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Tampa City Council
Thursday, August 23, 2007
9:00 a.m. session

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09:04:38 [Sounding gavel]
09:04:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Tampa City Council is called to order.
09:04:40 The chair will yield to Reverend Scott.
09:04:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Madam Chairman.
09:04:47 It is my honor and pleasure to have with us today to
09:04:52 do our invocation.
09:04:55 He's the pastor of the church since 1994.
09:05:00 And he's the product of the first church of God.

09:05:04 He attended Colorado state university, Indiana, and he
09:05:12 graduate.
09:05:19 Pastor in Belfast, northern Ireland, and Wisconsin,
09:05:26 Columbia, Ohio, this is the pastor's 31st year in
09:05:37 ministry.
09:05:39 He has three sons and two daughters-in-law, and most
09:05:45 important he is my very, very dear friend, good friend
09:05:48 for about 20 years now, I guess, he and his wife Mary,
09:05:51 and I love them dearly.
09:05:53 I'm just delighted to have them here today.
09:05:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Please stand and remain standing for
09:05:59 the pledge of allegiance.
09:06:08 >>> Lord, we pause this morning as thankful people,
09:06:11 thankful for this community and for this city, and
09:06:17 thankful for all the blessings that are ours, in all
09:06:22 the things that we would fix and all the things that
09:06:25 we would complain, even whine about today.
09:06:28 We pause to be thankful for all that is ours.
09:06:35 We are mindful, Dear Lord, that you have called us to
09:06:38 be good stewards of these things, and what would take
09:06:42 place here today would be stewardship of the city.
09:06:47 And so we ask your blessing upon our leaders, council

09:06:54 leaders, our city and its employees, and all those who
09:06:57 serve this community, and ask your leadership.
09:07:02 Lord, we know that good stewardship comes not from
09:07:06 wisdom of our own alone, but from you as well.
09:07:12 And so, Lord, be present here today, lead and guide,
09:07:17 and grant us your wisdom.
09:07:22 Amen.
09:07:24 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
09:07:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Roll call.
09:07:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
09:07:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:07:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
09:07:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
09:07:45 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
09:07:47 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
09:07:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:07:49 At this time, Reverend Scott will do the commendation
09:07:52 for the Officer of the Month.
09:08:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Madam Chair and to members
09:08:13 of the City Council and to the audience today.
09:08:16 It's my pleasure to be able to present the
09:08:18 accommodation for the Officer of the Month, detective

09:08:24 Eddie Preston.
09:08:27 What I would like to do at this time is turn it over
09:08:30 to the chief, and then have all the other
09:08:37 presentations and then what I'll do is make the final
09:08:40 presentation that I have.
09:08:41 Chief?
09:08:45 >>> Chief: Thank you very much, council.
09:08:47 Once again it's a pleasure to be here and we at the
09:08:50 police department appreciate the fact that the City
09:08:53 Council recognizes an Officer of the Month every
09:08:56 month.
09:08:57 And I know it's very important to the officers, also.
09:09:01 And we have an out standing candidate for August 2007,
09:09:05 detective Eddie Preston.
09:09:10 I am going to get upstaged real quick here.
09:09:18 As all of our candidates who come here as Officer of
09:09:20 the Month, they do something special generally, and we
09:09:26 recognize them.
09:09:28 But the reason they get to where they are at is really
09:09:30 past performance, year in, year out, of this same kind
09:09:35 of activity.
09:09:36 And this is very true of Eddie.

09:09:39 But the incidents that occurred that we are
09:09:43 recognizing him here for today is the out standing
09:09:48 investigative skills and techniques he used to solve
09:09:50 two major thefts in the City of Tampa.
09:09:54 One of them was a music store.
09:09:58 And they were losing high-end guitars and nobody could
09:10:02 figure out how this was happening.
09:10:06 And usually it's kind of an employee theft or
09:10:09 something of that nature, and it's very difficult to
09:10:12 solve these things, because they are usually inside
09:10:16 jobs.
09:10:16 But there were 16 one-of-a-kind guitars stolen at
09:10:25 $32,000 in value.
09:10:27 And it was very cleverly done.
09:10:29 They were putting the guitars in other boxes that were
09:10:31 going outs the door, the thieves were, and then
09:10:34 collecting them once they went out the door.
09:10:38 Very difficult.
09:10:39 I mean, no leads, no information.
09:10:42 And Eddie just got on the computer and started looking
09:10:45 around for guitars for sale.
09:10:47 And these were fairly unique, obviously they are high

09:10:50 end.
09:10:50 And, sure enough, he found one for sale in Tampa.
09:10:55 So he converted from what is normally a plain clothes
09:11:01 detective which most people can recognize as a
09:11:03 detective if they come to your front door to kind of
09:11:07 an undercover officer and started doing an undercover
09:11:10 operation to actually purchase this guitar.
09:11:14 And that fell through, only because somebody else
09:11:17 offered more than he did.
09:11:19 [ Laughter ]
09:11:23 >> You can offer as much as you want but we are not
09:11:26 giving him any anyway.
09:11:29 >> That's as a result of budget cuts.
09:11:32 [ Laughter ]
09:11:34 >>> So instead he was not to be deterred.
09:11:37 So he staked out this house.
09:11:41 If you know much about police work you know stakeouts
09:11:44 are long, low bore use and very seldom could Do they
09:11:48 produce results but he was tenacious, he stayed with
09:11:50 it, and he stopped the suspect.
09:11:53 He eventually, through his investigative skills,
09:11:57 uncovered -- recovered all of the guitars and made the

09:12:00 owner of the business extremely happy, and in fact the
09:12:04 owner said that they had worked with law enforcement
09:12:09 for years and years and years, they had never worked
09:12:12 with anybody as out standing as Eddie Preston.
09:12:15 And we all know that at the police department, and
09:12:18 it's nice that it's recognized elsewhere, too.
09:12:22 The other case was a jewelry case, and that case was a
09:12:30 stolen property.
09:12:30 It was a major value of jewelry.
09:12:36 And, once again, he went ahead and did the same kind
09:12:40 of tenacious investigation that resulted in the
09:12:44 recovery of the jewelry from that theft.
09:12:48 And what this amounted to was over $38,000 worth of
09:12:55 merchandise that was returned to the rightful owners
09:13:00 and numerous suspects put in jail.
09:13:02 And like I said, these were just two of the things
09:13:05 that we are recognizing him for this month, but this
09:13:08 is the kind of work that Eddie Preston does every day
09:13:12 for the police department and for the citizens of
09:13:13 Tampa, so it's my great privilege to introduce to the
09:13:17 council and to the public today Eddie Preston as our
09:13:21 Officer of the Month for August 2007.

09:13:23 [ Applause ]
09:13:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Just before he comes and makes the
09:13:34 presentation, we invite other gifts and presentations
09:13:40 here.
09:13:41 We would like to present to detective Eddie Preston
09:13:46 for out standing service, detective Preston has been
09:13:50 selected as Officer of the Month for August 2007.
09:13:52 Detective Preston's initiative and professionalism
09:13:55 played a key role in the successful conclusion of two
09:13:58 robbery cases, over $30,000 worth of merchandise,
09:14:03 three suspects are behind bars due to his commitment
09:14:05 and sharp investigative skills.
09:14:08 He is a vital member in preserving the partnership
09:14:11 between the police department, local businesses in
09:14:13 district one.
09:14:16 For keeping our city safer, City Council and City of
09:14:18 Tampa commends detective Eddie Preston.
09:14:21 On behalf of the City Council, we would like to
09:14:24 present you with this plaque, along with that, and I
09:14:31 already put this in my pocket, $100 gift certificate.
09:14:43 Congratulations.
09:14:47 [ Applause ]

09:14:48 And again, City Council, again, these men and women
09:14:55 who make our community safe and protect us is so
09:14:58 vital, so important.
09:14:59 As you know, on Tuesday, we buried one of your
09:15:03 colleagues in law enforcement.
09:15:05 So again we recognize and highlight these persons that
09:15:11 have given their lives to protect us so thank you very
09:15:15 much for what you do.
09:15:22 >>> Steve Stickley representing Stepps towing, on
09:15:26 behalf of Jim and Judy Stepp and Stepp's towing we
09:15:30 appreciate everything you do and all the hard work you
09:15:32 put into it.
09:15:33 We would like to present this statue to you on behalf
09:15:36 of Stepp's towing and a gift certificate to Lee Roy
09:15:42 Selmon's.
09:15:44 Thank you very much.
09:15:45 [ Applause ]
09:15:50 >>> Representing Tampa's Lowry Park Zoo.
09:15:53 We would like to thank you for your service to the
09:15:55 community.
09:15:55 We invite you and your family to come out.
09:16:01 Thank you very much.

09:16:02 [ Applause ]
09:16:04 >>> Martin, representing Bill Currie Ford.
09:16:08 On behalf of Bill Currie Ford, all the employees, we
09:16:12 would like to present with you this watch.
09:16:15 Thank you.
09:16:16 [ Applause ]
09:16:24 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I'm here on behalf of a couple
09:16:27 different folks who would like to recognize you.
09:16:29 And I think it pays us for the community to think
09:16:38 about the fact that officers O or than duty, 24 hours
09:16:42 a day, 356 days a year, everyone though they are off
09:16:45 duty they are on duty.
09:16:46 One of the things we respect about you and appreciate
09:16:48 you for your commitment to this community.
09:16:50 On behalf of Liss properties and David Laxer at Bern's
09:16:59 steakhouse, a $100 gift certificate.
09:17:02 Bryn Allen studios is going to provide with you a
09:17:04 portrait package so you can have your pictures taken
09:17:07 for you and your family. The Hillsborough County
09:17:09 towing association is providing you with a $50 gift
09:17:12 certificate for your choice to Outback or Carrabas.
09:17:15 The only thing I don't have is free guitar lessons.

09:17:19 [ Laughter ]
09:17:19 So you will have to get that somehow.
09:17:22 Anyway, congratulations and thank you.
09:17:28 [ Applause ]
09:17:40 >>> I would just like to say thank you, on behalf of
09:17:43 myself and my family.
09:17:44 It seems kind of strange getting an award for doing a
09:17:47 job you really enjoy, you love to do, but this is
09:17:50 really nice.
09:17:51 It means a lot to the officers but it means just as
09:17:53 much if not more to the family.
09:17:57 My family loves coming to the events, the chief of
09:17:59 staff, they are so gracious, they always say, bring
09:18:02 your wife, bring your kids.
09:18:04 Chief George says, where are the rest of your kids?
09:18:07 I have four of them.
09:18:09 Where are they?
09:18:10 They are very accommodating and I truly appreciate
09:18:12 that.
09:18:13 And I just want to say to you, the chief made a
09:18:16 comment about the person from the business, what he
09:18:20 said about the level of service that he received.

09:18:23 And that's because of you all, the resources, what you
09:18:27 provide us.
09:18:28 I worked in personnel for two or three years before I
09:18:31 became a detective and I can tell you that everybody
09:18:33 wants to come here, everybody wants to come work for
09:18:35 the City of Tampa.
09:18:36 I can tell you that.
09:18:38 I get phone calls from Hawaii, the northeast, midwest,
09:18:42 far west, you name it.
09:18:44 I take phone calls, everybody wants to come here.
09:18:47 We have a great department and a great city.
09:18:49 And thanks to you all.
09:18:52 Thank you.
09:18:53 [ Applause ]
09:18:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Madam Chair.
09:19:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Chief, if you would, go ahead.
09:19:16 >>> We have kind of a special presentation that we
09:19:19 wanted to do in front of council today, and that is
09:19:23 recognize another police officer for once again an
09:19:27 individual incident.
09:19:30 Officer Burrell?
09:19:37 On May 11th, at approximately 6:13 in the morning,

09:19:59 we just about had an absolute tragedy occur here in
09:20:02 the City of Tampa.
09:20:02 We just about lost another police officer.
09:20:05 Officer mayo is standing here and officer Burrell and
09:20:11 a bail bondsman entered a house at that time in the
09:20:16 morning to arrest a dangerous known felon that we had
09:20:22 warrants for.
09:20:22 And they went in.
09:20:24 The suspects, unbeknownst to them, had armed himself,
09:20:28 and had secreted himself away in an adjoining bedroom
09:20:35 down the hallway, and as the officers entered the
09:20:38 house looking for him, he opened fire on officer
09:20:42 Amarro who was in the lead.
09:20:46 Officer Armarro was shot in the face as you can see
09:20:51 and the bullet struck him in the arm and his shoulder.
09:20:57 If not bad enough, the weapon he used was a .44 mag
09:21:01 yum revolver, which if you don't know anything about
09:21:04 guns is probably one of the most powerful handguns
09:21:06 made, and considerably more fire power than we as
09:21:10 police officers carry.
09:21:12 Officer Armarro was shot.
09:21:17 I remember him telling me in the hospital as he lay in

09:21:20 his hospital bed that it was the strangest thing,
09:21:23 because he was holding his gun in his right arm, but
09:21:26 by the nature of the wound he couldn't lift his arm
09:21:29 because his muscles had been destroyed that would have
09:21:32 lifted his arm, but his hand could still grip his
09:21:36 pistol.
09:21:36 And he kept looking down at his pistol and realized he
09:21:40 could not defend himself standing out in the open.
09:21:43 We as police officers are trained that when you are
09:21:46 faced with fire power that you immediately take cover.
09:21:50 And all the officers realized that they needed to exit
09:21:52 that house and set up a perimeter and wait for the
09:21:56 swat team or what we call the tactical response team
09:21:59 to in fact respond.
09:22:02 But this suspect wasn't done.
09:22:06 He started down the hallway after officer Amarro, a
09:22:14 bail bondsman was actually in the house, and he
09:22:16 started down the hallway after the officers, and
09:22:20 officer Burrell.
09:22:22 Officer Burrell returned fire and shot the suspect in
09:22:27 the abdomen area.
09:22:31 This slowed the suspect down.

09:22:33 Now, he allowed everybody else to stand, and he
09:22:35 stood -- officer Amarro couldn't defend himself. The
09:22:42 bail bondsman needed to exit also.
09:22:44 And officer Burrell needed to exit the house because
09:22:46 that's our procedure.
09:22:47 But he stood and waited till everybody else got out
09:22:51 and stood against this individual who had essentially
09:22:54 a cannon that he was shooting at the police officers.
09:22:57 He wounded the suspect.
09:23:00 And then of course exited the house, too.
09:23:04 We believe that the police department, that his
09:23:07 actions slowed that suspect down enough that those two
09:23:11 officers and that bail bondsman could get out and set
09:23:14 up a perimeter.
09:23:18 Because the suspect even shot, chased them to the door
09:23:22 and fired another round at officer Burrell as he was
09:23:26 fleeing from the scene, and fortunately missed him.
09:23:29 So this is an individual that was -- had more fire
09:23:32 power than we had, was bent on shooting and killing a
09:23:37 police officer that day, just by the grace of God it
09:23:40 didn't happen because officer Armarro received serious
09:23:46 injuries that he's still recovering from, but officer

09:23:49 Burrell stood in the line of fire, allowed others to
09:23:52 escape before he escaped, and today we are very
09:23:55 honored to issue him our award of VALOR, which is a
09:23:59 very rare award that's received at the police
09:24:02 department.
09:24:02 In fact the last one given out was given away four
09:24:05 years ago.
09:24:06 So it's with great pleasure today in front of council
09:24:08 that I give officer Burrell his award of valor.
09:24:13 Thank you very much.
09:24:15 [ Applause ]
09:24:45 >>> Thank you, chief.
09:24:46 Thank you, staff.
09:24:47 I also thank you, City Council, for allowing us to
09:24:50 come before you.
09:24:52 I would also like to thank God for his protection
09:24:56 during the job that we have.
09:25:01 I would also like to accept this award on behalf of
09:25:03 officer Amarro whose training helped him to survive
09:25:10 this incident.
09:25:11 I would also like to thank the department's training
09:25:14 for helping me in reacting to such -- in such a quick

09:25:19 manner.
09:25:20 I accept this award on behalf of all the men and women
09:25:26 who every day put their lives on the line for our
09:25:33 community, as well as the men and women who gave the
09:25:38 ultimate sacrifice of their lives in protecting the
09:25:41 community.
09:25:43 I would like to acknowledge the past officers, the
09:25:48 present, and the future.
09:25:51 And I also want to thank God for his protection while
09:25:57 we perform our duties to serve and protect our
09:25:59 community.
09:26:00 Thank you.
09:26:01 [ Applause ]
09:26:02 I have a couple of family members.
09:26:17 My father, John Burrell.
09:26:19 [ Applause ]
09:26:19 And my cousin, John Moore.
09:26:27 [ Applause ]
09:26:35 >>> Chief it: Thank you, council.
09:26:38 I appreciate your time.
09:26:41 >>GWEN MILLER: We had a sheriff and I who was killed
09:26:46 last week and I would like to say to sergeant Ron

09:26:50 Harrison's family that we love you and we send our
09:26:52 sympathy out to you and we give you all the hope and
09:26:55 courage that you need in the future.
09:27:03 Henry bolden also passed away, one of the first airmen
09:27:06 of Tuskegee, who was a pilot.
09:27:12 We would like to send our sympathy to his family so
09:27:15 they can do what they need to do to help them continue
09:27:18 in life.
09:27:18 Now we go to Mr. Dingfelder to do a commendation.
09:27:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Good morning, council.
09:27:42 What a great honor it is for me today to honor our
09:27:45 good friend Cathy Bartolotti who is retiring after 42
09:27:51 years.
09:27:54 And surrounding us here in the background is Greg
09:28:02 spearman, Cathy's family members as well.
09:28:11 And she's going to introduce them in a second.
09:28:13 Before we get to Cathy, I did want to honor Greg.
09:28:18 Come here, Greg.
09:28:19 I want to honor Greg and your entire team.
09:28:22 It's my understanding that you guys in the purchasing
09:28:24 department and the City of Tampa just received a
09:28:26 national award for achievement of excellence in

09:28:30 procurement.
09:28:31 And that's a very prestigious award, as a former
09:28:35 government purchasing agent I know how hard that is to
09:28:38 get, and, Greg, congratulations.
09:28:41 [ Applause ]
09:28:44 Greg, do you have a few words you want to say?
09:28:49 >>> Thank you, councilman Dingfelder.
09:28:52 Greg Spearman, director of purchasing.
09:28:53 This is really a sad day for us.
09:28:56 Cathy is a person who is so full of life and energy.
09:29:02 And we tease her a lot of times.
09:29:04 We say, well, we have to listen close because she
09:29:06 talks really fast.
09:29:08 She also moves fast.
09:29:10 She's in excellent health and she's well respected by
09:29:15 her peers in her community on the staff, all the
09:29:18 people out in the field as well.
09:29:20 So we are going to miss her, because Cathy is a candid
09:29:24 person.
09:29:24 One of the things I want to share with you about her
09:29:26 is we did have a national conference in Tampa this
09:29:29 past year.

09:29:30 You heard councilman Dingfelder talk about the
09:29:33 excellence in achievement award.
09:29:36 The NITP government, national government purchasing
09:29:41 continue, we had about 2,000 delegates from the United
09:29:46 States and Canada that came here, and guess who was in
09:29:49 charge of transportation to get all those people
09:29:53 around.
09:29:54 Cathy Bartolotti.
09:29:56 And people raved about how the transportation staff is
09:30:02 really nice.
09:30:03 Because when Cathy is in charge, she's in control.
09:30:06 We had no issues, no complaints with regard to
09:30:08 transportation by delegates in and throughout the
09:30:11 city.
09:30:11 So with that, we just want to say Cathy, we love you,
09:30:15 we are going to miss you very much.
09:30:16 And she is an icon, she and the department.
09:30:21 Thank you, Cathy.
09:30:22 [ Applause ]
09:30:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I know we all have our own Cathy
09:30:31 stories.
09:30:31 Charlie, you probably have a few.

09:30:33 [ Laughter ]
09:30:39 Cathy is miss West Tampa.
09:30:41 But she's really miss everything.
09:30:44 She's a dedicated public servant, she's hard working,
09:30:47 she's honest, she's loyal, she has a wonderful heart,
09:30:50 and we all know that.
09:30:51 And I see a lot of tears back here to indicate that.
09:30:54 And she's intelligent.
09:30:57 In addition to her years of service to the city, she
09:31:00 is so out there in the community, involved in
09:31:04 everything, not only in West Tampa but across the
09:31:07 city, on Hispanic causes as well as general causes.
09:31:12 She's volunteered to make the city a better place.
09:31:15 She does things selflessly, she does it quietly, and
09:31:19 she does it consistently.
09:31:21 She believes in our system, our system of government.
09:31:25 I have a feeling civics might have been her favorite
09:31:28 class when she was growing up.
09:31:30 Because when I first met Cathy she was under this big
09:31:33 sign that said go-TV.
09:31:40 And I learned quickly learned it was get out the vote.
09:31:44 And she doesn't just mean the ads in the paper or

09:31:47 something like that.
09:31:48 She means walking door to door and getting people out
09:31:50 to vote, you know, driving people to the polls, going
09:31:54 up and down the streets with a loudspeaker and
09:31:57 reminding people that tomorrow is the day to vote.
09:31:59 She believes in our system, and she'll continue to do
09:32:02 that forever.
09:32:03 She's the type of city employee that makes us all
09:32:05 proud, and I'm proud to call her my friend and I wish
09:32:08 you all happiness of everyone. [ Applause ]
09:32:20 And officially in recognition of your 42 years of
09:32:23 service to City of Tampa, city council commends Cathy
09:32:28 Bartolotti, she held leadership positions.
09:32:31 She served on Tampa chapter of the NIGP, has recently
09:32:36 been elected to the position of secretary of the Tampa
09:32:38 Bay Federal credit union, serves on the mayor's
09:32:40 Hispanic heritage committee as well as Tampa,
09:32:42 Hillsborough County property board, recently elected
09:32:44 to Ybor Lion's Club, the Southeastern guide dog
09:32:49 program, active team captain of "Paint Your Heart
09:32:51 Out."
09:32:53 I'm sure there's a hundred other organizations that

09:32:55 she's been involved in.
09:32:56 For these and many more contributions, Cathy has made
09:32:59 our community, City Council, this commendation to you
09:33:02 for your long and meritorious service.
09:33:04 We wish you the best in health and service for your
09:33:07 retirement for having served our city so well.
09:33:12 [ Applause ]
09:33:14 >>> Cathy Bartolotti: I'm at a loss for words.
09:33:22 If you know me you probably don't think that.
09:33:24 [ Laughter ]
09:33:24 It's been my great honor and pleasure to work for the
09:33:27 City of Tampa for all these years.
09:33:30 I was born and raised here.
09:33:32 Like Charlie, my heart is here and it's always going
09:33:35 to stay here.
09:33:36 Thank you very much.
09:33:40 [ Applause ]
09:33:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If I was to really tell the truth
09:33:52 we would all be indicted.
09:33:54 [ Laughter ]
09:33:55 But -- and I mean that in the humorous way.
09:34:01 But let me just say, I've known Cathy when I had

09:34:05 curls.
09:34:06 There was a lot of schools that were a little
09:34:13 different than they are now.
09:34:14 When we were growing up, it was about family values,
09:34:18 and helping people in the neighborhood.
09:34:20 That's changed.
09:34:23 Not for all of us but for some of us.
09:34:25 But let me get to the more delightful part of life.
09:34:30 Cathy likes the same thing I like.
09:34:32 No, not that.
09:34:36 [ Laughter ]
09:34:36 She loves the sport of horse racing.
09:34:40 And she once asked me, Charlie, you have been doing
09:34:43 this for a long time, can you give me a tip?
09:34:45 And I did.
09:34:46 She said, what is it?
09:34:48 I said, don't gamble.
09:34:51 >>> And I remember that, Charlie.
09:34:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And she remembered that.
09:34:54 She's been to more racetracks than I have.
09:34:57 I know she visited Saratoga a few years back and I
09:35:01 told her how beautiful it was.

09:35:02 And that's when I first started my horse racing
09:35:06 career.
09:35:07 And she loves the sport because of the individuals.
09:35:11 And she tells me, how strong are these jockeys?
09:35:15 I said, well, it would be like a football player
09:35:18 weighing 280 pounds hitting something that what he's
09:35:22 2,000.
09:35:23 If you equate 11 or 1200-pound versus a rider that
09:35:27 weighs R what he's 115, male or female, you can see
09:35:30 the forces of nature are on the other side.
09:35:33 And she organizes all the things, the things with a
09:35:40 goal to have fun day at the racetrack, not to spend
09:35:43 your hard-earned money and gamble it away, but to have
09:35:46 fun and take that 15, $20 for an afternoon of
09:35:50 enjoyment.
09:35:51 And she's done that for various years for the city and
09:35:53 for the Hispanic groups that get together.
09:35:56 And I commend her for her 43 years of service.
09:36:01 >>> Thank you.
09:36:02 I want to thank my actual family.
09:36:05 And then my purchasing family.
09:36:08 Because I have been with them more than I have been

09:36:09 with my family.
09:36:11 Miss sister.
09:36:12 My brother-in-law Manuel Fernandez.
09:36:15 My brother Frank.
09:36:16 My nephew.
09:36:18 And my purchasing family.
09:36:20 What can I say?
09:36:21 Thank you.
09:36:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I want to ask a special favor.
09:36:26 I'm going to ask Cathy to come up here with us and let
09:36:30 Cathy be shot with all seven of us since we have a
09:36:33 massive quorum here today.
09:36:35 Thank you.
09:36:41 >> While you are coming up, Cathy, I want to say what
09:36:43 you have always represented to me is this positive
09:36:45 energy that's part of the city.
09:36:48 We will miss you so.
09:37:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you for coming everybody.
09:37:16 Congratulations.
09:37:24 >>GWEN MILLER: At this time we go to approval of the
09:37:26 agenda.
09:37:26 Are there any items we need to pull from the agenda?

09:37:34 Mr. Shelby?
09:37:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, just for housekeeping
09:37:38 purposes, I would like to ask that item 6 be removed
09:37:45 to the end of the agenda to accompany item 20.
09:37:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
09:37:51 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Also with regard --
09:37:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Wait, Mr. Shelby.
09:38:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My goodness, we have an empty
09:38:20 chamber.
09:38:20 >>CHAIRMAN: Try again.
09:38:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I am requesting that item 6 be
09:38:25 combined with item 20 and presented at the end of the
09:38:28 meeting, with item 20.
09:38:30 Also, council, as now, with regard to item 44, the
09:38:34 Centro Ybor issue, that's going to be taken up by the
09:38:36 CRA this afternoon.
09:38:37 So I would like that item held for council action
09:38:40 after the CRA takes action.
09:38:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Any other items?
09:38:47 Can we have a motion to approve?
09:38:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
09:38:51 >> Second.

09:38:51 (Motion carried).
09:38:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Go to item number 3.
09:38:57 Anybody here?
09:39:00 I'm sorry, we go to our staff reports first.
09:39:03 Mr. David Smith.
09:39:07 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
09:39:09 Actually, Mr. Shelby covered the item that I was going
09:39:13 to speak with you about, the movement of item number
09:39:15 44, basically tabling during council taking up CRA and
09:39:21 coming back to it as council after CRA deals it with.
09:39:24 I think you will have along enough meeting where you
09:39:26 won't have to keep your meeting artificially open
09:39:29 because we do need it reviewed and approved by both
09:39:34 CRA and council.
09:39:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Smith, since you're here, I
09:39:38 understand that our shade meeting was canceled for
09:39:41 today?
09:39:42 >>DAVID SMITH: Yes, ma'am.
09:39:44 >> Why?
09:39:46 >>DAVID SMITH: Essentially the situation has been
09:39:47 resolved, and today we have Mr. Fletcher and Jan
09:39:51 McLean to brief you on that.

09:39:54 We'll have a public briefing rather than a closed
09:39:56 Board meeting.
09:39:57 >> Thank you.
09:39:57 I just wanted some official communication.
09:40:00 >>GWEN MILLER: It's coming up now, Mrs. Saul-Sena.
09:40:04 Bonnie Wise wants to go first.
09:40:08 >>BONNIE WISE: Director of revenue and finance.
09:40:10 Two weeks ago I presented the fiscal year 2008 budget
09:40:14 to you.
09:40:15 At that time we presented the T capital improvement
09:40:17 budget and the supplemental budget for your records.
09:40:20 And today we actually have the annual budget book.
09:40:24 I just wanted you to have those, and to receive and
09:40:26 file those documents.
09:40:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Can we have a motion?
09:40:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
09:40:32 >> Second.
09:40:32 (Motion carried).
09:40:33 >>BONNIE WISE: Thank you.
09:40:35 >>GWEN MILLER: You're welcome.
09:40:37 Okay.
09:40:42 Jan McLean: Would you like to do the status update

09:40:44 first before the item number 3?
09:40:46 Is that what I'm understanding?
09:40:48 There's item number 3, it's the video, and I had
09:40:53 signed up to do the status update.
09:40:56 Whatever you prefer.
09:40:58 I'll start with the status update of the MFLs.
09:41:02 Just for -- to give you a little background, the Tampa
09:41:07 Bay water authority had submitted a modification to
09:41:13 withdraw water photographer the river and they
09:41:15 submitted that in 2006.
09:41:16 In May the southwest west Florida water management
09:41:20 district proposed an agency action for the permit that
09:41:22 subsequently revised that permit.
09:41:24 In that revision the revised permit had several
09:41:27 conditions which caused it to be objectionable both to
09:41:30 the Tampa Bay water authority and to the city.
09:41:33 Therefore, despite commitments by both agencies to
09:41:36 negotiate a resolution, administrative positions were
09:41:40 filed in order to preserve the right.
09:41:42 We filed the petition to preserve the right of the
09:41:45 city as well as Tampa Bay water.
09:41:49 Filed with the division of administrative hearings in

09:41:51 Tallahassee.
09:41:51 Negotiations to try to resolve those issues then
09:41:56 ensued.
09:41:57 I want to give you a little background on that.
09:42:00 The permit obligated Tampa Bay water to implement a
09:42:03 portion of the recovery strategy, and that obligation,
09:42:06 the way it was structured, could have impacted the
09:42:08 city's ability to withdraw water to the full amount
09:42:13 that was permitted to do, and that caused us, was one
09:42:18 of the bases that we filed the petition.
09:42:20 Negotiations then ensued among the parties, and the
09:42:23 district and Tampa Bay water resolved the issues on
09:42:25 the permit.
09:42:26 Therefore, all parties have requested that the
09:42:28 division of administrative hearings relinquish their
09:42:31 jurisdiction which allowed the permit to go to the
09:42:37 Southwest Florida Water Management District with
09:42:39 revisions.
09:42:39 Those revisions also settled any of the concerns that
09:42:41 the city had.
09:42:43 This permit, this revised permit then will be back in
09:42:46 front of the Southwest Florida Water Management

09:42:47 District at its governing board meeting next week so
09:42:51 that it can be issued.
09:42:55 With the resolution of the permit, the recovery
09:42:58 strategy for the lower Hillsborough River, MFL and the
09:43:06 recovery strategy can go forward as well as the permit
09:43:08 go forward along their now separated path the way they
09:43:12 should have been.
09:43:12 So the lower Hillsborough River minimum flow and level
09:43:20 recovery strategy is going to be also in front of the
09:43:23 southwest Florida water management board next week for
09:43:25 its approval.
09:43:26 And just to make sure that you understand, because I
09:43:28 know that we have been talking to you throughout the
09:43:31 course of these events, the recovery strategy is
09:43:34 something that the water management district has to
09:43:37 implement if when they adopt the minimum flow or
09:43:40 level, that minimum flow or level is below that which
09:43:43 is -- for instance, the Hillsborough River MFL is
09:43:50 going to be 20 cubic feet per second of water, and
09:43:54 right now it's only 10.
09:43:55 And so it's lower than what the proposal MFL is going
09:43:59 to be so recovery strategy is then developed to reach

09:44:02 the proposed MFL and that's what has been worked on in
09:44:07 addition to the MFL.
09:44:09 So just to let you know, though, part of the recovery
09:44:13 strategy encompasses a joint funding agreement.
09:44:16 This joint funding agreement identifies an amount of
09:44:20 money that the district and the city have committed to
09:44:23 implement the projects that will help meeting the MFL.
09:44:29 The joint funding agreement, once approved and
09:44:32 executed by the water management district, will come
09:44:34 back in front of council for your approval, not only
09:44:36 that agreement but individual project individual
09:44:40 funding agreements which we have committed with the
09:44:42 district will also be back in front of council.
09:44:45 So you will see the progression of how the MFL
09:44:49 projects will be implemented in order to assist, to
09:44:51 meet MFL.
09:44:55 Is there any question?
09:44:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yesterday, there was a press
09:44:59 conference held to announce this MFL strategy and it
09:45:02 was the most positive experience.
09:45:04 It's water being released from the dam. The river is
09:45:07 looking healthy.

09:45:07 This is a wonderful thing.
09:45:08 I'm very happy we're here.
09:45:10 I'm sorry the council wasn't able to participate in
09:45:13 discussions during the process but I'm very happy that
09:45:16 there's a positive resolution, cooperation among all
09:45:19 the agencies, and friends of the river are going to
09:45:22 see water going down the river and healthy fish.
09:45:25 Thank you so much for your work.
09:45:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Do number 3, too?
09:45:32 >>> My understanding is that there's a video.
09:45:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'd like everybody to watch the
09:45:39 video which doesn't have sound and I'll talk over it.
09:45:43 The information I received.
09:45:46 Then after that, Jan, if you are able to respond.
09:45:48 If the cable people could put the video on.
09:45:51 This looks like a stream.
09:45:53 Thank you.
09:45:54 Let it flow.
09:45:55 It's not supposed to be.
09:45:57 This is the construction site for the Cypress Creek
09:46:01 town center, which I had raised the issue of some time
09:46:05 ago that the City of Tampa was concerned, because if

09:46:10 this creek is polluted it affects up the Hillsborough
09:46:14 River which is our source of drinking water.
09:46:16 And Wan we see here is somebody taking a water sample
09:46:20 from here.
09:46:21 I passed out to you some information that I received
09:46:24 from the person who took the water sample.
09:46:28 A complaint was filed.
09:46:30 It took the official body several days to come out and
09:46:33 take a look.
09:46:34 But the bottom line is the permit for the Cypress
09:46:39 Creek town center construction says this would not
09:46:45 happen, but this is obviously happening.
09:46:47 This is proof positive that there weren't adequate
09:46:50 screens, there weren't proper protections, there isn't
09:46:54 supposed to be construction water going into the
09:46:56 Hillsborough River.
09:46:57 So I think this is a first.
09:46:59 I think this is the first time we have had a YouTube
09:47:03 video shown at City Council meeting but I think it's
09:47:06 great because a citizen can show what's going on that
09:47:08 shouldn't be, and I have given you reports from people
09:47:10 who have been involved and monitored.

09:47:14 And my question to our staff is because the quality of
09:47:17 the Hillsborough River, it's so important to us.
09:47:21 Just as the administration weighed in on the potential
09:47:25 location of a dump site next to a tributary to a
09:47:30 river, can't we weigh in on this?
09:47:33 And I think this is very upsetting.
09:47:35 I brought this up a year ago.
09:47:37 I said, couldn't we write a letter saying to the
09:47:40 permitting people in Pasco, please be careful, we are
09:47:43 concerned about the quality of the water, and I was
09:47:46 told that we don't have any jurisdiction over it.
09:47:48 But it seems like because it impacts our water supply
09:47:52 we should have some standing ability to caution them
09:47:56 about exactly what we feared happening has happened.
09:48:01 If you could talk while we watch the video.
09:48:04 >>> Okay.
09:48:04 I actually, after a bit of searching, was able to view
09:48:09 the video as well, and contacted Southwest Florida
09:48:12 Water Management District which has one of the primary
09:48:16 permits for construction.
09:48:18 The other is the Army corps permit which I have not
09:48:21 been able to contact them yet.

09:48:23 I received a lengthy both written report and verbal
09:48:27 report from the director of the Brooksville regulation
09:48:32 office enumerating the action that the complaints that
09:48:37 were given in enumerating the action that is were
09:48:41 taken subsequently.
09:48:41 The video that we are watching now -- and I also spoke
09:48:46 with the representative for the developer of the mall.
09:48:50 So the video that you are seeing now, we are not
09:48:53 entirely sure where the location is.
09:48:57 But just to give you kind of -- and I don't have the
09:49:01 things that you said you would pass out.
09:49:05 >> I'm so sorry.
09:49:06 >>> That's okay, because I can give you my report.
09:49:08 According to Mr. Bobby Lou, the director of the
09:49:11 regulation office for the Brooksville office for
09:49:14 Southwest Florida Water Management District, they
09:49:17 received a complaint that there was run-off from the
09:49:23 filtration barriers being broken down, which are
09:49:27 required during the course of construction in order to
09:49:29 keep just such filtration from going into the stream.
09:49:36 And I also understand that Hillsborough EPC did a site
09:49:44 visit as well.

09:49:45 I'm not entirely sure whether the Army corps went as
09:49:47 well.
09:49:48 According to Mr. Lou, the Southwest Florida water
09:49:52 management district did go out.
09:49:53 They do have field tech that is do compliance check
09:49:57 and upon this complaint went out to the location that
09:49:59 they thought the incident had occurred and found that
09:50:03 the filtration barriers had been compromised during
09:50:07 two subsequent rain events that occurred the week
09:50:10 before.
09:50:11 And --
09:50:12 >> For a week it had been going on.
09:50:14 >>> Well, they aren't sure how -- if this is
09:50:18 actually -- they found the silt barriers were
09:50:21 compromised.
09:50:22 They also found upstream of the location that there
09:50:24 was -- it appeared that there might have been some
09:50:26 illegal activity that was going on that was outside
09:50:28 the scope of the site, the project site, on the other
09:50:32 side of the creek.
09:50:34 It looked like there had been some mud bagging going
09:50:38 on as well so they weren't entirely sure if the

09:50:40 filtration was coming from where the mud bagging
09:50:44 incidents had occurred, and then also maybe some
09:50:46 compromise where the filtration barriers were down.
09:50:49 They met with the developers and the contractor.
09:50:52 They are now requiring that they do double filtration
09:50:56 barriers, so that you have a better chance especially
09:51:00 during the course of hopefully the rainy season that
09:51:02 will occur, that this will not happen again.
09:51:05 They are also requiring that they do temporary
09:51:10 channeling that it keep large amount of -- channeling
09:51:14 that will keep from compromising those filtration
09:51:17 barriers.
09:51:17 Then immediately subsequent to the complaint, they
09:51:20 went out on almost a daily basis, and now they have a
09:51:23 field tech going out on a weekly basis to double check
09:51:27 that.
09:51:28 So just to kind of give you an update on what the
09:51:32 actions were.
09:51:32 I understand EPC went out, took some water quality
09:51:35 samples, and this is what I am being told, and
09:51:39 actually followed some of the water.
09:51:41 But by the time it got to the Hillsborough County

09:51:43 line, there was not a water quality concern with
09:51:45 regard to it going into the Hillsborough River.
09:51:48 But your question to me was what could the city do to
09:51:52 participate to make sure that any actions would not
09:51:56 occur that could compromise the water quality of the
09:51:59 Hillsborough River?
09:52:03 We could continue to monitor with the agency.
09:52:06 Once a permit is issued there's not actually what I
09:52:08 would call interested party list that a person could
09:52:11 get on a list and say, you know, let me know what's
09:52:14 happening, give me an update.
09:52:18 We have to take an affirmative action to check with
09:52:20 the agency, check with the permit file, see if any
09:52:23 compliance reports have been issued.
09:52:27 We would have to take that initiative to do that.
09:52:30 And with the relationship that we have with the water
09:52:33 management district, they are more than happy to give
09:52:36 us any information at any time that we would request.
09:52:42 It rose to some kind of concern that we didn't feel
09:52:45 that the water management district was taking the
09:52:47 proper action.
09:52:48 There is a potential action that the city could take

09:52:51 legally down the road, and we could get into those
09:52:54 particular procedural requirements if it comes to bear
09:53:03 that we would need to take that action.
09:53:05 And if council so requested, if you wanted to send a
09:53:08 letter of concern, it would be put into the permit
09:53:12 file and so noted, you know, that the council had some
09:53:18 issues.
09:53:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you for this report.
09:53:23 I would like to make a motion, Madam Chairman, if you
09:53:26 would like me to draft a letter, I would be happy to
09:53:29 draft it noting our concerns. The thing that concerns
09:53:30 me the most, Jan, when I brought this up before the
09:53:33 permit was issued, I wanted us to weigh in eight
09:53:36 months ago, and I was told at the time that we had no
09:53:41 standing.
09:53:41 And I feel like it's so much more productive to be
09:53:45 proactive rather than, you know, moaning about a
09:53:50 problem after the fact.
09:53:51 So I would like to be able to -- I would like to write
09:53:56 a letter now.
09:53:56 But I would also like in the future, for example, with
09:54:00 the potential solid waste site that would be too close

09:54:04 to the water, up in Pasco County.
09:54:06 I'm glad that the city is doing things in advance of
09:54:09 permits being done.
09:54:10 And I would like you to explore the degree to which we
09:54:14 have standing to be a voice there, and if our staff
09:54:18 can come during the permit hearings and voice the
09:54:21 city's concerns and make sure -- see if it's
09:54:26 appropriate for a permit to be issued at all, and if
09:54:29 it is issued, what the monitoring is going to be.
09:54:32 Because this Cypress Creek video is pretty compelling
09:54:34 to me.
09:54:36 >>> And let me just follow up, too, because I did
09:54:39 leave that part out.
09:54:39 As I mentioned, I had discussed with the
09:54:42 representatives of the developer, who also happens to
09:54:45 be the representative for the proposed landfill in
09:54:49 Pasco County, but we had actually had a meeting with
09:54:56 representatives for the developers of the landfill,
09:54:58 and I happened to mention that I was also going to be
09:55:01 doing some investigation into the project.
09:55:04 That's how I found out he represented both, Mr. Jake
09:55:08 Barnes, the attorney who represents both of the

09:55:11 corporations.
09:55:11 (Bell sounds).
09:55:13 He has offered to either come and provide information
09:55:16 to the council.
09:55:17 That's now on the town creek mall.
09:55:21 To provide information to the council, to provide site
09:55:24 visits, any information that, you know, you feel that
09:55:26 you require.
09:55:27 They are very cognizant of public concern.
09:55:30 It's a very high image, visual thing.
09:55:34 I actually live in the area so I watch it every day as
09:55:36 well.
09:55:37 I am not able to access the creek because wherever
09:55:40 that location is would have been on-site project land,
09:55:45 so public is not allowed back there.
09:55:48 But I can continue to monitor this for you as I am
09:55:54 doing for the landfill and provide you the
09:55:56 information, if that's what you so desire.
09:56:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think my question is, has the EPC
09:56:06 for Hillsborough County weighed in on at all?
09:56:11 >>> I really couldn't answer that.
09:56:13 I know they did respond and did go up there to do a

09:56:16 site visit.
09:56:16 They were concerned about the water quality.
09:56:18 As far as taking any official action I'm not aware of
09:56:21 any.
09:56:22 >> Maybe council wants to consider that as well, as
09:56:26 far as participation involvement, in monitoring that
09:56:30 as well.
09:56:32 >>> I'm sure that they would be unofficially
09:56:36 monitoring it.
09:56:37 I don't know that their jurisdiction obviously, this
09:56:39 is in Pasco County.
09:56:43 >> I understand that but it's below a level of
09:56:48 acceptance.
09:56:49 >>> I understand that.
09:56:50 But it's beyond jurisdictional lines.
09:56:52 >>MARY MULHERN: I had a question.
09:56:53 I was just reading the information from Linda.
09:56:58 And did you say, Jan, that the Army corps had not been
09:57:05 up there?
09:57:06 >>> A no, I don't know whether they did or not.
09:57:09 >> It's in the paper apparently they did, and they
09:57:11 said they didn't find a problem.

09:57:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to make a motion that
09:57:17 we send a letter both to the EPC and to the SWFWMD
09:57:23 expressing our concern about this because of the
09:57:26 impact on our water supply and encouraging them to do,
09:57:29 you know, additional monitoring.
09:57:31 And I'll draft the letter.
09:57:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
09:57:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
09:57:36 >>MARY MULHERN: Can we add to the Army corps, too?
09:57:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Absolutely.
09:57:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
09:57:43 (Motion carried).
09:57:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would love to make a field trip
09:57:47 with you and with Mr. Varn and look at it and see how
09:57:53 they are being protected.
09:57:55 Thank you.
09:57:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Saul-Sena, you are going to draft
09:58:01 the letter?
09:58:01 >> Yes.
09:58:02 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 4 we need to receive and
09:58:04 file.
09:58:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Question.

09:58:08 Ms. Kert, I read your memo in regard to the Westshore
09:58:19 DRI issues, and the issues that those neighborhoods
09:58:23 over there are very, very concerned about.
09:58:27 Could we just get a time frame on, you know, when
09:58:31 legal -- it looks like there's a lot of exploration to
09:58:35 do in regard to legal aspects, but when do you want to
09:58:38 come back to us for a further report?
09:58:40 >>REBECCA KERT: Councilman Dingfelder, nothing can
09:58:44 actually happen with the Westshore DRI until
09:58:47 Westshore, the Westshore alliance, who is the
09:58:50 developer, files for an notice of proposed change to
09:58:54 the DRI.
09:58:55 We have spoken to Mr. Rotella.
09:58:58 I don't know exactly when their plans are so I can't
09:59:01 give you a time frame on that but I can tell you from
09:59:04 the legal department and the other departments have
09:59:05 been looking at these issues.
09:59:07 So when they do come forward, we are prepared, and we
09:59:09 are in discussion was them to help facilitate anything
09:59:13 they want to do.
09:59:14 But we can't force their hand in this.
09:59:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I spoke with Mr. Rotella about this

09:59:19 and he is eager to go.
09:59:20 So if he calls you, let's say, today or tomorrow,
09:59:23 let's say he calls you tomorrow and says we're ready
09:59:25 to go, then what would the time frame be?
09:59:28 >>REBECCA KERT: Well, depending upon what their actual
09:59:30 request was --
09:59:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It's specifically to change how
09:59:35 money can be spent so that it's spent on things other
09:59:38 than just capacity.
09:59:40 County be spent on pedestrian improvements, it can be
09:59:42 spent on traffic calming.
09:59:45 >>REBECCA KERT: There would also be additional changes
09:59:47 that would be required in line with that to other of
09:59:50 your ordinances so we are looking at probably at least
09:59:53 a six month process.
09:59:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Could you develop -- he will call
09:59:57 you by tomorrow.
09:59:58 So could you give us a time frame of how we can
10:00:02 accomplish this?
10:00:03 Because it was very upsetting to council that we have
10:00:05 this 30-acre proposing with all kinds of traffic
10:00:10 mitigation money, and we couldn't spend it the way the

10:00:13 neighborhood wanted it spent to protect them.
10:00:15 So six months is not great but it's better than
10:00:20 nothing.
10:00:21 So if he will call you.
10:00:22 Can you this N two weeks provide us back a report with
10:00:25 the time frame on the steps that need to be taken?
10:00:29 >>REBECCA KERT: We'll be happy to report back in two
10:00:31 weeks with the information we have.
10:00:32 >>GWEN MILLER: That's a motion?
10:00:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
10:00:36 (Motion carried).
10:00:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 5 need to receive and file
10:00:40 the written report.
10:00:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Madam Chairman, again there's
10:00:44 supposed to be a meeting in three days on this so this
10:00:46 wasn't definitive.
10:00:48 I would like a report back in two weeks on where we
10:00:52 are.
10:00:52 Either we are moving ahead with the school system or
10:00:55 just do something else.
10:00:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
10:00:57 (Motion carried).

10:00:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 6.
10:01:00 We are going to hear it with item number 20.
10:01:05 So let's go to item 7.
10:01:06 We have a written report.
10:01:07 We need to receive and file that written report.
10:01:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Moved.
10:01:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is Cindy here?
10:01:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: She's here.
10:01:15 Let's ask.
10:01:16 Let's hear it.
10:01:20 >>CINDY MILLER: Director of growth management
10:01:23 services.
10:01:23 The report that you have before you is that when it
10:01:25 comes to our construction service division employees,
10:01:29 they receive ongoing training mostly from the
10:01:33 standpoint of the State Road and the southern building
10:01:37 code.
10:01:37 We are working with a developer who has approached us
10:01:40 to monitor and have a pilot program as to
10:01:43 sustainability with primarily single-family homes but
10:01:48 also would look to apply this to other sites of
10:01:50 construction.

10:01:51 At this point we are just kicking off that pilot
10:01:52 program and hope to be back to knew a few months.
10:01:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yesterday, I attended Cathy
10:01:59 castor's sustainability workshop, and some people
10:02:02 there were people who are creating or working with new
10:02:07 materials that are more sustainable.
10:02:09 And they said that they had a problem with inspectors
10:02:13 not being familiar with these new materials, and
10:02:15 therefore rejecting them.
10:02:16 So that's the kind of training that we need to do as
10:02:20 quickly as possible.
10:02:21 It's not just about leads, it's about new materials,
10:02:23 new techniques.
10:02:24 And as expeditiously as we can, we need to make this
10:02:31 training available.
10:02:31 And I think I forwarded you an e-mail about the green
10:02:34 building council having training available but it
10:02:37 costs money and I didn't know if it was cheaper to
10:02:39 bring somebody in.
10:02:40 >> And we do continue to monitor that for new
10:02:43 materials.
10:02:44 That would primarily be at the approval levels format

10:02:47 permits, as to what types of materials are being used.
10:02:50 And the key that we have to make sure is that it's not
10:02:52 so much our local codes, it is really when it comes to
10:02:56 the Florida building code and the southern building
10:02:59 code, that we need to make sure that those entities
10:03:02 incorporate the changes, because in a number of cases
10:03:05 we have to make sure that it is approved by them
10:03:07 before we can approve it.
10:03:08 So I think that has to also work cooperatively with
10:03:13 the state and others.
10:03:15 >> Because the governor created this new initiative I
10:03:18 would assume he's putting some energy into expanding
10:03:20 that.
10:03:20 Are you getting materials from --
10:03:23 >>> We are monitoring what is occurring at the state
10:03:27 level.
10:03:27 I believe that the governor, however, will need to get
10:03:30 legislative action in order to incorporate any new
10:03:32 changes.
10:03:33 So we are going to continue to monitor that as
10:03:37 legislative session starts.
10:03:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Miller.

10:03:41 Council voted about a month ago to give me the honor
10:03:47 and privilege of creating a community task force to
10:03:51 develop a green building ordinance.
10:03:53 And I know you're familiar with that vote, Ms. Miller.
10:03:57 And we had our kickoff meeting this week.
10:03:59 And it is really fantastic.
10:04:02 We had architects, lawyers, residents, T.H.A.N.
10:04:07 representatives, home builders representatives, just
10:04:10 across the board, and a good 10, 15 quality folks.
10:04:15 And we sent the administration an invitation.
10:04:20 And mess knowledge -- must have slipped through the
10:04:24 cracks.
10:04:24 But, anyway -- and legal was there as well.
10:04:28 And we appreciate that.
10:04:29 But I just want to make sure that the administration
10:04:30 is participating in this, because the goal of the
10:04:35 group as stated this week is to develop an ordinance
10:04:38 for the City of Tampa, and that we'll bring back to
10:04:44 this council, we want to do it posthaste.
10:04:47 So far the city of Sarasota has done it.
10:04:49 City of Miami lakes has done it.
10:04:53 One other city, and I can't think of it.

10:04:55 Three cities have done it.
10:04:57 All smaller than Tampa.
10:04:59 I feel why shouldn't Tampa be taking the lead in terms
10:05:01 ever being a larger city to do this?
10:05:03 And the task force is very gung ho on it. Anyway, I
10:05:07 want to make sure that staff has a seat at this table,
10:05:10 because it's important that you do because you guys
10:05:12 know how we need to implement this and how this fits
10:05:15 in.
10:05:16 So I hope that staff will participate.
10:05:20 >>CINDY MILLER: And I do believe, Mr. Dingfelder, that
10:05:22 the staff is going to -- through David Smith's office
10:05:26 that the legal staff will be sitting in on the task
10:05:27 force.
10:05:28 >> That's legal staff, but they don't implement
10:05:30 policy.
10:05:31 Under the charter, you guys implement policy.
10:05:33 So, you know, we need to have the best ordinance
10:05:36 possible, and so I really encourage city staff to
10:05:41 participate with us.
10:05:42 That's all.
10:05:50 >>GWEN MILLER: You can do number 8.

10:05:53 >> Number 8.
10:05:54 I would like to didn't that.
10:05:58 In the memo that's being distributed is signed by both
10:06:01 me and by Karen Palus, director of Parks and
10:06:03 Recreation Department.
10:06:05 And this is, I would say, good news memo that we are
10:06:09 all on the same page.
10:06:10 I would like to basically identify for you on page 2,
10:06:14 the background on page 1, but let me summarize. This
10:06:17 was a request to take a look at whether we should do
10:06:22 for trees, whether it should be one 4-inch tree or two
10:06:27 2-inch trees.
10:06:29 And what we basically have identified -- and I'll read
10:06:32 from the memo -- that the data and information has
10:06:34 been revalidated.
10:06:36 We researched this in 2002.
10:06:38 We revalidated the information in the last couple of
10:06:40 weeks an it remains the basis of our consensus, that
10:06:43 whereas the larger trees provide a canopy quicker,
10:06:47 their viability is not as good as the smaller trees
10:06:50 particularly in drought conditions which we
10:06:52 experienced back in those earlier years as well as

10:06:54 this year.
10:06:55 In addition, the larger trees are not as readily
10:06:57 available and thus much more expensive than the
10:06:59 smaller trees, therefore driving up the cost of
10:07:01 development.
10:07:02 So we believe that the code currently allows the
10:07:05 voluntary substitution of a one 4-inch tree for two
10:07:09 2-inch trees and we think that is a good substitution
10:07:12 to be able to be able to continue to allow.
10:07:15 So we are in consensus that this kind of voluntary
10:07:19 substitution continues to be the right approach.
10:07:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Number 13?
10:07:27 Ms. Mulhern?
10:07:29 >>MARY MULHERN: My question is probably just because
10:07:31 I'm not that familiar the tree ordinance.
10:07:34 But when we require those trees, do they have to be
10:07:37 shade trees?
10:07:38 Or can it be a palm tree?
10:07:53 >>> Steve Graham, Parks and Recreation Department.
10:07:56 Palms are also an option unless it relates to
10:07:58 mitigation, in which case if a shade tree has been
10:08:00 taken out then it should be replaced with shade tree.

10:08:03 But as far as the landscaping code, any of the
10:08:07 approved required trees, which includes palms, can be
10:08:10 planted.
10:08:12 >>MARY MULHERN: I think that's something we should
10:08:14 think about.
10:08:15 Because you're saying smaller trees are more viable.
10:08:19 That makes sense.
10:08:20 But if you are putting in a little palm tree -- you
10:08:23 know, I just don't think there's any comparison
10:08:26 between a palm tree and a shade tree.
10:08:28 I don't know if we can revisit that.
10:08:34 >>> Currently palm trees have to meet a certain size
10:08:37 to even qualify as a required tree.
10:08:39 And I'm thinking six feet of cleared trunk, and
10:08:44 planted in groupings which have been on they are, they
10:08:47 do provide some shade.
10:08:49 But they are not shade trees.
10:08:50 And when it comes to particular use areas, those areas
10:08:54 specify shade trees where they are most needed to
10:08:58 mitigate.
10:09:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Graham, I consider you the
10:09:11 ultimate urban forester in our city.

10:09:14 >>> Thank you.
10:09:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: If our goal is to have a healthy
10:09:22 tree canopy in the city, and the reason for our
10:09:25 requirement is to ensure that when new houses or
10:09:29 businesses are built that we have the best trees, is
10:09:32 it your feeling that two inches rather than -- it
10:09:39 seems to me costwise that the four inch, you only have
10:09:42 to plant one as opposed to keeping track of two.
10:09:46 Is the difference because of the fact it's
10:09:50 containerized?
10:09:51 Is that why people are hesitant to go for the four
10:09:54 inch?
10:09:54 >> I think the largest concern is cost.
10:09:57 Not only to purchase the material, but the handling
10:10:02 and the shifting, and then when viability enters into
10:10:06 the equation and the additional maintenance, a
10:10:11 four-inch tree is not going to be as forgiving as a
10:10:13 two-inch tree.
10:10:15 And, frankly, over a period of about three years,
10:10:19 everything else equals, 2-inch tree will almost catch
10:10:24 up to the size of a 4-inch trees just because 4-inch
10:10:27 trees are slower to establish.

10:10:29 They are more meticulous, more demanding in terms of
10:10:32 having uniform moisture, uniform nutrition.
10:10:35 They really have to be kind of babied.
10:10:39 And that's true, the larger the tree -- when we
10:10:43 transplant the two large trees at the University of
10:10:45 Tampa were moved, one of them did fairly well. The
10:10:48 other one didn't.
10:10:49 Just because there was a week or so where the
10:10:52 irrigation was turned off and then all of a sudden
10:10:55 things went south.
10:10:56 So the larger the tree, the more unforgiving.
10:11:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Miller, number 13.
10:11:08 >>CINDY MILLER: I have distributed a memo that was in
10:11:11 your agenda packet signed by David Smith and me
10:11:18 regarding some suggestions for making minor
10:11:20 modifications to the Variance Review Board.
10:11:23 There had been some suggestions at a council meeting a
10:11:25 few weeks ago and Donna Wysong from legal staff and I
10:11:28 got together and looked at the requirements.
10:11:30 And what we are basically looking at is when it comes
10:11:33 to pointing members, making some relatively minor
10:11:37 changes, but I think it's going to help to attract the

10:11:41 appropriate professionals to the board.
10:11:45 There is already a provision where two arborists or
10:11:48 nurserymen or horticulturists or urban foresters have
10:11:53 a category.
10:11:53 But we are recommending we add landscape architects to
10:11:58 that.
10:11:58 So it just broadens it but with a very similar kind of
10:12:02 qualification.
10:12:03 There is another section where currently landscape
10:12:05 architects appear where it shows two attorneys or
10:12:08 architects or urban planners or landscape architects.
10:12:13 Sort of have landscape architects, I don't think
10:12:16 competing but in that same category.
10:12:18 We recommend landscape architects come out of one
10:12:20 category and go into the other and that we also add
10:12:23 the profession of engineering to the section that
10:12:26 includes attorneys, architects and urban planners.
10:12:28 That is the recommendation from legal and from my
10:12:31 staff, and if you concur on this proposed change,
10:12:35 we'll be very happy to present it in a form for the
10:12:38 future.
10:12:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?

10:12:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Cindy. The question I
10:12:43 have, in the same paragraph, it says -- and I'm good
10:12:51 with the change that you propose.
10:12:53 But the question I have is right now, it says, and two
10:12:58 persons representing neighborhood interests, paren,
10:13:03 preferably not with any of the professions listed
10:13:06 above.
10:13:06 And I think we should perhaps consider striking that.
10:13:10 Because that would seem to penalize the neighborhood,
10:13:15 the two neighborhood people that we might pick.
10:13:18 You know, what if they are a retired attorney?
10:13:22 What if they are a reactive landscape architect but
10:13:26 also happens to be a neighborhood activist?
10:13:29 >>> We have no problem with from the standpoint of
10:13:32 flexibility.
10:13:32 >> I don't want to penalize -- a neighborhood person
10:13:35 is a neighborhood person, regardless of what their
10:13:36 profession is.
10:13:37 I don't want to penalize somebody just because they
10:13:40 happened to be in the same profession.
10:13:42 So if council is good with that or doesn't have any
10:13:46 objections to that, maybe strike that provision.

10:13:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would second that.
10:13:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Is that a motion?
10:13:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Sure.
10:13:57 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion?
10:13:59 (Motion carried).
10:13:59 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm just thinking that if you take
10:14:05 that landscape architect out of one of the categories,
10:14:08 and then just put in the other one, we can run into
10:14:10 the same problem.
10:14:11 Part of my problem with it is that when you restricted
10:14:14 each of those positions, we got into a problem of
10:14:18 finding the person.
10:14:19 So, I mean, I don't see it as competing.
10:14:22 I just see it as allowing us a little more room to
10:14:24 find people to fill those.
10:14:28 I would like to just leave it in there, unless there's
10:14:31 some reason not to.
10:14:35 >>CINDY MILLER: Again I'm involved in looking at the
10:14:37 application that is come from the mayor's appointments
10:14:39 and we just found by having landscape architects -- I
10:14:43 don't want to say again in competition but in the same
10:14:46 category as the other professions that it ended up

10:14:50 causing -- that we have landscape architects that are
10:14:53 applying for the position.
10:14:54 But because we either already had an stress on board
10:14:57 or already had an architect on the board we weren't
10:14:59 able to appoint them.
10:15:00 However, if we remove that profession from that
10:15:03 section and move it up to where it's urban forestry
10:15:06 and horticulturist, we may be able to get more
10:15:10 landscape architects to be appointed so it gave
10:15:12 greater flexibility in our view.
10:15:16 >>MARY MULHERN: There are more slots on one category?
10:15:18 >> I think council expressed this as well.
10:15:22 I know I already experienced it myself.
10:15:24 When it came to nurserymen, horticulturist, urban
10:15:28 foresters, we had difficulty getting folks that
10:15:31 qualify into those professions but I have had
10:15:33 arborists and landscape architects apply.
10:15:36 So if we can just move the landscape architect into
10:15:40 that other category I think we'll have another
10:15:43 opportunity.
10:15:43 The other situation, I also want to point out, is we
10:15:46 also get applications from a number of people but they

10:15:47 are not residents of Tampa.
10:15:49 So that is also a key concern.
10:15:51 So sometimes we may very well have people apply but
10:15:55 they have to be a resident of the city.
10:15:56 So we just believe this is something that may give
10:15:59 some greater opportunity and flexibility for council
10:16:01 and to the mayor for her appointment.
10:16:03 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to hear since we appoint
10:16:07 some of those -- oh, is that a mayoral appointment?
10:16:10 >>> One is a mayoral appointment.
10:16:11 The way it reads for the arborists, it's two arborists
10:16:14 or nurserymen or horticulturist or urban foresters or
10:16:18 landscape architects but not more than one of each.
10:16:21 One appointed by the mayor and the other by City
10:16:23 Council.
10:16:26 So, in effect, if we have, say, two arborists and two
10:16:32 architects they are requesting appointments.
10:16:33 It would be wonderful to have that kind of number
10:16:36 asking to be appointed.
10:16:37 The mayor could appoint someone who is classified as
10:16:40 an arborist.
10:16:42 Council could have landscape opportunities.

10:16:44 Or if council already pointed someone from those
10:16:46 categories the mayor would have to appoint from
10:16:48 another category.
10:16:49 It's just my experience with working with this board,
10:16:51 I think this will give both council and the
10:16:53 administration greater opportunity for appointment.
10:17:00 >>MARY MULHERN: Do council members feel that they are
10:17:03 okay with that?
10:17:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Change the --
10:17:11 >>MARY MULHERN: I know the reason I think I brought
10:17:14 this up is because we couldn't include one in that
10:17:16 category.
10:17:17 But I don't understand why it wouldn't come up in
10:17:21 another instance.
10:17:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think this allows us greater
10:17:27 flexibility.
10:17:30 And that's what we are looking for.
10:17:32 Looking for a professional being precluded from a
10:17:37 landscape slot and landscape --
10:17:42 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, my question was because she's
10:17:44 taking the landscape architect out of one of the
10:17:46 appointment categories and putting it in the other

10:17:49 one, are we actually gaining -- you know, we are
10:17:52 gaining more flexibility with one of the appointments
10:17:54 but not with the other one.
10:17:58 If you don't see it as a problem.
10:18:03 >> I don't think it's a problem.
10:18:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Actually, the intent of my motion
10:18:08 was to include Ms. Miller's suggestion as well as add
10:18:13 to with the striking of the parenthetical that I
10:18:16 mentioned so that was really the intent of my motion.
10:18:20 >>> And we'll work with legal to bring that back in
10:18:21 the next couple weeks.
10:18:22 >>GWEN MILLER: All right, thank you.
10:18:24 We now go to item number 9.
10:18:26 We have a written report we need to receive and file.
10:18:29 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
10:18:31 >> Second.
10:18:31 (Motion carried).
10:18:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 10.
10:18:37 Anybody here from parking dent?
10:18:43 >>> Urban Lee, director of public works.
10:18:45 Just want to give you all some information regarding
10:18:50 your question on security personnel.

10:18:57 Behind 7th and 8th.
10:18:58 We do have four parking enforcement specialists that
10:19:02 worked in an area at three in the morning.
10:19:07 The operations we have done is divided the area up
10:19:09 into four zones to facilitate coverage, and
10:19:12 observation of the area.
10:19:14 The more vehicles there are A and the longer time,
10:19:19 especially in those lots, there's a direct correlation
10:19:23 to the activity there and the amount of time they are
10:19:30 spending.
10:19:31 They are trained observers.
10:19:32 And they do have PPD radios, or radios that allow them
10:19:37 to be in direct contact with TPD dispatch.
10:19:39 I must say, we are working this issue in conjunction
10:19:42 with TPD and working with them to ensure that we are
10:19:45 providing appropriate coverage there.
10:19:48 We have a project right now that we are working on, we
10:19:52 are waiting the completion and design to add 1,000
10:19:56 shoe box lights to those three lots, the two lots
10:20:00 there, lot 6 and 5 there, 7th and 8th.
10:20:04 So those are some of the things we are working on.
10:20:08 Any other specific questions?

10:20:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I spoke with Mr. Capitano who is
10:20:14 very involved with the Italian club and very familiar
10:20:16 with this area.
10:20:17 And he says that based on the fact that our violent
10:20:23 incidents have occurred on city lots, which is totally
10:20:25 embarrassing, that he felt that it would be much more
10:20:29 effective to have the people not patrolling around but
10:20:34 one individual, not going around giving tickets, but
10:20:37 staying right there, particularly from like mid nature
10:20:39 to 3:30, just keeping an eye on things.
10:20:42 On the two lots north of -- you know what I'm talking
10:20:46 about.
10:20:46 And I think we should try that for awhile.
10:20:49 I mean, because he feels like the city's emphasis is
10:20:52 on revenue collection through giving out tickets
10:20:55 rather than through ensuring public safety.
10:20:57 And I think that public safety has to be our greatest
10:21:03 concern.
10:21:03 And security officers, not giving out ticket folks, or
10:21:11 maybe they do both.
10:21:12 But he felt that the emphasis has been much more on
10:21:15 the giving out ticket than on providing the security

10:21:18 that we need to have in Ybor north of 7th.
10:21:23 >>> That's something we can take a look at.
10:21:24 But again, I guess what I'm saying is, the enforcement
10:21:28 specialists that are there are spending a significant
10:21:31 amount of time in their lots already.
10:21:33 Now, when they see something, essentially all they are
10:21:37 going -- some type of criminal activity all they are
10:21:40 going to do is call someone.
10:21:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: But their presence has a deterrent
10:21:46 effect.
10:21:46 I understand from the charter we can't ask you to do
10:21:48 this.
10:21:49 I mean, we can't direct you to do this but we can like
10:21:52 politely ask that we are hearing from our
10:21:56 constituents, this has been a problem in terms of
10:21:57 security.
10:21:58 >>> Sure.
10:21:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ms. Saul-Sena, I'm just wondering,
10:22:03 are you thinking about having TPD presence on those
10:22:06 lots?
10:22:07 Or just public works?
10:22:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No, these parking security people I

10:22:13 think will be enough if they are there looking like
10:22:16 city official people.
10:22:17 >> More in the way of patrol?
10:22:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Evidently, there's a lot going on
10:22:22 in these lots.
10:22:23 I think what would be appropriate is to ask for a
10:22:26 report, or you probably have the report on the safety,
10:22:30 incidents of theft, and violence, and robbery in these
10:22:34 lots.
10:22:34 And these are city property.
10:22:39 >> How late are your folks there?
10:22:43 >>> They are there till 3 a.m.
10:22:44 And again, we are working with TPD on this.
10:22:47 And they do have emphasis areas throughout that area.
10:22:53 And the challenge becomes two or three in the morning
10:22:57 when some of those establishments there, you know,
10:23:00 shut down, having literally hundreds of people in the
10:23:07 lot at one time, a situation that is somewhat tenuous.
10:23:12 Now TPD does have plain clothes folks in those lots as
10:23:15 well as their uniform personnel.
10:23:16 So I think this is something that we can work on.
10:23:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: There's a lot near the Centro.

10:23:24 Is it full on a Saturday night, or Friday night?
10:23:26 >>> It varies depending.
10:23:30 >> If we can't make it safe then maybe we need to have
10:23:32 no parking in these surface lots and just try to get
10:23:35 people to be in the structured parking where it's
10:23:39 perhaps better lit, easier to patrol.
10:23:42 Maybe the thing to do is request a report in a month
10:23:44 of what the crime situation is, and what our
10:23:48 patrolling has been.
10:23:49 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Lee, on some of these lots,
10:23:54 at 3:00 in the morning, I think you need somebody with
10:23:57 authority.
10:23:58 You just can't stick some guy there to give him a job
10:24:01 for four or five hours, because when you get a guy
10:24:04 coming back, or a female, whatever it may be, they are
10:24:07 going to be confrontational.
10:24:09 And we are going to end up with lawsuits.
10:24:12 I think you're better off having somebody with
10:24:14 authority there.
10:24:16 Just to take somebody and stick them in this lot, I
10:24:19 think you're putting their lives in jeopardy.
10:24:21 When a person has too much alcohol, things happen.

10:24:26 >>> I would agree.
10:24:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Madam Chairman, I guess maybe what
10:24:33 I would like to do is request a report in six weeks, I
10:24:39 guess of statistics dealing with the two parking
10:24:41 lots -- well, the city parking lots north of 7th
10:24:44 Avenue in terms of crime, and what sort of personnel
10:24:52 coverage you have been able to provide.
10:24:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The only question I have on that,
10:25:00 Mr. Lee, do we keep those types -- does your office
10:25:05 keep those types of statistics in terms of incidents,
10:25:09 incident reports, that kind of thing?
10:25:13 >>> We do, but we primarily -- and I would have to get
10:25:17 back with you on this T specifics.
10:25:19 But I know we tracked incidents or damage to city
10:25:23 properties or things that occur on city property
10:25:25 within the parking division.
10:25:26 But I think -- I believe we get our information in
10:25:31 coordination with TPD in looking at their crime
10:25:33 statistics.
10:25:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think it it's not necessarily Ms.
10:25:37 Saul-Sena's intent to have you create this
10:25:39 information.

10:25:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No, no.
10:25:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just to compile it and get it to
10:25:43 us.
10:25:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think what would be best to ask
10:25:47 the administration to see if it's easier to get it
10:25:49 from TPD or you all.
10:25:50 I'm not interested in the source, I'm just interested
10:25:53 in the information to see how we are doing in terms of
10:25:55 public safety on city parking lots north of 7th.
10:25:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So it's focused on these lots?
10:26:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
10:26:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I would like to offer a friendly
10:26:04 amendment to Ms. Saul-Sena's statement F.we are going
10:26:06 to look at an area, we should look beyond just two
10:26:09 lots.
10:26:11 The TPD certainly has statistics, I believe, on any
10:26:14 arrests were made at a certain location or certain
10:26:16 time to pinpoint chain of events, including the
10:26:20 surface high-rise parking lots, surface and high-rise,
10:26:24 and those lots that are owned by individuals that are
10:26:25 not owned by the city, I don't think anybody says I'm
10:26:30 going to do crime here because it's a city lot.

10:26:32 I understand that.
10:26:33 But I would like, if I get a report, I would like to
10:26:37 be with the magnitude of activities done on each of
10:26:43 the parking surface lots, paved or unpaved, street
10:26:47 parking or high-rise parking.
10:26:50 I'll offer that as an amendment.
10:26:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Absolutely.
10:26:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
10:26:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Question on the motion, Mr. Shelby?
10:26:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The date would be the first meeting
10:26:59 in October?
10:27:01 It has to be the first or third as council passed new
10:27:04 rules.
10:27:05 >>GWEN MILLER: This is a written report.
10:27:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Six weeks from now?
10:27:09 That's not really six weeks.
10:27:12 Let's do it --
10:27:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Two weeks later would be the
10:27:16 18th, I believe.
10:27:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The 18th.
10:27:19 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:27:20 (Motion carried)

10:27:21 Okay.
10:27:22 Item number 11.
10:27:23 Do we have the resolution?
10:27:29 >>> Hargrett, legal.
10:27:30 You all requested August 9th resolution, and I
10:27:33 believe you all received it.
10:27:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: This is in regard to your camp
10:27:47 program, your camp preschool program?
10:27:51 Anyway, we appreciate your prompt response to
10:27:54 council's motion on this, only two weeks to put this
10:27:57 together.
10:27:58 And thank you very much.
10:28:00 I'm hearing some differing things in regard to how
10:28:03 quickly we can reopen.
10:28:08 It's probably not even a word but start the program
10:28:10 again.
10:28:10 And also I'm wondering, have we contacted or will we
10:28:15 if we pass this today contact the parents who
10:28:17 everybody in the program in the past, or other parents
10:28:20 who have expressed interest, to let them know that we
10:28:22 will be doing this?
10:28:26 >> Palus: Staff is prepared, again making the phone

10:28:30 calls this arch, then forward with the registration
10:28:34 packages.
10:28:35 >> Optimistically when do you start the program to
10:28:38 start?
10:28:38 I'm hearing different things.
10:28:40 >>> Depending on the registration and how quickly they
10:28:42 go they will meet the minimum if 25 participants per
10:28:44 program to begin.
10:28:46 If we are able to do that in this next week and it's a
10:28:48 very short window they typically would start on
10:28:50 September 4th, which is next week to get everyone
10:28:53 in, but they all get through and able to start on
10:28:56 September 4th so move in that direction.
10:28:57 If we are not we need to postpone a particular program
10:29:00 until we have the minimum number of apartments,.
10:29:04 >> So I guess the message to those young families that
10:29:06 not only register but bring your friends.
10:29:08 >>> Very much so.
10:29:09 Thank you.
10:29:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Madam Chair, I appreciate all the
10:29:14 work that Mr. Dingfelder and the rest of the council
10:29:16 members have done but I don't want to leave here in my

10:29:18 mind anyway giving the hard working families who have
10:29:21 these young kids that attend these centers, camp,
10:29:24 centers, that this cost is going to be a cost that's
10:29:26 going to be stagnant.
10:29:28 This cost will change, as things change in the
10:29:30 community and cost rises to produce the service.
10:29:33 So I want to make sure that they know that.
10:29:36 This is not going to be -- just like any other
10:29:40 preschool thing is not constant.
10:29:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I guess my question is, as a
10:29:46 follow-up, that the operation of the program costs
10:29:49 180,000.
10:29:50 So what we talk about in terms of fee based in terms
10:29:55 of household.
10:29:56 >> I'm not sure I understood the question.
10:30:01 >> The impact is the program is 180,000, right?
10:30:04 So now we are raising the fee for this particular
10:30:08 program, right?
10:30:09 >>> Yes.
10:30:10 >> And the question will become, households that
10:30:14 participate in this, what will be per household?
10:30:18 >>> It will be $45 per week to start and that will

10:30:21 start with this year.
10:30:22 Then we'll evaluate on an annual basis what the actual
10:30:25 costs are for that program.
10:30:26 And then we'll establish that through the budget
10:30:30 process each year.
10:30:31 >>GWEN MILLER: 45 per person?
10:30:34 >>> Per child per week, yes
10:30:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So this is a problem that's $45 and
10:30:40 how much were they paying before?
10:30:41 >>> They were paying $18 per week.
10:30:49 >>> We evaluated the private sectors and we are still
10:30:52 very extremely low.
10:30:54 If you take a similar program in the Pinellas area and
10:30:58 another program in the private sector, the Pinellas
10:31:00 area is running about $96 a week per child and a
10:31:05 little further down south they are running about $86
10:31:08 per child per week.
10:31:09 And then the actual private like church-type programs
10:31:13 and such, they are running about 180 per week.
10:31:17 That's $180 per week.
10:31:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Sounds good to me.
10:31:25 I'll move the resolution unless there's further

10:31:27 discussion.
10:31:27 (Motion carried)
10:31:30 We are going to move to item 16.
10:31:33 Ms. Saul-Sena has to leave.
10:31:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:31:37 Legal department for item 16.
10:31:38 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
10:31:45 I had submitted to all the City Council members a
10:31:48 wonderful resource book that was -- along with a memo
10:31:53 that was drafted by Yolanda Fertulano, a first year
10:32:02 law student for Carlton Fields, and worked with.
10:32:09 The person who sat as chair of the commission, and
10:32:12 that notebook and the information provided, in that
10:32:14 notebook is an excellent presentation on the transfer
10:32:18 of development rights.
10:32:19 And I thought it would be appropriate for you all to
10:32:21 have the benefit of that, to be able to review that
10:32:24 information, because, quite frankly, they did a heck
10:32:28 of a job getting all that information together.
10:32:30 And I do want to just take an opportunity to thank
10:32:32 them for all that work because I don't think I would
10:32:34 have had the time to put that much together and they

10:32:37 really did a wonderful job.
10:32:39 To gist give you a short presentation on where we are
10:32:43 and what our plans are, the city's intent, the city
10:32:46 staff and the legal department's intent is to take the
10:32:49 information that has been provided to us and review
10:32:53 our code and review what we can do in terms of having
10:32:56 a transfer of development rights program within the
10:32:59 city, and it's for historic preservation issues.
10:33:04 It does have other applications.
10:33:06 And I think you will see that in the information
10:33:08 provided.
10:33:10 But for now, I think to focus on the historic
10:33:12 preservation issues, and to look and see how we can
10:33:15 adopt some type of program within the city, and we
10:33:18 hope to be able to bring something back to you in the
10:33:20 January cycle.
10:33:21 But just so you know, some of the policy
10:33:24 considerations, and I think it's very well stated
10:33:27 within the memorandum, relate to the fact that it's
10:33:30 very easy to have an area where you know that you have
10:33:34 development rights that you want to transfer.
10:33:36 And for those of you who don't know exactly what a

10:33:39 transfer of development rights program is, what that
10:33:41 is, is you have a property, a property owner who has
10:33:44 development rights on property that the city would
10:33:46 like to preserve, or in some way be able to limit the
10:33:52 development rights on that property.
10:33:54 So the method of compensation, you create a process by
10:33:58 which one property owner can take those development
10:34:00 rights and sell them to another property owner.
10:34:05 And the trick is having properties that you want to
10:34:07 see developed in a manner with additional densities.
10:34:12 So it's really -- the easy part of this process is
10:34:15 finding where you want to limit development or
10:34:18 preserve existing buildings as in the case of historic
10:34:22 preservation.
10:34:22 The hard part is deciding where you want to encourage
10:34:25 the transfer of that development right to the property
10:34:29 that would ultimately be the receiving parcel.
10:34:31 So city staff, and I have been working with Thom
10:34:35 Snelling and Cathy Coyle.
10:34:37 We have been looking at places that we want to try to
10:34:39 encourage development at this point, and ultimately be
10:34:42 able to bring back to you, probably in our January

10:34:45 cycle, that's our goal, that type of program.
10:34:49 I think in the long-term, we will need to look at this
10:34:52 as something that the city feels is important and
10:34:55 wants to encourage.
10:34:56 We will need to look at part of our comprehensive plan
10:34:59 update and as part of some of the other things that we
10:35:01 are thinking about doing for transit and affordable
10:35:04 housing and for other issues.
10:35:07 We want to encourage development and utilize this
10:35:09 program in a larger scale.
10:35:11 But I think for now we are looking at things that we
10:35:13 can do in the short and hope to bring that back to
10:35:17 knew January.
10:35:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
10:35:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Cole.
10:35:27 Thank you, Carlton field, and her team for all that
10:35:32 good work.
10:35:33 Haven't had a chance to go through the book but I am
10:35:35 going to.
10:35:37 I think what I would like to see is an interim report,
10:35:43 perhaps, in October, November, just so we can keep the
10:35:47 momentum going, and we are all on the same page.

10:35:51 And by then we'll have a chance to dig into that and
10:35:54 be better familiar with it.
10:35:56 So, anyway, that would be a motion I'll make
10:36:06 I think this discussion would be appropriate for one
10:36:08 of those other Thursday meetings, because it will be a
10:36:12 longer and more of a workshop format.
10:36:17 So what would that October meeting date be for the --
10:36:23 >>JULIA COLE: If I could say, have Cathy Coyle October
10:36:29 or November.
10:36:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Or we could choose November. If
10:36:33 you would rather November, I'll defer to staff.
10:36:37 November 29th.
10:36:39 What are we calling these things, workshop meetings?
10:36:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: November is interesting because you
10:36:46 also have --
10:36:48 >>> We could do it earlier in November.
10:36:50 9.
10:36:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We only have that one Thursday.
10:36:56 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That would be, what, October
10:36:57 25th?
10:37:00 You have a discussion on resolutions for dredging Lake
10:37:03 Kipling.

10:37:04 This would be appropriate.
10:37:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think the intent on those days,
10:37:09 we have multiple issues because you have got three or
10:37:11 four hours to do it.
10:37:14 >>MARY MULHERN: October 25th, I had a proposal for
10:37:19 a workshop that needs at least two hours.
10:37:22 I was going to talk about it in new business.
10:37:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: November 29th then.
10:37:35 That would be my motion.
10:37:36 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:37:38 (Motion carried).
10:37:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like Ms. Lockett to come up
10:37:43 and be recognized, the student.
10:37:45 You put so much work into this and it's something that
10:37:48 we would love to have done but couldn't afford and
10:37:52 because of directing your student, your intern toward
10:37:54 this, we are able to.
10:37:56 >>> Thank you.
10:37:56 She couldn't come because she had class this morning
10:37:58 and I couldn't drag her away from it.
10:38:00 But it was really a wonderful opportunity for us,
10:38:03 because with our summer law students, we are always

10:38:07 looking for opportunities for things other than
10:38:09 litigation to get them involved with and to have a
10:38:12 chance to work with Julia Cole, Rebecca Kert, it was a
10:38:15 great opportunity.
10:38:19 If I could reinforce one thing that Julia said.
10:38:22 We went into this thinking it was something to help us
10:38:24 with perceived problems in the preservation ordinance.
10:38:26 But, really, this is going to be a great tool in your
10:38:30 tool box to facilitate some of the things that you
10:38:32 want to accomplish, these are areas that you want to
10:38:35 bring additional density, whether it's transit
10:38:37 corridors, or areas of the city, or particular kinds
10:38:42 of development, like workforce housing.
10:38:45 If that's something you want us to facilitate.
10:38:50 TDRs around the country to encourage those types of
10:38:53 things.
10:38:54 I think with that we can come up with something that
10:38:56 is really a win-win for the preservation community as
10:38:58 well as on some of these other issues.
10:39:00 I just want to thank you and we are looking forward to
10:39:02 continuing to the collaboration.
10:39:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.

10:39:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 12, Mr. Dingfelder.
10:39:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Are there folks here on the tennis
10:39:22 issues?
10:39:22 And Karen is here, too.
10:39:35 Karen, why don't you start out with a little
10:39:37 background? This has to do with the Hillsborough
10:39:40 college tennis issues and perhaps some other tennis
10:39:43 issues around town that I'm not familiar with.
10:39:46 But give us a little briefing on HCC tennis.
10:39:49 >>> I can give you a quick update with regards to HCC,
10:39:52 with our budget proposal, we did move forward with
10:39:56 elimination of our operations at that location.
10:39:59 We had originally planned on October 1st as the
10:40:04 new budget year came forward.
10:40:05 However, due to reasons, further discussion was HCC
10:40:09 they have been able to continue to honor their
10:40:10 contract, and we have now been able to honor our
10:40:15 contract through the existing agreement which would be
10:40:18 March 2nd of 2008.
10:40:20 So we will finish up as a city operation of HCC in
10:40:26 March ever 2008, and HCC will continue to work with
10:40:29 the community tennis organizations as well as the

10:40:32 individuals that want to participate in their public
10:40:35 process.
10:40:36 They have a master plan that they are moving towards,
10:40:38 of which the tennis complex may be impacted, so what
10:40:42 extent at this point they are not sure.
10:40:44 They are in the process in the next 30 to 60 days to
10:40:48 hire and architectural engineering firm to begin that
10:40:52 design process.
10:40:52 And we were notified by them that they were not
10:40:55 interested in renewing our 20-year agreement quite
10:40:59 awhile ago.
10:40:59 So we have been working with them through this process
10:41:02 since the beginning.
10:41:04 We have been assured by HCC that they are still
10:41:07 committed to some form or fashion of tennis on that
10:41:10 facility.
10:41:11 However, at this time, the city is not prepared to
10:41:14 continue our operation in that regard, but we have
10:41:18 given them a lot of good ideas and things that they
10:41:20 may be able to do to provide a public facility, as
10:41:23 well as meet the needs of the college at that
10:41:25 location.

10:41:26 So we are still willing to participate with them.
10:41:31 We have met with a steering group from several
10:41:34 interested tennis folks, and we have had some
10:41:36 successful meetings, and we'll continue on, to keep
10:41:40 them informed and keep them updated.
10:41:42 We will continue our full operation through the week
10:41:45 at HCC, Monday through Friday, which is about 8 a.m.
10:41:51 to 9 p.m. operation, and short ten hours on weekends
10:41:55 from 8 to 1 operation on the weekend.
10:41:58 So we are still providing the activities, and the
10:42:01 programs and the availability of the R, just a
10:42:05 modified version of our existing agreement with HCC.
10:42:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That's from October --
10:42:11 >>> From now until March 2nd until the agreement
10:42:13 expires officially.
10:42:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We have T city has a pretty
10:42:18 significant investment at HCC.
10:42:22 I think Mayor Freedman and her administration.
10:42:24 What is that?
10:42:26 >>KAREN PALUS: We were responsible for the completion
10:42:28 of the construction of the facility on their property.
10:42:30 We have had shared operating expenses in that location

10:42:36 since that agreement went into existence.
10:42:39 They right now cover all the utility costs including
10:42:41 the lights and such.
10:42:43 We do the maintenance and do the operations to the
10:42:46 programs and have the tennis pro shop, along with some
10:42:49 independent contractors for instructors and such.
10:42:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Palus, looking through this
10:42:56 booklet, some of the tennis courts are in fair
10:42:59 condition.
10:42:59 What is going to be done about those?
10:43:01 >>KAREN PALUS: We have money in our CIT funds that we
10:43:05 rotate each year to different facilities so we
10:43:07 continue to bring them up to standards and work
10:43:09 towards that goal.
10:43:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:43:23 >>> My name is Gary Shepherd, a life-long resident of
10:43:27 Tampa, 3422 South Beach drive.
10:43:30 First of all, I would like to thank the city for doing
10:43:33 what it can to keep the HCC complex open, or finding a
10:43:37 way to do that.
10:43:38 That's terrific, the next few months that's very
10:43:40 important to us, as tennis players.

10:43:45 I have played tennis for about 40 years myself.
10:43:47 I'm a coach.
10:43:48 I work with kids and adults teaching tennis. I'm a
10:43:50 USTA official.
10:43:52 I officiate matches.
10:43:53 I'm one of those guys who says in or out on matches
10:43:57 and so forth.
10:43:58 If there's one message I want to get across today,
10:44:01 it's that tennis is just growing amazingly fast.
10:44:07 I gave awe chart.
10:44:09 Tennis is the only sport that's really growing in the
10:44:11 United States.
10:44:12 Baseball is losing participants, football is, soccer
10:44:14 is.
10:44:15 Every sport is actually losing participants except
10:44:17 tennis.
10:44:18 Tennis has grown by about 10% since 2000.
10:44:24 Which is surprising to me.
10:44:25 I see it every day at all the courts around Tampa.
10:44:30 Himes and Davis Island.
10:44:31 They are always busy, busy all the time.
10:44:34 And it's really interesting how tennis is in fact

10:44:38 growing so rapidly these days.
10:44:42 A couple other statistics I want to mention.
10:44:44 Tennis, about 70 or 80% of ten sis played on public
10:44:48 courts, as far as being an amenity that the city can
10:44:51 offer.
10:44:52 It's really a good thing to have.
10:44:53 The variety majority of ten sis played on public
10:44:57 courts.
10:44:57 One-third of new tennis players are minorities.
10:45:01 It's not really a country club sport as it once was.
10:45:08 The organization I'm with is called the Hillsborough
10:45:10 County county tennis association.
10:45:11 It's newly formed.
10:45:13 We represent about 3,000 USTA members in Hillsborough
10:45:17 County.
10:45:20 And based on statistics and information, we kind of
10:45:22 figure there are about 90,000 tennis players in
10:45:25 Hillsborough County, and about 25,000 in the City of
10:45:28 Tampa specifically.
10:45:31 So it's a big population.
10:45:33 It's a growing number of people, too.
10:45:37 I will give you some other information about the

10:45:38 number of courts in the city.
10:45:40 There's 76 tennis courts at 12 locations in the City
10:45:43 of Tampa.
10:45:44 Some of them are great.
10:45:45 Some of them terrific.
10:45:46 The ones at Davis Island and the Calgut courts are in
10:45:56 great shape, some of them aren't so good.
10:45:58 (Bell sounds).
10:45:59 Sorry.
10:46:00 If HCC does close completely or everyone partly it's
10:46:04 going to have a bad impact on tennis participation
10:46:08 locally.
10:46:10 The economic impact is going to be pretty significant,
10:46:13 too.
10:46:14 I have included all the activity that goes on at HCC
10:46:18 as far as bringing out of town participants.
10:46:22 And the last thing I want to say really is that the
10:46:24 Hillsborough County tennis association, we are in the
10:46:28 process of becoming a foundation, becoming a 501(c)3.
10:46:32 What we would like to do maybe a few months from now
10:46:35 is participate with the City of Tampa in trying to
10:46:38 willed a new tennis facility to replace HCC, to bring

10:46:42 private money, to partner with the city, because we
10:46:45 recognize completely that there is a budget crunch
10:46:48 going on and tough times.
10:46:50 So what we want to do is find partners, find sponsors,
10:46:53 and help Tampa build a large tennis complex over the
10:46:58 next year or two.
10:47:00 And we really appreciate you giving us the time today
10:47:02 to address this.
10:47:03 I have been talking with Ms. Palus in the last few
10:47:07 days.
10:47:08 We are going to have a couple meetings and tray to
10:47:10 begin moving forward on that.
10:47:12 If there's any way we can help the city move forward
10:47:14 and create more tennis courts, we will look forward to
10:47:17 working with you.
10:47:19 Thanks very much.
10:47:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:47:22 Mr. Dingfelder?
10:47:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Gary, for that update,
10:47:25 and I'm glad you guys have organized.
10:47:28 Have you had a chance -- since we are the tenant over
10:47:31 there at HCC, and we are kind of in a powerless

10:47:35 position, have you had a chance to meet with the
10:47:37 landlord, Ms. Stevenson, on the board, on the closing?
10:47:43 >>> There is a group -- one of our members is part of
10:47:47 the group meeting with HCC that's working towards
10:47:50 seeing how HCC can keep at least some courts open.
10:47:55 That's in process.
10:47:56 I believe that the plan is at this point to move
10:47:59 forward until March, and then HCC plans to put an RFP
10:48:04 out, to find somebody to run whatever they can keep
10:48:07 open of these courts.
10:48:10 I don't know how that's going to work.
10:48:12 That still remains to be determined.
10:48:15 >>GWEN MILLER: As a show of support it appears to me,
10:48:20 in our understanding HCC has long-term plans and roads
10:48:23 that they might want to build through the tennis
10:48:25 court.
10:48:26 Maybe they don't need to do it so fast.
10:48:28 So what I am going to do is make a motion requesting
10:48:32 that Marty and the chair to draft a letter for the
10:48:37 chair's signature to Ms. Stevenson and her board at
10:48:40 HCC to encourage them.
10:48:43 We are good until March but to encourage them to

10:48:46 extend keeping as many courts open as possible for at
10:48:50 long as possible.
10:48:50 I think it's rather innocuous motion but at least let
10:48:55 them know we want to work with them and keep the
10:48:58 tennis courts open.
10:48:59 I think it's great that ten sis a growing sport,
10:49:02 eights great support sport, it costs a couple of Bucs
10:49:05 for a couple of tennis balls, and great exercise, and
10:49:08 it's wonderful.
10:49:09 It's becoming more of a minority sport as well.
10:49:12 So that would be my motion, a friendly motion.
10:49:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
10:49:21 (Motion carried)
10:49:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I guess my question would be if you
10:49:34 look at this report, Copeland park, Rowlette Park,
10:49:39 Riverfront Park, Highland -- then it doesn't say about
10:49:43 Port Tampa.
10:49:44 I guess my concern is at this point, when could these
10:49:49 tennis courts be improved?
10:49:52 You say CIT funds.
10:49:54 But some of these are in poor condition.
10:49:56 Very poor condition.

10:49:59 >>KAREN PALUS: The ones that are in poor condition, we
10:50:03 continue to work through those.
10:50:04 But I can give council if you would like a listing for
10:50:08 their resurfacing.
10:50:13 >> I move then that you report back in, what, two
10:50:17 weeks?
10:50:18 >>GWEN MILLER: How long will it take, Ms. Palus?
10:50:22 >>> Two weeks is fine.
10:50:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
10:50:24 (Motion carried)
10:50:27 >>CHAIRMAN: We go to item 14.
10:50:29 Mr. Daignault.
10:50:34 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: administrator, public works and
10:50:37 utility services.
10:50:38 I would like to address item number 14 regarding
10:50:40 flooding in Ybor.
10:50:42 I think that council is aware that we do have a
10:50:45 five-year plan.
10:50:47 We have been working on it for a number of years now.
10:50:49 A couple of years now.
10:50:50 And each year, we add the next year out of the
10:50:52 five-year plan.

10:50:53 So we are trying to be systematic as we approach our
10:50:56 stormwater problems.
10:50:59 In the Ybor area -- and let me put this on the Elmo.
10:51:13 Oh we like to address the most significant problems
10:51:15 first.
10:51:16 We are looking first where we had building or resident
10:51:19 flooding and then street flooding.
10:51:21 And we also have to consider the cost and the benefit
10:51:25 of each one of our projects as we do that.
10:51:28 In the Ybor area, you can see these circles.
10:51:31 And you will notice, these two here are cross-hatched.
10:51:36 And then we have four others that are not
10:51:38 cross-hatched.
10:51:39 The cross hatched ones are where we have had
10:51:42 projects -- we know solved the problems.
10:51:46 The one on 15th street was a significant problem.
10:51:49 Whenever we do these stormwater projects, as you know,
10:51:52 they are very deep.
10:51:53 Many of them, they have a significant impact in the
10:51:56 area.
10:51:58 So on 15th street, we have just finished up the
10:52:02 project, the drought actually was beneficial to us

10:52:05 because it allowed to us finish that construction.
10:52:08 But when we had the recent rains, I have actually been
10:52:12 contacted by the folks in that area to say that it has
10:52:16 been successful.
10:52:16 It has helped our situation.
10:52:18 So we are real pleased with that.
10:52:20 We do have other areas, as you see there, that we know
10:52:24 are known flooding areas, we'll continue to monitor
10:52:27 them.
10:52:28 Some of them, the fix is very, very, very expensive,
10:52:32 and so we need to again weigh that cost versus the
10:52:35 benefit.
10:52:36 There is one particular area down here by this circle.
10:52:41 You can see there's this orange line that comes down
10:52:43 all the way to McKay Bay, and that's our drainage
10:52:47 box there.
10:52:51 >> Can you zoom out a little bit?
10:52:53 We can't see the edges.
10:52:57 I want to see the key.
10:53:09 >>> Does that work?
10:53:10 When FDOT was doing the work on I-4, allowed, that
10:53:23 drainage box, we reached agreement with them verbally

10:53:26 on how we are going to address that, how we are going
10:53:28 to get that out of there.
10:53:34 We'll be putting that into a written agreement and
10:53:36 getting your approval to do that.
10:53:39 So that's one of the reasons that we have had some
10:53:41 flooding.
10:53:42 It is not the only reason.
10:53:44 There are lots of reasons that contribute to the
10:53:45 flooding in those various areas.
10:53:48 But again I just want to point that specific one out
10:53:51 to you.
10:53:52 Again, we'll continue to look at these and see how
10:53:55 they rank versus other projects throughout the city.
10:53:58 And again we are really pleased with the success of
10:54:00 the two projects that we have had in Ybor recently.
10:54:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Daignault.
10:54:07 As you know -- and I know you get many calls from Mr.
10:54:12 Depurie who has a business over there on 7th
10:54:16 Avenue.
10:54:16 Is that the circle you are talking about, the 2700
10:54:19 block?
10:54:20 >>> I think in this area, yes.

10:54:23 >> So that's the one that I think I have seen for the
10:54:24 last couple of years that we are pointing our fingers,
10:54:36 and they have exacerbated Mr. Depurie issues?
10:54:41 >>> I think there are some claim issues so I don't
10:54:43 want to get into too much detail but when you say the
10:54:45 last couple of years, just this last year that we have
10:54:48 been aware of the material in the box culvert from
10:54:52 that project, and have dealt with FDOT on it.
10:54:57 >> I wouldn't necessarily argue with you about the
10:54:59 time but I remember a couple years ago the same
10:55:01 discussion.
10:55:02 But, anyway, what is the tentative agreement with the
10:55:04 D.O.T., just generally?
10:55:06 Are we sharing the expense of cleaning up those
10:55:08 culverts?
10:55:09 >>> Correct.
10:55:10 And it is primarily the box but, yes.
10:55:15 >> When do we expect that to be done?
10:55:17 >> I think it's about a 3-month process.
10:55:19 >> So within the next year or so?
10:55:22 >> I think possibly before the end of this calendar
10:55:25 year.

10:55:28 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to know if you found a
10:55:33 backhoe in the box culvert.
10:55:35 >>> We found a backhoe in the box culvert?
10:55:38 >> The things that we heard was they actually found a
10:55:42 backhoe when they went into the culvert, that there
10:55:45 was so much construction material in there.
10:55:50 >>> I think that may have been somebody's
10:55:52 exaggeration, but it takes a very small piece of
10:55:54 equipment to get in there and work on it.
10:55:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Mr. Daignault.
10:55:58 Item number 13.
10:56:09 Number 15.
10:56:11 >> Move to continue.
10:56:12 >>THOMAS SCOTT: At any point are we going to have the
10:56:15 sheriff address this issue?
10:56:19 We are raising an issue.
10:56:22 But my understanding, the sheriff went out and did
10:56:25 this.
10:56:27 Because I got a call.
10:56:28 I got a call on -- at least my office got a call from
10:56:32 county commission Charles saying that this is the
10:56:37 issue.

10:56:38 So I would hope that we contact the sheriff's office
10:56:43 and see what he has to say.
10:56:46 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
10:56:48 We have immediately when this came up, we contacted
10:56:50 the sheriff's office as well as the Hillsborough
10:56:52 County, it's actually their property and we have been
10:56:56 working with them and having meetings with them and
10:56:58 this continuance is to allow them to submit additional
10:57:00 information on 20th street.
10:57:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All right.
10:57:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Shelby, 17.
10:57:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Madam Chair, if I may.
10:57:14 >>GWEN MILLER: We need a second.
10:57:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I second.
10:57:18 (Motion carried).
10:57:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
10:57:22 Mr. Miranda.
10:57:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Are you on 17 now?
10:57:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
10:57:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I don't know if Mr. Shelby is
10:57:28 prepared to make a statement, folks are asking for a
10:57:31 continuation and if I can ask council to continue this

10:57:33 to December 6th, and 120 days basically, and you
10:57:37 can -- they want really to come back earlier.
10:57:40 They have a lot of other issues that they are looking
10:57:42 at.
10:57:43 And we are not going to forget this.
10:57:44 But I think your December 6th, the legal
10:57:47 department, the right to spend a little bit more time
10:57:50 in doing it properly.
10:57:51 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:57:52 (Motion carried)
10:57:56 Item number 18, need to receive and file the written
10:58:00 report.
10:58:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So moved.
10:58:02 >> Second.
10:58:02 (Motion carried).
10:58:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 19.
10:58:08 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
10:58:10 What I have provided you with is an ordinance amending
10:58:12 chapter 3, section 329.1.
10:58:17 This is a fairly minor change, and it's not the
10:58:21 overhaul that we have been promising you, which is
10:58:24 going as part of the chapter 27 July cycle.

10:58:27 And that will be come to you.
10:58:29 But as we were reviewing our revocation process, we
10:58:34 noticed that there was a provision in the code, and
10:58:38 what we would like to do is you have that provision
10:58:41 removed so that there is no argument.
10:58:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll second the motion.
10:58:50 What I was reading the strike-through, on the chapter
10:58:53 3 amendment as proposed, I didn't see the duplicated
10:59:00 provision.
10:59:00 That must be somewhere else.
10:59:01 >>REBECCA KERT: Yes, that's completely another
10:59:04 section.
10:59:05 This only applies to limited area downtown, Ybor City
10:59:07 and Channelside.
10:59:08 And they had a different provision or certain
10:59:12 conditions put in there.
10:59:13 However, it's all covered in another section, which we
10:59:15 have updated in certain situations.
10:59:19 This section was never updated to reflect that.
10:59:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It was sort of left behind?
10:59:25 >>REBECCA KERT: Yes.
10:59:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll second.

10:59:26 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
10:59:28 Mr. Shelby?
10:59:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I believe it's -- it not set
10:59:32 for first reading.
10:59:33 It's been presented for first reading.
10:59:35 If you wish, you can read it today and have it set for
10:59:37 public hearing.
10:59:39 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Move an ordinance of the City of Tampa
10:59:44 amending the City of Tampa code ordinance chapter 3
10:59:46 alcoholic beverages, section 3 -- 3, regarding
10:59:54 enforcement, providing for severability, providing for
10:59:58 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
11:00:01 effective date.
11:00:03 >> We have a motion and second.
11:00:04 (Motion carried)
11:00:06 Mr. Shelby?
11:00:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, we will take up item 20 at
11:00:10 the end of the meeting, if that's council's desire,
11:00:13 with item 6.
11:00:14 >>GWEN MILLER: 6 and 20.
11:00:15 Okay.
11:00:16 We are going to move to see if there's anyone in the

11:00:18 public that would like reconsideration of a
11:00:21 legislative matter.
11:00:22 Anyone want reconsideration of a legislative matter?
11:00:25 We now go to our audience portion.
11:00:27 Anyone in the public that wants to speak on any item
11:00:29 on the agenda not set for a public hearing.
11:00:38 >>> Chip Thomas.
11:00:39 I live at 1219 east tenor Avenue.
11:00:45 I don't know fountain was number 6 and 20.
11:00:49 The one that you that you were going to address.
11:00:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Counsel rules?
11:00:55 20.
11:00:57 >>> To be specific, there was a suggestion to make
11:00:59 room for 10 or 15 minutes of general public comment at
11:01:03 the beginning of meetings, enough time to accommodate
11:01:08 three or five speakers.
11:01:10 The reason to do this was to increase your
11:01:14 accessibility to the public, to increase public
11:01:18 participation and city government, to open the doors
11:01:23 of communication between you and the citizens.
11:01:26 The way it stands right now, to address you at the end
11:01:31 of the meeting, it's a real deterrent and I don't

11:01:35 think many people are able or willing to get downtown
11:01:39 and wait till the end of the meeting, since that can
11:01:42 be ninth between 11:15 and 2:30.
11:01:47 And I have got to believe there are people out there.
11:01:50 I know there's a lot of apathy when it comes to city
11:01:53 government.
11:01:53 But I think there are people out there that want to
11:01:57 participate, that have suggestions or beneficial
11:02:00 input.
11:02:01 But they can't or won't do what it takes to be here at
11:02:06 the meeting and if you make time at the beginning, you
11:02:08 might find that you're the beneficiary of some
11:02:12 actually helpful input or suggestions.
11:02:17 In the recent last campaign, a number of you talked
11:02:20 about what an honor it would be or privilege to serve
11:02:25 the people.
11:02:27 So I ask you, how can you best serve your constituents
11:02:31 if you are not hearing from them?
11:02:36 And by requiring people to come at the end of meeting,
11:02:38 I don't think you are hearing from many of them,
11:02:40 because it's just too much of a hurdle, too much of a
11:02:45 deterrent to come then.

11:02:46 So make some time at the beginning of the meeting.
11:02:48 And I think you will hear some good stuff.
11:02:50 Thanks for your time.
11:02:51 >>GWEN MILLER: You will be able to speak at the
11:02:54 beginning of the meeting.
11:02:55 We are not putting it at the end.
11:02:56 It's going to stay as it is on the agenda.
11:02:58 It's not moving.
11:02:59 You will speak in the morning, not at the end of the
11:03:01 meeting.
11:03:03 >>> Okay, I'm not talking about this section.
11:03:05 I mean general public comment when you want to address
11:03:07 something that's not an agenda item.
11:03:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
11:03:13 We are going to discuss that and find out what we are
11:03:15 going to do.
11:03:15 Thank you.
11:03:16 Next.
11:03:22 >>> Tanya, north Fremont.
11:03:25 I have four children and they are all part of the camp
11:03:28 program, or going to be part of the camp program.
11:03:31 And I want to say that I'm very happy to hear that we

11:03:35 passed the $45 a week for the camp to keep it going.
11:03:41 I just hope that they have already sent the letters
11:03:43 out to the parents saying that they are not going to
11:03:45 have a camp, to get that 25-person minimum in the
11:03:50 different schools might be a problem, because since
11:03:55 those went out parents are struggling to find other
11:03:59 programs for their children.
11:04:01 And I'm hoping that -- I think some of the other areas
11:04:06 it might be harder than Kate Jackson.
11:04:08 And I know the budget is coming up.
11:04:11 If there's any way we could look at the budget, and
11:04:15 give some money to this program, that is very
11:04:18 important to our Tampa children.
11:04:21 I think it would help keep it going, even through the
11:04:26 hard time this year.
11:04:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let me make a suggestion.
11:04:34 Thanks for coming down and participating.
11:04:38 I'm going to guess that the list of former
11:04:42 participants is public record.
11:04:43 So if you go to Ms. Palus' office and ask them for a
11:04:49 copy of the list then you might be able to jump in and
11:04:51 help, you know, in a friendly way to help our

11:04:54 department, let people know, as quick as possible.
11:05:00 >> You mean like get people down here to let you
11:05:01 know --
11:05:02 >> Not let us know but let them know what we have done
11:05:06 and what the new price is and when the program can
11:05:08 start and have them sign up.
11:05:10 And as a parent you can call them and encourage them
11:05:13 to do that.
11:05:14 >> Right.
11:05:15 Actually, we have got a couple more parents here, we
11:05:19 are all jumping on board with that.
11:05:20 I just wanted you to know of our support, and if there
11:05:24 is anyway we can get money in the budget next year,
11:05:28 something to keep this program going, that would be
11:05:30 great.
11:05:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:05:38 >>> Hi.
11:05:39 I'm a parent of one of the Kate Jackson students.
11:05:42 Actually two.
11:05:44 Been going for three years but I'm also the finance
11:05:46 officer, for the Kate Jackson program.
11:05:51 One of the things that I am looking for clarification

11:05:54 for, and Ms. Pal does not give us that, is that if the
11:06:02 camp does not meet the 25 minimum requirements, none
11:06:05 exists.
11:06:11 If Kate Jackson does meet the program and the other
11:06:17 doesn't --
11:06:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: She didn't have an answer for that?
11:06:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Would have to reevaluate that.
11:06:24 >>> And that's a concern to us because right now we
11:06:26 are waiting for an answer on this.
11:06:29 And then if she does not get the hundred enrollment in
11:06:35 the four programs and she cancels the program, now we
11:06:38 are three weeks later into not knowing what we are
11:06:40 doing.
11:06:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I guess I was under the notion that
11:06:43 each program was rather independent and 25 here, 25
11:06:47 there.
11:06:48 >>> That was my question but not getting that specific
11:06:50 answer.
11:06:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
11:06:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder will call Mrs. Pal to us
11:06:55 get back with you.
11:06:56 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to ask right now, the

11:06:59 way it's working, before increasing the fees or
11:07:02 eliminating it, it was per program, right?
11:07:09 >>> I associate it with the Kate Jackson program only.
11:07:11 My understanding was through the City of Tampa Parks
11:07:13 and Recreation Department, the camp program is based
11:07:15 on these four sites.
11:07:17 But each one operated as an individual site, with
11:07:22 staff in place there, and then converged into the
11:07:25 supervisor.
11:07:28 >>MARY MULHERN: I would think that they are not going
11:07:30 to change how they do that.
11:07:33 >>: But then having that reassurance, leaving today
11:07:38 knowing that my child can start camp in a week or is
11:07:40 it delayed two weeks or three weeks waiting on the
11:07:43 people, or at least here today and scramble because I
11:07:46 did not get official notification of this being closed
11:07:49 until a week and a half ago.
11:07:53 Which was long after it was proposed to be cut.
11:07:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder will get in touch with
11:08:00 her and let now what's going on.
11:08:03 >>> Thank you.
11:08:06 >>> Good morning.

11:08:07 My name is Sherri Wango.
11:08:11 I have a three-year-old who also attends the camp
11:08:13 program at friendship park.
11:08:16 Just like these other mothers here, just to shift the
11:08:20 portion of the program, I do have again have a
11:08:22 three-year-old who attended the program last year.
11:08:24 And I just wanted to say how to me being a mom, I was
11:08:29 a former teacher, but I told my children that -- the
11:08:35 program was very appealing as a middle-class income
11:08:38 family, to signed find a program in the area close to
11:08:41 home where my -- also have that specialization.
11:08:51 I appreciate the council reconsidering the matter.
11:08:53 My concern also is what the other lady said as well,
11:08:59 fa if there aren't enough to meet the numbers, if Kate
11:09:03 Jackson does would their program be reinstated and
11:09:06 ours not, is it possible that those children at the
11:09:08 other sites, Port Tampa or friendship, would be
11:09:11 able -- would we be able to send our children to their
11:09:14 camp?
11:09:14 I'm here just as a mother for the whole program, not
11:09:18 just for friendship but for other families like myself
11:09:22 who like this program.

11:09:23 I thank you for your time.
11:09:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Palus, can you answer that
11:09:28 question?
11:09:31 She was just asking a question.
11:09:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Did you hear the question?
11:09:36 You were outside.
11:09:37 >>> I was actually watching over in the other
11:09:39 building.
11:09:39 Yes, we do have an answer for that question.
11:09:41 What was mentioned to me in the hall when I was trying
11:09:43 to share with them is we did make a commitment to 25
11:09:46 minimum per program to be able to bring all four
11:09:49 programs back, and that was based on that $45 amount
11:09:55 fee to be able to bring those individuals and those
11:09:58 positions back along with the -- however if one of
11:10:02 those makes that program minimum and one does not we
11:10:06 would still be able to operate that program.
11:10:08 We just wouldn't be able to hire back all the other
11:10:10 folks in that other facility that would not make that
11:10:12 minimum.
11:10:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So each program can operate
11:10:17 independently as long as each one gets 25.

11:10:22 >>> Now what they asked me in the hallway and I was
11:10:24 trying to clarify I would have to evaluate at that
11:10:26 time, is some of the programs have more than 25
11:10:32 capacity so they can go up, or if one has, let's say,
11:10:35 Kate Jackson has 30 children, and friendship only had
11:10:38 20, then I would have to evaluate what we could do in
11:10:41 that regard.
11:10:43 But that's the part I would need to evaluate.
11:10:46 But as far as the program standing on its own and
11:10:48 meeting that minimum as required based on the overall
11:10:51 budget, that program would then stand alone, which may
11:10:54 reduce the number of programs or it may keep those
11:10:56 programs at four where we are currently at.
11:11:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I attended the friendship program
11:11:02 several years ago.
11:11:03 Actually it's true over on Bay to Bay.
11:11:05 My mother sent me there when I was a little kid.
11:11:08 >>GWEN MILLER: A few years ago?
11:11:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just a few years ago.
11:11:11 So everybody can judge the program based on me and see
11:11:16 how it comes out.
11:11:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I guess my question would be to the

11:11:25 parents.
11:11:25 And this is different from this standpoint.
11:11:28 And that is, the program was being cut because of the
11:11:32 budget constraints.
11:11:34 Apparently, you know, again, are you all homeowners?
11:11:39 If you are, did you realize a tax savings?
11:11:42 How much was that savings?
11:11:43 And since now you have got to pay for this, does the
11:11:48 cost of that cost more now that you have to pay
11:11:52 additional, what, $25 a week versus what your tax
11:11:54 savings was?
11:11:55 That's what I'm looking at.
11:11:58 Do you understand the question?
11:12:02 >>> Yes.
11:12:05 We are jumping 150% in one year.
11:12:08 This program does not have a fee increase other than
11:12:13 15 to $18 in the past 15 years.
11:12:15 Now you are asking this current family of participants
11:12:19 to increase that 150%.
11:12:22 It is a huge jump.
11:12:23 And is it going to affect other things in the quality
11:12:26 of life?

11:12:27 Yes.
11:12:28 I mean, we are more than doubling the price of this.
11:12:31 Is it still affordable to other alternatives?
11:12:33 Yes.
11:12:36 Are we pricing yourself that you are not going to be
11:12:39 able to support the people that this program is
11:12:42 designed for in the first place?
11:12:43 That's the question.
11:12:47 You are eventually going to push out single parents,
11:12:52 lower income, moms in need of place for their
11:12:58 children.
11:12:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And that's my point.
11:13:00 Own within hand we are cutting taxes, you know, and we
11:13:03 are -- at least for me, I saved $125.
11:13:06 If I have a child put in the program, then you are
11:13:08 saying that my cost is over 160%.
11:13:14 >>> I save $72 on my homestead for the year.
11:13:20 >> When you come back -- you understand?
11:13:22 But that's not the issue now.
11:13:26 But makes a valid point about these savings everybody
11:13:29 is talking about.
11:13:30 >>> Yes.

11:13:31 It's not happening for this program.
11:13:32 But we are willing to pay for this program and pay
11:13:35 this increase, because we need it.
11:13:37 We value it.
11:13:38 We support it.
11:13:39 And the community supports itself.
11:13:40 And this is 52-year plus tradition to this program.
11:13:44 >> But on the other hand you would rather keep the $72
11:13:50 and not realize 150% increase.
11:13:55 >>> 72-plus if you let me keep the program.
11:13:58 It's my child's social development.
11:14:03 My time away from him.
11:14:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Karen.
11:14:15 Thank you, everybody.
11:14:18 >>MOSES KNOTT, JR.: I reside at 2902 East Ellicott
11:14:30 Street three nights a week.
11:14:32 I thank God for his grace and mercy and thanking him
11:14:35 for saving me to be standing here this morning.
11:14:39 I went through a lot since the last time I was here.
11:14:41 Speaking of prayer, Reverend Scott, you know, the man
11:14:45 you brought here to pray this morning, you notice I
11:14:49 always say thank you for that.

11:14:51 But they beg God.
11:14:57 God, give me this, God, give me that.
11:15:00 They never thank for what God already has done.
11:15:03 Very important.
11:15:04 God is like their mommy and daddy.
11:15:06 If you thank them for doing this and doing that they
11:15:08 appreciate it more but you run to your mom and dad
11:15:11 begging give me this, give me that, arguing with mommy
11:15:14 and daddy.
11:15:16 Number two, the retirement this morning.
11:15:19 Mr. Charlie Miranda, you know, you my main man.
11:15:27 You talked about the horse racing thing and it hit me
11:15:29 in my heart this morning, because I always come to
11:15:32 this podium several times talking about these people
11:15:35 out here gambling.
11:15:36 You told her, you love to go see the horses, but take
11:15:40 you 10 or 15 or $20 with you and forget about it.
11:15:45 But you got peoples in this city, go out there, and
11:15:59 all the money, child support money, old folks, folks
11:16:05 lost everything.
11:16:06 I been waiting for -- I love you all politicians.
11:16:10 If I find one doing something in my favor, I'm with

11:16:14 him.
11:16:14 So I wish you keep on talking about that.
11:16:18 And I wish somebody would do a story about it.
11:16:23 This is a serious issue in this town.
11:16:26 Several young people have told me when their mama get
11:16:29 a Social Security check every morning and say they
11:16:31 have to spend four or five days, scratch with one
11:16:39 hand.
11:16:40 And you never -- get a free ticket maybe win four or
11:16:45 five dollars.
11:16:45 But I'm totally against it but argue being this park
11:16:50 here thing.
11:16:51 I agree with everything those ladies said awhile ago.
11:16:53 In my neighborhood, all the poor people, that's where
11:16:59 they go but that's a much-needed program and Luke I
11:17:02 said, support anything they said about it.
11:17:05 But the man this morning talked about the flood this
11:17:07 morning.
11:17:09 Talked on the board this morning about the flood, you
11:17:11 know.
11:17:11 And people down in South Tampa, over in my part of
11:17:16 town, 30th street.

11:17:21 This year the thing flooded, south Hillsborough, like
11:17:26 a boat that float down there.
11:17:30 It's flooded three times this year.
11:17:33 The water got to be four feet deep.
11:17:37 Hillsborough, all the -- you know, always said.
11:17:45 In our part of town, Ms. Miller's part of town, we
11:17:49 never have nothing, no sidewalks, and forget about a
11:17:57 bicycle trail.
11:18:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I just wanted to clarify.
11:18:02 Mr. Knott, the report we asked for Mr. Daignault today
11:18:05 was specifically about Ybor.
11:18:07 And the map he put up was Ybor City.
11:18:10 They have got two projects and maybe a few more coming
11:18:13 in Ybor.
11:18:13 I don't know if we consider Ybor our part of town,
11:18:17 your part of town.
11:18:18 We all love Ybor.
11:18:19 So, anyway, that's what that was about.
11:18:21 It wasn't South Tampa.
11:18:23 >>> I just see on the map --
11:18:25 >> You weren't on the map and neither was South Tampa.
11:18:27 >>GWEN MILLER: We are going to have Mr. Daignault come

11:18:29 up.
11:18:30 Can you check out his area for the flooding?
11:18:34 Put Mr. Knott on the map.
11:18:37 Would anyone else like to speak?
11:18:41 >>> Pete Johnson.
11:18:42 I just came to the chambers and I was impressed. The
11:18:49 man is doing what I would feel is a good job.
11:18:51 My only question is, when are we going to hold the
11:18:56 legal department responsible for zoning?
11:19:02 As you know --
11:19:06 >>GWEN MILLER: It's not on the agenda today.
11:19:11 >>> Excuse me, that's later.
11:19:13 Excuse me.
11:19:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you want to speak, sir?
11:19:19 >>> David Clisset.
11:19:22 I want to ask a question or make a comment about the
11:19:24 issue of providing larger trees in our new
11:19:27 developments.
11:19:28 And I wanted -- I drew this extremely rough graphic.
11:19:34 I don't know if there's a way for you to look at that.
11:19:37 But the smaller trees, this actually shows a 2-inch
11:19:42 tree.

11:19:42 The square inches, a cross section of the chunk of the
11:19:47 2-inch tree only gives you three square inches of the
11:19:50 chunk of the tree.
11:19:51 You go to a four-inch tree and you cut through that
11:19:54 section you get almost 12, almost 4 times as much of
11:19:58 the trunk area as do you in a 2-inch tree.
11:20:01 I would suggest that you might be able to encourage
11:20:03 people to plant larger trees in developments if you
11:20:07 would give us some additional credit for providing
11:20:09 larger trees.
11:20:10 And rather than just giving us, you know, four-inch
11:20:14 replacement with two-inch trees, it is more
11:20:17 difficulty, they take much longer to grow, they are
11:20:19 less available in the marketplace.
11:20:20 And there's a reason for that, because of all that.
11:20:27 And the beauty of providing landscape in developments
11:20:30 actually is significant.
11:20:31 So it would be very helpful, I believe, to the
11:20:34 development community and reasonable to investigate
11:20:35 the possibility of providing a progressive credit
11:20:39 chart for the trees rather than just inch for inch
11:20:44 replacement.

11:20:45 Thank you.
11:20:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else like to speak?
11:20:49 We go to our committee reports.
11:20:51 Public safety.
11:20:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I would like to move item 21 through
11:20:54 24.
11:20:56 >> Second.
11:20:57 (Motion carried).
11:20:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Parks, recreation.
11:21:05 Mr. Dingfelder, vice chair.
11:21:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move 22 through 24.
11:21:10 >> Second.
11:21:10 (Motion carried).
11:21:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Public works, Mr. Charlie Miranda.
11:21:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move items 25 through 30.
11:21:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
11:21:17 (Motion carried).
11:21:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Finance Committee, Mr. John Dingfelder.
11:21:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll move items 31 through 36.
11:21:26 >> Second.
11:21:26 (Motion carried).
11:21:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Building and zoning, Mr. Joseph

11:21:32 Caetano.
11:21:33 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Move items 37 and we have had
11:21:40 moved 474 to the CRA meeting.
11:21:42 >> Motion and second.
11:21:42 (Motion carried)
11:21:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Transportation, Mary Mulhern.
11:21:50 >>MARY MULHERN: I move item number 57 through 60.
11:21:54 >> Second.
11:21:54 (Motion carried).
11:21:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
11:22:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll move to set the public
11:22:02 hearings, item 61 through 78.
11:22:06 >> We have a motion and second.
11:22:07 (Motion carried).
11:22:08 >> Anyone in the public to speak on 79 through 84,
11:22:27 please stand and raise your right hand.
11:22:50 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I don't believe there's any written
11:22:52 communications.
11:22:54 Ladies and gentlemen, for the purposes of the record
11:22:55 when you state your name, please reaffirm that you
11:22:57 have been sworn.
11:22:58 Thank you.

11:22:59 >> Is there anyone in the public that wants to speak
11:23:01 on item 79?
11:23:02 >> Move to close.
11:23:03 >> Second.
11:23:03 (Motion carried).
11:23:04 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: An ordinance being presented for
11:23:15 second reading, authorizing the installation and
11:23:17 maintenance of encroachment, ten awnings and two
11:23:21 canopies, by Novare group over portions of the public
11:23:24 right-of-way known as east Cass street, north Tampa,
11:23:29 east Polk street, North Franklin Street more
11:23:34 particularly described herein subject to certain
11:23:35 terms, covenants, conditions and agreements as more
11:23:37 particularly described herein providing an effective
11:23:39 date.
11:23:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
11:23:48 Vote and record.
11:23:50 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with Saul-Sena
11:23:57 being absent at vote.
11:23:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
11:24:01 wants to speak on item number 80?
11:24:03 >>JILL FINNEY: Land Development Coordination.

11:24:14 I have been sworn.
11:24:14 I'm just here to sort of -- to certify that the
11:24:18 revised site plans everybody received, zoning
11:24:20 administrator certified them and they have been filed
11:24:22 with the clerk.
11:24:23 Thank you.
11:24:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Need to close.
11:24:26 >> Motion to close.
11:24:27 >> Second.
11:24:27 (Motion carried).
11:24:28 >>MARY MULHERN: 0: I move an ordinance on second
11:24:34 reading, an ordinance approving a special use permit
11:24:36 S-2 approving a family daycare, large facility in an
11:24:40 RS-50 residential single family zoning district in the
11:24:43 general vicinity of 3507 east 38th Avenue in the
11:24:46 city of Tampa, Florida and as more particularly
11:24:49 described in section 1 hereof allowing for a reduction
11:24:52 in the number of required parking spaces from two to
11:24:55 zero, a waiver to allow access to a local street,
11:24:59 providing an effective date.
11:24:59 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
11:25:01 Vote and record.

11:25:13 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with Saul-Sena
11:25:15 being absent at vote.
11:25:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
11:25:18 wants to speak on item 81?
11:25:20 >> Move to close.
11:25:20 >> Second.
11:25:20 (Motion carried).
11:25:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I would like to move the following
11:25:27 ordinance on second reading, an ordinance making
11:25:29 lawful the conditional sale of beverages containing
11:25:32 alcohol of more than 1% by weight and not more than
11:25:34 14% by weight and wines regardless of alcoholic
11:25:37 content, beer and wine, 2(APS), in sealed containers
11:25:40 for consumption off premises only at or from that
11:25:44 certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 8210
11:25:50 parkedge drive, Tampa, Florida as more particularly
11:25:53 described in section 2 hereof waiving certain
11:25:55 restrictions as to distance based upon certain
11:25:57 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
11:26:00 conflict, providing an effective date.
11:26:01 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
11:26:03 Vote and record.

11:26:05 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with Saul-Sena
11:26:15 being absent at vote.
11:26:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
11:26:17 wants to speak on item 82?
11:26:20 >> Move to close.
11:26:21 >> Second.
11:26:21 (Motion carried).
11:26:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move the following ordinance upon
11:26:28 second reading, an ordinance rezoning property in the
11:26:31 general vicinity of 4209 tenth Avenue in the city of
11:26:34 Tampa, Florida and more particularly described in
11:26:35 section 1 from zoning district classifications CI
11:26:38 commercial intensive to PD planned development, open
11:26:41 storage, providing an effective date.
11:26:52 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
11:26:54 Vote and record.
11:27:06 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with Scott and
11:27:09 Saul-Sena being absent at vote.
11:27:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
11:27:13 wants to speak on item 83?
11:27:15 >> Move to close.
11:27:16 >> second.

11:27:16 (Motion carried).
11:27:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move to adopt the following
11:27:22 ordinance upon second reading, an ordinance rezoning
11:27:25 property in the general vicinity of 4606 west Fig
11:27:27 Street in the city of Tampa, Florida and more
11:27:30 particularly described in section 1 from zoning
11:27:31 district classifications RS-50 residential
11:27:34 single-family and RM-24 residential multifamily to PD,
11:27:38 planned development, residential single family
11:27:41 attached, single family semi-detached, providing an
11:27:45 effective date.
11:27:45 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second of the vote
11:27:47 and record.
11:27:59 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with Saul-Sena
11:28:01 being absent at vote.
11:28:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
11:28:05 wants to speak on item 84?
11:28:06 >>JILL FINNEY: Land Development Coordination.
11:28:19 I have been sworn.
11:28:19 The revise site plans have been received, certified by
11:28:22 the zoning administrator, and filed with the clerk.
11:28:25 Thank you.

11:28:28 >> Move to close.
11:28:29 >> Second.
11:28:29 (Motion carried).
11:28:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move to adopt the following
11:28:35 ordinance upon second reading, an ordinance rezoning
11:28:37 property in the general vicinity of 1015 West Spruce
11:28:39 Street in the city of Tampa, Florida and more
11:28:42 particularly described in section 1 from zoning
11:28:44 district classification RS-50 single-family
11:28:46 residential, PD, planned development, single family
11:28:50 detached residential, providing an effective date.
11:28:51 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
11:28:53 Vote and record.
11:29:05 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with Saul-Sena
11:29:07 absent at vote.
11:29:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Need to open number 85.
11:29:09 >> So moved.
11:29:10 >> Second.
11:29:10 (Motion carried)
11:29:14 Jan McLean, legal department, here to introduce number
11:29:17 85 which is a public hearing and adoption of the
11:29:20 annual non-ad valorem assessment roll for

11:29:23 non-ad valorem assessment and stormwater fee for
11:29:25 properties within the incorporated boundaries of the
11:29:27 city.
11:29:28 As of late yesterday, I checked with the clerk's
11:29:31 office, we have not received any letters of comment
11:29:33 regarding this assessment, the stormwater assessment
11:29:37 roll will be electronically transmitted to the tax
11:29:40 collector no later than the September 15th as
11:29:45 indicated in the resolution. The initial fee was
11:29:45 adopted in 2003.
11:29:46 I just wanted to point out it has been adopted in
11:29:48 every subsequent year thereafter.
11:29:50 This year's assessment is the same as last year's with
11:29:53 no increase in the rate.
11:29:55 The vote on this resolution must be taken during the
11:29:58 public hearing.
11:30:00 Thank you.
11:30:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Question by council members?
11:30:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If there's nobody here to speak on
11:30:07 the resolution.
11:30:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Anybody to speak on 85?
11:30:10 >> Move the resolution -- the resolution.

11:30:14 >> Second.
11:30:14 (Motion carried)
11:30:15 79 need to close the public hearing.
11:30:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So moved to close the public
11:30:18 hearing.
11:30:19 >> Second.
11:30:19 (Motion carried).
11:30:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Number 86 is a continued public
11:30:23 hearing.
11:30:30 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
11:30:31 We continued this last month so we would have the
11:30:33 opportunity to brief each counsel member individually
11:30:36 to go over any issues or questions and to walk you
11:30:37 through the calculations, and I believe we have done
11:30:40 that.
11:30:41 Really, we are hear for any questions, if you have any
11:30:43 at this time.
11:30:45 Just for a point of reference, this is 85 -- I'm
11:30:49 sorry, 86 and 87 on the agenda.
11:30:51 I believe one for the CBD periphery ordinance and one
11:30:54 for the Channel District amendment.
11:30:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Question by council members?

11:30:58 Is there anyone in the public that wants to speak on
11:31:00 item 86?
11:31:01 >> Move to close.
11:31:02 >> Second.
11:31:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to close.
11:31:04 (Motion carried).
11:31:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Do we have an ordinance?
11:31:14 Ms. Mulhern?
11:31:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Move an ordinance of the City of
11:31:24 Tampa, Florida, making revision to chapter 27 zoning
11:31:29 code and City of Tampa code of ordinances moving
11:31:31 section 27-329 making revisions and stating chapter
11:31:38 27-329, central business district, CBD, peripheral
11:31:43 bonuses, and calculation, bonus amenities, providing
11:31:47 for repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing
11:31:50 for severability, providing an effective date.
11:31:52 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
11:31:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The second was Charlie.
11:31:58 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor?
11:32:00 Opposed?
11:32:01 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern voting no.
11:32:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 87 is the continued public

11:32:08 hearing.
11:32:12 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
11:32:14 Same speech goes for this one.
11:32:16 We did have an opportunity to meet with each one of
11:32:18 you and we would ask for your approval.
11:32:20 Thank you.
11:32:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
11:32:22 wants to speak on item 87?
11:32:25 >> Move to close.
11:32:25 >> Second.
11:32:26 (Motion carried).
11:32:30 >> Move the ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida
11:32:32 making revisions of chapter 27 zoning code of the City
11:32:36 of Tampa code of ordinances, repealing article 27,
11:32:49 yeah, the Channel District, in its entirety and
11:32:52 creating article 27, the Channel District, right of
11:32:55 repeal of all ordinances, providing for severability,
11:32:59 providing an effective date.
11:33:00 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
11:33:02 (Motion carried).
11:33:06 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern voting no.
11:33:08 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to open number 88.

11:33:12 >> So moved.
11:33:13 >> Second.
11:33:13 (Motion carried)
11:33:21 Non-ad valorem.
11:33:22 Who is going to speak on that?
11:33:29 >>> Staff preservation.
11:33:30 I have not been sworn.
11:33:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We are 88.
11:33:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You're one ahead of us, Ron.
11:33:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Anybody here for 88?
11:33:53 >>> Richard Davis, 220 east Madison street.
11:33:57 We are here this morning on behalf of the Tampa
11:33:59 downtown partnership.
11:34:00 This is the annualized assessment for the special
11:34:04 services district.
11:34:05 And I believe, council members, this is the 14th
11:34:10 year to appear respectfully before you relating to the
11:34:12 special service district.
11:34:13 We would simply ask that you proceed with the
11:34:17 assessment program.
11:34:18 I believe the resolution that is in your backup needs
11:34:21 to be adopted today as part of this action.

11:34:27 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It has to be done during the public
11:34:29 hearing before you vote.
11:34:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
11:34:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I just wanted to thank you, you and
11:34:39 Mr. Davis for his volunteer work, you and your staff
11:34:41 for your great work with the downtown partnership.
11:34:44 I think you will do a fantastic job with a very small
11:34:48 amount of money that you accumulate in providing
11:34:50 enhanced services for the downtown and the periphery
11:34:52 area, and keep up the good work, and we hope we can
11:34:56 keep you doing it for a long time.
11:34:57 >> I think council and the administration and our
11:35:00 partnership have a very good partnership.
11:35:02 Thank you.
11:35:02 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
11:35:04 wants to speak on item number 88?
11:35:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
11:35:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Not close, move the resolution.
11:35:12 >> Second.
11:35:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
11:35:13 (Motion carried)
11:35:15 Now we close it.

11:35:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to close.
11:35:19 >> Second.
11:35:19 (Motion carried).
11:35:20 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to open 89.
11:35:25 >> So moved.
11:35:25 >> Second.
11:35:26 (Motion carried).
11:35:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Do you want to swear the witnesses on
11:35:30 89, 90, 91?
11:35:33 >>GWEN MILLER: Persons who want top speak on 89, 90
11:35:43 and 91, please stand and raise your right hand.
11:35:47 (Oath administered by Clerk)
11:35:51 >>> This first ad valorem is at 816 south Edison
11:35:57 Avenue.
11:36:00 Contributing structure within the historic district.
11:36:01 A little history on this building.
11:36:03 It was constructed in 1921.
11:36:06 It's a two and a half story colonial revival style
11:36:09 house and was built for Frank Adamo and he resided
11:36:14 there until 1926.
11:36:16 A little history again.
11:36:18 Mr. Adamo developed a new treatment for gangrene

11:36:22 during World War II and was named the medical director
11:36:25 for Centro hospital until 1932, First Avenue was
11:36:31 changed to respect him in his honor and it was named
11:36:34 Frank Adamo Avenue.
11:36:37 Some photos.
11:36:38 You see the front elevation for the property in
11:36:40 question.
11:36:42 Moving to the interior, to renovation.
11:36:48 This is a kitchen and how it looks.
11:36:54 This is after the renovation.
11:36:57 You can see some of the designing features retained,
11:37:03 the orientations of the windows themselves.
11:37:06 The cabinetry that was installed.
11:37:08 The last depiction is again the paneled cabinetry.
11:37:16 If you look in the background, the casings around the
11:37:20 door.
11:37:25 That Dar was retained.
11:37:26 Moving to a bathroom renovated probably in the '80s
11:37:31 and once again last year.
11:37:32 This is how it looks today.
11:37:34 They kept the period tile, the subway tile on the
11:37:38 walls, introduced period appropriate RAD pedestal,

11:37:44 kept the original tub there. Was an addition done in
11:37:45 the rear.
11:37:46 The owner was sensitive with the addition, started
11:37:49 doing a more contemporary addition for the bathroom.
11:37:54 This bathroom, the jetted tub, appropriate period
11:37:58 tile, has double sinks, pedestal sinks.
11:38:04 A couple more features for this house with the
11:38:08 flooring was refurbished and brought back to its
11:38:12 original luster.
11:38:14 Some of the original heating grates were kept.
11:38:22 And the reinstallation of the period, appropriate for
11:38:28 the light.
11:38:29 And that concludes the presentation for the first
11:38:31 ad valorem.
11:38:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Does anyone in the public want to speak
11:38:33 on 89?
11:38:36 Need to close.
11:38:37 >> Move to close.
11:38:38 >> Second.
11:38:38 (Motion carried)
11:38:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Caetano?
11:38:43 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Presented for first reading

11:38:45 consideration, an ordinance approving a historic
11:38:49 preservation tax exemption application relative to the
11:38:52 restoration, renovation or rehabilitation of certain
11:38:55 property owned by William Kent and Cynthia A. Ihrig
11:39:01 located at 816 south Edison Avenue, Tampa, Florida, in
11:39:06 the Hyde Park historic district based upon certain
11:39:08 findings, providing for notice to the property
11:39:11 appraiser of Hillsborough County, providing for
11:39:13 severability, providing for repeal of all ordinances
11:39:16 in conflict, providing an effective date.
11:39:19 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
11:39:20 (Motion carried)
11:39:23 Item number 90.
11:39:25 Need to open it.
11:39:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
11:39:27 >> Second.
11:39:27 (Motion carried).
11:39:34 >>> This structure is located at 2212 east third
11:39:37 Avenue, currently owned by Tomybor, LLC, in the
11:39:44 historic district.
11:39:45 This house was constructed in 1928. This elaborate
11:39:49 bungalow displays a fancy interior wall and larger

11:39:53 than most houses associated with the industry in the
11:39:56 community in Ybor City.
11:39:59 On the top, you see prior to rehabilitation in the
11:40:07 bottom. This house is very unique because it has a
11:40:10 porte-cochere on the east side, has elaborate brick
11:40:16 wall piers that are very elaborate and not very
11:40:18 characteristic of this style.
11:40:20 This is Cuban tile on the top which is very high ended
11:40:43 in the day.
11:40:43 The owner took the great pain and measure to replicate
11:40:47 that on the bottom.
11:40:48 He found a manufacturer that could match the details
11:40:51 on that.
11:40:51 And he did that for the rehabilitation.
11:40:55 Moving to the interior.
11:40:57 Some of the damage.
11:40:59 On the top, once again taking sensitive means to
11:41:07 restore the property to its original fabric.
11:41:10 This top photo here shows the interior condition of
11:41:15 the house prior to rehabilitation.
11:41:17 There was no plaster or any details on the walls or
11:41:21 the roof.

11:41:22 It was just the material around that completed it and
11:41:27 on the bottom after rehabilitation.
11:41:29 These are the walls.
11:41:36 This is the ceiling.
11:41:41 And the last photo for this ad valorem.
11:41:43 It had a character defining element inside, built-in
11:41:48 cabinetry here.
11:41:49 And then if you look here, the door has been removed.
11:41:52 You see the trim.
11:41:56 That was respected after rehabilitation.
11:42:00 You see a period appropriate door with the casing
11:42:02 here.
11:42:05 The cabinetry.
11:42:06 Before rehabilitation.
11:42:10 After rehabilitation.
11:42:11 The same location.
11:42:12 That concludes this presentation.
11:42:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Does anyone in the public want to speak
11:42:15 on item 90?
11:42:17 >> Move to close.
11:42:18 >> Second.
11:42:18 (Motion carried).

11:42:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
11:42:23 >>> Move an ordinance approving an historic
11:42:25 preservation property tax exemption application
11:42:28 relative to the restoration, renovation or
11:42:31 rehabilitation of certain property owned by Tomybor,
11:42:35 LLC located at 2212 east third Avenue, Tampa, Florida
11:42:39 in the Ybor City historic district based upon certain
11:42:42 findings, providing for notice to the property
11:42:44 appraiser of Hillsborough County, providing for
11:42:45 severability, providing for repeal of all ordinances
11:42:48 in conflict, providing an effective date.
11:42:49 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
11:42:50 (Motion carried).
11:42:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Need to open 91.
11:42:55 >> So moved.
11:42:55 >> Second.
11:42:55 (Motion carried).
11:43:02 >> The last item is on your monitor, locate at 2319
11:43:06 east Fifth Avenue, currently owned by Roger Rixom and
11:43:11 Joan Rixom, constructed in 1928, a bung oh low typical
11:43:18 of the immigrant community in Ybor City.
11:43:21 This is the front elevation.

11:43:23 Prior to rehabilitation.
11:43:32 And how it appears today.
11:43:33 Today you see addition attached to the rear of the
11:43:37 house.
11:43:38 Which was removed.
11:43:40 All the siding was refurbished, the window kept in the
11:43:44 same location.
11:43:45 Wood windows, period appropriate windows as well.
11:43:48 Some of the siding prior to rehabilitation.
11:43:52 And how the siding is today.
11:43:55 Moving to the interior.
11:44:00 Here are the photos here.
11:44:05 The one I am pointing to here, how they found the
11:44:08 house before they started the work.
11:44:10 Moving down to the bottom here and here.
11:44:13 For the appropriate cabinetry.
11:44:14 Kept the original flooring.
11:44:19 Moving to the back area.
11:44:20 This is the tub and the floor condition and the walls,
11:44:23 prior to rehabilitation.
11:44:27 How it appears today.
11:44:29 They kept the period sensitive flooring.

11:44:33 Refurbished the tub.
11:44:35 And the last photo I'm going to show is the vanity.
11:44:39 And in that bathroom, how it was covered with an
11:44:43 inappropriate material.
11:44:44 And how it appears today on the bottom here.
11:44:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have a question.
11:44:50 These last two, 90 and 91, the addresses lead me to
11:44:54 believe that they have been done through the D.O.T.
11:44:57 project, the D.O.T. project with the city and the feds
11:45:01 working together to help fund this.
11:45:03 Is that right?
11:45:06 >>> The D.O.T. and the city project kind of spurred
11:45:07 this on.
11:45:08 They took the leadership role and now affecting to the
11:45:11 neighborhood.
11:45:12 These are private individuals that bought the houses
11:45:15 and they took it upon themselves to rehabilitate.
11:45:17 >> So this is just a spin-off of that good work.
11:45:20 >>> Yes, sir.
11:45:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Does anyone in the public want to speak
11:45:23 on item 91?
11:45:25 Need to close.

11:45:26 >> So moved.
11:45:26 >> Second.
11:45:27 (Motion carried).
11:45:27 >>MARY MULHERN: Move an ordinance approving a historic
11:45:37 preservation property tax exemption application
11:45:43 relative to the restoration, renovation or
11:45:46 rehabilitation of certain property owned by Roger
11:45:49 Rixom and Joan K. Rixom located at 2319 east Fifth
11:45:53 Avenue Tampa, Florida in the Ybor City historic
11:45:56 district based upon certain findings, providing for
11:45:58 notice to the property appraiser of Hillsborough
11:46:00 County, providing for severability, providing for
11:46:03 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
11:46:05 effective date.
11:46:07 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
11:46:08 (Motion carried).
11:46:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that's
11:46:13 going to speak on item 92?
11:46:15 Would you please stand and raise your right hand?
11:46:17 (Oath administered by Clerk).
11:46:27 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
11:46:28 You have before you an appeal of a denial of a

11:46:32 hazardous tree removal, grand tree removal, pursuant
11:46:36 to 1345 of your code.
11:46:40 Mr. Graham, on behavior of the Parks Department here
11:46:43 and you may want to go ahead, and before you hear from
11:46:46 anybody else, hear from Mr. Graham to explain where we
11:46:51 are and then hear from the petitioner for the
11:46:53 assessment.
11:46:58 >>> Steve Graham, Parks and Recreation Department.
11:47:02 As --
11:47:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Point of order.
11:47:07 I noticed when I was reading through this file for
11:47:09 some reason my name was on one of the documents.
11:47:11 And I inquired as to how my name got on one of the
11:47:16 documents related to this.
11:47:17 I think what happened just for the record, to clarify,
11:47:20 because it kind of confused me, I think what happened
11:47:23 was is a neighbor had called my office, because this
11:47:27 is my district, and it addressed some question or
11:47:31 concern about the tree.
11:47:33 My office in turn, just as a matter of course, and I
11:47:38 don't think I was everyone aware of it, passed that
11:47:40 concern on to staff, and somehow or other my name

11:47:43 ended up on the referral.
11:47:46 So in case anybody was wondering if they saw that
11:47:48 document, that's how my name ended up on there but I
11:47:51 don't have any other information about this case.
11:47:53 I just wanted to clarify that for the record.
11:47:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay, Mr. Graham.
11:48:00 >>STEVE GRAHAM: Madam Chair, members of council.
11:48:03 This is an appeal of an administrative decision to
11:48:05 deny a permit for the removal of a grand tree at 722
11:48:10 south fielding street, and you should have a copy of
11:48:13 that report from Karen Palus, and it addresses the
11:48:18 particulars.
11:48:19 It's a 36-inch Laurel oak.
11:48:21 And I do have photographs and I'll share those with
11:48:24 you in a moment.
11:48:25 And we evaluated the tree.
11:48:27 The tree is not without some defects.
11:48:29 But we felt like did it not meet the hazard criteria.
11:48:32 And I'll go into the process that we go through when
11:48:36 we evaluate trees.
11:48:38 To begin with, we do a tree evaluation report.
11:48:45 And you're right, Mr. Dingfelder's name is on here,

11:48:47 but you are equally right that it came in through your
11:48:50 office, I guess, as opposed to you directly.
11:48:53 36-inch Laurel oak, 184 points, and I'll show you the
11:48:59 report so you can be familiar, I guess go down.
11:49:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Turn it over.
11:49:07 You probably have that in your packet as well.
11:49:12 I just want you to be familiar with the form.
11:49:14 So that's what initiates a call to go out and to
11:49:18 evaluate a grand tree, whether it's construction
11:49:21 related or if it's just coming in or someone is
11:49:25 concerned about a tree near their home.
11:49:27 So we fill that out, and companion forms that goes
11:49:30 along with that is the tree hazard evaluation form
11:49:36 which you will also find in the back of chapter 13, of
11:49:40 the tree and landscape code.
11:49:42 And this particular tree scored an 8 out of 12 points.
11:49:47 12 is dead or dying.
11:49:49 A good or healthy tree would score probably no better
11:49:54 than 6 because there's always the factor of target.
11:50:01 One is the failure potential of the stem of the tree.
11:50:04 Two is the size of the defects, or defective limbs,
11:50:09 whether they are smaller limbs, or larger limbs.

11:50:12 And then the third thing that we evaluate is that if
11:50:16 the tree fails, what will it strike or what damage can
11:50:20 incur, what kind of risks are we managing?
11:50:23 And so with a healthy tree, we would be looking at six
11:50:28 with the dead or dying tree, 12.
11:50:30 And this one scored 8.
11:50:33 I mentioned earlier, it's not without defects.
11:50:36 There is a cavity at the base of the tree on the south
11:50:39 side, southern exposure, where sidewalk was put in
11:50:44 many, many years ago, and that's 50 years ago.
11:50:47 And so root was lost there and you will see some
11:50:53 subsidence of the sidewalk.
11:50:54 I have a photograph of that.
11:50:56 I would like for to you see both the pros and cons and
11:51:00 how we evaluated those trees.
11:51:06 It's not the best picture but what you are seeing is
11:51:10 the orange mesh of the protected barricade that goes
11:51:14 around both protected and grand trees, and sidewalk
11:51:17 where it's across.
11:51:19 That's where the tree, we have lost a tree root.
11:51:23 What happens when we lose a tree root is there is a
11:51:25 decay pattern that goes up at the base of the stems,

11:51:30 and we evaluate what the percentage of that is.
11:51:33 And in this case it's less than 25%.
11:51:35 We visually observed it.
11:51:39 Yes, it does have some decay.
11:51:41 Does that compromise the structural stability of the
11:51:43 tree?
11:51:43 No, not in our opinion.
11:51:45 That is not the only defect.
11:51:46 There is another defect in one of the primary stems at
11:51:52 mid crown level, and that too is a cavity. That can
11:51:55 be ameliorated through weight reduction.
11:51:59 We do not see this tree as a failure potential.
11:52:05 And let me just share with you a couple more pictures.
11:52:10 Here's the tree in general.
11:52:13 You can see the physiology or outward appearance or
11:52:18 health of the tree is good.
11:52:19 There is a little bit at the crown which is not
11:52:23 surprising in some of these more mature oaks that we
11:52:25 have.
11:52:26 I know there was some concern on the part of the
11:52:28 applicant of the tree falling on their house.
11:52:30 That tree, through photo tropic, and that's where they

11:52:36 grow towards the light, has grown away from that
11:52:38 house.
11:52:39 And I can show you how that works in that when that
11:52:43 occurs, this would be the north side of the tree.
11:52:47 I'll pull it down a bit.
11:52:50 If you look very closely at the Anchorage root, you
11:52:55 will see through fissuring of the bark, that's growth
11:52:58 expansion, this is the side of the tree that is
11:53:03 stretching from growing away from the house.
11:53:06 It is fortunately very -- you can see that that tree
11:53:13 is not at all likely to be a candidate for stem
11:53:18 failure.
11:53:19 I do have some concern about the branch in the mid
11:53:21 crown but that's not something that I can show you
11:53:22 without a lot of shadowing.
11:53:24 But that can be alleviated through pruning.
11:53:29 And finally Wan we send out to the applicator the
11:53:34 petitioner is notice of our finding, and you can see
11:53:39 here back in June 29 that we denied the removal based
11:53:45 on it not fulfilling the hazard criteria, and
11:53:49 recommended that it go before the board.
11:53:51 So that's really the last form involved in going

11:53:55 through this process.
11:53:56 It's a noticing process.
11:53:58 I know there was some concern from some of the
11:54:01 neighbors.
11:54:04 But there was also concern by the applicant that's
11:54:08 something you will have to weigh.
11:54:09 I will mention that the city is in the process of
11:54:13 adding another strategic objective that's being housed
11:54:16 in the solid waste department, the green initiative.
11:54:20 If I'm running on too long just say so.
11:54:22 I was just going to say that Dave McCary's shot
11:54:26 there, you will hear people talking about carbon
11:54:29 footprint and hear that in the news a lot.
11:54:31 And that's what we are trying to get under control.
11:54:34 And the way to do that is to look at the other side of
11:54:36 the equation, and that's the green food print.
11:54:39 Because all the literature suggests or states that the
11:54:43 most efficient and cost effective way of removing
11:54:47 greenhouse gases is to maintain a healthy tree canopy.
11:54:51 And the flip side of that is, besides planting trees
11:54:54 and taking better care of them so they are more
11:54:58 effective at what they do, which is extracting carbon

11:55:02 dioxide, we need to protect them.
11:55:04 And when we don't, when we take a tree down
11:55:06 unnecessarily, the flip side of that is all that
11:55:09 carbon, say this tree in particular -- and I'll show
11:55:12 you the photograph so you can visualize it -- in my
11:55:16 estimation, the trees we remove on city rights-of-way
11:55:20 from day to day this one ranges in the area of 15
11:55:23 times, the majority of that is carbon.
11:55:25 So when a tree is dying and when it's dead, through
11:55:28 the process of respiration, all of that carbon is
11:55:32 rereleased into the atmosphere.
11:55:34 The upshot is we not only need to plan and take better
11:55:39 care of our trees but protect and value them.
11:55:41 Unless you have any questions that concludes my
11:55:43 presentation.
11:55:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Graham.
11:55:47 As part any of the petition, I'm sure it's of record
11:55:53 because I have it in my file here, is March 8th
11:55:56 letter from with Mr. DePaul's evaluation, a certified
11:56:05 arborist, I guess, and I'm just wondering, you can
11:56:08 either do this now or you can do it on rebuttal.
11:56:11 Probably just easier to take care of it now.

11:56:14 But do you have comments on his comments?
11:56:16 >>STEVE GRAHAM: I did read his report.
11:56:18 And I have seen where he's done reports in the past.
11:56:21 And generally he's a pretty good arborist.
11:56:25 And I'm not disputing that there isn't decay in the
11:56:30 tree.
11:56:30 But fortunately with trees, there's a large amount of
11:56:33 redundancy built in.
11:56:37 The tree weigh about 15-tons.
11:56:39 If you go through and work out the biomechanics of
11:56:43 this tree and its ability to withstand wind loads and
11:56:47 the gravity of its own weight would only require a
11:56:52 cylinder four inches in diameter.
11:56:55 So a little bit of decay does not concern me much.
11:56:58 I mentioned that the cavity is less than 25%.
11:57:01 If it had been in the realm of 40 or 50%, and there
11:57:04 wasn't a lot of residual wood, live wood in the wall,
11:57:08 the circumference, which is what supports wind loads,
11:57:13 not the interior.
11:57:14 The interior is basically neutral.
11:57:16 You can have all the decay in the world in the center
11:57:18 of a tree and that's not going to affect its

11:57:21 load-bearing capability.
11:57:23 So in this case, it's not substantial enough to make
11:57:26 it hazardous.
11:57:28 And in that vein I guess I'm in disagreement with Mr.
11:57:31 DePaul.
11:57:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The only other question I have is,
11:57:36 number one, observed fruiting body in the crown.
11:57:43 I don't know what that is but this indicates a root
11:57:45 fungus.
11:57:46 >>> There are decay fungi on live wood and deadwood
11:57:55 and I wouldn't be surprised at all to see the fruiting
11:57:57 body or the reproductive body that manifest in late
11:58:01 summer to early fall in this tree, because it does
11:58:05 have decay.
11:58:06 It's not working -- it's not an aggressive, live wood
11:58:12 can core causing fungal pathogen.
11:58:17 It's one that works very slowly in the decay okay
11:58:19 process, and not on live wood, the wood that provides
11:58:22 the load bearing capability for the tree.
11:58:30 I am wouldn't be surprised to see them but I did not
11:58:33 see any.
11:58:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?

11:58:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I'm sorry to interrupt but
11:58:37 before the petitioner gets underway I want to bring to
11:58:39 council's attention the approaching noon hour with
11:58:41 regard to council's rules, if it wishes to waive.
11:58:48 >> Move to continue through this.
11:58:52 >> Second.
11:58:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
11:58:54 (Motion carried).
11:58:57 >>> Excuse me, are we continuing?
11:58:59 Roger Burnca, architect.
11:59:03 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Have you been sworn?
11:59:04 >>> I have, yes, just a moment ago.
11:59:06 As you know, I would like to use the overhead
11:59:11 projector.
11:59:12 This is the property at 722 south fielding.
11:59:21 In 2006, came to me for the design and renovation of
11:59:30 this historic property.
11:59:32 The design went before the ARC and it received
11:59:34 approval.
11:59:35 Part of the approval was for a side porch.
11:59:43 This is the side of the same property.
11:59:47 The trees colored orange are other trees. The tree in

11:59:52 green is our tree.
11:59:54 This is a partial of the design of the porch.
12:00:05 You see we are -- not trying to but we are following
12:00:09 secretary of interior standards to make this property
12:00:14 an authentic restoration so that the owners can apply
12:00:19 for ad valorem tax credit.
12:00:21 So we don't just do it any old way.
12:00:24 This porch on the side of the house is a replication
12:00:27 of what is on the front of the house.
12:00:32 Now, 722 fielding is a property which the owners pay
12:00:37 considerable taxes.
12:00:39 This is the view out of their side yard.
12:00:41 If you take those taxes, and if you have this view out
12:00:46 of your side yard, would you not also wish to be able
12:00:49 to use your property to be able to sit on a porch and
12:00:55 enjoy this view?
12:00:58 Please bear that in mind.
12:01:04 The problem is that this tree falls within the 6-foot
12:01:14 proximity to the proposed structure, and it is also I
12:01:27 believe less than 15 to the existing structure.
12:01:30 Now, there are ways of building so we do not further
12:01:41 destroy the roots of the tree system.

12:01:43 But that really is not the problem at hand.
12:01:48 Now, Mr. Graham said that the tree is growing away
12:01:51 from the home because of the light pattern.
12:01:57 I hope you can see here, this is the eve of the
12:02:02 existing house. The tree grows well over that
12:02:07 structure.
12:02:14 Okay.
12:02:14 I would also like to give, for the record -- (off
12:02:28 microphone) --
12:02:33 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did you want this distributed along
12:02:36 and be filed afterwards?
12:02:38 >>> Yes, sir.
12:02:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I guess we can take this as
12:02:44 evidence?
12:02:47 Okay.
12:02:48 >>> Now, Mr. DePaul has done work for me in the past,
12:02:51 as I am an architect frequently in the Hyde Park area.
12:02:57 And Hyde Park, mind you, has many declining trees.
12:03:02 The trees were planted in the teens, and certain
12:03:09 species, the Laurel oak only lives to be 60 or 70
12:03:13 years old.
12:03:14 This is such -- this is one of those trees.

12:03:19 I just want to point out some of Mr. DePaul's
12:03:22 observations.
12:03:23 The root fungus, this discoloration of the trunk of
12:03:29 the tree, indicates fungus.
12:03:32 The fruiting bodies in the tree.
12:03:35 Where do you get mushroom?
12:03:37 You get mushrooms on rotting material.
12:03:42 Observed several decay holds, lots of dieback in the
12:03:48 crown indicating the tree is in decline.
12:03:49 Now, at one point the roots of this tree were severely
12:03:52 pruned in order to put in a sidewalk.
12:03:55 This is the city's own public works, which came and
12:03:59 cut the roots along the entire south side of the tree,
12:04:03 right up against the tree, which then led to the loss
12:04:07 of the roots on that side of the tree.
12:04:10 Now, please, you know when you have a tower, like a
12:04:15 communications tower, and it has guy wires holding it.
12:04:19 If you cut the tree and the roots that anchor this
12:04:24 tree, but on a tower, when you cut the guy wire on one
12:04:28 side, it doesn't fall that way, it falls to the side
12:04:33 that the guy wire is still attached.
12:04:37 The roots of the tree are on the house side, the side

12:04:40 that has been cut, has been severed, is the side away
12:04:44 from the tree.
12:04:46 Therefore, when that tree falls, it is going to
12:04:49 fall -- I say when, not if -- when that tree comes
12:04:53 down, it is going to fall towards the house.
12:04:58 We just had in Hyde Park a case of Gorrie Elementary
12:05:03 school where a tree of this size, not in a hurricane,
12:05:07 just in a rainstorm, the tree snapped at the trunk.
12:05:14 This was a tree that had a full green crown.
12:05:18 It had internal decay.
12:05:22 It collapsed on the parking lot.
12:05:24 Had this happened two weeks later than it did, it
12:05:28 would have crushed cars in the parking lot, and very
12:05:32 possibly caused -- maybe even loss of life, as the
12:05:40 teachers use the parking lot and often teachers even
12:05:43 bring their own children to the school.
12:05:46 Okay.
12:05:47 Mr. DePaul recommends that this water oak be removed.
12:05:52 Potential targets of the tree are cars, people, power
12:05:58 lines, and houses.
12:06:04 Now, let's go on here.
12:06:08 This is the crown of the tree.

12:06:13 Council, you can see the degree of dieback in this
12:06:20 tree.
12:06:20 Let me show you the tree across the street which is a
12:06:23 healthy tree.
12:06:24 That's what the crown should look like.
12:06:27 That is had healthy tree across the street.
12:06:32 Again, this is the drown of our tree.
12:06:36 Here is a case where you have different growth
12:06:48 patterns which are not normal to a healthy tree here,
12:06:57 discoloration and fungus up in the tree.
12:06:59 You can see that the tree is basically having
12:07:03 difficulty, vascular difficulty.
12:07:07 That's like our circulation system.
12:07:10 Nutrients are not able properly to flow through the
12:07:14 tree.
12:07:14 So what is happening here is the tree is putting out
12:07:19 emergency limbs on the lower branches.
12:07:25 This happens on a tree that is dying.
12:07:39 This is a photograph of the situation.
12:07:42 I don't know if you can see on the photograph but the
12:07:44 sidewalk is actually concave.
12:07:46 It drops as it is right up against the tree

12:07:55 The reason is the roots were cut away, they built the
12:08:00 sidewalk, the sidewalk is now flat.
12:08:03 Now this causes some additional problem.
12:08:05 When it rains, the waters pools in this area, adding
12:08:09 to the potential for rot for this tree.
12:08:21 Now, cornucopia is online for horticulture.
12:08:29 I would like to read a few things about this.
12:08:32 The tree is not -- this is speaking of water oaks,
12:08:35 Laurel oaks.
12:08:36 The tree is not a good compartmentalizer of decay.
12:08:49 The tree allows it.
12:08:55 This tree has been injured. The decay is spreading
12:08:57 through the tree.
12:08:58 This makes it quite sensitive to injure.
12:09:02 Decay spreads quickly in the trunk and branches and
12:09:07 shortens the tree's life if the trunk is injured.
12:09:10 Well, we have just seen that the trunk has been
12:09:12 injured, the roots have been cut on the whole south
12:09:14 side of the tree.
12:09:29 The client had a tree service before we began the work
12:09:31 on the renovation and restoration of the house.
12:09:33 The client had a tree service come and prune the tree.

12:09:37 The clients said, well, can't you prune more of it
12:09:40 out?
12:09:41 And they said, no, ma'am, you cannot prune more than
12:09:45 we have taken out of the tree.
12:09:48 So we have a tree, which is top heavy and unbalanced.
12:09:56 This is the most interesting thing.
12:09:57 The North American water oak, this tree often begins
12:10:02 to break apart and decay just as it grows to a
12:10:07 desirable size.
12:10:10 Old trees -- old trees are about 50 to 70 years old.
12:10:15 That is the age of this tree.
12:10:17 That's the age of most of the old trees in Hyde Park.
12:10:21 There are some that are much, much older but they are
12:10:23 not water oaks, they are live oaks.
12:10:27 Okay.
12:10:30 Locate the tree properly.
12:10:31 Take into account the ultimate size.
12:10:40 The ultimate size, since the tree looks best if it is
12:10:43 not pruned to control the size.
12:10:45 And yet we are being asked to prune this tree.
12:10:48 So we have everything going against the tree.
12:10:53 Now, we know that this tree is going to come down.

12:10:59 By itself.
12:11:01 Doesn't need a hurricane.
12:11:03 It will be a wind storm.
12:11:04 It will be some night.
12:11:08 Who is going -- do you think the insurance company is
12:11:11 going to then cover the damage?
12:11:13 We all know, we have come here before you, before the
12:11:18 public, with this information.
12:11:20 The insurance company is only going to say -- we are
12:11:23 not going to pay for it.
12:11:24 You have the arborist's report.
12:11:27 The tree should come down.
12:11:31 What we have here in addition, and I am not going to
12:11:36 read this link to you, but this is an activity log of
12:11:40 the 77 days that it took for the city to determine
12:11:47 whether this is a grand oak or not a grand oak.
12:11:52 77 days it took from the time my client made the
12:11:59 application to remove the tree.
12:12:02 It was back and forth between one department and
12:12:04 another department.
12:12:07 First it was not a grand tree, and only at the end of
12:12:10 the 77 days it suddenly became a grand tree, and the

12:12:17 dimension actually, the measured dimensions were
12:12:20 different than those dimensions originally taken by
12:12:23 the city.
12:12:25 So from not grand -- what happened in that 77 days?
12:12:31 My client was paying for two homes.
12:12:35 The construction was stopped.
12:12:38 The architecture process was hampered.
12:12:44 Since June, now, until August, that is additional
12:12:50 time.
12:12:52 We have been injured, the contractor has been
12:12:55 financially injured.
12:12:57 I have, my client Haas has been financially injured by
12:13:03 a process, which we are tree lovers, we want to take
12:13:07 this tree out and put a healthy tree in.
12:13:10 Not in the same place.
12:13:11 A little over so it will be free from the old house
12:13:17 and the new house.
12:13:18 Here is an additional problem we have.
12:13:21 This is a site plan, measured drawing,.
12:13:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Upside down.
12:13:38 Give at 180.
12:13:39 >>> This is the tree.

12:13:40 This is the -- approved by the City of Tampa.
12:13:45 Driveway for the new addition.
12:13:48 Right here in orange you see an existing power pole,
12:13:53 and the guy wires which hold up that power pole.
12:13:57 When we build this driveway, which we have approval
12:14:01 for, TECO will come and they will move that pole
12:14:06 because they have to move it out of the way of our
12:14:09 driveway.
12:14:10 They will move it this way, the only place that they
12:14:13 can move it.
12:14:14 They will move it closer to the tree.
12:14:18 Right now, this is the relationship of the tree and
12:14:23 the power line.
12:14:25 The power poles not only serve twos houses but it also
12:14:29 has a transformer.
12:14:31 This is a close-up of that.
12:14:34 Now, what's going to happen when they move that tree
12:14:37 closer to the house?
12:14:40 This is what's going to happen.
12:14:43 It happened throughout the city.
12:14:46 TECO cuts out the center of the trees so that the
12:14:51 trees do not hamper the power lines.

12:14:59 After the last hurricane threat, Charlie, the mayor
12:15:02 had told everyone in the city that the city will be
12:15:06 doing this.
12:15:08 (Bell sounds).
12:15:09 They will be clearing the trees away from the power
12:15:12 line.
12:15:12 And we know that this tree cannot stand any more
12:15:17 cutting on it.
12:15:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Your time is up now.
12:15:20 That's it.
12:15:21 >>> Just one last thing I would like to say is remind
12:15:24 you of the case in Tampa Heights, which council in its
12:15:31 good thinking understood that in order to build a
12:15:35 city, you can't save every tree.
12:15:40 You need to plant new trees.
12:15:41 And I will sit down by just telling you that I have
12:15:43 been for the last two weeks working on United States
12:15:48 Navy bases, doing historic resource management.
12:15:53 The trees on the Navy bases are all catalogued, he
12:15:57 have single tree.
12:15:58 They are all tagged.
12:16:00 And the Navy goes around on the base, removing any

12:16:05 tree that has any sign of decline, replacing it with
12:16:09 young, healthy trees.
12:16:12 This is the proper procedure.
12:16:14 Thank you, sir -- ma'am.
12:16:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
12:16:17 Next.
12:16:18 >>> Rebecca Kert, legal department. I just wanted to
12:16:21 provide a little framework for where you are.
12:16:23 This is a de novo review so it is appropriate to
12:16:26 consider new evidence and you are not bound by your
12:16:28 staff decision.
12:16:28 This is your decision to make.
12:16:32 This is a hazardous tree evaluation, it not a
12:16:35 reasonable use or any of the categories.
12:16:37 That being said, hazardous trees are reviewed, as
12:16:41 Steve has said, through the tree hazard evaluation
12:16:44 form.
12:16:44 There are three categories, which is the failure of
12:16:47 potential, the size of the defective part and the
12:16:49 target rating, which is whatever object is below this
12:16:54 being the target.
12:16:55 So I just wanted to provide that to you.

12:16:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What would our standard be in terms
12:17:00 of accepting or overturning staff's decision?
12:17:04 >>REBECCA KERT: It's a de novo decision.
12:17:06 So now the decision is in your hands.
12:17:08 You make that decision.
12:17:11 And there is not a cut-off point on the hazardous
12:17:14 weighting scale.
12:17:16 You know, the scale, four points for each so you could
12:17:20 have up to 12.
12:17:21 But even with a 12, there may be pruning or other
12:17:24 things that could be done that would remove the target
12:17:26 and take it down to a lower number.
12:17:27 So it's purely within City Council's determination
12:17:31 about whether or not this meets the hazardous
12:17:34 criteria.
12:17:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have one more question.
12:17:37 >> Just a follow-up, in any case like this, you would
12:17:42 rely your decision upon the competent substantial
12:17:44 evidence, whatever that decision is, whatever that
12:17:46 evidence is that enforces that decision.
12:17:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
12:17:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just very quickly.

12:17:54 As petitioner.
12:17:57 And I'll make a disclaimer.
12:17:58 I'm sure Ms. Saul-Sena will join in.
12:18:01 I have known Ms. Wax many, many years, our sons grew
12:18:05 up together, have been friends, been in the house,
12:18:08 also with guests, somebody as much of a tree hugger as
12:18:13 we are, what's the deal?
12:18:17 Why is it important to remove this tree?
12:18:21 >>> You know, we didn't start our renovation --
12:18:24 >> The tree has been there longer than you have had
12:18:25 the house. Anyway, what's the deal?
12:18:28 >>> Well, I guess, you know, we started our renovation
12:18:31 with the tree being there.
12:18:33 And as we got closer to starting construction, we
12:18:36 realized that there's a lot of dead limbs.
12:18:39 So as said I called a person in, they came in, they
12:18:45 did cutting, they got done and there was still a bunch
12:18:47 of dead limbs.
12:18:50 And it will unbalance the tree and cause to the fall
12:18:55 faster.
12:18:56 And the tree, the difference between where the roots
12:18:59 are and where the root system used to be, there's a

12:19:01 good two to three feet difference.
12:19:04 My biggest concern was have the city come in and look
12:19:12 inside the tree.
12:19:13 They noted everything from the sidewalk.
12:19:15 And I don't see how you can get a good determination
12:19:18 without actually crawling up into the tree and looking
12:19:20 at it.
12:19:22 >> Is that what Pete did?
12:19:24 >>> Pete was up there doing everything.
12:19:26 Lowering limbs.
12:19:27 They cut as much as they possibly could.
12:19:29 We didn't want anybody to get hurt during the
12:19:31 construction.
12:19:32 We didn't want the tree to be in the way of the
12:19:34 construction.
12:19:35 So we had it cut.
12:19:37 As well as we could, to the point they didn't feel
12:19:40 comfortable any more in cutting it.
12:19:43 And there's still dead limbs in there.
12:19:46 And we have had them fall down on trees.
12:19:48 You know, it would be different if you could assure us
12:19:52 that the limbs are going to stay there for another 20

12:19:54 years.
12:19:54 But my feelings are, we are going to have limbs
12:19:57 falling from now until it's completely down.
12:20:02 If it was growing, that would be one thing.
12:20:04 It past the growing and reaching its grand stage.
12:20:07 It's in the deterioration phase.
12:20:09 So is the city willing to gamble on it if it's going
12:20:12 to stay up there and not hurt anybody?
12:20:14 Because we don't want it up anymore.
12:20:15 It's too dangerous.
12:20:17 >> One last question.
12:20:18 What type of replacement -- I mean, we have a minimal
12:20:21 replacement program.
12:20:23 You all talked about what type of replacement you
12:20:25 would put in there?
12:20:27 >>> Something big and beautiful.
12:20:28 Whatever you want.
12:20:28 I mean, when we started the renovation of the house we
12:20:34 moved most of the trees around the house so they
12:20:36 wouldn't be damaged and we planted it at the property
12:20:39 we are living at now so we can transfer it.
12:20:42 At one time we had a big growing Magnolia tree in the

12:20:45 front yard.
12:20:45 That is now at the other house growing.
12:20:47 So we can put a big oak tree in the front yard now.
12:20:49 We can put one on the city property.
12:20:51 This one just happened to be planted 78 years ago, our
12:20:57 property and then the sidewalk. If they would have
12:20:59 taken the sidewalk when they did the roots, that tree
12:21:03 would still be growing.
12:21:05 So I believe -- it's not just one-third.
12:21:10 It's almost half of the tree that the limbs have
12:21:13 rotted out.
12:21:14 It's not a healthy tree.
12:21:15 It's not a growing tree.
12:21:18 It's in its dying phase.
12:21:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
12:21:22 Other questions by council members?
12:21:23 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Move to close the public hearing.
12:21:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to close.
12:21:29 (Motion carried).
12:21:30 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: The compelling evidence to me is
12:21:36 the last part that was brought up about the telephone
12:21:40 being moved, the telephone pole will eventually be

12:21:44 moved for the driveway.
12:21:46 And that tree is definitely going to fall on that
12:21:48 house.
12:21:48 There's no root there.
12:21:50 All the pressure is going to be on the inside.
12:21:53 And in the event of a serious storm, it will
12:21:56 definitely go on their house.
12:21:59 So I move to grant their permit.
12:22:03 The appeal.
12:22:11 >> Second.
12:22:12 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
12:22:14 Mr. Dingfelder?
12:22:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just a quick comment.
12:22:17 This is a very tough one.
12:22:19 Generally, I think we all lake to be supportive of
12:22:23 staff and of Mr. Graham as possible.
12:22:26 Mr. Graham has been dedicated to our tree canopy for
12:22:31 20-something years with the city.
12:22:33 And I know that it's probably just a matter of
12:22:36 professional differences on this particular tree.
12:22:40 But in light of the testimony I'll support the
12:22:43 petition as well.

12:22:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
12:22:46 (Motion carried)
12:22:51 We go to recess until 1:30.
12:22:54 (City Council recess)

Tampa City Council
Thursday, August 23, 2007
1:30 p.m. session

The following represents an unedited version of
realtime captioning which should neither be relied
upon for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
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capital letters and any variation thereto may be a
result of third party edits and software compatibility
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.

13:37:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Roll call.
13:37:18 [Roll Call]
13:37:19 >>GWEN MILLER: We want to finish our agenda this
13:37:21 morning.
13:37:21 We are going to start with information from council
13:37:23 members.
13:37:23 Mr. Caetano, do you have anything?
13:37:25 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I don't.
13:37:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Miranda?
13:37:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I would like council to give

13:37:34 commendation to the Hispanic sciences of the year.
13:37:37 Mr. VEGA.
13:37:40 >> Second.
13:37:40 (Motion carried)
13:37:42 >> CHAIRMAN: Anything else?
13:37:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: That's it, Madam Chair.
13:37:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We received something from Dennis
13:37:49 Fernandez of historic preservation about an
13:37:54 application.
13:38:04 (off microphone).
13:38:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry, council members, is it a
13:38:09 proclamation?
13:38:10 It's a resolution?
13:38:15 I have been informed it will appear on next week's
13:38:20 agenda.
13:38:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I didn't know if we needed to do
13:38:24 anything to get it on there.
13:38:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It's on next week's agenda.
13:38:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Anything else?
13:38:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Um, well, I received this -- on the
13:38:43 two waying of Armenia and Howard, and I wonder if we
13:38:48 might have a special discussion on that.

13:38:58 >>GWEN MILLER: A report back from transportation to
13:39:12 see what the studies say first.
13:39:22 >>MARY MULHERN: Someone from transportation.
13:39:23 We want to just look at this from the perspective of
13:39:26 development, economic development, and revitalizing
13:39:30 downtown
13:39:36 We want to look at from the another angle.
13:39:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Have transportation come on Thursday
13:39:48 and then we can have a discussion after that.
13:39:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I know they are going to say they
13:39:52 are going to do whatever FDOT tells them to do, and
13:39:55 they don't want to have to change their on-off ramp
13:39:58 but frankly we think it can be done in terms of
13:40:01 signage.
13:40:03 I think more people than just transportation.
13:40:07 So maybe we could have a special discussion meeting on
13:40:11 it.
13:40:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If I may.
13:40:18 I'm looking at the transportation committee, the chair
13:40:19 is Mary Mulhern.
13:40:21 Congratulations.
13:40:21 You're doing an excellent job.

13:40:23 Maybe you should be the person to meet with
13:40:25 transportation in due course and put it all together
13:40:30 and report to the council and if need be we have a
13:40:32 full-blown hearing on it.
13:40:34 In other words, find out what the information might be
13:40:36 or may not be to the suiting of yourself and council
13:40:39 members and then go forward and continue in that
13:40:41 avenue.
13:40:41 So you may accomplish what you set out to do.
13:40:48 >>MARY MULHERN: That's fine.
13:40:49 I'll talk to transportation.
13:40:51 I think in the meantime, we could, you know, schedule
13:40:53 a special discussion meeting.
13:40:56 And we'll invite them.
13:41:01 Whoever else we decide.
13:41:03 There's plenty of people that have things to say about
13:41:05 it.
13:41:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: If you will schedule it.
13:41:11 >>MARY MULHERN: I will do that.
13:41:15 You have the regular special discussion?
13:41:20 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Normally, traditionally, they have
13:41:21 been held, let's say, in the Mascotte room on an

13:41:25 off-council day.
13:41:29 At council's convenience.
13:41:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: At nine or noon or one on
13:41:33 non-council day.
13:41:37 You as the chair schedule it and let us know.
13:41:38 >>MARY MULHERN: I'll let you know.
13:41:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Although I suggest if you want to
13:41:42 schedule it, the rules do require that it be announced
13:41:46 and by motion, approval as a City Council at a regular
13:41:51 meeting so if you want to come back either today or
13:41:53 next week with a date.
13:41:59 >>MARY MULHERN: I'll come back before the end of the
13:42:01 meeting with a date.
13:42:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Anything else?
13:42:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yeah, I had a couple of other
13:42:06 things.
13:42:10 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to present a commendation
13:42:13 to some people who have put together an exhibition, an
13:42:17 art exhibition called EN Espanol, coming from one of
13:42:22 our sister cities, Oviedo, Spain, and they are
13:42:27 bringing two women artists from that town, and they
13:42:31 are going to have a show at the Ybor school of the --

13:42:36 HCC school of visual arts and -- visual and performing
13:42:41 arts gallery, which is their new gallery that they are
13:42:43 moving into in Ybor.
13:42:44 And I would like to give a commendation to the people
13:42:47 who at their own expense put this whole thing together
13:42:50 to bring this art, this cultural exchange from Spain
13:42:54 from our sister city.
13:42:56 And I would like to do that for one Cartine and Kosar.
13:43:12 >> Do it where?
13:43:16 >> I would like to do it here.
13:43:18 >> Second.
13:43:18 (Motion carried).
13:43:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Anything else?
13:43:21 >>MARY MULHERN: One thing.
13:43:24 I know councilman Scott also had something to put on
13:43:27 this date, so we can talk about scheduling.
13:43:29 And if we can fit them both in.
13:43:32 But a two-hour workshop with Cal MARCELLA, the general
13:43:41 manager of retail transit in Denver, and he's being
13:43:44 invited here to talk to us about their transit system,
13:43:50 and are moving toward light rail.
13:43:53 So I'd like to do that at the October 25th

13:43:56 meeting.
13:44:04 We meet in the morning.
13:44:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did you want to say a specific time
13:44:08 certain, or set aside two hours or just put it on the
13:44:11 agenda?
13:44:11 ,.
13:44:13 >>> This will be a workshop.
13:44:15 >>MARY MULHERN: That is the workshop.
13:44:16 So our work stop starts in the morning.
13:44:18 Okay.
13:44:20 So maybe at nine.
13:44:26 I would like to just work with you.
13:44:29 How long is your --
13:44:32 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, we already have one voted on
13:44:34 already for that date as well.
13:44:36 >>MARY MULHERN: I thought we changed that.
13:44:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Discussion regarding I believe Lake
13:44:42 Kipling.
13:44:43 >>MARY MULHERN: How long will yours take?
13:44:46 >>> That's up to the county attorney -- I mean the
13:44:48 city attorney.
13:44:50 And --

13:44:55 >>MARY MULHERN: In the morning?
13:44:56 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think we can do both in the same
13:44:58 day.
13:44:58 Both of them.
13:44:59 >>MARY MULHERN: I am going to suggest instead that we
13:45:01 do this at nine.
13:45:02 Let's do mine at nine.
13:45:04 Because I don't think it will take more than a couple
13:45:06 hours.
13:45:08 Would that be okay?
13:45:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's fine.
13:45:11 Well, we can talk about that.
13:45:16 What I wanted to do was go ahead and set the workshop.
13:45:19 I don't think the date has been set yet, right?
13:45:23 For the ordinance.
13:45:24 So we need to go ahead and set that for the 25th
13:45:29 as well.
13:45:30 And what I have done, council members, attached a list
13:45:33 of concerns or questions that I raised.
13:45:35 I think Mr. Smith has those already.
13:45:39 That we send a copy to Mr. Shelby, to all City
13:45:43 Council, and then city attorney.

13:45:50 And if you have that, questions and concerns, outlined
13:45:54 in terms of the ordinance that I think needs to be
13:45:58 answered and addressed when we have this workshop on
13:46:00 the 25th.
13:46:01 And as well, I think we also need to look at the
13:46:11 authority, process, and they did not eliminate their
13:46:15 WMBE portion.
13:46:16 So I would like to have the county participate as well
13:46:19 as the aviation authority when we have this workshop,
13:46:22 Mr. Smith, on the SBE.
13:46:26 In particular because as I went through the whole
13:46:29 ordinance, I saw there was no target goals, no measure
13:46:36 assessed, issue of waiving bonds.
13:46:40 None of that is addressed in this particular
13:46:42 ordinance.
13:46:43 You know, proves R procedures that are outlined, how
13:46:46 you deal with the 200,000.
13:46:47 There's nothing there.
13:46:48 I think that's why we need to have the workshop, and
13:46:50 give us some questions in advance.
13:46:52 And, also, in my opinion, it expand the program beyond
13:46:57 Hillsborough County but at the same time it lessens

13:47:00 the opportunity for minority participation, because
13:47:02 now you have Pasco, Manatee, Pinellas, Polk, who can
13:47:06 come now, bid on these projects, which now you have a
13:47:10 larger pool.
13:47:13 Which is going to have an impact on opportunity for
13:47:15 minorities.
13:47:15 Okay.
13:47:16 So all questions or issues of concern and I have given
13:47:22 them to you, I have also given them to the city
13:47:24 attorney's office that need to be addressed, the
13:47:26 workshop with Mr. Smith's office.
13:47:28 >>GWEN MILLER: What kind of workshop?
13:47:34 >> At 9:00 for two hours, did you say?
13:47:37 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
13:47:39 >> Then take up the SBE after that, about two hours
13:47:41 it's going to take, or longer?
13:47:44 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
13:47:46 It's hard to say.
13:47:48 It probably will take a little bit longer.
13:47:50 We are having a meeting with the task force coming up
13:47:52 very soon.
13:47:53 Depending on how well we can distill that input we can

13:47:58 try to keep to the two hours.
13:47:59 Let's allow for three.
13:48:00 It never hurts to go shorter.
13:48:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Do one at 1:30.
13:48:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think we should do both in the
13:48:08 morning. That way you have the afternoon free.
13:48:11 9:00 and go to 12.
13:48:13 >>MARY MULHERN: Why don't we do yours first?
13:48:18 Because we are bringing someone from out of town.
13:48:20 I'm not sure if we are going to get him in here at
13:48:23 eight in the morning.
13:48:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I'm amenable to whatever you want.
13:48:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Do yours.
13:48:29 >>MARY MULHERN: You think it might take more than two
13:48:31 hours.
13:48:31 >>DAVID SMITH: This is October 25th you're talking
13:48:35 about.
13:48:36 We should be able to focus the discussion.
13:48:39 We'll keep it two.
13:48:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I will move then that we set the
13:48:45 workshop for October 25th at 9 a.m.
13:48:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.

13:48:51 >> motion and second.
13:48:52 (Motion carried).
13:48:53 >>MARY MULHERN: I didn't actually get my motion.
13:48:56 >>GWEN MILLER: All right, your motion.
13:48:58 >>MARY MULHERN: I was going to say, mine will take two
13:49:01 hours.
13:49:01 If you go two hours, it will be eleven to one so maybe
13:49:05 we should do it at 1:30.
13:49:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
13:49:08 >>GWEN MILLER: He said it's not going to last till 11.
13:49:17 So we can do 11 to one.
13:49:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Just bring sandwiches.
13:49:23 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, if I may interject and
13:49:26 discuss this when I discuss the rules, but you may
13:49:28 find a point in time where once you get into the swing
13:49:31 of having these kind of workshops, you will know how
13:49:33 much time you wish to allow.
13:49:38 My concern would be to schedule something that is
13:49:40 further out than -- in other words, to have a gap, and
13:49:44 especially if you schedule something till after lunch,
13:49:47 council may have different schedules and may not be
13:49:49 able to have that much time especially with a gap in

13:49:52 between.
13:49:52 So it would be my recommendation to perhaps schedule
13:49:54 them a little closer to begin with and see how your
13:49:57 time schedule is.
13:49:57 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes, we can just go on.
13:50:00 I'll schedule it at eleven.
13:50:05 10:30?
13:50:05 Okay.
13:50:07 Motion to have a workshop scheduled October 25th
13:50:10 at 10:30 with Cal MARCELLA from the Denver mutual
13:50:17 transit district.
13:50:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
13:50:26 >> He's going to be here?
13:50:27 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
13:50:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The question is he's coming at
13:50:33 somebody somebody's invitation, regional
13:50:36 transportation or whatever.
13:50:36 >>MARY MULHERN: He's coming at Elaine, can't remember
13:50:40 the last name, McLeod, has been talking to him and
13:50:45 they gave me this date.
13:50:46 Because I wanted --
13:50:50 >> I want to make sure that is the case because we

13:50:52 invite him in we have budgetary constraints.
13:50:55 So if he's already been invited in and we are just
13:50:57 piggybacking.
13:50:58 >> He's going to be there that day.
13:51:00 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
13:51:03 (Motion carried)
13:51:06 Do you have anything else?
13:51:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The second thing that I have, Madam
13:51:09 Chair, is that also I would like to ask the
13:51:11 administration to also, at our next board meeting,
13:51:17 bring us up to date on the just negotiation of what's
13:51:20 going on with the fort Homer Hesterly armor
13:51:25 negotiations.
13:51:26 It's my understanding that concluded in June, and this
13:51:29 is now August.
13:51:30 So I would like for the staff, administration to come
13:51:34 bring us a report, a progress report, because we just
13:51:39 need to know and be able to have input.
13:51:41 Thank you.
13:51:41 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
13:51:43 >>MARY MULHERN: Can we make that for two weeks?
13:51:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.

13:51:47 >> motion and second.
13:51:48 (Motion carried).
13:51:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Come up here or written report?
13:51:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No, I want him to come here and make a
13:51:56 report.
13:51:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Under unfinished business okay?
13:52:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
13:52:02 Fine.
13:52:02 >>GWEN MILLER: Anything else?
13:52:04 Okay.
13:52:04 I have one thing for Mr. Smith.
13:52:07 Some time ago I had suggested that we change City
13:52:10 Council elections in November, off year, and check and
13:52:13 see if we could get on the ballot in January.
13:52:16 We have an election in January.
13:52:17 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
13:52:20 Sal Territo has been working on that issue for the
13:52:22 department.
13:52:22 The problem that came up, as I think the elections you
13:52:25 are referring to in January are primaries.
13:52:27 And the question is whether or not we could have an
13:52:32 election of this type at a primary election as opposed

13:52:34 to a general election.
13:52:36 As you know, primaries are only people who are
13:52:39 registered of one party or the other.
13:52:41 If you are not a party registrant, you can't vote in
13:52:45 the primaries.
13:52:46 So we would have to set up -- I may give you too much
13:52:50 information.
13:52:50 We'll come back and speak with you next week with our
13:52:52 update on where we are, and what time frame works most
13:52:56 realistic.
13:52:58 Is that a better way to do it?
13:53:00 >>MARY MULHERN: I thought I remembered when you made
13:53:02 this motion, which I don't like because I don't want
13:53:04 to have to campaign in the summer, but didn't you talk
13:53:07 about doing it in an off year?
13:53:10 >>GWEN MILLER: To put it on the ballot.
13:53:12 Have to vote to change it.
13:53:13 I want to know if we can get it on the ballot to vote
13:53:16 to change it.
13:53:17 >>MARY MULHERN: But what you're saying, David, is it's
13:53:21 a partisan thing?
13:53:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.

13:53:24 >>MARY MULHERN: If we do it in an off year there won't
13:53:26 be any other election.
13:53:28 >>DAVID SMITH: I think given the fact we still need
13:53:32 Justice Department clearance we are not going to be
13:53:33 able to do it for January anyway.
13:53:35 But let me get you the specifics.
13:53:37 Then we can plan out and decide what the appropriate
13:53:39 way to proceed.
13:53:40 So Sal, unfortunately, had a conflict, and as you can
13:53:44 see is not here today and won't be here for the CRA.
13:53:46 But I'll get together with Sal and get an update on
13:53:49 where he is, and then we can talk about that next
13:53:51 week.
13:53:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
13:53:52 Thank you.
13:53:53 Anything else to come before council?
13:53:56 We have item number 44 we didn't do.
13:53:59 Can we do that now, or have to do in the CRA?
13:54:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe you should be able to
13:54:04 recess the council meeting.
13:54:06 Do you wish to take general public comment?
13:54:14 Because otherwise, my understanding, council, is you

13:54:16 would have to take a recess of the council, take up
13:54:20 the issue with you the CRA, have the CRA take action,
13:54:23 and then have the City Council take action on number
13:54:25 44.
13:54:26 >>CHAIRMAN: That's why I wonder can we do it now in
13:54:29 City Council?
13:54:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I don't believe.
13:54:31 That's not way believe was the suggestion originally.
13:54:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: CRA take action first and then
13:54:39 council.
13:54:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: For the CRA to pass judgment along to
13:54:42 City Council for final approval.
13:54:43 >>DAVID SMITH: That would be our recommendation.
13:54:46 There are some issues that are critical to the entire
13:54:50 structure of the deal that the CRA needs to be on
13:54:52 board with regard to.
13:54:54 And if the CRA doesn't agree with council -- it makes
13:55:01 more sense to do CRA first and council second.
13:55:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Then we will go in recess and go to CRA
13:55:06 then.
13:55:12 (City Council recess)

16:21:47 City Council meeting reconvenes.
16:22:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Roll call.
16:22:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
16:22:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
16:22:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: (No response.)
16:22:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: (No response.)

16:22:43 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
16:22:44 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
16:22:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
16:22:47 We are still on our morning agenda.
16:22:49 We have three items we need to continue.
16:22:50 Item number 44, we didn't get to.
16:22:53 So we need to continue that till when?
16:22:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved that this item be
16:22:59 continued, well, we'll have an answer today at 5:30
16:23:07 from the administration, items we just discussed till
16:23:09 next Thursday's agenda.
16:23:10 Would that be fine?
16:23:11 >>GWEN MILLER: That will be fine.
16:23:12 Unfinished business.
16:23:14 >> Second.
16:23:14 (Motion carried).
16:23:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 6 and 20.
16:23:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: 6 and 20.
16:23:23 >>MARTIN SHELBY: That would be me.
16:23:26 Being as it is 4:25, would you like to take this up
16:23:28 next week?
16:23:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to just adopt all the

16:23:33 recommendations you made previously.
16:23:34 I really would.
16:23:34 We spent a lot of time discussing this.
16:23:36 I think we can just move on it.
16:23:39 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I think we can adopt them and make
16:23:41 changes as we go along.
16:23:44 >>GWEN MILLER: I think the clerk made them.
16:23:45 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Actually no changes have been made.
16:23:48 The suggestions have been made.
16:23:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My motion would be that we adopt
16:23:51 the changes that have been suggested.
16:23:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well --
16:23:59 >>> Some of them might conflict.
16:24:00 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I understand what you are saying.
16:24:06 >>MARTIN SHELBY: What I can do is do multiple
16:24:08 resolutions incorporating the changes, so if you feel
16:24:11 comfortable with the decision points at least you
16:24:15 would be able to move next week with the first reading
16:24:17 of it if that's what you wish.
16:24:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's what we wish.
16:24:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'll second that.
16:24:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Get that to us as quick as

16:24:24 possible, just what the decision points are, so we can
16:24:27 think about it for next Thursday, we are ready to
16:24:29 move.
16:24:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
16:24:33 (Motion carried).
16:24:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Anything else coming before council?
16:24:38 >>MARY MULHERN: Receive and file.
16:24:42 I said earlier about picking a date to schedule a
16:24:46 staff report from Wilson Stair about the two-waying of
16:24:54 Howard, Armenia, and Florida and Tampa streets, and I
16:24:58 would like to do that, ask for that Thursday the
16:25:04 6th.
16:25:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
16:25:07 >>GWEN MILLER: You want it as a report?
16:25:10 >>MARY MULHERN: I want a staff report.
16:25:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: You want them to appear?
16:25:17 Second.
16:25:19 (Motion carried).
16:25:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Need to receive and file all documents.
16:25:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
16:25:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
16:25:24 (Motion carried).

16:25:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Anything else?
16:25:27 We stand adjourned until 5:01.