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09:33:51 Tampa City Council meeting
09:37:20 Tampa City Council meeting
09:37:21 Tampa City Council meeting
09:37:22 Thursday, April 19, 2007
09:37:30 9:00 a.m. session
09:39:09 [Sounding gavel]

09:39:19 Tampa City Council is called to order.
09:39:20 The chair will yield to Mr. Joseph Caetano.
09:39:23 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: This morning we have the pleasure
09:39:26 of introducing reverend Mike Jones from hope church.
09:39:29 We would like to thank him for taking part of his busy
09:39:32 day to be here for an invocation today.
09:39:35 Reverend Jones.
09:39:36 Please stand after for the pledge of allegiance.
09:39:47 >> Gracious God, we come together today and ask not
09:39:50 only recognizing your presence here, but truly seeking
09:39:52 your blessing.
09:39:55 Thank you, we thank you for those who have been called
09:39:57 to serve, to serve us whether through the elected
09:40:04 office of council, or whether through the voluntary
09:40:08 call to serve us through the fire department, through
09:40:10 the police department, to the EMS, through the various
09:40:20 ministries throughout our city, through the military
09:40:23 based in Tampa and around the world.
09:40:25 Father, we ask your blessing.

09:40:27 We thank you that you called us to submit to our
09:40:31 leaders.
09:40:32 So, Lord, we ask for our leaders, those gathered here
09:40:35 today.
09:40:35 We ask that you would give them wisdom, that they make
09:40:39 decisions that affect not only today but they affect.
09:40:52 We thank you, Lord, that you say if any of us lacks
09:40:56 wisdom we should ask you who loves to give it.
09:41:00 So, Lord, we ask that you give us all the humility and
09:41:04 the courage to seek you for what we lack.
09:41:08 Lord, we thank you again for the beauty of this day,
09:41:11 for the beauty of this place.
09:41:12 We thank you for the beauty that we call Tampa.
09:41:14 And we ask your will, your guidance at this time.
09:41:20 Amen.
09:41:23 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
09:41:41 >>CHAIRMAN: Roll call.
09:41:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
09:41:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
09:41:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
09:41:46 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
09:41:47 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.

09:41:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:41:50 Before we begin our agenda, I would just like for us to
09:41:53 do a moment of silence for the tragedy that happened on
09:41:55 the Virginia tech campus, and for family members who it
09:42:00 lost their loved ones, their sons and their daughters.
09:42:06 (moment of silence)
09:42:12 Amen.
09:42:20 At this time we have a presentation of Officer of the
09:42:22 Month by Reverend Scott.
09:42:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I just wanted to say as a Virginia tech
09:42:27 alumnus, I did my master's degree there in the '70s,
09:42:32 and it's painful for the whole nation.
09:42:34 It's painful for us Hokies.
09:42:37 And our priors are with the families and everybody who
09:42:39 is up there.
09:42:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's my pleasure for the first time on
09:42:50 behalf of you and the Public Safety Committee to
09:42:53 recognize those who mean so much to this community, who
09:42:57 protect us, and who are there for us, and particularly
09:43:00 in times of crisis.
09:43:02 And so today I'm going to ask Chief Hogue to come up,
09:43:08 and he's going to make some presentation as well.

09:43:11 I am going to ask detective Ashley Roberts to come
09:43:15 forward.
09:43:16 City Council is giving a commendation today for the
09:43:19 outstanding service.
09:43:21 So at this time, I ask Chief Hogue to come.
09:43:25 I guess he's familiar with the whole process.
09:43:34 >>CHIEF HOGUE: Good morning, council.
09:43:36 I appreciate once again the indulgence of council to
09:43:41 recognize the Officer of the Month.
09:43:42 We have a pretty special young lady here today that is
09:43:45 our Officer of the Month, detective Ashley Roberts.
09:43:51 But we can only call her detective Roberts for another
09:43:53 two days or three days because she's recently been
09:43:57 promoted to the rank of police sergeant.
09:43:59 So she will be going to the midnight shift shortly and
09:44:05 you won't see her anymore.
09:44:08 Ashley has always been the go-to person for the police
09:44:12 department.
09:44:13 We have all been very impressed, anytime we had an
09:44:16 incident that needed some particular attention.
09:44:21 We put Ashley on it.
09:44:22 And she would solve it.

09:44:25 And why she's receiving this award today is no
09:44:29 exception.
09:44:32 We had kind after new phenomena starting to happen in
09:44:34 the City of Tampa, and that was the theft of catalytic
09:44:38 converters.
09:44:39 And we were plagued with people cutting catalytic
09:44:45 converters out from under people's vehicles parked in
09:44:49 front of somebody's yard and essentially running off
09:44:51 with a catalytic converter with probably left the home
09:44:55 own we are something like a $500 bill to get that
09:44:58 fixed, and would run down to a junk yard, and would
09:45:01 sell this catalytic converter for the precious metals
09:45:04 that are actually inside of it, for somewhere around 50
09:45:07 to $75.
09:45:09 And this was becoming a very popular crime here in
09:45:12 Tampa.
09:45:13 And we need to put a stop to it early on.
09:45:16 And we put Ashley on it.
09:45:18 And Ashley, not only did she stop some of the people
09:45:24 who were doing this, but really the difference that she
09:45:27 made is she also took it to the people who were buying
09:45:32 it.

09:45:33 Because we weren't getting much cooperation from the
09:45:35 folks that were buying these products saying, well,
09:45:37 there's no serial number on them, we don't know, they
09:45:40 weren't giving us any names of the people that would
09:45:42 bring them in and sell them.
09:45:43 And we really weren't getting much cooperation.
09:45:46 So we did a little what we call a reverse sting.
09:45:50 We went in, and we sold some catalytic converters to
09:45:56 some folks and told them they were stolen and they
09:45:59 bought them and we arrested them.
09:46:00 And we have search warrants in their businesses, and we
09:46:05 dragged off many catalytic converters they had
09:46:08 purchased and this was all through the work of Ashley
09:46:10 Roberts.
09:46:10 And that's why we are here today, to recognize her.
09:46:16 She's an exceptional employee, and it's clearly my
09:46:18 pleasure to give her the April of '07 Officer of the
09:46:23 Month because she surely deserves it.
09:46:25 Thank you.
09:46:26 [ Applause ]
09:46:36 >> It's my pleasure to present to detective Ashley
09:46:40 Roberts in recognition of her outstanding service,

09:46:44 Ashley Roberts has been selected as Officer of the
09:46:46 Month for April 2007.
09:46:49 Detective Roberts' tenacity and investigative skills
09:46:53 were instrumental in the arrest of three felons for
09:46:58 seven months, keeping our city safer, City Council
09:47:02 commends you.
09:47:07 Thank you.
09:47:20 >> Steve Stickley representing Stepp's towing service.
09:47:23 Mr. and Mrs. Stepp, on behalf of them, we would like
09:47:27 to present you this statute.
09:47:28 And believe me I'm still trying to get them to change
09:47:32 the gender.
09:47:33 [ Laughter ]
09:47:35 I would like to present that to you on behalf of
09:47:37 Stepp's towing, a gift certificate to Lee Roy Selmon
09:47:41 Expressway.
09:47:41 Thank you for everything you do. [ Applause ]
09:47:51 >> Cindy Diane Martin.
09:47:53 On behalf of Bill Currie Ford and all of his employees
09:47:57 we would like to present with you this female watch for
09:47:59 you.
09:47:59 [ Laughter ]

09:48:00 Congratulations.
09:48:08 >>STEVE MICHELINI: What I have is not gender specific
09:48:10 so you can enjoy it however you wish.
09:48:14 I'm here on behalf of a variety of different corporate
09:48:17 entities here in Tampa that would like to honor you.
09:48:20 The first is Bryn Allen studios.
09:48:22 They would like to present with you a gift certificate
09:48:24 for you to have your portrait taken so you can enjoy
09:48:27 that anytime you wish.
09:48:28 On behalf of David loxer and Bern's steakhouse, I'm
09:48:36 providing you with a $100 gift certificate to enjoy
09:48:38 that at Bern's steakhouse.
09:48:40 I think you already provided -- you have the statute
09:48:44 from Stepp's towing.
09:48:45 From the Hillsborough County towing association, we are
09:48:48 providing you with a gift certificate for $50 at your
09:48:51 choice, Carabbas or Outback.
09:48:53 In addition to that the Florida Aquarium is providing
09:48:55 you with unlimited one year full membership for a party
09:49:00 of four and you can go in and enjoy yourself at the
09:49:03 Florida Aquarium.
09:49:04 And then you have the Lowry Park Zoo, and you can go

09:49:09 enjoy the animals at the zoo.
09:49:11 After you have enjoyed the animals on the street.
09:49:13 [ Laughter ]
09:49:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: After all those presentations, I want
09:49:30 to sign up.
09:49:32 Actually, we just thank you for what you do for the
09:49:34 community.
09:49:38 You have an opportunity to make remarks at this time.
09:49:42 Come to the mike.
09:49:44 >>> My brother Richard.
09:49:45 My aunt Vicki.
09:49:47 Grandma Susan.
09:49:48 My sergeant.
09:49:50 I just want to thank have been for being here, and my
09:49:54 sergeant for putting me up for this award.
09:49:58 My squad for helping me for the eight grueling weeks of
09:50:03 cracking this case.
09:50:04 Anything I asked them to do they were there for me.
09:50:06 My husband for taking a lot of the stress.
09:50:13 I want to thank everybody for recognizing me.
09:50:17 I truly appreciate it.
09:50:18 A great honor.

09:50:19 [ Applause ]
09:50:23 >>GWEN MILLER: At this time we have a presentation to
09:50:33 the firefighter of the quarter.
09:50:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Madam Chair.
09:50:47 At this time we are going to ask Chief Jones to come
09:50:50 up.
09:50:50 Also captain Bill wade.
09:50:53 We are presenting a certificate, a commendation for his
09:50:56 service.
09:50:56 So at this time, I turn it over to Chief Jones.
09:51:01 Thank you.
09:51:09 >>> Chief Jones: It is an honor to come before you and
09:51:11 recognize the firefighter of the quarter.
09:51:13 This quarter's recognition goes to captain Bill wade.
09:51:18 Captain wade has been with Tampa fire since 1981, and
09:51:21 in 26 years he served in a variety of positions,
09:51:24 including firefighter, paramedic, lieutenant, hazardous
09:51:28 materials specialist, medic response team, and he's
09:51:31 been a fire captain in the field.
09:51:34 He's a well respected instructor as well.
09:51:37 At HCC we used to team teach in Ybor City in the EMT
09:51:41 program and continues to teach there, has continued for

09:51:43 years.
09:51:44 For more than ten years captain wade has been the
09:51:46 public information officer at Tampa Fire Rescue.
09:51:48 It's an enormous task, and he handles it very expertly
09:51:52 and efficiently.
09:51:53 He works with the media at all hours of the day and
09:51:56 night, and that's very challenging, and yet he carries
09:51:59 itself off with a level of professionalism that's
09:52:02 really unmatched.
09:52:04 He responds promptly with honesty and integrity.
09:52:07 And because of his extensive fire and EMS background,
09:52:11 he's able to communicate really complex issues in a
09:52:16 very understandable way.
09:52:17 He certainly has promoted the fire safety message, and
09:52:23 a positive image for Tampa fire because of his actions.
09:52:26 Captain wade's constant contact with the media, CTTV
09:52:30 and various other programs has really helped to educate
09:52:32 the public in so many aspects of fire rescue.
09:52:36 And we really can't measure those benefits.
09:52:40 His efforts reflect positively on himself, the
09:52:42 department, and certainly the fire and EMS profession
09:52:45 as a whole.

09:52:47 And we as a City of Tampa and Tampa Fire Rescue are
09:52:51 truly honored and fortunate to have captain wade as a
09:52:54 member of this department.
09:52:55 Congratulations, captain wade.
09:52:57 [ Applause ]
09:53:05 This plaque is presented on behalf of the review board.
09:53:09 Then the real plaque comes from Reverend Scott.
09:53:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Chief Jones.
09:53:15 Again on behalf of the chair of City Council, all the
09:53:18 City Council members, we want to present you with this
09:53:20 commendation presented to captain bill wade in
09:53:23 recognition of his dedicated service.
09:53:25 Captain bill wade has been selected as fair fighter of
09:53:27 the quarter.
09:53:28 Captain wade's career as a fire includes hazardous
09:53:34 material technician, technical medic, has served the
09:53:36 city for 26 years.
09:53:40 City Council wants to give you this.
09:53:43 It's my pleasure, my honor.
09:53:46 When you think about public safety, and law enforcement
09:53:52 and our policemen and firefighters, how important they
09:53:57 mean to the community particularly in light of what

09:53:59 happened recently at Virginia tech.
09:54:01 So thank you again for all that you do for the city and
09:54:04 for the citizens of this community.
09:54:06 It's my honor and pleasure to present you with this
09:54:10 plaque.
09:54:11 [ Applause ]
09:54:19 And other presentations for you at this time.
09:54:25 >> On behalf of Bill Currie Ford, we would like to
09:54:28 present with you this watch as well.
09:54:30 So we hope you enjoy that and congratulations.
09:54:35 [ Applause ]
09:54:41 >> Steve Stickley representing Stepp's towing.
09:54:44 It's actually my pleasure to present this statue to
09:54:48 captain wade.
09:54:50 I have been fortunate enough to know him for 14 years
09:54:53 and worked a lot with him with the DUI mock crashes,
09:54:57 with area high schools.
09:54:58 It's been our pleasure.
09:55:00 He's a true professional.
09:55:01 On behalf of Stepp's towing and Jim and Judy Stepp, we
09:55:05 would like to thank you very much.
09:55:07 The statute, and gift certificate.

09:55:10 [ Applause ]
09:55:15 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I want to tell awe couple personal
09:55:19 things about Bill wade.
09:55:21 He's there in the good times and he's there in the bad
09:55:24 times.
09:55:24 He's the face for the fire department and fire rescue,
09:55:30 under the best circumstances and under the worst.
09:55:32 And he took it upon himself to begin videotaping
09:55:36 different things that were happening out in the field,
09:55:38 and he took those back to the classroom and used them
09:55:41 as instructional materials for the upcoming
09:55:43 firefighters in their schooling program.
09:55:45 That was an innovation that he initiated.
09:55:49 He did it on his own time, he did it with his own
09:55:51 camera, and I assume the fire department at some point
09:55:54 had enough money to buy a video camera to replace the
09:55:57 one that he had.
09:55:58 But he also took still photographs.
09:56:00 And he worked with the Hillsborough County towing
09:56:02 association when they initiated basically a rescue
09:56:08 rodeo, where we invited fire rescue units from all over
09:56:11 the bay area to come and participate in how to save

09:56:14 people, how to get them out of crashed cars.
09:56:17 We brought those cars in to various areas, and the
09:56:21 teams competed on a time basis to see how they could
09:56:25 get someone out of a car in an emergency circumstance.
09:56:28 We used that as a training program, too.
09:56:30 And that was provided to the fire rescue department as
09:56:34 a cooperative effort with the Tampa, Hillsborough
09:56:35 County towing association.
09:56:38 So there are a lot of things that he does behind the
09:56:40 scenes.
09:56:40 He does it on his own.
09:56:42 And he does it for the betterment of the community and
09:56:44 the betterment of his fellow officer and the fire
09:56:47 rescue department.
09:56:48 For that he goes way beyond the call of duty.
09:56:51 And we would like to congratulate him on this honor.
09:56:53 It's long overdue for him.
09:56:56 We have the same basic things, but I wanted to add my
09:56:59 own personal congratulations to him and his family for
09:57:01 what they have done for this community.
09:57:05 Bryn Allen studios, now about the photographs.
09:57:08 So we would like you to go have your portraits done for

09:57:12 you and your family.
09:57:13 Bern's steakhouse, gift certificate.
09:57:16 Enjoy yourself over at Bern's.
09:57:18 The commemorative plaque you have from Stepp's towing.
09:57:21 The Hillsborough County towing association, the $50
09:57:26 gift certificate for you and your family.
09:57:30 Your gift certificate to Bern's, Lowry Park Zoo.
09:57:34 Enjoy the zoo however you wish.
09:57:40 Great place to go to.
09:57:41 And the Florida Aquarium.
09:57:43 Again, enjoy the aquarium and all of the things over
09:57:47 there.
09:57:48 So congratulations again.
09:57:50 I would like to add my gratitude to you and all that
09:57:53 you do for the men and women at fire rescue.
09:57:57 [ Applause ]
09:58:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Congratulations.
09:58:03 I believe your family members are here, wife, if you
09:58:05 want to introduce them.
09:58:10 >> I want to thank City Council.
09:58:12 This is my wife.
09:58:13 Please come up here and join me.

09:58:15 I was telling her, I was very embarrassed by this, and
09:58:18 what should I say when I get up to the podium?
09:58:21 And following her good advice, I'm just going to say
09:58:25 thank you very much.
09:58:28 Everybody that I do get to work with.
09:58:30 And thank you for your support of Tampa Fire Rescue.
09:58:33 Thank you.
09:58:33 [ Applause ]
09:59:19 Now we have a presentation made by the president of
09:59:23 MOSI.
09:59:27 Would you like to make an announcement?
09:59:35 >> Good morning.
09:59:36 My name is wit Ostrenko, president of MOSI.
09:59:39 Every year when we make this announcement, it seems
09:59:43 like we follow this wonderful presentation by the
09:59:46 firefighters and the policemen and it's just
09:59:49 heartwarming to be able to follow them.
09:59:52 MOSI is another great asset of the city.
09:59:56 Work I for the residents, a million and 48,000 people
10:00:07 that came to enjoy your science center.
10:00:10 We appreciate your support every year, each year.
10:00:12 And it's good to see councilman Scott.

10:00:16 I call you commissioner for sure.
10:00:19 I will try not to.
10:00:26 This is something we have done for the past six years,
10:00:28 recognizing a national figure, a scientist in our
10:00:34 world.
10:00:38 It's really an amazing program.
10:00:40 And I am going to get our chairman for the last six
10:00:47 years to announce the new winner for this year, to
10:00:50 really take a stand on how to get Hispanic youth to
10:00:55 stay in school, and see if we can reduce the dropout
10:00:58 rate of 32%, which is so high compared to
10:01:03 African-Americans and others, which is down in the 9
10:01:09 and 10% range.
10:01:11 And we think, you know, mentorship, so we are bringing
10:01:18 the sciences to the community as truly national
10:01:20 recognition to shine some light on the City of Tampa
10:01:26 and the scientists that make a difference.
10:01:28 Let me introduce you to presentation of this year's
10:01:36 award winner and who is the founder of this program.
10:01:41 >> Good morning.
10:01:42 It's lovely seeing so many of you that have attended
10:01:44 our event before.

10:01:45 Over the last six years, MOSI's national Hispanic
10:01:48 scientist of the year event has impacted the lives of
10:01:53 over 15,000 children due to the fact that in the days
10:01:57 when our national scientist of the year is in Tampa,
10:01:59 we bring 1200 Hispanic children from middle school to
10:02:06 MOSI to experience MOSI for the day.
10:02:08 Many of them have never even been there before much
10:02:11 less afford to come and we are thrilled to be able to
10:02:13 have community partners that help us underwrite on
10:02:17 that day.
10:02:18 They have the opportunity to meet the national
10:02:19 Hispanic scientist recipient.
10:02:21 And we are talking about some very special people.
10:02:25 They had a chance to neat a Nobel laureate, the only
10:02:29 living Hispanic scientist to receive a Nobel prize for
10:02:33 his discovery of a hole in the ozone, Dr. Malina from
10:02:38 Mexico. The girls met the first woman and Hispanic
10:02:42 surgeon general of the United States, Dr. Antonia
10:02:45 NOVELLA who was here four years ago, so on and so on.
10:02:50 Harvard researchers.
10:02:51 Last year was the woman that ever graduated, first
10:02:54 Hispanic woman that ever graduated from Columbia

10:02:56 university with a degree.
10:02:59 So the role models and mentoring that the scientists
10:03:03 do for our youth is of utmost importance to MOSI and
10:03:07 our community.
10:03:07 This year, it's going to be even a better show.
10:03:11 We are so thrilled to announce that this year's
10:03:14 recipient is Dr. Louis Martin Vega.
10:03:17 Many of you remember Dr. Martin Vega having been the
10:03:21 dean of the college of engineering at the University
10:03:23 of South Florida for five years.
10:03:24 Dr. Martin VEGA is nationally recognized as an
10:03:29 administrator, worked as a volunteer chair of the
10:03:33 industrial engineering.
10:03:34 More information about Dr. Martin VEGA is in the
10:03:39 brochure that we passed out.
10:03:42 He is now the dean of college engineering at NC state
10:03:45 but also a philanthropist and heck of an inspiration
10:03:50 for these kids to stay in school and go forward and
10:03:52 perhaps become their national Hispanic scientist in
10:03:55 the years to come.
10:03:56 So we invite you.
10:03:57 Mr. Miranda, you remember presenting on behalf of the

10:04:01 of the city on several indications to the national
10:04:03 Hispanic scientist magazine with a picture.
10:04:09 Nevertheless, we welcome you.
10:04:10 We hope that you will join us.
10:04:12 The event is going to be held the weekend of October
10:04:14 5th.
10:04:15 And for further information you have a brochure in
10:04:17 front of us.
10:04:19 We thank you for allowing us to present it today.
10:04:21 And we look forward to seeing you in our program.
10:04:24 Thank you.
10:04:26 [ Applause ]
10:04:30 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a 10:00 certain.
10:04:33 Ms. Betsy Wiggins to come up to make a decision with
10:04:38 an agreement of the City of Tampa.
10:04:40 Item number 14.
10:04:46 >> Cindy Miller, director of growth management
10:04:48 services.
10:04:48 And I want to just be able to report that my staff and
10:04:54 I are working with Ms. Wiggins and Ms. Hart, that
10:04:57 there was a particular land transaction from back in
10:05:00 2004 that they requested that we take another look at.

10:05:03 I believe two weeks ago Ms. Wiggins indicated and Ms.
10:05:06 Hart that they had met with me.
10:05:07 We will be back to you as City Council with a
10:05:10 resolution to properly address the matter, and it will
10:05:13 be basically to look at credit or an adjustment to the
10:05:18 sales agreement for a land transaction that occurred a
10:05:20 couple of years ago.
10:05:21 They are currently building an affordable house on
10:05:23 that property.
10:05:24 And we do intend to come back before you with that in
10:05:26 the next roughly two weeks.
10:05:28 We have to get the various documents prepared and
10:05:32 approved.
10:05:32 And I believe based upon our discussion with Ms.
10:05:34 Wiggins yesterday, that will be a satisfactory
10:05:37 solution.
10:05:40 >> Betty Wiggins, East Tampa business and civic
10:05:43 association, 2814 north 22nd street.
10:05:46 And we have been in conversation with Ms. Miller and
10:05:50 her staff.
10:05:51 And we are in agreement with the proposal that they
10:05:54 have made, which is essentially a refund on the item.

10:05:58 And we agreed last time that we would not get into the
10:06:01 specifics because we expect an amiable resolution.
10:06:07 So I want to thank Ms. Miller and her staff, and also
10:06:11 Diane who has worked so hard to keep things afloat.
10:06:14 So thank you, City Council.
10:06:19 >> Diane Hart, 5006 east Cumberland drive.
10:06:24 I would just like to thank you all for your attention
10:06:26 to the matter.
10:06:27 We do realize that we come out a lot of times, and
10:06:31 it's only when we have an issue, but we would like you
10:06:33 all to know that we are going to be attending City
10:06:35 Council on a regular basis and encouraging more of our
10:06:38 community to do the same.
10:06:39 Because we realize that unless you hear from us, you
10:06:42 don't know if we have issues or not.
10:06:44 So thank you very much for attending to this.
10:06:48 Yes, we believe we will reach a decision that we can
10:06:50 all live with.
10:06:51 Thank you very much.
10:06:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Madam Chair.
10:06:55 Thank you all for coming and being here today and also
10:06:58 Ms. Miller and I talked about this issue yesterday

10:07:01 briefly.
10:07:01 Thank you very much.
10:07:02 Also, I just want to let you know, we talked about
10:07:06 this morning about having more CRA meetings out into
10:07:08 the areas.
10:07:10 So we look forward to that.
10:07:11 I look forward to that.
10:07:12 So you will see more of us out in the community as
10:07:15 well.
10:07:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you Mrs. Wiggins and Mrs. Miller.
10:07:22 Approval of agenda.
10:07:23 Are there any items on the agenda that council would
10:07:24 like to pull?
10:07:25 Any items on the agenda would you like to pull?
10:07:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move the agenda.
10:07:30 >> Second.
10:07:30 (Motion carried).
10:07:32 >>GWEN MILLER: We now go to unfinished business, item
10:07:35 number 4.
10:07:40 Chief Jones.
10:07:43 Still here?
10:07:53 >> Good morning, Madam Chair, members of council.

10:07:56 Dennis Jones, fire chief, Tampa Fire Rescue, and I'm
10:08:00 here to address storm surge signs.
10:08:02 And of course I'm always honored to be able to come
10:08:05 before you and clear up any questions that you may
10:08:07 have regarding emergency management.
10:08:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Chief, if I could, Madam Chair.
10:08:14 Just to back up a little bit.
10:08:15 Mr. LaMotte, for those council members who are new, I
10:08:20 just wanted to put this in the context of where it was
10:08:22 originally before we get into the chief's
10:08:24 presentation.
10:08:24 And Mr. LaMotte, if you could put that on the
10:08:27 overhead.
10:08:34 And specifically slide it around.
10:08:38 Maybe the bottom one.
10:08:51 I saw this in the county, one of the municipalities
10:08:57 had installed a sign.
10:08:58 This is the one in the bottom corner is the one that I
10:09:00 saw in the newspaper.
10:09:02 And I don't know if we can zoom in on it.
10:09:06 You can see on the other one.
10:09:10 On the bottom picture it says category 1, storm, 7

10:09:14 feet.
10:09:16 So it shows people as they are driving by at a major
10:09:19 intersection, obviously where the gas station is,
10:09:24 where the storm surgeons actually, you know, what the
10:09:27 height of the storm surge actually is.
10:09:29 So it becomes more of a meaningful thing.
10:09:31 So instead of just hearing it on the, you know, on
10:09:34 television, oh, a storm surge, a category one is going
10:09:38 to be seven feet, now it gives somebody an actual feel
10:09:41 as to what seven feet means in their neighborhood.
10:09:44 And so that's, just as a preface, why I brought this
10:09:51 to council about a year ago.
10:09:52 We referred it in the administration to get some
10:09:54 opinions on it.
10:09:55 We got some opinions from transportation and that sort
10:09:59 of thing.
10:10:00 And I thought that it would be a good idea to have
10:10:03 fire and our emergency management experts here to talk
10:10:06 about and give us their opinion on this type of public
10:10:11 information thing.
10:10:13 So, anyway, that's my preface.
10:10:15 Thank you, Madam Chair.

10:10:19 >>> Chief Jones: As the fire chief I am also the
10:10:23 emergency manager for the City of Tampa and I have
10:10:24 been working in that area for quite some time in
10:10:27 coordination with Hillsborough County EOC.
10:10:29 Since becoming the emergency manager, the first thing
10:10:32 I did was hire an emergency coordinator, Chauncey.
10:10:35 She is from this area.
10:10:37 She's actually from Pinellas County, educated at
10:10:40 Loyola and Georgia state university.
10:10:43 And she has been working with us in the area of
10:10:47 emergency management and actually writes the plans and
10:10:51 consults with me on that.
10:10:52 So the history I wanted to give from my standpoint is
10:10:56 Roy LaMotte from transportation wrote two letters that
10:11:01 were received and filed, and he's been here and spoken
10:11:03 regarding these signs.
10:11:05 Both of those letters, one in the summer of '06 and
10:11:08 another in February of this year -- mentioned that he
10:11:12 had coordinated with Chauncey Aquiar, our emergency
10:11:21 coordinator, and she had been meeting with Roy
10:11:22 regularly, and Chauncey and I meet on a regular basis.
10:11:24 She regularly reports to me.

10:11:27 So Roy wasn't writing from the Roy's point of view, he
10:11:30 was writing it in coordination with emergency
10:11:34 management with the City of Tampa.
10:11:35 I just wanted to clarify that.
10:11:37 I have been involved in the sign issue from the very
10:11:39 beginning in discussions.
10:11:40 And while my name didn't appear on the letter until
10:11:43 the one that you received on April the 9th, we
10:11:45 have been involved in the storm surge signage.
10:11:49 And our only comment would be that we believe public
10:11:53 education is very important, and we should try any
10:11:57 mechanism that we can to get the word out to the
10:11:59 community, but we certainly feel that storm surge
10:12:03 signs are ambiguous.
10:12:05 They may send a confusing message.
10:12:08 Any benefit of them would be theoretical and their
10:12:11 value would be hypothetical because they are not
10:12:13 widely used.
10:12:14 Hillsborough County used them in the Gibsonton area,
10:12:18 and because of maintenance costs, they have abandoned
10:12:20 that program, and survey of the public in that area
10:12:26 found they had not even noticed that the signs were

10:12:28 there.
10:12:28 So we feel that education is important, but there is a
10:12:31 lot more direct means, and I listed those on my
10:12:35 letter.
10:12:35 I don't need to repeat that, I don't suppose.
10:12:38 But we certainly believe that public education is
10:12:40 important, and we prefer to use our assets.
10:12:44 We are in scarce resource management.
10:12:46 There's a limited amount of money and we want to try
10:12:48 to send the most clear message that we can in the most
10:12:51 direct way.
10:12:51 And we just don't feel that storm surge signs
10:12:54 accomplish that.
10:12:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
10:12:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Chief, I think there was a lot of
10:13:00 confusion.
10:13:01 You and I talked on the phone about this, and I even
10:13:04 picked up on some of the confusion in the memo.
10:13:06 The signs, this sign that we are looking at -- and I
10:13:11 don't know, it not on the main overhead, but we are
10:13:15 all looking at it.
10:13:16 But, anyway, the sign down at the bottom that I'm

10:13:19 talking about is not meant to define where the storm
10:13:22 surge area is geographically.
10:13:25 In other words, it's not meant to do the boundaries.
10:13:27 And I don't know if that's what the county tried to do
10:13:29 down -- I have never been ooh wear of the county's
10:13:32 efforts down in Gibsonton.
10:13:34 This is just meant to periodically, on some major
10:13:36 intersections, you know -- and it's not just South
10:13:40 Tampa that's in the storm surge area, as you know.
10:13:43 The storm surge area actually extends up into West
10:13:46 Tampa.
10:13:47 I think it extends into obviously into downtown,
10:13:49 Channelside, Harbor Island, Davis Island, probably
10:13:53 into Ybor City a little bit.
10:13:55 Palmetto Beach.
10:13:58 >>> Yes, sir.
10:13:58 >> So I think the idea is not to try to use this to
10:14:03 geographically define where the storm surge boundary
10:14:06 is.
10:14:08 It is an informational tool.
10:14:10 And that's why I'm so confused about why anybody in
10:14:12 the administration or in your realm of emergency

10:14:17 management could possibly be opposed to additional
10:14:20 information tool.
10:14:21 Nobody has actually ever given me a price on what this
10:14:25 type of cost would be.
10:14:27 Because you know what?
10:14:29 We have many, many city poles out there so we don't
10:14:31 have to install a new pole.
10:14:33 All we have to do is throw three or four little signs
10:14:37 on some poles like this periodically around the city
10:14:40 and some major things, and that gets the word out.
10:14:42 And that's the part that's so frustrating to me is why
10:14:45 we wouldn't want to get the word out.
10:14:47 You say there's educational tools.
10:14:49 Sure there are.
10:14:50 When a hurricane comes along all of a sudden we start
10:14:52 talking about it.
10:14:53 Then when the hurricane goes away we fit talking about
10:14:55 it.
10:14:56 But this is here day in and day out, weekend and week
10:14:59 out.
10:14:59 So when I drive by the corner of Dale Mabry and Euclid
10:15:02 and see this gas station and see this sign and I'm

10:15:04 waiting there for the light to change I'm pondering
10:15:07 that, and it's something that sticks in my brain.
10:15:10 And that's a part that I just can't even imagine why
10:15:14 the city administration wouldn't be in support of it.
10:15:18 >>> Chief Jones: If I might, we don't just talk about
10:15:20 hurricanes when they are coming.
10:15:21 We talk about hurricanes year round.
10:15:23 We do --
10:15:25 >> I'm saying we.
10:15:26 We talk about it.
10:15:27 As a community, as a people at large.
10:15:30 You know the way people are.
10:15:31 We kind of put it out of our mind nine months, and
10:15:34 then the three or four months when it cranks up and
10:15:37 heats up, that's when as a society we start talking
10:15:39 about it.
10:15:40 I know you guys are into it year round.
10:15:42 >>> As a city we begin intensively mid April and we
10:15:44 kick off a directed campaign May 1st and that goes
10:15:48 all the way through the hurricane season, end of
10:15:52 November.
10:15:52 We did have a cost on one of Roy's previous memos,

10:15:57 just for the materials, using existing poles, just for
10:15:59 the materials.
10:16:00 And it is relatively expensive for the metal and the
10:16:04 laminates that go onto the signs.
10:16:08 And if I had that much money I would apply in the
10:16:10 other areas that I feel would be more comprehensive
10:16:12 and more direct.
10:16:13 That's just my opinion as the emergency manager.
10:16:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Mulhern?
10:16:21 >>MARY MULHERN: I think the fact that -- oh, sorry,
10:16:24 thanks.
10:16:24 That Mr. Dingfelder had to explain the signs, and we
10:16:26 are still not clear about it.
10:16:28 And I'm also wondering how you would make a
10:16:32 determination about where these are going to go.
10:16:35 If they are not geographically, you know, if there's
10:16:38 in a reason to put them in a certain neighborhood or
10:16:40 certain area, I don't know how would you decide where
10:16:42 they go.
10:16:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's not what I meant.
10:16:46 There was an issue that maybe you define the boundary
10:16:49 of saying the storm surge one goes to here and then

10:16:53 the storm surge 2 goes to here, and you actually place
10:16:58 those out around the boundary of the storm surge
10:17:01 because that was part of the confusion today, the
10:17:03 various storm surge areas.
10:17:05 My point is, you run, for example, classically, on
10:17:09 Westshore, Manhattan, or Dale Mabry or MacDill,
10:17:12 you would run these signs just once every mile or so,
10:17:17 okay, up those roads, vertically on a stick, okay,
10:17:21 just like we saw a minute ago.
10:17:22 And then that way, if you were driving on those major
10:17:26 roads, it's going to be repeated in your brain over
10:17:29 and over that if there's a category one storm that's
10:17:34 coming over the top of my car at the corner of Dale
10:17:37 Mabry and Euclid or whatever.
10:17:41 Et cetera, et cetera.
10:17:42 That's more what I was getting at.
10:17:44 >> Okay.
10:17:45 It seems like it would be cost prohibitive.
10:17:48 And if our emergency management director is telling us
10:17:51 that the money would be better spent on other
10:17:55 educational tools, I think the fact that it hasn't
10:17:58 been proven to really have any beneficial or effect

10:18:03 elsewhere, where they have them, I would trust his
10:18:06 recommendation.
10:18:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I just want to make a statement
10:18:12 that signs are confusing at some point.
10:18:14 And I'll give you an example.
10:18:16 Driving in this morning to City Hall right there on
10:18:19 Ashley, about the second sign in that says St. Pete
10:18:22 Times Forum, which is in Tampa, not in St. Pete, you
10:18:26 have a little arrow that says straight.
10:18:29 Then you look on the bottom and it says Tampa museum
10:18:32 parking.
10:18:32 There's no arrow. There's another arrow above the
10:18:35 line down.
10:18:35 So if you are a visitor in this city and you are going
10:18:39 to the St. Pete Times Forum in Tampa, you make a right
10:18:42 and park there?
10:18:44 The answer is no.
10:18:45 Because that sign is for me to confusing.
10:18:49 Now imagine someone who doesn't know the city.
10:18:51 So those are the things that I'm bringing up that
10:18:53 signs do a job.
10:18:55 But they don't do sometimes a correct job.

10:18:58 And by the way, we got the Tampa Bay Devil Rays in
10:19:02 St. Pete.
10:19:03 Now that's confusing in the back of St. Pete and Tampa
10:19:07 and Tampa and St. Pete.
10:19:08 Now you really get confusing.
10:19:11 These are the things I'm talking about signs.
10:19:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Madam Chair, if I could.
10:19:18 Could you put that other one back up for one second?
10:19:21 And could you zoom in, use that device, Roy, and zoom
10:19:27 in on the corner.
10:19:28 I want to know how confusing this is to you guys as
10:19:31 you are driving down the street and you look at those.
10:19:33 And it gets a little blurry.
10:19:36 Can you read what the bottom one says?
10:19:38 Because it's blurry.
10:19:42 >>> Basically there's three messages.
10:19:45 Storm surgeon sign.
10:19:47 It reflects the category level that would be affecting
10:19:50 that particular signage.
10:19:52 And the height of the storm surge proposed at that
10:19:57 particular level.
10:19:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And if I could.

10:19:59 And I am not going to, you know, beat a dead horse too
10:20:02 much.
10:20:02 But it's not a laughing matter.
10:20:05 And we all love humor but it's not a laughing matter.
10:20:08 And this is not confusing to me.
10:20:09 You are driving down Dale Mabry and you come to Euclid
10:20:12 and you look over and you see this pole.
10:20:14 Okay?
10:20:15 I don't believe it takes a brain surgeon to say, you
10:20:18 know, that category 2 for all of us who listen to the
10:20:22 news and listen to the chief and we all talk about
10:20:25 category 2, category 3, you know, 10 feet and that
10:20:29 sort of thing, that plus a little bit of publicity
10:20:31 when these signs go out -- and I'm not talking about
10:20:34 putting these on every corner.
10:20:35 I'm talking about as a start just putting two or three
10:20:38 or four of these out in the major intersections of the
10:20:41 city.
10:20:43 There is no history on this to say this works, or
10:20:45 doesn't work.
10:20:46 Chief, I mean, this is the only example that anybody
10:20:49 can come up with about, you know, the use of this --

10:20:54 (Bell sounds).
10:20:54 Was over in this one municipality in Hillsborough
10:20:56 County.
10:20:57 I don't know if this is what Hillsborough County did,
10:20:59 was it?
10:21:00 >>> No, sir.
10:21:00 >> No, not at all.
10:21:01 There's no history to say this worked or didn't work.
10:21:03 I think it's folly on our part to stick our head in
10:21:06 the ground and say we should be worried about Chamber
10:21:08 of Commerce issues, because you know what?
10:21:10 That's what's addressed on page 3 of the memo, that
10:21:14 people might be concerned about the negative impact on
10:21:15 their property values, et cetera, et cetera.
10:21:17 I don't think, chief, that's what you're worried
10:21:20 about.
10:21:20 You're not worried about real estate values and
10:21:22 Chamber of Commerce issues.
10:21:23 You're worried about public safety.
10:21:26 And a sign like this is informative.
10:21:28 It's not expensive.
10:21:30 We have a city sign department that could slap these

10:21:32 up for $100.
10:21:37 Because we make signs day in and day out.
10:21:41 >> There is expense in materials.
10:21:42 And Roy is the expert to speak to the expense.
10:21:45 But in order to send an effective message, you saw the
10:21:49 picture on the peninsula.
10:21:52 There's a lot of roads with a lot of major
10:21:54 intersections and would require a lot of signs.
10:21:56 >> If you wanted to go that route.
10:21:58 But I'm saying you start off small and do it on an
10:22:00 informative basis on the major roads.
10:22:03 >>> And if I was going to present an emergency
10:22:05 management awareness message, I would want it to be as
10:22:08 comprehensive as possible.
10:22:09 And, again, I believe that it's cost prohibitive in
10:22:14 order for to the be effective, based on the numbers
10:22:16 that I've seen, just for the materials.
10:22:19 And storm surge is not a clearly defined -- all this
10:22:24 gives you is an elevation at a point.
10:22:26 Storm surge is not clearly defined.
10:22:28 That's all spelled out in the several memos that you
10:22:30 have seen.

10:22:32 But the angle of the storm, side of the storm, all
10:22:36 those things have an effect.
10:22:38 So we believe if we had that amount of money to put
10:22:40 signs up, we could put it to better use through other
10:22:43 educational means.
10:22:44 That's our opinion.
10:22:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Chief, I agree with you.
10:22:48 You have done this for how many years?
10:22:50 I know you know what is best for this community and
10:22:52 you say we could use that money for something else.
10:22:54 I agree with you with that.
10:22:56 I think we can use it for a better use.
10:22:59 People don't like signs all the time.
10:23:01 You can see how confusing some signs are.
10:23:04 When you drive along you are not going to be watching
10:23:05 for a sign that says storm surge or whatever surge it
10:23:09 is.
10:23:09 You are going to be looking for what you are looking
10:23:10 for an not looking for that sign.
10:23:12 So we should not waste the money.
10:23:15 Put to the a better use like you say and make it work
10:23:18 for the community.

10:23:19 Ms. Mulhern.
10:23:21 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to make analogy to
10:23:24 campaigning, where people say that yard signs don't
10:23:33 work.
10:23:35 To get a message out to people it has to be targeted.
10:23:37 And, you know, scattering a few signs around an area
10:23:42 is not going to get to the people in the specific
10:23:45 areas that need to get out.
10:23:47 So I agree with the chief that we need a more
10:23:52 comprehensive.
10:23:53 The money would be better spent on getting to the
10:23:55 exact people that need to know when they need to get
10:23:58 out.
10:23:58 And I also think that this is better spent on an
10:24:01 emergency timing, that the time when we are faced with
10:24:05 those emergencies in the hurricane season, that's when
10:24:09 the notification, education, and the money should be
10:24:13 for evacuation and actually dealing with the
10:24:14 emergency.
10:24:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, chief.
10:24:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I would like to make a motion to
10:24:22 direct legal to prepare an ordinance that would create

10:24:26 this type of sign on a very preliminary basis, perhaps
10:24:29 starting out with three or four poles on the major
10:24:33 intersections.
10:24:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion dies for lack of second.
10:24:39 Thank you, chief, for coming.
10:24:40 Thank you, Mr. LaMotte.
10:24:42 We go to item number 5.
10:24:44 We received a memo from Ms. Miller.
10:24:47 Did you want to receive and file?
10:24:50 >> So moved.
10:24:51 >> Second.
10:24:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Receive and file item number 5.
10:24:54 (Motion carried).
10:25:01 >>> I'm here for item number 6.
10:25:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
10:25:11 Cindy Miller, director of growth management
10:25:13 development services.
10:25:14 And although this agenda item refers to Sharon west,
10:25:18 our housing manager to appear, I believe that the
10:25:21 issues that give rise to this motion receive some
10:25:26 tenure with the city and it is a time period that I am
10:25:29 very familiar with.

10:25:29 This was a request for information as to how many
10:25:34 allocated for housing in fiscal year 2005.
10:25:38 I believe in order to see how allocation of funds the
10:25:40 last few years have gone we need to have a little bit
10:25:42 of history and look at how things are going.
10:25:45 Elmo, please.
10:25:59 This is the ship funding.
10:26:01 I think you can see the commitment or the amount
10:26:03 spent.
10:26:03 We have been doing pretty good on that.
10:26:05 That has been a variety of pursuance, whether it's
10:26:07 multifamily or other purposes that we have utilized
10:26:10 this source of funding for.
10:26:22 And let me move this up.
10:26:28 When it comes to the federal programs we have not done
10:26:30 as good a job.
10:26:32 Let me tell you.
10:26:33 When it comes to the housing division and our housing
10:26:36 program, I don't think I have to go back into the
10:26:38 history of the early 2000 period to talk to you about
10:26:43 some of the challenges, some of the difficulties that
10:26:47 that division faced over the years.

10:26:49 Starting in roughly 2003, we suspended the program,
10:26:53 and it stayed suspended until 2004 when Mr. Greg
10:26:58 Spearman took over on a temporary basis.
10:27:01 And we do -- I think as you can see in 2007 started to
10:27:06 see some real activity.
10:27:08 But I want to show you in my next slide the real
10:27:11 reason why we had such a slowdown.
10:27:23 I can tell you from my experience with the city, the
10:27:26 past ten years, the various questions that arose at
10:27:29 various time periods during various audits, whether it
10:27:32 came from internal audit or from external auditors, as
10:27:35 well as HUD monitors and HUD auditors.
10:27:39 We are starting in the last couple of years to give
10:27:41 clean opinions.
10:27:42 That took a lot of work on the part of revenue and
10:27:44 finance, and the housing division, and our department
10:27:47 as a whole working with the other departments around
10:27:50 the city.
10:27:52 The sad story that this slide shows is how much money
10:27:55 the City of Tampa has had to return to HUD for the
10:28:00 home expenditures, and for CDBG expenditures that
10:28:05 occurred from 1995 to 2002 in the case of homes, in

10:28:10 1997 to 2002 in the case of CDBG.
10:28:16 This is because of lack of accountability, lack of
10:28:19 records, and various concerns that were raised as to
10:28:23 how moneys were spent during that time period.
10:28:26 Think of what our community could have done with this
10:28:29 additional 4.3, almost 4.4 million dollars.
10:28:33 During the last four years, we at the City of Tampa
10:28:37 have had to get the accountability and the integrity
10:28:42 of our programs back so that we can be guaranteed
10:28:46 future funding at both the federal and state
10:28:48 governments.
10:28:48 This is a story I have not shared with you before
10:28:51 because I think we finally have gotten there.
10:28:54 When you talk to the external auditors, when you see
10:28:57 the reports they have delivered recently, the housing
10:29:00 division is back on track.
10:29:01 We look forward to the workshop in May, where we can
10:29:04 really show to you what we are working on, what the
10:29:09 excellent work that the housing division is starting
10:29:11 to do, working with our other colleagues in revenue
10:29:14 and finance, and I look forward to that opportunity to
10:29:16 be able to really say, here we are finally getting

10:29:21 started.
10:29:21 So thank you for letting me talk to you a little bit
10:29:24 on a slightly broader topic, but this is the reason
10:29:27 why our 2005 fiscal year moneys were not as
10:29:32 effectively used.
10:29:34 They will be used.
10:29:35 We intend to move them into programs that we can
10:29:37 utilize for our community.
10:29:38 And we intend to go forward on a very brisk basis in
10:29:41 the future.
10:29:42 But this is the kind of diversion of human resources
10:29:46 that we had to contend with the last few years.
10:29:50 And we hope that we are able to do a much better job
10:29:52 for our community.
10:29:53 And I want to congratulate and thank Sharon west as
10:29:56 the division manager for getting the integrity back
10:29:58 into the program.
10:29:59 Thank you.
10:30:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Madam Chair and council
10:30:03 members.
10:30:03 Let me just say to Ms. Miller, also on the affordable
10:30:08 housing task force, as you know, Ms. West was the

10:30:11 representative from the city, and I appreciate her so
10:30:16 very much.
10:30:17 Also a forwarded the county and city an opportunity to
10:30:22 work together and they are doing that and that
10:30:23 relationship should continue, because the people
10:30:25 really need this being served.
10:30:29 With that, the cap for the Sadowski act, how much of
10:30:37 that if the cap was removed from Tallahassee, how much
10:30:39 of that money would the city realize?
10:30:42 I know the county would get in excess of about an
10:30:45 additional $20 million but the city --
10:30:49 >>> I know it's a million.
10:30:51 I can call my staff and see what analysis.
10:30:53 I can get that you information before the morning is
10:30:56 out.
10:30:56 Because we do know it would be an extensive amount of
10:30:59 funds that we would be able to utilize.
10:31:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Which would help significantly.
10:31:05 The residents of the City of Tampa, and which would
10:31:08 have affordable housing.
10:31:11 That's why the Sadowski act was created.
10:31:14 >>> Absolutely.

10:31:15 >> And has a cap on it in Tallahassee.
10:31:19 But thank you, to you and Mrs. West.
10:31:21 It's unfortunate we had to send back 4-point something
10:31:25 million dollars.
10:31:26 It's so needed in this community.
10:31:27 But thank you.
10:31:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Other questions by council members?
10:31:29 Thank you, Ms. Miller.
10:31:31 We appreciate that.
10:31:32 Item number 7.
10:31:36 Is anyone here to talk about -- Mr. LaMotte.
10:31:39 >>ROY LAMOTTE: Good morning, I'm here to update you on
10:31:43 the TC Choy issue.
10:31:47 I am going to ask for the Elmo to be turned on again,
10:31:49 just to familiarize yourself with it.
10:31:51 Again, this is Platt Street east and west, Howard
10:31:58 street north and south, and TC Choy to the west in
10:32:02 front of their parking lot.
10:32:04 The issue at hand that you had asked us to address was
10:32:10 this wall that passes through, and it actually
10:32:14 prevents pedestrians from approaching the
10:32:16 intersection.

10:32:20 This is the area that's in question as it comes up,
10:32:24 approaches the intersection.
10:32:26 Has pedestrian indications here on a crosswalk.
10:32:30 We did have discussion with Mr. Griffin who is here
10:32:36 today as well representing his Clint and he raised the
10:32:39 question about connectivity for this area.
10:32:41 Because there is no sidewalk to the west of the
10:32:43 location.
10:32:45 And if I go back to the Elmo again, the area that we
10:32:47 are talking about directly in front of this parking
10:32:50 lot.
10:32:50 I am going to show you two other photographs, not to
10:32:53 bore you today, but they will explain the situation
10:32:55 further.
10:32:56 As you can see, the walkway leading up from the
10:32:59 pedestrian proceeding through into the walkway,
10:33:02 there's a small section of sidewalk here joining to
10:33:05 the driveway.
10:33:06 However, just to the west of that location, there is
10:33:10 no sidewalk preceding down the street.
10:33:14 And actually what you see is some landscaping, some
10:33:17 sprinkler heads.

10:33:18 And what Mr. Gleckman asks on behalf of his clients if
10:33:23 they make the improvements is the city willing to bone
10:33:26 up to the issue of installing a crosswalk -- I should
10:33:30 say a sidewalk to the west.
10:33:31 We evaluated that and we did put a $25,000 cost on
10:33:34 that improvement.
10:33:37 We were willing to move forward that the upcoming
10:33:38 year, but he also questioned the amount of land to be
10:33:41 able to do that, because of a previous survey he had
10:33:44 on a piece of paper that was done when they
10:33:47 constructed the parking lot, actually showed us about
10:33:51 3 feet 3 inches left in the right-of-way.
10:33:53 I have asked our city surveyor to verify that
10:33:56 particular measurement and give us a line of
10:33:58 demarcation, and I believe they are doing that this
10:34:01 week for the weeks out.
10:34:03 There is also an issue about this particular area
10:34:06 because if you look, there is a storm swale that
10:34:10 exists in here.
10:34:11 There are no existing as-built plans for this
10:34:13 particular area.
10:34:13 It appears that when TC Choy had this area

10:34:18 constructed, the construction -- they did the parking
10:34:22 lot in a swale arrangement, indicated that they went
10:34:25 out of business.
10:34:26 And their plans are nowhere to be found at this time.
10:34:30 Mr. Gleckman assured me he would try to search for
10:34:33 this plan.
10:34:34 But outside of that we were log for the sidewalk.
10:34:36 And our issue here is obviously have connectivity
10:34:39 wherever possible.
10:34:40 We expect to have the issue resolved in the next 60
10:34:43 days to notify both TC Choy of our findings and also
10:34:46 to come back to council and give you final resolution
10:34:50 on this issue.
10:34:52 There are two separate issues but they have
10:34:53 overlapped.
10:34:54 In addition to this, to a portion of the west of the
10:34:57 parking lot.
10:34:58 You are also considering at this time a public -- add
10:35:05 additional sidewalk on this side of the street.
10:35:08 So I just want to give you the full pictures.
10:35:10 I'll take any questions.
10:35:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The issues that I think are so

10:35:14 particularly relevant to the new council members is
10:35:17 this Publix which is going to be built immediately
10:35:20 adjacent to the west, which is anticipating a lot of
10:35:24 pedestrian traffic.
10:35:25 And that was what contained of raised the red flag for
10:35:28 the members of council, is if you got all these folks
10:35:31 walking from Howard, which is a very busy street, to
10:35:35 Publix, that they reach this point of no safe place to
10:35:39 walk, which is very busy one-way street heading
10:35:43 towards them, and that's why we brought it up and I
10:35:48 think it's very important we resolve it to the benefit
10:35:50 of pedestrians.
10:35:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Roy, could you put up the original
10:35:54 picture that shows the -- no, the next one.
10:36:04 It shows the close-up of the overhang.
10:36:08 Our bottom line is if you can point with your pen,
10:36:12 where is the city property?
10:36:16 >>> City property is to the base of the building.
10:36:19 >> That's the bottom line.
10:36:20 The bottom line is that city property, unfortunately
10:36:28 they tack those blocks, what appear to be the red
10:36:31 block out there, and blocked the city right-of-way.

10:36:35 Okay.
10:36:35 This issue of connectivity to me, if it's our
10:36:42 property, we don't have to prove to them what we have
10:36:46 to do on the next block or the block behind it.
10:36:48 It's city property.
10:36:48 It's city right-of-way.
10:36:49 And that's the point.
10:36:52 And we can't have any restaurant or any business just
10:36:56 coming along and blocking city right-of-way because
10:37:03 they want to do X, Y or Z.
10:37:05 It doesn't matter whether this restaurant or any other
10:37:07 business or establishment or individual.
10:37:09 The bottom line, Roy, isn't it our policy to not block
10:37:12 this type of right-of-way?
10:37:15 >>ROY LAMOTTE: It is our policy.
10:37:16 What I would like to share with you is just a plan,
10:37:19 again going to the Elmo.
10:37:20 Maybe I need to stand clarified on that with these
10:37:24 throw two pictures.
10:37:26 That is a picture of the exact corner.
10:37:27 You can see curb line here.
10:37:29 And you can see where the awning comes across here.

10:37:33 Property line here.
10:37:34 And I'll let the proponents defend the issue but again
10:37:41 this was the property line, and again the awning was
10:37:43 permitted by prior City Council action.
10:37:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Excuse me.
10:37:53 >>MARY MULHERN: My question is the sidewalk that we
10:37:55 are talking about, TC Choy is putting in.
10:37:58 Does that mean removing that awning and that porch and
10:38:01 that's where it's going to go?
10:38:04 Or is it going to go closer to the curb and the
10:38:06 street?
10:38:06 >>ROY LAMOTTE: Again we were going to allow the awning
10:38:09 to stay in place and walkway to stay in place.
10:38:12 What we were receiving was comments to allow people to
10:38:15 walk under the structure and just approach the
10:38:17 intersection directly.
10:38:18 >> So essentially that would become the sidewalk?
10:38:21 That would become the path existing?
10:38:25 >>> And I'll explain that rationale.
10:38:26 On the outside on what's in place you see the face of
10:38:31 the curb and then you see the structure that was
10:38:33 created with the awning.

10:38:35 And there's really only three feet that's existing in
10:38:39 this area that's contiguous to the roadway.
10:38:42 And we felt the separation would be safer for people
10:38:44 to walk under the walkway as opposed to being directly
10:38:49 contiguous to the curb.
10:38:51 Platt Street being the height.
10:38:53 >> It looks like they have got the low wall.
10:38:56 And isn't this elevated?
10:39:00 >>> I think I can explain that a little bit.
10:39:02 The elevation is extremely minor.
10:39:04 If you actually look at the construction in these
10:39:06 blocks that were put in to create this retaining wall,
10:39:09 it's my contention they are actually sitting on top of
10:39:12 the sidewalk.
10:39:12 And I don't know if the sidewalk was ever removed
10:39:15 there, because I couldn't tell you without probing
10:39:18 into this area.
10:39:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Madam Chairman.
10:39:23 What is on the east side of that crosswalk there where
10:39:27 the property ends?
10:39:28 In other words, is it some stop signalization, or
10:39:34 something to do with another city department or

10:39:36 something?
10:39:36 Just to the east?
10:39:43 >>> Talking about the other part --
10:39:45 >> No, no, to the best of where you are at.
10:39:47 All the property.
10:39:47 Keep going to my right all the way right.
10:39:51 On the property on the corner there of the
10:39:53 intersection.
10:39:54 What's at the east of that little -- are people going
10:39:57 to walk the sidewalk, and they go up to the TC Choy
10:40:01 area, and then right there, the little -- what's
10:40:07 there, on the other side?
10:40:08 Any underground public works projects or something
10:40:11 under way?
10:40:13 >>> No, sir.
10:40:14 There are no projects for this area.
10:40:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question for legal.
10:40:20 Ms. Cole?
10:40:21 Ms. Cole?
10:40:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Can't hear you.
10:40:25 She's outside.
10:40:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Well, when she comes back I'll ask

10:40:29 her.
10:40:29 A question about vacation.
10:40:30 Maybe Mr. LaMotte can answer.
10:40:32 And that is, if we have a sidewalk and if somebody
10:40:35 wants to build something on it, don't we have to
10:40:37 vacate it?
10:40:38 >>ROY LAMOTTE: Again, the action that is took place
10:40:43 prior to --
10:40:45 >> What I am concerned about is when we at council saw
10:40:48 the TC Choy plan, I was on council at the time, I
10:40:52 don't remember, and frankly it was seven years ago,
10:40:55 but I don't remember vacating the sidewalk to allow
10:40:57 this building -- and I think that's something maybe
10:41:02 somebody could address.
10:41:03 But particularly in Hyde Park, which is part of our
10:41:09 Hyde Park overlay district, what's it called?
10:41:12 Anyway, the Soho district.
10:41:15 We have this whole component of protection for
10:41:19 pedestrians.
10:41:20 And it would be counterintuitive to vacate -- vacate a
10:41:25 sidewalk when you are trying to encourage pedestrian
10:41:27 activity.

10:41:27 So I would think that the staff would not have
10:41:30 suggested supporting that. Anyway, would like to hear
10:41:33 from our legal department.
10:41:34 Thank you.
10:41:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you want to speak, sir?
10:41:38 >>> If I might.
10:41:39 My name is Gerald McLaughlin, the attorney
10:41:41 representing Choy family.
10:41:43 What Mr. LaMotte was showing you was a survey that I
10:41:46 provided from my client.
10:41:48 And, unfortunately, it misdirected this conversation.
10:41:52 The line that he pointed to originally, and perhaps as
10:41:59 technically challenged as I am, maybe I can clarify
10:42:02 something here, if we can look at the photo.
10:42:05 The line that Mr. LaMotte was pointing to, this line
10:42:10 here, is not the property line.
10:42:13 That's the edge of the building, the restaurant
10:42:15 building.
10:42:16 The property line itself is further to my right.
10:42:20 And it's approximately, according to this survey,
10:42:22 about 3.3 feet to the south of the curb stone of Platt
10:42:29 Street.

10:42:30 So any discussion that's predicate on the assumption
10:42:34 that this sidewalk encroaches into any right-of-way is
10:42:39 misguided.
10:42:44 There was no vacation because there is no need to
10:42:46 vacate any land.
10:42:47 That land actually belongs to the Choy family and is
10:42:50 part of the restaurant.
10:42:51 So the reason for my conversation with Mr. LaMotte,
10:42:56 which I thank him for and I think the city is
10:42:58 responding appropriately to our concerns -- was that
10:43:04 we are talking about granting to the city some
10:43:07 rights-of-way of access across this private property.
10:43:10 The city has not sought to take the property by
10:43:13 eminent domain.
10:43:14 And I don't think that serves anyone's interest.
10:43:17 So, again, I began the discussion with the
10:43:19 understanding that that sidewalk belongs to the Choy
10:43:23 family, is part of the restaurant design, it was all
10:43:26 properly permitted, properly constructed on the Choy's
10:43:30 property.
10:43:30 But my clients, being concerned citizens and
10:43:36 pressuring the city's support of their efforts in

10:43:38 their restaurant and other projects, wanted me to talk
10:43:42 with Mr. LaMotte to see if we could arrive at some
10:43:45 accommodation, so that pedestrians could use the
10:43:48 sidewalk that belongs to the Choy family.
10:43:52 Our first concern is the fact that this sidewalk at
10:43:55 this point was constructed with a very specific
10:43:59 purpose in mind, and that was to get pedestrian
10:44:01 traffic from the parking lot that serve it is
10:44:04 restaurant, which is behind and to the west of the
10:44:07 restaurant, from the parking lot around to the front
10:44:10 door of the restaurant.
10:44:12 It was never intended to be part of any larger
10:44:16 circulation of pedestrian traffic.
10:44:19 At the point when the restaurant was constructed in
10:44:20 the early 2000 period, there was no purpose to be
10:44:26 served.
10:44:27 Since that time, as you were told earlier, there is a
10:44:30 developer who has worked diligently.
10:44:34 The block to the west of my client's property.
10:44:36 And they are planning to construct a Publix
10:44:40 supermarket on that property.
10:44:41 The site plans that they have shared with us indicate

10:44:44 that they will be adding sidewalk on the south side of
10:44:50 Platt street to the west of where we were talking
10:44:53 about.
10:44:53 And so the beginning point in my discussion with Mr.
10:44:56 LaMotte was connecting the Publix sidewalk to the
10:45:01 sidewalk that belongs to the Choy family so there
10:45:05 would be some meaningful pedestrian flow, if that does
10:45:09 develop, because of the Publix development.
10:45:12 I also want council to understand that there is
10:45:15 perhaps a slightly more complicated set of
10:45:17 circumstances that my clients are dealing with, that
10:45:21 they are aware of and that we want the city to be
10:45:23 aware of, so that we can promote the best continuing
10:45:27 development in that neighborhood.
10:45:30 My clients have a contract with the developers of
10:45:33 Publix that calls for two construction projects that
10:45:39 impact this sidewalk issue.
10:45:43 One is the drainage that you were shown in the
10:45:46 photograph, those drainage swales to the west of the
10:45:50 parking lot and to the north of the parking lot.
10:45:52 Those are open catchment areas that SWFWMD required my
10:45:58 clients to construct as part of the plan to get

10:46:01 approval for their restaurant.
10:46:03 We have been working with Publix on the notion that
10:46:07 any sort of exposed drainage is not the best option,
10:46:10 not the best plan, and so our understanding with
10:46:13 Publix by contract is that they will attempt to obtain
10:46:17 approval from SWFWMD, and I understand they have also
10:46:21 been working with city officials to put that drainage
10:46:24 system underground, on the west side of the property,
10:46:27 and on the north side of the property.
10:46:31 The impact that that has on the sidewalk is depending
10:46:39 on what Mr. LaMotte describes as a survey that he has
10:46:43 conducted.
10:46:44 It should have occurred to you from what I said
10:46:46 earlier that he and I are not exactly on the same page
10:46:49 as to where the right-of-way line is for Platt Street.
10:46:53 According to our survey, there's only about three feet
10:46:55 of land between our boundary and the existing curb
10:47:01 stone.
10:47:01 Mr. LaMotte tells me that he needs at least five feet
10:47:05 to do a sidewalk in that area.
10:47:09 We are concerned now that if it does require five
10:47:13 feet, and getting everything connected, so that the

10:47:17 sidewalk will go from the corner of Howard and Platt
10:47:20 all the way to the corner of Platt and Armenia, we are
10:47:26 going to have some potential impact and some potential
10:47:30 problems with that drainage.
10:47:36 If our agreement with Publix can bring that drainage
10:47:39 underground so we don't have to maintain if surface we
10:47:41 have now that gives souse flexibility to work with Mr.
10:47:43 LaMotte if the surveys verify what our surveyors are
10:47:47 telling us, which is that there isn't enough room for
10:47:49 sidewalks.
10:47:50 Publix has also agreed to build a wall on the west and
10:47:56 north sides of our parking lot.
10:47:58 Those of you who are familiar with the area may
10:48:00 remember that there's a very decorative, Oriental
10:48:03 theme, duration theme sign on that corner of moody and
10:48:07 Platt.
10:48:08 We are planning to bring that around the entire
10:48:12 exterior of the parking lot, and that of course, along
10:48:16 that south side of Platt, is going to impact where
10:48:19 sidewalks can be located, and what sort of landscaping
10:48:23 can be done.
10:48:25 We also have two other issues that impact on this

10:48:29 discussion, at least from my client's perspective.
10:48:33 One is an attempt to vacate the right-of-way at moody
10:48:38 street, which runs between our parking lot and what
10:48:40 will be the Publix project.
10:48:43 Publix wants that vacated so that they can build in
10:48:47 effect a private driveway, which will access their
10:48:49 parking structure on the east side of their project.
10:48:57 That also as I understand from last week is impacting
10:48:59 the drainage plan that we have, because the city
10:49:01 apparently has told the Publix developers that the
10:49:09 first plan proposed under moody, to connect our swale
10:49:13 with their stormwater system, would not be permitted
10:49:16 as long as moody is a public right-of-way.
10:49:18 So that's an issue that as you can see comes back on
10:49:22 the question of what we are going to be able to do
10:49:24 with the swale and whether there's going to be enough
10:49:26 room for the sidewalk.
10:49:28 Another issue of concern to my clients is the alleyway
10:49:32 that runs between their parking lot and their
10:49:35 restaurant.
10:49:35 I think they have been here before the commission
10:49:39 before council, and Mr. Michelini, I think, has

10:49:41 presented some concerns about traffic safety because
10:49:45 unfortunately in the evenings when people had a few to
10:49:49 drink they used that alleyway, and pose sod pedestrian
10:49:56 danger for my client's customers who come from the
10:50:00 parking lot into the restaurant.
10:50:02 That alleyway empties on the north side of the block
10:50:07 into Platt Street, and that's where the sidewalk ends.
10:50:11 So we think that whatever ultimately develops along
10:50:15 the south side of Platt Street in the way of
10:50:18 pedestrian traffic is going to have to take into
10:50:19 account the risks and dangers associated with that
10:50:22 alleyway.
10:50:23 So with that, I want to thank Mr. LaMotte.
10:50:26 We had a very productive meeting.
10:50:27 I think the city in the person of Mr. LaMotte is
10:50:33 showing concern and flexibility, and I think we will
10:50:36 probably get all of these loose ends and connections
10:50:42 tied together.
10:50:43 I can't tell you when right now.
10:50:45 I am somewhat at the mercy of Publix and their
10:50:48 development process.
10:50:48 But I wanted the council to be fully informed as to

10:50:52 all of the factors that are going into these
10:50:54 discussions.
10:50:56 I don't want to disappoint anybody.
10:50:58 And I don't expect we will.
10:50:59 But it may not be as quick and easy as Mr. LaMotte's
10:51:04 memo suggested.
10:51:08 If you have questions I would be glad to answer if I
10:51:10 can.
10:51:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This is very informative.
10:51:13 Would you say 90 days we should be able to hear back
10:51:16 from you?
10:51:21 >> You can hear back from me this afternoon.
10:51:23 Unfortunately I won't have anything to tell you until
10:51:25 Publix tells me what they are going to be able to do
10:51:27 with that drainage system.
10:51:29 And the last word I heard from their counsel was that
10:51:33 they were proceeding with the plan based on the
10:51:37 suggestions that they were going to have to achieve a
10:51:39 vacation of the right-of-way at moody street.
10:51:42 I don't know what the city's position has been in
10:51:45 preliminary discussions.
10:51:47 I have heard that some of the neighbors, I guess there

10:51:53 are three adjacent property owners, my client, and --
10:51:56 >> I'm just trying to get a date.
10:51:58 I don't need all of the --
10:52:00 >>> I'm sorry.
10:52:00 The answer is I don't know.
10:52:01 Until Publix tells me, I can't tell you.
10:52:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. LaMotte, when do you think we
10:52:07 can hear back from you or from someone?
10:52:12 Would five months be an appropriate amount of time?
10:52:15 Give me a date.
10:52:15 >>ROY LAMOTTE: I believe that 90 days would be
10:52:18 appropriate to hear back.
10:52:19 We had the discussion, also had the vacate issue
10:52:22 addressed before that point in time.
10:52:23 >>STEVE MICHELINI: The vacating is going to show up
10:52:28 here on May 3rd so we are going to be asking for
10:52:30 that to be continued so all these matters can be
10:52:32 brought to you at one time, instead of being done
10:52:35 piecemeal.
10:52:36 We'll be working with the staff.
10:52:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to continue until June
10:52:41 21st under staff report.

10:52:44 >> Second.
10:52:44 (Motion carried).
10:52:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:52:48 Item number 8.
10:52:49 We need to receive and file the memo.
10:52:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So moved.
10:52:53 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
10:52:55 (Motion carried).
10:52:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Curtis Lane from code enforcement.
10:53:14 >>CURTIS LANE: Department of code enforcement.
10:53:16 Welcome to the new members of council.
10:53:20 My pleasure.
10:53:22 What's being circulated to you as we speak is a copy
10:53:24 of the memorandum that was received and filed last
10:53:29 week concerning our code compliance of historic
10:53:34 buildings, in the central business district.
10:53:37 I'm happy to report at this time that as we speak, the
10:53:41 12 buildings that we have under violation have been
10:53:45 secured to ground level.
10:53:47 However, it doesn't mean that we are not concerned
10:53:51 about those windows on upper levels of the buildings
10:53:54 that are open.

10:53:56 Specifically, the Kress building, I noticed the west
10:54:02 side of the building there are numerous windows that
10:54:04 are still not up to code.
10:54:05 Also, by the Tampa Theatre.
10:54:08 There are windows that are open.
10:54:10 One building, the old hub building that's located just
10:54:15 to the north of -- those are still not fixed so
10:54:22 obviously those buildings are still in the code
10:54:25 enforcement violation process at various stages.
10:54:27 Now, that being said, we want to go on record, and we
10:54:32 want to let the owners of those buildings know that
10:54:35 they need to step up, take responsibility for their
10:54:38 buildings, keep their buildings up to code, keep their
10:54:42 buildings secured.
10:54:44 We don't want penetration from the bottom floors.
10:54:50 That's where they are doing some unauthorized visitors
10:54:54 as we call them, going through the buildings and doing
10:54:56 their deeds.
10:54:57 So what we are going to do is this: If we see a
10:55:02 building that is open and of an exigent nature and is
10:55:09 of a health issue we are going to order that building
10:55:12 secured.

10:55:13 And when we do that, we are going to send the own a
10:55:17 bill.
10:55:17 If you do not pay, we will lien your property.
10:55:22 We mean business.
10:55:23 We are not going to tolerate this.
10:55:25 We want to preserve what we have in that district.
10:55:28 And we are going to continue to be vigilant.
10:55:30 We have an inspector that's assigned to the downtown
10:55:33 area.
10:55:34 That's his responsibility.
10:55:35 And he will monitor that situation on that daily
10:55:40 basis.
10:55:40 Also, we have collaborated with the police department
10:55:44 on routine patrol, if they see a building open they
10:55:47 will let us know what's going on.
10:55:49 So it's a concerted effort.
10:55:51 In a one department or one person can deal with this.
10:55:54 So we have really been on top of it.
10:55:56 We will continue to be on top of this issue until we
10:55:59 reach full compliance.
10:56:00 And we want our owners to do two things.
10:56:05 Be good neighbors, and be in compliance.

10:56:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:56:09 That was an excellent report.
10:56:10 You have given us very thorough picture of the
10:56:13 building.
10:56:13 My concern is this: Those two fires endangered -- not
10:56:19 only destroyed two significant historic buildings but
10:56:22 they endangered all their neighbors.
10:56:24 In fact one caused the other building to burn.
10:56:26 We are looking at the Kress building which is
10:56:28 protected, the Tampa Theatre building which is
10:56:30 protected, and we both discussed the fact that the
10:56:34 property owners have not done an adequate job in terms
10:56:38 of securing their building.
10:56:41 Council members, you all received letters from
10:56:43 Christine Burdick, head of the downtown partnership
10:56:47 and Brenda van Doran who spoke this morning who is
10:56:51 head of the North Franklin group.
10:56:53 They are so upset, because we are at risk of losing
10:56:57 our historic fabric, because of property owners who
10:57:00 are not responsible.
10:57:02 And what I would like to do is make a motion -- and I
10:57:05 think code enforcement, you have done a great job.

10:57:08 But I guess my motion is for legal, to see -- to
10:57:12 investigate what other cities have done, to take
10:57:14 people who are just allowing historic buildings to be
10:57:20 demolished by neglect, and what additional remedies we
10:57:24 the city can have to get these people to either fix up
10:57:27 their buildings or sell them or allow us to do
10:57:30 something to protect them.
10:57:31 Because right now our job is not adequate.
10:57:35 It pains me to see the window across the street from
10:57:37 the Tampa Theatre that's open with the tree growing
10:57:39 out of it.
10:57:40 That is not responsible property ownership.
10:57:42 This particular owner has owned this building for 20
10:57:45 years and frankly they need to do something with it.
10:57:50 >>MARY MULHERN: My question is, how did we get to this
10:57:53 point?
10:57:53 I think this is the most depressing thing I have ever
10:57:55 seen, these pictures of downtown Tampa, especially the
10:58:00 empty lots where historic buildings have already been
10:58:03 demolished.
10:58:04 And I've lived in Tampa for ten years.
10:58:09 And the only improvement I've seen in any of these

10:58:12 buildings has been the fact that they are gone.
10:58:15 I mean, these buildings have been deteriorating for a
10:58:19 really long time.
10:58:19 And I think it's great that we are going to, you know,
10:58:22 try to force these owners to be in compliance and to
10:58:25 secure these buildings.
10:58:26 But to me, the question is how did we get here to this
10:58:30 point, where historic buildings through neglect have
10:58:34 had to be demolished, and now are in an insecure state
10:58:40 where -- I don't understand.
10:58:45 I would like to understand how now we are talking
10:58:47 about code enforcement on these buildings, and I don't
10:58:50 know, you know, how long property owners have owned
10:58:54 particular buildings in this grouping of downtown
10:58:57 historic buildings.
10:58:58 But how long have they been in code violation?
10:59:00 And how have we gotten to this point?
10:59:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Decades.
10:59:04 Thank you, Mary.
10:59:05 I have been an advocate as now for historic
10:59:08 preservation for the years and the bottom line is we
10:59:10 have not had an administration and a council that's

10:59:12 been willing to look the property owners square in the
10:59:15 eye and say you have got to do something about it.
10:59:17 It's a knew day.
10:59:18 I have spoken with Mr. Lane.
10:59:19 He had a lot of catching up to do.
10:59:21 He's now at the point of being able to move forward.
10:59:23 I'm thrilled to work in partnership with you.
10:59:26 City legal is revved up. The preservation community
10:59:30 is suggesting that we create a transfer of development
10:59:32 rights provision.
10:59:33 So if somebody can't do something with their building,
10:59:35 it isn't economically feasible, they can sell some of
10:59:38 the development rights potential and make it more
10:59:40 economically feasible.
10:59:41 We have got to get a grip before we lose any more
10:59:44 buildings.
10:59:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This is a question I have that's two
10:59:49 fold.
10:59:50 Code enforcement they assess fines on these owners who
10:59:57 are not up to code.
10:59:58 So I need to know what are the fines on these
11:00:02 buildings?

11:00:10 >>> There are in a fines yet.
11:00:12 >> Pardon me?
11:00:12 >>> There are no fines yet.
11:00:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me understand the city then, you
11:00:17 mean you don't fine owners when they don't take care
11:00:21 of property?
11:00:22 >>> We have that ability.
11:00:23 These buildings, most of these buildings have been
11:00:26 condemned, and most of these buildings have been in
11:00:29 the system for quite some time.
11:00:32 Once we condemn a building, and the owner comes and
11:00:36 fixes a specific item, and obviously he's in
11:00:41 compliance.
11:00:41 However, the building, the window does break.
11:00:45 Doors do break.
11:00:50 Folks kick in doors.
11:00:51 When they do that, we started the violation process
11:00:55 all over again.
11:00:57 The bottom line, Reverend Scott, the bottom line is
11:01:04 owner responsibility.
11:01:05 We can fine all we want.
11:01:06 But until such time as the owner steps up to the plate

11:01:11 and takes care of their building we'll be having this
11:01:14 conversation ten years from now.
11:01:15 >> The only problem with that is if there's no
11:01:18 recourse to take action, they are not going to do
11:01:21 anything.
11:01:24 If all the buildings, the city allows that building to
11:01:30 go into deterioration, they have no motivation, no
11:01:34 repercussion, it's just going to sit there.
11:01:36 So we have to carry them through legal action, through
11:01:40 fines, or whatever we need to do to take care of these
11:01:44 historic buildings.
11:01:45 So something has to be done to encourage them to take
11:01:49 action.
11:01:50 Secondly, what about the property taxes on these
11:01:53 buildings?
11:01:58 Does anyone have any information on that?
11:02:01 Are the taxes up to date on these buildings?
11:02:03 Are they being paid?
11:02:10 Can anyone address that?
11:02:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: In other communities, a technique
11:02:16 the cities used to get people to do something with
11:02:18 their property is to ask the tax assessor to assess

11:02:21 them at the value that they are selling, trying to
11:02:23 sell them for, rather than the value that they
11:02:25 currently have.
11:02:26 And that is a strong motivational tool, through the
11:02:30 pocketbook, to get people to do something with it.
11:02:32 We haven't done that.
11:02:33 We can do that.
11:02:34 And I think that would be a smart move.
11:02:37 >> That's why I'm raising these questions.
11:02:39 Because I'm just shocked.
11:02:40 I'm really shocked.
11:02:42 I agree we need to do something.
11:02:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Lane, to secure, in essence
11:02:52 what does that mean?
11:02:53 If the property owner does A, B and C, for the windows
11:02:58 and the doors or does he or she have to put iron
11:03:00 around it? I don't know what that means directly,
11:03:03 sir.
11:03:03 >>CURTIS LANE: What that means is simply this.
11:03:05 Put up something that will keep unwanted unauthorized
11:03:07 persons out.
11:03:08 Whether it be boarding it up to keep folks from just

11:03:11 walking in off the street, keep children from walking
11:03:13 in there.
11:03:14 That does pose a safety issue.
11:03:16 And I'm mostly concerned about health, safety and
11:03:18 welfare.
11:03:19 That's code enforcement's mission: Health, safety and
11:03:23 welfare of our constituents.
11:03:25 So that's what it means.
11:03:26 To put a lock on the doors, keep folks from walking
11:03:32 in, and easy access from the sidewalk and the street.
11:03:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This was on our agenda last week
11:03:40 and was supposed to be just received and filed but you
11:03:42 all indulged me in having it come back so we could
11:03:45 talk about it because this is important.
11:03:46 I have a couple motions I would like to make.
11:03:48 Number one, if the City Council has a budget analyst
11:03:52 we could ask for the budget analyst to work with the
11:03:56 property appraiser to look at this but since we don't,
11:03:59 since we can't make the administration do anything, I
11:04:01 would like to ask that the property appraiser come to
11:04:03 City Council to hear council's concerns about
11:04:08 undervaluing this property, and ask them to work with

11:04:11 us to develop something that could provide a financial
11:04:14 incentive for property owners to do something with
11:04:16 their property.
11:04:18 Probably in three weeks.
11:04:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let me speak to that because that's
11:04:27 a broad motion that means that if a property owner,
11:04:31 the way it was stated, is a residential property
11:04:33 owner, that means that property owner can't pay the
11:04:38 upkeep of the house because he or she having
11:04:42 difficulty times -- just a second, I didn't interrupt
11:04:44 you.
11:04:46 Thank you very much.
11:04:47 That property owner will have to borrow money, do
11:04:51 whatever he or she has to do, and this marketplace
11:04:54 that they don't have -- and I'm talking about the
11:04:57 middle class individual.
11:04:59 And if we are saying we are going to appraise it at
11:05:03 what it's going to sell for, I bought my house for
11:05:06 12400.
11:05:07 I guess it's worth over 300.
11:05:10 I have been paying the tax on it every year.
11:05:12 So are they going to tax me additional because I

11:05:15 bought it for 12-three?
11:05:17 I don't understand that.
11:05:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: May I clarify my motion?
11:05:28 >> I yield.
11:05:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I am very sorry, Mr. Miranda.
11:05:32 I was not specific enough.
11:05:33 My motion was to have the property appraiser come over
11:05:36 here to discuss the ten properties before us today.
11:05:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Comes over and what is he going to tell
11:05:47 us?
11:05:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No, no.
11:05:49 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I'm sorry to interrupt.
11:05:54 I have a specific concern when you as a legislative
11:05:57 body invite Constitutional officer or state officer to
11:06:01 come in and talk about specific property.
11:06:03 If you want to talk in generalities, if you want to
11:06:05 talk from a policy maker's perspective, to invite him,
11:06:09 obviously he's not required to attend, he would need
11:06:12 advance notice to attend, he would have the
11:06:14 opportunity to choose when to attend, and assuming
11:06:17 that he does, I would ask that you discuss it on the
11:06:19 basis of a broad public policy basis.

11:06:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: To rephrase it yet again in a
11:06:26 policy way to discuss urban historic property which
11:06:29 has been under code enforcement citation with an eye
11:06:33 toward ways that he could collaborate with the city to
11:06:38 incent the property, to raise the value to the point
11:06:42 where the property owners would do something with the
11:06:44 property.
11:06:45 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Property appraiser cannot come
11:06:47 and assess the property.
11:06:48 What it's going to sell for.
11:06:49 The only time you can establish that is once it's
11:06:54 sold, and these what makes the market.
11:06:55 That would be illegal and he would not commit himself
11:06:58 to that.
11:06:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:06:59 Okay.
11:07:01 Mr. Scott.
11:07:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me just say to council members.
11:07:04 I'm a firm believer of getting information.
11:07:07 And what I hear here is I'm seeking information so we
11:07:11 can make a sound, prudent decision how to proceed to
11:07:13 address the problem at hand.

11:07:16 I'm a believer to get information, then you can make a
11:07:18 decision.
11:07:19 So whatever measure we need, and council, if you help
11:07:22 us -- counsel, if you help us, how do we get some
11:07:26 information, I am not talking about raising property
11:07:31 taxes and all that.
11:07:32 I'm saying, how do we get the information to help
11:07:37 proceed and look at what options we have to address
11:07:39 the issue of these code enforcement violations and all
11:07:44 that?
11:07:44 >>GWEN MILLER: He has given up some options.
11:07:51 He hasn't given us a chance of what it's going to
11:07:53 work.
11:07:56 >>> I've stated earlier that if the owners do not
11:08:00 comply with our orders, then we will take care of what
11:08:05 the problems are.
11:08:06 Now, the buildings have been standing for years and
11:08:09 years and years.
11:08:09 And just because the buildings are standing, if they
11:08:13 aren't any walls caving in or if there aren't any
11:08:18 signs that are falling, if they are falling on folks,
11:08:21 and if they shore up those buildings, secure the

11:08:25 doors, fix the windows, they are in compliance with
11:08:27 code.
11:08:28 They are in compliance with chapter 19.
11:08:30 Code enforcement.
11:08:31 They are in compliance.
11:08:32 Now, because the building has been there, and it
11:08:35 looked to be in a deteriorating state, it may need
11:08:38 painting or something like that, it doesn't mean that
11:08:41 they are not in compliance.
11:08:44 So what I'm saying is that if they are not in
11:08:47 compliance per our chapters that we are governed by,
11:08:53 we will take care of whatever problem that is, we will
11:08:56 order the folks to correct the.
11:09:01 If they don't, we will.
11:09:02 We will send them the bill. If they don't pay then we
11:09:04 will lien their property.
11:09:06 That's the arm that we have as far as code enforcement
11:09:11 is concerned.
11:09:11 Now building with the old building because of age,
11:09:13 because of longevity, because it's been there a long
11:09:16 time, that's not a code issue.
11:09:22 >>MARY MULHERN: I think we are talking about more than

11:09:24 code violations, and this has gone beyond your doing
11:09:28 what you can, and it's clear that you are doing that.
11:09:32 But we are talking about historic preservation and
11:09:34 talking about economic development from what I can
11:09:36 see.
11:09:36 We need to find a way to not allow this great resource
11:09:41 of historic buildings in our downtown to continue to
11:09:45 deteriorate.
11:09:46 And it sounds like code enforcement is doing what you
11:09:49 need to do.
11:09:49 But we need to find other avenues, and I agree with
11:09:52 Linda and Tom that we should invite the property
11:09:57 appraiser to speak with us and advise us, and what we
11:10:02 can do from that, if there is anything that we can do.
11:10:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm getting mixed signals from
11:10:10 myself to the fact we started with code enforcement,
11:10:14 which I understand, and I appreciate from my
11:10:16 colleagues, Ms. Saul-Sena and Scott.
11:10:18 However, I'm troubled by the fact that we are going to
11:10:24 ask now for if you don't develop your building we are
11:10:31 going to raise your tax and that's in essence what's
11:10:34 coming if I read between the lines.

11:10:35 That's the part that's troubling to me.
11:10:37 I agree with Curtis Lane, the director of enforcement
11:10:43 of what his plan is to make sure they are boarded up
11:10:45 one way or the other and if they don't they get
11:10:48 notified and if they have the notification a certain
11:10:51 time certain, that notification is to carry out the
11:10:53 order, then something is done by the city.
11:10:55 I do not agree with the property in telling somebody
11:11:00 if you don't do this and build on it now or repair it
11:11:02 now, I'm going to tax you again.
11:11:05 And that's the issue that I'm wrestling with.
11:11:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Madam Chair, with all due respect, my
11:11:14 issue was not raising tax.
11:11:17 My issue wags information and looking at all the
11:11:19 options that you may have.
11:11:20 One of the things of making a good decision, consider
11:11:23 all the options.
11:11:24 I believe in that.
11:11:25 That's number one.
11:11:26 Number two is, I just find it very interesting that we
11:11:29 have buildings downtown, or else we wouldn't be here
11:11:33 today talking about this, that are in severe

11:11:36 condition, deteriorated condition, and we are
11:11:40 discussing them, and you all are telling me that
11:11:42 really there's no issue because code has taken care of
11:11:44 that.
11:11:45 Then what are we talking about?
11:11:50 If they have met the standard and met the code, then I
11:11:53 just find it interesting that out in the residential
11:11:55 community where I live in East Tampa, poor people code
11:12:02 enforcement come out over and over and over, and I
11:12:04 know this, and put pressure on.
11:12:09 But right here in downtown Tampa, we have got
11:12:11 buildings.
11:12:14 There's something wrong with that.
11:12:18 >>GWEN MILLER: We can address it but I think what's
11:12:22 the confusion to me, I don't know what this problem,
11:12:25 if the building is there and not being used.
11:12:29 I don't see what -- he can't raise my taxes.
11:12:35 That's the confusing thing to me.
11:12:36 What can he tell bus a building that's been there for
11:12:39 many, many years and is now not used and code
11:12:44 enforcement is trying to do something?
11:12:46 I don't see what he can sigh.

11:12:48 Mrs. Saul-Sena?
11:12:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think that I will withdraw my
11:12:51 motion, and I have a great idea.
11:12:55 There's an economist named Don Ricama in the historic
11:13:00 preservation who has worked all over the country who
11:13:03 can come here and tell us what carrots we have to get
11:13:09 this off the dime and I will investigate what it would
11:13:12 take to get him here.
11:13:13 Because what we need are the financial incentives.
11:13:18 Everybody knows that it's a financial decision what
11:13:21 you do with your property.
11:13:22 And he will bring us ideas on effective incentives for
11:13:27 people in other communities have used.
11:13:29 It's Don Ricama.
11:13:32 And I'll explore what it would take to get him to
11:13:34 Tampa not only for to us hear but for the property
11:13:37 owners to hear, for the downtown, for the CRA to hear,
11:13:39 for the downtown partnership to hear, because we are
11:13:45 all interested in having a healthy downtown.
11:13:51 >> Other questions from council members?
11:13:53 Okay, Mr. Lane, you gave us some suggestions.
11:13:56 I agree with those.

11:13:57 >>CURTIS LANE: Thank you.
11:14:00 Owner responsibility.
11:14:01 That's the key.
11:14:02 Owner responsibility.
11:14:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:14:07 >> Are you going to receive public comment on this
11:14:09 item?
11:14:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Not right now.
11:14:10 Public comments.
11:14:11 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: Thank you.
11:14:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 10 we will continue to May
11:14:17 17th.
11:14:19 >> So moved.
11:14:19 >> Second.
11:14:19 (Motion carried).
11:14:20 >> If I could speak on that real quick.
11:14:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We have people to speak on it.
11:14:41 Are you here for number 10?
11:14:44 Okay, item number 10.
11:14:49 >>> (off microphone).
11:14:51 >>GWEN MILLER: You can't speak on this until we hear
11:14:54 public comments.

11:14:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: A little while.
11:15:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I cut off the motion just for a
11:15:04 reason.
11:15:05 This issue has been continued and continued and
11:15:08 continued by the administration for a period of -- for
11:15:12 a long period of time.
11:15:13 I think the neighborhoods that abut these canals
11:15:17 deserve answers, and deserve a plan, or else they
11:15:19 deserve to be told that there's not going to be a
11:15:21 plan.
11:15:21 We need to stop with the continuances.
11:15:23 So I think I just want to send a clear message from
11:15:26 council.
11:15:27 I'll support their request for another continuance to
11:15:30 May 17th.
11:15:31 But at some point, we are going to have --
11:15:34 >>CHAIRMAN: You cannot speak.
11:15:35 You have to wait till public comment.
11:15:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It will be just a moment or two.
11:15:40 >>> The stormwater group is having a meeting with us
11:15:42 at 11:30.
11:15:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We'll be there in a second.

11:15:47 That's my point.
11:15:47 If you want to make the motion.
11:15:49 >>GWEN MILLER: We had a motion to continue, Mr.
11:15:51 Shelby.
11:15:52 Do you have a question on the motion?
11:15:53 All in favor of the motion to continue to May 17th
11:15:55 say Aye.
11:15:56 Opposed, Nay.
11:15:56 (Motion carried).
11:15:58 Item number -- yes.
11:16:03 >>> (off microphone)
11:16:04 It's set for an 11 a.m. workshop.
11:16:09 I apologize to council.
11:16:11 It's a little after 11.
11:16:13 To bring to council's attention it was on the agenda
11:16:15 for that time.
11:16:16 >>GWEN MILLER: So you want to take it up now, item 67?
11:16:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's the one that I have spoken
11:16:23 to people about.
11:16:24 I think in deference to the people in the audience, I
11:16:26 move that we waive our rules to allow public comment
11:16:28 now.

11:16:29 >>GWEN MILLER: We are talking about 67.
11:16:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No, I'm talking about -- we can do
11:16:35 that later.
11:16:36 >>GWEN MILLER: We have 11:00 time certain for 11.
11:16:39 Are we going to hear this workshop?
11:16:41 It's past 11.
11:16:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to hear it after we
11:16:44 finish the other things before us.
11:16:47 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
11:16:49 (Motion carried).
11:16:51 >> What's the motion?
11:16:57 >> To defer 67.
11:17:02 >>GWEN MILLER: All right.
11:17:02 We go back to item number 10.
11:17:06 >> I move to waive the rules to allow us to hear from
11:17:08 the public now.
11:17:13 On just public comment.
11:17:14 Because these ladies are here and because other people
11:17:16 --
11:17:17 >> It will only be a few minutes.
11:17:19 Motion lies -- lies for lack of a second.
11:17:22 Item 11.

11:17:23 Anyone here from administration to talk about --
11:17:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: With regard to item number 10, are
11:17:33 you deferring that?
11:17:34 Or was there a motion cast --
11:17:37 >>GWEN MILLER: To continue.
11:17:40 Nobody is here for item --
11:17:42 >>> Move to continue item 11 till next week, to appear
11:17:47 and provide a report.
11:17:48 In person.
11:17:49 Appear.
11:17:50 Appear means in person.
11:17:51 >>GWEN MILLER: You want them to appear and give a
11:17:56 report.
11:17:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Continue this one we can for the
11:17:59 administration to appear.
11:18:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Verbal report.
11:18:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This says continued from February
11:18:08 22nd.
11:18:12 >> Yes, Reverend Scott.
11:18:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: What are we doing here?
11:18:15 February 22nd.
11:18:16 And this is April the 19th?

11:18:20 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry, council, is there a
11:18:22 motion?
11:18:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: There's a motion for one more --
11:18:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Was there any communication to
11:18:29 council? I don't have a recollection.
11:18:35 >>> Cindy Miller, director of growth management
11:18:38 development services.
11:18:39 I would be happy to report to council for what I do
11:18:40 know.
11:18:41 I do know that when it comes to other city staff,
11:18:45 there have been -- we have had a contractor in,
11:18:49 improving the condition on the inside of the building.
11:18:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We can do it next week.
11:18:56 >> Second.
11:18:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
11:19:00 >>THOMAS SCOTT: But again, council, I hear what you
11:19:04 are trying to do.
11:19:05 And that's where we get bogged down.
11:19:07 So next week, you have got to dispose the issue and
11:19:11 move forward.
11:19:13 It's ludicrous from February and continuing this item.
11:19:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.

11:19:22 (Motion carried)
11:19:26 We have one Nay.
11:19:31 Item number 12.
11:19:32 Is anyone here from legal?
11:19:34 Ms. Cole?
11:19:35 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
11:19:39 I have been asked to report on the issue but it's not
11:19:43 my issue.
11:19:44 Way did want to let council know, and way understand
11:19:47 it, this is really a much bigger issue than what you
11:19:49 have on paper.
11:19:51 It's going to take a lot of work on behalf of staff
11:19:53 and the legal department.
11:19:54 We are going to have to look at a comprehensive plan.
11:19:56 We have some transactions that are potentially going
11:20:00 on.
11:20:00 Quite frankly, this is something that is hard to put a
11:20:04 date on.
11:20:04 We could put it on for 120 days, or put it on the
11:20:07 pending calendar.
11:20:09 It will be part of the comprehensive plan update.
11:20:13 >> Move to continue this for 120 days.

11:20:16 >> Second.
11:20:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Actually, I am going to suggest a
11:20:19 different motion.
11:20:19 Why don't we move to continue this to include in the
11:20:22 plan update?
11:20:23 That's what she just said.
11:20:26 >>JULIA COLE: It's an -- how we deal with --
11:20:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Withdraw my motion.
11:20:33 >> I second the substitute motion, motion made by Mr.
11:20:35 Dingfelder.
11:20:36 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
11:20:37 (Motion carried).
11:20:37 Item number 13.
11:20:44 >>> I am actually here for this one.
11:20:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Excuse me, Cindy.
11:20:50 Since they have been sitting here patiently, I know
11:20:53 this is not a quick discussion on item number 13.
11:20:57 >>> No.
11:21:00 >> Might be a quick discussion for you, Ms. Miller but
11:21:03 might not be a quick discussion for us because it's
11:21:05 very broad.
11:21:06 I am just going to ask we defer the rules, take public

11:21:08 comment and then do item 13.
11:21:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to waive the rules to
11:21:13 hear public comment.
11:21:14 All in favor of that say Aye.
11:21:16 Opposed, Nay.
11:21:18 >> Nay.
11:21:19 >> Nay.
11:21:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Wait a minute.
11:21:22 Excuse me.
11:21:23 Can we have a hand vote?
11:21:24 It passed.
11:21:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 5 to 2.
11:21:30 >>GWEN MILLER: 4 to 3.
11:21:31 Just a moment.
11:21:32 Just a moment.
11:21:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Rule 8-B, any of the foregoing rules
11:21:40 may be temporarily suspended for the meeting then in
11:21:42 session by unanimous vote of the members of council
11:21:44 then present, unless such waiver is in conflict with
11:21:47 the city charter or state or local law.
11:21:50 >>GWEN MILLER: It did not pass.
11:21:53 You all have to wait until we do number 13.

11:21:55 Ms. Miller, you come back to item 13.
11:22:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Madam Chairman, chapter 13, Ms.
11:22:05 Miller thinks it's going to be short but I think it's
11:22:07 going to be long.
11:22:08 I move that we just move the discussion on chapter 13
11:22:11 until after public comment.
11:22:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Dies for lack of second.
11:22:18 Ms. Miller, would you please come up and do item 13,
11:22:21 please?
11:22:27 >>> Cindy Miller, director of growth management
11:22:29 development services.
11:22:32 This asked for a written report but I thought it would
11:22:34 be easier for me to address you directly.
11:22:36 I did talk to Mr. Michelini.
11:22:39 Did he have to leave.
11:22:40 And he knows what the content of my very brief report.
11:22:46 It relates to -- let me separate some of the issues
11:22:49 into two major areas.
11:22:51 One when it comes to transportation impact fees,
11:22:53 something that staff is already looking at as part of
11:22:55 an ordinance.
11:22:57 We are actually looking at it as part of the

11:22:58 comprehensive plan.
11:22:59 We will be back before you with the Planning
11:23:02 Commission staff, an comprehensive plan update.
11:23:07 There also will be an ordinance prior to that date
11:23:10 that we are looking at for impact fees and any
11:23:12 potential modifications there.
11:23:14 And I think as it relates to the rest of the items, I
11:23:16 believe this came up from a discussion related to a
11:23:21 business or rezoning in Seminole Heights area.
11:23:24 One thing that I would like to let you know is that my
11:23:27 staff in Land Development Coordination has been
11:23:29 working with the various Seminole Heights neighborhood
11:23:31 associations to look at a plan that would be an
11:23:34 improvement first of all to the overlay, and possibly
11:23:37 looking at something that would be a new plan that I
11:23:39 talked to a little bit, one-day zoning, looking at
11:23:43 this as perhaps the first location that we would
11:23:46 address that.
11:23:47 If the plan does determine that some of these types of
11:23:49 changes whether it's landscaping requirements, use,
11:23:53 parking, other improvements or other conditions that
11:23:56 would have to be met, then that would be part of a

11:23:59 code update that we would come to you specifically for
11:24:01 that area.
11:24:02 We are very cognizant of the concerns and the
11:24:06 situations of trying to revitalize some of our
11:24:09 historic areas do entail.
11:24:11 So we would be back before you depending upon the
11:24:14 outcome of that planning opportunity with the various
11:24:17 neighborhoods in that area.
11:24:18 And we are also working with other neighborhoods
11:24:20 concurrently as well.
11:24:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like you to work on the
11:24:27 chapter 27 improvements, I think December, to include
11:24:32 some of these things in there.
11:24:33 And we can talk about it in the future.
11:24:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Question.
11:24:39 Impact fees, Mrs. Miller.
11:24:41 We have been hearing about the impact fees should be
11:24:44 updated, since they haven't been updated for, I don't
11:24:47 know, 15 years or something like that.
11:24:51 Do we have a time frame on that?
11:24:54 >>> When it comes to the impact fees, that is
11:24:55 something we are looking to across the board on a

11:24:57 city-wide basis.
11:24:59 >> Specifically the transportation impact fees, hiring
11:25:03 a consultant.
11:25:04 >>> Exactly.
11:25:04 And we are working on based upon the results of the
11:25:07 concerns we are working on what will be in an
11:25:10 ordinance that will come back before you.
11:25:11 It's something that we believe inherently must be done
11:25:13 as we are working it into the comp plan update.
11:25:16 So therefore it will be something coming back before
11:25:18 you in ordinance form.
11:25:20 I don't have the impact date that that will occur but
11:25:23 we are currently working on that.
11:25:24 My staff as well as transportation and other staff.
11:25:27 >> Is there a consultant already on board and hired
11:25:29 and working on this?
11:25:30 >>> There is a transportation consultant been retained
11:25:33 to assist in gathering information for the
11:25:35 comprehensive plan update.
11:25:36 Some of the results of that would then be utilized as
11:25:39 we analyze what is currently in our ordinances and
11:25:43 what revisions we would take.

11:25:44 That would be part of the process for the
11:25:46 comprehensive plan.
11:25:48 >> I think it sounds too slow.
11:25:51 I mean, does anybody remember -- how many years ago, I
11:25:59 think it was at least two years ago if not more, that
11:26:02 the administration itself said we are going to revisit
11:26:05 transportation impact fees.
11:26:06 And I recognize the market has turned down a little
11:26:08 bit, and maybe that's part of the equation that we are
11:26:12 trying to be sympathetic to that.
11:26:14 I don't know.
11:26:14 But I think we need to have a timetable.
11:26:17 I mean, you know, the people of the community all seem
11:26:23 to agree on one thing, new development should pay for
11:26:25 itself, and that's transportation impact fees are all
11:26:28 about.
11:26:28 That's what impact fees are all about.
11:26:30 But I'm just focused on transportation impact fees.
11:26:33 Like I said, they haven't been updated for 15 years or
11:26:36 more.
11:26:37 So I just think that we need it, at least the
11:26:39 timetable, so it's not a vague sometime in the future

11:26:44 thing.
11:26:44 So I will make a very nice friendly motion to come
11:26:47 back to us in 30 days and give us a timetable, and
11:26:50 when and if that's going to occur.
11:26:53 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
11:26:55 (Motion carried).
11:26:56 Now we go to our audience portion.
11:26:59 Is there anyone in the public that would like to speak
11:27:01 on any item on the agenda that is not set for public
11:27:03 hearing?
11:27:05 You may come up now and speak.
11:27:12 >>> I'm Christina Kostell, 804 Bayside Drive.
11:27:19 We just want to take a minute of your time.
11:27:21 We prepared some packages for council that are
11:27:26 intended to refresh the memories of those who are
11:27:30 familiar with our issue as canal dredging and educate
11:27:36 those that are not familiar with the issue.
11:27:42 Elmo, please.
11:27:44 We represent a group of residents that are part of
11:27:53 what the city has deemed affected homeowners, the
11:28:02 stormwater's department definition of affected
11:28:07 homeowners where we have three feet or less of water

11:28:10 at low tide, and we represent the group that is in
11:28:14 favor of forming a partnership with the city, and we
11:28:20 want to communicate with you what our pledge is to the
11:28:24 city and what our expectations are going forward.
11:28:27 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You can take the microphone.
11:28:35 There's a portable microphone directly to your upper
11:28:38 left.
11:28:43 >>> Okay.
11:28:44 Can you hear me?
11:28:44 Okay.
11:28:45 We have given each of you pictures of what I have
11:28:48 taken at low tide of several of the canals within
11:28:53 Sunset Park and Beach Park.
11:28:56 Obviously there's low tide.
11:28:58 There's no water getting through because the muck that
11:29:00 you see after the water recedes is so deep and so
11:29:05 packed down.
11:29:07 I want to emphasize that you can see the importance of
11:29:10 this dredging project.
11:29:13 Perhaps a lot of people don't realize just how bad
11:29:15 they are.
11:29:16 So our mission here is to make the public aware.

11:29:22 I'm distributing pictures.
11:29:25 Some of what you are looking at -- and you can't
11:29:31 really see depth on a few of them, but some is a good
11:29:38 four feet higher.
11:29:48 Our group as citizens, we don't have an official name
11:29:51 but our motto is pluck the muck.
11:30:00 We have channels and now have quite a large population
11:30:03 on our e-mails distribution list of nearly 150 people.
11:30:11 We are on the petition as being in support of the
11:30:15 option of the creation of a special tax assessment.
11:30:18 But when I say that, I want to be clear of what we are
11:30:22 asking for council.
11:30:24 Yes, the stormwater department, you have just agreed
11:30:28 to grant an extension for them to present now in May
11:30:32 versus today, and we understand that that is for very
11:30:37 good reason that they have postponed.
11:30:41 We ask that City Council stay focused on this issue,
11:30:46 and do not allow further delays.
11:30:49 (Bell sounds).
11:30:52 We ask that the city participate in the education
11:30:54 process of the homeowners.
11:30:56 Right now the city has not, other than personal

11:31:00 meetings that are attended by chuck Walters of the
11:31:03 stormwater department, we don't have any communication
11:31:06 going to the affected homeowners.
11:31:09 And we need that.
11:31:10 Similar to when the city rolled out a reclaimed water.
11:31:13 We need effective communication so the property owners
11:31:17 know what their choices are.
11:31:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay, your time is up.
11:31:29 >>> Just that we further expect that the city, and
11:31:30 that you will demand of the city a time line, so that
11:31:34 there aren't any further delays.
11:31:36 Thank you very much.
11:31:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:31:37 Next.
11:31:39 >> Could I ask her a question?
11:31:43 Was this ever dredged in the past?
11:31:46 >>> To my knowledge this has never been dredged.
11:31:54 >> The stormwater charge, what did that increase to
11:31:56 with the new assessments?
11:32:00 >>> I'm sorry, I don't have those calculations.
11:32:03 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Okay.
11:32:04 Thank you.

11:32:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Next?
11:32:07 >>> We will have them when the stormwater comes back
11:32:09 on the agenda.
11:32:10 >>CHAIRMAN: Next speaker.
11:32:14 >>> Good morning.
11:32:15 I'm here because I heard --
11:32:18 >> Put your name on the record.
11:32:20 >>> Lori Benson, resident Davis Islands, member of
11:32:26 City Council -- I mean civic association and utility
11:32:28 task force for City Council.
11:32:31 The issue that you I'm here to talk about is an issue
11:32:34 that you was actually brought up initially in 1996.
11:32:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Is that on our agenda for this morning?
11:32:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Madam Chairman, I was willing to
11:32:46 move number 11 so we could get through the audience
11:32:49 commendation.
11:32:50 And -- audience comment and not delay the other
11:32:53 people.
11:32:54 So I would like a -- she's speaking on something on
11:32:58 the agenda.
11:32:59 It's not set for a public hearing.
11:33:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Which item is that?

11:33:02 >> Which item number?
11:33:04 >> An item we deferred till later, 11:00.
11:33:07 The 11:00 one.
11:33:09 Let's just let her talk now.
11:33:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay, go ahead.
11:33:14 The TECO?
11:33:15 >>> Yes. Anyway, the idea of the undergrounding of
11:33:20 utilities on Davis Island came up many years ago and
11:33:22 had started out with the idea that, you know, the
11:33:25 trees were being butchered by the people killing the
11:33:29 trees, lead to possible problems with power lines.
11:33:32 And the idea, most of the residents thought that the
11:33:35 best solution would be to underground, not move the
11:33:38 trees, move the lines.
11:33:39 I still feel that it makes good sense.
11:33:43 It's done everywhere else in a new community.
11:33:46 There's many reasons why they go down.
11:33:52 We have had so many hurricanes and storms.
11:33:54 It's a definite safer type of system to have in a
11:33:59 storm, your property values are increased, you have
11:34:05 impact on insurance.
11:34:07 There are many good reasons for putting the utilities

11:34:09 underground.
11:34:10 And I really, truly believe that it will make our
11:34:13 community a better place.
11:34:15 And I would like to see this project go forward.
11:34:23 >>> Margaret Vizzi, 213 South Sherill.
11:34:26 I would like to welcome the new council members also.
11:34:29 And I congratulate each of you at the institution --
11:34:33 installation.
11:34:33 Glad to see you on there.
11:34:35 On number 9, as far as code enforcement, this problem
11:34:39 with code enforcement not only with historic
11:34:41 buildings, but all properties in the city, where they
11:34:47 will just mow a property, for example, and then a
11:34:51 month later, the whole process.
11:34:56 We have asked repeatedly, and I'm talking basically
11:35:00 Tampa homeowners now, and all the neighborhoods, that
11:35:02 there be something, let's say this becomes a repeat
11:35:06 offender and you don't just get away with it by having
11:35:08 code enforcement come out each time using city staff
11:35:11 and addressing -- so as you are discussing this code
11:35:18 enforcement problem, please think about it across the
11:35:20 board.

11:35:22 The other issue is number 12.
11:35:24 I'm glad to see that in the discussion originally, I
11:35:27 think it was only riverfront property that was going
11:35:31 to be discussed, that you change it to coastline, and
11:35:38 into the comp plan will be watching that.
11:35:41 Because I think that's a good idea.
11:35:42 As far as number 13, my only comment on that was --
11:35:46 and I think Ms. Miller says -- that they will be
11:35:50 discussing that with all of the neighborhoods.
11:35:52 So that would be affected as far as historic
11:35:55 neighborhoods.
11:35:57 Because I know some historic properties, I mean
11:36:01 neighborhoods, still have concerns about parking,
11:36:04 et cetera, that's in the neighborhood, residential.
11:36:07 So I just hope that will continue.
11:36:11 As far as what I really came here for today, I will be
11:36:14 coming back under your next legislative part.
11:36:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:36:22 Next.
11:36:30 >>MOSES KNOTT, JR.: I reside at 2902 east he will I
11:36:33 could it street, and I thank God for his grace and his
11:36:37 mercy, especially for the last three or four days with

11:36:42 things that have been going on.
11:36:44 The people up in Virginia.
11:36:45 My heart goes out to them.
11:36:49 But I feel for those peoples in Virginia.
11:36:52 I am going to speak about article 5.
11:37:00 I keep talking about praying and all this stuff.
11:37:07 You go to the Bible.
11:37:08 You read the 24th chapter of Matthew and he spoke
11:37:11 about this thing here, he said beginning -- beginning
11:37:19 much, much sorrow.
11:37:21 All the people moaning.
11:37:23 And I look there and lie at you all.
11:37:29 But in Virginia, I saw the president got on his plane
11:37:34 and came to Virginia, he and his wife were at the
11:37:37 podium and speaking and I never seen the president so
11:37:40 humble in my life, but wasn't nothing he could do.
11:37:43 He said let's all of us pray.
11:37:52 But this morning, though, Ms. Wiggins and Ms. Hart, I
11:37:58 feel sorry for those peoples.
11:37:59 They got involved in building in East Tampa years ago.
11:38:02 The city person come in this morning, trying to
11:38:06 explain the reason why that program got here.

11:38:10 Same thing.
11:38:12 I come to this podium like a broke record.
11:38:14 I played the same tune all the time.
11:38:17 What you all call portable houses.
11:38:21 It's no safe thing as affordable house costing 100,
11:38:26 200,000.
11:38:27 And then taxes.
11:38:29 Okay.
11:38:30 Then again, down through the years, you all took all
11:38:34 that property over there.
11:38:35 I think around 3 or 400.
11:38:38 We count the houses.
11:38:41 About 200, we lost track.
11:38:43 These houses are being taken from poor peoples and the
11:38:46 city cannot come up with this program and give these
11:38:48 people these lots.
11:38:49 Came from poor peoples now to build a house, but these
11:38:53 houses are going to benefit the poor peoples as all.
11:38:57 But what I'm saying now, we got over in my
11:39:00 neighborhood lots, and hurts my feeling because you
11:39:02 all sent somebody out there to tell the people to
11:39:04 chain their lot from commercial to residential where

11:39:07 you can build some houses.
11:39:08 And Diane Hart told me about it.
11:39:10 The only land through there in my neighborhood.
11:39:13 So there's in a risk.
11:39:14 But I want to say that they had a problem with HUD.
11:39:20 You know, that thing got so out of commission, a lot
11:39:25 of people went behind jail, I think about three or
11:39:30 four of them went to jail.
11:39:32 But it should have been 20 or 30.
11:39:40 I mean, Reverend Scott what you said this morning
11:39:42 about downtown.
11:39:44 I was thinking about, Lord, I can't believe this here.
11:39:50 Knock that down in three days that thing caught on
11:39:52 fire.
11:39:52 And, oh, no, there are no liens, no nothing.
11:39:59 (Bell sounds)
11:40:00 Change to the a $1,000 a day.
11:40:02 The house need to be painted.
11:40:04 $1,000 a day.
11:40:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Are you going to speak?
11:40:16 >>> Good afternoon.
11:40:18 Robin Wyms, I'm here to speak on item number 33 on if

11:40:27 you have any comments or questions.
11:40:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone have any questions on number
11:40:31 approximate 3?
11:40:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 33, I believe, is a one day wet
11:40:40 zoning.
11:40:42 >>> Faces of courage foundation.
11:40:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone else like to speak?
11:40:45 We go to our ordinance for first reading.
11:40:48 Number 15.
11:40:53 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Ordinance being presented for
11:40:56 first reading consideration, an ordinance authorizing
11:40:58 an encroachment of an existing building over a portion
11:41:01 of the public right-of-way, a platted 10-foot alley,
11:41:05 lying in the north one-third of lot D, block 5, Manuel
11:41:10 Sanchez addition, in the City of Tampa, Hillsborough
11:41:13 County, as more particularly described herein, subject
11:41:16 to certain terms, covenants, conditions, and
11:41:20 agreements as more particularly described herein,
11:41:24 providing an effective date.
11:41:25 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
11:41:27 (Motion carried).
11:41:30 We now go to our committee reports.

11:41:31 Parks, recreation, vice chair, Mr. John Dingfelder.
11:41:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I move items 16 through 21.
11:41:37 >> Second.
11:41:37 (Motion carried).
11:41:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Pun works, Mr. Charlie Miranda.
11:41:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move 22 through 26.
11:41:48 >> Second.
11:41:48 (Motion carried).
11:41:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Finance Committee, Mr. John Dingfelder.
11:41:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I move items 27 through 33.
11:41:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
11:41:56 (Motion carried).
11:41:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Building and zoning, Mr. Joe Caetano.
11:42:03 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I move 34, 35.
11:42:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Keep going.
11:42:10 You need the agenda.
11:42:12 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I'm sorry.
11:42:13 Through 40.
11:42:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
11:42:16 (Motion carried).
11:42:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Transportation, Ms. Mary Mulhern.
11:42:20 >>MARY MULHERN: Move items 41 through 46.

11:42:25 >> Second.
11:42:25 (Motion carried).
11:42:26 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder, would you set the
11:42:29 public hearings?
11:42:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I move 47 through 56 setting public
11:42:34 hearings.
11:42:35 >> So moved.
11:42:35 >> Second.
11:42:35 (Motion carried).
11:42:36 9 we now go to our public hearings.
11:42:40 Anyone in the public that wants to speak on items 57
11:42:44 through 66.
11:42:49 Would you please stand and raise your right hand?
11:42:51 (Oath administered by Clerk).
11:43:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Ski that all written communications
11:43:05 relative to today's hearings which have been available
11:43:07 for public inspection in City Council's office be
11:43:10 received and filed prior to action at this time by
11:43:13 motion.
11:43:15 Anything you have to have filed?
11:43:16 You have nothing?
11:43:19 If that's the case, a quick reminder if you had any

11:43:22 ex parte communications please disclose those prior to
11:43:24 action.
11:43:25 And finally, when you testify, please reaffirm for the
11:43:27 record that you have been sworn.
11:43:30 Thank you very much.
11:43:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 57.
11:43:32 Need to open.
11:43:42 >>DENNIS FERNANDEZ: Historic preservation.
11:43:45 I did not make the swearing.
11:43:46 (Oath administered by Clerk).
11:43:48 >> I'm here on item 57 for the bobbins brothers
11:44:06 cigar -- Balbin brothers.
11:44:10 I have a photograph of the property on the Elmo for
11:44:12 you.
11:44:13 It was built in 1904.
11:44:15 The Balbin Brothers cigar factory moved into the
11:44:18 building in 1910 and occupied it until 1930.
11:44:24 Showing an aerial.
11:44:25 It's located on Howard and Nassau street.
11:44:30 In the historic Sanborn map showing the property.
11:44:33 The property has been a focus of the Ybor City
11:44:37 communicate, in addition to the other cigar industry

11:44:41 properties.
11:44:46 The designation is at the request of the property
11:44:48 owners.
11:44:48 The property is being redeveloped currently by
11:44:52 intelligent solutions into their corporate offices.
11:44:57 And is eligible for landmark designation under both
11:45:01 criterion A for the building's history of contribution
11:45:04 to industry for the city, and its architecture.
11:45:07 And this is the initiation.
11:45:09 It will be back to you for two public hearings after
11:45:12 Planning Commission review.
11:45:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My grandfather used to own this
11:45:24 building when he had empire mercantile and so this is
11:45:30 very exciting to see that it's going to be protected.
11:45:33 Thank you.
11:45:36 >>GWEN MILLER: We go to the public.
11:45:37 Anybody in the public that wants to speak on item 57?
11:45:46 Motion and second to close.
11:45:47 (Motion carried).
11:45:48 Move the resolution.
11:45:50 >> So moved.
11:45:51 >> Second.

11:45:51 (Motion carried).
11:45:52 >> We need to go back, ask, would anyone like to
11:46:01 request reconsideration?
11:46:01 >>MARGARET VIZZI: 213 south Sherill.
11:46:11 Sue Lyon and I are here this morning representing the
11:46:14 Tampa homeowners.
11:46:15 Last week, your item 48, which you took legislative
11:46:20 approval of, was set a workshop regarding the hearing
11:46:23 master process.
11:46:31 T.H.A.N. members got on the phone immediately.
11:46:33 We watched the hearing master process in the county
11:46:37 for a long time, and we have concerns about it coming
11:46:41 into the city.
11:46:43 I know it's a workshop and you can wait until you have
11:46:47 your workshop but we felt we wanted you to know how
11:46:50 concerned we were about even having a discussion, and
11:46:54 consideration of doing that, because it's a totally
11:46:57 different process than people here in the city who
11:47:04 maybe are just getting into coming to City Council
11:47:08 public hearings regarding zoning matters.
11:47:13 So our plea to you is to just postpone forever the
11:47:19 discussion on the hearing master process.

11:47:23 And the reason we want it to come to you now is
11:47:26 instead of staff spending a lot of time coming up with
11:47:29 what -- all the research they have to do and
11:47:32 everything, that maybe if you realize the concerns we
11:47:36 have about the process, that you would just stop the
11:47:41 process.
11:47:41 So that's one.
11:47:43 The other issue, though, which in fact may name was
11:47:46 brought up last week by Cathy Coyle, the zoning
11:47:49 committee of Tampa home openers will be reviewing with
11:47:52 her chapter 3.
11:47:54 And I think I spoke with Cathy a long time.
11:47:58 There are going to be some things that we'll be able
11:48:00 to work together to come up with a good process for
11:48:02 the wet zoning.
11:48:04 So we just wanted to you know particularly today how
11:48:09 concerned we are about the discussion of the hearing
11:48:12 master process.
11:48:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ms. Vizzi, I share at least some of
11:48:19 your concerns.
11:48:22 When are we scheduled to come in front of T.H.A.N. for
11:48:25 the big meeting?

11:48:28 >>> Oh, on the 9th.
11:48:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: May 9th?
11:48:32 And when are we supposed to have this discussion.
11:48:36 >>> May 31st.
11:48:37 >> Well, I think there is probably plenty of time on
11:48:39 May 9th for the neighborhood groups and T.H.A.N.
11:48:43 as a whole to bend our ear on the issue, and then
11:48:47 perhaps shortly after May 9th if we decide to go
11:48:50 one way or the other, the next meeting thereafter, we
11:48:53 could do something.
11:48:56 >>> Okay.
11:48:56 We just wanted to let you know early on because my
11:48:59 phone started ringing: I even got a call from someone
11:49:03 who lives in the county about the county residents'
11:49:07 concern about the hearing master and did we know that
11:49:10 you all were discussing it, and I said most certainly
11:49:13 we had, and my phone rang and I know people sent
11:49:16 e-mails to you that we do want all of you hopefully
11:49:19 will be able to attend the T.H.A.N. meeting, which we
11:49:22 do have --
11:49:25 >> So mach sure that's noticed.
11:49:34 >>> That's why we just wanted to come to you early on

11:49:37 in this discussion.
11:49:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Saul-Sena has a question.
11:49:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question.
11:49:42 Would you all mind inviting whoever in the county from
11:49:45 the citizen perspective had experience with this to
11:49:48 come to the T.H.A.N. meeting and share their thoughts?
11:49:50 >>> Oh, yes.
11:49:51 >> That would be great.
11:49:55 >>> Mr. Shelby is also invited to our T.H.A.N.
11:49:59 meetings, because we do have to work so closely with
11:50:01 him.
11:50:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you for the invitation.
11:50:05 If you can, just for the purposes of the audience,
11:50:07 understand, if you want to announce it publicly now
11:50:10 where and when your meeting is.
11:50:12 >>> It's at the community center which is in the
11:50:17 Lincoln Gardens city neighborhood and it's a beautiful
11:50:21 center.
11:50:22 If you haven't been there, it's a tremendous center.
11:50:25 >> On Hubert Avenue.
11:50:26 >>> It will be at 7:00.
11:50:28 May 9th.

11:50:29 >>GWEN MILLER: May 9th.
11:50:31 >>> May 9th.
11:50:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I would hope that council would at
11:50:36 least give legal an opportunity to do a workshop.
11:50:40 I will tell you that we can always find someone always
11:50:43 opposing any action we have without getting the
11:50:45 information, and that's critical and we can always
11:50:46 invite people who oppose.
11:50:49 I believe in hearing both sides, and then you make a
11:50:52 decision.
11:50:53 To have one side and then not hear a balance, in my
11:50:57 opinion, is -- does not give credence to the process.
11:51:02 As elected officials we should hear from everybody,
11:51:05 and then make the decision, not just someone who may
11:51:08 be against or someone who may be for it.
11:51:12 We should have opportunity to hear both sides, and
11:51:14 then -- that's how you make good, sound, public
11:51:18 policies.
11:51:19 So I would encourage us to move forward, and I think
11:51:23 you will find that ten years with the county was a
11:51:26 very productive process.
11:51:28 What most people don't understand about zoning, you

11:51:30 have a full hearing before someone -- and in fact some
11:51:36 of those things go for several weeks as opposed to
11:51:38 coming to council, and you are here till 2:00 in the
11:51:41 morning, half of you all making a decisions, you are
11:51:47 not fully alert, half the community has left, half of
11:51:50 us are still here, so everybody will won't get a
11:51:55 chance to participate because on the zoning master
11:51:58 hearing process you don't have that problem.
11:52:00 You have another opportunity to come before council
11:52:01 and hear it again, except for you have more
11:52:04 information, and the process has been streamlined so
11:52:07 that you don't have to go back to hear everybody's
11:52:10 testimony because you have a record before you.
11:52:16 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want to say to Ms. Vizzi, we
11:52:18 need to hear more than people just aren't ready for
11:52:21 change and really hear what your specific problems are
11:52:24 with that when we talk about it at your meeting.
11:52:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Councilman Scott, I know we don't
11:52:34 want to have the debate now, but since you kind of
11:52:36 preface it, I would like to throw something in.
11:52:40 Because I was over there for a couple of years as a
11:52:43 zoning attorney.

11:52:44 And so I'm familiar with the process.
11:52:46 And I think part of the problem is -- and I know this
11:52:49 is not true of you -- but I think part of the problem
11:52:51 is there's not a lot of faith in the community that
11:52:57 every one of the elected officials takes the time to
11:52:59 read the entire record that was taken in by the zoning
11:53:04 hearing master.
11:53:06 And, therefore, yes, all that information goes into a
11:53:11 record, and it could be this thick.
11:53:13 But, you know, I understand that elected
11:53:18 officials-time is limited, and our time is very
11:53:20 limited to go back and read through all this stuff
11:53:23 prior to the final zoning decision.
11:53:26 And I think that that's part of the concern that I've
11:53:28 heard from the community, is that if they don't have
11:53:30 the chance to make their full case in front of the
11:53:34 elected body, then they feel shortchanged.
11:53:37 So, anyway, you through your side in, I'll throw my
11:53:41 side in.
11:53:42 We'll continue the discussion.
11:53:43 But I think those are the phone calls that I have been
11:53:45 getting.

11:53:47 >>> Sue Lyon, 3233 west Fairoaks Avenue.
11:53:55 With all due respect to Reverend Scott, the
11:54:01 neighborhoods in the city have a special relationship
11:54:04 with the council.
11:54:06 We have worked with them for years and years.
11:54:11 Some members have been here a long time.
11:54:13 Some are new.
11:54:16 If you appoint a hearing master, we feel like -- I've
11:54:21 lived in Tampa all my life.
11:54:22 I have been the president of T.H.A.N.
11:54:25 I'm familiar with all the neighborhoods, more than
11:54:28 most people are.
11:54:29 But a particular, say, your neighborhood, your more
11:54:36 familiar with what they need than a hearing master
11:54:39 would be.
11:54:41 But he can't do the whole neighborhood.
11:54:43 That's the reason we have individual representatives
11:54:46 as well as representatives that do the whole
11:54:48 situation.
11:54:51 Our concern is that there's another layer between us
11:54:56 and council.
11:54:59 We feel, even though we lose a lot of times, that we

11:55:04 have the ability to present our case to you, the
11:55:09 person who makes the decisions.
11:55:11 And it's something -- I keep saying, I'm retired and I
11:55:17 don't want to be here.
11:55:18 And this is something that I've come away -- I love my
11:55:23 walk on the Bayshore which I would much rather be, to
11:55:28 come and tell you how concerned we are.
11:55:30 This is one of those ones.
11:55:31 I'm down on my knees begging again.
11:55:34 Please don't change the system.
11:55:36 And I personally let you know to come to the T.H.A.N.
11:55:40 meeting, not just for this issue, because we need
11:55:43 to -- you need to know us and we need to know you, the
11:55:46 new people.
11:55:48 The old people are friends.
11:55:51 We disagree with them a lot.
11:55:52 We agree with them a lot.
11:55:54 But we would certainly appreciate the opportunity for
11:55:58 you to see what we do.
11:56:00 Thank you very much.
11:56:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:56:03 Mr. Shelby.

11:56:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Sorry to interrupt, council.
11:56:06 I should bring to your attention, it is approaching
11:56:09 the noon hour.
11:56:09 Under council's rules, it does state than a recess for
11:56:12 lunch shall be taken for one hour at noon, or as close
11:56:16 to noon as feasible.
11:56:18 I bring that to your attention, barring council again
11:56:23 waiving its rules by unanimous vote, that is the
11:56:25 policy of council.
11:56:26 And I just want to bring to the your attention being
11:56:29 how we are approaching the noon hour.
11:56:30 >>GWEN MILLER: What's the pleasure of council?
11:56:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to break for noon
11:56:37 because we need to come back at one for something else
11:56:40 and secondly I am supposed to attend an arts council
11:56:42 meeting representing City Council.
11:56:43 So I will not be supporting it.
11:56:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And I will not be coming back at
11:56:49 one.
11:56:50 >> Even though there's a 1:00 scheduled?
11:56:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Nope.
11:57:01 >> Prior to your adjournment the petitioner Mr. Truett

11:57:05 Gardner would like to clear the agenda item.
11:57:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay, thank you.
11:57:13 Mr. Gardner.
11:57:15 >>> Truett Gardner: 61.
11:57:19 This is our second continuance request.
11:57:20 I apologize for everything to do that but we changed
11:57:23 the use of the zoning or for the application to hotel.
11:57:25 And unfortunately got experts all over the place, and
11:57:29 the calculation for landscaping didn't get back to our
11:57:31 zoning site plan as well.
11:57:33 >> So move to continue.
11:57:34 >> I was going to -- I want it to be exactly right,
11:57:38 June 21st or 28th will be fine with me and
11:57:40 we'll be back with a perfected site plan.
11:57:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Which one is that?
11:57:45 >> Which is the best for you?
11:57:46 >>> 21st in the morning is fine.
11:57:49 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 10 a.m.?
11:57:51 >>CHAIRMAN: 10 a.m.
11:57:53 >> Second.
11:57:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just in case there is somebody
11:57:56 present that wants to address that continuance.

11:57:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone that came to speak on item 61
11:58:00 can come and speak on the continuance.
11:58:03 >> Thank you.
11:58:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Moss and second.
11:58:05 (Motion carried).
11:58:06 Ms. Grimes.
11:58:11 >>GINA GRIMES: Law firm of hill, ward, Henderson, 101
11:58:15 East Kennedy Boulevard, suite 3100.
11:58:17 I have been here.
11:58:18 I'm here for item number 58.
11:58:19 We represent the University of Tampa.
11:58:22 It's a request to vacate certain rights-of-way on the
11:58:26 western portion of the university of Tampa property.
11:58:29 I presented to you yesterday a request for a
11:58:31 continuance.
11:58:33 We have an issue with you the real estate department,
11:58:35 would like to complete before we come before you on
11:58:38 the vacating.
11:58:41 Since the date of the request to continue is June
11:58:45 7th at 10:00.
11:58:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
11:58:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that came

11:58:50 to speak on item 58?
11:58:52 You may speak on the continuance.
11:58:54 Okay, we have a motion and second to continue to June
11:58:58 7 at 10 a.m.
11:59:00 (Motion carried).
11:59:02 >>GINA GRIMES: Thank you.
11:59:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Any other continuances?
11:59:05 Okay, we need to get a motion on what we are going to
11:59:08 do about lunch.
11:59:09 Are we going to work through or come back?
11:59:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Madam Chairman, you're right but I
11:59:14 would like to say if there's anyone that has these
11:59:18 items that goes through 66 that would like a continued
11:59:20 hearing.
11:59:26 >>GWEN MILLER: None.
11:59:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I see a handout there.
11:59:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you want a continuance?
11:59:34 No, nobody.
11:59:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I move that we keep plodding
11:59:41 through these items.
11:59:42 Personally, just today, I can't be here beyond 1:30.
11:59:46 Because I do have an appointment.

11:59:48 So and I would like to be here for as many public
11:59:52 hearings as possible.
11:59:54 So that would be my motion, is just keep plodding
11:59:58 through.
11:59:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Do we have a second?
11:59:59 Motion and second to continue through the lunch hour.
12:00:02 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
12:00:03 Opposed, Nay.
12:00:06 Okay, we go ahead on.
12:00:07 We go to item number 59.
12:00:13 We need to open.
12:00:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Now the question, Madam Chair.
12:00:17 And that is, you will continue through the lunch hour,
12:00:20 and a 1:30 workshop. That means we don't break at
12:00:23 all.
12:00:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Way see on the agenda, there's not
12:00:28 much left.
12:00:29 I think we can do this in 15 or 20 minutes at most.
12:00:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I will go with that.
12:00:40 But this is a problem, if we waive the rules, I'm just
12:00:43 telling you.
12:00:43 And people can't come back, have something else to do.

12:00:46 That affects the whole agenda.
12:00:48 We have got to do a better job on the process and our
12:00:51 time management.
12:00:53 Or else we never accomplish anything.
12:00:58 >> Who is not going to be here at 1:00?
12:01:02 Charlie.
12:01:05 >> Move item number 59.
12:01:07 (Motion carried).
12:01:10 >>BARBARA LYNCH: Land Development Coordination, I have
12:01:11 been sworn.
12:01:12 This is a for poinsettia Avenue located in East Tampa
12:01:16 and it's in the East Tampa mixed use overlay district.
12:01:19 The petitioner is requesting to vacate a portion of
12:01:22 poinsettia Avenue lying south of Osborne, north of the
12:01:26 extension of okay August -- Cayuga.
12:01:31 I do have this on the Elmo.
12:01:34 The property to be vacated is outlined in yellow.
12:01:36 North is at the top of the page.
12:01:37 And before I go any further, I just wanted -- on my
12:01:47 report I show a little larger area, to be vacated,
12:01:52 petitioner is -- this is the actual area and the
12:01:54 square footage on the report read 57,000.

12:02:00 I have a few pictures. This is poinsettia street.
12:02:04 South on Osborne Avenue.
12:02:07 This is poinsettia street looking north from the
12:02:11 dead-end.
12:02:12 And this is poinsettia street looking north.
12:02:19 And this is poinsettia street from the dead-end.
12:02:23 And this is the portion to be closed.
12:02:27 Staff has no objection to this request as long as
12:02:29 utility easement is reserved for water and stormwater.
12:02:33 And there's a comment from parks.
12:02:43 >>> A.G. Spicola, Tampa, Florida representing
12:02:48 petitioner.
12:02:49 There are no objections.
12:02:50 This is at 1924 Platt, where the road was never
12:02:57 improved.
12:02:57 We urge your approval.
12:02:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Does anyone in the public want to speak
12:03:01 on item 59?
12:03:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close the public hearing.
12:03:05 >> Second.
12:03:05 (Motion carried).
12:03:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move an ordinance vacating a

12:03:12 portion of poinsettia street lying south of Osborne
12:03:15 Avenue, north of Noel street, north of Noel street east
12:03:19 of 20th street, west of 22nd street, in orange
12:03:22 wood park subdivision, subdivision located in the City
12:03:25 of Tampa, Hillsborough County, Florida, the same being
12:03:27 more fully described in section 2 hereof providing an
12:03:31 effective date.
12:03:32 >> Motion and second.
12:03:32 (Motion carried).
12:03:34 >>MARY MULHERN: Nay.
12:03:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number --
12:03:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Announce please.
12:03:41 >>GWEN MILLER: It's 6 to 1.
12:03:42 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with muscle hurricane
12:03:46 voting no.
12:03:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.
12:03:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Number 60 cannot be heard.
12:03:49 It's continued to June 28th.
12:03:52 >> So moved.
12:03:52 >> Second.
12:03:53 (Motion carried).
12:03:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 62, continued public

12:03:57 hearing.
12:04:03 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land Development Coordination.
12:04:05 I'm sorry, I have a little bit of laryngitis this
12:04:10 morning.
12:04:11 I have not been sworn in.
12:04:12 >>
12:04:20 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land Development Coordination.
12:04:25 I have handed out to you elevation, revised staff
12:04:32 report for this case, and couple of site plans.
12:04:36 This case was before council on March 29th, and
12:04:43 since some of you are new what I would like to do is
12:04:45 briefly give you an overview of the case.
12:04:49 This is a rezoning located at 2715 Tampa Bay
12:04:53 Boulevard, asking for rezoning from RS-50, residential
12:04:57 single family, to PD, planned development, for
12:05:00 business and professional office.
12:05:03 And ask for one waiver, which is the waiver of the
12:05:05 6-foot masonry wall to a 6-foot PVC fence, and that is
12:05:11 because of the sanitary sewer pipe located at the rear
12:05:14 of the property, and they would not like the masonry
12:05:18 wall placed upon that pipe.
12:05:22 So they are asking for a waiver to the 6-foot PVC

12:05:27 fence.
12:05:30 They are proposing to rezone the property to develop a
12:05:33 1492 square foot professional office.
12:05:37 It will be two-story, and the setbacks for the office
12:05:42 will include 61 feet, Tampa Bay Boulevard, 3 feet side
12:05:47 yard on the west, 10-foot to the rear yard and 12 feet
12:05:51 on the side yard on the east.
12:05:56 The maximum height is 20 feet, and architectural
12:06:03 style, which elevations have been provided.
12:06:14 I would like to familiarize you with the site.
12:06:17 >> We didn't get a site plan.
12:06:20 >>ABBYE FEELEY: There were three.
12:06:21 I'm sorry.
12:06:26 Tampa Bay Boulevard is to the south.
12:06:28 Habana is over on your left.
12:06:32 Tampania on the east.
12:06:37 You see on the zoning application that there are
12:06:38 several commercial neighborhood uses immediately
12:06:41 adjacent to the property on the west.
12:06:44 Across the street is residential office.
12:06:48 On the southeast corner.
12:06:51 On the other end of the block you have another

12:06:53 commercial neighborhood.
12:06:59 Planned development.
12:06:59 On the aerial, again, south Tampania, Habana, and I'm
12:07:06 going to come back to this area in a couple of
12:07:08 minutes, given previous discussion.
12:07:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Real quick, where are the
12:07:16 residential adjacent, or across the street from this?
12:07:20 >>> There is a residential immediately adjacent to the
12:07:22 east.
12:07:23 There is also several residential across the street to
12:07:28 the south.
12:07:29 Your corner out there, business, parking in front, and
12:07:34 you have a corner lot here as well.
12:07:36 We also have a business immediately adjacent to the
12:07:40 property, to the west.
12:07:45 >> And all the proposed parking for this project is
12:07:48 alley access from the rear?
12:07:50 >>ABBYE FEELEY: The alley behind this property vacated
12:07:54 and --
12:08:01 >> I got myself reversed.
12:08:03 The parking is in the front.
12:08:05 >>> Yes.

12:08:06 Here is a picture of the site.
12:08:10 A little close-up picture.
12:08:12 You will see there are no trees.
12:08:13 It's pretty much a vacant site.
12:08:15 This is the retail use immediately adjacent to the
12:08:21 lot, has parking immediately adjacent to the site.
12:08:28 Here's a view looking down Tampa Bay Boulevard to the
12:08:31 west -- to Habana, I'm sorry.
12:08:34 You can see other residential houses here on the
12:08:39 corner.
12:08:44 This is the residential property immediately to the
12:08:46 east.
12:08:52 This is immediately across the street but as we talked
12:08:54 about the residence is across the street.
12:08:56 And this is a view looking east down Tampa Bay
12:09:01 Boulevard towards Tampania.
12:09:06 This case was originally before City Council March
12:09:09 29th.
12:09:12 That was the second continuance.
12:09:15 Previous council had concerns -- let me clarify.
12:09:18 Staff has no objections to this rezoning, all codes
12:09:23 requirements, have addressed waiver consent.

12:09:26 Previous council had concerns related to the parking
12:09:28 and the location of the building on this site.
12:09:31 They had requested that the building be moved back and
12:09:34 the parking be placed in the rear of the building.
12:09:38 What you can see from what I showed you, the majority
12:09:42 on Tampa Bay Boulevard does have parking in front.
12:09:47 The petitioner has spoken with the neighborhood.
12:09:50 I'll let him speak to that, that the petitioner
12:09:53 desires to move the building to the front of the
12:09:55 parcel.
12:09:56 Doing so would require a waiver of parking, and the
12:10:01 petitioner could not afford to lose any of those
12:10:04 parking spaces so what you see before you that has the
12:10:08 parking located in the front, and then the building
12:10:10 located in the rear of the property.
12:10:13 Staff is available for any questions.
12:10:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Questions by council members?
12:10:20 Mr. Dingfelder?
12:10:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is this in the overlay district?
12:10:31 >> The F there was an overlay district we probably
12:10:33 have issues in terms of compatibility, being street
12:10:38 friendly, that sort of thing, right?

12:10:40 But I guess it's irrelevant since it's not in the
12:10:44 overlay district so I guess I'll just cut to the
12:10:47 chase.
12:10:51 It doesn't seem to be real street friendly, and I
12:10:53 guess the prior council addressed that, although I
12:10:55 don't know if I was here that day.
12:10:58 I don't remember the discussion.
12:11:00 But it just appears to me that looking at that block
12:11:06 on both sides of the street, the line of houses and/or
12:11:12 businesses is up toward the street.
12:11:13 So all of a sudden, the building is going to be all
12:11:18 the way in the back of the lot.
12:11:21 It just doesn't seem to be real consistent from a PD
12:11:24 perspective.
12:11:24 And I think your analysis of PD should include
12:11:28 consistency and compatibility.
12:11:29 >> If I can include consistency and compatibility and
12:11:34 the business immediately adjacent to it, has parking
12:11:36 in the front.
12:11:39 With their entire parking, I will let the petitioner
12:11:44 speak to it further.
12:11:47 We do have parking in the front there.

12:11:49 >> One level of parking, on the street side parking.
12:11:52 That's not what I'm talking about.
12:11:54 >>> No, but this site will have a driveway that
12:11:55 accesses into the site and then the parking will be
12:11:58 contained within that area with a sidewalk for
12:12:04 pedestrian safety and compatibility.
12:12:06 >> This is an entire 1, 2, 3 -- 6, 7, 8 spaces before
12:12:11 you even get to the building so your whole street
12:12:14 experience is parking lot.
12:12:17 >>ABBYE FEELEY: You have cars immediately pulling out
12:12:23 into the pedestrian -- that's why in this case it
12:12:27 would than consigned to one parking lot, plus having
12:12:30 all of the spaces immediately backing out.
12:12:33 >> That's not the alternative I'm talking about.
12:12:35 What I'm talking about is you make -- make a lane next
12:12:39 to the building, have the parking in the back.
12:12:43 I don't get it.
12:12:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This is just to the east, corner of
12:12:51 Tampania and Tampa Bay, there's commercial, there's, I
12:12:55 believe, beauty salon there.
12:12:58 And down the street on the other corner, on the corner
12:13:01 of the northeast corner of Habana and Tampa Bay,

12:13:05 there's been a long-standing type restaurant, sandwich
12:13:09 shop, that's been in operation there for actually 25
12:13:12 years, on and off in different ownerships, to the lot
12:13:16 adjacent to the east of that sandwich shop there's a
12:13:19 parking lot that goes with the sandwich shop.
12:13:23 This property that we're talking about now used to
12:13:25 be -- did not have a chain link fence on it, and a lot
12:13:29 of individuals were dumping trash there, and now I
12:13:32 believe it's got a chain link fence, am I correct?
12:13:35 I think it does.
12:13:36 And it's a very narrow street -- I forget if it's 50
12:13:41 or 06 feet wide but it's a very narrow street lot.
12:13:43 If you take 14 feet or 10 feet away from it you are
12:13:47 going to have a tall building on stilts, I guess.
12:13:50 I don't know.
12:13:51 Because it's a lot that has a problem.
12:13:52 It's been vacant for a long, long time.
12:13:56 I would say, well, as long as I can remember.
12:14:00 And I'm happy to see that they put a fence on it to
12:14:04 stop the nuisance of people describing their unwanted
12:14:08 goods on the property.
12:14:11 I don't know if there's any public individuals in the

12:14:14 audience who want top speak against this.
12:14:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Let's hear from petitioner and see what
12:14:21 he has to say.
12:14:22 Petitioner?
12:14:27 >>> I have been sworn.
12:14:43 The reason why it's on the site plan is to comply with
12:14:45 the parking per City of Tampa code, and we are
12:14:48 complying with parking.
12:14:50 And the other concern was compatibility.
12:14:55 This is our lot right here.
12:14:57 And this is right next to us.
12:15:05 Basically, I want to show you down the street.
12:15:22 If you are familiar with that law firm.
12:15:24 He's a good friend of mine.
12:15:26 And he's actually relocating because of the parking.
12:15:30 He has no rear parking.
12:15:31 And this is a photo from last night.
12:15:38 Parking down the street, and we are trying to avoid
12:15:40 that, and we are actually complying with parking.
12:15:43 So basically where the structure of our building is,
12:15:46 is because we are complying with your code.
12:15:55 To actually move the house up, but three months, a

12:16:00 year later having parking issues.
12:16:01 If you want compatibility, I mean --
12:16:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We understand that.
12:16:08 >>> If you see next door.
12:16:11 Basically our building, based on even the neighbors,
12:16:22 the letter in front of you, the neighbors to the front
12:16:25 and rear and side, they all approved our site plan the
12:16:28 way it is.
12:16:29 They want nothing changed.
12:16:30 Your staff approved the way it is.
12:16:33 I think we, you know, have done significant -- getting
12:16:39 information to get at proved the way it is.
12:16:41 We can't afford to lose parking, or we are going to
12:16:44 end up parking in the street.
12:16:51 If you notice, basically, it's only a 50 by 100 lot,
12:17:00 basically, and our building, it seems -- it's not much
12:17:06 asphalt.
12:17:07 And it is complying with city code for parking,
12:17:12 handicapped parking.
12:17:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm not questioning the design of
12:17:19 the building.
12:17:20 The design is going to be lovely but it's going to be

12:17:22 lovely behind, you know, 0 feet of asphalt that's
12:17:26 going to be in front of it.
12:17:28 And my whole point is, if we are going to decide that
12:17:32 this is -- what we want Tampa Bay Boulevard to look
12:17:36 like.
12:17:36 You say it's a small lot.
12:17:38 Of course it is because it's a residential lot.
12:17:39 The lots is zoned RS-50.
12:17:41 It's a single-family residential lot because
12:17:43 traditionally that's what that neighborhood was.
12:17:46 Now I recognize that Tampa Bay Boulevard has become
12:17:48 busy.
12:17:49 And Mr. Miranda pointed that out because at the end of
12:17:51 the street, a block away, not next door, is fiesta
12:17:57 plaza. So it is a busy street.
12:17:59 I acknowledge we could or should have a transition to
12:18:01 an office use.
12:18:02 By my only point is, you know, do we want the driving
12:18:08 and walking experience of Tampa Bay Boulevard up and
12:18:10 down there, because you will be the first one, but you
12:18:12 won't be the last, because your next door neighbor
12:18:15 will say, I knocked down my house and do the same

12:18:18 thing, put a parking lot in the front and put a house,
12:18:21 an office building in the back.
12:18:22 So pretty soon your entire experience as you are
12:18:25 driving down will be a whole series of side by side
12:18:28 parking lots.
12:18:29 That's my whole point.
12:18:30 I think we can do better.
12:18:32 The neighbors next door think it's wonderful because
12:18:34 right now Mr. Miranda said they got a bunch of trash
12:18:38 that's been there before, a bunch of garbage and bad
12:18:43 parking and that sort of thing.
12:18:44 So of course the neighbors think it's an improvement
12:18:46 because now they are going to see a nice office
12:18:48 building.
12:18:49 But I'm saying as a community -- and I have been
12:18:51 saying this T same thing in South Tampa but I would
12:18:54 say in the West Tampa as well, why can't we do better?
12:18:56 You're the architect, right?
12:18:59 You're an engineer?
12:19:01 You work for the architect. Anyway, you understand,
12:19:04 my point is if we pull that building, this is the PD.
12:19:07 We have great flexibility.

12:19:08 We can pull that building all the way up very, very
12:19:11 close to the street, which will give you, to me, if
12:19:14 you flip-flop, you get as much parking.
12:19:16 The only key issue is that you have to be able to
12:19:18 leave a lane down the side, which I think if I looked
12:19:22 at it right now you have 11 feet on the side.
12:19:25 >> But basically the law firm, it will be a one-person
12:19:28 law firm, you might go into practice.
12:19:33 I guess her father doesn't want -- if you put a park
12:19:36 in the back, if you drive by at night that's going to
12:19:39 be a safety hazard.
12:19:42 She works around 7:00, and parking in the back, that
12:19:45 could be a whole different issue with the police
12:19:47 department.
12:19:49 >> so that's a different issue.
12:19:50 It's possible to do it but then it becomes a security
12:19:52 issue which you can overcome with lighting and
12:19:55 other --
12:19:57 >>> Based on staff's recommendation, we feel the
12:20:00 parking is better off in front.
12:20:02 >> I think it just depends on what we want our
12:20:04 community to start looking like, and can we do a

12:20:06 better job?
12:20:07 Up and down these types of streets they are
12:20:09 transitioning.
12:20:10 I think we would be better off having buildings close
12:20:13 to the street with the parking in the back.
12:20:17 >>> The entire street is parking in the front.
12:20:20 >>MARY MULHERN: My question is, your lot is 50 feet
12:20:23 wide.
12:20:23 Is that right?
12:20:24 >>> Yes.
12:20:25 >> And are these homes to the east, are those 60-foot?
12:20:29 They look like they are larger lots.
12:20:32 >>> Yes.
12:20:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that came
12:20:39 to speak on item 62?
12:20:43 Did you want to say something?
12:20:47 >>> Melanie Calloway, transaction.
12:20:49 I just want you to be aware we do require 20 feet
12:20:52 driveway aisle width for two-way traffic.
12:20:56 There would be 20 feet on the side.
12:20:58 Now, there have been times at some point that we have
12:21:01 an existing home on the lot that was converted into an

12:21:05 office, in which they had one narrow street type of
12:21:11 aisle because it was an existing structure N.this case
12:21:13 he's building a brand new structure.
12:21:15 It would be a little more difficult. The aisle width
12:21:18 should be 20 feet.
12:21:19 That's a minimum.
12:21:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It should be.
12:21:21 But, A, this is a PD.
12:21:24 B, ace small lot.
12:21:26 C, eights two-person law firm.
12:21:28 Why do you need two-way traffic?
12:21:30 To me that doesn't make any sense.
12:21:31 >>> I understand.
12:21:32 And in a one-person law firm, we don't zone for
12:21:36 one-person law firm.
12:21:40 It's been an office for one attorney.
12:21:44 >> It's a PD.
12:21:44 So we have the flexibility to waive those rules.
12:21:48 >>> Tough flexibility to waive the driveway width on
12:21:52 actual property, however would have to remain ten feet
12:21:59 wide.
12:22:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You have been sworn?

12:22:06 >>> Actually, I wasn't sworn, but I do.
12:22:08 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to close the public hearing.
12:22:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
12:22:12 >> Second.
12:22:12 (Motion carried).
12:22:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Plats the pleasure of council?
12:22:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move the petition.
12:22:23 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Second.
12:22:25 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
12:22:27 Do we have an ordinance?
12:22:30 Send it to legal?
12:22:32 >> Send the item to legal if one is not prepared at
12:22:35 this time.
12:22:36 >> We have a motion and second to send to legal.
12:22:42 Ms. Cole, do you have an ordinance?
12:22:47 >> I would be surprised if there was no ordinance.
12:22:48 I would have thought there was.
12:23:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes, there is.
12:23:02 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Miranda, she found it.
12:23:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
12:23:09 Move an ordinance rezoning property in the general
12:23:11 vicinity of 2715 Tampa Bay Boulevard in the city of

12:23:14 Tampa, Florida more particularly described in section
12:23:16 1 from zoning district classification RS-50
12:23:19 residential single family to PD planned development,
12:23:22 business professional office, providing an effective
12:23:23 date.
12:23:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Did we get a second?
12:23:27 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
12:23:28 (Motion carried).
12:23:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Nay.
12:23:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder, Nay.
12:23:35 Carried.
12:23:35 We need to open number 63.
12:23:38 >> So moved.
12:23:38 >> Second.
12:23:38 (Motion carried).
12:23:47 >>BARBARA LEPORE: Land Development Coordination.
12:24:15 I'm here to present the case WZ 07-52.
12:24:20 Petitioner is requesting 4(COP-R) wet zoning for sale
12:24:28 of beer and wine and alcohol at the location 201-217
12:24:32 South Dale Mabry Highway.
12:24:38 The sale of alcohol will be in association with the
12:24:42 restaurant.

12:24:43 According to the application, the restaurant would
12:24:45 have 90 feet and 70 of them will be inside.
12:24:49 Also, there will be 29 parking spaces.
12:24:52 The request is for a one-story building, and will be
12:25:04 on the corner of Platt and south Dale Mabry.
12:25:06 At this time, this site is under construction.
12:25:13 The wet zoning of this location was granted in 1997,
12:25:17 and the 4(COP-R), wet zoning was granted for the
12:25:22 location almost 5,000 square feet.
12:25:24 At this time, the petitioner is requesting the wet
12:25:27 zoning which would contain about 300 -- 3,000, I'm
12:25:33 sorry, square feet which is a downgrading of the
12:25:36 request for the wet zoning.
12:25:41 There are residential properties and also
12:25:44 institutional properties in the area.
12:25:48 The petitioner is requesting the waiver of the
12:25:49 distance separation between those properties.
12:25:54 Land development has no objection to the wet zoning.
12:25:59 The application has been sent to the department for
12:26:03 review.
12:26:04 Thank you.
12:26:07 >> Officer Miller, City of Tampa police department, I

12:26:09 have been sworn.
12:26:10 The City of Tampa police department has in a objection
12:26:12 to this wet zoning.
12:26:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
12:26:14 >> Brian Taub, Abbys way, the petitioner for W 07-52,
12:26:26 redeveloping a property located on Dale Mabry between
12:26:29 Cleveland and Platt Street.
12:26:32 >> Have you been sworn in, sir?
12:26:34 >> Brian Taub: I have not.
12:26:37 (Oath administered by Clerk).
12:26:38 >> We are redeveloping a site that was presently --
12:26:47 that was formerly known as a barbecue restaurant in
12:26:53 the retail center to the north of it, and we are
12:26:57 redeveloping for a shopping center with three tenants,
12:26:59 one of which is a restaurant on the south end of the
12:27:04 corner of Platt and Dale Mabry.
12:27:06 The restaurant's name is Paway Asian diner.
12:27:14 PF Changs, this is a now concept for them, and they
12:27:17 are expending it nationwide.
12:27:19 It's a 3060-foot square foot restaurant and it
12:27:23 overlaps a portion of what was -- that's why we are
12:27:28 asking for the rezoning, tore wet zoning.

12:27:36 It's a different concept, and it has no bar in it.
12:27:40 40% of it T food service is take-out, and less than
12:27:45 10% of all sales is the consumption of alcohol.
12:27:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
12:27:50 wants to speak on item 63?
12:27:54 >> Move to close the public hearing.
12:27:57 >> Second.
12:27:57 (Motion carried) 79 do we have an ordinance?
12:28:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move an ordinance repealing
12:28:06 ordinance 97-228 making lawful the sale of beverages
12:28:10 containing alcohol regardless of alcoholic content,
12:28:12 beer, wine and liquor, 4(COP-R), for consumption on
12:28:15 premises only in connection with a restaurant business
12:28:17 establishment on that certain lot, plot or tract of
12:28:19 land located at 201 through 217 south Dale Mabry
12:28:23 Boulevard, Tampa, Florida as more particularly
12:28:25 described in section 3 hereof waiving certain
12:28:28 restrictions as to distance based on certain findings
12:28:31 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict
12:28:33 providing an effective date.
12:28:34 >> Second.
12:28:34 (Motion carried).

12:28:37 >>GWEN MILLER: need to open item 64.
12:28:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to open item 64.
12:28:42 >> Second.
12:28:42 (Motion carried).
12:28:47 >>BARBARA LEPORE: Land development.
12:28:48 The petition number WZ 07-64 -- a 4 which is number 54
12:28:54 on your agenda, received a letter from the petitioner,
12:28:59 for withdrawal of this request.
12:29:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Need a motion to withdraw.
12:29:02 >> So moved.
12:29:03 >> Second.
12:29:03 (Motion carried).
12:29:03 >> Need to open 65.
12:29:10 >> So moved.
12:29:10 >> Second.
12:29:11 (Motion carried).
12:29:11 >>BARBARA LEPORE: Land development.
12:29:14 I have been sworn.
12:29:15 This is the petition for extension of WZ 07-55, at the
12:29:22 location of 2307 South Dale Mabry Highway.
12:29:25 Petitioner is requesting the extension of 2(COP-R),
12:29:29 the sale of beer and wine, in connection with a

12:29:32 restaurant.
12:29:37 Four years ago there was fire damage.
12:29:39 Last year, I should say in 2003, petitioner received a
12:29:46 wet zoning, 2(COP-R).
12:29:49 In the last year, actually granted the one-year
12:29:52 extension.
12:29:53 Unfortunately the extension on the 24th of
12:29:57 February in 2007 of this year, the petitioner is
12:30:00 requesting an extension.
12:30:03 He expects it might be finished.
12:30:11 We have no objections.
12:30:12 >>GWEN MILLER: What date do you want, May what?
12:30:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Extended time?
12:30:20 >> It will be extended to February 12, 2008. And it's
12:30:27 a resolution.
12:30:27 >> So moved.
12:30:27 (Motion carried)
12:30:27 >> Need to open number 66.
12:30:36 >> So moved.
12:30:36 >> Second.
12:30:36 (Motion carried).
12:30:52 >>BARBARA LEPORE: Land development.

12:30:53 I have been sworn.
12:30:56 This is the petition for the property located on the
12:31:08 block of 12th street and -- street and Cumberland.
12:31:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is that an extension?
12:31:17 >>> Yes.
12:31:17 >> How long?
12:31:18 >>> One year.
12:31:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Petitioner, do you want to waive?
12:31:30 >>> Good morning.
12:31:32 Mark Bentley.
12:31:34 I will waive, hopefully, otherwise I reserve my right
12:31:40 to put on -- [ Laughter ]
12:31:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to close.
12:31:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Can't close it.
12:31:46 It's continuance.
12:31:48 >> Continue for one year.
12:31:50 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Extension.
12:31:50 Extension.
12:31:54 >>> They got the wet zoning 18 months ago.
12:31:56 According to your code if you don't start within 18
12:31:58 months you can dry up.
12:31:59 He's asking for another year.

12:32:02 >> Take a little longer.
12:32:05 >>> So this would continue not to sell alcohol, until
12:32:08 March 29th, 2008.
12:32:11 >> Move to close.
12:32:12 >> Second.
12:32:12 (Motion carried).
12:32:13 >> Move to pass the resolution.
12:32:17 >> Second.
12:32:18 (Motion carried).
12:32:19 >>GWEN MILLER: All right.
12:32:22 Information.
12:32:22 Anybody have any -- Mr. Miranda, do you have
12:32:25 information?
12:32:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No, ma'am.
12:32:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?ding.
12:32:34 >>MARY MULHERN: I want to ask for some clarification
12:32:38 from legal from Marty about what we can ask as far as
12:32:44 how early we can receive the agendas for City Council
12:32:47 meetings.
12:32:49 I'm finding that getting them, the final agenda and
12:32:53 the reports the nature before, or this time it was a
12:32:57 little more than 24 hours, I would like to see if we

12:33:01 could get the final agendas for meetings before the
12:33:06 weekend on Fridays.
12:33:08 And what the rules are for that.
12:33:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY: With regard specifically to the
12:33:12 process of the agenda, it would perhaps be more
12:33:15 appropriate for Ms. Fox Knolls to address that.
12:33:20 With regard to your rules, as City Council, rule 7-A
12:33:25 on the general policy does state as a rule, all
12:33:29 petitions, communications, staff reports, resolutions,
12:33:33 ordinances, and other matters intended for
12:33:35 consideration of the City Council shall be filed with
12:33:38 the office of the city clerk on or before 10 a.m. on
12:33:42 the Friday previous to the Thursday regular meeting of
12:33:46 the City Council.
12:33:48 The city clerk in turn shall sign such resolutions
12:33:52 ordinances and other matters to the most appropriate
12:33:54 placement on the agenda.
12:33:55 So with regard to your backup material, council does
12:33:58 have a standing rule to have that material available
12:34:04 in the office of the city clerk by 10 a.m. on the
12:34:06 Friday previous to the Thursday regular meeting.
12:34:09 As regard to when that agenda can be presented to

12:34:12 council, I believe that would be appropriate for Ms.
12:34:15 Foxx-Knowles.
12:34:17 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: City clerk. The draft agenda
12:34:19 is available on Friday afternoon, late Friday
12:34:23 afternoon.
12:34:24 And the final agenda is available by Tuesday morning.
12:34:33 >>MARY MULHERN: And if I have a draft agenda and I
12:34:34 have the reports, then I can look at those over the
12:34:37 weekend.
12:34:37 But I'm thinking as we are talking about trying to
12:34:39 move these meetings more quickly, if we actually --
12:34:44 council had the reports and the information before we
12:34:47 sit down here and have more time to look at them, we
12:34:50 could speed things up.
12:34:52 So I would like to see ask that we get the report by
12:34:58 Friday.
12:34:59 >> Second.
12:34:59 If you are asking administration to speed it up.
12:35:06 (Motion carried).
12:35:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ms. Saul-Sena?
12:35:12 On the Elmo, please.
12:35:21 I received this photograph from a constituent, and we

12:35:23 see these periodically around the city.
12:35:26 Clearly, I'm not speaking to the newspapers, because
12:35:30 the newspapers are protected by first amendment.
12:35:32 That issue has been litigate add round the country.
12:35:36 And I believe that there's an appropriate place for
12:35:39 newspaper boxes.
12:35:40 My concern is all these other boxes.
12:35:43 I think what's happened is the commercial enterprises,
12:35:49 and I think it's mainly real estate and other types of
12:35:53 people trying to sell things have sort of taken
12:35:56 advantage of the situation and now cluttered up many
12:35:58 of our corners with this sort of thing.
12:36:00 And frankly I've seen many that don't even look this
12:36:02 well organized.
12:36:06 Now, there are some boxes downtown where they put them
12:36:09 all in one uniform box, which is a lot nicer and
12:36:12 aesthetically pleasing. Anyway, I would like a report
12:36:15 back from legal, and we'll start with legal.
12:36:20 In 60 days.
12:36:22 Is that enough time?
12:36:23 Just a preliminary report on can we regulate, you
12:36:28 know, these other boxes, the commercial boxes, not the

12:36:33 newspaper boxes.
12:36:35 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
12:36:40 I don't have time to get awful report.
12:36:44 >> How about 90?
12:36:45 >>JULIA COLE: 90 is better.
12:36:48 >> We can wait an extra 30 days.
12:36:50 >>JULIA COLE: I will research that issue.
12:36:53 I understand Ms. Kert will -- even with some first
12:37:01 amendment protections for the non-newspaper boxes
12:37:04 there are some things we can do to regulate them, so
12:37:06 allow me the opportunity.
12:37:07 >> There's a big difference between commercial speech
12:37:09 and non-commercial speech in the supreme court case
12:37:15 law.
12:37:15 So I appreciate that.
12:37:19 Staff motion is to come back in 90 days with a
12:37:22 preliminary report.
12:37:22 >> Second.
12:37:23 (Motion carried).
12:37:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Caetano, do you have anything?
12:37:28 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: No.
12:37:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Clerk, do you have anything?

12:37:31 >> Receive and file all the documents.
12:37:33 >> Second.
12:37:33 (Motion carried).
12:37:34 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Forgive me, council, just for
12:37:36 clarification, number 67 was the 11 a.m. workshop.
12:37:40 And I was just wondering what the disposition of that
12:37:42 was, if you can refresh my recollection.
12:37:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Mrs. Saul-Sena said do it at 1:30.
12:37:48 >>GWEN MILLER: We were talking about doing it after
12:37:51 the 1:30 one.
12:37:56 Number 67, TECO, after Hartline.
12:38:00 Is that okay with council?
12:38:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If it's still hanging, we haven't
12:38:07 made a motion on it, why don't we defer it till next
12:38:09 week?
12:38:10 Because I would like to be here for the discussion.
12:38:13 Charlie would like to be here.
12:38:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: For Mr. Dingfelder's benefit, I
12:38:23 know he has an interest.
12:38:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Defer 67 for one week.
12:38:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
12:38:33 (Motion carried).

12:38:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The 68 Hartline one, I heard the
12:38:39 same presentation last night because I went to the
12:38:41 public hearing so I'm not that concerned about 68.
12:38:43 But Madam Chair, whatever you prefer.
12:38:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Whatever council prefers.
12:38:48 Here it at 1:30?
12:38:50 Anything else to come before council?
12:38:52 Mr. Shelby?
12:38:53 >>MARTIN SHELBY: No, council.
12:38:54 >>GWEN MILLER: We stand adjourned till 1:30.
12:38:58 (City Council meeting recessed)

Tampa City Council
Thursday, April 19, 2007
1:30 p.m. session


The following represents an unedited version of
realtime captioning which should neither be relied upon
for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
The original of this transcript was produced in all
capital letters and any variation thereto may be a
result of third party edits and software compatibility
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.

13:37:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Tampa City Council is called back to
13:37:49 order.
13:37:50 Roll call.
13:37:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
13:37:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
13:37:58 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
13:37:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
13:38:00 We are now on our workshop.
13:38:02 Need to open the workshop.

13:38:03 >> So moved.
13:38:04 >> Second.
13:38:04 (Motion carried).
13:38:05 Who is speaking for Hartline?
13:38:23 I have handouts as well.
13:38:48 My name is Jane Chow.
13:39:02 I represent the Hillsborough Area Regional Transit
13:39:06 Authority, HART, for the extension of the streetcar.
13:39:10 Because federal funds will be involved in any design
13:39:13 or construction work, related to the streetcar
13:39:16 extension, documents must be prepared and submitted to
13:39:21 the Federal Transit Administration, FTA.
13:39:25 The documents must comply with NEPA, National
13:39:29 Environmental Policy Act, and demonstrate that any
13:39:34 environmental impact from the project have been
13:39:37 mitigated to FTA satisfaction.
13:39:41 The first step of this project is to submit the
13:39:46 environmental document to FTA.
13:39:49 We are here to provide with you for informational
13:39:53 purposes only, there is in a decision making that is
13:39:55 required at this point in time.
13:39:57 We are here to discuss how the environmental document

13:40:02 has been prepared.
13:40:03 With me is Robert Kersee from URS corporation.
13:40:08 URS is consultant for streetcar project.
13:40:13 Rob will provide a summary status regarding the
13:40:17 preparation of the environmental document.
13:40:19 The two alternatives that will be submitted to FTA, as
13:40:22 well as estimated capital, operating and maintenance
13:40:26 cost, as well as traffic issues and ridership
13:40:30 projection.
13:40:31 Finally, rob will discuss the vision of the streetcar
13:40:35 as it relates to the downtown Tampa area.
13:40:38 Again, this presentation is for informational purposes
13:40:41 only in regards to our submittal to FTA as part of the
13:40:46 environmental process to comply with NSA.
13:40:51 Rob.
13:40:57 >>> Thank you, Jane, council members.
13:41:00 I'm Robert Kerr see with URS, contracting with Hart to
13:41:05 provide the environmental assessment for the streetcar
13:41:12 extension.
13:41:12 I put together a presentation today where I am going
13:41:14 to go over of a few topics, primarily the status of
13:41:17 the streetcar, the changing conditions in the

13:41:20 corridor, the long-term streetcar vision, the proposed
13:41:23 streetcar extension, which is our project in detail,
13:41:27 and how we get there, the recommended alternatives
13:41:29 that we are moving forward, as Jane mentioned
13:41:32 submitting to FTA, and some key statistics on where we
13:41:36 go from here.
13:41:37 We begin by mentioning the streetcar's birth which
13:41:41 occurred back in October of 2002, the rebirth of the
13:41:44 streetcar.
13:41:44 The original ridership for the first year was 425,000
13:41:48 riders, and that exceeded the original estimates that
13:41:54 were 355,000.
13:41:58 As part of our analysis, we did an on board survey as
13:42:00 to who rides the streetcar at this time.
13:42:03 Not surprisingly, our results showed that about
13:42:05 two-thirds or 65% of the riders are visitors to the
13:42:08 city, 35% are residents of the city.
13:42:13 The current trip purchases are those who actually ride
13:42:15 in the system today, based on primarily tourism and
13:42:20 convention traffic.
13:42:21 There's some lunch and shopping activities that take
13:42:23 place during the midday period, and special events for

13:42:28 the streetcar itself.
13:42:30 But what we found is that presently, there are very
13:42:33 few trips on the streetcar that are used for work.
13:42:38 I would like to spend a little bit of time talking
13:42:40 about the explosive growth that is taking place within
13:42:43 the corridor right now.
13:42:45 What you see on this graphic, the blue line represents
13:42:48 the existing streetcar system and the streetcar
13:42:51 alignment.
13:42:52 And along the route what we have shown are existing,
13:42:56 planned and proposed developments that are taking
13:42:58 place within the corridor.
13:43:00 The yellow are the complete projects.
13:43:03 The pink are under construction.
13:43:04 You see a lot of development right now in the
13:43:06 Channelside district.
13:43:07 And the green are some planned large developments
13:43:11 within the area.
13:43:17 What this slide shows is it focuses a little more on
13:43:22 the Channelside district in the downtown area.
13:43:24 So what you see is very near the street car's current
13:43:29 alignment you see all the development that's taken

13:43:31 place along Channelside and you also see a lot of the
13:43:33 development that will be taking place in the central
13:43:35 business district area.
13:43:37 Complete or under construction over 3200 units.
13:43:40 An additional 11,000 planned units on the residential
13:43:44 side, and the forecast for new residents within the
13:43:47 corridor by the year 2010, at 7500.
13:43:53 Focusing a little on what's happening in Ybor City,
13:43:55 Ybor City as you know is traditionally, over the past
13:43:58 ten years, been an entertainment district within the
13:44:02 city.
13:44:02 What we are actually seeing and what our analysis --
13:44:06 analysis has shown is a lot of residential
13:44:09 development, multi-family development taking place in
13:44:11 the area.
13:44:11 Also, there's a re-interest in office development
13:44:17 within the corridor.
13:44:18 We are seeing especially with an architectural design
13:44:22 firm, construction, engineering, and those types of
13:44:27 firms going into the area.
13:44:28 So we are starting to see in Ybor City starting to
13:44:30 turn a little bit.

13:44:33 The reason we bring this up is we feel like within the
13:44:36 existing corridor, and with our planned extension,
13:44:38 what we are seeing is that there's an opportunity to
13:44:40 make the change in that ridership profile that we see
13:44:45 at this time.
13:44:45 We see that there is an opportunity to make the
13:44:48 corridor a live-work-play corridor, making the final
13:44:53 connection, extension toward the south.
13:44:55 For the south central business district allows us to
13:44:58 reach the employment centers, and make that tie-in to
13:45:01 the residential development that is occurring, and a
13:45:04 lot of the special interest activity centers, that
13:45:10 exist already within the corridor.
13:45:15 That being the case, let's talk a little bit about the
13:45:17 system as it was originally envisioned.
13:45:20 What you see here is the yellow line shows the current
13:45:22 alignment from Ybor City to the southern
13:45:24 transportation plaza.
13:45:26 The purple dotted line is a third of a mile which
13:45:32 constitutes the study which we are providing right
13:45:34 now.
13:45:34 Beyond that you see additional alignments and possible

13:45:38 phases that penetrate the downtown area, moving up
13:45:41 toward within the CBD into the arts district, and then
13:45:45 finally loops back to the Ybor City area.
13:45:51 Now focusing in on our studies specifically, this
13:45:54 graphic shows what our study area limits are.
13:45:58 The green line constitutes the proposed extension of
13:46:02 the streetcar from its current terminus to the east --
13:46:08 to the west side of the Fort Brooke parking garage.
13:46:16 Approximate to where the people mover was taken down
13:46:19 several years back. The entire length of the study is
13:46:21 one-third of a mile and the alignment exists within
13:46:23 the existing Franklin Street right-of-way which our
13:46:27 office has shown minimizes the environmental impact.
13:46:30 We are stopping here at Whiting Street because it's
13:46:33 the logical point to end.
13:46:36 Any extension beyond that point would go into the
13:46:38 esplanade and into Franklin Street.
13:46:41 Also, it incurs no additional operating cost to make
13:46:44 this extension.
13:46:46 The current number of vehicles, drivers that exist now
13:46:49 within the system, would remain the same.
13:46:53 There is a minimal increase on the operating side.

13:46:56 There are no significant environmental impacts as I
13:46:59 mentioned because we are within the existing alignment
13:47:01 of Franklin Street.
13:47:03 And we feel like this third of a mile allows us to
13:47:06 make that connection into the central business
13:47:09 district.
13:47:12 This just details some of the new connections that can
13:47:14 be made with this extension.
13:47:17 On the left you see the existing TECO line, which is
13:47:20 obviously adjacent to Centro Ybor, the cruise ship
13:47:25 terminal, the St. Pete Times Forum, all of its current
13:47:28 connections.
13:47:29 By providing this third of a mile extension we can tap
13:47:32 into 14,000 jobs within the central business district.
13:47:36 We can become much more proximate to the Hyatt and
13:47:39 Sheraton hotels.
13:47:42 Some 1300 new residential units that will be within a
13:47:44 quarter Milwaukee distance of the new station.
13:47:49 And it provides access to the Fort Brooke garage and
13:47:51 that parking facility.
13:47:56 When we went top our first public workshop, we took
13:48:00 six alternatives.

13:48:01 We looked at alignments within the Franklin Street
13:48:06 corridor, which included exclusive and shared track
13:48:12 options, single and double tracking options and
13:48:15 central and side running with the vehicle running
13:48:17 within the alignment with the automobile traffic.
13:48:23 We have gone before the streetcar Oversight Committee
13:48:25 which is comprised of people from the City of Tampa,
13:48:28 FDOT, the downtown partnership, and Hart.
13:48:32 We have also had two public workshops.
13:48:34 One this past Tuesday night.
13:48:36 Our information and the milestones of this study have
13:48:40 been reported to the MPO committees and the livable
13:48:42 roadways committee.
13:48:51 Based upon the results of our analysis and the input
13:48:54 received from these committees and the public
13:48:55 workshop, we are moving toward FTA with two proposed
13:48:59 alternatives. The first is alternative A-A, the
13:49:03 graphic here shows with the orientation with north
13:49:06 being to your right, that the alignment is on the
13:49:09 eastern side of Franklin Street, and the pull-out
13:49:14 graphic that you show, actually shows how the
13:49:16 automobile traffic and the streetcar will interface

13:49:19 with the streetcar, set of side-running position.
13:49:26 These graphics do a little better at showing what the
13:49:28 system will look like, if it is built.
13:49:31 What we have done on the photo on the left is we put
13:49:34 an existing shop from the Crosstown expressway
13:49:37 overpass at Franklin Street, looking to your north.
13:49:41 What we have done is in the photo on the right, it was
13:49:43 laid in what our streetcar alignment will be.
13:49:46 You see it within the existing right-of-way, and
13:49:53 all -- allows all the travel lanes to remain open.
13:49:57 One of the biggest concerns we heard from the
13:49:59 residents of Harbor Island at the first public
13:50:00 workshop is they were concerned about traffic impacts
13:50:03 if this project were built.
13:50:05 We have done a full traffic analysis.
13:50:08 And what we found is that by choosing these two
13:50:11 alternatives that we are moving forward, we are
13:50:14 leaving all the travel lanes open, we are not
13:50:17 precluding any of the existing turning movements of
13:50:19 the intersection, and what we are losing with this
13:50:22 alternative is we are losing some on-street parking
13:50:25 you see there on the right side, on the east side of

13:50:28 the alignment.
13:50:31 We also took a view to the south from the overpass,
13:50:33 and this is actually looking south toward the
13:50:36 convention center and Harbor Island.
13:50:38 Once again, the existing photo on the left, and the
13:50:40 rendering on the right shows that the streetcar is
13:50:43 moving up in a north direction, and it is still on the
13:50:48 external alignment, and what you see is that all the
13:50:52 existing traffic lanes are maintained, and the loss
13:50:56 that you have here, the median, is taken away in order
13:50:59 to keep all those lanes open and operational.
13:51:04 The reason we like this alternative, it's the lowest
13:51:06 capital cost.
13:51:08 The range is 3.7 to $4.3 million.
13:51:11 Federal funds have already been identified for funding
13:51:14 this project.
13:51:16 And this is an alternative that we can move forward.
13:51:21 It has negligible traffic impacts which are --
13:51:27 negligible traffic impacts, especially during events.
13:51:32 It's just an extension of what's already on the
13:51:34 ground.
13:51:37 Having improved operations allows us to stack more

13:51:41 vehicles and store more vehicles in order to meet peak
13:51:46 periods of command.
13:51:47 Alternative B-1 is very similar.
13:51:50 In this example we have the double tracking that you
13:51:52 saw in the first option actually pulse back to a
13:51:57 location of the Crosstown expressway.
13:51:59 What that does is that provides additional operational
13:52:02 advantages and allows to us store and stack vehicles
13:52:05 and allows more flexibility in the operation of the
13:52:08 system.
13:52:10 Once again this rendering is set up the same as the
13:52:12 last, where you see the proposed streetcar alignment
13:52:17 laid in.
13:52:18 You see the double tracking exists further back in the
13:52:21 graphic.
13:52:22 But, once again, with this, we were able to encroach
13:52:25 upon some of the parking of the surface street
13:52:29 parking, south of the Fort Brooke garage, and able to
13:52:33 once again maintain all the travel lanes and turning
13:52:36 movements.
13:52:39 The southern view is exactly the same, because the
13:52:42 double tracking does not begin until the Crosstown

13:52:45 expressway.
13:52:46 So you see with this graphic looking south for
13:52:48 alternative B-1, at this time same as A-1.
13:52:52 Why we are moving this alternative forward is because
13:52:55 of the moderate capital cost of 4.9 to $5.6 million.
13:53:01 Additional funding could be identified.
13:53:02 It will be a good alternative to put into place
13:53:05 because it does maximum and provide the best
13:53:07 operational improvements.
13:53:10 Once again the traffic impacts are minimized and it's
13:53:12 consistent with the existing design.
13:53:15 Traffic became a focus of this study because of the
13:53:18 comments that weighed at that first workshop, and
13:53:20 there were legitimate concerns of the residents of
13:53:23 Harbor Island.
13:53:24 We presented the results of a more detailed traffic
13:53:26 analysis at our workshop on Tuesday night, showing
13:53:31 them that given the current operations of the
13:53:32 streetcar during a one-hour period you have four
13:53:36 trains that would move to the north and four coming to
13:53:38 the south.
13:53:39 So you have eight vehicles crossing the intersection

13:53:42 of Channelside Drive and Brorein, but each vehicle, in
13:53:47 order to clear the intersection, only takes 3 seconds.
13:53:50 So there is no degrading of the level of service
13:53:53 standard.
13:53:53 It remains at level of service C under both the build
13:53:58 and no build conditions. With that we feel that the
13:54:01 traffic impacts are negligible.
13:54:04 As far as transit operations, as I mentioned, we
13:54:08 looked at both the exclusive track and the shared
13:54:12 option.
13:54:12 Traffic on the left shows the way the streetcar
13:54:15 currently operates and the exclusive track
13:54:17 environment. The shared track environment is actually
13:54:19 where it is in mixed vehicles with the automobile
13:54:21 traffic, where that might be a good option for future
13:54:25 extensions, we felt for our project it was not,
13:54:27 because recognizing a third of a mile of Franklin
13:54:30 Street is a very high congestion area, also an area of
13:54:33 high pedestrian traffic, and we felt like it would
13:54:35 just add to the confusion within the area, and it
13:54:38 would be difficult to maintain the current vehicle
13:54:42 traffic level of standard.

13:54:46 Part of our analysis we prepared ridership estimates.
13:54:49 This shows at the top you see the observed ridership
13:54:52 numbers from 2003 to 2006, 2007 we have half a year of
13:54:57 data for our current year.
13:54:59 What we have done is we forecast that based upon
13:55:03 historical trends and come up with an expected
13:55:05 ridership this year of 436,000.
13:55:08 The ridership forecast with the existing system, as a
13:55:13 baseline, we are projecting the existence of 477,000
13:55:17 riders.
13:55:19 With the extension, our project, we are estimating
13:55:23 44,000 riders a year.
13:55:26 With that, talking about the changing environment
13:55:29 within the downtown area, and maybe exploring the
13:55:32 option of operational changes in the future to meet
13:55:36 the demand of the work purpose trips, we also did a
13:55:40 forecast to see what the new boardings would be if we
13:55:44 expanded early service to 7 a.m.
13:55:46 What we found is in so doing we added another 116,000
13:55:50 riders.
13:55:51 So cumulative with our extension, and withholding an
13:55:59 option of service change to early hours an addition to

13:56:01 160,000 new riders to the system.
13:56:07 Some of the key statistics, I am going to talk a
13:56:09 little bit about alternative A-1, the one that we have
13:56:12 already identified, the federal funding for.
13:56:15 The annual operating cost for the extension is
13:56:19 $24,000.
13:56:22 As I mentioned, the operating conditions are not
13:56:25 changing from the existing system, and doing this
13:56:27 extension just adds some additional cost for
13:56:33 electrification and minor just a minute improvements
13:56:37 so 24,000 a year.
13:56:38 The estimated new boardings was 44,000, as I mentioned
13:56:42 in the previous slide, which creates an additional
13:56:45 fare box revenue annually of 60 -- plus dollars with
13:56:51 the estimate for cost and ridership we feel the
13:56:54 extension as I mentioned pays for itself from a
13:56:57 capital cost perspective and also pays for itself from
13:57:00 an operating cost perspective.
13:57:06 In summary, let me say that we feel that this project
13:57:09 is an investment in the future of downtown.
13:57:11 We all acknowledge that the downtown Tampa area is
13:57:13 changing.

13:57:14 There's a lot of development taking place in the area.
13:57:16 We feel like this is an opportunity with this project
13:57:19 to continue to support that growth, and be a part of
13:57:22 what is happening in the downtown area.
13:57:25 We feel that this provides a mobility solutions and
13:57:28 more options for those people in the downtown area,
13:57:30 and allows them to get away from their automobile and
13:57:34 relieve some of the impact on automobile traffic in
13:57:36 the area.
13:57:37 We also feel that this is a chance for the streetcar
13:57:40 system to go beyond just a recreational convention
13:57:45 center, visitor, tourism attraction, into something
13:57:50 that will actually be used on a daily basis by the
13:57:53 citizens of Tampa.
13:57:57 Where do we go from here?
13:57:59 We still have a presentation to make to the Hart board
13:58:01 next month.
13:58:02 We will complete our environmental process and our
13:58:05 analysis and send that up to FTA in Washington.
13:58:08 We will secure the capital funding that I mentioned
13:58:10 earlier that will pay for the construction of the
13:58:12 project, and that will initiate the final design and

13:58:16 construction of this project.
13:58:19 With that, we are available to answer any questions.
13:58:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
13:58:26 I appreciate the in-depth detailed analysis, and I
13:58:29 concur that there should be a much better place in the
13:58:33 City of Tampa by having the extension.
13:58:34 I have a couple of questions regarding the cost of
13:58:40 railroad.
13:58:41 With the existing system, and Ybor City, and the side
13:58:46 district that would cross again on Franklin?
13:58:50 >>> No, we do not.
13:58:51 There are no additional railroad crossings.
13:58:52 >> And your expansion plans, I guess you will cross a
13:58:56 railroad.
13:58:57 >>> Not with this current --
13:58:59 >> Not this one.
13:59:00 >>> Right.
13:59:01 With this extension.
13:59:02 >> I just want to make sure that we understand it, as
13:59:06 this thing continues to grow, and hopefully it does, I
13:59:08 think when it first started, they were innovative to
13:59:12 putt the streetcar in place because now the population

13:59:15 that you are going to have are not only in the
13:59:17 Channelside district but in the downtown district of
13:59:19 all the new development, the high-rises and so forth.
13:59:22 People are going to get used to moving without
13:59:24 automobiles, and I think that's a great asset to the
13:59:26 City of Tampa, and the same thing in Ybor City, what
13:59:29 you just put on the Elmo here, and I don't know who
13:59:35 gave Elmo the name but it's a good name for him.
13:59:37 And these things that will bring hopefully -- as you
13:59:40 are aware, in the 40s and the 50s, General Motors
13:59:43 took away the lifeline of a lot of cities, including
13:59:47 Cleveland, including Tampa, Florida.
13:59:49 If we would have had the rails existing of those taken
13:59:54 off the early 60s as the street cars came off before
13:59:57 then, we wouldn't be in the position where we are now
13:59:59 to spend these millions and millions of dollars.
14:00:01 And they said that the buses were a way to go.
14:00:04 And maybe it was for awhile.
14:00:06 But now as the area becomes more concentrated on
14:00:09 individuals living here, enjoying the quality of life,
14:00:12 when we first started with this thing and we had the
14:00:15 convention center, and no hotel, the visitors take you

14:00:20 talk about and the tourists always saw the streets
14:00:23 being rolled up at 5:00 in the afternoon.
14:00:26 This has given an opportunity along with development
14:00:29 to create an ambience where people would want to come
14:00:32 and play and see the sights and enjoy ourselves, with
14:00:36 the two big hotels now -- and I am not going to
14:00:38 mention the names because I'm not paid to do that --
14:00:41 but they connected with the convention center, it made
14:00:44 it a good thing for the city, and I think the
14:00:47 convention center is at least breaking even or making
14:00:50 a few dollars.
14:00:50 And that's what it's all about.
14:00:52 We can only offer these services -- and I agree with
14:00:55 you, I agree with Hartline that the system should be
14:00:58 expanded, because I think that the more we come in to
14:01:02 live in the urban center, the more transportation you
14:01:04 are going to need.
14:01:05 And if you think of San Francisco, what yeah, you
14:01:08 might think of the giants or the 49ers, but let
14:01:11 me tell you, what they are also thinking of streetcar.
14:01:19 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a question.
14:01:20 Can you tell me how long it takes?

14:01:23 Say I live in Ybor, and I'm going to gets off at the
14:01:27 end of the new extension, if you get that extension to
14:01:32 Whiting.
14:01:33 How long does it take?
14:01:41 >>> Under the current operating speed, the estimate
14:01:43 that I heard was 22 minutes.
14:01:45 >>MARY MULHERN: And is there talk about speeding it up
14:01:52 at all?
14:01:52 Is there a possibility?
14:01:54 >>> Those are issues that we could look at later down
14:01:57 the road.
14:01:57 The focus of this study was to look at an extension,
14:02:02 and we are estimating that if we maintain our current
14:02:04 level of service.
14:02:05 The only difference being that we go that extra third
14:02:08 of a mile.
14:02:11 >>> That is true, as Jane said within the context of
14:02:13 this study, at least have a nice base scenario. But
14:02:19 obviously as the system grows and the downtown area
14:02:21 grows, Hart and the streetcar board always have the
14:02:24 option of changing the operating system.
14:02:28 >>> I have taken a streetcar ride, everyone though I

14:02:30 lived here, and felt like a tourist, because I was
14:02:33 always going from one sort of tourist area to another.
14:02:36 But it feels like a very leisurely ride.
14:02:40 And I think as it becomes more of a raid to work,
14:02:43 that's something we'll have to think about if you want
14:02:45 people to do willing to take it to work.
14:02:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Other questions?
14:02:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have been thinking about this for
14:02:59 a number of years.
14:03:00 I was a previous Hartline board member.
14:03:02 This is the best, most succinct, complete
14:03:04 presentation.
14:03:05 Thank you for it.
14:03:05 I hope you will have the opportunity to provide it to
14:03:07 other folks who are concerned about this because it
14:03:12 clearly explains what is being proposed and I think
14:03:15 this is a very reasonable explanation.
14:03:16 It would be appropriate to take any action, Madam
14:03:19 Chairman, like --
14:03:21 >>GWEN MILLER: she stated we don't need to take any
14:03:24 action.
14:03:24 >> Well, I think an endorsement.

14:03:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I have a recollection of council pass
14:03:28 ago resolution that supported the streetcar extension
14:03:31 that's already existing.
14:03:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The new council hasn't had an
14:03:38 opportunity to do that.
14:03:39 I move we endorse the streetcar to Whiting.
14:03:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
14:03:44 (Motion carried).
14:03:52 There are three of you.
14:03:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone else to present to us?
14:04:00 >>> Jane: No.
14:04:01 Thank you very much.
14:04:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
14:04:03 We stand adjourned until --
14:04:05 >> Wait.
14:04:06 Remember the one that I said can we wait till the end?
14:04:10 At 11?
14:04:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm real fast.
14:04:17 I can do this in three minutes.
14:04:19 Let me pass this out.
14:04:22 This is 67.

14:04:23 >>GWEN MILLER: TECO.
14:04:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Right.
14:04:36 City Council, after 20 or 30 years, the City of Tampa
14:04:38 is negotiating a new franchise agreement with Tampa
14:04:42 Electric Company.
14:04:44 And City Council's role, the franchise agreement will
14:04:52 be negotiated with the administration, and then it
14:04:54 will be given to City Council to ratify.
14:04:57 And then -- I understand at this point talks are
14:05:01 stalled.
14:05:02 So we are not doing something like at the eleventh
14:05:06 hour.
14:05:06 We are going back to square one.
14:05:08 In an attempt to include something in this franchise
14:05:11 agreement that I have been working on for eleven years
14:05:13 I wanted to share with you just some basic
14:05:15 information.
14:05:15 There are three issues that I'm concerned about.
14:05:19 The most important is the question of taking overhead
14:05:21 it utilities and putting them underground. This is
14:05:24 something that hasn't been negotiated in the past.
14:05:27 It's something that's under conversation now, to not

14:05:30 take up a lot of time can council.
14:05:31 Way would like to do is set a special discussion
14:05:34 meeting on that.
14:05:34 But it's something that I would like to see included
14:05:37 in the franchise agreement.
14:05:39 The second thing -- and Wilson Stair brought to this
14:05:44 to my attention at the committee meeting, TECO
14:05:47 provides lighting.
14:05:48 And if we want to use decorative lights according to
14:05:50 our franchise agreement, we have to go with one of the
14:05:53 four lights currently provided.
14:05:54 Well, they go from uglier to ugliest, and frankly
14:05:58 there are lots of new attractive decorative lights out
14:06:01 there.
14:06:02 And I want the City of Tampa to have the flexibility
14:06:04 to choose among a wider spread decorative light.
14:06:12 Then the number of years of the contract.
14:06:14 From what I understand TECO fires 30 years in the City
14:06:18 of Tampa, 20 years, I'm thinking ten years.
14:06:22 The reason I want to share that with you is we all
14:06:24 know the field of energy is the most dynamic field and
14:06:28 it's tremendously important, people are applying a

14:06:30 number of alternative forms of energy, and we don't
14:06:34 know what the playing field will be.
14:06:36 And Mr. Miranda, I thought of you when I thought of
14:06:39 this analogy.
14:06:40 We don't want to overbug you for 20 years and might be
14:06:43 coming along with horses, carriages, right?
14:06:47 Miranda Miranda I guess.
14:06:48 [ Laughter ]
14:06:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The point is because energy is in
14:06:52 such a dynamic field, I feel the shorter our contract
14:06:55 the greater flexibility it affords the City of Tampa.
14:06:59 We have all seen that, for example, phone service used
14:07:02 to be only provided by one service provider and now
14:07:04 it's provided by a variety.
14:07:06 Similarly, power might be in the future provided by
14:07:10 alternative fashions by other providers.
14:07:12 So I just feel that it would not be appropriate for us
14:07:14 to unduly handicap ourselves in terms of what the
14:07:20 future holds.
14:07:22 And none of us can truly predict that.
14:07:24 So way would like to do is set up a meeting
14:07:28 specifically on the undergrounding, because the

14:07:31 electric -- because it's complicated, and can't listen
14:07:36 to it right now, so I would like to create a special
14:07:39 workshop meeting.
14:07:42 The utility companies and the neighborhood groups that
14:07:44 are interested and the council members that are
14:07:46 interested.
14:07:55 >>MARY MULHERN: Is anybody else talking about the
14:07:56 underground line?
14:07:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The administration -- no, they are
14:08:01 kind of thinking about it.
14:08:02 But the main thing that's changed is the Public
14:08:03 Service Commission.
14:08:06 Charlie Crist said if he was elected governor he would
14:08:08 work to get overhead utilities underground.
14:08:12 He's pointing new members to the Public Service
14:08:13 Commission who value this.
14:08:16 They are in the midst of rule making to provide some
14:08:20 incentives to accomplish it.
14:08:21 So it's a very dynamic time.
14:08:24 And frankly, whatever the state does, we'll we'll have
14:08:28 to go along with but I want to make sure the City of
14:08:30 Tampa is in a supportive posture to make sure that

14:08:33 undergrounding in our older areas is something we
14:08:35 aspire to.
14:08:36 In just in older areas.
14:08:43 >>> Every time the wind blows, we are like --
14:08:46 >> Yes, I passed along a letter to you --
14:08:49 >>> Doesn't happen he have day but every time there's
14:08:52 a storm.
14:08:53 >> Madam Chairman, I would like to set a special
14:08:55 discussion meeting in the next couple of weeks, not at
14:08:58 the council day but a different day.
14:09:01 >>> I want top say one other thing because I may not
14:09:04 remember.
14:09:04 But if you are going to look at what kind of light
14:09:06 posts we have, maybe we could get those energy saving
14:09:11 lights.
14:09:14 >> And I'm not sure if our existing contract with TECO
14:09:17 precludes our doing that, solar powered.
14:09:20 We might be tied in according to our existing
14:09:23 contract, their light forces.
14:09:26 That's the sort of thing I feel like we could be much
14:09:28 more innovative, we could be economic, and something I
14:09:31 would like to explore.

14:09:33 I would like to set this meeting for maybe -- it's
14:09:41 hard to know without everybody having a calendar.
14:09:44 I'll send around a memo asking people for a convenient
14:09:47 time.
14:09:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
14:09:50 Anything else to come before council?
14:09:51 We stand adjourned until 6 p.m
14:09:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to file the documents.
14:10:11 >> Second.
14:10:11 (Motion carried).
14:10:12 (City Council recess)