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Tampa City Council
Thursday, June 14, 2007
9:00 a.m. Session

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09:08:41 [Sounding gavel]
09:08:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Tampa City Council is called to order.
09:08:43 The chair will yield to Mr. John Dingfelder.
09:08:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
09:08:49 If you want to come forward.
09:08:57 My intern is going to lead us in the invocation
09:09:01 followed by the pledge of allegiance.
09:09:03 >> Ian Corral: I would like to thank the City Council
09:09:04 for having me back here again.

09:09:07 Today we are all here as members of the council and
09:09:10 members of the audience because we believe we can make
09:09:12 a difference in our community.
09:09:14 I would ask you all to join me in a moment of silence
09:09:17 and reflect on the things you want to change here in
09:09:19 the city or anywhere.
09:09:22 Look inside yourselves for the strength to be the
09:09:24 change you want to see in the world.
09:09:35 Amen.
09:09:37 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
09:09:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Ian.
09:09:55 Good luck in your school.
09:09:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:09:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
09:10:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
09:10:04 >>MARY MULHEARN: Here.
09:10:04 >>JOSEPH CAETANO: Here.
09:10:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Here. At this time we have a
09:10:05 presentation for commendation by Mr. John Dingfelder.
09:10:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: As your representative on the
09:10:30 Hillsborough River Interlocal Board the last couple of
09:10:34 years, it's my pleasure and honor to introduce the

09:10:42 chairman of our technical advisory of our committee
09:10:45 and long-time advocate for the Hillsborough River.
09:10:48 I think it's always important to remind ourselves of
09:10:50 the importance of our natural ecology and especially
09:10:54 of the Hillsborough River.
09:10:55 So we have this commendation that we are going to give
09:10:58 the technical advisory committee because there's a
09:11:01 bunch of hard working volunteers that do nothing else,
09:11:07 sometimes do nothing else but focus on the river and
09:11:09 the health of the river.
09:11:10 With that I'll present this commendation to Rob on
09:11:14 behalf of the technical advisory count.
09:11:16 In recognition of the Hillsborough River's historical
09:11:18 significance and for its role in the development of
09:11:20 the region as an American river, in recognition of the
09:11:23 importance of maintaining the Hillsborough River's
09:11:25 viability as an ecological resource as a habitat for
09:11:29 wide variety of plant and wildlife, and in the
09:11:34 interest of perpetuating the river's ability to
09:11:37 contribute to the well-being and water supply and
09:11:40 recreational resource in acknowledgment of the shared
09:11:43 importance of all of our rivers, therefore it is

09:11:45 hereby revolved that June is recognized by Tampa City
09:11:47 Council and the residents of the City of Tampa as
09:11:50 American rivers month, and that the Hillsborough River
09:11:52 and all rivers be recognized for their valuable
09:11:54 contributions made to our respective communities
09:11:58 throughout history.
09:11:59 I don't know where we put this up.
09:12:01 But congratulations.
09:12:02 And thank you for your hard work.
09:12:03 If you have a few words.
09:12:05 >>> On the Hillsborough River?
09:12:08 I want to thank very much -- there's been a lot said
09:12:13 about the river but I just want top say a few things.
09:12:16 It ties our whole community together.
09:12:18 Whether it's Temple Terrace, the City of Tampa, and
09:12:23 Hillsborough County, it expands beyond that.
09:12:27 And I very much thank Mr. Dingfelder for his advocacy,
09:12:33 his support, and I would also like to recognize Ms.
09:12:36 Saul-Sena and her support for protecting our water
09:12:41 supply, recreation, our aesthetics and ecological
09:12:48 position and giving us a sense of community, because
09:12:50 that's what makes Tampa, Temple Terrace, and the City

09:12:53 of Tampa, and the whole community that runs through
09:13:00 it.
09:13:00 I want to thank you very much for your advocacy and
09:13:03 your support.
09:13:03 Thank you.
09:13:04 [ Applause ]
09:13:11 >>GWEN MILLER: At this time we go to approval of the
09:13:12 agenda.
09:13:13 Are there any items you would like to pull?
09:13:15 Ms. Saul-Sena?
09:13:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
09:13:17 The item is dealing with the money that we are
09:13:20 giving -- item number 15.
09:13:23 I just wanted to have -- actually 14 and 15.
09:13:28 I would like to have additional explanation on it.
09:13:32 I think it's a terrific thing.
09:13:34 I just would like to have a little more conversation.
09:13:36 I believe Steve Daignault is coming in here and he
09:13:39 should be able to speak to that.
09:13:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Any other items?
09:13:41 >>GWEN MILLER: There's another one.
09:13:44 Give me one second.

09:13:50 Items 17 and 18 I'm going to pull them and discuss
09:13:55 them when I get to it in committee.
09:13:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Any other items?
09:14:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 17 and 18.
09:14:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: May I inquire of the council member?
09:14:03 Do you wish to have a staff member present to discuss
09:14:05 it?
09:14:11 Because my understanding is they monitor this portion
09:14:14 of the agenda to find out whether or not council
09:14:16 wishes to have staff present at the time of the
09:14:18 discussion.
09:14:19 So if it's not necessary, then I suspect they won't.
09:14:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll leave to the their discretion.
09:14:25 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Are you going to hold that for the
09:14:28 end of the staff reports or at that time when it comes
09:14:30 up under your committee reports?
09:14:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll just bring it up under my
09:14:35 committee.
09:14:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thank you.
09:14:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Any other items?
09:14:39 We need a motion to approve the agenda.
09:14:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So moved.

09:14:42 >> Second.
09:14:43 (Motion carried).
09:14:44 >> We now go to our unfinished business item number 2.
09:14:51 Transportation division.
09:14:52 >>ROY LAMOTTE: Transportation manager.
09:15:03 I'm here this morning based on an item that was
09:15:07 received at public hearing back in March and you asked
09:15:09 the transportation division to come in and talk to you
09:15:12 a little bit about it and appear relative to the speed
09:15:17 and traffic on Waverly Court.
09:15:24 I sent a communication to you.
09:15:25 For those of you who may not be familiar with Waverly
09:15:28 Court, I'll put it on the Elmo.
09:15:35 This runs between Waverly Avenue and Euclid Avenue
09:15:38 just west of Bayshore.
09:15:40 This particular street became an item of discussion
09:15:44 because there was a request for a partial vacating.
09:15:49 Since that time the transportation division met with
09:15:51 Land Development Coordination division regarding a
09:15:55 petition on file to vacate, close, discontinue,
09:15:57 abandon a portion of Waverly Court, and discuss the
09:16:00 item.

09:16:01 Waverly Court is a small street.
09:16:03 It's like 480 feet long and it has a very small width,
09:16:08 18 feet and a right-of-way of 20 feet.
09:16:12 In response to your motion we studied the street, and
09:16:16 installed no parking signs on Waverly Court as you
09:16:19 requested on both ends.
09:16:20 Traffic count was performed, and it was taken from a
09:16:23 Wednesday in April to a Tuesday.
09:16:27 The results of that count found the percentile at 23
09:16:33 miles per hour and had approximately 100 vehicles per
09:16:35 day utilizing the street.
09:16:37 So I think we can conclude a very small amount of
09:16:41 traffic on a very residential street.
09:16:43 Can be residentially generated and the peak hour
09:16:48 resides at 12 to 14 vehicles per hour.
09:16:52 Again this demonstrates there's no cut-through traffic
09:16:55 on it.
09:16:55 There were some concerns about the -- by the council
09:16:58 relative though Todd Pressman that.
09:16:59 Again in an effort to maintain the residential quality
09:17:01 of the streets, we assured you by putting the signs in
09:17:04 place.

09:17:06 The transportation division still objects to the
09:17:07 partial vacate.
09:17:11 Emergency response vehicle time will be impacted,
09:17:14 pedestrian response limited.
09:17:16 We have some diversion of these 100 vehicles a day and
09:17:18 would not provide an adequate turn around for city
09:17:21 services and pickup for emergency vehicles.
09:17:24 That concludes our report.
09:17:26 If there's any discussion I'll be glad to entertain
09:17:28 any questions you may have.
09:17:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
09:17:32 It so happens that yesterday I drove Waverly Court,
09:17:39 and you're right.
09:17:39 It's about 480 feet.
09:17:41 It's -- I was in a very small vehicle, Volkswagen.
09:17:48 Maneuvered my way.
09:17:50 There were no trucks parked.
09:17:51 I did see your signs.
09:17:52 I concur the speed limit is adequate to meet all the
09:17:55 gid lines according to the traffic division.
09:17:58 I disagree, however, that the 100 car per day is a
09:18:03 normal day on a residential street, that that may be

09:18:07 five or six houses, one of them which faces Bayshore.
09:18:09 At the northernmost end of Waverly is the complex.
09:18:17 If I remember the complex address, however, is not on
09:18:21 Bayshore.
09:18:22 Complex address 3507, if I recall, is on the east-west
09:18:27 corridor.
09:18:27 Am I correct?
09:18:30 >>ROY LAMOTTE: You are correct.
09:18:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Because I'm going by memory.
09:18:33 Sometimes I get a heat stroke because I don't have
09:18:36 enough hair.
09:18:37 So what I am going through in saying is that I agree
09:18:42 and disagree respectfully, because those residents
09:18:51 with five or six houses on a block where another would
09:18:55 have 100.
09:18:56 I also disagree in the part where it said that it
09:18:58 would be a difficult pass for those individuals living
09:19:04 in the complex to use a street that is not a traffic
09:19:10 oriented with a light to cross Bayshore.
09:19:14 I did it four times yesterday just to test my own
09:19:17 skills.
09:19:18 And I came out perfect.

09:19:20 You have just got to be careful.
09:19:22 You have just got to watch.
09:19:23 And if that was true, that every other street that
09:19:28 fits Bayshore at the eastern most part of that street,
09:19:32 whatever that street is, they also don't have a
09:19:34 traffic light.
09:19:35 And they cross.
09:19:38 So there's something that I totally agree with and
09:19:41 there's something that respectfully I disagree with
09:19:44 the report, because if that's the case we would have a
09:19:46 traffic signal on every street on the Bayshore
09:19:49 Boulevard, and we don't, and we should not have.
09:19:53 Thank you.
09:19:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Any other questions?
09:19:55 Thank you, Mr. LaMotte.
09:19:57 We appreciate you coming in.
09:19:57 >>ROY LAMOTTE: Thank you for having us.
09:20:01 Good morning.
09:20:01 >>GWEN MILLER: You, too. Item number 3.
09:20:07 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: City clerk.
09:20:12 Council, I sent you a memo regarding appointments to
09:20:16 boards and committees.

09:20:19 The deadline was June 7th at 5 p.m.
09:20:23 We did receive some applications, and I forwarded
09:20:28 those applications to you.
09:20:30 I also wanted to mention that we advertised for the
09:20:34 vacancies on the City of Tampa's web site.
09:20:39 The public meeting calendar on the city's web site,
09:20:42 the bulletin board located on the first floor of old
09:20:45 City Hall, under the announcements on our draft final
09:20:50 and action agenda.
09:20:52 We advertised with the neighborhood association, the
09:20:57 community bulletin board.
09:20:58 And I also wanted to mention that we sent all of the
09:21:01 applicants that applied for the interim position
09:21:05 application.
09:21:07 Before you we forwarded the application.
09:21:18 And I don't know if you want to take them one by one
09:21:21 starting with the architectural review commission.
09:21:26 We have two vacancies.
09:21:29 We have a vacancy for the resident of the northwest
09:21:33 quadrant, due to the resignation of Sara Romeo.
09:21:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you want to take them one at a time?
09:21:52 >>> We'll do it however you want to do it.

09:21:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Shirley, thank you.
09:21:55 Do you have a map, or can you generally describe what
09:21:58 the north-west quadrant is?
09:22:00 I know it's not my district, but what does that
09:22:04 encompass?
09:22:06 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: I'm sorry, I don't have that
09:22:08 map with me.
09:22:09 I believe we forwarded some time ago but I don't have
09:22:11 it.
09:22:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I believe somebody from legal here
09:22:15 can speak to the redrafting that we have done with the
09:22:18 ARC, which I believe is in the process of being
09:22:21 adopted.
09:22:21 And I thought we did away with the requirement that
09:22:25 the applicants be in geographical quadrants because
09:22:30 that's really germane, if we don't have to pick
09:22:32 somebody in geographical quadrant then that changes
09:22:35 the field of applicants.
09:22:36 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: And I know that will be
09:22:38 presented, that proposed ordinance will be presented
09:22:40 to council July 19th.
09:22:42 So that is a consideration.

09:22:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think that we should wait until
09:22:47 we don't have to have the geographical constraints
09:22:51 because that's going to change forever in a month.
09:22:53 And by the time we appoint this person, you know, they
09:22:56 will be done away with.
09:22:59 Julia, are you familiar with the ARC requirements
09:23:01 that's coming back July 19?
09:23:03 Doesn't the new ARC rule map require different people
09:23:06 from different geographic requirements?
09:23:09 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
09:23:10 I'm not sure.
09:23:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Could somebody from legal come down
09:23:12 and --
09:23:14 >>JULIA COLE: I can have that clarified.
09:23:18 >>GWEN MILLER: We'll go to the next one.
09:23:28 >>MARY MULHERN: I had a question, Shirley.
09:23:31 There are two vacancies for that?
09:23:37 There are two vacancies apparently for the for the --
09:23:40 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: For the ARC but as things
09:23:42 change there may be only one.
09:23:46 >>GWEN MILLER: They have to be geographical.
09:23:48 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.

09:23:49 Under the ordinance which had been approved on the
09:23:51 first reading these quadrants will be removed and they
09:23:53 will just have the list of professionals in the
09:23:59 ordinance.
09:23:59 I don't have it before me but the quadrants will no
09:24:03 longer be one of the requirements.
09:24:08 We have changed it to, I believe, people who reside in
09:24:10 the historic district.
09:24:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I don't think this that's correct.
09:24:16 I think what I would like to do is put the
09:24:18 architectural review decision off for two weeks, and
09:24:22 legal to get back to us with a written clarification
09:24:24 on what the new ordinance would say.
09:24:26 And maybe readvertise for that with the understanding
09:24:30 the new rules, and advertise for rules that haven't
09:24:34 been adopted yet.
09:24:35 >>REBECCA KERT: I think you need to wait until it goes
09:24:38 for second reading scheduled in the middle of July.
09:24:41 July 19.
09:24:43 .
09:24:44 >> Maybe immediately after that we can let the public
09:24:47 know, we can let council know more clearly what the

09:24:50 requirements are for application.
09:24:53 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm saying this because I think it
09:24:56 might save us some time this morning, if we could look
09:24:59 at -- before we go through each of these committees
09:25:03 separately, I think the ARC, we are going to have the
09:25:07 same questions with the HPC.
09:25:11 So maybe we should move to have that put off.
09:25:15 And then also I would like to ask that we extend the
09:25:20 deadline for the Nuisance Abatement Board, because it
09:25:24 doesn't look like we have -- we might have one
09:25:27 applicant for that, I think, Shirley.
09:25:29 And I think we need to recruit some more people.
09:25:32 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Yes.
09:25:34 And we also received another application past the
09:25:37 deadline.
09:25:38 So if you want to extend that deadline, that's fine.
09:25:40 >>GWEN MILLER: You know, council, you might have
09:25:43 someone you might want to be on that board and you can
09:25:46 advise them that they can fill out the application.
09:25:48 That would help us, too, if you know someone that
09:25:52 wants to be on the Nuisance Abatement Board.
09:26:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Whether it's one men or seven

09:26:04 council members.
09:26:08 >>GWEN MILLER: How many do we have for the nuisance
09:26:10 abatement?
09:26:12 Do you know, offhand?
09:26:13 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: It's on the memo that I sent
09:26:15 you.
09:26:16 We received seven applications.
09:26:22 But on my end, the particular districts.
09:26:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Does it have to be in the districts?
09:26:28 We have the seven then.
09:26:30 For the board and seven members?
09:26:32 So we have seven applicants.
09:26:34 And we have seven --
09:26:36 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: And we received an additional
09:26:37 one today.
09:26:38 Well, as of June 12th.
09:26:40 So you have 8.
09:26:42 But that was past the deadline.
09:26:46 >>GWEN MILLER: So we have enough to be on the Nuisance
09:26:47 Abatement Board then.
09:26:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just a point of order.
09:26:51 Shirley, on the memo that's dated June 9th that

09:26:56 you gave us, we see Mr. Stebinger's name, and Susan
09:27:05 law, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.
09:27:10 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Right.
09:27:11 Five.
09:27:12 Plus one, six.
09:27:12 >>GWEN MILLER: So we need to appoint one more.
09:27:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Want to defer this for a week or
09:27:17 two?
09:27:18 >>GWEN MILLER: If you know someone --
09:27:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: A personal recommendation to you
09:27:25 and each of us gets to make one.
09:27:27 >>GWEN MILLER: And if we have more than the seven, do
09:27:31 we have to do those then?
09:27:32 We have five.
09:27:33 If each of you want to appoint somebody then that's
09:27:35 going to be more than seven.
09:27:37 We have five already so we don't need two.
09:27:40 We have six.
09:27:41 One came in late.
09:27:42 So we just need one person.
09:27:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What I'm suggesting is that we look
09:27:46 at this application before us but we also note people

09:27:50 who have been active in the community.
09:27:52 What I suggest is that each council member write you a
09:27:55 memo recommending one person and that's how we develop
09:27:58 the Nuisance Abatement Board.
09:28:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
09:28:04 Mrs. Mulhern.
09:28:08 >>MARY MULHERN: If that's how it's been done in the
09:28:11 past, then we don't have to change any rules.
09:28:14 Okay.
09:28:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Saul-Sena, you say each council
09:28:18 member?
09:28:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
09:28:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Then the five we have.
09:28:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No.
09:28:24 I'm saying we can use this as a base of information.
09:28:26 We can.
09:28:28 If there happens to be somebody who applied here who I
09:28:30 know -- but you don't have to use this group.
09:28:34 I'm just saying rather than a group process each
09:28:37 council member gets to select one of the members.
09:28:41 >>GWEN MILLER: If you give me seven names, if you have
09:28:48 five people that applied to be on this board, give

09:28:52 them an opportunity.
09:28:53 But if you give me seven names, you can't just throw
09:28:57 the five out, six rather.
09:29:01 Reverend Scott?
09:29:02 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, the process, generally what
09:29:08 happens -- let me just explain what generally happens.
09:29:17 The board of county commission votes, and just vote on
09:29:24 all.
09:29:25 If you only have two vacancies and you got eight
09:29:27 people, you take a vote.
09:29:29 And just move on.
09:29:31 And sometimes instead of going back and trying to find
09:29:38 people, that's fine.
09:29:39 But if you only have six people apply, and if you want
09:29:45 to nominate -- actually, if you apply you can do that
09:29:48 and then just vote on those and move on.
09:29:51 We could be here awhile.
09:29:53 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: You also have some individuals
09:29:57 whose term expires.
09:29:58 So they may want to be reappointed.
09:30:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I want to refresh your
09:30:08 recollection by referring you to section 14-63 of the

09:30:11 code of ordinances.
09:30:12 Under membership, it says the board shall consist
09:30:14 of -- Nuisance Abatement Board, shall consist of seven
09:30:21 city council-appointed members serving without pay.
09:30:25 That's what it says with regard to that.
09:30:26 But it says the terms -- this is important -- the
09:30:29 terms of the initial members of the board shall be
09:30:32 staggered with four members appointed to a term of two
09:30:34 years, and three members appointed for a term of one
09:30:36 year.
09:30:37 Thereafter, all terms will be for two years.
09:30:42 I guess that was the initial appointment, I suspect
09:30:45 that you could make these terminations and the board
09:30:50 for all intents and purposes disbanded.
09:30:52 Or you can say they are going to be two years rather
09:30:54 than trying to figure out who is going to get how long
09:30:57 a length of term because the board legally as
09:31:02 constituted.
09:31:02 So I want to bring to your attention the code itself
09:31:04 is silent to the manner which you shall make the
09:31:08 appointment, that it shall consist of seven City
09:31:10 Council appointed members serving without pay.

09:31:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I guess that was part of my
09:31:17 confusion.
09:31:18 Because looking at each council member appoints an
09:31:20 individual to serve on the board from their respective
09:31:23 district.
09:31:23 >> And I believe that's how it was done historically,
09:31:26 if I understand it.
09:31:28 >> So why don't we at least try to do that over the
09:31:31 next two weeks?
09:31:32 I have already got my person lined up.
09:31:35 And if everybody kind of lines up one person, at least
09:31:38 we'll be ahead of the game.
09:31:39 And then we can just come back and perhaps ratify
09:31:42 those seven people.
09:31:43 That would seem to be the easiest.
09:31:45 >>MARY MULHERN: My question is what about the people
09:31:47 that applied through the process?
09:31:49 I want to make sure that --
09:31:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If we get consideration from any of
09:31:57 the council members.
09:32:00 >>GWEN MILLER: So if you have one -- you don't need to
09:32:05 appoint one then because you say you have one on the

09:32:07 list already, Ms. Saul-Sena.
09:32:09 You don't have to give them another name, right?
09:32:15 Right.
09:32:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Question.
09:32:19 Today we have six applicants that applied for Nuisance
09:32:21 Abatement Board, right?
09:32:24 Six applicants.
09:32:25 Okay.
09:32:25 Then you only need two more.
09:32:29 >> One.
09:32:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Need one more.
09:32:32 Then Ms. Saul-Sena says she has someone she wants to
09:32:36 appoint.
09:32:37 >>GWEN MILLER: She has one of the six.
09:32:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Then my suggestion would be those who
09:32:45 applied before the deadline --
09:32:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: My person is already on the list.
09:32:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Each member give one person.
09:33:01 Those council members who don't have somebody on the
09:33:02 list already, they can appoint one.
09:33:04 So in two weeks, you go through the list, you don't
09:33:08 need to appoint somebody.

09:33:09 If you don't have someone on that list then you give a
09:33:11 name.
09:33:12 Is that okay?
09:33:14 >> Okay.
09:33:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Put that in a motion.
09:33:18 >> Question.
09:33:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Each council member does not
09:33:24 necessarily appoint, each council member brings forth
09:33:27 a name.
09:33:27 It is the council that appoints.
09:33:28 Council I should point out the importance of the
09:33:31 Nuisance Abatement Board has been coming before
09:33:33 council very clearly in the past several weeks as to
09:33:37 how important a purpose it serves, and the role of the
09:33:42 people who the council would appoint would have
09:33:44 significant impact on the community.
09:33:48 So council obviously knowing that they would have the
09:33:50 powers that the Nuisance Abatement Board provides
09:33:52 should look to appointing people who they know would
09:33:56 be able to fulfill those responsibilities.
09:33:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
09:33:59 We have a motion and second on the floor.

09:34:00 (Motion carried).
09:34:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The motion is to postpone for two
09:34:06 weeks?
09:34:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Two weeks.
09:34:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is council on vacation in two weeks?
09:34:11 I believe it is.
09:34:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Well, one week then.
09:34:14 It doesn't take long to do that.
09:34:16 Next week.
09:34:17 Rescind that motion to one week.
09:34:20 >> Amend the motion as the maker of the motion to one
09:34:22 week.
09:34:22 >> Second.
09:34:23 (Motion carried).
09:34:23 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Ms. Foxx-Knowles, I want to make one
09:34:30 more comment.
09:34:30 Council, I would ask individually, I have a request
09:34:35 within the administration, because they would be maybe
09:34:37 willing to be brought forth, that council take action
09:34:39 and finalize it next week if humanly possible.
09:34:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
09:34:44 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: The last committee would be

09:34:46 the enter provides zone development agency.
09:34:50 What would you like to do there?
09:34:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Do we have enough applicants already?
09:34:54 >>> We have three applicants.
09:34:55 >> How many vacancies?
09:34:56 >>> Two vacancies.
09:34:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The VRB?
09:35:03 >>> No, the enterprise zone.
09:35:04 >>GWEN MILLER: We have three and two vacancies.
09:35:06 We need to vote on those.
09:35:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let's do it.
09:35:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you want to do it today?
09:35:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Sure.
09:35:12 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: There is a vacancy due to the
09:35:15 resignation of Mr. Sam Kinsey, and we have -- and
09:35:21 another one whose term is expiring, Darleen Guzman.
09:35:29 Her term expired May 25th.
09:35:32 The applicants includes Chatel Patel, Lynette judge,
09:35:41 and Decon, if someone can pronounce that last name,
09:35:46 Kalajan.
09:35:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Question, Mr. Dingfelder?
09:35:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Kinsey and Ms. Guzman are very

09:36:00 active and excellent members of our community.
09:36:03 Do you know if they have been advised of the
09:36:05 expiration of their term, and if they have expressed
09:36:08 any interest?
09:36:09 >>> Well, Mr. Kinsey actually resigned.
09:36:14 >> He resigned.
09:36:14 And Ms. Guzman, do we have any information?
09:36:17 >>> No.
09:36:17 I'm sorry.
09:36:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let's wait a week.
09:36:20 >>GWEN MILLER: If she wants to reapply?
09:36:24 Did she reapply?
09:36:26 >>> No, she didn't.
09:36:27 I don't know if she was aware.
09:36:29 Do you want to postpone this, also?
09:36:31 >>GWEN MILLER: See if she wants to apply.
09:36:34 >> I move we postpone for one week.
09:36:38 >>THE CLERK: We have two meetings before council goes
09:36:41 on vacation.
09:36:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Next week is fine.
09:36:43 Okay.
09:36:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Have we received applications for

09:36:47 that position?
09:36:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
09:36:52 We have applications for the enterprise zone.
09:36:54 We have a motion and second.
09:36:54 (Motion carried).
09:36:55 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: So therefore you are
09:36:58 postponing ARC, historic preservation, and VRB to
09:37:04 after the July 19th proposed ordinance.
09:37:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No, HPC.
09:37:11 Not VRB.
09:37:14 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Do we want to take up the VRB?
09:37:16 >>GWEN MILLER: How many do we have for that?
09:37:19 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: We have two vacancies.
09:37:25 And four applications.
09:37:26 >>GWEN MILLER: So we need to vote on that next week.
09:37:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Is there an alternate that applied
09:37:32 for one of the vacancies?
09:37:33 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: We have four individuals that
09:37:47 applied for the neighborhood civic representative.
09:37:51 They include Joe CITRO, Seth Nelson, Steve LaBour,
09:37:56 and Randy barren.
09:38:07 I was going to add, for the nurserymen we did receive

09:38:14 an application yesterday for the landscape architect.
09:38:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Variance Review Board?
09:38:30 >> If it came yesterday, was it late?
09:38:33 >>> It was after the deadline.
09:38:34 >> So we can still consider it like next week?
09:38:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I received another application from
09:38:40 Derrick Gerhart, an engineer.
09:38:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But he would be going for the
09:38:49 neighborhood representative.
09:38:51 Not the nurserymen.
09:38:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm sorry, I thought the ones she
09:38:56 just said were the general.
09:38:57 >>GWEN MILLER: No.
09:38:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just a clarification.
09:39:00 We have two open.
09:39:02 The first opening, John wise resigned.
09:39:04 He's the neighborhood civic representative, qualified
09:39:09 people, allegedly qualified people, to apply.
09:39:13 Joe CITRO, Seth Nelson, who is currently an alternate,
09:39:17 Steve LaBour, who is currently an alternate, Randy
09:39:21 baron, who we know, and Doug who Ms. Saul-Sena just
09:39:27 referenced.

09:39:30 On the list.
09:39:31 >>GWEN MILLER: So do you want to wait till next week
09:39:33 to vote?
09:39:34 We need two.
09:39:36 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We have the amount necessary.
09:39:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Are we going to vote on those four,
09:39:42 five?
09:39:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: How do you want to do this?
09:39:46 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: I can go down the list.
09:39:47 All for Joe Citro please raise your hand.
09:39:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No.
09:39:53 I think it would be better for us to have a list of
09:39:55 the five people and you give it out to us.
09:39:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Why don't you bring it back before the
09:39:59 end of the meeting?
09:40:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I move we defer the nurserymen
09:40:08 position.
09:40:08 I move we defer the filling of the nurserymen till
09:40:13 next week since we do have an applicant but it came in
09:40:15 late.
09:40:16 I think defer to next week.
09:40:19 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.

09:40:20 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and a second to next
09:40:24 week vote on --
09:40:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: On the nurserymen.
09:40:28 >>GWEN MILLER: But vote on the community.
09:40:30 Okay, bring it back to us and we'll vote at the end of
09:40:32 our meeting.
09:40:33 Thank you.
09:40:36 >>MARY MULHERN: How is that list coming back to us, do
09:40:38 you know, Shirley?
09:40:41 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: In the form of --
09:40:45 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Clerk, was there a vote on that to
09:40:46 bring it back next week?
09:40:48 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
09:40:51 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
09:40:52 (Motion carried).
09:40:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe the last time that council
09:40:57 had taken action on was the issue with regard to the
09:40:59 HPC and VRB whether you want to continue that till
09:41:03 after July 19th.
09:41:08 Those are both being changed.
09:41:10 The composition of those boards.
09:41:11 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to make that motion then.

09:41:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My motion would be that the week
09:41:18 after the July 19th meeting which would be the
09:41:20 26th.
09:41:23 And on the 19th, after we vote on the ARC and VRB
09:41:29 that the legal department give us the parameters who
09:41:31 have we are will go for and also you have the ability
09:41:33 to readvertise.
09:41:38 >>GWEN MILLER: If she is going to readvertise we need
09:41:42 some more time.
09:41:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Are they having trouble getting a
09:41:46 quorum?
09:41:47 >> I believe so.
09:41:48 >> Okay, so put it off two weeks.
09:41:52 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: We will advertise, have one
09:41:55 week --
09:41:56 >>GWEN MILLER: August 9th.
09:41:57 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: We will still have one week to
09:42:01 advertise.
09:42:03 >>MARY MULHERN: I want to make it clear, we are
09:42:05 talking about the ARC and the HPC that we are delaying
09:42:09 till July 19th.
09:42:14 >> August 9th.

09:42:17 >> August 9th.
09:42:17 The VRB we are going to do today.
09:42:22 ARC and HPC.
09:42:25 >>GWEN MILLER: August 9th.
09:42:26 We have a motion and second.
09:42:27 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
09:42:29 Opposed, Nay.
09:42:30 (Motion carried).
09:42:31 Thank you.
09:42:34 Item 4.
09:42:35 Anyone representing Mr. Smith?
09:42:44 >>> Jan McLean, office of city attorney, here at the
09:42:46 request of Mr. Smith to give you a brief report on
09:42:49 your question, included in item number 4, as to
09:42:53 whether there is an opportunity for the council and
09:42:55 administration to receive notification on a project of
09:42:58 significance, as being reviewed by the EPC.
09:43:02 I spoke with a gentleman at the EPC, and he was
09:43:07 familiar with this particular project used as an
09:43:13 example but as an overall process, there is an
09:43:16 opportunity for the City Council to be notified of
09:43:20 actions that are being taken on proposed applications.

09:43:26 On this particular example I have already done some
09:43:29 calling around and asked for the -- myself as a city
09:43:33 representative to be notified on any decisions, on any
09:43:36 notices of workshops, whether they determine the
09:43:41 project of heightened concern, any of those and those
09:43:44 will be sent to the council of EPC so that we will be
09:43:47 put on that list.
09:43:48 That would be our opportunity to review that
09:43:51 information.
09:43:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
09:43:53 I think that's really important.
09:43:54 I think that actually we should ask if we can be not
09:43:58 only with ethanol plants but with anything that's
09:44:00 going to affect the environment, where the City of
09:44:03 Tampa would like to have a voice, you or somebody
09:44:07 whoever the appropriate person needs to be to
09:44:09 automatically contact, speaking of which, did you make
09:44:11 any -- find anything out about Cypress Creek?
09:44:18 >>> I don't have anything to report to you today, no.
09:44:21 >> Are you giving a report back on that?
09:44:22 I believe we made a motion.
09:44:24 >>> Yes, I believe I was instructed to do so.

09:44:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The other aspect of this, which as
09:44:32 you well know is the fact that this ethanol plant will
09:44:35 be a heavy user of water.
09:44:38 And since it's in the city service area, it would be a
09:44:41 heavy user of city water, which is another reason why
09:44:44 even though it's outside the city limits, it still has
09:44:48 a fairly significant impact on the city.
09:44:51 I think it's a half million gallons a day or more just
09:44:55 when it opens and it has the ability to increase.
09:44:57 So just for clarification, an EPC going to now put you
09:45:05 on their list for all these types of reviews?
09:45:08 How is that going to work?
09:45:10 >>> I didn't request for a broad, general application.
09:45:13 I asked for this particular project.
09:45:15 I can call back and see how we could word that type of
09:45:19 request.
09:45:20 It might be a little too overbroad.
09:45:22 I might just need to be on a list to receive notice of
09:45:24 applications, and then ask on particular applications
09:45:28 to be put on a notice.
09:45:29 That would probably be the process, and the most
09:45:32 effective way to do it.

09:45:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think it would be good to be a
09:45:36 little broader because obviously it's not just -- this
09:45:39 is the first ethanol plant in the state or something
09:45:41 like that.
09:45:44 But other types of large facilities.
09:45:47 Even the crematoriums, you know, which EPC is
09:45:51 reviewing in our community.
09:45:58 >> I can pursue this.
09:46:00 >> Thank you.
09:46:00 Item number 5.
09:46:05 >> Good morning, Madam Chair and council members.
09:46:07 I'm James Buckner, director of technology and
09:46:10 innovation for the city.
09:46:12 I would like to give you a short briefing on wireless
09:46:14 communications technology commonly referred to as
09:46:17 Wi-Fi.
09:46:17 If I could have the PowerPoint, please.
09:46:22 Back in February, council asked that we look at other
09:46:26 cities that are implementing Wi-Fi technology,
09:46:29 particularly the model that's being implemented is in
09:46:32 San Francisco and can Tampa implement a similar type
09:46:37 program here locally.

09:46:38 We contacted and talked with ten cities across the
09:46:42 country.
09:46:44 You see three of the larger cities, San Francisco,
09:46:46 Chicago, Philadelphia.
09:46:47 We also talked to our neighborhood, St. Petersburg is
09:46:51 in the process of implementation as well.
09:46:53 Bottom line, for the ten cities, the implimentation
09:46:59 cost between 3 and $18 million there.
09:47:01 But there is a most popular cost model as you see on
09:47:05 the chart.
09:47:06 That cost model includes some minimal investment by
09:47:11 the cities but most of the investment is actually born
09:47:13 by the vendors who would actually install and operate
09:47:16 the equipment.
09:47:17 And revenues would then be split appropriately.
09:47:20 A couple of the smaller cities actually are trying to
09:47:23 do their own thing.
09:47:24 But that's on a very small scale level.
09:47:27 The larger cities have partnered with large vendors.
09:47:33 The way the Wi-Fi works, basically, you designate
09:47:38 grids in the city, areas of coverage, and each square
09:47:41 mile is set up roughly about a $60,000 investment in

09:47:45 each square mile.
09:47:46 Dozens of access points.
09:47:48 These are basically transponders that run power poles,
09:47:52 light poles, what not, aggregation powers to collect
09:47:55 all the signal.
09:47:56 And you arrange agreements with the vendor to provide
09:48:00 that power pole space and the power that operates the
09:48:04 devices.
09:48:06 The San Francisco model, they went ahead with the
09:48:09 request for proposal and identified two vendors in
09:48:12 partnership, EarthLink and Google, and they are to
09:48:15 provide the services, and the city is to provide
09:48:18 access and right-of-way to them.
09:48:23 EarthLink actually bill it is network and Google
09:48:28 provides a free tier to the Internet, in other words
09:48:31 free access for people had that have wireless
09:48:34 capability in their computers.
09:48:35 It's very limited in their agreement, very low speeds
09:48:37 and limited access.
09:48:41 The potential revenues, though, in their predicted
09:48:44 model, would indicate that about $600,000 per year
09:48:48 would come back to the city for a right-of-way and

09:48:53 access which includes power and $40,000 for pole
09:48:56 usage, $300,000 a year would be projected share in
09:49:00 gross revenues.
09:49:01 Again, this system is not yet implemented in
09:49:06 San Francisco, not they are still in negotiation with
09:49:08 the vendors.
09:49:09 Therefore, they are not certain that these revenues
09:49:11 will actually be realize.
09:49:13 What we have learned from some of the cities that have
09:49:15 implemented is that the revenue predictions may have
09:49:18 been a little bit overstated in their early estimates.
09:49:22 St. Petersburg model is very similar.
09:49:25 An RFP was awarded again to EarthLink, $300,000 back
09:49:30 to the city for right-of-way and assets.
09:49:32 Again, we don't know because they haven't implemented
09:49:34 there yet either.
09:49:35 They are still in negotiations.
09:49:36 The plan there is a $21.95 charge to the citizens to
09:49:42 get access.
09:49:44 It's a fairly low speed as you can see, one megabit
09:49:49 per second, whereas your home would be up to 10 to 15
09:49:52 times faster than that.

09:49:54 What they proposed is a restricted area access.
09:49:56 If you don't pay for free you could get access to
09:50:00 certain sites but not to the whole Internet for web
09:50:04 access.
09:50:07 In Tampa the logistical issues, we have about 112
09:50:11 square miles of heavily populated area.
09:50:14 That would probably put us somewhere in the 6 to $8
09:50:17 million implementation price range.
09:50:19 We have found some interested providers, although it's
09:50:22 hard to tell how interested until you actually put an
09:50:25 RFP on the streets.
09:50:27 There might be potential to get some partial coverage
09:50:30 at no cost.
09:50:31 There might be some requirement for some investment on
09:50:33 the city's part.
09:50:35 Based on all the other cities that are going through
09:50:37 this process, we would anticipate something in the
09:50:39 neighborhood of a year and a half to implement once a
09:50:44 contract was actually put in place and an agreement
09:50:47 was reached.
09:50:48 Then there would be technology refreshment for these
09:50:50 devices about every four years.

09:50:53 What we are also seeing, too, in our studies is Wi-Fi,
09:50:57 the technology that's in place now, or going in place
09:50:59 in a lot of places, is becoming a bit dated, and a new
09:51:04 technology, WiMAX is coming to the front, basically a
09:51:12 smaller coverage.
09:51:15 That's probably not ready for prime time yet but will
09:51:17 be close in the coming months or years.
09:51:20 So basically, at this point in time, what we've seen
09:51:25 from the other cities, we think it's prudent at this
09:51:28 point, with our budget issues that may be coming down
09:51:32 later on this month, to continue to monitor the other
09:51:36 city's progress, continue to monitor this technology
09:51:39 change, and investigate potentially interested vendors
09:51:43 who might be willing to support and make sure that we
09:51:48 don't end up with any monetary losses.
09:51:51 But we will continue to look forward and determine
09:51:54 which way to go in the future.
09:51:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
09:51:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
09:52:01 I think there might have been a little confusion as we
09:52:04 sent you off on this task.
09:52:07 And perhaps it's my fault since I made the motion.

09:52:12 When I envisioned this, especially in the beginning, I
09:52:15 was thinking more in terms of downtown, Channelside,
09:52:21 maybe Westshore, the Westshore district, that sort of
09:52:25 thing, as a smaller kind of compact focused area to
09:52:29 start with.
09:52:32 You had a slide up a minute ago that showed the total
09:52:34 square miles of the city, 112.
09:52:38 And that wasn't the intent.
09:52:42 At least not on a starting basis.
09:52:45 I think if we focus -- we talked about getting new
09:52:50 residents downtown, younger people into Channelside,
09:52:53 there's more residential in Westshore getting young
09:52:56 people, you want to get the high tech thing going.
09:52:59 And I don't know much about it, obviously.
09:53:01 But I think if WiMAX is a newer technology that's
09:53:07 great.
09:53:08 I would love to see us, you know, try something on a
09:53:12 prototypical basis in the smaller areas as opposed to
09:53:14 kind of kicking back and just waiting to see what
09:53:17 St. Pete does.
09:53:18 And I think that --
09:53:22 >>> Downtown there are also some attempt at that.

09:53:25 The downtown partnership two or three years ago
09:53:27 actually partnered with a vendor, and there are what
09:53:32 we would call hot spots.
09:53:33 It's not a blanket-type coverage of the whole downtown
09:53:36 area.
09:53:37 But I believe there are 26 hot spots around.
09:53:42 Some of those are operational.
09:53:43 Some of them may have fallen into disrepair but I
09:53:46 believe possibly the downtown partnership might be
09:53:48 able to revitalize that, and bring those hot spots
09:53:51 back up.
09:53:52 And that might be the prototype that you are really
09:53:55 looking for.
09:53:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Is that something you could work on?
09:54:01 Work with the partnership on some of the issues in the
09:54:03 Channelside and the Westshore?
09:54:06 Ron Rotella's group also seemed to be viable.
09:54:09 If we could just start building this network piece by
09:54:12 piece.
09:54:15 And really at no expense -- to me that's the key, is,
09:54:19 you know, it sounds to me like the folks who are
09:54:23 running these businesses, and maybe there's one behind

09:54:26 you who is involved, you know, really want to get
09:54:30 involved in this with no expense to the city.
09:54:33 >>> We can certainly look at. That we'll talk with
09:54:35 the downtown partnership and see how that would be
09:54:37 revitalized with the hot spots.
09:54:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Caetano?
09:54:42 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Does this include a sales tax on
09:54:45 the product?
09:54:48 >>> I don't know the answer to that.
09:54:50 I'm sure the negotiations that we would enter into, we
09:54:54 would have to determine what the issues are.
09:54:55 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: The $21 a month that a client
09:55:00 would pay evidently knowing the city, they are going
09:55:02 to charge sales tax on top of that so that's
09:55:05 additional income.
09:55:07 >>> That could be.
09:55:08 I'm not sure of that.
09:55:09 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I'm pretty certain about it.
09:55:12 And this is also going to bring up the fact that we
09:55:14 have other vendors here, Bright House could probably
09:55:17 get into it, and a number of other people.
09:55:20 And I don't want to see us get into a commitment,

09:55:23 because there's going to be a war, a price war with
09:55:26 something like this.
09:55:27 I know I have it in three of my businesses and I have
09:55:30 it in my home and in my coffee shop.
09:55:32 It's very useful.
09:55:33 >>> Certainly that's the reason that the other cities
09:55:36 who approached this have been very careful with their
09:55:40 procurement processes.
09:55:41 They have written very formal requests for proposals.
09:55:43 They have gone through evaluations of all the vendors'
09:55:48 submissions and carefully chosen a winning submission,
09:55:51 and then entered into negotiations.
09:55:53 What we found is that takes quite awhile.
09:55:56 In the ten cities he would talked to, that process has
09:55:58 taken well over two years to go through.
09:56:02 Because there is quite a bit of competition in that
09:56:04 area.
09:56:05 >> Any estimate of subscribers that you think we would
09:56:07 have, if we had 300,000 people in the city?
09:56:11 >>> Well, certainly not that many.
09:56:15 That would be part of what the negotiation would
09:56:19 include with the vendor once you picked a vendor, they

09:56:23 would come in and do their survey estimate of how
09:56:26 broad the user population really would be.
09:56:29 So we haven't formally tried to do that yet.
09:56:33 >> You think you come up with an answer on that, and
09:56:36 how many households do you think would subscribe to
09:56:39 this service?
09:56:40 >>> We could probably get an estimate on that.
09:56:43 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Thank you.
09:56:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think we might be talking about
09:56:48 apples and kumquats.
09:56:50 What I thought we were approaching is the idea of
09:56:53 creating for the benefit of the public, to make our
09:56:57 area more attractive be hot spots, where one doesn't
09:57:01 need to plug into anything.
09:57:03 Just open your computer and you have got Internet
09:57:06 access.
09:57:07 And consider areas most heavily used like downtown and
09:57:11 Westshore.
09:57:12 That's where I thought we would function.
09:57:14 And it doesn't sound like what you brought back to us.
09:57:18 >>> Well, it certainly could be started that way.
09:57:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: what I would suggest is you get

09:57:23 with the Westshore alliance, the downtown partnership
09:57:25 and the city.
09:57:26 I don't see this as necessarily needing to generate
09:57:29 revenue for the city.
09:57:30 I see it providing a service for our citizens, and a
09:57:34 way to make ourselves more competitive in the market.
09:57:37 And a level of process that is less convoluted and
09:57:42 long-term and more immediately gratifying.
09:57:44 >>> Yes, ma'am.
09:57:45 We were specifically asked to look at the
09:57:46 San Francisco model, and they did go big there, of
09:57:49 course.
09:57:50 >> Well, they are more dense.
09:57:51 >>MARY MULHERN: I will try not to repeat what they
09:57:57 said but I agree we should look at an area.
09:58:00 And I think -- I see generating revenue is great.
09:58:04 It's not costing us anything, that's great, and those
09:58:08 should be basic when we are looking at something like
09:58:10 this.
09:58:10 But I think most importantly if we don't get way ahead
09:58:13 of the curve on this, there's in a point in even
09:58:16 looking at.

09:58:18 We are looking at San Francisco.
09:58:19 We are will go at St. Pete, who don't even have it in
09:58:22 place.
09:58:22 And as you said there's already this new technology.
09:58:26 All of us probably sitting here in the audience have
09:58:29 Internet connection, high speed Internet.
09:58:32 So it doesn't make any sense for us to provide some
09:58:36 low band width access downtown.
09:58:39 But if we got ahead of the curve and people coming
09:58:42 here for conventions, people looking at moving into
09:58:45 Channelside, which I think needs to be Channelside and
09:58:48 Ybor probably included in those hot spots, it's got to
09:58:54 be fast, and it's got to be ahead of the curve, for us
09:58:57 to start using this as another incentive, another
09:59:01 economic development tool to bring people to live
09:59:03 here, to bring businesses to locate here, and for
09:59:07 tourism, too.
09:59:08 I just want to make sure as you are looking at it, you
09:59:10 do what you mentioned, and really look ahead of the
09:59:13 curve so that what we are doing is something that
09:59:17 isn't behind what other cities have already done.
09:59:21 And starting new, maybe we have a better opportunity

09:59:25 to do that since we are just starting now, and we can
09:59:28 be ahead of the curve on this.
09:59:31 >>> We will contact the other organizations and see
09:59:33 what might be out there, and what we can leverage.
09:59:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I want to suggest also you may want to
09:59:37 talk with Mr. Lou Miller, aviation authority.
09:59:40 I know at the airport they have the access already.
09:59:44 And many airports already have that kind of access.
09:59:48 You may want to talk to someone over there, talk with
09:59:50 him and get some information and input on it.
09:59:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can I make a motion?
09:59:58 I'd like to do two things.
10:00:00 One, I would like to move that we ask Mr. Buckner to
10:00:06 come back and revisit this in 90 days and update us on
10:00:10 what you have learned, and your conversations with the
10:00:12 various districts that we have talked about, including
10:00:16 Ybor City is a good idea.
10:00:18 Thank you, Mary.
10:00:20 Number one.
10:00:20 And I will just start with that as a motion.
10:00:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:00:25 And Tom Keating who is head of the Ybor chamber will

10:00:27 be a great person to talk to, very in tune it with.
10:00:31 The idea to sit in a park with your laptop.
10:00:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's the motion.
10:00:37 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:00:38 (Motion carried).
10:00:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I would like to ask Mr. Guy.
10:00:51 >>GWEN MILLER: That's waiving the rules.
10:00:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't think it's waiving the
10:00:54 rules.
10:00:54 I want to ask a question.
10:00:58 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you wish to open the floor I
10:01:00 believe it would require --
10:01:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No, asking a question.
10:01:05 Not asking anybody else a question.
10:01:10 That's their prerogative for having --
10:01:12 >>GWEN MILLER: We would have to waive.
10:01:14 Mr. Shelby is going to read it.
10:01:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to waive the rules.
10:01:27 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Let me double check.
10:01:28 That would be the easiest way to do it.
10:01:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: As part of this discussion, which
10:01:34 is the discussion which is not complete yet, I want to

10:01:39 be enlightened by the information that a citizen made
10:01:45 who happens to be sitting in the front row there.
10:01:47 And it's not necessarily the audience coming forward,
10:01:50 which would require waiver of the rules.
10:01:52 It's to me needing additional information on this
10:01:55 particular topic, and whether or not I ask staff, Mr.
10:01:58 Guy, or anybody else, that's a council member's
10:02:02 prerogative to get more information on the subject.
10:02:04 >>GWEN MILLER: I understand what you are saying, Mr.
10:02:07 Dingfelder.
10:02:11 And we have had this before, where you want to have
10:02:15 public come up and speak before and wed to waive the
10:02:17 rules.ding
10:02:21 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I want to refer council to the rules.
10:02:24 It does state that either workshops, specifically
10:02:27 under workshops, D-3, any member of council may ask
10:02:32 questions of any member present during the workshop.
10:02:34 That is regard with specifically for workshops.
10:02:37 It does not make a reference to it on the general
10:02:40 policies or quasi-judicial hearings, or conduct of
10:02:44 business.
10:02:45 I should also point out under general policies, or

10:02:52 actually under parliamentary -- policies, which is
10:02:56 rule 4-K, the chair shall died all questions or
10:02:59 procedure on order and the decision shall stand unless
10:03:01 reversed by majority vote of the entire council, and
10:03:05 finally, council, I should point out that you do have
10:03:07 a section on the agenda for any item on the agenda for
10:03:11 the public comment that is not set for public hearing.
10:03:16 At this point in time it is my recommendation it would
10:03:19 require either a waiver of the rules, or to make a
10:03:24 motion to overrule the chair's decision.
10:03:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, my question or statement, you
10:03:33 have a challenge of the board for the or the council,
10:03:37 and the chair has a right to rule.
10:03:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: She did, and I'm respecting that.
10:03:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We just waste time on all this stuff.
10:03:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The reason we waive the five
10:03:51 minutes is because every time we do a simple request
10:03:53 to waive the rules, which used to pass pretty easily,
10:03:56 you vote no and then you kill the motion to waive the
10:04:00 rules.
10:04:00 We are in the middle of a discussion with Mr. Buckner
10:04:03 about this issue.

10:04:04 But under these rules, if we don't waive the rules,
10:04:06 then Mr. Guy is going to have to wait probably another
10:04:11 hour.
10:04:11 >>GWEN MILLER: It won't be that long.
10:04:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It often is.
10:04:17 Let me finish.
10:04:21 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: You ruled.
10:04:22 Why don't we move on, please.
10:04:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Mr. Buckner.
10:04:28 We are going to go back to number 4.
10:04:37 >>> Jan McLean, office of city attorney.
10:04:39 Thank you for the opportunity to return.
10:04:41 I just wanted to request a clarification.
10:04:44 I know that I had been requested to ask for
10:04:48 information from EPC over a broad, general class of
10:04:55 potential permitting issues.
10:04:57 I was wondering if I could, in order to send a letter
10:05:01 on behalf of the council, if I could get a motion with
10:05:04 a clarification, the types of projects that you are
10:05:07 looking for information on, i.e., if you wanted me to
10:05:11 request applications that are within the city that are
10:05:15 submitted to EPC, and the second part of my

10:05:19 clarification question is, once I receive this
10:05:21 information, what the direction of council would be
10:05:24 for me to do with this information.
10:05:26 Do you want me to pass it on to you?
10:05:30 I left too quickly without asking those questions.
10:05:34 >>GWEN MILLER: She wants to clarify.
10:05:37 Ms. Saul-Sena?
10:05:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Why don't you ask for everything
10:05:40 coming before you?
10:05:41 Do you have an assistant who can sort of -- what we
10:05:44 needed for someone to screen this.
10:05:47 Probably the majority of issues would not be -- would
10:05:51 not trigger any kind of conversation but perhaps for
10:05:53 the sake of thoroughness you should just give us a
10:05:58 listing of all of them, provide that in a memo form to
10:06:02 council, then if we are interested in something we can
10:06:04 bring it up at a council meeting.
10:06:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can I make a suggestion?
10:06:09 Since you indicated you are not sure how voluminous
10:06:12 this list is, and how small or large, why don't you
10:06:16 have that conversation with EPC and get back with us
10:06:19 and give us some choices, give us some suggestions or

10:06:22 recommendations from legal on how you can best do
10:06:25 this.
10:06:26 >>> That would probably be the best.
10:06:28 Because I did not encompass those types of questions
10:06:31 when I spoke with the EPC representative.
10:06:35 I talked about the one example.
10:06:36 So I would be glad to return to you to describe to you
10:06:40 how much it would entail, and coming back, when would
10:06:47 you like me to return?
10:06:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Why don't you come back when you
10:06:50 get the information, just walk-on.
10:06:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
10:06:56 >>THE CLERK: Motion on behalf of council.
10:07:03 >> So moved?
10:07:03 >> Second.
10:07:04 (Motion carried).
10:07:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Shelby?
10:07:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, to be extremely brief, you
10:07:12 had a workshop last week on the green buildings issue.
10:07:15 You have received a memo dated June 11th from
10:07:19 Cynthia Miller.
10:07:20 I am prepared to receive council's direction as to how

10:07:24 you wish to proceed from this point forward.
10:07:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
10:07:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Sometimes we ask motions for
10:07:34 written memos.
10:07:35 Sometimes we make motions asking for reports back.
10:07:38 I don't know if this motion had a direction one way or
10:07:41 the other.
10:07:43 Written report versus verbal.
10:07:44 But I see Mr. Snelling and Mr. Daignault are both in
10:07:47 the house.
10:07:52 So I prefer to hear Mr. Snelling come up and give us a
10:07:56 brief idea of where administration is going on this
10:07:59 issue.
10:08:01 And then we'll get Mr. Daignault's input in regard to
10:08:04 the construction aspect of this.
10:08:09 >>THOM SNELLING: Growth management.
10:08:18 The short answer is, oh, excuse me.
10:08:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What you perceive the question to
10:08:25 be.
10:08:25 Let's start with that.
10:08:26 >>> To find out how Sarasota approaches incentives is
10:08:29 specifically related to shortening their review time.

10:08:36 >> Sometimes administration takes us too literally.
10:08:39 I think the question was really broad.
10:08:42 Sarasota is doing this.
10:08:43 Why don't we do something similar?
10:08:44 That was really --
10:08:47 >>> And that's kind of how we are.
10:08:48 That's how we were intending to proceed in the future,
10:08:50 is pretty much exactly that way, councilman.
10:08:53 When we looked at Sarasota, just to answer the literal
10:08:57 question, they do it in three to four days, which is
10:09:00 pretty good.
10:09:01 And then when I talked to John Barrios at the
10:09:04 construction service center who works with us, he
10:09:07 identified that our average regular time is seven to
10:09:09 eight days for permitted use.
10:09:11 And that's on first review for both.
10:09:13 Once you get through the review process the first
10:09:16 time, it's all depending literally on the applicant.
10:09:19 How do they turn around the comments.
10:09:21 Then they really control their own questions tiny so
10:09:24 to speak.
10:09:25 But the difference between the seven or eight day

10:09:27 review time and a three or four day review time for
10:09:30 three days just about really -- like this is what we
10:09:38 are doing.
10:09:40 Plus we kind of think that -- when John and I were
10:09:43 talking he has just gone through a fairly large
10:09:46 reorganization at the Construction Services Center.
10:09:48 And he feels that time frame could come down lower
10:09:55 because when we had a full staff and all of his
10:09:59 inspectors were full they were turning in permits
10:10:01 within a five or six day time period.
10:10:04 So it didn't really provide an incentive base for us.
10:10:07 Or that's how we felt.
10:10:09 What we really are thinking of trying to do is come up
10:10:11 with a broader menu of incentives to look at things.
10:10:17 The notion of fees, given what the state is going to
10:10:21 do, that pretty much, we are not even looking at that
10:10:23 simply because we are not even sure what kind of
10:10:25 effect that's going to have just on standard operating
10:10:28 procedures.
10:10:29 One of the things that we have talked about, looking
10:10:31 at some of the things, is exploring, and council had
10:10:35 asked to look at transfer development rights in

10:10:39 relationship to be able to have somebody of historic
10:10:42 property sell the development rights so to speak to
10:10:44 somebody else who wants to build taller, bigger, more
10:10:47 intense, whatever.
10:10:48 If you expand that a little bit, if somebody is going
10:10:52 to come in and build a silver LEED building that they
10:10:57 would have the ability to sell some of those or
10:11:00 densities or if somebody else wanted to do that, you
10:11:07 know.
10:11:10 If somebody else wanted to do that, could you apply
10:11:12 the same type of thought process you are applying to
10:11:14 the historic preservation.
10:11:17 You know, expanding bonus density, bonus hates for the
10:11:22 recertification of buildings.
10:11:24 Expanding the motion of having green buildings, which
10:11:29 is what we do for one of the affordable housing
10:11:31 programs, that you have already certified green
10:11:35 construction plans approved at the construction
10:11:38 service center.
10:11:39 So if a builder wanted to build that particular model,
10:11:41 co-immediately just pull those plans, submit that and
10:11:44 that would increase his -- reduce the time that he's

10:11:49 under review, and also to start some training programs
10:11:52 for our inspectors and some of our plans reviewers so
10:11:57 they are able to recognize, and in our conversation
10:11:59 was Sarasota, they said sometimes, you know, they have
10:12:02 to have a staff that is trained to recognize that
10:12:05 there's a green, or a looked type of technology being
10:12:11 employed -- LEED technology.
10:12:16 They don't recognize it.
10:12:17 So we feel that training and education of our staff is
10:12:20 a huge -- a huge, very important thing, as well as
10:12:25 just public education.
10:12:27 That's the other thing that Sarasota pointed out when
10:12:29 we had a conversation with them, is that a lot of the
10:12:31 buildings don't even know that they have this out
10:12:34 there, and they are able to take advantage of it.
10:12:36 So we have started this dialogue with the American
10:12:39 architect association.
10:12:40 We meet with them on a monthly basis, the Tampa Bay
10:12:44 builders association I think on a quarterly basis.
10:12:47 But they are interested in doing that.
10:12:48 And frankly they believe pretty strongly that in the
10:12:51 building industry, going back to Sarasota, there's an

10:12:53 area down there.
10:12:59 >> Lakewood Ranch.
10:13:01 >>> Thank you.
10:13:03 Lakewood Ranch, where they are finding people don't
10:13:05 want to buy a house unless it is a greenhouse.
10:13:07 In fact if I bought a house now I wouldn't buy one
10:13:09 that is not.
10:13:10 So they feel the market is really starting to drive,
10:13:12 to kick that speed up.
10:13:14 Another thing as you already know the city is, by July
10:13:17 of 2008, everything else that we build has to be green
10:13:23 sustainable as part of the state mandate.
10:13:25 And the way we are continuing is we have already met
10:13:27 with -- as part of the environmental round table,
10:13:36 Debra Pope with the green river coalition and other
10:13:39 people that sit around the table there are people that
10:13:43 do training programs for city staff.
10:13:45 It's for anybody actually who wanted help.
10:13:48 And Debra works with it.
10:13:54 So just to try to increase our contact with the people
10:13:57 out there doing it.
10:13:58 When we talked to the gentleman last week he gave us a

10:14:01 PowerPoint presentation plus some ordinances and I
10:14:03 know he's also agreed that anything we need to do to
10:14:07 broaden our incentive base, and even they said that.
10:14:12 One of the most important things that they discovered
10:14:14 in other communities was, you know, really having
10:14:17 value and bonus densities and height densities and
10:14:20 being able to build more houses on the lots that can
10:14:25 do that.
10:14:25 So they felt very strongly.
10:14:27 They reported to you last week that density was a very
10:14:31 key I shall through.
10:14:33 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a number of things to say.
10:14:37 But my overall feeling about this is the same as the
10:14:41 last issue, is I would like to see the City of Tampa
10:14:44 get ahead of the curve on some of this.
10:14:46 Because we keep looking at what Sarasota is doing, and
10:14:49 what other cities are doing, and then waiting and
10:14:52 analyzing whether that will work.
10:14:54 Why don't we look at getting ahead of the curve and
10:14:56 doing some things first.
10:15:00 >> Being proactive.
10:15:03 >> And I think looking at both transfers of

10:15:06 development rights and bonus density, you have to be
10:15:09 very careful of that when you're talking about green
10:15:11 building, because of the idea obviously is to lower
10:15:15 the impact on the environment.
10:15:17 So the more people you are putting in there, you know,
10:15:20 we don't need to have a trade-off, where we don't get
10:15:25 any overall good from that.
10:15:27 So I think TDRs make a lot of sense with historic
10:15:32 preservation and we need to look at that.
10:15:34 But as far as green building, I don't know if that's
10:15:36 the best way to go.
10:15:37 As far as the fees go, I know don't want to hear fees
10:15:43 being increased this year, and for us it's going to be
10:15:47 difficult, too.
10:15:47 But, you know, if you have an incentive, you get a
10:15:52 lower running rate, the other one.
10:15:54 I think that's what we need to look at.
10:15:56 You get much lower fees if you are doing green
10:15:59 building.
10:15:59 And maybe you get a higher fee if you are not.
10:16:02 That's how the incentives are going to work.
10:16:05 You know, we can't wait for the market.

10:16:06 If we wait for the market, that means we are not doing
10:16:09 anything to encourage it or influence it.
10:16:13 And we have to think about the overall savings that we
10:16:16 have, and not just look at it as short term, you know,
10:16:20 can we afford this?
10:16:22 Is it going to benefit us?
10:16:23 Of course it's going to benefit us.
10:16:24 And we heard all about that from the green building
10:16:28 workshop we had last week, the energy savings are
10:16:32 incredible.
10:16:32 So I think -- I just want to see Tampa think bigger,
10:16:38 and this is a great opportunity for us to do it
10:16:42 because it is not in the end going to cost us money.
10:16:45 It's going to save us money.
10:16:48 The other thing we didn't talk about which is another
10:16:51 big incentive is tax credits; which a lot of people
10:16:56 are doing.
10:16:57 It's a huge incentive.
10:16:58 If you give tax credits for building green, it's
10:17:01 another big incentive that we can do as a
10:17:05 municipality.
10:17:07 That's what I want to talk about more.

10:17:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We have to talk about it.
10:17:17 Oh, okay.
10:17:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We need to stop meeting.
10:17:20 We need to get the people trained. The public is
10:17:22 getting educated.
10:17:25 In every monthly magazine there are articles in the
10:17:27 paper, there are articles every day.
10:17:28 We need to implement the staff training.
10:17:31 And we need to make the review process a really
10:17:36 pleasant one.
10:17:37 And that's something that council can't tell you to
10:17:40 do.
10:17:40 We can only ask the administration to do it.
10:17:43 But I can tell you that I personally, if it costs
10:17:46 money to train the staff, I would support the staff
10:17:50 training.
10:17:51 I think that the green building council --
10:17:53 >>> There's some opportunities.
10:17:55 >> Because they want to build green buildings.
10:17:58 They want our staff to be knowledgeable to review
10:18:00 their plans.
10:18:01 So that's what we need.

10:18:02 So what I would like to do is ask in 30 days you come
10:18:05 back to us with a proposal, with a time frame, on when
10:18:08 the staff training you anticipate will begin.
10:18:11 That's my motion.
10:18:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I want to expand the motion with my
10:18:19 second, if I could.
10:18:22 You're saying 30 days to come back with a time line?
10:18:25 >>> Yes.
10:18:25 >> I would say 30 days to come back with a time line
10:18:29 on the development of incentives.
10:18:38 From development of incentives on the whole package.
10:18:42 Come back in 30 days with a time line on the whole
10:18:44 package.
10:18:46 That I'll be comfortable with. So at least we have an
10:18:50 action plan, and as Ms. Mulhern said we are moving
10:18:53 forward and leading the state instead of following the
10:18:57 state.
10:19:06 >>THOM SNELLING: I am going to be gone for 12 days in
10:19:09 about a week so if I could have 45 days that would be
10:19:11 a little easier because I'm going to be the one that's
10:19:13 working on this.
10:19:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That would be the end of July.

10:19:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Question on the motion?
10:19:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: July 26th.
10:19:23 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: With the situation taking place
10:19:27 in Tallahassee about the budget, why don't we wait
10:19:29 until after the budget?
10:19:31 We are going to create a new department.
10:19:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No.
10:19:35 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: How are we going to staff these
10:19:37 people?
10:19:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The existing staff will just be
10:19:39 trained.
10:19:40 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: That's not the way it's going to
10:19:43 work because undoubtedly they are going to hire new
10:19:45 staff.
10:19:45 They'll tell you that, but that's not what's going to
10:19:48 happen.
10:19:48 Look back at history and see where we spent our money.
10:19:51 I don't believe that.
10:19:52 There's going to be new staff.
10:19:57 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Sitting here very calmly and
10:19:59 listening from the other room, why don't we have
10:20:08 chairperson of the building and zoning to meet with

10:20:10 the administration -- that's what we have chair people
10:20:14 for on this council -- to meet with the administration
10:20:16 to hammer out these things and come back and report to
10:20:19 the council?
10:20:19 We are going to go haphazardly and asking for things
10:20:23 we don't know if they can do it in 30 days, 45 days,
10:20:26 15 days, in two days in, six months.
10:20:28 But yet we are directing something that we don't
10:20:30 know -- I will in a minute, Reverend Scott.
10:20:38 We are wasting -- not time wasted, time that you can't
10:20:42 recover in business.
10:20:44 We are -- if this was Citivest right here, Citivest
10:20:49 would be bankrupt because we can't accomplish
10:20:51 something directly.
10:20:52 We have those chairmen.
10:20:56 Let them work it out with administration, come back
10:20:58 and maybe 30 days is an acceptable amount.
10:21:01 But let that person meet with the administration, set
10:21:04 the goals and objectives and come back and.
10:21:06 >> Reporter: To the public.
10:21:08 We can't do it the way we are going.
10:21:14 When you talk about retreat, the reason I'm against

10:21:18 retreat is the word means go backwards.
10:21:21 We should call it opportunity today, to go forward or
10:21:23 something.
10:21:24 But a retreat to me is go backwards.
10:21:26 And I'm probably far enough behind now.
10:21:29 So that's another reason.
10:21:30 But what I am saying, let's understand, that's why we
10:21:32 have these chairmanships for.
10:21:34 That's what we got elected for.
10:21:36 Let that person be the diligent one to meet and iron
10:21:39 out these things.
10:21:39 So I'll make that as a substitute motion.
10:21:42 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion.
10:21:43 Question on the motion.
10:21:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Caetano, are you willing to do
10:21:48 that?
10:21:48 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Yes, I am willing.
10:21:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The question will be that's the
10:21:56 motion that will have to be voted on.
10:21:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: On the substitute motion, would
10:22:00 that also be on July 26th, for Mr. Caetano to get
10:22:04 back with us and inform us, enlighten us about what

10:22:06 his discussion is?
10:22:07 Because I would like to at least define it by a date.
10:22:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: It would be very hard for the maker
10:22:13 of the motion to direct Mr. Caetano, who is the
10:22:15 chairman of that committee, as to when he's got to
10:22:18 make an appointment with administration.
10:22:20 That may take a day, may take an hour, may take a
10:22:23 week.
10:22:23 I don't know.
10:22:25 It's a good motion, don't get me wrong, Mr.
10:22:27 Dingfelder, what you're asking.
10:22:28 But I would rather say let me leave it for 30 days to
10:22:31 come back and report to this council what the progress
10:22:33 has been from the chairman of the building and zoning
10:22:35 committee, so that we can all be abreast of what's
10:22:39 going on.
10:22:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And maybe within that time frame
10:22:44 that Mr. Caetano meets.
10:22:50 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: The administration is not busy.
10:22:53 I just had my aide call the administration and set up
10:22:55 an appointment.
10:22:56 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a substitute motion.

10:22:58 All in favor of that motion say Aye.
10:23:00 Opposed, Nay.
10:23:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Motion carries.
10:23:03 Now that becomes the main motion.
10:23:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay, Mr. Dingfelder.
10:23:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just a thing to point out here.
10:23:09 Thom, I think you were here.
10:23:12 Did you get the package from the green building
10:23:13 council?
10:23:15 >>> Yes, I got that and the PowerPoint as well.
10:23:18 >> The package includes the list of incentives that
10:23:20 various towns and countries are doing, tax incentive,
10:23:24 density bonus, expedited review, grants, incentives by
10:23:28 requests, others.
10:23:29 There's six pages, and 20 different jurisdictions.
10:23:32 >>THOM SNELLING: Right.
10:23:35 And councilman, if I can, the bonus density, we have
10:23:39 looked at the -- in our opinion there's no real gain
10:23:43 there.
10:23:45 >> The zoning which nobody has talked about.
10:23:47 >>> And I would love to talk about that.
10:23:50 I have some very, I think, innovative ideas on that.

10:23:53 And I would certainly bring that back as part of the
10:23:56 discussion.
10:23:57 A lot of those incentives, councilman, talk about
10:24:00 establishing funds and paying for LEED certification.
10:24:05 You can't talk about money.
10:24:06 You can talk about tax incentives.
10:24:08 But you are going to be looking down the barrel of a
10:24:12 budget in a couple of weeks and you guys know better
10:24:15 than anybody where the money is and where it's gone.
10:24:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think for purposes of this
10:24:19 discussion right now, I don't know why we are
10:24:21 eliminating anything off the table.
10:24:23 Why don't we just leave it as broad and open as
10:24:26 possible, and, yes, this year we might be concerned on
10:24:31 money.
10:24:31 Next year could be a huge boom when Mr. Trump changes
10:24:34 his mind and everything else -- you never know.
10:24:37 >>THOM SNELLING: That's fine.
10:24:38 That's fair.
10:24:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I truly believe that the private
10:24:41 sector is ready to do this.
10:24:43 They just need the city to be able to process it.

10:24:47 That's what I'm looking tarred.
10:24:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Mr. Snelling.
10:24:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Daignault was going to give
10:24:55 us --
10:24:59 >>> Am I coming back?
10:25:00 I'm confused on what the motion is.
10:25:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That is not a substitute motion as
10:25:05 stated by Mr. Miranda.
10:25:07 Working with Mr. Caetano.
10:25:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Withdraw my second on the main
10:25:12 motion.
10:25:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: No, the motion vas voted on to
10:25:16 substitute.
10:25:19 >> It goes away?
10:25:20 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Now you need to vote on the
10:25:22 substitution of the main -- okay.
10:25:24 We can leave it the way it is.
10:25:25 But under Robert's Rules of Order, what happens now is
10:25:27 the substitute, you voted to substitute the motion,
10:25:30 and now you have the motion as substituted on the
10:25:33 floor.
10:25:36 It's an extra step.

10:25:37 That's per Roberts rules.
10:25:39 If you don't wish to do it, that's council's
10:25:41 prerogative.
10:25:41 But the motion is clear.
10:25:42 What happens now is you made a motion to substitute or
10:25:45 amend.
10:25:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
10:25:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Move the substitute motion made by
10:25:52 councilman Miranda, I second it.
10:25:58 We voted on the substitute motion in the past.
10:26:00 So the other motion goes away.
10:26:02 It goes away.
10:26:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Specify it at the retreat.
10:26:10 >>GWEN MILLER: You call the administration.
10:26:18 >>> I'll meet with Mr. Caetano.
10:26:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Daignault.
10:26:25 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Administrator public works utility
10:26:28 services.
10:26:30 The question I think I'm answering is what has the
10:26:34 city been doing or doing with regard to green projects
10:26:36 and green facilities.
10:26:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And will be doing.

10:26:40 >>> And will be doing.
10:26:41 I would like to try to cover all of those things.
10:26:44 In the past number of years the city has actually
10:26:46 replaced the balance lasts and the lights in all our
10:26:50 facilities to more energy efficient balance lasts and
10:26:54 lamps, changed two air cooled condensers, which
10:26:59 removes 50s oops, at least lessens the opportunity
10:27:02 for mold and mildew.
10:27:04 We put in fresh air intake.
10:27:07 We are preparing to put one in the TPD building.
10:27:13 Parks and recs bond that brought on new rec centers to
10:27:17 include the Hunt center facilities like that, we had
10:27:21 standards in there for a cool roof, for natural
10:27:24 lighting, for hands-free faucets, for low water use
10:27:30 toilets.
10:27:31 The standard, again, cool roofs has been carried over
10:27:38 to the convention center.
10:27:39 Our TPD district 3 building, we believe, meets all of
10:27:42 the requirements for a LEED certification.
10:27:46 The New Tampa rec center, again the lighting, the
10:27:50 roofing, the efficiency and the plumbing fixtures are
10:27:52 all included, and that again becomes our standard.

10:27:56 You will realize, and most of you have probably seen
10:27:59 that TMA's new facility, the new museum, is going to
10:28:03 be a green facility.
10:28:05 And I believe I've read that they plan to have a green
10:28:07 roof.
10:28:08 Probably one of the most efficient things that we have
10:28:11 planned on the horizon is building a chiller unit for
10:28:15 the museums that could also provide chilled water to
10:28:19 the library and the Performing Arts Center as they
10:28:22 replace their air conditioning as many as.
10:28:26 That system and process is about 40% more efficient
10:28:29 than stand-alone chiller units and air conditioner
10:28:32 systems.
10:28:32 So those are in the works.
10:28:39 And this is one you probably heard me clarify the most
10:28:41 and this is the reclaimed system.
10:28:43 We need our folks to get on reclaimed.
10:28:47 It is in our plans to do. That but getting folks off
10:28:49 of potable for irrigation and under reclaimed
10:28:51 continues to be an important piece that we need to
10:28:53 pursue in the city.
10:28:54 So, again, those are some of the things that we have

10:28:57 been doing, and are planning to do in the future.
10:29:01 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Daignault, I spoke to Ken
10:29:05 Hagan's aide yesterday, on the remodeling of Bruce B.
10:29:08 Downs.
10:29:08 Can we look into the feasibility of putting a
10:29:12 reclaimed water pipes in the ground, so five years
10:29:15 from now, whenever you get reclaimed water, because we
10:29:18 want it out there, too, Pasco, our neighbor, which I
10:29:21 consider is in the woods, has reclaimed water okay?
10:29:26 We can put these pipes in the ground now rather than
10:29:28 five years from now at a less cost.
10:29:30 Can you get ahold of whoever is constructing that and
10:29:33 work with them?
10:29:34 Because it will probably be a city expense.
10:29:37 As I understand it's our responsibility for sewer and
10:29:39 water on that.
10:29:40 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Yes, sir, it is.
10:29:44 What I would suggest is he would get with them and put
10:29:49 in sleeves. The biggest problem of putting in a road
10:29:53 and putting in a pipe project is you tear up the new
10:29:55 road.
10:29:56 During that construction if we could put sleeves under

10:29:58 the road so we could accomplish crossings, that would
10:30:00 be very valuable in the future when we came back to
10:30:03 put in reclaimed.
10:30:04 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: So you will do that.
10:30:06 >>> We would be glad to talk to them.
10:30:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm very, very pleased to hear the
10:30:11 things that we are doing.
10:30:12 And I think as we move forward, we should explore all
10:30:15 the opportunities, whether it's from putting in --
10:30:20 everything that we can do that will ultimately lessen
10:30:22 our long-term maintenance costs, and it's to the good.
10:30:27 And so do you have a staff member who reviews projects
10:30:33 for sustainable components?
10:30:35 Or when you hire outside architects to do things, do
10:30:38 you require that they do that?
10:30:41 What is our process?
10:30:44 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Well, we don't build a lot of
10:30:45 buildings but we do maintain a lot of buildings.
10:30:49 So sometimes it's easier to do as we retrofit and do
10:30:52 other projects as we do on these existing buildings.
10:30:54 But as Thom pointed out the state is requiring that we
10:30:57 look at LEEDS and green facilities as we move forward

10:31:01 so that's known when we hire a consultant to help us
10:31:04 design the new facility and we certainly include
10:31:07 environmental issues, and cost efficiencies both in
10:31:10 the up-front cost as well as the operational cost as
10:31:13 part of the consideration when we put these projects
10:31:16 together.
10:31:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
10:31:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Steve.
10:31:21 And my comment is not directed toward you at all.
10:31:23 It's directed to the administration generally, and to
10:31:25 Thom Snelling and Cindy Miller.
10:31:29 If you look at item 6, my motion was directed to Mr.
10:31:33 Shelby and to the administration, to work together --
10:31:38 it's not directed to you, Steve -- to work together on
10:31:41 this issue.
10:31:42 And it's my understanding that that didn't happen.
10:31:48 And we shouldn't waste our breath and direct Mr.
10:31:50 Shelby to do these things and to work together if
10:31:53 that's not going to happen.
10:31:54 So I'm just saying that I hope that the intent of the
10:31:58 earlier motion carries over, and Mr. Shelby, as an
10:32:03 integral part of this working with Mr. Caetano and Mr.

10:32:06 Snelling on this, because I think Mr. Shelby could
10:32:08 have a lot to offer.
10:32:10 That's just my --
10:32:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:32:12 Now we go -- do you want to say something, Mr.
10:32:16 Snelling?
10:32:17 Okay.
10:32:19 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to invite Mr. Daignault
10:32:21 and Mr. Snelling and growth management and facilities,
10:32:26 anyone who might be interested in energy conservation,
10:32:30 we have invited a woman from the southern alliance for
10:32:32 clean energy, who has a fantastic presentation, about
10:32:37 the advantages of alternative fuels and clean energy.
10:32:41 And she's going to come next week to our meeting.
10:32:43 So at 10:00 probably.
10:32:45 So I would love to see you all here.
10:32:48 >>GWEN MILLER: We now go to item number -- Mr.
10:32:52 Dingfelder?
10:32:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes, ma'am.
10:32:53 Item 7.
10:33:00 Pursuant to the Bayshore plan amendments, I had some
10:33:03 suggestions that I crafted verbally, and that I

10:33:07 subsequently gave to you in writing.
10:33:09 In working with legal, I think we have concluded it
10:33:13 would be best if I deferred these changes until we do
10:33:16 the plan update, you know, hopefully later in the year
10:33:20 or next year.
10:33:22 That way we can move forward on the language that
10:33:25 staff has proposed, and my language changes won't hold
10:33:31 anything up.
10:33:31 So I'll -- move to strike item 7 from the agenda and
10:33:36 respectfully ask legal staff to remind us to bring
10:33:38 these back when we do the plan update.
10:33:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Second?
10:33:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:33:43 (Motion carried).
10:33:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Shirley Foxx-Knowles needs to come
10:33:51 back and discuss about the boards.
10:33:57 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: City clerk.
10:33:59 Council, I will ask that you continue your vote for
10:34:05 the variance review board for one week based on an
10:34:10 opinion we received from legal.
10:34:13 >>GWEN MILLER: What the opinion was?
10:34:19 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: The question is regarding dual

10:34:20 office holding.
10:34:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ms. Cole, what's the issue?
10:34:29 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
10:34:31 Quite frankly the issue, legal was in the process of
10:34:34 handling and I believe he may be out sick today.
10:34:37 What I understand the issue to be is there was a
10:34:40 request to place on the application the statement
10:34:43 indicating that you can't see in a position how you do
10:34:47 office holding.
10:34:48 You have to be cognizant of that and can't apply for
10:34:51 another board.
10:34:53 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to look at that because we have
10:34:56 a hard time trying to place people on boards.
10:34:59 And if we do that, we might have some boards have
10:35:03 vacancies on them.
10:35:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, actually --
10:35:06 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: We may have a problem with a
10:35:08 quorum depending on outcome.
10:35:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Also, if I can just interject.
10:35:12 The prohibition against dual office holding is state
10:35:15 law, and the legal effect of taking an office is to
10:35:20 remove yourself from your office which you are

10:35:23 presently in.
10:35:23 So it does have a legal effect on the state law.
10:35:26 So that I believe will have to be looked at.
10:35:28 There's one other issue that I believe was requested
10:35:30 to bring to council's attention.
10:35:31 If council selects one person on the ballot that
10:35:38 allows council to select an alternative, because that
10:35:43 person serves as a council appointee.
10:35:47 The other person if selected by council would then
10:35:49 create a vacancy for a mayoral alternate position.
10:35:51 And I guess that will all have to be addressed next
10:35:53 week when you do talk about it.
10:36:00 >>SAL TERRITO: I didn't understand legal discussion
10:36:03 was going on.
10:36:04 When someone is serving on more than one board, it's
10:36:07 considered office holder for all the concerns so if
10:36:10 someone is on board they have to resign from the first
10:36:13 one.
10:36:13 It's that simple.
10:36:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: To expedite things for next week, I
10:36:18 was not that happy about process.
10:36:20 I thought it was very jumbled and jaggedy.

10:36:27 I would ask that Mr. Shelby work with Ms. Foxx-Knowles
10:36:32 and come through with everything clear and Chris I am
10:36:35 to get through the selection process in a very clean
10:36:37 way.
10:36:37 I think we just need to be more efficient in our
10:36:39 appointment making so my motion is next week when they
10:36:42 comes back that everything is clear, that the people's
10:36:44 names are on a list that we get to choose, and a
10:36:48 smooth, quick process.
10:36:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think you gave that message and
10:36:53 probably doesn't need a motion.
10:36:55 >>GWEN MILLER: No.
10:36:55 We are going to move on.
10:36:56 Is there anyone in the public that would like to
10:36:58 request a consideration of a legislative matter?
10:37:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: On the variance board, let's move
10:37:09 to continue that for one week.
10:37:16 Move to continue the neighborhood position for one
10:37:19 week.
10:37:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
10:37:21 (Motion carried).
10:37:22 >>GWEN MILLER: All right.

10:37:25 >> Michael Dufritch.
10:37:31 I had discussion with Mr. Shelby earlier this morning,
10:37:33 and about whether that could or couldn't be heard.
10:37:37 And I wanted to address that so I won't waste your
10:37:39 time but I do need to make the request formally.
10:37:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, as you know, council did
10:37:46 make the changes to reconsideration within chapter 27
10:37:49 addressing reconsiderations.
10:37:51 With regard to rezoning.
10:37:52 There is nothing in chapter 3 upon my review with
10:37:57 regard to the right of reconsideration in chapter 3
10:38:01 wet zonings.
10:38:03 Council's policy, generally its intent was to remove
10:38:08 reconsideration of the possibility of reconsideration
10:38:09 from quasi-judicial matters which is why I changed the
10:38:12 order of business to allow for reconsideration only of
10:38:14 legislative matters.
10:38:16 I informed council today that it's my opinion that he
10:38:21 certainly does have the right to make this request and
10:38:23 put on the record, the fact that he did do so, but
10:38:28 council's policy with regard to quasi-judicial matters
10:38:30 that once there is a final judgment by this council

10:38:36 whose next recourse would be to take to the circuit
10:38:39 court.
10:38:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
10:38:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is it Mr. Busakas?
10:38:47 >>> Anyway you like.
10:38:48 >> Dingfelder.
10:38:49 We can go around with each other on that one.
10:38:53 The attorney has sent us a letter dated June 13th,
10:38:56 and 3-page letter with backup.
10:38:59 And the only concern I have, I don't want to get us
10:39:02 into this business of reconsideration.
10:39:04 Because we have already got out of the business of
10:39:06 reconsideration.
10:39:09 And I think that's healthy.
10:39:10 The only concern I have to our legal staff -- and I
10:39:15 want to know, A, if you have looked at this letter,
10:39:17 because he brings out an issue of procedural defect
10:39:20 and procedural flaw.
10:39:21 In terms of the fact that apparently his client was
10:39:24 only given three minutes to address the issue, and he
10:39:28 claims that perhaps he deals with more.
10:39:31 If you want to discuss it on the record, fine. If you

10:39:33 are comfortable with where we are today, then don't
10:39:37 discuss it odd record.
10:39:40 If you deal with the sensitivity.
10:39:41 But I'll just throw it into your court and look for a
10:39:44 recommendation.
10:39:45 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
10:39:46 I did just review the letter this morning.
10:39:49 But regardless of what is in the letter, the main
10:39:51 issue is body of jurisdiction and whatever issues
10:39:56 remain at this point will have to be resolved in a
10:39:58 different forum.
10:39:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Sorry.
10:40:01 >>> I thank you for your time.
10:40:02 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
10:40:04 would like to speak to any item set on the agenda not
10:40:07 a public hearing?
10:40:08 You may come up and speak now.
10:40:17 >>> I'm Charley guy, Executive Director of the Florida
10:40:20 based nonprofit technology research and development,
10:40:24 and I would just like to share a few comments.
10:40:27 I have been involved in technology now for almost ten
10:40:30 years.

10:40:31 The last years in education looking at specific
10:40:35 solutions to close the academic for some of our
10:40:43 poorest African-American and his pan being students,
10:40:47 and as a part of that, we determined from some
10:40:50 research about 18 months ago that there is what we
10:40:54 refer to a digital learning Apartheid that exists in
10:40:58 our communities, and while we spent millions of
10:41:01 dollars to bring digital access to our schools, our
10:41:05 research was substantiated last September by the U.S.
10:41:09 Department of Education, who found that if you're
10:41:12 black or Hispanic in this country, you have a 50%
10:41:16 greater chance of returning to a home that's
10:41:18 completely digitally dark.
10:41:21 So the concern is that if everything else is even
10:41:25 except those economic and living conditions variables,
10:41:31 that the academic achievement gap between those
10:41:33 students, the haves and have nots, is actually getting
10:41:38 greater so for all the verbiage that we give that we
10:41:42 are attacking the digital divide we are not looking at
10:41:46 other issues.
10:41:46 Now as a part of that we began our own study of the
10:41:49 municipal movement.

10:41:54 It is similar to our findings to what Mr. Buckner
10:41:57 found.
10:41:58 I will suggest to you that part of the problem is the
10:42:02 way that people are approaching this, like Mr.
10:42:04 Buckner -- and I'm not criticizing him -- but your
10:42:10 responses collectively are really more representative
10:42:12 of the approach that should be taken.
10:42:15 Municipal lifeline should not be approached as a
10:42:20 municipal distribution of a service like water or
10:42:24 public safety.
10:42:27 The capital markets within this country do not believe
10:42:32 that the approach that EarthLink and many of those
10:42:34 companies are taking will in fact work.
10:42:36 For some of the things that came out from your
10:42:39 responses.
10:42:40 First of all, they are deploying throughout the
10:42:44 country, as Mr. Buckner alluded to, basically an
10:42:50 inferior system.
10:42:51 In order to get the price down for a blanket approach,
10:42:55 for the whole community, you have to cut costs.
10:42:58 So if you cut costs and download speed and upload
10:43:02 speed, I guarantee you will not move your businesses

10:43:06 even if there was a slight price differential from
10:43:09 your providers, be it Verizon or Bright House cable.
10:43:15 We believe that the approach needs to be taken from a
10:43:18 different standpoint.
10:43:20 Throughout the country, if you go and read the
10:43:26 verbiages in, particularly for Philadelphia wire, they
10:43:30 were the first one to do it, the big catch word is
10:43:35 digital inclusion, the equivalent of the digital
10:43:38 divide.
10:43:38 And the truth is, they took a blanket approach to
10:43:43 solve specific problems within a community that in
10:43:47 fact do meet digital inclusion.
10:43:49 (Bell sounds).
10:43:50 So my recommendation to you all would be -- it's
10:43:56 interesting.
10:43:59 You want to think bigger and you want to be ahead of
10:44:01 the curve, then think small.
10:44:02 The City of Tampa has the opportunity to probably be
10:44:06 one of the First Communities in the country --
10:44:08 >>GWEN MILLER: You need to wrap it up.
10:44:10 Your time is up.
10:44:11 >>> Okay.

10:44:11 To look at deploying this first for East Tampa, and
10:44:14 looking at the applications that need to be delivered.
10:44:19 The solution that is need to be delivered.
10:44:20 Not looking at a blanket.
10:44:23 If you do that, which you are going to find out
10:44:26 there's funding through the U.S. Department of
10:44:27 Education, Department of Labor.
10:44:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, sir.
10:44:30 We appreciate that.
10:44:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Would you please write all of our
10:44:36 council members an explanation of your suggestions so
10:44:39 we can share it with the administration?
10:44:42 >>> Yes.
10:44:42 And I will leave you a copy of the research paper that
10:44:44 does this.
10:44:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker.
10:44:51 >>> Seth Nelson, here to speak on number 3 for the
10:44:54 variance review board.
10:44:56 I applied.
10:44:56 I thought you were going to make that decision today.
10:44:58 But I'll see you next week.
10:45:01 Just to comment on my application, I'm currently an

10:45:03 alternate.
10:45:03 I'm a member of the Florida Bar.
10:45:05 I would appreciate your support.
10:45:06 I think I bring three things to the VRB.
10:45:09 One is I try to help along petitioners that don't have
10:45:13 counsel.
10:45:13 We get a lot of them with the process.
10:45:15 Because I found when people understand the process
10:45:18 even if you don't agree, if they don't agree with your
10:45:21 outcome they seem to accept it more readily.
10:45:23 Two, I bring a balance to the board.
10:45:25 Sometimes people can get heated.
10:45:27 I look for a compromise in those situations that would
10:45:29 alleviate a lot of the appeals to City Council.
10:45:32 And, three, I just think I'm fair.
10:45:35 And the reason I believe that is I spoke with the
10:45:41 neighborhood association president and she said, Seth,
10:45:43 I don't always agree with the way you come out but I
10:45:46 know I will get a fair hearing.
10:45:48 When I stopped in a supermarket a builder said, Seth,
10:45:51 I don't agree with how you always come out but I feel
10:45:55 I get a fair hearing.

10:45:57 If I can get that from both sides I feel there is a
10:46:00 fair outcome.
10:46:01 I would appreciate your support next week.
10:46:03 Thank you.
10:46:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:46:08 >>> Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
10:46:09 My name is Moses Knott, Jr., I reside at 2902 East
10:46:13 Ellicott street three nights a week and I just thank
10:46:17 God for his grace and his mercy.
10:46:19 And Ms. Chair, I want to talk about this article 3
10:46:24 this morning.
10:46:27 And you know I got to bring the word in on everything
10:46:31 I do.
10:46:31 Everything I do I put God up front.
10:46:33 And I'm feeling blessed now.
10:46:38 But I want to talk about this this morning.
10:46:40 You all were talking about appointing people to
10:46:43 different boards, you know.
10:46:45 That was the best argument you all ever could have
10:46:48 come up with.
10:46:48 You know, this here, I been coming here 30-some years,
10:46:52 way before they got TV.

10:46:53 But the best we ever had before.
10:47:00 You all are educated people up there now, and you all
10:47:04 got plans to make sure that -- and when I say
10:47:10 educated, I love educated and an open mind.
10:47:17 Mr. Joe, I thank you this morning, you were talking
10:47:19 about bringing those unclaimed water pipes in, now.
10:47:22 I thank you for that.
10:47:25 But people can't afford water over there, you know.
10:47:29 But run those pipes, down there in the rich part of
10:47:35 town, but I really appreciate what you all done.
10:47:45 Like I said, when y'all picked Mr. Shelby, Mrs. Linda
10:47:56 Saul-Sena, now what I'm talking about, they do what
10:48:00 they want to do to people.
10:48:01 And us people, we didn't have no freedom at all.
10:48:04 But what I'm saying, though, when you all appointed
10:48:07 Mr. Shelby, you are going to get a city lawyer, and
10:48:11 I'm sitting in the back, you know, and I got a chance
10:48:13 to speak, too, after it was all over with.
10:48:19 All they had to do is you all give him that job, this
10:48:21 and that.
10:48:22 But I am so glad that you all vote this thing up and
10:48:25 down.

10:48:25 Another thing that I thank God for, you all used to
10:48:29 vote on things up there and you all had buddies.
10:48:32 You know, you all vote for the same thing, hell come
10:48:37 rain every week.
10:48:40 You know, vote on this and that.
10:48:42 But the supreme court passed a law that you all had to
10:48:46 have a perfect reason why you said no, I want to vote
10:48:50 for this.
10:48:50 So I'm glad of that.
10:48:52 And use the law way down the line.
10:48:56 But I want to say, though, this thing has come a long,
10:49:00 long ways.
10:49:00 And I really appreciate it.
10:49:02 But when you all looked at those boards, I heard you
10:49:06 all say each one of you pick a member.
10:49:10 And Ms. Miller, I thank God for you.
10:49:12 You said you are going to bring a friend to the board
10:49:14 and how it's going to come out and check them out, you
10:49:17 know, got to be approved by all of you all before they
10:49:21 get appointed in.
10:49:23 But you all talk about, what they call it, oh, my God.
10:49:32 >> Green?

10:49:33 >>> No, the code enforcement.
10:49:36 Hearing master.
10:49:38 And talk about the hearing master do more than you all
10:49:43 are doing.
10:49:43 (Bell sounds).
10:49:50 >>> Good morning.
10:49:53 Neal, east River Hills Drive.
10:49:55 I hadn't planned to address number 5 but as the past
10:50:00 chairman of the cable advisory board, when we were
10:50:02 negotiating a contract for Bright House and for
10:50:04 Verizon, I would remind you that into the schools,
10:50:10 hard wired, so Internet access was hard wired.
10:50:15 We also considered the Wi-Fi and didn't consider it a
10:50:18 good idea attempt, and quite frankly, I would suggest
10:50:21 that Wi-Fi in its current state in the city is going
10:50:24 into right now will fail, even the Wi-Fi MAX.
10:50:28 There's a reason for that. That is if you build Wi-Fi
10:50:31 into an area with speeds such as 1 megabyte, the more
10:50:38 people sign on the slower the speed which means you
10:50:41 have to add more infrastructure to the Wi-Fi system.
10:50:45 Secondly the new I phone being brought out by apple is
10:50:48 bringing out a new technology that is going to allow

10:50:51 people to access the Internet on their computer
10:50:54 through their cell phone.
10:50:56 In most cases, most people are not going to pay an
10:50:59 extra fee for a Wi-Fi access downtown when they have
10:51:04 their cell phone with them and they are paying for
10:51:06 their Internet access at home.
10:51:09 I know I wouldn't.
10:51:10 And just as a reminder, to color my point, all of the
10:51:14 book stores that currently have Wi-Fi access have
10:51:18 failed in charging those extra fees.
10:51:20 The only place that I have seen Wi-Fi actually work is
10:51:25 Panera bread at the university mall and I don't know
10:51:28 if they have it in the others but it's free of charge
10:51:30 and the students are wildly -- it's a wildly popular
10:51:33 place and it's free Wi-Fi access.
10:51:35 The only way you are going to succeed is to charge.
10:51:40 I would say wait, do your due diligence and see what
10:51:42 happens over the next few months.
10:51:44 The only other thing I wanted to mention was number 6.
10:51:51 I would recommend that you explore -- let me back up
10:51:55 one minute.
10:51:55 A journey is made up of several small steps, not a

10:51:58 giant leap.
10:51:59 I think Tampa does need to hurry and get ahead of the
10:52:03 curve but let's do it carefully and again with due
10:52:06 diligence.
10:52:07 One thing I suggest is that you explore green overlay
10:52:10 districts.
10:52:11 And in doing that, you might look at something like --
10:52:14 I'm prejudiced -- but 40th street, a development
10:52:17 idea that's coming up soon.
10:52:19 But there are places where you can experiment with
10:52:22 green overlay to see how to make this project work.
10:52:29 What I heard the discussion going on was, there wasn't
10:52:32 any definition to it.
10:52:33 And if you want to succeed, like I said, small steps
10:52:38 help you succeed in a project.
10:52:40 And I really recommend that.
10:52:42 And the one thing that I agree with, Ms. Mulhern, and
10:52:46 I think Ms. Saul-Sena will agree with me, too, I hope
10:52:49 the rest of you will, the impact of environment on
10:52:51 construction is the most important thing we have to
10:52:53 consider because that's the whole point of it, is to
10:52:56 reduce our carbon influence.

10:52:59 The one thing you have to do when you do green
10:53:01 construction is plant trees, you have to include bike
10:53:03 trails, so you can reduce people using their cars,
10:53:07 mass transit, that sort of thing.
10:53:10 If you see what all of the cities are doing across the
10:53:13 country including Chicago -- I think mayor Daly was on
10:53:16 the news the other night, they planted over a million
10:53:19 trees in downtown Chicago alone.
10:53:21 It absorbs the carbon and it helps the environment.
10:53:24 Thank you.
10:53:24 (Bell sounds).
10:53:31 >>> My name is Graham Carruthers, an attorney here in
10:53:36 Tampa.
10:53:37 I'm here on rezoning petition Z-06-71, which is the
10:53:41 Hyde Park village rezoning.
10:53:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Not on the agenda.
10:53:45 >> It's scheduled to come before you on July 26th.
10:53:48 >>GWEN MILLER: You are asking for what?
10:53:49 >>> We are asking that the public hearing be reset for
10:53:52 September 27th in order to allow the applicant
10:53:55 time to amend the plans based on DRC recommendation.
10:54:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Have you spoken with staff on the

10:54:04 day?
10:54:05 >>> Yes, staff is aware that we would be here asking
10:54:08 for --
10:54:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ms. Coyle, any objection?
10:54:12 >>> It's not a continuance.
10:54:13 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
10:54:17 I have no objection.
10:54:18 I would state for the record that he does need to pay
10:54:20 the amendment fee in order for the clerk to renotice.
10:54:24 He has advertised.
10:54:27 >>> We were aware of that.
10:54:28 >>GWEN MILLER: What's the pleasure of council?
10:54:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
10:54:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
10:54:32 (Motion carried).
10:54:33 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else like to speak?
10:54:35 We go to our committee reports.
10:54:41 I'm so happy to see number 13, to have an addition to
10:54:46 it.
10:54:47 We had a function there.
10:54:47 We had the mayor in.
10:54:48 It was so crowded, people couldn't even get in.

10:54:51 So that's when I started working with the mayor and
10:54:54 let her know that we need to have it to be enlarged.
10:54:59 Been almost a year and a half and finally coming onto
10:55:02 the agenda and I appreciate that.
10:55:04 I hope you all support that.
10:55:08 The Woodland Terrace community center.
10:55:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: For those of you who aren't able to
10:55:14 go on the trip down the river, the good news is fa
10:55:17 that five years after the first trip down the river
10:55:19 it's looking better than ever, because of both the
10:55:22 mayor's beautification committee and the City of Tampa
10:55:24 making some great strides in terms of improving the
10:55:28 parks and shoreline restoration and we have seen many
10:55:32 under number 10 for SWFWMD giving us money for
10:55:34 shoreline restoration.
10:55:36 It's really looking good.
10:55:37 I would like to move 8 through 13.
10:55:40 >> Second.
10:55:40 (Motion carried).
10:55:41 >>GWEN MILLER: We go to public works.
10:55:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think somebody is here from the
10:55:50 administration to just clarify for us what the

10:55:53 $779,000 on 14 and 15 is for.
10:56:03 >> Good morning.
10:56:05 It's raining.
10:56:08 >>BRAD BAIRD: Brad Baird, water department. This is
10:56:11 on 14 and 15 is my understanding.
10:56:13 This is a complicated issue, operating in engineering.
10:56:18 I'll do my best to keep it simple.
10:56:21 This is an emergency connection only at 301 near the
10:56:26 Tampa Bay water plant.
10:56:27 And what it does for us is in a catastrophic event the
10:56:34 situation where we cannot provide water from the David
10:56:40 Tippin plant.
10:56:42 And that would be a situation such as a severe drought
10:56:47 and failure, God forbid, water quality compromise, we
10:56:54 would have a way to provide water to the south part of
10:56:57 our service area.
10:57:00 This is something that probably should have been done
10:57:03 years ago.
10:57:06 And it is a very responsible thing to do as a
10:57:12 contingency for our system.
10:57:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:57:17 Mrs. Saul-Sena.

10:57:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Are we working toward making this
10:57:20 kind of connection permanent?
10:57:21 I know there's been conversation about creating a
10:57:23 southerly connection so that we can buy additional
10:57:26 resources from Tampa Bay water to supplement our water
10:57:28 if we need it.
10:57:29 >>BRAD BAIRD: Yes.
10:57:32 Eventually this would become a permanent connection.
10:57:37 When it is needed as an emergency.
10:57:39 So, for example for instance, ten years from now we
10:57:42 have a catastrophic event, at that point, we would
10:57:44 have a year to make it a permanent connection.
10:57:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You are connecting from the Howard
10:57:53 Tippin on 30th to the Broadway plant that Tampa
10:57:57 Bay water has?
10:58:00 >>BRAD BAIRD: This would be a connection at the 301
10:58:03 plant, the Tampa Bay water currently operates, to
10:58:07 provide water to a transmission main that we have on
10:58:11 301, 36-inch in diameter, and would be used in
10:58:16 emergency only.
10:58:17 And I might add, there are other things that go with
10:58:22 that, such as we would have to eliminate outdoor use

10:58:30 totally to make this effective.
10:58:31 If we were to provide all the water for the south part
10:58:35 through that connection on a long-term basis, it would
10:58:39 be unsafe from a hydraulic standpoint.
10:58:43 So this is again just for an emergency.
10:58:47 And it's a good contingency to have.
10:58:49 It's a good, responsible thing to do.
10:58:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:58:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move item 14 through 16.
10:58:55 >> Second.
10:58:56 (Motion carried).
10:58:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Finance Committee, Mr. John Dingfelder.
10:59:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm going to defer item 17 and 18
10:59:05 for two weeks.
10:59:06 I have got some unanswered.
10:59:12 (Motion carried).
10:59:13 >> I move items 19 and 20.
10:59:17 >> Second.
10:59:17 (Motion carried).
10:59:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Building and zoning.
10:59:20 Mr. Joseph Caetano.
10:59:21 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I move items 21.

10:59:27 >> Second.
10:59:27 (Motion carried).
10:59:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Transportation, Ms. Mary Mulhern.
10:59:31 >>MARY MULHERN: I move items 22 through 26.
10:59:34 >> Second.
10:59:34 (Motion carried).
10:59:35 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to set public hearings.
10:59:39 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry to interrupt.
10:59:43 Ms. Coyle is present because there's some issues with
10:59:45 regard to the dates for some wet zonings she would
10:59:48 like to address with council.
10:59:49 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
10:59:52 Item 29, 30 and 32, there are wet zoning applications
10:59:58 potentially or supposed to be scald for September 20,
11:00:01 2007. The reason being if you notice there are some
11:00:05 scheduled for July and some for September.
11:00:06 We are skipping August because you have the third
11:00:08 Thursday canceled for an obligation that you have with
11:00:11 council.
11:00:12 We would make the request -- the petitioner has
11:00:15 requested if they could be heard any earlier that
11:00:17 potentially would you set wet zonings for either

11:00:20 August 23rd or 30th of August in lieu of
11:00:23 scheduling them out to September.
11:00:26 Two of the three have approached us and said that they
11:00:28 have -- their business is ready to open and they are
11:00:33 looking to move a little sooner, if that's possible.
11:00:35 We are having no wet zonings in August right now as it
11:00:38 stands.
11:00:40 The 23rd or 30th of August. The 23rd is a
11:00:43 night meeting. The 30th there is not a night
11:00:46 meeting.
11:00:48 21, 30 and 32.
11:00:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll move 29, 30 and 32 to the day
11:00:54 meeting on the 30th of August.
11:00:57 >> Second.
11:00:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 10 a.m.
11:01:03 (Motion carried) I'll move 27, 28, 31, 33, 34, to the
11:01:08 time suggested on the agenda.
11:01:11 >> Second.
11:01:11 (Motion carried).
11:01:12 >>GWEN MILLER: We go to our ordinances for first
11:01:15 reading.
11:01:16 We need to ask if there is anyone in the public going

11:01:19 to speak on item number 35.
11:01:21 Anyone going to speak on item 35?
11:01:24 Need to open 35.
11:01:26 >> So moved to open 35.
11:01:28 >> Second.
11:01:28 (Motion carried).
11:01:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It's my understanding council that
11:01:31 there have been written communications to today's
11:01:33 hearing which have been available for public
11:01:35 inspection at council's office, I ask that they be
11:01:37 received and filed at this time prior to votes.
11:01:40 >> So moved.
11:01:41 >> Second.
11:01:41 (Motion carried).
11:01:42 >> Is there anyone to speak on 35?
11:01:52 >> Move to close.
11:01:53 (Motion carried).
11:01:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move the following ordinance on
11:01:57 second reading, an ordinance amending ordinance
11:01:59 2007-35 which made lawful the sale of beverages
11:02:02 containing alcohol regardless of alcoholic content
11:02:04 beer, wine and liquor 4(COP-X) for consumption on

11:02:06 premises only at or from that certain lot, plot or
11:02:09 tract of land located at 4601 and 4615 east Fowler
11:02:14 Avenue and 11315 north 46th street, Tampa,
11:02:17 Florida, correcting a scrivener's error by
11:02:20 substituting the correct survey, providing for repeal
11:02:23 of all ordinances in conflict, providing an effective
11:02:24 date.
11:02:25 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
11:02:27 Vote and record.
11:02:48 67 did it record?
11:02:49 Let's vote over again.
11:02:50 Set it back again.
11:03:01 Vote and record.
11:03:12 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with
11:03:13 Dingfelder being absent at vote.
11:03:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public wants to
11:03:18 speak on item 36 through 41?
11:03:20 Would you please stand and raise your rite right hand?
11:03:22 (Oath administered by Clerk).
11:03:34 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to open number 36.
11:03:36 (Motion carried).
11:03:39 >>BARBARA LYNCH: Land Development Coordination.

11:03:45 I am using the Elmo.
11:03:46 This is a vacating petition for a portion of north
11:03:48 street.
11:03:49 It's generally located in East Tampa, just south of
11:03:52 the Hillsborough River, and just west of 40th Street.
11:03:57 On the map that I have, the property is outlined in
11:04:00 red, and the vacating is in yellow.
11:04:04 And more specifically -- and I actually had another
11:04:08 graphic that would be easier to look at when I talk
11:04:11 about the roads.
11:04:19 (off microphone)
11:04:25 This is the piece of right-of-way, 45 feet long.
11:04:38 I have some photos.
11:04:44 This is a picture of north street, west of 39th
11:04:47 street.
11:04:50 >>GWEN MILLER: You need to use the portable mike.
11:05:06 They can't hear you.
11:05:07 >>> This is north street looking east from 38th
11:05:09 street.
11:05:15 And this is the portion previously vacated.
11:05:20 This is the petitioner's property looking west from
11:05:22 38th street.

11:05:26 And east from 39th street.
11:05:28 Staff has no objection to this request.
11:05:30 And complies with chapter 13 regarding the tree.
11:05:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
11:05:37 >>CHAIRMAN: Speak into the mike so we can hear you.
11:05:46 Give your name and address.
11:05:49 >>> Harmon Dean, 405 West Amelia.
11:05:56 >>SHAWN HARRISON: Harmon Dean.
11:05:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Any questions by council members?
11:06:01 Is there anyone in the public that wants to speak on
11:06:04 item 36?
11:06:05 >> Move to close.
11:06:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I apologize.
11:06:09 In a nutshell what is he intending to vacate?
11:06:15 >>> Eventually we'll build single-family homes on the
11:06:17 property.
11:06:18 But it was unimproved for quite awhile.
11:06:25 We are just trying to vacate it.
11:06:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The continuation has been vacated,
11:06:32 the next property over?
11:06:34 >>GWEN MILLER: We need a motion to close.
11:06:37 >> So moved.

11:06:38 >> Second.
11:06:38 (Motion carried)
11:06:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move to adopt the following
11:06:46 ordinance upon second reading.
11:06:49 First reading.
11:06:54 Petitioner Betty Bing to vacate, close, discontinue,
11:06:58 and a bon Don a certain right-of-way a portion of
11:07:01 north street, lying south of Lancaster street north of
11:07:04 Hanna Avenue, east of 38th street and west of
11:07:08 39th street, in Crandall's addition to Belmont
11:07:11 Heights, a subdivision in the City of Tampa,
11:07:13 Hillsborough County, Florida.
11:07:14 >>: Second.
11:07:16 (Motion carried).
11:07:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Number 37.
11:07:21 >> Move to open.
11:07:21 >> Second.
11:07:22 (Motion carried)
11:07:22 >>THOM SNELLING: Growth management again.
11:07:29 I'm standing in for the presentation on the historic
11:07:33 preservation property tax exemption.
11:07:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Snelling, this is kind of

11:07:46 pro forma.
11:07:47 I'm comfortable.
11:07:48 And I'm comfortable to see if there's any other public
11:07:51 comment, move forward.
11:07:53 >>THOM SNELLING: Do you want me to show you the great
11:07:55 pictures?
11:07:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
11:08:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: There it is.
11:08:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Wow!
11:08:13 >>> It's over by the interstate.
11:08:17 Part of the interstate relocation program.
11:08:21 I was very impressed.
11:08:24 If you have questions I'll answer them.
11:08:26 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
11:08:28 wants to speak on 37?
11:08:29 >> Move to close.
11:08:30 >> Second.
11:08:30 (Motion carried).
11:08:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move an ordinance approving an
11:08:36 historic preservation property tax exemption
11:08:38 application relative to the restoration, renovation or
11:08:41 rehabilitation of certain property owned by Rachel

11:08:42 Haller locate at 1915 west LaSalle street formerly
11:08:47 located at 2312 west Laurel street Tampa, Florida in
11:08:50 the West Tampa national historic district, based upon
11:08:52 certain findings providing for notice to the property
11:08:56 appraiser of Hillsborough County providing for
11:08:58 severability, providing for repeal of all ordinances
11:09:00 in conflict, providing an effective date.
11:09:04 >> Second.
11:09:04 (Motion carried).
11:09:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Number 38 is a continued public
11:09:10 hearing.
11:09:10 >>JILL FINNEY: Land Development Coordination.
11:09:14 Petition Z-07-04 located at 4603, 4705 and 4719 east
11:09:24 Regnas from RS-75 to PD planned development.
11:09:28 Single family detached residences.
11:09:32 Petition was originally heard before City Council on
11:09:34 May 24th.
11:09:35 At that time council had directed the petitioner to
11:09:38 make some minor text and graphical changes to the site
11:09:41 plan that had been overlooked.
11:09:45 Petitioner has done this.
11:09:46 At this time staff has in objection.

11:09:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
11:09:57 >>> David Clisset, I'm the representative.
11:10:01 Also present the design development and owner of
11:10:04 country gardens LLC.
11:10:06 We are the petitioner.
11:10:09 This is a request that had been reviewed for the size
11:10:12 of lots.
11:10:12 This is a nine-acre parcel, which we proposed 46
11:10:17 single-family homes on.
11:10:19 The current zoning is RS-75.
11:10:21 The future land uses are 10.
11:10:28 It's appropriate for your review at this time.
11:10:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
11:10:31 wants to speak on item 38?
11:10:32 You may speak now.
11:10:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry.
11:10:36 I believe if there is somebody who wishes to address
11:10:39 that I think petitioner should have his time to make
11:10:41 his case unless he feels he wishes to waive that time.
11:10:45 >> Reserve for rebuttal.
11:10:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Want to reserve for rebuttal?
11:10:51 >>> Sure.

11:10:52 >>> Terry Neal, 4703 hillside, president, Temple Crest
11:10:57 civic association.
11:10:57 At the last meeting I stated the official position of
11:10:59 the civic association which was, we do want to
11:11:02 maintain the current zoning.
11:11:04 However, building on what I said last time and
11:11:07 building on what I said this morning that if you do go
11:11:09 ahead and approve this petition, I think this would be
11:11:12 a great green overlay for you to consider for
11:11:17 providing incentives to a builder, for including
11:11:22 environmentally friendly building, landscaping, and
11:11:25 other things like that.
11:11:26 And that's what I want to suggest to you.
11:11:29 So I had a method to my madness this morning. Anyway,
11:11:35 that's all I wanted to say.
11:11:37 Thank you very much.
11:11:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. Neal.
11:11:39 I read an article about sustainability and I cited
11:11:42 this as an example of good, responsive sustainable
11:11:48 development.
11:11:49 So their out standing efforts are already being
11:11:51 recognized.

11:11:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone else that would like to
11:11:54 speak?
11:11:54 Petitioner, do you want rebuttal on that?
11:11:57 >>> No, thank you.
11:11:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
11:12:00 >> Second.
11:12:01 (Motion carried).
11:12:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Move an ordinance rezoning in the
11:12:06 vicinity of 4603, 4705 and 4719 Regnas Avenue in the
11:12:13 city of Tampa, Florida and moral particularly
11:12:15 described in zoning district classification RS-75
11:12:18 residential single family to PD planned development
11:12:20 single family attached residential providing an
11:12:22 effective date.
11:12:23 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
11:12:24 (Motion carried)
11:12:29 Number 39 is a continued public hearing.
11:12:46 >>JILL FINNEY: Land Development Coordination.
11:12:59 I have been sworn.
11:13:00 We are here on petition Z-07-19 located at 1103 north
11:13:05 22nd street, going from IH, heavy industrial, to
11:13:09 do. PD, planned development with the uses of

11:13:12 furniture store, accessory daycare, restaurant and
11:13:15 warehousing uses.
11:13:18 The petition was originally heard before City Council
11:13:21 on May 24th, 2007 at the direction of council.
11:13:24 The petitioner has made some minor adjustments
11:13:28 pertaining to tree and land scalping, transportation,
11:13:31 stormwater.
11:13:33 Based on these revision it is majority of the
11:13:35 objections have been removed from the staff report.
11:13:40 Landscaping does maintain their objection, even though
11:13:46 50% said they don't feel the canopy is still being
11:13:50 saved.
11:13:50 And Land Development Coordination has the objection to
11:13:55 over 400% of the allowable signage being proposed.
11:14:02 That completes my presentation.
11:14:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
11:14:04 >>DAVID MECHANIK: 305 south Boulevard, Tampa, Florida.
11:14:17 I'm here on behalf of Panattoni development.
11:14:25 I also have with me Vin Marchetti, for IKEA and the
11:14:32 manager of real estate for IKEA with me this morning.
11:14:36 We did a full presentation and we had a full public
11:14:38 hearing so we were not planning on doing another

11:14:40 presentation this morning, but we would be happy to
11:14:43 answer any questions.
11:14:46 We did make the corrections requested by the staff on
11:14:50 our site plan and we did have those properly filed,
11:14:53 and we will be happy to answer any questions you would
11:14:57 have.
11:14:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have to make a statement that I
11:15:01 spoke with the petitioner and their representative
11:15:03 after the last hearing, which I you say I have to say
11:15:11 that and I did.
11:15:12 The reason I did is because I felt the amount of
11:15:15 impervious surface was vast and it's going to
11:15:17 create -- I think for a company that prides itself on
11:15:23 good design and sustainability that the sea of asphalt
11:15:28 is just not good stewardship.
11:15:30 And I begged them to go back and redesign it with an
11:15:34 eye toward additional landscaping, reduction of their
11:15:38 carbon footprint.
11:15:39 And I just wonder if you had that opportunity.
11:15:43 >>DAVID MECHANIK: I could ask Mr. Laird to speak to
11:15:48 that.
11:15:48 I would point out that the parking lot is 25%

11:15:51 impervious but I would like Mr. Maher to speak to the
11:15:55 other question.
11:15:58 >>> Michael Maher.
11:16:01 I was aware after the last hearing and we have looked
11:16:07 into the opportunity to do that.
11:16:09 At this stage of our planning for this project, two
11:16:14 things I am really up against.
11:16:15 One is a budget. The cost to do concrete pavers
11:16:19 asphalt is -- versus asphalt is twice as expensive,
11:16:22 and a primary consideration for us.
11:16:25 But we do look at I mentioned IKEA does pride itself
11:16:30 on being an environmentally friendly company so other
11:16:33 items that we have introduced on the site plan that I
11:16:36 am sure you are aware of, impervious coverage double
11:16:44 what it exists today.
11:16:45 We are planting 600 new trees, extensive landscaping,
11:16:50 island. The roof of IKEA, to take into consideration
11:16:59 elements of sustainability what you are seeking for.
11:17:02 But we do mention to the group that heads up the
11:17:06 expansion for North America, IKEA, as Dave mentioned
11:17:09 and something we will look into for fought projects.
11:17:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Other questions by council members?

11:17:15 Is there anyone in the public that wants to speak on
11:17:19 item 39?
11:17:20 >> Move to close.
11:17:20 >> Second.
11:17:21 (Motion carried).
11:17:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm not going to be able to support
11:17:26 this.
11:17:27 I have really given it a lot of thought.
11:17:28 I don't know that my vote will make any difference.
11:17:31 But I think it's important that the people from IKEA,
11:17:34 who I really respect, are not doing what they know
11:17:36 they should be doing.
11:17:37 This is going to be a hugely profitable store.
11:17:40 It's going to be great that they improve things in the
11:17:41 future but this is the one in Tampa, Florida.
11:17:44 What was there previously was built decades ago.
11:17:47 It obviously is durable.
11:17:51 We are thrilled you are replacing it.
11:17:53 We believe you could do a better job and I'm
11:17:56 disappointed that you are not do doing what you know
11:18:00 you can do and doing what our community expects.
11:18:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: On the one handy agree with you,

11:18:08 Mrs. Saul-Sena.
11:18:09 But on the other hand I think we could be doing a
11:18:10 better job with our code.
11:18:13 If we believe our standards should be different, then
11:18:16 we need to change our standards.
11:18:18 We need to demand greater pervious areas, and better
11:18:23 materials, and that sort of thing, and change our code
11:18:26 accordingly.
11:18:27 And I think that's probably part of our continuing
11:18:29 discussion with Mr. Snelling and Mr. Caetano on the
11:18:33 greenish you, because, you know, these massive parking
11:18:36 lots, and also with transportation.
11:18:40 If transportation demands a huge number of spaces,
11:18:42 then it's a vicious cycle.
11:18:45 >> But our staff said they weren't meeting landscaping
11:18:48 code.
11:18:50 They are not meeting landscaping code.
11:18:52 They are not putting in the adequate trees.
11:18:54 >>> Well, they are putting in the adequate trees.
11:18:56 It's just she had requested that they be four inch
11:19:03 trees that help enhance the canopy of the city.
11:19:06 >> What are they putting in?

11:19:08 >>> Two inch.
11:19:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I understand four inch and two inch
11:19:22 and the difference is two inch.
11:19:23 And I'm not here to make a laughing joke out of this
11:19:26 thing.
11:19:26 But that's what it comes out to be.
11:19:29 I don't know what the life cycle is of planning a
11:19:33 four-inch, sometimes they die.
11:19:36 Does a two inch have a possibility of being a
11:19:39 four-inch?
11:19:40 I hope so.
11:19:41 And a greater tree?
11:19:42 I hope so.
11:19:43 So I remember sometime in history -- and I don't know
11:19:46 if they are still doing it, I assume they are still
11:19:48 doing it, the City of Tampa was planning at one
11:19:49 time -- planting at one time 1,000 new trees a year.
11:19:54 Are we still doing that?
11:19:58 And the next question, are they two inch or four inch?
11:20:00 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
11:20:06 Ms. Coyle is looking at that issue.
11:20:08 However, I would recommend you reopen the public

11:20:10 hearing if you want to --
11:20:12 >> No, I am not going to do that either.
11:20:14 >>GWEN MILLER: You can't ask any more questions.
11:20:17 The public hearing is closed.
11:20:18 If you want to ask questions you have to reopen the
11:20:20 public hearing.
11:20:21 >> Move to reopen.
11:20:22 >>JULIA COLE: If you are going to be requesting
11:20:24 additional information and the applicant absolutely
11:20:26 has the right to discuss that.
11:20:29 You need to move to reopen the public hearing and have
11:20:31 a conversation with more information.
11:20:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to reopen.
11:20:37 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I don't want to ask a question.
11:20:40 I just want to make a statement F.we want to create
11:20:42 economic development, we cannot be put in these tight
11:20:45 rules of people coming here.
11:20:48 If that's the case, the city is going to have to start
11:20:50 changing what they are using on repaving all these
11:20:53 roads.
11:20:55 I'm sure some of the steps they are using, it's a lot
11:20:59 better than it was 15 years ago, 10 years ago.

11:21:02 And we cannot put restrictions that's going to
11:21:05 prohibit people from wanting to come here, if we
11:21:08 weren't creating economic development.
11:21:13 >>MARY MULHERN: I'll make it a statement.
11:21:15 I wanted to make at question but I guess I can't.
11:21:17 This is an interesting example of why we need to look
11:21:21 at incentives for green building, because obviously in
11:21:26 the kind of change we want to see in the building
11:21:28 that's going on is not going to just naturally happen,
11:21:31 unless we provide those incentives.
11:21:33 So I think for our staff, this is what we need to look
11:21:38 into.
11:21:39 How could we have gotten more trees and how could we
11:21:41 get more pervious surface out of people coming in with
11:21:44 incentives?
11:21:46 Because clearly he stated this was not economically
11:21:48 feasible.
11:21:50 >>GWEN MILLER: The public hearing is closed.
11:21:53 It's time to vote it up or down.
11:21:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move to reopen the
11:21:57 public hearing to hear from the petitioner if they are
11:21:59 willing to put in four inch trees.

11:22:01 >>MARY MULHERN: Second.
11:22:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Let's vote on that.
11:22:05 >> All in favor of reopening the public hearing say
11:22:07 Aye.
11:22:08 Opposed, Nay.
11:22:10 It's 4-3.
11:22:13 >> Do you know who voted?
11:22:18 Dingfelder and Mulhearn moved. Miranda, Miller, Scott
11:22:23 and Caetano voted no.
11:22:25 Okay.
11:22:30 Are you supporting it?
11:22:31 Would you read it?
11:22:33 >>MARY MULHERN: I move to adopt the ordinance on first
11:22:38 reading, an ordinance rezoning property in the general
11:22:42 vicinity of 1103 north 22nd street in the city of
11:22:46 Tampa, Florida and more particularly described in
11:22:48 section 1 from zoning district classifications IH
11:22:52 industrial heavy to PD planned development furniture
11:22:56 store with accessory daycare, restaurant and
11:22:58 warehousing uses providing an effective date.
11:23:00 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
11:23:02 (Motion carried) check clerk motion carried with

11:23:06 Saul-Sena voting no.
11:23:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
11:23:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I would like to make a motion, in
11:23:14 60 days for -- and Mr. Gram to come to council to talk
11:23:26 about the difference between two inch and four inch
11:23:28 caliper trees.
11:23:29 For four years I have been hearing this.
11:23:31 We don't require four inch trees.
11:23:32 But then at the last minute we ask for four-inch
11:23:35 trees.
11:23:35 And I just would like us to have a nice healthy
11:23:38 discussion outside of the parameters of a rezoning,
11:23:40 and just to hear staff's opinion, and anybody else's
11:23:44 opinion for that matter, development community's
11:23:46 opinion, on that issue.
11:23:47 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
11:23:48 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Normally that would be under staff
11:23:57 reports under unfinished business which would be five
11:24:00 minutes and council wanted to hear from additional --
11:24:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The normal time limit but if the
11:24:11 public wants to speak to it they can speak to it in
11:24:13 audience comments?

11:24:15 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
11:24:16 (Motion carried).
11:24:18 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
11:24:21 A request for this item that you scheduled the second
11:24:24 reading for the ordinance for July 26, I think it was
11:24:27 stated previously during the public hearing, IKEA's
11:24:33 require them to take this approval back to their
11:24:36 headquarters which would require additional time
11:24:38 before it comes back for second reading.
11:24:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion to move to the 26th.
11:24:45 >> So moved.
11:24:46 >> Second.
11:24:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: 9:30 a.m.
11:24:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 40 is a continued public
11:24:50 hearing.
11:25:24 >>JILL FINNEY: Land Development Coordination.
11:25:26 I have been sworn.
11:25:28 Z-07-24 located at 7700 Courtney Campbell going from
11:25:34 PD planned development with hotel commercial uses to
11:25:38 PD planned development, hotel commercial and
11:25:40 residential uses.
11:25:42 The petitioner is proposing to rezone the property to

11:25:44 allow for 274 room hotel, 136 condominium units, and
11:25:52 48 residential units, and 3,81500 square feet of
11:25:59 commercial uses with a maximum height of 220 feet.
11:26:03 This petition was originally heard before council on
11:26:05 May 24th, 2007, and at the direction of council
11:26:09 the petitioner has added the tree and landscape waiver
11:26:13 and addressed solid waste concerns and corrected the
11:26:16 conflicting information on the site data table.
11:26:18 Based on these revisions staff has been satisfied with
11:26:25 the new site plan, and there are only a few
11:26:30 objections, that D.O.T. has certain conditions that
11:26:34 they are asking them to meet, and tree and landscaping
11:26:39 maintains a technical objection to the petitioner's
11:26:43 request.
11:26:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
11:26:44 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: Suite 3700 Bank of America Plaza.
11:26:56 I'm joined this morning by Sandra Patel and rob Moore
11:27:03 on this application.
11:27:04 Two issues on FDOT, we have included in our condition
11:27:09 that project site access will be provided according to
11:27:14 D.O.T. standards subject to D.O.T. regulations and
11:27:17 conditions.

11:27:17 So we have covered that issue.
11:27:19 Secondly, there's a technical objection from the
11:27:22 landscaping department on the removal of the trees on
11:27:25 the site, and two weeks ago we were going to clear the
11:27:30 site and redevelop this project.
11:27:32 We were going to remove 100% of the trees.
11:27:37 Now we are going to remove 78% of the trees.
11:27:39 However, they are replanting on the site is going to
11:27:42 exceed chapter 13, and we put a condition in the
11:27:46 general notes that requires compliance with chapter
11:27:48 13.
11:27:48 I think you may have seen the elevations we had two
11:27:50 weeks ago.
11:27:51 So we are asking you to approve the site plan as
11:27:54 recommended by the staff.
11:27:55 If you have any questions we are happy to answer.
11:28:00 Thank you.
11:28:00 >>CHAIRMAN: Anybody in the audience that wants to
11:28:03 speak on item number 40?
11:28:05 >> Move to close.
11:28:05 >> Second.
11:28:06 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: An ordinance rezoning property in

11:28:08 the general vicinity of 7700 west Courtney Campbell
11:28:11 causeway in the city of Tampa, Florida and more
11:28:17 particularly described in section 1 from zoning
11:28:19 district classifications PD, planned development,
11:28:23 hotel, commercial, to PD, planned development, hotel,
11:28:26 commercial, residential, providing an effective date.
11:28:28 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
11:28:31 (Motion carried).
11:28:33 Item 41, continued public hearing.
11:28:57 >>JILL FINNEY: Land Development Coordination.
11:29:03 Here on -- here on petition Z 07-40, 313 south
11:29:08 bungalow park going from RM-16 multifamily to RO 1,
11:29:17 single-family residential use.
11:29:20 This petition was originally heard before council on
11:29:22 May 24, 2007, and at the request of staff, the
11:29:28 petitioner has revised his site plan, as you can see,
11:29:34 and therefore the only objection that remains is for
11:29:41 the green space waiver that has now been added to the
11:29:44 site plan.
11:29:44 You will remember there were two people that had come
11:29:48 to speak against the proposed petition, and I have an
11:29:53 e-mail from one of the ladies that had objections and

11:30:02 is now in support if I can read it into the record.
11:30:09 And that concludes my presentation.
11:30:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
11:30:16 >>> My name is Dennis Morris.
11:30:18 I have been sworn in.
11:30:18 I live at 2903 west Bayshore court.
11:30:21 And we have done everything that staff has asked of
11:30:25 us.
11:30:25 And I feel it's going to be a nice project, saving a
11:30:29 lovely older home, and hopefully you will vote for it.
11:30:32 Thank you.
11:30:33 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
11:30:34 wants to speak on item 41?
11:30:36 >> Move to close.
11:30:37 >> Second.
11:30:37 (Motion carried).
11:30:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
11:30:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move an ordinance rezoning property
11:30:42 in the general vicinity of 313 south bungalow, Tampa,
11:30:45 Florida and more particularly described in section 1
11:30:47 from zoning district classification RM-16 to RO 1
11:30:51 residential office professional office single family,

11:30:55 providing an effective date.
11:30:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
11:30:56 (Motion carried)
11:31:00 Item 42 is an appeal hearing.
11:31:02 Need to open it.
11:31:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
11:31:05 >> Second.
11:31:05 (Motion carried)
11:31:08 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
11:31:18 The petition you have before you is an appeal of the
11:31:20 zoning administrator decision to deny special use
11:31:24 request to expand a congregate living facility from
11:31:27 the current 8 beds that were approved in 2000 to 16
11:31:32 beds.
11:31:32 The location is 4011 north Habana Avenue.
11:31:37 As I said, the site did receive a special use 1
11:31:41 approval for eight beds in April of 2000.
11:31:43 The plan depicts the pass-through driveway that
11:31:46 circulates one way from west Holland street to north
11:31:50 Habana.
11:31:51 Commissioner has agreed to provide with landscape,
11:31:55 waste and sidewalk requirements.

11:31:57 Through a special use request, any type of special use
11:32:00 request that petitioner does have to comply with
11:32:03 landscaping requirements and other provisions of the
11:32:06 code.
11:32:06 What we are considering is the actual use that's being
11:32:10 proposed.
11:32:12 Under findings of fact you will notice the zoning
11:32:14 administrator, myself, denied the request for failure
11:32:18 to comply with the bed limit that we have in the RS-50
11:32:20 zoning district.
11:32:22 The RS-50 zoning district is a single-family
11:32:24 residential zoning district, 50-foot minimum lot
11:32:28 width, currently in the special use requirements we
11:32:32 allow up to eight beds, no more than.
11:32:35 We were obligated under the code provisions to deny
11:32:38 this request because they were requesting 16.
11:32:43 As a matter of practice through a special use 1 appeal
11:32:46 process City Council may consider waivers if found
11:32:51 consistent with chapter 27-269 general standards for
11:32:55 special uses.
11:32:56 I included those on the second page of the staff
11:32:57 report.

11:33:01 If you will focus in on number 4 under the general
11:33:03 standards, the use is in conformity with the Tampa
11:33:06 comprehensive plan.
11:33:08 You will note on the next page under letter E, policy
11:33:13 B-4.3, outlines the following parameters for adult
11:33:18 congregate living facilities.
11:33:21 They McMullen Booth licensed by the state.
11:33:23 They McMullen Booth in a category, land use category
11:33:26 that permits this type of use.
11:33:27 And there is a calculation I think is spelled ow on
11:33:31 the comprehensive plan and there's two different ways
11:33:33 to calculate. The first is being based on the floor
11:33:36 area ratio.
11:33:37 In this particular land use category, there's a floor
11:33:39 area ratio of 35%, .35.
11:33:43 They fell just below that, at 3,570 square feet.
11:33:50 The second is how they calculate the beds based on the
11:33:53 density of the land use category.
11:33:55 And the way that you calculate that is to multiply the
11:33:58 average persons prosecutor household, which is a
11:34:00 calculation we render every year to the city.
11:34:05 That particular calculation based on a residential 10

11:34:08 use land use category only equal between 4 and 5
11:34:12 persons on this particular piece of property.
11:34:15 They already have eight beds plus the caregiver.
11:34:19 They are requesting 16.
11:34:20 So it does exceed the comprehensive plan calculation.
11:34:23 You will note also attached, that I passed out this
11:34:25 morning, there is a Planning Commissioner for it, Mr.
11:34:28 Garcia was unable to attend due to a previous
11:34:30 obligation.
11:34:31 Did he want me to read this into the record.
11:34:33 The Planning Commission also finds the special use
11:34:36 request not in compliance with and does not further
11:34:38 the intent of the goals, objectives and policies of
11:34:41 the city Tampa comprehensive plan notes the same
11:34:46 finding.
11:34:49 Based on the calculation and that additional policies
11:34:50 on page 3.
11:34:52 And they did find it inconsistent, and they are
11:34:54 objecting to the request.
11:34:56 If you have any questions I'm available.
11:34:59 >>CHAIRMAN: Questions from council members?
11:35:00 Petitioner?

11:35:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Question of legal before petitioner
11:35:08 speaks, if I could.
11:35:13 Remind us of the standard we need to be voting on in
11:35:16 terms of this appeal, number one.
11:35:18 Number two -- well, go ahead with that.
11:35:21 And then I'll go to number 2.
11:35:23 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
11:35:24 In front of you is an appeal from the zoning
11:35:27 administrator determination that she could not grant
11:35:32 the special use permit, kind of a hybrid.
11:35:35 It's an appeal from that discussion but she has no
11:35:38 authorization to grant the use because it doesn't
11:35:40 strictly comply with the code.
11:35:41 What's in front of you today is in and of itself a
11:35:44 special use permit with additional waivers that you
11:35:47 would be reviewing it on the basis of the waivers and
11:35:49 whether or not you feel it's appropriate to grant the
11:35:51 waivers.
11:35:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: My second question was to the use
11:35:54 of the facility.
11:35:58 Immediately when she comes up and talks about
11:36:00 expanding, I want to ask her what type of use we're

11:36:02 talking about.
11:36:03 Are we talking about alcohol treatment, drug
11:36:05 treatment?
11:36:07 Mental retardation?
11:36:09 Kind of like what we dealt with about a month ago.
11:36:12 But I want to make sure that I am not out of bounds in
11:36:14 asking that question.
11:36:16 Is use relevant to our approval or denial?
11:36:21 >>> Ms. Coyle has indicated she may be able to shed
11:36:25 some light on that issue.
11:36:26 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
11:36:28 As far as alcohol or drug treatment facilities, that
11:36:30 is a completely different use type in our zoning code.
11:36:33 That falls under professional residential treatment
11:36:35 facilities which are allowed in different zoning
11:36:37 categories.
11:36:39 This is specifically a congregate living facility,
11:36:42 where personal services are rendered to the persons
11:36:45 they are essentially taking care of.
11:36:46 It's assisted living.
11:36:48 They are not allowed to, under our code, administrator
11:36:50 directly medication, but they can assist in medication

11:36:54 delivery.
11:36:55 And they are providing personal care services such as
11:36:58 cutting hair, bathing, dressing.
11:37:02 It's essentially assisting them to live.
11:37:06 >> So Ms. Coyle, from your legal perspective you don't
11:37:09 mind if we stray into those?
11:37:11 >>> I don't have a problem -- in the last situation I
11:37:14 did look at the code and found the way the code reads,
11:37:17 you could limit in the that fashion.
11:37:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
11:37:28 >>> For the past six years I brought my license, never
11:37:47 had a problem with that, with the neighbors or any
11:37:50 licensing people or anybody like that.
11:37:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Questions by council members?
11:38:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Are you basically expanding the
11:38:06 building to accommodate the additional beds that you
11:38:07 would like approved?
11:38:09 >>> Yes, I am.
11:38:10 I am going by the rules by the AHCA, agency of health
11:38:15 care administration.
11:38:20 I think --
11:38:26 >> Do you have enough parking to accommodate the

11:38:28 caregivers as well as the visitors for the clients you
11:38:31 have?
11:38:35 >>> I did spoke to the transportation department and
11:38:38 give them the drawing and everything and they said
11:38:41 it's okay with them.
11:38:42 >> Two spaces for caregivers as well as visitors?
11:38:45 >>> Yes.
11:38:48 >> How many caregivers do you have for the people?
11:38:50 If you were to have 16 beds how many caregivers would
11:38:53 you have?
11:38:56 >>> Three people, three employees? Where would the
11:38:59 additional people park if they had to drive?
11:39:01 >>> We do have a requirement with transportation
11:39:07 department, additionally only two, but if they want
11:39:10 more, we have enough space on the drawing.
11:39:15 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This is in the southeast corner,
11:39:17 about three blocks north of Tampa Bay.
11:39:21 >>> Yes.
11:39:21 >>: If I remember, you have a driveway, not a straight
11:39:27 driveway.
11:39:28 One on one side of the house and one on the other side
11:39:30 of the house.

11:39:31 Half moon shape.
11:39:32 >>> We have some space in the back behind the space on
11:39:34 the column side.
11:39:38 So whatever transportation department requires, I'll
11:39:40 go with them.
11:39:43 >> Let me ask and expand a little more what Mrs.
11:39:46 Saul-Sena said.
11:39:47 Is your building going to get bigger?
11:39:49 >>> Uh-huh.
11:39:51 >> Okay.
11:39:51 I just want to make sure that she understood that.
11:39:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Other questions by council?
11:39:59 Mr. Dingfelder?
11:40:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do current residents that you have
11:40:02 right now, just talking about seniors?
11:40:05 >>> Yes, mostly they are in their 80s and 90s,
11:40:08 mostly elderly.
11:40:14 In our past six, seven years, we have more elderly.
11:40:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think that helps in terms of the
11:40:24 driving, parking issue.
11:40:27 >>> None of them drive.
11:40:29 That's my rule.

11:40:30 I don't take anybody with driving.
11:40:31 This is more strictly for people that need some
11:40:36 supervision, assistance.
11:40:41 >> Would you have any objection if we limited the
11:40:43 approval to speak to over 65 and non-driving?
11:40:46 Would you have any problem with that?
11:40:48 >>> I'm sorry, say that again?
11:40:49 >> If we included in the approval over 65,
11:40:52 non-driving, which is what you are doing anyway.
11:40:54 >>> That would be fine.
11:40:54 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Ma'am, you only have two parking
11:41:00 spaces for your caregivers?
11:41:07 >>> The zoning department requested it.
11:41:09 But once we are doing the parking space, I'll go with
11:41:12 the rules, by their rules.
11:41:14 If I can make it more, you know, if they say it's okay
11:41:17 with them, I don't have any problems.
11:41:20 >> Do you have room to make more spaces?
11:41:22 >>> Yes, I do.
11:41:23 >> What if one of your occupants has a visitor?
11:41:27 Where do they park?
11:41:28 >>> Usually that place, I have in place from 1995,

11:41:37 parking space and never had a problem so far.
11:41:39 So whatever they are requiring by city rules, I go by
11:41:42 whatever they say.
11:41:43 >> Do they get visitors there?
11:41:46 >>> Mostly elderly, so I would say once a week, you
11:41:50 know, some people, most of them live a long distance.
11:41:55 Some of them they come like every six months.
11:41:57 It's not like a daily visit.
11:41:59 I have maybe one or two residents that come daily
11:42:02 basis.
11:42:04 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Thank you.
11:42:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Other questions?
11:42:07 Is there anyone in the public that wants to speak on
11:42:09 item number 42?
11:42:15 Ms. Cole, did you want to say something?
11:42:17 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
11:42:18 I was going to ask for directions.
11:42:19 If you did want to add an additional condition, you
11:42:23 would need to direct the legal department to revise
11:42:26 the ordinance to add that in.
11:42:27 Could you come back tonight.
11:42:32 >>CHAIRMAN: Need to close.

11:42:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
11:42:34 >> Second.
11:42:35 (Motion carried).
11:42:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Need direction from council.
11:42:37 Mr. Dingfelder?
11:42:38 Dill
11:42:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll move respectfully to reverse
11:42:42 the zoning administrator's decision.
11:42:46 I think CLFs are a good thing for the community,
11:42:51 particularly for our seniors and other folks.
11:42:53 I would like, in light of the petitioner's agreement,
11:42:57 I would like to go ahead and direct legal to adjust
11:43:02 the ordinance to limit this to over 65, non-drivers,
11:43:05 and that way we won't have to worry too much about the
11:43:07 parking issue.
11:43:10 And that would be my motion.
11:43:14 They can come back tonight.
11:43:16 >> Second.
11:43:16 (Motion carried).
11:43:18 >>JULIA COLE: Is it okay if we do that first?
11:43:24 >>GWEN MILLER: At 5:30.
11:43:26 >> Do we already have a 5:30?

11:43:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
11:43:32 >> Could I get the site plans back so I can modify
11:43:36 them?
11:43:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Now we go to information from council
11:43:46 members.
11:43:47 Mr. Caetano, do you have anything?
11:43:50 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: No, ma'am.
11:43:53 >>MARY MULHERN: No.
11:43:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No, ma'am.
11:43:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
11:43:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Circle back to me, please.
11:44:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: No, ma'am.
11:44:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes, ma'am.
11:44:03 I share with all the council members a memo I wrote
11:44:07 about Bayshore Boulevard.
11:44:09 We had that major conversation last week about the
11:44:11 Bayshore overlay and I found out today at 2:00 our
11:44:15 transportation department is doing a request for
11:44:18 qualifications for thinking of how to improve
11:44:23 Bayshore.
11:44:24 And I was surprised that nobody mentioned it last week
11:44:28 while we were hearing from the public.

11:44:29 Interested about Bayshore.
11:44:32 I would like to move the administration appear before
11:44:34 council on June 28th to explain the role of parks
11:44:39 and recreation, urban design, and a public place in
11:44:44 crafting the scope of work for projects on Bayshore.
11:44:49 I just want to make sure that this is not viewed
11:44:52 solely as a transportation project, because Bayshore
11:44:55 also plays a strong role as an icon of the city, as a
11:45:00 linear park, and a place where many of our exciting
11:45:04 public celebrations are staged.
11:45:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
11:45:07 (Motion carried).
11:45:10 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
11:45:13 The only comment that I would like to make at this
11:45:15 time is, that's going through a bid process, so that
11:45:21 would be Mr. Daignault or someone from his office.
11:45:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder, are you ready now?
11:45:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
11:45:33 Didn't have anything in particular.
11:45:34 I would like to comment and chime in on Mrs.
11:45:36 Saul-Sena's and I'm pleased you pointed that out.
11:45:39 It's a little embarrassing to me.

11:45:40 Yesterday somebody came up and said I'm really
11:45:43 interested in bidding on the Bayshore RFP.
11:45:46 And I said, what Bayshore RFP?
11:45:49 And it really was a shame that we weren't aware of
11:45:52 that.
11:45:54 And now that Mr. Smith has walked into the audience, I
11:45:58 hope it will keep us better informed on things like
11:46:01 the Bayshore RFP in the future.
11:46:07 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Madam Chairman, to Mr.
11:46:10 Dingfelder, I know Bayshore is in your district.
11:46:12 When I heard about the so-called bumps last week, when
11:46:17 Ms. Saul-Sena stated 20 years ago that the bumps were
11:46:20 there, I requested the administration to give me a
11:46:24 tour with somebody from public works.
11:46:26 I would like to see these bumps.
11:46:27 I rode down there Sunday.
11:46:29 Mr. Dingfelder, if you want to come with me that would
11:46:31 be fine.
11:46:32 I know it's your district.
11:46:33 I cannot believe.
11:46:35 I hear all kinds of excuses.
11:46:37 I want to get down there with somebody from public

11:46:39 works, Mr. LaMotte or Mr. Daignault is not going to be
11:46:44 there.
11:46:44 They are going to send another expert from within the
11:46:46 department to review this.
11:46:48 Thank you.
11:46:49 >>GWEN MILLER: I would like to make a motion to
11:46:51 present a commendation to the 100 black men
11:46:54 organization who are going to be recognizing their
11:46:56 contribution to the Tampa Bay community by offering
11:46:58 programs that guide our youth in life experiences in
11:47:03 recognition of their celebration this Sunday.
11:47:07 And I will be presenting the commendation.
11:47:08 We have a motion and second.
11:47:09 (Motion carried)
11:47:14 Mr. Smith, are you here to speak?
11:47:19 >>> Gerald Smith, chief of Sarasota.
11:47:21 We are monitoring at the council meeting this morning
11:47:23 at the time when the agenda was reviewed.
11:47:27 And it's my understanding that item 17 and 18 were
11:47:30 pulled at that time.
11:47:32 We provided staff to come over in accordance with your
11:47:36 policies and rules.

11:47:38 And at the time there was no indication that staff
11:47:42 input was required and there has been no explanation
11:47:44 of why those two items were pulled.
11:47:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes, there was.
11:47:50 >>> I did not hear anything as far as the public
11:47:52 comment portion or during the meeting.
11:47:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes, I will specifically express
11:47:59 it.
11:48:00 My motion was to defer for two weeks.
11:48:02 I said I had questions on the issue as well as another
11:48:04 council member had questions on the issues.
11:48:06 So unless there's some contract in the project that
11:48:14 Mr. Smith specifically wants to tell us about that's
11:48:15 being held up, then council has asked for an
11:48:17 additional two weeks for additional briefing on those
11:48:20 projects -- on those contracts.
11:48:24 >>DARRELL SMITH: Can you give us some more information
11:48:28 as to the areas of interest?
11:48:31 >> No, I mean, I am not going to take council's time
11:48:33 to do that right here in this forum.
11:48:35 >> Taking council's time for deferring it for two
11:48:37 weeks based on the information provided is also an

11:48:40 important consideration.
11:48:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
11:48:43 Thank you.
11:48:45 >>> Madam Chair, I have Greg spearman if you would
11:48:47 like his view of item 17 and 18 now.
11:48:50 And if you still want to continue it after that we
11:48:53 would be glad to do so.
11:48:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you want to hear from Mr. Spearman?
11:49:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have detailed questions.
11:49:02 I have many questions.
11:49:03 It's my department.
11:49:03 I ask council to defer though Todd Pressman those
11:49:05 questions, as well as there was another council member
11:49:08 who is not sitting here this morning who also
11:49:11 suggested that he had some questions.
11:49:13 So with that, we already have a motion.
11:49:14 It's already been approved.
11:49:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I will respond, councilman
11:49:24 Dingfelder.
11:49:24 That's why to me, get briefed in advance so you can
11:49:31 move the item.
11:49:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I tried.

11:49:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: On issues like that so everybody is on
11:49:39 the same page and the questions are answered before
11:49:43 the meeting, and that way, we can move forward.
11:49:48 >>GWEN MILLER: I feel the same way.
11:49:49 If you have questions on any committee reports, you
11:49:51 need to talk with the staff.
11:49:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't want to have this
11:49:57 discussion.
11:49:57 >>GWEN MILLER: I just asked if you reached I am him
11:50:00 who are not.
11:50:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: My questions were not answered.
11:50:04 Each one of you will have items over if next four
11:50:07 years where you will want pulled and deferred.
11:50:12 I tried.
11:50:12 >>GWEN MILLER: You need to try first.
11:50:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I tried.
11:50:17 >>> The information I had yesterday was there was a
11:50:21 call from councilman Dingfelder's offers that he
11:50:24 wanted to discuss it today, to have staff here to do
11:50:26 it.
11:50:27 He asked Mr. Daignault to be here, the person for the
11:50:31 job program is Mr. Spearman.

11:50:32 Weighs here as requested.
11:50:36 The contract was signed last week and approved, the
11:50:38 first of three.
11:50:40 So if there are questions, and we need additional
11:50:43 information, we would like more advanced involvement,
11:50:47 also, so that we can move on, rather than just
11:50:50 deferring two weeks and two weeks and two weeks.
11:50:52 So with the appropriate information we would be glad
11:50:55 to provide that.
11:50:59 Madam Chair, again I have Mr. Spearman here if you
11:51:02 would like more information today.
11:51:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I don't have any questions for Mr.
11:51:06 Spearman but I was so disappointed because I know you
11:51:09 watch council meetings, that when council is having a
11:51:11 very complex conversation last week about Bayshore,
11:51:14 that no one from the administration pointed out that
11:51:16 you all were doing this RFP today.
11:51:19 How come nobody came and said, by the way, we are in
11:51:22 the middle of looking at this stuff?
11:51:24 >>DARRELL SMITH: I don't know, ma'am.
11:51:25 I was out of town last Thursday.
11:51:28 I might have sent someone over but it would depend on

11:51:30 what the discussion was as far as whether we are going
11:51:32 to bring staff out and divert from whatever we are
11:51:35 doing to come and address the issues.
11:51:37 So I apologize if the RFP was a surprise, not
11:51:42 appropriately provided as information.
11:51:43 That really is a separate topic from what we are
11:51:45 discussing here.
11:51:46 >>GWEN MILLER: I guess some council members -- Mr.
11:51:56 Dingfelder left and he's the one that pulled them.
11:51:58 He wants the explanation.
11:52:00 He's not going to make a motion to not do it for two
11:52:05 weeks.
11:52:05 So we would like to apologize to you.
11:52:08 I saw you this morning.
11:52:09 I thought he would ask you to speak but he didn't.
11:52:11 So we have to wait for two weeks because Mr.
11:52:14 Dingfelder left.
11:52:16 >>DARRELL SMITH: Yes, ma'am.
11:52:17 I just ask council's appreciation for our situation in
11:52:23 the administration.
11:52:24 We are trying to be as responsive and manage our time
11:52:27 appropriately, and the best utilization of personnel.

11:52:31 When there is a request for us to come over, we are
11:52:33 going to be here.
11:52:34 And we would like to be used effectively, once we
11:52:37 commit to that kind of report.
11:52:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me just say, Mr. Smith, I like
11:52:45 information up front.
11:52:46 I don't like information to come to the meeting.
11:52:50 I think council heard this over and over again.
11:52:52 I don't like documents appearing when we need a vote.
11:52:56 My process has always been, I kind of raise these
11:53:02 questions before the meeting, so that I can get
11:53:04 answers.
11:53:05 If I can't get answers in, then we have got a problem.
11:53:07 I don't know what the situation is between with Mr.
11:53:11 Dingfelder.
11:53:11 But primarily, when you come to a public meeting, you
11:53:16 really want to know answers beforehand.
11:53:20 At least I do, you know.
11:53:21 So, therefore, if it moves kind of swiftly and
11:53:25 smoothly without any complication.
11:53:27 I don't know what the conversation was between the
11:53:30 administration and Mr. Dingfelder, why his

11:53:33 questions -- I don't know.
11:53:35 But I believe that we can work together and move
11:53:38 forward, you know, in terms of information sharing.
11:53:42 And, again, my process, or at least how I functioned
11:53:46 in the past, is that the more information that's
11:53:49 provided up front in a timely fashion, it helps me to
11:53:52 be able to make a good decision.
11:53:57 >>> I totally agree and will continue to try to
11:54:00 provide that kind of support.
11:54:01 >>GWEN MILLER: I agree, too. If council member has a
11:54:03 question on any item on the agenda he can try to
11:54:05 contact staff before we come to council meeting so
11:54:07 when we get here you have the answers, if it's not
11:54:10 completely what you want then you ask for a
11:54:13 continuance.
11:54:13 But let's tray to contact the staff it's our time in
11:54:18 the meeting, too.
11:54:19 So you don't have to pull these items.
11:54:21 So I would suggest that council members contact the
11:54:23 staff, and if you can't get the answers then you bring
11:54:27 it to council.
11:54:27 >>DARRELL SMITH: Even more importantly I would suggest

11:54:30 that the council members contact me directly, because
11:54:32 I can make sure that the appropriate staff are there,
11:54:34 and that they are adequately prepared to respond an
11:54:38 answer your questions.
11:54:39 So if you would contact me directly, anything that you
11:54:42 need as far as preparing for a council meeting, I
11:54:45 think that's the way it would work most effectively.
11:54:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:54:49 We appreciate that.
11:54:52 All right.
11:54:52 Mr. Shelby?
11:54:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, council, before you go to
11:54:55 audience comment and adjourn, just a reminder that
11:54:59 your council retreat, for lack of a better term, and
11:55:03 we'll have to come up with a better one, is scheduled
11:55:05 for this Monday, June 18th at 9 a.m., at the
11:55:09 children's board, the board room at 1002 east Palm
11:55:13 Avenue.
11:55:16 I believe it's east of Nebraska.
11:55:18 And that is from 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. with an hour break
11:55:24 for lunch.
11:55:25 And I do wish it to be a success.

11:55:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Madam Chairman, for the sake of
11:55:33 councilman Miranda, you know, he thinks retreat means
11:55:37 going backwards.
11:55:39 Generally what retreats are is to focus, is to refocus
11:55:43 and to plan and have a strategy how you want to move
11:55:47 forward.
11:55:48 So for the sake of encouraging you to come, I would
11:55:52 say it's our strategic planning session.
11:55:57 So call it a strategic planning session B by council.
11:56:07 >>CHAIRMAN: We have a motion and second.
11:56:12 Anything else to come before council?
11:56:14 We stand adjourned until 5:30.
11:56:17 (Meeting adjourned)