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Tampa City Council
Thursday, October 4, 2007
9:00 a.m. session

DISCLAIMER:
The following represents an unedited version of
realtime captioning which should neither be relied
upon for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
transcript.
The original of this file was produced in all capital
letters and any variation thereto may be a result of
third party edits and software compatibility issues.
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.

08:37:03 [Sounding gavel]
08:37:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The CRA meeting will get started.
08:37:07 Roll call.
08:37:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
08:37:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here ding Dingfelder here.
08:37:17 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
08:37:19 >> Reverend Scott has called and said he's going to be
08:37:22 a few minutes late so we are going to go ahead and
08:37:24 begin this meeting of the Community Redevelopment
08:37:26 Agency.

08:37:28 The first thing on our agenda is a TIF budget
08:37:32 recommendation on downtown from Mark Huey.
08:37:36 >>MARK HUEY: Good morning.
08:37:37 And thank you again for scheduling this special
08:37:40 meeting that is very important, an approval that you
08:37:46 will be making at council.
08:37:47 This is an important and really a milestone day for
08:37:52 our downtown CRA.
08:37:54 Later in your council agenda, you will be approving
08:37:57 items relating to the new Curtis Hixon park moving
08:38:03 forward.
08:38:03 And with that, the art museum, the children's museum,
08:38:07 and Kiley gardens, all very important to the future of
08:38:11 our downtown, to keeping redevelopment momentum going.
08:38:14 There are things that you all have been working on and
08:38:18 supporting for I don't know how many years in the case
08:38:22 of the art museum in particular.
08:38:24 So it's a good day for our city and for our downtown.
08:38:28 Your purpose today is to -- and again I thank you for
08:38:31 pulling out the downtown CRA budget from the approvals
08:38:35 of all of the another's CRA budgets which you will be
08:38:38 approving next week.

08:38:39 The reason for that, it's because these funds in your
08:38:44 fiscal 2008 budget will be used in support of the
08:38:47 council items before you later this morning.
08:38:51 The budget was provided to you via memo on September
08:38:55 21st.
08:39:00 Dedicating virtually all of our discretionary TIF
08:39:03 revenues to the completion of the park.
08:39:06 So with that, I simply ask for your approval of the
08:39:10 downtown budget.
08:39:14 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Council members, do you have any
08:39:16 questions?
08:39:16 Or should I say, CRA members?
08:39:18 CRA members.
08:39:20 Mr. Dingfelder.
08:39:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mark, in order to do these great
08:39:29 projects that we need to keep moving forward on, we
08:39:32 have to sacrifice some of these other projects that we
08:39:35 were all working hard on, including the two-waying of
08:39:41 the streets, and some of the other items, way finding
08:39:44 signs and that sort of thing.
08:39:46 Has there been discussion about if and when we might
08:39:49 be able to pick up on those other projects?

08:39:53 >>> It's disappointing in light of the strand decision
08:39:56 that we weren't able to move forward on the financing
08:39:58 at this point that would allow us to have leveraged
08:40:02 our TIF resources more so, we could have done more.
08:40:07 You're right, two -- waying of streets, Avenue of the
08:40:12 arts, Boulevard, all of the important improvements we
08:40:15 want to move forward in our downtown.
08:40:17 John, really, absent the improved reading of the
08:40:23 strand decision, and remember the court is going to
08:40:26 rehear that on October 19th.
08:40:29 October 9th, I'm sorry.
08:40:31 And we may get some favorable clarifications which
08:40:33 would give us a basis to move forward on that
08:40:36 commercial paper financing, which would then allow us
08:40:39 to be more in a leveraging mode again and have TIF
08:40:43 resources that would be available to support some of
08:40:45 these other important downtown projects.
08:40:47 Absent that, however, what we'll be doing in the
08:40:49 future, unfortunately, it's focusing our discretionary
08:40:54 TIF for the next couple of years on completing this
08:40:56 very important downtown project at the Curtis Hixon
08:41:02 park completion and all of the related amenities.

08:41:05 And a bad thing, at this point we can't do the others,
08:41:08 but I'm certainly very excited and I know you are to
08:41:12 at least be able to move forward, the signature park
08:41:16 for our downtown.
08:41:17 >> And I see county is here with the partnership.
08:41:23 I guess the partnership has been briefed on this, and
08:41:26 are you all okay with that?
08:41:28 I see some nods.
08:41:30 That's fine.
08:41:40 >>> Carol, downtown partnership we do support the
08:41:44 mayor's decision of the park and look forward to
08:41:47 working with the city to try to find other funds or
08:41:50 pots of revenue, way finding studies and two waying of
08:41:53 streets but we moving forward in as timely manner as
08:42:00 possible.
08:42:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Other questions?
08:42:05 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If it's the appropriate time I move
08:42:06 item number 1.
08:42:07 >> Second.
08:42:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: There's been a motion and second to
08:42:11 move item number 1.
08:42:12 Any discussion?

08:42:13 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to say that I think for
08:42:16 downtown redevelopment this is the best thing we that
08:42:18 we could focus on with our limited funds right now.
08:42:21 We are finally going to get our art museum built.
08:42:24 We are finally going to get a children's museum.
08:42:27 And we are going to have a park that has the potential
08:42:30 to really bring people downtown.
08:42:32 So I think it's a good use of the money.
08:42:35 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
08:42:38 I agree.
08:42:38 Any other discussion?
08:42:39 All those in favor say Aye.
08:42:40 Opposed, Nay.
08:42:41 Passed unanimously.
08:42:42 Thank you.
08:42:43 Is there any other business?
08:42:44 Is there any community input?
08:42:46 Any public input?
08:42:48 This is the time.
08:42:49 If not, we stand adjourned.
08:42:51 Thank you.
08:42:58 (CRA meeting adjourned)

09:03:55


























City Council meeting
Thursday, October 4, 2007
9:00 a.m. session

DISCLAIMER:
The following represents an unedited version of
realtime captioning which should neither be relied
upon for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
transcript.
The original of this file was produced in all capital
letters and any variation thereto may be a result of
third party edits and software compatibility issues.
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.



09:04:48 [Sounding gavel]
09:07:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay, good morning.
09:07:24 We'll start City Council.
09:07:26 This morning we'll start with the invocation.
09:07:29 Ms. Mulhern.
09:07:30 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, chairman.
09:07:32 I would like to welcome reverend Phyllis hunt, the
09:07:37 senior pastor of the metropolitan community church of

09:07:40 Tampa, NCC church in Seminole Heights on Cayuga and
09:07:46 central.
09:07:47 Reverend hunt received her call as pastor to NCC Tampa
09:07:51 in 2003.
09:07:53 She's the senior pastor as well as one of many
09:07:56 ministers in the life of the NCC church working hand in
09:08:00 hand with the congregation to create a nurturing
09:08:03 environment where everyone feels included, valued and
09:08:06 accepted.
09:08:07 I would like to ask everyone to stand for the
09:08:09 invocation and then to the pledge of allegiance.
09:08:12 >>> Today is Holocaust Memorial Day.
09:08:19 So as we go to God in prayer, I invite you to remember
09:08:23 all of those around the globe who have ended their
09:08:29 lives at the hands of someone else.
09:08:34 We thank you for freedom, for this country, for the
09:08:39 opportunity to express ourselves, for the opportunity
09:08:46 to live our life in the fullness of creativity and
09:08:53 contribution.
09:08:55 We ask your blessing on the work that will be done in
09:08:58 this room today.
09:09:00 Give guidance and direction to the decision makers.

09:09:09 May they feel heard.
09:09:10 We thank you, O God, that we have the opportunity to be
09:09:13 peace makers.
09:09:16 Give us your vision.
09:09:18 Give us your courage.
09:09:20 And move through us your grace and your love reminding
09:09:25 us that as we move through the day, we have choices
09:09:32 that can impact the peace we are so hungry for.
09:09:39 So we give you thanks and praise, O God, and we offer
09:09:43 ourselves to be your hands and your heart, to make the
09:09:47 difference and in all that is sacred and holy, we offer
09:09:55 this to you.
09:09:56 Amen.
09:09:57 [ Pledge of Allegiance ]
09:10:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Roll call.
09:10:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
09:10:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:10:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
09:10:20 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
09:10:22 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
09:10:23 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.
09:10:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, madam clerk.

09:10:32 Mr. Scott, we'll start off with presentation and
09:10:35 commendation, fighter of the quarter.
09:10:39 Firefighter of the quarter.
09:10:47 >> Thank you.
09:10:48 It is my pleasure today to be able to present the
09:10:52 fireman of the month.
09:10:53 And so we ask, I guess, the fire chief to come forward
09:10:58 at this point to introduce -- the fireman of the month
09:11:04 and then we'll make all the preliminaries and then I'll
09:11:07 come back with the presentation.
09:11:09 Chief.
09:11:14 >>> Good morning members of the council.
09:11:16 It really is an honor to come before you and present to
09:11:19 you this quarter's selection as firefighter of the
09:11:24 quarter, Rick Acosta and joined by his wife.
09:11:29 Rick is a driver at station 3 in Hyde Park.
09:11:34 Known by someone who is always willing to lend a
09:11:36 helping hand, and whether that be for co-workers or
09:11:40 friends or really anyone.
09:11:42 Several years ago a firefighter and good friend of ours
09:11:46 was stricken with a very serious illness, and driver
09:11:50 Acosta was looking for a way to help his friend out and

09:11:53 agreed to take care of his lawn, cutting his yard for
09:11:57 him, so that his family could look at medical issues
09:12:00 and other more important things.
09:12:02 And while the illness lasted much longer than any of us
09:12:06 expected and ultimately took the man's life, through
09:12:08 that entire time, many years, driver Rick Acosta
09:12:13 continually provided to tap care of the task, cut the
09:12:17 yard and provided great comfort to the family.
09:12:20 One recent summer day while off duty driver engineer
09:12:24 Acosta came upon a very serious auto accident, and of
09:12:26 course first he called 911 and let them know it was a
09:12:31 serious accident, then he saw a woman slumped over the
09:12:34 wheel, the steering wheel, unconscious, apparently not
09:12:37 breathing.
09:12:38 He climbed into the twisted metal wreckage of the
09:12:40 vehicle, was able to position her in such a way that
09:12:44 her airway was now open and she was able to breathe
09:12:48 again.
09:12:48 He stayed with her until paramedics arrived and
09:12:50 ultimately transported her to the hospital.
09:12:54 When the woman's husband arrived at the scene it was
09:12:56 only then that driver engineer Acosta realized that he

09:12:59 was friends with both the woman and her husband.
09:13:02 They were old family friends.
09:13:04 And while the woman stayed in a coma for nearly three
09:13:07 weeks, she suffered injuries that probably should have
09:13:11 taken her life.
09:13:12 She is now slowly recovering, and the fact that she is
09:13:16 alive today is directly attributed to driver engineer
09:13:19 Acosta's quick response and life saving medical care.
09:13:23 During his 21 years with Tampa Fire Rescue, driver
09:13:26 engineer Acosta has always been willing to go above and
09:13:30 beyond the call of duty.
09:13:31 For these reasons and many more, we are honored to
09:13:33 present driver engineer Rick Acosta firefighter of the
09:13:37 quarter.
09:13:38 [ Applause ]
09:13:52 >> At this time I want to present Rick Acosta this
09:13:55 commendation on behalf of Tampa City Council.
09:13:57 Again, this shows how important our police and our fire
09:14:03 departments are those who put their lives on the line
09:14:11 every day out there saving lives.
09:14:15 I want you to know how valuable that is to this
09:14:18 community and because of that this council set aside to

09:14:21 recognize you in your efforts in serving and saving
09:14:24 lives.
09:14:24 So behalf of City Council it is my honor and pleasure
09:14:29 to present to you this commendation on behalf of City
09:14:31 Council.
09:14:45 >> Danny Lewis from Bill Currie Ford to offer you a
09:14:49 small token of appreciation from Bill Currie Ford.
09:14:53 What makes this unique is it's a very unique group of
09:14:58 men and women.
09:15:02 From Bill Currie Ford a small token of appreciation, a
09:15:05 watch.
09:15:05 Thank you for keeping our community safe.
09:15:14 >>> Steve Stickley representing Stepps towing service.
09:15:20 Driver engineer, on behalf of Jim and Judy Stepp and
09:15:25 Stepps towing service we appreciate the things you do
09:15:28 out there for us to keep everybody safe, savoring lives
09:15:31 and doing what you do.
09:15:33 We present this statue to you and also a gift
09:15:35 certificate.
09:15:38 [ Applause ]
09:15:48 >>> I just want to thank everybody.
09:15:50 First I want to thank God for putting me in this

09:15:53 position to be able to help people.
09:15:55 That's what I like to do, and thank my wife and the
09:15:58 City of Tampa for giving me a chance to do what I like
09:16:01 to do.
09:16:01 Thank you very much.
09:16:03 [ Applause ]
09:16:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Scott.
09:16:13 Thank you, chief.
09:16:14 Congratulations.
09:16:15 All right.
09:16:20 Council, today, as you may recall, is our first meeting
09:16:24 in October.
09:16:24 As you may remember, we adopted some new rules and
09:16:28 procedures this summer, pursuant to our strategic
09:16:32 planning session.
09:16:34 We hope to have some more efficient meetings, and we'll
09:16:39 see how these changes go.
09:16:42 Some of the changes, I just wanted to run through,
09:16:45 remind you as well as the public, that we will be
09:16:48 meeting -- continue to meet virtually every Thursday,
09:16:53 but our meeting schedule will change.
09:16:56 On the first and third Thursdays of every month, we

09:16:59 will have our regular morning meetings like we have
09:17:03 always had.
09:17:04 On the second Thursday, we will sit as the CRA and have
09:17:10 more in-depth CRA meetings, for a longer period ever
09:17:14 time and get into longer discussions.
09:17:16 As you know, we have, what is it, nine or so CRAs
09:17:20 around the community, and we all thought they deserve
09:17:23 more time.
09:17:24 And then on the fourth Thursday of the month will be
09:17:28 used as a day to hold workshops to discuss ordinances
09:17:32 and major issues of public policy.
09:17:34 And I think we all agree that's extremely important
09:17:36 because previously when we had workshops, you know,
09:17:40 they kind of got rushed and pushed into the afternoon
09:17:42 and that sort of thing, and everybody is kind of
09:17:46 exhausted.
09:17:46 So this way we'll focus on the workshop issues at nine
09:17:50 in the morning on the fourth Thursday.
09:17:52 As usual, we'll continue to have our night land use and
09:17:56 zoning meetings.
09:17:57 On the second and fourth Thursdays of the month.
09:18:03 To the public we ask for your indulgence and

09:18:06 cooperation as we work through this process.
09:18:08 Another process that we have started is a sign-in sheet
09:18:12 for public comment.
09:18:15 And we are moving public comment up to the beginning of
09:18:17 the meeting.
09:18:18 We are about to have it in a minute or two.
09:18:20 But if you want to speak on any issue other than a
09:18:23 public hearing, we have a sign-in sheet right outside
09:18:29 the door, and you will still be allowed three minutes.
09:18:33 We are kind of mimicking the county commission.
09:18:37 Councilman Scott brought over these ideas, so we'll
09:18:42 commend him or blame him depending on how it goes.
09:18:45 Anyway, we are going to have 30 minutes allotted total
09:18:50 for public comment, three minutes per speaker, and
09:19:01 before we do that, I'm sorry, we are going to go ahead
09:19:04 and have the approval of the agenda.
09:19:06 So if there's any item that any council person would
09:19:09 like to pull or discuss over and above the items that
09:19:12 have been listed on the addendum -- and I am going to
09:19:15 go through the addendum in a minute.
09:19:20 On the addendum -- and this comes from various
09:19:23 directions -- city attorney David Smith is here and is

09:19:29 requesting a closed session.
09:19:30 David?
09:19:30 >>DAVID SMITH: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, and the
09:19:33 council members.
09:19:35 David Smith, city attorney.
09:19:37 What I'm here for today is to ask you to add two things
09:19:41 to your agenda.
09:19:42 On October 18th, the first is a closed session
09:19:46 meeting for City of Tampa, V city national bank of
09:19:52 Florida and Citivest construction corporation, case
09:19:54 2-D-06-1383, a second district court of appeal case, to
09:20:01 discuss settlement proposal that we now have received
09:20:05 from the applicant.
09:20:07 And as you know, according to the statute, the closed
09:20:09 sessions can be for purposes of settlement
09:20:11 negotiations, or strategy sessions related to
09:20:14 litigation.
09:20:15 So I want to run through the proposal so you have it,
09:20:19 get your direction.
09:20:20 In addition, I would like to you set a second item for
09:20:23 that agenda, file E-2004-8 chapter 27, which is an
09:20:29 appeal filed by DeSoto ventures Citivest construction

09:20:33 corporation and city national for the trustee on a
09:20:36 decision of the architectural review commission
09:20:38 regarding a certificate of appropriateness at 2101
09:20:42 Bayshore Boulevard.
09:20:43 We need that to follow the discussion on the
09:20:45 settlement, the closed session, excuse me, and that
09:20:49 will be on the agenda, and for action depending upon
09:20:53 what comes out of the closed session.
09:20:55 So we would like --
09:20:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do you need separate motions?
09:20:59 >>> I don't think we need two separate motions.
09:21:01 We set them both on the agenda.
09:21:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We have a motion and second to go on
09:21:08 Mr. Smith's recommendation.
09:21:09 All in favor?
09:21:10 Opposed?
09:21:11 Motion passes.
09:21:13 >>DAVID SMITH: Thank you very much.
09:21:16 >> Going through the addendum which I believe council
09:21:20 has been provided with, Rebecca Kert has a substitute
09:21:23 ordinance for item 49.
09:21:25 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.

09:21:26 This is a wet zoning in Channelside, and the staff
09:21:29 report as well as the application had the correct
09:21:33 information but it wasn't translated in the ordinance
09:21:35 when you did the change.
09:21:36 Petitioner, we needed to change, east Cumberland
09:21:38 street, Avenue, the reason for this rather than the
09:21:44 Channel District.
09:21:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We'll get to that when we get to it.
09:21:51 Item 25.
09:21:52 Sal Territo asked that we remove that from the agenda.
09:21:56 >>SAL TERRITO: Legal department.
09:21:58 Item 25 was dealing with a name change, the old Tampa
09:22:00 Police Department site.
09:22:01 Planning Commission hasn't finished their review so we
09:22:03 are not ready to bring it back before you.
09:22:05 When they do we'll bring it back.
09:22:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll entertain a motion on 25.
09:22:10 >> So moved to remove.
09:22:12 >> Second.
09:22:13 (Motion carried)
09:22:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Strike that from the agenda.
09:22:16 Item 39, a request from Steve Daignault to continue

09:22:21 that till October 18th.
09:22:23 >> So moved.
09:22:24 >> Second.
09:22:24 (Motion carried)
09:22:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Items 41 through 43.
09:22:34 Shirley, do you want to speak to that or do you want
09:22:36 me to just deal with it?
09:22:38 Shirley has indicated this is advertising for the ARC,
09:22:43 HPC and VRB.
09:22:45 We have some vacancies.
09:22:46 Anybody out thereof who wants to apply should inquire
09:22:48 with the clerk's office, asking that we continue this
09:22:53 to November 1st so she can readvertise to the
09:22:57 architectural review, his pork, and variance review
09:23:00 board.
09:23:01 So anybody in the community that's interested in
09:23:03 serving on any of those three boards contact the
09:23:05 clerk's office or any of us for more information.
09:23:08 So we will continue items 41 through 43.
09:23:12 >> So moved.
09:23:13 >> Second.
09:23:13 (Motion carried)

09:23:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Finally on the bottom of the
09:23:20 addendum, chief of staff Darrell Smith has requested
09:23:25 that we pull items 5, 6 and 7 from the committee
09:23:30 reports and discuss those during the staff reports
09:23:35 section.
09:23:36 >> So moved.
09:23:42 >> Second.
09:23:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Any items we need to pull, why don't
09:23:47 we pull them all at one point?
09:23:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Good point, good point.
09:23:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item 19 and 37.
09:24:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 19 and 37.
09:24:09 Would you like staff to be here for any of those?
09:24:11 >>> Not necessarily.
09:24:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It's up to you.
09:24:14 Just pull them as a separate vote?
09:24:18 >>> I want to talk about them.
09:24:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Number 37 is set for a staff report.
09:24:24 So you don't have to pull it.
09:24:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Any other items from council?
09:24:29 Okay.
09:24:29 So we have 5, 6 and 7 from Darrell Smith, as well as

09:24:36 11 and 19 from Mr. Scott.
09:24:44 And staff appear for 11, please.
09:24:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move the agenda with those pulled.
09:24:53 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor?
09:24:59 Any opposed?
09:25:00 (Motion carried)
09:25:01 With that, I have three names who signed in so far,
09:25:04 and I want to just read them real quick.
09:25:07 If you haven't signed in and you want to speak during
09:25:09 public comment session now, please go ahead and sign
09:25:13 in and we'll get your name to me.
09:25:16 We'll start with Margaret Vizzi, rich brown, and
09:25:19 Jeff -- and I'm sorry I can't read the last name,
09:25:22 lives on Cleveland street.
09:25:23 So three minutes each.
09:25:26 >>MARGARET VIZZI: Margaret Vizzi, 213 south Sherill.
09:25:31 I don't know what the comments by staff will be on
09:25:33 item number 36 regards the time frame on the Westshore
09:25:38 DRI, and as chair of the neighborhood committee of the
09:25:42 Westshore DRI, the funds that go into that special
09:25:48 fund for improvement, I just had an interest, but I
09:25:50 don't know exactly what the staff report would be.

09:25:54 So that's why I can't give you any of my comments.
09:25:57 So I don't know how that will work.
09:26:02 If I have to stay after.
09:26:05 Will you take action at that time?
09:26:06 Or is that just a report that you would not act on?
09:26:09 I don't know.
09:26:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I haven't heard about any
09:26:12 particular action that's being requested from council.
09:26:15 Hopefully, we'll defer any action.
09:26:19 Ms. Kert?
09:26:21 >>REBECCA KERT: Legal department.
09:26:23 We are actually just providing a staff report about
09:26:26 whether or not we have received any information from
09:26:27 them, and we haven't yet, and I can give you more
09:26:30 information at that time.
09:26:33 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Brown.
09:26:40 >>> Dr. Rich brown, friends of the river, speaking on
09:26:43 item 11, which is an agreement that restores a
09:26:48 reasonable function of clean water below the park dam,
09:26:56 only noticed the minimal flow.
09:26:59 It's about seven years in the making, seven long,
09:27:01 difficult years we presented here, numerous times.

09:27:05 A lot of tough work by city staff, by some of you and
09:27:10 your predecessors, SWFWMD, Tampa Bay water, DPC, a lot
09:27:16 of neighborhood groups.
09:27:18 We recommend you approve this acceptable compromise.
09:27:22 It's no more than that, but an acceptable compromise
09:27:25 is fine for right now.
09:27:26 There's a lot of science involved in monitoring the
09:27:29 effects ever this over the next five years, and we'll
09:27:32 be able to be back here in five years saying whether
09:27:35 we achieved our goals.
09:27:37 If anybody that's a party to this does not comply,
09:27:41 believe me, we will be right back here letting you
09:27:43 know and asking for your help.
09:27:44 But at this point, it's a delightful morning to be
09:27:47 able to smile and hold hands and ask you to approve
09:27:50 this acceptable compromise.
09:27:52 Thank you very much.
09:27:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Dr. Brown.
09:27:57 Appreciate your efforts on behalf of the river.
09:28:01 Jeff from Cleveland street.
09:28:03 Jeff?
09:28:15 >>> Jeff Shalino, west Cleveland street.

09:28:20 Just for the record, I didn't know whether we could
09:28:23 speak or not this morning.
09:28:24 This is on the petition to close ward street.
09:28:28 >>MARTIN SHELBY: No, not at this time.
09:28:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That will be a public hearing.
09:28:33 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It will come back for second reading
09:28:35 and adoption of public hearing assuming it moves
09:28:37 forward.
09:28:39 Unless the City Council moves to reopen the hearing,
09:28:42 you will not have an opportunity to speak today.
09:28:43 But it will come back.
09:28:44 What is the date, madam clerk, for the second reading,
09:28:47 public hearing?
09:28:49 It would come back, assuming it moves forward, you
09:28:52 would have the opportunity to speak October 18.
09:28:55 >>> At 9:30.
09:28:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Assuming it moves forward.
09:28:59 >>> It was a little confusing signing in so in an
09:29:02 abundance of caution I signed in.
09:29:04 >> Thank you.
09:29:09 Peggy Kerwin.
09:29:11 Then Joe Robinson.

09:29:13 Peggy, you too wanted to speak on the -- we'll get to
09:29:20 item 35 in a little while.
09:29:24 Like our attorney said, not positive there's going to
09:29:27 be an opportunity today to speak on that.
09:29:29 And Mr. Robinson?
09:29:30 >>> Joe Robinson, 2330 Belmont street, West Tampa, and
09:29:38 president of construction engineers, a licensed
09:29:44 professional engineer to speak on item 11, SWFWMD.
09:29:49 As the vice chair of the Hillsborough basin board I'm
09:29:52 glad to say we got this, you know how they said we are
09:29:58 going to get the money but haven't rattled our cages
09:30:01 and our basin board is a set -- aside amount,
09:30:06 stormwater, but your staff will get to that level
09:30:09 while I'm still over there before I leave in 2009.
09:30:12 But I'm here on item number 45.
09:30:18 Pipeline coming to Tampa.
09:30:20 Nobody in West Tampa knows about it.
09:30:22 It's not a right to have a jet fuel pipeline.
09:30:25 I sent everybody e-mails.
09:30:27 Did you get it?
09:30:28 Let's talk about it.
09:30:29 There are issues we run this pipeline through old

09:30:35 Tampa.
09:30:35 I will be contacting my representative in the federal
09:30:37 government, the United States Department of
09:30:38 Transportation what is the direct benefit of this
09:30:43 project along the West Tampa neighborhood that takes
09:30:46 it across the river?
09:30:47 Why not go down Columbus drive?
09:30:50 Where is the minority business participation?
09:30:53 Will property owners along the way be safe from
09:30:57 explosion or spill?
09:30:59 Will the fee collected by the city be redistributed by
09:31:03 proportion in the neighborhood?
09:31:04 Property owners are responsible for the right-of-way,
09:31:06 not the city.
09:31:09 There is problems with this.
09:31:15 Do you see that?
09:31:17 This is a pipeline that ruptured in Virginia and
09:31:19 represents a spilled so many gallons and they had to
09:31:25 pay damages.
09:31:29 Here's a recent one, where they had to pay 15 million.
09:31:42 Here's another one where they have an 8-inch liquid
09:31:48 pipeline from the U.S. D.O.T.

09:31:53 Here's another one where they had to pay 90 million
09:32:00 for safety improvements.
09:32:04 Here's another one.
09:32:05 The U.S. Department of Transportation.
09:32:07 2004.
09:32:12 These people have paper lines that have stress
09:32:15 corrosion cracking and I'm an engineer.
09:32:18 You put a pipeline in today, but it starts to run high
09:32:22 pressure, stresses, and the pipe ruptures.
09:32:25 This is to run in a historic district.
09:32:34 Run it down Columbus.
09:32:36 They don't have a right to that.
09:32:38 If they are going to come in here, these people are
09:32:43 billionaires.
09:32:45 Let's get that building done.
09:32:47 If they really want that in West Tampa put up $6
09:32:49 million and I'll go home and sleep at nature.
09:32:54 Other than that, this thing is going to a lawsuit.
09:32:58 People don't know what's going on.
09:32:59 They got private companies trying to get people to
09:33:02 sign up and they never contacted this community
09:33:04 leader.

09:33:05 And I'm the engineer in the group.
09:33:09 >> thank you, Mr. Robinson.
09:33:14 >> Lawsuit.
09:33:16 And I'm going to retire.
09:33:17 >> I forgot with my hat object on I forgot the item I
09:33:22 wanted to pull.
09:33:23 I did want to have staff here to discuss item 45 which
09:33:25 is the pipeline that Mr. Robinson was just speaking
09:33:28 to.
09:33:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That's under staff report.
09:33:34 >> But it said they provide a written report so I want
09:33:36 to make sure somebody appears from staff and from
09:33:39 legal to be here at that time.
09:33:43 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe Mr. Smith would like to ask
09:33:45 council to amend its motion somewhat.
09:33:47 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney again.
09:33:49 What I would like to do is set a time certain for the
09:33:53 event I asked you to set on the 18th.
09:33:55 Way propose we do is we set a time certain at 11:30 on
09:33:59 the closed session and 11:55 on the second item.
09:34:08 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move to rescind the prior motion.
09:34:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Motion and second.

09:34:14 (Motion carried).
09:34:17 >> Move to adopt the time ruling same date for October
09:34:20 18th, one at 11:30, one at 11:55.
09:34:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: There's a motion and second to
09:34:30 clarify on the time.
09:34:31 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
09:34:33 Any opposed?
09:34:33 Motion passes.
09:34:37 Okay.
09:34:38 Anybody else from the public who would want to speak
09:34:40 on items not set for public hearing?
09:34:42 All right.
09:34:43 Not seeing anyone we'll move forward.
09:34:46 Any requests by the public for reconsideration of
09:34:48 legislative matters that we have already passed?
09:34:51 All right.
09:34:52 Seeing none we'll move forward to committee reports
09:34:55 and the consent agenda.
09:35:00 Actually if we have an ordinance, item 2, ordinance
09:35:03 for first reading for a minor encroachment, central
09:35:10 and Kennedy.
09:35:14 >>> Needs to be read, the ordinance to be read.

09:35:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just on the agenda?
09:35:21 Ms. Mulhern?
09:35:24 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance.
09:35:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
09:35:28 >>MARY MULHERN: Authorizing an encroachment a portion
09:35:30 of an existing building by Grand Central at Kennedy
09:35:33 LLC over a portion of the public right-of-way known as
09:35:36 Madison street as more particularly described herein
09:35:38 subject to certain terms, covenants, conditions and
09:35:40 agreements as more particularly described here,
09:35:43 providing an effective date.
09:35:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Motion and second.
09:35:46 Any discussion on the motion?
09:35:47 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
09:35:49 Any opposed?
09:35:50 Motion passed unanimously.
09:35:52 All right.
09:35:52 We'll move to our committee reports.
09:35:56 Reverend Scott, chair of Public Safety Committee.
09:35:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I would like to move items 3 and 4,
09:36:02 please.
09:36:02 >> Second.

09:36:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Discussion on the motion?
09:36:06 All in favor say Aye.
09:36:08 Opposed?
09:36:08 Nogs motion passes.
09:36:10 Linda Saul-Sena, parks and rec.
09:36:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move resolutions 8 and 9.
09:36:17 >> Second.
09:36:18 (Motion carried).
09:36:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Items 5, 6 and 7 we'll be doing
09:36:23 later on.
09:36:25 Public Works Committee, Mr. Miranda.
09:36:28 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'll move 10, 12 and 13 and we'll
09:36:32 discuss 11 at this time.
09:36:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:36:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move 10, 12 and 13.
09:36:40 >> Motion and second.
09:36:41 Any discussion?
09:36:42 (Motion carried)
09:36:44 Item 11, Mr. Miranda.
09:36:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: May I discuss this for the council?
09:36:48 Mr. Mr. Chairman, this is an agreement that like Dr.
09:36:51 Brown said has been in the mill and in the hopper are

09:36:55 for over seven years.
09:36:56 It's something that's very much needed to make the
09:37:01 first step if we are really going to help the lower
09:37:06 part of the river.
09:37:07 It's something regarding minimum flows and levels.
09:37:11 This agreement consists of 22,225,000 from SWFWMD and
09:37:17 equal amount from the City of Tampa, the agreement
09:37:19 further states that in these findings of fact still
09:37:25 out to work in other areas, it needed to make the
09:37:28 contact with SWFWMD, they have always been very
09:37:31 cooperative with the city.
09:37:32 Mr. Moore, the director, has always had a hand out to
09:37:36 help the City of Tampa through lean times and when
09:37:38 there was no water in 2001 to help us facilitate the
09:37:42 need we have to all our customers.
09:37:44 This agreement is a good agreement.
09:37:46 Nothing is perfect.
09:37:48 But this agreement states, this is a first step.
09:37:52 There will be six or seven other agreements that go
09:37:55 specifically to the details of getting this job
09:37:57 accomplished.
09:37:58 It will then be negotiated, each one of those

09:38:03 agreements as to how much is spent.
09:38:06 Like anything else I want to compliment southwest
09:38:09 water management for saying, listen, we are going to
09:38:11 come up with that amount of money to meet you halfway,
09:38:14 but make sure that it's done within the realm of the
09:38:18 moneys that we put forward.
09:38:20 They are going to offer 50%.
09:38:21 We are doing 50%.
09:38:22 And that means that we will be controlled, the
09:38:28 operation and the construction, for the citizens that
09:38:31 we serve, which is over 600,000, in the water
09:38:33 business.
09:38:35 I think it's a first step to getting this thing done
09:38:38 and getting it done right, and after discussion by
09:38:42 this council, I'll be privileged to move this because
09:38:45 this is something that we have all been looking for.
09:38:47 I know that certain council members like Mrs.
09:38:50 Saul-Sena, Mr. Dingfelder, Mr -- what's your name? --
09:38:58 Caetano, Ms. Mulhern and Mr. Scott -- that was a joke,
09:39:02 Joseph -- and all of us worked, when we were
09:39:04 campaigning, to get this done.
09:39:06 I remember that various times.

09:39:07 So this is the truth in voting, I would say, where we
09:39:12 come forward, and what we spoke about during the
09:39:14 campaign is finally going to be a realization.
09:39:19 I'll be honored to move this after the council
09:39:22 finishes.
09:39:22 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Mr. Chairman, I support it.
09:39:27 Just reading the backup it's not clear, when you look
09:39:29 at item 11 on the agenda item and you raise a question
09:39:33 where it says financial impact statement, it says
09:39:35 water ponds.
09:39:36 And I'm trying to figure out what that means.
09:39:38 And I think it's very important when we deal with
09:39:42 information that we be a little more specific, and
09:39:47 particularly when we talk about what it's going to
09:39:49 cost customers, rate payers.
09:39:52 That has not been discussed.
09:39:53 So that is more my question, what is it going to cost
09:39:59 the rate payers?
09:40:00 And when we talk about financial impact, get a little
09:40:04 more information.
09:40:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We have our attorney here.
09:40:09 And the question from Mr. Scott, Bonnie or Jan, what

09:40:16 will be the SWFWMD agreement cost our rate payers as
09:40:19 we go over the years?
09:40:20 The city has an obligation, I think, of $22 million or
09:40:24 half of the total 44 million that's going to be paid,
09:40:28 and obviously has to come from somewhere.
09:40:31 >> Good morning, Jan McLean, legal department.
09:40:34 To answer your question, yes, the city is responsible
09:40:37 for half of the estimated cost, and the eligible cost
09:40:40 of these projects.
09:40:43 The water department has already done their estimation
09:40:47 and feels comfortable that the funds will be available
09:40:50 as we bring each project forward to you.
09:40:53 As Mr. Miranda indicated, each project will be
09:40:56 negotiated in a separate project agreement, more
09:41:00 specifically identifying what the costs will be for
09:41:03 that project, and any additional terms and conditions
09:41:08 set forth there understood.
09:41:09 So you will be able to look at the projects and their
09:41:12 costs as they come forward.
09:41:13 >> So we really don't know.
09:41:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Bonnie, you could help us on this,
09:41:18 I think also.

09:41:20 A couple of months ago we had a rate adjustment on the
09:41:23 water -- on everybody's water bill.
09:41:26 And part of that included a pass-through.
09:41:29 And I think the pass-through was related to this.
09:41:32 So is that all our rate payers are going to see, or
09:41:36 will they see more pass throughs over the years?
09:41:38 >>> No, the pass through was for the purchase of Tampa
09:41:41 Bay water and Jan was telling me already built into
09:41:44 the number.
09:41:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So as this funding comes along,
09:41:51 that will be reflect on the bills and --
09:41:57 >>> Jan: It's my understanding in the rate increases
09:42:00 these costs were already taken into consideration.
09:42:03 These projects were built in.
09:42:04 They were identified and there was a large list, of
09:42:07 large projects, so those were taken into
09:42:09 consideration, and we proposed rate increases.
09:42:12 And the pass-through is only for when we purchase
09:42:14 water from Tampa Bay water.
09:42:16 We indicate that specifically on the bill so that they
09:42:19 will see what we are purchasing from Tampa Bay water.
09:42:22 So these projects are already built in your budget.

09:42:25 But will be able to see the individual project costs
09:42:30 as they come forward.
09:42:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just wanted to say that I'm very
09:42:36 pleased that the administration has followed the
09:42:39 leadership demonstrated by friends of the river, clean
09:42:43 water action, and the other advocacy groups for the
09:42:46 Hillsborough River in coming to agreement, supporting
09:42:49 the minimum flows.
09:42:51 It really speaks to the tenacity and vision of these
09:42:55 concerned citizens who spent seven years working to
09:42:58 get this city and everyone to cooperate to come up
09:43:01 with the funding so that you will have a healthy
09:43:03 river.
09:43:03 And I look forward to the water department and the
09:43:05 legal department, thinking broadly and emphatically
09:43:10 about the Hillsborough River being our
09:43:13 responsibilities under our stewardship, and seeing all
09:43:15 the things we can do to protect the purity of the
09:43:18 water for the future, because as they say, we are all
09:43:21 downstream.
09:43:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Ms. Saul-Sena.
09:43:25 Any other discussion on that item?

09:43:29 Mr. Miranda?
09:43:31 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'll move item 11, and again those
09:43:35 thanking those who did due diligence for no pay.
09:43:39 They did it because of the need and benefit to all of
09:43:41 us.
09:43:41 We got paid.
09:43:42 They did it because it was the best thing to do, and
09:43:46 they worked very diligent, for over seven years.
09:43:49 Again I want to thank southwest water management,
09:43:52 their staff, their directors and their leaders for
09:43:55 working with the city to accomplish this contribute
09:43:59 contract with the City of Tampa.
09:44:02 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
09:44:03 We have a motion and second.
09:44:04 Any other discussion?
09:44:05 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
09:44:06 Any opposed?
09:44:07 Motion passes unanimously.
09:44:11 Finance Committee, Joseph Caetano, vice chair.
09:44:14 Ms. Saul-Sena, did you have a question?
09:44:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes, Mr. Chairman.
09:44:17 I would just like to pass out invitations for all the

09:44:20 council members.
09:44:21 First item is about the sister city trip to Ashdod,
09:44:24 Israel.
09:44:25 This is an invitation.
09:44:26 Please spread the word.
09:44:27 The city won't pay for it.
09:44:29 You have to pay for it privately but it's going to be,
09:44:31 I think, a very wonderful trip and we are encouraging
09:44:34 citizens in the community to participate in this
09:44:35 sister city trip.
09:44:36 I believe that Chairman Miller and former council
09:44:41 member Mary Alvarez went to Spain a couple times and
09:44:44 this is our first sister city trip to Israel.
09:44:48 >>> This is January 15th, 2008, this coming
09:44:51 January.
09:44:51 I think it's very exciting as well.
09:44:53 That's item 14 for anybody who wants more information,
09:44:57 or they can probably contact Ms. Saul-Sena's office
09:44:59 for more information.
09:45:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
09:45:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Caetano, there's a pull on item
09:45:06 number 19.

09:45:07 So if you want to move everything else.
09:45:10 >> Are we going to move your items, Mr. Chairman, as
09:45:13 Finance Committee?
09:45:16 Items 14 through 17.
09:45:19 Move we move those items.
09:45:20 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:45:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Motion and second.
09:45:24 (Motion carried).
09:45:25 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: As building and zoning chairman I
09:45:29 would like to move 18 to 24.
09:45:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:45:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think there's a pull on 19.
09:45:37 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Pulling 19, right.
09:45:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We have a motion and second items
09:45:42 18 through 24 excluding 19.
09:45:45 Any discussion on that motion?
09:45:47 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
09:45:49 All right.
09:45:50 Item 19, who pulled that, Mr. Scott?
09:45:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I guess the observation on this item,
09:45:57 if you look at the resolution ordinance titled and you
09:46:00 go down to the background, the question I have is,

09:46:05 what does the background mean?
09:46:09 You are not giving me any information.
09:46:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: All righty.
09:46:14 We can defer that for a little bit and let staff --
09:46:18 >>THOMAS SCOTT: We don't have to do that, but I think
09:46:22 it's important that -- I'm assuming that we all read
09:46:25 this.
09:46:26 So like the first one, what is the physical impact?
09:46:33 Here, when you said background, you have the
09:46:35 ordinance, the background, but it's the same thing so
09:46:37 it's not clear.
09:46:40 There's in a information in other words.
09:46:42 If you go back and you read in the back here, I guess
09:46:45 the agreement, you know.
09:46:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I had the opportunity, I was
09:46:52 speaking with our attorney, Mr. Shelby, and he was
09:46:55 showing me an example of what some other communities
09:46:58 produce as far as backup material for items on the
09:47:01 agenda.
09:47:02 And it's remarkably authorize O.and I don't want to
09:47:05 create more work for the administration, but I have to
09:47:08 say, it's wonderful to have a clear explanation, that

09:47:15 perhaps this is an example, at the very least the
09:47:18 staff could attempt to use other words to describe
09:47:20 what is before us today, because Reverend Scott, I
09:47:23 think your point is well taken.
09:47:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And I'll sort of chime in.
09:47:28 It is sort of legalese, authorizing a subordination
09:47:31 agreement of utility interests.
09:47:33 And if you are not into that world of real estate like
09:47:36 David Smith and those folks even I don't know and I'm
09:47:46 an attorney.
09:47:47 >> You are duplicating.
09:47:51 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't know if that is a motion but I
09:47:54 would like to second that we hear from staff an
09:47:56 explanation of this.
09:47:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We'll carry it over to staff
09:48:00 reports toward the end.
09:48:04 Let's see, Mr. Caetano, you did all of your items.
09:48:09 We move on to items being set for public hearing by
09:48:11 council consent.
09:48:13 We have already pulled them, struck 25.
09:48:16 Ms. Saul-Sena, the rest?
09:48:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move we set the

09:48:20 following for public hearing, number 26 through 33.
09:48:23 >> There's a motion and second.
09:48:25 Any discussion on the motion?
09:48:26 All in favor say Aye.
09:48:27 Opposed?
09:48:28 Motion passes.
09:48:30 All right.
09:48:30 Staff reports, Mrs.Wise, I S saw you and your team
09:48:35 came in probably to discuss items 5 through 7.
09:48:45 Santiago Corrada, neighborhood services administrator.
09:48:48 Before you, you have item number 5, which is a new
09:48:51 land lease agreement with the children's museum.
09:49:00 I would like to thank Donna Wysong and the leadership
09:49:03 at the museum.
09:49:05 Their president Al Najjar is here for all of the work
09:49:10 that is done behind the scenes.
09:49:10 It is more focused on specific details, since we know
09:49:13 more details about the redevelopment of the park.
09:49:17 Today is an extremely exciting day for us, as items 5,
09:49:20 6 and 7, hopefully move forward, and we redevelop that
09:49:25 Curtis Hixon park area.
09:49:26 It is the first physical movement for children's

09:49:31 museum, the Museum of Art, the park and Kiley Gardens
09:49:34 so we are extremely excited to bring those items
09:49:36 before you today.
09:49:41 We ask for your support.
09:49:42 If you have any questions I would be more than happy
09:49:43 to answer them related to item 5 at this time.
09:49:45 Mr. Daignault will speak to items 6 and 7.
09:49:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mrs. Saul-Sena, anything on item 5?
09:49:55 And would you come forward, also?
09:49:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm very excited to be looking at
09:50:01 this.
09:50:01 We are thrilled -- we want to welcome you to Tampa as
09:50:04 the director of the children's museum.
09:50:06 We are so pleased we are at this point of the
09:50:08 agreement.
09:50:09 And I have a specific request from some parents who
09:50:12 are very interested in adjacent to the children's
09:50:15 museum instead of putting in traditional landscaping,
09:50:19 the children have the experience of a community garden
09:50:21 which I thought was a superb recommendation.
09:50:24 We don't have any community gardens downtown.
09:50:26 How great it would be for the children to use this as

09:50:28 a learning tool.
09:50:29 So as you work with your landscape architect and Mr.
09:50:35 Balsley and your architect please plan on some spigots
09:50:38 so that you can do a community garden adjacent to the
09:50:41 children's museum.
09:50:42 I think that would really be a dream.
09:50:45 Thank you.
09:50:48 >>> Ms. Saul-Sena, there is planning and actually in
09:50:53 the drawing of the site, there is a mention of a
09:50:55 discovery garden in the area between the children's
09:50:58 museum and the Museum of Art.
09:51:00 There is really no definition as to what that
09:51:02 discovery garden is.
09:51:03 That's something for future planning and really
09:51:06 collaboration between us and TMA which is a wonderful
09:51:09 opportunity to work together to bring that park to
09:51:14 life.
09:51:14 Again we are looking forward to getting the museum
09:51:17 open and bringing art to the park.
09:51:20 Thank you.
09:51:20 >>MARY MULHERN: Following up on that, I'd like to
09:51:24 suggest, we are going to be voting on the funding for

09:51:27 Curtis Hixon, and some of that -- the museums are
09:51:37 sharing in that funding, I believe.
09:51:38 As we look at the design of Curtis Hixon park I think
09:51:41 that would be something that would be part of the
09:51:44 design adjacent to the children's museum.
09:51:47 Thank you.
09:51:47 >> We certainly will share that with Mr. Balsley as he
09:51:55 moves forward.
09:51:55 >> Excellent idea.
09:51:57 Anything else on that item?
09:51:58 Mr. Daignault, do you want to chat with us on six or
09:52:01 seven?
09:52:04 They are all sort of tied together.
09:52:06 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Administrator of public works and
09:52:09 utilities services.
09:52:11 Council members, this is an exciting day for us, in
09:52:16 the construction contracting area it's usually 80%
09:52:19 preparation and 20% execution.
09:52:20 I think this one might be at like 99% collaboration
09:52:24 and 20% execution.
09:52:25 So we are really pleased to be getting to the point of
09:52:28 doing some of this work.

09:52:29 It has been a long time.
09:52:31 A lot of things have been dealt with, a lot of
09:52:34 roadblocks and hurdles including the latest thing with
09:52:37 the strand issue.
09:52:38 So lots of issues have been overcome to get us to this
09:52:41 point.
09:52:43 One of the things that I would just like to point out
09:52:46 to you, and reiterate, the new version of Elmo, is --
09:52:54 let me see if I can --
09:52:57 There we go.
09:53:05 >> We cannot see this.
09:53:06 >> For the sake of the public, and council members
09:53:09 have seen this before, but for the public, the point
09:53:11 is that there are a number of projects that have to be
09:53:15 done, and they are tied together.
09:53:17 There is the relocation of the museum, the TMA folks,
09:53:21 and before they can relocate we have to provide an
09:53:23 interim facility.
09:53:24 So we are working on that.
09:53:28 There is again relocation that is demolition, start of
09:53:31 construction for the TMA.
09:53:33 There is a chiller plant that is essential to the TMA

09:53:38 and to the children's museum.
09:53:39 There is the riverwalk that is again an essential part
09:53:43 of the park.
09:53:43 So there are lots of contracts, lots of pieces here.
09:53:49 It is a tremendous coordination effort, just a
09:53:51 tremendous coordination effort.
09:53:53 And again we are trying to keep all of these in sync
09:53:56 with each other.
09:53:57 So again we appreciate your support.
09:53:59 It is again a monumental effort but it's moving
09:54:02 forward, and we are really pleased to be in that arena
09:54:06 at this point.
09:54:10 >> Thank you, Mr. Daignault.
09:54:11 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Item number 7, is anyone here from
09:54:14 staff?
09:54:19 I would have ask a representative of staff to come
09:54:21 forward, please.
09:54:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The proposed contractor for item
09:54:28 number 7, for the pre-construction is a million dollar
09:54:31 and many more millions will be following that later.
09:54:33 Go ahead, sir.
09:54:37 >>> Brian Schmitt. I'm with Skanska USA.

09:54:40 >>> I'm John Begoni. Vice president of
09:54:46 preconstruction for Skanska USA.
09:54:47 We thank you for putting this on the docket this
09:54:48 morning.
09:54:49 We are looking forward to having this thing move
09:54:50 forward.
09:54:52 And we are very excited as well as everybody else
09:54:53 within the City of Tampa.
09:54:56 And we have been doing our due diligence.
09:54:59 As Brian will testify probably for, what, eight months
09:55:03 now?
09:55:05 Oh we are really excited in this moving forward.
09:55:08 >>THOMAS SCOTT: This is also a partnership, right?
09:55:14 Do you want to highlight this for us?
09:55:15 >> I'm aware of it.
09:55:16 I think it's a good concept and I want to highlight
09:55:19 that.
09:55:19 >>> Jonathan Graham, a minority partner on it, he has
09:55:23 been a great help in locating local contractors in the
09:55:26 minority field to help us during the budget hearing
09:55:29 side of this.
09:55:30 He's been a very good help to us in getting minority

09:55:33 subcontractors in the local subcontractor market.
09:55:35 >> And the whole concept is taking a minority person
09:55:38 and having them work along with the prime, am I
09:55:44 correct?
09:55:44 So I just want to point out this is an excellent
09:55:47 opportunity and excellent concept who came forward
09:55:51 with this.
09:55:52 I guess last year, as I talked to you guys about it.
09:55:55 I want to commend you for that and I'm more than happy
09:55:58 to support that and this is the kind of joint venture
09:56:01 that we ought to have more of here in the city.
09:56:04 So congratulations.
09:56:05 Thank you for that.
09:56:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We appreciate you pointing that
09:56:09 out, Mr. Scott.
09:56:11 Ms. Mulhern?
09:56:12 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to, if we can, move item
09:56:14 5.
09:56:14 And have discussion on 6 and 7 separately.
09:56:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think that's fine.
09:56:23 Motion on item 5, children's museum agreement.
09:56:26 Any further discussion?

09:56:29 (Motion carried).
09:56:31 Motion passes.
09:56:32 Congratulations.
09:56:33 Any more discussion on item 6 or 7?
09:56:35 6 is Mr. Balsley's contract for almost $2 million.
09:56:39 7 is the pre-construction with Skanska.
09:56:49 >> I had a few questions that I would like to discuss
09:56:54 regarding the Balsley contract, and it's really
09:56:58 narrowing in to the part of the construction.
09:57:02 If you look at their, I guess, exhibit C, I don't know
09:57:06 if it's the scope of work, addendum, scope of
09:57:09 services.
09:57:10 It's in our material, and exhibit C, number 8 -- 6 and
09:57:19 8.
09:57:20 Has to do with Kiley Gardens.
09:57:23 And Mr. Daignault, I think maybe you could answer me
09:57:27 on item 6.
09:57:30 What is the pedestrian bridge that you're talking
09:57:33 about?
09:57:38 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: There is a link between Kiley and
09:57:40 the new Curtis Hixon park.
09:57:42 It was envisioned there would be a bridge from the

09:57:44 level of Kiley actually over to the parks building,
09:57:48 and then down to the park.
09:57:49 So that's the bridge that you are talking about.
09:57:52 >>> From the park?
09:57:55 >> From Kiley.
09:57:56 >> From Kiley.
09:57:57 >> Which is at a higher level than the new Curtis
09:57:59 Hixon park.
09:58:01 It would be a bridge over --
09:58:02 >> To the park building, is that right on the river?
09:58:09 Do you have a planning picture?
09:58:14 >>> Contract administration.
09:58:17 Dave Ryan.
09:58:18 In the current configuration, the Twiggs Street
09:58:22 entrance into the garage is a vehicular entrance and
09:58:25 access to the garage.
09:58:26 >> Why don't you point with your pen or something
09:58:32 there, Steve?
09:58:38 >>> This walkway, sidewalk will go all the way
09:58:41 through.
09:58:42 >>> Currently, that location is an intersection
09:58:46 between the existing museum and the Kiley Gardens.

09:58:51 You may recall that when you go on the existing plaza
09:58:54 about halfway there, there is sort of this indention
09:58:59 over to the park where the convention center used to
09:59:01 sit.
09:59:02 And so when that comes out, you have a difference in
09:59:06 grade and there has to be a connection and transition
09:59:08 from the park, from one park into the other.
09:59:12 It's separated out as a separate tract in this
09:59:15 proposal in order for to us track the cost of the --
09:59:19 there will be structural engineers, and all dealing
09:59:22 with how to make the bridge not fall down and all of
09:59:25 that stuff.
09:59:25 So it's pulled out as a separate path.
09:59:27 >>MARY MULHERN: Can you show me one more time exactly
09:59:31 from where to where?
09:59:32 >>> This is an existing -- the Twiggs' access into the
09:59:41 garage is here.
09:59:42 This will bring you from the park down into the Curtis
09:59:44 Hixon park.
09:59:46 It's actually providing an access point, and an
09:59:50 engagement between the two parks that does not exit at
09:59:53 this time.

09:59:54 >> One more time.
09:59:55 Show me where it starts, the new construction.
09:59:57 Right there?
09:59:57 >> Right there.
09:59:58 >> And is that -- where your pen just was, if you put
10:00:04 it back, and then you go north to that little green
10:00:07 square -- no, north.
10:00:11 Wait, I guess I'm not north.
10:00:12 West, west, sorry.
10:00:13 >> Toward the river.
10:00:15 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes, toward the arrive S.that where
10:00:18 the silver part of your pen is, right there?
10:00:21 Not where you are pointing but where it's covering.
10:00:23 Isn't that part of Kiley Park?
10:00:24 Or it's not?
10:00:25 Is that where the current museum is?
10:00:30 >> It's a park.
10:00:32 With weeping elm trees.
10:00:34 >>MARY MULHERN: That was part of Kiley Park.
10:00:37 >> That little image is currently, yes.
10:00:40 >> Oh, that's the part that's part of Kiley Park.
10:00:44 And the gray buildings?

10:00:47 >>> Restaurants.
10:00:48 >> What's there right now?
10:00:49 >>> Museum.
10:00:50 >> And what about if you go down that green sort of
10:00:56 square.
10:00:56 Is that part of Kiley Park right now?
10:00:59 >>> No.
10:01:00 That is currently museum plaza.
10:01:02 >> Oh.
10:01:05 All right.
10:01:06 Thanks.
10:01:06 That's great.
10:01:09 Then my other question is on number 8.
10:01:20 No, that's a different question.
10:01:21 I'm going to stick on the Kiley Park question.
10:01:23 I don't know if this comes in.
10:01:25 Number 6 is our contract with Balsley to do the park,
10:01:28 right?
10:01:28 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: That's correct.
10:01:35 >>MARY MULHERN: So my concern -- and I'm really not
10:01:37 certain that the contract addresses this.
10:01:40 But my concern is the preservation and restoration of

10:01:47 Kiley Park.
10:01:47 And as the -- as they are doing the investigation, and
10:01:53 studying the structure of the garage, I would like
10:01:58 part of that, I think part of that needs to be not to
10:02:02 tell us -- I don't want them to come back and tell us
10:02:04 we can't replant trees, and we can't restore anything
10:02:09 at Kiley Park, which I would like to point out -- and
10:02:12 I'm going to use the Elmo for my first time ever using
10:02:16 the Elmo or whatever that thing is called, I just want
10:02:18 to show a couple pictures of the original Kiley Park
10:02:22 so we remember what it looked like.
10:02:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I am thrilled to hear this because
10:02:30 of sunshine you can never talk about anything with
10:02:33 anybody prior to a public meeting.
10:02:35 And I'm pleased Ms. Mulhern shares this concern.
10:02:43 Thrilled.
10:02:57 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mrs. Mrs. Mulhern, you have three
10:02:59 minutes.
10:02:59 >> This surprise me when we had -- (off microphone) --
10:03:08 and one of the landscape architects who assisted who
10:03:12 passed away, on this park, originally this whole park
10:03:15 had a water feature.

10:03:16 There were these shallow fountains along Ashley drive
10:03:20 and all through there.
10:03:23 I'm just showing you, I don't imagine we are going to
10:03:25 get that back but this is a part of this historic park
10:03:29 that we have already lost.
10:03:33 This is the part which should be restored.
10:03:38 And there's been some discussion about -- these were
10:03:44 replacement trees that got cut down recently, and
10:03:48 apparently, the roots of which have been causing the
10:03:51 leaking in the garage.
10:03:53 So this probably isn't the species that can go back in
10:03:59 there but the original design for this park included
10:04:02 these flowering trees along this grid.
10:04:04 So as this study is happening, I want them to tell us
10:04:10 how they reconstruct that garage, how we can build
10:04:14 that garage, so that we will be able to restore the
10:04:18 landscaping that is the essential beauty of this park.
10:04:24 So we are going to be asked to approve a brand new
10:04:26 park that oh looks compared to Kiley Park a blank
10:04:36 slate, when we already had a beautiful downtown park
10:04:38 that is world renowned.
10:04:39 And I want to make sure that as we go forward with

10:04:44 these contracts, we determine how much it's going to
10:04:49 cost, and make that commitment to restoring Kiley Park
10:04:53 at the same time.
10:04:57 >> This will be helpful in --
10:05:04 Mr. Daignault.
10:05:06 >> Thank you.
10:05:06 >> Give us some reassurances.
10:05:08 >> First of all, the city is responsible for repairing
10:05:14 the leaks.
10:05:16 This is leasing down into the garage and -- leeching
10:05:20 down into the garage and causing problems down there.
10:05:22 The reason I ask you if we can have the Elmo again,
10:05:25 you see all of these cells.
10:05:28 The various cells are part of the problem.
10:05:31 We have each one of them.
10:05:32 And so as roots go down there and destroy or affect
10:05:37 the waterproofing, each of the cells independently can
10:05:41 be leaking.
10:05:42 So that has been part of the problem.
10:05:44 This contract -- and actually all you are approving
10:05:46 today will be a test case where they will check, do a
10:05:52 test on a couple of the cells to see if we can get a

10:05:55 good waterproofing program in there ultimately they
10:06:03 are going to remove the stuff, put back the
10:06:07 heartscape, put in a drainage, collection system, any
10:06:10 waterproofing, but they are not going to affect
10:06:12 whatsoever the integrity of what you can plant back in
10:06:18 there.
10:06:18 Now, then, after this work is done, we are
10:06:21 certainly -- going to want to be very studios as we
10:06:28 select what plants do go back in there.
10:06:32 We don't want to create another problem.
10:06:33 We certainly do want to be in concert with the looks
10:06:38 of Kiley.
10:06:39 But again, I don't think we want to create another
10:06:42 root problem for ourselves.
10:06:44 But this work that they are doing will not affect
10:06:49 that, is not affecting that.
10:06:53 >>MARY MULHERN: Let me follow up on that.
10:06:55 I -- I don't like to hear if, because you said we are
10:06:59 going to find out if.
10:07:00 And that's my point I.want them to find out how.
10:07:05 -- we can restore this park with trees, flowering
10:07:08 trees, of close to whatever the initial program that

10:07:13 Kiley developed.
10:07:15 I am very afraid that the study is going to come back
10:07:19 and say, well, we can't have that, because we can't,
10:07:23 you know, for whatever reason, we are still going to
10:07:25 have a leak.
10:07:26 I want them to find a solution that stops the leaks
10:07:32 and allows the trees to go back in.
10:07:34 And I know that it's possible, because there are roof
10:07:43 gardens all over the world that go on top of garages.
10:07:46 I would like to see this part of the task and I would
10:07:48 like to see language written in there that they tell
10:07:51 us how we can do the waterproofing, fix the garage,
10:07:56 and allow for trees to go back in.
10:07:59 And, you know, we are talking about landscape
10:08:01 architect.
10:08:03 We want to hear about the landscape, not just about
10:08:06 the roof.
10:08:07 >>> I understand.
10:08:10 Again the structural stability of the garage is also
10:08:12 in play here.
10:08:16 David has a comment.
10:08:17 >>> Separate from these agreements we have over the

10:08:20 past few months been engaged with structural engineer
10:08:23 and Reynold Smith and hills and their landscape
10:08:26 architects, regarding recommendations for
10:08:28 waterproofing.
10:08:30 The work that Skanska will be doing, it's a validating
10:08:35 the recommendations that they have made for waterproof
10:08:37 systems that should work.
10:08:39 One of the things that we don't know until we excavate
10:08:43 and remove the existing coating is exactly what is the
10:08:46 condition of the concrete below?
10:08:48 Is it cracked?
10:08:49 Is it not cracked?
10:08:50 Are we going to have an additional layer of concrete
10:08:52 repairs to do before we do waterproofing?
10:08:55 But in all of this, the philosophy and the approach to
10:08:59 this is that what we are doing in this contract will
10:09:03 not interfere with any future plans at whatever time
10:09:08 frame they occur to effect a restoration to whatever
10:09:12 level of Kiley is need.
10:09:18 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I very much appreciate you raising
10:09:20 this issue.
10:09:20 Kiley garden is recognized internationally as a

10:09:23 beautiful garden.
10:09:24 And under the city's maintenance, it unfortunately
10:09:27 deteriorated almost beyond recognition.
10:09:29 And the cutting down of all the trees has left it in a
10:09:35 dreadful condition.
10:09:37 I have been reassured by you that what you are doing
10:09:39 won't preclude its restoration.
10:09:42 But that isn't positive, that's like ground neutral.
10:09:46 What I would like to hear is it will literally support
10:09:49 its restoration, and that when this contract, when
10:09:53 they discover what's there, that council will be
10:09:57 presented with a plan for the restoration.
10:10:03 >> Mr. Caetano?
10:10:04 >> Mr. Daignault, those cells, I'm sure there's a way
10:10:10 to put some sort of drainage under there so that water
10:10:13 doesn't go down.
10:10:14 I'm not an engineer, but like Ms. Mulhern said, we are
10:10:18 building buildings and putting gardens up on the roof.
10:10:21 And I'm sure with the technology that was implemented
10:10:24 when this was built, it was not available as they have
10:10:27 now.
10:10:30 And I want to support that, also, to see that we don't

10:10:33 have more deterioration.
10:10:35 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Again, we have had engineering
10:10:39 folks who are expert in this area do that design and
10:10:42 that's why we want to do a test excavation and trial
10:10:46 first before we open up everything.
10:10:51 But you're right, this was done 20 years ago-ish, so
10:10:56 the technology has changed significantly.
10:10:58 So, again, we think that we are going to be able to
10:11:00 take care of that problem.
10:11:01 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Thank you.
10:11:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: When will the test on the project
10:11:09 be completed or at least undergone under the schedule
10:11:12 that we are at?
10:11:15 >>> Our intent is to begin that work in October.
10:11:17 And when we come back to you at the end of this year,
10:11:19 early in '08 with the GNP for the overall construction
10:11:23 and park that, the result of that test and our
10:11:26 direction and what the scope will be, will be included
10:11:28 in that.
10:11:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Why don't I suggest, prior to you
10:11:32 coming back -- and I'll entertain a motion perhaps in
10:11:36 early December when you have a better idea of how this

10:11:39 is coming, that you come back just with those specific
10:11:42 Kiley updates?
10:11:45 And that way, we can kind of separate it out from the
10:11:47 bigger picture of everything else that has to be done
10:11:50 on that issue.
10:11:54 I can't make the motion.
10:11:55 >>MARY MULHERN: I want to ask for something a little
10:11:59 further.
10:12:01 Because I want the assurance today, as we sign the
10:12:05 contract.
10:12:06 I would like to see a sentence, some language in that
10:12:10 contract, that asks for repair, or direction that will
10:12:20 allow restoration of similar landscape, or
10:12:28 originally-intended trees to be put back in.
10:12:31 Because, again, I'm afraid that we are going to hear,
10:12:35 we can't have trees, because there will still be
10:12:37 leaks.
10:12:38 And I don't think that's acceptable.
10:12:40 So I feel like I want some language or at least an
10:12:44 assurance from you that you won't be coming back to us
10:12:49 telling us we can't have the trees back in Kiley Park.
10:12:55 >> again, the work we are doing is to take care of the

10:12:57 leaking, to take care of the structural problems.
10:12:59 I think that -- and nothing that we are doing will
10:13:03 change what the city can put back in there.
10:13:07 Nothing.
10:13:07 So it will be up to us to make that determination.
10:13:10 Again, I think we need to be studios.
10:13:12 I think we need to be very careful, and I think we
10:13:15 need to consider all the possibilities when that time
10:13:17 comes.
10:13:18 But it's not part of this contract.
10:13:19 It's not part of this contract.
10:13:25 >> It sounded to me like if you want to make a motion
10:13:27 to ask staff -- it's good that the folks are here
10:13:31 because if staff wants to go back and confer with
10:13:34 Skanska and come up with an additional line or phrase
10:13:38 within that scope of services and this isn't the
10:13:42 Balsley scope, I think it would be the Skanska -- is
10:13:52 it Balsley dealing with this issue that we are talking
10:13:54 about on the Kiley issue?
10:13:58 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm looking at the Balsley scope of
10:14:01 services and number 6 which is a reference with them.
10:14:04 >> Does it reference them?

10:14:07 >>> Yes.
10:14:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Why don't we ask staff to look at
10:14:10 that are that for a few minutes and see if there's
10:14:13 anything they can give us more -- give us the
10:14:16 reassurances that Ms. Mulhern might want, it looks
10:14:23 like staff wants to talk to that for a minute.
10:14:29 I forgot your name.
10:14:32 Come on and help us.
10:14:37 >>> Yes, on item number 6, council, the program for
10:14:40 Kiley Park is to go in there and just do some
10:14:43 investigative work.
10:14:44 Basically come up with a system that will rewaterproof
10:14:46 that garage.
10:14:47 And also it will determine the structural element and
10:14:50 also the deficiencies in that garage which allow to us
10:14:53 determine if we can't put trees out there. Currently
10:14:56 now you do have palm trees out there in the park and
10:14:59 also the previous picture, the crepe myrtles.
10:15:04 We believe the structure should hold it but we are not
10:15:07 structural engineers.
10:15:08 Kiley program to see what the structural integrity is
10:15:11 and we are going to bring a lot of manufacturers to

10:15:12 the table to bring your system there to do some tests,
10:15:15 to see what is the best system for this garage.
10:15:19 >>MARY MULHERN: That's exactly what I am asking for.
10:15:21 As you do that and you are looking at these tests, the
10:15:26 goal of the test is to find a way not only to stop the
10:15:30 leaks but to be able to put the landscaping back.
10:15:33 And I think if that's your mission, maybe that
10:15:38 needs -- I don't know, is Kiley Park addressed in your
10:15:41 contract, too?
10:15:42 >>> We'll have three different contracts, or four
10:15:46 contracts.
10:15:46 One for Kiley, Curtis Hixon, the TMA and also the
10:15:50 energy plan.
10:15:51 But, yes, this pilot program is an entity we are doing
10:15:57 just to determine what the structure is and what the
10:15:58 best recommendations to put it back together.
10:16:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mrs. Mulhern, exhibit A, item 20 of
10:16:07 the Skanska project does seem to speak to the Kiley
10:16:12 project he was referring to.
10:16:13 >> I think you are who I am talking to because I want
10:16:16 you to help us restore the park as opposed to just we
10:16:21 stop the leaks but you can't put the park back.

10:16:23 >>> The wholly goal is to get the dirt out of the
10:16:27 cells as stated earlier, what the waterproofing
10:16:31 membrane is, if there's waterproofing membrane there,
10:16:34 what do we have to do in order to build into this
10:16:35 program, exactly what you are talking about, to get
10:16:38 the structural integrity up, to get the waterproofing
10:16:40 up, to get the water out of the cell, so nothing is
10:16:42 sitting in the cells to deteriorate later in life.
10:16:46 That's the whole purpose.
10:16:47 >>MARY MULHERN: And I want you to come back with
10:16:50 something, a recommendation that you can plant.
10:16:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let's finish this up, Mrs.
10:16:57 Saul-Sena.
10:16:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So the Skanska who are here, we
10:17:01 have copies of the books of Kiley garden where he's
10:17:05 recognized for it.
10:17:06 There's also a web site, Kiley garden.com which has
10:17:13 beautiful pictures and support from landscape
10:17:15 architects from all over America who recognize this,
10:17:19 it is the most significant piece of landscape
10:17:21 architecture in our region.
10:17:23 And we need to do everything we can in order to

10:17:26 refurbish it.
10:17:28 So you have got a wonderful responsibility.
10:17:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So we have two possibilities, Ms.
10:17:36 Mulhern.
10:17:36 We can pull this contract and see if they want to
10:17:38 tweak additional language to make you more
10:17:40 comfortable.
10:17:41 Or we can go ahead an let them proceed with the demo
10:17:44 project and come back to us in December and with an --
10:17:48 update.
10:17:50 >>MARY MULHERN: David, could we have -- could we
10:17:53 approve the contract and then have some language
10:17:55 added, an addendum or something?
10:17:58 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
10:17:59 What you are actually doing in you approving a
10:18:04 contract, where they are just going to come out,
10:18:06 remove the over burden and evaluate it.
10:18:09 The issues you want to address is going to be the next
10:18:11 stage, and that is, what's the contract to do the work
10:18:17 on Kiley?
10:18:18 This is just kind of a baseline.
10:18:20 They just evaluate.

10:18:22 Whether it's redwoods, palm trees, or crepe myrtles
10:18:29 but they'll evaluate what you can put there.
10:18:31 They have to come back to you with a contract to
10:18:33 approve the Kiley work.
10:18:35 And that's when you can look at the engineering data
10:18:38 and you can say, based upon your analysis, and you're
10:18:43 recommending, you know, why can't we do crepe myrtles?
10:18:49 If you can that's when you say he would aren't going
10:18:51 to approve --
10:18:52 >> Right.
10:18:53 But the reality is, as they are doing an evaluation,
10:18:56 they could evaluate anything.
10:18:58 I'm saying, this needs to be --
10:19:01 >>> not evaluating a construction.
10:19:02 It's kind of like --
10:19:06 >> Evaluating the structure and the integrity of the
10:19:07 structure which is going to be dependent on what you
10:19:09 put on top of it.
10:19:13 I know that's got to be part of their analysis.
10:19:15 >> But they'll determine the loads.
10:19:16 They won't determine the specific color, configuration
10:19:20 or anything.

10:19:21 It's really a mathematical issue for these gentlemen.
10:19:23 They will do their analysis.
10:19:26 We can put 18-tons of whatever we want to put on
10:19:29 there, whether it's water, like the old water feature,
10:19:32 whether it's trees, or whether it's a combination of
10:19:34 both.
10:19:34 They don't really determine anything other than that
10:19:37 at this juncture.
10:19:38 >>> I disagree, because they have to -- they are going
10:19:41 to determine how to fix the structure, and how strong,
10:19:47 how much load is going to be accommodated is going to
10:19:52 depend on what they are recommending for those
10:19:55 improvements, or those repairs that are going to come
10:19:58 to us later.
10:19:59 So we may get, okay, here's what we need to do, here's
10:20:03 the contract for repairing the roof.
10:20:07 And it will be a solution that will accommodate the
10:20:13 park, the trees.
10:20:18 >>> There is an existing contract with Reynold, Smith
10:20:21 and hill and Walter P. Moore that had developed
10:20:24 recommendations for the waterproofing of this
10:20:27 structure.

10:20:28 They are based on and predicated on maintaining the
10:20:32 ability to ultimately restore Kiley garden.
10:20:37 The work that is in the Skanska contract is a pilot
10:20:42 project to validate and verify those recommendations.
10:20:45 So the approach and the direction to all of this is
10:20:48 from the perspective of how can we fix this so that we
10:20:53 don't eliminate and/or allow the future restoration of
10:20:58 Kiley garden?
10:21:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Miranda.
10:21:02 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
10:21:04 I was back there drinking water watching on
10:21:06 television.
10:21:06 You look pretty good.
10:21:07 Let me say this from what I've heard is that what this
10:21:13 is to do a test to see how much PSI or pounds per
10:21:16 square inch that will hold without penetration or
10:21:19 something to that degree, but not specifically for
10:21:22 that, to clear that out, and to find out how to fix a
10:21:26 problem that we have had.
10:21:27 If this doesn't go through, and we don't know what the
10:21:31 problems are, how can we fix them?
10:21:34 There's been a problem there for many years.

10:21:37 It was a very well intended idea.
10:21:39 It's just that idea didn't quite work.
10:21:42 Usually water travels down, not up.
10:21:44 So these things finds its lowest point so these things
10:21:50 are the things they are trying to find out to
10:21:54 eliminate the problem we have and go forward and plant
10:21:56 whatever they want to plant that makes it look good
10:21:58 including some Cuban banana trees, and things of this
10:22:02 nature, that would make the park very eye pleasant,
10:22:08 comforting, and you can sit there with your girlfriend
10:22:11 and your wife and -- (laughter) --
10:22:25 That thought did cross my mind.
10:22:28 But I know my wife is watching.
10:22:29 So I didn't say anything.
10:22:32 But I'm clean and free of any disease or girlfriends
10:22:37 so I promise that.
10:22:38 All right, we go forward.
10:22:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You guys are test MIG chair ability
10:22:44 here.
10:22:46 I want a motion one way or the other.
10:22:48 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm going to make a motion that we get
10:22:51 a report.

10:22:52 What did you originally --
10:22:54 >> What I suggested was they come back in December
10:22:56 with a Kiley update because I think at that point we
10:22:58 should have an idea --
10:23:00 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to make that motion, and
10:23:02 also ask Mr. Romnack, I would like -- what is the
10:23:09 company?
10:23:10 >>> There are actually two.
10:23:11 One of them is the report, the joint report by Reynold
10:23:14 Smith and hill and Walter P. Moore that had the
10:23:17 waterproofing recommendations.
10:23:19 We have also performed as requested by council in
10:23:23 earlier discussions a level 2 documentation report
10:23:27 that Presley and associates out of Boston, which is
10:23:30 adjacent to Harvard, where the Kiley archives are, I
10:23:35 have that report in now, that documents and gives
10:23:39 recommendations as well.
10:23:40 I have both of those documents and now ready to share.
10:23:43 >>> If I could get copies of those.
10:23:45 And I don't know if everyone else wants them but
10:23:47 probably I would like to move that, and then move --
10:23:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: First regular meeting.

10:23:56 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Staff reports under unfinished
10:23:59 business.
10:24:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We have a motion and second for
10:24:02 that specific request.
10:24:04 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
10:24:06 All opposed?
10:24:08 I'll entertain a motion for item 6 and.
10:24:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
10:24:12 >> Second.
10:24:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Hopefully no further discussion.
10:24:15 All in favor of the motion?
10:24:18 (Motion carried).
10:24:18 Those passed unanimously.
10:24:19 Any opposed?
10:24:20 All right.
10:24:22 Now we go on to --
10:24:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a copy of the book I'll scan
10:24:30 for people.
10:24:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Staff reports --
10:24:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, I believe there was
10:24:37 item number -- the issue that -- I believe it was item
10:24:41 number 19 that council member Scott had a question on.

10:24:49 Staff is present for that.
10:24:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Item 19.
10:24:54 >> Martinez, assistant city attorney.
10:24:58 Reverend Scott, I understand the concern was
10:25:01 actually -- the project was described on the staff
10:25:09 report or the agenda cover sheet.
10:25:11 Basically, what the project is is the expansion by the
10:25:17 Department of Transportation, and the city
10:25:19 traditionally will work with the Department of
10:25:20 Transportation to facilitate that.
10:25:23 Our subordination agreements basically provide that we
10:25:29 will work D.O.T., allow them to move our utilities.
10:25:34 They will cover our expenses.
10:25:35 That way, the roadway is facilitated.
10:25:38 I will pass your concerns off to the division of real
10:25:40 estate to make sure that a more meaningful description
10:25:45 is in the future.
10:25:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think councilman Mulhern -- when you
10:25:54 look at the agenda item, both the ordinance title and
10:25:58 the background is identically the same.
10:26:01 They don't give you any background information:
10:26:05 >>> I have seen a memorandum requesting it not be

10:26:08 done.
10:26:09 Apparently it still gets done by some but we'll pass
10:26:13 that concern on to them.
10:26:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ms. Mulhern, any more question on
10:26:18 that?
10:26:19 >>MARY MULHERN: No, I think I understand if you're
10:26:21 comfortable with what they are saying.
10:26:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Of course we'll encourage
10:26:26 generically all staff and legal to give us as much
10:26:29 background information as possible so we don't have to
10:26:33 hold things up and bother staff.
10:26:37 Okay.
10:26:37 Motion and second.
10:26:38 Do I have a motion for item 19?
10:26:40 I have a motion and a second.
10:26:42 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
10:26:45 Any opposed?
10:26:46 Motion passes unanimously.
10:26:47 Item 34, stormwater department to appear and provide a
10:26:51 report, for stormwater run-off, causing pollution in
10:26:56 the Hillsborough River.
10:26:58 And members of clean water action group invited to

10:27:01 attend as well.
10:27:05 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Administrator of public works and
10:27:07 utility services again.
10:27:13 The question was, what is the city doing in regard to
10:27:15 pollution to the Hillsborough River?
10:27:18 First of all, the Hillsborough River drains a very
10:27:21 large basin.
10:27:22 It drains about 690 square miles to include parts of
10:27:27 Pasco and Polk County, and from time to time, actually
10:27:31 gets run-over water, or overflow water from the
10:27:36 Withlacoochee river.
10:27:37 Again it extends well beyond the city's boundaries.
10:27:43 About 54 miles into the Hillsborough bay.
10:27:47 Of those 690 square miles that drain into the river,
10:27:50 only about 30 square miles are within the city, and
10:27:54 part of that is in the upper or above the dam and some
10:27:57 of it is below the dam.
10:27:59 Of the 30 square miles, about 15 square miles already
10:28:03 has stormwater treatment of some sort, filtration or
10:28:06 some other sort before it outfalls into the river.
10:28:11 And the river is monitored by a number of state,
10:28:15 regional and local agencies.

10:28:17 Water quality concerns include bacteriological,
10:28:20 dissolved oxygen, and flotsam, trash and debris that's
10:28:26 in there.
10:28:27 I want to give you an idea of some of the things, some
10:28:30 of the initiatives the city has.
10:28:32 One last thing.
10:28:33 Within the city, and much of unincorporated
10:28:37 Hillsborough County, where they are in the city's
10:28:40 service area, most of those people, essentially all of
10:28:44 those people are on city sewer so there's very few
10:28:48 septic tanks to deal with as well.
10:28:50 But some of the city directives, or supported
10:28:53 initiatives, include that there is a project currently
10:28:56 going on by USF, it's supported by a number of
10:29:01 environmental agencies and it's to test all of the
10:29:03 outfalls.
10:29:03 Intent is to tray to find locations, and sources of
10:29:07 contamination that would flow into the river.
10:29:13 Our advantage, as I mentioned we already have the
10:29:15 sewer collection system.
10:29:16 The city has a street sweeping program, that also
10:29:20 helps us.

10:29:21 Additionally, the clean city division affects what
10:29:27 goes on along the river as well as the mayor's
10:29:29 beautification program helps clean litter and stuff
10:29:31 before it enters the river and along the river.
10:29:35 We are -- require developers to plan for and treat the
10:29:38 first half inch of stormwater run-off if their
10:29:41 property is more than 50% impervious.
10:29:43 City has installed 28 stormwater filters, city-wide,
10:29:49 12 more are under final design or construction at this
10:29:52 time, eight of the existing ones are along the lower
10:29:56 Hillsborough River, three of the new 12 that are under
10:30:00 design will be along the lower Hillsborough River, and
10:30:02 we have about $3 million that will be spent on
10:30:04 filtration devices over the next 18 to 24 months, and
10:30:09 60% of that money has come from grants.
10:30:12 So again just wanted to give you some information from
10:30:15 the staff perspective on drainage into the river.
10:30:20 >>MARY MULHERN: Mr. Daignault, the reason -- thank you
10:30:26 for all this information.
10:30:29 It's very helpful.
10:30:30 And the reason that I had asked for a report and had
10:30:33 invited clean water action to come and participate in

10:30:37 the discussion, which was part of the motion, was
10:30:41 because of the very bad fish kill that we had about a
10:30:45 month ago, on the lower Hillsborough, and, you know,
10:30:50 the explanation for it was that it was stormwater, it
10:30:56 was a big storm, and the run-off into the river
10:31:03 basically killed the fish, because they didn't have
10:31:05 the oxygen that they needed because of that.
10:31:08 So I know that we have heard from some of the clean
10:31:13 water action and some other people who had some really
10:31:16 interesting and affordable new filter systems.
10:31:20 So I wanted them to show that to us, and to you, and I
10:31:24 have one question for you.
10:31:26 When you are talking about the stormwater filters, the
10:31:30 28 that we have, and then the 12 new ones on the lower
10:31:33 Hillsborough, how many outflows are there?
10:31:38 I mean, of all of the filters that we need, what
10:31:42 percentage has already been installed?
10:31:44 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: I am going to say there is in the
10:31:49 order of 200 outfalls.
10:31:52 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
10:31:53 Thank you.
10:31:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.

10:31:55 And I think there are some folks here from the clean
10:31:57 water action group, or other similar groups.
10:32:01 Cathy Aturno and Mary Ann Cousone.
10:32:14 >> My name is Cathy Aturno. I'm the Florida director
10:32:15 of Clean Water Action.
10:32:16 As you know, we are a national organization but also
10:32:21 have offices here in the city, and about 8,000 members
10:32:24 within the city.
10:32:27 We have been extremely -- joining me today is Mary
10:32:30 Cousone, clean water action member but more
10:32:36 importantly with a local group called Save Our Canals,
10:32:39 and we have joined together on a project called WARM,
10:32:42 which is a Water and Cultural Area Restoration and
10:32:44 Maintenance program.
10:32:45 And we have been going to local units of government in
10:32:51 an attempt to talk to them about designing pollution
10:32:55 prevention programs, such as filtration.
10:33:00 We believe, and Mary Ann is going to speak to a pilot
10:33:04 project done in the county last year, that was
10:33:06 extremely successful.
10:33:08 We believe some of these things are doing a cost
10:33:11 benefit analysis much more easy to do, user friendly,

10:33:18 and part of our project is also very education
10:33:22 oriented and partnership oriented, not only units of
10:33:27 government, but businesses and the public, so that we
10:33:29 all take ownership and pride in polluting prevention.
10:33:35 We feel that it's -- some of the stuff that we are
10:33:39 talking about southbound investing $50,000 in
10:33:43 something, and considering how much money we have to
10:33:47 pay to clean up pollution after the fact, this is a
10:33:51 very small investment.
10:33:55 We have found through our members, most people don't
10:33:57 even know where their stormwater drains are.
10:34:00 They have no clue that they are part of the problem of
10:34:04 what they dispose of, what fertilizers and pesticides
10:34:07 they put on their grass, what their dog does, you
10:34:10 know.
10:34:11 Everything else.
10:34:12 But yet they are the first ones that are talking about
10:34:15 "I don't get to use my recreational waters, I can't
10:34:21 come in like I used to, I can't enjoy some of the
10:34:24 privileges of one of the reasons why I live in this
10:34:26 area to enjoy the Hillsborough River."
10:34:30 And so we are here in offering support.

10:34:33 We would like to help you in getting out the message
10:34:37 to the public, and work with the department on
10:34:41 identifying if not all the drains and do things like
10:34:47 stenciling of the drains to tell people again, this is
10:34:50 a drain.
10:34:50 This goes right out into the bay.
10:34:53 And so that's one of the reasons that we thank you
10:34:57 very much for providing us an opportunity.
10:34:59 I am going to leave you some materials here on our
10:35:03 "warm" project and encourage you to ask any types of
10:35:06 questions.
10:35:07 Mary Ann is going to briefly go through for you what
10:35:10 the pilot project in the county was that we are
10:35:14 looking to replicate.
10:35:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Daignault is the head of
10:35:24 utilities and stormwater, so I hope you will
10:35:26 coordinate with each other on that issue.
10:35:28 >>> My name is Mary Ann Capone, and I work with save
10:35:33 our canals, and so Kathy and I have been working on
10:35:36 this project together to help prevent pollution and do
10:35:43 some general outreach and education of the public,
10:35:45 because we too have found through our pilot project

10:35:49 that I am going to discuss in a minute.
10:35:50 People just really don't understand that the drains go
10:35:54 directly to water bodies and not just simply things
10:35:56 like not discarding trash in them or throwing
10:36:00 cigarette butts in the street or picking up dog waste
10:36:02 and things of that nature, not discarding yard
10:36:06 clippings into the streets and into the drains can
10:36:08 make a really big difference.
10:36:11 I think I am going need some help on this.
10:36:13 I just wanted to show you some pictures.
10:36:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Put it on there, see how it works.
10:36:21 >>> For the bottom picture first that I want to show
10:36:23 you is what our filtration devices look like.
10:36:26 They are called curb and wet baskets, and devices that
10:36:38 from large debris down to small sediment.
10:36:41 So the bottom picture --
10:36:47 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If you could take the microphone,
10:36:49 there's a hand-held next to you.
10:36:50 >>> Sure.
10:36:51 Okay.
10:36:52 So the side picture shows the installation into the
10:36:55 street drain.

10:36:55 Essentially, the manhole cover is removed, and these
10:37:00 baskets are retrofitted into the existing drains so
10:37:02 there's very little construction, and each basket is
10:37:04 specifically designed for each individual drain.
10:37:07 So they are individually measured and installed.
10:37:11 The top picture is what the basket looks like after
10:37:15 four months.
10:37:15 And so you can see that there is an amount of leaves
10:37:20 and sed sediment and debris inside.
10:37:23 I'll show you another closeup of that.
10:37:26 Again, leaves, debris, sediment.
10:37:29 We did two collections in 2006.
10:37:32 They were initially installed in 39 street drains, in
10:37:37 a waterfront community in north Hillsborough County,
10:37:39 town and country area.
10:37:41 And we ended up with over two tons of material in the
10:37:45 course of less than a year.
10:37:46 We found things like clothing, shoes, food wrappers,
10:37:53 concrete, you know, indicating that people have no
10:37:56 idea that these things go out.
10:37:58 One basket was entirely filled with concrete from a
10:38:02 construction project near a home.

10:38:04 They just took a bag of concrete and dumped it into
10:38:07 the street drain.
10:38:08 >> How often do they need to be changed?
10:38:10 That would be a concern in terms of cost and
10:38:12 operation.
10:38:12 >>> Absolutely.
10:38:13 Pilot project we did, once every four months.
10:38:16 So three times a year.
10:38:17 And that seemed to be good.
10:38:19 Reason we picked the location we did is it had heavy
10:38:23 tree cover and was one of the largest populated
10:38:25 waterfront areas in Hillsborough County.
10:38:26 So essentially we used the worst case scenario as a
10:38:30 test.
10:38:31 Costwise, they were only $500 per basket.
10:38:35 That included fabrication and installation.
10:38:37 And in terms of maintenance, it cost us about $1500
10:38:41 each maintenance.
10:38:42 So they are very cost effective, and they are
10:38:44 extremely successful.
10:38:46 I just want to also show you briefly the success rate
10:38:50 on these, which also Kathy has in the packet that

10:38:53 she's providing to you.
10:38:59 So that was what we collected over the course of just
10:39:01 less than a year.
10:39:03 The first collection was 2688 pounds and the second
10:39:09 collection was 2594 pounds.
10:39:11 So that was over the course of nine months.
10:39:12 (Bell sounds).
10:39:13 And they also, in addition to collecting debris and
10:39:16 sediment and things of that nature, absorbed
10:39:20 chemicals.
10:39:23 If you saw how the white hydrocarbon dew on it, and
10:39:28 oils and grease and chemicals as well.
10:39:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Any questions?
10:39:33 >>MARY MULHERN: For your pilot project that you did
10:39:38 for the county, did you have some grant money, or was
10:39:41 there help in funding for that?
10:39:43 >>> Yes, we got just over $40 that you from the EPC
10:39:49 pollution recovery fund for the project.
10:39:51 >> The EPC, the Hillsborough County EPC?
10:39:54 >>> Correct.
10:39:54 >> Do you think there might be federal or state funds
10:39:57 available for us to do something like this?

10:39:59 >>> There's quite a bit of money available for things
10:40:02 of this nature. In fact save our canals looked at a
10:40:04 number of grants and tried to help funnel them to the
10:40:07 county to support this.
10:40:09 I think the issue has been there aren't staff writers
10:40:15 so we have suggested partnering with either the city
10:40:18 or the county for groups like ours to help work on the
10:40:22 grants, and then jointly do projects such as this.
10:40:25 >> And then the other thing that occurred to me, my
10:40:29 concern when I first asked for this report from staff
10:40:31 was about the river.
10:40:34 But big topic with us, and I think my question for you
10:40:37 is, is this part of the motion for people in town and
10:40:42 country to want this, is the filtering and the
10:40:46 dredging requirements and their canals.
10:40:48 We have the same problems in the Westshore area, and
10:40:54 it's a big topic for us.
10:40:55 So maybe we could hear from Mr. Daignault, too, about
10:41:00 how many filters we have in that area, and where we
10:41:04 could go with that.
10:41:05 But it seems like if there's any way we could do a
10:41:08 pilot project we have the river and we have the bay --

10:41:11 the canals that are really in need.
10:41:14 >>> Certainly the sedimentation was a big motivation.
10:41:18 It was really both a joint thing for the environment,
10:41:22 and things for the health, the bottom of the canals,
10:41:26 because these particular filters catch the floatables
10:41:32 as well as the sediment and the grease so all of that
10:41:34 in mind makes for a much cleaner water area and seen
10:41:38 significant improvements over the course of the last
10:41:40 year.
10:41:40 The canal appearances have been dramatically better.
10:41:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to hear from Mr.
10:41:51 Daignault.
10:41:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
10:41:55 Steve, do we have any of these?
10:42:01 >>> No, we do not.
10:42:02 Keep in mind the filters that we have put in do the
10:42:04 same thing further downstream.
10:42:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: When we discuss this, you said we
10:42:11 are doing the other filters in the river.
10:42:13 And frankly it seems to me that we need both.
10:42:15 And way wondered is, do we have an environmental
10:42:21 grants writer on staff, and if we do, can we get them

10:42:24 to work on finding some additional resources to
10:42:29 implement this as a pilot project?
10:42:32 And if we don't, can we hire somebody to do that?
10:42:35 >>> We have been pretty successful with grants.
10:42:37 >> Do we have someone on staff?
10:42:39 >>> Well, our staff writes them and we have the to
10:42:43 help from time to time but we have been very
10:42:44 successful with getting grants from EPC and SWFWMD.
10:42:48 So, I mean, we can continue to pursue grants for this
10:42:53 and other types of filtration, and as I mentioned
10:42:56 earlier, about 60% of the $3 million that we are going
10:42:59 to spend over the next year, year and a half, year and
10:43:02 a half to two years, is grant money.
10:43:07 >> Well, the way that the City of Tampa was set up in
10:43:09 terms of the storm drainage is basically everything
10:43:12 went into the water, without any kind of filtration.
10:43:16 So we have a city-wide need, but most particularly
10:43:19 adjacent to our rivers and bay.
10:43:21 So what I would like to request, I know we can't
10:43:24 direct the administration to do anything but I would
10:43:26 like to respectfully request that you work with clean
10:43:28 water action, pursue some money to do this on a pilot

10:43:32 basis, perhaps trying to get resources from the EPC
10:43:36 based on the success that they had in the original
10:43:40 project, and give us an update in 90 days, which would
10:43:43 be the first meeting -- let's make it -- let's make it
10:43:50 the second council meeting in December rather than the
10:43:52 first one in January.
10:43:55 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Point out to council, I don't know
10:43:57 how long you wish to discuss it but under the new
10:43:59 process, staff reports will be briefer.
10:44:03 But just to point out that the December 20th
10:44:06 meeting will be your last meeting before --
10:44:09 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay, no, a staff report.
10:44:11 It can be a discrete report like we are working with,
10:44:13 and then we have applied to these grants and we are
10:44:15 looking forward to getting them.
10:44:22 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a question on the motion.
10:44:24 Second it.
10:44:24 I want to point out that Mrs. Capone just volunteered,
10:44:29 I think, as an activist and environmentalist, she's
10:44:32 done a lot of grant writing, and clean water action,
10:44:35 we might be able to get some help with, you know, with
10:44:38 staff doing it.

10:44:40 I think it's a fantastic opportunity and I'll second
10:44:43 Linda's motion.
10:44:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Motion and second.
10:44:48 Any other questions?
10:44:49 (Motion carried)
10:44:51 Steve, we'll see you back in December, see how you are
10:44:54 working with these folks.
10:44:55 The next item, item 35, Mr. Shelby.
10:44:59 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, council.
10:45:00 Prior to item number 35 --
10:45:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Miranda and Mr. Caetano, we are
10:45:07 going to need you back for this item.
10:45:08 >>MARTIN SHELBY: With regard to this item and all
10:45:10 other public hearings that will follow, there are
10:45:14 items that need to be received and filed prior to
10:45:16 action.
10:45:16 So I would ask that motion.
10:45:18 >> So moved.
10:45:20 >> Second.
10:45:23 (Motion carried).
10:45:23 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, you are here under --
10:45:28 unfinished business under rule 4-C because of the

10:45:33 failure to obtain four votes either in support or in
10:45:35 opposition to the matter.
10:45:36 The public hearing is closed, and I believe there were
10:45:44 two members of council absent.
10:45:46 Council member Saul-Sena, council member Caetano, and
10:45:49 when Mr. Caetano comes back I will ask him if he's
10:45:52 prepared to vote.
10:45:54 And, council, a reminder that the entire council will
10:45:57 vote on this item.
10:45:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Caetano is walking in.
10:46:04 Madam clerk, do you want to restate the motion?
10:46:07 >>THE CLERK: The motion was that said ordinance be
10:46:17 placed on first reading and the title of the ordinance
10:46:20 was read in full.
10:46:22 Would you like for me to read the title?
10:46:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
10:46:26 Go ahead.
10:46:34 Why don't you go ahead and read the item so that have
10:46:39 been is clear on what we are voting on.
10:46:40 And then we'll have questions and discussion.
10:46:42 We will not be entertaining public comment unless
10:46:44 there's a motion accordingly to reopen the public

10:46:47 hearing.
10:46:47 Yes, ma'am.
10:46:49 >>THE CLERK: This is an ordinance vacating, closing,
10:46:51 discontinuing, and abandoning a certain right-of-way,
10:46:57 all of that certain portion of southward street, from
10:47:00 Kennedy Boulevard to north of Cleveland street, and
10:47:05 Hesperides subdivision, a subdivision in the City of
10:47:07 Tampa, Hillsborough County, Florida, the same being
10:47:11 more fully described in section 2 hereof, providing an
10:47:15 effective date.
10:47:20 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm sorry I'm talking so much today.
10:47:23 Maybe I'll learn my lesson.
10:47:27 I have been advised by legal council that I need to
10:47:30 disclose, I had a conversation.
10:47:32 We are not sure if it's ex parte or not but I need to
10:47:37 disclose that last Friday, the day after the first
10:47:40 hearing on this, I had a meeting with Don Skelton, the
10:47:46 director of district 7, and art Clifford about a
10:47:51 totally separate matter, and I brought up the subject
10:47:56 of the closure of ward, and the proposed zoning change
10:48:00 on Kennedy.
10:48:01 And asked them if they were aware of it.

10:48:06 Mr. Clifford said that he did remember seeing the
10:48:11 vacation request.
10:48:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So that's your disclosure.
10:48:17 >>MARY MULHERN: That's my disclosure.
10:48:20 I don't know if I need to disclose what the
10:48:22 conversation was.
10:48:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The sum and substance, I believe did
10:48:27 you disclose that.
10:48:28 Now, did you want to -- there was a report from the
10:48:33 Florida Department of Transportation, that you obtain
10:48:36 from city staff, and as a result of that
10:48:39 conversation --
10:48:41 >>MARY MULHERN: Right.
10:48:42 As a result of that conversation --
10:48:43 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And I have provided a copy of that
10:48:45 report to the attorney for petitioner.
10:48:48 >>> Right.
10:48:48 >> Mr. Ron Weaver.
10:48:49 I have copies here for council, if it's appropriate.
10:48:52 >>> So because of the conversation I came back and I
10:48:55 realized that I hadn't -- we hadn't heard or seen the
10:49:01 report from FDOT in the first hearing.

10:49:06 As a result, Abbye Feeley did provide us yesterday a
10:49:12 copy of the Florida Department of Transportation
10:49:17 report.
10:49:20 So I think --
10:49:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Point of order.
10:49:26 Let me -- it sound like we are going to need to get
10:49:29 that report in the record since one person has already
10:49:31 seen it, I guess all members should probably have the
10:49:34 opportunity to see it.
10:49:41 If she's seen it, you need to get it into the record.
10:49:44 >>MARTIN SHELBY: First of all, I cannot say -- I don't
10:49:47 believe that it's presently in the record, number one.
10:49:49 Number two is -- I'm sorry, go ahead?
10:49:54 Number two is, Florida statutes 286.0115, allows for
10:50:02 being able to do site inspections, and receive
10:50:07 comments from experts, as long as it's disclosed prior
10:50:10 to taking action.
10:50:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: My only question to you, Mr.
10:50:15 Shelby, does that document need to get into the
10:50:17 record?
10:50:17 If it does, will it be reopened for the limited
10:50:21 purpose of putting it into the record?

10:50:23 I'm asking you your legal opinion.
10:50:26 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If Ms. Mulhern says that her vote
10:50:28 will change as a result of something that's outside
10:50:30 the record and she wishes to get it into the record,
10:50:32 then perhaps that's needed.
10:50:34 If council wishes to see what that document is before
10:50:36 it votes, then council on its own can open the public
10:50:39 hearing for the purpose of doing that.
10:50:41 >>MARY MULHERN: Can I finish what I was going to say?
10:50:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The point of order was so go ahead.
10:50:47 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you for that.
10:50:49 And it kind of clarified for me, too.
10:50:52 What my question is now if S if this report that the
10:50:58 city received from FDOT was a part of the site plan,
10:51:02 then it is part of the record.
10:51:09 So I think we need to open the public record to ask
10:51:11 staff and petitioner if this report -- because of what
10:51:16 was said on here, if it's part of the site plan, I
10:51:22 don't --
10:51:24 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Question.
10:51:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Scott.
10:51:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You have to be real careful here, you

10:51:31 all.
10:51:32 Because if it's not part of the record then you are
10:51:35 talking about new evidence.
10:51:36 If it's new evidence then you have to go back and
10:51:37 rehear and you have to give people an opportunity to
10:51:40 rebut or respond to that.
10:51:42 So you have to be very careful here on this particular
10:51:44 issue, okay?
10:51:46 I have not seen the documentation.
10:51:47 My vote has not changed.
10:51:48 But you could open up something here.
10:51:54 If it fails could you be opening up for a lawsuit.
10:51:57 I'm just telling you.
10:51:58 So I would be very careful here.
10:52:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I reviewed the tape.
10:52:04 I am not familiar with this.
10:52:05 Personally, I think this is a very important decision,
10:52:10 and I think information -- I think I would like to
10:52:13 move to open -- to open, to receive this information.
10:52:18 This is a big deal.
10:52:19 And this is the Florida Department of Transportation.
10:52:22 I have no idea what it is.

10:52:23 But I think it would be important information to
10:52:25 consider.
10:52:25 >>MARY MULHERN: And it may be -- if the notes are on
10:52:29 the site plan, it's fine.
10:52:31 If and I do have to say that none of this is going to
10:52:36 influence my vote.
10:52:37 My vote is not going to change.
10:52:40 For what that's worth.
10:52:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ms. Coyle, is this document already
10:52:45 part of the record?
10:52:46 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
10:52:47 Document is part of the zoning file.
10:52:48 It is the response from FDOT to the zoning petition
10:52:51 that has nothing -- it was not part not a request for
10:52:57 that specific information.
10:52:57 >> But does that involve separate from the vacating?
10:53:01 >>> Yes.
10:53:02 And that was my concern, that it's a separate
10:53:04 petition, it's not on the agenda today.
10:53:05 >> Okay.
10:53:08 So you have reviewed the letter.
10:53:10 You're familiar with the letter.

10:53:11 >>> Correct.
10:53:11 >> And, in your opinion, the letter relates to the
10:53:14 zoning petition, not to the vacating?
10:53:18 >>> There is one request, just for the information of
10:53:21 a vacating to be transferred to the D.O.T.
10:53:23 The rest of the comments are related to Kennedy
10:53:25 Boulevard as it relates to the development itself.
10:53:30 The rezoning itself.
10:53:37 >>SAL TERRITO: Legal department.
10:53:38 By asking questions you are opening a can of worms
10:53:40 here.
10:53:40 I think either you take the vote as it is if you want
10:53:42 to open the public hearing to get new evidence in you
10:53:44 can do that.
10:53:45 But you can't be having this conversation.
10:53:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We are rate rue on the edge, I
10:53:49 guess.
10:53:50 >>SAL TERRITO: Yes, you are.
10:53:52 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, if I can, if council makes a
10:53:54 determination that it's not relevant to this vacate,
10:53:58 remind -- to remind council that the PD will be coming
10:54:03 back for a second public hearing and adoption hearing,

10:54:09 at which point, if that is an issue that you is raised
10:54:12 then council can address it at the time if it wishes.
10:54:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What's council's pleasure?
10:54:17 There was a motion and a second but I'm not really
10:54:19 sure.
10:54:20 There has been some clarification so let's hear it.
10:54:25 >>MARY MULHERN: Open the public hearing.
10:54:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: With the limited purposes --
10:54:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ms. Mulhern, seconded by Mrs.
10:54:35 Saul-Sena, to open the public hearing for the limited
10:54:38 purpose of dealing and addressing that D.O.T.
10:54:40 document.
10:54:41 Mr. Miranda and then Mr. Caetano on that motion.
10:54:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm not a lawyer but I don't think
10:54:46 you can open a public hearing and then narrow it to
10:54:50 one and let the public not speak.
10:54:52 If you are going to open the public hearing, the
10:54:54 public can say anything it wishes to say on any item
10:54:58 regarding that petition.
10:54:59 I don't think you can say the D.O.T. usually handles
10:55:02 and maybe not in this case, they usually handle
10:55:05 ingress and outgress on a business street like Kennedy

10:55:09 and measures the distance from a traffic light,
10:55:12 traffic flows and so forth on a major arterial street.
10:55:16 Maybe they do get involved in small streets within the
10:55:20 city but I'm not aware that they do at that point.
10:55:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Withdraw my second.
10:55:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: There's a withdrawal of the second
10:55:32 which kind of moot it is motion.
10:55:34 Do you still want to speak?
10:55:36 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Yes.
10:55:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You are speaking now on the general
10:55:39 issue of the vacating the vote.
10:55:41 Cat cattle I did not review the tapes.
10:55:43 I watched it live at home.
10:55:45 I thought I was watching "Saturday Night Live."
10:55:49 >> We almost made it till midnight.
10:55:51 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I know it.
10:55:52 As council said, that we shouldn't discuss it any
10:55:54 further.
10:55:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And we know you were home for
10:55:58 personal family health reasons.
10:56:00 So we appreciate that.
10:56:02 We'll move forward with the motion that's on the floor

10:56:05 as read by the clerk.
10:56:06 The motion was to approve the vacating.
10:56:12 Is that correct?
10:56:15 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes, the motion was to approve the
10:56:17 vacating.
10:56:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Motion and second from previously
10:56:20 to approve the vacating.
10:56:22 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
10:56:23 All opposed?
10:56:26 All right.
10:56:26 Let's see a hand vote.
10:56:28 All in favor of the motion say -- hand up, motion to
10:56:33 vacate.
10:56:35 Three.
10:56:36 Opposed?
10:56:37 Mary?
10:56:39 Three to three.
10:56:40 And so we will carry this over till the next meeting,
10:56:43 which is when, Mr. Shelby?
10:56:46 >>MARTIN SHELBY: The next regular meeting, council, is
10:56:52 on October 18th.
10:56:55 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Carries over to October 18th

10:56:58 for Madam Chairman to come back.
10:56:59 Hopefully we'll have seven and break the tie.
10:57:02 Mr. Miranda?
10:57:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I want to say again these votes,
10:57:05 and certainly I can echo the sentiments of the other
10:57:08 council members, these votes are very difficult for us
10:57:10 to make.
10:57:14 They are one half of something, half of something
10:57:16 else.
10:57:18 I did get a lot of e-mails against.
10:57:20 I got some for.
10:57:23 It's something that you have to look not only for
10:57:25 today but what's going to happen there tomorrow, just
10:57:28 to go down, what's going to happen, how much traffic
10:57:31 count you are going to have going into the
10:57:32 neighborhood.
10:57:32 So this is not only based on the agenda item that we
10:57:36 have, but you have to look into the future.
10:57:38 And I'm not trying to sway anyone's vote at all.
10:57:40 But it's very difficult for to us do this.
10:57:45 I did ask the members of that wonderful part of the
10:57:49 city not to get upset with each other.

10:57:52 I wanted them to be a good neighbor.
10:57:54 That has not happened.
10:57:55 I have got some nasty e-mails regarding each other.
10:57:58 If you want to get mad at somebody, get mad at me but
10:58:02 don't get mad with your neighbor.
10:58:03 You have to live there, I don't.
10:58:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
10:58:06 There's a discussion with the attorneys on the timing
10:58:10 of the next date.
10:58:11 >>MARTIN SHELBY: With regard to rule 4 OC the matter
10:58:14 shall automatically be brought before the council at
10:58:16 the next regular council meeting as unfinished
10:58:20 business.
10:58:20 If council wishes to waive that rule and set it for
10:58:22 the first item let's say on an evening meeting county
10:58:25 choose to do so but that's not what the rule
10:58:27 contemplates.
10:58:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Miranda may have a scheduling
10:58:34 conflict.
10:58:35 >>> My wife and I have not had a vacation for a long
10:58:38 time.
10:58:38 We are looking leaving this Friday.

10:58:40 I don't know if I am going to be back by next
10:58:41 Thursday.
10:58:44 So I don't want to throw a monkey wrench into this
10:58:47 thing.
10:58:48 This thing has been monkey wrenched enough.
10:58:50 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I'm sorry to interrupt again
10:58:52 but just to bring to your attention rule 4, anytime
10:58:57 there is a need for a consideration by council, which
10:58:59 must be held at the next regular meeting, and there is
10:59:01 not a full council, that council may continue
10:59:04 reconsiderations of the next regular meeting when
10:59:06 there is a full council present.
10:59:08 >> Mr. Chairman, I'm just bringing that up as a
10:59:11 precaution.
10:59:11 I say I may not be.
10:59:14 Doesn't mean to say I will not be but there is a
10:59:16 possibility I will not be here.
10:59:17 >> Mr. Chairman?
10:59:19 I will not be here next Thursday evening.
10:59:27 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I am not going to be here that
10:59:28 day.
10:59:30 I have notified --

10:59:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Gee.
10:59:32 We have some problems.
10:59:32 Mr. Smith?
10:59:36 >>> David Smith, 401 east Jackson for the petitioner.
10:59:41 We can't have second reading on the zoning anyway
10:59:44 until a vacation is acted on.
10:59:45 So having action on the vacation on the 18th is
10:59:48 fine with the petitioner, because it doesn't affect
10:59:50 any second reading.
10:59:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Caetano just indicated he
10:59:54 wasn't going --
10:59:55 >>> I wasn't sure which meeting you weren't going to
10:59:57 be at.
10:59:58 I'm sorry.
10:59:58 >> Mr. Caetano, when is the next meeting that you know
11:00:01 you will be here?
11:00:02 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Well, on the 18th.
11:00:05 I notified the chair on September 10th.
11:00:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: First meeting November?
11:00:11 >>> The next meeting I'll be here.
11:00:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You are not going to be on the
11:00:16 24th according to your letter as well.

11:00:22 >>MARY MULHERN: Won't be here on November 1st and
11:00:25 I don't think you will be.
11:00:27 I may not be here.
11:00:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Going to be on a conference.
11:00:31 >>> Ron Weaver for the petitioner.
11:00:33 I believe you may have one or two meetings of the next
11:00:36 three or four that are CRA based but if I recall your
11:00:39 rule you can move a special item to that agenda, as I
11:00:43 understand your rules, if that would be easier for
11:00:45 your schedule.
11:00:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We are going to hold off on
11:00:50 deciding this.
11:00:50 Mr. Shelby, I am going to ask you to find a date when
11:00:53 you think everybody is going to be here over the next
11:00:55 10 or 15 minutes.
11:00:56 And we'll see where that takes us.
11:00:58 Is that all right, Mr. Scott?
11:01:05 Then we'll entertain a motion to have a vote on that.
11:01:11 >>> October 25th.
11:01:12 >> Work with Mr. Shelby on that.
11:01:14 We'll move on to item 36.
11:01:22 >>REBECCA KERT: To provide dealing with transportation

11:01:26 dollars and how they are spent.
11:01:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: For the folks who are here on that
11:01:31 issue we will have a final vote on that over the next
11:01:34 couple weeks.
11:01:34 We just have to find a day when all seven will be
11:01:37 here.
11:01:37 Yes?
11:01:39 Well, stick around then.
11:01:41 >>> I have spoken with the Westshore alliance.
11:01:42 They do realize the ball is in their court.
11:01:45 They are working on getting something to present to
11:01:47 the city for our review.
11:01:49 They have not done that as yet and we would be happy
11:01:51 to report back when we get back and provide our
11:01:54 response to City Council as well as the time frame for
11:01:57 things moving forward.
11:02:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Give us a time frame so we can put
11:02:03 it on our calendar to revisit.
11:02:05 >>> It's all contingent on when the Westshore alliance
11:02:08 provides information and it's just like last month
11:02:10 when you have to come back in a month and we are kind
11:02:12 of at the same point.

11:02:13 >> Carry it over to January, February?
11:02:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I don't think it's going to take
11:02:18 that long.
11:02:18 It's up to Mr. Rotella.
11:02:20 I would rather have legal come back to us as soon as
11:02:24 they hear from Westshore.
11:02:25 >> And we are happy to do that.
11:02:28 >> We'll just deal with it when legal brings it back
11:02:31 and Ms. Kert will do that.
11:02:33 Moving onto item 37.
11:02:40 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
11:02:40 I'm obviously not Greg Hart but we have been talking
11:02:43 very frequently, so I do have the information.
11:02:50 Essentially we are preparing for the workshop for
11:02:51 October 25th.
11:02:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm sorry, David, this is in regard
11:02:55 to the disparity study.
11:02:58 Give a little intro.
11:03:00 >>DAVID SMITH: Basically, what we are doing is
11:03:06 reenacting what we call our affirmative action
11:03:10 ordinance.
11:03:10 It deals with small business enterprises and women and

11:03:13 minority business enterprises.
11:03:16 Part of the requirements in order to have remedies is
11:03:20 you have to have a factual basis for taking certain
11:03:25 actions.
11:03:25 In order to find out whether you have that factual
11:03:28 basis, you engage in what's known as a disparity
11:03:30 study.
11:03:31 So you determine whether there are disparities between
11:03:34 the availability of various groups of contractors and
11:03:42 vendors in comparison to utilization by the city.
11:03:44 So when you have disparities, that is indicative of
11:03:46 the case law talks about -- an inference that perhaps
11:03:57 we have a problem in the community or in the process.
11:03:59 So the disparity study is an important part of that
11:04:02 because it creates the factual predicate.
11:04:04 And what I understood today was primarily an update
11:04:07 for you on where we are with the ordinance, disparity
11:04:12 study being a significant part of that because this is
11:04:14 so evidence-driven.
11:04:16 The cases -- and I will start providing you some
11:04:18 copies of these cases so you will know.
11:04:21 It's very important and a very serious matter.

11:04:24 In the cases are crucial to understanding.
11:04:27 And I know when you get a couple of them, you will
11:04:30 wonder how we expect you to follow through.
11:04:32 But believe me, once you read a couple of them, they
11:04:35 begin to start following a pattern and it makes a lot
11:04:37 of sense but we'll also elaborate.
11:04:39 But the update today is that we have continued to move
11:04:43 on this issue.
11:04:45 And one of the things we are working on is to try to
11:04:49 regionalize some of the things we are doing.
11:04:51 And by that, I mean we have a certification program
11:04:55 for SBE, small business enterprises.
11:04:58 What we have done initially in the draft ordinance was
11:05:01 we have delayed or moved for the time being the WMBE
11:05:05 component, because we believe we need to run the
11:05:08 program for 12 months on an SBE basis.
11:05:11 I think, and we think, in talking with many people
11:05:15 over a period of time, we need to put that back into
11:05:18 the ordinance so that it is there and ready to go when
11:05:20 the data supports pulling the trigger.
11:05:24 So we are going to come back to you in the workshop
11:05:27 with an ordinance that likes to say between our first

11:05:31 and second draft, I think it was between our third and
11:05:34 fifth.
11:05:34 That's how many iterations we have been through this.
11:05:36 But we are going to put that in the ordinance so it's
11:05:38 there.
11:05:39 We use it in order to certify and register people so
11:05:42 we know who is out there, we can use that to
11:05:46 accumulate our data, we can use that to narrowly
11:05:48 tailor our relief, and we'll be ready to go.
11:05:52 So one of the things that is an update and is a change
11:05:54 is we are bringing that back into the ordinance.
11:05:57 I had it in there before. Anyway, it's coming back in
11:06:00 and it should come back in so we are doing that.
11:06:03 We are also trying to work with St. Pete and
11:06:05 Hillsborough County in terms of recognizing each
11:06:07 other's certification processes.
11:06:13 And bodies being what they are, and being sure about
11:06:16 what they are doing, we have some differences.
11:06:18 We need to see if we can reconcile that.
11:06:20 And they are small differences.
11:06:22 For example, we have a provision that you are eligible
11:06:25 if you have been in business six months.

11:06:27 I think Hillsborough County requires 12 months.
11:06:29 I think we are going to go to 12 months.
11:06:31 We have different thresholds in terms of size.
11:06:34 And we'll go through all of this on the workshop with
11:06:36 you, because I want to make sure you understand the
11:06:38 options in the ordinance.
11:06:40 And that you evaluate the different alternatives.
11:06:43 We talk about it.
11:06:44 You have a candid exchange and decide how you want to
11:06:50 tailor it.
11:06:50 So we are working on that issue at the same time.
11:06:56 October 25th, the last I heard, we had some time
11:06:59 changes.
11:07:02 I think it's 9:00 to 10:30.
11:07:05 You shorten it by a half hour, I believe, but it will
11:07:08 go over if it has to, I think is the sentiment.
11:07:10 Anyway, that's pretty much the update for now.
11:07:13 And the other component, I will caution you about is
11:07:16 difficult, because it's been difficult for us, and we
11:07:18 have been working on it for far too long, is
11:07:21 understanding some of the information in the disparity
11:07:25 study itself.

11:07:25 So we will try to help you through that process as
11:07:27 well.
11:07:30 One last thing.
11:07:31 We are setting up meetings with each of you one on one
11:07:33 so we can have a candid exchange sometime next week.
11:07:37 And so we'll start during that process.
11:07:42 Thank you.
11:07:42 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11:07:44 And the reason I was raising concerns, thank you, Mr.
11:07:47 Smith, for this update on this information.
11:07:55 I'm pleased to hear you are putting WMBE back into the
11:07:59 ordinance and that's very encouraging.
11:08:01 Council members, when you read the agenda, you read
11:08:05 the agenda item 37 says Greg Hart, friends of minority
11:08:09 business department, to appear to provide a monthly
11:08:13 update.
11:08:13 Then you go to the agenda item, and you read the
11:08:17 title, it says -- it's going to be a brief
11:08:19 presentation by the consultant, Mason Tillman and
11:08:23 associate regarding the result of the disparity study.
11:08:27 Councilman Scott is proceeding at 11 a.m. to hear said
11:08:30 presentation and reconvene at 1:30 p.m. for further

11:08:33 discussion.
11:08:34 You have two different -- it's very confusing.
11:08:37 Because when I went over information again last night
11:08:39 I said, nobody said to me that Mason Tillman is going
11:08:43 to be here to review the study.
11:08:45 It's real confusing.
11:08:47 What the agenda says and what the background is
11:08:49 saying.
11:08:49 So those kind of things really need to be worked out.
11:08:52 I mean, it is very confusing.
11:08:55 To me.
11:08:55 I'm coming this morning thinking Greg Hart, last
11:08:58 night, Greg Hart on one end is going to make a
11:09:01 presentation, then you read the backup material, again
11:09:03 last night you are thinking Mason Tillman, the
11:09:07 consultant is going to be here and you will be
11:09:08 involved in a workshop today as opposed to the
11:09:10 25th.
11:09:11 So thank you, Mr. Smith, for the update.
11:09:13 Anyway.
11:09:14 But I just wanted to point out to council again the
11:09:17 confusion with our agenda that we got, we have really

11:09:20 got to work on this so we are clear when we are coming
11:09:22 to these meetings.
11:09:26 >>MARY MULHERN: Dave, I was just going to say I'm
11:09:29 happy the direction you are going with your ordinance,
11:09:32 and I am.
11:09:33 So thank you for going in that direction.
11:09:35 Because I think that's where council wanted to go, if
11:09:37 we could.
11:09:38 But Mr. Scott raises the question of, since I have
11:09:43 been on council, this is a motion that was made.
11:09:47 Is it monthly report that we get?
11:09:51 And I think what was originally asked for were
11:09:56 results, statistics, right?
11:09:58 Numbers.
11:09:58 And I don't think we have seen any numbers.
11:10:04 The last two months.
11:10:05 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Or three months.
11:10:07 >>MARY MULHERN: I would just like to support what Mr.
11:10:09 Scott said and ask next month we actually get a
11:10:13 report.
11:10:13 And I know it's hard to do without having the new
11:10:16 ordinance in place.

11:10:17 But whatever information we can get we would like to
11:10:21 see it.
11:10:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'm sure Mr. Hart will pick up on
11:10:26 that as well.
11:10:27 Mr. Scott?
11:10:28 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I don't know why it's hard because you
11:10:29 have an administrative order, right?
11:10:32 An executive order.
11:10:33 And so I raise that question before.
11:10:35 You think back to a month ago.
11:10:37 I want to know what has been done since this went in
11:10:40 place and I'm still not getting the numbers.
11:10:42 That's what I'm saying.
11:10:44 I'm assuming that they are tracking it, should be, and
11:10:47 should they provide some information.
11:10:50 So I think that's the issue here is we are not getting
11:10:52 the information.
11:10:53 We are getting the updates on what Mr. Smith is doing
11:10:57 in terms of ordinance.
11:10:58 That's very good.
11:11:00 Also, I think the information, statistics of the
11:11:03 numbers is what we want to see, too.

11:11:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
11:11:09 Are you gad for today?
11:11:12 Gad for today, and then we'll get more information
11:11:15 during the workshop on the 25th and then clarify.
11:11:18 All right.
11:11:18 Moving on from 37.
11:11:19 38.
11:11:22 This is administration to appear and provide
11:11:24 statistical crime report and the amount of personal
11:11:27 coverage provided in the Ybor City area for parking
11:11:29 lots including surface parking, high-rise parking and
11:11:33 on-street parking, motion by Saul-Sena and Miranda.
11:11:39 Mr. Corbett here to report.
11:11:41 >>> Bob Gadara, district 3 commander, I oversee
11:11:47 policing in the Ybor area.
11:11:48 Council asked for a crime perspective as well as a
11:11:51 security perspective in these parking lots of Ybor
11:11:53 City.
11:11:54 I think several weeks ago, I submitted for your review
11:11:58 a two-page report that dealt with those dynamics.
11:12:03 One of the problems, I really wasn't happy with that
11:12:06 report, and I apologize, but this morning I did submit

11:12:10 at the last moment, due to the fact I only got it last
11:12:13 night, was more thorough statistical profile.
11:12:17 Yes, ma'am.
11:12:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Do you have a copy for us?
11:12:22 >>> I did it provide it to staff, was assured you all
11:12:25 would have it.
11:12:27 >> I got it.
11:12:30 >> And if I could, way would like to do is basically
11:12:33 direct your attention to that report, because I think
11:12:35 it really narrows the focus to what you asked for.
11:12:39 And that is crime in the parking lot areas.
11:12:44 If you will look at that report, basically, it will
11:12:49 give you an overall view of what type of crime is
11:12:53 occurring in the parking lots.
11:12:57 I had great concern, the first category is robbery.
11:12:59 There's been eleven robberies in the parking lots in
11:13:02 Ybor City this year.
11:13:05 That is in relation to a total of 22 robberies in Ybor
11:13:08 City.
11:13:10 Eleven of those occurred in the parking lots.
11:13:13 I'm also happy to report -- that's the bad news.
11:13:16 Good news is, those 22 robberies, we did arrest at the

11:13:20 time of the robberies 18 individuals.
11:13:23 We proceeded as far as St. Pete and Plant City.
11:13:27 So we were somewhat effective in our operational
11:13:31 posture in how we deployed our not only uniformed
11:13:35 officers but our undercover officers as well.
11:13:40 If you will see the assaults in the parking lots, now
11:13:43 we have to remember these are reported crimes.
11:13:45 These are crimes that come to the attention of.
11:13:47 Many times in parking lots you have fights, people get
11:13:50 in their cars, they disburse, and there are no police
11:13:54 reports that show that particular level of activity.
11:13:58 So I would venture to say that it's much higher than
11:14:01 what is reported.
11:14:03 Aggravate assaults were even -- I think one area
11:14:07 noteworthy is vehicle theft.
11:14:10 The vehicle thefts went from 23 last year to six this
11:14:14 year with a substantial reduction of over 70% there.
11:14:18 Those are your part 1 offenses, your most serious
11:14:21 offenses that really, I think, we need to focus on.
11:14:25 When it comes to the part 2 offenses we have also had
11:14:27 a reduction, and those are offenses dealing with
11:14:31 simple assault, alcohol violations, as well as

11:14:35 narcotic violations.
11:14:37 And in 2006 there were 295 such incidents that came to
11:14:41 the attention of the police.
11:14:43 This year, 205 incidents.
11:14:46 That's a reduction of 30%.
11:14:50 Yes, ma'am?
11:14:56 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Do you ever give people -- I don't
11:14:58 know, do you ever fine people for violating the noise
11:15:03 ordinance in parking lots?
11:15:04 I have heard a lot of complaints from people who live
11:15:05 in Ybor City that when the bars close at three the
11:15:08 people get in their cars and make a real commotion
11:15:11 with their radios and wake up the neighbors.
11:15:14 And I wondered, I didn't see any noise violations.
11:15:17 >>> Well, the noise violations, what most people
11:15:23 regard as noise violations are those violation was the
11:15:25 clubs and that type of music.
11:15:27 >> Right, I upper.
11:15:28 >>> However, disorderly conduct, vehicles that are
11:15:31 playing loud music, et cetera, I do have -- I could
11:15:36 get statistical data on that type of citation, that
11:15:39 type of intervention, because usually the congregation

11:15:42 of people doesn't come under noise, but it comes under
11:15:45 disorderly conduct and those type of disturbances.
11:15:48 >> So that's not requested?
11:15:50 >>> No, that's not requested here.
11:15:55 So overall in the first report, the problem was, and
11:15:58 not being able to get the information specific enough,
11:16:01 there are 37 parking lots in Ybor City.
11:16:08 And of those three are public, belong to the city, and
11:16:14 they have 71 addresses.
11:16:15 So it was difficult at first to capture all this data.
11:16:18 But we were able to do so through our technology
11:16:22 people.
11:16:26 Overall, I this that I shows you the scope of problem.
11:16:29 Of course, how do we deal with that problem?
11:16:31 We deploy uniformed officers.
11:16:33 As you know, we have a considerable staffing
11:16:35 commitment on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday nights,
11:16:37 which is basically more of the problem.
11:16:43 We do have a patrol that is designated to the -- to
11:16:48 patrol the parking lots, strictly the parking lots in
11:16:51 Ybor City during these particular times; as well as an
11:16:58 undercover unit that deploys throughout the peripheral

11:17:02 edges of Ybor, to combat some of this type of crime,
11:17:06 to B and E autos, the robberies that occur, the fights
11:17:09 that do occur in the parking lot.
11:17:11 So those are all problems in the parking lots.
11:17:13 We think we do have a positive trend here.
11:17:18 There seems to be -- they seem to be diminishing, and
11:17:21 I think with a continued vigilance and approach as we
11:17:26 have had in the past that we should continue to
11:17:28 improve upon that situation.
11:17:30 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, major.
11:17:35 Reverend Scott.
11:17:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I think we do see a decline based on
11:17:39 2006 and 2007, 295 institutes, 295 in the second
11:17:49 category.
11:17:50 And then in the first category, 73 decrease.
11:17:53 So that's good news.
11:17:57 Secondly, I guess you covered this but most of these
11:18:00 incidents are happening on Thursday, Friday and
11:18:02 Saturday night.
11:18:02 Is that accurate?
11:18:03 >>> That's correct.
11:18:04 >> Thirdly, did you identify the age category or age

11:18:10 group on these Thursdays? Have you load at that?
11:18:15 What age range when we talk about these offenses?
11:18:20 >>> I do want to mention the fact that when it comes
11:18:24 to some of the disorderly conduct in the parking lot
11:18:27 involved underage drinking.
11:18:29 We have made, I think, 154 underage drinking arrests,
11:18:35 in Ybor City involving underage drinking.
11:18:38 And 69 of those were actually in the parking lots.
11:18:44 But Ybor City is a very -- has a very diverse
11:18:49 patronage.
11:18:50 And so we had young people, we had the whole spectrum.
11:18:54 But there is a heavy concentration of young people on
11:18:57 Thursday, particularly, as well as Friday and Saturday
11:19:01 night, and the later it gets, people my age basically
11:19:05 go home and go to bed, but as we often remember the
11:19:09 young people stay up and have a good time.
11:19:11 So it's a heavier concentration of young people later
11:19:15 in the morning hours.
11:19:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you for singling me out,
11:19:23 major, as a young guy.
11:19:24 Major, thank you and your department for the job you
11:19:28 are doing for all of the citizens of the City of

11:19:30 Tampa.
11:19:32 What comes to mind is when you singled out Thursday,
11:19:36 Friday and Saturday.
11:19:36 Is that true in the whole city or just in Ybor City?
11:19:44 In other words, does it come alive?
11:19:46 >>> I don't have the data to actually make a
11:19:48 definitive response to that.
11:19:50 But I would think, yes, do you have an increase on
11:19:53 Thursday, Friday and Saturday night, particularly
11:19:55 Friday and Saturday night, such as Soho district,
11:19:59 et cetera.
11:19:59 But I'm not familiar with those numbers.
11:20:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And the next thing I'm almost
11:20:04 certain of, about the statistics won't be available at
11:20:07 this time, either, but maybe sometime in the future
11:20:10 I'm sure the police department does quantitate the
11:20:14 studies what happens in the Soho and Channelside and
11:20:16 Ybor City, and to see if there's a pattern developing
11:20:18 only in one area, or does it develop in shopping
11:20:21 centers?
11:20:22 How many are rushed to the same light, would be
11:20:28 available to make a study of the quadrant of the city,

11:20:31 if that were to hold true or not true, is Ybor City
11:20:35 the main focus problem?
11:20:36 Maybe it is, maybe it's not.
11:20:37 But sometime in the future if you have time, and I
11:20:39 know you are very busy, to make a comparative study,
11:20:42 and look at the city as to the entertainment areas
11:20:46 throughout the city, to see if this holds true, and I
11:20:50 would appreciate. That you don't have to come to
11:20:52 council.
11:20:52 You can make it, in my opinion, if you can do it
11:20:55 sometime in the next section months and send it to us
11:20:57 individually, I think that would be enough.
11:21:00 >>> I would be more than happy to go forward with
11:21:03 that.
11:21:06 >> Mr. Caetano?
11:21:07 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I would like to ask Mr. Territo,
11:21:10 please.
11:21:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Why don't you do that --
11:21:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I would like to make that in the
11:21:15 form of a motion to make a comparative study within
11:21:17 the next six months of all the areas of the city to
11:21:20 compare, identify where our problems were in the same

11:21:23 categories that were put in today into the record.
11:21:26 >> And then come back with a written report on a
11:21:29 regular agenda six months from now.
11:21:32 You don't have to be here in person unless a council
11:21:35 member requests.
11:21:38 >>> My only question would be, would that be Soho and
11:21:41 Ybor?
11:21:42 What are you considering?
11:21:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You determine that as -- would you
11:21:46 know that more than I would, as far as the hot spots
11:21:50 in the city, to see where we are at and see where we
11:21:53 have to improve it.
11:21:58 (cell phone rings)
11:22:00 Hello?
11:22:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We have a motion and second on Mr.
11:22:11 Miranda's motion for a further report from TPD.
11:22:16 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
11:22:18 Any opposed?
11:22:19 Motion passes.
11:22:20 Thank you, major.
11:22:21 Thank you, Mr. Corbett.
11:22:27 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: These people who have licenses to

11:22:29 stay open till 3:00, is that something that can be
11:22:33 changed?
11:22:36 >>SAL TERRITO: If you have a license
11:22:40 >> If you have an A license to sell alcohol till 3:00
11:22:45 can that be changed, if they have gotten their times
11:22:47 from their wet zonings, I don't think you can change
11:22:52 those.
11:22:54 >>> I don't think you can change those arbitrarily.
11:22:56 >> Because this is going to go on forever.
11:22:58 I personally don't think Ybor City is going to get any
11:23:00 better.
11:23:02 It's costing us a tremendous amount of money for
11:23:05 police down there.
11:23:06 And I don't think it will ever get better.
11:23:11 I just know recently as Westshore, we turned down a
11:23:15 project because they wanted to be open till 2:00 in
11:23:18 the morning because people are calling in.
11:23:19 It's going to be another bar and there's going to be
11:23:22 drunks around.
11:23:23 I think we better be more vigilant when we give out
11:23:27 these permits.
11:23:30 I supported the permit for Westshore.

11:23:34 But if this is the case we can't be spending all our
11:23:37 money on police down in Ybor City.
11:23:44 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Did you get your question answered?
11:23:46 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Not really, but.
11:23:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Okay.
11:23:50 Mr. Shelby, in regard to item 35, Mr. Shelby has
11:23:55 identified two dates for us, a date for the next vote
11:24:03 when we hope to have all seven council members
11:24:05 present, October 25th at 8:45.
11:24:07 I'll accept a motion to move to waive the rules for
11:24:11 October 25 for that date.
11:24:13 >> So moved.
11:24:14 >> Second.
11:24:14 (Motion carried).
11:24:17 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And then there's a suggestion,
11:24:20 although I don't know that we need to act on it today,
11:24:22 Mr. Shelby, for November 8th for second reading at
11:24:25 6 p.m.
11:24:25 Do we need a motion on that?
11:24:27 Or are we kind of premature?
11:24:29 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, what's going to have to
11:24:31 happen oh is on October 18th the PD rezoning will

11:24:34 have to come back and be rescheduled.
11:24:37 If you wish to put the petitioner on notice now, and
11:24:39 at least we'll be able to have that notated, if that
11:24:43 date is acceptable to council, it would be able to
11:24:46 accelerate them by a week rather than having to wait
11:24:49 till the 15th if that's acceptable to council.
11:24:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Should we do it today?
11:24:53 >>> My suggestion is if you do it today then at least
11:24:56 throws a road map for how we will be able to proceed.
11:24:59 >> So the motion, the intent of council will be to set
11:25:03 schedule second reading if second reading is not for
11:25:05 both the vacating and item -- the vacating which is
11:25:08 item 35 and the rezoning, which is still pending, and
11:25:12 which I have to come back on the date that it's
11:25:13 already scheduled.
11:25:14 To be for November 8th at 6 p.m.
11:25:17 Mr. Territo.
11:25:19 >>SAL TERRITO: Legal department.
11:25:20 You can't really reschedule something not on your
11:25:23 agenda yet.
11:25:23 >>MARTIN SHELBY: No, that's true.
11:25:26 >> But you can get the feel of the board.

11:25:28 >>> Exactly.
11:25:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The motion we would entertain gist
11:25:34 for the intent would be to schedule those, if it's
11:25:38 necessary for second reading, to schedule those at
11:25:40 that time, November 8th at 6 p.m.
11:25:42 Any motion along those lines?
11:25:44 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move for that, as a backup plan.
11:25:48 >> Second.
11:25:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Motion and second.
11:25:53 (Motion carried).
11:25:53 >>MARTIN SHELBY: So the next action on this item will
11:25:55 be October 25th, at 8:45 a.m.
11:25:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: a.m., correct.
11:26:00 And we need to come a little early on that date for
11:26:02 that vote.
11:26:06 Okay.
11:26:06 Item 39.
11:26:09 There is a memorandum from Mr. Daignault in regard to
11:26:14 Annie street and public works.
11:26:16 If council is comfortable with reading and filing that
11:26:18 we can move forward.
11:26:23 I'm sorry, request to continue till October 18th.

11:26:30 We are done with that.
11:26:31 Item 40.
11:26:32 Transportation division to appear and provide a report
11:26:35 regarding traffic problems on River Hills Drive.
11:26:45 >>> Tony Rodriguez, public works.
11:26:48 And we have submitted a written report on this.
11:26:51 But the details, the Temple Crest civic association
11:26:54 has always had some traffic concerns along River Hills
11:26:57 Drive between 40th and 50th street.
11:27:00 So we commissioned a study to go out there and look at
11:27:06 the various traffic factors, along River Hills Drive.
11:27:11 River hills is a collector road, and it is currently
11:27:16 doing about 3500 vehicles per day.
11:27:21 It is classified as a collector road in our
11:27:24 comprehensive transportation plans.
11:27:27 The speed study revealed that the 85th percentile
11:27:33 speed along river hills is 38 miles per hour.
11:27:37 The speed limit is posted for 3530th miles per
11:27:40 hour.
11:27:40 Generally it's not considered a documented speed
11:27:42 problem unless you are ten miles per hour above the
11:27:46 posted speed on the 85th percentile.

11:27:50 So the speeds are well within the parameters.
11:27:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Whose standard is that?
11:28:00 Is that the city standard, a national standard?
11:28:03 >>> It's just a general engineering practice.
11:28:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think that was my precise
11:28:12 question.
11:28:12 If you're ten miles over a 30 mile-per-hour speed
11:28:14 limit, you are going --
11:28:20 >>> 85% of your traffic will be going 40 Minneapolis
11:28:22 or more.
11:28:23 We do not have that case here.
11:28:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm saying that if you go 5 miles
11:28:31 over the speed limit that that should -- I just
11:28:36 question, we are talking about a residential area,
11:28:40 River Hills Drive is entirely residential, it's not
11:28:42 commercial, the residents in the neighborhood are very
11:28:45 concerned about the safety and N their neighborhood,
11:28:49 and I think that there are valid concerns there, and I
11:28:54 question your assumption that 8 a percent of the
11:28:59 people going 38 miles per hour is okay.
11:29:02 I just question that presumption, whether that's
11:29:04 really an appropriate tipping point for danger or not

11:29:09 danger.
11:29:10 And I don't think anybody has ever questioned it.
11:29:12 I have been on council a number of years and that has
11:29:16 always been the assumption.
11:29:17 But frankly, we -- do other communities, can't we as a
11:29:24 community set a different point of safety and comfort
11:29:30 for our neighborhoods?
11:29:34 >>> I'm sure that's something that we can look at and
11:29:38 discuss.
11:29:39 Our engineers generally go on good, sound engineering
11:29:46 practices, and this has been the practice that's been
11:29:48 in place, as you said for years now.
11:29:51 This has been our standard.
11:29:52 >> Our society changes our tolerance for, you know,
11:29:59 cigarettes used to be an acceptable thing and now as a
11:30:01 society we have said, no, it not healthy.
11:30:03 We can say for our neighborhoods being 10 miles over
11:30:07 the standard speed limit within neighborhoods, within
11:30:11 residential areas, is no longer acceptable based on
11:30:14 our high number of pedestrian fatalities, as a
11:30:18 community.
11:30:18 We have outstandingly bad numbers in terms of

11:30:23 pedestrian fatalities.
11:30:24 And what I'm saying is, I think that we should
11:30:26 consider rethinking what tolerable limits are for
11:30:30 speeding within residential areas.
11:30:34 How do other council members feel?
11:30:36 Don't you hear this from your constituents?
11:30:39 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, that's way was going to ask and
11:30:42 thank you for this really thorough report.
11:30:43 This is what we like.
11:30:45 Thank you.
11:30:49 Is there a reason why we couldn't just lower the speed
11:30:52 limit?
11:30:54 >>> Well, the 85th percentile shows what speed,
11:30:58 irrespective of the --
11:31:02 >> Something that's going to happen?
11:31:03 >>> Given the traffic geometry out there, that's the
11:31:06 speed that people are comfortable driving at.
11:31:09 To lower the speed limit while you would most likely
11:31:13 follow that up with an increase in enforcement action,
11:31:18 won't necessarily bring down the speed limit.
11:31:19 Also combined with the fact that it is a classified
11:31:22 collector roadway, and generally those are posted at

11:31:27 30 miles per hour and above.
11:31:29 And that's something we need to keep in mind about
11:31:32 river hills.
11:31:34 To the north, your east-west connector is Busch
11:31:37 Boulevard.
11:31:38 To the south, to get from 56th street all the way
11:31:41 over to 40th Street, the next through is Hannah
11:31:46 Avenue.
11:31:47 So river hills is kind of midpoint between those.
11:31:49 So --
11:31:52 >> Is there anything else we can do to change that
11:31:55 behavior, the speeding?
11:31:57 I mean, to make it less --
11:32:00 >>> and we have an active dialogue going on with
11:32:03 Temple Crest.
11:32:04 I was with the Temple Crest association meeting with
11:32:08 Mrs. Saul-Sena last month, and we are consistently
11:32:14 working for operational improvements and safety
11:32:16 improvements along this corridor, as well as the other
11:32:19 corridors in -- along in the Temple Crest area.
11:32:23 And we certainly have a lot of activity going on, on
11:32:27 the 40th street corridor, which is just to the west of

11:32:30 this location.
11:32:33 >> There might be lights at 40th and 50th.
11:32:39 Is there a light at 46th?
11:32:41 >> No.
11:32:42 46th is a collector which terminates at river
11:32:45 hills so you have a collector, which is coming into
11:32:49 the area as well.
11:32:50 There's a light at 56th street and the existing
11:32:52 condition is a stop sign on 40th Street.
11:32:57 >>MARY MULHERN: Are there any intersections where we
11:32:59 might be able to put in stop signs that might slow it?
11:33:05 >>> And these are all things we can work with the
11:33:08 neighborhood on to look at these areas.
11:33:09 The other thing is just maintain a good enforcement
11:33:13 stance out in that area.
11:33:15 We are also looking at the truck traffic situation
11:33:17 down there, being primarily residential areas, that
11:33:21 really should not be that much truck traffic.
11:33:24 We are currently studying that, if truck traffic is
11:33:27 deemed to be a concern, we will post a T no-truck
11:33:31 signs and work an enforcement effort with TPD on
11:33:34 trucks.

11:33:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Caetano.
11:33:38 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I didn't get a copy of your
11:33:39 report.
11:33:40 In your report, are you demonstrating how many
11:33:42 accidents there were there?
11:33:44 And how many violations were issued, summonses?
11:33:49 >>> No.
11:33:49 In our report we did not show how many citations were
11:33:55 written in the area.
11:33:57 And while we did not address accidents in our reports,
11:34:05 there did not seem ton to be a significant accident
11:34:08 problem, significant statistically, along this
11:34:10 corridor.
11:34:11 >> You are emphasizing for the public safety.
11:34:16 If there were a lot of accidents, then you have a
11:34:18 problem.
11:34:19 So there are not a lot of accidents as far as you
11:34:21 know?
11:34:21 >>> Correct.
11:34:23 And I know of one in particular, car versus
11:34:28 pedestrian, Mr. Neal, who comes before council quite a
11:34:32 bit, I know he had an incident not too long ago.

11:34:36 But once again we are working with the homeowners --
11:34:41 the civic association to come up with some good
11:34:45 neighborhood ideas to remedy these situations.
11:34:51 >> Mrs. Saul-Sena, do you want to wrap up?
11:34:55 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you. This was a very good
11:34:56 map.
11:34:57 And when you look at it, the difference between these
11:34:59 collectors is that some of them like Busch, 40th
11:35:01 Street, 50th, Sligh, are obviously commercial
11:35:05 corridors.
11:35:07 Others like I ever river hills is a residential
11:35:10 corridor.
11:35:11 What I would like to you think is a corridor that goes
11:35:14 through a residential neighborhood with absolutely no
11:35:16 commercial along it.
11:35:17 What I would like to you do is think about whether,
11:35:19 when we have a situation like this, which is a heavily
11:35:22 traveled road that's completely residential, that we
11:35:26 develop some additional standards or scrutinies or
11:35:30 ways to look at slowing the traffic, because of the
11:35:33 residential neighborhood around us and the
11:35:36 vulnerability of the people in the neighborhood.

11:35:39 That's a new way to think about it.
11:35:42 >>> Certainly.
11:35:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: But one of the things to keep in mind,
11:35:46 and I don't know whether the study revealed this or
11:35:48 not, most of the time people traveling these routes
11:35:52 are the people who live within the neighborhood
11:35:53 themselves.
11:35:54 So keep that in mind.
11:35:57 I see over and over again people come out and are
11:36:01 violating are people who live there.
11:36:03 That's been my experience.
11:36:04 Okay.
11:36:05 Just point it out.
11:36:06 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Unfortunately, I think that's true,
11:36:09 in most neighborhoods.
11:36:11 Thank you, Tony.
11:36:12 I appreciate the report.
11:36:13 And Mrs. Saul-Sena, I think you brought up a question
11:36:17 that might preserve the motion if you wish to follow
11:36:20 up on this issue, generically about the 85th
11:36:23 percentile.
11:36:24 Do you want to hear back from staff and see if we have

11:36:26 any discretion on a local level that we could modify
11:36:30 our standards?
11:36:36 >> Thank you, yes.
11:36:37 I would like to give them lots of time like 90 days,
11:36:40 to come back with a look at what you just said.
11:36:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: How about second reading in
11:36:45 January?
11:36:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Excellent.
11:36:48 That's my motion.
11:36:48 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Motion and second.
11:36:51 It's self-explanatory.
11:36:53 I think the staff understand it is issue to address
11:36:55 the possibility of modifying the standards locally.
11:36:58 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
11:37:03 Any opposed?
11:37:04 Motion passes.
11:37:06 Items 41 and 42, 43 we already dealt with.
11:37:10 We are onto 44.
11:37:11 Mark Huey to appear and provide a report providing the
11:37:16 city's plan for encouraging additional interest in the
11:37:19 federal courthouse building.
11:37:21 >>SAL TERRITO: Mr. Huey had to leave.

11:37:25 He had another appointment toad go to.
11:37:27 I'm not sure I can give you any information but I am
11:37:30 told there's still ongoing negotiations for that
11:37:33 building and they have had discussions with other
11:37:35 interested parties which they haven't told me who the
11:37:39 interested parties are and don't want to say at this
11:37:41 time, but I know there are ongoing negotiations.
11:37:44 >> JOHN DINGFELDER: Continue this for a month?
11:37:45 >> LINDA SAUL-SENA: Mr. Huey promised me, promised
11:37:48 me, by December something would be done.
11:37:50 So with his assurance, I would like to have this come
11:37:53 back, let's say the first week in December, with a
11:37:56 report on exactly what the status is, and if he
11:37:58 doesn't have something very specific that we do a very
11:38:01 public RFP.
11:38:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: There's a motion and a second to
11:38:06 continue this to the first meeting in December.
11:38:08 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
11:38:10 Opposed?
11:38:12 All right.
11:38:12 Item 45.
11:38:13 Administration to provide a report regarding jet fuel

11:38:16 pipeline being proposed actually from Hookers Point to
11:38:21 the airport.
11:38:22 And Mr. Daignault is here, and we appreciate it.
11:38:25 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Administrator public works and
11:38:27 utility services.
11:38:28 We provided a memorandum to council.
11:38:33 However, just a couple of items.
11:38:35 The city staff's responsibility involved the
11:38:39 right-of-way and the franchise agreement.
11:38:41 We are negotiating a franchise agreement with Kinder
11:38:51 Morgan, then it would be our responsibility to bring
11:38:52 it to council for approval.
11:38:54 Additionally, part of this request was that Kinder
11:38:58 Morgan contact or that we report what local officials
11:39:04 they have been in touch with, and we provided that
11:39:06 information, they provided it to us, we provided it to
11:39:09 you.
11:39:10 Representatives from Kinder Morgan, I think Mr.
11:39:12 Williams is here, if you would like to hear from them
11:39:14 regarding the pipeline.
11:39:19 >> What's the pleasure of council?
11:39:21 >> Thank you.

11:39:23 I met with them yesterday and they answered my
11:39:26 questions at the time.
11:39:26 However this morning Mr. Robinson brought up some
11:39:28 questions that frankly hadn't occurred to me which is
11:39:31 why public hearings are worthwhile.
11:39:33 And I wondered if the representative from Kinder
11:39:35 Morgan could address some of the issues that were
11:39:38 raised this mornings by Mr. Robinson, specifically,
11:39:42 the fact that the explosions, and if you could come up
11:39:54 and address the issues he raised earlier today.
11:40:00 >>> Jack Williams of Kinder Morgan.
11:40:03 And to the questions as far as, I November it but I do
11:40:09 not know the details.
11:40:10 So I can get back to council on that, the people that
11:40:14 would have the information on that.
11:40:18 Another question?
11:40:21 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Did you hear Mr. Robinson this
11:40:23 morning on the issue you?
11:40:25 >>> Yes.
11:40:25 >> Some of the issues he raised were safety.
11:40:27 Safety concerns.
11:40:28 Talked about pipe safety.

11:40:30 Degradation of the pipes over X number of years.
11:40:32 >>> Want to mention the stress corrosion, crack.
11:40:37 Again, I know where it has occurred on the system.
11:40:41 I don't know the specifics of that instance.
11:40:43 I do know it is depending on the type of coating that
11:40:47 is on the pipe, the type of soil that's around the
11:40:49 pipe, the thickness of the steel that's involved, and
11:40:54 the age of the pipe.
11:40:55 And those are all -- our company is spending an
11:40:58 extensive amount of money on the subject of stress
11:41:01 corrosion, crack, to prevent recurrence and prevent it
11:41:05 from recurring in the future.
11:41:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I was going to say in Mr. Robinson
11:41:14 he's e-mail he handed us a whole lot of information
11:41:17 regarding Kinder Morgan where there was 5.3, have A
11:41:25 violation by them, happened May 21, 2007,
11:41:35 There is the issue of paying 15 million, pipeline
11:41:45 explosion in walnut creek.
11:41:48 That just happened, evidently, the article appeared to
11:41:53 be September 22nd.
11:41:54 So that's a lot of information out here that perhaps
11:41:59 staff needs to take a look at, and bring council up to

11:42:03 date on these issues.
11:42:05 I think it's very important we start talking about
11:42:08 spills and that sort of thing, and these pipelines he
11:42:11 pointed out this morning, going through a lot of these
11:42:13 neighborhoods, and I think that's very important.
11:42:19 Especially when you start talking about people dying
11:42:22 from this stuff.
11:42:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Miranda, then Ms. Mulhern.
11:42:26 >> I appreciate everything everyone said up to this
11:42:30 point.
11:42:30 It's incumbent upon me anyway to review the facts, and
11:42:34 the facts are that there might be some discrepancies,
11:42:39 or incidents that have happened through the life span
11:42:44 of the individuals, companies that are before us.
11:42:47 How far, the view that I take is, what if, and how
11:42:51 many incidents have occurred of moving fuel by trucks
11:42:58 in this country?
11:43:00 Do we have any information on how many people have
11:43:02 been killed by an explosion of a truck, A, at the
11:43:07 fueling, at the refueling, at the disconnect point, on
11:43:09 the highway?
11:43:10 How many people -- I guarantee you that every day in

11:43:13 this country there is a truck full of fuel that has an
11:43:17 incident, from what I've seen right here just last
11:43:20 week, there was an incident that fortunately no one
11:43:23 got killed on the expressway, I-4, where a truck
11:43:28 jackknifed, for whatever purpose or whatever reason,
11:43:30 rightly or falsely, the driver made some maneuvers, I
11:43:33 guess, and the truck flipped over, and from I
11:43:37 understand, we were very lucky that there was no
11:43:40 spillage on that roadway, at a time when I-4 is always
11:43:44 packed no matter what time of the day, morning or
11:43:46 evening, you have an enormous amount of traffic and a
11:43:49 big backup.
11:43:50 So all that's got to be considered, when pipelines are
11:43:55 laid through the city, they usually go through
11:43:57 neighborhoods.
11:43:58 We have had a pipeline in this city for over 36 years.
11:44:01 I don't recall one incident.
11:44:04 There might be some but I don't recall any.
11:44:08 And these things are looked at for the futuristic view
11:44:13 of the city.
11:44:14 What happens if that pipeline was to shut down for
11:44:18 whatever reason?

11:44:18 What do we do then?
11:44:20 How many trucks are going to hit the city streets,
11:44:22 through the neighborhoods?
11:44:23 Going to be a lot, from what information I gather.
11:44:26 There's about 19,000 trucks we need to replace this
11:44:30 pipeline or the other pipeline possibly in a year.
11:44:33 That's over 300 a day.
11:44:35 Taking fuel to the airplanes.
11:44:37 And without the airplanes moving you have a disaster,
11:44:40 economic disaster not only here in this city but in
11:44:43 this country.
11:44:43 And I'm not saying for or against.
11:44:46 I think all safety precautions have to be taken in
11:44:48 this pipeline or any other pipeline no matter what it
11:44:51 transmits, water, sewer, or jet fuel, are done in the
11:44:55 public interest, in the best available materials, no
11:44:59 matter what the cost is, at the highest protection of
11:45:02 all the citizens of this great city, so that we may
11:45:05 have prosperity at the end.
11:45:07 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11:45:08 >>MARY MULHERN: I want to thank you for meeting with
11:45:15 all the neighborhoods, and, in fact, we have gotten a

11:45:19 lot of feedback already from your meeting you had last
11:45:21 night with the neighborhood, and the neighborhood and
11:45:25 the neighborhood leaders are providing us with a lot
11:45:27 of information as councilman Scott said we need to
11:45:33 absorb which we'll be doing.
11:45:35 We are not voting on anything today.
11:45:41 I wanted to say to Mr. Miranda that of course a jet
11:45:44 fuel pipeline are safer than trucks but I don't think
11:45:48 that is the question we are faced with at all.
11:45:50 And the question is, does the city need another jet
11:45:55 fuel pipeline?
11:45:56 Do we benefit from it?
11:45:57 And I think you were quite frank with me when we met
11:46:02 yesterday that the only advantage gained from this
11:46:05 would be to the airline, and the airport, to have more
11:46:09 competition in purchasing fuel.
11:46:12 So we could have lower fuel prices, which could be
11:46:15 good for the city.
11:46:16 We might have more business at Tampa International
11:46:18 Airport, which is a great thing.
11:46:21 However, even if that were our only consideration of
11:46:29 having lower fuel prices I'm not convinced that we

11:46:33 need to put in a new pipeline just to do that.
11:46:35 We have an existing pipeline.
11:46:37 It has the capacity we need as far as we know right
11:46:39 now and in the immediate future.
11:46:41 The question is, we could probably get more
11:46:49 competition at the storage point.
11:46:52 That's a question we should look into.
11:46:54 Could we have more competition there so that we could
11:46:58 get lower prices?
11:46:59 But, I mean, that's just to help economically.
11:47:03 And I don't think even if we find that out that's not
11:47:08 going to weigh against the fact that we have to go
11:47:10 into those neighborhoods, we have to disrupt them, we
11:47:14 have to have them accept that risk no matter how high
11:47:18 it is.
11:47:20 Mr. Robinson indicated it could be pretty bad.
11:47:22 Or even if there's very little risk, we are bringing
11:47:25 on that risk, and I just don't see that we have that
11:47:30 great a benefit from it.
11:47:32 And I understand the kind of fees that we would be
11:47:36 getting per year would be around 22, 24,000 or
11:47:41 something like that.

11:47:42 I don't think that's a great benefit to the city
11:47:44 either to accept that kind of risk that we are going
11:47:47 to be looking at.
11:47:48 And I have a couple questions.
11:47:52 I don't know if it's for David Smith or for Steve
11:47:56 Daignault.
11:48:03 From the memo we got from Darrell Smith it said after
11:48:06 you negotiate a franchise agreement then we would be
11:48:09 voting on the franchise agreement.
11:48:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: A typical yes or no, up or down
11:48:17 vote.
11:48:18 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
11:48:20 Yes, ma'am, that's what the charter contemplates.
11:48:22 >>MARY MULHERN: Then my other question, the city
11:48:26 right-of-way, is that our only opportunity for council
11:48:28 to weigh in on whether we want to give right-of-way?
11:48:34 Don't we normally vote on that?
11:48:37 >>DAVID SMITH: You will have to approve a franchise
11:48:39 agreement.
11:48:40 So you will vote on a franchise agreement.
11:48:42 Charter contemplates the franchises like other charter
11:48:45 contracts are negotiate by the administration, must be

11:48:47 submitted to council for its vote and approval.
11:48:50 >> So those are our only opportunities -- that is how
11:48:54 we vote on whether they should have the right-of-way?
11:48:57 >>> That's how you vote on whether you want to grant
11:49:00 them the right to use your right-of-way, yes, ma'am.
11:49:01 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay, thank you.
11:49:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I want to follow up, and I think
11:49:11 councilman Mulhern hit it perfectly, and that is we
11:49:16 have an obligation to make sure whatever goes in, one,
11:49:19 it is of the utmost quality that is protecting our
11:49:22 neighborhood and our citizens.
11:49:24 That's the issue for me.
11:49:25 I will tell you that most truck spills happens on the
11:49:30 highway.
11:49:30 They don't happen down in neighborhoods and
11:49:32 communities, okay?
11:49:33 So I want to be clear on that.
11:49:34 I'm not saying I'm against this or for it.
11:49:37 But I am saying that you have got to make sure that
11:49:39 whatever is going in, that it protects the community,
11:49:43 protects the neighborhood, and that you limit exposure
11:49:49 of the risks, okay?

11:49:53 To make sure that it is there, that you have done
11:49:55 everything within your power to protect, tough best
11:49:59 quality material that's going in to protect, and also
11:50:02 public meetings, which the meetings you are having
11:50:07 with some of the neighborhood.
11:50:08 I don't know if you have had any in West Tampa or not
11:50:11 but I would suggest that you need to do that, in that
11:50:13 this is going through that particular neighborhood.
11:50:16 The other issue is, for the attorney, and that is
11:50:19 since this is a franchise and they are going to spend
11:50:22 millions of dollars to have it cop form to the
11:50:25 administration, Executive Director in terms of WMBE?
11:50:34 >>DAVID SMITH: That's a good question.
11:50:35 Using public rights-of-way.
11:50:37 I would like to consult with Justin Vaske who really
11:50:39 advises my department on many of those issues, if I
11:50:42 understand the question.
11:50:43 >> So you will come back at some point with the answer
11:50:48 to than question.
11:50:48 >>> Yes, sir.
11:50:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Mr. Chairman, I ask a question here
11:50:53 because I'm not completely clear on one matter.

11:50:56 There's been a lot of technology in the few years
11:51:00 passed that before used to have every brick and mortar
11:51:04 to dig down and now you tunnel under a lot of things.
11:51:06 And I don't know if this is a technology that will be
11:51:09 available in this case.
11:51:10 I know we did that in the reclaimed, what we did from
11:51:14 brooker point under the bay and met up met up with
11:51:19 Davis Island.
11:51:19 I don't know how they did that.
11:51:24 It's something that's technique.
11:51:25 I see Verizon everywhere.
11:51:29 Digging under their right-of-ways between the street
11:51:32 and the city.
11:51:32 And if we have a driveway, they don't crack it, they
11:51:35 go under it.
11:51:36 So that's why when you have a problem you can't get a
11:51:38 reception on your TV.
11:51:42 >> I would be glad to address that.
11:51:44 That's called horizontal digging.
11:51:47 They did it virtually but then figured out they could
11:51:51 do it horizontally.
11:51:52 We are looking at that very closely in Tampa.

11:51:54 When you get into urban settings where you have
11:51:57 streets you would have to repair otherwise, where you
11:51:59 have utilities in the roughly 3 to 8-foot depth range,
11:52:04 normally the direction of drilling is quite a bit more
11:52:08 expensive than conventional backhoe digging.
11:52:11 Until you get into an urban setting.
11:52:13 And then it becomes a lot more economical to possibly
11:52:18 do the horizontal drilling.
11:52:19 That is when we are doing it in the Hillsborough River
11:52:22 it will actually be about 30 feet below the
11:52:27 Hillsborough arrive.
11:52:27 So just that week, Tuesday, a day of this week when we
11:52:33 had an expert in that field who was here talking to us
11:52:37 and really getting us comfortable with more of that
11:52:39 rather than less of that.
11:52:41 And at that point you are looking at 20 to 30 feet
11:52:45 below the surface of the ground.
11:52:47 >> I just asked that, sir.
11:52:50 I want to make sure at minimal interruption of
11:52:52 services in the city and traffic and in neighborhoods,
11:52:56 and I don't want to discomfort anyone.
11:53:00 >> And we will probably see more of that than we

11:53:04 thought we were going to see.
11:53:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If everybody is done I have a
11:53:07 question.
11:53:08 You were kind enough to provide me with this map but I
11:53:11 think it's important, since we do have a lot of folks
11:53:14 who watch this, if you could run very quickly over the
11:53:20 route, just hitting the major streets of where you
11:53:24 propose this.
11:53:25 And I know it's still not final because you have to
11:53:29 work out all these details with staff and everything
11:53:31 else.
11:53:31 But if could you start at Hookers Point.
11:53:34 >> You can use a pencil.
11:53:39 I don't know if you actually see that.
11:53:43 Come out of Hookers Point, and 19th street, and
11:53:56 19th to Adamo, and Adamo down to 15th,
11:54:02 15th to Third Avenue, Third Avenue through
11:54:04 Channelside, to Palm, go west on palm to North
11:54:10 Boulevard, cross over North Boulevard, stop, cross the
11:54:17 river just immediately west of North Boulevard.
11:54:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Put the overhead back on.
11:54:25 >>> Also, North Boulevard, we have turned right and go

11:54:29 west on Spruce Street, Rome, turn left on Rome, south
11:54:34 to Main Street, turn right on main, go west to
11:54:37 MacDill Avenue, turn right on MacDill.
11:54:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Go ahead.
11:54:44 >>> MacDill to spruce again, left on spruce oh,
11:54:50 request go west, go up Glen Avenue to Kathleen,
11:54:55 Kathleen, cross over Himes, get on the aviation
11:54:58 authority property, stay on their property immediately
11:55:02 north of Columbus to a point near the east-west
11:55:06 right-of-way and go north on the aviation authority
11:55:09 property, then cut due west on aviation property, get
11:55:13 back on north Westshore.
11:55:17 >> I appreciate that.
11:55:18 And I appreciate your candor through this process in
11:55:21 the last week or two.
11:55:22 Let me just say what I am going to say and then I'll
11:55:27 get Mrs. Saul-Sena and Mrs. Mulhern and hopefully wrap
11:55:32 this up for today.
11:55:32 I totally agree with what you said in terms of wanting
11:55:35 to ensure that maximum safety, let them directionally
11:55:40 drill where they can so they don't disrupt.
11:55:42 But the biggest concern that I have, and I think Mr.

11:55:45 Scott spoke to it very eloquently, is the issue of
11:55:48 public safety.
11:55:51 Not public safety during construction.
11:55:52 They are putting in an empty pipe during construction.
11:55:55 Have been does that in our rights-of-way.
11:55:57 The public safety issue is that after it's done and
11:56:00 it's all tested and everything else, then they run jet
11:56:03 fuel through it.
11:56:04 Right now we have a jet fuel pipe that runs all the
11:56:07 way from Port Tampa in my district up Westshore
11:56:09 Boulevard to the airport.
11:56:10 And that's been in there a long time and it's
11:56:16 functioned very well.
11:56:17 It's my understanding that that pipe has tremendous
11:56:20 capacity to supply the airport for the next, you know,
11:56:25 20, 30 years.
11:56:27 And, therefore, their key question to me is necessity.
11:56:31 I think what staff needs to do, and Mr. I have been
11:56:38 Lee in the audience and I think Mr. Daignault was here
11:56:41 before, what staff needs to do, they need to evaluate
11:56:44 the necessity of this, you know, and then balance that
11:56:48 on the public safety risk.

11:56:51 It's one thing for us to just, you know, when we give
11:56:54 franchise agreements to Verizon, you know, to put some
11:56:59 wires in the ground.
11:57:00 There's in a public safety issue.
11:57:02 Same thing with other -- most of the things we put in
11:57:06 the right-of-way, and not a significant public safety
11:57:09 issue.
11:57:09 To me -- and Jack, I appreciate you just went through
11:57:12 this route -- this goes up through Palmetto Beach, it
11:57:16 goes on the edge of Ybor City, it goes on the edge of
11:57:21 Central Park area, Tampa Heights, West Tampa, cuts all
11:57:26 the way through the southern edge of West Tampa, and
11:57:30 then on out.
11:57:35 That's right in between Macfarlane Park and the little
11:57:37 league field right there.
11:57:38 It's going right down Spruce Street right there.
11:57:41 That caught my eye.
11:57:43 So we have to evaluate carefully the public safety
11:57:45 issue versus the public necessity.
11:57:48 I know that your company is in the business of laying
11:57:50 these pipelines and you got them all across the
11:57:53 country and they are out in the desert of west Texas,

11:57:56 now, nobody cares.
11:57:57 But when they go through these neighborhoods, probably
11:58:00 more than 50,000 folks that I think it's very
11:58:02 important that we hash these issues out in a very,
11:58:07 very public way.
11:58:07 So I think we are just starting on this.
11:58:09 I am not going to pre-judge it because I think there's
11:58:12 a lot more questions to be answered.
11:58:14 But, anyway, who did I say next?
11:58:18 Mrs. Saul-Sena?
11:58:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Very eloquently said.
11:58:21 If you look at Tampa's historic fabric, this is going
11:58:26 smack through our national landmark district, another
11:58:30 national landmark district, and I just got a call from
11:58:33 the YCDC, the Ybor City Land Development Corporation,
11:58:38 that is the meeting that they weren't notified, that
11:58:40 the historic Ybor chamber wasn't notified of the
11:58:43 meeting last night, and president Henry Spicola
11:58:49 called.
11:58:49 The public wants to understand it and I would just
11:58:51 suggest that if you were to choose a route that didn't
11:58:56 go through our most historic neighborhoods, that that

11:58:59 would be a better route, whether it's four feet below
11:59:03 or 30 feet below, could you select a street like
11:59:09 Columbus drive rather than going through the middle of
11:59:12 our national landmark district and that would be less
11:59:14 critical but I think the overarching question is, is
11:59:17 this a public necessity?
11:59:19 And that's what we need to really hash through.
11:59:24 >> Let's wrap this up.
11:59:27 Mrs. Mulhern.
11:59:29 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to say when I look at
11:59:32 this map, if you look at Westshore Boulevard, it's a
11:59:35 straight line, where our existing pipeline is.
11:59:39 When you look at this map it kind of looks like
11:59:42 lightning.
11:59:42 It's a zigzag.
11:59:44 So it's kind of appropriate for Tampa, but that kind
11:59:47 of thumbs-up to me really looking at, you know, do we
11:59:52 really need this?
11:59:53 And I do think that our city in negotiating these kind
12:00:00 of -- the administration and legal, and negotiating
12:00:03 these kind of franchise agreements, look at what some
12:00:06 other options.

12:00:07 I'm also promoting, you know, competitive pricing, and
12:00:11 making our airport better.
12:00:13 But southbound this the only way we can do it?
12:00:15 Because as far as I can tell, we have a working
12:00:19 pipeline that had a great safety record, and now we
12:00:22 are being asked to put in a new one, where clearly we
12:00:25 have questions about the safety record of your
12:00:27 company.
12:00:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Jack, you will have more time to
12:00:34 speak to this when the franchise agreement comes back.
12:00:36 We appreciate you joining us today.
12:00:38 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I bring to your attention it is the
12:00:41 noon hour.
12:00:42 Under the new rules it only requires a majority vote
12:00:46 of council if you wish to work through lunch.
12:00:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think we have about a half dozen
12:00:50 second readings, and then we are done.
12:00:52 So I'll entertain a motion.
12:00:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move we continue.
12:00:56 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Motion and second to work through
12:01:00 the second readings and finish up.
12:01:02 It shouldn't take more than 10, 15 minutes.

12:01:04 Motion and second.
12:01:05 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
12:01:07 Any opposed?
12:01:08 Motion passes.
12:01:09 We'll chug along.
12:01:10 Item 46 for second reading.
12:01:17 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Witnesses for second reading?
12:01:18 Actually these are quasi-judicial, 46 and 47.
12:01:23 >> 46 and 47.
12:01:26 46.
12:01:31 Oh Miranda move an ordinance upon second reading, an
12:01:35 ordinance of the City of Tampa Florida amending City
12:01:37 of Tampa code of ordinances chapter 17.5 article IV,
12:01:41 land development variance review board, amending
12:01:44 section 17.5-71 establishment, composition and terms
12:01:48 officers, providing for severability, providing for
12:01:51 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
12:01:54 effective date.
12:01:57 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Was there a motion to open the public
12:01:59 hearing?
12:02:00 Motion to open the public hearing, please.
12:02:02 >> Move to open.

12:02:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We have a motion and second to open
12:02:08 the public hearing.
12:02:09 >> Did you want to take public comment before?
12:02:13 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is there anybody here who wants to
12:02:15 speak on item 46?
12:02:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I see no one.
12:02:19 Move to close.
12:02:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a question for our staff.
12:02:24 And that is about the content of this ordinance.
12:02:26 And that is, the question is, we are having trouble,
12:02:32 you may have noticed, getting people to serve because
12:02:35 it becomes so arduous because it becomes so
12:02:38 legalistic.
12:02:38 We are not getting citizens to step forward and
12:02:41 volunteer to serve on our various board.
12:02:43 So my question is, this addresses the fact that there
12:02:46 are seven members serving on the Variance Review
12:02:48 Board.
12:02:52 If we don't see more people volunteering to serve on
12:02:55 our board I think we should consider changing the
12:02:58 required number of participants to five, so that we
12:03:00 are able to get a quorum and continue to stack our --

12:03:04 staff our boards.
12:03:10 Anyway, my question, this is what happens when we are
12:03:14 not eating.
12:03:15 So my question is, would it be a relatively simple
12:03:18 matter if we don't get people applying for the three
12:03:23 boards that are short staffed right now, it would be a
12:03:29 relatively simple matter to change the number of board
12:03:31 members?
12:03:34 >>> Donna Wysong, legal department.
12:03:36 Sure, all you have to do is change your ordinances to
12:03:38 reflect that.
12:03:39 What we have tried to do is wave gone through all the
12:03:42 ordinances where you have created boards, and we tried
12:03:44 to make them uniform, so that we have made them all
12:03:48 seven-member boards, and if you want to make them
12:03:51 five-member boards, we just go through and we change
12:03:53 the ordinances to make them five members.
12:03:55 That's relatively easy to do.
12:03:59 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We'll continue that discussion
12:04:01 another day.
12:04:01 Mr. Miranda, read that one more time.
12:04:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: In the spirit of cooperation and

12:04:09 the fact I read it before the item was open I want to
12:04:11 make sure that I am reading correct.
12:04:13 So I am going to read the ordinance.
12:04:15 I move an ordinance adoption of the following
12:04:17 ordinance upon second reading, an ordinance of the
12:04:20 city of Tampa, Florida amending City of Tampa code of
12:04:22 ordinances chapter 17.5 article IV, land development,
12:04:26 Variance Review Board, amending section 17.5-71,
12:04:30 establishment, composition and terms, officers,
12:04:32 providing for severability, providing for repeal of
12:04:36 all ordinances in conflict, providing an effective
12:04:37 date.
12:04:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We have a motion and second.
12:04:41 Discussion on the motion?
12:04:43 Excuse me, we need to record our vote.
12:04:45 Clear that.
12:04:56 You're there.
12:04:58 I'm here.
12:04:59 Clear the vote because I voted wrong.
12:05:03 >>> We have a technical difficulty.
12:05:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Should we do a voice vote?
12:05:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No, we got it, we got it.

12:05:16 Vote and record.
12:05:21 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with Miller
12:05:22 being absent.
12:05:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Item 47.
12:05:27 Need a motion to open.
12:05:28 >> So moved.
12:05:29 >> Second.
12:05:29 (Motion carried).
12:05:30 >> Is anybody here in the public want to speak on item
12:05:38 47?
12:05:39 >> Move to close.
12:05:40 >> Second.
12:05:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mr. Scott, would you read that,
12:05:43 please?
12:05:44 >> Thank you.
12:05:45 Move an ordinance on second reading, City of Tampa
12:05:49 Florida amending City of Tampa code chapter 24,
12:05:52 article 5, occupation ally sense tax, amending chapter
12:05:55 24, section 101, amending chapter 22 beings section
12:05:59 122, payment of occupational license tax, amending
12:06:02 chapter 25, section 66, occupational license tax,
12:06:06 providing an effective date.

12:06:07 >> We have a motion and second.
12:06:08 Any discussion on the motion?
12:06:09 Please record your vote.
12:06:12 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with Miller
12:06:27 being absent.
12:06:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Item 48.
12:06:30 Why don't we open 48 through 50?
12:06:33 >> So moved.
12:06:34 >> Second.
12:06:34 (Motion carried).
12:06:35 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Do you want ton swear in any
12:06:42 witnesses if there are any?
12:06:46 >> Anyone to testify on 48, 49 or 50, please stand and
12:06:50 raise your right hand.
12:06:53 The petitioner on one.
12:06:56 He doesn't want.
12:06:59 >> Move to close.
12:07:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Motion and second to close item 48.
12:07:02 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
12:07:04 Okay.
12:07:06 Ms. Saul-Sena.
12:07:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move the following

12:07:09 ordinance upon second reading, an ordinance making
12:07:11 lawful the sale of beverages containing alcohol of
12:07:13 more than 1% by weight and not more than 14% by weight
12:07:16 and wines regardless of alcoholic content beer and
12:07:18 wine 2(COP-R) for consumption on the premises only in
12:07:20 connection with a restaurant business establishment on
12:07:23 that certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 428
12:07:27 west Waters Avenue, Tampa, Florida as more
12:07:29 particularly described in section 2 hereof waiving
12:07:31 certain restrictions as to distance based upon certain
12:07:34 findings, imposing certain conditions, providing for
12:07:37 repeal of all ordinances in conflict.
12:07:39 >> We have a motion and second.
12:07:41 Any discussion on the motion?
12:07:42 Please record your vote.
12:07:51 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with Miller
12:07:53 being absent.
12:07:57 >> Item 49.
12:07:58 We have a substitute motion.
12:08:00 That's already been provided to the clerk?
12:08:02 We have an ordinance?
12:08:04 Is there a motion to close?

12:08:05 Anybody in the public want to speak to this?
12:08:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close.
12:08:09 >> Second.
12:08:09 (Motion carried).
12:08:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move a substitute ordinance
12:08:18 number 49, an ordinance making lawful, second reading
12:08:23 on this ordinance, making lawful the sale of alcoholic
12:08:26 beverages regarding alcoholic content, beer, wine and
12:08:29 liquor, 4(COP-X) for consumption on premises only at
12:08:33 or from that certain lot, plot or tract of land locate
12:08:35 at 1103 east Cumberland Avenue, Tampa, Florida as more
12:08:39 particularly described in section 2 hereof waiving
12:08:42 certain restrictions as to distance based upon certain
12:08:44 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
12:08:47 conflict, providing an effective date.
12:08:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
12:08:51 We have a motion and a second.
12:08:53 Is there any discussion on the motion?
12:08:55 Please record your vote.
12:09:08 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena voting no,
12:09:11 and Miller being absent.
12:09:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Finally, item 50.

12:09:17 Is there anybody in the audience that wants to speak
12:09:18 to this item?
12:09:20 >> Move to close.
12:09:21 >> Second.
12:09:21 (Motion carried).
12:09:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ms. Mulhern, would you be
12:09:27 interested in reading that motion?
12:09:28 >>MARY MULHERN: I move to adopt upon second reading
12:09:39 petition of Richard --
12:09:43 >> Off the agenda.
12:09:43 >> Oh, off the agenda.
12:09:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: 50.
12:09:47 >> Sorry.
12:09:48 Move to adopt upon second reading an ordinance making
12:09:50 lawful the sale of beverages containing alcohol of
12:09:52 more than 1% by weight and not more than 14% by weight
12:09:55 and wines regardless of alcoholic content, beer and
12:09:58 wine, 2(COP-R), for consumption on the premises only
12:10:02 in connection with a restaurant business establishment
12:10:04 on that certain lot, plot or tract of land located at
12:10:07 6401 north Nebraska Avenue, Tampa, Florida, as more
12:10:11 particularly described in section 2 hereof, waiving

12:10:14 certain restrictions as to distance based upon certain
12:10:17 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
12:10:19 conflict, providing an effective date.
12:10:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We have a motion and second.
12:10:24 Any discussion on the motion?
12:10:25 Please record your vote.
12:10:33 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried unanimously with Miller
12:10:35 being absent.
12:10:39 >> Thank you, madam clerk.
12:10:40 Thank you, council.
12:10:41 We'll move on to information reports and new business
12:10:44 by council members.
12:10:44 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
12:10:46 I'm passing along a memo that we received from Mary
12:10:50 Helen Duke, former greenways and trail coordinator.
12:10:54 We have developed a greenways and trails master plan
12:10:57 with amendments and I just want to make sure that we
12:11:01 take action on this.
12:11:02 We don't need to do it today.
12:11:04 I would like to suggest that -- we have public
12:11:09 hearings on it.
12:11:10 I don't think we need any more public input because it

12:11:12 was developed by an advisory committee, that we put
12:11:15 this on our agenda for the second meeting this month.
12:11:23 The 18th?
12:11:24 The October 18th meeting for consideration of the
12:11:28 adoption of our greenways and trails master plan.
12:11:31 >> Second.
12:11:31 >> Is the master plan ready to go and ready for our
12:11:35 approval?
12:11:37 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I believe so.
12:11:38 And there's a CD if you would like in the CD form.
12:11:42 We can get it for all the council members.
12:11:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: So we'll direct legal to do
12:11:47 whatever is necessary to bring it back on October
12:11:49 18th.
12:11:50 There's a motion and second.
12:11:51 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
12:11:53 Opposed?
12:11:54 >> Thank you.
12:11:55 Two other items real quickly.
12:11:57 I sent you all a memo about -- requesting an update on
12:12:02 the status of historic properties, and a time line for
12:12:06 the look at transfer of development rights.

12:12:10 You all received a copy of this.
12:12:12 I would like to request in brief written form is fine
12:12:16 but I just need a status update on October 18th.
12:12:19 >> Second.
12:12:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Motion and second.
12:12:22 (Motion carried).
12:12:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Last but not least, not this Sunday
12:12:28 but next, the the beautiful tower in Sulphur Springs
12:12:32 is going to have a symphony, free symphony concert at
12:12:35 the base of it.
12:12:36 October 14th, under the stars, and the towers
12:12:41 light at 7 p.m., free and open to all citizens and
12:12:43 folks in the county.
12:12:44 And we invite everyone to come and enjoy: It's the
12:12:48 Florida orchestra.
12:12:49 It's a beautiful setting, the one last year was huge.
12:12:53 And this is celebrating the victory for the river.
12:12:56 >> Excellent.
12:13:00 So that's information.
12:13:01 Mr. Miranda.
12:13:01 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I am going to spare you any
12:13:04 heartache.

12:13:04 I have none.
12:13:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you.
12:13:07 Mr. Scott.
12:13:07 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Madam Chairman.
12:13:11 Just a couple items.
12:13:12 [ Laughter ]
12:13:12 I'm sorry.
12:13:17 I just want to point out, the issue about the prayer
12:13:26 in the evenings.
12:13:27 I want to call to the our attention again.
12:13:29 I mentioned on our retreat since we open in the
12:13:32 morning our regular meetings with prayer and
12:13:33 invocation that perhaps you don't need to do it again
12:13:36 in the evening when you come back.
12:13:38 Okay.
12:13:40 I want to highlight that we do it in the morning at
12:13:44 all our meetings in terms of the board meetings start
12:13:46 at 9:00 in the morning and if we have an evening
12:13:48 meeting that we don't have to come back and do the
12:13:50 same thing.
12:13:51 So if anybody just needs a prayer, I'll be available.
12:13:59 >> Mr. Shelby, do we need to do anything procedurally?

12:14:03 >> No, council, but normally the invocation and prayer
12:14:06 are -- the invocation on the pledge of allegiance are
12:14:10 in your order of business for the regular meeting.
12:14:12 Now you are going to have Community Redevelopment
12:14:13 Agency on the second, generally, and you are going to
12:14:16 have a workshop on the fourth Thursday generally.
12:14:19 So if its council's intention, if that's the case you
12:14:23 can do it just by resolution, by motion, if it's
12:14:26 council's intention for every morning meeting to have
12:14:28 an invocation and a pledge of allegiance, and with
12:14:32 regard to the evening meetings traditionally you begin
12:14:36 with the pledge of allegiance and invocation, if it's
12:14:39 --
12:14:40 >> I think that's well stated.
12:14:42 We'll entertain a motion accordingly.
12:14:43 >> So moved.
12:14:44 >> Second.
12:14:44 (Motion carried).
12:14:45 >>MARY MULHERN: I wanted to say that I hope the
12:14:50 reporters note it was the preacher that --
12:14:54 [ Laughter ]
12:14:54 >> Okay.

12:15:01 Rebuttal.
12:15:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I want to make the point that it was
12:15:07 our first day of agenda change and our agenda went
12:15:09 very well and we would have gotten out on time but
12:15:14 Mary asked a lot of questions.
12:15:16 [ Laughter ]
12:15:16 Just teasing.
12:15:17 But did a good job.
12:15:18 I really want to compliment councilwoman Mary Mulhern
12:15:22 for an excellent job raising excellent questions, and
12:15:24 I think was on target.
12:15:26 I really do want to commend you for that today.
12:15:31 >> Thank you.
12:15:31 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Ms. Mulhern.
12:15:34 >>MARY MULHERN: I am not done talking yet
12:15:37 unfortunately.
12:15:37 I have a couple items of new business.
12:15:39 Number one is just some good news, and hopefully my
12:15:42 memory of numbers is good.
12:15:43 But at the freedom playground, they outdid themselves
12:15:49 by raising $55,000.
12:15:52 A lot of that thanks to council and our staff who

12:15:56 contributed.
12:15:57 And they had 350 participants.
12:16:01 And I think that was well over last year I think they
12:16:03 raised about 40,000.
12:16:05 So they did really well.
12:16:06 >> Congratulations.
12:16:13 >>MARY MULHERN: And my second item is, I have to ask
12:16:18 council, in support of our motion on June 28th,
12:16:23 2007, if we can remember way back then, I made a
12:16:27 motion to seek legislative support for amending the
12:16:31 composition of the Environmental Protection
12:16:33 Commission.
12:16:37 I have prepared that attached draft language, and I
12:16:40 would like to ask that each of you review this, so
12:16:44 that I may seek your input under new business.
12:16:49 Oh, I already said this.
12:16:50 I was going to ask, have you seen this?
12:16:53 This is my memo that was supposed to go out.
12:16:55 Maybe we could talk about this at next week's meeting.
12:17:00 If you don't already have this, it's the draft
12:17:05 legislation and justification for changing the
12:17:07 composition of the board so that we, the City of

12:17:12 Tampa, the city of Temple Terrace, and the city of
12:17:15 Plant City, have representation at the Board of
12:17:18 Directors of the EPC.
12:17:22 I have had conversations with the mayor of Plant City,
12:17:26 and the city managers, Plant City and Temple Terrace.
12:17:32 They are in favor of this, and after you hopefully
12:17:36 approve the wording of the legislation, we will --
12:17:42 I'll bring it to them and get their approval.
12:17:44 And then it has to go to the Hillsborough delegation
12:17:47 by, I think, November 1st.
12:17:50 So if we can, I guess, vote on it next week.
12:17:56 >> The 18th.
12:17:57 >> The next regular session of council is October
12:18:01 18th.
12:18:02 The CRA.
12:18:02 And the evening session.
12:18:05 >> Madam Chair --
12:18:08 >> Mrs. Saul-Sena.
12:18:08 >> We have all agreed to this.
12:18:10 We have asked you to do this.
12:18:12 I compliment you for taking the ball and running it
12:18:14 with it and I am I'm prepared to support it now.

12:18:18 Would you like to make the motion?
12:18:20 >> That's fine.
12:18:21 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me ask a question.
12:18:24 I called for that and never -- that's the rule, right?
12:18:27 I want to make sure we follow the rule now.
12:18:29 My understanding is that you come under new business,
12:18:33 ask for it to be placed on the agenda, the next
12:18:35 agenda.
12:18:36 Is isn't that what your rules say?
12:18:39 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm not sure about it because we voted
12:18:41 to do it and this is the action of writing it.
12:18:44 So whatever he would want to do.
12:18:45 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Why don't we put it on the agenda
12:18:50 for next Thursday.
12:18:51 We have the discretion to just add something.
12:18:53 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Do you want to add to the T a CRA,
12:18:55 add it to the evening?
12:18:58 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What do we have next Thursday?
12:19:00 >> Next Thursday is the community redevelopment.
12:19:03 At 9 a.m.
12:19:04 Then you have a City Council evening session beginning
12:19:06 at 5:30 p.m.

12:19:07 >> How about the evening?
12:19:14 >>MARY MULHERN: This is such a rush.
12:19:17 We would have time to prepare it and get it to the
12:19:20 people who need to see it.
12:19:22 So if it doesn't make a lot of difference --
12:19:27 >> Might I suggest that you have a special City
12:19:30 Council meeting at 8:55 for this?
12:19:34 And that way --
12:19:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: In terms of process, and I agree
12:19:41 with Tom in process, next Thursday, that's our first
12:19:44 CRA block.
12:19:44 I don't think it's that time sensitive that in the
12:19:47 evening we couldn't do it.
12:19:48 So why don't we just do it in the evening because we
12:19:50 have a council meeting in the evening.
12:19:51 And the clerk seems to northbound agreement on that as
12:19:53 well.
12:19:54 And I'm real comfortable with doing it --
12:19:58 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I don't have a problem with it.
12:20:01 >> Okay.
12:20:01 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Then if you need to get it out, you
12:20:04 can get it out on Friday.

12:20:06 We have a motion to put this on the agenda for next
12:20:09 Thursday evening at 6:00.
12:20:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Could you do it at 5:30.
12:20:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Motion by Ms. Mulhern, Ms.
12:20:23 Saul-Sena seconded it.
12:20:25 Anything else?
12:20:25 Mr. Caetano.
12:20:27 All right.
12:20:28 I just wanted to say one thing that's kind of to Ms.
12:20:32 Mulhern.
12:20:33 A, don't apologize for asking questions.
12:20:35 That's why we are here.
12:20:36 And, B, you did a very good job on raising the public
12:20:40 necessity issue on the gas line, and you deserve
12:20:42 credit for that, and I apologize for not giving you
12:20:45 credit earlier.
12:20:46 That's all I have to say.
12:20:47 Anything from the clerk?
12:20:50 >> Receive and file.
12:20:51 >> So moved.
12:20:52 >> Second.
12:20:53 >> Motion to receive and file.

12:20:55 (Motion carried).
12:20:56 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Mr. Chairman, anybody present with
12:21:00 regard to general comment.
12:21:04 >> Anything else from the clerk?
12:21:05 Anything from Mr. Shelby?
12:21:07 We go to general comment.
12:21:08 Nobody is here.
12:21:08 The meeting is adjourned.
12:21:13 (City Council meeting adjourned)
12:21:41