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Tampa City Council
Thursday, October 18, 2007
9:00 a.m. session

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08:54:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Tampa City Council is called to order.
09:07:45 The chair will yield to Ms. Mary Mulhern.
09:07:52 >>MARY MULHERN: Good morning.
09:07:53 I would like to introduce a local councilman who is
09:07:56 also a pastor, reverend James Scoldon, not Reverend
09:08:03 Scott.

09:08:04 Reverend gold on, like Reverend Scott, is a
09:08:07 councilman, on the Bradenton City Council.
09:08:12 Also on the Tampa Bay Regional Planning Council where
09:08:19 I met him, and he agreed to come and give our
09:08:21 invocation this morning.
09:08:22 So welcome, reverend gold on and Mrs. Golden.
09:08:26 >>GWEN MILLER: Please stand and remain standing for
09:08:29 the pledge of allegiance.
09:08:34 >> I don't know when I'll ever get back this way so
09:08:37 I'm going to take this moment to take you out of your
09:08:39 confident zone.
09:08:40 I bring you greetings from the 11th district of
09:08:45 African Methodist Episcopal church, pastor young our
09:08:51 presiding Bishop and we are as we speak in session in
09:08:54 your city here in Tampa.
09:08:56 We are meeting over at the African Methodist Episcopal
09:09:00 church and we are just enjoying a delightful time here
09:09:03 in this beautiful place.
09:09:09 Now, if you will reach out and touch somebody as we
09:09:13 pray.
09:09:14 Eternal God our father, we thank you for waking us up
09:09:23 early this morning, in our right mind and with a

09:09:29 reasonable portion of health and strength.
09:09:33 We thank you for this opportunity to come once again
09:09:35 into this arena for the purposes that have been set
09:09:39 forth by this agenda.
09:09:41 We ask you now to make us selfless and faithful in our
09:09:46 obligations and in our duty.
09:09:49 We pray that you will be in the minds and the hearts
09:09:53 and the souls of those who are charged with deciding
09:09:57 those matters that will make us all better citizens.
09:10:01 We pray that you will be in what they see, what they
09:10:04 say, what they hear, but most of all we pray that you
09:10:07 would be in what they feel.
09:10:08 We ask you now to bless this community.
09:10:11 We ask you to move across its breadth and put your
09:10:18 love in the heart of each and every one of us.
09:10:20 Make it so that we will want to live in peace and in
09:10:24 harmony with one another.
09:10:26 We pray a special prayer for those who are charged
09:10:29 with our safety and with our well-being, those who
09:10:33 place their lives on the line each day, that we might
09:10:38 all be able to enjoy a quality of life second to none.
09:10:43 We ask you to just continue to be God all by yourself,

09:10:48 and help us to be better brothers and sisters day by
09:10:51 day to one another.
09:10:52 And together, the people of God said: Amen.
09:11:02 (Pledge of Allegiance).
09:11:13 >>> And as my parting words, Go Bulls!
09:11:16 [ Applause ]
09:11:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Roll call.
09:11:24 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
09:11:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
09:11:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
09:11:27 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
09:11:28 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
09:11:30 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
09:11:32 At this time I am going to turn to Reverend Scott who
09:11:34 will do the commendation for the Officer of the Month.
09:11:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Good morning, members of council and
09:11:51 the audience that are here this morning.
09:11:52 It is always my pleasure each month to come and
09:11:57 recognize the Officer of the Month who has given so
09:12:04 much of themselves and to the community.
09:12:06 So that person today is sergeant Debbie Hutches.
09:12:10 I am going to ask the chief of police now, Chief

09:12:12 Hogue, to come, and read the bio and that information
09:12:16 and I will come back with several presentations.
09:12:18 Chief Hogue.
09:12:21 >>> Thank you, reverend.
09:12:22 Once again, council, thank you for this opportunity to
09:12:25 address the council and to introduce our Officer of
09:12:28 the Month, October 2007, who is Debby Hutches.
09:12:36 Sergeant Hutches is a veteran of the Tampa Police
09:12:38 Department and she has, through her career, been
09:12:42 involved in many good things in the benefit of the
09:12:47 city.
09:12:48 What we are recognizing her for today is that we had
09:12:55 three suspects from St. Petersburg.
09:13:00 It's not like I guess we have enough of our own but
09:13:03 St. Pete has decided to come over here now.
09:13:05 They stole a car in St. Petersburg, and they came to
09:13:07 Tampa, and in less than one hour they did an armed
09:13:13 robbery, they attempted to steal another car, and they
09:13:17 attempted to carjack two people.
09:13:20 This is all in less than one hour.
09:13:22 Sergeant Hutches is an experienced officer, like I
09:13:25 said.

09:13:25 She runs a plain clothes squad of officers, and she
09:13:29 immediately recognized that this was probably going to
09:13:33 continue.
09:13:33 This was not going to stop.
09:13:35 These folks had come over here to create a crime
09:13:38 spree, and they had started it when they had done that
09:13:42 in one hour and I imagine what they would have done in
09:13:44 left to their own devices over the next three or four
09:13:48 hours, so she moved mer whole squad down to South
09:13:51 Tampa where these individuals were operating, not only
09:13:54 did she dispatch her unit out there, she started
09:13:58 looking herself, and as experience always helps that
09:14:03 she has, she in fact is the one who found the stolen
09:14:06 car with the three suspects in it, tried to stop them.
09:14:09 Of course, they fled.
09:14:10 She chased them.
09:14:12 And ended up bailing out of the car, and they ran, and
09:14:18 she and many other officers assisted her and captured
09:14:23 these three felons before they could cause more
09:14:27 trouble in the City of Tampa.
09:14:29 And when she has her opportunity to speak up here, I'm
09:14:32 sure she's going to tell you that these kind of

09:14:34 operations are all teamwork.
09:14:37 But teamwork really doesn't work if you don't have
09:14:40 leadership.
09:14:40 And that's what she provided.
09:14:42 Not only did she provide the leadership to get her
09:14:44 squad down there.
09:14:45 She provided the leadership to organize the
09:14:50 containment of the suspects when they fled, and to in
09:14:53 fact see that they were in fact captured, and on top
09:14:56 of that she is also the one who found them and
09:14:58 initiated the pursuit.
09:14:59 So she just about did it all herself on this one, even
09:15:02 though she'll tell you that's not true.
09:15:08 We recovered guns and money, and those kind of things.
09:15:12 And the most important part is there is three very
09:15:15 dangerous felons that are no longer out, you know,
09:15:18 causing mayhem in the City of Tampa, nor the city of
09:15:22 St. Pete or anywhere else they might be just due to
09:15:25 her efforts.
09:15:28 It's our pleasure to introduce her as our officer of
09:15:31 the months for October 2007.
09:15:33 [ Applause ]

09:15:40 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you, Chief Hogue.
09:15:42 On behalf of the Tampa City Council, it is my pleasure
09:15:44 and honor to be able to present to you this
09:15:46 commendation.
09:15:48 And recognize you for your out standing service and
09:15:51 leadership to the citizens of Tampa, Florida, and as
09:15:55 always, we appreciate the police department in the
09:16:01 City of Tampa, and putting their lives on the line
09:16:05 every day in protecting us so that we can sleep at
09:16:08 night and enjoy the pleasures of life.
09:16:12 On behalf of Tampa City Council I want to present with
09:16:14 you this, first of all.
09:16:17 Then I have a gift certificate from Charlie's in the
09:16:21 amount of $100 that you can go over to Charlie's and
09:16:25 enjoy a nice dinner, and if you don't have nobody else
09:16:30 I will be more than happy to go.
09:16:32 [ Laughter ]
09:16:33 A gift and presentation.
09:16:43 >> Steve Stickley representing Stepps towing.
09:16:47 Jim and Judy Stepps on behalf of Stepps towing
09:16:52 service, we would like to present with you this token
09:16:54 of our appreciation for a job well done.

09:16:57 And as a homeowner in South Tampa, I really appreciate
09:17:01 what you do down there, and a gift certificate to
09:17:06 Lee Roy Selmon's.
09:17:08 >> Thank you.
09:17:10 I appreciate it.
09:17:14 >> Representing Tampa Lowry Park Zoo, we thank you for
09:17:17 your community, your service to our community, and we
09:17:19 want to invite you and your family to come out.
09:17:24 Thank you very much.
09:17:31 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I'm here on behalf of a variety of
09:17:35 folks, and I'd like to present these certificates to
09:17:38 you on their behalf.
09:17:39 The first one is Bryn Allen studios would like to
09:17:43 present with you a photographic studio package, where
09:17:45 you can have your family pictures taken.
09:17:47 And I would like to present you with a $100 gift
09:17:51 certificate from Bern's steak house so when you finish
09:17:54 with Charlie's you can go to Bern's or vice versa.
09:17:59 When the Hillsborough County towing association would
09:18:02 like to present with you a $50 gift certificate of
09:18:04 your choice, Lee Roy Selmon Expressway, Carrabas or
09:18:07 Outback.

09:18:08 So congratulations.
09:18:08 And you are going to have a lot to eat.
09:18:10 >> Thank you so much.
09:18:14 [ Applause ]
09:18:21 >> I'm just going to keep this real quick.
09:18:23 I truly feel blessed working in the community and
09:18:26 working for this department.
09:18:28 The day that this happened I did think it was just a
09:18:31 typical morning day and I just considered by doing my
09:18:33 job.
09:18:34 But it's nice to be recognized.
09:18:35 The other thing is, I just wanted to thank the
09:18:39 council, thank the community for all your support, and
09:18:42 thank my department for recognizing me.
09:18:48 [ Applause ]
09:18:51 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That concludes that.
09:18:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I wanted to say as a South Tampa
09:18:57 resident and representative, it's interesting, because
09:19:01 a lot of times I'll see something going on with police
09:19:04 cars and inevitably pull over and find out what's
09:19:06 going on, and half the time I see you there.
09:19:09 And inevitably, it's like you're in charge.

09:19:13 I ask you what's going on, and it's very professional,
09:19:16 and it's an award well deserved and we appreciate your
09:19:21 hard work.
09:19:22 Thank you.
09:19:24 >>GWEN MILLER: At this time Ms. Saul-Sena has a
09:19:26 presentation she would like to do.
09:19:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Good morning.
09:19:42 I want to introduce to council and to the community
09:19:45 one of the newest members of our area.
09:19:47 This is the Tampa Theatre new creation called Ebie, in
09:19:56 honor of John Eberson, architect who designed the
09:19:56 theater. Ebie was created by a local creative firm
09:19:58 called Creatures of Delight.
09:20:00 They looked at several of the gargoyles in the Tampa
09:20:03 Theatre and made something a little more kid friendly.
09:20:06 We have one for each of you all from the Tampa Theatre
09:20:09 restoration society.
09:20:10 Reason that I'm sharing this with you today is Sunday,
09:20:12 this Sunday, from 2:00 to 5:00 at the Tampa Theatre,
09:20:16 families are invited for a very family-friendly
09:20:20 Halloween celebration, free popcorn, family-friendly
09:20:25 movies and a tour of the theater.

09:20:26 We encourage all Tampa residents to come and enjoy.
09:20:33 These are for sale, created by creatures of the life
09:20:37 and they are squishy and fun.
09:20:40 And I can see, Mr. Miranda, you are enjoying it
09:20:42 already, which is good.
09:20:47 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Whoever designed it really did an
09:20:49 outstanding job.
09:20:50 And I hope the council doesn't take any offense, but
09:20:53 it looks like an elected official.
09:20:58 The ram, horns, and the mouth is always open.
09:21:08 >> Mr. Shelby, do we have to declare these as gifts?
09:21:12 [ Laughter ]
09:21:12 >>CHAIRMAN: At this time, Mr. Dingfelder will do a
09:21:17 commendation.
09:21:21 >> It's my honor and privilege as your representative
09:21:40 on the river board to be honoring the Hillsborough
09:21:42 River basin board, and also to be -- to recognize this
09:21:47 coming week is the Hillsborough River watershed
09:21:49 awareness week.
09:21:51 And with us today is Kendra Antwon, who is here on
09:21:57 behalf of Dave Moore who couldn't make it, and she's
09:22:00 the senior director, and also two of the basin board

09:22:03 members.
09:22:06 Of course, we often see Joe Robinson, your fellow
09:22:11 basin board member.
09:22:13 He joins us regularly as well.
09:22:16 But one of the things I think is important to stress,
09:22:21 it's not only the Hillsborough River but it's the
09:22:23 entire basin that is important.
09:22:25 And the basin, of course, goes up into Polk County,
09:22:28 and I think basket as well as the Hillsborough part of
09:22:32 the basin.
09:22:33 So we have to be vigilant in terms of making sure that
09:22:37 that basin is kept pure and safer so the river is kept
09:22:42 clean.
09:22:43 And yesterday, I was teaching some 7th graders for
09:22:47 an hour, and I said, what does the city do for you?
09:22:51 And the kids kind of shrug their shoulder and say, I
09:22:54 don't know.
09:22:55 I said, well, when you wake up in the morning what's
09:22:57 the first thing do you?
09:22:58 You turn on the faucet in your bathroom and you brush
09:23:01 your teeth with fresh, potable water.
09:23:03 And most of that water for Tampa comes out of the

09:23:05 river.
09:23:06 And they go, oh, yeah, you know.
09:23:08 And we got into a big discussion about the importance
09:23:11 of the river and the importance of not putting things,
09:23:14 you know, down the drains and that sort of thing.
09:23:18 And these guys are doing a great job of stressing that
09:23:21 this coming week, and teaching that to our entire
09:23:23 community.
09:23:24 So on behalf of the City Council, we wanted to give
09:23:26 you all this commendation, and it reads as follows:
09:23:32 Recognizing that the Hillsborough River is one of
09:23:34 Florida's natural treasures in a river worth
09:23:36 protecting and recognizing the Hillsborough River
09:23:39 watershed determines the health of the Hillsborough
09:23:41 River, acknowledging that the City of Tampa is located
09:23:44 within the Hillsborough River watershed, and those who
09:23:46 live, work and play in the City of Tampa can make a
09:23:49 big difference when it comes to protecting the
09:23:51 Hillsborough River and its watershed.
09:23:53 In recognizing that the Southwest Florida Water
09:23:54 Management District, SWFWMD, and the Hillsborough
09:23:57 River watershed alliance and other environmental

09:24:00 agencies are all working together to increase
09:24:04 awareness of the Hillsborough River, and an essential
09:24:10 part of protecting the Hillsborough River and its
09:24:13 watershed, therefore it's hereby resolved that this
09:24:15 coming week, October 20 to 27, 2007, is recognized by
09:24:20 Tampa City Council and the residents of the City of
09:24:21 Tampa as Hillsborough River watershed awareness week,
09:24:25 and all citizens and businesses are called upon to
09:24:27 help protect watershed by practicing water
09:24:31 conservation and protection measures.
09:24:32 And if anybody wants to say a few words.
09:24:37 >> Thank you very much.
09:24:39 On behalf of the Hillsborough River basin board, I
09:24:42 want to tell you how much we appreciate the
09:24:44 cooperation of the City of Tampa and also the
09:24:48 residents of the city.
09:24:49 I had the pleasure of signing a similar resolution on
09:24:53 behalf of the basin board proclaiming the same type of
09:24:58 thing.
09:24:59 We want to thank you very much for your cooperation.
09:25:01 And we look forward to continued work to protect one
09:25:05 of Florida's greatest natural resources.

09:25:07 Thank you.
09:25:07 >> Thank you.
09:25:09 [ Applause ]
09:25:16 >>GWEN MILLER: At this time I would like to turn to
09:25:18 our attorney, Mr. Shelby.
09:25:22 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I attended last week a
09:25:24 meeting at the invitation of members of T.H.A.N., to
09:25:28 discuss the new council procedures.
09:25:30 And I received a lot of feedback from the council
09:25:33 regarding the sign-in sheets and the process of how
09:25:35 they should be able to speak.
09:25:38 And, council, based on that, I had a discussion with
09:25:40 the chair.
09:25:42 And there was a discussion that perhaps especially
09:25:45 with an agenda this long to speed things up, to not
09:25:48 have a sign-in sheet and just call up those people
09:25:51 that wanted to have the opportunity for those agendaed
09:25:54 items, and then after that, until whatever time is
09:25:56 remaining those people not on the agenda.
09:25:59 It was brought to my attention it was council's
09:26:05 decision to have a sign-in sheet.
09:26:07 I know I did communicate to people this morning there

09:26:09 was not going to be a sign-in sheet.
09:26:12 That was not correct being that it was also in the
09:26:14 council's purview.
09:26:16 I do apologize again to the public and the City
09:26:18 Council causing that confusion.
09:26:19 It would be my suggestion today, particularly, and I
09:26:21 would like to share with council the feedback I did
09:26:23 get from T.H.A.N., how to speed things along, that you
09:26:26 ask the chair to just call up the people the way you
09:26:30 normally did with the agenda items first and then
09:26:32 after the time remaining the nonagendaed items.
09:26:35 Again my apologies to council.
09:26:39 >> We now go to the staff sign-in sheet.
09:26:43 First we have Julia Cole, if she's in here.
09:26:47 Is Julia here?
09:26:52 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, just for purposes of
09:26:53 clarification, it's the council's decision then to go
09:26:56 forward without the sign-in sheet particularly for
09:26:58 today?
09:26:58 And then we can discuss how to do it.
09:27:01 Or would you like to have people do it now?
09:27:03 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, obviously that decision has

09:27:05 already been made but I would like to have a
09:27:06 discussion about that.
09:27:07 It's very important as a council that sets policies
09:27:11 that it takes council vote to change those policies.
09:27:14 No outside organization, not even the attorney for the
09:27:16 board or the city attorney, council takes that vote.
09:27:22 And we are the elected body.
09:27:25 And you just can't arbitrarily just do things.
09:27:27 There's a process in place.
09:27:29 We need to follow that process until council takes
09:27:31 action.
09:27:31 That's my position.
09:27:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Amen.
09:27:34 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
09:27:36 I'm here requesting that items number 86 and 87 be
09:27:40 removed from the agenda.
09:27:41 >> So moved.
09:27:42 >> Second.
09:27:43 (Motion carried).
09:27:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Jorge Martin.
09:27:51 >> Jorge Martin, city legal department.
09:27:54 I'm here to walk on a substitute item number 20 is a

09:27:59 resolution approving a second amendment to the library
09:28:02 interlocal agreement.
09:28:04 There's a typographical error on the title of the
09:28:07 resolution.
09:28:08 The period of three years commencing October 1st,
09:28:16 2007, should be commencing October 1st, 2009.
09:28:21 And I have the substituted corrected resolutions for
09:28:26 you.
09:28:36 Number 20.
09:28:37 We'll deal with in a when we get to it.
09:28:38 Sal Territo.
09:28:42 >>SAL TERRITO: Legal department.
09:28:43 I have been asked to make a substitution for item
09:28:45 number 53.
09:28:46 There's a typo on there.
09:28:47 One of the accounts was incorrectly placed on there so
09:28:51 we made a change on that.
09:28:52 >> We'll get to that when we get to it in committee
09:28:57 reports.
09:28:57 Now approval of agenda.
09:28:58 Are there any items council needs to pull?
09:29:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I'm still getting used to our new

09:29:09 process and I wondered if we needed to recognize like
09:29:15 off-the-agenda items, walk-on at this time.
09:29:23 They are basically setting new business.
09:29:24 >>CHAIRMAN: Right.
09:29:25 Under committee reports.
09:29:26 We'll get to those.
09:29:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I move the agenda.
09:29:29 >> Second.
09:29:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
09:29:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, did you want to announce the
09:29:35 continuance or removal of items or did you want to do
09:29:37 when you get to those items?
09:29:40 >>CHAIRMAN: They are in the committee reports.
09:29:42 >> I believe some of them are staff reports.
09:29:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay.
09:29:46 20 --
09:29:50 >> Number 20 is Mr. Dingfelder as I remember.
09:29:53 When we get to them, I would suggest.
09:29:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Okay, when we get to them.
09:29:56 Okay.
09:29:58 We have a motion.
09:29:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.

09:30:01 For example, the first continuance which has been
09:30:05 requested is a continuance of the discussion about
09:30:08 Tampa housing authority.
09:30:10 There are people in the audience who are waiting to
09:30:12 discuss that.
09:30:13 I think it would be helpful for them to know that --
09:30:18 >> When we get to item 101 and pull those.
09:30:21 I would agree.
09:30:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I think it would be helpful for the
09:30:24 people in the audience if we announce that items 101
09:30:27 has been asked for a continuance, 102, 111 and 127.
09:30:31 It doesn't mean the people can't speak on them.
09:30:33 But it just means that we probably won't take any
09:30:38 action on them because continuances have been
09:30:41 requested.
09:30:41 >>GWEN MILLER: On the staff reports, anyone in the
09:30:43 public that came to speak on item 101?
09:30:47 It's going to be removed and continued to November
09:30:51 1st.
09:30:55 Here to speak on 101, it will be November 1st.
09:31:03 >> Do you want to pull those and go ahead and continue
09:31:05 them?

09:31:07 I move to continue 101 to November 1st.
09:31:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:31:11 (Motion carried).
09:31:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to continue 102 to November
09:31:17 15th pursuant to staff request.
09:31:19 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
09:31:21 (Motion carried).
09:31:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: What else?
09:31:26 >>GWEN MILLER: They want to pull --
09:31:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: 111 we received a written report
09:31:32 but I think anyone that wants to speak on them should
09:31:34 have that --
09:31:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And what else?
09:31:38 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 86 and 87.
09:31:41 >> Those are in committee.
09:31:44 >> So wait for those?
09:31:46 Okay.
09:31:47 We'll wait for the rest.
09:31:51 Motion and second to approve the agenda.
09:31:52 (Motion carried)
09:31:54 Now we will go to our consent agenda.
09:31:58 We have public comments first.

09:32:01 Anyone in the public that wants ton speak to any item
09:32:03 on the agenda not set for a public hearing may come
09:32:04 and speak now.
09:32:11 Each speaker has three minutes.
09:32:12 >>> My name is Keith Kohler, a CPA firm in West Tampa.
09:32:19 On September 20th, I believe the date was, the
09:32:22 City Council had a meeting relating to an update on
09:32:25 the heritage square project.
09:32:27 I sent a letter to City Council, which I hope that all
09:32:30 of you received and read.
09:32:35 Yesterday, going through my relationship with West
09:32:38 Tampa.
09:32:39 I have been a resident since 2003, filled three
09:32:43 offices there, I have been involved in the ownership
09:32:46 of seven lots right around, and I was shocked at the
09:32:55 action of council.
09:32:57 From my perspective it was potentially back peddling
09:33:00 on the heritage square project.
09:33:01 That heritage square project is huge for West Tampa,
09:33:06 and is going to provide an economic influx, a real
09:33:10 estate tax base, an employment base for the residents
09:33:12 of West Tampa, and I'm here to speak to the City

09:33:16 Council to ask City Council to move forward with that
09:33:18 project.
09:33:20 It takes forever to get a project rolling, and this
09:33:23 group has spent what I believe to be probably an
09:33:25 enormous amount of money moving their project forward,
09:33:30 and it takes forever to get a project out of the
09:33:32 ground.
09:33:33 We have got a group that's ready, willing, and
09:33:35 financially able to build that project.
09:33:38 Let's let them move forward with that project.
09:33:43 Then the other proposals that have been considered, by
09:33:46 the National Guard board, were ranked lower than the
09:33:48 heritage square project.
09:33:51 They are not all feasible.
09:33:52 I'm a hockey player.
09:33:53 And I can tell you that putting a hockey rink in that
09:33:56 facility with one sheet of ice is not conducive to
09:34:00 league play.
09:34:01 It's going to have huge amounts of mechanical
09:34:04 equipment outside that's going to be disruptive to the
09:34:06 neighborhood.
09:34:07 And I can tell you, because my properties are all

09:34:09 adjacent to the armory.
09:34:11 I'm going to be one of the people who is most affected
09:34:13 by this whole project.
09:34:15 I'm here oh to support this group.
09:34:17 This group is a well established, strong group of
09:34:20 business people, and they are behind coast dental,
09:34:26 they have a bunch of savory business people running
09:34:28 the show over there and they'll get this project done.
09:34:30 I'm a huge supporter of it.
09:34:32 I think that it's a mistake to slow this project down.
09:34:38 We need a construction project.
09:34:40 We need jobs for residents of West Tampa.
09:34:42 It's the people that move into West Tampa, that build
09:34:46 offices, that have their offices there like me, that
09:34:50 care about this project.
09:34:51 Mr. Turanchik and what they have done with Intown
09:34:57 homes have been fantastic in trying to take and clean
09:34:59 up all the vacant lots.
09:35:00 On the seven lots I have been involved in, every
09:35:02 single one of those lots was vacant when I got
09:35:06 involved.
09:35:06 And this is since 2003.

09:35:08 And I just got my property tax bill, and I think it
09:35:10 was $8,000 for one of them.
09:35:13 So I think the City Council needs to make a decision,
09:35:16 which is not only financially responsible, doing
09:35:20 what's best for the City of Tampa, and for West Tampa,
09:35:22 but also socially responsible, taking and cleaning up
09:35:27 that area and putting a viable business and center
09:35:32 that will cause West Tampa to be a destination, not
09:35:35 just a place where people drive five minutes through
09:35:38 on their way to get to work, which on a related note,
09:35:42 the concept of changing --
09:35:45 (Bell sounds).
09:35:46 He if you can finish my sentence -- changing Howard
09:35:49 and Armenia to two way streets is outrageous and I
09:35:53 hope you don't do that.
09:35:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Just a point so we can move on.
09:35:57 Just to the speaker, this council hasn't taken any
09:35:59 action on heritage square.
09:36:01 We haven't slowed up anything.
09:36:03 Ding
09:36:08 We have not taken any action.
09:36:09 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.

09:36:10 If I can just make a statement before we move forward,
09:36:14 comment as relates to heritage square, the armory.
09:36:16 I do want to Lee mind council that currently pending
09:36:20 is an amendment to the land use map, and a rezoning.
09:36:24 And I just want to be very cautious in hearing any
09:36:27 comment as it relates to any of those pending items,
09:36:30 specifically what this project looks like and I just
09:36:33 want to --
09:36:35 >>CHAIRMAN: So you are saying we should not be talking
09:36:36 about the property at all?
09:36:38 >>JULIA COLE: I'm saying if any speaker in the
09:36:41 audience wants to get into the merits of either one of
09:36:43 those processes, the future land use amendment, or the
09:36:47 pending rezoning, then we need to stop that
09:36:52 conversation.
09:36:52 We should not be discussing those two pending the
09:36:56 processes that are in front of you.
09:36:58 >>GWEN MILLER: All right.
09:36:59 Thank you.
09:36:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I was going to echo the same
09:37:02 sentiment that our young attorney just told us,
09:37:04 because it's like having an operation without an

09:37:06 illness.
09:37:08 And we can't do both at the same time.
09:37:11 We are hearing evidence.
09:37:13 And we don't have nothing to pass in front of us.
09:37:16 Anything to pass in any one way or the other.
09:37:19 And I appreciate all of the attendance.
09:37:21 I'm sure this group got 400 people to come here this
09:37:24 morning.
09:37:24 That's the way West Tampa is.
09:37:26 We should be offering them a free cup of coffee.
09:37:29 So they are all here.
09:37:31 And we could have had out at Curtis Hixon.
09:37:39 I wanted to see if council members were awake.
09:37:41 But what I am saying is these things that are here
09:37:43 today, certainly I'm going to sit here and listen to
09:37:48 all 12 of you to speak but please don't speak on the
09:37:51 merits for or against something because we don't have
09:37:53 a petition here.
09:37:54 Later on that could be used the same thing against you
09:37:56 want done.
09:37:58 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to ask, I think we have
09:38:01 scheduled public hearing, the first reading for the

09:38:05 land use and for the rezoning, don't we?
09:38:08 Is it on the calendar?
09:38:11 Oh, it's not?
09:38:12 I was going to say we could tell you when -- I guess
09:38:15 not.
09:38:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think the caution from legal
09:38:20 counsel is prudent.
09:38:21 Excuse me, Bob, I'm sorry.
09:38:22 I think the caution is prudent.
09:38:24 So don't speak to the zoning.
09:38:26 Don't speak to land use change.
09:38:27 But you can speak to that armory, the armory board and
09:38:30 that selection process.
09:38:31 Because that is not a rezoning, that's not a public
09:38:36 hearing that's pending.
09:38:37 So with that guidance, please, carry on.
09:38:41 >>> With that in mind, I'm glad you clarified it.
09:38:44 Good morning, council members.
09:38:46 I'm Bob Garcia, Executive Director of the West Tampa
09:38:50 Chamber of Commerce.
09:38:50 And also as alluded, I'm, I believe, the only member
09:38:56 here, the only person here that was on the selection

09:38:58 committee that selected a heritage square as the
09:39:05 proposer of the plan for the armory.
09:39:06 >> And a good racquetball player, I might add.
09:39:10 >> Right.
09:39:11 We play racquetball a few times.
09:39:12 I don't want to say who won or anything.
09:39:15 Okay.
09:39:15 And I thank you for the opportunity for us to address
09:39:20 you regarding this matter.
09:39:22 The committee -- and that's what I am going to talk
09:39:24 about -- you should have received a letter from the
09:39:27 members of the chamber signed by me, the committee,
09:39:32 particular reasons why we feel heritage square should
09:39:34 be awarded the armory plan.
09:39:38 But the committee itself consisted of six members, two
09:39:42 from the National Guard, two from the city government
09:39:45 and two public citizens.
09:39:47 That was myself and Robert Allen.
09:39:50 And all the meetings were open to the public.
09:39:54 Anyone could attend.
09:39:56 The committee was under the auspices of Cindy Miller.
09:40:01 She's with the City of Tampa.

09:40:02 And we were given six proposals to evaluate.
09:40:05 And we were provided guidelines and criterias so that
09:40:08 everyone was on the same page via this evaluation.
09:40:13 As a result of this the committee had several meetings
09:40:18 before inviting all of these six entities to make a
09:40:23 life presentation to the committee regarding their
09:40:24 plans for the armory.
09:40:26 This meeting was held at the convention center, and I
09:40:30 would say was a meeting that lasted about ten hours.
09:40:33 At this meeting, the committee was given the
09:40:35 opportunity to question the proposals, they made like
09:40:43 proposals, very professional.
09:40:44 We were given the opportunity to question them.
09:40:47 Also at this time, the public was invited to make
09:40:50 comments concerning the proposal, and all of this
09:40:55 input was suggested by the committee in a very serious
09:40:59 manner, taking our responsibility very serious.
09:41:02 The final meeting was held, and the committee voted on
09:41:06 which proposal was best for the armory and the West
09:41:09 Tampa community.
09:41:12 And heritage square was overwhelmingly selected.
09:41:16 In fact, there were six votes.

09:41:17 They received all six votes, either two for first
09:41:22 place, the others were all first place votes.
09:41:24 So they didn't receive less than a first place vote
09:41:27 for their project.
09:41:29 The committee worked very hard and diligently, and
09:41:32 took their task very seriously.
09:41:35 Also, the proposal promises to respect the historic
09:41:39 nature of the site while bringing thousands of new
09:41:44 jobs and the first major retail and hotel development
09:41:53 in the Tampa community.
09:41:54 Therefore I strongly urge to you support the heritage
09:41:57 plan for the armory.
09:41:58 Thank you.
09:41:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
09:42:06 >>> Good morning, council.
09:42:07 My name is Marilyn Samaha.
09:42:11 My business is 3106 west north 8th street in West
09:42:15 Tampa.
09:42:16 Thank you for the opportunity this morning.
09:42:20 Specifically I am here to support the heritage square
09:42:23 proposal, and to honor the process that has been set
09:42:29 forth by the City of Tampa and the armory board.

09:42:36 I am a business owner, and I have been operating in
09:42:38 the West Tampa community for over 15 years.
09:42:42 Since November 2004, that's 2004, I have been actively
09:42:49 following the Fort Homer Hesterly project.
09:42:54 I have been attended and participating in numerous
09:42:58 open and transparent meetings, overseeing by the City
09:43:03 of Tampa.
09:43:04 And these meetings have included staff meetings, they
09:43:07 have included the review committee meetings that Bob
09:43:12 was speaking about, and the public comment meeting of
09:43:16 the Tampa convention center.
09:43:19 Additionally, I was one of five civilians that went to
09:43:24 the armory board State of Florida meeting in
09:43:28 St. Augustine March 2007.
09:43:32 To my knowledge, heritage square has accomplished the
09:43:35 goals identified by the City of Tampa and the armory
09:43:39 board, throughout the memorandum of understanding and
09:43:43 the RFP process.
09:43:45 That's clearly securing the number one ranked proposal
09:43:48 in the selection process.
09:43:51 The heritage square has complied with the City of
09:43:53 Tampa's directions diligently and in good faith.

09:43:58 They should be allowed to move forward with the term
09:44:00 and the condition of the agreement with the armory
09:44:03 board pursuant to their commitment to bring this new
09:44:07 economic project to West Tampa.
09:44:09 I appreciate it and thank you so much.
09:44:17 >>> Good morning, Madam Chairman, members of council.
09:44:19 My name is Ed Turanchik, principal of Intown Home,
09:44:24 also a member of the Board of Directors of the West
09:44:26 Tampa Chamber of Commerce, someone told me the first
09:44:32 Slovak member on the board of directors.
09:44:37 There is great news about West Tampa.
09:44:40 It is a community on the rise.
09:44:41 There are tremendous things going on there.
09:44:44 And the wonderful thing about it is that it's not
09:44:48 requiring taxpayer dollars to do it.
09:44:51 That sometimes is a source of grievance that the city
09:44:55 and county have not invested taxpayer dollars as much
09:44:57 in West Tampa as it has in East Tampa or Ybor City or
09:45:01 Central Park or Tampa Heights.
09:45:04 There's no CRA.
09:45:07 What's happening there is a resurrection that is
09:45:09 driven by private enterprise.

09:45:11 People taking risks.
09:45:13 And the city government, including this board and the
09:45:15 administration, respecting that in designing processes
09:45:19 that result in good product.
09:45:25 It's a great project.
09:45:28 I think what Intown homes is doing is a great project.
09:45:31 We won out standing award from the Planning Commission
09:45:33 and we all went through a process.
09:45:36 And I think this council recognized that there's
09:45:38 something unique happening here.
09:45:41 What also happened with the armory was a process that
09:45:44 this council, maybe not all the individual members of
09:45:46 this council knew about, but council institution alley
09:45:51 was aware, administration set up a very public process
09:45:54 to go out and solicit private sector proposals for the
09:45:57 redevelopment of the armory site, and guess what,
09:46:00 there were three great proposals that came with it.
09:46:03 Matt Hemrey group, Tampa digital was a fabulous deal,
09:46:09 heritage square was.
09:46:10 I'm glad I wasn't on that committee because unlike a
09:46:12 lot of things when you go out you get stuff that comes
09:46:15 back and you say, I hate 'em all.

09:46:17 Here you have three great proposals.
09:46:19 And the best man won.
09:46:21 The right proposal was selected that meets the
09:46:24 economic development plan in West Tampa, which this
09:46:28 council adopted unanimously.
09:46:30 And jobs, retail, cultural arts.
09:46:35 I'm amazed at the proposals out there that actually
09:46:38 does all those things.
09:46:40 Heritage square does.
09:46:43 More to the point, though, you engage the city engaged
09:46:46 in a process that should be respected and pursued to
09:46:50 its logical conclusion.
09:46:52 I will tell you, it has taken a massive risk, has made
09:46:57 a massive investment.
09:46:58 And I respect council's prerogative and duty to ask
09:47:02 questions about the project.
09:47:03 That's why we are here.
09:47:04 But what you are hearing us say, it would be a
09:47:07 terrible, terrible thing for council to say, didn't
09:47:13 like how the process went for the state to adjust
09:47:15 those kinds of things in the future, if you have
09:47:18 issues with how the administration does that, deal

09:47:20 with it prospectively.
09:47:22 But this process is where it is and to do anything
09:47:25 other than let that process go through where it needs
09:47:27 to be, pulls the rug out from under private
09:47:29 capitalists, sends a terrible message to the business
09:47:32 community that a proposer that doesn't win can come to
09:47:36 council and say, we don't like it, let's reconsider
09:47:39 it.
09:47:39 If you do that, I believe, and as a former elect
09:47:42 official, I think I have some experience about this,
09:47:44 that you would send a very, very bad message to
09:47:48 businesses saying there is nothing certain until the
09:47:51 end.
09:47:53 You can't redevelop cities that way.
09:47:56 On market of the marketing committee of the West Tampa
09:47:58 Chamber of Commerce we strongly encourage you to
09:48:00 embrace the process and do your job.
09:48:02 Thank you very much.
09:48:09 >>> Terry Neal, Tampa, Florida.
09:48:12 First of all, the pop concert was great Sunday night
09:48:15 and, boy, Charlie Miranda is a good conductor.
09:48:18 Should have been there.

09:48:20 I do want to mention one thing.
09:48:22 Item number 112 regarding moving of the spectrum, the
09:48:25 cables on the spectrum for Bright House.
09:48:29 I was a former chairman of the Tampa, Hillsborough
09:48:31 County cable advisory board during the contract
09:48:34 negotiation for Verizon.
09:48:35 One of the things that we insisted upon was the
09:48:38 spectrums for this channel, and HTV and the lower
09:48:44 spectrum.
09:48:45 If they get to move these, one of the things that was
09:48:47 important about this contract negotiations was that
09:48:49 the contracts were consistent across the board, no
09:48:51 discrimination between Comcast, Verizon, and Bright
09:48:55 House.
09:48:56 Letting them do this will set a precedent that will
09:48:59 let all of the other cable companies move their
09:49:01 channels.
09:49:01 We have to stop this.
09:49:03 It's discriminatory toward those who can't afford
09:49:09 desktop boxes at a higher cost.
09:49:12 As far as president of Temple Crest, I do want to
09:49:15 address item number 29 and 30.

09:49:17 The temporary wet zoning petitions for Busch Gardens,
09:49:21 for 1(COP-X) to sell beer, at the parks, I basically
09:49:26 have questions here.
09:49:28 These are for one-day wet zonings, but they are for
09:49:32 three days.
09:49:33 The first one starts tonight, on Thursday, Friday and
09:49:37 Saturday.
09:49:38 The next one that is requested, item number 30, is for
09:49:41 next weekend for Thursday, Friday and Saturday.
09:49:45 So I'm very concerned about that.
09:49:47 But there's also some other issues that I just need to
09:49:50 ask questions about.
09:49:52 This is being put on by -- this wet zoning is being
09:49:55 requested by the Busch conservation fund.
09:49:58 That's a nonprofit.
09:50:00 The Busch conservation fund, how is that all going to
09:50:04 work?
09:50:05 Is it separate ticketed events?
09:50:08 >> Point of order.
09:50:09 >>GWEN MILLER: This is on public hearings.
09:50:14 >> Consent agenda.
09:50:15 >>> So there are separate funds for the Busch

09:50:20 conservation fund, somebody purchasing a ticket for
09:50:24 green, attending an event sponsored by the Busch
09:50:26 conservation fund, can somebody decline to, you know,
09:50:30 contribute to the Busch conservation fund while they
09:50:32 are attending Howard's green and buying beer on the
09:50:35 property?
09:50:35 I don't quite understand this wet zoning.
09:50:38 Because they are requesting the wet zoning for the
09:50:40 entire property.
09:50:40 And basically just have questions about this.
09:50:45 It just kind of brings a question.
09:50:48 I'm not necessarily protesting it.
09:50:50 I'm just saying, what kind of gives with this?
09:50:52 We are kind of in uncharted territory here and I would
09:50:55 like some answers about that.
09:50:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Next.
09:51:02 >> Just a question about our process.
09:51:04 Are we going to wait until we hear from all the
09:51:07 public?
09:51:08 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
09:51:09 30 minutes.
09:51:10 >> Next speaker, you may come up.

09:51:13 >>> My name is Andrea Balbin, representing the Tampa
09:51:16 Bay brothers association, 2918 West Kennedy Boulevard.
09:51:20 I'm speaking this morning regarding agenda items 107
09:51:24 and 108, revised fee schedule for construction
09:51:28 services.
09:51:29 A letter was sent yesterday to you by TDBA, and I'm
09:51:34 here today to reiterate that support on the record.
09:51:38 Higher fees are always hard to follow, especially when
09:51:42 affordable housing is always an issue, and in the
09:51:44 middle of a tough market climate.
09:51:50 First, the construction services division did a great
09:51:52 job keeping industry informed, and all other
09:51:56 stakeholders informed on this issue.
09:51:59 The construction services division has also shown
09:52:03 increased efficiency, better service and faster
09:52:05 turnaround times over the past year and we would like
09:52:09 to see this customer service continue.
09:52:13 I would also highlight the enhanced fees to support a
09:52:17 construction process. This is particularly important
09:52:18 to the building industry because it helps deter
09:52:23 unlicensed contractors, and they also destroy the
09:52:28 reputation of true building professionals.

09:52:31 Finally, converting the division to a special use fund
09:52:33 is also a positive change for all of the parties
09:52:35 involved.
09:52:36 But we would like to see two things.
09:52:38 The first is the continuation of the stakeholder group
09:52:42 so that we can all have input into this process.
09:52:45 And secondly, we would like to see a commitment to the
09:52:47 hiring of a consultant, because that will ensure that
09:52:51 the fees established are fair across the board,
09:52:54 transparent, and reflects the cost to the city of
09:52:58 issuing that permit.
09:52:59 Thank you for your time this morning.
09:53:11 >>> Good morning.
09:53:12 My name is Leo Alvarez, a West Tampa resident, a oh
09:53:17 board of director on the West Tampa Chamber of
09:53:19 Commerce and I serve on the marketing committee of
09:53:20 West Tampa chamber, also.
09:53:23 I'm going to talk about item number 114 on the agenda,
09:53:25 the heritage project.
09:53:27 Basically, it's going to create jobs at all levels for
09:53:30 the area within the West Tampa area, provides West
09:53:34 Tampa with a promising presence present and future.

09:53:38 But at the same time preserving and teaching West
09:53:39 Tampa's past culture and heritage with a proposed
09:53:43 cultural arts and museum center with totally private
09:53:46 funding.
09:53:47 It creates an awareness of the West Tampa area, and
09:53:50 identity, a central location where locals such as
09:53:53 myself can shop, eat, and meet with family, neighbors,
09:53:58 friends, and business associates.
09:54:00 This will also be a tourist destination.
09:54:03 While tourists shop from out of town and visit and
09:54:07 stroll, you will get the feel of Tampa's past while
09:54:10 visiting our cultural arts and museum center, get a
09:54:16 feel of today's Tampa all at the same time.
09:54:17 The bottom line is West Tampa's Ybor is just as
09:54:20 important to Tampa as Tampa's early beginnings and
09:54:24 heritage in which we, Tampa natives and even
09:54:27 newcomers, should all be very proud of and want to
09:54:30 share with all.
09:54:31 Ybor City has received a very general use amount of
09:54:34 public funding for numerous projects and attention,
09:54:37 while West Tampa has not.
09:54:38 I applaud however the attention of funding Ybor has

09:54:40 received which it truly deserves.
09:54:42 However, West Tampa for decades has been on the back
09:54:45 burner.
09:54:46 And has just a rich heritage and culture as Ybor City.
09:54:51 Speaking as a Tampa resident, a life-long third
09:54:54 generation West Tampa resident, still living and
09:54:58 working in West Tampa, this is a golden opportunity
09:55:01 for the West Tampa area and the City of Tampa with
09:55:04 private funding.
09:55:07 Let's make it happen together.
09:55:08 Thank you.
09:55:09 Leo Alvarez.
09:55:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Next.
09:55:13 >>> Good morning.
09:55:16 My name is Michael la villa.
09:55:18 I'm the vice-president and general manager of the
09:55:21 development group.
09:55:21 By way of background, I know that most of you if not
09:55:24 all of you are familiar with the project that the
09:55:27 development group is undertaking in the West Tampa
09:55:29 area.
09:55:29 The west end Tampa project looks to revitalize that

09:55:34 community very similar to the way heritage square
09:55:37 does.
09:55:38 For that reason and many of the reasons that you
09:55:40 already heard stated by others more eloquently than I
09:55:43 could, that we stand shoulder to shoulder with the
09:55:47 Intown development group with the way they presented
09:55:50 it, for all of the value that they stated, all of the
09:55:53 contributions they intend upon making and for all the
09:55:56 reasons that you also heard and you will hear in the
09:55:59 future on this topic I'm sure.
09:56:01 So in an effort to keep it short and sweet I would
09:56:03 just like to say that is our position at Moran
09:56:08 development group and hope you vote for this project.
09:56:10 >>
09:56:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thanks for your brevity.
09:56:14 Mr. Scott mentioned we are going to try to limit these
09:56:16 to 30 minutes, so to the extent that it's redundant
09:56:19 and in support of that project, help us out.
09:56:21 Thank you.
09:56:26 >>> Good morning.
09:56:27 My name is Neal Armstrong.
09:56:28 I'm a South Tampa resident.

09:56:30 And I work down the street from fort Hesterly.
09:56:35 I have a little different concern on this.
09:56:37 I think they all are good project ideas.
09:56:39 My main concern, and the one that's slated number one
09:56:43 right now, I'm not aware that a feasibility study has
09:56:46 been done.
09:56:48 I have been in commercial evaluation for close to 25
09:56:53 years and done a lot of work on hotels, and I would
09:56:56 suggest that a feasibility study come forth to prove
09:57:01 that this is indeed a feasible idea.
09:57:04 Hotels in general under certain economic conditions,
09:57:09 what I call the first to go and the last to come back.
09:57:13 I don't know that this is a five-star location for a
09:57:16 hotel.
09:57:17 So I have some concern there.
09:57:22 >>JULIA COLE: I need to interrupt.
09:57:24 As I indicated, to talk about the merits of the
09:57:29 project, I think the only issue before council today
09:57:31 for any form of discussion relates to process at all.
09:57:34 The project in and of itself --
09:57:38 >>> all right.
09:57:39 Again I wasn't talking about land use or rezoning.

09:57:41 I'm just talking about an idea.
09:57:42 So I will stop on that.
09:57:47 I was also a bit surprised.
09:57:49 I have been involved with this from day one.
09:57:51 And initially it was a review committee that was
09:57:55 presented.
09:57:55 We are not selecting, we are reviewing and so forth.
09:57:58 At the end of that meeting and afterwards, it turned
09:58:00 into a selection committee.
09:58:02 And then they rank, and somehow you pick one person to
09:58:07 work with.
09:58:08 I don't understand how that process works.
09:58:10 The other idea is fort Hesterly itself, cultural arts
09:58:17 are important, but also the use, it's been brought up
09:58:22 that a hockey rink was an idea.
09:58:25 I would like it to be known that the YMCA signed on
09:58:29 with that so you are not talking about a
09:58:30 single-purpose hockey facility, you are talking about
09:58:33 a YMCA full-scale multi-use deal that everywhere in
09:58:38 Tampa I have seen a YMCA go it's a great benefit to
09:58:41 the community.
09:58:43 That's all I have to share.

09:58:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Next.
09:58:50 >>> Good morning, council.
09:58:51 My name is Jennifer Agana, I'm an athletic, a hockey
09:58:56 player, a hockey mom, a USA certified hockey referee,
09:58:59 and I'm here as a passionate sports advocate.
09:59:03 And I receive no financial gain by being here.
09:59:06 Hockey is a misunderstood sport and I know why when my
09:59:10 son, let me tell awe little story, when he was six
09:59:13 years old, he saw the movie mighty duck, and all he
09:59:15 wanted to do after that was play hockey.
09:59:18 And my initial thought was, no way.
09:59:22 It's a violent sport, you are going to get injured.
09:59:25 But he persisted.
09:59:27 Finally, I signed him up for ice skating lessons and
09:59:31 after watching how much fun he was having on the ice,
09:59:33 I started taking lessons, too, along with my daughter
09:59:37 and my husband.
09:59:39 Going to the ice rink became a family event, and
09:59:43 Sunday's public skate is a tradition that my kids will
09:59:46 take with them into adulthood.
09:59:49 When we started playing hockey, we learned that hockey
09:59:54 is a highly skilled game.

09:59:56 Game is taught of coordination, how to manage emotion,
09:59:59 how to support coaches and referees, and personally,
10:00:04 hockey has taught me teamwork.
10:00:09 Being in the business world, hockey showed me another
10:00:11 angle to that.
10:00:12 I have always supported and encourage my own children
10:00:16 to play sports and develop healthy habits that
10:00:19 continues throughout their lives.
10:00:22 Through sports, they learn teamwork, good
10:00:24 sportsmanship and responsibility that comes with
10:00:27 attending practices and games.
10:00:30 For many children, teams enable them to stay
10:00:33 physically active on a regular basis.
10:00:36 And according to the American physical therapy
10:00:39 association, a current trend of adolescence toward the
10:00:43 more sedentary life-style could contribute to future
10:00:46 health problems such as heart disease and obesity.
10:00:50 There are also psychological as well as physical
10:00:53 benefits to keeping fit.
10:00:56 Building self-esteem, camaraderie, and developing
10:01:00 problem-solving skills are a few of the bonuses that
10:01:03 kids will receive through team sports.

10:01:06 According to a recent U.S. surgeon general report on
10:01:09 physical -- physical activity and health, kids between
10:01:14 12 and 21 are not physically active on a regular
10:01:17 basis.
10:01:20 Daily enrollment in physical education classes has
10:01:24 declined 41% among high school students in the last
10:01:28 five years.
10:01:30 Team sports can combat a downward spiral for its
10:01:34 increasing population of inactive kids.
10:01:39 YMCA sports facility and ice rink, team sports can be
10:01:50 learned there, public skating is an activity that can
10:01:52 be enjoyed by anyone.
10:01:53 I like seeing kids spending time having fun at public
10:01:57 skating rather than hanging out doing nothing.
10:01:59 It's a great way to exercise and have fun.
10:02:09 Sports, like golf and hockey, there is a false
10:02:13 perception that hockey is an upper class sports and in
10:02:16 reality anyone can get involved assuming there's a
10:02:18 facility to help promote it.
10:02:21 Now is the time.
10:02:22 This is the opportunity.
10:02:24 And I urge you to place an inner city sports facility

10:02:30 and hockey rink at the armory.
10:02:33 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, you are approaching your
10:02:34 half hour point for public comment.
10:02:36 What is council's pleasure?
10:02:37 Does it wish to proceed?
10:02:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Madam Chair, I move to waive the
10:02:42 rules to take this to one minute per person till all
10:02:47 the good folks, our good citizens, have completed
10:02:50 their comments.
10:02:51 Hopefully that looks like it will be about 15 more
10:02:54 minutes.
10:02:56 And then after that we need to work on our procedure
10:02:58 and our announcements a little bit.
10:03:00 For now folks did come down here this morning, they
10:03:03 want to say their piece.
10:03:04 Let's give them one minute each and get through this.
10:03:06 And that's my motion.
10:03:07 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'll second Mr. Dingfelder's
10:03:10 motion, council chair, due to the fact that they came
10:03:12 down with good intentions, and we certainly are
10:03:14 listening to them.
10:03:15 But it has been sort of repetitious to some point.

10:03:19 And we have heard most of it.
10:03:22 The last speaker was certainly different than the
10:03:24 rest.
10:03:25 When I played hockey, it was on a vacant lot, a
10:03:28 parking lot.
10:03:29 And I enjoyed it.
10:03:30 And we all hung out playing hockey.
10:03:34 Skating.
10:03:35 Some of us had skates.
10:03:36 Some of us didn't have skates.
10:03:39 >>MARY MULHERN: I just wanted to say, in the future, I
10:03:41 don't know, maybe none of you will be here in the
10:03:43 future, but if we had seen how many people wanted to
10:03:45 speak, we could have limited it to one minute.
10:03:48 So it would have been fair in the first place.
10:03:50 So people need to stand up if they want to speak so we
10:03:53 get a sense of how many people need to talk.
10:03:57 >>THOMAS SCOTT: That's why a sign-up would have told
10:03:59 you.
10:03:59 You would have saw that.
10:04:02 When you sign up, and you would have saw that, you
10:04:04 would have known that.

10:04:05 Secondly, let me just say, all of the speakers,
10:04:10 speaking on a subject that council had no purview.
10:04:15 Really the issue that's before us is not the
10:04:18 selection.
10:04:19 That's not our role.
10:04:20 So speaking to the issues that we have no jurisdiction
10:04:23 over.
10:04:23 The only question council has is the issue of process.
10:04:27 All this other stuff you all are talking about,
10:04:31 council doesn't have anything to do with that.
10:04:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Again per council's rules if anybody
10:04:35 wishes to have their full three minutes they can
10:04:36 always come back at the end of the meeting if they
10:04:38 wish to speak.
10:04:40 >>CHAIRMAN: We have a motion and second that each
10:04:43 person speak one minute.
10:04:44 All in favor of that motion say Aye.
10:04:46 Opposed, Nay.
10:04:47 The next speaker?
10:04:52 >>> Thank you.
10:04:53 My name is Meg Fernandez.
10:04:55 And I would like to thank all of you very much for

10:04:57 giving us our one minute.
10:05:00 I will speak to the process.
10:05:04 I am, I believe, representing many of the parents and
10:05:06 families that have been involved in the process all
10:05:10 along.
10:05:10 My vested interest is to see a recreational facility
10:05:13 there.
10:05:15 All six proposals were great proposals.
10:05:18 The top three, you know, very similar.
10:05:23 The reason that I would be in favor of the heritage is
10:05:25 of course because of the recreational facility,
10:05:27 because I look at this.
10:05:29 There is a neighborhood there.
10:05:30 Yes, it's a cut-through street but it is a
10:05:32 neighborhood. Anyway, in speaking to the process,
10:05:35 when we all went to the meeting where they are going
10:05:37 to vote on the proposals in the early spring, all of
10:05:40 us went in to be that meeting with the understanding
10:05:42 that there were six proposals.
10:05:45 They were going to vote on the top three, and that the
10:05:49 top three would then be allowed to go through the due
10:05:52 diligence.

10:05:53 And then it would go through some other evaluation.
10:05:56 Well, for some reason, and I don't know when it
10:05:59 happened, but during the meeting, somehow that turned,
10:06:03 and ended up being one proposal that was then
10:06:07 encouraged and allowed to go through the due diligence
10:06:10 and present financials, et cetera.
10:06:12 At that meeting, I don't think any of these
10:06:15 development proposals presented any financials, any
10:06:20 feasible studies.
10:06:21 It was all conceptual.
10:06:22 (Bell sounds).
10:06:24 So you have my point.
10:06:25 Thank you.
10:06:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Next.
10:06:29 >>> Good morning.
10:06:33 I don't know if I'm allowed to talk.
10:06:36 This is the closure at Beach Park.
10:06:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We have to wait till we get to that
10:06:43 item.
10:06:47 >>> My name is Richard Fermica to speak on items 29
10:06:53 and 30, the temporary wet zoning at Busch Gardens and
10:06:56 what I have to say does not meet quasi-judicial

10:06:58 standards.
10:07:00 I'm utterly amazed how quickly a nonprofit the Sea
10:07:05 World and Busch Gardens seeks to have these temporary
10:07:09 wet zonings.
10:07:09 Their requests for these permits had to be issued not
10:07:11 later than the third of this month, 15 days before the
10:07:14 hearing.
10:07:14 Yet on the 8th of the month, Mr. Brown speaking
10:07:17 before our association, did not acknowledge the
10:07:20 existence of this nonprofit entity when it was
10:07:24 suggested to him that the temporary wet zoning might
10:07:26 be an acceptable alternative to the neighborhood
10:07:29 instead of permanent wet zoning for the entire park.
10:07:34 Since the park is to be considered for the wet zoning,
10:07:37 albeit temporarily, does the permit include
10:07:39 appropriate waivers for distances too close to
10:07:41 residences, government buildings, and an existing
10:07:43 package store?
10:07:45 I guess there should be 13 waivers for these other
10:07:48 structures.
10:07:50 Next question.
10:07:51 Does the permitting, permits for this nonprofit

10:07:55 entity, means Busch Gardens is letting the customer
10:07:57 use the permitted facilities for free?
10:08:01 Lastly I noticed in the agenda there are two separate
10:08:03 one-day requests.
10:08:05 Six days are involved.
10:08:06 I wish this could be explained.
10:08:08 Thank you.
10:08:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:08:11 Next.
10:08:16 >>> Good morning.
10:08:17 My name is Betty J. Bell.
10:08:19 I live at 3003 Star Street, Tampa, Florida 33605.
10:08:24 I'm here this morning because we received a letter in
10:08:27 our neighborhood concerning wet zoning for USA --
10:08:33 50th and Melbourne.
10:08:34 >>GWEN MILLER: That is a public hearing, Marty?
10:08:41 >> 137.
10:08:42 >>CHAIRMAN: Received a letter.
10:08:44 It's a public hearing.
10:08:45 You can't speak on it now.
10:08:46 You have to wait till we come to that number.
10:08:48 >> All right, thank you.

10:08:50 >>GWEN MILLER: All right.
10:08:53 >>> My name is Nancy Kipnis. I'm here to speak to you
10:09:02 this morning about Arte 2007. Tampa Bay Festival of
10:09:02 Latin Americas.
10:09:03 Arte is a biennial celebration for the performing and
10:09:07 visual arts from Latin America. Arte affirms Tampa
10:09:10 Bay's cross-cultural heritage and its modern role as a
10:09:13 gateway to the Americas.
10:09:14 Arte is a collaboration of entities.
10:09:17 It includes the City of Tampa, arts council of
10:09:21 Hillsborough County, city of Clearwater, greater Tampa
10:09:23 Chamber of Commerce, Hillsborough County tourist
10:09:25 development council, Tampa Bay business committee for
10:09:27 the arts, Tampa Bay CDB, downtown partnership, and the
10:09:32 Ybor City Chamber of Commerce.
10:09:34 Arte is a collaboration of arts and cultural venues
10:09:36 and includes participation from the Arts Center in
10:09:39 St. Pete, Bleu Acier, Cigar Heritage Festival, Conga
10:09:43 Caliente, Downtown Live After Five, Eckerd College,
10:09:46 Florida Aquarium, Florida Craftsmen, Florida Museum of
10:09:47 Photographic Arts, Gallery Flight 19, Gulf Coast
10:09:52 Museum of Art, Hillsborough Community college, TICH

10:09:56 Festival, Museum of Fine Arts St. Pete, Caladium
10:10:00 Theater, Polk Museum, Ruth Eckerd hall, Tampa Artist
10:10:03 Emporium, Tampa Bay performing Arts Center, Tampa
10:10:06 Theatre, Tampa Museum of Art, USF Contemporary Art
10:10:09 Museum, USF and its entities, University of Tampa,
10:10:13 Salvador Dali Museum, 2007 National Export District
10:10:16 Council Conference, Visual Edge Studios, WEDU, West
10:10:21 Tampa Library, and WMNF.
10:10:24 Budget 2007 is a product of the surging --
10:10:27 (Bell sounds).
10:10:28 Am I done?
10:10:29 Anyway, we just hope that you support the festival.
10:10:31 It will be here November 3rd through 17.
10:10:37 Thank you.
10:10:37 >>> Truett Gardner, 101 South Franklin, here on item
10:10:42 number 2 on your agenda, which is a wet zoning.
10:10:45 And wanted to ask for special consideration to have
10:10:48 that moved up to December 6th.
10:10:49 We were originally going to be heard --
10:10:50 >>GWEN MILLER: Item number what again?
10:10:53 >> 92.
10:10:54 We were originally going to be heard on the 15th

10:10:57 but because of a change in your scheduling as well as
10:11:01 application in the legal we got pushed back, and I
10:11:05 wouldn't be asking for it, but we have tenants that
10:11:08 are anxious to get in there and they want to feel
10:11:10 secure about the wet zoning.
10:11:12 Secondly, we have always viewed the city as a partner
10:11:15 in the revitalization of downtown, and this would be a
10:11:17 big step in that direction.
10:11:18 >>GWEN MILLER: You want November --
10:11:20 >>> I'm sorry, December 6th.
10:11:23 November 15th was our original date.
10:11:25 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:11:27 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
10:11:29 Opposed, Nay.
10:11:29 (Motion carried)
10:11:35 >>MARGARET VIZZI: 213 South Sherill.
10:11:37 Very quickly on three items.
10:11:39 First of all you will be doing the first reading on
10:11:40 the sign code, the two changes, and as a member of the
10:11:47 committee I know we have had concern about the
10:11:50 changing of the lighted signs, those rotating signs.
10:11:55 I try to talk fast.

10:11:57 I can't.
10:11:58 I would ask council that maybe you suggest making it
10:12:02 every 15 minutes instead of every five.
10:12:05 But that's very quickly where my concern is on that
10:12:09 issue, as far as the Bright House issue, I hope that
10:12:12 council can do something about keeping channel 15
10:12:15 where it belongs, on it, and the Verizon channel, to
10:12:23 come forward.
10:12:24 And I also have a concern.
10:12:25 I spoke earlier to the Busch Gardens wet zoning of the
10:12:28 entire property.
10:12:32 The gentleman before me said it is really six days,
10:12:38 two events, I think, three days on your agenda, and I
10:12:42 don't know what the answer to that was.
10:12:44 But I still feel that wet zoning that entire park with
10:12:49 children and teenagers, especially who go there alone,
10:12:54 is just not right.
10:12:54 So please, I don't know what the outcome of that whole
10:12:57 thing will be.
10:12:58 But even look at the entire park.
10:13:01 I would encourage you to do so.
10:13:03 Thank you.

10:13:15 >>MOSES KNOTT, JR.: I reside at 2902 East Ellicott
10:13:18 street three nights a week and I thank God for his
10:13:20 grace and his mercy.
10:13:21 And I got one minute to speak?
10:13:25 I want to speak on business.
10:13:26 Now here I go again.
10:13:32 I been at this podium 30-some years but I'm still
10:13:35 waiting, then I'll speak on, but this morning all the
10:13:40 feedback what they was talking about.
10:13:42 So tell me this morning I ain't got but one minute.
10:13:44 I think that's violating.
10:13:53 Okay, three minutes.
10:13:54 Okay.
10:13:56 [ Laughter ]
10:14:00 But anyway, I'm not going to say anything about West
10:14:02 Tampa.
10:14:05 That's not in my neighborhood.
10:14:07 But what I want to speak about is the TV thing.
10:14:09 This is a terrible thing here if this happens.
10:14:12 I represent the poor peoples, and nobody wants that
10:14:17 job except me.
10:14:18 But I tell these peoples all over the world, I say you

10:14:20 don't have but two things going for you.
10:14:27 You don't have nothing else left.
10:14:28 But they got channel 15 there and all of the community
10:14:33 channels and everything.
10:14:34 But they move this Inc. thing up to 600 they are going
10:14:37 to wipe them out.
10:14:38 What I'm saying is they can't afford it.
10:14:44 It's about 39 and it will be about $50 when they get
10:14:47 through it.
10:14:48 But 100 and some dollars.
10:14:52 (Bell sounds).
10:14:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Finish your statement.
10:14:54 >> Costs $100 some for the full package.
10:14:58 Most of them can't afford the $16.
10:15:02 They can't afford it.
10:15:03 But what I am saying, you all have to head this thing
10:15:07 off.
10:15:07 You all represent us.
10:15:08 But it's going to wipe all the poor peoples out.
10:15:11 It's going to wipe me out.
10:15:13 You know, all I got is cable TV.
10:15:16 You know, I love to watch City Council, county and

10:15:19 everything.
10:15:19 It will wipe me out.
10:15:20 You know, I don't know -- nobody is going to know
10:15:24 what's going on.
10:15:25 You would be surprised what channel 15 has did for the
10:15:27 community, let them have communication with you all
10:15:31 and the city.
10:15:31 You would be surprised.
10:15:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:15:37 Next speaker.
10:15:40 >>> Bob Smith, I'm owner of an electric sign company,
10:15:44 to talk on 104.
10:15:45 Mr. Dingfelder, at the last meeting we had with you on
10:15:47 September 30th there was a gentleman in the
10:15:49 audience come up and he owned an electronic sign and
10:15:52 you were very attentive to him.
10:15:56 You asked him would he be happy to have his electronic
10:15:58 sign change once every five minutes.
10:16:00 And he says, that's better than once every 24 hours.
10:16:03 If you would have said to him, would you be happy to
10:16:05 have it every six second he would have said the same
10:16:08 thing.

10:16:12 Mr. Dingfelder, you and the rest of the City Council
10:16:14 members, how did you come up with five minutes?
10:16:16 I have got to know this.
10:16:17 Did you gather information from electric sign codes
10:16:20 and cities and counties that surround us?
10:16:22 Number two, did you get in contact with the federal
10:16:25 highway commission, Hillsborough County Sheriff's
10:16:28 Department, City of Tampa police department, to see if
10:16:31 there's been any accidents that happened because of
10:16:33 these signs?
10:16:37 Did you get any information from electrical sign
10:16:39 contractors such as myself?
10:16:43 We know what the people want.
10:16:44 And ask us, what are the people asking when they talk
10:16:47 to you about having electronic sign?
10:16:50 I want to tell you the answer to these three questions
10:16:52 is no, no, and no.
10:16:54 What's even worse, every one of you council members
10:16:58 jumped right on it and seconded that motion of five
10:17:00 minutes.
10:17:01 Tell me this is not the way City Council does
10:17:03 business.

10:17:04 It just can't be.
10:17:07 I do have a solution.
10:17:09 I will take my time, and one of your employees' time,
10:17:12 and -- are you going to cut me off?
10:17:15 (Bell sounds).
10:17:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
10:17:21 Mr. Miranda has a question.
10:17:22 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I would appreciate if anyone in the
10:17:23 audience, and I'm sure in good cause, if they speak
10:17:30 about me I'm going to walk out.
10:17:35 If they call and I'm not speaking but, I'm speaking
10:17:37 about the whole deal that's coming up, and the
10:17:39 people's time and the audience, you want to talk about
10:17:41 me call me on the phone.
10:17:42 If you want to address the council that's what we are
10:17:44 here for.
10:17:44 But to single it.
10:17:46 Out one member, I don't think Thee that's right.
10:17:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Charlie, I appreciate.
10:17:51 That but I'm okay.
10:17:53 Bob, I just did want to rebut real quick and explain
10:17:56 what I felt I was doing, because this is a legislative

10:17:59 body.
10:18:00 And legislative bodies sometimes have to reach
10:18:01 compromises.
10:18:02 And what I saw happening was I heard some people on
10:18:05 council saying they didn't want -- they wanted that
10:18:09 change to be once an hour, okay, once every 30
10:18:11 minutes, once an hour, that sort of thing.
10:18:13 Other council members were comfortable with what you
10:18:15 guys were proposing which is basically continual
10:18:18 change.
10:18:19 Okay.
10:18:19 So I thought that going five minutes was somewhat of a
10:18:22 compromise.
10:18:22 We all agreed that we can revisit it down the road and
10:18:25 we very well might.
10:18:26 Because you are in a changing industry.
10:18:28 And I'm not looking for any response back.
10:18:30 I'm just pointing out that that is my recollection of
10:18:33 what we did.
10:18:33 I think it was a fair compromise at the time.
10:18:36 And we'll see how it goes.
10:18:38 And then we'll come back and visit it another day.

10:18:40 And thank you, Bob.
10:18:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker.
10:18:45 >>> Thank you for your time.
10:18:46 My name is Tony Stewart.
10:18:47 And I am the pastor at university church of God here
10:18:51 in Tampa.
10:18:52 And I represent 1600 members.
10:18:54 And I would like to speak on behalf of item 104, the
10:18:58 sign change.
10:18:58 We have an electric sign.
10:19:01 And the performing arts center that is owned by the
10:19:03 city changes constantly.
10:19:04 The aquarium that is owned by the city changes
10:19:06 constantly.
10:19:09 The Tampa Bay Performing Arts Center changes
10:19:11 constantly.
10:19:12 The state owned USF which is close to us, Go Bulls,
10:19:16 and they change constantly.
10:19:19 We are just asking, we are on 275 between Fowler and
10:19:23 Busch, it helps us promote our ministry, it helps us
10:19:26 promote our youth functions.
10:19:28 The state highway administration did a study and says

10:19:33 they find no stats that say changing signs causes
10:19:37 accidents and that those -- I know our congregation
10:19:40 spent a lot of money on our sign.
10:19:42 And we would be in favor of it being equal to what the
10:19:45 city does.
10:19:46 Our 1600 members support our city with their taxes,
10:19:51 and we think fair is fair, and we speak in favor of it
10:19:55 becoming equal across the board.
10:19:57 So thank you for your time.
10:20:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
10:20:01 >>> Good morning.
10:20:07 David hickey and I have a hard time standing up and
10:20:10 that's why I didn't stand up at the beginning to get
10:20:12 my full three minutes.
10:20:13 I'm sorry you are limiting it now to one minute.
10:20:15 I don't know what I can do in one minute.
10:20:17 But, anyway, I'm over 80 years old.
10:20:22 But, anyway, I have some of my things prepared that I
10:20:28 can give to you there.
10:20:29 Most of it is self-explanatory.
10:20:31 All the things that the gentleman before me apply.
10:20:34 This morning you approved an item number 7 for the

10:20:37 aquarium budget.
10:20:39 Are you going to outlaw their sign also?
10:20:42 Because they spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on
10:20:45 that sign.
10:20:47 And it doesn't make sense for that.
10:20:49 What you are doing here, you have my prepared stuff
10:20:53 there.
10:20:54 The other item.
10:20:56 A one-time business investment, usually they put a
10:20:59 small down payment, small business, and then there's
10:21:01 no further cost.
10:21:04 What the board is competing with is the newspaper
10:21:07 because once you have a message board you don't have
10:21:09 to run a lot of these expensive ads in the newspaper.
10:21:13 It's good for small business.
10:21:15 We don't have to have -- go out to the malls.
10:21:21 Message boards do not affect the environment.
10:21:23 We don't use message boards don't use trees, which the
10:21:27 print media does.
10:21:29 This is the biggest competitor that is there.
10:21:32 And they are in the background, would love to outlaw
10:21:35 message boards because then the only way you can do

10:21:36 it, you have got to go out and buy space in the
10:21:39 newspaper.
10:21:40 Thank you very much.
10:21:40 And you have some of my comments that I was going to
10:21:43 say.
10:21:45 And I'm sorry that I didn't get up earlier.
10:21:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else like to speak?
10:21:49 >>> Pardon?
10:21:52 >>GWEN MILLER: I'm asking, would anyone else like to
10:21:54 speak?
10:21:54 We now go to our item number 3.
10:21:57 Ordinance for first reading.
10:21:58 Mrs. Saul-Sena, would you read that, please?
10:22:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA:
10:22:07 >> Move an ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida
10:22:09 amending ordinance 2007-141 by correcting a
10:22:12 scrivener's error providing the graphic insert diagram
10:22:15 6.2 for section 27-126 accessory structures providing
10:22:19 for repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing
10:22:21 for severability, providing an effective date.
10:22:22 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
10:22:23 (Motion carried)

10:22:25 >>THE CLERK: Just for the record, the second reading
10:22:31 will occur on November 1st at 9:30 in the morning.
10:22:35 >> Would anyone else in the public like to request a
10:22:38 legislative consideration?
10:22:39 Reconsideration?
10:22:41 Would anyone like to request a reconsideration?
10:22:44 Okay.
10:22:44 We now go to our committee reports.
10:22:47 Public safety.
10:22:49 Reverend Scott.
10:22:49 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Madam Chair, I would like to move
10:22:54 items 4 through 6, please.
10:22:56 >> Second.
10:22:56 (Motion carried).
10:23:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Parks, recreation, Linda Saul-Sena.
10:23:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move resolutions 7
10:23:04 through 10.
10:23:05 >> Second.
10:23:05 (Motion carried).
10:23:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I would like to move items 11
10:23:11 through 19.
10:23:12 >> Second.

10:23:13 (Motion carried).
10:23:18 >>CHAIRMAN: Finance Committee, Mr. John Dingfelder.
10:23:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: With the substitute on item 20, I
10:23:22 will move items 20 through 38.
10:23:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
10:23:27 (Motion carried).
10:23:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Building and zoning.
10:23:33 Vice chair, Reverend Scott.
10:23:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I would like to move item 39
10:23:38 through -- through 73, Madam Chair.
10:23:57 Substitution on 53.
10:23:58 Thank you.
10:24:00 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: We have already voted on it but
10:24:02 there is an interesting question raised on items 29
10:24:05 and 30 about the clarification of the Busch Gardens
10:24:09 and Sea World conservation fund.
10:24:11 And we kind of sailed through there and approved the
10:24:15 one-day wet zonings.
10:24:16 I'm not asking us to change the vote.
10:24:18 I just wonder if we could have some clarification on
10:24:22 the issue raised by the neighborhood person, which was
10:24:31 29 and 30.

10:24:33 >> Point of order.
10:24:34 We have a vote.
10:24:35 We need to come back.
10:24:37 >> I said we already voted on it.
10:24:38 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion on the floor.
10:24:40 You have to wait.
10:24:42 Did we get a second?
10:24:43 >> Second.
10:24:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
10:24:45 (Motion carried)
10:24:47 Now, Mrs. Saul-Sena, you want an explanation for 29?
10:24:49 >> Thank you.
10:24:50 And I think when Nancy Kipnis spoke about.
10:24:56 K. she forgot to give us the little write-up there.
10:24:59 Pass them around.
10:25:00 So my question is on 29 and 30.
10:25:03 And the question raised by someone in the audience
10:25:06 asking for clarification of how exactly does this
10:25:10 nonprofit differ from the regular way that Busch
10:25:14 Gardens worked?
10:25:15 I wonder if someone could clarify that.
10:25:17 >>CHAIRMAN: Is there anyone here to clarify that?

10:25:20 >>REBECCA KERT: Could you repeat the question?
10:25:26 >> Did you hear the question raised by Mr. Neal?
10:25:29 >>> I was walking downstairs.
10:25:30 I heard the beginning part of it.
10:25:31 I didn't hear his entire question.
10:25:35 >> I will attempt.
10:25:36 It would be better if you had heard him. Anyway, he
10:25:38 was trying to clarify the difference between this
10:25:40 particular request for a one-day temporary and the
10:25:44 usual hollow scream thing going on now, how do you
10:25:49 recognize this as being separate from that?
10:25:51 >>> Well, this is separate, and the money will have to
10:25:54 be dedicated to a not-for-profit.
10:25:56 It's my understanding that they are asking to allow
10:25:58 the sale for beer during these events, and the T
10:26:03 request coming later is for full liquor with some
10:26:06 conditions placed on it.
10:26:07 And at the current time they are not allowed to have
10:26:09 beer at the park.
10:26:10 So that's why they would be requesting --
10:26:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Only a nonprofit can ask for
10:26:20 temporary wet zonings.

10:26:21 >>> Exactly.
10:26:22 And all the money that's earned will be given to that
10:26:24 not for profit.
10:26:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: This has been going on for some
10:26:29 time.
10:26:29 When I was here past a couple of times ago, do we ever
10:26:34 audit these nonprofits? Do we ever audit the people
10:26:37 applying for them?
10:26:38 Because at one time we didn't do any of the two.
10:26:41 Kert considerate we do require they provide proof.
10:26:44 But they are a not-for-profit.
10:26:47 As far as follow-up auditing, we do not.
10:26:50 They do have to have get a state license.
10:26:53 I'm not aware of whether the state follows up with it.
10:27:00 >> I mean, not on this specific item but since it's
10:27:05 being discussed, if we allow a corporate individual to
10:27:10 have their property used for a nonprofit, and in this
10:27:14 case a nonprofit is not even named, and you have that
10:27:19 and you have the event, and you can't say, we don't
10:27:23 follow up and say you use 467 gallons of beer at so
10:27:29 much money and this is what you bought it for and how
10:27:30 much money is left over and where the money went.

10:27:33 That's not that?
10:27:35 >>REBECCA KERT: No, we rely upon their application
10:27:39 that they will in fact give the money to the
10:27:40 non-for-profit.
10:27:43 >> I will be changing my vote in the future.
10:27:47 >>CHAIRMAN: Now we go to the transportation committee.
10:27:51 Mary Mulhern.
10:27:52 >>MARY MULHERN: I move items number 74 through 85.
10:27:55 >> Second.
10:27:56 (Motion carried).
10:28:03 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll move items to set public
10:28:05 hearings for items 88 through 91.
10:28:09 93 through 100.
10:28:17 (Motion carried).
10:28:17 >> We now go to our staff reports.
10:28:20 Item number 103.
10:28:22 The resolutions.
10:28:24 We need to move.
10:28:25 >> So move resolution, traffic enforcement.
10:28:30 >> Second.
10:28:32 (Motion carried).
10:28:33 >>CHAIRMAN: 104.

10:28:41 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
10:28:42 Pursuant to the conversation which we had regarding
10:28:45 the sign code, at second reading, I believe it was
10:28:48 three or four weeks ago, I went ahead and made the
10:28:50 appropriate changes to the code, specifically I
10:28:55 removed the provisions as they related to the limited
10:28:57 window signs.
10:28:58 I clarified that for a government sign, that it is
10:29:02 only for the identification of a public facility.
10:29:05 There is some language in there.
10:29:07 And it may have been interpreted to be a much
10:29:09 broader -- the intent was only to be for the
10:29:13 identification of a public facility.
10:29:15 And the third thing that I have done is I have gone
10:29:17 ahead and actually created under be the provisions for
10:29:23 electronic message centers.
10:29:24 I provided that they can run at a five minute time
10:29:29 frame.
10:29:29 I have also provided, consistent with the signage that
10:29:32 is for commercial signs that are on arterial or
10:29:38 collector roadways, for commercial frontage.
10:29:42 While that wasn't necessarily stated I think it was

10:29:45 council's intent to be for the purposes of being for
10:29:46 commercial signage and not for residential directional
10:29:49 signage.
10:29:50 So I have gone ahead.
10:29:51 I have made these changes.
10:29:52 And with those changes I would request that you go to
10:29:56 move this item on first reading.
10:29:58 I do want to state, any members of the audience or
10:30:01 anybody who is interested for this type of ordinance
10:30:04 the public hearing for this would be held at second
10:30:06 reading which I believe will be done November 1st.
10:30:11 Thank you.
10:30:12 I'm available for any questions.
10:30:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: As you well know I did not support
10:30:16 this ordinance on first reading.
10:30:18 The first time it came before us.
10:30:20 And I will not be supporting it on second reading.
10:30:23 Let me tell you why.
10:30:24 First of all, to me a banner is a sign.
10:30:28 There's no description here that a banner is a sign.
10:30:33 So the banners are excluded.
10:30:35 So if you go right now to Columbus drive and

10:30:39 MacDill, you will see a flag that's about 12-foot
10:30:42 tall with a name on it waving.
10:30:46 If you go to Columbus drive and Matanzas you will see
10:30:49 five or six flags on city right-of-way tied to a bush.
10:30:55 You will think you are in Iraq during an election.
10:30:57 If you really want to look at things differently in
10:30:59 West Tampa we have a new tree in West Tampa and it's
10:31:03 called the orange cone.
10:31:05 It's the only part of the city where you have got
10:31:07 5,000 cones on everything at every event at the
10:31:11 stadium so we have a new tree in the city of stadium
10:31:16 called a cone.
10:31:17 Talked to me about it the other day.
10:31:19 I had realized that but I didn't know that was a
10:31:22 native tree of Tampa.
10:31:24 So we do things in government, and we don't let the
10:31:26 industry do the same thing.
10:31:30 If five minutes is good enough for my sign in all
10:31:34 these areas, it should be good enough for everybody
10:31:36 else.
10:31:37 And I'm not speaking for or against the public.
10:31:40 But I understand the frustration that we are having by

10:31:44 us saying, since it's us, we have the right to do it.
10:31:49 I don't have did right to overspeed.
10:31:50 If it's 65 I should get a ticket if I'm going faster
10:31:54 than 65.
10:31:55 I should not be excluded because I'm a government
10:31:59 official.
10:32:00 It's the same thing, and the things that I look at.
10:32:03 Maybe my mind doesn't work like a normal person.
10:32:06 And I will admit to that.
10:32:10 But lie at both sides of the fence before I make a
10:32:13 decision.
10:32:16 Not only what I want to see publicly but what's right
10:32:18 for all of us, you and me.
10:32:20 And I like to see something done to the sign.
10:32:23 But it's not clear enough to me that we have had the
10:32:28 opportunity to do the right thing.
10:32:31 And that's my feeling.
10:32:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The improvement of our sign
10:32:38 ordinance has been going on for three years.
10:32:43 What is before us represents a compromise.
10:32:45 It is not as strong as I would like it to be.
10:32:48 But it was a compromise developed between industry

10:32:50 people, business people, I saw Mr. Rotella here.
10:32:54 He was an active member of it.
10:32:56 Ms. Vizzi.
10:32:57 What's before us, I think, is a decent compromise and
10:33:00 a decent ordinance.
10:33:01 And I urge my colleagues to pass it.
10:33:03 So I would like to move the ordinance before us.
10:33:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I did want to speak to this issue
10:33:11 about hypocrisy because we don't want to allow
10:33:17 government to do one thing and tell the private sector
10:33:19 they can't.
10:33:20 Ms. Cole indicated in her memo, and that she's made
10:33:24 changes pursuant to council's motion, that says legal
10:33:28 department presented a revised ordinance.
10:33:30 That's what we have today, related to government
10:33:32 signs, to include language that signs on public
10:33:35 facilities cannot be used for private advertising.
10:33:38 And I'll point on page 4, paren 20, specifically it
10:33:43 says the copy on the electronic message signs shall
10:33:45 not change more than once in a five-minute period.
10:33:47 That's good.
10:33:49 That's hopefully what the compromise was.

10:33:50 And says, unless otherwise allowed by law, or for a
10:33:54 government sign as necessary for the public health and
10:33:57 safety, or for a traffic control device.
10:34:00 So, in other words, the government signs that say --
10:34:03 that are directional, that say, you know, warning, or
10:34:06 urgent, they can scroll, they can change, but the
10:34:10 intent of this ordinance is that the government signs
10:34:14 by the stadium that might say, buy Budweiser beer or
10:34:18 something like that cannot.
10:34:20 And that was the direction of this council last time.
10:34:22 I believe Ms. Cole -- Julia?
10:34:27 When you drafted this, that's the provision you were
10:34:28 referring to, right?
10:34:30 >>> That's correct.
10:34:32 >> That's the intent of this ordinance.
10:34:33 >>> That's correct.
10:34:34 >> And I'm stating that intent clearly so if there's
10:34:36 any confusion down the road in terms of
10:34:38 interpretation, that hopefully that will clear that
10:34:40 up.
10:34:41 So I'm very comfortable that we have eliminated some
10:34:44 of this hypocrisy issue, that several folks in the

10:34:48 community raised, and we can move forward with the
10:34:51 compromises that Ms. Saul-Sena indicated.
10:34:54 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder, would you read it?
10:34:56 >> Move an ordinance of the city of Tampa, Florida
10:34:58 making comprehensive revisions to chapter 20.5 City of
10:35:01 Tampa code of ordinances amending 20.5-4 words defined
10:35:07 amending section 20.5-7, allowable signs, permits,
10:35:11 when not required, amending section 20.5-13 on-site
10:35:15 signs, permits required by repealing and replacing
10:35:18 section 20.5-13 (C)-1, amending section 20.5-13
10:35:27 on-site signs, permits required by repealing and
10:35:30 replacing section 20.5-13-C-2, repealing and replacing
10:35:35 section 20.5-16, repealing all ordinances or parts of
10:35:39 ordinances in conflict therewith, providing for
10:35:43 severability, providing an effective date.
10:35:43 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor.
10:35:46 >>THE CLERK: Miranda voting no. Second reading will
10:35:48 occur on November 1st at 9:30.
10:35:51 >> Number 105. Need to move the resolution.
10:35:56 (Motion carried).
10:35:57 >> Number 106 is the same thing. Same thing.
10:35:59 >> So moved.

10:35:59 (Motion carried)
10:36:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Number 107. Resolution.
10:36:07 >> So moved.
10:36:09 >>MARY MULHERN: I had a question on the motion.
10:36:11 I was thrilled the building community is accepting
10:36:12 these changes but their representative mentioned
10:36:14 hiring a consultant and I was wondering if that was
10:36:18 part of the resolution.
10:36:22 >> Cindy Miller, director of growth management
10:36:25 development services.
10:36:26 Ms. Mulhern, it's not part of the resolution.
10:36:28 But when we met with the various stakeholders and
10:36:30 industry groups, this was our suggestion, that we
10:36:32 bring a consultant in, in the next few months, so that
10:36:36 we are able to analyze not only our fee structure but
10:36:40 our performance, how long it takes us to do things.
10:36:43 So we have made that commitment to the industry.
10:36:45 I also included it when I briefed you and the rest of
10:36:49 the administration and we do intend to do that, have
10:36:51 someone on board in the next couple of months.
10:36:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me first thank Ms. Miller for the
10:36:57 opportunity to come and brief my office during the

10:36:59 course of the week.
10:37:00 And I commend that, because here again it helps us to
10:37:03 make the decision, have all the backup and all the
10:37:06 facts of that information, and I just want to let you
10:37:07 know I really appreciate that.
10:37:17 I am going to supports this.
10:37:18 However, I would like, though, for us, and my concern
10:37:21 has been the affordable housing issue.
10:37:27 What I would like to see happen is that legal and
10:37:29 staff go look at the issue relative to what we talked
10:37:33 about yesterday, those constraints, properties which
10:37:38 Mr. Miranda talked about all the time, where there's a
10:37:40 ditch, you can't put a sidewalk, and we are paying 9,
10:37:44 $10,000 anyhow, and where you can't move a tree
10:37:47 because it's protected and they still have to pay 4 or
10:37:52 $5,000.
10:37:53 I would like to you take a look at that and bring that
10:37:55 back as a part of your, I guess, workshop on
10:37:58 affordable housing and come back whenever your report
10:38:00 comes back in November, the opportunity that we can
10:38:04 waive those fees, so here again that would help
10:38:08 affordable housing, so we talk about constrained items

10:38:14 of constrained property, where it cannot be done.
10:38:18 I mean, you have got the ditch.
10:38:19 You can't put a sidewalk.
10:38:21 And so that's where I would like to bring legal to
10:38:24 look at that and bring back oh some recommendation to
10:38:26 us and staff, when you bring the report back in
10:38:29 November.
10:38:32 Now, I do need to make that a motion?
10:38:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder.
10:38:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Do we have a motion pending?
10:38:42 I just want to compliment Ms. Miller and her team.
10:38:47 They put together a chart that talked about the
10:38:51 differences on the rezoning fees, and it connects on
10:38:56 charter, and it talks about the differences in the
10:38:58 percentages, very helpful, thank you.
10:39:02 >>GWEN MILLER: My legislative aide, if anyone called
10:39:07 in she will have the sheet to go along and I thought
10:39:10 that was very good.
10:39:10 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you for allowing me this
10:39:16 opportunity.
10:39:16 As you well know Reverend Scott and I are starting to
10:39:18 speak together because we are seventh cousins.

10:39:21 And I'm glad that he's bringing up these items about
10:39:24 ditches and things like that that really need to be
10:39:27 discussed on sidewalks.
10:39:29 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a resolution on 107.
10:39:31 We have a motion and second.
10:39:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And Ms. Miller is conveniently
10:39:37 standing at the question.
10:39:38 I have a question. I know that your division has
10:39:40 embarked on sort of a customer service improvement
10:39:43 program.
10:39:45 And I wondered if you could give a very brief update.
10:39:49 To me the improvement of service is tied to these
10:39:52 increases, because what I heard from my friends in the
10:39:55 development world is time is of the essence.
10:39:58 And the quick review of permitting really more than
10:40:05 offsets the price increases.
10:40:07 The specific concern I have is what I have heard, what
10:40:10 slows things down, is the fire department review,
10:40:14 which you do not have control over.
10:40:16 So how can we at council get the administration to get
10:40:20 the fire department to understand that they need to be
10:40:23 as timely as your staff?

10:40:28 >>> Cindy Miller: From the standpoint of fire
10:40:30 marshals office over the last few weeks as we were
10:40:33 coming forward with this restructure -- fee structure,
10:40:36 this fee structure does include the fire marshal's
10:40:38 office as part of what we will collect.
10:40:40 I have had meetings with Chief Jones, and the fire
10:40:45 marshal, and even since we started the discussion,
10:40:47 Tampa Fire Rescue assigned an additional person to the
10:40:51 fire marshal's office at construction services.
10:40:54 The chief and I are talking about performance
10:40:57 measures, just as we have for construction services
10:40:58 division as a whole.
10:41:00 We also will be working with the fire marshal's office
10:41:04 offering any additional administrative support we can
10:41:06 and any technology we can, and so we are anticipating
10:41:10 in the coming year we will be able to see a much
10:41:12 shorter turn-around time when it comes to those
10:41:14 particular items.
10:41:15 I think with Chief Jones help we are going to be able
10:41:20 to get this accomplished.
10:41:20 >> I'm pleased to hear that.
10:41:22 I need to see proof.

10:41:23 Way would love to do after we pass this is get a
10:41:27 report back from you all 90 days out on how the
10:41:29 performance standards have indeed improved.
10:41:31 Because I really heard frustration from the
10:41:36 development community in terms of that timing.
10:41:38 And I'm very pleased to see that that's happening.
10:41:44 >>CHAIRMAN: We have a motion and second.
10:41:47 All in favor of that motion say Aye.
10:41:48 Opposed, Nay.
10:41:50 Item 108.
10:41:50 The resolution.
10:41:54 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I wanted to make the motion now
10:41:55 that we receive a report back on construction services
10:41:59 and the fire chief in 90 days on how the improvement
10:42:04 and time for review has improved.
10:42:09 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll second it for purposes of
10:42:13 discussion.
10:42:14 Ms. Miller, is 90 days enough to implement it, and
10:42:17 then see the changes?
10:42:20 Or maybe six months?
10:42:24 >>> Six months would be better.
10:42:25 And perhaps FHP we could do that is that as a written

10:42:28 report that's submitted to City Council, that way we
10:42:30 can have sort of a before and after comparison that we
10:42:32 submit in writing.
10:42:33 >> I'll support six months and you can do it in
10:42:37 writing but we would like to see knew person to chat
10:42:39 about it.
10:42:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
10:42:42 (Motion carried).
10:42:43 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I want to move my motion that
10:42:49 administration and legal bring back to us
10:42:52 recommendation on how to address the issue of the
10:42:54 constrained items for ditches and trees and sidewalks.
10:42:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
10:43:01 >>THOMAS SCOTT: And the --
10:43:03 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion an second.
10:43:06 Question on the motion?
10:43:09 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did you want that to come back if
10:43:11 time allows at the same time as we talk about
10:43:13 affordable housing?
10:43:14 >> If they can do it in November.
10:43:15 If they can't, let us know and we will continue that
10:43:17 item.

10:43:18 >> I believe there will be sufficient time in my
10:43:20 presentation to at least is have something presented,
10:43:22 if not verbally we can have it in writing.
10:43:26 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I just want to make sure that when
10:43:28 those recommendations come back and the discussion
10:43:30 comes back that they are very separate, because I will
10:43:34 support waiving all of the city fees for affordable
10:43:38 housing.
10:43:38 I'm not sure that -- it can be separate
10:43:44 recommendations.
10:43:44 That way we can have an opportunity to vote
10:43:46 separately.
10:43:48 Because really in many cases they are different
10:43:50 animals.
10:43:51 I understand completely where you all are going on
10:43:53 this.
10:43:53 But I just think we should have an opportunity to
10:43:55 address those as separate issues because they really
10:43:57 are separate issues.
10:43:58 You might be building a $5 million home.
10:44:01 You might have that ditch issue.
10:44:05 It's not an affordable housing issue but still might

10:44:08 be a fairness issue so let's break it out and deal
10:44:10 with it separately.
10:44:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'm glad I got the opportunity to
10:44:14 take one last jab at this.
10:44:18 When you build a sidewalk, the ordinance, and you can
10:44:23 correct me, legal department, it says it must be built
10:44:25 on the right-of-way.
10:44:27 When there is no right-of-way, we are telling the good
10:44:31 people who are putting that development of one house
10:44:36 or whatever, we are going to take your property, and
10:44:40 you will build a sidewalk on that property.
10:44:43 That is unlawful.
10:44:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Unconstitutional, that's right.
10:44:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You cannot take property whether
10:44:50 you are the City of Tampa, Hillsborough County, the
10:44:52 State of Florida, or the United States of America, in
10:44:56 this free country, without making some type of a
10:44:58 commitment for payment.
10:45:02 We must review this sidewalk ordinance.
10:45:04 We must review what we have done.
10:45:06 And I have agreed with it.
10:45:08 However, show me one plan that the City of Tampa has

10:45:15 where you have a system in place to do this.
10:45:22 It's all, we'll do it tomorrow, next month do that
10:45:25 one, a year from now we'll do the other one.
10:45:27 There is no system.
10:45:28 There's a system for everything else.
10:45:31 But there's not a system for this one.
10:45:32 If you really want to look at it raw form and you
10:45:36 really want to do something, why don't that "in lieu
10:45:40 of" to me doesn't sit very well because if you are
10:45:44 expanding your house by 50%, then guess what, I'm
10:45:46 going to charge you for the addition to the house and
10:45:48 taxes, and I'm going to charge you seven, eight, nine,
10:45:52 ten thousand dollars for the sidewalk.
10:45:55 I hit you twice.
10:45:56 I'm getting money on your expansion that you needed
10:45:59 for your mother-in-law or taking care of a sick
10:46:01 relative or whatever you are doing.
10:46:02 That's number one.
10:46:03 And number two, I just feel that I'm doing something
10:46:08 unjustified.
10:46:11 However, there could be a solution.
10:46:15 In lieu of, not in lieu of putting money somewhere

10:46:17 else so somebody else can have a sidewalk, why don't
10:46:20 you say, since we want to go green, right now I think
10:46:22 I'm half purple, is this -- in lieu of putting the
10:46:26 sidewalk, you will get a credit for putting in a solar
10:46:29 system.
10:46:31 You accomplish two things at once.
10:46:33 You are never going to get a sidewalk.
10:46:35 Not in my lifetime.
10:46:36 Not in anybody's lifetime.
10:46:39 Because all the houses already built without a
10:46:41 sidewalk there's one lot and you put it on, I'll be
10:46:46 speaking German by the time that happens.
10:46:48 It's not going to happen.
10:46:50 So why don't we change our thoughts and say, listen,
10:46:56 remember I said that looked like me?
10:46:58 Well, the part of the mouth is working now.
10:47:02 Let's go on and give the taxpayer an opportunity to do
10:47:07 a choice.
10:47:12 Let's save us, let's save the environment.
10:47:14 Instead of spending $8,000 on a sidewalk that's going
10:47:17 nowhere, I can show you a thousand of them.
10:47:20 Put a solar operation to lower your costs in the

10:47:24 future and to lower the emissions that we do and the
10:47:28 damage that we do to this earth.
10:47:31 Thank you, Madam Chair.
10:47:33 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you, Mr. Miranda.
10:47:35 I thought you were just working on sidewalks and
10:47:37 you're saving the world now.
10:47:39 >> I can't save the world.
10:47:41 I learned that a long time ago.
10:47:43 >>MARY MULHERN: I would like to look at this in a
10:47:47 broad -- I think you probably said this somewhere in
10:47:49 there, but look at this whole sidewalk issue in an
10:47:52 even broader perspective.
10:47:53 I think Mr. Dingfelder is going to bring back a green
10:47:56 initiative, and that can be part of that, or an
10:47:59 ordinance for that.
10:48:00 But I also think we need to look at some facts of --
10:48:04 and I don't think it just has to be affordable
10:48:06 housing.
10:48:06 I think if you are building, and you are building on a
10:48:10 street where there's never going to be a sidewalk
10:48:13 connecting, you shouldn't have to put a sidewalk in or
10:48:16 pay an in lieu fee if you are building a sidewalk to

10:48:20 nowhere.
10:48:21 And I brought this up a long time ago so I think I can
10:48:24 be your distant cousin, too.
10:48:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I believe that Jan Washington, who
10:48:33 is in our transportation department, really does have
10:48:36 a map showing where sidewalks are being planned.
10:48:38 And I have seen streets change.
10:48:42 I have seen streets that have started, where people
10:48:46 started building new houses and taking down old houses
10:48:49 and piece by piece they have created sidewalks.
10:48:51 A sidewalk is a wonderful amenity for safety for kids
10:48:55 in the neighborhood and increase it is value of the
10:48:57 property.
10:48:58 And I don't want to see us treat less affluent
10:49:02 neighborhoods in one way and more affluent
10:49:04 neighborhoods in another way because that isn't right
10:49:06 either.
10:49:06 I think that perhaps this discussion requires one of
10:49:09 those Thursdays where we really have a workshop, we
10:49:14 get the transportation people in, as well as the
10:49:16 planning people, and tan a look at what the situation
10:49:20 is.

10:49:20 I agree that if there's an area, because lots of
10:49:26 public right-of-way and swales will never have it,
10:49:28 that we need to recognize. That but if there are
10:49:30 neighborhoods that people just don't feel like it
10:49:32 because they are the second house on the block to do
10:49:34 it, I have just seen too many success stories where
10:49:37 neighborhoods turn over and now have connectivity.
10:49:39 It's a huge attribute to the people who live there.
10:49:42 So I think this is worthy of our attention.
10:49:44 I think the citizens really care about this.
10:49:46 And I would invite developers to sit in, and I invite
10:49:49 members of T.H.A.N.
10:49:53 >>THOMAS SCOTT: My motion again, to restate the
10:49:55 motion, I said again, a administration to bring back
10:50:01 to us options in terms of the issue of resident that
10:50:07 are building in terms of ditches, sidewalks, trees,
10:50:11 you know, the whole issue, back to us, whether it's
10:50:15 affordable housing or any house, bringing that back to
10:50:19 us and taking a look at it.
10:50:21 I wanted to state my motion for that.
10:50:23 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
10:50:24 (Motion carried).

10:50:29 All right.
10:50:29 Item 108.
10:50:30 A resolution we need to pass.
10:50:32 >> So moved.
10:50:33 >> Second.
10:50:33 (Motion carried).
10:50:33 >>GWEN MILLER: 109.
10:50:35 Is there a representative here?
10:50:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Solid waste?
10:50:41 >>> David Heim, director contract administration.
10:50:48 Myself and Cindy Miller will be addressing this.
10:50:54 I want to speak to you specifically about green and
10:50:58 sustainability initiatives with regard to city
10:51:00 facilities.
10:51:01 I know there have been a number of discussions over
10:51:03 the past few months about various green aspects.
10:51:07 This is one we haven't talked to you about.
10:51:09 And there are actually quite a few things that have
10:51:13 gone on in the past and are continuing.
10:51:15 So I would like to share with you a little bit about
10:51:17 where we have been, where we think we are now, and
10:51:19 where we are going.

10:51:24 >> Do we have a handout?
10:51:25 >>> After this meeting I can provide you a list of
10:51:28 projects of things, and you have seen some of those.
10:51:31 I have updated that list that you have seen, and would
10:51:34 be happy to provide it to all the members of council.
10:51:37 But one of the things I want to communicate to you is
10:51:41 I think there is an impression that this is something
10:51:43 that is new to the city, when in fact there are
10:51:46 several initiatives that have been going on for 20
10:51:48 years or more, specifically related to sustainable
10:51:51 type issues.
10:51:54 Before LEED existed we were doing some of these
10:51:57 things.
10:51:58 In specific, in our roofing program, it has long been
10:52:01 a standard, when I got here in 1986 it was already a
10:52:04 standard that we were out to eliminate all dark
10:52:08 colored built-up roof systems.
10:52:11 And we have over the years, whenever we have replaced
10:52:14 and done new roofs, we have installed them on the
10:52:16 basis of a highly reflective aluminized coating.
10:52:21 And I am not aware at this time of any city-owned
10:52:24 building that doesn't have at least that standard.

10:52:27 As you know, we have installed some cool roofs in
10:52:32 locations and I'll talk about some other that is are
10:52:34 upcoming in the near future, one that in fact is
10:52:36 starting this weekend.
10:52:42 We are near the end of what has been a ten year
10:52:45 process to update systems in our major office
10:52:49 facilities downtown.
10:52:50 This building, the annex next door, TPD headquarters,
10:52:54 and fire one, all have had their old water cooling
10:52:59 tower systems replaced with air cooled condenser
10:53:02 systems.
10:53:02 This offers a bunch of benefits not only just the
10:53:06 increased efficiency of the units that are there, but
10:53:09 eliminates water sources that can impact air quality
10:53:12 and mold, saving 1 million gallons of water per year
10:53:19 per location at each of these facilities.
10:53:22 We have over the course of about ten years been
10:53:25 replacing and upgrading all of our ball field lights
10:53:28 with high efficiency ballasts and I'll show you
10:53:36 something that goes even beyond that.
10:53:38 We started with the Greco administration, finished up
10:53:41 under this administration, a recreation bond project

10:53:43 that provided about 16 new locations of community
10:53:48 centers and additions.
10:53:50 All of those have incorporated various issues from
10:53:54 daylighting and major spaces, orienting the building
10:53:58 so you knot stuff on the north side and don't have to
10:54:00 deal, drip irrigation, native plants, all of those
10:54:05 kinds of things that feed into the program.
10:54:07 We have modernized elevators, we have cleaned using
10:54:12 biodegradable products, when we recognize that we
10:54:16 needed to project -- to protect the large amount of
10:54:19 glass on the southwest corner of CMLB from flying
10:54:24 projectiles and make sure they have a solar component,
10:54:27 to cut down on heat gain.
10:54:29 All of those things have been standard practice with
10:54:31 us for some time.
10:54:32 Over the past probably 15 years, we have done about a
10:54:36 dozen projects dealing with the remediation of
10:54:39 underground tanks.
10:54:41 Much of this is mandated by regulation.
10:54:44 But we have gone beyond the regulation.
10:54:46 The regulations allow you to put those things -- to
10:54:51 pull them out, clean them up, stick them back in the

10:54:53 ground and come back and do it in a few more years.
10:54:55 We have consolidated where possible, and virtually
10:54:57 every location we have been above ground where we can
10:55:03 monitor, watch, protect, and present material getting
10:55:07 into the groundwater.
10:55:09 What we are doing now, there's some recent projects
10:55:11 that you are familiar with, the TPD 3 project had
10:55:16 probably 2,000 items, directly sustainable related
10:55:21 items.
10:55:22 If you have driven past the Whiting Street garage
10:55:26 recently, it is now safe to walk in after dark.
10:55:30 We did not increase the lights.
10:55:31 We simply replaced them with the high efficiency
10:55:34 ballasts and fixtures.
10:55:39 Wellswood ball field project is our first green
10:55:41 ballfield lighting installation which provides an
10:55:45 additional layer in the efficiency of the equipment
10:55:47 that's being put on.
10:55:48 This weekend we are starting to install a cool roof on
10:55:51 TPD headquarters.
10:55:53 And just in general, in policy, we are looking at all
10:55:55 of those issues, materials, equipment, what can we

10:55:59 incorporate into the projects?
10:56:02 Where we are going, very briefly, there are two very
10:56:06 significant things that are underway.
10:56:08 One is that for the past year, the facilities
10:56:12 maintenance folks in conjunction with TECO, and if you
10:56:17 can get another minute here --
10:56:19 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Sorry to interrupt, sir.
10:56:21 Madam Chair, just per council's rules, how much
10:56:23 council did council wish to allocate to this?
10:56:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I move that we hear another five
10:56:30 minutes.
10:56:31 >>> I need about a minute.
10:56:32 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
10:56:37 (Motion carried).
10:56:37 >>> Thank you.
10:56:41 For the past year, building maintenance in conjunction
10:56:43 with TECO has been conducting energy audits of all of
10:56:46 our city facilities.
10:56:47 They have looked at over 500 structures, and at the
10:56:49 beginning of this month, they finished the field
10:56:53 component of that effort.
10:56:55 And between now and the first of the year they will be

10:56:58 compiling that information, getting estimates,
10:57:00 priorities, and at the beginning of 2008 there will be
10:57:04 a report with an outline of additional things that can
10:57:07 be performed in our facilities.
10:57:09 And then lastly, moving towards that, getting LEED
10:57:13 accreditation for my staff.
10:57:15 I have four other architects on staff besides myself.
10:57:18 We have our first training session October 29th.
10:57:21 And so we are moving in that direction.
10:57:23 Regardless of what level of LEED certification we
10:57:26 pursue in the future, that base of knowledge and
10:57:28 having that understanding is going to be valuable to
10:57:30 us.
10:57:31 Thank you very much.
10:57:36 >>> Cindy Miller, director of growth management
10:57:39 development services.
10:57:39 I am really going to talk for just 30 seconds about a
10:57:42 preview of things to come.
10:57:44 One thing in our affordable housing workshop in about
10:57:46 a month, month and a half, I do intend to talk about
10:57:49 some initiatives that we will be looking at with
10:57:51 affordable housing to have sustainability within

10:57:54 houses that we are providing some form of funding for.
10:57:58 I will give you more information at that time.
10:58:00 And also I look forward to in the future where the
10:58:02 committee that Mr. Dingfelder and I have been working
10:58:06 with, we will have recommendations for the future on
10:58:07 that.
10:58:08 But that will be, I believe, after the first of the
10:58:11 year.
10:58:11 Thank you.
10:58:11 (Bell sounds).
10:58:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: First I would like to thank Mr.
10:58:15 Vaughan.
10:58:15 That was really a great report.
10:58:17 I'm so pleased we are doing all these things.
10:58:19 And I'm pleased that the committee that Ms. Miller is
10:58:22 working on is moving ahead.
10:58:23 The city had identified, before Mr. McCary left,
10:58:29 people in the different departments who were then
10:58:31 making up a team, were supposed to be addressing
10:58:33 things, and I'm so concerned that it's not moving
10:58:37 ahead so reassure me.
10:58:38 >>> It is still -- it was a great loss for him to go

10:58:43 to San Antonio.
10:58:43 We are continuing our efforts, because even though Mr.
10:58:48 McCary has departed it is still one of our strategic
10:58:51 initiatives.
10:58:52 Thom smelling from -- Snelling, from our department,
10:58:57 Mr. Vaughan from his department standpoint.
10:58:59 So the efforts are not in staffing.
10:59:01 They perhaps are a little bit slow because of Mr.
10:59:04 McCary's departure but it will still be the person
10:59:08 when interviewed for his replacement will also include
10:59:11 that type of background and initiatives for the
10:59:13 future.
10:59:14 >> So will the solid waste department be the lead, the
10:59:18 driver of this process?
10:59:20 And did you get my memo where senator -- not senator,
10:59:25 she would love that -- representative castor's office
10:59:27 has volunteered to give federal money for several
10:59:30 things we wanted to do but they didn't know who to
10:59:32 contact because of Mr. McCary.
10:59:35 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Director of utility services.
10:59:39 Yes, we have your memo.
10:59:41 And we'll take care of contacting them.

10:59:43 But as Ms. Miller said we are going to focus heavily
10:59:49 on these environmental issues, along with many other
10:59:52 things, when we are looking for the new solid waste
10:59:55 director.
10:59:55 And we do expect the person in that position to
10:59:58 continue on with these initiatives.
10:59:59 >> In the District of Columbia --
11:00:07 >>> V.J. and Nancy McKinnon are still working these
11:00:11 initiatives, yes.
11:00:12 >> When do they meet again?
11:00:16 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: I think they have a regular meeting
11:00:19 --
11:00:19 >> If you could just update council in a written form
11:00:22 as to when -- you don't have to come back and give a
11:00:25 formal report.
11:00:26 If you could just let us know when their next meeting
11:00:28 is scheduled.
11:00:30 Council is very interested in this.
11:00:32 And we would like to be informed on a continuing
11:00:34 basis.
11:00:34 If you could just, you know --
11:00:39 >>> the issues are not just because they meet, but

11:00:41 because of the organization, they know where to send
11:00:44 certain items to be evaluated.
11:00:48 >> But I always feel like when people convene and they
11:00:51 do what they say they are going to do at the last
11:00:55 meeting.
11:00:55 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Mulhern.
11:00:57 >>MARY MULHERN: I witness to Chicago recently for a
11:01:00 conference on cities.
11:01:01 And Chicago has implemented -- they have a
11:01:06 sustainability director.
11:01:10 And every department then has a person.
11:01:13 And I know this is what Linda was talking about.
11:01:17 But for them, it's not just about, you know, green
11:01:19 building or LEED certification that's talked about,
11:01:23 and purchasing.
11:01:24 It's fleet management.
11:01:26 It's every single department.
11:01:28 And it starts at the top.
11:01:30 And they have standards that they have to meet and
11:01:35 benchmarks.
11:01:36 I think it would be great, and since we are in this
11:01:38 process where we are hiring a new solid waste person,

11:01:44 and that's a big job anyway.
11:01:46 I think we need to start thinking about someone who is
11:01:48 devoted to the whole process, and it will pay for
11:01:53 itself so quickly.
11:01:54 I know Chicago is not the only city, that's doing that
11:01:57 but I know we can look at other cities and see how
11:01:59 they are implementing all these sustainable
11:02:02 strategies, and see how it pays for itself really
11:02:05 quickly.
11:02:08 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Those are great comments.
11:02:10 The University of Florida folks came down the other
11:02:14 day.
11:02:15 I didn't say this just for you, Steve.
11:02:17 But they came down the other day and they are really
11:02:19 leading the state in terms of institution that is have
11:02:22 mate made great progress on these issues.
11:02:24 And they created several years back an office of
11:02:26 sustainability with a director.
11:02:29 And now that staff is growing accordingly.
11:02:33 And I think that that clearly might be one of the
11:02:36 things that our task force will be talking about.
11:02:42 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I know we just finished passing the

11:02:44 budget only two weeks ago that we did that.
11:02:46 But as we look toward next year, I think that -- I
11:02:51 know that David McCary was going to figure out what
11:02:54 our carbon footprint was as a city.
11:02:56 I believe that Mary is correct that we will ultimately
11:02:59 save money if we implement these things.
11:03:01 So as we look toward next year's budget, I think that
11:03:05 that should be part of the thinking of all the
11:03:07 departments of sustainability, investing in projects
11:03:11 that will then reap a return, and as you said so
11:03:16 eloquently, it's in every process that we do as a city
11:03:19 we can look toward making it more sustainable.
11:03:21 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you, Mr. Daignault, I appreciate
11:03:25 that.
11:03:26 Ms. Miller, thank you.
11:03:27 We go to item 110.
11:03:32 >>STEVE DAIGNAULT: Administrator public works, utility
11:03:34 services.
11:03:34 Item number 110 is Annie street in Sulphur Springs.
11:03:39 There were some community issues that we were asked to
11:03:41 take a look at, specifically that the road needed to
11:03:44 be resurfaced, that they were requesting sidewalks and

11:03:48 the stormwater issue.
11:03:49 Just to provide you some information.
11:03:51 We have looked at, evaluated all of those.
11:03:53 The road certainly does need some work.
11:03:57 We are not able to get it into the '08 schedule.
11:04:01 We do expect to get it into the '09 schedule.
11:04:04 Again it competes against other roads that have needs.
11:04:07 But again, based on its condition and our evaluation,
11:04:10 we think that we can get it in '09.
11:04:12 With regard to the sidewalk, we have some work to do
11:04:15 with the community first, as was mentioned earlier.
11:04:18 Nevertheless, we think that we could get that in.
11:04:22 It's possible that it would happen in '08, in fiscal
11:04:24 year '08 based on other projects, not moving forward,
11:04:28 or would be '09.
11:04:30 But again, we have got both of those on our radar.
11:04:34 With respect to the stormwater, it's a little
11:04:38 different situation.
11:04:39 The requirements this in there to address the
11:04:41 stormwater issue are significant.
11:04:45 Currently, that project competes again with other
11:04:48 projects in our five-year plan, and it's currently not

11:04:50 in the five-year plan.
11:04:52 Nevertheless, we have begun design development for
11:04:56 solution in that area.
11:04:57 Again, it is going to be a significantly large issue
11:05:00 to deal with for the stormwater.
11:05:06 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Mulhern?
11:05:08 >>MARY MULHERN: I think I was the one that brought
11:05:09 this to your attention, because we had heard from some
11:05:12 residents.
11:05:12 And I just want to make sure that you are
11:05:16 communicating with them about the plan.
11:05:18 >>> We'll provide them the same information.
11:05:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:05:23 Item number 111.
11:05:25 We need to receive and file the written report.
11:05:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I wanted to thank the
11:05:29 administration for these responses there were two
11:05:34 specific projects in which there's supposed to be
11:05:36 something happening by the end of the year.
11:05:39 Guida house and the El Centro, I would like to request
11:05:43 we have an update at our second meeting in December
11:05:45 which would be December 20th.

11:05:50 A written as well as an oral update.
11:05:53 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
11:05:55 (Motion carried).
11:06:00 Item number 112.
11:06:03 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney here to speak on item
11:06:05 number 112.
11:06:06 This deals with Bright House and the relocation of the
11:06:08 public, educational and governmental channels to a
11:06:12 different tier, a digital tier.
11:06:16 The mayor has advised me she shares the concern of
11:06:19 council with regard to the relocation.
11:06:21 And it's also our understanding that Manatee County
11:06:23 and the city of St. Petersburg are evaluating the
11:06:28 prospects of whether litigation might be necessary.
11:06:32 We will be talking with them and determining whether
11:06:34 it makes sense for to us join in those efforts.
11:06:37 We understand there's a short time frame because they
11:06:40 are proposing to do this, I believe in December.
11:06:45 And if there's an injunction that needs to be brought,
11:06:48 it needs to be brought before that happens,
11:06:51 preferably.
11:06:51 So we will be keeping you informed, since it looks

11:06:55 like there's a prospect of litigation, that
11:06:58 information will probably be one on one, or
11:07:01 telephonically rather than publicly.
11:07:03 But that's kind of a general summary of where we are
11:07:05 at today.
11:07:05 >>GWEN MILLER: Are they giving any kind of
11:07:07 consideration of not changing the channels since they
11:07:10 heard from the public and the public was saying how it
11:07:12 would be disrupting and they would have a hard time
11:07:14 getting -- have they started things?
11:07:18 >>> It's my understanding it's having no effect.
11:07:20 They are still rather determined to make the change.
11:07:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
11:07:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I'll defer to Ms. Saul-Sena.
11:07:27 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just wondered if there's any
11:07:30 additional effort that council can make in terms of
11:07:37 encouraging the city and the administration to go
11:07:39 after this vociferously.
11:07:43 I have heard from numbers of constituents who feel
11:07:45 this would be dreadful.
11:07:46 If there's any additional mandate you need in terms of
11:07:49 money or staff or effort, we really -- council feels

11:07:52 very strongly about pursuing them.
11:07:54 >>DAVID SMITH: Thank you very much.
11:07:56 I appreciate. That because depending on what we do,
11:07:59 we may be needing some outside counsel assistance.
11:08:02 I think indicating your position as you have done so,
11:08:05 in strong terms is helpful.
11:08:07 I should tell you that Steve Anderson asked me to
11:08:10 advise you and he was here to speak to this issue
11:08:12 before but he had to leave so he apologies for not
11:08:14 being here.
11:08:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
11:08:18 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Thank you, Mr. Smith.
11:08:20 I took the liberty of meeting with Mr. Anderson and
11:08:24 with his clients, Mr. Del Castillo this week to see if
11:08:30 there was anything we could do to change their minds.
11:08:33 Bright House, yes.
11:08:36 And they said from their level, at their level they
11:08:40 said their hands are tied, they said this is a
11:08:42 regional thing, that they are going to change at cross
11:08:44 the entire region.
11:08:45 And what we are talking about is the fact that
11:08:47 channels 15 through 22, Bright House, is planning on

11:08:51 moving those in December to go all the way up on the
11:08:55 dial to channel 615 through 622, that would include
11:08:59 the city, this channel that you are watching, channel
11:09:02 15, the county channel, 22, the education channel 20
11:09:06 or whatever they are, and the channels in between.
11:09:10 In addition, if folks don't have the high def box or
11:09:17 the high def capability as part of their package they
11:09:19 are going to have to pay an extra dollar to Bright
11:09:21 House per month to buy that box that would just give
11:09:25 them the right to see those high end programming.
11:09:29 As somebody mentioned earlier, I think it is unfair to
11:09:32 the poor, and to the folks who, you know, don't want
11:09:37 to be paying any additional money to receive the
11:09:40 government channels, and, in addition, I think it
11:09:43 extremely unfair to the community, period, because as
11:09:46 we discussed the last time, folks are channel surfing
11:09:50 and they are watching the Bucs on fox 14, you know,
11:09:56 then the next thing they hit is they hit this channel.
11:09:58 And they get to see their government in action.
11:10:02 And it's so important for our community to know what
11:10:05 we are doing, what we are voting on, what issues are
11:10:08 in front of council, and this city.

11:10:11 And that's the feedback we get constantly, is we get
11:10:14 feedback because people see it.
11:10:16 They read the papers, with all due respect, they read
11:10:18 the papers as well.
11:10:19 But most people see what we are doing by watching us
11:10:22 on this.
11:10:25 So it's not an ego thing.
11:10:27 It's about connecting to the community through that
11:10:28 channel.
11:10:29 With that said, I am going to make a motion to codify
11:10:32 the position of this council.
11:10:34 It's my understanding we don't have to authority to
11:10:37 initiate a lawsuit ourselves without the mayor.
11:10:39 But what I am going to do is make a motion to, by memo
11:10:44 from our chair, to urge the mayor to take immediate
11:10:49 action.
11:10:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Second.
11:10:53 >> And hire outside counsel if necessary, file the
11:10:57 injunction for -- petition for injunctive relief if
11:11:01 necessary and any other appropriate remedies that are
11:11:03 necessary at this time.
11:11:03 We have got to move forward.

11:11:04 This thing is moving very fast.
11:11:07 December will be upon us.
11:11:09 And they will have made the change.
11:11:10 And then an injunction will be irrelevant because they
11:11:13 will have already done it.
11:11:14 And then we'll be chasing after the train.
11:11:17 So my motion is to take strong action, a memo from our
11:11:21 chair to the mayor urging her to do this.
11:11:23 It sound like she's already on board.
11:11:25 And let's go forward on this.
11:11:26 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
11:11:28 Question on the motion.
11:11:30 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Has there been any discussion with the
11:11:32 county on this particular issue and have they taken
11:11:35 any position on it?
11:11:37 The reason I raise that --
11:11:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I accept that as a friendly
11:11:41 amendment.
11:11:41 Let's urge the mayor to contact all the county and all
11:11:44 the other appropriate local governments and get them
11:11:46 on board, too.
11:11:47 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Thank you.

11:11:48 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
11:11:49 (Motion carried).
11:11:54 It's not a motion but I would like to send out a plea
11:11:56 to Bright House from the community asking them to
11:11:58 reconsider not changing the channels.
11:12:03 They heard from the community and they should have
11:12:05 some type of feeling from the community.
11:12:08 We spend a lot of money with Bright House.
11:12:10 There should be some kind of consideration.
11:12:12 If they don't change those two.
11:12:15 If they can change all the rest but keep those same
11:12:17 the county and the city where they are, I think that
11:12:20 would be helpful.
11:12:20 So I am sending this out to Bright House.
11:12:23 Please listen to this community and don't change it.
11:12:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And the community needs to keep
11:12:27 contacting Bright House as well.
11:12:28 Keep the pressure up.
11:12:29 >> Call them and tell them you don't want them to
11:12:32 change it and you can't afford it. This is my plea to
11:12:34 the community.
11:12:36 Item number 112.

11:12:39 We did that one.
11:12:40 113.
11:12:48 >>> It's a memo.
11:12:48 >> So moved.
11:12:49 >> Second.
11:12:50 (Motion carried).
11:12:50 >>CHAIRMAN: Item 114.
11:12:53 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.
11:13:02 I'm here also to speak briefly as to item number 114.
11:13:07 It is our view that the situation is as described the
11:13:11 last time we came before council.
11:13:13 And as you also know, there's not anything currently
11:13:16 pending before council for action.
11:13:19 It is my than opinion that we need to be careful
11:13:21 because I think further public discussion can serve no
11:13:25 fruitful purpose and could serve only to create
11:13:27 potential problems for the city.
11:13:30 What I would recommend and what I would propose to do
11:13:32 is that we have no further public discussion on this
11:13:34 issue and that we consult in private with regard to
11:13:40 the issue that this council has with regard to the
11:13:43 process, and what we should do or not do at this point

11:13:49 forward.
11:13:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: David, I respect your opinion in
11:13:54 that regard.
11:13:54 We don't want to taint the land use or the zoning
11:13:56 process either one.
11:13:59 The only thing I would suggest, and I hope that you're
11:14:02 on board with this, is it's my understanding that
11:14:06 there's a comp plan amendment that's coming forward,
11:14:08 and we have been told by your staff as well as others
11:14:12 that that comp plan amendment change would apply to
11:14:15 any of the three applicants, or the three folks who
11:14:18 are involved, and that if we make that change, then
11:14:23 it's not going to -- it's not going to be organization
11:14:27 specific.
11:14:28 So I'm comfortable with moving forward with that.
11:14:31 But then I want to make sure that the zoning does not
11:14:33 get to us in advance of all the final agreements
11:14:36 getting to us on whatever organization we end up going
11:14:40 forward with.
11:14:41 So in terms of sequence and process, I would hope that
11:14:45 first we get the land use done, fine.
11:14:47 We don't have a problem with that.

11:14:49 Then we would have the agreements associated with the
11:14:54 corporation that we are going to deal with.
11:14:56 And then the rezoning would come after that.
11:14:58 Is that your understanding?
11:14:59 >> Yes, sir.
11:15:00 What I would propose we do is obviously you have to
11:15:04 consider the comprehensive plan application on its
11:15:08 terms, which is essentially your quasi-legislative
11:15:12 capacity.
11:15:12 And what I would propose to do is provide you a
11:15:15 written summary of what I understand exactly needs to
11:15:19 occur under the MOU and the other applicable
11:15:22 provisions so that you know exactly what will be
11:15:25 coming before you for action, and what the applicable
11:15:28 standards will be on that.
11:15:30 So I'm going to go back through these documents.
11:15:34 I hope to have most of that done by today.
11:15:35 But things being what they are around here, and I will
11:15:39 propose, so we simplify things, that we have literally
11:15:44 a letter from me that summarizes write believe we are,
11:15:47 what needs to occur, and what you need to do in those
11:15:51 regards.

11:15:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But sequentially we are not going
11:15:56 to see the rezoning before we ratify the group, you
11:16:01 know, the group, and N that decision.
11:16:05 Or can you answer that today?
11:16:07 >> I would rather talk with you about that in private
11:16:10 because there's some complexities there that I'm
11:16:12 concerned about.
11:16:16 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Well, I will only speak to the process
11:16:18 and to those who came this morning asking us to forget
11:16:23 the process, so to speak.
11:16:25 I will tell you, and Mr. Smith and to this board, I
11:16:28 stress this again, that process is important, okay?
11:16:32 And that whoever decided, or any of you decided for
11:16:37 some reason that the end justifies the means, or that
11:16:40 the outcome justifies what was done by bypassing is
11:16:45 not acceptable.
11:16:46 I will say that if that happens then you are going to
11:16:50 hear me kicking and hollering and screaming real loud.
11:16:55 That should not happen.
11:16:56 I am going to follow the charter and everybody else is
11:16:58 going to follow the charter, okay?
11:16:59 I am going to follow the process and everybody else

11:17:01 should follow the process.
11:17:03 And this whole idea, well, let's overlook it this
11:17:06 time.
11:17:07 Well, you know, we have done it that way all the time,
11:17:11 we have been doing it this way.
11:17:12 No.
11:17:13 If there's a process, we need to govern ourselves
11:17:16 accordingly.
11:17:16 Because that's what gets us in trouble.
11:17:18 Also legally with lawsuits, when we don't follow our
11:17:21 own process.
11:17:22 And so, therefore, I am going to raise questions that
11:17:27 come before council in manipulate purview, if I have
11:17:30 questions, I will be raised.
11:17:32 Not talking to be wasting time.
11:17:34 But if I have legitimate concerns I am going to raise
11:17:36 them and I expect to get an answer.
11:17:38 But I also want to understand, process is important.
11:17:40 When you follow the process, it will keep you out of
11:17:43 trouble.
11:17:44 And when you vary from that, that's when we get in
11:17:48 trouble.

11:17:49 So I want to be clear.
11:17:52 Okay, let's go.
11:17:55 No, I'm not on that bandwagon.
11:17:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Mulhern.
11:17:59 >>MARY MULHERN: Thank you.
11:18:00 That took care of some of what I had to say.
11:18:04 David, I'm very disappointed because the last time we
11:18:07 talked about this, you agreed with me, it was such a
11:18:11 great moment.
11:18:12 Because I didn't even believe it.
11:18:13 I couldn't even -- you agreeing with me, and my
11:18:19 question was about whether we had followed the process
11:18:21 and whether we had followed the written process of the
11:18:28 RFP, which is referred to in the memorandum of
11:18:31 understanding.
11:18:32 So I just want to say that I'm sorry that we don't
11:18:36 agree anymore.
11:18:37 And I want to speak to the people from West Tampa who
11:18:44 were here today because I want to make it clear to
11:18:46 them that I -- and I don't think anyone else on
11:18:48 council was making any kind of judgment or
11:18:51 recommendation about any of those proposals.

11:18:55 We all want to see West Tampa prosper, we want to see
11:18:59 great economic development.
11:19:00 We just want to do it the right way.
11:19:02 And we felt that we were, for some reason, by some
11:19:10 omission, left out of our part of the process.
11:19:13 That was our only question.
11:19:14 And I just want to you know that we want what's best
11:19:18 for you.
11:19:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Now we go to item 115.
11:19:23 We have a motion made that we will have our closed
11:19:26 session at what time?
11:19:28 1:30.
11:19:30 Okay.
11:19:32 >>MARTIN SHELBY: After you return from the closed
11:19:34 session at 1:55.
11:19:36 >>CHAIRMAN: All right.
11:19:37 We go to our public hearing for second reading.
11:19:43 >>MARTIN SHELBY: And I believe, Ms. Cole, I just want
11:19:46 to be confirming that item 116 was the second reading
11:19:49 of the original ordinance and not the one you provided
11:19:51 to council so that should be removed from the agenda.
11:19:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to strike 116.

11:19:56 >> Second.
11:19:57 (Motion carried).
11:19:58 >>GWEN MILLER: We go to our public hearings for items
11:20:03 117 through 127.
11:20:11 Anyone from the public that's going to speak upon 117
11:20:14 to 127, would you please stand and raise your right
11:20:16 hand?
11:20:16 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to open also.
11:20:20 >> Second.
11:20:21 (Oath administered by Clerk).
11:20:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to open.
11:20:26 All in favor of that motion say Aye.
11:20:30 Mr. Shelby.
11:20:30 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Since the city clerk has taken the
11:20:33 process of creating a City Council addendum, perhaps
11:20:35 you would like to do the clean-up on the public
11:20:38 hearings because they are listed such as you do for
11:20:41 the night meetings so you can tell the people who are
11:20:43 here now for the public hearings which are going to be
11:20:44 continued or removed.
11:20:46 I see items 127, 130, 139, 140, and 142.
11:20:53 And those refer to on your addendum.

11:20:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that came
11:21:00 to speak on those items 127, 130, 139, 141, 142?
11:21:07 >> Talk them individually so you can go back.
11:21:09 >> Anyone that came to speak on item 127?
11:21:14 Would you speak on the continuance?
11:21:15 Are you opposed to the continuance?
11:21:17 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If I can, council, that is necessary
11:21:19 to be continued because that is going to run in
11:21:21 conjunction with -- November 8th at 6 p.m.
11:21:26 >> We have a motion and second.
11:21:28 (Motion carried).
11:21:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Anybody that came to speak on item 130?
11:21:35 >>THE CLERK: Item 130 you need to open your public
11:21:45 hearing.
11:21:45 >> Move to open 130.
11:21:46 >> Move to open.
11:21:48 (Motion carried).
11:21:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Staff is requesting continuance.
11:21:57 (Motion carried).
11:21:58 >> Anyone that came to speak on 139?
11:22:01 >> I think this needs to be removed from the agenda
11:22:03 because it's already been rescheduled to November

11:22:04 15th at 10 a.m.
11:22:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to strike 139.
11:22:09 >> Second.
11:22:09 (Motion carried).
11:22:10 >>GWEN MILLER: 141.
11:22:16 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, this is asking to be held to
11:22:19 this afternoon.
11:22:19 At the rate we are going it appears the 11:25, it will
11:22:22 probably be taken up this afternoon.
11:22:23 If it is not, council has received a memorandum from
11:22:25 council member Caetano asking it be held till after
11:22:28 lunch.
11:22:29 >>GWEN MILLER: We will hold that then.
11:22:31 142.
11:22:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move to strike 142 from the agenda.
11:22:35 >> Second.
11:22:36 (Motion carried).
11:22:40 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We never did take care of 141
11:22:42 legally.
11:22:43 I believe somebody wants to speak on it.
11:22:45 >> We are going to hold till after lunch.
11:22:50 Go ahead.

11:22:51 >> I have an objection to the continuation because you
11:22:53 also have a closed session.
11:22:55 >> We are going to do it after lunch.
11:22:57 >> But you are going to have a closed session also.
11:22:59 >>GWEN MILLER: We are going to come back and finish.
11:23:02 >> The question will the continuation take place
11:23:05 before the closed session?
11:23:06 Then we'll have to wait --
11:23:07 >>GWEN MILLER: After the closed session.
11:23:10 >> Okay.
11:23:11 Well, I do have an objection to that.
11:23:16 >>GWEN MILLER: We go back to item 117.
11:23:19 Is there anyone in the public that wants to be speak
11:23:21 on item 117?
11:23:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to open 117.
11:23:26 >>CHAIRMAN: We did them already.
11:23:28 >>CHAIRMAN: Does anyone want to speak on 117?
11:23:31 >> Move to close 117.
11:23:32 >> Second.
11:23:33 (Motion carried).
11:23:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Move an ordinance approving an
11:23:42 historic preservation property tax exemption

11:23:44 application relative to the restoration, renovation or
11:23:47 rehabilitation of certain property owned by Michael M.
11:23:51 Eisenfeld and Beth L. Eisenfeld located at 813 south
11:23:56 Packwood Avenue Tampa, Florida in the Hyde Park
11:23:58 historic district based upon certain findings
11:24:01 providing for notice to the property appraiser of
11:24:03 Hillsborough County, providing for severability,
11:24:05 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict,
11:24:07 providing an effective date.
11:24:08 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
11:24:09 Question on the motion, Mr. Dingfelder?
11:24:11 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just for clarification that's
11:24:13 adoption for second reading.
11:24:14 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
11:24:16 Ms. Saul-Sena.
11:24:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I wanted to say it's a beautiful
11:24:19 renovation and this is one of the most pleasure
11:24:22 usually parts of our meeting is recognizing that the
11:24:24 investment that people made to their historic
11:24:28 property.
11:24:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second.
11:24:30 Voice roll call.

11:24:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
11:24:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes.
11:24:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
11:24:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
11:24:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
11:24:39 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern and Caetano
11:24:42 being absent.
11:24:42 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public wants to
11:24:45 speak on 118?
11:24:46 >> Move to close.
11:24:47 >> Second.
11:24:47 (Motion carried).
11:24:48 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I would like to move on second reading
11:24:53 an ordinance approving an historic preservation
11:24:55 property tax exemption application relative to the
11:24:58 restoration, renovation or rehabilitation of certain
11:25:00 property owned by CORUNA corporation located at
11:25:05 509-513 North Tampa Street, Tampa, Florida, in the
11:25:09 North Franklin downtown multiple properties historic
11:25:12 district, based upon certain findings, providing for
11:25:14 notice to the property appraiser of Hillsborough
11:25:16 County, providing for severability, providing for

11:25:19 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
11:25:21 effective date.
11:25:21 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
11:25:24 Voice roll call.
11:25:25 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
11:25:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes.
11:25:27 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
11:25:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
11:25:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
11:25:30 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern and Caetano
11:25:33 being absent.
11:25:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
11:25:35 wants to speak on item 119?
11:25:37 >> Move to close.
11:25:38 >> Second.
11:25:38 (Motion carried).
11:25:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Move the following ordinance for
11:25:44 second reading, an ordinance approving an historic
11:25:46 preservation property tax exemption application
11:25:48 relative to the restoration, renovation or
11:25:51 rehabilitation of certain property owned by bay
11:25:53 brewing company located at 2205 north 20th street

11:25:56 Tampa, Florida in the Ybor City district based upon
11:25:59 certain findings providing for notice to the property
11:26:01 appraiser of Hillsborough County providing for
11:26:02 severability, providing for repeal of all ordinances
11:26:04 in conflict, providing an effective date.
11:26:05 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
11:26:07 Voice roll call.
11:26:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
11:26:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes.
11:26:10 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
11:26:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
11:26:13 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
11:26:14 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern and Caetano
11:26:16 being absent.
11:26:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
11:26:18 wants to speak on item 120?
11:26:20 >> Move to close.
11:26:21 >> Second.
11:26:21 (Motion carried).
11:26:27 Ding move the following ordinance on second reading an
11:26:30 ordinance authorizing an encroachment a portion of an
11:26:33 existing building by Grand Central at Kennedy LLC over

11:26:37 a portion of the public right-of-way known as Madison
11:26:40 street as more particularly described herein subject
11:26:42 to certain terms, covenants, conditions and
11:26:45 agreements.
11:26:45 >> Voice roll call.
11:24:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
11:24:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes.
11:24:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
11:24:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
11:24:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
11:26:51 THE CLERK: Motion carried with Mulhern and Caetano
11:26:53 being absent.
11:26:54 >> Is there anyone in the public wants to speak on
11:26:56 item 121?
11:26:59 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land Development Coordination.
11:27:01 Under the new rezoning process of the changes in
11:27:03 between first and second reading that are now
11:27:06 permitted, it is for staff to come before you to let
11:27:08 you know that those items have been certified.
11:27:11 What I would like to do this morning is make a general
11:27:14 statement for all those that everybody certified that
11:27:19 I do not need to come up for every days.

11:27:22 Case.
11:27:22 121, file VO 736, item 122, V 07-41, 12, Z 06-106,
11:27:31 item 124, Z 07-67, and item 125, Z 07-68, all site
11:27:39 plans have been certified by the zoning administrator
11:27:41 and all changes have been made as motion by City
11:27:43 Council.
11:27:44 Item number 126 did not submit within the timely
11:27:50 fashion but what I would like to do is ask for a
11:27:53 continuance on that item for second reading till next
11:27:56 Thursday night at 6 p.m.
11:27:58 So it will be at 10:25 at 6 p.m. and we can go ahead.
11:28:02 They have now submitted those plans.
11:28:05 If it's your pleasure to continue that to that night.
11:28:08 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
11:28:11 I have a staff question that has just come to my
11:28:13 awareness.
11:28:15 When we put drive-through facilities next to
11:28:20 commercial structures that are then adjacent to
11:28:22 residential areas, there has been a problem that I
11:28:26 have noticed with lighting for the drive-through
11:28:30 having a negative impact on the adjacent residential
11:28:33 area, because the lighting is, you know, geared more

11:28:37 for commercial street but orphan backs up to
11:28:40 residential.
11:28:40 And I don't know if we are reviewing for that now.
11:28:44 But it's something that we need to review for in order
11:28:46 to protect the adjacent residential.
11:28:48 Is this something that we are currently reviewing for
11:28:51 or not?
11:28:52 >>> There are lighting standards, and often they are
11:28:55 asked that the lighting be directed a way from the
11:28:57 residential and I believe they do that as part of the
11:28:59 site.
11:29:00 >> I believe that the county has regulations that the
11:29:04 city doesn't have.
11:29:05 I don't think very effective regulations for
11:29:09 protecting the adjacent residential areas.
11:29:12 And maybe Ms. Cole can answer that -- Ms. Cole can
11:29:17 answer that.
11:29:18 It's something I am very concerned about.
11:29:19 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
11:29:20 If you are speaking about specifically 121, the
11:29:22 petitioner -- a note indicating they be shielded away
11:29:29 from the adjoining residential neighborhood.

11:29:31 I do want to point out our code has similar standards.
11:29:34 So I think this particular one would cover even more
11:29:38 with the note but as a general amount.
11:29:41 >> Okay.
11:29:42 What I would like to see in the future when we have
11:29:44 these drive throughs where it's adjacent to a
11:29:47 residential use, that we incorporate that note as sort
11:29:51 of a standard practice because I think we want to make
11:29:54 sure we are protecting the adjacent neighborhood.
11:29:56 Thank you for clarifying that.
11:29:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else like to speak?
11:30:00 >> Move to close.
11:30:01 >> Second.
11:30:02 (Motion carried).
11:30:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move to adopt the following
11:30:09 ordinance upon second reading, an ordinance approving
11:30:12 a special use permit S-2 approving a drive-through
11:30:15 bank in a CG commercial general zoning district in the
11:30:18 general vicinity of 3001 north Himes Avenue, 3411 west
11:30:23 Columbus drive, 3410 west Kathleen street in the city
11:30:26 of Tampa, Florida and more particularly described in
11:30:28 section 1 hereof providing an effective date.

11:30:30 >> I have a motion and second.
11:30:32 Voice roll call.
11:30:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
11:30:35 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes.
11:30:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
11:30:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
11:30:41 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
11:30:43 >> Motion carried with Mulhern and Caetano being
11:30:45 absent.
11:30:45 >> Is there anyone to speak on 122?
11:30:48 >> Move to close.
11:30:49 >> I have a note we were continuing 122?
11:30:54 >> 126.
11:30:55 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion say Aye.
11:30:57 Mr. Miranda?
11:30:58 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I move to adopt the following
11:31:00 ordinance upon second reading, an ordinance approving
11:31:02 a special use S-2 approving an offstreet accessory
11:31:06 church parking lot in RM-24 residential multifamily
11:31:10 zoning district in the general vicinity of 2417 and
11:31:13 2419 east Columbus drive in the city of Tampa, Florida
11:31:16 and as more particularly described in section 1 hereof

11:31:19 approving waivers as set forth here, providing an
11:31:22 effective date.
11:31:23 >> I have a motion and second.
11:31:24 Voice roll call.
11:31:26 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
11:31:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes.
11:31:28 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
11:31:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
11:31:29 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
11:31:31 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
11:31:33 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Caetano being absent.
11:31:36 >>CHAIRMAN: Anyone in the public to speak on item 123?
11:31:39 >> Move to close.
11:31:40 >> Second.
11:31:41 (Motion carried).
11:31:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to say everyone though I
11:31:45 wasn't here to vote on this I reviewed the proposal
11:31:47 and I was very concerned about the protection of the
11:31:50 Jackson house and I feel the petitioner came up with a
11:31:53 design that really enhances the Jackson house, it's
11:31:56 very attractive, and I'm very excited about it.
11:31:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Would you read that then?

11:32:01 >> Move the following ordinance on second read -- for
11:32:03 adoption on second reading.
11:32:05 An ordinance rezoning property in the general vicinity
11:32:07 of the south side of Zack Street, the west side of
11:32:09 Nebraska Avenue, and the north side of Twiggs Street
11:32:12 in the city of Tampa, Florida and more particularly
11:32:14 described in section 1 from zoning district
11:32:15 classification CBD2 central business district to CBD2
11:32:22 central business district mixed use office, retail,
11:32:25 residential, hotel, providing an effective date.
11:32:26 >> Motion and second.
11:24:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
11:24:32 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes.
11:24:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
11:24:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
11:24:35 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
11:32:28 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
11:32:32 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Caetano being absent.
11:32:36 >> Anyone in the public that wants to speak on item
11:32:38 124?
11:32:38 >> Move to close.
11:32:42 >> Second.

11:32:43 (Motion carried).
11:32:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to move the following
11:32:47 ordinance upon second reading, an ordinance rezoning
11:32:49 property in the general vicinity of 120 south Edison
11:32:52 Avenue and 909 west Cleveland street in the city of
11:32:56 Tampa, Florida and more particularly described in
11:33:01 section 1 from zoning district classifications RM-24
11:33:04 residential multifamily and PD planned development to
11:33:07 PD planned development, professional office, providing
11:33:10 an effective date.
11:33:11 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
11:33:12 Voice roll call.
11:33:13 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
11:33:14 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes.
11:33:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
11:33:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
11:33:17 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
11:33:18 >>MARY MULHERN: Yes.
11:33:22 >> Motion carried with Caetano being absent.
11:33:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone to speak on item 125?
11:33:26 >> Move to close.
11:33:27 >> Second.

11:33:27 (Motion carried).
11:33:28 >>MARY MULHERN:
11:33:34 >>GWEN MILLER: Would you read that please?
11:33:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: She voted no.
11:33:38 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I would like to move an ordinance on
11:33:40 second reading, rezoning property in the general
11:33:42 vicinity of 9302 north 28th street in the city of
11:33:46 Tampa, Florida more particularly described in section
11:33:47 1 from zoning district classification RS-60
11:33:50 residential family to PD planned development
11:33:55 single-family detached residential providing an
11:33:57 effective date.
11:34:00 >> Second.
11:34:00 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
11:34:02 Question on the motion.
11:34:03 Ms. Saul-Sena.
11:34:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: If you wouldn't mind.
11:34:06 Ms. Mulhern, if you can describe your concerns about
11:34:09 this.
11:34:10 I was not here at the first public reading.
11:34:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, I would just be concerned if
11:34:15 you have questions of that nature, not particularly

11:34:18 for this one, but if do you that after the public
11:34:20 hearing is closed I think it's more appropriate that
11:34:22 you do it before you close the public hearing to allow
11:34:24 the petitioner the opportunity to rebut or address --
11:34:27 >> I'm not asking the petitioner.
11:34:29 I'm asking a fellow council member.
11:34:31 >> But you are asking her to relate to you what she
11:34:35 heard at a previous public hearing.
11:34:36 And there's not an issue with that.
11:34:38 I just think that it's more appropriately done when
11:34:46 petitioner is present and --
11:34:50 >> Recommending to reopen the public hearing?
11:34:53 >> I move we reopen the public hearing.
11:34:56 >>
11:34:56 (Motion carried).
11:34:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Okay.
11:34:58 I would like to ask Ms. Mulhern why she voted against
11:35:03 it.
11:35:03 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm just reviewing the record, too.
11:35:06 Staff found that it was inconsistent with the future
11:35:10 land use.
11:35:10 And I don't remember it that well.

11:35:14 But I think my problem with it was they were squeezing
11:35:22 on too small a lot.
11:35:23 >> Reading the record of the staff, and that's what
11:35:26 they said.
11:35:27 >>> Yes, 44 feet for each lot.
11:35:31 And it seemed like a bad precedent to set for the
11:35:36 neighborhood that we were going to be squeezing all
11:35:37 these houses into lots that weren't big enough.
11:35:43 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair.
11:35:44 In view of the fact that we brought up one
11:35:47 recommendation, I believe there was two
11:35:49 recommendations, one by our staff, one by the Planning
11:35:52 Commission.
11:35:53 What was the Planning Commission recommendation?
11:35:55 >>GWEN MILLER: They had no problem with it.
11:35:59 >> I would just like to read that into the record.
11:36:08 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land Development Coordination.
11:36:10 The Planning Commission found this rezoning consistent
11:36:14 with the goals, objectives and the policies of the
11:36:18 City of Tampa comprehensive plan.
11:36:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you very much.
11:36:21 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to close the public hearing.

11:36:23 >>MARTIN SHELBY: If petitioner wishes to speak to
11:36:26 anything.
11:36:27 >>GWEN MILLER: Is the petitioner here?
11:36:28 Do you want to speak on that?
11:36:30 No.
11:36:31 We need to close the public hearing.
11:36:33 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved to close.
11:36:34 >> Second.
11:36:34 (Motion carried)
11:36:35 >> Do we need to read it again?
11:36:40 >> Yes.
11:36:41 >> Read it again.
11:36:42 We have a motion and second.
11:36:45 Voice roll call.
11:36:46 Item number 125.
11:36:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No.
11:36:50 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Yes.
11:36:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Yes.
11:36:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Yes.
11:36:52 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Yes.
11:36:53 >>MARY MULHERN: No.
11:36:54 >>THE CLERK: Motion carried with Saul-Sena and Mulhern

11:36:57 voting no and Caetano being absent.
11:37:01 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 126 you need to continue to
11:37:04 October --
11:37:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is that going to have to be reopened?
11:37:10 The question is, do you want to -- oh, it's really a
11:37:16 staff issue.
11:37:21 >> Move to continue.
11:37:22 >> Second.
11:37:22 (Motion carried).
11:37:23 >>CHAIRMAN: Item 128.
11:37:31 Oh continued second public hearing.
11:37:32 Does anybody want to speak on that?
11:37:34 Staff?
11:37:36 >> 127?
11:37:38 >> 128.
11:37:40 >> You will need to open.
11:37:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved to open 128.
11:37:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Does anyone in the public want to speak
11:37:48 on 128?
11:37:49 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is the petitioner present?
11:37:50 >>GWEN MILLER: We need to close.
11:37:56 >> Move to close.

11:37:57 >> Second.
11:37:58 (Motion carried).
11:37:58 >> This is a super majority vote so you will need at
11:38:06 least five.
11:38:07 >> Why don't we wait?
11:38:09 >> We have to continue that one until later.
11:38:12 Until Reverend Scott comes back.
11:38:14 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Do you want to continue that?
11:38:16 >> We'll just hold it until Mr. Scott comes back.
11:38:22 Okay, would you read that please?
11:38:24 >> Move the following ordinance for second reading an
11:38:27 ordinance amending Tampa comprehensive plan future
11:38:29 land use element, future land use map for locate
11:38:32 located in the general vicinity of east Martin Luther
11:38:34 King Jr. Boulevard and 34th street for residential
11:38:40 10 and heavy commercial 24 to community mixed use 35
11:38:44 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict
11:38:47 providing for severability, providing an effective
11:38:47 date.
11:38:48 >>GWEN MILLER: I ask my council members to realize
11:38:50 this is a property that has no right-of-way, they have
11:38:52 no ingress, no egress, they are driving on a dirt road

11:38:57 beside a community that lives there, the petitioner is
11:39:00 not here, the petitioner continued and continued it,
11:39:04 promised to buy some property.
11:39:07 He's not here.
11:39:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Did you want to again ask for the
11:39:09 record if he's here?
11:39:11 Is the petitioner here on item 128?
11:39:13 I see no response.
11:39:16 >>GWEN MILLER: It has been continued and continued.
11:39:19 >>THOMAS SCOTT: They came one time.
11:39:20 >>THE CLERK: I believe on July 19th he was present
11:39:23 and asked for another continuance.
11:39:25 >>GWEN MILLER: He promised that he's going to buy the
11:39:27 property so that he can make egress and ingress.
11:39:30 He has not bought the property.
11:39:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: A quick question of staff.
11:39:41 Kathy, have we heard from this petitioner or anybody
11:39:45 in your staff heard from this petitioner?
11:39:47 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
11:39:50 We do not process plan amendments.
11:39:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is anybody here from the Planning
11:39:56 Commission to speak to this?

11:39:57 I do recall this, and I do recall, Madam Chair's
11:40:00 concerns, that you spoke eloquently to the petitioner
11:40:03 and told them to come back and address them, and come
11:40:07 back and address them.
11:40:08 So I'll withdraw my motion.
11:40:09 >> I move we give them one year and forget about it.
11:40:14 If they don't want to come before their own petition,
11:40:18 who am I to -- I don't work for him.
11:40:21 I don't know if it is or not.
11:40:23 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, it would be my
11:40:24 recommendation to, in order to keep this moving along,
11:40:28 if council wishes to deny he can always reapply.
11:40:34 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Move to deny.
11:40:35 Move to deny.
11:40:36 >> Second.
11:40:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Motion and second to deny.
11:40:39 All in favor of that motion say Aye.
11:40:40 Opposed, Nay.
11:40:41 (Motion carried).
11:40:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to open 129.
11:40:46 >> Second.
11:40:47 (Motion carried).

11:40:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Do we have anybody?
11:40:53 Staff?
11:40:54 >> Kathy Ginster, assistant city attorney, legal
11:40:59 department, here on 129, this is the first of two
11:41:07 required public hearings on ab brownfield project
11:41:09 called Westshore Landings 1 which is proposed to
11:41:12 provide affordable housing.
11:41:14 The next public hearing is scheduled for November
11:41:19 8th, where City Council will be asked to approve
11:41:22 the site as a brownfield.
11:41:25 And staff report and application is on file by the two
11:41:31 applicants which are Westshore Community Development
11:41:32 Corporation, and Hillsborough County.
11:41:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We are voting today on 129, right?
11:41:40 We don't vote on 129?
11:41:42 >>> No, you do not.
11:41:43 Just for your information, the president of the
11:41:46 Westshore Community Development Corporation, Mr.
11:41:49 Kelly, is here today if you have any questions for him
11:41:51 regarding this.
11:41:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Again, I noticed a couple weeks ago,
11:41:58 this is over on Spruce Street, the old jail site,

11:42:04 where it was county property, and we gave it over to
11:42:09 the Westshore Community Development Corporation to
11:42:13 place in a land trust for affordable housing, and just
11:42:17 a very good project with the county, the city, the
11:42:19 state, and federal government working together and
11:42:22 working together on this particular project.
11:42:24 So I'm very familiar with that, had numerous
11:42:28 discussions with Mr. Rotella on this particular
11:42:31 project.
11:42:31 So I look forward to this being approved and moving
11:42:35 forward in the community, a report that came down and
11:42:41 spoke in support of it.
11:42:43 I just want to put that on the record.
11:42:44 >>> We will be back before council on November 8th
11:42:47 at 5:30 p.m. will be the second scheduled public
11:42:49 hearing, and at that time City Council will be
11:42:52 requesting to approve the designation.
11:42:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
11:42:55 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Is it necessary now to ask if there's
11:42:58 anybody who wishes to speak on this?
11:43:00 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
11:43:01 wants to speak on item 129?

11:43:06 Thank you.
11:43:07 >>MARTIN SHELBY: You can close the public hearing.
11:43:09 >> Move to close.
11:43:10 >> Second.
11:43:10 (Motion carried).
11:43:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public going to
11:43:14 speak on items 130 to 141?
11:43:18 Would you please stand and raise your right hand?
11:43:19 (Oath administered by Clerk).
11:43:30 >>CHAIRMAN: Mr. Shelby?
11:43:33 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Yes.
11:43:33 Council, I ask that all written communications that
11:43:36 have been available for public inspection in council's
11:43:38 office be received and failed into the record prior to
11:43:41 action.
11:43:44 Motion and second, please.
11:43:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
11:43:46 >> Second.
11:43:46 (Motion carried).
11:43:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Are you finished?
11:43:52 I would like to makes a -- make a statement we are
11:43:54 going to stop at 12:00, recess for lunch at then come

11:43:58 back at 1:55.
11:44:01 So we need to open item number 131.
11:44:05 >> So moved.
11:44:06 >> Second.
11:44:06 (Motion carried).
11:44:07 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
11:44:13 I will be filling in for the wet zoning today.
11:44:17 Case WZ 07-79, for the golf course.
11:44:21 If you recall about a year ago we did a code amendment
11:44:23 and created a new category for PGC for public golf
11:44:28 course.
11:44:28 That definition is noted in your staff report.
11:44:31 It is for the sale of beer, wine and liquor, sale and
11:44:35 consumption from mobile carts and temporary bars on a
11:44:37 public golf course which is owned and operated by a
11:44:40 public entity having at least nine holes and at least
11:44:43 35 acres of land.
11:44:47 It was processed about a year ago, and this is the wet
11:44:49 zoning request for that 4 PGC category.
11:44:53 Staff has no objections to it.
11:44:55 You will note that ordinance 5890-A was granted to be
11:45:01 establishment for the clubhouse and the restaurant for

11:45:04 4(COP-R).
11:45:10 You will note the aerial that I provided at the golf
11:45:13 course.
11:45:18 And then the different tracts within the area.
11:45:20 Staffer had no objections and Tampa Police Department
11:45:22 reviewed as well.
11:45:23 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder, question.
11:45:25 >> I think it's been standard practice on this golf
11:45:31 course as well as most where you have people riding
11:45:33 around in the cart and they sell awe beer or whatever.
11:45:35 Beer carts.
11:45:37 So this is not unusual for the city.
11:45:39 But I'm wondering about -- we don't have that many
11:45:42 private golf courses within the city limits but we do
11:45:45 have a few.
11:45:45 And I'm wondering, are they already wet zoned out on
11:45:49 their property?
11:45:52 Do we know?
11:45:53 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I can't answer that.
11:45:56 >> Rogers Park already has it.
11:45:59 >> Those are public courses but it might be something
11:46:02 you want to look into or talk to those golf course to

11:46:05 make sure they are doing the right thing.
11:46:10 >>CHAIRMAN: Officer Miller.
11:46:11 >>>Overs Miller, City of Tampa police department, we
11:46:14 have no objections to this wet zoning.
11:46:15 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
11:46:16 >>> Good morning.
11:46:21 I'm John Larocca, agent for the petitioner with Murphy
11:46:24 LaRocca consulting group, 101 East Kennedy Boulevard.
11:46:27 As Kathy indicated this is an application for the Babe
11:46:31 Zaharias municipal golf course to utilize the four
11:46:34 public golf course, application to allow the operation
11:46:38 of a golf cart and the sale of alcoholic beverage
11:46:41 during certain times of the day when the course is
11:46:45 operational.
11:46:45 We sent notices out to 750 adjacent property owners
11:46:50 and I didn't receive any phone calls.
11:46:53 We also received letters that I would like to submit
11:46:56 into the record from the Forest Hills neighborhood
11:46:59 association Board of Directors, the president of the
11:47:02 Forest Hills neighborhood association, the Forest
11:47:04 Hills association, the Babe Zaharias ladies golf
11:47:11 association and the president of the Shepherd all in

11:47:16 favor of this application.
11:47:17 We have some representatives with the applicant here
11:47:19 to answer any questions that may come up regarding the
11:47:22 place.
11:47:22 But we respectfully request that you approve this
11:47:25 application.
11:47:26 >> Let me see if there's anyone in opposition.
11:47:28 Anyone in the public that came to speak against 131?
11:47:33 Anyone against it?
11:47:40 >>> I'm Beth Keaney.
11:47:42 I live in for effort hills neighborhood also, and we
11:47:45 have one of the access roads that goes right to the
11:47:49 Babe Zaharias golf course.
11:47:52 It's the traffic basically over time because other
11:47:56 access to the golf course is on roads like country
11:47:59 club drive, and they all have speed humps.
11:48:02 Well, if you live off of North Boulevard, a quick way
11:48:05 to get there by Edison Avenue which is a 25
11:48:08 mile-an-hour speed limit, and babies is a jewel.
11:48:11 We love that golf course especially with the
11:48:13 renovations.
11:48:14 It's become very popular from other people in the city

11:48:17 that aren't aware of the speed limit.
11:48:19 Even though it's within a few feet of North Boulevard,
11:48:22 but that's a quick way to get to the golf course with
11:48:26 no speed humps at all.
11:48:27 And I just request that you guys look at the safety
11:48:30 issue of increased people going to the golf course
11:48:33 that also would drink at that time, and leave, and we
11:48:36 already have a traffic issue.
11:48:40 I have a Tampa city government web site as well as
11:48:44 asked different council members to look into it for us
11:48:47 and they did propose a traffic study, and the way the
11:48:49 traffic studies work is we were informed they have to
11:48:52 have 85% of people going over 25 miles an hour.
11:48:56 And what you see is a lot of people coming into the
11:48:59 neighborhood.
11:49:00 The residents that live there are going to go that
11:49:02 speed limit.
11:49:03 So we are going to have like 50% more that aren't.
11:49:06 And 85% stat success pretty high to achieve to have
11:49:11 you guys look at these issues.
11:49:13 We would just like increased signage, you know, speed
11:49:16 humps, and maybe before this issue is brought up, you

11:49:19 know, it is a jewel, we like the golf course, but we
11:49:22 feel there's a safety issue.
11:49:25 We have been told there's no chance of getting
11:49:26 sidewalks in the area.
11:49:28 There's no sidewalk.
11:49:30 People love walking around the golf course with their
11:49:32 dogs, their children go to Adams Jr. high, and -- the
11:49:38 elementary school there and you have to walk and
11:49:41 there's no sidewalks.
11:49:43 We have to walk in our yard, because there is a blind
11:49:45 curve right there.
11:49:46 So those are the issues.
11:49:47 We would like to you look at the traffic going to the
11:49:50 golf course first.
11:49:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Does a representative want to speak?
11:50:02 >>> Jeanette baker speaking for Babe Zaharis golf
11:50:09 course.
11:50:10 We have looked at the other golf courses at which
11:50:13 Tampa Sports Authority operates on behalf of the city.
11:50:15 Within the last five years there have been absolutely
11:50:16 zero alcohol related incidents with respect to
11:50:19 traffic, and there has not been any, at babies without

11:50:23 the beverage cart, as well.
11:50:31 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I have a wild question.
11:50:33 I don't golf.
11:50:33 Do beverage carts drive on the grass or do they drive
11:50:36 on sidewalks or the streets?
11:50:37 >> No.
11:50:41 >>> They generally stay on the cart path and the
11:50:44 operator is over the age of 21 and trained in
11:50:47 providing beverage service or snack service, and in
11:50:50 fact relatively 40% of the beverages that we sell at
11:50:55 the other two golf courses are nonalcoholic, and 50%
11:51:00 are beer and 8% are other.
11:51:03 So they stay on the cart path and they are trained to
11:51:06 provide service and not overserve anyone.
11:51:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I took up golf when I was 65 and
11:51:16 I'll never shoot that score.
11:51:18 But let me say that a lot of people look drunk when
11:51:22 they are playing golf.
11:51:24 [ Laughter ]
11:51:24 And I more likely fall into that category.
11:51:30 Because there are things called a fairway.
11:51:32 You are supposed to hit the ball on the fairway.

11:51:34 But us drunks are in the woods looking for the balls.
11:51:39 So I don't want you to think we are drunk because we
11:51:41 are off the fairway looking for the golf balls.
11:51:44 You play that way everyone though you don't drink and
11:51:46 I'm one of them.
11:51:48 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else like to speak?
11:51:50 >> Madam Chair person, my name is Vincent Osborne, I
11:52:01 live in Forest Hills, a former president of the
11:52:03 Florida -- excuse me, of the Forest Hills neighborhood
11:52:07 association.
11:52:07 I also work very hard with you, my council members,
11:52:11 and the Sports Authority to improve the golf course a
11:52:14 few years ago.
11:52:15 You may remember me.
11:52:16 I now serve, still serve there, with the association.
11:52:20 I represent the golf advisory committee where we work
11:52:24 very closely with the Sports Authority.
11:52:28 I work with penny Simms, their PGA golf professional.
11:52:32 To work with us.
11:52:33 We have unanimously, our board unanimously approved
11:52:38 allowing this.
11:52:38 We have over 1100 households within the boundaries of

11:52:41 our neighborhood.
11:52:42 We have gotten not one complaint saying we do not want
11:52:45 this.
11:52:45 It is traditional.
11:52:47 On almost every golf course, every country club I
11:52:50 belonged to, every public course, you have a cart
11:52:53 going around.
11:52:54 The objections -- there are no objections.
11:52:56 The questions we did raise, Sports Authority, and Mr.
11:53:00 Simms, and that was how would alcohol be delivered to
11:53:04 a patron.
11:53:06 And it was totally controlled.
11:53:07 It's not something they are going to be buying six
11:53:09 little tiny bottles and running off in the golf
11:53:12 course.
11:53:12 It's one drink at a time where the bottle is
11:53:15 controlled and taken back and giving them a drink.
11:53:17 A beer can is a beer can.
11:53:19 We also have plenty of receptacles around the golf
11:53:22 course to be able to put our trash in.
11:53:24 We have never had a problem with trash on the golf
11:53:26 course.

11:53:26 We have a bigger problem with just Tampa citizens
11:53:30 driving in the neighborhood throwing something out a
11:53:32 window than we do on the golf course.
11:53:34 It is a very well maintained golf course and they have
11:53:36 been very professional and helped us and answered
11:53:38 every question we have had.
11:53:39 And we address this in front of our entire membership,
11:53:41 and overwhelmingly approved by our membership.
11:53:45 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just have a question.
11:53:51 Where do the revenues from these sails go?
11:53:54 >>> The revenues from the drinks will go towards the
11:53:56 Sports Authority for the golf course.
11:53:58 One of the reasons we are very happy with it, you are
11:54:01 going to be selling drinks out there, that's where it
11:54:05 goes now.
11:54:05 We think that obviously there will be more drinks
11:54:08 sold.
11:54:08 But anything that increase it is cash flow to the golf
11:54:11 course that helps to continue to improve that piece of
11:54:14 property that the City of Tampa owns is very
11:54:17 beneficial as you know.
11:54:19 >> My question would be the neighbor, there are

11:54:26 transportation issues in the neighborhood, she would
11:54:28 love to see speed bumps or additional signage I.don't
11:54:31 know if that's a city function or Sports Authority.
11:54:34 But perhaps some of the revenues are generated --
11:54:38 >>> Sports Authority put in stop signs at every
11:54:40 crossing, as you go from one hole to another.
11:54:43 There's a stop sign for the golfers to pay attention
11:54:45 to.
11:54:45 You will find that most of the neighbors, golfers, we
11:54:49 stop and let them go first, just in case, they don't
11:54:52 think they see us, we want to make sure so we just let
11:54:55 them go across.
11:54:56 Traffic functions addressing are real.
11:54:59 It is a city problem.
11:55:03 An elbow used as a cut-through and people speed.
11:55:07 There used to be stop signs to stop people from
11:55:09 speeding there. They removed them and turned them on
11:55:14 green.
11:55:14 Actually it should be a four way stop to really slow
11:55:17 up the traffic and people find when you have a speed
11:55:19 bump, it's like water, it seeks its own level, oh,
11:55:24 let's go somewhere else, and they shoot across that.

11:55:27 Anyplace that doesn't have it you see people speeding
11:55:29 along.
11:55:29 We have asked for many traffic controls particularly
11:55:32 on elbow and a couple other areas around there.
11:55:34 But it is still a city neighborhood.
11:55:37 I moved back from Portland Oregon to come back here,
11:55:42 came back from Portland organize began when I retired
11:55:44 from the corporate world.
11:55:45 I lived in Carrollwood.
11:55:47 And actually sold my town home there and my family and
11:55:50 I moved back to a home that we had owned since 1960.
11:55:54 I liver on the 15th hole.
11:55:57 Rehab the house.
11:55:57 Because it was still 1960 style.
11:56:00 So you see a lot of that going up in our neighborhood.
11:56:02 When you approve the golf course, you notice people
11:56:04 came in there and investing and the home values went
11:56:07 up, cash revenues increased so we were pleased with
11:56:11 that.
11:56:11 That was my argument for it in the first place.
11:56:13 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I apologize to the gentleman.
11:56:16 I think I hit his house a couple ever times.

11:56:19 And --
11:56:22 >> I have balls sitting here now.
11:56:24 >> But I haven't played much golf lately, especially
11:56:30 at the babe.
11:56:30 But the last time I played a few months ago, there was
11:56:33 an extreme individual who had to be mentally sick who
11:56:37 got on one of the greens and started making wheelies.
11:56:41 And I don't know if anybody is here to talk on that.
11:56:46 I know that's not an item on the agenda today but I
11:56:48 want to know if that individual was ever prosecuted
11:56:51 because from what I understand they knew he was and I
11:56:54 want to make sure that these things are properties are
11:56:59 beautiful and gorgeous, and not only there, anywhere
11:57:03 that the Sports Authority has.
11:57:05 We have all this vandalism done.
11:57:07 And I want to make sure if somebody does the crime
11:57:09 they do the crime.
11:57:10 >> I agree.
11:57:11 The association has voted exactly that same way.
11:57:15 It's hard to catch the people.
11:57:17 When do you know who they are, they are turned in.
11:57:19 Since you approved the funds, or the poles, the

11:57:23 barriers, they cut it way down.
11:57:25 Because now after high school games on Friday nights
11:57:27 we don't have kids celebrating out there. But a lot
11:57:29 of it has been very, very much controlled.
11:57:32 Thank you.
11:57:33 >>GWEN MILLER: Would anyone else like to be speak?
11:57:35 >>> Mr. Miranda, to answer your question I am going to
11:57:37 ask Kenny Simms golf pro at the course to answer your
11:57:40 question.
11:57:40 >> I beat him the other day playing cards.
11:57:45 >> To answer your question --
11:57:48 >>CHAIRMAN: Put your name on the record.
11:57:49 >>> Professional governor, Babe Zaharis golf course.
11:57:55 We have had some vandalism he at the golf course.
11:57:58 Before we had the renovation project several years ago
11:58:01 vandalism was systemic.
11:58:04 It happened just about every time there was a Friday
11:58:07 or Saturday night.
11:58:08 Vandalism has decreased substantially on a large part
11:58:12 by the renovation project that we did.
11:58:17 And in regards to the damage that you saw on number 10
11:58:21 green, I think it was that you saw, the last time you

11:58:24 were out, we did make an arrest about two months ago.
11:58:30 We think it might have been the same vandal that made
11:58:36 the damage that you saw, because the entrance to the
11:58:38 golf course and the tire size was very similar, and
11:58:45 that's being handled in the court system right now.
11:58:49 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If I may, this gentleman is very
11:58:52 straightforward. In fact one day I was playing golf
11:58:54 on another golf course and I said, can he use my
11:58:58 driver?
11:58:59 And he D.and he gave it back to me and said, no wonder
11:59:02 you can't play, this company only makes tennis
11:59:05 rackets.
11:59:06 [ Laughter ]
11:59:06 >>CHAIRMAN: Would anyone else like to speak?
11:59:12 We need to close.
11:59:13 >> So moved to close.
11:59:14 >> Motion and second to close.
11:59:15 (Motion carried)
11:59:17 Ms. Mulhern, would you read that, please?
11:59:19 >> Move an ordinance for first reading consideration,
11:59:26 an ordinance repealing ordinance number 5890-A making
11:59:29 lawful the sale of beverages containing alcohol

11:59:31 regardless of alcoholic content, beer, wine and
11:59:34 liquor, 4 PGC, for consumption on the premises only in
11:59:37 connection with a public golf course at or from that
11:59:41 certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 11412
11:59:44 north Forest Hills drive, Tampa, Florida as more
11:59:48 particularly described in section 3 hereof, providing
11:59:50 for repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
11:59:53 effective date.
11:59:54 >> We have a motion and second.
11:59:55 (Motion carried)
12:00:05 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to request the
12:00:07 transportation department look into creating four way
12:00:09 stops on the streets that this gentleman mentioned,
12:00:13 elbow and tee green and report back to us in 60 days.
12:00:19 >> Motion and second.
12:00:20 (Motion carried).
12:00:20 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, it is lunch time now.
12:00:23 If council should reconvene for the closed session, it
12:00:27 is necessary under Florida law that you reconvene here
12:00:30 in chambers at 1:30, announce the closed session, and
12:00:33 then reconvene at that location.
12:00:36 >>GWEN MILLER: We will now be in recess until 1:30.

12:00:38 (City Council in recess)
12:00:39


Tampa City Council
Thursday, October 18, 2007
1:30 p.m. Session


DISCLAIMER:
The following represents an unedited version of
realtime captioning which should neither be relied
upon for complete accuracy nor used as a verbatim
transcript.
The original of this file was produced in all capital
letters and any variation thereto may be a result of
third party edits and software compatibility issues.
Any person who needs a verbatim transcript of the
proceedings may need to hire a court reporter.



13:32:45 [Sounding gavel]
13:32:46 >>CHAIRMAN: Tampa City Council is called back to
13:32:47 order.
13:32:48 Roll call.
13:32:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
13:32:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Here.
13:32:55 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
13:32:56 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Here.

13:32:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
13:32:57 >>CHAIRMAN: I would like to put on the record that
13:33:01 notice is hereby given that Tampa City Council is
13:33:06 going into closed section pursuant to section
13:33:09 286.011(8) Florida statutes, approximately 30 minutes.
13:33:13 The meeting will convene in City Council chambers --
13:33:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Reconvene.
13:33:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Convene right now and then go
13:33:26 upstairs.
13:33:26 >> And move to the conference room on the eighth
13:33:30 floor, City Hall, for closed session, the Council will
13:33:30 discuss settlement negotiations, strategy session,
13:33:33 related to litigation expenditures for the case of the
13:33:36 City of Tampa versus City National Bank of Florida,
13:33:41 and Civitas Construction Company, case 2DO61383, 2nd
13:33:49 District Court of Appeals.
13:33:49 The meeting will be attended by councilwoman chair
13:33:53 Gwen Miller, council member Mary Mulhern, Linda
13:33:56 Saul-Sena, John Dingfelder, Thomas Scott, Charlie
13:33:59 Miranda, Joseph Caetano, David Smith, Marty Shelby,
13:34:03 Jerry Gewirtz, Rebecca Kert, and Richard Zabak. And
13:34:09 following the closed session the City Council will

13:34:12 reconvene in open session in the City Council chambers
13:34:14 so the chair can announce termination of the closed
13:34:16 session, and the council will take action deemed as
13:34:21 necessary.
13:34:21 We will now go into close session.
13:34:25 (City Council recessed)

















13:34:25
13:34:27 [Sounding gavel]
14:23:24 >>CHAIRMAN: Tampa City Council is called back to
14:23:25 order.
14:23:26 Roll call.
13:32:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Here.
13:32:54 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Here.
13:32:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Here.
13:32:55 >>MARY MULHERN: Here.
13:32:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Here.
14:23:32
14:23:33 >>GWEN MILLER: What is the pleasure of council?
14:23:42 Ms. Saul-Sena?
14:23:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
14:23:50 I would like for Mr. Dingfelder to try to articulate
14:23:53 what we discussed in our closed session.
14:23:57 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think I prefer to wait until Mr.
14:24:01 Smith comes and gives us a recommendation.
14:24:04 >> I second that.
14:24:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: If we can defer for a minute until
14:24:08 he gets here.
14:24:44 >>DAVID SMITH: City attorney.

14:24:45 As you know, we have just finished the closed session.
14:24:50 And if the council is prepared to take any action,
14:24:54 what action it would take would have to be done here.
14:24:56 It cannot be done in closed session.
14:24:59 >>CHAIRMAN: Ms. Saul-Sena?
14:25:01 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
14:25:07 My proposal would be that we direct our legal
14:25:09 department to take action with the proposal that we
14:25:11 discussed as number 2, the settlement that council
14:25:15 members feel comfortable with.
14:25:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Second.
14:25:18 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
14:25:20 (Motion carried).
14:25:22 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: And, also, I would like to propose
14:25:28 to postpone the hearing, if you could expand upon
14:25:32 that.
14:25:32 >>DAVID SMITH: There's also a hearing scheduled for
14:25:36 1:55 or as soon after as you reconvene from the closed
14:25:40 session.
14:25:41 It would be not prudent to tap any action in that
14:25:45 regard at this juncture.
14:25:46 We need to see what happens with the settlement

14:25:49 issues.
14:25:49 So it needs to be postponed.
14:25:51 It would are preferable to postpone that to a time
14:25:54 certain when we have a full council, if we can do
14:25:57 that.
14:26:00 Do we know when that is, madam clerk?
14:26:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Is that an indefinite date?
14:26:08 >>DAVID SMITH: We have November 4th as our next
14:26:11 regular council meeting, and November 1st.
14:26:19 And then we have the 15th.
14:26:20 I would say one of those two dates.
14:26:22 >> Move the 15th.
14:26:27 >> Second.
14:26:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Need a motion to make it the 15th.
14:26:34 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: second.
14:26:36 (Motion carried).
14:26:36 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Did you understand the motion?
14:26:40 >>GWEN MILLER: What time, Mr. Smith?
14:26:45 >>DAVID SMITH: County be pursuant to your normal
14:26:47 scheduling process.
14:26:48 I don't know what that would come under.
14:26:50 Marty, new business pending?

14:26:53 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Council, on November 15th you
14:26:54 have a morning session.
14:26:56 You have -- currently two appeal hearings.
14:27:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: 10:00.
14:27:08 >>GWEN MILLER: 10:00.
14:27:09 November 15th at 10:00.
14:27:12 >>DAVID SMITH: Do you need to make another motion
14:27:14 setting that time?
14:27:16 >>GWEN MILLER: It's already in there.
14:27:17 We incorporated it in there.
14:27:19 Now we go back to our regular agenda.
14:27:25 >>THE CLERK: You haven't voted on the motion yet.
14:27:27 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of November 15th at
14:27:29 10 a.m. say Aye.
14:27:30 Opposed?
14:27:32 (Motion carried).
14:27:32 We go back to regular agenda item number 132.
14:27:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to open the public hearing on
14:27:40 132.
14:27:41 >> Second.
14:27:41 (Motion carried).
14:27:42 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Madam Chair, did you want to make

14:27:45 sure in case people came in late?
14:27:46 >>CHAIRMAN: Since we had a recess we need to go back
14:27:49 in and swear you in.
14:27:50 So anyone that's going to speak on items 132 to 141,
14:27:54 please stand and raise your right hand.
14:27:58 (Oath administered by Clerk)
14:28:09 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
14:28:12 Petition number WZ 07-91.
14:28:14 They are requesting a 4(COP-R), classification in
14:28:19 conjunction with a restaurant.
14:28:21 The wet zoning -- I'm sorry, the previous ordinance
14:28:26 was adopted in 2003, which granted a 2(COP-R) in
14:28:32 conjunction with a restaurant at 1,714 square feet.
14:28:37 If you look at the first page of the staff report,
14:28:40 there is a planned expansion of the restaurant to
14:28:42 provide additional area of open patio space of 1,047
14:28:46 square feet.
14:28:47 The wet zoned area will contain 2,761 square feet.
14:28:51 The restaurant will have approximately 66 feet, 50 of
14:28:55 which will be located inside, remaining outside.
14:28:59 The establishment is under construction.
14:29:00 According to the petition, the alcohol sales are

14:29:06 incidental.
14:29:07 Property located at the corner of Euclid.
14:29:13 I'll show you the photos.
14:29:15 The west side.
14:29:18 This is the front of the structure.
14:29:26 This is Euclid looking north.
14:29:30 Looking on the south side.
14:29:36 I'll show you the location of the wet zoning as it
14:29:40 relates to the site itself.
14:29:42 It's a small area.
14:29:47 A little pat improvement there are two wet zoned areas
14:29:49 within a thousand feet.
14:29:51 Page one of the report.
14:29:52 And residential property within a thousand feet on
14:29:56 page 2, and there are no institutional uses within a
14:29:59 thousand.
14:30:00 Staff has no objections.
14:30:06 >>> Officer Don Miller, City of Tampa police
14:30:08 department.
14:30:09 Police department has no objection to this wet zoning.
14:30:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
14:30:12 >>> Victor DiMaio, D-I-M-A-I-O, 1,000 north Ashley

14:30:21 drive, and I'm for the petitioner Michael shanty.
14:30:25 I want to turn it over to have my partner Bob
14:30:27 Henriquez.
14:30:35 >> Tampa, Florida representing Michael Shante, LLC
14:30:40 doing business as wooden door incorporated.
14:30:42 The subject property before you today is located in
14:30:44 the northwest corner of Westshore, south southwest
14:30:48 shore and Euclid Avenue, the request is the property
14:30:52 be zoned 4(COP-R) for consumption on premises in
14:30:56 connection with a restaurant business.
14:30:58 >>GWEN MILLER: Can I stop you a minute?
14:31:01 Is there anyone here in the public that came to have
14:31:03 speak on item 132?
14:31:08 If you are in opposition.
14:31:09 You are against it?
14:31:10 If you are against it, anybody here against it?
14:31:12 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move to close the public hearing.
14:31:15 >> Second.
14:31:15 (Motion carried).
14:31:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I will be glad to read the
14:31:22 ordinance.
14:31:24 Number 132.

14:31:26 And I read it in spite of the fact it's the Motley
14:31:30 Crue of DiMaio.
14:31:35 Move an ordinance repealing ordinance 2003-32 making
14:31:40 lawful the sale of beverages containing alcoholic
14:31:43 regardless of alcoholic content beer, wine and liquor
14:31:46 4(COP-R) for consumption on the premises only in
14:31:48 connection with a restaurant business establishment on
14:31:51 that certain lot, plot or tract of land located at
14:31:53 3681 South Westshore Boulevard, Tampa, Florida as more
14:31:58 particularly described in section 3 hereof waiving
14:32:00 certain restrictions as to distance based upon certain
14:32:03 findings providing for repeal of all ordinances in
14:32:05 conflict providing an effective date and good luck.
14:32:07 (Motion carried).
14:32:08 >> Move to open 133.
14:32:10 >> Second.
14:32:12 (Motion carried)
14:32:44 >>CHAIRMAN: Ms. Coyle, before you start let me read
14:32:48 this into the record before you go.
14:32:51 Pursuant to section 286.0118 Florida statutes the
14:32:54 closed session to discuss the City of Tampa versus
14:32:59 City National Bank of Florida and Civitas Construction

14:33:00 Corporation, case number 2D06-1383 is hereby
14:33:05 terminated.
14:33:06 All right.
14:33:06 Now you may begin.
14:33:12 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Thank you, ma'am.
14:33:16 Land development.
14:33:20 Case WZ 07-111, requesting a 4(COP) beer, wine and
14:33:30 liquor on premises and for sale in packages off
14:33:35 premises.
14:33:36 Wet zoning is for sale of alcohol, to private members
14:33:39 only in connection with a private recreation facility,
14:33:42 as provided in chapter 27.
14:33:44 That contains 15,232 square feet including the outside
14:33:47 area.
14:33:49 The facility will have 550 feet, 400 feet to be
14:33:53 located inside, sale of alcohol will be incidental
14:33:58 use, primary function of the business as noted in the
14:34:00 application.
14:34:00 You will note on page 1 of the staff report, there is
14:34:05 one wet zoned property within a thousand feet, the
14:34:08 bakers billiards, and there are six locations that are
14:34:13 institutional uses within a thousand feet including

14:34:17 Salvation Army, Tampa family health centers, a
14:34:20 brighter community health start center and the church
14:34:22 women united location.
14:34:24 There are no residential uses within a thousand feet.
14:34:28 At the time of the staff report based on the
14:34:30 information we had received at that point in time,
14:34:32 staff is recommending a 4(COP-X) so sales will be
14:34:37 restricted to on-site consumption only.
14:34:41 The petitioner, legal department and myself have been
14:34:43 working on various conditions self-imposed by the
14:34:47 petitioner which they are going to go through and
14:34:49 speak with you today about today, and the sales, the
14:34:53 restriction to off-site con consumption, off-site
14:34:58 consumption, is related to a restaurant use only.
14:35:00 They have restricted that in the ordinance.
14:35:03 We are okay with lifting the X recommending that we
14:35:06 had in our report.
14:35:09 I'll have petitioner go through the additional
14:35:10 conditions at this point, staff has no objections to
14:35:14 the request.
14:35:16 You notice the area, Florida here, Henderson, Florida
14:35:24 and Henderson.

14:35:26 For those of you who recognize the history of this,
14:35:32 this is the hotel -- that's right, I'm sorry.
14:35:41 I apologize.
14:35:43 Behind the structure, the alley.
14:35:47 The armature.
14:35:51 Building that is connected to the north.
14:35:53 Just so you know the petitioner has applied for
14:35:55 historic designation on October 4th, that is one
14:36:00 condition on the wet zoning ordinance as well.
14:36:03 As I said, staff had no objections.
14:36:08 >>> Officer Miller, City of Tampa police department.
14:36:11 Police department has no objection to this wet zoning.
14:36:13 >>CHAIRMAN: Petitioner?
14:36:17 >>> Gina Grimes with the law firm of hill, ward
14:36:21 Henderson, 101 East Kennedy Boulevard and I have been
14:36:24 sworn.
14:36:24 I'm here this morning to representing current
14:36:29 incorporated, which has a contract to purchase this
14:36:31 subject property.
14:36:32 The property is located at the southeast corner of
14:36:36 Henderson and Franklin Street, in the Tampa Heights
14:36:40 area, from the Tampa Heights perspective it's

14:36:43 described as South Franklin street, in downtown it's
14:36:46 described as the North Franklin Street area.
14:36:50 I'm here this morning from folks from print, the most
14:36:55 important though of mark Smith, the president of
14:36:59 print, ink, and John Shibley from print, Inc. You are
14:37:04 going to hear from Mark in a little bit.
14:37:06 He's going to give you the background of the officers
14:37:08 of print and tell awe little about their history, and
14:37:11 I can tell you that not withstanding their youthful
14:37:14 appearance, they are both very accomplished
14:37:16 businessmen, and I think that in and of itself will
14:37:19 lend some credibility to some questions that have been
14:37:22 raised about this project.
14:37:26 He will give you some details about their business
14:37:27 concept and their business plan.
14:37:29 In this instance, even though Print isn't the owner of
14:37:33 the property and even though they don't have a
14:37:35 contract to purchase it and even though is a wet
14:37:37 zoning and not a land zoning I think you are going to
14:37:40 be impressed with the level of investment that they
14:37:41 have made in this project up to this point.
14:37:44 You are going to see through our presentation the

14:37:48 story boards that the architects are going to present,
14:37:52 the model that they have developed, and maybe if
14:37:54 there's a way, Marty, that we could put the model up a
14:37:57 little higher so that the council members can see it
14:37:59 while we have this presentation.
14:38:00 Would that be acceptable to put it up on your ledge?
14:38:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Yes.
14:38:07 >>GINA GRIMES: I think you will be impressed with the
14:38:09 level of investment that they have already undertaken
14:38:11 with this project.
14:38:12 And the reason for that level of investment is because
14:38:15 this wet zoning is critical to this project.
14:38:18 Without the wet zoning, the project will not be
14:38:22 successful, it won't -- it would fail, we would not be
14:38:26 able to go forward from a marketing and operational
14:38:29 standpoint, the wet zoning is the linchpin to this
14:38:32 project, and also from an economic standpoint.
14:38:36 As Cathy said, this is a 4(COP) alcoholic beverage
14:38:39 zoning application, and I know that's something,
14:38:43 that's an application that you don't get all that
14:38:44 often.
14:38:46 And the proposed use is what we are referring to as a

14:38:49 private members-only business, an entertainment
14:38:54 lounge, and event center.
14:38:55 And we learned very quickly, very early on in this
14:38:58 process that with that description of the use, it
14:39:01 raised a lot of questions and skepticism on the part
14:39:03 of a lot of different people.
14:39:05 And we did have to do some backtracking to try to
14:39:10 restore credibility to the project, because in
14:39:13 Tampa -- and this is probably unique to Tampa -- I
14:39:16 think a lot of the regulatory staff, the regulatory
14:39:21 staff members, were concerned that this was really a
14:39:26 subterfuge for something that it's not, that it could
14:39:29 possibly be some sort of club, we heard adult use
14:39:35 club, several different concerns that they have
14:39:37 expressed about what potentially this use could be.
14:39:40 But again, we are describing it as a private
14:39:44 members-only business and entertainment lounge and
14:39:48 event center.
14:39:49 Now I am going to get into the specifics of exactly
14:39:51 what that means.
14:39:55 The business entertainment lounge component of the
14:39:58 proposed use is only going to operate on Thursday,

14:40:01 Friday and Saturday nights, and the trademark of
14:40:05 print, ink, is the thumb print.
14:40:08 And the reason for that sentence that they will have
14:40:11 what's called biometric access to their facilities
14:40:14 through use of a thumb print.
14:40:17 And I know we are all from a different generation than
14:40:20 these younger folks are, the wave of the future, I
14:40:24 guess.
14:40:24 But that's their trademark, the thumb print and
14:40:27 biometric access to the club.
14:40:29 In addition to that, they'll have a lounge that will
14:40:31 have table side bottle service.
14:40:33 In other words, they are not going to be selling
14:40:35 alcohol by the drinks.
14:40:36 They are going to be selling alcohol by the bottle.
14:40:38 And that will include just your ordinary wine,
14:40:41 champagne and liquors, and also what they refer to as
14:40:45 exotic wine, champagne and liquors.
14:40:50 In addition to the lounge, they will have
14:40:52 entertainment.
14:40:53 As you know, the Rialto theater was once a theater,
14:40:58 there is a stage there so they will have entertainment

14:41:00 such as members only concerts, also product launch
14:41:04 events where they are launching -- it could be any
14:41:07 kind of product, not just an alcohol related product.
14:41:10 And they'll also have business focus events.
14:41:12 In addition to that they are going to offer their
14:41:14 members various different services including concierge
14:41:18 service, special order, wine --
14:41:23 >>CHAIRMAN: I think you gave us a good detail.
14:41:25 Let's see if there's anybody here in opposition to
14:41:28 item number 133.
14:41:30 133.
14:41:32 >> And there also was in the package of materials a
14:41:35 letter support from the Tampa Heights civic
14:41:36 association.
14:41:37 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I have one question.
14:41:43 I notice on the model, I don't see a back door.
14:41:46 >>> It's just a model, just for representative
14:41:50 purposes.
14:41:51 There will be a back door.
14:42:02 >>> South Missouri Avenue, Clearwater, Florida.
14:42:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I just wanted to say you provided
14:42:09 us the most complete like a masters thesis, and it's

14:42:14 very thorough.
14:42:19 >> It's good training.
14:42:22 69 Ms. Mulhern.
14:42:23 >>MARY MULHERN: I was just reading your description of
14:42:27 the club.
14:42:30 And there's a lot of words that might lead people to
14:42:33 wonder.
14:42:34 If you are wondering why people were wondering, like
14:42:38 members-only lounge, right?
14:42:43 Bottles of their favorite liquor.
14:42:46 Catwalks.
14:42:51 Mezzanine with private rooms and public catwalks.
14:42:56 So I don't think it should be surprising that people
14:42:58 are wondering if this is going to be adult use,
14:43:00 because the whole description, that's what it sounds
14:43:05 like.
14:43:05 What else is going to be happening on those catwalks?
14:43:14 And here's my other question.
14:43:17 I will cut to the chase obviously.
14:43:19 But what are you making this a private club instead of
14:43:22 just a club?
14:43:24 >>> First of all, mark Smith from print.

14:43:31 We come from a different world, come from a science
14:43:34 and technology world.
14:43:35 So when I was asked to write the business plan, that
14:43:38 was really and we are speaking to the business
14:43:43 community and unknowingly put words in there that may
14:43:44 have caused issues.
14:43:45 And we quickly hired Gina when we realized we had
14:43:49 problems with issues because that's not our intention.
14:43:52 Intention is to prevent those pieces of the business
14:43:54 that are prevalent in the business from entering.
14:43:58 One of the reasons I want it to be a private club.
14:44:00 It's like the university club or the Tampa club.
14:44:02 Only use terms, we mean business professionals looking
14:44:06 for business networking opportunities and be the
14:44:08 opportunity to socialize with other business
14:44:10 professionals, and when we say private rooms, very
14:44:12 much like you would rent a private room at the Hilton
14:44:15 for a business presentation. This is also an event
14:44:17 center.
14:44:17 So what we lake to do is bring the corporate community
14:44:20 in, and be able to use those different rooms for sales
14:44:23 presentations, for closing sales, and also when you

14:44:27 have separate parties or private parties like a
14:44:30 birthday party or corporate party, inside a lounge,
14:44:33 you want a private area to have that without having
14:44:36 someone mill around so it's like the back room of a
14:44:38 restaurant you would rent out.
14:44:40 Unbeknownst to us we used terms that might be
14:44:42 objectionable.
14:44:43 As far as the catwalk is concerned that's actually a
14:44:45 theatrical term for the walk between where be the
14:44:48 stage and mezzanine area. This is an old theater and
14:44:51 part of our design is to bring back that life of the
14:44:54 theater into the RIALTO and be able to have a very
14:44:58 flexible and changeable environment so county go from
14:45:01 a lounge bar one night to a wedding reception the next
14:45:04 day.
14:45:05 And the catwalks are specifically for the purposes of
14:45:07 moving from the mezzanine, from one mezzanine to the
14:45:11 other.
14:45:11 >> But why a club?
14:45:13 I know there was a business, very successful business
14:45:16 in South Tampa, that recently changed ownership and
14:45:21 tried to become a private club, and it wasn't

14:45:24 successful.
14:45:24 I'm just wondering why you would want to make at club
14:45:28 rather than a bar-restaurant-lounge.
14:45:31 >>GINA GRIMES: It's going to be a club Thursday,
14:45:34 Friday and Saturday but the other days of the week it
14:45:35 will be available for rent or for lease to members of
14:45:39 the public, and that was something actually the Tampa
14:45:42 Heights civic association made note of and was in
14:45:45 favor of, that it would be a forum such as that would
14:45:50 be available for rentals by the general public.
14:45:52 So it's kind of a combination of both.
14:45:57 >>GWEN MILLER: Mrs. Saul-Sena?
14:46:02 I'm sorry, Mr. Miranda.
14:46:03 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I guess you have the entry floor,
14:46:07 second floor, third floor, patio.
14:46:09 Is that a restaurant type?
14:46:11 >>> No, sir.
14:46:16 (off microphone).
14:46:18 >> Once you got the little tables, looks like I don't
14:46:21 know.
14:46:22 >> Those are Habanas here.
14:46:25 These are just open seating.

14:46:27 The majority of our business plan revolves around
14:46:30 reservation seating so you are being served at a table
14:46:32 instead of waiting at a bar like you would on the
14:46:35 other two floors.
14:46:36 On the rooftop deck you would have a reservation and
14:46:39 be served.
14:46:39 >> The only one that I remember, not that I went
14:46:42 there, is up in Grand Haven, Michigan, on Washington
14:46:49 street.
14:46:49 I had never been inside but I remember it.
14:46:52 I just have a good memory.
14:46:57 >>> We have used the Hillsborough River and downtown.
14:47:00 Then the neighborhood area.
14:47:04 Then the green space towards the river and downtown
14:47:08 and maintain a very quiet area on the river.
14:47:11 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Again Madam Chair, just what the
14:47:14 gentleman is saying here, not that I have been to that
14:47:16 one but could you see Lake Michigan from the outside
14:47:20 when you are outside having lunch.
14:47:23 >>CHAIRMAN: I'm going to speak for you.
14:47:25 You were there.
14:47:27 [ Laughter ]

14:47:28 Other questions?
14:47:30 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Parking.
14:47:31 >>> Yes, ma'am.
14:47:31 We have parking -- there is a property that faces, L.
14:47:41 We are going to RAZE that building, 20% green space in
14:47:46 the back where none exists today. The armature you
14:47:48 see here we are than converting to indoor valet
14:47:52 parking.
14:47:52 The armature can have about 70 parking spaces, valet
14:47:57 situation, and if we need extra parking, also a
14:48:00 conditional solution to the parking inside.
14:48:02 So based on the parking populations.
14:48:07 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to compliment you on the
14:48:09 historic preservation you are dealing with buildings
14:48:11 that have been neglected for decades.
14:48:13 And I'm really excited to see you're proposing to
14:48:16 refurbish them.
14:48:18 >>CHAIRMAN: Do you want to wrap up?
14:48:25 >>GINA GRIMES: I think Mr. Dingfelder may have
14:48:27 questions about the conditions we imposed and we did
14:48:29 impose these to not just address the staff concerns
14:48:31 but the Tampa Heights civic associations concerns.

14:48:34 They basically are that we will operate only at the --
14:48:38 the wet zone establishment will be operated only as a
14:48:41 private recreational facility.
14:48:43 What that means is if it's not operated as such then
14:48:45 the wet zoning is -- it expires, or terminates.
14:48:50 So the wet zoning that runs with the land is only if
14:48:53 the use is operated as a private recreational
14:48:56 facility.
14:48:57 In other words, a country club type operation.
14:49:00 The other requirement is that we apply with the
14:49:04 historic designation application, and the Rialto, and
14:49:09 also the block to the south, that's not part of the
14:49:11 wet zoned application, that also, we have applied for
14:49:14 historic designation status on that block to the south
14:49:17 where there will be a restaurant.
14:49:19 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Perhaps as importantly says shall
14:49:22 not be operated as an adult use.
14:49:23 >>GINA GRIMES: Right.
14:49:25 It doesn't meet the locational requirements for an
14:49:27 adult use.
14:49:27 And we agree to just state in the record as a
14:49:30 condition that it will not be operated as such.

14:49:35 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: That gives all of us probably a
14:49:37 little more comfort, no pun intended.
14:49:40 >> that area will not be wet zoned, will it.
14:49:45 >> Actually, the northern portion of the block will
14:49:47 be.
14:49:47 The southern portion where the restaurant is will not
14:49:50 be.
14:49:50 You can see the lower building on the south.
14:49:53 That will not be.
14:49:54 And the reason the northern portion armature works
14:49:58 building is being designated or applied for wet zoning
14:50:02 is because there will be certain events where there
14:50:04 may be an overflow, where they may need to use some of
14:50:07 that space for the sale of alcoholic beverages.
14:50:09 So that's why.
14:50:10 One of the things that they are targeting is the Super
14:50:12 Bowl when it comes here in 2009, and they wanted this
14:50:16 facility to be up and running and will be a perfect
14:50:18 venue for all the different types of parties and
14:50:20 events that occur surrounding the Super Bowl.
14:50:23 I know Mr. Miranda will probably be there front and
14:50:25 center at Raymond James stadium.

14:50:27 [ Laughter ]
14:50:32 >> On the rooftop.
14:50:34 Reserve Mr. Miranda's space.
14:50:41 >> Move to close the public hearing.
14:50:43 >> Second.
14:50:44 >>GWEN MILLER: Question on the motion?
14:50:47 >>MARY MULHERN: I wanted to ask a question.
14:50:54 For language that Ms. Grimes put in there, part of the
14:50:57 recreational facility, and then the -- it won't
14:51:03 operate as an adult use.
14:51:05 Does that mean -- I mean, is that binding?
14:51:13 Does that mean if they violate this, or any future
14:51:18 owner violate it, they lose the weight zoning?
14:51:21 >>> Yes, basically.
14:51:25 Could you begin the revocation processor any other
14:51:28 enforcement process that we have available to us,
14:51:30 because they would not be operating in conjunction
14:51:32 with the requirements of that.
14:51:35 In addition, because some of these conditions, I do
14:51:38 believe they are all legally defensible, they are a
14:51:40 little different from the ones you typically see.
14:51:42 Applicant has agreed to put in an additional clause in

14:51:47 the event a court finds any of these conditions are in
14:51:50 fact not lawful and that we can't enforce them that
14:51:53 the entire wet zoning goes away, where usually there's
14:51:55 the option where they would just receiver that part
14:51:58 and leave the wet zoning.
14:51:59 But they have really addressed all of them.
14:52:01 >>MARY MULHERN: She said something about it didn't fit
14:52:04 the location.
14:52:07 >>> For an adult use, yes.
14:52:09 I'm not sure --
14:52:13 >> How doesn't it?
14:52:19 >>> It's residential.
14:52:21 >>> The requirements for -- the requirements for an
14:52:25 adult use have to be a CI and it can't be within 500
14:52:28 feet of residentially zoned.
14:52:34 And it doesn't meet the requirements.
14:52:35 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
14:52:36 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second to close.
14:52:38 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
14:52:40 Opposed, Nay.
14:52:41 Mr. Miranda.
14:52:42 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Move an ordinance for first reading

14:52:46 consideration, an ordinance making lawful the sale of
14:52:49 beverages containing alcohol regardless of alcoholic
14:52:51 content, beer, wine and liquor, 4(COP), for
14:52:54 consumption on the premises and in sealed containers
14:52:56 for consumption off premises in connection with a
14:52:59 private recreational facility business establishment
14:53:01 on that certain lot, plot or tract of land located at
14:53:04 1617 and 1631 North Franklin Street, Tampa, Florida,
14:53:07 as more particularly described in section 2 hereof
14:53:10 waiving certain restrictions as to distance based upon
14:53:13 certain findings, providing for repeal of all
14:53:15 ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.
14:53:16 >>CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and second.
14:53:18 (Motion carried)
14:53:22 Need to open item 134.
14:53:24 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
14:53:27 >> Second.
14:53:27 (Motion carried).
14:53:28 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
14:53:57 Case WZ 07-121, 1609 west snow Avenue, requesting
14:54:04 4(COP-X) for the sale of beer, wine and liquor for
14:54:07 consumption on premises only.

14:54:08 This must be within a site that contains at least 50
14:54:14 seats indoor or outdoor, at least 1,000 square feet in
14:54:17 area.
14:54:17 This particular location has 3,156 square feet, which
14:54:24 includes 868 square feet outside and a patio area.
14:54:27 The restaurant will have 108 feet with 60 feet located
14:54:32 outside.
14:54:34 The application itself, the sale of alcohol will be
14:54:37 incidental.
14:54:40 You will notice locations within a thousand feet, two
14:54:43 residential uses within a thousand feet, and two
14:54:45 institutional uses within a thousand feet.
14:54:48 Pursuant to 376-A council does have the ability to
14:54:52 waive the distance separations.
14:54:54 And part of Old Hyde Park Village.
14:55:04 Which is included in your package.
14:55:06 Staff has no objections.
14:55:11 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Can I ask a question about the
14:55:12 picture?
14:55:18 Is the area outlined in yellow all being requested for
14:55:21 this rezoning?
14:55:22 >>CATHERINE COYLE: When it comes up on the map info,

14:55:32 what highlights in yellow is actually the folio
14:55:34 numbers so it's a little misleading.
14:55:36 When you go to the actual survey that is part of the
14:55:38 package the cut-out legal description in the dark
14:55:41 black line, it says one leasable area at 1609 snow
14:55:45 Avenue.
14:55:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It's on the same corner.
14:55:59 >>> I'll let the petitioner speak.
14:56:04 >> It wasn't the whole area, it's just a portion of
14:56:07 it?
14:56:07 >>> That's correct.
14:56:07 >> Thank you for the clarification.
14:56:11 >>> Officer Miller.
14:56:12 We have no objections.
14:56:18 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
14:56:19 >> Michelle Murphy.
14:56:22 I'm the agent so we are actually moving from one
14:56:26 location in Hyde Park to the other.
14:56:28 And that building is actually -- it used to be blocked
14:56:31 off into, I think, six different businesses.
14:56:34 And on the north side of the building.
14:56:40 We are actually taking the spot that was the sun glass

14:56:42 hut, Nicholson house and the old coffee shop.
14:56:46 So it's actually a section that used to be three
14:56:48 different businesses that we are going to make one.
14:56:50 And we are definitely going to be the same restaurant
14:56:53 that we always have been.
14:56:55 We will have a few more seats, about 30 total, and we
14:56:58 don't want to change the concept at all.
14:57:00 We are still going to be mostly concerned with doing a
14:57:03 very affordable menu along with a great wine
14:57:06 selection, but just to be competitive in the market we
14:57:08 really feel that the availability of alcohol will help
14:57:11 our business quite a bit.
14:57:13 And so we just want to have that available.
14:57:16 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
14:57:18 wants to speak on item 134?
14:57:22 >> Move to close.
14:57:23 >> Second.
14:57:23 (Motion carried).
14:57:24 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I need to reopen just for one
14:57:32 second.
14:57:32 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move to reopen.
14:57:35 >> Second.

14:57:35 (Motion carried).
14:57:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: The map we were given -- the map we
14:57:42 were given includes B.T. restaurant.
14:57:46 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: That was the question I asked.
14:57:51 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
14:57:52 Unfortunately with the system --
14:57:56 >> I'm sorry.
14:57:56 >>> That's okay.
14:58:00 >>CHAIRMAN: Need to close.
14:58:01 >> So moved.
14:58:01 >> Second.
14:58:02 (Motion carried).
14:58:02 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Move an ordinance making lawful the
14:58:05 sale of beverages regardless of alcoholic content
14:58:07 beer, wine and liquor 4(COP-X) for consumption on
14:58:10 premises only at or from that certain lot, plot or
14:58:13 tract of land located at 1609 west snow Avenue, Tampa,
14:58:17 Florida, as more particularly described in section 2
14:58:19 hereof, waiving certain restrictions as to distance
14:58:22 based upon certain findings, providing for repeal of
14:58:26 all ordinances in conflict, providing an effective
14:58:27 date.

14:58:27 >> We have a motion and second.
14:58:29 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
14:58:32 Opposed, Nay.
14:58:32 (Motion carried)
14:58:34 Need to open 135.
14:58:36 >> So moved.
14:58:36 >> Second.
14:58:37 (Motion carried).
14:58:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: While they are coming up I have a
14:58:48 great idea.
14:58:50 Okay.
14:58:52 They should schedule wet zonings at both of our
14:58:55 regular meetings, and then that way they will be
14:58:57 spread across, and you will have less on one
14:59:00 particular day.
14:59:01 Right now they are all consolidated.
14:59:04 Just throwing it out there.
14:59:07 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I can explain to you why they are
14:59:09 this way today.
14:59:09 If you notice, Barbara LePore isn't here.
14:59:12 She is still on her medical leave which was supposed
14:59:14 to occur in November.

14:59:16 And so she staffed everything in October and the
14:59:19 surgery got pushed up.
14:59:20 So that's why there happens to be so many.
14:59:22 That's why I am covering them.
14:59:23 Normally it's five to seven or so.
14:59:25 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Even so if we spread them out and
14:59:28 had them twice a month, then you would even have less
14:59:31 and you -- it might not even go into the afternoon.
14:59:36 So I don't know if we have to change our rules to do
14:59:38 that.
14:59:38 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I don't know.
14:59:40 Is it only the third Thursday?
14:59:42 That's the reason we set it through for that day.
14:59:45 We thought that was the only day.
14:59:46 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We'll look at it.
14:59:48 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Okay.
14:59:50 >>MARY MULHERN: I had a suggestion, too.
14:59:53 After today's meeting, maybe we should just wet zone
14:59:56 the whole city and then people can apply not to do it.
15:00:03 >>> Give everybody a "1."
15:00:10 >>THOMAS SCOTT: You talk about opposition.
15:00:14 >>> Have you opened 135?

15:00:20 Case WZ 07-123, request for 2(APS).
15:00:24 Package sales, beer and wine only.
15:00:26 The location is 3917 West Kennedy Boulevard.
15:00:31 This is in connection with our 1 it 39 square foot
15:00:34 structure.
15:00:35 They are -- sales are to be incidental to the primary
15:00:39 use, which is slated to be a retail market, the
15:00:45 location between Grady on the north side of Kennedy.
15:00:49 There's a photo of the front.
15:00:51 It says market hours on the door.
15:00:53 You will note just the structure itself that is being
15:00:59 wet zoned, no outside part of the parcel.
15:01:03 The three locations within 1,000 feet for residential,
15:01:09 no institutional or other wet zoned properties within
15:01:11 a thousand feet.
15:01:12 Council does have the ability to waive that criteria,
15:01:15 given that it's shown as incidental.
15:01:16 Staff has no objections.
15:01:19 >>> Officer Miller, City of Tampa police department.
15:01:24 We have no objections to the wet zone.
15:01:25 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
15:01:30 >>> Paul Ruel, the owner of the business.

15:01:34 And we are looking at adding to an existing business
15:01:36 already.
15:01:36 We currently sale high end beef, seafood and looking
15:01:42 at adding small selection of high-end wines.
15:01:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that came
15:01:47 to speak in opposition to 135?
15:01:50 >> Move to close.
15:01:50 >> Second.
15:01:51 (Motion carried).
15:01:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Reverend Scott.
15:01:55 >>THOMAS SCOTT: I would like to read on first reading
15:02:01 an ordinance making lawful the sale of beverages
15:02:03 containing alcohol of more than 1% by weight and not
15:02:06 more than 14% by weight and wine regardless of
15:02:08 alcoholic content, beer and wine 2(APS), in sealed
15:02:12 containers for consumption off premises only at or
15:02:15 from that certain lot, plot or tract of land located
15:02:18 at 3917 West Kennedy Boulevard, Tampa, Florida, as
15:02:22 more particularly described in section 2 hereof,
15:02:24 waiving certain restrictions as to distance based upon
15:02:26 certain findings, providing for repeal of all
15:02:29 ordinances in conflict, providing an effective date.

15:02:32 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
15:02:33 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
15:02:34 (Motion carried)
15:02:37 Need to open 136.
15:02:38 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
15:02:39 >> Second.
15:02:39 (Motion carried).
15:02:40 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
15:02:43 Request WZ 07-127 for a 2(APS) package sales beer and
15:02:47 wine only for the location at 6759 North Armenia
15:02:52 Avenue.
15:02:53 This request is in conjunction with a 1,639 square
15:02:57 foot, one-story commercial building that does lie
15:03:01 within a strip center, the sale of alcoholic beverages
15:03:04 are noted in the application to be incidental to the
15:03:07 primary use.
15:03:08 You will note that the site is just south of basically
15:03:11 on the corner of Armenia and Hiawatha just south of
15:03:15 Sligh.
15:03:15 And this is the particular unit that will be leased.
15:03:22 There are five locations, wet zoned within a thousand
15:03:25 feet noted on page 1, two locations for residential

15:03:28 within a thousand feet, on page 2, 3 institutional
15:03:31 uses including a daycare, a learning center, and a
15:03:34 church.
15:03:35 Council does have the ability to waive the distance
15:03:38 separation, criteria, because it is noted.
15:03:42 Just to show you the survey.
15:03:44 The site itself under the building area to be wet
15:03:49 zoned.
15:03:49 Staff has no objections.
15:03:53 >>CHAIRMAN: Mr. Dingfelder?
15:03:57 >>> Officer Miller, City of Tampa police, no
15:03:59 objections to this wet zoning.
15:04:05 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Would you put that back on the
15:04:09 overhead?
15:04:10 That's just the far end of the strip center, is that
15:04:12 right?
15:04:13 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Yes.
15:04:13 >> The description describes it as -- and the purpose
15:04:18 to sell beer and wine in conjunction with a grocery
15:04:22 store.
15:04:23 It looks like all of that is going to be new, I guess.
15:04:30 >>> It appears to be full scale.

15:04:37 >> It just seems very small.
15:04:38 >>I couldn't answer you whether or not it's an ethnic
15:04:42 grocery store or some kind of specialty sales.
15:04:44 Petitioner might be able to answer that.
15:04:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
15:04:53 >> Carmen Mendoza.
15:04:55 Good morning.
15:04:56 It's going to be -- it's going to be a grocery store.
15:05:02 You are just seeing like one door.
15:05:04 There's actually a little bit further down, like that
15:05:08 part you see in the picture right now, right next to
15:05:10 it, the same amount of space.
15:05:12 >> Two spaces?
15:05:14 >>> Yes, two units.
15:05:15 >> How many square feet approximately, do you know?
15:05:18 So it's going to be a small place?
15:05:24 >>> 1639 square footage according to the survey.
15:05:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public this that
15:05:31 came to speak on item 136?
15:05:36 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: 136.
15:05:38 >> Move to close.
15:05:39 >> Second.

15:05:40 (Motion carried).
15:05:40 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance being presented
15:05:47 for first reading consideration, an ordinance making
15:05:50 lawful the sale of beverages containing alcohol of
15:05:52 more than 1% by weight and not more than 14% by weight
15:05:56 and wines regardless of alcoholic content, beer and
15:05:59 wine, 2(APS), in sealed containers for consumption off
15:06:02 premises only at or from that certain lot, plot or
15:06:05 tract of land located at 6759 North Armenia Avenue,
15:06:10 Tampa, Florida, as more particularly described in
15:06:12 section 2 hereof, waiving certain restrictions as to
15:06:15 distance based upon certain findings, providing for
15:06:18 repeal of all ordinances in conflict, providing an
15:06:21 effective date.
15:06:22 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
15:06:23 (Motion carried).
15:06:25 69 need to open 137.
15:06:27 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: So moved.
15:06:28 >> Second.
15:06:28 (Motion carried)
15:06:32 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
15:06:33 Case WZ 07-129.

15:06:37 Requesting 4(COP-X) for sell of beer, wine and liquor
15:06:41 on sale on premises only, 2905 north 50th street.
15:06:45 The zoning district is CI and the current use at the
15:06:48 site you will note is a hotel, USA inn.
15:06:55 Just to show you pictures.
15:07:01 Just to show you the survey of the site.
15:07:08 On the front page of your report there are two wet
15:07:11 zoned properties, residential property and one
15:07:14 institutional use within a thousand feet.
15:07:17 The institutional use, that even the police will note,
15:07:23 is an addiction receiving facility, the ax facility.
15:07:31 The 4(COP-X) is for sale of alcohol in conjunction
15:07:35 with a hotel and nightclub that will be located at the
15:07:37 site.
15:07:37 The property contains a two-story hotel and a
15:07:41 nightclub.
15:07:42 The wet zoning is wet zoned, the sidewalk as well, two
15:07:48 structures, the request is for 61400 square feet,
15:07:51 37,087 square feet of the proposed wet zoning located
15:07:55 on the ground level.
15:07:56 The establishment will have 60 seats located outside
15:08:00 and alcohol will be -- noting the entire area is a

15:08:05 hotel use.
15:08:09 I'm sorry, the entire area is needed in order provide
15:08:11 the ability for room service to sell alcohol directly
15:08:14 to the patrons, as it does in a lot of hotels that
15:08:17 have room service, to be able to carry that through,
15:08:21 including the sidewalk area.
15:08:23 There are no objections from staff.
15:08:25 And Tampa police has reviewed as well.
15:08:29 >>> Officer Miller, City of Tampa police department.
15:08:38 One thing I have to add to the police depth report,
15:08:41 the ax, less an thousand feet from this wet zoning
15:08:44 request.
15:08:48 Other than that police have no objection.
15:08:49 >> I have a staff question.
15:08:51 And that is, I remember specifically rezoning that the
15:08:55 liquor sales in the lobby, take it to their room, but
15:09:02 I am not familiar with the entire place being zoned.
15:09:07 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Quite honestly, I haven't done wet
15:09:14 zonings in a long time.
15:09:15 I believe Ms. Kert remembers one downtown.
15:09:22 >>REBECCA KERT: I do remember one coming within the
15:09:24 last year but I can't give you any more specifics.

15:09:26 But there was the same discussion because they were
15:09:30 zoning all the floors up and there was a discussion, I
15:09:34 don't want to talk about it because I don't remember
15:09:35 any specifics.
15:09:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
15:09:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: We had a couple.
15:09:55 >>> My name is Abby Cadere, I'm the agent in charge of
15:10:03 the owner of the property, and I have Luisa, who will
15:10:07 be running the nightclub portion of the building.
15:10:09 The petition was actually set by Luis.
15:10:13 And the hotel itself has been -- the owner has
15:10:17 currently owned the hotel for about three years now.
15:10:21 He has never sold beer or wine or liquor anything like
15:10:24 that.
15:10:26 And his license for the beverage, he hadn't had it wet
15:10:34 zoned, hadn't activated throughout this whole period
15:10:37 of time because he was more interested in getting his
15:10:40 hotel up to speed, and it was really economically in
15:10:44 bad shape.
15:10:45 He had to remodel the whole hotel.
15:10:47 This opportunity came along.
15:10:52 I was hired to find a tenant for his building, this

15:10:56 stand-alone building that's right next to the hotel
15:10:59 itself, and it's about 11,000 square feet.
15:11:03 Initially we were looking at restaurants, and we had
15:11:05 requests for churches to go in there.
15:11:08 But definitely a church was not allowed for the zoning
15:11:12 side.
15:11:13 And so this was going to be our best other option was
15:11:16 for an upscale nightclub for that portion of the
15:11:21 building.
15:11:22 And then in addition to that, he wanted to be able to
15:11:27 have the opportunity to sell that beer and wine to his
15:11:30 patrons of the hotel itself, as well.
15:11:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Are these interior shots?
15:11:40 Are they renderings of what we hope it will be?
15:11:43 >> Of what it will be correct.
15:11:45 >> But is this already constructed?
15:11:47 >>> No, it hasn't.
15:11:48 This is actually pictures of the other night clubs
15:11:52 that they have had.
15:11:55 They have been able to do over in Miami.
15:11:58 >> Thanks for clarifying.
15:12:04 I have seen different motifs and it didn't make sense

15:12:06 to me but now it makes sense.
15:12:08 >>> I'm sorry.
15:12:09 >> No, no, that's all right.
15:12:10 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public that
15:12:12 wants to speak on item 137?
15:12:14 >> Highland park community task force incorporation,
15:12:29 president.
15:12:30 We, the community of Highland Pines and the Highland
15:12:34 pines community tax force are opposing the wet zoning
15:12:37 of USA inn.
15:12:39 USA inn is located at the corner of Melbourne and
15:12:43 50th street.
15:12:47 What we have observed are criminals, child molesters,
15:12:50 drunks and undesirables and every statement that I
15:12:53 have said here today I can prove.
15:12:56 We as a community, along with the Oak Park elementary
15:13:00 school, and first Baptist Highland pine church are
15:13:06 against this wet zoning and dance hall.
15:13:07 We are very close to Ybor City, which has all of these
15:13:10 amenities that are on the petition for wet zoning.
15:13:16 There is a liquor store on the corner of 46th and
15:13:18 50th streets and the name of is it national

15:13:21 liquor.
15:13:22 And several convenience stores that sell beer or wine
15:13:25 within the area.
15:13:27 There are several children walking to school.
15:13:30 The first three weeks of school, I stood on the corner
15:13:33 of 46th and 21st Avenue with the code
15:13:36 enforcement to make sure I saw what was going on, and
15:13:40 to protect the children because of the traffic.
15:13:43 There were children living in the particular hotel.
15:13:46 And they were crossing 50th street coming across,
15:13:50 and I could stand and see them.
15:13:52 There are also several children that walk going to the
15:13:58 high school.
15:14:00 It is time, and we as a community, and I as the
15:14:06 president there for the past two years, would like to
15:14:09 stop having people come into our community, and then
15:14:16 they leave all of the derelicts for us.
15:14:22 Just this year alone we have had three incidents, one
15:14:24 in March on 45th street, where a man was attacked
15:14:27 and killed and no one know who did it yet.
15:14:31 Then two months ago a man was shot when he out of his
15:14:35 door at an apartment on 48th.

15:14:37 And then Tuesday before last, two young men had a
15:14:41 fight at 46th and one is clinging to his life
15:14:45 right now.
15:14:45 We have enough problems already.
15:14:47 Thank you.
15:14:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Next.
15:14:54 >>> Cleveland lane, I'm the pastor of first Baptist of
15:14:59 Highland pines, 4411 east 21st Avenue.
15:15:03 And as said, first Baptist Highland pines agrees with
15:15:10 what she said.
15:15:10 The first of First Baptist Church agrees with what she
15:15:16 said.
15:15:17 We do not want no one coming in to our community with
15:15:23 night clubs and selling alcohol anymore.
15:15:27 And we would just like the City Council, whatever is
15:15:34 in your heart that's what you do but this is what we
15:15:36 want you to do, not to allow them to open up the
15:15:39 nightclub.
15:15:40 Thank you.
15:15:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Just a moment, we have a question by
15:15:43 Mr. Dingfelder.
15:15:43 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Pastor, one of the things that they

15:15:46 are requesting is this be built within 1,000 feet of
15:15:49 residential property, residentially zoned property,
15:15:54 it's 700 feet away from, I guess, some of your folks'
15:16:00 homes.
15:16:01 Does that have a concern to you?
15:16:03 Is that part of your concern?
15:16:05 >>> Yes.
15:16:06 >> Why?
15:16:07 >>> It's a concern because as what pastor Bales said,
15:16:17 when night clubs come into the community,
15:16:20 Criminals come as well.
15:16:23 And working in your homes and doing different things
15:16:26 like that.
15:16:26 And that's the concern that we have.
15:16:28 >> It's too close?
15:16:29 >>> Too close.
15:16:33 >>> Excuse me, I have eight pages of petitions.
15:16:35 >>GWEN MILLER: Give it to our attorney here.
15:16:37 Okay, next speaker.
15:16:45 >>> My name is lily Lucas, address 3214-44th
15:16:50 street.
15:16:50 I have lived in Highland pine over 40 years.

15:16:54 I have watched my community go from a very, very good
15:16:57 community, to a community with crime everywhere, it's
15:17:05 everywhere.
15:17:05 I am totally against some more alcohol coming into
15:17:08 this community.
15:17:11 I'm totally against night clubs coming into the
15:17:14 community.
15:17:14 I feel that it's too close.
15:17:17 We have an elementary there.
15:17:18 We are trying to raise our children, and with all of
15:17:21 this coming in, it is very difficult.
15:17:23 Now we can't let our children go out of the houses
15:17:26 because we got the sex predators in the neighborhood,
15:17:29 who, by the way, I believe stay at that hotel.
15:17:32 We have to watch our children constantly.
15:17:35 And all I ask City Council is please consider this,
15:17:39 because what would you do if it was your children and
15:17:42 you can't trust the people coming in the neighborhood?
15:17:45 Thank you.
15:17:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
15:17:47 Would anyone else like to speak?
15:17:51 Petitioner, do you want a rebuttal?

15:17:52 >>> Luisa Heredia, and my husband and I are the owners
15:18:07 of the property.
15:18:08 First of all I want to clarify, there will be seating
15:18:12 outside.
15:18:13 There will be no seating outside.
15:18:15 The liquor will be -- is consumption on the premises
15:18:20 only.
15:18:21 For room service for the hotel, it will be handled by
15:18:25 our staff.
15:18:27 It's not -- the commerce from the hotel will walk in,
15:18:31 get a drink and go outside and take it over to the
15:18:34 hotel.
15:18:36 I believe that what we are trying to do, it will
15:18:38 improve right now the neighborhood.
15:18:41 We will have a 24/7 all day, all night security guard
15:18:50 patrolling the premises.
15:18:53 The people, our patrons, our customers, will be
15:18:57 searched -- we will be searching for firearms so they
15:19:05 will not go in the club, carrying any object that may
15:19:10 be harmful.
15:19:11 Nobody will be leaving the club with drinks in their
15:19:16 hands, even if it's to their cars.

15:19:20 They will be told by the security guard that they need
15:19:23 to leave the premises.
15:19:24 We will also hire off duty security officers during
15:19:27 the hours of operation.
15:19:31 And when they refer to children walking down the
15:19:35 street, we will be open Thursday through Sunday, from
15:19:39 9 p.m. to 3 a.m.
15:19:43 So hopefully there will be no children walking around
15:19:46 out there at this time.
15:19:48 >>> If I could add, the lady had mentioned something
15:19:52 about the hotel having certain patrons that might not
15:19:55 be, you know, your typical standard or class-act
15:20:01 people.
15:20:02 I want to just say this.
15:20:03 The owner is not here today because he has some health
15:20:07 issues and he's in the hospital.
15:20:09 That's the reason why he couldn't make it today.
15:20:11 He has tried really, really hard in improving that
15:20:15 building.
15:20:16 If you had taken that building and looked at it just
15:20:19 three years ago, there's a huge difference in what it
15:20:21 looks like three years ago and what it is today.

15:20:24 So he is actively trying very, very hard to improve
15:20:28 the image of, number one, the hotel, and also the type
15:20:34 of patrons that do come top the hotel.
15:20:37 I know he had some issues in the past and he's allowed
15:20:40 certain people to stay in the hotel, like families,
15:20:44 who don't have any other place to go.
15:20:47 And he would allow them to stay for a week or so at
15:20:50 the time.
15:20:51 And I wish he was here to be able to explain some
15:20:53 things that he's done.
15:20:55 But other than that he's really trying to clean up
15:20:57 that whole area.
15:21:01 And it's on the corner of I-4 and 50th street.
15:21:05 There's a lot of -- most of the patrons that she is
15:21:09 going to be dealing with, they are going to be coming
15:21:11 from outside of the city through the I-4 corridor,
15:21:15 which is very conveniently located to that building.
15:21:21 That's pretty much it.
15:21:22 >> What kind of hotel, is it going to be an upscale
15:21:25 hotel?
15:21:26 >> Not at the present moment.
15:21:27 He has gone through a complete remodel whether where

15:21:30 he has changed out the sinks to granite countertops,
15:21:33 agreed to do the flooring and everything but the
15:21:35 current room rates are as this present time around 60
15:21:38 to $70 per night, and they go hire for some of the
15:21:44 swats, and he is trying stow improve the room quality
15:21:46 to be able to go for a higher roommate.
15:21:51 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Just to get my bearings straight, I
15:21:56 see the shell station. This comes to an apex just
15:22:00 south of the shell station, and just south of the
15:22:04 southwest, used to have a holiday inn, and this hotel
15:22:10 at one time was the executive in-in or something, it
15:22:13 changed three or four times, the ownership changed,
15:22:16 went from a very nice place, nothing wrong with
15:22:19 truckers but it was a truckers haven where they pull
15:22:21 off the road and stay there.
15:22:23 I would like to ask the following questions if I may
15:22:25 to get another bearing straight in my mind.
15:22:27 You said there was one that you own in Miami.
15:22:30 Where at in Miami?
15:22:34 >>> I was assistant manager, my brother-in-law on the
15:22:39 place.
15:22:40 It's on 36th street, Palmetto.

15:22:45 >> 36th street off Palmetto?
15:22:48 >>> That's correct.
15:22:49 >> Is that in the city of Miami?
15:22:51 >> City of Miami.
15:22:52 >> That's southwest?
15:22:53 >> Southwest.
15:22:54 If you are taking it south, exit 36th street and
15:23:01 it's right there on the corner.
15:23:04 >> That's between 8th and Flagler.
15:23:07 >> And Flagler, correct.
15:23:09 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
15:23:12 The next question is, in my own little mind is,
15:23:16 usually when you have an in-service and a type of room
15:23:21 service is a one structured building that is enclosed
15:23:25 completely around and goes upward.
15:23:28 In this case you are asking this council to -- I'm
15:23:31 sorry, my three minutes.
15:23:34 To expand the service and include to transport the
15:23:43 liquor.
15:23:43 What is on my mind is, why would anyone that goes to a
15:23:46 nightclub to have a show or to just watch TV and have
15:23:51 a couple of drinks, need room service after that

15:23:54 person already had a couple of drinks?
15:24:00 >>> To be honest with you, sir, what we are here today
15:24:04 is to get the stand-along property wet zoned.
15:24:10 The extra part, which the owner never even considered
15:24:13 selling alcohol to his patrons but was an after
15:24:17 thought and extra way to increase revenue, but the
15:24:20 main part was, her part where she was going to be
15:24:23 putting a stand alone.
15:24:24 >> Let's talk about the extra revenue.
15:24:26 Do you think that somebody that's going to go to a
15:24:28 motel doesn't bring their own bottle?
15:24:32 >> You're asking --
15:24:34 >> If you have a nightclub, from way see, the motif or
15:24:39 the standard, the mode of operation is a very top
15:24:43 class, and done very well, intended purposes, but
15:24:48 those individuals are going to go to a nightclub, and
15:24:50 they are going to have another drink.
15:24:52 They aren't going to buy a bottle from you for $35
15:24:54 when they can buy it for $15.
15:24:56 They are going to bring their own bottle.
15:24:58 >> And you are absolutely correct.
15:25:00 I was referring mostly to not only the alcohol, the

15:25:03 drinks, but the appetizers that we will be serving,
15:25:07 such as burgers and fries, and chicken wings, and some
15:25:13 Spanish -- that's what I was referring to.
15:25:21 Mostly food.
15:25:23 Rather than alcohol.
15:25:25 >> Again question in my own mind, I understand part.
15:25:29 I don't understand the other part.
15:25:31 It has not been explained to me heretofore.
15:25:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Let Mr. Dingfelder explain.
15:25:37 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: No, I won't even try.
15:25:41 Can I ask a question?
15:25:42 Officer, the ax facility showing 861 feet away,
15:25:53 addiction receiving facility, can you tell us a little
15:25:56 more about that, number one?
15:25:58 And number two, TPD didn't express an objection.
15:26:02 But you also didn't tell us much about the history,
15:26:08 criminal history at that property in the last couple
15:26:11 of years.
15:26:15 Whether there's a criminal history at that building.
15:26:18 >>> Officer Miller: That particular section that has
15:26:21 been wet zoned has been closed down for awhile now.
15:26:25 The hotel has had issues with criminal activity.

15:26:29 The ax facility is an intake for people who are
15:26:33 intoxicated, need to come down, detox, and then right
15:26:37 next door to that which is a daytime facility, also.
15:26:43 Within 860 feet, I believe, of the hotel.
15:26:46 >> So maybe the location might be convenient.
15:26:50 Okay, thank you.
15:26:51 >>GWEN MILLER: Other questions by council members?
15:26:54 Need to close.
15:26:59 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Did you all meet with the residents,
15:27:01 meet westbound the pastor of the church at any point
15:27:03 to discuss this particular item?
15:27:05 >>> To be honest with you, councilman, when we set up
15:27:08 the meeting with zoning, we found out at that point
15:27:11 that there was objection.
15:27:12 We didn't know that there was any objection going all
15:27:15 the way through.
15:27:16 And we did what the zoning had told us which was
15:27:20 contact everybody within a certain number of feet, and
15:27:24 they said that the procedure was that they would
15:27:27 contact you if they had any issues.
15:27:30 But obviously we have never gone through this before
15:27:33 so we didn't know that there was anybody that had an

15:27:36 objection.
15:27:37 You know, some of the people that spoke here today, we
15:27:40 actual ly were able to catch them during the middle,
15:27:43 before you --
15:27:45 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Let me ask the president.
15:27:48 Are you all interested in meeting with this particular
15:27:50 person to see if there is a compromise or what want to
15:27:54 iron out any problems?
15:27:55 Because we aren't going anywhere but that's up to you
15:28:00 all.
15:28:01 What I will say to the applicant, I'm very familiar
15:28:03 with it, very familiar with island pine and the
15:28:06 criminal activity and Georgia what goes on there,
15:28:09 Hartline and all that stuff, and where your facility
15:28:12 is.
15:28:14 Council Miranda is very familiar with the area as
15:28:16 well.
15:28:17 And you have got several hotels, the names have been
15:28:21 changed, they have not done well in that area, I can
15:28:23 tell that you now.
15:28:24 And pretty much undesirables, I will tell you that.
15:28:32 And since Highland pines has been trying to go through

15:28:35 redevelopment, this has the potential adding back to
15:28:41 it the criminal element.
15:28:42 And so, you know, I'm wondering as pastor do you all
15:28:50 want top meet with the applicant to discuss your
15:28:52 concerns or issues?
15:28:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Will you come to the microphone?
15:28:56 >>> Thank you.
15:28:59 After we have the break here, we were bombarded by
15:29:03 these two people.
15:29:04 And I was very offended by it, because we have been
15:29:08 incorporated with the state for eleven years.
15:29:13 When the developer decided to buy that hotel, I was at
15:29:17 the East Tampa meeting.
15:29:18 They asked for help.
15:29:20 They have been in touch with me.
15:29:22 They have just been there.
15:29:24 And I was there when they signed the paperwork.
15:29:26 But these people said they didn't know anything about
15:29:28 us.
15:29:30 And we have been there for eleven years.
15:29:33 Incorporated with the state.
15:29:36 So I really and truly don't want to talk to them

15:29:39 because of the way it has gone down, and during the
15:29:42 break how they just bombard us, trying to make us
15:29:46 change our mind.
15:29:47 And I have, like I said, been on that corner and every
15:29:52 statement that I made today, I can prove it.
15:29:55 And that's what I'm standing behind.
15:29:57 I can prove every statement that I stated today.
15:30:02 I do not want to talk to them.
15:30:06 >>THOMAS SCOTT: Move to close the hearing.
15:30:08 >> I have a motion and second to close.
15:30:09 (Motion carried).
15:30:10 >> What's the pleasure of council?
15:30:13 >> I am going to move to deny the petition based on
15:30:16 here again the evidence which was presented to us
15:30:17 today.
15:30:19 >> Second.
15:30:24 >>REBECCA KERT: If City Council finds the applicant
15:30:28 has failed to meet their burden to demonstrate the
15:30:30 sale of alcoholic beverages will be incidental to the
15:30:32 primary use, a bar/nightclub hotel, then chapter 3,
15:30:42 section 370-A-6.
15:30:46 >>THOMAS SCOTT: It requires waiving certain

15:30:48 restrictions?
15:30:50 >>REBECCA KERT: Right. That would be 370, A, 2, 3 and
15:30:53 4.
15:30:54 >>THOMAS SCOTT: To waive distance of church, school,
15:31:00 to be in violation.
15:31:01 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Also if I can add that section 3-73
15:31:06 allows council to impose conditions if it can be shown
15:31:11 that -- otherwise there would be an adverse effect or
15:31:17 effect on the residents or other properties within the
15:31:21 vicinity and if it's a finding of fact that you cannot
15:31:23 impose conditions that would not mitigate those
15:31:25 adverse impacts.
15:31:26 That would also suffice.
15:31:28 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Dingfelder?
15:31:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And I am pleased to second Reverend
15:31:33 Scott's motion, and specifically relying on testimony
15:31:40 including the pastor in regard to the proximity of the
15:31:44 proposed, I'll call it, to residential as well as to
15:31:48 the ax treatment, or ax receiving facility which is
15:31:53 alcohol receiving facility.
15:31:56 I think that is a troubled area, and we don't need to
15:31:59 be going in that direction.

15:32:01 Perhaps in another couple of years and can improve
15:32:07 itself to go in the direction that it appears to be
15:32:09 going, then maybe down the road, the neighborhood
15:32:12 might be more amenable to something like that.
15:32:14 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second for denial.
15:32:16 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
15:32:18 Opposed, Nay.
15:32:21 (Motion carried)
15:32:22 We need to open item 138.
15:32:24 >> So moved.
15:32:24 >> Second.
15:32:25 (Motion carried).
15:32:25 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
15:32:36 Printed for this case were unfortunately for the area
15:32:38 on Armenia so I don't have the aerials to give you.
15:32:41 I'm quite sure Mr. Miranda can explain where this is,
15:32:44 at the corner of Lois and Hillsborough.
15:32:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I know exactly where it's at.
15:32:51 Do you want me to tell you?
15:32:53 >>> There is a Hardee's.
15:32:54 There is a Walgreen's.
15:32:55 There is the school and the Hooters and the gas

15:32:57 station, and on the other corner -- I know that area
15:33:02 well.
15:33:08 WZ07-133, 4340 west Hillsborough Avenue, unit 400,
15:33:19 2APS package sales, beer and wine only in conjunction
15:33:22 with a grocery store, the wet zone area will contain
15:33:33 2118 square feet.
15:33:35 On the photo, from the survey itself, included in your
15:33:39 packet, this is the Bravo grocery store.
15:33:46 There are no wet zoned residential or institutional
15:33:49 uses within a thousand feet.
15:33:50 They are seeking no waivers.
15:33:52 Staff has no objection.
15:33:58 >>>Overs Miller, City of Tampa police department, we
15:34:00 have no objections to this wet zoning.
15:34:01 >> Petitioner?
15:34:02 >> Did I see that the surveyor was David Smith?
15:34:11 >>> Richard Diaz, Wesley chapel, Florida.
15:34:24 I would like to make a correction.
15:34:26 The size of this grocery store is 22,000 square feet.
15:34:30 22,173 square feet, I believe.
15:34:35 In the interest -- I'm sorry.
15:34:41 >>GWEN MILLER: Is there anyone in the public to speak

15:34:43 on item 138?
15:34:45 >> Move to close.
15:34:46 >> Second.
15:34:46 (Motion carried).
15:34:47 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Mulhern, would you read that,
15:34:52 please?
15:34:53 138.
15:34:55 >>MARY MULHERN: I move an ordinance being presented
15:34:57 for first reading for consideration, an ordinance
15:34:59 making lawful the sale of beverages regardless of
15:35:01 alcohol of more than 1% by weight and not more than
15:35:04 14% by weight and wines regardless of alcoholic
15:35:06 content, beer and wine, 2(APS), in sealed containers
15:35:11 for consumption off premises only at or from that
15:35:14 certain lot, plot or tract of land located at 4340
15:35:17 west Hillsborough Avenue, unit 400, Tampa, Florida, as
15:35:20 more particularly described in section 2 hereof,
15:35:23 providing for repeal of all ordinances in conflict,
15:35:27 providing an effective date.
15:35:28 >>CHAIRMAN: I have a motion and second.
15:35:29 (Motion carried).
15:35:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Number 140.

15:35:41 >> Open 140.
15:35:42 >> Second.
15:35:42 (Motion carried).
15:35:43 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
15:35:48 The request is WZ 07-136, 2221 West Platt street,
15:35:54 requesting a 4(COP-R), sales of beer, wine and liquor
15:35:57 in conjunction with a restaurant use.
15:35:59 The restaurant will have approximately 50 feet, locate
15:36:04 outside according to the staff report, the alcoholic
15:36:08 sales are incidental as note, to the restaurant.
15:36:12 There are eleven wet zoned properties within a
15:36:18 thousand feet.
15:36:19 Two residential properties within a thousand feet and
15:36:21 zero institutional uses within a thousand feet as
15:36:24 noted on page 2.
15:36:26 You will note the section 370 general guidelines,
15:36:30 paragraph 8, which speak about the certain districts
15:36:35 that allow waivers from certain criteria, one of them
15:36:40 being the South Howard district, this does lie within
15:36:43 that district, according to the report.
15:36:45 In addition to and on page 3 of the staff report you
15:36:49 will note that council may consider A through E,

15:36:53 offstreet parking and lighting, control, essentially
15:36:58 adverse effects within this district.
15:37:00 Staff had no objections to the request.
15:37:06 You will note the parking area and the building with
15:37:09 the outside patio area.
15:37:12 Please also note that with the R designation they are
15:37:14 required to follow the semiannual reporting
15:37:16 requirements.
15:37:22 And that is the structure.
15:37:34 >>> Officer Miller, City of Tampa police department.
15:37:36 Police department has no objection to this wet zoning.
15:37:40 >>GWEN MILLER: Petitioner?
15:37:40 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Here on behalf of Nick Awad, the
15:37:47 owner of the property.
15:37:48 Basically, it's about a 1590 square foot building that
15:37:53 we have already been through the change of use on.
15:37:55 We have been through Construction Services Center and
15:37:57 have received site plan approval for the change of use
15:38:01 going from retail office to restaurant.
15:38:06 The site plan that we have approved -- the site plan
15:38:17 that we have approved in going through the various
15:38:20 departments, transportation had us remove parking,

15:38:24 that backed into Platt Street and removed parking that
15:38:27 backed into Howard.
15:38:28 We have our parking over here, which meets the code
15:38:31 for this facility.
15:38:34 And they are asking us to put in two parallel spaces
15:38:37 on Platt Street.
15:38:41 >>CHAIRMAN: Is there anyone in the public that came to
15:38:43 speak upon item 140?
15:38:47 One opposition.
15:38:50 >>STEVE MICHELINI: I just want to show you, this being
15:38:53 converted.
15:38:55 Cathy showed you a second ago.
15:38:56 It's 1590 square feet which is fairly small.
15:39:00 It's going to be operated by Bernardo Augustino who
15:39:05 used to own and operate caffé AMIA, this is not a
15:39:15 nightclub, they wish to be able to offer alcohol with
15:39:17 the meals, and as you know, with R they have to serve
15:39:21 51% food versus 49% alcohol.
15:39:26 I would be happy to respond to Carmen.
15:39:38 >>> Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.
15:39:41 It's always a pleasure to visit with you.
15:39:44 And spend the day with you.

15:39:46 My name is Walter Crumbley, 503 south west Avenue.
15:39:51 I have been sworn.
15:39:53 And I am the president of the Courier City Oscawana
15:39:56 residents homeowners association.
15:40:00 And I didn't want you to be disappointed so I brought
15:40:03 you a little handout.
15:40:10 If you will take a look at that handout, you will
15:40:12 notice that within three blocks of this site, there
15:40:17 are 16 places that serve beer, wine or liquor.
15:40:21 The homeowners association is trying to build a
15:40:28 neighborhood.
15:40:29 We are everything a hell of a time doing it.
15:40:31 For the simple reason that we are overrun with bars
15:40:36 and people and traffic, and I don't know how many
15:40:39 times I have been down here and dealt with you all
15:40:41 about the parking issues, and nobody is providing any
15:40:45 parking.
15:40:50 Besides that, we have noticed that not withstanding
15:40:53 the open container law, we still find on Fridays and
15:40:58 Saturdays and Sundays, empty beer cans, empty drink
15:41:04 glasses and other sorts of litter spread throughout
15:41:07 our neighborhood and there's only one or two places it

15:41:09 could have come from.
15:41:13 You will also notice that people, for some strange
15:41:16 reason when they have had a few drinks, and don't get
15:41:20 me wrong, I like a drink myself from time to time,
15:41:22 like to go and tear down all the city signage, the
15:41:25 stop signs, the no-parking signs, and when they get
15:41:29 through with that, they also come up as they have at
15:41:32 my house, for instance, smash the orchid plants,
15:41:39 through rocks through the windows and in case you
15:41:41 didn't know what was going on at two and three in the
15:41:44 morning they are out in the street hollering like
15:41:45 banshees and just everything a great time.
15:41:51 What I'm trying to tell you is, we don't need any more
15:41:55 alcohol in this neighborhood.
15:41:58 You know, Ms. Mulhern maybe came up with the best
15:42:00 idea, just wet zone the whole damn city.
15:42:05 Quite frankly, it's killing us.
15:42:08 We have got people with families and children in that
15:42:11 neighborhood.
15:42:13 And after 8:30 or 9:00 on weekend nights you don't
15:42:17 dare go out in the street.
15:42:20 You have got drunks wandering around and all sorts of

15:42:26 things happening out there.
15:42:28 And our association unanimously voted to oppose this
15:42:34 petition.
15:42:37 I know this guy wants a restaurant.
15:42:39 Look how many places we got to eat already.
15:42:42 And you're just pulling all these people into our
15:42:47 neighborhood.
15:42:48 And maybe you should change it from Courier City to
15:42:51 little Ybor, because that's what's happening to us.
15:42:55 And that's what all the drinking and all the bars are
15:42:58 doing to us.
15:43:03 Enough.
15:43:08 We either need to change our name or just give us a
15:43:12 little break here.
15:43:13 Thank you.
15:43:14 (Bell sounds).
15:43:16 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Walter, a question for you.
15:43:20 An interesting twist in terms of the direction of the
15:43:24 neighborhood, just in terms of the fact that you all
15:43:27 have been supportive of some other small restaurants.
15:43:33 I can think of one, the mid eastern restaurant.
15:43:35 >>> The oasis.

15:43:38 >> And I think we gave them a temporary one year and
15:43:40 then they proved themselves.
15:43:41 And then they were good.
15:43:45 And I think when the R is attached, you all tended to
15:43:49 be supportive.
15:43:53 So this is a change that I can see.
15:43:56 >>> Well, one of the things you need to look at is, on
15:44:01 that corner, three of the four corners already serve
15:44:07 alcohol, you know.
15:44:10 How much do you need in one area?
15:44:12 >> So I guess just to finish my thought, you feel you
15:44:15 have reached sort of a critical mass?
15:44:17 >>> That's right.
15:44:18 We just overloaded with it, quite frankly.
15:44:20 >> Would anyone else like to speak?
15:44:23 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: For Mr. Crumbley once more.
15:44:33 I just wanted to make sure I understood.
15:44:35 The civic association voted --
15:44:41 >>> yes, ma'am.
15:44:41 Right.
15:44:42 To oppose the granting of an alcohol license of any
15:44:48 sort.

15:44:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you for the clarification.
15:44:53 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Crumbly, we have another one.
15:45:00 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: You gave us about 15 names.
15:45:03 >>> 16.
15:45:03 >> 16.
15:45:06 Do every one of these present a problem that you're
15:45:08 talking about?
15:45:09 >>> No, sir.
15:45:09 >> They don't?
15:45:10 >>> No, sir.
15:45:11 >> One of them is a McDonald's.
15:45:13 They serve beer only.
15:45:15 Chipotle?
15:45:20 >>> That's a McDonald's franchise, yes, sir.
15:45:22 >> So how many out of these 16 present a problem to
15:45:26 you?
15:45:35 >>> About six.
15:45:36 >> So the police officers would tell us about six
15:45:40 present problems to you in your opinion?
15:45:44 >>> Perhaps.
15:45:45 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Thank you.
15:45:47 >>GWEN MILLER: You wanted to say something?

15:45:52 >>CATHERINE COYLE: I needed to clarify something for
15:45:53 the record.
15:45:54 I wasn't the one who prepared the report.
15:45:56 The section 370, the general guidelines that I had
15:45:59 noted on the bottom of page 2 and on page 3 do not
15:46:02 apply.
15:46:03 So please strike them from your report.
15:46:07 Actually, these criteria apply when the sales is not
15:46:11 incidental to the primary use.
15:46:12 And this is incidental.
15:46:14 They are requesting an R classification which also
15:46:16 requires the reporting.
15:46:18 So please strike that from your report.
15:46:20 You go by a standard criteria for waivers of the three
15:46:22 provisions.
15:46:24 >>> I have not been sworn.
15:46:30 (Oath administered by Clerk)
15:46:35 Yes, I do.
15:46:36 My I live at 2109 Bayshore Boulevard.
15:46:41 Probably best known for say hello Tampa.com.
15:46:47 South Tampa area has a unique distinction of
15:46:51 restaurants, bars and southbound a place that is an

15:46:53 attraction where people come to.
15:46:55 We are in a tremendous transition right now as a lot
15:46:57 of Tampa is, but especially in Soho, that are
15:47:02 occurring with the property that's been occupied with
15:47:04 the Soho which is about to be eliminated, and turned
15:47:08 into ab new residential and retail space.
15:47:11 The property that Mr. White has presented is one of
15:47:17 the first to step forward with an R classification
15:47:19 clearly indicating their plans to be a restaurant
15:47:21 rather than a bar.
15:47:24 Along with that, Mr. Augustino has a true reputation
15:47:30 for running a great restaurant, really different from
15:47:33 what the other Soho locations are.
15:47:37 It is a booming place that is hard to get something to
15:47:39 eat at.
15:47:40 What D'Agostino's is presenting, it seems to be hard
15:47:48 to imagine in Tampa to have an Italian restaurant that
15:47:50 you can't have a glass of wine at.
15:47:52 And I think they are bringing a very reasonable
15:47:54 request.
15:47:55 Mr. Wyatt is a very respected businessman in the Soho
15:47:59 area and that property as well, not only did it have

15:48:02 the adequate parking for that facility, which also
15:48:06 seems to have been a rarity for that area, it's also a
15:48:10 case of a building that has been in transition, it was
15:48:13 a laundromat that was not very attractive and frankly
15:48:16 not very well maintained, then became a mortgage
15:48:19 office that looked really nice but of course that
15:48:22 happened when the mortgage mart decided to collapse,
15:48:24 and Mr. D'Agostino wanted to come in with a you knew
15:48:29 plan, I think a viable plan for Soho and South Tampa.
15:48:34 >>MARY MULHERN: Mr. Crumbley, I thought were going to
15:48:38 complain about the parking, and I'm glad to see there
15:48:40 seems to be adequate parking here.
15:48:45 I feel bad to not support the neighborhood
15:48:47 association, but I feel like we don't really have any
15:48:50 real basis to deny this.
15:48:53 And it is a restaurant first.
15:48:57 And it doesn't sound like for any reason it would be
15:48:59 one of the troublesome ones, if they have enough
15:49:05 parking.
15:49:05 So I tend to think -- I know how you feel about the
15:49:09 critical mass, and I wish maybe our officer can tell
15:49:14 us if there's some way we can work on the ones that

15:49:19 are the troublesome bars in the area as opposed to not
15:49:23 allowing any restaurants.
15:49:35 >>> As far as the problem, restaurants or bars in the
15:49:37 area, we are working diligently to pay them more
15:49:42 attention, more detail on some of the issues.
15:49:48 Underage drinking, things like that.
15:49:49 So enforcement has been stepped up to the area, very
15:49:52 busy, DUI enforcement in that area.
15:49:55 But I'll keep working hard at it, probably get it all
15:50:02 under control, but as you know, I have some different
15:50:09 duties on Friday and Saturday nights and the police
15:50:11 department is out there trying to keep things under
15:50:14 control.
15:50:17 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: We have been working with some of
15:50:21 the residents, my office has, regarding the enormous
15:50:26 amount of traffic congestion at night, from 10:00 to
15:50:30 2:00 in the morning.
15:50:32 I have travelled back two or three times, coming from
15:50:37 my daughter's house late in the evening, with my wife,
15:50:40 and I traveled every street, north, south, east and
15:50:43 west, and I had a lot of difficulty with a Volkswagen
15:50:48 in my way because they park on both sides of the

15:50:50 street, and two cars can't make it through the
15:50:55 roadway.
15:50:55 But this is not coming from those place that is are
15:50:58 truly restaurants.
15:51:00 This is coming from other places that I really don't
15:51:02 want to mention now because they have been under
15:51:04 surveillance like the police officer said, and they
15:51:06 have been working all these things, what's going on.
15:51:10 You find enormous amount of people walking, and
15:51:12 sometimes that's good.
15:51:14 If people don't walk, you don't see what's going on
15:51:18 but sometimes that's bad because sometimes they aren't
15:51:22 walking straight line.
15:51:24 They walk like they are walking on the curb.
15:51:28 And it's not the most -- thing that's best for the
15:51:33 neighborhood but again I think it's going to improve
15:51:36 the neighborhood.
15:51:37 It's going to have to come to some consensus.
15:51:40 They park everywhere.
15:51:41 And I don't know what the answer is but the police
15:51:43 department has been working on it to see possibly
15:51:48 parking on only one side of the road that may prohibit

15:51:51 some neighborhood individuals from having three or
15:51:53 four cars at one time there.
15:51:54 And I don't want to do that either.
15:51:56 I want somebody who has a house who has the
15:51:59 opportunity to have a friend or relative or family
15:52:01 member come to have the right to park across from the
15:52:03 house.
15:52:04 But the way it is now, it is very difficult for those
15:52:07 residents to have that and to have the amenities of
15:52:12 life, because there's all kinds of honking of horns,
15:52:17 and things that I guess people do when they have more
15:52:22 than two drinks, in some cases.
15:52:26 But I don't believe that a stable building with a
15:52:33 stable tenant with adequate parking -- I was in the
15:52:37 restaurant business for many years -- would create
15:52:41 drunkenness.
15:52:42 I am not going to tell you somebody can't get drunk in
15:52:44 a restaurant.
15:52:45 They certainly can.
15:52:46 But usually, I don't see too many people in a
15:52:48 restaurant having more than two drinks.
15:52:50 They have their meal, and different force of

15:52:54 digesting.
15:52:55 But when you have different places here that are being
15:53:00 looked at, those are the ones that are creating the
15:53:02 problems in the neighborhood.
15:53:03 And I am not going to mention them, because I know of
15:53:06 some activities going on.
15:53:09 >> Mr. Dingfelder.
15:53:09 >> Activities?
15:53:14 [ Laughter ]
15:53:14 >> Getting late in the day.
15:53:22 I think the concerns of the neighborhood which you
15:53:24 anticipated, Steve, need to be addressed.
15:53:28 And I think that there could be some mitigation with
15:53:30 some voluntary conditions.
15:53:32 For one thing, hours of operation.
15:53:34 I don't know if we heard that.
15:53:35 It's a restaurant.
15:53:38 I think some reasonable hours of operation, and I'm
15:53:41 sure you probably already talked to your client about
15:53:44 might be something that you could suggest to us, and
15:53:46 perhaps impose on yourself.
15:53:48 Let's start with that one.

15:53:58 >>STEVE MICHELINI: We did talk about that briefly.
15:54:00 And legitimately restaurants, unless you're catering
15:54:06 to a late night crowd on the weekends, probably should
15:54:09 close at 1 a.m., at the latest.
15:54:12 And during the weekday, that's Sunday, Monday, Tuesday
15:54:15 and Wednesday at midnight.
15:54:20 What happens on a later night crowd is Thursday,
15:54:22 Friday and Saturday, people tend to stay a little
15:54:24 longer.
15:54:25 And the problem that you have is they can't even serve
15:54:30 food past that hour now, according to your city codes.
15:54:35 We were trying to work with some amendments that would
15:54:37 allow the restaurant portion to stay open, and stop
15:54:40 serving alcohol.
15:54:41 But if you remember, you know, we talked about it, the
15:54:44 police department came down and said, no, if it's
15:54:47 closed, it's closed.
15:54:49 So that means the kitchen has to close.
15:54:50 That means the patrons have to be done.
15:54:53 And you're finished.
15:54:54 So we are hamstrung by that code provision.
15:54:58 And that's why we were suggesting at 1 a.m. on

15:55:01 Thursday, Friday and Saturday, that allows you time to
15:55:04 finish your meal, if you came in late, and even
15:55:08 football games that you go to that are high school
15:55:10 games are getting out at 10:30 or 11:00 at night.
15:55:14 That means you order at 11.
15:55:15 You get fed by 12.
15:55:17 And you have to be out by one.
15:55:19 Those are reasonable hours.
15:55:23 I don't make these times up.
15:55:25 That's just the way they are.
15:55:26 If you go to a play at the Performing Arts Center
15:55:29 you're out at 10:30 or 11.
15:55:32 The same thing applies.
15:55:33 You're in the restaurant at 11:30 or 12.
15:55:35 >> Getting late.
15:55:37 >>STEVE MICHELINI: Anyway, those are reasonable hours.
15:55:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Can be we say Sunday to Wednesday,
15:55:42 11 p.m.?
15:55:44 It just seems like on those nights of the week that
15:55:46 would be reasonable.
15:55:47 You're within five feet of a residential -- let me
15:55:50 finish -- within five feet of a residential property

15:55:53 according to your own petition.
15:55:57 >>> It's an apartment building.
15:55:58 >> Well, it is what it is, right across the way.
15:56:02 You're within probably 20 feet of a condominium that
15:56:06 you approve.
15:56:07 >>> Sunday, Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday is fine
15:56:12 11:00 o'clock.
15:56:13 >> And 1:00.
15:56:15 >> Thursday, Friday and Saturday.
15:56:16 >> And then the other question I had -- and this does
15:56:19 concern me because that entire neighborhood becomes a
15:56:22 big, now, he have Saturday morning, Friday morning,
15:56:26 Saturday morning, Sunday morning you can go to that
15:56:28 neighborhood and you see trash, you see cups and
15:56:31 bottles and cans all around the neighborhood.
15:56:33 Okay.
15:56:34 Now I recognize nobody is supposed to leave a
15:56:36 restaurant with a drink.
15:56:38 They are not supposed to leave a restaurant within a
15:56:40 drink in their hand.
15:56:41 But I am going to tell you that it happened.
15:56:43 And if there's a way that we can keep it from

15:56:46 happening is if you served in nondisposable
15:56:50 containers, okay?
15:56:51 In other words, if it's a restaurant, and you can
15:56:53 serve beer and wine and liquor, you can serve in
15:56:55 glasses as compared to plastic or aluminum or glass
15:56:59 bottles, and then than way you can be pretty sure
15:57:01 people aren't going to walk out.
15:57:04 I don't know, it's a suggestion.
15:57:07 Eights friendly suggestion.
15:57:08 But if it's a true restaurant -- and I remember
15:57:13 CASA-MIA, a nice restaurant.
15:57:16 >>> Serving -- to-go containers.
15:57:24 People do take to-go containers for food and things
15:57:28 like that.
15:57:28 But alcohol is served in glass.
15:57:30 In glasses.
15:57:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: And then the last question I had
15:57:36 was where is the outdoor seating?
15:57:38 >>> It's in a ten by ten deck.
15:57:41 It's on Howard.
15:57:41 >> I just want to make sure it's on Howard or Platt
15:57:44 and not on the side.

15:57:45 >>> It's right here, if you will look.
15:57:47 >> I'm good with that.
15:57:49 >>> 10 by 20, I'm sorry.
15:57:51 >> And I appreciate these concessions.
15:57:55 I have concern that 50 feet establishment and you are
15:57:58 giving eleven spaces, I have some concern that that's
15:58:01 not necessarily adequate parking, because most people
15:58:05 don't -- if our code says it's adequate then there's
15:58:11 not a whole lot we can do about it.
15:58:13 >>> We have been through all the calculations for.
15:58:15 That but in addition to that, Mr. Awad owns the
15:58:18 building immediately to the south, which is closed at
15:58:20 night.
15:58:20 He owns Sofast which is available in the evening for
15:58:24 all of the patrons at the restaurant.
15:58:26 >> All right.
15:58:27 So with those conditions I can support it.
15:58:34 >>MARY MULHERN: You shouldn't have spoke so soon,
15:58:37 because here we are very late in this meeting.
15:58:38 I think if you are going give them a wet zoning and
15:58:41 allow them to have a restaurant that's going to
15:58:44 function, we shouldn't have to reinvent the hours and

15:58:47 the code every time we give someone a wet zoning.
15:58:50 It's not consistent.
15:58:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It's in the neighborhood and that's
15:58:54 why I'm doing it.
15:58:54 >>MARY MULHERN: John.
15:58:57 So if you have been here voting for these wet zonings
15:59:00 every one of these restaurants can have different
15:59:02 hours.
15:59:02 And I know there are restaurants now having trouble
15:59:06 because they have these restrictions on when they can
15:59:09 be open.
15:59:10 So I just think these'-either vote for it or don't
15:59:13 vote for it.
15:59:14 I'm not going to keep rewriting and making exceptions
15:59:19 and making conditions every time somebody wants to
15:59:21 open a business.
15:59:22 You either think it's okay to serve beer and wine at
15:59:25 your restaurant or not.
15:59:31 >>> In working with the neighborhood -- and we work
15:59:34 very closely with Walter and the Courier city group to
15:59:37 try to bring under control some of the issues that are
15:59:40 causing neighborhood parking and drinking problems.

15:59:43 And the unmentionable locations are causing problems
15:59:48 for legitimate family-run businesses.
15:59:51 Not just the restaurants.
15:59:52 They are causing trouble for all of the other retail
15:59:55 establishments.
15:59:56 And so it's a pervasive problem that can't be
15:59:59 addressed just by manipulation of operating hours.
16:00:02 We know that.
16:00:03 Walter knows that.
16:00:04 And he's frustrated.
16:00:06 That's why he came down and said, we don't want
16:00:08 anymore.
16:00:08 But you can't do that because if you start doing that,
16:00:11 then the only thing left will be the bars and the
16:00:14 nonlegitimate businesses and you will have run out all
16:00:18 of the legitimate restaurants and all legitimate
16:00:21 restaurants that can no longer survive.
16:00:23 So they are on the same page here.
16:00:25 But they can't afford a denial.
16:00:27 And we have got to move forward.
16:00:29 And if than means that we have to make a concession
16:00:31 here today, we'll make it in order to move forward to

16:00:34 survive.
16:00:34 >>MARY MULHERN: I don't think you should have to make
16:00:38 that concession.
16:00:39 And we have four restaurants on that -- in that
16:00:43 intersection on every corner.
16:00:44 Do they all have different hours?
16:00:45 I know that wings and strings got some bizarre hours.
16:00:49 >>> TC Chois has no restrictive hours.
16:00:57 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to ask Mr. Crumbley a
16:01:04 question.
16:01:08 Mr. Crumbly, I am extremely sympathetic to the
16:01:15 treatment of Courier City by all these commercial
16:01:17 uses.
16:01:18 And I wonder if you have any suggestions for us.
16:01:25 >>> Walter: Well, we met with the transportation
16:01:29 department three or four times.
16:01:34 They suggest, in tight budgets, vanished before my
16:01:43 eyes and they half heartedly took to heart the fire
16:01:47 marshal's report that said you should only park on one
16:01:50 side of the street.
16:01:52 They came out.
16:01:53 They put up a few signs which the vandals promptly

16:01:56 took down.
16:01:58 My wife, bless her heart, does a daily patrol on
16:02:03 checks on all the signs and calls down to
16:02:05 transportation and says, these are missing today, and
16:02:07 you can find them laying in this yard, and go out
16:02:10 there and put them back up.
16:02:17 The police, quite frankly, when this all started back
16:02:23 in 2006 I called up the police department.
16:02:25 What can I do?
16:02:26 Bless their hearts, they said, put a 5-minute parking
16:02:29 sign out there.
16:02:30 That will clear up the problem.
16:02:32 Okay, I did.
16:02:33 Since July of 2006, I have had the police come out and
16:02:39 ticket as of last night --
16:02:44 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Chairman, could we move on
16:02:45 with this?
16:02:46 >> We need to move on.
16:02:52 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Excuse me, I have the floor.
16:02:53 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I'm sorry, I thought you talked
16:02:55 already.
16:02:55 Go ahead, I'm sorry.

16:02:58 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I asked Mr. Crumbly for a specific
16:03:02 suggestion.
16:03:02 If you could --
16:03:05 >>> specifically, number one, enforce the open
16:03:07 container law.
16:03:09 Now whatever it takes.
16:03:12 Put out police officers or vigilante busy stop all
16:03:20 this walking through the neighborhood drinking and
16:03:25 destroying the neighborhood and that will ultimately,
16:03:27 I think, resolve most of the other issues that we
16:03:30 have.
16:03:36 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
16:03:36 >>GWEN MILLER: Mr. Caetano.
16:03:39 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I commend a small businessman for
16:03:42 starting a business today.
16:03:43 I have been in small business for almost 40 years and
16:03:45 it's rough out there.
16:03:46 He's got to work his butt off to make money in that
16:03:50 restaurant.
16:03:50 This City Council has ruined this city by allowing all
16:03:54 of the permits for Ybor.
16:03:56 We got 50 police officers down there on weekends.

16:04:00 I know where I live, one fifth of the ad valorem tax
16:04:03 comes from that area.
16:04:05 And we got 32 police officers, 24/7.
16:04:09 We are missing about 80.
16:04:15 Are you going to have a police officer in your place,
16:04:17 sir?
16:04:17 You don't need one, right?
16:04:18 Because you run a food establishment.
16:04:20 I don't know why we are wasting our time.
16:04:23 I move to close the hearing.
16:04:30 >> Thank you, Mr. Caetano.
16:04:34 I would like to remind my colleagues to please take it
16:04:36 easy.
16:04:36 We are going to go till 6:00.
16:04:40 The restaurant business is very different, very
16:04:43 unique.
16:04:43 I used to be in it and I lost all my money.
16:04:46 But what happens is this.
16:04:48 Every restaurant has a right to stay open to the last
16:04:52 part of the liquor.
16:04:53 It used to be.
16:04:54 I don't know about now.

16:04:55 When I was in the restaurant business, we close at
16:04:59 10:00 at night, including Friday and Saturday.
16:05:01 We didn't open on Sundays.
16:05:02 So what happens is, if we have 40 people outside to
16:05:06 get in, you are going stay open till eleven because
16:05:08 the people want to eat.
16:05:09 And they are not going to come back.
16:05:11 So you try to be applicable to everybody.
16:05:14 But guess what.
16:05:15 And you all know the restaurant business.
16:05:17 It's at 9:00, there's no sense, and nobody is in the
16:05:21 restaurant, you are not going to let that clock keep
16:05:23 running up the meter on the cost of payroll.
16:05:27 You are going to close the restaurant at 9:00 even
16:05:29 though it says 10:00.
16:05:30 So these things are based on the availability of your
16:05:32 customers.
16:05:33 If you have a big customer base and they come in, you
16:05:35 are going to be staying to the limit of whatever your
16:05:38 time.
16:05:39 That's right, different restaurants have different
16:05:41 times.

16:05:41 I guarantee you, I don't know much about this corner
16:05:43 but I guarantee you that strings and wings and all
16:05:47 those have different times.
16:05:49 And I don't know that to be true.
16:05:53 I'm just taking a guess.
16:05:54 Because I didn't do those zonings.
16:05:56 Maybe I did TJ Chois.
16:05:59 But all those have different times because they are
16:06:02 for different type of operation.
16:06:03 And maybe they all have the same time.
16:06:07 I don't know. But like Mr. Caetano, I'm ready to move
16:06:11 on.
16:06:14 >> Move to close.
16:06:18 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Second my motion?
16:06:20 (Motion carried).
16:06:20 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I would like to move to approve
16:06:24 this with the conditions that Mr. Michelini so
16:06:26 graciously agreed to.
16:06:28 These are the hours that he suggested --
16:06:32 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I made a motion and Charlie
16:06:34 seconded it.
16:06:35 We have a motion.

16:06:37 >> The motion to close.
16:06:40 I'm making a motion to approve.
16:06:42 My motion to approve is based upon two simple
16:06:45 conditions.
16:06:45 The first condition is hours of operation, as Mr.
16:06:48 Michelini and his client agreed upon, which is Sunday
16:06:50 to Wednesday 11 p.m, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, 1
16:06:56 a.m.
16:06:58 And then, secondly, all of this liquor that they'll be
16:07:03 serving in conjunction with the restaurant will only
16:07:05 be served in glass containers which also they
16:07:08 graciously agreed to.
16:07:14 The difference -- I just need to say one thing.
16:07:16 Ms. Mulhern, the difference between this and approving
16:07:20 a wet zoning in Ybor or approving a wet zoning in
16:07:23 International Plaza is that these abut up against
16:07:28 neighborhoods, including your neighborhood.
16:07:30 Parkland Estates came out big time on one of the
16:07:33 projects, Mr. Michelini, and one of the things they
16:07:38 fought for tooth and nail was hours of operation.
16:07:42 It's extremely important to the neighborhoods to
16:07:43 address hours of operation.

16:07:44 We should have done it when we realized ten years ago
16:07:47 that Soho, that that was going to be an entertainment
16:07:50 district and we have should have had a blanket hours
16:07:53 ever operation and the neighborhood would have had
16:07:54 less impact.
16:07:55 So now we are doing it piecemeal.
16:07:57 I think it's completely appropriate, because these
16:07:59 folks are good with it.
16:08:00 They can get their approval.
16:08:02 They can get out of here and move on.
16:08:03 My motion is to approve with those conditions.
16:08:05 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm just going to ask my colleagues to
16:08:11 vote no and I'll make a substitute motion to approve
16:08:13 this wet zoning so we stop doing this piecemeal and we
16:08:16 start to be reasonable and allow these businesses to
16:08:19 function, and actually make -- no, they don't want to
16:08:23 be open 24/7.
16:08:27 >> Make your motion.
16:08:32 >> Did you second?
16:08:34 We have a motion and second for approval of those
16:08:36 conditions that Mr. Dingfelder put in there.
16:08:40 We have a question on the motion, Mrs. Saul-Sena?

16:08:43 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you, yes.
16:08:44 I'm extremely sensitive with overburdening the
16:08:49 neighborhood with too much stuff and I think one of
16:08:51 the way that is council can protect neighborhoods is
16:08:53 through conditional uses and see how it goes for a
16:08:56 year, from limiting hours ever operation, and for
16:09:00 insisting that there be enough parking.
16:09:02 My concern with this proposal is that it's going to be
16:09:05 tremendously successful, because Casa Mia has great
16:09:10 food, and my concern, seriously, is this is not going
16:09:15 to have enough parking.
16:09:18 And --
16:09:21 >>> that's not the issue and this is my neighborhood.
16:09:23 We need to address all of those problems and all of us
16:09:25 here -- we were all in a meeting together, right, Mr.
16:09:29 Crumbley, and Mr. Michelini and Mr. Dingfelder and I
16:09:32 were all there trying to solve these transportation
16:09:33 problems and nothing got done.
16:09:35 We need to fix our code.
16:09:38 We need to make it possible to do that instead of
16:09:42 continuing to do every single -- spend hours here on
16:09:47 every single wet zoning.

16:09:49 And these people know how to run their business and it
16:09:52 sounds like it's a reasonable restaurant business, and
16:09:54 they have got a lot -- they have even got extra park.
16:09:57 Okay.
16:09:59 >>GWEN MILLER: Call for the vote.
16:10:01 All in favor of approving with a condition that Mr.
16:10:05 Dingfelder has, say Aye.
16:10:07 Cat cattle I wanted to talk on that motion, please.
16:10:11 >>GWEN MILLER: Go ahead.
16:10:12 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: With all the germs that are out
16:10:16 here today some people don't want to drink out of the
16:10:18 glass.
16:10:19 That's the truth.
16:10:20 If you heard the news today you know how much staph
16:10:22 infection is going around this country?
16:10:24 There's three young children that just died recently,
16:10:27 school children, eleven, 17-year-old, and none of them
16:10:31 live near each other.
16:10:32 There are people who don't want to drink out of a
16:10:34 glass.
16:10:35 They would rather have a plastic cup.
16:10:38 I don't think we should restrict anybody in what they

16:10:41 can serve their product in.
16:10:43 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of Mr. Dingfelder's motion
16:10:46 say Aye.
16:10:47 Opposed, Nay.
16:10:47 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Hand vote.
16:10:51 >>CHAIRMAN: All in favor raise your hand.
16:10:53 Oppose, Nay.
16:10:55 >> Miller, Scott, Mulhern voting no.
16:11:00 >>MARY MULHERN: I move to approve the wet zoning.
16:11:11 >> Do you want to read the ordinance then?
16:11:18 Read 140.
16:11:19 Read 140.
16:11:25 >> It's approving of wet zoning based on staff
16:11:29 recommendation.
16:11:34 >> I move an ordinance being presented for first
16:11:36 reading consideration, an ordinance making lawful the
16:11:38 sale of beverages containing alcohol regardless of
16:11:41 alcoholic content, beer, wine and liquor, 4(COP-R),
16:11:44 for consumption on the premises only in connection
16:11:46 with a restaurant business establishment at or from
16:11:49 that certain lot, plot or tract of land located at
16:11:52 2221 West Platt street, Tampa, Florida, as more

16:11:56 particularly described in section 2 hereof, waiving
16:11:59 certain restrictions as to distance based upon certain
16:12:02 findings, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
16:12:04 conflict, providing an effective date.
16:12:07 >>GWEN MILLER: I have a motion and second.
16:12:08 Question on the motion, Ms. Saul-Sena.
16:12:10 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Thank you.
16:12:11 You all, it's 4:00.
16:12:13 There might have been people from this neighborhood
16:12:14 who were interested in speaking but they couldn't
16:12:16 devote their entire day to this, like Mr. Crumbley is
16:12:23 devoting his entire day.
16:12:24 I don't think we are protecting the neighborhood
16:12:26 enough.
16:12:26 And I hope that people from the neighborhood contact
16:12:29 council members before second reading to encourage us
16:12:31 to have a more restrictive zoning.
16:12:34 I think that this is not a healthy thing for the
16:12:37 neighborhood.
16:12:37 >>GWEN MILLER: And.
16:12:40 >> And I hope the neighborhood realizes, I am
16:12:43 sympathetic.

16:12:44 I think Mr. Crumbley knows.
16:12:46 I just don't think that this kind of piecemeal zoning
16:12:49 is a solution to what the bigger problems are.
16:12:53 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Madam Chair.
16:12:55 Not every street in the City of Tampa is 25 miles an
16:12:57 hour.
16:12:58 Not every highway is 55 miles an hour.
16:13:00 Or 65 miles an hour.
16:13:01 There's a reason why.
16:13:03 Alcoholic zonings and restaurants, everything has
16:13:06 their place and a time duly qualified for.
16:13:10 The neighborhood, if this is the wishes of this
16:13:13 council, going forward, this will have no waivers, if
16:13:15 I recall.
16:13:16 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: No.
16:13:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: None.
16:13:20 Those with waivers are going to come in and ask for
16:13:23 the same thing and are going to be able to step forth
16:13:26 and say you gave to the somebody else, you are going
16:13:28 to give it to me.
16:13:29 And I'm afraid that what I know about this
16:13:32 neighborhood, and there was some confusion with the

16:13:34 neighborhood as to who represented the neighborhood
16:13:36 between Mr. Dingfelder and myself and the district,
16:13:39 that is, and right down the middle of a street, that I
16:13:43 know we met with different people at different times,
16:13:45 but not together.
16:13:46 So what I'm saying is this neighborhood needs
16:13:48 protection, but transportation, traffic, they can't
16:13:56 park in their own yards.
16:13:57 It's dreadful to say that they have a football game
16:14:01 every Thursday, Friday, Saturday, in their own
16:14:04 neighborhood, that you can't get a parking.
16:14:05 And that's almost -- I have nothing against the
16:14:07 petitioner or the people who -- I think they run a
16:14:10 first-class operation.
16:14:11 And I would support it with a restriction.
16:14:14 I am not going to support it without the restrictions.
16:14:16 >>GWEN MILLER: We have a motion and second.
16:14:19 All in favor say Aye.
16:14:20 Opposed, Nay.
16:14:20 >> Miranda, Dingfelder voting no.
16:14:28 November 1st at 9:30 second reading.
16:14:31 >>GWEN MILLER: Item 141, continued public hearing.

16:14:36 >>CATHERINE COYLE: Land development.
16:14:38 Case WZ 07-120 is continued from a couple weeks back.
16:14:43 This was a request for Busch Gardens.
16:14:49 Adventure island.
16:14:50 Based on the discussion that occurred at the last
16:14:52 hearing, the petitioner and legal department and
16:14:55 myself have worked through various conditions based on
16:14:58 the testimony and some of the conversation that
16:15:00 occurred.
16:15:02 We'll go through the detail of what the conditions
16:15:04 are.
16:15:05 The conditions really were to try to nail down exactly
16:15:08 some of those issues that were raised.
16:15:10 Staff doesn't have any objections to the original
16:15:12 request.
16:15:13 And with these additional conditions we still have no
16:15:16 objections to the request.
16:15:23 >>CHAIRMAN: Petitioner?
16:15:25 >>> Thank you.
16:15:31 Grace Yang, 201 North Franklin Street, suite 2200
16:15:35 Tampa.
16:15:37 I have been sworn and I am the agent for the

16:15:39 petitioner.
16:15:39 I appreciate very much the opportunity to come before
16:15:41 you all again today to present what I hope is a new
16:15:46 and improved ordinance for your consideration.
16:15:49 As Ms. Coyle mentioned, over the course of the last 30
16:15:52 days, since the September 20th hearing, we have
16:15:55 been working very hard to try to circle back with the
16:15:59 city attorney's office, with Ms. Coyle's office, with
16:16:02 the police department, with the neighborhood
16:16:05 association, effective, as well as other interested
16:16:09 parties like the Tampa alcohol coalition, to try to
16:16:12 address the additional concerns.
16:16:15 I am hoping that these additional self-imposed
16:16:18 conditions are more to your liking, and I will be
16:16:23 happy to go through them right now.
16:16:26 Do you all have a copy of the ordinance before you
16:16:28 now?
16:16:28 Okay.
16:16:31 The second conditions start on page 3 of the draft
16:16:36 ordinance, in section 6.
16:16:47 Paragraph A, addresses again that our petition request
16:16:52 is for a 4(COP) zoning use but it will only be

16:16:55 permitted in conjunction with the place of assembly of
16:16:59 being park or amusement park.
16:17:03 So the wet zoning will have to be tied to a theme park
16:17:06 or an amusement park use such as Busch Gardens or
16:17:09 adventure island.
16:17:11 In B, the condition is that malt beverages, and wines,
16:17:20 may be sold, served, dispensed or consumed on the
16:17:25 Busch Gardens property.
16:17:28 We carve out the two buildings that are already
16:17:30 currently wet zoned.
16:17:32 Those being, one, the Crown Colony House, that is
16:17:36 currently zoned 4(COP-R), along with the desert grill
16:17:41 restaurant, which is also zoned 4(COP-R).
16:17:48 The 4(COP) at Busch Gardens, number one would be
16:17:51 limited to the Crown Colony House and the desert I'll
16:17:56 restaurant as they are currently, and the additional
16:17:58 restriction is on paragraph 3, which is 4(COP)s
16:18:05 would only come in to play at Busch Gardens in the
16:18:07 event that there is a special event occurring at the
16:18:11 property.
16:18:12 And we'll go into a later description about how that's
16:18:16 defined.

16:18:16 The petition also covers adventure island, in
16:18:21 paragraph C of the draft ordinance, and the proposal
16:18:23 is that at adventure island it will only be a beer and
16:18:27 wine use at adventure island except in situations when
16:18:31 the park is hosting a special event.
16:18:37 If you look at paragraph D here is how we are trying
16:18:39 to define the special event.
16:18:41 Special event must be scheduled, it must be planned in
16:18:44 advance.
16:18:46 This may occur on a single day, or it could be
16:18:50 multiple days, not necessarily consecutively.
16:18:53 You might have an event that occurs this Saturday, and
16:18:56 also occurs next Saturday, for example.
16:19:00 A permitted special use would cover various
16:19:03 categories.
16:19:05 3-A being a government, a corporate or convention
16:19:09 group meeting, or an event that is only accessible to
16:19:13 event guests only.
16:19:16 The events not be open to the general public.
16:19:18 In 3-B, a special event would include a fund-raising
16:19:22 event that benefits a bona fide nonprofit civic
16:19:26 fraternal, religious, charitable, or government

16:19:30 organization.
16:19:30 Again, only accessible to the event guests.
16:19:35 In C, a performing arts or cultural events.
16:19:40 For example, if you have a professional band or sing
16:19:43 we are a limited engagement invited into the park.
16:19:47 Now, these would be events such as, if any of you are
16:19:51 familiar with the musica, Hispanic and Latin festival
16:19:56 event, these would be technically open to the park
16:20:00 visitor, you would have ability to participate in the
16:20:03 music festival or the performing arts festival if you
16:20:06 have a pass to enter the park.
16:20:08 However, in order to try to allay any concerns that
16:20:13 you might have an accessible or event running every
16:20:16 single day of the year we are agreeing to a cap that
16:20:19 there not be more than 100 days in a calendar year
16:20:22 when you would have a performing arts or cultural
16:20:24 event.
16:20:25 And everyone I think that would be rather high.
16:20:27 I don't ever foresee them getting up that high.
16:20:30 But we are agreeing to cap it at 100 events per
16:20:33 calendar year.
16:20:35 100 days.

16:20:37 And then in paragraph D you will see that we have
16:20:39 described receptions that are accessible to invited
16:20:43 guests only.
16:20:44 These are to try to accommodate instances when a
16:20:46 family might want to hold a 50th wedding
16:20:50 anniversary party in part of the park, or somebody is
16:20:54 celebrating a 65th birthday, somewhere in the
16:20:57 park, and they want to invite people there and treat
16:21:00 guests.
16:21:03 >> At that age, do they drink?
16:21:05 >> At 65? I like toasts, a champagne toast.
16:21:15 Maybe we'll save that for after the rollercoaster
16:21:18 ride.
16:21:19 In paragraph E, we have imposed a condition that the
16:21:23 alcohol sales, service and consumption will only be
16:21:26 permitted in public areas that are accessible to all
16:21:29 of the park visitors.
16:21:33 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Excuse me, I'm a little unclear on
16:21:35 that.
16:21:35 It seems to be oxymoronic because all the other things
16:21:40 are more restrictive and this says it will only be
16:21:42 permitted in public areas accessible to all park

16:21:45 visitors.
16:21:48 That's like open ended.
16:21:49 Did you mean not be?
16:21:51 Or do you mean what you have written here?
16:21:53 >>> Well, what we are trying -- I guess the intention
16:21:58 when we were trying to draft this is to say that
16:22:03 alcohol, in the event of a special event or in the
16:22:05 event of any kind of an event, that the alcohol would
16:22:08 only be -- you can only consume the alcohol in areas
16:22:12 of the park that are normally accessible to guests to
16:22:16 the park visitors.
16:22:17 So you could have somebody who buys part of Egypt, for
16:22:23 example, for a nighttime park event after hours so
16:22:27 that might be used during a special event.
16:22:29 What we were trying to address about is if you are in
16:22:33 the Safari area in the park or if you were in the
16:22:38 areas where the animals are normally stored and
16:22:42 contained, that you wouldn't be consuming and selling
16:22:46 the alcohol in those areas of the park.
16:22:53 So the special events would likely -- the special
16:22:56 events might be in different parts of the park.
16:22:58 You might have a buyout in one area of the park, and

16:23:02 then the next day another convention group might want
16:23:05 to buy out a different area of the park.
16:23:08 But the hope is that we are asking if council would
16:23:11 allow people to be able to consume the alcohol in the
16:23:16 various areas of the park so that they could walk
16:23:18 around with a cup of beer, for example, and be able to
16:23:22 drink it as they go, as they are traveling from
16:23:24 attraction to attraction.
16:23:27 But for a full liquor use, it would need to be -- it
16:23:30 would need to be restricted to a special event.
16:23:37 As defined in paragraph D.
16:23:43 In F, we are trying to -- in F and G we are trying to
16:23:47 be sensitive to the neighborhood area and to
16:23:52 self-impose restrictions on the property.
16:23:56 We are proposing that there will be no hard liquor
16:23:59 sold after 11 p.m. seven days a week, in the events
16:24:03 where you have a special event, or activity that runs
16:24:06 that way.
16:24:07 The parks usually close earlier.
16:24:09 But in the event that the parks are open that late,
16:24:12 the liquor would stop at 11 p.m.
16:24:18 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: You said hard liquor.

16:24:19 But the sales of all liquor.
16:24:23 Which is it, hard liquor all liquor?
16:24:25 >>> Hard liquor we mean distilled spirits as used in
16:24:32 chapter 3 and chapter 27.
16:24:36 >> It says sales of all liquor shall cease at 11
16:24:39 o'clock p.m. seven days a week.
16:24:41 >>> Yes.
16:24:42 Meaning distilled spirits.
16:24:43 >> So you are only talking about hard liquor.
16:24:44 >>> Yes, sir.
16:24:45 >> Not beer and wine.
16:24:46 >>> Yes.
16:24:49 In C and G we are proposing that the malt beverages
16:24:54 and the wine would stop at 1 a.m. seven days a week.
16:24:57 >> May I continue questioning, Madam Chair?
16:24:59 How many of these events do you have now that go to
16:25:02 1:00 in the morning?
16:25:03 >>> I'm not really sure, sir.
16:25:05 I can try to see if this is an answer to that.
16:25:12 Your question is how many special events?
16:25:14 >>> Yes.
16:25:19 Since so many things are variable grease that you are

16:25:21 asking for --
16:25:24 >>> Dean brown, general manager of Busch Gardens, I
16:25:26 have been sworn in.
16:25:27 Currently we have one event that goes past midnight
16:25:29 and that's our Halloween event that happens this month
16:25:31 and there's only 16 operating days.
16:25:33 So right now there's one event that goes.
16:25:37 The park normally closes at ten in the summer, 8:00
16:25:40 and 6:00.
16:25:41 So we are fairly early operating hours.
16:25:42 >> So then by your own admission if the park was to
16:25:46 close at a certain hour you are not going to leave it
16:25:48 open just to sell alcohol to one unless you have a
16:25:50 special event.
16:25:50 >>> That's correct.
16:25:51 >> Okay, thank you.
16:25:57 >>> Grace Yang: So I those are the additional hours
16:26:00 ever sale that we are going to self-impose on
16:26:02 ourselves.
16:26:03 Yes.
16:26:04 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I really appreciate the fact that
16:26:06 you have come back with more restricted language.

16:26:09 This is way was looking for.
16:26:10 And you defined spaces, hours, events.
16:26:16 I feel much more comfortable with it.
16:26:17 >>> Thank you, Ms. Saul-Sena.
16:26:19 We took your comments to heart as well as all the
16:26:21 other comments that we heard on September 20th.
16:26:23 So we really did try to think and come up with
16:26:27 proposals that would hopefully be better for everybody
16:26:30 concerned.
16:26:33 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Are you going to be serving this
16:26:34 liquor in glasses or plastic?
16:26:38 >>> As you are aware, Busch Gardens has an enormous
16:26:44 amount invested in all the animals at the park, and
16:26:46 the safety is to humans is very important but Busch
16:26:50 Gardens is also very much protective of all the
16:26:53 animals at the park as well.
16:26:55 So they will not be doing anything to endanger the
16:26:58 animals there.
16:26:59 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: In all fairness, animals -- I
16:27:07 certainly don't want to debate our esteemed council
16:27:10 member better known as Mr. Caetano.
16:27:13 Glass has very little molecules where bacterias can

16:27:17 get in, cups and plastic have much more.
16:27:22 >>CHAIRMAN: Let me see if there's anyone in the public
16:27:24 that wants to speak on item 141.
16:27:27 Anyone want to speak on 141?
16:27:44 >>> Good afternoon.
16:27:51 Yes, it's still afternoon.
16:27:52 My name is Richard Flamica, I live at the Temple Crest
16:27:59 neighborhood of Mid Tampa.
16:28:00 I have been sworn.
16:28:00 On Monday the 8th of this month Mr. Dan brown
16:28:03 Busch Gardens general manager met with some neighbors,
16:28:06 some of his neighbors at the Temple Crest civic
16:28:09 association meeting.
16:28:09 Mr. Brown explained the wet zoning permit Busch
16:28:12 Gardens is seeking stating that it's primarily for
16:28:15 night functions of corporate outings of mainly adults.
16:28:18 The beverages covered by this wet zoning permit if
16:28:20 granted are to be served from tents or other kinds of
16:28:24 serving stations scattered throughout Busch Gardens
16:28:27 and adventure island parks.
16:28:29 Parking lots are going to be excluded.
16:28:34 Mr. Brown stated, it will include things we will not

16:28:37 do.
16:28:39 Have you seen the list?
16:28:40 Yes, you have.
16:28:44 The Temple Crest, this Temple Crest neighbor only
16:28:47 obtained a copy of the ordinance yesterday afternoon.
16:28:50 In my opinion it is interesting to note what it does
16:28:53 not limit.
16:28:54 None of the limitations that was suggested at the
16:28:56 meeting that Mr. Brown attended with his neighbors was
16:29:00 suggested an 11 p.m. termination for all such special
16:29:04 events.
16:29:04 Mr. Brown said it would be considered.
16:29:07 However, the only self-imposed limitation in the
16:29:09 ordinance I see is cessation it liquor sales at
16:29:13 11 p.m. and the termination of malt beverages and wine
16:29:17 sales at 1 a.m
16:29:21 There are a few facts to consider.
16:29:22 If I could, if I could actuate this here.
16:29:27 This photo shows some 13, 1,000-foot arcs, government
16:29:36 buildings, and an existing site of liquor sale.
16:29:39 I guess this means you are going to have to grant at
16:29:41 least 13 waivers to have this ordinance passed.

16:29:47 This photo shows the Busch Gardens and adventure
16:29:58 island sites included in this wet zoning request.
16:30:01 The first gardens site alone is approximately 3,000
16:30:04 feet by 4,000 feet, or about 12 million square feet in
16:30:12 size excluding the parking lot.
16:30:21 If a permanent request of this size were asked for
16:30:26 downtown, this is the equivalent area it would cover.
16:30:31 The center of this site here is City Hall and this is
16:30:38 exactly the same footprint as the Busch Gardens site I
16:30:41 just showed you.
16:30:43 Would you be willing to grant a 4(COP) permit in this
16:30:47 area?
16:30:47 I certainly would hope not.
16:30:50 Please do not do it for Busch Gardens either, for this
16:30:53 permanent wet zoning or for any future temporary wet
16:30:56 zonings.
16:30:57 Instead I offer an alternative.
16:31:01 Using readily available global positioning technology,
16:31:06 let Busch Gardens identify the sites where they would
16:31:09 like to use the tents or other serving stations for
16:31:11 their special events.
16:31:12 Identify the locations with GPS receivers, and then

16:31:15 permit ten or twenty foot circles around each site
16:31:21 where the sales may take place.
16:31:22 >>GWEN MILLER: Thank you.
16:31:23 (Bell sounds).
16:31:26 >>> This would eliminate, reduce the footprint
16:31:29 tremendously.
16:31:29 Thank you.
16:31:29 >>GWEN MILLER: Next speaker.
16:31:37 >>> My name is John Dausman, a Temple Crest resident
16:31:41 and I have not been sworn in but I'm sure that city
16:31:43 clerk would be glad to do that.
16:31:46 (Oath administered by Clerk).
16:31:58 >> I would like to thank and acknowledge Busch Gardens
16:32:01 for coming and meeting with the neighborhood.
16:32:02 I do think it's important.
16:32:03 They did not ask to come, after several weeks of
16:32:07 silence, we invited them and then they agreed to come.
16:32:10 But they did stay and they did participate for the
16:32:13 length of our meeting and it does appear to have had
16:32:15 some results.
16:32:17 I would like to pose that this is making progress but
16:32:22 we are not there yet for very specific reasons.

16:32:26 The biggest one is in that same section that Mrs. Yang
16:32:33 went through in detail in section 6, item D-3, says
16:32:36 permitted special events include -- and here are the
16:32:41 most important words in this whole document -- but are
16:32:44 not limited to.
16:32:46 If you approve this document Busch Gardens gets to
16:32:50 decide at its will what special events are.
16:32:54 And I thought the purpose of an ordinance was for you
16:32:57 to decide, and then if it's successful after a period
16:33:01 of time, and they need to change it, they can come
16:33:04 back and amend it.
16:33:06 I would suggest that this language is not ready yet,
16:33:10 because it's too open ended.
16:33:13 But we are getting there.
16:33:16 I also am concerned about paragraph C above it.
16:33:23 Wide open beer and wine sales to the public in
16:33:28 adventure island.
16:33:29 We expressed in our first appearance that in a water
16:33:32 park with an emphasis on children and young adults, it
16:33:35 just seems unwise to be that wide open, regardless of
16:33:41 whether hard liquor is restricted to the special
16:33:44 events.

16:33:45 I believe that is an unwise, too liberal a language,
16:33:49 and should be thoroughly considered by both the city
16:33:52 administration and this council.
16:33:57 I'm also concerned about the 100 events a year for
16:34:01 concerts and the impact on noise.
16:34:07 Yes, Busch Gardens can say, well, we have behaved
16:34:09 responsibly till now.
16:34:12 But Busch Gardens is changing.
16:34:14 And the most evident part of it is howl-o-scream this
16:34:23 year.
16:34:24 I don't know how many of you caught the publicity
16:34:26 about a week ago launching it but their own staff were
16:34:29 quoted live saying, this is not a family event.
16:34:34 It is changing its emphasis to adults.
16:34:38 It is not the same Busch Gardens for some of these
16:34:41 events.
16:34:42 And therefore I think you should be cautious about the
16:34:45 real meaning embedded in this language.
16:34:50 So I would suggest some thought and consideration of
16:34:54 the points that I have raised, but not give up.
16:34:57 I don't think it's the end.
16:35:00 I think there's movement.

16:35:01 I want to thank Busch Gardens for that movement.
16:35:07 One day, 2 p.m., 2:30 yesterday afternoon until this
16:35:10 morning was not enough time.
16:35:12 I don't know when you got your copy, to really
16:35:14 understand what the language says here.
16:35:17 (Bell sounds).
16:35:19 Thank you for listening.
16:35:47 >>> Terry Neal, Temple Crest civic association
16:35:50 president.
16:35:50 I'm glad my name doesn't begin with a Z.
16:35:52 I want to thank Busch Gardens for coming to a meeting.
16:35:56 However you heard Mrs. Yang list a bunch of meetings
16:35:59 she said the staff at Busch Gardens participated in.
16:36:02 We did not participate in those and I really we had a
16:36:04 chance to do that, because we didn't get the ordinance
16:36:08 until yesterday afternoon.
16:36:10 We did raise a lot of issues at our civic association
16:36:14 meeting and the only one that I see addressed is the
16:36:16 11 p.m. ceasing of sales of alcohol.
16:36:22 So since I didn't have the ordinance, I have to leave
16:36:25 a message, and I have to bring you some of the
16:36:27 concerns that the neighborhood had, and Ms. Mulhern --

16:36:33 and it's fine with me if we want to go with a little
16:36:35 interpretation of code, but, quite frankly, the Busch
16:36:39 Gardens request, just as a 4 C.O.P., they require
16:36:48 aware of practically everything that a 4(COP)
16:36:50 requires, waiver of residential, waiver of government
16:36:52 buildings,.
16:36:55 I don't like all these revisions and suggestions that
16:36:58 we are having to deal with.
16:36:59 I will say like John said, we are getting there.
16:37:03 But there are some places that I see some problems
16:37:06 with.
16:37:07 First of all, multiple events can occur on those 100
16:37:11 days.
16:37:12 Just because it's 100 days you can have multiple
16:37:15 events.
16:37:16 And I want to know what a howl-o-scream is, not a
16:37:20 cultural event.
16:37:21 It's one of those "other" events.
16:37:23 You see, they can define other events.
16:37:26 That's 30 days.
16:37:27 Now we have 130 days.
16:37:30 Just looking at those petitions, I want to remind you

16:37:33 of your own municipal code that you created for Ybor
16:37:38 City, Channelside and the downtown area, section
16:37:41 3-30 -- I'm sorry, 3-29.1, which puts restrictions on
16:37:48 those areas for wet zonings in regards to noise and
16:37:52 security.
16:37:53 And we are still having problems with Ybor City.
16:37:56 I have neighbors right now who are telling me to come
16:37:59 to you and say that at night -- well, they get used to
16:38:02 the noise during the day.
16:38:03 But at night, it's like having Gasparilla parade every
16:38:07 night.
16:38:09 We are approaching a situation, as I told you this was
16:38:12 the only night event, we are approaching a situation
16:38:15 where you are going to have to be dealing with a Ford
16:38:19 amphitheater complaint.
16:38:21 And I hate to say it, that could possibly require EPC
16:38:26 to start come out and measuring decibels, and, God
16:38:30 forbid, litigation.
16:38:32 The other things I want to keep that in mind, that
16:38:34 Ybor City code, if you would, please, we don't approve
16:38:37 of the blanket waivers, the traffic can be a really
16:38:41 big issue, the park hours.

16:38:43 I can't go through all these because I am going to run
16:38:45 out of time.
16:38:47 I go along with some of the issues about we should
16:38:48 have different zoning within the park, we should not
16:38:51 waive the residential thing.
16:38:53 And I also, for some more language about what happens
16:38:57 if the property is sold, and I'm also asking for
16:39:01 probationary period.
16:39:02 And to get the neighborhood involved.
16:39:05 If there's one thing I want more than anything, and it
16:39:07 seems like when we come and complain that we don't
16:39:10 want -- there's one thing I want more than anything
16:39:13 it's to have a good relationship with Busch Gardens.
16:39:16 We really don't have that now:
16:39:19 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you.
16:39:21 I would like to ask petition area few questions,
16:39:23 please.
16:39:28 Busch Gardens is somewhat unique.
16:39:30 I know I have heard mentioned Ybor City and other
16:39:35 areas.
16:39:35 Is there any charge to enter Ybor City?
16:39:40 >>> Is there any charge --

16:39:42 >> Charge to enter Ybor City?
16:39:43 No.
16:39:49 >> Charge to enter Busch Gardens.
16:39:51 >>> Yes, sir.
16:39:51 >> Can you tell me the ballpark?
16:39:53 You don't have to tell me.
16:39:54 50, $60?
16:39:56 >> For a daily admission?
16:39:58 >> Yes, ma'am.
16:39:58 >>> Probably about $60, I think.
16:40:02 >> So what I'm saying is, I like to negotiate in the
16:40:09 middle and I'm not there.
16:40:11 Do you sell package in Busch Gardens or could you sell
16:40:14 package of this operation if you had this zoning?
16:40:16 >>> Right now, no.
16:40:17 Right now, there is no -- there are no package sales
16:40:20 at all at Busch Gardens.
16:40:22 >> What happens if this zoning passes?
16:40:24 >>> If the zoning passes, the 4(COP) use during the
16:40:28 special event would allow a package sale during the
16:40:34 special events.
16:40:35 Those might include, for example --

16:40:37 >> I'm concerned with packaging because it goes out of
16:40:39 the park.
16:40:42 The rest stays in the park.
16:40:45 Would you be willing to give up package sales?
16:40:47 >>> Yes, sir.
16:40:48 We would be willing to give up the package sales.
16:40:52 If that is --
16:40:55 >> What I'm thinking about in my mind, council
16:40:57 members, is this.
16:40:58 I don't know if the police have a direct finding of
16:41:02 fact of how many alcohol related crowd Busch Gardens
16:41:07 has since it's existence.
16:41:10 I can tell you that today I spoke earlier about
16:41:12 private enterprise and government everything the same
16:41:14 restrictions.
16:41:15 Guess what.
16:41:18 Lowry Park on the board, very proud of what they are
16:41:21 doing, they are running an operation second to none.
16:41:23 I guess it's the best zoo of its size in the country.
16:41:27 They also have a 4(COP-X).
16:41:30 >>> Yes.
16:41:30 >> And that's government.

16:41:33 So what I'm saying is that I'm caught somewhere in the
16:41:37 middle here between government having it and private
16:41:42 enterprise not having it presently.
16:41:47 So I would like to ask, does anyone in the police
16:41:49 department have any numbers for us, or -- I don't
16:41:53 know.
16:41:53 Maybe that's the wrong question.
16:42:01 >>> Officer Miller: You want to know the total
16:42:04 incidences at the beginning of the park?
16:42:08 I went to '04 when I did the original search and the
16:42:11 majority of the calls were more the domestic issues,
16:42:16 the heat, the lines, domestic issues.
16:42:21 Of those there were like 52 in three years.
16:42:23 And of those, I saw about ten that were related to
16:42:26 alcohol.
16:42:30 That was just a three-year span.
16:42:32 So that wasn't bad, considering the volume of people
16:42:35 per year that visit that park.
16:42:45 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thanks very much.
16:42:46 >>GWEN MILLER: Other questions by council members?
16:42:49 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: A question for our legal
16:42:50 department.

16:42:50 And that is the language, but not limited to, in
16:42:57 section 6-D-3.
16:43:01 That strikes me as a loop hole.
16:43:09 >>> I understand your concern.
16:43:10 You might want to ask the applicant if they would be
16:43:13 willing to strike that language.
16:43:16 >> The phrase "but not limited to" we will agree to
16:43:21 take that out.
16:43:24 To specify more tightly for you special events.
16:43:28 >> It was section 6, D, 3, list add number of specific
16:43:32 things and then it said but not limited to.
16:43:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Page 4.
16:43:40 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Petitioner's representative just
16:43:42 said they would be willing to strike that language
16:43:44 which I really appreciate.
16:43:45 You gave us a good laundry list of different things
16:43:47 and it seems pretty inclusive and if there were, you
16:43:50 know, a problem with something, you have the power to
16:43:54 come back and say, oh, we forgot to ask.
16:43:57 >>> Yes.
16:43:59 I am fine with striking that phrase, from the proposed
16:44:02 ordinance right now.

16:44:03 Also just to make a correction on the record.
16:44:05 I think there was a comment before that adventure
16:44:07 island was not currently zoned for the whole park to
16:44:12 sell beer and wine and I want to make it clear that
16:44:15 adventure island has been zoned 2(COP-X) since 1991.
16:44:20 So the entire park of adventure island has been zoned
16:44:23 2(COP-X), beer and wine, for consumption on premises.
16:44:28 That's 16 years now.
16:44:29 And it's had a marvelous track record and they have
16:44:33 had a wonderful, wonderful ability to be a responsible
16:44:37 alcohol vendor.
16:44:44 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Mr. Miranda, you asked that
16:44:45 package sales not be sold to go out.
16:44:48 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I believe petitioner agreed to
16:44:50 that.
16:44:51 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Where was that?
16:44:52 Did you have that in here?
16:44:57 >> In 6-A, page 3, it says sealed containers for
16:45:02 consumption off premises.
16:45:03 So this would go to, what --
16:45:06 >>> a 4(COP), would convert to 4(COP-X).
16:45:10 A 4(COP-X) which would eliminate the package sales.

16:45:17 >>GWEN MILLER: Anything else?
16:45:18 Mr. Dingfelder?
16:45:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Just a question to legal so we
16:45:23 can --
16:45:24 >>GWEN MILLER: Wrap this up?
16:45:27 >> Perhaps be done with this and not have to come back
16:45:29 at second reading.
16:45:32 To bring --
16:45:36 >>REBECCA KERT: I would be happy to bring it.
16:45:39 You have an appeal hearing.
16:45:43 >>GWEN MILLER: Ms. Mulhern?
16:45:45 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a question.
16:45:47 I don't know what Ms. Saul-Sena asked for.
16:45:53 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I think your Mike is off.
16:45:57 >> Definition of a special event under D.
16:45:59 How could we possibly comply with a special event that
16:46:03 is scheduled and planned in advance?
16:46:06 We would have to track everything that they are doing.
16:46:09 >>REBECCA KERT: Usually for everything, if a problem
16:46:15 comes up then we would see and they would have to
16:46:18 demonstrate in fact it was planned.
16:46:19 But with the language that was struck in D-3, it not

16:46:23 only had to be scheduled, it has to be one of the
16:46:26 listed special events.
16:46:28 So they have narrowed it down to only those, A, B, C,
16:46:37 D category.
16:46:41 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Which are pretty comprehensive.
16:46:45 >>GWEN MILLER: Do you want us to hold this, Ms. Kert?
16:46:48 Or do we vote or what?
16:46:50 >>REBECCA KERT: If there is a motion to make the
16:46:52 changes I could bring them back down.
16:46:57 >>CHAIRMAN: We need to close the public hearing.
16:46:59 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: So moved.
16:47:01 >> Second.
16:47:02 (Motion carried).
16:47:03 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I would like to ask that legal make
16:47:07 the corrections or clarifications that we have asked
16:47:11 and bring it back to us.
16:47:15 >>MARY MULHERN: Did we close the public hearing?
16:47:18 >>CHAIRMAN: Yes.
16:47:19 >>MARY MULHERN: We can't ask the neighborhood if they
16:47:21 are happy with that?
16:47:28 >>CHAIRMAN: We have an appeal hearing.
16:47:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Vote on the motion.

16:47:34 >>GWEN MILLER: All in favor of the motion say Aye.
16:47:36 We had a second.
16:47:37 (Motion carried).
16:47:38 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I was the second.
16:47:40 I want to say one thing.
16:47:41 I think we have come a long way from where we were a
16:47:44 month ago.
16:47:45 I think we got extremely creative conditions that
16:47:47 protect not only the city but also protect this
16:47:49 neighborhood, while still being supportive of the
16:47:52 petitioner.
16:47:53 We all agree that Busch Gardens is very important to
16:47:56 this community, they are a major employer, they are a
16:47:59 good neighbor, good corporate citizens.
16:48:01 But at the same time they can't walk in and just get
16:48:03 carte blanche whatever they want.
16:48:05 So working with our legal staff, they have created, I
16:48:09 think, very good conditions that we have now improved
16:48:11 upon once again today, and that's why I am willing to
16:48:14 support the motion when it comes back after legal.
16:48:20 (Motion carried).
16:48:21 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: I commend Mr. Dingfelder for his

16:48:23 words.
16:48:24 >>CHAIRMAN: We need to open the appeal hearing.
16:48:27 >> So moved.
16:48:28 >> Second.
16:48:28 (Motion carried)
16:48:28 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Land Development Coordination.
16:48:49 I have not been sworn.
16:48:55 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, raids your right hand.
16:48:58 (Oath administered by Clerk).
16:49:03 >>ABBYE FEELEY: Council, I'm here on behalf of
16:49:05 Catherine Coyle this afternoon, in relationship to an
16:49:09 appeal being brought forth at 3414 west Azeele street.
16:49:13 The petition area replied for a special use on the
16:49:15 property which was a home occupation, and was not able
16:49:21 to meet all of the required criteria for that home
16:49:24 occupation.
16:49:25 As you can see at the bottom of page 1, they are
16:49:28 required that -- it is required that no home
16:49:32 occupation is conducted in an accessory opening.
16:49:35 And the petitioner was proposing to have the home
16:49:40 occupation as an attached garage.
16:49:42 Therefore, pursuant to the criteria of special use, it

16:49:45 was denied because it did not meet that criteria.
16:49:50 The petitioner currently has a special use for the
16:49:52 business, home occupation at 3916 West Nichols Street
16:49:57 and that was approved in 1997 and is currently
16:50:00 occurring in the main structure.
16:50:02 They are now moving, I believe, to 4414 west Azeele
16:50:05 and we are going to propose to have that in a detached
16:50:08 garage.
16:50:10 Provided the home occupation criteria on page 2 of the
16:50:13 report.
16:50:14 And on page 3 I have shown that City Council may grant
16:50:20 waivers to governing the special use in section
16:50:23 27-272, variance that is may need to be waived are
16:50:31 required to go before either an administrative waiver
16:50:34 or the VRB.
16:50:35 It is up to the discretion of council whether or not
16:50:38 they choose to grant the special use, if they find it
16:50:41 consistent with the intended purpose of the special
16:50:44 use criteria, 27-269 and it is the responsibility to
16:50:50 present the evidence of the affiant.
16:50:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Anybody have any questions?
16:50:56 Okay, I have one.

16:50:58 It appears, in looking at this very quickly, that the
16:51:02 objection of staff, perhaps is a technical one because
16:51:06 the code doesn't recognize it, you know, having this
16:51:10 business out in the garage, so therefore if the code
16:51:12 doesn't recognize it then staff can't approve it.
16:51:15 >>> It is correct.
16:51:16 In a special use 1 application the petition must meet
16:51:19 all criteria identified in the code for that special
16:51:22 use.
16:51:23 If the petition cannot meet all those criteria, then
16:51:27 it is staff's responsibility to deny that special use
16:51:29 1 which is done administratively, and then the
16:51:32 petitioner has the right to appeal to City Council.
16:51:34 >> So you all didn't look at it and give it a value
16:51:37 judgment or land use judgment or anything like that.
16:51:39 You looked at the code, you couldn't approve it?
16:51:41 >>> Correct.
16:51:42 >> Okay.
16:51:42 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Petitioner.
16:51:58 >> Good afternoon.
16:51:59 Thank you for waiting so long.
16:52:00 We have been here all day.

16:52:02 >> Thank you for waiting.
16:52:04 We apologize for the delay.
16:52:05 >>> My husband and I own the home at 4414 Azeele.
16:52:10 We have had a home business for ten years, where we
16:52:14 are now.
16:52:15 We have letters of support from our neighbors.
16:52:19 And the new neighborhood, we have letters of support
16:52:22 from the neighbors all the way around us.
16:52:29 Yes.
16:52:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Go ahead.
16:52:51 >>> We went to zoning and found, we knew that we
16:52:55 needed to work out of the garage.
16:52:57 They just rubber stamp denied it and said we would
16:52:59 have to appeal to you.
16:53:02 I can't understand how we can be a legal business
16:53:04 under one roof and not another, especially when we
16:53:08 have longevity doing this.
16:53:10 On the 31st I contacted the Beach Park
16:53:12 neighborhood association president, explained our
16:53:15 position.
16:53:18 She called and said they fight every ordinance that
16:53:22 comes in, every variance, it's just the way it is.

16:53:28 Our Palma Ceia west neighborhood association, that's
16:53:30 not the way we work.
16:53:32 We investigate everything that's coming into our area.
16:53:34 We check it out.
16:53:35 We meet with the people.
16:53:37 And then we make our determination based on that.
16:53:41 And what's good for our neighborhood.
16:53:48 I have pictures here to show you where we currently
16:53:50 run our business.
16:53:51 I have never used this before so I don't know.
16:53:53 >> Just put it down.
16:53:59 >>> This is our home now and where the double doors
16:54:02 are is our business.
16:54:03 We are on a corner.
16:54:04 And so we are highly visible there.
16:54:12 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: That building is detached from
16:54:13 your home?
16:54:14 >>> No.
16:54:15 This is under our home roof.
16:54:17 >> This is the home they have been in before where
16:54:18 they have been operating this same business.
16:54:20 Now they are moving to a knew home that has a detached

16:54:22 garage.
16:54:23 Correct?
16:54:24 >>> Truth of the matter is, we bought this house,
16:54:26 rehabbed it with the intent of selling it.
16:54:29 The market went flat.
16:54:30 We have had it for three years.
16:54:32 It's been sitting empty.
16:54:34 We rent it for one year.
16:54:35 And after five months, the tenant filed bankruptcy and
16:54:38 moved out.
16:54:43 We had quite a long discussion about this.
16:54:44 It's a big deal for us to move where we live and move
16:54:47 our business.
16:54:48 But everything in this house is new, and we are
16:54:51 approaching retirement, and it makes sense for us to
16:54:54 move.
16:54:54 It's a smaller house.
16:54:56 Everything is newer.
16:54:58 We think our house will sell faster.
16:55:01 >> Do you have a picture of the new house?
16:55:03 >>> I do.
16:55:09 This is the new house.

16:55:10 As you can see, the garage is more than 80 feet back
16:55:13 from the street.
16:55:14 There's one driveway.
16:55:16 We were talking last night, we have had two people
16:55:19 come to our business this week.
16:55:23 We don't have a lot of traffic.
16:55:24 Obviously we think this is sufficient for what we do.
16:55:27 We have had our neighbors, the new neighbors tell us
16:55:29 that they would like us to live there.
16:55:33 We have turned down tenants with three dogs that want
16:55:35 to move in there, out of respect for the neighborhood.
16:55:38 We think we will be good neighbors.
16:55:47 I should have had in my hand, but I don't, a
16:55:50 contractors bid.
16:55:51 We need to put air conditioning in the garage.
16:55:54 We need to take the garage doors out and put a double
16:55:57 door and a window oh in there to get natural light.
16:56:01 There will be no plumbing of any kind put in there.
16:56:05 Simply what we need to operate.
16:56:07 It's a very small mom and pop operation.
16:56:10 We are both in our 60s and we are trying to scale
16:56:13 down.

16:56:14 >> Let me suggest -- and it's up to you -- you have
16:56:18 time for rebuttal after we hear from other folks and
16:56:21 reserve your time now for rebuttal and then come back
16:56:24 and you can finish up.
16:56:27 Just because of the late hour.
16:56:28 >>> Certainly.
16:56:29 Thank you.
16:56:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is anybody here to speak for or
16:56:35 against the project?
16:56:36 Whoever gets to the podium first.
16:56:39 >>MARGARET VIZZI: 213 south Sherill.
16:56:41 Sorry, I'm the only one here.
16:56:43 There was some this morning.
16:56:46 Emmy stayed as long as she could to take care of sick
16:56:50 children.
16:56:51 Very quickly, I would like to hand in a petition in
16:56:56 opposition to this, along with e-mail yous that Emmy
16:57:04 received, and after I give you some quotes from Emmy,
16:57:07 I would like to enter it into the record.
16:57:12 It is not true that we have opposed every home
16:57:16 occupation.
16:57:16 There are those who do do accounting work.

16:57:21 There are some who do seamstress work.
16:57:23 We have not opposed that.
16:57:26 But we are opposing in this case is a home occupation
16:57:30 for a reupholsterer business.
16:57:35 Under your own code, and I can't find it, the
16:57:39 reupholstering is only supposed to be in CG.
16:57:44 It's not an RO.
16:57:46 And I can't find it but I will find it, to enter it
16:57:51 into the record.
16:57:52 When zoning listed home occupations, it was very clear
16:57:59 to everyone who participated in that process that a
16:58:01 home occupation would be something like a seamstress,
16:58:05 or real estate person who is working at a desk, with a
16:58:08 phone, not a reupholstering business.
16:58:12 Please remember, this space with the property,
16:58:18 reupholstering could also be reupholstering
16:58:22 automobiles.
16:58:24 If they leave someone else could come in.
16:58:26 So you can be opposed to anything.
16:58:27 Emmy in her letter will tell that you she observed the
16:58:32 property where they are now, everyone though the code
16:58:34 says that you are not supposed to store any of the

16:58:38 products that you use, they were having large pieces
16:58:47 of foam and other things necessary for reupholstering.
16:58:50 I did not see that.
16:58:53 I would enter this into the record because those are
16:58:56 hers.
16:58:56 I will give you this.
16:58:59 There's another one that asked me to please let you
16:59:01 know that they lived in an area in another city, and I
16:59:08 don't remember right now, where this began to happen,
16:59:10 where small businesses were -- which were not really
16:59:13 home occupations began to come in, and the whole area
16:59:17 then became small business.
16:59:22 Which is basically CN.
16:59:25 This area is zoned strictly for RS-75.
16:59:31 No other business is supposed to be allowed.
16:59:34 Therefore, it is not, as this will show you, I hope it
16:59:44 comes up, it is strictly single-family detached
16:59:50 residential.
16:59:51 That whole area.
16:59:52 So this would begin to set a precedent.
16:59:56 It is not what is existing now.
17:00:03 And it's not compatible with the surrounding area.

17:00:11 So I would ask you, please do --
17:00:15 (Bell sounds).
17:00:16 Do up hold the zoning administrative denial.
17:00:26 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
17:00:28 I would like to ask the legal department a question.
17:00:30 Do we have the legal right to do this?
17:00:32 In other words, there are codes that you can do and
17:00:38 can't do in another case but not here because this is
17:00:40 attached.
17:00:41 Do we have the legal right to override the zoning
17:00:44 administrator based on the facts that were presented?
17:00:47 That's the question.
17:00:48 >>JULIA COLE: Legal department.
17:00:50 Ms. Feeley described that you can't meet the technical
17:00:56 code for specific special use, and that's one.
17:01:00 Then the way the process works is you appeal that to
17:01:02 City Council for a determination as to whether or not
17:01:05 the special use code has been met.
17:01:10 And so that's really what's in front of you today.
17:01:12 So, yes, you would have the legal right to overturn
17:01:14 the decision of the zoning administrator.
17:01:16 I do want to clarify one point.

17:01:19 Ms. Vizzi raised an issue regarding whether or not
17:01:23 this type of business would be able to receive a home
17:01:28 occupation.
17:01:30 Eligible to be considered as a home occupation.
17:01:32 I understand from Ms. Feeley that Cathy Coyle, zoning
17:01:36 administrator, has made a determination that the way
17:01:38 our code reads that this type of upholstery would be
17:01:42 eligible to be a home occupation if in fact it was
17:01:46 something that wasn't within the garage, but actually
17:01:48 within the home in and of itself.
17:01:51 And that's really the issue here.
17:01:52 But under the way our code reads you can't have it
17:01:55 within the garage.
17:01:56 It needs to be within the home itself.
17:01:59 And just to clarify one other issue that I think might
17:02:02 be of interest for everybody to understand, that if
17:02:05 you do grant a special use permit of this type, home
17:02:09 occupation for an upholstery business, yes, that would
17:02:15 only be for an upholstery business in this location,
17:02:18 you couldn't turn that into some other kind of
17:02:20 business without coming back to City Council.
17:02:25 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And this stays with the land these

17:02:27 people were to move out it still would be or it loses
17:02:32 its qualification to continue as an upholstery shop?
17:02:36 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Julia, did you hear the question?
17:02:45 >>JULIA COLE: Yes.
17:02:45 I wanted to confer with staff on that issue.
17:02:48 Special use permit in and for itself for a home
17:02:50 occupation, upholstery business would run with the
17:02:53 land, meaning if the petitioner moved out of the
17:02:55 house, and somebody else purchased the house, and they
17:02:58 intend, with a home occupation to live in the
17:03:02 residence and run and upholstery business, they would
17:03:05 be able to do that under the special use permit.
17:03:07 If somebody wanted to come into this property and do
17:03:10 some other kind of business -- like real estate?
17:03:13 >>> They would have to come back to City Council.
17:03:15 And if it was eligible for a home occupation business,
17:03:18 then it would be reviewed under that.
17:03:20 If it's for some other kind of use that was not
17:03:22 eligible for a home occupation business, then under
17:03:25 the zoning classification that would be the question
17:03:27 in front of you.
17:03:33 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Next public comment.

17:03:35 >>> I have not been sworn.
17:03:39 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is there anybody else here that
17:03:41 hasn't been sworn?
17:03:42 (Oath administered by Clerk).
17:03:47 >>> My name is Debra falls and I'm a current neighbor
17:03:52 of William Gay, 4001 west San Isabella Street.
17:03:58 I lived across for search years and I can attest that
17:04:01 there has been no negative impact on our neighborhood
17:04:04 from their business rung their home.
17:04:06 In fact I'm quite saddened to hear this they may leave
17:04:09 our neighborhood, not only for losing a couple that is
17:04:11 passionate, considerate in support of Palma Ceia west
17:04:15 homeowners and our neighborhood as a whole, but for
17:04:17 the safety and security that their home based business
17:04:20 brings to me and my family each and every day.
17:04:23 Both the houses sit on a corner, and were
17:04:26 catter-corner from each other and the way they were
17:04:28 built is they are at a diagonal.
17:04:31 So my kitchen window -- and I have a home based
17:04:34 business -- windows both face what you saw in the far
17:04:36 right, they are double doors.
17:04:38 So I don't mean to sound like a busy body neighbor but

17:04:42 I have full view most hours of the day and actually
17:04:45 night of their business.
17:04:48 And there is no unobstructed view.
17:04:50 I have never heard noise.
17:04:52 I have never witnessed commercial truck traffic.
17:04:55 I have never seen additional cars in their driveway,
17:04:58 or parked on the street because of their business.
17:05:02 Again, I have only received the comfort that I know
17:05:04 somebody is looking out for my home and my neighbor
17:05:06 during the day.
17:05:09 Not only is their home well maintained, and of course
17:05:12 that is -- but they have gone above and beyond to be
17:05:17 good neighbors.
17:05:18 They have recently saved, at quite expense, and
17:05:23 actually not at the recommendation of the city, the
17:05:29 tree that you see now, that was actually slated for
17:05:31 removal and they did everything in their power to save
17:05:33 the tree.
17:05:34 And it's there today.
17:05:35 Mr. and Mrs. Gay are both active in the home own he
17:05:38 is association that Karen talked about, and they even
17:05:41 go as far as serving on the Board of Directors for the

17:05:43 past three or four years.
17:05:44 They have made only positive changes for the
17:05:46 neighborhood.
17:05:48 You couldn't ask for any better addition to any
17:05:50 neighborhood.
17:05:52 Our loss is Beach Park's gain.
17:05:54 Just lastly, I find it a little ironic and staff did
17:05:58 touch on that the they could easily conduct business
17:06:01 in their living room which you see how close it is to
17:06:03 the south house and they could be in their living room
17:06:06 conducting this business with no curtains on the
17:06:08 window working away.
17:06:09 But they want to move it to the back of their house
17:06:11 where nobody can see it and nobody can hear it.
17:06:15 Not that there's sound coming out.
17:06:17 And there's opposition to that.
17:06:18 So I just want you to keep that in mind.
17:06:21 And I have had occasion, I have actually -- the first
17:06:24 two years I lived in the area, I didn't even know they
17:06:26 had a home based business.
17:06:27 That's how quiet it was.
17:06:28 I have been in the workshop and probably the loudest

17:06:31 piece of equipment that you may hear at any given time
17:06:35 is a staple gun, and just a regular staple gun.
17:06:39 You never her any other sound.
17:06:42 I hear more from Plant High School that's one block
17:06:44 away.
17:06:47 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: My question is about trucks.
17:06:49 It's for you.
17:06:53 In one of the letters we got people in the
17:06:55 neighborhood were concerned about trucks delivering
17:06:58 sofas, picking up big things.
17:07:01 I mean, were there commercial trucks?
17:07:03 >>> I have never seen a commercial truck.
17:07:06 Every once in a while there may be a van.
17:07:09 I mean, they happen to own a van, as their vehicle.
17:07:12 So it's just a regular van.
17:07:13 It's not a commercial van.
17:07:14 Nothing is lettered.
17:07:15 There's no signage on the outside every time home.
17:07:18 Never has been.
17:07:18 I mean, I know commercial entities in the neighborhood
17:07:22 where there's some signage, but you know it's a
17:07:25 business.

17:07:27 Is it Azeele?
17:07:29 It's a photography shop.
17:07:30 I can't remember quite what it is but they have a big
17:07:33 number in front of their house and kind of speaks
17:07:35 their business.
17:07:36 They have none of that.
17:07:38 I have to say, it is very, very unobtrusive.
17:07:43 I have been -- there's been more noise from our other
17:07:47 neighbors because they are having work done and trucks
17:07:49 in the driveway.
17:07:50 >> That's a greenhouse with red shutters.
17:07:55 Where the photographer is at.
17:08:00 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: He's just showing off again.
17:08:02 Thank you.
17:08:03 Is there anybody else that wishes to speak?
17:08:04 Petitioner, you have a few minutes for rebuttal.
17:08:15 >>> I'm not sure what to say.
17:08:16 We have a huge investment.
17:08:18 We have a beautiful house.
17:08:19 We don't want to move.
17:08:22 But we are in a position now that we own two
17:08:24 properties, and we think one will sell quicker than

17:08:27 the other.
17:08:28 We are a little bit distressed that we are as unwanted
17:08:31 as we seem to be going into Beach Park.
17:08:34 Going around talking to our neighbors, we didn't
17:08:37 realize how good they are.
17:08:41 And, you know, we are good neighbors.
17:08:44 And we have tried to be good citizens.
17:08:45 Azele is a very Board of Directors street.
17:08:49 I was distressed to find that out.
17:08:51 I would not have actively chose tone live thon busy
17:08:54 street.
17:08:55 We can pick up our own supplies and not have them
17:08:58 delivered.
17:09:00 They are typically delivered in a van once a week.
17:09:02 We had our letters from our notice go out on Monday.
17:09:06 On Thursday we had three vehicles parked across the
17:09:08 street and one man stayed for two hours watching us.
17:09:10 One day a week we have deliveries, and that was the
17:09:13 morning the man came and made a delivery.
17:09:15 He was in and out of our house in ten minutes in a
17:09:17 van.
17:09:19 That's about the extent.

17:09:22 Thank you for your time.
17:09:23 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Any further questions from council?
17:09:28 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Ms. Coyle, could she do this
17:09:31 under the present zoning in another part of her house?
17:09:36 >>> What I understand the only issue that relates to
17:09:38 why this is in front of you is to do it in the garage
17:09:43 and the home occupation does not allow to you conduct
17:09:46 your business from your garage.
17:09:48 Yes, if they wanted to do it from within their
17:09:50 residential structure, they would not need to come to
17:09:52 City Council for that.
17:09:53 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: How far is the garage from the
17:09:56 home?
17:09:56 >>> That I don't know the answer to.
17:09:57 >> Could you answer that, ma'am?
17:10:01 >>> Could I give you a site plan?
17:10:04 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: You can put it on the overhead.
17:10:07 Where is the street?
17:10:08 >>> The street is here.
17:10:15 Garage is here.
17:10:16 It's in the very back.
17:10:19 I have spoken to this neighbor and also these two.

17:10:24 Yes, we can work out of our living room legally here.
17:10:27 >> How far is that from your house?
17:10:29 >>> The garage?
17:10:30 >> Yes.
17:10:31 >>> 20 feet maybe.
17:10:34 >> So if it was attached your house that wouldn't be
17:10:37 considered a detached garage?
17:10:38 >>> They do not allow that.
17:10:40 They will not allow a breezeway.
17:10:42 It has to be, to meet that qualification, has to be
17:10:45 under the main body of the roof.
17:10:48 Cannot be attached in any way.
17:10:49 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: But if it was an attached garage?
17:10:54 >>> Yes.
17:10:54 >> No, I'm asking staff.
17:10:56 >>> Oh, sorry.
17:11:17 >>> In the primary structure, I believe in the primary
17:11:20 structure.
17:11:22 Because it's detached and that makes it an accessory
17:11:25 structure and per definition of accessory structure.
17:11:28 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I am going to move to close.
17:11:32 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Didn't answer my question

17:11:35 company.
17:11:35 That garage be attached to the main body of the house?
17:11:38 >>> Could the garage that is currently detached be
17:11:41 attached?
17:11:41 >> Right.
17:11:42 >>> It becomes part of the principal structure and
17:11:49 then they need a variance because we are now at --
17:11:54 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Where the garage is currently to
17:11:56 close the facade, or to the rear.
17:12:00 >>> Because if they attach it, it becomes part of the
17:12:03 primary structure and it would have to meet the rear
17:12:05 yard setback as 20 feet, which in this case it doesn't
17:12:07 because it's properly set as an accessory structure at
17:12:11 3-foot rear, 3-foot side.
17:12:12 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have one more question if nobody
17:12:17 else on council does.
17:12:18 Ms. Vizzi mentioned -- don't sit down, Abbye.
17:12:21 Ms. Vizzi mentioned about an auto upholstery use, and
17:12:25 that would concern me greatly that if we approve this,
17:12:29 that the next property owner 20 years from now, ten
17:12:31 years from now, whatever, could turn it into an auto
17:12:34 upholstery use.

17:12:35 Do you have an opinion on that?
17:12:36 >>> I do.
17:12:40 I'm looking at the definition real quick.
17:12:41 There is vehicle repair major and minor.
17:12:44 It would be my preliminary determination right here
17:12:46 that that would be included as one of those, in one of
17:12:50 those definitions, which would not be a use that would
17:12:55 fall under that which would be allowed for home
17:12:57 occupation.
17:12:58 >> The short answer is?
17:12:59 >>> No.
17:13:00 >> Okay.
17:13:02 But if we approve this today, then the next person who
17:13:06 buys this could not do an auto upholstery use.
17:13:09 That's correct?
17:13:09 >>> I believe that's correct.
17:13:16 If I could add something further to that.
17:13:18 What you are hearing Abbye indicating is
17:13:20 interpretation of the code.
17:13:21 However, if it is something that council would like me
17:13:24 to, I can make an amendment to the body of the
17:13:26 ordinance to make it clear within the body of this

17:13:29 ordinance that it's for furniture upholstery only.
17:13:35 As long as petitioner is okay it with.
17:13:37 Not withstanding -- and I think what I hear Abbye
17:13:41 saying is, no, not under the code.
17:13:43 But just in order to ensure that we don't have an
17:13:45 issue somewhere down the line, if petitioner is okay
17:13:47 with that I can make that --
17:13:50 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: If they sell their house in 50
17:13:52 years, right?
17:13:52 >>> Special use, any change of use would be a
17:13:58 substantial deviation, and they would have to apply
17:14:01 for a new home occupation.
17:14:08 You heard staff say it needs to be an inclination to
17:14:11 ask you if you would be amenable to that condition.
17:14:13 >>> Absolutely.
17:14:14 And we were told that there's a loss of 30 days that
17:14:17 it has to be reapplied for anyway.
17:14:21 So absolutely happy with that.
17:14:22 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Is there anything else from
17:14:24 council?
17:14:25 A motion and second to close.
17:14:26 All in favor of the motion say Aye.

17:14:28 Opposed?
17:14:28 All right.
17:14:29 I'll entertain a motion on the floor.
17:14:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: I believe it will come back for
17:14:37 second reading.
17:14:38 Does it require -- Ms. Cole?
17:14:43 Is your interpretation if the ordinance can be read at
17:14:45 first reading today?
17:14:46 >>> We will go ahead and read it and I will change
17:14:48 that within the body of the ordinance.
17:14:51 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I don't have a copy of that.
17:14:52 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't know if it's even
17:14:55 actually -- (static)
17:15:01 I guess we went late.
17:15:02 >> Move an ordinance approving a special use permit
17:15:05 appeal from a decision of the zoning administrator
17:15:07 allowing a home occupation, furniture a poll industry
17:15:12 business, to occur in an accessory building in an
17:15:14 RS-75 residential single family zoning district in the
17:15:17 city of Tampa, Florida and more particularly described
17:15:20 in section 1 allowing a home occupation to be
17:15:22 conducted in an accessory building providing an

17:15:25 effective date.
17:15:27 >>THE CLERK: I need a second.
17:15:29 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: There's a motion and there's a
17:15:30 second.
17:15:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: And that the be written into the
17:15:36 record that no automotive shop can be put in,
17:15:39 whatever.
17:15:40 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Right.
17:15:41 And this is just for furniture upholstery only.
17:15:44 I think that's the condition they are going to be
17:15:46 writing.
17:15:46 The motion and second.
17:15:48 Any comments or questions on the motion?
17:15:51 Okay.
17:15:51 Let me just drop the gavel for a second and say that I
17:15:54 will support this.
17:15:55 I believe that they have met the general intent of the
17:15:58 special use code, based upon the testimony and
17:16:01 evidence that we have heard today.
17:16:02 I think they have proven themselves to be excellent
17:16:04 neighbors on San Nicholas.
17:16:07 They have no problems on San Nicholas and they are not

17:16:10 going to have any problems on Azeele.
17:16:11 Nobody is even going to know they are doing that.
17:16:13 It's everyone going to be less visible and less
17:16:16 noticeable than it is at their San Nicholas.
17:16:18 I'll support it as well.
17:16:19 Motion and second.
17:16:20 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
17:16:22 Any opposed?
17:16:22 Motion passes unanimously.
17:16:24 We'll come back for second reading --
17:16:29 >> November 1st.
17:16:31 >> 9:30.
17:16:33 We'll hear 141, Busch Gardens revised ordinance.
17:16:37 Revised ordinance.
17:17:16 Rebecca?
17:17:17 Do we have a revised ordinance on Busch Gardens?
17:17:21 >>REBECCA KERT: Yes. I made the corrections that you
17:17:23 requested that we eliminate the ability to have
17:17:24 package sales, and that we limit the special events to
17:17:27 those expressly contained in the ordinance.
17:17:32 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: It's now 4(COP-X) and we have
17:17:34 struck the conditions including but not limited to.

17:17:39 Mr. Caetano?
17:17:41 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Yes.
17:17:42 Ordinance number, making lawful the sale of beverage
17:17:50 containing alcohol regardless of alcohol content,
17:17:53 beer, wine, and liquor, 4(COP-X) for consumption on
17:17:58 the premises in connection with a business
17:18:00 establishment on a certain lot, plot, tract of land
17:18:04 located at 4545 east Bougainvillea Avenue and 3000
17:18:12 east Busch Boulevard, and 9415 north McKinley drive,
17:18:16 Tampa, Florida, as more particularly described in
17:18:19 section 3 hereof waiving certain restrictions as to a
17:18:23 distance based upon certain findings, imposing certain
17:18:26 conditions, providing for repeal of all ordinances in
17:18:29 conflict, providing an effective date.
17:18:32 >>CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
17:18:33 We have a motion.
17:18:34 We have a second.
17:18:35 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: And plastic cups.
17:18:39 >>MARY MULHERN: I just want ton say I can't support
17:18:42 this because I think there's in a way that even with
17:18:44 all the conditions written into here, there's no way
17:18:50 to enforce it.

17:18:51 And basically it's just going to mean that Busch
17:18:53 Gardens and adventure island are open for drinking,
17:18:58 with all the problems attendant with the noise,
17:19:04 driving, and reducing the family friendliness.
17:19:07 I would like to refer to the fact that we have a
17:19:09 hearing previously to continuing this, and I think all
17:19:14 the support for waive to say is in that hearing.
17:19:17 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: It seems to me that Busch Gardens
17:19:23 needs to be a good neighbor, because of the scale,
17:19:26 because of the number of neighborhoods that it
17:19:30 interacts with, connects with.
17:19:31 And I think that there needs to be a concerted effort
17:19:35 on behalf of Busch Gardens to communicate with the
17:19:37 neighborhood and figure out how to best protect them.
17:19:42 Noise issue which was referred to by Mr. Neal earlier,
17:19:46 is a true concern, and I don't want to negatively
17:19:49 impact the neighborhood with the noise late at night.
17:19:52 I think that that's a valid concern.
17:19:55 And I would really love for you all to work on that so
17:20:00 that we are proactive and eliminate problems in the
17:20:02 future.
17:20:03 And it might be lowering the decibels, might be having

17:20:07 the noisy activities in the center of the park so that
17:20:09 the neighborhoods are protected.
17:20:11 I know there can be successful solutions created and I
17:20:14 look forward to that.
17:20:16 Better communication happening.
17:20:20 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I like to speak at 7:00 when I have
17:20:22 my next point so we'll be here for an hour and a half.
17:20:25 But let me say that no zonings are the same, no
17:20:31 alcohol is the same, by preponderance of evidence on
17:20:35 the existing Busch Gardens regarding alcohol, it has
17:20:41 been very minor, almost nil.
17:20:44 The city has the same thing inside a residential
17:20:47 district, inside the city limits, like the one we are
17:20:51 looking at now called Lowry Park, that has had no
17:20:55 incidents that I know of.
17:20:57 I certainly don't want the city to have something that
17:21:01 private enterprise can't have.
17:21:03 If it's all relative.
17:21:05 In this case it is.
17:21:08 The evidence that we have taken, the cautionary items
17:21:12 that we have had, the evidence presented regarding
17:21:15 noise, has nothing to do with this ordinance.

17:21:18 It has something to do with the structural integrity
17:21:21 of Busch Gardens and their units that they have there,
17:21:25 operation of the roller coasters of this, that and the
17:21:29 other if that's the case that's an issue for another
17:21:33 time.
17:21:33 So we don't have enough votes to continue talking.
17:21:37 So what I am saying is I am going to support this.
17:21:42 I understand the concerns of the neighborhood.
17:21:43 I will work with the neighborhood in case this becomes
17:21:45 something that is not appropriate.
17:21:48 And Mr. Dingfelder as chairman told me to cut it short
17:21:50 so I will.
17:21:51 Thank you very much.
17:21:56 >>> I inadvertently left in one of the references.
17:21:59 I can make that change between first and second
17:22:02 reading.
17:22:07 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Minor errata that is not
17:22:11 significant.
17:22:12 Any further discussion?
17:22:13 Motion and second to approve as modified.
17:22:16 All in favor.
17:22:17 Any opposed?

17:22:19 Motion passes 4 to 1.
17:22:21 The second reading will be November 1st.
17:22:27 Any other business, madam clerk, that we haven't
17:22:29 touched?
17:22:29 >>THE CLERK: (off microphone).
17:22:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Motion to receive and file.
17:22:36 >> So moved.
17:22:37 >> Second.
17:22:37 (Motion carried).
17:22:38 >>THE CLERK: (off microphone)
17:22:50 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I have a motion and second to have
17:22:52 Bonnie Wise present an award.
17:22:55 Motion and second.
17:22:56 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
17:22:57 (Motion carried).
17:22:58 >>THE CLERK: (off microphone)
17:23:03 >> The mayor's mass transit director requesting five
17:23:14 minutes on November 1st.
17:23:15 Motion and second.
17:23:20 Make
17:23:21 Mr. Shelby.
17:23:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: First of all I think that south

17:23:32 Florida is one of the few skate schools that does not
17:23:34 have a football stadium.
17:23:35 Although I am not in favor of publicly supported
17:23:38 stadiums for professional sports, I believe south
17:23:40 Florida should have their own stadium.
17:23:42 Not because they are winning, but because not Florida
17:23:45 State, not FSU, not central Florida, any one of those
17:23:52 colleges, except private colleges like Miami, they
17:23:56 have their own stadium.
17:23:57 I think if they want to be competitive in the world
17:23:59 today, they have got to have their own stadium.
17:24:01 I am not going to tell you I am going to fund it.
17:24:03 But I am telling you that they should have their own
17:24:05 stadium.
17:24:06 They can be in competition, instead of giving all the
17:24:08 money away, signage, beverages, everything, parking,
17:24:17 they need the money to stay competitive.
17:24:19 That's just one thought.
17:24:21 Another one and I'll ask the council member to move
17:24:23 because I have a family member there, but there's a
17:24:25 little school, middle school, not little, great
17:24:28 people, one of the highest "A" schools in the county

17:24:32 that also has a fantastic basketball program.
17:24:36 Wilson is second to this one; Ms. Mulhern, as I
17:24:40 understand it.
17:24:41 But if some council member would move to have in an
17:24:44 evening session because they have school, I believe
17:24:46 those girls have been undefeated for at least four
17:24:48 years.
17:24:49 >> What school would that be?
17:24:52 >> Mr. Miranda is looking for a motion for Coleman
17:24:58 middle school girls basketball.
17:25:02 >> We'll give them a little plaque.
17:25:04 >> We have a motion and second.
17:25:05 All in favor of the motion say Aye.
17:25:10 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Date and time?
17:25:10 >> Whenever we can.
17:25:11 We'll find out.
17:25:12 >> We'll arrange a date.
17:25:13 >> Mr. Miranda, didn't you support that motion in '96
17:25:17 for building of a stadium?
17:25:19 >>> It was September 4th, sir.
17:25:23 >> Mrs. Saul-Sena?
17:25:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: Nothing.

17:25:30 >> Ms. Mulhern.
17:25:33 >>MARY MULHERN: I have a couple of things.
17:25:36 First of all, I think we voted last week or the week
17:25:38 before to support asking for seats for City of Tampa,
17:25:44 Temple Terrace and Plant City.
17:25:46 The EPC.
17:25:49 Earlier this week, I went to the Temple Terrace City
17:25:54 Council meeting and presented the draft legislation
17:25:59 and they also voted unanimously to support it.
17:26:02 The county commission this week, yesterday, I guess, I
17:26:06 had a meeting at which point, I don't think they
17:26:10 voted.
17:26:11 They didn't vote.
17:26:12 Is that right?
17:26:12 They just discussed it.
17:26:15 They discussed the -- my proposed legislation.
17:26:21 And Mr. Blair and Mr. Newman supported the legislation
17:26:26 that added that they wanted to bring back their
17:26:31 request from last year to have more representation for
17:26:35 the county commission on the Planning Commission and
17:26:37 Sports Authority.
17:26:38 So what I would like to ask this council to do is to

17:26:44 pass the resolution -- and I have to pass this out --
17:26:55 on December 12th, 2006, City Council passed a
17:26:59 resolution to oppose their request for more
17:27:08 representation on those boards.
17:27:10 And I have just given you the resolution.
17:27:15 I don't know if we can -- can we pass this?
17:27:21 I can submit this and rewrite the date on it.
17:27:24 >>MARTIN SHELBY: Actually it's a resolution that still
17:27:27 stands.
17:27:27 >> So we already opposed it, we don't have to oppose
17:27:30 it again?
17:27:31 >>MARTIN SHELBY: It says -- I haven't looked at it.
17:27:33 It's the first time I have looked at it.
17:27:35 With regard to the "whereas" it says a local bill has
17:27:39 been filed but at least in terms of (static)
17:27:45 The position as of this date, and this has not been
17:27:51 repealed so I would say this is still effective.
17:27:54 >>MARY MULHERN: Maybe I could make a motion.
17:27:57 I don't know if I even need to do this.
17:27:59 But when I made the original motion asking for support
17:28:01 of the draft legislation, it of course had nothing to
17:28:05 do with any other committees or commissions.

17:28:07 It was just about the EPC.
17:28:09 So if I could ask again that this council support that
17:28:17 legislation without amendments, at the point where we
17:28:21 present it to the legislative delegation.
17:28:26 Maybe I don't need to do that, Charlie.
17:28:28 What do you think?
17:28:30 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: Well, speaking for myself.
17:28:32 I think it's well intended and well formulated on what
17:28:34 your goals are and what you want to do.
17:28:37 I'm not -- I don't want to start a war.
17:28:41 And the way they talked, when they supported, they
17:28:48 also made reference to just this thing right here
17:28:50 about the Sports Authority and the Planning Commission
17:28:52 and based on population, and these kind of things.
17:28:57 I had assumed -- and I was wrong -- that there had
17:29:00 been some conversation between members of this body
17:29:04 and the legislature.
17:29:05 The legislature in essence created these things by
17:29:08 special act.
17:29:10 It would take eight legislatures, eleven or twelve
17:29:16 that there are, and three senators.
17:29:17 And I don't know if we have that support or any

17:29:19 support.
17:29:20 In other words, before I vote and put something in
17:29:26 order, I would like to know what information we may
17:29:29 have.
17:29:30 >>MARY MULHERN: I think you already voted on it.
17:29:34 >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: If you want to -- you can correct
17:29:38 me, young lady, all you want.
17:29:40 But I can certainly change my vote at any time I want.
17:29:44 >>MARY MULHERN: Okay.
17:29:44 If you would like me to update you on the work that I
17:29:47 have done with the legislation, legislature, I'm in
17:29:52 the process of working on that.
17:29:55 And so far, I have had no one indicates to me that
17:30:00 they would not support it.
17:30:01 But as you can imagine, this is a very political
17:30:05 operation, trying to get -- Garner all the support and
17:30:09 make sure that what I'm proposing doesn't get diluted.
17:30:14 My position -- is that we, last year they proposed it,
17:30:21 and it didn't get through.
17:30:22 So I would just hope that everyone would stand up to
17:30:26 that again.
17:30:28 This has nothing to do with the EPC.

17:30:30 We are talking about totally different committees.
17:30:34 They were and are again asking for more representation
17:30:37 on those committees.
17:30:39 We are asking for a seat at the table on the EPC which
17:30:44 is a regulatory commission that regulates all of our
17:30:47 jurisdiction.
17:30:47 So I think we have a very strong case.
17:30:50 I think the public wants it.
17:30:51 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Let me just ask you from a
17:30:59 procedural perspective.
17:31:00 I think we need to be clear on what it is you want to
17:31:03 do today.
17:31:05 Because the hour is getting late.
17:31:06 >>MARY MULHERN: Well, according to Mr. Shelby,
17:31:10 apparently I don't have to do anything today.
17:31:13 So I just pass that on for your information.
17:31:15 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: All right.
17:31:16 >>MARY MULHERN: It apparently is a resolution that is
17:31:20 still standing.
17:31:22 I wanted to report on the fact of that Temple Terrace
17:31:27 is supporting it, and Plant City will be discussing it
17:31:33 at their council meeting on Monday night, this coming

17:31:35 Monday.
17:31:39 And then the other thing I wanted to report was, I
17:31:43 know, Linda, you have been out of town and you missed
17:31:46 the community meetings, everyone miss it including the
17:31:49 staff, that I set up to discuss possible two-waying,
17:31:56 two different meetings, one was Seminole Heights and
17:31:58 Tampa Heights, two-waying Florida and Tampa and one
17:32:02 with basically West Tampa about Howard and Armenia.
17:32:07 The Seminole Heights meeting, there were about 40
17:32:11 people there from the community, three or four
17:32:14 different neighborhood associations, and they
17:32:16 unanimously wanted to pursue creating two-way streets.
17:32:21 Many of them went to the mayor's, what do you call it,
17:32:26 open house or whatever, community meeting that she had
17:32:28 this week, and expressed those to her, and she has
17:32:31 indicated that she will work with those, the
17:32:36 neighborhoods, the Seminole Heights neighborhood,
17:32:38 trying to look into this.
17:32:39 So that's where we are with that.
17:32:50 Those neighborhoods, I guess Tampa Heights, and I
17:32:53 guess Tampa Heights.
17:32:54 I just wanted you to know that your constituents

17:32:57 wanted to do this one and hopefully you will be
17:33:02 talking to them about it.
17:33:03 West Tampa was, surprise, surprise, there was no
17:33:08 consensus at their meeting, but it seemed that most
17:33:11 people didn't want to pursue it, but then since the
17:33:16 meeting they have been sending e-mails changing their
17:33:18 minds.
17:33:18 So I think I did what I could to listen to them and
17:33:23 we'll be hearing from them maybe but I don't think
17:33:25 there's any --
17:33:34 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: Mrs. Saul-Sena had a question or
17:33:35 comment.
17:33:36 I want to say in West Tampa you wouldn't expect a
17:33:38 consensus, right, Charlie?
17:33:39 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I want to say thank you on your
17:33:43 initiative for the EPC.
17:33:44 I want to thank you on your initiative with the
17:33:46 meetings for the two-way streets.
17:33:48 And I have a question.
17:33:49 Are we -- in Seminole Heights, how far south did the
17:33:55 conversation go?
17:33:59 >>MARY MULHERN: Where we are now, we need somebody to

17:34:01 do a conceptual plan for us.
17:34:03 So we don't even know.
17:34:05 I mean, we kind of talked about, well, maybe just
17:34:08 north of the interstate.
17:34:09 I don't know if that's even possible, or just isolate
17:34:13 that part.
17:34:14 But that was kind of a general, you know, more people
17:34:18 were willing to just do that.
17:34:20 But we can't do anything unless we have -- hire
17:34:24 someone to do a conceptual --
17:34:29 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: I received correspondence because
17:34:31 the only time we can talk is City Council.
17:34:33 I was wondering if would you consider everything
17:34:35 another special discussion meeting on the two-way
17:34:37 streets, inviting some of the urban people and see if
17:34:41 we can get a little further down the road.
17:34:42 >>MARY MULHERN: I'm going to propose having -- I
17:34:46 haven't determined yet whether to do a workshop, or
17:34:50 have a discussion at a council meeting, because
17:34:53 this -- two of these neighborhoods want to do this and
17:34:57 we need staff up there.
17:34:59 So and we also, you know, they wanted to have it at

17:35:04 night.
17:35:05 So that they can actually come.
17:35:07 So I haven't figured that out yet.
17:35:09 But I will definitely be asking to schedule something
17:35:15 for the public.
17:35:15 The other thing I forgot to mention, Michael Wolfolk
17:35:20 work, a transportation planner, you don't know if you
17:35:22 know him but he's brilliant, works all over the world,
17:35:28 he's working right now in Sarasota with the county, he
17:35:30 drove down here from Jacksonville where he lives.
17:35:34 He spent two whole days talking to our neighborhood
17:35:36 association, because, you know, he just gave that to
17:35:42 us, and has some hope perhaps that we might use his
17:35:46 services at some point in the future.
17:35:47 But he was brilliant.
17:35:49 And we can get somebody to pay for him to come to the
17:35:52 workshop, but he's already given up two whole days and
17:35:57 all his travel expenses and try to figure out.
17:36:02 >> Thanks for reports.
17:36:03 Anything else?
17:36:05 Mr. Caetano.
17:36:06 >>JOSEPH P. CAETANO: Yeah, that we adjourn.

17:36:12 >>LINDA SAUL-SENA: The chairman.
17:36:14 >>JOHN DINGFELDER: I don't have anything else.
17:36:18 Anybody in the audience wishes to speak?
17:36:20 I don't see anybody.
17:36:20 We are adjourned.
17:36:21 (Meeting adjourned at 5:36 p.m.)
17:37:49