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Tampa City Council
Thursday, September 6, 2007
9:00 a.m. session

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09:06:44 [Sounding gavel]
09:08:04 Tampa City Council is called to order.
09:08:16 Chair will yield to Reverend Scott.
09:08:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's my pleasure to have with us
09:08:22 today, to do our invocation, the reverend Dr. Maxine
09:08:29 Woosard, an ordained minister of the 34th street
09:08:33 church of God, she has a doctorate of education, she
09:08:38 also has a master of arts from the school of social
09:08:41 and behavioral science, University of South Florida,

09:08:45 bachelor arts from school of education, south Florida,
09:08:48 and she also now, we brought her on staff I think in
09:08:53 2005.
09:08:53 We would -- she serves as pastor of community
09:08:57 development, and the Executive Director of our Tampa
09:08:59 Bay community and family Development Corporation.
09:09:01 So Dr. Woosart will give our invocation.
09:09:09 >> if you would bow your heads.
09:09:12 Father, we are just so grateful for this opportunity
09:09:14 to bow before you.
09:09:19 We thank you for grace and mercy.
09:09:20 We thank you for your loving kindness.
09:09:22 Now we pray for this council.
09:09:24 We pray for wisdom, strength and understanding.
09:09:26 We pray that the needs of this great community will be
09:09:29 met, and that to whom much is given, much is required,
09:09:35 that you will allow them to do their job.
09:09:38 It's in your son's name we pray.
09:09:39 Amen.
09:09:42 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
09:10:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I just wanted to mention the very
09:10:04 sad passing of our good friend Bob Thomas.

09:10:10 It's in the newspaper today.
09:10:11 Mr. Thomas was a wonderful person, wonderful
09:10:16 benefactor for this community, and a fine family man.
09:10:21 Started numerous organizations and was very charitable
09:10:25 to our community.
09:10:26 So with that we wish his family well, and we wish him
09:10:29 well.
09:10:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Roll call.
09:10:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
09:10:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
09:10:38 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
09:10:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:10:43 At this time, we do have an item we need to pull from
09:10:47 the agenda?
09:10:48 We need to approve the agenda.
09:10:50 Mr. Dingfelder?
09:10:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes, ma'am.
09:10:53 Item 32 I sent and I think you all might have gotten a
09:11:00 copy, I sent some questions earlier in the week.
09:11:03 We had a short week this week so it was a little hard
09:11:05 for staff and me to get together on these answers,
09:11:09 item 32.

09:11:10 So I'm trying to figure out whether or not we want to
09:11:13 pull it and continue it for two weeks, because we
09:11:16 don't have council next week, or if we want to just go
09:11:19 ahead with it today.
09:11:21 So let me go ahead and find that out.
09:11:23 But it might be item 32.
09:11:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
09:11:28 Any other items?
09:11:31 Mr. Daignault, do you want to come now?
09:11:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is there a time crunch or this or
09:11:38 can we stay time by continuing for woo weeks?
09:11:43 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: There's not a time sensitivity.
09:11:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So I can do that now or do that
09:11:48 later.
09:11:48 >>GWEN MILLER: You can do it now.
09:11:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Continue that for two weeks.
09:11:51 Thank you, staff.
09:11:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:11:53 (Motion carried).
09:11:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Other items by council members?
09:11:58 We need to approve the agenda.
09:12:00 >> So moved.

09:12:01 >> Second.
09:12:01 (Motion carried).
09:12:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Now we go to our staff report.
09:12:06 Unfinished business.
09:12:07 Item number 1.
09:12:18 Rene Benton.
09:12:23 >> good morning.
09:12:25 I'm sorry, I'm losing my hearing so early in the
09:12:27 morning. Anyway, thank you very much, council, for
09:12:30 the invitation to come before you.
09:12:32 And I suppose give you kind of a 30-second public
09:12:37 service announcement on behalf of Tampa Bay workforce
09:12:41 alliance.
09:12:41 Linda Saul-Sena was so kind to invite me to give this
09:12:44 little bit of information about what we do over at
09:12:47 Tampa Bay workforce alliance.
09:12:49 My name is Rene Benton, the president and CEO of the
09:12:54 organization.
09:12:55 We would like you to consider us to be part of your
09:12:57 economic development partnership, if you will, here in
09:12:59 Tampa, and throughout Hillsborough County.
09:13:03 What our organization does a large part to work with

09:13:06 small, large and medium size businesses as well as
09:13:09 with job candidates in search of a job.
09:13:12 Our job is actually to assist with maintaining a
09:13:16 strong labor market, and economic development for us
09:13:20 here in the City of Tampa as well as in Hillsborough
09:13:23 County.
09:13:24 Some of the things that you may have heard, and if you
09:13:27 haven't, I would like you to be familiar with, because
09:13:29 it can be very beneficial to the people that we both
09:13:32 serve.
09:13:32 And one of those things would be our competitive edge
09:13:35 award, and that's one of the things I particularly
09:13:38 want to call to your attention, because throughout the
09:13:42 intensive edge award companies can strengthen or train
09:13:45 up the workforce they currently have so that people
09:13:48 who meet our skill won't be laid off and remain in the
09:13:53 workforce and remain a contributing part of our
09:13:55 society.
09:13:56 So in large part we do provide training dollars for
09:13:58 both job candidates as well as businesses who want to
09:14:02 ramp up the skill levels within their own ranks.
09:14:05 You may have also heard recently about a program

09:14:07 called Florida rebuild, where Tampa Bay workforce
09:14:13 provides dollars for individuals who want to get skill
09:14:15 levels so that they can go into the construction
09:14:17 industry.
09:14:21 The construction industry is in a bit of a decline
09:14:23 compared to where we were last year and the year
09:14:25 previously, but this is an example of the kinds of
09:14:28 program that we bring to bear within Tampa an
09:14:31 Hillsborough County when they are needed again to make
09:14:33 sure the labor force remains strong here.
09:14:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Questions by council members?
09:14:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mrs. Benton, thank you for coming
09:14:45 down today and sharing with council what the alliance
09:14:47 does.
09:14:47 You know, there are 150 staff people from the city who
09:14:50 are having to find additional -- or other employment,
09:14:54 and I thought that the alliance might be able to
09:14:56 provide outreach to them, and I wanted to make sure
09:14:59 that we were all aware of the programs you provide.
09:15:02 How would somebody get ahold of the alliance?
09:15:04 Where are you located and how do we contact you?
09:15:07 >> we can go to one of our closest sent certifies

09:15:09 right in the city, if you go to the corner of Florida
09:15:12 and Busch, our largest center is located there and we
09:15:15 have centers throughout the city.
09:15:17 One is in Brandon.
09:15:18 One is in south shore.
09:15:19 One on the campus of Plant City Hillsborough County
09:15:24 community college.
09:15:25 But Florida and Busch would be the closest location or
09:15:28 go on line to workforce Tampa dot com and we will be
09:15:32 in contact, resources department, to see what we can
09:15:37 do for smooth transition.
09:15:38 In fact, I know you did refer one person and we had
09:15:41 some contacts with them.
09:15:42 But again, with those 150 people we want to make sure
09:15:45 that we can do what we can do to help them have a
09:15:47 smooth transition and continue employment.
09:15:50 You know, it's always one of those economic cycles.
09:15:54 When one door closes there is always another door to
09:15:56 open up.
09:15:57 So we are still in a strong labor market here.
09:16:00 We still have, even though unemployment is increasing
09:16:04 a little bit, we still have many jobs available in the

09:16:07 city.
09:16:09 >> Are your services free to people who are looking
09:16:11 for job placement?
09:16:12 >> yes, they are free.
09:16:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Mrs. Benton.
09:16:18 We appreciate you for coming and fortunately doors are
09:16:24 open.
09:16:25 We go to item number 2.
09:16:28 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
09:16:31 I'm here with a report on the status of our
09:16:33 conversations at the Westshore alliance.
09:16:38 I happened to speak with Mr. Mechanik of the Westshore
09:16:43 alliance, and they do understand the ball is in their
09:16:46 court to bring that forward to us, and he indicated to
09:16:49 me they intend to bring language and information the
09:16:54 next week or two, so I can report back to you after I
09:16:57 have heard from him.
09:16:59 But since something would require an amendment of the
09:17:04 DRI, that is something that does need to come from the
09:17:07 owner.
09:17:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you so much.
09:17:10 I would like to request a report in 30 days on what

09:17:12 the time frame will be for this.
09:17:14 I would assume by then you all would have figured it
09:17:16 out and have plotted a course.
09:17:19 >> I can report back to you where we are in 30 days.
09:17:21 As I said the ball is in their court so there may be a
09:17:26 report back but nothing happened.
09:17:27 >> I understand but that would just keep it on our
09:17:29 radar screen.
09:17:30 My motion would be to get a status report from legal
09:17:33 in 30 days on the Westshore DRI.
09:17:34 >> very good.
09:17:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Would somebody second that, please?
09:17:40 >> Second.
09:17:41 (Motion carried).
09:17:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number 3.
09:17:46 Gregory Hart.
09:17:46 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
09:17:50 We had a recent meeting of the task force for the
09:17:54 drafting and review of the WMBE ordinance.
09:17:57 It was a very lively discussion.
09:18:00 Provided a little summary of the parameters legally.
09:18:02 There was a discussion about some of the specific

09:18:05 provisions, and a series of proposed changes were
09:18:08 recommended.
09:18:09 Greg Hart is preparing those.
09:18:13 We will have one more task force meeting to discuss
09:18:16 those exchanges.
09:18:18 I'm also preparing an information to update each of
09:18:20 you personally on a one-on-one basis so that you will
09:18:24 have the benefit of the current status of the law,
09:18:27 which is sometimes unfortunate, certainly complex and
09:18:30 tangled.
09:18:31 We have a workshop, as you know, currently scheduled
09:18:33 for October 25th.
09:18:34 I think there's some discussion about the
09:18:36 possibilities of moving that up, but given your
09:18:38 schedule I'm not sure how viable that is.
09:18:41 And I'm also having conversations with Ms. Sherri fish
09:18:44 pursuant to the suggestion of Reverend Scott.
09:18:46 We are going to be meeting with her tomorrow.
09:18:48 We are talking also with the airport authority.
09:18:50 We are looking to all of the other entities that have
09:18:54 similar concerns to make sure we can be as innovative
09:18:58 and creative as possible given the state of the law,

09:19:00 had conversation with Tom Gonzalez who as you know is
09:19:04 also the city's labor lawyer.
09:19:06 He's developed and is working the program with the
09:19:08 school board.
09:19:09 So we are going to try to make sure we are in the
09:19:11 mainstream in terms of what we can do.
09:19:16 I have also been playing phone tag with Mr. Albert of
09:19:21 Hillsborough County so we hope to get input from him.
09:19:23 Reason Greg is not here today with the information is,
09:19:26 unfortunately, information is the key to this process.
09:19:29 Way the cases have been decided -- excuse me, my voice
09:19:34 is still not back.
09:19:35 It's a little embarrassing.
09:19:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: like the little rascals.
09:19:45 >>DAVID SMITH: Exactly.
09:19:46 Although I have no alfalfa.
09:19:52 These cases are driven by the facts, and unfortunately
09:19:57 it is imperative that we have good data in order to
09:20:00 defend and support what we want to do.
09:20:05 In all candor, we are having these conversations one
09:20:08 on one, the courts have not been what I would call
09:20:11 uniformly friendly or even uniform, or consistent, in

09:20:15 some of the ways they have dealt with these issues.
09:20:18 And that makes it difficult for me to advise you and
09:20:21 it makes it difficult for you to know what decisions
09:20:23 to make.
09:20:23 But the point is, we have got to get you the correct
09:20:26 data.
09:20:28 And one of the primary objectives of the ordinance as
09:20:31 it's currently drafted is to obtain that data on an
09:20:34 ongoing basis.
09:20:35 I don't want to spend too much time on this today
09:20:37 because we are going to have a workshop on this and I
09:20:39 think it will help you to be more fully informed on
09:20:41 the law as a condition precedent to that workshop.
09:20:45 So I will be trying to set up appointments with each
09:20:47 of you in the very near future to start that
09:20:50 discussion.
09:20:51 And I look forward to any input and suggestions you
09:20:54 may have.
09:20:54 Reverend Scott has been very helpful.
09:20:56 He has shared some of his experiences at the county
09:20:59 and elsewhere.
09:21:00 And input is always good.

09:21:01 So I look forward to receiving any suggestions you may
09:21:06 have.
09:21:06 >>CHAIRMAN: Mr. Dingfelder?
09:21:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I defer to Reverend Scott if you
09:21:10 want.
09:21:11 >>GWEN MILLER: He defers to you.
09:21:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: First off, thank you, Mr. Smith, for
09:21:18 all that you are doing.
09:21:22 What I really requested today was an update in terms
09:21:25 of what has happened since, POS 04 up to now, and I
09:21:30 guess you don't have the data.
09:21:32 >>DAVID SMITH: No, sir, I do not.
09:21:34 It was POS 06 to now.
09:21:37 >> Don't have the data but we are going to discuss the
09:21:39 ordinance in that workshop.
09:21:41 And I have been, I guess, very involved since the
09:21:46 issue has been raised.
09:21:48 I met with a couple of attorneys, I met with the
09:21:52 county staff to refresh my recollection of the
09:21:54 Hillsborough County ordinance and its functions since
09:21:59 1989.
09:22:00 But also, more important, since I got some data from

09:22:02 the disparity study, if you read the backup material,
09:22:06 on the face, I want to call to your attention, Mr.
09:22:09 Smith and the council, on the face, it's construction
09:22:13 and construction-related disparity.
09:22:20 The report in May of 2006, then it shows break down on
09:22:24 ethnicity.
09:22:25 This is why this data is very critical when you start
09:22:27 talking SDE.
09:22:28 Then when you go to the -- the first tells you who is
09:22:33 available, 11% available, Asian, .29, Hispanic 20.7,
09:22:39 on and on and on, you know. But on the next page, we
09:22:42 looked at, from the disparity information, contracts
09:22:48 under $500,000, from October 1, 2001, to September 30,
09:22:55 2004.
09:22:55 If you look at the information and the data it tells
09:22:59 you why -- it tells you the disparity, and important
09:23:04 to me why FDE, he's got to go beyond FDE but you have
09:23:08 to have the WMBE program as well, because already
09:23:11 showing you that is not working.
09:23:13 When you look at the numbers, African-Americans got
09:23:16 less than 9%, okay, based on available contract.
09:23:20 When you go down further, Caucasian female got less

09:23:24 than 9%, $2 million.
09:23:28 Caucasian male got 77, almost 78%, okay?
09:23:34 If you go further, I just point out the data, speaking
09:23:36 to the disparity, okay?
09:23:41 If you go over on the next page, contracts, Mr. Smith,
09:23:46 under 25,000, which means if the administrator picks
09:23:50 up the phone and asks for bids, I mean, you look at
09:23:54 the numbers, African-Americans received $132,000 over
09:24:00 three years, over a three-year period.
09:24:05 Caucasian female, 332,000 over three years.
09:24:11 You looked at the data.
09:24:12 It shows you already the disparity and why, from my
09:24:15 standpoint, Mr. Smith, FBE component is not going to
09:24:20 do it because what happens is now you have to expand
09:24:22 the pool -- no longer do you have race and gender
09:24:28 neutral, because you are moving now to the FBE, where
09:24:32 the WMBE called for race and gender standards, okay?
09:24:39 So you don't have that now.
09:24:40 You remove that.
09:24:41 So if they are already doing bad, and you move it to
09:24:44 FBE race and gender neutral, I mean, and I said this
09:24:51 the other day, that you put in with minorities,

09:24:58 Caucasian female as well as African-Americans, and
09:25:04 that's in my experience, ten years of looking at this
09:25:06 kind of program, and that's why the county went to FBE
09:25:10 and MBE program to complement each other, as well as
09:25:14 Tampa aviation authority, and I don't know what school
09:25:17 board.
09:25:17 You told me something different.
09:25:18 >>DAVID SMITH: They have something similar to FBE,
09:25:23 sir.
09:25:23 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I will tell you now when you look at
09:25:26 the percentage, 93% of the contracts that have been
09:25:29 awarded by the city are going to Caucasian males.
09:25:36 Or should I say right at 87%.
09:25:39 But when we add Caucasian females it moves up to 93%.
09:25:43 Do you understand what I'm talking about in terms of
09:25:45 the data?
09:25:45 So what I'm saying to us is,I mean, I wasn't looking
09:25:52 for this today.
09:25:53 I was looking for what we can get from 2006.
09:25:56 But they don't have the data.
09:25:58 But I'm telling you, this is critical information and
09:26:01 that's why I believe it's critical we not only have

09:26:04 the FBE but also the WMBE program as well.
09:26:08 But we can talk about that more in our workshop.
09:26:13 Now, I understand we want to try to move -- I don't
09:26:17 know how viable that is that you raised earlier.
09:26:19 >>DAVID SMITH: Part of the problem, we are sort of a
09:26:21 victim of our own success, it's certainly the raw
09:26:28 data.
09:26:29 We previously had a finding of a disparity in
09:26:32 subcontracting.
09:26:33 In the most recent disparity study indicated we did
09:26:36 not have a disparity in subcontracting so it had been
09:26:40 a mandatory program and then went into a voluntary
09:26:42 program.
09:26:42 That had gotten rid of the statistical disparity.
09:26:45 We found a disparity according to a disparity study.
09:26:51 I will elaborate this when I meet with you and the
09:26:53 workshop, it's a different set of analyses when you
09:26:56 have a disparity among crimes versus a disparity among
09:27:00 subcontractors it has to do with the discriminating
09:27:04 party.
09:27:05 We probably are getting ahead of ourselves so let me
09:27:08 brief each of you individually, give you the

09:27:10 background, explain the reason why I think we need to
09:27:12 do a race and gender neutral program for a period of
09:27:14 time to bolster our argument, and if we still have the
09:27:18 disparity, then move to the race and gender conscious.
09:27:21 I understand the desire to move more quickly.
09:27:23 I just want to make sure that if and when we get
09:27:26 there, that we get there in a way that we will be
09:27:29 sustained if we are challenged.
09:27:31 I will elaborate on all of that.
09:27:32 I prefer to elaborate on a one-on-one meeting because
09:27:36 I do not want to provide ammunition for anyone who may
09:27:39 want to challenge the program that we do come up with.
09:27:41 And as I said, I'm looking at some other measures to
09:27:43 see if we can enhance or expedite the source of
09:27:48 measures that Reverend Scott is indicating, because we
09:27:50 do have some raw data problems that need to be
09:27:52 addressed.
09:27:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, David, and Tom as well.
09:28:01 When you mentioned a minute ago about work shopping
09:28:03 this, has it been scheduled?
09:28:09 >>DAVID SMITH: Yes, sir.
09:28:10 October 25th.

09:28:11 >> Is that one of our scheduled workshop days?
09:28:14 Good.
09:28:15 Thank you.
09:28:19 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to second what -- I have
09:28:22 the same questions that Reverend Scott, councilman
09:28:25 Scott has, and to point out when you talk about people
09:28:27 challenging it, either way, you are going to get
09:28:30 challenges, whether they are going to be from
09:28:31 minorities or non-minorities.
09:28:34 I think if we are looking at writing this policy based
09:28:39 on our fear of lawsuits, you are going to get it
09:28:44 from -- you have to be afraid of getting it from
09:28:46 whoever thinks they are not getting the right deal.
09:28:48 I don't think that's a really good basis.
09:28:51 >>DAVID SMITH: I agree we do not want to set policy on
09:28:54 the basis of any concern about being involved in
09:28:57 litigation.
09:28:57 I just want to make sure you have all the information
09:28:59 you need to make that determination as to what risk is
09:29:04 appropriate and what reward is sought.
09:29:06 So ultimately, you guys will be making that decision.
09:29:10 I will provide you all the information I have.

09:29:13 And if we make changes based upon that information,
09:29:15 then we make changes based on that information.
09:29:19 I hear you loud and clearly.
09:29:21 I understand what you want to do.
09:29:22 Personally, I don't disagree with it.
09:29:24 I'm concerned about the case law.
09:29:25 But we'll deal with that.
09:29:27 We'll talk about it and see where we are at.
09:29:31 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And again, my whole issue, in an ideal
09:29:34 world, we shouldn't need a WMBE ordinance to do this.
09:29:37 But we are not in an ideal world.
09:29:40 We have to create something so that there is equal
09:29:43 protection, everybody.
09:29:46 And that's where I am.
09:29:47 When I look at this, every business person in this
09:29:51 community should have opportunity to be able to do
09:29:53 business with the city, which is taxpayer dollars.
09:29:56 That's all I'm saying.
09:29:57 It just concerned me when I looked at these numbers
09:30:00 going through them that just to pick up the phone,
09:30:03 just getting three bids, is real poor.
09:30:08 That says a lot right there.

09:30:13 >>GWEN MILLER: We go to item number 4.
09:30:15 Karen Palus.
09:30:24 >>KAREN PALUS: Item number 4, you had asked me to
09:30:26 provide a report of all of our renovations and
09:30:32 repairs.
09:30:32 I have provided a report.
09:30:33 Everyone should have a copy of that.
09:30:35 And it listed out each of the facilities through May
09:30:39 2008.
09:30:40 So facilities that will be under repair the next six
09:30:47 to eight months.
09:30:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
09:30:49 Questions by council members?
09:30:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No.
09:30:52 That's great.
09:30:52 Thank you.
09:30:52 >>GWEN MILLER: Number 5.
09:30:59 >>DAVID SMITH: Wanted to see if there was anybody else
09:31:01 to speak to the issue.
09:31:03 By default I guess falls to me.
09:31:05 David Smith, city attorney.
09:31:06 It's my understanding that this issue has been

09:31:09 remedied, essentially the offending party had
09:31:11 indicated they were not going to put in these blowers
09:31:14 that were extremely noisy.
09:31:16 They put them in.
09:31:17 They were cited.
09:31:18 They have now taken them out, and the problem has been
09:31:21 remedied.
09:31:22 I do not know where the current status of this code
09:31:24 violation is, but it's no longer -- oh, Ernie is here.
09:31:31 Do you want to address this?
09:31:32 You know far more about it than I do.
09:31:34 >> Ernie Mueller, assistant city attorney.
09:31:38 As far as the code violation, that was brought before
09:31:40 the code board a month or so ago and they were found
09:31:46 guilty of having blowers out there, and they weren't
09:31:51 on the site plan.
09:31:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ernie, what are we talking about,
09:31:55 to give everybody a little bit of background?
09:31:57 >> this is a violation of the car wash at 3225 Euclid
09:32:01 Avenue.
09:32:02 They had put in these blowers that, number one, they
09:32:05 were not on the site plan, and, number two, they

09:32:07 were -- complaints of excessive noise.
09:32:13 So the complaints were brought to the Code Enforcement
09:32:15 Board.
09:32:16 Code Enforcement Board found them guilty of violating
09:32:20 the site plan.
09:32:21 And number two, a public nuisance.
09:32:32 I believe the blowers were removed so it was brought
09:32:34 into compliance because the blowers were removed.
09:32:36 That's where it is at this point.
09:32:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And there are a few folks who want
09:32:40 to speak.
09:32:40 Hold on one second.
09:32:42 We'll deal with that procedurally in a minute.
09:32:45 Ernie, if I could.
09:32:51 When we pulled the transcript from the rezoning -- and
09:32:53 I don't know if you have seen a copy of it.
09:32:58 Marty?
09:33:03 At the bottom of the second page, which is labeled
09:33:06 page 8, page 8 of 9, the petitioner told council, and
09:33:17 I presume under oath -- and I know everybody is honest
09:33:20 when they come in front of us -- but, anyway, says,
09:33:23 "I'm not putting an air drier out there like Mr. Blank

09:33:27 has on his."
09:33:30 That's why he's aware of the loud noise.
09:33:32 He says I use a reverse osmosis treatment system.
09:33:36 When you drive down the road the car dries spot free.
09:33:41 And so based upon that, the majority of council
09:33:47 approved this rezoning petition Z 04-128.
09:33:52 It's my understanding from these neighbors who want to
09:33:55 talk to us in a minute, even though he's taken away
09:34:00 the exterior dryers, okay, which was what he was cited
09:34:04 on because it wasn't on the cite plan as an exterior
09:34:08 thing, that he has either installed or installing
09:34:10 interior dryers, okay, contrary to the specific
09:34:19 assertion that was made on the bottom of page 8 here
09:34:22 on the transcript.
09:34:23 Now, we researched this a bit further.
09:34:25 Unfortunately, this assertion that's on the transcript
09:34:28 never made it onto the site plan, onto the PD site
09:34:32 plan.
09:34:34 Which creates a little bit of a problem for us.
09:34:37 So I just wanted to kind of frame out the context of
09:34:40 where we are today.
09:34:46 We have a project where somebody made an assertion to

09:34:50 this council, and that's why they got their rezoning,
09:34:52 and now -- well, now based upon what I'm hearing in
09:34:56 the neighborhood, I haven't seen it myself, perhaps
09:34:58 they might be going back on that assertion.
09:35:04 If council would indulge, we need to either hear from
09:35:07 these folks now while the issue is on our table or we
09:35:10 can wait until public comment.
09:35:11 I would suggest we perhaps hear from them now so we
09:35:14 can get it over with because we are going to hear from
09:35:16 them one way or another.
09:35:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:35:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And Julia, I want to hear your
09:35:22 legal opinion on this after we hear --
09:35:26 >>JULIA COLE: Very good.
09:35:27 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion to waive the rules and
09:35:30 hear comments.
09:35:31 (Motion carried).
09:35:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And I think Mr. Michelini is here
09:35:35 for the owner as well.
09:35:35 >> thank you, Mr. Dingfelder.
09:35:42 You repeated or explained -- I'm Julie Watson.
09:35:46 My property is directly behind this car wash that we

09:35:48 have been complaining about going on two years for
09:35:50 now.
09:35:50 The mistake was made going through all these meetings
09:35:54 and bothering you people with this is because simply
09:35:57 the zoning people didn't catch exactly what Mr.
09:36:01 Dingfelder said, that this man incumbent -- wasn't
09:36:04 going to put any blowers.
09:36:05 He did take the blowers down in a timely fashion as
09:36:08 described by the last Code Enforcement Board hearing.
09:36:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The exterior blowers.
09:36:13 >> yes, sir.
09:36:14 They were out there in fixed boxes but that's not the
09:36:16 point.
09:36:17 Now he has them installed again.
09:36:19 They are sticking out again.
09:36:21 They are just pipes about maybe this big around.
09:36:23 I'm sorry, I should have brought a picture but I
09:36:25 didn't think it was necessary.
09:36:26 The fact of the matter is it boils down to the fact
09:36:28 that he's reinstalled blowers which he wasn't supposed
09:36:32 to do to begin with.
09:36:33 So what I simply want done is I want somebody to say,

09:36:36 take the blowers down, because they don't belong
09:36:39 there.
09:36:40 Ms. Saul-Sena was kind enough in the original rezoning
09:36:43 to question several times about the noise.
09:36:45 Mr. Shelby was another one who questioned, in the
09:36:48 transcript, he said that since there's no noise, it
09:36:51 says here, it doesn't make sense because of the way, I
09:36:54 guess, the recording or whatever, in a noise, because
09:36:58 like he said, no noise because it doesn't have the
09:37:00 hair drier, no problems, so I will support this.
09:37:04 That's quote-unquote by Mr. Shelby.
09:37:08 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I don't know whether that's accurate
09:37:11 because I don't know whether I would be for or against
09:37:12 the ordinance.
09:37:13 It must have been somebody else.
09:37:16 >> I can only go by the transcript, sir.
09:37:18 Sorry.
09:37:19 That's where we are right now.
09:37:21 This is about three doors down from the car wash.
09:37:25 >> the issue I have is that the condition is not
09:37:29 written into the zoning conditions that there will be
09:37:31 no blowers allowed.

09:37:33 The gentleman appears to have the right to install
09:37:35 them with the approval of EPC, as long as it's not at
09:37:40 a certain noise level.
09:37:41 But the conditions were not written correctly to begin
09:37:44 with.
09:37:44 Okay.
09:37:45 And I would ask that the conditions be amended to
09:37:48 include, on the site plan and on the zoning
09:37:51 conditions, that no blowers are allowed at the car
09:37:54 wash at 4325 Euclid Avenue.
09:37:57 And if that were to occur we would have no further
09:38:00 problems.
09:38:01 This is why we allowed for the rezoning for planned
09:38:06 development to begin with.
09:38:07 We have the condition that there would be no blowers.
09:38:09 Since it was not written into the conditions he has
09:38:11 been allowed to install them, take them out, try to
09:38:15 install them again at a lower decibel level.
09:38:18 But we can't live in the neighborhood with the noise
09:38:22 as it is, and we have been fighting this fight, and we
09:38:26 shouldn't have to fight this fight because the zoning
09:38:28 conditions -- that's a very important issue, why we

09:38:32 allowed for the rezoning.
09:38:33 That was left out of the zoning conditions.
09:38:35 That's why we have to keep coming back.
09:38:36 If it was in the zoning conditions we wouldn't be here
09:38:38 right now, we would be done.
09:38:40 He would be in violation.
09:38:41 He wouldn't have the opportunity to keep putting them
09:38:43 back in and putting them back in at a lower or
09:38:46 different place or decibel level.
09:38:47 So that's what I'm asking.
09:38:49 Please amend the zoning condition to include that one
09:38:52 stipulation.
09:38:53 No blowers as it should have been from the beginning,
09:38:55 please.
09:38:58 >> Also Mr. Michelini in the transcript said there
09:39:02 would be no air dryers.
09:39:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Where is that in the transcript?
09:39:08 >> Third from the last page on the very bottom, it
09:39:12 says, Ms. Saul-Sena was questioning him at that time,
09:39:16 and the vacuum areas off to one side away from the
09:39:19 residences and the building separates the residences.
09:39:22 Do you have any idea what the -- they have to comply

09:39:28 with the city code.
09:39:28 And there are no machines by themselves like air drier
09:39:31 that you have typically?
09:39:33 And then it says, I know that they have been at least
09:39:36 in another car washes.
09:39:37 These are hand washed stalls and one automatic stall.
09:39:41 This is what the transcript says.
09:39:45 This is what it says.
09:39:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Are you all finished?
09:39:49 >> That's it.
09:39:50 We want the blowers down.
09:39:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Michelini?
09:39:54 >> Rezoning or amend the zoning conditions to include
09:39:56 that stipulation, please.
09:39:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Madam Chair, let's see whether
09:40:02 Steve wants to deal with this today.
09:40:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Michelini, do you want to speak now
09:40:05 or wait till later?
09:40:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Way suggest is we have staff and
09:40:10 legal look at this and then have Steve come back and
09:40:13 give a response.
09:40:14 >> what kind of response could he have?

09:40:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Excuse me, they can speak.
09:40:22 >>STEVE MICHELINI: First of all, I think this just
09:40:25 showed up on the agenda, and councilman's Dingfelder's
09:40:29 assistant called me yesterday and said it was coming
09:40:31 up.
09:40:32 This went to code enforcement and there was a lengthy
09:40:35 discussion about all of this, and the owner was
09:40:37 required to remove the external dryers immediately.
09:40:39 I wasn't aware that they had installed new ones.
09:40:42 One of the conditions that was stipulated at the code
09:40:46 hearing was that there was going to be a meeting with
09:40:50 their attorney and the owner and the installers, as
09:40:54 well as the building department, before new blowers
09:40:58 were turned on and reinstalled and they were also
09:41:01 going to do a decibel level inspection to make sure
09:41:03 there weren't any violations of the noise code.
09:41:06 And I think that the attorney Ernie Mueller had talked
09:41:10 about who has the control devices, who is going to do
09:41:15 the evaluation and make sure it was in compliance.
09:41:18 That hasn't occurred.
09:41:19 So that meeting in the field has not happened yet.
09:41:23 With respect to the conditions and the discussion that

09:41:26 was held at City Council, there were a variety of
09:41:29 things that were discussed.
09:41:31 The issue regarding the blowers came up as a result of
09:41:34 a competing car wash down the street, who raised the
09:41:38 issue and said, you know, these blowers are going to
09:41:41 make noise.
09:41:42 That's what the discussion was about in terms of
09:41:45 outside vending machines and exterior blowers, and
09:41:49 again it was raised by a competing car wash company.
09:41:53 And Mrs. Saul-Sena indicated in the transcript, well,
09:41:56 I'm not going to control how many ice cream shops you
09:41:58 have and I am not going to control how many car washes
09:42:01 you have or something similar to that.
09:42:03 So there was never a motion made, that we made several
09:42:08 commitments to the council that motions were not made
09:42:10 by the council to incorporate those in the site plan.
09:42:14 Subsequent to that, the neighbors raised some issues,
09:42:16 they went to code enforcement, zoning, went to the
09:42:20 hearing at the Code Enforcement Board, and placed on
09:42:24 the record that the blowers would be allowed as long
09:42:27 as they didn't violate the site plan.
09:42:29 The external issues regarding, you know, the apertures

09:42:37 that occurred on the backside of the building, that as
09:42:39 long as they complied with the other city code they
09:42:41 were allowed to have them.
09:42:42 Now, we can certainly, as I said, I didn't know that
09:42:46 the blowers had been reinstalled.
09:42:48 Owner had not contacted me, and the site inspection
09:42:51 has not occurred.
09:42:52 So we can certainly go back and figure out what's
09:42:54 going on there.
09:42:55 But that's the status as I understand it.
09:42:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I don't think I was here, and some
09:43:03 of us, I know, were not here, and I wonder, I believe
09:43:07 both sides here, the raw evidence is in that video of
09:43:13 that hearing, and then the audio of that hearing.
09:43:17 So if those two are possible, we could get a copy of
09:43:20 the audio and the video to satisfy the minds of some
09:43:25 council members who have not been here for that period
09:43:27 of time, then I think this would come to a rather
09:43:32 conclusion of fact presented before us.
09:43:34 So I would like to ask, Madam Chair, if we could get a
09:43:38 copy of that audio and the video so that we can review
09:43:43 the items.

09:43:45 And I don't know how many copies we need.
09:43:47 I think if they only go through that one hearing, it
09:43:53 would be not a two-hour video but something of a few
09:43:57 minutes and I think one audio and video could be
09:44:01 enough for all of us so we could review it and find
09:44:04 out what the facts are 100%.
09:44:06 Because what people say today, a year or two or week
09:44:09 from now, they may not remember all the facts.
09:44:11 And I want to make sure that we are very clear on
09:44:14 this, that we have all the information.
09:44:16 So I make that as a form of a motion.
09:44:18 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion.
09:44:20 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
09:44:22 If I could make a suggestion and then make a request.
09:44:26 I would like to be able to take the information that
09:44:28 Mr. Miranda is discussing, be able to review the file,
09:44:31 review legally where we are and come back with a
09:44:33 written report with you, the videotape to describe
09:44:39 what the best process is to move forward, and --
09:44:46 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I think we have one meeting off,
09:44:48 the 14th or something to that effect.
09:44:51 We'll find out.

09:44:54 >> I want to say something else.
09:44:55 >>GWEN MILLER: You can't speak.
09:44:56 You spoke.
09:44:57 That's it.
09:44:59 We have a motion for three weeks.
09:45:01 All in favor of that motion say Aye.
09:45:04 Opposed Nay.
09:45:04 [Motion carried]
09:45:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I want to say I appreciate
09:45:08 everybody looking into this.
09:45:09 I think -- and Charlie, this goes to what you said
09:45:12 about people speaking the truth at that microphone.
09:45:14 And I think they need to be held to it either legally
09:45:18 or morally or ethically one way or the other.
09:45:24 I'm glad we are going to follow up on this.
09:45:26 >>GWEN MILLER: We go to item number 6.
09:45:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Julia Cole?
09:45:42 Not everyone on council is an attorney.
09:45:44 A and what we need for legal to do at our zoning
09:45:49 hearings, when you hear and pass on council's voice we
09:45:54 need you to raise your hand if our count isn't being
09:45:58 reflected.

09:46:00 On PDs, on-site plans, and say, excuse me, you need
09:46:04 to clarify that, you need to direct it.
09:46:06 Because this strikes me as a possible example of
09:46:11 council's intent not being memorialized on the site
09:46:14 plan.
09:46:16 I don't know until we review the tape.
09:46:19 But from this date forth and forever more if you hear
09:46:22 us trying to get something down and we don't do an
09:46:24 adequate job of it because we don't provide complete
09:46:27 enough direction, we need our legal department to
09:46:30 caution us on that.
09:46:31 This is for Mr. Shelby, also.
09:46:33 And step in and say you all need to be more specific,
09:46:36 you need to be more directive, you need to make sure
09:46:39 this is put down properly.
09:46:41 Thank you.
09:46:41 >>JULIA COLE: Yes, ma'am.
09:46:43 And the one thing I do want to say is with our new
09:46:45 process, I think it has become easier to ensure that
09:46:48 these notes are placed on-site plans, because with
09:46:52 your discussion, with staff -- what staff has been
09:46:55 doing is saying are these notes you intend to add

09:46:57 between first and second reading?
09:46:59 I agree with you, and I believe that it will become
09:47:05 more clear.
09:47:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Shelby?
09:47:08 >> (off microphone) I'm very cognizant of the fact I
09:47:19 do not want to steer or give direction to council.
09:47:22 So I listen for that.
09:47:23 And I'm very cognizant of it.
09:47:26 Sometimes council members chime in and say is that a
09:47:31 motion?
09:47:32 But I want to say I'm very cautious I sit here as a
09:47:35 neutral and I don't want to give any perception that I
09:47:39 am suggesting to council that they do something that
09:47:41 they would not otherwise do.
09:47:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
09:47:44 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Administrator, public works,
09:47:52 utility services.
09:47:55 There was a request from council to provide some
09:47:57 information regarding two-waying of Howard and Armenia
09:48:02 and Tampa and Florida streets.
09:48:03 I have written a memo back to the council and provided
09:48:06 a copy of a PowerPoint presentation.

09:48:10 There are two feasibility studies that were conducted
09:48:12 by the Florida Department of Transportation in this
09:48:14 regard, and I have those, and they are available to
09:48:16 you if you would like to look at them.
09:48:18 Basically, I am just available to answer your
09:48:21 questions.
09:48:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Questions by council members?
09:48:25 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Steve.
09:48:27 I originally made that motion because we wanted to
09:48:29 hear from an urban planning perspective.
09:48:32 And we had asked Wilson Stair to come in.
09:48:37 I'm on the MPO and the livable roadways committee.
09:48:41 And we have that presentation from FDOT last week, I
09:48:45 think, or might have been the week before.
09:48:47 The week before.
09:48:49 And the reaction of everyone on that committee, I
09:48:52 think we had about ten people on the committee which
09:48:56 we didn't feel that the FDOT study really answered a
09:49:01 lot of the questions about whether we should do this.
09:49:05 And it was clear to us, and we realized that you and
09:49:09 the administration had accepted the FDOT's take on it
09:49:14 and that's why we wanted to look at it from a broader

09:49:16 perspective so that we could -- basically, what FDOT
09:49:20 said was, if we two-wayed those pairs of streets it
09:49:24 would slow traffic, and there would be longer waits at
09:49:30 intersections, and at Howard and Armenia there was the
09:49:34 question of the ramp.
09:49:35 So that's another thing that we haven't heard of.
09:49:38 I'd like to hear from them or from you, a cost, a
09:49:44 figure of what it would cost if we did have to change
09:49:46 those ramps.
09:49:47 The other thing that I thought we could discuss,
09:49:50 because this came up at the MPO meeting, was there
09:49:54 were some other alternatives with partially two waying
09:50:00 some of those.
09:50:01 It felt like it hadn't been looked at from an economic
09:50:04 development standpoint, from a safety standpoint,
09:50:07 because what FDOT considers a problem slowing traffic
09:50:14 through these neighborhoods is a plus because these
09:50:17 streets do not feel safe to them.
09:50:19 And the other thing, just the economic development
09:50:25 perspective wasn't even considered.
09:50:27 And I know several of the neighborhoods had asked --
09:50:31 this came from a question of the neighborhoods who

09:50:34 would like to have those as two-way streets.
09:50:38 I think we haven't really seen a cost benefit
09:50:40 analysis.
09:50:41 It may be there.
09:50:45 But the public hasn't heard it and we haven't heard
09:50:47 it.
09:50:48 And I don't think council -- I saw the PowerPoint
09:50:51 presentation because I'm on the MPO and on that
09:50:54 particular committee.
09:50:55 But I don't know that we have even had that report of
09:50:58 council from FDOT, have we?
09:51:02 No.
09:51:06 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: I don't have numbers of costs of
09:51:08 changing.
09:51:09 It would have to be a pretty significant traffic
09:51:12 analysis, and there may have to be additional ramps,
09:51:16 in addition to what there currently is now.
09:51:18 I don't know that.
09:51:19 So I don't have a price to tell you what it would cost
09:51:24 with regard to the interstate of Howard and Armenia.
09:51:28 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to see that from them,
09:51:32 too, an actual diagram of what they need to do to

09:51:35 change that.
09:51:35 I just feel like we didn't get all the information we
09:51:38 need to really study this.
09:51:40 It's an issue that's important to the city.
09:51:42 So West Tampa, Tampa Heights, Seminole Heights.
09:51:46 And I know that we also wanted to hear from them and
09:51:51 their reaction.
09:51:51 There may be people who don't want it to be two wayed.
09:51:55 So hopefully we'll hear from them today.
09:51:59 I don't know, chairwoman.
09:52:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Mrs. Saul-Sena?
09:52:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just wanted to reinforce what Ms.
09:52:07 Mulhern said.
09:52:09 And I think there's a situation between Howard and
09:52:11 Armenia is different from the Tampa/florida
09:52:18 combination.
09:52:18 But particularly in West Tampa I feel like the
09:52:23 resistance from the Department of Transportation is
09:52:26 they don't want to be slowed up because the interstate
09:52:29 improvements have been a long time in the planning.
09:52:31 But the reality is the construction isn't imminent.
09:52:33 We are in the demolition stage.

09:52:35 And it will be, according to some people at the
09:52:39 meeting, it wouldn't be that much of a change to
09:52:43 accommodate the two waying.
09:52:45 They felt that some sign changes would need to take
09:52:48 place.
09:52:49 But the basic lane configuration, the ramp
09:52:53 configuration, could remain pretty constant.
09:52:56 I don't feel that this question has really been taken
09:53:00 seriously and looked at carefully.
09:53:02 We see a lot of redevelopment in West Tampa.
09:53:05 It's very exciting.
09:53:06 We are seeing it primarily in the residential areas.
09:53:09 Reason we haven't seen it on Howard and Armenia,
09:53:11 according to many urban designers, is because of the
09:53:15 one-way status.
09:53:16 And I think this is something we need to take a
09:53:18 serious look at.
09:53:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Mulhern?
09:53:23 >>MARY MULHERN: Sorry, I'm taking another opportunity
09:53:25 but I'll try to be quick.
09:53:27 There are also some examples of cities in Florida that
09:53:31 have done this.

09:53:32 And I understand -- and I need to do more research on
09:53:35 this, and I would like us to look at Lakeland is
09:53:38 pretty much two way I go all their one-way streets
09:53:42 downtown and it has resulted in immediate improvement
09:53:46 in the quality of life and in their economic growth in
09:53:50 this downtown that was really pretty sad has really
09:53:53 been regenerated by that.
09:53:55 So I think we need to just look a little deeper at
09:53:57 what the benefits would be.
09:54:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
09:54:10 Mr. Miranda.
09:54:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you for recognizing me.
09:54:14 You are a very eloquent speaker.
09:54:17 Gracias.
09:54:17 Armenia and Howard are particularly different from a
09:54:22 lot of streets.
09:54:23 Let me explain something as all of you know by now.
09:54:25 It wasn't like that originally.
09:54:29 Howard went in an area to the right of where it's at
09:54:32 now, the point of Tampa Bay and Armenia, went 24-24
09:54:38 Tampa Bay Boulevard came on, the configuration of the
09:54:40 street was changed, and you have a Y.

09:54:44 And every time I think of Y I think of Johnny Carson,
09:54:47 fork in the road.
09:54:48 And when you look at that, if you make both of those
09:54:50 streets two way, in the intersection of Tampa Bay,
09:54:55 Howard, and Armenia, what you are going to have there
09:55:00 is going to be one real big traffic problem, at lot of
09:55:08 them, because Armenia is already a two-lane, till it
09:55:12 meets the Y and it becomes a one-lane for various
09:55:15 reasons, because if not you would have a junk yard
09:55:18 there with all the cars you are going to have.
09:55:20 The same thing with Howard.
09:55:21 It's a one-way because when it meets Armenia it
09:55:24 becomes -- it dead-ends there.
09:55:28 At that point, another area, the other side.
09:55:34 So it's very unique.
09:55:35 Those streets do not have a grid, those two.
09:55:40 Because Armenia does have its north-south grid, but
09:55:45 Habana does not.
09:55:46 It moves and it turns to the west where it meets up
09:55:50 with Armenia and Tampa Bay.
09:55:52 And it's going to be very difficult to make those
09:55:55 streets two-way because you are going to have a lot of

09:55:58 lanes meeting in a location where it's going to create
09:56:02 a real havoc, and I am not in favor of a roundabout in
09:56:07 the area that I represent.
09:56:08 Thank you, Ms. Saul-Sena.
09:56:09 I look forward but I can see to the side.
09:56:13 And I have an eye inside my right ear.
09:56:16 But what I'm saying is, I'm just trying to be
09:56:19 realistic about what's going on in West Tampa.
09:56:22 There is a lot of development.
09:56:23 There is a lot of change.
09:56:25 What that corridor or business needs more than two
09:56:28 lane roads, it needs parking lots.
09:56:30 I think that would be the main thing to have parking.
09:56:34 It would have been great if the streetcar lines are
09:56:37 still there.
09:56:38 They are not.
09:56:38 So I can't think about what happened yesterday,
09:56:45 yesteryears.
09:56:46 I think if somehow your department can work in getting
09:56:50 pocket lots, little small lots, it would help
09:56:52 businesses an awful lot.
09:56:54 Because you can two-lane anything you want.

09:56:57 People can't park, they won't stay, they won't shop.
09:56:59 And that's how I reviewed and remembered the old and
09:57:03 the new.
09:57:04 Thank you, Madam Chair.
09:57:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Any other questions by council members?
09:57:08 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Again, I think there are
09:57:12 opportunities to help deal with the traffic, slow the
09:57:16 traffic down, in the current configuration.
09:57:18 I also -- we have begun discussions about trying to
09:57:21 identify pocket parking lots.
09:57:24 So we have heard that, and again we are pursuing that.
09:57:30 If it's your desire to have someone from FDOT or
09:57:33 someone involved in doing the feasibility studies come
09:57:36 and explain that to the council and give you a
09:57:38 presentation, I'll be glad to pursue that as well.
09:57:46 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to have the specific
09:57:48 question that I had answered, but what we really
09:57:52 wanted was a broader discussion, not just from that
09:57:57 perspective up the freeway.
09:58:03 And, now, I just feel like we can't -- when we have
09:58:10 done it in the past it seems it hasn't been the best
09:58:12 thing for Tampa when we let the interstate decide

09:58:15 their needs, decide how our city was going to develop.
09:58:18 So I think that's just not enough for me.
09:58:22 So what I would really like to hear from is maybe the
09:58:26 MPO.
09:58:26 Maybe we could get Steinback or a planner come talk to
09:58:35 us about it.
09:58:38 >> I think it would also be valuable to hear from
09:58:40 Wilson Stair, the urban design person.
09:58:42 I think what we are talking about is community
09:58:43 building, not just transportation.
09:58:46 And I think it also might be interesting to hear from
09:58:52 the gentleman from Hartline, Ed Crawford, who has
09:58:56 looked at this extensively.
09:58:57 So, Mary, you're the transportation chair.
09:59:01 If you want to do a special discussion meeting, if not
09:59:06 at a council meeting or some kind of special present
09:59:08 to council.
09:59:09 >>MARY MULHERN: It should be a public hearing because
09:59:13 I know there are people here right now from the
09:59:15 neighborhood who want to talk about this.
09:59:17 So it should be -- it could be a workshop on one of
09:59:22 our regular workshop days.

09:59:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Or a special discussion meeting on
09:59:27 another day.
09:59:28 You're the chairman.
09:59:29 You do what you think would be most effective.
09:59:31 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to do it where we have
09:59:34 the best opportunity for people to be here.
09:59:36 I think we are kind of used to Thursdays.
09:59:38 As long as we do it on a Thursday, in an afternoon
09:59:41 workshop, whatever the next one that isn't booked up
09:59:45 already.
09:59:46 Because we already have Tuesday.
09:59:50 How about the next one after that?
10:00:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We have a couple in November.
10:00:01 But there's another Thursday beyond that.
10:00:03 But I think --
10:00:06 >>MARY MULHERN: I'll look at the calendar.
10:00:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you want it on November 29, there
10:00:14 are four items under staff reports unfinished business
10:00:18 which are normally short.
10:00:19 There are no workshops.
10:00:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Excuse me, I'm positive that's not
10:00:23 correct.

10:00:24 There were very complex things that we said he would
10:00:26 don't have time to do in October, let's do in
10:00:28 November.
10:00:29 I'm certain of that.
10:00:32 >> I'm just relying on what was provided.
10:00:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I know that.
10:00:37 >> That's fine.
10:00:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Mulhern, we'll come back later.
10:00:41 >>MARY MULHERN: We'll come back with a date, this
10:00:43 afternoon.
10:00:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes, we'll come back later.
10:00:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to hear from the
10:00:48 public on this.
10:00:49 Or do you want to wait --
10:00:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Wait till the public comment.
10:00:52 We have people waiting.
10:00:53 We are going to go to Mrs. Shirley Foxx-Knowles to do
10:00:57 7, 8, 9 and 10.
10:01:04 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Shirley Foxx-Knowles, city
10:01:07 clerk.
10:01:09 As the chair noticed, I am here regarding 7, 8, 9 and
10:01:15 10, the ARC, HPC Planning Commission, and civil

10:01:19 service.
10:01:20 First of all, the ARC, we have two applicants -- well,
10:01:27 we had two applicants and one vacancy.
10:01:29 As you noted, I prepared a summary sheet.
10:01:34 And we only have one applicant and one vacancy right
10:01:37 now.
10:01:38 And that applicant is Mr. Peter John Carlin.
10:01:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Is Mr. Carlin here?
10:01:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Is Mr. Peter Carlin here?
10:01:53 >> he was asked --
10:01:58 >>GWEN MILLER: To be here?
10:01:59 >> yes.
10:01:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you want to vote or do you want to
10:02:02 see and have him come back another time?
10:02:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
10:02:07 I understand -- I did some research.
10:02:09 Is Mr. Carlin here?
10:02:17 He has an issue of conflict before one of our boards
10:02:20 about an illegal demolition and I think I would prefer
10:02:24 putting this off for two weeks, readvertising.
10:02:28 I understand that the clerk contacted the local AIA.
10:02:31 I contacted the local AIA.

10:02:34 They didn't do a great job of getting the word out.
10:02:36 I will personally call the five largest firms in town,
10:02:41 tell everybody and their brother that we have some
10:02:43 openings here.
10:02:43 But I really would be more comfortable making a motion
10:02:46 to put this off, to allow two more weeks for
10:02:53 applicants to apply, and then for this to appear on
10:02:56 our schedule at the end of the month.
10:02:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
10:02:59 (Motion carried).
10:03:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Are those dates clear?
10:03:08 Thank you.
10:03:09 Two weeks more for people to apply and then the
10:03:11 subsequent Thursday the candidates will appear before
10:03:14 council and we'll vote.
10:03:19 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: With his withdrawal we don't
10:03:22 have an applicant for the Historic Preservation
10:03:23 Commission.
10:03:27 You want to readvertise that one also?
10:03:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
10:03:31 I will again get on the phone and tell people this
10:03:34 vacancy is there.

10:03:34 I think summer is a tough time, people are away, but
10:03:39 hopefully everybody will be back after Labor Day.
10:03:41 I always feel more comfortable having a variety of
10:03:43 applicants to choose from.
10:03:44 I move that we advertise for two weeks and then we
10:03:47 vote the third week after that.
10:03:49 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
10:03:51 (Motion carried)
10:03:54 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: That brings us to the Planning
10:03:55 Commission.
10:03:57 We have eight applicants and two vacancies.
10:04:00 We have two incumbents.
10:04:03 David foster and Vivien kitchen.
10:04:06 If you would like to hear from them first, then the
10:04:08 rest of them.
10:04:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Go ahead.
10:04:11 >> David foster.
10:04:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Three minutes.
10:04:35 Go ahead, Mr. Foster.
10:04:37 >> good morning my name is David foster and I'm a
10:04:40 resident of Tampa Heights.
10:04:43 It has been one year since I stood in this exact same

10:04:47 place.
10:04:48 Mr. Jim Beeler had resigned and left a vacancy on the
10:04:53 Planning Commission and the City Council at that time
10:04:55 appointed me to serve out the remainder of his term.
10:05:01 I'm here today to ask for your consideration to be
10:05:04 reappointed to the Planning Commission.
10:05:05 Serving on the Planning Commission has afforded many
10:05:08 opportunities of learning the policies and procedures
10:05:12 of the commission, the privilege of working with the
10:05:14 other Planning Commissioners, the collaboration and
10:05:17 support of Mr. Bob Hunter, the Executive Director, the
10:05:21 Planning Commission staff who were always available
10:05:24 for additional training and professional support.
10:05:26 And by publicly representing the residents of the City
10:05:29 of Tampa.
10:05:30 This has been an awesome experience.
10:05:34 What have I learned?
10:05:35 It takes a great deal of time and preparation for the
10:05:38 regular meetings, the public hearings, and the
10:05:40 committee meetings.
10:05:41 And not only required the commitment to be prepared,
10:05:44 attend and participate in each of these, but also be

10:05:48 cognizant and sensitive to the public's interest.
10:05:53 By allowing me the opportunity to return to the
10:05:56 commission, the work in which we have been involved
10:05:58 will continue.
10:06:01 During the past year the commissions and staff have
10:06:03 been reevaluating the elements of the comprehensive
10:06:06 plan.
10:06:08 With a masters degree in architecture, I have found
10:06:11 the planning exercises for the City of Tampa,
10:06:14 Hillsborough County, Temple Terrace, and Plant City
10:06:20 for the next 25 years, and as far out as the next 50
10:06:23 years, but challenging and exciting.
10:06:27 This morning, I would sincerely appreciate that each
10:06:32 of you would consider me for the reappointment to the
10:06:34 Planning Commission, but most of all, I would like to
10:06:38 thank each of you for the privilege of service to the
10:06:40 City of Tampa.
10:06:42 Thank you.
10:06:48 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Thank you.
10:06:49 The next applicant is miss Vivian Kitchen.
10:07:00 >> good morning.
10:07:01 For the record I'm Vivian Kitchen, and I am one of

10:07:05 your present commissioners, one of your four
10:07:10 commissioners on the Planning Commission.
10:07:15 And I am seeking reappointment.
10:07:19 And I guess the question is why?
10:07:23 I did think about this.
10:07:24 And as I thought, I remembered a conversation that I
10:07:28 had with one of you at a community meeting.
10:07:35 I was vigorously and passionately speaking about an
10:07:38 issue that would improve the quality of life in my
10:07:44 community.
10:07:44 And of a that meeting the person said to me, you ought
10:07:48 to apply and serve your sitting on one of the boards
10:07:56 or commissions.
10:07:58 But the person gave some very good thoughts, concerns
10:08:03 about why I should do that.
10:08:05 And as a result, saying one thing that stuck with me,
10:08:10 we need people like you.
10:08:14 So that is one of the reasons I'm applying.
10:08:16 And the other one is very simple.
10:08:20 There is unfinished work to be done.
10:08:25 Our staff has worked with your staff, the mayor, as
10:08:29 well as the citizens, to improve the quality of life

10:08:32 for all of us.
10:08:33 We want to continue to do that.
10:08:37 Mr. Foster has already cited some of the work that we
10:08:42 are doing, so, therefore, I won't repeat that work.
10:08:48 But I will say or cite two examples of work that we
10:08:54 have done.
10:08:55 We recommend this as overlay for South Howard, and we
10:09:03 also developed a community plan which was the
10:09:06 designation for my community, East Tampa, to be a
10:09:12 redevelopment area.
10:09:15 But there is still unfinished work.
10:09:21 I'm excited about the 2015 vision that we will be
10:09:28 working on.
10:09:29 I want to be a part of it.
10:09:32 And as was said to me, we need people like you.
10:09:36 Thank you.
10:09:47 Please excuse me, I have a medical appointment.
10:09:49 Thank you.
10:09:55 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: The next candidate will be
10:09:57 Laura Jill Buford.
10:10:08 >> good morning, council.
10:10:09 Good to see all of you again.

10:10:11 It's been a couple months but I am back.
10:10:13 You have encouraged me to participate in my community,
10:10:18 almost all of you have encouraged me to do that and I
10:10:22 am here today to initiate some support from you in the
10:10:29 voice of the Planning Commission.
10:10:30 Some of my past experience, I have done three terms as
10:10:35 the president of the civic association down in Port
10:10:37 Tampa, Port Tampa is in its second decade of
10:10:40 redevelopment that has all kinds of concerns,
10:10:45 industrial, community, commercial, we have
10:10:47 environmental protection in picnic island, and we have
10:10:50 been addressing these issues for the last couple of
10:10:52 decades.
10:10:54 And as a leader, I have seen all of these.
10:10:58 Some of my meetings were for months and months
10:11:02 developers coming to our neighborhood.
10:11:03 I have also worked on the sustainable communities
10:11:06 demonstration project.
10:11:08 We worked on Hope VI before it became Hope VI.
10:11:12 I have been part of the greenways committee prior to
10:11:16 the City of Tampa having a greenways committee, and
10:11:20 helped to develop that committee and the master plan

10:11:22 which the city has now.
10:11:23 Prior to that I was part of the Hillsborough County
10:11:25 greenways committee.
10:11:27 I have a long stand with greenways and trails and
10:11:30 livable, sustainable communities.
10:11:33 You were recently talking about two waying the
10:11:36 streets, and Mrs. Saul-Sena, you are absolutely
10:11:38 correct, it's not just transportation, it's building
10:11:40 livable communities in our neighborhoods -- and our
10:11:45 neighborhoods will flourish not necessarily in turning
10:11:46 those streets around, but if we can look at them and
10:11:49 find ways to incorporate that and make those
10:11:52 neighborhoods stronger and livable, that's what it's
10:11:55 all about.
10:11:57 I have also worked at the CHD for the MPO so I know
10:12:02 just how important transportation is to the
10:12:04 development of any community, whether it be in the
10:12:07 county, Plant City, my neighborhood, your
10:12:09 neighborhood, the transportation and development go
10:12:14 hand in hand.
10:12:15 I feel that I have a lot to bring to the table.
10:12:22 I have a natural tendency to serve my neighborhood and

10:12:26 I'm here to do that now.
10:12:28 That's all I have to say.
10:12:29 If you have any questions I will be more than happy to
10:12:30 answer your questions.
10:12:40 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Thank you.
10:12:41 Next candidate, Mr. Eddie H. Diehl.
10:12:59 >> Good morning, council.
10:13:02 As a long standing citizen, born and raised here in
10:13:05 Tampa, I have been involved with many activities and
10:13:08 government and/or public sector.
10:13:11 One of the things that I stress in my desire to be on
10:13:19 this particular board is the ability to give an
10:13:22 opinion that will sometimes be controversial.
10:13:27 My background has been in real estate development, but
10:13:30 my background has also been as a citizen of the
10:13:33 community, and also dealing with technology.
10:13:37 I believe that a lot of the planning that needs to
10:13:41 take place has to take into account technology.
10:13:44 The discussions that technology needs to be addressed
10:13:48 and a lot of issues that come up within the Planning
10:13:50 Commission, the utilization of the technologies, so
10:13:53 forth, needs to be debated.

10:13:56 You have got two fine candidates.
10:14:00 I have nothing to discredit them with or everyone
10:14:03 attempt to.
10:14:03 I'm sure they have done a great job.
10:14:05 But I believe that adding my expertise in technology,
10:14:10 my expertise of many years of dealing with community
10:14:13 issues, former chairman of the board of adjustment, I
10:14:18 dealt with both sides, and I dealt with the
10:14:23 constituent size and I have dealt with the legal side.
10:14:25 So with that, I only offer my time, my expertise and
10:14:30 my technology.
10:14:33 And if I can be of service to you, I'm here.
10:14:36 Thank you.
10:14:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:14:41 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Thank you.
10:14:41 Our next candidate is Mr. Ed Franklin Guinta.
10:14:52 >> good morning, council members.
10:14:53 Thank you for the opportunity to be here this morning.
10:14:55 I'm currently a member of the Planning Commission,
10:14:58 have been an appointee of Hillsborough County.
10:15:00 Since my appointment, I moved to the City of Tampa and
10:15:03 I'm now seeking an appointment to this council.

10:15:08 I bring a very unique perspective as a Planning
10:15:10 Commissioner to that commission.
10:15:14 I originally applied for the Planning Commission due
10:15:16 to a personal experience there.
10:15:19 I went before them for a plan amendment, left with a
10:15:24 unanimous no vote, came before this board, and
10:15:26 received a unanimous yes vote.
10:15:30 That strikes me as very odd, that there was a problem.
10:15:34 And the solutions and the help that I am able to bring
10:15:36 and the perspective that I am able to bring to the
10:15:39 Planning Commission is one of a real estate developer
10:15:42 and business owner and as a third generation resident
10:15:45 of this area.
10:15:47 Of the balance.
10:15:48 It's one thing when you are sitting writing rules and
10:15:51 you don't understand how the rules that you are
10:15:52 writing or the code that you are writing actually are
10:15:56 applied.
10:15:56 And I am able to bring that perspective to the
10:15:59 Planning Commission.
10:16:01 I have enjoyed my four years there.
10:16:03 I look forward to serving another four.

10:16:04 And I would appreciate your consideration.
10:16:06 Thank you.
10:16:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:16:12 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Thank you.
10:16:14 The next candidate is Mr. Decalm Calagium.
10:16:27 >> good morning, members of the council.
10:16:29 Thank you for the opportunity to be here today.
10:16:34 I want to talk a little bit about my background and my
10:16:37 desire to be on this commission.
10:16:39 And as a resident of the City of Tampa over 23 years
10:16:43 and seen the city change quite a bit, and I see the
10:16:46 city changing a lot.
10:16:48 As a member of the commission, I think we need to have
10:16:50 a vision about how to make the city a more livable
10:16:57 place.
10:16:57 As we know the paradigm is changing, the paradigm
10:17:00 about how we design cities, how we design communities,
10:17:03 how we link them together is changing all the time.
10:17:05 And the discussion earlier this morning about Armenia,
10:17:11 and Howard Avenue, that's a small example of how we
10:17:16 are thinking is changing all the time.
10:17:19 I have been involved in the engineering business.

10:17:21 I'm an engineer who for the last 17 years I was
10:17:26 engaged in planning and protection, working for the
10:17:32 county as well as providing civil engineering services
10:17:35 for land development services.
10:17:39 I have been engaged on part parts of the equation, a
10:17:43 balanced approach protecting the environment and also
10:17:45 create economic involvement for development of the
10:17:49 city.
10:17:51 And I bring that attitude to have a balanced approach
10:17:58 in our decision making.
10:18:04 That's all I have to say.
10:18:05 As a stakeholder of the city, I feel like it's my time
10:18:11 to provide back to the community and be engaged in the
10:18:15 decision-making process.
10:18:16 And thank you.
10:18:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:18:24 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Thank you.
10:18:24 The next candidate is Mr. Jeffrey Howard Kramer.
10:18:30 >> Good morning.
10:18:38 Toward the end here, everybody has stolen all the buzz
10:18:41 words already.
10:18:42 So I am a resident of Tampa, eight years.

10:18:48 I'm a research faculty at the center for urban
10:18:51 transportation research at University of South
10:18:53 Florida.
10:18:55 And I looked through the list, looked at their
10:18:58 credentials.
10:18:59 You have a tough decision.
10:19:00 Everybody is qualified.
10:19:01 You have heard them all talk about important issues.
10:19:04 So why me?
10:19:06 Why me?
10:19:08 And what makes me special in this case?
10:19:14 I'm the trained planner.
10:19:15 And I have been working as a planner since POS 94, and
10:19:19 I am working on planning legislation prior to that.
10:19:22 And what training and planning means, Lou at things
10:19:25 from a whole Liss tick perspective.
10:19:28 It's drilled into your head.
10:19:29 Look at everything from how it works and systems, and
10:19:32 they are integrated.
10:19:35 My particular specialty is transportation.
10:19:37 But, you know, planning and transportation as you have
10:19:41 heard today, economic development is community,

10:19:48 quality of life in your community, and why is that
10:19:51 important for you to try to have some of that
10:19:54 perspective on the Planning Commission?
10:19:57 I think primarily because Tampa is at a crossroads.
10:20:04 Many of you ran on a platform of smart growth, managed
10:20:09 growth.
10:20:09 And I think we can choose to continue to grow, look
10:20:14 like Atlanta, or we can choose to, here's the buzz
10:20:17 word, be sustainable, have transit oriented
10:20:20 development, and if we just look at the paper of last
10:20:25 week, we had a historic preservation issue in Hyde
10:20:27 Park, you have cross-county growth management, issues
10:20:33 at the Pasco-New Tampa line and Hillsborough County
10:20:36 line.
10:20:37 What else have we seen?
10:20:39 Community cohesion issues, the two ways we were
10:20:44 talking about, economic development, school growth,
10:20:47 water growth, so I think that planner's train inning
10:20:53 that I can give you to you would help you look into
10:20:58 the future, not only of Tampa, but the region,
10:21:01 because, let's face it, we are all one region.
10:21:04 And with that I would like to just ask for your

10:21:07 support.
10:21:08 I appreciate your time.
10:21:15 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Thank you.
10:21:16 Next candidate is Ms. Laura E. Lockett.
10:21:27 >> good morning, council.
10:21:29 Laura Lockett, a resident of Hyde Park, and at the end
10:21:35 of the list.
10:21:37 Literally every buzz word has been taken.
10:21:39 I want to just give you a few minutes of my background
10:21:42 relative to this opportunity, which I very much
10:21:45 appreciate.
10:21:47 I'm a partner in the government practice group, awe
10:21:51 law firm of Carlton Fields here in Tampa, my primary
10:21:54 practice is environmental issues, particularly related
10:21:56 to commercial real estate and redevelopment of
10:21:59 contaminated property, brownfield redevelopment, urban
10:22:05 in-fill related issues, industrial permitting.
10:22:07 As I noted in my application, I have been in
10:22:11 leadership roles in the American Bar association, real
10:22:14 property section for the last 12 years in various
10:22:16 environmental committees, and more recently
10:22:19 supervisory capacity over committees dealing with land

10:22:23 use, environmental and condemnation issues, looking at
10:22:27 cutting edge, new developments and all those areas
10:22:34 I have been honored to serve other HPC board ending in
10:22:40 2006 including chairing that commission.
10:22:43 During that time, this is, I think, my style, to do
10:22:45 more than just show up and vote, work with staff on a
10:22:52 number of very important issues, came up very early on
10:22:54 with the streamline demolition permitting process,
10:22:57 which was a big hit with the development community,
10:23:01 which you wouldn't necessarily think of it being
10:23:03 related to historic preservation.
10:23:06 More importantly, hundreds of hours working on
10:23:08 Historic Preservation Commission ordinances over those
10:23:12 years.
10:23:13 Although my term was over, I continued to work closely
10:23:16 with David Smith, Julia Cole, Rebecca Kert, and staff,
10:23:22 through all those very difficult periods, to bring the
10:23:25 final ARC and HPC ordinance to you, that I think have
10:23:31 already been approved.
10:23:32 And that collaboration is, I think, of my staff.
10:23:41 We have been working with Julia on the TDR process
10:23:43 that's going to come in front of you that's going to

10:23:46 help shape your growth and I have been fortunate to
10:23:48 serve on the CAC, the NCO, and the joint regional CAC
10:23:51 as well, and to get an idea of the transportation
10:23:54 challenges and initiatives that are coming before you.
10:23:59 There is no doubt that we have incredible challenges
10:24:03 coming in front of us with respect to managing growth.
10:24:06 And I think the challenge for the Planning Commission
10:24:07 is, are we going to be proactive?
10:24:13 Or reactive and get ahead of that.
10:24:15 Certainly the transportation issues have to be key for
10:24:17 that effort.
10:24:20 We have got to create sustainable, greener and livable
10:24:25 communities, and the planning process is absolute key.
10:24:29 I think my legal background, my collaborative style,
10:24:35 and demonstrating work ethic would well serve the city
10:24:39 and I would be a strong advocate for the city's
10:24:41 position.
10:24:41 And I would be honored to serve you.
10:24:44 Thank you for your consideration.
10:24:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:24:52 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Council, thank you to all of
10:24:54 the candidates.

10:24:55 We have ballots available, if you will vote for two,
10:24:58 and please sign your ballot.
10:25:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It would be okay if we as council
10:25:05 members said something before we vote?
10:25:08 I would like to.
10:25:09 I have to tell you that I have worked specifically
10:25:16 with the staff and with Laura Lockett on the
10:25:20 preservation ordinance for years.
10:25:21 She is so smart.
10:25:25 She is so hard working.
10:25:28 She is so dedicated.
10:25:29 And I know she would bring that to the Planning
10:25:30 Commission.
10:25:31 And this is a time when the Planning Commission really
10:25:33 needs strong voices from the City of Tampa.
10:25:37 And I just would really encourage my colleagues to
10:25:40 support her.
10:25:41 This is tough.
10:25:41 We have got excellent, excellent candidates who are
10:25:46 all with different talents, talented and have skill
10:25:49 sets.
10:25:50 I think that she's particularly out standing.

10:25:52 And at this time the City of Tampa needs a strong
10:25:55 voice like hers.
10:26:06 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair.
10:26:08 I'm not going to speak for any particular one
10:26:10 candidate.
10:26:11 To me this is a very difficult task.
10:26:13 I think all the candidates that spoke before us, I
10:26:18 think there's eight of them, certainly repeat their
10:26:23 information and their background and their desire to
10:26:24 serve.
10:26:25 In fact, I wouldn't mind any one of them representing,
10:26:30 be a member of Tampa City Council in the next
10:26:32 election, which is just a few days away, not too long.
10:26:37 About three years or so, a little bit longer.
10:26:40 But in stretch of time that's a very short period.
10:26:45 So, unfortunately, we have a dilemma to make with
10:26:50 eight very qualified individuals.
10:26:52 Only two come back.
10:26:54 I'm a little concerned about the process we have,
10:26:56 inasmuch as if you live in the city, you can't serve
10:27:00 as a representative of the county.
10:27:01 I think that's kind of baloney.

10:27:05 Baloney is a new word I will use today.
10:27:08 But when you look at the makeup of the other
10:27:10 government, very few have come from the City of Tampa.
10:27:13 And I'm not trying to change that either.
10:27:18 But what I say, it's hard to understand why somebody,
10:27:22 the City of Tampa, city of Temple Terrace, Plant City,
10:27:26 we are all in Hillsborough County.
10:27:27 It makes no difference to me where you come from if
10:27:30 you represent a board called the Planning Commission,
10:27:33 which is really all of Hillsborough County.
10:27:35 And those things I don't think will ever be resolved
10:27:38 and I don't think they will ever be changed, and am I
10:27:42 looking to change it?
10:27:43 Possibly.
10:27:43 But I know the odds are much greater than I care to
10:27:46 fight for, because I won't win.
10:27:48 So, again, I want to thank all of you for peering.
10:27:52 And you're very qualified, not only to be in the
10:27:55 Planning Commission but to be an elected official.
10:27:58 I encourage all of you to seek public office in the
10:28:02 next city election.
10:28:03 Maybe the county don't want you but I do.

10:28:05 Thank you.
10:28:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Reverend Scott.
10:28:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: All these candidates are-oh meet all
10:28:15 the qualifications, they were qualified.
10:28:17 However, one of the things I try to really look at in
10:28:20 the makeup of a board and that's diversity.
10:28:23 It's very important when we look at our community how
10:28:25 diverse our community is so it's for me to try to make
10:28:28 sure that whatever board we have that we make sure
10:28:30 those T board reflects that diversity in the
10:28:32 community.
10:28:33 And I'm always very cognizant of that.
10:28:36 And I will say, I believe that Ms. Kitchen will be and
10:28:42 continue to be the only African-American to serve on
10:28:44 the Planning Commission.
10:28:45 So I just think that we have always to be cognizant of
10:28:49 diversity issues, and diversity makeup of our
10:28:52 community, and how important it is for that to be
10:28:55 reflected on all our boards and appointments that we
10:28:58 make.
10:28:59 Most of the time I will tell you, I look at that as
10:29:02 one of my biggest criteria, because it's so important

10:29:05 that anybody's voice be heard.
10:29:10 Thank you.
10:29:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Other council members?
10:29:12 >>MARY MULHERN: This is really, really difficult,
10:29:15 because everyone is so qualified, and I hadn't
10:29:19 realized we have two people who are on the Planning
10:29:21 Commission now who wanted to continue to serve.
10:29:23 So I think it's really difficult.
10:29:24 But I did want to say that I really support Mr. Kramer
10:29:33 because of his background and his emphasis on transit,
10:29:37 his career, and that he's will to, as a volunteer,
10:29:40 give that expertise to this planning for Hillsborough
10:29:43 County, and he is a resident of the city.
10:29:46 I would like to recommend him.
10:29:47 And I do know him personally and know that he will
10:29:51 give all of his time, every bit of time he has towards
10:29:55 this, because it means a lot to him.
10:29:57 It's his career, and his passion.
10:30:00 And I also wanted to say, yes, you're all qualified.
10:30:03 But if Charlie wants you to run, run against him.
10:30:08 Move to West Tampa.
10:30:12 >>CHAIRMAN: Mr. Caetano?

10:30:14 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Yes.
10:30:15 I am going to support Ed.
10:30:18 I have watched him on TV but in his application here
10:30:20 he says, currently serving another position appointed
10:30:24 by the City Council.
10:30:25 And I couldn't understand.
10:30:27 But evidently he was appointed by the commission.
10:30:32 So he is looking for our appointment.
10:30:34 And itch watched him and I have known him for the
10:30:36 years that I have been here in Tampa.
10:30:37 And he's a devoted person to the city.
10:30:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
10:30:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes, this is extremely tough.
10:30:51 I can honestly say, I personally know seven of these
10:30:55 eight folks, and Mr. Kalagian is very impressive and I
10:31:00 didn't know him before.
10:31:01 It looks like eight out of eight very impressive.
10:31:05 You have spoken to various folks on this list and I am
10:31:07 not going to repeat it.
10:31:08 I just want to speak to Jill Buford.
10:31:12 I was going to speak to Laura Lockett.
10:31:14 She and I practiced law together and I have said great

10:31:17 things about Laura on the past.
10:31:18 She's a fantastic public servant as a volunteer.
10:31:21 But Jill Buford, I think, is one of the most dedicated
10:31:24 neighborhood leaders this city has ever had down in
10:31:27 Port Tampa.
10:31:28 Jill has been at it for, I don't know, 15 or more
10:31:31 years, and without question in terms of her commitment
10:31:35 and knowledge of our community.
10:31:38 So I wasn't going to chime in.
10:31:42 But I felt that was important to remind everybody what
10:31:44 a great neighborhood leader Jill S.so we have a tough
10:31:48 decision.
10:31:48 We will probably be here the rest of the day trying to
10:31:50 sort it out.
10:31:52 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I do agree with Mr. Dingfelder,
10:31:56 that I think it's going to take more than one vote.
10:31:58 I can understand that.
10:32:00 My hearing, what I think I heard out of one ear, the
10:32:04 other one was still working, I don't know what the
10:32:09 rules are of engagement, not in war but in this thing
10:32:11 right here, we have the appointment to this wonderful
10:32:14 board.

10:32:15 I would like to ask the legal department, is there a
10:32:19 limit number of terms that you can serve, or are there
10:32:22 not?
10:32:23 Is it just wide open, you can be there for as long as
10:32:27 you get reappointed?
10:32:30 >> I don't have the specific answer.
10:32:32 I believe it would determine it but I --
10:32:41 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair.
10:32:43 That's why you are the chairperson here.
10:32:46 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: This term ends September
10:32:53 30th.
10:32:54 And the term will be for four years.
10:32:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: But, in other words, at four years
10:33:01 can those individuals reapply again?
10:33:03 Is there a term limit where it's eight years or 12
10:33:05 years or something like it is in government?
10:33:08 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: I don't see a term limit.
10:33:10 You can continue to apply as long as you are elected.
10:33:13 >> So in other words there will never be a new
10:33:16 infusion of ideas like we have on this council?
10:33:18 [ Laughter ]
10:33:19 You see, I agree with Mr. Scott what he said about

10:33:23 minorities.
10:33:24 When you look at the last names of all elected
10:33:27 officials in Hillsborough County, not all of
10:33:30 Hillsborough County but in Hillsborough County
10:33:32 government and city government, I'm the only true
10:33:34 minority.
10:33:36 >> No, you're not.
10:33:39 >> Yes, I am.
10:33:40 There's two of you, only one of me.
10:33:42 [ Laughter ]
10:33:43 I was kind of baiting.
10:33:52 Thank you very much.
10:34:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Are we ready to vote?
10:34:05 Let's vote.
10:34:05 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: While you are voting, I wanted
10:34:08 to move onto the civil service.
10:34:10 We have one applicant but no vacancy currently.
10:34:13 And for VRB, no applicant and one council vacancy for
10:34:19 an arborist.
10:34:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Ms. Foxx-Knowles, I was just
10:34:27 looking at the calendar.
10:34:29 And I would like, if I could, to clarify we would like

10:34:38 to receive the application for the ARC and the HPC.
10:34:42 >> I would like to receive the application by the
10:34:45 27th of September and have the candidates appear
10:34:47 before council on October 4th for a vote.
10:34:54 I wasn't date-specific before.
10:35:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Clarification on your motion?
10:35:04 >> Yes.
10:35:04 >> I'll second that.
10:35:05 (Motion carried).
10:35:06 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Madam Chair, if you want to
10:35:08 continue with your agenda while I tally the voting.
10:35:11 >>GWEN MILLER: We will.
10:35:12 We go to item number 11.
10:35:14 Cindy Miller.
10:35:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Do we need to authorize the clerk
10:35:18 to readvertise for the VRB?
10:35:25 I'd like to move that we readvertise for the VRB for
10:35:29 the arborist position which has been changing to also
10:35:32 include landscape architect, and to follow the same
10:35:38 time frame that we would receive the application for
10:35:40 the 27th with a vote on October 4th.
10:35:43 >> I have a motion and second.

10:35:44 (Motion carried).
10:35:45 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just to clarify and reiterate what
10:35:49 Ms. Foxx-Knowles said, Cindy passed me a note, there
10:35:55 are no term limits on the Planning Commission.
10:35:56 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:36:01 We go to item number 11.
10:36:04 >> I think there should be.
10:36:04 We need to change that rule.
10:36:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 11 is the request we made, update
10:36:11 for the Fort Homer Hesterly.
10:36:24 I have talking to Julia. She's going to make some
10:36:26 calls.
10:36:26 So you understand what my question, where my question
10:36:28 was, because I wasn't here when you went through this
10:36:32 whole process of the RFP.
10:36:34 Way was trying to find out, where were they in the RFP
10:36:37 process?
10:36:38 It is my understanding that each of the three ranking
10:36:42 firms, had 90 days to present those, the financial
10:36:46 feasibility of their project, and then move forward.
10:36:50 Now whether that's been done, I'm not sure.
10:36:56 Now we are being told that there's a plan amendment

10:36:58 which raises additional questions for the RFP and if
10:37:03 you move forward the comprehensive plan amendment, you
10:37:06 know, coming into planning and zoning, versus someone
10:37:13 coming later to be able to do something a little
10:37:19 different, in case number one happens to fall out and
10:37:21 not have the feasibility, financial feasibility.
10:37:25 So Ms. Cole, Julia, did you find out information?
10:37:30 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
10:37:31 I have a call in to the attorney representing armory
10:37:34 and he was trying to get R gather this information for
10:37:36 me, and he's going to call me back and see if he could
10:37:39 get it so maybe we could push this item back for a
10:37:42 couple of minutes some -- to allow me the opportunity
10:37:45 to find out the information on the questions.
10:37:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: My question, where are we in terms of
10:37:51 do we meet the -- 90 days, which is June, as I
10:37:55 understand it, this is September.
10:38:00 Secondly have, they signed the agreement, have they
10:38:02 signed to move forward?
10:38:03 It would appear to me you were having to negotiate a
10:38:06 contract, then move forward.
10:38:12 I did invite -- Henry, if you come, because I have

10:38:18 some questions, just raised some additional questions
10:38:20 about the comp plan amendment.
10:38:22 I wanted him to kind of speak to this, to the issues
10:38:26 in mind.
10:38:27 >> thank you for calling me forward.
10:38:29 >> State your name for the record.>> Matt Henry,
10:38:32 representing the development, one of the three
10:38:40 proposals.
10:38:40 I have some information that I would like to give to
10:38:42 the council, if I may.
10:38:44 Some background information.
10:39:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Sir, did you provide an extra copy
10:39:03 for the clerk for the file?>> I did.
10:39:08 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I appreciate that.
10:39:09 Thank you.
10:39:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You can go ahead and speak to the comp
10:39:17 plan and zoning issue, what that does, if there's no
10:39:26 finance feasibility being done.>> I have a statement
10:39:30 if I could read it from wine development, state our
10:39:33 position, as we understand where the process is.
10:39:37 As you know, we were anticipating comments today from
10:39:39 the administration on the status of the process, this

10:39:42 process to determine feasibility of the top three
10:39:45 ranked proposals.
10:39:46 As you can see in the letter that you received from
10:39:48 Cynthia Miller to City Council, it appears the mission
10:39:54 is stonewalling the request.
10:39:57 I talked to the attorneys at gray Robinson. This is
10:40:01 unfortunate.
10:40:02 It seems the first ranked proposal from the heritage
10:40:04 group is financially infeasible.
10:40:06 Without an operator to manage the farmers market this
10:40:11 proposal lacks revenue to finance its project.
10:40:14 Neither have we seen any letter of financing
10:40:17 confirming the dates that they have done this.
10:40:19 A lack of credible tenants and no letter of financing
10:40:23 shows this project to be financially infeasible.
10:40:25 We believe that it will not succeed in the West Tampa
10:40:29 market in its current requirement.
10:40:32 I have a letter from our tenant from the armory, the
10:40:35 metro alliance, I have a letter with financing.
10:40:41 I have submitted copies of it for the record.
10:40:43 Furthermore our proposal provides for two vital needs
10:40:45 to this community, the need for recreational

10:40:47 facilities, specifically ice sports utilities, as well
10:40:50 as the need for workforce housing.
10:40:53 As the head coach of the plant high school I can talk
10:40:57 to the need for ice sports facilities.
10:41:00 The facilities exceeded supply, the children are
10:41:04 beginning to be edged out in favor of higher paying
10:41:07 adults.
10:41:07 I believe many parents would find it accessible.
10:41:11 A Y YMCA with ice sports facility, without the need
10:41:16 for city funds.
10:41:18 Additionally the need for workforce has been
10:41:21 self-explanatory, costs are sky rocketing and vital
10:41:25 service providers, for teachers, firefighters, and
10:41:27 police desperately require housing they can afford.
10:41:30 These are very realistic needs, and our intent to
10:41:33 provide them is a result evidenced by letters that I
10:41:37 presented you with today.
10:41:38 Further more the administration's intent to allow the
10:41:40 armory board to pursue a comp plan amendment based on
10:41:42 the heritage group's proposal will lock the city into
10:41:46 this infeasible concept.
10:41:47 It will further lengthen and already lengthy due

10:41:50 diligence process going on in excess of a year.
10:41:52 Therefore we encourage the city to move the process
10:41:55 forward from having the opportunity to redevelop -- to
10:41:59 redevelop the Fort Hesterly site to the only proposal
10:42:04 of tenants and financial feasibility and it's dire
10:42:08 need by the City of Tampa.
10:42:13 Has issued nothing but the direction it has taken.
10:42:16 We have not been given the opportunity to present with
10:42:17 you evidence of our proposal's financial feasibility
10:42:20 until now.
10:42:21 While we patiently waited on our chance to prove this
10:42:24 feasibility, we have this proof while the armory board
10:42:27 has allowed the heritage group to exceed it's 90 day
10:42:31 due diligence without so much as a word to the public
10:42:34 or any information as to what they are intending to
10:42:36 do.
10:42:37 We now call for action on this from the council and
10:42:41 will not stop until our concerns have been addressed.
10:42:43 Thank you for a lug me to speak on this.
10:42:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I wanted you to address the comp plan
10:42:50 amendment.
10:42:50 I wasn't prepared for you to give a sales -- that's

10:42:56 not what I was looking for.
10:43:01 My issue was about the comp plan.
10:43:03 That raised a whole different issue.
10:43:04 I guess the original question, and I see Mr. Bentley,
10:43:10 representing the armory, I guess, Julia?
10:43:12 >>JULIA COLE: Yes.
10:43:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Can Mr. Bentley come forward and
10:43:16 address the questions I raised in terms of the
10:43:18 financial feasibility, contract and all those issues?
10:43:25 >>MARK BENTLEY: 201 North Franklin Street, 33602, I
10:43:29 represent the armory board of the State of Florida,
10:43:31 department of military affairs.
10:43:34 Forgive me, councilman, used to be commissioner.
10:43:38 But I didn't hear the questions.
10:43:40 I just walked in.
10:43:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The question was, RFP process, it went
10:43:46 90 days for the first ranked, for all of the firms,
10:43:48 with 90 days to submit their financial feasibility of
10:43:51 their project, which as I understand, a five star
10:43:55 hotel with the number ranked firm, and I guess farmers
10:44:01 market.
10:44:01 I guess the question was, in the negotiation, is there

10:44:04 a contract?>> there is a contract.
10:44:08 It was executed July 19th, 2007.
10:44:14 >> So then they have the financing in place?>> I think
10:44:16 there's a misunderstanding.
10:44:18 Part of the financial disclosure requirement I think
10:44:20 was article 9 of the response to the RFP.
10:44:24 And they fulfilled that and the committee selected
10:44:26 heritage LLC as number one.
10:44:30 They fulfilled their obligation under the RFP.
10:44:32 There's no requirement for financial disclosure.
10:44:36 So I think there's a misunderstanding.
10:44:40 They fulfilled all the requirements.
10:44:46 Without a contract, in their due diligence period, we
10:44:48 focused on a preferred relocation site, as to the
10:44:53 armory in --
10:44:56 >> Let me ask the question a little different then.
10:44:58 So in terms of the project, the financing in place to
10:45:01 move forward, the five-star hotel.
10:45:03 >> I can't tell you that their finance is in place or
10:45:07 where they are getting their finances.
10:45:09 The financial disclosure required under the RFP, they
10:45:12 fulfilled that.

10:45:14 There's nothing above and beyond that that's required
10:45:16 as part of the transaction.
10:45:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I was trying to get the documentation
10:45:22 from the RFP myself.
10:45:24 >> I have a copy of it here.
10:45:26 I have got the response if you are interested in
10:45:27 looking at that.
10:45:28 >> Well, I want to see the RFP.
10:45:30 What I would like to do, Julia, Julia, you and I can
10:45:36 set a time to look at what the requirements are and
10:45:39 that's what I why I was seeking all the information,
10:45:42 okay?
10:45:43 >>MARK BENTLEY: Kind of a footnote in reference to the
10:45:46 plan amendment.
10:45:46 When we analyzed all three respondents, here again,
10:45:50 the city has a very limited reverter interest in two
10:45:52 of the parcels.
10:45:54 But the armory reserved the right to reject any
10:45:57 proposer.
10:45:59 So they were ranked one, two, and three.
10:46:02 Then with respect to the plan amendment when you
10:46:04 analyze all three respondents whether it was

10:46:06 DeBartolo, reliance or heritage, they all required a
10:46:10 land use for the property's institutional government
10:46:15 quasi-government.
10:46:16 So mixed use projects which required at a minimum CMU
10:46:21 35 which we are pursuing to be submitted to council I
10:46:24 think sometime in November.
10:46:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder has a question.
10:46:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Will CMU accommodate all three of
10:46:34 the proposals?
10:46:36 CMU-35, excuse me.
10:46:37 >> councilman Dingfelder, all three proposals, some
10:46:41 just had number of rooms and things like that.
10:46:44 So we went -- relied on the zoning department.
10:46:48 They gave me analysis. Three proposals, and it was
10:46:51 their opinion that the CMU 35 would accommodate all
10:46:54 three of them.
10:46:57 >> And Ms. Coyle, are you here to confirm that, or
10:47:00 didn't participate in it?
10:47:02 Who did you work with on that?>> I believe Gloria
10:47:05 Moreda.
10:47:06 She drafted a memo to I think Cynthia Miller that I
10:47:10 looked at and that was my opinion as well.

10:47:12 Whether it was reliance, heritage, DeBartolo, CMU 35
10:47:17 was --
10:47:18 >> We don't want to limit and restrict, you know, the
10:47:20 process, because as staff said if one drops out, you
10:47:25 go to two.
10:47:26 If two drops out you go to three.
10:47:28 We want to be as flexible as possible to make sure the
10:47:30 CMU 35 works.
10:47:31 >> exactly.
10:47:32 That's where we are coming from.
10:47:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
10:47:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
10:47:37 Shirley Foxx-Knowles.
10:47:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: One other question.
10:47:45 Mark, don't leave.
10:47:46 It's sort of a process question.
10:47:48 The motion that I see on item 11 on the agenda says
10:47:51 administration to appear and provide an update on the
10:47:54 armory negotiations.
10:47:55 And then we got a memo from Ms. Miller that indicates,
10:47:59 you know, the comp plan amendment is coming down the
10:48:02 road.

10:48:03 But we don't -- we are sort of grasping around looking
10:48:07 for an update on the armory negotiation.
10:48:12 And I don't really understand how we ended up where we
10:48:16 are today without that information.
10:48:27 Be.
10:48:28 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
10:48:28 I misunderstood what council was trying to find out.
10:48:31 Now listening to the conversation I think we have a
10:48:33 better idea so we can go ahead and provide that
10:48:35 information as it relates to what happened in the
10:48:39 past, and not many of council members were here.
10:48:44 By way of background briefly, and then we'll get you
10:48:46 that information.
10:48:47 There was a memorandum of understanding that was
10:48:49 signed that came to council, the resolution was
10:48:52 signed, providing the process under which the RFP
10:48:56 would move forward.
10:48:58 The city's interest in this property is somewhat
10:49:00 limited.
10:49:01 So it is owned by the armory, and that is sort of how
10:49:07 we ended up with that.
10:49:11 I wasn't involved in the understanding or the process.

10:49:15 That process has ended.
10:49:17 And that's why the armory has made their decision,
10:49:21 they have entered into a contract and has gone ahead
10:49:25 and submitted for a comprehensive plan amendment, and
10:49:30 I don't know if they applied for the rezoning.
10:49:34 The only other issue that was dealt with is in the
10:49:36 memorandum of understanding, it wasn't related
10:49:38 directly to process related to the historic
10:49:41 designation of buildings on the armory site, one of
10:49:45 the buildings has already been designated and it would
10:49:48 obligate at the end of the process for the other
10:49:53 designation process as well.
10:49:55 What I think it would be appropriate for me to do is
10:49:58 go ahead and get that copy of information out to City
10:50:00 Council with a time line so that they understand where
10:50:03 we stand and where this is going.
10:50:15 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It's important for us to understand
10:50:17 that before we move forward, the comp plan amendment
10:50:19 that you do have a contract, what they said they would
10:50:23 do in an RFP, they had the financing in place, and the
10:50:26 reason I say that, my experience is, there are times
10:50:32 RFP go out and in the process you change -- someone

10:50:37 change the recommendation and then they don't honest
10:50:40 the RFP process and you have something different
10:50:43 coming back.
10:50:45 But that's what happened with the Central Park piece,
10:50:47 okay?
10:50:47 So my issue is, make sure we follow the process.
10:50:52 Follow the process.
10:50:55 Did they follow the process?
10:50:56 Did they meet all the requirements of the RFP?
10:50:59 Is the RFP sitting at 90 days to pro produce the
10:51:03 financial feasibility and it's intact?
10:51:05 If it's not, and want to do a comp plan amendment and
10:51:08 you move to the second and third, whoever, and you are
10:51:13 saying, the intent of the other people who had bid on
10:51:20 this, on this item.
10:51:21 They may want to do something different, like
10:51:23 workforce, affordable housing, will it be able to
10:51:26 accommodate -- will the comp plan accommodate that use
10:51:31 in case number one happens to fall out, does not get
10:51:33 the feasibilities, financial feasibility in place.
10:51:36 Do you follow what I'm saying?>> I do follow what
10:51:39 you're saying.

10:51:40 And the information that you are looking for so let me
10:51:42 go ahead and suggest maybe to get that information
10:51:45 together, provide it to you, and I think it would be
10:51:47 appropriate for me to maybe have some individual
10:51:49 conversation so that we can go through some of it.
10:51:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just to let you know that I have
10:51:56 asked Ms. Cole to give to council members a copy of
10:51:58 the memorandum of understanding.
10:52:00 I believe that was December of 2005.
10:52:03 Just by way of background.
10:52:04 If there's any other specific information, if you as a
10:52:07 council wish to receive that, it's to be provided to
10:52:11 you.
10:52:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Mr. Bentley.
10:52:16 Wait a minute.
10:52:20 Ms. Mulhern.
10:52:21 >>MARY MULHERN: I think these questions are probably
10:52:23 for our legal department more.
10:52:28 This strikes me as an example, another example of
10:52:30 where there is contract negotiations going on that may
10:52:38 be dependent on decisions that we are going to have to
10:52:41 make on zoning changes, comprehensive plan changes,

10:52:46 historic preservation changes.
10:52:47 So I'd like to ask that -- and it sounds like we are
10:52:52 going to be meeting with Julia and that's great.
10:52:55 But the earlier we get the information we need, the
10:53:01 easier it is for us to help this process along.
10:53:04 And the more information you give us, the more that we
10:53:11 can work with you.
10:53:13 Especially when we are going to be -- you know, it
10:53:16 sounds to me like some of these fields are dependent
10:53:18 on the decisions that we make about land use and
10:53:21 comprehensive plan changes.
10:53:23 And we need to figure out when we need to be involved
10:53:26 in that process.
10:53:27 And I think for all of us, it would be better if we
10:53:30 are involved earlier, at least knowing what's going on
10:53:36 in negotiations.
10:53:37 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And do you understand now, one more
10:53:42 time, do you understand what my question was, and what
10:53:45 we are trying to get to in terms of the bottom, in
10:53:47 terms of the armory and what's going on there?>> yes,
10:53:51 I understand.
10:53:52 It seems you are trying to get an opinion from the

10:53:54 legal department how the process is moving forward.
10:53:56 And if I could, and I don't know if you would permit
10:53:59 me to do this, get a quick history lesson where we
10:54:03 have gone through this process.
10:54:05 Because as much knowledge as the attorneys of the
10:54:07 armory board and some of the other individuals here,
10:54:09 and they have not been involved in this process.
10:54:11 Throughout the entire -- the entire realm of it.
10:54:15 And this whole thing began with an advertisement from
10:54:17 the City of Tampa on behalf of the armory board, with
10:54:21 the review commission, not a selection commission, a
10:54:23 review commission of six individuals representing the
10:54:25 armory board representing the citizens of the City of
10:54:27 Tampa and representing the staff of the City of Tampa.
10:54:30 And their recommendations were to rank those top three
10:54:32 firms, which is where we get those rankings.
10:54:35 Then they went to the representatives from the armory
10:54:37 board at the time, military officers, can you work
10:54:41 with these top three firms and can you work with the
10:54:43 bottom three firms?
10:54:44 Their opinion was we could not work with the bottom
10:54:46 three firms because we did.

10:54:50 So all three firms are capable of negotiating with the
10:54:53 city.
10:54:53 But the question was, or with the armory board, excuse
10:54:56 me.
10:54:56 Question was, why are we going through this process
10:55:03 and not giving all three firms the opportunity to
10:55:05 prove financial feasibility which is the direct
10:55:08 question that came out of the review commission?
10:55:10 They admitted that they did not have the resources to
10:55:13 fully explain which projects would move forward from
10:55:16 financial feasibility standpoint.
10:55:18 This is why Cynthia Miller, who was running the
10:55:21 process at the time, suggested that the city come back
10:55:24 and actually look at all three from a financial
10:55:27 feasibility standpoint, then made a determination they
10:55:29 did not have the resources to do all three at the same
10:55:32 time, which is where the 90 day recommendation came
10:55:34 from.
10:55:36 It would examine the first ranked firm for 90 days
10:55:39 F.it could not come up bring mid June we would move to
10:55:42 the second cranked firm and so on.
10:55:44 That did not happen.

10:55:45 Even if there was a contract signed in July by Cynthia
10:55:48 Miller, everyone if that contract is signed it still
10:55:51 violated the rules of the RFP process.
10:55:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: So Julia, you and I need to talk about
10:55:57 it.
10:55:58 Can we bring that back in, what, two weeks?
10:56:01 >> Second.
10:56:02 (Motion carried).
10:56:03 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Shirley Foxx-Knowles.
10:56:10 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: City clerk.
10:56:13 The candidates receiving the most votes include miss
10:56:19 Vivian Kitchen, and Mr. Ed Guinta.
10:56:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Wait, wait, wait.
10:56:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: How many votes?>> Mrs. Kitchen
10:56:38 received five votes and Mr. Guinta received four
10:56:42 votes.
10:56:43 The other two -- I could tell you everybody.
10:56:48 Do you want that?
10:56:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Unless they want to know publicly.
10:56:51 I don't want to put anybody to one vote.
10:56:55 I don't want to do that to anybody.
10:56:57 I think they are all qualified.

10:56:58 In fact if I were on that list I wouldn't have made
10:57:02 the cut but that's how I feel personally.
10:57:04 But thank you for voting.
10:57:06 But what I'm saying is, I want to be as humanistic as
10:57:11 possible.
10:57:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
10:57:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The reason I have a question, I
10:57:15 just wanted to make sure that there was a majority of
10:57:19 council voted for each one.
10:57:21 In this case, she said Mr. Guinta got four.
10:57:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Vivian ditch end and Mr. Guinta.
10:57:33 >> Move to prepare a resolution.
10:57:34 >> Second.
10:57:34 (Motion carried)
10:57:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Since some of these people are so
10:57:40 out standing, I encourage them to apply for openings
10:57:43 we have with the HPC and some of the other boards,
10:57:46 Variance Review Board.
10:57:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And the CAC, citizens advisory
10:57:52 council, that our chair is working on.
10:57:54 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, may I ask that you make also
10:57:56 the motion to accept those ballots and the legal

10:57:59 effect, that would be your decision with the effect as
10:58:01 of today.
10:58:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
10:58:04 >> Second.
10:58:04 (Motion carried).
10:58:04 >>CHAIRMAN: Now we go to item 12.
10:58:27 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
10:58:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Are you going to talk about the school
10:58:30 board?
10:58:31 >> The short answer is no.
10:58:32 I thought Mark Huey was going to address it.
10:58:36 Maybe mark is on his way, I don't know.
10:58:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Huey sent us a memo saying
10:58:42 bottom line, the school board is still messing around,
10:58:45 but the last line of his memo is, we will continue to
10:58:51 maintain contact with the school board regarding our
10:58:53 ongoing interests but we are -- we will also consider
10:58:56 other options.
10:58:57 Well, I'm really eager to see something happen with
10:59:00 the federal courthouse.
10:59:01 It has been four years since we received ownership of
10:59:03 it from the federal government.

10:59:04 We said we would do something with it other than pay
10:59:09 bills.
10:59:09 Therefore I would like to request Mr. Huey report back
10:59:12 in 30 days on how the city is going to encourage
10:59:17 additional interest in the courthouse.
10:59:20 What their plan is and what their time frame S.i am
10:59:23 eager to see something happen.
10:59:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'll second that for discussion.
10:59:27 If I may, Madam Chair, and four years is not relevant
10:59:33 to me, I don't plan on dying soon but let me say this,
10:59:37 and I understand the motion, it's a very good one.
10:59:39 We have got to get moved off center.
10:59:41 But historical buildings such as this one or the
10:59:44 Centro, they are very, very hard to find a usable use
10:59:48 for it in today's society.
10:59:51 When there was very little traffic, when most of the
10:59:54 traffic was street traffic.
10:59:55 Downtown had a nice grocery store, they had a lot of
10:59:58 people living in the neighborhood, there was more --
11:00:01 there was two or three drug stores, five movie
11:00:04 theaters, there was a lot going on that even today
11:00:07 with all the prosperity and all the development we

11:00:09 have had.
11:00:10 Things have changed.
11:00:11 We had street cars.
11:00:12 We had people living in neighborhoods, walking to
11:00:18 work.
11:00:19 So what we have is two buildings from another era, or
11:00:23 many more buildings from another era that should be
11:00:25 preserved, and how do we keep them preserved?
11:00:28 How do we maintain those buildings?
11:00:30 And who rents those buildings at a square foot that
11:00:33 nobody can afford?
11:00:36 It will be $35 a square foot.
11:00:38 And what happens is these buildings are there.
11:00:42 We have to try to find a tenant before we start making
11:00:47 investments.
11:00:49 If not we are going to be really tight for the amount
11:00:51 of money it takes.
11:00:52 And I am not against anything that Mrs. Saul-Sena said
11:00:56 or anybody else.
11:00:56 You want to see that motion because we have to get off
11:00:59 dead center.
11:01:00 They should tell us if they have a plan or don't have

11:01:02 a plan, and if they don't have a plan, we are looking
11:01:04 to work with them and try to find tenants or whatever
11:01:07 we need, but it's a very, very difficult, difficult
11:01:10 thing to do.
11:01:11 You can look at the historical buildings of the
11:01:13 structure and other parts of the city like Ybor City.
11:01:15 They are all struggling.
11:01:16 They are all doing well.
11:01:18 But they always need something for the building and
11:01:21 the amount of building and work that has to be done to
11:01:25 these structures is enormous.
11:01:26 And God bless those people who are really working to
11:01:30 save these buildings and maintain them.
11:01:32 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
11:01:33 (Motion carried)
11:01:36 We go to item number 13.
11:01:37 Mr. Shelby.
11:01:39 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, council, I prepared for
11:01:43 background materials the revised rules of procedure
11:01:46 that have been incorporate based on your review of the
11:01:55 draft of the last meeting.
11:01:57 And I believe there was a suggestion that has been

11:02:00 made, council, with regard to formalizing the fact
11:02:05 that the council does not meet during the first and
11:02:07 second week of the month of July.
11:02:10 And if that's council's desire, I would be prepared to
11:02:14 amend the rules to incorporate that if he's your
11:02:26 desire.
11:02:26 That way, what it does is just puts within the rules
11:02:28 the knowledge that the council -- does not meet the
11:02:35 first or second week of July.
11:02:36 Obviously there's an exception for an emergency
11:02:39 meeting should the need arise.
11:02:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Madam Chairman, that's been our
11:02:44 custom, and this sort of memorializes what's in our
11:02:49 custom. With that said I would like to move this for
11:02:51 first reading.
11:02:53 >> Second.
11:02:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So under our new post-October
11:02:58 program, meeting the first and third Thursday.
11:03:02 I just want to think about what happens in July.
11:03:04 So the first regular meeting of July would be
11:03:07 eliminated.
11:03:08 What are we doing on the second week?

11:03:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: My suggestion, council, is two
11:03:16 things.
11:03:16 Number one is to hold this perhaps, certainly till
11:03:20 after you do number 14.
11:03:21 Because Ms. Foxx-Knowles can provide with you a
11:03:24 calendar that can clearly show you the effects of
11:03:27 these rules.
11:03:28 Number two, I think there may be some people in the
11:03:30 audience that may want to address this.
11:03:32 You may want to hold this till after public comment if
11:03:34 there are any.
11:03:35 I don't know whether there are.
11:03:36 But I have been informed that several members of the
11:03:39 public have asked to receive copies of this for their
11:03:42 review prior to council taking action.
11:03:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Hold it till after public -- we go to
11:03:48 14.
11:03:49 Hold this.
11:03:56 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: City clerk.
11:03:59 Council, I'm here regarding your calendar.
11:04:01 I believe you all have your calendar.
11:04:09 We are proposing a calendar from October 1st

11:04:14 through December 31st, 2008.
11:04:17 And with the proposed calendar, the following will
11:04:21 take place: a regular council meeting on the first and
11:04:31 third. On the second Thursday will be your CRA and
11:04:31 your p.m. session.
11:04:34 On the fourth would be your workshop, and your p.m.
11:04:38 session.
11:04:41 There are five Thursdays --
11:04:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Are there copies?
11:04:49 I couldn't find them.
11:04:50 >>GWEN MILLER: In the back.
11:04:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Could somebody --
11:04:54 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Yes, I believe they were
11:04:56 provided by my deputy.
11:05:03 There is a memo on the front dated September 6th
11:05:05 and it says council calendar, October 1st, 2007.
11:05:09 Through December 31st.
11:05:37 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: If you would like to start in
11:05:39 October.
11:05:41 In October, which will be -- which will have the
11:05:48 effect of the new council session.
11:05:59 >>GWEN MILLER: We will hold 13 and 14.

11:06:04 All right.
11:06:04 Go to item number 15.
11:06:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe we would require the full
11:06:12 council to be present.
11:06:18 >>GWEN MILLER: She's going to get them.
11:06:22 Mr. Shelby?
11:06:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: This is pursuant to rule 4-C, council
11:06:27 rules of procedure.
11:06:27 Motion was to close the public hearing.
11:06:31 This was not adopted on a voice roll call vote, 3 to
11:06:35 3.
11:06:35 That is outlined under item 15 in your agenda.
11:06:38 What is before you now is a revote with the full
11:06:41 council present.
11:06:43 I see Ms. Mulhern entering the chambers.
11:06:46 I would ask, have you reviewed the record and are you
11:06:48 prepared to vote?
11:06:49 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
11:06:52 I have reviewed, read the record and watched the
11:06:55 videotape of the meeting last week.
11:06:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And what is required now is a vote of
11:07:02 council.

11:07:04 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Madam Chair, that being said, since
11:07:07 she's reviewed the record and done everything in
11:07:09 accordance to the rules, I again move the resolution,
11:07:13 move that motion for WZ 07-107.
11:07:20 I move that petition.
11:07:22 >> Second.
11:07:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just for the purposes ever preserving
11:07:27 the record with all council members now being present
11:07:29 I think I be appropriate to reread the title again.
11:07:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This is a public hearing on
11:07:35 emperors of Tampa requesting the sale of alcohol
11:07:38 4(COP) at 5718 east Adamo drive.
11:07:49 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It would be the bold section where it
11:07:51 says making lawful the sale of beverages.
11:07:53 Is that correct?
11:08:01 >> I move an ordinance making lawful the sale of
11:08:03 beverages containing alcohol regardless of alcohol
11:08:05 content, beer, wine and liquor, 4(COP) for consumption
11:08:08 on the premises and in sealed containers for
11:08:11 consumption off premises in connection with a lounge
11:08:13 nightclub business establishment on that certain lot,
11:08:16 plot or tract of land located at 5718 east Adamo

11:08:19 drive, Tampa, Florida as more particularly described
11:08:21 in section 2 hereof providing an effective date.
11:08:24 And also, I think that council advised us there was no
11:08:28 other way of doing this.
11:08:31 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
11:08:32 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miller, Scott, and
11:08:39 Caetano voting no.
11:08:41 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I did not vote no.
11:08:43 I voted yes.
11:08:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: For clarity can we ask for roll
11:08:48 call and vote?
11:08:49 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor raise your hand.
11:08:58 Okay, opposed, Nay.
11:09:03 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Miller and Scott
11:09:04 voting no.
11:09:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The thought I have is when we are told
11:09:21 pretty much that we don't have a choice, that concerns
11:09:27 me.
11:09:31 I'm looking at some point how are we going to be able
11:09:33 to address that?
11:09:36 >>REBECCA KERT: I understand your concerns and I
11:09:38 believe it's a valid concern. I will tell you there

11:09:41 are chapter 27 changes.
11:09:43 So there will be no more applicants for zoning before
11:09:46 you.
11:09:47 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, just a reminder, the public
11:09:50 hearing is closed.
11:09:51 With regard to this particular issue.
11:09:53 It has not been adopted.
11:09:54 Your adoption public hearing will be scheduled two
11:09:57 weeks from today for second reading and adoption of
11:10:00 public hearing.
11:10:01 Is that correct, madam clerk?
11:10:02 So this item is not yet adopted.
11:10:04 So, therefore, I ask if you do speak on this, just
11:10:07 cautionary, you don't speak to the merits of this
11:10:09 particular case outside the public hearing.
11:10:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:10:11 We go to item -- is there anyone in the public that
11:10:15 would like to request for legislative reconsideration?
11:10:25 We go to our audience portion.
11:10:26 Anybody in the public to speak on any item not set for
11:10:30 public hearing?
11:10:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This is a public hearing scheduled

11:10:34 but these documents were forwarded to you for a wet
11:10:37 zoning, but because of your short holiday season, I'm
11:10:40 on the schedule.
11:10:41 I gave Shirley Foxx-Knowles a copy.
11:10:44 I'm tentatively on your schedule but no motion has
11:10:47 been made by you to set this hearing for wet zoning,
11:10:51 136.
11:10:53 It's at 2221 West Platt street.
11:10:57 I'm requesting that you set that and confirm the slot
11:11:03 on October 1th at 10 a.m.
11:11:05 >> Second.
11:11:06 (Motion carried)
11:11:11 Next.
11:11:13 >> Sherri King.
11:11:14 I am the owner of Sherri's Yesterday Clothing and
11:11:18 Antiques, 5207 North Florida Avenue.
11:11:22 I'm also the president of the business guild of
11:11:25 Seminole Heights.
11:11:28 I am going to address the issue of the two-way
11:11:30 proposal for Florida Avenue specifically, and how it
11:11:36 also impacts Highlands Avenue as well.
11:11:40 Thank you first of all, council, for the opening of

11:11:43 this issue and sending it to the floor again.
11:11:48 Along with the zoning issues and the high speed
11:11:50 traffic on Florida Avenue, this whole business area
11:11:53 has been hobbled for years and I urge you to undo some
11:11:57 of the damage done to one of Tampa's historic
11:11:59 neighborhoods, long ago ripped in half by the
11:12:03 interstate.
11:12:05 Restoring two-way traffic on Florida Avenue will help
11:12:07 the revitalization of the district.
11:12:13 And we lost some of our people here to talk because
11:12:15 they had to wait.
11:12:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you for come.>> Gary
11:12:24 Elsworth, president of south Seminole Heights civic
11:12:26 association.
11:12:27 Also here to speak on item 6 on the agenda.
11:12:32 Just to go back a little ways, actually focus on item
11:12:36 67, I think back in November, Ms. Saul-Sena had a
11:12:38 workshop down in the Mascotte room on parking, invited
11:12:44 without knowing what we were going to talk about
11:12:47 parking but it quickly became a Seminole Heights issue
11:12:49 and how business redevelopment is hobbled, shows by
11:12:52 the lack of parking, and the one-way traffic, and the

11:12:57 speeding traffic.
11:12:59 And Ms. Saul-Sena, after the meeting, said, hey, why
11:13:02 don't you come to the MPO transportation meeting, we
11:13:04 are meeting at the beginning of December.
11:13:05 And it was at that meeting I came and presented our
11:13:09 view and our vision for what we wanted to see happen
11:13:11 in the urban corridors of Seminole Heights.
11:13:15 It was Ms. Alvarez at the time, MPO, who tacked on
11:13:19 Howard and Armenia.
11:13:21 And this is a friendly amendment to the study.
11:13:23 And as you know, the MPO has considerable different
11:13:28 makeup at this time but I share this with you to give
11:13:30 you different background on the recent regeneration of
11:13:37 this conversation.
11:13:39 It really does hamper business redevelopment, and the
11:13:42 speeding traffic is really a safety issue.
11:13:45 And I have great respect for Mr. Daignault.
11:13:48 I think his viewpoint brings a very focused part of
11:13:53 the issue, which is infrastructure.
11:13:59 I understand D.O.T.'s charge is to move traffic as
11:14:02 quickly as possible.
11:14:04 But our issue of residents in this neighborhood is

11:14:07 completely different and I don't want you to think I
11:14:10 just came to talk to you today.
11:14:15 This morning at about 3:00.
11:14:33 This is not business corridor but the one way portion
11:14:36 of Highland.
11:14:38 And when a guy stands out in the corner in a shirt and
11:14:42 tie and a camera that tends to slow things down, too.
11:14:50 >> How fast were they going?
11:14:53 >> I don't know. They have been doing paving work.
11:14:55 Speed limit here is 40.
11:14:57 I cross this in the morning to get the newspaper.
11:14:59 And let me tell you, I have a whole new understanding
11:15:02 of rush hour.
11:15:06 And depending on how the light changes.
11:15:12 But this is Highland which hasn't been included in the
11:15:15 study.
11:15:16 I don't want to see the study taking a vote of the
11:15:21 tail wagging the dog when the -- the Department of
11:15:24 Transportation wagging the city because there is more
11:15:27 to look at I think than how fast you can get traffic
11:15:30 through the neighborhood.
11:15:30 Thank you.

11:15:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.>> Another voice on agenda
11:15:37 item number 6, I live at 1408 East Hanna.
11:15:44 I have been involved in the neighborhood for years
11:15:48 including a council committee on residential
11:15:50 neighborhood traffic.
11:15:53 This has been an issue that goes on for years.
11:15:56 We lost one of the originals that we had.
11:16:01 I was talking to him when I was in south Seminole
11:16:03 Heights kept saying, if I can't get something changed,
11:16:06 and he talked to the previous council members that are
11:16:09 no longer on council, he basically said he couldn't
11:16:11 keep the business open on one-way traffic.
11:16:14 He said that will decide whether it's one way traffic
11:16:20 or not.
11:16:20 If you look up and down Florida Avenue what you have
11:16:22 is no construction for more than 20 years.
11:16:24 You have businesses that don't serve the neighborhood.
11:16:28 You have eating on Highland Avenue and Tampa street.
11:16:33 Seminole Heights and Tampa Heights, I think, are both
11:16:36 designated as urban villages.
11:16:38 You don't have freeways running through the middle of
11:16:41 a village.

11:16:42 I think it's really important.
11:16:43 I looked at the slide preview on the council agenda,
11:16:47 and the D.O.T. accounts for traffic on Florida, and
11:16:52 north 275 are 12,000 a day.
11:16:56 Southbound Tampa Highland, 9500.
11:16:59 The argument the D.O.T. presented was if you make them
11:17:02 two-way it would deteriorate the road surface faster.
11:17:06 That's 21,000 vehicles, divide them between the two
11:17:10 assuming that people are going to do well.
11:17:11 You are looking at about 10,750 vehicles a day.
11:17:16 I am not sure how that's going to result in more
11:17:18 volume and deteriorating the roads.
11:17:20 What it will do, though, is it will mean that
11:17:23 businesses that we lost like Whaley's could have
11:17:28 survived.
11:17:28 It will mean you would have more development.
11:17:31 The cost to the city I think in the long run is not
11:17:33 going to be more.
11:17:34 It's going to actually be a net gain to the city
11:17:36 because those properties that are vacant lots, that
11:17:39 have junk cars on them that are abandoned buildings on
11:17:43 Florida Avenue, they are not meeting their highest and

11:17:45 best use, they are not generating revenue to the city,
11:17:49 and not only that, but we want to bring people into
11:17:52 the city, not keep building suburbs further and
11:17:55 further out.
11:17:56 So thank you again so much for bringing this up.
11:17:59 And I really hope that some day I will see you at a
11:18:05 two-way street sale.
11:18:08 >> Put your name on the record.
11:18:09 >> Rick Pfeiffer.>> good morning, Madam Chairman and
11:18:12 council members.
11:18:13 My name is Darleen Goodman, Tim president of the
11:18:15 Palmetto Beach community association and I have come
11:18:18 today to speak about item 75, which is special permit
11:18:27 that is up for appeal.
11:18:28 And I'm here today --
11:18:31 >> Sorry to interrupt you, but that's going to be
11:18:33 coming up as a separate item.
11:18:35 You will have the opportunity to speak then.
11:18:36 >> okay.
11:18:38 Thank you.
11:18:40 .
11:18:40 >> Susan long.

11:18:43 I'm treasurer of the Old Seminole Heights association,
11:18:47 here to speak than, of course, item 6.
11:18:50 Seminole Heights has four, five major roads, most of
11:18:56 which are sole commercial corridor.
11:18:59 We have Nebraska.
11:19:00 We have Florida.
11:19:01 We have Hillsborough.
11:19:03 MLK.
11:19:03 Of course we have 275 which is never going to be a
11:19:07 corridor.
11:19:08 Of those four primary roads all four of them are FDOT
11:19:11 roads.
11:19:12 We have no commercial corridor at all to develop in
11:19:15 our neighborhoods, that we don't have to climb over
11:19:18 FDOT.
11:19:19 FDOT has told us very matter of factly we continue
11:19:22 care about parking, we don't care about that, our job
11:19:25 is to move cars.
11:19:26 And I understand that they need to move cars.
11:19:28 But for our neighborhood that means that we as the
11:19:31 core neighborhood, one of the core neighborhoods, we
11:19:34 are the bypass route for people who live south or

11:19:37 north.
11:19:37 They leave downtown.
11:19:39 They zip through our neighborhood.
11:19:41 More often than not, we have heard from friends of
11:19:43 ours who come to our houses and say, you have a
11:19:46 beautiful neighborhood, what's the matter with the
11:19:48 commercial corridor?
11:19:49 The mat we are the commercial corridors, you can't do
11:19:52 anything with them.
11:19:52 Can't park on the street.
11:19:54 Horizontally.
11:19:56 Any other way.
11:19:56 There is no parking available.
11:19:58 The buildings are very old buildings, most of which
11:20:01 everybody built to limit the lots so there's no place
11:20:04 to put in your new requirements, retention ponds,
11:20:08 et cetera.
11:20:10 The speed is unbelievable.
11:20:11 One way on Florida it is scary to walk down the
11:20:14 sidewalk, because the cars zip by 50, sometimes 60
11:20:19 miles per hour and it doesn't matter what hour of the
11:20:20 day it is.

11:20:21 During rush hour they are closer together.
11:20:24 We desperately need roads that are two-way that go
11:20:28 just a little bit slower, so there's some potential to
11:20:31 develop these.
11:20:31 And we would appreciate that consideration.
11:20:33 Thank you.
11:20:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:20:36 Ms. Saul-Sena.
11:20:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The planning staff, about three
11:20:39 months ago, had a big session on form based zoning
11:20:43 which is supposed to change our suburban code into one
11:20:46 that is will encourage the redevelopment of commercial
11:20:48 corridors.
11:20:49 I don't know what the time frame of that is.
11:20:52 But -- Ms. Catherine Coyle is here.
11:20:55 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
11:20:57 What I will announce to you is that neighborhood
11:20:58 planning has moved from community planning effectively
11:21:02 under me in land development.
11:21:03 And Seminole Heights planning areas called the greater
11:21:07 Seminole Heights area because it incorporates a couple
11:21:09 of historic districts in a larger area from the river

11:21:12 all the way to 22nd, the entire three neighborhood
11:21:15 associations as well as all these commercial
11:21:17 corridors, that they are seeking.
11:21:19 We are kicking off that plan.
11:21:21 Within the next couple of weeks, who reports to
11:21:28 myself, is taking charge each business association,
11:21:31 the business alliance, business guild, as well as the
11:21:34 larger properties holders within this area.
11:21:37 We are going to be scheduling charrettes earlier next
11:21:40 year to deal with these kinds of issues.
11:21:43 We are bringing the MPO and D.O.T., Hartline, we are
11:21:47 bringing everyone to the table to be able to talk
11:21:49 about these issues.
11:21:51 The two waying of these streets is just one piece of
11:21:54 it.
11:21:54 I personally live in Seminole Heights so I have a
11:21:56 stake in that as well.
11:21:58 But hopefully within the next, I would say, six to
11:22:02 eight months you are going to see probably a draft of
11:22:06 a solid plan not only for changes to the comprehensive
11:22:08 plan, acknowledging this formally as the urban village
11:22:12 with criteria, as well as regulations, in the format

11:22:16 of a form based code, street cross section,
11:22:20 landscaping, signage, everything, the full blown
11:22:23 scheme.
11:22:23 And this is the first demonstration project in the
11:22:25 city that we are tackling is Seminole Heights.
11:22:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you so much. This is great
11:22:32 news.
11:22:32 As soon as you develop a time frame for these meetings
11:22:37 and for your work and all of that, if you would share
11:22:39 it with council, because we are really interested.
11:22:42 We have heard from years from the citizens about these
11:22:45 issues.
11:22:46 And I'm thrilled that we are finally getting on it and
11:22:48 we will be supportive and we will schedule things so
11:22:51 we can move as quickly as possible to our legislature.
11:22:56 >>MARY MULHERN: I wanted to try to get something on
11:22:58 the calendar workshop to talk about because we brought
11:23:04 these to the neighborhood to be able to have some
11:23:06 input, and my concern, I know it is a bigger picture
11:23:09 than just these four streets, and just one waying, two
11:23:13 waying.
11:23:14 But I think we need to address especially the

11:23:16 Howard-Armenia part because they are doing that
11:23:19 planning.
11:23:21 For the interstate ramp.
11:23:22 So if there's any possibility of making changes, and
11:23:24 even, as I said, it's partially, certain parts of it,
11:23:31 get two-way and leave one way, and I know some of the
11:23:35 people in West Tampa, what they are thinking of is not
11:23:39 turning it into two ways but actually adding a parking
11:23:42 lane, and beautifying the streets.
11:23:45 So I think we need to talk about it before.
11:23:47 So I want to put it on the calendar, I guess just for
11:23:52 a council meeting, because it looks like our workshops
11:23:54 are pretty full up and we need to do this.
11:23:56 I would like to do it in the next month.
11:23:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you much.
11:24:00 I'm not opposed to workshop or whatever.
11:24:02 But I believe there was a plan some time back that the
11:24:06 county commission had put into effect, and I believe
11:24:12 these are both county roads.
11:24:13 I'm not 100% sure.
11:24:15 >> one is State Road.
11:24:19 Another one --

11:24:20 >> Don't know which.
11:24:20 The state road is going to be Armenia, I'm not sure.
11:24:23 But I know the Planning Commission has -- excuse me,
11:24:27 the Hillsborough County commission has a plan that
11:24:28 they have done in years past concerning these two
11:24:32 roads, I have been told that.
11:24:34 I don't know, I didn't verify all that.
11:24:37 But there was one part of it, I think, that made
11:24:40 Howard, it moved traffic from where it is now to the
11:24:45 left of center, two lanes, and to the right, I think
11:24:47 they had diagonal parking, something to that effect
11:24:51 but I'm not sure.
11:24:52 That's why I think since you it up, I would appreciate
11:24:56 if you get with commissioners and see if you can make
11:24:59 those plans so we can review them.
11:25:02 That's what I think.
11:25:02 I'm not 100% sure.
11:25:04 >> We can talk to the county but the other thing is
11:25:06 the question, bigger question, which you brought up,
11:25:08 is that if these are state roads, is there a way that
11:25:14 we could -- I don't know.
11:25:17 Do they have to be state roads?

11:25:19 What's involved with that?
11:25:20 I guess that's a question for legal.
11:25:28 Marty?
11:25:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm aware of situations where the
11:25:31 state has relinquished it.
11:25:34 It's quite an involved process.
11:25:36 If that's something council wishes to do I can
11:25:38 research into it.
11:25:39 But I'm aware of when the state does, it is quite an
11:25:43 involved process, at least my experience.
11:25:46 By the way, I should point out that there are, just as
11:25:51 there are disadvantages, there are also advantages to
11:25:53 having a road -- that you might need to have that kind
11:25:57 of discussion of what that encompasses.
11:26:01 >> That would be great if you did some research on
11:26:03 that.
11:26:03 Someone mentioned to me that I think St. Pete had just
11:26:06 done this with Central Avenue, or one of their
11:26:10 downtown streets.
11:26:13 Taking a look at it.
11:26:14 So it's worth looking at.
11:26:16 I mean, this might be for your workshop when you get

11:26:21 to it.
11:26:31 Just want to name a date for to us come back to
11:26:33 council.
11:26:33 What I would like to ask for Wilson Stair to appear,
11:26:38 invite someone from the MPO, probably Alan Steinback,
11:26:43 and legal, Marty, if you are going to look into some
11:26:46 of these issues, if you could have some information
11:26:48 for us.
11:26:52 And I would like to see some figures from D.O.T.
11:26:59 showing us what the cost of having to change their
11:27:01 plan for the on-ramps would be.
11:27:05 So I'm thinking October, we have a meeting October
11:27:10 4th.
11:27:13 Is that enough time?
11:27:14 >> if we can come back on October 4th.
11:27:20 >> Second.
11:27:22 >> With staff reports from Wilson Stair and legal, and
11:27:29 inviting the MPO and FDOT.
11:27:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY: A question.
11:27:37 Staff reports, the staff report is usually limited to
11:27:39 five minutes.>> do we need to make it a workshop then?
11:27:44 All right.

11:27:45 So when is our next -- is the 11th a workshop
11:27:49 date?
11:27:49 >>GWEN MILLER: Why don't you wait until we have the
11:27:52 calendar and you can see --
11:27:55 >>> I just want to make sure if there are people here
11:27:57 to speak on that, knowing we are going to bring it up
11:27:59 again.
11:28:04 Would anyone else like to speak?
11:28:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I just want a clarification.
11:28:08 Purpose of the workshop, if I hear it correctly, and
11:28:11 if there's additions or deletions, please correct me
11:28:16 if I'm misunderstanding.
11:28:18 You want from the Department of Transportation the
11:28:20 cost to change the plan, you wanted a representative
11:28:22 from the MPO here as well, and --
11:28:31 >> Give us a report.
11:28:32 A written report.
11:28:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: From the Department of
11:28:34 Transportation?
11:28:35 >> From FDOT.
11:28:36 >>MARY MULHERN: From FDOT, a written report.
11:28:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Maybe we should come back when you

11:28:42 look at the calendar how long you want to do that.
11:28:45 But as for me you are asking for the State Road
11:28:48 designation and a report on that.
11:28:51 >> Yes, I think that's something that we could
11:28:54 incorporate.
11:28:55 I mean, that's going to take you awhile to do.
11:28:58 Maybe we should incorporate that, you will Julia's
11:29:04 workshop.>> excuse me.
11:29:08 I'm familiar with this issue.
11:29:10 And the most expeditious thing to do is to look at
11:29:14 what it would take.
11:29:15 I don't know that we need to go down -- I don't think
11:29:18 we need to spend the time to have the staff do a
11:29:20 report on what it would take to change the state road
11:29:23 designation.
11:29:23 I think we should look at our options.
11:29:31 >> That's why I'm saying it can be a later date.
11:29:33 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I may be long-term but you do know you
11:29:37 can do a local agreement with the state.
11:29:40 Right now, now, 40th Street is a county road but
11:29:45 operated by the city under an interlocal agreement.
11:29:50 But my understanding is you can do an interlocal

11:29:53 agreement and also suggest -- and thank you for
11:29:56 bringing the item to council -- you may want to talk
11:29:59 to Mr. Skelton at FDOT.
11:30:05 It's been my experience that generally when you talk
11:30:08 with them, the number one concern is they will try to
11:30:10 work with you, and if you have a community meeting, or
11:30:14 a meeting where you like citizens to come, they are
11:30:17 more apt to work even more with you.
11:30:20 So I would encourage you.
11:30:21 You may want to talk to Mr. Skelton and, you know,
11:30:26 share your concerns and your issues and go from there.
11:30:34 >>GWEN MILLER: We will deal with your motion when we
11:30:36 go through the calendar.
11:30:39 >>CATHY COYLE: I wanted to state one thing about the
11:30:41 charrettes.
11:30:42 We will be inviting you as part of those charrettes
11:30:45 for leadership as well.
11:30:47 Council members, we fully expect to you show up.
11:30:50 These charrettes are going to run five days, the full
11:30:54 gamut of the day, from eight a.m. until probably seven
11:30:56 or eight at night.
11:30:57 For five straight days in the area.

11:31:00 So we are expecting council members and other elected
11:31:02 officials and part of the administration to come in
11:31:06 and feed into that process, to make sure we have a
11:31:09 proper guidance.
11:31:10 That's why we are bringing D.O.T. in, not to push them
11:31:13 into these certain things but bringing them to the
11:31:15 table and letting them understand what the
11:31:17 neighborhood wants and what we expectasa city as well.
11:31:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:31:21 Good.
11:31:22 Now we go to item 16, wants to be withdrawn.
11:31:24 >> Need to get a motion.
11:31:26 >> So moved.
11:31:27 >> Second.
11:31:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to withdraw item 16.
11:31:30 (Motion carried)
11:31:31 We now go to committee reports.
11:31:33 Public safety, Reverend Scott.
11:31:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I move items 17 through 24.
11:31:41 >> Second.
11:31:41 (Motion carried)
11:31:44 Parks and recreation, Ms. Linda Saul-Sena.

11:31:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just hope that in the future all
11:31:50 of our rules will be energy saving as possible.
11:31:55 I would like to move 25 through 28.
11:31:57 >> Second.
11:31:57 (Motion carried).
11:31:58 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mrs. Saul-Sena, I talked to a
11:32:04 roofer yesterday.
11:32:05 There is a new system out that's better than a green
11:32:10 roof.
11:32:10 It's a solar type of thing that's put down.
11:32:15 And this roofer livers in my neighborhood.
11:32:18 And he's going to give me some information.
11:32:19 I'll give it to you.
11:32:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
11:32:21 And give to the Mr. Dingfelder because it's his
11:32:23 committee working on green.
11:32:26 That's great.
11:32:27 And I'll give to the David Vaughan, too. Thank you.
11:32:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Public works, Mr. Charlie Miranda.
11:32:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I understand 32 was pulled.
11:32:37 I was speaking to a department head.
11:32:38 I have no problem with that.

11:32:39 This is a very complex issue.
11:32:42 There is two sweepers being leased for $601,000 for
11:32:47 four years and we currently have, I believe, a fleet
11:32:50 of four sweepers.
11:32:52 These two sweepers, the annual cost of each one to
11:32:55 purchase is $180,000, 360,000.
11:32:58 And why spend 601,000 versus 300 -- 360,000?
11:33:05 The problem is what we have now is not a -- when you
11:33:10 buy these sweepers are very complex and difficult to
11:33:12 maintain.
11:33:13 They do not operate about 30% of the time because they
11:33:15 are in the shop broke down.
11:33:17 This will enable the city to have continuous sweeper
11:33:21 of the streets that we so need all the time, because
11:33:24 as I understand the contract, I have not read it, but
11:33:27 as I understand from various individuals, this would
11:33:29 enable the city to have continuous sweeping.
11:33:33 It will bring another machine in, while those are
11:33:36 broke down.
11:33:37 But that will come up in two weeks.
11:33:39 And I'll try to get the finalization of that contract
11:33:42 in.

11:33:42 I move items 29 through 34 with the exception of --
11:33:50 excuse me, through 36 with the exception of 32.
11:33:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Madam Chairman.
11:33:56 On item 29, we are putting -- we really need these, we
11:34:03 need these an and we need many more but we are moving
11:34:05 in the right direction, and I'm thrilled to see this
11:34:07 on our agenda.
11:34:08 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
11:34:10 (Motion carried)
11:34:11 Finance Committee, Mr. Dingfelder.
11:34:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll move items 37 and 38.
11:34:16 >> Second.
11:34:17 (Motion carried).
11:34:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Building and zoning, Mr. Joseph
11:34:21 Caetano.
11:34:21 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like to move items 39 to
11:34:25 50.
11:34:26 >> Second.
11:34:26 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: And we are giving 1.5 million to
11:34:31 the homeless.
11:34:32 And I talked to the mayor in my meeting last week, and
11:34:35 I said what are we going to do about the homeless

11:34:37 situation in this city?
11:34:39 If we are going to be the next great city we can't
11:34:41 have people sleeping on the sidewalk every night in
11:34:44 front of the Catholic church.
11:34:45 I think we need some resolution.
11:34:48 I don't know how we are going to do it but somebody
11:34:50 has got to do it.
11:34:53 Thank you.
11:34:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:34:54 We have a motion and second.
11:34:55 (Motion carried)
11:34:57 Transportation, Mary Mulhern.
11:34:58 >>MARY MULHERN: I move item number 51 through 59.
11:35:04 >> Second.
11:35:04 (Motion carried).
11:35:04 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder, set public hearings?
11:35:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Madam Chair.
11:35:13 Move to set the following public hearings, items 55
11:35:17 through 59.
11:35:19 >> Second.
11:35:19 (Motion carried).
11:35:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Now items for second reading, item

11:35:29 number 60.
11:35:35 >> So moved.
11:35:35 >> Second.
11:35:36 (Motion carried).
11:35:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public wants to
11:35:38 speak on item number 60?
11:35:40 >> Move to close.
11:35:41 >> Second.
11:35:41 (Motion carried)
11:35:46 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I'd like to introduce an
11:35:48 ordinance, the city of Tampa, Florida, amending City
11:35:51 of Tampa code ordinances chapter 3, alcoholic
11:35:53 beverages, article II, section 3-29.1, by deleting
11:35:59 certain provisions regarding enforcement, providing
11:36:02 for severability, providing for repeal of all
11:36:06 ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.
11:36:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll second that and you're
11:36:12 adopting it for second reading.
11:36:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Motion to adopt, council member?
11:36:18 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Adopted for second reading.
11:36:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
11:36:22 Vote and record.

11:36:32 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously.
11:36:33 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that's
11:36:35 going to speak on item 61 through 9?
11:36:39 Please stand and raise your right hand.
11:36:43 61 through 69.
11:36:47 (Oath administered by Clerk).
11:36:50 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to open those items.
11:36:52 >> So moved.
11:36:52 >> Second.
11:36:53 (Motion carried).
11:36:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
11:36:56 wants to speak on item 61?
11:36:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to close.
11:36:59 >> second.
11:36:59 (Motion carried).
11:37:00 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance upon second
11:37:08 reading, an ordinance approving an historic
11:37:11 preservation property tax exemption application
11:37:13 relative to the restoration, renovation or
11:37:16 rehabilitation of certain property owned by William
11:37:20 Kent and Cynthia Ihrig, located at 816 south Edison
11:37:24 Avenue, Tampa, Florida in the Hyde Park historic

11:37:26 district based upon certain findings providing for
11:37:28 notice to the property appraiser of Hillsborough
11:37:30 County, providing for severability, providing for
11:37:32 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
11:37:34 effective date.
11:37:37 >> Second.
11:37:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
11:37:39 Vote and record.
11:37:41 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder being
11:37:55 absent at vote.
11:37:56 >> Is there anyone in the public that wants to speak
11:37:58 on item 62?
11:37:59 >> Move to close.
11:38:00 >> Second.
11:38:00 (Motion carried)
11:38:04 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Move adoption of ordinance approving
11:38:08 an historic preservation property tax exemption
11:38:11 application relative to the restoration, renovation or
11:38:14 rehabilitation of certain property owned by Tomybor
11:38:17 LLC located at 2212 east third Avenue, Tampa, Florida,
11:38:22 in the Ybor City historic district based upon certain
11:38:26 findings, providing for notice to the property

11:38:29 appraiser of Hillsborough County, providing for
11:38:32 severability, providing for repeal of all ordinances
11:38:34 in conflict, providing an effective date.
11:38:36 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
11:38:38 Vote and record.
11:38:47 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder being
11:38:48 absent at vote.
11:38:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
11:38:51 wants to speak on item 63?
11:38:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
11:38:55 >> Second.
11:38:55 (Motion carried).
11:38:56 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Miranda.
11:39:05 Thank you, Madam Chair.
11:39:06 Move to adopt the following ordinance upon second
11:39:08 reading, an ordinance approving an historic
11:39:10 preservation property tax application relative to the
11:39:14 restoration, renovation, or rehabilitation of certain
11:39:17 properties owned by Roger M. Rixom and Joan K. Rixom
11:39:21 located at 2319 east Fifth Avenue, Tampa, Florida in
11:39:24 the Ybor City historic district based upon certain
11:39:26 findings providing for notice to the property

11:39:29 appraiser of Hillsborough County providing for
11:39:30 severability, and providing for repeal of all
11:39:32 ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.
11:39:35 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
11:39:36 Vote and record.
11:39:47 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder being
11:39:49 absent at vote.
11:39:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: For number 64, I wanted to ask the
11:39:53 staff a question.
11:40:07 The date of the report is 7-6-07.
11:40:11 I wonder if you have a more recent report.
11:40:15 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land Development Coordination.
11:40:17 I do have a staff report from August 15th of POS
11:40:22 07.
11:40:26 >> And that report, does the DRC find it consistent or
11:40:32 interest inconsistent?>> consistent.
11:40:35 >> Okay.
11:40:36 You know how we discuss the sidewalks that are not
11:40:38 going to be around the perimeter of the -- I didn't
11:40:44 see that notice in the transportation report or your
11:40:46 staff report.
11:40:47 Why didn't you recognize that?>> this case that was

11:40:54 before you on August 23rd, there is a note that
11:40:58 discusses the sidewalks being determined by council to
11:41:07 be incompatible or unfeasible and the fee in lieu
11:41:10 paid.
11:41:10 >> it wasn't mention -- in the staff report that they
11:41:14 were asking for a waiver.
11:41:17 >> it is not a waiver.
11:41:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If I may.
11:41:20 Thank you.
11:41:21 I would like to say one thing and I'm glad that the
11:41:23 sidewalk word came up.
11:41:24 If I recollect in past history when I was here the
11:41:28 sidewalk ordinance, I think it's very specific as to
11:41:31 where you can put a sidewalk.
11:41:32 And I believe that it reads on property that belongs
11:41:37 to the city.
11:41:38 That property that belongs to the -- not property that
11:41:43 belongs to the land owner.
11:41:44 Respectfully to all involved, a taking of a property
11:41:46 is when you tell somebody here, or give the
11:41:49 indication, that that's way want, I want you to give
11:41:52 me the property so I can put the sidewalk on your

11:41:54 personal property.
11:41:55 To me, that is a taking under chapter 73 of eminent
11:42:02 domain, that we are taking something without giving
11:42:04 something back.
11:42:04 And I feel somewhat in the middle here of all these
11:42:07 things that are happening with sidewalks.
11:42:09 I certainly want to comply with the sidewalk
11:42:11 ordinance, but I also want to comply with the right to
11:42:14 property owners that the sidewalks, if they are going
11:42:17 to be put in somebody's property and devalue the
11:42:19 property is taking, not the value of the sidewalk,
11:42:23 that has got to be cleared up here mountain sidewalk
11:42:26 ordinance.
11:42:27 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
11:42:28 I think if I may explain our sidewalk process.
11:42:35 We have an ordinance which provides how sidewalks are
11:42:38 required.
11:42:38 It's a little different than the other waivers that we
11:42:40 have, or the other requirements we have.
11:42:43 We require, when we go through the development
11:42:45 process, whether you are a PD or not, but you are
11:42:47 obligated to put in sidewalks, unless it is determined

11:42:50 that it is -- putting sidewalks on the public
11:42:54 right-of-way, unless it is determined to be not
11:42:57 feasible.
11:43:00 To make the determination if it's not feasible it's
11:43:03 either City Council or the city transportation
11:43:05 department.
11:43:06 That is where the sidewalk ordinance reads.
11:43:08 I think in the past they have been listed as waiver of
11:43:11 site plans, and talks about that issue, and the
11:43:14 appropriate determination is either City Council
11:43:16 making the determination, of not being feasible on the
11:43:20 public right-of-way, or as I said, transportation
11:43:22 department to make that determination.
11:43:24 I think in this instance, and I wasn't at first
11:43:27 reading, but I think what occurred in this instance is
11:43:29 not withstanding that determination of City Council
11:43:33 whether or not it's not feasible for transportation
11:43:35 department's position that it's not feasible and that
11:43:37 is why they did not object to the note which states
11:43:40 that it is not feasible to put the sidewalk within the
11:43:43 public right-of-way.
11:43:44 Not withstanding the fact that council makes the

11:43:47 determination that transportation makes the
11:43:51 determination it's not feasible.
11:43:53 There's an obligation that you pay into the sidewalk,
11:43:56 the in lieu sidewalk, the in lieu sidewalk fee is not
11:44:02 something that can be waived.
11:44:03 At the end of the day a property owner either puts the
11:44:07 sidewalks on the property right-of-way unless it is
11:44:09 not feasible and if not feasible that property owner
11:44:11 is required to pay the in lieu fee.
11:44:14 That's why the note is written this way on the site
11:44:16 plan and why I don't believe you have my kind of
11:44:18 objection from the transportation department which
11:44:20 would not be through a waiver but on that particular
11:44:24 note.
11:44:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The notes on the site plan
11:44:26 generally are written in like 2-point type so I think
11:44:29 it would be helpful in the future if there is some
11:44:31 kind of recognition that something this basic isn't
11:44:35 going to be provided, that it appear as part of the
11:44:38 DRC report, rather than just on the site plan.
11:44:41 But what I would like to do is ask the petitioner, how
11:44:44 many people --

11:44:49 >>CHAIRMAN: The public hearing is closed.
11:44:52 >> No,
11:44:54 We haven't close it.
11:44:59 >> It's already closed.
11:44:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No, I have a question.
11:45:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry, you had a question?
11:45:05 >> The public hearing is open.
11:45:09 >> Council, you should also bear in mind the
11:45:11 petitioner has a right to have a closing statement,
11:45:13 the opportunity for rebuttal.
11:45:15 >> Thanks.
11:45:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to ask a question of
11:45:19 petitioner.
11:45:20 And that is --
11:45:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Is the petitioner here?
11:45:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
11:45:23 There are two nine-story buildings.
11:45:26 What I am trying to figure out is, without a sidewalk,
11:45:30 which then allows access for public transportation of
11:45:33 pedestrians, everybody coming to this building will be
11:45:39 in a car, and you are building a ten-story parking
11:45:41 structure.

11:45:42 And my question is, how many people do you anticipate
11:45:45 will be in these buildings, I mean round numbers, like
11:45:48 300 or 8,000.
11:45:50 How many?
11:45:57 >>DAVID MECHANIK: Attorney for the applicant, for the
11:45:59 record.
11:46:01 I would just like to say the basis for the request for
11:46:04 determination that it's not practical is the fact
11:46:08 that --
11:46:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Turn your cell phone off.
11:46:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair.
11:46:19 >>DAVID MECHANIK: Along the right-of-way, there are
11:46:21 city wetland and mitigation areas that are governed by
11:46:26 the EPC, not by the city, and they are not certainly
11:46:30 within our control.
11:46:31 So the number of people didn't really enter into the
11:46:34 question of the fact that it was not feasible to build
11:46:38 a sidewalk in those particular areas.>> Eric Mueller,
11:46:48 320 West Kennedy Boulevard.
11:46:50 I have not been sworn in at this point.
11:46:53 So happy to do so.
11:46:55 (Oath administered by Clerk).>> yes, I do.

11:47:03 In direct responsible response to your question, there
11:47:06 are 1470 parking spaces that are as part of this
11:47:09 project.
11:47:10 How many people may be there at any given time,
11:47:13 subject to what the occupancy is to the project, and
11:47:16 subject to what time of day, et cetera, et cetera.
11:47:19 But there's the capacity to have 1470 occupants in
11:47:23 that building, or perhaps more if they were to car
11:47:27 pool. But in addition to that response, I did want to
11:47:29 share with you that we do have bike racks that are
11:47:32 proposed and planned as part of the project.
11:47:34 They just occur underneath the parking garage.
11:47:37 And that's why they don't appear on the site plan
11:47:39 itself, because the site plan just depicts the
11:47:42 footprint to the parking garage, but not configure to
11:47:48 the elements.
11:47:49 We chose to put the bike racks under the garage so
11:47:53 bikers would have their bikes protected from inclement
11:47:57 weather.
11:47:58 So if there are any other questions I would be happy
11:48:00 to respond to them.
11:48:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else like to speak?

11:48:03 We need to close.
11:48:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
11:48:06 >> second.
11:48:06 (Motion carried).
11:48:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Miranda, would you read that,
11:48:09 please?
11:48:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move to adopt the following
11:48:12 ordinance based upon second reading, an ordinance
11:48:14 rezoning property in the general vicinity of 1220 and
11:48:18 1280 north O'Brien street City of Tampa from zoning
11:48:23 district classifications M-AP-2 -- airport
11:48:28 compatibility district -- to PD planned development,
11:48:31 professional medical office, retail, hotel,
11:48:34 commercial, recreational facility, indoor, vocational
11:48:38 business school, providing an effective date.
11:48:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I am not going to support this
11:48:42 motion because I think it's really important if we are
11:48:44 going to have 1400 people working in the spot that we
11:48:46 provide alternative to just vehicles.
11:48:50 I think that sidewalks are critically important to
11:48:52 Westshore instead has been completed, they are
11:48:56 expanding the scope of it, for that reason I will not

11:48:58 be able to support this.
11:48:59 I am thrilled about the bike racks.
11:49:01 >>CHAIRMAN: Vote and record.
11:49:04 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena voting no
11:49:14 and Dingfelder being absent at vote.
11:49:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
11:49:18 wants to speak on item 65?
11:49:20 >> If I may for the record, please state that the
11:49:24 certified site plan is on file.
11:49:26 The previous item that you just voted on required a
11:49:30 change to the site plan.
11:49:32 Those site plans were submitted and the clerk has a
11:49:35 copy of that.
11:49:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:49:36 Would anyone else like to speak?
11:49:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close 65.
11:49:43 >> Second.
11:49:43 (Motion carried)
11:49:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move an ordinance rezoning property
11:49:51 in the general vicinity of 7135 North Armenia Avenue
11:49:54 in the city of Tampa, Florida and more particularly
11:49:56 described in section 1 from zoning district

11:49:58 classifications CG commercial general and RS-50
11:50:01 residential single family to RO-1 residential office
11:50:04 professional office, providing an effective date.
11:50:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
11:50:07 Vote and record.
11:50:18 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with
11:50:20 Dingfelder being absent at vote.
11:50:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
11:50:26 wants to speak on item number 66?
11:50:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
11:50:29 >> second.
11:50:29 (Motion carried).
11:50:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move an ordinance rezoning property
11:50:37 in the general vicinity of 306 west Curtis street in
11:50:40 the city of Tampa, Florida, more particularly
11:50:42 described from section 1 from zoning district
11:50:44 classifications RS-50 residential single family to PD,
11:50:48 planned development, single family detached
11:50:50 residential, providing an effective date.
11:50:52 >> Second.
11:50:52 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
11:50:54 Vote and record.

11:51:04 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder being
11:51:06 absent at vote.
11:51:07 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
11:51:09 wants to speak on item 67?
11:51:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
11:51:14 >>ABBYE FEELEY: This is another one of the items that
11:51:18 requires a site plan certification, the zoning
11:51:20 administrator has certified those and I will be
11:51:23 providing the clerk with a copy at this time.
11:51:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
11:51:27 >>CHAIRMAN: Motion and second to close.
11:51:28 (Motion carried)
11:51:30 Mr. Caetano, would you read that, please?
11:51:33 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Second reading of proposed
11:51:35 ordinance 67, an ordinance rezoning property in the
11:51:38 general vicinity of 5200 west Tyson Avenue in the city
11:51:42 of Tampa, Florida more particularly described in
11:51:44 section 1 from the zoning district classifications PD
11:51:48 planned development, marina and restaurant, private
11:51:51 Yacht Club, to PD, planned development, professional
11:51:54 office, marina and restaurant, private Yacht Club,
11:51:57 providing an effective date.

11:51:58 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
11:52:00 Vote and record.
11:52:12 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder being
11:52:14 absent at vote, and Mulhern and Saul-Sena voting no.
11:52:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
11:52:22 wants to speak on item 68?
11:52:23 >>ABBYE FEELEY: This is the last case today that also
11:52:28 had a modification between first and second reading,
11:52:32 the site plans have been certified by the zoning
11:52:34 administrator, and will now be provided to the clerk.
11:52:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
11:52:39 >> second.
11:52:39 (Motion carried).
11:52:39 >>MARY MULHERN: I move to adopt an ordinance being
11:52:47 presented for second reading, an ordinance rezoning
11:52:49 property in the general vicinity of 1522 north Clark
11:52:52 Avenue in the city of Tampa, Florida and more
11:52:54 particularly described in section 1 from zoning
11:52:58 district classification RS-50 residential single
11:53:01 family to PD, planned development, dwelling, single
11:53:06 family attached, providing an effective date.
11:53:07 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.

11:53:10 Vote and record.
11:53:18 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder being
11:53:20 absent at vote.
11:53:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone that wants to speak on
11:53:25 item 69?
11:53:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
11:53:28 >> second.
11:53:28 (Motion carried).
11:53:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Move an ordinance upon second reading,
11:53:35 an ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity
11:53:37 of 5301 north Habana Avenue, and 2609 and 2611 crest
11:53:43 Avenue in the city of Tampa, Florida and more
11:53:45 particularly described in section 1 from zoning
11:53:48 district classifications PD planned development,
11:53:52 multifamily, professional office, to PD, planned
11:53:55 development, multifamily, professional office, medical
11:53:57 office, providing an effective date.
11:53:58 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
11:54:00 Vote and record.
11:54:10 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Dingfelder being
11:54:12 absent at vote.
11:54:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 70 is a continued public hearing.

11:54:16 Is there anyone in the public that wants to speak on
11:54:18 item 70?
11:54:21 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
11:54:22 >> Second.
11:54:22 (Motion carried).
11:54:23 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move the following ordinance for
11:54:32 adoption upon second reading.
11:54:34 An ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida making
11:54:36 revisions to chapter 27, zoning change code in the
11:54:42 city of Tampa, Florida for Tampa code of ordinances
11:54:46 repealing articles, I don't know what that is, 19, I
11:54:49 guess, XIX, the Channel District in its entirety, and
11:54:54 creating article 19, I guess again, the Channel
11:54:56 District, providing for repeal R of all ordinances in
11:55:00 conflict providing for severability, providing an
11:55:01 effective date.
11:55:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have had many conversations with
11:55:07 staff about this.
11:55:13 It's a start.
11:55:16 This ordinance gives City Council the ability every
11:55:19 six months to look at the bonus trade-offs to ensure
11:55:25 that what we are giving developers, what we are

11:55:28 trading off with developers, meets the desires of the
11:55:31 public.
11:55:32 What we have in this is a laundry list of potential
11:55:38 trade-offs.
11:55:39 What I would like to do is ensure that council takes a
11:55:43 look at this every six months, invites the public in
11:55:46 to hear what they want and make sure that the
11:55:48 trade-offs reflect what they want.
11:55:50 So I'm willing to support this.
11:55:51 But immediately after, I would like to make a motion
11:55:54 that we set up some kind of public meeting to hear
11:55:56 from the public about what they want, so that we
11:55:59 aren't trading off something that the public could
11:56:01 care less about, and giving developers many, many
11:56:04 stories that the public isn't enthused about.
11:56:08 >>MARY MULHERN: I wasn't here when we started giving
11:56:13 away all this density, bonus density, in the
11:56:18 Channelside district.
11:56:19 But I just talked to three people yesterday who have
11:56:23 bought condos in Channelside, that they been able to
11:56:27 flip, they can't sell and mach their money back on.
11:56:29 We are talking about a district and a market that is

11:56:35 in really bad shape, and the last thing that we need
11:56:38 right there, right now, is bonus density.
11:56:41 I don't think -- I don't see any reason to be granting
11:56:45 bonus density for any reason.
11:56:47 I think we need to see that area continue to redevelop
11:56:52 by having people move in, having retail, having more
11:56:55 mixed use, not more condos, not more density.
11:56:58 We need to see parks there.
11:57:00 I just don't see any public reason to be giving away
11:57:06 bonus density right now.
11:57:08 We need to see that start to develop in a more
11:57:11 reasonable organic fashion, and it probably would be
11:57:15 in better shape today if we hadn't granted all those
11:57:19 bonus densities.
11:57:20 People have built compatible, smaller areas with
11:57:24 enough units that we would have been able to sell as
11:57:27 opposed to, you know, encouraging people to build way
11:57:32 too many, way too expensive condos that aren't going
11:57:35 to be occupied.
11:57:36 So I will not be voting for this.
11:57:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER:
11:57:48 Council worked on this thing for a long time, a couple

11:57:51 years now.
11:57:51 And I think that the laundry list of density
11:57:57 trade-off, I think, is very sound.
11:58:00 It speaks to park space.
11:58:02 It speaks to open space.
11:58:04 Developers often give you those things for free.
11:58:07 They are not going to buy a piece of property and make
11:58:10 half of it a park just to be nice.
11:58:13 They are only going to do it if you give them an
11:58:15 incentive.
11:58:16 And that's what this program is about.
11:58:18 It's about creating incentives and the trade-off and
11:58:22 this right now is bonus density.
11:58:24 We could come up with other trade-off mechanisms that
11:58:27 we talked about.
11:58:29 And we can work on improving this.
11:58:32 But I really think that this is a good idea.
11:58:35 I think that the increased density over there in
11:58:39 Channelside, and it might have been the difference
11:58:42 between, you know, a ten-story condo versus a 15-story
11:58:46 condo, or everyone a 20-story conned O.but at the end
11:58:49 of the day when you are walking down the street, you

11:58:51 know, unless you look up real hard, you don't know
11:58:54 that you are walking by a ten-story building versus a
11:58:56 15-story building.
11:58:58 It doesn't make a whole lot of difference.
11:59:00 Density downtown is the key to redeveloping this city.
11:59:03 I think it's a very positive thing.
11:59:05 And I don't think it matters whether or not it's
11:59:07 Channelside or downtown proper or Ybor City.
11:59:13 It's all the downtown core.
11:59:15 We need more density.
11:59:16 More density downtown, the more we can take the
11:59:18 pressure off of our suburban areas, like South Tampa,
11:59:22 in my district, or where you live, Mary, or where you
11:59:25 live, Linda, and some of the other neighborhoods, West
11:59:28 Tampa is starting to feel more pressure on the
11:59:30 density.
11:59:32 We can increase the density downtown -- well, I don't
11:59:34 know if everybody --
11:59:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I didn't say I was going to talk
11:59:40 about West Tampa.
11:59:44 They love people.
11:59:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Well, I guess I heard some people

11:59:50 in West Tampa start to moan about density too.
11:59:54 I think downtown should be the dense core.
11:59:56 We should do everything we can to encourage it.
11:59:58 The market will take care of the issues about prices,
12:00:04 bankruptcies.
12:00:05 Over the period of time the market will take care of
12:00:08 it.
12:00:08 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to close the public hearing.
12:00:11 >> Move to close.
12:00:12 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder, would you read that,
12:00:14 please?
12:00:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move an ordinance upon second
12:00:18 reading, an ordinance of the City of Tampa making
12:00:22 revisions to chapter 27 zoning code of the City of
12:00:25 Tampa code of ordinances repealing central business
12:00:30 districts CBD, periphery bonus, methodology,
12:00:34 calculation, list of bonus, providing for
12:00:39 severability, providing an effective date.
12:00:40 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
12:00:41 (Motion carried).
12:00:42 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Second reading, vote and record.
12:00:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Oh, vote and record.

12:00:52 Thank you, Mr. Shelby.
12:00:55 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern and Saul-Sena
12:00:58 voting no.
12:01:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like the city clerk to
12:01:01 bring back in 30 days, and then every six months after
12:01:05 that, automatically, the list of bonus densities and
12:01:09 the ratio of the investment of the developer versus
12:01:12 the dollar value of the density that they get, as part
12:01:17 of the calculation right now.
12:01:20 >> Would you like the city clerk to do it?
12:01:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: In 30 days and every six months
12:01:24 after that.
12:01:27 >> I'm sorry, asking the city clerk to bring that
12:01:28 back?
12:01:29 Or the zoning staff, I guess.
12:01:31 >> The administration.
12:01:32 I have asked the administration to bring back the list
12:01:35 of trade-offs, and the dollar ratio of what the person
12:01:40 is investing in this amenity versus how many -- how
12:01:44 much greater density they get.
12:01:46 Do you know what I'm talking about?
12:01:49 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development, Ford forth report

12:01:52 record.
12:01:52 You are trying to establish a trigger when we come
12:01:54 back to talk to you about this item?
12:01:57 >> Yes.
12:01:58 >>CATHERINE COYLE: For point of reference the text
12:01:59 amendment cycle is January 15th and July 15th.
12:02:02 >> I would recommend on a --
12:02:04 >>> I would recommend on a six-month cycle if you fall
12:02:07 on the odd quarter if we were to come back and report,
12:02:09 as opposed to being January, maybe we come back, you
12:02:12 know, March for the July cycle, and September for the
12:02:17 January cycle.
12:02:21 >> At this point we have this huge laundry list, so I
12:02:23 guess the end of October.>> is there a workshop
12:02:26 meeting in October?
12:02:28 >> Yes.
12:02:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can I make a friendly suggestion?
12:02:31 Why don't we do it on a regular basis 30 days before
12:02:34 the six-month meeting?
12:02:38 And then that way, going into the six-month meeting
12:02:41 you have the most recent information at your hands.
12:02:43 So, in other words, September, you get the information

12:02:47 in December, and would you be making your decisions in
12:02:49 January.
12:02:52 And then six months later same thing.
12:02:54 >> so the first meeting in --
12:02:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think we should do it at the CRA
12:02:59 meeting because it's the Channel District.
12:03:01 So maybe -- why don't we say the November CRA meeting.
12:03:10 This comes back at the November CRA meeting and
12:03:12 then --
12:03:14 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
12:03:20 Refer to him whether it can be under the CRA agenda
12:03:22 but I will say in terms of selecting staff as City
12:03:26 Council what you want placed within the six month
12:03:30 cycle, that really does need to come to council.
12:03:36 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Does the six month cycle, is that
12:03:39 automatically agendaed by the City Council?
12:03:42 Or is that done by land development?>> it's in the
12:03:47 code and also within the Channel District and within
12:03:48 the CBD periphery code itself, I'm obligated
12:03:53 semiannually to look at these items and meet with all
12:03:57 stakeholders, including council.
12:04:01 Code requires to do it.

12:04:02 >>MARTIN SHELBY: When would under the code, then, this
12:04:08 by design come back before City Council?
12:04:11 In other words, if you don't recommend any changes to
12:04:12 the bonus density, and if I understand Ms. Saul-Sena's
12:04:17 question, if you don't recommend or see any need to
12:04:20 propose density would it come back to council for
12:04:23 review automatically?
12:04:25 >>CATHERINE COYLE: It would in that cycle.
12:04:27 Just for clarification. Let's say we get to the
12:04:30 January cycle, January 15 --
12:04:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Let me talk about this.
12:04:35 >> it would be better than to try to figure it out
12:04:39 now.
12:04:39 >>GWEN MILLER: Council, we are at the 12 noon hour.
12:04:42 I would like to get a motion to do 72 and 73 before we
12:04:45 leave.
12:04:48 It won't take long.>> 72 I'll be removing.
12:04:56 >> So moved.
12:04:56 >> Second.
12:04:56 (Motion carried).
12:04:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I'm sorry to interrupt.
12:05:01 But also see that number 76 has been withdrawn.

12:05:04 I bring that to your attention.
12:05:06 And that number 74 and 75 are appeal hearings from the
12:05:09 zoning administrator.
12:05:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Right.
12:05:12 We'll do that at 1:30.
12:05:14 Ms. Coyle?
12:05:16 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
12:05:17 Item 72.
12:05:18 Those businesses have filed and paid the penalty fee,
12:05:22 just for the record.
12:05:23 I would ask you close the public hearing and take no
12:05:25 action.
12:05:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved to take no action.
12:05:29 >> Second.
12:05:29 (Motion carried).
12:05:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Do we have an ordinance for 73?
12:05:33 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I'm sorry, council.
12:05:37 A question.
12:05:37 Did we vote and record on number 71?
12:05:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It requires more discussion so come
12:05:48 back at 1:30.
12:05:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We voted.

12:05:52 >>GWEN MILLER: We voted.
12:05:57 >> It says 71.
12:05:58 >>GWEN MILLER: We voted on 71.
12:06:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: My mind tells me something, we
12:06:06 voted on 71.
12:06:07 We did not vote on 70.
12:06:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: But we were discussing 70.
12:06:12 >> Mr. Dingfelder read 71.
12:06:14 >> The chairman said, Mr. Dingfelder, read 71.
12:06:18 >> And I did 70.
12:06:19 I believe it is an error on 70, not 71.
12:06:21 Because the screen right now says 71 voted 5-2 which
12:06:26 is fine.
12:06:27 >> Mr. Dingfelder did read the 71.
12:06:29 CBD.
12:06:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I do what my chair tells me to do.
12:06:34 >> Good man.
12:06:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Let's vote on number 70.
12:06:37 We had a second.
12:06:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Excuse me, Madam Chairman, I'm very
12:06:41 unhappy because I wanted to discuss 71 and I would
12:06:43 like to do it after lunch.

12:06:45 Could we just bring back 70 and 71 and deal with it
12:06:47 after lunch?
12:06:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: In all due to everybody's respect I
12:06:52 will not be coming back.
12:06:54 A friend of mine passed away September 2nd.
12:06:56 Funeral is in Plant City and I'll be in Plant City.
12:06:59 >>GWEN MILLER: We already voted on 71.
12:07:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Shelby?
12:07:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I'm just very concerned that
12:07:10 votes did occur.
12:07:12 It has been announced.
12:07:13 And it is the responsibility of the clerk to have
12:07:15 those properly recorded.
12:07:17 And I would rather not have several different
12:07:20 viewpoints but council for the record make the
12:07:24 determination.
12:07:25 >>GWEN MILLER: All right.
12:07:27 Clerk, what have we voted on?
12:07:30 >>THE CLERK: Okay, according to my record, you voted
12:07:32 on item 70.
12:07:34 That's what the voting machine picked up.
12:07:41 He may have read 71.

12:07:42 But you actually voted on 70.
12:07:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But you can't do that that doesn't
12:07:49 make any sense.
12:07:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So I am not going mind crazy here,
12:07:53 I won't be coming back but I would appreciate if you
12:07:56 at least have the TV review what we just did, because
12:07:59 Mr. Dingfelder moved 71.
12:08:01 I think I seconded 71.
12:08:03 The vote was taken on 71.
12:08:04 On 70, the one that I moved, is the one that I believe
12:08:07 we did not vote on.
12:08:09 I may be incorrect.
12:08:10 But I don't think so.
12:08:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Can you go back to 70?
12:08:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Motion to reconsider 70 and 71.
12:08:20 >> Second.
12:08:20 (Motion carried).
12:08:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Would you read 70 again?
12:08:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
12:08:25 I move to adopt the following ordinance upon second
12:08:27 reading, an ordinance of the City of Tampa.
12:08:32 >> Second.

12:08:33 >> That you can.
12:08:33 Making revisions to chapter 27 zoning code of the City
12:08:36 of Tampa of ordinances repealing article, and I
12:08:40 remember saying 19, the Channel District in its
12:08:42 entirety, and creating article, I think it's 19, the
12:08:44 Channel District providing for repeal of all
12:08:46 ordinances in conflict, providing for severability,
12:08:49 providing an effective date.
12:08:50 >> I have a motion and second.
12:08:51 Vote and record when it comes up.
12:08:53 Vote and record.
12:08:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Wait, I made a mistake.
12:09:02 >>GWEN MILLER: All right.
12:09:06 Vote and record.
12:09:10 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern and Saul-Sena
12:09:18 voting no.
12:09:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move item 71 for second reading, an
12:09:24 ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida making
12:09:26 revisions to chapter 27 zoning code City of Tampa code
12:09:29 of ordinance removing section 27-329 from reservation
12:09:32 and stating as sections 27-329 central business
12:09:35 district CBD periphery bonus, methodology and

12:09:38 calculation, list of bonus amenities, providing for
12:09:41 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing for
12:09:43 severability, providing an effective date.
12:09:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you. This area, this
12:09:48 periphery, includes such diverse places as Harbor
12:09:50 Island, which is already set, Channel District, that
12:09:53 we already dealt with, Tampa Heights, which has
12:09:55 already been dealt with, and West Tampa, a riverfront
12:09:58 which I think would be shocked to death if they knew
12:10:00 we were thinking about density trade-offs for
12:10:03 riverfront.
12:10:04 I won't be supporting of it.
12:10:06 >> We have a motion and second.
12:10:08 Vote and record.
12:10:16 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern and Saul-Sena
12:10:18 voting no.
12:10:19 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 73, Ms. Kert, do you have an
12:10:23 ordinance?
12:10:24 >>REBECCA KERT: Yes.
12:10:25 The ordinance is for 2(COP-X).
12:10:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Give to the Mr. Caetano.
12:10:37 Mr. Caetano, read that, please.

12:10:39 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: An ordinance making lawful the
12:10:41 sale of beverages containing alcohol of more than 1%
12:10:44 by weight and not more than 14% by weight and wines
12:10:48 regardless of alcoholic content, beer and wine,
12:10:51 2(COP-X), for consumption on the premises only at or
12:10:56 from that certain lot, plot or tract of land located
12:11:00 at 4020 West Kennedy Boulevard, unit number 104,
12:11:06 Tampa, Florida, as more particularly described in
12:11:08 section 2 hereof, waiving certain restrictions, as to
12:11:12 distance based upon certain findings, providing for
12:11:15 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
12:11:17 effective date.
12:11:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Was this for -- when you do it for
12:11:30 a year.
12:11:30 Conditional.
12:11:31 I'm sorry.
12:11:32 Conditional?>> no.
12:11:33 What City Council had requested is they limit this to
12:11:35 a 2(COP-X).
12:11:39 It was a 2(COP).
12:11:41 You asked for -- that was not accepted by the
12:11:44 applicant but then you suggested a 2(COP-X) and he

12:11:48 consented.
12:11:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And when asked if he would have to
12:11:53 reapply, he goes, no.
12:11:55 >> All in favor.
12:11:56 Opposed, Nay.
12:11:57 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena voting no.
12:11:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 76 is going to be withdrawn.
12:12:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to allow the withdrawal.
12:12:08 >> second.
12:12:08 (Motion carried)
12:12:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Would you like to find out how long --
12:12:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have another meeting.
12:12:16 I need to go.
12:12:20 Come back at 1:30 as per our rules.
12:12:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
12:12:24 We will do the two hearings when we come back at 1:30.
12:12:27 >> I won't be here.
12:12:28 >> do you add the ten minutes extra, is it 1:40 or
12:12:33 come back at 1:30?
12:12:35 >>GWEN MILLER: 1:30.
12:12:36 So we will be in recess until 1:30.
12:12:39 (Meeting recessed)

12:12:39

Tampa City Council
Thursday, September 6, 2007
1:30 p.m. session

DISCLAIMER:
The following represents an unedited version of
realtime captioning which should neither be relied upon
for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
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result of third party edits and software compatibility
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13:39:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Tampa City Council is called back to
13:39:43 order.
13:39:44 Roll call.
13:39:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
13:39:51 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
13:39:52 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
13:39:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
13:39:55 We are going to go to item number 7 to open the appeal
13:40:00 hearing.

13:40:03 >> Move to open.
13:40:04 >> second.
13:40:04 (Motion carried).
13:40:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, did you want to swear in the
13:40:08 witnesses for 74 and 75?
13:40:11 >> Yes.
13:40:11 Anyone that's going to speak on 74 or 75 if you quo
13:40:14 please stand and raise your right hand.
13:40:16 (Oath administered by Clerk).
13:40:44 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
13:40:47 The staff report and site plans are going around right
13:40:49 now.
13:40:51 We are here this afternoon for an appeal.
13:41:10 The petitioner is appealing the denial that was made
13:41:13 to recent construction of a restaurant with drive-in
13:41:15 window located at 4006 east Hillsborough, 4005 east
13:41:21 Mohawk Avenue, for a drive-in window associated with a
13:41:24 restaurant.
13:41:27 The existing structure is located on the southern half
13:41:29 of the site and is supposed to be reconstructed more
13:41:32 towards the center of the site.
13:41:37 The site does contain additional storefront building

13:41:40 labeled storage on the site plan, you will notice it's
13:41:42 to the east.
13:41:43 It is grayed out with existing storage on it.
13:41:48 29 parking spaces, with access to both Hillsborough
13:41:52 and Mohawk.
13:41:53 The plans are show 2006.
13:42:03 If you will note we found it inconsistent.
13:42:06 There are many chapter 13 waivers that are needed.
13:42:10 One of the criteria, that you will note on page 2 of
13:42:13 the staff report, under general standards, item A-2,
13:42:19 that the use, special use of the district in which it
13:42:22 is proposed complies with all required regulations and
13:42:26 standards including the provisions of article 67.
13:42:30 I noted here that the site plan that is as proposed
13:42:34 does not comply with chapter 13.
13:42:36 Council does not have the ability to grant any the
13:42:40 waivers of chapter 13 through the appeal process.
13:42:42 What you are here for is the denial that was given,
13:42:48 access to a local street.
13:42:49 You will note that on page 3 of the report, 27-272,
13:43:00 drive-in windows, specifies use criteria.
13:43:06 Under A, the site shall have direct access.

13:43:09 It does main access to Hillsborough.
13:43:11 However, access to Mohawk is actually not permitted by
13:43:15 code.
13:43:15 They would need a waiver from that through this
13:43:17 process.
13:43:21 What I am cautioning council on this, because we are
13:43:23 finding it inconsistent from landscape perspective as
13:43:27 well and the landscape comments are attached to the
13:43:30 reports, that even if you were to grant access to
13:43:32 Mohawk, the site plan would have to be redone.
13:43:35 They are not meeting several provisions of the
13:43:37 landscape code.
13:43:39 If you deny the ability to grant any of those at this
13:43:41 time, it was strongly recommended through the review
13:43:45 process that the amendments to a planned development,
13:43:49 to be able to deal with all of these issues at the
13:43:51 same time, and that suggestion was rejected.
13:43:57 I also did note in the second bullet pointed that that
13:44:00 building next door that's listed as -- I'll show you
13:44:12 this picture.
13:44:14 This is the side of the proposed building.
13:44:23 It does have signage out front as well.

13:44:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is that a mobile?
13:44:38 [ Laughter ]
13:44:41 You will notice they are calling this a storage
13:45:01 building, although it does appear as a storefront.
13:45:04 Upon site visits, they can come out on the steps and
13:45:09 have lunch.
13:45:10 I just wanted it to be noted in the staff report this
13:45:13 particular building, everyone though it's not shown as
13:45:16 part of the development on the site plan, it is part
13:45:18 of a zoning law, and at no time can it be split off
13:45:23 from this parcel because it does not meet the minimum
13:45:26 CI zoning standards for lot area and lot width.
13:45:29 And the restaurant as shown has enough parking to
13:45:34 support both buildings, but there would be a need to
13:45:36 place a note on whatever site plan winds up getting
13:45:40 approved, that they share a parking.
13:45:43 And they may lose some of those parking spaces as well
13:45:46 in order to comply with chapter 13.
13:45:47 At the end of the day you have got an objection from
13:45:49 transportation for access on the Mohawk.
13:45:52 You have got an objection from Tampa Police Department
13:45:55 for that access on the Mohawk.

13:45:56 And I believe Veronica here is from TPD.
13:46:03 If you have any questions about her about her
13:46:04 objections she can certainly voice them.
13:46:07 She does have some additional video dealing with the
13:46:09 traffic issues on Mohawk.
13:46:11 Mohawk is a local street.
13:46:12 There is a residential immediately to the rear and a
13:46:14 daycare facility.
13:46:16 This is an interesting corner and heavily traveled.
13:46:21 You have those two objections.
13:46:22 You have the objection from landscape because they
13:46:24 clearly do not meet many of the provisions of that
13:46:26 code.
13:46:27 And you have got the denial by myself for not meeting
13:46:30 the criteria.
13:46:32 And as I said before, we did recommend they do a PD
13:46:35 and that was rejected.
13:46:36 I do have additional pictures if you would like to see
13:46:41 them.
13:46:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
13:46:45 Petitioner?
13:46:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Madam Chairman.

13:46:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Mrs. Saul-Sena.
13:46:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Oh, well ... move to close.
13:47:00 >>> They knew about it.
13:47:03 They were in the office yesterday.
13:47:05 They applied for the appeal.
13:47:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to close.
13:47:08 >> Second.
13:47:08 (Motion carried).
13:47:09 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
13:47:21 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Based on the extensive objection of
13:47:27 staff, specifically transportation, the Tampa Police
13:47:30 Department, and land use --
13:47:34 >> Second.
13:47:35 >> And the following criteria in section 27-272, I
13:47:38 move for denial.
13:47:43 Move to affirm the decision of staff.
13:47:46 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second for denial.
13:47:48 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
13:47:50 Opposed, Nay.
13:47:52 (Motion carried).
13:47:53 Need to open number 75.
13:47:55 >> Move to open.

13:47:56 >> Second.
13:47:56 (Motion carried)
13:48:10 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
13:48:11 This too is an appeal of the zoning administrator's
13:48:20 denial of the request for special use 1.
13:48:26 Located at 110 and 112 south 22nd street within the
13:48:31 Palmetto Beach area.
13:48:33 What they are requesting is multifamily residential, 5
13:48:37 units.
13:48:37 The structure as noted in the summary, while it is in
13:48:44 the CU zoning, it is a special use, residential units.
13:48:49 City permit records recognized three units on the site
13:48:52 according to the survey, R-5, the structure located at
13:48:58 110 south 22nd street, was built in 1925.
13:49:02 Structure located at 112 south 22nd was built in 1908.
13:49:06 Petitioner has committed to comply with solid waste,
13:49:08 landscape and sidewalk code requirements.
13:49:11 We did find this request consistent, even though it
13:49:14 was denied, and I'll note why.
13:49:17 If you notice in findings of fact, note 1, I did have
13:49:22 to deny it for failure to comply with setback
13:49:24 criteria.

13:49:25 You will note under the waiver section, which is what
13:49:28 you are considering today, the setbacks that are
13:49:30 needed to be waived are for existing structures.
13:49:35 These buildings are quite old, 1925 and 1908.
13:49:37 There really is no ability other than tearing the
13:49:40 structures down to comply with the setback criteria.
13:49:43 Other than that criteria, the site plan does comply
13:49:47 with all of our other regulations for landscape and
13:49:53 sidewalks and so on.
13:49:57 There is the need for waiver of one parking space,
13:49:59 which is actually an administrative request.
13:50:05 If council is in agreement to overturn my decision to
13:50:07 deny this, it would be granting a one parking space
13:50:10 waiver as allowed by code.
13:50:12 I do have the aerial photograph.
13:50:14 You will see this on 22nd street to the south.
13:50:21 There's a large structure.
13:50:24 I couldn't tell exactly what it is, it looks like a
13:50:27 cigar factory, and you see multiple structures on very
13:50:32 small lots.
13:50:32 You see across the street here more of a two-family
13:50:36 type style, commercial on some of the various other

13:50:40 corners right across the street.
13:50:42 We are available for any comments or questions.
13:50:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Questions by council members?
13:50:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just want to say, these are
13:50:51 historic structures, in a historic neighborhood, and I
13:50:54 think that this will allow them to continue being
13:50:57 there legally.
13:51:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
13:51:15 Before you begin, would you put your name on the
13:51:41 record?
13:51:42 >> DIHARI, and last name is KAMRA.
13:52:02 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
13:52:02 >> thank you.
13:52:03 I would like to show some location.
13:52:30 (off microphone)
13:52:32 22nd street.
13:52:36 It used to be cafe but no longer.
13:52:42 New development.
13:52:53 This is the picture.
13:53:07 Looking from the south side, the second picture also,
13:53:29 looking from the south side.
13:53:31 He asked me what it is, and he owned the property,

13:54:29 On August 9 around 4 p.m., and he has no objection.
13:54:44 He and other gentleman, they own property on Stuart,
13:54:52 250 feet distance, and he expressed no objection.
13:54:58 I received one more phone call, she had objection of
13:55:06 little cafe.
13:55:10 I talked to her and she suggested no parking in that
13:55:22 area.
13:55:25 I said if any other objection let us know.
13:55:37 That's all.
13:55:42 Thank you.
13:55:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
13:55:43 Would anyone else like to speak?
13:55:44 You may come up and speak now.
13:55:48 .
13:55:59 >>> My name is Darleen Grumond, president of the
13:56:07 Palmetto Beach association, come today to speak on
13:56:09 behalf of item 75.
13:56:10 This gentleman that just -- the property owner, these
13:56:14 are single-family homes and he has chopped them up
13:56:18 into multifamily living areas.
13:56:21 The home at 110 has five units and only has two
13:56:27 electrical meters, which is supplying electricity to

13:56:30 five units.
13:56:32 Adjacent to this 110, there is a garage which he
13:56:36 converted into an apartment.
13:56:39 So he has multiple families living at 110.
13:56:44 There are five units in that building alone.
13:56:47 The one next to it on 112, it was a single-family
13:56:51 home, it has a garage in the back, he has three units.
13:56:56 The house itself has been split into two units.
13:56:58 The garage has been converted in two, and apartments,
13:57:02 one electrical meter that supplies electricity to this
13:57:07 home, and to these families.
13:57:13 I have not objected to people buying property that
13:57:15 will upgrade our community, allow single-families to
13:57:20 move in, raise their children as I was raised, I was
13:57:23 born and raised in Palmetto Beach, I know this area
13:57:26 very well.
13:57:26 This gentleman owns 20 properties in our community,
13:57:30 and just off the top of my head, there's at least
13:57:32 three more properties that he owns that have been
13:57:34 converted, and they are single-family homes, into
13:57:39 multiply used properties which have been done
13:57:42 illegally.

13:57:42 And I am very much against, and I hope City Council
13:57:45 will deny this gentleman his special use permit, and
13:57:51 make him return these properties to their original
13:57:53 state.
13:57:54 Because the residential, we have these Magnolia oak
13:58:03 which is going to build these beautiful condos in our
13:58:05 neighborhood, and what we wanted to do was bring
13:58:09 families into our area, have IKEA come in.
13:58:15 It's part of my community that we are doing -- you
13:58:18 know, we are having a lot of good things coming in.
13:58:21 I don't want my community to be another suitcase city.
13:58:24 And that's exactly -- not only this gentleman but
13:58:29 there's other property owners that have done the same
13:58:31 thing.
13:58:31 And I hope that somewhere in the city, someone can do
13:58:36 something to stop these property owners from
13:58:39 converting single-family homes into multi-use.
13:58:43 Just to line their pockets full of money.
13:58:46 Their best interest is not in the Palmetto Beach
13:58:48 community.
13:58:49 It's within themselves.
13:58:50 Thank you.

13:58:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Ma'am, I have a question.
13:58:55 When you look -- when you look at the buildings on
13:59:00 22nd street, the homes, do they look like homes?
13:59:03 Or do they look like they have been chopped up into
13:59:05 apartments?
13:59:06 >>> Well, 110-22nd street, miraculously it has two
13:59:12 font doors now.
13:59:14 Second front door was not there, I am going to say
13:59:16 like maybe eight months ago.
13:59:19 It's there now.
13:59:20 There's a lot of traffic.
13:59:21 There's a lot of, you know, coming and going of
13:59:24 people.
13:59:28 They move in and out of the property.
13:59:29 The resident that lived there adjacent to the alley
13:59:34 had her fence knocked down, had her car hit by other
13:59:36 vehicles that come and use that alleyway.
13:59:39 There's a lot of people that walk back and forth.
13:59:42 It's like it's too dense for this small area.
13:59:48 >> Is Palmetto Beach protected by any kind of historic
13:59:51 designation or overlay?
13:59:54 >>> We are eligible to become a historical district

13:59:58 but it has never been implemented.
14:00:00 >> Isn't that part of the study that the expressway
14:00:03 authority is doing, as part of the connection that
14:00:06 they are working on?
14:00:07 Aren't they looking at protecting Palmetto Beach?
14:00:10 >>> Yes, they are.
14:00:11 >> Do you know what the time frame for that is?
14:00:13 >>> I do not know, Ms. Saul-Sena.
14:00:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Caetano?
14:00:18 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Ma'am, may I ask you a question,
14:00:22 please?
14:00:23 Have you checked with the building department to see
14:00:25 if these units have complied with the building
14:00:26 department for these renovations that they have made?
14:00:29 >>> Well, sir, I will be honest with you, I was the
14:00:31 one that walked through these buildings with the code
14:00:34 enforcement officer, and that is the reason why this
14:00:37 gentleman is here before you today.
14:00:39 And this is why I know firsthand of what I'm talking
14:00:42 about, because I walked through those homes.
14:00:45 In fact, at 112, there's a side entrance which on the
14:00:49 outside of the door has a B which means apartment B.

14:00:53 When I walked in, there was a big gaping hole in the
14:00:56 wall, and I would say it was below standard for anyone
14:01:00 to live in.
14:01:01 I do not know if that has been repaired since then.
14:01:04 The other apartment that I walked in, the lady that
14:01:08 lived in there had a leak in her roof which the water
14:01:11 was dripping on her bed.
14:01:13 And it had been leaking for two weeks.
14:01:15 And she's constantly complained to the new owner,
14:01:21 which did not remedy her problem until he was ready to
14:01:27 do it.
14:01:28 So I would say it was like in deplorable condition,
14:01:31 and this type of business or action by a property
14:01:39 owner or landlord, I think, is very unacceptable.
14:01:45 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Thank you.
14:01:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else like to speak?
14:01:48 >> Maggie McDonald, 2208 Corrine street in Tampa.
14:01:57 My street is one street north of the petitioner's
14:02:01 property.
14:02:02 There aren't any multifamily dwellings on my street
14:02:05 other the boarding house on the corner of 22nd and
14:02:10 Corrine.

14:02:11 To the south, on the south side of Corrine, is a
14:02:14 convenience store.
14:02:16 Because of the traffic created by those two
14:02:19 properties, the city traffic department came out and
14:02:22 put in no traffic sign on that street so you couldn't
14:02:28 park up to the stop sign on the corner.
14:02:30 This is in an area that can handle a lot of
14:02:33 multifamily traffic, or dwelling, and that's why I'm
14:02:36 here as opposed to it.
14:02:38 I'm also the secretary on the board for the Palmetto
14:02:40 Beach association.
14:02:43 As Darleen mentioned, the petitioner owns 20
14:02:46 properties in Palmetto Beach, and I have run off a
14:02:49 list of all those properties, he owns them inside
14:02:53 different LLCs.
14:02:55 Only one of the 20 properties was purchased directly
14:02:58 by the petitioner.
14:02:59 The other ones were purchased by a third party,
14:03:04 subsequently quilt claimed to the petitioner, who then
14:03:07 quitclaimed the properties to this individual LLC.
14:03:12 He also has a construction company.
14:03:15 Whether or not the construction company has anything

14:03:17 to do with the renovations that he's made to these
14:03:20 homes, I don't know.
14:03:21 But the majority of the homes don't look like the
14:03:26 quality of homes that we want in our neighborhood.
14:03:29 Our neighborhood is basically single-family, and
14:03:31 that's the way we would like to keep it.
14:03:33 We are trying to make it better.
14:03:36 In my opinion, the petitioner isn't of that mind-set.
14:03:40 Thank you.
14:03:40 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, if I can, just a reminder,
14:03:44 that you are looking at this particular property, and
14:03:46 to go beyond that would not be appropriate for the
14:03:50 issue that's before you today.
14:03:53 Which is a particular special use.
14:03:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So Mr. Shelby, you are saying we
14:04:01 can look at this issue in the context of the
14:04:08 surrounding property.
14:04:10 We shouldn't judge it on the basis of what other
14:04:13 properties he owns elsewhere in the neighborhood and
14:04:15 how he maintains them.
14:04:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, and to go beyond that in terms
14:04:21 of relevance of how its structured and the fact he

14:04:23 owns them under a different LLC, that sort of thing.
14:04:28 >>> Madam Chair and council, my name is Ken Larson.
14:04:31 I own the PRIMA cigar factory across the street.
14:04:38 The situation there is -- Palmetto Beach, 22nd street
14:04:45 was originally designed to be a neighborhood
14:04:47 commercial.
14:04:48 All the little houses in the background were zoned
14:04:50 duplex back before World War II.
14:04:53 About 18 years ago, of course I came on the scene in
14:04:55 '82.
14:04:58 They rezoned all the houses there for single-family
14:05:02 dwelling which was an effort to improve the quality of
14:05:04 the people in the area.
14:05:06 The duplex zoning was contrary to improving Palmetto
14:05:10 Beach.
14:05:12 And this particular request by this gentleman is very
14:05:16 much detrimental to the neighborhood.
14:05:24 There's parking on one side of the street, on Stuart,
14:05:27 which is the two properties, and you can't park on
14:05:33 22nd street.
14:05:34 So there's no parking off street and they end up in
14:05:36 our parking lot on the grass on the north side which

14:05:39 is a problem.
14:05:43 The sorts of people that are attracted to living in
14:05:45 these kind of conditions are not the most desirable.
14:05:48 They are single men that have alcohol problems, that I
14:05:50 can see, just the things that go on there.
14:05:54 We are trying to improve the neighborhood, and for 25
14:05:56 years now we have been trying to operate a cigar
14:06:01 factory with small business in mind.
14:06:03 And that seems to be a very worthwhile thing, because
14:06:07 we are a business center for small business,
14:06:09 affordable space that has survived and prospered and
14:06:15 probably should be a model, what to do with old cigar
14:06:18 factories because we have never gotten any
14:06:19 governmental help of any kind and we pay our taxes and
14:06:22 have a fine stock of clientele in the place.
14:06:28 I'm just looking at the petitioner -- people that
14:06:35 didn't have any objection.
14:06:36 Three of those people are not even from the area.
14:06:38 Their zip codes are 609, 615.
14:06:43 There are probably friends ever his, I imagine, but
14:06:46 they are not people that live in Palmetto Beach.
14:06:48 Zip code there is 33605.

14:06:50 So the people that don't object aren't the one that is
14:06:53 live there.
14:06:55 I would certainly appreciate if we could deny his
14:06:57 request.
14:06:59 It's so neighborhood commercial, and small business is
14:07:04 what's really desirable if you are going to do
14:07:06 something other than what the house is, a single
14:07:08 family house.
14:07:09 It's been done on the street where there's a novelty
14:07:12 company.
14:07:13 They took an older house like that, renovated it, they
14:07:16 put a small business in there, and that's an excellent
14:07:19 use.
14:07:19 But to make a flop house out of an old structure is
14:07:23 just detrimental to the neighborhood.
14:07:25 I would like to see it denied very much.
14:07:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else like to speak?
14:07:31 Petitioner, do you want to come back and say something
14:07:33 else?
14:07:42 >>> Thank you, council.
14:07:47 Let me tell you that no single outstanding code
14:07:52 enforcement against me for any of the properties I

14:07:56 manage.
14:07:58 I maintain -- I would know if somebody is doing like
14:08:06 this.
14:08:09 I can bring people to tell you how do I maintain
14:08:11 property.
14:08:19 The leak, been there day and night before that,
14:08:24 because for maintenance, the moment it was reported to
14:08:28 me, we found out there was an upstairs leak in the
14:08:38 wall, the water was seeping, and it would show up when
14:08:43 they were using it and not show up when they were not
14:08:47 using it.
14:08:49 It showed up, and had has been repaired long time ago.
14:08:55 It's not like that.
14:08:56 Anything that is told to me it is taken to recycle.
14:09:04 I maintain my property very well.
14:09:08 And these properties, it is qualified for the zoning.
14:09:16 Special use for the multifamily.
14:09:24 And my aim, I'm planning in one of the place to live
14:09:44 there.
14:09:46 It's not I'm going to walk away.
14:09:48 No.
14:09:50 So I'm responsive.

14:10:04 Meet with the rules of the zoning.
14:10:11 Thank you.
14:10:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Questions by council members?
14:10:14 Ms. Saul-Sena?
14:10:15 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question for staff.
14:10:26 If this gentleman wanted to use, let's say, the
14:10:29 single-family homes for single-family use couldn't he
14:10:33 come back to council with a request for a PD and
14:10:39 accomplish different uses?
14:10:40 You could have residential uses if that was what was
14:10:47 requested under a CD?
14:10:55 >>CATHERINE COYLE: The permit records that we have
14:10:56 recognize three units on the property.
14:10:59 There have been two additional units that have been
14:11:02 added, sometime.
14:11:08 >> Without permit?
14:11:10 >>> Basically without permit.
14:11:11 He's trying to lock in the five units that exist on
14:11:13 the property.
14:11:14 I just want to be clear when you look at the site
14:11:16 plan, what he is committing to on this site plan,
14:11:25 there are three units.

14:11:26 There are three units at 110 south 22nd and the garage
14:11:32 is going to be converted to a garage and storage.
14:11:37 And 112 is a duplex within that building and the
14:11:40 building in the rear is also going to be converted to
14:11:43 storage.
14:11:43 What he's committing to council is that these two will
14:11:46 no longer be units.
14:11:47 He's going to reduce this to five units total.
14:11:52 Even if this were denied, he would still have three
14:11:57 units on the property.
14:11:57 And I want to be clear, the property is zoned CG.
14:12:00 It's not zoned neighborhood commercial, not zoned
14:12:04 single-family.
14:12:04 It is zoned commercial general, which allows an array
14:12:07 of uses.
14:12:09 So essentially if you were to overturn my decision,
14:12:13 and give him the five units, he would be held to the
14:12:16 site plan that you have before you.
14:12:18 If you were to deny him, he would have to remove two
14:12:21 of the units, but the property would stay
14:12:24 configurationwise just how it is today.
14:12:28 >> Thank you for the clarification.

14:12:29 >>CHAIRMAN: Other questions by council members?
14:12:31 We need to close the public hearing.
14:12:34 >> Move to close.
14:12:34 >> second.
14:12:35 (Motion carried).
14:12:37 >>GWEN MILLER: What's the pleasure of council?
14:12:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move to uphold the
14:12:42 staff recommendation of denial.
14:12:44 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and question.
14:12:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It's a pleasure to be on the same
14:12:51 side as Mr. Larson this time.
14:12:53 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion say Aye.
14:12:55 Opposed, Nay.
14:12:56 (Motion carried)
14:12:57 We are going back to item number 13.
14:13:16 Mr. Shelby?
14:13:17 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Number 13 is the final rules of
14:13:18 procedure in final form presented to you.
14:13:21 Change being requested is to add a sentence that says
14:13:24 except for emergency meetings if necessary, City
14:13:26 Council shall not meet during the first and second
14:13:29 week of the month of July, which is just formalizing

14:13:34 council's custom.
14:13:35 I would also suggest that council take out the word
14:13:39 annually from the second sentence -- excuse me, the
14:13:41 last sentence that says all scheduled meetings, I'm on
14:13:44 page 4, of adjustments approved, I will remove the
14:13:49 word annually because council should be able to do it
14:13:51 more than once a year -- more than once a year if it
14:13:54 needs to, by city clerk.
14:13:57 Other than catching a scrivener's error on page 10 I
14:13:59 believe it reflects council's direction to me at last
14:14:03 week's meeting.
14:14:04 It would be my recommendation that you read the title
14:14:07 of the resolution.
14:14:08 It will come back to council in two weeks.
14:14:12 When you will read it again.
14:14:13 Effective date of the resolution is October 1st,
14:14:16 2007.
14:14:21 And I have a substitution for the clerk who has the
14:14:23 changes.
14:14:26 Essentially remove the other one.
14:14:29 Council, you might want to take up the issue of the
14:14:32 calendar, which is item number 14, at a future date.

14:14:39 I want to bring to your attention, I spoke with Ms.
14:14:42 Foxx-Knowles about this.
14:14:44 With regard to October, the month of October and
14:14:46 November, there doesn't need to be any adjustment,
14:14:51 your schedule works fine.
14:14:52 In the month of December there's only one evening
14:14:54 meeting scheduled and no workshop date.
14:14:56 January probably needs to be adjusted.
14:15:02 February, March and April and May appear to be fine.
14:15:06 With the fact there will be no meeting on the
14:15:08 29th.
14:15:09 June, there is a concern about how long the break
14:15:13 would be.
14:15:13 I would request council, perhaps this being given to
14:15:16 you today, that you take a look at the October --
14:15:20 excuse me, take a look at this calendar, when we come
14:15:23 back for a second reading of the rules to adopt them,
14:15:27 that we could see if this meets with your approval and
14:15:30 fine tune and tweak it, to be able to set it forth,
14:15:34 unless you want to do it today.
14:15:35 It's council's pleasure.
14:15:37 Ms. Foxx-Knowles is here prepared to go over it with

14:15:40 you today if you like.
14:15:42 But my suggestion --
14:15:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: On removing items from the agenda,
14:15:53 that talk about the language says remove items.
14:16:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, that's put in there.
14:16:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I thought we put that to bed last
14:16:10 week.
14:16:13 That was the subject of a motion.
14:16:14 >> that language.
14:16:16 At least that's my understanding unless I'm wrong.
14:16:20 But with regard to -- madam clerk, do you have the
14:16:23 information?
14:16:26 My understanding is the direction to me was add the
14:16:28 word "attempt to."
14:16:34 >> Could you give us a reference?
14:16:37 >>> Let me get the exact page.
14:16:39 >> Do we have another copy of this, in all these
14:16:41 papers today, I can't find mine.
14:16:50 It's on page 11, rule 7-C, the paragraph reads an
14:17:23 individual member of council wanting to remove an item
14:17:25 from the committee report of said agenda should
14:17:27 attempt to do so a day or more in advance of the

14:17:30 meeting by notifying the members of council.
14:17:32 The clerk and the chief of staff by memorandum or
14:17:35 e-mail stating whether a member of council wishes
14:17:38 staff to be present to discuss the item.
14:17:40 I believe the motion was to add the word "attempt to,"
14:17:46 to insert those two words, and that was the direction
14:17:48 I received.
14:17:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have to compliment Mr. Shelby on
14:18:00 doing Yeoman's work.
14:18:03 I would like to move this resolution as amended.
14:18:05 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Do you have a question with regard to
14:18:08 the calendar?
14:18:16 The way council's breaks falls, Florida League of
14:18:20 Cities, the summer recess, will necessarily affect the
14:18:25 order, or the number of hearings, of meeting dates
14:18:29 that you have during the month.
14:18:30 And the clerk is prepared to go through that with you.
14:18:33 So my suggestion will be council should be on notice
14:18:43 of that.
14:18:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And Mr. Shelby, putting out the
14:18:49 first two weeks of July would officially be
14:18:51 council's --

14:18:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's good.
14:18:56 Secondly, Madam Chair, council, I know when I first
14:18:59 came the issue but when you want to use council
14:19:02 chambers, to make sure that we have preference of this
14:19:07 council chamber, that you do have that set now on the
14:19:09 calendar.
14:19:14 When I came, I want to make sure that the calendar
14:19:20 reflects that.
14:19:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did you want to, before you move the
14:19:32 resolution, discuss the calendar?
14:19:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move the resolution
14:19:36 then deal with the calendar.
14:19:40 >> Do you have the resolution?
14:19:47 >> The resolution of rules of procedure for City
14:19:55 Council, rescinding previous resolutions setting forth
14:19:59 procedures, providing an effective date.
14:20:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
14:20:03 (Motion carried)
14:20:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Again that will come back in two
14:20:09 weeks.
14:20:09 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Good afternoon.
14:20:15 City clerk.

14:20:16 Wanted to review your proposed council calendar.
14:20:21 And with the proposed council calendar, the following
14:20:24 will take place.
14:20:27 You will have your regular session on the first and
14:20:30 third Thursday of each month.
14:20:33 On the second Thursday you will have CRA, and a p.m.
14:20:40 session.
14:20:41 On the fourth Thursday, you would have a workshop and
14:20:45 a p.m. session.
14:20:49 There are five fifth Thursdays between October 2007
14:20:54 and December 31st, 2008.
14:20:58 They are in November, January '08, May '08, July '08
14:21:05 and October '08.
14:21:08 Let's start with October.
14:21:16 As you will see from the calendar as noticed, there
14:21:19 are -- you will have your regular session.
14:21:23 On the 11th, there is one commendation to Carol
14:21:31 Kossar.
14:21:34 I don't know if you want to reschedule that.
14:21:39 >> I think I am rescheduling.
14:21:46 >> We are going to reschedule it to the 27th.
14:21:49 >> Of what?

14:21:52 October?
14:21:53 >> September.
14:21:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
14:21:58 >> Is it September?
14:22:01 >>> Yes.
14:22:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Right now, she's October 11th.
14:22:06 So are you going earlier or later?
14:22:10 It must be September.
14:22:13 >> Yes:
14:22:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Take it off of October.
14:22:22 >> September 27th.
14:22:24 (off microphone).
14:22:26 >> Second.
14:22:26 (Motion carried).
14:22:27 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Also, on the 25th, on your
14:22:31 workshop date, you have a workshop regarding the
14:22:37 transit system.
14:22:40 25th of October.
14:22:56 (off microphone).
14:23:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay, scratch that off.
14:23:03 >>MARY MULHERN: The new date, I'm going to wait.
14:23:08 I make a motion to take that off.

14:23:10 >> Motion and second.
14:23:11 (Motion carried)
14:23:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Shirley, on October 25th, in
14:23:17 the purple there, in my name it says staff report and
14:23:22 unfinished business.
14:23:23 Is that left over from some prior motion?
14:23:29 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Yes.
14:23:30 That motion was made by you and Ms. Saul-Sena.
14:23:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Must be a good one then.
14:23:35 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: It's related to -- and let me
14:23:38 tell you what they are related to.
14:23:40 It's related to an interlocal agreement dealing with
14:23:47 zoning issues near the city's border.
14:23:50 >> Why don't we make that the first meeting in
14:23:52 November?
14:23:53 Because don't we want to have all the staff reports on
14:23:57 regularly scheduled council meetings?
14:24:00 >> So you want them moved?
14:24:01 Is that just one or was there two?
14:24:04 >> I'll tell you, the second one has to do with
14:24:07 affordable housing opportunities.
14:24:08 >> that sounds longer than five minutes.

14:24:14 >> Whose motion was that?
14:24:15 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: It was Saul-Sena and Scott.
14:24:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think that affordable housing is
14:24:20 something that needs more than five minutes.
14:24:23 So I would like to keep that on October 25th, but
14:24:30 have it not under -- not as a staff report.
14:24:33 Well, we could call it whatever you want to, but I
14:24:35 would like to give it 30 minutes at least.
14:24:37 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: So you want it as a workshop?
14:24:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Of course we have all these 9:00
14:24:43 o'clocks.
14:24:45 How are you going do Todd Pressman do 30 minutes?
14:24:48 We have nine, nine, nine.
14:24:51 How can we have three things at nine?
14:24:53 >> Well, make them at nine, ten and eleven.
14:24:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I was under the impression on our
14:25:01 workshop days that we were focused primarily on
14:25:04 workshops and not on staff reports and that sort of
14:25:06 thing.
14:25:07 >> Right.
14:25:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I don't understand how that's under
14:25:11 staff reports here.

14:25:12 >> They were left over.
14:25:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: They might have been set council
14:25:16 decided.
14:25:18 If that's 60 days or 90 days out.
14:25:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: My suggestion would be 6:00 on the
14:25:25 WMBE, nine o'clock, then --
14:25:31 >>GWEN MILLER: We have two at nine.
14:25:35 >> Just do nine, ten and eleven.
14:25:37 >>GWEN MILLER: Change that.
14:25:38 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Do you need a motion to that?
14:25:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: The WMBE we need two hours on that.
14:25:47 >>GWEN MILLER: We have nine, ten and eleven.
14:25:50 >> Based on your comments I think that affordable
14:25:52 housing requires more conversation.
14:25:54 I will move to remove that to that day.
14:25:56 And to a different time in the future.
14:25:58 So we have WMBE at nine, and Lake Kipling at eleven.
14:26:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What was the one was my motion,
14:26:10 Shirley?
14:26:11 I need to do something with that.
14:26:12 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: The zoning issue near the
14:26:14 city's border.

14:26:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let's find a place for that.
14:26:17 >>GWEN MILLER: We need a motion for that.
14:26:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move that to November, regular City
14:26:25 Council session.
14:26:25 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to take it off at nine.
14:26:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let's start with the first motion.
14:26:31 I move that WMBE be -- start at nine.
14:26:35 As a workshop.
14:26:36 And then Lake Kipling will start at eleven.
14:26:43 >> Second.
14:26:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
14:26:44 (Motion carried)
14:26:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And then in regard to the staff
14:26:49 report on intercounty zoning issues, whatever that is,
14:26:58 we will move that to November 1st, whatever that
14:27:00 is, regular board meeting.
14:27:01 That's a motion.
14:27:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
14:27:03 (Motion carried)
14:27:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Then there was one other.
14:27:08 >> We have affordable housing.
14:27:10 I'll just make the affordable housing on November --

14:27:13 move to -- okay.
14:27:16 December.
14:27:19 We didn't have any council meetings then?
14:27:34 We have got some other big things on November 29.
14:27:37 Let's go ahead and put affordable housing.
14:27:39 I move that we have this discussion with affordable
14:27:41 housing at 9 a.m. on November 29th.
14:27:47 As a workshop.
14:27:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
14:27:49 (Motion carried)
14:27:55 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Thank you.
14:27:56 Moving on to November, we have a regular session on
14:28:00 the first, CRA on the 8th, and an evening session
14:28:06 on the 15th, a regular session, of course no
14:28:12 meeting on Thanksgiving, and the fifth Thursday we
14:28:18 have a workshop and an evening session.
14:28:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I could have sworn we put something
14:28:28 on that date and I just can't quite remember it.
14:28:32 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Let me tell you what you have
14:28:33 on there.
14:28:34 >>GWEN MILLER: What's the workshop?
14:28:36 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: On the 29th.

14:28:38 >>GWEN MILLER: What is that?
14:28:40 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: The 29th you have four
14:28:42 staff reports.
14:28:44 They are dealing with city water service areas.
14:28:51 And it was a motion by Dingfelder and Saul-Sena.
14:29:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll move to strike that.
14:29:06 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
14:29:08 9 motion and second.
14:29:09 (Motion carried)
14:29:12 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: The second item has to do with
14:29:13 the program quarterly reports.
14:29:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We know we are going to have a
14:29:26 9:00 a.m., right?
14:29:28 So what else do we have scheduled for that morning?
14:29:35 We are talking about an hour.
14:29:38 If you don't have any other workshops.
14:29:50 >>MARY MULHERN: This is what I think we are going to
14:29:52 do for transportation.
14:29:56 Set up two different meetings, in the evening, one for
14:30:00 the Howard-Armenia neighborhood and one for the
14:30:03 Florida-Tampa neighborhood.
14:30:07 And set it up so that it's a publicly noticed meeting,

14:30:13 and any of the council members that would like to be
14:30:16 there.
14:30:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The star report can be, I think,
14:30:27 really short.
14:30:28 I move to put the STAR report at the beginning of our
14:30:31 December --
14:30:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Let's hear what else she had on that
14:30:34 day.
14:30:34 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: TDR, transfer development
14:30:40 rights.
14:30:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's long.
14:30:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Then the last one?
14:30:46 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: The last one, historic grid,
14:30:48 Ybor City.
14:30:49 That was a motion made by Miranda and Dingfelder.
14:30:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So the quarterly star report, moved
14:31:01 that to --
14:31:05 >> I don't mean to interrupt but the December 6th
14:31:07 regular council meeting, one staff report.
14:31:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The star program report, move to
14:31:15 December 6th.
14:31:16 >> Second.

14:31:17 (Motion carried).
14:31:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That leaves three issues,
14:31:24 affordable housing, TDR, historic grid.
14:31:28 Do you want to go nine, ten, eleven on those three?
14:31:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
14:31:32 Second.
14:31:34 >> Affordable housing, TDR, historic grid --
14:31:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We already voted.
14:31:44 We voted.
14:31:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But nine, ten and eleven.
14:31:50 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
14:31:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It's not a limit.
14:31:54 It's suggested.
14:31:57 Affordable housing at nine, transfer development
14:32:00 rights at ten, and Ybor historic grid at eleven.
14:32:06 That's the motion.
14:32:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
14:32:09 (Motion carried).
14:32:10 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: In December, the month looks
14:32:18 normal.
14:32:19 Your last meeting will be on December 20th.
14:32:25 You will not have a workshop day.

14:32:30 You have a regular session on the 1st and the
14:32:34 3rd and CRA.
14:32:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Also, council, you only have one
14:32:37 evening meeting that month for rezonings.
14:32:43 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Moving on to January 2008, you
14:32:47 will have your first session.
14:32:51 We are suggesting it because you don't have a meeting
14:32:55 on the third, we are suggesting that you have a
14:32:59 meeting on the 10th and the 17th, two regular
14:33:03 meetings, because you are going to be out for your
14:33:08 winter vacation.
14:33:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Madam Chairman, we are going to be
14:33:14 out from January -- from December -- the last time we
14:33:18 meet in December is on the --
14:33:22 >>GWEN MILLER: 20th.
14:33:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No.
14:33:24 Yes, 20th.
14:33:25 I mean, school gets back going after New Year's, and
14:33:29 I'm thinking that perhaps we should consider having a
14:33:31 meeting on January 3rd.
14:33:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What do we move what's been
14:33:40 suggested?

14:33:40 The CRA meeting?
14:33:42 Pick it up at the end of the month.
14:33:43 >>GWEN MILLER: We can't pick it up.
14:33:44 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: We are suggesting the CRA be
14:33:49 moved to the 31st --
14:33:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay.
14:33:52 Fine.
14:33:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We just have one workshop scheduled
14:33:57 on that January 24th?
14:34:01 What is that issue?
14:34:06 Must have an issue associated with it.
14:34:08 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: I don't have that one.
14:34:10 We'll look at that.
14:34:13 In February, the month again is normal, your regular
14:34:20 session, on the first and third.
14:34:22 On the second, your CRA.
14:34:24 And a p.m. session.
14:34:25 And on the 4th, a workshop and a p.m. session.
14:34:30 So it starts getting pretty normal for March.
14:34:36 The same, April.
14:34:40 And May.
14:34:44 That's your first free fifth Thursday.

14:34:47 And so I put on there, it's to be determined.
14:34:52 Currently it's open.
14:34:53 And there is no meeting that day.
14:35:02 >> We'll see.
14:35:04 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Next, June again is pretty
14:35:06 normal.
14:35:10 July, the first two weeks you will have your summer
14:35:14 vacation in July.
14:35:19 And your first regular session will be on the 17th
14:35:23 of July.
14:35:24 Along with a p.m. session.
14:35:28 The 24th you will have a workshop and a p.m.
14:35:32 session.
14:35:36 We will have, I'm suggest, a CRA meeting on the
14:35:39 31st.
14:35:41 That you will have everything.
14:35:45 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, may I stop for a minute?
14:35:48 I want to double check the calendar and bring to
14:35:51 council's attention, make sure I have it right.
14:35:53 In your last meeting, regular meeting, June 19th,
14:35:59 your next regular meeting in July is the 17th.
14:36:07 And I'm suggesting that maybe council might want to

14:36:10 consider making the 26th a regular meeting, or
14:36:17 consider doing that rather than have a workshop,
14:36:21 because I'm just concerned that that's a long time for
14:36:24 a city of this size, with the many things the city has
14:36:28 on its plates, for four weeks.
14:36:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's a good idea.
14:36:32 To change the meeting, regular session to June
14:36:37 26th, and have a workshop portion --
14:36:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We weren't talking about swapping,
14:36:43 were we?
14:36:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: No, you are actually adding a third
14:36:47 regular meeting to June so we don't have a four-week
14:36:52 break.
14:36:52 Off three-week break.
14:36:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Linda's idea was interesting, to
14:36:57 swap them.
14:36:58 Then you would have a three-week break between the
14:37:01 5th and the 26th.
14:37:03 And reserving your workshops.
14:37:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It's a great idea if you wish.
14:37:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just swap the 19th and
14:37:14 26th, 26th becomes the regular meeting, the

14:37:17 19th becomes the workshop.
14:37:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's my motion.
14:37:21 >>GWEN MILLER: So you don't have it.
14:37:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We swap them.
14:37:33 Workshop to there, regular to there.
14:37:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY: My question to council, do you want
14:37:37 to keep the evening session still for the 26th?
14:37:41 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
14:37:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
14:37:49 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Moving onto July --
14:37:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I made a motion.
14:37:53 >>CHAIRMAN: Do you want to move the night meeting?
14:37:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No, I don't want to move the night
14:37:58 meeting.
14:38:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: You have to --
14:38:04 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You won't really know the length of
14:38:06 your day meetings ultimately.
14:38:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: But I want the zoning meetings to
14:38:11 be two weeks apart.
14:38:13 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I hear what you say.
14:38:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Is my motion clear?
14:38:21 My motion is that we schedule the regular session in

14:38:23 June for the 26th, and the workshop session for
14:38:27 June 19th.
14:38:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Second.
14:38:29 (Motion carried)
14:38:35 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Moving onto July, as I
14:38:38 mentioned, the first two weeks will be council's
14:38:41 vacation.
14:38:41 You will have a regular session on the 17th of
14:38:45 July, along with the evening session.
14:38:48 On the 24th, you will have a council workshop and
14:38:53 an evening session.
14:38:54 And on the 31st you will have your CRA meeting.
14:39:00 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I should also point out, council, if
14:39:02 you look at the July schedule, in the entire month of
14:39:05 July you only have one regular meeting.
14:39:09 Just to bring that to your attention.
14:39:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Now with the breaks.
14:39:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I don't think you have ever gone an
14:39:18 entire month with only one regular meeting normally,
14:39:21 because you meet on a weekly basis.
14:39:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Take the workshop off the 24th and
14:39:28 have a regular council meeting.

14:39:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Madam Chairman?
14:39:37 Thank you.
14:39:37 If you look at July 31st, we don't have a meeting
14:39:40 that evening.
14:39:46 Why don't we put in a regular session at 9:00 and a
14:39:50 CRA meeting at 1:30?
14:39:52 Because that will keep us from having such a long
14:39:57 daytime meeting if you want to. I think we can kind
14:39:59 of play it by ear.
14:40:00 We are going to have a sense by then how this new
14:40:03 scheduling schedule is working.
14:40:05 I'm not worried about it.
14:40:08 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Council, land development has
14:40:11 requested that the evening session on the 24th be
14:40:15 moved to the 31st.
14:40:22 In July.
14:40:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved to change the second
14:40:26 evening session to July 31st.
14:40:29 >> Second.
14:40:29 (Motion carried)
14:40:33 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Moving onto August, it looks
14:40:35 pretty normal except that you have Florida League of

14:40:41 Cities on the 14th and the conference will be held
14:40:44 here in Tampa.
14:40:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Great.
14:40:47 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Also, council, if you will also
14:40:50 notice in August, there is no CRA meeting presently
14:40:55 scheduled, and you only have one night meeting, just
14:40:57 to bring that to your attention.
14:41:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think we should maybe, since we
14:41:03 don't have a night meeting, we only have one night
14:41:05 meeting, we could have a CRA meeting on the 21st.
14:41:10 I hate to go for -- miss CRA for a whole month.
14:41:14 So my motion would be to reschedule a CRA meeting at
14:41:18 1:30 on the 21st.
14:41:22 >> Second.
14:41:22 (Motion carried).
14:41:23 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Moving onto September, again,
14:41:28 looks pretty normal.
14:41:35 October, there will be no meeting on October 9th
14:41:40 due to the holidays, and we are suggesting that you
14:41:44 move the CRA to the fifth Thursday.
14:41:50 Which is on the 30th.
14:41:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay.

14:41:52 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: November looks pretty normal
14:41:57 again.
14:42:02 And so does December.
14:42:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you so much.
14:42:08 I know this is a lot of work.
14:42:11 Colors really help.
14:42:30 >>SHIRLEY FOXX-KNOWLES: Just a reminder, just to keep
14:42:32 in mind, in September, of course, we have the budget.
14:42:35 So that was not incorporated in here.
14:42:38 And we don't know when those things will be.
14:42:41 But just another consideration.
14:42:43 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Just one more thing to bring to your
14:42:46 attention.
14:42:49 In October, November and December, you presently only
14:42:52 have one evening scheduled, one evening session
14:42:58 scheduled.
14:42:58 Of course your rules give you the opportunity to add
14:43:00 additional meetings as the plan goes on depending on
14:43:03 petitions or whatever land development would think to
14:43:06 be necessary.
14:43:07 Remind you, council, you have amended your rules to
14:43:09 allow 13 petitions total for an evening meeting.

14:43:14 And under your changes to chapter 27, you no longer
14:43:17 will have a section setting both evening meetings for
14:43:21 public hearing, is that right, Ms. Coyle?
14:43:24 So those will automatically be scheduled.
14:43:26 So I suspect if for some reason that land development
14:43:30 needs to go beyond that, they will come to council and
14:43:33 ask council to waive its rules to be able to add that,
14:43:35 with your approval, additional meetings if need be,
14:43:39 and additional petitions, excuse me, if need be.
14:43:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you for the hard work.
14:43:46 >>THE CLERK: Need a motion to approve the council
14:43:51 calendar with the changes.
14:43:53 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
14:43:55 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
14:43:56 (Motion carried)
14:43:57 Information by council members.
14:44:00 Mr. Dingfelder?
14:44:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just two quick items.
14:44:06 Awhile back, in April, I had made a motion but didn't
14:44:10 put a date on it.
14:44:12 The issue about the proliferation of these boxes that
14:44:17 are out on the street.

14:44:18 Traditionally we have had newspaper boxes out on the
14:44:20 street but now we have a proliferation of other boxes,
14:44:24 like little real estate boxes, and I have had some
14:44:27 neighborhoods complain about it.
14:44:29 So we asked legal to look into it but we didn't put a
14:44:33 date on it.
14:44:34 So if I could ask legal to get back with us, I am
14:44:36 going to give them six months so at least we have a
14:44:38 date.
14:44:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
14:44:42 (Motion carried).
14:44:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let us know what if anything we can
14:44:46 do about that.
14:44:46 There's a lot of legal ramifications.
14:44:49 And the second item relates to the peg channels on
14:44:55 Bright House.
14:44:56 What is; public access, educational access and
14:45:00 government access television channels, what, 15, 16,
14:45:05 17, 18 through 22, I guess.
14:45:08 It's my understanding Bright House is planning on
14:45:10 moving those channels way up to the 300 or 600s or
14:45:17 somewhere.

14:45:19 I don't know where I heard it, but I heard it.
14:45:26 And it concerns me.
14:45:28 Well, it concerns me for a couple reasons.
14:45:30 I think many people access their government by
14:45:32 flipping channels when they get to channel 15 and they
14:45:36 watch us for awhile and say, oh, that's what you do,
14:45:38 then they call us up and say I don't like that or I do
14:45:41 like that.
14:45:41 But they watch it.
14:45:42 They get up to 22, watch the county commission, same
14:45:45 type of thing.
14:45:46 I don't know much about it in terms of -- oh, the
14:45:49 other thing is, if you are not a premium subscriber,
14:45:52 you are not going to get any of those channels.
14:45:54 If you're just a basic subscriber you are going to get
14:45:57 cut out of all those channels.
14:45:59 I think that's what was reported in the newspaper.
14:46:01 So with that said, does anybody know the time frame
14:46:04 when they were talking about?
14:46:05 Do you know when they are talking about changing it,
14:46:07 David?
14:46:11 I didn't want the report yet.

14:46:12 >>DAVID SMITH: They haven't given us a precise date,
14:46:15 at least not that I know but there's federal law
14:46:18 implications as well.
14:46:19 It deals with what constitutes the primary tier.
14:46:22 So we are looking into that.
14:46:25 Sal Territo is actually working on it but he's out
14:46:29 today.
14:46:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I wrote down the 27th.
14:46:33 >> We are hearing from the press it's in December.
14:46:41 >> The 27th of September.
14:46:42 Is that all right?
14:46:44 >> Second.
14:46:46 >> Definitely don't want to be moved but I want to
14:46:48 hear from legal what our options are because it's
14:46:51 state law contract, it's federal law, so there's a lot
14:46:53 of that.
14:46:54 And then the other thing I would like to do -- and
14:46:56 David, maybe you can do this for us -- I'd like to
14:47:00 request Bright House to appear before us.
14:47:03 We are in a contract with Bright House.
14:47:05 I think it would be courteous of them to appear before
14:47:07 us and to talk about it with us on the 27th.

14:47:11 Of September.
14:47:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
14:47:15 (Motion carried)
14:47:20 >>MARY MULHERN: This has to do with the city's
14:47:22 contract with them, right?
14:47:26 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
14:47:28 It does.
14:47:28 But what has happened is the state legislature has
14:47:31 passed a state cable franchising statute, which
14:47:35 unfortunately has significant areas where they took
14:47:43 our authority and establishing a national franchise
14:47:47 approach.
14:47:47 So, yes, but, unfortunately, everybody is getting in
14:47:50 the act.
14:47:52 It gets very complicated.
14:47:54 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I talked to Mr. Smith, and Mr.
14:47:58 Smith, the chief of staff, and Ms. Miller in reference
14:48:01 to putting an inspection charge on all subdivisions,
14:48:05 like if there's 100 lots, because right now, we don't
14:48:08 have an inspection charge.
14:48:12 The Hillsborough County commission just recently, I
14:48:15 think yesterday, adopted a $26 charge on each lot that

14:48:19 they inspect.
14:48:20 So I would like the administration to put a plan
14:48:22 together so that we can do that.
14:48:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
14:48:26 (Motion carried)
14:48:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm aware that the federal
14:48:33 government gives disabled veterans a preference in
14:48:36 hiring situations.
14:48:38 And I wondered if we look at MBE and different
14:48:46 incentives to make sure we have level playing fields
14:48:49 and opportunities.
14:48:50 I would like to request that the administration
14:48:52 investigate how we could help disabled veterans.
14:48:56 >> Second.
14:48:56 (Motion carried).
14:48:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Anything else?
14:49:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Anything else, Mr. Scott?
14:49:14 >>THOMAS SCOTT: No.
14:49:15 >>MARY MULHERN: I had a couple things.
14:49:18 (off microphone) I don't know if others have gotten
14:49:24 e-mails about traffic on River Hills Drive.
14:49:26 I actually think this is councilman Caetano's

14:49:31 neighborhood.
14:49:31 I would like to ask for a staff report on that from
14:49:35 traffic.
14:49:35 And as I look at our calendar, it looks like the
14:49:40 fourth of October, there's room for that.
14:49:44 So if someone from traffic could appear.
14:49:48 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
14:49:48 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
14:49:50 (Motion carried).
14:49:51 >>MARY MULHERN: The other thing that I would like to
14:49:55 ask stormwater to come in and talk about -- Linda, you
14:50:00 kind of alluded to this earlier.
14:50:02 I know there was something on their purchasing on the
14:50:05 consent agenda.
14:50:08 But while I was out of town last week I got an e-mail
14:50:12 from friends of the river about the huge fish kill
14:50:15 that happened a week ago Saturday.
14:50:19 All of the fish in the lower Hillsborough River died,
14:50:22 and it was because of stormwater run-off.
14:50:24 Basically the pollution that hit after a big rainstorm
14:50:28 into the river caused that.
14:50:30 So I would like to hear from our stormwater department

14:50:35 what exactly plans they have for better drainage
14:50:40 system, maybe talk a little bit about wetlands, and
14:50:44 wetlands protection, just about the whole issue of
14:50:47 what we are doing to protect us from the stormwater
14:50:52 run-off that's causing pollution.
14:50:54 And the other thing I would like to ask, is there's a
14:50:58 group, I can't remember what their name is, but they
14:51:02 have been promoting these stormwater drains.
14:51:06 >> Clean water action.
14:51:07 >>MARY MULHERN: Maybe they could come and show that as
14:51:10 a public service.
14:51:10 Because I know I mentioned to the our stormwater
14:51:13 department and they weren't really interested.
14:51:15 But I'm interested.
14:51:16 I would like to see that.
14:51:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
14:51:26 >> Do that on the 4th?
14:51:28 October 4th?
14:51:29 >>GWEN MILLER: What time?
14:51:30 >> Morning.
14:51:31 With staff reports.
14:51:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.

14:51:33 (Motion carried)
14:51:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
14:51:36 Also, Catherine Coyle has been looking into kind of --
14:51:42 it's not exactly a zoning overlay but is a way of
14:51:45 looking at fertilizers that are going directly into
14:51:48 the river from people's lawns to keep pesticides, to
14:51:52 keep them from killing fish.
14:51:57 >>MARY MULHERN: We have the canal issue coming up in a
14:51:59 workshop, right?
14:52:02 And then all the sediment, too.
14:52:04 And filtration.
14:52:07 Maybe just to talk about it.
14:52:13 >>GWEN MILLER: Anything else?
14:52:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to receive and file all
14:52:17 documents.
14:52:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
14:52:19 (Motion carried).
14:52:20 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the audience that
14:52:22 would like to speak?
14:52:23 We now go to into CRA.
14:52:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Why don't we take a five-minute break.
14:52:33 >>GWEN MILLER: City Council is adjourned and we go

14:52:35 into CRA.
14:52:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We'll take a five-minute recess so we
14:52:46 can get our quorum back.
14:52:48 Five minutes.
14:52:51 (City Council meeting adjourned)
14:53:08