Help & information    View the list of Transcripts


Tampa City Council
Thursday, May 10, 2007
9:00 a.m. session

DISCLAIMER:
The following represents an unedited version of
realtime captioning which should neither be relied
upon for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
transcript.
The original of this transcript was produced in all
capital letters and any variation thereto may be a
result of third party edits and software compatibility
issues.
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.

09:06:39 >> Good morning.
09:06:40 This morning we have the pleasure of introducing
09:06:42 Pastor Don L. Wilson of Revelations International
09:06:46 Ministry.
09:06:47 He's going to give our invocation.

09:06:49 And then we will do the pledge of allegiance.
09:06:57 >> Please stand.
09:06:58 >> Father, we thank you once again for having an
09:07:00 opportunity to be blessed by you, to begin a new day.
09:07:03 And with a new day come new challenges.
09:07:07 So, Lord, we lift up this committee, this council,
09:07:11 Lord God, and we pray for your direction this morning.
09:07:14 We pray for unity.
09:07:16 We pray for clear thinking, Lord God.
09:07:20 And most of all understanding.
09:07:25 We thank you right now that we are able to look toe
09:07:27 you, in his name we pray.
09:07:31 Amen.
09:07:34 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
09:07:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Roll call.
09:07:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
09:07:58 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
09:08:00 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
09:08:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:08:02 >> We now have a presentation by Mr. Paul CATOE.
09:08:12 We'll come to that when he comes in.
09:08:14 Okay, we'll go to approval of the agenda.

09:08:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
09:08:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Do we have any items we need to pull?
09:08:31 Items by anybody?
09:08:32 We need to move the agenda then.
09:08:34 >> The sign-in sheet I guess is appropriate at this
09:08:38 point.
09:08:40 You had a substitution?
09:08:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
09:08:42 Ms. Julia Cole, off substitution?
09:08:45 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
09:08:48 An ordinance that I have given to Sandy.
09:08:55 You have that one, right?
09:08:59 Oh, sorry.
09:09:01 >>GWEN MILLER: What number is that?
09:09:02 >>JULIA COLE: It is item 6.
09:09:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 6?
09:09:11 No.
09:09:12 >>JULIA COLE: No, sorry.
09:09:15 >>THE CLERK: That's number 10.
09:09:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Substitution on number 10.
09:09:22 >>GWEN MILLER: When we get there we'll do the
09:09:24 substitution.

09:09:24 Are there any other items?
09:09:27 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe if council wants to take up
09:09:29 Mr. Smith's agenda issue now or after, but he's
09:09:33 requesting the opportunity to address the council.
09:09:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Smith, do you want to come now?
09:09:37 >>DAVID SMITH: city attorney.
09:09:42 I sent to you a memo yesterday.
09:09:46 I had an talk to talk to some of you so I have more
09:09:49 information and input from you.
09:09:54 Basically I'm requesting we take the agenda off the
09:09:57 item for minimum flow levels.
09:10:00 We are at a particularly sensitive stage in the
09:10:02 negotiations.
09:10:03 I think you would be very prudent for to us try to
09:10:08 give that a couple, three weeks or so to see if we get
09:10:11 that wrapped up.
09:10:12 It's my understanding it's very close to being
09:10:14 completed to the satisfaction, or probably not to the
09:10:16 satisfaction of all of the parties which is probably a
09:10:19 good compromise.
09:10:19 So I would request that we take it off the agenda.
09:10:22 What I also propose to do is I will make some time

09:10:25 between now and the next couple of weeks to talk to
09:10:28 each one of you privately on that issue, so you are
09:10:32 updated on the nature of the issue, the risks to the
09:10:36 city and the interpretation of that settlement
09:10:38 agreement.
09:10:39 It's essentially a matter in litigation, or may go
09:10:43 back into some more litigation if we don't get the
09:10:45 settlement finalized with, I this we will.
09:10:48 But I would like to update each of you one on one so
09:10:51 we don't have a public discussion about something that
09:10:55 a public discussion may work to the detriment with
09:10:57 respect to.
09:11:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Smith.
09:11:05 On occasion, when council has litigation and that sort
09:11:09 of thing, we have a briefing from you in a closed
09:11:14 session.
09:11:15 I know we did it at least once last term, you know,
09:11:20 pursuant to Florida statute, abiding by all the rules
09:11:23 of the closed session for litigation.
09:11:24 And I'm just wondering, since you state in your letter
09:11:28 that this is ongoing, related to ongoing litigation,
09:11:32 and your concerns of not discussing publicly a related

09:11:37 ongoing litigation, maybe a closed discussion like
09:11:39 that might be the easiest and most fruitful way for us
09:11:43 to deal with it.
09:11:45 >>DAVID SMITH: That's an excellent suggestion.
09:11:46 What I need to do, as you know what we used to call a
09:11:49 shade meeting.
09:11:50 I think I'll call them a closed session.
09:11:52 There is a statutory test for that.
09:11:54 I want to make sure we also meet the requirements of
09:11:56 that test.
09:11:57 So we have two different issues here.
09:11:59 We have got your rule 4-J, which has a somewhat more
09:12:03 liberal test for lack of a better way to characterize
09:12:06 it.
09:12:06 And I want to make sure the statute threshold, if um,
09:12:13 are cleared.
09:12:14 But if not we can certainly have a one-on-one
09:12:17 discussion.
09:12:17 It's imperative that you do know what's going on,
09:12:19 because any resolution is going to require the
09:12:23 significant expenditure of public funds, which is
09:12:25 uniquely within the pursue of this council to

09:12:27 participate in.
09:12:29 So I think it's important that you be apprised of
09:12:32 where we are and where we look up, even if it looks
09:12:35 like it's going to be resolved very soon.
09:12:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And I think as a follow-along, I
09:12:41 think that normally I don't advocate closed meetings
09:12:45 or shade meetings, but in this case, if you're
09:12:48 suggesting -- to me the best thing for us to do is
09:12:51 discuss it here.
09:12:52 But your suggestion is it's not a good idea because of
09:12:55 litigation and I respect that and I'm not disagreeing
09:12:57 with you.
09:12:57 So the next step in order for to us actually have a
09:13:00 discussion, I would say the next best thing for us is
09:13:04 to have a closed meeting upstairs in your office
09:13:06 recorded pursuant to the statute.
09:13:09 And then if you say that we can't do that because we
09:13:13 all fall within the shade meeting statute, then the
09:13:17 next thing I would say would be the one on one
09:13:21 briefings with you.
09:13:22 So I don't know if you prefer us to do that by motion,
09:13:25 or if you just want to -- I hate to just say that

09:13:30 that's my preference.
09:13:33 >>DAVID SMITH: It might be appropriate to simply put
09:13:36 on the pending calendar, and then we will have it no
09:13:39 matter what, even if we are going to have a larger
09:13:42 session, a closed session or a shade meeting, it's
09:13:45 still appropriate to have that one on one briefing in
09:13:47 the interim.
09:13:47 And you're correct.
09:13:49 I want to make sure the public doesn't misunderstand.
09:13:51 We are not going behind closed doors to resolve an
09:13:53 issue.
09:13:56 It comes out in the public and is over.
09:13:58 Anything and everything that is said in that meeting
09:14:00 is in fact transcribed and available.
09:14:02 It's simply for the purpose of not hindering
09:14:04 negotiations and settlement at a particularly critical
09:14:08 stage.
09:14:08 So it's good that you pointed that out to make it
09:14:11 clear.
09:14:12 >> So perhaps a motion might be in order, some of the
09:14:15 contingency motion.
09:14:16 I make a motion directing legal to research that issue

09:14:21 of whether or not to have a closed meeting, if the
09:14:25 statute is appropriate.
09:14:25 If it is appropriate, then go ahead and schedule us
09:14:27 for that.
09:14:31 And you have to notice it and schedule it and
09:14:33 everything else.
09:14:34 If it's your opinion that we don't satisfy the
09:14:37 statute, then just proceed on the one on one.
09:14:40 So proceed on the one on one regardless, I guess, so
09:14:43 that will be my motion.
09:14:48 >>MARY MULHERN: John, I agree it would be wise for us
09:14:53 to look into that closed door session.
09:14:55 But my feeling is, if this issue doesn't qualify as a
09:14:59 matter in litigation that would qualify for a closed
09:15:02 door session, then we should have the public hearing.
09:15:06 I don't think it would be right for us to be having
09:15:10 individual meetings not knowing if we all have the
09:15:13 same information.
09:15:14 And frankly, I had no idea that there was actually
09:15:17 still litigation over this.
09:15:18 I thought that the litigation was years ago, with the
09:15:23 friends of the river.

09:15:24 So I feel that if it doesn't qualify as a matter under
09:15:29 litigation now, then the public does deserve to hear
09:15:32 about it, and we should be able to talk about it.
09:15:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
09:15:38 I want to support Mr. Dingfelder's motion.
09:15:40 I think that would be useful.
09:15:43 I think putting things on the pending calendar is what
09:15:47 the clerk is now considering doing away with, and I
09:15:52 don't want this to go away forever.
09:15:55 I want -- eventually, something is going to happen,
09:15:59 either hopefully the litigation will be resolved,
09:16:05 there won't be litigation, everybody will agree.
09:16:07 Or if we need to go ahead and do something, it costs a
09:16:10 lot of money, council needs to talk about that.
09:16:15 So what I would like to suggest after John's motion is
09:16:17 maybe we put this on our calendar for the last meeting
09:16:21 in June prior to our 4th of July break, and with
09:16:28 the idea that either you can tell us everybody is
09:16:31 singing Kum ba yah or considering expensive litigation
09:16:35 and council needs to know about that.
09:16:38 >> My only point, I know Mr. Miranda wants as well,
09:16:41 but that date will not work for me because I'll be out

09:16:44 of town.
09:16:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Will the week before work?
09:16:48 >>> Unfortunately you caught me at a bad month.
09:16:52 I'm going to China and then I have a family reunion.
09:16:55 >> By mid July certainly things should be resolved.
09:16:58 >>> We will probably know sooner and I will be talking
09:17:00 with each of you sooner but that's certainly a good
09:17:03 fall-back.
09:17:03 >> I think one of the points that Mr. Dingfelder and
09:17:06 Ms. Mulhern made to know things individually is
09:17:10 extremely useful.
09:17:11 But to be able to, as a council, hear other people's
09:17:15 concerns and opinions and things is another -- it's
09:17:19 valuable.
09:17:19 That's why we meet collectively.
09:17:22 I think that's something we don't want to lose so I
09:17:25 hope this shade meeting will work.
09:17:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I just want to clarify my motion.
09:17:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Miranda.
09:17:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm not up to speed like the rest
09:17:36 of you here.
09:17:38 I'm a little behind.

09:17:39 But let me say this.
09:17:41 There's at least four parties in this litigation.
09:17:44 And I'm not going to name them.
09:17:45 But one is in Brooksville.
09:17:48 One is in Pinellas County.
09:17:50 One is in Tampa.
09:17:51 And a lot of other folks that live in Tampa by a
09:17:55 river.
09:17:55 So I think that gives you an idea who they are.
09:17:58 That being said, although it seems very simple what
09:18:04 the discussion is about, this could lead to a lot of
09:18:10 millions of dollars that the city will have to spend
09:18:13 in the future if these things are not negotiated out
09:18:16 in a proper manner.
09:18:17 What does that mean?
09:18:18 That means the minimum flows of level falls in the
09:18:23 responsibility of the administration.
09:18:25 After the negotiations are done, those things come
09:18:30 back to this body for either an approval up or an
09:18:33 approval down.
09:18:35 I think that the administration's due diligence be
09:18:39 that they meet individually, like Mr. Dingfelder

09:18:41 suggested, with each council member, to bring them up
09:18:43 to speed as to what's happening.
09:18:46 The lawsuit more likely, in my opinion, if it
09:18:51 continues this way, could be worked out by one Peter
09:18:56 party that's in Pinellas County maybe, not naming them
09:18:59 again.
09:18:59 But when they pay but when it comes time to give they
09:19:05 are a little hesitant.
09:19:06 So what I am saying is there's only three areas where
09:19:09 you can get water for the minimum flows.
09:19:13 And it's going to be difficult to meat those
09:19:16 objections.
09:19:20 The individuals in the Brooksville area know what they
09:19:23 are doing.
09:19:24 They are there to do the best that they can do for the
09:19:26 whole region, not just for Hillsborough County, but
09:19:28 for the region they represent.
09:19:30 And I'm going to vote to let the administration meet,
09:19:37 like Mr. Dingfelder suggested, with individual council
09:19:39 members.
09:19:40 I do not like putting my two cents in as an
09:19:47 administrator.

09:19:48 I am not an administrator, I am a legislator, and I
09:19:52 know my role is not that difficult unless I go out
09:19:55 looking for problems that I can't solve.
09:19:56 And as a legislator, I cannot solve an administrative
09:19:59 problem.
09:20:00 Thank you.
09:20:02 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
09:20:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I just want to clarify the motion.
09:20:06 I don't think I mentioned a time frame, did I?
09:20:12 >> I believe Ms. Saul-Sena did.
09:20:14 >> I was talking about a time frame for the closed
09:20:16 meeting.
09:20:16 And I would say no later than the next few weeks.
09:20:21 >> That's what I was going to say, two weeks.
09:20:24 >> Having a closed meeting works that cause a problem
09:20:26 with the delegation?
09:20:29 We have to have those transcripts given to the public?
09:20:34 >>DAVID SMITH: An interesting question.
09:20:35 And there's a direct answer and a more subtle answer
09:20:38 and I don't want to go into the subtle answer, but
09:20:41 hopefully we won't even need to have that.
09:20:44 Really, it's my understanding, we are that close.

09:20:47 I won't characterize what the remaining issue is for
09:20:51 hope that the remaining party will become reasonable.
09:20:54 But we would be reasonably prudent even in a closed
09:21:00 session because everything we say is transcribed.
09:21:02 This is an issue that will come back.
09:21:03 This is going to be about an every five-year issue
09:21:06 because there will be reevaluation on the signs and
09:21:08 the ecology of the results of what's done.
09:21:12 So I wouldn't want to do anything that would shoot the
09:21:15 city in the foot.
09:21:16 In the next five years.
09:21:17 But by the same token it needs to be adequate for you
09:21:20 all to understand where we are, so you can understand
09:21:22 why the commitment of the city dollars is a reasonable
09:21:26 thing to do in resolving this matter.
09:21:31 When we talk one on one, I think I clarified that a
09:21:34 little better.
09:21:35 >>GWEN MILLER: When we talk one on one we'll do the
09:21:37 same thing as behind closed doors?
09:21:41 >>DAVID SMITH: Probably not.
09:21:42 Probably tell awe few more, too.
09:21:43 >>GWEN MILLER: We'll get more information then.

09:21:45 >>DAVID SMITH: Yes, ma'am.
09:21:47 >>GWEN MILLER: And he would need information.
09:21:48 >>DAVID SMITH: Well, you will get more in the sense
09:21:50 that I know what I say, I won't rein the paper later,
09:21:55 but we won't have as much time.
09:21:56 So it's a mixed bag.
09:21:59 It's hard to conduct government in the sunshine.
09:22:03 Important to do but not always easy to do.
09:22:06 >>MARY MULHERN: I was wondering if we could hear from
09:22:08 Mr. Shelby about what he would recommend to us to do,
09:22:12 and I just want to say that I got the memo about ten
09:22:19 minutes ago and I don't think Charlie has seen it yet
09:22:22 so this discussion is getting lengthy because when
09:22:24 didn't know this was coming up.
09:22:27 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I had the opportunity to
09:22:30 discuss this with Mr. Smith at length.
09:22:33 I've also been privy to his conversations with some
09:22:37 council members.
09:22:39 Council, the more I learn about this issue, the more I
09:22:42 learn how complicated it is.
09:22:45 I believe council member Dingfelder's motion is a
09:22:48 prudent one.

09:22:48 I should remind council that after that motion, this
09:22:52 is scheduled to appear on next week's agenda, with
09:22:54 invitees.
09:22:56 So council may want to take some direction as to how
09:22:59 they want to approach this because it would be
09:23:01 discourteous, I think, to have people showing up with
09:23:03 the expectation of something that council has no
09:23:06 intention of hearing.
09:23:06 So I would just bring that to council's attention as
09:23:08 well.
09:23:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Saul-Sena?
09:23:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Smith, one of the points you
09:23:14 raise is really well taken, and that is what exactly
09:23:20 will council's role be, which is something I think we
09:23:22 all need to understand.
09:23:24 You said that certain things are done by the
09:23:26 administration, and then maybe contracts are brought
09:23:29 to council after they are negotiated for approval,
09:23:34 some expenditures might be brought to council.
09:23:36 When we have this shade meeting, that's something that
09:23:39 I would be interested in, clarifying, now, what
09:23:43 exactly is our business and what isn't our business,

09:23:45 and do we have the opportunity to participate, and
09:23:53 where the lines are.
09:23:54 I think that would be very helpful.
09:23:56 >>DAVID SMITH: I understand.
09:23:58 And I will make sure I cover that in the next few
09:24:00 weeks ago well.
09:24:01 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion on the floor.
09:24:02 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
09:24:04 Opposed, Nay.
09:24:06 (Motion carried).
09:24:08 All right.
09:24:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just on the agenda.
09:24:16 Hartline had a request, I think she had some
09:24:19 scheduling problems and she requested we move item 7
09:24:22 up to item 1 or 2 on the agenda and I think we can
09:24:25 give them that courtesy, if Madam Chair would.
09:24:29 That's a quick discussion on the streetcar extension.
09:24:32 And I think there's one Harbor Island resident who is
09:24:35 here to speak on that as well.
09:24:36 But other than that, I think it would be rather short.
09:24:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Shelby, didn't you speak to me on
09:24:43 that yesterday?

09:24:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: To refresh your recollection, this
09:24:49 was a presentation that was made.
09:24:50 Council member Dingfelder was absent.
09:24:53 He requested it be placed on the agenda to give the
09:24:55 public an opportunity to maybe address this whereas
09:24:59 they would not have under the sums this was a
09:25:02 workshop, and that's my understanding.
09:25:04 But with regard to a full presentation, I don't
09:25:06 believe there's any need for a repeat of the
09:25:09 presentation that was made previously to council.
09:25:11 Is that correct?
09:25:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No, I don't think it was a
09:25:13 presentation, I think it was just comments or perhaps
09:25:16 even a rebuttal from Hartline after Hartline wanted to
09:25:20 speak to it.
09:25:21 As you might recall Harbor Island folks got a little
09:25:24 bit upset because there was a vote taken and they
09:25:26 didn't think there was going to be a vote taken.
09:25:28 So that's -- anyway, that's at least one of the
09:25:33 representatives is here.
09:25:34 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is it council's desire then?
09:25:36 Because that would require obviously the approval of

09:25:37 the agenda, you can move things around however you
09:25:40 wish.
09:25:40 You can remove things from the agenda.
09:25:41 You can add.
09:25:42 But if you wish to then structure it so that you have
09:25:44 public comment on that item and then you phrase it a
09:25:49 rebuttal by Hartline staff, that would require a
09:25:51 waiver of the rules to allow public comment during
09:25:54 that item.
09:25:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Why don't I just go ahead and make
09:25:59 that quick motion?
09:26:00 I would like to move item 7 up to item 1.
09:26:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:26:05 >>GWEN MILLER: That's 2.
09:26:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Item 2, and allow for one
09:26:10 representative from Harbor Island to speak, and
09:26:13 perhaps have quick rebuttal from staff and be done
09:26:15 with it in less than five minutes.
09:26:17 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
09:26:18 (Motion carried).
09:26:23 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Again council going back quickly to
09:26:26 Mr. Smith's issue, regarding the minimum flow levels,

09:26:29 are still scheduled to appear on next week's agenda.
09:26:31 Is that correct, madam clerk?
09:26:33 >>GWEN MILLER: So we need to make a motion.
09:26:36 >>CHAIRMAN: We need to make a motion.
09:26:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm trying to.
09:26:40 I would like to make a motion we put this on the
09:26:42 agenda for the second meeting in July.
09:26:46 >>GWEN MILLER: We won't be here --
09:26:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No, excuse me, July 19th, under
09:26:53 staff report.
09:26:54 >>GWEN MILLER: we have a motion and second.
09:26:55 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
09:26:57 (Motion carried).
09:26:58 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I don't know the logistics of that.
09:27:01 But would it be prudent to notify those people who are
09:27:05 scheduled to appear?
09:27:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes, I would like the clerk to
09:27:09 notify all the people who are scheduled to speak.
09:27:11 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to approve the agenda.
09:27:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
09:27:14 >> Second.
09:27:15 (Motion carried).

09:27:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Now we go back to item number 1.
09:27:18 The Convention and Visitors Bureau.
09:27:29 Do you want to give a presentation for us?
09:27:31 >>> Suzy Holley: Good morning.
09:27:35 Well, next week is National Tourism Week.
09:27:38 And I thank you all for the commendation, I think.
09:27:50 >>GWEN MILLER: We don't have it today.
09:27:53 We have to get it to you.
09:27:57 >>> All right.
09:27:57 But thank you so much for getting that to us.
09:28:00 And on behalf of Paul Catoe, our Board of Directors
09:28:04 and our staff at the Tampa Bay Convention and Visitors
09:28:05 Bureau, we thank you very much for getting that to us.
09:28:12 We have lots of special things.
09:28:13 On Monday, we have the hospitality Olympics at Lykes
09:28:17 park.
09:28:17 So I hope some of you will come out and join us for
09:28:20 that.
09:28:22 And we have our luncheon which is an unluncheon.
09:28:32 You don't sit down.
09:28:34 You come and we have food stations at the performing
09:28:36 arts center.

09:28:37 So we do have some special events this week.
09:28:40 I hope you will try to join us for some of those
09:28:42 things and when you have gotten the invitations, so
09:28:48 any questions you may have of the Tampa Bay Convention
09:28:53 and Visitors Bureau?
09:28:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Any questions, council members?
09:28:59 We will come and participate with you.
09:29:01 >>> Please do.
09:29:02 Thank you so much.
09:29:03 Bye-bye.
09:29:04 >>GWEN MILLER: We now go to item number 7.
09:29:10 Who wants to speak on Harbor Island?
09:29:16 >>> John Fitzgibbon, 911 Warren circle, one of the
09:29:20 association presidents on Harbor Island.
09:29:22 We were not aware of the council meeting where you
09:29:24 voted on the streetcar extension recently.
09:29:27 Had we been here, we would have had a lengthy
09:29:30 presentation with a number of people, and would have
09:29:32 said the following to you:
09:29:34 Number one, the extension, we just across the board
09:29:40 oppose.
09:29:40 Number two, ridership as you know on the streetcar,

09:29:44 went to its all time low this last fiscal year of
09:29:47 ridership.
09:29:48 It's plunging.
09:29:49 Number 3, the endowment fund that has been used, that
09:29:54 applies to the street car, for the last two years, we
09:29:56 have been making chapter 119 requests.
09:29:59 We found an extraordinary document that the accountant
09:30:03 put together on December 20th for the streetcar
09:30:06 board showing the last two years they dipped into this
09:30:09 thing for $2.2 million and part of this is the
09:30:14 principal.
09:30:14 So any organization that's dipping into the principal
09:30:17 of its fund rather than using interest is an
09:30:19 organization in a lot of financial trouble.
09:30:22 This streetcar is in a lot of trouble.
09:30:24 We found another document, and I have to go very
09:30:27 quickly here, that appears to be the license that the
09:30:30 city, Hart and the county have when the people mover
09:30:34 was taken down.
09:30:35 And the license states that there shall be no crossing
09:30:39 of the intersection of plant, Platt Street, and -- the
09:30:46 key intersection in front of the convention center and

09:30:48 nothing is to be built within ten feet of the curb.
09:30:51 So this may be an improper extension.
09:30:53 I assume maybe the county can waive it at some point.
09:30:55 Then finally what aggravates us a great deal, every
09:30:58 argue we read, the city officials, the Hartline
09:31:01 officials say it's not our money, we are going to
09:31:04 spend four to six million but it's no local money,
09:31:08 it's going to be federal money, which seems to suggest
09:31:10 it's just a free pot of money, which is not true,
09:31:13 because it is taxpayers money that's going to fund
09:31:16 this thing, and it's a streetcar that nobody rides,
09:31:21 nobody in Harbor Island rides, it affects our traffic,
09:31:23 and it's going to get worse when this extension cuts
09:31:26 across that intersection of Platt street and
09:31:29 Channelside in front of the convention center.
09:31:30 It's a mess at rush hour now.
09:31:33 The traffic will be backed up to MacDill when the
09:31:35 streetcar meanders across that intersection at least
09:31:39 four times an hour according to what we have been able
09:31:41 to read.
09:31:43 I really think people need to study this.
09:31:45 We have been trying to make some noise the last number

09:31:47 of months as we have learned about it.
09:31:49 But it's the folly trolley as we call it.
09:31:54 It's a rat hole money has been going down and put a
09:31:59 plug we believe and just don't put bad money back into
09:32:02 this thing.
09:32:03 And I can give you a lot of other reasons.
09:32:05 But I guess my time is limited here.
09:32:07 We have been trying to follow this through these
09:32:10 workshops, and all of a sudden the vote came up and
09:32:15 none of us knew about it, or couldn't get organized
09:32:18 enough to do it.
09:32:19 But we would ask you to put the extension on hold,
09:32:23 answer these questions and many other questions that
09:32:25 we have, because this is going to be another Centro
09:32:29 Ybor for the city.
09:32:29 There's no doubt about it in our minds that this is a
09:32:34 failed financial investment for the city.
09:32:36 And it would have a great impact on us at Harbor
09:32:38 Island.
09:32:39 We have enough traffic problems as it is trying to get
09:32:42 on and off the island with our several thousand
09:32:44 taxpayer holders.

09:32:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
09:32:48 Representative from Hartline, would you come up for
09:32:51 rebuttal?
09:32:53 >>> My name is Jane shy and I'm the director of
09:32:56 engineering development for Hart as well as the
09:32:58 project manager for any proposed extension of the
09:33:01 streetcar.
09:33:02 I would like to clarify where we are in the process
09:33:05 for this project.
09:33:07 Right now, we are preparing the document for submittal
09:33:11 to FTA.
09:33:13 The first step of any project that involves federal
09:33:15 funding is to determine the environmental impact of
09:33:19 that project.
09:33:22 An environmental document must be prepared and submit
09:33:25 to FTA for review and approval.
09:33:29 Upon approval of that environmental document, then we
09:33:35 proceed to the next step.
09:33:36 We are not at the point currently of deciding whether
09:33:40 to proceed with the extension or not.
09:33:41 We are only here to address the environmental impact
09:33:45 to FTA.

09:33:47 And we must address those environmental impacts to
09:33:49 FTA's satisfaction.
09:33:52 When we submit the environmental documents, FTA will
09:33:56 review the document and either agree that the
09:33:59 environmental impact had been mitigated to the
09:34:02 satisfaction, or they'll say, no, we'll get the issues
09:34:05 again.
09:34:05 But until FTA approves the environmental document, the
09:34:09 streetcar cannot proceed with any further design or
09:34:13 any construction.
09:34:14 The purpose of our presentation last month was really
09:34:18 to provide an informational update to the City
09:34:22 Council.
09:34:25 No City Council vote or approval was required.
09:34:30 We were just providing an informational presentation
09:34:33 regarding the preparation of the environmental
09:34:35 document that we planned to submit to FTA.
09:34:41 In Fernandez to some of the issues that were raised,
09:34:45 ridership actually is on its way up.
09:34:48 I think there was one year which ridership did drop,
09:34:51 but we are on schedule now to actually be on track
09:34:57 where there is an increase in ridership.

09:34:59 I think it was one of those years where there was a
09:35:01 lot of activity regarding hurricanes and whatever and
09:35:06 tourism so it did impact the ridership for the
09:35:09 streetcar.
09:35:09 But we are on track for increased ridership and
09:35:12 actually project that this will probably be one of the
09:35:16 better years for ridership for the streetcar.
09:35:19 I have with me as well Robert Crosby and he can
09:35:24 address whatever traffic issues.
09:35:26 And I think that we have resolved or looked at the
09:35:28 traffic issues to the satisfaction or addressed the
09:35:32 issues for the Harbor Island residents.
09:35:34 But I must also remind you that the presentation is
09:35:37 for informational purposes only for the filing of the
09:35:40 environmental document.
09:35:42 Upon approval of that environmental document from FTA,
09:35:45 we will then come before the City Council, before the
09:35:49 streetcar board, before the Hart board, for decision
09:35:52 making as to what to do with this project, to proceed
09:35:55 or not to proceed.
09:35:56 So right now, I think some of the issues that are
09:35:59 being raised are a little preliminary.

09:36:02 As I said, we are only here to talk about, are we
09:36:07 going to be able to mitigate the environmental impact
09:36:09 of the project to FTA's satisfaction?
09:36:15 >>> Rob Cureau.
09:36:21 Two public workshops were raised by the Harbor Island
09:36:23 residents about the impacts of traffic.
09:36:25 And we took that into consideration to provide the
09:36:37 most minimal impact.
09:36:38 As the gentleman stated the streetcar in its current
09:36:41 service frequency would be crossing those
09:36:44 intersections four times in each direction per hour.
09:36:48 Our traffic analysis showed that the crossing, those
09:36:51 crossings will take only three seconds, and that will
09:36:53 slightly -- that will provide only a minimal impact to
09:36:58 the intersection, and it will not degrade the level of
09:37:01 service within the area.
09:37:03 So we feel that traffic is a negligible impact with
09:37:07 the proposed extension.
09:37:08 Thank you.
09:37:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
09:37:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Will you make sure that you get
09:37:17 with Mr. Fitzgibbons in?

09:37:19 He was talking about a particular county document that
09:37:21 I never heard of and just get a copy and make sure we
09:37:24 have that issue a dressed.
09:37:26 But thank you.
09:37:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
09:37:29 We now go to item number 2.
09:37:32 Karen Palus.
09:37:47 >>> Karen Palus, parks and recreation director, item
09:37:50 number 2 and number 3 combined, as well as the request
09:37:54 from last week to just talk briefly about the report
09:37:59 that I provided.
09:38:00 The PowerPoint?
09:38:03 Okay.
09:38:07 As far as the number -- there are 25 public boat
09:38:13 ramps.
09:38:13 Five of them are in the City of Tampa and those are
09:38:15 the ones that we prayed, unincorporated Hillsborough
09:38:22 County.
09:38:23 As far as the number of boat slips available to the
09:38:25 public we estimate, and this is a report that was
09:38:27 recently done by Hillsborough County parks and
09:38:29 recreation conservation that over the last five years

09:38:33 a total of 500 dry slips and 320 dry slips due to
09:38:39 changes in our waterway area.
09:38:42 And last but not least on this particular item, we
09:38:44 wanted to share with you some of the things that we
09:38:46 are doing.
09:38:47 We are continuing to dialogue with the other
09:38:50 municipalities, Pinellas and Hillsborough, their
09:38:53 waterfront endeavors to see what strategies they are
09:38:57 taking and things that they are looking at for fiscal
09:39:00 impact as well.
09:39:02 Additionally our community planning division will be
09:39:04 working with us through the comprehensive plan, and
09:39:07 one of the things determined in 2005 is we are
09:39:10 required to look at our working water fronts to try to
09:39:13 protect and preserve those so you will see that as a
09:39:15 comprehensive plan which is anticipated to come before
09:39:18 you towards the end of the year.
09:39:22 As far as the city agreement, I am going to give you
09:39:24 kind of a quick overview of where we are at, what we
09:39:27 have been looking at and some of the things that are
09:39:29 opportunities for to us come.
09:39:35 Did I lose it?

09:39:39 There we go.
09:39:42 Right now we have 38 slips that are out there.
09:39:45 They are in a very difficult situation as far as
09:39:51 amenities and our different features there, and need a
09:39:55 lot of work.
09:39:55 And we do have the permits and such already in place
09:39:58 for those 38 slips that are existing, as well as the
09:40:02 dredging permits so we look to try to move forward
09:40:06 with that.
09:40:07 The additional plan has been in place for quite
09:40:09 awhile, asks for 62 additional that are floating docks
09:40:14 out in the channel as well as seven additional to the
09:40:16 north.
09:40:17 So that estimate, construction and administration
09:40:22 department, for all of those improvements for the
09:40:24 total amount of slips that are available there.
09:40:26 $5 million is a lot of money to put into marina
09:40:30 operations.
09:40:31 We have looked at funding operations.
09:40:33 There are some funding options on Bayshore that allows
09:40:35 to us look at public-private partnerships so the slips
09:40:39 are still available to the public but there's someone

09:40:41 else besides the city looking to invest in those
09:40:43 capitals.
09:40:44 So right now staff is exploring other municipalities
09:40:47 looking at agreements, seeing what's available out
09:40:50 there, innovative and creative to be able to provide
09:40:55 services such as boat slips in the community without a
09:40:59 capital outlay from the city itself.
09:41:02 And we are eligible as well for a CIP and utilities
09:41:06 bond and we do have estimates from our budget office
09:41:10 that we would be able to cover that bond at about $9 a
09:41:14 foot.
09:41:14 It doesn't cover any operating costs there so there is
09:41:17 some possibility there as well.
09:41:19 Because Bayshore is for monthly slip rental there are
09:41:25 currently no grant opportunities. If they were to be
09:41:29 more of a day use and short-term use then there would
09:41:31 be some grant opportunities available.
09:41:37 This is just a quick diagram.
09:41:38 We have 38 slips that are there from the area that's
09:41:41 right adjacent to the land.
09:41:43 The 62 oat waterway and the additional seven to the
09:41:48 north.

09:41:48 I apologize for the diagram.
09:41:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can you go back for a minute?
09:42:01 The only reason I am interrupting is I think each of
09:42:03 these marinas is rather unique so I think it's more
09:42:07 efficient to talk about each one separately.
09:42:09 If you could go to the picture.
09:42:12 Just to clarify.
09:42:14 Basically, the existing slips went across there at the
09:42:20 top of the picture.
09:42:21 And then there's never been those additional slips,
09:42:25 the floating docks that you refer to out in the
09:42:28 middle.
09:42:28 So those will be the potential to add those.
09:42:31 And you said -- what did you say?
09:42:34 We have applied for those, or we have withdrawn them?
09:42:37 >>> Withdrawn.
09:42:38 We have all of the plans.
09:42:39 They have been drawn for awhile.
09:42:44 The documents for that.
09:42:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We feel confident they could be
09:42:48 permitted?
09:42:49 >>> Yes.

09:42:50 Based on the information at that time.
09:42:51 And again the dredging in that area is already
09:42:55 permitted and we need to keep that active.
09:43:00 >>MARY MULHERN: I had a quick question.
09:43:02 When you said that we could get grants if they were
09:43:05 daily?
09:43:06 Why aren't we thinking about that?
09:43:08 Is there a reason we are only going to have monthly
09:43:10 slips?
09:43:11 >>> The request has been for us currently is for
09:43:13 monthly slips.
09:43:13 And those are the types of slips on the waterfront
09:43:18 currently.
09:43:19 We have right now the Bayshore, there's 24 people
09:43:24 already signed up looking for a monthly rental.
09:43:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The bottom part here with Bayshore
09:43:34 marina built out, renovation slips, 38 additional, 62
09:43:39 slips in the channel and seven north of the existing
09:43:42 slips for a cost of $5 million.
09:43:43 Is that the total package of 62-plus 38?
09:43:46 Or is it the 38 by itself?
09:43:49 >>> It's the total package.

09:43:50 >> Total package.
09:43:51 In other words, the 38 that we do from scratch, the
09:43:58 existing amount of slips on Bayshore is what?
09:44:03 >>> I don't have that number right off my head but
09:44:07 it's probably $9 million.
09:44:09 >> I'm looking at something that happened in 2002.
09:44:13 I don't know where I got this from.
09:44:17 It says here option 1 would be the 36 slips that was
09:44:20 originally there would cost $419,000.
09:44:24 I know that's 2002.
09:44:26 Without improvements.
09:44:27 Without water.
09:44:30 And basic options with improvement of water and power
09:44:33 was 7,18500.
09:44:38 And 3 with slips from 36 to 43 was 1,033,620 dollars.
09:44:47 And I know there's been a cost increase and that's why
09:44:53 I like to see the differential between what we are
09:44:55 talking about the existing and the additional.
09:44:57 I'm not one that likes many private-public
09:45:03 partnerships and let me tell you why.
09:45:05 If somebody in the private sector can do something
09:45:07 better than me here, then I belong out of here.

09:45:10 They should sit here and run the city.
09:45:13 Not that I'm running the city.
09:45:15 But when somebody says I'm going to give you this, if
09:45:17 you give me that, they are not giving you that for
09:45:21 free.
09:45:21 They are giving you that with something in mind they
09:45:25 are going to get their investment back plus some
09:45:27 additional profit.
09:45:28 I'm very sticky about the waterfront because I think
09:45:30 that belongs totally to the public.
09:45:32 And once we start doing this, you have got to get an
09:45:36 additional flush when the riverfront completed, and I
09:45:40 talked about this not too long ago, that it's been a
09:45:45 continuation of five mayors -- Poe, Martinez,
09:45:50 Freedman, Greco, and Iorio. And they have all
09:45:54 contributed some part to the riverwalk.
09:45:57 What I'm saying is, and I hate to go back to Michigan,
09:46:02 but they have a great waterfront and a lot of boats.
09:46:05 I think it's the second most populated boat capital in
09:46:09 the United States.
09:46:10 And the docks that you're talking about are the one
09:46:14 that is I have seen in Michigan, and most of them are

09:46:18 public.
09:46:18 So what I'm saying is, at what point do we say, how do
09:46:22 we get -- and I'm sure you have done this homework --
09:46:25 how do we get what we want without private investment?
09:46:29 When the riverwalk is completed, I'm worried,
09:46:33 concerned that if we do something like this with this
09:46:36 private partnership, government partnership, that when
09:46:40 that's completed, I would imagine it's to have docks
09:46:48 along the waterfront.
09:46:49 And I certainly don't want those to go private.
09:46:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
09:46:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: About I met about this briefly.
09:47:01 I think it's staff's intent to explore the
09:47:03 public-private partnership as an option.
09:47:06 And possibly put out an RFP and see what comes back.
09:47:10 As you know, you put out an RFP, if you don't like
09:47:13 what comes back, then you throw it all in and you are
09:47:15 where you started.
09:47:16 I think that's a reasonable approach.
09:47:19 I think just to explore it and get the information,
09:47:23 see what's out there and see what our options are.
09:47:26 And the reason I wanted to come back to this picture,

09:47:29 council, is right now, we have got 38 slips across the
09:47:35 top.
09:47:35 And that is the public's.
09:47:37 And, Charlie, I agree with you and I will fight side
09:47:41 by side with you hand in hand that that should always
09:47:43 be if public's.
09:47:46 The public should have the right to rent those at a
09:47:48 reasonable rate, just as they always have.
09:47:51 And I think that that's appropriate.
09:47:52 But the public has never had the slips below that,
09:47:57 okay?
09:47:57 So I think if the private sector could come in and
09:48:02 rebuild the whole thing -- and part of what I was
09:48:05 looking at on your 2002 thing is that that speaks to
09:48:09 renovating, it says at the top, renovation options.
09:48:14 I think in 2002 it would be possible to renovate those
09:48:17 wood docks, because they weren't, as bad as they are
09:48:24 now, but five years have gone by and they have
09:48:26 completely fallen apart.
09:48:28 Most of them are basically not even habitable and
09:48:31 that's why we aren't using them now. Anyway, long
09:48:34 story shot, I think that the private sector could

09:48:37 possibly come in and rebuild the whole thing into a
09:48:40 real spiffy brand new floating dock, fiberglass,
09:48:45 et cetera, thing, then we could reserve the right to
09:48:48 some type of continued and forever control over the
09:48:52 mainland 38 slips, and then the private sector could
09:48:55 let the market dictate the price of the floating docks
09:48:59 out in the water.
09:48:59 That's just an idea.
09:49:01 I'm sure it's an idea that parks has thought about
09:49:04 loosely.
09:49:04 And I don't have a problem with letting them continue
09:49:06 to explore it.
09:49:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I agree.
09:49:18 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: At the present time I'm not in
09:49:19 favor of increasing any slips.
09:49:21 We are talking about reducing police department, fire
09:49:23 department.
09:49:24 To me, this is a frivolous expense.
09:49:27 We are going to do away with the charitable
09:49:30 organizations.
09:49:31 We are going to cut their funding.
09:49:33 And this private partnership, the east-west roadway,

09:49:37 we are waiting for that up into New Tampa area and
09:49:40 there's supposed to be a company that's going to build
09:49:42 this from somewhere, I don't know where they are
09:49:44 coming from, but I think this stuff ought to wait till
09:49:47 after the budget.
09:49:48 Because there's going to be some people cut and
09:49:50 there's going to be people hurt.
09:49:55 And I don't think this is an important issue that he
09:49:57 would should be taking today or making any movement.
09:49:59 I hear all these studies, these public-private
09:50:02 partnerships.
09:50:02 Like Mr. Miranda said, in '02, Mr. Dingfelder just
09:50:07 said the slips that are there are falling apart.
09:50:09 To me that's a frivolous expense.
09:50:12 Let's wait till after the budget.
09:50:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Let us move on with the presentation.
09:50:18 We cut into that.
09:50:19 Go ahead, Mrs. Palus.
09:50:21 >>> Thank you.
09:50:22 We really are trying to provide those slips out there
09:50:24 to the public.
09:50:25 That is our intent overall.

09:50:27 And make sure they are available to folks.
09:50:29 And we are just trying to find some innovative ways of
09:50:32 exploring those options that other municipalities have
09:50:34 explored as well.
09:50:39 Obviously there is limited parking there, and also
09:50:41 there are no amenities such as shower facilities and
09:50:44 restrooms and such.
09:50:45 Moving a longs, we do have our convention center
09:50:47 slips, 27 there currently to. Build them out, the
09:50:53 amenities you can ask for, additional water and
09:50:57 electric which will allow for longer item stay versus
09:51:00 just a normal day use, the short term up to about ten
09:51:05 days, especially as we continue to develop on the
09:51:09 riverwalk and events and activities down there.
09:51:11 There are matching grants available.
09:51:12 So we will continue to explore in that area as well
09:51:14 for those folks.
09:51:28 There are no restroom facilities unless the convention
09:51:30 center is open for an event.
09:51:34 There is some limited parking and again they will
09:51:39 probably only need to go to those facilities at
09:51:41 Marjorie to work.

09:51:43 It is doable and is something that we can accomplish
09:51:44 there.
09:51:46 Davis Island sea plain basin, 13 to 16 permanent
09:51:52 moorings, about $300,000 currently.
09:51:54 We have some funding that we would like to explore
09:51:58 there as well with some public-private partnerships.
09:52:01 There are if we choose to make those particular
09:52:03 permanent Moorings more of a day use, short-term stay,
09:52:08 ten-day maximum type of area.
09:52:10 There are some matching grants available.
09:52:11 We do have the option of a CIP as part of our utility
09:52:15 tax bond to be able to pay for that and do more of a
09:52:18 monthly.
09:52:19 This would be permanent mooring field areas that are
09:52:22 done in that location where the boats are permanently
09:52:28 moored, versus mooring themselves with whatever
09:52:32 utensils they are currently using out there.
09:52:35 I want to show you the design of Davis Island. This
09:52:37 is the area that's currently delineated.
09:52:40 We have a TIA easement out there for the sea plane
09:52:46 basin.
09:52:46 You will see that it runs through and has the areas to

09:52:48 the top of the diagram.
09:52:50 You will have at the bottom of the very tip is the
09:52:52 Davis islands.
09:52:58 We also have the 300-foot beach front.
09:53:01 We are currently working with all those entities for
09:53:04 our agreements and finalize this that will be filling
09:53:08 up very soon in that area, do not allow mooring in
09:53:11 those yellowed locations.
09:53:16 As it's done now in that center space but that will be
09:53:20 moving forward as we continue to remove the derelict
09:53:22 vessels.
09:53:23 If you saw the paper this morning you will notice that
09:53:25 we already removed several.
09:53:28 There's two more to come out today and we are
09:53:30 continuing to work on those and remove the derelict
09:53:36 ones from the basin.
09:53:38 Some of the challenges with the -- is there are some
09:53:41 additional restrictions coming up on the Davis Island
09:53:45 that we are monitoring with the department.
09:53:49 We are working with the state to provide the buoy
09:53:52 designations so they will be able to know where they
09:53:55 can and can't moor.

09:53:56 And with that site if we get anything permanent there
09:53:59 is no on-site facilities such as restrooms or
09:54:02 pumpouts.
09:54:04 Again those boaters would have to go up to Marjorie
09:54:06 first to check in, be able to be issued a slip and/or
09:54:10 use the facilities.
09:54:11 Any questions of either one of those?
09:54:15 Moving into Marjorie Park.
09:54:18 It's a very successful marina. We are doing very
09:54:22 well. The buildout has an additional 76 slips to the
09:54:25 tune of about $3 million.
09:54:26 And the only funding options currently in that
09:54:29 location is CIP utility tax funds.
09:54:32 There are no other grant fundings. The request there
09:54:36 we already have about 22 day slips for a maximum of
09:54:39 ten-day stay at that location.
09:54:41 So they are requesting, the folks that are there
09:54:44 currently, as of yesterday, we had 87 that are on the
09:54:48 wasting list currently that are waiting.
09:54:55 One of the challenges of Marjorie is the current slips
09:54:57 that are there did do not cover the debt service.
09:55:00 For us to be able to cover that debt service we would

09:55:02 have to go up to about $26 a foot which is not in the
09:55:06 price market of being public and being accessible to
09:55:09 most folks.
09:55:09 However, we did the buildout, we would be able to pay
09:55:13 for the existing debt service as well as the new debt
09:55:16 service at about $15 a foot.
09:55:18 Again, all of those are based on those bonds and
09:55:23 covering the debt service.
09:55:24 That does not covering operating of that facility
09:55:26 which is currently in the parks and recreation budget
09:55:30 so everybody is clear on that.
09:55:32 I'll show you a picture.
09:55:34 The docks that are built currently for Marjorie if you
09:55:36 come around from the top up here, the channel, it's a
09:55:39 one, two, three, four, those are the one that is are
09:55:41 built out there now.
09:55:42 The three that are left are the internal and around
09:55:45 the following area there along the drive.
09:55:48 Those are the ones that are left to be built.
09:55:50 There's four docks built.
09:55:53 And there's three left.
09:55:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If I could, Madam Chair?

09:55:58 How many slips, permanent slips do we have there?
09:56:02 >>> There's 38 slips there.
09:56:05 >> And does that include the transient slips?
09:56:08 >>> No.
09:56:08 There's 22 additional.
09:56:10 >> 22 transients and day slips and then there's 32?
09:56:14 >>> 32.
09:56:15 >> Permanent.
09:56:16 And then we have the potential in the basin to do
09:56:20 another 76.
09:56:21 >>> Yes.
09:56:22 >> And looking at the picture that's down at the
09:56:24 bottom, circles all around.
09:56:34 And dock, what, B and C?
09:56:36 And then the other ones are already done.
09:56:39 >>> Right.
09:56:40 >> Okay.
09:56:40 And I have been hearing this quite a bit, and Ms.
09:56:43 Saul-Sena, I bet you have, too, from Davis Island
09:56:46 folks, that say we have invested a lot of money into
09:56:50 that basin.
09:56:51 We rebuilt the seawalls.

09:56:53 We cleaned out the basin.
09:56:55 I think we did some dredging.
09:56:57 We built the building.
09:56:59 And this is all under your watch before.
09:57:06 And we did a great job of nesting but then we stopped
09:57:09 short because we sort of ran out of money in terms of
09:57:12 building out those 76 additional slips.
09:57:19 And Mr. Caetano, I know many people would agree that
09:57:24 maybe the city shouldn't be in the boat slip business
09:57:27 at all.
09:57:28 But this is an interesting business question.
09:57:30 Because it's sort of an economy of scale type thing.
09:57:41 We are only operating this with 36-something slips to
09:57:45 rent.
09:57:46 How big, Karen?
09:57:48 >>> Right now the numbers as of yesterday, those who
09:57:52 reupped are 87.
09:57:53 >> We have a waiting list of 87 folks with big or
09:57:56 medium size boats that could fit in all these slips,
09:57:59 that all we have to do is build it out.
09:58:01 If we build it they will come.
09:58:08 Again I think it's something we should explore in a

09:58:10 big way to finish this thing out so we can make more
09:58:12 money to repay the debt that we already have there.
09:58:19 >> Mr. Dingfelder, I would like to follow up on that.
09:58:21 The old saying build it and they will come, they built
09:58:23 the houses out where I live.
09:58:25 Ain't no way to get there.
09:58:27 The roads are jammed.
09:58:28 Terrible.
09:58:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I hear you.
09:58:31 But the statistics that we are seeing earlier in this
09:58:34 presentation says that the county -- and that's
09:58:36 countywide.
09:58:37 But we all know that we are losing slips across the
09:58:40 entire area.
09:58:43 They estimate that we have lost 500 dry slips and 320
09:58:46 wet slips. The demand is building and is building.
09:58:49 And as long as the city -- we have already got a big
09:58:52 investment there.
09:58:53 I think we should look at the possibility of building
09:58:56 this.
09:58:56 And I don't think the city would do it if it's not a
09:59:01 good business decision.

09:59:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This is one of the few
09:59:05 businesses -- and I understand council members'
09:59:08 concerns -- but this is one of the few businesses
09:59:10 anywhere that there is a waiting line for something
09:59:14 you don't have, that exceeds the waiting line exceeds
09:59:19 the amount of space even when it's completely built
09:59:23 out, no matter if it's the 62 plus the 38 plus the
09:59:27 additional, plus the boat basin.
09:59:31 And what kind of money do they pay to get on that
09:59:34 waiting line?
09:59:36 $100.
09:59:37 They have been paying and trying to get off.
09:59:39 And it's incumbent.
09:59:42 I'm not opposed to debt if my product is going to meet
09:59:48 the debt service. The way I understood what you
09:59:49 said -- and correct me if I am wrong, please -- we
09:59:52 have a problem now that we have a shortfall on
09:59:56 revenues to meet the debt, and you have an operating
09:59:59 shortfall.
10:00:00 Am I correct?
10:00:02 And if it's built out, at least it solves the
10:00:06 shortfall on revenues.

10:00:08 You might still have a shortfall on operation.
10:00:11 Am I correct?
10:00:12 >>> Correct.
10:00:13 >> So at least we are going to solve 50% of something.
10:00:16 And I think that if the buildout is there, and then
10:00:19 the slips -- maybe it has, maybe it hasn't been taken
10:00:23 into consideration.
10:00:32 They have to get gas and everything else.
10:00:36 Maybe Davis Island.
10:00:36 I think the operation may be decreased and the revenue
10:00:40 losses that we have now by the increased purchasing at
10:00:43 that location.
10:00:43 Maybe I'm wrong but that's how I see it.
10:00:50 >>MARY MULHERN: I agree with Mr. Miranda.
10:00:52 I want to thank you, Karen, for an excellent
10:00:54 presentation.
10:00:54 I look forward to seeing these numbers.
10:00:57 What I hear from my constituents is they want boat
10:00:59 slips.
10:00:59 They don't care who they are paying but they want
10:01:02 access to the water.
10:01:03 And we have the opportunity to provide something that

10:01:05 makes our visitors happy and our residents happy and
10:01:10 makes our city look dynamic.
10:01:12 There's nothing like a bunch of boats going up and
10:01:15 down our waterway to add color and energy to our urban
10:01:18 landscape and I think that's something that's a
10:01:20 win-win-win.
10:01:22 So I look back from you receiving your information.
10:01:26 >>GWEN MILLER: Are you finished with the presentation?
10:01:29 >>> Karen Palus: I have one more slide.
10:01:31 The one question you had asked about what we currently
10:01:35 are getting fuel cells there and we are in the process
10:01:38 of moving forward to getting a start-up through a
10:01:42 vending packing an item that is more of an agreement
10:01:46 with those vendors to bring in.
10:01:48 So there's very little outlay on our part.
10:01:51 However, one of the things we will be looking to do is
10:01:55 upgrade our system so there is some capital investment
10:01:58 there so we can track that information appropriately.
10:02:01 We did survey all of our customer customers, to feel
10:02:05 exactly -- we are working on that and working with our
10:02:09 revenue and finance division started.
10:02:16 I do want to thank the administration, budget and

10:02:23 operations superintendent.
10:02:24 They have done a great job helping us put together
10:02:26 this report.
10:02:28 Thank you for your time this morning.
10:02:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Briefly, feedback.
10:02:31 People go out in the boat early in the morning and
10:02:33 they come back around sunset.
10:02:36 Our store hours are nine to five.
10:02:38 They need to be seven to seven.
10:02:41 >>> We have been discussing. That we are working as
10:02:43 far as looking at those hours.
10:02:44 We did expand from five days or seven days in our
10:02:48 operation.
10:02:48 So we are continuing to monitor that.
10:02:51 And we have got some folks a little later but that
10:02:55 fishing group we want to make sure we get those
10:02:57 involved.
10:02:59 >> Thanks for moving the boats in the boat basin.
10:03:01 People have been calling me about that for years Jo.
10:03:03 >> We appreciate everybody's patience.
10:03:05 We have been working through the process.
10:03:07 Thank you very much.

10:03:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Ms. Palus.
10:03:09 Item number 4.
10:03:11 Mr. LaMotte.
10:03:15 >>ROY LAMOTTE: Good morning.
10:03:18 Ray LaMotte, transportation manager.
10:03:20 I'm here this morning to discuss the following.
10:03:23 It's been around for awhile.
10:03:24 It's actually raised in 2002 by the Rattlesnake Point
10:03:30 neighborhood association.
10:03:32 I think they also contacted councilman Dingfelder,
10:03:34 councilwoman Linda Saul-Sena, and Mr. Miranda, you
10:03:39 might have been around at that time.
10:03:41 But this has been an issue that they have been aware
10:03:43 of safety concerns related to this intersection of
10:03:47 Bayshore and Interbay.
10:03:49 I direct your eyes to the Elmo for members that aren't
10:03:57 perhaps aware of the intersection.
10:03:59 We have Bayshore north and south and Interbay east and
10:04:02 west and to try to put it on the ground, give you a
10:04:06 closer view, you can see this is the direction of
10:04:08 Bayshore from the north, and you see there's no
10:04:11 control on that access.

10:04:13 And then we go to east-west direction, and you can see
10:04:16 we have stop signs.
10:04:29 At that time the traffic division did an evaluation
10:04:31 and found that the signal wasn't warranted but then
10:04:34 came September 11th, and MacDill Air Force
10:04:37 Base took security measures to close a number of their
10:04:40 gates, which increased the volume through this
10:04:42 intersection.
10:04:43 Considering the neighborhood's interest, the traffic
10:04:46 division went back out and reevaluated traffic signal
10:04:50 analysis.
10:04:51 We found as a result of our study it did need a
10:04:55 traffic signal here and it should be installed.
10:04:57 We add it to our list of traffic signal installations
10:05:00 and then the locations were matched with the funding
10:05:02 availability.
10:05:04 I am pleased to tell you this morning that we have
10:05:07 begun this traffic signal design on this particular
10:05:10 intersection.
10:05:11 It is part of this year's program.
10:05:14 It will be 100% designed.
10:05:19 We expect to get a notice to proceed as of July

10:05:22 1st, and we'll pick a contractor for award, and
10:05:26 then we will have that contractor order materials
10:05:30 which takes approximately four to four and a half
10:05:32 months and we'll have the signal in place as of
10:05:34 January '08.
10:05:36 I'll take any questions you may have about it.
10:05:38 That's our report this morning.
10:05:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:05:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Every time we ask you to do
10:05:44 something you come in and say it's going to done so we
10:05:47 are getting spoiled.
10:05:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you very much.
10:05:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 5.
10:05:58 >>THE CLERK: Item number 5 which is a solicitation of
10:06:02 right-of-way we have received the resolution.
10:06:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
10:06:06 >> Second.
10:06:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to approve the
10:06:08 resolution.
10:06:11 (Motion carried)
10:06:12 Number 6, Mr. Shelby.
10:06:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I am going to be very brief.

10:06:16 I'm passing out a handout.
10:06:26 The consensus is to have a facilitated one day event
10:06:29 regarding your retreat, 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. with a lunch
10:06:32 break.
10:06:33 Council location to be determined based on the date
10:06:36 available availability. The consensus is to have a
10:06:39 no-cost facility within the city.
10:06:44 In the order of preference most people prefer a
10:06:47 Tuesday followed by a Monday followed by a Friday.
10:06:51 Whether there is not a night meeting before the end of
10:06:53 the month is June 8th.
10:06:55 It would be my recommendation June 19th is only a
10:06:58 little more than five weeks away.
10:06:59 I have begun the process of looking into the
10:07:02 facilitator.
10:07:03 I have been in touch with president Genshaft's office
10:07:06 at USF and I have spoken to people within the city
10:07:08 about the process.
10:07:09 And I have a request, which is to use this time
10:07:13 between this morning's meeting and this afternoon's
10:07:15 meeting to confirm your availability, and take the
10:07:18 opportunity to set the date at tonight's meeting and

10:07:22 then I would begin the process based on what the
10:07:24 direction is to have everything fall into line.
10:07:27 That's my report.
10:07:35 >> So a night meeting we have --
10:07:38 >>> Based on what people have relayed if everyone is
10:07:42 available on June 19th for the day council would
10:07:44 set the motion to set the retreat for that day and I
10:07:46 would prepare the logistics to have that take place.
10:07:52 The location, again based on the consensus of the
10:07:54 council, I will bring back the availability, if you
10:07:58 wish, at the following meeting of what's available for
10:08:00 that particular date, and council can choose the
10:08:03 location.
10:08:03 In the meantime, I am beginning a process for
10:08:08 facilitator have been available.
10:08:10 I will be contacting purchasing just to make sure that
10:08:12 the process that we follow complies with rules and
10:08:15 regulations.
10:08:17 But I will bring council at each decision point more
10:08:20 information to go forward.
10:08:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So tonight we'll decide on the date?
10:08:31 >>> That's correct.

10:08:34 And if you wish to put something on next week's
10:08:37 agenda, to choose the location as a council, that can
10:08:41 be placed on next week's agenda and I'll have that
10:08:44 information, too.
10:08:46 >> You don't know now whether available June 19th
10:08:50 or June 12th?
10:08:53 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I don't know.
10:08:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Council members, do you want to say
10:08:59 what's convenient or do you want to wait till tonight?
10:09:02 >>MARY MULHERN: I have to look at my calendar.
10:09:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I suggest everybody goes back,
10:09:07 looks at their calendar, writes down what's available,
10:09:10 and hand it back to Mr. Shelby.
10:09:11 I always bring my calendar to council meetings because
10:09:14 I find it really helpful.
10:09:15 But I thank you for bringing this to us.
10:09:17 I want to move along as expeditiously as we can.
10:09:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Everybody bring it back tonight to Mr.
10:09:31 Shelby what date is available and he will know when we
10:09:35 can have a retreat.
10:09:40 >> I can't do June 19th.
10:09:42 I just want council to know.

10:09:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: This will be a short item.
10:09:51 >> So moved.
10:09:52 >> Second.
10:09:52 (Motion carried).
10:09:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 8.
10:09:54 An ordinance for first reading.
10:09:56 Ms. Saul-Sena, would you read that, please?
10:10:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move an ordinance approving a
10:10:05 special use permit S-1 on appeal from a decision of
10:10:08 the zoning administrator approving a congregate living
10:10:10 facility, group care facility, small 6 beds, for
10:10:14 disabled minors only for disabled minors only in an
10:10:17 RS-50 residential single family zoning district in the
10:10:20 city of Tampa, Florida, and more particularly
10:10:22 described in section 1, reducing the required
10:10:28 separation from another -- excuse me, I think I want
10:10:35 to allow some comment on this.
10:10:37 We had a lot of discussion about this at our last
10:10:39 council meeting, Madam Chairman.
10:10:42 >>GWEN MILLER: It passed and we had some changes made
10:10:46 to bring it back for first reading.
10:10:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay.

10:10:49 In the City of Tampa and more particularly described
10:10:51 in section 1 reducing the required separation from
10:10:54 another congregate living facility from 1200 feet to
10:10:59 805 feet providing an effective date.
10:11:01 >> We have a motion and second.
10:11:02 (Motion carried).
10:11:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just a reminder, council, this will
10:11:05 be coming back for second reading and adoption at a
10:11:08 public hearing in two weeks at 9:30.
10:11:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: At our last council meeting where
10:11:16 we were discussing the fact that we usually have
10:11:19 public hearings, we have public participation in the
10:11:22 second public hearing, the second reading.
10:11:25 I believe I had asked Mr. Shelby to look into that
10:11:28 because it makes more sense to have the public engaged
10:11:32 at the first reading because then if we decide to turn
10:11:36 it down then there's no reason for a second hearing.
10:11:39 I think it would be more productive for us to hear
10:11:41 from folks up front at the first reading, and what did
10:11:45 you find in your research?
10:11:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, you had directed me to look
10:11:48 into it and bring back some sort of recommendations

10:11:50 when you discuss it on the 31st when you discuss
10:11:54 the changes to chapter 27.
10:11:56 I will have an opportunity then.
10:11:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: All right.
10:11:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
10:12:00 would like to request a legislative matter? Anyone in
10:12:02 the public that would like to request consideration
10:12:06 for a legislative matter? We go to our comments from
10:12:08 the public.
10:12:09 Anyone in the public wants to speak to any item on the
10:12:11 agenda not set for public hearing?
10:12:12 You may come speak now.
10:12:28 >>MOSES KNOTT, JR.: I reside at 2902 East Ellicott
10:12:32 street three nights a week, and right now back in my
10:12:38 house pretty regular and got I thank God for his grace
10:12:42 and his mercy.
10:12:48 You know, everywhere I go, a lot of people -- this
10:12:55 grace is different and this mercy is different.
10:12:58 The mercy is very important.
10:12:59 Now why?
10:13:02 You were born with it.
10:13:04 A lot of people say I'm different, because I was born

10:13:07 with it, a heart full of mercy.
10:13:15 When you believe, you give it.
10:13:21 And I ran a survey, about 100 -- 1 out of 100 believe
10:13:27 in it and 1 out of a thousand born with mercy.
10:13:31 Everybody believe in mercy but don't believe in giving
10:13:34 it.
10:13:35 Thank you very much.
10:13:40 I know all your business.
10:13:42 Mr. Charlie Miranda, I was so glad to get you back up
10:13:45 here.
10:13:48 You were about five or six blocks from my house and I
10:13:52 wish to God I had a vote to get you back but I
10:13:57 appreciate you.
10:13:57 And I don't know much about you, Mr. Joe, but you got
10:14:04 a lot of mercy in your heart because you talk about
10:14:07 that boat thing, saying going to cut the police, going
10:14:10 to spend this here but yet spend all the money on
10:14:13 that.
10:14:13 I hollered amen back there.
10:14:15 But something happened in my part of town, I would
10:14:20 holler amen.
10:14:21 But I like that.

10:14:23 Mr. Charlie Miranda, you got a lot of mercy in your
10:14:26 heart.
10:14:29 The reason I say that, most of you all politicians,
10:14:35 you all give your heart and soul to the city, and
10:14:39 civic association, everybody.
10:14:40 I want the city to look like this, I want the city to
10:14:43 get like this.
10:14:44 But you don't care nothing about the peoples.
10:14:48 I mean, that amaze me.
10:14:50 You know, I used to be a member of the human rights,
10:14:53 property rights, civic association.
10:14:55 But I got off of that.
10:14:56 Because you all don't care nothing about the peoples.
10:15:00 I love God's peoples.
10:15:02 I really do.
10:15:03 And I come back this morning because I know you all
10:15:08 got something about the people in West Tampa, you
10:15:10 know.
10:15:11 I don't live in that part of town but a lot of poor
10:15:14 people over there -- and I represent poor peoples.
10:15:16 But I be back this morning to talk about this article
10:15:19 35, I think it is,.

10:15:23 But I want to say, though, in this boat thing -- oh,
10:15:28 yeah, I want to say, on that boat thing they got 85 on
10:15:36 the waiting list.
10:15:43 But more politicians saying, I want to do this and I
10:15:47 want to do that but don't have no money, and don't see
10:15:50 how they are going to get no money.
10:15:52 But I like that part, but I agree, if you say they got
10:15:58 85 boats going to come in there waiting, I agree with
10:16:02 that.
10:16:02 Thank you.
10:16:02 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else like to speak?
10:16:05 We are going to go to our items for first reading.
10:16:07 Mr. Miranda, would you read item number 9, please.
10:16:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Number 9.
10:16:12 Madam Chair, move an ordinance of the city of Tampa,
10:16:15 Florida amending ordinance number 2007-34 correcting a
10:16:19 scrivener's error in the title and text of that
10:16:22 ordinance which authorized the installation and
10:16:24 maintenance of encroachment canopy by Antonakos
10:16:33 Floridan LLC over a portion of the public right-of-way
10:16:38 known as north Florida in the description of the
10:16:40 authorized encroachments to include maintenance of

10:16:42 authorized existing encroachments consisting of
10:16:45 existing architectural features and existing historic
10:16:50 sign, providing an effective date.
10:16:52 >> Second.
10:16:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
10:16:54 Question on the motion.
10:16:55 Mr. Dingfelder.
10:16:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Quick comment.
10:16:57 This is the Floridan hotel.
10:16:59 I had the opportunity a couple months ago to take a
10:17:01 tour over there.
10:17:02 And it's just wonderful what they are doing inside
10:17:04 there.
10:17:08 I don't know if you had a chance to see it. The folks
10:17:10 who are working on it including Mr. Antonakos and his
10:17:18 partners are so excited and they told me to
10:17:20 specifically invite City Council to come over and take
10:17:23 a tour, because they are really excited about what
10:17:25 they are doing, and they are really hopeful about what
10:17:27 the future of the Floridan hotel will be.
10:17:30 So please take advantage of that.
10:17:31 I can give you the information as to who to call.

10:17:34 Anyway, I second the motion.
10:17:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
10:17:37 (Motion carried).
10:17:38 Item number 10 is the substitute.
10:17:43 Mr. Dingfelder.
10:17:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move the following ordinance for
10:17:46 first reading, an ordinance amending ordinance number
10:17:49 2007-93 passed and ordained by the City Council of the
10:17:52 City of Tampa on April 26, 2007, correcting a
10:17:55 scrivener's error by amending the incorrect street
10:17:58 address of 2901 west Alline Avenue for the correct
10:18:02 street address of 2921 west Alline Avenue, providing
10:18:06 for severability, providing an effective date.
10:18:09 >> Second.
10:18:09 (Motion carried).
10:18:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Committee reports.
10:18:18 Public safety, Mr. Thomas Scott.
10:18:21 >> Move 11 through 13.
10:18:23 >> Second.
10:18:23 (Motion carried).
10:18:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Parks, recreation, Linda Saul-Sena.
10:18:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move 14 and 15.

10:18:31 >> Second.
10:18:31 (Motion carried).
10:18:33 >> Public works, Mr. Charlie Miranda.
10:18:37 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move item number 16.
10:18:40 >> Second.
10:18:40 (Motion carried).
10:18:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Finance Committee, Mr. John Dingfelder.
10:18:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll move items 17 through 19.
10:18:48 >> Second.
10:18:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Is this where I think it's at, do
10:18:57 they have enough water there?
10:18:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Which number?
10:19:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Both 18 and 19.
10:19:01 >> What is the question?
10:19:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Is that location where the big
10:19:04 facility is at?
10:19:05 I don't know if that would be the case.
10:19:07 I just want to make sure there's ample water.
10:19:09 We don't want to go --
10:19:13 >> I think that was the stadium.
10:19:16 >> It sounds like it's indoors.
10:19:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No problem.

10:19:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
10:19:20 (Motion carried).
10:19:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Building and zoning, Mr. Joseph
10:19:23 Caetano.
10:19:24 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Move items 20 to 23.
10:19:29 >> Second.
10:19:29 (Motion carried).
10:19:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Transportation committee, Ms. Mary
10:19:34 Mulhern.
10:19:35 >>MARY MULHERN: I move motions number 24 through 26.
10:19:41 >> So moved.
10:19:41 >> Second.
10:19:42 (Motion carried).
10:19:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to set the public hearings 27
10:19:53 and 28.
10:19:55 >>CHAIRMAN: Motion and second.
10:19:56 (Motion carried).
10:19:57 Now we go to our ordinances for second reading.
10:20:04 Anyone that's going to speak on 29 through 36, would
10:20:12 you please stand and raise your right hand?
10:20:14 Anyone that's going to speak on those items please
10:20:16 stand and raise your right hand.

10:20:19 (Oath administered by Clerk).
10:20:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Ski that all written communications
10:20:26 relative to today's hearings which have been available
10:20:28 for public inspection in council's office be received
10:20:30 and filed.
10:20:33 >> So moved.
10:20:34 >> Second.
10:20:34 (Motion carried).
10:20:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If any member of council received any
10:20:41 verbal communication was any petitioner or his or her
10:20:45 representative please disclose prior to action the sum
10:20:47 and substance of the verbal communication with whom it
10:20:49 occurred.
10:20:50 And prior to vote.
10:20:53 And if you do testify, please reaffirm for the record
10:20:56 that you have been sworn when you state your name, and
10:20:59 to move this along I'll put this little sign here to
10:21:01 remind you.
10:21:02 Thank you very much.
10:21:02 >>GWEN MILLER: Need to open -- Mr. Dingfelder?
10:21:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have a disclosure with regard to
10:21:10 item number 35 I think this is Mr. Turanchik's item

10:21:23 number 35. Anyway, aid discussion shortly after our
10:21:26 first hearing, asking me how our vote went and what
10:21:29 happened and this and that.
10:21:30 I forgot we were coming back for second reading but I
10:21:33 told him I thought it was a good project and that I
10:21:35 voted for it and that was about the extent of it.
10:21:38 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to open number 29 through 36.
10:21:42 >> So moved.
10:21:43 >> Second.
10:21:43 (Motion carried).
10:21:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Number 29.
10:21:49 Do you want to speak?
10:21:51 >>> Actually, Phil Shultz, Land Development
10:21:54 Coordination, I have been sworn, to speak on item
10:21:57 number 30 but you probably have to open both items
10:22:00 because of vacating on 30 as well.
10:22:02 >>GWEN MILLER: The items are already open so you may
10:22:04 go ahead and speak.
10:22:05 >> This is regarding item 30, rezoning case Z 07-12
10:22:12 and vacating C 06-26, Palmetto Beach community
10:22:18 association. This is a continuance of the second
10:22:20 reading.

10:22:21 The development review committee has reviewed the
10:22:24 changes that we are requesting from council and they
10:22:27 have only one comment from Land Development
10:22:30 Coordination, and landscaping.
10:22:34 At the direction of City Council, the petitioner has
10:22:36 increased the open space between the units fronting on
10:22:39 south mer Buddha Boulevard and south end of the
10:22:41 property by eliminating one townhouse development, in
10:22:44 addition the petitioner has added note number 40 to
10:22:47 the site plan addressing the gate issue as follows:
10:22:50 The condominium association shall meet with the City
10:22:52 of Tampa's zoning staff to address the issue of gates
10:22:56 on elmwood Avenue within five years from the date of
10:22:59 construction.
10:23:00 A crime report from the City of Tampa police
10:23:02 department shall be provided to demonstrate the status
10:23:04 of crime activity as it relates to the Palmetto Beach
10:23:07 community during the period subsequent to the
10:23:09 construction of the project.
10:23:10 If you have any other questions.
10:23:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:23:14 Right now, as part of the projected construction of

10:23:18 the connection between I-4 and the -- anyway, there's
10:23:25 going to be road construction of what's called the
10:23:27 connector, the I-4 connector, within a portion of
10:23:30 Palmetto Beach.
10:23:31 And as part of that, there is a review being done of
10:23:35 Palmetto Beach as a historic district.
10:23:39 Or an overlay district, being done to assess the
10:23:41 historic character of the area.
10:23:43 So in five years, that should certainly be completed.
10:23:47 My objection to this particular petition is based on
10:23:50 the fact that Palmetto Beach is a historic area with a
10:23:53 street grid and what's being proposed is -- does not
10:23:57 support that historic grid.
10:24:00 So when these folks come back in five years and look
10:24:03 at the idea of opening the gates literally, it's my
10:24:07 strong suggestion that as part of their consideration
10:24:12 they also look at the historical documentation an
10:24:17 whatever sort of overlay has been created in the
10:24:19 interim.
10:24:20 Now, I don't want to hold these people up.
10:24:22 Or actually -- I don't want to hold them up today in
10:24:26 terms of having to write that into the plan.

10:24:28 I would be satisfied if somebody could commit that
10:24:32 when they look at this in five years they consider the
10:24:37 historical research and protection that's been created
10:24:41 during that interim.
10:24:43 So perhaps when their petitioner comes up to speak
10:24:46 they can address that.
10:24:46 Or if there are any neighborhood residents that they
10:24:49 would remember, the memory on that account.
10:24:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
10:24:58 wants to speak on item 29?
10:24:59 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: well where Mr. Dingfelder wanted
10:25:07 to you take that building out there was one building I
10:25:10 think 25 feet wide, and the little alleyway next to it
10:25:13 was about 12 feet.
10:25:15 So if you took 25 feet away and you split it between
10:25:18 two alleys, how do we come up with a 16.67
10:25:24 measurement?
10:25:30 >>> Madam Chair, if I may.
10:25:32 They actually widened the space. The direction was to
10:25:34 widen the space between the three complexes on that
10:25:37 section, so they increased the width if, if you look
10:25:40 at the plan at the southern end of that row of

10:25:45 complexes and between each of the buildings so there
10:25:48 was an equal expansion between all of those.
10:25:50 And it was a -- they split the 25 feet equally over
10:25:54 the two different expansions, so it would look more
10:25:57 balanced from an architectural perspective.
10:26:01 >> You are talking about the one that's now 11.8, and
10:26:04 the 16.67, and there's one here with no measurement on
10:26:07 it.
10:26:12 >>> Elmo, please.
10:26:15 I have highlighted it here.
10:26:24 They have widened the northern section, the more
10:26:29 central section, and then down right at elmwood they
10:26:34 expanded that there to provide more pedestrian space
10:26:38 on all three of those locations.
10:26:42 And then obviously it has a -- that reduced their
10:26:45 parking requirements as well.
10:26:48 And then note 40 does address the gate issue.
10:26:52 I hope I answered your question.
10:26:54 >> Would anyone else like to speak on item 29?
10:27:04 >>> Phyllis Fleming Pearson, 1200 West Platt
10:27:08 representing applicant.
10:27:09 I want to affirm on the record that the applicants

10:27:11 will, in five years, look at the historic overlay if
10:27:16 one is created and the historic grid pattern of the
10:27:19 area in their discussions with the city and the
10:27:23 removal of the gate, which we all anticipate will
10:27:25 happen.
10:27:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:27:27 >>MARTIN SHELBY: For the record, have you been sworn?
10:27:32 >>> Yes, sir, I have been sworn.
10:27:33 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.
10:27:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone tolls speak?
10:27:37 Need to close the public hearing.
10:27:38 >> So moved.
10:27:39 >> Second.
10:27:39 (Motion carried).
10:27:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Read number 29, please.
10:27:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I move an ordinance vacating, closing,
10:27:52 discontinue -- move the following ordinance upon
10:27:56 second reading, an ordinance vacating, closing,
10:27:58 discontinuing and abandoning certain rights-of-way
10:28:01 those alleyways lying south of Saxon street, north of
10:28:06 maple Avenue east of 22nd street and west of
10:28:09 Bermuda Avenue in map of East Tampa subdivision, a

10:28:13 subdivision in the City of Tampa, Hillsborough County
10:28:15 Florida the same being more fully described in section
10:28:18 2 hereof providing an effective date.
10:28:22 >> Need a second.
10:28:23 Nobody seconds it?
10:28:28 >> Did we get a second?
10:28:29 Second.
10:28:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Madam Chairman.
10:28:33 I will ask our council members to take a look at the
10:28:35 map in front of you.
10:28:36 If you look at this -- oh, goodness, I don't think
10:28:39 they got passed around.
10:28:40 Sorry about that.
10:28:41 As you all had the opportunity to look at this plat
10:28:45 map of Palmetto Beach, one thing is strikingly clear.
10:28:49 Palmetto Beach is a grid.
10:28:51 You can look at it, and you see that all up and down
10:28:54 and back and forth, it's a grid, which we all know is
10:28:57 the best way for neighborhoods to be.
10:29:01 What's proposed today is for us to relinquish the
10:29:05 streets and alleys which create this create.
10:29:07 I think that in respect to the historic pattern there,

10:29:11 which we have now come to value, as urban planners, if
10:29:15 they are really honest know that the street grid is
10:29:17 what everybody now is reaspiring to under new
10:29:21 urbanism, I think giving up this grid is not a smart
10:29:24 move, and I will not support this.
10:29:25 And I real encourage the architecture of this program
10:29:29 is good, the idea is good.
10:29:31 Giving up the grid, not a good idea.
10:29:33 Could you take the existing building, move them around
10:29:36 a little bit, respect the grid, and still have a
10:29:39 terrific development.
10:29:40 So I really encourage you all to not vote for this.
10:29:43 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:29:45 Vote and record.
10:29:47 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried, Mulhern and Saul-Sena
10:29:57 voting no.
10:29:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
10:29:59 wants to speak on item number 30?
10:30:02 Need to close.
10:30:04 >> Move to close.
10:30:05 >> Second.
10:30:05 (Motion carried).

10:30:07 THE CLERK: I believe on item 30 we have a substitute
10:30:10 ordinance.
10:30:11 >>GWEN MILLER: We don't have it.
10:30:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: A what?
10:30:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Substitute ordinance.
10:30:16 Substitute on number 30.
10:30:18 Item 30.
10:30:23 >> The new site plan.
10:30:39 >> I received a substitute with the site plan dated
10:30:42 April 27.
10:30:45 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Move to adopt ordinance number --
10:30:57 >>GWEN MILLER: We have it.
10:30:58 We have it.
10:31:02 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Z-07-an --
10:31:09 >>CHAIRMAN: Wrong one.
10:31:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Start again.
10:31:16 >> This is for first reading?
10:31:18 >> This says second.
10:31:20 >> This would be first reading because you have a site
10:31:24 plan.
10:31:25 >>JULIA COLE: I'm a little confused about the posture.
10:31:30 If there was a change to the site plan, we have to

10:31:32 take this back to first reading.
10:31:35 And so we need to switch this to first reading.
10:31:38 And then we need to have second reading again in two
10:31:40 weeks under your rules.
10:31:43 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Move to adopt an ordinance for
10:31:45 first reading, in the general vicinity of 22nd
10:31:50 Avenue Saxon Avenue, Bermuda Avenue and maple Avenue
10:31:54 in the city of Tampa, Florida, and more particularly
10:31:57 described in section 30 from zoning district
10:32:01 classifications RS-50 residential single family, CN,
10:32:05 commercial neighborhood, CG commercial general, and
10:32:09 RM-16 residential multifamily, to PD, planned
10:32:13 development, mixed use, retail, residential, providing
10:32:17 an effective date.
10:32:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
10:32:20 All in favor of the motion?
10:32:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to thank Mr. Dingfelder for
10:32:24 making some slight improvements on the proposed site
10:32:27 plan.
10:32:28 I still don't think it's the responsible thing for us
10:32:30 to approve something that's a site plan and project
10:32:34 that blatantly ignores the historic development

10:32:37 pattern in Palmetto Beach.
10:32:38 I predict this is going to be one of those things that
10:32:41 we look back in five yourself and say, what were they
10:32:43 thinking?
10:32:43 I really encourage you all to send this back to the
10:32:46 developer with the idea of reconfiguring it to better
10:32:50 reflect the historic development pattern in Palmetto
10:32:52 Beach.
10:32:53 I encourage you to vote against this.
10:32:55 It's on first reading.
10:32:56 You have the opportunity to send it back and make it
10:32:58 better still.
10:32:59 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
10:33:00 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to add to that, that I
10:33:09 don't see this and our voting on this as compatible
10:33:12 with the neighborhood.
10:33:13 It's not just about the historic character of the
10:33:17 neighborhood.
10:33:17 It's about what is there now.
10:33:19 And how we are going to put this development on the
10:33:26 water there, in a neighborhood that is single-family
10:33:30 homes and businesses, and I just agree with Linda that

10:33:35 this is not compatible with the neighborhood.
10:33:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Caetano?
10:33:39 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Talking about compatibility.
10:33:41 I guess at one time this was a pretty safe
10:33:43 neighborhood.
10:33:44 And it has become unsafe.
10:33:45 This is why they want a gated community.
10:33:48 And people, the sales will drop if they don't gate
10:33:52 this community.
10:33:53 And if we are trying to create economic development,
10:33:55 we are not doing it by voting no for this project.
10:34:00 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:34:05 >>THE CLERK: Saul-Sena and Mulhern voting no.
10:34:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I apologize to council
10:34:12 because I didn't realize the appropriate thing was
10:34:17 read it as first reading.
10:34:18 >>GWEN MILLER: We did.
10:34:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Number 30.
10:34:21 But what happened was the second one was right for
10:34:23 second read which is a vacate.
10:34:25 But normally the two Do travel together.
10:34:27 And in this case what you have done is you have

10:34:29 vacated the land but continued obviously, or you still
10:34:32 have to wait for the rezoning in two weeks time.
10:34:37 As long as council is aware of that, then that's fine.
10:34:39 Thank you.
10:34:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
10:34:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I appreciate Mr. Shelby's words of
10:34:45 caution because normally you don't want to do that but
10:34:47 in this case we hashed it over, I feel comfortable
10:34:50 with it.
10:34:50 >>GWEN MILLER: I do, too.
10:34:51 Is there anyone in the public that wants to speak on
10:34:53 item 31?
10:34:55 >> Move to close.
10:34:56 >> Second.
10:34:56 (Motion carried).
10:34:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Mulhern, would you read that,
10:35:02 please?
10:35:02 >>MARY MULHERN: Move to adopt the following ordinance
10:35:04 upon second reading.
10:35:06 An ordinance being presented for second reading, an
10:35:09 ordinance authorizing the installation and maintenance
10:35:11 of an encroachment of a decorative feature retractible

10:35:16 fabric awning as part of a renovation to a historic
10:35:19 building over a portion of the public right-of-way
10:35:21 known as west Main Street located in the right-of-way
10:35:23 in front of property with a street address of 2106 and
10:35:26 2108 west Main Street in the City of Tampa,
10:35:29 Hillsborough County as more particularly described
10:35:31 herein subject to certain terms, covenants, conditions
10:35:35 and agreements as more particularly described herein
10:35:38 providing an effective date.
10:35:40 >> Second.
10:35:41 >> Motion and second.
10:35:42 Question on the motion.
10:35:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Julia Cole, I have a question.
10:35:46 We are making people go through a lot of hassle to put
10:35:49 up a decorative awning which we encourage in historic
10:35:54 areas and West Tampa and could council as part of our
10:35:56 27 changes consider getting rid of this requirement?
10:36:00 Because we want to encourage this.
10:36:02 It just takes time, money.
10:36:03 It's a hassle for the property owner.
10:36:06 Can't we say if you want to do this in a historic area
10:36:09 then it's a staff review and it's a done deal?

10:36:13 >>> That certainly is part of chapter 27, our
10:36:15 recommendation would be after you take a vote on this
10:36:17 particular item make a motion that as part of the July
10:36:21 cycle we take that back.
10:36:23 >> Great.
10:36:24 >> Motion and second.
10:36:24 Majority vote and record.
10:36:33 >>THE CLERK: motion carries unanimously.
10:36:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to ask the legal
10:36:38 department to making life easier for everyone by
10:36:40 having requests for putting a decorative awning in a
10:36:46 historic area as something that goes to staff review,
10:36:51 and do I need to add anything else?
10:36:55 >>JULIA COLE: What I would request from you is a
10:36:58 motion that we and Land Development Coordination bring
10:37:01 back as part of the July cycle an ordinance to deal
10:37:04 with administrative review of awnings.
10:37:09 Clerk, is that clear?
10:37:11 >> That's my motion.
10:37:12 (Motion carried).
10:37:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: quick comment on the motion.
10:37:17 I could have sworn that Morris Massey looked at that

10:37:19 for us three years ago.
10:37:23 >>CHAIRMAN: Is there anyone in the public that wants
10:37:25 to speak on item 32?
10:37:31 >>> My name is Agnes Stanchill, and I'm not quite sure
10:37:38 what you mean by decorative awnings.
10:37:41 >>GWEN MILLER: You can't speak on that right now.
10:37:43 You can speak on that at the end of the meeting.
10:37:45 >>> Well, it says awnings.
10:37:48 >> It's on the not on the agenda.
10:37:50 She just made a motion.
10:37:51 You can speak to that at the end.
10:37:53 Anyone that wants to speak on item 32?
10:37:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to open.
10:37:57 >> Second.
10:37:57 (Motion carried).
10:37:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA
10:38:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move the following ordinance upon
10:38:05 second reading, an ordinance rezoning property in the
10:38:07 general vicinity of 3203 West Cypress street in the
10:38:10 city of Tampa, Florida and more particularly described
10:38:12 in section 1 from zoning district classifications
10:38:14 RS-50 residential single-family to PD, planned

10:38:17 development, professional office, providing an
10:38:19 effective date.
10:38:23 >> Second.
10:38:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
10:38:24 Vote and record.
10:38:29 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
10:38:33 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
10:38:35 wants to speak on item 33?
10:38:40 Number 33?
10:38:42 >> Move to close.
10:38:43 >> Second.
10:38:43 (Motion carried).
10:38:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder, would you read that,
10:38:46 please?
10:38:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move an ordinance for second
10:38:50 reading, an ordinance rezoning property in the general
10:38:52 vicinity of 3308 and 3310 North Tampa Street from
10:38:58 zoning district classification PD planned development
10:39:01 CN commercial neighborhood business and professional
10:39:04 office, providing an effective date.
10:39:06 >> Motion and second.
10:39:06 Vote and record.

10:39:12 >>THE CLERK: Need one more vote.
10:39:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Didn't push hard enough.
10:39:21 >> Motion carried with Miranda being absent.
10:39:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public to speak
10:39:25 on item 34?
10:39:26 >> Move to close.
10:39:27 >> Second.
10:39:27 (Motion carried).
10:39:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Move to adopt the following ordinance
10:39:33 upon second reading, an ordinance rezoning property in
10:39:35 the general vicinity of 4820 north Gomez Avenue in the
10:39:38 city of Tampa, Florida and more particularly described
10:39:41 in section 1 from zoning district classifications PD
10:39:45 and RS-50 residential single family to PD planned
10:39:49 development, senior living facility, providing an
10:39:51 effective date.
10:39:52 >> Second.
10:39:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
10:39:54 Vote and record.
10:39:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion carried with Miranda being
10:40:04 absent.
10:40:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that

10:40:06 wants to speak on item 35?
10:40:08 >> Move to close.
10:40:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Somebody coming up.
10:40:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Sorry.
10:40:17 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Again if when you state your name,
10:40:19 please reaffirm that you have been sworn.
10:40:21 Thank you.
10:40:22 >>> Good morning.
10:40:23 My name is Dwight bolden and I have been sworn.
10:40:29 I want to speak on the PD change of West Tampa.
10:40:40 A PD is a planned development.
10:40:45 And a couple of years ago the City Council approved
10:40:58 which dealt with different codes and structure design.
10:41:06 That piece of legislation was brought before the City
10:41:08 Council by the overlay committee, West Tampa overlay
10:41:14 committee, and it was approved by City Council, the
10:41:21 foundation for the planned development for the West
10:41:23 Tampa area, overlay district was established and the
10:41:33 overlay committee was to be the overseer of that.
10:41:36 Now, the petitioner is asking for a new PD.
10:41:52 Under the law for a PD you must first go before the
10:41:54 overseer of the -- of that -- of the overlay district,

10:41:59 and see if they can come up with an agreement, and the
10:42:04 reason for that is that they had signed contract
10:42:10 agreement between the petitioner and the West Tampa
10:42:12 overlay district representatives, the West Tampa CDC.
10:42:20 And by law, you cannot deviate from that PD without
10:42:25 first confirm with the overseer who you have that
10:42:32 agreement with, which was again the overlay committee.
10:42:38 They did not agree with him to make the change.
10:42:41 And he knew that he could not make a change in his
10:42:45 design of homes that he was building.
10:42:52 Now the only way he could make a change was come
10:42:54 before you, the City Council, and get a new PD, in the
10:43:02 place of the PD that was already in place.
10:43:04 That PD design was different from the one that he
10:43:07 wanted to.
10:43:08 But he signed the agreement knowing that he would have
10:43:15 to build the houses he building according the Todd
10:43:18 Pressman that PD.
10:43:19 He built 25 homes, or building 25 homes, on a lot that
10:43:30 he purchased from the city in this area.
10:43:34 And those 25 homes that he built or building on are
10:43:39 strictly by that PD.

10:43:43 He said he made money, but a small amount on the homes
10:43:46 that he built under that PD.
10:43:52 The new homes that he want to build, the homes that he
10:43:56 want to build are cheaper to build and would make him
10:44:05 more money.
10:44:05 (Bell sounds).
10:44:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Your time is up.
10:44:07 You need to wrap it up.
10:44:15 >>> He has a signed agreement.
10:44:17 He has signed an agreement with the overlay committee.
10:44:21 And he should have to stick to that agreement.
10:44:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay, your time is up, sir.
10:44:26 That's it.
10:44:26 Thank you.
10:44:27 Next speaker.
10:44:35 >>> Good morning, City Council.
10:44:39 It was good to see you last night at the committee.
10:44:44 I have been confirmed and my name is Ruth McNair, 1121
10:44:49 west Nassau street.
10:44:50 I have been there 49 years.
10:44:53 Been in the West Tampa area ever since 1948, moved
10:44:59 from 4008 South Orleans to Hyde Park.

10:45:03 So we have been in West Tampa for a long period of
10:45:04 time.
10:45:05 I'm here representing the neighborhood crime watch
10:45:11 association and also a member of the West Tampa
10:45:14 overlay committee.
10:45:16 And I'm also going to be speaking for West Tampa
10:45:21 overlay -- old West Tampa this year to go to a class
10:45:28 this morning so she give me a letter while she was
10:45:31 sitting in the meeting last night, she wrote out some
10:45:34 three-page letter if he can get it in the time.
10:45:49 The houses that he build, he sold, we was in
10:45:51 agreement, and we was part of it.
10:45:54 In fact I was at the ribbon cutting.
10:45:58 But we do not agree with this particular style.
10:46:00 It seems that it belongs in the commercial district,
10:46:03 not a residential.
10:46:06 So I was not able to be here two weeks ago because we
10:46:10 had a neighborhood meeting.
10:46:12 And I'm really against the style of this particular
10:46:16 house.
10:46:17 We like -- for this design, in the West Tampa
10:46:24 neighborhood.

10:46:25 So I am going to try to go see if I can get it in in
10:46:29 time.
10:46:31 She wrote this while she was at the T.H.A.N. meeting
10:46:34 last night.
10:46:35 And that was Janice Williams.
10:46:39 She said: We do not support the design as presented
10:46:43 because it would not fit in the pattern as indicated
10:46:49 in the overlay guideline.
10:46:59 At the time any mention of using the design for
10:47:02 commercial building as translated.
10:47:04 There is -- never said he wanted to do this design at
10:47:11 that time.
10:47:13 While that may be a design in South Tampa, it still
10:47:22 does not fit the pattern in the historic in old West
10:47:26 Tampa.
10:47:29 The neighborhood residents prefer to have some sort of
10:47:34 front porch and pitched roof that is common to old
10:47:37 West Tampa.
10:47:37 Old West Tampa wants to increase the tax base but not
10:47:41 at the expense of alternating the design.
10:47:45 Please be aware the design will be placed in between
10:47:51 other homes.

10:47:53 In addition, plans to split a 50-foot lot to build two
10:47:58 houses instead of building the most popular design,
10:48:02 bungalow.
10:48:06 (Bell sounds).
10:48:08 My time is up.
10:48:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Finish your statement.
10:48:11 >>> So I can leave it.
10:48:19 Last nature she wrote out three pages for me to read.
10:48:22 So because she couldn't be here, she's gone to a
10:48:24 class.
10:48:25 >>GWEN MILLER: All right.
10:48:25 Put it in the record.
10:48:28 Thank you.
10:48:30 Next speaker.
10:48:36 >>> Ruth McCray. I lived in West Tampa for 35 years.
10:48:39 I work in the community.
10:48:40 In all phases.
10:48:45 I am still a member of the association, the CDC, work
10:48:51 with the juvenile justice department.
10:48:55 And I notice on the TV, video, that it was stated that
10:49:06 there were houses similar to what she wants in West
10:49:13 Tampa.

10:49:13 I have driven all over that area and all the ones on
10:49:21 Main Street in the 2300 block.
10:49:23 The third house was at Macfarlane Park.
10:49:29 And I know -- the larger building that is similar to
10:49:37 that has been torn down.
10:49:40 Now, east of that, these houses are there.
10:49:51 East of us, that's across from the building.
10:49:54 Now you can find five houses like that, in the 900
10:50:01 block of corral street there are five Mediterranean
10:50:06 homes like that.
10:50:07 But in our area, I have yet to see any homes like
10:50:09 that.
10:50:10 Now, we work closer with him with phase one with CDC,
10:50:15 we work closely with him, he just built phase 2,
10:50:20 because CDC built.
10:50:22 And we work closely with him.
10:50:24 And we work down through on the planning of the lot.
10:50:40 He came to my house and we talked about this over and
10:50:42 over again.
10:50:43 So we were kind of left out, excluded from this.
10:50:46 And we do have our overlay district like Seminole
10:50:49 Heights has and Tampa Heights and Hyde Park.

10:50:52 And I think the only thing that we are not against the
10:50:57 homes being built.
10:50:59 We would have liked to be a part of this discussion,
10:51:03 like we were before, because we made some changes on
10:51:06 there with CDC, like a bathroom.
10:51:09 They had all the bathrooms upstairs.
10:51:12 We said we need a bathroom downstairs.
10:51:14 That was a change.
10:51:15 The same person that designed the first phase of the
10:51:18 CDC are the same designers that designed this now.
10:51:25 And I don't see no reason that we shouldn't get
10:51:28 together, like we should have done, and decide this.
10:51:32 Because I think that most of it, if you change the
10:51:35 roof, and put a pitched roof, that he can still make
10:51:40 up that it will not be too much trouble.
10:51:46 And I hope you take that into consideration because we
10:51:48 have been working hard on this and worked hard on the
10:51:51 overlay.
10:51:53 We approved it and then to come up, you know, and say,
10:51:57 somebody just walk in and say this is what I want.
10:51:59 But, you know, I'm kind of surprised that he works so
10:52:05 well with us in the second phase that he didn't come

10:52:07 to us on this.
10:52:07 Thank you.
10:52:08 (Bell sounds).
10:52:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:52:09 Next.
10:52:15 >> my name is Moses Knott, Jr., 2902est Ellicott
10:52:23 street, and I don't live in this part of town like I
10:52:28 told you before but I represent poor peoples and I'm
10:52:32 for property rights 100%.
10:52:34 But this right here, you know, I got a problem with
10:52:36 anybody coming in a poor neighborhood, you know, or
10:52:43 claiming to come help us poor peoples but to come and
10:52:46 give us money, unless all they want is money.
10:52:49 But when I first got starting off, and this land got
10:52:59 sold here for $2,000 a lot.
10:53:01 I think some kind of way to get more money down the
10:53:04 line.
10:53:05 Then Ms. Saul-Sena, now there was one lot this lady
10:53:09 had a big pecan tree.
10:53:12 This lady come in screaming bloody murder that she
10:53:16 wanted this lot but this all went to one development.
10:53:19 Ms. Saul-Sena, I love you.

10:53:21 I don't trust you sometimes but I love you.
10:53:23 But what I'm saying, I don't know if she ever got that
10:53:30 lot or not but they got all these lots for little
10:53:33 money.
10:53:34 And turn around and sell the house for $200,000 and a
10:53:40 middle class person moving in it.
10:53:42 And I guarantee you, they are moving out of a middle
10:53:47 class but they are going to be poor.
10:53:49 And I look at these people now.
10:53:51 I see it on TV late at night.
10:53:55 And I see these houses.
10:53:57 And you all voted for this thing.
10:54:06 I mean, you tell them about they have to have a small
10:54:09 porch and everything.
10:54:12 Most of them got like 8-foot setback right on the
10:54:16 street.
10:54:18 I mean, ain't no parking over there.
10:54:21 I eat over there, you know.
10:54:26 I had to park two blocks and walk back there.
10:54:29 There is no parking in West Tampa.
10:54:30 And you all have turned down thousands of people that
10:54:33 come to this podium and say, how can you build a house

10:54:36 when you ain't got no parking?
10:54:38 You cannot park on the street?
10:54:40 In West Tampa everything on the street.
10:54:42 I mean over there everything is on the street.
10:54:46 But, you know, this thing like I said, come on TV and
10:54:52 see these residents walking the street about how much
10:54:54 they love their neighbor and shaking their hand.
10:54:57 You know, we got old check cashing places, come into
10:55:03 poor neighborhoods.
10:55:04 They don't go into rich neighborhoods.
10:55:06 They come into our neighborhood.
10:55:07 Setting up, you know.
10:55:09 But I disagree with this kind of thing.
10:55:12 And I tell you, I'm amazed at you all supporting
10:55:15 something like this.
10:55:20 Ms. Miller, I heard you say build houses with a
10:55:24 carport.
10:55:25 Houses so small, you know, they look like private
10:55:28 houses.
10:55:29 I got a thing all over town, you know, and I'm used
10:55:37 to -- I just took my family.
10:55:39 My family is coming to town.

10:55:41 Give them a ride all over town.
10:55:42 They love to see this great big old castle looking
10:55:47 house.
10:55:47 (Bell sounds)
10:55:56 >>> My name is Rick Calzabia, 1219 north Howard.
10:56:03 I have not been sworn.
10:56:04 (Oath administered by Clerk)
10:56:08 I'll be brief.
10:56:09 I just want to say that for those of you that don't
10:56:11 know me, I do run a business, and several commercial
10:56:15 and residential pieces of property in the
10:56:18 neighborhood.
10:56:18 And I love what Intown homes has done for old Tampa,
10:56:25 West Tampa.
10:56:26 I have all the faith in Ed Turanchik and Teresa to
10:56:29 tell that you they will do -- they will continue to do
10:56:32 a good job.
10:56:33 And I ask you to support them.
10:56:43 >>> My name is Ed Turanchik.
10:56:47 Intown homes.
10:56:48 I have been sworn.
10:56:48 I am just going to address the comments made.

10:56:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Rebuttal is ten minutes.
10:56:54 >>> I can take considerably less than that.
10:56:56 First I would like to put something on the Elmo.
10:57:02 If we can zoom up.
10:57:07 We have a picture of a barbecue party we had on July
10:57:11 4th.
10:57:15 These are new people that bought in West Tampa.
10:57:18 These are people who, as Ronald Reagan said, have
10:57:21 voted with their feet.
10:57:24 Crime in the last three years is down 45% in this
10:57:27 precinct.
10:57:28 45%.
10:57:31 We have had $7 million of property values.
10:57:33 This precinct, census tract, if you will, we build out
10:57:39 based upon who our demographics are coming in.
10:57:42 It will probably be the most ethically diverse census
10:57:46 track in the Tampa Bay area.
10:57:47 The homes we are doing are more expensive than the
10:57:52 existing homes that are there.
10:57:54 But in the marketplace, when we looked at the parade
10:57:57 of homes, we are the lowest priced single-family homes
10:58:00 in the region, period.

10:58:04 We are building on 25 lots because that is the
10:58:07 historic pattern in West Tampa.
10:58:11 That is the whole point of the rezoning several years
10:58:14 ago to go back and recreate the form and massing of
10:58:19 West Tampa.
10:58:20 We do have narrow street front yards and side yards
10:58:23 because that's the historic pattern.
10:58:25 We do have parking in the rear off the alleys because
10:58:28 that's the historic pattern.
10:58:30 And I don't want to get embroiled in issues whether
10:58:35 gated communities or not gate communities high crime.
10:58:38 I think that we are demonstrating if you have a front
10:58:40 porch community, even without gates, it had an effect
10:58:46 on crime.
10:58:47 We did some social engineering here that no developer
10:58:50 has ever done.
10:58:50 We required every person buying a home to sign an
10:58:53 agreement that they will live there for three years.
10:58:55 It's backed by right of first refusal and warrant and
10:58:59 deed restrictions.
10:59:00 And we have a mandatory two-year lawn maintenance
10:59:05 agreement so we make the front yards, back yards,

10:59:09 everything looks nice.
10:59:10 The big issue here is this design issue.
10:59:12 And I think we have addressed that.
10:59:14 And it's on the record that we put before council.
10:59:17 But I do want to make something clear.
10:59:19 On March 8th we looked at e-mail to Michael
10:59:22 Randolph and Dr. Fisher saying we would like to appear
10:59:25 before the overlay committee to present our designs.
10:59:28 60 days before our hearing, roughly.
10:59:30 That didn't happen until early April when we presented
10:59:34 our designs.
10:59:35 And we were asked to represent our designs at a
10:59:38 subsequent meeting of the overlay committee, which we
10:59:40 did.
10:59:41 And we asked people for their input and for their
10:59:46 critical input.
10:59:47 If you don't like this design, how would you change
10:59:49 it? And we did not have a single constructive
10:59:51 comment.
10:59:52 We just don't like it.
10:59:53 Now, people do have their right to their opinion, and
10:59:56 we understand that.

10:59:58 And design is a matter of great subjectivity.
11:00:02 And we understand that.
11:00:04 But I want to assure the members that we have met with
11:00:06 the overlay committee, we have met with the chairman
11:00:12 of CDC and their Executive Director.
11:00:15 And there is no agreement with the overlay committee.
11:00:17 I will tell you personally, we have great concerns
11:00:20 about the entitlement between the CDC and overlay
11:00:24 committee and that's a matter that I think deserves
11:00:27 attention as West Tampa moves forward.
11:00:28 But I am not going to go into that.
11:00:31 The other thing is I have taken an assessment that in
11:00:34 our immediate area, there is over 350 that you square
11:00:38 feet of very large buildings of flat roofs and parapet
11:00:43 walls that our lots are immediately adjacent to.
11:00:47 The point of it is that from an architectural
11:00:50 perspective this building doesn't make a difference
11:00:52 whether it's next to a residence or commercial
11:00:54 structure.
11:00:55 What makes the difference in the building is what the
11:00:59 size and shape of the building it's next to.
11:01:02 Furthermore, we have gone forward in our own sales and

11:01:09 limited flat roofs and parapet walls to those areas
11:01:12 where there are flat roofs and parapet walls because
11:01:17 we believe in and support the architectural integrity
11:01:21 of West Tampa.
11:01:26 We did offer the lot with the pecan tree to the lady
11:01:28 next door, and precisely the same terms and conditions
11:01:33 which would limit its use to us, mainly, not use it
11:01:38 for resale, you had to use it for homestead purposes,
11:01:42 and we proposed to sell it to the person at the price
11:01:47 that was our price.
11:01:48 And the person rejected that.
11:01:51 I want to state that council members, four of you
11:01:55 weren't here, three of you were.
11:01:56 We kept our agreement, and I think we even provided
11:01:59 letters of offer to that individual.
11:02:02 That's an unusual thing to do but I'm only telling you
11:02:06 that, it's unusual for us to provide those letters to
11:02:10 you of a private transaction, but we only did it
11:02:13 because that was a matter in the prior hearing.
11:02:19 I think that basically covers all the points that were
11:02:23 raised.
11:02:27 I think the principle one at the end of the day, why

11:02:30 we are here is to bring fresh designs here, to bring
11:02:36 an affordable green energy conserving home that can be
11:02:39 built on a 25-foot lot.
11:02:42 The great irony is that product which is the least
11:02:47 expensive and most efficient to run is the most
11:02:50 affordable one in our inventory.
11:02:52 So I'm a bit surprised about the whole thing to tell
11:02:57 you the truth.
11:02:58 We are trying to do it right.
11:02:59 We are trying to rebuild a grand neighborhood.
11:03:03 We really do appreciate the relationships we have.
11:03:09 Ms. McNair, Mr. Craig who got up, we are friends, we
11:03:13 have worked together on things, we hope the council
11:03:17 will move forward and approve the rezoning application
11:03:21 as it is.
11:03:22 And we will continue to work together to build a great
11:03:24 neighborhood in West Tampa.
11:03:25 Thank you.
11:03:26 >>GWEN MILLER: Ed Turanchik, let me ask you a
11:03:29 question.
11:03:29 You said that you met with the overlay district.
11:03:31 Did they approve the flat roof --

11:03:34 >>> No, ma'am.
11:03:35 >>GWEN MILLER: So you couldn't work with them and come
11:03:37 up with a compromise?
11:03:38 >>> Madam Chairman, honestly, we didn't know what the
11:03:42 overlay committee's position was, never received a
11:03:45 letter from them.
11:03:46 There was no public -- their deliberations were in
11:03:49 private.
11:03:50 There were no minutes kept.
11:03:51 And the first time I heard of what the overlay
11:03:53 committee's position was, was the night of that
11:03:56 meeting.
11:03:57 I have never received any written correspondence or
11:04:00 documentation of anything that transpired until that
11:04:04 night.
11:04:05 I heard that they voted to oppose it only through the
11:04:09 newspaper.
11:04:12 I met with Mr. Randolph about this and said this is in
11:04:14 a way to conduct business.
11:04:15 If you are going to be reviewing things that the
11:04:17 developer is going to go through, you may have a vote,
11:04:21 should have the courtesy of advising them about what

11:04:23 the basis for that vote was.
11:04:25 And I work with Mr. Randolph on a lot of things.
11:04:29 He said, you are right, we made a mistake. He was
11:04:32 counting on Jose Patino to advice me through the Tampa
11:04:36 Tribune.
11:04:37 So we stand where we are.
11:04:39 As I said that night, affordability and energy
11:04:43 efficiency is no accident.
11:04:45 It is a matter of concerted effort.
11:04:47 We have spent thousands of dollars and hundreds of
11:04:50 hours of professional time to figure out something
11:04:54 that would fit the affordable, the energy efficient,
11:04:58 and we have got a great design.
11:05:00 And we already have customers wanting to buy it.
11:05:04 >> But that's a problem of the flat roof, they don't
11:05:08 like the flat roof, it's not compatible with the
11:05:10 neighborhood.
11:05:11 One of the speakers said she rode around and didn't
11:05:14 see any flat roofs.
11:05:17 Not change the whole house.
11:05:20 >>> Madam Chairman, we understand.
11:05:21 In those areas where we will not build the flat roofs

11:05:28 but when I have a lot that's next to a building that's
11:05:30 a 30,000 square foot building three stories tall with
11:05:32 a flat roof, I will tell you, a roof with a V roof
11:05:35 doesn't fit as well as one with the flat roof.
11:05:39 It's just that simple.
11:05:42 Our architect stood up here.
11:05:43 He's an award winning architect.
11:05:45 He has worked on the overlay, helped create the
11:05:48 overlay.
11:05:48 Mr. Dingfelder -- not cross-examined him but queried
11:05:53 him as to the architectural consistency of what he
11:05:56 did, we are doing.
11:05:58 It is a matter of, I guess, judgment, and frankly it
11:06:04 is your judgment.
11:06:04 You are ultimately the land use body for this city.
11:06:08 Not me.
11:06:09 Not the West Tampa CDC.
11:06:10 Not the overlay committee.
11:06:11 Not the residents.
11:06:12 It is your power.
11:06:15 Councilman Dingfelder is right on.
11:06:16 It's your decision.

11:06:18 >> On those plans, it's shown that there will not be
11:06:20 flat roof homes next to another home that does not
11:06:23 have a flat roof?
11:06:25 Is that on the plan?
11:06:26 >>> No, ma'am.
11:06:27 >> So you can change it and put a flat roof right in
11:06:31 the neighborhood where there are none.
11:06:33 >>> Well, at some point, Madam Chairman, the
11:06:35 marketplace does have to work.
11:06:40 >> I'm saying if you build it between two houses, I
11:06:42 don't think you should put a flat roof between two
11:06:45 house that is do not have a flat roof.
11:06:47 That's what I'm saying.
11:06:48 Is that that on the plan?
11:06:50 >>> No.
11:06:50 We can put it anywhere, we try to use our judgment and
11:06:53 we have a major investment in West Tampa.
11:06:55 By the way, we build approximately 100 homes in West
11:06:58 Tampa.
11:06:59 Of those only 21 are on city lots and so far the 25, I
11:07:03 think eight have been on city lots.
11:07:05 We did not do this on speck.

11:07:07 We went out and bought the property first.
11:07:11 >> I'm not talking about the property.
11:07:12 I'm talking about what you bill on the property.
11:07:14 >>> I am talking about the property.
11:07:15 >> Are you going to build a flat roof between two
11:07:17 house that is does not have a flat roof?
11:07:20 >>> Not likely not.
11:07:21 >> What I'm saying is would you put on that plan?
11:07:25 >>> Because at then of the day I'm more happy if a
11:07:27 person will come in and say I want to make an
11:07:31 investment and live in West Tampa.
11:07:33 >> And they want a flat roof?
11:07:34 >>> Yes, ma'am.
11:07:35 >> I don't think so.
11:07:36 Mrs.
11:07:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Saul-Sena I was going to move to
11:07:38 close the public hearing.
11:07:40 >> I'll second it then we can discuss it.
11:07:42 >> Move to close the public hearing.
11:07:43 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a question for you.
11:07:48 We are not going to close it yet.
11:07:51 >>MARY MULHERN: Mr. Turanchik, you said when you had

11:07:54 the meeting with the overlay district they told you
11:07:55 that they didn't approve.
11:07:57 But are you saying they didn't tell you why?
11:08:04 >>> Wasn't advised of that.
11:08:05 >> You didn't hear that they disapproved?
11:08:07 >>> I read it in the paper.
11:08:08 >> Okay.
11:08:11 >>> As a matter of record in our notes, I swear on
11:08:14 oath, the meeting after that happened that that night
11:08:18 after we met the second time, I don't know what
11:08:21 happened, except members did go into a room, without
11:08:25 the press and the public and had whatever discussion
11:08:30 they had.
11:08:31 The next day I read in the paper that they were
11:08:33 opposing it.
11:08:35 That's all I knew.
11:08:36 And I received no additional communication, at all,
11:08:41 verbally, in writing, by e-mail, until I came here
11:08:45 that night.
11:08:46 I swear as a matter -- I did get affirmative
11:08:50 representation.
11:08:52 On oath before God.

11:08:54 I'm serious about that.
11:08:55 And I'm not happy about it.
11:08:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. McNair, were you at that meeting?
11:09:02 Were you at the overlay meeting with Mr. Ed Turanchik
11:09:05 was there?
11:09:06 Come up to the mike.
11:09:08 Were you there?
11:09:12 Mrs. McNair: Yes, we were at the meeting three weeks
11:09:15 ago at which he came, before he came to City Council.
11:09:21 >> Did you all make that recommendation?
11:09:24 >>> Can we make a reservation for him what we wanted?
11:09:27 >> Yes.
11:09:28 Tell him what you did, what you wanted?
11:09:30 >>> No, we just told him we didn't approve it.
11:09:33 >>GWEN MILLER: You had your hand up?
11:09:41 Okay, thank you.
11:09:42 You can't speak unless I ask you a question.
11:09:47 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: You said you were at that meeting
11:09:54 with Mr. Turanchik.
11:09:55 Did you tell him at that meeting you disapproved this
11:09:57 action?
11:09:59 >>> We was in another -- after we left him we went

11:10:03 into another room.
11:10:06 So he was -- we didn't approve it because it didn't
11:10:14 fit in the neighborhood, of the residential.
11:10:17 >> Was he there when you told him that or did he read
11:10:20 it in the newspaper?
11:10:21 >>> I don't know where he read it because I think
11:10:24 Michael was the one in charge of that call.
11:10:26 So once we had the meeting, I left it up to Michael to
11:10:30 do that.
11:10:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Ms. McNair.
11:10:38 We have a motion and second to close the public
11:10:40 hearing.
11:10:40 (Motion carried).
11:10:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: (off microphone) property in the
11:10:57 general vicinity of south west union street, west
11:10:59 Tampania Avenue, north Beach Street in the city of
11:11:03 Tampa, Florida and more particularly described in
11:11:04 section 1 from zoning district classifications RS-50
11:11:07 residential single family, RM-16 residential
11:11:10 multifamily, CI commercial intensive, and PD planned
11:11:13 development, single-family residential, to PD, planned
11:11:16 development, single-family residential, providing an

11:11:18 effective date.
11:11:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
11:11:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm going to support the motion by
11:11:26 council member Saul-Sena, and I see, what I heard, no
11:11:32 one is really upset.
11:11:33 They are upset about a roof configuration.
11:11:35 Let me say this.
11:11:36 Just the other day as I was driving, like Reverend
11:11:40 Scott I drive around once in a while, and I was coming
11:11:44 the expressway, and if I remember I think the first
11:11:46 row north of the expressway is green.
11:11:49 If you look at the 2400 block of Green you will see a
11:11:53 flat roof house, exactly almost like we are talking
11:11:57 about today.
11:12:00 I haven't looked for others but from memory I can tell
11:12:02 you there's another one on St. Louis further down.
11:12:04 It may not be in the historical district.
11:12:07 It's on Lynn and St. Louis.
11:12:09 But I have not traveled the district to give you an
11:12:11 opinion.
11:12:11 But I know of at least one that's there and been there
11:12:14 for a long, long time.

11:12:16 More likely older than me.
11:12:21 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Thank you.
11:12:22 If I recall, this same snare-
11:12:30 >>> This same.
11:12:30 >>: Owe, we had a discussion last week or week before
11:12:32 last?
11:12:33 I think councilman Miranda at that time stated all the
11:12:36 different flat roofs throughout West Tampa and
11:12:39 everything else, and had the same discussion and
11:12:42 argument.
11:12:45 And I think there's a better way we can do business
11:12:51 than rehashing the same thing.
11:12:56 Through the course of restating what we just did a
11:12:59 week ago.
11:13:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Caetano?
11:13:01 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: of course, if we go with the
11:13:04 pitched roof, that affordable house is going to cost
11:13:07 more money.
11:13:08 Also, the person that buys that house with a pitched
11:13:11 roof is going to have to pay more money on insurance
11:13:14 and more money on taxes, and the point about a flat
11:13:21 roof is, I believe, the way to go.

11:13:25 And I will support this motion.
11:13:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
11:13:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Scott, in quick response to
11:13:37 what you said, Mr. Shelby brought something out at our
11:13:42 public meeting last night, and I think it's something
11:13:47 we are going to continue to discuss.
11:13:48 It might not have to go to an extreme position of
11:13:52 mimicking the county, but that we could eliminate sort
11:13:56 of the second bite of the apple which is where we are
11:13:59 at today.
11:13:59 I haven't heard anything new today.
11:14:01 I respect the comments that we have heard from the
11:14:04 community.
11:14:05 I respected it last time and I respect it this time.
11:14:09 But it didn't change.
11:14:10 And I think that you make a very good point, you know,
11:14:14 that maybe if we don't have to have a second public
11:14:18 hearing, we just have to have a second public reading,
11:14:22 that might be the way to go.
11:14:23 But that's a side comment, not necessarily directly
11:14:26 related to this issue.
11:14:27 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.

11:14:29 Vote and record.
11:14:34 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miller voting no.
11:14:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
11:14:40 wants to speak on item 36?
11:14:42 >> Move to close.
11:14:43 >> Second.
11:14:43 (Motion carried).
11:14:48 >>MARY MULHERN: I move to adopt the following
11:14:50 ordinance upon second reading.
11:14:52 An ordinance being presented for second reading, an
11:14:55 ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity of
11:14:57 1700 North Westshore Boulevard in the city of Tampa,
11:14:59 Florida and more particularly described in section 1
11:15:02 from zoning district classifications PD, planned
11:15:05 development, restaurant, to PD, planned development,
11:15:08 restaurant, providing an effective date.
11:15:10 >> Second.
11:15:11 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion an second.
11:15:13 Vote and record.
11:15:15 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
11:15:24 >>GWEN MILLER: We go to item number 37.
11:15:28 Need to open.

11:15:28 >> So moved.
11:15:29 >> Second.
11:15:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mover to continue to June 14th
11:15:33 at 5:30.
11:15:34 >> It would actually be June 28th at 9:30.
11:15:37 The first public hearing was continued to the evening
11:15:40 session.
11:15:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: June 28th.
11:15:43 >> Second.
11:15:43 (Motion carried).
11:15:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 38.
11:15:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to open and continue to June
11:15:51 28th.
11:15:52 >> Second.
11:15:52 (Motion carried).
11:15:53 >> 9:30.
11:16:00 (Motion carried).
11:16:02 >> Item number 39 we cannot hear.
11:16:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I think we open it?
11:16:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe --
11:16:17 >>> Assistant city attorney Hargrett.
11:16:19 I think we need a motion under your code that

11:16:22 indicates that where notice has been failed -- facts
11:16:29 on record occurs, you are not to reschedule the
11:16:31 meeting, and that City Council shall deny such an
11:16:34 appeal.
11:16:35 So with that in mind I would request that you make a
11:16:38 motion to deny the appeal based upon failure to
11:16:42 perfect the record.
11:16:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I make a motion to deny based on
11:16:49 the fact that this was also scheduled for March
11:16:52 22nd change to a day, and I don't know if there's
11:16:56 anyone in the audience to discuss this but the
11:16:57 audience requiring for the complete verbatim
11:17:02 transcript of the record was not received.
11:17:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If they wish to speak to the issue
11:17:07 solely on the motion and to the provision of that
11:17:15 section of the code that would be appropriate.
11:17:16 >>> Scott Brent, the agent for the person, and we did
11:17:20 miss the first appeal hearing.
11:17:26 Because I wasn't going to be here first of all and
11:17:28 there were some things that weren't completely
11:17:29 together so we were going to go ahead.
11:17:31 And I talked to the deputy city clerk about this,

11:17:34 about the rescheduling, even sent e-mails asking, what
11:17:39 do we need to do to get ready for the second one
11:17:41 because I don't want to miss this this time.
11:17:43 She said wait until the hearing, make a motion,
11:17:46 reschedule it and I'll get a letter for it.
11:17:48 So I waited for this letter, and it never showed up.
11:17:53 And I was told that it was sent to me certified mail.
11:17:57 And unfortunately it was not sent the way a certified
11:18:02 letter normally should be sent where you send out the
11:18:05 letter certified and you are sending another letter
11:18:07 out with it.
11:18:09 Had that happened, I would have received notice on
11:18:11 time to do what I needed to do to be ready for this
11:18:13 date.
11:18:14 Unfortunately, the way I found the letter is I had to
11:18:16 contact the deputy city clerk and ask them where the
11:18:20 letter was.
11:18:23 Ed and then I finally get the letter but by that time
11:18:27 tall deadlines had passed for me to get anything done.
11:18:31 And I don't think I was noticed properly on this.
11:18:33 I was told to wait for it.
11:18:34 I never received it.

11:18:37 I have a mailman that refuses to knock on the door and
11:18:39 delivers things.
11:18:40 He just puts a little note and says we'll redeliver
11:18:42 it.
11:18:43 You wait for it and you get another notice.
11:18:45 By the time I thought I was going to get this I
11:18:47 finally contacted her and found out that at that time
11:18:52 it was too late to be done.
11:18:53 And I wanted to request another date to do this
11:18:55 because of that.
11:18:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: The mention was made about the
11:19:02 notice being certified.
11:19:04 Do we have a copy that this was received at any time
11:19:07 during the mailing?
11:19:08 Because there was reference that that's the cause for
11:19:11 another hearing to be set.
11:19:12 So I'm asking the legal department, do you have that
11:19:15 little copy that's sent out that's signed?
11:19:18 >>> That would be locate in the clerk's office.
11:19:20 And the clerk has indicated to me, Ms. Marshall has
11:19:23 indicated to me that that letter was sent out shortly
11:19:25 after the public hearing where the new date was given,

11:19:29 and three attempts were made to send that certified
11:19:33 letter out.
11:19:33 That certified letter also is done as a courtesy.
11:19:37 It is not required under the code because the date is
11:19:39 set at a public hearing.
11:19:40 Also, that same letter, the same format, is sent, was
11:19:44 sent when this was originally scheduled for the first
11:19:47 date.
11:19:48 And in that document, it indicates -- I sent a memo to
11:19:52 you all identifying all of these things.
11:19:54 It indicates that this is a courtesy and what the
11:19:57 requirements and due dates are.
11:19:58 So that particular certified was being -- it wasn't
11:20:04 received.
11:20:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: May I continue?
11:20:09 Clerk, Ms. Marshall, do you have that receipt?
11:20:13 >>THE CLERK: We have the return envelope back from the
11:20:15 post office showing that delivery was attempted on
11:20:18 March 28, April 3rd, April 13th, unclaimed,
11:20:23 return to sender, and also advised by e-mail to Mr.
11:20:30 Brant that a letter would be sent out, and did he not
11:20:33 respond back until April 13th.

11:20:35 And that's when I advised him that the letter had been
11:20:37 mailed by certified mail.
11:20:39 I believe that his e-mail to me he indicated that he
11:20:41 had received a notice from the post office but had not
11:20:44 picked up the letter.
11:20:48 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: If I can ask the attorney a
11:20:50 question.
11:20:50 Did you mail the certified letter --
11:20:54 >>THE CLERK: One letter by certified mail return
11:21:01 receipt as proof that the letter was sent to the
11:21:03 petitioner.
11:21:04 >> So a second letter wasn't sent the same day.
11:21:08 >>> We send one letter out by certified mail so we
11:21:10 have a receipt that they received notice.
11:21:13 >> Again that's done as a courtesy and that was sent
11:21:15 by the same method and received at the same address.
11:21:17 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Maybe that would be a good idea
11:21:20 in the future to mail a regular letter, and if that
11:21:23 letter comes back undeliverable, that means he hadn't
11:21:26 received it.
11:21:29 >>> I understand your point.
11:21:30 And the clerk can address that issue and the

11:21:33 feasibility as to that.
11:21:35 But as I mentioned the date is set at the public
11:21:37 hearing for the continuance.
11:21:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion on the floor, motion and second.
11:21:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to ask our attorney, does
11:21:47 council have any flexibility in this matter?
11:21:51 >>> No, ma'am.
11:21:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
11:21:53 All in favor say Aye.
11:21:55 Opposed, Nay.
11:21:57 Thank you, sir.
11:21:58 That's it.
11:21:59 >>> So I don't have a chance to get my say?
11:22:02 >>GWEN MILLER: Withdrawn it.
11:22:03 >>> I don't agree with that at all.
11:22:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Talk with the attorney.
11:22:06 We are going to move on with our agenda.
11:22:08 You can talk with the attorney.
11:22:10 We go to council business.
11:22:12 Mrs. Saul-Sena, do you have anything?
11:22:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Two things.
11:22:14 Next Thursday I would like to give commendation to the

11:22:20 Lockwood children.
11:22:23 >> Second.
11:22:23 (Motion carried).
11:22:24 >> Secondly, last nature before the T.H.A.N. meeting I
11:22:27 attended the EPA rule making meeting about crematoria,
11:22:33 and they came up with some really excellent
11:22:35 suggestions to better protect neighborhoods within the
11:22:41 proximity of crematoria.
11:22:44 In residential areas.
11:22:46 We have until May 23rd to provide public comment
11:22:49 on that.
11:22:50 What I suggest is we have a council meeting between
11:22:54 now and May 23rd so I'll get the information to
11:22:56 all the council members so at our next council meeting
11:23:00 we can consider taking action as a group to encourage
11:23:03 the EPC staff to come up with some excellent
11:23:07 suggestions to adopt them.
11:23:11 To encourage the EPC to adopt the suggestions and
11:23:14 recommendations developed by their staff.
11:23:17 So I'll provide that to all the council members prior
11:23:19 to our next council meeting with the idea that we can
11:23:22 do something on it next council meeting.

11:23:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Anything else?
11:23:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's all.
11:23:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I just want to bring you a weekly
11:23:30 update on the river and the water.
11:23:31 The river flow from December 2nd to -- excuse me,
11:23:36 from May 2nd to May 9th has increased by 1.28
11:23:41 feet. The reservoir level from the same date from 5-2
11:23:45 to 5-9 has gone down .17.
11:23:48 What's ironic about that is that the water use has
11:23:52 gone up on watering days to 98.35 million gallons a
11:23:59 day.
11:23:59 On nonwatering days it's still at 87.63.
11:24:03 And I'm asking all those that are listening to this
11:24:07 and all those that are going to read in the paper
11:24:09 hopefully and different media to make sure that we
11:24:12 have conservation.
11:24:13 It's up to all of us, not this council, not this
11:24:18 administration, but everyone that receives water from
11:24:20 the City of Tampa.
11:24:22 There have been 60 citations given in the last week.
11:24:25 And I guarantee you once it starts there's going to be
11:24:28 4 or 500 a week.

11:24:30 So I'm asking you, don't get caught by watering on
11:24:32 non-watering days.
11:24:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Anything else?
11:24:35 Mr. Dingfelder?
11:24:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Madam Chair.
11:24:38 A few items.
11:24:40 I made a motion a couple weeks ago about Jill Buford
11:24:43 to get a commendation.
11:24:44 She's been president of Port Tampa neighborhood
11:24:46 association for many, many years.
11:24:49 She's going to come in and get a commendation on June
11:24:51 7th.
11:24:55 >> Second.
11:24:55 (Motion carried).
11:24:56 >> Secondly last night at our meeting there was some
11:25:01 grumbling about the workshop that we are going to
11:25:05 discuss in terms of the fact that they said we are
11:25:09 going to be work shopping in the afternoon of the
11:25:11 31st.
11:25:11 And I was just wondering if there was some way that we
11:25:16 could possibly fix that, or if council was concerned
11:25:20 about that.

11:25:22 They said it was a very important issue to the
11:25:24 community, to the neighborhood associations, to
11:25:26 T.H.A.N., and they were concerned that we were work
11:25:30 shopping that issue in the afternoon.
11:25:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Dingfelder, what I might
11:25:37 suggest is that on an evening when we are meeting
11:25:39 anyway, such as the June 14th, we are getting
11:25:44 together at 5:30.
11:25:45 Perhaps we could make that at 5:00, which would then
11:25:49 be a bit easier for neighborhood people, and we are
11:25:53 all gathering that evening anyway.
11:25:57 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like to present --
11:26:00 >>GWEN MILLER: No, not yet.
11:26:04 I thought you had a question.
11:26:13 >> Workshops are for the council.
11:26:15 And obviously this will be televised and shown over
11:26:19 and over and over.
11:26:20 So it's really just information for council to decide
11:26:23 what you want to look at that or whether you want to
11:26:26 move to some form so it's really information for
11:26:32 council to make a decision, so, you know, again I
11:26:41 think that we had a very good meeting last night.

11:26:47 And you can always have public hearings on it as well.
11:26:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I guess I get confuse sometimes
11:26:57 about workshop versus -- what's the other things in
11:27:00 our rules?
11:27:01 Special discussion meetings?
11:27:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I can, a workshop shall be defined
11:27:07 as a meeting of the City Council held for the purpose
11:27:09 of council being informed on and matters of special
11:27:13 concern that require time in excess of that usually
11:27:15 afforded for staff reports at regular meetings.
11:27:18 Workshops shall be held on such day and time as shall
11:27:21 be designated by majority vote of City Council or may
11:27:24 also be scheduled within the agenda of a regular
11:27:26 meeting.
11:27:26 Any member of City Council may ask questions of any
11:27:30 person present during the workshop.
11:27:32 The public may be heard on the matter which is the
11:27:35 subject of the workshop if upon motion and vote of
11:27:37 council a majority vote could the chair opens the
11:27:41 floor for public comment during the workshop.
11:27:43 No official anxious on the matter which is the subject
11:27:45 of the workshop shall be taken during or after

11:27:48 workshop unless the public is afforded the opportunity
11:27:50 to comment prior to action.
11:27:53 However, directions to staff resulting from the
11:27:56 workshop do not require public comment.
11:27:59 A special discussion meeting is something that does
11:28:02 not require a quorum.
11:28:03 A workshop does.
11:28:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I guess we sort of insinuate to the
11:28:11 community that we wanted their input on this important
11:28:14 issue.
11:28:15 We do have flexibility in our workshop procedure, as
11:28:18 Mr. Shelby said, to not take or to take public
11:28:21 comment.
11:28:23 I'm flexible on this.
11:28:24 I think Ms. Saul-Sena had an interesting idea to
11:28:28 combine it into a night meeting.
11:28:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Maybe on the 31st, we are very
11:28:32 lucky this month has five Thursdays, or quite a few
11:28:37 Thursdays.
11:28:37 We don't have an evening meeting.
11:28:39 That's the day that we had planned to have this
11:28:41 workshop anyway at 1:30.

11:28:43 Perhaps the way to make everybody happy is to have the
11:28:46 workshop at five in stead of at 1:30 in the afternoon.
11:28:50 And that way we have our workshop, but we also make it
11:28:53 more accessible to the public.
11:28:55 And we don't limit the time by putting it prior to a
11:28:58 zoning meeting.
11:28:58 >>MARY MULHERN: Thanks for reading that.
11:29:06 Because I think that clarifies.
11:29:09 This is about us having a discussion more than a
11:29:12 public hearing.
11:29:12 And we can't take any action at a workshop?
11:29:15 Is that correct?
11:29:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You can, if you choose.
11:29:18 First of all, the action you can take are directions
11:29:20 to staff resulting from the workshop.
11:29:24 >> So whatever we talk about and arrive at is going to
11:29:26 come to the public hearing.
11:29:29 And not some change.
11:29:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Obviously what would probably most
11:29:35 happen, if there is any desire for a change, would be
11:29:38 a direction to the legal department to return with an
11:29:40 ordinance.

11:29:41 And obviously an ordinance does require a first
11:29:43 reading and second reading on public hearing.
11:29:46 And obviously if you are going to be changing a
11:29:47 process that involves land use it will very well have
11:29:50 to go to the Planning Commission and that's something
11:29:52 you will have to discuss.
11:29:54 >> I feel like we would get more done if we don't have
11:29:57 more people there.
11:29:58 And it should be a council meeting.
11:29:59 So I think we should keep it during the day.
11:30:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Other comments?
11:30:12 >> If you want a motion.
11:30:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My feeling is we should be as
11:30:16 transparent as possible.
11:30:17 And as long as we are going to be a council doing
11:30:19 this, I don't think the difference between doing it at
11:30:22 1:30 and 5, I don't think it will inconvenience us and
11:30:25 make us more accessible to the public who are
11:30:27 interested and who probably do want to hear the back
11:30:29 and forth of it.
11:30:31 My motion would be to reschedule the workshop on May
11:30:35 31st from 1:30 to 5:00.

11:30:40 >> Second.
11:30:40 And with the second I'll just say it's not just the
11:30:43 neighborhood association.
11:30:44 It's the development community and any other
11:30:46 interested folks who might be interested in commenting
11:30:50 to us on this very important change.
11:30:51 I think they should comment as early as possible.
11:30:54 Because otherwise what we could do is we could have
11:30:57 our little tight meeting here and just discuss it
11:31:01 among ourselves, then we could direct staff to go
11:31:03 ahead and spend a lot of time, you know, doing all
11:31:06 this, and then when we hear from the public, if
11:31:08 there's a huge uproar and all of a sudden, oh, that's
11:31:11 not such a good idea after all, and then staff just
11:31:14 waste add bunch of time doing it.
11:31:16 And that's why I think hearing from the community, in
11:31:18 a formalized fashion early on, is the most efficient
11:31:21 way of getting that input, and limiting staff time.
11:31:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We already set the original date and
11:31:34 time.
11:31:35 >> 1:30.
11:31:36 >> Three and a half hour difference.

11:31:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: To go to five instead.
11:31:46 >>THE CLERK: To have it immediately after the hearing
11:31:49 zoning master.
11:31:50 Do you want both of them moved to 1:30, or 5?
11:31:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: 5:00.
11:31:58 >> I think you referred to chapter 3.
11:32:00 >> And that workshop had to be after the --
11:32:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm sorry, I wasn't reading it
11:32:05 carefully.
11:32:06 I think both in the evening.
11:32:09 Because it involves the same citizens who are
11:32:12 interested.
11:32:14 >>JULIA COLE: If I may make one comment.
11:32:16 I heard some confusion.
11:32:17 I want to make it clear that the issue relating to
11:32:20 chapter 3 and zoning, special uses, while we have been
11:32:23 talking about it in the context of a hearing officer
11:32:26 process, really they are two separate issues and but I
11:32:30 want to clarify that for you and for anybody else that
11:32:35 heard about it last night.
11:32:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Is it clear?
11:32:39 Motion and second.

11:32:40 (Motion carried).
11:32:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Then two other items.
11:32:56 It's always healthy for us to admit perhaps we were
11:32:59 wrong.
11:33:00 And I'm going to do that.
11:33:04 The last term, there was an issue the administration
11:33:07 brought to council and was called "adopt a waterway."
11:33:12 Basically the adopt a waterway program was presented
11:33:14 to council in a nutshell, it was to allow people to
11:33:19 put up some type of commercial signage along our
11:33:24 streets, and then the city and the private person who
11:33:28 was orchestrating that makes a certain amount of
11:33:31 money.
11:33:31 That money is then funneled into cleaning up our
11:33:34 waterways.
11:33:35 And specifically they were talking about purchasing a
11:33:38 boat and putting a city employee on that boat to
11:33:43 continue to clean up our waterways.
11:33:44 I don't know if you all saw that in the newspaper at
11:33:47 the time.
11:33:47 Anyway, I voted against it.
11:33:50 Council voted against it.

11:33:51 Basically our objection was we didn't want any more
11:33:54 sign pollution.
11:33:55 We were in favor of cleaning up the waterways but
11:33:57 didn't want any more sign pollution.
11:33:59 I was hopeful that at some point in time the
11:34:01 administration would find money to go ahead and do the
11:34:03 waterway clean-up without the sign component.
11:34:10 Clearly, that day never came last year and it's not
11:34:15 going to come in the near future because as we are
11:34:17 having budget cuts, the possibility of getting
11:34:20 somebody out on our waterways to clean up our
11:34:23 waterways as an additional service to this community
11:34:25 is more and more remote.
11:34:27 With that, I'm going to make a motion to see if the
11:34:31 administration is still interested in bringing back
11:34:33 that public-private partnership to come back and
11:34:37 address that issue, and if the administration is
11:34:39 interested in it, move forward with it again, then I
11:34:45 might be supportive this time.
11:34:47 That's the motion.
11:34:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
11:34:49 (Motion carried).

11:34:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And then the last thing is, Ms.
11:34:54 Saul-Sena and I attended a green -- what was it,
11:34:57 Linda?
11:34:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Chamber of Commerce luncheon
11:35:00 looking at green opportunities in our community, green
11:35:03 buildings.
11:35:04 >> Green buildings.
11:35:05 And the incentives that a community can provide to
11:35:09 encourage green buildings and environmentally
11:35:13 sensitive construction.
11:35:14 And what I have given council today -- and Mr. Shelby,
11:35:20 I have a copy for you -- is a copy of a resolution
11:35:23 that Sarasota County did last year, resolution
11:35:26 2006-174 from Sarasota County commissioners.
11:35:29 And this is just to give us a little bit of guidance,
11:35:32 perhaps as to where we could head on this issue.
11:35:35 Basically in the M most important items I think are on
11:35:39 page 2 it talks about expediting permit applications,
11:35:43 and expediting other types of approvals for commercial
11:35:47 and residential construction.
11:35:48 If somebody comes in with a certified green building
11:35:55 that an architect has certified this is going to be a

11:35:58 green buildings, one of the incentives, it doesn't
11:36:00 cost the city any money, is just move them ahead of
11:36:02 the line to get processed through our system.
11:36:08 I think as a start that's the least we can do.
11:36:10 And maybe there's some other things we can add onto
11:36:13 that down the road.
11:36:13 What I would like to do is move that Mr. Shelby take
11:36:16 this as a little bit of a framework, and working with
11:36:21 staff come back to us either with a resolution, or an
11:36:29 ordinance, whichever, Mr. Shelby would deem the most
11:36:33 effective and appropriate.
11:36:37 >> Second.
11:36:40 >> I agree with everything other than at the top of
11:36:44 the line.
11:36:45 When you have a process and a system that's going on,
11:36:47 I don't think if I went to an emergency room that I am
11:36:49 going to get special treatment because I'm a council
11:36:52 member.
11:36:57 You wait in line just like anybody else.
11:36:59 If what I heard is correct, sometimes I don't hear too
11:37:02 well, is that they get a special -- within three days
11:37:05 or five days, that should be the normal on any

11:37:09 contract on anyone that appears before the entity to
11:37:14 receive the building permit to process.
11:37:17 Certainly, I've heard that there's been some delays
11:37:21 and those things cost money.
11:37:23 And I agree to that point.
11:37:25 The others only thing I do not agree on is to change
11:37:27 the process where somebody comes with a type of
11:37:30 construction and therefore they are given preferential
11:37:33 treatment.
11:37:33 I don't believe -- my tongue is stuck -- in
11:37:41 preferential treatment because I don't believe that's
11:37:43 the right course.
11:37:44 Only on that one issue.
11:37:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: On Monday of this week the Pasco
11:37:49 County commission had a four-hour workshop on green
11:37:53 buildings.
11:37:53 And they are doing something like this.
11:37:56 The county commission has already adopted this.
11:37:58 And they have a five-day turn around.
11:38:02 Everybody else is getting it with and I think we need
11:38:04 to.
11:38:04 Perhaps council members would feel more comfortable if

11:38:06 they had a presentation on the whole green building
11:38:08 thing, and they would understand how moving to the
11:38:12 front of the line is -- it's something we can offer
11:38:16 that doesn't cost us money that does encourage good
11:38:18 behavior.
11:38:19 So perhaps we can schedule the green building council
11:38:23 to give us a one-hour, not the four-hour version, so
11:38:26 everyone will really understand how important it is
11:38:28 that we adopt green buildings, and come up with
11:38:30 incentives to encourage them in our community.
11:38:33 But I support this motion.
11:38:34 I think that time is money, and if this is something
11:38:38 that will mean a lot in terms of keeping our area more
11:38:41 sustainable, more healthy, more green, we should do
11:38:44 it.
11:38:45 And it doesn't cost us anything.
11:38:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Come up with another incentive.
11:38:51 We need to streamline that anyway, but moving people
11:38:54 ahead, who have been waiting three or four weeks, and
11:38:57 jump ahead of you, you are going to get angry.
11:39:00 They are going to find out why did that person move
11:39:02 up?

11:39:03 And everyone can't afford to pay that fee and move up
11:39:06 so we have to streamline and make things move faster,
11:39:09 I think.
11:39:13 If things are the way they are now we don't have to
11:39:15 come up with incentives.
11:39:16 I think we need to work with that department to get it
11:39:19 working better.
11:39:24 >> The question of affordable housing one of the issues
11:39:29 was the affordable housing and streamline the process,
11:39:34 where such an issue for this community.
11:39:42 How does that affect affordable housing?
11:39:44 >>MARY MULHERN: I think that obviously there's a lot
11:39:48 here.
11:39:48 And so rushing to do one incentive, I think we would
11:39:53 be better off having a workshop.
11:40:03 And all the problems of green buildings we haven't
11:40:05 even talked about it.
11:40:06 It's a big problem and it's something that I think
11:40:08 deserves -- I don't see why we couldn't find four
11:40:13 hours to get green building.
11:40:15 Is it green building council to present to us?
11:40:18 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second on the

11:40:20 floor.
11:40:20 Mr. Dingfelder.
11:40:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just a quick comment to Mr. Scott.
11:40:25 The affordable housing issue is absolutely -- we made
11:40:28 a motion two years ago to ask staff to come to us to
11:40:32 specifically bring us some incentive plan for
11:40:34 affordable housing, and that incentive plan, if we
11:40:38 hadn't done it yet, should include the same type of
11:40:41 move to the head of the line, or at least if you don't
11:40:43 want to call it move to the head of the line, it
11:40:45 doesn't matter what we call it, expedited review,
11:40:48 okay?
11:40:48 Affordable housing deserves it and deserves it more
11:40:51 than anything else.
11:40:53 And I would say that green construction deserves it
11:40:57 also above standard construction.
11:40:59 But you know what?
11:41:00 If council wants to back off on my motion in terms of
11:41:03 asking Mr. Shelby to specifically develop a resolution
11:41:08 ordinance, then I'm okay with that, but I think that
11:41:10 we need to workshop this, we need to look at this.
11:41:13 There was a huge turnout in the Tampa Chamber of

11:41:16 Commerce, and Mr. Mark Sharpe stood up and was very
11:41:20 proud to announce that the county has already done
11:41:22 this.
11:41:22 Mr. Scott, you were probably already there when the
11:41:24 county was doing it. The county has already done this
11:41:27 and they have got an expedited review.
11:41:29 They move these green buildings to the front of the
11:41:31 line.
11:41:31 And I was embarrassed to say that the city was behind
11:41:34 the county on this important environmental issue.
11:41:38 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Recently, the county, I
11:41:40 understand, has reduced their workforce in permitting.
11:41:43 They don't work on Fridays.
11:41:45 Okay?
11:41:45 So evidently construction is down, and I hear people
11:41:50 every day saying, when is the city going to speed
11:41:53 their process up down at the building department?
11:41:56 I don't know what's going down there.
11:41:58 I know I have been down there a number of times in the
11:42:00 past year for some building permits.
11:42:02 And I see a lot of people around.
11:42:05 And everybody is still waiting.

11:42:07 Now, Mr. Dingfelder, on item 2 here, on the second
11:42:12 page, is this going to be a workshop basically?
11:42:20 >> A workshop.
11:42:22 >> I support the idea but I don't like some of the
11:42:25 things where the permit has to be done in three days
11:42:28 where some other guy is waiting for weeks and weeks.
11:42:30 So it's not fair.
11:42:31 And I know if Mr. Miranda goes to the doctor, he
11:42:35 doesn't want to be in front of the line either.
11:42:40 [ Laughter ]
11:42:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
11:42:43 In the spirit of compromise, if Mr. Dingfelder's
11:42:49 motion is changed so maybe we can ask the
11:42:51 administration, we have permitting for green on this
11:42:55 side, regular on this side, then they are going to be
11:42:57 in front of the line without being in front of the
11:42:58 line.
11:42:59 See what I'm saying?
11:43:00 In other words, one side is for green building
11:43:06 permits, go right in.
11:43:07 The other one is going to be a little longer.
11:43:09 So that way, if you have that in your motion I can

11:43:13 support it.
11:43:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
11:43:19 >> Something along those lines and it sounds like a
11:43:21 reasonable compromise.
11:43:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm just concerned about the clarity
11:43:26 of the motion.
11:43:27 There's a lot of things in here that do affect
11:43:30 administration.
11:43:32 So would the direction be to Cindy Miller, her
11:43:37 department?
11:43:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It's to ask you to work with this
11:43:44 resolution, not verbatim by any means.
11:43:47 Sarasota County I'm sure is totally different than
11:43:49 what we are.
11:43:50 But just to come up with some incentives as related to
11:43:55 the time of permit review.
11:43:59 And whether Miranda had a good idea.
11:44:01 Maybe it's sort of a different box that you drop the
11:44:04 green permits in this box and drop your other permits
11:44:06 in that box.
11:44:07 And it goes in that direction.
11:44:09 I think, Mr. Shelby, you can work with the

11:44:12 administration to come up with a program, and then
11:44:15 codify that in the form of a resolution or ordinance
11:44:18 that will effect this type of incentive program.
11:44:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Why don't we let Mr. Shelby go before
11:44:26 it before we do a resolution, bring it back to us and
11:44:28 see if this is what we want to come up with a
11:44:30 resolution.
11:44:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: How much time would you like?
11:44:33 How soon would you like?
11:44:35 >> Three days.
11:44:36 [ Laughter ]
11:44:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm looking at our calendar.
11:44:42 We could have the green building council provide a
11:44:45 workshop for us on June 7th.
11:44:48 Maybe by the 14th. That would afford Mr. Shelby
11:44:50 the opportunity to hear what the green building
11:44:52 council has.
11:44:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I include that as part of my
11:44:56 motion.
11:44:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: On the 14th.
11:44:58 >>GWEN MILLER: But not come back with a resolution.
11:45:02 We need to come up with some incentives or how we are

11:45:06 going to work this out and bring it back.
11:45:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It would be my suggestion you may
11:45:15 want to have her as part of the discussion or at least
11:45:17 when it comes back, but I can take it rather than
11:45:21 directing but as a policy statement of what council
11:45:23 wishes to do, council can use that resolution as a
11:45:27 starting point for discussion, and form a basis for
11:45:30 direction to the administration.
11:45:32 >>GWEN MILLER: I can support that.
11:45:34 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Also, you should consult with the
11:45:38 building department.
11:45:42 Set up another department?
11:45:43 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That's the reason why I raised the
11:45:47 concern, that obviously the logistics involved in this
11:45:51 go beyond legislative an involve the administrative,
11:45:54 and therefore obviously the administration and their
11:45:56 ability --
11:45:58 >> That's why you are going to work with Cindy miller
11:46:01 who works in that department.
11:46:04 >>GWEN MILLER: You need to clarify the motion now.
11:46:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I struck that part and said he
11:46:10 would work with Ms. Miller and the administration of

11:46:13 developing some incentives to -- with Mr. Miranda's
11:46:19 idea of perhaps different times, and also incorporated
11:46:24 Ms. Saul-Sena's motion about June --
11:46:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: 7th to get the green building
11:46:31 council.
11:46:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Shelby to come back June
11:46:35 14th with his report, now, and see what direction
11:46:37 we are going to go.
11:46:39 >> Second.
11:46:39 (Motion carried).
11:46:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move to ask the
11:46:44 green building council to provide a workshop for us on
11:46:47 June 14th after the Bayshore Boulevard about 3:00,
11:46:54 I guess.
11:46:56 The 7th.
11:46:57 I'm so sorry.
11:46:58 >> Second.
11:46:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Maybe a 2-hour workshop.
11:47:04 >> I second that.
11:47:04 (Motion carried).
11:47:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The time again is for a time certain,
11:47:09 is that correct?

11:47:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like it after Bayshore, to
11:47:13 follow Bayshore.
11:47:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Anything else, Mr. Dingfelder?
11:47:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No, thank you.
11:47:17 >>CHAIRMAN: Reverend Scott.
11:47:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I know we voted already on the
11:47:22 workshop to move to the evening.
11:47:27 Again -- and that's fine -- I have a conflict that
11:47:29 evening.
11:47:32 Here again, now, we come in at last minute and make
11:47:35 changes without looking at calendars.
11:47:37 Pretty much what I try to do is make sure I don't have
11:47:39 any conflicts for anything before I schedule what I
11:47:41 need to do.
11:47:42 So I have a conflict.
11:47:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We'll respect your conflict.
11:47:49 What can we do?
11:47:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The person speaking has the floor now.
11:47:59 Anyway, we set the workshops several weeks ago.
11:48:02 And based on that several weeks ago, my calendar is
11:48:06 set.
11:48:06 Then we come back today at the last minute trying to

11:48:10 make that change, I guess, now.
11:48:12 And I respect everybody wants to be here.
11:48:14 But more importantly, people that's been elected to be
11:48:17 here, when we set a date, have people here, and the
11:48:23 community will have an opportunity to address the
11:48:25 board.
11:48:26 Always do.
11:48:26 And I'm for that.
11:48:27 I want to say.
11:48:30 We vote to have the CRA meetings on Tuesday.
11:48:37 Tuesday morning.
11:48:41 That's a conflict. The clerk's office made us aware
11:48:44 of that.
11:48:45 The historic preservation meets on that Tuesday.
11:48:49 >>> On the second Tuesday of each month at 9:00.
11:48:56 It would have to be rescheduled due to notices already
11:48:58 sent out for meetings through the end of the year.
11:49:00 But those are cablecasted out by cable TV.
11:49:04 And they meet from 9 to 12 on the second Tuesday.
11:49:09 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I know Ms. Saul-Sena made a motion for
11:49:12 them to move --
11:49:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Or for us.

11:49:15 We could move.
11:49:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The date I suggested was the 3rd
11:49:21 or 4th and that was a conflict to everybody, I
11:49:24 thought, to discuss that.
11:49:25 But you had a conflict for the 3rd.
11:49:32 >>MARY MULHERN: That's the first Tuesday of the month.
11:49:36 >> I think we have meeting.
11:49:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: My suggestion was the fourth Tuesday.
11:49:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What about the 4th?
11:49:46 Madam Chairman?
11:49:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'm just bringing to your attention
11:49:52 the issue from the clerk's office.
11:49:55 And that is the scheduling of the CRA meetings.
11:49:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Scott.
11:50:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Mrs. Saul-Sena.
11:50:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
11:50:02 I think your suggestion is excellent to address the
11:50:05 conflict question.
11:50:07 What about the 4th Thursday -- Tuesday, rather?
11:50:10 >>THE CLERK: I haven't checked the calendar.
11:50:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: If it's clear why don't we do it
11:50:19 the 4th Thursday and you can come back?

11:50:21 >>GWEN MILLER: We have to check with everybody about
11:50:23 using the chambers.
11:50:24 So we can't make a motion until the clerk --
11:50:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I know, I'm saying I bring that
11:50:28 back this evening.
11:50:29 THE CLERK: I have checked it for the third Tuesday.
11:50:31 It's clear in the afternoon on the third Tuesday but
11:50:33 not in the morning.
11:50:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'd love to make a decision this
11:50:38 evening so we can get this on our calendar. If the
11:50:41 clerk could bring back the third Tuesday afternoon or
11:50:44 the fourth Tuesday morning and see what's available to
11:50:46 us.
11:50:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: You get with the clerk.
11:50:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Reverend Scott is going to get with the
11:51:01 clerk and find out what dates are available.
11:51:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, there's one other thing.
11:51:08 Ms. Coyle is present to discuss this.
11:51:11 There is a concern with scheduling for the wet zoning
11:51:13 issue because there's a meeting scheduled immediately
11:51:16 previous to that with T.H.A.N.
11:51:18 And I think you are going to request a continuance?

11:51:22 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
11:51:23 Actually, Ms. Kert was sending through a memo
11:51:26 requesting a continuance on the chapter 3 discussion
11:51:28 but it wouldn't make it till the agenda next week.
11:51:31 We have an additional meeting set with T.H.A.N. zoning
11:51:34 committee on the 30th of May, and we also set a
11:51:37 meeting, looking to set a meeting, a public meeting,
11:51:39 at the Mascotte room on the June 11, 12 or 13, trying
11:51:44 to find a date that works so we can invite everyone to
11:51:47 come, the development community, that people that do
11:51:49 wet zoning as well.
11:51:51 We are hoping to continue our discussion from May
11:51:52 31st to June 21st at 1:30.
11:51:55 That would give us enough time to come back with you
11:51:57 with all the public input that we received.
11:52:00 It didn't make it through for this week.
11:52:03 It was coming through for next week.
11:52:05 Then I saw the discussion that was taking place moving
11:52:08 it to the evening.
11:52:08 I didn't want that to take place if we were going to
11:52:11 request an additional continuance.
11:52:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Reverend Scott, I think it's

11:52:17 absolutely critical that you are part of the hearing
11:52:19 master discussion.
11:52:20 So what I request of all members is to bring your
11:52:23 calendars in to see folks availability.
11:52:25 But would you be available at four in the afternoon?
11:52:30 If could you give us some parameters about your
11:52:32 schedule, that would be helpful because I certainly
11:52:34 don't want to schedule this at 5:00 if you are not
11:52:36 available.
11:52:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: My part would be from 6:00 to the
11:52:42 evening.
11:52:46 Anytime up to 6:00.
11:52:49 >> If woo F we said 6:00?
11:52:52 Surely you would be done by five and --
11:52:56 >> What about presenters?
11:52:57 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The hearing master process we will
11:53:02 not be presenting, that will be legal staff.
11:53:04 Mine is a separate issue, the wet zoning discussion,
11:53:07 which we were hoping to move to June 21st because
11:53:10 it is separate.
11:53:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: He's available another evening.
11:53:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We could do it a different evening.

11:53:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Come back tonight, tell us what
11:53:23 evening.
11:53:23 I think it was council's vote earlier to switch it to
11:53:26 an evening.
11:53:27 We'll be totally flexible.
11:53:28 Pick whatever evening you want to hear it.
11:53:31 >>GWEN MILLER: We are going to table this until this
11:53:34 afternoon.
11:53:36 >>JULIA COLE: I have notified some folks.
11:53:38 But if you need me to renotify them that's fine.
11:53:40 I will not be here this evening.
11:53:42 So I will have to renotify folks.
11:53:43 >>GWEN MILLER: We'll let you know.
11:53:45 >>JULIA COLE: On Monday.
11:53:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Mulhern?
11:53:50 Mr. Caetano?
11:53:51 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like to present a motion
11:53:53 to direct legal to create an ordinance to amend
11:53:57 ordinance 206-104 section 1-B restriction of water
11:54:01 use, to amend to read 8 hours per day.
11:54:06 >> Pardon?
11:54:10 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Decorative waterfalls cannot be

11:54:13 run in the city.
11:54:14 That's that thing you had, an office building.
11:54:17 And I do have two of them in the front.
11:54:19 And my tenant is insisting that I run it.
11:54:22 And a constituent came to me this week and got a $150
11:54:27 fine because he was running his waterfall.
11:54:29 It was adopted last night.
11:54:31 And the reason why, Hernando county runs 8 hours a
11:54:34 day.
11:54:35 Hillsborough County runs 8 hours a day.
11:54:37 Pinellas County 8 hours.
11:54:38 Temple Terrace 8 hours.
11:54:40 No restrictions in Bradenton, Clearwater, Dade city,
11:54:43 or Sarasota.
11:54:44 But if you have reclaimed water, you could do it.
11:54:47 But not everybody has reclaimed water.
11:54:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Recycling.
11:54:52 The creating water that's recycled within the same
11:54:56 fountain.
11:54:57 Is yours?
11:54:59 >>> They recycle themselves but I called a fellow by
11:55:01 the name of Barry in the water department.

11:55:03 He says unless you have fish in there.
11:55:05 So if somebody buys a goldfish, sticks in the there,
11:55:08 they could avoid the ordinance.
11:55:10 But that is ridiculous.
11:55:13 >> What time?
11:55:15 >>> Eight hours a day.
11:55:16 >> You have to cut it out?
11:55:17 >>> Right.
11:55:18 >> You are trying to change that?
11:55:19 >>> Amend that so that the City of Tampa, anybody who
11:55:21 runs a decorative fountain can run it for a minimum of
11:55:24 eight hours a day -- or maximum.
11:55:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Madam Chairman, rather than
11:55:29 directing legal to change it, could we ask the
11:55:31 administration to provide us a report on their
11:55:34 recommendation on this?
11:55:35 >>GWEN MILLER: A written report?
11:55:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Usually before we change something,
11:55:46 we need to gather a little information first.
11:55:48 I mean, I'm not against it or anything.
11:55:50 I just want to know.
11:55:53 >>GWEN MILLER: A written report.

11:55:55 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: We'll make that the motion.
11:55:57 A written report from the administration to amend 104
11:56:02 section 1-B.
11:56:05 >>: Second.
11:56:07 (Motion carried).
11:56:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Shelby?
11:56:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: There was a vote.
11:56:12 You finished the vote.
11:56:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And I had my hand up to speak.
11:56:15 I'm going to vote for the motion just for discussion
11:56:17 purposes and see if we can get the report.
11:56:19 I think we need to be really, really cautious to be
11:56:22 easing up on any of these water issues during a time
11:56:25 of drought when we are about to head into crisis.
11:56:28 So just for discussion purposes and for the matter of
11:56:33 Brad Baird, our water gay to report, and I am going to
11:56:37 suggest he actually meet with you to talk about the
11:56:39 options.
11:56:40 I'm fine with that.
11:56:41 But I am going to be very, very hesitant to go any
11:56:43 further with that especially right now during the
11:56:45 drought.

11:56:48 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I just want add clarification from
11:56:50 the maker of the motion.
11:56:51 Did you request a specific time that you want the
11:56:53 report by in your motion?
11:56:55 How long?
11:56:57 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Can we have an answer in two
11:56:58 weeks?
11:57:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If a written report is acceptable.
11:57:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Anything else, Mr. Caetano?
11:57:06 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: No.
11:57:06 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to present a commendation
11:57:08 to the Tampa Bay building and visitors bureau.
11:57:12 >>THE CLERK: You need to vote on the motion.
11:57:13 >>GWEN MILLER: We voted on it.
11:57:16 Want to vote again?
11:57:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: My vote was sort of confusing.
11:57:20 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion say Aye.
11:57:22 Opposed, Nay.
11:57:23 (Motion carried).
11:57:23 Make a motion for the convention Tampa visitors
11:57:29 bureau, tourism.
11:57:31 Motion and second.

11:57:32 (Motion carried)
11:57:34 I would like to give a commendation to Dr. Aaron Smith
11:57:37 who is retiring from the University of South Florida,
11:57:39 has been there for many years.
11:57:40 And I will present it to myself at a reception.
11:57:44 Can I get a second?
11:57:45 >> Second.
11:57:45 (Motion carried).
11:57:46 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to give a commendation to
11:57:50 the utility accounting department, May 24th.
11:58:04 Helped a citizen who was trying to rescue her sister
11:58:06 from a burning house.
11:58:08 All in favor of that motion say Aye.
11:58:09 Opposed, Nay.
11:58:10 (Motion carried).
11:58:11 Clerk, do you have anything?
11:58:12 >>THE CLERK: Just to receive and file.
11:58:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
11:58:15 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
11:58:16 (Motion carried).
11:58:17 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I know you're talking a lot
11:58:22 today about scheduling meetings.

11:58:24 But I want to add one for you to consider.
11:58:27 And maybe I'll bring it back.
11:58:29 I'll give you more information in a written form and
11:58:31 ask you to check your calendars.
11:58:32 I had the opportunity to meet this Tuesday with Harry
11:58:42 Coe and Michelle Ogilvy from the Planning Commission
11:58:43 with reference to the exercise they wish to have
11:58:47 council participate in involving laptops and a
11:58:51 learning discussion about density and the issues about
11:58:54 where you place density in the future.
11:58:58 Basically, you can encompass that with the consultant
11:59:00 that will be coming in for it with an overview of the
11:59:03 comprehensive plan.
11:59:05 So they would be able to give you an update there.
11:59:08 He suspects the whole thing could be done in 90
11:59:11 minutes.
11:59:12 Council, historically, when the Planning Commission
11:59:15 has been set aside, a period of time, on a Thursday
11:59:18 afternoon, it hasn't been very successful because the
11:59:26 council has continued, and with the consultant coming
11:59:29 in.
11:59:29 I was wondering based on the success of council's

11:59:32 attempt at a Tuesday meeting, a separate day with the
11:59:36 CRA, perhaps council might want to consider a separate
11:59:39 day for this, perhaps a Tuesday.
11:59:42 And I can send you the information, and perhaps when
11:59:47 council would be able to do that so I can inform the
11:59:50 staff and the Planning Commission so they can make
11:59:51 this presentation.
11:59:52 As you know, council has said on numerous occasions
11:59:54 the update of the comprehensive plan is a very
11:59:58 significant policy discussion over which the council
12:00:02 plays a major role in directing the future of the
12:00:05 city, and the growth in the city.
12:00:07 So I would urge you when I send you this information
12:00:10 to look at your calendars and give the Planning
12:00:12 Commission staff the opportunity to give you an update
12:00:17 on the comprehensive plan and to participate in this
12:00:20 exercise.
12:00:26 >> Thank you.
12:00:27 Any questions?
12:00:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I will bring to your attention the
12:00:31 dates that I have, and I only have one date for the
12:00:34 evening, that's May 29th, a Tuesday.

12:00:41 That's for the workshop on the zoning hearing master.
12:00:47 May 29th, a Tuesday.
12:00:53 5:00.
12:00:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Is that okay with Mrs. Coyle?
12:01:02 >>CATHERINE COYLE: That's fine.
12:01:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Tuesday the 29th.
12:01:05 >>THE CLERK: We'll need to check to make sure the
12:01:08 council chambers aren't used.
12:01:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Bring it back this afternoon.
12:01:13 Anything else to come before council?
12:01:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'd like to request that the clerk
12:01:17 bring her calendar in here so we don't have this back
12:01:20 and forth stuff.
12:01:24 >>THE CLERK: Council calendar.
12:01:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The calendar for this room.
12:01:28 >>GWEN MILLER: That's not her calendar, Mrs.
12:01:30 Saul-Sena.
12:01:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: There must be a master calendar.
12:01:36 Then someone bring in the master calendar so that we
12:01:39 can look and see and say, yes, Tuesday the 29th is
12:01:42 a good evening.
12:01:45 >> We will get that for you.

12:01:48 >>GWEN MILLER: We go to our audience portion.
12:01:50 (City Council recessed)
12:01:59