
10:43:56 >>> No, primarily most of the funding on this project
10:43:58 are federal funds.
10:44:00 There was a small amount of state funds that are in
10:44:02 this as well.
10:44:03 >> Okay.
10:44:04 So we could certainly from the MPO's perspective, and
10:44:07 there are three of us here when it comes to some of
10:44:09 these --
10:44:11 >> Four.
10:44:12 >>SHAWN HARRISON: That's right.
10:44:14 Wow.

10:44:15 We certainly could help from the enhancement side of
10:44:20 the ledger, or from the STP side of the ledger,
10:44:25 certainly when it comes to some of the smaller
10:44:27 features that you all are now taking out, like the
10:44:30 bike path.
10:44:30 I think we would all agree that a 5-foot wide bike
10:44:33 path, there's probably in a point in doing it so we
10:44:36 definitely need to follow the B PAC's recommendation
10:44:40 on that fanned that means some additional costs
10:44:42 involved then you all come to the MPO for a funding
10:44:44 request for that.
10:44:45 I feel certainly we can help.
10:44:47 The other thing would be, is there a transit envelope
10:44:52 at all set aside in this?
10:44:54 >>> There's not.
10:44:55 Not in the current design.
10:44:56 Not within the right-of-way corridor that we have.
10:44:58 >> Do we have plenty of right-of-way that you could
10:45:00 put a 20-foot transit corridor like what we are doing
10:45:03 on Bruce B. Downs?
10:45:06 I know you have 32-foot wide medians.
10:45:10 So there's 32 feet there.

10:45:12 >>> It would not fit because of the spacing of the
10:45:14 right-of-way lane configuration.
10:45:16 >> We can't buy any more right-of-way.
10:45:18 So I guess we are stuck there.
10:45:19 But it sure seems like we are missing the opportunity
10:45:21 to set aside 20 feet for an envelope, whatever that
10:45:25 may be, HOV, VRT or light rail at some point.
10:45:31 I think that the trip funding, this is clearly a
10:45:35 regional facility from Pinellas to Hillsborough.
10:45:39 Trip funding through the MPO being the new growth
10:45:41 management act from last year.
10:45:42 That funding is available.
10:45:44 We worked cooperatively with the MPO in Pinellas
10:45:49 County.
10:45:49 I'm willing to bet you that we could gather some trip
10:45:52 dollars as well for this, because it is regionally
10:45:55 significant.
10:45:55 So I think what I'm telling you as chair of the MPO,
10:45:59 and three additional board members here, we believe in
10:46:03 this project, and we are here to help.
10:46:07 So let's not completely try to do it on the cheap.
10:46:10 Let's identify how we can help from our standpoint.

10:46:13 And we can, I think, create something that everybody
10:46:16 can live with there.
10:46:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Harrison said it very well.
10:46:26 These improvement along Gandy have been discussed for
10:46:28 over 20 years.
10:46:29 And the community has been actively involved in that
10:46:32 discussion for a very long time.
10:46:34 In the meetings with them, you all said, we want to
10:46:37 know what you want.
10:46:38 And they told you.
10:46:39 And it was included in the original plan.
10:46:42 It is not fair to this community to strip out the
10:46:45 things that make it a valuable community project
10:46:50 because the bids came in high.
10:46:52 What I would say to you is, don't spend money
10:46:56 redesigning it.
10:46:59 Think in terms of beginning the project in a phase and
10:47:04 working on finding the additional money through either
10:47:08 trip money or just simply saving the funding but don't
10:47:13 redesign it.
10:47:15 We, City Council, have approved a tremendous number of
10:47:18 rezonings in this area.

10:47:21 And the folks in Pinellas County have seen great
10:47:24 growth in this corridor.
10:47:25 We know the numbers will go up, the demands will
10:47:27 increase.
10:47:28 We need to make it pedestrian friendly, bicycle
10:47:32 friendly, transit friendly, as well as accommodating
10:47:35 more cars over the bridge.
10:47:37 It would not be responsible of us and of you to build
10:47:43 less than what was promised.
10:47:45 You spoke of the business decision.
10:47:47 It's our responsibility to make good communicate
10:47:50 decisions.
10:47:51 The good community decision is to build what you
10:47:54 planned, to come to us, the MPO, for the trip money,
10:47:59 and if that isn't immediately available, not to
10:48:02 curtail your construction, but rather to think of it
10:48:05 in terms of phases.
10:48:06 I feel very strongly that we need to build what was
10:48:10 originally contemplated, and what was promised to the
10:48:13 community.
10:48:16 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Before you answer that.
10:48:20 I agree with councilman Harrison as far as the transit

10:48:26 envelope is concerned.
10:48:27 We are talking regional right now.
10:48:30 Pinellas County is part of that.
10:48:33 And in order to bring it from Pinellas County to
10:48:36 Hillsborough, the Gandy is a wonderful way to bring it
10:48:42 in.
10:48:43 It's the right way to bring it in, to bring people in
10:48:46 from Pinellas County into Hillsborough through the
10:48:48 transit.
10:48:48 It's going to happen.
10:48:50 And now we are talking about expanding it to eight
10:48:53 counties.
10:48:54 So we need for you to really think about putting the
10:48:59 transit envelope in there somewhere.
10:49:03 And so, you know, come to the MPO and talk to us.
10:49:07 You have us here now.
10:49:09 And I think probably -- come to us and talk to us.
10:49:15 >>> My only closing comment again -- thank you -- the
10:49:18 department will take all of that into consideration.
10:49:20 I believe we are already on the agenda for the April
10:49:22 MPO meeting because we had an opportunity yesterday to
10:49:24 get a little bit expanded version of this presentation

10:49:26 to the MPO policy committee.
10:49:28 And at that time it was restate that the department is
10:49:31 on the agenda to discuss this project.
10:49:33 And we could certainly address these items that were
10:49:36 brought up to hear the transit possible addition of
10:49:39 the funding with the MPO's help to make changes to the
10:49:42 zin that we currently have, as well as the other two
10:49:44 items I mentioned, the Westshore and Gandy
10:49:47 intersection, as well as looking again at the trail on
10:49:50 the north side.
10:49:53 >>CHAIRMAN: Other questions by council members?
10:49:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I see our transportation director
10:49:58 in the front row.
10:49:59 Did you have any comments to make about this?
10:50:07 >>> Good morning, Madam Chair, council.
10:50:09 We recognize the significance of this project.
10:50:11 We do endorse all the enhancements that the project
10:50:15 originally had and we certainly look forward to a
10:50:17 project done in a timely fashion.
10:50:19 Again, funding is always the issue in carrying forth
10:50:22 these projects.
10:50:23 And we will interact with the Department of

10:50:25 Transportation as much as possible.
10:50:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:50:29 Have you made available to them that excellent report
10:50:31 by Tyndall Oliver?
10:50:36 >>> We have shared the report with them.
10:50:38 >> Good.
10:50:39 I think that's tremendously important, addresses the
10:50:42 Bridge Street issue and other things that you all need
10:50:45 to be aware of.
10:50:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you have any time lines, time frames
10:50:50 that you are going to try to implement phase one,
10:50:52 phase two, whatever?
10:50:54 >>> The way the current project is structured, Madam
10:50:55 Chair, we would do -- our contract letting or receive
10:50:59 bids in September of this year.
10:51:01 I don't have an estimate of the construction duration
10:51:03 on this project.
10:51:04 I'm assuming it's at least 24 months.
10:51:07 And to go in and do the project as it's currently
10:51:10 designed.
10:51:10 If we have more features, depending on the amount of
10:51:13 time it takes to design it, that may move the project

10:51:16 a little later into the fall of this year in order to
10:51:18 let it for construction.
10:51:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you for coming.
10:51:22 Item number 3 finally.
10:51:31 >>ROY LAMOTTE: Good morning again.
10:51:33 Transportation manager.
10:51:34 I'm here to talk about storm surge and the problems
10:51:37 affiliated with hurricanes impose the greatest cause
10:51:42 for loss of life.
10:51:45 So many months ago you asked me to consider the action
10:51:47 of having some signage related to this around our
10:51:49 city.
10:51:50 We undertook that charge and we actually identified
10:51:53 three particular locations in our city.
10:51:59 The first map on the Elmo, and basically point out to
10:52:01 you the Courtney Campbell causeway in the vicinity of
10:52:05 Ben Davis beach, Westshore Boulevard north of Gandy as
10:52:08 we talked about just a moment ago, and Westshore
10:52:10 Boulevard north of Interbay Boulevard.
10:52:13 Again, these particular locations were determined on a
10:52:17 maximum visibility along our major corridors.
10:52:23 We looked back after our last conversations with you

10:52:27 and spoke to both our art director and spoke to the
10:52:29 emergency management system in the county as well as
10:52:33 our emergency coordinator, and we believe that we took
10:52:37 these particular suggestions not only for locations
10:52:40 but looked at them in terms of the height elevations
10:52:44 that is achieved from tidal surge that takes place
10:52:47 during different types of categories, and we asked our
10:52:51 director about particular forms ever signage.
10:52:53 We did not want totem pole signage so we developed a
10:52:57 particular sign, and what's included in your package
10:53:02 made it very different from other signage that wave in
10:53:04 the city.
10:53:06 And it's a little different to see with the color
10:53:08 contrast here but those colors are actually the same
10:53:11 colors, and we sought uniformity when we have the
10:53:14 hurricane evacuation map that is actually distributed
10:53:16 in our newspapers, in our publications, in our media
10:53:20 presentations, and we spoke to them about the idea of
10:53:23 how we communicate to the motorists.
10:53:26 And depending on the speed of the motorists traveling
10:53:29 they can only really read about three lines, about 30
10:53:35 miles per hour but we did want to convey the message

10:53:37 that there's a different surge level and different
10:53:39 category of evacuation, and what that maximum level
10:53:43 was based on what the evacuation map had told us.
10:53:47 We also used the colors with the actual evacuation
10:53:53 map.
10:53:54 There's an addition we could actually have, the
10:53:56 category of enterprise on the particular map, if that
10:54:00 was so needed.
10:54:01 But, again, we want to take this opportunity to
10:54:03 suggest to you that the real ability of communicating
10:54:07 with the motorists is through education, and getting
10:54:11 people to conform to our evacuation orders.
10:54:14 And I'm not here to suggest to you that signage is
10:54:17 an -- isn't important.
10:54:19 I can only tell you that you asked me to integrate it
10:54:22 into our media publications and also convey a message
10:54:25 that was used in other communities.
10:54:27 We have seen what we have done in St. Petersburg and
10:54:29 we have seen a lot of totem pole signage.
10:54:32 He would don't want that look in our city.
10:54:33 We also looked at what other communities have done,
10:54:38 and particularly indicating that hurricane storm surge

10:54:42 may cause the roadway to be covered by a particular
10:54:45 amount of roadway and they actually included a phone
10:54:48 call number.
10:54:48 He would don't want to Croat panic in our
10:54:50 neighborhood.
10:54:50 We also looked at what was done on beaches and how
10:54:53 they have signage there.
10:54:54 But much too small for an operator to see in a
10:54:57 vehicle.
10:54:59 We suggested that, again, we would put particular
10:55:07 locations but we would like to do an immediate
10:55:09 presentation that could be released with our cable
10:55:11 communications just before an event would take place.
10:55:14 Share it with our emergency coordinator and try to
10:55:16 address the public through an educational forum.
10:55:19 And we would also ask that the printed publication
10:55:21 that is come out would carry this message of storm
10:55:23 surge and tell people how it affects them in the areas
10:55:27 they are affected in.
10:55:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I love to you death but I don't
10:55:36 understand what's wrong with that totem pole.
10:55:39 If you could put that back up from St. Petersburg or

10:55:41 Pinellas.
10:55:41 You can't see it very well.
10:55:52 That's obviously at a busy part of the city.
10:55:54 Because there's a gas station there.
10:55:55 So I'm going to assume it's some type of Boulevard.
10:55:58 And it sends exactly the message that was intended, to
10:56:03 say, I'm going to guess on that bottom sign probably
10:56:06 says category 1 or category 2 storm, 7-foot storm
10:56:10 surge. This is what 7 feet means.
10:56:12 And the next one says category 3.
10:56:14 You know, 10 feet, et cetera, et cetera.
10:56:17 And then that top one is pretty darned daunting
10:56:20 because if a category 4 or 5 comes in, folks, this is
10:56:23 what 15 or 20 feet really is about.
10:56:25 I don't think it creates panic.
10:56:27 It's not going to create pan you can because you are
10:56:29 driving by it day in and day out but it creates
10:56:32 exactly the type of education that you are talking
10:56:34 about.
10:56:34 Having a one-time press conference is a wonderful
10:56:36 idea.
10:56:37 And we should do that when we respond.

10:56:39 But that's exactly what it is.
10:56:41 It's one time.
10:56:42 You forget about it and it's come and gone.
10:56:44 If you had this type of signage then it's there for us
10:56:47 to see day in and day out and you get that repeat
10:56:50 message in your brain.
10:56:51 And that's the true education.
10:56:54 So that way, some day, when a September storm comes
10:56:59 along and God forbid it's a category 1 or 2, everybody
10:57:03 goes, oh, I remember seeing that sign up at the corner
10:57:06 of Dale Mabry and Euclid or El Prado, and seven feet,
10:57:11 oh, my God.
10:57:13 We better leave and we better leave in a timely manner
10:57:16 and it's not to cause panic.
10:57:18 It's about responsible government, and it's about
10:57:21 getting people to get moving and get out like they
10:57:24 need to.
10:57:24 And especially in South Tampa, in my peninsula.
10:57:29 I feel strongly about it.
10:57:31 We wasted six months talking about it.
10:57:32 And you come back and said we don't lick totem poles.
10:57:36 Do we have to pass an ordinance to require you to put

10:57:39 up totem poles like they should be?
10:57:41 >> I think not.
10:57:43 I think key word is communication and I think that's
10:57:45 what we are striving for.
10:57:46 The difference is we have a difference of opinion on
10:57:49 people's ability to remember.
10:57:50 That's why a lot of our signs were changed
10:57:53 particularly on our school zones to use the high
10:57:55 intensity green, the high fluorescent orange in a
10:57:59 construction zone so they see them.
10:58:02 What happens over time is people will at signs and
10:58:04 they almost disappear in their minds.
10:58:06 And they are only reminded of it when the opportunity
10:58:08 comes that they are confronted with it such as speed
10:58:11 signs, and the police officer comes back, it's 35 and
10:58:16 you're doing 50.
10:58:17 >> That's going to disappear if we don't put them up
10:58:20 to start with.
10:58:21 >>> What we are trying to do is use a combination sign
10:58:23 so rather than have multiples they could read one
10:58:26 sign.
10:58:26 If you believe that's necessary, when don't need a

10:58:30 bylaw passed for that.
10:58:31 I'm here to communicate with you.
10:58:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I read your report.
10:58:37 And there are two things that came to mind.
10:58:40 Number one is installing such signage may negatively
10:58:45 impact property values in the neighborhood.
10:58:47 I think that is a valid concern.
10:58:49 And then on the second sheet, you said, city staff
10:58:52 does not recommend installing such signage at this
10:58:55 time.
10:58:55 I concur with that.
10:58:57 I think that the signs are unnecessary, and I really
10:59:02 believe that they could negatively effect property
10:59:06 values.
10:59:07 And I think that anyone who has lived through even the
10:59:09 first hurricane season understands that it is
10:59:13 imperative to vacate the city when throws a hurricane.
10:59:16 And frankly the difference between ten feet and 22
10:59:19 feet is really not as relevant as if it's over four
10:59:24 feet you better be getting out of dodge.
10:59:26 So I don't think we should spend any more money or
10:59:29 time on this.

10:59:31 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Mr. Dingfelder, I appreciate your
10:59:34 concern and your caring for your constituents out in
10:59:38 the South Tampa area.
10:59:39 But --
10:59:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: West Tampa, too.
10:59:44 If storm surge, it's West Tampa, too.
10:59:47 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I understand that.
10:59:48 But if we are getting a category 3 storm and there are
10:59:51 category 4, people are not going to be around and I
10:59:54 know the signs should be there because ware going to
10:59:56 look at the sign.
10:59:57 But Mr. LaMotte has some valid points in there.
11:00:00 And I didn't mean to laugh.
11:00:07 Anyway, Mr. LaMotte had some valid points.
11:00:12 And Linda pointed them out.
11:00:16 I wouldn't be in favor of going forward with this.
11:00:20 Everybody knows what a storm surge, especially the
11:00:23 people on Bayshore.
11:00:24 They know how high it gets.
11:00:27 So I won't support that.
11:00:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The only thing I would respond is
11:00:30 this.

11:00:31 A, we have said all along we are not going to put
11:00:33 these in the neighborhoods, that worry talking about
11:00:35 putting them out on the major roads, where the most
11:00:37 people can see them, and it's not a function of trying
11:00:40 to destroy people's home values by putting them, you
11:00:43 know, on the little side roads and the side streets,
11:00:46 right in front of people's houses.
11:00:49 Talking about putting that on Dale Mabry or Kennedy or
11:00:51 the appropriate locations.
11:00:52 We can still our heads in the sand all we want on this
11:00:55 issue and say, oh, people understand this and people
11:00:58 will do what they need to do.
11:00:59 But they didn't in Louisiana and Mississippi.
11:01:03 Okay?
11:01:03 There was some warnings out there.
11:01:05 And they did not respond accordingly.
11:01:08 People are people.
11:01:09 And they are going to hope that it comes out.
11:01:12 And I'm not just talking about a category 2 or 3 or 4.
11:01:16 I'm talking about a category 1, which, Roy, you just
11:01:19 showed us a 7-foot storm surge.
11:01:21 7-foot storm surge has a major impact around the

11:01:25 entire periphery of the city.
11:01:27 >>MARY ALVAREZ: But do you really think that the signs
11:01:30 in New Orleans was going to keep the people out of
11:01:32 there?
11:01:32 I don't think so.
11:01:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I it would help people have a
11:01:36 better understanding of what this type of storm surge
11:01:39 would really mean to them and get in their heads to
11:01:41 get out and get out earlier and faster.
11:01:44 >>CHAIRMAN: Mr. Dingfelder, some people can know
11:01:46 what's going on and they will still not gonna leave.
11:01:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't want to be responsible for
11:01:53 saying -- we are responsible.
11:01:56 This is a duty we have.
11:01:57 I don't want to be responsible for saying we were too
11:01:59 cheap or too something to put up these signs and give
11:02:02 people the warning, at least if we put up the signs
11:02:05 and people decide not to run then that's their
11:02:07 business and their decision.
11:02:09 >>MARY ALVAREZ: The only time people will actually
11:02:11 look at a sign or be aware is when you are in a storm.
11:02:15 Nobody cares the other time.

11:02:19 It just doesn't happen.
11:02:20 I could care less what happened last year.
11:02:22 It happened last year.
11:02:23 If it comes this year then I'll remember, oh, yeah,
11:02:26 better get out because the storm surge is going to
11:02:28 take my house.
11:02:29 We don't have to spend the money on this.
11:02:32 >>GWEN MILLER: And I think Mr. LaMotte knows what we
11:02:35 need to do and where to put them.
11:02:37 So I'll go with what he's suggesting to us.
11:02:43 If he says that we need them in a certain area, I
11:02:46 agree with you, Mr. LaMotte, if you think when don't
11:02:49 need them in another area.
11:02:51 Tough knowledge and the ability to do this and I think
11:02:53 you know what you need to do for us for the City of
11:02:56 Tampa.
11:02:59 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Mr. LaMotte, thank you for coming
11:03:07 a addressing this issue.
11:03:09 I have a fundamental question. This appears to be
11:03:11 part of emergency response education for the city.
11:03:16 Is that typically under your purview and your
11:03:19 division?

11:03:20 >> No, sir.
11:03:20 That's under the fire department, fire chief and
11:03:24 emergency coordinator and Hillsborough County.
11:03:27 >> Is this part of their emergency management plan?
11:03:32 >> We have reached out to coordinate with them.
11:03:35 And I have shared our feelings on the matter and I
11:03:38 have also shared their ability of how we should
11:03:40 educate.
11:03:42 And while they support the issue of signs they also
11:03:46 support media and publications.
11:03:48 >> So your recommendation is after consultation with
11:03:52 the emergency management staff and is consistent with
11:03:57 their recommendation?
11:03:59 >> At this point in time I'm suggesting that we
11:04:02 utilize a different form of communicating.
11:04:06 Again, councilman Fletcher, I certainly admire, and I
11:04:10 attempt to communicate with my colleagues as much as
11:04:13 possible, and we have professional differences.
11:04:21 >> What does that mean?
11:04:23 >>> It means it the T emergency coordinators, the use
11:04:25 of signs could be done, John -- councilman Dingfelder,
11:04:31 I'm sorry -- and where I differ with that is I believe

11:04:34 between the communication and the media through
11:04:36 publications and also through announcements that are
11:04:39 given at emergency evacuation orders, that would be
11:04:42 the best way to communicate.
11:04:43 >> Why don't we just get emergency management to come
11:04:46 back in a month and tell us what they say instead of
11:04:48 having all this here say?
11:04:50 >>> This is my suggestion, that we find out what the
11:04:52 city's emergency education plan is, because this is a
11:04:56 big usual you, making sure that people leave when they
11:04:59 are supposed to leave, and don't panic and leave
11:05:02 early.
11:05:04 And I'm sure that we have a plan in place to do this.
11:05:09 If this signage should be part of that plan or is part
11:05:12 of that plan we should do it.
11:05:13 If it's not, I think we shouldn't do it.
11:05:16 I tend to agree with councilman Saul-Sena's concerns.
11:05:22 But if our emergency managers think we need to do
11:05:24 this, I think he would should do it.
11:05:26 I'm not sure that Mr. LaMotte is the right person to
11:05:28 be evaluating this.
11:05:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Maybe we put him in the wrong spot.

11:05:33 >>CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. LaMotte.
11:05:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I make a motion we hear back from
11:05:38 emergency management in 30 days and hear what they
11:05:41 have to say about this as well as Mr. LaMotte come
11:05:43 back and join us.
11:05:46 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Make it 38 days.
11:05:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll make it 40 days.
11:05:55 >>> That would be in April?
11:05:56 >> If council wants to make it --
11:05:58 >> The second meeting in April.
11:06:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let's say the second meeting in
11:06:02 April.
11:06:03 >> I would like to clarify.
11:06:06 I think the topic is what is emergency management
11:06:09 doing in terms ever public education of the public
11:06:12 about when to exit stage right, and generally.
11:06:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I might also specifically like to
11:06:23 know how they feel about this type of signage,
11:06:25 specifically.
11:06:26 Instead of hearing hearsay.
11:06:33 >>CHAIRMAN: We have a motion and second on the floor.
11:06:34 >>MARTIN SHELBY: What was that date?

11:06:37 >>GWEN MILLER: --
11:06:42 >>> April 12th.
11:06:43 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I said Nay.
11:06:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Did we get the resolution?
11:06:49 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Move the resolution.
11:06:54 Did we get the resolution?
11:06:56 Okay, we move the resolution now.
11:06:57 >>MARY ALVAREZ: So moved.
11:06:58 >> Second.
11:06:59 (Motion carried).
11:06:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Harrison, if you are here would you
11:07:06 please come back to the chambers?
11:07:08 We are going to go to item number 6 while we are
11:07:10 waiting on Mr. Harrison.
11:07:12 Representative from parks.
11:07:17 >> Karen Palus, parks and recreation director here on
11:07:20 a lighter note regarding our little league
11:07:24 organization.
11:07:25 Their request was to report on the new requirements
11:07:28 for our little league field and our youth athletic
11:07:31 field throughout the city.
11:07:32 There has been a recommendation for those

11:07:33 organizations that fall into the little league
11:07:36 national for an increase to their field size, and that
11:07:40 has been a recommendation due to the new technology
11:07:44 that's out there, that so many of us use.
11:07:51 One of the things that has come through in that
11:07:53 process is many of our facilities do not have the
11:07:55 capability to be extended for their field size.
11:07:59 That's due to constraints.
11:08:01 I'll show you a few pictures in just a minute.
11:08:03 But one of the things with that requirement, it is not
11:08:06 a requirement for their league play.
11:08:10 It's only a requirement for tournament play.
11:08:12 So it's a local league option whether they extend
11:08:16 those field or not.
11:08:17 We do have six of our facilities out of eleven that do
11:08:19 meet the requirements currently.
11:08:21 And any new fields that are built in the city and any
11:08:25 of the areas that work with little league are
11:08:28 recommended that you build them at the new field
11:08:30 requirements.
11:08:31 So that's the scenario there.
11:08:33 I want to share with you real quickly what the

11:08:35 constraints we're talking about.
11:08:37 They are planning a meeting at national little league
11:08:41 in April that are discussing expanding the -- to
11:08:47 extend the fencing in the back, so the balls stay in
11:08:51 play, and up on the Elmo, I wanted to show you the
11:08:57 Bayshore little league which was identified in the
11:09:00 motion.
11:09:01 You can see their field here, around the center field,
11:09:06 for them to be able to move that to 225 there's not
11:09:09 anyplace they can go other than into the water.
11:09:13 So pretty much got about ten pounds of sugar in a
11:09:20 five-pound bag there. So they utilized most of their
11:09:23 capabilities throughout the facility.
11:09:25 And they have got a great program there and are doing
11:09:28 very well.
11:09:29 Again, the only constraint they have on them is the
11:09:32 fact that they cannot be --
11:09:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: On Davis Island, Bayshore little
11:09:40 league, they were talking about if they could rebuild
11:09:44 their concession stand maybe over toward the
11:09:51 playground there, that they could pull that back
11:09:55 toward the street and be in regulation.

11:09:58 Just theoretically is that feasible?
11:10:01 Has anybody looked at the geometry of that.
11:10:03 >>> We did look at the geometry of that.
11:10:05 There's about 18 feet on that site.
11:10:07 That would be appropriate, as well as the review of
11:10:12 demolition of that facility to build a new one.
11:10:15 And it's really not a cost effective measure.
11:10:17 The only thing, right now they are not eligible for
11:10:24 tournament play in that particular facility.
11:10:26 >> That means every tournament that they would ever be
11:10:28 in, they would always be playing away?
11:10:31 >>> That's correct.
11:10:31 >> I guess that's part of what concerns me.
11:10:35 >>> The challenge with that facility beyond the
11:10:38 scenario the way it's configured is there's very
11:10:41 limited parking.
11:10:43 A lot of those tournaments when they bid on those,
11:10:46 they are log for facilities that can meet the large
11:10:49 parking areas, and to provide the facility for the
11:10:52 kids to play in.
11:10:54 I will share with you the geometry real quick
11:10:57 regarding new facilities that are built, so you can

11:11:01 see the difference of what our standards are in the
11:11:02 way we build things.
11:11:10 This is where you have the significant amount of
11:11:12 property to build on.
11:11:13 You can build -- the new facilities you need.
11:11:19 A lot of facilities that have been built over the
11:11:24 years because of the amount of increase in the
11:11:27 successful programs.
11:11:28 >>FRANK REDDICK: You are stating 6 out of 11 met the
11:11:33 requirement.
11:11:33 What are the five that didn't meet it?
11:11:35 >>> The five that do not meet the requirement right
11:11:37 now are inner bay, but they do have some capabilities
11:11:41 on one of their fields, West Tampa on fields, wells
11:11:45 wood, Tampa Bay and Belmont heights.
11:11:49 So those do not meet the new requirement.
11:11:52 Again it's only for tournaments.
11:11:54 But they are visiting -- meeting that height if it can
11:11:58 be elevated in lieu of the distance of the field so
11:12:01 that they would be eligible at some point.
11:12:03 We'll know more about that in April after they come
11:12:05 back.

11:12:06 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Talk to me about the Wellswood and the
11:12:08 West Tampa ones.
11:12:10 >>> Wellswood and West Tampa they run on a different
11:12:12 program.
11:12:13 >> That's pony league?
11:12:14 >>> They are actually now Cal Ripken league.
11:12:19 We have Cal Ripken, AAU, and Babe Ruth and pony league
11:12:24 which are all multiple organizations beyond just
11:12:26 little league but utilize our facility.
11:12:28 So many of them have all different types of
11:12:32 requirements for their field in their tournament play.
11:12:35 >> What about West Tampa?
11:12:36 >> West Tampa is -- they are little league currently.
11:12:40 >> Little league.
11:12:44 >>> Wellswood is pony.
11:12:47 I will show you the configuration of West Tampa.
11:12:51 And the order here.
11:12:56 >>FRANK REDDICK: Also show me the configuration on
11:12:58 Belmont Height little league.
11:13:01 >>> They can meet on some of the capabilities but not
11:13:13 all of them.
11:13:14 West Tampa, they have the ability, when we to be able

11:13:18 to extend some of their fencing and such.
11:13:21 Same thing with Wellswood as we revisit Wellswood.
11:13:26 That will really show you the challenges you face when
11:13:28 you start to try to move fencing.
11:13:31 The geometry gets a little -- that's configuration.
11:13:36 >>MARY ALVAREZ: When is the lighting going in at
11:13:39 Wellswood?
11:13:41 >>> Eminently out to bid.
11:13:43 We'll be scheduling that with them once we have the
11:13:45 bids awarded and moving forward.
11:13:49 Here is Wellswood.
11:13:53 Cal Ripken.
11:13:54 You can see the geometry on the one that says 190.
11:14:05 You have the distance of the -- the lighting that's
11:14:09 currently there.
11:14:10 >>GWEN MILLER: To my knowing, Belmont Heights the
11:14:23 ballparks --
11:14:24 >>> It depends which organization.
11:14:27 Some of them they qualify for different levels of
11:14:29 tournaments.
11:14:31 >> Ms. Alvarez was out there.
11:14:44 >>> Let me get this back in order.

11:14:46 And I will share with council that we are in the
11:14:47 process of analyzing all of our facilities, and to
11:14:54 what degree there is maintenance issues and standards
11:14:56 that need to be addressed.
11:14:59 Here we go.
11:15:02 Here they are.
11:15:12 They have the ability in this particular one, 200
11:15:16 foot.
11:15:18 There isn't much constraint on them except for that
11:15:20 right field line.
11:15:22 >>CHAIRMAN: Now you are saying --
11:15:29 >>> They have, unless little league changes their
11:15:30 requirements.
11:15:32 And it's the recommendation from them.
11:15:35 It's not a requirement.
11:15:36 But it does impact the tournaments.
11:15:43 >>FRANK REDDICK: And this determination will be made
11:15:44 next month when you do the evaluation?
11:15:48 >>> What national little league is doing, they have a
11:15:51 meeting in April.
11:15:52 This is one of the items they are bringing forward
11:15:54 because of the little league organization is bringing

11:15:55 that that to their attention but it is costly for them
11:15:59 to make improvements and upgrade.
11:16:02 Many of their facilities, because the impacts of the
11:16:04 light poles and such do not come into the play fields,
11:16:09 really has a tendency to manipulate their geometry to
11:16:12 be able to meet that need.
11:16:13 So that's why they are exploring the opportunity of
11:16:18 extending upward to be able to keep those in play.
11:16:22 >> Karen, what about the Tampa Bay little league?
11:16:24 They have a problem, too.
11:16:26 Can they do tournament play in there?
11:16:29 >>> They can still do tournament play in there.
11:16:30 It has the same challenges as some of the other
11:16:33 facilities as limited parking.
11:16:35 And it's again, we don't as a city monitor and
11:16:40 determine who gets the tournaments.
11:16:41 It's up to their regional offices and how they manage
11:16:44 that.
11:16:50 >>CHAIRMAN: Ms. Saul-Sena, if you hear me, would you
11:16:52 please come back to the chambers?
11:16:56 Item number 5.
11:16:58 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Item number 5 is file E-2006-

11:17:02 chapter 13, an appeal hearing for a grand tree.
11:17:06 This is before council pursuant to rule 4-c when the
11:17:11 matter which is a subject of agenda item is
11:17:13 considered, and four votes are not obtained either in
11:17:15 support or opposition to the matter, the matter is
11:17:18 automatically brought before the council at the next
11:17:20 regular meeting as unfinished business.
11:17:22 This a Pell hearing was closed.
11:17:24 A motion was made to grant the appeal.
11:17:29 And the motion did not receive the requisite four
11:17:33 votes.
11:17:33 It received two votes in favor and two votes in
11:17:35 opposition.
11:17:37 Council, just as a brief summary, to understand the
11:17:40 procedure, the posture where you are right now, a yes
11:17:45 vote to the motion would grant the appeal and overturn
11:17:49 the parks and recreation decision to allow the removal
11:17:52 of the grand tree.
11:17:53 A no vote would deny the appeal and sustain the
11:17:56 decision of parks and rec to allow the removal of the
11:17:59 grand tree.
11:18:00 So in summary, with the motion that is before council

11:18:05 presently, a yes vote would prevent the removal of the
11:18:08 grand tree, and a in vote would allow the removal of
11:18:11 the grand tree.
11:18:12 And that's where you presently stand.
11:18:14 Three members of council, I believe, were absent.
11:18:18 Chairman Miller, councilman Alvarez and councilman
11:18:21 Reddick.
11:18:22 Are you all prepared to vote on the issue?
11:18:24 >> Yes.
11:18:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.
11:18:27 >>GWEN MILLER: do we need to state the motion again?
11:18:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The motion is made by council member
11:18:35 Dingfelder, seconded by Saul-Sena, that council grants
11:18:38 the appeal of Susan Kessler based on competent
11:18:39 evidence supporting the appeal and again the motion
11:18:44 was not adopted, with Fletcher and Harrison voting no,
11:18:47 and Miller, Alvarez and Reddick being absent at vote.
11:18:51 >>GWEN MILLER: All those in favor of the motion to
11:18:54 appeal.
11:18:58 Is that the right way?
11:19:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Again, counsel, just so you are clear
11:19:05 to the posture, a yes vote will prevent the remove of

11:19:08 the tree and a in a vote will allow the removal.
11:19:10 >>CHAIRMAN: All those in favor of preventing removal
11:19:13 of the tree vote Aye.
11:19:16 Got two Aye.
11:19:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Announce please, madam clerk.
11:19:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Reddick, Mr. Dingfelder and Ms.
11:19:27 Saul-Sena.
11:19:28 Okay.
11:19:28 All in favor of granting to remove the tree vote no.
11:19:34 Supposed to say no?
11:19:38 >> Do you want to do a hand vote?
11:19:43 >> No on removing the tree.
11:19:47 >>SHAWN HARRISON: We are not voting to remove a tree
11:19:49 or save a tree.
11:19:52 We are voting based on the evidence from the appeal
11:19:54 that was presented last week.
11:19:56 And I don't think that the way this is being set up is
11:20:01 the appropriate way to say it.
11:20:03 Because there's more to this than simply "I want to
11:20:08 remove the tree our" or I don't want to remove the
11:20:12 tree.
11:20:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I grant you that.

11:20:14 Councilman Harrison, I apologize for setting it forth
11:20:17 that way.
11:20:17 Obviously whatever decision you make is based on the
11:20:21 competent, substantial evidence in the record as you
11:20:23 determine it to be.
11:20:24 And that is clearly your determination.
11:20:28 What I just want to be clear is for you to understand
11:20:30 the posture which is before you what a Nay or Aye is.
11:20:34 And I apologize for phrasing it in that way.
11:20:37 Again, councilman Harrison, the way you stated it is
11:20:40 quite accurate.
11:20:41 And quite appropriate.
11:20:42 I apologize.
11:20:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I guess I'm confused.
11:20:46 Because I think at the end of the day, the woman
11:20:49 wanted to remove the tree.
11:20:52 The petitioner filed an appeal to save the tree.
11:20:56 My motion, seconded by Ms. Saul-Sena, was to go with
11:21:00 the petitioner and save the tree.
11:21:03 Okay.
11:21:03 So just for clarity, a vote yes on my motion will save
11:21:08 the tree.

11:21:11 Vote no and the tree will go because that's what the
11:21:14 woman has applied to do.
11:21:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And that is also true.
11:21:18 And again for clarification sake, your decision
11:21:21 ultimately has to be based on the competent
11:21:23 substantial evidence in the record as you determine it
11:21:25 to be.
11:21:28 >>GWEN MILLER: We are going to vote again.
11:21:31 On Mr. Dingfelder's motion to go with the petitioner,
11:21:37 all in favor of going with the petitioner say Aye.
11:21:42 Those who oppose the petition say no.
11:21:46 Okay.
11:21:49 Fletcher, Harrison, Miller, and Alvarez, no.
11:22:02 So that's it.
11:22:04 Item number 7.
11:22:07 Legal department.
11:22:12 >>ROY LAMOTTE: Transportation manager.
11:22:14 We go back and revisit the issue of the particular
11:22:20 site at South Howard and Jetton.
11:22:25 This is running north and south, Howard Avenue, east
11:22:28 and west.
11:22:29 And this is the site.

11:22:30 We revisited this site some time ago.
11:22:33 This was the original setting out there that shows how
11:22:39 horrible the site was when we first inspected it.
11:22:41 The issue was to how it can be improved and whether
11:22:43 the right-of-way should be allowed for parking.
11:22:46 We identified at the time that we needed -- I'll show
11:22:50 you one other picture to bring you up to date before
11:22:52 he would show you the most recent pictures.
11:22:55 This is again a picture that shows that the -- there's
11:23:00 an island of planting.
11:23:02 There's a sidewalk that's continuous to Howard.
11:23:06 We asked it be made according to the Americans with
11:23:10 Disabilities Act ballards be installed with the
11:23:13 sidewalk in front of each parking space and no parking
11:23:15 be allowed on the north side of Jetton street, 64 feet
11:23:19 west of Howard, and that the proposed parking layout
11:23:22 and sidewalk be depicted to scale.
11:23:24 They did prepare a map for us.
11:23:27 At the last meeting that we met with, we went out and
11:23:30 met onto site, we asked them to make improvements to
11:23:34 the site.
11:23:36 I am going to demonstrate through three particular

11:23:40 programs how that is accomplished.
11:23:41 You can see here that we have a sidewalk.
11:23:43 The sidewalk -- and I am going to put these in order,
11:23:46 coming from the back of the site, moving forward, you
11:23:49 can see that the ballard posts provide adequate space
11:23:55 for those who are disabled and moving through the
11:23:57 parking lot through the actual street.
11:23:58 You can see that the actual walkway has been defined
11:24:01 through linear lines.
11:24:06 I would like to share one other photo with the council
11:24:08 at this time.
11:24:11 Opposing the actual drive-out into the area.
11:24:14 And you can see that there is a sign that allows no
11:24:16 left turn to the neighborhood.
11:24:19 We believe that there's been adequate improvements
11:24:24 done to the site to provide guidance where the
11:24:31 pedestrian should walk.
11:24:32 We feel it shows how to use the walk and they have
11:24:40 made improvements to the site beyond where we were at
11:24:43 the last meeting.
11:24:44 I'll take questions to anything you have related to
11:24:46 that.

11:24:46 >>GWEN MILLER: We have none.
11:24:47 We appreciate it, Mr. LaMotte.
11:24:51 Mr. Michelini, you wanted to say something on that?
11:24:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I wanted to say also to Mr.
11:24:57 Michelini and to your clients, I think it's a good
11:24:59 show and a good compromise.
11:25:02 It appears that you all have made accommodations to
11:25:08 the community.
11:25:09 At the same time, it's something that will benefit
11:25:10 everybody.
11:25:11 I think that's the way to do business.
11:25:12 >>STEVE MICHELINI: thank you.
11:25:14 Basically we have been monitoring and dealing with
11:25:16 this issue for some time.
11:25:17 And I have some additional photographs showing you
11:25:21 that Mr. LaMotte had some from further back.
11:25:24 This shows there was a contention that you couldn't
11:25:28 get past the landscaped island.
11:25:30 So we took a handicapped person through there to make
11:25:35 sure that everyone knew that you could in fact get
11:25:38 through, and that it was per code.
11:25:43 You brought up a question regarding the solid waste

11:25:50 dumpster, a compacter.
11:25:52 We had ordered that to be installed right after the
11:25:56 hearing last week or two weeks ago, and they didn't
11:25:59 get it installed, but this is a superimposed version
11:26:01 of what it would look like.
11:26:03 This was the before view.
11:26:06 And this is the after.
11:26:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Very good.
11:26:11 >>STEVE MICHELINI: This is the before view on the side
11:26:15 and this is the after.
11:26:17 So all of that.
11:26:22 >>CHAIRMAN: Thank you, and thank your client that we
11:26:25 appreciate the hard work he put in to do this for the
11:26:28 city.
11:26:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to thank you for the
11:26:30 improvement.
11:26:31 And since you have allowed Mr. Michelini to speak, I
11:26:34 wonder if there's anyone else in the audience that
11:26:35 wanted to speak on that.
11:26:37 >>GWEN MILLER: All right.
11:26:38 We go to item number 8.
11:26:40 Thank you.

11:26:41 Number 8.
11:26:49 Okay.
11:26:50 We go to item 9.
11:26:52 Okay, he came back.
11:26:56 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Number 8.
11:26:57 >>THOM SNELLING: Growth management, development
11:27:01 services.
11:27:04 We were asked to come back to talk about some of the
11:27:09 safety issues associated with property on Hawthorne
11:27:12 Avenue, 2923 specifically.
11:27:18 As you recall what happened, there was a single --
11:27:22 there was basically in-fill development.
11:27:25 It had an existing -- after we went through we found
11:27:31 out we did not increase or exacerbate any of the
11:27:33 public safety issues by allowing that particular piece
11:27:36 of property to keep its address and proceeded forth
11:27:40 with allowing that address and street sequence ton
11:27:46 stay the same.
11:27:47 One of the primary things, as always it ends up being
11:27:51 a difficult thing to get through as all these types of
11:27:54 things are.
11:27:55 We evaluate them on an individual basis, and we

11:27:59 basically follow the policy that we have been
11:28:01 following as long as I have been with the City of
11:28:02 Tampa when I was in land development as well as
11:28:05 currently.
11:28:06 Any other questions I can certainly address but we did
11:28:10 not exacerbate the emergency 911 issues or the postal
11:28:17 issues.
11:28:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We love it when you can
11:28:22 inconvenience the fewest number of people.
11:28:24 This is very good news.
11:28:25 Thank you for sharing it.
11:28:28 >>CHAIRMAN: Item number 9.
11:28:39 >>ROY LAMOTTE: Current code requires sidewalks with
11:28:45 more than 50% change to existing structures except
11:28:47 where construction constraints exist.
11:28:52 For example, ditches, slopes, trees, et cetera.
11:28:56 When not constructible owners must pay into an in lieu
11:29:02 fee.
11:29:03 Payments to be collected and deposited into district
11:29:06 accounts, which consist of basically Interbay,
11:29:09 Westshore, central business, central east, north
11:29:12 central, and university north.

11:29:17 Again, as a result, the transportation division cannot
11:29:21 appropriate the funds based on construction needs
11:29:23 within another district.
11:29:24 They can't be shared at the current time.
11:29:26 We are suggesting the elimination of the district and
11:29:30 future funds collected be deposited into one account
11:29:33 and taking its approach, sidewalk construction
11:29:35 programs, to be expedited.
11:29:39 Provides the opportunity for property owners of single
11:29:41 family residences to pay into the in lieu fee program
11:29:44 as opposed to constructing a sidewalk.
11:29:46 This action will not be extended to commercial
11:29:48 properties on houses or condos.
11:29:54 In lieu fee would also change from the $43 per linear
11:29:58 foot that he would originally came into $32 a linear
11:30:01 foot with the elimination of the districts.
11:30:04 The building industry concur was the changes.
11:30:06 However, they have a different position relative to
11:30:09 the calculation, sidewalk across the driveway to be
11:30:13 included in the overall in lieu fee.
11:30:15 We do outreach through the community through Shannon
11:30:19 Edge, and go to the individual neighborhood leaders,

11:30:25 and had some input and feedback which I haven't had
11:30:28 the opportunity to review entirely at this time.
11:30:31 And I suggest not rendering a decision today but to
11:30:33 take their feedback into consideration and hold it for
11:30:38 one week if that's a possibility.
11:30:40 We do believe we have a consensus.
11:30:41 We made a concession here.
11:30:43 And I will tell you that the 400,000 that exists, all
11:30:49 of them could actually create another mile and three
11:30:52 quarters to two miles of sidewalk.
11:30:55 In addition to what we already put in place.
11:31:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Roy.
11:31:02 I agree.
11:31:02 I think you need to carefully analyze the input from
11:31:05 T.H.A.N. and from all the neighborhoods who have
11:31:07 provided it.
11:31:16 One thing I don't understand is eliminating the
11:31:18 districts.
11:31:20 And maybe this is just -- I think folks in South Tampa
11:31:29 would be very upset.
11:31:31 Well, maybe not everyone just in South Tampa.
11:31:33 Let's take West Tampa.

11:31:34 I think folks in West Tampa would be very upset if
11:31:36 they knew that their sidewalk money was going to be
11:31:39 used to construct sidewalks up in New Tampa in Shawn's
11:31:44 district in places where they will likely never go in
11:31:48 their entire lives, or vice versa.
11:31:51 I think that in this particular case that the
11:31:55 districts were set up for a reason, and I think they
11:31:57 make sense.
11:31:57 The mere fact that we aren't accumulating a huge
11:32:00 amount of money, I think that's irrelevant.
11:32:05 I don't think folks in South Tampa or West Tampa
11:32:07 necessarily want to be contributing up in New Tampa or
11:32:09 vice versa.
11:32:15 >>> Let me explain this if you I may.
11:32:17 Regardless of where they fall in a city are judged on
11:32:19 a point system in which we use existing gaps necessary
11:32:24 schools, collector roadways, traffic areas, Hartline
11:32:29 routes, ADA complains areas, and it's rated in a total
11:32:32 database so we base these on priorities.
11:32:34 So what I am suggesting is you can't get a contract to
11:32:37 mobilize and go all over the city.
11:32:39 So what we try to do when we place a contract to go

11:32:42 out we actually assemble the funds, tell them where to
11:32:45 mobilize, and implement the contract.
11:32:46 And it may take time, like you suggest, to gather
11:32:49 these funds it and it may be a long time before we get
11:32:54 there. We believe the sidewalks are needed now and
11:32:56 that we could go out and implement this program
11:32:58 faster.
11:32:58 And that's part of the communication I need to convey
11:33:01 to the neighborhood leaders a little better and help
11:33:03 them understand why I want to make this.
11:33:07 My job is to get sidewalks in place and I'm sure you
11:33:10 share that.
11:33:11 >> Roy, let me clarify something.
11:33:12 Every year you guys come to us with a sidewalk
11:33:14 program.
11:33:15 Correct?
11:33:16 And you are building sidewalks in every district in
11:33:18 the city.
11:33:19 Every year.
11:33:22 >>> We put in two miles of sidewalk and under our
11:33:25 funding.
11:33:26 >> Burr but you are building them in every district in

11:33:28 the city.
11:33:28 I not like you are just building them over here and
11:33:31 just building them over here.
11:33:32 I look at the reports.
11:33:33 I know where the sidewalks are going in.
11:33:35 They are going in in every district in the city.
11:33:38 Correct?
11:33:38 >>> We try to accomplish that.
11:33:43 >> So I don't understand this mobilization concept at
11:33:45 all, because you're already mobilizing -- and I am
11:33:49 going to use South Tampa.
11:33:50 You are mobilizing in South Tampa.
11:33:55 You're building sidewalks in South Tampa.
11:33:56 I think South Tampa residents would expect that South
11:33:59 Tampa sidewalk fund money should stay in South Tampa.
11:34:03 The same thing for West Tampa.
11:34:04 The same thing for East Tampa and the same thing for
11:34:06 north Tampa.
11:34:07 I think the district system works.
11:34:09 And I think people would be very, very disappointed if
11:34:11 they said, oh, well, there's not going to be a
11:34:14 sidewalk on that house across the street, you know.

11:34:16 But at least it might be somewhere within a couple of
11:34:19 miles of my house as opposed to 20 miles away.
11:34:23 >>> I think that would disappoint people and I don't
11:34:25 think it makes sense.
11:34:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Alvarez.
11:34:31 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Mr. LaMotte, I have seen the list
11:34:35 of factors that you all use to rank these projects.
11:34:37 I think that it's appropriate to prioritize based on
11:34:41 need, and to do it city-wide.
11:34:46 I understand councilman Dingfelder's issue but from my
11:34:50 perspective, we need to get the sidewalks in as
11:34:53 quickly as possible in those areas where there's the
11:34:54 greatest need regardless of what part of the city
11:34:57 you're in.
11:34:58 And I would support that concept.
11:34:59 I think getting folks a little more comfortable with
11:35:03 what the factors are they are used to prioritize that
11:35:06 moo need might be helpful when -- when you come back.
11:35:11 >>> I appreciate your comments.
11:35:12 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Mr. LaMotte, I agree with Mr.
11:35:15 Fletcher.
11:35:15 We need to put sidewalks.

11:35:16 The greatest need that I see in West Tampa, my area,
11:35:20 for right now, and I have talked about this for years,
11:35:24 is that we need a sidewalk coming from Columbus drive
11:35:28 to Tampa Bay Boulevard on Matanzas that goes directly
11:35:33 to Tampa Bay Boulevard.
11:35:34 These children are walking in the street.
11:35:38 Because you know why?
11:35:40 There's ditches on both sides of Matanzas.
11:35:43 And I understand it's a stormwater issue.
11:35:47 But there's a house they just built A at Matanzas and
11:35:53 Tampa Bay Boulevard that they cover the ditches.
11:35:57 And they put a sidewalk in there.
11:36:01 By the city.
11:36:03 So if they can do it for that house they can certainly
11:36:05 do it around for the school children that are coming
11:36:06 on that street and going from that street going home.
11:36:10 Please look into this thing.
11:36:11 I got 38 days to go.
11:36:13 I would love to see something happen there.
11:36:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: As long as your pleading I met with
11:36:19 the southwest Port Tampa folks last Friday night,
11:36:22 okay?

11:36:22 And they specifically said that they have a rec center
11:36:25 down there which is called the south Port Tampa rec
11:36:28 center, now the Kwane Doster center.
11:36:33 They say there are no sidewalks from the Westshore
11:36:36 elementary school down to the rec center. The kids
11:36:38 are walking in the streets.
11:36:39 And my whole point is don't send that South Tampa
11:36:41 money somewhere else.
11:36:43 Build those sidewalks in southwest Port Tampa to the
11:36:46 rec center.
11:36:48 There are needs and priorities in each district of the
11:36:50 city.
11:36:50 Let the districts decide themselves where that money
11:36:53 should go.
11:36:55 >>CHAIRMAN: I am going to put my plea in, too.
11:36:58 3th Avenue, coming from the school.
11:37:07 When you drive behind, people creep along, and then
11:37:12 these sidewalks are every day, not one day, every day,
11:37:16 26th street to 3th Avenue.
11:37:18 We need sidewalks there for those students to stay out
11:37:20 of the streets.
11:37:21 >>FRANK REDDICK: I have got to add mine, too.

11:37:25 [ Laughter ]
11:37:27 We just want sidewalks in East Tampa.
11:37:30 We have a need for them all over East Tampa.
11:37:36 We need sidewalks.
11:37:37 And that is very important to us.
11:37:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Harrison, you need sidewalks, too?
11:37:42 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Everyone needs sidewalks.
11:37:43 It doesn't matter where you are in the city.
11:37:46 Roy, I think that this has been one of our more
11:37:48 successful programs.
11:37:50 And I think that I would caution us not to jump into
11:37:56 anything that's radically different.
11:37:58 Because I've seen when we walk, when you're out in
11:38:03 neighborhoods, you can see a new or redeveloped piece
11:38:06 of property, and there's a sidewalk in front and
11:38:08 doesn't match up.
11:38:11 To the older homes on either side.
11:38:12 A lot of people complain about that and they say it
11:38:14 doesn't make a lot of sense but the fact of the matter
11:38:16 is those blank spaces will be filled in.
11:38:20 And what we are doing is we are getting ahead of the
11:38:23 curve by requiring that.

11:38:24 I think it has been a successful program.
11:38:28 I agree with councilman Dingfelder that we need to
11:38:33 give great credence to the neighborhood leaders in
11:38:37 those particular districts because they know where
11:38:40 their most pressing needs for sidewalks are.
11:38:42 And it used to be that we had -- that all of the civic
11:38:44 association presidents had their list.
11:38:47 Here are our top 3 or 4 priority locations for
11:38:50 sidewalks.
11:38:51 Maybe we still do that.
11:38:52 We should be if worry not doing that.
11:38:54 Because they really know.
11:38:55 And out of that two miles a year, we make sure that
11:38:59 those civic associations are getting their priorities
11:39:04 met, and not necessarily, you know, what we think,
11:39:09 more of the global picture, the priorities ought to
11:39:11 be.
11:39:12 I think it's been a successful program.
11:39:14 And I wouldn't tinker too much with it.
11:39:17 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Mr. Harrison, not all neighborhoods
11:39:19 have associations.
11:39:20 I can tell you that this neighborhood that I'm talking

11:39:23 about doesn't have an association.
11:39:25 So what's happening is that there's a lot of
11:39:28 neighborhoods that don't have associations.
11:39:29 And even the one that's closest by doesn't know that
11:39:33 this particular area needs sidewalks.
11:39:37 So, you know, you can't please everyone but you have
11:39:41 to have priorities and you have got to have needs.
11:39:43 And I think that the ones we are talking about now are
11:39:46 priorities and needs.
11:39:49 >>> You all proved a point that sidewalks are
11:39:51 certainly important.
11:39:52 And we do reach out to the neighborhoods.
11:39:56 And we do it by prioritization within the
11:39:59 neighborhoods.
11:39:59 And when share that with their community leaders.
11:40:01 And a community that's not organized and try to gather
11:40:06 with some of their people as well.
11:40:08 We do that with Shannon Edge and the neighborhood
11:40:10 service group.
11:40:11 Again I come back to the issues to just suggest to you
11:40:13 the reduction was something that you asked us to look
11:40:16 at because the industry wants it cheaper and the

11:40:18 ability when they want to for a single-family home.
11:40:23 Again, we want everybody to build sidewalks where they
11:40:25 can build sidewalks.
11:40:29 And in closure it's just to get as much sidewalk
11:40:34 wherever we can.
11:40:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And I wholly support that because
11:40:39 I'm the one that made the motion to what the going
11:40:43 commercial rate is.
11:40:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you for that report.
11:40:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This is come back to us in a week?
11:40:49 >>CHAIRMAN: No, it's not.
11:40:50 Item 12.
11:40:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We need to schedule it to come
11:40:53 back.
11:40:56 Do it in a month.
11:41:01 >>MARY ALVAREZ: 39 days.
11:41:04 >>> Good morning, Madam Chair.
11:41:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I move to hear back -- excuse me,
11:41:10 Mr. LaMotte.
11:41:11 Didn't you say you were working on a compromise, and
11:41:14 you were going to come back to us with a different
11:41:18 structure in the near future?

11:41:20 >>> We would like to have it held for a short period
11:41:22 of time in order to consider the neighborhood's
11:41:25 concern, and --
11:41:26 >> 20 days?
11:41:28 >> A month would probably be appropriate to go through
11:41:30 every neighborhood.
11:41:30 >> I want to make sure that we move back around
11:41:33 otherwise it will get lost.
11:41:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So moved.
11:41:37 >> Second.
11:41:37 (Motion carried).
11:41:44 >>THE CLERK: I sent you a memo indicating that our
11:41:47 office did not receive any applications for the
11:41:53 architectural review commission.
11:42:05 One option is to wait the new ordinance due in
11:42:09 September mid to late March.
11:42:11 Also, we didn't receive an application for the
11:42:15 variance review board.
11:42:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Did not?
11:42:19 >>> Did not.
11:42:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. White said he applied.
11:42:23 >>THE CLERK: Well, right, we do have one for him.

11:42:27 That was for the city representative.
11:42:29 We do have that.
11:42:30 And that's in your packet.
11:42:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
11:42:34 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: We didn't receive an
11:42:38 application for an arborist.
11:42:39 Okay?
11:42:43 However, we did receive a list of arborists from Steve
11:42:50 Graham from parks and recreation on February 19th.
11:42:52 And if you would like, we can send letters to those
11:42:55 individuals asking if they are aware of someone that
11:43:01 would like to volunteer on their board.
11:43:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
11:43:07 We had a committee and we had some arborists on that.
11:43:09 You might want to contact those folks, as well as I
11:43:11 believe there's some association of certified
11:43:14 arborists.
11:43:15 So they would all be qualified.
11:43:20 That might be helpful.
11:43:21 The process that you outlined looks really good.
11:43:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry to interrupt.
11:43:26 I might have missed this discussion.

11:43:28 But just a remained theory next Tuesday, February 27,
11:43:31 9 a.m., you have a special discussion meeting
11:43:33 scheduled on the administration's proposed changes to
11:43:36 the A.R.C.
11:43:37 So that may be relevant.
11:43:41 To this discussion.
11:43:42 >>CHAIRMAN: So we need to wait till after that
11:43:43 discussion then.
11:43:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No, there's some other things.
11:43:49 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: As far as Mr. White, would you
11:43:51 like to act on that application?
11:43:57 >>SHAWN HARRISON: He's the only one?
11:43:58 >>> He's the only one.
11:43:59 >>GWEN MILLER: The deadline has passed?
11:44:02 >>> Yes.
11:44:02 There were 15.
11:44:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I move to approve and prepare a
11:44:10 resolution accordingly.
11:44:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We had such an you this --
11:44:16 enthusiastic response to the vacancies on City
11:44:18 Council.
11:44:18 I wonder if we have those people in our data bank as

11:44:20 far as letting them know about other community service
11:44:23 opportunities.
11:44:24 >>FRANK REDDICK: Is this a new appointee or has this
11:44:31 person served before?
11:44:35 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: He was on there before.
11:44:36 This would be a second term.
11:44:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: His first term is finishing and
11:44:47 he's going into his second term.
11:44:51 >>FRANK REDDICK: Each term is for how long?
11:44:53 >>> I believe it's for two years.
11:44:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Saul-Sena?
11:45:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's in the future that we use
11:45:04 the data bank of people who apply for the City Council
11:45:07 vacancies to make them aware of other public service
11:45:10 opportunities.
11:45:10 But I support the motion for Mr. White.
11:45:15 (Motion carried).
11:45:20 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: The other item has to do with
11:45:21 the cable advisory board.
11:45:29 I would ask you to refer to the memorandum from Mindy
11:45:32 Snyder that a motion be made to amend the ordinance to
11:45:35 sunset that committee.

11:45:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
11:45:40 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Why is that?
11:45:41 I have no idea.
11:45:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: She outlines it in her letter.
11:45:53 >>GWEN MILLER: It was the only the city appointees.
11:45:57 We need to sunset ours, too.
11:46:01 >> So moved.
11:46:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just a clarification.
11:46:03 Is that a motion to direct legal to do the appropriate
11:46:06 language?
11:46:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
11:46:08 All in favor of that motion say Aye.
11:46:10 Opposed, Nay.
11:46:11 (Motion carried).
11:46:12 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Lastly, I gave you a draft
11:46:15 copy of the board and committee procedures, if you can
11:46:20 take some time to review those at your leisure, and
11:46:23 provide us with any kind of comments.
11:46:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: In an effort to move the
11:46:29 improvements along, I would like to put this back on
11:46:32 our agenda in two weeks under staff report.
11:46:36 If we have any other changes.

11:46:38 I think it's really great and will probably just adopt
11:46:41 them.
11:46:41 But I think we need to see them again before we do
11:46:45 that.
11:46:47 My motion is he would again see this in two weeks.
11:46:53 >>CHAIRMAN: Motion dies for lack of second.
11:46:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Would somebody like to second?
11:46:57 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion say Aye.
11:46:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I don't think it's complicated.
11:47:07 >>SHAWN HARRISON: before Mr. Shelby gets going on
11:47:10 this, I'm not sure we ought not to put this off for 60
11:47:13 days.
11:47:13 We have a new council seated.
11:47:15 They may have a very different idea of what procedures
11:47:17 they want to put into place and I think he would could
11:47:19 probably get bogged down in a lot of detail discussing
11:47:23 this today.
11:47:23 I make a motion to reschedule this for 60 days.
11:47:26 >>FRANK REDDICK: Second.
11:47:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Why don't we put it for the first
11:47:31 meeting in April which I believe is a little longer
11:47:33 than 60 days.Saul-Sena

11:47:39 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Give them a chance to review this
11:47:42 stuff.
11:47:42 >>SHAWN HARRISON: At least past the first meeting in
11:47:45 April.
11:47:45 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That concern has also been raised to
11:47:47 me.
11:47:48 And it is my intention that when the new term begins
11:47:52 that the council does set aside some time to review
11:47:55 the rules of procedure and talk about the other
11:47:57 pertinent issues that need to be discussed relative to
11:48:00 the way it conducts business.
11:48:01 And whether council wishes to do that during a meeting
11:48:04 or half-day retreat it will be from a new term,
11:48:07 discussion to take place.
11:48:08 So if it can be brought back perhaps for a brief
11:48:11 discussion, maybe the first meeting, so at least
11:48:14 council can decide what kind of action, when it wishes
11:48:16 to take.
11:48:17 We don't have to discuss it then.
11:48:18 But at least -- I don't want to use the word
11:48:22 orientation.
11:48:23 I don't think that's appropriate.

11:48:25 So council can have a discussion over the manner in
11:48:28 which it does business.
11:48:29 Perhaps a review of the ethics, rules, and the gift
11:48:34 law, that the chapter 2 contemplates required.
11:48:42 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I change my motion to the first
11:48:45 meeting in April.
11:48:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
11:48:47 (Motion carried).
11:48:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Number 15.
11:48:51 Administration to talk about.
11:49:01 >>> Good morning, council.
11:49:03 A time when walking to school was a.
11:49:06 Everyday part of life.
11:49:07 Prior to 1970 when I had a little more hair about half
11:49:11 the students elected to bike to school.
11:49:13 Today however the environment is quite different.
11:49:15 Less than 15% of our population school trips are made
11:49:21 by walking or biking.
11:49:22 Most students are either driven to school, dropped off
11:49:26 to school, or in the chaps of high school drive
11:49:32 themselves.
11:49:32 That independency comes in.

11:49:34 And all of you that had teenagers understand their
11:49:37 spirit.
11:49:40 Also to get a motor vehicle behind them gives them a
11:49:43 little more strength and power.
11:49:45 We went out and actually looked at the nine high
11:49:49 schools within the City of Tampa limits, and they all
11:49:52 have controls around them at this current time with
11:49:55 the exception of Robinson had signalized
11:49:59 intersections, wanting the capability of warning
11:50:04 devices for those that want to walk.
11:50:06 Reality happens to be that the majority of this
11:50:07 population is driving to school or being driven to
11:50:10 school.
11:50:11 And that's quite different from our middle school to
11:50:14 our elementary schools.
11:50:15 And that's where the sieve route to schools program is
11:50:18 really dedicated to.
11:50:19 When we look around the city, again, the
11:50:22 transportation division is bound by the guidelines for
11:50:26 establishing school zones and crossing standards.
11:50:28 And we think we met those.
11:50:30 Additionally, devices at this time we didn't feel are

11:50:35 warranted.
11:50:36 We did meet with the Hillsborough school safety board
11:50:38 on February 1st and asked them if there's any
11:50:42 perceived problems in the vicinity of the high schools
11:50:44 or be if they knew anywhere that we needed to step up
11:50:49 controls.
11:50:49 Again they didn't feel they had any problems.
11:50:52 There haven't been any accidents over the last five
11:50:54 years surrounding any of the high schools.
11:50:58 There have been outside of our communities.
11:51:00 There were three incidents, I might point out, at
11:51:04 Plant High School, sometime between 2005, 2006,
11:51:06 dealing with a pedestrian at a crossing signal.
11:51:11 He actually tried to run across without using the
11:51:15 control.
11:51:16 Chamberlain back in March 2006, motorists ignored the
11:51:19 signal and actually struck a student.
11:51:21 But again the signal was in place.
11:51:24 Finally, in Hillsborough high school in January 2007,
11:51:27 a stunt was not at the crosswalk and was struck by an
11:51:31 oncoming motorist doing about 15 miles per hour while
11:51:34 she was on the cell phone, and crossing Florida

11:51:38 Avenue.
11:51:38 What we are really talking about is driver behavior.
11:51:41 We need prudent drivers.
11:51:42 We need drivers to behave in a manner in which they
11:51:45 are educated in.
11:51:46 I think the school board shared those feelings, and
11:51:49 that education engineering and enforcement is really
11:51:53 the effort we ought to concentrate on.
11:51:55 We are here to tell you that we did look at each of
11:51:57 the schools.
11:51:59 We have seen if there are additional devices.
11:52:02 He would can't find any more that we are recommend to
11:52:03 you.
11:52:04 We use static signage.
11:52:06 We use intersection as round the city that have
11:52:08 controls.
11:52:10 Again, I can show you some examples of where that's
11:52:13 done on the Elmo.
11:52:14 You can see the fluorescent green signage.
11:52:17 You can see the signalized intersection.
11:52:21 In this photo you can see the school flashes, the
11:52:24 speeds announced.

11:52:25 Again we are telling people where to cross.
11:52:27 It is down along on the actual signs.
11:52:30 So I think we have done our job.
11:52:32 We have done it well.
11:52:34 If there's any ideas or any improvements or if a
11:52:38 problem arises we will investigate it as soon as
11:52:39 possible when the event takes place, and hopefully be
11:52:43 there in advance, if there are any new technologies to
11:52:46 be used.
11:52:47 That's all I have to report doo.
11:52:50 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Good report.
11:52:51 You mentioned the safe routes to school program is an
11:52:54 excellent program funded by the state.
11:52:56 Do we have a link to that on the City of Tampa's web
11:52:58 site in the transportation department so that people
11:53:00 can find out what it is, and how they would go about
11:53:03 getting their particular schools on our list?
11:53:06 >>> It's an excellent idea.
11:53:08 I don't believe he would do at this time but we'll
11:53:10 certainly add it later this week.
11:53:12 >> I know it's definitely on the MPO's web site.
11:53:14 So let's put it on ours, too.

11:53:16 >>> Be glad to do that.
11:53:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
11:53:20 Interesting report.
11:53:23 Do we have money?
11:53:24 Assuming that you came to the conclusion that we
11:53:26 needed some additional of these green signs, flashing
11:53:31 lights and this sort of thing around the high schools.
11:53:33 And I didn't really hear too much about the middle
11:53:36 schools.
11:53:36 But let's just focus on the high schools for a second.
11:53:39 Do we have money in our budget for that type --
11:53:43 >>> We have money in our operating budget for static
11:53:46 signage.
11:53:46 Again --
11:53:48 >> I was talking, I guess, more about the flashing
11:53:50 lights like the one that is get activated and the
11:53:53 children are present, you know, during certain hours.
11:53:56 >>> We have some money for flashers as well.
11:53:59 We are putting in four dynamic speed signs to expand
11:54:02 the pilot program that we did last year, and four
11:54:05 schools were received this year under our traffic
11:54:09 calming money.

11:54:10 >> So how about the middle schools?
11:54:12 What's the status of those?
11:54:14 Did we explore those?
11:54:15 Are they full fully protected?
11:54:17 >>> I think I concentrated on the high schools because
11:54:19 that was the question at hand.
11:54:22 We do believe that they are protected and we are
11:54:24 adding additional devices this year.
11:54:29 The exact location, I don't have with me today because
11:54:32 that wasn't part of my charge.
11:54:33 >> Make sure we stay on top of that.
11:54:36 >>CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. LaMotte.
11:54:39 Appreciate that.
11:54:39 Item 16 need to move the resolution.
11:54:41 >> So moved.
11:54:43 >> Second.
11:54:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Question.
11:54:50 The reason that was held up, Mr. Shelby, you indicated
11:54:54 you thought this was somehow tied to the rezoning from
11:54:56 several months ago, and I don't know, you had a
11:54:59 question about it more than anything.
11:55:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, to refresh your

11:55:05 recollection, this does relate to a rezoning that
11:55:07 council did approve at 4410 west Boy Scout.
11:55:11 Council at the time should have included a partial
11:55:15 vacation of these.
11:55:16 I had an opportunity to meet with staff to discuss the
11:55:17 issue.
11:55:18 That didn't take place.
11:55:19 This was contemplated at the time council did pass the
11:55:23 rezoning.
11:55:23 So I just wanted to make an assurance or have
11:55:26 assurance it was not a knew entitlement.
11:55:29 >> Consistent with the rezoning that we already
11:55:30 approved.
11:55:31 >>> That's my understanding, yes.
11:55:33 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
11:55:34 Question on the motion?
11:55:42 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Verizon and Bright House have
11:55:46 addressed issues.
11:55:47 >>> It's my understanding that was part of the
11:55:49 material gathered by the staff.
11:55:50 >>CHAIRMAN: Motion and second.
11:55:51 (Motion carried).

11:55:52 Item number 17.
11:55:53 Mr. Smith.
11:56:02 >>> Darrell Smith, chief of staff.
11:56:04 Monitoring the council meeting this morning, thought I
11:56:07 might need to come over and give Roy agent bit of a
11:56:10 breather here.
11:56:11 He's been leading the charge for us this morning and
11:56:15 bringing knowledge of all areas of transportation in
11:56:18 the city so we appreciate his support.
11:56:19 I'm here to report on the city military grant program.
11:56:24 And the military grant program was developed to
11:56:26 provide financial assistance to active duty military
11:56:29 personnel who have served in a combat zone, and it
11:56:34 provides a property tax reimbursement in the in the
11:56:38 amount of $1500, a grant in that amount, and the
11:56:42 program was unusually developed by the county through
11:56:44 the Veterans Affairs office.
11:56:48 And it has requirements of being an active duty
11:56:52 military member serving at least 45 days in a
11:56:58 designated combat zone.
11:57:02 In order to apply for the grant the military member
11:57:06 has to live in the area of Hillsborough County, has to

11:57:10 reside in homesteaded property, and has to pay the
11:57:17 property taxes for the applicable year that the
11:57:20 application is provided for the grant.
11:57:24 Unusually Hillsborough County funded the entire
11:57:26 military grant program when it was first developed in
11:57:30 calendar year 2005, which was fiscal year 2006.
11:57:36 And it was initially approved by Hillsborough County
11:57:41 late in the calendar year 2005, so late that the city
11:57:44 did not have time to adequately look at the program
11:57:48 and include it in our FY-06 budget.
11:57:52 As a result, Hillsborough County funded the entire
11:57:54 program for 2005.
11:57:58 Subsequently in August of 2006, the county advised the
11:58:02 city that it would be our responsibility to pick up
11:58:06 funding for the applicants that resided within the
11:58:10 City of Tampa, beginning in FY-07.
11:58:15 We included $50,000 in the FY-07 budget.
11:58:21 And we began working with Hillsborough County to
11:58:24 develop an interlocal agreement with them on how the
11:58:28 program would be executed or how it would be
11:58:32 administered.
11:58:33 And basically, we are using Hillsborough County and

11:58:36 the Veterans Affairs office as the primary office of
11:58:41 administering the program, because those what they do
11:58:43 day in and day out.
11:58:44 The city does not have a compatible office.
11:58:48 And rather than us try to set up something that would
11:58:50 duplicate that capability, we are working with the
11:58:54 county, and in effect paying our own way for the
11:58:58 applicants that do reside within the city.
11:59:01 Now, this also applies to the two other cities in the
11:59:04 county, Temple Terrace is participating in the
11:59:08 program.
11:59:08 I'm not sure what the status of Plant City is at this
11:59:12 point.
11:59:13 The interlocal agreement has been with Temple Terrace
11:59:18 and Plant City as well as the City of Tampa.
11:59:20 And what we envision in the interlocal agreement is
11:59:23 that an eligible military applicant would pay the
11:59:27 property taxes, normally if that happens in November,
11:59:31 December time frame, or at least that's when they are
11:59:34 billed, and the applicant would subsequently apply for
11:59:38 this military tax grant through the Veterans Affairs
11:59:41 office.

11:59:42 And the county would process the application, would
11:59:45 verify that the military member did in fact serve the
11:59:48 required length of time, and a designated combat zone,
11:59:52 and if all of the eligibility requirements were
11:59:56 accomplished, the county would pay the applicant
11:59:59 directly.
12:00:01 And then the city would then reimburse the county for
12:00:03 that grant payment
12:00:10 In addition the city would be charged $40 per grant to
12:00:13 cover the processing charge by the Veterans Affairs
12:00:15 office.
12:00:20 Pending the development of the interlocal agreement
12:00:21 the county, Veterans Affairs office, has been
12:00:23 collecting applications from residents of the City of
12:00:27 Tampa that satisfies the eligibility criteria.
12:00:32 Since October 1.
12:00:34 Actually, since the tax bills were delivered in
12:00:37 November.
12:00:39 And the applicants have been advised from the Veterans
12:00:41 Affairs office that payment would be pending approval
12:00:51 of the interlocal agreement by the City of Tampa and
12:00:53 the Board of County Commissioners so it's being held

12:00:56 as far as any payment until that agreement has been
12:00:59 processed and approved by both organizations.
12:01:04 Another this point, we have entered our final phase of
12:01:07 coordination on the interlocal agreement with the
12:01:10 city.
12:01:12 We anticipate bringing that agreement to council on
12:01:15 March 15th in anticipation of it going before the
12:01:19 Board of County Commissioners on March 21st along
12:01:22 with the city of Temple Terrace.
12:01:24 And with that, if we can maintain that time line, we
12:01:27 would see that the payments would come out to
12:01:30 eligibility -- the members that -- members that are
12:01:34 eligible during the months of April or May.
12:01:37 (Bell sounds)
12:01:38 Currently the county has processed 29 qualified
12:01:40 applicants who reside within the City of Tampa for the
12:01:45 calendar year 2006.
12:01:48 That's across the $48,000, which includes an
12:01:51 administrative fee of $40 per grant application.
12:01:56 The county projects an additional 10 grants can be
12:01:59 anticipated for the remainder of 2006 calendar year.
12:02:03 And that will bring the project -- projected total

12:02:06 cost to $63,000.
12:02:09 Based on our budgeted amount of $50,000.
12:02:11 We will be coming back to council asking for a budget
12:02:14 adjustment raising that to an adequate amount to cover
12:02:19 the applications that we have.
12:02:22 That budget resolution will be delayed until we have
12:02:24 council -- council approval at the interlocal and
12:02:27 board of county commissioner approval at the
12:02:29 interlocal, also.
12:02:32 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Number one, it's past 12 so I would
12:02:34 like to make a motion that we continue working until
12:02:36 we wrap up the morning session.
12:02:38 >> Second.
12:02:39 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: I am actually going to have to
12:02:46 leave in a couple of minutes but have no objection to
12:02:49 everybody going forward.
12:02:51 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Good report, Mr. Smith. This is
12:02:53 exactly where I think council wanted to be when we
12:02:56 took this issue up a couple years ago, taking part
12:02:58 with the county, they are administering, we are
12:03:02 reimbursing them for their costs.
12:03:03 It seems this thing is running as smoothly as it can

12:03:06 possibly run.
12:03:07 Good work.
12:03:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I agree.
12:03:10 And I was alarmed that when sort of had this gap in
12:03:14 time where our servicemen and women who live in the
12:03:18 city limits were being turned away.
12:03:20 That's the phone call I got to my office.
12:03:22 I'm glad to hear that everyone though we do have a
12:03:24 little bit of a gap we are going to go retroactive and
12:03:27 fill in that gap.
12:03:28 That's correct, Mr. Smith?
12:03:30 >>DARRELL SMITH: Yes, sir.
12:03:32 >> I think it's a great program.
12:03:33 I'll commend chairman Norman over there because I
12:03:36 think he started it.
12:03:37 We jumped on board very quickly.
12:03:39 This is really our community's thank you to our
12:03:41 servicemen and women who are serving overseas.
12:03:44 And I think it's great.
12:03:45 And I commend you and your service to this country.
12:03:50 And I know how much -- how hard you are working on
12:03:53 this program as well.

12:03:54 Thank you.
12:04:03 >>DARRELL SMITH: Yes, ma'am.
12:04:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Number 18.
12:04:07 We have a motion and second.
12:04:09 (Motion carried).
12:04:10 We now go to our item.
12:04:13 Anybody want to request reconsideration on legislative
12:04:16 matters?
12:04:24 >>> Graham Carothers, here in Tampa.
12:04:27 Very quickly.
12:04:27 I'm here on file Z 06-71.
12:04:33 >> What number is it?
12:04:34 >>> It's not on today's.
12:04:35 It was on last weak.
12:04:38 At which time council scheduled a hearing on a pending
12:04:44 petition for rezoning.
12:04:45 This is for the Hyde Park village property for April
12:04:48 12th.
12:04:49 That will require my client to go before the A.R.C. in
12:04:53 just a couple of weeks, anticipating needing a little
12:04:57 more time in order to make some changes and revisions
12:04:59 requested by staff and by the neighborhood folks.

12:05:03 We would like to ask the hearing be rescheduled till
12:05:07 the June 14th meeting.
12:05:08 >> So moved.
12:05:10 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Second.
12:05:14 >>> 6 p.m.
12:05:15 (Motion Carried).
12:05:15 >>GWEN MILLER: We go to audience portion.
12:05:17 Anyone in the public that wants to speak on any item
12:05:19 on the agenda that is not set for public hearing.
12:05:26 >>> Al Steenson, president of the Gandy civic
12:05:28 association.
12:05:30 I would like to speak very briefly to item 9 that was
12:05:33 discussed this morning.
12:05:35 On the sidewalk issue, and Roy did mention the fact
12:05:38 that they were wanting input from the neighborhoods.
12:05:42 And I can assure you that the e-mail I got last night
12:05:46 at 5:34 in the evening. That doesn't give us much
12:05:50 time to get to our members to discuss the issue with
12:05:55 them for an item that's going to be discussed this
12:05:57 morning at -- well, it's 9:00.
12:06:00 At least 10:30.
12:06:02 And then the other item is item 10.

12:06:04 And I'm sorry that D.O.T. is not here to defend
12:06:07 themselves but the question was asked regarding
12:06:10 transit.
12:06:11 Now, three yourself ago, when we were having such a
12:06:16 long discussion about this 30-foot median strip, and
12:06:19 D.O.T. kept saying, well, we need that median trip for
12:06:23 big trucks to make U turns and so forth and so on, and
12:06:26 my comment, you don't let them make U turns.
12:06:30 And I said, let's get this thing on the record and
12:06:34 commissioner Cathy castor, who was then serving on the
12:06:37 MPO, did get the former secretary Ken Harvin on the
12:06:44 record, that this 30-foot median strip is not for U
12:06:49 turns, it's for future expansion.
12:06:51 Now, I tried to find the transcript last night back on
12:06:54 MPO, but you can't go back there three years.
12:06:57 But I just want to get that in the record.
12:06:59 You did ask the question about transit.
12:07:01 This 30-foot median strip, although it upsets a lot of
12:07:05 people, is there not for U turns, it's for future
12:07:09 expansion.
12:07:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Mr. Steenson.
12:07:14 Next.

12:07:16 >>MOSES KNOTT, JR.: I reside at 2902 East Ellicott
12:07:25 street.
12:07:26 Three nights a week.
12:07:27 And I just thank God for his grace and his mercy.
12:07:35 The opportunity for being here.
12:07:37 As a matter of fact it's a big blessing.
12:07:40 And I know my days is getting numbered.
12:07:43 But one thing I want to talk about this morning.
12:07:46 You all talk about number 3.
12:07:48 I want to speak on number 15.
12:07:50 And number 9 about the sidewalks.
12:07:52 But that number 3 this morning you all talk about --
12:07:58 you know, I didn't realize that we got, I always talk
12:08:02 about got two lawyers up there.
12:08:04 I didn't know we had three.
12:08:06 I was sitting home.
12:08:07 And we got throw lawyers on City Council now.
12:08:12 There should be no mistake.
12:08:13 There should be no nothing up there.
12:08:15 But they were talking about put up a sign where people
12:08:20 with see, get out of here, you all, something is going
12:08:23 to happen.

12:08:24 And I was sitting back there thinking and the law is
12:08:32 in the Bible, Romans and all of that.
12:08:35 The law is in the Bible.
12:08:36 But I would say quit sinning so much.
12:08:40 I never realized that I thought about the sign until
12:08:43 you all spent all that money down at Gene's Bar, you
12:08:46 all figured you would move the Gene's Bar the sin
12:08:49 would move out of my part of town which helped a lot.
12:08:52 But I told you all last week about the gambling.
12:08:57 But I sinned myself but you cut way back.
12:09:08 And sickness, storms, tornado, earth quakes, droughts,
12:09:16 floods.
12:09:16 You can't quit.
12:09:22 As long as you got that flesh on your body, you are
12:09:25 going to sin.
12:09:26 I wanted to say that.
12:09:28 The black people in the church say they don't have but
12:09:30 three sins. One night a lady told me, Mr. Knott, tell
12:09:31 me what them three sins is.
12:09:32 And one lady told me, drinking liquor, and cussing.
12:09:40 The three sins.
12:09:43 I said if you take a five gallon bucket of sand, every

12:09:47 grain is a sin.
12:09:49 Over in my part of town over there, this town is
12:09:55 flooded with people gambling.
12:10:03 Food stamp money, everything being gambled over there.
12:10:09 Got everything.
12:10:10 But all I want to say, you know, as I said, I know my
12:10:14 days are numbered.
12:10:15 But I want people to learn to cut back on their sin
12:10:18 thing.
12:10:19 I mean, it's a disaster.
12:10:21 Oh, this sidewalk thing.
12:10:25 Mary, I know you talked about you might have to go but
12:10:29 I wish you could stay here.
12:10:32 The civic associations and neighborhoods, you know.
12:10:36 In the city of Sarasota, what they concentrate on,
12:10:45 whose house need to be painted, and tell you how to
12:10:53 paint your carports.
12:10:54 (Bell sounds).
12:10:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else like to speak?
12:10:58 We are going to go to our ordinances for first
12:11:00 reading.
12:11:00 Mr. Reddick, would you read item 19, please?

12:11:03 >>FRANK REDDICK: Move an ordinance amending ordinance
12:11:09 2005-56 vacating, closing, discontinuing, and
12:11:12 abandoning all of those certain rights-of-way known as
12:11:14 Wesley Drive and Langhorne Court lying off of Tampa
12:11:19 Palms Boulevard west in the map of Tampa Palms area 2,
12:11:24 7-E unit 2, a subdivision within the Tampa Palms
12:11:28 community development district in the City of Tampa,
12:11:31 Hillsborough County Florida amending section 3-D of
12:11:34 said ordinance to allow the petitioner addition time
12:11:36 to comply with ordinance conditions providing an
12:11:38 effective date.
12:11:38 >> Second.
12:11:40 (Motion Carried).
12:11:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move answer ordinance by the City
12:11:54 of Tampa renaming and designating several private
12:11:58 streets within the University of South Tampa USF lying
12:12:02 north of Fowler Avenue south of Fletcher east of Bruce
12:12:05 B. Downs and west of 50th street in the City of
12:12:08 Tampa herein mentioned providing an effective date.
12:12:10 (Motion carried).
12:12:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Parks and recreation.
12:12:14 >>FRANK REDDICK: Move 21 through 23.

12:12:18 >> Second.
12:12:18 (Motion carried).
12:12:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Public works, John Dingfelder.
12:12:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move 24, 25,.
12:12:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Finance.
12:12:31 Linda Saul-Sena.
12:12:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move 26 and 27.
12:12:35 (Motion carried).
12:12:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Building and zoning.
12:12:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move resolutions 28 through 34 and
12:12:41 I have a comment.
12:12:41 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
12:12:43 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
12:12:45 Opposed.
12:12:45 (Motion carried).
12:12:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My comment is on number 28, we are
12:12:51 spending money that has been allocated in the fiscal
12:12:53 year 2005.
12:12:55 And so I would like to make a motion that in 60 days
12:12:58 we have a report from Sharon west, our housing
12:13:00 director, on how we are doing with catching up with
12:13:03 spending money that we need to be spending on creating

12:13:05 housing opportunities.
12:13:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I second that and I'm sorry I am
12:13:12 not going to be here for that presentation.
12:13:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: you can come back.
12:13:20 >> No, I don't think so.
12:13:21 Because there has been some lengthy discussions with
12:13:24 this thing.
12:13:27 And the people that are applying for these down
12:13:39 payment loans, it's taken take long to approve that.
12:13:42 So I second that.
12:13:42 (Motion carried).
12:13:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Transportation, Mr. Shawn Harrison.
12:13:46 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Move items 35 and 36.
12:13:50 >> Second.
12:13:50 (Motion carried).
12:13:51 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Move to set item 37.
12:13:56 >> Second.
12:13:57 (Motion carried).
12:13:57 >>GWEN MILLER: We now go to our public hearing for
12:14:00 second reading.
12:14:01 Anyone in the public that's going to speak on item 38,
12:14:05 39 or 40, please stand and raise your right hand.

12:14:10 (Oath administered by Clerk).
12:14:11 (Motion carried).
12:14:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: With regard to today's hearings has
12:14:27 there been anything that has been available for public
12:14:30 inspection at council's office?
12:14:32 Have they been presented to the clerk today?
12:14:33 Madam clerk, do you have things to receive and file?
12:14:37 You have nothing?
12:14:38 Okay.
12:14:38 Again, with regard to ex parte communications,
12:14:41 council, please disclose any he can party
12:14:43 communications prior to the vote.
12:14:44 Lastly very briefly, ladies and gentlemen, when you
12:14:47 state your name, please reaffirm that you have been
12:14:49 sworn.
12:14:50 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I rode up in the elevator with the
12:14:53 attorney for one of these petitioners.
12:14:56 When didn't talk about anything.
12:14:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
12:15:00 wants to speak on item 38?
12:15:02 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Do you have a sense of humor.
12:15:12 >>> Good afternoon. I'm Bob bulk in the matter of V

12:15:18 07-01.
12:15:19 Madam Chair, council.
12:15:23 After your approval there was one lingering issue
12:15:25 regarding AmSouth to make a good faith effort to
12:15:28 install a stop sign prosecutor sunset to Mr.
12:15:30 Steenson's request.
12:15:32 We did it.
12:15:33 >>CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
12:15:34 We appreciate that.
12:15:35 Would anyone else like to speak?
12:15:37 >> Mover to close.
12:15:37 >> Second.
12:15:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Hold on.
12:15:45 >>> Al Steenson: He's actually correct.
12:15:48 I went by yesterday and saw it.
12:15:50 If all petitioners were easy to deal with, our job as
12:15:53 community leaders would be a whole lot better.
12:15:56 Put that on the record.
12:15:57 Thank you.
12:15:58 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to close.
12:15:59 >> So moved.
12:16:00 >> Second.

12:16:00 (Motion carried).
12:16:02 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I move to adopt the following
12:16:05 ordinance upon second reading, an ordinance approving
12:16:07 a special use permit S-2 approving a drive-through
12:16:10 bank in a CI commercial intensive and CG commercial
12:16:14 general zoning district in the general us have
12:16:15 interest of 4418 West Gandy Boulevard in the city of
12:16:18 Tampa, Florida, and as more particularly described in
12:16:21 section 1 hereof providing an effective date.
12:16:24 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
12:16:26 Vote and record.
12:16:31 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
12:16:51 Fletcher being absent at vote.
12:16:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone in the public want to speak on
12:16:55 item 39?
12:16:56 >> Move to close.
12:16:56 >> Second.
12:16:57 (Motion carried).
12:16:58 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Move to adopt the following
12:17:00 ordinance upon second reading, an ordinance rezoning
12:17:02 property in the general vicinity of 5200 west Tyson
12:17:05 Avenue in the city of Tampa, Florida and more

12:17:06 particularly described in section 1 from zoning
12:17:08 district classifications IG industrial general and IH
12:17:12 industrial heavy to PD planned development, private
12:17:15 Yacht Club, providing an effective date.
12:17:16 >> I have a motion and second.
12:17:18 Vote and record.
12:17:23 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with Fletcher
12:17:29 being absent at vote.
12:17:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm supportive of this.
12:17:35 I think it's great.
12:17:36 But it takes a public facility, what has been publicly
12:17:40 available Yacht Club and makes it private.
12:17:42 These are going to be yacht condos.
12:17:44 And it raises the question about whether the city is
12:17:48 monitoring public access to the water in terms of
12:17:51 marina facility.
12:17:52 So I would like to make a request that in May --
12:17:58 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Oh, good.
12:17:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: At 9:00 May 3rd, the number of
12:18:08 publicly available boat slips and what the projection
12:18:10 is for the future and are we the city thinking ahead
12:18:13 in terms of creating additional opportunities for the

12:18:16 local boating public to have slips either through our
12:18:20 own facilities or the private sector.
12:18:22 It seems to me that as a value of the property on the
12:18:26 water increases this will be a continuing concern, and
12:18:29 maybe we should get ahead of the curve.
12:18:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: As the seconder of your motion I
12:18:34 think I'll clarify it's not just slips in the water
12:18:36 but in this case it's high and dry slips as well.
12:18:40 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
12:18:41 (Motion carried).
12:18:42 Is there anyone in the --
12:18:49 >>CLERK: I didn't get the second.
12:18:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I was the second on Mrs.
12:18:54 Saul-Sena's motion.
12:18:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
12:18:57 wants to speak on item 40?
12:18:59 >> Motion and second.
12:19:00 [Motion carried]
12:19:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move the following ordinance upon
12:19:05 second reading, an ordinance rezoning property in the
12:19:07 general vicinity ever 109 west Genesee street in the
12:19:11 city of Tampa, Florida and more particularly described

12:19:12 from zoning district classifications RS-50 residential
12:19:15 single family to PD planned development single-family
12:19:18 detached residential, providing an effective date.
12:19:20 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
12:19:22 Vote and record.
12:19:24 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with Fletcher
12:19:33 being absent at vote.
12:19:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 41.
12:19:36 Petitioner is asking that this be withdrawn.
12:19:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to strike 41 from the agenda.
12:19:43 >> Second.
12:19:43 (Motion carried).
12:19:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that's
12:19:47 going to speak on items 42 through 45?
12:19:49 Would you please stand and raise your right hand.
12:19:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Do we to open these?
12:19:57 (Oath administered by Clerk) we need to open those
12:20:07 items.
12:20:08 >> So moved.
12:20:10 >> Second.
12:20:11 (Motion carried).
12:20:12 >>REBECCA KERT: On 42 it looks like we don't have

12:20:16 staff available.
12:20:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Why don't we do it at 5:01 tonight?
12:20:22 No, wait.
12:20:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just for clarification, that's both
12:20:28 items 42 and 43 continued for one week till 10 a.m.?
12:20:32 >> Yes.
12:20:32 >>SHAWN HARRISON: These are always noncontroversial.
12:20:36 I have never remembered one not happening.
12:20:39 Could we just do these based on the written report or
12:20:44 something like that?
12:20:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second the motion to reconsider our
12:20:48 motion for continuance.
12:20:49 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion to --
12:20:52 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Continue to next woke and just do it
12:20:54 based on evidence in the record.
12:20:56 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If it's council's desire to move them
12:20:58 forward, this is a first reading.
12:21:00 It will come back in two weeks for second reading and
12:21:02 adoption of public hearing.
12:21:06 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second to do the
12:21:07 first reading.
12:21:08 All in favor of that motion say Aye.

12:21:10 Opposed, Nay.
12:21:10 (Motion carried).
12:21:11 Is there anyone in the public that wants to speak on
12:21:13 item 42.
12:21:15 >> Move to close.
12:21:16 >> Second.
12:21:16 (Motion carried).
12:21:16 >>CHAIRMAN: Mr. Reddick, are you ready to read 42?
12:21:21 >>FRANK REDDICK: Yes.
12:21:26 42.
12:21:27 Move an ordinance approving a historic preservation
12:21:30 property tax exemption application relative to the
12:21:32 restoration, renovation or rehabilitation of certain
12:21:35 property owned by Tomybor, LLC, located at 2211 east
12:21:43 third Avenue in Tampa, Florida in the Ybor City
12:21:46 historic district based upon certain findings
12:21:48 providing for notice to the property appraiser of
12:21:50 Hillsborough County providing for severability,
12:21:52 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict,
12:21:54 providing an effective date.
12:21:55 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
12:21:57 (Motion carried).

12:21:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
12:22:00 wants to speak on item 43?
12:22:02 >> Move to close.
12:22:02 >> Second.
12:22:03 (Motion carried).
12:22:03 >>CHAIRMAN: Mr. Dingfelder.
12:22:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I move the following ordinance on
12:22:09 first reading, an ordinance approving an historic
12:22:12 preservation property tax exemption application
12:22:14 relative to the restoration, renovation or
12:22:16 rehabilitation of certain property owned by royal
12:22:18 Frank LLC located at 1202 North Franklin Street,
12:22:22 Tampa, Florida in the north Franklin street historic
12:22:26 district based upon certain findings providing for
12:22:28 notice to the property appraiser of Hillsborough
12:22:31 County providing for severability, providing for
12:22:33 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
12:22:35 effective date.
12:22:36 (Motion Carried).
12:22:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just a reminder for the public.
12:22:39 These will be coming back for second public hearing
12:22:41 and adoption on March 8th at 9:30.

12:22:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 44 is a continued public
12:22:50 hearing.
12:22:52 44.
12:22:58 >> Phil Schultz, Land Development Coordination.
12:23:00 I have been sworn.
12:23:01 At the request of council, the petitioner has modified
12:23:03 the site plan which is before you here this afternoon.
12:23:08 In addition, we would ask that the City Council for
12:23:10 the record verbalize the zoning administrator's
12:23:14 support for using the existing 6-foot fence that is on
12:23:21 the site as part of 27130 to screen the adjacent
12:23:26 residential uses primarily because of the vegetation
12:23:29 types that are along there.
12:23:30 We do not want to disrupt those or impact those in any
12:23:32 way.
12:23:33 We would like your support on that as well.
12:23:36 Modifications everybody made as requested.
12:23:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Is petitioner here?
12:23:40 Are you going to speak?
12:23:41 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Move to add that, what was just
12:23:44 stated on the record.
12:23:45 Do you want it on the site plan?

12:23:50 >>> The administrative variance.
12:23:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
12:23:53 (Motion carried).
12:23:54 >>CHAIRMAN: Petitioner, do you want to say anything?
12:23:57 You don't have to if you don't want to.
12:23:59 Okay.
12:23:59 If S there anyone in the public that wants to speak on
12:24:02 item 44?
12:24:03 >> Move to close.
12:24:04 >> Second.
12:24:04 (Motion carried).
12:24:06 >>MARY ALVAREZ: An ordinance rezoning property in the
12:24:09 general vicinity of 2305 west Sligh Avenue in the city
12:24:13 of Tampa, Florida and more particularly described in
12:24:15 section 1 from zoning district classifications RS-50
12:24:18 residential single family to RO residential office
12:24:22 providing an effective date.
12:24:23 >> We have a motion and second.
12:24:24 (Motion carried).
12:24:25 Item 45 is a continued public hearing.
12:24:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I have been informed that
12:24:32 unfortunately the petitioner's representative for item

12:24:34 number 45 left chambers at noon with the understanding
12:24:38 that council would be reconvening.
12:24:41 I don't know --
12:24:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Continue till tonight at 5:30.
12:24:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I believe we start at six.
12:24:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Continue till six.
12:24:53 >>> If I may, Madam Chair.
12:24:55 The petitioner has made all the corrections to the
12:24:57 site plan as requested by City Council and there are
12:25:00 no further objections.
12:25:01 Again, however, we did place on our previous report
12:25:06 our request for waiver which was inadvertently omitted
12:25:09 by the petitioner, and again when would like council
12:25:11 to agree to allow them to use the pure and lintel PVC
12:25:19 fence for the mangled tree that I understand from
12:25:21 council person Alvarez that's one of the mangoes, and
12:25:27 that type of fencing would protect the vegetation.
12:25:33 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Last known mangoes.
12:25:35 A Jimmy buffet song.
12:25:37 >>> I also have a letter of support that came in the
12:25:39 other day that had 20-some that we both received it
12:25:44 So I don't think there's anything else to add.

12:25:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I withdraw my motion.
12:25:52 >>CHAIRMAN: Entertain a motion to put those statements
12:25:54 on there.
12:25:55 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Move to allow continue existing
12:25:59 fence --
12:26:02 >>> Excuse me, let me correct you.
12:26:04 It's a new 6-foot pure and lintel 6-foot PVC fence
12:26:11 primarily because of the root system of the Mango
12:26:14 tree.
12:26:15 >>SHAWN HARRISON: To allow the new fence.
12:26:18 (Motion Carried).
12:26:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If council wishes to waive
12:26:21 petitioner's appearance, again this will be coming
12:26:23 back for a second reading on adoption of public
12:26:25 hearing on ma 8th at 9:30.
12:26:27 If council wishes to move this forward.
12:26:29 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Moved.
12:26:33 >>CHAIRMAN: Motion and second.
12:26:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That would require first reading.
12:26:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the in the public to
12:26:41 speak on item 45?
12:26:42 >> Move to close.

12:26:44 >> Wait.
12:26:45 >>MARTIN SHELBY: closed the public hearing.
12:26:49 We are moving rather quickly.
12:26:51 What's happening.
12:26:51 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of that motion say Aye.
12:26:54 Mr. Harrison.
12:26:54 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Move an ordinance rezoning property
12:26:55 in the general vicinity of 1202 North Armenia Avenue
12:27:02 in the city of Tampa, Florida, and more particularly
12:27:02 described in section 1 from RS-50 residential single
12:27:05 family to PD planned development residential
12:27:07 professional office, providing an effective date.
12:27:10 >>CHAIRMAN: We have a motion and second.
12:27:11 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
12:27:12 (Motion carried).
12:27:13 >>> Thanks for the consideration of the Mango tree.
12:27:18 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And for the public's information,
12:27:19 this will be heard again at a second public hearing
12:27:23 and adoption, public hearing on March 8th at 9:30
12:27:27 a.m.
12:27:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 46 to be continued to March
12:27:31 22nd.

12:27:32 >> So moved.
12:27:33 >> Second.
12:27:33 (Motion carried).
12:27:33 >>GWEN MILLER: We now go to information from council
12:27:36 members.
12:27:37 Ms. Saul-Sena, do you have anything?
12:27:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: There was a rally held in Sunset
12:27:44 Park on Sunday morning.
12:27:46 The neighbors want information on when the city is
12:27:48 going to move ahead with the plans.
12:27:49 I spoke to the administration and administration said
12:27:55 they would be responding in April.
12:27:57 So --
12:28:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: There's a date already on our
12:28:02 calendar.
12:28:02 We need to announce that date.
12:28:04 Does the clerk know that date?
12:28:09 >> I thought perhaps they should come down here but
12:28:11 they said --
12:28:16 >> Mats a muck rally?
12:28:19 >> Dredging the canal.
12:28:21 >> Secondly, I would like a report in two weeks on the

12:28:25 possibility of changing the yield sign at the Bayshore
12:28:29 entrance to the Davis Islands bridge to a stop sign.
12:28:33 >>CHAIRMAN: Can we get that in a written report, two
12:28:38 weeks?
12:28:39 Written report.
12:28:40 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Written report.
12:28:41 >>CHAIRMAN: Motion and second.
12:28:42 (Motion carried).
12:28:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Lastly, I would like the
12:28:45 administration to share with us, and I'll let them
12:28:50 choose the time frame, but I want them to be looking
12:28:52 at the fiscal impact of the proposed reduction.
12:28:57 If when don't have property taxes and we have some
12:28:59 kind of sales tax, how that will affect the City of
12:29:01 Tampa.
12:29:02 I'm sure they are thinking about this.
12:29:04 And I would like to hear back from them within the
12:29:05 next few weeks.
12:29:07 I'll say the second week in April.
12:29:12 I don't assume they will move more quickly from that.
12:29:16 >> Second.
12:29:16 >>CHAIRMAN: Motion and second.

12:29:17 (Motion carried).
12:29:18 Mr. Harrison?
12:29:20 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Just to follow up on what Mrs.
12:29:22 Saul-Sena said, I think it's prudent to be prepared.
12:29:25 I cannot imagine that not passing.
12:29:29 If it does make it on its way to a statewide ballot.
12:29:32 So I think that all local governments will have to be
12:29:35 prepared for that date.
12:29:36 Thank you for bringing that up.
12:29:38 >> Will that be Constitutional referendum?
12:29:42 >> Yes.
12:29:42 >> Ms. Alvarez, do you have anything?
12:29:44 >> Nothing.
12:29:44 >> Mr. Dingfelder?
12:29:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just a few things.
12:29:47 One, the ethanol plant which has been in the newspaper
12:29:49 quite a bit.
12:29:50 I went down to the port authority yesterday and urged
12:29:52 the port authority to slow down.
12:29:54 I'm proud that Mayor Iorio and commissioner Ferlita
12:29:58 voted to do exactly that.
12:30:00 But unfortunately they were outvoted 5-2 or something

12:30:03 like that.
12:30:04 So the port authority went forward with this.
12:30:06 Regardless, I want -- my motion is to get a report
12:30:09 from our staff including Tampa foyer and rescue, the
12:30:12 water department, hopefully somebody who knows
12:30:17 something about health and the odor issue, maybe the
12:30:20 county health department, and our legal department on
12:30:23 all of the issues surrounding the proposed ethanol
12:30:26 plant including odor, air pollution, the explosion and
12:30:31 fire issues, and also the water consumption issues.
12:30:35 Davis Island and Harbor Island residents are extremely
12:30:38 concerned with B this.
12:30:41 It has to be an in-person report and I'll say two
12:30:44 weeks.
12:30:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
12:30:47 (Motion carried).
12:30:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And then the Humane Society of
12:30:50 Tampa Bay is the recipient of a $600 that you grant
12:30:55 from the national ASPCA, and they have asked me to
12:30:58 come and present -- come to their thing.
12:31:02 I would like to present a commendation to them for
12:31:04 their good work.

12:31:05 That's this Sunday.
12:31:07 >> Second.
12:31:07 (Motion carried).
12:31:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have got four Boy Scouts who are
12:31:12 achieving the rank of eagle scout.
12:31:14 They are as follows, and I'll present their
12:31:17 commendations at their ceremonies.
12:31:19 Eric Paul SHELLEMAN.
12:31:23 Patrick Sullivan.
12:31:25 Joseph Parker.
12:31:26 And Evan hero, who is my hero.
12:31:30 And that's my motion.
12:31:34 >> Motion and second.
12:31:34 (Motion carried).
12:31:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The last thing is, Linda, you
12:31:38 scheduled a workshop on the A.R.C. changes for next
12:31:42 week.
12:31:46 I am also going to ask that we have a staff
12:31:48 presentation on that issue March 8th.
12:31:51 So everybody can hear this.
12:31:53 >>CHAIRMAN: Motion and second.
12:31:54 (Motion carried).

12:31:55 >>CHAIRMAN: Mr. Reddick?
12:31:59 >>FRANK REDDICK: In a report.
12:32:02 >>GWEN MILLER: I have one item.
12:32:03 Mary Githum wants to give us an update on DACO.
12:32:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I thought you said GEICO.
12:32:16 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion say Aye.
12:32:18 Opposed, Nay.
12:32:19 And MOSI would like to appear before us to announce
12:32:24 the recipient of 2007 national Hispanic of the you're
12:32:27 award.
12:32:29 MOSI.
12:32:31 October.
12:32:34 I guess they'll get back with us and give us a date.
12:32:37 All in favor of that motion say Aye.
12:32:39 Opposed, Nay.
12:32:39 (Motion carried)
12:32:41 I would like to give commendation to the love
12:32:43 foundation corporation recognizing their fourth annual
12:32:46 global update, which is to be held on February
12:32:49 23rd.
12:32:49 (Motion Carried)
12:32:54 And the last one is the peace celebrating their

12:33:02 50th anniversary.
12:33:04 I will present to the them.
12:33:06 All in favor say Iowa.
12:33:07 Opposed, Nay.
12:33:07 (Motion carried).
12:33:08 Anything else from council?
12:33:10 Is Mr. Shelby --clerk.
12:33:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to receive and file.
12:33:18 (Motion carried).
12:33:20 >>THE CLERK: We have a memo from the chief of staff
12:33:22 indicating that the consultant for the downtown
12:33:27 waterfront park will be here on March 8th.
12:33:32 And he would like to make a presentation to City
12:33:35 Council that evening.
12:33:37 And he's suggesting just prayer to the 5:30 session,
12:33:44 5:15 or 5:00.
12:33:47 (Motion Carried)
12:33:55 Anything else?
12:33:56 I want to correct the MOSI appearance.
12:33:59 They want to come to council in April, but in October
12:34:02 they will have a ceremony at MOSI.
12:34:05 So they are going to come to council in April.

12:34:07 They didn't give us a date.
12:34:11 So April in City Council.
12:34:13 October they have the ceremony at MOSI.
12:34:16 That's a correction.
12:34:16 >>MARY ALVAREZ: So moved.
12:34:18 >> Second.
12:34:18 (Motion carried).
12:34:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did you want to pick a date?
12:34:22 >>GWEN MILLER: No.
12:34:23 They'll let us know.
12:34:24 Anything else coming before council?
12:34:25 We stand adjourned.
12:34:27 Till 6:00.
12:34:28 6:00.
12:34:29 (Meeting recessed until 6:00 p.m.)