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Tampa City Council
Thursday, February 22, 2007
6:00 p.m. session

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18:06:44 >>GWEN MILLER: The chair will yield to Mrs. Mary
18:06:46 Alvarez.
18:06:47 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Good evening.
18:06:49 It gives me great pleasure to introduce Olivia Wilson,
18:06:56 and she's the 11th aid assistant to our chair,
18:06:59 everyone though she never hesitates to assist all
18:07:01 council members.
18:07:03 Although she doesn't like it, Libby has been with the
18:07:06 city for 29 years.

18:07:11 Beginning her career in the sanitary and sewer
18:07:14 department in 1978 as a file clerk.
18:07:16 She has a bachelor of administration degree from
18:07:19 northwood university, is a member of the Alpha Kappa
18:07:22 alpha sorority and the proud mother of Cory, who she
18:07:25 refers to as her baby boy.
18:07:28 Even though he stands about 6'4" inches and weighs
18:07:32 about 295 pounds.
18:07:35 In her spare time, she loves to read, cook, exercise
18:07:39 and shop.
18:07:41 So please stand for the invocation and remain standing
18:07:48 for the pledge of allegiance.
18:07:50 >> Good evening.
18:07:50 Let us pray.
18:07:51 Lord, we thank you yet again for this day that you
18:07:54 have made and once again allow to us rejoice in.
18:08:01 >> not so much because of because in spite of what we
18:08:04 do. I pray you give this governing board the wisdom
18:08:08 and courage they need this evening to serve with
18:08:09 distinction.
18:08:17 Please grant them unity regarding the long-term effect
18:08:20 that their decisions will make.

18:08:21 Lord, I pray that this governing board will listen to
18:08:24 your spirit, for it will encourage -- it will point to
18:08:28 the truth, and it will assist them in making the best
18:08:31 decisions possible.
18:08:34 Last but certainly not least, Lord, I pray that we
18:08:36 will all keep a prayer in our hearts for our men and
18:08:40 women serving in the Armed Forces, those who are less
18:08:43 fortunate than us, those who are bereaved, those who
18:08:48 are sick and shut in, and those who are incarcerated.
18:08:52 Amen.
18:08:53 (Pledge of Allegiance).
18:09:13 >> Thank you.
18:09:13 >> Roll call.
18:09:15 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Here.
18:09:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
18:09:17 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Here.
18:09:18 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Here.
18:09:20 >>FRANK REDDICK: Here.
18:09:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
18:09:24 Are you ready?
18:09:26 >>JILL FINNEY: At this time I would like to clear the
18:09:30 agenda.

18:09:32 Item number 1.
18:09:34 Requesting a continuance to March 22nd.
18:09:37 >> Need a motion.
18:09:38 >> So moved.
18:09:39 >> Second.
18:09:39 >> Motion and second.
18:09:42 >> Should we ask if there's anyone in the audience?
18:09:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
18:09:47 wants to speak on number 1 on the continuance?
18:09:51 It's already continued.
18:10:02 >> That's 6 p.m.
18:10:04 >> Item number 2 is requesting a continuance to may
18:10:07 24th.
18:10:07 >>CHAIRMAN: We need to open the public hearing.
18:10:10 >> So moved.
18:10:10 >> Second.
18:10:11 (Motion carried).
18:10:12 >> Is there anyone here that wants to speak on number
18:10:16 2 on the continuance?
18:10:17 >> Motion to continue top May 24th, 6 p.m.
18:10:22 >> We have a motion and second.
18:10:23 (Motion carried).

18:10:24 >> Item number 3 is a requesting a continuance to
18:10:30 April 26th.
18:10:30 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to open the public hearing.
18:10:32 >> So moved.
18:10:33 >> Second.
18:10:34 (Motion carried).
18:10:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
18:10:39 wants to speak to number 3 on the continuance?
18:10:42 >> So moved.
18:10:42 >> Second.
18:10:43 >>MARTIN SHELBY: April 26th, 6 p.m.
18:10:47 Is that correct?
18:10:47 >>GWEN MILLER: April 26th, 6 p.m.
18:10:49 (Motion carried).
18:10:54 >>> Jill: Number 5 is what we heard last week but
18:10:59 requested to be able to open tonight and move to March
18:11:01 22nd.
18:11:03 >> It's already been done.
18:11:05 >> So moved.
18:11:07 >> Second.
18:11:07 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
18:11:10 (Motion Carried).

18:11:13 >> Number 7 has been withdrawn.
18:11:15 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to open to the withdraw it?
18:11:18 Motion to withdraw.
18:11:19 >>MARY ALVAREZ: So moved.
18:11:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
18:11:24 (Motion carried).
18:11:24 >> Jill: Number it has requested a continuance to
18:11:31 March 8th.
18:11:34 (Motion carried).
18:11:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
18:11:37 wants to speak on the continuance on item number 9?
18:11:39 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Move to continue to March 8th, 6
18:11:43 p.m.
18:11:44 >> Motion an second.
18:11:45 (Motion carried).
18:11:46 >>> Jill: And number 11 has requested a continuance
18:11:53 to March 22nd, which would require a you to waive
18:12:01 your rules, three continuances but won't go over the
18:12:04 exceeded amount of case that is nature.
18:12:06 >>CHAIRMAN: Pleasure of council?
18:12:09 >>SHAWN HARRISON: This is the fourth continuance?
18:12:11 >>> No.

18:12:12 They have been continued -- they were heard, on the
18:12:15 25th of January.
18:12:16 And continued till tonight.
18:12:21 >> So moved.
18:12:25 >>> Jill: They had some changes that they had to make
18:12:27 on their site plan.
18:12:29 >> I thought you said we would be going over our
18:12:32 limit.
18:12:32 >> I just wonder if you would waive.
18:12:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY: As long as we are under the total of
18:12:38 13.
18:12:39 >>MARY ALVAREZ: We are probably going to have a lot of
18:12:43 continuances, too.
18:12:50 >>> We have one that was previously added aft last
18:12:52 week's session.
18:12:54 >>GWEN MILLER: 14?
18:12:59 >> Do we normally go above 14?
18:13:02 >>GWEN MILLER: We have gone above 14.
18:13:07 >> You can waive your rules.
18:13:07 >>GWEN MILLER: If you go to 14 you need to waive the
18:13:10 rules.
18:13:11 >>MARY ALVAREZ: So moved.

18:13:12 >> Second.
18:13:13 (Motion carried).
18:13:13 >> We need to make a motion to continue to then.
18:13:18 Does anyone in the public want to speak on the
18:13:20 continuance on item number 11?
18:13:23 >> Need to continue to March 22nd.
18:13:36 Do you object to continuing it?
18:13:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is the petitioner present, for the
18:13:38 record?
18:13:39 Is the petitioner present?
18:13:41 >> Planning on being here.
18:13:42 I don't see her in attendance.
18:13:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Would you like to speak to the
18:13:46 continuance?
18:13:47 Number 11.
18:13:48 You can tell us if you object to continuance, the only
18:13:55 thing you can talk about.
18:14:01 Let her come to the mike.
18:14:04 >>> It's hard to get people to come down.
18:14:06 >> Put your name on the record please.
18:14:07 >>> Kathy Miller, pawnee.
18:14:11 I live next door to the property and I had a hard time

18:14:13 to get people down.
18:14:15 I brought petitioner last time.
18:14:17 And I got other people here tonight.
18:14:19 And so it's difficult for everybody to keep coming
18:14:22 down.
18:14:24 So I don't know if you want to take their statements
18:14:27 or whatever.
18:14:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think we should hear it tonight.
18:14:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner is not here.
18:14:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Well?
18:14:35 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Now petitioner is here.
18:14:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Let's hear from the petitioner on the
18:14:42 continuance.
18:14:45 >>> There are a number of people who are here.
18:14:47 >>GWEN MILLER: How many people are here for item 11?
18:14:50 Raise your hand, please.
18:14:52 >> Four.
18:14:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think we should hear it.
18:14:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is the petitioner here?
18:14:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Will you come to the mike, please?
18:15:01 We have objections to you continuing so we need to
18:15:03 know why do you want to continue?

18:15:05 >>> I'm sorry.
18:15:08 I live in Valrico so it's difficult.
18:15:13 Lisa Montelione.
18:15:17 I have not been sworn.
18:15:18 >>GWEN MILLER: You don't have to be.
18:15:20 Why do you want to continue?
18:15:22 >>> We were here the last time.
18:15:23 I was asked to get back in touch with the
18:15:25 neighborhood.
18:15:26 I work on the elevations.
18:15:29 I'm sorry.
18:15:30 >>GWEN MILLER: That's okay, take your time.
18:15:32 >>> I worked on the elevations.
18:15:37 I had the exterior reworked.
18:15:39 I just got that back from the designer a couple days
18:15:43 ago.
18:15:44 It's difficult in only a couple of weeks.
18:15:47 So he did it.
18:15:54 Changing the design.
18:15:54 When I get back in touch with the neighborhood, I
18:15:57 wanted to give them the benefit of seeing the revised
18:16:00 elevations.

18:16:05 The revised elevation, and having a neighborhood
18:16:07 meeting.
18:16:08 I did talk to the civic association about using --
18:16:14 place to gather together the neighborhood.
18:16:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Since you're number 11, you can
18:16:18 have the opportunity to chat with the neighbors in the
18:16:21 meeting room at City Council while we go through the
18:16:24 earlier petitions, and then -- because everybody found
18:16:28 a parking space, has driven down here.
18:16:30 My feeling is you all should go ahead and meet.
18:16:32 But you can have an opportunity to chat out there
18:16:34 before it comes to council.
18:16:37 >>> I did want to bring to your attention that revised
18:16:40 site plans haven't been submitted.
18:16:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: But they can still go ahead and
18:16:43 chat with the neighbors and --
18:16:48 >>GWEN MILLER: You can talk with them and find out if
18:16:51 they will let you continue it.
18:16:53 >>> And the unfortunate thing is because I had planned
18:16:55 on meeting again having an association meeting.
18:17:00 There's a neighborhood picnic on the 24th.
18:17:03 Which unfortunately is two days after the March

18:17:05 22nd hearing.
18:17:07 But I felt maybe the neighborhood picnic was a good
18:17:10 time for the entire civic association.
18:17:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Why don't you chat now?
18:17:14 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Go chat.
18:17:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Those who came for item number 11,
18:17:19 would you go with the petitioner and chat?
18:17:21 Thank you.
18:17:22 Okay, Ms. Finney, any more?
18:17:26 That's it?
18:17:27 What number are you raising your hand on, sir?
18:17:30 >>MARY ALVAREZ: It was withdrawn.
18:17:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Number 7 is withdrawn.
18:17:44 It's not going to be your problem because they are not
18:17:47 bringing it before us.
18:17:50 They are not going to bring it before us.
18:17:52 They have withdrawn their petition.
18:17:59 There's nothing wrong with them --
18:18:01 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Not working on number 12.
18:18:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner is withdrawing it.
18:18:08 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Maybe I can tomorrow talk with him.
18:18:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Shelby will meet with you outside.

18:18:14 >> Move to open number 4.
18:18:15 >> Second.
18:18:15 (Motion carried).
18:18:16 >> Anyone in the public that's going to speak on 4, 6,
18:18:23 8, 9 and 12, will you please stand and raise your
18:18:26 right hand?
18:18:27 Anyone that's going to speak on those items.
18:18:32 10.
18:18:35 (Oath administered by Clerk).
18:18:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, a reminder, if you had any
18:18:50 ex parte communication was anybody involved in any of
18:18:53 tonight's hearings please disclose prior to the vote
18:18:55 the person who -- whomever the communication occurred
18:18:59 and the substance of that verbal communication.
18:19:01 Ladies and gentlemen ladies and gentlemen, once again
18:19:03 when you state your name for the record please
18:19:05 reaffirm that you have been sworn.
18:19:06 I will put this little sign up there to remind you.
18:19:09 Thank you.
18:19:10 >>FRANK REDDICK: I think I probably need to announce
18:19:12 that I'm a member of the executive board of the East
18:19:16 Tampa partnership, and the petitioner did come before

18:19:20 the East Tampa partnership and presented the proposal.
18:19:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Were you present during the
18:19:27 discussion before the East Tampa partnership?
18:19:32 >>FRANK REDDICK: They spoke and I walked out.
18:19:34 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You would recognize the person coming
18:19:38 before the board?
18:19:41 >>FRANK REDDICK: Correct.
18:19:44 >>> Jill Finney, Land Development Coordination, here
18:19:47 on Z 07-03 at 1903 and 1917 east Palifox street from
18:19:56 RS-50 single residential family to PD planned
18:19:59 development, single family attached residential.
18:20:02 Petitioner is proposing to rezone property to allow
18:20:05 for the development of 32 townhouses, a 3.23-acre
18:20:09 site.
18:20:11 It's located in a predominantly single family
18:20:14 residential area, the PD setbacks are 10 feet to the
18:20:19 north, 15 feet to the east, 21 feet to the south, and
18:20:23 120 feet on the west.
18:20:29 It requires 72 parking spaces and 80 parking spaces
18:20:32 are being provided for.
18:20:36 There are objections from the landscape specialist and
18:20:40 parks and rec for the removal of a grand tree.

18:20:52 You will see that the area is ... (off microphone)
18:20:57 >>MARY ALVAREZ: It's not coming through on our
18:21:08 monitors.
18:21:11 >> It's on the Marge monitors.
18:21:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Cable, are you in there?
18:21:15 If you are, please turn on our monitors.
18:21:18 Okay, go ahead.
18:21:49 >>> This is unpaved on Palifax street.
18:21:53 This is going to be paved.
18:21:54 This is a house that accesses on Palifox and these are
18:22:00 the homes located -- Palifax to the north.
18:22:31 >> Can I hear from the landscape specialist?
18:22:34 According to the photographs there are some major
18:22:37 trees on the property.
18:22:40 >>> Mary Daniels, Land Development Coordination.
18:22:42 I have been sworn.
18:22:43 We work extensively with the petitioner to place the
18:22:48 building in the areas on the parcel which would impact
18:22:51 the least amount of trees and allow us to save the
18:22:55 best trees on-site, which is what we always try to do.
18:22:58 There is one tree in the front, and it's a grand tree.
18:23:03 And we have done everything possible trying to rework

18:23:06 the site and rework the roads that will be going in to
18:23:10 preserve that tree.
18:23:13 What would they have to do for transportation to put
18:23:16 in the road, the width, and the sidewalks and the
18:23:21 clear space between the sidewalk and the property
18:23:23 line, there is not enough room to give the tree enough
18:23:28 protected radius to create a sustainable environment
18:23:31 for that grand tree.
18:23:36 With all the waivers to remove that tree, they will be
18:23:40 not able to set up the site in the manner which they
18:23:43 propose.
18:23:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: How many grand trees were they able
18:23:46 to save?
18:23:48 >>> I believe they were able to save three or four
18:23:53 grand trees, and the number of significant specimen
18:23:58 trees.
18:24:00 They are meeting the 50%.
18:24:08 They are saving a total of 96 trees.
18:24:14 And they are removing a total of 87.
18:24:18 Of the 87 trees, we tried to work with them to make
18:24:22 sure they were removing the trees that really
18:24:26 shouldn't be preserved, that wouldn't survive

18:24:28 construction.
18:24:32 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Would you show us where the tree is
18:24:34 located that you saved?
18:24:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What kind of tree is that?
18:25:14 >>> To give you a perspective of the trees, where they
18:25:21 are proposing to put the drive.
18:25:24 >>MARY ALVAREZ: So where is the tree?
18:25:27 >>> Right here.
18:25:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can I ask you a fast judgment call
18:25:33 thing?
18:25:33 Did you, in working with them, feel like you were able
18:25:37 to come up with another way, another position in which
18:25:41 to place the drive which would have protected the
18:25:45 tree, or just smack in the middle of everything?
18:25:49 >>> We did propose to place the road right up against
18:25:53 the adjacent property.
18:25:57 And it doesn't give enough from the edge of the
18:25:59 pavement to the property line adjacent, enough ram to
18:26:04 actually put in a sidewalk and have enough clear space
18:26:07 for transportation.
18:26:13 We figured we would need at least 10-foot protective
18:26:16 radius surrounding the tree on that side, because on

18:26:19 the opposite side of the tree there is an aggregate of
18:26:23 protection that the tree should be okay with that
18:26:26 protective radius.
18:26:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Well, now how last Friday there was
18:26:31 a study done on this new rubberized material that can
18:26:37 go around trees?
18:26:39 If petitioner or city or whoever is building the
18:26:41 sidewalk can use that other material for sidewalk can
18:26:46 the tree be saved?
18:26:47 >>> Well, it's the actual roadway that would be
18:26:49 closest to the tree, and my understanding is that DPW
18:26:54 standards will not allow impervious type material in
18:26:56 the right-of-way.
18:26:57 They can do that inside the property but not on the
18:27:00 right-of-way.
18:27:01 >> This is going to be public or private?
18:27:03 >>> It will be public right-of-way.
18:27:04 >> And there wasn't any place tolls shift the roadway?
18:27:09 >>> Very tight.
18:27:09 And on the opposite side of the tree there are other
18:27:14 sites that we are also protecting.
18:27:17 >> Thank you very much.

18:27:19 >>> You're welcome.
18:27:20 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Show us on the site plan where the
18:27:22 tree is located.
18:27:42 >>> On the Elmo, the tree is located right here.
18:27:53 >> Where the road is, is that --
18:27:57 >>> That's a sidewalk.
18:27:58 >> Okay.
18:28:01 >> And those grand trees are along this property line
18:28:04 here.
18:28:11 >> Can they put the sidewalks away --
18:28:17 >>> It's not so much the sidewalks.
18:28:19 They have to put a sidewalk in on the south side.
18:28:22 And they have pushed that right up against the
18:28:24 property line.
18:28:25 And then you have to have enough clear space.
18:28:30 There's no way to shift this road to accommodate that.
18:28:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
18:28:46 >>TONY GARCIA: Planning Commission staff.
18:28:56 I have been sworn.
18:28:56 From the comprehensive plan, land use aspect, the
18:28:59 subject site, as you can see the predominant land use
18:29:02 category, is residential 10.

18:29:04 It is a 3.33-acre site as Ms. Finney has stated to
18:29:10 you.
18:29:10 They are only going to be attaching residential units
18:29:13 on the site.
18:29:13 The site is currently vacant land and there are
18:29:16 significant amount of trees on the site.
18:29:17 I do not know, and they probably could tell us how
18:29:21 many trees are actually going to be preserved as a
18:29:23 result of the impending development.
18:29:25 I don't know how that comes into it because I know we
18:29:32 all would like to save as many trees as possible.
18:29:36 With the land use element this particular area is an
18:29:39 East Tampa community redevelopment area. The proposed
18:29:41 project does go to the tent of policies that you can
18:29:46 see in the report that I have provided you which talks
18:29:48 about providing additional housing units within the
18:29:51 inner city, and also aggressive in permitting
18:29:56 provisions of the housing development, in-fill housing
18:29:58 projects.
18:30:00 Also, the redevelopment or revitalization strategies
18:30:03 incentives provided by the city, and underutilized
18:30:06 residential and in commercial areas where adequate

18:30:09 infrastructure exists.
18:30:10 This is an area that has been in dire need of
18:30:19 additional residential housing for the populace, and
18:30:22 this happens to be an area where there is quite a bit
18:30:24 of vacant land, infrastructure and capacity for future
18:30:29 housing needs.
18:30:30 As we all know this is one of the largest CIA areas
18:30:33 within the City of Tampa so there are quite the
18:30:35 opportunities over here, in contrast to other areas
18:30:40 where we do have projects that have come before you in
18:30:43 the last several years, and we pretty much know what
18:30:46 the densities are like over there for this particular
18:30:48 area east of the interstate does provide quite a few
18:30:52 opportunities for new housing projects.
18:30:54 Planning Commission staff had nooks No objections to
18:30:56 the proposed request.
18:30:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
18:31:00 Petitioner?
18:31:13 >>> I have been sworn in. before I start I have
18:31:15 some documents that I would like to hand to you while
18:31:18 I'm speaking.
18:31:49 I'm a land developer here in Tampa, Florida and I have

18:31:51 done a project in Hillsborough County, and this is my
18:31:54 first project that I would like to do in the City of
18:31:58 Tampa.
18:31:59 First let me tell you my development philosophy.
18:32:03 I'm one of those developers that's a big believer in
18:32:06 starting at the grassroots and building community
18:32:09 support before I even start considering whether I
18:32:14 would develop or purchase land, so on and so forth.
18:32:17 And I believe in East Tampa.
18:32:19 And I believe in urban renewal, and urban
18:32:23 revitalization.
18:32:24 And I believe in the location of East Tampa.
18:32:28 And I am actually quite perplexed why that area has
18:32:31 not done as well as it should have done.
18:32:36 And I heard news reports from the mayor, and I thought
18:32:40 as a businessman, and as a developer, I would take up
18:32:45 the mayor's various speeches through the media, TV,
18:32:51 print, radio, talking about East Tampa.
18:33:03 Roughly three acres that we are discussing tonight.
18:33:06 And I want to discuss that tree.
18:33:09 Because I was trying to save that tree from day one.
18:33:13 I worked very closely with staff.

18:33:16 And I believe in trees.
18:33:17 I'm not one of those developers that believes in clear
18:33:20 cutting everything and then putting, you know,
18:33:23 six-foot twigs in the ground as compensation.
18:33:25 That's not my style.
18:33:26 To me, trees add value.
18:33:29 And I instructed my civil engineer and I instructed
18:33:32 all people underneath me to preserve as many trees as
18:33:36 physically possible.
18:33:39 And I work so closely with Jill and a few other
18:33:42 members of the department trying to find a way around
18:33:45 that grand oak.
18:33:47 And believe me, if there was a way, I would have made
18:33:50 sure it was done.
18:33:53 Just after dealing with the engineers, and the tree
18:33:55 people, and their requirements, and their
18:33:58 requirements, it just wasn't physically possible.
18:34:01 I even was willing to buy acreage surrounding the
18:34:07 property to maybe get a new entranceway, but then word
18:34:09 got out and free market economy the way it is, people
18:34:12 are asking five times as much as they would have asked
18:34:16 maybe just three months ago.

18:34:20 So that didn't become feasible.
18:34:22 One thing I can offer if this project is approved is
18:34:25 the smaller developer, but still I can execute.
18:34:28 So don't need to worry.
18:34:30 If I get permission I'll make sure the job gets done.
18:34:35 I can provide opportunities for the people of East
18:34:37 Tampa through the construction phase.
18:34:40 Larger developers, through no fault of their own,
18:34:43 because they are bigger, they have infrastructure
18:34:45 networking in place for labor, suppliers, subtrades.
18:34:52 Because I'm a bit smaller I'm more flexible and able
18:34:58 to use local labor, local subtrade and local suppliers
18:35:01 if they are in the area.
18:35:02 And I will use them provided they give a fair price
18:35:05 for fair work, it's not a problem.
18:35:07 And I'm very keen to actually bring them on board
18:35:09 because I believe if they take part in this project it
18:35:13 will just create more wealth in the area, and I think
18:35:15 that's what the mayor was visualizing when she was
18:35:19 trying to get East Tampa to sort of start improving
18:35:24 and sort of join the rest of Tampa in the growth that
18:35:29 other areas of the city have experienced in the last

18:35:31 10, 15 years.
18:35:36 I forgot my notes.
18:35:38 So I am going to have to remember what my other one or
18:35:41 two major points were.
18:35:43 The one thing was that tree because I knew that would
18:35:45 be an issue because I understand the beauty of trees.
18:35:49 But we have saved as many trees as physically
18:35:52 possible.
18:35:53 And the engineers are ready to do the special
18:36:04 foundation for the slab to allow the roots to grow and
18:36:06 allow those trees to survive.
18:36:10 And I'm not really sure what else to say other than I
18:36:17 think it would be good for the community.
18:36:19 I think housing is needed.
18:36:20 High end housing at a fair price.
18:36:22 One thing that we are ready to do on this project,
18:36:25 which the plans don't show, is that every single room
18:36:30 in this town home has 10-foot ceilings.
18:36:34 Every single one.
18:36:35 And, in addition, these are for sale only.
18:36:40 There's going to be a homeowners association.
18:36:42 There's going to be certain standards, that deed

18:36:46 restricted community where the standards need to be
18:36:49 met and will be enforced.
18:36:51 This is going to be a new lease for East Tampa.
18:36:55 It started already and we want to be part of that
18:36:57 process.
18:36:58 And these units will have proper ceramic tile, 42-inch
18:37:03 cabinets instead of 42 and a half inch baseboards it
18:37:07 will be a five inch baseboard.
18:37:09 So we want the people to be able to buy a product that
18:37:11 they'll be proud to call their home instead of
18:37:14 something that looks like a rental property.
18:37:16 Because you know the development process, 95% of the
18:37:22 public only see that final layer, compared to an
18:37:25 onion, and they don't care about all the others that
18:37:28 are inside so I recognize that and am ready to put
18:37:32 money in on that final layer to create a nice product
18:37:34 that people feel proud of and would live there and
18:37:38 would maintain what they are living in.
18:37:40 And that's all I have to say.
18:37:43 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I'm a little confused as to the
18:37:49 removal of the trees.
18:37:52 Because the report here says that you want a waiver

18:37:56 for the removal of three grand trees.
18:37:59 And yet your site plan only shows removing one.
18:38:02 Which is which?
18:38:05 >>> Mary Daniels, Land Development Coordination.
18:38:07 I have been sworn.
18:38:08 There are two other grand trees that do need to be
18:38:10 removed because of their health.
18:38:11 They were hazardous in condition and we are requiring
18:38:16 four two-inch trees as replacements.
18:38:19 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Okay.
18:38:20 Also, Mr. Randhawa, you said there's a front porch.
18:38:31 Where are the front porches?
18:38:34 >>> This drawing is not very good, but there's
18:38:36 actually indentation of the porch.
18:38:43 Would you bring that photograph?
18:38:45 I have done the same thing in Hillsborough County in
18:38:46 the northwest area, indented about eight feet and
18:38:50 people actually put chairs, and you can sit, and they
18:38:52 put tables.
18:38:53 I had photographs.
18:38:55 >> It's not like a foyer?
18:39:00 >> 8 by what?

18:39:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Reddick.
18:39:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let me finish my questions.
18:39:15 8 by what?
18:40:13 >>> That's a draft floor plan layer.
18:40:15 It shows the foyer or porch, whatever terminology you
18:40:20 want to use for it.
18:40:22 But I had people decorate them, sit outside and put
18:40:26 tables and it looks real nice.
18:40:27 I have photographs that I can bring next time, if
18:40:34 necessary.
18:40:36 >>CHAIRMAN: You had a question, Mr. Reddick?
18:40:39 >>FRANK REDDICK: Yes, I have a couple questions.
18:40:40 What is the going rate for these town homes?
18:40:46 >>> The price point will be below 200,000.
18:40:48 The exact price hasn't yet been determined.
18:40:50 But the whole point here is to keep it affordable but
18:40:54 yet nice.
18:40:56 >>FRANK REDDICK: Now you say 10% of the projects would
18:40:59 be set aside for affordable housing?
18:41:04 10%?
18:41:10 >>> Some could be.
18:41:10 >>FRANK REDDICK: I was just reading that 10% of the

18:41:14 private dwelling is affording.
18:41:18 Are you saying 10% of these 32 units?
18:41:21 >>> No, all the units will be priced at 200,000 or
18:41:24 less.
18:41:25 And it will be bought and sold in the open market.
18:41:29 I have done a lot of research.
18:41:31 And it seems to me there are a lot of people in East
18:41:33 Tampa that are school teachers, nurses, firefighters,
18:41:39 police officers, clerical workers, who need housing,
18:41:45 you know, at affordable price but still nice houses.
18:41:50 Because I know that market is not being met in East
18:41:52 Tampa.
18:41:53 There are magnet schools in the neighborhood for
18:41:58 housing, nice housing was available at a good price.
18:42:01 I think many people would be in the market for that
18:42:03 particular product.
18:42:05 >>FRANK REDDICK: Have you done an assessment of other
18:42:09 homes in the area?
18:42:10 What is the average home value, say within two or
18:42:14 three blocks of this project?
18:42:17 >>> Obviously the price per square foot is a little
18:42:19 bit lower right now but I feel when you do new

18:42:22 construction and new product, you can't use historical
18:42:24 data as a reliable source to get a feel for what it
18:42:29 would actually go in the open market.
18:42:34 Not only am I talking -- I'm talking from even
18:42:37 personal experience.
18:42:39 I built up on Sheldon road in an area that's at the
18:42:42 corner of Sheldon and waters, and the market analysis
18:42:46 that we did and what we were actually selling, the
18:42:50 difference is astronomical from the older housing.
18:42:54 So I didn't pay too much attention this time.
18:42:57 I know that when a new product and a new community
18:42:59 comes in, it's a little independent from the
18:43:03 surrounding price point of older units.
18:43:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Councilman Reddick, you mentioned an
18:43:11 issue in the staff report regarding bonus density.
18:43:14 Perhaps if you like staff can clarify that.
18:43:17 >>FRANK REDDICK: Okay, that's fine.
18:43:22 >>> Land development.
18:43:23 There are ten bonus criterions that each developer
18:43:28 would have and can meet three of the ten.
18:43:29 And that was just one of the ten options.
18:43:34 The three are listed and explained further.

18:43:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Anything else?
18:43:44 We'll go to the audience. Is there anyone in the
18:43:45 audience that wants ton speak on item 4?
18:43:47 Will you please come up and speak?
18:43:49 Anyone that wants to speak on item 4, come up and
18:43:51 speak.
18:43:55 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Again, ladies and gentlemen, when you
18:43:57 state your name, please reaffirm whether you have been
18:43:59 sworn.
18:43:59 Thank you.
18:44:01 >>> First of all I would like for you to know that --
18:44:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Put your name on the record first.
18:44:05 >>> My name is Al Barnes, 4506 north 20th street.
18:44:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Have you been sworn in, sir?
18:44:11 Were you sworn in?
18:44:13 >>> Yes.
18:44:14 It's very disturbing to sit here and hear people talk
18:44:18 about your neighborhood.
18:44:20 I bought my property there in the late '60s and
18:44:25 built my house in the early '70s.
18:44:28 Directly behind me where you are talking about, there
18:44:32 is two to three acres of land that was filled with oak

18:44:36 trees, grand oaks.
18:44:37 About 15 to 20% of these trees have been cut down I
18:44:45 called the mayor's office.
18:44:47 I think it was about three months ago, when the last
18:44:49 vendor was knocking down trees, and they came out and
18:44:52 they stopped them.
18:44:55 I bought my property for about three reasons.
18:44:57 First of all the location. The location was near
18:45:00 where I work at Hillsborough high school.
18:45:02 Second was the scenery.
18:45:04 Because the trees were so beautiful.
18:45:08 And next the land is landlocked between 19th,
18:45:12 20th, Osborne, and Noel these trees sit in the
18:45:19 center so he has to cut in through that road to build.
18:45:23 And we are not against progress.
18:45:24 If someone would like to come in that area and put
18:45:29 houses, we are all for it.
18:45:30 But I have a petition here with over 75% of the people
18:45:35 who live in the area that I just named that are
18:45:37 against this idea.
18:45:39 Thank you.
18:45:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else like to speak?

18:45:45 Would you give that to me, Mr. Barnes, give it to the
18:45:49 attorney so we can put it in the record?
18:45:52 >>FRANK REDDICK: Is he against the development or the
18:46:08 trees back there?
18:46:08 >>GWEN MILLER: The development.
18:46:09 But they already cut the trees down before you
18:46:11 started.
18:46:16 >>> Larry Williams.
18:46:16 I reside at 1904 east Noel, Tampa, Florida 33601 and I
18:46:21 have been sworn in.
18:46:22 For the record, I have met the petitioner, and it's
18:46:26 not anything personally or professionally against him.
18:46:29 I think he's -- he means well.
18:46:32 I think his business is fine.
18:46:34 But we just don't think that area there is suited for
18:46:38 what he would like in this particular area.
18:46:42 When I moved to Tampa in 1982, I moved in that area
18:46:45 for a specific reason.
18:46:46 And I think for the 20-some-odd years I have been
18:46:51 living there it has not become what it will be, but
18:46:53 those of you who recognize Tampa understand that East
18:46:56 Tampa is the future of the City of Tampa.

18:46:58 And any real estate, understand that we are sitting on
18:47:02 valuable land.
18:47:03 And so I just don't think 32 townhouses in this
18:47:06 particular area is suited.
18:47:09 You are going to have probably two cars for each
18:47:11 townhouse, and he indicated that it probably will be
18:47:14 about $200,000.
18:47:16 I just don't see it.
18:47:18 And I think if he wants to put some single-family
18:47:21 residence in that area, I think the community will be
18:47:25 appreciative of that.
18:47:26 But for townhouses to be in that area, we just really
18:47:31 are opposed to that.
18:47:33 I think you all are aware about the mayor's
18:47:36 initiative, about the plan for East Tampa the next 20
18:47:40 to 30 years.
18:47:41 And we just don't think this really will help East
18:47:44 Tampa where we would like for the city to grow in the
18:47:47 next 20, 30 years.
18:47:49 So personally between my wife and I we object to
18:47:53 development of this property based on what I know
18:47:56 currently about it.

18:48:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Sir, do you live close to this
18:48:03 proposed development?
18:48:04 >>> Yes.
18:48:04 I stay one block south of the property on 19th and
18:48:10 Noel.
18:48:11 19th and -- yeah, Noelle.
18:48:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm so sorry.
18:48:20 I was just looking at the petition that's going
18:48:21 around.
18:48:22 And it wasn't clear to me.
18:48:23 It said we the undersigned object to high-rises or
18:48:31 two-story apartments.
18:48:33 But we are not opposed to single-family homes.
18:48:35 Now my understanding is these are single family but
18:48:38 they are attached as opposed to detached.
18:48:40 So I wasn't clear on whether the petition is opposed
18:48:46 to the proposal before us.
18:48:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Barnes, will you come back, please?
18:48:54 Come to the mike.
18:48:58 >>> Barnes: They would like to see houses that we
18:49:00 have, no condos, no apartments, no house looking down
18:49:04 on our back yards.

18:49:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I know this sounds like I'm
18:49:08 splitting hairs but I'm trying to be real precise.
18:49:11 What is proposed are single-family -- but they are
18:49:17 attached.
18:49:19 Is what the people who signed the petition saying they
18:49:22 want them detached?
18:49:23 Or are they saying want them individually owned?
18:49:27 >>> We want houses.
18:49:28 We don't want any apartments.
18:49:31 I suggest --
18:49:32 >> These aren't apartments.
18:49:34 They are townhouses.
18:49:35 >>> I would like to make a suggestion to you.
18:49:37 Before you -- I think that each of you should come out
18:49:43 and look at the area and look at the four squares that
18:49:46 are houses, around four squares, directly in the
18:49:48 center, you see these trees.
18:49:52 That is not like I said apportioned down and they want
18:49:55 to come in and put in the condos, or whatever you want
18:49:59 to call it.
18:50:00 We as a community, we object.
18:50:02 Thank you.

18:50:05 >>CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
18:50:05 Next.
18:50:09 >>> My name is Bernice Hamilton and I have been sworn
18:50:11 in.
18:50:14 I agree with my neighbors.
18:50:16 I live at 1916 east Noelle.
18:50:21 I'm closer to the problem, the area.
18:50:28 The thing is, the gentleman, the people, teachers,
18:50:37 police officers, clerical work, these people might
18:50:41 live in the neighborhood.
18:50:41 But I'm quite sure they don't make that much money to
18:50:45 own a $200,000 townhouse.
18:50:50 My concern, it's the rezoning of that area.
18:50:55 If they put those townhouses there, that means
18:51:00 rezoning, the property devalues, all the homes are
18:51:03 going to be increased, that means that the tax is
18:51:05 going to be higher, the insurance is going to be
18:51:08 higher, and the people that's been there, I'm quite
18:51:11 sure, is not going anywhere anytime soon, me for one.
18:51:15 My concern is the rezoning of that and the increase of
18:51:19 all the taxes, the homeowner insurance that will come
18:51:23 along with that.

18:51:27 So I would like the rest of -- we would like to have
18:51:33 homes in there, yes.
18:51:34 But as far as townhouses and apartments, I would think
18:51:38 it would do better to have homes in that area.
18:51:41 >> Thank you.
18:51:42 Would anyone else like to speak?
18:51:53 >> My name is Julius Davis.
18:51:56 And I would like to be sworn in, please.
18:51:57 >>CHAIRMAN: Raise your right hand.
18:52:02 (Oath administered by Clerk).
18:52:05 >>> Again my name is Julius Davis and I'm a licensed
18:52:08 professional engineer.
18:52:11 I was born and raised in the East Tampa community
18:52:14 area.
18:52:17 I attended Chamberlain high school and graduate of
18:52:20 south Florida.
18:52:22 I am greatly anxious to be the lead engineer for the
18:52:25 mechanical, electrical and plumbing systems for the
18:52:28 project that Navpreet is proposing for this area.
18:52:36 I have assisted Nav in the past seven months in
18:52:39 presenting this project and hope that it would be a
18:52:44 part of the community an helping to develop the

18:52:48 community, as well as giving me an opportunity to work
18:52:50 with the project and trying to increase my revenue,
18:52:55 trying to gain knowledge and trying to, you know, be
18:53:01 one of the first projects that I'm able to work on as
18:53:05 a entrepreneur.
18:53:07 So I guess I'm here tonight to ask some of you to come
18:53:14 to an agreement in favor of this project so that, you
18:53:21 know, it would be in betterment of the community.
18:53:26 Thank you.
18:53:26 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Mr. Randall --
18:53:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Not yet.
18:53:39 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I want to talk to Mr. Johnson.
18:53:43 >>> Ed Johnson, manager for East Tampa redevelopment.
18:53:45 I have been sworn.
18:53:51 I made a great effort for the last several months that
18:53:54 in this project with the East Tampa revitalization
18:53:57 partnership, which is the entity that we are utilizing
18:54:01 for our redevelopment efforts, he has gone to great
18:54:04 lengths to meet with and through the registered
18:54:07 neighborhood association, which is the East Tampa
18:54:09 business and civic association.
18:54:12 They arranged several community meetings for him to

18:54:15 meet with the residents of this community to discuss
18:54:18 this project.
18:54:19 Also, he's met on several occasion was the East Tampa
18:54:24 partnership and has been given the green light and has
18:54:28 been given support for his project.
18:54:32 When he met with the registered neighborhood
18:54:36 association, from my recollection, the response that
18:54:40 we got from the president of the neighborhood
18:54:42 association was that the community was not in
18:54:45 objection to this project.
18:54:46 So tonight is the first time we are hearing, you know,
18:54:49 the number of folks in opposition to the project.
18:54:53 But the partnership was in support of it.
18:54:55 Our staff is in support of it.
18:54:57 We think that the townhouse development is a type of a
18:55:01 product that yet is new to East Tampa.
18:55:04 We believe that it's a good product for the community.
18:55:07 And it has potential to obviously create some other
18:55:14 activities in some of these areas that have been
18:55:17 underserved for so long.
18:55:20 So we ask you to please take a real close look at this
18:55:24 project, especially the amount of time that the

18:55:26 petitioner has spent with staff, and also the
18:55:30 community on this project.
18:55:32 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Mr. Johnson, that was going to be my
18:55:35 question, to see whether the petitioner had met with
18:55:38 the neighborhood and the residents.
18:55:42 And my question to you is, did the people that object
18:55:47 tonight, were they there at the meeting, and did they
18:55:50 say at that time that they were in objection to it?
18:55:56 >>> I believe Mr. Barnes was the only one that Mrs.
18:56:01 Wiggins reported that I know of.
18:56:03 I don't have in front of me a record of all of those
18:56:06 that attended but I could check that out.
18:56:08 >>MARY ALVAREZ: I just wanted to know if there was any
18:56:11 objection at the time that they met.
18:56:15 Were there any other people there that were saying,
18:56:17 no, we don't like the project?
18:56:19 >>> The only person I know of was Mr. Barnes.
18:56:21 >> Okay.
18:56:22 Thank you.
18:56:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else like to speak?
18:56:25 You may come up and speak.
18:56:30 (Oath administered by Clerk.)

18:56:36 >> Gloria Becky Davis and the recording secretary for
18:56:48 the East Tampa civic association and also a member of
18:56:50 the partnership, East Tampa partnership.
18:56:53 And we did have a meeting.
18:56:56 The East Tampa business did have a meeting some months
18:57:02 ago.
18:57:02 And when the petitioner came and gave a presentation.
18:57:10 The only person I recall making notes, in my minutes,
18:57:13 that really objected to it was Mr. Barnes.
18:57:15 The rest of them asked questions and concern about the
18:57:20 water drain and the trees.
18:57:23 But the only one in opposition to it from my
18:57:26 recollection in taking the minutes was Mr. Barnes.
18:57:30 And that was it.
18:57:32 At the revitalization meeting, I don't recall them
18:57:35 coming up and asking about it, the neighbors in that
18:57:37 area.
18:57:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else like to speak?
18:57:41 Mr. Fletcher?
18:57:45 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Question for staff.
18:57:46 I think probably on the land use issue.
18:57:51 Under the current zoning, how many single-family

18:57:53 homes, detached single-family homes, would be allowed
18:57:59 presently without any land use changes?
18:58:01 >> If you will give me a little bit.
18:58:07 We can figure it out for you and come back.
18:58:10 >>GWEN MILLER: You can come speak.
18:58:14 >> Opa Barnes.
18:58:17 I have been sworn in already.
18:58:18 I think the issue here is that we do not want -- we
18:58:21 need to understand why he's doing attached homes,
18:58:26 which are town homes, rather than single-family homes.
18:58:31 Because the area is single-family house.
18:58:35 And it's a question of rezoning the property.
18:58:40 And I think, too, for those of us that live right
18:58:43 there, next to the area that they are planning on
18:58:48 building on, and I'm sure that it wasn't this person
18:58:53 who took down all of the trees.
18:58:55 There must have been at least 75 to 100 trees moved.
18:58:58 I'm sure it wasn't this gentleman.
18:59:01 But we just need to understand why they want to do
18:59:10 townhouses rather than single-family homes.
18:59:12 That's what I would like to know.
18:59:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else like to speak?

18:59:19 All right.
18:59:20 Petitioner.
18:59:28 >>> We do base our density on future land use and that
18:59:31 is what he is doing it now, 32 units per acre.
18:59:34 And we haven't done a configuration as far as having
18:59:37 it built out like that, so roadways and everything,
18:59:40 internal circulation.
18:59:41 I can't say that that's what it would be built at.
18:59:44 I would actually have to see it depicted.
18:59:46 But 32 units is what he would be able to get.
18:59:50 >> So in rough terms, be able to build 32 single
18:59:52 family detached homes throughout that property?
18:59:55 >>> Yes.
18:59:55 >> Thank you.
18:59:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question, a land use
18:59:58 question for you.
18:59:59 I am looking at this picture.
19:00:01 And I'm looking at what I see.
19:00:03 And way see are detached single-family homes.
19:00:06 If you did your red and blue picture which are the
19:00:11 conforming lots and which are nonconforming lots, I
19:00:15 see 100% conforming detached single-family homes.

19:00:21 So it appears to me, if this were a PD, where you did
19:00:26 analysis and said what is the prevailing trend in the
19:00:30 neighborhood, it appears that 100% of everything
19:00:35 that's there are detached single-family homes.
19:00:41 So I don't understand how the report of the staff says
19:00:49 this is compatible, when it's not compatible of
19:00:54 anything that surrounds it for blocks in any
19:00:56 direction.
19:00:58 >>> When we do this report, though, for this, we don't
19:01:01 do the red-blue map, and we also do take into
19:01:05 consideration that it is in the enterprise zone, and
19:01:08 what would be compatible in the sense of what's needed
19:01:11 in the area.
19:01:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think that this is slightly -- I
19:01:20 mean, this is knoll personal.
19:01:22 It's professional.
19:01:23 But I think it's a little presumptuous.
19:01:26 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I'm glad Mr. Fletcher asked that
19:01:38 question.
19:01:38 If you look at the map as far as the eye can see it's
19:01:41 single family. This would literally be an island of
19:01:44 attached multi--well, attached to a -- whatever it is,

19:01:50 condominiums.
19:01:50 They are not detached -- it's literally an island in
19:01:57 the middle of all these other single-family homes.
19:02:00 I have to say, and I am going to give the Peter
19:02:04 opportunity, but that's what I would prefer to see.
19:02:08 >>CHAIRMAN: I would, too.
19:02:09 Petitioner, would you come back up for rebuttal?
19:02:12 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: With clustering the units, 32
19:02:18 units as he has here, we do get, though, additional
19:02:22 stormwater protection and additional open space that
19:02:25 would not be protected and available if you simply had
19:02:29 Euclidean zoning with 32 separate homes spaced
19:02:33 throughout that property.
19:02:34 >>> Absolutely.
19:02:35 Able to save trees during this process.
19:02:40 >> That wouldn't otherwise be saved.
19:02:42 >>> Yes.
19:02:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
19:02:44 >> Randhawa: I want to go over two or three points
19:02:54 before woo Y we selected town homes.
19:02:56 First and foremost I'm a little upset right now
19:02:59 because I got sideswiped, and I was not aware of any

19:03:04 community opposition.
19:03:05 I went to several community meetings.
19:03:08 And I did get a lot of feedback.
19:03:10 But the biggest fear that the community had was
19:03:13 rentals.
19:03:15 That was their biggest fear.
19:03:17 And in these community meetings, it was stressed again
19:03:20 and again that these are for-sale only and it's going
19:03:23 to be a homeowners or condo association is going to
19:03:27 enforce strict rules.
19:03:29 And this gentleman never phoned me, never e-mailed me,
19:03:36 never faxed me, never sent me a letter, despite the
19:03:39 fact I sent letters as to the whole community, you
19:03:42 know, several weeks ago, and I never received any
19:03:46 negative feedback from anyone in the community.
19:03:52 And he's claiming 75 people signed.
19:03:55 But again, this is critical here.
19:03:58 When you write the word apartment, immediately it
19:04:01 triggers rental in people's mind.
19:04:03 So this was a game that's going on.
19:04:05 And I understand that.
19:04:07 I'm a big boy.

19:04:10 It happened to me in the past.
19:04:11 I was driving with my wife and joking with her saying,
19:04:14 you know, the community is for it, everything should
19:04:16 go fine, I said, you never know, because a lot of
19:04:20 times people keep their cards to their chest and want
19:04:23 to blind side you. This is what happened tonight.
19:04:26 To use the phrase many trees were cut down.
19:04:28 He didn't give dates.
19:04:29 He didn't give -- I just bought this land.
19:04:32 I bought this land August 31st, 2006.
19:04:38 Maybe ask the gentleman when did these trees get cut?
19:04:40 I didn't cut them.
19:04:43 >> Who said did you?
19:04:43 >> But the way you describe it, sir, you give the
19:04:46 impression --
19:04:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Sir, talk to us.
19:04:50 >> Okay.
19:04:50 I'm sorry.
19:04:52 For the record, I bought that land August 31st,
19:04:55 2006.
19:04:56 And nobody was ever authorized to remove anything from
19:05:00 that property.

19:05:03 So help me God.
19:05:04 >> Have you been to the property?
19:05:05 >>> Yes, I have, ma'am.
19:05:07 >> Have trees been cut down?
19:05:08 No, no, I'm asking --
19:05:11 >>> On August 31st --
19:05:13 >>GWEN MILLER: No, have you been to the property
19:05:14 lately?
19:05:15 >>> Yes.
19:05:15 >> Have trees been cut down?
19:05:17 >>> Not that I'm aware of.
19:05:19 >> You haven't seen --
19:05:20 >>> Not that I have.
19:05:21 I ask to phone the police department and arrest them
19:05:24 for trespassing because nobody has been authorized by
19:05:26 me to cut any trees.
19:05:27 And you should take pictures, my good friend.
19:05:32 FROM THE FLOOR: I did.
19:05:33 >>CHAIRMAN: Talk to us.
19:05:37 >> This is not a joke.
19:05:38 These people live in this neighborhood and they are
19:05:40 being affected by it.

19:05:41 I don't think it's a joke to them.
19:05:43 >>> Ma'am, I never said it was a joke.
19:05:45 >>GWEN MILLER: You did.
19:05:45 You said it was a joke.
19:05:47 >>> When?
19:05:48 >> When you started talking.
19:05:49 >>> Did I use the word joke?
19:05:51 I have to check that.
19:05:52 I didn't mean that.
19:05:53 But I just feel blind-sided that I have been working
19:05:56 so closely for the last several months, Mr. Johnson,
19:06:00 and Jill, and Betty Wiggins.
19:06:02 And the letters speak for themselves.
19:06:04 >> Yes, but those people don't live in that area.
19:06:06 They don't live on 19th.
19:06:08 They don't live on 20th.
19:06:09 They don't live on Noelle. The people speaking here
19:06:11 are the ones that will be affected by this.
19:06:14 >> I believe if he had so many signatures that were
19:06:17 based on stressing the point -- now town home. The
19:06:23 word means home.
19:06:25 I don't know if the community -- the reason why we

19:06:27 selected town homes, madam, was because it's not
19:06:32 economically feasible any other route.
19:06:35 Because if we don't get enough units per acre, then
19:06:38 the numbers don't make sense, and then the people who
19:06:42 are against the project and against the development
19:06:45 will get their way because the land won't be able to
19:06:48 be developed.
19:06:48 Because huge construction costs, land costs, insurance
19:06:52 costs. Anyway, you guys know what happened with
19:06:56 construction pricing.
19:06:57 If you want to give a fair praise on a good product,
19:07:01 it's not possible on a single-family home at this
19:07:03 point in time.
19:07:04 Maybe a few years down the road it might be.
19:07:06 But right now it's not.
19:07:07 But this product is going to be marketed to
19:07:13 individuals who are educated, who are nurses, who are
19:07:15 teachers, who are office workers, and then they are
19:07:20 going to buy this home and they are going to maintain
19:07:22 that neighborhood and it's going to be a higher
19:07:24 standard than landscaping.
19:07:26 I think if you are allowed to go forward and see the

19:07:28 end product, I think everyone that was against it will
19:07:31 probably have second thoughts and probably say, wow,
19:07:35 this developer did what he said.
19:07:37 >>GWEN MILLER: But you remember, 100% single-family
19:07:40 homes are in that area and you are going to build
19:07:43 right in the middle of them and all around is going to
19:07:46 be single family.
19:07:47 You are going to have townhouse right in the middle.
19:07:51 Mr. Dingfelder.
19:07:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Johnson, I'm sorry I had to
19:07:57 step out for a minute while you were talking.
19:08:00 But I heard you talking on the television.
19:08:04 Could you give me a little recap?
19:08:07 You know, you are the city's eyes and ears in that
19:08:14 community, okay?
19:08:16 And I think I heard you say that your recommendation
19:08:20 that this thing -- I don't know.
19:08:23 Tell me what you said and why you said it.
19:08:26 >>> Ed Johnson: If I can repeat again.
19:08:28 The petitioner came to the partnership, which was
19:08:32 suggested by our staff, when this project was brought
19:08:36 to us for consideration.

19:08:38 And he recommended that he went through the
19:08:41 partnership.
19:08:41 This was the link to the community.
19:08:43 And Mr. Nav did that.
19:08:47 He spent many, many months making several different
19:08:50 presentations to a land use subcommittee and made
19:08:54 meetings to the Executive Committee, the partnership,
19:08:58 made presentations to the partnership as a whole on
19:09:02 several differ occasions, met with the neighborhood
19:09:05 registered association, which he was instructed to do,
19:09:08 and the feedback that we got from those meetings was
19:09:11 that there was only one person that was in objection,
19:09:15 that voiced an objection to the project, and that was
19:09:17 Mr. Barnes.
19:09:18 And from our recollection was concerning the trees,
19:09:22 and also the fact that the rental situation.
19:09:28 And I think that's because around the property -- and
19:09:31 the conversation is that this is strictly a
19:09:33 single-family residential community.
19:09:36 Predominantly it is.
19:09:37 But there are also public housing two blocks over to
19:09:42 the east right across from Middleton high school which

19:09:46 is multifamily.
19:09:48 There are also several different zoning that's also in
19:09:52 this community.
19:09:54 It's not all single-family RS-50.
19:09:57 There's some RM-16 association RM-24 designations in
19:10:01 this community.
19:10:01 And there are other developers that are potentially
19:10:04 ready to bring other projects like this to the table.
19:10:08 This is our first attempt.
19:10:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What is the up-side?
19:10:13 I think I heard Mr. Barnes say what their concern is,
19:10:17 that they prefer to see single-family detached.
19:10:20 But why --
19:10:26 >>> They get a development on a piece of property that
19:10:28 hasn't been developed in many, many, many years.
19:10:32 Three acres sitting there could bring some potential
19:10:34 to future development in the area, townhouse
19:10:38 development obviously brings we think a better product
19:10:41 to the community, and gives them more choices other
19:10:44 than single family house, people like to live in
19:10:49 townhouses.
19:10:50 We believe that.

19:10:51 We believe the product will be an opportunity for
19:10:53 other types of development to come into the East Tampa
19:10:55 community that's going to obviously help our TIF and
19:10:58 help increase our tax base within the city with adding
19:11:03 properties that have been sitting vacant for years.
19:11:05 And this particular project, without having that road
19:11:08 going into it, it's just going to sit there.
19:11:11 If this project doesn't go forward.
19:11:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Why can't they build single family
19:11:16 house there is?
19:11:17 >>> I think the cost of the land, the price that they
19:11:20 paid, the cost of the three-acre piece of property.
19:11:24 Even in East Tampa today is pretty substantial.
19:11:28 Hundreds of thousands of dollars he had to pay for
19:11:30 that site.
19:11:32 The return on an investment of that type, you wouldn't
19:11:35 get in the single-family house.
19:11:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: When this is explained to the
19:11:41 community, Mr. Johnson, I assume that you -- I have
19:11:46 just been looking at the zoning map.
19:11:47 I didn't realize that there was multifamily a block
19:11:50 and a half away.

19:11:51 What is that multifamily?
19:11:56 >>> Andrews subsidized housing that the Tampa housing
19:11:59 authority owns.
19:11:59 >> How many units is there?
19:12:01 >>> I think approximately about 100 some units in
19:12:04 there.
19:12:05 About 110, 115 units.
19:12:11 On the east side of 22nd.
19:12:14 Directly across from the high school.
19:12:15 >> When this project was explained to the neighbors,
19:12:17 was it explained that it was attached but
19:12:21 single-family and individually owned?
19:12:25 >>> I think it was explained as a townhouse
19:12:27 single-family owned, or individual owner, not a rental
19:12:31 property.
19:12:39 >> I just wanted to say one more thing if I could.
19:12:41 Thank you, Ed.
19:12:43 The petitioner had indicated that he felt, quote,
19:12:47 blind-sided in regard to Mr. Barnes and the other
19:12:50 folks any objections.
19:12:52 He didn't think he had any objections.
19:12:54 Now he realizes he has objections.

19:12:56 Instead of us banging around with this, I would
19:12:58 suggest the best place for this to go would be to step
19:13:02 back a little bit, give them perhaps 30 days to
19:13:05 explain this project a little better, to the folks
19:13:08 that he does know now exists in opposition, and then
19:13:11 come back in 30 days and see if they can work out some
19:13:15 compromise and some solutions.
19:13:19 >> Second.
19:13:19 >>FRANK REDDICK: Madam Chair, I keep hearing two
19:13:29 different things.
19:13:30 One, the petitioner says the trees have not been cut
19:13:37 down.
19:13:37 The neighbors are saying the trees have been cut.
19:13:39 Now, the trees are down.
19:13:46 Do you have any knowledge whether trees have been cut
19:13:48 out there?
19:13:49 >>> There have been trees cut on that property.
19:13:51 The residents are correct.
19:13:53 It was prior to NAV's purchase of this property.
19:13:57 He's correct, August 31st or thereabouts when he
19:14:00 purchased the property those trees were already cut
19:14:02 down.

19:14:03 The previous owner, I'm sure.
19:14:04 I think at one time there were several attempts to
19:14:07 develop that property by the previous owners of that
19:14:09 property.
19:14:11 They could well have eliminated the trees on that
19:14:13 site.
19:14:16 It was not this petitioner.
19:14:17 >>CHAIRMAN: We need to find the owner and find out why
19:14:20 he took the trees and needs to be find.
19:14:23 We need somebody to make a motion.
19:14:31 You heard the suggestion to give you 30 days to meet
19:14:34 with those neighbors that came up and talked about how
19:14:37 they do not want that townhouse in the area.
19:14:39 Do you agree to meet with them?
19:14:41 >>> Can I make -- before I answer that question I want
19:14:44 to make two points very clear.
19:14:45 When that land was purchased in August 31st, 2006,
19:14:48 the city didn't find and lien the previous owner.
19:14:54 I know that because at the closing table, we closed
19:14:56 that day, because of that I shall -- couldn't close
19:14:59 that day because of that issue.
19:15:00 And the previous owner did a payoff to the city to

19:15:04 remove that lien.
19:15:05 So I think he was punished for his -- and you can look
19:15:08 at your records and study that in detail.
19:15:12 I didn't ask him too much.
19:15:15 All I found at the closing table was that the city
19:15:18 fined him and liened him.
19:15:23 >>GWEN MILLER: You said earlier you didn't know
19:15:24 nothing about cutting the trees.
19:15:26 >>> I told you earlier, ma'am --
19:15:28 >> You said earlier --
19:15:29 >>> I said now the lien on the closing date.
19:15:35 >>GWEN MILLER: When you were asked that question
19:15:38 about did you know the trees were cut down you said
19:15:40 know and you didn't know who cut them down, you didn't
19:15:43 know anything about trees being cut down.
19:15:45 You purchased the land in August you didn't know who
19:15:48 cut those trees down.
19:15:49 Now you know who cut them down.
19:15:51 >>> Ma'am, I'm just putting two and two together as
19:15:54 I'm standing here.
19:15:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
19:15:57 >>> You can check the computer.

19:15:59 >>GWEN MILLER: All right.
19:16:00 Hold it.
19:16:00 Are you willing to go 30 days and meet with that
19:16:03 neighborhood?
19:16:04 >>> I would like a continuance to 60 days because I
19:16:06 have a family member ill.
19:16:07 I have to go overseas in March.
19:16:10 And as a result I would like to ask for a continuance
19:16:13 for sometime in April.
19:16:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
19:16:16 >>GWEN MILLER: How about the neighborhood?
19:16:20 Are the neighbors agreeable with that?
19:16:22 Are you all agreeable with the 60 days?
19:16:28 Are you agreeable with the 60 days?
19:16:31 Yes, okay.
19:16:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, if you wish to do that, I
19:16:39 don't know, ma'am, when the chair asked if anybody
19:16:41 wanted to speak, did you step up?
19:16:44 >>CHAIRMAN: No.
19:16:45 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Because the gentleman had a chance
19:16:47 for rebuttal.
19:16:48 Are you with him?

19:16:49 Okay, you wish -- that's fine.
19:16:51 So go ahead.
19:16:52 This is part of your time, sir.
19:16:54 That's fine.
19:16:56 >>> I would like to be sworn if I could, please.
19:16:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I suggest if this is going to be
19:17:00 continued 60 days --
19:17:02 >>> I agree.
19:17:03 I won't be long.
19:17:04 It's going to be very brief.
19:17:09 (Oath administered by Clerk)
19:17:09 My name is Lindala.
19:17:13 I did go to one or two of the homeowners meetings.
19:17:17 My two daughters.
19:17:22 When we go to these meetings they are a family thing.
19:17:25 I was actually astonished that there were barely 20,
19:17:29 25 people at that meeting.
19:17:30 I myself was shocked.
19:17:32 But if this was happening in my backyard I would be
19:17:34 there.
19:17:35 I am looking at the project as if I were living there.
19:17:39 I understand it's single-family homes and we are

19:17:41 proposing townhouses.
19:17:43 But if we did single-family homes the tree issue would
19:17:45 be the first issue.
19:17:46 Would you not save half the trees that we are savoring
19:17:48 by doing townhouses.
19:17:50 Number two, single-family homes are not affordable.
19:17:53 We can do townhouses in the 200 praise range.
19:17:56 Single-family homes would go past 200 for sure.
19:17:59 Number three, there is a difference between town homes
19:18:02 and townhomes.
19:18:07 We built townhouses there as my husband said, 10-foot
19:18:11 ceilings, two car garages, garage doors 8-foot
19:18:15 openings.
19:18:15 When you look at these they look like elephant.
19:18:20 K.C. homes built next door and they look like a mouse.
19:18:25 And I would love you to come and see that.
19:18:26 So you can build town homes that look like House
19:18:29 homes.
19:18:31 For exactly what you build.
19:18:33 We put crown moldings, precast.
19:18:39 Depending on what you put into your home.
19:18:41 So we are building a good product.

19:18:43 And I just wanted you to know that I have attended a
19:18:46 lot of these meetings even with my children.
19:18:48 And I was aware of the gentleman here with his
19:18:52 objection.
19:18:53 We did sit down with him.
19:18:54 After that there was never any feedback.
19:18:56 We always wanted to meet with them and I would mention
19:18:59 to you there were no more than 25 people at any of
19:19:01 these meetings.
19:19:04 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I think that everyone should take a
19:19:06 deep breath and back off and go back to the drawing
19:19:08 board on it.
19:19:09 I think that's a great suggestion.
19:19:11 I am quite interest in the issue of how many
19:19:14 single-family homes could be built there, and what is
19:19:16 the price point of those single-family homes versus
19:19:20 the price point of these town homes.
19:19:23 Because I tend to agree, I don't think that you can
19:19:26 build $200,000 single-family homes there.
19:19:29 But I also don't know how much profit margin you have
19:19:31 built into your project as well.
19:19:34 >>> Just so you know Sheldon road --

19:19:38 >> I don't care about Sheldon road.
19:19:40 >>> No, no.
19:19:41 But as far as we are concerned, family units, we
19:19:44 priced them 195.
19:19:46 If four months later they are selling at 250, that's
19:19:49 the homeowners equity.
19:19:51 We want to be build and be able to move these units
19:19:54 especially in this market so -- we are not in it to
19:19:59 say let's hold onto these unit and let's see if we can
19:20:02 sale them four years later for double the price.
19:20:06 There are different ways and we are not playing that
19:20:08 game.
19:20:08 >>SHAWN HARRISON: you are interrupting me.
19:20:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You can speak, ma'am.
19:20:16 >>SHAWN HARRISON: May I finish, Mr. Shelby?
19:20:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: All right.
19:20:20 >> Would you be prepared when we come back in 60 days,
19:20:22 Mr. Johnson -- because we are interested in
19:20:25 redevelopment potential in East Tampa and wave to try
19:20:29 to determine is it better to go with lower price point
19:20:31 town homes, or multifamily attached, or are we getting
19:20:36 to the point in East Tampa where we can build

19:20:39 single-family homes?
19:20:40 We are not going to get 32 onto this parcel.
19:20:43 Maybe you will get 20.
19:20:44 But can you priss those in an area that the developer
19:20:47 still makes a reasonable profit, and they'll sell?
19:20:50 And that's where you all come in.
19:20:52 I would like to have that question answered.
19:20:54 Because we are in a transition over there, and it's
19:20:56 good.
19:21:01 >>> We in the redevelopment business -- I'll be
19:21:04 prepared to answer that question in 60 days.
19:21:09 >> As part of that analysis, the other piece to this
19:21:11 is, when you have a PD project like we've here, where
19:21:16 you are requesting densities on one part of the
19:21:18 property, you have an opportunity frequently to
19:21:20 preserve more trees and to have improved more
19:21:23 efficient stormwater.
19:21:24 So that's the other part of that analysis.
19:21:27 We simply have the various lots that homeowners build
19:21:32 don't have typically that stormwater control and the
19:21:35 additional trees.
19:21:37 So that's part of the trade-off that you have to look

19:21:39 at here.
19:21:39 And I hope that will be part of that analysis.
19:21:41 I won't be here when you get back.
19:21:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: and I want to apologize to the
19:21:47 staff about what I said about, you know, being
19:21:50 presumptuous.
19:21:51 It's tough.
19:21:52 It's tough.
19:21:53 This is, I think, we would all agree, it's something
19:21:58 new in a neighborhood that hasn't seen new for awhile.
19:22:00 So I think the next 60 days will be well spent and I
19:22:03 apologize.
19:22:04 >>CHAIRMAN: We need a motion.
19:22:05 >> So moved.
19:22:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Finney, give us a date.
19:22:25 >>> Yes, we have five cases going on the regular
19:22:27 agenda and three continuances.
19:22:30 >> What date is that?
19:22:32 >>> On the 26th of April.
19:22:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 6:00.
19:22:36 >>SHAWN HARRISON: So moved.
19:22:37 >>CHAIRMAN: We have a motion and second.

19:22:39 Mr. Shelby?
19:22:41 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If we could have the petitioner
19:22:42 affirm that's his request to have it continued to that
19:22:44 date.
19:22:44 >>SHAWN HARRISON: April 26th.
19:22:47 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you could come up, sir, very
19:22:49 quickly.
19:22:51 Is your request to continue this to April 26th at
19:22:53 6 p.m.?
19:22:56 >>> Yes.
19:22:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
19:22:57 (Motion carried).
19:22:58 April the 26th at 6 p.m.
19:23:04 >> Move to open number 6.
19:23:06 >> Second.
19:23:06 (Motion carried).
19:23:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I believe there was some
19:23:22 discussion with regard to number 11.
19:23:23 If you wish to recall that, I believe it's going to
19:23:25 have to be continued.
19:23:28 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Yes.
19:23:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Finney, would you hold a second?

19:23:33 Petitioner for item number 11, would you come up?
19:23:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is there a recommendation with regard
19:24:10 to a date for this?
19:24:11 >>CHAIRMAN: Petitioner, can you tell me what happened
19:24:29 with the discussion?
19:24:31 >>> I'm not sure.
19:24:31 I mean --
19:24:34 >> did you all come to a conclusion?
19:24:37 >>> No.
19:24:37 And one of the things I wanted to do, it's just a
19:24:40 suggestion of councilman Reddick, was to get in touch
19:24:43 and talk with more of the neighbors.
19:24:44 And there are four households represented here
19:24:49 tonight.
19:24:50 But there are many, many --
19:24:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Are you agreeable to continue this
19:24:55 item?
19:24:55 Are they agreeable with you?
19:24:57 The ones that you talked to?
19:24:59 >>> We didn't really talk about the continuance.
19:25:01 We talked about the issues that they have concerns on
19:25:04 the site plan.

19:25:07 We really didn't discuss whether or not the
19:25:08 continuance is an issue with them.
19:25:10 We talked more about what the issues were from the
19:25:13 first hearing, and were trying to address those
19:25:18 issues.
19:25:19 We didn't talk about the continuance.
19:25:22 If that's what you are asking.
19:25:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe also the issue of the fact
19:25:26 that there is no new staff report.
19:25:28 There is no opportunity for any revisions that have
19:25:31 been reviewed by staff.
19:25:32 So if it does go forward tonight you would be relying
19:25:35 on that which you have previously seen, is that
19:25:37 correct?
19:25:39 >>> Donna Wysong, legal department. The staff has not
19:25:42 had a chance to review the site plan and they must
19:25:45 have 13 days to review the site plan so I believe they
19:25:47 are recommending a continuance to March 22nd.
19:25:53 For the item.
19:25:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just want to make sure, since the
19:25:58 neighborhood has been inconvenienced -- I mean the
19:26:01 petitioner has been directed to come up with

19:26:03 something, share it with the neighborhood and get back
19:26:05 to us.
19:26:05 If they weren't ready to come ahead, it inconvenienced
19:26:09 the neighborhood to be here tonight.
19:26:10 I want to know before we set this date if you will
19:26:12 have an opportunity to meet with the neighborhood,
19:26:15 submit a site plan that hopefully will address some of
19:26:19 their concerns, and have that reviewed prior to a
19:26:21 month from now.
19:26:22 Because if not, perhaps you should put it off longer.
19:26:25 Because my intention would be --
19:26:31 >>> Yes.
19:26:31 I believe that's enough time for me.
19:26:34 What I planned on doing -- and the reason why I asked
19:26:38 for the continuance tonight in the first place -- was
19:26:41 because I wanted to get the revised elevations back
19:26:45 from the gentleman who is doing the design, put
19:26:47 together a packet, and do I guess what's called a
19:26:51 courtesy renotice.
19:26:55 From the fact sheet, revised elevations, revised site
19:26:58 plans, with a letter, more than just what the form
19:27:03 letter says that you are required to send with the

19:27:05 first notice.
19:27:06 And send that to everyone.
19:27:09 So that way, everyone would be knowledgeable of the
19:27:13 fact and have the opportunity to see it.
19:27:15 And then as I said, I had discussed with the civic
19:27:18 association president about using the space that they
19:27:22 generally meet in to bring anyone who is interested in
19:27:25 talking and discussing and doing a presentation, you
19:27:30 know, at a meeting.
19:27:32 And I'm ready because I just got the elevations back
19:27:37 this week, a couple days ago.
19:27:39 I can put that together and get it out in the mail and
19:27:44 have it distributed to the neighborhood, and have that
19:27:47 meeting.
19:27:50 In a month's time.
19:27:51 >>CHAIRMAN: Okay.
19:27:54 That's time enough.
19:27:55 We'll make a motion.
19:27:55 >>MARY ALVAREZ: So moved.
19:27:57 6 p.m.
19:27:58 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I would make a second to Ms.
19:28:01 Alvarez's motion. This is Terrace Park civic

19:28:04 association.
19:28:07 It may be that you can craft something that would be
19:28:10 pleasing enough to the neighbors that they are willing
19:28:12 to put up with the headache, it sounds to me like,
19:28:16 because I think your immediate next door neighbor was
19:28:18 the most vocal about the objections.
19:28:24 But it sounds to me like you have got a long row to
19:28:30 Hoe.
19:28:30 But you have a chance.
19:28:31 And they have been inconvenienced by coming down here.
19:28:34 This is twice now.
19:28:35 And this thing will be over on March 22nd one way
19:28:39 or the other.
19:28:39 >>> Right.
19:28:40 And I think in all fairness, like I said the folks
19:28:43 that are here represent maybe four households in the
19:28:45 neighborhood and there are many others who are in
19:28:48 support who a couple of them had medical emergencies
19:28:51 --
19:28:52 >> Yes.
19:28:52 Your next door neighbor who is going to be the
19:28:55 absolute most inconvenienced is not supportive and

19:28:58 that carries a lot of weight versus somebody that
19:29:00 lives two or three blocks away.
19:29:02 >>> Well, no, the other person lives directly on the
19:29:04 other side and one of them lives directly behind me.
19:29:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Be here on March 22nd.
19:29:10 We have a motion on the floor.
19:29:11 All in favor say Aye.
19:29:12 Opposed, Nay.
19:29:16 >> I just want to bring to the her attention that her
19:29:18 plans will be due by March 9th and if she met with
19:29:21 the neighborhood and if she's going to adjust anything
19:29:23 it would put her in a time crunch.
19:29:26 Just to consider that.
19:29:27 Because we have to have 13 days.
19:29:30 >> I guess the question for the petitioner is will you
19:29:33 have everything complete by March 9th with no
19:29:35 changes after that?
19:29:38 >>> Is there an available date --
19:29:42 >>MARTIN SHELBY: April 12th.
19:29:45 >>MARY ALVAREZ: That's perfect.
19:29:46 >>CHAIRMAN: We need to rescind the motion.
19:29:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to rescind.

19:29:51 >> Second.
19:29:51 (Motion carried).
19:29:52 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Move to continue to April 12th.
19:29:55 >> Second.
19:29:55 (Motion carried).
19:29:56 >>GWEN MILLER: 6 p.m., April 12th.
19:30:00 Now we go to item number 6.
19:30:02 >> So moved.
19:30:03 >> Second.
19:30:04 >>CHAIRMAN: Already on it.
19:30:14 >> Jill Finney, Land Development Coordination.
19:30:16 I have been sworn.
19:30:17 We are here on Z 07-05 located at 2133 and 2135 union
19:30:23 street, going from RS-50 residential single family to
19:30:29 PD planned development.
19:30:32 The petitioner is proposing to rezone the property to
19:30:34 allow for a 4,660-foot professional office use.
19:30:41 The PD setbacks are zero for the north, south and
19:30:45 west, and 7-foot on the east.
19:30:48 These are consistent with the existing setbacks with
19:30:51 the structure that is currently on the site.
19:30:53 A total of 16 parking spaces are required and 18

19:30:57 spaces are being provided.
19:31:16 Directly to the west.
19:31:23 This is an aerial view.
19:31:27 This is Albany, Spruce.
19:31:35 This is a picture of the existing structure on the
19:31:37 site.
19:31:40 And this is the lot adjacent to the structure on the
19:31:43 site which is also part of this PD request.
19:31:48 An overview of the properties together.
19:31:56 This is the property that is directly abutting the
19:31:58 site to the east.
19:32:01 This is looking down the street to the east.
19:32:05 And this is looking down union street to the west.
19:32:17 This is directly across the street from the site, just
19:32:21 south of that.
19:32:27 This is located along the north, the north boundary
19:32:30 line of the site.
19:32:33 And here are some structures in the local
19:32:36 neighborhood.
19:32:42 Staff has several objections that we discussed with
19:32:46 the petitioner.
19:32:48 There is an issue of the buffering.

19:32:50 It is not being met around the eastern portion of the
19:32:55 property line.
19:32:59 Transportation has several objections.
19:33:00 And solid waste also has objections to comments and
19:33:07 notes that have been added to the site plan.
19:33:10 If you would like me to go into specific objections I
19:33:13 can do that.
19:33:15 >> If petitioner agreed to those notes being added in
19:33:22 the second reading.
19:33:24 >> Currently, it's not yet been changed --
19:33:29 >> I'm not sure when that is coming into effect.
19:33:33 I asked today and I believe it's coming shortly,
19:33:35 actually.
19:33:40 >> So if we like everything except the notes added we
19:33:43 could continue this till the notes are added an come
19:33:45 back for first reading?
19:33:46 >>> Yes.
19:33:47 Notes need to be added but also for the
19:33:49 transportation, they have -- they have substantive
19:33:54 objections.
19:33:57 They would still maintain objections because it would
19:33:59 be asking for waivers that are technical, we think are

19:34:05 technical.
19:34:09 >> Do you approve of this?
19:34:11 >>> I have objections.
19:34:13 Solid waste has objections.
19:34:15 And also transportation has objections.
19:34:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Maybe we should hear
19:34:23 transportation's objections.
19:34:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Transportation?
19:34:30 >>> Transportation.
19:34:31 I have been sworn.
19:34:31 The three objections that transportation has for the
19:34:34 project is the lay-out of the parking.
19:34:37 They have a backout that measures nearly 60 feet, a
19:34:41 drive-out between parking stalls, that is chapter 27
19:34:46 to be 26 feet, also to grass parking is not permitted
19:34:52 for an office.
19:34:54 And the over 65% compact parking, it is only 6%.
19:34:59 However, I know that's supposed to be revisited and
19:35:02 brought back down to a number considerably lower than
19:35:05 the 65.
19:35:06 So the 67 is more.
19:35:08 But all three can be taken care of with waivers.

19:35:13 >> Planning Commission staff.
19:35:18 >>TONY GARCIA: Planning Commission staff.
19:35:20 I have been sworn in.
19:35:22 In addition to the information that's already been
19:35:24 provided you by Ms. Finney, let me give you a few more
19:35:28 pieces of information.
19:35:54 >> This is what used to be one of the main roads way
19:35:57 back in the 30s and 40s over here at north Albany.
19:36:03 There is currently a church right over here on this
19:36:05 site.
19:36:06 Church or school located -- the 1947 building is going
19:36:14 to be adaptable use.
19:36:17 The site is of course located right within the
19:36:19 enterprise zone.
19:36:20 So there's no location of provisions that have to be
19:36:22 measured over here.
19:36:24 The request is for low density office use which is
19:36:26 consistent not only with land use designation but also
19:36:29 consistent in policies and principles of the
19:36:33 enterprise zone vision.
19:36:34 Planning Commission staff had no objections to the
19:36:37 proposed request.

19:36:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
19:36:39 >> Richard Kalvidia, my mailing address is 1721 north
19:36:53 Howard, 33607.
19:36:54 I have been sworn.
19:36:57 You may or may not know, I have approximately -- I
19:37:02 have restored about three buildings in that corridor.
19:37:04 And I have a lot invested in the area, as well as my
19:37:07 business is Howard and union street.
19:37:14 I have several people coming to me wanting to lease
19:37:16 space, professional such as architect, engineers,
19:37:21 general contractors, et cetera.
19:37:24 And when this building became available, I wanted to
19:37:28 take advantage of it.
19:37:29 And so I did.
19:37:30 And what I want to do is I want to take this building,
19:37:35 put a nice red brick facade on it.
19:37:38 I don't know if you have the elevation.
19:37:40 But I want -- it's going to make a huge improvement to
19:37:43 the neighborhood.
19:37:45 And I want to enclosure something up.
19:37:50 I brought my engineer with me.
19:37:52 He's going to explain to you about the grass parking.

19:37:54 But it's not a yard that you are parking on.
19:37:57 Half of it is pavement. The other half is a Geo web
19:38:00 system which he'll explain to you what that is.
19:38:02 And there's a concrete base that allows grass to grow
19:38:05 through and again it's not going to be like a 7-11
19:38:10 where there's a lot of in and out traffic.
19:38:12 It's going to be very minimal.
19:38:17 I understand one of the reasons I chose that was
19:38:20 because I didn't want to put a retention pond that
19:38:22 would limit my spaces with parking on West Tampa is
19:38:25 very hard to come by.
19:38:28 We have 18 spaces instead of 16.
19:38:32 16 which is required.
19:38:33 And also across the street there is a city parking lot
19:38:36 that's not full.
19:38:40 So I believe it's going to be a big improvement to the
19:38:43 area.
19:38:46 As far as the retention pond, it is next to a school,
19:38:51 it breeds mosquitoes, and they are very unattractive
19:38:54 and I want to build something that's very nice and
19:38:58 compliment the neighborhood.
19:39:01 I have my engineer here.

19:39:05 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Actually, I just wanted to thank
19:39:06 you for bringing up the issue of the Geo web and the
19:39:10 parking surfaces.
19:39:11 It's something we might talk about whether or not we
19:39:14 need to revise the parking code so that innovative
19:39:18 solutions like you're describing don't require the
19:39:22 transportation department to object to it.
19:39:26 I think that should be more the standard than the
19:39:27 exception.
19:39:28 So I really want to thank you for including that in
19:39:30 designing and bringing that to our attention.
19:39:32 Thank you.
19:39:34 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Mr. Kabalita, did you go to the West
19:39:38 Tampa overlay committee?
19:39:40 >>> Yes, ma'am.
19:39:40 They are in total support as well as all the property
19:39:42 owners.
19:39:43 Also the old West Tampa neighborhood association.
19:39:45 Everybody is in total support for the project.
19:39:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Did you win an award for the
19:39:57 renovation of your building --
19:39:59 >>> I haven't received an award but --

19:40:02 >> I have to compliment you on what you have
19:40:04 accomplished there.
19:40:05 You were one of the first individuals to invest in
19:40:09 redevelopment on Howard.
19:40:12 And you have just done such a great job of it.
19:40:15 And we don't have a copy of the elevation.
19:40:18 And I'd love to see it.
19:40:20 If somebody on staff has a copy perhaps.
19:40:26 >> Let's see if anyone in the public wants to see.
19:40:29 >> Actually, I want to add to what Ms. Saul-Sena said.
19:40:34 Ricky, as we know him.
19:40:37 Couldn't wait for the facade program to kick in so he
19:40:39 decided to do the renovation on his own and he used
19:40:43 his own dime for that and I want to publicly thank him
19:40:46 for that.
19:40:46 You did a great job on it.
19:40:48 The West Tampa chamber meets over there every month.
19:40:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
19:40:55 wants to speak on item number 6?
19:40:56 >> Move to close.
19:40:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can we get a copy of the facade,
19:41:01 staff?

19:41:06 Let us take a look at it.
19:41:11 >> Did you get Mr. PARDA's AC problem worked out?
19:41:18 >>> Yes, we did.
19:41:20 >> Motion to close.
19:41:22 >>MARY ALVAREZ: It's going to be beautiful.
19:41:25 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second to close.
19:41:28 (Motion carried).
19:41:29 Do we have an ordinance?
19:41:32 Ms. Articles?
19:41:33 >>MARY ALVAREZ: An ordinance rezoning property in the
19:41:37 general vicinity ever 2133 and 2135 --
19:41:41 >>> Excuse me.
19:41:44 This needs to be continued.
19:41:46 Because there are objections that need to be cleared.
19:41:49 And notes put on the site plan.
19:41:50 >>MARTIN SHELBY: My suggestion, council, is if you
19:41:54 wish, you can have this put on for a daytime meeting
19:41:56 for the first reading --
19:42:00 >> Two weeks from now.
19:42:06 >> If you can get the site plans tomorrow.
19:42:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to rescind the closure and
19:42:16 continue it for two weeks.

19:42:17 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Second.
19:42:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: At 10 a.m.?
19:42:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: At 10 a.m.
19:42:24 >> Motion and second.
19:42:25 (Motion Carried).
19:42:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: When want to make that Geo web --
19:42:31 come back here, Melanie.
19:42:33 Transportation needs -- we don't want people to be
19:42:40 objected to for doing Geo web.
19:42:41 We think it's more sustainable.
19:42:43 It's more progressive.
19:42:44 And rather than making it a problem for them we think
19:42:49 they should get like a gold star.
19:42:51 And I guess my motion would be to have you revisit the
19:42:54 issue of Geo web in your technical manual so that it's
19:42:58 not something to which you object.
19:43:01 >>> Melanie Calloway, transportation.
19:43:03 I just wanted you to know the code was clear about
19:43:05 paving parking spaces.
19:43:07 It says half or all parking spaces shall be paved, the
19:43:10 other half shall be durable surface.
19:43:15 We are not against Geo.

19:43:17 If he wants to use it as part of the durable surface
19:43:21 we can look into that but we need to look at the whole
19:43:23 plan that he is proposing.
19:43:25 We also have issues with we understand that paving and
19:43:28 stormwater issues, we need to take everything into
19:43:31 account before we want --
19:43:36 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Part of the issue is this helps
19:43:37 with stormwater.
19:43:38 We also have someone come forward a couple weeks ago
19:43:40 who wanted to -- I think actually a homeowner
19:43:46 association suggesting there be impervious surface
19:43:48 used and the response was that we don't have the
19:43:51 ability to require that under our code.
19:43:54 And it just strikes me that based on that discussion
19:43:58 that we had previously, and this, that we probably
19:44:03 need to take a hard look at how we address these
19:44:06 issues and are we really allowing folks to be as
19:44:09 innovative as they can be?
19:44:11 And on top of that, can we require this where it's
19:44:14 appropriate so that we don't have basically solid
19:44:19 parking lots everywhere, unless somebody happens to
19:44:22 decide to be innovative enough to avoid. That I don't

19:44:25 think we are based on way heard so far.
19:44:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I may make a suggestion, council,
19:44:31 this might be an appropriate time during a regular
19:44:33 meeting, when the administration is listening, to make
19:44:35 at motion for a future discussion, and to have the
19:44:38 administration receive direction from council.
19:44:41 >>CHARLES FLETCHER: Are you suggest ago daytime
19:44:44 meeting?
19:44:45 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I would suggest that, yes, that it
19:44:47 would be appropriate because that will be the
19:44:49 appropriate time to raise that issue.
19:44:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Excuse me.
19:44:53 Mr. Shelby, if this becomes part of the record and we
19:44:55 give them a couple of weeks, I don't see why we
19:44:57 can't -- this is a council meeting.
19:45:01 We are addressing zoning issues.
19:45:02 I don't see why we can't make a motion for a
19:45:05 conversation about something and then -- in a
19:45:09 reasonable amount of time.
19:45:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I respect it's a reasonable amount of
19:45:13 time.
19:45:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Because of the expertise of Mr.

19:45:16 Fletcher which is a limited commodity, I think I would
19:45:18 rather do it while he's here because he seems to know
19:45:20 a lot about it.
19:45:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I understand that.
19:45:25 As long as the administration has enough time.
19:45:27 It was related to me there was a motion made, at a
19:45:30 night meeting, that did not get back to the
19:45:32 administration and caused a little consternation which
19:45:35 was relayed to me so I'm bringing it to your
19:45:38 attention.
19:45:39 As long as they have sufficient time.
19:45:46 >>> And since I made that motion I would like to wait
19:45:48 till next week.
19:45:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Fine.
19:45:50 >>GWEN MILLER: At 10 a.m. in two weeks.
19:45:52 That date is what?
19:45:55 Two weeks.
19:45:57 March 8th at 10 a.m
19:45:59 Okay.
19:46:00 We need to open item number 8.
19:46:04 >> So moved.
19:46:05 >> Second.

19:46:05 (Motion carried).
19:46:29 >>JILL FINNEY: Land Development Coordination.
19:46:31 I have been sworn.
19:46:31 We are here on Z-07-07 locate at address 101
19:46:37 Chesapeake.
19:46:38 And this is going from an RS-50 residential single
19:46:41 family to a PD single-family semi-detached.
19:46:45 There are no waivers being requested.
19:46:49 The petitioner is proposing to rezone the property to
19:46:52 allow for the development of a single family semi
19:46:56 detached structure, two units, of thousand square
19:46:59 fountain site is located in an RS-50 zoning district.
19:47:04 The setbacks are 20-foot from the front, 7-foot side,
19:47:12 and the rear setback is 7 feet.
19:47:15 Four parking spaces are required and parking spaces
19:47:18 are being provided for.
19:47:32 This is located on Davis Island.
19:47:35 And you will notice the majority of it is RS-60 with
19:47:40 the exception of directly across from the site.
19:47:48 An to the south of RS-50.
19:47:57 East Davis Boulevard to the east of the site.
19:48:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Do you have a better one or can the

19:48:25 studio people lighten it a little bit?
19:48:27 >>JILL FINNEY: This is along Chesapeake.
19:48:32 This is the view from POMA.
19:48:41 These are the units directly across the street.
19:48:43 You will notice they are -- these town homes are
19:48:50 directly to the south.
19:48:53 Of the subject site.
19:48:58 This is a single-family home directly to the north.
19:49:11 These are some other photos of the structure.
19:49:24 Staff has no objections to this rezoning and are
19:49:26 available for any further comments or questions.
19:49:34 >>TONY GARCIA: Planning Commission staff.
19:49:36 I have been sworn.
19:49:37 The throw land use categories predominant in this
19:49:40 particular area are residential 30, residential 10.
19:49:45 The site in question as Ms. Finney stated the request
19:49:48 is to go from one single family detached unit to two
19:49:51 single family attached units.
19:49:54 Let me go to the aerial to give you a better context.
19:50:03 The properties adjacent to the site across on POMA.
19:50:07 Across the street you have town homes here.
19:50:10 There is one single-family detached here, single

19:50:12 family detached here.
19:50:14 Most of the homes here in this particular area seem to
19:50:16 be in an older state, have a God chance of being
19:50:19 redevelop.
19:50:20 Possibly all the same character that we are seeing for
19:50:23 a higher density.
19:50:25 As you see you do have a significant development here.
19:50:31 So that seems to be the tendency in this immediate
19:50:34 area that you can see.
19:50:35 We are just a couple blocks off the avenues Davis
19:50:41 Boulevard.
19:50:47 Basically the character is for a higher density.
19:50:49 It's not the characteristic that it is, not really
19:50:52 single family detached residential units.
19:50:53 Planning Commission staff had no objection was the
19:50:56 proposed request.
19:50:57 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Thank you.
19:50:58 Petitioner.
19:51:03 >>> Good evening.
19:51:05 We have tried to work with the neighborhood and fit
19:51:10 within the context of the neighborhood units.
19:51:14 We believe it's the augmentation of the surrounding

19:51:18 area, and we worked with staff.
19:51:23 We haven't heard any objection we couldn't solve.
19:51:27 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Let me see if there's anyone in the
19:51:30 audience that would like to speak on item number 8.
19:51:34 Okay, we'll need a motion to close.
19:51:36 >> Move to close.
19:51:37 >> Second.
19:51:37 (Motion carried).
19:51:38 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Do we have an ordinance?
19:51:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: While you are up there, you were
19:51:49 sworn, sir?
19:51:51 >>> I'm sorry.
19:51:51 I was sworn in.
19:51:52 Thank you.
19:51:54 >>FRANK REDDICK: Move an ordinance rezoning property
19:51:56 in the general vicinity of 101 Chesapeake Avenue in
19:52:00 the city of Tampa, Florida and more particularly
19:52:02 described in section 1 with residential sing am family
19:52:09 to PD planned development single family, semi
19:52:12 detached, providing an effective date.
19:52:13 >>SHAWN HARRISON: We have a motion and second.
19:52:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

19:52:18 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Any discussion on the motion?
19:52:21 (Motion Carried).
19:52:21 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Motion carries unanimously.
19:52:27 Thank you.
19:52:28 Item number 10.
19:52:29 Need a motion to open.
19:52:31 >> Second.
19:52:31 (Motion carried).
19:52:33 Fun Finland development coordination here on Z-07-13,
19:52:42 which is also a previously approved PD of Z-03-146.
19:52:51 It's located at 7627 Courtney Campbell causeway.
19:52:55 It is going from PD planned development hotel
19:52:58 multifamily restaurant use to PD planned development
19:53:01 hotel multifamily restaurant use.
19:53:05 There's one waiver being requested and that's to allow
19:53:08 for the reduction of the property space to 383 spaces.
19:53:14 The petitioner is proposing to rezone the property to
19:53:16 allow for an increase in the number of hotel rooms
19:53:20 from 200 to 300 and increase in height from 130 to 205
19:53:26 feet, which will allow for an increase in the number
19:53:28 of floors from 11 stories, which is including three
19:53:32 stories for parking, to 17 stories, which is including

19:53:36 five stories for parking.
19:53:42 The proposal does not change the building footprint on
19:53:44 the site plan and it's limited to increase in room
19:53:47 size and hate and will not affect the previously
19:53:49 approved zoning.
19:54:04 The subject site is locate at Rocky Point.
19:54:08 The majority of the properties have all been rezoned
19:54:11 to PD.
19:54:20 Courtney Campbell causeway.
19:54:23 >> In a nutshell what's the difference?
19:54:27 >>> It's asking for increase in rooms from 200 rams to
19:54:30 300 rooms.
19:54:32 And the height from 130 feet to 205 feet.
19:54:37 In height.
19:54:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Does staff have objections?
19:54:45 >>> Yes, we do.
19:54:46 Trees and landscaping and transportation has
19:54:49 objections.
19:54:49 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Keep going.
19:54:51 I thought it was going to be easy.
19:54:56 >> The existing site.
19:55:08 Directly across from the site is the park.

19:55:12 With proposed apartment further down.
19:55:15 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Do you have a picture of the trees
19:55:34 in question that are being objected to?
19:55:37 >>> Land Development Coordination.
19:55:38 I have been sworn.
19:55:39 Basically, there are no trees left on the site.
19:55:42 The original PD required them to retain 37 trees.
19:55:47 I was informed that they have relocated the trees off
19:55:50 site.
19:55:51 They are in a nursery, to be replanted.
19:55:54 However, I do need to -- I feel compelled to bring
19:55:59 this to council's knowledge, because they did not
19:56:02 request that as part of the prior PD.
19:56:05 The prior PD stated that the trees would be -- 37
19:56:11 trees would be saved on-site.
19:56:13 I do believe that they can either add a note to the
19:56:16 site plan stating that these trees are being kept off
19:56:20 site, how many trees, the condition of the trees, and
19:56:25 stating that they will provide a maintenance agreement
19:56:29 for the trees that do go back.
19:56:35 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Was there any staff presentation to
19:56:37 be done?

19:56:43 >>> Transportation issues.
19:56:45 >> What were the transportation issues?
19:56:50 >>> Transportation.
19:56:51 I have been sworn.
19:56:51 The objection from us is in regards to the sidewalks
19:56:57 on the site plan.
19:56:58 However he is going to comply with chapter 22.
19:57:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have an issue.
19:57:03 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Do you still have an objection or
19:57:05 you don't have an objection anymore?
19:57:06 >>> Correct.
19:57:07 No objection.
19:57:07 >>SHAWN HARRISON: No objection.
19:57:09 Mrs. Saul-Sena?
19:57:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Important question.
19:57:12 Over Christmas two pedestrians, at least one
19:57:14 pedestrian, was killed in front of the property trying
19:57:17 to cross Courtney Campbell.
19:57:25 Been saying for years we need pedestrian crossing, we
19:57:28 have a lot of staff and workers working here.
19:57:31 Don't you all have -- what are the plans to have some
19:57:35 sort of pedestrian crosswalk?

19:57:37 And isn't that relevant to this project?
19:57:43 Crossing Courtney Campbell.
19:57:46 >> That wouldn't be relevant unless any new
19:57:48 improvements were to be made at the signal there.
19:57:54 There, the driveway in front of their property is
19:57:57 where they would Ned to make improvements.
19:58:02 >> I don't know if you want to look at it in terms of
19:58:04 this rezoning, the land use rezoning across the
19:58:08 street, or the other hotel across the street.
19:58:13 Currently there is no safe way for pedestrians to get
19:58:16 across this portion of Courtney Campbell.
19:58:19 And I'm not saying that we burden this petitioner with
19:58:22 this responsibility.
19:58:23 I think it should be a shared responsibility among all
19:58:26 the people who are doing things in this area,
19:58:29 increasing the activity, increasing the potential for
19:58:33 pedestrian exposure.
19:58:36 But I can't believe that this isn't like on your radar
19:58:40 screen.
19:58:40 So maybe I'll deal with this separately.
19:58:44 >>> Right to. My knowledge, I believe that we can
19:58:46 make it a stipulation when it triggers some kind of

19:58:50 traffic control.
19:58:55 However, this doesn't.
19:58:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Do we have people from legal here?
19:59:00 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Hold on here.
19:59:01 Courtney Campbell is a State Road.
19:59:03 I'm sure D.O.T. is going to have something to say
19:59:05 about us deciding that we are going to, you know,
19:59:07 paint a crosswalk on Courtney Campbell causeway here.
19:59:10 >>> Right.
19:59:11 No, we.wouldn't paint a crosswalk.
19:59:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: How about picking up the tab for
19:59:18 doing it?
19:59:18 >>> No, you're right, everything that happens on that
19:59:21 road is their jurisdiction.
19:59:22 We basically -- we work in conjunction with them
19:59:26 obviously on these rezonings that are abutted but as
19:59:29 of now I don't know of any improvements to be made.
19:59:33 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Well, that's a conversation for
19:59:35 another time.
19:59:37 Mr. Garcia, Planning Commission.
19:59:41 >>TONY GARCIA: Planning Commission staff.
19:59:43 I have been sworn.

19:59:43 We have no objections to it, to cut to the short.
19:59:46 But the reason why I'm saying that very quickly is I
19:59:49 want to kind of like chime in with what Ms. Saul-Sena
19:59:51 is concerned about.
19:59:52 Because actually, Ms. Saul-Sena, when we had -- here
19:59:59 is the last use.
20:00:06 You already have made approvals on this site.
20:00:08 You're looking at this site.
20:00:10 You're going to be seeing this site.
20:00:12 You will be seeing the land use site.
20:00:14 So D.O.T., I believe, was present at the DRC.
20:00:18 They did have a representative.
20:00:20 There were concerns regarding safety, and lighting.
20:00:24 So they are going to be looking at the lighting, the
20:00:26 distance of lighting between here and Ben T. Davis,
20:00:30 because safety has been an issue and a concern that
20:00:32 was addressed at that meeting as to how FDOT is going
20:00:38 to address this as far as the stud that has been
20:00:44 addressed over here.
20:00:45 That's a possibility that I think will be taken into
20:00:49 consideration. I'm just recalling you what I recall
20:00:51 from the DRC meeting.

20:00:53 I can't remember it specifically but DOT is aware
20:00:55 because they did have a representative at that meeting
20:00:57 regarding the impact that's going to be occurring.
20:01:02 So I just wanted to let you know.
20:01:03 They are aware of that.
20:01:07 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Thank you.
20:01:08 Petitioner?
20:01:08 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Here on behalf of impact
20:01:12 properties.
20:01:14 Basically, if you look at the elevations that we
20:01:18 provided over there, what we have done is increased
20:01:19 the number of floors and the number of levels of
20:01:22 parking.
20:01:23 It didn't trigger any more site changes.
20:01:26 All of our permits have been issued from FDOT, SWFWMD,
20:01:32 from the FAA, so we are in line with all of those
20:01:37 different agencies.
20:01:39 And some of the market conditions changed between the
20:01:41 time this project was first rezoned until now.
20:01:44 And that's why we are before you.
20:01:46 We had sought various administrative waivers.
20:01:49 And those waivers triggered the reason for us to come

20:01:55 back to council because they were beyond the ability
20:01:57 for staff to approve.
20:02:00 But, anyway, the letter that I gave you in terms of
20:02:04 the landscaping, we met with, since we already had
20:02:08 site permits and we already had building construction
20:02:11 permits, he met with Greg Yurcus who was with
20:02:15 construction services at the time and he concurred
20:02:17 with us that it was not wise to keep the trees on the
20:02:20 site during construction.
20:02:21 So we relocate them off site so that they would be
20:02:24 kept in good order and be replanted when the whole
20:02:27 landscape complicate was coming back onto the site.
20:02:31 And I think what was asked for was to assure her that
20:02:36 the trees that were removed were being well cared for,
20:02:39 and we'll get a letter for her and the number of trees
20:02:41 and type of trees that are being stored off site, and
20:02:44 I will get that to her between now and the next week
20:02:47 or so.
20:02:48 But anyway, you have the letter from landscape that
20:02:53 they are in storage.
20:02:54 There is also the company responsible for installing
20:02:56 the new landscaping.

20:02:58 So we have some continuity here.
20:03:01 It not somebody different storing the trees and
20:03:04 bringing it back on the site.
20:03:05 But, anyway, you may recall this was the site of the
20:03:08 old Day's Inn which was the old causeway in which was
20:03:12 world famous for Route 66 TV shows and other things.
20:03:17 That's gone and we would like to redevelop the site
20:03:19 and respectfully request your approval.
20:03:21 And I will be happy to answer any questions you might
20:03:23 have.
20:03:24 It's a beautiful project.
20:03:27 It's quite a stunning compliment to our causeway.
20:03:31 And I think it will bring in some very nice visitors
20:03:34 to our community.
20:03:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
20:03:39 wants to speak on item number 10?
20:03:41 Okay.
20:03:44 >>> Land Development Coordination.
20:03:45 I have been sworn.
20:03:48 Mary Daniels.
20:03:48 I can expect a letter with the detailed information
20:03:51 regarding the number and condition of the trees that

20:03:56 are off-site and also a maintenance agreement, and
20:04:02 accept that without requiring modifications of the
20:04:06 plan.
20:04:07 >> If I could just have a clarification.
20:04:09 Would you want that between first and second reading?
20:04:11 >>> Yes.
20:04:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And is it your intention to come back
20:04:15 to council at second reading and inform them as to
20:04:18 that whether that was done?
20:04:22 >>CHAIRMAN: Mr. Dingfelder.
20:04:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Also, I think Mr. Yurcus is still
20:04:28 relatively local.
20:04:29 Maybe give him a call and confirm.
20:04:31 I was curious going back to Ms. Saul-Sena's concern
20:04:34 and not to get into D.O.T. issues too much.
20:04:37 But when it comes to that point it looks like you have
20:04:41 your own -- at least ingress.
20:04:46 Is that ingress and egress there?
20:04:48 >> Courtney Campbell?
20:04:49 >> We are already committed fairly significantly to
20:04:54 make the improvements on Rocky Point drive.
20:04:56 >> Let's start with my first question.

20:04:57 Do you have your own -- your own dedicated point of
20:05:03 ingress and egress?
20:05:04 >>STEVE MICHELINI: We have a driveway off of Courtney
20:05:07 Campbell.
20:05:08 >> I guess what I would request, it appears where
20:05:11 there's not a driveway there's a fence.
20:05:14 That's what your site plan is showing?
20:05:16 >>> Yes.
20:05:16 >> Okay.
20:05:17 So I'm going to hope that your residents or whoever is
20:05:21 going to be visiting there won't climb the fence.
20:05:24 But what they might do is they might go out that, you
20:05:27 know, that entryway, and perhaps try and cross there
20:05:30 where there's no light.
20:05:32 So I'm going to suggest that perhaps -- since you are
20:05:37 going to be adding additional notes for
20:05:38 transportation, that ultimately you all just put up a
20:05:41 sign that says --
20:05:43 >>STEVE MICHELINI: We are not adding any notes.
20:05:45 >> I thought transportation staff said you were adding
20:05:47 some.
20:05:50 >>> It's on the site plan.

20:05:52 >> I guess just informally then.
20:05:54 I would hope that your client would put up a sign that
20:05:57 says no pedestrian crossing or something along those
20:06:01 lines.
20:06:02 Just as a safety concern.
20:06:04 >>> I can tell you that we were very concerned about
20:06:06 that crossing and for that reason we committed to
20:06:09 paying the fee into the city's system, and to work
20:06:12 with them when that sidewalk or that -- whatever that
20:06:18 area is going to be to landscape our side to be
20:06:21 complicated what was going on on the other side.
20:06:24 The problem with it was the liability of any
20:06:27 pedestrian walkway along Courtney Campbell was
20:06:29 extremely high and Ms. Saul-Sena pointed out the fact
20:06:34 just a few weeks ago that new people were killed
20:06:38 trying to cross there.
20:06:39 It is a very dangerous intersection, very dangerous
20:06:42 section of the highway.
20:06:43 We'll be working with D.O.T. and how they want to
20:06:46 compliment that pedestrian pathway?
20:06:48 You: Don't have a light there at your entrance.
20:06:50 The light is another few blocks down.

20:06:52 >> The light is further to the west.
20:06:53 >> So all I'm saying and I think we all know your
20:06:57 client is a good gentleman.
20:06:59 Just suggest that they put some sign there that says
20:07:01 no pedestrian crossing.
20:07:03 Don't try and cross highway 60 here.
20:07:05 Something along those lines.
20:07:08 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to close the public hearing.
20:07:14 >> So moved.
20:07:14 >> Second.
20:07:14 (Motion carried).
20:07:15 Of the
20:07:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I appreciate you working with the
20:07:29 Department of Transportation.
20:07:31 >> Move an ordinance in the general vicinity ever 7627
20:07:34 Courtney Campbell causeway in the city of Tampa,
20:07:36 Florida from zoning district classifications PD land
20:07:39 development multi-family, restaurant to PD
20:07:42 multifamily, restaurant, providing an effective date.
20:07:46 (Motion carried).
20:07:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Number 12 is a continued public
20:07:51 hearing.

20:07:53 >>JILL FINNEY: Land Development Coordination.
20:08:25 I have been sworn.
20:08:27 We are here on petition Z-06-146 locate at 411 south
20:08:33 Albany Avenue.
20:08:36 It's going from RM-16 residential multifamily to PD
20:08:40 planned development, four multifamily townhouse-style
20:08:44 units.
20:08:45 The petitioner is requesting a waiver to allow for a
20:08:51 payment as the fee in lieu at the time of permitting
20:08:55 for gren space.
20:08:57 The petitioner is proposing to rezone the property to
20:09:00 allow for the development of four 2-story townhouse
20:09:05 units.
20:09:10 The lot is currently 8,142 square feet, and the
20:09:14 setbacks for this will be 5 feet to the north, from
20:09:19 the north, 19 feet from the east, 5 feet from the
20:09:23 south, and 5 feet from the west.
20:09:26 There are eight required parking space was two
20:09:29 required guest parking spaces and all of these are
20:09:32 shown as being provided for on the plan.
20:09:51 Here is the zoning map.
20:10:03 Azeele is to the north.

20:10:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Will you hold onto that aerial?
20:10:13 On the subject block.
20:10:16 >> In the subject block, I'm sure you have driven it
20:10:36 or whatever while you were doing your analysis.
20:10:42 How many of these quads are now present on this one
20:10:47 block stretch of Albany?
20:10:49 It appears to me I'm looking at two.
20:10:51 The ones with the orange roofs?
20:10:55 >> Yes.
20:10:55 I'm not sure, there might be family that are
20:10:58 surrounding the property that are in the immediate --
20:11:02 >> if you point to them, I think I'm seeing two right
20:11:05 there.
20:11:07 But it's every single house on that block of Albany is
20:11:10 still a single-family home, a small single-family
20:11:13 home.
20:11:14 >> How about across the street?
20:11:17 >> Across the street is multifamily.
20:11:19 >> Directly across?
20:11:20 Not there.
20:11:21 Directly across the street.
20:11:28 Thank you.

20:11:36 >>> From what I'm showing on the pictures, directly
20:11:39 across the street, it's in the middle of the property
20:11:42 line and the structures that are across the street are
20:11:46 multifamily.
20:11:47 >> And then next door to the north, that street is
20:11:51 single family?
20:11:52 >> There are two bungalows.
20:11:56 That are directly to the north
20:12:12 Here is a photo of the subject parcel.
20:12:21 This is the bungalow located directly to the north.
20:12:33 On Albany.
20:12:45 Across the street.
20:12:53 It looks like three story.
20:12:56 I'm not sure.
20:13:00 I believe it has a maximum of 35 feet.
20:13:15 The only objection that we do have has an objection
20:13:20 based on the green space label.
20:13:22 Transportation objections were in the report.
20:13:29 >> Why do you object to the green space?
20:13:35 >> It's an issue that they have to object to.
20:13:37 >> I mean why do you object to the green space?
20:13:39 >>> Oh, I do that in support of tree and landscaping.

20:13:43 >> So it's their objection?
20:13:44 >>> Yes.
20:13:45 >> Why are they objecting?
20:13:52 >>> Basically they don't meet the technical aspect of
20:13:55 the code to provide all the green space.
20:13:57 It's a technical objection for that.
20:13:58 They are required to have 3,000 square feet.
20:14:01 They are providing almost 2,000 square feet and asking
20:14:03 for a waiver for a thousand square feet.
20:14:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Are there any objections because of
20:14:11 the architectural character?
20:14:16 I know that we were not successful in having an
20:14:19 architectural structure in Courier City but certain
20:14:23 streets have a preponderance of bungalows.
20:14:26 And I didn't know if there was any consideration.
20:14:32 >>> Well, on this particular site it's really a mix
20:14:35 between townhouses and bungalows.
20:14:38 And I think what the petitioner tried to do was do a
20:14:41 modified bungalow in a townhouse style.
20:14:44 So I think he really tried to feel the character of
20:14:47 the neighborhood while still maintaining the
20:14:49 townhouses.

20:14:52 >> Thank you.
20:14:52 Planning Commission?
20:14:53 >>TONY GARCIA: Planning Commission staff.
20:14:59 I have been sworn.
20:15:02 The two land use categories in this area are
20:15:06 residential 35 of which the subject site consists of,
20:15:10 and Euclidean mixed use 35 which you will find along
20:15:14 your distance corridor of South Howard Avenue of what
20:15:17 is in fairly close proximity of only two blocks away.
20:15:21 The site is also bounded by collector roads of Azeele,
20:15:25 plat, and swan farther to the south, south Leon.
20:15:31 As Ms. Finney has state towed regarding the area, the
20:15:35 area does have integrated use of residential uses.
20:15:38 This has occurred over a series of -- the past five to
20:15:41 eight years where we have seen developments such as
20:15:46 Ms. Finney has alluded to which are town home
20:15:49 developments of various densities as you have seen,
20:15:53 the single family detached bungalow to the north and
20:15:56 of course you have a much larger piece town home
20:16:00 development to the south of the particular site and of
20:16:02 course the site does interface a higher density and
20:16:08 larger mass building directly to the east.

20:16:10 But there are a variety of uses.
20:16:12 The characters of the particular streets in Oscawana
20:16:18 Courier City, there are streets that do have a larger
20:16:21 percentage of single-family homes where you have a
20:16:24 predominant use.
20:16:25 It would be nice if could you keep the single family
20:16:27 detached in that area, where you do have a predominant
20:16:30 use of the single-family attached town homes which has
20:16:37 become previous land through the area.
20:16:39 And I guess you would have to take that into
20:16:41 consideration.
20:16:42 There are some other issues that the neighborhood will
20:16:46 bring to you because I do know they are always
20:16:50 vigilant at these meetings when it involves
20:16:52 development in their area.
20:16:54 Based on the continuity of the area, particularly the
20:16:56 character for this area, Planning Commission staff
20:16:58 could not find an objection based on the density and
20:17:01 the character of the adjacent uses in proximity to the
20:17:04 site.
20:17:04 Planning Commission staff has no objections to the
20:17:06 proposed request.

20:17:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
20:17:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Question for transportation before
20:17:12 petitioner.
20:17:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Transportation?
20:17:21 >>> Transportation.
20:17:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have attended several meetings
20:17:23 and I think you might have been at the last one.
20:17:27 In the Soho Courier City area, where your boss, Mr.
20:17:31 LaMotte, has spoken about the parking problems, the
20:17:35 fire department has gotten up and expressed
20:17:38 significant concern about the on-street parking
20:17:41 problems right in this two or throw-block area
20:17:46 adjacent to Howard, near Howard Avenue, and all the
20:17:50 club traffic that parks up and down these streets
20:17:54 combined with the resident overflow and that sort of
20:17:57 thing.
20:17:57 Have you all analyzed any of that as related to
20:17:59 increased density on this lot?
20:18:04 >>> I'm not sure I understand your question.
20:18:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The question is a long question but
20:18:08 the last part of it was the question.
20:18:10 Have you all analyzed any of these on street issues

20:18:15 that your boss Mr. LaMotte has been very concerned
20:18:17 about, so has Tampa fire and rescue.
20:18:20 Have you analyzed that as to the increased density on
20:18:23 this lot?
20:18:25 >>> And relate it how to -- to relate it to the --
20:18:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: When they have guests, when they
20:18:32 have parties, there's a roof-top party place on top of
20:18:36 this thing that nobody has mentioned but it's on the
20:18:39 site plan.
20:18:41 You know, it's inherent in the nature of these quads
20:18:46 that you don't just have your own four cars or eight
20:18:49 cars, that in addition at any given time somebody is
20:18:53 going to be having guests.
20:18:54 You know, you have got overflow issues out on the
20:18:56 streets.
20:18:58 And our city staff have been addressing this problem.
20:19:02 That's what I'm trying to figure out.
20:19:04 Are we looking at this or are we looking just
20:19:07 myopically of the four corners of this lot?
20:19:10 >>> I do want to bring to forth that he's actually
20:19:14 decreasing the intensity because right now there are
20:19:16 five residential units on the site.

20:19:18 There's with two duplexes and alike garage type.
20:19:23 >> What's the square footage on this lot right now?
20:19:26 >>
20:19:26 >> The overall lot size?
20:19:28 >> No, what's the square footage of the buildings that
20:19:30 are on this lot now?
20:19:31 It's probably about 2,000 square feet.
20:19:33 And you're putting 8,000 square feet on there.
20:19:36 You are not decreasing the density.
20:19:39 You might be decreasing the number of units but right
20:19:41 now each unit has about 300 square feet probably.
20:19:53 >>> I am not saying that's happening but I'm not
20:19:55 personally aware.
20:19:59 >>> Melanie Calloway.
20:20:00 I know exactly what you're talking about.
20:20:02 Because we have other -- and you know during the
20:20:05 years, we have gone through other four-plexes around
20:20:08 this area in the Courier City, at that time we didn't
20:20:11 have such things as guest parking with that knew code.
20:20:15 They have the right of guest parking for these
20:20:17 properties.
20:20:18 >> Where is the guest parking on this? It's just

20:20:20 stacked.
20:20:22 >>> I believe if you look at your plans, they are
20:20:25 providing a two-car garage, plus another space in the
20:20:28 driveway.
20:20:29 >> I mean the stacking the driveway.
20:20:34 >>> Right.
20:20:34 The people are committed to, if I'm not mistaken, to
20:20:38 park in their garages, the HOA.
20:20:42 But they have complied by the code, by providing these
20:20:47 spaces.
20:20:47 And that's what we have required them to do.
20:20:51 >>CHAIRMAN: Petitioner?
20:20:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: People who live here promise to
20:20:58 park two cars in their garage.
20:21:02 >>> We in certain case versus required the
20:21:04 homeowner -- the developer owner to write in their
20:21:06 deed restrictions because they are an HOA, for their
20:21:09 little complex to be able to park their vehicles in
20:21:12 their garages.
20:21:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It's not real.
20:21:21 >>> They provide a two-car garage.
20:21:25 That does comply by the code.

20:21:27 And they have complied by the code.
20:21:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
20:21:41 >>> Michael Hunter, Dale Mabry representing the
20:21:48 corporation.
20:21:49 Allow me to make a brief presentation.
20:21:53 The elevation is in front of me, to my side.
20:21:57 Hopefully all of you can have a clear vision of it.
20:22:02 Mr. la Fay.
20:22:08 With me is Mr. La Fay, and the development group.
20:22:14 Unfortunately you our architect is on business in
20:22:17 North Carolina but I think his work stands before you
20:22:19 and is well represented.
20:22:22 The package before you this evening, council, shows
20:22:24 the elevation, shows what we call design detail sheet
20:22:26 on page 2.
20:22:28 Also provides additional elevation, the details on
20:22:31 page 3.
20:22:32 And does a site plan comparison table on page 4.
20:22:36 They address Mr. Dingfelder's comments as well.
20:22:38 The history of this, we do have five units.
20:22:41 And yes, Mr. Dingfelder, there are some smaller units
20:22:44 on this site but still five and the people who live in

20:22:46 a 400 square foot or 600 square foot apartment still
20:22:50 have friend and still have guests.
20:22:51 We'll show you photographs in a moment that does show
20:22:53 where they are parking right now.
20:22:55 They only have one covered parking space.
20:22:58 They are scattered throughout.
20:22:59 They are backing on the alley, on the side, in the
20:23:01 front.
20:23:01 We are proposing four garages, two-car garages, eight
20:23:06 spaces, plus two guest parking, and tandem parking
20:23:11 directly in front.
20:23:11 The historical respective of this is wave gone through
20:23:17 we have sent the photographs, sent the e-mails to him,
20:23:19 he's done his own field investigation.
20:23:22 Structures are not in good condition, dilapidated.
20:23:25 My clients have put some money into it just to hold it
20:23:27 and keep it out of code enforcement actions but we are
20:23:30 taking the five-month structure and proposing four
20:23:32 single-family, two-story town home, single-family
20:23:37 owned, occupied, and own by fee simple deed.
20:23:40 If I can go to the zoning map.
20:23:45 The first questions that I heard were, we are

20:23:49 surrounded by single-family detached.
20:23:54 Then the island in the sea of single-family detached.
20:23:58 I would say we are the island and the sea of attached
20:24:01 town homes.
20:24:02 This is where we are north of Horatio.
20:24:05 We are looking north at Azeele, Horatio.
20:24:09 We have Albany.
20:24:12 We have surrounding town homes in about 40 parcels
20:24:17 within a two-block area within Platt and de Leon.
20:24:22 We have PD developments right across the street
20:24:25 northwest, directly east if not a single-family home,
20:24:32 multifamily project.
20:24:33 This project to the southeast, understood the trees in
20:24:38 the area of the photograph.
20:24:39 That's actually a 3-story structure, the parapet.
20:24:43 It's probably about -- I would estimate 38 to 40 feet
20:24:46 tall.
20:24:47 A very tall structure.
20:24:48 Might be a little taller than that.
20:24:52 We have Albany apartments south of Horatio.
20:24:55 We have two-large scale developments directly south.
20:24:59 We have large-scale developments assets.

20:25:03 We have multifamily apartments, RM-24 to the west.
20:25:07 This area has been inundated with town homes and quite
20:25:11 honestly my client has said the three-story and the 45
20:25:17 feet, let's try to do something that at least embodied
20:25:20 the architectural style.
20:25:22 We have spent a lot of time, a lot of money, trying to
20:25:26 come up with the design that we think addresses all
20:25:29 the objections in the staff report.
20:25:34 Transportation removed their objections.
20:25:35 I will let Melanie address any more specific comments
20:25:38 you may have of council.
20:25:41 Let's go through a through things since you had
20:25:44 concern.
20:25:45 On the existing development, this is the rear of the
20:25:50 existing attached unit of the west.
20:25:56 This would be the alley directly behind it.
20:25:58 You see the convergence of the subject site.
20:26:01 You can see the attached unit block building directly
20:26:05 south of us.
20:26:05 You can also see that PD to the southwest which has
20:26:08 the same parking orientation that we are asking for,
20:26:11 directly back down the alley, directly back down the

20:26:14 alley.
20:26:15 We will have a greater setback and in fact garages
20:26:19 there that will be enclosed.
20:26:25 You can see the structures, the outhouse, anytime a
20:26:29 unit is created, an electrical service block is put
20:26:33 in.
20:26:38 This is the rear portion kind of looking from the
20:26:40 alley.
20:26:43 You can see the parking is one part.
20:26:45 It's just random.
20:26:46 This is how they park.
20:26:48 No defined spaces.
20:26:50 No real striping.
20:26:52 No orientation.
20:26:54 Certainly no capability of meeting code standards.
20:26:59 We show you a southern elevation that picks up the
20:27:03 character of the structure directly next to us.
20:27:06 This is the quads directly to the south.
20:27:09 You can see this from the height elevation.
20:27:12 This is about 30 to 32 structures.
20:27:17 We are proposing a 25-foot structure, with 3-foot
20:27:20 parapet.

20:27:21 So two story.
20:27:22 Even a small two-story.
20:27:27 That's a front door of one of the units.
20:27:32 In the back, again, a larger photo.
20:27:35 We can see cars are parked helter skelter.
20:27:40 Guest parking.
20:27:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do you have a picture of the
20:27:51 single-family home?
20:28:00 >>> This is looking directly north or directly west.
20:28:04 The structure.
20:28:07 Here we are with the lot to the north of the rental
20:28:10 structure.
20:28:13 They have different plans as well.
20:28:14 Right now it's mortgage, taxes, now they are being
20:28:18 pushed a little bit.
20:28:18 It not fee simple owned.
20:28:20 It's not owner occupied.
20:28:24 >> What about staff showed us a little while ago?
20:28:26 Do you have a picture of that one?
20:28:28 We have all these great pictures but not the bungalow
20:28:31 next door.
20:28:33 >>> I don't have a direct picture.

20:28:34 I think staff had a pretty good photo of it.
20:28:41 >> Three story, 30 fate to the southeast of that.
20:28:49 Another picture.
20:28:54 Directly across the street.
20:28:56 This is another picture of it.
20:28:57 We are now looking due east.
20:29:02 Another quad in the immediate neighborhood.
20:29:08 Right to the south.
20:29:10 On the side of Albany.
20:29:11 This is Horatio.
20:29:13 Again about 50 feet away.
20:29:14 The Albany apartments of the apartments, town homes.
20:29:18 We can just show you on and on and on.
20:29:21 We have trade to capture the architectural style of
20:29:24 this neighborhood.
20:29:26 We really worked hard to come up with a site plan that
20:29:28 we think addresses the need for the parking.
20:29:36 Again completely enclosed two-car garage.
20:29:41 Each of these -- eight owner occupied, and two
20:29:48 additional, which meets the transportation-required
20:29:53 standard.
20:29:55 If you want to look at --

20:29:57 >> I'm sorry.
20:29:58 This picture, this is eight units or this is four?
20:30:03 And there's going to be something just like it next
20:30:05 door.
20:30:06 >> Two in the front and two hundred dollar you.
20:30:08 >> Two and two.
20:30:10 Look at the second page, Mrs. Saul-Sena.
20:30:12 You will see the actual elevation.
20:30:13 These are the two units in the front.
20:30:19 This will be the orientation.
20:30:22 This will be to have alley.
20:30:25 This is the front.
20:30:26 This is the back.
20:30:26 This is the side.
20:30:28 >> Tell us about the spiral stairways.
20:30:31 >> Interesting comment.
20:30:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You just had it up there.
20:30:40 >>> I will have Mr. McFay address whether he wants to
20:30:43 have a party showcase outside patio.
20:30:45 This was an architectural item that we thought made
20:30:48 sense, since the open space is lented.
20:30:52 This is an area that's behind the front gable.

20:30:54 It allows a little open air court yard appeal as well
20:30:57 as small patio slab on the side.
20:31:00 We think it makes sense.
20:31:01 Rooftop terraces are coming in.
20:31:04 They are kind of the urban context for downtown
20:31:06 living.
20:31:07 We think it makes sense.
20:31:09 A design style that we think has merit in marketing
20:31:13 the project.
20:31:14 These will be 450,000 units each.
20:31:17 This area, councilman, has been zoned RM-16 and the
20:31:21 plan res 35.
20:31:25 If the effort now is to down-plan or down zone, then I
20:31:29 think -- and somewhat on that land use counter because
20:31:35 we are literally surround by 40 to 45 town home
20:31:40 projects.
20:31:40 Although multi family is south, to the southwest, all
20:31:46 apartments to the south of Horatio.
20:31:49 Very difficult for my client to move forward and do a
20:31:53 single family modified new construction at the priss
20:31:56 point that they are looking for, and to price the
20:31:59 property, looking at the orientation of that

20:32:01 structure.
20:32:02 It's 30 to 35 feet directly south of their proposed
20:32:06 lot.
20:32:10 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Is this fee simple?
20:32:12 Or are you --
20:32:15 >>> Fee simple owner occupied title transfer.
20:32:18 >> And maybe could you help me a little bit.
20:32:20 I'm trying to find the depth of this from the front to
20:32:27 the back.
20:32:28 >>> If you look at the --
20:32:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You can't assure council that its
20:32:41 owner occupied.
20:32:44 You can assure it's fee simple and somebody is going
20:32:46 to buy each unit.
20:32:49 >>> And single family detached.
20:33:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's not how our society works.
20:33:20 >>> About 120 feet plus or minus.
20:33:23 >>MARY ALVAREZ: Two bedroom units, or three bedroom
20:33:26 units, or two bedroom, two bath, whatever?
20:33:29 >>> Three bedroom two, and a half bath, councilwoman.
20:33:32 >> Three bedroom, two and a half bath?
20:33:41 >>> I will have Mr. La Fay make a few comments to you.

20:33:45 He's the project developer.
20:33:46 He's been working hard on this.
20:33:48 He's been very active in historic preservation.
20:33:52 He was the inspiration of the design that we have come
20:33:55 up with.
20:34:02 >> As Mr. Horner indicated I'm the partner in the
20:34:04 project.
20:34:04 I did a -- I have been a commercial lender in the
20:34:07 market for six years, financed many of the projects
20:34:10 that's come before City Council.
20:34:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry to interrupt you but if
20:34:13 could you state your full name for the record and
20:34:15 whether you have been sworn.
20:34:16 >>> I'm sorry.
20:34:16 I have not.
20:34:19 Chris la Fay and I have not been sworn.
20:34:23 (Oath administered by Clerk)
20:34:25 >>> Sorry about that.
20:34:28 As Mr. Horner also indicated, I am a board member on
20:34:32 Tampa Preservation, am the treasurer and sit on the
20:34:35 board of the revolving fund where of course we
20:34:38 passionately fought to presearch our historic

20:34:41 architecture in Tampa, at least what we have left.
20:34:47 I do have a historic bungalow in Seminole Heights,
20:34:50 have gone through the pains of restoring it myself.
20:34:53 Through that experience I have learned architectural
20:34:57 integrity as well as architectural character.
20:35:00 I tell you this because I do believe in preservation.
20:35:02 And, however, I also believe in thoughtful
20:35:05 redevelopment.
20:35:07 What I have heard time and time again in front of City
20:35:09 Council, in front of the residents, from you
20:35:11 individually, pertaining to this neighborhood, is no
20:35:16 three-story structures.
20:35:17 Bungalow style homes in South Tampa, as well as
20:35:20 garages to alleviate the parking situation.
20:35:24 With this sensitivity in mind, we have spent a
20:35:27 considerable amount of time, considerable amount of
20:35:29 resources that accrued, a lot of expenses.
20:35:32 We sacrificed profitability to incorporate the desires
20:35:36 of the surrounding neighborhood, the homeowners
20:35:39 association, City Council's role is trying to maintain
20:35:43 or stay within the city code, the building code.
20:35:48 What we are proposing, as you can see, and Mr. Horner

20:35:52 detailed, a two-story structure, as opposed to the
20:35:55 three-stories, the existing zoning actually won't
20:35:57 allow to us go up -- will allow to us go up to three
20:36:00 stories.
20:36:01 We feel that is not within the character of the
20:36:03 neighborhood to do it.
20:36:04 Existing zoning actually allows us to provide a
20:36:07 structure that's 40% larger than we are proposing.
20:36:10 We are reducing density from five small 3, 400 square
20:36:15 foot rental units.
20:36:18 Owned the property for about eight months.
20:36:20 It's very transient because of the size, because of
20:36:22 the market rates.
20:36:23 We have a high amount of turnover.
20:36:24 There's been a large amount of extensive management in
20:36:27 terms of retenanting the property as well as each time
20:36:31 the tenant leaves there's a considerable amount of
20:36:34 clean-up, and repair that has had to have taken place.
20:36:40 We are increasing parking from four units right now as
20:36:42 you can see.
20:36:43 There's one to you in the back, and kind of
20:36:46 haphazardly going in there. One in the driveway.

20:36:49 One covered.
20:36:49 We are proposing ten.
20:36:50 Of course eight of those are in the garage.
20:36:52 We are maintaining the existing setbacks, actually
20:36:56 improving the setbacks in the rear of the property.
20:36:59 With that in mind, we tried to provide a design that's
20:37:03 sensitive to the homeowners to the architectural
20:37:08 character of the neighborhood, and with that in
20:37:10 consideration, I hope you vote in favor of it.
20:37:14 In terms of the -- it's not our intention to have a
20:37:18 party roof obviously because of the size of the
20:37:22 property and the orientation to the size.
20:37:25 We don't have a whole lot of outdoor living space.
20:37:28 We felt that the rooftop terrace would provide an
20:37:32 opportunity to have some sort of outdoor living,
20:37:37 outdoor exposure, we are planning to divide the
20:37:42 property so there are independent rooftop terraces,
20:37:46 not one big party deck for everyone to have a large
20:37:50 bash on.
20:37:51 So that being said, any questions for me personally?
20:37:53 >>CHAIRMAN: Is there anyone in the public that wants
20:37:54 to speak on item number 12?

20:38:11 >>> My name is Walter Crumbley and I have been sworn.
20:38:15 I brought along a few of my own pictures.
20:38:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Put them on the overhead, Mr. Crumbley.
20:38:29 >>> I am the president of Courier City Oscawana
20:38:32 homeowners association.
20:38:42 We've met with the proposed building a number of times
20:38:45 and it's zoned RM-16 duplex.
20:38:48 They want to go to a planned development of four
20:38:51 units.
20:38:53 The city code provides that a planned development is,
20:39:00 or the purpose is to promote and encourage development
20:39:02 that's compatible in a location, characteristics of
20:39:08 the surrounding and passive neighborhood around it,
20:39:13 the existing geography, and the testimony of adjacent
20:39:17 residents in the neighborhood association.
20:39:20 By history, if you look at the pictures I'm passing
20:39:23 around to you, these are bungalows, and I took
20:39:27 pictures of all the bungalows that are on that
20:39:30 particular block, eight to be exact.
20:39:36 They don't have any garage doors in the front.
20:39:39 They all have porches.
20:39:41 And they don't have any primary entrances in the back,

20:39:44 in the alley.
20:39:46 And that said, our objections are quite frankly 50% of
20:39:52 the front of this building is garage doors.
20:39:55 I don't care what you do to a garage door.
20:39:57 It's still a garage door and it looks terrible.
20:40:00 And we're sick of it in our neighborhood.
20:40:02 Because it just destroys the community.
20:40:08 The mass and scale of the project, although it's not
20:40:12 like the Titanic, it's pretty close to it next door.
20:40:18 That one is 45 feet hey.
20:40:20 We are only going to go 30.
20:40:22 What a favor you are doing us.
20:40:24 Only going up 30 feet.
20:40:30 Another objection that we have is the density and
20:40:37 parking only gets worse.
20:40:40 We met with transportation.
20:40:43 We have talked with them.
20:40:44 Oh, yeah, we are going to put one-sided parking and
20:40:47 put up three signs and that's it.
20:40:52 And it's just as bad.
20:40:56 Parking is so bad since last July.
20:40:58 I have a five-minute parking sign out in front of my

20:41:01 house.
20:41:02 And I have had 127 parking tickets issued in six
20:41:06 months.
20:41:12 The two units have their primary entrance on the
20:41:15 alley.
20:41:16 And I included a picture of the alley because it's
20:41:18 always nice to open your front door in the morning and
20:41:20 get your paper and look at the trash against your
20:41:25 dumpster and the raccoons that get in the trash and
20:41:27 the possums that get in the trash that's all over the
20:41:31 place.
20:41:32 And this is not exactly what we have in mind for our
20:41:36 neighborhood, is to have an admiration of the garbage
20:41:41 in the morning.
20:41:44 The overall appearance, if I may, is besides the
20:41:49 master scale is totally incompatible with the
20:41:52 neighborhood.
20:41:52 (Bell sounds).
20:41:53 If you want to continue to put primary entrances on
20:41:56 the alley, then you should consider that we would like
20:41:58 to have them well paved, well drained, well lit, put
20:42:05 us in a little sidewalk in there, and possibly you

20:42:07 could even work out some way to have a curb.
20:42:12 And if you are going to do that as well, make
20:42:15 everybody take their garbage inside, including guys
20:42:22 against their dumpsters. The meeting with the
20:42:24 developer was some concern.
20:42:25 We asked instead of having four units, you only have
20:42:30 two duplex.
20:42:32 And it was pointed out to us that that was not
20:42:34 economically feasible.
20:42:35 And I guess not when you pay 500 to $12,525,000 for
20:42:41 that property.
20:42:42 May I bring your attention, however --
20:42:46 >> your time is up, Mr. Crumbley.
20:42:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like him to ask a question.
20:42:52 Could you just complete that sentence?
20:42:55 >>> Ma'am?
20:42:55 >> Could you just complete your thought?
20:42:57 >>> Yes.
20:42:58 I would like to bring your attention to a Florida
20:43:00 Supreme Court case, 399 Southern 2nd, 1374, decided in
20:43:09 1981.
20:43:10 And it stands for the proposition that if the poor old

20:43:16 building buys the property and he can't develop it
20:43:18 without getting a variances and everything that he
20:43:21 wants, that's too bad.
20:43:23 You're not here to protect his unwarranted expectation
20:43:28 that he could pay a huge sum for property and then
20:43:32 expect you to have mercy on him and bail him out.
20:43:37 >>CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Crumbley.
20:43:39 Next.
20:43:44 >>> Good evening, council.
20:43:46 I haven't been before you for quite awhile.
20:43:48 I'm sorry I'm here tonight.
20:43:50 Because I'm in a position of feeling torn.
20:43:53 My name is Paula Stockel.
20:43:57 I moved into my house at 308 south Albany in 1989 when
20:44:02 this particular property was a crack house.
20:44:05 It is not a contributing structure in our
20:44:07 neighborhood.
20:44:10 My neighbors and I do not want to see the place remain
20:44:18 as it is.
20:44:18 It does nothing to enhance the quality of our living.
20:44:21 However, the proposal that's before you tonight does
20:44:25 not do much to enhance the quality of our neighborhood

20:44:29 living either.
20:44:30 I want to commend the petitioner for the outreach that
20:44:35 they provided.
20:44:36 If we had been able to deal with petitioners of this
20:44:40 nature all along the way, we would be in so much
20:44:43 better shape in our neighborhood.
20:44:45 However, the main issue is all garage, all the time.
20:44:52 Don MORRELL owns the bungalow at south Albany.
20:44:57 He's unable to make it tonight due to a prior
20:45:00 commitment but something he said on the telephone this
20:45:01 morning struck very, very much home.
20:45:04 This is architecture for cars, not architecture for
20:45:08 people.
20:45:09 And Whaley do agree that some accommodation has been
20:45:13 given to create a bungalow type facade that face it is
20:45:19 street, it remains a box.
20:45:21 This property is zoned for a duplex.
20:45:25 A duplex would be wonderful, particularly of the type
20:45:28 that has moved into the Hyde Park area.
20:45:32 It would be a wonderful addition.
20:45:34 And property values in our neighborhood could support
20:45:37 that.

20:45:38 Town home sales in our neighborhood are nonexistent.
20:45:42 The monstrosity across the street from this particular
20:45:45 property, the three-story ugly building that somehow
20:45:49 got passed you guys a couple of years ago has been
20:45:52 completed since probably around the time of Halloween.
20:45:58 About two weeks ago.
20:45:59 Someone finally moved into one of the units.
20:46:01 The remaining four units are still up for sale and
20:46:05 remain vacant.
20:46:06 There are a large number of town homes in our
20:46:08 neighborhood that are on the market right now.
20:46:14 April block, who lives next door to me at 306 south
20:46:17 Albany, asked me to read a statement.
20:46:20 The residents of our neighborhood were recently
20:46:23 invited to a meeting about the city traffic situation.
20:46:27 We were advised in this meeting that the city plans to
20:46:29 erect signs down the street at this neighborhood
20:46:33 prohibiting parking on both sides of the street.
20:46:36 Parking will be allowed on one side of the street in
20:46:40 this neighborhood due to the inability of the fire
20:46:42 department to maneuver an use equipment if parking is
20:46:45 allowed on both sides.

20:46:46 Each time a lot is rezoned to allow the development of
20:46:48 a four-unit condominium, the lot usually becomes home
20:46:52 to eight vehicles.
20:46:53 We cannot continue to increase the parking needs of
20:46:55 this neighborhood.
20:46:56 We should only rezone or the zoning would reduce the
20:47:01 density.
20:47:01 And while they are reducing the densities from five
20:47:04 units to four units, it is not reducing the density of
20:47:06 the property use.
20:47:08 And the impact upon the neighborhood.
20:47:10 Thanks very much.
20:47:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: For the record I'm sorry but did you
20:47:15 not state whether you were sworn.
20:47:16 >>> I'm sorry.
20:47:17 I was not sworn.
20:47:18 Do I have to take it all back and say it again?
20:47:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: No, you have to be sworn in and then
20:47:23 confirm that you have been sworn.
20:47:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: anyone who wants to speak get sworn
20:47:31 from the get-go.
20:47:32 >>> I didn't know if I should as well or not.

20:47:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Swear her in, please.
20:47:39 (Oath administered by Clerk).
20:47:46 >>> I affirm that I have said the whole truth and
20:47:48 nothing but the truth.
20:47:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question for this lady.
20:47:52 Ma'am, is thest general form of the homes on
20:47:58 Albany to have a detached garage in the back?
20:48:06 >>> Yes, it is.
20:48:06 All of the bungalows have ribbon drives that lead to
20:48:13 what used to be considered a garage.
20:48:14 However, the size of vehicles these days is such that
20:48:17 not everybody can get their vehicles into those
20:48:19 garages.
20:48:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Detached --
20:48:22 >>> It is detached.
20:48:22 And it is in the back.
20:48:26 So you drive into the backyard to your garage.
20:48:30 >> Thank you.
20:48:30 Mr. Dingfelder.
20:48:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Would you put these photos up?
20:48:36 Put these photos up on the overhead and go through
20:48:39 them?

20:48:50 This is what I was trying to get out of staff before
20:48:52 as to the character of the street.
20:48:54 When Ms. Coyle used to present these to us, she came
20:48:57 around on this neighborhood, and I don't know what's
20:48:59 happened in regard to staff.
20:49:04 I think you need to talk to her.
20:49:05 She said, after awhile, she started doing the analysis
20:49:08 of what was happening up and down the street.
20:49:11 And these streets.
20:49:12 And yes, there might be one or two of these nearby.
20:49:16 But if you could run through, now, these properties
20:49:23 and tell where they sit.
20:49:24 >> This is the proposed property at 411 and we agree.
20:49:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We all know it's not going to stay.
20:49:33 >>> This is the bungalow immediately to it north at
20:49:35 409 south Albany.
20:49:39 >>SHAWN HARRISON: It's not part of this rezoning.
20:49:40 That one there is next to it.
20:49:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This is not part of it.
20:49:44 >>> This is not part of the rezoning. This is an
20:49:46 existing house that is being lived in and will remain.
20:49:50 This you are going to hear more from us in a couple of

20:49:53 weeks.
20:49:54 This sew historically contributing structure at 403
20:49:58 south Albany.
20:49:59 And immediately to its north is one of the
20:50:04 organization fire houses in Tampa, which is now a
20:50:08 business office.
20:50:13 Yes, this is Bob Buckhorn's house.
20:50:17 And until --
20:50:21 Until six months ago this house did not look like
20:50:24 this.
20:50:24 Until six months ago Bob Buckhorn still would have
20:50:26 lived in it.
20:50:30 This is 405 south Albany.
20:50:33 Where Don MORRELL lives, the one he said is
20:50:38 architecture for cars, not people.
20:50:39 >> How far away is that?
20:50:41 Three houses up?
20:50:42 >>> In a, two.
20:50:44 Don's house.
20:50:48 409.
20:50:49 And then petitioner's property.
20:50:55 Again 407 south Albany.

20:50:58 412 south Albany is directly across the street.
20:51:04 This originally was a bungalow.
20:51:06 It been broken into, several apartment units.
20:51:11 Immediately to its south is the three-story, five unit
20:51:18 building that's been completed for about six months
20:51:20 and only one unit has sold.
20:51:21 This is the bungalow directly across the street also
20:51:25 at 406 south Albany.
20:51:27 It is Mediterranean style.
20:51:29 However, it is the old span usual style that went up
20:51:35 in Tampa during the 1920s which is when our
20:51:37 neighborhood was developed.
20:51:39 This is another bungalow across the street at 404
20:51:43 south Albany, and again this, I believe, is two
20:51:46 apartments.
20:51:48 But it still has maintained the bungalow style.
20:51:59 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Do we have a picture of the one
20:52:00 immediately to the south of this, that's on the
20:52:02 corner?
20:52:05 >>> Not in this episode.
20:52:10 >> It's not a quad.
20:52:11 >>> It is a quad townhouse unit.

20:52:12 And Michael showed one of the photographs.
20:52:16 It's a box.
20:52:19 It supposedly has columns that basically are about the
20:52:21 size of your banister.
20:52:25 >>CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
20:52:28 Would anyone else like to speak?
20:52:29 Petitioner, do you want rebuttal?
20:52:43 >>> We understand their concerns.
20:52:44 And I think I want to take a step back and look at
20:52:47 what my client is facing in this neighborhood.
20:52:51 We only can meet the code requirements.
20:52:54 And the code requirements require garages and enclosed
20:52:58 parking and ratios.
20:52:59 That's what wave to meet.
20:53:00 That's what we have to provide.
20:53:02 The guest parking spaces, my client certainly is
20:53:05 willing to do that.
20:53:06 How they do it, wants to do it because he recognizes
20:53:09 without that guest parking he's not going to be able
20:53:11 to sell units.
20:53:12 When we look at the context of what is surrounding
20:53:14 this neighborhood, right next door, if we were middle

20:53:21 block, I don't think they would be before you this
20:53:23 evening.
20:53:24 Somewhere in this equation there has to be some
20:53:30 equity, some fairness, and for my client to be forced
20:53:33 to market, it would require -- let me finish -- a
20:53:41 substantial price current that we think would not be
20:53:45 in the neighborhood for people to afford.
20:53:50 Two units on this property can still go to 35-foot
20:53:54 tall, result in a larger structure, same enclosed
20:53:57 parking, same cellular impervious surface.
20:54:02 We are doing underdrain.
20:54:04 And the only difference would be the price of those
20:54:06 units would be higher.
20:54:08 The net benefit would be a taller structure, bigger
20:54:11 units, and the same garage orientations.
20:54:14 We don't have a dumpster.
20:54:16 We want improve that alley, if anyone else is going to
20:54:19 be assessed with that improvement, let's make it a
20:54:22 global policy for those property owners to establish a
20:54:25 CDD or tax assessment district.
20:54:28 No one is opposed to that.
20:54:30 But as far as our client, who is directly across from

20:54:33 a rental, directly across from a quad, directly
20:54:36 southeast of a quad, a 40-foot building, directly next
20:54:39 to a 34-foot building he comes in with a bungalow
20:54:42 style, pitched roof, patio, porchways, brick columns,
20:54:49 wood doors, decorative materials, and say you are just
20:54:55 going to have to find something to relate to those
20:54:58 other structures.
20:54:59 That's difficult.
20:55:03 I think we have done our best effort at trying to
20:55:06 resolve the conflict of architectural style, with what
20:55:09 is there, not a flat roof.
20:55:12 If you don't want the la Fay res strength.
20:55:24 People want to have a rooftop experience.
20:55:25 They want top see the stars when they are downtown.
20:55:28 In any event, we are not, in my opinion, producing
20:55:33 something on this elevation that is out of character
20:55:36 with that neighborhood.
20:55:37 If anything, we are the transition, we are the buffer
20:55:40 from those boxes.
20:55:43 And Paul, thank you for your honest assessment because
20:55:45 we had a good meeting at -- we did a beautiful
20:55:49 renovation.

20:55:50 And the comments were, thank God you're not doing some
20:55:53 of this.
20:55:55 My client won't have it.
20:55:57 It's why we hired one of the best architects in town,
20:55:59 sat down, said this is what we are going to do, and
20:56:03 make this thing fit in, this is what's going to sell
20:56:05 the neighborhood.
20:56:06 We are the transition to the single family detached.
20:56:10 I will have Mr. La Fay say a few words and we'll
20:56:13 close.
20:56:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You used the term forced.
20:56:20 We shouldn't force your client to do X, Y and Z.
20:56:23 And I think Mr. Crumbley brought up a good point.
20:56:27 Not this council did not force your client to buy this
20:56:30 parcel.
20:56:30 And they bought it and I'm going to assume he bought
20:56:33 it knowing it was RM-16.
20:56:34 He said he's a commercial lender.
20:56:36 I don't think he bought it without knowing it's RM-16.
20:56:39 So he bought it with the zoning that's on there and
20:56:41 that's the only expectation he can have, right?
20:56:44 >>> That he did RM-16 and it's RM-16.

20:56:49 There's no expectation that any council ever change
20:56:51 that.
20:56:53 I just want to clarify that because we didn't twist
20:56:55 his arm to buy it.
20:56:56 When did he purchase it, by the way?
20:56:59 >>> July of last year.
20:57:00 >> July of '06 so he's had it six months.
20:57:03 >>> Right.
20:57:03 >> Okay.
20:57:05 And when you talk about the character of the
20:57:07 neighborhood, I think it was a little misleading
20:57:11 because yes, you brought us a lot of pictures of the
20:57:14 other quads in the neighborhood.
20:57:16 And I think many of those quads have been a big
20:57:19 mistake.
20:57:20 But I think the character of the neighborhood also
20:57:23 includes the photographs that Mr. Crumbley and Paula
20:57:26 showed us of the rest of the street.
20:57:27 So don't just show us half the story.
20:57:29 I don't think that's fair, Michael.
20:57:31 >>> Mr. Dingfelder, there is no question, we
20:57:33 recognize, acknowledge and accept that in these areas

20:57:38 between converting fire house to the office building
20:57:44 to the big boxes, it's single-family detached.
20:57:47 The question is -- how would it relate to those
20:57:51 detached homes?
20:57:52 I think by scale, intensity.
20:57:55 >> I think your client has done a very nice job on
20:57:57 this drawing that I'm seeing except for the fact that
20:57:59 it is basically four garages facing the street.
20:58:03 But the front porch is a nice feature.
20:58:05 The bungalow porch and the top porch on the second
20:58:08 floor, those are all nice features.
20:58:09 It has the little flat board look.
20:58:14 It's a nice feature.
20:58:15 I compliment Mr. La Fay for doing that and Paula as
20:58:19 well.
20:58:19 The problem that I see, and you all did this over on
20:58:23 Willow.
20:58:24 On Willow, we faced the same issue. The gentleman
20:58:26 started with a quad over there.
20:58:28 And we ended up with two units on that same property.
20:58:34 But ended up sitting here building two larger units
20:58:38 that the neighborhood was satisfied with, that

20:58:40 architecturally fit into the neighborhood.
20:58:43 And I don't know what Tampa solution for this is.
20:58:45 But I do know that if you can put up the picture,
20:58:51 Michael.
20:58:53 This is what concerns me.
20:58:55 One of the biggest things that concerns me about this.
20:58:57 Is that five-view on the top there.
20:59:00 And Ms. Alvarez asked how long that side structure is.
20:59:04 You said yourself that runs 100 feet or so.
20:59:07 >>> 120 feet.
20:59:08 >> 120 feet of building.
20:59:09 Okay.
20:59:10 Plus 20-something feet tall on the side.
20:59:13 And you don't have a lot of architectural appointments
20:59:15 on the side.
20:59:16 Because it's the side.
20:59:17 But I stood on the side of one of these the other day
20:59:20 looking at it from a bungalow perspective.
20:59:22 And it's just massive.
20:59:25 And the reason it's massive is that it's four units.
20:59:28 It's four units crammed in on what was traditionally a
20:59:36 single family lot, and unfortunately got bastardized

20:59:40 over the years.
20:59:42 I admit that.
20:59:43 But these were originally plotted at single family
20:59:47 lots.
21:00:02 If it's a single unit on the front and then have the
21:00:05 two units behind it or something like that for a total
21:00:08 of three units it might be better.
21:00:10 I think two units would probably be the best solution.
21:00:13 Where you have a bungalow, a true bungalow look in the
21:00:16 front and then stick another unit behind it.
21:00:18 I don't know.
21:00:19 I have just got some severe problems with this.
21:00:21 And the fact that this neighborhood is getting
21:00:24 destroyed one cut at a time.
21:00:27 It's getting destroyed one cut at a time.
21:00:29 And you can say you're not in the middle of the block,
21:00:31 but guess what, another six months from now when you
21:00:34 have another client who wants to take out another
21:00:36 bungalow, it will be in the middle of a block because
21:00:39 now these other units will have taken up the corners.
21:00:41 And then you will be in the middle of the block and
21:00:43 pretty soon we won't have any bungalows left.

21:00:46 >> Mr. Dingfelder, once again, we are not here in
21:00:49 absentia based on the existing land uses out there.
21:00:53 The only reason we are here is the prior action of
21:00:56 council, the RM-16 zoning, the existing residential
21:01:01 35, 35 units per acre since 1950s.
21:01:05 If I was buying a sing family bungalow on this lot, on
21:01:10 any lot in that immediate area I would go to my lender
21:01:13 and say I'm extremely concerned.
21:01:14 What is the reasonable probability?
21:01:16 We are not starting with a clean slate. That pattern
21:01:19 has already been established.
21:01:20 Now we have the charge of how we relate to these big
21:01:24 boxes and these big structures.
21:01:25 >> What could be built on that with the RM-16?
21:01:28 I heard somebody say that a duplex could be built.
21:01:31 >>>
21:01:32 >> Three units.
21:01:34 >> I want to ask staff because I'm seeing different
21:01:36 nods.
21:01:36 Is it two units or three units for RM-16?
21:01:40 >>> On this site they would be able to get three
21:01:42 units.

21:01:46 >> No green space waivers?
21:01:48 >>> I'm not sure.
21:01:49 I haven't seen it properly laid out.
21:01:54 Are you talking about PD?
21:01:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No, Euclidean.
21:01:58 >>> That may be a little difficult because they do
21:02:00 have a 25-foot front setback with two-fat rear
21:02:03 setback.
21:02:04 >> So what could they get?
21:02:06 >>> Well, unless I have seen a site plan I'm unable to
21:02:10 say.
21:02:10 It depends on how basic structures are.
21:02:12 >>SHAWN HARRISON: In theory you can get three but in
21:02:16 practicality probably two.
21:02:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm feeling really magnanimous
21:02:23 tonight which is why I'm feeling like council needs to
21:02:25 take a stand in Courier City and say, now what?
21:02:29 There's in reason why people are entitled to waving
21:02:33 one-third of the green space.
21:02:34 There's no reason why we should not treat this
21:02:39 neighborhood with the same protective instincts that
21:02:43 we treat other neighborhoods in Tampa.

21:02:45 And I think ha we should say as a council, we don't
21:02:49 waive things in Courier City.
21:02:51 Why should we stand by our guns in other neighborhood
21:02:54 and insist upon appropriate setbacks?
21:02:57 And waive them in Courier City?
21:02:59 There is no reason.
21:03:01 This is for Mr. Reddick and Mr. Fletcher who weren't
21:03:04 here to hear the history.
21:03:05 When Hyde Park positive years ago was surveyed to see
21:03:11 if it was appropriate to be a national register, I
21:03:14 mean, historic district, Courier City was surveyed at
21:03:19 the same time and they both had the same
21:03:21 characteristics.
21:03:22 But the people in Hyde Park was more sophisticated and
21:03:26 they lobbied the city for protection and the people in
21:03:28 Courier City were less sophisticated and they didn't
21:03:31 ensure that protection for themselves, which is why we
21:03:35 have the patterns we have now.
21:03:37 But I think we are hearing from the people in Courier
21:03:41 City that they want to be treated with the same
21:03:44 respect and the same setbacks and open space that are
21:03:47 in our code right now.

21:03:49 And they don't want to see the green space to be
21:03:52 waived.
21:03:53 While I will compliment the architect on this being a
21:03:56 relatively attractive quad -- and it is, it is
21:04:00 relatively attractive for a quad -- I don't think that
21:04:03 this is the appropriate waiver that we should be
21:04:06 granting in this situation.
21:04:08 One of the reasons -- and I pressed for drawings, all
21:04:12 the different sides of a proposed PD -- is because
21:04:15 it's very telling to look at the side views and the
21:04:18 rear views.
21:04:19 We have tried as a council an experiment with letting
21:04:22 people use alleys for their front doors.
21:04:25 I have visited these.
21:04:26 And I decided that we made a big mistake.
21:04:29 I mean, I can speak for myself.
21:04:31 I made a big mistake by voting for them in the past.
21:04:33 I think they are not going to hold up over time.
21:04:37 And I think we are going to be soundly rebuked in the
21:04:40 future for having made a poor decision.
21:04:42 It is my feeling that when should no longer make poor
21:04:44 decisions.

21:04:45 And rather than deny this tonight, what I would like
21:04:48 to do is offer the petitioner a continuance to give
21:04:52 them an opportunity to go back, redraw this.
21:04:55 And I have a very specific recommendation on how they
21:04:58 might do it.
21:04:58 They might take the -- they might redraw as a duplex,
21:05:03 charge more, make your money, where you have the
21:05:10 garages in front, mach all of your garages off the
21:05:13 rear, have your entrances in front or where the
21:05:16 garages are in front, create an additional porch.
21:05:18 It will be attractive.
21:05:20 It will be -- it will make you money.
21:05:22 And it will make you happy neighbors.
21:05:24 And that is what I really recommend to you.
21:05:27 Way would like to do is allow the petitioner to
21:05:29 request a certain amount of time, 30 days, 60 days, to
21:05:34 work with your architect and go back and rethink this
21:05:36 as a duplex.
21:05:38 And look at the one we did in Hyde Park recently
21:05:41 because it really is very attractive and successful
21:05:44 financially.
21:05:46 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Just a question.

21:05:47 I agree with your sentiments.
21:05:49 But giving a continuance to go back and do a duplex,
21:05:53 which is already allowed, what will the point of that
21:05:57 be?
21:05:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: They need a PD for their side
21:06:01 setbacks.
21:06:02 I mean, I think that a PD would afford them greater
21:06:06 flexibility on their lot.
21:06:07 That's why I suggest it.
21:06:08 And because they have already paid their fees.
21:06:10 And because they have notified the neighbors.
21:06:12 And because I figure that they probably would
21:06:14 appreciate that.
21:06:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Horner, would you come to the
21:06:18 podium?
21:06:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Do you want to give him five
21:06:21 minutes or something?
21:06:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I need to let you know that
21:06:24 Mr. Horner does have, I believe, six minutes and few
21:06:27 second for continued rebuttal if he wishes.
21:06:30 Again, he is entitled to have this voted up or down
21:06:33 tonight.

21:06:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Horner, would you come up?
21:06:38 Oh, he's talking.
21:06:40 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Can we ask Mr. Crumbley as the
21:06:43 spokesman?
21:06:45 >>GWEN MILLER: come up.
21:06:49 >>> If council offered us five minutes to talk about
21:06:51 it I would like that opportunity and talk about it.
21:06:55 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Can we ask Mr. Crumbley to come back
21:06:57 up?
21:07:06 Mr. Crumbley, you heard Mrs. Saul-Sena's suggestion
21:07:08 which to -- the S to go back.
21:07:11 Butt it may be nothing more than a duplex but may be
21:07:14 possible to cut into the setbacks, it stays a PD as
21:07:19 opposed to a straight up or down rezoning. This is a
21:07:21 continued public hearing.
21:07:22 We brought you down here twice now.
21:07:24 Are you okay with that suggestion?
21:07:29 >>> I can be here every Thursday at your pleasure.
21:07:32 [ Laughter ]
21:07:37 However, I am going on vacation in May.
21:07:39 >>GWEN MILLER: We'll have it done before then.
21:07:42 >> I can drag my junkyard lawyer daughter down here.

21:07:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you want to say something, Mr.
21:07:53 Horner?
21:07:55 >>> If.
21:07:56 >>SHAWN HARRISON: If it comes back as a duplex are you
21:07:58 willing to give them an opportunity?
21:08:02 >>> Certainly.
21:08:02 This is what we unusually proposed.
21:08:05 Is that we could live with a duplex but not a
21:08:09 quadplex.
21:08:10 Get away from those garage doors on the Main Street,
21:08:12 that sort of thing.
21:08:14 >> Okay.
21:08:14 Mr. Horner?
21:08:15 >>> Madam Chair, to continue that.
21:08:17 My only concern is, you could live with a duplex but
21:08:22 not live with a quadplex, thinking somewhere in
21:08:26 between as a compromise, it might be economy on a PD,
21:08:29 address the garage concerns and open space.
21:08:32 If we could loaf that open continue the case.
21:08:36 If it doesn't fly, they don't like it, it doesn't fly.
21:08:38 We would at least like to keep that discussion open.
21:08:42 >> Here's what I have to say about that.

21:08:44 If they could do three on it as a Euclidean zoning and
21:08:47 we have no control, say over --
21:08:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Fine.
21:08:54 >>> But I'm saying that, Mrs. Saul-Sena. If they
21:08:55 could squeeze three in there somehow and we wouldn't
21:08:58 have any say, and the neighborhood wouldn't have any
21:09:00 say, then I wouldn't mind you saying, all right,
21:09:04 here's option A, which is three, here's option B,
21:09:07 which is two, and if you can sell the option A to the
21:09:10 neighborhood, that's fine.
21:09:11 But I think that's going to be a very tough sale.
21:09:13 I would rather have some control over if you can't get
21:09:18 three on it that it would have to come before us as a
21:09:20 PD as opposed to just a straight Euclidean and
21:09:23 everybody is surprised the next day as to what might
21:09:26 appear there.
21:09:28 >> We may well need the PD to accommodate a building
21:09:32 elevation that please it is neighbors or at least the
21:09:35 design amenities.
21:09:36 I can't committee to that.
21:09:38 We can do an RM-16 straight review and then look at a
21:09:41 PD with a three-unit or possibly look at a two unit

21:09:45 but I think those options have to be on the table.
21:09:48 Otherwise, we are committing ourselves at this public
21:09:50 hearing.
21:09:51 And I just don't have the answers at this time.
21:09:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: In terms of design, though, the
21:09:55 thing that we heard most clearly from the neighborhood
21:09:58 is that they don't want front garages, they don't
21:10:01 want -- you are blessed with an alley.
21:10:06 I would suggest that you do what the traditional
21:10:08 pattern is in this neighborhood, which is you create
21:10:11 your access point from the alley, and you use the
21:10:14 front of your not very wide lot for front porches
21:10:18 which is the traditional bungalow look.
21:10:20 And if you do that, I think you would have happy
21:10:23 neighbors.
21:10:23 >>> We'll take a look at that.
21:10:27 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I would lose the party deck on top.
21:10:32 >>CHAIRMAN: How long would it take for this to come
21:10:34 back?
21:10:36 >>> 60 days is acceptable to us if it's acceptable to
21:10:38 Mr. Crumbley.
21:10:39 >>MARTIN SHELBY: What is that?

21:10:41 Could we have a date, please?
21:10:42 Council, obviously, I'm sure you are aware that the
21:10:48 petitioner has been trying to develop this under the
21:10:51 Euclidean zoning rules as a matter of right.
21:10:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If he does then we wouldn't see him
21:11:00 in 60 days.
21:11:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Right.
21:11:03 But I don't think you can have him waive that right.
21:11:07 >>GWEN MILLER: What is 60 days?
21:11:09 >>THE CLERK: April 26th.
21:11:12 Wave some openings available.
21:11:13 >>GWEN MILLER: April 26th.
21:11:16 >>: So moved.
21:11:16 >> Second.
21:11:16 >> motion and second.
21:11:18 (Motion carried).
21:11:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone else to come before
21:11:22 council?
21:11:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to receive and file.
21:11:25 >> Second.
21:11:25 (Motion carried).
21:11:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question for legal.

21:11:29 Just because they have been very Kuwait tonight.
21:11:37 Can council assume a new policy toward waivers saying
21:11:46 that people -- I think the phrase used by staff, this
21:11:49 is not an honorary waiver but a technical waiver or
21:11:53 something.
21:11:56 To me a waiver -- can we know that waivers are
21:12:00 genuine, you know, to deviate from what's in the
21:12:04 rules, and that they need to be accorded from more
21:12:09 than just saying, oh, it's a technical waiver?
21:12:12 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I think she's saying technical
21:12:13 objection as opposed to the technical waiver.
21:12:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
21:12:17 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Is it a real objection or kind of a
21:12:19 fake objection?
21:12:20 It's technical.
21:12:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you don't mind, council, Julia
21:12:27 Cole prepared specific applicable sections of the
21:12:31 codes for rezoning review and there's a criteria for
21:12:34 waivers.
21:12:35 And if council so wishes to put the burden on the
21:12:40 petitioner to address every one of the criteria, in
21:12:43 section 27-324, and hold them to the burden of

21:12:48 establishing the need for each and every waiver,
21:12:51 council can choose to do that if that's how it wishes
21:12:54 to address the site plan review.
21:13:01 >> The issue is we hear an objection from staff, want
21:13:04 to rely on staff's judgment, and we don't know whether
21:13:07 they think granting the waiver is a gad idea or not,
21:13:10 but they are objecting to it because technically it
21:13:12 doesn't meet the code.
21:13:15 That's the communication issue.
21:13:17 >>> Okay.
21:13:17 I think I understand the question.
21:13:18 And I don't want to jump in and speak for staff.
21:13:21 But my understanding is generally when they don't feel
21:13:23 very strongly about it, but it doesn't meet some
21:13:26 provision in the code, they say it's a technical
21:13:29 objection.
21:13:30 And they don't feel real strongly about it.
21:13:33 They'll let you know when they feel strongly about
21:13:35 something.
21:13:35 Am I right?
21:13:38 Adequately explaining how they send the signal to you,
21:13:42 that this is a technical objection because it doesn't

21:13:45 quite meet it.
21:13:47 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I could just follow up, council,
21:13:49 your code of ordinances is created by you to reflect
21:13:54 what you believe are the community standards.
21:13:57 You have also created the PD process to allow for
21:14:02 those standards under certain circumstances, so it
21:14:06 could be waived if you feel it meets that criteria.
21:14:09 There is no requirement that you do that if you wish
21:14:13 to hold to a strict interpretation of the code.
21:14:16 It is ultimately a policy decision of this council and
21:14:19 how it wishes to review PDs.
21:14:22 We can have that discussion.
21:14:23 But clearly council does have the ability.
21:14:25 Obviously, when the staff says to you, this does not
21:14:30 meet your code, it tells you, they are telling you
21:14:34 that the determinations or the standards you have set
21:14:38 are not specifically -- and it requires a waiver as a
21:14:42 policy decision on your property whether or not you
21:14:45 want to waive your standard, to allow that
21:14:47 development.
21:14:48 >>SHAWN HARRISON: That's a very good argument for
21:14:51 keeping the technical objections because we know it

21:14:57 doesn't technically meet but we don't feel strongly
21:14:59 enough to say it's a full-blown objection.
21:15:01 So it is not something that has really raised a red
21:15:08 flag with the staff.
21:15:13 >>> The other thing they are telling me is when they
21:15:15 say technical objection and that they don't really
21:15:17 think that it's a good reason for denying.
21:15:21 >>SHAWN HARRISON: I think it's a good idea to keep it.
21:15:24 Anything else to come before council?
21:15:25 We are adjourned.
21:15:27 (City Council meeting adjourned)