Tampa City Council
Thursday, July 26, 2007
6:00 p.m. session
The following represents an unedited version of
realtime captioning which should neither be relied
upon for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
The original of this transcript was produced in all
capital letters and any variation thereto may be a
result of third party edits and software compatibility
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.
18:03:58 [Sounding gavel]
18:03:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Tampa City Council is called to order.
18:04:02 It is my pleasure tonight to introduce our special
18:04:05 guest, Kelly Holden, a sophomore at Robinson high
18:04:11 school, where she is a varsity cheerleader.
18:04:15 She participants in the model United Nations program
18:04:18 at Robinson.
18:04:19 She currently holds a G.P.A. of 4.5.
18:04:22 She also plays golf and the piano. Her mother Chris
18:04:26 is here tonight with her.
18:04:27 So, Kelly, would you please come to the podium stand
18:04:29 and audience, would you please stand and remain
18:04:33 standing for the pledge of allegiance?
18:04:39 >>> The souls of men are one, and I am one with them.
18:04:44 I seek to love, not hate.
18:04:44 I seek to serve and not exact due service.
18:04:47 I seek to heal, not hurt.
18:04:50 Let pain bring due reward of light and love.
18:04:54 Let the soul control the outer form, and life, and all
18:04:55 events, and bring to light the love of the times.
18:05:02 Let vision come and insight.
18:05:05 Let inner union demonstrate, and out cleavages be gone.
18:05:10 Let love prevail.
18:05:14 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
18:05:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Roll call.
18:05:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
18:05:39 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
18:05:40 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
18:05:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
18:05:44 Cathy Coyle, are you going to clean the agenda for us?
18:05:47 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
18:05:58 What is circulating right now is the marked-up version
18:06:01 of the agenda.
18:06:13 The recent changes in the process will truly unfold
18:06:16 tonight with the motions that council makes, being
18:06:19 able to approve -- we have done a couple like this but
18:06:21 being able to approve on first reading, if it's not
18:06:25 appropriate to do so, with motions directing certain
18:06:27 changes to plans.
18:06:29 But being able to approve them without having to
18:06:32 So I'm here to help you through that process as the
18:06:35 different cases unfold.
18:06:37 Wall see on the agenda before you, before item number
18:06:40 1, are some general notes.
18:06:45 It's an opening statement guiding you through what a
18:06:47 note change is and graphical change which is
18:06:49 considered minor and circumstantial and each is marked
18:06:55 up with guidance towards City Council options,
18:06:58 different types of motions and whether or not there
18:06:59 are any staff objections or other issues remaining
18:07:02 with the petition.
18:07:04 Item number 1, we did receive an e-mail from Todd
18:07:09 Scime, the petitioner's representative requesting a
18:07:11 continuance to October 25th.
18:07:13 I did note this was originally set for October
18:07:15 26th, 2006.
18:07:18 So with this continuance, which I believe will be the
18:07:21 fourth, this petition will be around for a year.
18:07:24 There are a couple of grand trees on-site that he is
18:07:27 trying to redesign around.
18:07:29 I would note that a redesign of the project is
18:07:32 substantial and it would be at least a minimum
18:07:34 four-week continuance.
18:07:35 And I give you options, continuing to October 25th
18:07:39 at 6:00.
18:07:41 Could you certainly open the case and hear it.
18:07:43 If you are willing to approve or deny the case at that
18:07:46 point you could, based on the competent, substantial
18:07:48 evidence in the record.
18:07:50 >>GWEN MILLER: What is the pleasure of council?
18:07:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Although I am not one for
18:08:00 continuations in a series of events especially for
18:08:03 something that's a year, I have to give this
18:08:05 applicant, whoever that person is, a rain check.
18:08:10 We were not here when all this first happened.
18:08:13 And I would move for one continuation, the last
18:08:17 continuation, and be it stated to the petitioner, this
18:08:19 is his last continuation, till October 25th of
18:08:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that came
18:08:26 to speak on this?
18:08:28 You can speak to the continuance only.
18:08:36 >>> Janice Williams, 1902 west Conrad street.
18:08:40 I'm president of the old West Tampa neighborhood
18:08:42 association and crime watch.
18:08:48 I'm against continuing to October really for two
18:08:50 First of all, at our last hearing, which was March
18:08:54 22nd, councilwoman Saul-Sena had verified that the
18:08:58 petitioner was to come back before the overlay
18:09:02 committee prior to us meeting at this time.
18:09:06 And the reason for the petitioner to go back to
18:09:09 overlay was that there had been a design change.
18:09:13 And because of that design change, and this is told to
18:09:18 me by Michael Randolph from the West Tampa CDC, that
18:09:21 the petitioner was to come back before the overlay so
18:09:24 that we can see what these changes are.
18:09:28 I don't know how many times you allow a petitioner to
18:09:31 continue a rezone request, but according to my
18:09:37 records, as the lady before me said, October 26th,
18:09:41 2006, by the time this comes back up again, it will
18:09:44 have been a year.
18:09:45 That's not fair.
18:09:46 What has this petitioner been doing for the last four
18:09:52 And the neighborhood needs to know.
18:09:54 We have not received a good neighbor notice.
18:09:56 What has he been doing these four months?
18:09:58 And you yourself, councilwoman Saul-Sena, verified
18:10:03 that he's supposed to do these things. Anyway, that's
18:10:07 all I have to say.
18:10:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question.
18:10:11 Has he ever met with you?
18:10:13 >>> No, he has not.
18:10:14 >> Is the petitioner here tonight?
18:10:16 >>CHAIRMAN: Yes, he is.
18:10:25 >> Yes, counsel members, I have met with Mike
18:10:28 And Janice, I have met specifically with Mike Randolph
18:10:32 and the West Tampa CDC, okay?
18:10:35 So that is correct.
18:10:36 And we have a grand tree that the root, over the
18:10:42 canopy of the tree will affect our design.
18:10:45 We are here to work with West Tampa CDC and all of the
18:10:48 neighbors so we can come before you with a
18:10:50 presentation that everybody is happy with.
18:10:53 Yes, go ahead.
18:10:53 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you could state your name for the
18:10:59 >> Todd Scime.
18:11:03 >>MARY MULHERN: Isn't one of our options, if we deny
18:11:06 the continuance, then we have to hear the case if the
18:11:09 petitioner wants to present it?
18:11:11 >>CATHERINE COYLE: You can certainly hear the case.
18:11:18 >>MARY MULHERN: If we deny the continuance then we are
18:11:21 going to hear the case?
18:11:23 >>> Correct.
18:11:23 And to check with Mr. Shultz, there is a report.
18:11:26 However, we do have a round of comments.
18:11:28 Wee we can certainly make around of comments so we can
18:11:30 at least put the staff objection was the new site plan
18:11:33 on the record for you, for you to weigh in the case.
18:11:43 >>MARY MULHERN: I second Mr. Miranda's motion.
18:11:46 I don't think these people should continue these
18:11:50 So if we let them do this one more time, I would
18:11:53 rather do that than have to listen to something that's
18:11:57 not complete, and then they'll come back again and
18:11:59 have a first reading.
18:12:00 So we'll be hearing this three times.
18:12:04 So I am going to second Mr. Miranda's motion.
18:12:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Shelby?
18:12:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm just curious, council, I haven't
18:12:12 reviewed the file to find this out but there was
18:12:14 discussion by the neighborhood association president
18:12:18 with regard to not receiving good neighbor notice.
18:12:21 I'm just wondering if the petitioner would tell us
18:12:23 when the last time this was noticed.
18:12:25 When was the last time you sent out notices on this
18:12:27 particular petition?
18:12:31 >>> The notices, once we had come out, we had sent an
18:12:34 e-mail that we were going to pay for the renotice.
18:12:37 So we are going to go ahead and do that.
18:12:40 Once we have staff opinion, and we have a grand tree
18:12:45 on the left side.
18:12:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just in terms of notice.
18:12:49 What is being renoticed for October 25thth?
18:12:54 >>> 30 days prior?
18:12:55 In accordance with -- yes.
18:12:56 >>MARTIN SHELBY: In accordance with the code.
18:12:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Scime, I really feel so
18:13:04 strongly that we directed you to meet with this lady.
18:13:13 If this comes up again, and you have not met -- and I
18:13:16 don't mean at the last minute, I mean like early on so
18:13:19 that they have an opportunity to review your plan, and
18:13:22 you have an opportunity to make changes to address
18:13:26 their concerns prior to coming back.
18:13:28 Because the next time is the last time.
18:13:31 >>> I agree.
18:13:33 Thank you.
18:13:33 >>GWEN MILLER: You need to get with Ms. Williams.
18:13:37 Get with Ms. Williams.
18:13:38 And you all get a date so we can come back and we
18:13:41 don't have this problem again.
18:13:43 We have a motion to continue to October 25th.
18:13:48 6 p.m.
18:13:48 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
18:13:50 Opposed, Nay.
18:13:50 (Motion carried).
18:13:52 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Item 4, there has been a request to
18:13:59 continue for two weeks.
18:14:00 We have no objection to the continuance.
18:14:01 There are some minor changes that do need to be made,
18:14:04 based on DRC issues.
18:14:06 There will be a motion to continue to August 9th
18:14:08 at 6 p.m. so that the applicant can correct the plan.
18:14:14 And there is an opening.
18:14:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that came
18:14:16 to speak to item 4?
18:14:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move for the continuance to
18:14:20 August 9th at 6 p.m.
18:14:22 (Motion carried).
18:14:23 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Item number 5 is requested to be
18:14:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to withdraw.
18:14:31 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion say Aye.
18:14:34 Opposed, Nay.
18:14:34 (Motion carried).
18:14:35 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Item number 7 cannot be heard.
18:14:42 They have asked for October 11th to reschedule.
18:14:45 They will be required to renotice.
18:14:48 So if you could reset -- make a motion to reset the
18:14:51 hearing to October 11 at 6 p.m.
18:14:54 79 it cannot be heard.
18:14:56 >> So moved.
18:14:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second on the request of Mrs.
18:15:01 (Motion carried).
18:15:02 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Item number 12.
18:15:14 This is completely at council's discretion.
18:15:17 >>GWEN MILLER: What about number 8?
18:15:19 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Oh, no action needed on that.
18:15:22 The item has already been rescheduled by council.
18:15:24 You will note that above.
18:15:26 Petitioner showed up earlier.
18:15:27 Already reset that.
18:15:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Remove that from the agenda, please.
18:15:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 12.
18:15:35 >>CATHERINE COYLE: This is an interesting issue, when
18:15:39 we are dealing with a minor to substantial changes to
18:15:43 site plans.
18:15:43 What we have given you are some ops options.
18:15:46 You can certainly move forward and hear the case.
18:15:49 Upon my review of the case, land development is
18:15:52 objecting to the design of the proposed housing.
18:15:56 It's in the Seminole Heights overlay.
18:15:58 It does not meet the standards.
18:16:01 If council is willing to approve, that would be with a
18:16:06 However, I wanted to state for the record that I'm
18:16:08 deeming it a substantial change, if you move to
18:16:10 actually direct the petitioner to change the petition,
18:16:14 which will require a four-week continuance based on
18:16:16 the code.
18:16:17 You do at the end have the option of not hearing the
18:16:20 case and directing the petitioner to simply make the
18:16:23 alterations if you would like.
18:16:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Am I thinking what you're saying
18:16:32 is, if I remember the Seminole Heights overlay,
18:16:35 there's a certain height that the house has to be from
18:16:37 the median of the roadway from the top --
18:16:43 >>> Yes.
18:16:43 That's not the particular issue.
18:16:45 It's actually the projection of the garage, is the
18:16:47 actual issue.
18:16:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: What would your recommendation be?
18:16:53 Would it to be wait and let them make the changes so
18:16:55 it wouldn't be a substantial --
18:16:58 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Mr. Shultz did speak to the
18:17:00 petitioner and they are willing to make the changes.
18:17:02 However, they did request to be heard.
18:17:04 You can certainly let them be heard.
18:17:06 But if they are going to make the changes we recommend
18:17:09 they simply make them and come back in four weeks.
18:17:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's my motion.
18:17:14 Why have three hearings.
18:17:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that came
18:17:17 to speak on item 12?
18:17:18 Anyone came to speak on item 12?
18:17:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is the petitioner present?
18:17:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can you finish this in four weeks?
18:17:27 >>> Yes, it's a fairly simple change.
18:17:28 We just have to change the site plan.
18:17:30 And we would be willing to agree to the continuance to
18:17:33 four weeks.
18:17:33 >>GWEN MILLER: And you will be meeting with the
18:17:36 neighborhood and let them see the plans?
18:17:40 >>> They have not requested.
18:17:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Haven't requested to see it?
18:17:43 >>> No.
18:17:43 It's a fairly simple petition in, my mind, anyway.
18:17:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
18:17:47 We have a motion and second.
18:17:48 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Daytime?
18:17:52 >>CATHERINE COYLE: August 23rd at 10:30 a.m. with
18:17:55 council's waiver of the rules.
18:17:56 I'm not sure if anyone in the audience is present.
18:17:59 Or 6:30 p.m. with no waiver.
18:18:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think it's best to do it in the
18:18:05 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second to continue
18:18:07 to August 23rd, 6 p.m.
18:18:09 All in favor of that motion say Aye.
18:18:11 Opposed, Nay.
18:18:13 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Finally, item number 13, there was
18:18:15 an error in the legal description that was given by
18:18:17 the petitioner.
18:18:18 However, upon staff review, the error was not caught
18:18:22 and the legal description was certified and published.
18:18:24 So we are accepting some culpability in that, and
18:18:28 There is going to need to be a resetting of the
18:18:33 I would ask that council waive the amendment fee and
18:18:35 reset the hearing for September 27th at 6 p.m.
18:18:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that came
18:18:41 to speak on item 13?
18:18:45 >> I second Mrs. Saul-Sena's motion with waiver of the
18:18:47 300 waiver amendment fee.
18:18:49 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second to continue
18:18:51 item 13 to September 27th.
18:18:52 All in favor say Aye, 6 p.m.
18:18:55 Opposed, Nay.
18:18:56 (Motion carried).
18:18:58 >>CATHERINE COYLE: As we go through the hearing, you
18:19:01 can use the agenda I gave you as a guide and with the
18:19:03 options as you move forward to either approve or deny,
18:19:06 can help guide you on those.
18:19:08 >>GWEN MILLER: We go to item number 2.
18:19:10 Need to open 2.
18:19:12 Anyone in the public going to speak on item 2, 3, 6,
18:19:17 9, 10, 11, 13.
18:19:26 Will you please raise your right hand?
18:19:28 No, not 13.
18:19:32 (Oath administered by Clerk).
18:19:37 >>MARTIN SHELBY: A few preliminaries, please.
18:19:39 I where ask that all written communications to
18:19:42 tonight's hearing which have been available for public
18:19:43 inspection in City Council's office be received and
18:19:46 filed in the record.
18:19:48 Mr. Clerk, do you have items to file?
18:19:51 Motion please?
18:19:52 >> So moved.
18:19:54 >> Second.
18:19:54 (Motion carried).
18:19:55 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If any member of council had any
18:19:59 verbal communication with any petitioner, his or her
18:20:02 representative or any member of the public in
18:20:03 connection with any of tonight's hearing, please,
18:20:05 prior to action, disclose the following:
18:20:08 The person or persons, group or entity with whom the
18:20:10 verbal communication occurred, and the substance of
18:20:13 that verbal communication.
18:20:14 Finally, for those who will be testifying during the
18:20:17 hearings, please, I ask when you state your name,
18:20:19 please reaffirm for the record that you have been
18:20:22 I am going to put this little sign up by the lectern
18:20:24 to remind you.
18:20:25 And I thank you for your cooperation.
18:20:30 >>PHIL SCHULZ: Land Development Coordination.
18:20:32 I have been sworn.
18:20:33 Prior to starting item number 2 on your agenda, I
18:20:36 would like to tell the council this will be my last
18:20:40 evening presenting before you.
18:20:41 I have accepted a position in construction services.
18:20:45 I would like to you know that it's been my pleasure
18:20:47 and honor to work with you.
18:20:50 I think that the City of Tampa should be very thankful
18:20:54 to have such dedicated and passionate city elected
18:20:57 officials as you.
18:20:58 And it has indeed been my pleasure to work with you.
18:21:02 Thank you.
18:21:02 >>GWEN MILLER: We are really going to miss you, too.
18:21:05 We enjoyed you.
18:21:07 They say we need to vote on it first, though.
18:21:10 You can't go.
18:21:11 We have to vote on it.
18:21:15 >>> I move to deny.
18:21:16 [ Laughter ]
18:21:17 No overtime.
18:21:23 Ms. Miller, that's a double negative.
18:21:25 He likes us so much he's leaving.
18:21:28 [ Laughter ]
18:21:30 >>> First item on the agenda, item 2, rezoning case Z
18:21:34 07-08, district 4, Ballast Point neighborhood
18:21:38 association located at 3010 West Gandy Boulevard,
18:21:41 Walgreen's company is the tenant on-site.
18:21:45 The development review committee reviewed the petition
18:21:48 and site plan dated 7-6-07 finds it consistent with
18:21:52 all applicable City of Tampa codes.
18:21:54 Current zoning is CG and RS 75.
18:21:58 The special use permit is for a drive-in window.
18:22:02 There are no waivers being requested on this case.
18:22:03 The petitioner is requesting a special use permit to
18:22:06 construct a drive-in window from existing retail
18:22:09 drugstore, Walgreen company.
18:22:11 Existing building is 13500 square feet, and is 30 feet
18:22:16 in height.
18:22:16 The project requires 54 parking spaces and 57 are
18:22:21 The drive-in window will have a 6-foot overhang and
18:22:25 14-foot clearance per the elevations and site plans
18:22:29 you have before you this evening.
18:22:31 Elmo, please.
18:22:33 It's not an Elmo anymore.
18:22:36 It's a wolf-vision.
18:22:38 On the wolf-vision, please note the subject parcel.
18:22:42 Here is Gandy.
18:22:45 This is South MacDill.
18:22:46 This is west Marlin on the south.
18:22:48 And this is south vine on the east.
18:22:52 The drive-through is on the southern side of the
18:22:56 The structure that's on the aerial photo now is no
18:22:58 longer there.
18:23:02 The zoning for the area, again, you see the subject
18:23:06 parcel here.
18:23:08 And you can see that it has a residential area to the
18:23:13 southeast, and the petitioner -- please note on the
18:23:16 site plan there is a ten-foot high masonry wall that's
18:23:19 currently there.
18:23:20 And as part of mitigation, I want to point out from a
18:23:25 previous denial on a grand tree, which is on the north
18:23:28 side, Mary Daniel Bryson and Dave Riley incorporated
18:23:34 into their comments that have also been incorporated
18:23:37 into the site plan, and the tree table, that that
18:23:41 grand tree ha that has an effective removal on that
18:23:45 side, that the petitioner has to replace that on an
18:23:48 inch per inch basis.
18:23:50 Is that correct?
18:23:53 Ms. Daniel has a sore back.
18:23:55 Please don't call on her unless you really have to.
18:23:58 But the site plan in the tree table does indicate the
18:24:02 additional trees that have to be placed on-site as a
18:24:05 result of that.
18:24:08 This is a photograph of the side of the building.
18:24:12 This is approximately where the drive-in window will
18:24:16 be located.
18:24:16 You can see that it was already designed, this sort of
18:24:20 lip right here, I'm not sure if you can see it.
18:24:22 >>GWEN MILLER: We can see it.
18:24:23 >>PHIL SCHULZ: This is looking towards MacDill on
18:24:27 the south side of the building.
18:24:29 This is -- the one I was mention wag RS-75.
18:24:37 This is a commercial use here.
18:24:40 This is the neighbor across the street.
18:24:44 A competitor.
18:24:46 The property on South MacDill, several commercial
18:24:50 This is looking down MacDill.
18:24:53 This is the opposite side.
18:24:54 This is the east side of the property.
18:24:59 These are loading docks.
18:25:00 Please note this was converted to a one-way only at
18:25:04 South MacDill and driving through over to Gandy, an
18:25:08 all-new site plan.
18:25:09 This is the vacant lot to the east of the parcel.
18:25:14 This is the muse next door.
18:25:21 I understand we have a project coming in on some of
18:25:23 this possibly as far as the development project in the
18:25:25 next few months.
18:25:27 This is the trailer park directly across the street on
18:25:30 the north side of Gandy.
18:25:33 This is looking down from on Gandy toward the
18:25:38 intersection of MacDill and Gandy.
18:25:41 And this is the drive-through bank on the opposite
18:25:44 side on the very north this is the grand tree I was
18:25:55 mentioning, been effectively a removal.
18:25:58 Mr. Riley can talk about that.
18:26:00 They have agreed to do that and remove this tree and
18:26:04 replace it on an inch per inch basis throughout the
18:26:06 entire site.
18:26:10 That's my presentation.
18:26:11 If there are any questions, I'll be available for
18:26:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
18:26:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to hear about the
18:26:22 >>> Mr. Wright.
18:26:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: While he's coming up on the tree.
18:26:26 Phil, you guys usually do a good job on reminding us
18:26:30 of the zoning history of a particular project.
18:26:34 And I recall a little bit of zoning history from four
18:26:37 years ago on this site and a request for a
18:26:41 drive-through that was a drive-through in conjunction
18:26:44 with the building that was turned down.
18:26:48 >>> On the back page of my report, the very last page,
18:26:50 the signature page, it was VO 3-67 and the PD petition
18:26:56 which was also denied was ZO-3-68.
18:26:59 That's listed on the very back page of my report,
18:27:01 which I think I gave you three extra copies that -- if
18:27:06 you didn't have one, did I not, tonight so that you
18:27:09 have one to reference?
18:27:12 So it was in the late '60s when that was denied.
18:27:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No, it was more recent than that.
18:27:20 >>PHIL SCHULZ: I'm sorry.
18:27:28 I'm sorry.
18:27:29 Thank you for correcting me.
18:27:30 >> So now we got the date sorted out.
18:27:42 When was that again it was turned down?
18:27:44 >>> They were both denied, yes, sir.
18:27:46 >> But how were they able to build the building?
18:27:49 >>> They built the drugstore on the CG zoning.
18:27:52 Mr. Grandoff is here tonight and probably can give you
18:27:55 more of the history because he was also the agent at
18:27:57 that time when it was denied and then built.
18:28:01 So I think he can give you a little more history on
18:28:03 that than I can, sir.
18:28:05 >> It came in as a PD with the drive-through, and this
18:28:08 counsel or the prior council turned down the
18:28:11 >>> In 2003, that's correct.
18:28:13 >> And then they built it without the drive through at
18:28:15 the CG?
18:28:16 >>> Yes.
18:28:16 And I think Mr. Riley was here at that time and he can
18:28:19 address the issue on the grand tree.
18:28:27 >>> Dave Riley, parks and recreation.
18:28:29 I have been sworn.
18:28:31 We, when this started back in the original petition,
18:28:35 we did evaluate the tree.
18:28:39 The curious thing about the tree was that it's been
18:28:41 there for a long time.
18:28:43 But it wasn't growing, wasn't getting any bigger.
18:28:46 Prior to the petition, we had requested then to do a
18:28:50 root excavation, which they did.
18:28:53 I then went out and inspected that.
18:28:56 And one of the things that I was really surprised
18:28:58 about is they had gone down approximately two feet,
18:29:01 over two feet, and did not hit any roots at that time.
18:29:07 And that might have been from prior to construction
18:29:12 done on that site.
18:29:13 But the simple fact of the matter was there was no
18:29:16 roots down there.
18:29:17 And I thought, well, they may have been a little
18:29:23 But a lot of times what will happen is a tree can live
18:29:26 off its sustained energy that's stored in large limbs,
18:29:30 and that's what I'm saying, it wasn't growing, the
18:29:32 tree had 20 years that I was in Tampa, I have seen
18:29:36 that tree and it never got bigger but it never got
18:29:39 It just kind of stayed.
18:29:41 And at that time we had doubts that this tree was
18:29:44 going to survive, because of the amount of fill that
18:29:47 was being put in.
18:29:49 We did ask for positive drainage out of the tree well,
18:29:52 and they actually increased the area that was around
18:29:58 the tree.
18:29:58 But I think just the fact that he came in and got that
18:30:03 that occurred, it started declining, and then over the
18:30:07 past few years it's down to the point now where it's
18:30:12 So we are at the point now where we feel the tree does
18:30:15 need to be removed.
18:30:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
18:30:20 Thank you.
18:30:21 Planning Commission.
18:30:27 >>TONY GARCIA: Planning Commission staff.
18:30:29 I have been sworn in.
18:30:33 I'm going to be here awhile longer than Mr. Shultz so
18:30:38 you're stuck with me a little longer.
18:30:50 Regarding future land use categories, there's two
18:30:52 predominant land use categories, community mixed use
18:30:56 35 which allows commercial serving uses and of course
18:30:58 residential 10.
18:31:02 Mr. Shultz, as you stated, Mr. Dingfelder, did do a
18:31:05 very good job describing the contexts of the area.
18:31:09 You will recall this was at one time a strip center,
18:31:12 and Mr. Shultz was correct they were able to go ahead
18:31:15 and construct eventually the current Walgreen's on the
18:31:19 site, understood the CG that currently exists there
18:31:24 under the existing zoning.
18:31:27 I believe the owner of the strip had a lot of
18:31:29 opposition actually from the people that had
18:31:33 restriction that is came up that were in opposition so
18:31:37 what happened I think those leases eventually ran out
18:31:40 and once they occurred they were able to go ahead and
18:31:42 demolish the script and subsequently construct the
18:31:44 Walgreen's that you see there today.
18:31:48 As we go into context of the area, Gandy is a major
18:31:52 southern arterial, east-west arterial, that is
18:31:58 inhabited quite a bit by a lot of CG uses as you have
18:32:01 already heard from Mr. Shultz about another similar
18:32:03 type of use directly to the west, the ABC liquor over
18:32:07 here, of course the bank, several other CG uses that
18:32:10 are in the area.
18:32:11 One thing he didn't mention, of course, is the
18:32:17 barbecue to the east.
18:32:19 Got to get that into the equation.
18:32:21 As far as a request for the drive-through itself,
18:32:25 looking at it, if you take a close look at the aerial,
18:32:28 which I, did it does have a split land use designation
18:32:31 as a tiny piece of R-10 in the back but doesn't stop
18:32:35 the queuing of the drive-through.
18:32:38 Also if you notice there is a commercial use directly
18:32:40 to the south of this site and a parcel directly to the
18:32:43 There is one residence here far up, close to Merlin
18:32:48 Avenue, so residential uses -- there are no
18:32:52 residential uses directly impacted.
18:32:55 Planning Commission staff had no objections to the
18:32:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: When we have a situation like this
18:33:03 where we have a commercial use that's adjacent to a
18:33:05 residential use, to we look at two things, the sound
18:33:09 of the speakers of people going through the
18:33:11 drive-through and the lights that are going to be
18:33:16 projected, and how that might adversely impact the
18:33:20 residents to the south?
18:33:21 Did you consider that?
18:33:24 >>> Yes, ma'am, we did.
18:33:25 One of the special use criterion is it has to be 50
18:33:28 feet away from any residential and if you please refer
18:33:31 to the site plan it is more than 50 feet away as
18:33:34 required by city code.
18:33:36 And also the lights that are there now are already
18:33:40 They are existing lights that meet code in that
18:33:48 >> How about the audio?
18:33:49 J the 50 feet and the wall and the additional
18:33:52 landscaping is an effort to muffle that, and they have
18:33:56 agreed to put in the additional trees to increase
18:34:00 that, to buffer barrier and the muffling.
18:34:03 >> So much of this site is hardscaped.
18:34:06 Where are they going to put all these trees?
18:34:09 >>> Oh, actually, no.
18:34:10 If you please look at the drawing, there is a very
18:34:14 large landscape buffer on both the south and the east
18:34:21 of that parcel that has not been fully utilized.
18:34:25 And as part of the mitigation -- and Mary can address
18:34:30 that -- they have to put in substantially more trees
18:34:33 than what they would have, because of the inch for
18:34:36 inch replacement on the grand tree.
18:34:38 >>MARY MULHERN: I had a question.
18:34:42 I don't see in any of my packets the paperwork from
18:34:47 that four years ago zoning.
18:34:49 Does anybody else have it?
18:35:02 It was denied.
18:35:04 Very last page of my staff report.
18:35:06 Just above my signature.
18:35:12 It's the staff report.
18:35:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't see it on mine either.
18:35:31 >>MARY MULHERN: But we don't know why it was denied?
18:35:34 >>CHAIRMAN: Do you want to tell us?
18:35:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It was denied because there was a
18:35:38 lot of public concern about the tree, which is a
18:35:42 landmark, the grand tree on Gandy.
18:35:45 And the pit barbecue was there and really loved it and
18:35:51 didn't want to see it leave.
18:35:53 And there are other reasons like he had residential
18:35:55 immediately to the south.
18:35:56 And this was going to have -- the neighbors thought it
18:36:01 would have a much greater negative impact on them.
18:36:05 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a question about the tree
18:36:07 I'm sorry.
18:36:17 Does the decline of that tree, which you said had been
18:36:21 surviving for 20 years, did that happen after it was
18:36:24 surrounded, or after the building was built?
18:36:31 >>> That's correct.
18:36:32 I believe part of what the problem ended up being is
18:36:35 the drainage that they put on this site is under the
18:36:40 driveway, which is higher than what was existing out
18:36:44 And typically when we do a well, we try to have a
18:36:49 positive flow for the water to drain out of that well.
18:36:52 And I think in this case, that did not work as
18:36:56 effectively as we had hoped it would.
18:36:58 And I do believe part of the problem was water sitting
18:37:01 in there longer than expected.
18:37:05 But again, I think the tree had problems going into
18:37:08 Yes, I do believe that was a major contributor.
18:37:11 >>MARY MULHERN: Thanks.
18:37:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Petition every?
18:37:15 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: Good evening.
18:37:20 My name is John Grandoff.
18:37:21 I have been sworn.
18:37:23 My address is suite 3700 Bank of America Plaza.
18:37:27 And I represent HUFF retail and Walgreen's
18:37:33 This afternoon I'm joined by Andrea huff of huff
18:37:39 retail, C.hill, manager, McGovern, the store manager
18:37:45 of the store, and Lori Dell Acasti, store manager of
18:37:51 the store.
18:37:52 You are familiar with the location of the property.
18:37:54 The property has always been zoned CG so there's been
18:37:57 an inherent right to build a commercial drugstore
18:38:00 The reason why we came four years ago was that the
18:38:04 City Council regulates the drive-through special
18:38:06 the -- through the special use process.
18:38:09 There are three criteria to have a drive-through under
18:38:12 the city code.
18:38:12 Number one, you must have direct access to arterial or
18:38:16 collector that is satisfied by MacDill Avenue and
18:38:18 Gandy Boulevard.
18:38:19 Number two, you must have adequate space within the
18:38:22 queuing lane for vehicles to stack on the property so
18:38:26 they do not disturb property on MacDill or Gandy.
18:38:29 We meet that requirement as evidenced by the staff
18:38:33 Number three, both the queuing lane and drive-in
18:38:36 window must be 50 feet by any residential use of
18:38:41 We meet that criteria by plus 50 feet as evidenced by
18:38:44 the site plan.
18:38:46 Furthermore, we have some history on the tree.
18:38:52 In the application four years ago, first we filed a
18:38:55 special use.
18:38:55 That was denied.
18:38:56 We came back on a PD. That was denied.
18:38:58 And those two applications we brought in expert
18:39:02 testimony asking to remove the tree because of its
18:39:05 advanced stage of decline. The tree had H been there
18:39:08 for many years when this was a strip center, had been
18:39:11 paved over very closely so the tree was on its last
18:39:13 legs, so to speak.
18:39:15 City Council, as part of that process, said please do
18:39:18 not remove the tree.
18:39:19 We agreed to build around it, as you have noted, on
18:39:22 the site plan.
18:39:23 As we were attempting to draw the particular
18:39:27 occupancy, my client was asked, do not remove the
18:39:31 We elected to continue to save the tree because we
18:39:33 were practically finished with the project.
18:39:35 Now, four years later, the tree is pretty much an
18:39:38 effective removal as evidenced by Mr. Riley's
18:39:41 We have agreed under the city code to remove the tree
18:39:44 and replace the tree inch for inch, plus two inches.
18:39:49 The tree is 68 inches caliper.
18:39:51 We are going to replace it with 70 inches caliper, one
18:39:54 ten-inch tree is going to go where this tree was
18:39:57 The remaining 60 inches of tree will be distributed
18:40:01 and 60 ten-inch trees across the balance of the
18:40:04 As you noted in the photography that Mr. Shultz
18:40:07 provided for you -- this is a very good photograph on
18:40:12 the left here.
18:40:12 You will see the expansive area that we have to
18:40:16 provide the replacement trees.
18:40:21 In this neighborhood, there is a drive-in across the
18:40:23 street for the CVS.
18:40:25 There is a drive-in across the street for the first
18:40:28 commercial bank.
18:40:29 Ironically there was a drive-in on the existing strip
18:40:32 center that was there before the Walgreen's was built,
18:40:37 albeit illegal driveway and drive-through.
18:40:40 It was going opposing traffic on Gandy, but
18:40:42 nonetheless it was there even though illegal.
18:40:46 We have met all the Cee criteria under the code.
18:40:50 A drive-through is a very common concept in pharmacy
18:40:55 business and restaurant business.
18:40:57 I'll offer to you that it assists the elderly greatly
18:41:02 to pick up their prescriptions through a drive-through
18:41:04 rather than coming out of their car, and certainly
18:41:08 assists folks that has a carload of kids or other
18:41:10 things that they are trying to deal with from coming
18:41:12 out of the car.
18:41:13 And finally, it conserves parking spaces because that
18:41:16 is one less car that has to take up a parking space
18:41:19 and it gets many cars off of MacDill and Gandy
18:41:23 promptly and it moves the site efficiently as they are
18:41:27 doing at CVS and as they are doing at the first
18:41:31 commercial bank.
18:41:32 When we were here on the last project, last
18:41:35 application, all of the neighbors behind the project
18:41:39 were in support of the project.
18:41:41 We have now received -- have not received any
18:41:43 opposition on this project.
18:41:44 I would request that your approval be given tonight,
18:41:47 and that we reserve any further comments for rebuttal
18:41:51 as necessary.
18:41:52 Thank you very much.
18:41:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
18:41:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Grandoff, we have a letter that
18:41:59 I'm sure is in the clerk's file from Ballast Point
18:42:02 neighborhood association opposing this, and I'm sure
18:42:08 Ms. Flynn is here as president and I'm sure she'll
18:42:11 speak to it.
18:42:12 But you say you have no opposition to this.
18:42:13 Did you go speak with them?
18:42:15 >>> No, I did not.
18:42:17 I don't have the letter.
18:42:18 I notified them as required under the city code and
18:42:21 provided the site plan number and they were advised of
18:42:25 the application.
18:42:25 I have -- can I read it, please?
18:42:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Sure.
18:42:30 In the file.
18:42:30 You are welcome to my copy.
18:42:37 You didn't approach the neighborhood association and
18:42:38 ask to come talk to them?
18:42:40 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: No.
18:42:44 May I also offer that the zoning department has found
18:42:48 that all criteria everybody met, that no waivers have
18:42:51 been requested, and the Planning Commission finds the
18:42:54 application consistent with the comprehensive plan,
18:42:57 and that there are no other requirements to make this
18:43:01 complete application before you.
18:43:03 If I can have a moment to read this letter first
18:43:06 before I relinquish my time.
18:43:24 I'll respond to the letter on rebuttal as necessary.
18:43:27 >>MARY MULHERN: I just have a quick question.
18:43:30 Was the CVS there before the Walgreen's was built?
18:43:34 >>> Yes, it was.
18:43:35 >>MARY MULHERN: And it had a drive-through when it was
18:43:38 initially built?
18:43:39 >>> Yes, it did.
18:43:39 And the first commercial bank was approved about a
18:43:42 month later.
18:43:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Any other questions, council members?
18:43:45 Is there anyone in the public that wants to speak on
18:43:48 item number 2?
18:44:00 All right.
18:44:02 >>> 15256 Interbay Boulevard.
18:44:05 I have been sworn.
18:44:09 When this drive-through -- first of all, we opposed
18:44:12 the original plans for the Walgreen's, which was a
18:44:15 much larger store, because it was an intensification
18:44:19 of use.
18:44:21 There are eleven pharmacies within a two-mile radius.
18:44:24 And nobody in the neighborhood wanted another one.
18:44:28 We liked our little neighborhood serving businesses.
18:44:30 So they built a smaller Walgreen's.
18:44:34 When they came before you for the drive-through, we
18:44:37 opposed that, because we thought it was an
18:44:40 intensification of use, and council agreed with us,
18:44:43 that Gandy east of MacDill Avenue is more
18:44:47 residential, quieter, it's a different animal than
18:44:51 west of MacDill Avenue.
18:44:55 And the CVS was already there.
18:44:59 The bank across the street is not in our neighborhood.
18:45:03 We also opposed that drive-through, everyone though
18:45:05 it's not in our neighborhood.
18:45:07 The south side of Gandy is the border of our
18:45:12 And our board is adamant that they don't want any
18:45:17 intensification of use, they want neighborhood serving
18:45:21 businesses and residential so it maintains the
18:45:23 character that we said we want to maintain in our
18:45:26 neighborhood plan.
18:45:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So what you're saying is that your
18:45:34 neighborhood is south of Gandy and east of
18:45:37 MacDill, and there are no other drive-throughs in
18:45:40 your quadrant?
18:45:42 >>> That's correct.
18:45:42 I don't believe there's any drive-throughs in our
18:45:45 >> I can't think of any.
18:45:47 So all the other drive-throughs are to the west or to
18:45:51 the north.
18:45:52 >>> CVS is to the west of the neighborhood and the
18:45:56 drive-through is on the west side of the store.
18:45:58 The bank across the street is in Bayshore Beautiful
18:46:01 neighborhood, not ours.
18:46:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did you say you were sworn, for the
18:46:06 I didn't hear.
18:46:07 >>> Yes.
18:46:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: One other question.
18:46:11 You mentioned your neighborhood plan.
18:46:15 When was that adopted, and how did the neighborhood
18:46:19 plan speak to these kind of issues?
18:46:24 >>> I gave at quick look.
18:46:26 It's really so that we want to maintain the
18:46:30 residential character of our neighborhood with
18:46:32 neighborhood-serving businesses on the periphery.
18:46:37 And when did council adopt it?
18:46:41 It's been four or five years, I'm sure.
18:46:46 >>CHAIRMAN: Would anyone else like to speak?
18:46:48 Mr. Grandoff, you may come rebuttal.
18:46:53 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: The neighborhood plan is not within
18:47:00 the criteria for approval of a special use permit.
18:47:03 The criteria is clearly the special use criteria under
18:47:06 chapter 27-272 tanned comprehensive plan.
18:47:11 We met that burden.
18:47:14 For what it's worth, the bank across the street backs
18:47:17 up to a residential district.
18:47:20 The CVS has a residential district behind it.
18:47:26 I don't know how you can just say we are an
18:47:28 intensification of the use.
18:47:29 The store is existing there.
18:47:31 There's no evidence that this is an intensification of
18:47:33 We are not asking to add on to another shopping floor
18:47:36 or go up to a second story or anything of that matter.
18:47:40 I don't understand it.
18:47:43 We are merely opening a hole in a wall.
18:47:49 Pharmacist is going to be there. The pharmacist is
18:47:51 going to take the order from a car that's coming
18:47:54 through an existing lane.
18:47:59 It's existing from an existing one-way out to Gandy.
18:48:02 Not to Marlin, to Gandy.
18:48:04 There's only one way out.
18:48:05 It's got to be to Gandy.
18:48:07 You have to take a right turn.
18:48:10 Pharmacist is going to come back.
18:48:11 When the customer comes back, I submit to you an
18:48:14 elderly customer, or customer that can't afford to or
18:48:17 physically get into the store, is going to reach
18:48:20 through the window, and take the prescription.
18:48:23 They'll take a prescription, like normal commercial
18:48:26 transaction, going to leave again.
18:48:30 You are going to force that customer to now come and
18:48:34 park and go in and do the same transaction?
18:48:37 I don't U understand how that's intensification of
18:48:45 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Sir, the window, what side is
18:48:47 that going to be on?
18:48:49 >>> The south side.
18:48:50 >> And you're 100 feet from residential?
18:48:53 >>> Well, this is more than 100 feet.
18:48:57 We are 50, 60, 70, 80 feet away depending on what
18:49:01 point you measure from the window.
18:49:05 We took several measures.
18:49:06 >> I use a Walgreen's up in the New Tampa area.
18:49:10 As far as the noise going, the noise is very minimal,
18:49:14 when they are speaking at that window.
18:49:16 And if there is any noise it's going to be buffered by
18:49:18 the sign in front of that window.
18:49:26 I would support. This I think it's a positive thing
18:49:28 for the area and I think it's needed.
18:49:31 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: Thank you.
18:49:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have a couple questions.
18:49:36 You indicated -- how long has the story operated
18:49:39 without the drive-through?
18:49:42 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: Let me ask Andrew.
18:49:47 A year, 15 months, give or take.
18:49:51 >> Okay.
18:49:51 And if the neighborhood needs to go to a drive-through
18:49:55 pharmacy window, they can do it right across the
18:49:57 street today, correct?
18:50:01 At CVS.
18:50:04 >> Depends on what insurance you have.
18:50:09 >>> If they want to go to a different bank.
18:50:11 What's the relevance of that?
18:50:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: My question.
18:50:13 I think it calls for a yes or no answer.
18:50:16 >>> Yes.
18:50:18 >> Okay.
18:50:18 You mentioned that all that Walgreen's needs to do now
18:50:22 is open up a whole in the wall.
18:50:27 What do you mean by that?
18:50:31 I saw in the presentation, there's already -- I saw it
18:50:38 in the presentation, Mr. Grandoff.
18:50:39 There's already a little dip in the concrete.
18:50:44 >>> Let me find the photograph there.
18:50:57 >> So what's on the inside?
18:50:59 Is it already ready to go?
18:51:01 >>> Let me the store manager answer that question for
18:51:07 >> So, in other words, the store was built to say,
18:51:10 we'll come back in a couple years and get this
18:51:12 drive-through approved and use it.
18:51:15 Is that correct, sir?
18:51:18 >>> Yes.
18:51:18 >> Thank you.
18:51:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I guess the question that I want
18:51:22 to raise is, what is the impact, what is the negative
18:51:28 impact to the community for having this drive-through?
18:51:31 And I guess that's a rhetorical question.
18:51:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ask her.
18:51:39 She's the neighborhood president.
18:51:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I guess she addressed it but they are
18:51:43 so far away and they are coming out on Gandy, and this
18:51:46 general connect.
18:51:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Enters on MacDill and comes out
18:51:53 on Gandy.
18:51:56 >>> There's also on Gandy.
18:51:59 You can come in MacDill or Gandy.
18:52:01 It would be a right in --
18:52:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Come to the store and the drive-in
18:52:06 window, to the drive-in.
18:52:09 You come off of MacDill.
18:52:12 Going inside the store.
18:52:13 You go through MacDill, too?
18:52:16 >>> Yes, pretty sure.
18:52:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: He's already doing that.
18:52:22 I guess, though, what I'm hearing is the distance from
18:52:25 the neighborhood is over 100 feet, approximately.
18:52:31 >> Take a look.
18:52:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I have it here.
18:52:34 That's the distance.
18:52:36 Secondly, I go to Walgreen's.
18:52:39 I don't like CVS.
18:52:44 [ Laughter ]
18:52:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm going to object to relevance.
18:52:45 [ Laughter ]
18:52:50 >>> No objection at all.
18:52:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It's my obligation to sure --
18:52:58 >> Competent, substantial evidence.
18:53:02 >> When I go to Walgreen's, I use the drive-through.
18:53:05 I love a drive-through than go inside.
18:53:10 Most all the time you go inside you have a longer
18:53:14 And also I'm thinking about the elderly, those who
18:53:20 have handicapped issues, or it's easier for them to
18:53:24 drive through and pick up their prescription.
18:53:27 But I guess I still want to raise the question, what
18:53:31 is the negative impact in terms of the community?
18:53:35 I haven't heard that yet.
18:53:37 And that's what I'm waiting to hear.
18:53:42 >>> Let me clarify my answer, can you go to CVS?
18:53:46 I talked to my client's representatives.
18:53:49 Some health plans requires Walgreen's to be the
18:53:51 pharmacy of choice, as some require CVS.
18:53:55 Some people do not have a choice.
18:53:56 They must go to Walgreen's or CVS.
18:54:03 >> Sweetbay.
18:54:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Miranda has a question.
18:54:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Don't take anything what Mr. Scott
18:54:11 said when he's talk looking at me talking about the
18:54:15 elderly person.
18:54:15 Some people see beauty in aging.
18:54:19 [ Laughter ]
18:54:19 But that being said, I shop at CVS.
18:54:24 [ Laughter ]
18:54:30 Rose Ferlita closed her store where I used to do my
18:54:33 drugs at Ferlita pharmacies and everybody went to CVS.
18:54:38 I don't use the drive-through because I go in looking
18:54:41 for bargains.
18:54:44 [ Laughter ]
18:54:45 If a prescription cost me $25, I come out costing me
18:54:49 That's not a bargain.
18:54:50 But it's not here or there.
18:54:52 It's whether it's good zoning or bad zoning and that's
18:54:55 what it's about.
18:54:58 I may need his vote later on.
18:55:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a staff question.
18:55:04 If staff could come back and put the aerial on.
18:55:12 This aerial.
18:55:13 If you all look at Gandy Boulevard, you can see that
18:55:16 the commercial depth -- and you look at the houses on
18:55:21 Marlin Avenue -- most of the houses on Marlin Avenue
18:55:25 go halfway up the block.
18:55:27 I don't know what the depth is.
18:55:30 If you look at this particular site, it goes further
18:55:36 to the south.
18:55:38 It's closer to the residential uses than the rest of
18:55:41 the uses on Gandy.
18:55:42 And if you look, there's a house whose backyard backs
18:55:46 up to this immediately, and another house whose
18:55:49 backyard backs up to it immediately.
18:55:51 And I think that what we are hearing from the
18:55:54 neighborhood is, they want to lessen the commercial
18:55:58 impact on their residential uses.
18:56:01 And I think when this had come to us before, what they
18:56:05 were doing was lowering the -- you know, increasing
18:56:11 the depth of the commercial property.
18:56:13 So my question is for staff, if they were to not have
18:56:19 this drive-through would they still be required to
18:56:21 replace the grand tree that was their entrance?
18:56:32 >>> I do want to respond before David.
18:56:34 If you look at the aerial photos that I have provided
18:56:37 you, you see a row of cars here.
18:56:42 That's this point right here.
18:56:45 This is a parking lot right here.
18:56:47 The house we are talking about, back in here, then
18:56:53 there's a house back in here, to the best of my
18:56:57 knowledge, in looking and evaluating the site, and you
18:57:05 can see a little better, I think, on this blown-up
18:57:09 version, the commercial use that's back farther over
18:57:13 to here raised the window here.
18:57:16 If you see this line here, that's where we have -- we
18:57:29 have residential uses in this area.
18:57:31 So perpendicular to the window is really the extension
18:57:35 of the CG zone.
18:57:37 And they have parking.
18:57:40 This particular use has parking in the back there that
18:57:43 is in an RS-75 zone, or I believe a special use
18:57:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just as a follow-up.
18:57:52 Did you say earlier that you are more than 100 feet
18:57:56 >>> No.
18:57:57 If you look at the site plan it's a little over 52.5
18:58:00 feet from the window to the closest residential use.
18:58:15 >>GWEN MILLER: He's leaving.
18:58:19 >> Made a rookie mistake.
18:58:25 >>> If you will look at the dimensions from this
18:58:29 corner, it's 56.91 to this point where it's RS-75.
18:58:36 And from this point, just at the overhang, here's the
18:58:41 You go from this point of the overhang, this 55.36.
18:58:47 If you go right from the window itself it's 65.5.
18:58:54 >>> Thank you.
18:58:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Mulhern?
18:58:58 >>> Dave Riley, parks and recreation.
18:59:00 Your question was, would they have to replace the tree
18:59:04 whether this goes through or not?
18:59:06 Yes, in this particular case, they would, because the
18:59:08 tree was required to be saved as part of the original
18:59:12 However, if this was not part of the PD and we did a
18:59:19 evaluation and found it to be hazardous, we would have
18:59:21 reduced or replacements to four two-inch trees.
18:59:26 Because this was part of the PD, they are obligated to
18:59:30 do inch for inch.
18:59:33 >>MARY MULHERN: I wanted to say that I think the
18:59:39 negative impact to the neighborhood happened a long
18:59:42 time ago and it's kind of had top see that because of
18:59:46 the way our zoning works that our neighborhood that
18:59:50 used to be a neighborhood and pastoral.
18:59:54 Can you imagine?
18:59:55 Now has two competing big-box pharmacies across the
19:00:00 street from each other, and maybe we can weigh which
19:00:05 one is going to go out of business and maybe the
19:00:07 neighborhood can hope there will be some local
19:00:09 business put in there.
19:00:10 But I just think that it's kind of sad, and we lost
19:00:15 this grand tree after this, and I saw this happen in
19:00:22 my neighborhood, and a fruit stand, and now it has
19:00:30 blockbuster and CVS.
19:00:33 So this is happening all over, and we should keep this
19:00:39 in mind as we approve these zonings.
19:00:42 You can see it's a Domino effect and that's what's
19:00:46 going to happen if we let the character of our nice
19:00:53 little neighborhoods change.
19:00:55 >> Move to close.
19:00:56 >> Second.
19:00:56 (Motion carried).
19:00:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
19:01:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Madam Chair.
19:01:03 I've got a couple of problems with this proposal.
19:01:09 First off, and most importantly are the issues that
19:01:14 the neighborhood association brought to us, that the
19:01:16 drive-through, any drive-through is an intensification
19:01:19 of use, because you have got cars through and idling
19:01:24 and lining up and you probably encourage more people,
19:01:27 you know, to come out and to perhaps, you know,
19:01:35 strolling over a couple of blocks walk because they
19:01:38 can use the drive-through.
19:01:40 I think there's numerous reasons.
19:01:43 Ms. Flynn testified about her neighborhood plan.
19:01:45 I don't know why we adopt neighborhood plans if they
19:01:47 are going to be meaningless.
19:01:49 You know, we encourage -- we work with that
19:01:52 neighborhood for a year or two.
19:01:54 Perhaps to facilitate their adoption of a neighborhood
19:01:58 And MacDill Avenue is not Gandy Boulevard.
19:02:02 MacDill Avenue, especially along that stretch,
19:02:05 does get more and more serene.
19:02:07 It actually has new residential being built right
19:02:10 there three or four blocks down in multifamily
19:02:15 MacDill so it's a different character.
19:02:17 MacDill Avenue along there is two lanes.
19:02:20 Just when you get past this intersection. Anyway, I
19:02:25 think it is inconsistent with the neighborhood plan.
19:02:28 And I think that is relevant.
19:02:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Dingfelder, I'm sorry to
19:02:34 interrupt but I am going to ask the hearing be
19:02:36 reopened because I would like to have the tree
19:02:38 specialist clarify his remarks, just because I'm
19:02:41 concerned with regard to what he put into the record.
19:02:45 >> Move to reopen.
19:02:46 >> Second.
19:02:50 >> It's unusual, Mr. Shelby.
19:02:51 We never had the attorney tell us.
19:02:54 >>CHAIRMAN: That's why we have him.
19:02:57 >>> Dave Riley, parks and recreation.
19:03:02 I misspoke.
19:03:03 I'm getting up there with Mr. Miranda.
19:03:05 [ Laughter ]
19:03:06 I had mentioned that this was part of a PD and I have
19:03:10 been informed that in fact that was wrong.
19:03:13 However, we are still getting -- the construction
19:03:19 contributed to the demise of the tree, which caused it
19:03:22 to be hazardous.
19:03:23 So, therefore, we got insurance replacement for that
19:03:27 I apologize.
19:03:30 >> I would like to close.
19:03:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to close.
19:03:33 (Motion carried).
19:03:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Anyway, here's the other part of
19:03:36 the problem I have with this.
19:03:37 And this is called the hole in the wall theory, okay?
19:03:43 They come in the first time with a special use and it
19:03:46 got turned down, in part because of drive-through.
19:03:50 And in part because of the drive-through.
19:03:55 There are other reasons, granted.
19:03:57 They came in the next time, now, with the PD and it
19:04:00 still had the drive-through and it got turned down.
19:04:02 The bottom line is, this is the third bite at the
19:04:06 What is the message here?
19:04:07 The message basically is it's very clear, okay?
19:04:10 They built that store.
19:04:11 There's testimony on the record they built that store
19:04:14 just banking on the fact that we'll just wait two more
19:04:17 years or three more years until there's a new council
19:04:20 and we'll just circle back and do it.
19:04:22 We'll just circle back and we'll bide our time, we cut
19:04:26 the hole in it, we cut the hole in the wall, we put a
19:04:29 little plaster up, you know, the city is stupid, they
19:04:32 won't remember.
19:04:34 You know, that's the bottom line.
19:04:37 You know, I think it's an extremely odd approach to
19:04:42 take and why should we go down that road?
19:04:44 There's competent, substantial reason to turn it down
19:04:48 twice, three years ago, twice, three years ago, and
19:04:50 there's still competent, substantial evidence from Ms.
19:04:53 Flynn and her neighborhood association to turn it down
19:04:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
19:05:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I believe it's inconsistent for
19:05:02 purposes of the record.
19:05:02 I believe it's inconsistent with section 27-272
19:05:05 regarding special uses.
19:05:06 I believe it doesn't meet the general standards of
19:05:11 Based upon the record testimony that's been in front
19:05:13 of us.
19:05:14 We shouldn't allow them to come in and wear down the
19:05:17 neighborhood and come back for a third bite at the
19:05:20 apple and wear down council and come back for a third
19:05:24 bite of the apple.
19:05:25 Regardless of all of that, it's still not an
19:05:27 appropriate use at that location.
19:05:28 This neighborhood needs to be protected.
19:05:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair.
19:05:33 Let me just say that I know that my good friend
19:05:35 councilman John Dingfelder, that was the nice part.
19:05:39 Here comes the other part.
19:05:42 Made reference to the old council being smart in a
19:05:47 nice way and that the new council is stupid.
19:05:50 I know he didn't mean that.
19:05:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I didn't mean that.
19:05:53 >> That's why you don't see me upset.
19:05:55 I'm smiling.
19:05:56 However, when a petition meets every part of the code,
19:06:02 as was presented by the evidence that we heard today,
19:06:05 and the city, I hope, will make reference to that, I
19:06:08 would never vote when I thought there was a detriment
19:06:12 to a neighborhood.
19:06:14 55 feet away, the closest.
19:06:17 And if you look from the window, that's the canopy
19:06:20 from the window to that 65 feet, and the canopy over,
19:06:24 that means that any noise, or some of the noise will
19:06:26 bounce off the canopy is not going to go out.
19:06:29 It's going to go down.
19:06:30 And a ten foot wall, if I remember, with new trees
19:06:33 planted, if I recall, I feel just the opposite of my
19:06:39 two colleagues that have just spoken.
19:06:42 The first and the second.
19:06:43 I have nothing against them.
19:06:45 I feel that if somebody does it with the intent, I
19:06:51 can't blame them for that.
19:06:52 I can tell you things that were done in the City of
19:06:54 Tampa that I knew were going to happen when they ram
19:06:58 rodded through that cost a lot more money and a lot
19:07:01 more harm than a drive-in window.
19:07:03 It's incumbent upon us to vote -- my feeling is on
19:07:07 this vote, unless the attorney for the city tells me
19:07:12 that it does not meet the requirements of chapter 27
19:07:16 as presented evidence placed before us just earlier.
19:07:21 Then I'll vote against the petition.
19:07:23 But if it meets all the criteria, and it has, to my
19:07:27 knowledge, for myself, not for other council members,
19:07:31 no harmful effect, first of all he doesn't have a
19:07:34 left-hand turn into MacDill.
19:07:37 You can go in from MacDill and into Gandy.
19:07:39 Then you have to travel, if you go Gandy you have to
19:07:41 travel south to the store, go east and then go out
19:07:47 through the back of where the barbecue place was that
19:07:52 was in the northeast corner of the property.
19:07:57 I guarantee you, there were more trips per day on that
19:07:59 strip mall that was there now, because I used to go
19:08:03 there quite often, and I used to tell my wife it was a
19:08:10 SONNY's, but I just feel that it's the right thing to
19:08:17 But I don't have any stock in Walgreen's, let me say
19:08:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And I concur with that, Mr. Miranda.
19:08:27 First no staff objection.
19:08:32 Secondly in terms of neighborhood planning.
19:08:35 When it went against the neighborhood plan the staff
19:08:37 should have put that in their information to us.
19:08:41 There is none of that reflected at all whatsoever.
19:08:44 So I don't know where that come from, okay?
19:08:46 And then I don't want to be redundant.
19:08:53 Mr. Miranda pointed out from the window, only talking
19:08:56 about from the window, that's pretty much there pretty
19:09:02 Also let me tell you something.
19:09:04 When I built my house, at the time I didn't have the
19:09:07 money to do some things but I went ahead and had some
19:09:09 things done so I could extend it.
19:09:12 That way, you save.
19:09:13 You save when you come back later.
19:09:15 So it's not because they -- sometimes the cost is
19:09:21 feasible, and it's easier to go ahead and do it now
19:09:27 than come back later, and you say in terms of the
19:09:31 >>GWEN MILLER: You want to say something?
19:09:36 >>> Donna Wysong, assistant city attorney.
19:09:38 I just want to tell you before you vote tonight all
19:09:40 the testimony that you heard about the grand tree,
19:09:42 that testimony is not relevant for the petition that's
19:09:44 before you tonight.
19:09:48 That pertains top a petition that happened several
19:09:50 years ago, and the petitioner is mitigating that,
19:09:57 doing what they have to do for that.
19:10:00 And that is not relevant for the petition that's
19:10:02 before you tonight. This is new business.
19:10:04 That's old business.
19:10:05 So all of that testimony is not relevant.
19:10:08 So you should disregard that with regard to this
19:10:13 As to what you have heard tonight and the evidence
19:10:15 that's before you tonight, your staff has determined
19:10:18 that they had no objections.
19:10:21 So that's all I want to say.
19:10:24 And as far as Mr. Dingfelder's motion, before you vote
19:10:27 on that, you did state that you have -- your motion
19:10:32 was based on section 27-269.
19:10:35 If you could just state with more specificity what
19:10:41 subsection that you are basing your motion on.
19:10:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Sure.
19:10:44 And I appreciate the opportunity specifically -- well,
19:10:48 generally, if you look at the staff report that's
19:10:50 printed out 27-269, provision that A-1 speaks to the
19:10:54 general public, health, safeties and welfare, and I
19:10:57 believe that's spoken to by Ms. Flynn as well as by
19:10:59 the neighborhood association.
19:11:02 But more specifically, on paragraph sub5, 27-269-A-5,
19:11:12 on the second page, it says the use will not establish
19:11:14 a precedent or encourage more intensive or compatible
19:11:17 uses in the surrounding area.
19:11:21 Staff obviously disagreed.
19:11:22 But I believe the testimony supports a denial on that
19:11:27 This does encourage more and more trees up and down
19:11:31 Gandy Boulevard.
19:11:31 There was a Walgreen's up at the corner of Himes and
19:11:34 they closed it down so they could build this one four
19:11:37 blocks away.
19:11:37 The bottom line is, this project in my opinion does
19:11:46 not meet that provision, because it increases
19:11:49 precedent, and more intensive and incompatible uses in
19:11:53 the surrounding area, that based upon the testimony of
19:11:55 the neighborhood association.
19:11:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Mulhern?
19:11:59 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to say that I agree with
19:12:01 John on that, and I also would like to clarify, if
19:12:06 this is inconsistent with the neighborhood plan,
19:12:10 shouldn't we be taking that into consideration?
19:12:18 Staff hasn't addressed the neighborhood plan at all.
19:12:21 But I don't know the fact that it isn't written up in
19:12:24 here means that this is consistent with it.
19:12:26 So I would like to hear --
19:12:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to open the public hearing to
19:12:36 hear from staff.
19:12:40 >>> Staff would like to address that.
19:12:41 >>GWEN MILLER: We have to open the public hearing.
19:12:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to reopen the public hearing.
19:12:46 >> Second.
19:12:46 (Motion carried).
19:12:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: When they are come up I would like
19:12:52 staff to specifically say were they aware that the
19:12:54 Ballast Point plan addressed -- that this is within
19:12:57 the area addressed by the Ballast Point plan, and did
19:13:01 they consider that in their development of the
19:13:04 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
19:13:06 I personally am aware of the boundaries of the Ballast
19:13:09 Point neighborhood plan.
19:13:11 However -- however, the neighborhood plan has never
19:13:15 been implemented within any of our land development
19:13:18 It's not part of any of our city codes.
19:13:21 We can only evaluate from our perspective based on the
19:13:24 city codes that we have adopted today.
19:13:26 Mr. Garcia can certainly address where it fits into
19:13:30 the comprehensive plan.
19:13:31 However, he did state that they did find it consistent
19:13:33 with the goals and policies within that plan.
19:13:36 >>GWEN MILLER: All right, close the public hearing.
19:13:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry, with additional testimony
19:13:40 I believe it's incumbent upon council to give Mr.
19:13:43 Grandoff the right to rebut.
19:13:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If I'm wrong about that Himes
19:13:49 location, feel free to locate me.
19:13:51 Maybe that was a CVS.
19:13:54 >>> In the merger it was closed.
19:13:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I apologize.
19:13:57 >>> Walgreen's did not close a store.
19:13:59 >> I apologize.
19:14:00 My mistake.
19:14:00 >>> That is not an adopted ordinance.
19:14:02 It's fundamental that cannot have the force of law.
19:14:05 Finally, as for the neighborhood association and their
19:14:08 neighborhood plan, Ms. Flynn does not live on Marlin,
19:14:12 does not liver behind this project, none of the people
19:14:14 behind the project objected, Ms. Flynn lives further
19:14:19 down towards the Ballast Point park.
19:14:21 Please consider that in weighing testimony this
19:14:24 >>CHAIRMAN: Need to close the public hearing.
19:14:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
19:14:27 >> Second.
19:14:27 (Motion carried)
19:14:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Weaver a motion for denial.
19:14:34 All in favor of that motion say Aye.
19:14:37 Opposed, Nay.
19:14:42 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with --
19:14:44 >> I'm sorry, what was the motion?
19:14:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Oh, denial?
19:14:49 I guess age is getting to me.
19:14:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
19:14:54 The motion is for denial.
19:14:56 Motion by Mr. Dingfelder, seconded by Mrs. Saul-Sena
19:14:59 to deny.
19:15:00 All in favor of denial say Aye.
19:15:02 Opposed, Nay.
19:15:05 Do you have an ordinance?
19:15:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Read the vote, please.
19:15:09 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried -- or failed.
19:15:12 Motion failed with Saul-Sena, Dingfelder, and Mulhern
19:15:15 voting yes.
19:15:16 >>GWEN MILLER: We have an ordinance?
19:15:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Miranda ambivalent.
19:15:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Miranda no.
19:15:29 >>> Move a special use permit S-2 approving a drive-in
19:15:31 window in a CG and RS-75 zoning district in the
19:15:34 general vicinity of 3010 West Gandy Boulevard in the
19:15:38 City of Tampa Florida and more particularly described
19:15:40 in section 1 hereof providing an effective date.
19:15:42 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
19:15:44 All in favor of that motion say Aye.
19:15:45 Opposed, Nay.
19:15:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did you register that vote, please?
19:15:53 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena, Dingfelder
19:15:57 and Mulhern voting yes.
19:15:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Voting no.
19:16:00 >>JOHN GRANDOFF: Thank you for your time this evening.
19:16:05 >>GWEN MILLER: You're welcome.
19:16:06 Item number 3 is a continued public hearing.
19:16:11 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I'll be brief.
19:16:13 Land development.
19:16:13 This petition has been presented to you several weeks
19:16:20 Just to remind you, this is a petition to vacate a
19:16:23 portion -- just west of the --
19:16:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Let her finish.
19:16:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a procedure question.
19:16:42 I could have sworn we had a public hearing on this a
19:16:44 couple of months ago.
19:16:48 >>> It was continued.
19:16:49 That's what I was going to get to.
19:16:50 >>GWEN MILLER: You didn't let her finish.
19:16:57 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I was just reminding you where it
19:16:59 is and you essentially directed the petitioner and
19:17:01 transportation to work together.
19:17:02 Mr. Brian gentry is here from transportation.
19:17:05 They have done some traffic counties.
19:17:06 And Gina Grimes, petitioner's agent.
19:17:10 I just wanted to remind you it was.
19:17:27 >>> Brian gentry, I have been sworn.
19:17:28 I submitted a small packet for council's review.
19:17:30 It includes the traffic study performed on Waverly
19:17:35 court and covered the transcript of Roy LaMotte's
19:17:43 presentation to council.
19:17:44 Some of the key points from that presentation included
19:17:47 statements by the senior engineer explaining neither
19:17:50 the speed nor the cut-through through the department
19:17:56 of public works would classify as a problem, and
19:17:58 finally transportation objects to the vacating.
19:18:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Questions by council members?
19:18:07 Mr. Miranda?
19:18:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes, sir.
19:18:09 Can I speak to you a minute?
19:18:12 If I recall, a follow-up, there was a traffic count
19:18:17 done, and I drove through the neighborhood, there was
19:18:22 100 vehicles a day on that road, am I correct?
19:18:26 >>> 111.
19:18:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 111.
19:18:29 Thank you very much.
19:18:29 But five houses, I believe, that face the street, one
19:18:32 of them I believe may have the address but it faces
19:18:35 Am I correct?
19:18:36 >>> Correct.
19:18:37 >> Have you done any other traffic studies on the
19:18:39 street on the other side to the west like Carter or
19:18:42 whatever that street is?
19:18:43 I forgot the name of it right now.
19:18:45 >>> Carter is dead-ending.
19:18:52 >> What I was getting at is in driving through and
19:18:54 checking that flow, and you did post the signs, the
19:18:57 signs were there.
19:19:00 They were very nice and very visible.
19:19:03 I congratulate you and the department on it.
19:19:09 Approximately that size or a little longer that runs
19:19:11 north and south, that has five or six or seven houses,
19:19:15 or eight houses on it, that would have 111 cars going
19:19:19 That means that each house would generate on its own,
19:19:22 if there was in a different area, 20 trips a day.
19:19:28 And just looking at it from driving through, I went
19:19:32 around, and I remember the last time the neighborhood
19:19:35 or some parts of the neighborhood, said it's hard to
19:19:39 cross Bayshore Boulevard.
19:19:42 I did it seven times just to see if they were right.
19:19:45 And I'm still here.
19:19:48 You have to approach the intersection with a little
19:19:50 caution, and a little common sense, and make sure
19:19:53 there's nothing coming from the left.
19:19:55 You can cross to the middle aisle.
19:19:57 We have enough for the car to be there.
19:19:59 Then you have got to look to the right, make sure
19:20:01 nothing is come at the speed that you can get out.
19:20:06 And then I looked at the address of the structure.
19:20:11 I forget the name of it.
19:20:13 It's at 3507.
19:20:16 But the address is not on Bayshore.
19:20:18 Even though the structure faces Bayshore.
19:20:21 The address is on the side of Waverly.
19:20:25 I don't know.
19:20:27 My house address is on the side of the house.
19:20:35 That's all I have to say.
19:20:36 >>> I understand that is a large structure, a
19:20:38 residential structure and they are allowed to access
19:20:40 residential streets.
19:20:41 >> It's a beautiful area, very nice.
19:20:42 >>> As you said, you can cross over Bayshore.
19:20:44 I think the main point of the residents of the Alagon
19:20:48 is to go to the west, if they travel Waverly out to
19:20:51 MacDill, if you are going to be heading south, or
19:20:55 further west, which means you have to go south before
19:20:57 heading west again, to cross over traffic there at
19:21:00 MacDill is more difficult, so they take Waverly
19:21:05 court down to Euclid which is a neighborhood
19:21:07 collector, it is classified, collect the neighborhood
19:21:10 traffic and then get it down to MacDill where they
19:21:12 can safely cross.
19:21:16 >> Bryan, do you think that's a problem?
19:21:18 Where I live I have to go left to go right.
19:21:21 >>> I understand.
19:21:21 Also for your information, you said 11 trips you
19:21:24 consider to be high.
19:21:26 111 trips.
19:21:27 I have residential street two lanes approximately 500
19:21:30 feet interval, the average daily traffic would be 1500
19:21:34 trips, and I got some clarification from our traffic
19:21:39 calming that they consider a residential street to
19:21:41 have cut-through traffic at 2,000 trips.
19:21:46 >> Next to an airport.
19:21:52 >>> Well, it's really not as much as you would think.
19:21:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: All right, thank you.
19:21:59 >>MARY MULHERN: I think he answered my question
19:22:01 because he is the traffic engineer.
19:22:04 I appreciate your doing this, the driving. But I know
19:22:07 on my street, which really is a cut-through street,
19:22:10 but it goes for three blocks from MacDill to
19:22:15 Howard, we probably have 100 cars an hour, and it's a
19:22:19 quiet, tree-lined street and we stand out there and
19:22:22 yell at the cars driving by to slow down because
19:22:24 there's a lot of kids on our block.
19:22:26 So 100 doesn't sound like a lot to me.
19:22:35 >> My name is Gina Grimes with the law firm of hill,
19:22:38 ward, Henderson, 101 East Kennedy Boulevard.
19:22:41 And I have been sworn.
19:22:44 At the last public worse public hearing you continued
19:22:48 this not only for the transportation differentiation
19:22:51 to conduct a speed study.
19:22:56 Study but you also asked them to install no-truck
19:22:59 One of the impacts that this neighborhood has suffered
19:23:02 as a result of the Alagon development is the truck
19:23:06 traffic on their street as well as the illegal
19:23:09 There has always been no-parking signs up and down
19:23:12 this street, but they have had no effect.
19:23:15 Since the transportation division installed the
19:23:19 no-truck signs, they have also had the same situation.
19:23:23 They have little to no effect at all.
19:23:26 What I would like to do if you will indulge me is just
19:23:29 show you some pictures that have been taken since the
19:23:31 last public hearing to emphasize this point, and also,
19:23:36 I don't know if it would be helpful for you or not but
19:23:38 at the last hearing we submitted an evidence package.
19:23:41 I could give that to you again if you want to be
19:23:44 reminded of the location of the street and the number
19:23:47 of petitioners and where this is in proximity to
19:23:50 Bayshore Boulevard.
19:23:51 Would that help at all?
19:23:52 Can I go ahead and do that?
19:23:54 It's already in the record.
19:23:56 >>> I remember it.
19:23:58 >> He has it already.
19:24:00 They have it already.
19:24:04 >>GINA GRIMES: I didn't know if further council
19:24:07 members -- let me go back.
19:24:08 The reason why this vacating was requested was because
19:24:11 this neighborhood has been suffering the effects of a
19:24:14 large-scale development on Bayshore Boulevard for some
19:24:17 two, almost three years now, and they wouldn't be
19:24:20 coming before you in the neighborhood to implement
19:24:23 this self-help measure if they hadn't exhausted all
19:24:26 the other avenues they thought would potentially
19:24:29 remedy the situation.
19:24:31 The traffic volume, the speed, the parking and the
19:24:34 They have tried everything they can.
19:24:36 This is kind of like a last-ditch effort to try to
19:24:39 solve this problem.
19:24:40 And I can't help but make the point that in the last
19:24:42 public hearing, several council members were concerned
19:24:45 about nothing but the impact to the neighborhood.
19:24:47 And in this public hearing, that's what this is all
19:24:51 This is about resolving or addressing impacts that the
19:24:56 neighborhood has incurred over the last two and a half
19:24:58 to three years.
19:25:00 And it isn't as a result, really, I don't know that I
19:25:03 could point the finger to anyone.
19:25:04 The Alagon project was developed under the RM-75
19:25:08 It was not developed under a PD.
19:25:11 Ed it been these neighbors would have had the
19:25:13 opportunity to talk to you about doing something like
19:25:18 I mentioned this at the last hearing.
19:25:19 I was involved in several public hearings where
19:25:21 projects came in through the PD process, and this
19:25:24 council insisted that the developer cul-de-sac certain
19:25:28 streets, or install certain other traffic calming
19:25:31 measures to mitigate the impacts to the neighborhood.
19:25:34 Unfortunately, this he is reigns residents did knots
19:25:36 have the opportunity, so they are now before you today
19:25:39 to try to ask you to help as far as mitigating the
19:25:45 impacts to the neighborhood.
19:25:46 At the last public hearing -- and I'll put this up on
19:25:48 the Elmo ---we were able to show you all of the
19:25:52 construction vehicles unusually that were parked along
19:25:54 the street now, that there were residents in the
19:25:59 building, you have service vehicles parked up and down
19:26:02 However, just since the last public hearing, and I
19:26:06 don't know if there's a way to -- -- we have a
19:26:25 vehicle, a service vehicle, where the people are going
19:26:27 through the Alagon project.
19:26:29 The service vehicle parked on facing north on the east
19:26:33 side of Waverly court, right in front of the stop
19:26:37 Part of is it parked on the public right-of-way.
19:26:40 Part of it is parked on private property.
19:26:42 And this happens all -- has happened all up and down
19:26:45 Waverly Court for the last three years.
19:26:48 Right in front.
19:26:51 And this is just -- this is since the last public
19:26:55 And this is some of what is neighborhood has impacted.
19:27:00 They were told please be patient, the construction
19:27:02 will soon end.
19:27:03 Now it's the service vehicles.
19:27:05 There's an example of a truck, Bright House truck,
19:27:09 parked on private property, on the side of the street,
19:27:13 directly adjacent to a no parking sign.
19:27:16 Obviously, they ignore the sign.
19:27:19 There's another example that same day, and again this
19:27:21 has been since the last public hearing.
19:27:24 There's another example.
19:27:25 There's a picture of that same truck.
19:27:27 And here are other workmen going to the Alagon.
19:27:30 You can see them walking down the street, walking
19:27:32 partly on private property, partly on public
19:27:41 Some might suggest by putting up a sign like a no
19:27:45 truck sign or no parking sign that that's going to
19:27:48 solve the problem.
19:27:48 It has not.
19:27:50 It hasn't helped at all.
19:27:51 Obviously you can see they continue to park along the
19:27:55 In addition, you might think, well, maybe we need to
19:27:57 enforce the no parking signs and the no-truck signs.
19:28:01 I can assure you that our clients have done that time
19:28:03 and time and time again over the years, and that has
19:28:06 little to no effect either.
19:28:09 And staff oftentimes had to go out and confront people
19:28:12 that are working on their private property, workers,
19:28:16 and basically are ignored.
19:28:18 The police have not been willing or felt, I think,
19:28:21 that it rose to the level where they needed to issue
19:28:23 some sort of citation but my clients advised me that
19:28:27 generally when they call the police to address these
19:28:29 kinds of situations, they find that the police are
19:28:31 sometimes sided with the workers saying they are there
19:28:37 just trying to make a living.
19:28:38 Keep in mind too these impacts are being felt by the
19:28:41 residents of Waverly Court although the residents in
19:28:43 the Alagon project have not yet been occupied.
19:28:46 There's 53 units in all, and at this point in time not
19:28:50 all of them are occupied.
19:28:53 As far as the trucks go, since the no-truck signs have
19:28:57 been installed at the beginning of May, they continue
19:28:59 to have furniture trucks, Home Depot trucks, moving
19:29:05 trucks, repair trucks, everyone concrete trucks trying
19:29:08 to park and use Waverly court.
19:29:14 I believe one of my clients, Mr. Weeks, in July,
19:29:17 confronted a concrete truck that was there to pour a
19:29:20 slab and told them they weren't permitted to use
19:29:22 Waverly Court and was met with a lot of resistance
19:29:25 from the operator of that concrete truck.
19:29:30 In addition, you have the situation where you have the
19:29:32 dumpsters, and some of you have received e-mails.
19:29:35 I know Mr. Dingfelder has received several e-mails
19:29:38 from the residents on Waverly Court about the
19:29:40 situation with the dumpster.
19:29:42 Mr. Weeks' property which we are standing on when the
19:29:48 picture was taken has repeatedly called solid waste
19:29:52 Mr. Dingfelder, and code enforcement to try to get
19:29:55 some resolve to the dumpster situation.
19:29:58 There's continually trash and debris that comes out of
19:30:01 the dumpster and is felon into his yard.
19:30:04 In addition to that you have the issue of when the
19:30:06 dumpster is picked up and the time of day it is picked
19:30:09 Usually it happens around 6:30, 6:45 in the morning,
19:30:12 if you ever heard a dumpster being emptied it's a very
19:30:15 loud noise.
19:30:16 But, yes, at this point, there's been no resolution to
19:30:19 that problem either.
19:30:20 So again, we are in the situation where they have
19:30:23 exhausted all the various remedies that they could
19:30:27 identified, to try to address the impact that they
19:30:30 feel from the Alagon development, and this is nothing
19:30:34 against the residents themselves of the Alagon.
19:30:38 They bought into that project not knowing the impact,
19:30:43 the impacts that that project might have on the
19:30:44 adjacent street, but it has.
19:30:48 And what I want to do is just kind of put something
19:30:52 into context for you.
19:30:54 Here's the picture.
19:30:55 And this was part of the transportation division's
19:31:01 documents that they submitted to you with their speed
19:31:06 Here's Waverly Court and here's the Alagon project.
19:31:09 This picture was taken, this aerial was taken when the
19:31:12 project was still under construction.
19:31:14 If you look carefully you can see all the construction
19:31:16 vehicles that park up and down Waverly Avenue but the
19:31:19 point I want to make with this photo is when you count
19:31:22 up all the households in this area, north of Euclid
19:31:28 all the way around MacDill, have been that fronts
19:31:30 on Waverly and including these homes that sit on
19:31:34 Euclid, you have 65 households in this small 1.5-block
19:31:41 In this one small parcel alone, you have 53
19:31:45 So what you have done is you have taken almost as many
19:31:48 households and the impacts of those households in this
19:31:51 whole, huge block and a half area, and you put them on
19:31:55 one site.
19:31:56 And as a result of that, all the traffic impact and
19:32:03 some of the other aesthetic and visual impacts are
19:32:05 being felt by the residents of Waverly Court.
19:32:08 It's tantamount to putting a 53 year subdivision at
19:32:12 the end of their street.
19:32:26 How can they solve the problems, felt by the residents
19:32:30 of Waverly Court.
19:32:31 We think we can solve the problems in several ways.
19:32:34 At the last hearing we submitted a drawing where the
19:32:36 residents have hired an engineer to design a dead-end.
19:32:41 It's not a cul-de-sac but it's a dead-end with a
19:32:43 hammer head turn-around.
19:32:45 And we believe that if you permit them to install this
19:32:50 dead-end, this hammer head turn-around, that they will
19:32:53 be able to install landscaping that will screen their
19:32:57 street from the dumpster and the lights from the
19:32:59 Alagon project.
19:33:00 It will prevent the illegal parking along their
19:33:02 street, to which there's been no solution and no
19:33:04 solution, that I think anybody can identify.
19:33:08 It will also prevent the illegal truck traffic from
19:33:11 damaging the trees, and continuing to use that street
19:33:13 in violation of the sign, and it will also reduce or
19:33:17 eliminate the traffic and speeding.
19:33:20 I have given you the rationale for why these residents
19:33:23 are here in front of you asking for your assistance on
19:33:27 As I said before, this was a last-ditch effort.
19:33:30 They know of no other slugs to solve this problem or
19:33:33 mitigate the impacts of this development.
19:33:35 I also at the last hearing gave you the legal standard
19:33:38 for a vacating, which it is required to serve the
19:33:43 general interest of the public.
19:33:44 I cited to you the comprehensive plan provisions and
19:33:48 the neighborhood element, the transportation element,
19:33:50 the future land use element, all of which deal with
19:33:52 various different policies that would be implemented
19:33:56 or addressed if this vacating was approved.
19:33:59 And with that rationale and this legal justification,
19:34:01 we would request that you approve the vacating.
19:34:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Question by council members?
19:34:07 Is there anyone in the public that wants top speak on
19:34:10 item number 3?
19:34:14 Come up and speak.
19:34:25 >>> Milton Karp.
19:34:26 I have been sworn.
19:34:28 And I live at the Alagon.
19:34:31 That's the unit that's facing Bayshore, because
19:34:38 there's three units in fronts that's also the Alagon
19:34:41 and that's why it's facing Bayshore.
19:34:43 And that's why the address is Bayshore.
19:34:45 This is a perfect situation where people are fighting
19:34:51 Progress brings trucks, and more people come in to
19:34:55 work in an area.
19:34:58 And you talk about the general public.
19:35:00 The general public is the amount of people that lives
19:35:03 in the area, not necessarily the five or six people
19:35:06 who live on this one street.
19:35:11 We were here a month ago.
19:35:13 And a month ago, if I'm not incorrect, the council
19:35:18 said that the vacation should be denied.
19:35:22 But what we'll do is, we'll have a traffic test, and
19:35:26 we'll see how the speed is, because individuals on the
19:35:29 street were complaining the cars were going 60 to 65
19:35:33 miles an hour.
19:35:34 We now have -- and you have before you the results of
19:35:38 the traffic test.
19:35:39 The traffic test shows that cars were going 15, 20
19:35:44 miles an hour, as compared to what the allegation was
19:35:48 that these cars were going 65 miles an hour.
19:35:52 You also have before you the report of the Department
19:35:55 of Transportation that suggests that you also not
19:35:59 vacate this street.
19:36:01 This group has come before you in a few years ago, and
19:36:05 they also recommended that you vacate.
19:36:08 And the council at that time denied that motion to
19:36:12 vacate the street.
19:36:15 Again, this is a situation where you have progress,
19:36:19 and people attempting to fight progress.
19:36:23 As a prosecutor, you know when the evidence is against
19:36:25 you, then you argue something else.
19:36:28 Now these people are coming in and they are arguing
19:36:31 the trucks, because they can't argue speed anymore.
19:36:35 They can't argue safety anymore.
19:36:37 So they are arguing trucks.
19:36:40 Progress brings trucks.
19:36:42 And that's what it's all about.
19:36:44 I see no reason why the council should not deny the
19:36:48 motion to vacate.
19:36:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
19:36:57 >>> My name is Patti and I live at Alagon 1201.
19:37:05 I wanted to mention the point that if there are 110
19:37:08 trips on Waverly, and you close off Waverly, the 110
19:37:12 trips are then adjusts going to be redirected.
19:37:14 I mean, if they are on Waverly Court then they are
19:37:17 just going to be redirected going down Waverly.
19:37:19 It don't seem like you are solving an issue. I feel
19:37:22 for the people who live on Waverly Court and the
19:37:25 parking situation.
19:37:26 I feel that's an issue for the police to handle.
19:37:29 I mean, if I park somewhere and somewhere it's not
19:37:32 supposed to be parked I gets a parking ticket and I
19:37:35 pay it.
19:37:35 If the people who are parking there get parking
19:37:37 tickets after awhile, these get held up hundreds of
19:37:43 dollars, they have to pay for it.
19:37:46 It seems to be more a policing issue than a land use
19:37:50 Thank you.
19:37:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
19:38:03 >>> Can I get some help on how this unit works?
19:38:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We are good.
19:38:10 >>> Can you see it? Good.
19:38:11 My name is bill Gillum, 3507 Bayshore, which is the
19:38:17 I would like to speak in opposition to the petition.
19:38:22 As council for the petitioner mentioned, the power to
19:38:25 vacate streets has to be in the public and general
19:38:28 welfare, not just the welfare of that particular
19:38:33 street but the total welfare.
19:38:35 And I think when we look at the crux of the evidence
19:38:39 here, it doesn't support that standard.
19:38:42 If we la at the petition itself, the reason given was,
19:38:46 quote, Waverly court cannot safely accommodate traffic
19:38:50 generated by the new development and commuters
19:38:54 utilizing Waverly Court.
19:38:55 And as the gentleman mentioned a minute ago, the
19:38:58 traffic study completely bee lies that position.
19:39:06 Some 23 miles in a 25 mile-an-hour zone average, and
19:39:11 100 cars a day which considering the traffic of the
19:39:15 people living on that street would use, it's
19:39:17 essentially very little.
19:39:19 In fact, they concluded, based on the results of this
19:39:23 study, Waverly Court does not appear to be
19:39:25 experiencing any excessive speeding conditions, and
19:39:29 with regard to volume, this volume is associated with
19:39:32 being residentially generated and demonstrates no
19:39:36 cut-through traffic.
19:39:39 One thing that I think has been totally missed here,
19:39:43 and I think is extremely important that I would like
19:39:46 to bring to the council's attention, is if we look at
19:39:50 what's potentially happening here, south Waverly court
19:39:54 is what they are trying to close down.
19:39:57 There are a lot of residences along west Waverly.
19:40:01 Traffic on MacDill, which is only two lanes north
19:40:03 and south, oftentimes backs up at rush hour,
19:40:10 Gasparilla, air fest, whatever.
19:40:12 And oftentimes the only way if you want to go west
19:40:15 subpoena to go over one street, catch the traffic
19:40:19 light, but more importantly, if an emergency vehicle
19:40:23 needs to get into this area, and there is this
19:40:27 gridlock here, going through this light, cutting
19:40:30 through south Waverly, is the way to get there.
19:40:32 And I would like to focus on something that seems to
19:40:36 have been totally overlooked and I think is extremely
19:40:39 important, and that's the objections of the
19:40:42 transportation division.
19:40:44 And one of the things they said was, we oppose it,
19:40:49 first thing on the list, emergency services, response
19:40:52 time will be impacted.
19:40:53 And I remember, I wrote a letter to Mr. Dingfelder
19:40:59 fully objecting to this.
19:41:01 And if we took these other things, residential -- or
19:41:05 pedestrian access would be impacted, traffic would be
19:41:10 diverted, and look at the objections in the traffic
19:41:14 It would pretty much mirror my objections.
19:41:17 But I would like the council to consider this, some
19:41:23 practical considerations.
19:41:24 There's very little traffic actually there.
19:41:26 These trucks that are parking there, they have in fact
19:41:31 It's been noticeable to us living there.
19:41:33 Whether it be, sure in, time, they will all dissipate.
19:41:38 And we are sympathetic to that situation.
19:41:40 (Bell sounds).
19:41:41 But I would urge the council to deny the petition.
19:41:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did you say you were sworn in?
19:41:49 >> I was sworn, thank you.
19:41:52 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Thanks.
19:41:55 >>> My name is Shirley Wagner.
19:41:57 I have been sworn in.
19:41:58 I'm a resident of the Alagon, 1102.
19:42:02 And I'm here to bring you up to date on what is going
19:42:06 on in the Alagon.
19:42:08 We purposely have driven down Waverly Court to see how
19:42:12 much traffic is on that road.
19:42:15 I have not seen any trucks that have been parked on
19:42:19 Waverly, since I was here last, at your last hearing.
19:42:22 I have only seen the trucks parked on Waverly Court
19:42:26 that belong to a landscaping person there, and he has
19:42:30 had three, four, and five trucks on either side of the
19:42:34 road, making it almost impossible at times to go down
19:42:39 I purposely have tried to go fast on Waverly.
19:42:42 I really can't go much more than 22 miles an hour to
19:42:47 be actually safe.
19:42:48 When he said people go down 60 miles an hour, there's
19:42:52 no way anyone can go 60 miles an hour on that.
19:42:54 We are concerned about the safety, also.
19:42:59 If, as three or four weeks ago, we had a problem with
19:43:02 a flood in the Alagon and the three fire engines were
19:43:06 there, what will happen if Waverly Court is closed
19:43:11 off, and we have to have an emergency vehicle?
19:43:14 There is absolutely no place to turn around, from
19:43:17 Bayshore, down to MacDill, except to try to go
19:43:22 into Waverly Court, back up, and come into the Alagon
19:43:25 to help us.
19:43:26 We are concerned about that.
19:43:29 Construction is 99% completed.
19:43:32 Really, the traffic that you see there are a few of
19:43:36 the Bright House and the other service things that are
19:43:39 being called, because it's necessary to repair
19:43:43 different things.
19:43:44 Waverly Court dislikes the Alagon because we have
19:43:49 taken away their privacy.
19:43:51 No matter what we do as the residents, they will not
19:43:56 like us.
19:43:58 The dumpster problem has been taken care of.
19:44:01 I spoke with the manager today, and she tells me that
19:44:05 our superintendent goes over and personally picks up
19:44:10 any trash that has been blown into the corner houses
19:44:16 from the dumpster, from the garbage people when they
19:44:20 pick it up.
19:44:21 And that's been taken care of.
19:44:22 They can't use that as an excuse.
19:44:25 There was a picture taken of the man and his daughter
19:44:27 showing a victory sign, because they had prevented us
19:44:31 from putting up a sign that says "the Alagon."
19:44:36 And he was really happy.
19:44:37 He's taking a picture, victory, we won again.
19:44:41 Another thing is, the people who are complaining about
19:44:44 the guard house, the light on in the guard house is
19:44:48 keeping this man from watching TV.
19:44:49 So what did we do?
19:44:50 We turned off the light in the guard house to help
19:44:53 We are trying to be good, friendly neighbors.
19:44:58 The people there won't accept what we are trying to do
19:45:01 to them.
19:45:03 I have just one last thing.
19:45:06 The people on Waverly court will find a reason to be
19:45:11 objectionable, to have objections to the Alagon, no
19:45:15 matter what we do, and what is tried.
19:45:20 We, the residents, ask that you deny their request to
19:45:24 close off Waverly Court, because, after all, it's a
19:45:31 safety issue for all of us.
19:45:33 Thank you for your time.
19:45:34 Please vote against it.
19:45:40 >>> Jim leaks, I live at 3002 Waverly Avenue.
19:45:43 I have been sworn.
19:45:43 And I had not planned to speak tonight but I will
19:45:46 rebut some incorrect statements that have been made.
19:45:48 We were waken up in the morning at 1:30 when the fire
19:45:52 trucks arrived.
19:45:52 They all came off the Bayshore.
19:45:54 They don't need to use Waverly Court.
19:45:56 They never have.
19:45:57 I think there's something wrong with the system.
19:46:00 It is a biweekly event they have a fire truck show up
19:46:05 for a false alarm.
19:46:06 They always go toward the building and off the street
19:46:08 by going west on Waverly Avenue.
19:46:10 They never once needed or used Waverly Court.
19:46:14 Secondly, no one here ever alleged that a car traveled
19:46:17 60 or 65 miles an hour down that street.
19:46:19 I'm the one that said 45.
19:46:21 And everyone who has spoken that they can't go that
19:46:24 fast, I might point out is not a young person.
19:46:27 I could complain about the young people who do go in
19:46:29 excess of 40 miles an hour.
19:46:31 They do it on a regular and frequent basis.
19:46:33 I personally everybody able to drive more than 40
19:46:35 miles an hour on the street.
19:46:36 It's not hard to do. You have a car that has 6
19:46:39 cylinders like the BMCW silver that comes out of the
19:46:43 Alagon all the time, they travel in excess of 40 miles
19:46:45 an hour.
19:46:46 Secondly or thirdly, the tickets, that sounds like a
19:46:50 reasonable solution, call the police.
19:46:51 The problem is, the supervisor of the construction,
19:46:54 Eddie Leon told me point blank two years ago the
19:46:58 developer promised that he will pay every ticket given
19:47:00 to every worker and every subcontractor if they are
19:47:04 ticketed to the street so there goes the argument you
19:47:07 can ticket them to death.
19:47:08 That would seem to make sense but the police have not
19:47:10 been one to usual you them tickets. The police have
19:47:12 taken it upon themselves to not enforce the rule to
19:47:15 make a decision, a judgment call on their part, that
19:47:17 the men are only there trying to work so they refuse
19:47:19 to ticket them, and enforce the law.
19:47:21 That is not the policeman's right, in my opinion.
19:47:26 It is not a new issue.
19:47:28 It was said tonight that we are bringing a new issue
19:47:30 of the trucks.
19:47:31 Mr. Dingfelder has e-mails older than two and a half
19:47:34 years from me going back to the summer of 2004 about
19:47:37 the trucks that destroyed the canopy of the trees on
19:47:40 our property, this week twice, once Monday and once
19:47:43 Tuesday, language trucks including a concrete truck
19:47:45 tried to travel down my road.
19:47:47 A concrete truck was inches from destroying a limb on
19:47:50 my camphor tree.
19:47:52 I had to stand in front of my truck.
19:47:54 He was doing so at the direction of the developer.
19:47:57 So it is not a new issue.
19:48:00 We were told by the developer, preconstruction, that
19:48:03 you have no trucks going down the street.
19:48:05 We were told by the developer that that was a caveat,
19:48:08 that the city had given him about not destroying the
19:48:10 canopy of the tree.
19:48:11 He has continued to ignore it.
19:48:12 He directs large trucks to move down that street.
19:48:15 I just want to correct some things that were said
19:48:17 earlier that were incorrect.
19:48:18 Thank you.
19:48:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
19:48:24 >>> My name is Susan weeks and I live at 3002 Waverly
19:48:27 Avenue which is on the corner of Waverly Avenue and
19:48:29 Waverly Court.
19:48:30 I have been sworn.
19:48:32 I'm a homemaker so I'm at home for substantial
19:48:35 portions of time during the day and have personal
19:48:38 knowledge of the traffic on Waverly Court.
19:48:40 I might add that I probably have a little better view
19:48:43 than someone who lives eleven or 16 floors up.
19:48:46 Closing Waverly Court is the only way to return a
19:48:49 once-beautiful quiet neighborhood street to what it
19:48:52 once was and to what it was meant to be.
19:48:54 The no-truck signs are ineffective.
19:48:57 Trucks continue to use the street in complete
19:48:59 disregard of the signs, except if traffic continues
19:49:03 and speeding continues.
19:49:04 I understand that the traffic report shows that 15% of
19:49:08 the traffic on the road exceeds the speed limit, and
19:49:11 with 111 cars a day, 15% of that, I believe, is 16 or
19:49:16 17 cars F.someone in my family, one of my neighbors is
19:49:18 injured by a speeder, that statistic will be of no
19:49:22 I might add that the last time I politely used this
19:49:26 hand signal to slow down on the street the driver made
19:49:30 a hand signal back to me that was not quite as polite.
19:49:33 If you are concerned about protecting neighborhoods in
19:49:35 Tampa, this vote is a great opportunity to do so.
19:49:40 Thank you.
19:49:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
19:49:46 >>> I'm Linda Nelson.
19:49:47 My address is 3001iest Euclid, but my driveway and all
19:49:52 the activities of the family are done off of Waverly
19:49:56 And I have been sworn.
19:49:59 I'm speaking in opposition of you closing the street
19:50:01 that we live on.
19:50:03 We do not currently have a problem that we had before,
19:50:06 since the Alagon basically is constructed I think as a
19:50:10 public street and I think everyone is entitled to use
19:50:16 It will against all our family and our movement in
19:50:19 general because we go both ways on that street to
19:50:22 access services or whatever.
19:50:25 I think the other thing that the lawyer that is for
19:50:30 this petition has spoken to, brought up several items
19:50:33 that are not in relation to the petition, one is the
19:50:37 One is the problem of Waverly Avenue.
19:50:39 This petition is to vacate Waverly Court.
19:50:43 And I as well as the other neighbor who spoke before
19:50:47 are -- not the neighbor across the street from us who
19:50:50 also is on Waverly Court, are in opposition to that.
19:50:53 Thank you very much.
19:50:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
19:51:11 >>> I've been sworn.
19:51:12 I wasn't able to stand up but I did raise my hand.
19:51:15 My name is Charlotte Logan. I live at 2112 Euclid
19:51:21 I have been in that house for 55 years.
19:51:24 My house faces directly down Waverly Court.
19:51:29 And I'm home a lot and I'm in a good position to see
19:51:34 how much traffic there is and how much there isn't.
19:51:37 And I don't know what I can add to all that's been
19:51:40 said, but as far as trash in the yard goes, there's
19:51:46 hardly -- I don't have a dumpster near me but there's
19:51:49 hardly a morning that goes by that there's not trash
19:51:52 in my yard that people throw out their windows as they
19:51:55 go by.
19:51:56 So it doesn't necessarily come from the dumpster.
19:52:00 I am definitely opposed to closing Waverly Court,
19:52:04 because I use it when I come home on MacDill
19:52:08 Avenue late in the arch when there's so much traffic
19:52:12 from MacDill, you can't possibly turn at the light
19:52:18 at MacDill.
19:52:19 It's hard to turn anyway.
19:52:20 So I turn up Waverly and go up Waverly Court to my
19:52:26 And I would appreciate it if you consider not closing
19:52:29 Thank you.
19:52:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
19:52:30 Would anyone else like to speak?
19:52:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Got one more.
19:52:42 >>> My name is Campbell Burd and I live at 3603
19:52:47 Bayshore and I back up to Waverly Court.
19:52:50 I have been sworn.
19:52:50 And you know you are going to get a whole lots more
19:53:00 and we are only five people.
19:53:01 I think about preserving these also neighborhoods and
19:53:03 putting this little blanket over the Bayshore area to
19:53:06 preserve it the way it was.
19:53:07 You know, we have given up a lot of our privacy to the
19:53:10 I mean, we have lights washing down other houses, and
19:53:16 lights shining in our eyes at night.
19:53:18 And that doesn't have anything to do with the street.
19:53:21 But as Ms. Logan says, MacDill backs up and the
19:53:26 people want to cut off and come over.
19:53:28 And that's just for now.
19:53:29 I mean, it's going to get so much worse.
19:53:32 And this is such a nice opportunity to go ahead and
19:53:35 just nip that nasty thing in the bud to where we could
19:53:39 close it now.
19:53:41 There's five people, the quality and the serenity
19:53:45 would be preserved.
19:53:46 And one thing I want to say, once we have the hearing,
19:53:55 I can guarantee you the traffic from the Alagon going
19:53:58 down Waverly Court came to a halt.
19:54:00 Because I work out in the yard a lot.
19:54:02 And it was like all of a sudden they all got together
19:54:06 and said, no, we are not going to go down Waverly
19:54:08 Court for awhile.
19:54:09 And that's okay, I mean, you know.
19:54:11 And um, that's about all.
19:54:18 But I just felt like this was such a good opportunity
19:54:20 to preserve a little bit of what we had before it gets
19:54:26 so much worse.
19:54:27 Because it will.
19:54:30 Waverly Avenue used to be single family.
19:54:33 MacDill is going to be multi-family.
19:54:35 It's just going to be a bigger problem.
19:54:36 And I don't think fire trucks leaving Waverly Court,
19:54:40 you talk -- it seems like a pretty simple thing.
19:54:46 Thank you.
19:54:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Ma'am, I have a question.
19:54:50 I don't know if anybody said this but it wasn't clear
19:54:55 to me.
19:54:55 There's pavement and then there's -- I don't know if
19:55:02 that's private property.
19:55:04 Did you all support the idea of -- it appears there
19:55:09 are no curves on this street which is why one of the
19:55:13 people park on the grass adjacent to it.
19:55:16 Curbs might -- did you consider some sort of
19:55:27 significant barrier to people going over to your
19:55:31 >> Well, to me that's a little bit different issue.
19:55:38 That's just making your street -- I mean, that's nice
19:55:43 for the parking problems but as far as the traffic
19:55:45 volume and the traffic future coming.
19:55:49 >> Actually, whenever you do things like that, it's
19:55:52 called traffic calming.
19:55:53 And it really does slow people down, like your tree
19:55:57 canopy slows people down.
19:55:59 And if they feel like the road is narrow, then they
19:56:02 slow down.
19:56:03 It's just an idea.
19:56:29 >>> Mrs. Saul-Sena, to answer your one question about
19:56:31 the area outside of the pavement, let me go back.
19:56:35 When this street was originally platted, when this
19:56:38 street was dedicated to the city, not conveyed to the
19:56:40 city but dedicated to the city, to hold in trust for
19:56:44 the public, this is Scott street now known as Carter,
19:56:55 these two streets were platted as dead-end streets.
19:56:58 When the predecessor dedicated this property as a
19:57:01 public street for the City of Tampa, it was done as a
19:57:04 dead-end street.
19:57:05 What happened was, subsequent to that, the city
19:57:10 purchased this lot on Euclid, right here, and made it
19:57:13 a through street.
19:57:14 But when the predecessors dedicated this to the city
19:57:20 it was intended to a dead-end street to provide access
19:57:25 only to the residents that lived along Waverly Court.
19:57:28 That protection was taken away when the city on its
19:57:32 own bought this lot in this adjacent subdivision and
19:57:36 made at through street.
19:57:37 But what happened after that is I believe in the
19:57:39 1940s, you can see this green area, that it was
19:57:45 So you had originally a 60-foot dedicated right-of-way
19:57:50 as a dead-end street.
19:57:52 In the 1940s, this green area, 20 feet on both
19:57:54 sides, 40 feet was already -- has already been
19:57:58 vacated, leaving only 20 feet of dedicated
19:58:01 Actually, there's only 17.5-foot of pavement.
19:58:05 When you measure, when you look at the surveys from
19:58:07 one property owner, this property owner to this
19:58:10 property owner, you actually, when you look at their
19:58:14 lot width and depth you only have 17.5 feet remaining
19:58:18 in the middle.
19:58:19 You have a street that is substandard.
19:58:23 And one of the objectors mentioned that you have this
19:58:27 transportation division's objection, and that alone
19:58:29 should be enough to deny it.
19:58:30 But you also have other competent and substantial
19:58:33 evidence on the record dealing with transportation
19:58:36 issues and one of them is the transportation technical
19:58:45 In this instance you have between 17.5 to 20 feet of
19:58:49 But it's substandard size width.
19:58:57 Mr. Rice, who lives in this home right here, lived
19:59:00 there for some time, says that there are, I believe,
19:59:04 restrictions that were placed in the vacating that
19:59:06 prevent them from installing any kind of obstruction
19:59:10 like in that right-of-way area.
19:59:12 But there is a question about the width of the
19:59:14 But nonetheless it's still only 20 feet, which is
19:59:18 You wouldn't be able to plat a subdivision in this
19:59:21 city right now with 20-foot of right-of-way.
19:59:23 You wouldn't be able to do it.
19:59:24 And in addition, the comp plan in the transportation
19:59:28 element states that the intent of local roads is
19:59:31 really to provide access to the property owners.
19:59:33 It's not to provide circulation, it's not to provide
19:59:37 through traffic, cut-through traffic.
19:59:39 It's not the intent of a local road.
19:59:41 And Waverly Court is in fact a local road.
19:59:43 And I also want to echo --
19:59:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can I ask a follow-up question?
19:59:50 It's a little bit close to where Mrs. Saul-Sena was
19:59:56 Even little Puckett fences, even also three or
20:00:00 four-feet picket fences squeezed up against the city
20:00:04 right-of-way I think could accomplish a lot.
20:00:08 You would eliminate any parking along there.
20:00:12 You would do some traffic calming, because now you are
20:00:14 talking about a 17.5-foot, you know, strip.
20:00:19 It just seems -- and it's not the answer and it's not
20:00:22 granting what you're looking for but it just seems
20:00:25 like that could be sort of a self-help situation that
20:00:29 your clients could have.
20:00:30 And I just wonder --
20:00:33 >>GINA GRIMES: I suggest to you that that would pose a
20:00:36 very dangerous situation.
20:00:37 You have a pavement width of 18 feet.
20:00:40 It's already substandard. The minimum lane width is
20:00:43 10 feet.
20:00:44 So you are going to be closing off and creating an
20:00:46 18-foot right-of-way where two cars are not going to
20:00:49 be able to pass.
20:00:50 >> But that's all the city owns there.
20:00:52 So your have a legal right to go up to the property
20:01:00 >> Is that going to solve the problem?
20:01:02 Are people going to hit the fence when two cars are
20:01:04 trying to pass?
20:01:06 It's almost as if the situation -- it's somewhat
20:01:08 frustrating to me, because I do -- I have represented
20:01:11 both sides.
20:01:17 If you are emphasizing the impact to the neighborhood,
20:01:19 you oftentimes deny applications or try to deny
20:01:22 petitions because of the impact to the neighborhood.
20:01:24 And here we have a neighborhood who spent a lot of
20:01:27 money getting to this to try to convince that you they
20:01:29 are suffering impacts from the development.
20:01:31 And they are asking for your help to try to allow them
20:01:37 to pay for the cost of mitigating that impact.
20:01:49 So far in the three years that they have been
20:01:50 incurring those, none of those measures have worked.
20:01:53 And there is the point where they know of no other
20:01:56 solution but to dead-end or cul-de-sac the street.
20:02:00 And I want to echo what Mr. Weeks said, and that is
20:02:05 that this isn't a new issue, the parking and the truck
20:02:09 It was addressed -- and made a motion to install
20:02:15 no-truck signs because of the testimony that was
20:02:16 presented about the impacts of the truck traffic.
20:02:19 The parking issue was also identified by myself,
20:02:28 making sure we were doing something right, an usual
20:02:31 you raised the last time around.
20:02:33 As far as the speed of the vehicles on the street, Mr.
20:02:37 Weeks is right, 15% of the cars, 15 cars per day
20:02:40 travel over the speed limit.
20:02:41 That might not sound like a lot.
20:02:44 But it's that one car that's speeding that causes the
20:02:48 problem, then the statistics really do not matter.
20:02:51 I will submit to you that we have given you ample
20:02:53 reason, common sense reasons, why we believe this
20:02:56 vacating serves the general public interest.
20:03:00 And also we have given you rationale and legal support
20:03:04 for establishing that it meets the requirements, and
20:03:08 in fact implements provisions that you have in your
20:03:10 comp plan.
20:03:11 A lot of times you have all these comp plan
20:03:13 provisions, and you never really see them implemented.
20:03:15 There were several that we sited.
20:03:20 These neighborhood protection measures that are in
20:03:22 your comp plan.
20:03:26 I don't know what other solution we can give to these
20:03:28 property owners other than to close the street, and to
20:03:33 allow them to install the dead-end with the
20:03:35 landscaping, to mitigate against the impacts of the
20:03:39 With that, we would request your approval.
20:03:49 >> Motion to close.
20:03:50 >> Second.
20:03:50 (Motion carried).
20:03:51 >> Do you have an ordinance?
20:03:58 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
20:03:58 The ordinance actually is not prepared, as there is a
20:04:02 standing objection from transportation.
20:04:03 Depending on which way you motion, we can certainly
20:04:07 direct you which way to go.
20:04:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move for denial
20:04:12 based on our staff and purpose works, the
20:04:17 transportation citing, the reasons why they think this
20:04:19 would not be good for our transportation system.
20:04:23 Is that legal?
20:04:30 >> I'll second it with great hesitation.
20:04:39 There is a standard.
20:04:45 >>> There was none cited in the report.
20:04:48 >> I'm not talking about a report.
20:04:50 >>> I will site the report from transportation that
20:04:52 said that there are 100 vehicles per day traveling
20:04:55 below the proposed speeds.
20:05:00 I think that this is not -- 100 cars a day is not hey
20:05:07 traffic volume.
20:05:08 I think the impact to the neighborhood is minimal and
20:05:10 we heard enough competent, substantial evidence from
20:05:13 our other neighbors who said they wanted it to be
20:05:17 open, that it would make the access of the city
20:05:20 transportation more limited if they didn't -- if the
20:05:23 street weren't open, and that made sense to me.
20:05:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll second that.
20:05:29 And if I could, Madam Chair, with my second, Ms.
20:05:32 Grimes, you indicated your frustration.
20:05:33 This is a very difficult one for us.
20:05:35 You have to know that.
20:05:36 We feel for the Weekses and the Burton's along the
20:05:42 street and I think we would all like to close it so
20:05:44 they can have a nice private street but the bottom
20:05:46 line is, you know, we have to look at the entire
20:05:48 neighborhood, and the entire neighborhood now
20:05:51 includes, unfortunately, in a offense, but now
20:05:54 includes the Alagon, and the 50 or 100 families that
20:05:57 are in there, in addition to the folks that live on
20:05:59 Waverly, that would now get the additional traffic.
20:06:04 Knicks to the folks who live on Euclid who testified
20:06:07 previously and today that this would impact them
20:06:10 The whole transportation grid.
20:06:11 It been that way since the 40s or 50s as you
20:06:16 You know, it's a very difficult situation, but I don't
20:06:19 think the solution is to vacate that street.
20:06:22 And I think that it doesn't meet the general public's
20:06:27 safety and health standards that are always cited to
20:06:32 us by Santiago -- Mr. Santiago.
20:06:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Dingfelder, if you wish, council
20:06:40 has made reference upon this in the past, previous
20:06:43 memos from Rolando Santiago, assistant city attorney,
20:06:47 stating the criteria for right-of-way vacating
20:06:51 If you would like, I can review that, if council
20:06:55 Section 22-34 is the petition for vacating streets and
20:06:59 alleys generally.
20:07:01 But with regard to the public purpose, you have been
20:07:05 briefed by Mr. Santiago in the past.
20:07:07 I do have a copy of that memo if council wishes to
20:07:15 look top thatch.
20:07:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Why don't we incorporate that into
20:07:18 the record as a basis for the denial.
20:07:20 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you wish.
20:07:21 I would like to take three minutes to copy it, provide
20:07:23 to the cot council.
20:07:25 >> We don't need itself.
20:07:26 >>GWEN MILLER: We don't need it.
20:07:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We have seen it.
20:07:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That's true.
20:07:30 And, council, I will make a copy of that and make that
20:07:34 part of the record.
20:07:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is there a date on the memo.
20:07:37 >>> February 22nd, 2006 memo.
20:07:42 I'll make a copy for the record.
20:07:47 It does tie to chapter 22 and it does have sections of
20:07:51 the code from chapter 22.
20:07:55 Exhibit A.
20:07:56 They did include that as well.
20:07:57 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second for denial.
20:07:59 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
20:08:01 Opposed, Nay.
20:08:01 >>THE CLERK: Motion carries with Miller and Miranda
20:08:11 voting no.
20:08:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: My motion was to deny the closure.
20:08:34 >> A vote of yes is a vote to deny the petition and
20:08:35 not vacate the property.
20:08:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: They want to close it.
20:08:47 My motion was no, leave it open. If you agree with
20:08:49 me, you vote yes.
20:08:49 >> To leave it open? No. I don't want to.
20:09:00 >>THE CLERK: The motion carried with Miller,
20:09:05 Miranda and Cataeno voting no.
20:09:08 >>PHIL SCHULZ: Land Development Coordination.
20:09:19 I have been sworn.
20:09:20 Next case item on your agenda, rezoning case Z 07-49
20:09:25 in district 6, area located at 4229 north Habana
20:09:30 Jim Stutzman is the petitioner.
20:09:33 Review development committee has reviewed the petition
20:09:35 and has determined its inconsistent with the City of
20:09:37 Tampa code as of the date of this report.
20:09:43 The petitioner is requesting seven waivers.
20:09:45 Number one, section 13-161 to reduce the required
20:09:49 8-foot vehicle use area buffer to 3 feet along north
20:09:54 Item 2, section 27-246-A to reduce the required drive
20:09:58 aisle from 26 to 23 feet.
20:10:01 Waiver 3, section 27-130, to waive the required 6-foot
20:10:06 masonry wall with a fence along the south and east lot
20:10:10 lines, to protect the root systems and several
20:10:13 protected trees along that lot line.
20:10:16 Waiver 4, section 27-130 to reduce the required
20:10:20 15-foot landscape buffer along the south and east lot
20:10:23 lines to 3 feet.
20:10:25 Waiver 5, section 27-24220 Todd Pressman reduce the
20:10:31 required number of parking spaces from 10 to 5.
20:10:35 Waiver 6, section 13, 161-E, aware of green space,
20:10:42 that 180 square feet will be assessed as payment in
20:10:46 lieu fee to be paid to the City of Tampa Parks and
20:10:48 Recreation Department, the current rate assessed at
20:10:50 the time of permitting.
20:10:52 This shall be paid prior to issuance of the first
20:10:54 building permit.
20:10:57 Last waiver, item 7, section 27-246-A to reduce the
20:11:01 required backup from 7 to zero feet.
20:11:05 Petitioner proposition to rezone the property at 4229
20:11:08 north Habana Avenue to planned development to convert
20:11:11 an existing 1600 square foot one-story house to
20:11:14 medical or business professional office.
20:11:17 PD setbacks for the structure include 33.3, fronting
20:11:20 on north Habana Avenue, 13-foot side yard south, 14.4
20:11:26 on the rear yard, on the east, and 9.3 feet from the
20:11:30 side yard on the north.
20:11:32 The proposed plan requires 10 parking spaces.
20:11:34 The petitioner is providing 5 spaces including one ADA
20:11:38 space, and requesting a waiver for the five remaining.
20:11:41 The maximum height is an existing 25 feet of the
20:11:45 The project is located in an area that has been in
20:11:49 transition to medical office for several years.
20:11:51 It has medical office on the north, west, northeast,
20:11:54 and two parcels to the south and east.
20:11:59 The transportation department, Land Development
20:12:01 Coordination, feel that item number 5, the waiver
20:12:10 number 5 is actually inconsistent and somewhat
20:12:17 We recommend to the council that petitioner give us
20:12:19 more specifics regarding employees, the hours of
20:12:28 Here is the subject property in green.
20:12:30 You see the property to the north.
20:12:35 We just rezoned this parcel over here last week, in
20:12:40 To PD.
20:12:41 The entire block has been converted to office.
20:12:46 The only remaining -- I am going to show you the
20:12:49 photograph. The only remaining residential in this
20:12:51 entire block is actually directly to the west across
20:12:55 the street in this location.
20:13:00 And it's a very attractive home, I might add.
20:13:04 Here is the subject parcel again.
20:13:05 Here is Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard to the ^
20:13:10 Here is Habana, north and south of the subject parcel.
20:13:14 West Virginia -- West Virginia Avenue.
20:13:17 And here is a picture of the subject parcel.
20:13:25 As you can see, the house is -- I would have to say in
20:13:29 a deteriorating frame.
20:13:33 There's nothing like the house -- I should say brand
20:13:36 new medical office to the north of that.
20:13:40 Which is a very attractive landscaping.
20:13:44 Here are the parcels to the south.
20:13:49 These have all been rezoned but did not appear to me
20:13:51 that they have been transitioned into offices.
20:13:54 They have been rezoned RO-1.
20:13:58 This is actually across the street, south of the house
20:14:01 I have been showing you. This is all medical office
20:14:05 in this area.
20:14:07 This is a gorgeous house directly across the street.
20:14:10 The only remaining one the entire block.
20:14:13 This is a picture looking north.
20:14:16 You see Martin Luther King Boulevard.
20:14:17 And this is looking south down Habana.
20:14:23 If you have any questions, I'll be available.
20:14:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question.
20:14:26 How come there are no sidewalks on Habana?
20:14:31 Typically on this --
20:14:34 >>> That's a very good question.
20:14:35 I do not have an answer for you other than we are
20:14:38 requiring the petitioner to put in sidewalks, as you
20:14:42 >> I didn't see it on the site plan.
20:14:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm not sure if that location, Ms.
20:14:48 Saul-Sena, has a ditch but I know in the area, it's
20:14:50 called ditch view waterfront property.
20:14:58 [ Laughter ]
20:15:00 >>> So where we have very new office structures,
20:15:02 please note on the Elmo, please, that we do have
20:15:05 sidewalks where we have very, very new office
20:15:11 >>> Because there's a lot of traffic on Habana.
20:15:14 I have walked in that area and it's really dangerous.
20:15:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: In your report, waiver number 3,
20:15:24 speaks to waiving the 6-foot masonry wall and allowing
20:15:29 6-foot PVC fence, with vine.
20:15:33 And I just wonder about the feasibility of vine
20:15:37 growing on PVC.
20:15:41 Seems like it's not a realistic opportunity.
20:15:44 >>> That was something Mary suggested.
20:15:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Carry the hand mike.
20:15:49 >>> Mary Daniels Bryce, Land Development Coordination.
20:15:56 >> Might need it towards the windows.
20:16:02 >>> There are some creeping vines that will attach to
20:16:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The other question relates to the
20:16:17 swapping out.
20:16:18 We see this pretty often.
20:16:21 Everybody wants to go PVC instead of masonry.
20:16:25 I have a feeling it's probably expense.
20:16:29 >>> Actually, our concern there, if I might interrupt
20:16:31 you -- and again you can defer to Mary on this -- but
20:16:34 in order to build the wall you have to dig a very deep
20:16:36 footing so you can get bearings on the wall, a 6-foot
20:16:39 high masonry wall or higher requires a very heavy
20:16:44 And if we put that in, it will adversely affect a lot
20:16:48 of root system in that area so parks and rec and Mary,
20:16:52 our expert, are actually recommending against that.
20:16:54 And pier and lintel to protect the trees, root system.
20:17:02 We don't want to do effective removal.
20:17:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't know there were trees along
20:17:09 that boundary.
20:17:15 Fair enough.
20:17:15 Thank you.
20:17:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Questions from council members?
20:17:18 >>TONY GARCIA: Planning Commission staff.
20:17:24 I have been sworn.
20:17:29 Not too long since we visited this area as Mr. Shultz
20:17:32 has told you.
20:17:42 The land use categories along Martin Luther King, of
20:17:44 course, community mixed use 35.
20:17:49 This is represented by St. Joseph's hospital,
20:17:53 residential 20, as one leaves Martin Luther King and
20:17:56 the intensity and the transition down in intensity to
20:17:58 the residential 10.
20:18:00 Of course, as we all know --
20:18:04 >> Mr. Miranda, you know oh so well this area has
20:18:07 evolved quite a bit into low density office uses over
20:18:10 the last decade, in compliance with the future land
20:18:14 use element policy A-4.1 which talks about this area
20:18:17 being defined as suitable for medical office
20:18:20 development, due to its proximity to the regional
20:18:25 medical facility in the area.
20:18:28 As Mr. Shultz also talked to you about, this
20:18:32 particular site is already pretty much ensconced by
20:18:35 medical office uses with the exception of a couple
20:18:38 uses to the south of the site which still are
20:18:42 residences and have not been developed for medical
20:18:45 I believe, Mrs. Saul-Sena, when they are developed,
20:18:47 they will comply with putting sidewalks along that
20:18:49 particular exit.
20:18:51 They just haven't been developed yet.
20:18:52 But it doesn't really flood there and I don't think
20:18:54 that particular section does have ditches.
20:18:56 And everyone though I know farther to the south, I
20:19:00 have to concur with Mr. Miranda about their being
20:19:03 ditches a little farther down to the south for sure.
20:19:09 It's consistent as far as policy A-4.17 which allows
20:19:13 these type of uses.
20:19:14 We know this has pretty much been the trend throughout
20:19:16 this entire area.
20:19:17 Also, policies that talk about compatibilities of
20:19:20 similar uses in the area, of light uses.
20:19:23 So the applicant, for what it's worth, has told me
20:19:26 that they are going to be rehabbing the existing home
20:19:29 that's there to convert it into a medical office use.
20:19:33 So it will at least retain a residential flavor to
20:19:38 this immediate area, which is good to know.
20:19:41 Planning Commission staff had no objections to the
20:19:43 proposed request.
20:19:56 >>> My name is Jim Stutzman, address 3314 Henderson
20:20:00 Boulevard, suite 108 in Tampa, and I have been sworn.
20:20:04 I won't go into a lot of detail about the planning
20:20:06 issues your staff has brought up, but just reiterate
20:20:10 it is about a 6500 square foot parcel, and it's on the
20:20:15 east side of Habana, in the arts and land use category
20:20:18 that would permit this project.
20:20:20 And there is significant other office, medical office
20:20:23 zoning in the area, and the property to the south is
20:20:28 RO-1 so eventually that will be developed as office.
20:20:31 I think Mr. Dingfelder that's where you were talking
20:20:34 about the concrete block walls.
20:20:36 We think it's appropriate for the fence, also given
20:20:39 what's going to happen in the future.
20:20:41 So, really, it's an in-fill project.
20:20:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can we talk about park ago little
20:20:49 The staff report indicates that the requirement is for
20:20:51 ten parking spaces.
20:20:52 You asked for a waiver to go down to five.
20:20:55 I think the staff objection is still they are not
20:20:59 thrilled about their 50% reduction in parking spaces.
20:21:04 >>> Right.
20:21:06 >> And they wanted an opportunity to add any more
20:21:08 spaces? Do you need any waivers from us?
20:21:11 >>> No.
20:21:11 I think that's the primary objection from staff on
20:21:13 this petition, I believe.
20:21:15 And the Maria Perillo is here, she's the owner of the
20:21:22 property and she will be operating the clinic.
20:21:24 She is a physical therapist.
20:21:26 She will actually be the manager of the facility.
20:21:29 There will be one therapist there.
20:21:30 They see one patient per hour.
20:21:33 And they operate three days a week with patients from
20:21:36 noon to 7 p.m.
20:21:40 And she does administrative work the other two days.
20:21:42 There are no weekends.
20:21:43 A doctor comes in many once or twice a month to write
20:21:47 orders for the patient.
20:21:48 So it is not the typical medical office where you have
20:21:52 a doctor with 50 patients at one time.
20:21:57 >> For the next 20 years, but nothing is forever.
20:22:00 How do you control that?
20:22:02 >>> We would be willing to put a condition on the site
20:22:04 plan, to limit to the two employees.
20:22:07 And we would limit the hours of operation if you felt
20:22:09 that was necessary.
20:22:11 But again that's just a typical problem in the area
20:22:15 when you convert a small house or small piece of
20:22:19 And we have squeezed five spaces in there to take a
20:22:22 few other waivers with the landscape to get them in
20:22:25 But she is the owner.
20:22:28 She's going to operate the business.
20:22:30 And she is prepared to give a little testimony tonight
20:22:32 about the specifics of her operation.
20:22:36 But we feel that with those conditions, we could put
20:22:41 those on in the next two weeks, add them to the site
20:22:43 plan, and that way it would run with the zoning that
20:22:45 we would have a maximum of two employees.
20:22:48 Again it's one therapist, sees one patient every hour.
20:22:52 So there may be a little overlap but we do have five
20:22:55 parking spaces.
20:22:57 So it's a very low intensity medical use.
20:23:01 The code is trying to accommodate doctors' offices,
20:23:06 where there's a high volume of traffic.
20:23:08 As you all know, we have to wait an hour and a half to
20:23:11 see a doctor, so for every appointment, there's ten
20:23:14 This will not be that type of operation.
20:23:17 So we think with adding that condition to the site
20:23:19 plan that that would control the parking dilemma.
20:23:29 >> Mrs. Saul-Sena?
20:23:29 >> Thank you.
20:23:30 I feel a lot better hearing that.
20:23:32 I have a question for our staff about how enforceable
20:23:36 something like that is.
20:23:41 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
20:23:42 These types of conditions are -- most of our issues
20:23:48 with compliance are complaint driven.
20:23:51 And if there is an issue where cars are stacked in the
20:23:54 street, parked along the right-of-way, and there is a
20:23:56 complaint, we would call code enforcement and probably
20:23:59 investigate ourselves as well.
20:24:01 And if all of a sudden we saw five employees working
20:24:04 inside the building, if you limited hours of operation
20:24:06 from ten to six or whatever we negotiated and they
20:24:09 were open till nine or ten o'clock at nature they
20:24:12 would be in violation of their rezoning, their PD
20:24:15 plan, based on whatever conditions we set.
20:24:18 I noted what Mr. Stutzman said that it's going to be
20:24:21 physical therapy.
20:24:22 Could you limit the medical office type use to
20:24:25 specifically a physical therapy type use, because
20:24:28 medical office is general.
20:24:31 Could you limit the number of patients per day by
20:24:34 We could limit office hours, by number of employees,
20:24:38 which would be able to scale back the use.
20:24:41 As a reminder.
20:24:43 This is an approvable application.
20:24:45 These would be minor changes, notes being added to the
20:24:49 And if you did motion to approve we would need the
20:24:51 items stated very clearly what the conditions would be
20:24:54 placed on the plan, so could you approve on first
20:25:01 >>> And we do have a sidewalk proposed on the site
20:25:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Let me see if there's anyone in the
20:25:09 public that wants to speak on item number 6.
20:25:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close the public hearing.
20:25:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't think you want to close
20:25:18 because we have to jig we are the conditions.
20:25:19 >>GWEN MILLER: No, you can close.
20:25:22 State what you want to put on.
20:25:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You want to close it?
20:25:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
20:25:26 Have a motion.
20:25:27 Do we have a second?
20:25:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, the attorney --
20:25:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Cathy Coyle, she said you can do first
20:25:40 >> But we haven't said that.
20:25:41 If I may, the petitioner has indicated it's one time
20:25:48 per hour.
20:25:49 So is that part of the condition?
20:25:52 The petitioner also indicated that they open at 12 and
20:25:55 close at seven.
20:25:57 Am I correct?
20:25:58 >>> Correct.
20:25:58 >> Monday through Friday, correct?
20:26:00 >>> The actual dates if you look on the overhead, I
20:26:02 did specify exactly the conditions of the operation.
20:26:07 We have two employees, one therapist, one
20:26:09 administrator owner, one patient per hour, noon to
20:26:12 7 p.m. on Monday, Wednesday, Thursday.
20:26:14 She does administrative --
20:26:17 >> Well, Tuesdays and Fridays, I want to give you the
20:26:19 benefit of the doubt, if somebody needs a massage or
20:26:23 The doctor may say, this guy here, he needs a massage
20:26:27 on his shoulder.
20:26:30 >>> Ms. Spirola is here if you want to hear from her.
20:26:35 >> I don't think so.
20:26:36 But I want to put this in the record.
20:26:41 To close the public record.
20:26:43 >>> If I may, if that's suitable I will present that
20:26:49 to you.
20:26:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Need to close the public hearing.
20:26:53 >> So moved.
20:26:54 >> Second.
20:26:55 (Motion carried).
20:26:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair.
20:26:57 You can see this eloquent diagram here. This used to
20:27:02 be a very viable neighborhood with kids and even on
20:27:09 MLK, there were houses and residents.
20:27:13 So through this council, councils before them, the
20:27:17 grandparents of those council members, all that were
20:27:19 involved, this is what happened.
20:27:27 But if you don't believe me, watch.
20:27:30 Sometime in the very near future when it gets closer
20:27:35 south, just a little closer, you are going to see the
20:27:37 fangs come out.
20:27:38 Because I ain't taking in a more of this.
20:27:41 But that being said, I'll read this one.
20:27:45 I move this item number 6 for approval with the
20:27:52 following conditions: A, that there be two employees,
20:27:57 one therapist and one administrator, one patient per
20:28:00 hour, the hours of operation will be open noon to
20:28:04 seven Monday through Fridays.
20:28:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Monday, Wednesday, Thursday.
20:28:14 >> But Tuesday and Thursday, who knows if the doctor
20:28:16 will be there?
20:28:16 I don't want the lady saying I can't do this if the
20:28:20 doctor sauce you have to take care of that patient.
20:28:22 If I may, and that's it.
20:28:26 >> Second.
20:28:26 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
20:28:28 (Motion carried).
20:28:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You handed a copy of that to the
20:28:35 The only condition on there that is different based on
20:28:39 your motion was the operation, the days of the week
20:28:42 and hours.
20:28:43 And for Mr. Crews benefit, regardless of what it says,
20:28:47 your motion was Monday through Friday.
20:28:50 >>> Correct.
20:28:50 >> Just so the transcript is clear under the new
20:28:53 provisions of chapter 27, the record will be reviewed,
20:28:55 you will be able to now read the ordinance on first
20:29:00 The site plan will be certified as correct based on
20:29:03 your motion when it is brought back to you at second
20:29:07 reading so you are able to proceed today.
20:29:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We'll read it, right?
20:29:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Miranda, now you read the
20:29:17 >>> Move an ordinance rezoning property in the general
20:29:19 vicinity of 3229 -- had 329 north Habana Avenue in
20:29:23 section 1 from zoning district classifications RS-50
20:29:25 residential single family topped planned development
20:29:27 medical offices and businesses, professional office,
20:29:30 providing an effective date.
20:29:31 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
20:29:32 (Motion carried)
20:29:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Need to open number 9.
20:29:37 >> Move to open.
20:29:38 >> Second.
20:29:38 (Motion carried).
20:29:39 >>PHIL SCHULZ: Land Development Coordination.
20:29:45 I have been sworn.
20:29:46 Item 9.
20:29:48 Zoning case Z 07-53.
20:29:52 East Tampa mixed use overlay district.
20:29:54 Located at 3010 and 3018 north 50th street.
20:30:00 Alan Dobbs is the petitioner.
20:30:02 This is Euclidean rezoning. The development review
20:30:05 committee reviewed the petition and finds the
20:30:06 application consistent with the applicable City of
20:30:08 Tampa codes.
20:30:10 There are no waivers requested, or permitted with this
20:30:14 The petitioner proposed to rezone the petition at 3010
20:30:19 and 3018 north 50th street from 16 to CG which
20:30:25 would allow for higher level intensity use on the
20:30:29 The 14,231 square feet site is located in an RM-16
20:30:34 zoning district and is adjacent to blocks containing a
20:30:38 mix of commercial, office and light industrial uses to
20:30:41 the north, east, and south, with multiple family
20:30:45 residential on both sides yards, and to the west.
20:30:48 This is Euclidean rezoning as I mentioned and
20:30:51 therefore it must comply with all regulations set
20:30:53 forth under that zoning and may not request any
20:30:57 waivers to the site.
20:31:00 Requirements for the a CG commercial district are as
20:31:02 follows: 10,000 square foot minimum lot size with a
20:31:05 75-foot front yard width, set back 10-foot front yard,
20:31:10 10-foot side yard, 10-foot rear yard, 10-foot corner
20:31:14 and maximum height of 45 feet.
20:31:16 Elmo, please.
20:31:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Phil, I thought you were going to
20:31:25 go to a different map. The current properties is
20:31:28 completely surrounded by millimeter 16?
20:31:31 >>> That's correct.
20:31:32 Elmo, please.
20:31:38 You can see the RM-16 on both sides.
20:31:41 CG to the north.
20:31:42 RO 1 to the north.
20:31:44 And CG also on the opposite side.
20:31:46 Actually the entire east side is C-1.
20:31:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What kind of uses can go there?
20:32:02 I have a little bit of concern in regard to whoever
20:32:04 owns that RM-16, multifamily, it's right immediately
20:32:08 adjacent to a CG which could be, what, a garage?
20:32:15 >>> Across the street you can have body shops.
20:32:18 And CI is more intensive.
20:32:20 >> Across the street.
20:32:21 >>> Well, 50th street has a medium remember, too.
20:32:25 That's brand new.
20:32:25 Very heavily trafficked.
20:32:29 >> I'm not saying the whole thing shouldn't be CG.
20:32:31 It probably should.
20:32:32 But my concern is, you have still got a vestige of
20:32:36 RM-16 and we are going to pop a CG in the middle of
20:32:39 Is that fair --
20:32:40 >>> Let me show you some photographs of that area
20:32:42 because I think you are going to see that a lot of it
20:32:44 is vacant land rate now.
20:32:47 And it's deteriorating single family, a lot of it
20:32:50 along 50th street.
20:32:52 I agree, when you go directly to the west, there are
20:32:57 residential uses in that area.
20:32:58 But this is area because of its proximity to I-4, in
20:33:05 the interchange here.
20:33:06 It's becoming very, very heavily trafficked.
20:33:09 I think the desire of an end user to put right on
20:33:16 50th street a residential multifamily might be a
20:33:24 >> I don't see it as 300 townhouses.
20:33:28 I'm just wondering if it's potentially affordable
20:33:30 housing, now, apartments --
20:33:33 >>> If there was some plottage done where you
20:33:35 assembled several parcels in there I can see that.
20:33:38 However, that hasn't occurred.
20:33:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
20:33:42 Fair enough.
20:33:44 >>> Again as I mentioned, here's 50th street.
20:33:50 49th street to the rear, some very large parcels.
20:33:53 A lot of this is vacant land up through here.
20:33:56 If you look at the aerial photo, you can see the
20:33:58 vacant parcels.
20:34:01 To the north of this park here, I think I gave you all
20:34:05 a copy of the aerial photo.
20:34:06 You can see the CI intensity over on the east side,
20:34:12 also all vacant land, mostly to the south.
20:34:15 There are some single-family homes there but they
20:34:21 appear to be abandoned.
20:34:23 Here's the subject parcel.
20:34:28 This is a for-sale sign right here.
20:34:32 And this house doesn't appear to be occupied.
20:34:38 I tried to find out but doesn't look very utilized.
20:34:42 This is directly opposite of the subject parcel.
20:34:45 Very intense, light industrial type uses, in a CI
20:34:52 And this is looking down 50th street to the
20:34:58 south -- excuse me, to the north.
20:35:00 I apologize.
20:35:01 And the area is in transition due to the high traffic
20:35:05 volume on 50th street.
20:35:07 If you have any questions, I would be glad to answer
20:35:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:Ed looked like there's some really
20:35:14 nice trees on this site.
20:35:15 >>> That is a concern, yes.
20:35:17 >> Okay.
20:35:17 I guess perhaps when the petitioner comes up they can
20:35:20 address the fact that they understand that under this
20:35:22 request, which is Euclidean, they cannot mess with the
20:35:26 >>> Yes, and please note in the petition -- in the
20:35:29 petition, this is actually two separate owners on
20:35:32 But they are rezoning it as one zoning parcel.
20:35:36 And they have sign attached to the petition that's
20:35:40 been recorded with the city, letter of intent, to
20:35:43 market those two parcels together so that they have
20:35:46 the minimum lot size of 10,000 square feet and the
20:35:49 total is 14.
20:35:50 So I want to point that out just for the record.
20:35:53 They would have to be marketed as one marketing
20:36:05 >>TONY GARCIA: Planning Commission staff.
20:36:07 I have been sworn.
20:36:15 I would like to follow Mr. Shultz with some supporting
20:36:18 additional comments about what he was talking about as
20:36:19 far as what he had, the requirement for this
20:36:24 particular area.
20:36:25 I think you can see from the land use categories it
20:36:27 bears out what the existing uses and kind of supports
20:36:30 On the eastern side of 50th street, 50th
20:36:33 street is a divided highway.
20:36:34 It's very heavily traveled, very close proximity to
20:36:37 the interstate over here.
20:36:40 And you have got several other transportation access
20:36:44 points here which is Melbourne Boulevard as well as
20:36:47 50th street.
20:36:49 Heavy commercial 24 on the eastern side.
20:36:51 District on the west side of 50th street is all
20:36:55 CMU 35, community mixed use problem, CM, CG uses, all
20:37:00 the way down.
20:37:01 As you can see you do have several pieces over here.
20:37:05 The end pieces along Melbourne which are CMU 35 and
20:37:09 you have again the heavy commercial 34 and then you
20:37:13 should go farther back over here, you have way farther
20:37:16 back about three blocks farther back you will go with
20:37:18 some R-10 and then you have R-20 over here.
20:37:21 I would have to kind of also agree with Mr. Shultz
20:37:25 regarding the potential of what would be going on in
20:37:30 the future as far as redevelopment is concerned, along
20:37:33 50th street.
20:37:34 It would be low density office, CG type of uses.
20:37:39 This is pretty much what you are going to direct onto
20:37:41 a major arterial road such as 15th street.
20:37:44 You are going to want to concentrate those type of
20:37:46 uses to 50th street, have access points to
20:37:50 50th street from over here.
20:37:53 And the good part about I think doing the CGA, and you
20:37:56 are correct about that, Mrs. Saul-Sena, is that this
20:37:58 is going to be much more stringent.
20:38:00 Downtown have any waivers here.
20:38:02 So whatever they are going to have to build they are
20:38:04 going to have to comply, of whatever the CG
20:38:06 requirements are as far as getting buffering
20:38:08 screening, they are not going to be able to get any
20:38:11 waivers for trees.
20:38:11 It's actually going to be much more stringent than the
20:38:16 That being said, I think you are going to have a lot
20:38:21 more protections.
20:38:22 And I do see the concerns for the trees.
20:38:24 As you can see over here, quite a few trees in this
20:38:28 particular area also.
20:38:29 It is RM-16 goes into here.
20:38:32 But you can't see the opportunity in the future, maybe
20:38:36 some other CGs, you do have tree issues here, and I
20:38:41 can't see -- there are a lot of vacant parcels here,
20:38:44 here, in this area, more residential redevelopment,
20:38:48 maybe of a higher intensity since you do have the R-20
20:38:52 category which would transition more into the single
20:38:54 family, one goes farther to the west.
20:38:56 Planning Commission staff had no objections based on
20:38:58 the location, and what this particular site is
20:39:01 directly abutting to the east more than to the south.
20:39:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: On the back corner of this
20:39:08 property, at 49th, there's a white -- down there.
20:39:17 You see the white.
20:39:19 Something or other there.
20:39:22 >>> The white something or other?
20:39:24 >> A house?
20:39:25 A mobile home?
20:39:26 >>> Yes.
20:39:30 >> Putting a Euclidean CG on the parcel that's being
20:39:34 recommended would allow ten-foot rear setback, okay?
20:39:42 45 feet tall.
20:39:47 So there is an actual use that's on the back
20:39:49 catter-corner of this, and potentially that's what we
20:39:53 would be allowing.
20:39:55 45-foot tall, ten foot off the rear property line,
20:39:58 without any buffering, without -- I.
20:40:03 >>> I mean, do you have screening that's required
20:40:05 under the CG.
20:40:06 >> Yes.
20:40:06 Standard screening.
20:40:07 But, I mean, that's one of the reasons -- like we hate
20:40:12 PDs but in this case when you have got an intense
20:40:14 use like 50th street, and then your next street
20:40:18 over is 49th.
20:40:20 And granted you might not have much going on right
20:40:22 now, but it's got a lot of potential because it's
20:40:25 still RM-16.
20:40:27 So, you know, I just have a little bit of problem with
20:40:29 the Euclidean, because it leaves so much unknown.
20:40:33 We don't know what the use is going to be.
20:40:35 You know, 45 feet tall, ten feet off that back
20:40:39 property line, et cetera, et cetera. Anyway, I'm just
20:40:41 sort of surprised nobody else had a problem with it.
20:40:44 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm sorry if you already told us this
20:40:47 but I may have -- but just north of there, when you
20:40:53 are looking at the -- yeah, the overhead.
20:40:58 War those little white spots, little rectangles?
20:41:10 >>> That's a small -- I looked at that on there.
20:41:13 >> That's what you thought was vacant that you showed
20:41:15 us but those are houses above there?
20:41:18 >>> Pretty much the opportunity that you would think
20:41:20 again what Mr. Dingfelder is alluding to as far as,
20:41:22 you know, some high density, you know, residential
20:41:26 potential there in the way of -- I don't know.
20:41:29 Anybody from a marketing aspect would want to come in,
20:41:32 you know, it's all predicated oh on one what someone
20:41:37 is willing to pay for a piece of property whether they
20:41:39 wanted to use it for residential, or office uses which
20:41:42 seems to be in the upswing currently.
20:41:45 That's what the market is Dick indicating.
20:41:46 Just looking at it from the a trend aspect.
20:41:49 Also with the PD, you come in with a PD, you can ask
20:41:52 for a higher height.
20:41:53 You can move the footprint of the building a little
20:41:55 So like you said, you love PDs and you hate PDs and
20:42:00 I kind of have to agree with you on that because off
20:42:04 lot more latitude.
20:42:05 >> At the end of the day we have a say on those issues
20:42:10 that you raised.
20:42:14 It just leaves so much latitude to do pretty much
20:42:17 whatever they want.
20:42:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
20:42:29 >>> My name a Alan Dobbs, 5011 north Suwannee Avenue.
20:42:35 I have been sworn.
20:42:35 I was approached by owners of these two parcels
20:42:39 because they owned them for awhile and haven't been
20:42:41 able to do anything with them.
20:42:43 I think they bought them as an investment and
20:42:45 residential doesn't work along 50th street, and if
20:42:49 we can go to the map.
20:42:53 I think the key operative term here is obsolescence.
20:43:00 50th street has changed dramatically.
20:43:03 The kind of street where residential multifamily or
20:43:10 any residential isn't going to be a viable alternative
20:43:12 for any kind of future development.
20:43:14 I talked to some of the surrounding property owners
20:43:16 and they were all very much in support of this.
20:43:19 Actually, the neighbor to the north has that vacant
20:43:30 The hopes is that when that property sells, either be
20:43:35 rezoned in the same fashion as this one, and all this
20:43:38 do could maybe be put together and do some commercial
20:43:43 The rezoning also, yes, commercial general, and yes,
20:43:47 it does abut residential but that's not uncommon, with
20:43:52 the Euclidean zoning we have to meet all the F.A.R.
20:43:56 requirements, lot coverage, retainage, and the like.
20:44:13 And I guess I summarized again we can see if we go
20:44:16 back to -- there's already been some commercial
20:44:26 But that's the nature of this street.
20:44:30 It's changing.
20:44:31 I think at one point, those plans kind of fell
20:44:39 So the area is very dynamic now.
20:44:43 All the houses in that RM-16 area are fairly run down
20:44:46 and I think that's because again residential is just
20:44:49 not really that viable as an alternative, sort of
20:44:52 transitioning especially along 50th street.
20:44:56 9 let me see if there's any opposition.
20:44:58 Does anyone in the public want to speak on number 9?
20:45:02 >> Move to close.
20:45:02 >> Second.
20:45:02 (Motion carried)
20:45:03 >>MARY MULHERN: Move to adopt the following ordinance,
20:45:26 an ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity
20:45:29 of 3010 and 3018 north 50th street in the city of
20:45:33 Tampa, Florida and more particularly described in
20:45:35 section 1 from zoning district classification RM-16
20:45:40 residential multifamily to CG commercial general
20:45:44 providing an effective date.
20:45:45 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
20:45:46 (Motion carried).
20:45:52 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder voting no.
20:45:56 >> Move to open.
20:45:57 (Motion carried).
20:45:59 >>PHIL SCHULZ: Land Development Coordination.
20:46:00 I have been sworn.
20:46:01 Item 10, rezoning case Z 07-55 in district 4, Hyde
20:46:07 Park neighborhood, 503 and 505 south Boulevard, the
20:46:14 development review committee has reviewed the petition
20:46:16 and have determined the application inconsistent with
20:46:19 the applicable City of Tampa codes.
20:46:23 The waivers requested are section 27-246, waiver to
20:46:26 reduce the drive aisles in the parking areas from 26
20:46:29 to 24.
20:46:31 Waiver 2, 27-242, waiver to reduce required parking
20:46:35 from 83 -- seven spaces.
20:46:39 Waiver 3, section 27-246, J, a waiver to allow
20:46:43 commercial traffic to access a local street, west
20:46:47 DeLeon street.
20:46:47 In summary the petitioner proposes to rezone the
20:46:50 property located at 503, 503 south Boulevard to
20:46:54 construct a mixed use development. The property
20:46:56 contains .98 acres and is located directly across from
20:47:00 gory elementary school.
20:47:02 The plan proposes four two or three bedroom
20:47:05 residential units that will be converted to
20:47:08 5,360 square feet of retail, 16,000 square feet of
20:47:13 office space. The project is required to have 83
20:47:17 sparkling spaces.
20:47:18 70 are provided with 19 compact, 27%, 48 standard and
20:47:22 3 handicapped spaces.
20:47:24 The proposed maximum height on the site plan and
20:47:26 elevations which by the way are attached to your site
20:47:30 plans provided is 45 feet to the building face and 57
20:47:39 to the penthouse. The Mediterranean revival
20:47:43 architecture style is intended to complicate other
20:47:46 structures in the Hyde Park national historic
20:47:48 However, the site is not within the local historic
20:47:51 district, and therefore not required to be reviewed by
20:47:54 the ARC.
20:47:58 Before we start the zoning I would like you to take a
20:48:01 look at the colorized version of the architectural
20:48:05 style, on the Elmo, please.
20:48:07 As you can see, it's got the parking incorporated
20:48:11 mostly in the internal side of the structure with a
20:48:17 very nice attractive walkway in the front, on the
20:48:20 side, where you have retail uses on the lower level,
20:48:24 that would hopefully be some kind of a coffee shop or
20:48:27 cafe to compliment the area.
20:48:32 The rezoning is located in three districts mentioned
20:48:38 We have PD in this area that was previously rezoned,
20:48:42 and a structure was torn down.
20:48:45 And if you look at the last page, Z 06 -- 2006, by the
20:48:55 way, commissioner Dingfelder -- 139, and that was just
20:48:58 for 503 south Boulevard to PD.
20:49:00 And that's the portion where the building was torn
20:49:05 down. The southern portion has two zoning district,
20:49:07 RO-1 and RM-24.
20:49:10 The RM-24 portion is currently the parking lot of the
20:49:13 office structure that you are going to hear shortly.
20:49:17 Here's the school, directly to the east.
20:49:22 To the north and south is this Boulevard.
20:49:25 This is DeLeon to the south.
20:49:27 And to the north here, you have Horatio.
20:49:32 It looks like an alley.
20:49:34 We are going to talk about that here in a few minutes
20:49:37 regarding the inconsistencies talked about by myself
20:49:43 and also Mr. Bryan gentry as far as the sidewalk is
20:49:47 It's very similar to the problem we had on Diana
20:49:49 street, also Nebraska, where it's so narrow, and the
20:49:53 drainage is such that there's no loom to put a
20:49:56 Unfortunately, the petitioner did not put a note
20:50:00 regarding that to pay a fee in lieu to the sidewalk
20:50:03 trust fund and we would like that to be put as a
20:50:06 change on the site plan when we get to that point.
20:50:11 This is the aerial photo showing the site.
20:50:14 Again this is an older aerial.
20:50:16 You can see the building that was torn down on the
20:50:18 north side. This is the existing office building here
20:50:20 on the south.
20:50:21 Here's Gorrie school.
20:50:24 We have an office to the south over here.
20:50:28 Quite a few -- well, Boulevard is very heavily
20:50:33 You are very familiar with that.
20:50:35 This is the subject parcel looking down -- this is
20:50:41 Edison street right here.
20:50:43 It's overgrown.
20:50:44 It like a jungle.
20:50:46 It's really almost a one-way, even though it's two way
20:50:53 that they share.
20:50:54 This is looking -- this is the existing office
20:51:00 building at the corner of DeLeon and Boulevard,
20:51:04 looking north.
20:51:06 Here is the parcel to the back of DeLeon, this is
20:51:14 the parking lot area, the subject parcel.
20:51:16 I apologize.
20:51:17 Across the street, here's Gorrie school.
20:51:20 Here is a converted office building.
20:51:27 This is on the southeast quadrant of Boulevard and
20:51:33 This is directly across the street, the northern one,
20:51:37 south of the subject parcel.
20:51:40 This is the northern parcel, the way it looks right
20:51:45 Not much there.
20:51:46 And this is looking north on Boulevard.
20:51:53 This is looking directly to the south of the gated
20:51:59 office area in the back.
20:52:00 Directly to the west, this is a very nice apartment
20:52:03 This portion here, this is a piece of Edison.
20:52:08 And this is looking directly down -- this is Edison
20:52:13 Excuse me, Edison is where I am standing.
20:52:15 This is the entrance into the apartment complex and
20:52:18 this is looking down to the west down DeLeon.
20:52:21 Transportation and myself both object.
20:52:24 And as you can see on our staff report, would have
20:52:27 some specific language that we would like added to the
20:52:30 plan regarding the sidewalk on Edison.
20:52:33 Also, Mary Daniels Bryce has some issues with the tree
20:52:41 They are minor changes that need to be made but they
20:52:43 do need to be made prior to the second reading.
20:52:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If those two changes are made does
20:52:48 that remove staff objections?
20:52:50 >>> Yes, it does.
20:52:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Planning Commission.
20:52:56 >>TONY GARCIA: Planning Commission staff.
20:52:59 I have been sworn.
20:53:01 We have revisited this not too long ago.
20:53:04 Of course, this was a vacant parcel right here.
20:53:07 And we have the medical office over here, gory, lovely
20:53:10 school, the development right there.
20:53:14 Pretty much all the residential 35 to residential 50.
20:53:20 Community mixed use 35 to the north.
20:53:23 And he did a fine job of showing you the surrounding
20:53:29 If you all had a chance ton see the -- I think you
20:53:34 have the illustrations of the site.
20:53:35 I think you will be -- pleasantly surprised with what
20:53:40 you are going to see.
20:53:41 I have seen one picture of it.
20:53:44 This is a live, work, vertically integrated use with
20:53:47 an urban feel to it on the corner, more of what I
20:53:51 think we like to see in the Hyde Park area.
20:53:54 It's definitely something that maximizes a space such
20:53:57 as this.
20:53:57 As far as the scale and the character of what you have
20:54:00 for this particular area and how you face, what we
20:54:03 already do have a lot of office, it will be very
20:54:06 pleasant to see more of this type of development in
20:54:08 the area.
20:54:09 Planning Commission staff has no objections to this
20:54:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
20:54:24 >>> Mark Solen. I'm here tonight representing Hyde
20:54:30 Park Square.
20:54:31 First of all, I have not been sworn.
20:54:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I might want ton ask if anyone else
20:54:37 for the remaining items tonight --
20:54:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Anyone who has not been sworn, if you
20:54:42 would please stand and raise your right hand.
20:54:44 (Oath administered by Clerk).
20:54:45 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Again ladies and gentlemen, to speed
20:54:49 things along when you state your name, thank you for
20:54:51 reaffirming that you have not only been sworn, but if
20:54:54 you have, please state that you have.
20:54:56 >>> My name is Tom moody.
20:54:58 You are probably used to seeing Dennis Johnson, one of
20:55:03 my partners.
20:55:04 Dennis is very ill tonight.
20:55:06 I hoped to have him walk in the door any minute but he
20:55:08 apparently is not going to be able to so we will do
20:55:11 the best we can to go through the product with you.
20:55:13 Also, with me is Ralph Shure and the architect.
20:55:20 As far as location, we are all pretty much familiar
20:55:22 with that.
20:55:26 >> Do you know if you have any objections?
20:55:28 >>> There's none that we are aware of.
20:55:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that came
20:55:31 to object to item number 10?
20:55:33 Any objection on item 10?
20:55:36 >> Thank you very much.
20:55:36 Looks very nice.
20:55:37 Move to close the public hearing.
20:55:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Hold up the picture so we know.
20:55:42 >>PHIL SCHULZ: Do you want to plan on one thing?
20:55:49 They have gone from Mediterranean to bungalow style.
20:55:52 When they -- am I right?
20:55:59 >> (off microphone)
20:56:00 Oh, he was faking me out.
20:56:04 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a question.
20:56:13 The transportation note.
20:56:18 I'm not clear on why the sidewalk is not feasible and
20:56:27 why it says in here that City Council has determined
20:56:32 construction of a sidewalk is not feasible.
20:56:36 >>> Brian gentry, transportation.
20:56:38 I have been sworn.
20:56:40 The problem is, sidewalks need to be placed or pay the
20:56:45 in lieu fee.
20:56:46 Edison like they said, functions more of an alley, but
20:56:51 it is technically a street.
20:56:52 This language was drafted by Julia Cole and it just
20:56:56 general language that I keep when the situation
20:57:00 The petitioner to put this note on the plan.
20:57:04 However, it wasn't -- still asking that it go on
20:57:08 Because it is technically a street.
20:57:10 And I think that would probably be more of a legal
20:57:12 question as to if you have any room to --
20:57:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The bottom line if there's no ram
20:57:20 on the so-called street to put in a sidewalk.
20:57:23 >>> Correct.
20:57:28 >> We didn't determine that, they determined that.
20:57:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: A couple other quick questions.
20:57:32 There's a median on the site plan.
20:57:33 Are you installing and maintaining the median?
20:57:37 >>> It is our intent to actually construct a number of
20:57:39 the off-site improvements that were shown, including
20:57:42 the parallel parking, one on the DeLeon landscaping,
20:57:48 we would like to install or help install or in some
20:57:53 way be involved with the improvements to the median.
20:57:58 All have to be approved by transportation.
20:58:00 We noted that on the plan as well.
20:58:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm really familiar with this area
20:58:05 and I think the addition of a median would be great in
20:58:08 terms of traffic calming and making it safer for
20:58:11 people to cross the street, encouraging people to walk
20:58:14 there rather than drive.
20:58:15 So I think it's a really good thing and I guess I want
20:58:18 to hear from my transportation people that you are
20:58:19 going to commit to work with them and make this
20:58:27 >>> Bryan gentry, transportation.
20:58:28 I think they added as a note they were willing to work
20:58:31 with us.
20:58:32 I don't think it's real clear as to exactly how --
20:58:36 obviously would go through the right-of-way permitting
20:58:38 process and someone was looking at it at that point in
20:58:42 It may be okay.
20:58:43 They may not approve it.
20:58:45 They may not allow it.
20:58:47 There's a crosswalk there for the children at the
20:58:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This is a question for our legal.
20:58:56 How do we move this ahead?
20:58:57 If council thinks that the median is a really good
20:59:00 thing, what do we do?
20:59:02 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
20:59:07 Donna Wysong went to the restroom.
20:59:11 However, in chapter 22 dealing with streets and
20:59:15 sidewalks and transportation, and transportation
20:59:16 technical standards, it's very clear that anything
20:59:19 placed within the right-of-way is at the discretion of
20:59:21 the transportation manager and the director of public
20:59:24 works because they are charged with making sure that
20:59:27 anything that goes within the right-of-way needs
20:59:29 visibility in our technical standard.
20:59:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: How do we make it happen?
20:59:36 Request the administration to look at the installation
20:59:40 of the median here, because the petitioner is going to
20:59:43 pick up part of the tab?
20:59:45 Do we need as part of this petition to nail down how
20:59:51 much of the tab they are going to pick up?
20:59:58 >>> It is right-of-way element number 3, developer
21:00:00 proposes to assist the city with possible construction
21:00:02 or maintenance of landscape median in south Boulevard
21:00:06 as depicted herein:
21:00:13 >> "Assist" is rather broad.
21:00:19 >>> May I respond?
21:00:20 We do on the notes commit to doing -- performing all
21:00:23 the other improvements.
21:00:26 The median is a little bit of a loss.
21:00:27 We don't know exactly what the city wants to put in
21:00:30 If we are talking about extremely expensive trees or
21:00:34 what have you.
21:00:35 We just don't have a real good handle on what that's
21:00:38 going to be.
21:00:39 We will commit to doing the work, installing the
21:00:42 landscape and such in there.
21:00:46 But if we can get a little more control, over what
21:00:49 exactly the city may want to have us put in.
21:00:54 So it's a an open ended number if we don't know what
21:00:59 the particulars are going to be.
21:01:00 >> Well, we have this great new rule between first and
21:01:03 second hearing Weaver this opportunity to get refined
21:01:06 So I guess what I ask is that I feel like your intent
21:01:10 is honorable.
21:01:11 I want to get it down a little more crisply.
21:01:14 But would you work with our legal department to refine
21:01:18 your language.
21:01:19 It sounds to me like you are committing to installing
21:01:21 reasonable landscaping and that you are contributing
21:01:26 to the creation of the median.
21:01:30 >>> Yes.
21:01:30 We would commit to that.
21:01:33 I would add one other thing about the payment in lieu
21:01:36 of fee for the Edison street, which is the alley, or
21:01:40 street behind our property.
21:01:43 That usual you came up somewhat late in the game so we
21:01:46 were a little bit -- didn't know how to respond to
21:01:49 Essentially we are committing all of the plans to
21:01:52 comply with all of the city codes.
21:01:53 We are not looking for any waiver from that.
21:01:55 However, you know, deeming that to be a street versus
21:02:00 alley is a little tough to swallow if we cannot
21:02:04 actually go back and construct a sidewalk.
21:02:15 Our other option is to write a check for $7,000.
21:02:18 Before we take that $7,000 and pay that, I don't even
21:02:21 know if that's possible within the parameters we're
21:02:23 talking about here, but I don't want to muddy the
21:02:26 But rather than doing all the work and cutting a
21:02:30 check, if there's any way to put the two together.
21:02:39 >> I think it's actually a very feasible discussion
21:02:41 suggestion. We don't have to put in this note about
21:02:43 the sidewalk.
21:02:46 And if we want to instead enhance the note about the
21:02:49 median, to say that, you know, subject to the approval
21:02:54 of the city, you will construct a median.
21:02:58 I think it's the construction that's much bigger
21:03:00 expense than the landscaping of the median, you know,
21:03:03 because you have got to cut it, you have to concrete
21:03:05 it, you have to plan it, you have to everything.
21:03:09 So I think we need to get away -- if you are real
21:03:12 serious about the median and we want to be serious
21:03:15 about dropping the sidewalk issue, why can't we --
21:03:20 >>> I don't believe your code can allow you to drop
21:03:22 the sidewalk without payment in lieu.
21:03:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No, no, no.
21:03:29 >>CHAIRMAN: Go ahead.
21:03:31 >>> Donna Wysong, assistant city attorney.
21:03:35 You cannot waive that.
21:03:37 The sidewalk in lieu fee cannot be waived.
21:03:40 That's by code.
21:03:41 And if he they don't want to pay it that's the basis
21:03:45 for denial.
21:03:49 >> Are we sure this is a street?
21:03:51 It looks like we are making the determination this is
21:03:53 a street.
21:03:57 It's an alley that goes to Wilson.
21:04:02 It's a Wilson pickup alley.
21:04:04 >>> Inasmuch as our staff has determined that it's a
21:04:06 street, and therefore requires a sidewalk, then we
21:04:10 can't --
21:04:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I understand -- it's a street
21:04:17 because it's platted.
21:04:18 Nobody uses it.
21:04:20 It's a one-way to pick up children at Wilson.
21:04:26 >>> I didn't realize that.
21:04:28 >> One.
21:04:28 Number two, that's the only street, if it is a street,
21:04:30 that has no markings.
21:04:33 There is not one marking on that street that says slow
21:04:37 down, 25 mile-an-hour limit.
21:04:39 They don't have a speed.
21:04:40 They don't have nothing. The reason I know that, the
21:04:42 property that was demolished is where my doctor used
21:04:46 to go to that I go to and he moved over to Swann.
21:04:49 So these people are responsible for using more gas.
21:05:02 It's a dedicated street.
21:05:04 But that's the -- maybe it's another's street.
21:05:08 But that's the only street that I know of that doesn't
21:05:11 have any marking that says slow down, or, you know, I
21:05:16 don't recall it.
21:05:17 And then it looks like a cage.
21:05:23 >>> I know, it's unfortunate, it may actually
21:05:33 >> Very simple, they pay money into the sidewalk.
21:05:36 That's very nice.
21:05:36 Then the city keeps that -- never mind what the city
21:05:42 has and then they get that from another -- not from
21:05:44 the sidewalk.
21:05:54 The median on Boulevard and this the problem is
21:05:56 It's not that difficult.
21:06:06 You get the money.
21:06:07 You build your sidewalks.
21:06:08 The other pocket you get the money built into the
21:06:11 That's it.
21:06:24 Ybor City math.
21:06:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If that could be agreed to by the
21:06:27 petitioner, and that is clear in the motion with
21:06:29 regard to direction for notes for the site plan, it
21:06:33 can be brought back if council so chooses to approve
21:06:36 it on first reading and bring back the certified plan
21:06:39 at second reading if that's council's pleasure.
21:06:41 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm.
21:06:49 I can't believe that I forgot that I have driven many,
21:06:53 many times to pick up at Wilson the alley so I'm
21:06:56 sorry, I didn't remember that.
21:06:57 I'll be back there in a few years with my next kid.
21:07:00 But this brings up another question for me, in that we
21:07:12 are asking for parking waivers.
21:07:14 I know there's nowhere to park as a parent when you
21:07:17 need to visit the school.
21:07:21 It was always a problem.
21:07:23 In fact I have been run out of those parking lots when
21:07:25 I had a council at school.
21:07:33 This was sandwiched between middle school and the
21:07:40 elementary school.
21:07:41 And one thing that I have never understood, maybe
21:07:43 people who were on the council next door, you are
21:07:47 asking for retail here, and next door to Wilson for
21:07:50 years, the middle school, it was a thousand beers or
21:08:00 two thousand?
21:08:01 I always wondered how the wet zoning happened but
21:08:04 could you practically touch the side of that beer
21:08:07 store from the school.
21:08:08 So I'm concerned that we are opening this new
21:08:11 development up to retail and I want to make sure it's
21:08:15 something appropriate to be facing an elementary
21:08:19 school, and having the middle school behind it.
21:08:22 So I'm not sure how consistent this is with the
21:08:26 I have a problem with a waiver for reducing the
21:08:30 parking spaces, because I know there's parking
21:08:34 problems in that neighborhood already, in the waiver
21:08:39 to allow commercial traffic on DeLeon.
21:08:42 It's a very, very busy area there, because of the
21:08:47 So I think we might want to think about that.
21:08:50 And I'm also wondering at this point, this is a
21:08:54 three-story building.
21:08:57 And I'd like to know if the other buildings in the
21:08:59 area -- if this is going to be the tallest building
21:09:05 >>> Yes, it will be one of the taller buildings in the
21:09:07 area, similar to Gorrie school across the way.
21:09:11 >> Gorrie is three stories?
21:09:13 >>> 45 feet in height in one spot and there are
21:09:15 some -- one tower that is probably 52 feet.
21:09:22 This is a little taller, yes.
21:09:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I can address that if wee I may.
21:09:28 Council approved a six-story building catter-corner
21:09:31 across the street from this immediately to the north
21:09:33 of Gorrie.
21:09:35 So it isn't there now but it's been approved.
21:09:37 And the reason that I voted to approve it even though
21:09:39 that's pretty tall is because it was unbelievably
21:09:42 attractive, and I really see this as being a real
21:09:46 first new urbanist neighborhood.
21:09:48 I mean, we have got walkability.
21:09:51 You have got offices and stores and houses, densely
21:09:58 across the street.
21:09:59 And I think that there's going to be a lot of
21:10:02 pedestrian traffic.
21:10:03 And what I would expect that would you install, though
21:10:05 I didn't see it on the site plan, would be bike racks.
21:10:10 I think that would be a key component if you want to
21:10:13 create that new urbanist use.
21:10:16 >>> Yes, ma'am, there are a few bike racks shown on
21:10:17 the site plan.
21:10:18 In response to the question about the retail, it's
21:10:23 under Bryan what that would be but complimentary or
21:10:28 ancillary retail for the offices.
21:10:30 Actually, a lot of the -- the retail idea came from to
21:10:35 some extent in discussion with the neighbors was going
21:10:38 through the rezoning earlier in the year, to make it a
21:10:42 There's a lot of offices and teachers and things like
21:10:44 that, the coffee shop or sandwich, take-out.
21:10:51 As far as the parking, one of the other things about
21:10:54 that is we are looking to include six parking spaces,
21:10:58 not counting towards the total, because they are out
21:11:00 parallel parking along DeLeon.
21:11:02 And again, the parking, looking at the raw parking
21:11:06 numbers, and you are not taking into account the
21:11:09 shared parking between mixed uses and this type of
21:11:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Other questions?
21:11:19 We need to close the public hearing.
21:11:23 >> Move to close.
21:11:23 >> Second.
21:11:24 (Motion carried)
21:11:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'd like to move to approve this
21:11:28 with the understanding that legal and transportation
21:11:31 will work with the petitioner in the next two weeks to
21:11:34 see if they can fix up the language about the
21:11:37 petitioner's commitment to the median.
21:11:40 >> Second.
21:11:41 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
21:11:42 I am going to need more clarification in order to
21:11:45 clarify the site plan.
21:11:46 You will need to state the motion specifically as to
21:11:48 what you actually would desire on the site plan.
21:11:51 They are required for minor site plan change to submit
21:11:53 the site plan within seven days from today.
21:11:57 So actually a specific motion to certify.
21:12:03 The petitioner already has the note on the site plan
21:12:05 that says something sort of broad like they'll
21:12:08 contribute to the creation of the median.
21:12:10 And what they said at the meeting is that they are
21:12:16 further clarifying that by installing the landscaping.
21:12:24 Honestly, I'd like -- and assisting in the
21:12:29 construction of the median.
21:12:33 The petitioner is nodding.
21:12:34 We all heard this on the tape, talked about -- and
21:12:38 come back to us with better words.
21:12:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll second it but you also need to
21:12:45 add the two other provision that is staff has
21:12:51 >>> Corrections and --
21:12:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: They are in your reports.
21:12:53 Incorporate them from your report.
21:12:56 >> Second.
21:12:57 >> I second that.
21:12:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Would you read the ordinance then?
21:12:59 >>> Move an ordinance rezoning property in the general
21:13:01 vicinity of 503 and 505 south Boulevard in the city of
21:13:06 Tampa, Florida more particularly described in section
21:13:08 1 through zoning district classifications RM-24
21:13:11 residential multifamily, RO-1 professional office and
21:13:14 PD, planned development, to PD, planned development,
21:13:18 mixed use retail office and retail, providing an
21:13:20 effective date.
21:13:23 >>> Before you vote I need to restate that I need a
21:13:25 clearer motion to certify.
21:13:26 The only way the certification is going to work, this
21:13:28 process, I need a very clear motion to certify.
21:13:32 It not something that I can play with for the next two
21:13:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just say what you are willing to do
21:13:40 with the median.
21:13:43 Unfortunately, we wanted to help with you the sidewalk
21:13:45 but staff is not giving us a break on that.
21:13:48 >> Regarding the median?
21:13:51 Within the confines that transportation allows us, we
21:13:55 will commit to constructing the median.
21:14:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: To construct and landscape the
21:14:04 median on south Boulevard immediately east of the
21:14:11 >>> We will work with transportation on the language.
21:14:14 >>GWEN MILLER: That's okay?
21:14:15 >>> That's fine.
21:14:16 Thank you.
21:14:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
21:14:17 (Motion carried).
21:14:20 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern voting no.
21:14:25 >> Move to open.
21:14:26 >> Second.
21:14:27 (Motion carried).
21:14:30 >> Number 11.
21:14:32 >>> Last item on the agenda tonight, I have some
21:14:34 housekeeping to take care of on this, however.
21:14:38 I have an affidavit signed by the mayor today.
21:14:45 I received this at 4:45 regarding this particular
21:14:48 project which requires the sale of an existing lift
21:14:51 station and relocating that lift station on the job
21:14:55 I have a copy for legal, a copy for the clerk, and a
21:14:57 copy for counsel that you can provide you.
21:15:20 Also, I can hand out to you a supplement to the -- to
21:15:24 amend my staff report.
21:15:27 These items have been negotiated over the last 13 days
21:15:31 between the zoning administrator, the petitioner, and
21:15:35 various other VRC members.
21:15:38 So these are notes that we would like added to the
21:15:41 plan that will supplement my report as we proceed.
21:15:48 Rezoning petition Z 07-59, district 6, Beach Park, is
21:15:53 the closest neighborhood.
21:15:55 The address is 402 north Reo street, 5598, 5510, 5512
21:16:05 West Gray Street.
21:16:06 Development review committee has reviewed the petition
21:16:08 and determined that the application is inconsistent
21:16:10 with the City of Tampa code as of the date of this
21:16:14 Waiver fee requested, and that is supplemented by the
21:16:18 way from my amendment so we have to go through that in
21:16:20 some detail here this evening.
21:16:22 Waiver number 1 per section 27-246-H-1, a waiver to
21:16:27 allow service vehicles to maneuver in the public
21:16:32 Number 2, section 27-246, waiver to reduce drive ails
21:16:36 and parking garages from 26 to 24 feet.
21:16:39 Section 20.5-3, a waiver to allow wall signs placed on
21:16:43 the side of the buildings that do not face public
21:16:48 And I want to point out at this time, there's an
21:16:51 additional comment that we would like on both the
21:16:55 signage, the phasing notes that are on the site plan,
21:17:01 which are on the amendments to my staff report, and
21:17:06 also on the signage, a specific recommendation to
21:17:10 council which may want to discuss in more detail later
21:17:13 on, we are recommending a maximum of 400 square foot
21:17:17 sign with a vertical height not to exceed seven feet.
21:17:22 And I would like to either -- I have incorporated that
21:17:26 with the elevation.
21:17:27 Elmo, please.
21:17:28 And this is what the sign would look like in scale and
21:17:31 mass in relationship to the proposed structure, so you
21:17:37 can see it still 400 square feet is not substantial.
21:17:41 And we are asking that this be added to the site plan
21:17:45 in elevation as part of the notes to be added to this
21:17:49 plan prior to the submission of the final documents
21:17:54 for your approval.
21:17:58 >> Where is your supplemental report?
21:18:00 >>> I handed it out.
21:18:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Is this the only one?
21:18:05 >> No.
21:18:06 There's several of them.
21:18:07 There's five or six.
21:18:12 >>GWEN MILLER: He passed them on down.
21:18:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No.
21:18:17 >> It looks like this.
21:18:23 >> We didn't print one out for everyone.
21:18:27 >> It would be helpful.
21:18:28 >>> We'll get some more made.
21:18:34 We're good.
21:18:35 >>> Petitioner proposes to rezone the property located
21:18:38 at 402 north Reo street, 5598, 5510 and 5512 West Gray
21:18:43 Street to planned development to construct an office
21:18:47 complex with related retail development based on other
21:18:51 use as loud in an MAP-3 and M.A.P. 4 zoning district.
21:18:55 The property contains 9.08 acres approximately two
21:18:59 city blocks, the subject parcel is surrounded by Tampa
21:19:02 Bay on the west, and other private and public
21:19:06 corporate office complexes on the north, south, and
21:19:10 The proposal to remove five existing office buildings
21:19:14 totaling 106,585 square feet and replacing them with
21:19:19 three office buildings containing a total of 593,286
21:19:25 square feet, which is a 1.48 floor area ratio, 1.5
21:19:31 floor area ratio is allowed. The project is required
21:19:34 to have 1,958 parking spaces.
21:19:38 However, 3,126 parking spaces are provided in a
21:19:42 structured parking garage that is 73 feet in height.
21:19:45 I want to point out at this time that the reason for
21:19:48 that is that this is a corporate headquartered type
21:19:52 complex that requires more than what our code
21:19:56 That's why the petitioner has put in more parking.
21:19:59 The project is providing more parking than is required
21:20:03 per code.
21:20:04 The proposed maximum height stated on the site plan
21:20:07 and elevations are 92 feet for the buildings 1 and 2
21:20:10 and 137 for building 3.
21:20:13 These Heights have been reviewed and approved by the
21:20:16 Hillsborough County aviation authority per the
21:20:18 attached letter dated June 11, 2007, to my staff
21:20:22 reports which you have a copy.
21:20:24 I provided you with three copies here tonight. The
21:20:27 project is subject to final permitting from FAA and
21:20:31 The architectural style is contemporary in design and
21:20:34 intended to compliment similar structures in the area.
21:20:36 The project's orientation is towards Tampa Bay rather
21:20:39 than the public right-of-way due to the type of
21:20:43 prospects recruited for this site.
21:20:46 Land Development Coordination feels this is
21:20:48 inconsistent with several items that are listed in the
21:20:52 One specifically is the signage waiver, specified in
21:20:57 the amendment to our plans, what we feel needs to be
21:21:00 done to resolve that, and we are recommending that be
21:21:03 a specific stated motion by council.
21:21:11 And we have already talked to the petitioner and they
21:21:12 are willing to make those notes.
21:21:15 The second is -- and the phasing per section 27-326-6,
21:21:20 again the petitioner has agreed to this.
21:21:22 We would like them to embellish and enhance the
21:21:26 information provided to us regarding the urban
21:21:31 And we want to point out to council, on note 11, page
21:21:35 3 of the site plan, that they have agreed to all of
21:21:38 the requirements of chapter 13, and doing 80% opacity
21:21:45 on the parking garage.
21:21:55 Elmo, please.
21:21:56 I would like to orient you a little if I may to the
21:21:58 location of the site.
21:22:00 I am going to try to zoom in, some other aerial
21:22:05 This is Tampa International Airport to the north, and
21:22:10 you have red dots on here.
21:22:11 This is the site on Reo.
21:22:14 And getting in a little closer.
21:22:16 Here you can see, here's our subject parcel.
21:22:22 And getting a little closer.
21:22:25 Unfortunately, this is an older aerial photo.
21:22:29 This is the current FBI building.
21:22:34 There's a parking facility across the way.
21:22:36 The subject property is bounded by Gray Street on the
21:22:40 north, Reo here on the east, executive drive, south to
21:22:45 Tampa Bay on the west.
21:22:54 This is not an overlay district so there are no design
21:23:00 The zoning, this is PD of upper northern portion.
21:23:05 The area surrounding here is all M.A.P. 4, to the
21:23:10 south of 275 is OP-1.
21:23:14 OP-1, we have more M.A.P. 4 to the east in the upper
21:23:20 northern quadrant here.
21:23:25 Here is a picture of the main entrance of the subject
21:23:27 parcel is going to be torn down.
21:23:30 And I'll let the petitioner talk to you.
21:23:35 This is a corner of Reo to your left and Gray Street
21:23:39 to the front.
21:23:41 The bottom picture is looking down towards the west
21:23:44 down Gray Street.
21:23:46 And you can see this area, by the way, that the trees
21:23:48 are dominantly -- except for the east and north side
21:23:54 and Mary Daniel Bryson is providing the clients with
21:23:58 some trees that are shade trees that are more salt
21:24:03 And she has developed a list.
21:24:06 And the client was happy to incorporate that into the
21:24:10 landscape sign, due to the fact of location in
21:24:14 proximity, were more apt to survive.
21:24:22 This is the backside of the main building.
21:24:24 They fenced off that area they would like to tear
21:24:28 down, the westerly portion of it.
21:24:36 Here is the western, all fenced in, getting ready for
21:24:42 And you can see again through the fence, the area, the
21:24:46 brand new building to the south of the property, and
21:24:51 again this is the subject parcel right here, not newer
21:24:58 This is a building directly to the east of the subject
21:25:03 This is looking down executive drive towards Tampa
21:25:07 This is a brand new complex to the south.
21:25:19 This is Reo.
21:25:20 Our dead-end is gray street.
21:25:24 Can't get there from here.
21:25:28 Also, this is north.
21:25:33 Northeast corner of Reo street, and gray.
21:25:40 This is directly to the north of the subject parcel.
21:25:43 As you can see, this has changed hands.
21:25:46 Parcels in there now.
21:25:49 This is another corporate structure directly to the
21:25:51 north and this is the entrance of the FBI building.
21:25:57 If there are any other questions, we would ask that
21:26:00 the amended supplement that's been provided to you be
21:26:05 specifically stated on those changes, if the
21:26:08 petitioner is willing to accept those and incorporate
21:26:11 those into the site plan.
21:26:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Quick question.
21:26:16 Has there been any provision made for connectivity in
21:26:19 terms of bicyclists if somebody wanted to go from here
21:26:24 to cypress point park or something like that?
21:26:30 Or for pedestrians?
21:26:35 >>> Yes.
21:26:35 As you can see on the site plan, which is the
21:26:37 colorized version, can you see very well?
21:26:41 >> Yes.
21:26:41 >>> You can see that they are proposing a bicycle --
21:26:47 or sidewalk all the way around the perimeter of the
21:26:49 property, and through the urban courtyard here.
21:26:54 And it's got the connection in from the parking
21:26:58 structure where they got places, specific nodes where
21:27:05 they have places where people could park their bikes
21:27:07 or lock up their bikes in these areas.
21:27:10 But the dominant feature you can see is a different
21:27:15 type of paver being used.
21:27:18 The exterior sidewalk, internal use of the layout so
21:27:27 we do have that sidewalk area, you know, around the
21:27:31 periphery of that.
21:27:36 And the urban court yard, they have some better
21:27:38 pictures to show you.
21:27:42 And a little larger.
21:27:49 Does that answer your question?
21:27:51 >> Yes.
21:27:52 >>> Anything else?
21:27:52 >>TONY GARCIA: Planning Commission staff.
21:28:04 I have been sworn.
21:28:05 Two additional comments and you are going to have a
21:28:07 series of speakers coming up.
21:28:09 Just a couple of things as relates to the comp plan.
21:28:13 Land use category from the area.
21:28:15 Of course, this is the M.A.P. land use category,
21:28:19 recreation, open space here.
21:28:21 Regional mixed use 100 to the south.
21:28:23 This is of course right on the edge of the Westshore
21:28:26 mixed use, Westshore plaza on the other side.
21:28:34 Southeast of the site, on the other side over here.
21:28:37 Here is the Kennedy Boulevard ramp going down to the
21:28:40 Internet state.
21:28:44 It was an office complex. This is probably one of the
21:28:46 oldest office complexes in the Westshore area.
21:28:49 It's probably at least 40 years old.
21:28:51 So it's long overdue for some kind of renovation for
21:28:55 this area.
21:28:56 You as you do know there has been a lot of development
21:28:58 pressure recently as you will see in the weeks ahead,
21:29:01 that you will probably see a couple of other projects
21:29:05 coming in for a person with this type of use.
21:29:09 This of course we all know cypress.
21:29:11 As you come to cypress one of the major corporate park
21:29:14 areas in the City of Tampa, as you can see, quite a
21:29:19 bit of corporate offers retail park activities in the
21:29:23 Planning Commission staff, based upon the location of
21:29:26 the site, uses within the area, the proximity to one
21:29:31 of the major retail centers, employment centers in the
21:29:33 area, has in a objections to this proposed request.
21:29:38 >>CHAIRMAN: Petitioner?
21:29:43 >> Good evening Madam Chairman and members of City
21:29:46 I'm John LaRocca, Murphy LaRocca consulting, East
21:29:51 Kennedy Boulevard and I have been sworn.
21:29:53 Without sounding presumptuous, I think those that are
21:29:56 left in the room this evening are all petitioners
21:29:59 representatives or those that have been involved in
21:30:02 the process.
21:30:03 And we this evening would like or are prepared to make
21:30:09 a presentation, the developer-applicant has put
21:30:11 together a project team assembling local pal talent,
21:30:17 those that are here this evening addition to myself,
21:30:20 Rhea Law and Andrea Zelman of the Fowler White law
21:30:23 firm, the partners involved with the developer, Eric
21:30:28 Sheila and Rick purchase are hear to address any
21:30:32 comments regarding their proposal, why they have made
21:30:33 this investment in Tampa.
21:30:38 White house adviser is an adviser to the project.
21:30:41 Architects, Alfonzo architect, Carlos Marino, and
21:30:47 Jeremy couch with Mike couch and associates and Mike
21:30:50 gates with Links and associates, all have participated
21:30:52 in development of the plan and the proposal that's
21:30:56 before you this evening.
21:30:58 My role in the job has been to assist in processing
21:31:01 the application and ensuring that it was handled in a
21:31:05 timely manner and coordinated amongst all the parties.
21:31:09 Phil talked about a lot of items that have been added
21:31:12 or proposed, to offer consistency this evening, and I
21:31:17 think if I can sum up this comment, and we'll verify
21:31:20 this by other presenters this evening on the team, is
21:31:22 that with all of these matters or additional items
21:31:26 that have been offered to you for consideration, I
21:31:28 believe we have met any of the concerns or objections
21:31:33 or inconsistencies that we have worked through the
21:31:37 I'll leave it at that and introduce Rhea Law who will
21:31:41 talk a little more about the project and introduce
21:31:43 some of the other members.
21:31:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anybody in opposition?
21:31:50 Against or for?
21:31:55 >> For but we want to ensure that certain things --
21:31:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay, come up and speak.
21:32:05 >> If she wants to go ahead.
21:32:07 >> I have been sworn.
21:32:21 We worked very closely with city staff and I do want
21:32:23 to also introduce Alita McMillan from the aviation
21:32:29 authority who was kind enough to come tonight but we
21:32:31 also reached out to the Beach Park homeowners
21:32:33 association and there were a number of items about
21:32:35 office development in general and the Beach Park area
21:32:37 that they were concerned about, and they asked us to
21:32:40 add notes on the site plan that basically were all
21:32:43 things that the developer was intends to do anyway,
21:32:46 such as using reclaimed water, and providing a shuttle
21:32:52 service for the tenants if the tenants needed to go to
21:32:54 lunch and things like that.
21:32:56 So they just asked us to add some additional notes to
21:32:59 the site plan and we have given them to Cathy, and she
21:33:05 was going to just ask you to make a motion to also
21:33:07 allow us to amend the site plan to include those, and
21:33:11 just concerned again.
21:33:12 I think John said it but we did agree to all the
21:33:15 additional site plan notes that Phil asked for as
21:33:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Did she mention what you want to hear,
21:33:21 Ms. Vizzi?
21:33:22 Did she mention what you wanted to hear?
21:33:28 >>MARGARET VIZZI: 213 south Sherill.
21:33:30 We just wanted to be sure that all of them are on
21:33:41 Margaret Vizzi, 213 south Sherill.
21:33:43 I just wanted to quickly say that it was really rather
21:33:47 surprising to us that we were listed as neighborhood
21:33:50 But on the aerial, we are.
21:33:53 We are on the other side of the interstate.
21:33:55 As I started looking at this when they approached us
21:33:58 to review it, I wanted to make sure that the building
21:34:01 heights didn't go above the aviation authority Heights
21:34:06 limits because then we could have been adversely
21:34:12 Last week you all had a little bit of a discussion
21:34:14 about the impacts of everything that's happening in
21:34:20 the Westshore area from the neighborhood or
21:34:26 surrounding it, which surrounds us, I should say.
21:34:29 So the reason that when they brought up the shuttle to
21:34:34 shuttle their -- the future of people who will be
21:34:38 working there to the two malls, we thought that was a
21:34:43 good idea, but they didn't have that on their plan.
21:34:45 So they did agree to put that.
21:34:48 They agreed with us that putting down reclaimed water
21:34:52 would be a good thing to do.
21:34:57 And the -- let's see.
21:35:03 Oh, and the amenities that they offered, also, which
21:35:06 were not on their plans right there in the building
21:35:10 which the people could go to lunch right there instead
21:35:12 of going out and causing more traffic in that whole
21:35:17 area because anyone who is in that area at lunch time
21:35:19 knows that it's even worse than in the mornings,
21:35:22 because the traffic is so bad.
21:35:24 So basically, what I would like to say is that this
21:35:27 developer has been wonderful to talk with, and for
21:35:33 them to agree that these things should be put on the
21:35:35 plan, and we are happy to be here to support it.
21:35:41 Also, they will be putting in, I think, it's about
21:35:45 $55,000 into that neighborhood improvement fund so
21:35:49 that we in the neighborhoods can have some additional
21:35:55 improvements in sidewalks and street signs, et cetera.
21:35:59 So and that goes for all the neighborhoods, five
21:36:02 neighborhoods, that are included in that Westshore.
21:36:04 It's not only Beach Park.
21:36:06 It's as was stated last week, I was not happy when I
21:36:10 heard that because there are five neighborhoods that
21:36:12 benefit by those funds.
21:36:13 So basically, I just want to say that I do support it,
21:36:18 and we'll be looking forward to seeing the
21:36:23 improvements over there.
21:36:23 Thank you.
21:36:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Any questions from council members?
21:36:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Madam Chair, I did receive a letter
21:36:31 from Amy and I read it and I think it says what you
21:36:36 stated just two seconds earlier. The $55,000 I
21:36:40 believe comes from ten cents a square foot, that is
21:36:46 part of the DRI, a unique situation, I think comes
21:36:50 from the DRI of Westshore, and there may be other
21:36:54 I forget, it might be another ten cents somewhere.
21:36:58 I forget what it is.
21:36:59 But I know for sure it's ten cents a square foot that
21:37:02 was put in years ago.
21:37:03 And that's worked very well for the neighborhood and
21:37:05 for the city to help defer costs that are necessary
21:37:10 when development happens.
21:37:11 And I want to thank all of you for participating.
21:37:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This looks absolutely stunning.
21:37:20 And given the uninspired building that it's replacing,
21:37:25 this is really exciting.
21:37:26 It's going to be the first thing that's visible when
21:37:28 you're heading eastward into Tampa, and it looks like
21:37:32 it's going to be a very beautiful development.
21:37:35 >>CHAIRMAN: Ms. Coyle, you wanted to say something?
21:37:39 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
21:37:40 If you are willing to approve, or this is an
21:37:43 approvable plan, I have labeled the exhibits exhibit
21:37:47 C, which happens to be the staff's notes, the plan,
21:37:51 exhibit D is a graphic of the design, exhibit E, the
21:37:55 note from the neighborhood association, and exhibit F,
21:38:00 pages 1 through 10 of the booklet of the elevations
21:38:03 and urban court yard.
21:38:05 If approval by council in your motion you reference
21:38:09 exhibit C through F to be added to the --
21:38:14 >>GWEN MILLER: You wanted to speak?
21:38:19 >>> Thank you.
21:38:20 I didn't come here and wait all nature to not be able
21:38:22 to speak so thank you.
21:38:23 It's nice to see you again, Mr. Miranda.
21:38:29 >> Got to earn your heavy salary that the neighborhood
21:38:33 doesn't pay you.
21:38:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Put your name on the record.
21:38:36 >>> My name is Emmy Purcell Reynolds, 206 south Trask
21:38:42 street, the president of the Beach Park homeowners
21:38:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Have you been sworn in?
21:38:46 >>> Yes, I have been sworn in.
21:38:47 We appreciate the fact that they met with us, and we
21:38:50 were able to look at the site plan, we expressed our
21:38:55 We wanted to make sure that things they said they were
21:38:58 going to do they actually did put on the site plan.
21:39:02 After talking to the developer, they agreed to do
21:39:06 And I was going to read these five items into the
21:39:12 public record so there's no question about it so I was
21:39:15 hoping somebody could at least touch on those to have
21:39:17 these five things read into the public record.
21:39:21 And they are very happy with what they agreed that
21:39:25 they would do.
21:39:30 So thank you very much.
21:39:31 >>GWEN MILLER: The same five that Ms. Vizzi read?
21:39:35 >>> I can briefly -- one is very important to us.
21:39:39 They agreed that they would have an exception, there
21:39:42 would be no residential on the PD on the site.
21:39:47 Also, the private SURC ultimate or would be provided
21:39:50 during certain hours ever operation, 17 1:30 to 2,
21:39:54 Monday through Friday.
21:39:55 They believe that's extremely important to help reduce
21:39:57 the congestion.
21:40:02 That they are going to provide some kind of a coffee
21:40:04 shop, to keep the residents on-site.
21:40:10 Reclaimed water, if it's available they will use
21:40:12 And also they will include language in their contract
21:40:16 with their general contractor language that they will
21:40:20 make sure that the contractor's trucks do not use
21:40:23 Westshore Boulevard or Lois south of Kennedy, because
21:40:27 it's a residential street, and trucks are not allowed
21:40:29 on those streets.
21:40:30 So we want to make sure that law or ordinance is
21:40:33 adhered to.
21:40:34 And those are the only things that we asked for.
21:40:36 And spent a long time with them and I think they put
21:40:40 together a quality project.
21:40:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Emmy, would you show that page to
21:40:46 her and make sure it's the same page and which exhibit
21:40:48 it is?
21:40:50 >>MARTIN SHELBY: council, I believe that's exhibit E.
21:40:53 Ms. Coyle, is that correct?
21:40:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Then we are all good.
21:40:57 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Yes,.
21:41:02 Cathy Coyle.
21:41:03 >> Move to close.
21:41:04 >> Second.
21:41:04 (Motion carried).
21:41:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I move the following ordinance for
21:41:11 first reading, and I move the ordinance first and then
21:41:15 I'll put in the conditions.
21:41:16 An ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity
21:41:19 of 402 north Reo street and 5598, 5510 and 5512 West
21:41:24 Gray Street in the city of Tampa, Florida more
21:41:27 particularly described in section is from zoning
21:41:29 district classifications map 3 and map 4 airport
21:41:35 municipal, to PD, planned development, business,
21:41:38 professional office retail, providing an effective
21:41:40 And I would ask or direct staff to include the
21:41:43 conditions that are identified on exhibits C, D, E and
21:41:47 F, including any additional documentation that's
21:41:51 included in C, D, and F.
21:41:55 >>> Donna Wysong, legal department.
21:41:59 I just feel it's my duty to just state for the record
21:42:03 that some of these statements, some of these notes
21:42:06 that are going to be added to the site plan, they are
21:42:10 not enforceable by the city, that they are fine if you
21:42:13 want to add them, but it's a good thing that the
21:42:16 developer and the neighborhood association have
21:42:19 managed to work things out.
21:42:21 But they are not -- they don't really pertain to our
21:42:24 zoning code and they are not really enforceable by the
21:42:27 For instance, the circulator shuttle, we can't enforce
21:42:31 If you want to put it on the site plan that's fine.
21:42:33 But I just don't want the citizens to go away thinking
21:42:36 that the city can enforce a circulator shuttle.
21:42:39 I felt I needed to say that for the record.
21:42:42 Thank you.
21:42:42 >>MARY MULHERN: I was wondering about that and the
21:42:46 reclaimed water, too.
21:42:47 Because if we don't have that set up for this
21:42:51 process --
21:42:53 >>> I just didn't want anybody to leave here thinking
21:42:55 that, you know --
21:42:57 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm glad you clarified that.
21:42:59 I would also like to bring this up.
21:43:01 The idea that we don't even talk about the
21:43:05 transportation impact here other than having a
21:43:07 neighborhood association mentioned that they would
21:43:11 like to have a circulator at lunch time, I think we
21:43:15 really need to think about our planning, and our
21:43:19 comprehensive plan when we are approving a bunch of
21:43:24 developments, 3,000 parking spaces.
21:43:27 I think that's going to add a little bit of traffic to
21:43:29 the area.
21:43:30 And I don't think it's either, you know, the
21:43:36 petitioner or the neighborhood's responsibility to
21:43:39 deal with it.
21:43:41 >>GWEN MILLER: The public hearing has been closed and
21:43:43 we have read the ordinance.
21:43:44 We can't ask questions now.
21:43:46 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm not asking questions.
21:43:48 I'm just speaking.
21:43:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Excuse me.
21:43:51 >>MARY MULHERN: No, I'm not asking a question.
21:43:54 I'm talking to council and to staff about the fact
21:43:57 that we don't have any kind of transportation
21:44:02 concurrency, and we are approving huge projects, and
21:44:07 we don't have the capacity for it so we need to start
21:44:10 thinking about that and figuring out if we are going
21:44:12 to approve these things, how we are going to provide
21:44:16 for the kind of transportation infrastructure that we
21:44:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I just want to advise council and
21:44:30 inquire of council member Mulhern.
21:44:32 What you are doing is speaking in generality.
21:44:34 It's not with regard to the specific petition.
21:44:36 And the reason -- unless that's the case.
21:44:39 And the reason I suggest that is because the public
21:44:43 hearing has been closed and the petitioner had not
21:44:46 been able to make their case in chief.
21:44:49 Therefore, what I ask is whatever vote you do make in
21:44:52 determination of council needs to be based on
21:44:54 competent, substantial evidence.
21:44:55 If you feel the need to reopen the meeting to get
21:44:58 that, that's council's pleasure.
21:44:59 If not you have the second opportunity at second
21:45:01 reading to be able to do that.
21:45:05 >>> Council, can you briefly reopen so we can address?
21:45:08 >>GWEN MILLER: We have read the ordinance.
21:45:11 We are ready to vote on the ordinance.
21:45:12 She shouldn't have been talking.
21:45:13 Weaver a motion and second.
21:45:16 We have read the ordinance.
21:45:18 Mr. Dingfelder, we are ready to vote on this.
21:45:21 We can't go back.
21:45:23 >>MARY MULHERN: I thought I could -- can I ask a
21:45:29 question on the motion?
21:45:31 Okay, then question on the motion.
21:45:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
21:45:33 Any more questions on the motion?
21:45:34 I call for the vote.
21:45:35 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
21:45:37 Opposed, Nay.
21:45:45 THE CLERK: I need a second on that first reading.
21:45:48 Motion carried with Mulhern voting no.
21:45:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We spent two hours today talking
21:45:54 about our comprehensive plan, and I think Ms.
21:45:57 Mulhern's comments are completely germane to our whole
21:46:00 conversation about what kind of direction can we --
21:46:02 what kind of form and shape can we give the city.
21:46:05 And if we can't because we are currently under the
21:46:07 transportation concurrency, we can't discuss
21:46:11 transportation impact, we are hobbled in our --
21:46:15 >>GWEN MILLER: She could have discussed it before we
21:46:18 went to read the ordinance and all that.
21:46:19 The only thing I asked a question, not to discuss
21:46:24 anything about transportation.
21:46:25 She could have done that before we closed the public
21:46:27 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm waving my arm over here a lot.
21:46:35 >> Do you remember the problem I said this morning?
21:46:37 The problem is not them, it's us.
21:46:39 And I have no difference with Mulhern or Saul-Sena or
21:46:44 Dingfelder orca tan oh or Scott.
21:46:48 But if you are going to say something, say it when you
21:46:50 have to say it.
21:46:53 Let's get on.
21:46:54 Let's -- I mean, we are worse than the Tampa Bay Devil
21:47:04 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm sorry.
21:47:04 I know it's late.
21:47:06 >> No, I knots late.
21:47:11 Here till midnight.
21:47:13 >>GWEN MILLER: We closed the public hearing.
21:47:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You're right but I mean we are the
21:47:20 Me included.
21:47:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Other things coming before council?
21:47:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: This is the first evening the staff
21:47:32 presented a series of options for us and I thought it
21:47:34 went so smoothly, was so much clearer.
21:47:38 I really appreciate that.
21:47:40 It really helped us move through the organizing of the
21:47:42 agenda and through our -- it was a tremendous help.
21:47:45 Thank you.
21:47:47 >> Happy to help.
21:47:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Anything else to come before council?
21:47:50 Mr. Dingfelder.
21:47:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Melanie or Bryan, either one of
21:47:54 I think Ms. Mulhern brings up a good general point.
21:47:59 And this has to do with transportation concurrency
21:48:01 exception area.
21:48:03 More than a year ago, we went over to the convention
21:48:06 We had a long chitchat about the TCA and hiring
21:48:12 consultants and where are we going on that.
21:48:13 Can you give us a quick update on that?
21:48:15 Or else we can come back next Thursday and talk about
21:48:18 Bottom line is, we need to do something about
21:48:21 transportation concurrency exception area.
21:48:23 Otherwise, all of these projects as Mary said will
21:48:26 continue to come in without concurrency, without
21:48:29 transportation concurrency.
21:48:32 And this has nothing specifically to do with that last
21:48:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It's a general question.
21:48:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Let's ask Mr. Shelby.
21:48:39 >>MARTIN SHELBY: My suggestion, council, would be that
21:48:43 you do have a workshop today on the comprehensive
21:48:47 You're coming back in two weeks.
21:48:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But they are not doing that.
21:48:51 It's staff.
21:48:52 City staff is doing -- Bryan --
21:48:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Goers is responsible.
21:48:59 >> It's not a plan, bits dollars for concurrency.
21:49:04 >>> Bryan gentry, transportation.
21:49:06 Anything within a Westshore DRI made through the
21:49:11 impact of fees at the time of permitting, we can also
21:49:14 supplement and have them do other things.
21:49:19 I don't know if you can reference this plan.
21:49:22 I can't.
21:49:23 Well --
21:49:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: How about the DCA study and all of
21:49:27 Where is that with staff?
21:49:29 We haven't heard back from them.
21:49:30 >>> I have no idea.
21:49:33 >>> Melanie Calloway, transportation.
21:49:36 As far as the TCA, that study is like ongoing as far
21:49:40 as I know.
21:49:43 I think it's continuing ongoing and they are looking
21:49:46 at it.
21:49:47 I think at this point we do have a consultant on
21:49:49 I think they are still working through all of the
21:49:52 As far as the Westshore DRI, we do not mitigate impact
21:49:58 This is -- and they have mitigated their negative
21:50:03 We had intersection improvements they are going to do.
21:50:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I am going to stop because
21:50:08 you are talking about -- it's outside the course of
21:50:10 the public hearing related to this item.
21:50:12 It would be appropriate if council wishes to do that,
21:50:14 you can do that when it comes back for second reading.
21:50:16 I would also advise council if it wishes to raise that
21:50:19 issue which is a valid one that you do it at a regular
21:50:21 meeting and request --
21:50:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Do it at a regular meeting.
21:50:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I want to do it right now so it
21:50:26 comes up from two weeks from now.
21:50:30 >>> I can do it generally.
21:50:31 >> I would like a report from Mr. Daignault on TCA,
21:50:34 give us an update and time line on where we are with
21:50:38 the consultant and where we are going to address that
21:50:41 It's been a long time.
21:50:42 >>> We had a meeting at the convention center, and
21:50:44 they are supposed to be coming back to us -- snoop are
21:50:49 we meeting two weeks from now?
21:50:51 >> Yes.
21:50:54 >>> In a day meeting under staff reports.
21:50:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Mulhern.
21:50:57 >>MARY MULHERN: I was just going to tell Charlie I
21:51:00 have trouble getting recognized and maybe I should be
21:51:03 But I think that we need to have a button here so we
21:51:07 can be recognized.
21:51:08 And if we had that, I would be able to say things at
21:51:12 the right time.
21:51:12 >>GWEN MILLER: You get recognized.
21:51:17 You can just speak up.
21:51:18 >>MARY MULHERN: Which we don't need either.
21:51:22 We don't need that either.
21:51:23 But if we had a button like they have at county
21:51:26 commission, that we could push, like we can push when
21:51:30 we need a drink of water or a cup of coffee, then you
21:51:33 would know who is waiting to speak.
21:51:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: There's a motion on the floor.
21:51:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I second it.
21:51:43 >>MARY MULHERN: Muscle I don't know.
21:51:48 Vote on your motion.
21:51:49 (Motion carried).
21:51:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Need to receive and file.
21:51:53 Motion to receive and file.
21:51:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to receive and file.
21:51:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
21:51:58 (Motion carried).
21:51:59 >>GWEN MILLER: anything else to come before council?
21:52:02 We stand adjourned.
21:52:03 (Meeting adjourned.)