Tampa City Council
Thursday, April 12, 2007
9:00 a.m. session
The following represents an unedited version of
realtime captioning which should neither be relied
upon for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
The original of this transcript was produced in all
capital letters and any variation thereto may be a
result of third party edits and software compatibility
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.
09:06:18 [Sounding gavel]
09:06:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Tampa City Council is called to order.
09:06:27 The chair will yield to Mr. Caetano.
09:06:32 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: This morning I have the pleasure
09:06:33 of introducing ... (off microphone) to take time off
09:06:40 from a busy day to give us the invocation.
09:06:42 Please stand for the pledge of allegiance.
09:06:51 >>> Let us pray.
09:06:52 Almighty God who has given us this good City of Tampa
09:06:55 for our heritage, we humbly ask you that we may always
09:06:58 prove ourselves a people mindful of your favor and
09:07:01 glad to do your will.
09:07:03 Bless our city with honorable industry, sound learning
09:07:05 and pure manners, save us from violence, discord and
09:07:09 confusion, from pride and arrogance and from every
09:07:12 evil way.
09:07:13 Defend our liberties, and fashion into one united
09:07:16 people the multitudes brought here out of many nations
09:07:19 and tongues.
09:07:20 And do with a spirit of wisdom those to whom in your
09:07:23 name we entrust the authority of government that there
09:07:25 may be justice and peace, and for obedience to your
09:07:30 law we show forth your praise among all the people we
09:07:33 meet N.a time of prosperity, fill our hearts with
09:07:36 thankfulness N.a day of trouble suffer not our trust
09:07:39 in need of fail.
09:07:40 Almighty God our heavenly father, send down upon Gwen,
09:07:44 Mary, Linda, John, Thomas, Charlie, and Joseph the
09:07:48 spirit of wisdom, charity and justice, that with
09:07:53 steadfast purpose they may faithfully serve in their
09:07:57 offices to promote the well-being of all the people of
09:07:59 Tampa. In God's name we pray.
09:08:01 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
09:08:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Before we begin I would like to us bow
09:08:22 our heads in a moment of silence for the news anchor
09:08:25 John winter who passed away
09:08:33 (moment of silence)
09:08:37 Roll call.
09:08:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
09:08:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:08:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
09:08:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
09:08:44 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
09:08:47 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
09:08:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:08:48 At this time item number 1, we need to continue it
09:08:51 until April.
09:08:54 >> So moved.
09:08:55 >> Second.
09:08:56 (Motion carried).
09:08:56 >>GWEN MILLER: We have the honor of having our Chief
09:08:59 Hogue here who has some introductions he would like to
09:09:02 Would you please come forward?
09:09:04 >>CHIEF HOGUE: Absolutely.
09:09:05 Thank you very much for making a little time for us
09:09:08 this morning.
09:09:11 Gwen, I would like to say congratulations to all
09:09:13 the -- to all the new council people.
09:09:16 I would like to introduce the staff, the new staff
09:09:19 positions at the police department.
09:09:21 When the new council members met with me about a week
09:09:25 ago, I provided you with a little book that had some
09:09:29 pick in districts.
09:09:30 Well, that's all changed now.
09:09:32 So the pictures are somewhat the same but you have to
09:09:35 put them in a different area now.
09:09:37 First I would like to introduce assistant chief Mike
09:09:41 George here to my immediate right.
09:09:44 He was promoted from major in uniform district 1, and
09:09:48 to that position, he will now, at the police
09:09:51 department, the hierarchy, is the police chief, and
09:09:54 two assistant chefs -- chief that is basically the
09:09:58 police department is divided in half.
09:10:00 Chief George will be running our major crimes unit,
09:10:03 which is our homicide detective and robbery
09:10:06 detectives, and sexual battery detectives and people
09:10:09 of that nature, officers and detectives of that
09:10:12 He will also run our administrative division, which is
09:10:14 our crime prevention and our radio and our records
09:10:18 And he will also be responsible for our special
09:10:21 operations division, which does all the special
09:10:23 events, plans for emergency management, among other
09:10:29 It's a big job.
09:10:31 He is a 28-year veteran of the Tampa Police
09:10:35 He's been married for 21 years.
09:10:37 He has two children.
09:10:39 He's got to this position because of two major
09:10:45 One, he works from dawn to dusk every day.
09:10:49 And he pays attention to details.
09:10:53 We all kind of laugh about it at the police department
09:10:56 because he seems to always be about two steps ahead of
09:10:59 everybody else when we are doing things as a group.
09:11:02 And we appreciate that skill and will have a few words
09:11:10 in a minute.
09:11:11 I would also like to congratulate major Honeywell, who
09:11:14 was promoted out of district 3, was a captain in
09:11:18 district 3 to the major district 1.
09:11:21 District 1 is the city is divided into three
09:11:26 districts, where most of our uniform patrol work out
09:11:28 of those three districts.
09:11:30 And they are each commanded by a major.
09:11:33 Major Honeywell has what we call district 1 which is
09:11:37 essentially -- it's our larger district, from
09:11:40 Hillsborough Avenue, south to MacDill Air Force
09:11:41 Base, from the river in downtown west of town.
09:11:48 So it's a significantly large area.
09:11:51 It's a lot of responsibility.
09:11:53 And Gerald brings us a special skill set for that.
09:12:02 He is a particularly good at leadership and
09:12:06 operational police officers.
09:12:09 He really understands the operations of how to run an
09:12:12 efficient organization, and he exudes a lot of
09:12:17 People want to work for Gerald.
09:12:20 He proved himself in East Tampa as a captain working
09:12:25 for major Cadera, and he earned the opportunity to be
09:12:30 a major.
09:12:31 So I would like to introduce them both to council.
09:12:33 They are great additions to our staff.
09:12:36 And I know that we are going to do even bigger and
09:12:39 better things in the future because of their
09:12:41 Thank you.
09:12:42 [ Applause ]
09:12:51 >> It's really an honor to be appointed as assistant
09:12:53 I really look forward to the challenges and
09:12:55 opportunities as we continue to reduce crime, enhance
09:12:58 the quality of life for our residents of Tampa.
09:13:01 I look forward to working with all of you in the next
09:13:03 several years in furtherance of the department's and
09:13:06 the city's mission.
09:13:07 Thank you very much.
09:13:08 [ Applause ]
09:13:14 >>> Thank you, chief.
09:13:16 I was born in West Tampa.
09:13:18 But it's personal to me working in that area.
09:13:21 I look forward to working with you under the mayor's
09:13:24 leadership and the chief's directions.
09:13:27 I really look forward to this challenge.
09:13:29 Like I said, it's personal to me because I was born
09:13:31 there, and I'm very proud of Tampa, and I look forward
09:13:34 to making Tampa the best Tampa can be.
09:13:38 [ Applause ]
09:13:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
09:13:43 Congratulations to both of you.
09:13:46 Major Honeywell, I'm going to miss you, though.
09:13:51 [ Laughter ]
09:13:52 We go to Sal Territo.
09:13:59 >>SAL TERRITO: Legal department.
09:14:00 On Monday, Ernie Mueller of our office put a
09:14:02 resolution in your office that he asked me to walk in
09:14:05 for him today dealing with demolition today being the
09:14:09 We ask that you approve that authorizing not the
09:14:13 demolition itself but the imposition of the lien that
09:14:17 went along with the demolitions that have already
09:14:19 taken place.
09:14:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Do it now or later?
09:14:24 >>> I have the two addresses on the resolutions.
09:14:29 That wasn't the building in New Tampa.
09:14:30 That happened too recently.
09:14:32 This one went up against a deadline.
09:14:34 After demolition takes place we have 60 days to file
09:14:38 the resolution embossing the lien on the property.
09:14:41 This is not the building that went down a couple days
09:14:43 ago, no.
09:14:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you want to do it now?
09:14:47 >>SAL TERRITO: I would ask that you do it now.
09:14:49 >> So approved.
09:14:49 >> Second.
09:14:50 (Motion carried).
09:14:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Ernie Mueller.
09:14:58 Okay, you had it twice.
09:15:01 All right.
09:15:02 We go to the approval of agenda.
09:15:05 Are there any items to pull from the agenda?
09:15:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: At 1:30 today, I have to go to a
09:15:11 tourist development council meeting, so I'm not sure
09:15:12 that I will be here in case you run over.
09:15:14 So I want to bring something up now just in case it's
09:15:18 Yesterday, we had a special discussion meeting at 8:30
09:15:22 about historic preservation, and the staff and the
09:15:27 participants, about a dozen citizens, agreed that we
09:15:30 didn't think that we could -- that everybody would be
09:15:34 in agreement by the 19th.
09:15:36 So this is currently scheduled for next Thursday, the
09:15:40 Everybody agreed that they thought if we gave
09:15:43 ourselves an additional two weeks there would be more
09:15:46 So next week I am going -- I don't know if I can do it
09:15:49 Can I move something from next week's agenda to the
09:15:52 3rd of August?
09:15:56 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It's a staff report.
09:15:57 Is it a staff report?
09:16:01 >>> It's on for first reading, yes, sir.
09:16:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It's not been published.
09:16:07 It's not noticed.
09:16:08 It's a legislative matter.
09:16:11 >> Just move it.
09:16:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My motion would be to move the
09:16:15 preservation ordinance, HPC and A.R.C. to May 2nd
09:16:20 or 3rd.
09:16:22 May 3rd.
09:16:23 >> Second.
09:16:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion, Mr. Caetano.
09:16:26 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Being a new member of this
09:16:28 council, I didn't realize when Ms. Saul-Sena called
09:16:31 for that meeting as chairman of that committee and I
09:16:34 had another commitment with transportation, and I
09:16:37 would appreciate it next time that I be asked first if
09:16:40 I do have another commitment, because I wanted to be
09:16:43 there, and I couldn't be here at 8:30 and be there at
09:16:46 So in the future I would like to participate in that.
09:16:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you have a problem with the changing
09:16:53 the time?
09:16:54 >>> No, I met with the people involved in that meeting
09:16:56 and I support that.
09:16:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Any other question on the motion?
09:17:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just want to apologize.
09:17:01 I didn't realize that you had a conflict, and I
09:17:04 wouldn't have scheduled it then if you did have a
09:17:07 And what I would sort of suggest to council members as
09:17:11 a useful thing to bring your schedule in so when we
09:17:15 set up you can say that isn't a good time for me,
09:17:17 because that was not my intent at all.
09:17:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Reverend Scott.
09:17:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I want to talk about the process.
09:17:26 That's very confusing to me, and that is I'm
09:17:28 accustomed to having a process to follow and go by.
09:17:31 And right now, I'm a little confused about how we are
09:17:34 doing some things.
09:17:35 So I'll bring it up later on in the business.
09:17:38 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Madam Chair, I would like to
09:17:40 pull --
09:17:41 >>GWEN MILLER: First the motion to change to May
09:17:49 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
09:17:50 As you know, or you may not know, this actually has
09:17:53 been continued 13 different times, and we have worked
09:17:58 on this for quite awhile, but I think what we have is
09:18:00 if there's a commit.
09:18:01 For to us try to get as much closure as we can in the
09:18:04 next two weeks, that's a great idea.
09:18:08 And what I would also indicate to council is I am
09:18:10 going to try to set up some time with Rebecca and
09:18:13 Donna Wysong who worked on these ordinances to talk
09:18:16 with each of you individually, particularly the four
09:18:18 of you who do not know the history on this, to bring
09:18:20 you up to speed.
09:18:21 So we can use the interim wisely and I think we may
09:18:25 still have to mention this on the 19th as well for
09:18:27 anybody who shows up.
09:18:29 But I think that's nine.
09:18:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I wanted to compliment the legal
09:18:33 staff who has been working very hard.
09:18:36 They are doing a great job.
09:18:37 And it would be just great after all these years of
09:18:40 working on this to be able to come in with something
09:18:42 that is universally embraced.
09:18:48 >>> Hopefully we can do that.
09:18:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Weaver a motion and second on the floor
09:18:51 to continue the historic preservation --
09:18:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: HPC and A.R.C.
09:18:57 (Motion carried).
09:18:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Madam Chairman, another issue that
09:19:00 came up at that meeting that everybody loved, the
09:19:04 developers, the property owners, the community people,
09:19:06 everybody thought the idea of transfer of development
09:19:09 rights is a great concept, which is something that I
09:19:12 think is probably new to most folks, it's a pretty new
09:19:14 concept, and when would just like legal to do some
09:19:17 research on this so that when it does come up before
09:19:20 council gets up to speed and then they can educate us.
09:19:23 Thank you.
09:19:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Now, Mr. Caetano --
09:19:26 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like to pull item 14,
09:19:29 file E 2007-16.
09:19:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Any other items to pull?
09:19:40 >>> Item 14.
09:19:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Can I ask a question?
09:19:42 Is that to remove it from the agenda or to pull it for
09:19:48 >>> I need more information on it before I vote on it.
09:19:50 That's why I want it pulled from the agenda.
09:19:53 >> Are you asking for a continuance to a specific
09:19:56 Did you want a week or two weeks?
09:19:58 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: A couple weeks, yes.
09:19:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Smith, did you want to advise
09:20:02 council with regard to that particular item?
09:20:04 Or should I?
09:20:06 >>DAVID SMITH: I do.
09:20:07 But perhaps what we should do is take an opportunity
09:20:09 to meet with Mr. Caetano and probably discuss it with
09:20:12 him rather than do so in public.
09:20:15 And from what I understand the knew audiences that are
09:20:20 >>MARTIN SHELBY: would you have an objection then to a
09:20:22 two-week continuance?
09:20:24 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: That would be fine.
09:20:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Madam clerk, was that in the form of
09:20:35 a motion?
09:20:37 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Yes, it is.
09:20:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'll second the motion for purposes
09:20:40 of discussion.
09:20:40 I think that it would probably be helpful to -- for
09:20:46 all the new council members to ask your friends at
09:20:50 T.H.A.N. and the different neighborhood associations
09:20:52 about Mr. Weiss' service.
09:20:58 It's been outstanding.
09:21:00 I'm honoring this request because you asked for it but
09:21:02 when it comes back I want you to know I have full
09:21:04 intentions of supporting Mr. Weiss because he has been
09:21:07 a very caring, giving, hard-working member of this
09:21:10 >>GWEN MILLER: I think the reason it was continued is
09:21:14 because of new members coming on the board, and even
09:21:18 the public might want to apply for it and he's going
09:21:20 to give them opportunity, and I think -- we have a
09:21:26 motion and second to continue item 14 to April
09:21:30 (Motion carried).
09:21:31 >> Nay?
09:21:35 >> Nay.
09:21:35 >>THE CLERK: Dingfelder, no.
09:21:38 >> Are there any other items council would like to
09:21:44 If not can we approve the agenda?
09:21:46 >> So moved.
09:21:46 >> Second.
09:21:47 (Motion carried).
09:21:47 >>GWEN MILLER: We now go to unfinished business.
09:21:51 Staff, item number 2.
09:21:55 They need to continue that for how many days?
09:22:00 We have a written report we need to receive and file.
09:22:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We all received a written report on
09:22:08 this matter, and I just wanted to throw out a little
09:22:14 warning to everybody on council, that I guess it was
09:22:20 last week or the week before, the chief of staff, you
09:22:23 know, requested, in lieu of staff appearing to explain
09:22:27 and discuss these very important issues, and there
09:22:31 were about five of them, they just wanted to sling a
09:22:35 bunch of written reports at us.
09:22:37 Now has everybody had a chance to read all the written
09:22:39 reports we have had in the last day or two?
09:22:41 Maybe yes, maybe no
09:22:46 Well, tell us about storm --
09:22:50 >>> I moved from Mississippi.
09:22:52 I can tell you --
09:22:54 >> Bottom line is when I made that motion I
09:22:56 specifically made it for the chief, the fire chief to
09:22:59 come and talk to us about this so we could have a
09:23:01 discourse, so we could have a question-and-answer
09:23:04 period with the chief.
09:23:05 And it doesn't take that much time out of his day.
09:23:07 And frankly, we only ask the fire chief to come here
09:23:10 two or three times over the last three or four years,
09:23:14 so I don't think it's that burdensome. Anyway, I'm
09:23:17 okay with the written reports that were provided today
09:23:19 and we'll move on.
09:23:20 But I want to give everybody a heads-up that when I
09:23:23 think when we ask for staff to come report to us it
09:23:26 means they have to come and report to us and we
09:23:28 shouldn't just be accepting a bunch of written
09:23:30 So that's just a casual heads up.
09:23:36 >>> Thank you, councilman Dingfelder.
09:23:38 I agree wholeheartedly 100%.
09:23:41 I think it's important again when we talk about these
09:23:43 meetings, and that we have time certain so that they
09:23:47 can show up, give us a report, we ask questions and we
09:23:51 can keep the agenda moving.
09:23:52 So I do agree.
09:23:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Any other questions?
09:23:56 Mr. Shelby?
09:23:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I just want to apologize to
09:23:59 Because if you recall when the memo came through, and
09:24:02 granted, was a very short notice before it was brought
09:24:04 to council, but I raised the issue that there was a
09:24:09 request from Mr. Smith as to council's guidance, and
09:24:13 Ms. Saul-Sena asked it to be continued so she could
09:24:15 look at the memorandum.
09:24:16 Unfortunately, I neglected to bring it back up before
09:24:18 the close of the meeting for council to take action.
09:24:21 So I had suggested that Mr. Smith perhaps consult with
09:24:26 the chair about how to proceed.
09:24:28 But I want to apologize to council, because had I
09:24:30 brought it back, you would have been able to have that
09:24:33 decision and direction of the council before the
09:24:36 decision had been made.
09:24:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Shelby, one thing we discussed was
09:24:43 if we got written reports that needed to come to
09:24:45 council, sometimes we may that you could call the
09:24:50 staff, talk to and find out what you need to know,
09:24:53 instead of having to come before council, come before
09:24:56 counseling, sometimes we have 18, 15 items on the
09:25:00 This way we are trying to shorten our agenda by
09:25:02 getting a written report so that we wouldn't be here,
09:25:07 have the audience waiting for the item to come up.
09:25:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: When council member Scott raised the
09:25:13 issue of process there is a agenda item for documents
09:25:17 of council to come at a certain deadline and we can
09:25:19 raise that I shall but how council wishes to proceed
09:25:22 on that.
09:25:24 >>MARY MULHERN: My question was in particular, or
09:25:27 maybe all of these items that Mr. Smith had asked us
09:25:31 to accept written reports for, is that the end?
09:25:34 Or that's our report, we are not going to hear from
09:25:38 Or is it something we can continue if we feel --
09:25:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We can ask specifically, you know,
09:25:43 to continue the item and bring it back again.
09:25:46 But if we don't then it dies like this.
09:25:49 >>MARY MULHERN: So being new I am not familiar with
09:25:52 the history of this first one.
09:25:53 But is it something that you feel that we do need to
09:25:56 hear about, Mr. Dingfelder?
09:25:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Item 2?
09:26:00 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
09:26:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, I have been pushing for the
09:26:03 last two or three years that we get several, not many,
09:26:05 but several of the storm funds placed around
09:26:10 intersections especially in South Tampa where there
09:26:12 are serious storm surge hazards.
09:26:15 Ms. Saul-Sena wasn't too keen on it the last time I
09:26:17 brought it up, and I don't know, Ms. Miller spoke to
09:26:21 I'm not sure how the rest of the council feels about
09:26:23 it but I think it's an important public safety issue.
09:26:25 And I wanted the fire chief to come and tell us how he
09:26:29 felt as our emergency management on the issue.
09:26:33 But, you know, at the same time I don't want to kick a
09:26:35 dead horse if nobody else is very enthused about it.
09:26:38 >>DAVID SMITH: David Smith, city attorney.
09:26:42 Councilman Dingfelder raises an interesting point and
09:26:45 an important one, and it is not unrelated to a point
09:26:48 previously raised by Ms. Saul-Sena, and that is the
09:26:51 ways and processes for this council to be involved in
09:26:54 And part of what I am trying to do to address Ms.
09:26:57 Saul-Sena's point is provide you a definitive analysis
09:27:01 of what the charter says and doesn't say.
09:27:02 And unfortunately there's a lot of different
09:27:04 provisions in the charter.
09:27:05 And I think that would help if we can clarify that
09:27:07 relationship and figure out exactly how you want to
09:27:11 proceed and how the administration can meet those
09:27:13 So I will be addressing those issues for you and for
09:27:16 the administration.
09:27:17 And I will get you that memorandum as soon as
09:27:20 possible, because it's important.
09:27:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Smith, I hope that in the
09:27:25 process of developing this you will have the
09:27:28 opportunity to consult previous city attorneys,
09:27:31 because the way that you're interpreting things isn't
09:27:34 necessarily the way that it's been interpreted
09:27:36 And I believe Mr. Miranda was around when the alcohol
09:27:39 city charter was redone and I think it would be
09:27:42 beneficial to have that historical intent understood
09:27:47 and maybe visit with Tom Gonzalez or Pam akin or some
09:27:54 of your predecessors.
09:27:56 >>> Two things.
09:27:57 First of all I haven't rendered an interpretation yet
09:27:59 so I'm a little surprised that you know where I'm
09:28:01 going because I don't.
09:28:02 I find the issue very complex and very delicate.
09:28:05 Secondly, I have also talked to Tom Gonzalez already
09:28:09 and I have had a conversation with -- that's something
09:28:13 I will do.
09:28:13 I will also consultant people who I think are
09:28:16 intelligent and thoughtful and honest and they are
09:28:18 certainly all those things.
09:28:19 Ultimately, however, I will provide you, as I will
09:28:21 provide the administration, my unvarnished, honest
09:28:25 opinion as to what the charter means and how it fits
09:28:27 into the system of government.
09:28:28 I don't think you will find it very disparate from
09:28:32 what's happened in the past but I appreciate the
09:28:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Of course Mr. Shelby will always be
09:28:39 involved in that discussion with you.
09:28:41 >>DAVID SMITH: I will certainly advise him of what my
09:28:44 opinion is and he will have an opportunity to advice
09:28:47 me as well before I provide it to you all.
09:28:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Madam Chair, I would suggest if we
09:28:54 move the agenda, I have an item that I want to discuss
09:28:57 under new business about this whole process.
09:28:59 Because I have real issues here.
09:29:06 This is council's attorney, right?
09:29:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
09:29:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And when he says he's going to ask his
09:29:13 opinion I take issue with that because he should be
09:29:15 involved in the process if he is council's attorney.
09:29:17 And I will tell you, I rely heavily on legal advice
09:29:22 from legal counsel.
09:29:23 Now I need to know who represents this counsel.
09:29:25 And if he represents counsel, I am going to look to
09:29:28 him to provide the opinion so he needs to be involved
09:29:32 in the process.
09:29:34 So I think, again, I am going to raise these issues
09:29:37 later on.
09:29:39 We need to understand what the processes are, and how
09:29:42 you get things on the agenda.
09:29:45 I'm new.
09:29:46 And we are open to learning new ideas and concepts.
09:29:50 Or if you want to keep it on that's fine, too.
09:29:53 But let's understand what they are.
09:29:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Smith.
09:29:56 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
09:29:58 As most of you who worked with me know, I generally
09:30:00 have an open process.
09:30:02 That's probably why we have had 13 continuances on
09:30:04 historic preservation.
09:30:05 I do like to get as much input.
09:30:07 Marty and I speak frequently.
09:30:09 And anytime something is of significance Marty and I
09:30:13 are going to speak before anything is going to happen.
09:30:16 However under section 2.04 of the charter opinion with
09:30:19 respect to these issues and the interpretation of the
09:30:21 charter are solely mine.
09:30:23 I don't think -- I have no reason to presuppose they
09:30:25 will differ from what Mr. Shelby thinks the charter
09:30:29 We will certainly have those conversations.
09:30:31 And I will certainly be open to that input.
09:30:33 But under the charter, the provision or the
09:30:36 interpretation that I provide is the binding one.
09:30:39 So we are having a lot of unnecessary, I think,
09:30:44 discussion because you don't even know what that
09:30:45 interpretation is yet, because I don't.
09:30:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have a question.
09:30:52 Could I ask real quick?
09:30:54 I'll lose it.
09:30:55 Thank you.
09:30:55 The question, David, is sort of in fairness and with
09:30:59 all due respect you and I are great friends but who
09:31:02 asked you to give this opinion at this time?
09:31:04 And I mean that in all sincerity.
09:31:06 Because you have plenty of work to do.
09:31:07 And you and I talked about that, too.
09:31:10 You have more than enough work to do.
09:31:11 So we are just sort of kicking off here in, our second
09:31:15 week with this new council.
09:31:17 Where is this coming from?
09:31:18 >>DAVID SMITH: Well, even if I were not asked, it
09:31:21 would be my obligation as both your attorney and the
09:31:24 city attorney to address issues of such moment.
09:31:29 So the process is conducted in a manner consistent
09:31:31 with the charter.
09:31:32 But the origin of this came from some conversation was
09:31:35 Ms. Saul-Sena in which she wanted to know exactly what
09:31:37 she could and could not do with respect to the MFL's
09:31:42 But that's also a question that has come up, in the
09:31:45 three years that I have been here, there's been a
09:31:47 constant sort of trying to determine exactly where the
09:31:49 center of gravity is with respect to your policy
09:31:52 position versus your legislative position.
09:31:54 And it's incumbent upon me as your attorney because
09:31:59 I'm obligated to advise you under the charter to let
09:32:02 you know what you should or should not do and can and
09:32:05 cannot do and perhaps what the gray area are if there
09:32:10 are any in it.
09:32:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to thank Linda Saul-Sena for
09:32:14 saying I was here in 1855.
09:32:16 [ Laughter ]
09:32:20 Still doing good.
09:32:21 I have been here under two systems.
09:32:23 I have been here when Williams was the city attorney
09:32:25 and advised the council.
09:32:26 I was here when the council hired the first, I
09:32:29 believe, City Council attorney, David Carr.
09:32:34 Then it changed over.
09:32:35 We had a directed line with the city attorney's
09:32:37 office, and they would provide us with an attorney.
09:32:40 Now it's gone back to 1976 or whatever year it was.
09:32:45 But I have never had a discord that I could feel that
09:32:50 was any changes of attitudes from the legal department
09:32:54 towards the counsel or the administration in one way
09:32:57 or the other.
09:32:58 I think the individuals that I have worked with in the
09:33:00 past, and I'm sure that's standard for those that are
09:33:03 here now, are looking for the betterment of the city,
09:33:07 not the betterment of themselves.
09:33:10 >> Hear-hear.
09:33:12 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a question for Mr. Miranda with
09:33:15 Did we have a council attorney during your last term?
09:33:21 >>> 1855?
09:33:22 >> No, the more recent one, the 20th century.
09:33:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The last time, I think, from '95 to
09:33:31 2003 -- and correct me if I am wrong if I'm wrong, Ms.
09:33:34 Miller -- council's attorney came from the staff of
09:33:38 the city attorneys' office.
09:33:39 >>GWEN MILLER: You're correct.
09:33:41 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, I feel that what Mr. Scott
09:33:46 brought up has not been answered, and the fact is what
09:33:49 Mr. Smith was saying about giving up council -- giving
09:33:54 us counsel.
09:33:55 There's still a question for us as council people who
09:33:57 is counsel, as a council, am I going to go talk to
09:34:01 you, or am I going to go talk to our City Council
09:34:05 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
09:34:08 What I would recommend you do is first read the
09:34:11 provisions in the charter that have addressed this,
09:34:14 first section 2.04 would be where you would look.
09:34:17 That specifically addresses the position.
09:34:19 It refers to what you are calling council attorney as
09:34:22 a legal aide, and it says the City Council may appoint
09:34:26 one assistant city attorney.
09:34:28 So the position, my position, has been from the out
09:34:31 set that Mr. Shelby is in fact an assistant city
09:34:34 attorney, appointed by this council, to serve in the
09:34:37 capacity as what the charter refers to as the legal
09:34:40 But it goes on to indicate later, when it talks about
09:34:44 what his role is vis-a-vis the city attorney, it says
09:34:48 "no action of said assistant city attorney shall be
09:34:53 construed to be the official legal position of the
09:34:55 city, and such official legal positions and ABCs shall
09:35:00 be solely within the scope of the power and duties of
09:35:02 the city attorney."
09:35:04 What that means is ultimately, the charter has
09:35:08 deposited in this office, in this case me, the
09:35:10 responsibility for the definitive interpretation of
09:35:12 the charter.
09:35:14 What it also means is if you are acting consistent
09:35:20 with my opinion as opposed to some other opinion you
09:35:22 have qualified immunity.
09:35:25 But that's what the charter says.
09:35:26 Now, before we have too much fire and too little
09:35:32 light, let's see where we are at.
09:35:34 I don't think we have huge disparity.
09:35:36 I think the text is what it is.
09:35:38 And there aren't that many options.
09:35:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I will tell you, council
09:35:46 members, I am not an attorney.
09:35:47 I have never been to law school.
09:35:48 But I have good common sense.
09:35:55 And I'm very practical, okay?
09:35:57 I will tell you that this whole issue of counsel -- I
09:36:04 went through this before with the county commission,
09:36:05 and administration over there.
09:36:07 I have been through there.
09:36:08 And it sounds like it's back again.
09:36:14 I hope not.
09:36:15 But it's very important for us.
09:36:16 Again, to raise an issue.
09:36:18 I read through the charter.
09:36:20 And the charter is not clear on some things, that's
09:36:25 what I'm telling you.
09:36:25 That's why you need to take a look at the charter.
09:36:28 It is not difficult to use the language "appoint" and
09:36:31 how that is interpreted depends on Marty or Mr. Smith.
09:36:36 And I don't know what you did before, how you
09:36:38 addressed that.
09:36:39 But it doesn't say that the person has the
09:36:44 authority -- there's a lot of vague language and
09:36:47 leaves a lot of interpretation that needs to be clear.
09:36:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Caetano.
09:36:52 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Shelby -- does he work for
09:36:57 you, Mr. Smith?
09:36:58 Was he hired by your office?
09:37:00 Or was he hired by this City Council?
09:37:02 >>DAVID SMITH: Let me explain the process when we went
09:37:04 through this because I was here at the time.
09:37:06 The way I read the charter, the charter says the
09:37:09 council may appoint one assistant city attorney.
09:37:12 It doesn't say hire.
09:37:13 It doesn't say employ.
09:37:15 If you compare that to the language used with respect
09:37:18 to hiring or employing a budget analyst, you can only
09:37:22 infer that the difference is meaningful.
09:37:26 So as opposed to employment in hiring you are pointing
09:37:29 one assistant city attorney.
09:37:31 My view of that language is, the only way it can be
09:37:34 properly interpreted -- and this is something I
09:37:36 checked with Tom Gonzalez at the time because I was
09:37:40 new -- is that he has to be an assistant city
09:37:42 So what I told the council at that time is that they
09:37:44 should go through their process, whoever they choose,
09:37:47 whoever they are comfortable with as the legal aide,
09:37:52 sound better to say council attorney, whoever they
09:37:55 choose as a council attorney, I will hire, and make an
09:37:58 I also indicated at that time that I would provide as
09:38:01 much distance as possible so you guys would feel
09:38:04 comfortable consulting with the council attorney.
09:38:09 He's not obligated to tell me everything you're
09:38:11 talking about, although under the cannons that
09:38:15 regulate the Florida Bar, there's different issues
09:38:17 there, but that's fine.
09:38:18 So you have someone you can talk to.
09:38:20 But ultimately, I do represent you.
09:38:22 I'm obligated under the rules governing the Florida
09:38:24 Bar to represent you as your lawyer.
09:38:27 And I'll tell you among other things, that means I
09:38:29 must be a zealous advocate for you.
09:38:33 I must also do the same thing for the mayor and the
09:38:35 department heads throughout the city.
09:38:36 Now how does one do that when sometimes there's
09:38:38 differences of opinion that arise?
09:38:41 One does that by trying to do the best job you can and
09:38:45 provide an honest opinion of what you think the text
09:38:47 means in the context.
09:38:49 I can tell you, those in administration don't always
09:38:52 agree with what they hear from me either.
09:38:54 But that's not my job.
09:38:56 My job is not to make everybody happy.
09:38:58 My job is to be their lawyer.
09:39:00 Sometimes, lawyers tell their clients things they
09:39:03 don't want to hear.
09:39:04 If you have a lawyer who doesn't, you don't have
09:39:06 someone who is acting like much of a lawyer because
09:39:09 he's not really watching out for you.
09:39:11 I have to watch out for you.
09:39:13 I have to watch out for the administration.
09:39:14 And most importantly I have to watch out for the
09:39:16 citizens of this city.
09:39:17 That is what I will do.
09:39:18 And I will give you my honest opinion as to what that
09:39:22 We will even talk about the fact that branches of
09:39:25 government have a certain amount of inherent
09:39:27 interpretive capacity.
09:39:28 I'm well aware that our structure mocks or models the
09:39:34 founding so I think I am very conversant in the issues
09:39:38 that need to be addressed and I will address them.
09:39:40 I don't have a quick and glib answer because it's not
09:39:42 a quick and glib subject.
09:39:44 It goes to the heart of governance.
09:39:46 But I can assure you of one thing.
09:39:48 I am not going to tilt my interpretation one way or
09:39:50 the other.
09:39:50 And the mayor has had no problem accepting that and I
09:39:53 don't anticipate you will either.
09:39:55 I think you will find my interpretations sound and
09:39:57 fair and correct.
09:39:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
09:40:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Again -- and, Charlie, this goes a
09:40:07 little bit to where you all were heading in terms of
09:40:09 time management.
09:40:10 If Linda, Ms. Saul-Sena, asks you an issue about how
09:40:15 to deal with the river, that sort of thing, and how
09:40:19 that relates to policy and all that, then I think that
09:40:22 over the last three years or three and a half years,
09:40:24 David, that you have dealt with that on an individual
09:40:29 If she had a particular question, how does this relate
09:40:31 to the charter, how far can I go on this?
09:40:34 You interpreted it.
09:40:35 You came to her.
09:40:36 You called her or whatever and you dealt with it.
09:40:39 And you have never over the last three and a half
09:40:42 years felt the need to come up with an interpretation
09:40:45 of the charter and how we relate to across the street.
09:40:48 We deal with that on a case-by-case basis.
09:40:50 We have dealt with that on a case-by-case basis.
09:40:53 Instead, now we spend a lot of time, okay, wrestling
09:40:58 with this as opposed to the fact that I think that you
09:41:01 and Mr. Shelby could make the rounds, and frankly I
09:41:04 would have thought that this would have been done
09:41:05 anyway, you all can make the rounds to the new people,
09:41:08 and give them a little bit of personal orientation on
09:41:12 how to deal with this instead of us, you know,
09:41:16 wrestling with this in this form.
09:41:17 Because, again, it kind of reminds me of during the
09:41:21 campaign, okay, when you sort of voluntarily jumped up
09:41:24 to the podium and started giving us opinions about how
09:41:27 the charter played into the political realm, and that
09:41:30 turned into a big mess.
09:41:33 And, again, it's not necessary.
09:41:36 We haven't voted and asked for it.
09:41:39 And I'm sorry to be doing this but you and I haven't
09:41:42 even talked about this and I didn't know this was even
09:41:44 going on.
09:41:45 So I apologize for that.
09:41:46 David, it's never a question of your ability or your
09:41:51 ethical conduct or the relationship that you have had
09:41:54 with us.
09:41:55 You know that's not the issue at all.
09:41:57 Because I respect and admire you greatly.
09:41:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Council members, we discussed that
09:42:01 enough. This is not the time to discuss it.
09:42:03 We have a period in --
09:42:06 >> Thank you.
09:42:06 >>GWEN MILLER: When we get to the time to do it we
09:42:08 will do it then.
09:42:09 So we need to go on with our agenda.
09:42:11 We are going to keep on with our agenda.
09:42:13 Needs to be continued to May 17th.
09:42:15 Do we have a motion?
09:42:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Did we do 2?
09:42:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
09:42:20 We filed and received it.
09:42:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Did it vote?
09:42:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Check with the clerk, please.
09:42:27 >>GWEN MILLER: We did everything else.
09:42:29 We have a motion and second.
09:42:30 Question on the motion.
09:42:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If there's anybody on council that
09:42:34 is interested in this issue, I would be glad for us to
09:42:37 continue talking about this issue at a later date so
09:42:39 everybody can get up to speed on it, et cetera.
09:42:42 I think that it's important that the citizens of Tampa
09:42:44 know where the storm surges flow to and that's why I
09:42:48 have been pushing these storm surge signs.
09:42:50 But if I am the only one, that's fine, we'll let it
09:42:56 >> So you want it to come back in terms of a verbal
09:42:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
09:42:59 That would be the option.
09:43:01 So I'll ask that Chief Jones come in front of us
09:43:07 personally, and we'll give him 60 days. That way
09:43:10 everybody can get up to speed on it.
09:43:12 And we'll keep talking about hopefully before
09:43:14 hurricane season.
09:43:19 >> 60 days.
09:43:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 30 days.
09:43:23 Hurricane season comes in 30 days.
09:43:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Dingfelder, I had been
09:43:27 skeptical of this because I was afraid these markers
09:43:30 would be unattractive and there would be too many.
09:43:32 You since qualified the number.
09:43:33 We are log at fewer.
09:43:35 We are looking at public locations.
09:43:36 And I would support that.
09:43:37 And might I suggest that you schedule this on a day
09:43:40 when Chief Jones is coming to do the firefighter of
09:43:43 the quarter because he will be here already.
09:43:45 He's already got the report doesn't.
09:43:46 It doesn't take him any more time to think about it so
09:43:49 that might be good scheduling.
09:43:50 And I believe that was put off for two weeks, one
09:43:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Next week.
09:43:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:44:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 2.
09:44:02 We are going to receive and file, continue to next
09:44:07 All in favor?
09:44:08 >>THE CLERK: Miranda, Mulhern voting no.
09:44:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 3.
09:44:14 We need to continue that.
09:44:15 We made a motion.
09:44:17 We have a motion and second.
09:44:18 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
09:44:19 (Motion carried).
09:44:20 Item number 4.
09:44:21 Legal department is going to do that.
09:44:30 >>ROLANDO SANTIAGO: Legal department.
09:44:31 Madam Chair, the question before you is whether or not
09:44:35 there are other options, short-term options rather
09:44:38 than vacating a right-of-way, to allow an individual
09:44:41 the private use of a right-of-way.
09:44:46 Once the rights-of-way that the city is responsible
09:44:48 for are held in trust for the public, there are very
09:44:51 few rights-of-way the city owns and those are
09:44:54 generally those that are within the core of the
09:44:56 downtown area.
09:44:57 All the other rights-of-way are typically created by
09:45:01 In that plat is the reservation that those plans are
09:45:05 held in trust for the public.
09:45:07 You go to vacate that right-of-way, you must make a
09:45:09 determination that there is no other public interest
09:45:11 remaining or that the pun interest will be better
09:45:15 served by vacating that right-of-way.
09:45:18 That relinquishes the character of that public street
09:45:23 or right-of-way.
09:45:23 To do something short-term that is not a vacating
09:45:26 would be contradictory to the purposes for how the
09:45:31 property is held and that's the problem with granting
09:45:33 an individual an easement over the right-of-way as
09:45:35 opposed to giving the right-of-way up in the vacation,
09:45:39 because now you granted an individual or single person
09:45:42 the right-of-way to use a right-of-way that is
09:45:45 reserved for the public.
09:45:46 So that is the conflict with -- et cetera either black
09:45:51 or white.
09:45:52 You either have a right-of-way or don't.
09:45:56 It would be in conflict with the laws of the State of
09:45:58 Florida regarding rights-of-way.
09:46:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So the answer is no.
09:46:03 >>ROLANDO SANTIAGO: The answer is no.
09:46:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 5.
09:46:08 Mr. Lee.
09:46:13 >> Ervin Lee, director of public works.
09:46:16 I want to give you all a brief update on our selection
09:46:20 of hybrid vehicles used by the city fleet.
09:46:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Before you get started, do you have
09:46:26 anybody with you today?
09:46:27 >>> Yes, I do.
09:46:28 I am pleased to have my daughter.
09:46:30 >> She might have to stand and wave.
09:46:36 >> Welcome.
09:46:40 >>> I won't be here on take your child to workday so
09:46:44 decided to do it today instead.
09:46:45 Thank you for allowing me the opportunity.
09:46:47 But I do have some information just to provide you all
09:46:50 a brief update.
09:46:54 A couple key points here on the Elmo.
09:47:02 The opportunity of a procurement action that working
09:47:04 with the purchasing department.
09:47:06 We were going to replace vehicles in both the growth
09:47:09 management and the code enforcement divisions.
09:47:13 We decided to go ahead an purchase 10 hybrid Ford
09:47:18 As now the city has standardized our plan on the Ford
09:47:21 product so the escapes were -- it was just a natural
09:47:29 conclusion to use a comparison of the hybrid side by
09:47:35 side in those two areas.
09:47:36 We will basically look at the operations, maintenance
09:47:39 and sustainability of these vehicles, and we'll
09:47:42 compare them in those two areas.
09:47:48 We will have some additional details here.
09:47:50 If you have not seen the press release that went out
09:47:52 on this, the difference in costs in the hybrids and
09:47:57 the conventional vehicles are about $5,000 apiece.
09:48:00 So this is roughly a $50,000 cost here.
09:48:04 But we do anticipate reduced emissions from these
09:48:07 vehicles by about 25% as compared to the conventional.
09:48:11 And we estimate that we'll get at least a $4,000
09:48:15 savings in gasoline, particularly if the gas prices,
09:48:20 we expect to see more.
09:48:22 I would be happy to answer any questions you all have.
09:48:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think this is fantastic that the
09:48:28 city is starting to do this.
09:48:34 I'm curious, are we going to paint them up a little
09:48:37 bit so we can let the public know these are hybrid
09:48:39 vehicles, getting 40 miles per hour or whatever they
09:48:42 I think -- and if not, I think he would should.
09:48:45 Because I think that's part of the purpose, is to lead
09:48:47 by example.
09:48:50 >>> We are partnering with Polk County and Miami-Dade
09:48:53 who have done similar things like this to identify the
09:48:55 vehicles, hybrid vehicles.
09:48:57 We haven't determined exactly what we are going to do
09:48:59 but we definitely will consider something like that.
09:49:03 >>MARY MULHERN: My question, you touched on it.
09:49:06 So it's an additional 5 that you for each vehicle.
09:49:11 Is that what you said?
09:49:13 And then you said a savings of $4,000 in gas.
09:49:16 Is that over a year?
09:49:18 >>> That's an annual savings, yes.
09:49:20 >>MARY MULHERN: So can you give us sort of how long it
09:49:23 would take to really be gaining and saving, how many
09:49:27 years, or what would be the expectancy, you know, when
09:49:30 people say, oh, we shouldn't be spending that much on
09:49:33 the hybrids, how long does it take to make that up and
09:49:36 actually get a savings?
09:49:39 >>> Well, our vehicle replacement program we use a
09:49:42 7-year for vehicle replacement.
09:49:45 So in the case of these vehicles, a lot of it is the
09:49:50 type of driving that our folks do.
09:49:53 You have seen the numbers in the city versus highway.
09:49:56 The type of driving our folks typically do, it's city
09:50:00 However, with the hybrids, you incur a higher savings,
09:50:05 a higher MPG in city versus the highway.
09:50:09 So that's part of the analysis that we are going to do
09:50:12 is to find out just how much the savings will be.
09:50:15 >>MARY MULHERN: Is this --
09:50:17 >>> This is a pilot program, yes, it is.
09:50:21 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: With the letter that we got
09:50:23 yesterday from the administration with the proposed
09:50:24 cuts that may come with whatever comes out of
09:50:28 Tallahassee, when do you plan to buy these vehicles?
09:50:33 >>> These folks are part of the FY 07 vehicle buyout.
09:50:38 But the person working on these, we may hopefully, in
09:50:45 a favorable climate, may be able to do better than the
09:50:48 numbers we provided.
09:50:49 >> The other part of my question is what Ms. Mulhern
09:50:52 asked you the savings will be about $9,000 a year on
09:50:55 each vehicle?
09:50:56 >>> No, sir.
09:50:59 That's the only cost will be $5,000 on each.
09:51:02 That's our estimated cost on each vehicle.
09:51:04 But the savings on gasoline, that's a total for the
09:51:06 entire program.
09:51:08 Roughly about $400 per vehicle.
09:51:13 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Thank you.
09:51:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I wanted to thank you so much, Mr.
09:51:18 This is the first time you have come to us with really
09:51:20 good news.
09:51:21 I think you are going to be very impressed with the
09:51:24 I personally get 50 miles to the gallon with the
09:51:27 hybrid which is very satisfying.
09:51:28 I wanted to suggest that you look to Dade County for
09:51:30 the verbiage they use on their hybrid vehicles.
09:51:33 They changed their entire fleet over and they have
09:51:36 really clear message on them that the government has
09:51:39 made this choice because the economic benefit of the
09:51:45 community but also the environmental and health
09:51:47 And I think that when we as council members look at
09:51:50 spending money on things, we don't have to shown a
09:51:52 profit every quarter.
09:51:53 We have to be good stewards of our community,
09:51:57 long-term, sound investment.
09:51:59 Sometimes, the initial investment is higher of the new
09:52:03 vehicles but the long-term life cycle costs are lower.
09:52:07 As we look to fixing more buildings, building new
09:52:11 government buildings, I know we are doing one now on
09:52:13 Columbus drive, we need to look at putting in systems
09:52:16 that long-term will save us money.
09:52:17 Thank you.
09:52:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Other questions?
09:52:19 Thank you, Mr. Lee.
09:52:20 Item number 6.
09:52:21 We need to receive and file it.
09:52:25 And a second?
09:52:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Wait, wait, wait.
09:52:34 This is a report that's very, very important and we
09:52:36 have got the report now.
09:52:37 I would like to request that Mr. Lane appear next week
09:52:40 to discuss it.
09:52:41 Because there's still big problems and I think we need
09:52:45 to discuss it so I move this be continued to our next
09:52:47 week's agenda.
09:52:48 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
09:52:50 (Motion carried).
09:52:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 7.
09:53:03 Need to receive and file.
09:53:05 >> So moved.
09:53:06 >> Second.
09:53:06 (Motion carried).
09:53:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Number 8 needs to continue for 30 days.
09:53:10 >> So moved.
09:53:11 >> Second.
09:53:11 (Motion carried).
09:53:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 9.
09:53:15 Receive and file.
09:53:18 >> So moved.
09:53:18 >> Second.
09:53:19 (Motion carried).
09:53:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Madam Chairman?
09:53:24 I wanted to ask the council members who serve on the
09:53:27 MPO to be our watchdogs, to make sure that all of the
09:53:31 requests we are making get put into the budget, and
09:53:34 followed through on.
09:53:35 Because the city has a very good record of getting our
09:53:39 requests made.
09:53:41 But it's due to the sharp eyes of our members.
09:53:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 10.
09:53:55 >>ROY LAMOTTE: Good morning members of the council,
09:53:58 new members I haven't met before.
09:53:59 It's my pleasure to be here this morning.
09:54:01 You have some questions related to the Port Tampa
09:54:07 It's a very important part of our city.
09:54:09 There was a study done back in 2005.
09:54:12 And that study was performed by URS.
09:54:15 And again the study provided some alternative
09:54:17 solutions to them outlining both short term and
09:54:21 long-term improvements.
09:54:23 As a result of that study, we have installed
09:54:25 crosswalks at the Interbay intersection.
09:54:32 MacDill has obviously constructed a new gate, is
09:54:34 now complete, and provides adequate queuing so it's
09:54:37 not backing into the neighborhood.
09:54:38 And we are wedening Westshore Boulevard, the three
09:54:42 lanes, capacity improvement from the Interbay to Gandy
09:54:47 I am also pleased to tell you this morning that we
09:54:49 evaluated the signal installation at the intersection
09:54:51 of commerce, Westshore and Interbay boulevards, that
09:54:55 is currently under design and should be complete this
09:54:58 We are looking to spring construction.
09:55:01 We also recognize that there's been speeding problems
09:55:03 in this particular neighborhood, in this section of
09:55:06 the city, and particularly on west McCoy between
09:55:10 south Manhattan and South Westshore Boulevard.
09:55:13 We are conduct ago traffic calming project on that
09:55:15 this fiscal year.
09:55:16 And it should be complete before the fiscal year is
09:55:20 We have recognized also some additional speeding areas
09:55:24 in the particular vicinity.
09:55:25 And I have outlined those to you, and will continue to
09:55:28 look at those areas, and we recognize that speeding is
09:55:31 a problem here.
09:55:32 These areas are posted at 30 miles an hour.
09:55:35 And we are experiencing speeds of 48, 50 miles per
09:55:38 They have worked with our counterparts, the Tampa
09:55:40 Police Department, and asked them to step up immediate
09:55:44 enforcement in these areas.
09:55:46 Again, we continue to have this area as a priority for
09:55:49 us to keep a watch out.
09:55:50 We continue to look at the truck problems that enter
09:55:54 this area, and we look at the connectivity related to
09:55:57 sidewalk in this area.
09:55:58 So the area has our immediate attention, it has our
09:56:02 long-range attention, and I think we are making
09:56:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
09:56:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you for continuing to monitor
09:56:09 Perhaps in 90 days you could come back and tell us how
09:56:12 we are doing with sidewalks.
09:56:14 Also, picnic island is a beautiful destination point
09:56:18 in our recreational system.
09:56:23 And yet it's really scary to try to walk or ride a
09:56:27 bike down there because of the giant trucks, you know,
09:56:32 old tankers that are sharing the T road that goes
09:56:35 through our recreational area, going to be heavy
09:56:37 industrial area.
09:56:38 Perhaps in 90 days when you come back you can share
09:56:40 with us our plans to create perhaps a safer passage
09:56:44 for bicycles and pedestrians down there.
09:56:46 >>> It would be my pleasure to come back in 90 days.
09:56:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's a motion that we hear back
09:56:51 from him in 09 days.
09:56:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
09:56:53 (Motion carried).
09:56:56 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. LaMotte, the completion of
09:57:00 Cross Creek Boulevard at the intersection of Cross
09:57:02 Creek and Cory lake, I understand there's a red light
09:57:05 that's proposed there.
09:57:07 Do you know what the status is?
09:57:08 >>> Developer is on a hook to pay for that particular
09:57:11 >> What developer?
09:57:13 >>> The develop theory built the Cory lake island.
09:57:15 >> Okay.
09:57:16 >>> And we are pursuing that, try to encourage him to
09:57:20 build the signal now.
09:57:21 Obviously, complete the other section and the widening
09:57:24 of Cross Creek is just about almost complete.
09:57:27 By the way, we are waiting some signal head deliveries
09:57:30 on there, and will be able to turn those on shortly
09:57:33 for you.
09:57:33 But related to Cory lake isles, the developer, his end
09:57:43 of the bargain on that deal.
09:57:45 >> Is he willing to pay for that red light?
09:57:47 >>> He's obligated to.
09:57:50 >> And that's your determination when that red light
09:57:52 goes in?
09:57:53 >>> I can't give you a determination at this time
09:57:55 because he hasn't committed to putting the funds in
09:57:59 Once they are in place then we can obviously work
09:58:01 towards construction.
09:58:02 >> How long will this take?
09:58:04 >>> Again we are entering into conversation was legal
09:58:06 right now and their attorney: I'll have to defer to
09:58:11 the legal department.
09:58:12 >> I received a number of calls from different
09:58:15 That's a four-way intersection.
09:58:17 And it's tough getting out of there.
09:58:20 >>> I understand that.
09:58:22 >> Thank you.
09:58:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. LaMotte, at a on the I noticed
09:58:36 like Columbus drive and MacDill where describing
09:58:39 is done for the left turn signalization, but the
09:58:41 signals are not there.
09:58:45 >>> Relative to left turn --
09:58:47 >> Yes.
09:58:48 >>> I'm not aware of that.
09:58:49 >> I'll get with you person to person.
09:58:51 I don't want to take council's time now.
09:58:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
09:58:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Roy, I'm sorry, I had to step out
09:58:57 for a second.
09:58:58 But in regard to Port Tampa, you said they are going
09:59:03 to put in a light there?
09:59:05 >>> That's correct.
09:59:05 >> I think it's fantastic. The folks down there, you
09:59:08 know, every meeting that you go to, it always seems to
09:59:10 be an issue, what are we going to do at that corner?
09:59:13 It's a dangerous, dangerous corner, it's a heavily
09:59:17 truck trafficked corner and I think it's fantastic we
09:59:20 are going to do that.
09:59:22 Let's hope that these possible budget cuts won't
09:59:25 impact the traffic light, try to get it in before the
09:59:28 cuts come.
09:59:30 But, anyway, let's do our best to keep it on the
09:59:33 Because I know previously they got upset because they
09:59:35 thought they were going to get around about there, and
09:59:38 then the various budgetary issues there and other
09:59:41 issues took away the potential for a roundabout there.
09:59:48 Let's give them that light.
09:59:49 >>> We are working in that direction.
09:59:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Mr. LaMotte.
09:59:52 Item number 11, need to continue that for 30 days.
09:59:55 >> So moved.
09:59:55 >> Second.
09:59:55 (Motion carried).
09:59:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 12 we need to receive and file.
09:59:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to compliment Thom Snelling
10:00:02 and Cindy Miller and the fire chief for all working
10:00:06 together on this new project.
10:00:08 It used to be that if there was a fire that the
10:00:11 procedures were called how do you demolish it,
10:00:14 procedures for demolition.
10:00:15 And now the to call the cup full it's called
10:00:20 stabilization and evaluation.
10:00:21 The presumption is you bring in people who are expert
10:00:24 in this area, and evaluate whether the building can be
10:00:27 So it's a very significant improvement, that's done
10:00:32 completely internally by the administration.
10:00:34 I want to compliment them on the work and hope they
10:00:37 don't have any reasons to use this in the near future
10:00:40 because we have too many fires.
10:00:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
10:00:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to receive and file
10:00:48 item 12.
10:00:49 (Motion carried)
10:00:50 Number 13.
10:00:51 Mr. Shelby.
10:00:57 Item number 13.
10:00:58 What's the pleasure of council members?
10:01:00 Discuss it or continue it?
10:01:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I would like to continue it.
10:01:05 I haven't had a chance to read it.
10:01:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:01:09 Two weeks?
10:01:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to continue item 13
10:01:12 for two weeks.
10:01:12 (Motion carried).
10:01:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I second that.
10:01:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 15.
10:01:33 >> Virginia park?
10:01:35 >>THE CLERK: Yesterday received from the Planning
10:01:38 Commission written report.
10:01:39 I believe that was provided to council yesterday.
10:01:40 >>GWEN MILLER: need to receive and file?
10:01:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: He think we do need to discuss this
10:01:46 because it's been a very important I shall to you many
10:01:48 people in Virginia park.
10:01:50 What happened was, we did a motion for a plan
10:01:56 The staff did the process with the neighborhood.
10:02:00 It went to the Planning Commission.
10:02:03 And the Planning Commission found -- they found it
10:02:06 inconsistent and they requested in their memo that it
10:02:08 be rolled over into the plan update.
10:02:12 I have a feeling some people in the neighborhood
10:02:13 aren't going to be too thrilled with that, and I think
10:02:16 that's why it's worthy of public discussion.
10:02:18 So I'll move to continue two weeks, and ask the
10:02:20 Planning Commission staff to come over and chat with
10:02:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: In order to make it convenient for
10:02:28 the Virginia park residents, might I suggest that we
10:02:31 discuss this at maybe 5:15 before our 5:30 zoning
10:02:36 meeting so they can come over after work?
10:02:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Great idea.
10:02:40 Two weeks from tonight would be a zoning meeting.
10:02:44 26th at 5:15.
10:02:46 And --
10:02:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Do we have a 5:30?
10:02:51 >> We have a 5:01 but it's just one thing.
10:02:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And ask our planning staff as well
10:02:56 as the Planning Commission staff to be here, and also
10:02:59 I would ask the clerk perhaps hopefully to notify the
10:03:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Other questions by council members?
10:03:08 All in favor of that motion by say.
10:03:09 Opposed Nay?
10:03:11 (Motion carried).
10:03:12 Item number 16.
10:03:16 Want to continue that for 60 days.
10:03:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
10:03:19 >> Second.
10:03:20 (Motion carried).
10:03:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 17.
10:03:25 Going to hear from EPC.
10:03:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Are they here?
10:03:33 >>GWEN MILLER: I think so.
10:03:36 >> Sterling Woodard, with the Environmental Protection
10:03:38 Commission for Hillsborough County.
10:03:41 I have here with me Jason waters, also with EPC.
10:03:45 We are here to answer any questions that you may have
10:03:47 regarding the ethanol plant.
10:03:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Any questions by council members?
10:03:51 Mr. Dingfelder?
10:03:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
10:03:53 Welcome, sir.
10:03:54 Thanks for coming over.
10:03:56 We appreciate it.
10:03:57 As you well know, if you're involved with this issue,
10:03:59 I guess, various residents around Davis Island are
10:04:04 very concerned about the proposed ethanol plant that I
10:04:07 guess is actually being proposed to be built in the
10:04:09 county, in the county jurisdiction on port authority
10:04:14 And they have been concerned, they want to know how to
10:04:19 get involved in the process, et cetera, and that's
10:04:23 why, you know, and I understand there is a permitting
10:04:25 process through the DEP and involving you guys as well
10:04:31 for the air issues.
10:04:31 That's why I wanted you to sort of come here and
10:04:34 publicly tell folks, you know, what that process is,
10:04:38 and how the public can get involved in it, either
10:04:40 through various participations or challenges or what
10:04:43 have you.
10:04:44 >>> Okay.
10:04:45 The DEP is actually responsible for the permitting of
10:04:47 the plant.
10:04:49 The permit was issued, I guess, in April of 2006.
10:04:52 And under a delegation agreement that we have with
10:04:55 them, they issued a permit but we actually do the
10:04:59 compliant part of it, meaning we respond to the
10:05:02 We would go out and do the inspection.
10:05:04 And any possible enforcement or whatever, we would
10:05:07 actually take the lead on that.
10:05:10 The permit was issued in April.
10:05:12 It is to construct a source, to build it, to test it,
10:05:16 and then to possibly apply for an operating permit.
10:05:20 That construction permit doesn't expire until
10:05:23 sometime, I think in, June of 2009.
10:05:26 Generally these types of plants take about a year and
10:05:28 a half two, years to build.
10:05:30 They are building them all over the country.
10:05:32 I actually, during the process of this permitting
10:05:36 action, actually went on the Internet and looked at a
10:05:39 lot of the different construction activities, and
10:05:41 there are probably about a hundred of them all
10:05:43 throughout the United States.
10:05:44 A lot of them out in the midwest.
10:05:47 But, anyway, when that permit comes in for renewal,
10:05:50 they are required to submit all of the testing and all
10:05:52 of the record keeping to show that they are capable of
10:05:55 operating the permit, because the construction permit
10:05:57 only allows them to construct it, and to prove to us
10:06:00 that they can comply with the rules and regulations.
10:06:03 So before it actually expires, they actually have to
10:06:06 submit an application for to us review.
10:06:10 We will be doing a code review with department of
10:06:12 environmental protection.
10:06:13 Generally, with this type of permit, the public input,
10:06:17 or the public involvement, is primarily with the
10:06:20 construction permit.
10:06:21 Because when the construction permit is issued, it had
10:06:24 to be noticed in a paper, the Tampa Tribune, or some
10:06:28 paper like that.
10:06:29 And generally, once they construct it, they construct
10:06:32 it and build it in accordance with the permit, and
10:06:35 they demonstrate compliance, they do all the testing.
10:06:38 Then generally those kinds of permits don't require
10:06:41 additional public notice.
10:06:42 But they are all -- there are provisions in the DEP
10:06:46 rules that if they so elect to, they can allow the
10:06:48 public a point of entry but that would be something
10:06:52 you would have to discuss with the DEP or the citizens
10:06:55 would have to discuss with the DEP because they would
10:06:57 have the lead on the permitting process.
10:06:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I know that one of the biggest
10:07:01 concerns is odor, the potential for odor to drift
10:07:05 across the water to the residents around Davis Island.
10:07:11 It could even be Channelside, now that Channelside is
10:07:13 starting to have more residents.
10:07:15 And is that a concern of EPC?
10:07:18 I know you all get involved in these issues around --
10:07:22 >>> Right, we definitely do.
10:07:23 It is a concern.
10:07:24 One of the things that is in the permit, the provision
10:07:27 of the permit that says that they cannot cause
10:07:29 objectionable odors.
10:07:32 There may be some odors, but the question of whether
10:07:34 or not the odors are objectionable depends on whether
10:07:37 or not we get a lot of complaints on it.
10:07:39 This unit, however, is a state-of-the-art type of
10:07:43 Almost every emission unit or quote potential source
10:07:47 of odor has some type of control device, whether it's
10:07:51 a scrubber or bag house or something like that.
10:07:54 So the bottom line is that if it's properly operated,
10:07:58 then the potential for odor is greatly reduced.
10:08:01 But if there are odors, if there are complaints, the
10:08:04 EPC does have the lead on the compliance and
10:08:07 And we would react just like we would with any other
10:08:10 odor source or odor complaint.
10:08:12 We would go out and investigate it.
10:08:14 And if we found any validity to the complaint we would
10:08:17 take the appropriate action up and to including
10:08:21 >>MARY MULHERN: I need you to clarify for me a little
10:08:24 bit on that.
10:08:25 Permitting process, the construction permit, is that
10:08:29 the permit they already received?
10:08:30 >>> Yes, ma'am.
10:08:31 >> So the time for public notice and discussion is --
10:08:34 has already happened?
10:08:35 >>> Right.
10:08:36 On that construction permit, it was.
10:08:37 Because when they were issued the permit, I think it
10:08:40 went final.
10:08:41 So prior to that, they probably were issued a draft
10:08:44 permit that basically gave the public an opportunity
10:08:47 to comment on it.
10:08:49 In addition to that, when we receive -- when the
10:08:52 application was received by the DEP and we did a code
10:08:55 review, under our own local -- we did more, actually
10:09:01 required they post a sign, notify the neighborhood
10:09:04 organizations within a one-mile radius to actually let
10:09:07 the public know about this particular project.
10:09:09 >> And so one of them -- the opportunity for public
10:09:16 >>> Whenever the application comes in, and like I
10:09:18 said, they are required to submit it, the construction
10:09:20 permit expires, I think, in June of 2009.
10:09:23 But within 60 days of getting to them the maximum
10:09:27 production after they started at the unit, they have
10:09:29 to test, and then a certain period of time, I believe
10:09:32 it's like 90 days after they submit the testing, they
10:09:35 then have to submit an application.
10:09:37 When that application comes in, sometime before 2009,
10:09:41 then the DEP could elect, okay, to publish in a
10:09:47 newspaper, require the applicant to publish in a
10:09:49 newspaper that application and allow the citizens an
10:09:53 opportunity to comment.
10:09:55 >>MARY MULHERN: Another question.
10:09:57 Do you know the source of the biosource is for the
10:10:02 What are they using?
10:10:04 Is it corn?
10:10:05 >>> It's corn.
10:10:06 >> And so that's being imported from -- brought in
10:10:09 from --
10:10:11 >>> Well, depending on where they can bring the corn
10:10:15 It's just basically corn.
10:10:16 It could be domestic or could be from somewhere else.
10:10:19 >> And do you have any kind of report or statistics on
10:10:23 what the overall impact of this as far as the energy
10:10:27 used to create this, and the savings we have?
10:10:34 >>> No, ma'am, I don't have that information.
10:10:36 >> Where would that come from?
10:10:39 >>> You may be able to get some information like that.
10:10:42 I mean, from some of the actual growers.
10:10:44 Some of the regulatory agencies like the Department of
10:10:48 Energy or other people may have, you know, that kind
10:10:50 of information.
10:10:55 If that is something you would ask I could get back
10:10:58 with you and find out where you could get the energy
10:11:01 consumption information.
10:11:02 >> I think that would be interesting to people of
10:11:04 Tampa Bay and people of Tampa to know if we are
10:11:07 getting this bio fuel ethanol plant, if there is
10:11:11 actually a real positive impact on our environment.
10:11:15 Besides just the small --
10:11:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This is an issue where you this is
10:11:22 being located in the county and we are being told as
10:11:24 City Council that we don't have much say-so.
10:11:27 We weren't notified.
10:11:28 And that's concerning.
10:11:31 So what I would like to do is to ask our attorney if
10:11:33 there's the opportunity to request or -- that the City
10:11:37 of Tampa and City Council and the administration be
10:11:40 notified when there's something that's significant
10:11:43 that's being proposed that's not within our boundaries
10:11:46 but downwind.
10:11:48 Because if our citizens are negatively impacted by it,
10:11:50 we are the ones who are going to hear about it.
10:11:52 So we need to have an opportunity to weigh in on the
10:11:55 I guess this is a question for Mr. Smith, if you
10:11:59 Can we request or demand or in some way make sure that
10:12:04 the administration and council is notified when a
10:12:07 project of this significance is being reviewed by the
10:12:10 EPC that while it's not within the city, has the
10:12:13 potential to impact city residents?
10:12:15 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
10:12:17 We can certainly look into what the requirements are
10:12:20 in order to be a participant in the process.
10:12:22 And whether we would have standing, or whether we
10:12:25 would have rights.
10:12:26 So we'll look at that issue.
10:12:28 The administration does watch.
10:12:29 I'm sure -- and I'm not sure there hasn't been some
10:12:32 involvement already.
10:12:32 I have just not been personally involved in those
10:12:34 discussions but I'll find out.
10:12:37 >> Do we need to make a motion to request you to come
10:12:40 back with that?
10:12:41 >>> You don't have to.
10:12:42 But let me find that out.
10:12:44 I'll come back in a couple of weeks or I'll talk to
10:12:46 you individually if it's something --
10:12:48 >> Let's put it on our agenda for 60 days, and report
10:12:51 back on this.
10:12:52 That's a motion.
10:12:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
10:12:54 (Motion carried).
10:12:58 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Where is the nearest plant that's
10:13:00 similar to this?
10:13:01 And who owns these plants?
10:13:05 >>> Similar plants, the closest one, I actually have a
10:13:10 list of them from the Internet and I pulled it off but
10:13:13 had to turn my phone off.
10:13:15 I have a phone that actually allows me to be able to
10:13:18 look at all my Internet e-mail and stuff.
10:13:21 But I can't remember offhand what is the closest one,
10:13:25 maybe in the southwest.
10:13:26 But I do remember a significant number of them being
10:13:28 out in Iowa, South Dakota, like in the midwest.
10:13:32 But they are owned by a number of different companies.
10:13:36 The one that's being constructed here proposed is
10:13:39 called U.S. ENVIRO fuels.
10:13:44 I remember looking at a list of 100 of them and I
10:13:47 don't remember seeing a U.S. ENVIRO anywhere else.
10:13:55 They are all about the same size.
10:13:57 I this think is about 50 million gallons of year of
10:14:00 When I looked at the list, there was a significant
10:14:03 number of them that were 50 million-gallons a year,
10:14:05 that kind of thing.
10:14:06 So they are owned by a host of different companies.
10:14:10 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Madam Chairman, we are supposed
10:14:13 to have a report from Chief Jones on this, according
10:14:16 to the backup information?
10:14:19 It says Tampa Fire Rescue to appear April 12th and
10:14:23 provide update on fire safety issues.
10:14:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Right.
10:14:27 They were supposed to this morning.
10:14:29 But I don't think anyone is here.
10:14:32 >> Do we have a written report from him?
10:14:33 >>GWEN MILLER: No.
10:14:37 >> So it's very possible when could replace our orange
10:14:40 groves with corn field here in Tampa then?
10:14:55 >>> If you would like to New York City we would be
10:14:56 able to get that information for you.
10:15:00 >>MARY MULHERN: If I understand it, ethanol plants are
10:15:02 really -- there's heavy use of water to these, right?
10:15:05 >>> Yes, ma'am.
10:15:06 >> How many gallons were you just talking about, the
10:15:08 fuel that we are going to create?
10:15:11 I'm not --
10:15:13 >>> I'm not sure about the water.
10:15:14 I think they went to the water department or something
10:15:16 like that.
10:15:17 And someone probably required that they get some type
10:15:20 of water use permit.
10:15:21 I don't know offhand.
10:15:25 >> I think we have a lot of environmental questions
10:15:30 here that aren't just about the smell.
10:15:32 We have the concern about the water, the safety, and
10:15:34 I'm wondering, number one, if they are planning to use
10:15:37 reclaimed water, and, if so, if they are going to
10:15:40 agree to pay for whatever hookups they need to do
10:15:45 >>> Right.
10:15:45 It may be that you may want to request someone from
10:15:48 the county come down and respond to that, because I'm
10:15:51 sure that it would have to get some kind of a permit.
10:15:53 But it is going to be a significant amount of water
10:15:56 that's going to be reused throughout the process.
10:15:58 As a matter of fact, most of the material like after
10:16:05 they it into the fermentation tanks they mix it with
10:16:09 the water and put it into the fermentation tanks, and
10:16:14 the sludge or solid from are going to be recycled back
10:16:18 to a drier and shipped off and used like an animal
10:16:21 feed, so there will be very little material that will
10:16:23 be wasted with this particular process.
10:16:25 But the actual amount of water that they'll be using,
10:16:27 I don't know.
10:16:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: When the issue first came up of
10:16:33 water was one of the headline issues, and I believe
10:16:35 the number was 800,000 gallons a day.
10:16:39 As a net use.
10:16:40 So it is a significant use.
10:16:43 Right now, the city, ironically, the city is the
10:16:49 And it is our service area.
10:16:51 So we contractually and statutorily, I think, we are
10:16:55 the provider of water in that area for that part of
10:16:57 the port.
10:16:59 And so it's my understanding in talking to the water
10:17:02 department that they don't have to come to us.
10:17:05 All they have to do is go over to the water
10:17:07 department, and figure out a way to get a slightly
10:17:11 larger pipe, because we have a large pipe over there,
10:17:14 get a slightly larger pipe to their doorstep.
10:17:17 To provide them with -- and it's potable water.
10:17:21 Unfortunately because we don't have a reclaimed water
10:17:23 line over on that side by that port.
10:17:28 I have had discussions with them, and I think Mr.
10:17:30 Daignault was in front of us on this water issue, to
10:17:33 talk about encouraging them, or hopefully even
10:17:38 demanding that they pay for a reclaimed water trunk to
10:17:42 go over in that direction, because it's not that far
10:17:45 from our plant.
10:17:47 And that they would pay for a water trunk, reclaimed
10:17:51 water trunk to get over to their plant.
10:17:54 At least almost a million gallons a day would be
10:17:58 I think it's a very important point that you bring up.
10:18:02 >>GWEN MILLER: Other questions by council members?
10:18:03 Thank you, sir.
10:18:04 We appreciate you coming in.
10:18:05 Is there anyone in the public that would like to
10:18:07 request reconsideration of legislative matters?
10:18:12 Before we go to our audience portion I would like to
10:18:15 read this into the record.
10:18:16 This is the portion of the agenda where City Council
10:18:19 welcomes comments from citizens on any item on the
10:18:22 agenda that are not set for public hearing.
10:18:26 If you are here for a public hearing, you will have
10:18:29 the opportunity to address council.
10:18:32 When that hearing is open later in the agenda.
10:18:36 Subjects you may wish to raise with City Council that
10:18:38 are not on the agenda will be taken at the end of
10:18:40 today's meeting.
10:18:42 Council rules regarding public comments are summarized
10:18:46 at the end of the printed agenda.
10:18:48 We ask that you state your name and address, and speak
10:18:52 clearly into the microphone.
10:18:55 Each speaker has up to three minutes.
10:18:57 Please mention the item number of the agenda of the
10:19:00 subject that you wish to talk about.
10:19:03 We ask that you keep your comments not only to the
10:19:06 issues on the agenda that are not set for public
10:19:10 Thank you.
10:19:11 At this time we are going to go to comments from the
10:19:14 Anyone in the public that would like to speak to any
10:19:16 item on the agenda not set for public hearing.
10:19:20 >>> Good mornings.
10:19:22 Cass, landmark realty, item number 7.
10:19:25 I believe by now you have all received a copy of the
10:19:27 e-mail I sent to all of you regarding this item.
10:19:31 If you haven't, I have additional copies.
10:19:34 I apologize to Mr. Shelby for not sending him a copy.
10:19:37 But I don't have his e-mail address.
10:19:40 I sent one to the clerk.
10:19:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Number 70?
10:19:50 >>GWEN MILLER: 7.
10:19:52 >> If you received the e-mail and you all read it I am
10:19:55 not going to bother going through all the steps again.
10:19:59 Basically, the situation that I bring before you is,
10:20:03 my company is the property owner of the property on
10:20:06 37th street.
10:20:06 Apparently two weeks ago, Kevin came to you and
10:20:11 explained that he incurred violations on the property,
10:20:13 and our position after working six months on this is,
10:20:17 with the city staff -- and I want to thank the
10:20:19 building department right now for helping me and our
10:20:22 staff do the best they could getting the scope of
10:20:24 their jobs, but we haven't been able to work things
10:20:30 As I see it, our choices are either city staff can
10:20:33 continue to work, which is fine with us, as long as I
10:20:39 get it in writing that I'm not going to be
10:20:41 responsible, because for some reason the city seems to
10:20:43 feel it should be me, or we can -- I have no problems
10:20:49 at this point, I don't want to do it, I don't want to
10:20:51 put East Tampa -- he's in a CRA, in an economic
10:20:57 development area, the city, you know, tries to do a
10:21:00 lot to bring businesses into these areas.
10:21:02 Here's a minority owned business where he employs
10:21:05 mostly minorities, he's telling me he pays out half a
10:21:10 million dollars in salaries a year.
10:21:11 I know this has been an ongoing -- I found out this
10:21:15 has been an ongoing problem with him.
10:21:19 As I said, I think basically as far as we are
10:21:23 concerned, we have one of three options any one is
10:21:27 fine with us and the council feel free to pick.
10:21:29 I have no preference one way or the other.
10:21:31 One is, if I am told by council, or if you choose to,
10:21:36 I'm happy to pursue it and we'll shut him down.
10:21:42 But I wanted to be clear once I start down that road
10:21:44 if the administration or someone else changes their
10:21:46 mind and say, we changed our mind, we looked into it,
10:21:50 I have gone through this for six months.
10:21:52 It's cost me and my staff a lot of time and a lot of
10:21:55 And I'm not going to just keep on moving backwards on
10:21:59 Second is, if City Council wishes to discuss with
10:22:03 staff, work with the center that's great but I want in
10:22:08 the writing that the city isn't coming after me for
10:22:10 the money.
10:22:11 We don't feel we owe it.
10:22:13 Our attorneys don't feel we owe the money.
10:22:15 I just want to avoid the litigation down the road.
10:22:18 And I'm fine with that.
10:22:19 You can take as much time as you want to work things
10:22:21 out with him.
10:22:22 The third is, if City Council wants to discuss this
10:22:26 with staff, some more, I don't have a problem with
10:22:28 that either.
10:22:29 I'm willing to hold off on an eviction proceeding but
10:22:32 I would like it on the record that City Council is
10:22:34 requesting from staff that no enforcement action be
10:22:37 taken against me or my company, and that we are giving
10:22:39 the opportunity to evict the tenant and avoid city
10:22:43 fines should you decide that you ultimately want us to
10:22:45 evict him.
10:22:47 I realize you cannot directed stay staff what to do
10:22:49 but you can put it on the record and by putting it on
10:22:52 the record the ultimate appeal comes to council at
10:22:54 least we would be somewhat protected.
10:22:56 Thank you for your time.
10:22:57 I look forward to any direction you wish to give me on
10:23:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I am just going to bring to
10:23:03 your attention a reminder under rule 4 that you should
10:23:06 avoid any discussion, you as council, of matters at a
10:23:09 public meeting where the city is or is likely to be a
10:23:12 party in litigation without concurrence of council.
10:23:14 Mr. Smith is here.
10:23:15 He's aware of the situation.
10:23:16 And he can briefly apprise council about how this will
10:23:22 be, I believe, handled.
10:23:23 If council wishes to have a private briefing with Mr.
10:23:26 Smith, attorney, that would be appropriate.
10:23:28 But at the time presently I think it would be
10:23:30 inappropriate for council to give any sort of
10:23:32 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
10:23:35 Marty succinctly summarized what I was going to say.
10:23:38 We are working on a compliance agreement.
10:23:41 What we are involved with is finding all the
10:23:43 additional issues that need to be addressed so the
10:23:45 compliance agreement is sufficient.
10:23:47 That includes talking to CSE.
10:23:49 So we hope to be able to wrap this up.
10:23:51 I heard what the gentleman says.
10:23:53 He seems sincere in trying to solve the problem F.so I
10:23:56 am sure we will wrap it up.
10:23:58 I encourage you not to say anything at this juncture
10:24:00 but would be happy to answer questions privately if
10:24:02 you like.
10:24:02 >>GWEN MILLER: We just made a motion to continue.
10:24:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No, not this one.
10:24:06 >>GWEN MILLER: we have a lot of problems we need to
10:24:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This is the one, if I remember, he
10:24:16 has about 30 or so residents signing a petition, and
10:24:19 it makes pallets, and there's a bunch of dust.
10:24:22 Am I correct?
10:24:24 >>> Yes, sir.
10:24:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move to continue.
10:24:25 How much time that both sides need to try to rectify
10:24:30 >>> I'm looking to Ernie Mueller who is handling the
10:24:34 30 days, 60 days?
10:24:40 >>> Ernest Mueller, assistant city attorney.
10:24:42 Good mornings.
10:24:43 In light of obviously the work that would need to be
10:24:45 done on this, I would say almost 90 days.
10:24:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'll make a motion for 90 days
10:24:52 penning that they also notified those 30 or so
10:24:55 neighbors that sign in that you are working on it to
10:24:58 try to get this thing resolved for betterment for
10:25:01 their neighborhood.
10:25:02 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:25:07 Reverend Scott?
10:25:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I hate to say this.
10:25:13 But I think it's been going on.
10:25:17 >> When I first got elected.
10:25:19 No, I'm serious.
10:25:20 I think it moved from one location to another.
10:25:25 Some things got done.
10:25:27 But I think it's been a long time.
10:25:30 I think if we can resolve this in a negotiated manner
10:25:33 within 90 days, maybe they can do something in the
10:25:36 building where they keep just like the ethanol plant,
10:25:40 keep things inside, it would be better off.
10:25:43 The jobs wouldn't be lost.
10:25:44 The neighborhood would be cleaned.
10:25:45 And things of that nature.
10:25:47 And I may be wrong in saying that, because he would
10:25:49 don't have the jurisdiction.
10:25:50 They do.
10:25:51 But if they can clean it up.
10:25:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay with that?
10:25:56 We have a motion and second.
10:25:56 (Motion carried).
10:26:07 >>MOSES KNOTT, JR.: Good morning.
10:26:10 I reside at 2902 East Ellicott street three nights a
10:26:15 Then I just thank God for his grace and his mercy.
10:26:20 Everywhere I go, I thank God for his grace and mercy.
10:26:24 A lot of people can make it without it but I can't.
10:26:29 A long ways.
10:26:30 I ain't supposed to be standing here this morning but
10:26:33 God has me standing here. This article 2 you all are
10:26:35 talking about, that's what it got started about.
10:26:38 Article 2.
10:26:40 Mr. John, you are right.
10:26:45 We do need those signs.
10:26:47 Linda Saul-Sena, I love you, but you know how I feel
10:26:50 about politicians.
10:26:51 I don't trust 'em.
10:26:54 But now that sign thing, that's how it got out of
10:27:00 But when you first brought that sign thing about
10:27:02 emergencies, let me tell you something, you know.
10:27:07 Something that happened a long time ago, what happened
10:27:10 in New Orleans.
10:27:18 People like you Barnard them, this is what's going to
10:27:20 happen one day.
10:27:21 Let me tell but those signs.
10:27:22 With you are right about those signs.
10:27:24 They say right there on Davis Island, they say the
10:27:26 long-time -- when Thomas Scott was there -- the
10:27:31 efforts if a storm ever come, Davis Island was going
10:27:35 to be the first one to get blowed out.
10:27:37 So now if you put the signs there, you know who will
10:27:43 be out of there first?
10:27:44 The people that believe in God.
10:27:47 They gonna stay right there.
10:27:49 That happened in New Orleans.
10:27:51 They stayed right there.
10:27:53 They wouldn't go there.
10:27:55 A bunch of voodoo and everything.
10:27:58 You know, this town is full of sin.
10:28:03 Ooh, this town is full of sin.
10:28:05 People, you know, they justify it.
10:28:06 You know, let me tell you all something.
10:28:10 I come in here long time ago before they got TV here.
10:28:13 I can tell you something about what happened around
10:28:16 Made me feel good to hear Mr. Smith to say he
10:28:19 represent the public.
10:28:20 We have never had anybody represent us.
10:28:25 But you represents you all.
10:28:27 He represents whatever was said up there, and didn't
10:28:30 have nothing to do with us.
10:28:32 But we never had no rights in this town.
10:28:36 Mr. Shelby, when you first come here, didn't I tell
10:28:39 you, if you take that job, these people, I said they
10:28:48 have overthrowed the law.
10:28:49 Let me tell you what happened.
10:28:53 They had like tag teams things.
10:28:56 But long time ago, the mayor had a separate office and
10:29:02 had a separate office over here.
10:29:03 Mayor Freedman used to come through here and walk
10:29:06 through the door many mornings.
10:29:08 I have something I need you all to assignment
10:29:12 You need to know what you are putting your name on.
10:29:19 You don't walk -- she knows what I'm talking about.
10:29:23 Don't do no walk-ons here.
10:29:26 But I thank God for Mr. Shelby and Mr. Smith to bring
10:29:31 law and order.
10:29:33 Mr. Scott, I thank God for you.
10:29:35 I used to tell people, a black politician didn't have
10:29:37 a right to say nothing.
10:29:39 Thank God you ain't scared of 'em.
10:29:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone else in the public that
10:29:44 would like to speak?
10:29:46 We now go to item number -- are we on 18, items for
10:29:51 first reading.
10:29:52 Mrs. Saul-Sena, would you read that, please.
10:29:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move the following
10:30:05 Amending ordinance number 2002-224 vacating closing
10:30:10 abandoning certain rights-of-way all of Londonderry
10:30:17 drive and Derry Way located in Tampa Palms, a
10:30:21 subdivision city of Tampa, Florida, amending the storm
10:30:25 system maintenance responsibilities of the City of
10:30:28 Tampa, providing an effective date.
10:30:31 >> Second.
10:30:31 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and sec.
10:30:32 (Motion carried).
10:30:34 Item number 19.
10:30:38 >> Can there be some discussion on that?
10:30:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: 18?
10:30:44 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Number 18.
10:30:45 In the event that reclaimed water comes in, whose
10:30:48 responsibility is that going to be to put those pipes
10:30:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Good question.
10:30:59 >>ROLANDO SANTIAGO: Legal department.
10:31:00 Mr. Council member, I don't know the answer to that.
10:31:02 I can come back when it comes back for second reading.
10:31:06 I can look into it and try to get you an answer.
10:31:08 But I don't have an answer for you on the spot today.
10:31:11 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: In reading this, the only right
10:31:13 we are given as a city to come in.
10:31:16 We have power lines in there and do they get an
10:31:19 easement also to come in there?
10:31:21 >>> Yes, sir.
10:31:22 Just a little history on this particular matter.
10:31:25 We are only amending the stormwater portion of this.
10:31:28 When the road was vacated and the reason for vacating
10:31:32 the road in 2002 was to create a private right-of-way.
10:31:35 There were easements reserved and rights given to all
10:31:38 the perspective public and private utilities that
10:31:41 needed to go in and access those homes.
10:31:43 So, yes, sir, everybody who has opportunity to that
10:31:50 has access rights over those rights-of-way.
10:31:52 That would include electric, and of course the city
10:31:55 sewer, water, and other departments.
10:31:59 Now, this particular ordinance is before you today
10:32:04 because there was some doubt as to who had the
10:32:07 stormwater maintenance responsibility.
10:32:09 That's the only matter that we are addressing today.
10:32:11 The city is going to have the stormwater maintenance
10:32:14 responsibility that has previously been on the CDD,
10:32:16 going back to the city.
10:32:18 And that's where it addresses this.
10:32:21 >> I would think the city is responsible because we do
10:32:23 pay a stormwater charge.
10:32:25 So that would be their responsibility.
10:32:27 >>> Yes, sir.
10:32:28 That is one of the reasons that it came back.
10:32:30 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Thank you.
10:32:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:32:32 We now go to item number 19.
10:32:33 Mr. Miranda.
10:32:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move to adopt ordinance presented
10:32:37 for first reading, an ordinance vacating, closing,
10:32:40 discontinuing, and abandoning a certain right-of-way
10:32:44 all of the alleyway lying east of north 22nd
10:32:46 street, west of north 24th street, south of east
10:32:49 18th Avenue, and north of east 17th Avenue, in
10:32:53 Mays addition, a subdivision in the City of Tampa,
10:32:59 Hillsborough County Florida the same being more fully
10:33:00 described in section 2 hereof providing an effective
10:33:03 >> Second.
10:33:03 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
10:33:05 (Motion carried).
10:33:05 Item 20.
10:33:06 Mr. Dingfelder.
10:33:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I move an ordinance of the city of
10:33:11 Tampa, Florida amending ordinance number 2006-169 by
10:33:14 correcting a scrivener's error in the text readopting
10:33:17 section 27-137.3, single-family attached, design
10:33:22 standards in its entirety, providing for repeal of all
10:33:25 ordinances in conflict, providing for severability,
10:33:27 providing an effective date.
10:33:29 >> Second.
10:33:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
10:33:31 (Motion carried).
10:33:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: For the council members, the new
10:33:35 council members and the public, those items that are
10:33:37 being read for first reading today will be coming back
10:33:40 for a second reading and adoption public hearing two
10:33:43 weeks from today, April 26th at 9:30 in the
10:33:47 >>GWEN MILLER: We now go to our committee reports.
10:33:49 Public safety, reverend Scott.
10:33:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I would move item number 21 and 22.
10:33:56 >> Second.
10:33:56 (Motion carried).
10:33:57 >> Parks, recreation, Linda Saul-Sena.
10:34:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move resolution
10:34:05 number 23.
10:34:06 >> Second.
10:34:06 (Motion carried).
10:34:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Public works, Mr. Charlie Miranda.
10:34:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move items 24 through 27.
10:34:13 >> Second.
10:34:14 (Motion carried).
10:34:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Finance Committee, Mr. John Dingfelder.
10:34:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll move item 28.
10:34:23 >> Second.
10:34:23 (Motion carried).
10:34:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Building and zoning, Mr. Joseph
10:34:30 Where did he go?
10:34:31 Vice chair, reverend Scott.
10:34:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I will move item 29 through 36.
10:34:39 >> Second.
10:34:40 (Motion carried).
10:34:40 >>CHAIRMAN: Transportation, Ms. Mary Mulhern.
10:34:45 >>MARY MULHERN: I move items number 37 through 40.
10:34:50 >> Second.
10:34:54 >> 37 and 38.
10:34:55 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm sorry.
10:34:57 (Motion carried).
10:35:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: would you like to set public
10:35:07 hearings, 41 --
10:35:11 >>GWEN MILLER: We don't have any.
10:35:13 Those are public hearings.
10:35:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Sorry.
10:35:15 >>GWEN MILLER: We now go to public hearings.
10:35:18 I would like everyone in the public to stand if you
10:35:20 are going to speak on item 39 or 40.
10:35:23 >> I think we need to move to open.
10:35:25 >>GWEN MILLER: They need to be sworn in first.
10:35:27 Anyone that needs to be sworn in on item 39 or 40.
10:35:30 We need to open the public hearing on 39 and 40.
10:35:33 >> Second.
10:35:33 (Motion carried).
10:35:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public to speak
10:35:41 on item 39?
10:35:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to close.
10:35:45 >> Second.
10:35:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Reverend Scott, would you read that,
10:35:50 >>> I move to adopt the following ordinance on second
10:35:52 reading, an ordinance vacating, closing,
10:35:56 discontinuing, abandoning a certain right-of-way, all
10:35:59 that portion of Sparkman Avenue lying south of
10:36:01 Columbus drive, north of Amelia Avenue, west of
10:36:04 Central Avenue and east of Jefferson street in Jensen
10:36:07 place subdivision, a subdivision located in the City
10:36:10 of Tampa, Hillsborough County, Florida, the same being
10:36:12 more fully described in section 2 hereof, providing an
10:36:15 effective date.
10:36:18 >> Motion and second.
10:36:20 Vote and record.
10:36:25 Waiting on Mr. Caetano to vote on item 39.
10:36:42 Vote yes or no.
10:37:13 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mary Mulhern voting
10:37:19 >>MARY MULHERN: I pushed the wrong button.
10:37:22 This is our first time on buttons.
10:37:27 Explain how do you -- okay, it's up there.
10:37:35 Can I change my vote?
10:37:36 >>GWEN MILLER: We are going to vote again.
10:37:37 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm sorry.
10:37:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Vote and record.
10:37:40 Let's vote again.
10:37:42 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:37:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
10:37:50 wants to speak on item 40?
10:37:52 Need to close.
10:37:53 >> So moved.
10:37:54 >> Second.
10:37:54 (Motion carried).
10:38:02 >>MARY MULHERN: I move to adopt ordinance being
10:38:06 presented for second reading.
10:38:08 An ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity
10:38:10 of 3608 west Euclid Avenue in the city of Tampa,
10:38:14 Florida and more particularly described in section 1
10:38:17 from zoning district classifications RS-50 residential
10:38:21 single-family, to RO, residential office, professional
10:38:26 office, providing an effective date.
10:38:29 >> We have a motion and second.
10:38:31 Vote and record.
10:38:34 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:38:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
10:38:44 wants to speak on items 41, 42, 43?
10:38:46 Would you please stand and raise your right hand?
10:38:48 (Oath administered by Clerk).
10:39:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I ask that council written
10:39:02 communications relative to today's hearings which have
10:39:03 been available for public inspection at City Council's
10:39:05 office be received and filed into the record at this
10:39:07 Madam clerk, do you have things to receive and file?
10:39:11 >>THE CLERK: I have one item at this time.
10:39:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
10:39:15 >> Second.
10:39:15 (Motion carried).
10:39:15 >>GWEN MILLER: need to open item 41.
10:39:18 Have a motion and second to open 41.
10:39:20 All in favor say Aye.
10:39:23 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Two items.
10:39:25 A remained fer any council members have had any verbal
10:39:28 communication with any petitioner, his or her
10:39:30 representative or any member of the public in
10:39:31 connection with any of today's hearings, that member
10:39:34 should, prior to action, disclose the following: The
10:39:39 person or persons, group or entity with whom the
10:39:41 verbal communication occurred, and the substance of
10:39:42 that verbal communication.
10:39:44 Finally, I ask that those who testify today during the
10:39:47 hearings, when you state your name, please reaffirm
10:39:50 for the record that you have been sworn.
10:39:52 I will put this little sign on the lectern to remind
10:39:57 Thank you.
10:39:58 >>GWEN MILLER: All right.
10:40:00 >>BARBARA LYNCH: Land Development Coordination.
10:40:02 Before I start, I want to give council members a copy
10:40:05 of petition that I received from the neighborhood and
10:40:09 letter from the neighborhood group objecting to this
10:40:13 And I have been sworn.
10:40:24 And I need the Elmo on, please.
10:40:26 >>GWEN MILLER: It on.
10:40:27 We have it.
10:40:33 It's on now.
10:40:33 >> This is vacating a portion of Gordon Avenue, lying
10:40:40 suit of shell road.
10:40:43 They are asking to vacate a portion of Gordon Avenue,
10:40:48 east of Mistic Point,ment
10:40:55 I have some pictures.
10:40:56 This is unimproved.
10:41:04 The petitioner is shown in red.
10:41:15 I could take this off and show the photos of this.
10:41:18 >> If you could pass it around that would be really
10:41:20 I'm sorry, Madam Chairman.
10:41:34 >>> I do have a couple of graphic showing that is
10:41:38 might show it a little better.
10:41:39 The property is in gray.
10:41:42 It's 30 feet wide.
10:41:44 And Mistic Point road is a private road.
10:41:49 It's a gated community.
10:41:51 This is she will point road.
10:41:57 That's just a little information.
10:41:58 This is an actual plat.
10:42:01 Here's the remainder.
10:42:13 This is a photo of Gordon.
10:42:16 Looking south, shell point road.
10:42:18 This is the portion that's going to be closed.
10:42:21 And this is a portion of Gordon north.
10:42:25 Area to be vacated, this is not going to be closed.
10:42:31 This is shell point Avenue looking west from Gordon
10:42:35 This is not going to be vacated.
10:42:37 This is the petitioner's property, looking east from
10:42:40 Gordon Avenue.
10:42:42 Staff has no objection to this request as long as
10:42:45 Euclidean easements are reserved for Verizon, Bright
10:42:47 House, wastewater, and TECO.
10:42:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Questions by council members?
10:42:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have a question after the
10:43:00 >>GWEN MILLER: All right.
10:43:05 >> Truett Gardner, 101 South Franklin street.
10:43:08 I actually am here in support of the petition, also
10:43:12 Gordon Schiff who is representing the petitioner.
10:43:18 And get the gist of the situation, and my presentation
10:43:24 will kind of dovetail with Gordons.
10:43:26 >> Did you say you have been sworn?
10:43:31 >>> Yes, I have.
10:43:37 My client owns the property here.
10:43:43 Gordon owns this property here.
10:43:45 And this goes back to 1925.
10:43:50 This was the record entered into there.
10:43:53 You can see the extension of Gordon Avenue, and the
10:43:57 portion highlighted in yellow is the portion that's
10:44:01 requested here.
10:44:01 That portion in yellow is important because it was in
10:44:07 1925 to serve as an sees point to lot 2 here and lot 1
10:44:11 which is there.
10:44:13 Flash forward from 1925 to 1994, and the Mistic Point
10:44:19 subdivision was put in.
10:44:21 You can see the lots along here starting at 1, 2, 3,
10:44:25 4, 5, 6.
10:44:26 For some reason -- and I am not exactly sure why --
10:44:31 they decided to put egress and ingress point in, west
10:44:36 of the Gordon Avenue extension there.
10:44:41 And that's 30 feet and that's why they chose that
10:44:46 So once they did that, going back to 1925 plat, a need
10:44:53 for that extension for these lots to be useless.
10:44:58 And this portion, the pink portion, since 1994, has
10:45:02 served actually no purpose as far as a right-of-way,
10:45:05 which means basically to transgress for transportation
10:45:13 As a result that property hasn't been maintained.
10:45:14 It's still in the city's hands.
10:45:16 But there's really no need for them to maintain the
10:45:19 portion that's 30 feet by 70 feet longs.
10:45:21 And it's become -- collected a lot of trash and more
10:45:25 importantly it's become the parking lot for service
10:45:28 vehicles and things like that, which brings us to the
10:45:33 crux of the it issue and that's the parking.
10:45:35 The problem with that is two fold.
10:45:37 One from a zoning perspective, parking is not a
10:45:40 permitted use there.
10:45:41 So it's a direct violation of the zoning code.
10:45:43 And then secondly, in the transportation code, 1551 is
10:45:49 this section which is directly on point, which says
10:45:52 that it's unlawful to park in the right-of-way except
10:45:55 in December for example natured parking spaces or
10:45:57 parking lanes.
10:45:58 So our request is to vacate that portion.
10:46:02 It will allow the property own towers maintain those,
10:46:05 for the city to have to maintain, and I believe the
10:46:08 private property owner can do it a lot faster than the
10:46:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Truett, would you go back that
10:46:18 shows the right-of-way?
10:46:19 I am kind of confused when you said which was your
10:46:23 client's property and which was Gordon's client's
10:46:28 >>> This is Gordon Avenue here.
10:46:30 Shell point here.
10:46:31 My client, TR Young, to the north.
10:46:37 >> Your client is a petitioner on this?
10:46:39 >> He actually sold Mr. Diasti his property.
10:46:43 So we have been wanting to do this for some time.
10:46:46 >> So he began the petition before he sold it?
10:46:48 >>> He actually did not file.
10:46:50 We were talking to right-of-way, transportation about
10:46:52 it at the time.
10:46:53 >> I always thought you had to be the immediately
10:46:55 adjacent and abutting property owner to file
10:46:59 >>> It was filed on behalf of Mr. Diasti.
10:47:03 So he is the petitioner.
10:47:06 >> But you are here for Mr. Young now.
10:47:10 >>> Right.
10:47:11 For your time we thought it would be good to dovetail
10:47:13 between presentations.
10:47:16 >> Go ahead.
10:47:20 >>> While you bring up that point, John, in addition
10:47:22 you mentioned abutting property owners.
10:47:24 I spoke to the owner of this property here, and they
10:47:31 were fully in support of vacates as well, and it could
10:47:36 probably be beautified with what they want it to be.
10:47:39 And that's the gist of the request.
10:47:45 Gordon will provide with you more details.
10:47:50 >>> Good morning.
10:47:51 Gordon Schiff, 1211 North Westshore, suite 401.
10:47:55 I have been sworn.
10:47:59 Just to clarify council Dingfelder's question,
10:48:01 originally Mr. Gardner was the authorized
10:48:03 representative of Dr. Diasti.
10:48:07 He remains that.
10:48:08 It's on record.
10:48:08 That's how it was originally filed.
10:48:11 I have been joined as an additional authorized
10:48:14 representative for Dr. Diasti.
10:48:16 Today we felt it would be best to try, since Mr.
10:48:19 Gardner carried this forward, to kind of lay out what
10:48:21 he had done.
10:48:22 So we apologize for any confusion but we are trying to
10:48:25 actually be efficient so we apologize.
10:48:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's fine.
10:48:28 >>> I do represent Dr. Diasti, does own the property
10:48:34 to the east of this request.
10:48:35 Our basic point here is that the existing piece of
10:48:39 right-of-way, which is being asked to be vacated,
10:48:42 serves no public purpose whatsoever, and certainly no
10:48:45 lawful public purpose, and that is in fact the most
10:48:50 important point here, is that the only objection you
10:48:52 will hear, and that was given to you in a petition, is
10:48:56 that people want to make a parking lot out of it and
10:48:59 park vehicles and so forth.
10:49:00 So I thought we should give you a little bit of a
10:49:03 flavor of what it's being use used for.
10:49:06 Here is an example on the Elmo.
10:49:11 If you can see that, you will see parking of large
10:49:14 trucks and so forth.
10:49:17 Another angle of the same photograph.
10:49:20 Here is yet another photograph for you.
10:49:22 The third photograph shows you it's really unimproved.
10:49:25 If it was improved, it hasn't been maintained.
10:49:28 It's not serve a purpose for vehicular transportation.
10:49:31 It's being used as a parking lot.
10:49:34 Another picture for you.
10:49:36 This is all in front of Dr. Diasti property.
10:49:40 How would you like this in front of your home going
10:49:43 Another photo.
10:49:45 Do you see these okay?
10:49:47 Anyway, I think that makes the point.
10:49:49 And we'll be glad to enter these into the record, our
10:49:54 We are looking at this.
10:49:55 Why would we ask for this?
10:49:57 Why would you ask for this?
10:49:58 Well, Dr. Diasti like anyone wants safety, having
10:50:02 trucks coming and going on a regular basis in front of
10:50:04 your home makes no sense.
10:50:06 There's a safety reason to vacate this right-of-way.
10:50:09 What about peaceful enjoyment of your property?
10:50:12 Trucks coming and going, parking there.
10:50:14 So if someone wants to park trucks periodically -- and
10:50:18 this happens almost on a daily basis.
10:50:22 You of course have your professional staff has
10:50:24 reviewed this.
10:50:25 They have no objections.
10:50:26 They found no reason to object to this vacating.
10:50:30 That is of course rational basis or competent
10:50:32 substantial evidence to approve this vacating.
10:50:35 And we would request your approval.
10:50:38 We also would request that you take close look at your
10:50:41 code, because what is -- the whole purpose of the
10:50:44 objections is unlawful reason, and you can't deny the
10:50:48 vacating based upon an unlawful reason.
10:50:51 So I would ask that you approve this.
10:50:53 And I would like to introduce Dr. Diasti.
10:50:57 Did he want to speak on his behalf a little bit.
10:51:00 >>> Mr. Schiff, did you want the photographs in the
10:51:04 >>> Yes, sir.
10:51:05 Also the code section that is Mr. Gardner brought.
10:51:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just a point of order.
10:51:10 I don't know if this is kind of silly.
10:51:13 But I look at Dr. Diasti then I realize his brother is
10:51:19 my doctor.
10:51:21 It's not a conflict.
10:51:22 >>> John, don't tell me we have the same doctor.
10:51:25 [ Laughter ]
10:51:28 >> I hope he doesn't kiss and tell.
10:51:32 >>> Good morning.
10:51:32 My name is deOSTI.
10:51:37 The new neighbors, the newcomers, I guess, in the
10:51:40 We bought the property a few months ago for the
10:51:43 purpose to build a house on it.
10:51:46 We had the pleasure of meeting some of the neighbors.
10:51:47 We really love the neighborhood.
10:51:49 And raise our kids in such a great community.
10:51:54 Of course it's unfortunate that I have to start as a
10:51:58 new neighbor with an issue, but this is a truly safety
10:52:03 issue for my kids, my three young kids.
10:52:08 I have three yourself old daughter, and almost two
10:52:12 years old son.
10:52:13 And basically, nobody can feel safe with trucks in
10:52:18 front of the house almost on daily basis.
10:52:20 They have been designated as a neighborhood parking
10:52:23 spot for service trucks.
10:52:25 And it could be a disservice or not.
10:52:31 There's no way for me to feel comfortable about it.
10:52:34 So I can't let my kids play in the yard.
10:52:39 I can't let them just be home with each other.
10:52:45 So that's really my -- the whole presentation was
10:52:52 basically for that reason.
10:53:01 It looks like the neighbors -- they are not opposed.
10:53:12 So basically, a safety hazard for anyone that lives
10:53:17 next to it or nearby,
10:53:29 The streets are narrow.
10:53:33 Not the narrowest in town but yet garbage trucks and
10:53:37 fire trucks can pass with no problem.
10:53:40 And there is definitely not an issue there.
10:53:48 It's basically a liability and safety issue and also
10:53:51 an eyesore in front of my house and also for my
10:53:58 So we respectfully request your approval of this
10:54:01 Thank you.
10:54:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:54:03 Questions, Ms. Saul-Sena?
10:54:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I saw there are some very beautiful
10:54:07 trees on the west part of your property. If we create
10:54:11 this vacation will you continue to maintain those?
10:54:14 >>> Absolutely.
10:54:19 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a question about what will be
10:54:20 the use if this is vacated from being public
10:54:23 What will it be used for in your home?
10:54:29 >>> Councilwoman, the vacating will simply result in
10:54:32 an additional small amount of property be added to the
10:54:36 The use will not change.
10:54:37 The use will be for one single-family home which the
10:54:41 deOSTI family is intending to build on this property.
10:54:44 >> Will there be parking there?
10:54:46 I'm just wondering what the use on their lot and on
10:54:49 their property will be.
10:54:51 >>> They haven't fully designed a home yet.
10:54:53 But there's going to be a driveway access in that
10:54:55 area, certainly, because that's the front of the
10:55:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Other questions by council members?
10:55:03 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: In the past, if this has been
10:55:05 used for a parking lot, why hasn't the city
10:55:08 transportation department gone there and put up signs,
10:55:11 no parking on right-of-way, and you could have done
10:55:13 some ticketing there.
10:55:14 Why wasn't that done?
10:55:19 >>> Gordon Schiff for the record.
10:55:21 I think staff can answer that but I think what has
10:55:23 occurred here is that this was property that has been
10:55:25 redeveloped over time, and that area has grown.
10:55:30 There's been a lot of development in that area.
10:55:31 So this is just happening in due course of taking an
10:55:35 extra piece of right-of-way that is really not needed
10:55:38 and vacating it.
10:55:45 But now I think the problem is much more significant
10:55:47 because now it affects their home.
10:55:49 So I think it's a legitimate thing that the city
10:55:52 transportation would come along now and say we don't
10:55:54 have an objection, because we don't need to maintain
10:55:57 But I think it's been a natural progression.
10:56:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
10:56:02 wants to speak on item number 41?
10:56:04 You may come up and speak now.
10:56:09 >> Lisa Rodriguez and I have been sworn in.
10:56:15 I'm a neighbor in the neighborhood.
10:56:16 I live on shell point, very close to this area that we
10:56:21 are speaking of, nearly half the street.
10:56:25 And I have been living there with my two small
10:56:27 I have a 3-year-old and 6-year-old.
10:56:30 And I witness on a daily basis the use of that area of
10:56:40 And, yes, many times it is used as overflow parking
10:56:44 because we do have extremely narrow streets.
10:56:49 Living in this neighborhood, what I have witnessed is
10:56:54 difficulty in moving around the street.
10:57:00 Both Gordon and shell point are basically single-lane
10:57:04 And in a very neighborly way, we figure out ways to
10:57:09 get by each other with just our daily use cars.
10:57:14 But when larger trucks come through, somebody has to
10:57:19 get off of the road somewhere or another, pull back
10:57:23 into their driveway.
10:57:24 That's often what I do.
10:57:25 Or exit to Bayshore going down Gordon and accessing
10:57:31 another street.
10:57:33 And shell point possibly.
10:57:34 My point in telling you and explaining this is I do
10:57:37 see that area providing useful traffic flow.
10:57:43 That area then provides, should there be a truck, like
10:57:48 a garbage truck, or a fire truck, trying to get
10:57:52 through, it provides somebody a place to pull off the
10:57:56 road, and then give right-of-way.
10:58:01 So my concern is the safety concern.
10:58:04 I agree with everybody.
10:58:06 Aesthetically, it's problematic.
10:58:09 I know.
10:58:09 I don't want a parking lot for utility vehicles
10:58:14 outside my front door either.
10:58:16 But I do see the significant importance to safety in
10:58:26 maintaining that for traffic flow.
10:58:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:58:28 Would anyone else like to speak?
10:58:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: May I ask her a question?
10:58:35 If we were to vacate this, the function you described
10:58:40 where trucks use it to kind of do a 3-point turn, is
10:58:43 there anyplace else to do that?
10:58:45 >>> No.
10:58:45 >> And can you just give me a ballpark, with Gordon
10:58:50 and then shell point?
10:58:53 >>> I'm sorry, I can't.
10:58:56 But I will tell you that I cannot, with just a
10:59:01 standard vehicle, you can't pass another vehicle on
10:59:05 that road.
10:59:06 It's not two lanes by any means.
10:59:09 >> Thank you.
10:59:10 >>> But we have to pull onto the grass, pull onto the
10:59:13 sidewalk, or pull into a driveway, in order to pass
10:59:17 one another.
10:59:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Transportation.
10:59:23 >>CALVIN THORNTON: Transportation division.
10:59:26 I haven't been sworn.
10:59:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone else need to be sworn in?
10:59:32 (Oath administered by Clerk).
10:59:41 >> Most of those roads are deficient.
10:59:43 They are only ten feet wide.
10:59:45 >> How many?
10:59:46 >> About ten to eleven feet wide.
10:59:47 But two way traffic does flow on those roadways.
10:59:50 I think what the petitioner has clearly defined is
10:59:55 because of some of the limited right-of-way and
10:59:56 limited pavement work and some of the trees actually
11:00:00 the city makes at roadway and no recovery area and no
11:00:04 sidewalk, this area can provide an opportunity for
11:00:08 those individuals to either back into when they are
11:00:13 confronted by an oncoming vehicle.
11:00:16 There are solutions that can be put into place for the
11:00:23 We could still be posting a no parking sign there.
11:00:27 Or the residents post a five-minute no parking sign in
11:00:32 front of the residents dense and that responsibility
11:00:34 of calling enforcement rests with him, if anybody
11:00:37 parks there.
11:00:38 So then the use can be used on a temporary basis for
11:00:42 somebody to back in whatever, and still remains
11:00:45 That provision is code 6243.
11:00:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. Thornton.
11:00:53 Based on what you just said, did you, a transportation
11:00:57 representative, weigh in about whether this vacating
11:01:00 was a good idea in terms of traffic flow?
11:01:03 >>> We clearly didn't see any -- when I went out there
11:01:05 I didn't see anyone parked out there or any, you know,
11:01:09 heavy use of the area.
11:01:10 I mean, the grass was still growing in that area.
11:01:13 So it was not something that seemed like it needed a
11:01:18 constant use.
11:01:18 >> So did you recommend approval or disapproval?
11:01:21 >>> We don't necessarily meet for need it for any
11:01:27 roadway purpose because it doesn't serve anything.
11:01:30 But, yes, they can use it for areas to back into when
11:01:33 they have on coming traffic.
11:01:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Could somebody put up a map again?
11:01:44 I had a thought.
11:01:47 Something tighter showing -- well, that might work.
11:01:55 What I was thinking about, I think we are all
11:01:57 sympathetic to Dr. Diasti and his new home they are
11:02:05 building, but at the same time, these roads are very,
11:02:08 very tiny.
11:02:09 I have always been surprised that we don't one-way
11:02:12 shell point to come in, and then wrap that one way up
11:02:15 Gordon to go out, then that way create a little more
11:02:19 Because I have run into that, tried to get down that
11:02:21 street and somebody is coming the other way, and it's
11:02:24 really, really hard.
11:02:26 So it's not a surprise that we have this issue of
11:02:29 overflow parking.
11:02:30 But what I was wondering about was, the lane, can you
11:02:37 point to the lane that miss tuck point is using there?
11:02:41 >>> Miss tuck point uses this common area.
11:02:43 >> And who owns that little lane coming in to Mistic
11:02:48 >>> That's a private roadway into the subdivision.
11:02:51 This is --
11:02:52 >> Is it marked private or is it public?
11:02:56 >>> They own it.
11:02:57 An individual own it.
11:03:00 >> Is there a gate?
11:03:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No, there's no gate.
11:03:04 >>> Yes, they have a gate.
11:03:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: There didn't used to be, I guess.
11:03:08 >>> The gate is located somewhere in this area right
11:03:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: All right.
11:03:13 There goes my idea.
11:03:14 I was thinking maybe we could shift the road over, and
11:03:19 then come up with -- navigation.
11:03:25 >>> Truett Gardner.
11:03:26 Going along with your point, the gate is set back from
11:03:30 shell point.
11:03:30 So there is room there for somebody to back in and
11:03:32 back out if they need.
11:03:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Put that back up and show me where
11:03:37 is gate is.
11:03:38 >>> Because of the trees you couldn't see it and I
11:03:39 couldn't tell you exactly.
11:03:42 >> Just estimated.
11:03:46 >> The gate is along here.
11:03:50 >>> You can't see the gate on this one but you can
11:03:52 sort of see the distance between shell point and where
11:03:55 the gate is on this picture so you have the distance
11:03:58 there plus where the gate begins.
11:04:00 So there is plenty of room to back in and turn around
11:04:04 if needed.
11:04:08 Backing on private property.
11:04:10 As opposed to right-of-way.
11:04:12 >> If did you that one-way circulation, then it would
11:04:14 be less of an issue, wouldn't it?
11:04:18 >>> The meeting on coming traffic definitely be less
11:04:23 of an issue.
11:04:25 There's one stretch of roadway that we couldn't do
11:04:28 anything on that's the northern portion of that
11:04:32 That affects about six homes.
11:04:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'll wait till the end.
11:04:43 >> Other questions by council members?
11:04:44 We need to close the public hearing.
11:04:47 Rebuttal, Mr. Schiff?
11:04:48 We need rebuttal.
11:04:52 >>> Gordon Schiff.
11:04:53 Just a couple points for rebuttal.
11:04:54 We can provide a photograph to you that shows people
11:04:56 parking along the street to the west.
11:04:58 So if there's a traffic flow issue, the issue is
11:05:01 parking to the west.
11:05:03 And we'll be glad to put that in the record to you.
11:05:07 But there is no -- the code controls parking issues
11:05:10 along the street, and your staff has looked at the
11:05:14 issues of traffic and has filed with you no objection
11:05:18 to this vacating other than certain reserved
11:05:31 I'll just put on the Elmo for you. This is looking to
11:05:33 the west.
11:05:33 If you look on the Elmo, and you will see people are
11:05:36 parking on the streets.
11:05:38 So that's a whole separate shall you from this
11:05:42 Now, the second point is if you think about cars
11:05:45 turning around at this parcel, that's creating a
11:05:49 very -- backing up into this parcel, that's a very
11:05:53 unsafe -- think about the maneuvers people would have
11:05:55 to make.
11:05:56 Plus, frankly, it doesn't exist today, because the
11:06:00 areas are used for parking so it isn't today a safety
11:06:03 issue of cars backing into this area to be vacate.
11:06:06 But I would suggest to you that if that were a reason
11:06:09 to deny this vacating, that would be a process that
11:06:14 the City Council shouldn't approve, because it's not a
11:06:17 safe method of cars maneuvering.
11:06:19 So we would respectfully request that you approve this
11:06:26 It is property that has no use.
11:06:29 It's not maintained by the city.
11:06:31 It's a piece of roadway that is not needed as per your
11:06:34 professional staff.
11:06:35 And we respectfully request approval.
11:06:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Schiff, what is the depth of
11:06:42 this property?
11:06:43 >>> Depth of the parcel to be vacated?
11:06:45 >> No, the depth of the doctor's property.
11:06:52 >>> It's over 300 feet.
11:06:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Any other questions from council
11:06:57 We need to close the public hearing.
11:06:59 >> So moved.
11:06:59 >> Second.
11:06:59 (Motion carried).
11:07:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I am really familiar with this
11:07:06 It is a tough street.
11:07:07 I'm glad I have a small car going down it because it
11:07:10 is beautiful.
11:07:10 It's one of the most canopied streets we have, large
11:07:15 trees, densely packed, difficult for people to
11:07:18 maneuver in their vehicles.
11:07:19 Mr. Gardner and Mr. Schiff are two of my favorite
11:07:23 attorneys in town.
11:07:24 You guys are great.
11:07:25 But I must disagree.
11:07:26 I feel the public is best served by not vacating this
11:07:30 So therefore I will move to not support this vacation.
11:07:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion dies for lack of a second.
11:07:38 Is there another motion?
11:07:40 Mr. Dingfelder?
11:07:44 >>MARY MULHERN: I wanted to make a comment before.
11:07:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You can second for purposes of
11:07:58 discussion if that's what you want to do.
11:07:59 >>MARY MULHERN: Can I do that?
11:08:00 I second her motion for purposes of discussion.
11:08:02 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
11:08:06 I think that it's -- we see a list of neighbors who
11:08:12 are used to using this public and are not happy with
11:08:15 this idea.
11:08:16 And I don't feel out of evidence that little space is
11:08:21 actually being abused.
11:08:22 It was just being used for a purpose, maybe that
11:08:25 wasn't a planned purpose, but for all of those
11:08:28 neighbors, they have been able to maneuver and
11:08:32 And I think our transportation person gave us some
11:08:35 good solutions.
11:08:37 He could have a five-minute parking sign up there,
11:08:39 something that would be less drastic than altering
11:08:42 public road and taking it away from the neighbors who
11:08:46 clearly would like to keep it.
11:08:50 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
11:08:51 Question, Mr. Dingfelder?
11:08:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I can't support the motion.
11:08:55 There was a very telling picture, a couple pictures
11:08:59 back, that showed the lot.
11:09:03 I couldn't -- you built the house or you are going to
11:09:07 build the house?
11:09:09 Going to build it? Okay.
11:09:10 It showed the lot.
11:09:12 Sort of showed the open bay.
11:09:14 And it showed the service trucks, landscaping trucks,
11:09:17 parked in front of the house, right in front of the
11:09:19 house like that.
11:09:20 And I'm thinking to myself, I'm very sympathetic with
11:09:23 this street and this parking issue.
11:09:26 It's nice that they have this little overflow area
11:09:28 down there.
11:09:29 But at the same time, the most telling statement, I
11:09:32 think Mr. Schiff said, was how would you feel if this
11:09:35 was happening in front of your house?
11:09:39 And in a very unorganized fashion.
11:09:43 And I'll tell you what, to have that five-minute
11:09:45 parking thing, you try to call the police, the police
11:09:48 have a lot of other things to do.
11:09:50 And you can ask all of our neighbors that.
11:09:54 So I don't know.
11:09:56 Yes, it's very telling, you know, there's ten families
11:09:59 along here that like the benefit of that little
11:10:04 overflow parking there.
11:10:05 But at the same time, I don't know that we should
11:10:07 burden this property owner with that in front of his
11:10:13 new house there.
11:10:15 I'm very torn on this one.
11:10:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The fact is, this is a beautiful
11:10:21 part of the city and the petitioner has over 300 feet.
11:10:27 Over 300 feet, you can scarcely see to the end of it.
11:10:31 I think the beautiful trees that are on the
11:10:33 petitioner's property, which will remain there
11:10:35 regardless of what we do, provide visual sheltering.
11:10:38 And a lot of depth of 350 feet provides an adequate
11:10:44 front yard for children to play safely.
11:10:46 That's why I'm supporting this motion.
11:10:47 And based on Mr. Thornton's testimony about the
11:10:50 utility of this.
11:10:51 Thank you.
11:10:52 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion for denial.
11:10:53 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
11:10:56 Opposed, Nay.
11:11:02 >>THE CLERK: (off microphone).
11:11:03 >>GWEN MILLER: We need another motion.
11:11:05 Who is going to make a motion for approval?
11:11:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move approval.
11:11:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Do we have a second?
11:11:13 >> Do we have an ordinance?
11:11:17 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Was there a second?
11:11:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes, we had a second.
11:11:21 >>> Legal department.
11:11:21 I do have an ordinance prepared.
11:11:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Would you hand it to us, please?
11:11:26 Mr. Caetano, would you read that, please?
11:11:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Who was the maker of the motion?
11:11:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Scott.
11:11:39 >> Second.
11:11:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Just to be clear.
11:11:43 >>> An ordinance vacating, closing, discontinuing,
11:11:45 abandoning a certain right-of-way, all that portion of
11:11:49 Gordon Avenue lying south of shell point road, and
11:11:52 lying north and east of Mistic Point way, in
11:11:58 recorrected map of Romany tan, a subdivision in the
11:12:02 City of Tampa, Hillsborough County, Florida, the same
11:12:05 being more fully described in section 2 hereof
11:12:09 reserving certain easements and conditions, providing
11:12:11 an effective date.
11:12:12 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
11:12:16 Need a second.
11:12:22 >> Second.
11:12:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe council member Scott made
11:12:25 the motion.
11:12:25 It was seconded by Mr. Caetano.
11:12:28 But Mr. Caetano read the ordinance for purposes of
11:12:31 Florida statutes.
11:12:32 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
11:12:33 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
11:12:35 Opposed, Nay.
11:12:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Nay.
11:12:40 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to open number --
11:12:44 >> So moved.
11:12:45 >> Second.
11:12:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to open number 42.
11:12:49 (Motion carried).
11:12:49 >>BARBARA LYNCH: Land Development Coordination.
11:12:58 And I have been sworn.
11:13:02 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
11:13:03 For purposes of the record I want to clarify
11:13:05 Traditionally with your vacation, you have come forth
11:13:10 for the public hearing and I think continued for first
11:13:12 reading sometimes now.
11:13:13 But what happened in this case is you did have the
11:13:15 public hearing.
11:13:16 At then of the public hearing you did review so I want
11:13:19 to make sure the record is clear this was a public
11:13:22 hearing as well as first reading of the ordinance.
11:13:24 And I think the same applies to the next public
11:13:27 hearing that you have and I am going to recommend we
11:13:29 change that so that we hold the public hearing and
11:13:32 first reading on the ordinance.
11:13:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Point of order.
11:13:37 This is related to reverend Scott.
11:13:40 We have an 11:00 workshop that's scheduled on the next
11:13:44 page, page 11, item 44.
11:13:49 Reverend Scott indicates perhaps we should be abiding
11:13:52 by our time designations, which we have traditionally
11:13:58 not done the last four years but it's an interesting
11:14:01 It says 11:00.
11:14:02 Maybe we should jump into it at 11:00 and forestall
11:14:07 the other ones.
11:14:09 I don't know.
11:14:09 Of course these said 10:00.
11:14:12 It's now 11.
11:14:16 I think it's up for a quick discussion.
11:14:18 Do we want to jump to 11?
11:14:20 Or do we want to finish up --
11:14:23 >>GWEN MILLER: We had these A at ten.
11:14:25 We had people waiting since nine or ten.
11:14:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's fair enough.
11:14:32 I wanted to point it out.
11:14:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think these public hearings are
11:14:36 noticed for 10:00.
11:14:39 They take precedence if I'm not mistaken.
11:14:43 >>BARBARA LYNCH: Land development coordination.
11:14:46 I have been sworn.
11:14:47 I have a drawing on the Elmo.
11:14:48 This vacating is an alley located in east Tampa area.
11:14:55 It's outlined in yellow on this drawing and the
11:14:58 ownership is in red.
11:15:00 This alley is located between Broadway and 19th
11:15:05 avenues, and then between 68th street over here.
11:15:13 I do have a graphic that shows it.
11:15:17 This is 68th.
11:15:18 This is Broadway.
11:15:20 The property is this.
11:15:25 To be vacated.
11:15:27 I have photos of the alleyway.
11:15:30 This is the alleyway, east of 68th street.
11:15:34 There's a TECO pole here.
11:15:42 This is the alley looking west from the dead-end to
11:15:45 68th street.
11:15:46 This is a shot of the petitioner's property at the
11:15:50 corner of Broadway and 68th.
11:15:51 And then this is the petitioner's property north of
11:15:54 the alley.
11:15:57 Staff has no objection to this vacating request as
11:15:59 long as the utility easement is reserved for TECO.
11:16:02 >>GWEN MILLER: Questions by council members?
11:16:10 >>> My name is Lawrence Baylen, here as authorized
11:16:17 representative, my address is Adriatic Avenue in
11:16:22 I have been sworn.
11:16:23 And I can't imagine that there's any controversy over
11:16:28 this one, unlike the last one.
11:16:35 There never has been to my knowledge any actual alley
11:16:38 It just appears on the plat.
11:16:39 And it's an impediment to development of the property
11:16:42 around it.
11:16:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
11:16:45 wants to speak on item 42?
11:16:47 >> Move to close.
11:16:48 >> Second.
11:16:48 (Motion carried).
11:16:49 >>> I prepared an ordinance.
11:16:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you have a new one?
11:17:02 A substitute.
11:17:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I move this ordinance vacating closing
11:17:24 discontinuing abandoning certain right-of-way, all
11:17:28 that alleyway lying north of Broadway Avenue south,
11:17:31 from 19th area east of 68th Avenue and west of
11:17:36 dead-end, in HE close the public hearing EKES
11:17:40 subdivision, a subdivision in the City of Tampa,
11:17:41 Hillsborough County Florida the same being more fully
11:17:44 described in section 1 providing an effective date.
11:17:51 >> Second.
11:17:52 (Motion carried).
11:17:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 43.
11:18:03 >>> Phil Shultz, Land Development Coordination.
11:18:06 Item 43.
11:18:09 Special use permit, V 06-60.
11:18:12 In district 5, Tampa downtown partnership.
11:18:15 Address is 1201 North Florida Avenue and 1280 north
11:18:20 Madison heights LTD is petitioner.
11:18:25 This is a continuance from your February 8th
11:18:27 public hearing.
11:18:30 VRC has reviewed and there are no objections to. This
11:18:33 however we are reserving some review comments.
11:18:36 And I will get into that later.
11:18:38 The petitioner is requesting two waivers under section
11:18:42 27-442-A, off-street parking requirements to allow one
11:18:47 space per unit, with a maximum number of parking
11:18:49 spaces waived being 160 spaces.
11:18:53 Also waiver number 2, section 27-442-B, the in lieu
11:18:59 fee payment.
11:19:01 Waivers of said fees for the sole purpose of
11:19:03 developing an affordable senior citizen housing
11:19:06 project in the central business district.
11:19:07 The petitioner is requesting a special use for 1201
11:19:11 North Florida Avenue and 1280 north Marion street to
11:19:14 reduce the required two parking spaces per unit to one
11:19:18 parking space per unit, for 160 unit senior citizen
11:19:22 residential development.
11:19:23 Further, the petitioner is requesting a waiver of fee
11:19:25 in lieu to maintain the project affordability. The
11:19:31 developer in note 2, if you will look at the site
11:19:33 plan, has agreed that these variances would only apply
11:19:35 to a senior citizen development on this site.
11:19:38 In addition, in the event after the development, the
11:19:41 project is converted to a use other than affordable
11:19:44 senior citizen housing such as a market rate
11:19:47 condominium, or apartment complex, the developer shall
11:19:50 then pay the then applicable in lieu fee associated
11:19:52 with the number of parking spaces required for which
11:19:56 said in lieu fee was waived.
11:19:58 Current currently the in lieu fee for the central
11:20:01 business district is 4500 dollars per parking space,
11:20:05 making the estimated waiver of $720,000.
11:20:11 The subject property is located immediately across
11:20:13 from the Marion transit facility and as indicated
11:20:18 several VRC including zoning administrator reserved
11:20:23 their comments in the central business district when
11:20:26 construction drawings are submitted.
11:20:28 Elmo, please.
11:20:33 To orient you a little bit on this site it's currently
11:20:36 a ground level parking facility.
11:20:38 This is Marion street.
11:20:40 And here is the transit authority facility here.
11:20:44 This is 14th street.
11:20:46 This is north Florida.
11:20:47 And this is Laurel street.
11:20:51 As you can see by the zoning map, this is in the CBD1
11:20:59 zoning district.
11:21:01 Here is the subject property.
11:21:03 In the rear you can see the transit facility.
11:21:09 And this is to the south.
11:21:11 This is 14th street.
11:21:15 This is looking across Florida Avenue to government
11:21:18 building across the way.
11:21:22 This is looking down Laurel street, very narrow
11:21:29 I'm doing this primarily for the new members.
11:21:31 The previous members have seen all these.
11:21:36 Here you will see a view looking down Florida.
11:21:41 This is Marion street.
11:21:42 Again, here is the transit facility, directly across
11:21:45 from the subject property over here.
11:21:48 You see that.
11:21:50 This is looking north.
11:21:51 You can see 275 in the rear.
11:21:56 You have seen this one.
11:21:58 This is looking north on Florida Avenue.
11:21:59 Again you can see 275 in the northern portion of this
11:22:05 If there are any questions, I'll be available for
11:22:10 Thank you.
11:22:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Questions by council members?
11:22:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Procedural question for Mr. Shelby.
11:22:32 Procedurally, why is it back in front of us?
11:22:35 Did we have a stalled vote?
11:22:40 >>> I could explain that if you like.
11:22:44 Yes, council was concerned that you didn't have a
11:22:50 typical site plan to review on this case, and you
11:22:53 asked the petitioner to come back and embellish a
11:22:57 little more on what they are planning on doing on the
11:22:59 site as far as how it's going to look, how it's going
11:23:01 to be placed on the property, and as I mentioned in my
11:23:03 report, a majority of the DRC staff had reserved their
11:23:08 right to take up their review and comment during
11:23:12 Wilson Stair's process when it comes in for the CBD
11:23:19 But you wanted to see it prior to that.
11:23:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That was council's motion.
11:23:26 >>> That was just your request, yes.
11:23:28 >>DAVID SMITH: 401 East Jackson Street, 33602, plan we
11:23:32 are the law firm of Stearns and Miller.
11:23:35 Just to clarify a little more.
11:23:36 We had a four-member council the night it was
11:23:39 originally heard.
11:23:40 It was tied 2-2.
11:23:41 And then when we came back, we had a full board.
11:23:45 However, I believe you did not have an opportunity,
11:23:49 you said, to review the record.
11:23:52 The procedure is to review the film, the transcript of
11:23:56 the record.
11:23:56 So we decided to continue it to a full new commission,
11:23:59 and then bring it up at this time.
11:24:01 So that's why we are here now.
11:24:04 I think staff has done a real good job orienting the
11:24:07 council to where the property is.
11:24:10 And what I would like to emphasize is that this is
11:24:12 unusual from any other special use that any other
11:24:16 council members may review before because it not a
11:24:18 special use review.
11:24:19 The procedure for waiver of parking requirements in
11:24:22 the central business district, that you will follow
11:24:25 the procedure for consideration of the waiver as you
11:24:29 do a special use petition, which means you file an
11:24:31 application, you come to council, you provide
11:24:33 testimony here and you do all the public notices.
11:24:36 But the sole issue that we are reviewing is whether or
11:24:39 not for senior housing, less parking is necessary to
11:24:43 support senior housing.
11:24:45 Then the code -- than the current code requirement.
11:24:48 A little history.
11:24:49 When the plaintiff bought the property originally they
11:24:52 bought it for housing finance authority application
11:24:53 for senior housing.
11:24:55 At that time, the parking requirement was one per
11:24:59 They did not get funded that cycle.
11:25:02 Subsequent to that, code changed, went to two parking
11:25:05 spaces per unit.
11:25:06 And they are still looking and have filed for housing
11:25:11 finance -- excuse me, housing finance agency funding
11:25:14 for senior housing.
11:25:16 During that process, it does several things.
11:25:19 One, if you are funded by the state, you have certain
11:25:23 instruments you enter into that restrict the use of
11:25:25 the property for senior housing, and 60% medium income
11:25:30 is the threshold.
11:25:31 So we are talking about really an affordable targeted
11:25:34 As you can tell, the fee in lieu in and of itself is a
11:25:38 significant amount of money, 700-plus thousand.
11:25:41 If we actually had to build the parking associated
11:25:43 with those units, we probably would be talking about
11:25:46 twice as much or more in a real cost, because in a
11:25:49 structured parking, it's about $17,000 a space, if you
11:25:53 can get away with the cheapest way to do it.
11:25:56 So what I provided you is a handout that describes
11:26:01 precedent, not only in other parts of the stay but
11:26:04 also in Hillsborough County that recognizes that
11:26:06 senior housing requires less parking.
11:26:11 Evidence, Hillsborough County really treats them more
11:26:14 like adult living facilities because they provided one
11:26:19 for resident, then they provided for service vehicle.
11:26:22 Other jurisdictions have half a space per unit.
11:26:26 Some have .33 spaces per unit.
11:26:28 And we think this is particularly well located site
11:26:31 for transit opportunities, because it's right across
11:26:35 from the transit facility, and we all know that
11:26:38 seniors are more likely to use transit probably than
11:26:41 any other population, if it's readily available to
11:26:44 So for all those reasons, that's what the request to
11:26:48 the petition is.
11:26:49 When you see the site plan, we have only provided one
11:26:52 because staff indicated that council is used to seeing
11:26:56 the site plan, and it has no detail on it other than
11:26:59 all the commitments that we made to the fact that,
11:27:01 hey, if this ever becomes something else, or it's not
11:27:04 developed, originally for a senior project, that we
11:27:08 will meat all the code requirements that are in place.
11:27:10 Not only that, during the review process, the central
11:27:15 business district already allows multifamily housing.
11:27:19 Allows to build senior housing.
11:27:21 It's just the number of parking spaces.
11:27:23 During that process under central business park rules
11:27:26 we would go through the urban design review process at
11:27:28 the same time we go to construction plan.
11:27:30 So all the things that normally happen for urban
11:27:33 design control, what it looks like, how it's complied
11:27:36 with the central business district rules, will be done
11:27:39 by Wilson Stair and his staff, during that process.
11:27:42 So we don't have it actually designed for you today.
11:27:46 However in, response to council's request, when
11:27:52 councilman Saul-Sena wanted to see, what's it going to
11:27:55 look like?
11:27:55 And while we respectfully say that really shouldn't be
11:27:59 the basis for determining whether or not there should
11:28:01 be less parking associated, we have agreed to provide
11:28:05 a sketch and a mark-up for that which we'll put up on
11:28:09 the easel right now.
11:28:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: good.
11:28:24 Do you have a printout?
11:28:25 >> Actually the client was coloring that while he was
11:28:28 driving here from Lake Mary.
11:28:30 So I apologize.
11:28:33 We do not have handouts.
11:28:35 But what we have is about eight-story mid rise
11:28:38 structure that has parking included in the structure,
11:28:43 and its orientations -- and I'll get in front of it so
11:28:48 I can actually see it.
11:28:53 Actually the architect might be able to help you.
11:28:55 But we have the Madison heights North Florida Avenue
11:29:01 We have the fortune street frontage.
11:29:04 We have the Marion.
11:29:06 And then this is again the larger, lower level fortune
11:29:13 If we have specific questions regarding the design
11:29:15 elements of it, the architect can actually answer
11:29:19 And I'm sure we are going to have some questions.
11:29:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My big concern is, I think you're
11:29:24 correct, we don't need to acquire additional parking
11:29:26 spaces for seniors because they'll be taking public
11:29:29 transit or walking.
11:29:30 My concern is about the walking.
11:29:32 Florida Avenue at this point is a one-way,
11:29:34 terrifyingly fast street.
11:29:37 People frequently exceed the speed limit and I don't
11:29:39 know what the width of the sidewalks are.
11:29:42 Giving the -- given the population for which you are
11:29:44 building, I would assume that you would provide
11:29:46 adequately wide sidewalks.
11:29:48 And I'm not able to read on the site plan you provided
11:29:50 us what the width of the sidewalks are.
11:29:52 So if you could go over that, that would be really
11:29:57 >>> I think in this particular area of Florida, there
11:30:00 is a fairly good size sidewalk in the frontage.
11:30:03 If I can open up the site plan, and give you a
11:30:06 dimensional on that.
11:30:10 I think what we would like to point out is that there
11:30:12 is another senior facility, but not the same type,
11:30:15 which is Methodist place, which is like two blocks
11:30:18 from us.
11:30:20 >>> About 30 years ago.
11:30:21 >> It was built like 1970s or thereabouts.
11:30:25 >> Yes.
11:30:26 >>> Also just to point out they have about 38 parking
11:30:28 spaces for 200 units.
11:30:33 Just going to the parking issue.
11:30:35 Relative to the sidewalks here.
11:30:44 >> Did you say four feet?
11:30:49 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
11:30:50 I understand from Mr. Shelton that the requirements
11:30:54 will be 10-foot sidewalks.
11:30:58 >> 10-foot?
11:30:59 10-foot is great.
11:31:00 I was looking at this and eyeballing it and it looked
11:31:03 like about five feet which is absolutely inadequate.
11:31:06 So what I would need on the record is a commitment
11:31:08 that you will provide 10-foot sidewalks around the
11:31:11 perimeter of this facility, and possibly shade in the
11:31:15 form of either trade trees or awnings or something so
11:31:19 these poor senior citizens won't keel over when they
11:31:23 step outside.
11:31:26 >>> Brad St. Lauren, Lake Mary, Florida, 32746 and I
11:31:31 have been sworn.
11:31:32 Since the code is ten feet, then ten feet is what we
11:31:35 will provide.
11:31:36 With the -- I would say that on the north side,
11:31:41 there's a surface parking lot, and I think the
11:31:43 assumption is that there's going to be eventually a
11:31:46 building built there.
11:31:49 Only on the street plans, then that's what we'll do.
11:31:53 >> And shade.
11:31:54 >> And shade.
11:31:55 We do have showing trees.
11:31:57 As a matter of fact on Florida there is -- there are
11:32:01 tree grades, five of them, and in laying the site out,
11:32:07 even though there are curb cuts on Florida Avenue, for
11:32:10 the first time, the other submittals that we did last
11:32:13 year, we actually showed an entrance off of Florida.
11:32:15 We are going to do away with that.
11:32:18 All of the property access will be off of Marion
11:32:20 street, which is much slower speed, lower volume,
11:32:24 lower everything, and should be a better environment
11:32:29 for the seniors.
11:32:34 >>> And that's not a problem, that's a code
11:32:36 requirement of ten foot anyway.
11:32:37 So we are fine with that.
11:32:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Procedurally, Julia, a lot of times
11:32:47 on pretty much anything downtown, we have been getting
11:32:51 detailed sets of drawings, and all the exteriors and
11:32:58 the whole nine yards, which we don't have today.
11:33:01 And I guess I'm a little confuse procedurally.
11:33:05 How can we get those other ones? Is it because
11:33:11 there's something else and because it's a major zoning
11:33:13 Is that why?
11:33:15 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
11:33:16 Yes, traditionally seeing a rezoning so it's part of
11:33:22 the rezoning requirement that that is the requirement
11:33:24 that the detailed site plan, that the drawings, all of
11:33:31 This is a special needs request to allow the parking
11:33:33 requirement of two units -- I mean, two per unit for
11:33:41 the in lieu fee. That is the only issue you are
11:33:43 dealing with and that's why in this instance we would
11:33:45 not be requiring that.
11:33:46 I do want to make it clear that this doesn't take away
11:33:50 from under their existing zoning, of compliance with
11:33:54 the CBD requirements.
11:33:57 And I understand that wasn't there.
11:34:00 He has the obligation to review that, and that he has
11:34:04 the authority and does require streetscape.
11:34:09 On that issue, you may recall came up with this
11:34:11 originally came to you as to what is it you are
11:34:13 looking at, because it's a little odd, but it is very
11:34:17 It is limited only to whether or not you think it's
11:34:19 appropriate given the fact that this is for senior
11:34:22 housing, given the fact that they are going to be
11:34:24 obligated to do certain things Moreda to receive the
11:34:27 money from the state to become senior housing, and
11:34:30 that and the site plan, to say if you are not used to
11:34:36 senior housing you will have to comply with the
11:34:38 That's why your review in this instance is limited.
11:34:42 >>MARY MULHERN: My question, and you probably thought
11:34:44 about this, and addressed it.
11:34:46 But if it is indeed going to have assisted living and
11:34:50 medical staff -- just housing?
11:34:55 >>> It's just a housing.
11:34:57 It will have services in it but it's not going to be
11:34:59 assisted living and medical services.
11:35:02 >> So you are taking the services, the employee part
11:35:04 into account when you are reducing the number of
11:35:06 spots, parking spots.
11:35:08 >>> As far as the overall need.
11:35:10 >>MARY MULHERN: Thanks.
11:35:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
11:35:12 wants to speak on item 43?
11:35:16 Did you want to say something, sir?
11:35:21 >>> No.
11:35:22 Just on what was said, that this is the only parking
11:35:26 variance under this procedure that has ever been asked
11:35:29 for, because previously the parking requirement was
11:35:33 Since it went up to two, that's the only reason we are
11:35:37 requiring it.
11:35:37 For your inform -- information, I believe staff may be
11:35:41 coming back for going back to one in the very near
11:35:44 With this -- we are kind of caught in the middle of
11:35:47 the regs and we do have an application penning with
11:35:50 the state.
11:35:51 >> We need to close the public hearing.
11:35:52 >> So moved.
11:35:53 >> Second.
11:35:53 (Motion carried).
11:35:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Do we have an ordinance?
11:36:01 >> I will move it.
11:36:02 >> Second.
11:36:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I will move the approval of the
11:36:06 ordinance, ordinance approving a special use permit
11:36:10 S-2 approving a multifamily dwelling parking variance
11:36:15 in a CBD-1 zoning district in the general vicinity of
11:36:19 1201 North Florida Avenue and 1280 north Marion street
11:36:23 in the city of Tampa, Florida, and as more
11:36:25 particularly described in section 1 hereof, allowing
11:36:29 one space per unit with a maximum number of parking
11:36:32 space, 106, approving a waiver of a request, in lieu
11:36:37 fee for the sole purpose of developing an affordable
11:36:40 senior housing project in the central business
11:36:44 district, providing an effective date.
11:36:46 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
11:36:48 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
11:36:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I would say I am happy to support it.
11:36:53 It is a very good project, in particular affordable
11:36:55 housing for seniors.
11:36:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question for Julia Cole.
11:37:01 You said in response to Mr. Dingfelder's question that
11:37:04 because of the special use and not a PD, council
11:37:08 doesn't get involved with looking at elevations or
11:37:10 anything like that.
11:37:11 I know that the staff under Wilson Stair looks at 30,
11:37:16 60, 90 drawings.
11:37:17 My question is this.
11:37:18 I understand that we are not supposed to talk directly
11:37:20 to staff about anything.
11:37:22 Can we request that Mr. Stair present to us just for
11:37:26 our edification the drawings at 30, 60 and 90?
11:37:33 I'll just make a motion that just for our edification,
11:37:35 even though I understand that we can't actually impact
11:37:37 anything, if he would just share with us the drawings
11:37:40 at 30, 60, 90, so that we are aware of what's being
11:37:45 >>JULIA COLE: Let me just ask a clarification.
11:37:47 Is it your intent to have that placed on your agenda
11:37:50 and for him to come forward as part of your agenda to
11:37:52 do that?
11:37:52 Or just show that to you individually?
11:37:57 I don't think it would be appropriate to have that
11:37:58 come for you on your agenda as an item, because it's
11:38:03 just something you can't take any action on.
11:38:05 I don't think there's anything inappropriate to making
11:38:07 that request of the administration, whoever
11:38:11 appropriate in the administration is to make that
11:38:12 available to you at the time that they come in for the
11:38:14 permitting and have direct conversations with Mr. --
11:38:20 >> I'm just curious.
11:38:22 I would like to see it when it comes in.
11:38:23 >>JULIA COLE: I mean, I don't know that you need a
11:38:26 motion to that effect.
11:38:27 I can make the administration aware of that.
11:38:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That would be great.
11:38:31 Thank you.
11:38:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Now we are ready for our workshop.
11:38:33 Need to open the workshop.
11:38:35 >> So moved.
11:38:35 >> Second.
11:38:35 (Motion carried).
11:38:41 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
11:38:42 I'm here for the wet zoning workshop along with
11:38:45 Catherine Coyle.
11:38:46 For our new City Council members, very, very briefly,
11:38:48 a wet zoning is basically a permit to allow the sale
11:38:52 of alcoholic beverage at a specific location.
11:38:55 And the City of Tampa that process is called wet
11:38:58 I will tell you that the way the City of Tampa does
11:39:00 it, it's not unique and singular across the state.
11:39:05 The process as you have it set up now requires that
11:39:08 all requests for wet zonings coming to City Council
11:39:10 for two public hearings, regardless of whether or not
11:39:13 the applicant is entitled to have the wet zoning as a
11:39:17 matter of law.
11:39:19 Basically, if the underlying zoning is appropriate, it
11:39:23 must be approved by City Council, regardless of any
11:39:27 other issues that City Council might have, unless it's
11:39:29 within a thousand feet of community uses, residential
11:39:32 areas, or other alcoholic beverages establishments.
11:39:37 Even though in the City of Tampa when call this a wet
11:39:40 zoning process with waivers, what our process is set
11:39:45 up as a special exception.
11:39:46 A special exception is another name for special use.
11:39:49 What we are recommending to you is that you change
11:39:51 your wet zoning process to incorporate it into the
11:39:54 process you already have for special uses.
11:39:58 The change needs to happen.
11:40:00 There is a lot of different ways that you can approach
11:40:02 the change.
11:40:07 I think it's important for City Council to know once
11:40:10 you change it you are going to have a lot of tools you
11:40:12 don't know V now that are very important.
11:40:14 You are going to have tools to allow to you evaluate
11:40:16 the wet zoning in greater -- with greater
11:40:21 considerations than you already do, and to allow to
11:40:23 you place conditions on the wet zoning that you
11:40:26 currently are prohibited by your current ordinances.
11:40:31 >> Reverend Scott has a quick question.
11:40:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes, for council members.
11:40:37 I guess this is already scheduled, and how the county
11:40:42 functions, and I was hoping during our information to
11:40:46 add an item that we have legal come back,
11:40:52 Mr. Chairman, in a workshop setting, to zoning hearing
11:40:56 master process on zoning issues, okay?
11:40:58 And part of that will be the wet zoning, which in the
11:41:02 county, land use hearing officer, really that doesn't
11:41:08 come to council.
11:41:10 It goes to a hearing officer.
11:41:13 >>> That's correct.
11:41:14 >> And they deal with that.
11:41:15 That's the kind of thing, council, I want to talk
11:41:17 about in terms of process.
11:41:19 How we function, how we operate.
11:41:23 We have the community, we have citizens, this council,
11:41:26 in terms of time management and effectiveness.
11:41:28 So what I would suggest and recommend today, and our
11:41:37 counsel lead the process to get this done.
11:41:39 What I would like to have happen is, Mr. Chairman, do
11:41:44 we have a quorum?
11:41:46 >> Not much of one.
11:41:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That in May, and maybe legal staff,
11:41:53 that we take a look at coming back to us.
11:41:58 Julia, a good day to talk about the zoning hearing
11:42:00 master process that the county uses now and a
11:42:03 presentation to this council.
11:42:05 But we have time.
11:42:06 I don't want to be rushed.
11:42:07 It can't be rushed.
11:42:08 A time when we have time where you can make a full
11:42:11 presentation, and also by going over to be a part of
11:42:15 the process as well.
11:42:16 And explain to us, so we can understand clearly how
11:42:21 that functions, how it operates.
11:42:22 I would say even now you all do two public hearings.
11:42:25 And by law, by statute that's not even required.
11:42:29 And so what happens is you have citizens coming back
11:42:32 and forth, and they are hearing the process more, and
11:42:35 really, at 3:00 in the morning I want to tell you now
11:42:40 you are not alert, you forgot what you did, what you
11:42:43 said, you come at the next meeting, it's a totally
11:42:45 different meeting.
11:42:46 You know, you hear things all over again.
11:42:48 What I want to do is how to better serve this
11:42:51 community, better serve the citizens, you know, manage
11:42:55 our time better so that we can be more effective when
11:42:59 it comes to zoning issues.
11:43:01 And I raise the issue.
11:43:02 To me it's a fairness issue for the community, for the
11:43:05 citizens, for everybody across the board.
11:43:06 This is not an issue for developers.
11:43:08 That's not what I'm talking about.
11:43:10 And I think you understand that.
11:43:11 Along with that, you need to bring the issue up of
11:43:15 ex parte communication.
11:43:17 Where I come from, that is serious.
11:43:21 You know, that's a violation.
11:43:22 And so when somebody called the other day and said, he
11:43:25 want to talk to you.
11:43:26 I said, no, we can't talk about it.
11:43:28 Where I come from, I have been trained, that's not
11:43:34 healthy, you know, not good.
11:43:36 So stopped this.
11:43:38 I don't know what City Council can hear but ex parte
11:43:41 communication is supposed to be revealed on the
11:43:44 record, or you shouldn't have it at all.
11:43:47 So Julia, what I would like to have is a workshop, you
11:43:50 understand what my request is?
11:43:52 Can you handle that for us?
11:43:53 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
11:43:55 I think what I am hearing you say, the pleasure of
11:43:59 council, what I would recommend you schedule a
11:44:01 workshop at 1:30 on an off-zoning evening so we can
11:44:05 spend some time.
11:44:06 I would request personally that you pick a time in
11:44:09 May, going to be out for a week at the end of April.
11:44:12 I would actually like to be involved in that
11:44:14 And I will be happy to contact Mr. Gormley at the
11:44:18 county's attorney's office as well as bring back to
11:44:20 you legal options.
11:44:24 But I can tell you that other jurisdictions, in going
11:44:27 through the PD process, I spent a lot of time how
11:44:31 other jurisdictions handle their zoning process.
11:44:34 I would like to bring back whatever initial
11:44:35 jurisdictions, but I think it would be helpful to hear
11:44:38 from Mr. Gormley to hear how the county handles it and
11:44:42 I would also say we have some in-house, our own Mr.
11:44:47 Sal Territo who was a hearing officer in Lee County.
11:44:49 I would ask that he attend that and give his thoughts
11:44:52 on it.
11:44:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Why don't we just look to you and
11:44:55 legal to put together that, whatever you want to
11:44:58 bring, whatever information we need that will be
11:45:00 helpful, so the council will give a full grasp of how
11:45:04 the hearing officer process functions and works.
11:45:07 And part of that is going to be, I think, a wet zoning
11:45:10 issue as well, okay?
11:45:12 So you understand what I'm trying to convey what we do
11:45:16 >> And it might be appropriate for me philosophy to
11:45:18 find the best day and bring it back?
11:45:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ms. Saul-Sena?
11:45:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Reverend Scott, at the back of our
11:45:28 agenda, we have dates and the recommendation which I
11:45:31 thought was a good one.
11:45:32 We bring it back on a day when we don't have an
11:45:34 evening meeting.
11:45:35 So on May 3rd, for example, we do have an evening
11:45:39 meeting, and we don't --
11:45:41 >> On May 3rd we do?
11:45:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Maybe there's a page missing in
11:45:50 >> I'm sorry, council members.
11:45:51 Remove the staple and I think you will see it under
11:45:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Oh, thank you.
11:45:57 On the 3rd, would that be convenient for you?
11:46:02 >>JULIA COLE: If I could I would like to make a
11:46:04 request because I am going to be out for a week.
11:46:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: On the 17th it says we have a
11:46:08 workshop at 1:30 on the city's affordable housing
11:46:12 program but don't have an evening meeting that night.
11:46:14 So we could do it at like 2:00 or do it on the
11:46:16 31st at 1:30.
11:46:19 >>> I would like it on the 31st because you just
11:46:21 moved your ordinance to the 17th.
11:46:23 That may be a busy day for you.
11:46:24 So maybe the 31st.
11:46:28 >>> That's fine.
11:46:28 >>MARY MULHERN: I want to say they are great ideas.
11:46:34 I wonder if we want to talk about all of that at one
11:46:37 I think the zoning hearing master and the wet zoning
11:46:40 would be a good thing.
11:46:41 But the question of ex parte communication and
11:46:45 changing that, that might be -- we might need more
11:46:49 time to consider that.
11:46:53 To iron that out.
11:46:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: anybody else?
11:46:56 If I could speak to the ex parte communication because
11:46:58 I know where you are coming from.
11:47:00 We don't -- really don't do anything different here.
11:47:06 Traditionally we abide by it.
11:47:08 You guys need to be briefed on it to make sure that
11:47:11 you are well aware of what the requirements or the
11:47:15 preclusions of ex parte communication are in terms of
11:47:17 rezoning and wet zoning, and that sort of thing.
11:47:20 So just make sure you are all up to speed.
11:47:22 But reverend, I can assure you, we take that just as
11:47:25 seriously here and we always have, as they do at the
11:47:28 So I don't think we should worry too much about that
11:47:32 That's not really a substantive issue.
11:47:34 The substantive issue, in regard to going to a DHM
11:47:40 zoning hearing master process, I think that clearly
11:47:42 you have a second.
11:47:43 We'll take a vote on that in a second.
11:47:45 The only thing I would say is, we have held that
11:47:50 discussion a couple years ago.
11:47:51 I don't even know if it got very formalized.
11:47:53 But I do recall that the neighborhood associations had
11:47:57 very, very strong feelings about changing the process.
11:48:01 They have a comfort level with the process as it
11:48:04 stands right now.
11:48:06 And especially T.H.A.N. being the umbrella of the
11:48:08 neighborhood association.
11:48:09 So I think -- I just want to say, we need to make sure
11:48:12 that they are plugged in, that they are participating.
11:48:15 If we are going to have a workshop it needs to be a
11:48:17 workshop where the public is invited to participate in
11:48:22 that process.
11:48:23 Because sometimes we have workshops where we sort of
11:48:26 just workshop it ourselves but don't include the
11:48:29 So I am just throwing out that little warning.
11:48:32 And Madam Chair, there's a motion and a second on the
11:48:35 floor, but go ahead.
11:48:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The only thing I will say, Madam Chair
11:48:42 in, terms of the workshop, I think the workshop is
11:48:47 public and everybody is invited.
11:48:49 That's number one.
11:48:50 Number two is, sometimes change is hard for people but
11:48:53 I'm explaining something that will benefit the
11:48:55 community as a whole.
11:48:56 They may not understand that process.
11:48:58 I will tell you that a complete different day and gave
11:49:05 the citizens an opportunity to participate.
11:49:07 They were not excluded from that.
11:49:08 In fact, they would participate at a zoning hearing
11:49:11 master level.
11:49:12 And then when it came before the county commission
11:49:15 again, has opportunity for them to speak.
11:49:18 But what you have to understand with the zoning
11:49:20 hearing master process, it allows another part to be
11:49:24 involved, to go through and a lot of things, keeps the
11:49:31 community from having to be here till 3:00 or 4:00 in
11:49:34 the mornings, you know.
11:49:36 You understand what I'm saying.
11:49:38 >>GWEN MILLER: We have talked about a hearing master,
11:49:40 where we dropped the ball on it.
11:49:43 Ms. Cole?
11:49:48 >>JULIA COLE: What I will say on that issue, I want to
11:49:51 make sure that all parties of interest have notice of
11:49:56 T.H.A.N., builders association.
11:49:58 At least have the conversation, and that the legal
11:50:00 department is going to present to you the variety of
11:50:03 different options, and then hear from you, and see if
11:50:06 there are any recommendations that can come out of
11:50:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
11:50:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion.
11:50:13 Mr. Shelby? council, just for clarification with
11:50:16 regard to the ex parte communication.
11:50:18 There is a distinction between what the City Council
11:50:20 does versus the county commission, in that Florida
11:50:23 statutes under chapter 286 allowed local government to
11:50:29 adopt a resolution to somewhat lessen the presumption
11:50:32 of prejudice.
11:50:33 The county did not do that.
11:50:36 In 1995, by resolution 95-00, 9-8-2, the City Council
11:50:42 did implement the provisions that were provided by the
11:50:45 state legislature.
11:50:47 There is some question as to whether or not that was
11:50:49 effective or not.
11:50:50 But that is why I make the statement before, as I did
11:50:54 today, of the need to disclose it prior to the vote,
11:50:57 whereas the county has the rule of a blanket
11:51:02 presumption which bars ex parte communication.
11:51:04 So if council wanted to change its policy, it would in
11:51:07 effect require a repeal or superseding that particular
11:51:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thanks for that clarification.
11:51:16 Madam Chair, I'll clarify, the motion by Mr. Scott,
11:51:22 seconded by Mrs. Saul-Sena, was to schedule a
11:51:24 discussion for May 31st at 1:30 as a workshop.
11:51:28 And just for clarification, Mr. Shelby.
11:51:31 Sometimes reverend Scott, our workshops are just
11:51:34 closed workshops and we don't ask for the public to
11:51:36 I think we need to clarify that what the motion would
11:51:39 be, do you want the public to participate?
11:51:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I think that we need enough time
11:51:44 to allow legal to make a presentation before the
11:51:47 public, you know, making comments.
11:51:54 But certainly give legal enough time to make a full
11:51:57 presentation to this council.
11:52:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: For the benefit of new members of
11:52:04 Workshops under your rules are defined as a meeting of
11:52:07 City Council held for the purpose of council being
11:52:10 informed on and discussing matters of special concern
11:52:12 that require time in excess of that which is usually
11:52:16 afforded to regular staff reports.
11:52:18 Workshops are held in such day and time as council may
11:52:20 be designated by majority vote of City Council, and in
11:52:24 this case, the motion is to have workshops, may also
11:52:28 be scheduled within the agenda of a regular meeting.
11:52:31 The rule also states that any member of City Council
11:52:34 may ask questions of any persons present during the
11:52:36 workshop, but particularly I bring to your attention
11:52:42 B-4 which says the public may be heard on the matter
11:52:44 which is the subject of the workshop if upon motion
11:52:49 and vote of council the chair opens the floor for
11:52:51 public comment during the workshop.
11:52:53 It is within the discretion of council whether it
11:52:55 chooses to do so or not.
11:52:57 With this proviso, no official action on the matter
11:53:00 which is the subject of the workshop shall be taken
11:53:02 during or after a workshop unless the public is
11:53:05 afforded the opportunity to comment prior to action.
11:53:09 However, directions to staff resulting from the
11:53:11 workshop do not require public comment.
11:53:14 So after you get the information and you direct staff
11:53:17 to come back, you don't -- you can choose not to open
11:53:19 the floor if you wish.
11:53:21 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion on the floor and a
11:53:23 All in favor say Aye.
11:53:24 Opposed, Nay.
11:53:27 That's it.
11:53:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think the question then is
11:53:33 discussion on chapter 3 relevant?
11:53:35 And I think that was reverend Scott's point F.we are
11:53:39 going to go into VHM process why would we change
11:53:42 chapter 3 right now?
11:53:48 >>> We could have the remainder of this discussion.
11:53:53 The issues with your wet zonings need to be addressed
11:53:55 regardless whether or not you get a hearing officer.
11:53:58 And if you begin the process to a special use process,
11:54:01 then it makes it easier if you decide to have the
11:54:04 hearing officer.
11:54:05 It's going to need to be a special use regardless of
11:54:08 whether or not -- and I don't think it's going to take
11:54:11 much longer.
11:54:12 If you would rather roll it in that's fine.
11:54:19 >> What's your recommendation?
11:54:20 >>REBECCA KERT: My recommendation is we go ahead
11:54:22 I don't think it's going to take that long.
11:54:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The other thing I wish to bring to
11:54:26 council's attention is you are approaching the noon
11:54:29 Council rules state you do take a break unless by
11:54:32 unanimous vote you decide to waive and vote during
11:54:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: How about a waiver of a half hour?
11:54:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Can we do it within a half hour?
11:54:41 >>> I can be brief.
11:54:42 It's basically three questions that I have.
11:54:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Can you do it in less than ten minutes?
11:54:49 >>> That depends on the discussion.
11:54:50 >>GWEN MILLER: In ten minutes got to get out of here.
11:54:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's my motion.
11:54:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay, ten minutes.
11:54:59 (Motion carried).
11:55:00 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
11:55:01 What you have before you is the matrix that shows the
11:55:03 transition of the provisions of chapter 3, alcoholic
11:55:06 beverages, being morphed into chapter 27.
11:55:13 Chapter 27 is the zoning chapter of our code.
11:55:18 And as Ms. Kert already stated this change needs to
11:55:20 happen, based on the legal issues, the way that we
11:55:24 process wet zonings.
11:55:26 It being morphed and changed into a special use, what
11:55:30 we had to do is go through each provision in the
11:55:32 special use criteria, how we review those, what
11:55:35 council's tools are and that process.
11:55:37 And figure out what pieces of chapter 3 needed to move
11:55:41 and what could stay in chapter 3.
11:55:44 If you notice on the first page, page 1 of the matrix,
11:55:47 very top column, or row, the sections in chapter 3
11:55:52 that are going to be moved.
11:55:54 There's several sections.
11:55:56 And as you go through, you will see the sections in
11:55:59 chapter 27 which are being modified to accept the
11:56:03 provisions of chapter 3. The three piece that is I
11:56:06 really needed direction on, the three key things the
11:56:10 way we deal with alcoholic beverage zonings, versus
11:56:13 how we deal with special uses, currently under chapter
11:56:18 3 --
11:56:20 >> What page are you on now?
11:56:21 >> I'm actually just talking at this point.
11:56:24 But if you wanted to flip to a certain phage, would
11:56:26 you go to 27-603, which is on page 6, second to the
11:56:32 last page of the matrix.
11:56:33 This is where we deal with the drawing-up provision.
11:56:38 In chapter 3, it is section 390 and 3-100.
11:56:44 For those council members that were here within the
11:56:46 last couple of months, we did make a minor change in
11:56:49 chapter 3.
11:56:50 We used to just have a revocation process for
11:56:53 alcoholic beverages zonings.
11:56:55 We built in a suspension process where we can bring
11:56:58 things to you that have violated the code, and you
11:57:00 have the option to suspend alcoholic beverage sales
11:57:03 for 30, 60, 90 days and then eventually revoke if we
11:57:08 build a case for that.
11:57:10 Moving that into chapter 27 and the framework of a
11:57:14 special use, was a little trying.
11:57:17 What we need to figure out from you is direction on
11:57:19 those time frames.
11:57:20 Currently we have a 30-day posting period.
11:57:22 If we go out and we see that you haven't sold, we have
11:57:26 the ability to post you.
11:57:28 Through complaint or through visual inspection.
11:57:30 We post you for 30 days.
11:57:31 If you do not come in and show us that you have
11:57:33 resumed sales, you are effectively dry.
11:57:37 If you come in and give us the information that's
11:57:39 required in the code showing that you have made the
11:57:41 sale, then you are reopen.
11:57:44 If for some reason you come in prior to that 30-day --
11:57:49 30-day posting period and say I can't reopen because
11:57:52 of this reason, I'm renovating, I'll be on vacation,
11:57:55 some places are small businesses, I can't resume
11:57:58 You can get a 120-day extension of time, it's called a
11:58:02 discontinuance of sales which is kind of a misnomer.
11:58:05 But we can give you an additional 120 days of not
11:58:11 If for some reason prior to that 120 days you still
11:58:14 can't open because you are selling the property, you
11:58:16 are still in renovation, you can come before council
11:58:18 and do an extension of time for one year.
11:58:21 You see those petitions every once in a while.
11:58:24 When we look at a special use, any special use in the
11:58:28 city as far as 180 consecutive days of non-use.
11:58:31 So what we really need for guidance from you is how to
11:58:34 build in the wet zoning drawing into the special use
11:58:37 provisions, and what we have here proposed is we still
11:58:44 keep the 30 day posting period.
11:58:45 That's what the public is used to.
11:58:47 That's what our staff is used to.
11:58:48 It still keeps everyone alert of that 30-day period.
11:58:52 The administrative extension of time then would change
11:58:54 from 150 to -- I'm sorry, 120 days to 150 days.
11:58:59 The 30-plus 150 is the 180 that we give for special
11:59:03 uses. The one-year extension of time that we have now
11:59:06 would be eliminated.
11:59:07 If you go beyond 180 days for any special use you have
11:59:10 to reapply.
11:59:11 So that would be the same thing as alcoholic beverage
11:59:15 sales becoming a special use permit.
11:59:17 Once you trip that 180 days you are reapplying for a
11:59:20 special use and you are back before council.
11:59:25 That's the one question I have for you to think about.
11:59:27 If you wanted to talk about that, we certainly could.
11:59:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm completely comfortable with
11:59:34 that 27-603 in your proposed changes.
11:59:37 I think it's good.
11:59:38 We tightened it up a little bit.
11:59:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
11:59:42 >> I'll make a motion that part is okay so we can put
11:59:45 that to bed.
11:59:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
11:59:47 (Motion carried).
11:59:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: In reading this, Cathy, I did have
11:59:50 a question on 27-272 which I think is page --
11:59:53 >>> That was the next one I was going to go over.
11:59:56 >> Well, you go ahead and explain it.
11:59:58 I have an issue but the entertainment district.
12:00:05 >>> That is actually the third one.
12:00:07 And they are kind of coupled actually.
12:00:09 If you look at 27-272 page 3, and currently in chapter
12:00:18 3 if you are asking for alcoholic beverages, sales for
12:00:21 that kind of zoning, you're 1,000 feet from all uses.
12:00:25 Council can grant waivers, if it's incidental to the
12:00:29 principal use.
12:00:30 We don't want to define what incidental is.
12:00:32 If you are a restaurant, if you accept the R
12:00:34 classification, council can waive that.
12:00:36 There's other waiver provisions for entertainment
12:00:38 districts and for the Soho district.
12:00:41 And that's one thing we wanted to bring up to you.
12:00:43 Ms. Kert actually has done some research of other
12:00:47 municipalities and jurisdictions of what their
12:00:49 distance separation requirements are.
12:00:50 And I can tell you, we are double to triple what
12:00:53 everyone else does.
12:00:54 Our thousand feet is much hair than the county.
12:00:58 It's half of what we do.
12:01:00 And they are a much larger area.
12:01:02 We are a very urban area.
12:01:03 So within a thousand feet is -- that's a lot of
12:01:06 property within that radius.
12:01:08 And you offer trigger -- that's why we have so many
12:01:11 wet zoning provisions or applications.
12:01:15 The thought behind this is these alcoholic beverage
12:01:18 sales, special use permits, become special use 1's,
12:01:23 administrative review.
12:01:24 We can approve these if they meet the specific
12:01:28 If they do not, it requires a public hearing with City
12:01:32 They come before you and only you can grant those
12:01:34 waivers, the criteria.
12:01:36 So what we have proposed is the scaling back of the
12:01:39 distance separations.
12:01:42 As an incentive to someone with the R classification
12:01:47 for restaurant, you have no separation from any uses.
12:01:50 It's zero feet.
12:01:52 Keep in mind, too, the "R" classifications are
12:01:55 required to report to us semiannually.
12:01:57 Every six months they have to document to us that they
12:02:00 are selling 51% food.
12:02:03 If they don't, you can suspend and revoke through our
12:02:07 procedures those type of classifications, or they have
12:02:09 the ability to change the type -- the petitioner
12:02:13 change the classification.
12:02:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Have you presented this to
12:02:20 >>> As of yet, not.
12:02:21 We were coming to you to talk to you on direction of
12:02:23 what to do, whether or not you were okay with these
12:02:25 general ideas.
12:02:27 Then we were going to workshop with them on it.
12:02:30 >> It's my strong belief based oh on what I heard
12:02:32 through the years from the neighborhood they want this
12:02:34 not done administratively.
12:02:35 They want to have the opportunity to come down to
12:02:37 council and weigh in.
12:02:41 In many parts of the city, you have commercial uses
12:02:44 backing up to residential uses.
12:02:46 The residential uses, sometimes they have no problems,
12:02:50 sometimes they have many problems.
12:02:51 They don't want it to be an automatic administrative
12:02:54 It's my strong feeling that they want to be able to
12:02:56 come down to council and weigh in on it.
12:03:00 >> If you are setting the criteria appropriately on
12:03:02 the special use, if you leave everything at 1,000 feet
12:03:05 we are not going to be able to waive any special use
12:03:09 The majority of them will come to you.
12:03:11 >> That's what the public wants.
12:03:12 I'm just throwing that out there. We can workshop
12:03:14 this and you can bring it to T.H.A.N.
12:03:16 I'm just sharing raised voices.
12:03:20 >>> But the distance separations were something that
12:03:23 we wanted to talk about and get direction from you.
12:03:25 And Ms. Kert can certainly go over the comparisons
12:03:28 with the county of Sarasota, St. Pete, Pinellas
12:03:31 County, the ones that she's researched.
12:03:34 Finally, the entertainment district.
12:03:36 Currently the entertainment districts are Ybor City,
12:03:39 central business district, and the Channel District.
12:03:41 The question is, should Soho be one of the -- defined
12:03:45 as one of the entertainment districts and should the
12:03:47 distance separations within the entertainment
12:03:50 districts, should they be distance separations?
12:03:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: When I read this superficially, the
12:04:00 entertainment thing, and I was mainly thinking about
12:04:03 I didn't know you all were contemplating Soho.
12:04:08 If we focus on Ybor, one of the things that we have
12:04:11 been saying the last couple of years is we want to try
12:04:15 and transition Ybor from being the bar district to
12:04:19 being perhaps the restaurant district.
12:04:21 And we hired a consultant and paid him hundreds of
12:04:25 thousands of dollars for him to tell us the same
12:04:28 I think this suggestion is really a little bit
12:04:30 counterproductive to that, because it really
12:04:32 encourages more of what we already have, which is bar
12:04:38 next to bar next to bar next to bar.
12:04:40 At least right now when a bar comes to us, a new bar
12:04:43 comes to us in Ybor City, they have to -- they have to
12:04:47 ask us for the waiver, you know, for the waiver of the
12:04:51 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Actually, we didn't exempt them.
12:04:56 The way that we approached this, that was the question
12:05:00 for you, they technically have to follow the same
12:05:02 distance separation.
12:05:04 >> Exactly.
12:05:04 But what I thought I read maybe in the earlier
12:05:06 version, Cathy, was that it said that you would
12:05:09 eliminate the waiver district in the entertainment
12:05:12 Was that -- maybe they changed take that from the
12:05:15 earlier version which was April 9th.
12:05:19 >>> Are you looking at 27-602 on page 6?
12:05:23 >> 27-272.
12:05:25 Page 3.
12:05:31 Anyway, I don't have the details of the proposed code
12:05:34 language in front of me.
12:05:35 I don't New York City maybe you haven't drafted it
12:05:38 >>> Yes, it says council may consider waivers to
12:05:39 distance of alcohol sales is accessory, or --
12:05:43 >> Or --
12:05:46 >>> Only you could waive that.
12:05:47 I couldn't administratively waive that.
12:05:48 It would have to be coming to you to waive that.
12:05:50 And when you are considering those waivers, keep in
12:05:52 mind you're in the realm of the special use, so you
12:05:55 are considering the entire site plan.
12:05:57 >> So what you are proposing for the entertainment
12:06:00 area then, are you proposing a change in the
12:06:04 entertainment district?
12:06:06 >>> No, not really.
12:06:09 >> Well, as long as the 1,000 feet or whatever foot we
12:06:15 end up with stays in the entertainment district the
12:06:18 same way it is in other district, then I'm comfortable
12:06:20 with it.
12:06:21 We continue doing business as we have been doing.
12:06:25 >>REBECCA KERT: A clarification, right now you do have
12:06:27 different waiver requirements for your entertainment
12:06:30 An entertainment district -- the way the code is set
12:06:34 up right now is very confusing on a number of levels.
12:06:37 One of them is entertainment district.
12:06:38 And one person you speak of entertainment district and
12:06:42 you are talking about the Channel District, downtown,
12:06:44 and Ybor City.
12:06:46 They require additional security guards.
12:06:48 Another section when you are talking about waivers,
12:06:51 you include Soho.
12:06:52 And in that, generally under your code presently, you
12:06:55 do not allow any waivers within a thousand feet unless
12:06:59 alcohol sales are incidental. The only tame you allow
12:07:02 that consideration is within the district, the
12:07:05 entertainment district, plus Soho.
12:07:07 Right now you do treat them differently.
12:07:10 If City Council is interested in, you know, maybe
12:07:13 encouraging -- there's a lot of different tools that
12:07:16 we can provide to you.
12:07:17 For example, you might make in your entertainment
12:07:20 district, restaurants not needing waivers and
12:07:24 administrative approvals.
12:07:25 Therefore you are encouraging restaurants that report.
12:07:27 I mean, that would be an option, if you would like us
12:07:29 to explore some of those tools, if you would like us
12:07:31 to leave it at the 1,000 feet.
12:07:33 That would be something.
12:07:34 But if would you like to us continue to give us --
12:07:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Now that you have explained it
12:07:41 better, I think I understand better.
12:07:43 And if it's to create an incentive in those districts
12:07:47 for the R's, for the restaurant uses instead of the
12:07:50 bars, then I think that's something worthy of T.H.A.N.
12:07:53 discussing, the community discussing, and us
12:07:56 continuing that discussion.
12:07:57 I'm a little more comfortable with that.
12:07:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would really like neighborhood
12:08:04 input on this.
12:08:05 I think this is very important because the
12:08:06 neighborhoods are impacted.
12:08:07 I would like you to bring this to T.H.A.N., and then
12:08:13 for council to create an opportunity for a non-rush
12:08:17 meeting on it.
12:08:18 And I might suggest on a Thursday when we don't have a
12:08:22 night meeting, which would be --
12:08:27 >> You need to give T.H.A.N. a fair amount of time
12:08:29 because they only meet Monday.
12:08:30 >>GWEN MILLER: They don't meet now till May.
12:08:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: June 7th we don't have a night
12:08:36 I would like to schedule for 1:30 on June 7th.
12:08:38 >>CATHERINE COYLE: We were also hoping to keep this in
12:08:43 the July cycle for chapter 27 changes if that's
12:08:47 >> Can you accomplish that or do we need to do it
12:08:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We can do it earlier.
12:08:53 >>> We can do it earlier.
12:08:54 I can tell you now, taking to the T.H.A.N. we'll
12:08:56 probably wind up back at Margaret Vizzi's house.
12:08:59 That's the zoning chair of T.H.A.N.
12:09:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Maybe come back on an earlier time
12:09:07 >>> We also need to workshop this with YCDC.
12:09:12 >> Which is better for you, the 31st or the
12:09:15 >>CATHERINE COYLE: 31 probably.
12:09:21 >> At 1:30 we are having a discussion on the hearing
12:09:23 master and maybe we can go after that.
12:09:26 So my motion would be that we continue this until May
12:09:30 31st at 1:30 following the discussion of the
12:09:32 hearing master.
12:09:35 >> Second.
12:09:35 >>CHAIRMAN: Motion and second.
12:09:36 (Motion carried).
12:09:41 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Thank you very much.
12:09:42 >>GWEN MILLER: That's it, Ms. Coyle?
12:09:44 Now we go to information from council members starting
12:09:47 with pastor Scott.
12:09:50 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Madam Chair.
12:09:57 Requesting a resolution.
12:09:59 What I would like to do, radar council can help me
12:10:02 with this, is pass out the new resolution in the form
12:10:05 that you are accustomed to.
12:10:21 This was sent to me, requesting a resolution presented
12:10:23 to council, so this can be made at a presentation on
12:10:25 the 23rd.
12:10:27 This has to do with health care coverage.
12:10:31 We though a -- know a lot of citizens are not covered.
12:10:34 So they were asking for a resolution recognizing the
12:10:37 23rd to the 29th for the uninsured week.
12:10:40 You can see the language that's there.
12:10:43 And so I will move that.
12:10:47 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
12:10:49 (Motion carried).
12:10:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Anything he is, reverend Scott?
12:10:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The other thing, Madam Chairman, at
12:10:55 some point again, I wish that because there are three
12:11:00 of us that are new on the council, if we can spend
12:11:04 maybe an hour, hour and a half, talking about process,
12:11:08 how to get things on the agenda, you know, what the
12:11:11 processor establishing a process.
12:11:13 I find it very difficult trying to get things on the
12:11:18 So I would like for us to spend, you know, at least an
12:11:21 hour and a half, two hours, to talk about process.
12:11:24 And talk about how council operates, functions, so all
12:11:29 of us can make sure that we are knowledgeable on what
12:11:34 the process is, and that we can better manage our
12:11:38 For instance, on this particular item, I guess I
12:11:42 jumped through a hundred happens getting this here
12:11:44 And I'm accustomed to sending an item to all council
12:11:51 members saying this item is being placed on the agenda
12:11:53 for discussion.
12:11:54 With backup material.
12:11:58 Evidently that's not how you all function.
12:12:00 So I just need to talk about process and a whole lot
12:12:03 of other things in line with that.
12:12:05 I think that it would be very helpful for all of us.
12:12:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Shelby has a comment on that.
12:12:12 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, council.
12:12:16 I have been in discussion with council members for
12:12:19 some time about how council wants to approach that.
12:12:23 We do have rules.
12:12:25 We do have a new council.
12:12:27 We do have new ideas to bring to the table.
12:12:30 And there's always an opportunity to improve the
12:12:35 The best way to do it is up to the council.
12:12:38 You can have it during a regular meeting and spend the
12:12:42 Could you set up a workshop on a separate day.
12:12:45 You can have it as a retreat.
12:12:53 As you see now you are not actually facing each other
12:12:56 and having a dialogue.
12:12:59 >> A retreat.
12:13:00 >> Second.
12:13:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Obviously if you like I can bring
12:13:02 back some suggestions.
12:13:03 I can work with the chair.
12:13:04 We could work with the clerk and the administration on
12:13:06 how best to accomplish that.
12:13:09 Obviously time is of the essence because the sooner
12:13:11 that the left of -- level of comfort that you need to
12:13:14 do your business the better off the system is.
12:13:19 So if you like, if you wish to move this
12:13:21 expeditiously, just put it under staff reports,
12:13:25 unfinished business.
12:13:27 If you make it for next week, I will probably not be
12:13:29 able to give you backup material timely.
12:13:32 If you give me two weeks I'll be able to come back.
12:13:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Reverend Scott, thank you.
12:13:41 Council has room for improvement.
12:13:43 And I think that this is something that we should
12:13:45 definitely do.
12:13:46 The sooner the better.
12:13:48 And I gladly second the motion.
12:13:50 And Mr. Shelby, do a good job.
12:13:52 Give us lots of options.
12:13:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I will relish the opportunity.
12:13:57 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second on the
12:13:59 (Motion carried).
12:14:00 Anything else, reverend Scott?
12:14:05 We start at the end.
12:14:08 Reverend Scott has to leave.
12:14:09 So Mr. Caetano.
12:14:11 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Thank you.
12:14:16 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want to say, imagine how I feel
12:14:23 with training.
12:14:23 I think it's a great idea if we do that workshop.
12:14:26 And the sooner the better.
12:14:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
12:14:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: A couple things.
12:14:33 Proud parents of an eagle scout, Travis James Fullton
12:14:36 of troop 222.
12:14:38 I would like to give him a commendation.
12:14:41 I'll give to the him in person.
12:14:43 >> Second.
12:14:43 (Motion carried).
12:14:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And asking again somebody from the
12:14:52 Gandy, south civic association, to -- it's a minor
12:14:56 Let me ask ladies from legal, when are we doing the
12:15:00 sign ordinance?
12:15:04 >> Ladies from legal?
12:15:09 >>> I have high, high hopes, I'm almost there, high,
12:15:12 high hopes that I will be able to bring back to you --
12:15:15 I was hoping for May but May is getting booked.
12:15:18 So I'm going to have -- I have had a lot of
12:15:21 conversations with the outside with, the inside, so
12:15:24 I'm really close.
12:15:24 I'm hoping either the end of May, maybe beginning of
12:15:28 So bring that back to you for first reading.
12:15:32 >> Mr. Steenson told me, and I have actually witnessed
12:15:35 this, when he puts out his neighborhood meeting signs,
12:15:37 it says, you know, neighborhood meeting this Tuesday,
12:15:40 and it's a little snipe sign that he put in the
12:15:42 right-of-way on purpose so people will see it and he
12:15:45 puts them out for three or four days just like they do
12:15:47 across the city, Davis Island, et cetera, and then he
12:15:50 picks them up three or four days later.
12:15:52 But he says what happens is we have a very wonderful
12:15:54 code enforcement staff, clean Tampa staff, et cetera,
12:15:59 who pull those signs and throw them away because they
12:16:02 consider them snipe signs in the right-of-way.
12:16:04 So what I want to do, I am going to make a motion that
12:16:09 we have an exemption for government signs. The
12:16:12 government is allowed to put out snipe signs and
12:16:14 allowance city meetings.
12:16:16 So I would consider, and just direct staff to look at
12:16:18 the possibility of including the neighborhood snipe
12:16:22 signs for a limited purpose, for a limited time
12:16:25 period, to be exempt from the snipe sign ordinance.
12:16:31 >>> We have sort of already done that.
12:16:32 What I may just need to do, because I did put in after
12:16:34 our last workshop the allowability for signs,
12:16:39 advertising community events, and neighborhood events,
12:16:43 to be within the government sign exemption.
12:16:46 But I hear what you are saying.
12:16:48 And let me make sure that covers it.
12:16:51 >> Let's say registered neighborhood associations.
12:16:53 >>JULIA COLE: I can look at the way it's currently
12:16:57 And if I need to add some language to deal with that
12:16:59 issue, I'll be happy.
12:17:00 >>GWEN MILLER: So we don't need the motion.
12:17:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You are already looking at it.
12:17:04 I'll withdraw the motion.
12:17:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Anything else?
12:17:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's it.
12:17:07 Thank you.
12:17:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Saul-Sena?
12:17:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
12:17:11 Mrs. Chairman.
12:17:12 I'm passing out something about wetlands protection.
12:17:15 The state legislature is considering undermining local
12:17:20 wetlands protection.
12:17:22 I'm sorry, I didn't bring the copy of the editorial
12:17:24 about it.
12:17:25 But there's a bill going through the state legislature
12:17:28 which will preclude local areas from having stricter
12:17:33 environmental regulations than the state does.
12:17:36 And it really ties our hands on a local level.
12:17:40 So what I would like to ask that when do is talk to
12:17:45 our -- I think Debby Stevenson is the person from the
12:17:51 city who is up in Tallahassee, or whoever sees
12:17:57 Tallahassee, to make sure we are weighing in on this
12:18:00 I think the administration likes two weeks but the
12:18:03 legislature is only in for other three weeks.
12:18:07 If Deb I could report back to us next Thursday if the
12:18:09 city has taken a stand on protecting our local --
12:18:14 ability to have environmental legislation, and so that
12:18:17 we would be able to take a stand if we haven't already
12:18:23 done so.
12:18:24 Is that clear enough?
12:18:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I am not going to second your
12:18:28 I am going to suggest something stronger.
12:18:31 >> Okay, cool.
12:18:32 >>> Because there isn't much time and I know I feel
12:18:34 strongly about this.
12:18:35 You obviously feel strongly about this.
12:18:37 Wetland protection is extremely important in the city
12:18:40 and county.
12:18:43 And the EPC has been doing a very, very good job of it
12:18:46 for the last 20-something years or 30 years.
12:18:49 The state is trying to withdraw the EPC's ability to
12:18:57 do that and take us back --
12:18:58 >> To the fifties.
12:19:00 >> Yes, exactly.
12:19:01 Back to the fifties.
12:19:02 They want to say basically one size fits all, and that
12:19:05 all across the state they should just use the state
12:19:09 But our rules are tougher.
12:19:10 And I think they are tougher because this community
12:19:12 cares more.
12:19:13 And we have obliterated so much of our wetlands
12:19:21 So I am going to just move that Mr. Shelby draft a
12:19:25 letter from this council on the chair's signature
12:19:31 urging the state to leave that alone, whatever the
12:19:35 appropriate language is, to kill the bill that's
12:19:40 pending on the issue and leave the Hillsborough County
12:19:43 EPC out it and let us protect our wetlands in the way
12:19:47 we feel fit.
12:19:51 >> Second.
12:19:52 >>MARTIN SHELBY: To whom is that bet letter to be
12:19:55 >> All our state legislators and governor.
12:19:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: To the delegation, and to the --
12:20:02 >> If you want to do it for the whole legislature.
12:20:04 >> Ultimate limit -- ultimately the governor has the
12:20:07 ability not to sign.
12:20:10 >> One to every state legislator?
12:20:12 >>GWEN MILLER: I think to be sent to the delegation,
12:20:14 and then they would get it.
12:20:18 City delegation.
12:20:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here's my motion.
12:20:21 Send it to the delegation, is it in committee or out
12:20:26 of committee?
12:20:27 >> I'm not sure.
12:20:27 >> If it's committee send it to the committee chairs,
12:20:31 send it to the Senate president and the house speaker
12:20:33 and send it to the governor. That should suffice.
12:20:42 >> We have a motion and second.
12:20:43 (Motion carried).
12:20:44 >>CHAIRMAN: Anything else, Ms. Saul-Sena?
12:20:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The Seminole hates civic center is
12:20:51 going to be renovated.
12:20:52 People have concerns.
12:20:53 I would like to set a special discussion meeting on
12:20:55 that on the 18th at 9:00.
12:20:59 In our Mascotte room, to discuss the Seminole Heights
12:21:02 garden center.
12:21:03 We need the people who are overseeing it and the
12:21:07 historic preservation people.
12:21:08 And the people from Seminole Heights who contacted me
12:21:14 about it.
12:21:15 The 18th.
12:21:16 It's a Wednesday morning, the 18th at 9:00 in our
12:21:19 Mascotte room.
12:21:24 >> Second.
12:21:24 (Motion carried).
12:21:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Anything else?
12:21:31 Some new standing committee -- an oversight.
12:21:35 You didn't have a vice chair so I had to put you as
12:21:38 vice chair.
12:21:42 Public works, vice chair.
12:21:44 Make a change there.
12:21:45 And I need to have a commendation made for all the
12:21:48 women of Zion international corporation.
12:21:51 They are having the annual night of women of God
12:21:54 conference on April 20th.
12:21:58 >> So moved.
12:21:59 >> Second.
12:21:59 (Motion carried).
12:22:00 >> Anything else, clerk?
12:22:08 >> Move to receive and file.
12:22:09 >> Second.
12:22:09 (Motion carried).
12:22:10 Anything else?
12:22:14 >>THE CLERK: I have some other items.
12:22:19 We have received a request from Paul Catoe.
12:22:24 He would like to hear before council on May 10th
12:22:27 to recognize the national tourism week.
12:22:30 >> So moved.
12:22:31 >> Second.
12:22:31 (Motion carried).
12:22:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: At what point in the agenda, Madam
12:22:37 >> That would be under developmental activities.
12:22:46 Also a request from Amy Maguire, to appear on April
12:22:49 26th to provide a five-minute presentation on the
12:22:52 realty check -- reality check Tampa Bay
12:22:59 On April 26th they are everything a convention,
12:23:01 having an event on May 18th pertaining to this.
12:23:04 >> So moved.
12:23:05 >> Second.
12:23:05 (Motion carried).
12:23:06 >> And I have one other request from Christine
12:23:14 She would like to appear before council on April
12:23:16 26th to provide an update on the Tampa Bay cycle
12:23:21 campaign, which will be having a kickoff celebration
12:23:25 on May 1st at 10:00.
12:23:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
12:23:29 >> Second.
12:23:29 (Motion carried).
12:23:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: At what point is that, Madam Clerk?
12:23:34 >> Ceremonial.
12:23:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Shelby, do you have anything?
12:23:39 >>MARTIN SHELBY: No, thank you.
12:23:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Then we go to our audience portion.
12:23:44 (Meeting recessed.)